[11:13] <Belserusk> Which option do you use? http://i.imgur.com/4rZQt.gif
[11:15] <ebel> depends
[11:15] <Belserusk> ebel, on what?
[11:16] <Belserusk> ebel, Which option would you use normally?
[11:16] <ebel> if i am opening a file from a usb stick or something
[11:17] <ebel> or if i know if it's an executable or now
[11:17] <ebel> *not
[11:37] <tdr112> 100 ubuntu cds just came
[11:37] <czajkowski> :)
[11:37] <czajkowski> sweet
[11:37] <tdr112> ebel: could you drop in the display stand , you have
[11:38] <ebel> tdr112: sure
[11:38] <tdr112> ebel: great
[12:02] <ziroday> Heya, I was wondering if someone could recommend me a cheap .ie doman registrar. Looking around the best I've got is EUR$17.46 which feels rather steep
[12:03] <davem> .ie's aren't cheap
[12:03] <ziroday> davem: I gathered :)
[12:03] <davem> http://domainoffers.me/
[12:03] <davem> €16.25 from us :)
[12:04] <slashtom> the cheaper option is a .eu
[12:04] <ziroday> davem: awesome! I was looking at blacknight but you have ~$20 on your site
[12:04] <davem> thats the special offers page
[12:05] <davem> its heavily referenced from the blog but not the main page
[12:06] <ziroday> and that's not just a sign up special right? That stays throughout even after the first year?
[12:06] <ziroday> slashtom: its a wordplay so it needs to be an .ie
[12:07] <tdr112> czajkowski: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~tdr/blog/2010/11/11/ubuntu-cds/
[12:07] <ebel> ziroday: .ie are intentionally high
[12:07] <ebel> though they've come down in price. Time was they used to cost ~ €50 → €75 per year for a .ie
[12:07] <davem> ziroday: its just for the 1st year
[12:07] <davem> afaik
[12:07] <ebel> I use blacknight for my domains.
[12:08] <ebel> they have sponsored ubuntu ireland with free web hosting
[12:08] <ziroday> Sweet, well the prices aren't that bad at all, I'll try them out, and if Godaddy keeps ticking me off I might move all my domains over
[12:08] <ziroday> ebel: awesome!
[12:09] <davem> ebel: whats the URL?
[12:09]  * slashtom also uses Blacknight (switching from 1and1)
[12:09] <ebel> http://www.blacknight.com/
[12:09] <davem> for the ubuntu ireland
[12:09]  * davem works for blacknight
[12:10] <davem> hence the blatant advertising :)
[12:10] <ebel> they have given us hosting, but we're trying to find volunteers who want to make the website :P
[12:10] <ebel> ah hehehehe
[12:10] <ebel> y'know how it is with volunteer organisations. :)
[12:11] <ebel> Our normal website is http://www.ubuntu-ie.org, but that's still running on canonical's servers
[12:13] <ziroday> oof I didn't know the <blink> tag was even used anymore
[12:14] <ziroday> ouch VAT?
[12:17] <davem> ziroday: welcome to the world of marketing :)
[12:17] <ziroday> heh, I forgot what its like to live in a country that seriously taxes :P
[12:22] <ziroday> oh dear davem you don't like my credit card.
[12:32] <davem> contact accounts
[16:36] <ebel> davem: how many people work in blacknight? friend is looking for hosting company
[16:36] <ebel> (feel free to poke Moof on this network :P )
[16:43] <davem> why does he ask?
[16:43] <davem> is he looking for a job??
[16:48] <slashtom> davem: he's worried his provider will go out of business (again)
[16:50] <ebel> haha, yeah that was funny last time
[16:57] <davem> rofl
[16:57] <davem> afaik we're now the largest registrar in ireland and its still climbing so not likely that we'll go out of business
[16:57] <davem> who was his previous crowd?
[17:07] <ebel> davem: i think there were in morocco or spain


[00:07] <mwenning> lazyPower, you still out there?
[00:08] <mwenning> ok, catch you in the morning
[00:10] <marcoceppi> aisrael: yup, cheetah, but do whatever you want
[00:10] <marcoceppi> you like Jinja? use that
[00:24] <mwenning> good night!
[01:28] <aisrael> marcoceppi: ack. Either one will be new to me, but I'll take a poke around and see which one works the best for me.
[12:46] <gnuoy> I'm trying to do juju sync-tools but I'm getting this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/8417850/ .  And if so how do I see what tools the maas environment already has ?
[12:49] <gnuoy> juju help sync-tools
[12:54] <gnuoy> mgz, sorry to ping you directly but do you know where maas stores its copy of juju-tools ?
[13:11] <marcoceppi> gnuoy: doesn't it go in the blobstore in postgresql that maas exposes?
[13:12] <gnuoy> marcoceppi, that sounds like a distinct possibility, I'll have a look at the database
[13:45] <mgz> gnuoy: that is indeed the case, you can also use the maas cli to inspect
[13:47] <gnuoy> mgz, excellent. I think I'm hitting a bug tbh but the maas cli should help me confirm
[13:48] <gnuoy> mgz, do you know what the maas cli command is ?
[13:50] <gnuoy> mgz, I see files list but no sign of tools http://paste.ubuntu.com/8418226/
[13:57] <lazyPower> sebas5384: i just saw you accepted the invite. o/ how many will be attending?
[13:58] <sebas5384> hey lazyPower, don't know yet
[13:58] <lazyPower> Okie dokie
[13:58] <sebas5384> but I think at least two people
[13:58] <sebas5384> i'm going to the hangout :)
[14:02] <sebas5384> lazyPower: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/drupal-aumlet here?
[14:02] <lazyPower> yep
[14:02] <lazyPower> i'm already there
[14:03] <sebas5384> thats wired
[14:03] <sebas5384> ohhh hangout trolling our life again
[14:03] <lazyPower> having an issue joining?
[14:04] <gnuoy> natefinch, sorry to bother you again but does this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/8418336/ with sync'ing tools ring any bells with you ?
[14:05] <natefinch> gnuoy: no bother, it's specifically my job to help ;)
[14:05] <gnuoy> \o/
[14:06] <natefinch> gnuoy: this part looks suspicious: invalid binary version "1.21-alpha1.1--amd64"
[14:06] <gnuoy> agreed
[14:06] <natefinch> like, why --?
[14:06] <gnuoy> natefinch, my guess is a bug in trying to decode the version data embedded in the tools filename
[14:07] <natefinch> ahh, yeah, I think I get it... it's not --   it's -<series>-  ... except series is empty for some reason
[14:08] <natefinch> so, something is failing to parse the series from win2012r2
[14:09] <natefinch> or, it's failing in the process somewhere, since we're not seeing an actual error until it looks for the binary
[14:10] <jamespage> gnuoy, I think we have some of our joined hook conditional processing based on being leader wrong
[14:15] <natefinch> gnuoy: sorry, in a meeting right now, but I can help later today.  in #juju-dev is gsamafira who wrote a lot of the windows support code, and he might be able to help, too.  I pinged him there, but seems like he's AFK right now.
[14:15] <natefinch> gnuoy: what timezone are you in?
[14:15] <gnuoy> uk
[14:15] <gnuoy> utc+1
[14:19] <natefinch> gnuoy: ok, I'm us-east, UTC-4 so, will try to get back before your EOD
[14:19] <natefinch> ahh, there's gsamfira.  gnuoy is having a problem deploying a windows charm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8418336/
[14:20] <natefinch> noteably: agent-state-info: invalid binary version "1.21-alpha1.1--amd64"    where -- is -<series>-   ... so series is getting set to an empty string at some point
[14:21] <gsamfira> gnuoy: if you look on the state machine, do you see any errors in the logs
[14:21] <gsamfira> something like "could not find tools for"
[14:21] <gnuoy> otp will look in a sec
[14:22] <gsamfira> also, how are you uploading the tools?
[14:22] <gsamfira> nvm
[14:22] <gsamfira> sync-tools
[14:31] <gnuoy> gsamfira, with sync-tools (I included the sync-tools command in the pastebin)
[14:31] <gsamfira> gnuoy: can you try the latest master of juju. You seam to be using an older version  (it should be alpha2). Also, please provide the logs of your state machine. Also, please use hyper-v server 2012 R2 instead of windows server 2012 R2. You do not need windows server just for nova-hyperv. Hyper-V server 2012 installs quicker, and does not require a license.
[14:31] <gnuoy> gsamfira, I think the statemachine may contain the smoking gun
[14:32] <gnuoy> gsamfira, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8418508/
[14:33] <stokachu> marcoceppi, the test runner for charms does that basically juju deploy a charm in lxc and run whatever is in tests/*.test?
[14:35] <gsamfira> gnuoy: looks like the tools finder might be the problem. I have not touched that in a long time, but someone else might have. Are you using the latest trunk?
[14:35] <stokachu> marcoceppi, also does manage.jujucharms.com interpret TAP output?
[14:36] <gsamfira> let me do a quick test with the latest master
[14:38] <rick_h_> stokachu: no, it doesn't.
[14:38] <stokachu> rick_h_, how does the testing show the report? just pass/fail if the test returns error code?
[14:39] <gnuoy> gsamfira, so I need to. Upload a Hyper-V server 2012 image to maas and switch to using juju 1.21-alpha2 . I built jujud.exe on a windows server 2012 R2 server can I still use that binary or do I need to rebuild with the hyperv edition (I'm guessing I don't need to) ?
[14:39] <rick_h_> stokachu: yes, it used to be that manage would check the test results in jenkins. With the new test suite I don't believe they're hooked up at the moment.
[14:39] <gsamfira> you can use the same binary
[14:39] <gsamfira> gnuoy ^
[14:39] <gnuoy> gsamfira, thanks
[14:39] <rick_h_> stokachu: it's something that has to be worked out as the testing tools get closer to general consumption
[14:39] <rick_h_> stokachu: so the TAP note is interesting
[14:40] <gsamfira> the thing is, that windows server 2012 R2 does not have the hyper-v role enabled by default AFAIK
[14:40] <gsamfira> gnuoy are you using fastpath for windows? :)
[14:40] <rick_h_> stokachu: but would have to work with through jenkins and the test runner it looks like. Not sure if it's on their radar at atm.
[14:40] <stokachu> rick_h_, yea, i think having TAP would be beneficial as people could write tests in whatever language they want
[14:40] <stokachu> rick_h_, so the test runner does jenkins deploy the charm and then run the tests?
[14:41] <rick_h_> stokachu: I believe so. It handles the bootstrap/etc and then then the tests run against the deployment.
[14:41] <stokachu> rick_h_, ok cool, thanks for the response
[14:42] <rick_h_> stokachu: np, thanks for the TAP earworm, something to think about.
[14:42] <stokachu> rick_h_, np, there isn't a place to file enhancement requests for the manage.jujucharms.com app is there?
[14:43] <rick_h_> stokachu: well, it's not really manage. It's really just the consumer. I'm looking to see if the testing stuff is up somewhere a bug can be filed. tvansteenburgh have the link handy?
[14:43] <stokachu> ah ok
[14:44]  * tvansteenburgh reads scrollback
[14:44] <rick_h_> tvansteenburgh: is there a place to file bugs against the charm testing work?
[14:44]  * rick_h_ is looking through GH and LP for something that looks like 'charm testing'
[14:44] <gnuoy> gsamfira does editing the node in maas to set the os and release  set the installer correctly or is there another step there ?
[14:45] <gsamfira> you only set the OS in MaaS if you plan on deploying it via MaaS. Juju takes care of requesting the proper OS from MaaS
[14:45] <gsamfira> so no need to worry about that
[14:46] <gsamfira> gnuoy: the only thing to worry about when deploying windows server 2012, is that you have the KMS keys set up so it won't prompt for a serial key when installing
[14:46] <gnuoy> kk
[14:46] <gnuoy> gsamfira, but thats not a problem when using the hyperv image, right ?
[14:47] <gsamfira> gnuoy: right
[14:47] <gnuoy> excellent
[14:47] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h_, stokachu: https://github.com/tvansteenburgh/charmguardian
[14:47] <tvansteenburgh> that's what actually kicks off a test in jenkins
[14:47] <gsamfira> Hyper-v server does not require a key. Its free to use, unlimited, bla bla bla
[14:48] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h_, stokachu: feel free to file stuff there, i'll move it if necessary
[14:48] <rick_h_> tvansteenburgh: ty much
[14:49] <tvansteenburgh> that repo will move under juju-solutions GH namespace soon, just haven't gotten around to it yet
[14:49] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, cool, so what causes a test to fail the return code of each test?
[14:49] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: correct
[14:50] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, and tests are run like ./tests/00-basic.test individually?
[14:50] <stokachu> or does it run like nosetests or something
[14:50] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: tests can be anything executable in charmdir/tests/
[14:50] <stokachu> ok cool
[14:50] <tvansteenburgh> it will also run `make lint` and `make test` targets if they exist
[14:50] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu:  ^
[14:51] <gsamfira> gnuoy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8418625/ <-- latest trunk
[14:51] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, cool thats good to know, the lint tool could it be a custom one?
[14:51] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: yeah, whatever you want
[14:51] <stokachu> thats pimp
[14:52] <gnuoy> gsamfira, fantastic, let me give that a try
[14:52] <stokachu> so the frontend just parses this json  output then?
[14:52] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: yep, that's right http://reports.vapour.ws/charm-tests-by-charm
[14:52] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, and also what about lint output ?
[14:53] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: all output is captured and included in the test report details
[14:53] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, ok cool so long as my output is readable and comprehensable that would be ok?
[14:54] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: e.g. lint output: http://reports.vapour.ws/charm-tests/charm-bundle-test-942-results/charm/charm-testing-hp/1
[14:54] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: yep
[14:54] <gsamfira> gnuoy: if you like, you can get the binaries from: http://gaby.rohost.com/tools/
[14:54] <stokachu> sweet
[14:54] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, so with this setup would it even make sense to support TAP output?
[14:55] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: sorry i don't know what TAP is?
[14:55] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, http://testanything.org/
[14:55]  * tvansteenburgh looks
[14:56] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, i use it a lot with my cpan modules
[14:56] <stokachu> but it works across several languages
[14:58] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: interesting. patches welcome :)
[14:58] <gsamfira> gnuoy: or even set your tools-metadata-url: to that value in environments.yaml
[14:58] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, cool, i can work on that if you aren't opposed to it
[14:59] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: i'm not opposed, i'm just fairly certain that it won't be something i have time for in the near future
[14:59] <gnuoy> gsamfira,  I'll give the binary I built a try but if that fails I'll definitely grab those, thanks
[14:59] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, no worries i can take a stab at it and open a PR
[14:59] <gsamfira> gnuoy: my pleasure
[15:05] <sebas5384> thanks! lazyPower++
[15:05] <sebas5384> :)
[15:06] <lazyPower> sebas5384: my pleasure. Looking forward to the follow up where we can sink our teeth into your use cases
[15:06] <sebas5384> lazyPower: sounds great!
[15:06] <lazyPower> sebas5384: i'll schedule out a 2 hour block next time as well. Get me the list of names so we can get everyone together at teh same time isntead of a staggered start.
[15:08] <sebas5384> yeah definitively, and now that the team get all excited about, we are going to have more people contributing into it
[15:08] <sebas5384> :)
[15:10] <sebas5384> lazyPower: when you can send us the link of the recorder hangout, there are people that want to see already hehe
[15:10] <lazyPower> sebas5384: sure, let me export it, and edit off the extra 5 minutes i just recorded
[15:10]  * lazyPower forgot i was recording
[15:11] <sebas5384> hehe
[15:13] <lazyPower> sebas5384: exporting now and i'll upload it unlisted to youtube for your team. incoming link shortly.
[15:14] <sebas5384> lazyPower: thanks :)
[15:18] <whit> nice definition of "Da Cloud": https://wiki.mozilla.org/CloudServices#Get_Involved
[16:19] <aisrael> I think a charmer needs to look at this and change the status of this MP (disapproved): https://code.launchpad.net/~jaywink/charms/trusty/postgresql/swiftwal_missing_functionality/+merge/235394
[16:50] <themonk> JoshStrobl, hi
[16:50] <themonk> i am facing a strange problem
[16:51] <themonk> i set relation in join hook in charm 1
[16:52] <themonk> and try to get that data in charm 2 in change hook, but getting None type value
[16:53] <themonk> my other charm are working ok
[16:54] <themonk> can any one give me any hint
[16:55] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, is make lint run in the deployed charm or just in the checked out repo directory
[16:57] <stokachu> or should i just have a target to make sure required dependencies are installed for a custom lint program to run
[16:58] <tvansteenburgh> stokachu: the latter
[16:58] <stokachu> tvansteenburgh, ok cool, thanks again
[16:58] <tvansteenburgh> np
[16:59] <tvansteenburgh> cd /tmp
[17:02]  * JoshStrobl was afk
[19:15] <rcj> Can I set constraints in environments.yaml?  Specifically instance-type for EC2.
[19:39] <Tug> rcj: You don't set instance-type in evironment config
[19:40] <Tug> Here is the list of available params: http://juju-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/provider-configuration-ec2.html
[19:40] <Tug> you can set machine constraints when you deploy a service
[19:40] <Tug> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/reference-constraints.html
[19:49] <Tug> Some of my instances are scheduled for reboot by aws. I'm wondering is it something juju can handle ?
[19:49] <Tug> Like did you think about restarting all the units on reboot?
[19:50] <rcj> Tug, I want to avoid 'juju bootstrap --constraints="instance-type=m3.medium"' by having an setting in environment.yaml if it were available.
[19:51] <Tug> rcj, yeah but as you see, it has been deprecated
[19:51] <Tug> not sure it's working today
[19:52] <lazyPower> Tug: once your api controller fires back up and your agents re-connect it will fire a config-changed event across the nodes
[19:54] <Tug> ok thx lazyPower, so I guess config-changed should actually start the process if it's not running
[19:54] <Tug> but it's the job of the charmer to know that
[19:54] <lazyPower> yeah, i've seen a lot of the charms fire off hooks/start
[19:55] <lazyPower> which is a decent pattern to adopt. It'll be a telling story as to which services dont come back online -  also - to note, if they have good upstart scripts you should be fine
[19:56] <Tug> mm not all charms run the underlying service using upstart.
[19:56] <Tug> For instance mongodb is run as a shell command from a python script with a deamonize option
[19:58] <Tug> anyway it's good to know
[19:59] <lazyPower> Tug: are you running the MongoDB charm in production?
[19:59] <Tug> lazyPower, yes
[19:59] <Tug> I have actually modified it
[20:00] <lazyPower> we should talk - as i'm the present hot seat maintainer for the MongoDB charm - anything that you found that was papercut worthy is totally worth investigating
[20:00] <lazyPower> i'm still hacking through other priorities but its high on my list of TODO's to triage it in its current state and give it more love/tests
[20:00] <Tug> sure :)
[20:00] <Tug> I haven't hacked on it for a while
[20:01] <Tug> but I can try to help
[20:01] <lazyPower> are you running a single node, or cluster?
[20:01] <lazyPower> and is it replicated/sharded if cluster?
[20:01] <Tug> I was running a 12 instances cluster (3 shards)
[20:01] <Tug> I'm actually removing 2 shards at the moment
[20:02] <Tug> because it's starting to be quite expensive ^^
[20:03] <lazyPower> indeed. Have you looked at running them on DigitalOcean?
[20:03] <lazyPower> DO makes for a zippy MongoDB host, as their VPS's are SSD backed, and a fraction of AWS costs
[20:03] <Tug> Nop. I have free credits on amazon at the moment (startup credits)
[20:03] <lazyPower> ah, very nice
[20:03] <sarnold> for the micro instances?
[20:04] <sarnold> those things are slooooow :)
[20:04] <Tug> mongod are running on m3.medium instances
[20:05] <Tug> with ebs provisioned iops storage
[20:06] <Tug> sarnold, nop it's real credits for everything on aws for 2 years
[20:06] <Tug> limited to a few K
[20:07] <Tug> anyway, this was my branch https://code.launchpad.net/~dekervit/charms/precise/mongodb/trunk
[20:08] <sarnold> Tug: oh cool :)
[20:08] <lazyPower> ahhh i remember this branch
[20:08] <lazyPower> and the comment on the bug before about the replicaset relation-changed method needing refactoring
[20:09] <Tug> yes, it was me :)
[20:09] <Tug> like 3 months ago
[20:09] <Tug> ;)
[20:09] <lazyPower> mhmm
[20:09] <lazyPower> progress has been slow, i dont have the time to really manage teh charm like it should be managed
[20:10] <Tug> I haven't followed juju development for a while now. I guess you added ways to do automated testing and stuff
[20:10] <natefinch> rcj: it would be worth writing up a bug asking to support constraints in the environments.yaml.... that seems like a pretty nice feature
[20:11] <rcj> natefinch, sounds good
[20:11] <lazyPower> Tug: Yep. Amulet testing, bundletester, etc. I'm working on the charm authorship docs as we speak actually
[20:11] <rcj> natefinch, looks default instance type was removed
[20:12] <Tug> lazyPower, nice, I'll want to have a look :)
[20:13] <lazyPower> http://github.com/juju/docs - if you want to star/watch the repo you can get up to the minute updates
[20:13] <natefinch> rcj: yeah, I think that's been gone ever since we switched away from pyjuju .... the instance-type constraint was only added back fairly recently (April).  It should be pretty trivial to add support for reading constraints from environments.yaml, I'd think.
[20:13] <Tug> lazyPower, done
[20:14] <rcj> natefinch, cool
[20:14] <Tug> anyway I might get back on mongodb charms soon. If I can make it stable enough maybe it can be merged into the main branch ;)
[20:19] <lazyPower> mbruzek, marcoceppi - https://github.com/juju/docs/pull/172
[20:25] <natefinch> rick_h_: let me know if I screwed anything up in that doc ;)
[20:26] <rick_h_> natefinch: thanks looking
[20:28] <mbruzek> lazyPower:  To quote tvansteenburgh, "I saw what you did there, and I didn't like it"
[20:28] <mbruzek> lazyPower: There is some merge text in your document you want to clean up.
[20:28] <lazyPower> what?
[20:29] <lazyPower> looking
[20:29] <mbruzek> lazyPower: your pull request
[20:29]  * lazyPower throws a fit
[20:29] <lazyPower> thats it, i'm going back to vim diff
[20:29] <lazyPower> screw meld
[20:29] <lazyPower> oh wait, it has the .orig file included
[20:29] <lazyPower> what kind of nonsense is this, thats user error
[20:31] <lazyPower> mbruzek: corrected and repushed
[20:33] <lamont> is there really no named charm?
[20:33] <lazyPower> lamont: there's a start to a dns-charm that would have support for named
[20:33] <lazyPower> but its nowhere near ready for public consumption
[20:34] <lazyPower> lamont: https://github.com/chuckbutler/DNS-Charm
[20:34] <lazyPower> there are spec docs included in the charm if you want to lend a hand
[20:34] <lamont> lazyPower: I'll look.
[20:35] <lamont> I also have an openvpn-server charm to upload, that actually charms the things I want charmed (no, the CA does not belong anywhere near the openvpn endpoint)
[20:36] <lazyPower> lamont: stuff it in your namespace, and open a review ticket against it :)
[20:37] <lamont> could you expand upon "my namespace"?
[20:37] <lazyPower> lamont: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-store.html#name-space-charms
[20:37] <lamont> thank yo
[20:39] <lazyPower> lamont: the idea is its 2 stage. No reviews required for your charm to be listed in the charm store under your namespace. When you're ready to undergo the review process to become a recommended charm - you then progress to the next stage. This is 2 fold 1) this enables you to get moving quickly and have your charm listed in the charm store without high walls to hurdle. 2) you can get community feedback on your charm through use of your charm in your
[20:39] <lazyPower> namespace, before you have a charmer look at it  (but we're open to reviewing charms anytime regardless of recommended status desire - so feel free to open a review ticket at any time)
[22:24] <lazyPower> hazmat, kwmonroe, mbruzek, marcoceppi - https://github.com/juju/docs/pull/181  - Digital Ocean provider docs
[22:33] <kwmonroe> lazyPower: the v1 api stumped me for a bit earlier this week.  glad you got explicit with the screenshots.  i'll circle back tonight for a merge if nobody has other comments.
[22:33] <lazyPower> ack. Thanks kwmonroe
[23:28] <arosales> lazyPower: DO doc commented on
[23:28] <arosales> thats https://github.com/juju/docs/pull/181 for referernce.


[02:54] <mdz> good morning folks
[02:54] <zul> evening
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Noon.
[02:54] <dieman> evening.
[02:54] <dieman> cold evening.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Good 1PM.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Good lunch.
[02:55] <BenC> good night :)
[02:55] <ogra> (very very very early) mornig
[02:55] <doko_> insane time ... ;-)
[02:55] <ogra> still 5 min to go
[02:55] <mdz> janeW: ping
[02:55] <BenC> through me off that this is actually 9pm Wed for me
[02:56] <zul> oh yeah i have to go tape lost...brb
[02:56] <ogra> mdz, she asked if someone could call her if she doent appear
[02:56] <ogra> *doesnt
[02:58] <BenC> fix me a cup too please?
[02:58] <YukiIkyuta> w00t, tea.
[02:58] <fabbione> hmmm 2 minutes.. right time for a smoke :)
[02:59] <janeW> mdz: pong
[02:59] <janeW> *yawn*
[02:59] <pitti> Hello
[02:59] <seb128> hey pitti
[03:00] <janeW> argh, whose idea WAS this!? ;)
[03:00] <doko_> let's start before the coffee gets cold :-)
[03:00] <pitti> coffee?
[03:00] <pitti> how do you want to sleep again after coffee?
[03:00] <seb128> pitti: stuff you drink to wake up on the morning
[03:00] <janeW> pitti: via IV please ;)
[03:01] <calc> janeW: its a good time in the US ;)
[03:01] <seb128> pitti: who said something about sleeping *again*? :)
[03:01] <mdz> waiting to hear from infinity, Riddell, Diziet and daniels
[03:01] <Riddell> I'm here
[03:01] <pitti> seb128: I won't stay awake after getting up at 3...
[03:01] <janeW> calc: heh - not in ZA though (4am)
[03:01] <mvo> pitti: we all know that seb128 does not sleep
[03:01] <calc> janeW: exactly :)
[03:01] <seb128> pitti: sissi :p
[03:01] <pitti> right - "must ... package ... crack"
[03:01] <seb128> lol
[03:02] <calc> pitti: sorry that package name already taken :)
[03:02] <Keybuk> infinity went to bed ~8 hours ago, so he might need waking up
[03:03] <ogra> probably daniels could poke him
[03:03] <ogra> of jdub
[03:03] <ogra> *or
[03:03] <mdz> sent SMS to infinity and daniels
[03:03] <mdz> Kamion: have you seen Ian?
[03:03] <Kamion> mdz: just about to phone him
[03:03] <doko_> so, the australians take their 3pm tea break?   I should've been quicker.
[03:05] <jbailey> janeW: I can be a scary voice to hear on the phone at 2am. =)
[03:05] <janeW> jbailey: lol, that
[03:06] <janeW> 's what I thought, fear woke me up ;)
[03:06] <jbailey> <voice style="raspy,deep">Hello, Jane.  We're waiting for you.</voice
[03:06] <mdz> ok, we need to start without them
[03:06] <BenC> let 'er rip
[03:06] <mdz> let's go in spreadsheet order
[03:06] <mdz> BenC
[03:06] <daniels> actally, I'd like to go first
[03:06] <BenC> ubuntu-server-kernel: in progress - 2.6.15-7.9 contains i386 server kernels. The kernels will be renamed in -8.10. Amd64 will get server kernels in -8.10 aswell (same style as i386 server kernels).
[03:06] <BenC> preventing-hardware-support-regressions: not started
[03:06] <BenC> testing-server-hardware: not started - Will start on this in coming week
[03:06] <daniels> or second
[03:07] <BenC> actually, preventing-hw-s-r will start this week too
[03:07] <mdz> BenC: thanks
[03:07] <mdz> daniels: ok
[03:07] <mdz> (you're second on the spreadsheet anyway)
[03:07] <infinity> Sorry I'm late.
[03:08] <mdz> daniels?
[03:08] <doko_> we know ;-)
[03:08] <daniels> this week: fixed driver FTBFSes (build-depends), updated versions for RC3
[03:08] <daniels> next week: continued work on RC3, hopefully get started on 'xorg' source package
[03:08] <daniels> blocked: none
[03:08] <daniels> x-roadmap: mostly there, just tracking continued version updates.  maintainer
[03:08] <daniels> scripts still need some loving.
[03:08] <mdz> daniels: thanks
[03:08] <mdz> dholbach: next
[03:08] <dholbach> inclusion-of-docs: another update, talked to doc-team about some changes
[03:08] <dholbach> this week: DesktopTeam/TODO, DesktopTeam/NewSoftware, get-bug-number-sane-again, get-a11y-team-rolling, revu-weekend
[03:08] <dholbach> next week: dont-make-seb-cry-over-bug-load, have-fun-with-gnome-2.13.3, pre-christmas-cleanup-bugday, meet slomo and siretart to discuss media-related test plan and media-bits of example-content
[03:09] <mdz> dholbach: what's happening with power management configuration?
[03:09] <ogra> mdz, mjg59 took it
[03:09] <dholbach> mdz: i didnt do much since then, mjg59 already did an upload
[03:09] <ogra> g-p-m works fine already
[03:09] <pitti> dholbach: I can feel your relief :)
[03:09] <mdz> janeW: did mjg59 send you any information about it?
[03:10] <janeW> mdz: no not at all
[03:10] <dholbach> i will try to reconfirm
[03:10] <mdz> dholbach: if mjg59 is taking that over, make test plans your next priority
[03:10] <dholbach> ok
[03:10] <ogra> mdz, i'd call it nearly done
[03:10] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[03:10] <mdz> doko_: next
[03:10] <janeW> should mjg59 be at these meetings if he is taking the goal?
[03:10] <doko_> this week (including weekend):
[03:10] <doko_> - toolchain-roadmap: amd64-biarch (still blocked); gcc* packages updated, tuning to pentium4 by default instead of i686 (i386 only); gij-4.1/gcj-4.1 packaging finished, pending upload; ant/java bugzilla work
[03:10] <doko_> - toolchain-dapper+1: updated packages for test rebuild, now blocked by preparation of buildd's.
[03:10] <doko_> - python-roadmap: deferred during last meeting, priority on ...
[03:10] <doko_> - openoffice.org: updated to 2.0.1rc1 (ooo2, -l10n, -amd64, -helpcontent), fixed amd64 build, build native amd64 packages (suffix -experimental)
[03:10] <doko_> openoffice.org-gnome: no reply from martink, will phone him this week
[03:10] <doko_> problems: disk space on concordia, 1GB uploads from home suck.
[03:10] <doko_> next week:
[03:10] <doko_> - python-roadmap: python-central update
[03:10] <doko_> - openoffice.org: bugzilla work; support work(?)
[03:11] <Keybuk> janeW: it's 2am for him, and he doesn't work for us, it's a bit unfair to demand it
[03:11] <mdz> janeW: Keybuk++, an email update would be reasonable
[03:11] <fabbione> doko_: disk space on concordia will be fixed really soon (got feedback from Karl on the rt)
[03:11] <janeW> Keybuk: right, but he should give an update anyway and/or attend when he can
[03:11] <mdz> doko_: what's blocking biarch? glibc?
[03:11] <jbailey> Yup
[03:11] <doko_> mdz: yes, jbailey will upload soon
[03:11] <mdz> jbailey: what's happening there?
[03:11] <janeW> mdz: I'll mail him
[03:12] <jbailey> mdz: It builds now, just the last packaging changes and one questions.  It's in my status report.
[03:12] <mdz> ok
[03:12] <mdz> doko_: thanks
[03:12] <mdz> fabbione: next
[03:12] <fabbione> * server-candy: md5client in progress and it starts to look ok. code is very small and it is already partially integrated with d-i rescue mode. Mailing
[03:12] <fabbione>  list is configured. Announce by tomorrow. More suggestions are coming from different people. Agreed with mdz to add a new spec as wishlist but had no
[03:12] <fabbione> time to write it.
[03:12] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: redhat cluster suite and ocfs2 updates (kernel and userland) that still requires a bit of testing. A few small pkgs still to upgrade
[03:13] <fabbione> before start looking into new stuff. More people to test for regressions would be good.
[03:13] <fabbione> * probe-for-root-filesystem: WIP, start looking into it and the new udev does what we need. Discussion with Kamion/Keybuk/infinity about some minor pro
[03:13] <fabbione> blems associated to the implementation, all sorted.
[03:13] <fabbione> * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.
[03:13] <fabbione> * merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, util-linux - pending lamont to upload and test a new upstream version (and that might actually kill the
[03:13] <fabbione> need of the merge).
[03:13] <fabbione> * last week: worked on specs. mails.. usual stuff.
[03:13] <fabbione> * next week: keep going server-candy full speed. Expect to deliver the first useable bits of the md5client. Write the spec agreed with mdz. Try to do s
[03:13] <fabbione> ome tests with the new cluster software.
[03:13] <fabbione> * notes: thursday 15th i will be away almost all day travelling to the other side of DK to give a talk about Ubuntu. the 16th i will probably start lat
[03:13] <fabbione> er than usual (it depends how late i will come back the 15th + dentist).
[03:13] <fabbione> oh
[03:14] <fabbione> installer-volume-manager is out of my report since it's implemented
[03:14] <fabbione> JaneW: ^^
[03:14] <mdz> fabbione: my feeling on probe-for-root is that we should do it by default in the installer if the root filesystem is on a USB device or similar, but otherwise default to the current behaviour
[03:14] <mdz> fabbione: is that what you've in mind as well?
[03:14] <janeW> fabbione: great
[03:14] <Keybuk> probe-for-root won't work on ide devices
[03:14] <mdz> Keybuk: why not?
[03:14] <fabbione> mdz: no, we will do it where we can.
[03:14] <fabbione> Keybuk: ?????
[03:14] <fabbione> Keybuk: let's take this after the meeting
[03:15] <Keybuk> k
[03:15] <mdz> fabbione: I'm a little nervous about such an intrusive change to the default boot process
[03:15] <mdz> fabbione: yes, let's talk another time about it
[03:15] <mdz> fabbione: thanks for the updates
[03:15] <fabbione> mdz: we can try and test.. and we can decide.
[03:15] <mdz> infinity: next
[03:15] <infinity> last week: lots more work on linux-restricted-modules, security updates, udev/kernel debugging, and buildd tracking.  Started work on thunderbird 1.5 as well.  Not much spec progress this last week, but:
[03:15] <infinity> splash-down: should be uploading packages tomorrow to turn this feature on.
[03:15] <infinity> next week: More work on usplash/initramfs-related specs, and more of the rest of my non-spec-related job tasks, I suspect.
[03:15] <calc> is probe for root similar to what yaird is doing on 2.6.12+ ?
[03:16] <mdz> calc: launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/probe-for-root-filesystem or so
[03:16] <calc> thx
[03:16] <fabbione> calc: no.
[03:16] <Evaso2> i doesn't know if could be useful for help also ubuntu but there is a good page about some statistics here: http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/points.html
[03:16] <mdz> infinity: there's a new nvidia driver out; please see that we get that in as well (either you or BenC)
[03:16] <mdz> infinity: what of your remaining merges?
[03:17] <infinity> mdz : I have the orig already rolled, just need to test the update on my girlfriends' computer.
[03:17] <infinity> mdz : It fixes a mess of bugs on x86_64, it would seem.
[03:17] <Kamion> Evaso2: please keep extraneous comments until after the meeting, preferably on a different channel; we have an agenda and a tight timescale here
[03:17] <BenC> infinity: I can test aswell, have a GeForce4 here
[03:17] <Evaso2> Kamoin: ok
[03:17] <dholbach> infinity: nice, i can test it on x86_64 if you want
[03:17] <infinity> mdz : thunderbird and php should be my only outstanding merges, unless I missed one, tbird is jumping to 1.5, php is happening when I upload all the security stuff later today.
[03:18] <BenC> infinity: does it get things working on ia64 yet, because I can test that too
[03:18] <infinity> dholbach : Thanks, I have a 6800GT on amd64, but if your card is different, the more testing the merrier.
[03:18] <mdz> infinity: enigmail and initramfs-tools are also on your list
[03:18] <infinity> BenC : No ia64 drivers.
[03:18] <dholbach> infinity: excellent
[03:18] <mdz> infinity: initramfs-tools may be bogus; I commented in bugzilla
[03:18] <infinity> mdz : enigmail is blocked on tbird (no need to merge it right now), and initramfs-tools is more of a back and forth cherry-picking between the Debian maintainer and I.
[03:18] <BenC> infinity: remind me later about my ia64-nvidia work, I have it setup
[03:18] <mdz> infinity: please set the status whiteboard for those bugs accordingly
[03:19] <infinity> BenC : Oh, yes, it works, but it's an old driver, not updated in eons, and we dropped support for it long ago.
[03:19] <infinity> mdz : Check.
[03:19] <BenC> no, I mean using the same source :)
[03:19] <mdz> infinity: how does reducing-duplication stand?
[03:19] <infinity> BenC : Oh, cool.  Talk to me after the meeting.
[03:20] <infinity> mdz : No major progress to report this last week, unless pitti jumped some hurdles I'm not aware of, but it grinds on.
[03:20] <infinity> doko_ : We will need help on punting python2.3 ASAP, BTW.
[03:20] <pitti> no big ones, I was busy with other stuff
[03:20] <mdz> infinity: how far are we from completing the parts which are in the existing spec?
[03:20] <Kamion> I've been demoting the odd random thing to universe, but nothing major
[03:20] <infinity> doko_ : So, I hope things are falling into place for that.
[03:20] <pitti> mdz: I updated the wiki page, btw
[03:20] <doko_> infinity: yes, scheduled for next week
[03:21] <infinity> doko_ : Rock on.
[03:21] <mdz> infinity: ok, the wiki page answers that question
[03:21] <infinity> Oh!.. Missed MySQL 5.0 in my update.
[03:21] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[03:21] <mdz> janeW: please chase Ian tomorrow for an update
[03:21] <mdz> jbailey: next
[03:21] <infinity> mdz : Been evaluating MySQL 5.0, close to making a decision there, but I need a short followup with you about it.
[03:21] <jbailey> * ToolchainRoadmap: Per last weeks meeting, libc-i386 coming this week for amd64.  Need to decide if we feel like providing both LinuxThreads and NPTL.  ia32-libs did, but this makes the packaging *much* messier.  lkh biarch fixed so it actually works.
[03:21] <jbailey> * ToolchainRoadmapNg: After the glibc biarch, will start to evaluate glibc needs.  Want to start collecting feedback on dropping pre-i686 per  outstanding issues .
[03:21] <jbailey> * LocalesThatDontSuck: No bugs received from the locales changes, my desktop is still in French.  Assuming that my stuff is finished mod latent bugs.
[03:21] <jbailey> * Other: Still punting bugs to other people.  Need someone to take grub bugs by default.
[03:21] <jbailey> * Merges:  glibc TBD after biarch is finished.
[03:22] <doko_> infinity: db4.3 and oo2 still looks problematic
[03:22] <janeW> mdz: ok
[03:22] <mdz> infinity: ok
[03:22] <janeW> I have an update from jdub
[03:22] <mdz> infinity: grab me sometime when we're both around
[03:22] <infinity> doko_ : Ping me about it post-meeting.
[03:22] <janeW> jdub: example-content - Yeah, sorry - too much traveling to attend the meetings or get anything done on it. I plan to start doing stuff on it as soon as I return home from OSDC , and will hopefully get a huge chunk of it done before Christmas break.
[03:22] <mdz> who can give some love to grub?
[03:23] <Kamion> I've got half its bugs anyway, although many of them are throw-up-hands-in-despair material
[03:23] <mdz> Kamion: or rather, forward-upstream material?
[03:23] <jbailey> mdz: There is no upstream for grub1 anymore.
[03:23] <zul> mdz: i can try to help with the grub stuff
[03:23] <mdz> ugh
[03:24] <jbailey> It's pretty much an abandonned codebase in favour of grub2.
[03:24] <Kamion> what jbailey said, although actually there *was* a recent release
[03:24] <ogra> mdz, mjg59 ?
[03:24] <mdz> zul: that would be a great help; there's a lot in bugzilla which needs review and consolidation
[03:24] <zul> sure..
[03:24] <mdz> jbailey: is any distribution actually using grub2 yet, though?
[03:24] <jbailey> No.
[03:24] <Kamion> we're on 0.97 now and I think it probably killed a few bugs in bugzilla, although we need to ping submitters once we have something coherent for them to test
[03:24] <jbailey> I wouldn't recommend it for dapper.
[03:24] <jbailey> I have vague thoughts of packaging it for universe for fun, but not targetting main at all.
[03:25] <jbailey> I'm in regular contact with the grub2 upstreams.
[03:25] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[03:25] <mdz> jbailey: thanks
[03:25] <mdz> Kamion: next
[03:25] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-*, ue-*: Finally got Guadalinex work imported into bzr and started cleaning bits of it up. Started writing debconffilter integration code. Uploaded a debian-installer-utils change to build espresso-utils.deb, which saves me ripping out or reimplementing various tools.
[03:25] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-bootloader: Made os-prober work outside d-i and created a .deb (all upstream). Have been thinking about the rest of the design and hacking on experimental pieces, but not much code yet. (I decided to tackle this instead of partitioning because it gives me quicker visible return on effort.)
[03:25] <Kamion> cd-bootloader: gfxboot and syslinux uploaded; now I just need to write and install a theme and get loads of testing done. Spent this afternoon reading up on the language; noted that it isn't inherently tied to any particular video mode, which should help us a lot. Started hacking on an Ubuntu theme, cloned-and-hacked from the SuSE one.
[03:25] <Kamion> misc: Clarified archive-copier question for language-pack-vs-support.
[03:25] <Kamion> blocked: Flight CD 2 can't happen until somebody fixes casper to cope with d-i being initramfs now (which was blocked on getting live filesystems built, but I think we can do that now thanks to the mozilla-firefox-locale-all fix). I'll probably end up doing this myself.
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: have Mithrandir care for casper
[03:26] <Kamion> oh, I don't have a next-week there - that's pretty much hammer casper into submission for initramfs d-i, do flight cd 2, do a quick gfxboot theme and get that in, keep going with ubuntu-express-bootloader
[03:26] <jbailey> Kamion: Is it technical issues with initramfs'?  I can still be a resource since I've played with them alot.
[03:26] <Kamion> and whatever else needs to be done
[03:27] <janeW> Q, on going through the blocks/depends lists yesterday, many of the dapper goals depend on other goals, should we be tracking all those other goals on the spreadsheet (and project plan) too?
[03:27] <Kamion> jbailey: not really, it just needs to be adapted from pivot_root and it's only very recently (today) that you've been able to get a 2.6.15 live CD far enough to do anything with it
[03:27] <Kamion> mdz: ok, thanks
[03:27] <mdz> Kamion: I think we should talk about ubuntu-express and see what chunks others can start on
[03:27] <jbailey> Kamion: 'k.  Call if you need, though.
[03:27] <mdz> thanks Kamion, Keybuk next
[03:27] <Keybuk> udev-roadmap: been shaking out the big bugs, making good progress though and am feeling confident that the final product is a LOT better than breezy
[03:27] <Keybuk> (ide drivers vs. ide-generic -- fixed with a kernel patch so the ide driver wins)
[03:27] <Keybuk> (libata drivers vs. ide-generic -- fixed with a new script that only tries to load ide-generic if ROOT=/dev/hd* and it doesn't exist after probing for PCI controllers)
[03:27] <Keybuk> (scsi drivers vs. the clock -- fixed with same new script that waits for root node to appear if ROOT=/dev/sd*)
[03:27] <Keybuk> hardware-activation: no progress as been chasing udev bugs first
[03:27] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: fully tested and running on my laptop, now sysvinit is merged, will begin uploading the changes
[03:28] <Kamion> mdz: fine, but I'm still sorting out the pieces that *everything* else will depend on so I'm not sure more cooks will help just yet
[03:28] <Keybuk> network-magic: no progress.
[03:28] <Keybuk> next-week: other udev problems, streamlined boot and hardware-activation.
[03:29] <BenC> Kebuk: scsi drivers vs. clock, does that work for usb/ieee1394 drives for root aswell?
[03:29] <mdz> Keybuk: will either of those workarounds be foiled by probe-for-root in any meaningful way?
[03:29] <Keybuk> should do, yup
[03:29] <Keybuk> mdz: that's the thing that foils probe-for-root on plain-old-ide
[03:29] <Keybuk> because there's no way to know we might need to know ide-generic
[03:29] <Keybuk> and we flat-out can't load ide-generic if it's sata/scsi
[03:29] <mdz> isn't that a bug?
[03:30] <Keybuk> so I've had to assume that probe-for-root is scsi-a-like
[03:30] <Keybuk> you can call it a bug, but there's no way I can see to fix it
[03:30] <Keybuk> ide-generic claims unclaimed ide devices
[03:30] <Keybuk> modprobe ata_piix
[03:30] <Keybuk> modprobe ide-generic
[03:30] <Keybuk> usually, ide beats ata_piix to claiming the ide devices
[03:30] <mdz> janeW: dapper-release-process is implemented
[03:31] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[03:31] <mdz> janeW: update from Mithrandir?
[03:31] <Keybuk> this actually affected breezy too, except as infinity and I found out, even an echo between the two modprobes is enough to tilt the balance the other way
[03:31] <janeW> mdz: ok thanks
[03:31] <janeW> mdz: no, no one sent me any updates this week...
[03:31] <mdz> janeW: oh, right, he was on holiday
[03:32] <mdz> mvo: next
[03:32] <mvo> * 3rd party repostiories: only a bit work on gdebi (direct deb installs), no work done on gnome-app-install
[03:32] <mvo> * suggest packages to install to provide missing apps: some work with zyga,  progressing (not hight priority for me currently)
[03:32] <mvo> * unattended package upgrades: in the archive, needs testing, maybe backport to
[03:32] <mvo>  breezy to get this testing (in a unoffical archive of course)?
[03:32] <mvo> * upgrading from one ubuntu release to the next: actual dist-upgrade tool is making good progress, a sucessfull
[03:32] <mvo>   upgrade from hoary to breezy was performed. still work to do on
[03:32] <mvo>   the details and sanity checks
[03:32] <mvo>   (current gui: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/dist-upgrader/)
[03:32] <mvo> * package recommends: want to bounty daniel burrows (if possible)
[03:32] <mvo> Next week
[03:32] <mvo> - more work on the dist-upgrade tool
[03:32] <mvo> - gnome-app-install work for the second part of the 3rd party packages
[03:32] <mvo>   spec
[03:32] <mdz> Kamion: please follow up on bootchart-udeb and guide that into main for tollef
[03:32] <Kamion> mdz: already done
[03:32] <mdz> Kamion: ok, thanks
[03:33] <Kamion> mdz: just needs adding to the d-i pkg-lists, which is trivial; queued for next upload
[03:33] <jbailey> mvo: What's the spec called for upgrading from one release to the next?  I'd like to read up on it.
[03:33] <mvo> "AutomaticUpgrades"
[03:33] <jbailey> Tx.
[03:33] <mdz> mvo: once the tool is done, we still need the update-manager side to download and use the tool, right?
[03:34] <mvo> mdz: yes, they share a bzr archive right now too
[03:34] <mvo> it is designed to be independant and it can have multiple uis (kde would be possilbe as well)
[03:34] <mdz> mvo: I'm not entirely sure about recommends; I think it would be too intrusive to switch the metapackages to recommends for dapper, and if we don't do that, we don't get any benefit from it
[03:34] <mvo> but the downloading needs to happen somehow
[03:34] <mdz> mvo: thoughts?
[03:35] <Kamion> if we get the code in now we can use it more comfortably in dapper+1 ...
[03:35] <Kamion> (assuming it's sufficiently safe)
[03:35] <mvo> mdz: difficult, I agree that it is intrusive, but it would solve a problem a lot of people complain about
[03:35] <mdz> Kamion: dapper+1 seems likely to use smart
[03:35] <Kamion> I see
[03:35] <mdz> mvo: let's talk about it later
[03:35] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[03:35] <mvo> ok
[03:35] <mdz> ogra: next
[03:36] <ogra> * thin-client-sound: no work done this week, spec reviewed minor changes, needs working X on thin client for more realworld tests.
[03:36] <ogra> * thin-client-local-devices: spec still in drafting. trying to get hold of sbalneav to make up a meeting with mdz.
[03:36] <ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: was waiting for the new initramfs/udev/kernel architecture for modlue blacklist testing, spec approved.
[03:36] <ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: finally below a minute http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051208-1.png , spec reviewed, minor changes.
[03:36] <ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no work this week , still needs images.
[03:36] <ogra> * general work: Xorg autodetection on thin clients: bug #20563 filed working with daniels on it (gdb session outstanding). requested ldm changes done locally, not uploaded yet, multiarch changes pending review. xscreensaver hack split (#3044) done locally. gnome-screensaver main inclusion report pending review, main inclusion planned before flight2. mknbi/etherboot problem: no work done yet. cdrom installable per today, ready for flight 2, waiting
[03:36] <ogra>  for livefs to be build. hwdb-client bzr archive is up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/hwdb-client/. edubuntu-artwork postinst changes started locally. grabbed some orphaned merges. held edubuntu workshop and talk at "essener linuxtage".
[03:36] <ogra> * next weeks goals: major target is to get X up again on the thin clients, test mdz's suggestions for thin client sound, flight2 testing, ask sabdfl for his proposed space images for gnome-screensaver-default-image, upload new edubuntu-artwork, more hwdb-client work. inspect X autodetection on thin clients for possible speedups per mdz suggestion.
[03:36] <mdz> ogra: let me know via email if there are specs ready for another review
[03:36] <ogra> mdz, will do the requested changes tomorrow
[03:37] <ogra> (and mail you )
[03:37] <mdz> ogra: likewise for ldm (I merged multiarch btw)
[03:37] <ogra> yay
[03:37] <ogra> ldm is trivial
[03:37] <ogra> just not tested yet
[03:37] <mdz> ogra: what do you have planned for hwdb-client?
[03:38] <ogra> code cleanup and bugfixes ...
[03:38] <mdz> ok
[03:38] <mdz> ogra: thanks
[03:38] <mdz> pitti: next
[03:38] <ogra> as per dapper policy, only polish
[03:38] <pitti> language-pack-vs-support: DONE: spec completely implemented, thanks to mvo and Kamion
[03:38] <pitti> langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: applied zyga's gnome-desktop and glib2.0 patches, changed cdbs to make the necessary changes to the .desktop files, did some performance tests, updated spec; PLAN: changed spec was approved now, upload everything today, track package rebuild status
[03:38] <pitti> automatic-printer-conf: DONE: started discussion with upstram; BLOCK: we need to find a sensible way of checking whether a given hal printer UDI is already configured in cups
[03:38] <pitti> gstreamer-audio-backend: BLOCK: gstreamer 0.10 for creating the alsadmixsink
[03:38] <pitti> reducing-duplication: DONE: readline4 and ucs-snmp made it to universe, infinity tested mysql 5.0; PLAN: convert all packages to use only 5.0's client libs, push 4.0 and 4.1 to universe
[03:38] <pitti> merges: all DONE except for cdrecord (upstream version regression)
[03:38] <pitti> rosetta-firefox-support, pmount-uber-alles, firewall, automated-problem-reports: no change since last week
[03:39] <doko_> pitti: locales get's back a copy of the i18n data, so we don't need to change the packages relying on it for testsuites?
[03:40] <pitti> doko_: no, not to locales itself; we didn't come to a conclusion in this discussion, and I further thought about it
[03:40] <pitti> let's discuss this in #u-d today again
[03:40] <mdz> ok
[03:40] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[03:40] <mdz> seb128: next
[03:40] <pitti> (I don't think it makes sense to put the locales into an -all package at all)
[03:40] <seb128> faster-gnome-startup: implemented (new fontconfig with mmap cache mentionned as an option is still beeing worked upstream so probably not for dapper, GTK icon cache specification has issues will be sorted for Debian but probably not for dapper neither, others points are done and work correctly)
[03:40] <seb128> hide-admin-tools-to-users: gnome-menus code changes done, waiting on mvo to update the desktop files on his packages, out of the implemented/working fine
[03:40] <seb128> menu-revisited: implemented (may ajust some stuff according to users comments though)
[03:40] <seb128> rhythmbox-ipod: I got an ipod this week
[03:40] <seb128> video-playback: upstream 0.10 tarballs are available. They splitted the plugins to 4 source packages (main, good, bad, ugly), so most of the packaging (the binary split, etc) has to be reworked (the Debian maintainer has not really started on that yet). I'm working on that for 2 days, gst-plugins0.10/gst-plugins-base0.10 almost ready to upload. I've discussed the changes with lool (Debian maintainer) and send him some patches/pointed the new
[03:40] <doko_> pitti: anything else than locales looks insane, ok, tomorrow ...
[03:40] <seb128>  package and I'm waiting on his comments to be sure we pick the same split before uploading. He said he'll work on merging that this week so I'll probably upload those packages monday
[03:40] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: there a first patch from lllmanulll (he who worked on the GnomePanel google bounty is working on that) for the session dialog changes which is beeing discussed on the ubuntu-desktop list
[03:40] <seb128> .
[03:40] <seb128> next week: keep packaging gst0.10, GNOME 2.13.3, dapper-desktop-plan
[03:41] <mdz> seb128: I haven't noticed much of a speedup in GNOME startup; what happened to "so fast we don't need a splash"? ;-)
[03:41] <seb128> euuuh :p
[03:41] <Riddell> seb128: is gst0.10 likely to break amarok, kaffeine etc?
[03:41] <pitti> btw, I talked to lool, he wanted to start with gst 0.10 now
[03:41] <mdz> seb128: were you able to measure before and after the improvements and see what the gain was?
[03:42] <seb128> I've not done benchmark but gconf is much faster when browser with gconf-editor by example
[03:42] <seb128> s/browser/browsed/
[03:42] <pitti> my startup time reduced from 40 to 35 seconds, or so
[03:42] <pitti> (gdm login to final desktop)
[03:42] <mdz> pitti: 35 seconds to login?
[03:42] <mdz> ah
[03:42] <ogra> pitti, how do you measure ?
[03:42] <ogra> stopwatch ?
[03:43] <pitti> ogra: yes
[03:43] <ogra> k
[03:43] <seb128> pitti: what about lool/gst0.10?
[03:43] <pitti> on a clean profile, it's still 27 seconds
[03:43] <ogra> will do the same here with my slow disk
[03:43] <mdz> seb128: so the desktop files (other than mvo's) have been updated now, and hide-admin should be working for those?
[03:43] <seb128> mdz: correct
[03:43] <pitti> seb128: I discussed the dmix changes with him mainly, but he seems to be eager to start with 0.10 now, too
[03:43] <mdz> great
[03:43] <mvo> mdz, seb128: I'll do my stuff tomorrow
[03:43] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[03:43] <mdz> Riddell: next
[03:43] <Riddell> This week: some days at desktop architects meeting, Portland.  Been doing merges and seed merges, revus, main inclusion requests and KDE security updates.
[03:43] <Riddell> Next week: finish off merges, simplify-kubuntu
[03:44] <doko_> Riddell: xine update to 1.1?
[03:44] <Kamion> Riddell: how far is kubuntu-desktop from being installable? I haven't dug into its problems
[03:44] <Keybuk> Riddell: you still have by far the largest number of outstanding merges of anyone :-/
[03:44] <mdz> BenC: btw, if you're certain we don't want the new kernel-package, please close the bug WONTFIX
[03:44] <Riddell> Kamion: mostly there now, pykde is the biggest issue
[03:44] <Riddell> doko_: I see it on my merges, so I'll do it tomorrow
[03:45] <Riddell> Keybuk: yeah, KDE 3.5 and the portland meeting got me behind, I hope to have them all done by the end of the weekend
[03:45] <seb128> pitti: I've sent my gstreamer0.10 patch to lool 2 days for comment, he said it looks ok and he will merge it this week (he got some real work stuff to do before)
[03:45] <mdz> Riddell,JaneW: we need to review the kubuntu spec situation
[03:46] <janeW> mdz: meeting?
[03:46] <mdz> janeW: yes
[03:46] <janeW> ok
[03:46] <mdz> that's the end of the spreadsheet; did we miss anyone?
[03:46] <seb128> pitti: we will probably agree on the details this week and get that merged to Debian/uploaded to Ubuntu by monday
[03:47] <mdz> I think that's all the status updates; since we have extra time, the floor is open for any discussion topics
[03:47] <pitti> this locales issue maybe?
[03:47] <mdz> only items which are relevant to all or most of the team, please
[03:47] <pitti> hm, ok
[03:47] <Keybuk> merges: I think everyone but Riddell has done all the non-blocked ones ... should we turn mom on again?
[03:47] <infinity> Yes please.
[03:47] <ogra> yay
[03:48] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, but without filing bugs
[03:48] <Keybuk> how would we keep track without the bugs?
[03:48] <infinity> Even if we don't all have time for merge work, I'd like to know that there are outstanding merges to be done.
[03:48] <doko_> mdz: yes, please change this meeting time (3hours earlier or 3hours later)
[03:48] <mdz> Keybuk: can we set a reduced priority on merge bugs by default?
[03:48] <Keybuk> mdz: sure
[03:48] <jbailey> Thinking of bugs, do we know when Malone goes live for main?
[03:48] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, let's do that instead then
[03:48] <fabbione> mdz: but why without filing bugs?
[03:49] <fabbione> or lower priority?
[03:49] <mdz> jbailey: I need to follow up with bradb on that; don't have a status update
[03:49] <jbailey> mdz: Tx
[03:49] <Keybuk> enhancement?
[03:49] <mdz> fabbione: because we're not going to try to track merges on an ongoing basis; it's too much work
[03:49] <Keybuk> or do you mean the Pn bit?
[03:49] <mdz> we'll do another check close to UVF
[03:49] <mdz> Keybuk: I mean Pn
[03:49] <fabbione> mdz: ok...
[03:49] <Keybuk> pick an n
[03:50] <mdz> 3
[03:50] <mdz> just something below the default
[03:50] <mdz> or maybe P5, lowest
[03:51] <ogra> dholbach, whats your feeling about malone for main as probably the person who works most with it currently ?
[03:51] <mdz> doko_: we agreed on these meeting times in Montreal; everyone is inconvenienced only once per month and everyone has some meetings at reasonable times of day
[03:52] <mdz> doko_: if you'd like to propose a change, please evaluate it in the context of everyone's time zone and post to ubuntu-devel for discussion
[03:52] <dholbach> ogra: the mail- and the clickability-situation is what concerns most people, from what i've heard
[03:52] <mdz> any other business?
[03:52] <doko_> mdz: ok
[03:52] <Kamion> what's the soyuz status?
[03:52] <dholbach> ogra: i hope that defaults qa contacts will make that better
[03:52] <seb128> dholbach: default assignment too
[03:52] <mdz> soyuz is coming along pretty well; the publisher output is almost certifiable
[03:52] <jbailey> Just like us? =)
[03:52] <ogra> dholbach, thanks, i only use it to respond to the bugs mostly :)
[03:52] <mdz> they're testing the uploader using all breezy packages
[03:53] <mdz> (source packages only)
[03:53] <mdz> once that's successful, the next test will be replaying all dapper source uploads and actually building them
[03:53] <mdz> once all three of those acceptance tests have passed, we'll do the transition
[03:53] <Kamion> thanks
[03:53] <fabbione> mdz: ETA?
[03:54] <mdz> (archive comparison for existing packages, upload test, upload+build test)
[03:54] <mdz> fabbione: depends on how many problems are found
[03:54] <ajmitch> mdz: will that change anything for us?
[03:54] <mdz> could be as soon as this month if things go well
[03:54] <infinity> ajmitch : In theory, it should be transparent to the average uploader.
[03:54] <infinity> (except that build logs will happen differently)
[03:54] <mdz> ajmitch: ideally no, but in practice I expect there will be noticeable changes ;-)
[03:54] <Kamion> the sync process will probably be different (if not immediately, then soon enough)
[03:54] <mdz> ajmitch: we'll post details in the announcement when we know more
[03:55] <fabbione> mdz: for the sake of security, we will run katie in parallel for sometime?
[03:55] <pitti> from what I have heard, yes
[03:55] <fabbione> like if we need to roll back from one minute to another
[03:56] <mdz> fabbione: yes, security uploads will be handled by katie until the point of being released, when they'll be published through soyuz
[03:56] <pitti> for warty, hoary, breezy-security for now
[03:56] <fabbione> mdz: i meant security for distro not -security ;)
[03:56] <fabbione> like soyuz decides that dapper sucks and trashes everything
[03:56] <infinity> Same thing, mind you.  If katie/wanna-build/buildd is running for *-security, we COULD move dapper back to katie if we had to.
[03:56] <infinity> But hopefully, we won't have to.
[03:57] <infinity> The infrastructure won't get destroyed willy-nilly, just cause.
[03:57] <mdz> fabbione: we won't tear down katie, but I don't expect we'll want to build all of the packages using both soyuz and wanna-build or anything like that
[03:57] <infinity> No, rebuilding would be pointless, but importing binary packages back into katie later, if we had to, isn't rocket science.
[03:57] <fabbione> right
[03:58] <mdz> it might be possible to copy the soyuz uploads (source and binary) to katie
[03:58] <infinity> But here's hoping we don't have to.
[03:58] <mdz> I'll follow up on that with kiko/kinnison
[03:58] <infinity> Teething problems are expected, complete meltdown of soyuz isn't.
[03:58] <mdz> ok, we're out of time
[03:58] <mdz> thanks, everyone, especially you night-owls ;-)
[03:59] <seb128> thanks mdz
[03:59] <ogra> hehe
[03:59] <jbailey> Thanks, Matt!
[03:59] <ogra> thanks mdz
[03:59] <BenC> good night everyone!
[03:59] <doko_> good night then :-)
[03:59] <dholbach> see you later :)
[03:59] <pitti> cu later
[03:59] <janeW> night
[03:59] <seb128> see you :)
[03:59] <fabbione> later guys
[03:59] <fabbione> mdz: mind if i shift my hours a bit around today?
[03:59] <mdz> fabbione: no
[04:00] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[04:00] <fabbione> JaneW?
[04:00] <ogra> night janeW
[04:00] <fabbione> is that ok with you too?
[04:00] <janeW> fabbione: knock yourself out ;)
[04:00] <jbailey> fabbione: Are you staritng now just to confuse us?
[04:00] <jbailey> =)
[04:00] <fabbione> jbailey: yeah :)
[04:00] <fabbione> Janew: i am too awake
[04:01] <jbailey> fabbione: And the whole distro team gets an extra two hours of sleep because Fabio showed up. =)
[04:01] <janeW> fabbione: enjoy
[04:01] <fabbione> ahahah
[04:01] <janeW> bye
[04:01] <jbailey> fabbione: Care to debug register allocation in klibc with me on ppc? =)
[04:01] <jbailey> fabbione: I have a bug that doesn't occur when I strace it or run it through gdb.
[04:02] <fabbione> jbailey: noi don't :)
[04:03] <jbailey> fabbione: Bah. =)
[04:04] <jbailey> fabbione: I'm trying to prove that it's ak ernel bug atm. =)
[04:04] <fabbione> ehhe
[07:45] <mako> asw: hey
[09:43] <shawarma> When's the next techboard meeting?
[09:44] <YukiIkyuta|dinne> 0800 hours after the third midnight in the Swedish plains of Edgar.
[09:45] <shawarma> ...
[09:45] <shawarma> Great. Could you put that into the calendar on the fridge?
[09:46] <YukiIkyuta|dinne> Sure.