[14:58] <dholbach> o/
[14:59] <dholbach> o/~
[15:00] <jono> alright
[15:00] <jono> #startmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 25 15:00:56 2011 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
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[15:01] <jono> welcome everyone to the Canonical Community Team meeting
[15:01] <jono> our second IRC meeting!
[15:01] <jono> as usual, we will spin through some round-tables first, and this time I will ask if there are any questions at the end of each roundtable
[15:01] <jono> we will then propose and discuss any agenda items
[15:02] <jono> feel free to chip in and ask questions or make comments
[15:02] <jono> dholbach, want to get this party started?
[15:02] <dholbach> sure
[15:02] <jono> :-)
[15:02] <dholbach> • dev survey: done with report: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/11.10-dev-docs-survey.pdf - wanted to have jono have a second look over it before publishing it
[15:02] <dholbach> • uds: set up blueprints, some still left to file
[15:02] <dholbach> • fixed sponsoring stats "hours in queue" script, unfortunately old data was broken for a while, had to restart with new data
[15:02] <dholbach> • did some sponsoring (with the useful side-benefit to test the above script)
[15:02] <dholbach> • CC handover completed
[15:02] <dholbach> • tried to get hold of Emmet: found out he's ill and taking a break
[15:02] <dholbach> • catch up call with Jono
[15:02] <dholbach> • started estimating required time for projects for 12.04 to better plan
[15:02] <dholbach> • noticed less activity in the ubuntu packaging guide, blogged about it and had 3 merge proposals coming in
[15:02] <dholbach> • weekly dev update
[15:02] <dholbach> • the usual big heaps of this and that
[15:03] <jono> ahh so we made contact with Emmet?
[15:03] <jono> that's good to hear
[15:03] <jono> any questions for dholbach?
[15:04] <dholbach> I got in touch with somebody who did, but yes :)
[15:04] <jono> cool :-)
[15:05] <jono> ok, no questions
[15:05] <jono> dholbach is off the hook
[15:05] <jono> :-)
[15:05] <jono> next up, dpm!
[15:05] <dpm> o/
[15:05] <dpm> * 2 Ubuntu Open Week talks:
[15:06] <dpm> - How to get started translating Ubuntu
[15:06] <dpm> - How to write your first app
[15:06] <dpm> People seemed to get quite excited about the second one, especially when they found out that they had created an app and it was working :)
[15:06] <dpm> * Finished off 12.04 roadmap
[15:06]  * dholbach hugs dpm
[15:06] <dpm> :)
[15:06] <dpm> * Filed all blueprints for UDS
[15:06] <dpm> * Call with skaet and jibel to discuss localized ISOs pre-UDS
[15:07] <dpm> * Started a conversation with chriscoulson, pitti and others to find a solution for Thunderbird translations not being installed automatically in oneiric
[15:07] <jono> what is the current status on the localized ISOs?
[15:07] <dpm> The tools are there, they need wider testing and we need to figure out a policy for publishing the isos
[15:08] <dpm> I filed a blueprint to tackle those at UDS
[15:08] <dpm> and from my testing, the tools are working
[15:08] <jono> awesome!
[15:08] <dpm> OEM tested them too to generate their Chinese ISO,
[15:08] <dpm> but they ended up doing more customizations on top of that
[15:09] <jono> sounds good
[15:09] <dpm> ok, next:
[15:09] <dpm> * Reviewed language pack update schedule for Oneiric (created by TLE)
[15:09] <dpm> * Helped the web design team organizing some translations
[15:09] <dpm> for a part of the website
[15:10] <dpm> (this is not about ubuntu.com becoming translated)
[15:10] <dpm> * Prepared lightning talks and community app developer plans in preparation for the Consumer Software sprint next Thursday
[15:10] <dpm> * Updated the API docs publisher script on developer.ubuntu.com to be more clever guessing the type of document published and be more automatic
[15:10] <dpm> * Could then publish the utouch-qml API documentation as a result of that work
[15:11] <dpm> * Updated the developer.ubuntu.com/api page links and restructured the layout
[15:11] <dpm> I think that was mostly me this week
[15:12] <jono> thanks dpm
[15:12] <jono> so why are Thunderbird translations not being automatically imported?
[15:13] <jono> dpm ^
[15:13] <dpm> jono, for one Launchpad does not support their format, but the main issue seems to be with installing them (we get them from upstream and package them):
[15:13] <dpm> so the current package containing translations
[15:14] <jono> ahhh gotcha
[15:14] <dpm> seems to have a dependency problem
[15:14] <jono> what is the plan to solve the issue?
[15:14] <dpm> we're still talking about it, but it seems that one way to go forward is to update update-manager
[15:14] <dpm> so that
[15:15] <dpm> it explicitly checks for missing language packs when installing Thunderbird
[15:15] <jono> gotcha
[15:15] <jono> thanks dpm
[15:15] <dpm> and then goes and install them
[15:15] <jono> any questions for dpm?
[15:16] <jono> alrighty!
[15:16] <jono> hmm where is Jorge?
[15:17] <jono> I just pinged him
[15:17] <jono> no response
[15:18] <jono> ok I will go next
[15:18] <jono> I had a few days off last week on Thu and Fri
[15:18] <jono> although spent it recording and writing
[15:18] <jono> we have had a few changes recently:
[15:18] <jono>  * Ahmed Kamal resigned last week and Jorge is now taking over his role as Ubuntu Cloud Community Coordinator - I will be backfilling for an Upstream Coordinator - more on this soon. Jorge's focus in this cycle will be on growing a charms community and growing cloud.ubuntu.com
[15:18] <jono> we wish Ahmed the best for the future
[15:19] <jono>  * As mentioned last week, Eric Ward decided his new role was not for him, and I will be recruiting a QA Community Coordinator. More on this soon too.
[15:19] <jono> - Final UDS organizational bits and pieces
[15:19] <jono> getting everyone to finalize their sessions
[15:19] <jono> getting the Community track sessions for our team finalized and registered - everything appears to be in order now
[15:19] <jono> scheduling a Qt Q+A session
[15:19] <jono> Leadership Mini Conf scheduled and ready to roll
[15:19] <jono>  - been talking with the design team about increased community participation via 'experience' design and development
[15:19] <jono> more on this at UDS
[15:20] <jono> - spent some time this weekend summarizing the results of the Ubuntu Community Survey into the final report
[15:20] <jono> published the report on Sunday night, and response is generally very positive - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-results/
[15:20] <jono> I have started blogging each day about different aspects of the report - did the first one yesterday on Leadership - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community
[15:20] <jono> oops
[15:20] <jono> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-next-steps-leadership/
[15:20] <jono> - joined the Ubuntu Leadership Meeting and asked if they can help us with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity - the team is going to be able to help generate more content.
[15:20] <jbicha> I appreciate the work done on the Community Survey!
[15:21] <jono> thanks jbicha!
[15:21] <jono> I think it is really going to help us fix some of these things
[15:21] <jono> thanks to akgraner, Darkwing, and others who are going to help out with BuildingCommunity
[15:21] <jono> - Synced up with Randall Ross - discussed growing leadership capacity in the community
[15:22] <jono> I love Randall
[15:22] <jono> - published the Ubuntu Accomplishments Spec at http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/25/ubuntu-accomplishments-system-spec/ and registered a blueprint
[15:22] <jono> Met up with Mako last night for coffee, was great to catch up
[15:22] <alourie> it was awesome!
[15:22] <jono> alourie, :-)
[15:22] <jono> you are awesome, my friend :-)
[15:22] <jono> I am taking off to Orlando today and will around a little less on IRC over the next few weeks
[15:22] <dholbach> question about the accomplishments spec: shall I add a subpage with the ideas for accomplishments I put together together with the QA team?
[15:23] <jono> dholbach, yeah, I wanted to discuss this as an agenda itme
[15:23] <jono> item
[15:23] <jono> that would be great
[15:23] <dholbach> adding a todo item
[15:23] <jono> thanks dholbach
[15:23] <jono> lets discuss this more in a few mins
[15:23]  * dholbach nods
[15:23] <jono> so any questions for me about these items?
[15:23] <alourie> jono: me ?? how so? :-)
[15:23] <rrnwexec> @jono: thanks for the love. likewise <3
[15:23] <meetingology> rrnwexec: Error: "jono:" is not a valid command.
[15:24]  * jono hugs rrnwexec
[15:24] <dholbach> haha :)
[15:24]  * dholbach hugs meetingology
[15:24] <jono> jono is never a valid command
[15:24] <jono> :-)
[15:24] <rrnwexec> jono: thanks for the love. likewise <3  (yes, he's not a command, yet)
[15:24] <alourie> I have question about accomplishments
[15:24] <dpm> jono, I do have a question:
[15:24] <dpm> I'll let alourie go first
[15:24] <jono> alourie, can you hold for a sec, I will raise an agenda item for that in a few mins
[15:24] <jono> dpm, shoot
[15:24] <dpm> ok
[15:25] <dpm> I need to schedule 2 Qt sessions as per the conversations with the Nokia Qt team:
[15:25] <dpm> - Qt Roadmap
[15:25] <alourie> sure
[15:25] <dpm> - Qt integration with Ubuntu tools
[15:25] <dpm> You mentioned you created a blueprint for Qt Q+A
[15:26] <jono> dpm, I didnt create a blueprint yet
[15:26] <jono> I have been talking with Mikko
[15:26] <jono> and it sounds like Mikko wants to do a Q+A
[15:26] <jono> dpm, you look after the other Nokia requested sessions and I will set of Mikko's
[15:27] <dpm> jono, sounds good
[15:27] <dpm> thanks
[15:27] <jono> dpm, oh, my bad
[15:27] <jono> he wants a Qt Roadmap session
[15:27] <jono> so it sounds like he will lead that one
[15:27] <jono> who is leading the integration session?
[15:27] <dpm> jono, I'm assuming Adam Weinrich and the Qt engineers
[15:28] <dpm> I'll schedule the session for them and can help with leading the session
[15:28] <jono> dpm, ok, can you follow up with Adam?
[15:28] <jono> thanks!
[15:28] <dpm> jono, I did already
[15:28] <jono> ok, so a few agenda items
[15:28] <jono> thanks dpm!
[15:29] <jono> first, dpm, dholbach, are your 12.04 blueprints all submitted?
[15:29] <dpm> jono, yes
[15:29] <dholbach> jono, most, I still have a question - can we discuss after the meeting?
[15:30] <jono> dholbach, sure
[15:30] <jono> ok, so next agenda item is the Ubuntu Accomplishments Spec
[15:30] <dholbach> great
[15:30] <jono> alourie, you had a question?
[15:31] <alourie> yes
[15:31] <alourie> I already have ideas around accomplishments
[15:32] <alourie> how can I contribute them?
[15:32] <alourie> and how can I participate?
[15:32] <alourie> (the spec page is immutable, so no comments could be made there)
[15:32] <alourie> oh!
[15:33] <jono> so when we first discussed the idea, we documented a bunch of different types of accomplishments
[15:33] <jono> and I asked dholbach to generate a list
[15:33] <jono> oh it can't be edited
[15:33] <jono> let me check
[15:33] <alourie> sure
[15:33] <alourie> and there's a funny mistake :-)
[15:33] <jono> you should be able to edit it
[15:33] <alourie> according to the current spec, dholbach will get all the trophies :-)
[15:33] <jono> haha
[15:33] <dholbach> well-deserved, if I might add
[15:34] <dholbach> :-P
[15:34] <jono> lol
[15:34] <alourie> sure
[15:34] <jono> dholbach, can you edit the page?
[15:34] <dholbach> hang on
[15:34] <sagaci> the spec looks editable
[15:34] <jono> sagaci, thanks
[15:34] <jono> alourie, so I recommend dholbach lists all the accomplishments we sketched out first
[15:34] <dholbach> yep, confirmed
[15:34] <jono> and then lets you know so you can expand on them
[15:34] <jono> sound good?
[15:35] <dholbach> I'll do that today - let's see how long it takes me to massage them into moinmoin
[15:35] <alourie> it's under the Ubuntu UK flow example
[15:35] <alourie> "... a trophy called Joe S. CoreDeveloper Kudos - 2nd September 2011 and this will appear in Daniel Holbach’s trophy cabinet"...
[15:35] <alourie> dholbach: deserved indeed :-)
[15:35] <jono> thanks dholbach
[15:35] <jono> would be cool to show the dependency chain still
[15:35] <sagaci> alourie: make sure you're logged into the wiki to edit
[15:35] <jono> i.e. this accomplishment is unlocked when this one is completed
[15:35] <alourie> ah...the magic of login
[15:35] <alourie> :-)
[15:35] <jono> so alourie, are you interested in coding this?
[15:36] <jono> dholbach, maybe if you could create a sub-page listing all the accomplishments, and another sub-page for development and project management discussion
[15:37] <dholbach> sure
[15:37] <jono> awesome!
[15:37] <jono> alright
[15:38] <jono> any more business?
[15:38] <dholbach> yep
[15:38] <dholbach> →→→ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay ←←←
[15:38] <jono> ahhh yeah
[15:38] <dholbach> please all raise awareness and participate! :)
[15:38] <jono> I read about this
[15:38] <jono> looks awesome
[15:38] <dholbach> it's awesome
[15:38] <jono> I think this is a *really cool* idea
[15:38] <jono> was great to see bkerensa's post on it on Planet
[15:38] <jono> and next week....UDS! woo!
[15:39] <dholbach> yeah :)
[15:39] <jono> ok, folks, let's  wrap it
[15:39] <jono> thanks for joining us!
[15:39] <jono> #endmeeting
[15:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 25 15:39:08 2011 UTC.
[15:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-25-15.00.moin.txt
[15:39] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[15:39] <alourie> ok then, I'll talk directly do dholbach about the ideas
[15:39] <alourie> is it ok, Daniel?
[15:40] <alourie> jono:  coding maybe
[15:40] <alourie> and everything else too
[15:40] <dholbach> alourie, sure - although I'm probably not the best person to talk to about the infrastructure
[15:41] <alourie> dholbach: no, not infrastracture, the accomplishment scenarios
[15:41] <dholbach> my input was very general back then and mostly consisted in bringing people's ideas for accomplishments into a digestible form
[15:41] <dholbach> ok
[15:41] <alourie> ok
[15:41] <dholbach> I'll let you know when I added the ideas to the wiki
[15:41] <alourie> sure
[15:41] <alourie> leave it open for comments then
[16:00] <smoser> o/
[16:00] <zul> hi
[16:00] <Daviey> o/
[16:01] <Daviey> #startmeeting
[16:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 25 16:01:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is Daviey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> o.
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[16:01] <lynxman> o/
[16:01] <hallyn> \o
[16:02] <Daviey> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:02] <Daviey> ALL: review http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html and make known any other bugs that need to be added to the list.
[16:02] <Daviey> So.. i didn't get much feedback from this item..
[16:03] <Daviey> we'll come back to this
[16:03] <Daviey> #topic smb, jamespage, hggdh to work on triaging bug 790712
[16:04] <Daviey> Did this make any progress?
[16:04] <jamespage> I don't think so
[16:05] <jamespage> (well at least not from me)
[16:05] <Daviey> we'll come back to that then, later on :(
[16:05] <Daviey> #topic utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
[16:05] <Daviey> utlemming isn't present.
[16:06] <Daviey> #topic
[16:06] <Daviey> #topic Precise Development
[16:06] <Daviey> Merge and sync difference is looking good, we seem on target.
[16:06] <Daviey> Specific issues being tracked:
[16:06] <Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
[16:06] <robbiew> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
[16:06] <robbiew> :)
[16:06] <Daviey> Shall we come back to specs?
[16:07] <Daviey> bug 881464, anyone want to handle an MIR?
[16:07] <utlemming> \o
[16:07] <smoser> did utlemming just raise his hand in response to "anyone want to handle an MIR?"
[16:07] <smoser> i think he did.
[16:07] <Daviey> utlemming: Have you handled a MIR before?
[16:08] <utlemming> ah....that's what I get for showing up late to a meeting
[16:08] <zul> Daviey: heh thats on my list for the openstack spec
[16:08]  * Daviey assigns utlemming, if you have any questions - fire them to zul :)
[16:08] <hallyn> if someone is looking for MIRs we have a bunch for spice dependencies :(
[16:08] <smoser> you're bringing donuts next week also.
[16:08] <Daviey> bug 858878 , rbasak - status?
[16:09] <hallyn> and on laundry duty
[16:09] <rbasak> it looks like it'd be a fairly extensive patch, and I found another security issue which I need to check as well. cobbler-web doesn't seem to have been written with security in mind
[16:10] <zul> rbasak: well it is a django app :)
[16:10] <Daviey> rbasak: that might have to be our approach
[16:10] <Daviey> zul: that is crap, django can be secure.
[16:10] <zul> Daviey: joking
[16:10] <rbasak> it seems to be using GET requests with side effects too
[16:10] <Daviey> rbasak: Do you want to take the discussion to upstream?
[16:10] <rbasak> though I need to verify this
[16:10] <rbasak> Daviey: yes
[16:10] <Daviey> cool
[16:11] <hallyn> zul: <ssssh, he ran out of coffee this morning, keep a low profile>
[16:11] <Daviey> jamespage: bug 801494 , we were waiting to see if it was a udev issue - any news that you know of?
[16:11] <RoAkSoAx> is the latest release/checkout/branch from the cobbler repo with these security issues?
[16:11] <jamespage> well the general opinion is that it is
[16:11] <jamespage> but that said I can't actually reproduce anymore
[16:11] <Daviey> jamespage: do you know if the discussion is ongoing?  Are we likely to get a fix for a1?
[16:12] <Daviey> jamespage: Ooo
[16:12] <Daviey> that sounds good.
[16:12] <Daviey> jamespage: can you confirm that you cannot reproduce it this week?
[16:12] <jamespage> yes
[16:12] <Daviey> (difficult question, i know)
[16:12] <Daviey> bug 858883, nobody assigned
[16:13] <Daviey> rbasak: is this one that would be good to include in the discussion upstream?
[16:13] <rbasak> for a general security discussion, yes, although it looks like this one *is* a simple one line patch
[16:13] <Daviey> oh good.
[16:13] <Daviey> rbasak: can you take ownership of that? :)
[16:14] <rbasak> OK
[16:14] <Daviey> bug 862558, no assignee - adam_g, is this something you want?
[16:14] <adam_g> Daviey: yes
[16:14] <adam_g> and the other cobbler-enlist one, too
[16:14] <Daviey> assigned. :)
[16:15] <adam_g> ty sir
[16:15] <Daviey> lynxman: bug 874981, status?
[16:15] <lynxman> Daviey: in progress, activemq is working, just need ot merge, will be done in the next 2 days tops, I'm finishing a whitepaper first that has higher priority from my boss :(
[16:16] <Daviey> rocking! thanks for your help lynxman
[16:16] <lynxman> Daviey: pleased to help :)
[16:16] <Daviey> bug 875818, blocked on MIR team review
[16:16] <Daviey> hallyn: bug 879636, status?
[16:16] <hallyn> working
[16:17] <hallyn> just looking through patches/, otherwise ready to build
[16:17] <Daviey> hallyn: great, uploaded by Friday?
[16:17] <hallyn> yup
[16:17] <Daviey> rocking
[16:17] <Daviey> thanks
[16:17] <hallyn> mp
[16:17] <Daviey> bug 879853 , zul - status?
[16:17] <zul> Daviey: ill fix it up today
[16:18] <Daviey> cool
[16:18] <Daviey> utlemming: bug 870121, is now Fix Released for Precise daily?
[16:18] <utlemming> yes sir
[16:18] <utlemming> the latest images should be fixed
[16:19] <Daviey> groovy, can you flip the status?  Thanks
[16:19] <utlemming> doing it now
[16:19] <Daviey> bug 875262, koolhead17 was working on.. are you here?
[16:19] <koolhead17> Daviey: yes sir
[16:19] <Daviey> (The issue is that sqlite.so is attempted to be loaded by php - but we don't build it anymore)
[16:19] <Daviey> Someone has just posted a work around to include a sqlite.so *sigh*
[16:20] <Daviey> koolhead17: How is the package looking?
[16:20] <koolhead17> Daviey: still compiling :(
[16:20] <Daviey> koolhead17: heh, ok - thanks.. shout for help in #ubuntu-server if you need it.. thanks :)
[16:20] <Daviey> bug 878597, smoser
[16:21] <Daviey> smoser: how is it looking?
[16:21] <Daviey> smoser: are you present?
[16:22] <smoser> i just pushed a branch
[16:22] <smoser> but i think lynxman is merging from debian
[16:22] <smoser> and i would suggest he just merge my branch in his upstream merge.
[16:22] <zul> smoser: merged was done this morning
[16:23] <lynxman> smoser: merged by zul then he got all my 2.6.1 already packagd plugins :)
[16:23] <smoser> oh.
[16:23] <Daviey> does this mean the issue is fixed?
[16:23] <Daviey> Or is smoser's fix needed to be re-based to current archive?
[16:24] <Daviey> lynxman / zul ^^?
[16:24] <zul> Daviey: i think it might need to be rebased
[16:24] <smoser> i'll rebase to current archive and upload
[16:25] <lynxman> Yeah the issue wasn't solved in 2.6.1 debian
[16:25] <Daviey> rocking
[16:25] <Daviey> smoser: can we have that done by EoW?
[16:25] <Daviey> bug 880339, needs a refresh profile - anyone want to tackle that?
[16:26] <smoser> Daviey, for you, we can have it done today.
[16:26] <Daviey> smoser: You rock my world, you know that?
[16:27] <Daviey> (smoser, that is the apparmor issue?)
[16:27] <smoser> i was referring to rabbitmq
[16:27] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: is that something you want to tackle?
[16:28] <Daviey> 10 second rules is acceptance, right?
[16:28] <smoser> 3
[16:28] <smoser> 2
[16:28] <smoser> 1
[16:28] <smoser> RoAkSoAx assigned
[16:28] <Daviey> Done!
[16:28] <dholbach> harsh
[16:28] <Daviey> bug 876768, hallyn - how is it going?
[16:29] <hallyn> it's on the back burner
[16:29] <hallyn> i'll get to that again when i'm done with lxc and any new bugs
[16:29] <Daviey> hallyn: For A1 or length of cycle?
[16:29] <hallyn> what exactly?  i'll have a package working for sid by end of week i hope
[16:30] <hallyn> when will it be *in* sid?  no idea :)
[16:30] <hallyn> when i get that package, i'll do a new ubuntu package based on it,
[16:30] <hallyn> and ask for that to be packaged in precise
[16:30] <hallyn> all of that hopefully this week
[16:30] <Daviey> Oh wow
[16:30] <Daviey> better progress than i expected!
[16:30] <Daviey> nice one hallyn
[16:30] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: smoser lol I cant take it though I wont work on it till probably EOW
[16:30] <RoAkSoAx> or next week
[16:31] <Daviey> That is all of our bugs on the list.. any others people are working on, or need to be targeted?
[16:31] <adam_g> Daviey: i can also take bug 868492
[16:31] <Daviey> Great!
[16:31] <rbasak> Daviey: I'm done with 878180
[16:32] <Daviey> bug 878180
[16:32] <rbasak> though I'm not sure how to test it, need to simulate some weird conditions for that
[16:32] <Daviey> rbasak: did cjwatson look at it, do you know?
[16:32] <rbasak> I've checked the file lists by hand though
[16:32] <rbasak> not that I know of
[16:33] <Daviey> Ok
[16:33] <Daviey> Any other issues, people would like to raise - that we need to work on?
[16:33] <Daviey> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
[16:33] <Daviey> UDS, NEXT WEEK - Orlando, florida
[16:34] <Daviey> http://uds.ubuntu.com
[16:34] <Daviey> Any other events?
[16:34] <Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[16:34] <Daviey> hggdh: Hello sir!
[16:34] <robbiew> OpenCompute Summit this Thursday..but that's just me
[16:36] <Daviey> okay, we'll come back
[16:36] <Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[16:36] <Daviey> Hello smb!
[16:36] <Daviey> bug 881076, is awesome
[16:38] <Daviey> I assume smb is absent.
[16:38] <Daviey> any other kernel people present?
[16:38] <Daviey> oh well
[16:38] <Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[16:38] <robbiew> this is a great meeting
[16:38] <robbiew> lol
[16:39] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/PBlueprintIdeas
[16:39] <robbiew> for those interested in Precise related ARM development
[16:39] <robbiew> Server features listed there as well
[16:39] <Daviey> Thanks NCommander !
[16:39] <Daviey> That is a good URL for us to look through.
[16:39] <Daviey> Any othet questions for NCommander ?
[16:40] <Daviey> Thanks NCommander (robbiew)
[16:40] <Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[16:41] <Daviey> koolhead17 deserves a mention, he's been rocking this week.
[16:41] <Daviey> Thanks koolhead17
[16:41] <Daviey> #topic Open Discussion
[16:41] <Daviey> robbiew: Want to mention blueprints?
[16:41] <robbiew> I already did
[16:41] <robbiew> lol
[16:41]  * koolhead17 thanks Daviey for kicking me to correct direction and lynxman as well :)
[16:41] <robbiew> all kidding aside
[16:42] <lynxman> koolhead17: pleased to help man :)
[16:42] <robbiew> I think we have MORE than enough
[16:42] <robbiew> and will be focusing on making sure we have the right amount of information for each
[16:42] <Daviey> Great
[16:42] <robbiew> so we can have a useful discussion
[16:42] <hallyn> stability stability stability :)
[16:42] <robbiew> ie....SPECS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[16:42] <Daviey> Yeah, i noticed too many of the blueprints are title only
[16:42] <robbiew> wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
[16:43] <Daviey> Some of them really need some pre-drafting, so we have something to talk about!
[16:43] <robbiew> we don't need the complete Spec...but at least through "Assumptions"...so we know the idea and what we need to sort out
[16:43] <Daviey> Great!  See you all next week :)
[16:43] <Daviey> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
[16:43] <Daviey> Won't be on next week, so 2 weeks today, same time, same place
[16:44] <Daviey> #endmeeting
[16:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 25 16:44:09 2011 UTC.
[16:44] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-25-16.01.moin.txt
[16:44] <hallyn> cheerio
[16:44] <Daviey> thanks all!


[01:02] <racarr> only 68 more files to remove mir event access from
[01:29] <racarr> will be here for meeting but going to break for a while
[02:43] <DalekSec> Hello!  Sorry to come with so little detail, but is there a known issue with xmir, nouveau, tty switching, or such that would cause a screen lockup?  What I did, booted into the xmir session, looked at a couple things, ran a few commands, switched to a tty and ran a couple more, switched back to TTY7 and after a little typing nothing seemed to take anymore, keyboard or mouse.  I was also unable to
[02:43] <DalekSec> switch TTYs.
[02:46] <DalekSec> Congrats otherwise, was more responsive than before! :)
[02:53] <duflu> DalekSec: Not surprising such bugs might still exist, but I'm not aware of anyone else still experiencing that kind of thing. Not sure
[02:54] <DalekSec> Oh sorry, Mir 0.10.0, forgot to say. >_<
[02:54] <DalekSec> duflu: OK, thanks.  It was a live session anyway, so no harm.
[02:54] <duflu> DalekSec: Yeah I could tell if it's "more responsive" :)
[02:54] <DalekSec> Ahaha. :D
[02:55] <duflu> DalekSec: BTW Mir 0.11 will be noticeably better for XMir
[02:56] <DalekSec> duflu: Oh?  And is that going to be released into vivid soon?
[02:56] <duflu> DalekSec: Probably more like a month away. It will take that long to reach critical mass
[02:57] <DalekSec> Ah, alright.  Thanks.  I suppose I should check the tabloids to see what might be coming. :P
[02:58] <duflu> DalekSec: Maybe, but this channel is more accurate :)
[02:58] <duflu> because the Mir team is actually here
[02:58] <DalekSec> Oh indeed, I don't follow it too closely though, too many things to keep track of.
[03:41] <duflu> Ha. I keep starting the wrong version of our demo servers by accident. But you notice the difference immediately as 0.10 is noticeably more laggy than 0.11
[04:37] <duflu> racarr: You could make a permanently opaque structure for clients like:
[04:37] <duflu> struct MirEvent
[04:37] <duflu> {
[04:37] <duflu>     long long serial_num;   // A unique ID for this event. Only Mir can use it.
[04:37] <duflu> };
[04:37] <duflu> And let the server decide how long is right to remember each one internally
[04:38] <duflu> if not "char opaque[1024];" ;)
[04:39] <DalekSec> (Oh woah, 1212753 was fixed?!  Also, I don't suppose that'll fix the software renderer?)
[04:39] <duflu> I mean let the client library decide how long to keep the internal representation of each
[04:40] <duflu> DalekSec: Kinda. That error should now be impossible but none of mir-team has hardware to reproduce and verify it
[04:41] <DalekSec> So I suppose if I get a chance, I should check it.  OK, coolio.  I'll stop bugging now. :)
[06:24] <duflu> Ugg, I top approve things and then am surprised when they land
[06:24] <duflu> Clever
[09:01] <anpok> hm is there any reason why RAOF used mir/{client,server}-platform as install paths for platforms but just {client,server}-modules inside the build?
[10:34] <greyback> alf_: hey, I've multimonitor working with Qt. Did you ever observe, with mesa, that one display's swap buffers would cause swap buffers of the other display to block?
[10:35] <anpok> wow, one thread per monitor?
[10:35] <greyback> yeah
[10:35] <anpok> and a single qml scene?
[10:35] <greyback> yeah
[10:35] <alf_> greyback: \o/, I haven't noticed this. Could it be locking at the qml/qt level?
[10:35] <anpok> hm then one event loop .. hmm are renderers allowed to draw one scene multiple times?
[10:36] <alf_> greyback: Also is this using MultiThreadedCompositor now or just Qt as before?
[10:37] <greyback> anpok: one per "frame" the QML scene is synchronized with the scenegraph. The scenegraph can then be passed over multiple times if need be
[10:37] <anpok> oh
[10:37] <anpok> i mean .. cool
[10:37] <greyback> alf_: just Qt. It's another project to combine mir and qt's renderers
[10:38] <alf_> greyback: ok
[10:38] <greyback> anpok: note it's not a single scene as you'd define it. We've 1 QML scene, but it is split into 2 subtrees, one subtree for each monitor
[10:38] <greyback> anpok: so I can't easily have something 1/2 way on each monitor
[10:40] <greyback> alf_: so yeah it could be many things, I just heard rumour mesa might be an issue
[10:41] <anpok> hm something like that might happen with qxl
[10:41] <alf_> greyback: I haven't noticed something like this locally, but I haven't tried MM recently. Does the blocking have a visible effect?
[10:42] <greyback> alf_: with relatively complex scenes yes. I see one monitor's eglSwapBuffer block for 7-10ms every frame
[10:42] <greyback> I'm sure you would have noticed that however. So probably something I'm doing wrong
[10:43] <greyback> but yay for almost working , and not crashing
[10:43] <alf_> greyback: Is that the low-level eglSwapBuffer call in mesa::DisplayBuffer ?
[10:44] <greyback> alf_: not quite, it's the DisplayBuffer::gl_swap_buffers and flip calls
[10:47] <alf_> greyback: If this includes flip then a delay is normal, since need to synchronize with vsync to do the flip.
[10:55]  * greyback goes to disable on non-primary monitor...
[11:04] <alf_> greyback: having said that, you should also be seeing such a "delay" even with one monitor. If you are seeing very different delay behavior with multiple screens we should look into it. Of course, with multiple screens we are stressing the GPU more...
[11:05] <greyback> alf_: I only see such a delay with one monitor. I want to see how a stock mir server behaves
[11:21] <duflu> greyback_: Multi-monitor could theoretically suffer from indefinite freezes on secondary monitors (part of bug 1395581)
[11:21] <duflu> ... in theory
[11:22] <duflu> Although your render time should be <1ms on desktop
[11:23] <greyback_> duflu: ok, will keep that in mind. I've an animation on both screens, so both should be constantly redrawing
[11:23] <greyback_> how do I make proving shell change to side-by-side config?
[11:23] <duflu> greyback_: --help ;)
[11:23] <greyback_> you mean I have to read, ugh
[11:24] <duflu> greyback_: Also you'll get significantly higher performance releasing all your renderables before the flip()
[11:24] <duflu> If not already
[11:25] <greyback_> duflu: not so easy for qtmir to do that just yet, but yeah I understand why
[11:26] <duflu> greyback_: Sounds a lot like buffers_ready_for_compositor() is underestimated for the second monitor... which is bug 1395581
[11:27] <greyback_> duflu: I'm not even rendering client surfaces yet. This is compositor only
[11:27] <duflu> greyback_: Not nested I take it
[11:27] <greyback_> well mir-proving-shell works nicely
[11:27] <greyback_> duflu: correct
[11:28] <duflu> greyback_: OK, good luck. It's getting late here
[11:28] <greyback_> so qtmir has a problem somewhere
[11:28] <greyback_> duflu: absolutely, go away :)
[11:28] <duflu> Kay
[11:36] <alan_g> greyback_: would you also check "mir_demo_shell --display-config sidebyside  --window-manager tiling"? (There are some - probably irrelevant - compositing tweaks in proving shell)
[11:37] <greyback_> alan_g: ok
[11:37] <greyback_> alan_g: ah I don't have the latest mir for that
[11:38] <greyback_> mir_proving_server --display-config sidebyside  --window-manager tiling
[11:38] <greyback_> [1421840251.676989] (II) SharedLibrary: Loading libmirplatform5driver.so
[11:38] <greyback_> Unknown command line options: --window-manager tiling
[11:38] <alan_g> greyback_: nevermind then
[11:38] <greyback_> next time
[11:39] <alan_g> Like I said the tweaks are probably irrelevant. Just peace of mind to eliminate them
[11:40] <greyback_> just figured out it's a qt problem, so I wouldn't worry :)
[11:43] <alan_g> :)
[11:43] <anpok> for various definitions of 'I'?
[11:43] <greyback_> :D
[11:46] <alan_g> anpok: it's a common abbreviation for "if I were you then I wouldn't worry"/"I wouldn't worry if I were you"
[11:50] <anpok> ... lost in translation
[15:05] <tsdgeos> guys, do you use zeitgeist for something?