[00:00] <JontheEchidna> not much has gone on in bzr since when he committed the jaunty stuff to 4.3 I don't think
[00:00] <Riddell> nothing has
[00:04] <a|wen> Riddell: i get a systemsettings crash every time i try to edit a printer ... dunno if it is just me; but could maybe be due to the new cups, so something needs some updating
[00:07] <Quintasan> gnight
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> good night
[00:11] <nixternal> Riddell: TerminateServer=True in /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc allows you to log out
[00:11] <nixternal> it is commented out currently
[00:11] <Riddell> !
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> it's been like that since 4.0
[00:12] <Riddell> a|wen: unlikely to be just you, do report the backtrace on bugs.kde.org
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> I think it might be working around the problem rather than solving it, but if it's the only way
[00:13] <Riddell> mm, right
[00:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you havn't been able to log out since 4.0?
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> ancient nvidia drivers have had an x crash since 4.0
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> it was working for a bit in karmic
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> and I have no clue how since I was on intel
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> but I do know that terminateserver has been set to false, and some people can log out sucessfully with it that way
[00:15] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: what is the problem we're trying to solve?
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> making log out work for everybody. If this is the only way then I'd go with it even if it is a workaround
[00:16] <a|wen> Riddell: okay, i'll try to get some backtraces and report them
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> probably terminating the server instead of reusing it makes things a bit slower, but it's better than not being able to log out
[00:16] <a|wen> oh ... has worked fine for me all the time; graphic card dependant?
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> seems so
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> intel is affected, as well as ancient nvidia
[00:17]  * a|wen is on (in most other regards crappy) ati
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> for TerminateServer:
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1455	Comment:
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1456	 Restart instead of resetting the local &X-Server; after session exit.
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1457	 Use it if the server leaks memory etc.
[00:19] <a|wen> as long as it doesn't gives problems for others, i think it is an okay solution ... kdm seems to restart pretty fast anyway, compared to a few releases ago
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1458	Description:
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1459	 Whether &kdm; should restart the local &X-Server; after session exit instead
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1460	 of resetting it. Use this if the &X-Server; leaks memory or crashes the system
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1461	 on reset attempts.
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> looks like we need to use this if there are known X crashes... ha
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> like we could ever expect there not to be X crashes
[00:20] <a|wen> doesn't x restart itself if it detects a crash; i thought it did
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> one must assume there is a silly reason for it not doing so during a logout
[00:21] <JontheEchidna> maybe ksmserver detects such things
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> maybe not, but if they coded a forced restart of X there must be some stupid reason
[00:23] <a|wen> are you sure it actually crashes and not just stalls ;)
[00:23] <a|wen> "legacy" ... i'm pretty sure the auto-restart on crash in the x-server is a somewhat new addition
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> the crash on logout for intel drivers is fixed, but for some reason X doesn't restart unless you force it to
[00:24] <nixternal> heh, ARch is using our notifications :)
[00:25] <a|wen> nixternal: the ayatana ones?
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> but ayatana is the spawn of the devil!
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> and arch is the holiest of binary distributions
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> :P
[00:26] <nixternal> a|wen: yes
[00:26] <a|wen> :P
[00:26] <nixternal> http://chakra-project.org/code/index.php/view/packages:/core/kdebase-workspace/backport_fdo_notifications.patch
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> If Arch fanbois are hardcore... I don't want to encounter Chakra fans
[00:26] <a|wen> i actually find them very nice!
[00:26] <nixternal> even has agateau's name written all over it :)
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> eh, maybe it's not fair to generalize about distro fanboys
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> But if Arch users think they're elite... and then Chakra is an even eliter version of Arch....
[00:34] <nixternal> we only have a few more patches than opensuse does in kdebase-workspace..the rest we are like even...why do people say we ruin the experience by patching so much?
[00:34] <nixternal> it does seem that the Chakra project is pretty sane though on their patches
[00:34] <ScottK> nixternal: TerminateServer doesn't sound like a good thing for switching users though
[00:35] <nixternal> they have cherry picked the patches between Kubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE from what I can see just in kdebase-workspace
[00:35] <nixternal> ScottK: I have no clue, it allows me to log out
[00:35] <nixternal> I don't think the KDM issue is related to kdebase-workspace patches at all
[00:35] <ScottK> OK
[00:35] <nixternal> I build a patcheless kdebase-workspace and I still couldn't log out
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> I have a theory. We (hope that we) have a lot of users. With more users there is a higher chance of things going wrong, leading to a higher chance of people complaining from distro X. Complainers find each other on the internet and congregate. The more complainers that are found, the more certain they are that Kubuntu is the source of their problems, even if it is an upstream issue
[00:36] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> They try distro Y where by chance the issue does not occur, and hate distro X for life
[00:36] <ScottK> Thanks to opensuse 10.1 there is a zero percent chance of me using opensuse ever again
[00:36] <nixternal> well, I think we need to reaproach our patches for Lucid...it seems a bit crazy to have 43 patches just for kdebase-workspace
[00:37] <ScottK> This is in line with your theory JontheEchidna.
[00:37] <ScottK> nixternal: Agreed.
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> Less patches is definitely a good idea
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> If we could separate them out into debian, kubuntu and upstream cherrypick folders that would be awesome
[00:37] <nixternal> well, I was thinking, just for fun, that I would package up kdecore stuff w/o patches and then benchmark to see
[00:37] <nixternal> that way there we would at least have a base to compare against
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> That sort of thing has worked out great for the konversation package
[00:41] <JontheEchidna> we could use glxgears for a benchmark! :P
[00:42] <Sput> hmmm... Gentoo is still waiting for libindicate to lose its unnecessary gtk-build-time deps, after that we'll package it as well for people to try out :)
[00:43]  * Sput is sorta curious to figure out what agateau did to his Quassel
[00:43] <nixternal> probably the same thing with kopete...I get these nudges or people adding me, and the popup goes away before I can do anything, and then I go to kopete and there is nothing there
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> I see at least 3 patches in kdebase-runtime that could be upstreamed
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> the 6 fdo notifications patches are merged upstream, except for the discard actions patch
[00:51] <ScottK> And we don't enable that one by default.
[00:52] <Riddell> Sput: seriously?  gentoo is waiting for a build time dep change?  they really have a funny idea about users
[00:53] <Sput> Riddell: dragging in half of gnome for a lib that doesn't depend on gnome is not acceptable
[00:53] <Riddell> for developers!
[00:53] <Sput> Riddell: we're a source-based distro
[00:53] <Sput> so we can't just ship the binaries :)
[00:54] <Sput> so build-time deps actually matter for our users
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> don't all Gentoo users have quad core machines with 4 GB of RAM and 1TB hard drives?
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> (I joke)
[00:54] <Sput> yes, but that doesn't mean that all Gentoo users want to have half of gNOme installed :)
[00:55]  * Sput "fondly" remembers installing gNOme's nm-applet to configure networkmanager when knm wasn't ready yet, and having to install 83 packages for a tray applet
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> Oo
[00:56] <Sput> at least those were runtime deps :)
[00:57] <Sput> but build-time deps that are unnecessary (at least that's what agataeu told me, they're just required by the buildsys) won't pass through our QA
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> what are they using? GAutotools?
[00:58] <Sput> I have no idea, haven't looked at it myself
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> I would be very afraid if such a thing existed
[00:58] <Sput> prolly some unneeded autocrap checks
[00:58] <nixternal> have we been updating bzr at all for the core packages? I just ran a bzr pull on all of the directories and there were no updates..I don't remember doing an update recently to pull in changes
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> yeah, bzr is still in use
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> which package?
[00:59] <nixternal> I must of...heh, they are all udpated
[00:59] <nixternal> weird
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> :)
[01:00] <Sput> let's just say, if Canonical wants to have their inidicator stuff tried more widespread, they need to work on deployment and build system :)
[01:01] <Sput> afaik agateau opened a bug to that respect, so here's hoping they fix it soonish
[01:02]  * nixternal goes out to eat
[01:05]  * JontheEchidna lets kdebase-runtime continue to build and goes off to play some video games
[01:28]  * Sput rebuilds his KDE as well
[01:29] <Sput> four days is an eternity in KDE world.
[03:26] <nixternal> do we have a list of "MUST FIX NOW BUGS!"?
[03:27] <ScottK> IIRC the KDM one is one of the biggest, but let me find the  list.
[03:29] <ScottK> nixternal: We got KDM plus OOo save dialog and then:
[03:29] <ScottK> Some kcontrol modules missing translations
[03:29] <ScottK> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
[03:29] <ScottK> KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
[03:38] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:39] <nixternal> the KDM one is tricky
[03:41] <nixternal> since I am looking at the KDM stuff, I am going to go through the kdebase-workspace list
[03:45] <nixternal> are we honoring bugs in LP that deal with our PPA?
[03:46]  * nixternal fix releases it anyways
[04:10] <ScottK> If it's a real bug, sure
[04:11] <nixternal> I don't even remember what it was anymore, but I know I wasn't having that problem :)
[04:13]  * ScottK just spent some time looking at what Google had to say about Kubuntu Netbook.  It was all pretty good.
[04:18] <nixternal> stupid ass freenode
[04:24] <ScottK> That's pretty redundant.
[04:41] <rgreening> hey all
[04:41] <rgreening> just finished watchin SG-U on space :)
[04:41] <nixternal> wasabi foolio
[04:41] <rgreening> hehe
[04:41] <rgreening> kmail just crashed.. grr.
[04:42] <nixternal> hahaha
[04:42] <nixternal> mutt is running like a champ
[04:46]  * nixternal is being an ass and asking questions in bug reports and setting them to incomplete (59 days!)
[04:46] <nixternal> ;)
[05:28] <JontheEchidna> man... you rock nixternal. you should be an ass more often ;-)
[05:29] <JontheEchidna> by the way, the ksnapshot bug was fixed the 30th and made it in to 4.3.2
[05:29] <JontheEchidna> see ya'll tomorrow
[05:30] <nixternal> oh rock on
[05:30] <nixternal> g'nite
[05:31] <nixternal> i didn't figure it got backported in a day, KDE rocks!
[07:34] <Quintasan> hiho
[07:57] <markey> wow, giant updates today in karmic :)
[07:57] <markey> 230 MB
[08:04] <markey> is there any way to disable Apport completely?
[08:04] <markey> it comes up a lot, and I really don't need it
[08:06] <Quintasan> how come I need to run kbluetooth using sudo?
[08:07] <nixternal> hey, KDM...if you have one user, the user list doesn't show, but if you add another user, then the list shows...I am guessing this is expect behavior but I am not positive...anyone know?
[08:12] <markey> I've already set enabled=0
[08:13] <markey> in /etc/default/apport
[08:13] <markey> doesn't really help
[08:13] <markey> kdesudo comes up all the time for apport
[08:14] <nixternal> heh, same for everybody...hopefully it will be fixed soon as it is a bit of a mess
[09:17] <nixternal> kdebase-workspace cleaned up a bit...I am going to bed now
[09:17] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:45] <ulysses__> greetings, Can I have a question? so, yesterday was a meeting, nad some battle, for example kaffeine vs. dragon player
[10:45] <ulysses__> which video player was the winner?
[11:18] <a|wen> ulysses__: dragon player for karmic ... though kaffeine will be on the dvd as well (iirc)
[11:18] <ulysses__> a|wen: thanks
[14:37] <allee-k> KarmicUpgrades misses:  how to upgrade jaunty -> karmic without X (broken jaunty Xserver)  :(
[14:40] <a|wen> allee-k: do-release-upgrade should be the console way of doing upgrades
[14:50] <allee-k> a|wen: thx
[14:54] <allee-k> grbml. This laptop has black humor :(  now after dozends of tries and reboots, now that I know how-to-without-X, the Xserver started after rebooting :(
[15:05] <a|wen> hehe, never meddle with technology
[15:17] <ScottK> Clearly we need to make using the beta release sound more scary.
[15:18] <ScottK> Updates are wayyyy to slow
[15:23] <Nightrose> hehe
[15:24] <Nightrose> anyone working on getting amarok 2.2 final into karmic?
[15:25] <jussi01> grrr, why does pulse keep getting installed. pulse is of the devil...
[15:26] <ScottK> jussi01: aptitude why pulseaudio
[15:26] <jussi01> !info amarok karmic
[15:26] <ScottK> That's the one thing I use aptitude for
[15:28] <jussi01> ScottK: ahh. thanks. thats very cool.
[15:28] <jussi01> but puse is still evil...
[15:28] <ScottK> Back (hopefully) in a bit.  Need to reboot the server the core is on for a new kernel.
[15:28] <jussi01> pulse
[15:28] <jussi01> ScottK: see you soon
[15:36] <jussi01> ScottK: welcome back
[15:37] <ScottK> Thanks
[15:37] <jussi01> ScottK: you may want to put your nickserv pass as your server pass though, then you are identified before joining channels.
[15:37]  * ScottK keeps meaning to do that.
[15:38] <jussi01> ScottK: btw, I got around the whole phonon mess.... by using the cmake flag to not build with phonon... not ideal, but works.
[15:39] <ScottK> I'm not sure what was causing that as the quassel package builds fine without change
[15:41] <Quintasan> Riddelll: ping
[16:56] <Riddelll> hi Quintasan
[16:57] <Quintasan> Riddelll: I have recived the email regarding dooble, however I dunno what yayc is and how I'm supposed to include it :/
[17:14] <freinhard> hi!
[17:15] <freinhard> distupgrade failed with "ERROR SystemError from cache.commit(): installArchives() failed" in /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log
[17:16] <freinhard> /var/log/dpkg.log doesn't show any recent actions, so i guess nothing has been installed yet
[17:21] <Riddelll> Quintasan: I think ignore it
[17:21] <freinhard> as i close the message box that i should run dpkg --configure -a i get notified that the system upgrade was successfull but there were some errors. i guess that's plain sarcasm ;)
[17:22] <Riddelll> Quintasan: oh read now, well  if he's changing to GPL that's more interesting
[17:26] <Riddelll> Quintasan: just say you don't know  what it  is and there's no package of it  so that's not  possible
[17:26] <Riddelll> no point going even more out of  our way for  him
[18:01] <freinhard> hooray, FIXME in apt.cache.Cache *grr*
[18:01] <ScottK> Anyone having trouble with enabling compositing today?
[18:02] <ScottK> My mini 10v won't do desktop effects anymore
[18:04] <freinhard> i'd love to try, but can't upgrade.
[18:05] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:08] <freinhard> btw, what happened to the code.launchpad.net inteface? looks awful...
[18:12] <ScottK> freinhard: The usual thing when Launchpad developers decide to improve tings.
[18:13] <ScottK> Restarting the system didn't help either ...
[18:14] <freinhard> must be a serius problem. bugs that don't get fixed by rebooting are tough ones ;)
[18:15] <ScottK> For the moment, I'm going to suspect nixternal's kdm logout work around.
[18:20] <ScottK> In other news, it's really annoying to have a 6 hour battery life when you want to test the low power suspend warning.  Anyone know a manual way to trigger that?
[18:20] <ScottK> Bingo.
[18:21] <ScottK> nixternal: If I use your kdm work around I lose compositing.
[18:23] <nixternal> really?
[18:23] <nixternal> I don't
[18:23] <ScottK> This is on my mini 10v
[18:23] <nixternal> ScottK: you should be able to trigger the suspend using qdbus
[18:23] <ScottK> I just re-enabled the work around and am rebooting.
[18:24] <ScottK> We'll see.
[18:24] <ScottK> nixternal: Any suggestions on how (qdbus)?
[18:24] <ScottK> Weird.
[18:25] <freinhard> anyone round who's a bit deepter into python-apt? documentation isn't really verbose and i'd like to know how to get error messages from a PackageManager
[18:26] <freinhard> ...PkgManager
[18:49] <ScottK> nixternal: I can't replicate the compositing loss anymore, so unless proven otherwise, I'll assume it was something else
[19:03] <nixternal> hehe
[19:04] <nixternal> I take it the amarok upload is quite broken?  I get one of those ajaxy popups saying "An error was encountered" with just an "OK" button...I know GNOME likes to dumb down their error messages, but that is going a bit to far :p
[19:05] <apachelogger> funky
[19:05] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: getting unk to not eat mem is going to be tricky
[19:06] <apachelogger> no clue what I did yesterday but I am back to 31 MiB :S
[19:06] <apachelogger> oh, I borked my branch
[19:07] <freinhard> nixternal: better some error popup than just nothing like python-apt's apt.cache.Cache.commit
[19:09] <apachelogger> anyway
[19:09] <apachelogger> garbage collection ought to be fun
[19:13] <apachelogger> nixternal: can a pyobject destroy itself?
[19:16] <nixternal> when the app closes of course :p
[19:16] <nixternal> need more context for this one :)
[19:16] <nixternal> trying to remember if PyObject.Destroy() is still valid or not...been quite some time, probably the last time I read my Python In A Nutshell book :p
[19:17] <apachelogger> well
[19:19] <apachelogger> say I have an object foo, that triggers a knotification, foo exists until the user reacts to the knotification... so once the user triggered some action, foo should do whatever is necessary for that action and then destroy itself
[19:20] <apachelogger> self will only recreate the foo object if its name is not yet occupied (i.e. there is no notification waiting for user reaction)
[19:21] <apachelogger> in order to not have foo tell self that it is now ready to be destroyed, foo should just do it itself
[19:23] <nixternal> are you using like 'self.foo = KNotification.event(blah blah lbah)' in a function?
[19:23] <apachelogger> aye
[19:23] <nixternal> self.foo used anywhere else other than that function?
[19:23] <apachelogger> well, technically KNotification.event is done by foo
[19:23] <apachelogger> nixternal: no
[19:24] <nixternal> I need to see the code..I think I just confused myself
[19:24] <apachelogger> lol
[19:24] <nixternal> I am pretty sure I just confused myself :)  I just woke up dude..I was up until 03:30 hacking on some bugs :)
[19:26] <apachelogger> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284806/
[19:28] <nixternal> once self.rebooter.show() is completed, it is dead
[19:28] <nixternal> that is unless of course there is something funky in def rebooter():
[19:28] <apachelogger> how so?
[19:29] <apachelogger> dude
[19:29] <nixternal> KNotification.event destroys itself upon closing (at least I thought)
[19:29] <apachelogger> you are talking about apacheloggercode :P
[19:29] <apachelogger> all about it is funky
[19:29] <nixternal> lol
[19:29] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/284808/
[19:30] <apachelogger> do ignore and hide should all call close or something, that leads to the object being destroyed
[19:31] <nixternal> correct
[19:32] <apachelogger> hm
[19:33] <apachelogger> nixternal: I wonder what happens if they do it via Qt
[19:33] <nixternal> ahh, dude you just helped me figure out my problem with configGroup...damn QVariant(True)...that has been killing me :)
[19:33]  * apachelogger tries deleteLater
[19:33] <apachelogger> nixternal: actually it is all pythons fault :P
[19:33] <apachelogger> IIRC in ruby you will not have to do type conversion
[19:33] <apachelogger> possibly rubyqt does this by default or something
[19:33] <nixternal> right, and I wasn't doing type conversion
[19:34] <apachelogger> I see
[19:34] <nixternal> I followed someone elses example which was evil to begin with
[19:34] <apachelogger> only follow apacheloggercode :P
[19:34] <nixternal> the great thing about Python is you don't have to know wtf you are doing and you can still write a python app :p
[19:34] <apachelogger> and run into bugs
[19:34] <nixternal> only if you are a GNOME dev :p
[19:35] <apachelogger> who would know that self.connect(self.kn, SIGNAL("action1Activated"), self.__do) does not work because the () for the signal are missing
[19:35] <nixternal> I need the old kdm script for /etc/init.d/
[19:35] <nixternal> I want to make sure this KDM issue isn't related to upstart
[19:35] <ScottK> Should be on Launchpad
[19:35]  * nixternal does bzr diff to find out
[19:35] <ScottK> that too
[19:36] <nixternal> bzr revert -r182
[19:36] <nixternal> woohoo
[19:36] <nixternal> got it :)
[19:38] <apachelogger>     self.deleteLater()
[19:38] <apachelogger> RuntimeError: underlying C/C++ object has been deleted
[19:38] <apachelogger> bah
[19:39]  * ScottK is really glad he got that fiber optic connection to the house so he can download Ubuntu updates at a blazing 100kB/s.
[19:42]  * ryanakca grins
[19:42] <ScottK> Ohhh.  Missed a zero.  Now 10.4.
[19:43] <nixternal> lol
[19:43] <nixternal> dude, I have fiber too, and I am getting 45.5 right now
[19:43] <ScottK> Yeah, I'm back up in the 40s now too.
[19:44] <ScottK> Too bad it couldn't have been predicted that lots of people would download the betas so they could have planned ahead for more bandwidth.
[19:45]  * apachelogger does not know what to do :(
[19:45] <nixternal> apachelogger: don't be sad, I don't know what to do everyday :)
[19:46] <apachelogger> I mean to destroy the object :P
[19:46]  * ScottK hands apachelogger a baseball bat.
[19:47] <apachelogger> I suppose the only solution is to emit a signal connected to the parent which triggers parent to unset the object name, thus enabling the automatic garbage collector to search and destroy
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I did some tests, importing specific things didn't make a difference at all
[19:47] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:48] <apachelogger> cant hurt either
[19:49] <apachelogger> something is weird anyway
[19:49] <apachelogger> sometimes the mem usage drops sometimes it does not
[19:49] <ScottK> Please don't break the printing.  Right now printer setup on Kubuntu is far superior to what my wife gets on Max OS X and I'd like to not mess that up.
[19:49]  * apachelogger is breaking update notification :P
[19:50] <ScottK> Ah, OK.  That's pretty broken as it is.
[19:52] <nixternal> bug 440076 - can anyone try to see if they can reproduce this? I can switch to the modern system windeco w/o any problems
[19:52] <apachelogger> hm
[19:53] <apachelogger> interesting that self.children() in unk does only list the kdirwatches
[19:53] <nixternal> well, with KDM, I can confirm that the old way with /etc/init.d/kdm doesn't log out either
[19:54] <nixternal> and that is with a patchless install of kdebase-workspace
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yeah, I observed u-n-kde go down from 10.6 MB to 8.x MB last night
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> shared mem went from 18 to like 5
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> twas weird
[19:54] <apachelogger> well
[19:55] <apachelogger> if children would actually list all the qobject children :P
[19:55] <apachelogger> ...
[19:58] <ScottK> Time to see if the server will reboot into karmic.  Hopefully back soon.
[20:03] <apachelogger> hm
[20:03] <apachelogger> that is actually fun :D
[20:03] <apachelogger> nixternal: running rebootEvent(self).show() will make the object die as soon as the main loop leaves the object scope
[20:04] <apachelogger> one would expect qsignals to ensure the object does not die prematurely
[20:04] <freinhard> maybe that applys for qt-c++ but pyqt is always a bit different
[20:05] <apachelogger> easier to create buggy apps with IMHO
[20:09] <freinhard> pyside to the rescue ;)
[20:09] <apachelogger> hm
[20:09] <apachelogger> this is insane
[20:09] <apachelogger> I del the parents object reference
[20:09] <ScottK> That was a relatively painless upgrade.  Only one high bug filed.
[20:09] <apachelogger> yet the object does not get garbaged
[20:09] <apachelogger> PITA
[20:25]  * Quintasan is back
[20:27] <Quintasan> Riddelll: omfg, this guy is so persistent -.-
[20:29] <apachelogger> funz
[20:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the gnome notifier is actually written in c :D
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> they must have realized python was no fun too
[20:30] <apachelogger> possibly
[20:30] <apachelogger> anyway
[20:31] <apachelogger> rebootEvent implements event :)
[20:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the design should be fully portable to cpp really
[20:32] <apachelogger> although, I think currently it looks more like ruby than python :S
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> you don't see very many tutorials for unglamourous things like kded modules, but I suppose it shouldn't be too hard
[20:32] <apachelogger> take a look at some simple one's code
[20:32] <apachelogger> same goes for KCM really
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> we should change the suse free space one to use knotifications
[20:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that went upstream
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> then use that experience to code an update-helper-kde
[20:32] <apachelogger> AFAIK
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, it did? awesome
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> hmm.. notification-helper-kde?
[20:33] <apachelogger> dunno
[20:33] <apachelogger> doesnt matter at this point
[20:33] <apachelogger> much more important
[20:33] <apachelogger> rant
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> the name is the least important part, yeah
[20:33] <apachelogger> imports dbus bindings, yet calls qdbus
[20:33] <apachelogger> that is like buying apples to eat a banana :P
[20:34] <apachelogger> btw
[20:34] <apachelogger> is there some faster way to write self.var?
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> lulz = self.var, then use that locally maybe?
[20:35] <apachelogger> I suppose self.var is like @var in ruby (i.e. scoped to the class)
[20:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that is lame
[20:35] <apachelogger> ruby > python
[20:35] <apachelogger> :P
[20:35] <apachelogger> the more I do python the more I must stress that fact
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> btw, what's the syntax for batgetorig'ing one package?
[20:36] <apachelogger> betgetorig packagename
[20:36] <apachelogger> I guess
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> batgetorig kdepimlibs didn't work
[20:36] <apachelogger> hm
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ]
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> /usr/bin/batgetorig:57: undefined method `include?' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
[20:37] <apachelogger> eh
[20:38] <Quintasan> archives suck today
[20:39] <apachelogger> if pkg.include?("extragear")
[20:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: weird code
[20:40] <apachelogger> who made that code Oo
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> maybe it became sentient and started maintaining itself?
[20:41] <apachelogger> something like that
[20:41] <apachelogger> oh it might have been a premature "fix" in my not-so-much-avail-time
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> at the least batgetorigrc can serve as a reminder to the scp syntax + ftp url
[20:42] <ScottK> Premature is not good.
[20:43] <apachelogger> well
[20:43] <apachelogger> anyway syntax is flawed
[20:43] <apachelogger> if $*[0] != nil
[20:43] <apachelogger>     puts("batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ]")
[20:43] <apachelogger> that way the following elif will never be processed if any arg is given
[20:43] <apachelogger> and the followings are actually responsible for treating the arg...
[20:44] <apachelogger> chicken-egg problem I suppose :P
[20:44] <apachelogger> easy to fix though
[20:45] <apachelogger> dont have bzr installed though
[20:45] <Quintasan> I thought we don't use these now :P
[20:45] <apachelogger> dont care to right now either
[20:46] <apachelogger> oh well unk is annoying the shit out of me
[20:46] <apachelogger> I shall stop poking that
[20:48] <Quintasan> urgh, high-leve ruby code
[20:48] <Quintasan> +l
[20:52] <apachelogger> Quintasan: actually it is not high-level :P
[20:52] <apachelogger> more like lower class medium
[20:52] <apachelogger> to keep it slick :P
[20:53] <Quintasan> oh well, I have found why's guide in pdf so I can resume learning
[20:53] <apachelogger> hehe
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> any core-dev around that can sponsor bug 441633?
[21:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'll have a look.
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[21:32] <nixternal> 100kB/s!!!! \o/
[21:32] <nixternal> I just saw over 200!!!
[21:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How throughly have you tested this?
[21:32] <nixternal> 2 hours to sync my image
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> I've not had too much chance to test it very long since I posted it as soon as I made packages
[21:33] <ScottK> OK.  I'll have a look.  Let me know if you run into problems.
[21:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Would you be able to look at updating xz-utils?
[21:34] <ScottK> The one we have has a bad file corrupution bug.
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I could do that.
[21:34] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> ouch, data loss ftl
[21:34] <ScottK> And it's not like we care about lzma or anything.
[21:53] <yuriy> sad, no other kubuntu users at MIT's bug jam
[21:54] <nixternal> it will be like that for me tomorrow at the Chicago Jam
[21:54] <ScottK> We are few, but we are strong
[21:54] <nixternal> though I usually just backhand the ones who try to talk trash
[21:55] <ScottK> One of the interesting things I learned in Barcelona (last UDS) is that Canonical employees are supposed to use Ubuntu so that they are so to say eating their own dogfood.  Using Kubuntu counts for dogfooding.  Using Xubuntu or one of the other non-main derivatives does not.
[21:56] <ScottK> So a fair number of Canonicla people use Kubuntu.
[21:56] <yuriy> strong ... fine print: graphical package management not included
[21:57] <ScottK> It's there.  Just doesn't work very well.
[21:57] <dtchen> it's pretty much impossible for me to dogfood
[21:58] <dtchen> i don't have nearly all the hardware my code touches
[21:58] <ScottK> ;-)
[21:58] <yuriy> this is really weird, I can't get to bugs.kde.org, even though everyone else can. kind of hard to do anything useful like this.
[22:02] <yuriy> oh damn guest wireless.
[22:11] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Any reason I shouldn't go ahead an upload this Konversation?
[22:13] <yuriy> anyone else getting duplicate systray icons?
[22:14] <ScottK> yuriy: Do you have two systrays stacked on top of each other?
[22:14]  * ScottK has had that before.
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: none that I can think of
[22:14] <ScottK> OK
[22:14] <yuriy> ScottK: nope, but interesting theory
[22:15] <yuriy> what does the apport /var/crash monitoring for Ubuntu?
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> I have an interesting build failure with xz-utils. It fails at the start when it's running debuild clean: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284925/
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> any magic I have to run before debuilding?
[22:16] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[22:16] <dtchen> mmm, autotool-fu
[22:16]  * JontheEchidna lacks autotool-fu
[22:16] <dtchen> so, at the very least, that's stuff from autoconf and automake
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> more like, fu autotool
[22:16] <dtchen> well, yes, that, too
[22:17] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There are some interesting comments in debian/changelog about manual config, but I didn't get a chance to look into it.
[22:17]  * ScottK is lacking in the auto deparment too.
[22:19] <dtchen> i don't know the preferred approach for that package in particular, but that's really:
[22:19] <dtchen> intltoolize --force --copy
[22:19] <dtchen> libtoolize --force --copy --automake
[22:19] <dtchen> automake --gnu --add-missing --force --copy
[22:19] <yuriy> what u-n-k does for crash reporting looks rather weird to me and I don't understand why it would work. I want to look at what the ubuntu thing does
[22:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: bzr updated too.
[22:20] <dtchen> some of the flags may not be desirable; again, i'm unfamiliar with that specific source packae
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> ERROR: 'IT_PROG_INTLTOOL' must appear in configure.ac for intltool to work.
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> this package might be out of the realm of my capabilities
[22:26] <ScottK> Might be a good learning experience.
[22:26] <ScottK> I'd try skipping inltoolize and move on to libtoolize.
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> all 3 of those gave the same error
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> I am gaining a greater appreciation of cmake from this experience
[22:28] <nixternal> cmake > *
[22:30] <yuriy> MI looks pretty broken to me
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> we just got a bug report about kmail not showing up in it after the latest updates
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> bug 441729
[22:31] <yuriy> kopete is showing up but when a message comes in it just flashes and goes away
[22:31] <yuriy> nothing in the indicator popup except the kopete icon
[22:31] <yuriy> this might be because i have queue messages off in kopete
[22:32] <yuriy> every time i give kopete a try i have to change a bunch of things like that, the default settings are awful
[22:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: It was default on before by mistake.  The last upload changed the default to off (as it should have been all along).  If they manually turn it on, it should work.
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, ok
[22:34] <Quintasan> wut, current buffer in vim == opened file?
[22:35] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: source package location?
[22:35] <dtchen> may as well take a break from hacking up sound/pci/hda/*
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> dtchen: zx-utils, apt-get source'd from the archive
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> new upstream release that fixes a corruption bug
[22:35] <ScottK> Then drop a new tarball on top of it
[22:35] <yuriy> ScottK: looks like still default on for kopete
[22:36] <ScottK> Is bug then.
[22:36] <dtchen> err, xz-utils?
[22:36] <dtchen> right.
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> does it really matter if the plugin is on by default if there is no indicator on the desktop by default?
[22:36] <nixternal> maco: that lady in the video you just linked to, the one who was in front of the AT&T banner, that was my old boss Pam!!!
[22:36] <maco> hahahah awesome
[22:36] <nixternal> I hated her with a passion, but it is cool to see she is in the video
[22:37] <yuriy> looks like update-notifier is hardcoded to apport-gtk. so i wonder why i'm bothering.
[22:37] <nixternal> i run into her at the gym every now and then and she still tries to preach to me :)
[22:38] <nixternal> awesome unix hacker, horrible boss
[22:39] <nixternal> I said "Vista and Windows 7" in a recent tweet, and now I have had 28 people who are MS nutbags start following me
[22:39] <Quintasan> nixternal: that's Twitter for you :D
[22:40] <nixternal> someone bragging that "love word 2007" has more hits on google than "hate word 2007"
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> maybe nixternal just naturally attracts tech drama?
[22:40] <Quintasan> drama magnet :D
[22:40] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: i think you're onto something
[22:40] <nixternal> so I did "hate office 2007" vs. "hate openoffice", and openoffice won with just a few thousand hits where the office 2007 one had almost 200,000 hits :)
[22:41] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: am i supposed to grabbing a new upstream version?
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> dtchen: wget http://tukaani.org/xz/xz-4.999.9beta.tar.gz
[22:41] <dtchen> ah, that's better.
[22:41] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There is an indicator on the desktop by default.
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> ooh
[22:42] <ScottK> Not for upgrades, just for new installs.
[22:43] <ScottK> Present, but not doing anything was the compromise.
[22:43] <dtchen> jeez, no debian/ in 4.999.9beta?
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> that's the pure upstream tarball
[22:45] <dtchen> yeah, i'm just bitter with uupdate
[22:45] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: are you going to UDS?
[22:45] <yuriy> oh guess you have school right
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> yeah :(
[22:46] <ScottK> What he has is misplaced priorities
[22:47] <dtchen> no, that's maco.
[22:47] <dtchen> cough.
[22:47] <maco> what i do?
[22:48] <maco> oh yeah im going to school instead of UDS too
[22:48] <maco> also: what sort of icon would be appropriate for a mips assembly emulator?
[22:48] <dtchen> you kinda need to if you want to pass
[22:48] <maco> dtchen: that too
[22:49] <maco> like, how does one represent an emulator? this package doesnt have a .desktop so im adding one but it doesnt have an icon either so im gonna make one but...bwahh?
[22:49] <dtchen> an icon that has MIPS ASM in it.
[22:49] <dtchen> be creative; use that noggin'!
[22:50] <maco> oh. crud! otsukimi started 20 minutes ago. dang!
[22:51] <nixternal> maco: don't feel bad, I am going on a bike trip instead of UDS :)
[22:54] <dtchen> yeah, i'm going to work instead of UDS
[22:54] <dtchen> not that i have a choice in this particular deployment
[22:56]  * Quintasan want's to go to UDS but he is in queue for sponsorship
[22:56] <Quintasan> -'
[22:58] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: you just need to run autoconf && autoheader && automake --gnu --add-missing --force --copy
[22:58] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: then do the debuild foo
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> cool, thanks
[23:02] <dtchen> np
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> still fails in pbuilder after running those then debuilding :(
[23:05]  * yuriy wants a magical instant kdelibs builder
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> then pbuilding the resulting source package
[23:06] <yuriy> i should remember to keep my work computer on over the weekend and put a pbuilder on there
[23:16] <ScottK> I should remember to switch back to KDE notifications before trying out the low battery suspend notification.
[23:24] <ScottK> OK, notifcation is back and the timer is 30 seconds, unfortunately the notification itself is only 5 sseconds.
[23:27] <yuriy> is there a way to change that?
[23:29] <nixternal> yes, I would like to know how to do that, especially for kopete notifications that come and go so fast that I don't even know what happened
[23:31] <ScottK> In theory
[23:31]  * ScottK looks around
[23:58] <yuriy> what do I need to do to set up userconfig for translations?
[23:58] <yuriy> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/userconfig says no templates available


 https://twitter.com/arwinneil/status/919090942153408512
[08:30] <acheronuk> great to see a room full of PCs running kubuntu for an educational event like that!
 How do you know its Kubuntu?
 @CliffordTheBigRedDoggie, "featuring @kubuntu"
 Oh, I should learn to read !
 and I can see our konqi and added favourites on the kickoff on the projector
 But looking at pictures serves me so well!
 also https://twitter.com/arwinneil/status/919087352152145920
 I wonder if we can get some info and feedback on how that worksjop went? If good, maybe write somethng for our website?
 I feel that Linux & FOSS story should be on our website
 jumping machine, brb
 @Sick_Rimmit, Imho Twitter is fine
 But what does the KC think?
[19:13] <valorie> ahoneybun: we should retweet those from the kub twitter
[19:14] <ahoneybun> What?
[19:14] <valorie> acheronuk: maybe someone can do a little q&a with the organizer?
[19:14] <valorie> acheronuk's tweets above
[19:16] <ahoneybun> Should be done
[19:17] <ahoneybun> I thought I gave other people access to the Twitter and mastodon
[19:23] <valorie> I have mastodon
[19:24] <valorie> not twitter
[19:43] <clivejo> valorie: did you have a calendar you prepared already?
[19:44] <valorie> for next cycle? nope
[19:44] <clivejo> for this cycle?
[19:45] <valorie> I think the KDE release scheds aren't ready for 6 months in the future either
[19:45] <valorie> yes, I shared a google calendar with everybody
[19:45] <clivejo> got a link?
[19:46] <clivejo> timely has an import function
[19:46] <valorie> sec
[19:46] <clivejo> I'm researching linking it to your release calendar
[19:47] <clivejo> if it does what we want, I might write to the developer and ask for a free pro account
[19:47] <valorie> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=aDZ0YnZ1M2drMmcxcjM2cmZyZDBoamNscDBAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ
[19:48] <valorie> can't really fill out for bumbling buffalo until the schedule is published
[19:48] <valorie> I hope within a week or two
[19:48] <clivejo> can you share that calendar so that the Release Team can update it too?
[19:49] <valorie> hmmm, I shared permissions for some people
[19:49] <valorie> dunno how though
[19:50] <clivejo> are these tagged or in categories?
[19:51] <valorie> no -- I'll try to do that next time though
[19:51] <clivejo> I'm trying to import and not finding any upcoming events
[19:53] <valorie> release should be there?
[19:53] <clivejo> yeah and podcast
[19:54] <clivejo> does kde have a calendar with all KDE stuff on it?
[19:55] <valorie> somewhere
[19:55] <valorie> I just looked up the scheds on the wiki
[19:55] <clivejo> but not a combined everything on one page thing?
[19:56] <valorie> dunno
[19:56] <valorie> supposedly there is an ical somewhere
[19:57] <valorie> but do not know who maintains it
[19:57] <valorie> or how to find it
[19:57] <valorie> thus the discussion of the phab calendar
[19:58] <clivejo> that link isn't working
[19:58] <clivejo> is there a share link, rather than embed?
[19:58] <valorie> huh, works for me
[19:58] <valorie> I'm trying to find another way
[19:59] <clivejo> it works for embedding it in a site
[19:59] <valorie> I wish I had disclosed that for posterity
[19:59] <valorie> sheesh
[19:59] <clivejo> but not for extracting and importing
[20:02] <valorie> I do not see any way to get a link even like the one I sent
[20:02] <valorie> gosh
[20:02] <valorie> don't have time right now for more research
[20:07] <clivejo> darn this storm looks nasty
[20:07] <valorie> is this more the hurricane remains?
[20:08] <clivejo> same one Rik was talking about
[20:09] <valorie> looking at windy.tv, looks like the really nasty part is just offshort
[20:09] <clivejo> they cancelling school on Monday down South
[20:10] <valorie> looks like the Scottish islands will bear the brunt
[20:10] <valorie> playing the little windy.tv movie
[20:12] <clivejo> looks like it hitting us this time on Monday
[20:12] <valorie> :(
[20:12] <valorie> hope it stays out to sea
[20:14] <clivejo> I could lose another roof :(
[20:16] <valorie> :(
[20:18] <clivejo> should wind down the tower as well
[20:25] <valorie> thanks for RTing, ahoneybun
[20:26] <ahoneybun> np valorie I'll send some info to get into the account if you like
[20:26] <valorie> cool
[20:26] <valorie> yes I think we should spread it around so every account has at least 3 people with access
[20:27] <valorie> 2 is good, 3 is better
[20:28] <clivejo> but people who like it and know how it works!
[20:29] <valorie> precisely
[20:29] <valorie> I'm never gonna be good with G+ anymore because it's changed too much and I'm only frustrated
[20:30] <valorie> and I don't read hacker news etc
 I can do twiiter. that at least I like
[20:30] <clivejo> I lost my rag with Snapfish earlier on
[20:30] <clivejo> such a piece of poop
[20:31] <valorie> what is snapfish?
 so if @ahoneybun CC's me the twiiter as well, that would be good
[20:31] <clivejo> supposed to be a photo printing service
 @acheronuk cc?
[20:31] <clivejo> used to be owned by HP, but not sure these days
 @ahoneybun cc = carbon copy, like in an email. i.e. send to me as well
 oh the twitter login?
 @ahoneybun, yep
 was going to use IRC PM
 @ahoneybun @Valoriez I quite often spot stuff on twitter in the morning for me, when USA people are still tucked in better
 @ahoneybun, CC is a figure of speach
 ah
[20:38] <clivejo> oooooo
[20:38] <clivejo> did I tell you how much I love to acheronuk
[20:38] <clivejo> love you
[20:38] <acheronuk> LOL
[20:39] <acheronuk> ice?
[20:39]  * clivejo nods
[20:39] <acheronuk> clink clink.... glug
[20:39] <acheronuk> there ya go
[20:40] <clivejo> need a stiff one
[20:41] <acheronuk> I start with doubles, minimum
[20:42] <clivejo> well your in England
[20:42] <clivejo> your singles are tiny!
[20:43] <clivejo> 25ml compared to our 35ml
[20:44] <valorie> so that's where the Irish reputation came from!
[20:44] <valorie> the size of the dram
[20:45] <clivejo> I thought a dram was smaller
[20:45] <clivejo> like a sip
[20:46] <clivejo> or a swig
[20:50]  * acheronuk moves to Ireland
[20:51] <clivejo> I wouldn't take the boat for a bit
[21:09] <mparillo> https://twitter.com/arwinneil/status/919087352152145920 sent to G+
[21:10] <valorie> thanks mparillo
 I'm still slightly awe struck to see a University computer lab  with several dozen PCs, all running an OS I helped to package!
[21:12] <clivejo> let hope they don't crash and burn
 LOL
[21:13] <clivejo> success = no thanks or acknowledgement
[21:14] <valorie> well, ALL the computer labs should be running our stuff!
[21:14] <clivejo> any wee bug or annoyance = blast you to hell and back on all social media and throw toys out of pram
[21:14] <valorie> not everyone is trumpian
[21:15] <clivejo> have you read some of the comments on the net?
[21:15] <valorie> those few do leave a bad taste in your mouth though
[21:16] <valorie> imo anyone who allows comments and then doesn't have any standards about what is allowed in comments is ......
[21:16] <valorie> irresponsible, in the very least
[21:16] <valorie> I do read some comments
[21:16] <valorie> once they go south, it's very bad
[21:18] <acheronuk> I read some, but you have to mentally filter it.
[21:19] <acheronuk> same goes for the whole net!
[21:19] <acheronuk> on all topics
[21:19] <clivejo> Kubuntu packagers suck, so I'm moving to Mint
[21:19] <acheronuk> lol
[21:20] <valorie> I never bag on the mint users
[21:20] <clivejo> Kubuntu packagers suck, so I'm going to build packages myself in my PPA
[21:20] <valorie> everyone should use tools they like
[21:20] <acheronuk> haha.   User x on Launchpad is uploading Plasma 5.11.0 for Xenial and tell him how to install a PPA on his system
[21:26]  * acheronuk rolls eyes
 @acheronuk, Look up Partimus. I'm happy over here too. :D
 @valorie, But Mint is outdated, insecure, and made by amateurs... I only agreed to work with Clem to be considerate of y'all, but don't think he has the right to bottomfeed unless he pitches in too...


[15:36] <zequence> OvenWerks: Call me slow, but it seems mixdowns don't work on ardour if the PA bridge is active
[15:37] <zequence> Haven't yet updated to latest, so maybe it was fixed - but that is pretty serious. We need to make that problem go away somehow
[15:37] <OvenWerks> zequence: possible
[15:38] <OvenWerks> There are a few possible reasons for this:
[15:38] <OvenWerks> 1) PA is also connected to another audio interface.
[15:38] <OvenWerks> 2) PA is connected to the audio device.
[15:39] <OvenWerks> 3) there is a newer version of jackdbus that allows freewheel to disconnect all outputs (I don't think so)
[15:39] <zequence> PA is only connected to the sink and source of the jack module
[15:40] <zequence> But, it's still PA causing the problem through the bridge
[15:40] <OvenWerks> desktop audio should not be able to be heard while doing mixdown
[15:40] <zequence> If I disable PA, ardour mixdowns work fine
[15:40] <OvenWerks>  if it is, then see 2)
[15:41] <zequence> PA is connected to the jack module sink and source. Nothing else
[15:41] <OvenWerks> even internal to jack?
[15:42] <zequence> Yes, that is what I'm saying
[15:42] <zequence> I'm not saying the module is connected to various jack apps
[15:42] <zequence> Though, it is that too
[15:43] <OvenWerks> Then we need a button to disable the bridge in _controls.
[15:43] <zequence> HOw about we fix the problem in the first place instead?
[15:43] <OvenWerks> zequence: that would require changing pa_jacksource/sink
[15:43] <zequence> Either it is a design flaw in jack, or each client needs to be versitaile somehow
[15:44] <OvenWerks> I think the PA jack module is not honering the freewheel signal properly.
[15:44] <zequence> Yeah, this probably only occurs with PA being connected as a jack client
[15:44] <zequence> Well, let's make sure it is known and try to find a way to fix it
[15:45] <zequence> The bridge is just an example utility really, so it could use more work anyway
[15:46] <OvenWerks> zequence: yes. including double buffering so increase latency as needed.
[15:46] <OvenWerks> (actually, I think it just needs buffering at all)
[15:47] <zequence> Maybe that would take some load off the CPU as well? (just guessing)
[15:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: yes. Right now latency forces time constrants on any sample rate conversion.
[15:49] <OvenWerks> So far as I know PA already does sliding latency with the audio devices (ALSA)
[15:56] <zequence> Only someone from the jack side of things will be interesting in working out a fix, and even in that bunch, the sum of people that includes becomes quite small
[16:06] <OvenWerks> The sum of people who are both interested and also have the time is even smaller.
[16:07] <OvenWerks> The origianl auther of the bridge has been responsive to change requests in the past... but those have been mostly passing paramerters from the jackdbus detector to the source/sink
[16:19] <zequence> Yeah, I remember David expressed he would have liked to do more, almost as if he was feeling guilty because he wasn't
[16:43] <zequence> He doesn't seem to be on IRC anymore
[16:44] <zequence> ..not as much, anyway
[17:54] <OvenWerks> IRC can waste a lot of time if we let it :)


[20:51] <cory_fu> Hey, question about charm2 upload and bundles for the uiteam.  I've been told that `charm2 upload` should just work with bundles, but I get a message about about it being unable to open metadata.yaml, which obviously the bundle doesn't have
[20:51] <cory_fu> Is this the correct command form?  charm2 upload ~bigdata-dev/bundles/apache-core-batch-processing
[20:51] <rick_h_> cory_fu: shouldn't need the /bundles part of the url
[20:51] <bac> cory_fu: you need to give it a path
[20:51] <rick_h_> ?
[20:52] <bac> cory_fu: so if you're in the bundle, use a . after the upload command
[20:52] <bac> cory_fu: but i've never used upload with a bundle, just charms
[20:52] <cory_fu> bac: How does it know where to upload it into the store?
[20:52] <cory_fu> Also, `charm2 upload --help` says to use `charm upload ~bob/bundle/django`
[20:53] <bac> cory_fu: the help says that the directory of where the bundle lives is optional and the final argument is the charmstore namespace
[20:53] <cory_fu> Hrm.  Using that form (bundle, singular) says it can't find my local path.  I think I need to use "bundle" locally as well
[20:53] <cory_fu> Ah, I see
[20:53] <bac> cory_fu: so if you don't give a local path it assumes it is in your JUJU_REPOSITORY directory
[20:54] <cory_fu> Perfect.  That worked.  Thanks!
[20:54] <rick_h_> cory_fu: so try charm2 upload . cs:~bigdata-dev/apache-core-batch-processing
[20:54] <bac> cory_fu: that is why when uploading charms i always have my cwd to be the directory and use .
[20:54] <rick_h_> cory_fu: ok coolio
[20:55] <rick_h_> cory_fu: did you need the /bundle in the url or did you drop that?
[20:55] <bac> cory_fu: yeah, could you paste the command that worked?
[20:55] <cory_fu> I will also update my local path convention to use "bundle" instead of "bundles" so that it matches the command's expectations
[20:55] <cory_fu> Yes, I did
[20:55] <cory_fu> charm2 upload . ~bigdata-dev/bundle/apache-core-batch-processing
[20:55] <rick_h_> hmm, :( that the bundle was there
[20:56] <cory_fu> Leaving it out complains about metadata.yaml, so it must be assuming it's a charm
[20:56] <rick_h_> gotcha, yea that's :(
[20:56] <rick_h_> we'll have to work on that
[20:56] <bac> cory_fu: i also like to use the 'cs:' prefix so it is obvious.  also it prevents ~ expansion if your local username is the same.
[20:56] <bac> but clearly not a problem with your example
[20:57] <cory_fu> bac: Good advice.  Seems like it'd be good to update the --help examples to use cs:
[20:57] <bac> cory_fu: i thought i had.
[20:57] <rick_h_> cory_fu: it is, but in trunk and not in the release
[20:57] <bac> ah
[20:57] <rick_h_> bac: you did, but we've not released a new charm2 lately
[20:57] <bac> we should do that.  :)
[20:58] <rick_h_> +1, hoping that we get that worked out and updated. the /bundle should be skipable as well.
[20:58]  * rick_h_ files a bug
[21:12] <cory_fu> Are we going to get a new release of the GUI soon with the title updates to jujusvg?
[21:19] <rick_h_> cory_fu: soon, the title updates are in bjt needs a charmstore release
[21:20] <cory_fu> Also, the X and Y values for placement... Are those for the top-left corner?  I notice that the circles for subordinates are smaller than normal services, so it makes calculating the placement a bit harder.
[21:23] <hatch> cory_fu: don't calculate the placement, do it in the GUI then export the bundle
[21:23] <hatch> much easier
[21:23] <hatch> and less error prone for typos :)
[21:27] <cory_fu> hatch: Any support for grid-snapping in the GUI?
[21:28] <hatch> nope
[21:28] <cory_fu> Would be nice to have.  :)
[21:28] <hatch> yeah it's been on the roadmap for 3 years
[21:29] <hatch> but to much else to do :)
[21:29] <hatch> but honestly building bundles in the gui and then exporting it saves so much time than trying to write it by hand
[21:29] <hatch> even if to just get it close


[01:11] <OvenWerks> zequence: (and othes) -settings is ready for upload as soon as -menu and -installer make it to the wild.
[01:44] <OvenWerks> grub-common is quite heavily modified from debian. It would seem upstream could use a makeover/big_patch that allowed more flexability with how the menu was displayed based on one config file instead of ubuntu having to change a pile of things in lots of files.
[01:46] <OvenWerks> Many of these changes could be generic rather than ubuntu specific.
[09:52] <zequence> OvenWerks: Just get it uploaded now. We only have until tuesday after all
[09:52] <zequence> OvenWerks: Doesn't matter if the ISO breaks.
[09:52] <zequence> Bugs can be dealed with after FF
[09:52] <zequence> micahg: YOu aren't around by any chance?
[12:27] <zequence> OvenWerks: I've asked to have it uploaded. A MOTU person said it would be nice to have it in a queue - following MOTU documentation about it did not clarify things much for me yet
[12:28] <zequence> Sort of like a maze
[12:30] <smartboyhw> zequence, it is like you report a bug and subscribe MOTU?
[12:40] <cub> Hi smartboyhw , I was suprised when running an update today on my 12.04.2 that I didn't get any updates.
[12:40] <smartboyhw> cub, because it's already 12.04.3
[12:41] <cub> and here I was hoping for some new gadget.
[12:41] <smartboyhw> cub, what new gadgets?
[12:42] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yes, I think that's the way it works
[12:42] <cub> I don't know. When there's an upgrade I just hope tp notice. :P
[12:42] <zequence> cub: Did they stop mocking you at work, or they laughed at the cropping on your cup?
[12:43] <zequence> anitklimax sort of thing
[12:43] <zequence> anticlimax*
[12:43] <cub> They have been quiet actually.
[12:43] <cub> Now I'm trying to get work to pay for my Internetdagarna-ticket so I can get the chance to meet Jono.
[12:44] <cub> but good service from Spreadshirt to send a new one, no hassle.
[13:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: good call. Thanks. micah won't be around till later.
[13:14] <smartboyhw> zequence, BTW, please post to social mediae about the 12.04.3 release.
[13:39] <cub> If  I would like to add a keyboard shortcut as deafult in the next release. Where in ubuntustudio-default-settings do I find that?
[13:40] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ^
[13:40] <smartboyhw> cub, you will have to give us a justification of why that shortcut will be convenient to most users though:P
[13:41] <cub> I have two suggestions: ctrl + alt + t which is default in any other xfce release, except ubuntu studio
[13:41] <cub> and something to start Orca with on the live boot
[13:43] <smartboyhw> cub, for the second one: Maybe ask why Xubuntu didn't use it?
[13:43]  * smartboyhw thinks we inherit these from Xubuntu
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Oops, first one:P
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Second one we can add it
[13:43] <cub> yes, they have added it back now.
[13:43] <smartboyhw> cub, then why we didn't?
[13:43] <cub> I don't know?
[13:43] <smartboyhw> And maybe check where the shourtcuts are defined in Xubuntu?
[13:44] <cub> I have only traced it to "xubuntu-default-settings" but can't find where in there it is
[13:45] <cub> I figured someone might know right away instead of searching for it further
[14:28] <OvenWerks> cub I am sure we can find it.
[14:28] <OvenWerks> teh first thing is to find where it goes in your home directory
[14:31] <OvenWerks> perhaps /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml?
[14:32] <OvenWerks> property name="<Super>t" type="string" value="exo-open --launch TerminalEmulator"/>
[14:33] <OvenWerks> opps missed the < on the front of that
[14:35] <OvenWerks> To add that to ubuntustudio look for the same file, but replace the xdg-xubuntu with xdg-ubuntustudio.
[14:36] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-default-settings has had a lot of chnages, so you may wish to do a bzr pull to make sure it is mostly up to date.
[14:39] <OvenWerks> cub: just so you know, the first time you log in, that whole directory gets copied to your home directory in ~/.config/xfce4/
[14:40] <cub> ok, thanks for the info. I will poke around and get familiar before I actually will change anything.
[14:41] <OvenWerks> No problem. It may not make it for 13.10, but 14.04 should be fine.
[14:41] <cub> Why not? Isn't FF the 29th?
[14:42] <OvenWerks> It has been taking a lot of time just getting the packages released
[14:42] <cub> On the other hand, it might already be there if we pull anything from xubuntu
[14:42] <OvenWerks> No we don't, it is not there.
[14:42] <cub> aha and another change in the default-settings require a new release?
[14:43] <OvenWerks> not yet.
[14:43] <OvenWerks> we are waiting for someone to help us release it.
[14:43] <cub> ok
[14:43] <smartboyhw> Well, if it is just a keyboard shortcut change, I will rather opt for applying for a FFe.
[14:43] <OvenWerks> so changes today should be ok.
[14:43] <smartboyhw> After FF
[14:44] <cub> It would be good to be able to add as UBuntu CTRL + S to start Orca on the live session.
[14:44] <OvenWerks> Is that what xubuntu does?
[14:44] <cub> no "normal" ubuntu
[14:45] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, does Xubuntu include Orca in the first place?
[14:45] <cub> xubuntu doesn't include orca
[14:45] <cub> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility
[14:45] <OvenWerks> If xubuntu's shortcuts are mostly the same, we could import their file as is.
[14:45] <cub> Starting Orca on the Live CD
[14:45] <cub> download and burn the Ubuntu ISO boot from it wait until you hear a sound from your sound card. This may take several minutes on a CD drive. press CTRL+s Within a few minutes, Ubuntu will be loaded with Orca running"
[14:46] <smartboyhw> cub, live session ONLY?
[14:46] <cub> I'm not sure, but when discussed I think knome said they had included it again
[14:46] <cub> smartboyhw, yes live only. Otherwise it might collide with the other standard ctrl+s I suppose
[14:47] <OvenWerks> If that happens before xfce loads it is not a shortcut
[14:47] <smartboyhw> cub, what if Ctrl+S is included in live?
[14:47] <cub> that's what I was going to check when asking about the files :)
[14:48] <cub> It's a rather strange choice, I think, but if Ubuntu use it it might be good to try to keep the same.
[14:48] <OvenWerks> cub does the control s have to happen while plymouth is still running?
[14:49] <OvenWerks> (ubuntu on screen with moving dots?)
[14:49] <cub> no it's once the session is loaded and you can click the "Install" icon
[14:49] <OvenWerks> ok
[14:50] <cub> however, a blind person wouldn't be able to tell if plymouth is running still or not
[14:50] <cub> and might press ctrl+s too early. Would that mess something up?
[14:50] <cub> :D
[14:50] <OvenWerks> But it sounds like the sound doesn't happen till the session starts
[14:50] <cub> I think it refers to the old drum roll
[14:51] <OvenWerks> That is orca gets loaded as part of the session.
[14:51] <cub> which is not there anymore is it?
[14:53] <OvenWerks> I think what you have is a script that gets run from the session startup that looks for a ctl s and then once the user has selected it... the autostart has it added.
[14:53] <cub> I think we could also do a wiki for the accessibility installation and instead do "press ALT+F2 and type 'orca --replace'"
[14:54] <cub> No need for keyboard shortcut, but requires the person to type alright without a screen reader
[14:54] <cub> sadly though, the last apt-get upgrade made orca not running at all in Saucy.
[14:56] <OvenWerks> cub: one other difficulty with orca and studio... is that with some of the (semi)pro audio cards come up silent.
[14:57] <OvenWerks> I would think a blind person would have their internal audio connected though... (I don't)
[14:57]  * OvenWerks disables internal audio in bios
[15:08] <cub> Before the initial installtion one could hope that the internal audio is connected
[15:09] <OvenWerks> I think a blind person is more likely to leave the internal sound active
[15:10] <OvenWerks> cub: -settings is being reviewed now. SO I can't add anything.
[15:10] <cub> Ok
[15:12] <OvenWerks> cub: I would suggest you put a bug in marked "wishlist" and mark yourself as "assigned to"
[15:12] <cub> I'm not sure that the Ubuntu Accessibility page is up to date either. My tests on Ubuntu Saucy the shortcut didn't work and the screen reader kind of worked but read "Menu icon", Menu icon, menu icon for everything which wasn't really helpful when trying to find like firefox. :D
[15:13] <cub> OvenWerks, for the ctrl+alt+t?
[15:13] <OvenWerks> a work in progress then.
[15:13] <OvenWerks> yes
[15:13] <cub> ah ok
[15:13] <cub> bbl
[15:16] <OvenWerks> cub: when you do the change log after you have added it, put (lp: #bugnumber) at the end of your line and use debcommit. That will auto add the --fixes to the commit which will clear the bug when that is released.
[16:16] <cub> Any particular reason Ubuntu Studio ship gedit instead of mousepad?
[16:16] <holstein> i prefer it
[16:16] <holstein> it can be changed..
[16:17] <holstein> i think it was to stay more like main ubuntu and the older ubuntustudio
[16:17] <cub> nah I use neither. Was just reading on applications that work well with Orca.
[16:17] <holstein> less change all at once at least
[16:17] <OvenWerks> cub: that was what was voted at the time.
[16:17] <holstein> yeah.. and i might have been the deciding vote or whatever.. but im with you guys
[16:18]  * smartboyhw likes gedit
[16:18] <smartboyhw> Sorry:P
[16:19] <OvenWerks> we have no reason to use a minimal editor. We are not trying to save space. We already have the libs anyway. gedit has more "usefulness"
[16:19] <smartboyhw> cub, does mousepad give you code syntax support?
[16:28] <OvenWerks> cub: I think mouse pad had problems at the time as well.
[16:30] <OvenWerks> xubuntu was using leafpad at the time
[17:29] <OvenWerks> some of our branches have been updated to a new bzr version.
[17:30] <OvenWerks> be warned you may have to rebranch to use them... so don't do much work without trying a pull first... and rebranch if  needed.
[17:33] <cub> Ah no I have no interest in mousepad. I was just reading up on Orca and Xfce and it came up that mousepad apparently worked well with Orca, while other applications didn't. I think from a Orca POV gedit is better since Orca comes from Gnome.
[17:55] <OvenWerks> zequence, knome, TheDrums, micahg: We now have two packages in proposed (and one in new), is there action we need to take? or will they get to the wild on their own?
[17:56] <OvenWerks> After monkeying around google and ubuntu search engines, I am not finding anything usefull
[18:24] <zequence> OvenWerks: I think they are automatically transferred after a little while, not sure actually
[18:25] <zequence> That's for the packages in -proposed
[18:26] <zequence> I have no idea about new
[18:30] <TheDrums> For Debian NEW, it just takes a little time, and for Ubuntu proposed, things get lined up and make sure there's no breakage.
[21:07] <OvenWerks> holstein: so far as I know, Ardour will start jackd if it is not running. The problem is it starts jackd and not jackdbus
[21:07] <OvenWerks> killall -9 jackd fixes that though.
[21:39] <OvenWerks> zequence: Are we still supporting 10.04? There is a (or more bugs) against ubuntustudio-menu in that era. Can I at least mark it as won't fix?
[21:52] <OvenWerks> No I can't ok Invalid then...


[08:38] <zbenjamin> zsombi: don't forget the PR please :)
[08:38] <zsombi> zbenjamin: I won't!!!!
[13:04] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN:  t1mp: I commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/ubuntu-app-platform/+git/ubuntu-app-platform/+merge/311947 I think we definitely want to talk about language packs now. We can't be blowing up the base install of all core apps massively like that.
[13:05] <kalikiana_> Unless you can find a work-around that doesn't require that package
[13:05] <t1mp> kalikiana_: right. Thanks for checking.
[13:06] <t1mp> so, a separate language-packs snap would make sense. But I guess then the versions need to match?
[13:06] <kalikiana_> What versions do you mean?
[13:11] <t1mp> each app and libs in the platform have their own translations? And the words used may differ between versions
[13:12] <t1mp> so the app versions and the lib versions in the runtime snap all need to match the versions used for the translations?
[13:16] <kalikiana_> t1mp: I don't think we necessarily want to bundle translations of all the (core) apps. But rather lower level strings like glib or uitk, and for example ubuntu-keyboard- packages.
[13:18] <kalikiana_> So an app will continue to bundle its own localization, but not that of all the various libraries it's using if they come from a platform snap
[13:19] <kalikiana_> (And I'd tentatively propose to move the keyboard packages from the platform snap to the language snap)
[14:07] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, t1mp: I commented on the merge request. That specific change is not about language packs (but the conversation needs to happen regardless)
[14:15] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: Sure. But you're nevertheless proposing a massive increase in size right now.
[14:16] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, it’s either that, or a massive increase in size for every single app (if they need to apply the workaround themselves), or no localization
[14:16] <oSoMoN> or is there another option?
[14:16] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: Well, I asked you first if there was another way, so you can guess that I don't have a suggestion right now :-D
[14:17] <kalikiana_> Of course it makes no sense for apps to ship it
[14:18] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: Although it would seem sensible to assume we could try to take only part of it, and see whatever is required to "make things work at all" without actual translations
[14:18] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, I’m not aware of any other way out or lighter workaround for now, unfortunately
[14:20] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: In any event your comment is not correct. There is nothing missing in the core image. It won't ever be added.
[14:20] <kalikiana_> For the same reason, the image needs to stay lean
[14:20] <kalikiana_> Language packs will need to solve that.
[14:21] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, I was under the impression that this was going to be addressed in snapd, at some point, given the description of bug #1576282, but I might have gotten it wrong
[14:22] <ubot5`> bug 1576282 in Ubuntu App Platform "Snaps built from deb can't be gettext translated" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576282
[14:22] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: I don't see how snapd is related at all. Are you looking at a particular comment?
[14:23] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, obviously we don’t need all the possible locale definitions that get installed with locales-all, only those that a user has on their system, and this is where snapd would come into play, it could expose them somehow to snaps
[14:30] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: Exposing? You still need to download them
[14:30] <kalikiana_> Which translates to a snap containing them
[14:32] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, right, so maybe there is a need for a locales snap
[14:36] <kalikiana_> oSoMoN: Well, we can see what timp thinks about it. since it's not a new bug or a regression I'm personally not fond of just adding it and potentially only revisiting it in a year
[14:37] <kalikiana_> We don't want to repeat the "why is libreoffice 10G" story :-P
[14:37] <oSoMoN> kalikiana_, I’m not fond of the workaround either, I’d rather have a clean solution agreed upon and implemented soon


[04:16] <jam> 800 line diff, but it is strictly a cut and paste of code from a couple giant files into small focused files: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8525


[00:17] <ochosi> ali1234: oh, hmm, so it's all fine for you? strange. i guess i have to test whether the docker container makes any difference
[00:18] <ali1234> it seems to be
[00:18] <ochosi> i mean functionally autohide and intelli-hide work as they should
[00:18] <ochosi> it just seemed like there were unwanted flickers
[00:19] <ochosi> caused by too many signals that made the panel hide/show more often than needed
[00:19] <ali1234> its possible
[00:20] <ochosi> did you hover the mouse over the top 3px when opening the menu?
[00:20] <ali1234> no?
[00:20] <ochosi> cause then the mouse stays on the autohide-window and triggers another hide/show
[00:20] <ochosi> anyway, i'll try to write down clearer reproducing instructions tomorrow
[00:21] <ali1234> okay i see
[00:21] <ali1234> i can reproduce that - but it seems to be because the window open right under the mouse
[00:22] <ali1234> something like this
[00:22] <ali1234> 1. mouse enters autohide window, triggering unhide
[00:22] <ali1234> 2. panel appears
[00:23] <ali1234> 3. autohide window disappears - at this point the mouse leaves the autohide window because the autohide window moved, triggering a hide event
[00:23] <ali1234> 4. panel gets hidden
[00:23] <ali1234> 5. autohide window moved back under the mouse
[00:23] <ali1234> 6. mouse is now in the autohide window triggering unhide
[00:23] <ali1234> repeat...
[00:24] <ali1234> if i click on the menu and then close it without moving the mouse the panel appears and reappears 3 times
[00:25] <ali1234> but yeah, i'd look carefully at the mouse input events
[00:29] <ochosi> yeah
[00:29] <ochosi> just not sure how to solve that or why it worked in gtk2
[00:37] <ali1234> signal order changed probably
[00:37] <ali1234> i'd verify that input events get disabled on the autohide window as soon as its state changes
[00:37] <ali1234> and before its position changes
[02:58] <bluesabre> Seems like the lp build bots are stuck
[15:45] <subhadip> Hi. I am a developer and I want to make myself useful in the Xubuntu development. Although I have gone through the articles mentioned on the website, I would like if somebody present here could talk about it or give me a pointer to begin with. Thanks.
[16:31] <genii> subhadip: It's a slow week, but if you idle in here something will eventually happen :)
[16:35] <subhadip> genii: I hope so :)
[18:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: Part of the use of the upgrade tool is to remove packages as well, I'm fairly certain we're going to want to add a few to that this time around.  Keeping in mind that config won't override user config though.
[18:49] <Unit193> Eg, we may not want to remove voluemd+-sound as pa-plug wouldn't get automatically added to the panel, -application, but mate/gnome switch is fine.
[21:56] <ochosi> subh: hi, what would you like to work on?
[22:32] <bluesabre> Unit193: makes sense. We also have some migration scripts that we may need to poke to update the keyboard shortcuts and whatnot
[22:32] <ochosi> hey bluesabre
[22:33] <Unit193> :3
[22:33] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[22:33] <bluesabre> hey Unit193
[22:33] <Unit193> Hellos.
[22:33] <ochosi> bluesabre: regarding the pa-plugin, what do you wanna do regarding flocculant's suggestions for the menu?
[22:33] <bluesabre> ochosi: was planning on just trying a few different layout options and see what we like
[22:35] <bluesabre> obviously somewhat limited with using a popup menu
[22:36] <ochosi> yup
[22:36] <ochosi> i would also try not to overload it
[22:36] <bluesabre> Yup
[22:36] <ochosi> so having all of this in one row seems a little excessive:
[22:37] <ochosi> [ icon | volumescale | switch | submenu> ]
[22:37] <bluesabre> I thought I might replace the current volume indicator icons with just a generic input/output device icon on the device selection above
[22:37] <ochosi> if there is such an icon in "the icon themes" then why not
[22:38] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:38] <ochosi> it's probably not what people are used to seeing there...
[22:38] <ochosi> but it could work ok
[22:38] <bluesabre> Yeah
[22:38] <bluesabre> Current version feels unbalanced
[22:38] <bluesabre> Volume indicator on a different row from the slider also feels wrong
[22:38] <bluesabre> So thought that would be the next experiment
[22:40] <ochosi> another suggestion is to go back to a larger icon with rowspan=2
[22:41] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:41] <ochosi> also, i think with the scale next to the icon it's little superfluous to have the icon update according to the volume state (apart from muted)
[22:41] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:42] <ochosi> the scale tells you much more nicely what the actual state is
[22:42] <bluesabre> except it doesn't convey muted at all
[22:42] <bluesabre> But the switch is right next to it
[22:42] <bluesabre> So thats fine
[22:43] <bluesabre> The icon gives the clearest indication of the current state
[22:44] <bluesabre> Another option is to move the scale row to the top and have the options below (if more than 1)
[22:44] <bluesabre> The icon identifies whether it is in or out and current state
[22:44] <bluesabre> The rest is just extra
[22:45] <ochosi> the scale could convey muted, but then you would have to set it to insensitive
[22:45] <ochosi> which would be a feature loss imo
[22:45] <bluesabre> Yup
[22:45] <ochosi> because it's nice to be able to control what volume you "unmute" to
[22:45] <bluesabre> I like adjusting volume before unmuting
[22:47] <ochosi> maybe moving the output below the scale would work better
[22:47] <bluesabre> Yeah
[22:47] <ochosi> than the bold text could also be dropped
[22:47] <ochosi> because it wouldn't be a headline anymore
[22:47] <bluesabre> Sounds like an improvement
[22:47] <ochosi> would make it more readable
[22:48] <ochosi> and the volume icon would just be a boolean
[22:48] <bluesabre> Might even be necessary since I'm going to add device channels at some point
[22:48] <ochosi> i still like the idea of having the icon itself used as "mute" button, but it's not discoverable enough
[22:54] <bluesabre> It might be
[22:54] <bluesabre> More things for me to play with
[22:55] <ochosi> regarding the xubuntu cycle, do you really wanna work on pidgin?
[22:55] <bluesabre> ochosi: only if I find that the patch doesn't take days to work out
[22:55] <ochosi> just because it's on our blueprint yet again
[22:56] <ochosi> (i'd personally like it because i like the theme and it was some work too)
[22:56] <bluesabre> Yup
[22:56] <bluesabre> I'd like to have it
[22:56] <bluesabre> More things to show off
[22:56] <bluesabre> Also saw
[22:56] <bluesabre>  [xubuntu-dev] thunar: Provide more default custom actions (printing, convert to pdf): TODO
[22:56] <bluesabre> I think you added this?
[22:56] <ochosi> yeah
[22:57] <ochosi> the printing can be done for images and especially pdfs with lpr
[22:57] <ochosi> very simple one
[22:57] <ochosi> if we want libreoffice support too, it'd have to be a bash-script so we can handle both
[22:58] <ochosi> and convert to pdf would work for .docx, .ods via libreoffice too
[22:58] <ochosi> for everything else we *could* use imagemagick, but it's probably too heavy to ship on our default image just for that
[22:58] <ochosi> (at least i think we don't ship it currently)
[22:59] <ochosi> i just felt thinking about some custom actions wouldn't hurt
[22:59] <ochosi> and those two i have on every laptop of mine, so i thought i'd propose them
[23:04] <bluesabre> ochosi: sounds handy
[23:04] <bluesabre> want to submit a MP or bug report with those?
[23:05] <bluesabre> We'll need translations for those, so getting them in earlier would be better
[23:07] <ochosi> yeah, the lpr one is almost done
[23:07] <bluesabre> Unit193: want to get some fresh packaging together for  [xubuntu-dev] elementary-xfce: Split packaging for distribution improvements: TODO ? We could land it in Xubuntu first and propose it to debian
[23:08] <ochosi> still lacking the "patterns" prat
[23:09] <Unit193> bluesabre: Who'd be maintaining it in Debian?  And could try and assist.
[23:10] <bluesabre> Unit193: probably us, elementary-xfce could go into pkg-xfce
[23:13] <ochosi> iirc we discussed adding all kinds of distro logos and handling symlinking to distributor-logo via the packaging
[23:14] <ochosi> then there would be no split packaging needed
[23:14] <ochosi> or did you have anything else in mind?
[23:15] <bluesabre> basically, it's packaged now as "xubuntu-icon-theme" in Ubuntu
[23:16] <bluesabre> it could be "elementary-xfce" and "xubuntu-icon-theme" could be a branded version that just provides the alt distributor-logo to the elementary-xfce themes
[23:16] <bluesabre> or smth
[23:17] <bluesabre> Gives more flexibility to flavors and our downstreams that we don't want using our logo
[23:17] <ochosi> right, the flavors argument makes sense
[23:18] <ochosi> i think pasi already prepped everything in the icon theme
[23:18] <bluesabre> and general availability in more than *buntu means more users and maybe more contributors
[23:18] <bluesabre> He did
[23:18] <bluesabre> Just need a packaging poke
[23:18] <ochosi> so be aware of that for the next upload
[23:18] <ochosi> indeed
[23:21] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'll probably take a look at libreoffice soon and send you some missing icon notes
[23:22] <ochosi> ah right, that too
[23:22] <ochosi> the save as icon is fairly prominent...
[23:23] <bluesabre> :)
[23:27] <bluesabre> ochosi: need anything else from me?
[23:27] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and general poke about all your Debian packages. :P
[23:28] <bluesabre> Unit193: indeed, need to refresh those
[23:28] <bluesabre> everything was easier when I could just svn-inject my updates
[23:28] <ochosi> bluesabre: well more patches would be nice ;)
[23:28] <Unit193> gbp is soooo much easier.
[23:29] <bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing, I'll start submitting more PRs when I can get away with symlinks or other people's work
[23:29] <bluesabre> you probably don't want my icon handiwork
[23:30] <Unit193> And you usually keep me far away from all things artwork and design too. :(
[23:31] <ochosi> symlinks should hopefully do a lot of the jobs
[23:36] <ochosi> i totally forgot how ridonculous the LO icon themes were...
[23:37] <bluesabre> :D
[23:39] <ochosi> pfff
[23:39] <ochosi> they added savemodified_extralarge.png
[23:39] <ochosi> used to be just "savemodified_large.png"
[23:40] <genii> I'm still waiting for all icons to be svg
[23:40] <bluesabre> ochosi, glad you're quick to find them though
[23:40] <ochosi> well...
[23:40] <ochosi> genii: the icons in my theme are svg
[23:40] <ochosi> they're just png-ified for LO
[23:40] <bluesabre> we should try to get these all fixed by Dec/Jan, LibreOffice 6 is due then, I believe
[23:41]  * genii pats ochosi on the back for good work
[23:41] <bluesabre> aha
[23:42] <bluesabre> Week 51 , Dec 18, 2017 - Dec 24, 2017 Libreoffice 6 UI freeze
[23:42] <bluesabre> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/6.0
[23:43]  * bluesabre appreciates having ochosi around
[23:45] <ochosi> crap, i have no idea anymore how pull requests against LO work with their gerrit :'(
[23:45] <ochosi> anyway, time to sleep
[23:45] <ochosi> (downside of having this merged to upstream)
[23:46] <bluesabre> nighty ochosi
[23:46] <Unit193> Could be worse, could be what KDE is using.


[12:05] <ebel> I am trying to add some people as admins to the loco team portal ( here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ie )
[12:05] <ebel> and airurando and czajkowski are now set, but i think in a few minutes it'll just revert
[12:05] <czajkowski> mhall119: ?
[12:06] <ebel> (this has happened before earlier today)
[12:06] <ebel> anyone know what's going on?
[12:08] <czajkowski> nigelb: cjohnston mhall119 any idea?
[12:09] <ebel> I /presume/ it's syncing with launchpad or something?
[12:09] <ebel> maybe
[12:12] <ebel> actually probably isn't that, since ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ie ) only lists me (rorymcc) as an admin, and mean-machine is still staying admin on LTP
[12:43] <ebel> ok it has revert again
[12:44] <ebel> probably this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/792475
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 792475 in loco-team-portal "Team admins getting reset (daily?)" [Medium,New]
[14:05] <mhall119> czajkowski: it pulls admins from Launchpad
[14:06] <mhall119> I didn't think we could even change it in lTP
[14:09] <mhall119> daker: ping
[14:09] <mhall119> ebel: you should add the admins in launchpad
[14:10] <ebel> mhall119: OK.
[14:10] <ebel> mhall119: but it's re-adding people who aren't admins on launchpad....
[14:17] <ebel> probably best to remove that edit option from the form if you can't actaully edit it
[14:22] <mhall119> ebel: yeah, I'm going to remove it
[15:01] <dholbach> can somebody please change "upgrade to lucid" in http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1443/detail/? :)
[15:02] <czajkowski> yup
[15:03] <czajkowski> dholbach: change to precise?
[15:03] <dholbach> oneiric→precise and lucid→precise
[15:03] <dholbach> as it's an LTS
[15:05] <czajkowski> done
[15:06] <dholbach> great
[15:10] <mhall119> czajkowski: I'm working on markdown wiki-style formatting for you on LTP
[15:15] <Daniel0108> is there a wiki page about how to become an approved loco?
[15:16] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
[15:16] <Daniel0108> oh, just found it
[15:16] <Daniel0108> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
[15:16] <Daniel0108> :P
[15:16] <Daniel0108> thanks anyways
[15:16] <czajkowski> first hit when googling
[15:17] <cjohnston> .10
[16:23] <ebel> OK, i've given the 2 users admin on LP and that's now shown on LTP.
[16:24] <ebel> however there's a user (Mean Machine) who's not an admin on LP, but LTP is still making them admin
[16:24] <ebel> this is weird
[16:33] <mhall119> ebel: I'll look into it, might be a cache problem
[16:33] <mhall119> how long ago did he stop being an admin?
[16:33] <czajkowski> 2+ yrs ago?
[16:34] <ebel> yeah, hasn't been admin on LP in aaaages
[16:35] <ebel> and the changes from LP from today (when i added new people) appeared
[16:35] <mhall119> hmmm, not likely cache then
[16:35] <mhall119> ebel: is he the team owner on Launchpad?
[16:36] <mhall119> ebel: he's still an admin of ~ubuntu-ie: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ie/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=75&active_start=75
[16:37] <ebel> aaaaah
[16:37] <mhall119> :)
[16:37] <ebel> fixed now
[16:38] <ebel> cheers
[16:55] <mhall119> cheers
[18:40] <Daniel0108> well, can we (the Austrian loco) get ubuntu-at.org without being approved?
[18:42] <mhall119> !loco-council ^^
[18:42] <ubot2> Factoid 'loco-council ^^' not found
[18:42] <mhall119> !loco-council
[18:42] <ubot2> Factoid 'loco-council' not found
[18:42] <mhall119> what?
[18:42] <mhall119> !loco_council
[18:42] <czajkowski> bah
[18:42] <ubot2> Factoid 'loco_council' not found
[18:42] <czajkowski> jpds: it's broken again
[18:42] <mhall119> dammit, it's one of those
[18:42] <czajkowski> lococouncil
[18:42] <czajkowski> !lococouncil
[18:42] <ubot2> The Loco Council is cprofitt, czajkowski, greg-g, itnet7, SergioMeneses and xdatap1 - they are there to help, just ask! :) You can send them an email at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:42] <czajkowski> huzzah
[18:42]  * czajkowski points mhall119 to the topic
[18:43] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, can we get it? :)
[18:43] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-at
[18:43] <czajkowski> let me see
[18:43] <mhall119> czajkowski: you mean I have to look all the way up there?  That's too difficult
[18:44] <jpds> Really?
[18:44] <czajkowski> jpds: eh no
[18:44] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, you can also see the launchpad page, I'm the owner of the lp team ;)
[18:44] <mhall119> jpds: I'm broken, can you fix me?
[18:44] <jpds> mhall119: Potentially.
[18:44] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: right gimmie a moment and let me see what the story is
[18:44] <czajkowski> it used to be hosted and done by different people
[18:44] <Daniel0108> okay, no problem
[18:45] <cjohnston> jpds: is there a code fix for mhall119 to upgrade him to version 1.0
[18:45] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, there were problems with the council and I talked to Wolf Rogner and he transferred it to me
[18:46] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: with which council
[18:46] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, tbh, I'm not sure, I just know it didn't exist anymore when I wanted to join, so I re-started it
[18:46] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: I dont know what council you're referring to
[18:47] <Daniel0108> I'm really not sure, sorry
[18:47] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, I just know there was a problem with marion (webbutterfly), because she used the loco to do advertisments (or something like that)
[18:47] <czajkowski> ok
[18:51] <Daniel0108> I'm not sure about the rest, but juliux knows more about it (at least I think so ;)), czajkowski
[18:51] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: atm I'm not sure I *think* its by mailing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but not 100% sure
[18:51] <Daniel0108> czajkowski, okay, what is the "rt"?
[18:51] <juliux> hi Daniel0108 czajkowski ;)
[18:52] <juliux> Daniel0108: what did you tried?
[18:52] <Daniel0108> juliux, I'm trying to get ubuntu-at.org
[18:52] <Daniel0108> for our loco website
[18:53] <juliux> czajkowski: as far as i know they just need to send a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get the dns key and/or dns changed as they have used that domain in the paste
[18:53] <czajkowski> juliux: rght as I said email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:54] <czajkowski> rt is request tracker
[18:54] <Daniel0108> ahh, okay
[18:54] <Daniel0108> thank you


[02:48] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:10] <ducasse> morning all
[12:10] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:10] <ducasse> \o BluesKaj
[12:10] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
[12:11] <ducasse> all good?
[12:14] <BluesKaj> yes, just fine thanks , and you?
[12:15] <ducasse> all well here, having a quiet day playing with my new tablet :)
[12:16] <BluesKaj> ahh nice, which tablet?
[12:18] <ducasse> asus zenpad 10. my neighbor decided they hated using it and gave it to me :)
[12:20] <BluesKaj> and how do you like it so far?
[12:25] <ducasse> it's great for me, has everything i need. 32gb storage, ok size (10"), microsd slot, great screen. i mostly wanted a tablet for reading ebooks, and for that it's great.
[12:28] <ducasse> now i'll start moving books over from calibre so i can read them on this. it also has niceties such as a recent android build, which is a bonus.
[12:41] <ducasse> bbl
[14:13] <ducasse> BluesKaj: hehe, i see crazytux is still doing his routine - when will he give up? ;)
[14:14] <BluesKaj> yeah, he's becoming a pita
[14:15] <ducasse> becoming? hasn't he been one for months and months?
[14:37] <DJones> ducasse: Just for info, if you're reading books on the kindle app on an android tablet, there's multiple apps on the play store that lists around 150-250  books available for free from the kindle store eg https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cleanenergy.freebooksbuddy&hl=en
[14:38] <DJones> ducasse: I normally find between 1-4 free kindle books per day
[14:39] <ducasse> oh, cool - thanks :) i've only been using google play books until now, haven't really looked for a nice reader...
[14:39] <DJones> There used to be one for kobo books as well, but thats disappeared from the play store
[14:39] <DJones> Maybe was only supported with older versions of android
[14:40] <DJones> I normally use fbreader on my tablet with books downloaded from the internet in epub/mobi format
[14:41] <DJones> Been using that since I has a HP Pocket PC
[14:43] <ducasse> i keep seeing recommendations of fbreader, must try that. now and then humble bundle have these bundles of tech books, i've bought a few to build up a small, portable reference library.
[14:52] <DJones> ducasse: Are you ok for a pm?
[14:52] <DJones> Re: books
[14:52] <ducasse> sure
[17:21] <ducasse> "i don't want an answer, i want several"?
[17:21] <daftykins> :O
[17:22] <ducasse> paraphrased, but essentially what he said...