[11:46] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I'm currently triaging bugs and IIRC there was a tag to be set when a bug report really identified a regression due to an update/merge right?
[11:46] <rbasak> cpaelzer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags#Regression_specific
[11:47] <rbasak> cpaelzer: but that doesn't really apply to Xenial I don't think.
[11:47] <rbasak> (during development)
[11:47] <cpaelzer> it is a regression that occured precise->trusty
[11:47] <rbasak> Ah
[11:47] <rbasak> Then regression-release
[11:47] <rbasak> Oh, and it would apply to Xenial it seems.
[11:47] <cpaelzer> rbasak: that link you send has internal server error atm -for moe
[11:48] <rbasak> regression-release is "A bug in a release that was not present in a previous release. Should be used together with a separate tag for the release the regression was found in. This also applies to a development release where an update introduces a regression prior to its official release."
[11:48] <rbasak> There are a few others too.
[11:48] <rbasak> So for you "regression-release trusty"
[11:48] <cpaelzer> thanks
[11:48] <cpaelzer> I'll refresh that page later and hope I get to see the content on that link


 And I can't find the launcher - jeez I really am getting fed up with it.
[07:47] <diplo> Morning all
[07:48] <TOShrun> great - unity --replace hasn't fixed it. better log out and back in again. *&%(Y&*&&*^*(Y
[07:49] <popey> its not unity --replace
[07:49] <popey> it's unity --reset
[07:50] <popey> AlanBell: tell him
[07:50] <popey> 08:49:54 < popey> its not unity --replace
[07:50] <popey> 08:49:57 < popey> it's unity --reset
[07:50] <popey> 08:50:00 < popey> AlanBell: tell him
[07:50] <popey> and it's unlikely it was unity which changed the resolution
[07:50] <TOShrun> gah - it shouldn't happen
[07:50] <popey> possibly compiz, but also unlikely
[07:50] <TOShrun> Something broke.
[07:50] <popey> what sequence of events led to that?
[07:51] <popey> plugging external monitor in?
[07:51] <TOShrun> I moved a window from one screen to the other
[07:51] <popey> what video card?
[07:51] <TOShrun> internal icore3
[07:51] <TOShrun> laptop model
[07:56] <popey> got your ~/.xsession-errors and/or /var/log/Xorg.0* handy?
[07:57] <TOShrun> hang on a mo.
[07:59] <TOShrun> I have popey. Where would you like them?
[08:01] <popey> pastebin or something?
[08:01] <TOShrun> OK hang on.
[08:02]  * TOShrun installs pastebinit
[08:04] <TOShrun> Xorg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/988534/
[08:04] <TOShrun> xsession http://paste.ubuntu.com/988535/
[08:06] <ali1234> yep, it's definitely messed up
[08:06] <TOShrun> lol
[08:26] <oimon> wha's the shortcut to lock the screen in the newest ubuntu?
[08:28] <TOShrun> Can I completely separate two monitors in Unity - so that when I move around my 4 workspaces on one screen it doesn't move around on the other monitor at the same time?
[08:28] <Azelphur> oimon: is it not ctrl+alt+L?
[08:28] <Azelphur> TOShrun: yes, what GPU do you have?
[08:28] <oimon> Azelphur, yes, it is thanks
[08:28] <TOShrun> just a intel internal Core i3 jobby
[08:29] <oimon> (took a long time to happen, but it did in the end)
[08:29] <TOShrun> on my laptop
[08:29] <Azelphur> TOShrun: ah, not sure how to do it on Intel, you can do it in xorg.conf if there are no GUI options, you are looking for separate X screens though
[08:29] <Azelphur> separate X screens are totally separate, you can't even drag windows between them
[08:30] <ali1234> separate workspaces like you want are (would be) part of compiz
[08:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: lies? compiz doesn't support xinerama workspaces
[08:31] <TOShrun> I tried what seemed like the right sounding setting yesterday but it didn't seem to have any effect.
[08:31] <ali1234> xinerama is irrelevant
[08:31] <ali1234> workspaces are provided by the window manager
[08:31] <ali1234> compiz can't do what you want, but it is because compiz sucks
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
[08:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: afaik it needs input redirection :P
[08:32] <ali1234> gnome shell is a little bit closer like you want... you only get workspaces on the primary monitor and all the others effectively have 1 workspace that never changes
[08:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: rofl that sounds terrible
[08:32] <ali1234> yes, it is
[08:32] <ali1234> however, it is closer to what some people want than what compiz does
[08:32] <TOShrun> hmm. ok thanks for the input. Guess it is a no then.
[08:32] <Azelphur> TOShrun: only advice I have for you is separate X screens, I use separate X screens myself so I know it's the answer to your question, just dunno how to do it on anything but nvidia :P
[08:33] <TOShrun> ok
[08:33] <TOShrun> ty
[08:33] <ali1234> seperate X screens is the worst of the lot. as mentioned, you cannot move windowws between monitors if you do that
[08:33] <Azelphur> ^ that + a lot of applications are buggy
[08:33] <ali1234> again, workspace management has nothing to do with X, it is a window manager function
[08:34] <ali1234> if window manager does not provide it the way you want, blame window manager :/
[08:34] <Azelphur> oh yea, you could find a window manager that supports it properly
[08:34] <ali1234> yeah
[08:34] <Azelphur> I may be in need of one myself sometime soon
[08:34] <ali1234> i don't know of any that actually do it
[08:35] <ali1234> gnome shell is probably the closest
[08:35] <ali1234> kwin probably does it, it does everything
[08:37] <Azelphur> superuser.com says There are a number of tiling WMs which will do this (Awesome3, scrotwm, Xmonad, probably dwm and wmii), and you can configure a *box (Open/Flux) to do this. Not aware of a way to do it in KDE or GNOME, at least not easily.
[08:37] <Azelphur> o.O
[08:37] <ali1234> also keyboard short cut to lock screen is probably click desktop then alt l o c k  s c r e e n <enter>
[08:38] <ali1234> yeah but tiling WM are horrible to use
[08:38] <gord> my keyboards have lock screen function keys
[08:39] <ali1234> would be nifty if the key on G19 to turn off the backlight and screen also turned off the main monitors
[08:40]  * Azelphur would be happy if his G19 didn't continually randomly turn itself off
[08:40]  * Azelphur stabs logitech
[08:40] <ali1234> then again, that also could be potentially really annoying since i like to turn that stuff off when watching a movie or something
[08:40] <ali1234> i thought you were going to go maplins and get a new PSU?
[08:40] <Azelphur> I did
[08:40] <Azelphur> didn't fix it :<
[08:40] <ali1234> well there isn't anything in it that could fail like that
[08:41] <Azelphur> I'll have to video it for you so you can see exactly what happens, then maybe you'll have an idea \o/
[08:41] <ali1234> "it just turns off" what else is there to know?
[08:42] <Azelphur> sometimes it boot loops too
[08:42] <Azelphur> the logitech logo will appear on the screen, and then it'll turn off, rinse and repeat
[08:42] <ali1234> i think it's your computer
[08:42] <Azelphur> :<
[08:42] <ali1234> it doesn't it have a history of killing USB devices?
[08:43] <Azelphur> nope
[08:43] <Azelphur> My g13 works fine so does my piano
[08:43] <ali1234> what about that arduino?
[08:43] <Azelphur> I'm semi-convinced that was just a software issue
[08:43] <ali1234> well there is simply nothing on the circuit board that can fail like that
[08:44] <Azelphur> fun
[08:44] <ali1234> test it while not plugged in to computer
[08:44] <ali1234> you will probably need to add a serial port to do that
[08:44] <Azelphur> bit difficult to do that, it only tends to fail while I'm using it and it usually takes a couple days of uptime to go weird
[08:45] <ali1234> or test it on another computer
[08:46] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-Series-Gaming-Keyboards/g19-restarts-itself/m-p/432636/highlight/true#M10771 is sorta interesting
[08:46] <Azelphur> I tried turning off EHCI, but I dunno if there's a ubuntu equiv to sideshow devices
[08:47] <ali1234> sideshow devices means those little LCD on the outside of the laptop
[08:47] <Azelphur> ah
[08:47] <Azelphur> second page is interesting, they blame a phone
[08:47] <Azelphur> I should test that
[08:47] <ali1234> i have never seen any problems and i have uptimes of several weeks usually
[08:48] <Azelphur> do you usually have a mobile phone right next to your keyboard
[08:48] <ali1234> yes, three actually
[08:48] <Azelphur> haha
[08:48] <Azelphur> maybe not that then :)
[08:48] <MooDoo> pah i've just smashed the screen on mine
[08:48] <Azelphur> MooDoo: ooops :x
[08:48] <ali1234> if you count the ones not switched on there's 5
[08:48] <ali1234> also a n800
[08:49] <MooDoo> Azelphur: yup pain in the neck
[08:50] <ali1234> who knows though, they may have done different circuit board revs
[08:50] <ali1234> or you might be further from the base station than me (thus your phone is yelling and mine is not)
[08:51] <Azelphur> I may well be pretty far from a base station
[08:51] <ali1234> putting phone on keyboard, sending yourself a text and then watching it crash seems pretty conclusive to me
[08:51] <Azelphur> I'll test it tomorrow \o/
[08:51] <Azelphur> I've had it crash a couple times when I put my phone on the keyboard, I was sorta tempted to say it was vibration, but maybe it's interference
[08:52] <ali1234> well that's easy to test
[08:54]  * AlanBell has the same exact laptop as TOShrun and doesn't have unity hating me so much with multimonitor in 12.04
[08:55] <TOShrun> But AlanBell has beaten it into submission. I'm a newbie
[08:56] <AlanBell> maybe it wore me down into compliance
[08:56] <AlanBell> you have to go with the flow
[08:56] <TOShrun> Ah - maybe. I am so used to gnome2 just working and not breaking. Guess I was spoiled. Progress eh?
[08:57] <AlanBell> yup
[08:58] <popey> yeah, GNOME 2 was 100% reliable for all of the last 7 years
[08:58] <popey> no, wait, the other one
[08:58] <ali1234> the worst part is that it only got reliable about 6 months before it was canned
[08:59] <ali1234> thus 6.5 years of hard work just discarded
[08:59] <AlanBell> unity is about ready for people to start testing it
[08:59] <awilkins> Yegods, Eclipse p2 is depressingly slow
[08:59] <TOShrun> 10.10 was great. It just worked. Always.
[09:00] <ali1234> 10.10 was probably best release yet
[09:02] <ali1234> pretty much since 11.04 i've been running exclusively +1
[09:02] <ali1234> because it's less broken than the releases
[09:02] <ali1234> which i suppose means they are at least improving
[09:04] <SuperMatt> ali1234: I wouldn't say that 6.5 years of work was discarded. One would hope that a lot of the stable code, etc, was reused.
[09:05] <ali1234> well the stable code that lives on in gnome 3 likely was around in gnome 1
[09:05] <ali1234> so it's a lot older than 7 years or w/e
[09:05] <SuperMatt> I would say that gnome 3 was exactly what was needed because I think that gnome 2 is hideously out of date and out of touch with what users want
[09:06] <ali1234> nope. you are describing gnome 3
[09:06] <Laney> ali1234 the user experience guru
[09:06] <SuperMatt> people only cry out for gnome 2 because they've just got their desktops the way they want them and don't want to change
[09:08] <ali1234> why is that a problem?
[09:08] <ali1234> do i come to your house and rearrange your furniture?
[09:08] <ali1234> put the TV behind the couch because "that's more efficient"
[09:08] <ali1234> and then accuse you of just not wanting to change?
[09:08] <SuperMatt> you do if I say "hey, I want the latest everything, and I'm happy to accept something off the shelf and have ikea do the work"
[09:10] <Laney> it's alright, with all of the contributions he's putting into MATE we'll be fine.
[09:10] <Laney> oh wait.
[09:11] <SuperMatt> I also think that some people confuse workflow efficiency with tinkering efficiency. Sure, there are a lot of hidden options which are a bitch to get to, but when you're configured, you need to focus on how well you work, and gnome 3 and unity do that very well
[09:11] <ali1234> hey, i thought ubuntu was supposed to be for human beings, not developers?
[09:11] <TOShrun> Ah - tell that to Dell (Sputnik)
[09:12] <Laney> i'll tell you one thing it is definitely not for: people who persistently complain without doing any of the work.
[09:12] <TOShrun> oooh
[09:12] <ali1234> uh, sorry
[09:12] <ali1234> but if you want to make extra work by reinventing the whell, you can be damn sure i won't help you
[09:12] <Laney> you'll just snipe
[09:12] <Laney> we've established that
[09:12] <ali1234> yes, i will
[09:13] <Laney> we have also established that it won't change a thing
[09:13] <Laney> so everyone's happy I guess
[09:13] <SuperMatt> huzzah!
[09:13]  * SuperMatt gets out the champagne
[09:14] <ali1234> but hey, we already established that i don't like change, so i guess i should just carry on?
[09:15] <MooDoo> ali1234: "keep calm and carry on" :)
[09:15] <Laney> i think you should get involved with developing a system you like, rather than complaining about those you don't
[09:15] <ali1234> why? i don't have time for developing desktops. why do you think i am using ubuntu?
[09:15] <ali1234> it's because i am lazy
[09:16] <Laney> well you've noticed that ubuntu isn't following your personal direction
[09:16] <ali1234> yeah
[09:16] <Laney> so ... I don't see what you can do if you're not willing to get involved?
[09:16] <Laney> those who do the work get to make the decisions, that's how this stuff works
[09:16] <ali1234> if i wasn't so lazy i would switch to something else
[09:17] <diplo> I do like Unity, I just find it lacking somewhere, and I can't work out what.. I am really trying this time but when I installed Cinnamon I felt that it worked better from the outset
[09:17] <diplo> I do feel the stability issues I've been having since Natty, and still somewhat into Precise have put me off A Lot
[09:17] <SuperMatt> I'm quite enjoying unity. I know it has a bug or two (or many) but it's still a very well rounded application. Now is the time to start using it, forsure
[09:18] <ali1234> i've explained this many times. your getting annoyed with my lack of willingness to help is the natural end result of making an OS targetted at "humans" - humans are lazy and don't want to do any work and just complain. so this whole conversation is in fact indicative of ubuntu's "success"
[09:20] <diplo> My biggest issue/annoyanceat themo is the second app bar on secondary screen
[09:20] <diplo> If I could remove that I would be happier
[09:20] <popey> you can
[09:20] <Laney> of course you can complain all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone has to listen to you
[09:21] <directhex> unity today is less horrifically broken than shell is
[09:21] <Laney> i think, as you seem to have a vision, that you would be happier if you tried to implement it
[09:21] <diplo> oh, last time I asked it was only available to hide, havent checked recently
[09:21] <directhex> and i've been deploying ubuntu with unity rather than shell, since i don't have the time to run studies on my users to see if they want shell instead
[09:21] <popey> diplo: super -> display -> "Launcher Placement"
[09:21] <ali1234> directhex: i absolutely agree
[09:21] <diplo> directhex, I totally agree with that, it got so bad for me on 11.04 I gave up and used a different DE for 6-8 months
[09:21] <diplo> ta
[09:22] <directhex> there's still plenty not to like in unity, but it's at least usable
[09:22] <diplo> popey, it sort of worked :)
[09:22] <diplo> And more stable
[09:23] <Laney> yeah, that it's not a tiling wm :(
[09:23] <directhex> as a random example, shell absolutely does not function with multi-monitors stacked vertically
[09:23] <directhex> especially with non-uniform sizes
[09:23] <diplo> It's gone to my right ( Secondary screen )
[09:23] <popey> thats my main dual-screen use-case
[09:23] <popey> my monitor is behind my laptop
[09:23] <popey> so i put one above the other
[09:23] <directhex> popey, used shell?
[09:23] <popey> no, thats verboten ;)
[09:24] <ali1234> really? i wouldn't have thought it would make any difference at all, given that shell just ignores any monitor after the first
[09:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:24] <czajkowski> popey: where are the plenary videos from uds ?
[09:24] <popey> youtube
[09:24] <AlanBell> now that alt-tab works I am ok with unity
[09:24] <directhex> ali1234, no, it doesn't. shell users are the majority in the office, and multi-monitor is very common. it almost works, except with vertical stacking
[09:24] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers
[09:24] <AlanBell> czajkowski: they cut the good bits from Daviey's plenary
[09:24] <ali1234> really? so you can have multiple workspaces on the secondary monitors now?
[09:24] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[09:25] <directhex> no, the workspace behaviour is braindead. iirc it only supports something like mirroring, or one fixed workspace on the second display
[09:25] <directhex> not sure, i don't use multi monitor
[09:26] <directhex> unity annoyances are mostly that dash is laughably slow compared to Do
[09:26]  * popey goes back to bed with ubuflu
[09:26] <czajkowski> popey: nn get well
[09:27] <directhex> and a few apps confuse the hell out of the thing that tracks window parentage. bamf, is it?
[09:27] <DJones> Should that not be UDSflu, rather than UBUflu
[09:27] <SuperMatt> popey: is that the UDS version of fresher's flu?
[09:29] <popey> yes
[09:29] <directhex> SuperMatt, yes
[09:29] <SuperMatt> gotcha
[09:29]  * popey chuckles at bamf
[09:29] <popey> bad a$$ mo fo..
[09:29] <directhex> BAMF!
[09:30] <directhex> popey, nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamf
[09:31] <gord> its the bamf application matching framework
[09:31] <popey> yeah yeah, that's the _sensible_ answer
[09:31] <gord> i have no idea what popey is talking about, ignore him
[09:32] <AlanBell>  /ignore popey
[09:32] <gord> he is delirious from ubuflu
[09:32] <popey> its the ubuflu
[09:32] <popey> bed
[09:32] <popey> nn
[09:32] <AlanBell> nn
[09:33] <jussi> pish, popey is always delerious :P
[09:33] <directhex> at any rate, it poops itself over unison2.27.57-gtk
[09:33] <ali1234> and anything java related
[09:33] <directhex> java has always confused window managers
[09:34] <ali1234> yeah, but it especially confuses bamf
[09:34] <directhex> chances are it'll be fine if you set the variable which makes java use the old X driver, not the new one
[09:34] <directhex> the old one worked with everything
[09:34] <ali1234> nope
[09:34] <gord> java doesn't export any information that bamf can use to match windows -> desktop files, java needs to be fixed
[09:34] <ali1234> also anything that is statically compiled tends to not work properly
[09:36] <AlanBell> is there any realistic prospect of java being fixed?
[09:36] <directhex> lol
[09:36] <ali1234> having two binaries for one program, or two .desktop files for one program, really confuses it
[09:37] <directhex> AlanBell, nobody's "fixed" java for decades :p
[09:37] <AlanBell> now that it has been given the dementors kiss by oracle
[09:37] <ali1234> and no, there is zero chance of java being fixed unless one of the bamf developers does it
you should just fix it instead of complaining about it</rant>
[09:38] <directhex> i like java being broken.
[09:38] <gord> would be nice if there were some sort of good bounty website for this kind of stuff
[09:38] <ali1234> only if the bounties are actually worth the effort involved
[09:39] <ali1234> $50 bounty for massive invasive changes to java that upstream will never accept = no thanks
[09:39] <directhex> the point of free software development is that it enables people to "scratch an itch"
[09:40] <directhex> any project which does not permit external contribution is effectively not useful in that sense, since you can't contribute scratched itches
[09:41]  * AlanBell installs eclipse to see how broken it is
[09:41] <TOShrun> Ah - I wouldn't recommend running the packaged eclipse AlanBell
[09:41] <directhex> eclipse is why i quit developing in java
[09:42] <ali1234> lol
[09:42] <ali1234> eclipse isn't that bad
[09:42] <TOShrun> it gets very broken when eclipse updates some of it's packages.
[09:42] <directhex> i was a java dev once. it's true! my degree was mostly java-based
[09:42] <ali1234> by which i mean, it isn't the worst thing about java
[09:42] <TOShrun> just download a tarball and run it from ~/bin
[09:42] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what do you need eclipse for?
[09:43] <TOShrun> Eclipse works OK - it's a bit slow but I like the UI and integration of SVN and various languages
[09:43] <TOShrun> I also use Talend (built on Eclipse)
[09:44] <AlanBell> bigcalm: well apparently java applications don't work with unity
[09:44] <ali1234> if you just want to test that i suggest something smaller
[09:44] <bigcalm> AlanBell: have a look at NetBeans
[09:45] <AlanBell> it is installed now
[09:45] <AlanBell> so I have a launcher icon, I click it, it launches
[09:45] <ali1234> *eventually* :)
[09:45] <AlanBell> I have SSD, it launches
[09:46] <AlanBell> gedit launches slightly faster, but not by much :)
[09:47] <AlanBell> click, have mouthfull of coffee, put mug down, its ready
[09:47] <ali1234> gedit loads as quickly as switching to an already running instance here
[09:48] <ali1234> so now it's loaded, what happens?
[09:49] <awilkins> AlanBell, I don't think Java and Unity are mutually exclusive
[09:50] <ali1234> yeah, i never said they were
[09:50] <awilkins> AlanBell, I think Eclipse is actually blacklisted from the global menu
[09:50] <ali1234> i just said java apps confuse bamf
[09:50] <awilkins> AlanBell, Something about it not coping with dynamic menu updates AFAIK
[09:51] <ali1234> though open office (or whatever they're calling it this week) doesn't. that's written in java right?
[09:51] <AlanBell> oh, I turned off global menu because it breaks wayland
[09:51] <awilkins> Tasktop, which is an Eclipse RCP app, does work with the global menu (not sure if this is an oversight, or deliberate though)
[09:51] <awilkins> ali1234, LibreOffice is C++ with some Java bits
[09:51] <awilkins> Which they are trying to remove as fast as possible
[09:51] <ali1234> ok, that's probably why it works then
[09:51] <awilkins> ali1234, There's a plugin - lo-menubar
[09:51] <ali1234> AlanBell: you use wayland?
[09:52] <awilkins> ali1234,  But it's not regarded as stable enough to support, I've never had trouble with it
[09:52] <ali1234> lo-menubar? what is that?
[09:52] <ali1234> i'm talking about bamf, not global menus
[09:52] <awilkins> Oh, soz
[09:52] <AlanBell> I was running some stuff in weston, GTK things 'work' but only if you turn off all the canonical stuff that goes off piste and requires native X
[09:52] <ali1234> i also have global menus turned off, because they suck
[09:53] <AlanBell> so overlay scrollbars and global menus need turning off
[09:53] <ali1234> yep
[09:53] <ali1234> porting all that stuff to wayland is going to be fun
[09:53] <awilkins> I quite like overlay scollbars for Eclipse, it has so many panes that the scrollbars become a major drain on it's screen real estate
[09:53] <ali1234> luckily it will be fun for someone other than me
[09:53] <TOShrun> ali1234: How do you turn off that global menu thing? It get's on my nerves too. Having to move the mouse *way* up to the top of the screen - it used to be right there.
[09:54] <ali1234> awilkins: and what if you want to resize the panes, and the handle thing just blocks you every time?
[09:54] <awilkins> ali1234, It's not something I recall being frustrated by
[09:54] <ali1234> i currently have an open bug about that one
[09:55] <ali1234> TOShrun: just looking up the guide for doing it
[09:55] <awilkins> ali1234, It may be worse since the most recent iteration of the scrollbars which are sensitive all along their height
[09:55] <ali1234> you have to do a combination of removing packages and setting environment variables to get rid of it everywhere (because it requires so many hacks and patches to every UI toolkit)
[09:56] <TOShrun> ah
[09:57] <ali1234> ok to start with you want to export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY= in your prefered place for putting environment variables
[09:57] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10481/how-do-i-disable-the-global-application-menu
[09:58] <ali1234> this question seems out of date and i'm sure there was a much better one
[09:59] <TOShrun> There are a few links to other interesting pages. Will read when I have more time. Thanks
[10:01] <davmor2> morning all
[10:01] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105889/can-i-completely-disable-the-menu-proxy
[10:01] <ali1234> there are also issues if you use X11 forwarding and such
[10:02] <ali1234> ok, eclipse does not confuse bamf any more
[10:10] <directhex> BAMF!
[10:10] <AlanBell> eclipse seems like any other application to me
[10:16] <selinuxium> Hi all  o/
[10:17] <SuperMatt> word up
[10:17] <ali1234> yeah, eclipse works fine
[10:17] <directhex> except for being eclipse
[10:17] <ali1234> natch
[10:18] <ali1234> i just mean in terms of launching, locking to launcher, etc
[10:18] <Knightwise> morning everyone :)
[10:19] <ali1234> ah, not quite. unlock it from the launcher, then run it from the dash (not a terminal) and you get no icon
[10:20] <ali1234> actually didn't someone run into that bug the other day?
[10:20] <TOShrun> if you minimise it and move to a different workspace, then go back (when it has no icon) you can't get to it. Unless you install Expo
[10:21] <Knightwise> grr.
[10:21] <Knightwise> fell of the internet there
[10:21] <TOShrun> alt+tab doesn't show it. Expo does.
[10:21] <selinuxium> Any Millbank peeps about? I have a problem trying to give Canonical a couple of grand...
[10:21] <Knightwise> too busy writing manuals for dumb users.
[10:22] <TOShrun> popey: is asleep selinuxium (shhh)
[10:23] <davmor2> jpds: you about ^^^
[10:23] <selinuxium> TOShrun, :)
[10:23] <selinuxium> I have pinged czajkowski as well... :)
[10:23] <TOShrun> Must work out how to create a password so I can login to freenode with the same name ;-)
[10:24] <jpds> davmor2: Hi.
[10:24] <SuperMatt> omg loving virtual machine manager in precise, I can now save the vm state :)
[10:24] <selinuxium> jpds, has answered the call!
[10:25] <davmor2> jpds: many thanks
[10:27] <selinuxium> SuperMatt, explain do you mean on KVM?
[10:27] <SuperMatt> yeah
[10:28] <SuperMatt> unless this is a feature that's been there for ages but I was too blind to see :P
[10:31] <selinuxium> SuperMatt. Has been a while since I have used KVM. I have two spare servers now to play with so will be setting it up again..
[10:36] <AlanBell> !register | TOShrun
[10:48] <oimon> getting memtest errors on a bunch of new kit. same address on nearly every one.
[10:48] <oimon> :-\
[10:50] <davmor2> oimon: try another version of memtest might be a bug in memtest itself
[10:51] <oimon> it's possible, i was thinking that
[10:54] <Knightwise> when i want users to have read only access to a folder
[10:54] <Knightwise> do i just need to chown it and then go chmod 775 ?
[10:56] <davmor2> oimon: it might be that the version of memtest doesn't know about the newer memory in the machine so is hitting a coding error maybe
[10:56] <hoover> Knightwise: 755 might be better
[10:56] <hoover> Knightwise: depending on your group setup
[10:57] <hoover> 755 == owner rw, group + rest of the world ro
[10:57] <hoover> you could also add the users to the group you want to allow read access for
[11:00] <MooDoo> alright davmor2 :)
[11:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka 'ow am ya
[11:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes not too bad thanks
[11:34] <filo1234> hi all
[11:35] <filo1234> I've enabled root account for some test, ad after I've re-disabled root using passwd -d root , so why recovery mode ask for CTRL-D or password if root has empty password again?
[11:38] <filo1234> so if I type "return" I can login without password, but I remember that recovery ( by default ) with root disabled doesn't ask for CTRL-D
[11:43] <MooDoo> yay oggcamp hotel booked
[11:44] <DJones> Where are you staying
[11:45] <MooDoo> DJones: at the britannia adelphi - http://oggcamp.org/accommodation/
[11:46] <DJones> Right, hadn't realised most people tried to stay at one venue
[11:49] <MooDoo> DJones: they have had quite a few booking this morning
[11:53] <DJones> Right, the place is only 30 minutes from home for me
[11:54] <MooDoo> DJones: you'll be ok then :D
[11:55] <DJones> Yep, going to try and visit, but I've got holidays, cousins wedding and birthdays all around the oggcamp weekend so I might not make it
[12:07] <SuperMatt> sigh, my habbit of checking for updates every half an hour or so seems to have extended past the beta phase
[12:08] <SuperMatt> maybe I should install quantal so I have something to update every once in a while
[12:13] <Knightwise> hmm.. playing around with google Drive
[12:14] <Knightwise> looks very satisfying too. I can now finally organise my GoogleDocs
[12:15] <SuperMatt> out for linux yet?
[12:17] <SuperMatt> The reason why I'm going google drive (when I can) is because I use gmail, I like picasa, and it share its space with drive, so I can put all my photos up on picasa and have google drive use the remainder of the space
[12:17] <SuperMatt> that way I only have to manage one subscription
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> Picasa and drive share space?
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> My Picasa only has 1 or 2 GB.. my gmail has 7.5
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> 10
[12:20] <feisar> hi, does anyone have a recommendation for simple online storage space that I can ssh/rsync to?
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> feisar: a VPS?
[12:21] <feisar> no it's a physical server
[12:21] <mattt> VPS not redundant :(
[12:22] <feisar> I'd like around 1TB of space, that I can just mirror stuff to using ssh/rsync
[12:22] <SuperMatt> feisar: wait until google drive comes out for linux, you might be able to do that with command line
[12:23] <SuperMatt> what about amazon cloud? is that redundant?
[12:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Use something like sparkleshare on your own hosted h/w?
[12:24] <Knightwise> SuperMatt: that would be cool :)
[12:24] <feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: that's the kind of thing I'm looking for but I want it in a different location to our own h/w
[12:25] <Knightwise> i do know that Steve Gibson mentioned a bunch of cloud solutions on the last 2 podcasts of "security now"
[12:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> run that on EC2
[12:25] <SuperMatt> I would go with EC2
[12:25] <feisar> thanks, I', looking at EC2 now, looks like ssh & rsync work
[12:28] <mattt> there was some rsync service
[12:28] <mattt> i remember seeing them advertising on the gentoo site all the time
[12:28] <feisar> mattt: that might be event better
[12:28] <mattt> http://rsync.net/
[12:29] <feisar> just got em!
[12:30] <feisar> rsync.net looks perfect
[12:31] <feisar> mattt: thanks : )
[12:32] <feisar> actually, it's a little expensive
[12:34] <Knightwise> feisar: why not run your own server somewhere ? All the gigs you want ? or use something like bluehost (i know they dont like it if you use their webspace as filestorage .. but it works ?)
[12:34] <Knightwise> they have SSH access to the directories so in theory it should work too
[12:35] <feisar> running my own would definitely give me all the space I need but where do you put a server like that?
[12:35] <Knightwise> grandma's house ? (i've done that)
[12:36] <feisar> if it was for personal use, yesh but this is for an organisation
[12:36] <feisar> yesh?! I mean yeah
[12:36] <Knightwise> hmm .. not very professional indeed
[12:36] <diplo> feisar, called co-locating
[12:36] <feisar> they need about 600GB of space and £300 a month is pretty expensive
[12:37] <Knightwise> but check out the links to the security now podcast , perhaps there is a service in there for you ?
[12:37] <diplo> But it's nto cheap if you are thinking rsyncs prices are dear
[12:37] <diplo> Alzephur hosts a box in the US, if latency isn't an issue
[12:37] <diplo> It's a lot cheaper to host there
[12:38] <feisar> US would be fine, I think rsync.net is in the US
[12:39] <Knightwise> realy ?
[12:39] <feisar> if only they had two offices... I might have to use tapes
[12:39] <Knightwise> you and the NSA have nothing to hide from each other ?
[12:40] <diplo> If you are that worried you could encrypt :)
[12:40] <feisar> it could be encrypted
[12:40]  * TheOpenSourcerer uses machines in Germany - A machine with 2x3TB (RAID 1) for €49/m
[12:40] <diplo> I take it 600gb is total storage, wat sort of storage are you looking at ?
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> And it has 10TB bandwidth/m
[12:41] <diplo> What I was about to suggest TheOpenSourcerer, running your own dedi server shouldn't be that dear, just need a bit of housekeeping to make sure it's secure
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
[12:42] <feisar> 3TB for 49 a month is good
[12:42] <feisar> I figured that dedicated hosting would cost more than just getting some space somewhere
[12:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s
[12:43] <mattt> feisar: may not meet your requirements, but may want to look at amazon's S3, rackspace's cloud files, etc.
[12:43] <feisar> yeah, thanks guys
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - wrong one: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> That €49 in inc. VAT btw.
[12:44] <mattt> jeez, that's cheap
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[12:44] <feisar> it seems odd that I can get 3TB of space there with all that processor power and yet can get the space on it's own for less
[12:44] <mattt> i have a hetzner box, paying around 49 euros a month
[12:44] <mattt> and it certainly doesn't have those specs :)
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have 4 hetzner boxes now.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Of varying specs.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some more, some less.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> They update their h/w quite frequently.
[12:45] <mattt> yeah, i need to ditch mine
[12:45] <mattt> i'm not using it a lot
[12:46] <mattt> a lot of people moan about hetzner, but i've not had any probs
[12:46] <mattt> which reminds me
[12:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> feisar needs one.
[12:46] <mattt> i had a reminder a few weeks back about my server getting moved between datacentres
[12:46] <mattt> forgot about it, but fortunately it moved without issue :)
[12:46] <mattt> actually it never moved, checking my uptime
[12:47] <feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for the link
[12:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> np
[12:56] <Knightwise> Sigh :) Need Coffee !
[12:56]  * Knightwise needs to patch his Java quota
[12:57] <feisar> I dont understand how hetzner are so cheap nothing in the UK even comes close to that amount of space
[12:59] <MooDoo> feisar: they employ pixies
[12:59] <feisar> ha
[13:00] <awilkins> Judicious de-duping?
[13:02] <feisar> yeah
[13:03] <feisar> although I don't thank that would work with most of what I'd be storing there
[13:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's German efficiency!
[13:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh Talend 5.1 out today.
[13:14] <Knightwise> hmm. i was looking at getting me a second hand HP DM1 netbook
[13:14] <Knightwise> but it looks like it isnt very precise friendly :(
[13:20] <AlanBell> straight to Quantal then Knightwise
[13:23] <Knightwise> lol :) might be a bit early to run the alpha on there, dont you think ?
[13:24] <Knightwise> Might just upgrade the harddrive in my 2009 macbook air with an SSD and punch ubuntu on there , works fine
[13:26] <MooDoo> ssd o/
[13:26] <diplo> :(
[13:26] <DJones> Heh Gnome flavour Ubuntu considered http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEwMTU
[13:26] <diplo> I really must save for one
[13:27] <Knightwise> i am looking at the ones at OWC (other world computing) pretty cheep and pretty nice
[13:27] <Knightwise> installed one in my Macbook pro http://knightwise.com/kwtv-0031-qmutate-your-macbookq/
[13:29] <awilkins> I'm thinking of upgrading my 64GB one to a 128GB one
[13:29] <awilkins> It's in a caddy, I shlep it between work and home
[13:29] <awilkins> It's my OS disk at work and I bind-mount the working folders on my desktop at home
[13:30] <awilkins> It's survived much better than the spinning-rust ones that I used to do the same with
[13:30] <awilkins> They all drop dead from mechanical faults
[13:31] <awilkins> External HDD caddy controllers are crapulous in general too, they fail really quickly
[13:38]  * AlanBell is sleepy
[13:39]  * AlanBell thinks customers should accept consultants need an afternoon nap
[13:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha
[13:39] <diplo> I think i could start taking an afternoon nap
[13:39] <MooDoo> lazy buggre :)
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: is that French? :)
[13:40] <DJones> I thought it was spanish for Have a siesta
[13:41] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oui :)
[13:42] <gord> AlanBell, i petition for nap time sessions every uds, no one takes me seriously :(
[13:42] <SuperMatt> should make it one of the ubuntu achievements
[13:43] <davmor2> gord: no one ever takes you seriously though dude you should be used to it ;)
[13:43] <gord> i am *always* super cereal.
[13:44] <directhex> even about manbearpig?
[13:45] <gord> *especially*
[13:45] <directhex> i hear he's half man and half bearpig
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> directhex: like some kind of weird centaur?
[14:01] <Knightwise> hey MartijnVdS , goed !
[14:01] <Knightwise> gord !
[14:01] <Knightwise> didn't smell you come in :)
[14:04] <davmor2> pig bear man, surely they are missing the the word ugly and spelt bear wrong :D
[14:07] <bigcalm> Wish it was Wednesday so that I could have steak and a couple of pints. Damn you slow week
[14:08] <czajkowski> will be taking part in flossie next week http://www.flossie.org/?page_id=125
[14:09] <oimon> czajkowski, you are in the main QMUL maths lecture theatre for these?
[14:10] <oimon> doesn't say which dept.but i think its maths
[14:11] <czajkowski> oimon: no idea
[14:12] <oimon> looks like a really fun conference, shame its women only
[14:13] <czajkowski> no it's not
[14:14] <AlanBell> oh, I need to get CDs to Paula for that
[14:14] <czajkowski> open to anyone who wants to come along
[14:14] <czajkowski> just the majority of speakers are women
[14:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hey you could invite some folks from Dell Norway ;-)
[14:14] <MooDoo> there should be a central site for events like this, as i only ever here about them when czajkowski mentioned them lol
[14:14] <oimon> oh i didn't know that men can go
[14:15] <czajkowski> oimon: it doesnt say men not welcome now does it
[14:15] <czajkowski> anywhere!
[14:15] <DJones> oimon: You have to wear a dress though :)
[14:15] <czajkowski> MooDoo: lanyard is good
[14:15] <oimon> someone told me, and i couldn't find information to refute what they said
[14:16] <czajkowski> scarmongering
[14:16] <oimon> maybe she didn't want me there :P
[14:16] <oimon> as i work on the campus
[14:16] <MooDoo> oimon: i can believe that ;)
[14:17] <shauno> to be fair, between the 'who is this event for' bit, and "For everyone who loves Free Libre Software and identifies as a woman" in the sidebar, I'd probably reach the same conclusion unless told otherwise
[14:18] <oimon> shauno, yeah, sounds like it might be a bit ...awkward
[14:18] <oimon> actually i'm offsite on a course that week anyway
[14:21] <czajkowski> *headdesk*
[14:25] <MooDoo> wassup czajkowski *PROD*
[15:51]  * aquarius tries new irc client.
[15:52] <awilkins> Aha, an app that DOES confuse the taskbar
[15:52] <awilkins> MySQL Workbench
[15:52] <awilkins> I guess it gets it's own dedicated workspace with no other apps on it
[16:12] <awilkins> Suddenly I find my will to go on a little sapped
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> On my 12.04 desktop virt-manager is not letting me create a new image. I get a message: "invalid storage volume pointer in no storage vol with matching path"
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> The server (host) has not changed.
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> running virt-manager over ssh.
[19:17] <MarkDude> popey, ftw! https://twitter.com/#!/MarkDude/status/202462902903517185/photo/1
[19:49] <Sarah__> burmesearmy
[20:05] <Laney> indeed.
[20:07] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: create the hdd image manually and attach it, I did that the other day
[20:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - worked that out in the end
[20:25] <mattt> Laney: lolz
[20:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh goody. Precise just decided it had had enough - the launcher started flashing various icons and then it slowed to crawl. Took me 15 minutes to carefully shut as many apps as I could down then reboot.
[20:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is really not very good.
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> wouldn't restarting unity work?
[20:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I couldn't. It had all but locked up. Didn't/couldn't get to a terminal without trying to start something. It was in a state.
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> scary
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> nvidia?
[20:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I get one or two crashes each day.
[20:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes. But a fairly old and low powered GPU.
[20:44]  * MartijnVdS hugs his intel gpu
[20:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> This machine was rock solid on 10.10 BTW.
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> I remember there being problems with nvidia gpus becoming desoldered because they got too hot
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> but that was several years ago
[20:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> This was a fairly simple card (fanless) just to do compiz - it has been fine.
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> My brother's laptop had the "solder" problem
[20:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Most of the time in Unity it seems OK but eventually 12.04 seems to get fscked and gives up.
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> usually after I have lots of windows open.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> what happens when you use the other driver?
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> nouveau vs nvidia-proprietary?
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> on several workspaces.
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the nvidia driver installed.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> Does it also crash with the nvidia driver uninstalled/nouveau driver running?
[20:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea. And this is a work machine - I am trying to do work. Not debug buggy software...
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> Switching to the free driver fixed crashes for a few of my coworkers
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> It made it a lot slower too
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> but it didn't crash anymore
[20:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I may give that a go then. Thanks for the tip.
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> if it doesn't work, it might be fried hardware though :|
[20:51] <bigcalm> How do I find out how much memory my graphics card has?
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's usually somewhere in the Xorg.log
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in /var/log
[20:53] <bigcalm> Ta
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, lspci -v will probably show it
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 	Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> for mine
[20:54] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, want to stick with Unity, I was having similar problems.. tried Cinnamon and no longer any issues
[20:54] <diplo> My issues have pretty much gone now though.
[20:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> what is cinnamon?
[20:55] <diplo> The gnome2 fork
[20:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> so not using 3d at all
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> that would explain the lack of crashes
[20:55] <diplo> gnome3
[20:55] <diplo> I'd say win7 esq
[20:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> But this box was fine with 10.10, compiz cubes and stuff.
[20:55] <diplo> Worked really well though
[20:55] <diplo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/cinnamon-project-keeps-gnome-2-style-desktop-alive/
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Never buy nvidia again ;)
[20:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, I am not convinced that this is down to nvidia. I've always used the nvidia drivers before and not had issues.
[20:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have issues since changing from 10.10 to 12.04
[20:57] <hamitron> 295.40?
[20:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a GeForce 9500 GT in this box.
[20:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> And now I am going to bed.
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> nn
[20:59] <hamitron> I can't get packages.ubuntu.com working?
[22:20] <yothsoggoth> does anyone have any clues on the area-screenshot not working when pressting Shift+Print?
[22:21] <AlanBell> works for me (and I never knew it did that)
[22:21] <yothsoggoth> Hmm, I swear it used to work for me too, but it doesn't do anything anymore. :(. I only found it last week, it's a wonderful feature
[22:21] <yothsoggoth> ... if it was working, that is lol
[22:34] <yothsoggoth> Hmm, also.. trying to set a keyboard shortcut in the settings menu, pressing "Alt+Print" comes up as "Alt L", so it's impossible to reset the window printscreen shortcut
[22:35] <AlanBell> if you file 28 bugs about it then you will get bug 1000000
[22:35] <AlanBell> it will be found tomorrow
[22:57] <yothsoggoth> or Later tonight, I think bug 999979 was just posted
[23:01] <yothsoggoth> is "gnome-screenshot" the program used by default for screenshots?
[23:03] <Azelphur> yep
[23:05] <yothsoggoth> "gnome-screenshot -a" works fine, so I guess the bug is in whatever handles the keyboard shortcuts? I also tried setting Launch Terminal to Shift+Print and that worked, so it's not a case if the shortcut being incorrectly picked up


[12:24] <Dimicus> Hi guys. anyone can spare a min ?
[12:24] <maccam94> Dimicus: what's up?
[12:24] <Dimicus> HI.. i have a prob with my soundcard. unusal as i understand :P
[12:24] <Dimicus> i cant use 2 sounddevice at same time
[12:25] <Dimicus> when im on teamspeak i cant play mp3 and viceversa
[12:25] <Dimicus> and as i understand i need full duplex soundcard
[12:25] <Dimicus> and my fiend has the same card and it work for him so i suppose it full duplex
[12:25] <Dimicus> i use fiesty fawn edubuntu
[12:26] <Dimicus> and my fiend use a older release
[12:26] <Dimicus> its a alc880
[12:26] <stgraber> If you want to make two softwares using OSS (not alsa) you'll need a soundcard with hardware-mixing
[12:26] <stgraber> otherwise alsa mixing will do it for most of the other softwares
[12:27] <maccam94> sounds like you are having an issue with one or both of the apps not using esd (the esound daemon). check system -> preferences -> sound and make sure you're using esd and not alsa or oss. if esd is set, check out #ubuntu, they should be able to help with basic ubuntu issues like that ;-)
[12:27] <stgraber> Dimicus: cat /proc/asound/pcm
[12:28] <Laser_away> gonzaloaf_work: we moved the educational apps to the Server Add-on CD for 7.04
[12:28] <Laser_away> gonzaloaf_work: it alows us to put more of them on and gives room for more server/low-level stuff on the 1st CD
[12:28] <stgraber> if you have : playback 2 or more it should works fine with TS and any other OSS software
[12:29] <stgraber> if you have : playback 1, then you'll only be able to use one software using OSS at a time
[12:29] <stgraber> (or will have to use artsd, esd, pulseaudio, or any other sound daemon)
[12:29] <stgraber> (but TS doesn't work with most of them)
[12:29] <Dimicus> thanx will check. tried #ubuntu but the problem is that that channel is so crowded noways so impposible to get help
[12:30] <maccam94> Dimicus: ah, makes sense
[12:30] <stgraber> the full-duplex itself is being able to record+play sound at the same time, not being able to have multiple access to the sound card
[12:31] <maccam94> stgraber: well that's kind of teamspeak/mp3 playback
[12:31] <maccam94> although teamspeak is recording and playback
[12:31] <stgraber> teamspeak+mp3+Quake3 works just fine with my Audigy 2 ZS :)
[12:31] <stgraber> but it has a 8 channels hardware-mixing
[12:32] <stgraber> otherwise you'll have sound problem for sure as soon as those softwares don't use alsa
[12:34] <gonzaloaf_work> does anybody know if my clients can play sounds?
[12:35] <maccam94> i think that may be new in feisty, or else it's still in the works. i remember seeing it on the list of things to do on the ubuntu development site....
[12:35] <Dimicus> Ok i have made sure that i use esd on everything. teamspeak still not working. hoever i checked ct /proc/asound/pcm and it says i have playback 1
[12:37] <Dimicus> so thats mean i needa new soundcard ?
[12:38] <stgraber> there are some workarounds using artsd, but you may feel a delay while speaking on TS
[12:38] <Dimicus> well i have another soundcard i can install so no worry tehre
[12:38] <stgraber> check out the wiki, I'm pretty sure to have seen that in it
[12:39] <maccam94> gonzaloaf_work: this might answer your question: Edubuntu LTSP Thin Client... The thin client boot-speed is improved in the new release, and LTSP sound support now enables volume control while providing sound to many more applications.
[12:40] <Dimicus> thanx for the answer guys realy appreciate it. hope you can help me with other things later on :) gonna fix lstp for a little home project ;)
[12:44] <lns> Can anyone vouch for the stability/usability of Sabayon?
[12:45] <lns> I.E., is it something that would be better off in the testing lab, or in a production environment?
[12:45] <Burgwork> yes and mostly
[12:45] <Burgwork> I know of people that use it in production
[12:45] <lns> Burgwork, it looks really really nice... it seems to be the answer to what my customer is asking for right now with Ubuntu/LTSP/Edubuntu for creating user profiles
[12:46] <lns> Thank you..I wanted to know from experienced users if it would be good to recommend using this, as long as it's not buggy
[12:46] <lns> so many little apps are, it's hard to be sure sometimes when there's a lot riding on it
[12:46] <Burgwork> it does require a little bit of setup
[12:47] <lns> Burgwork, does that mean a default profile? do you have any URLs i can study?
[12:47] <Burgwork> http://www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon/ldap.html
[12:47] <Burgwork> for ldap
[12:47] <lns> ty!
[12:48] <lns> man, i really need to get up to speed on ldap
[12:48] <lns> that seems like the true cornerstone of SO many awesome network setups and configurations
[12:56] <gonzaloaf_work> I dont know what happened, I put the correct user and password but my clients doesnt login, why?
[01:02] <lns> gonzaloaf_work, can you elaborate at all on "clients doesnt login'?
[01:03] <gonzaloaf_work> lns, I enter the user then the password... it tries to log but it returns to the login window
[01:04] <lns> gonzaloaf_work, have you examined the logs at all?
[01:05] <cliebow>   gonzaloaf_work have  you tried ltsp-update-sshkeys?
[01:07] <gonzaloaf_work> lns, yep
[01:07] <gonzaloaf_work> cliebow, noup
[01:07] <gonzaloaf_work> cliebow, why should I do that?
[01:24] <cliebow> that helps sometimes..
[01:25] <cliebow> cause ldm is just a front  for ssh
[01:25] <cliebow> so the keys could  be mixed
[04:23] <Laser_away> dabaR: they are both approved
[04:24] <LaserJock> and I think they'll be done primarily by the GSoC student
[06:18] <dabaR> I am trying to figure out whether the GSoC program is aiming to produce open-source projects, or to develop free software:)
[06:25] <LaserJock> dabaR: how do you mean?
[06:26] <LaserJock> dabaR: they are paying for students to work on a project for a summer
[06:28] <dabaR> See, if I was the student, part of my work would be on motivating and building a community of people to work on my project with me.
[06:29] <dabaR> Making people interested in my project, and wanting to contribute.
[06:29] <dabaR> Maybe that is cause I am into project management more than coding.
[06:30] <dabaR> I feel like open source is the process, free software is the product...
[06:30] <dabaR> I mean, that is how they talk about them in theory, in one reading.
[06:31] <dabaR> Dunno. I am gonna get involved in the PyStart project(if plausible), so I can benefit from my involvement. I am hoping to learn python, pygtk, get involved with *buntu, learn about conducting open source...
[06:32] <LaserJock> well
[06:32] <dabaR> And I think others may have interest in doing so. And any help to my GSoC project means I am more likely to get the money at the end.
[06:32] <LaserJock> GSoC is about starting a project
[06:32] <LaserJock> so they pay somebody to do some code
[06:32] <LaserJock> the hope would be that a community would form around it
[06:33] <ajmitch> GSoC also requires that it be your own work that you submit
[06:33] <LaserJock> but since there's payment for service involved it's not easy to allow a bunch of people to contribute while one person is getting paid
[06:34] <dabaR> ajmitch: so, no community work allowed?
[06:34] <LaserJock> I don't know that it's not allowed exactly
[06:34] <ajmitch> it would make community work difficult
[06:34] <dabaR> I guess I should have read about how GSoC works to learn the answers to my questions. THat is what I will do next. I got my clue:)
[06:34] <LaserJock> but I think it needs to be clear that the student did the work
[06:35] <LaserJock> but I think the community is welcome to give tips, discuss the project, etc.
[06:35] <dabaR> And not contribute code. Weird. Google does not get open source in the end! ;)
[06:36] <dabaR> Just kidding, to make that clear...
[06:36] <LaserJock> the students are required to provide the source in the end
[06:37] <dabaR> I meant get open source as in understand it.
[06:37] <bimberi> i wonder who owns the copyright?
[06:37] <LaserJock> I think the student
[06:38] <bimberi> good
[06:38] <dabaR> I will research, and come back with some conclusions.
[06:41] <dabaR> Each student (or her/his mentoring organization) must license all student GSoC code under a license palatable to the mentoring organization. Some organizations will require students to assign copyright to them, but many will allow them to retain copyright. If Google is a student's sponsoring organization, then the student keeps copyright to her/his code.
[06:42] <dabaR> PyStart will use GPL v2.
[06:42] <dabaR> I am pretty sure that it does not make sense that all code has to be produced by the student
[06:44] <dabaR> Thanks a lot.
[06:44] <bimberi> I'd say if a student can have others do the work for them they deserve a reward for their ... entrepreneurship :)
[06:45] <LaserJock> well, I'd say it would be against the spirit of GSoC to have other people do the work
[06:45] <dabaR> bimberi: same thoughts here.
[06:45] <dabaR> Noone is a fool...
[06:46] <dabaR> Noone will work if the guy that is getting paid is not.
[06:46] <bimberi> LaserJock: absolutely
[06:46] <LaserJock> dabaR: no, but if somebody offered to split the money if the other person did the work ...
[06:47] <dabaR> Anyhow, I have high hopes for my involvement the PyStart project.
[06:47] <LaserJock> sure
[06:47] <LaserJock> it just might take until the summer is over before the communit an really dig in
[06:47] <dabaR> LaserJock: I can see where you are going with it.
[06:48] <dabaR> With your argument.
[06:48] <dabaR> LaserJock: And that is true too.
[06:48] <LaserJock> well, the point is that student is being paid to learn and provide something for the community
[06:48] <LaserJock> having lots of people doing the work for them kinda defeats the point
[06:49] <LaserJock> then it just becomes a "who get's the money" thing
[06:50] <dabaR> I am not suggesting I will do work for them. With them.
[06:50] <dabaR> Cause, I can maybe write the unit tests while he is doing the code.
[06:51] <dabaR> And proofread the docs...
[06:51] <dabaR> Stuff like that. Get some experience with a GSoC project. Maybe do one myself next year.
[06:52] <dabaR> And both of those projects were suggested by the same guy, encompass.
[06:52] <dabaR> Both were his ideas, afaik.
[09:13] <ajmitch> hi highvoltage :)
[09:13] <highvoltage> hi ajmitch :)
[09:13] <highvoltage> ajmitch: that was supposed to be a "/join #edubuntu" ;)
[09:13] <ajmitch> I know ;)
[09:57] <cbx33> bbl guys
[09:57] <cbx33> ;)
[10:10] <cbx33> guys
[10:10] <cbx33> I need an A3 printer for LTSP environment
[10:10] <cbx33> can anyone recommend anything?
[10:11] <dabaR> cbx33: You are the mentor for PyStart, right? Are you also the mentor for the other project?
[10:12] <cbx33> dabaR: just pystart
[10:12] <cbx33> which other one were you talking about?
[10:12] <dabaR> Cool. There was an idea by encompass that was? accepted for a grading program.
[10:13] <cbx33> yes
[10:13] <dabaR> You are not the mentor for that one, though?
[10:13] <cbx33> no
[10:14] <dabaR> K. Well, I am Dan, and I am interested in participating in the PyStart project, by helping with quality assurance, and perhaps contributing some code. Is that acceptable under the GSoC program?
[10:14] <cbx33> tbph I'm not sure, though......
[10:14] <cbx33> on the coding part
[10:15] <cbx33> once GSoC is over......we'd love to have help on it
[10:15] <ajmitch> hey cbx33 :)
[10:16] <dabaR> I read the faq and terms on the GSoC page, and it seems that is perfectly fine. No need to answer now, if you are not sure, just thought I would let you know.
[10:16] <cbx33> dabaR: I will talk to the GSoC admins now
[10:17] <dabaR> Tue Apr 24 03:20:24 CDT 2007
[10:17] <cbx33> not here it's not
[10:17] <cbx33> ajmitch: Hey dude
[10:17] <cbx33> howz it going?
[10:17] <dabaR> Just so you know why if I do not reply right away.
[10:24] <dabaR> cbx33: Have you noticed this post? http://groups.drupal.org/node/3621 It could be a useful read for encompass. It is linked on the GSoC blog, as an example of what could be done by May 28. I am aware that encompass is planning/doing most of it.
[10:25] <dabaR> cbx33: also, I am curious about the post by the person that replied to encompass' post to the -devel list, about using gettext to allow for I18N, and L10N. Is gettext something that is commonly used within Edubuntu?
[10:30] <cbx33> hmmm
[10:30] <cbx33> well tbph
[10:30] <cbx33> there havn't been many educational apps developed by the edubutnu community
[10:31] <dabaR> but there are members that are familiar with some of the code. I bet someone knows the answer. I can find out, thanks.
[10:31] <dabaR> I can just read the source, even ;)
[10:31] <cbx33> translation should be an issue at all
[10:31] <cbx33> get text isn't hard from what I've heard ;)
[10:31] <cbx33> but tbh I've never used it
[10:32] <dabaR> K. Good night. I will leave this open, so let me know when you find out what kind of help is acceptable.
[10:32] <cbx33> dabaR: well
[10:32] <cbx33> I've just finished speaking to the admin
[10:32] <cbx33> if you have a few minutes?
[10:32] <dabaR> Yup
[10:32] <cbx33> right
[10:32] <cbx33> so....
[10:32] <cbx33> I will have to talk to encompass about this, but
[10:33] <cbx33> if we are able to create pystart as a seperate entity,
[10:33] <cbx33> then it is possible for him to write the bits that are covered by GSoC
[10:33] <cbx33> and you to write....extensions to that
[10:33] <cbx33> but
[10:34] <cbx33> we will also require testing
[10:34] <cbx33> beta testing and feedback will be very important
[10:34] <cbx33> and it's probaable that translation won't feature within Jasons spec
[10:34] <cbx33> so...it could be an area that needs help
[10:34] <cbx33> I will chat to Jason when I get a sec
[10:35] <cbx33> we are supposed to be having our weekly meeting soon
[10:35] <cbx33> ;)
[10:35] <dabaR> I don't get something here. I find it strange that an open source project would not be open to everyone to develop. But, rules are rules. We will see as it goes along what is acceptable. And I can still read all the code, and that.
[10:35] <cbx33> no no
[10:35] <cbx33> it's not like that at all
[10:35] <cbx33> Google have to see what the students have done
[10:35] <cbx33> it has to be clearly defined
[10:36] <cbx33> so...
[10:36] <cbx33> like...X wrote a divX plugin for mplayer etc
[10:36] <cbx33> it can't be...here are some diffs
[10:36] <ajmitch> nor is the mentor going to be coding half of it ;)
[10:36] <cbx33> indeed
[10:36] <dabaR> Right. What I am envisioning is X led the development of a divX plugin for mplayer
[10:37] <cbx33> no
[10:37] <cbx33> it's Google Summer of Code.....the student does all the coding
[10:37] <dabaR> A-ha.
[10:37] <dabaR> OK. Well, nice to meet you ^_^
[10:37] <cbx33> mentors are there for direction quality control and assistance if the student gets stuck
[10:37] <cbx33> but
[10:37] <ajmitch> & helping them integrate into the community
[10:37] <cbx33> indeed
[10:37] <cbx33> thanks ajmitch
[10:38] <cbx33> but there is no reason why you can't help out on it, if you wish to
[10:38] <cbx33> it just may not be hard and fast coding
[10:38] <dabaR> Right. I understand.
[10:38] <cbx33> not till the GSoC portion is over any who
[10:38] <cbx33> make sense?
[10:38] <dabaR> Completely.
[10:38] <cbx33> good
[10:38] <ajmitch> once that part is over, it's wide open for everyone
[10:38] <cbx33> ;)
[10:38] <cbx33> I'm hoping once it's open more people will jump in
[10:38] <ajmitch> reminds me that I should get back to people on the patches for authtool, if I see them on irc
[10:39] <dabaR> What about a suite of unit tests for the code? Sorry to keep you.
[10:39] <cbx33> well
[10:39] <cbx33> infact
[10:39] <cbx33> writing some of the content for the release would be great
[10:39] <cbx33> I don't see that as infringing at all
[10:39] <cbx33> there will be some lessons needed
[10:39] <cbx33> etc ;)
[10:39] <cbx33> so that pystart has some files to use to show
[10:42] <cbx33> once the framework is in place, that'll be something that can start
[10:42] <cbx33> dabaR: can you drop me a mail....
[10:42] <cbx33> so i can mail you when things are at that stage
[10:42] <dabaR> What framework?
[10:43] <cbx33> wel...
[10:43] <cbx33> the lesson files will be in some kind of xml format
[10:43] <cbx33> but Jason is still designing that
[10:44] <dabaR> is googlemail(in your contact page on the blog site) a spam trap for gmail?
[10:45] <dabaR> Do I translate googlemail to gmail in other words.
[10:50] <dabaR> I have been talking with encompass through gmail. I instructed him on how to set up a dynamic DNS host name for his computer. I am not sure I will be interested in creating the lessons, but you can email me. I am definitely interested in what contributions are welcomed. I am a CS student, though, so there is a limited number of things I am interested in within the project.
[10:50] <dabaR> cbx33:
[12:33] <cbx33> ping ogra
[12:33] <cbx33> one last quick question
[12:33] <cbx33> for the book
[12:33] <cbx33> the bootfile name
[12:33] <cbx33> ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
[12:34] <ogra> you are missing a slash
[12:34] <ogra> filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"
[12:34] <ogra> err
[12:34] <ogra> filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
[12:40] <cbx33> yeh
[12:40] <cbx33> but in the chapter it was written as
[12:41] <cbx33>  ltsp/pxelinux.0
[12:41] <cbx33> hmmm
[12:41] <cbx33> for a windows machine that works
[12:41] <cbx33> i mean without the slahs
[12:41] <cbx33> but i need the i386
[12:41] <cbx33> ;)
[02:19] <Toyito> Hi there
[02:20] <Toyito> this is my first time here anibody there?????
[02:21] <ogra> only 39 people :)
[02:22] <Toyito> oopss
[02:22] <Toyito> ha ha ha
[02:22] <Toyito> hey can u help me pls...
[02:22] <Toyito> i have a little problem whit Edubuntu Feisty...
[02:22] <ogra> shoot
[02:23] <Toyito> ok i have a fresh install...alll works fine but i dont have sound on Flash in the thin clients....(H)
[02:24] <Toyito> i have system sound but not in flash.....
[02:29] <Toyito> ??????
[02:29] <ogra> hmm
[02:37] <ogra> flash should just use alsa ...
[02:40] <Toyito> yes....in Feisty my thin clients are using Alsa
[02:41] <ogra> yup, i know i implemented it :)
[02:41] <ogra> i wonder why flash doesnt do that
[02:49] <ogra> looks like a bug in flash to me ...
[02:49] <ogra> it should pick that up
[02:52] <Toyito> yup and i am in a big problem....my boos want to make a presentation of the new lab...:-S
[02:52] <Toyito> any tip?
[02:53] <Toyito> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=420299&highlight=Feisty+flash
[02:53] <Toyito> other like me...
[02:54] <Toyito> hey Ogra what do you know a way to fix flash sound in Edgy?
[02:54] <ogra> well, thats running an 32bit firefox an amd64 ... completely different prob
[02:54] <ogra> flash sound in edgy worked fine afaik
[02:55] <ogra> at least i never had problems here
[02:55] <ogra> and there are no bugs about it
[02:55] <Toyito> i think this is my problem....i have an AMD 64bits machine as server....im installing now on a P IV....
[02:55] <ogra> oh
[02:55] <Toyito> he...a little mistake......
[02:55] <ogra> how did you get flash on there at all ?
[02:56] <Toyito> just installing from Synaptic
[02:56] <Toyito> im using i386 arch...hey but in the AMD flash sound is ok on the server
[02:57] <ogra> ah, ok
[02:57] <Toyito> just tcs have problems
[02:57] <ogra> thats not related to the amd64 then
[02:57] <ogra> if you run the i386 distro
[02:57] <Toyito> ok
[02:58] <Toyito> im running the i386 distro on an AMD 64 machine, do u think this is a problem?
[02:58] <ogra> no
[02:59] <Toyito> so?
[02:59] <ogra> that actually the best you can do unless you have more than 4G of RAM in the amd65
[02:59] <ogra> *64
[02:59] <Toyito> ok...i only have 2Gb.
[03:01] <ogra> well, its definately a bug in flash, i fear there is not much i can do about it right away ...
[03:01] <ogra> i'll look into it if i can find a workaround or so ...
[03:03] <ogra> at least since you say all other sounds work as expected ...
[03:09] <Toyito> ok thanks a lot
[03:09] <Toyito> ill be waiting for any help
[03:12] <bddebian> Heya
[03:12] <Toyito> hey
[03:12] <bddebian> Hello Toyito
[03:13] <Toyito> Hello
[03:53] <Toyito> any help on Feisty flash soun on thin clients???
[04:10] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:10] <Toyito> morning
[04:11] <Toyito> did you get sound on thin clients using fiesty????
[04:37] <sbalneav> Yep, they work for me
[05:10] <th1a> Hi RichEd.
[05:10] <RichEd> hi tom ...
[05:10] <RichEd> looking forward to meeting you in the flesh
[05:10] <th1a> I have a couple questions about the summit.
[05:10] <ogra> hey tom
[05:10] <th1a> Indeed.  You too.
[05:10] <RichEd> sure ... fire away
[05:10] <th1a> Hi ogra.
[05:11] <th1a> How long is my SchoolTool talk?
[05:11] <th1a> ogra: Yes, the two of you have a lot to talk about.
[05:11] <ogra> great :)
[05:11] <ogra> lookig forward to that ...
[05:11] <th1a> I didn't want to be stuck trying to explain the issues in Zope 3 component packaging.
[05:11] <ogra> i was very sad we couldnt ship shooltool this release .... that shouldnt happen again in the future
[05:12] <th1a> ogra: Yes, that's the goal.
[05:12] <ogra> well, feisty is out ... lets not moan about spiled milk ;)
[05:12] <ogra> *spilled
[05:12] <th1a> We just had our head down writing code while the packaging issues steadily piled up.
[05:12] <RichEd> th1a: you can do a 30 min presentation to a general audience, 10 mins q&a
[05:12] <ogra> we'll do better in gutsy
[05:12] <th1a> ogra: This summit should help.  Plus we've got a lot more working code now!
[05:13] <ogra> yay
[05:13] <RichEd> and then you can also have a BOF discussion session with the technical track ... either in UES or in UDS
[05:13] <LaserJock> RichEd: is there a schedule up for UES yet?
[05:13] <th1a> RichEd: OK, so the 30 minute talk is more to educators, administrators, etc.
[05:13] <RichEd> i.e. 30 mins sales pitch ... to get the demand up
[05:13] <th1a> RichEd: OK.
[05:14] <RichEd> and then a roll up sleeves, what needs to be done by who, when to deliver
[05:14] <RichEd> LaserJock: need to have it done by 3:00 pm tomorrow my time
[05:14] <RichEd> that will be my morning
[05:14] <RichEd> (time spoken for)
[05:14] <ogra> whats that in utc ?
[05:14] <th1a> RichEd: You had also initially mentioned doing a talk on "open source in ed in the US," which I have been planning in my head, but I guess it isn't on the agenda now.
[05:14] <ogra> i have a talk on the openweek tomorrow
[05:15] <LaserJock> any of you guys getting to seville on the evening of the 2nd?
[05:15] <RichEd> LaserJock: yep most should be ... I will
[05:16] <LaserJock> I was hoping somebody would be taking that same Madrid->Seville filght
[05:16] <LaserJock> *flight
[05:16] <RichEd> LaserJock: I'll be in seville from the monday evening via paris ... no help
[05:17] <th1a> RichEd: If you'd like me to give a short talk on that topic, I can, but I haven't spent serious time on it, so I won't be offended if it doesn't fit the schedule now.
[05:18] <RichEd> th1a: we'll have lightning talks as the last session on each day ... 5-10 mins ... to stimulate debate and chats around the dinner table / bar
[05:18] <RichEd> no prep needed, just a forum to raise ideas / concerns / onservations
[05:18] <RichEd> so that would fit well there
[05:18] <LaserJock> "Edubuntu rocks! kthxbye" ;-)
[05:19] <th1a> OK, I'll do that.  Do I need to sign up on the wiki?
[05:19] <RichEd> I'll be updating the wiki tomorrow:
[05:19] <RichEd> attendees
[05:19] <RichEd> agenda
[05:19] <RichEd> BOFs
[05:19] <RichEd> etc.
[05:19] <RichEd> Will add you there
[05:19] <th1a> RichEd: Thanks.
[05:20] <th1a> ogra: Another thing we'll need to talk about is SIF -- I'm working on a "Zone Integration Server" that only uses stuff in Ubuntu core (mod_python, sqlite, simpletal, etc.) so it should be easy to package.
[05:21] <ogra> th1a, i dont mid iling main inclusion reports if you need other stuff :)
[05:21] <ogra> *filing
[05:22] <th1a> ogra: Actually, these are turning out to be excellent choices anyhow.  Also, everything is in Fedora and probably will be on the OLPC server, so it makes sense all around.
[05:22] <ogra> cool
[05:46] <ogra> :)
[06:41] <dabaR> Hi,.
[06:48] <LaserJock> hi dabaR
[06:48] <dabaR> hi
[08:25] <LaserJock> ogra: you might find this interesting: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=420063
[08:27] <ogra> LaserJock, i have mail from upstream aready
[08:27] <ogra> *already
[08:28] <LaserJock> cool
[08:28] <LaserJock> I didn't quite get the license, but it seems like it might be suitable for at least Multiverse
[08:29] <ogra> yep
[08:29] <ogra> impara (the company behind it is from germany)
[08:34] <ogra> they complain about broken GL support in our package btw
[08:34] <LaserJock> in what package?
[08:34] <ogra> Wir benutzen
[08:34] <ogra> zur Zeit unsere eigene und nicht die Ubuntu-Squeak-Version, weil diese
[08:34] <ogra> Probleme mit OpenGL hat.
[08:35] <ogra> we are currently using our own squeak version because upstream has problems with OpenGL
[08:35] <ogra> s/upstream/the Ubuntu-Squeak-Version/
[08:35] <ogra> sorry
[08:37] <LaserJock> ah
[08:38] <LaserJock> well, our Squeak needs redone
[08:44] <ogra> yeah
[09:40] <bluekuja> cbx33: ping
[10:32] <lns> I know this is ubuntu-specific, but has anyone here upgraded 6.06 to 7.04 on a 64-bit architecture with 32-bit thin clients?
[11:00] <cliebow> lns: i believe you  will have  to  build the client on a 32 b it  machine if  clients are 32 bit..so  update feisty  on server then download perhaps the chroot tarball and dump it in /opt/ltsp
[11:16] <lns> cliebow, when I installed Edgy I used a commandline parm. for building the chroot, something like --arch-i386 - would that work, you think?
[11:16] <lns> Can't remember the command to build it, i think it was build-client-chroot or similar
[11:18] <lns> ahh, ltsp-build-client


[07:34] <greg-g> well fuck: http://www.fosspatents.com/2014/05/oracle-wins-android-java-copyright.html
[07:34] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/TOawcT - FOSS Patents: Oracle wins Android-Java copyright appeal: API code copyrightable, new trial on fair use
[13:13] <rick_h_> pretty much
[13:14] <rick_h_> the world is heading down hill
[13:16] <rick_h_> man, feel like I took sleeping pills last night so groggy and hard to get up today
[13:17] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:17] <rick_h_> morning
[13:17] <cmaloney> rick_h_: I think you gave yourself permission to sleep last night. :)
[13:18] <rick_h_> gotta love the move to github https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pulse shows how it's been heh
[13:18] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/2ia208 - Pulse · juju/juju-gui · GitHub
[13:18] <cmaloney> Either that or you were "celebrating" a little too much
[13:18] <rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, went to bed by 9:30
[13:18] <rick_h_> first time in weeks and weeks
[13:56] <jrwren> yeah
[13:56] <jrwren> oracle--
[13:56] <jrwren> if this goes to SCOTUS and goes the wrong way it could be VERY bad.
[13:57] <jrwren> imagine ATT invoking copyright on its early unix API
[13:57] <jrwren> and (C) is for 95yrs or whatever, so there would be no more free software.
[13:57] <jrwren> no more WINE
[13:57] <jrwren> no more Mono
[13:58] <jrwren> no more lots of things.
[13:58] <jrwren> GAH! I am getting angry again just thinking about it.
[13:59] <greg-g> jrwren: :) :) g'morning
[14:07] <greg-g> jrwren: hahaha re .NET retweet ;)
[15:44] <cmaloney> Putting my slides together for Linux Gaming
[15:44] <cmaloney> (Giving this talk at MUG)
[16:03] <rick_h_> oh, I should be doing slides
[16:26] <shakes808> Morning all.
[16:56] <cmaloney> Hey shakes808
[16:57] <cmaloney> What's "shakes-ing?"
[17:17] <shakes808> Not a whole lot. Just was glancing over that oracle android article. Glancing turned into glazed over trying to understand it
[17:43] <cmaloney> Well, here's the simplified version
[17:43] <cmaloney> Oracle needs to die in a fire.
[17:43] <cmaloney> :)
[17:58] <shakes808> Alright.   Sounds like they are trying to take Foss away?
[18:45] <shakes808> cmaloney, what are putting together for linux gaming?
[18:47] <shakes808> jrwren, what are you saying about Mono? Is that due to the Oracle thing? Are you referring to MonoDevelop?
[22:50] <cmaloney> Evening


[01:23] <lifeless> slangasek: poke mvo if you would; otherwise remind me during the week
[01:26] <slangasek> ok
[02:33]  * calc uploaded openoffice.org 1:2.3.0-1ubuntu5.2 to gutsy-propsed
[02:33] <calc> er gutsy-proposed
[02:34] <calc> fixes 11 bugs :)
[02:35] <somerville32> calc, Did you file an SRU?
[02:37] <calc> somerville32: i reused the SRU for 5.1 since it was defective
[02:37] <calc> or am attemping to reuse it, heh
[02:38] <somerville32> calc, Are you a MOTU?
[02:38] <calc> somerville32: core-dev
[02:38] <somerville32> Cool
[02:39] <calc> to bad pitti isn't awake or he could accept it for me
[02:39] <calc> slangasek: do you do accept SRUs?
[02:39] <calc> er remove second do
[02:39] <calc> hmm looks like just pitti and cjwatson do them according to lp
[02:43] <calc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/153132 <- debdiff is there if anyone is interested in what i have fixed for the new upload
[02:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153132 in openoffice.org "Openoffice splash screen includes Ubuntu logo" [Medium,In progress]
[02:44] <calc> i fixed the broffice.org not installing bug, the bug where forms/dictionary/etc don't work without openoffice.org-base installed, the python-uno can't be imported bug, the gtk themes crash OOo bug, and proper bitmap depth for splash screen bug
[05:08] <LucidFox> I tried building a package build-depending on sun-java6-jdk, and got this error: "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented"
[05:11] <RAOF> Yup, that's right.  You get an EULA in the postinst.  I forget if people can get around that - you might want to check #ubuntu-motu, too.
[10:09] <nxvl> is someone here?
[10:09] <nxvl> i need someone to help me with a give-back
[10:12] <Mithrandir> nxvl: sure, which package?
[10:18] <geser> Mithrandir: is uploading possible right now or should I wait till LP is back?
[10:18] <StevenK> Wait until Launchpad is back.
[10:26] <nxvl> Mithrandir: advi
[10:28] <geser> nxvl: I asked Hobbsee yesterday to give it back
[10:31] <nxvl> geser: oh! thnx :D
[10:32] <nxvl> geser: but it's still on the FTBFS list
[10:32] <nxvl> how often it refreshed?
[10:32] <persia> nxvl: That gets updated about once a day, but it's always best to check in LP, as the build queues might be lengthy.
[10:33]  * Hobbsee waves
[10:33] <persia> More verbosely, if you're looking at a FTBFS, you'll want to make sure there's not a pending build prior to hunting too deeply.
[10:33] <Hobbsee> build queues are lenghty for i386
[10:33] <Fujitsu> Morning, Hobbsee.
[10:33] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The new -intel seems to be stable.
[10:34] <Fujitsu> I've been running it all day without issues.
[10:34] <nxvl> persia: where on LP? at the release information on the package page?
[10:34] <Kmos> palmer is broken since 20th
[10:34] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[10:35] <geser> nxvl: check the build status for the package (once LP is back)
[10:35] <persia> nxvl: Errr..  Something like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds and then search for "All states" and the package name.  There's a better URL, but I usually find it by trial and error, and LP is being maintained now.
[10:36] <nxvl> oh! thnx i didn't knew it exist :D
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: excellent!
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: downloading it now
[10:36] <Hobbsee> persia: i dont think there's much of a better URL
[10:37] <nxvl> sun is now shining and don't want to sleep even a little
[10:37] <nxvl> :S
[10:37] <persia> Hobbsee: There is a package specific build URL, which doesn't require a querystring.
[10:37] <Hobbsee> persia: oh, that's a point
[10:37] <persia> (mind you, I don't think there are any links to that URL anywhere)
[10:38] <Hobbsee> no, of course not.
[10:38] <Hobbsee> if links were there, it'd be easy to find things :)
[10:38] <Mithrandir> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/advi/1.6.0-13/ shows you the build and their statuses
[10:39] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: wow, it does seem better.  is scrolling better too, or is it just me?
[10:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Just you, I think.
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Other than scrolling, it is working quite admirably.
[10:58] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nice.  oh, and the redraw's still slow, and creates artifacts
[10:59] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You mean creation of new windows not updating textures in time?
[10:59] <Fujitsu> Or the occasion where bits of the desktop will appear in the middle of the screen?
[11:00] <Hobbsee> the former
[11:14] <nxvl> is there any mailling list where i can ask for give-backs or only here?
[11:16] <TheMuso> nxvl: Usually here is only where its done, and usually only during the week.
[11:16] <TheMuso> nxvl: As it is, LP is still down I think.
[11:17] <nxvl> mm
[11:17] <nxvl> ok
[11:17] <nxvl> then a geve-back is needed for apcupsd
[11:20] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it appears to be back
[11:20] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: ah ok.
[11:20] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh, and it's when buildd-admins are around
[11:20] <Hobbsee> which, as you say, is usually during the week.
[11:21] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you using -synaptics?
[11:21] <nxvl> is there any build-admins list out there?
[11:22] <Hobbsee> nxvl: lp.net/~buildd-admins
[11:22] <Hobbsee> iirc
[11:22] <Hobbsee> nxvl: it's ~launchpad-buildd-admins
[11:23] <Hobbsee> nxvl: given back
[11:23] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
[11:25] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, just wonderinf if you had a fix for the problem I was seeing. I'd manually added the synaptics stuff to a new xorg.conf, and the USB mouse was going crazy, but copying an extra couple of lines from the old config seems to have fixed that.
[11:25] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i've not modified it at all, WFM.
[11:26] <Hobbsee> although i dont have a usb mouse connected
[11:26] <Fujitsu> You've probably got an old config. The new debconf scripts seem to not detect -synaptics.
[11:27] <Hobbsee> probably.
[11:28] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Ah right. Goes to show how rarely I have to do it. :p
[11:29] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: :P
[11:30] <tjaalton> Hobbsee: synaptics was dropped from dexconf because input-hotplug should cover that. too bad that it's not actually used yet
[11:31] <tjaalton> (commit by debian, fwiw)
[11:31] <Hobbsee> right
[11:32] <tjaalton> also, you coud try 'Option "AccelMethod" "XAA"' in your Device-section to see if the bugs you are seeing are because of EXA
[11:34] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: I'll try XAA now that I have synaptics properly working.
[11:34] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: great
[11:36]  * TheMuso decides to upgrade to hardy on a non-critical box.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: It much better, but still not perfect.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> I can scroll PDFs now!
[11:39] <Fujitsu> +is
[11:40] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: did your touchpad work at all before you made your changes?
[11:41] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: Yes, but without scrolling or double-tapping.
[11:41] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: ok, in that case synaptics can wait for input-hotplug ;)
[11:42] <Fujitsu> When I copied the synaptics section verbatim from the previous xorg.conf, events from my USB mouse were all detected twice, but that was fairly easily fixed.
[11:42] <tjaalton> yep, that was one of the reasons it was dropped
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:51] <Hobbsee> tjaalton: ROCK ON!
[12:51] <Hobbsee> tjaalton: using XAA goes back to working fine
[17:47] <ogra> hehe
[17:47] <ogra> LaserRock :)
[17:47] <LaserJock> ;-)
[17:47] <ogra> did jorge show you the pic ?
[17:48] <ogra> oh, i just notice he blogged it ...
[17:48]  * ogra should read planet more regulary :)
[17:54] <LaserJock> ogra: hehe
[18:11]  * lamont wonders who retried ebug-http
[18:51] <Raff7> hi
[19:10] <Jooles> Hi all. Anyone know (roughly) how long it's likely to be until Xorg 7.3 is gonna be in the ubuntu packages?
[19:39] <tormod> Jooles: it's in Hardy already.
[19:40] <Jooles> so it's downloadable using the package manager? I haven't played around with ubuntu much you see and I'd rather not compile it from source as I'm setting the machine up for a friend who's not used linux
[19:42] <Chipzz> it's in the development release
[19:42] <Chipzz> not in the stable
[19:46] <Jooles> cool. Thanks guys  = )
[22:36] <soren> Refresh my memory: Is it ok for source packages to contain blobs that are built from free software, but not built from source in that package?  Example: The kvm package contains a version of bochsbios with a few tiny patches applied and built by kvm upstream and shipped in their tarball.
[22:37] <soren> I'm guessing: hell no.
[22:37] <somerville32> soren, Maybe in multiverse?
[22:38] <soren> Sure, but that's not really interesting at all :)
[22:38] <LaserJock> soren: it's the bochsbios binary?
[22:38] <soren> LaserJock: Well, it's built from the bochsbios source with a few tiny patches applied.
[22:39] <soren> LaserJock: So no, it doesn't match a file from the bochsbios package.
[22:39] <slangasek> soren: it's a supportability issue, surely?
[22:39] <soren> slangasek: Indeed.
[22:39] <soren> slangasek: I've changed the bochs package to build this special version of it, and having qemu depend on that, and I intend to do the same for kvm..
[22:39] <LaserJock> soren: well, but is there source for it or no?
[22:40] <lifeless> soren: thats the right thing to do
[22:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I would think so
[22:40] <soren> I just want to know if it's kosher as per Debian policy, so I know what to put in my bug report to Debian.
[22:40] <soren> LaserJock: Not in the kvm package. The kvm package has the patch, the bochs package has the rest of the source.
[22:41] <lifeless> soren: the key question is 'is it a licence violation'
[22:41] <soren> LaserJock: Allegedly, if you apply said patch to the bochs source and build it, you get that very blob.
[22:41] <soren> lifeless: It's not a policy violation?
[22:41] <lifeless> soren: that is, if the blob is e.g. a derived binary it will trigger GPL protection
[22:41] <lifeless> soren: .jpg's and other things are built, its still an open freaking sore wound
[22:41] <soren> lifeless: That's an issue, too. Agreed. however, that's not what I'm interested in right now.
[22:42] <lifeless> soren: if the blob is derived from bochs but the source for it is not delivered when you apt-get source kvm, then its a violation of the GPL (assuming bochsbios is gpl'd)
[22:42] <lifeless> soren: and this takes precendence over policy :)
[22:42] <soren> I'll rephrase my question: Should I just tell the debian maintainer that I disagree with his approach, or should I pound him in the head with some part of Debian Policy or the dfsg or something?
[22:43] <slangasek> oh, if it's the fault of the Debian maintainer, pound him in the head
[22:43] <lifeless> soren: FWICT pound him in the head with the GPL.
[22:43] <soren> lifeless: That too :)
[22:43] <slangasek> soren: DFSG says that we have to ship source for all programs in Debian main
[22:44] <soren> slangasek: Right.
[22:45] <LaserJock> slangasek: even if that source is split into different packages?
[22:45] <soren> slangasek: But depending on how you interpret that, you could argue that the source is somewhere in Debian main, so all is good. I wouldn't agree to thtat, though.
[22:46] <soren> slangasek: ...so to do the right thing in terms of supportability and such, you could just change the build system to not use it, but in terms of complying with policy, would it also be necessary to repack the tarball without any blobs at all?
[22:46] <soren> er... policy and the gpl.. :)
[22:47] <slangasek> soren: hmm, in the past where I've had binary objects in an upstream tarball, I've stripped them out.  If the code is GPL, this is preventative license compliance, because in the future you may not be able to reproduce that blob from sources available in the archive
[22:48] <lifeless> soren: no, you can't argue that its somewhere in main
[22:48] <soren> lifeless: Didn't think so.
[22:48] <lifeless> soren: because if you follow that argument, 'apt-get source bash' has to download all the source for all of main to match the gpl's distribution at same time requirement
[22:50] <slangasek> lifeless: well, in effect, "apt-get source bash && apt-get build-dep bash"...
[22:51] <slangasek> headers and whatnot
[22:51] <lifeless> slangasek: in this case it's apt-get source kvm && apt-get source bochbios, which is different.
[22:51] <lifeless> slangasek: reproducible binaries and used-source are different arguments, but I think we're in basic agreement
[22:52] <soren> lifeless: biochs is lgpl, by the way. That doesn't change anything in this respect, afaict.
[22:52] <soren> lifeless: bochs, I mean.
[22:52] <slangasek> lifeless: yes
[22:52] <lifeless> soren: no, it won't, because we're not linking to it, its the output itself thats being used,
[22:53] <soren> lifeless slangasek: thanks guys. I'll send an e-mail to the Debian maintainer explaining the errors of his ways :)


[14:42] <afridi> hi
[16:21] <scotty^> Is it appropriate to mark bug 1066147 as "Wont Fix"?
[16:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066147 in xorg "No Unity, and Compiz isnt running correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066147
[16:21] <scotty^> If so, can someone please do so.  I don't have the privileges.
[16:57] <scotty^> Is it appropriate to mark bug 1066147 as "Wont Fix"?
[16:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066147 in xorg "No Unity, and Compiz isnt running correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066147
[16:57] <scotty^> If so, can someone please do so.  I don't have the privileges.
[16:58] <bcurtiswx> hi scotty^ , what would you do if you had permissions and why?
[17:00] <scotty^> I was wondering if it is appropriate to mark bug 1066147 as "Wont Fix"
[17:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066147 in xorg "No Unity, and Compiz isnt running correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066147
[17:00] <scotty^> See my comment #2 on the bug as to why.
[17:03] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, it's my assumption that you're trying to learn. Based on your comment why would you say it's Won't fix.  If i'm wrong I can just give you the quick answer. j/w
[17:05] <scotty^> It's a closed source driver and AMD are not going to be providing a fix, so doesn't that mean that there is nothing that Ubuntu/Canonical can do?
[17:08] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, yes I think thats a fair assesment. It seems like he's already fixed his issue with removing fglrx so there's no need top provide the right driver to use. I will mark as Won't Fix. Good job
[17:08] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, done
[17:11] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, FYI, if there was still an issue with his graphics not working then a bug would still be present and you wouldn't be able to won't fix it.
[17:11] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, you would have to reword the bug to fit the true issue.
[17:11] <scotty^> Thanks
[17:12] <bcurtiswx> scotty^, yw
[18:52] <penguin42> hitting the sort by 'title' on bug reports is entertaining


[18:37] <MadRabbit320> Hello all, TB 17.0.4 now asks for my password each time it opens or sends. Previous ver's didn't. How do I stop it?
[18:39] <MadRabbit320> btw, #thunderbird tells me "invite only"...what's up with that?


[01:51] <nigelb> mhall119: How's SCALE? :)
[17:04] <mhall119> nigelb: scale was fantastic, as always
[17:04] <mhall119> nigelb: But I need a conference where I get to meetup with you again
[17:31] <pleia2> ++
[23:21] <ahoneybun> mhall119: do you know if we have anyone going to LFNW for Ubuntu?
[23:21] <ahoneybun> ie a booth