[00:00] <RAOF> Howbidie!
[00:09] <doofy`> im confused, say i need to patch a package. I download the current source. Untar it, make the orig, dh_make it, edit the source code as necsarry and then debuild. What do I then do with the source changes? I upload the diff.gz to LP, but what about the actual source changes?
[00:10] <RAOF> doofy`: They're in the diff.gz.  But that's not actually what you want to do.
[00:11] <doofy`> so assuming i found a bug that needs fixed in LP what would i do?
[00:12] <RAOF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[00:12] <RAOF> There it is!
[00:13] <doofy`> thats just changing stuff in the decsription under debian/control
[00:13] <doofy`> is the same relevant for actual changes of source code?
[00:13] <RAOF> doofy`: Yes.  You generally want to use a patch system, but it's the same process.
[00:14] <doofy`> patch system?
[00:15] <RAOF> doofy`: Such as dpatch, quilt, or simple-patch-sys (for CDBS).
[00:15] <doofy`> okay thats what I assumed
[00:15] <doofy`> where do the patches get uploaded to?
[00:16] <RAOF> They're in the debdiff.
[00:16] <RAOF> (The patches end up in debian/patches, generally)
[00:16] <doofy`> they arent actually in the diff.gz though are they? I looked through it an saw nothing of that sort
[00:17] <slangasek> if they aren't, then something's gone wrong with your source package building
[00:18] <slangasek> that's where all changes to the source are supposed to be placed; the orig.tar.gz is meant to be unmodified from upstream - or at least, unchanging in the archive for any given upstream version
[00:20] <doofy`> I can get everything to work with no errors... I just don't really understand what I'm doing and how its relevant to actually going through and fixing a bug. The documentation seems a little lacking in that aspect
[00:20] <doofy`> i suppose if i keep working on it ill figure it out, just started today
[00:21] <geser> doofy`: if you want to patch an existing package: "apt-get source pkgname" to get an unpacked source directory, make your changes, add a new changelog entry (with dch -i), debuild -S to get a new source package, debdiff old.dsc new.dsc to get a debdiff
[00:23] <doofy`> then upload the debdiff to LP? that was MUCH easier to follow than the doc :) thank you
[00:24] <cyberix> I'll get some sleep now. I'll look at the package again after I wake up. Please advocate, unless you find something to complain about. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
[00:25] <cyberix> Oh, and good night for now
[00:38] <dcordero> hi
[00:56] <blueyed> Why does lintian complain "W: jedit: unknown-section universe/editors"?
[00:59] <pochu> blueyed: it should be "editors"
[01:02] <blueyed> pochu: thanks. But wasn't there something where you had to use "universe"?! I remember having to use section "universe/misc" or something similar for uploading to ppa.
[01:02] <pochu> blueyed: for a ppa, but not for the archive :)
[01:03] <pochu> blueyed: for ppa it's so it gets build-depends from universe or from whatever you specify in section
[01:03] <pochu> blueyed: but for the archive the component is handled via overrides AFAIK.
[01:03] <blueyed> pochu: I see.. thanks.
[01:07] <blueyed> But that may be "fixed" now for ppa.. IIRC I have not adjusted my latest virtualbox-ose-modules upload for ppa..
[01:24] <Fujitsu> blueyed: Correct, everything in PPA is now overridden to main.
[01:31] <fmarier> I've got a question regarding the "package removal policy" when the package has not yet been removed from Debian.
[01:32] <fmarier> I filed LP#175426 requesting the removal of "gengameng" in hardy since it is now superseded by flatzebra and has only ever been used by the burgerspace game.
[01:33] <fmarier> unfortunately, i haven't been able to request the removal from Debian since the new burgerspace hasn't made it into testing.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> Why does that stop you removing it from unstable?
[01:34] <Fujitsu> Won't it stick around in testing until there are no rdepends?
[01:34] <fmarier> Fujitsu: well, I'm not sure about that one and I'd rather not risk removing burgerspace entirely from Lenny...
[01:37] <fmarier> I was thinking about subscribing ubuntu-archive to the bug to try to get it removed from hardy before it gets sorted out in Debian
[01:39] <fmarier> according to LP#188292, it also fails to build from source, so I guess it wouldn't go into hardy anyways...
[02:06] <blueyed> If you know (and like) jEdit, please review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=jedit :)
[02:18] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:19] <ion_> Howdy-ho
[02:19] <bddebian> Hello ion_
[02:19] <ion_> What’s up?
[02:24] <bddebian> Watching the SuperBowl, doing year end close for work and looking at some packages.  You? :-)
[02:25] <ion_> Superbowl was baseball, right?
[02:25] <ion_> I’m just resting and watching some crappy TV show. :-)
[02:25] <bddebian> No superbowl is the "real" football ;-P
[02:26] <ion_> Ah, that. :-)
[02:29] <ion_> I don’t really know much about that sport, only that they guys are in clown suits and the game starts with one dude bending over, another sniffing his butt and the former throwing the ball to the latter.
[02:29] <bddebian> haha
[02:30] <RAOF> ...And that they stop the game for commercial breaks :P
[02:31] <bddebian> A LOT :(
[02:31] <RAOF> Or because someone dropped the ball.  Or because someone *caught* the ball, or... ;)
[02:31] <ion_> Well, you can always fast-forward over the commercial breaks. And in my case, the sports, too. ;-)
[02:32] <pwnguin> cant fast forward live tv
[02:33] <ion_> Put it on pause, let your DVR cache it for ½ hr, then come back and fast-forward over the ads. :-)
[02:33] <protonchris> can't watch it at church either
[02:33] <RAOF> I'm not sure a 1/2 hour buffer would be sufficient.
[02:34] <doofy`> how does everyone analyze diffs once they are posted to LP? Is there programs that allow you to compare the changes?
[02:36] <RAOF> I tend to use "less"
[02:36] <ion_> A diff is already in a nice form to analyze. :-)
[02:37] <ion_> If it’s an interdiff with -p0, then patch the diff with it and compare with interdiff -p1
[02:38] <doofy`> the file is huge in this case :o but i suppose it was for a version update of brasero
[02:38] <RAOF> You could filterdiff out anything that's not in debian/
[02:39] <doofy`> would you suggest getting a mentor... I'd love to contribute to ubuntu and i'd like to get working as soon as i can
[02:40] <RAOF> I didn't have a mentor, but I suppose it depends on how you work.  If you're happy to ask the whole channel questions you probably don't need a mentor.
[02:40] <doofy`> i'd prefer to ask the channel questions :) so that answers it
[02:41] <doofy`> RAOF, how long did it take you to actually be able to work on things dilligently?
[02:42] <RAOF> Not too long, actually.  I started out by finding bugs in packages I wanted to use, finding that upstream had a patch that fixed it, and uploading debdiffs to LP.
[02:43] <eddyMul> any advice to tell debuild to not package the emacs backup files (*~) ?
[02:43] <RAOF> eddyMul: Remove them before debuilding? :)
[02:44] <eddyMul> RAOF: I've been doing that. It gets boring after a while....   :p
[02:44] <doofy`> RAOF, finding the bugs through launchpad or what?
[02:44] <RAOF> doofy`: As in "oh, crap.  banshee appends a ", " to the end of all my files".
[02:45] <RAOF> doofy`: Finding things that don't work like you want them to in software that *you* use.
[02:45] <RAOF> Getting things that you care about to work is a lovely incentive :)
[02:45] <doofy`> then you would just look for upstream versions of that software that had the necesarry modifications or would you actually do the coding?
[02:46] <RAOF> The former; I'd look at the upstream bugzilla, and often someone else would have seen this and fixed it.
[02:46] <RAOF> Or I'd report it to the upstream bugzilla, and someone would make a patch which I could then integrate into the Ubuntu package.
[02:48] <doofy`> the people that are actually making the patches are the ones who work on specific projects usually, yes?
[02:48] <RAOF> Indeed.  And I've done a little work that way, too.
[02:49] <RAOF> (Banshee's cd-error-correction hookup code is mine, for example)
[02:50] <doofy`> neat
[02:51] <RAOF> It was pretty simple, actually, and did something that I wanted.
[02:51] <RAOF> Hurrah for open-source!
[02:52] <doofy`> im trying to figure out what im really interested in haha so i can figure out what to contribute to
[02:52] <RAOF> Yup.  Start by working out what you're interested in :)
[03:00] <doofy`> its amazing to me how all this stays organized
[03:01] <ion_> When everyone keeps scratching her own itch, the whole keeps improving. :-)
[03:01] <RAOF> The amazing power of theoretical capitalism :)
[03:02] <bddebian> doofy`: It's far from organized (at least where upstream development is concerned)
[03:03] <doofy`> in some ways i feel im better suited working on some upstream project
[03:03] <bddebian> You can certainly do both :-)
[03:03] <bddebian> Improve some upstreams build environment ;-)
[03:04] <doofy`> work on an upstream project and submit those patches for ubuntu :)
[03:25] <TheMuso> Would a MOTU be so kind as to give liblouis a look over? I'm the uploader, so one ack should be fine: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=liblouis
[03:25] <TheMuso> And in turn, I shall review packages, starting in a few minutes.
[03:26] <RAOF> TheMuso: I'll take a look.
[03:27] <TheMuso> RAOF: Thank you very much.
[03:28] <TheMuso> brb
[03:29] <RAOF> Why must licesing suck?
[03:31] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah I know. I even asked upstream about this, and they said its all GPL v2.
[03:32] <RAOF> Except for the exceptions and additional restriction, obviously.
[03:32] <RAOF> Unless they're actually just meant to clarify things which are already implicit in the GPL.
[03:33] <RAOF> (In which case it'd be nice for them to say that ;))
[03:36] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[03:37] <TheMuso> Well, Sun's lawyers have to check that its all ok, and the guy who made it work with autotools said the code is fine, but yeah I know, its something I'm not sure of
[03:37] <TheMuso> A second opinion would be nice of course.
[03:38] <RAOF> Is that what vcs-svn is meant to be used for?  I thought vcs-svn was for when the packaging was in svn?
[03:39] <TheMuso> I don't know.
[03:39] <TheMuso> Hrm maybe you're right.
[03:40] <RAOF> I think that https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-March/023332.html supports my understanding, but it's not direct.
[03:41] <TheMuso> Yeah, I'll pull it then.
[03:44] <TheMuso> RAOF: If you aren't comfortable with the licesning, I understand. I don't like it much, but I'm told its GPL2, which is why I felt ok uploading it for review.
[03:44] <TheMuso> c
[03:44] <RAOF> Ugh?
[03:44] <RAOF> :)
[03:46] <RAOF> TheMuso: If Sun thinks its valid GPL, then I'm happy enough with that.  You can at least say you investigated it to the best of your ability if the archive-admins reject it :)
[03:47] <TheMuso> Yeah I know
[03:47] <TheMuso> I'll wait for a second opinion however, if one is forthcoming.
[03:51] <firefly2442> why does pbuilder download packages? http://pastebin.ca/890856
[03:52] <ion_> To satisfy dependencies
[03:53] <firefly2442> so, it didn't create a .deb file, how do I know what to fix?
[03:54] <firefly2442> I'm looking at another package as an example and I'm confused as to what I need to change
[03:54] <imbrando1> sun is normaly pretty decient about lic concerns , if they say gplv2 i would trust it imho
[03:55] <firefly2442> are there any more detailed instructions for packaging besides those on the wiki?
[03:55] <vorian> firefly2442: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[03:55] <TheMuso> imbrando1: Yeah I know. However, you should take a look at it, as there is an "all rights reserved" clause in the license.
[03:57] <TheMuso> Hrm. ushare wasn't uploaded. Unless someone is doing that now, I'll do so.
[03:57] <RAOF> TheMuso: Any checks I can run on the binary?  I'm not really sure what it's meant to do :)
[03:57] <TheMuso> RAOF: What do you mean exactly? The binaries are only for testing the library.
[03:58] <RAOF> I'll just pass on the binary-testing, then.  You presumably know that they work :)
[03:58] <TheMuso> Yeah, I was running all of them to see if I could get docs outa them. Doing tests just to make sure they worked was part of it.
[03:58] <LucidFox> Yay, got my first package into Debian
[03:58] <TheMuso> LucidFox: Cool.
[03:59] <RAOF> Hm.  Thinking of which, I wonder if StevenK would like to close an ITP for me :)
[04:00] <LucidFox> StevenK is a DD?
[04:00] <RAOF> Yup.
[04:00] <imbrandon> LucidFox: correct ( as are alot of ubuntu devs )
[04:00] <imbrandon> LucidFox: but i wouldent let him hear you accuse him of being a DD :)
[04:00] <LucidFox> lol
[04:01] <RAOF> TheMuso: Thinking of which, want to have another Sydney MOTU dinner sometime in the next couple of weeks?
[04:02] <LucidFox> Well, I have another package on m.d.n needing sponsorship - I was wondering if he could help
[04:03] <imbrandon> LucidFox: your better off mailing the mentors ml, StevenK rarely sponsors packages he isnt involved with
[04:04] <imbrandon> but i cant speak for him, just givein you a heads up
[04:04] <LucidFox> Ah
[04:04] <ScottK> slangasek: lucas took care of the QA upload before I left for the Superbowl part I was at.  Thanks though.
[04:04] <TheMuso> RAOF: Sure. You know there was one recently?
[04:04] <TheMuso> I didn't attend, but there was oe.
[04:04] <imbrandon> ScottK: pats lost :(
[04:05] <ScottK> imbrandon: Aren't Boston and NYC pretty equidistant from KC?
[04:05]  * imbrandon as a temp pats fan :)
[04:05]  * ion_ misread that and thought imbrandon lost his pants.
[04:05] <imbrandon> s/as/was
[04:09] <Aloha> Please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sadms
[04:18] <LucidFox> Hmm. Does it make sense to advocate a REVU package if the same software, but packaged by a different person, is waiting in Debian's NEW?
[04:18] <LucidFox> (specifically talking about libgee)
[04:18] <RAOF> Not really, IMO.
[04:18] <RAOF> That's the second time that's happened recently, though.
[04:20] <TheMuso> RAOF: But if you want to ask the others if they're interested, I'd be happy to make the trip down to attend.
[04:20] <RAOF> We might want to suggest more strongly people submitting packages to revu file ITPs, too.
[04:20]  * minghua wonders if the Debian NEW package has an ITP.
[04:20] <RAOF> TheMuso: Cool.  I was in Perth for the last one, I now remember.
[04:20] <LucidFox> yup, it does
[04:21] <TheMuso> Where can one find out about how to submit an ITP? I intend to submit my package to Debian also.
[04:21] <minghua> www.debian.org/wnpp I think
[04:21] <TheMuso> And, if not a maintainer, should I use mentors to host it?
[04:21] <RAOF> I use emacs' reportbug, myself.
[04:21] <TheMuso> minghua: Thanks.
[04:21] <LucidFox> http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
[04:21] <TheMuso> LucidFox: Thanks.
[04:22] <minghua> Yeah, that's the correct link. :-P
[04:22] <LucidFox> slomo, perhaps you could look at the diff between your libgee and the one on REVU, and merge them once it passes NEW?
[04:23] <minghua> Emacs's reportbug was bad last time I knew it.
[04:24] <LucidFox> I don't use Emacs or reportbug, I file all bugs by mail
[04:26] <LucidFox> Does a Debian package need to pass NEW when moving from contrib to main?
[04:26] <minghua> No AFAIK.
[04:27] <minghua> You need a sourceful upload for contrib to main transition, unlike Ubuntu's main and universe.
[04:40] <ScottK> You also need FTP masters to take some action on over-rides too, I believe.
[04:40] <ScottK> or maybe that's just priority
[04:55] <slangasek> yeah, I think it does end up in NEW in Debian
[05:09] <minghua> Oh.  Sorry for the misinformation.
[05:31] <richbl> hello all... I'm interested in doing some dev work, but specifically interested in user-interface design/development. Can someone recommend a good mailing list to join, or some pointers on where to go/who to contact? Thanks.
[05:32] <RAOF> richbl: It sounds like you may be more interested in upstream development?  Most of the Ubuntu's interface comes straight from GNOME.
[05:34] <richbl> RAOF: yeah, I've been tracking GNOME dev, and just got on their MLs... is there any UI work done here?
[05:34] <RAOF> Although there certainly are Ubuntu-only projects; the installer (Ubiquity), displayconfig-gtk, those sort of things.
[05:34] <ScottK2> Obsolete library removal bug filed.  Horray!
[05:35] <richbl> RAOF: I'll take a look at those specifically. Is there a UI "lead" I should contact?
[05:35] <richbl> (for Ubuntu, that is)
[05:35] <RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.
[05:35] <RAOF> It's entirely possible that I just haven't been paying attention in the right places, though :)
[05:35] <superm1> richbl, if you are interested in improving the UI of ubiquity, pop in #ubuntu-installer and you can talk to evand and cjwatson
[05:35] <ScottK2> richbl: Do you have any interest in KDE?
[05:36] <superm1> richbl, although there was a share of usability that was discussed at UDS this last october
[05:36] <superm1> richbl, so there are pending changes
[05:36] <richbl> ScottK2: that's a good question... personally, I'm more familiar with Gnome and have more of a history there... but I'd be interested in at least following up with folk(s) on the KDE side of things
[05:37] <superm1> ScottK2, don't steal him!  he wanted to come to us first :)
[05:37] <richbl> What's the process--in general--for handling UI consistency between us (dev) and designers (them) :)
[05:38] <ScottK2> richbl: The reason why I ask is in Kubuntu we've got a no kidding U/I usability expert for KDE doing a fair amount of work with us and so there's actual studies that you can base work off of.
[05:38] <richbl> For a quick background... I'm originally a dev from Microsoft (uh... I hope I don't get beaten)... did some dev/UI work on Flight Simulator a while ago (long long ago, it was Word 1.0)
[05:38] <ScottK2> Back when Flight Simulator was cool.
[05:39] <ScottK2> BTW, I wrote my college thesis with Word 1.0
[05:39] <richbl> I was kinda' responsible for getting FS from char to Windows (at least a good portion of UI)
[05:40] <richbl> ScottK2: cool... I still have an easter egg lurking in Winword 6.0 (pre-Office, IIFC)
[05:41] <TheMuso> richbl: ooo nice.
[05:41] <TheMuso> richbl: Nice to see you embracing the open source movement.
[05:41] <ScottK2> I never used the pre-Office Word on Windows.  Only on Mac.
[05:41] <richbl> Good to know there's someone on KDE who does UI/consistency stuff... anyone on the Gnome side that does similar?
[05:42] <ScottK2> richbl: For KDE, there's some good linkage here: http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/2007-kde-usability-reports/
[05:42] <ScottK2> richbl: If that leads you to ideas, you can certainly join us on #kubuntu-devel.
[05:42] <richbl> TheMuso: yeah... I still have friends at MS these days, but my personal feeling is that the company just got too big... and it lost the "campus" feel...
[05:43] <TheMuso> richbl: For a start, GNOME has the GNOME interface guidelines, although thats not always looked upon favourably by Ubuntu devs.
[05:43] <superm1> i may be mistaken, but I thought mpt did usability for GTK stuff?
[05:43] <TheMuso> superm1: afaik he does.
[05:43] <richbl> ScottK2: thanks, I'll check it out...
[05:43] <superm1> yeah i remember he sat in on the installer usability session
[05:43] <superm1> he also did a usability test on launchpad with me at UDS.
[05:43] <TheMuso> superm1: same.
[05:44] <richbl> Very cool that folks do usability testing... didn't know that... very cool.
[05:44] <ScottK2> Yeah.  Of course he's an LP developer which means he's alsmost certainly unqualified for U/I design IMO.
[05:44] <richbl> what's LP dev?
[05:44] <superm1> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mpt
[05:44] <ScottK2> Launchpad developer
[05:45] <richbl> TheMuso: regarding the Gnome interface guidelines, any reason why they're not followed?
[05:45] <ScottK2> Launchpad is Canonical's distribution management system
[05:45] <richbl> Scott: gotcha... still getting my feet wet with tools
[05:45] <ScottK2> Ubuntu (no suprise) uses it.
[05:45] <ScottK2> Understand.
[05:45] <richbl> every FOSS project seems to have their own way ;)
[05:46] <ScottK2> Yes, well Launchpad isn't a FOSS project (just to be clear).
[05:46] <RAOF> Which is part of what Launchpad is meant to solve.
[05:47] <richbl> gotcha... I'll take a look and see... I think I've filed bugs through it... if that's the same tool for public bug filing...
[05:47] <RAOF> And is what's given as the reason it's *not* open-source (yet, apparently).
[05:48] <ScottK2> There are lots of reasons given, none of which make a lot of sense to me, but don't worry, I'm not going to do another 4 hour rant on LP should be Free.
[05:48] <RAOF> Awwww!
[05:49] <richbl> HA! I think I'll politely step around the issue for the moment...
[05:49] <ScottK2> No problem.
[05:50]  * ScottK2 wonders if it's a coincidence that LP is suddenly oopsing on me.
[05:50] <richbl> So... to sum... I have some actions to follow-up on the Kubuntu side (another IRC channel) ... anything I can do for follow-up on the Gnome side?
[05:50] <richbl> (pardon me if I've missed anything in the scroll)
[05:50] <superm1> richbl, i'd say you should try to talk to mpt if you get a chance
[05:51] <superm1> he can point you in the right direction
[05:51] <richbl> ah yes... got his page up now
[05:51] <richbl> thanks
[05:51] <superm1> best of luck
[05:52] <RAOF> Please polish my favourite GNOME :)
[05:52] <richbl> TheMuso, if you're still around... you had mentioned that the Gnome interface guide really doesn't seem to get followed... can you elaborate please? Is it a bad guide, or else?
[05:55] <ScottK2> RAOF: Are you familiar with the mesa library packages?
[05:56] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: Are you around?
[05:56] <RAOF> ScottK2: I've played with building nouveau's DRI?  I'm not particularly familiar with the packaging, though.
[05:56] <ScottK2> OK.  I'm trying to understand some transitions to figure out what to do with a merge.
[05:57] <ScottK2> I'm gonna ask anyway.  Maybe I'll get lucky
[05:57] <RAOF> Heh.
[05:57] <ScottK2> xlibmesa-gl-dev xlibmesa-gl xlibmesa-glu are Sarge -> Etch transitional packages, but they don't appear in Ubuntu until Edgy.
[05:59] <ScottK2> So I was hoping you'd know if we need to keep depends on those for Hardy or not.  It doesn't seem to me that it'd help Dapper - Hardy.
[05:59] <ScottK2> But I've really no idea.
[05:59] <RAOF> I don't know either, sorry.
[05:59] <ScottK2> OK.
[05:59] <ScottK2> Maybe someone else ...
[05:59] <RAOF> I've only really been playing around with mesa in Gutsy/Hardy.
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: I am.
[06:13] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: I noticed the other day that kompozer is in the top 20 packages not in Debian by popcon.
[06:14] <ScottK2> I think it you modified your package for Debian, you'd have an easy time getting sponsored.
[06:16] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: Yeah, the "be a good citizen and contribute back to Debian" thing has been smoldering on the to-do list for a long time.  However, since Debian doesn't have as stringent of deadlines to worry about, my personal life is super busy, and I want to make sure I do my research well enough to make sure I do it "the right way", I've been putting it off so far.
[06:17] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: However, last spring I did talk with asac and Kaze, and I think we were able to get most if not all non-dfsg stuff removed from it already, so that helps.
[06:17] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: While you're here, I don't suppose you follow the gstreamer-devel ML?  Slomo (I think) has just posted a tempo/bpm-finding plugin to it, a week ago or so.
[06:17] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: Debian is getting close to their first soft freeze for the next release, so it's be really good to do it sooner rather than later.
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: Can you provide me a date offhand?
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: I don't, although I may have to go check out the archives after today to look for that.  Any idea what stage it was at?
[06:20] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Checked in to cvs & pretty much ready to roll, I think.  I'll check my backlog.
[06:20] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: cool!
[06:20] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: Full freeze is sched in July, but things start getting frosty in March.
[06:21] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: All right - I have two days off in February, a week in March, and my hecticness-index will drop by about half in early June, so I'll see what I can do.
[06:22] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Yup.  Checked in to gst-plugins-bad cvs, as of the 27th.  As well as a commit to gstpitch, which may make gstreamer a one-stop shop for you :)
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> meanwhile, looking at Thunderbird, Wireshark, and Claws to see how I should do the transition for Dapper upgraders
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: Wow - and with that it could actually be scripted on a command line I would think, right?
[06:23] <RAOF> gst-launch is a fine tool, if you don't need the abilities that python-gstreamer gives you :)
[06:23] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: The Claws one is done properly.  I haven't looked at the rest.
[06:23] <ScottK2> Good night all.  I'm off to bed.
[06:26] <Aloha> ScottK, night
[06:39] <tonyyarusso> It seems odd to me that the transition packages have a Depends to pull in the new one, but nothing to actually get rid of the obsolete package other than a not in the description saying "this can be removed afterwards", but they all seem to do it the same way, so I guess I won't argue too much...
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> Policy check: Are we trying to have "Ubuntu MOTU Developers" listed as the maintainer of everything in universe?
[06:48] <StevenK> Not everything.
[06:48] <StevenK> Everything that has Ubuntu changes
[06:48] <minghua> tonyyarusso: If you have a better idea to handle transition packages, by all means let everyone know.
[06:49] <minghua> I think binary packages compiled from directly imported Debian packages also have "Maintainers" field changed these days?
[06:50] <tonyyarusso> minghua: I'm not sure of the inner workings of the different keywords (Replaces, Conflicts, etc.) - would any of them do something reasonable?  If not, how come nobody's implemented a keyword for this yet?  (it seems to come up a lot)
[06:51] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: So if it is a package that is NOT in Debian at all (yet), and thus has a 0ubuntuX version naming, would that fall into that category or not?
[06:52] <minghua> tonyyarusso: What function are you proposing a keyword for?  "This package makes package foo obsolete, so you can remove foo after you install this one"?
[06:52] <minghua> tonyyarusso: Not important and frequent enough to worth a keyword, IMHO.
[06:52] <tonyyarusso> minghua: yeah, such that it would automatically remove foo after a successful installation of the replacement.
[06:53] <tonyyarusso> minghua: fair enough - I don't really know how often it is; just seemed like someone might have tried it for elegance.
[06:53] <minghua> The "automatically installed" feature already implemented should solve part of this problem anyway.
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> Doh.  I'm going to have to submit one of the most trivial bug reports known to mankind.  I just noticed a typo in a Tracker applet notice.
[06:55] <LucidFox> "Conflicts: foo" means "This package will not install if foo is installed"
[06:55] <LucidFox> "Replaces: foo" means "foo will be automatically uninstalled prior to installing this"
[06:56] <RAOF> LucidFox: That's not true?  Replaces: means "dpkg will not complain when I overwrite files owned by that package"?
[06:56] <tonyyarusso> Replaces sounds close, but I'd think it would want to be a "wait and make sure this one installs okay first, then uninstall it" kind of thing.
[06:56] <LucidFox> RAOF, tonyyarusso> Makes sense.
[06:57] <minghua> LucidFox: Not true for Conflicts as well.
[06:57] <LucidFox> So replaces means "Ignore errors about existing files owned by foo, and uninstall foo after this package is installed"?
[06:58] <RAOF> Yes to the first, no to the second.  Both packages will be installed, but the files in both packages will now be owned by the most-recently-installed package.
[06:58] <minghua> You can have versioned Replaces, which makes moving files between packages possible.
[06:59] <LucidFox> RAOF> Ah.
[07:00] <LucidFox> but if both conflicts and replaces are present, the old package _will_ be uninstalled, right?
[07:00] <RAOF> Yes.
[07:07] <ScottK2> If two packages provide the same file (no matter the version) in the same namespace, then they either need to conflict or use update-alternatives.
[07:08] <soren> Or "Replaces"
[07:08] <soren> ScottK2: ^
[07:09] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: btw, where are you getting the data for this "top 20" thing?  I'm not sure where to look.
[07:10] <LucidFox> Are Qt4 packages under GPLv3+ allowed?
[07:10] <LucidFox> (I know that Qt3 is)
[07:10] <warp10> Good morning
[07:11] <LucidFox> Hello, warp10
[07:11] <soren> ScottK2: And update-alternatives doesn't fix the namespace issue on its own. Both packages need to provide a differently named file and update-alternatives provides the mechanism for one of them to obtain the "conflicting" name.
[07:11] <warp10> heya LucidFox!
[07:12] <soren> ScottK2: Maybe you're thinking of dpkg-divert?
[07:12] <tonyyarusso> Oh yeah, that was the other thing I needed to learn.  How to do changes as a debdiff instead of the whole thing, or however that works.
[07:12] <mikemorrison> hello all. i'm trying to get my program into ubuntu (multiverse perhaps?) but i'm not exactly sure on the procedure .. i've followed the instructions and even tried to upload it to revu(i don't think it worked). now i'm not sure what i'm supposed to do next. can anyone steer me in the right direction?
[07:13] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> Did you join the Ubuntu contributors team?
[07:14] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> If you did, ask a REVU admin to sync the keyring - after that, you will be able to upload to REVU
[07:16] <ScottK2> soren: Yes.  That's true.
[07:16] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: There was some wnpp discussion on (I think) debian-devel ML where it came up recently.
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> Hmm, I know normally debian/changelog has something like (LP: #180382) after each thing, but I have a bug that was marked as "Fix Released" by a previous version, but this version addresses a concern brought up later in a comment on the old bug.  Should I still reference the bug in the changelog?
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> ScottK2: presumably there's a fair bit lurking in packaging documentation as well?
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> doh
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> nvm me, I can't keep my different questions straight.  ty.
[07:17] <ScottK2> soren: I was thinking of alternatives as a way to work around the namespace collision is a softer way than conflicts.
[07:17] <soren> ScottK2: Indeed.
[07:18] <ScottK2> is/in
[07:18] <ScottK2> tonyyarusso: If you aren't fixing the bug that was filed, then I wouldn't mention the bug in the changelog.
[07:18] <mikemorrison> LucidFox: yes, i joined in december. i was able to upload to revu, but the package never showed up.
[07:19]  * ScottK2 really going to bed now.
[07:19] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> Did you upload the changes file?
[07:20] <LucidFox> And was it a source package that you were trying to upload?
[07:21] <mikemorrison> yeah it was a changes files, but it was binary only deb.
[07:21] <techno_freak> the diff file says "+    - zoom in/out support (xine-lib)." what is the package for the xine-lib?
[07:22] <Fujitsu> mikemorrison: It needs to be a _source.changes.
[07:24] <mikemorrison> well, i haven't released the source code for my program. so how do i get a binary only package uploaded? or is that not possible? i thought that is what multiverse was for...
[07:25] <ScottK2> As a rule it's for source packages that have limitations on distribution or modification that preclude Universe.
[07:26] <ScottK2> Additionally, I doubt many MOTUs are going to be interested in expending effort on getting binary only packages into the archive.
[07:26] <ScottK2> So even if it's legal, it's not easy.
[07:28]  * ScottK2 really really going to bed.  Good night again.
[07:28] <mikemorrison> ScottK2: thanks for the info.. gnight
[07:32] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> Why don't you release the source?
[07:34] <mikemorrison> among other reasons, i haven't decided on a license yet, and the code currently isn't really in a state that i wish to make available.
[07:35]  * tonyyarusso never likes that reason
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> Isn't that exactly why it would help to make it available?
[07:36] <RAOF> Also, why would it be good enough to be in the Ubuntu archives if the code isn't good enough to release?
[07:38] <mikemorrison> haha.. i certainly don't mean the code is bad or anything.. i just mean i don't have comments and the coding style isn't necessarily consistent throughout
[07:38] <minghua> Yeah, RAOF's seems to be the most important question to me.
[07:39]  * Fujitsu doesn't think we really want to distribute closed, never before heard of software to our poor users.
[07:39] <dholbach> good morning
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
[07:40] <warp10> heya dholbach
[07:40] <dholbach> hey Fujitsu
[07:40] <dholbach> heya warp10
[07:40] <dholbach> how's it going?
[07:40] <cyberix> Good morning.
[07:41] <dholbach> heya cyberix
[07:41] <Fujitsu> Not bad, dholbach. Yourself?
[07:41] <cyberix> I'm looking after first advocate for my package malbolge. I've fixed all broblems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
[07:41] <dholbach> very good :)
[07:42] <mikemorrison> Fujitsu: haha.. yeah i see your point. i've released my program for the maemo platform(nokia n800/n810) and after going through that procedure i just thought it would be neat to have in ubuntu as well.
[07:46] <cyberix> mikemorrison: You are right. Multiverse is for binary only packages.
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Not just for binary-only packages.
[07:46] <cyberix> Well
[07:46] <RAOF> cyberix: Not entirely.  Mplayer is (or was) in multiverse.
[07:47] <minghua> I would even bet on that multiverse contains more source-available packages than binary-only one.
[07:47] <cyberix> No, but "binary only packages" should go into Multiverse.
[07:47] <Aloha> who puts packages in multiverse? MOTU?
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Well, they shouldn't really go into multiverse, but that's the best place they can go within Ubuntu.
[07:48] <minghua> Aloha: Yes, MOTU are responsible for both universe and multiverse.
[07:48] <Aloha> minghua, thnx
[07:48] <cyberix> mikemorrison: The problem is that you need two MOTUs to advocate your package and MOTUs are not really willing to work on such packages as they do not appreciate them.
[07:49] <superm1> cyberix, i don't know that you can speak for everyone on that
[07:49] <cyberix> mikemorrison: So you need to have powerfull friends as MOTUs or get some powerfull friends from among MOTUs.
[07:49] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> Don't be ashamed of the code
[07:50] <cyberix> mikemorrison: On the other hand it will be a lot easier to add those comments to the source, or to just post the source with lacking comments.
[07:50] <LucidFox> You won't believe how many free software has _really_ bad code
[07:50] <LucidFox> s/many/much
[07:50] <cyberix> superm1: I'm talking about my own experience about trying to get a binary package into Ubuntu.
[07:50] <LucidFox> and yet its developers don't hesitate to open it - even if they can't prettify it, others will
[07:50] <superm1> cyberix, i believe it really depends on the type of binary package
[07:51] <superm1> take for example alsa-firmware
[07:51] <superm1> that will be multiverse destined
[07:51] <superm1> and we were able to push it in and out of revu within today
[07:51] <cyberix> Yes, if it seems important you may earn diplomacy points.
[07:51] <cyberix> I suppose this is not the case.
[07:52] <superm1> on the other hand packaging say a windows executable that is wrapped around a wine launcher, that's less likely to gain acceptance after the previous fiasco
[07:52] <cyberix> On the other hands I did manage to get two advocates for a packaged windows binary, while my current public domain, unix software doesn't seem to get any advocay.
[07:52] <superm1> ah that was you :)
[07:53] <minghua> Well, it's hard to appreciate binary-only packages, as there needs to be other incentives.  But a blanket statement of "MOTUs are not really willing to work on such packages as they do not appreciate them" is too much IMO.
[07:53] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> As for the license, we can help you choose one, depending on what you want others to be able to do with your code
[07:53]  * Fujitsu wasn't amused with pq.
[07:53] <LucidFox> it's not really that important what license you choose, as long as it's free - as the copyright holder, you can always relicense it
[07:53] <LucidFox> or double-license
[07:56] <cyberix> GPLv3 would be the most restrictive?
[07:56] <minghua> There was a thread on debian-devel about the highest popcon rank packages that are not in the archive, which is an interesting read.  It would be nice if we can view binary-only packages for Ubuntu in a similar way.
[07:57] <Fujitsu> minghua: Someone would have to go through and work out which multiverse packages are binary-only...
[07:57] <minghua> cyberix: I'd suggest you read the license or talk with someone who understands them before choosing one, instead of asking such general questions.
[07:58] <minghua> Fujitsu: Yeah.  What I really meant, though, it that we should have some policy of "no binary-only packages unless there is evidence of a significant user base".
[07:59] <dholbach> WOW, we've had some busy reviewers
[07:59] <Fujitsu> The official multiverse policy is anything that's distributable, I believe.
[07:59] <superm1> dholbach, you missed a fun revu day :)
[07:59]  * dholbach adds all the NEW packages to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage
[08:00] <minghua> Fujitsu: Right.  What about s/policy/recommendation/?
[08:01] <Fujitsu> minghua: We don't have one, I don't think.
[08:01] <minghua> It would be my personal criterion, regardless.  Not that I do much REVU review, of course.
[08:01] <mikemorrison> yeah i am going to spend some time reading up on the licenses ... i already know gpl2/3 fairly well but i'd like to read up on others before i make my decision.
[08:01] <superm1> TheMuso, don't forget to upload liblouis.  I didn't see it in NEW yet.
[08:04] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> Whichever license you pick, I'd recommend it to at least be GPL compatible. This rules out CDDL, Creative Commons, and the original BSD (revised BSD is fine).
[08:07] <mikemorrison> LucidFox: is that so contributors can incorporate gpl code into it?
[08:07] <mikemorrison> if any of you wanna try my program out, it's here: http://mike.yi.org/projects/quiver
[08:08] <LucidFox> mikemorrison> So that others can use your code in GPL projects
[08:11] <RAOF> Hm.  Before I finish this crazy multiarch hack, who here thinks that rewriting the pkgconfig files for some dependencies during the build process is too evil to upload?
[08:11] <Fujitsu> Modiying other packages' files? That sounds quite bad.
[08:12] <RAOF> But only in the build environment, and only to temporary copies.
[08:12] <RAOF> But it is indeed bad.
[08:13] <minghua> Still sounds VERY bad to me.
[08:13] <RAOF> Alternatively, ia32-libs-dev could exist and ship pkgconfig files.
[08:13] <RAOF> Hm.  Or, now that I think of it, I could do a wine and create the symlinks myself...
[08:14] <mok0> ScottK2: are you awake?
[08:14] <RAOF> I'd still need to copy pkgconfig files to some temporary build directory, but I wouldn't have to feed them through sed first.
[08:14] <RAOF> I'll give that a whirl.
[08:18] <Fujitsu> mok0: He went to bed some time ago.
[08:18] <mok0> Fujitsu: I thought he might have :-)
[08:43] <rulus> I'd like to have a review of gtkvd (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd) please. Thanks :)
[09:31] <TheMuso> superm1: I was hoping for a second opinion on the licesning.
[09:35] <DaveMorris> what happens to the packages which have been upload to revu, need fixing yet haven't been touched for months?
[09:36] <Fujitsu> DaveMorris: The sit around and rot.
[09:36] <Fujitsu> *They
[09:36] <Fujitsu> And generally clutter things.
[09:37] <DaveMorris> would it be wrong to encourage people to finish them off (ie not the people who have abandoned them), since there are always hope-fulls who ask "is there a program I can package?"
[09:41] <isaac> uhm, what distribution should I put in debian/changelog for uploads?
[09:41] <Fujitsu> isaac: hardy
[09:41] <isaac> ok, lintian complaints about that
[09:42] <Fujitsu> Please get an updated lintian from <yourrelease>-backports.
[09:42] <isaac> ok
[09:42] <isaac> but I am using hardy
[09:43] <isaac> shouldn't it have an up-to-date lintian?
[09:43] <Fujitsu> Hmm.
[09:44] <isaac> and the lintian in REVU complained too
[09:44] <slicer> I saw my package got uploaded from revu (yaaaay!!!). Is there another step that needs to be done before I can tell people to 'aptitude install mumble'?
[09:45] <DaveMorris> isaac: what package?
[09:48] <siretart> slicer: you need to find someone to look at your package and upload it to ubuntu. revu is just a platform to present your package to potential sponsors
[09:49] <slicer> siretart: I know :) I've been through revu, got two adovocations, and the last one said "uploading".
[09:49] <isaac> DaveMorris: unblock-signals
[09:50] <TheMuso> c
[09:50] <TheMuso> wrong tab
[10:13] <persia> superm1: REVU day isn't even half-over yet (although it will be in about 17 minutes).
[10:14] <persia> DaveMorris: Packages that haven't had a comment or upload in about 3 months get archived.  The rest sit and rot.  If you want one, feel free to poke the previous packager, and take over if they don't mind or don't respond.  Note that there will be a quiet period until the next release.
[10:15] <persia> slicer: Once a package has been uploaded to the NEW queue, it requires the attention of an archive-admin.  There aren't very many archive admins, and they are busy, so this can take quite a while.  If you know there is a bug that needs fixing, prep your changes to apply as soon as the package is accepted into the archive.
[10:16] <mok0> The number of packages in REVU is astonishing
[10:16] <persia> mok0: In total, or awaiting review?
[10:17] <mok0> persia: ... well, both ;-)
[10:17] <TheMuso> persia: I'd like your opinion on the licesning of liblouis, which is on REVU. RAOF gave it the ok, but I'm still not 100% sure, although upstream said it is fine.
[10:17] <mok0> persia: I counted 47 awaiting review some time ago
[10:17] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage looks really busy this time :)
[10:19] <persia> dholbach: Is it just you who updates that?  Perhaps we need to get people from each of the MOTU teams to write up a snippet.  (e.g. Science, Java, Python, Games, QA, REVU, etc.)
[10:19] <dholbach> persia: I announced it a couple of times, but up until now it was mostly me who edited it
[10:19] <persia> mok0: That's an improvement over 24 hours ago :)
[10:19] <dholbach> I'd appreciate more people adding their news items to it - the MOTU team has a lot of stories to tell
[10:20]  * persia plots and schemes to determine how to get more updates
[10:21] <slicer> persia: Ah, thanks. Is there somewhere I can track it's progress in the new queue?
[10:21] <persia> slicer: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
[10:22] <LucidFox> beat me to it :)
[10:22] <slicer> Thanks again :)
[10:22] <persia> LucidFox: OK.  You get the next three :)
[10:22]  * mok0 is impressed at persia's keyboarding skills...
[10:23] <mok0> ubotu, ! queue
[10:23] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about queue - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[10:23] <mok0> ubotu, ignorant as usual
[10:24] <LucidFox> !queue is The Ubuntu NEW queue can be found at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
[10:26] <mok0> ubotu, ! queue
[10:26] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about queue - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[10:26] <mok0> ubotu: Lucidfox just told you!
[10:28] <persia> mok0: It takes a while for the bot wranglers to moderate new knowledge.
[10:28] <mok0> persia: I know, just teasing him
[10:28] <LucidFox> heh
[10:42] <slytherin> persia: Do you have any update on w3c-dtd-xhtml issue?
[10:43] <persia> slytherin: No.  Did I say I was chasing that?  I thought you were uploading a fix to Ubuntu.
[10:44] <slytherin> persia: What I meant to ask was if man-di_ gave any update on this. Sorry for confusion. I think now i should fix it in Ubuntu itself.
[10:45] <persia> slytherin: Better to ping him directly, but you might want to check the status of the relevant Debian packages from packages.qa.debian.org first.
[10:47] <slytherin> persia: No change in the package. Also the bug has no comments added in past week. I will ping man-di_, but I will also ready the fix for Ubuntu
[10:47] <smarter> Hi everybody
[10:48] <slytherin> smarter: hi
[10:50] <smarter> I've updated my kepas(kde4 plasma applet) and extremetuxracer(3D course game) packages, could someone please review them? ;) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=extremetuxracer and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kepas thanks!
[10:50] <smarter> (I'm currently uploading the extremetuxracer package)
[10:52] <LucidFox> smarter> compat 6?
[10:52] <LucidFox> oh, debhelper 6 is out
[10:53] <geser> LucidFox: yes, and also already in hardy
[10:53] <LucidFox> yes, I see now :)
[10:55] <laga> KGJ|will_nen_eee: buy one
[10:55] <KGJ|will_nen_eee> hrhr
[11:08] <KGJ|will_nen_eee> laga: cant get one. out of stock. next next shipment in <
[11:08] <KGJ|will_nen_eee> >1 months
[11:09] <slytherin> What does this condition mean found in postinst, if [ ! -s /usr/share/sgml/html/entities/xhtml ]; then
[11:09] <laga> KGJ|will_nen_eee: local stores might have one. our promarkt does, iirc
[11:10] <persia> slytherin: -s means "exists and has size of more than 0 bytes",  ! means not.
[11:10] <slytherin> persia: thanks
[11:10] <persia> slytherin: man test will give you further information on [] tests
[11:21] <slytherin> Changes to postinst should show up in debdiff, right?
[11:22] <persia> slytherin: Yes.
[11:29] <Coper> Can someone review my new package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=console-freecell
[11:37] <TheMuso> Good night folks.
[11:38] <LucidFox> Coper> commented
[11:42] <Coper> LucidFox: okej, will check after work. :) is my mv from usr/bin to usr/games correct?
[11:43] <LucidFox> I assume so
[11:43] <LucidFox> oh, wait!
[11:43] <LucidFox> then debian/dirs _is_ needed
[11:43] <LucidFox> disregard that comment
[11:43] <persia> TheMuso: Good night.  I've left a comment on liblouis for you in the morning.  I'm not sure it's DFSG-free :(
[11:49] <rexbron> Can someone take a look at OpenLibraries and openFX? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openlibraries http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openfx
[11:53] <persia> vemon: I was just looking at whysynth on REVU, and noticed it didn't have the patches.  I thought upstream got back to you on that.
[11:56]  * Hobbsee waves
[12:05] <effie_jayx> Morning all
[12:05] <effie_jayx> hey Hobbsee
[12:06] <Hobbsee> hiya effie_jayx!
[12:06] <Hobbsee> fixed the world yet?
[12:06] <effie_jayx> heheheh I am into fixing something today :D I have time to kill
[12:14] <persia> effie_jayx: Have you already picked something out?
[12:14] <effie_jayx> per I am trying to find something by myselft
[12:15] <effie_jayx> persia,  I got some suggestions on a package update I tried months ago
[12:15] <persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Good luck.  If you want to work on the last remaining bug on the package you touched recently, I'll owe Hobbsee less :)
[12:15] <effie_jayx> persia,  the sound one?
[12:15] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:15] <persia> effie_jayx: I was thinking of the sound one, but if you've a pending update, it's better to look at that, because of the impending freeze.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> persia: you still owe bugfixes to all the bugs in the archive :)
[12:16] <effie_jayx> persia,  right...
[12:16] <persia> Hobbsee: Nah.  I only owe you fixes for MIDI and game sound.  The rest are available for anyone to help with.
[12:17] <Hobbsee> persia: that can cahgne :)
[12:21] <cyberixae> persia: Going to advocate malbolge?
[12:21] <cyberixae> persia: Maybe someone else would take a look, if it already had one advocate.
[12:21] <persia> cyberixae: No.  I don't think it is a service to malbolge users to have it packaged.  It simplifies things too much, and the frustration of not being able to use it once installed doesn't quite make up for that.
[12:22]  * Hobbsee wonders what it is
[12:22] <persia> cyberixae: On the other hand, the packaging looks fine.
[12:23] <cyberixae> Hobbsee: Interpreter for an esoteric research programming language.
[12:23] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:23] <persia> Hobbsee: a programming language designed to be difficult to use.
[12:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:23] <cyberixae> The point is not that it should be difficult to setup.
[12:23] <persia> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/malbolge-0801211640/malbolge-0.1.1/malbolge.txt is fun reading
[12:24] <cyberixae> I packaged it because I wanted to apt it to try out some programs written in malbolge.
[12:24] <cyberixae> And I think other people have done that too.
[12:24] <persia> cyberixae: Is the file wrong then?  I thought "So far, no Malbolge programs have been written.  Thus, we cannot give an example." was accurate.  If there are actual programs, it should be updated.
[12:25] <cyberixae> There are
[12:25] <cyberixae> But that is the original text file
[12:25] <cyberixae> I don't think it should be modified
[12:25] <Hobbsee> persia: that guy is sick.  and the file was written in 98
[12:25] <cyberixae> Just like research papers are not modified
[12:25] <persia> LucidFox: Did you come to a determination on libgee?  Should it be included, or pulled from Debian?
[12:25] <persia> Hobbsee: Yes.
[12:26]  * broonie notes that Ubuntu includes two INTERCAL implementations.
[12:26] <cyberixae> The file does mention that it has been written in 98
[12:26] <persia> cyberixae: In that case, I'd recommend adding a debian/README.Debian with updates.
[12:26] <Hobbsee> persia: if, God forbid, anyone wishes to write in that, then they deserve to go to the depths of hell.  actually, they wouldn't be running ubutnu anwyay
[12:26] <Hobbsee> i can see the case where an ubuntu user wants to use a crack compiler to run a crack-filled app, written in it, though
[12:27] <cyberixae> persia: What would README.Debian then contain?
[12:27] <persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps you'd like to review it then?
[12:27]  * Fujitsu wonders when libgtk2-malbolge will appear.
[12:27] <laga> Fujitsu: lmao
[12:28] <persia> cyberixae: Information about the current state, and documentation of the inaccuracies of malbolge.txt that have developed over the past 10 years.
[12:28] <Hobbsee> persia: i could just do a [23:22] <persia> cyberixae: On the other hand, the packaging looks fine. <ack>
[12:28] <cyberixae> Fujitsu: How about a malbolge interpreter written in malbolge?
[12:28] <cyberixae> :-P
[12:28] <persia> Hobbsee: If you did that, I'd have to add a rejection comment based on the philosophy, and I've already promised I wouldn't without provocation.
[12:28] <slytherin> Does anyone know why update-maintainer script adds<EMAIL_ADDRESS>when the package is in main. Shouldn't it be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:29] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:29] <persia> slytherin: Posting to ubuntu-devel is restricted, so it points to a list that can actually receive mail.
[12:29] <Hobbsee> persia: it's not that
[12:29] <LucidFox> persia> I'd discuss the libgee issue with slomo
[12:29] <Hobbsee> slytherin: see the audiences between u-d-d and u-d
[12:29] <Hobbsee> [23:22] <persia> cyberixae: On the other hand, the packaging looks fine.
[12:29] <LucidFox> since he uploaded the Debian package
[12:29] <persia> LucidFox: OK.  I'll ignore the package then.  It was just on my list as you'd indicated it needed attention before.
[12:29] <Hobbsee> # https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-December/000227.html
[12:29] <Hobbsee> # https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelModeration
[12:29] <effie_jayx> persia,  if there is a freeze ... I think there is no good reason for justifying that update
[12:30] <Hobbsee> that one
[12:30] <effie_jayx> I could do it for the sport
[12:30] <slytherin> persia: Hobbsee: Ok, thanks for info.
[12:30] <persia> effie_jayx: If there's no good reason to include it for hardy, no real point now.  Next cycle maybe.
[12:30] <effie_jayx> persia,  yes, definetely ... I am fechting for another bug... any suggestions?
[12:32] <persia> effie_jayx: There's about 800 patches out there that need review and packaging into debdiffs.  Be nice to evaluate them, and either remove the patch flag and leave a comment explaining why the patch doesn't fix the bug or wrap them in a debdiff and submit to the sponsors queue.
[12:32] <persia> effie_jayx: There's a couple links to useful searches for those from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/
[12:32] <slytherin> persia: Can you please check if this debdiff for w3c-dtd-xhtml looks fine? http://paste.ubuntu.com/4163/ Please note that package is in main.
[12:32] <effie_jayx> persia,  let me try some
[12:33] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: fix rbot :)
[12:33] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  rbot?
[12:33] <persia> slytherin: Looks relatively sane to me, but I'm not very familiar with that package, nor the rdepends.
[12:33] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: it's uninstallable due to ruby - there's a few others as well
[12:34] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: it needs ruby 1.8 to build, not 1.9, and debian's screwed with it's numbering.
[12:34] <slytherin> persia: I am just adding symlinks, so rdepends should not be affected.
[12:34] <Coper> LucidFox: was there no more comments on my package?
[12:34] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  bug link?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: no idea if tehre is one
[12:34] <persia> slytherin: I'll agree with *should*, but I'm not qualified to be sure :)
[12:34]  * Hobbsee just noticed it become uninstallable, and checked why
[12:35] <slytherin> persia: Ok. I will attach the debdiff and let core devels decide that.
[12:36] <cyberixae> README.Debian or README.debian?
[12:36] <persia> D
[12:38] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  is that the only reason?
[12:38] <LucidFox> Coper> No, I have no other objections
[12:38] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: i think so
[12:38]  * Hobbsee wonders where her chocolate went
[12:40] <slytherin> persia: Done. Now if it gets accepted within a day we can fix lucene2 by Wednesday.
[12:40] <persia> slytherin: Excellent.  I look forward to that.  Please update the lucene2 bug indicating that progress is underway.
[12:41] <slytherin> sure
[12:48] <geser> Hobbsee: LP ate it :)
[12:48] <Hobbsee> that's be right.
[12:49] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  Depends: ruby (>= 1.8), ruby (<< 1.9),
[12:50] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: yeah.  which did work, till debian decided to use strange numbering.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> they say why in their bug - but it's still odd.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> because nwo it doesn't correspond to the actual version of ruby
[12:53] <persia> shibata: poppler-data commented.  Please update: it'd be great to get this in hardy.
[12:53] <shibata> persia: thank you.
[12:55] <effie_jayx> persia,  I was looking at some bugs.. and some don't even have a patch... they just point to were the new upstream release is...
[12:56] <persia> effie_jayx: Sometimes the upstream bug has a patch, or a pointer to the commit that fixed the problem.  If it is labeled "patch", and you can't find a fix from the information provided, remove the "patch" information, and leave a comment explaining why.  If you aren't sure, feel free to share your research in this channel to get a second opinion.
[12:59] <effie_jayx> persia,  well I saw this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kipina/+bug/95842.. I am unsure of what I have to do... they is no patch for me to apply and test
[12:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95842 in kipina "kipina crashes on launch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:59] <persia> shibata: Just a few notes on kita2: that one looks a lot better.  Thanks for digging that up, and pushing it.
[13:00] <slytherin> persia: Should I log a tracker bug for 'Phase out sun-java5-* packages'. I received no reply to my mail on MOTU list.
[13:00] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  the fix would be to just depend on the 1.8 version only
[13:01] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: yeah, i suspect so
[13:01] <persia> slytherin: Sure.  Listing the affected packages would make sense.  Also, you might try poking doko to get another opinion.
[13:01] <Hobbsee> in which case, they just all need changing to it
[13:01] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  the guy must have a pretty good reason for having that there. but he is not responding
[13:02] <persia> effie_jayx: I don't see a patch there, and don't think it deserves the "patch" tag.  On the other hand, it might benefit from the "upgrade" tag, if kipina still needs to go to 0.2 (or newer), and it might be a good place for you to test your upgrade skills (although that's a feisty bug, so the package may have been updated, in which case the bug can be closed)
[13:02] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: what do you mean?
[13:03] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  the package maintainer in debian, he is not responding ... he has duplicate bugs and no reply
[13:03] <effie_jayx> persia,  it's like the fifth but I check and it is the same
[13:04] <doko> slytherin: no, please let them stay
[13:04] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: ah yes, right
[13:04] <cyberixae> persia: I cannot reach my GPG key right now. So, I have to get home to perform an uplaod. Does this -Ã> http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/README.Debian <- look ok?
[13:05] <persia> effie_jayx: That's frustrating.  On the other hand, triaging the list to find a good bug is a huge help for everyone.  I'm sure you'll find one soon.  Note that using the other "patch" search on the qa site will result in a completely different set of false positives.
[13:05] <slytherin> doko: Do you have any specific reason in mind?
[13:06] <doko> slytherin: did you test that all applications run using sun-java6 that did run with sun-java5?
[13:06] <persia> cyberixae: Looks good to me.  Note that often README.Debian contains a signature string at the bottom in a similar format to a changelog entry.
[13:07] <cyberixae> k
[13:07] <mok0> can someone help me take care of #188093 ?
[13:07] <slytherin> doko: No. That is the reason I will first work on getting those packages built and run with java6. And when we don't have any hard coded 'Build-Depends' or 'Depends' and java5 packages we can remove them.
[13:07] <mok0> bug 188093
[13:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188093 in xtide-data "[needs-sync] xtide-data-20070318-1 from sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188093
[13:08] <effie_jayx> persia,  I'll change that bug to update then
[13:09] <doko> slytherin: I disagree. it's not just the packages in the archive
[13:10] <persia> effie_jayx: May as well update it while you're at it.  FeatureFreeze is soon, and it's easier to do now than once the freeze hits.
[13:10] <effie_jayx> persia,  I can give it a shot and see
[13:11] <persia> effie_jayx: Good luck.  You've successfully found your own bug to fix :)
[13:11] <effie_jayx> jajjaajajaja
[13:11] <slytherin> doko: What about kaffe? Do you think it is redundant?
[13:31] <yamal> MOTUs, please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus - looking for a second advocate. thanks
[13:33] <isaac> looking for advocates for: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=unblock-signals
[13:46] <LucidFox> slomo_> persia wondered about the libgee package: there is your version in Debian's NEW, and there is another version on REVU
[13:46] <doko> slytherin: do you think that KDE is redundant because we have Gnome? do you want it blacklist for syncing from debian? do you want to regularily merge packages which b-d on kaffe?
[13:46] <slomo_> LucidFox: different... mine is the one from pkg-vala's git
[13:46] <slomo_> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-vala/libgee.git;a=summary
[13:47] <LucidFox> Do you think Ubuntu should wait until it passes and then sync, or accept the one on REVU?
[13:48] <slomo_> LucidFox: either wait or take the version from git
[13:48] <slomo_> otherwise conflicts will probably appear
[13:48] <slomo_> bbl
[13:48] <pochu> LucidFox: you can upload the version from NEW with a ~hardy1 suffix, and sync it once it's new'ed
[13:51] <DaveMorris> isaac: reviewed for you
[13:53] <isaac> DaveMorris: it's a native package
[13:53] <isaac> DaveMorris: I mean, I did it on purpose
[13:54] <DaveMorris> isaac: why can it only be used on Ubuntu?
[13:54] <shibata> persia: I uploaded poppler-data.　But I could not understand 4). Should I write "This package is in multiverse." somewhere?
[13:54] <isaac> DaveMorris: well, i definitely can be used wherever
[13:54] <isaac> DaveMorris: but the only use I see for it is the one I intended for
[13:54] <isaac> DaveMorris: we need to workaround a bug in gconf2
[13:54] <DaveMorris> which is?
[13:54] <isaac> DaveMorris: eBox, the server configuration web frontend
[13:55] <isaac> that we are trying to get in for Hardy
[13:55] <isaac> uses apache2 and gconf as configuration backend
[13:55] <isaac> there is a problem in gconf that is only trigerred when it's launched from apache2
[13:55] <isaac> because apache2 blocks some signals
[13:55] <isaac> and gconf doesn't unblock them
[13:55] <isaac> we have submitted a bug to gconf for that
[13:55] <isaac> but it's not likely it will be accepted soon enough for hardy
[13:55] <DaveMorris> well the other points need addressing, best to ask a motu about the native thing, I'd just prefer to see it as non native
[13:56] <DaveMorris> isaac: so this package is simply to be a work around for a bug fix?
[13:56] <isaac> DaveMorris: kind of, I mean
[13:56] <isaac> it's useful on its own
[13:57] <isaac> it just makes a wrapper around exec calls
[13:57] <isaac> so signals are unblocked when spawning new processes
[13:57] <isaac> * please add a watch file for the package <- if it's native there is no need for it :)
[13:59] <rexbron_> Does anyone have a better handle on how to do distro overides in PPAs? Mine get rejected due to the MD5 hashes not match. I belive that I have configured dput correctly
[13:59] <DaveMorris> yep, best bet is to fix the other issues, get it back up there and see what others think, although IMO if it's to fix a bug rather than bringing any benefit on it's own it shouldn't be there.  Instead I'd talk to the packager for gconf to have your bug fixes as a patch for hardy, whilst upstream add it
[13:59] <isaac> DaveMorris: done that already
[13:59] <isaac> DaveMorris: they say they want to wait for upstream
[14:00] <isaac> upstream is very unresponsive
[14:00] <Hobbsee> rexbron_: is the tarball version already in the ubuntu archive/
[14:00] <isaac> because gconf is not really maintained
[14:00] <isaac> I am fixing the rest of issues in the meantime
[14:00] <rexbron_> Hobbsee, by that you mean the main PPA archive, yes
[14:01] <Hobbsee> well, either
[14:01] <Hobbsee> rexbron_: you need to name it differently, usually
[14:01] <Hobbsee> or to go off the tarball that's in the ppa already
[14:02] <DaveMorris> well today is the last revu for hardy on new packages, so it might not get in this way either.
[14:02] <isaac> right
[14:03] <rexbron_> Hobbsee, IIRC, one of the features in the new LP:PPA service was an automatic override (via dput configurations)
[14:03] <Hobbsee> true
[14:04] <rexbron_> If I do a -sa upload, it rejects due to the .orig md5's matching
[14:05] <rexbron_> but a straight -S build rejects due to the md5s _not_ matching...
[14:05] <rexbron_> :|
[14:05] <fabo> Lutin: please, check twice before merging package from marillat. I think about mlt/mlt++/kdenlive.
[14:05] <fabo> Lutin: btw, I have uploaded mlt/mlt++ to Debian and kdenlive will follow.
[14:06] <rexbron_> Lutin, fabo, the current MLT svn has made some rather large architectural changes that break things (in kdenlive at least) and downstream apps need to migrate
[14:06] <rexbron_> that may have already happened in kdenlive though
[14:08] <fabo> rexbron_: atm we have mlt/mlt++ 0.2.4 working kdenlive 0.5. we'll need mlt/mlt++ 0.3.0 (new architecture) with kdenlive 0.6 when they'll be released.
[14:08] <rexbron_> fabo, cool
[14:09] <fabo> dan dennedy is near the end and jb must sync to the changes introduced
[14:09] <rexbron_> fabo, I am working on a package that needs MTL/MTL++. Is 0.2.x going to be maintained for a while after 0.3.0 is released?
[14:11] <fabo> I don't think 0.2.x will be well maintained, better ask dan/charles to confirm.
[14:13] <effie_jayx> if the url in debian/copyright is broken... what can one do?
[14:13] <rexbron_> Hobbsee, https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[14:14] <Hobbsee> rexbron_: ask in #launchpad
[14:14] <rexbron_> k
[14:18] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/rbot
[14:18] <effie_jayx> the depends
[14:19] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: what about it?
[14:20] <effie_jayx> no mention of a higher version of ruby
[14:20]  * effie_jayx things it must have been a typo
[14:21] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: that was in 06, though :)
[14:23] <effie_jayx> persia,  the url in debian/copyright does not work. the package was orphaned in debian and the launchpad bug has a comment that directs to a new sourceforge url ... can I use it?
[14:26] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am going to remove the depend... and see what happens
[14:26] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: cool
[14:29] <effie_jayx> this package uses patchsys-quilt.mk ... how different is it from  simple-patchsys.mk
[14:29]  * effie_jayx is still young with patches
[14:30] <RainCT> effie_jayx: if you are trying to create a new patch, I think it as:   quilt new; (modify the files) quilt add <modified files>; quilt pop;   or something like that
[14:30] <RainCT> *quilt new <patchname>, of course
[14:31] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  thanks
[14:33] <slytherin> effie_jayx: You may want to refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems for a start with quilt
[14:33] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  great
[14:40] <mruiz> hi all
[14:45] <effie_jayx> I have done it
[14:45] <effie_jayx> RainCT  slytherin,  good stuff
[14:59] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I can't find a but for rbot... shall I open one?  But packages in incoming.debian.org will dissapear...
[15:07] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I can only reproduce it on hardy
[15:09] <Hobbsee> yeah
[15:09] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  funny how in gutsy it has the same dependencies and it doesn't complain
[15:09] <Hobbsee> ruby has only been synced in hardy
[15:10] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee, and how does it affect?
[15:10] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: the ruby version only changed in hardy, from 1.9 to 4
[15:17] <geser> LucidFox: syncing from incoming.d.o works, but you need an archive admin to do it before it moves out
[15:23] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  this is from the debian BTS, lucas mentions a change in versioning for ruby.
[15:23] <effie_jayx> ruby switched to a versioning scheme which avoids confusing with the
[15:23] <effie_jayx> "real" ruby version. Please Depend on ruby1.8 explicitly if you need
[15:23] <effie_jayx> that specific version.
[15:24] <pochu> LucidFox: btw libgee has just been accepted in Debian, FYI.
[15:24] <effie_jayx> so my question is ... does that mean I have to use use then only ruby1.8
[15:26] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: i think so
[15:26] <Hobbsee> for those ones
[15:26] <paas> Hi Guys, anybody want to take a shot at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libtuxcap Thanks
[15:26] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  sorry If I have asked too much
[15:28] <LucidFox> pochu> awesome.
[15:31] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: I have a quick question when you get a chance... I finished making the python module for upstreamdev from bash alsa-info
[15:31] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:31] <effie_jayx> hey bddebian
[15:31] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: no problem
[15:32] <bddebian> Hello effie_jayx
[15:32] <pochu> howdy bddebian
[15:32] <bddebian> Hello pochu
[15:34] <effie_jayx> I have problems building a package... it is a patch
[15:35] <effie_jayx> No file to patch.  Skipping patch. 1 out of 1 hunk ignored, Patch remove_dependency.diff does not apply (enforce with -f)
[15:35] <effie_jayx> I was sure to add the file
[15:36] <LucidFox> So, what should I do with the needs-packaging bug for libgee? Change it to a sync request, or set it to invalid and file the sync request as a new bug?
[15:36] <Lutin> fabo: what's the problem with mlt{,++}/kdenlive ?
[15:37] <effie_jayx> if anyone can help me see the issue. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4169/
[15:38] <effie_jayx> my patch won't get applied to the package
[15:38] <effie_jayx> :S
[15:38] <slytherin> effie_jayx: Why are you creating a patch for debian/control?
[15:38] <fabo> Lutin: kdenlive contains useless b-d
[15:38] <fabo> ccache, libqt3-mt-dev
[15:38] <Lutin> fabo: ah. maybe. I didn't check them that much
[15:39] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  I shouldn't?
[15:39] <fabo> copyright incomplete
[15:40] <slytherin> effie_jayx: No. patches are to be created only for original source files. Rest of the changes you do i.e. everything in debian/ directory should be documented in debian/changelog
[15:40] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  perfect thanks ...
[15:40] <Lutin> fabo: really ?
[15:41] <fabo> Lutin: i didn't uploaded kdenlive to Debian, does it make sense to have kdenlive-data ?
[15:41] <fabo> Lutin: i'll be glad you'll sync next packages with Debian instead of debian-multimedia
[15:42] <Lutin> fabo: sure. I didn't think it was in debian already, I would have merged from debian otherwise
[15:43] <pochu> LucidFox: I'd rename it, but whatever you prefer is ok
[15:43] <Lutin> fabo: the -data is ~10Mo while the binary package is < 3, thought it would make sense to split them
[15:44] <fabo> Lutin: but kdenlive without -data is useless no ?
[15:44] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:45] <LucidFox> in any case, I think libgee on REVU should be archived
[15:45] <bddebian> Heya geser
[15:45] <Lutin> fabo: indeed
[15:45] <Lutin> that's why kdenlive depends on it
[15:48] <fabo> Lutin: ok, i'll do the same split. it'll be easier to keep common things
[15:49] <Lutin> fabo: btw, I'd like to know what I forgot in copyright :)
[15:50] <pochu> LucidFox: If you request a sync, I'll archive it.
[15:50] <fabo> Lutin: i'll send you the link when i'll put kdenlive in kde-extras repos
[15:51] <LucidFox> sync requested, bug #184540
[15:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184540 in ubuntu "Please sync libgee 0.1.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184540
[15:52] <Lutin> fabo: okay. thanks
[15:56] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[15:57] <jpatrick> hi sistpoty|work
[15:57] <sistpoty|work> hi jpatrick
[15:57] <Lutin> heya sistpoty|work
[15:57] <sistpoty|work> hi Lutin
[15:57]  * pochu waves at sistpoty|work
[15:57] <sistpoty|work> hi pochu
[15:57] <Coper> If there is no more comments to my package how do I then get it into ubuntu?
[15:57] <LucidFox> Coper> You will need to wait for two MOTUs to advocate it on REVU
[15:58] <LucidFox> And here comes the resolution to the great mystery of why no debian-multimedia.org packages use CDBS.
[15:59] <LucidFox> Marillat doesn't like it.
[15:59] <jdong> which ScottK is the real ScottK?
[16:00] <LucidFox> (Which didn't stop him from sponsoring my package that does use CDBS, although he ranted about that.)
[16:00] <pochu> jdong: all of them I believe :)
[16:00] <LucidFox> jdong> ScottK2 posted the most recently, I believe
[16:00] <jdong> LucidFox: ok, I'll try that one then :)
[16:00] <pochu> jdong: both have the ubuntu cloak
[16:00] <hellboy195> jdong: both but as they said ScottK2 was more active last time
[16:01] <pochu> But he probably gets hilighted without the 2
[16:01] <jdong> pochu: I needed to find the right one for a /query :)
[16:01] <pochu> jdong: oh, query both then :)
[16:01] <jdong> haha
[16:02] <jdong>  /query should take wildcards
[16:02] <pochu> heh
[16:02] <pochu> jdong: /join #ubuntu; /query * spam :)
[16:02] <jdong> pochu: yeah staffers might not be too happy about that use of wildcards :D
[16:02] <pochu> hehe
[16:03]  * jdong looks into what the heck is using 75% of his RAM
[16:03] <LucidFox> Speaking of debian-multimedia.org...
[16:03] <LucidFox> I'd like to get kplayer from there into Ubuntu, but it's a Qt4 application licensed under GPLv3+
[16:04] <LucidFox> is this allowed?
[16:04] <pochu> Isn't Qt4 GPL3?
[16:04] <jpatrick> pochu: not yet
[16:04] <LucidFox> well, Qt3 is at least since Ubuntu got 3.3.8v
[16:04] <LucidFox> * 3.3.8b
[16:05] <pochu> jpatrick: ah, but they plan it to be, right?
[16:05] <jpatrick> yep
[16:05] <mohbana_> hi guys what a good latex editor for gnome?
[16:05] <jpatrick> mohbana_: vim
[16:05] <LucidFox> lol
[16:06] <pochu> or gvim for gnome :)
[16:06] <LucidFox> but seriously? winefish
[16:06] <LucidFox> the previous version was Qt3, so I might request that synced until the Qt4 GPLv3 issues are sorted out...
[16:07] <ion_> gvim + vim-latexsuite
[16:07]  * LucidFox doesn't use vim. Emacs neither.
[16:08] <LucidFox> pochu, you promised to archive libgee on REVU once I file the sync request ;)
[16:09] <pochu> LucidFox: sure, did you file it?
[16:09] <LucidFox> I said it before... Bug #184540
[16:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184540 in ubuntu "Please sync libgee 0.1.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184540
[16:09] <slytherin> What is a way to ask for rebuild of a package for a specific arch?
[16:09] <pochu> LucidFox: oh, I missed it, sorry. Archiving now.
[16:09] <LucidFox> slytherin> Did it previously fail to build?
[16:09] <jdong> slytherin: assuming this is Hardy, poking an archive admin for a give-back
[16:10] <jdong> but make sure the circumstances are legit first :)
[16:10] <jdong> on another note, looks like I might get through the backports queue today :)
[16:10] <jdong> completely.
[16:10] <LucidFox> Yay!
[16:10] <rulus_> Can someone review gtkvd (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd)? I'd really like to get it in for Hardy.
[16:11] <slytherin> jdong: LucidFox: evolution-exchange has FTBFS for powerpc with following error which I believe should be nonexistent now - evolution-dev: Depends: evolution (= 2.21.5-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[16:12] <pochu> sistpoty|work: the new Comment/Reset locations in REVU packages are nice :)
[16:12] <LucidFox> then ask a buildd admin to restart the build process
[16:12] <sistpoty|work> pochu: thank RainCT, it's all from him ;)
[16:12] <LucidFox> pochu> indeed, very HIGish
[16:13] <pochu> RainCT: \o/
[16:13] <LucidFox> (Hobbsee, hint, hint)
[16:13] <Hobbsee> mmm?  wha?
[16:13] <pochu> LucidFox: archived, btw. with a nice comment ;)
[16:13] <slytherin> LucidFox: Where can I find buildd admins?
[16:13] <LucidFox> slytherin wants build for evolution-exchange on powerpc restarted
[16:13] <LucidFox> in hardy
[16:13] <jdong> slytherin: say " Hobbsee: prease give back evolution-exchange on ppc"
[16:13] <Hobbsee> mmmkay
[16:14] <jdong> :D
[16:14] <Hobbsee> done
[16:14] <slytherin> Hobbsee: thanks
[16:14] <Hobbsee> you're welcome
[16:14]  * jdong wonders what other shiny buttons Hobbsee's Launchpad has :D
[16:14] <jpatrick> Hobbsee took something else?
[16:15]  * Hobbsee has a few
[16:15]  * Hobbsee didn't actually have to *visit* LP to do that though
[16:16] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: buildd-admin, yeah
[16:16] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: "give-back" joke ;)
[16:16] <shibata> persia: I re-uploaded kita2, thnx.
[16:18] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: :P
[16:20] <dcordero> hi
[16:24] <LucidFox> How do I view the complete edit history for an Ubuntu Wiki page?
[16:25] <rulus> LucidFox: 'get info'
[16:26] <LucidFox> ah, I see... it's inaccurately named "Help" in the Russian interface :(
[16:27] <rulus> heh, that's not very clear indeed
[16:28] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  it installs
[16:28] <effie_jayx> :D
[16:28] <effie_jayx> but I can't test it...
[16:28]  * effie_jayx doesn't know anything about rbot or any other bots for IRC
[16:28] <Hobbsee> no?
[16:28] <Hobbsee> ahhhh
[16:29] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: stick a debdiff, assign the bug to me, i'll upload it and test it.
[16:29] <effie_jayx> I guess I could learn
[16:29]  * slytherin wonders why openoffice has FTBFS on powerpc. Decides to investigate tomorrow.
[16:29] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  great
[16:29] <Hobbsee> slytherin: you're just asking for a headache there.
[16:29] <ScottK2> mok0: I'm here now.
[16:29] <slytherin> Hobbsee: is there a better solution?
[16:29] <ScottK2> slytherin: OOO almost always FTBFS on ppc.  It's news when it doesn't.
[16:29] <Hobbsee> slytherin: ignoring ppc?  :)
[16:30] <slytherin> Hobbsee: I can't. I use it. :-)
[16:30] <mok0> Hi ScottK2, I've made another attempt at the patch, where the .po are not patched
[16:30] <ScottK2> slytherin: There's also guilt calc into fixing it since he's the OOO maintainer for Ubuntu
[16:30] <ScottK2> mok0: I saw the bug in my bugmail, but haven't had a chance to look at it.
[16:30] <ScottK2> I will
[16:31] <slytherin> Anyway, time to go home. See you all tomorrow. :-)
[16:31] <mok0> ScottK2: The assumption is that all .po files are not change wrt Debian
[16:32] <mok0> changed
[16:34] <LucidFox> dholbach> I have some questions about the report page
[16:35] <LucidFox> first, since what date is the progress being tracked?
[16:36] <dholbach> LucidFox: which date? which progress? :)
[16:37] <LucidFox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage
[16:37] <dholbach> LucidFox: oh that one... since last months 22nd
[16:37] <dholbach> that's the date where we move all collected information to the aggregated one
[16:38] <LucidFox> where's the aggregated one?
[16:38] <jdong> so what's the stance on interdiffs for new upstream version sponsorship requests? Required? EncourageD? Discouraged?
[16:38] <dholbach> general process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[16:38] <dholbach> aggregated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
[16:39] <LucidFox> thanks
[16:40] <LucidFox> second question: do new packages synced from Debian count in the NEW list?
[16:41] <dholbach> LucidFox: no, but if somebody likes to add them in a "New Stuff we got from Debian" list, that'd be nice
[16:42] <dholbach> it's OUR report, so whatever you want to add as news-worthy item is cool
[16:42] <Coper> How do I check out a package from Hardy if I run gutsy?
[16:43] <jdong> Coper: probably with prevu
[16:43] <jdong> or pbuilder
[16:43] <jdong> !prevu
[16:43] <ubotu> prevu is an automated, personal backporting utility. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu for more details
[16:44] <dcordero> if someone create a need-packaging but the package is available in debian. Is that a sync request?
[16:44] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  what's your launchpad ID
[16:44] <LucidFox> dcordero> I'd assume so
[16:45] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: hobbsee
[16:45] <vemon> jdong, isn't there an error in the source.list example?
[16:45] <dcordero> effie_jayx, although the package is not in ubuntu yet?
[16:46] <ScottK> dcordero: Check to make sure the package builds in Hardy first, but yes.
[16:46] <LucidFox> I should have discovered the reports page sooner, when there were more newsworthy updates :(
[16:46] <effie_jayx> dcordero,  which package?
[16:46] <vemon> jdong, it talks about backporting from feisty but example uses gutsy src repo
[16:46] <jdong> vemon: no, that is intended
[16:46] <jdong> vemon: you need a src repo from a "newer" version of Ubuntu
[16:46] <jdong> vemon: otherwise, there's nothing newer to backport
[16:46] <LucidFox> for example, I could write about the libgpod transition, or ask jdong and/or superm1 to write about the mpeg4ip transition...
[16:47] <alinon> is there an easy way to increase the amount of lines the mouse scroll wheel does when I use it?
[16:47] <vemon> jdong, then the explanation "To be able to backport packages from Feisty's repository." is wrong. unless it's intended to only apply for the lower bullet
[16:47] <dholbach> LucidFox: yeah
[16:48] <jdong> vemon: I will revise that
[16:48] <dcordero> effie_jayx, i dont know now. But i see that situation this afternoon and had this dude
[16:48] <effie_jayx> dcordero,  sorry I was not following...
[16:49] <vemon> jdong, nice tool btw. i was just wondering if such a tool exists :)
[16:49] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  done... I did my best .. hope it helps
[16:49] <vemon> few days back
[16:49] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: thanks
[16:49] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rbot/+bug/188959
[16:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188959 in rbot "rbot is uninstallable due to dependecy on "ruby" << 1.9" [Undecided,New]
[16:51] <Hobbsee> cool
[16:51]  * Hobbsee will look later
[16:51] <jdong> vemon: it's indeed a very convenient tool for doing backports for oneself; under the hood it's nothing but a wrapper over pbuilder so it's not "revolutionary" in any way, but certainly a lot easier to set up than a pbuilder :)
[16:53] <ScottK2> jdong: Have you looked at pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools?
[16:53] <vemon> jdong, and also, importantly, makes it "available" to the average user
[16:53]  * effie_jayx moves on to an upgrade
[16:53] <jdong> ScottK2: yeah, I have
[16:54] <ScottK2> jdong: Is prevu significantly easier than that?
[16:54] <jdong> ScottK2: it's a great improvement over how pbuilder used to have to be set up, but prevu is still easier than that
[16:54] <vemon> jdong, i was thinking for a second that a gui for that would be pretty cool... but if someone can't use the console they shouldn't try to backport stuff either :D
[16:54] <ScottK2> K
[16:54] <jdong> ScottK2: basically, apt-get install prevu, sudo prevu-init
[16:54] <jdong> ScottK2: then, prevu lp:firefox-3.0
[16:54] <jdong> ScottK2: apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, and voila
[16:54] <ScottK2> OK.  That is easier.
[16:54] <jdong> I think for the sole purpose of personal backporting, prevu still takes the cake for ease of use
[16:55] <ScottK2> Makes sense.
[17:01] <cyberix> persia: Uploaded.
[17:16] <cyberix> I'm looking after first advocate for my package malbolge. I've fixed all broblems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
[17:21] <Coper> jdong: can I download the latest source from hardy with prevu?
[17:22] <Coper> when I run apt-get source <package> I get the package from gusty and not hardy
[17:24] <ScottK2> Coper: Just change the deb-src lines in your sources.list to hardy
[17:25] <Coper> ahh okej.
[17:47] <effie_jayx> when doing an upgrade, Get an error saying  " This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory; (expected kipina_0.2.2.orig.tar.gz or kipina-0.2.2.orig)"
[17:47] <effie_jayx> I made sure I changed the source tar.gz to orig.tar.gz
[17:49] <ScottK> What's the name of your orig.tar.gz?
[17:49] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  found the mistake thanks
[17:50] <effie_jayx> it was a _ instead of a -
[17:50] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:54] <jdong> Coper: what scott said. Also, alternatively if you download the .deb for prevu from Hardy, you can just type "prevu lp:name_of_pkg" and prevu will automatically query Launchpad for the latest Hardy release
[17:55] <jdong> (yes, it is safe to grab the hardy .deb of prevu from packages.ubuntu.com; it's a python app)
[17:59] <effie_jayx> I havea question... the package fails to build. it is missing  checking for GCONF... configure: error: Package requirements (gconf-2.0) were not met, could it be a change in name of the package?
[18:01] <slomo_> persia, LucidFox: sooo... now you can simply sync libgee ;)
[18:02] <LucidFox> slomo_> yes, I've already filed a sync request
[18:03] <LucidFox> bug #184540
[18:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184540 in ubuntu "Please sync libgee 0.1.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184540
[18:03] <slomo_> LucidFox: great... why do you want/need it btw?
[18:04] <LucidFox> because I'm interested in Vala
[18:04] <LucidFox> currently writing an application in it
[18:04] <slomo_> LucidFox: what application? :)
[18:05] <LucidFox> a music manager for iriver players in UMS mode
[18:05] <LucidFox> (because I have one myself and didn't find any such program)
[18:06] <slomo_> LucidFox: what do you want it to do? banshee and rhythmbox should probably handle them (i personally use the shell for mine... or sometimes nautilus ;) )
[18:06] <LucidFox> rhythmbox has _very_ incomplete support for it
[18:07] <LucidFox> I want to be able to at least manage playlists and videos in addition to music
[18:09] <cyberix> Could someone please take a look on my package. It should be quite ok.
[18:11] <LucidFox> blueyed, what's the status of batik 1.7?
[18:15] <effie_jayx> any suggestions on this situation?  the package fails to build. it is missing  checking for GCONF... configure: error: Package requirements (gconf-2.0) were not met, could it be a change in name of the package?
[18:16] <cyberix> Is it always this hard to get a package in?
[18:17] <nxvl_work> dcordero: take another look on Bug #177443 i have added some feedback in there
[18:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177443 in photoprint "photoprint should recommend or require icc-profiles package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177443
[18:18] <cyberix> I've reserved most of the day for fixing potential problems that might remain in my package, but no-one really points out any.
[18:20] <dcordero> nxvl, i am waiting for debian maintainer http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=463826
[18:20] <ubotu> Debian bug 463826 in photoprint "Merge from ubuntu" [Normal,Open]
[18:20] <laga> cyberix: i suppose that people are busy with the upcoming feature freeze etc
[18:21] <cyberix> Aren't people supposed to advocate packages that doesn't have problems?
[18:22] <laga> cyberix: they'll only advocate if they're sure there are no problems
[18:23] <dcordero> nxvl_work, , i am waiting for debian maintainer http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=463826
[18:23] <ubotu> Debian bug 463826 in photoprint "Merge from ubuntu" [Normal,Open]
[18:23] <cyberix> I uploaded my package already during christmass, and fixed most bugs immediately on new years eve when they were pointed out. I did this to make sure the package would be fine in time for Hardy.
[18:24] <cyberix> I doubt it is really anyones fault, yet still it disturbs me a bit.
[18:24] <nxvl_work> dcordero: on that patch are also somethings missing
[18:25] <laga> cyberix: what's your package?
[18:25] <cyberix> malbolge
[18:25] <laga> just asking out of interest, i'm not a MOTU
[18:25] <cyberix> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
[18:25] <nxvl_work> dcordero: you need to explain on the changelog EVERY change yo make
[18:25] <laga> cyberix: did you see earlier discussion about malbolge?
[18:25] <nxvl_work> dcordero: and i see some changes that aren't on the changelog
[18:25] <cyberix> laga: Yes. I took part.
[18:26] <laga> ah
[18:26] <dcordero> nxvl, yes? what changes?
[18:26] <laga> that's all i can offer :)
[18:26] <nxvl_work> dcordero: and the 3th entry of your changelog is to inexact
[18:26] <nxvl_work> dcordero: it like if i say "i fix some bugs k thnx"
[18:27] <cyberix> laga: Iirc persia said the packaging should be ok now, but he didn't advocate earlier because he didn't know software had been written in malbolge.
[18:27] <dcordero> i dont understand u, i think that all my changes are on changelog :/
[18:27] <blueyed> LucidFox: re batik: copyright hell, as usual. I've lying a package around with a get-orig-source for the used fop-0_94, but this includes binary-only libs itself..
[18:27] <nxvl_work> dcordero: you need to write your changelog keeping in mind that other developers will look at the changelog to know in which version are the changes they want and it must be as clearest as posible
[18:28] <cyberix> laga: I suppose he might advocate now that I corrected him. But he is gone. :-(
[18:28] <blueyed> LucidFox: the debian package for 1.6 was already repacked, but then fop was "easier".
[18:28] <nxvl_work> dcordero: on the debian one they are, on the ubuntu they don't
[18:28] <sistpoty|work> cyberix: you mean there is software written in malbolge? (as in real software)?
[18:28] <LucidFox> :(
[18:28] <nxvl_work> dcordero: also the debian ones are not really clear
[18:28] <cyberix> sistpoty|work: hello world
[18:29] <dcordero> ok, i'll take a look later for the changelog of ubuntu
[18:29] <dcordero> thanks
[18:29] <cyberix> sistpoty|work: But persia was asking for proof that the interpreter works.
[18:29] <sistpoty|work> cyberix: phew... otherwise it'd be a reason for me to not advocate the package (if then s.o. would want to bring in an application written in malbolge *g*)
[18:29] <blueyed> LucidFox: copyright isn't nice lately everywhere in the packages I touch.. :/
[18:29] <shibata> effie_jayx: I think that you should install gconf2 package.
[18:29] <cyberix> sistpoty|work: :-D
[18:30] <sistpoty|work> cyberix: I'll be on my way home now, but I'll take a look once I'm at home
[18:30] <blueyed> btw: is the copyright ok for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=jedit (as far as I've done it)?
[18:30] <cyberix> sistpoty|work: Great. Thanks a lot. Please contact me when you're working it.
[18:30] <sistpoty|work> cyberix: sure, will do
[18:30]  * sistpoty|work heads home
[18:30] <sistpoty|work> cya later
[18:31] <blueyed> LucidFox: do you want to look into batik? I could give you the package I've done so far..
[18:32] <blueyed> LucidFox: another option might be to just fix the 1.6 package?!
[18:32] <LucidFox> no, I don't feel like it, sorry
[18:33] <blueyed> LucidFox: I can do the fixing - it's mainly just the build-depends.. I'll do that.. no need to upgrade from upstream, if Debian hasn't sorted that out yet..
[18:34] <effie_jayx> shibata,  the thing is in the depend line there is no reference to gconf2
[18:34] <geser> blueyed: slytherin looked into batik also and if it were only the build-depends then the package would be fixed already
[18:35] <geser> if I don't mix up things a bug in w3c-dtd-xhtml needs to be fixed first
[18:35] <blueyed> geser: I'm quite sure it is.. let me check again..
[18:37] <effie_jayx> shibata,  does it asume it is installed?
[18:38] <awen_> anybody has the link of all the steps to follow when making ubuntu-changes to a debian package?
[18:39] <blueyed> juliank: when did you discuss automated copyright extraction? I'm interested in the logs/outcome..
[18:39] <geser> blueyed: please check as that would kill another FTBFS and would allow an other package to build
[18:40] <blueyed> geser: already pbuilding
[18:40] <shibata> effie_jayx: sorry, I'm not sure about it. Your guess may be correct. What is it package?
[18:41] <effie_jayx> kipina
[18:41] <effie_jayx> shibata,  the package fails to build after an upgrade
[18:43] <shibata> effie_jayx: I will confirm from now. But don't expect me. I'm beginner for packaging.
[18:43] <effie_jayx> shibata,  so am I. two heads think better than one
[18:49] <awen_> just added myself to the contributers-team on launchpad... can anybody resync the keyring for revu?
[18:58] <jcastro> persia: was it you that told me Marek Slama is based out of Czech Republic?
[19:01] <blueyed> geser, LucidFox: yes, batik 1.6 requires e.g. JPEGEncodeParam, which is not yet implemented in icedtea. upstream's 1.7 works, but there's the source issue with the fop-0_94 used by it...
[19:02] <shibata> effie_jayx: I have no problem and build completed, 0.1.1-4 in pbuilder environment.
[19:02]  * blueyed wonders if it's ok for multiverse to not include the sources of used libs?
[19:03] <effie_jayx> shibata,  darn
[19:03] <cyberix> blueyed: I'm not sure I understand your question
[19:03] <mruiz> Hi all. I'm preparing a fake sync for mailping (to maintain the version relationship between Debian and Ubuntu). Debian version is 0.0.4-2 and the latest Ubuntu version is 0.0.4ubuntu5. What is a good solution for this case?
[19:04] <cyberix> blueyed: You plan to add a binary library to multiverse?
[19:04] <blueyed> cyberix: debian has repacked the batik 1.6 source, because a used lib was not included as source.. however, with 1.6, there's even no-source libs in the lib upstream.
[19:04] <blueyed> cyberix: there's a binary lib in a source package, used for building it.
[19:04] <geser> blueyed: it should be if the lib is redistributable and doesn't conflict with the license
[19:05] <cyberix> blueyed: I suppose that would fit in Multiverse.
[19:06] <blueyed> geser: so then using batik 1.7, without repacking the source would do it?
[19:06] <kdub>  is pbuilder or from scratch the recommended way to package things?
[19:06] <shibata> effie_jayx: According to pbuilder log, kipina does not need gconf2...
[19:06] <geser> blueyed: probably as batik is in multiverse
[19:07] <blueyed> yay! :)
[19:07] <effie_jayx> shibata, I m building an update
[19:07] <effie_jayx> shibata,  it must be in a new version
[19:08] <shibata> new version?
[19:09] <kdub> where can I find a list of apt categories? (the "Section:" in the debian/control)?
[19:09] <effie_jayx> shibata,  yes.. I am working on an upgrade. 0.2.2
[19:10] <blueyed> kdub: somewhere on www.debian.org/devel/ in the policy IIRC
[19:10] <effie_jayx> shibata,  ubuntu is in 0.1.4  and the package is orphan in debian
[19:10] <kdub> thanks blueyed
[19:10] <shibata> effie_jayx: oh, sorry... I will try new version.
[19:10] <geser> blueyed: does the batik license require that we also provide the source code?
[19:10] <effie_jayx> shibata,  I did the upgrade
[19:11] <blueyed> kdub: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[19:11] <effie_jayx> shibata,  there is no new version in ubuntu yet
[19:11] <effie_jayx> shibata,  no problem I shall check the mailing list
[19:11] <blueyed> geser: the source for batik is there, even the one for pdf-transcoder/fop, only the one for fop's libs is missing then.
[19:12] <blueyed> geser: for those: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/tags/fop-0_94/lib/
[19:12] <geser> blueyed: from a quick look at the license this shouldn't be a problem
[19:13] <geser> btw: is this a different fop as the packaged one?
[19:13] <blueyed> geser: don't ask me.. ;)
[19:14] <blueyed> geser: from the version numbers it seems to be the same.. therefor it's kinda strange that fop itself build-depends on batik, isn't it?
[19:16] <geser> yes, looks strange
[19:17] <geser> if you want to be sure about the batik source, ask an archive admin
[19:20] <mohbana_> hey guys is there anything similar to kile for gnome? i didnt like vim
[19:21] <cyberix> persia: You plan to advocate the package now that example programs exist and I added the readme file?
[19:22] <cyberix> persia: I wanted to ask you before you disappear again.
[19:22] <zul> mohbana_: gedit?
[19:22] <cyberix> persia: Sistpoty said he was going to look at it. I don't know yet, if he finds something to complain about.
[19:26] <jeromeg> jdong: hello
[19:26] <jeromeg> concerning the tracker backport
[19:26] <awen_> it is only a motu, that can do a keyring sync for revu, right?
[19:26] <shibata> effie_jayx: I could reproduce "Package requirements (gconf-2.0) were not met".
[19:27] <effie_jayx> shibata,  could it be the name
[19:27] <effie_jayx> ?
[19:27] <shibata> effie_jayx: name?
[19:27] <effie_jayx> is gconf-2.0 the nameof the package... I thought it was gconf2 or is it just me being silly
[19:27] <mohbana_> ~packaging
[19:28] <jeromeg> jdong: some people seem to need to reindex their database because 0.6.3 broke it
[19:28] <shibata> effie_jayx: I think that gconf-2.0 is not package name.
[19:28] <jeromeg> jdong: for me it went fine without reindexing
[19:29] <jdong>  jeromeg ok, that's good information to know
[19:29] <jdong> jeromeg: I think I'll approve it then the next time I process the queue
[19:29] <shibata> effie_jayx: "gconf-2.0" is module name. In configure.ac, there are "PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GCONF, gconf-2.0)".
[19:29] <jdong> which hopefully will be soon. I'm trying to be better about that :D
[19:29] <jeromeg> jdong: yep i've seem your good work this morning ! congrats !
[19:30] <jdong> :)
[19:30] <RainCT> Hey
[19:30] <shibata> effie_jayx: In my opinion, gconf2 is package which is provide gconf-2.0 module.
[19:30] <jeromeg> jdong: i'll try to do more testing when i find some time
[19:30] <jdong> jeromeg: that'd be awesome :)
[19:30] <jdong> now... to head off to the gym...
[19:30] <jeromeg> jdong: i've been running a backport of pidgin for more than a month without any problems
[19:31] <effie_jayx> shibata,  I see
[19:31]  * RainCT is happy that pochu likes his REVU changes :)
[19:32] <jdong> jeromeg: sounds good, I'll have to take a close look at it then
[19:32] <effie_jayx> shibata,  but it should complain then
[19:32] <jeromeg> jdong: lionel has set up a repo with it to ease testing
[19:32] <effie_jayx> shibata,  except if it is not installed
[19:44]  * RainCT is up for 1 review
[19:45] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: Are you available?
[19:46]  * jdong looks at above statement and brings up the idea of the REVU dating service again.
[19:47] <jdong> REVUharmony.com
[19:47] <jdong> See what it's like when attraction is ignited by debcompat-ibility
[19:47] <Jack_Sparrow> Like you could actually GET a date.. :)
[19:47] <jpatrick> jdong: hahaha
[19:48]  * jdong wouldn't be surprised if he gets a lawsuit in the mail about that tomorrow :D
[19:48] <Jack_Sparrow> I cant date you.. you are packages all wrong
[19:48] <Jack_Sparrow> packaged
[19:48] <Jack_Sparrow> sorry, feeling punchy today...
[19:48] <jdong> Jack_Sparrow: incompatible architectures? ;-)
[19:49] <jdong> hmm this could REALLY work
[19:49] <sistpoty> !jdong
 jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
[19:49] <jdong> encapsulating a dating service as a debian/control file
[19:49] <sistpoty> *g*
[19:51] <Jack_Sparrow>    what is the cli command to find the current ALSA module in use.. ?  That is the last thing I need to finish on the upstreamdev log-module for alsa-info
[19:55] <shibata> effie_jayx: What happens if add "libgconf2-dev" in control file?
[20:00] <blueyed> RainCT: do you want to review jedit? :)
[20:00] <sistpoty> cyberix: malbolge advocated
[20:01] <cyberix> \o/
[20:01] <RainCT> blueyed: looking :)
[20:01]  * cyberix wonders, if persia will show up once more today
[20:02] <cyberix> sistpoty: Thanky you.
[20:02] <cyberix> s/y//
[20:02] <sistpoty> cyberix: thanks for your work!
[20:03] <cyberix> I'm looking after _second_ advocate for my package malbolge. I've fixed all broblems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
[20:04] <blueyed> RainCT: I know about "Homepage" already.. :)
[20:10] <paas> RainCT, Hi thanks for reviewing my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libtuxcap. I've fixed the issues you had with it and uploaded a new version
[20:10] <awen_> the 'Homepage' field in debian/control, is that official... and from which standards-version?
[20:12] <RainCT> awen_: yes, 3.7.3
[20:13] <RainCT> (or perhaps 3.7.2.*, I'm not sure)
[20:13] <ScottK2> 3.7.3
[20:14] <awen_> thx... but stil wonders why dpkg-buildpackage still complains
[20:15] <RainCT> awen_: get a newer lintian version
[20:15] <blueyed> cyberix: advocated.
[20:15] <awen_> RainCT: i'm using the one in hardy... shouldn't that one be updated?
[20:15] <ScottK2> It is
[20:16] <cyberix> blueyed: Thanks!
[20:16] <cyberix> Now I can get to bed early
[20:16] <cyberix> :-D
[20:16] <RainCT> awen_: Ah, might be that they haven't added it to lintian yet.
[20:17] <blueyed> cyberix: you may want to look at the jedit package.. even if you cannot advocate it.. :p
[20:17] <cyberix> blueyed: It is written in malbolge?
[20:18] <cyberix> persia: Got the advocates. Thanks a lot for your help too.
[20:18] <awen_> RainCT: looks like it... just checked; am using the newest version avaible in hardy
[20:19] <juliank> RainCT, awen_: lintian has support for the Homepage field.
[20:19] <juliank> since 1.23.35
[20:19] <sistpoty> RainCT: did you send the mail to me instead of MC list on error?
[20:20] <RainCT> sistpoty: yes, already re-send it to MC (but with the wrong e-mail address, so that it's in the moderation queue -.-)
[20:20] <sistpoty> heh, k
[20:20] <awen_> juliank: i still get "dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Homepage' in input data in package's section of control info file" and lintian 1.23.42 is installed?
[20:20]  * RainCT really finds this annoying in GMail
[20:21] <RainCT> awen_: then it's dpkg-source who complains :)
[20:22] <blueyed> cyberix: no, jedit is written in java.
[20:22] <RainCT> blueyed: why is priority "extra"?
[20:22]  * RainCT thinks he will leave this sentence somewhere ready for copy-pasting :D
[20:22] <awen_> RainCT: ahh... i'll just ignore that then :)
[20:23] <blueyed> RainCT: because dh_make put it there..
[20:24] <RainCT> blueyed: and you let dh_make decide for your? :P
[20:24] <awen_> RainCT: do you have revu-powers (aka. is able to keysync)?
[20:24] <juliank> RainCT, awen_: Support for Homepage has been added to dpkg 1.14.16, but hardy has 1.14.15ubuntu1.
[20:24] <blueyed> RainCT: no, but paid no attention. Should be optional, right?
[20:25] <RainCT> awen_: no, but sistpoty and persia have
[20:25] <RainCT> juliank: ok, thanks
[20:25] <RainCT> blueyed: yes, probably
[20:26] <awen_> RainCT: okay... thx
[20:26] <RainCT> blueyed: unless your PC explodes when you install it :D
[20:28] <RainCT> blueyed: I don't like the short description (the "programmer's" part), but I'm not native English speaker so feel free to ignore me :P
[20:28] <blueyed> RainCT: taken from the project homepage/their .deb..
[20:29]  * sistpoty syncs keys on revu
[20:31] <RainCT> blueyed: Comment[ca]=Editeu fitxers de text   Comment[es]=Modifique archivos de texto       GenericName[ca]=Editor de text per a programadors          GenericName[es]=Editor de textos para programadores
[20:33] <RainCT> blueyed: looking at the files in debian/* it looks fine (beside the priority), but I encourage adding an .xpm for debian/menu :)
[20:36] <blueyed> RainCT: ok, I had an xpm, but thought that .png would be enough, when it complained that it's not 32x32.. ;) will resize and add one. Thanks for the translations.
[20:36] <blueyed> RainCT: what do you think about debian/copyright so far?
[20:37] <RainCT> blueyed: looks fine, but I'm not familiar with the machine readable syntax
[20:38] <cyberix> blueyed: Have to boot to hardy. I'll take a look.
[20:38] <RainCT> paas: why are there libavogadro0.install, libavogadro0-dev.install and avogadro.install if you don't mention those in debian/control?
[20:42] <paas> RainCT: oops, forgot to remove these, will do now
[20:46] <blueyed> For a debian menu file, do you have to specify the full icon path, or does it work as with desktop files?
[20:48] <awen_> thx for the sync sistpoty :)
[20:53] <awen_> now i can get the package reviewed, if anybody is up for that: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=imapsync
[20:55] <sistpoty> np awen_
[20:57] <awen_> worked together with the debian maintainer for this version, but sadly he ended up making a last minute change, that prevented the package to build in the buildd's... this is a fix to get the package building
[21:05] <paas> RainCT: ok, fixed that
[21:07] <RainCT> btw, OLPC's interface is called Sugar, or?
[21:07] <blueyed> yes
[21:07] <slangasek> that's the UI, yes
[21:09] <RainCT> and wasn't it going to be in Xubuntu?
[21:10] <ScottK> It's in the Hardy repos
[21:14] <RainCT> ScottK: do you know how it is called?
[21:15] <ScottK> Not exactly, but it's got sugar in the name(s) IIRC.
[21:16] <RainCT> I can only find sugar-datastore and sugar-presence-service.. :/
[21:16] <TheMuso> persia: Thanks, I feared as much.
[21:16] <superm1> perhaps the other pieces aren't in yet
[21:18] <RainCT> blueyed: ah, I forgot before: I prefer if debian/copyright links to the download page instead of the index of the home page, but this is a just a question of personal thing, so also feel free to disagree here
[21:18] <RainCT> (paas: ^ same for you)
[21:19] <ScottK> RainCT: There's a PPA for Gutsy.  I thought it was all in the repos for Hardy. Maybe not yet.
[21:20] <RainCT> ScottK: ah, I'll wait then. Thanks!
 effie_jayx: What happens if add "libgconf2-dev" in control file? he is not here but for the sport... an app shouldn't depend on dev libraries right?
[21:28] <yamal> MOTUs, please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus - looking for a second advocate. thanks
[21:31] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[21:33] <blueyed> RainCT: I think the download URL may change, therefore I think the main homepage is safer.
[21:33] <blueyed> Morning, TheMuso.
[21:33] <RainCT> paas: I'm still pbuilding it but until now it looks good :), just add two lines at the end of the description for libtuxcap-dev (check some other lib to use the same text), sorry for not telling you before
[21:33] <mok0> ScottK: Re: courier... Apart from the changelog stuff could you make use of the patch? I did not create it as a debdiff, but rather as an ordinary diff -urN
[21:34] <RainCT> blueyed: ah, good point
[21:42] <cyberix> blueyed: My Hardy is broken and I need to go and sleep soon
[21:42] <paas> RainCT: is it ok if I add  "This package contains the development files needed to link against the libtuxcap shared and static libraries." to the end of libtuxcap-dev?
[21:42] <blueyed> cyberix: for looking at jedit? No problem.. it was just an "idea" ;) Sleep well.
[21:42] <paas> RainCT: and is it ok if I add " This package provides a shared library needed by C++ programs linked with it." to the libtuxcap1 section?
[21:43] <cyberix> blueyed: Compiling on gutsy gives me various warnings, but then again it wasn't supposed to work on gutsy
[21:43] <sistpoty> slangasek: I'm just looking bug #188868, which is caused by sdl-image1.2 dlopen'ing libjpeg62.so.. what would be the right thing here? have sdl-image link against libjpeg62 so that the dependency will get picked up?
[21:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188868 in trigger "Missing dependency on libjpeg62" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188868
[21:43] <ScottK> mok0: I'm busy today so didn't have a chance to look further.
[21:44] <paas> RainCT: Should I also add the Homepage attribute to the control file?
[21:44] <mok0> ScottK: np
[21:45] <RainCT> paas: yes, add the Homepage. and I think the texts are also ok :)
[21:48] <slangasek> sistpoty: that would IMHO be the correct thing to do
[21:49] <sistpoty> slangasek: ok, thanks
[21:49] <slangasek> sistpoty: dlopen()ing public libs is a bad idea, because it means you're not actually building against the headers and bypassing any symbol versioning
[21:49] <slangasek> (that's two separate problems, fwiw :)
[21:50] <sistpoty> heh
[21:50] <sistpoty> as far as I've seen it, dlopen can be disabled (at least for libjpeg62) in sdl-image... I'll fidlle with this :)
[22:02] <paas> RainCT: I've uploaded a new version with the fixes :-)
[22:02] <blueyed> RainCT: me too :)
[22:03] <RainCT> great :)
[22:03] <RainCT> paas: I'll advocate once it finished building ;)
[22:17] <RainCT> paas: lintian had some complains about the .deb (see my comment on REVU), but this is now really the last thing I'll complain about :)
[22:19] <RainCT> well, good night all
[22:20] <pochu> argh, I just answered effie_jayx question and then received blueyed answer which said the same :)
[22:21] <blueyed> pochu: on the mentors list?
[22:23] <pochu> blueyed: yeah, you are fast ;)
[22:24] <effie_jayx> pochu and blueyed ,  thanks for the answer  I am going ahead and test
[22:26] <effie_jayx> Do I need to add that in the changelog?
[22:30] <pochu> effie_jayx: yes
[22:30] <pochu> effie_jayx: you should add everything you change
[22:30] <effie_jayx> pochu,  great
[22:35] <Aloha> Please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sadms
[22:36] <crimsun> sistpoty: tweaked & uploaded.
[22:36] <sistpoty> thanks crimsun
[22:37] <crimsun> (debian/control -> XSBC-Original-*, etc.)
[22:37] <sistpoty> crimsun: ah, right... I guess I'm too used to getting a build failure (which didn't happen this time *g*)
[22:38] <crimsun> hehe
[22:39] <effie_jayx> the build can't find scrollkeeper-config... :S
[22:40] <crimsun> is scrollkeeper in the build-depends?
[22:40] <paas> Hi, how do I fix this lintian error shlib-with-non-pic-code?
[22:41] <RAOF> paas: Ooh, that's a new one on me (but I only build on amd64, so that's a fatal error).  You probably need to fix the upstream build system.
[22:43] <paas> I've checked and it's build using -fPIC and I'm using gcc -shared instead of gcc Wl,-shared, any idea?
[22:43] <sistpoty> paas: any inline assmebly in the code?
[22:44] <rexbron> Hey everyone, I am looking for a review of Open Libraries and openFX: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openlibraries http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openfx
[22:46] <paas> sistpoty: yep, just grepped for asm and found  an asm("nop");
[22:47] <sistpoty> paas: hm... why would s.o. put a "nop" in there? *g*... I may be wrong, but I don't think only a nop will cause this error
[22:49] <paas> sistpoty: I'll remove the nop and try again, see what happens
[22:49] <emgent> heya
[22:49] <sistpoty> hi emgent
[22:49] <emgent> sistpoty, have you read security team meeting log ? :)
[22:50] <sistpoty> emgent: not yet... thanks for reminding me to do so
[22:50] <emgent> sistpoty, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest :)
[22:51] <paas> sistpoty: and what about this one: lintian gives me non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink on my shared library package
[22:51] <emgent> and join #ubuntu-hardened,is avaiable bot that post in real time security advisory (CVE,bugtraq etc..)
[22:51] <man-di_> is Daniel Hahler here on IRC?
[22:51] <crimsun> blueyed: <--
[22:52] <sistpoty> paas: the *.so should only go to the -dev package, not to the library package (you'll only need it to via -lsomelib which will pick up libsomelib.so)
[22:52] <crimsun> man-di_: sorry.  nick is blueyed.
[22:53] <man-di_> aah
[22:53] <pochu> How can I assing something to a $variable inside an if statement in a makefile? I've tried with a simple GST_PACKAGE_NAME = "foo" but it errors with "/bin/sh: GST_PACKAGE_NAME: not found"
[22:53] <man-di_> blueyed: sorry, but the patch you sent me (xmlgraphics-commons) is crap
[22:53] <geser> pochu: try removing the space around =
[22:54] <man-di_> blueyed: please see the comment in the bugreport for the reason
[22:54] <pochu> geser: trying, thanks
[22:54] <paas> sistpoty: ok, thanks, I'll fix it tomorrow, cheers
[22:54] <sistpoty> np
[22:55] <pochu> geser: woha, thank you :)
[23:00] <sistpoty> emgent: just read parts of the meeting... and of course the pentest wiki page... very nice and great idea!
[23:00] <emgent> :)
[23:00] <sistpoty> emgent: and big thanks again for hunting down the revu security issues!
[23:01] <blueyed> man-di_: looking
[23:03]  * sistpoty needs to go to bed now
[23:04] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone and cya tomorrow
[23:05] <blueyed> man-di_: but isn't this also what you've said in the tagged-pending comment? (which I've not read before)
[23:08] <persia> TheMuso: Given the annoyance of that license, I'd suggest filing an ITP, putting a candidate on mentors, and sending a request for license review to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>If you need it for hardy, ask one of the archive admins to see if they would accept it: regardless of my comments, you've a second ACK.
[23:09] <man-di_> blueyed: yeah, I was wrong...I requested rejection from NEW queue and forgot to fix the bug report
[23:09] <man-di_> blueyed: I found the problems too late
[23:10] <man-di_> blueyed: BTW: No need to write patches for bugs marked pending already, pending normally means the bug is already fixed and not yet uploaded
[23:10] <blueyed> man-di_: yes, I see. I've not seen this when submitting it using the submittodebian script.
[23:11] <blueyed> man-di_: I'll try using icedtea-java7 then.
[23:11] <man-di_> blueyed: scripts are evil *g*
[23:12] <blueyed> man-di_: btw, I've also looked into the batik package, which only builds with upstream's 1.7 with icedtea. Have you looked into this (I've seen reports about it)?
[23:13] <man-di_> blueyed: Vincent works on it
[23:13] <blueyed> man-di_: fop-0_94 contains a libs directory now itself, without source - but I've been told that it would be ok for Ubuntu's multiverse.
[23:13] <man-di_> (if you mean batik)
[23:13] <blueyed> yes
[23:14] <man-di_> blueyed: and? (fop)
[23:15] <blueyed> man-di_: currently batik's source is repacked to include the fop source, but doing so now pulls in some binary-only libs (for fop).
[23:15] <blueyed> I have a get-orig-source for that, I've you're interested
[23:15] <blueyed> s/I've/if/
[23:16] <man-di_> blueyed: send it to Vincent if its for batik
[23:16] <TheMuso> persia: Right. I've let upstream know, and I'm waiting for a response, after I gave them a link to the DFSG.
[23:16] <TheMuso> Its not high priority though, so I'm not pushing hard on it.
[23:17] <blueyed> man-di_: ok, thanks again.
[23:19] <blueyed> man-di_: I've came to xmlgraphics-commons through batik. I was wondering why batik depends on/used fop, and fop itself build-depends on batik. Seems strange.
[23:21] <man-di_> blueyed: normal in Java country
[23:24] <pochu> Anyone has a clue why the printf will print "" ? GST_PACKAGE_NAME shouldn't be empty
[23:24] <pochu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/4180/plain/
[23:25] <crimsun> Jack_Sparrow: were your questions for alsa-info answered?
[23:26] <Jack_Sparrow> Hey...
[23:27] <blueyed> pochu: tried without the parentheses? or with curly braces?
[23:28] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: I got the log-module done...   only one question...  What is the cli command for  ALSA Module in Use ?
[23:28] <blueyed> pochu: currently it's a subshell invocation, isn't it?
[23:28] <pochu> blueyed: it's in a makefile target
[23:28] <pochu> blueyed: I haven't tried that, let me see
[23:29] <pochu> blueyed: without parentheses didn't work, still "". What are curly braces?
[23:30] <crimsun> Jack_Sparrow: do you mean the driver or all the kernel modules?
[23:30] <pochu> blueyed: when running the makefile, the code is shown as this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4181/plain/
[23:31] <blueyed> pochu: use $${VAR}
[23:31] <blueyed> man-di_: well, using icedtea results in the same/broken .jar..
[23:31] <blueyed> man-di_: at least it was broken like that before in Ubuntu's archived (I've only did a merge).. will file a bug about it.
[23:31] <man-di_> blueyed: yes, the needed classes are in not in icetea
[23:31] <crimsun> Jack_Sparrow: for the former: awk '{print $2}' /proc/asound/modules
[23:32] <crimsun> Jack_Sparrow: for the latter: lsmod|awk '/^snd/ {print $1}'
[23:32] <blueyed> man-di_: too bad that the build does not fail then.
[23:32] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: There was one catagory in your output I did not have yet
[23:32] <man-di_> blueyed: write a patch
[23:32] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: Thanks..
[23:32] <man-di_> blueyed: should be pretty trivial
[23:32] <blueyed> man-di_: to make the build fail? how would you attack it?
[23:33] <man-di_> always compile the tiff stuff, not do this conditionally
[23:37] <jwendell> pochu, around?
[23:38] <Flare183> wow
[23:39] <pochu> jwendell: yes, sir :)
[23:39] <jwendell> pochu, Hi
[23:39] <jwendell> pochu, I was thinking if you would want to provide a debdiff for bug #188033
[23:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188033 in tsclient "tsclient crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188033
[23:40]  * pochu waits for launchpad to load the page...
[23:41]  * pochu starts to think whether his wifi disconnected or launchpad is down
[23:41] <pochu> !ping
[23:41] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[23:41] <pochu> launchpad.net could not be found. Please check the name and try again.
[23:41] <pochu> Is it just me?
[23:41] <jwendell> yes
[23:42] <jwendell> hehe
[23:42] <pochu> Alright, it worked now
[23:42] <pochu> jwendell: I can create a debdiff, but I won't be able to test it other than building the package...
[23:43] <jwendell> pochu, yes, this is what I mean
[23:43] <jwendell> pochu, I just wanted this fix soon in hardy
[23:43] <jwendell> pochu, and your name comes first in my mind ;)
[23:44] <pochu> jwendell: you need to learn how to make debdiffs, it's quite easy ;)
[23:44] <jwendell> pochu, I already know how to do this
[23:44] <pochu> jwendell: I'll try to make one later, but I'm quite busy with gstreamer stuff so I can't promise it
[23:44] <pochu> jwendell: oh, alright :)
[23:45] <jwendell> pochu, I just don't have the time to fix upstream and handle downstream
[23:45] <pochu> jwendell: that's understandable
[23:45] <jwendell> pochu, don't worry, let's just assing it to some right team and ping seb128 tomorrow
[23:45] <pochu> jwendell: I'll take care of it.
[23:46] <jwendell> pochu, ok then, thanks
[23:46]  * pochu is still fighting this makefile...
[23:47] <jwendell> pochu, thanks, see you tomorrow
[23:48] <geser> pochu: who leads? you or the Makefile?
[23:50] <pochu> geser: the makefile atm :/
[23:51] <pochu> ah! Got it!
[23:51]  * pochu WINS! :-)
[23:51] <blueyed> man-di_: well, I would have to hack the build.xml file to set internal-codecs.eff.disabled to false always.. but that feels dirty to me.. ;)
[23:52] <blueyed> man-di_: btw debian/watch: opts=dversionmangle=s/\.dfsg(\.\d+)?$ (the .NUMBER is optional really - at least currently)
[23:52] <pochu> I ended using an ifeq at the beginning of the makefile, instead of an if inside a target. It seems like inside the target the variable wasn't assigned the correct value. Either that or I messed it entirely
[23:55] <blueyed> pochu: have you tried $${var}?
[23:56] <blueyed> ..because this works in debian/rules: [ "${VERSION}" = "$${version}" ]
[23:56] <blueyed> the first one is a makefile var, the latter being set in the subshell call
[23:57] <pochu> blueyed: I haven't, but I don't think it would have solved it, as there was an else statement which should have assigned a value to the variable. And it was still empty
[23:58] <pochu> blueyed: hmm, do you mean in the if [ foo = bar ], or in GST_PACKAGE_NAME="bar" ?
[23:58] <blueyed> ..well "empty", because you've not called it properly, I think.
[23:59] <blueyed> foo="bar"; echo $${foo} should work
[23:59] <pochu> ah