[00:05] <badp_> Good night!
[00:43] <Tukon> anyone notice usb keyboard not working in x in kubuntu ibex alpha6
[00:43] <Tukon> ?
[00:45] <danbh_intrepid> they are out there, they are just having trouble responding
[01:02] <ethana2> Ok, so I have a verified 8.10a6 CD, and a partition set aside for it....
[01:02] <ethana2> anything I should know?
[01:03] <ethana2> Oh yeah, I want to use the GRUB on my 8.04.1 install, can it add itself to that without hijacking it?
[01:03] <RAOF> I don't know.
[01:03] <ethana2> hmm
[01:03] <danbh_intrepid> not unless you have a separate /boot, AFAIK
[01:03] <RAOF> I do know that grub2 works surprisingly well at doing that, though :)
[01:04] <ethana2> ohhhh, does hardy use grub 1.5?
[01:05]  * ethana2 scratches head
[01:06] <ethana2> oh that's right
[01:06] <ethana2> Dell did give me a seperate /boot
[01:09] <bsnider> RAOF, when's the new blob going to be ready?
[01:09] <ethana2> the new nVidia driver?
[01:09] <RAOF> I don't know?
[01:09] <bsnider> yes
[01:09]  * ethana2 goes to test new grub settings
[01:11] <`Matir> For some reason, whenever I go to a flash-enabled website, I get a grey box where the flash applet would be... using nspluginwrapper and flashplugin-nonfree on amd64
[01:12] <bsnider> you need ia32libs installed
[01:19] <ethana2> Ok, quick confirmation-- the intrepid alpha 6 install process is safe, correct?  Nothing nasty that's not in the release notes?
[01:19] <anmar> Hey guys. I am testing Alpha6 but want to test the ATI drivers.  Any ideas where I can go about doing that. I did try apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx but nothing really happened
[01:19] <RAOF> ethana2: It's been tested, and no showstopper bugs exist (that aren't noted).
[01:19] <anmar> ethana2: hmm... it is called "Alpha" so be careful
[01:20] <ethana2> Ok sweet, I'm doing this
[01:20] <RAOF> ethana2: That said, you might _find_ a showstopper bug.
[01:20] <ethana2> I was on hardy alpha 3..
[01:20] <anmar> RAOF: hehehe
[01:20] <ethana2> heh
[01:20] <dmoerner> anmar: no fglrx in intrepid
[01:20] <ethana2> I'm not entrusting it with the task of resizing any partitions, so whatever it does should be recoverable at least
[01:20]  * ethana2 kicks this pig
[01:21] <anmar> dmoerner: is that for the alpha release or for the final release?
[01:21] <dmoerner> anmar: but 247376
[01:21] <RAOF> anmar: Do we have a working fglrx driver yet?  I didn't think it supported our xserver.
[01:22] <anmar> dmoerner: thanks. I will check that out.
[01:22] <dmoerner> 8.9 is no help, they are hoping catalyst 8.10 will be out before intrepid releases
[01:22] <anmar> RAOF: I thought the latest 8.9 catalyst drivers work with 2.6.27 driver... but I am not sure.. let me check phoronix. they had an article on that.
[01:22] <RAOF> anmar: Yeah, works with the 2.6.27 kernel.  But not with xserver 1.5
[01:23] <RAOF> The kernel part being easiest to fix - that's actually the only thing we _can_ fix, because it's built from source.
[01:25] <anmar> RAOF: ah... i see... they need to update catalyst to work with Xserver 1.5.
[01:25] <RAOF> Yes.  Xserver 1.5 changed the video driver ABI.
[01:25] <bsnider> anmar, that's supposed to happen in about a month
[01:26] <anmar> RAOF: so as far as ATI 3D, I am stuck? or there is an open source 3D driver (i have ATI Radeon 3200)
[01:26] <anmar> bsnider: yeah.. there monthly release cycle. Cool. at least it is coming :)
[01:26] <RAOF> anmar: The default drivers should give you 2d, but there's no (released) open-source 3d driver for it.
[01:27] <bsnider> i thought xf86-video-ati would provide 3d for that card
[01:27] <dmoerner> not for the r600 serious
[01:27] <RAOF> 3200?  I don't think so, not unless you're using some git snapshots of mesa and the driver.
[01:27] <dmoerner> s/serious/series
[01:27] <anmar> RAOF: Yeah.. that is what I figured.  at least AMD is working on it in a consisten fashion
[01:27] <dmoerner> if you insist on using fglrx with intrepid you will have to go back to hardy's xserver: http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Intrepid_Installation_Guide
[01:28] <anmar> dmoerner: I misss  compiz but it is not that important of an issue. I think the desktop has more serious issues at the moment.
[01:29] <bsnider> isn't the radeon 3200 a really old card? the 8500 was like 6 years ago
[01:29] <RAOF> bsnider: No, you're confused by versioning.
[01:29] <bsnider> the new series isn't even called radeon anymore
[01:29] <bsnider> it's radeonhd
[01:29] <anmar> bsnider: the 3200 is an onboard video part of the AMD G780 chipset. I bought the board 4 months ago
[01:30] <bsnider> i c
[01:30] <RAOF> It went: 7xxx series, 8xxx series, 9xxx series, X200, X300, X600, X700, X1600, X2400, X3000, X4600 :)
[01:30] <dmoerner> actually they cut out the X too for newer radeon hds
[01:30] <anmar> RAOF: correct. Mine is X3200
[01:30] <RAOF> Of course, the X3000 shouldn't be confused with _Intel's_ X3000 chip :)
[01:31] <anmar> RAOF: lspci shows "Radeon HD 3200"
[01:31] <bsnider> well in that case the radonhd driver should be providing 3d to that chip within 6-12 months or so
[01:31] <anmar> bsnider: I prefer the open source driver but it is not a biggie
[01:31] <RAOF> And the radoen driver does so now, at least with unreleased development code.
[01:31] <RAOF> s/oe/eo/
[01:32] <anmar> RAOF: so I take it that using Kernel 2.6.27 is a final decision and will not be changing for the final release?
[01:32] <bsnider> it could change
[01:32] <bsnider> if there are too many showstoppers
[01:32] <RAOF> Open source driver development goes so much faster when (a) specs are released and (b) you pay a couple of devs to work on it full time. :/
[01:32] <anmar> bsnider: hmmm... interesting
[01:32] <RAOF> anmar: It looks like it'll be 2.6.27
[01:33] <bsnider> well, that's the case with the radeonhd driver, since it's being developed at novell
[01:33] <anmar> bsnider: oh... didn't know that.
[01:33] <RAOF> And the radeon driver, too.
[01:33] <anmar> ok. I will skip the ATI testing... One thing that confused me today with Alpha6 was the lack of empathy. I thougth it was going to replace pidgin. Is that still the case?
[01:34] <bsnider> with the ati cards, there are 3 drivers. the old ati driver, the new radeonhd driver, and fglrx
[01:34]  * RAOF still doesn't really know why there are two separate radeon drivers.
[01:34] <_Zeus_> whoa whoa, remove pidgin?
[01:34] <RAOF> anmar: No, it's not.  It's easy to install empathy, but it's not replacing pidgeon (yet).
[01:34] <anmar> _Zeus_: I remember reading that in a blog.
[01:35] <anmar> RAOF: no worries.. was just wondering as I expected that switch.
[01:35] <bsnider> empathy needs about 75 packages to do what pidgin does
[01:35] <anmar> bsnider: true... but it is more of a framework than an app
[01:35] <RAOF> bsnider: True, but only because each backend is essentially a plugin.
[01:35] <RAOF> And 75 is a bit of an exaggeration :)
[01:36] <bsnider> show me how it's better than pidgiin
[01:36] <bsnider> it ain't
[01:36] <RAOF> It does video & voice :)
[01:36] <anmar> well the UI leaves a lot to be desired
[01:37] <anmar> but overall, I like the fact that it is a framework and not just an app or library
[01:37] <bsnider> there's lots of voip programs that do that
[01:37] <RAOF> It integrates better with gnome.  Oh, and empathy-megaphone-applet rocks.
[01:37] <anmar> RAOF: you tried megaphone?
[01:38] <RAOF> But you're right.  It's not sufficiently better than pidgin to swap at this point.  I expect (a) it will improve the UI, and (b) other things will build on the framework, making it a compelling choice in a release or two.
[01:39] <bsnider> it's not better than kopete either
[01:39] <bsnider> actually kopete is in many ways better htan pidgin
[01:41] <bsnider> unfortunately it has an alarming tendency to kill gnome
[01:41] <_Zeus_> empathy doesn't sound as good as pidgin
[01:41] <_Zeus_> no plugins-blah
[01:42] <_Zeus_> *=
[01:42] <_Zeus_> the lack of new message marker alone is enough to stay in pidgin
[01:42] <RAOF> New message marker?
[01:43] <anmar> _Zeus_: There is no doubt that Pidgin is better that Empathy. However, i think empathy is going in the right direction.  Having a framework available (telepathy) will be very helpful for GNOME and all of its applications.
[01:43] <bsnider> pidgin's updated msn support made it the best on gnome
[01:44] <_Zeus_> RAOF: it puts a red line in chats where you stopped reading
[01:44] <Volkodav> anybody has skype not starting after recent update ?
[01:44] <_Zeus_> so when you comd back, you can tell where to start from
[01:44] <_Zeus_> Volkodav: x64? yes
[01:44] <Volkodav> same here on x64
[01:44] <Volkodav> what's the deal ?
[01:44] <_Zeus_> Volkodav: something about libQtDBus.so.4?
[01:45] <Volkodav> yeap
[01:45] <_Zeus_> yeah, i got that too
[01:45] <_Zeus_> Volkodav: you might want to try getlibs, although tthat failed for me
[01:46] <Volkodav> I still did not reboot yet
[01:46] <Volkodav> lemme reboot
[01:51] <derekS> hey all, i am having trouble with xorg. I did a fresh install on a system that had hardy. I save the xorg config (have had it for years). I tried to use it in intrepid and it didn't work. typically  I can look for the "EE" in the log but the xorg log doesn't have it? xorg now boots into the ugly failsafe mode. any suggestions on what has changed?
[01:51] <anmar> derekS: what hardware do you have?
[01:51] <derekS> nvidia
[01:52] <ethana2> Ok, when Intrepid asked whether or not to install a bootloader, I said 'no', because I want that to be handled from hardy
[01:52] <anmar> derekS: I have ATI and the driver (from ATI) doesn't work with the new server (version 1.5) as they changed things.  It could be the same issue
[01:53] <ethana2> ..of course, this leaves me to set it up manually
[01:53] <anmar> derekS: I assume you are using the open source driver. right?
[01:53] <derekS> anmar: how do i figure it out? i just want to see the logs...
[01:53] <derekS> anmar: no, the nvidia driver from restricted
[01:54] <anmar> derekS: hmmm.... it could be something similar to my issue.
[01:54] <derekS> anmar: how can i diagnose it?
[01:54] <anmar> derekS: I usually frequent this site for very helpful information (http://www.phoronix.com)
[01:55] <anmar> derekS: you can gall down to the command prompt and check out the logs In /var/log/Xorg.log (i think)
[01:55] <derekS> anmar: the xorg logs are overwritten...
[01:55] <derekS> with the failsafe xorg config
[01:56] <ethana2> Ok, how do I set up a grub entry for my new 8.10 install?
[01:56] <RAOF> derekS: /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old will contain what you're after.
[01:57]  * ethana2 has mounted the intrepid partition and is scouting for kernels
[01:57] <derekS> RAOF: thanks! let me check, i thought i looked there
[01:57] <Volkodav> still same shit _Zeus_
[01:58] <_Zeus_> Volkodav: yeah, i didn't figure it out
[01:58] <_Zeus_> i downgraded to x86 when a6 went out
[01:58] <ethana2> !ohmy
[01:59]  * ethana2 has located the kernels, adding them to menu.lst...  What is this UUID thing?
[01:59] <_Zeus_> eh
[01:59] <Volkodav> they must be a fix though
[01:59] <_Zeus_> it's there so if your root gets renamed (eg, sda-sdb) you can still boot
[01:59] <_Zeus_> Volkodav: i googled forever and none of the fixes worked
[01:59] <ethana2> ahhh
[02:00] <ethana2> _Zeus_: what would cause that to happen?
[02:00] <Volkodav> that sux0rz
[02:00] <_Zeus_> ethana2: eh, i dunno.  I just use the real name (/dev/sdan)
[02:00] <_Zeus_> never had a problem
[02:00] <RAOF> ethana2: Plugging in a new harddrive, having a USB stick plugged in on boot, a kernel upgrade changing names (hda->sda, for example).
[02:08] <ethana2> hmm, you know, I don't want to do this improperly
[02:08] <ethana2> how do I find the UUID of a partition?
[02:09] <RAOF> ethana2: blkid, I believe.
[02:09] <RAOF> As in "blkid /dev/sda5"
[02:09] <ethana2> i did a 'man blkid'
[02:09] <ethana2> but thanks
[02:17] <DanaG> vol_id -u /dev/whatever works too.
[02:17] <DanaG> er, sudo it.
[02:18] <ethana2> ok yeah, i can't get the usage for blkid right and i don't know why
[02:19]  * ethana2 does vol_id -u, checks man
[02:23] <ethana2> wait, root		(hd0,5)?  Where does 5 come into this?
[02:23] <RAOF> The bios.
[02:23] <DanaG> Grub numbering starts at zero.
[02:24] <DanaG> Kernel numbering starts at 1.
[02:24] <RAOF> And 'a', too.
[02:25] <ethana2> ...so my hardy install is on its fifth kernel?
[02:25]  * ethana2 is confused now
[02:25] <RAOF> No, it's on the 6th partition of the 1st harddrive.
[02:26] <ethana2> oohhhhhh
[02:26] <ethana2> Aha.  So /dev/sda6 is  (hd0,5), and /dev/sda3 would be (hd0,2)
[02:27] <RAOF> Yes (although there's actually no guarantee that sda is hd0)
[02:27] <ethana2> pretty sure it is on my system
[02:27] <RAOF> Yeah, it probably is.
[02:29] <anmar> RAOF: bsnider: thanks for all the help guys. time to switch back to hardy :)
[02:30] <alksldkjfkasld> hey everyone
[02:31] <arooni> i am having problems getting dual mon working on intrepid daily.  everything works great when i use nvidia twinview within the os.  but when i save off to the xorg file
[02:31] <arooni> and restart;  i get an error
[02:39] <keanu> hmm...I think there's a bug that could cause seizures in those with epilepsy - with firefox in full screen mode and another window in focus, alt+tabbing to the firefox window and only releasing the tab key (so the "alt window" stays open) causes a bunch of flickering
[03:02] <alksjdaf> i have intrepid with a p43 chipset and network wireless card that has a rtl-8185L chipset... card gets detected by ubuntu and i can *TRY* to connect to wireless networks... but with a wpa network even if i enter the password i cant login :(
[03:20] <papna> I'm trying to install Intrepid Alpha 6 on an old laptop of mine. When I try to boot up with the LiveCD to install or try Ubuntu, it does not work. I get to a terminal instead of where I am supposed to be. Can anyone help me?
[03:23] <papna> I tried `startx', which complains that `Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration' and `Fatal server error: no screens found   giving up'.
[03:24] <papna> I was about to go playing with xorg.conf, but I gather that the operation of X has changed a bit to allow flexibility.
[04:30] <DanaG> argh... stupid Flash... just gave me a hard-lockup, somehow.
[04:37] <nalioth> flash is evil
[04:37] <DanaG> Yup.
[05:03] <teethdood> any reported issues with upgrading from 8.04?
[05:58] <alksjdaf> rtl-8185l chipset wireless card is having a hard time remembering my wep key... everytime i login i have to authenticate.....  though once i do it works fine
[06:06] <DanaG> I've had that with an Intel 2200 card, too.
[06:12] <alksjdaf> DanaG, do devs know about it
[06:12] <DanaG> Beats me.  I fixed it, but I don't remember how.
[06:12] <DanaG> Oh yeah, for one thing, I made the network a "System Setting" -- so it should work even without X running.
[06:13] <DanaG> argh, damn flash just crashed in the MIDDLE of a video.
[06:13]  * DanaG hates Flash.
[06:21] <badfish> help!
[06:21] <badfish> someone talk to me who isn't a bot
[06:30] <armornick> hey guys, will Intrepid have a customized install? (i.e. you can choose which programs to install)
[06:48] <usser_> what version iwl3945 is in intrepid?
[06:49] <DanaG>  1.2.26ks
[06:50] <usser_> cool, anybody had a weird problem when after returning from suspend iwl3945 driver would cause the keyboard to get stuck
[06:50] <jayde_drag0n> i'm hoping someone can help, the forums andf google results have not helped (ati graphics driver) installed and in use, all nvidia stuff... installed and in use.. yet i cannot get any more than 800 resolution.. and running sudo nvidia-xconfig just says "congrats its re-written.. with no results
[06:51]  * RAOF is saved from that problem by not having working suspend!
[06:51] <usser_> the symptoms are. upon returning from suspend keyboard works and as soon as network manager starts connecting to a wireless network it locks the keyboard
[06:51] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Do you really mean ati _and_ nvidia?
[06:51] <usser_> toggling the wifi kill switch fixes it
[06:52] <usser_> this is weird!!
[06:53] <usser_> dmesg shows absolutely nothing
[06:54] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: i mean when i goto system>administration>hardware drivers   it allowed me to checkmark enable ati graphics thingys.. i did so... no result  cannot change the resolution.. i followed all forum advice and installed all the nvidia stuff (it already was.. ran the x server settings and it told me to run sudo nvidia-xconfig.. i did.. it said it rewrote some xorg. file thingy.. but i still cannot make my screen smaller than 800 by wh
[06:54] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Well, that's guaranteed not to work.
[06:55] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: You can't have both fglrx and nvidia drivers installed and expect either to work :)
[06:56] <DanaG> nvidia drivers also break Intel 3D.
[06:56] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: So, you need to work out whether you have an ATi or nvidia graphics card.
[06:56] <DanaG> =þ
[06:56] <DanaG> So... on laptops with switchable GPUs, you have to choose one or the other.
[06:56] <RAOF> nvidia drivers break *
[06:57] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: ati radeon
[06:57] <crdlb> jayde_drag0n: which model exactly?
[06:57] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: not to mention that the nvidia drivers were already installed.. not something that I did
[06:57] <RAOF> So, the _first_ thing you need to do is to remove nvidia-glx-*
[06:58] <RAOF> There was a packaging bug where nvidia-glx was accidentally installed, yes.
[06:58] <DanaG> Don't you just love closed-source drivers that replace part of Xorg?
[06:58] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: can i just use synaptic and untick them? or can i only untick some and have to leave others?
[06:58] <DanaG> ... and thus break everything else.
[06:58] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Yes.  Just untick all of them.
[06:59] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: okay hold i will do that and then come back to continue my instruction oh wise ubuntu guru
[06:59] <crdlb> RAOF: ouch, where was the dep added?
[06:59] <RAOF> crdlb: I forget.  It was some time ago, too.
[07:01] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: it wants to remove "linux restricted modules" when i unchecked everything that said nvidia.. continue anyway?
[07:02] <RAOF> Hm.  I wonder what's taking that away.
[07:02] <DanaG> nvidia-common.
[07:02] <RAOF> Ah.  Don't remove that, then.
[07:02] <jayde_drag0n> k
[07:02]  * DanaG goes off to try nouveau again...
[07:04] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: okay done.. now what
[07:04] <RAOF> So, now we work out what card you have.
[07:05] <RAOF> Actually, we don't need to do that at all.
[07:05] <RAOF> So, now we remove the fglrx drivers.
[07:06] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: lol i was just about to question that.. okay.. lead the way what names am i looking for?
[07:06] <RAOF> xorg-driver-fglrx, I think.
[07:06] <jayde_drag0n> apt-get uninstall?
[07:07] <crdlb> RAOF: hah, I guess fglrx is still broken?
[07:07] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Indeed.
[07:07] <RAOF> crdlb: Yup.  No Xserver 1.5 support for you!
[07:07] <DanaG> Hmm.... better than before, but not entirely better.
[07:07] <DanaG> Handy site: phoronix.com
[07:07] <jayde_drag0n> no thats not the right code
[07:07] <DanaG> I look there about once a week, or so.
[07:07] <jayde_drag0n> apt-get remove?
[07:08] <crdlb> jayde_drag0n: yes
[07:08] <jayde_drag0n> 10q
[07:08] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: oka done
[07:09] <RAOF> Now, 'sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf ~/xorg.conf.backup'.
[07:09] <RAOF> Get rid of the old xorg.conf entirely, but keep a backup.
[07:09] <jayde_drag0n> k done
[07:09] <jayde_drag0n> well i ran that code.. it didn't do anything that i saw
[07:09] <RAOF> Now, log out, and I think everything should be peachy.
[07:10] <jayde_drag0n> don't i need to go back in and enable the ati driver again.. i checked and saw it was un-enabled
[07:10] <jayde_drag0n> or do that after i log out
[07:10] <RAOF> You don't do that at all, because it won't work.
[07:11] <jayde_drag0n> okay i'll be back and tell you the result
[07:13] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: everything is still HUGE :-(
[07:13] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Would you kindly pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[07:14] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: can you give me the sudo code to make that come up?
[07:14] <RAOF> "sudo aptitude install pastebinit"
[07:14] <RAOF> Then "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
[07:14] <jayde_drag0n> and that will give you the code from the log???
[07:14] <RAOF> Yes
[07:14] <jayde_drag0n> nifty
[07:15] <RAOF> Or, rather, it will return a URL which you'll need to give to me.
[07:16] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[07:16] <jayde_drag0n> er
[07:16] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f2b39bcec
[07:18] <RAOF> Hm.  Can you do the same thing for /var/log/Xorg.0.log.oldL
[07:18] <RAOF> Hm.  Can you do the same thing for /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old?
[07:18] <jayde_drag0n> yah sorry went and smoked while you read it
[07:19] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f4650faa9
[07:20] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Urgh.  Can you (a) make sure that /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't exist, and (b) that xserver-xorg-video-ati is installed?
[07:21] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: i can do the second but how do i do the first?
[07:21] <RAOF> ls /etc/X11
[07:22] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: i believe it does exist.. that gave a response
[07:22] <RAOF> Make sure that there isn't a "xorg.conf" file there.  Or you can run "ls /etc/X11 | pastebinit -" to copy the output to a pastebin.
[07:22] <DanaG> ARgh, Ikeep getting random hard-lockups, perhaps from nouveau.
[07:22] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: It will give output.  You want to make sure that the output doesn't contain 'xorg.conf'.
[07:22] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f7ab097af
[07:23] <jayde_drag0n> the output does contain those words
[07:23] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Gah.  'sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf ~/xorg.conf.backup2'
[07:23] <jayde_drag0n> okay now make sure the other thingy is installed right?
[07:23] <RAOF> Yes.
[07:24] <jayde_drag0n> "already at its newest version
[07:24] <RAOF> Good.  Now, can you make sure that "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" doesn't exist again? :)
[07:25] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f1f3dc0cf
[07:25] <RAOF> Excellent.
[07:25] <RAOF> Now, let's go for a restart.  Logging off should work, but let's be sure.
[07:25] <jayde_drag0n> lol i was just about to ask that
[07:25] <jayde_drag0n> brb
[07:29] <jayde_drag0n> still huge.. no new resultion options
[07:30] <DanaG> Hmm, nouveau is still making Xorg take 10% to 20% CPU... but it's better than it was.
[07:30] <RAOF> Can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old again?
[07:30] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: and also when i boot up .. like before (forgot to mention) i get "ubuntu is in low graphics mode... something something cannot detect correctly"
[07:31] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Right.  In that case, just pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old again :)
[07:31] <jayde_drag0n> just put pastebinit in front of that line?
[07:31] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:32] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f58258474
[07:32] <RAOF> ARGH!  Why is it using xorg.conf.failsafe?!
[07:33] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: also i don't get the splash loading screen anymore .. the progess bar part.. it gives me lots of text.. and there is an error in "mounting local filesystems : no final newline in etc/fstab"
[07:34] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: even tho it appears to have mounted everything just fine
[07:34] <RAOF> Right.  So, something's gone wrong in your Xorg.
[07:34] <RAOF> Let's just reinstall all of Xorg!
[07:34] <DanaG> RAOF: try to look in /var/log/gdm -- sometimes GDM just gets screwed up.
[07:34] <jayde_drag0n> okay! lead on
[07:34] <DanaG> It'll get stuck in failsafe even when you fix the problem.
[07:34] <RAOF> sudo aptitude reinstall ~nxserver
[07:34] <jayde_drag0n> with the tilde?
[07:34] <DanaG> ~n ?
[07:34] <RAOF> Yes.
[07:34] <DanaG> what's that about?
[07:34] <crdlb> aptitude crack
[07:35] <DanaG> so THAT's how you give aptitude wildcards.
[07:35] <RAOF> ~n means "match based on package name"
[07:35] <RAOF> There are actually a bunch of match operators; ~n is just the one I use the most.
[07:35] <DanaG> I never managed to figure this out... if I use just ordinary wildcards... it rejects it as "matching multiple items" -- well, DUH, it's a WILDCARD!
[07:35] <jayde_drag0n> ooooOOOOooohhh nifty
[07:35] <DanaG> But thanks for that tilde -- it'll be way handy.
[07:35]  * DanaG ♥ aptitude.
[07:35] <jayde_drag0n> okay done
[07:36] <RAOF> Really?  That should have taken some time :)
[07:36] <DanaG> oh yeah, nouveau+apic=force == ouchie.
[07:36] <DanaG> s/+/ + /
[07:36] <DanaG> er, hpet=force
[07:36] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Now, let's check that xorg.conf doesn't exist _again_, then log out.
[07:37] <DanaG> Hmm... since when does a celeron support c-states?
[07:37] <jayde_drag0n> pastebin the var logs again?
[07:38] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Pastebin the "ls /etc/X11 | pastebinit -"
[07:38] <crdlb> doesn't gdm reuse the X server by default?
[07:38] <RAOF> crdlb: Nope, don't think so.
[07:39] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f1b1c8364
[07:39] <RAOF> crdlb: I happily swap nvidia/nouveau by logging out.
[07:39] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Excellent.  Let's play restart again!
[07:39] <crdlb> there's definitely an option for it, and I thought it was the default
[07:39] <jayde_drag0n> i have a dumb question tho
[07:39] <jayde_drag0n> if we don't want xorg.conf... why would we have installed xorg in the first place... second place
[07:40] <crdlb> lol
[07:40] <crdlb> because Xorg is somewhat important
[07:40] <RAOF> Xorg is the thing which does all the graphical stuf.
[07:40] <jayde_drag0n> but doesn't just having xorg install its config file?
[07:40] <RAOF> _All_ the graphical stuff is done by Xorg.
[07:40] <RAOF> It doesn't need xorg.conf any more.
[07:40] <teethdood> xorg.conf is the "old confusing" method
[07:41]  * DanaG goes off to S£33Þ.
[07:41] <jayde_drag0n> ahhh okee.. brb again
[07:41] <DanaG> How do you pass options to nvidia driver without xorg.conf?
[07:41] <RAOF> You don't.
[07:41] <crdlb> RAOF: does failsafe in intrepid work differently than in hardy and < ?
[07:41] <crdlb> DanaG: "how do you use the nvidia driver without xorg.conf?"
[07:41] <DanaG> Then what about all these nifty options I commented here:
[07:41] <DanaG> Aah.
[07:41] <teethdood> 5 minutes til my upgrade -c -d forcing me to reboot. Hopefully I'll come back up
[07:41] <DanaG> Oh yeah, handy nvidia stuff: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/xorg.conf
[07:42] <DanaG> It doesn't have the sharedpixmaps and such tweaks nvidia recommends on the latest 177, though.
[07:42] <crdlb> RAOF: because, with the old failsafe, it tries multiple vesa modes, which means bye-bye logs if the first try isn't successful
[07:43] <RAOF> crdlb: Hm, maybe.
[07:43] <RAOF> Dunno.
[07:44] <DanaG> Oh hey, how do you decrease the horizontal icon spacing on nautilus desktop?
[07:44] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: no and no... are you SURE i don't have to enable the ati driver?
[07:44] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Yes.  I'm sure.
[07:44] <jayde_drag0n> k
[07:45] <RAOF> So, pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log again :/
[07:45] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f48415d52
[07:45] <crdlb> DanaG: by turning on use compact layout for the nautilus icon view monde?
[07:45] <crdlb> mode*
[07:46] <RAOF> DanaG: What was that about gdm?
[07:46] <DanaG> Look in /var/log/gdm... sometimes it puts a failsafe.log file there.
[07:46] <DanaG> Perhaps it's triggering on that?
[07:46] <RAOF> Wah?  What happened to libdri?
[07:46] <RAOF> Why is libdri still broken?
[07:48] <elmargol> I'm wondering if there are usb stick images for intrepid?
[07:49] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Can you 'ls /var/log/gdm | pastebinit -'?
[07:49] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f22398ec2
[07:50] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Can you pastebinit /var/log/gdm/failsafe.log
[07:50] <jayde_drag0n> and of course.. i can do anything you ask me to so long as directions are provided :-)
[07:50] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f332b38dc
[07:52] <RAOF> DanaG: Gah!  Help!
[07:52] <RAOF> How does one deal with failsafe X?
[07:52] <DanaG> I have disabled it on my systems, because it's a royal pain.
[07:52] <RAOF> How do you do that?
[07:53] <DanaG> #this is a comment
[07:53] <DanaG> argh
[07:53] <DanaG> keyboard lag.... lost an entire chat line!
[07:54] <DanaG> you comment out the FailsafeXServer line in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[07:54] <DanaG> Try to just rm that failsafe log there, though.  then restart GDM.
[07:54] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: ^^^.  Let's try that; sudo rm /var/log/gdm/failsafe.log
[07:55] <jayde_drag0n> k
[07:55] <jayde_drag0n> gdm = gnome desktop manager?
[07:56] <RAOF> Gnome display manager, I think.
[07:56] <jayde_drag0n> okay now reboot?
[07:56] <RAOF> Yeah, why not.
[07:57] <jayde_drag0n> lol allrighty..    sienot..  am so tired of things being huge.. i wish it could just be done thru force
[07:57] <jayde_drag0n> er side note
[07:57]  * DanaG hates the FailsafeXServer thing.
[07:58] <DanaG> Oh yeah, another feature: http://https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/257809
[07:58] <DanaG> Good thing it's no longer a dependency of ubuntu-desktop.
[07:58] <DanaG> ... or rather, it was a dependency of displayconfig-gtk, which has been removed.
[08:00] <jayde_drag0n> *sigh*
[08:01] <jayde_drag0n> so .. dumb question again.. we can't use the restricted driver because it doesn't work in ibex? it was working in hardy
[08:01] <DanaG> Old card, or new card?
[08:01] <DanaG> Oh wait, ati, not nvidia, right?
[08:01] <jayde_drag0n> yes
[08:01] <DanaG> I don't remember which.
[08:01] <jayde_drag0n> ati
[08:01] <DanaG> I have the "nvidia to old" thing on my spare laptop I'm currently using.
[08:02] <jayde_drag0n> same card as i've had at least 2 years
[08:02] <DanaG> s/to/too/ -- agh, key lag.
[08:02] <DanaG> I haven't dealt with fglrx or radeon/radeonhd at all in... oh, since the 9800 Pro era.
[08:02] <DanaG> I'll be going back to ATI next time, though -- hopefully this or next month.
[08:03] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: You can't use fglrx because it doesn't work in intrepid, yes.
[08:03] <jayde_drag0n> k
[08:03] <RAOF> And I think your card might no longer be supported by fglrx, anyway :)
[08:03] <DanaG> No X Server 1.4 / 1.5 / whatever support.
[08:03] <DanaG> What card?
[08:03] <elmargol> Do i still need the alternate cd to create an encrypted installation?
[08:03] <RAOF> elmargol: I believe so, ye.s
[08:04] <jayde_drag0n> and that means what to me? i have to reinstall hardy and never again ponder upgrading or i'll be stuck with a resolution on crack?
[08:05] <elmargol> can I suspend using a encrypted swap? :D
[08:05] <DanaG> What video card?
[08:05] <DanaG> The open-source drivers have gotten much better in recent times, I've read.
[08:05] <RAOF> elmargol: Yes.
[08:06] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: You _should_ be able to use the free drivers.  I can't quite work out why they're not working.
[08:06] <jayde_drag0n> i was trying to avoid having to turn everything off.. move stuff around.. find a flashlight... write numbers down.. reboot and look up the dang card in google
[08:06] <RAOF> In fact, it should _automatically_ just work for you.
[08:06] <RAOF> Yeah, I wouldnt' bother doing that.
[08:06] <jayde_drag0n> it _did_ work for me automatically.... in hardy
[08:06] <DanaG> lspci can help.
[08:06] <DanaG> or rather, lspci -nn
[08:06] <DanaG> (don't always need -v .)
[08:07] <jayde_drag0n> Radeon 9550
[08:07] <jayde_drag0n> thank the gods for that command
[08:07] <RAOF> jayde_drag0n: Hm.  Can you run "dpkg-divert --list * | pastebinit -"?
[08:08] <RAOF> I think the reason why things aren't working is that something's breaking your libdri, and the same something might be breaking your radeon drivers.
[08:08] <jayde_drag0n> ugh "KeyboardInterrupt caught."
[08:08]  * DanaG must go off to bed....
[08:08] <DanaG> Sat Sep 20 00:08:30 PDT 2008
[08:08] <DanaG> ... yeah.
[08:08] <DanaG> Oh yeah, is nouveau faster with composite off, or with it on?
[08:09] <DanaG> And can it do xv without b0rked colors?
[08:09] <RAOF> It should!
[08:09] <jayde_drag0n> hey is this important "jayde@MASTER:~$ sudo apt-get install libdri
[08:09] <jayde_drag0n> Reading package lists... Done
[08:09] <jayde_drag0n> Building dependency tree
[08:09] <jayde_drag0n> Reading state information... Done
[08:09] <jayde_drag0n> E: Couldn't find package libdri"
[08:09] <DanaG> gacj
[08:09] <DanaG> gaack
[08:10] <RAOF> No.  It's a part of xorg.
[08:10] <jayde_drag0n> lol okay.. thought i'd try
[08:10] <RAOF> Have you pastebinned "dpkg-divert --list * | pastebinit -"?
[08:10] <jayde_drag0n> i said it wouldn't let me
[08:11] <jayde_drag0n> "KeyboardInterrupt caught."
[08:11] <RAOF> Hm.
[08:11] <RAOF> Can you try again?
[08:11] <DanaG> try without '*'
[08:11] <RAOF> Oh, cool.  That works!
[08:11] <jayde_drag0n> http://pastebin.com/f4f498c66
[08:12] <RAOF> You appear to still have xorg-driver-fglrx installed!
[08:12] <RAOF> Either that, or it left the diversion in place when you uninstalled it.
[08:13] <DanaG> The selected video_out device is incompatible with this codec.
[08:13] <DanaG> Try appending the scale filter to your filter list,
[08:13] <DanaG> e.g. -vf spp,scale instead of -vf spp.
[08:13] <DanaG> that's from mplayer.
[08:13] <jayde_drag0n> shortly it will NOT be installed
[08:14] <jayde_drag0n> done... no longer installed
[08:14] <jayde_drag0n> _completely_ removed
[08:14] <RAOF> Then, 'sudo aptitude reinstall ~nxserver`, then log out.
[08:14] <RAOF> I believe this will fix the world.
[08:14] <DanaG> omg, awesome:
[08:14] <DanaG> Totem was not able to play this disc.
[08:15] <DanaG> No reason.
[08:15] <DanaG> It actually literally said those two lines.
[08:15] <DanaG> =þ
[08:16] <jayde_drag0n> brb again
[08:18] <DanaG> Ugh, colors are still screwy.
[08:19] <RAOF> File a bug with the nouveau guys?
[08:19] <jayde_drag0n> RAOF: omg you are awesome... now.. LOL want to tackle 3 other problems?  one pre-existing?
[08:20] <jayde_drag0n> the other 2 might be realy simple.. i just lack the knowledge
[08:20] <philip__> after upgrading, I get "no greeter widget plugin loaded. Check configuration" X fails to load
[08:21]  * DanaG now goes off to bed for real.
[08:24] <jayde_drag0n> firefox will not download anything on clicking anymore.. i have to specifically right click save as  or else nothing will hapen when you click on a download link
[08:26] <philip__> ok so Ibex doesn't have KDE4.1, but I installed KDE4.1 in my Hardy. Upgrade borked KDE hence the error
[08:30] <philip__> stupid question but
[08:30] <philip__> how do I set the default to gnome instead of KDE, since KDE failed
[08:31] <philip__> ok, modify /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[08:35] <rconan> horay my upgrade has finished... is there any reason I shouldn't restart immediately?
[08:42] <Lynoure> rconan: you are the best person to answer that, I guess. If you want, you can check various configuration files for existence/sanity first
[08:46] <rconan> well... it seems i am one of the lucky ones
[08:47] <rconan> apart from the RgbPath in my /etc/X11/xorg.conf I have had no issues
[08:47] <rconan> (at least it starts up)
[08:49] <yavapai> nickserv
[08:50] <hyper_ch> hmmm, does skype from the medibuntu repos run for someone?
[08:52] <yavapai> any body have a external hard drive with ext3 that works? my usb hd spikes 2.6.27 to 100% and dosnt mount
[08:55] <teethdood> wth
[08:56] <teethdood> I opened Places|Home and VLC starts up, displaying all the pics in my home
[08:56] <ailean> struggling to upgrade packages. W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/app-install-data-ubuntu/app-install-data_0.6.6_all.deb
[08:56] <ailean>   404 Not Found.  Can someone help?
[08:57] <Lynoure> ailean: you could try some of the other mirrors?
[08:58] <Lynoure> ailean: or, actually, pastebin your sources.list
[08:58] <ailean> ok Lynoure - 2 secs :)
[08:59] <Lynoure> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/app-install-data-ubuntu/ has various versions, no 0.6.6 though, but 0.6.8
[08:59] <ailean> that sorted it Lynoure thanks
[09:00] <yavapai> lynore  me too
[09:00] <Lynoure> might be something simple apt-get update fixes (something changing between last update and the upgrade)
[09:01] <yavapai> thanks
[09:01] <hyper_ch> huhu Lynoure
[09:02] <ailean> Lynoure, ach i caused myself a load of problems with the xserver.  my title bars no longer show up
[09:02] <Lynoure> hyper_ch: yes?
[09:02] <hyper_ch> Lynoure: you run 64bit?
[09:02] <Lynoure> hyper_ch: no...
[09:02] <hyper_ch> ok
[09:03] <Lynoure> ailean: if it's in Gnome, I would not really know about that, sorry
[09:03] <cyphase> what's the box that pops up in the top-left corner when you run the screen resolution utility for?
[09:03] <ailean> Lynoure, thanks :)
[09:07] <darthanubis> why does the sound die after a while?
[09:08] <darthanubis> it seems as though pulse is broken
[09:08] <darthanubis> I have to reboot before I can regain audio
[09:09] <badp> Morning
[09:09] <darthanubis> videos won't play because it seems to be waiting for the audio to be in sync
[09:09] <badp> Is it me or Intrepid's Transmission cannot be reduced to the tray?
[09:10] <badp> I'm a button away from submitting the bug report, figured I'd be better off asking for confirmation though.
[09:49] <rconan> anyone used ubuntu with a Marvell 88SE6121?
[09:49] <rconan> It seems to have loaded pata_marvell but I don't see the drives on it
[09:50] <Hobbsee> rconan: do you need to use ndiswrapper for that?
[09:51] <rconan> it's a storage controller so no
[09:51] <Hobbsee> oh, i guessed it was a wifi card.
[09:52] <rconan> there were clues (module name being pata_marvell and my referal to drives)
[09:52] <rconan> i guess i could have been more clear
[09:53] <Stevko> Hello. I today installed linux-image-2.6.27-3-generic (i was running linux-image-2.6.24-21-386 before) and I get error messages about uvesafb. It complained about missing v86d, so I installed that but some errors are still there. Since I do not believe I need uvesafb (I have an idea about what it does), how can I completely disable/remove it?
[10:02] <Stevko> I am going to test something (possible solution). I will come back (and read the log of what I missed).
[10:13] <shingoki> So has it been decided what ibex will look like, yet? I saw some really awful "everything dark brown" screenshots, was just wondering how it is going?
[10:20] <TuTUXG> !vmware
[10:21] <TuTUXG> is anyone able to get vmware-player/server/workstation working under intrepid?
[10:22] <TuTUXG> with the 2.6.27 kernel of course
[10:24] <TuTUXG> !#264789
[10:24] <TuTUXG> !bug #264789
[10:25] <TuTUXG> !bug #263837
[10:27] <stdin> TuTUXG: there's no need for '!' when looking up bugs
[10:27] <stdin> bug #12345
[10:27] <TuTUXG> thanks, stdin
[10:28] <TuTUXG> but #1
[10:28] <TuTUXG> bug #1
[10:29] <stdin> that bug is huge, and probably times out
[11:32] <matt__> I can't get my rtl-8150 wifi pci card working, is this http://rtl-wifi.sourceforge.net/wiki/Installing#Preparing_the_System still relevent or does .27 kernel support it. I'm confused
[11:37] <badp> Where's the intrepid section on ubuntuforums.org?
[11:38] <badp> Or do I just post on General?
[11:42] <badp> I fail >.
[11:42] <badp> <
[11:42] <badp> Oh well, nothing I can do now.
[11:46] <mattik> Do you know how can I get Firefox 32 bit working with flash and java in 64 bit system. I tried some link and I got the Firefox of the Hardy, but not java and flash
[11:47] <Unksi> mattik: flash is broken at the moment, dunno about java as i dont use it
[11:48] <mattik> ok, thanks
[11:49] <Unksi> np
[11:53] <badp> Hmm, I'm using Flash just fine
[11:53] <Unksi> which browser? firefox?
[11:54] <badp> Yep.
[11:54] <badp> I'm using the non-free version of flash.
[11:54] <Unksi> ok
[11:56] <mattik> badp: Do you know any instructions for it
[11:56] <badp> I just upgraded
[11:56] <badp> I didn't touch anything.
[11:57] <badp> I'm using flashplugin-nonfree <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:57] <mattik> badp: What source I can use in 64 bit system for it? some row in sources.list?
[11:57] <badp> Oh
[11:57] <badp> Flash in 64 bits
[11:57] <badp> Sorry
[11:58] <badp> I'm running with a 32 bits CPU
[11:58] <mattik> ok
[11:58] <mattik> I have to wait then
[11:59] <Unksi> mattik: i just purged flash and nspluginwrapper and installed them again, works now
[11:59] <Unksi> maybe you should try that as well
[12:00] <mattik> Unksi: What source do you have?
[12:01] <Unksi> the default sources list that comes with ubuntu
[12:01] <mattik> in 64 bit system?
[12:02] <Unksi> yes
[12:02] <mattik> ok, I try
[12:02] <Unksi> wonder why i didnt try that earlier :P
[12:06] <mattik> do you have firefox 64 bit
[12:09] <mattik> ok I purge this firefox 32 bit
[12:12] <Pretto> hi folks
[12:12] <Pretto> any help about network manager and gsm connections?
[12:16] <badp> ...Firefox's brk()'ing as there is no tomorrow
[12:20] <mattik> Is there some free flash plugin what I have to remove that I can get nonfree flash?
[12:37] <Linux_Galore> will the Intel 5100 wifi stuff be supported in intrepid ?  and yes Intel have released a driver, last August
[12:37] <Linux_Galore> but it looks like the code is merged into 2.6.27
[12:43] <Linux_Galore> ooh goody looks like Intrepid will be using 2.6.27,  Im going to have to kick someone for telling me Intrepid will be using 2.6.26
[12:48] <s0u][ight> hi guys
[12:55] <Mez> Hmm..... Ibex... for some reason, gnome has stopped loading properly on login
[12:55] <Mez> I have to switch to a terminal and run export DISPLAY=:0; nohup gnome-panel &
[12:55] <Mez> any ideas how to fix that?
[13:00] <Pretto> Mez, put it on your .bashrc?
[13:00] <Mez> Pretto, /me rolls eyes
[13:00] <Mez> 1) I dont use bash 2) that wouldnt be loaded on a GRAPHICAL login anyways
[13:01] <Pretto> Mez, but .bashrc runs  when you login, or not?
[13:01] <Pretto> Mez, even in a GRAPHICAL  environment
[13:01] <Mez> Pretto, no...
[13:01] <Mez> why would it? .bashrc runs when BASH runs
[13:02] <Pretto> Mez, i think   that you have a graphical shell over a text shell
[13:03] <Pretto> Mez, so,  bash will run
[13:03] <Mez> Pretto, it shouldn't.
[13:03] <Mez> unless I ran an xterm
[13:03] <Mez> secondly..
[13:03] <Mez> I dont use bash
[13:05] <Pretto> Mez,   but you have the login window, the problem is after login?
[13:05]  * Mez headdesks repeatedly
[13:06] <Mez> Pretto, yes. I can login. However, it seems that the gnome-session manager isn't loading up gnome-panel like it should do.
[13:07] <s0u][ight> 2.6.27 is still rc : will it be stable enough before intrepids final release has taken place?
[13:10] <Pretto> Mez, just to test, it works if you load it in the gnome-session?
[13:11] <Mez> Pretto, at the moment, i dont care to restart X to try.
[13:11] <Mez> I'd rather an answer off of someeone who knows what's going on
[13:11] <Pretto> Mez, so, put the command in the gnome-session until you find a better solution
[13:12] <Pretto> Mez, you did a clean install? or upgraded?
[13:13] <Mez> upgraded... as always... however, this happened without any changes since the last time it worked
[13:16] <Mez> http://rafb.net/p/7LzEGw57.html <-- I think I found the issue
[13:17]  * Pretto will look at it
[13:17] <Pretto> Mez, metacity?
[13:18] <Mez> yeah, it then goes on to configure gnome-session-manager
[13:18] <Pretto> hummmm... Mez, so make a  backup of .metacity and take it off
[13:19]  * Mez headdesks
[13:19] <Mez> or... let it configure it and then it should work ?
[13:19] <Pretto> do the login again, and let's see if  its ok
[13:19] <Pretto> Mez, yes
[13:25] <zniavre> anyones experienced ccsm crash in used?
[13:29] <salty-horse> hi. I'm trying to enable the nvidia restricted driver via jockey. after clicking "install and turn on" it waits a bit, and then returns to the main dialog without enabling the driver. any idea what's wrong?
[13:56] <afief> is there any chance the ubuntu folks will stop shipping a mostly-useless ffmpeg?
[14:01] <TheImp> afief: no because of licencing issues
[14:01] <TheImp> you can get a full ffmpeg via medibuntu
[14:02] <TheImp> blame your gov ...
[14:02] <afief> TheImp, you mean patents? I'm not aware of any "license" for ffmpeg stuff
[14:07] <Mez> afief, oh... mostly useless ffmpeg..
[14:07]  * Mez headdesks
[14:07] <Mez> afief, would that be one that freezes when trying to decode DVB-T ?
[14:08] <Mez> cause that might have been what the issue was last night
[14:08] <afief> Mez, I mean the ffmpeg without the ability to encode mpeg4 video streams
[14:08] <Mez> oh... :(
[14:09]  * Mez had major issues last night while trying to see if a DVB USB stick would work with ubuntu
[14:09] <Mez> managed to get it to scan... and zap... but mplayer stuck when trying to watch it (demux_open)
[14:09] <Mez> I assumed it was the demux)
[14:10] <afief> Mez, no idea, my needs are more simple I guess: "simply" encode some stuff to mpeg4... well it's not as easy as it sounds, but with the ffmpeg that ships with ubuntu it's impossible
[14:11] <Mez> !medibuntu | afief
[14:12] <afief> meh... if patents are legal reasons I wonder how lame and other stuff made it into the repository(not to mention that there is a patent even on the progressbar)
[14:41] <bob_sinclair> why do i get this insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.27-3-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/rtl8180.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[14:57] <terminator> I lost displayconfig-gtk and when I run it with gksudo I get command not found.  Tried reloading from synaptic and it is not found.  What do I do to fix this problem.
[14:59] <salty-horse> terminator, I think it was phased out
[14:59] <salty-horse> the package was removed from intrepid
[15:00] <salty-horse> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/displayconfig-gtk
[15:00] <salty-horse> see?
[15:02] <terminator> was wondering why I can't find it.  Maybe you can answer another question.  I am trying to load a GeForce FX5200 card using the nvidia 173 driver and all I get upon rebooting is low graphic mode.
[15:04] <salty-horse> terminator, is it enabled in the restricted drivers manager?
[15:04] <salty-horse> system>administrations>hardware drivers
[15:05] <terminator> how Yes it is
[15:05] <salty-horse> I don't know anything else to check :)
[15:06] <terminator> Do you have to setup the xorg.conf file anyway special.
[15:07] <Hobbsee> you shouldn't do, it should all be auto-detected.
[15:08] <terminator> well my system is picking up the driver as vesa.
[15:27] <linux1> hiya ppl anyone else having problem with gksudo lockup up you system :(
[15:28] <XVampireX> That's why it's alpha...
[15:29] <XVampireX> I'm putting hardy heron back
[15:36] <illogick> i just upgraded to alpha 6 and cannot get compiz settings manager
[15:36] <illogick> its no longer an option to install in synaptics package manger?
[15:38] <illogick> could anyone help with getting compiz settings manager working in intrepid ibex alpha 6???
[15:42] <illogick> is there a fix to this problem?
[15:55] <doggymenz> the adobe flash in repo sucks, its flash10-beta, its buggy and slow. i need flash10-rc, please put it in the repo
[15:55] <_Zeus_> ??
[16:02] <Guest76031> i installed 8.10 64 and tried to install skype ,the icon shows but skype never launches
[16:02] <_Zeus_> run skype from a console please
[16:03] <kruyKaze> how do i do that?
[16:03] <_Zeus_> open a console and type skype?
[16:03] <_Zeus_> no offense but if you know this little, you'd be better off running hardy
[16:04] <kruyKaze> is that the same thing as a terminal?
[16:04] <kruyKaze> none taken
[16:04] <pwnguin> yes
[16:04] <kruyKaze> thx'
[16:04] <kruyKaze> error message "skype: error while loading shared libraries: libQtDBus.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
[16:04] <_Zeus_> yup
[16:05] <_Zeus_> known bug
[16:05] <_Zeus_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271550
[16:05] <kruyKaze> in 8.10 or skype?
[16:05] <_Zeus_> i think 8.10
[16:06] <kruyKaze> thanks
[16:06] <_Zeus_> i had that error in a5 x64, when i went to a6 i went to x86
[16:07] <kruyKaze> is there a way to go back to hardy?
[16:08] <_Zeus_> sure
[16:08] <_Zeus_> reinstall
[16:08] <kruyKaze> well without loosing everything :)
[16:10] <kruyKaze> also i cant uninstall skype it says it's not installed but the icon is still there
[16:12] <_Zeus_> sudo apt-get remove --purge skype
[16:12] <_Zeus_> there's not really a way to downgrade w/o reinstalling
[16:15] <kruyKaze> did that still showing the icon in "internet"
[16:15] <_Zeus_> it's probably an error
[16:15] <_Zeus_> if you really want, restart X
[16:16] <kruyKaze> is that rebooting?
[16:16] <pwnguin>  you can reinstall without "losing everything," if you have a /home partition
[16:17] <_Zeus_> kruyKaze: press ctrl+alt+bksp
[16:17] <_Zeus_> log out/login
[16:17] <kruyKaze> ok
[16:17] <kruyKaze> brb
[16:17] <e\ectro_> for some reason, gdm is defaulting to Xfce4, where can I get it to ensure that gnome is preferred
[16:20] <kruyKaze> i still have that skype icon
[16:20] <kruyKaze> is there a way to just delete it?
[16:34] <hardcore> is it a good idea to try out 8.10 alpha or should i wait for beta?
[16:40] <hyper_ch> so, for the time being I run now Sykpe in a VM
[16:43] <ethana2> Ok, my new a6 install isn't booting, grub says bad file or directory or something
[16:43] <ethana2> it was a manual install, so the problem is most likely my fault
[16:44]  * ethana2 pastebins his menu.lst
[16:45] <ethana2> http://pastebin.com/f23466de8
[16:45]  * ethana2 hugs pastebinit -i
[16:47] <ethana2> I did it manually because I wanted grub to still be controlled only by hardy
[16:49] <ethana2> I can't see what I did wrong...
[16:49] <teethdood> e\ectro_: modify /etc/X11/default-manager
[16:49] <ethana2> Do I just have a corrupt kernel or something?
[16:50] <ethana2> ok, that directory there that points to the kernel-- that all happens after grub goes into the indicated partition, correct?
[16:53] <void^> assuming hd0,2 is correct
[16:55] <ethana2> I have one hard drive...  intrepid is /dev/sda3
[16:56] <ethana2> so hd0, partition 3 - 1
[16:57] <ethana2> do sda$ and (hd0,$) numbers correspond?
[16:57] <ethana2> I know the whole count from 1 or 0 thing, but i'm not making false assumptions am I?
[16:58] <void^> sda3 -> 0,2 is correct
[16:58] <ethana2> ok
[16:58]  * ethana2 strokes beard
[16:59] <ethana2> I don't know what to think of this
[16:59] <ethana2> ohhhhhh
[16:59] <ethana2> what the
[17:00] <ethana2> there's a vmlinuz and initrd right in /
[17:00] <ethana2> I bet this has to do with the one change they made to keep grub cleaner
[17:00]  * ethana2 changes data to use those
[17:02]  * ethana2 tries
[17:02] <teethdood> ibex sure feels a lot more snappier than hardy
[17:03] <teethdood> hardy is too hard
[17:08] <ethana2> http://pastebin.com/m37382bf3
[17:12] <ethana2> You know, when someone's installing intrepid and they say not to install a bootloader
[17:12] <ethana2> maybe they still want to be able to use the OS
[17:12] <ethana2> ...they just don't want their current bootloader jacked
[17:13] <ethana2> I should have had an option "Add OS to current bootloader"
[17:13] <ethana2> I don't know whether I should file a bug or what
[17:29] <hyper_ch> so, finally skype runs on 64bit ibex :)
[17:32] <tanath> how do i get music-applet to work with amarok? the amarok plugin says there's no kdecore module
[17:32] <hyper_ch> tanath: you have kdecore installed?
[17:33] <tanath> hyper_ch, the only thing that came up in search was python-kde4. i installed it, but that didn't help
[17:33] <hyper_ch> do you konw the exact filename?
[17:33] <tanath> hyper_ch, it just says 'kdecore'
[17:34] <tanath> "No module named kdecore"
[17:35] <hyper_ch> no clue
[17:35] <tanath> :-/
[17:36] <hyper_ch> tanath: start amarok from the shell and the load it and then look at the output whether you can get an exact filename
[17:37] <tanath> nope
[17:37] <tanath> gives some basic info, then detaches from terminal
[17:37] <tanath> no mention of it
[17:37] <hyper_ch> tanath: how about asking in #amarok ?
[17:38] <tanath> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PyKDE4/kdecore.so
[17:38] <tanath> that might be it
[17:38] <tanath> from ' dpkg -L python-kde4|grep -i core'
[17:38] <hyper_ch> have a try :)
[17:39] <tanath> hyper_ch, try what?
[17:39] <hyper_ch> at that package there
[17:39] <tanath> configure button is disabled until the plugin is enabled
[17:39] <tanath> sorry?
[17:40] <tanath> that's the package i installed which was the only mentioned when searching kdecore... it didn't help
[17:41] <hyper_ch> then you might want to ask in #amarok
[17:42] <tanath> well, not sure how much help they'd be. amarok works fine. it's the applet that doesn't work :P
[17:42] <hyper_ch> or wait, amarok 1.4 is based on kde 3x... maybe you need to get the according python lib for that
[17:43]  * ethana2 uses neon
[17:43] <ethana2> i use rhythmbox when i want system integration though
[17:43] <tanath> i dislike rhythmbox
[17:44] <tanath> i had a script installed which made amarok work with my media keys, but upgrading to 8.10 broke it
[17:45] <ethana2> Should I just reinstall and have intrepid take over my bootloader?
[17:56] <max_> *sigh*
[17:56] <max_> I upgraded to ibex from hardy, but now gdm won't display.
[17:57] <max_> Is this a common problem?
[17:59] <lenios> max_, kinda yes
[17:59] <max_> Can anyone help me? I upgraded to ubuntu ibex, but now the graphical display doesn't work at all. Gdm, by the way. Is this a commmon problem, and can I fix this?
[18:00] <max_> I logged off for some reason, so I didn't get anything before that previous post.
[18:00] <max_> What should I do?
[18:02] <max_> Anyone?
[18:03] <lenios> i can't help you
[18:03] <max_> Why not?
[18:04] <lenios> because i don't know how to fix this
[18:04] <max_> Does anyone?
[18:07] <max_> New question: If nobody know how to fix it, how do I downgrade to 8.04?
[18:07] <max_> What command is it?
[18:09] <max_> Like, anyone can tell me.
[18:10] <XVampireX> upgrading and downgrading is not something you'd want to do
[18:10] <XVampireX> better just reinstall with the 8.04 CD
[18:11] <XVampireX> You know I've got an idea for 8.10
[18:11] <XVampireX> err
[18:11] <XVampireX> 9.04
[18:11] <max_> Gah. Is the official release date on October 31st?
[18:11] <XVampireX> yeah
[18:11] <XVampireX> I think
[18:11] <max_> 9.04 is Jaunty Jackolope, haha.
[18:11] <XVampireX> yeah
[18:12] <max_> Well, I'm going to go reinstall... second time today.
[18:12] <XVampireX> Well my idea was.... to create 1 DVD that lets you install whatever package, kubuntu, ubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu
[18:12] <XVampireX> something like opensuse...
[18:13] <lenios> isn't there already a dvd?
[18:13] <XVampireX> don't think so
[18:14] <XVampireX> if anything it's just ubuntu and kubuntu
[18:14] <lenios> oh
[18:15] <literal> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
[18:26] <ethana2> Am I advised to reinstall intrepid and have it overwrite my bootloader?
[18:26] <ethana2> Can I have it redo my bootloader without a reinstall?
[18:29] <mnemo> i just upgraded to intrepid alpha and now X.org wont start because it says "ABI major version does not match xserver version" (this is for the ATI fglrx driver) .... how can I workaround this issue?
[18:56] <dennis101010_> http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/4970232/
[19:14] <teethdood> anyone else experiencing thrashing hard drives? my HD light is always indicating that it's reading/writing
[19:17] <teethdood> Ibex may literally break my system at this rate
[19:18] <mnemo> teethdood: how long has it been going on?
[19:18] <mnemo> sometimes ubuntu runs batch jobs in the background for a few minutes
[19:18] <teethdood> since my upgrade last night
[19:19] <mnemo> start a terminal and run "top"... which program is running a lot in there??
[19:19] <teethdood> it's not really thrashing, more like constantly accessing stuff
[19:22] <literal> might want to try iotop instead
[19:22] <teethdood> firefox is at 2% CPU, but that's not the culprit
[19:23] <mnemo> teethdood: what program is listed inside "iotop" ??
[19:23] <mnemo> use "sudo apt-get install iotop" if you dont have it
[19:23] <teethdood> apt-geting iotop right now
[19:24] <teethdood> son of a gun
[19:24] <teethdood> myth
[19:24] <teethdood> I just installed it right after the upgrade
[19:24] <teethdood> ok thanks guys
[19:24] <mnemo> np
[19:25] <_tommyd> sorry for this question but I just upgraded to 8.10 and now I can't log in in gdm, I can switch to another console just fine, I can also set the brightness of my screen but every other input won't get recognized :/
[19:25] <_tommyd> any way to fix this?
[19:26] <mnemo> _tommyd: why cant you login? wrong password, cant type letters in username box or what?
[19:26] <_tommyd> the inputbox won't show any letters I type
[19:27] <mnemo> _tommyd: laptop?
[19:27] <_tommyd> yes
[19:27] <_tommyd> as said special keys and alt+f1 etc works fine
[19:27] <mnemo> if you switch to another virtual console, can you type normally in there?
[19:27] <_tommyd> yes
[19:28] <mnemo> strange, sry I've never heard anything like it before.. maybe someone else on this channel knows
[19:29] <_tommyd> I then tried with a usb keyboard and same result, inputbox stays clear but can switch consoles
[19:30] <_tommyd> similar to this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/254840 except no problems with the mouse
[19:35] <_tommyd> ok so I have to add inputdevice under ServerLayout in xorg.conf will try that, should have read it more carefully :/
[19:40] <teethdood> is there a way to remove all packages that were installed at a specific time? (ie I installed mythtv, which installed 30 other packages)
[19:41] <astraljava> teethdood: If you used aptitude, `sudo aptitude remove mythtv` should remove the other that came along as they're not used by any other package.
[19:41] <astraljava> `mythtv`, or whatever it is called.
[19:43] <teethdood> astraljava: that was nice. Now only if synaptic has the same capability
[19:44] <astraljava> teethdood: aptitude really is a superior dpkg front-end. :)
[19:45] <teethdood> I thought xorg.conf is not needed anymore
[19:55] <iddo> how can i prevent seahorse from revealing my empathy gtalk password?
[20:17] <kevin06_> hi
[20:18] <kevin06_> the fglrx works  with xorg 7.4?
[20:19] <user_> hi, i am running a6 in virtualbox 2.0.2, but cannot change the screen resolution to something higher then 800x600. someone has a hint to solve this? (i wouldnt want to delete a6 and report no further issues, because of this usability issue..)
[20:20] <Unksi> 202931 < mnemo> i just upgraded to intrepid alpha and now X.org wont start because it says "ABI major version does not match xserver version" (this is for the ATI fglrx driver) .... how can I workaround this issue?
[20:21] <Unksi> kevin06_: according to that, i would guess that no
[20:23] <bsnider> kevin06_, wait a month or so and it probably will
[20:24] <kevin06_> ok thanks
[20:32] <DBO> I know I must be starting to sound like a broken record... but... suspend help?  My laptop will only suspend one time then it wont resume from a second suspend
[20:32] <DBO> help?
[20:35] <Lynoure> Have you tried the suspend troubleshooting instructions yet?
[20:35] <bsnider> does it suspend when you put the lid down?
[20:35] <Lynoure> I have not tried suspend on ibex, but I have sweated over it in other versions...
[20:36] <DBO> bsnider, i disabled that
[20:36] <DBO> Lynoure, i tried everything I could yeah
[20:36] <bsnider> but it would work if you hadn't diasbled it?
[20:36] <DBO> which instruction do you want me to look at in particular
[20:36] <DBO> bsnider, the first time
[20:36] <DBO> the second time it fails to resume
[20:36] <DBO> it will suspend once
[20:36] <Lynoure> DBO: So you have already figured out which point it fails at?
[20:36] <DBO> and only once
[20:37] <Lynoure> DBO: Seems I cannot find them on the wiki anymore.
[20:37] <DBO> well there are a multitude of issues, I have worked through several
[20:37] <DBO> at first it would not suspend at all
[20:37] <DBO> then I disabled the ath5k driver and replaced it with ndiswrapper.  Now it will suspend once.  I also had to manually enabled some quirks to get video back
[20:38] <DBO> but after the second suspend its still just hard locked.  I get video, I can see my mouse, but I can't move it.  Caps lock does nothing, I can't switch VT's
[20:38] <Lynoure> you could try blacklisting the video and wlan drivers for the suspend
[20:38] <bsnider> did all this work in hardy?
[20:38] <DBO> Lynoure, I removed them completes and tried suspending from a vt
[20:38] <DBO> and suspending using the VESA driver
[20:39] <DBO> bsnider, I can't boot hardy
[20:39] <DBO> I have a thinkpad T500
[20:39] <DBO> Intrepid is the only distro "out" right now capable of booting my hardware
[20:40] <bsnider> fascinating
[20:40] <bsnider> is that an old machine or a new one?
[20:40] <SwedeMike> brand new
[20:41] <SwedeMike> reviews are from august 2008, so it's most likely fresh release
[20:41] <DBO> yeah
[20:41] <DBO> just came out
[20:42] <bsnider> is everything intel?
[20:42] <SwedeMike> bsnider: no, ati gfx chip. Google it, there are plenty of specs in reviews
[20:43] <DBO> no
[20:43] <DBO> I dont have the ATI chip
[20:43] <DBO> i have intel only
[20:43] <DBO> there is a model just with the intel chip
[20:44] <DBO> everything else is intel except the wireless which is atheros
[20:44] <DBO> but even rmmod'ing its module before suspend does not fix it
[20:44] <bsnider> it will probably work much better as of the beta release
[20:44] <DBO> why do you say that?
[20:44] <bsnider> atheros isn't properly supported until then
[20:45] <DBO> well like I said, I have removed the module all together
[20:45] <DBO> that doesn't make a difference on suspend
[20:45] <bsnider> there's lots of people having suspend/resume problems if you look in the forums
[20:45] <bsnider> i'm sure it will be fixed
[20:47] <DBO> is there any way I can help ensure that
[20:47] <DBO> my bug report is already the number one hit for "thinkpad t500 suspend"
[20:47] <bsnider> unless you're keith packard, probably not
[20:48] <DBO> alright, then you leave me no choice but to file the most hilarious bug report I can in hopes someone diggs it =P
[20:50] <Lynoure> DBO: so, what part of resume it gets stuck at, currenly?
[20:51] <DBO> figuring that out is somewhat difficult.  Doing the system clock think (whatever thats called) generates no hash matches
[20:51] <DBO> but it gets to the point of actually showing my mouse
[20:51] <DBO> on a black display
[20:51] <DBO> its backlit
[20:51] <DBO> and there is some hard drive activity before that point
[20:51] <DBO> but then it freezes completely
[20:51] <Lynoure> DBO: if it gets to any resume scripts, you can find out where by   touch somewhere/resumescriptname
[20:52] <Lynoure> DBO: add that to the resume script, then after failed resume see which one was the last one touched (remember to clean up before next attempt)
[20:53] <DBO> Lynoure, I was under the impression that wont actually get commited to the hard drive until after suspend completes
[20:53] <DBO> but /var/log/pm.suspend.log shows nothing from any resume scripts
[20:54] <Lynoure> DBO: if that's the case, some things have changed... oh well
[20:54] <DBO> Lynoure, dont get me wrong
[20:54] <DBO> I am going to try it
[20:54] <DBO> whatever it takes to help
[22:32] <histo> Is there a way to search for specific packages at packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/
[22:33] <histo> nvm I found it
[22:33] <Jordan_U> histo: http://packages.ubuntu.com/ choose Intrepid as the distro in the search
[22:34] <histo> Yeah just found that ty jordan
[22:41] <histo> Ooh found the same bug persists from several versions of ubuntu.
[22:41] <histo> Is anyone else able to confirm?
[22:42] <histo> Well perhaps I can explain the problem and someone might be able to tell me which package to file the bug under.
[22:43] <histo> If you install tightvncserver and tightvnc-java.  Then you start a tightvncserver.  If you try to connect to that server via a java webrowser it kills the vnc server.
[22:43] <histo> I can kill it everytime with amd64
[22:44] <histo> So is it a problem ith tightvnc-java or a problem with tightvncserver handling the connection?
[22:44] <histo> You can use tightvncserver with a normal vnc client and it works fine.
[22:44] <histo> But soon as you try the java connection kablooie.  This happens it gutsy also.
[23:02] <EvilDaemon> Alright, so in Hardy, network was found in System > Administration > Network
[23:02] <EvilDaemon> Where is it in Ibex Alpha 6?
[23:04] <SwedeMike> been wondering the same thing, but you can run it manually from shell
[23:04] <EvilDaemon> can you install a GUI client?
[23:04] <SwedeMike> gnome-network-preferences
[23:05] <SwedeMike> just start that, it's the same application, it's just not in the menu
[23:12] <terminator_> Anybody running a GeForce FX5200 with the 173 driver?
[23:54] <EvilDaemon> Are there any guides to get Skype on Alpha 6?
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> EvilDaemon: just download the .deb from skype.com and run it with gdebi
[23:58] <EvilDaemon> Ok, thanks.


[13:41] <abogani> persia: Do you have kernel-team's ml subscribed?
[14:33] <persia> abogani: I don't, but I occasionally read archives
[14:33] <abogani> persia: Ok. So I CC you in my next email.
[14:33] <persia> Why>
[14:33] <persia> ?
[14:34] <abogani> persia: About kernel replacement for -preempt (which is died).
[14:35] <persia> No need to cc: me
[14:35] <persia> I think we all reached a sensible consensus on IRC
[14:36] <persia> And I think that the people who care (you, apw, rtg, ogarasawa) all have a common undrestanding.
[14:36] <persia> The email discussion is just for the record, isn't it?
[14:36] <abogani> It is also about packaging.
[14:36] <abogani> persia: ^
[14:37] <abogani> In any case I think to have done a good job.
[14:37] <persia> How about the packaging?  Wasn7t the agreement to use one git tree and just pull two source packages from it, for the different flavours?
[14:38] <abogani> persia: I have done a better job: My (source) package is weight only 2.3 MB. That approach require a full copy of linux source code.
[14:39] <persia> I know.
[14:39] <persia> I don't currently have the willpower to make a huge fuss at the kernel team about the horrid ways they package,.
[14:40] <persia> I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the vanilla source ought be packaged and produce headers and a source, and all the flavours should build-dep on that source and apply patches.
[14:40] <abogani> persia: What exactly I have done in my package.
[14:41] <abogani> persia: In any case I'll propose to UKT a working package: choice is theirs.
[14:41] <persia> But the kernel team has the way they do things, and for all it's not ideal, I think it7s probably better to work with that method for the social integration value rather than do it the packaging-clean way.
[14:41] <persia> This doesn't make me happy, but it's a long, hard fight to make it sane, and it will be easier to have that dicsussion later, once you are integrated as part of the teeam.
[14:42] <persia> Your choice, really.  I think that they will prefer to continue with their solution, for all that it's not as clean as it could be.
[14:42] <persia> And I think there's a better chance for you to be part of UKT if you're doing things their way, rather than suggesting alternates.
[14:44]  * abogani is really starting to think to isn't part of that Team.
[14:44] <persia> So, for all that I agree with you technically, I'm unsure it's the best social path, or the fastest way to get to the eventually correct technical solution.
[14:45] <abogani> persia: Convert to the "stupid duplicate linux source code" method require to remove 3 lines in my patch. So I can switch in any moment.
[14:45] <persia> That makes it easy :)
[14:45] <abogani> if *they* want.
[14:45] <persia> My recommendation would get it uploaded including the stupid duplicate source code, and then apply the 3-line patch as a later update "to improve archive quality" or some such.
[14:45] <persia> That saves the discussion for *after* the users have been served.
[14:52] <abogani> I never obtain something in this way because all postponed things are ignored completely (when they think that the jos is done they close mind and ears).
[14:53] <abogani> I'll propose the smart package. If someone show complaints about it I'll switch immediately.
[14:54] <persia> OK.
[14:55]  * persia tends to make lists of unfinished stuff, and tries to address them later, in order to allow for staged implementations, because most people fear change
[14:56] <abogani> Some news about kernels:
[14:56] <abogani> 1) linux-rt will be updated by smb soon (I hope)
[14:56] <abogani> 2) Probably we'll have got a low latency kernel for i386 and amd64 and we'll can use it as default for Studio
[14:56] <abogani> 3) I would want rename old -rt into -realtime
[14:57] <abogani> scott-work, ScottL, rlameiro, jussi : ^
[14:58] <rlameiro> thats great news
[14:58] <rlameiro> why the renaming abogani ?
[14:59] <abogani> rlameiro: I would want change approach in the realtime kernel maintenance and I would want let users notice it.
[15:00] <rlameiro> ok
[15:00] <rlameiro> is it the hardcore realtime patch?
[15:01] <abogani> rlameiro: -rt and -realtime are the same kernel with the same "hardcore" realtime patch.
[15:02] <rlameiro> ok then, i dont see any problem with that then, -realtime can be more persuasive
[15:03] <rlameiro> altough i would like to stress the possible need of having 2 kernels installed if you are using a laptop, since rt harcore is very power hungry :D
[15:04] <persia> -realtime is not appropriate for the vast majority of our users.
[15:04] <persia> The only folks that need it are those who are pushing the absolute limits of their hardware (for Studio)
[15:05] <persia> -realtime is much more interesting in other contexts (VoIP server, industrial process monitor, robotics, etc.)
[15:05] <rlameiro> persia: not only studio, you need realtime if you are performing on show with eavy processing (my case)
[15:05] <persia> rlameiro: You fall into that minority who are pushing the limits of their hardware.
[15:05] <scott-work> abogani: what kerenl version is the -rt based on?
[15:06] <rlameiro> persia: yes i know, but that minority is not only studio, that can be misleading
[15:07] <persia> rlameiro: By "Studio" I mean Ubuntu Studio, rather than use in a studio. (note the capital S)
[15:07] <rlameiro> and there is alot of people using laptop for effects and gigs recording so if you use ubuntustudio, usually you would like to use some of them
[15:07] <persia> Sorry for the confusion.
[15:07] <rlameiro> ahhhhhh]
[15:07] <rlameiro> ok
[15:07] <abogani> scott-work: 2.6.31 in Lucid and 2.6.33 in Maverick.
[15:07] <persia> I know lots of folks who do recording (even with some effects) using the -generic kernel with success.  it all depends on hardware/filter relations.
[15:08] <rlameiro> well, the idea of 2 kernels is if you are working on hardcore audio you boot with rt, elese boot with generic for genpurpose usage
[15:08] <scott-work> i have had respectable success using -generic kernel to record on a P4/2.3 ghz machine (granted I was only recording two inputs max at a time)
[15:09]  * rlameiro is thinking on the help/wikis piling up to do after delivering the thesis....
[15:09] <abogani> scott-work: -lowlatency works better than -generic and it is equally rock-solid.
[15:09] <persia> rlameiro: Right, but my point is that we don't want to suggest most folks use -realtime.  -preempt is sufficient.
[15:09]  * persia agrees with abogani
[15:09]  * abogani agress with persia
[15:10] <persia> rlameiro: Those few folks who *need* -realtime should use it, and I am glad it's available, but...
[15:10] <rlameiro> persia: for sure that is in line with my statement
[15:10] <scott-work> *me agrees with abogani and by association agrees with persia
[15:10] <rlameiro> have 2 kernels and only use rt when strictly necessary
[15:10]  * scott-work fail
[15:10] <persia> rlameiro: And that should be best practice, indeed.
[15:11] <rlameiro> so maybe at install time rt kernel should never be put as  the default boot
[15:11] <persia> Note that there's a side issue with DKMS, that makes it annoying to do that, because one needs to find a way to make sure modules are built for all installed kernels.
[15:11] <rlameiro> on grub
[15:12] <persia> It hasn't been since Hardy, and I don't believe we're changing that.  The current plan for Maverick (as I understand it) is to have abogani merge -preempt and -lowlatency into a single -preempt, and have that default for the install.
[15:12] <rlameiro> abogani: is it plausible that in the next future mainstream kernel have the RT capabilities and be started on the fly?
[15:13] <rlameiro> like only use RT when we need?
[15:13] <persia> That's far future.
[15:13]  * rlameiro admits i dont get kernel stuff deeply...
[15:14] <rlameiro> sad...
[15:14] <persia> Short term, we need different kernel sources.
[15:14] <persia> Medium term, realtime will be selectable at compile time
[15:14] <rlameiro> well at least we have it, others doesnt have kernels for that
[15:15] <persia> I've heard of plans to make the scheduler selectable at runtime, but that's an interesting issue (how do you maintain context over the switch)
[15:15] <rlameiro> and hopefully longterm it will be hardcoded into the main kernel and fired up when needed :D
[15:15] <abogani> ehhhh
[15:15] <persia> Well, kinda, but not really.
[15:15] <rlameiro> maybe using flags on the sofware startup...
[15:15]  * rlameiro is dreaming to much
[15:15] <abogani> rlameiro: :-)
[15:16] <persia> It may be possible, long-term, to have a userspace utility that can switch between realtime and non-realtime, and use a wrapper around stuff, but by that point, I hope we don't care.
[15:16] <rlameiro> persia: for instance puredta by default doesnt use rt capabilities, but if i run it with "-rt" it will use it :D
[15:17] <persia> rlameiro: That's entirely different.  That's about the RT capabilities in the kernel, rather than about whether the kernel scheduler is actually realtime.
[15:17] <rlameiro> persia: at that point we wont need realtime anymore, the kernel will absorb it already :D
[15:17] <persia> All modern kernels have RT capabilities, so you can do very tight scheduling, if you request it.
[15:17] <rlameiro> persia: i know, i just wanted to ilustrate a possible switching technique
[15:17] <persia> That said, it's usually soft realtime, so you end up missing by microseconds.
[15:18] <persia> That's not how it would work.
[15:18] <persia> Hard realtime vs, soft realtime isn't something you can switch on a per-process basis.  it can only be for the entire system.
[15:18] <rlameiro> or maybe having a wrapper like $rt ardour-gtk
[15:19] <persia> Hard realtime typically imposes an overall performance penalty, in exchange for improved reliability of scheduling.
[15:19] <rlameiro> well, that may be true, but even with rt posibilities not all software use it
[15:19] <rlameiro> most of them are unaware of that
[15:19] <persia> Soft realtime fails to have perfectly reliable scheduling, but with better performance.
[15:19] <persia> This isn't fixable: it's the nature of how it works.
[15:20]  * abogani notice than persia is really well informed. :-)
[15:20] <rlameiro> i would like to try the soft scheduling on 192khz recording
[15:20] <scott-work> but what is the order of magnitude in the delta between soft and real time?
[15:20] <persia> scott-work: In what sense?
[15:20] <scott-work> time?
[15:20] <abogani> scott-work: Don't exist.
[15:21] <persia> overall time-to-complete-a-process or time-between-desired-process-start-and-real-process-start?
[15:21] <scott-work> that shouldn't have been a questions on my part
[15:21]  * abogani would want let you noticed than lowlatency/preempt will be a great kernel. It have only a little more power consumption so for laptop users it is still suggest to use -generic when they working on battery.
[15:21] <persia> rlameiro: 192kHz means that you have 5microseconds per sample.
[15:21] <rlameiro> persia: i know :D
[15:22] <persia> rlameiro: So, if you use soft realtime, you'll end up losing samples if you try to do too much processing.  If you use hard realtime, you'll end up losing processing if you try to do too much.
[15:22] <rlameiro> on full duplex you get 2.5uS
[15:22] <persia> No.
[15:22] <persia> the entire point of jack is to be sample-accurate for N channels.
[15:23] <persia> So within an individual timeslice, there's no per-channel scheduling.
[15:23] <rlameiro> yeah
[15:23] <persia> That said, you may have to monitor your time-to-complete-the-filter vs. number-of-channels.
[15:23] <rlameiro> well i did recordede in 192khz on the 9.10..
[15:24] <persia> If it worked, it probably didn't matter if it was hard realtime or soft realtime
[15:24] <rlameiro> persia: hard realtime kernel
[15:24] <rlameiro> it matters if you have 8 audio inputs at the same time
[15:24] <persia> Because if you go overlimit on processing availability in either case, you get artifacts.
[15:25] <persia> depends on your codec, amount of CPU requirements for the codec, number of cores, etc.
[15:25] <rlameiro> you need to clear the audio buffres really fast and for that you need a tight schedule
[15:25] <persia> If you have an external firewire audio interface and a multicore machine, it likely doesn't matter.
[15:25] <rlameiro> yes i have... busted
[15:26] <persia> If you have such a device, you'll do better with soft realtime, as your interface (should) be buffering, and you're just pulling samples off the firewire network, so throughput should be more important than schedule.
[15:27] <rlameiro> well anyway, the idea is to advice for the generic kernel, then having the lowlatency kernel as a second choice and only if the user wants have the -realtime kernel isnt that?
[15:27] <persia> If you are using an AC'97 codec or other CPU-intensive AD conversion, you'd need hard realtime.
[15:27] <persia> No.
[15:27] <persia> For Maverick, we'll recommend -preempt, and have -realtime available for folks who need it, and -generic for folks who care more about battery life than performance.
[15:28] <rlameiro> abogani would want let you noticed than lowlatency/preempt will be a great kernel. It have only a little more power consumption so for laptop users it is still suggest to use -generic when they working on battery.
[15:28] <rlameiro> so do we need to diferentiate laptop users and desktop?
[15:28] <rlameiro> is it possible to do on the alternate install?
[15:29] <scott-work> that is something i have been thinking about because they have appreciably divergent needs
[15:30]  * scott-work is catching up on backscroll now
[15:32] <scott-work> persia, abogani: my questions was somewhat rhetorical, i'm thinking that with new, faster machines and improved kernel code that the possible differences between -hard and -soft might not be appriciable for most people
[15:33]  * abogani never use the term "soft"...
[15:34] <rlameiro> abogani: i think he is refering to the aproach of the kernel config
[15:34] <rlameiro> soft beeing more conventional
[15:34] <rlameiro> hard with hard config plus patches
[15:35] <abogani> I totally miss the point.
[15:36] <abogani> Could we speak about *user requirements* instead of *soft vs hard* ?
[15:36] <rlameiro> maybe scott-work is trying to point that as the hardware become better the need for realtime kernels decreases
[15:36] <rlameiro> or the generic can do better...
[15:37] <persia> abogani: By "soft" realtime I mean a non-realtime kernel attempting to satisfy scheduling requests made with RT_CAP
[15:37] <abogani> rlameiro: I don't agree: people surely find a way to use the new power.
[15:37] <rlameiro> abogani: i was trying to disect scott-work statement
[15:37] <persia> People will always need to be able to choose between optimising for performance vs. optimising for schedule reliability.
[15:37] <rlameiro> i am sure i would find a way to use the power :D
[15:37] <scott-work> there is a hard limit to all kernel achievements in scheduling (you can consider this to be perfect physics in a vacuum or textbook if you like)
[15:38] <persia> But for our purposes, as devices become more powerful and more distributed, we care less.
[15:38] <scott-work> the ignio's patch gets us most of the way there i believe
[15:38] <scott-work> but we will keep making improvements in other methods until the delta isn't appreciable (in a newtonian's method)
[15:38] <scott-work> this, i believe
[15:40] <scott-work> sorry that i'm talking like yoda, i keep getting interrupted today
[15:41] <scott-work> i've been looking into the ardour mute bug #581786
[15:41] <scott-work> and i need some advice from those who are knowledgable in packaging and bug fixing
[15:41] <scott-work> the problem seems to stem from the ardour.rc file which shows several mute options with "yes", which does not parse well
[15:42] <scott-work> s/ardour.rc/ardour.rc.in
[15:42] <scott-work> these get written to the users home directly as "0" in an ardour.rc file
[15:43] <scott-work> i made a patch in my ppa which corrects this BUT the existing ardour.rc file in the user's home needs to be deleted or renamed first for it to be effective for new projects in ardour
[15:43] <scott-work> someone on #ubuntu-motu suggested using a wrapper script since maintainer scripts shoudl *NOT* touch home, but a wrapper script (if careful) could
[15:44] <scott-work> before going any further, is this a solid methodology (the wrapper script adjusting settings on home directory)?
[15:44] <persia> I prefer not to do that
[15:44] <abogani> I hate sw than to that.
[15:44] <persia> I prefer to set defaults correctly, and tell users who have already the wrong default to adjust it manually
[15:45] <persia> otherwise we risk the chance of overwriting the choice of a user who deliberately set it that way.
[15:45] <abogani> it is the right way.
[15:45] <rlameiro> persia: do you know when is due 10.04.1?
[15:45] <persia> Not offhand.  Schedule should say.
[15:45] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[15:46] <scott-work> july 29th
[15:46] <rlameiro> it doesnt persia
[15:46] <scott-work> according to the maverick schedule
[15:46] <scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[15:46] <persia> Bother.  Someone failed to update all the schedules.
[15:46] <persia> rlameiro: Feel like fixing it :)
[15:47] <rlameiro> no not now :D
[15:47] <scott-work> persia: okay, i'll drop the wrapper script direction and fixing users local files, get a patch for ardour, and mail/post users about it
[15:47] <rlameiro> so until when can we send updtes for 10.04.1
[15:48] <persia> scott-work: The key bit is to find out where the bug really exists.  Is it an Ubuntu bug?  A Debian bug?  An Upstream bug?  Who authored the .rc file?
[15:48] <persia> rlameiro: Usually about a week beforehand, but we can only do that if we are doing image testing.
[15:48] <scott-work> this is from the source and others have reported the same problem on other distributions (including debian and arch)
[15:48] <persia> Best to check with the release team to find out the requirements for us to participate in 10.04.1
[15:48] <rlameiro> i can test images
[15:49] <rlameiro> well we do have very urgent bugs to solve there
[15:49] <persia> scott-work: That's what I thought.  I've had others suggest upstream claims it's an Ubuntu thing.  Maybe good to submit a patch upstream so that they ship a different default.
[15:49] <rlameiro> at least the network manager and this ardour
[15:50] <persia> Right, but unless the release team agrees to spin us images, etc., the date doesn't matter.
[15:50] <persia> We can post to -updates at any time, and users who install after a post to -updates and do an upgrade will get the right results.
[15:50] <jussi> didnt the release team just do that?
[15:50] <scott-work> persia: http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2832 this shows that it's fixed in "A3", which I don't know what it is, I could presume ardour-3.0 but i haven't had time to email the guy who made the post
[15:50] <rlameiro> dont they do it automatically when there are bugs on the already shipped distros?
[15:50] <rlameiro> *isos
[15:50] <persia> jussi: Where/How?
[15:50] <persia> No.
[15:51] <rlameiro> persia: again the same problem, you dont have network to do updates
[15:51] <persia> scott-work: Cool!  that's a big step forward from last I saw.  You may want to get quadrispro to update that in Debian.
[15:51] <scott-work> persia: in that url you will find paul stating that is a problem and a "fix" was implemented and was hoping for confirmation
[15:51] <persia> rlameiro: I understand, *but* it depends on whether we have images.
[15:52] <scott-work> after i get the form of the patch determined i was going to work with debian, i.e. hoping to regiester with debian/bugs, file a report, post the patch, tell quadrispro
[15:52] <scott-work> persia: ^
[15:52] <persia> No registration needed for Debian BTS: it accepts mail from anyone
[15:53] <scott-work> persia: BUT, my next question is about the patch, i was going to make a debdiff
[15:53] <scott-work> can i do this from two source packages via the *.dsc file?
[15:54] <persia> I believe you must, in fact.  The debdiff program expects two .dsc files as arguments.
[15:55] <scott-work> oh, i was worried that this will not catch all pervasive changes throughout all the subdirectories and files
[15:55] <scott-work> and i thought you could actually run debdiff on the actual .deb files?
[15:56] <persia> You can, but that's not the sort of debdiff anyone wants to apply as a fix.
[15:56] <scott-work> persia: fantastic!  did you see my previous comments about the network bug as well?
[15:57] <scott-work> short story: i found network-admin on the studio dvd but it was not installed on a vanilla lucid install
[15:57] <persia> No.  I'm on my fourth computer in as many weeks, and have not managed to follow backscroll well.
[15:57] <scott-work> that would lead me to think that unapplying a patch would not adversely affect vanilla users :)
[15:57] <persia> OK.  We need to hunt down why and fix that.
[15:58] <persia> Oh, no it oughtn't.
[15:58] <rlameiro> scott-work: http://pastebin.com/iumf644y
[15:58] <persia> Mostly just needs discussion with the Desktop folks (#ubuntu-desktop)
[15:58] <rlameiro> can i post this comment to the ardour bug?
[15:58] <rlameiro> just for peace of mind of the reporter?
[15:59] <persia> Please don't do it that way.  Please add an upstream task to the bug instead.
[15:59] <persia> "Also affects project..." is the way to start.
[15:59] <rlameiro> ok
[15:59] <persia> The folks in #ubuntu-bugs tend to be experts at doing this (much more than I)
[16:00] <persia> That links it in a way that shows up on all sorts of reports, etc.
[16:01] <rlameiro> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ardour/+bug/581786
[16:02] <persia> rlameiro: You might also want to open an Ardou (Ubuntu) task ("Also affects Distribution ..."), and set the Studio task to Triaged, and the Ubuntu task to Confirmed.
[16:03] <persia> Might be good to set some importances as well.  I'd say "High" for Studio and "Medium" for Ubuntu, but that's just my opinion.
[16:03] <scott-work> i have ardour built already with a patch, hopefully i'll clean up the changelog (from ~ppa1) and submit the patch to the bug and file a bug with debian as well
[16:03] <scott-work> ...early this week
[16:04] <rlameiro> i cant touch on importances
[16:04] <rlameiro> persia: can you do it?
[16:09] <persia> I can.
[16:09] <persia> You should be able to set Importance for Studio, I think.  Talk to ScottL about getting that.
[16:09] <persia> For Ubuntu, you'd have to work with the bugsquad (who hang out in #ubuntu-bugs)
[16:10] <persia> To get the ability to change importance, you have to have a record of 5 well-triaged bugs.
[16:10] <rlameiro> well i cant triage on any of them also
[16:10] <rlameiro> just in progress fix comitted fix...etc
[16:11] <persia> same permission issue
[16:11] <persia> same folks to talk to about it
[16:12] <scott-work> shouldn't we also add Debian on the bug report, wouldn't that preclude having to create a debian bug?
[16:13] <persia> No.  One creates a Debian bug and then links it in LP
[16:16] <scott-work> okay, i'll take of that then
[16:17] <scott-work> persia: you mentioned talking to #ubuntu-desktop about the network bug, shall I do that as well?
[16:17] <persia> Someone needs to.  You'd be a good candidate, if you have time.
[16:20] <scott-work> for this i will make time :)
[16:20] <rlameiro> i am on the ubuntu-bugs channel
[16:20] <rlameiro> waiting som charity person to help me :D
[16:21] <scott-work> i think persia might have changed some of the settings rlameiro
[16:37] <rlameiro> scott-work: i think this is nice... seeing the channel and the people working together and helping each other and trying to fix problems
[16:37] <scott-work> haha, i was just thinking the same things and almost typed it as well :)
[16:37] <scott-work> i was thinking about how effective it is and how much power it has
[16:37] <rlameiro> yeah, it makes me confident on the future
[16:38] <scott-work> i believe the more effective we are (and the more we show and demonstrate that effectiveness) the more others will be attracted to it
[16:38] <rlameiro> persia is indeed a valuable friend :D I have a lot to learn with him, and with all of you guys :D
[16:40] <scott-work> +1 for persia :)
[16:40] <rlameiro> i think to big problem we have its that the eavy work is limited to few persons
[16:40] <rlameiro> so, the most people learning to do things the better
[16:41] <rlameiro> even if the things are simple it is a little help
[16:41] <abogani> Did you notice than seems he never sleep? Perhaps he have got some supernatural power...
[16:42] <rlameiro> yeah
[16:42] <rlameiro> persia:  do you sleep ????
[16:42] <rlameiro> hehe persia rocks
[16:43] <scott-work> he commented that he isn't diurnal (which means he doesn't divide his day into two parts, awake and asleep)
[16:43] <rlameiro> interesting?
[16:43] <rlameiro> so i makes periods of sleep and awake
[16:43] <persia> Rather, I don't have a 24-hour cycle.
[16:43] <rlameiro> i eared about that
[16:43] <persia> A common week is usually 4-5 days for me.
[16:44] <rlameiro> where do you live?
[16:44] <rlameiro> on the north?
[16:46] <rlameiro> abogani: do you know if the realtime patches can be applied on other architectures?
[16:46] <rlameiro> say ARM??
[16:46] <scott-work> in my old(er) age i certainly have a 24-hour cycle, if i don't get to bed by 11:00 i start to get cranky :P
[16:47] <rlameiro> scott-work: :D from friday to saturday i made it withou sleep
[16:47] <rlameiro> i went to sleep at 19:30 and get up at 5 morning
[16:47] <rlameiro> then i go to sleep at 7 again untill 11
[16:47] <rlameiro> lol
[16:47] <rlameiro> i cant get also with it.
[16:48] <rlameiro> i am getting old...
[16:48] <scott-work> but i also get up before 6:00 even on weekends
[16:49] <persia> It's really not an age thing.  When I was younger, I did it differently.
[16:49] <scott-work> later at night and early in the morning is when i can get the most done while the family is asleep :)
[16:49] <persia> When I was in uni, I used to go to bed around 19:00 or 20:00 and get up around 2:00
[16:49] <rlameiro> i do enjoy working during the night
[16:49] <rlameiro> i prefer night hours than day
[16:50] <rlameiro> i am much more efficient
[16:50] <persia> But as I get older, I find it's harder to get my body to follow a schedule, and it's better to sleep when tired, do stuff when awake.
[16:50] <rlameiro> yea, i hear guitarman talking about power naps
[16:50] <persia> (although I do tend to try to go to bed earlier to give time before I have to meet folks)
[16:50] <rlameiro> and caffeine naps
[16:51] <rlameiro> like take a coffe go to sleep 15 minutes and then you wake up energized with the caffeine making the effect :D
[16:52] <rlameiro> well i am aproved on the ubuntu bugsquad :D
[16:53] <persia> Cool!
[16:53] <scott-work> wtg!  oh, i should do that too, how did you do it?
[16:54] <rlameiro> now i need to do some bugs to get into the bugscontrol
[16:55] <rlameiro> sign ubuntu COC rea the triage wiki and join the mailing list, then apply on the team launchpad and send a mail to mailing list and wait for approval
[16:55] <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[16:57] <rlameiro> lol the guy that accept me is also portuguese
[16:57] <rlameiro> hehe
[16:58] <persia> I don't believe he lives there anymore, but yes.
[16:58] <rlameiro> he is living in Texas
[17:03] <falktx> (outro portugues...)
[17:04] <rlameiro> yeap falktx
[17:04] <rlameiro> we are everywhere
[17:05] <rlameiro> i was amazed when some days ago on the train i noticed a guy using a strange OS on a netbook, guess what ubuntu :D i even tought to aproach him, but we where getting at the final station
[17:05] <rlameiro> it nice to see normal peopl using it :D
[17:06] <rlameiro> and in portugal even more, people in here use a lot of pirated software, a lot.... i even had an answer about floss software like this
[17:07] <rlameiro> why would i intall it if i can have the others for free...
[17:23] <rlameiro> scott-work: :D one more :D
[17:23] <scott-work> yay!
[17:24] <rlameiro> thats the portuguese guy
[17:28] <falktx> hm, scott?
[17:29] <rlameiro> scott-work: ping
[17:29] <scott-work> hello falktx
[17:29] <falktx> are you portuguese?
[17:32] <scott-work> no, i'm american, from texas
[17:33] <falktx> so, who's the other portuguese guy?
[17:34] <rlameiro> falktx: its one of the leaders of the ubuntu bugsquad
[17:35] <falktx> so we have a lot of pt guys in ubuntu!
[17:35] <rlameiro> yeap
[17:35] <falktx> also nuno-pinheiro from kde
[17:35] <falktx> he's one of the designers
[17:36] <falktx> http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/
[17:37] <rlameiro> falktx: #ubuntu-pt
[17:47] <falktx> nice
[17:47] <falktx> one more channel to the list
[20:03] <abogani> ScottL, scott-work: ping
[20:43] <scott-work> hi abogani: pong
[20:43]  * scott-work has been in a meeting disucssing upcoming reviews


[07:08] <elvin> Hi there!  Basically, I'm trying to order some stuff to be delivered to my brother's address in London - do I put my name or his name on the name field in address details form? Does it even matter? What is this name for, anyway? (yes I'm that desperate, asking for
[07:08] <elvin> an answer at ubuntu channel, hope some of you people are actually from UK)
[09:27] <diplo> Morning all
[09:27] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:33] <Laney> that question about a delivery just up there...
[09:33] <Laney> is that really a UK specific thing?
[09:33] <Laney> surely you put a name on a parcel almost everywhere
[09:35] <diplo> I'd have said the same thing Laney
[09:35] <diplo> I was going to till I tried typing his name :P
[09:35] <diplo> Probably young
[09:47] <Laney> ._.
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> it can affect delivery. putting his brothers name might trip credit card services as suspicious. his name should be fine on the package.
[10:21] <Laney> not if it goes back to the sorting office and you then need ID to collect it
[10:32] <SuperMatt> morning 'buntu
[11:58] <David1234_> join #ubuntu-it
[12:08] <SuperMatt> I won't!
[12:15] <NET||abuse> hey guys, i have a laptop with ubuntu installed (my current work laptop) it's ubuntu 17.10, using LUKS full disk encryption so it's LVM, but otherwise the default way ubuntu sets that up
[12:16] <NET||abuse> i have a new laptop i need to transfer my install over to, rather than re-install and copy peicemeal, i was hoping to just image the whole machine with an ubuntu boot usb stick and a big external drive
[12:16] <NET||abuse> but will it work with volume id changes between the old and new machine even if i do a whole disk block level copy?
[12:17] <NET||abuse> is there a convenient way to get the whole disk copied over using dd or clonezilla or something?
[12:17] <NET||abuse> and restored without having to lark about with grub config's or anything/ just restore the full image and go?
[12:18] <NET||abuse> i'm switching over because the current laptop has broken audio and ethernet, the new one is the same model (hp elitebook 620 G3)
[12:19] <NET||abuse> they wont let me just swap out the disk drive :( corporate asset tagging mess of some sort they're just not willing to let me do
[12:19] <NET||abuse> any pointers?
[12:20] <zleap> not sure if this helps,  I have a few HP mini netbooks,  one of my keys recently fell off so I just moved ther hdd to another netbook (same model) and it worked great,  got the keyboard fixed and swapped the hdd back over
[12:20] <zleap> this was using Lubuntu
[12:20] <zleap> the same trick worked with google chrome OS
[12:42] <daftykins> NET||abuse: why don't you just transplant the drive?
[12:42] <daftykins> oh sorry just read that line
[12:42] <daftykins> nope no idea, FDE is a mess :)
[13:23] <NET||abuse> daftykins: :) yeh, i'm a bit restricted with that.
[13:28] <daftykins> love to see them prove they were swapped xD
[13:34] <NET||abuse> haha,
[13:35] <NET||abuse> i dont know but they may have actually registerd the serial number of the disk against the laptop asset tag. garantees on their hardware maybe track to disks too,
[13:35] <NET||abuse> but then again,,,
[13:35] <NET||abuse> I could be giving them way too much credit :)
[13:41] <daftykins> :D
[14:18] <diddledan> NET||abuse: if they're identical drives then you might be able to dd, but you need the new drive to be larger than the old drive or identical
[14:19] <diddledan> easiest is to mount the filesystem in a live environment, and copy the data
[16:53] <NET||abuse> arg,, ok
[18:16] <diddledan> huh? https://twitter.com/attackerman/status/954416571476307969
[19:18] <zmoylan-pi> he's read the mythical man month and now believes that if he puts 9 mothers at the task it can be done in one month. duh! :-P