[07:30] <tsdgeos> Mirv: how's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/+bug/1371472 going? Would you need help with it?
[07:30] <tsdgeos> it's pretty critical for us
[07:39] <Mirv> tsdgeos: there were a couple of slowdowns like one unit test failing suddenly failing with or without the patch, and gcc 4.9 rebuild requiring many rebuilds to get the symbols correct (without breaking -gles packages..). now I've been running AP tests and I'll hand it off to QA today.
[07:40] <tsdgeos> Mirv: great, just shout to me if you need any help from us :)
[07:40] <Mirv> tsdgeos: but feel free to test and report success with https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu-rtm/landing-020/
[07:40] <tsdgeos> i will
[07:40] <Mirv> I need to do one more rebuild of the -gles package to fix version number, but that's not relevant to testing.
[07:40] <Mirv> thanks!
[07:57] <tsdgeos> does anyone know where the "Reply", "Send" buttons from indicator-message when you get an sms come from?
[08:05] <seb128> tsdgeos, unity8/qml/Panel/Indicators/MessageMenuItemFactory.qml I guess
[08:06] <tsdgeos> seb128: ubuntu-settings-components it seems
[08:06] <seb128> k
[08:06] <tsdgeos> a quick grep reveals a scary number of non i18n'ed strings
[08:06] <seb128> shrug, indeed
[08:06] <tsdgeos> i'll do a quick M
[08:06] <tsdgeos> R
[08:06] <seb128> thanks
[08:07] <Cimi> tsdgeos, there is indicator-polishing branch with several fixes
[08:07] <tsdgeos> Cimi: i know, can't i18n strings that come from somewhere else though
[08:08] <Cimi> tsdgeos, ubuntu settings components has an indicator-polishing branch too
[08:08] <tsdgeos> ah
[08:08] <Cimi> tsdgeos, be sure to work with that as a base
[08:09] <seb128> base -> if that's ready to land
[08:09] <seb128> otherwise we might want to translate what we currently have
[08:10] <tsdgeos> seems to be approved
[08:10] <tsdgeos> Cimi: mzanetti: do you know its status?
[08:10] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I approved, but I am not doing landings
[08:11] <mzanetti> what status?
[08:13] <tsdgeos> oh
[08:13] <tsdgeos> the thing doesn't have a pot
[08:13] <tsdgeos> Cimi: how are translations for this thing done then?
[08:13] <Cimi> dammit then
[08:14] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I will ask dednick
[08:14] <tsdgeos> is the new image good or fails to boot like 252?
[08:18] <tsdgeos> Mirv: i gave a quick try the ppa you mention and can not reproduce the crash anymore
[08:22] <Mirv> tsdgeos: ack, thanks for confirming
[08:22]  * Mirv needs to get a webop increase the PPA size, since I can't upload the final -gles package anymore...
[08:50] <mzanetti> Cimi: as you assigned yourself to that dash bug, you might want to take this similar one too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1373819
[08:50] <Cimi> mzanetti, okey
[08:51] <Cimi> mzanetti, or tsdgeos
[08:51] <Cimi> tsdgeos, look at that bug ^
[08:52] <Cimi> tsdgeos, will likely to be gone with new bottom edge_
[08:52] <Cimi> ?
[08:52] <mzanetti> I guess we'll still be able to open temporary scopes, now?
[08:52] <mzanetti> s/now/no/
[08:53] <tsdgeos> that's a duplicate
[08:53] <mzanetti> oh
[08:53] <mzanetti> sorry
[08:53] <tsdgeos> of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1370064
[08:53] <tsdgeos> more or less
[08:53] <tsdgeos> assign it to me
[08:53] <mzanetti> :)
[08:54] <tsdgeos> i'm 99% the cause is the same
[08:54] <tsdgeos> so fixing one will fix the other
[08:54] <mzanetti> done
[08:54] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: and no you can't open temp scopes from the new bottom edge
[08:54] <tsdgeos> the new bottom edge has all the features gone and lots of new features in
[08:54] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: will there still be a bottom edge?
[08:55] <mzanetti> from what Cimi told me yesterday it'll be more like the old scopes scope
[08:55] <tsdgeos> still on the bottom edge
[08:55] <mzanetti> ah ok
[08:55] <tsdgeos> and anyway there's nothing new for rtm
[08:55] <Cimi> mzanetti, bottom edge will open a list
[08:55] <tsdgeos> we're going with dash overview for rtm
[08:55] <tsdgeos> so we have to fix it
[08:55] <mzanetti> ack
[08:56] <Cimi> tsdgeos, doing the new bottom edge list is so long?
[08:56] <tsdgeos> Cimi: seen "Fwd: Unity8 RTM big items estimate" from yesterday?
[10:21] <tsdgeos> Cimi: are you taking care of https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/card-visual-tweaks/+merge/234332 ?
[10:33] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I am patching it, yes
[10:33] <tsdgeos> Cimi: coo
[10:33] <tsdgeos> l
[10:35] <Cimi> tsdgeos, if you want to review that one :)
[10:35] <Cimi> tsdgeos, we need to clear up the queue
[10:35] <Cimi> tsdgeos, we might still be able to do overview as list for RTM maybe
[10:36] <tsdgeos> Cimi: are the design questions related to serach fixed?
[10:36] <tsdgeos> no
[10:36] <tsdgeos> then how are we going to do it?
[10:36] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I am going to the office
[10:36] <Cimi> tsdgeos, right now on the bus
[10:37] <Cimi> tsdgeos, eveything is in the doc? I will chase for answers
[10:37] <Cimi> tsdgeos, otherwise tell me here
[10:37] <tsdgeos> Cimi: well we have the meeting at 3, no?
[10:38] <Cimi> tsdgeos, as you wish
[10:38] <Cimi> tsdgeos, letàì's do reviews in the meanwhile then :)
[10:38] <tsdgeos> Cimi: i mean if you can chase answers better
[10:38] <tsdgeos> and i guess for you the meeting is at 4
[10:38] <tsdgeos> :D
[10:39] <tsdgeos> i'm quite amazed people think Unsubscribe is easier to understand than Uninstall
[10:39] <tsdgeos> but people is so weird i should not be amazed anymore :D
[10:40] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I thought it was moved earlier
[10:40] <tsdgeos> Cimi: it's 3pm for me
[10:40] <Cimi> tsdgeos, unsubscribe works better for "content provider" / feed
[10:40] <Cimi> tsdgeos, so is 2pm here
[10:40] <tsdgeos> Cimi: ah that
[10:41] <tsdgeos> Cimi: i disagree, giving that to "subscribe" i will have to go to the store and click the install button :D
[10:41] <tsdgeos> but fine, the naming is the least of my concerns
[10:41] <Cimi> tsdgeos, oh, you're right then
[10:41] <Cimi> tsdgeos, if to install we have install, it doesn't make sense
[10:42] <tsdgeos> Cimi: everything's on the doc afaik, yes
[11:51] <facundobatista> Holas
[13:25] <mterry> mzanetti, replied to your passphrase-ui-tweaks comment -- that is a bug but not caused by something in u8 code I don't think.  A general SDK/font thing
[13:26] <mzanetti> mterry: well, check out the pin lockscreen. you can reuse the dots from there
[13:26] <mzanetti> mterry: it also has some logic to make sure it distributes the dots and doesn't overflow
[13:28] <mterry> mzanetti, the dots in the PIN lockscreen aren't associated with a TextInput.  I guess I could use an opacity=0 TextInput and float dots above it.  But I'd rather just eventually fix the font issue at its cause
[13:29] <mzanetti> mterry: I don't see a text input :D
[13:29] <mterry> mzanetti, maybe this font issue is why the PIN scree just draws rounded rectangles instead of using the actual unicode
[13:29] <mterry> mzanetti, in PassphraseLockscreen, there's a TextInput
[13:30] <mzanetti> mterry: yeah, I know... but not design-wise
[13:30] <mterry> mzanetti, right, but we need proper interaction with the OSK.  Is there a clever way of doing that without a TextInput?
[13:30] <mzanetti> mterry: well, the pin lockscreen bubbles need to be distributed equally, you never could do that with just font
[13:30] <mzanetti> oh, that's a good point
[13:31] <mzanetti> hmm, that might be tricky I guess. except making it opacity: 0 and just mirroring the contents of the textfield to dots
[13:31] <mterry> mzanetti, right, like I said that's an option, but seems like going out of our way to workaround what seems to be a font bug
[13:32] <mterry> mzanetti, to be fair, the font bug won't be fixed shortly I imagine, so a workaround may be in order
[13:32] <mterry> mzanetti, just depends how much we hate this look
[13:32] <mzanetti> mterry: well, I guess also this one should distribute the dots to fill space but not overflow
[13:32] <mzanetti> so doing it with a regular textfield would become quite tricky too
[13:33] <mzanetti> mterry: make tryLockscreen, set max length to 20 and see
[13:34] <mterry> mzanetti, there is already minimal space in between dots, since passphrases tend to be longer.  But yes, we should probably adjust text size to be smaller if user enters a huge passphrase
[13:34] <mterry> mzanetti, but I was planning on re-using whatever solution we come up with for bug 1372515 for that
[13:34] <mzanetti> I see
[13:34] <mterry> mzanetti, but using rectangle dots would be fine too
[13:35] <mterry> mzanetti, why don't I spend a few minutes on that and see what happens
[13:35] <mzanetti> ok
[13:53] <Mirv> andyrock: https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/bamf/lp-1342609/+merge/234343 needs debian/changelog synced from archives (two changelog entries describing no-change rebuilds)
[13:53] <Mirv> bregma: ^
[13:53] <bregma> oops, missed that
[13:54] <bregma> this is one  of the problems with using upstream as a downstream
[13:55] <mterry> mzanetti, try now, feels alright to me
[13:57] <mzanetti> mterry: perfect, thanks
[13:58] <mterry> mzanetti, I'll file a bug against...  ubuntu-ui-toolkit I guess...?  about the non-scaling password character issue
[13:58] <mzanetti> mterry: hmm... I guess that might be a bug indeed... not sure if it would have worked in this case, but yeah, in other cases this probably is an issue indeed
[13:59] <mzanetti> mterry: actually. I always had the impression the 4 dots for the fixed password in system settings looked too small
[13:59] <mterry> mzanetti, yeah we probably want to continue using these dots even if that gets fixed.  But someone else might hit it
[14:32] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, ping
[14:33] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Hi
[14:33] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, sorry to bother you but if I remember well you're maintaining unity 7 and tried to solve some issues with compiz right ?
[14:34] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Yes, I'm one of a handful of folks who maintain Unity7 & Compiz.  What's up?
[14:35] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, I think the issue with the hotcorners is still present, if set they go forgotten after a few reboots or logging in/out
[14:38] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Oh, right, I remember looking at that.  I tried to reproduce, but the hot corners I set have never reset.  I also asked a colleague and he couldn't reproduce, so I'm really not sure why you are afflicted from that.
[14:39] <mterry> tsdgeos, what was that about pull to refresh?
[14:40] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: so what JMulholland said for the pull to refresh was that it should just "reset to 0" that internal timer you guys already have, right?
[14:40] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, mmm admiteddly I haven't tried in a while but googling I found people were still affected, I'll test today and check again and I'll let you know
[14:41] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Ok, sorry I can't be much more help, but without being able to reproduce, I can't get too far in fixing it.
[14:42] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, sure I'll check again and try to collect any info I can if I can reproduce it, if I can't you've done a great job :)
[14:43] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: lol, if you can't, then, well, um, yeah...
[14:44] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: so well, i think that yes, that's what we have to do, just set internal timer scopes already have to 0, pstolowski is your man for that
[14:44] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, well, technically you just need to call Scope::refresh()
[14:44] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: and you handle that?
[14:44]  * mzanetti tries to figure context
[14:44] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, no timers etc, he just confused things a bit
[14:45] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, unrelated, is it likely that the unity shortcuts will stop being hardcoded in the future ?
[14:45] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: could it be this was addressed to mterry?
[14:45] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: ah yeah sorry, mterry ↑↑↑↑
[14:46] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: I seriously doubt it for Unity7, but you never know.
[14:47] <tsdgeos> awesome
[14:47] <tsdgeos> cpulimit -l 10 makes the test fail \o7
[14:49] <mterry> mzanetti, pstolowski: yeah, I have the refresh() call working already, I'm just stuck with some UI stuff (I've never messed with scopes/dash code before).  Thanks for tip though!  refresh() is nice and simple from my side  :)
[14:49] <mterry> tsdgeos, ^
[14:49] <mterry> mzanetti, hah, got name wrong again!  :)
[14:49] <mterry> mzanetti, you *will* be a part of this conversation  :)
[14:49] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:50] <pstolowski> mterry, cool, yeah, should be simple for you
[14:51] <mzanetti> seems so
[15:07] <dandrader> tsdgeos, are you getting all those failures as well? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8426050/
[15:08] <dandrader> tsdgeos, I recall you were saying about getting the qmltests to pass on CI
[15:08] <tsdgeos> dandrader: first 3 are not failiures
[15:08] <tsdgeos> last 2 are fixed in https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/fix_gsv_test
[15:08] <dandrader> tsdgeos, they're xfailures! (whatever that means)
[15:08] <tsdgeos> test_header_style(Logo+Background) Title image has the wrong source i am not getting
[15:08] <tsdgeos> dandrader: XFAIL is an expected failure
[15:08] <tsdgeos> i.e. a pass
[15:09] <dandrader> tsdgeos, there 3 are proper failures there, not 2
[15:09] <tsdgeos> yes
[15:09] <tsdgeos> that's what i said
[15:10] <tsdgeos> the last two are fixed by that branch i mention
[15:10] <tsdgeos> the other one i have never seen
[15:10] <dandrader> tsdgeos, ah
[15:10] <dandrader> tsdgeos, you mean the test_header_style one?
[15:10] <tsdgeos> yes,
[15:11] <tsdgeos> [17:08:46] <tsdgeos> test_header_style(Logo+Background) Title image has the wrong source i am not getting
[17:27] <racarr> greyback: Can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/platform-api/support-state-changing/+merge/235545 when you get a chance?
[17:28] <greyback> racarr: sure
[17:43] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, I just tried, fresh install, I applied the updates, set up the hotcorners, rebooted, not working anymore
[17:44] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Very, very strange.  I don't know why it stays working on two systems I've tried along with my colleagues system.
[17:44] <darklight_> :/
[17:45] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1305438 others are having the same issue
[17:46] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Yeah, I know others have the issue, but if I can't reproduce, I'm not sure how to debug.
[17:47] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, yeah, let me know if there's some info I might give to help
[17:48] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Are you enabling any other plugins?  Also, which hot corners are being set, ie, *exact* steps that gets you into the lost settings?
[17:50] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, no other plugins, I set the left top and bottom corners to workspace overview and window spread, I tried with both compizconfig-settings-manager and unity-tweak-tool, it seems to go bad only after a reboot (or at least I haven't been able to trigger it today by logging in/out), disabling and enabling the hotcorners makes them work again for the session
[17:51] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Also, does disabling "Show live preview in spread" have any effect for you?
[17:51] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, that I haven't tried
[17:52] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Ok, well, I thought from your original bug, that is what you set and that is what I did.  However, I haven't done a clean install so there may be some cruft that is keeping this from happening.  Unfortunately, I can't do a clean install at this time.
[17:56] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, oh btw, it was in another bug report (can't find it right now) but people reported it in 14.10 too
[18:06] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Yeah, make sense since we haven't touched anything in that area for 14.10.
[18:09] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, a dirty fix untill it's solved could be to just set a script to setup the hotcorners on login, but I have no clue what it could use
[18:13] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, is there any way to pass compiz a setting?
[18:17] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: There is, just like CCSM does.  However, that API is, uh, how should I put it, not very straightforward.  I've looked it over, then just kind of dismissed it.  Also, there *might* be a way to do it via dbus command line.  Maybe Trevinho would know more about that.
[18:17] <darklight_> Trevinho, ping
[18:18] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: It's his evening time, so he may not be around.
[18:19] <darklight_> ChrisTownsend, oh ok, about the api where can I find it ?
[18:20] <ChrisTownsend> darklight_: Basically looking at the ccsm code in lp:compiz.


[11:04] <rammy> hello anyone know how to install R Studio on 13.10
[11:39] <elmargol> Hi I'm wondering if there is a list of new enduser features in 13.10 is there something on the wiki?
[11:49] <philinux> elmargol: I've listed a few here. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2142381
[11:53] <elmargol> philinux, tank you
[12:03] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[20:42] <johnjohn1011> where is #ubuntu+2?
[20:44] <BluesKaj> johnjohn1011:  it doesn't exist
[20:44] <johnjohn1011> 14.04 release skedule is out... i thought there would be a site for it
[20:46] <BluesKaj> not until 13.10 is officially released , but then 14.04 will be ubuntu+1 OS :)
[20:47] <johnjohn1011> so seven more weeks, i guess.  I wonder what 14.04 will bring to the desktop.
[20:49] <BluesKaj> well for ubuntu users mir is their future , for kubuntu it's probly wayland
[20:50] <johnjohn1011> really no difference to me what display is used. I don't see where it benefits me.
[20:54] <johnjohn1011> is that a bad thing to say?
[20:57] <BluesKaj> dunno , depends if you rely on desktop effects , or if you're a gamer etc , it's supposed to replace the X graphics system
[20:59] <johnjohn1011> but unless i'm doing gaming, touch or desktop effects, will it make a big diff to me?
[21:04] <BluesKaj> can't predict how you wouldn't
[21:05] <BluesKaj> or would benefir since I don't know your situation
[21:07] <johnjohn1011> i just use basic apps, firefox, chrome, libreoffice,  maybe once in a while kmail (if i get bored with using web based email).  that's all.  just seems like unity for desktop is on hold until after 14.04 is released. I'm done griping.  using 13.10 on vmware player has been a decent experience.
[21:10] <BluesKaj> well, I'm using KDE ...tried ubuntu/unity in VB but the guest additions wouldn't install so it was very clunky and I dumped it
[21:13] <BluesKaj> never was a gnome fan either , and that unity sidebar isn't my taste , and the default orange for folders etc is a head scratcher
[21:14] <johnjohn1011> would be nice to get some customization in unity.
[21:14] <BluesKaj> and ubuntu-tweak isn't available for 123.10
[21:14] <BluesKaj> 13.10
[21:15] <BluesKaj> some pll love it , but it's not my style
[21:15] <bazhang> !find tweak
[21:16] <bazhang> unity-tweak-tool is available
[21:16] <BluesKaj> too late , already gone
[21:18] <BluesKaj> this partition is being saved for kubuntu 14.04
[21:19] <bazhang> just setting the record straight on having tweak tools, one for gnome-shell as well
[21:22] <johnjohn1011> can't wait to get my qml widgets on the desktop!!
[21:23] <BluesKaj> bazhang:  well record or no , I was  disappointed with the new ubuntu once more, I give it try every release anyway.
[21:27] <johnjohn1011> every new distro with a custom desktop now is using ubuntu as the back end. I think that is a good thing
[22:28] <vexati0n> so um... wtf happened to multiarch in Saucy? where is my ia32-libs ?
[22:28] <vexati0n> multiarch-support is failing to work for wps office
[22:35] <ali1234> vexati0n: ia32-libs is replaced by multiarch
[22:35] <ali1234> it was left in older releases for compatibility, perhaps it has finally been removed totally


 Marcus is off for paternity leave and in his absence you're the best candidates for this job ;)
[09:28] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: there's a new api required for that, right? guess we need to update the mock code we have in unity8 too
[09:28] <pstolowski> tsdgeos i've just linked the new api to this MP
[09:28] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, cimi is going to work on unity8 changes i believe
[09:28] <tsdgeos> yep
[09:29] <tsdgeos> cimi: do you do the review or this too or want me to help here?
[09:30] <tsdgeos> garg qmltestrunner::Preview::test_comboEnsureVisible still is unstable
[09:31] <Mirv> mzanetti: FYI lpotter's inputinfo patch set 20 ready for upgrade from silo 009 in roughly 15 minutes (build is done, waiting for publisher run)
[09:31] <mzanetti> Mirv, you're the best!
[09:31] <lpotter> +1
[09:32] <mzanetti> lpotter, I'll try to give it another try today
[09:32] <mzanetti> thanks for updating
[09:33] <lpotter> thats what I'm here for
[09:59] <cimi> tsdgeos, sorry I am late this morning, woke up with some headache and had to take some painkillers - i'm much better now
[10:01] <tsdgeos> cimi: no worries, get better
[13:39] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: still workin in progress or need review? https://code.launchpad.net/~stolowski/unity-scopes-shell/single-preview/+merge/286360
[13:40] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: why 9 to 11  in https://code.launchpad.net/~stolowski/unity-api/single-preview/+merge/286359 ?
[13:40] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, i just keep it WIP because i want to test it with unity8 (not possible right now)
[13:41] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, to match scopes-impl-11 in unity-scopes-shell. not sure if this is important though.. and not sure why they don't match anymore
[13:41] <tsdgeos> k
[13:45] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, the tests we have in shell plugin prove that is "should work", but you never know... things are slightly different in qml world
[13:45] <tsdgeos> sure
[14:03] <balloons> ChrisTownsend, kgunn, bregma, did anyone talk to you yet about mentoring for google summer of code? I'm curious if there is any interest in tasks within the realm of Unity8 or MIR. The mentoring is 1 on 1, over 3 months, so the projects can have some scope to them
[14:05] <bregma> balloons, I'm up for mentoring (I've done it a couple of years previously), especially if a student proposes a Mir- or convergence-related project
[14:06] <balloons> bregma, excellent! Do you have any ideas for things you could do? We're supposed to have a general list, but as you say, the final projects are a result of a student + mentors collective decision
[14:06] <bregma> I don;t have any student-level-finish-in-4-months tasks I could suggest at the moment
[14:08] <balloons> there was hope of creating a wm based on MIR; alan_g|lunch and alex proposed it for GCI, but it was kind of large in scope for that
[14:08] <balloons> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-T9-tVIUGsdqf8kTQc-TJPPUlfFXSZEZrhSwFUyFtP0/edit#
[14:08] <balloons> I think it might work now for GSOC
[14:25] <Saviq-dev> w00t, xchat-gnome on unity8 :D
[14:25] <Saviq-dev> this is fun
[14:27] <bregma> mterry, any chance you could update your use-ual-info branch?
[14:28] <mterry> bregma, ah sure
[14:28] <bregma> mterry, I'd like to slap it (or something similar) into silo 58 where we're trying to play with full-on Libertine convergence
[14:29] <mterry> yikes, 20 conflicts
[14:29] <bregma> before the dark and lurking horror that awaits us rises from the deep
[14:30] <davmor2> Saviq-dev: it's not fun.....it's very very serious :D
[14:30] <Saviq> why so serious
[14:32] <davmor2> Saviq, Saviq-dev: because xchat-gnome is a serious piece of software it's not there for fun, Are you trying to tell me you have fun on IRC, huh huh huh well are you?????!!!!????? :D
[14:33] <Saviq-dev> no fun :(
[14:33] <davmor2> Saviq: hehehe :)
[14:36] <balloons> Saviq, bregma, another idea might be to snappify up a set of desktop apps -- do you think that would work as a project? Adding some new application snaps and extending support for running snaps on the desktop?
[14:36] <Saviq> mhall119, btw, balloons speaking here, let's stick to one channel?
[14:37] <balloons> sorry, just trying to close up loose ends as the application has to be submitted tomorrow.
[14:37] <alan_g> balloons: if you spell my name correctly I'm OK with being a mentor
[14:37] <Saviq> balloons, two ideas came to mind here: DisplayLink (USB GPUs) support in Mir, or rather DL drivers suitable for Mir; and background processing services for GPS, accelerometer or some such
[14:38] <Saviq> :D
[14:38] <Saviq> balloons, what has to be done by tomorrow then?
[14:38] <Saviq> oop
[14:39] <mhall119> Saviq: I think we were going to try and get tvoss for the background processing services
[14:40] <bregma> ya know, I would love to see the accelerometer/gyroscope/magnetometer in most modern laptops working on the desktop, if someone is looking for a cool GSoC project.....
[14:40] <balloons> alan_g, Excellent. I'll work on my inability to spell!
[14:40] <Saviq> bregma, yeah, and screen state detection - no idea how does my XPS12 communicate that the screen's folded so it should go into tablet mode
[14:41] <alan_g> balloons: BTW You also misspelt "alf_" above
[14:41] <bregma> that's another IIO sensor, fix one and you fix 'em all
[14:42] <bregma> I wish the keyboard on my Yoga 2 would disable when I fold it under so I could play Mahjongg without fear
[14:42] <Saviq> bregma, mine does disable... not the touchpad, though, meaning if I press the screen hard enough, I get events from it :S
[14:42] <bregma> all it would take is a kernel module and some udev rules, it's really just that easy
[14:43] <Saviq> balloons, mhall119 ↑ you got a topic and a mentor it seems ;)
[14:43] <bregma> right, it's the touchpad that ruins everything
[14:43] <bregma> nothing a pair of wirecuters won't fix permanently
[14:45] <mhall119> "kernel module", "easy", heh
[14:46] <mhall119> Saviq: which one is the topic?
[14:47] <Saviq> mhall119, <bregma> ya know, I would love to see the accelerometer/gyroscope/magnetometer in most modern laptops working on the desktop, if someone is looking for a cool GSoC project.....
[14:47] <mhall119> and bregma is volunteering to be the mentor?
[14:47] <Saviq> looks like ti
[14:47] <bregma> I can do that
[14:48] <Saviq> mhall119, I'm afraid unity8 isn't a project that makes sense for GSOC, we don't have big enough tasks for that
[14:48] <mhall119> no? Not even desktop features in the window management?
[14:50] <mhall119> Saviq: for example, we could give somebody the task of implementing all the keyboard shortcuts from Unity 7
[14:50] <ltinkl> mhall119, we have those already (most of them)
[14:51] <Saviq> mhall119, that's too small IMO
[14:51] <mhall119> really? I'll have to try it again then
[14:51] <mhall119> Saviq: enabling workspaces?
[14:51] <ltinkl> mhall119, some of the stuff (like launcher) might have not landed yet tho
[14:51] <mhall119> oh, how about re-enabling the HUD, can we do that? :)
[14:51] <Saviq> mhall119, a lot depends on designs that we don't have
[14:52] <Saviq> and are unlikely to have in the time frame
[14:52] <ltinkl> Saviq, mhall119: I think we have some (preliminary) workspaces designs, dunno how feasible is to share them
[14:53] <Saviq> preliminary's the word
[14:53] <Saviq> one topic *could* be to refactor shortcut handling so it's configurable and centralized
[14:53] <Saviq> but again, that's not a big enough task IMO
[14:53] <ltinkl> Saviq, hmm, actually I think this won't be small either
[14:54] <mhall119> Saviq: assume there will be some time taken up getting them started and familiar enough with the codebase to make contributions
[14:54] <Saviq> mhall119, we're not really just reimplementing unity7 in QML ;P
[14:54] <ltinkl> Saviq, if you'd also have to write the config for it (presumably system settings)
[14:55] <ltinkl> Saviq, mhall119: fingerprint sensor support for the (un)lock screen? ;)
[14:55] <ltinkl> that would be nice
[14:55] <Saviq> ltinkl, that's done in PAM
[14:56] <Saviq> ltinkl, supporting it on android could be a topic, but I couldn't mentor that for sure
[14:56] <ltinkl> Saviq, well ye but you have to integrate in various places, write a config GUI for the enrolllment etc.
[14:56] <ltinkl> I bet everyone knows by now which phone will have it :) http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/meizu-pro-5-ubuntu-edition-specs-price
[15:10] <cimi> arg was about to text him
[15:13] <cimi> pstolowski, hey :) are your two branches still WIP? can we build them somewhere in a silo so I can start easily test them? otherwise I'll build local
[15:13] <pstolowski> cimi, hi, they're wip only because i want to test it alltogether with unity8. so yeah, let's create a silo
[15:14] <pstolowski> cimi, do you have a unity8 branch already?
[15:14] <cimi> pstolowski, mmm I need little bit more work on my side, I did update mocks but I have to test them
[15:22] <pstolowski> cimi, ok, let me create a silo
[15:22] <cimi> pstolowski, thanks, building locally for now
[15:26] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, i'll put https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/activtion-progress/+merge/284421 in the same silo as single-preview, any objections?
[15:27] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: looks good
[15:51] <pstolowski> cimi, we have silo 76 for this stuff. also added acitvation-progress there
[15:51] <cimi> pstolowski, thanks
[16:30] <Saviq> cimi, ltinkl, this is how my session looked like after having installed silo 64 https://imgur.com/cCmMqtl ;)
[16:30] <Saviq> *not* good :D
[16:30] <cimi> Saviq, ah so you wanted me to test silo 64, cheers mate :D
[16:30] <ltinkl> Saviq, when was it installed?
[16:30] <Saviq> ltinkl, just a sec ago
[16:31] <Saviq> but anyway, no time now, if it's not good straight away, won't dive in now
[16:31] <Saviq> it could very well be interaction between 10 and 64, although I purged the first
[16:31] <ltinkl> Saviq, yeah... yours look weird, wrong colors, black stage, even the font is a bit jaggy
[16:32] <Saviq> ltinkl, font jaggy is a known-ish problem
[16:32] <Saviq> but yeah, all the rest looks like UITK went apeshit
[16:33] <Saviq> hah
[16:33] <Saviq> I don't have UITK installed, that might explain things
[16:33] <ltinkl> wut
[16:33] <Saviq> wonder how that happened
[16:33] <ltinkl> Saviq, yeah.. is that "legal"?
[16:34] <Saviq> aha
[16:34] <Saviq> -gles got installed
[16:41] <Saviq> trying again
[17:03] <Saviq> ltinkl, fyi, the right UITK does not seem to have helped, will need to look into it later
[17:04] <ltinkl> Saviq, ye no pressure but it seems like your local issue to me (unless others confirm otherwise)
[17:04] <Saviq> sure, still interesting to know where it came from
[17:28] <mterry> bregma, I updated my use-ual-info branch.  Lots of changes, but it builds and tests cleanly now.  I didn't test full stack though, since I figured we might as well put it in a silo and test from that instead
[17:29] <bregma> mterry, thanks, I'll play with it in silo 58 then
[18:46] <bregma> OK, Silo 58 works on frieza, I'm off to celebrate with a sandwich and a glass of milk


[02:37] <dysfigured6> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[03:42] <jfmcarreira27> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[03:42] <jfmcarreira27> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[04:39] <daemon1> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[04:40] <ynyounuo22> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[04:42] <Tourist20> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[04:42] <Tourist20> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[05:35] <emerson> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[05:35] <emerson> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[06:38] <Razesdark> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[07:46] <betawaffle28> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[07:46] <betawaffle28> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[10:03] <tsp1> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[10:11] <percy> test
[10:11] <ubrl> percy:点点点.  18:11
[12:14] <Bonn33325> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[12:14] <Bonn33325> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[12:36] <nkuttler20> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[12:56] <DanPin12> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[14:34] <Sagan24> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[15:43] <woddf27> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[16:00] <jeggott1> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[16:47] <belak11> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[16:47] <belak11> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[19:24] <abraxis> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[19:47] <Zalabaslea> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[19:55] <Phex> After the acquisition by Private Internet Access, Freenode is now being used to push ICO scams https://www.coindesk.com/handshake-revealed-vcs-back-plan-to-give-away-100-million-in-crypto/
[19:55] <Phex> "All told, Handshake aims to give $250 worth of its tokens to *each* user of the websites the company has partnerships with – GitHub, the P2P Foundation and *FREENODE*, a chat channel for peer-to-peer projects. As such, developers who have existing accounts on each could receive up to $750 worth of Handshake tokens."
[22:58] <Selavi12>
[22:58] <Selavi12>
[22:58] <Selavi12>


[00:21] <teward> can someone explain why launchpad's emailing me about a saucy-proposed sponsored debdiff failing to upload after building?
[00:22] <wgrant> teward: Which build?
[00:22] <teward> wgrant, one moment while my email loads
[00:22]  * teward kicks Thunderbird around
[00:22] <teward> wgrant, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/1.4.1-3ubuntu1.2/+build/5587112/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.nginx_1.4.1-3ubuntu1.2_UPLOADING.txt.gz  state = failed to upload
[00:23] <teward> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/1.4.1-3ubuntu1.2/+build/5587112 if you want the actual build
[00:23] <teward> and not the log
[00:23] <wgrant> You'll see there's a separate upload log
[00:23] <wgrant> In this case there was a Launchpad network glitch, it seems.
[00:23] <teward> wgrant, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/166231479/upload_5587112_log.txt
[00:23] <wgrant> A retry of the build will work.
[00:23] <teward> wgrant, okay... want to poke it then?
[00:23] <teward> i can't
[00:23] <wgrant> Ah, right
[00:23] <wgrant> Done
[00:23] <teward> rbasak sponsored the debdiff, bdmurray accepted into -proposed and then this
[00:23] <teward> wgrant, thanks.
[00:36] <wgrant> teward: It's successfully built this time.
[00:37] <bdmurray> wgrant: are the results of getPublishedSources ordered a specific way?
[00:38] <wgrant> bdmurray: DistroSeries.getPublishedSources is by id, Archive.getPublishedSources by (name, id)
[00:38] <wgrant> But I wouldn't rely on the name part of that key; it's not supportable long-term.
[00:46] <teward> wgrant, it successfully built last time if you read the build log
[00:46] <teward> wgrant, it just failed to upload
[00:48] <wgrant> teward: Sure, but it uploaded properly this time
[00:48] <teward> true :)
[00:48] <wgrant> "Successfully built" is only reached once the upload is done.
[00:48] <teward> all's good now
[00:48] <wgrant> It goes Building -> Uploading build -> (Failed to upload|Successfully built)
[00:49] <teward> i see.
[03:12] <dobey> is it possible to get an oauth token from launchpad.net via standard oauth libraries, rather than whatever launchpadlib is doing?
[03:15] <lifeless> dobey: pretty sure lp uses standard oath
[03:15] <lifeless> dobey: launchpadlib just has it wrapped up
[03:16] <dobey> lifeless: are the URLs for it documented anywhere? i haven't seen them in the "how to authorize to lp" docs. they all just say to use launchpadlib
[03:18] <lifeless> dobey: I don't know, sorry.
[03:18] <lifeless> dobey: should be fairly obvious by reading the launcpadlib source
[03:21] <dobey> true. thanks
[03:30] <tsimpson> dobey: https://help.launchpad.net/API/SigningRequests
[10:45] <wgrant> Launchpad will shortly be down for a minute or two while we perform some database hardware maintenance.
[12:17] <mgz> is launchpad still having issues after the downtime?
[12:17] <wgrant> Yes, though it should pretty much be OK now.
[12:24] <mgz> wgrant: thanks, looks like codehsoting is behaving again now
[12:28] <xubuntu__> discussion sur le bug
[12:28] <xubuntu__> le bug 1062282
[12:29] <xubuntu__> ubuntu goes to Mars and i cannot read vidéo !


[00:19] <holmanb> meena: merged :-)
[00:19] <meena> holmanb: weeeehoooow
[00:19]  * meena goes to update FreeBSD & OpenBSD ports
[00:44] <meena> freebsd updated, now on to OpenBSD
[00:49] <holmanb> nice
[01:04] <minimal> hmm, not having a great day for c-i work, having to deal with an Alpine drama :-(
[01:05] <meena> that's my "favourite" part of working in Open Source
[01:06] <minimal> something that I warned to no avail many months ago would be a future problem has yesterday/today become a problem :-(
[01:08] <meena> minimal: i hope you refrained from saying: "I told you so"
[01:14] <minimal> well as I'm the person who authored the PR that is now "causing" the problems I'm getting a bit of flack and am frustrated
[01:15] <minimal> basically Alpinie's Grub package doesn't automatically run "grub-install" upon package updates/upgrades.....yesterday they merged my Grub 2.12 packaging (upstream finally releases a few days before Xmas)........now some people upgrade from Grub 2.06 to 2.12 are having unbootable systems
[01:16] <minimal> meena: I've already pointed out the IRC logs entry of me saying "there *WILL* likely be problems with upgrades once Grub 2.12 is packaged, something needs to be done, here's a PR for a potential way to reduce/eliminate the problem"
[01:16] <minimal> meena: logs from Octobor lol
[01:16] <minimal> October even
[01:17] <meena> ooooooooofff
[01:19] <minimal> if grub-install (in any distro) is not run during a Grub 2.06 -> Grub 2.12 upgrade (or indeed even between minor patches of any version) then the already installed MBR (BIOS) or EFI file (UEFI), plus the modules used for booting are not updated - so you end up with a partly Grub 2.06 and partly Grub 2.12 "installation on your system
[01:19] <minimal> and then potentially "fun" ensues when you reboot...
[01:33] <holmanb> oof, so painful
[01:34]  * holmanb logs off for the night
[01:34] <minimal> holman: Debian does seem to run grub-install in post install, haven't checked Ubuntu yet
[02:44] <sam_> we've had a lot of people hit this
[02:44] <sam_> often where they had double grubs in /boot
[02:44] <sam_> (just in general in gentoo i mean)
[02:56] <minimal> sam_: when I brought it up in Alpine as an accident waiting to happen months ago the basic answer was "well no other distro seems to run grub-install upon package updates so why should we?"
[02:58] <minimal> so in the past 24hrs I've seen at least 5 people "breaking" their Alpine machines with this so far :-(


[19:18] <jrwren> Is it me, or is the 5.11 linux kernel release one of the most boring in recent memory?
[21:25] <Scary_Guy> IDK, but it is apparently the most tactical :P


[13:13] <bluesabre> jphilips_: haven't had much time for Xubuntu this week, so not looked into chromium yet
[13:14] <jphilips> bluesabre: should i file a bug report on it, so have you added it to your list already
[13:14] <bluesabre> jphilips: go for it
[13:14] <bluesabre> Makes it easier to nag the people I think can help
[13:14] <bluesabre> :)
[13:15] <bluesabre> jphilips: thanks for writing up that proposal.
[13:16] <jphilips> do i file it against this, even though its a snap now - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser
[13:20] <jphilips> okay done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1877857
[13:30] <brainwash> jphilips: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/very-ugly-cursor-for-spotify-and-kde-snaps/17118
[15:51] <jphilips> brainwash: thanks. i added it to the bug report
[15:57] <brainwash> jphilips: I checked for older reports and found bug 1838008
[16:02] <jphilips> yep the reviewer mentioned it was fixed in other flavors and was only broken in xubuntu


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[00:18] <sarnold> ravage: is it a country mirror or just listed as "just a mirror"?
[05:08] <IshSookun> ravage, we have a latency of about 80 - 90 ms to ubuntu.dts.mg.
[05:08] <IshSookun> With the server I have obtained, the latency will be lowered to 8 ms.
[05:31] <IshSookun> Question: is it possible to use ubumirror and specify which dist archive to sync? e.g if we want to sync only the LTS versions, is that possible with ubumirror?
[05:55] <blahdeblah> asomerset: Out of curiosity, where is mirror.liquidtelecom.com physically?  My path to it from this part of the world is hilaribad: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/hQZkZfHhh3/
[05:58] <asomerset> its kenya
[06:01] <blahdeblah> If anyone from here tried to fly to Kenya via Los Angeles, San Jose, New York, and London, we would tell them they were crazy, but on the Internet... :-D
[07:35] <ravage> sarnold, it is listed as the only mirror for Madagascar at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[07:35] <ravage> and "up do date" is questionable without jammy i think :D
[07:35] <ravage> *to
[07:40] <asomerset> wow now i am curious!
[10:57] <hloeung> blahdeblah, World Wide Web...
[11:00] <asomerset> i just looked at the actual trace now - v4 suggests you taking the "long way round.... go east until you get there instead of come west instead
[16:49] <sarnold> the earth is spinning through the aether in an easterly direction, so if you send the packets east also, they'll fly through the aether that much more quickly! :D
[16:52] <sarnold> ravage: ah, that's fine -- it *is* in madagascar, and it might save transit costs etc for someone; it's not serving as mg.archive.ubuntu.com, those are handled by the Usual Servers https://termbin.com/n80g -- so that server will only be used by someone who configures it, and hopefully they'll know why they configured it that way
[16:53] <ravage> ok. so that up to date flag just looks nice but has no meaning? :)
[17:16] <sarnold> "up to date on the things it's chosen to mirror" is a sane enough thing; I've heard there's issues with the freshness checks, that's perhaps a separate issue :)
[22:26] <blahdeblah> hloeung: traceroute is layer 3, therefore: Internet. (OK, maybe 3.5, depending on how you classify ICMP, but definitely not World Wide Web. :-)
[22:33] <sarnold> it's on the web now! https://dnschecker.org/online-traceroute.php
[22:33]  * sarnold runs


[10:16] <cjwatson> seb128,sil2100: We now have langpack export cron jobs for disco.  They're in the previous artful time slot, with the jobs starting at 10:30 UTC on Monday (they normally seem to take <90 minutes).  Is that enough for you to set up the langpack side of the schedule?
[10:20] <seb128> cjwatson, hey, I think it should be enough but it seems I lost access to the admin page (either acl changes/I dropped from a team, or I'm looking at the wrong place, it has been a while)
[10:21] <seb128> hopefully Lukasz still has access/can handle the initial export
[10:24] <seb128> ahasenack, hey, I commented on bug #1818431. i see you closed a bunch of similar bugs pointing out buggy setups, configs, etc. But I think there is a real issue with the package to address, even if their setup as buggy we should fail in the postinst if the service is failing to start, it let system is a wrecked status which is never right
[10:47] <sil2100> seb128, cjwatson: let me get to that once I handle the .6 RCs
[10:48] <seb128> k, I would be happy to look at it but I think I lost the acl required as said
[10:49] <seb128> or maybe I should apply to get them again, unsure to how/what team though
[10:50] <rbasak> seb128: unfortunately that's the nature of "server" type packages. Users are expected to change their configurations, and after that if they do it wrong then daemons will fail to start.
[10:50] <rbasak> We don't consider user misconfigurations to be bugs.
[10:50] <rbasak> If that should change, then what should the behaviour be instead?
[10:50] <rbasak> Or are these cases different from that generalisation somehow?
[10:50] <seb128> rbasak, well, to me failing install with a postinst error and letting the packaging system wrecked up is never a good idea
[10:51] <rbasak> I understand why you don't like it.
[10:51] <seb128> imho having a "start job || true" would be better than bailing out in the middle of an upgrade
[10:51] <rbasak> But right now that's how Debian is designed.
[10:51] <seb128> what's the value of stopping the upgrade that way?
[10:51] <rbasak> I've heard it argued that that still leads to a broken system but the user doesn't know that's the case, which is arguably worse.
[10:51] <seb128> rather than just ignoring the failure and letting the install sucess?
[10:52] <rbasak> I understand your perspective. We've discussed this kind of thing extensively. I'm just saying that there is no good answer, and that if we want to change it then it's a blueprint-level thing, rather than something we can address with a few bug reports.
[10:53] <seb128> ok, I was not aware that there was a consensus on that
[10:53] <rbasak> I'm not sure we have consensus, to be clear.
[10:54] <rbasak> I'm just saying that it's a non-trivial issue that I don't think we should be addressing piecemeal
[10:54] <seb128> also desktop and server perspective are probably different in that regard
[10:54] <rbasak> Yes, absolutely. On server packages, users are expected to change daemon configuration and therefore can be expected to be responsible for service start failures to some extent at least, and that's not the case on desktop.
[10:54] <seb128> on desktop the last thing you want is to have unattendeed-upgrades applying updates in bg for you, failing, letting your box in a corrupted state and having a system not booting as a result
[10:57] <seb128> rbasak, thx for the comment, but yeah, I don't have a clear answer here either, I just though we had consensus that failing install in postins was to be avoided in all cases, seems not which is fine, you guys probably gave it more thinking than I did for the server usecases
[10:58] <rbasak> I think we (server) have some specific cases where we consider it acceptable.
[10:58] <seb128> (it does feel the wrong hammer to me though, it should be the admin job ot make sure his machine has no failing systemd units and that they got proper monitor for errors)
[10:58] <seb128> of making*
[10:58] <rbasak> Eg. user installs daemon, user misconfigures daemon such that it will fail to start, user gets a security update -> postinst runs and fails to start daemon -> dpkg error.
[10:59] <seb128> it's not even clear from that in this case it's a configuration problem
[10:59] <rbasak> OTOH, a working, correctly configured and running daemon -> package update -> dpkg error is definitely a problem since that would be a regression.
[10:59] <seb128> and not a bug in the software or a failure to handle the environment around it leading to an error
[10:59] <seb128> yeah
[11:00] <seb128> well imho admins should have reporting of services errors
[11:00] <rbasak> Given my first acceptable case, it's a massive pain for us to be flooded with "bug reports" through apport for those cases. I've got an item to see about sending those to errors.u.c instead, since in aggregate it might still give us useful information.
[11:00] <seb128> relying on postinst failures to tell you about those feels wrong
[11:01] <rbasak> What do you mean by "these"? I've lost context, sorry.
[11:03] <seb128> if you have a configuration error and a service fails to start, you want to know that immediatly/whenever the service tries to start and fail
[11:04] <seb128> but I agree with what you said before, if the upgrade is what makes the service start erroring out, then it's a problem
[11:04] <seb128> snaps solve that :)
[11:05] <seb128> install, test, rollback if the new version fails
[11:05] <rbasak> Ah - so you'd prefer to avoid the postinst failure in favor of some kind of earlier failure in principole?
[11:05] <seb128> yes, I think breaking installs in the middle is a dangerous things to do
[11:05] <seb128> since it might lead to a system which is going to fail to reboot
[11:05] <rbasak> I wonder how difficult it would be to only restart a daemon on postinst if it was running at preinst time.
[11:05] <seb128> which is worth than a failing service
[11:05] <rbasak> Could that be implemented in debhelper/systemd?
[11:06] <rbasak> Then postinst wouldn't notify of failures.
[11:06] <rbasak> And separately, a motd notice (or via PAM after CLI login or something) for services that are configured to run but aren't running.
[11:06] <seb128> right
[11:07] <seb128> well, I guess at this point it's non trivial work so would need proper blueprint/discussion/plannification etc
[11:07] <rbasak> Yeah
[11:08] <rbasak> Right now I put this in my "the user screwed up but we could be more graceful about it" category.
[11:08] <rbasak> I'm marking this category of bugs Invalid still, but all the instances are a valid "affects me too" against a "could be more graceful" bug.
[11:09] <seb128> k
[11:09] <rbasak> Does that sound reasonable?
[11:09] <seb128> yes
[11:09] <rbasak> Thanks.
[11:09] <rbasak> It's important to us I think because we (server) get this category of bugs daily :)
[11:09] <seb128> thank you for the discussion/Explaning your position
[11:09] <rbasak> You're welcome. It's absolutely a valid issue :-/
[11:10] <seb128> there might be still a valid samba bug behind that one btw
[11:10] <rbasak> I'll include you in further discussion on this.
[11:10] <seb128> it's unclear to me if the problem is a configuration error
[11:10] <seb128> or if winbind is failing to handle a type of environment out of the bo
[11:10] <seb128> box
[11:10] <rbasak> OK
[11:10] <rbasak> I'll leave that to ahasenack I think, since he's generally most knowledgeable about samba/windbind
[11:10] <seb128> in which case the bug would be to fix winbind to not error out in that setup
[11:10] <seb128> makes sense
[11:10] <seb128> thx
[11:37] <klebers> LocutusOfBorg, hi! thanks for sponsoring the virtualbox pkg for trusty
[11:38] <klebers> LocutusOfBorg, would you be able to sponsor the pkgs for xenial as well?
[12:07] <shadeslayer> popey: hey, I heard you were looking for PineBooks?
[15:19] <seb128> juliank, hey, did you say you would SRU that packagekit segfault fix?
[15:19] <juliank> right
[15:21] <seb128> k, just checking, thx :)
[15:33] <juliank> seb128: on it. Did we see any crashes on xenial? There's another function to fix there (show_warnings), but it should not be too complicated.
[15:34] <juliank> It's also in main in trusty, so we could fix it there too
[15:34] <juliank> though i'm not sure which releases use aptcc vs apt
[15:35] <juliank> ah they all do
[15:35] <seb128> juliank, I wouldn't bother going back to trusty for desktop fixes at this point, especially that this fix is in the error handling code so it's not like it was failing something would have worked otherwise
[15:35] <juliank> ack
[15:36] <seb128> juliank, looking at the error tracker it doesn't seem to bite much xenial users (did we still use aptdaemon then for gnome-software?), I would only do bionic I think
[15:37] <juliank> hmm
[15:39] <seb128> juliank, yeah, gnome-software depends on aptdaemon in xenial, it was using the backend robert_ancell wrote at the time because pacagekit was still not up to what we needed
[15:39] <juliank> ok
[15:40] <seb128> SRU team, what would be the right place to discuss maybe revisiting the requirement of landing fixes in non-LTS-current to be able to SRU to the LTS?
[15:41] <seb128> I think that rule is not always bringing much value but increasing cost of landing fixes to the LTS
[15:41] <bdmurray> seb128: I think the release mailing list would be a fine spot
[15:42] <seb128> bdmurray, thx
[15:45] <juliank> +0.5 on that
[15:52] <ogra> hmm, any screen specialists here  ? i have an arm board that defaults to 1500000 baud ... seems using screen with that value doesnt actually make it go up to 1500000 but still stuck at 115200
[15:52] <ogra> is there a limit ?
[15:56] <rbasak> ogra: IIRC baud rate is set by an ioctl (or at least can be) with a set of enumeration constants. I don't think it's a free form integer.
[15:57] <rbasak> ogra: here you are: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4968529/how-to-set-baud-rate-to-307200-on-linux
[15:57] <rbasak> Perhaps screen doesn't support that?
[16:00] <ogra> yeah, seems like ... minicom works fine but is a pain to use ... i feel like back in the 90s
[16:23] <seb128> bdmurray, sometime I wonder what are you criterious to convert e.u.c reports into launchpad bug...
[16:24] <seb128> bdmurray, bug #1818540 has 3 reports ever, all on 18.04, 2 in 2018 and 1 in 2019, all on armhf ... for sure that's not a priority for any sort nor ranking on any top 100 list of any filter, how did you even get to it?
[16:26] <bdmurray> seb128: all the crashes were from non x86 systems which I thought was noteworthy but I could be wrong.
[16:28] <seb128> bdmurray, yeah, all 3 are on armhf, which I don't think we care enough to put resources into fixing things like color calibration atm (I'm not even there it works at all on that platform)
[16:28] <seb128> anyway, I closed it
[16:28] <seb128> just feels like a weird one to pick from the error tracker
[16:29] <bdmurray> seb128: okay, noted
[16:29] <seb128> anywa, sorry for the verbose mode, it mostly made curious about your filters/the lists you reviewed :)
[16:31] <bdmurray> seb128: There's a search of successful armhf/arm64 crashes I review and I appreciate the feedback.
[16:31] <seb128> k, I don't think arm* desktop is a thing atm though
[16:32] <seb128> it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix existing bugs, but that ranks rather low in our priority list/too low to be acted on seeing the flow of work on things we care about
[17:32] <Laney> doko: infinity: what's the status of glibc's migration? any way we could help?
[17:33] <Laney> We've got a few bits stacked up behind that which people ought to be using before the release ideally
[17:34] <doko> Laney: I'm trying to figure out what else is missing ... didn't get any feedback about the floating point issues
[20:29] <mwhudson> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-base/+bug/1818285 <- i bet you were super happy to learn all those things
[23:13] <tsimonq2> What is the copyright holder for Bileto? I assume Canonical Ltd, but what should I put for e.g. Year?
[23:13] <tsimonq2> I'm working on a project that involves reusing some Bileto code and I want to make sure I'm dotting my Is and crossing my Ts.


[02:56] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[13:01] <ogra_> oerheks, leftyfb it is (will be, it is not even in alpha state) far beyond a pro tool, it will aggregate *all* security settings including port-blocker settings, snap permissions and any other hardening options, pro will just be a very small part of it
[14:21] <oerheks> :-)
[15:32] <leftyfb> ogra_: To be fair, I'm also upset with stgraber for already states reasons. I'm sure a lot of the community is.
[15:37] <leftyfb> ogra_: got a link to this post?
[15:38] <ogra_> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/nils-buchner-membership-application/42376/9
[15:39] <leftyfb> lol
[15:40] <leftyfb> savage is literally implementing the OSS and hacker ethos towards stgraber's gatekeeping and community-hostile actions
[15:40] <ravage> testing 🙂
[15:41] <leftyfb> yup
[15:41] <ogra_> meep !
[15:41] <ravage> yay
[15:41] <leftyfb> ravage: good on you ravage
[15:42] <ravage> he will me even more mad when he finds out the latest/edge snap of lxd has most of what i did in it already 🙂
[15:42] <leftyfb> stgraber's post speaks like PR from google or microsoft
[15:43] <ogra_> yeah, he kind of turned 180 degree from how i know him
[15:43] <leftyfb> if you ask me, you should get ubuntu membership BECAUSE of your latest actions
[15:43] <ogra_> haha, yeah
[15:43] <ravage> 😄
[15:48] <lotuspsychje> cant wait till the channels get merged with matrix
[15:50] <ravage> soon ™
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> : )
[15:50] <leftyfb> I can wait
[15:50] <ravage> btw let me invite you here lotuspsychje
[15:50] <ravage> (on the matrix side i mean)
[15:50] <leftyfb> lotuspsychje is already here
[15:51] <leftyfb> :P
[15:51] <lotuspsychje[m]> hi hi
[15:51]  * leftyfb shakes his head is disappointment
[15:51] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[15:51] <lotuspsychje> i like the backlog reading on element leftyfb
[15:52] <lotuspsychje> and the tons of more serious issues we will see increase
[15:52] <mandem0110> lol
[15:52] <mandem0110> :D
[15:52] <leftyfb> I have plenty of backlog using ircloud connected to my bouncer :P
[15:52] <lotuspsychje> do you bounce from mobile too?
[15:52] <leftyfb> yep
[15:52] <ravage> i did that with znc on my mobile too. all worked fine
[15:53] <lotuspsychje> cool what app do you use on there
[15:53] <leftyfb> irccloud is for mobile
[15:53] <leftyfb> irccloud connects to my znc
[15:53] <lotuspsychje> lovely
[15:53] <ravage> i just used revolution irc for android. znc has log playback for individual devices
[15:53] <leftyfb> and on my laptop(Framework 13) I connect to my znc using hexchat
[15:54]  * ogra_ uses bip ... in a snap ...
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> the #kde guys have nicely brought the 2 worlds togheter, so looking forward to see the same on the ubuntu community
[15:54] <ravage> happy to report i use element... in a snap 😄
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> because why not
[15:55] <ravage> also my kernel is a snap since yesterday's install of noble on my laptop
[15:55] <ogra_> because it means yet another client i have to run alongside ...
[15:55] <lotuspsychje> is that the snap only ubuntu version you testing ravage ?
[15:55] <ravage> no
[15:55] <ogra_> (there are enough IRC channels i'm in that are not bridged that i need to follow upstreams)
[15:56] <ravage> on desktop it uses the kernel snap for the regular desktop if you use FDE with a TPM chip
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> but i see a lot of dev activity on mobile/element channels
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> so we see an increase of mobile work
[15:56] <ogra_> desktop uses the snap kernel nowadays (as ravage said, for FDE/TPM setups)
[15:56] <leftyfb> it drives me nuts someone posting multiple lines on matrix and IRC clients getting a URL to go to in order to read their post. I will not be clicking on those links
[15:56] <ogra_> (and hopefully for everything else in the future)
[15:57] <ogra_> leftyfb, if you would, you'd find a screenshot png with the sentence you can not copy/paste from 🙂
[15:57] <leftyfb> even worse
[15:58] <leftyfb> I'll have no part of that
[15:58] <ogra_> (i dont really mind the links, but the fact they are screenshots ... )
[15:58] <leftyfb> it's unproductive
[15:58] <ogra_> it so is
[15:58] <ravage> but that is really not Matrix's fault
[15:59] <lotuspsychje[m]> test https://linuxconfig.org/
[15:59] <ravage> i see more than enough IRC users sending screenshots of terminal output. its just bad in general 🙂
[16:00] <ogra_> yep ... sadly also a thing on forums nowadays ... hard to quote (or even read if the screenshots are really small)
[16:09] <ravage> and thanks ogra and leftyfb for the comments 🙂
[16:09] <ogra_> well deserved 🙂
[16:10] <mandem0110> What did I miss?
[16:11] <leftyfb> ogra_: "There are only few people I know on IRC that are that patient and friendly when trying to cat-herd the trolls."  damn, don't think I don't notice the personal attack lol
[16:12] <ravage> i can post the link but i would appreciate not to continue that discussion unless he decides to continue 🙂
[16:12] <ogra_> LOL !!!
[16:12] <leftyfb> :)
[16:12] <ravage> HAHA
[16:12] <ravage> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/nils-buchner-membership-application/42376
[16:12] <ogra_> yeah, the discussion would be worthwile ... just not where he started it ...
[16:13] <ogra_> (i'd really love to corner him with facts *g* ... /me resists the itch)
[16:13] <ravage> do it on his thread about it on discourse
[16:14] <ravage> i had it open yesterday. let me find it
[16:15] <leftyfb> https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/important-notice-for-lxd-users-image-server/18479
[16:15] <leftyfb> that one?
[16:15] <ravage> yep
[22:39] <ravage> Wow. This guy really needs help. And his comments make even less sense now with the precious ones removed :D
[22:41] <ravage> Previous