[12:00] <will> nope, but i will try and mount it now
[12:00] <ynef> will: since you've got so much to do as root, you might as well spawn a root shell... "sudo /bin/bash" ;)
[12:01] <ynef> will: then all commands typed in that shell will be executed with root privileges.
[12:01] <akra> I'm a fan of "sudo su -" myself :)
[12:01] <clee> meh, too many characters
[12:01] <clee> sudo -s
[12:02] <akra> does sudo -s set the environment up too ?
[12:03] <Mitario> hmm, this is odd
[12:03] <Mitario> I'm trying to compile Marlin
[12:03] <Mitario> I have cpp installed
[12:03] <Mitario> but I still get this error:
[12:03] <Mitario> checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... /lib/cpp
[12:03] <Mitario> configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
[12:03] <tseng> akra: sudo keeps the user enviroment
[12:03] <clee> akra: not quite
[12:03] <tseng> in most cases
[12:03] <LinuxJones> Mitario, apt-get install build-essentials
[12:03] <will> oh dear argument!
[12:04] <akra> right
[12:04] <Mitario> LinuxJones, aha! thank you
[12:04] <LinuxJones> Mitario, sure someone had the problem yesterday :D
[12:04] <Mitario> :)
[12:05] <will> ynef its saying now that /mnt/d does not exist
[12:05] <ynef> will: but you've created that directory, right?
[12:05] <subterrific> ynef: security and because most people don't need to compile
[12:06] <LinuxJones> will mkdir /mnt/d as root user
[12:06] <LinuxJones> will then try again
[12:06] <will> ah maybe i was not root when i made it
[12:06] <ynef> subterrific: i just feel naked without a compiler... :)
[12:07] <subterrific> have you tried putting clothes on?
[12:07] <will> YEAH!
[12:07] <will> it works now my knowledge is almost unlimited!
[12:07] <will> thanks guys!
[12:07] <ynef> subterrific: don't need to -- i installed build-essentials instead ;)
[12:07] <LinuxJones> will, lol
[12:08] <ynef> will: cool :)
[12:08] <will> but this totem movie player crashed after 1 sec of playing a file!
[12:09] <ynef> will: is the file on the windows partition?
[12:09] <ynef> will: does it work if you first copy it over to your home directory?
[12:09] <ynef> will: (just trying to rule things out here)
[12:10] <will> good idea
[12:12] <ynef> will: when i tried to access a pdf i had on a samba share, xpfd didn't do anything -- didn't show a window at all. but when i copied it to a local location, it worked without a hitch. your situation should be different, since it's on the physically connected disc and all, but you never know...
[12:14] <will> didnt work got error: Internal GStreamer error: pad problem.  File a bug.
[12:14] <ynef> will: well that sucks... :( don't know the solution to that, i'm afraid
[12:15] <joem> will, use totem-xine
[12:15] <will> whats that?
[12:15] <joem> totem with a xine backend
[12:15] <sam0r2> ok, third time of re installing... and gnome still wont load
[12:15] <sam0r2> anyone know what the problem could be?
[12:16] <ynef> sam0r2: not without a more detailed description :(
[12:17] <sam0r2> well
[12:17] <sam0r2> the logs say somthing about font render for "xxxx" already registered at priority 0
[12:18] <sam0r2> i can log in, and failsafe works fine
[12:18] <sam0r2> but when i log in using gnome, it sits at the loading screen, doing shit all
[12:19] <sam0r2> ah
[12:19] <sam0r2> the last error in the log is 'Could not init font path element unit/:7100, removing from list!'
[12:20] <Averell> hiya.
[12:20] <Averell> i have a question: how do you finance this free CD sending?
[12:21] <sam0r2> whoops..
[12:21] <akra> lol
[12:21] <sam0r2> the sponsor isnt it?
[12:21] <Averell> as well as bounties, etc.
[12:21] <ynef> sam0r2: if you remove everything related to fonts from the XF86Config file, it will fall back on compiled in defaults. comment them rather than removing them, of course
[12:21] <sam0r2> hmm
[12:22] <Se7h> :D
[12:22] <Se7h> ubuntu reinstalled
[12:22] <Se7h> :)
[12:23] <Averell> the sponsor? who's it?
[12:24] <LinuxJones> Averell, Canonical I beilive
[12:24] <LinuxJones> err believe
[12:24] <Se7h> ok now
[12:24] <Se7h> i need to install nvidia drivers for this
[12:24] <Se7h> where r they?
[12:25] <LinuxJones> Se7h, >> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions see # 3
[12:25] <Averell> ah. cool. thanks LinuxJones.
[12:25] <Se7h> thanks
[12:25] <LinuxJones> Averell, lots of good stuff in that FAQ :)
[12:27] <ynef> will: still having problems with the video player?
[12:28] <ynef> will: if so, you should install mplayer -- the best media player for linux that i know of. instructions that are incredibly simple to follow are here: http://www.princessleia.com/MPlayer2.html
[12:28] <sam0r2> hmm ynef: the font thing didnt seem to work
[12:29] <sam0r2> but i think its doing somthing
[12:29] <MyKq3> what package do i need to activate my webcam?
[12:29] <sam0r2> oh no its not, its just fan vibrations
[12:29] <tseng> MyKq3: that greatly depends on your webcam, google around for the model + linux
[12:31] <ynef> sam0r2: that's too bad... what does your /var/log/XFree86.0.log say?
[12:31] <MyKq3> i have but it gave me nothingy ralevant .... i guess i need to try hearder
[12:31] <MyKq3> thanks
[12:32] <sam0r2> Warning: font renderer for ".pcf" already registered at priority 0
[12:32] <sam0r2> and tehres a few more lines of that but different extentions
[12:33] <rovragge> hello. Can I mix ubuntu and regular debian unstable packages easily?
[12:33] <rovragge> let's say just have xfree86 packages from ubuntu and nothing else
[12:33] <ynef> rovragge: i just did that a second ago, so yeah :)
[12:33] <will> Ynef: thanks a lot, im off now goodnight!
[12:33] <rovragge> ynef: apt sources line ?
[12:33] <ynef> will: good night
[12:34] <ynef> rovragge: the same as you'd use in debian
[12:34] <rovragge> ynef: i'm running debian/unstable, which url for ubuntu packages?
[12:36] <ynef> rovragge: aha. :) well, then I don't know if it's mixable... i know you can theoretically switch over to ubuntu completely, but i don't know for just a few packages
[12:37] <rovragge> apt-get install -t warty foo ?
[12:39] <Se7h> ok
[12:39] <Se7h> nvidia done
[12:39] <Se7h> now...
[12:39] <rovragge> or do I have to fiddle with /etc/apt/preferences and do Pin:
[12:39] <Se7h> how can i add some resolutions..
[12:39] <LukasK> Whew, hi all. Kudos to the makers of ubuntu, I'm really impressed with what you did with Debian.
[12:39] <LukasK> Great work.
[12:40] <rovragge> Se7h: http://delenn.tky.hut.fi/amlc/
[12:40] <rovragge> Se7h: or did you mean standard resolutions?
[12:40] <rovragge> Se7h: in Subsection "Display" under Modes
[12:41] <rovragge> Se7h: Modes       "1600x1200" "800x600" "640x480"
[12:41] <tseng> ......
[12:41] <tseng> jesus dude.
[12:41] <Se7h> o.0
[12:41] <Se7h> wrong field
[12:41] <Se7h> sorry about that
[12:42] <tseng> thanks.
[12:42] <Se7h> there
[12:42] <Se7h> sorry once again
[12:42] <Se7h> brb
[12:42] <LukasK> The only thing I can't yet solve on my own: ubuntu ships postfix, I somehow got used to exim, and know I don't know how to tell postfix to to smtp-auth to my isp's-mailserver.
[12:42] <LukasK> Can somebody help me with that?
[12:44] <sam0r2> man exim
[12:44] <sam0r2> ;)
[12:44] <tseng> LukasK: postfix has tons of docs and howtos online
[12:44] <Sam0r> oops meant man postfix
[12:45] <LukasK> hm, ok.
[12:46] <LukasK> i think i got the wrong howto for that ... it hat things in main.cf that i didn't see in my local main.cf :)
[12:46] <LukasK> would be cool if one could configure that sort of thing with debconf
[12:53] <LukasK> ok, documentation is good. i thought, hey, everything was so easy, why should smtp-auth be as hard as always :)
[12:54] <tardmac> anyone here upgrade from debian testing to ubuntu?
[12:55] <Se7h> erg
[12:55] <Se7h> i have the resolutions there
[12:56] <Se7h> but they wont appear at gnome change resolution config
[12:57] <Se7h> i think its related to HS or VS
[12:57] <Se7h> cant rememeber
[12:58] <rovragge> xrandr lists available resolutions
[12:58] <Se7h> yeah
[12:58] <Se7h> list the ones possible on the config that u provided to xfree
[12:59] <Sam0r> how do i edit my network config? atm im using a dhcp supplied ip, but i want to make it static
[12:59] <Se7h> but i know i can make my monitor work at 1152
[12:59] <rovragge> generate own modes using amlc
[12:59] <HcE> Sam0r: vim /etc/network/interfaces ?
[12:59] <Sam0r> got it
[01:00] <Sam0r> whats the format?
[01:00] <rovragge> man interfaces
[01:00] <HcE> Sam0r: change dhcp => static, add address, hostmask, gateway, broadcast
[01:09] <Chriffer> why would you suggest vim to someone?
[01:14] <HcE> hmmm
[01:15] <HcE> I was thinking of that afterwards
[01:15] <HcE> just typed what I usually type
[01:15] <HcE> but hopefully he just took it for vim = your favorite editor
[01:17] <WW> Sam0r (and others): It looks like you could also use Computer -> System Configuration -> Networking
[01:19] <HcE> but for new users to Linux the GUI frontend is important :)
[01:19] <rovragge> Chriffer: http://vim.sourceforge.net/others.php
[01:25] <flopper> hi all :)
[01:25] <LinuxJones> flopper, hi
[01:26] <LinuxJones> It is so quite in here tonight :(
[01:26] <flopper> :\
[01:27] <HcE> LinuxJones: If you have little to do, you could allways have a look at my SSL application which have some problems ;)
[01:28] <Sam0r> what runlevel doesnt have x started?
[01:28] <HcE> Sam0r: 1
[01:28] <Sam0r> isnt that single user though?
[01:28] <HcE> Sam0r: look in /etc/inittab
[01:28] <LinuxJones> HcE, I am not "THAT" bored :D
[01:28] <Sam0r> i am
[01:28] <Sam0r> 1 says single user
[01:29] <HcE> 1 = single user yes
[01:29] <HcE> try 2?
[01:29] <Sam0r> 2 is default with x :|
[01:29] <HcE> should say in inittab though
[01:29] <Sam0r> it does
[01:29] <Sam0r> but its not very helpful
[01:29] <HcE> take a peek in /etc/rcx.d/ ?
[01:29] <HcE> where x = {1,2,3,4,5,6}
[01:30] <dickmorrell[away> right
[01:30] <dickmorrell> apparently
[01:30] <dickmorrell> Ubuntu is not an effective form of contraception
[01:30] <LinuxJones> flopper, your refresh rate  is too low ??
[01:30] <dickmorrell> and I am being told to get off this workstation
[01:31] <flopper> LinuxJones, good question ;) I was just checking it.. effectively is quite low: 64/60!
[01:31] <flopper> LinuxJones, how can change it?
[01:32] <LinuxJones> flopper, my crappy monitor can only do 60 hz @ 1280x960
[01:33] <Sam0r> omfg
[01:33] <Sam0r> its gdm thats mucking up
[01:33] <LinuxJones> flopper, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[01:33] <flopper> LinuxJones, I test this monitor with another pc and it did 1280x1024 without any problem.. perahps it's a videocard problem?
[01:33] <LinuxJones> flopper, what video driver are you using ?
[01:33] <flopper> LinuxJones, thanks.. just trying
[01:34] <flopper> r128
[01:49] <NewComer> is it true that the x86 port of ubuntu is compiled for i686 and not for i386 as the name of isos imply?
[01:50] <jh|work> i am assuming so, but i am afraid to ask why you are asking
[01:51] <jdub> NewComer: it uses 486 instructions, tuned for p4
[01:51] <NewComer> u know, just hate the idea of i386 compiled distro
[01:52] <NewComer> so it should be kinda fast
[01:52] <NewComer> right?
[01:52] <jh|work> silly reason, but ok.
[01:55] <LinuxJones> NewComer, what are you using your computer for, general destop stuff ?
[01:56] <NewComer> LinuxJones: yeah
[01:56] <LinuxJones> NewComer, what kind of processor/ram do you have ?
[01:56] <NewComer> 1Ghz/192MB
[01:57] <NewComer> its not that i'm a Gentoo freak (never tried Gentoo), but I would prefer an optimized distro
[01:57] <Sam0r> NewComer: who wouldnt..
[01:58] <NewComer> Sam0r: some just don't care
[01:58] <LinuxJones> NewComer, that's not a bad system, you will not notice any difference for desltop stuff.
[01:58] <Se7h> lol
[01:58] <Se7h> i got it screwd up
[01:58] <bitserf> newcomer: you might be surprised at the performance of Gentoo compared to Ubuntu...its not much of a delta, to be honest
[01:58] <Sam0r> its still a preview release, so why would they bother making specific builds etc when the ones theyve made _work_
[01:58] <Se7h> what r the editors from command line?
[01:58] <bitserf> newcomer: the premise of gentoo is its flexibility more than the perf.
[01:59] <Sam0r> Se7h: pico or nano
[01:59] <Se7h> k
[01:59] <Se7h> ty
[01:59] <Se7h> New channel peak: 168 users
[01:59] <q2_> hey all
[01:59] <NewComer> Sam0r: yeah, maybe in the future people would like different builts.
[02:00] <Sam0r> i think its fine how it is, if you want a specific build, download the source code, compile it for us, and host it somewhere...
[02:00] <Sam0r> thats how it works.
[02:00] <Sam0r> you cant just walk up to a dev and say 'i want this. now.'
[02:00] <Sam0r> these guys are doing some great work, and theyre not even getting paid, so leave them alone
[02:00] <NewComer> Sam0r: ofcourse not, that's why I didn't :)
[02:01] <Sam0r> good
[02:01] <Se7h> New channel peak: 169 users
[02:01] <Se7h> New channel peak: 170 users
[02:01] <Sam0r> http://www.trippie.co.uk
[02:01] <Sam0r> does that work?
[02:02] <LinuxJones> Se7h, there were 193 users yesterday, I waited for an hour to crack 200 but it didn't happen :D
[02:03] <Sam0r> christ does anyone know what runlevel is the shell and not X11?
[02:04] <Kosai> 1.
[02:04] <bitserf> newcomer: you know about apt-get source
[02:04] <Kosai> (To Sam0r.)
[02:04] <Sam0r> hmm
[02:05] <LinuxJones> Sam0r, you can disable X from starting in any runlevel
[02:05] <Sam0r> yeah i know
[02:05] <Sam0r> i just wanted to do it an easier way
[02:05] <Sam0r> i'm used to using slackware
[02:05] <LinuxJones> Sam0r, what way are you doing it now ?
[02:05] <Sam0r> setting it up as a webserver
[02:06] <Sam0r> runlevel 1 is single user mode.
[02:07] <LinuxJones> Sam0r, rl 1 is no good as a webserver
[02:07] <Sam0r> yeah i know!
[02:07] <NewComer> bitserf: yeah
[02:07] <zenwhen> Linux stale.licorice 2.4.3-handcuffing5 #11 SMP Sat May 10:38:55 PST 2004 i586 Intel(r) Pentium(r) 4 processor 5.70GHz GNU/Linux
[02:08] <LinuxJones> Sam0r, update-rc.d -f gdm remove
[02:08] <Sam0r> update-rc.c -f gdm remove
[02:08] <Sam0r> shit ffs
[02:08] <LinuxJones> lol
[02:09] <Sam0r> command not found
[02:09] <Sam0r> brb need a piss
[02:09] <LinuxJones> that's nice
[02:09] <Sam0r> feels good too :)
[02:10] <flopper> LinuxJones, just done some tsts. The screen vibrate at 1024x768 @ 75Hz too :(
[02:10] <LinuxJones> flopper, cool :D
[02:11] <flopper> LinuxJones, grrr! :))))
[02:11] <LinuxJones> flopper, did you edit your XF86Config-4 file by hand ?
[02:12] <flopper> LinuxJones, just change resolution using ubunt tool
[02:13] <flopper> I'm waiting some packages upgrade to restart xfree
[02:13] <LinuxJones> flopper, ahh
[02:15] <LinuxJones> yikes I am only downloading @ 50 kb/s I usually can hit 575 from the repository :(
[02:15] <flopper> LinuxJones, if I well remember this video card had the same problem under win, I think it's time to trash it ;)
[02:16] <LinuxJones> flopper, ya it is VERY old time to break out the piggy bank :P
[02:16] <Sam0r> get a geforce 4 mx 440 from ebuyer or somthing
[02:16] <Sam0r> bout 30 quid afaik
[02:17] <LinuxJones> Sam0r, is a quid the same as a Euro ?
[02:17] <flopper> hehehe
[02:17] <Sam0r> lol
[02:17] <Sam0r> not that i know of
[02:18] <NewComer> man, low download rate from bittorrent
[02:18] <flopper> but it's incredible that a 32MB video card has proble at 1280x1024.. :\
[02:18] <Sam0r> what card was it?
[02:18] <subterrific> geforce4 440mx is a pretty crappy card
[02:18] <LinuxJones> Dude I am from Canada, I only have heard of a quid on Coronation Street :P
[02:18] <flopper> ati xpert 2000 pro
[02:18] <Sam0r> a what?
[02:19] <Se7h> im stuk
[02:19] <Pakal> hi, GDM does not start automatically at start up
[02:19] <subterrific> the ti4200 card would be better if you can find one
[02:19] <Se7h> i can't find a way to force my monitor to display in 1152
[02:19] <Sam0r> subterrific: i have that card
[02:19] <Pakal> Se7h: "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86"
[02:19] <LinuxJones> Pakal, does it display any errors on your screen ?
[02:20] <Se7h> Pakal i've already done that
[02:20] <Sam0r> hostname Server1.trippie.co.uk
[02:20] <Sam0r> oh ffs wrong keyboard again
[02:21] <Pakal> say: "gdm starting" even an OK message appear
[02:21] <Pakal> but does not start
[02:21] <LinuxJones> Pakal, when did you install ?
[02:22] <Pakal> I make a symlink /etc/init.d/gdm -> /etc/rc3/@S99gdm
[02:22] <Pakal> but don't fixed
[02:22] <Pakal> LinuxJones: two days ago
[02:23] <subterrific> yay, found a fun way to bring oracle to its knees. run 200,000 queries plus a full database export at the same time, while also dropping a few tables
[02:23] <subterrific>  load average: 21.96, 21.38, 21.83
[02:23] <WW> subterrific: Jeez, and I was just about to try that...
[02:23] <LinuxJones> Pakal, there were some problems with Gnome starting the last few days, do an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[02:24] <Pakal> "apt-get -f -y dist-upgrade" is correct?
[02:24] <q2> HOW DO I USE .DEBS IN GNOME?????
[02:24] <WW> q2: You're over here, too?
[02:25] <LinuxJones> Pakal, you have to update first to get new package lsit
[02:25] <Pakal> ok
[02:25] <LinuxJones> q2, dpkg -i (in console) to install a .deb package
[02:25] <q2> WW, yes
[02:25] <jayeola_afk> hi guys
[02:25] <q2> WW, im using Ubuntu
[02:25] <LinuxJones> jayeola_afk, hi
[02:26] <subterrific> WW: i'm sure a better machine could handle it, but this is just a 3ghz P4 w/ 2gigs of memory
[02:26] <Sam0r> holy shit elinks is fast
[02:26] <q2> LinuxJones: So like: dpkg -i /home/q2/thedebiwant?
[02:26] <WW> subterrific: Ah, that explains it.
[02:26] <LinuxJones> q2, ya
[02:26] <q2> kk
[02:27] <WW> q2: What .deb are  you installing?
[02:27] <q2> a few desktop environments
[02:27] <q2> Enlightenment, Afterstep
[02:27] <q2> window maker
[02:28] <WW> q2: Not sure about afterstep, but enlightenment is in ubuntu universe.  You can use apt-get to install it.
[02:28] <q2> aaah
[02:28] <q2> well it did not work when i apt-getted
[02:28] <Sam0r> whats this univerce thing
[02:28] <LinuxJones> q2, they are probably in universe
[02:29] <Sam0r> universe*
[02:29] <Liz> is it a good idea to update from the ubuntu archives?
[02:29] <Pakal> Liz: yes
[02:29] <LinuxJones> Liz, yes
[02:30] <dommi> dare I chime in, Liz: yes
[02:30] <Liz> gnome.control.panel didnt update well, it crashed on me
[02:30] <Pakal> what significant package is on Debina and not in ubuntu?
[02:30] <q2> it did not intsall
[02:30] <Liz> if one doesnt upgrade well, wil lthe others that got apt-getted?
[02:30] <dommi> Pakal, madwifi?
[02:30] <q2> AND I HATE GNOME!
[02:30] <Liz> i love gnome :D
[02:30] <jayeola_afk> ?
[02:31] <Pakal> q2: ubuntu is not for you
[02:31] <Zomb> q2: yea, Gnome sucks. Months/years behind KDE, always.
[02:31] <q2> i want to use fluxbox
[02:31] <Zomb> not that I would use any of them ;)
[02:31] <q2> can i use that with Ubuntu?
[02:32] <dommi> ubuntu needs an ad campaign
[02:32] <subterrific> did anyone have the latest hal break on install?
[02:32] <dommi> s/apple/ubuntu # the true *nix
[02:33] <q2> Im having dependency problems
[02:33] <q2> is there a list of packages that work with Ubuntu?
[02:33] <dommi> better question, is there a ubuntu repository web site
[02:33] <dommi> like packages.debian.org
[02:33] <subterrific> uhm, just use synaptic
[02:33] <Pakal> Im usign Windowaker, I proof fluxbox, XFCE, fvwm, but always return to WindowMaker
[02:33] <Se7h> does anyone knows whats the Hsync that aneblas 1152 resolution ?
[02:33] <smo> last I heard it's planned, but not yet
[02:34] <smo> (a packages.debian.org equiv, that is)
[02:34] <jayeola_afk> ok, i've set a box's resolution to "millions of colours" no i've got a black screen. what do i do?
[02:34] <q2> windowmaker wont install for me
[02:34] <q2> none will
[02:34] <LinuxJones> q2, you can try adding a Debian repository for an app that you need, just don't go crazy downloading stuff from it.
[02:34] <jayeola_afk> -now-
[02:34] <subterrific> it's a better idea to not add debian repositories and just use ubuntu's universe
[02:34] <q2> LinuxJones, ???
[02:35] <dommi> jayeola_afk, edit /etc/X11/XF85Config to default display of 16 bit instead of 24 bit
[02:35] <jayeola_afk> i can't see anything at all :(
[02:35] <q2> i really do not like Gnome
[02:35] <dommi> how are you ircing?
[02:36] <LinuxJones> q2, you caqn add a Debian unstable repository to your /etc/apt/sources.lst file, you might however beak something if you go crasy downloading core stuff
[02:36] <jayeola_afk> dommi: it's another box
[02:36] <dommi> ok
[02:36] <q2> never mind then
[02:36] <subterrific> LinuxJones: or just enable universe and get the same stuff...
[02:36] <WW> I could swear I added "How do add universe?" to the wiki faq...
[02:36] <LinuxJones> god my typing is horrible :(
[02:36] <subterrific> WW: seriously.
[02:36] <jayeola_afk> just installed my distro on it as well, will i have to re-install?
[02:36] <q2> i really just want a low resource environment that works with ubuntu
[02:36] <subterrific> so much misinformation going around :(
[02:36] <Pakal> god, my english es horrible :(
[02:37] <Pakal> q2: try fvwm
[02:37] <dommi> isnt the entry commented out in /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:37] <dommi> for universe that is
[02:37] <q2> what is that like
[02:37] <q2> is it like icewm?
[02:37] <subterrific> q2: why do you want a low resource environment?
[02:37] <LinuxJones> subterrific, I thought that the Ubuntu and Debian trees were not inter-changeable ?
[02:37] <cokehabit> joem: you're quiet tonight
[02:37] <q2> because i have a slow linux box
[02:38] <joem> sorry
[02:38] <joem> cokehabit, you install it yet?
[02:38] <Pakal> q2: http://fvwm.org/screenshots/desktops/
[02:38] <subterrific> LinuxJones: they aren't, which is why unbuntu has universe. so you don't have to use debian's repositories
[02:38] <cokehabit> no joem
[02:38] <jayeola_afk> dommi: any ideas? i can't see anything....
[02:38] <subterrific> LinuxJones: go read the FAQ
[02:38] <dommi> jayeola_afk, ok
[02:38] <cokehabit> i haven't downloaded it yet
[02:38] <dommi> does your box boot?
[02:38] <cokehabit> Linux leviathon 2.6.8-gentoo-r3 #1 Wed Sep 22 01:10:19 GMT 2004 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[02:38] <dommi> and do you get the black screen when it loads x?
[02:38] <cokehabit> see
[02:39] <jayeola_afk> yeah, dommi
[02:39] <q2> pakal, AWESOME!
[02:39] <dommi> can you control alt function key to get to a text login?
[02:40] <cokehabit> cprov_: ahhhh a fellow englander
[02:40] <jayeola_afk> dommi: !!!!!! woooooot
[02:40] <jayeola_afk> hehe
[02:40] <jayeola_afk> engineer, eh? what kind?
[02:41] <q2> Pakal: SHould i download a .DEB package? or does RPM work? or waht should i do?
[02:41] <dommi> rpms dont generally work on deb
[02:41] <dommi> too many funkified things going on when you try to install them
[02:41] <subterrific> q2: for the third time, run synaptic
[02:41] <q2> subterrific, wtf is synaptic?
[02:41] <dommi> cokehabit, whats the word?
[02:42] <subterrific> q2: package management gui so you can browse packages by catagory
[02:42] <dommi> http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html
[02:42] <dommi> in case you were wondering
[02:42] <cokehabit> dommi: erm...
[02:42] <dommi> must be an american thing
[02:43] <subterrific> q2: you can also enable the universe respositories so you will see things like fluxbox
[02:43] <q2> im a very lazy linux user
[02:43] <cokehabit> dommi: t-bird, cool
[02:43] <cokehabit> how long has ubnutu been around then?
[02:43] <WW> q2: Then you want Computer -> System Configuration -> Synaptic Package Manager  :)
[02:44] <dommi> heh, isnt there an argument goin on about whether kde is available from the ubuntu repository?
[02:44] <dommi> apt-cache search kde shows it is available
[02:44] <dommi> as is kdm
[02:45] <cokehabit> dommi: is ubnutu source or binary?
[02:45] <Kosai> dommi: apt-get install kde worked fine for me.
[02:45] <dommi> binary?
[02:45] <joem> kde packages are available from universe
[02:46] <kremlyn> Does ubuntu change anything at all about Debian, other than the versions/locations of packages?
[02:46] <kremlyn> Anything learned on one can be applied to the other?
[02:46] <cokehabit> joem: what are the benefits of ubuntu
[02:46] <tseng> kremlyn: the basic workings are almost identical
[02:46] <q2> whats the flood channel?
[02:46] <cokehabit> what will i get from it that i dont from gentoo
[02:46] <tseng> kremlyn: as far as individual packages alot of things are patched in ubuntu for bug fixing action
[02:46] <kremlyn> tseng: i.e. kernel compilation, network configuration, locations of configuration files..
[02:46] <cokehabit> #flood
[02:47] <Kamion> cokehabit: preview release was 15th September
[02:47] <tseng> kremlyn: those all work the same
[02:47] <joem> cokehabit, easy to set up, easy to use, easy package management, frequent updates/6month release cycle, good maintainers
[02:47] <kremlyn> tseng: So what's different?
[02:47] <joem> cokehabit, things not compiled with a broken toolchain
[02:47] <joem> and that work
[02:47] <dommi> http://pastebin.com/
[02:47] <tseng> kremlyn: different from debian?
[02:47] <kremlyn> tseng: Yeah :-)
[02:47] <cokehabit> joem: you're not still going on about gcc are we
[02:47] <tseng> kremlyn: smaller set of "supported" packages, less flame wars, shorter release cycles
[02:48] <cokehabit> tseng: i recognise than name from somewhere
[02:48] <tseng> cokehabit: im a popular guy.
[02:48] <joem> tseng is known all over as the man
[02:48] <q2> subterrific, PM me so i can get this working easier
[02:48] <kremlyn> tseng: Awesome.. :-) But I mean technically.  No changes to apt (other than sources).. no changes to stuff any debian user would know..
[02:48] <cokehabit> tseng: you're a mate of lovechilds
[02:49] <Sam0r> which version of debian is ubuntu based on?
[02:49] <tseng> kremlyn: apt works the same. we dont recommend using debian targeted sources generally
[02:49] <dommi> from how I understand it and I could be wrong.  doesnt ubuntu stabilize sid?
[02:49] <tseng> cokehabit: erm, I wouldnt say that
[02:49] <Kamion> joem: our toolchain isn't that significantly differemt from Debian's
[02:49] <nonroot> Anyone know how to import _all_ (old) evolution data from 1.4.x into 2.0.1 (rather than one file at a time)?
[02:49] <tseng> cokehabit: i know the guy, yes.
[02:49] <Kamion> dommi: right
[02:49] <kremlyn> tseng: *nod*
[02:49] <Pakal> Sam0r: unstable
[02:49] <kremlyn> Hmm, so it would be fair to say that ubuntu is to debian, as dropline gnome is to slackware?
[02:49] <joem> Kamion, was talking about difference between ubuntu and gentoo
[02:49] <subterrific> q2: sorry i havent slept in 2 days, i need to go take a nap. i'm just here waiting for a process to finish running at work so i can sleep
[02:49] <cprov_> cokehabit: a kind of ...
[02:49] <Se7h> so
[02:49] <Se7h> does anyone knows whats the Hsync that aneblas 1152 resolution ?
[02:49] <tseng> kremlyn: hm, kinda like that
[02:50] <Kamion> joem: ah, the discussion above was mixed-up, couldn't quite tell
[02:50] <Se7h> *enables
[02:50] <cprov_> btw, I had a problem with the missed dependedes between wireless-tools and libw27, somebody knows Guus Sliepen<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[02:50] <joem> yea, its crazy in here
[02:50] <cprov_> \sdependedes\dependecies
[02:50] <kremlyn> Awesome. I can't wait for the release :-)
[02:50] <LinuxJones> Se7h, why are you hung up on 1152 resolution ?
[02:50] <Pakal> subterrific: "sleep 60m && init 0"
[02:50] <kremlyn> tseng: Thanks for the info :-)
[02:50] <Pakal> subterrific: so, you dont need wait
[02:51] <Se7h> LinuxJones cause i know the monitor is able to display it
[02:51] <cokehabit> hmmmm
[02:51] <Se7h> but not by default
[02:51] <subterrific> Pakal: it's a bit more complicated than that
[02:51] <Se7h> i got to force it
[02:51] <cokehabit> tseng: joem want to know something funny? Lovechilld just installed Ubnutu and his monitor burned out
[02:52] <tseng> ya he said
[02:52] <dommi> has anyone ever tried the velocd firewire cdrw from TDK on ubuntu?
[02:52] <jayeola_afk> thanks dommi . completely forgot about VTs!
[02:52] <dommi> not a problem
[02:52] <cokehabit> so tseng you still devv'ing all over the place then?
[02:52] <tseng> cokehabit: yeah.
[02:53] <tseng> cokehabit: im a freaking nut and a half
[02:53] <subterrific> Pakal: i have to sit here and baby sit this process. it's a pretty complex long running thing that touches oracle, mysql, and several other custom pieces of software all across 5 machines
[02:53] <cokehabit> Reporter: "Hey George, we still haven't found Osama yet..."
[02:53] <cokehabit> GWB: "Who?"
[02:53] <cokehabit> Reporter "Osama Bin Laden... The Billionaire who lives in a cave...?"
[02:53] <cokehabit> GWB: "Oh, Batman!!!"
[02:53] <Pakal> ok, good luck!!
[02:53] <subterrific> cokehabit: heh
[02:54] <tseng> on topic duder.
[02:54] <cokehabit> whats the topic?
[02:54] <cokehabit> just support?
[02:54] <tseng> the topic is ubuntu in general
[02:55] <mdz> you know, the operating system :-)
[02:55] <tseng> not politics or topical humor.
[02:55] <cokehabit> sorry, i just thought i'd give everyone a laugh
[02:55] <Kamion> we'd prefer if the conversation were kept fairly closely to Ubuntu; it means those of us who feel semi-obligated to at least scan the channel logs don't have *quite* so much to wade through when we get up in the morning. :-)
[02:55] <tseng> watch the episode of Family Guy for why topical humor is bad
[02:56] <cokehabit> mdz: well joem is getting me to install ubnutu so i thought i'd have a look
[02:56] <mdz> we hope that you like it
[02:56] <joem> tseng, blahblahblah ubuntu
[02:57] <cokehabit> well i have to write out a "email client how-to" for gentoo and do some college work so i should get some free time around........ february?
[02:57] <joem> tseng, what do you think about a muine-gstreamer package?
[02:57] <lifeless> .window 12
[02:57] <tseng> joem: hm
[02:57] <tseng> joem: is it using xine now? i didnt even look much at that package
[02:57] <joem> yea
[02:57] <tseng> hm.
[02:58] <tseng> seeing as its the default :)
[02:58] <joem> you have to edit the xine-conf file in the gnome2/muine dir to get it to use esd
[02:58] <tseng> ya, gstreamer worked almost as well on gen2
[02:58] <tseng> we could try it
[02:59] <joem> I like the gst backend because I can use gstreamer to set audio driver for all apps
[02:59] <tseng> right now all my packages are apperantly bunk
[02:59] <joem> yea?
[02:59] <joem> why is that
[02:59] <tseng> Todd Berman said so
[02:59] <tseng> so it must be true.
[02:59] <joem> ooh damn, don't want to go messing with him
[02:59] <joem> what did he say about em
[02:59] <tseng> he said
[02:59] <cokehabit> damn im getting sadder......... speechd is coooooool
 tseng: yer shizzle is bunk brother man!
[03:00] <joem> ha
[03:00] <DimSum> http://msbetas.net/HumanV1Final.png
[03:00] <tseng> hm
[03:01] <tseng> thatd be neat if it were reverted to indubstrial pallete
[03:01] <cokehabit> echo "ubuntu Owns Debians Arse" > /dev/speech
[03:01] <tseng> the brown sucks++
[03:01] <cokehabit> lol
[03:01] <DimSum> tseng: Are you saying that Human sucks, or the port? :\
[03:01] <tseng> DimSum: the port is very nice
[03:01] <DimSum> Ah
[03:01] <DimSum> Ty
[03:01] <tseng> i dont like the brown in human is all
[03:01] <DimSum> Ahhh :(
[03:01] <tseng> i like the indubstrial colors
[03:01] <LinuxJones> I like the brown
[03:01] <DimSum> Yeah, I like them both
[03:02] <tseng> you should also install firefox
[03:02] <DimSum> Can't stand it.
[03:02] <tseng> and stop stinking up the web
[03:02] <tseng> :P
[03:02] <DimSum> First thing I did when I installed Ubuntu was took FireFox off
[03:03] <DimSum> Unfortunately, there's no IE for Linux, so I replaced it with Epiphany
[03:03] <subterrific> yeah, IE is much better for getting exploits
[03:03] <DimSum> subterrific: Sure, if you don't patch
[03:03] <tseng> subterrific: thats not my point at all
[03:03] <cokehabit> anyway, im off to fix gcc
[03:03] <cokehabit> laters people
[03:03] <cokehabit> nice to see you again tseng
[03:03] <LinuxJones> night
[03:03] <dommi> DimSum, you like using IE?
[03:03] <DimSum> I do indeed
[03:03] <subterrific> tseng: i know, IE's rendering sucks too
[03:03] <dommi> ok
[03:04] <DimSum> subterrific: Where'd you get that idea from?
[03:04] <mdz> tseng, DimSum: don't get too attached to the theme either way; it's entirely temporary :-)
[03:04] <DimSum> mdz: Shame :\
[03:04] <tseng> subterrific: what i mean is, people using IE encourages web designers to make broken sites
[03:04] <DimSum> Oh well, I guess it's here to stay on Windows XP, anyway ;P
[03:04] <DimSum> tseng: 20 says my site isn't "broken".
[03:04] <DimSum> In any way.
[03:04] <tseng> not yours
[03:05] <DimSum> I use IE... I test purely in IE
[03:05] <tseng> i was generalizing about web developers whos sites are frequented by Ie users.
[03:05] <DimSum> Why would my site be "broken" ?
[03:05] <joem> people don't bother to fix broken sites if the majority of people use a broken web browser
[03:05] <DimSum> My site probably has 99% of it's hits from IE
[03:05] <subterrific> DimSum: you don't check the logs?
[03:05] <DimSum> I do
[03:06] <DimSum> Last time I checked, it was 99 ;P
[03:06] <DimSum> %
[03:06] <dommi> http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/01/26/ie_factor.html
[03:06] <subterrific> DimSum: lets see this amazing website
[03:06] <DimSum> http://osfocus.net/
[03:06] <mdz> DimSum: IE has about 70% market share and falling
[03:06] <DimSum> Haven't updated it in a while
[03:07] <DimSum> Been too busy with Sixth Form and stuff
[03:07] <DimSum> Uni applications, etc
[03:07] <punkass_> i test my sites in IE 6, firefox, Opera, and IE 5.01
[03:07] <DimSum> punkass_: Good man
[03:07] <dommi> http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/20040928-4244.html
[03:07] <jono> anyone here know much about alsa?
[03:07] <dommi> ie 5.01?
[03:07] <dommi> wow you are a sadist
[03:07] <punkass_> :)
[03:07] <DimSum> I don't actually need to, though, considering how everything I do is XHTML 1.0 Strict, Transitional, and 1.1 compliant
[03:07] <tseng> DimSum: ah good.
[03:08] <punkass_> lots o people still running 98/95 out there
[03:08] <DimSum> If Gecko has a problem with any of those, it can sod off, to be honest :)
[03:08] <tseng> validation of standards is a big plus.
[03:08] <DimSum> tseng: Indeed
[03:08] <DimSum> I also make use of the DOM, but I use a JS wrapper for compliance on non-IE platforms
[03:08] <LinuxJones> jono, what is wrong ??
[03:08] <DimSum> So again, everyone wins.
[03:08] <subterrific> DimSum: ghecko doesn't, IE does
[03:08] <DimSum> subterrific: My site looks fine in IE, thanks.
[03:08] <DimSum> Renders a lot faster, as well
[03:09] <mdz> DimSum: "focusing" has only one "s"
[03:09] <DimSum> mdz: You want to put 20 on that?
[03:09] <jono> LinuxJones, I am having problems getting sound from my line in
[03:09] <Kamion> mdz: that's American English
[03:09] <DimSum> I should warn you, I've made a lot of money this way
[03:09] <jono> LinuxJones, I have a four channel sound card
[03:09] <mdz> DimSum: you'd have to split it two ways
[03:09] <LinuxJones> jono, I am too drunk to help with that
[03:09] <DimSum> ;P
[03:10] <mdz> English-English gets that one wrong
[03:10] <jono> hehe
[03:10] <LinuxJones> sorry :D
[03:10] <mdz> DimSum: is your site intentionally 600 pixels wide?
[03:10] <DimSum> Yeah, I'm british, so I'm allowed to say "focussing" and "colour"
[03:10] <DimSum> mdz: It is indeed
[03:10] <dommi> http://stonetable.org/2004/02/24/nifty-css-trick/ <-- very interesting for IE 5 developers
[03:10] <DimSum> Means that 640x480 users can read it
[03:10] <DimSum> Such as me, when I'm at college
[03:11] <mdz> 640x480 users can also read it if you don't make it a fixed width
[03:11] <DimSum> Yeah, but then the news articles would look teeny tiny.
[03:11] <dommi> DimSum, I checked the buffer and didnt see your site linked.  would you mind linking me to it?
[03:11] <DimSum> Anyway, it's not 600 pixels, it's 800 pixels
[03:12] <DimSum> I think :\
[03:12] <mdz> DimSum: then 640x480 users can't read it :-)
[03:12] <DimSum> dommi: http://osfocus.net/
[03:12] <DimSum> mdz: True.
[03:12] <DimSum> Actually, gah... lemme check how wide it is
[03:12] <mdz> it's really not important
[03:13] <mdz> no articles about ubuntu on this site :-(
[03:13] <DimSum> Yeah, it's 800.
[03:13] <DimSum> Oh, I haven't gotten around to posting it yet
[03:13] <DimSum> Still, I figured the visual style would be good publicity in the mean time :P
[03:14] <dommi> DimSum, interesting layout
[03:14] <DimSum> dommi: Ty
[03:14] <dommi> The logo needs work
[03:14] <DimSum> It does? :\
[03:14] <dommi> I dont like the tagline being above the brand
[03:14] <DimSum> Oh right
[03:14] <dommi> its a bit strange
[03:14] <dommi> I like the color layout
[03:15] <DimSum> Ty
[03:15] <DimSum> Click on the bit where it says "More Articles..."
[03:15] <dommi> you might want to consider using variable widths
[03:15] <DimSum> Should work in any major browser
[03:15] <dommi> firefox on ubuntu
[03:15] <dommi> pr1
[03:15] <DimSum> Should work then, give it a go
[03:16] <dommi> yes it does...
[03:16] <DimSum> ;P
[03:17] <dommi> too lazy
[03:17] <dommi> I caught the toggle bit
[03:18] <DimSum> Hehe
[03:18] <DimSum> Yes, it pwns.
[03:18] <DimSum> Also, for those of you who are interested, I'm using a PNG DXAlpha loader filter to display the PNG files with 32-bit transparency under IE6; everything on the site is PNG, and therefore looks lovely.
[03:19] <punkass_> just did this one: www.licq.com
[03:20] <dommi> you ever use plone and zope?
[03:20] <subterrific> png's with transparency just work in other browsers
[03:20] <DimSum> dommi: Who, me?
[03:20] <punkass_> it was XHTML1.0 validated..but it looks like the guy who put it up changed a few things..so now its not :(
[03:20] <subterrific> like css just works
[03:20] <DimSum> subterrific: Yep.
[03:20] <dommi> DimSum, anyone
[03:20] <DimSum> punkass_: :(
[03:20] <subterrific> no need for extreme work arounds for broken IE
[03:20] <DimSum> dommi: Never even heard of them
[03:20] <DimSum> subterrific: Sure, "broken" IE.
[03:20] <dommi> www.plone.org
[03:21] <subterrific> DimSum: yes, it renders valid CSS with zero logic
[03:21] <DimSum> punkass_: Not a bad site.
[03:21] <DimSum> subterrific: IE renders CSS perfectly, thanks.
[03:22] <punkass_> i wish IE would do PNGs without the extra stuff..that would be nice
[03:22] <subterrific> http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/01/30/ie_factor_example.html
[03:22] <DimSum> punkass_: It will do, soon.
[03:22] <dommi> I wish IE would do more than that
[03:22] <subterrific> not so perfect
[03:22] <dommi> pngs are low priority
[03:22] <DimSum> dommi: Like what?
[03:22] <dommi> tabbed browsing
[03:22] <dommi> for one
[03:22] <punkass_> dommi: good point..:)
[03:22] <DimSum> Tabbed, ugh.
[03:22] <DimSum> That's reason #1 why I hate FireFox.
[03:22] <dommi> dont use it. :)
[03:23] <dommi> tabbed browsing that is
[03:23] <subterrific> thats a really stupid reason to hate it because you can turn it off...
[03:23] <punkass_> i could never live without tabs now
[03:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> no-one is forcing you to use tabs
[03:23] <DimSum> Unfortunately, it certain browsers, you have no choice.
[03:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> not to mention that tabbed browsing is the best thing since sliced bread
[03:23] <subterrific> like IE, because it has no tabs
[03:23] <DimSum> subterrific: Thank god.
[03:23] <smo> I must admit that it's an odd concept .. that gnome is moving towards a spatial concept, and browsers are moving .. backwards
[03:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> DimSum: I fail to see your point?
[03:23] <punkass_> tabs in my terminals, tabs in browsers.. tabs in editors...give me tabs!
[03:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> it's trivial to use firefox without tabs
[03:23] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: You ever heard of ALT+Tab?
[03:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> yes, but I fail to see why that makes it bad
[03:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> you can choose not to use it
[03:24] <DimSum> No, you're missing the point
[03:24] <DimSum> ALT+Tab doesn't work in Tabbed Browsing.
[03:24] <DimSum> Which is why I hate it
[03:24] <dommi> cant you assign hotkeys in firefox?
[03:25] <DimSum> Probably?
[03:25] <tseng> its Ctrl+Tab
[03:25] <DimSum> Doesn't change the fact that ALT+Tab doesn't work
[03:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> alt 1/2/3/4/5/6/etc
[03:25] <dommi> http://forums.mozillanews.org/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=295
[03:25] <DimSum> tseng: I'm aware of this, but my left hand stays on the ALT and Tab keys in it's default position
[03:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> I think you've decided you don't like tabs
[03:25] <DimSum> Thumb on Alt, middle finger on Tab.
[03:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> and nothing could eve change your mind
[03:25] <subterrific> thats gotta suck, you have to tab through windows of every other app when all you want is to see another browser window
[03:25] <dommi> actually he probably would if you could alt tab through tabs
[03:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> DimSum: you don't use your keyboard enough then
[03:25] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: Exactly
[03:26] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: Sure I do
[03:26] <DimSum> I hardly ever touch the mouse
[03:26] <DimSum> Which is why I hate tabs so much
[03:26] <Hrdwr_BoB> your thumb should sit on space
[03:26] <DimSum> Sure, thumb of my right hand.
[03:26] <Hrdwr_BoB> with your fingers over the keyboard
[03:26] <punkass_> i had a buddy that was a full IE guy..said fire(bird)fox sucked etc...now thats all he uses..
[03:26] <Hrdwr_BoB> don't you use say... asddfqwertyzxcvbg
[03:26] <subterrific> DimSum: ctrl-tab gives only browser tabs which is more efficient than alt-tab which gives you a list of every single window for every app
[03:27] <DimSum> subterrific: I like that choice
[03:27] <DimSum> I like to be able to order my Windows via Alt+Tab
[03:27] <dommi> ooooh almost forgot, rhythm box is done importing music
[03:27] <subterrific> you don't have that choice in IE
[03:27] <DimSum> So that I can switch from porn, to explorer, to porn, to WMP9, to porn
[03:27] <DimSum> All just by pressing Alt+Tab twice.
[03:27] <subterrific> you can't just see browser windows with IE
[03:27] <subterrific> you can in firefox
[03:27] <Hrdwr_BoB> I switch from apps my .. moving my mouse
[03:27] <Hrdwr_BoB> FFN
[03:27] <DimSum> I don't WANT just to see browser windows
[03:27] <Hrdwr_BoB> *FFM
[03:28] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: Which requires use of my right hand, which is generally busy when viewing porn.
[03:28] <subterrific> DimSum: you just said you did, you use alt-tab to switch browser windows
[03:28] <DimSum> subterrific: Exactly.
[03:28] <punkass_> lol
[03:28] <DimSum> But I like to have other windows in BETWEEN my browser windows
[03:28] <dommi> DimSum, makes a valid argument.  I dont see a reason to dogpile :P
[03:28] <DimSum> ty
[03:28] <dommi> np
[03:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> it is a valid argument
[03:28] <dommi> even though you are a windows user :D
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> however it's more about refusal to retrain
[03:29] <smo> I'm curious wether that user-case turned up in Sun's studies   hehe
[03:29] <DimSum> Anyway, I'm porting Epiphany to Windows
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> or relook at things
[03:29] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: I don't WANT it.
[03:29] <DimSum> *to
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> many things are more effecient
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> however it required the user to change
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> because they're using a broken idea to start with
[03:29] <DimSum> I'm insanely efficient as I am, and restricting the ordering of my windows merely limits my choices
[03:29] <punkass_> different bad, same good.
[03:29] <DimSum> If Linux is all about "choice", then Tabbed Browsing has to be one of the most retarded things the OSS comunity have ever come up with.
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> er
[03:29] <punkass_> ;)
[03:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> CHOOSE NOT TO USE IT
[03:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> end of story
[03:30] <DimSum> With that said, Epiphany doesn't even give users the choice to disable Tabs, so you can't choose not to use it.
[03:30] <DimSum> == owned.
[03:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> don't use epiphany
[03:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> it's crap.
[03:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> IMHO)
[03:30] <punkass_> i agree
[03:30] <DimSum> Oh well.
[03:30] <DimSum> I happen to like it
[03:30] <LinuxJones> DimSum, is you don't like oS why are you in #Ubuntu ?
[03:30] <DimSum> LinuxJones: Because I like Ubuntu
[03:30] <DimSum> Graphically, that is
[03:30] <mdz> there's no requirement that you like anything in particular in order to participate in this channel
[03:30] <LinuxJones> DimSum, oh
[03:31] <mdz> we do ask that you keep the discussion vaguely on-topic, though
[03:31] <dommi> our class project is to turn DimSum into a 100% linux user
[03:31] <cyphos> nifty ;)
[03:31] <mdz> (hint)
[03:31] <DimSum> dommi: Um, no.
[03:31] <DimSum> Point is, I need to install VB .NET 2005 so that I can finish writing Epiphany for Windows
[03:32] <subterrific> DimSum: so you think IE renders CSS 100% perfectly and you ignore the example i give you of IE not rendering valid CSS correctly and requiring insane work arounds.
[03:32] <dommi> DimSum, <nerd response>resistance is futile</>
[03:32] <cyphos> is anyone having problems when clicking on an application from the Applications menu, the application is started twice
[03:32] <DimSum> subterrific: !care.
[03:32] <DimSum> My site displays fine.
[03:32] <cyphos> ie, if you clikc on terminal, two terminals are launched
[03:33] <DimSum> Idiots who use <h2> and <div> tags shouldn't be complaining about standards incompatabilities.
[03:33] <Hrdwr_BoB> "oh, what are you talking about, my site uses mime type text/plain, it works fine in IE..."
[03:33] <DimSum> If they used css font-family assignments and Tables, they wouldn't have these problems
[03:33] <Hrdwr_BoB> *ahem*
[03:33] <subterrific> DimSum: then you complain about tabbed browsing because you can't switch tabs with a keystroke, and refuse to use ctrl-tab and say you'd rather switch through a list of every window to get to whatever browser window you're looking for. all along ignoring the fact that firefox doesn't force tabbed browsing on you
[03:33] <DimSum> Hrdwr_BoB: http://osfocus.net/, XHTML 1.0 Transitional, Strict, and 1.1 compliant, as well as CSS compliant.
[03:33] <DimSum> subterrific: Like I said, I dislike FireFox.
[03:33] <subterrific> DimSum: you're text book fanatic. ignore all logic.
[03:34] <DimSum> It doesn't use a standard Win32 toolkit
[03:34] <cyphos> also too, what package do I need to get the kernel-sources? I merged kernel-package but there's no /usr/src/linux
[03:34] <Hrdwr_BoB> I'm sure it is but I was making an altogether alternative point
[03:34] <Kamion> guys, enough please, you obviously aren't going to convince each other and this isn't really the forum
[03:34] <DimSum> Doesn't use WTL, doesn't use MFC, doesn't use Windows.Forms, doesn't use anything that's even partially recognizable as a goddamn REAL interface on Windows
[03:34] <mdz> #browser-wars is next door
[03:34] <dommi> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.osfocus.net
[03:34] <dommi> hes right
[03:34] <DimSum> Which means that oh, clicking on text boxes only sometimes works, clicking on buttons can sometimes do NOTHING if you click on them too fast, as well as various other inconsistencies
[03:35] <DimSum> dommi: Damn right I am. Force a 1.0 Strict check, as well ;P
[03:35] <LinuxJones> How do you ignore a user in XChat ?
[03:35] <jayeola_afk> ok guys, if i am gonna dual boot with ubuntu, when i'm asked about grub, what do i say? no grub (cos i have it alrady from aother distro)?
[03:35] <DimSum> LinuxJones: /ignore <nick>, I would assume.
[03:35] <LinuxJones> DimSum, ty
[03:36] <dommi> 1.1 trumps 1.0 strict
[03:36] <mdz> jayeola_afk: generally, you'll want to let Ubuntu install grub in the MBR, because it will add grub menu entries for other operating systems
[03:36] <spiv> LinuxJones: You can right-click on them and choose 'ignore', iirc.
[03:36] <DimSum> dommi, true; but 1.0 Strict is harder to validate to ;P
[03:36] <DimSum> Because it's... strict.
[03:36] <dommi> ok
[03:36] <DimSum> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fosfocus.net%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=XHTML+1.0+Strict&verbose=1
[03:36] <DimSum> And, it does.
[03:36] <LinuxJones> spiv, jsut foud it thanks
[03:36] <DimSum> CSS checks out, as well ;P
[03:37] <DimSum> Anyway, to be perfectly honest, I'm somewhat of a fan of Camino, myself.
[03:37] <DimSum> The old Camino - without the gay FireFox-style tabs, though. Ones that you can't disable.
[03:38] <jayeola_afk> 'gay'?
[03:38] <mdz> DimSum: ok, let's let that particular subject lie
[03:38] <DimSum> Indeed
[03:38] <DimSum> jayeola_afk: No offence meant to any homosexuals.
[03:38] <jayeola_afk> !
[03:38] <jayeola_afk> DimSum: it's just a funny way to describe browsers and stuff
[03:39] <DimSum> Oh, lol
[03:39] <DimSum> Pfft ;P
[03:39] <DimSum> Anyway, I really do like this Human port.
[03:39] <jayeola_afk> need a hand bag icon?
[03:39] <DimSum> I'm actually rather proud, to be honest
[03:39] <dommi> I always thought safari was masculine and opera was effeminate
[03:39] <nate> I am having a bit of trouble starting Ubuntu after a fresh install
[03:40] <jayeola_afk> and IE is just .....
[03:40] <DimSum> jayeola_afk: Leet.
[03:40] <DimSum> nate: What's it doing?
[03:40] <punkass_> lol
[03:40] <nate> It comes up to the GNOME splash screen but doesn't get any further
[03:40] <DimSum> :\a
[03:40] <mdz> nate: sounds like #1943
[03:40] <DimSum> *:\
[03:40] <DimSum> Any error messages?
[03:40] <nate> ah...
[03:40] <LinuxJones> nate: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade might help
[03:41] <DimSum> Ubuntu + Anaconda == would be pwn.
[03:41] <pixelated> hello?
[03:41] <nate> hmm. I have an onboard audio device
[03:41] <LinuxJones> pixelated, hi
[03:41] <nate> was working fine with Fedora Core 2
[03:42] <sladen> DimSum: oh even better, ubuntu + Graphical d-i
[03:42] <nate> but I'll try apt-get update and upgrade from a console session
[03:42] <nate> oh wait
[03:42] <DimSum> Screenshots, sladen?
[03:42] <nate> well well well
[03:42] <LinuxJones> nate, some folks had problems the last few days but I think i tmus thave been fixed
[03:42] <nate> it did eventually load, it was just very very slow
[03:42] <mdz> nate: that's symptomatic of #1943.  was your sound device detected correctly?
[03:42] <LinuxJones> nate, good
[03:43] <sladen> DimSum: When it comes out...
[03:43] <DimSum> http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi/
[03:43] <DimSum> This?
[03:43] <nate> dunno, it still won't respond to mouse clicks
[03:43] <DimSum> If so, I'm not liking it.
[03:43] <DimSum> Not at all.
[03:43] <pixelated> coo.. i am checking to make sure there is a channel for ubuntu
[03:43] <nate> looks like something's chewing up the cpu
[03:43] <pixelated> tony, ello
[03:43] <mdz> PGI != d-i
[03:43] <DimSum> Hm.
[03:43] <mdz> PGI is Anaconda
[03:43] <DimSum> It is?
[03:43] <DimSum> Oh.
[03:43] <mdz> oh, no it isn't
[03:43] <dommi> pixelated, no ubuntu chatter around these parts
[03:43] <DimSum> PGI is a multi-architecture graphical installer creation system for Debian GNU/Linux, originally developed by Progeny Linux Systems, Inc. for our Debian-based "Progeny Debian" operating system.
[03:43] <dommi> :D
[03:43] <DimSum> Lol.
[03:44] <pixelated> heh..
[03:44] <mdz> PGI is what Progeny used before they went to Anaconda
[03:44] <dommi> anaconda is the red hat installer. no?
[03:44] <LinuxJones> ya
[03:44] <DimSum> Ah right.
[03:44] <nate> but no. Oh well. Switching to alt-F1 and back again made it come right
[03:44] <nate> weird
[03:44] <dommi> sarge would be the debian installer
[03:44] <DimSum> dommi: Yeah, Anaconda is lovely
[03:44] <dommi> it sucks
[03:44] <DimSum> No, it's waesome
[03:44] <DimSum> *awesome
[03:44] <sladen> DimSum: ``Anaconda, re-branded[*] ''    (* with a 300-tonne sledge-hammer)
[03:45] <DimSum> Most aesthetically pleasing installer ever created, Anaconda.
[03:45] <pixelated> tony is a friend of mine who is just starting linux, and he needs a little help getting gaim installed, its been a little while since i have used debian/debian based distro so he needs a little help
[03:45] <Kosai> I think gaim is installed by default.
[03:45] <LinuxJones> pixelated, is he using Ubuntu ?
[03:45] <sladen> nate: interesting, so when the GNOME splash screen is `hanging' on startup, switching to Alt-F1 and back again clears it?
[03:45] <dommi> pixelated, it should be on the ubuntu installer cd
[03:45] <dommi> and installed by default
[03:45] <jayeola_afk> ok, if i'm dual booting, should my -new- ubuntu part'n be a root one?
[03:45] <sladen> pixelated: go to the Menu at the top and select "Gaim"
[03:45] <dommi> jayeola_afk, root partition?
[03:46] <jayeola_afk> yeah, what kind of part'n should it be? primary + ext3 + ???
[03:47] <pixelated> heh he was trying to use something else for yahoo im... i told him gaim was it and now he sees its installed...
[03:47] <dommi> +bootable flag
[03:47] <jayeola_afk> roger that and thanks
[03:47] <jayeola_afk> oh yeah, mount point = /   ?
[03:48] <jayeola_afk> for the new ubunti part'n that is ...
[03:48] <jayeola_afk> -ubuntu-
[03:48] <nate> sladen: I don't think so actually. What seems to be happening is that raising dialogs is taking an extraordinarily long time. On the order of several minutes per window. Yet there's 300 MB RAM free and CPU's not going above 5%
[03:49] <nate> ie, it took about 2 minutes to bring up 'File Management Preferences' from the Computer menu right now
[03:49] <dommi> jayeola_afk, yurp
[03:49] <jayeola_afk> ;/
[03:49] <jayeola_afk> roger that!
[03:52] <nate> I like the general look and feel though, I thnk
[03:53] <jayeola_afk> if this is the topic, i like the general look and feel of ubuntu
[03:53] <jayeola_afk> the gui menus are very simple when compared to fedora
[03:54] <jayeola_afk> not sure about this sudo business, though.. <dives for cover>
[03:54] <nate> mmm
[03:54] <nate> I think sudo is a good idea actually
[03:54] <jayeola_afk> ?
[03:54] <nate> not exposing the root user strikes me as a very sensible design choice
[03:54] <RichNRockville> I think that Ubuntu is the easiest that I have ever tried to install, actually it is the first one that installed and came up to a graphic screen that worked without having to get a unix guru to come edit some files. It has a lot of promise..
[03:54] <nate> for security
[03:55] <LinuxJones> Thank god they got rid of that insane Debian menu ....that always drove me crazy
[03:55] <nate> what was that?
[03:55] <jayeola_afk> u haven't seen gentoo *sheeesh*
[03:55] <mdz> nate: are you on a laptop?
[03:55] <jayeola_afk> i am
[03:55] <mdz> someone was reporting something similar on (I believe) an HP laptop on ubuntu-users
[03:55] <tony> chris...
[03:56] <pixelated> tony: yo
[03:57] <tony> When I get my mail all the jpegs are "X" s...
[03:58] <tony> Thats the biggest turn off for newbies of Linux...you have do do a hundred things to make one thing work.
[03:58] <DimSum> Omg Marvilla said "thank you" to me for porting Human
[03:59] <nate> mdz: no, a second-hand Celeron 1GHz desktop from a couple years back
[03:59] <nate> it is my play box
[04:00] <nate> hmm, Synaptic reports 53 packages to be upgraded
[04:00] <pixelated> tony: well think of it this way... linux (and most unix like os's) werent really originally designed for end-users, so it has only been in the last few years that they have been getting the 'niceties' and they are still ruff around some edges...
[04:00] <jayeola_afk> uh-huh
[04:00] <nate> DimSum: what's Human?
[04:01] <DimSum> ...
[04:01] <DimSum> You have USED Ubuntu, right?
[04:01] <DimSum> 4.10?
[04:01] <tony> I'd really like to make this work just for the sake of knowing...So where do I start?
[04:01] <pixelated> is there a ppc version of ubuntu?
[04:02] <lifeless> yes
[04:02] <nate> yeah, I first saw it running on an iMac
[04:02] <nate> DimSum: this is the first time I have installed Ubuntu myself
[04:02] <pixelated> hmmm, does it support old world macs?
[04:03] <DimSum> You seen the default theme?
[04:03] <DimSum> That's Human.
[04:03] <nate> aha
[04:03] <nate> it's rather nice
[04:03] <DimSum> Yeah
[04:03] <DimSum> http://www.gfxoasis.com/board/index.php?showtopic=10933
[04:03] <DimSum> Windows XP Port of it, courtesy of moi.
[04:03] <nate> I thought it used Industrial or something though
[04:03] <DimSum> Nah, Human
[04:03] <DimSum> It's based on Industrial
[04:04] <pixelated> tony: best bet is to just ask here... i have never used ubuntu so i am not sure how everything is setup... you know what distro i use ;')
[04:05] <smeggy> what are you trying to make work tony?
[04:06] <tony> Im an idiot as pix will attest...to the operations of Linux...I do not know how to do anything...I need from the very most "basics" on up.
[04:07] <smeggy> What were you saying about not seeing images in your mail?
[04:08] <tony> Like in Outlook ....you see a jpeg.....in Evolution...nothing..just an X.
[04:08] <smeggy> That's a feature.
[04:08] <smeggy> It blocks images because some spam uses images to track who is viewing their spam email.
[04:08] <pixelated> ahhh in evolution, yeah you need to turn it on...
[04:08] <tony> How?
[04:08] <jayeola_afk> tony: tell evo to open images?
[04:08] <smeggy> tony, go to Tools menu, Settings.  "Mail Prefences"
[04:09] <smeggy> Then click the HTML Mail tab, the chose "Always load images from the internet"
[04:09] <jayeola_afk> tony, be carefull! that's how spammers track their prey
[04:09] <nate> yeah, HTML mail is usually mostly spam
[04:09] <nate> if someone wants to email you a photo they should send it as an attachment
[04:10] <nate> though many phones I notice use HTML mail, which is kinda annoying
[04:10] <tony> Wala....Du...ok...Perfect
[04:10] <pixelated> 0
[04:10] <LinuxJones> nate, I only have html email atm :D
[04:11] <tony> I told you guys I know absolutely nothing....
[04:11] <nate> LinuxJones huh? meaning you can't read attachments?
[04:11] <pixelated> install-safe
[04:11] <polok> why doesn't xcdroast find my cdrw when it scans for it
[04:11] <smeggy> tony, anything else troubling you? :)
[04:11] <pixelated> d'oh ww
[04:11] <polok> ?
[04:11] <polok> (also when I manually add it, it won't let burn a cd)
[04:11] <jayeola_afk> tony, have a look at this http://jayeola.org/dump/shot-mail.png
[04:12] <LinuxJones> nate, no in refernece to your comment abotu most html mail being spam, maybe none of my emails are getting thru :P
[04:12] <tony> I just loaded this last night before bed...Im sure I'll find something
[04:12] <jayeola_afk> that's how you tell evo to open/not images by default
[04:12] <jayeola_afk> http://jayeola.org/dump/shot-mail.png
[04:13] <tony> I cannt hyperlink from here?
[04:13] <smeggy> tony, what?
[04:13] <jayeola_afk> you should be able to open it with a browser. what irc client are u using?
[04:13] <tony> Xchat
[04:13] <smeggy> Just right click on the link, and go to "Mozilla Firefox"
[04:13] <smeggy> and click Open :P
[04:14] <smeggy> Actually, just right click on it and click open in web browser.
[04:14] <tony> I got it...
[04:14] <jayeola_afk> it's a good idea _not_ to open images by default. loads of horrid ppl out there sending loads of nasty stuff
[04:15] <smeggy> Yeah.
[04:15] <smeggy> When does Warty get released officially?
[04:16] <Kosai> In about two weeks.
[04:16] <jayeola_afk> ok, so i'm installing ubuntu. it will be the second OS on a box. installer asking me where i wanna install grub
[04:16] <jayeola_afk> should it be (hd0,0)? like that?
[04:16] <jayeola_afk> i already have grub with fedora
[04:17] <jayeola_afk> tony: u ok? u see the image....
[04:17] <nate> is this still the preview release? I forget
[04:17] <smeggy> Yes.
[04:17] <LinuxJones> nate, ya
[04:17] <nate> it was mentioned on Slashdot so I downloaded it
[04:17] <tony> Ya perfect....Next ???
[04:18] <nate> well, Slashdot and everywhere really.  I signed in but my buddy list is gone
[04:19] <pixelated> tony: the buddy list is kept on the local machine...
[04:19] <tony> That was good smeggy....I need that kind of step by step.
[04:19] <tony> That sucks pix.....
[04:20] <smeggy> o.o
[04:20] <pixelated> tony: yeah it does... but aim keeps a copy remote, so i like it much better...
[04:20] <smeggy> I believe AIM and MSN store their lists serverside.
[04:20] <jayeola_afk> tony: better not to have images loaded by default, unless yr into that sort of thing, u will see some horrible images through spam
[04:20] <punkass_> yahoo does to
[04:20] <pixelated> smeggy yeah i know aim does, i dont use msn...
[04:21] <pixelated> punkass: did save mine server side...
[04:21] <pixelated> s/did/didnt
[04:21] <punkass_> i can throw in a live cd start gaim add my yahoo accound and it loads my buddy list
[04:21] <punkass_> oh..i have never have...maybe i lucked out and it did it for me
[04:23] <tony> Do you have Gaim up Chris...uh pix?
[04:24] <pixelated> hmmm been a while since i have used shadowirc...
[04:24] <pixelated> tony: no, this machine doesnt run linux (the 18gig is in it and linux doesnt support the scsi card for ppc) and my other machine is busy testing a fresh install...
[04:25] <pixelated> being called pix is strange...
[04:25] <tony> When are we going to ...where ever to pick up those Macs?
[04:26] <tony> snoopy....shoopy...Iforget...
[04:26] <sloopy> i dunno... next weekend is the installation of the ball and chain... so i have been busy latly...
[04:26] <tony> sloopy?
[04:26] <sloopy> tony: yeah, for 20 years now...
[04:26] <jayeola_afk> ball and chain? u getting married?
[04:26] <sloopy> jayeola: yeah...
[04:27] <jayeola_afk> !
[04:27] <tony> Youre getting married?
[04:27] <sloopy> tony: yeah, you should have gotten an invite...
[04:27] <jayeola_afk> upgraded grilfriend 0.9 to wife 1.0.0
[04:28] <sloopy> jayeola: yeah with freesex 1.0 too! :')
[04:28] <jayeola_afk> !
[04:28] <tony> Tell the old lady to get off the phone...call me...I didnt...
[04:28] <sloopy> tony: she aint on the phone... she left :')
[04:28] <tony> Beta 2 in his case...
[04:29] <sloopy> jayeola: we have two kids together already, the wedding itself is actually a formality...
[04:29] <jayeola_afk> k
[04:29] <tony> Calling...
[04:29] <jayeola_afk> father = shot gun 3.2?
[04:29] <jayeola_afk> father in law?
[04:29] <sloopy> jayeola: nahh...
[04:30] <jayeola_afk> k
[04:32] <Mojo_Jojo> Hi i'm having troubles playing video files. I can get sound but no visual :(
[04:39] <sloopy> is there a graphical app for installing with dependancy resolution? (something like dselect but runs in X)
[04:39] <jayeola_afk> synaptic
[04:39] <jayeola_afk> synaptic = apt + gui
[04:40] <sloopy> tony: there is your answer...
[04:40] <robertj> heya all
[04:40] <smeggy> It's in the computer menu.
[04:40] <smeggy> Hey robertj.
[04:41] <neighborlee> sloopy, that and found here: gnome panel : Computer > system configuration > synatpic package manager
[04:41] <robertj> Finally go ubuntu going on my g3 ibook
[04:41] <robertj> I got pulled away from the install and the power went out
[04:41] <robertj> came back, had to futz with dhclient and do some dist-upgrades
[04:41] <robertj> seems like the only things still b0rk are hibernate and some permissions on /dev/pmu
[04:42] <sloopy> hmmm how do you run it with root priv's?
[04:42] <jayeola_afk> sudo - blah
[04:43] <smeggy> sloopy, if you're the first user account you'll automatically run it with root when you click it in the menu.
[04:43] <smeggy> Otherwise add the user to the sudo group and to the /etc/sudoers file.
[04:43] <robertj> hrmm, firefox isn't starting
[04:44] <glens> noob question:  how to I run a shell script with nautilus in gnome 2.8?  Just seems to want to open it with gedit every time.
[04:44] <jayeola_afk> right click on d-top
[04:44] <jayeola_afk> open new terminal
[04:45] <sloopy> smeggy: let me smack tony around... it is him asking... he is being lazy and not typing...
[04:45] <smeggy> o.o
[04:45] <smeggy> okay..
[04:45] <smeggy> glens, set it to executable, double click on it, then click run in terminal.
[04:45] <robertj> is this a known issue?
[04:46] <smeggy> (to set it to executable, right click, goto properties and tick the "Executable" box on owner.)
[04:46] <sloopy> smeggy: i use a rpm based distro and havnt used debian in a while, and have never used ubuntu so i am not familiar with the tools...
[04:46] <glens> smeggy, it's executable but double clicking opens in gedit.
[04:47] <smeggy> glens, are you sure it's executable? Because opening in gedit is the behaviour I get here when a script is not set to executable.
[04:48] <glens> smeggy, positive.  It's marked as owner rwx, group rx and otherw rx
[04:49] <smeggy> glens, I'm not sure then.  You could get around the problem by creating a launcher pointing to the script and telling it to run in the terminal.
[04:50] <tony> Thanks smeggy...
[04:50] <togs> anybody familiar with IP masquerading? I have a few questions
[04:50] <glens> smeggy, okay... thanks.  very strange.
[04:52] <smeggy> glens, try going to "File Management" preference in the Computer menu and in the Behaviour tab, set "Executable Text Files" to run when they are clicked.
[04:52] <q2> where would Icons for programs be? i want to find the Icon for Evolution????
[04:53] <smeggy> q2, /usr/share/pixmaps ?
[04:53] <robertj> Is there an easy way to remap right click from f12 to another key?
[04:53] <robertj> on this ibook f12 requires pressing the fn key
[04:53] <robertj> so thats two keys to right click
[04:54] <glens> smeggy, just tried but unfortunately it didn't things. :-(
[04:54] <glens> smeggy, didn't >>help<< things.
[04:54] <q2> smeggy, thanks
[04:55] <togs> I have my internal shares going with Samba, so my boxes can see each other. Even following the how-to in the LDP can't put the XP box on the net.
[04:55] <smeggy> q2, and /usr/share/icons i think.
[04:57] <robertj> anyone here have problems firefox on ppc?
[04:59] <togs> If my second ethernet interface on my ubuntu box is set to <IP_ADDRESS>, is that what I put in the gateway for the XP box?
[05:00] <togs> the second interface is the connection from linux box to XP box - first is modem to linux box]
[05:00] <robertj> Neither mozilla nor firefox will open at all
[05:01] <smeggy> Sounds about right togss.
[05:01] <smeggy> robertj, open a terminal and run them there to see what the error is.
[05:01] <robertj> no error
[05:01] <robertj> mozilla-browser isn't installed though
[05:01] <robertj> that's got to be bad
[05:01] <smeggy> Firefox doesn't need it.
[05:01] <togs> ok. it could be the norton firewall on the xp box, i'll have a look at that
[05:01] <smeggy> What happens in a terminal when you run "firefox"?
[05:02] <robertj> selected locale: en-US
[05:02] <robertj> thats it
[05:02] <smeggy> Then it terminates?
[05:02] <robertj> no
[05:02] <robertj> just sits
[05:02] <smeggy> Strange.
[05:02] <robertj> rhythmbox won't open either
[05:03] <smeggy> Does that get an error?
[05:03] <robertj> Yeah
[05:03] <smeggy> What error?
[05:03] <robertj> couldn't initailize, did I run gst-register
[05:04] <togs> do i need a gateway address in the second interface on the linux box?
[05:04] <smeggy> Odd.
[05:04] <robertj> I had all kinds of corba errors my first start as well
[05:05] <moyogo> does anyone have gvim with its icon in the applications menu? It doesn't have any icon for me
[05:09] <partially> had anyone had a problem with cdrom detection?
[05:09] <partially> (durring the install process)
[05:09] <Se7h> on fstab
[05:10] <robertj> reinstalled and its working
[05:10] <Se7h> is GUID=N,UID=N
[05:10] <Se7h> right?
[05:10] <jsubl2> moyogo, mine does not have an icon either
[05:10] <smeggy> Neither.
[05:12] <partially> i have a shuttle SB65G2 with a WD Raptor drive with a Plextor dvd/cd rewriter and durring the begining of the install it askes for a floppy or for me to select the correct modules
[05:12] <togs> partially, i did, but that was on an old box. it worked fine in this one :)
[05:12] <partially> twenty minutes later, I found out none of the modules worked
[05:12] <togs> i couldn't tell you why though :)
[05:13] <partially> togs: this box is supported fine under debian, and seeing as ubuntu is basically "fancy" debian, I am not to sure why it does not work
[05:13] <Hrdwr_BoB> well it does have an entirely different kernel
[05:13] <togs> mate, if you're using debian, you know more then I :)
[05:15] <partially> togs: heh, i *started* with debian a year ago, it was not the best choice to start with =p
[05:15] <togs> I just can't get my other XP box on the net through ipmasq, is all :)
[05:15] <togs> lol
[05:15] <togs> ubuntu is my first real linux experience for about a year or so
[05:16] <partially> Hrdwr_BoB: i had kernel 2.6.8-smp and debian installed fine on this computer, no problems, so i don't think it is the kernel
[05:17] <partially> ubuntu uses 2.6.8, correct?
[05:17] <Hrdwr_BoB> yes
[05:17] <robertj> Can anyone test out a possible rhythmbox bug here?
[05:18] <smeggy> Sure.
[05:18] <partially> robertj: i am game
[05:18] <robertj> Start Rhythmbox for the first time and then ask it to search on an sftp:// loc for your library
[05:19] <Se7h> i got a locker on my pasted files
[05:20] <Se7h> what does that mean =?
[05:20] <reddawn> 9OOD JO8 0N th3 d1s+rI8U+ION5 GUY5
[05:21] <smeggy> Must you speak like that?
[05:21] <neighborlee> is there a fix for the mplayer weirdness ?LOL
[05:21] <reddawn> fine danmm..
[05:21] <partially> reddawn: i am not digging the caps
[05:21] <partially> heh
[05:21] <reddawn> anyways why is Gnome the default desktop!
[05:21] <wm_eddie> I knew it!
[05:21] <partially> why not! =p
[05:21] <reddawn> It sucks
[05:21] <wm_eddie> reddawn: Same reason KDE is the default on others.
[05:22] <reddawn> KD3 r0x0Rez
[05:22] <neighborlee> reddawn, cause gnome rulez
[05:22] <reddawn> na..
[05:22] <neighborlee> wm_eddie, heh exactly
[05:22] <reddawn> gnome not much eyecandy..
[05:22] <partially> exactly
[05:22] <wm_eddie> reddawn: It has plenty.
[05:22] <smeggy> If you don't like it, install KDE.
[05:22] <smeggy> Simple.
[05:22] <reddawn> not by default
[05:22] <reddawn> i did
[05:22] <reddawn> hehe..
[05:22] <smo> I'd love to see r0x0Rez on a nice ibm-style advert
[05:22] <reddawn> kde 3.3
[05:22] <robertj> partially: did you get the same result?
[05:22] <smeggy> Then what is the problem?
[05:22] <partially> robertj: yes
[05:22] <reddawn> just asking why gnome was default
[05:23] <smeggy> Gnome is the default because there are Gnome developers working on Ubuntu.
[05:23] <robertj> I guess the next question is, anyone got a fedora 2 system laying around to test on?
[05:23] <wm_eddie> reddawn: Because it's the favorite.
[05:23] <smeggy> And Gnome is a sensible choice for a desktop oriented OS.
[05:23] <reddawn> oh ok. that explains
[05:23] <reddawn> it
[05:23] <reddawn> 1 think5 uBuNTU 15 9R3@T @Nd W1+h kD3 Th4t sh1T R0X0R eVeN M0R3!
[05:23] <reddawn> hehe.
[05:23] <neighborlee> smeggy, yes that too...gnome being the one truly GPL wm doesn't hurt either <wink>
[05:23] <neighborlee> ;-)lol
[05:23] <smeggy> Please don't talk like that, reddawn.
[05:23] <smeggy> neighborlee, ;)
[05:23] <reddawn> I use Gentoo
[05:23] <wm_eddie> neighborlee: it's not a wm...
[05:23] <wm_eddie> I knew it!
[05:24] <togs> 2.8 is a big improvemnt over the version in RH 7.3, anyway :)
[05:24] <robertj> partially: have any other boxes to test rb on?
[05:24] <robertj> I nuked my f2 partition a few weeks ago
[05:24] <wm_eddie> reddawn had Gentoo/KDE ____ written all over him
[05:24] <smeggy> lol
[05:24] <neighborlee> heh
[05:24] <partially> i have a debian box and a suse
[05:24] <reddawn>   ____            _                ____
[05:24] <reddawn>  / ___| ___ _ __ | |_ ___   ___   |  _ \ _____  _____  _ __ ___
[05:24] <reddawn> | |  _ / _ \ '_ \| __/ _ \ / _ \  | |_) / _ \ \/ / _ \| '__/ __|
[05:24] <reddawn> | |_| |  __/ | | | || (_) | (_) | |  _ < (_) >  < (_) | |  \__ \
[05:24] <reddawn>  \____|\___|_| |_|\__\___/ \___/  |_| \_\___/_/\_\___/|_|  |___/
[05:24] <reddawn>
[05:24] <partially> no fedora
[05:24] <smeggy> You can smell the Gentoo users a mile off..
[05:24] <reddawn> yup
[05:24] <reddawn> what wrong with gentoo?
[05:24] <smeggy> Actually, I lie.
[05:24] <wm_eddie> reddawn: everything.
[05:24] <smeggy> You can't smell them.
[05:24] <reddawn> like?
[05:24] <robertj> partially: anything besides sid that might have rb .8 series?
[05:24] <smeggy> You can smell their CPUs melting, from all that compiling.
[05:24] <neighborlee> reddawn, gentoo is fine..IF you dont mind compiling yourself into oblivion..SOME of us have lives outside of GCC
[05:25] <smeggy> That, and the .00005% speed increases they pull from their arse.
[05:25] <reddawn> hehehe not really if you have a fsck 3.4Ht
[05:25] <reddawn> 2Gb ram
[05:25] <smeggy> They smell a bit too.
[05:25] <neighborlee> wm_eddie, cuse me yes..its a desktop ENV>...metacity is our beloved WM LOL
[05:25] <partially> robertj: no
[05:25] <smeggy> <3 metacity
[05:25] <reddawn> you are just a freaking Debian.. no0b
[05:25] <wm_eddie> reddawn: http://www.funroll-loops.org/
[05:25] <reddawn> na.. thanks
[05:25] <smeggy> Who wants to take bets on how old reddawn is?
[05:25] <wm_eddie> just look there, and get embarrased.
[05:25] <reddawn> see what i mean..
[05:25] <smeggy> I'm saying 14.
[05:25] <wm_eddie> 15
[05:25] <reddawn> hehe.. not even.
[05:25] <partially> 14
[05:25] <reddawn> nope
[05:25] <partially> 13
[05:26] <smeggy> Oh, 12?
[05:26] <reddawn> Debian users i knew it..
[05:26] <reddawn> lol
[05:26] <smeggy> Hey, at least we have a sense of humour.
[05:26] <togs> why come in here if you are only gonna slag off debian?
[05:26] <reddawn> im not!
[05:26] <smeggy> And a life outside of recompiling our systems.
[05:26] <neighborlee> reddawn, is there anything else ?<G>
[05:26] <reddawn> you guys are bashing on Gentoo
[05:26] <smeggy> No we're not.
[05:26] <reddawn> did i say anything bad about debian
[05:26] <neighborlee> j/k of course..but you kinda had that coming ;-)
[05:26] <smeggy> We respect Gentoo.  That doesn't mean we have to use it.
[05:26] <smeggy> Right guys? :)
[05:26] <wm_eddie> reddawn: Gentoo is just a bad idea.
[05:26] <neighborlee> exactly
[05:26] <reddawn> thats right..
[05:26] <wasabi> i don't respect gentoo.
[05:26] <reddawn> u dont have to use it..
[05:26] <wm_eddie> I know, because I'm using it right now.
[05:26] <partially> i very much like gentoo, i just did not like the package system over debian
[05:26] <wasabi> am i suspose to?
[05:27] <smo> it's certainly a user-case that ubuntu doesn't cater to .. horses for courses
[05:27] <reddawn> nope
[05:27] <partially> emerge vs. apt-get, apt-get wins in my book
[05:27] <reddawn> I like both Debian and Gentoo
[05:27] <neighborlee> smo, lol
[05:27] <wm_eddie> apt-get > emerge definately
[05:27] <partially> heh
[05:27] <wm_eddie> nothing is more annoying than waiting half an hour, to see it fail!!!
[05:27] <wm_eddie> grr..
[05:27] <neighborlee> lol
[05:27] <smeggy> It doesn't really matter.
[05:27] <reddawn> na.. that cuz you people run freaking i386's
[05:27] <glens> why can't we all just get along? :-)
[05:27] <reddawn> lol
[05:27] <smeggy> This is the whole point of free software.
[05:27] <smeggy> Choice.
[05:28] <neighborlee> glens, we can and usually DO
[05:28] <wm_eddie> reddawn: or perhaps I have a Athlon-64...
[05:28] <neighborlee> reddawn, its all personal taste ;-)
[05:28] <reddawn> i dont have have to wait half an hour i wait secons on my 3.4HT
[05:28] <reddawn> so...
[05:28] <reddawn> same shit..
[05:28] <neighborlee> reddawn, some use JUST ubunt and some multi boot into oblivion LOL
[05:28] <smeggy> rofl.  I'd like to see you compile KDE in "seconds" on your mythical "uber beast".
[05:28] <neighborlee> ubuntu
[05:28] <reddawn> i have a dual Opteron and u dont see me bitching?
[05:28] <smeggy> I thought it was  Pentium?
[05:28] <wasabi> has ubuntu made any comments about what type of java support they might be doing?
[05:28] <smeggy> You seem quite confused.
[05:28] <reddawn> dont be stupid of course it will take a while.
[05:28] <phr0stbyte> Has any1 got an nVidia card running with the nVidia drivers here?
[05:28] <Kosai> wasabi: Yes.  Read the FAQ.
[05:29] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, yes.
[05:29] <reddawn> I have a P4 3.4HT as my main righ..
[05:29] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, yes they work fine
[05:29] <reddawn> my server is a dual opteron 2.0
[05:29] <smeggy> reddawn, We really don't care.
[05:29] <reddawn> Get it!
[05:29] <phr0stbyte> smeggy: I cant get mine going....
[05:29] <phr0stbyte> =(
[05:29] <wm_eddie> I need to get both Java 5.0 and Java 1.4 on my laptop.
[05:29] <reddawn> They you ask?
[05:29] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, What's happening?
[05:29] <wm_eddie> (I need 1.4 for homework)
[05:29] <smeggy> reddawn, I didn't.
[05:29] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, hmm what have you tried so far
[05:29] <partially> reddawn: you have told us abotu your computers and we are overly impressed, *new* topic
[05:29] <reddawn> Debian users..
[05:29] <smeggy> Yes, we're so impressed, we just can't bring ourselves to mention them again.
[05:29] <reddawn> sigh.
[05:30] <smeggy> Because if we mention these extremely high powered machines, we may cry.

[05:30] <partially> heh
[05:30] <wm_eddie> reddawn: Gentoo user... :p
[05:30] <wm_eddie> lol
[05:30] <reddawn> HOw @B0u+ J00 GUy5 JUS+ shUt +He FUxOR UP 4nD +4Lk 48OU+ $0MeTHinG eL53!
[05:30] <phr0stbyte> smeggy: It works fine with just the "nv" driver, but when I change it to "nvidia" it borks out saying no usable screens
[05:30] <smeggy> We've been suggesting that for ages.
[05:30] <reddawn> apt-get install nvidia-gls i think  phr0stbyte
[05:30] <reddawn> apt-get install nvidia-glx i think  phr0stbyte*
[05:31] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, reddawn is correct..then there is one command you run afterwards which sets the 3d driver up
[05:31] <reddawn> then modprobe nvidia
[05:31] <reddawn> not it should do it automatically
[05:31] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, ie: you dont have to edit XF86Config anymore
[05:31] <reddawn> that how i did on my Ubuntu box
[05:31] <smeggy> Don't edit the X config file
[05:31] <neighborlee> no I mean to enable 3d..
[05:32] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: in fact do not ever edit XF86Config ever again.
[05:32] <smeggy> Because you'll break dpkg's handling of it.
[05:32] <reddawn> apt-get nvidia-glx, modprobe nvidia, edit xf84config and change the nv to nvidia
[05:32] <partially> how stable is ubuntu? i am thinking about implementing it on one of my server, any thoughts?
[05:32] <neighborlee> no
[05:32] <reddawn> Really stable for me atleast
[05:32] <neighborlee> partially, can't imagine any trouble you'd have
[05:32] <wm_eddie> reddawn: you sure? I thought dkpg handled that?
[05:32] <neighborlee> partially, its as stable as debian so far that i can see
[05:32] <wasabi> partially: it's debian.
[05:32] <reddawn> yes but i didnt need to do that. thouhg
[05:32] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, Install the module.  Do sudo modprobe nvidia.  Then run sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[05:32] <partially> wasabi: heh
[05:33] <wasabi> partially: mostly it's just debian with a more appropiate management structure. ie, releases.
[05:33] <reddawn> true..
[05:33] <reddawn> good point
[05:33] <wasabi> and a very nice default set up
[05:33] <neighborlee> wasabi, yup
[05:33] <partially> does it use XFree or X.org?
[05:33] <phr0stbyte> Doing it now
[05:33] <wasabi> XFree.
[05:33] <wm_eddie> I'm thinking about changing this system to Ubuntu... but other than the sometimes frustrating failed e-builds, It's not too bad.
[05:33] <smeggy> Its a polished Debiant without ancient packages.
[05:33] <reddawn> Xfree :(
[05:33] <normnmiles> but xorg next release
[05:33] <neighborlee> wasabi, very nice default setup..i WAS impressed having sound with gnome out of the box ;-))..very kewl
[05:33] <reddawn> nice..
[05:33] <reddawn> Xorg is fucking fast!
[05:33] <tony> smeggy...
[05:33] <partially> normnmiles: nice
[05:33] <smeggy> Yeah?
[05:33] <wm_eddie> I still use XFree :)
[05:33] <wasabi> I imagine XFree will hang around under debian gets xorg packaged (which I think it waiting for it to be modulized?)
[05:34] <reddawn> lol..
[05:34] <partially> i really hope debian also moves to x.org soon
[05:34] <stuckupfool> can Anone tell me what version of the kernel ubuntu 4.1 preview uses?
[05:34] <reddawn> it really fast
[05:34] <wm_eddie> because I have no want to compile X.
[05:34] <reddawn> <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:34] <wasabi> partially: not until after sarge
[05:34] <stuckupfool> thanks
[05:34] <smeggy> Does it really matter if we use x.org or xfree, because as far as your average desktop system is concerned, it doesn't matter.
[05:34] <reddawn> ur welcome
[05:34] <reddawn> Xorg is faster
[05:34] <wasabi> smeggy: XDamage.
[05:34] <tony> ready for more questions?
[05:34] <wasabi> xorg isn't really faster.
[05:34] <smeggy> Nothing really noticable.
[05:34] <reddawn> a complete rewrite and taking stuff out that dont work
[05:34] <smeggy> Go ahead lol.
[05:34] <wasabi> and Composite support, which works for me. ;0
[05:34] <reddawn> it starts up faster!
[05:35] <wm_eddie> reddawn: X takes about 1 second to boot on this thing.
[05:35] <tony> lol
[05:35] <smo> I'll admit I just want some of that transparency crack .. eventually
[05:35] <reddawn> mine too..
[05:35] <wm_eddie> gnome is what takes the longest.
[05:35] <partially> smeggy: x.org is a *little* faster, but i just like how fast the [project has been moving, whereas xfree is moving like a snail =p
[05:35] <wasabi> reddawn: xorg isn't a complete rewrite....
[05:35] <reddawn> not really
[05:35] <wasabi> reddawn: xorg is nothing other than xfree forked
[05:35] <tony> Trying to install amule
[05:35] <normnmiles> checked out the wiki and they have xorg scheduled for hoary.
[05:35] <wm_eddie> I do want that shadow hack too :(
[05:35] <normnmiles> with some mods like transparency
[05:35] <wm_eddie> I'm a sucker for eyecandy I must admit.
[05:35] <reddawn> true but with the useless shit taken out..
[05:35] <smeggy> partially, Yeah, totally. I'm all for the move to x.org.  I'm just saying, that from a users POF, it doesn't really matter ATM.
[05:35] <wasabi> Xorg does not have transparency
[05:35] <wasabi> it has composite support.
[05:36] <reddawn> On my gentoo it does.!
[05:36] <phr0stbyte> smeggy: Then restart x?
[05:36] <reddawn> sudo killall -ABRT gdm  killall -ABRT X
[05:36] <smo> okay, I'll admit my n00bness and rephrase  "I want something resembling kp's screenshots".  I'm honest  lol
[05:36] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, yep.
[05:37] <wm_eddie> It's pretty sick, but it's not really needed, I'll manage.
[05:37] <reddawn> i need to add ram to this testbox
[05:37] <wm_eddie> I'd rather wait for "real" transparancy and shadows, not just a hack.
[05:37] <smo> well yeah .. following gnome's time-based releases is what sold me.  but I can dream of more candy
[05:37] <reddawn> KDE
[05:37] <reddawn> hehe.
[05:37] <reddawn> sorry guys
[05:37] <smeggy> I prefer no transparency.  It gets in the way IMO.
[05:38] <reddawn> sometimes yes..
[05:38] <partially> KDE is way to clubbered for me
[05:38] <wm_eddie> I used to be into KDE, but now --I don't know-- its strange.
[05:38] <reddawn> ehh people have theirs tastes..
[05:38] <reddawn> i use fluxbox sometimes
[05:38] <reddawn> well on my server i use fluxbox
[05:38] <wm_eddie> I use XFCE4 on my laptop :) It's awesome.
[05:38] <reddawn> on my desktop kde
[05:38] <normnmiles> reddawn you ever try xfce4?
[05:39] <partially> reddawn: fluxbox is not bad at all, and it is pretty speedy
[05:39] <reddawn> nope is it nice/
[05:39] <smeggy> I use Mac OSX on my laptop ;)
[05:39] <normnmiles> very nice
[05:39] <reddawn> do you have some shots?
[05:39] <wm_eddie> It's really nice, with a lot of features.
[05:39] <reddawn> nice..
[05:39] <normnmiles> wm_eddie stole my thunder  :(
[05:39] <reddawn> i might just look into that
[05:39] <wm_eddie> reddawn: they also have flash animations of it working
[05:39] <reddawn> link?
[05:39] <wm_eddie> http://www.xfce.org/index.php?page=screenshots&lang=en
[05:40] <reddawn> hey guys are we getting forums.. thanks let me check it out
[05:40] <wm_eddie> flash files are at the bottom of the page.
[05:40] <normnmiles> yes they are working on it
[05:40] <Se7h> can anyone tell me where i can get totem-xine from apt-get?
[05:40] <smeggy> They'd better hurry.
[05:40] <smeggy> I want my forums!
[05:40] <Se7h> i reinstalled ubuntu
[05:40] <phr0stbyte> Thanx all! nVidia driver is running!!!
[05:40] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, kewl ;-)
[05:40] <Se7h> so i've lost the sources i had
[05:40] <wm_eddie> reddawn: I can't say much for it's file browser though.
[05:41] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, now get those kewl linux native games! ;-)heh
[05:41] <reddawn> Woahh  im inpressed!
[05:41] <neighborlee> phr0stbyte, heh
[05:41] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, good job :)
[05:41] <reddawn> fast and nice eyecandy
[05:41] <wm_eddie> but Rox Filer is a good and very fast alternative
[05:41] <reddawn> yup..
[05:41] <reddawn> it is rox r0x
[05:41] <neighborlee> wm_eddie, never tried it but I know of it..i prefer gentoo FM &/or nautilus
[05:41] <phr0stbyte> Now I can install UT2004!
[05:41] <reddawn> lol
[05:41] <smeggy> How'd you get it going phr0stbyte?
[05:41] <neighborlee> gentoo is so light and very customizeable
[05:41] <reddawn> got it? phr0stbyte?
[05:41] <flamesrock> hey, I'm curious, has anyone recieved their free cd's?
[05:41] <phr0stbyte> smeggy: xactly as you said
[05:41] <flamesrock> I can't wait to install
[05:41] <phr0stbyte> thanx
[05:41] <smeggy> phr0stbyte, ah good. :)
[05:42] <reddawn> 3d working nice..
[05:42] <normnmiles> warty hasn't been finalized yet i don't think.
[05:42] <reddawn> cant live withoug 3d
[05:42] <normnmiles> middle of oct
[05:42] <flamesrock> ah
[05:42] <wm_eddie> reddawn: have you tried that Java3d WM?
[05:42] <reddawn> been wanting too.. havent gotten around too..
[05:42] <reddawn> looks kinda sexy and resource hungry
[05:43] <stuckupfool> can anyone direct me towards a good article on setting up ALSA in ubuntu?
[05:43] <reddawn> it should work already stuckupfool!
[05:43] <hello> stuckupfool: it didn't set it up automatically?
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> 4975 frames in 5.0 seconds = 995.000 FPS
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> 4940 frames in 5.0 seconds = 988.000 FPS
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> 4938 frames in 5.0 seconds = 987.600 FPS
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> 4946 frames in 5.0 seconds = 989.200 FPS
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> 4974 frames in 5.0 seconds = 994.800 FPS
[05:43] <phr0stbyte> not bad...
[05:43] <reddawn> open up a console and type  alsamixer
[05:43] <stuckupfool> I can't hear things so I'd say its not working
[05:43] <reddawn> and unmute everything
[05:43] <smeggy> reddawn, sexy and resource hungry eh? Sounds like KDE! :P
[05:43] <wm_eddie> 12498 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2499.600 FPS
[05:43] <wm_eddie> pwned :p
[05:43] <reddawn> hehe.. punk..
[05:43] <reddawn> lol
[05:44] <reddawn> holly shit... really pwned!!
[05:44] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: you suck
[05:44] <wm_eddie> hehe
[05:44] <reddawn> heheh
[05:44] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: my card is several years old....
[05:45] <reddawn> mines suck on here!
[05:45] <phr0stbyte> gotta get a new one soon
[05:45] <reddawn> this is my test system :(
[05:45] <reddawn> Equinox-Specs:  | Linux <IP_ADDRESS>-2-386 | AMD Athlon(tm) Processor 748.856 MHz | Bogomips: 1474.56 | Mem: 144/314M [||||||||||]  | Diskspace: 84.78G Free: 46.87G | Procs: 88 | Uptime: 50 mins 10 secs | Load: 0.08 0.15 0.16 | Vpenis: 31.5 inches | Screen: @1024x768 (24 bpp) Core: 149.788 MHz Memory: 182.952 MHz Wifi: In: 9.56M Out: 2.71M
[05:45] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: Just save up about $200 and you can get a real nice one.
[05:45] <reddawn> see..
[05:45] <wm_eddie> please no scripts.
[05:45] <reddawn> why not?
[05:45] <smeggy> Because they're annoying.
[05:46] <reddawn> ehhh.. shit atleast im not flooding
[05:46] <phr0stbyte> Linux Phr0sty <IP_ADDRESS>-3-686 #1 Thu Sep 30 13:50:46 BST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:46] <reddawn> how come there is not OP
[05:46] <wm_eddie> because then this room will become like #DDRManiaX  with scripts going by so much you can't read what people are saying.
[05:46] <smeggy> Because FreeNode network policy encourages operators not to remain opped.
[05:46] <reddawn> im not like that i was just showing you guys how shitty the system is and how fast Ubuntu runs
[05:46] <partially> how is the packaege count for ubuntu compared to debian
[05:46] <reddawn> thats all
[05:46] <reddawn> sorry
[05:47] <reddawn> no wonder otw moved to Efnet
[05:47] <reddawn> hehe
[05:47] <phr0stbyte> No MPlayer in Ubuntu?!?!?!
[05:47] <hello> uh
[05:47] <smeggy> Just use Totem. ;)
[05:47] <reddawn> apt-get install mplayer
[05:47] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/sources.list
[05:47] <hello> apt-get install mplayer
[05:47] <wm_eddie> mplayer stuffs for ubuntu
[05:47] <hello> besides, totem is better :-)
[05:47] <wm_eddie> yeah totem is better.
[05:47] <phr0stbyte> hello: no way
[05:48] <wm_eddie> anyone know where I can get totem-xine?
[05:48] <reddawn> use synaptic to search for it!
[05:48] <reddawn> Google is your friend!
[05:48] <smeggy> It's not in the default Ubuntu repos.
[05:48] <reddawn> !google totem-xine
[05:48] <wm_eddie> I mean, like non-retarded totem-xine
[05:48] <reddawn> shit wrong channel
[05:48] <normnmiles> partially, check out components section on website.
[05:49] <smo> the testing component of the debian-marilliat (google for mirrors) appears to work ok .. but it's of dubious legallity, so don't expect it in universe any time soon
[05:49] <wm_eddie> reddawn: I'm asking for something I can put in my apt sources
[05:49] <reddawn> im recompilling my Ubunto kernel
[05:49] <reddawn> oh ok..
[05:50] <smeggy> totem-xine is in Universe.
[05:50] <wm_eddie> smeggy: non-retarted version?
[05:50] <smeggy> Define what you mean by "retarded"?
[05:50] <reddawn> not many things are included
[05:50] <reddawn> wont play certain files
[05:50] <reddawn> because of the copyright shit.
[05:50] <wm_eddie> Can't play certain file formats because of legality issues.
[05:50] <reddawn> yup
[05:51] <smeggy> You'll just have to try it and see.
[05:51] <smeggy> But I'm guessing its probably "retarded".
[05:51] <reddawn> i had to get w32codec to play WMA files on xine and mplayer
[05:51] <neighborlee> so anyone know how to stop the weird /dev/mixer 'flashing dialog warning' problem with mplayer ?
[05:51] <neighborlee> and yes I do have libdvscss2 installed
[05:51] <reddawn> got me there.. buddy
[05:51] <neighborlee> me too lol
[05:51] <wm_eddie> But unfortunately I can't get sound working so it doesn't matter yet.
[05:52] <neighborlee> never seen this behavior b4
[05:52] <wm_eddie> I need alsaconf T_T
[05:52] <reddawn> im updating udev, base layout
[05:52] <reddawn> and recompiling my Ubuntu kernel some missing modules issues
[05:53] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: Wont the Debian packages in some of those sources break Ubuntu?
[05:53] <reddawn> does it even detect your soundcard wm_eddie?
[05:53] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: That's why I'm asking for people with experience.
[05:54] <wm_eddie> reddawn: I have a IBM 400E, Alsaconf detects it correctly.  It's kind of hard to explain.
[05:54] <wm_eddie> The souncard has Legacy emulation.
[05:54] <reddawn> ok..
[05:54] <wm_eddie> and the cs45XX driver doesn't work correctly.
[05:54] <reddawn> does it show up in /dev/
[05:55] <wm_eddie> so you just force alsa to use the legacy card, and it works perfect.
[05:55] <reddawn> oh ok..
[05:55] <reddawn> cuz i had a same problem kinda like yours..
[05:55] <reddawn> but it turned out that it was my tv-tuner sound card
[05:55] <wm_eddie> and they removed alsaconf because it was buggy (last time I checked)
[05:56] <reddawn> apt-get alsaconf  if your afraid that it will bork your system.. just backup /etc
[05:56] <reddawn> apt-get install alsa-utils
[05:56] <partially> wm_eddie: the latest testing release of it on debian still had alsaconf
[05:57] <wm_eddie> I guess I'll do an apt-get update and try installing alsa-utils again.
[05:57] <reddawn> try that..
[05:58] <wm_eddie> It's not too much of a problem. I use the laptop mainly for homework.
[05:58] <reddawn> have you tried recompiling your kernel?
[05:58] <normnmiles> anyone have know of a wireless pcmia card that works with ubuntu?
[05:59] <reddawn> i guess anything with a Prism chipset in it!
[05:59] <wm_eddie> 15014 frames in 5.0 seconds = 3002.800 FPS
[05:59] <wm_eddie> normnmiles: my orinoco gold card works fine.
[06:00] <normnmiles> wm_eddie, thanks!
[06:00] <reddawn> it is the prism chipset?
[06:01] <wm_eddie> hm...
[06:01] <reddawn> lspci ??
[06:01] <wm_eddie> good question.  It uses the orinoco_cs driver.
[06:01] <wm_eddie> I'd have to boot my laptop.
[06:01] <reddawn> no its okay
[06:01] <reddawn> it prob does
[06:01] <LinuxJones> night all
[06:01] <reddawn> nite
[06:02] <jayeola_afk> g'nite
[06:02] <partially> c ya
[06:02] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: Now all I gotta do is get this Wacom Graphire3 working, and I'll be set!
[06:02] <phr0stbyte> (easier said than done)
[06:02] <wm_eddie> You're on your own there, I've never even seen a wacom...
[06:02] <phr0stbyte> Its a drawing tablet
[06:03] <partially> phr0stbyte: let me know if you get it working, my nextproject is getting linux on my toshiba m200 tablet pc; uses a wacom tablet
[06:03] <Se7h> can anyone tell me where i can get totem-xine from apt-get
[06:03] <Se7h> and j2sdk1.4
[06:03] <jayeola_afk> Se7h: prolly da weirs
[06:03] <phr0stbyte> partially: From what I have read, it does work - IF you can ever get it configured correctly
[06:04] <phr0stbyte> very few have
[06:04] <jayeola_afk> -dag-
[06:04] <partially> heh
[06:04] <wm_eddie> Se7h: check out the site for info about Java.
[06:04] <Se7h> jayeola_afk wha ?
[06:04] <jayeola_afk> http://dag.wieers.com/
[06:04] <neighborlee> Se7h, just uncomment out the sources.list section universe and update and voila...
[06:04] <Se7h> wm_eddie k ty
[06:04] <jayeola_afk> try there, a massive repo
[06:05] <jayeola_afk> but do what neighborlee said. /etc/aspt/sources.list
[06:05] <jayeola_afk> uncomment the urls and you are away
[06:06] <[rain] > anyone have a clue why apm doesn't work with my bx-board in ubuntu? at least not when shutting down
[06:06] <Se7h> one more thing
[06:06] <phr0stbyte> rain: dissabled in the kernel?
[06:07] <Se7h> how do i list the available partitions?
[06:07] <Se7h> fdisk -l ?
[06:07] <wm_eddie> df?
[06:07] <[rain] > phr0stbyte: I haven't changed anything. It's vanilla ubuntu. Could be disabled by default you mean?
[06:08] <phr0stbyte> rain: could be
[06:08] <wm_eddie> Se7h: I can't seem to find that Java info right now, I'm looking
[06:08] <nate> so I am still getting used to the Debian way of doing things
[06:08] <nate> I take it Debian has no conception of a 'service'?
[06:08] <wm_eddie> ?
[06:08] <nate> I miss SysV init
[06:08] <wasabi> huh?
[06:08] <wasabi> debian is sysv init
[06:08] <nate> it is? Hmm
[06:08] <wasabi>  /etc/init.d
[06:09] <[rain] > phr0stbyte: hm, setting the screen to standy seems to work though. so at least there's some support
[06:09] <phr0stbyte> rain: you can check by going to the kernel header directory and running "make mrproper" and then "make menuconfig"
[06:09] <nate> then why is there no GUI tool for managing services like there is in Fedora?
[06:09] <wasabi> GUI == sysv init?
[06:09] <wasabi> suprise!
[06:09] <wasabi> because nobody wrote one?
[06:09] <jayeola_afk> Se7h: df -h
[06:09] <nate> wasabi: Red Hat have one, one would think it would be trivial to port across to Debian
[06:09] <jayeola_afk> and mount -l
[06:10] <nate> and in the Fedora world such a tool is the very first thing you look at after installing
[06:10] <wm_eddie> [rain] : You could do it if you wanted to but it's not really that hard to edit text files.
[06:10] <nate> which surprises me that it's not there
[06:10] <[rain] > phr0stbyte: oh joy. I haven't touched a kernel config in years. about time I guess :)
[06:10] <wm_eddie> oops I didn't main rain I meant nate
[06:10] <[rain] > wm_eddie: I could probably do it too ;)
[06:10] <wm_eddie> [rain] : you could try booting with apm=on
[06:11] <phr0stbyte> I got all my RAM reading now....
[06:11] <neighborlee> k dunno why but mplayer is borked here...totem-xine works fine for my dvd player it seems...I checked bugzilla but I found nothing for mplayer so I guess i'd better file one ;-) ( unless someone knows something about this that Idont?)
[06:11] <nate> there's no chkconfig either
[06:12] <nate> how can one admin SysV init without a chkconfig?
[06:12] <wasabi> huh?
[06:12] <wasabi> update-rc.d
[06:12] <jh|home> move them manually
[06:12] <wasabi> or make symlinks
[06:12] <nate> oww
[06:12] <nate> that's pretty primitive
[06:12] <wm_eddie> nate: or pretty advanced...
[06:12] <jh|home> heheh
[06:12] <nate> what's advanced about having to do that
[06:12] <nate> I can do that in Red Hat if I want to
[06:13] <nate> but chkconfig makes it a bit simpler to avoid shooting oneself in foot
[06:13] <wasabi> you aim at your feet?
[06:13] <wm_eddie> I aim at my head
[06:13] <nate> okay
[06:13] <nate> let me start again
[06:13] <nate> what is the Preferred Standard Debian Way of getting a list of what services are currently active and running for one's runlevel?
[06:13] <jh|home> a small perl script could do chkconfig's job too
[06:14] <nate> yes. Is such a small perl script provided?
[06:14] <wasabi> nate, look in /etc/rc*
[06:14] <jh|home> look in your runlevel directory
[06:14] <nate> hmm
[06:14] <nate> does that show the xinetd services also?
[06:14] <wm_eddie> nate: I'm sure there's something in universe that can guify that
[06:14] <wasabi> or write a nice program and share it all with us
[06:14] <jh|home> man, we want everything these days
[06:14] <wasabi> no. xinet != sysv init
[06:14] <nate> yes
[06:14] <wasabi> no joke!
[06:14] <nate> however, chkconfig also shows xinetd services
[06:14] <wasabi> you could use gst
[06:14] <nate> this is why such a program is a very useful thing
[06:14] <wasabi> g-s-t
[06:14] <wasabi> but i dislike it quite a bit
[06:14] <wm_eddie> nate: have you tried apt-get install chkconfig?
[06:14] <nate> and has been around for years in Red Hat
[06:14] <q2> Wow, this is my first day of using Ubuntu, AND I FUCKING LOVE THIS SHIT!
[06:15] <smeggy> As do I.
[06:15] <wm_eddie> q2: I'm glad you've seen the light.
[06:15] <q2> I love Debian based Distros
[06:15] <jh|home> hrmm
[06:15] <jh|home> wm_eddie, he just called it shit
[06:15] <nate> wm_eddie: could not find package chkconfig
[06:15] <jh|home> hehe
[06:15] <jh|home> :)
[06:15] <q2> Ubuntu, SuSe, And Libranet are my favorite!
[06:15] <wasabi> chkconfig is a redhat tool
[06:15] <smeggy> Suse isn't Debian based ;)
[06:15] <wm_eddie> nate: well at least we tried :)
[06:15] <q2> i know
[06:15] <q2> i still love it
[06:15] <[rain] > "No APM support in kernel"
[06:15] <nate> Redhat does not mean not-open-source
[06:16] <jayeola_afk> is there an ascii art app?
[06:16] <nate> so, let me get this straight
[06:16] <wasabi> nate then port it
[06:16] <q2> its blackjack time
[06:16] <nate> the normal, preferred, Debian way is to manually hack the rc*.d symlinks?
[06:16] <nate> this is what people do?
[06:16] <wm_eddie> nate: what is it you want to do anyway?
[06:16] <phr0stbyte> DVD is playing nicely with MPlayer...
[06:16] <jh|home> thats what i do
[06:16] <nate> wm_eddie I want to find out what services are active
[06:16] <jh|home> its not hard
[06:16] <nate> so as to know what I am vulnerable to
[06:16] <wm_eddie> nate: I haven't really ever messed with any of that.
[06:17] <wasabi> nate, no, update-rc.d
[06:17] <jh|home> in your rc.* directory they are labeled with an S in your init default
[06:17] <nate> what does update-rc.d do?
[06:17] <nate> is that the Debian equivalent of chkconfig?
[06:17] <jh|home> thats the possible service that could be running...but your best off just doing ps aux and see what service are active..
[06:17] <wasabi> nate, not really, try it
[06:18] <nate> hmm
[06:18] <nate> that's better, yes
[06:18] <wasabi> i'd question why you had a service installed you didn't want running
[06:18] <nate> looks like it can do everything except list currently running services
[06:18] <nate> wasabi: because sometimes you don't want to delete all your installation files just to disable a service
[06:18] <nate> also because I don't know what Ubuntu has installed by default and I want to sanity-check it
[06:18] <wasabi> nate, then don't.
[06:19] <jh|home> i hope you never run into an old linux install somewhere nate :P
[06:19] <nate> wasabi: er?
[06:19] <wasabi> ps
[06:19] <[rain] > so in other words the kernel is configured without APM support by default in Ubuntu? isn't that rather wierd?
[06:19] <jh|home> "boss i know this is a legacy system but i cant secure it because i dont have chkconfig to see what services are running" :P
[06:19] <nate> in that case I would ask why someone was running a system more than five years old, if it were Linux
[06:20] <wm_eddie> [rain] : Because acpi is the new thing.  But people like me who use old cards have to switch to 2.4 :(
[06:20] <wasabi> becuase it worked
[06:20] <wasabi> and never stopped working
[06:20] <jh|home> plenty of reasons
[06:20] <wasabi> welcome to the real world
[06:20] <jh|home> software is one
[06:20] <nate> meh, you Debian people with your supported-forever distributions. :)
[06:20] <nate> in the Redhat world we get our security updates pulled after 18 months and we PAY for that priviledge
[06:21] <wasabi> heh
[06:21] <nate> hence why I am switching away from Fedora. I just miss my creature comforts
[06:21] <wasabi> sounds like a wastge of jmoney
[06:21] <jh|home> security updates is a state of mind, right not the current sudo package in fc2 is vulnerable
[06:21] <wasabi> im sure ubuntu wants all those t hings
[06:21] <wasabi> it's just new.
[06:21] <jh|home> not/now
[06:21] <wasabi> and based on debian, which doesn't want all those things
[06:21] <nate> yeah, I'm just trying to find out how debian people survive
[06:21] <[rain] > nate: why would I buy a new system if the current one works?
[06:21] <nate> presumably there are equivalent tools just under different names
[06:21] <wm_eddie> nate: I'm asking around.
[06:22] <wasabi> nate, not really.
[06:22] <wasabi> nate we configure most stuff in the config files
[06:22] <wasabi> the tools we do have, are non-debian specific
[06:22] <wasabi> such as g-s-t
[06:22] <wasabi> and webmin
[06:22] <nate> chkconfig exists under both redhat and suse
[06:23] <wasabi> then port it
[06:23] <wasabi> and maintain it
[06:23] <wasabi> because nobody else wants to
[06:23] <nate> yeah, I'm just wondering why nobody else has wanted to
[06:23] <jh|home> damn right
[06:23] <nate> there's probably a reason
[06:23] <wasabi> because it serves no purpose
[06:23] <nate> ...
[06:23] <wasabi> ie waste of time.
[06:23] <jh|home> because its not interesting enough to waste energy on IMO
[06:23] <jh|home> there are plenty better things to work on
[06:24] <jh|home> like figuring out why llvm is not compiling correctly on my amd64..
[06:24] <jh|home> >_<;
[06:24] <wasabi> not don't get me wrong man
[06:24] <nate> interesting
[06:24] <wasabi> i want cool utilities like that
[06:24] <wasabi> but i'd rather for instance have a better init system for
[06:24] <wasabi> first
[06:24] <jh|home> wasabi, admit it..its not _that_ cool..
[06:24] <jh|home> hehe
[06:24] <wasabi> i hate sysv init. =(
[06:24] <nate> this is more in the 'basic essential' rather than 'cool' box IMO
[06:24] <wasabi> i like gentoo's. i'd still it if I could.
[06:24] <nate> ie, I consider it part of a modern SysV system
[06:24] <wasabi> steal
[06:24] <Se7h> jayeola_afk sorry coulnd't get you there?
[06:24] <Se7h> df ?
[06:24] <jh|home> i actually like sysv init
[06:24] <wasabi> it's not
[06:24] <wasabi> chkconfig is redhat
[06:25] <wasabi> nothing to do with sysv
[06:25] <wasabi> sysv is the /etc/init.d and /etc/rc.d* LAYOUT
[06:25] <Mojo_Jojo> Hi, can someone tell me how to add java to my path so I can install my java apps :D
[06:25] <wasabi> read th faq
[06:25] <jayeola_afk> Se7h: are you talking about that url i pasted?
[06:25] <Se7h> hm...maybe
[06:26] <jayeola_afk> oh sorry, 'df -h' shows u disk usage space
[06:26] <Se7h> i coulnd't understand what it was
[06:26] <wm_eddie> Mojo_Jojo: temporarily export PATH=$PATH:/path/to/java/bin
[06:26] <jayeola_afk> and 'mount -l' shows u all filesystems moumnted right now
[06:26] <Se7h> LOL
[06:26] <Se7h> that path triky trick
[06:26] <Se7h> gave me a pain in the ass
[06:26] <Mojo_Jojo> wm_eddie, how can I make it not temp?
[06:26] <jayeola_afk> ?
[06:27] <nate> hmm. I guess the equivalents for debian would be update-rc.d to change services and 'cat /etc/rc5.d' to list
[06:27] <Se7h> df -h
[06:27] <Se7h> k
[06:27] <Se7h> ty
[06:27] <jayeola_afk> try it
[06:27] <jayeola_afk> tell me what u see
[06:27] <jayeola_afk> there are a few simple ones....
[06:27] <nate> no easy way to see all in one hit what runlevels each service is set to, but since a desktop system only deals with runlevel 5 I guess that's sort of acceptable
[06:27] <wasabi> nate, try g-s-t
[06:27] <wasabi> gnome-system-tools
[06:28] <Se7h> jayeola_afk but i want to see my /hdx partitions (windows)
[06:28] <jayeola_afk> mount -l i think
[06:28] <jayeola_afk> mount -l
[06:28] <jayeola_afk> try it
[06:28] <jayeola_afk> tell me what u see
[06:28] <nate> is gnome-system-tools installed by default in Ubuntu?
[06:29] <Se7h> that returns the fstab
[06:29] <wasabi> dunno
[06:29] <Se7h> lol
[06:29] <nate> hmm, I appear to have a 'ppp' service
[06:29] <nate> wonder what that is
[06:29] <nate> can't be a ppp server, surely?
[06:30] <nate> must be some kind of dynamic ppp dialer I guess
[06:30] <jayeola_afk> Se7h: try 'man -k mount'
[06:31] <jayeola_afk> that should list all the commands related to 'mount'
[06:31] <jayeola_afk> i have a listing called.....
[06:31] <wm_eddie> hmm, I can't remember how I permanently added java to my path.
[06:31] <jayeola_afk> mmount               (1)  - mount an MSDOS disk
[06:31] <jayeola_afk> and there's a few more
[06:32] <wm_eddie> nate: there's a KDE app called ksysv I think as well.
[06:32] <jayeola_afk> aha. Se7h try also 'man -k msdos'
[06:33] <goatboy> nate: gnome-system-tools is in the default install, but the runlevels tool isn't.
[06:33] <nate> hmm
[06:33] <Se7h> ok
[06:33] <Se7h> but i want a simple think
[06:33] <nate> gnome-system-tools in ubuntu does not seem to have a services manager
[06:33] <Se7h> that is to know my win partitions
[06:33] <Se7h> lol
[06:33] <Se7h> cant remember what command it was...
[06:34] <nate> maybe they decided making services visible would complicate things
[06:34] <goatboy> nate: it's disabled by default upstream.
[06:34] <nate> oh, ah
[06:34] <nate> interesting
[06:34] <nate> so that's a Debian policy decision?
[06:34] <jayeola_afk> Se7h: di you try 'man -k mount' and man -k msdos?
[06:34] <nate> not a Ubuntu one?
[06:34] <Se7h> jayeola_afk yeah
[06:34] <jayeola_afk> and...
[06:34] <goatboy> upstream as in from gnome.org.
[06:35] <q2> i have a problem
[06:35] <nate> curiouser and curiouser
[06:35] <q2> I dont know what my root password is
[06:35] <q2> wtf?
[06:35] <wm_eddie> q2: there is none
[06:35] <q2> i dont think i ever configured one
[06:35] <nate> Ubuntu uses sudo rather than root
[06:35] <wm_eddie> use sudo
[06:35] <q2> kk
[06:35] <jh|home> type it here we will let you know if it sounds familiar
[06:35] <q2> thanks alot
[06:35] <nate> so when it asks for your password use your own one
[06:36] <q2> thanks
[06:37] <q2> it works
[06:38] <jayeola_afk> if u must be root try 'sudo su -'
[06:38] <jayeola_afk> and u become root!
[06:38] <q2> it works
[06:38] <q2> YAY!
[06:38] <q2> Ubuntu is coool
[06:38] <nate> that's a feature I like quite a bit
[06:39] <wm_eddie> at first it was strange, but now I use sudo all the time.
[06:42] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: How can I get my other 80GB HDD usable from the time of boot?
[06:42] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: adding it to fstab?
[06:43] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: Its there, but it seems regular users cannot write to it....
[06:43] <nate> hmm, someone else on the mailing list asking why the g-s-t runlevel tool isn't included
[06:43] <nate> glad I'm not the only one who found that odd
[06:43] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie: not sure how to do that...\
[06:44] <wm_eddie> nate < piman> You should manage it with update-rc.d, and run them with
[06:44] <wm_eddie>                invoke-rc.d.
[06:44] <nate> any idea what the rationale was for GNOME desupporting it?
[06:44] <wm_eddie> sorry about the strange whitespace.
[06:45] <wasabi> "de"supporting?
[06:46] <cef> firstly, ubuntu uses the debian setup, which doesn't use the usual chkconfig and the like tools which the g-s-t runlevel tool supports
[06:47] <cef> secondly, there isn't anywhere as much distinction between runlevels on debian as there is in redhat. ie: there is no 'don't run X' runlevel.
[06:47] <phr0stbyte> wm_eeddie:
[06:47] <phr0stbyte> /dev/hda2       /               reiserfs defaults        0       1
[06:47] <phr0stbyte> /dev/hda5       /home           reiserfs defaults        0       2
[06:47] <phr0stbyte> /dev/hdb5       /warehouse      reiserfs defaults        0       2
[06:47] <nate> cef: ah, really? Interesting.
[06:48] <nate> no runlevel 3?
[06:48] <phr0stbyte> - /warehouse is not user writable for some reason
[06:48] <cef> debian usually defaults to runlevel 2 for everything
[06:48] <nate> oops
[06:48] <cef> 3, 4 & 5 are all copies of runlevel 2
[06:48] <nate> so me doing 'cat /etc/rc5.d' to check for running services would be a mistake?
[06:49] <wm_eddie> phr0stbyte: add user and auto to the options
[06:49] <cef> they're only there so you can set up custom runlevels 'if you wish'
[06:49] <wasabi> um
[06:49] <wasabi> duh
[06:49] <wasabi> since cat doesn't do that
[06:49] <Se7h> i can i erase a directory that's not empty ?
[06:49] <cef> nate: yeah.. look in /etc/rcS.d, then /etc/rc2.d
[06:49] <cef> nate: /etc/rcS.d has the startup stuff, which is always run
[06:50] <nate> I suppose that's simpler
[06:50] <cef> nate: it's a very powerful setup.. moreso than rh's usually.. but the tools do need an overhaul
[06:51] <wm_eddie> cef: it wouldn't be too hard to make them would it?
[06:52] <cef> wm_eddie: the tools? they're all scripts usually.. but it's basically that no one has wanted to touch them 'cos they work'
[06:53] <wm_eddie> But are there any good GUI front ends?
[06:53] <nate> yeah, it's just a matter of learning the little differences
[06:54] <hazmat> any java for for ppc around?
[06:54] <nate> I'm relieved to find out Debian has SysV. Last time I looked at it I thought it didn't, but that was several years ago
[06:54] <cef> wm_eddie: ahh no idea.. I've mainly done it via the cli.. things will be a lot better for hoary (next release)
[06:55] <nate> and the Ubuntu philosophy seems to be that everything should just work and be secure by default, which I think is a good idea
[06:55] <Se7h> erg
[06:55] <cef> that's the plan
[06:55] <Se7h> im getting error s on java
[06:55] <Se7h> :|
[06:55] <nate> if I could only work out why it is so slow to start up on my machine I would be very happy
[06:55] <cef> less things running as root, less things running that don't need to be
[06:55] <chutwig> because it's java, what more do you need to know
[06:55] <jayeola_afk> java is shyte
[06:55] <nate> it's not RAM and it's not CPU, but something is making it take over 5 minutes to get from login to desktop
[06:56] <cef> Se7h: web or local?
[06:56] <Se7h> local
[06:56] <cef> Se7h: so you're trying to write/run a locla java app?
[06:56] <nate> now I just need to learn how to understand the .deb format and I will be set
[06:56] <wm_eddie> ftp://ftp.tux.org/pub/java/JDK-1.3.1/
[06:56] <wm_eddie> ppc
[06:56] <cef> nate: what sort of machine?
[06:57] <calc> nate: read debian policy and debhelper manpages, etc
[06:57] <Se7h> cef y, that's it
[06:57] <Se7h> Invocation of this Java Application has caused an InvocationTargetException.
[06:57] <cef> hrm, I need breakfast
[06:57] <hazmat> wm_eddie, thks
[06:58] <jayeola_afk> i need sleep
[06:58] <cef> jayeola_afk: it's 3pm in the afternoon.. I only just got up.. *grin*
[06:58] <jayeola_afk> 06:02 here
[06:58] <cef> heh.. well then, you'll be getting up about the same sort of time as me.. *grin*
[06:58] <nate> hmm. Should one use apt-get or aptitude nowadays?
[06:59] <cef> apt-get is a great tool, but a lot of people only need aptitude
[06:59] <jh|home> synaptic is cool too
[06:59] <cef> nate: it comes down to personal preference usually
[06:59] <wm_eddie> nate: People say that we shouldn't be using apt-get as our front-end.
[07:00] <Se7h> how do i delete an intire directory ?
[07:00] <cef> calc: heh
[07:00] <Se7h> wich isn't empty
[07:00] <wm_eddie> we should be using dselect/aptitude/synaptic
[07:00] <wm_eddie> Se7h: rm -rf dir/
[07:00] <wm_eddie> careful with that one though.
[07:00] <nate> cef: Desktop
[07:00] <calc> apt-get has issues with resolving problems so its usually better to use a package manager like dselect/aptitude/synaptic like wm_eddie mentioned
[07:00] <Se7h> rf
[07:00] <Se7h> ty
[07:01] <calc> i didn't like how aptitude works for sorting so just use dselect instead
[07:01] <wm_eddie> Se7h: or cd dir/ && rm -f * && cd .. && rmdir dir/ :p
[07:01] <nate> what tool does one usually use to a) see if a package is installed and b) what files it provides?
[07:01] <calc> fpkh
[07:01] <calc> er dpkg
[07:01] <nate> I found 'dpkg-query', is that the best one to use?
[07:02] <calc> dpkg -L foo and dpkg -l
[07:02] <wm_eddie> doesn't synaptic show you that info too?
[07:02] <calc> or apt-file for things not already installed
[07:02] <nate> maybe but Synaptic hurts my brane to try to understand
[07:02] <calc> wm_eddie: no idea never used synaptic
[07:02] <nate> its interface is pretty but very very busy
[07:03] <jayeola_afk> night/moring chaps
[07:03] <nate> hmm, next question
[07:03] <wm_eddie> Damn, It's already one.
[07:03] <nate> I notice Postfix is installed, but I've never used a mail server so far
[07:04] <wm_eddie> I told myself I'd make a couple of random GTK# apps today.
[07:04] <nate> When I configure Evolution, is the recommended way to point it at the local Postfix or just let it fetch mail itself?
[07:04] <q2> Whats a good system monitor?? one that can be transparent?????
[07:04] <Se7h> just to confirm
[07:04] <Se7h> unpack java bin
[07:04] <wm_eddie> q2: top in a gnome-terminal :p
[07:05] <Se7h> copy it to usr/local/lib
[07:05] <Se7h> and export path
[07:05] <Se7h> right?
[07:05] <wm_eddie> Se7h: Symlinking is better I think
[07:05] <Se7h> ls -s ?
[07:05] <crimsun> ln -s
[07:06] <Se7h> ln
[07:06] <Se7h> y
[07:06] <wm_eddie> ln -s /path/to/original /path/to/symlink
[07:06] <q2> WHATS A GOOD DOCKED SYSTEM MONITOR THAT CAN BE TRANSPARENT????????
[07:06] <wm_eddie> or I just cd into where I want it and do ln -s /path/to/original .
[07:06] <wm_eddie> q2: top in a gnome-terminal!!!!
[07:06] <nate> transparent, huh?
[07:06] <wm_eddie> oh docked...
[07:07] <nate> I like ones that plug into the gnome-panel myself
[07:07] <q2> like on the side of the screen
[07:07] <q2> or translucent, whichever is seethrough
[07:07] <wm_eddie> q2: GKrellm2 is a good app for that stuff
[07:07] <wm_eddie> not really a dock, but check it out. You'll like it.
[07:07] <nate> don't much care for transparent widgets myself, they distract me from seeing either what's underneath or what's on top. But that's me, I'm old-fashioned
[07:07] <wm_eddie> There's about a million and a half skins for it.
[07:08] <q2> I heard good things about GKrellm
[07:08] <wm_eddie> q2: I love it. It's like a dashboard for my computer.
[07:09] <wm_eddie> not to be confused with "Dashboard" which is another set of awesomeness altogether.
[07:09] <crimsun> i just use top.
[07:10] <wm_eddie> top sometimes makes 3d things strange
[07:10] <Se7h> damn
[07:10] <Se7h> dam errors...
[07:10] <Se7h> Stack Trace:
[07:10] <Se7h> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: javax/swing/JWindow
[07:10] <Se7h>    at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke0 (Method.java)
[07:10] <Se7h> for ie
[07:15] <_kim> well
[07:15] <_kim> here goes
[07:15] <_kim> going to install mythtv on ubuntu :)
[07:16] <wm_eddie> good luck with that
[07:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> mainly because I already have it installed and why change what works already
[07:17] <Se7h> can anyone give a hand here with java?
[07:17] <crimsun> sure
[07:17] <Hrdwr_BoB> it's in the FAQ
[07:17] <crimsun> what's up?
[07:18] <wm_eddie> I was looking in the FAQ for Java, I couldn't find anything but I swear that I saw something before...
[07:19] <crimsun> i'm using Tiger.
[07:19] <q2> whats with Gkrellm being in the taskbar
[07:19] <q2> i dont like that
[07:19] <wm_eddie> q2: you can change that
[07:19] <crimsun> fiddle w/ the Preferences.
[07:19] <wm_eddie> right click on it.
[07:19] <wm_eddie> it can do alot
[07:19] <q2> i see
[07:20] <q2> where do i set it too not be on the taskbar
[07:20] <wm_eddie> I wish there was a "Current GTK theme" theme for GTKrellM
[07:20] <q2> i found it
[07:22] <Se7h> im reading some foruns...none helping till now..
[07:23] <crimsun> Se7h: what are your objectives regarding Java?
[07:24] <crimsun> Se7h: what have you done thus far?
[07:24] <Se7h> running java apps
[07:24] <crimsun> do you plan to develop any Java code yourself?
[07:24] <Se7h> ive installed this before with no problem
[07:24] <Se7h> i dont get why this now
[07:24] <Se7h> crimsun no
[07:24] <Se7h> at least for now
[07:25] <crimsun> Se7h: ok. what have you done thus far?
[07:26] <q2> anyone know of a transparent gkrellm theme???
[07:27] <crimsun> q2: there are quite a few
[07:27] <q2> where can i ubtain these?
[07:27] <crimsun> (of course meaning pseudo-transparent)
[07:27] <wm_eddie> q2: Glass Glass-2 Glass-3
[07:27] <crimsun> in the gkrellm skins tarball linked on muhri.net
[07:27] <q2> i would like them
[07:27] <Se7h> crimsun unpacked the bin file
[07:27] <Se7h> a created a ln
[07:27] <crimsun> Se7h: which bin file?
[07:27] <Se7h> j2re
[07:28] <crimsun> sun's? version 1.5.0?
[07:28] <Se7h> 1.4
[07:28] <crimsun> what symlink did you create?
[07:29] <Se7h> hmm
[07:29] <Se7h> w8 just a sec
[07:29] <Se7h> let me just check one thing
[07:29] <crimsun> personally, across both my debian sid machine and my ubuntu machine, i use this:
[07:30] <crimsun> in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/, i have a symlink from /usr/local/jdk1.5.0/jre/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[07:30] <q2> how do i install these themes
[07:30] <crimsun> the same symlink exists in /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins/
[07:30] <crimsun> q2: untar them in ~/.gkrellm2/themes
[07:30] <crimsun> in ~/.gkrellm2/themes/
[07:31] <q2> kk
[07:34] <Se7h> oh ok
[07:34] <Se7h> now i have another kind of prob
[07:35] <Se7h> OOPS, you don't seem to have a valid JRE [java = SableVM]
[07:35] <Se7h> You need to upgrade to JRE 1.4.x or newer from http://java.sun.com
[07:35] <crimsun> java -version
[07:35] <crimsun> i'm using sun's jdk 1.5.0
[07:36] <Se7h> SableVM version 1.1.5
[07:36] <Se7h> o.0
[07:36] <wm_eddie> That's a open-source VM
[07:36] <wm_eddie> you'll need GNU Classpath if you want to run java applications.
[07:36] <Se7h> how can i tell ubuntu about the newer version on the sys ?
[07:36] <wm_eddie> uninstall the previous one?
[07:37] <crimsun> Se7h: the newer version of what?
[07:37] <Se7h> the one thing confusing me
[07:37] <Se7h> is just
[07:37] <crimsun> Se7h: what else did you install?
[07:37] <Se7h> last time
[07:37] <Se7h> i just unpacked the bin
[07:37] <Se7h> created the ln
[07:37] <Se7h> exportd path
[07:37] <Se7h> and i think that was it
[07:37] <crimsun> did you grab the bin from Sun?
[07:38] <Se7h> crimsun of java i guess
[07:38] <Se7h> yeah
[07:38] <wm_eddie> Se7h: I think you installed SableVM from before.
[07:38] <wm_eddie> using apt maybe
[07:38] <Se7h> j2re
[07:38] <crimsun> Se7h: where did you unpack it, /usr/local/ ?
[07:38] <Se7h> well now its at /home
[07:38] <Se7h> lol
[07:39] <crimsun> well, if you do that, only your $USER will have access to it
[07:39] <crimsun> (if you wish to do it sanely, that is)
[07:39] <Se7h> hmm
[07:40] <Se7h> but wont ln do the job?
[07:40] <crimsun> what did you ln?
[07:40] <Se7h> from home to usr local
[07:40] <crimsun> bad idea
[07:41] <wm_eddie> Se7h: next time run installers as root
[07:41] <wm_eddie> proprietary software is such a pain to install seriously...
[07:41] <crimsun> it's actually not
[07:41] <crimsun> takes about one minute.
[07:41] <Se7h> lol
[07:41] <Se7h> so
[07:41] <wm_eddie> apt-get install java would take less
[07:41] <Se7h> what do i do now?
[07:41] <wm_eddie> I think
[07:41] <wm_eddie> I don't know, apt spoiled me.
[07:41] <crimsun> Se7h: delete the symlink in /usr/local/ that you created
[07:42] <Se7h> k
[07:42] <Se7h> w8
[07:42] <crimsun> Se7h: cd /usr/local
[07:42] <crimsun> Se7h: sudo /path/to/sun's_jre
[07:43] <Se7h> btw
[07:43] <crimsun> i hope it can decipher, too, wm_eddie ;)
[07:43] <Se7h> how do i delte it?
[07:43] <Se7h> rm ?
[07:43] <Se7h> man i feel dumb
[07:43] <crimsun> Se7h: yes.
[07:43] <Se7h> lol
[07:43] <Se7h> k
[07:44] <wm_eddie> crimsun: yeah, it's a simple addition encryption program
[07:44] <wm_eddie> so the key would be the negative number of the key.
[07:44] <wm_eddie> man, I've been able to break monodevelop twice now.
[07:44] <wm_eddie> I"m on a roll!
[07:44] <Se7h> ok
[07:44] <Se7h> deleted
[07:45] <Se7h> im on usrlocal
[07:45] <Se7h> what now??
[07:45] <crimsun> 01:42 < crimsun> Se7h: sudo /path/to/sun's_jre
[07:45] <Se7h> sudo ?
[07:45] <crimsun> yes
[07:45] <Se7h> i mean...
[07:45] <Se7h> sudo /home?
[07:45] <crimsun> make sure the bin is marked executable
[07:45] <crimsun> no
[07:45] <Se7h> oh
[07:45] <Se7h> yes it is
[07:45] <crimsun> sudo ~/jre...bin
[07:45] <crimsun> substitute the actual filename
[07:46] <Se7h> wha ?
[07:46] <Se7h> ok
[07:46] <Se7h> running bin...
[07:46] <crimsun> 'lo Atticus
[07:47] <Atticus> hi crimsun
[07:47] <Se7h> done
[07:48] <crimsun> Se7h: ok, now you need to create the symlinks, and then you need to correct the $PATH
[07:48] <Se7h> ok...symlinks
[07:48] <crimsun> Se7h: the first thing you need to do is to find the path of the java plugin
[07:48] <Se7h> proceed
[07:49] <Se7h> anda...where is it ?
[07:49] <Se7h> *and
[07:49] <crimsun> it resides under the jre directory
[07:49] <crimsun> you need to look for it
[07:49] <crimsun> for my installation, it's /usr/local/jdk1.5.0/jre/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[07:49] <crimsun> for yours, i'm guessing it's going to be similar
[07:49] <Se7h> seth@devil /usr/local $ ls j2re1.4.2_05/plugin/
[07:49] <Se7h> desktop  i386
[07:49] <Se7h> is that it ?
[07:50] <Se7h> oh
[07:50] <Se7h> it is
[07:50] <crimsun> no, it will be /usr/local/j2re1.4.2_05/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[07:50] <crimsun> find it?
[07:50] <Se7h>  j2re1.4.2_05/plugin/i386/ns610/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[07:50] <Se7h> got it
[07:51] <crimsun> kk
[07:51] <crimsun> now:
[07:51] <crimsun> with which browsers do you plan to use the java plugin?
[07:51] <Se7h> firefox
[07:52] <crimsun> ok
[07:52] <crimsun> then you need to create the appropriate symlink for mozilla-firefox/plugins
[07:52] <crimsun> cd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins
[07:53] <crimsun> sudo ln -s ../../../local/j2re1.4.2_05/plugin/i386/ns610/libjavaplugin_oji.so .
[07:53] <cef> crimsun: sheesh! we've gotta automate that somehow..
[07:54] <crimsun> cef: agreed, it would be easier.
[07:54] <Se7h> ln: `./libjavaplugin_oji.so': File exists
[07:54] <crimsun> granted, i've done this for as long as sun has made a plugin available.
[07:54] <crimsun> Se7h: ln -sf   then
[07:54] <Se7h> k
[07:54] <Se7h> done
[07:55] <crimsun> ok, and now where did you set the $PATH ?
[07:55] <Se7h> well
[07:55] <Se7h> think is set to /usr/local/bin/....
[07:55] <crimsun> no
[07:55] <cef> crimsun: yeah.. actually need a little gui program to maintain it all, so you can switch between different JRE's and set up different browsers
[07:56] <crimsun> Se7h: set it in /etc/bash.bashrc
[07:56] <crimsun> sudo vi /etc/bash.bashrc
[07:56] <Se7h> vi?
[07:56] <crimsun> or another $EDITOR
[07:56] <crimsun> doesn't really matter
[07:57] <crimsun> you simply need to edit it.
[07:57] <Se7h> im there
[07:57] <Se7h> now need to add a line righjt?
[07:58] <crimsun> Se7h: yep
[07:59] <subterrific> i hate to break it to you now, but there is a FAQ on this
[07:59] <subterrific> and it is much easier than what you're doing
[07:59] <crimsun> indeed there is.
[08:00] <subterrific> there is even an apt source that will let you install java with a single command
[08:00] <subterrific> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-16.3469703387/view?searchterm=java
[08:01] <Se7h> subterrific i did that tut
[08:01] <Se7h> got all screwd up as u can see
[08:01] <Se7h> lol
[08:01] <subterrific> why didn't you use the apt repos?
[08:02] <Se7h> i did
[08:02] <Se7h> but no vm was there
[08:02] <Se7h> i think
[08:02] <crimsun> Se7h: i'm apologize, the file to edit is /etc/profile, not /etc/bash.bashrc
[08:02] <Se7h> crimsun keep going
[08:03] <Se7h> crimsun im there
[08:03] <subterrific> Se7h: then you didn't follow the instructions correctly because i did it on 3 machines :\
[08:03] <cef> subterrific: how long ago?
[08:03] <crimsun> Se7h: insert the jre path so it reads thusly:
[08:03] <subterrific> last week
[08:04] <subterrific> i used the latest jre 1.5 rc from sun
[08:04] <crimsun> PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/j2re1.4.2_05/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games"
[08:04] <cef> hrm, shouldn't be any problems unless there is an issue with the repository
[08:04] <cef> subterrific: how'd you find the latest jre?
[08:04] <subterrific> java.com
[08:05] <cef> subterrific: no I meant how'd you find it operational wise?
[08:05] <cef> as in, how well does it work for you?
[08:05] <Se7h> crimsun done
[08:05] <crimsun> (technically you should set JAVA_HOME=/usr/local/j2re1.4.2_05 and also export that, and set your PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:$JAVA_HOME/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games"
[08:05] <crimsun> )
[08:05] <subterrific> it runs azureus, thats the only java app i use
[08:06] <cef> subterrific: cool.. I should try it with a few things I need to use.. might work a bit better than 1.4, which has issues
[08:06] <subterrific> oh, and ourTunes. i ran that at work
[08:06] <crimsun> 1.5.0 final ("Tiger") is vastly improved over 1.4.x
[08:06] <cef> then again, that's cos the app is only certified for 1.3 and painful under 1.4
[08:07] <Se7h> crimsun done?
[08:07] <crimsun> yep.
[08:07] <crimsun> now login shells will set $PATH correctly.
[08:07] <crimsun> make sure you remove your previous $PATH edit
[08:07] <cef> of course, now he needs to log out, and then log in again
[08:07] <Se7h> i just did the "export" thing
[08:08] <Se7h> well...brb then
[08:08] <cef> I should install ubuntu on my spare laptop drive.. rather than just the desktop
[08:12] <Se7h> erm
[08:13] <Se7h> well
[08:13] <Se7h> OOPS, you don't seem to have a valid JRE [java = SableVM]
[08:13] <Se7h> You need to upgrade to JRE 1.4.x or newer from http://java.sun.com
[08:13] <crimsun> is your shell a login shell?
[08:13] <Se7h> how so ?
[08:13] <crimsun> what terminal emulator are you using, gnome-terminal?
[08:13] <crimsun> xterm?
[08:13] <Se7h> gnome
[08:14] <crimsun> Edit->Current Profile...->Title and Command-> click "Run command as a login shell"
[08:18] <Se7h> in the rterminal ?
[08:19] <crimsun> in gnome-terminal, yes
[08:19] <cef> ok, bbk, time to get serious with my desk...re-arrangement time. ran out of power points.. *8-(
[08:20] <crimsun> i should play more gnome mines.
[08:20] <Se7h> done crimsun
[08:20] <crimsun> Se7h: ok, start a new gnome-terminal
[08:21] <crimsun> Se7h: then echo $PATH and make sure it's there
[08:21] <Se7h> ....
[08:21] <Se7h> /usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/local/j2re1.4.2_05