[02:38] <mfisch> seb128: I looked at the merge for gnome-system-monitor with debian, there's nothing worth merging yet, they took some control file changes from us, that's all really
[05:33] <pitti> Good morning
[05:43] <didrocks> hey pitti
[05:44] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:18] <jibel> good morning
[06:25] <didrocks> salut jibel!
[06:26] <jibel> salut didrocks
[06:51] <didrocks> robru: you will still need to get it deployed ;)
[06:51] <didrocks> robru: so please get kenvandine to do that ;)
[07:28] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:31] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:32] <seb128> pitti, salut, très bien, c'est vendredi !
[07:32] <seb128> pitti, et toi ?
[07:32] <pitti> seb128: je vais bien aussi. j'attends avec impatience le long week-end
[07:33] <seb128> oui, moi aussi, par contre il pleut encore aujourd'hui :-(
[07:42] <robru> didrocks, yeah, I'll talk to ken tomorrow ;-)
[07:42] <didrocks> robru: you mean today, right? ;)
[07:42] <didrocks> salut seb128!
[07:42] <seb128> didrocks, lut
[07:42] <robru> didrocks, nah... if I have to sleep before then, it still counts as "tomorrow" ;-)
[07:43] <didrocks> robru: tssss, my time clock doesn't agree, we'll still be the same day! :-)
[07:43] <didrocks> people on the wrong side of the world… :p
[08:00] <mitya57> km
[08:00] <mitya57> oops, wrong channel
[08:06] <seb128> mitya57, if that was your password, you need a stronger one :p
[08:07] <mitya57> seb128: it was wrong usage of Android keyboard actually :)
[08:09] <Laney> morning
[08:09] <seb128> Laney, hey, happy friday!
[08:09] <Laney> yay, happy friday to you too!
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> hoppy friday!
[08:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, happy rainy friday to you!
[08:49] <Laney> ooh hops
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> did cyphermox ever make progress with the nm-applet bug, where the menu stops responding to anything or updating?
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> it's annoying, it happens to me several times per day atm ;)
[09:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/780602/comments/103
[09:40] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 780602 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu Quantal) "nm-applet leaks memory" [High,Fix released]
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128, want some help? :)
[09:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you should ask cyphermox but it seems like help would be welcome yes ;-)
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> this issue is seriously annoying now. every time i dock or undock and want to change network configuration, i have to restart nm-applet ;)
[09:42] <seb128> ah, that works?
[09:42] <seb128> I got the bug during the sprint, I fallbacked to use the control center panel to pick my wifi aps :p
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, restarting nm-applet works
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> but i have to do that every morning and every evening
[09:45] <seb128> nice
[09:45] <Laney> hasn't annoyed me so much because nm automatically does what i want it to
[09:45] <seb128> well "nice", but good to have somebody able to reproduce the issue
[09:45] <seb128> I run into that but like once every 3 months
[09:45] <Laney> but i'm hitting it atm indeed
[11:16] <Laney> seb128: want to check gsd out of bzr and see if it fixes the permissions for you?
[11:17] <seb128> Laney, sure
[11:18] <Laney> seems to work here
[11:23] <seb128> Laney, worked here with my test user and the patch seems fine to me, +1 for upload ;-)
[11:24] <Laney> rocking
[11:25] <Laney> doing that
[11:43] <dpm> hi pitti, we're testing translations for the clock app on a device with  Ubuntu Touch. We changed /etc/default/locale to fr_FR.UTF-8, but that didn't seem to make any change. Calling the app with LANGUAGE=fr did. What's the best place to define the system language? And the user language?
[11:45] <seb128> dpm, language-selector writes the locale config to ~/.pam_environment
[11:46] <pitti> dpm: I guess you either didn't restart your session or have the lang defined in ... what seb128 said?
[11:46] <seb128> dpm, check /etc/environment as well
[11:46] <pitti> dpm: if you never heard of .pam_environment you can safely delete that file, then it'll fall back to the system-wide default
[11:48] <dpm> great, thanks seb128. pitti I think that must have been it, thanks! /etc/environment on my desktop seems to contain only PATH
[11:48] <pitti> as it should
[11:48] <seb128> dpm, that seems about right, I was pointing it in case, it has been used in the path to store LANG and stuff iirc
[11:48] <dpm> ok, cool
[11:48] <seb128> not sure if some configs have leftovers there
[11:49] <dpm> I think we'll just have to write to /etc/default/locale and restart the session
[11:49] <seb128> "we"?
[11:49] <pitti> dpm: if you just want this for testing, you can also export LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 (or whatever), and start the app from that terminal
[11:49] <dpm> seb128, I'm testing this with oSoMon on a device. "we" it's actually him, as I don't have a device atm :)
[11:50] <seb128> dpm, ok, I was unsure if you wanted to make a touch app change system defaults or something, that would be wrong
[11:51] <dpm> seb128, no, that's for a demo of Ubuntu Touch in Simplified Chinese. We've only got localizations for a few core apps, and would like to set either the user's or system locale to zh_CN.UTF-8 to load those
[11:51] <seb128> dpm, seems good to me, good luck with that ;-)
[11:51] <dpm> thanks, it's looking good apart from figuring out where to set the locale, apparently :)
[11:52] <dpm> pitti, yeah, that's what he did when he called the app with LANGUAGE. We're trying to set the language not per-app, but rather per-user or system-wide, whatever is easier/makes more sense
[11:53] <pitti> dpm: both make sense in different scenarios; on a (essential) single-user system like phone you probably want /etc/default/locale, though
[11:54] <dpm> pitti, ok, we'll do that for the demo, then
[11:54] <pitti> dpm: note that all that can be done through accountsservice, which hides the actual files to be touched and their format, and on phones we can also allow (via policykit) that normal users can change /etc/default/locale
[11:54] <pitti> (not sure whether we have accountsservice on the phone)
[11:55] <seb128> not sure if it's there yet, but it's planned and we will use it in system settings
[11:56] <dpm> pitti, yeah, that'd be for when we've got everything there and we want to make things properly. But for the demo purposes, we can just write to /etc/default/locale? Or is there any part of that infrastructure we can use already?
[11:56] <pitti> dpm: sure
[11:56] <pitti> dpm: not really; language-selector does, but that needs accountsservice
[11:56] <pitti> you can certainly install that, of course
[11:57] <pitti> dpm: but I think for a demo, easiest thing is /e/d/locale, or ~/.pam_environment
[11:57] <seb128> language-selector will not run on the phone
[11:57] <seb128> easier to just hack the locale file manually imgo
[11:57] <seb128> imho
[11:58] <dpm> actually, once the locale file is changed, is there a way to restart the session on the phone, so that it picks up the new locale?
[12:00] <seb128> ogra_, ^
[12:00] <seb128> dpm, sudo reboot in adb or ssh? ;-)
[12:00] <dpm> ok, cool
[12:02]  * ogra_ looks up
[12:03] <seb128> ogra_, just the 1 line before, do you know how to reboot/restart the session on the touch image?
[12:03] <seb128> ogra_, is there a better way that "reboot" in adb/ssh?
[12:03] <ogra_> i dont think so ...
[12:04] <ogra_> you can try to kill ubuntu-session, it theoretically should respawn but i dont think that was ever tested
[12:05] <ogra_> (there is an upstart job that respawns it but i'm not sure teh script itself  actually exits properly)
[12:05] <seb128> ok
[12:06] <seb128> ogra_, that was in case you knew a better trick ;-)
[12:06] <ogra_> well, try it :)
[12:07]  * ogra_ currently works on the flipped container model ... i dont have a gui running to try myself
[12:07] <seb128> will do in a bit, thanks
[13:14] <jbicha> seb128: did you see that bug 1177995 is still unfixed?
[13:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1177995 in Fontconfig "libfontconfig from Gnome3 staging PPA breaks CSS webfonts in firefox" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177995
[13:23] <chrisccoulson> jbicha, is that actually in the archive?
[13:24] <chrisccoulson> ah, it is
[13:24] <chrisccoulson> i bet that explains all of these test failures then:
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-firefox/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128 ;)
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> they all look font related
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> ooh, more font reftest failures: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-firefox/ARCH=i386,label=adt/23/#showFailuresLink ;)
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> it's a good job i run this!
[13:38] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: by all means. I just don't have time to get back to it
[13:38] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I did write a small reproducer before... it's an issue in libdbusmenu somewhere
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah, i've ran that for a couple of hours now, and it hasn't triggered it yet
[13:45] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: it depends of the values for delay and stuff
[13:45] <cyphermox> you got the script from a bzr branch?
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah, the one on the bug
[13:56] <cyphermox> ok
[14:22] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, saw that, I will have a look in a bit
[14:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would be even better if we had the result of those tests before landing a new version of the lib...
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. i wonder how we could do that?
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> i guess, the answer is to have that block the migration from proposed somehow
[14:23] <Laney> that's the plan
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> but i don't know how the test could distinguish between it being a regression in firefox, or a regression in the platform
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> seeing as this is a new firefox version too ;)
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> (the tests all pass in the raring build)
[14:24] <seb128> well, you would assume that the version in the archive has successful tests
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, in this case, firefox is still sat in proposed too :)
[14:24] <seb128> so we should be running the tests from the archive version with the new e.g glib
[14:24] <Laney> you mean both would be in proposed at the same time?
[14:24] <seb128> and flag red when they start failing
[14:25] <Laney> so if you can't tell which regressed I suppose you have to block both until it's fixed
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> yeah, testing the version of firefox in the release pocket with the libraries in proposed would probably be better in this case
[14:26] <Laney> hmm
[14:26] <Laney> you might end up testing something different to what you migrate then
[15:14] <dpm> pitti, seb128, so oSoMoN and I (well actually he) have been playing with setting the locale in touch images, but it seems /etc/default/locale and setting LANG on the shell does not seem to work. Strangely enough, setting LANGUAGE on the shell works. On the other hand, running the app on the desktop does honor LANG. Any idea what could be missing on the localization stack on Touch images?
[15:15] <oSoMoN> dpm: I know what’s going on: LANG is correctly set to zh_CN.UTF-8, but there’s also LANGUAGE that’s set to en_US:en, and it apparently takes precedence over LANG
[15:15] <dpm> aha!
[15:15] <oSoMoN> dpm: if I simply run "LANGUAGE= ubuntu-clock-app", I get the localization correct
[15:16] <oSoMoN> so we need to figure out what sets LANGUAGE, and override it
[15:16] <seb128> oSoMoN, sudo grep LANGUAGE /etc -r
[15:16] <oSoMoN> /etc/environment:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
[15:16] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: poke
[15:16] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674309/
[15:17] <cyphermox> reproduced with these changes
[15:17] <dpm> oSoMoN, well spotted, I wonder what's setting it though
[15:17] <cyphermox> let me know if it works for you... might take an hour or so to reach the 10k updates or what that are needed
[15:21] <seb128> dpm, I told you earlier to check /etc/environment :p
[15:21] <oSoMoN> dpm: setting LANG and LANGUAGE in /etc/default/locale fixes the issue partially: when launched from a terminal, the app now shows up in Chinese, however when started from the UI, it still shows up in plain English
[15:21] <dpm> seb128, I did it... but on my desktop ;)
[15:22] <seb128> oSoMoN, restart the shell, it's still with the LANGUAGE env
[15:22] <seb128> I guess
[15:22] <oSoMoN> seb128: I rebooted already, no luck
[15:22] <seb128> and the child inherit the env
[15:22] <seb128> :-(
[15:23] <seb128> oSoMoN, cat you "string /proc/$(pidof SHELLNAME) | grep LANG" ?
[15:23] <seb128> ups
[15:23] <seb128> oSoMoN, cat you "string /proc/$(pidof SHELLNAME)/environ | grep LANG" ?
[15:23] <seb128> where SHELLNAME is the name if your launcher/shell process
[15:23] <seb128> like that would be "compiz" on the normal ubuntu desktop
[15:24] <oSoMoN> mmm, I’ll need to ssh into the device, /proc is not mounted properly when using adb, give me a moment
[15:31] <oSoMoN> seb128: I’m getting "string: command not found", but if I cat the contents of /proc/$(pidof qml-phone-shell)/environ, I can see that LANGUAGE=en_US:en and LANG=en_US.UTF-8
[15:31] <oSoMoN> which explains why apps start in English
[15:31] <seb128> oSoMoN, sorry it's "strings" with a "s"
[15:32] <seb128> oSoMoN, do you have LANGUAGE back in /etc/environment?
[15:32] <oSoMoN> seb128: strings not found either, but nm
[15:32] <seb128> yeah, don't worry about that ;-)
[15:32] <oSoMoN> seb128: yes, in /etc/environment there’s LANG=en_US.UTF-8 and LANGUAGE=en_US:en
[15:34] <seb128> ogra_, ^ do you know what set /etc/environment LANGUAGE on boot of ubuntu touch?
[15:42] <ogra_> seb128, live-build iirc
[15:43] <seb128> ogra_, that doesn't happen in Ubuntu ... is that specific to touch? why is it doing that (that's buggy)
[15:43] <ogra_> seb128, look at the livecd-rootfs source in the live-build/ubuntu-touch subdir
[15:43] <seb128> thanks
[15:43] <ogra_> seb128, because we have taken the setup from the oem build system unmodified
[15:43] <ogra_> and because there is no installer which would usually set it
[15:44] <seb128> oSoMoN, I guess you should override LANGUAGE in ~/.pam_environment
[15:44] <seb128> oSoMoN, just create that file with LANGUAGE=<whatever you need>
[15:45] <seb128> ogra_, is that run at every boot?
[15:45] <seb128> hooks/48-setup-env.chroot:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
[15:45] <ogra_> no, at build time
[15:45] <seb128> hum
[15:45] <seb128> weird
[15:45] <ogra_> yeah
[15:45] <ogra_> oem build system ...
[15:45] <ogra_> :)
[15:45] <seb128> oSoMoN apparently had it coming back after a reboot
[15:46] <seb128> oSoMoN, did you edit /etc/environment to drop that line before?
[15:48] <oSoMoN> seb128: no, I simply overrode it in /etc/default/locale
[15:48] <oSoMoN> seb128: let me try adding it to ~/.pam_environment
[15:49] <seb128> oSoMoN, oh, just edit /etc/environment
[15:49] <seb128> I though you did that before when you spotted the LANGUAGE in it
[15:51] <oSoMoN> yay, parts of the shell and clock app in Chinese after reboot :)
[15:59] <oSoMoN> fun, I’m getting the time and the date localized in Chinese on the lock screen, that’s what I call a customized home screen :)
[16:09] <dpm> oSoMoN, cool. So I've been reading the scrollback, but I'm not sure what finally fixed it. What did you exactly have to do?
[16:10] <seb128> dpm, drop LANGUAGE from /etc/environment
[16:10] <oSoMoN> dpm: I modified the values of LANG and LANGUAGE in /etc/environment and in /etc/default/locale (not sure the latter is really necessary though)
[16:11] <seb128> oSoMoN, you should just have dropped the lines in /etc/environment
[16:11] <seb128> but both work
[16:12] <dpm> oSoMoN, if it's not too much, could you try removing them both from /etc/environment and leave only the one in /etc/default/locale as Seb is mentioning, to see if that works as it's supposed to?
[16:12] <oSoMoN> dpm: sure
[16:12] <dpm> cool, thanks
[16:13] <dpm> seb128, ogra_, what would the best place be to report a bug for /etc/environment not to set the language in the touch images and use only /etc/default/locale (if that's the way it's supposed to be)?
[16:13] <seb128> dpm, <ogra_> seb128, look at the livecd-rootfs source in the live-build/ubuntu-touch subdir
[16:14] <seb128> dpm, so livecd-rootfs ubuntu package
[16:14] <seb128> dpm,  hooks/48-setup-env.chroot:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
[16:14] <dpm> cool, thanks seb128!
[16:14] <seb128> it has that
[16:14] <seb128> we should probably just drop the line
[16:14] <oSoMoN> dpm: I removed both LANG and LANGUAGE from /etc/environment, and kept only LANG in /etc/default/locale, rebooted, but the app is not localized anymore :/
[16:14] <ogra_> as long as it doesnt break anything
[16:15] <ogra_> thats what i was expecting :)
[16:15] <ogra_> we dont use a proper installer and dont have any tool that mimics one yet
[16:15] <seb128> oSoMoN, can you look to /proc/$(pidof qml-phone-shell)/environ again for the LANG LC_* values?
[16:15] <seb128> ogra_, you just force everyone to english
[16:16] <ogra_> no, i dont
[16:16] <seb128> ogra_, if that was =fr:FR I could understand
[16:16] <seb128> but english...
[16:16] <ogra_> whoever implemented that did :)
[16:17] <oSoMoN> seb128: no LANG nor LANGUAGE in there
[16:18] <seb128> oSoMoN, LC_ALL or LC_MESSAGES?
[16:18] <oSoMoN> nor LC_*
[16:19] <ogra_> seb128, the prob i have with changing it is that we are not allowed to introduce any regressions by pmcgowan request ... so ripping it our means we need proper replacement first
[16:19] <ogra_> s/our/out
[16:20] <seb128> oSoMoN, ok, that would need debugging, I will have a look to it next week, add those back to /etc/environment I guess
[16:20] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks for the testing
[16:20] <seb128> dpm, ^
[16:20] <ogra_> (which i would see being oem-config, but we are apparently not using that so we have to wait for a replacement written from scratch)
[16:20] <dpm> thanks seb128, oSoMoN and ogra_
[16:20] <oSoMoN> np
[16:21] <seb128> ogra_, that's ok, no hurry to "fix" it, the discussed started because oSoMoN et dpm are trying to run a chinese image for demo purpose
[16:21] <dpm> indeed
[16:21] <ogra_> ah
[16:21] <seb128> ogra_, and that forced english config confused them
[16:21] <ogra_> yeah, understood
[16:21] <ogra_> not only them :)
[16:21] <dpm> :)
[16:21] <seb128> discussed->discussion
[16:21] <ogra_> its messy all over the place
[16:22] <ogra_> but fixing it means inventing new wheels :)
[16:26] <didrocks> robru: I guess you'll see that the webapps is in manual publishing mode due to packaging changes (and QA stack being non working)
[16:26] <didrocks> robru: so once you've done the review and tell it's ok, check with kenvandine I guess to publish it :)
[16:28] <didrocks> cyphermox: same for oif, manual publishing
[16:28] <didrocks> mind checking it?
[16:28] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:29] <didrocks> thanks
[16:33] <cyphermox> didrocks: fun, all non-packaging changes
[16:34] <didrocks> cyphermox: look at the publisher.xml
[16:34] <didrocks> cyphermox: the qa stack failed
[16:34] <didrocks> cyphermox: also logs in the console :)
[16:34] <cyphermox> yeah, I know about that part
[16:35] <cyphermox> I mean, oif itself is probably all good
[16:35] <didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, if tests pass and "only" the QA stack failed, there is low chance to have bad test results :)
[16:36] <didrocks> cyphermox: so I would go for publishing personnaly
[16:36] <cyphermox> yeah that's what I meant
[16:36] <cyphermox> I was just commenting that there were no packaging changes, it just didn't publish because the qa stack is still broken
[16:37] <cyphermox> there's a distinct lack of extensive testing for oif though
[16:37] <didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, I think it's good to publish anyway
[16:37] <didrocks> cyphermox: at least, we know that unity is still starting :)
[16:37] <cyphermox> yep
[16:37] <didrocks> that's something!
[16:39] <cyphermox> didrocks: oif publishing
[16:39] <didrocks> thanks!
[16:49] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, where can I find libhud2?
[16:50] <seb128> kenvandine, I was trying to install your samegame game earlier but ran into libhud issue...
[16:58] <kenvandine> seb128, where did you install it from?
[16:58] <kenvandine> the collections PPA?
[16:58] <seb128> kenvandine, yes, well I wget debs and tried to dpkg -i ... maybe I just overlooked on, but I didn't see libhud2 in there
[16:59] <kenvandine> libhud2 is in the daily-build-next as well
[16:59] <seb128> ah
[16:59] <kenvandine> it had been copied to the collections ppa
[16:59] <kenvandine> but i think libhud2 might be a new binary
[16:59] <kenvandine> maybe we need to copy that again
[16:59] <kenvandine> cyphermox, is that new?
[17:00] <kenvandine> yes.. indeed it is new
[17:00] <kenvandine> mhall119_, mind if i copy the new libhud to the collections ppa?
[17:01] <Laney> have a good weekend everyone!
[17:01] <seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
[17:01] <seb128> Laney, monday is an holiday in .fr, just for info
[17:02] <seb128> not sure if that's on in u.k
[17:02] <Laney> no, the week after for us
[17:02] <seb128> ok
[17:02] <Laney> it'll be an even better weekend for you then :p
[17:02] <seb128> yep ;-)
[17:02] <seb128> and apparently we will even get some sun on saturday and monday
[17:03] <seb128> (not sunday though)
[17:03] <Laney> not so much here http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170
[17:04] <seb128> :-(
[17:24]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:25] <didrocks> (and good week-end)
[17:25] <didrocks> see you on *Tuesday* :-)
[17:45] <cyphermox> kenvandine: indeed, libhud2 is new
[18:21] <mhall119_> kenvandine: collections or coreapps/
[18:21] <mhall119_> ?
[18:22] <mhall119_> kenvandine: it almost seems more like something that should go into the SDK team PPA
[18:22] <kenvandine> mhall119_, collection
[18:22] <kenvandine> mhall119_, it is already in the touch images
[18:22] <kenvandine> but people on desktops that want to install it
[18:23] <kenvandine> is it in coreapps ppa?
[18:23] <kenvandine> i know it's in collections
[18:23] <mhall119_> why wouldn't the SDK Team PPA still be the right place?
[18:23] <kenvandine> so we can expect everyone that wants to use the collections ppa on a desktop have the sdk ppa enabled?
[18:24] <mhall119_> that's how they get the ubuntu-ui-toolkit packages, so yeah
[18:24] <kenvandine> doesn't matter to me... i just know the old version was copied into the collections ppa
[18:24] <kenvandine> not necessarily...
[18:24] <kenvandine> they could get that from raring
[18:25] <mhall119_> we're recommending raring users keep using the PPA, since it has newer versions of the SDK that we want them to use
[18:25] <kenvandine> makes sense
[18:26] <kenvandine> we should delete the old one then from the collections ppa
[18:26] <mhall119_> agreed
[18:26] <mhall119_> I need to get christian to move the u1db-qt package into the sdk team's ppa too
[19:39] <sil2100> Dammit!
[20:04] <cyphermox> ugh, unity ci is slooooow
[20:18] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, figured it out ;)
[20:18] <chrisccoulson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.10/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/menuitem.c#L270
[20:19] <chrisccoulson> it clamps the maximum id to 30000!
[20:19] <chrisccoulson> so this fails when creating items in the panel with higher id's: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.10/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/client-menuitem.c#L96
[20:40] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I did notice nm-applet itself was usually failing at 30000
[20:40] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: but with the script I'd get crashes before that
[20:40] <cyphermox> well
[20:40] <cyphermox> *around* 30000; I couldn't make sure it was really exactly that
[20:40] <cyphermox> but this is indeed a very nice find :)
[21:16] <bjsnider> so lucid and oneiric both reached eol on may 9 right?
[21:18] <sarnold> bjsnider: no; lucid _desktop_ eol'd on may 9, but server and associated packages are still supported
[21:18] <sarnold> "It's Complicated": https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest
[21:19] <bjsnider> sarnold, right, but if i'm publishing ppa stuff for the desktop i can justifiably quit doing so for lucid and oneiric now
[21:19] <sarnold> bjsnider: right. up to you if you care about lucid.. :)
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> man, it's past beer o'clock and i'm still not finished
[21:24] <sarnold> :(
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/libdbusmenu/lp1011073/+merge/164545
[21:39] <cyphermox> yeah!
[21:40] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: wouldn't it be better to have the ID a uint though?
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, it would. but it's exposed via a public API
[21:41] <cyphermox> ah, right
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> right, BEER TIME!
[21:59] <bkerensa> jasoncwarner: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Apps/WebRT
[22:33] <sil2100> cyphermox: ping, are you still there?
[22:34] <sil2100> Ok, screw it, I finish this up tomorrow, too late today anyway for anything...
[22:34] <sil2100> See you later guys


[10:12] <lool> Hey folks
[10:12] <lool> I was wondering whether it was a good idea to use com.ubuntu as the namespace for DBus interfaces in e.g. xsplash
[10:12] <lool> Since these apps aren't really specific to Ubuntu IIUC
[12:13]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[16:12] <lool> davidbarth: Hey is it ok if I milestone 420186 for UI freeze after adding an upstream task?
[16:50] <davidbarth> lool: yes, you can add an upstream task
[16:50] <lool> davidbarth: You agree with UI freeze milestone?
[16:50] <lool> its visible by default on livecd boot
[16:51] <lool> I cant add it myself
[16:51] <lool> I did add the task
[16:51] <davidbarth> lool: thanks


[08:11] <wgrant> jtv: Translations continues to try to lure me into its deep, dark traps.
[08:11] <wgrant> jtv: Any chance you could try to dig out some memories of it to advise me on a couple of changes?
[08:11] <wgrant> eg. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/translationsplitter-no-manual/revision/17171
[08:11] <wgrant> I see no reason I can't do that. All the tests pass.
[08:12] <wgrant> But the code I replace is just three years old.
[09:16] <danilos> wgrant, it seems it should be fine, though it might be slower (you'd be looking at all the templates that are not in the sharing subset anymore, but it used to look at all the templates that could have been in the sharing subset but are not anymore)
[09:16] <danilos> wgrant, at least from the quick glance, and I don't have the extra context
[09:17] <danilos> wgrant, the difference is in "could have been part of the sharing subset but not anymore" vs "all that are not part of the sharing subset"
[09:17] <wgrant> danilos: Right, but the sharing subset is rarely going to be more than a few tens of templates.
[09:17] <wgrant> So precalculating that list of IDs should be faster.
[09:17] <wgrant> But I'll profile:)
[09:17] <danilos> wgrant, right, and not(sharing_subset) is going to be a huge number of templates
[09:17] <danilos> wgrant, though I am sure I am missing on some context there
[09:18] <wgrant> Right, that's deliberate, because it's almost always going to be faster go to the other way.
[09:18] <wgrant> I want the OtherTemplate to be the very last filter.
[09:20] <wgrant> danilos: While you're here...
[09:20] <wgrant> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/lib/lp/translations/translationmerger.py#L376
[09:20] <danilos> wgrant, yeah, it looks good, but it has been a whiiileee :)
[09:20] <wgrant> I don't understand the difference between mergePackagingTemplates and mergeModifiedTemplates. The former is used when adding/removing a link between a sourcepackage and a productseries, the latter when altering a POTemplate.
[09:20] <wgrant> The former just calls mergePOTMsgSets, while the latter calls mergeAll.
[09:21] <wgrant> I can't see any explanation for why they don't both mergeAll.
[09:24] <danilos> wgrant, it's probably about leaving the "default" (or selected) translation messages between products and packages different
[09:25] <wgrant> danilos: Except that mergeModifiedTemplates merges over the entire sharing subset, so I think the first modification of an involved template will do a mergeAll anyway.
[09:26] <wgrant> Hm, though mergePackagingTemplates very deliberately sorts the templates, so maybe it's just trying to carefully ensure that the newest ones win.
[09:28] <wgrant> Not sure it's actually deliberately trying to do less.
[09:31] <danilos> wgrant, mergeAll seems to be introduced with https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-814580/+merge/69978 where the important point was about removing a single template from a set of sharing templates
[09:33] <danilos> wgrant, perhaps some of the code is now stale, the above was introduced because old code only seemed to detect when packaging links were changed, yet template might leave the sharing set if it's simply renamed
[09:34] <danilos> wgrant, I can't think of why that would end up using different code paths, but maybe just some further refactoring was never completed
[09:35] <danilos> (leave/join, that is, because this was about a template joining a set)
[09:36] <wgrant> danilos: Yeah, a lot of it just seems to need more cleanup.
[09:38] <danilos> wgrant, oh, definitely... and if you are really in for some fun, just look at the translation views for the +translate page :)
[09:38] <wgrant> (I'm currently just trying to quickly fix some blocking issues with sharing between Ubuntu and other distros, for the RTM work.)
[09:38] <wgrant> danilos: I have that on my schedule for next month.
[09:38] <wgrant> Reworking the way the suggestions are done so the performance doesn't totally suck.
[09:38] <wgrant> Already made some improvements there in June, but a lot to go... and it's quite a mess.
[09:38] <danilos> wgrant, you can simply turn off the global suggestions :P
[09:39] <wgrant> I deleted about 400 lines of dead translation view code.
[09:39] <wgrant> Heh
[09:39] <jtv> Ugh
[09:39] <wgrant> There's still a config option for that.
[09:39] <danilos> wgrant, yeah :)
[09:39] <jtv> Hi chaps
[09:39] <danilos> hi jtv
[09:39] <wgrant> Evening jtv.
[09:40] <jtv> Cleaning up old code?  Great.  And also, brave.  :-)
[09:40] <wgrant> Un-hardcoding Ubuntu throughout LP has proven quite an adventure.
[09:41] <wgrant> (the distros will still be linked more than they perhaps should be, due to TM.is_current_ubuntu applying to both, but that's actually desirable here)
[09:41] <danilos> wgrant, a word of warning, a bunch of those queries were hand-optimized for the DB characteristics at the time
[09:41] <wgrant> danilos: Yeah, but that's all gone out the window now that the indices no longer fit in RAM.
[09:42] <wgrant> Sadly.
[09:42] <danilos> wgrant, yeah, we figured that would happen, which is why the flag is named "is_current_ubuntu"
[09:42] <wgrant> But we'll have SSDs $soon which should improve things...
[09:42] <danilos> wgrant, i.e. as long as they are derived distros, if you can override translations for their series, you are golden
[09:43] <wgrant> Yep.
[09:43] <danilos> wgrant, but I am sure that still does not make it easy :)
[09:43] <wgrant> The main issue with translations is that I don't know it very well and it's a bit of a mess :)
[09:44] <wgrant> But there's nothing fundamentally difficult about this, and it all works now apart from TranslationSplitter being a bit aggressive.
[09:44] <danilos> wgrant, "bit of a mess" is an understatement... sharing stuff is complicated and somewhat messy, but the non-sharing stuff is just mess all around
[09:44] <wgrant> Heh
[09:44] <wgrant> Yeah
[09:44] <danilos> some of the messiness results from the fact that we were running code that supported both old, non-sharing and a sharing model at the same time
[09:45] <wgrant> Right, there are still lots of jtv XXXs around saying that this code can die when sharing is universal.
[09:46] <jtv> And now some of that is going to happen?  Brilliant.
[09:47] <wgrant> Well, I'm not cleaning for the sake of cleaning. I'm making cross-distro sharing work properly, cleaning up as I go, and taking the opportunity to work out how to make suggestion performance not totally suck.
[09:49] <danilos> wgrant, first thing to try out with suggestions performance is to try not to do it in 200 queries :)
[09:49] <wgrant> Yeah
[09:49] <danilos> wgrant, the other thing is to load global suggestions over ajax or something similar
[09:49] <wgrant> I got +translate down by about 50-70% in June, but there's still a lot left.
[09:50] <wgrant> I'm hoping that SSDs + reduced query count will obviate the need for AJAX.
[09:50] <wgrant> Because that's more work than I have time for atm :P
[09:50] <danilos> wgrant, right
[09:51] <danilos> wgrant, you could also introduce an intermediate table for global suggestions that is updated daily or something, because these don't have to be always up-to-date, though that's another complication
[09:51] <wgrant> danilos: I've experimented adding a couple of new columns to TranslationMessage to do that.
[09:52] <wgrant> msgid_singular being the main one.
[09:52] <jtv> It might make sense for the super-common strings, just to get some of the nastiest cases out of the way.
[09:52] <wgrant> But also denormalising SuggestivePOTemplate onto it, which is a bit more of a pain to maintain.
[09:52] <wgrant> But that makes suggestions super-fast.
[09:52] <wgrant> Because they can be done in a single index scan on TM, rather than joining over five.
[09:52] <jtv> *whistle*
[09:53] <jtv> Do we cluster TMs?
[09:53] <danilos> I'd still be weary of widening TM considering the size of it... :)
[09:53] <wgrant> Right, it's a tradeoff.
[09:53] <wgrant> I vleive it's worth it here, but I need to retest once we see how the new DB servers work.
[09:53] <wgrant> believe.
[09:53] <jtv> Yeah.  My instincts keep going "no, don't widen it, narrow it!"
[09:54] <jtv> Worst thing is when you cross some magical buffer size boundary and hit the badness again with what you thought was a really fast query.
[09:54] <danilos> wgrant, for re-testing, try with cases like translations for "New", "File" and similar very common messages
[09:54] <wgrant> danilos: Right, most of the timeouts that are left have strings like that.
[09:54] <jtv> Yeah, I've often wanted to cache suggestions just for those...
[09:55] <wgrant> And IIRC it doesn't even do the DISTINCT server-side.
[09:55] <wgrant> So it'll load 2000 suggestions into Python, and only then realise that all 2000 have exactly the same msgstrs.
[09:55] <jtv> I think we had a case where that turned out not to be a win _last time we checked_
[09:55] <wgrant> Right.
[09:55] <jtv> because it forces the choice of indexes.
[09:55] <danilos> yeah, if it was like that, there probably was a reason :)
[09:56] <jtv> And of course that tradeoff can shift at any time.
[09:56] <wgrant> Which is why I'm deferring all this until we have SSDs and more RAM, which will change everything.
[09:57] <danilos> the blocker for us was that all the +translate views would need serious refactoring to be able to cleanly and easily do all this
[09:57] <jtv> Ah yes, that was another evil at the root of much of this: framework-imposed structure.
[09:57] <danilos> and then you dive into .pts and get even more discouraged
[09:58] <jtv> danilos: I've also been wanting to inject SMT-generated suggestions for selected languages... we have the perfect corpus for training an SMT engine.
[09:58] <danilos> jtv, oh yes, lack of ideas and things we'd like to see was never the problem :)
[09:58] <wgrant> Heh
[09:58] <jtv> Nope.  That was never it.
[09:59] <wgrant> The suggestions are already somewhat separated from the structure of the view.
[09:59] <wgrant> But I'm going to have to rip them all the way out.
[09:59] <danilos> wgrant, yeah, they should be done for the entire batch (just like the actual translations should be, but never were)
[09:59] <wgrant> And then throw in a second batch of preloading, and that should hopefully be that.
[09:59] <wgrant> The translations are now!
[09:59] <danilos> wgrant, ah, cool :)
[09:59] <wgrant> That's one of the things I fixed recently.
[10:00] <wgrant> Bulk loading about 10 types of objects.
[10:00] <jtv> Rob's approach of phasing the preloads really helped.
[10:00] <jtv> We used to do it all in thousands of queries, then wrap it all into one big one.
[10:02] <jtv> Thing-I-would-have-liked-to-do #428: take the header field out of POTemplate/POFile so loading them in UI code doesn't waste so much python time.
[10:02] <jtv> (And also, so the tables would be more compact)
[10:02] <wgrant> I did that with some big filds on SourcePackageRelease. Turned them into a property that lazily loads them for the like one place that needs them.
[10:03] <jtv> I really wanted the headers out of the tables completely.  IIRC almost everything else was fixed-width and narrow.
[10:04] <wgrant> Those should all be TOASTed, I believe, but yeah.
[10:04] <wgrant> It's not very nice.
[10:05] <jtv> I never really looked into TOAST apart from saying hey, maybe large objects aren't needed all that often.  Does it keep the strings separately?
[10:05] <wgrant> Right, it keeps large things compressed in a separate table.
[10:05] <jtv> Ah OK
[10:05] <wgrant> Which totally sucks if you need to read them often, as it's an extra seek.
[10:05] <wgrant> But for these big string fields that's rarely a problem.
[10:06] <jtv> Of course if you have a lot of repetition it's probably great...
[10:06] <jtv> IIRC we only needed those headers for import/export, and it always grated me to have them implicitly handled all over the place.
[10:07] <jtv> Are you going to get rid of SuggestivePOTemplate at some point?
[10:07] <jtv> (Not saying I have a problem with the table, just curious)
[10:07] <wgrant> It needs to be flattened into the suggestion table.
[10:07] <wgrant> Which may end up being TM for cache reasons.
[10:08] <danilos> I don't even remember the SuggestivePOTemplate :)
[10:08] <wgrant> SuggestivePOTemplate just has a single column.
[10:08] <wgrant> It contains POTemplate IDs that are valid suggestion candidates, which I think is just any template in a project that officially uses rosetta.
[10:08] <jtv> danilos: it was just a way to eliminate some repetition from the suggestions query... "all templates that are  suitable for taking suggestions from."
[10:08] <danilos> oh, ok, I guess it came "after my time" :)
[10:09] <jtv> No referential integrity, and the whole thing just gets rewritten periodically, instead of "managed."
[10:09] <jtv> Yeah, that was something I did in my last days on Rosetta.
[10:09] <jtv> I just loved being able to use the database relationally for a change.  :)
[10:10] <danilos> heh, yeah, most of our optimizations involved denormalizing further ;)
[10:10] <wgrant> So to look up suggestions I have to wander through TTI to POTMsgSet to TranslationMessage back through POTMsgSet then TTI then POTemplate then SuggestivePOTemplate.
[10:10] <wgrant> But SuggestivePOTemplate means you don't have to further walk through ProductSeries and Product as well.
[10:11] <danilos> wgrant, you could just construct a helper template linking matching potmsgsets or TTIs
[10:11] <jtv> It was just a very low-effort way to eliminate a few seconds of query time from the page as a whole.
[10:11] <danilos> s/helper template/helper table/
[10:12] <danilos> it would probably end up being big, though
[10:12] <wgrant> Denormalisation is critical to performance on these large tables.
[10:12] <wgrant> see eg. BugTaskFlat.
[10:12] <wgrant> It just needs a lot of testing to work out what's worth it.
[10:13] <danilos> yeah, we moved from joins over 3 tables >50M to a single ~60M row TM table at one point, then with sharing we reduced TM from 130M to 70M rows, etc.
[10:13] <wgrant> And TM is close enough to a suggestion table that I suspect adding a few extra bytes is going to have less of a negative impact than adding a whole new table to the hot set.
[10:14] <danilos> yeah, the only way to do it is to try it out and profile
[10:15] <danilos> though, the biggest benefit of sharing was that TM does not grow another 30M with every ubuntu release :)
[10:16] <danilos> though I wouldn't be surprised if it hit >100M again
[10:16] <danilos> anyway, back to sprinting :)
[10:16] <wgrant> danilos, jtv: Thanks for your help.
[10:16]  * jtv points at danilos, who did all the helping
[10:17] <danilos> wgrant, yw
[10:17] <danilos> jtv, ha
[10:17] <wgrant> I'm slowly getting the hang of translations.
[10:17] <danilos> wgrant, so am I :)
[10:17] <jtv> Beginning of the end.  Any grey hairs yet?
[10:17] <jtv> Oh, the irony ^
[10:17] <danilos> good timing for henninge :)
[10:17] <danilos> heh, same thinking
[10:17] <wgrant> Heh.
[10:18] <wgrant> People say Soyuz is bad, but I'm pretty sure Translations is still more of an unclean mess :P
[10:20] <danilos> wgrant, well, when we did the translation jobs from soyuz, soyuz was messed up :) but I guess it's mostly about where are you coming from, so they are probably both equally bad
[10:22] <jtv> I think it corresponds roughly to the age of (most of) the codebase.
[10:23] <jtv> The closer to the core of Launchpad's job, the older and darker and more convoluted...
[10:31] <wgrant> heh, indeed
[10:32] <wgrant> all the build job stuff has been rewritten since then, fortunately
[10:55] <jtv> Phew.   we will have to start talking about codehosting and it's bloated revision table or the lazr.restful and its funny peculiarities. I guess *all* code is broken until *you* fixed :-/
[12:56] <wgrant> cprov: Heh.
[12:56] <wgrant> Codehosting's pretty OK except for stuff like BranchRevision.
[12:57] <wgrant> And we don't talk about lazr.restful.
[13:11] <cprov> wgrant: right, I can do that :-)
[13:16] <jelmer> :)
[13:16] <jelmer> what about git support ? (-:
[13:18] <wgrant> Getting there, but I've had other priorities lately.
[13:26] <jtv> So... we still don't compress BranchRevision then?


[06:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- andyrock, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3658 Needs rebuild due to new commits (disco/nux). Ready to build (/:, disco/Failed, disco/cache., disco/local, disco/lp:nux, disco/to, disco/update)
[07:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- andyrock, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3658 Failed to build (disco/nux). Ready to build (/:, disco/Failed, disco/cache., disco/local, disco/lp:nux, disco/to, disco/update)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4442 Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:bamf cache., focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:bamf, focal/to, focal/update). Successfully built (focal/bamf)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2162 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:aethercast cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/isc-dhcp, xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/isc-dhcp, zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/aethercast)
[09:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4442 Ready to build (/:, focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:bamf, focal/to, focal/update). Successfully built (focal/bamf)
[09:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2162 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/isc-dhcp, xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/isc-dhcp, zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/aethercast)
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4830 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[15:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4830 Failed to build
[16:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4830 Abandoning ticket
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4831 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[19:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4831 Pending binary packages
[19:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4831 Diff missing


[02:34] <Nacho01> hi i need to install xubuntu i haven't any o.s. installed i downloaded the v. 13.10 and a menu called busy box 1.20.2 opened....can i install xubuntu with this busybox?
[02:41] <Nacho01> hi i need to install xubuntu i haven't any o.s. installed i downloaded the v. 13.10 and a menu called busy box 1.20.2 opened....can i install xubuntu with this busybox?
[02:44] <well_laid_lawnch> Nacho01:  no. how did you try and boot the live cd and did you md5 the iso ?
[02:44] <well_laid_lawnch> !md5
[02:48] <Nacho01> my hdisk is formatted I havent any os installed.....i copy th xubuntu image with nero on a dvd
[03:01] <holstein> Nacho01: no
[03:01] <holstein> !install | Nacho01
[03:07] <Nacho01> !install
[03:07] <holstein> Nacho01: you have the installer iso downloaded?
[03:09] <Nacho01> i downloaded only the iso from p2p, the torrent from the xubuntu page
[03:09] <holstein> Nacho01: so, do you have the installer iso downloaded then? or just the .torrent?
[03:10] <Nacho01> no, i downloaded the iso, 834 mb and put it on a dvd whit nero
[03:10] <Nacho01> !automate
[03:11] <holstein> Nacho01: you dont want to automate..
[03:11] <Nacho01> ok
[03:11] <holstein> so, you do have the installer downloaded then? and you have DVD you have made.. what happens when you boot? just an error messgae?
[03:13] <Nacho01> no, a message of "unable to find a medim containing a live file system" and a "busybox v1.20.2" built-in shell opened
[03:15] <holstein> Nacho01: sounds like you have either a bad download image.. which, you can confirm with..
[03:15] <holstein> !md5 | Nacho01
[03:15] <holstein> or, you have a bad dvd, or bad burn...
[03:16] <Nacho01> ok i m downloading the 12.04 lts and will try with it tomorrow
[03:16] <holstein> Nacho01: if you boot the dvd, and hit shift while its loading, right after the bios creen, you may see a screen that offeres an "integrety check"
[03:16] <fibz_> i've had bad disks pass ther integrity check
[03:17] <holstein> Nacho01: sure.. as long as you know that that is not the issue.. and likely whatever the problem is wil still be there on that iso as well
[03:17] <Nacho01> thanks holstein
[03:17] <Nacho01> i will try this way now, too
[03:17] <holstein> yeah.. i prefer to check the md5
[03:46] <sleezio> hello, can someone refresh my memory on the path to see your mounted drives in your local?
[03:47] <sleezio> google isn't being much help
[03:48] <fibz_>  /media/username
[03:48] <Unit193> Are you talking about mounted harddrives or flash drives?  /media/$user/uuid
[03:50] <sleezio> well, i guess it really isn't mounted, it's a usb drive on my router
[03:50] <sleezio> i used to know the path when doing big file transfers with gsync
[03:51] <sleezio> fibz_, aaah, yes, i see my mounted internal drive there...where would i find the local path to my network(router/usb) drive?...or is there a path to it?
[03:53] <sleezio> i'm wanting to get a list of file names on my usb/router drive in terminal, so i'm guessing i need to be able to see the path locally....?
[03:53] <fibz_>  /usr/share/gvfs/ if i remember
[03:53] <sleezio> aah, looks fimiliar, lemme check
[03:55] <sleezio> nuh, not showing up, but i do recall 'gvfs' being in the path, i'll search
[03:58] <sleezio> nuh, not seeing it on local so i can browse it..i'm guessing it only shows up if mounted
[03:58] <fibz_>  for me in Ubuntu Studio it is:  /run/user/fibz/gvfs
[03:59] <fibz_> yes it bmust be mounted b4 it shows
[04:03] <sleezio> sweet, i figured out a way to achieve this, thanks for the help
[08:32] <CraHan> For those interested (you never know :D), my VirtualBox issue is resolved. Apparently the latest guest additions (4.3.6) don't recognize the X version in 14.04 so they fail to install. Totally missed that error message. The fix is to use the pre-release 4.3.7 guest additions available at https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12623
[09:34] <xubuntu139> Hey all,
[09:34] <xubuntu139> I went and bought a new build with these parts
[09:35] <xubuntu139> graphics card : AMD R9 270x, AMD FX8350 Processor and an Asus M5A99FX pro motherboard
[09:35] <xubuntu139> I installed windows fine
[09:36] <xubuntu139> then I installed ubuntu and when I select it from the grub boot menu it just goes black
[09:36] <xubuntu139> I have tried nomodeset and still nothing
[09:37] <xubuntu139> was thinking xubuntu might offer something new instead of a black screen
[09:37] <xubuntu139> anyone got any thoughts to what my problem might be?
[09:54] <fzninuse> Hi! Is there a GUI tool for settings .pac proxy files to the whole environment?
[10:04] <superprower_> Hi all. Anybody know, which distro has no graphic interface, but has default copy-past-rename-create folder commands?
[10:05] <well_laid_lawn> ubuntu server and mv ?
[10:05] <cfhowlett> !server
[10:07] <well_laid_lawn> even the mini iso might work for that
[10:53] <User_> hello
[10:54] <cfhowlett> User_, greetings
[10:55] <User_> I have one (big for me) problem...
[10:59] <User_> I tried to set the xmodmap to the changes permanent, but command xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap not workin (xmodmap ~/.xmodmaprc too)
[10:59] <User_> can someone help me?
[11:02] <slickymaster-job> User_: please refer to http://askubuntu.com/questions/54157/how-do-i-set-xmodmap-on-login
[11:09] <User_> thank you very much slickymaster-job I don't see this :/
[11:13] <starrats> thanks for the link slickymaster-job, I don't have any problems but I like to bkmk links just in case if I have a problem!
[11:14] <slickymaster-job> starrats: np
[11:14] <slickymaster-job> I'm assuming that bkmk you mean bookmark, right?
[11:17] <starrats> yes it does, my short version, lol
[11:17] <starrats> good morning to you too!
[11:18] <slickymaster-job> and a good one to you also
[11:18] <starrats> thank you
[14:45] <superprower_> Hi, i just installed Guitar Pro 6 from deb file, and now i want to remove it. He is installed in opt folder. Should i just delete the folder? Or is here some light app for this?
[14:57] <Unit193> superprower_: sudo apt-get purge  whateverpcakagename it used.
[14:57] <Unit193> CraHan: Please don't use noisy away nicks.
[14:57] <Unit193> CraHan: Also yeah, hit that vbox issue myself couple days ago.
[14:59] <Decap> sh
[15:01] <Unit193> $
[15:01] <superprower_> Unit193, and how to get him package name? I tried guitarpro, guitar-pro, guitarpro6, but it doesnt work
[15:02] <Unit193> apt-cache search guitar pro  or use USC or Synaptic to get the name.  If you still have the deb file, dpkg -I file.deb  will say.
[15:03] <Decap> superprower_, Just a heads up about guitarpro, its badly packaged
[15:03] <Decap> http://askubuntu.com/questions/149951/how-do-i-install-a-32-bit-proprietary-deb-on-a-64-bit-system-without-causing-dep
[15:04] <slickymaster-job> superprower_: or you can just run dpkg --get-selections ! grep guitar*
[15:04] <slickymaster-job> superprower_: correction: dpkg --get-selections | grep guitar*
[15:05]  * slickymaster-job slaps his keyboard
[15:05] <holstein> you can use a GUI package manager such as synaptic if you are more comfortable with that superprower_
[15:07] <Unit193> dpkg -l | grep guitar   being lazy way.
[15:13] <slickymaster-job> lazy is good Unit193 :P
[15:14] <holstein> lazy = efficient :)
[16:09] <coolgoat> Hello there! I'm having an issue with installation of the 64-bit version of 13.10 via usb, and was hoping someone on here would be able to help. Computer is a Gigabyte motherboard with an AMD FX processor. The BIOS is set to boot from usb. When I let it boot, I get the Try Without Installing/Install/Install OEM/Check Disk For Errors screen. Whichever option I pick (though I haven't tried OEM), I get the Xubuntu loading screen for a
[16:10] <holstein> coolgoat: i would just work back through the variables.. does the stick boot on *any* other machine.. can the machine boot *any* usb stick.. does the md5 sum check?
[16:10] <holstein> !md5
[16:10] <holstein> what did you use to make the stick? if unetbootin, try something else.. of not unetbootin, try it
[16:11] <holstein> try optical media if its an option
[16:11] <holstein> !mini
[16:11] <holstein> ^^ you can use one of these iso's to install minimal 64bit ubuntu, and add what you want/need, such as xubuntu-desktop
[16:12] <coolgoat> I checked the MD5, I don't have another usb around to test with unfortunately, I did use unetbootin, and I'll give the minimalcd a shot.
[16:13] <holstein> coolgoat: dont get caught up and any step here. just keep moving.. keep in mind that the iso's *do* work, and this is something on your end
[16:13] <holstein> coolgoat: just keep going through the things that you can address and test for
[16:14] <coolgoat> Also, the actual error it gives is "Unable to find a medium containing a live file system" if that's any help
[16:14] <holstein> sure.. that could be any of the above issues.. bad stick.. bad method of creating stick.. bad iso.. machine doesnt boot USB proprely. .. bad hardware
[16:15] <holstein> coolgoat: i would start with trying unetbootin if you are not, after checking the md5 sum
[16:15] <holstein> coolgoat: you could elaborate about how you make the stick.. dd? unet?
[16:15] <coolgoat> Yeah, I checked the md5 of the iso and used unetbootin to create the usb I'm using
[16:16] <holstein> i have had issues with unet before.. you can try formatting the stick fresh and try unet again.. or try dd copying.. its quicker to get a result using the mini iso's since they are smaller
[16:17] <coolgoat> makes sense, I'll give the mini a shot
[16:17] <coolgoat> I did try dd before and got the same error, but I'm also not 100% sure I formatted it correctly that time
[16:18] <holstein> sure.. and all your hardware is still in the equation.. same stick, same computer.. etc
[16:19] <holstein> you can keep trying software solutions all you want, but if thats a bad stick, or the hardware is bad, you wont "fix" the installer.. since its not broken
[16:20] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/15425/unable-to-find-a-medium-containing-a-live-file-system-error-when-installing suggests similar levels of troubleshooting
[16:20] <coolgoat> yeah, but unfortunately I don't have another stick around, and the only other computer I have is the one I'm on now
[16:20] <holstein> tring different usb ports, and bios settings
[16:20] <coolgoat> yeah, I've already gone through that one unfortunately
[16:20] <holstein> ideally, you would have *any* other computer laying about.. then you can say "i know this stick works"
[16:21] <holstein> otherwise, you are troubleshooting the media and the machine at the same time
[16:22] <coolgoat> yeah, but this isn't really an ideal situation. the computer i'm on now sees the usb and mounts it, but i haven't tried actually booting into it
[16:22] <holstein> seeing and mounting is not relevant
[16:22] <coolgoat> yeah, that's what i figured
[16:22] <holstein> coolgoat: what you are asking the machine to do is *before* all of that
[16:22] <holstein> coolgoat: at a bios level
[16:22] <coolgoat> yeah, that's what i thought
[16:23] <holstein> all you can determine from that is, the stick is probably not broken, and the motherboard/usb hardware is probably not broken
[16:24] <holstein> coolgoat: you have tried booting a CD/DVD?
[16:24] <holstein> coolgoat: have you ever booting *anything* other than an internal hard drive on that machine?
[16:25] <coolgoat> all i've tried is internal hard drive and this usb
[16:25] <coolgoat> i've got an optical drive but since 13.10 doesn't fit on a cd and i don't have any blank dvds i couldn't try the optical
[16:26] <coolgoat> i'll try a mini iso on a cd though
[16:27] <holstein> sounds like a plan
[16:29] <coolgoat> should i burn it at any particular speed?
[16:29] <coolgoat> options are 8x and 24x
[16:29] <holstein> coolgoat: thats up to you.. its all hardware related.. nothing particular to xubuntu in any way
[16:30] <holstein> what would i do? go with defaults til that fails, then try slower, hopefuly more reliable speeds
[16:30] <coolgoat> right on
[16:30] <holstein> you should be able to at least rule out bios setting issues and the usb stick here with a CD and the mini iso
[17:30] <coolgoat> i've tried the mini iso cd and unfortunately my internet connection is having issues but the installation got up to configuring the network, so it seems like optical would work?
[17:30] <holstein> coolgoat: if its working, sure
[17:31] <holstein> coolgoat: could be a bad usb stick, or something to do with the machine booting USB
[17:31] <coolgoat> it can't configure the network so it can't download the install files but i figure if it's gotten this far it should be fine
[17:31] <coolgoat> yeah, seems so
[17:31] <coolgoat> i guess i'll wait until i can get some blank dvds and try that
[17:31] <holstein> sure.. or, how are you trying to connect to the network? wireless?
[17:31] <coolgoat> ethernet plugged into the router
[17:32] <holstein> that should work. i would let the installer complete, then reboot, and install from the command prompt
[17:32] <coolgoat> well, the thing is, it says it can't configure dhcp
[17:32] <holstein> coolgoat: dont install anything while installing the system, and dont let 'it" do anything
[17:32] <holstein> coolgoat: you will make the system connect after its installed
[17:32] <coolgoat> oh, alright
[17:33] <coolgoat> so i can skip network autoconfig then?
[17:33] <holstein> coolgoat: i do
[17:33] <coolgoat> alright, cool, thanks
[17:33] <holstein> coolgoat: i just break it up.. im just trying to install. otherwise, im again troubleshooting many things at once
[17:33] <coolgoat> makes sense
[17:34] <holstein> i just get an installed system, and go from there
[17:34] <holstein> ideally, it'll "just work" from the installed system..
[17:36] <coolgoat> hmm, i'm not sure if it's actually installing. the screen is just purple with a white bar at the bottom
[17:38] <holstein> coolgoat: id give it some time.. its not the installer you are likely used to seeing
[17:38] <coolgoat> alright, will do
[17:39] <xubuntu364> Newbie with 13.10 successfully installed on Lenovo 3000 N200 laptop (i.e., replace Vista).  However, there is no wifi signal (and it is turned on) so I am assuming a missing driver.  Can anyone advise how to find and install driver.  Thanks.
[17:39] <coolgoat> holstein: is the bar at the bottom a progress bar by any chance? the leftmost part of it is black but doesn't seem to be changing
[17:41] <holstein> coolgoat: id have to see it.. i dont typically wait on "it" to do things.. but it wont hurt to give it a few minutes
[17:41] <holstein> !wifi | xubuntu364
[17:41] <holstein> xubuntu364: its likely just a broadcom driver issue..
[17:42] <holstein> !broadcom
[17:42] <holstein> i would run "lspci" in a terminal and see if you see "broadcom" there.. then, the page above will help you determine what package broadcom doesnt allow ubuntu/linux to provide you easily
[18:07] <coolgoat> holstein: turns out that white bar was a command line
[18:08] <holstein> coolgoat: lol
[18:12] <coolgoat> any advice? "help" doesn't return anything
[18:13] <holstein> coolgoat: on installing? just follow the installer.. if its not instaling, restart, and try again
[18:15] <coolgoat> ah, alright, thanks
[18:15] <holstein> coolgoat: you can talk down the steps you are seeing if you want
[18:21] <coolgoat> restart, goes to GNU GRUB version 2.00-19ubuntu2, options are install/command-line install/expert install/command-line expert install/rescue mode
[18:21] <coolgoat> my instinct would be to go with install but maybe that's not the best option?
[18:22] <holstein> i do normal defaults until it doesnt meet my needs
[18:22] <holstein> the simpler setups.
[18:22] <coolgoat> right on, makes sense
[18:23] <holstein> i say, if this iso isnt working for you, let it go, and try the lubuntu one.. you can install xfce or xubuntu-desktop from there, and it should be cd sized
[18:23] <holstein> you can burn up hours/days at this stuff...
[18:26] <coolgoat> yeah, i think my internet connection might just not be working for some reason
[18:26] <holstein> could be.. that'll be key to the minimal at some point
[18:26] <coolgoat> i'll give lubuntu a shot if it'll fit on a cd. if not i might just put it off until i can get a dvd
[18:29] <coolgoat> unfortunately downloading lubuntu is going to take about an hour so i'm gonna go ahead and hop off of here, but thanks a lot for your help!
[18:29] <holstein> coolgoat: sure.. goodluck!
[18:30] <coolgoat> thanks!
[20:24] <bluenail> Trying to get E17 running under 13.10, but E17 isn't auto populating the app menu. Already tried changing the source in "Applications Settings" to all possible options.
[20:38] <wrongplace> i have broken packages, how do I fix that?
[21:20] <genii> !details | wrongplace
[22:09] <z3r0-sTr3sS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6928046/
[22:09] <z3r0-sTr3sS> who can help me?
[22:10] <bekks> z3r0-sTr3sS: Get a i386 compatible CPU from Intel.
[22:10] <knome> x64 developers?
[22:10] <bekks> Or them, yes. :)
[22:10] <z3r0-sTr3sS> bekks ty!
[22:11] <mmhun> Does anyone have any ideas for troubleshooting why I can't ssh to a specific server from my xubuntu box even though 1) I can ssh to other servers, 2) I can ssh to that server from other machines on the same network?
[22:11] <z3r0-sTr3sS> bekks i can download compatible version?
[22:12] <bekks> z3r0-sTr3sS: I dont know?
[22:12] <mmhun> nmap says that 22 is filtered, even though it's appears as open on every other box I run the scan from.
[22:12] <z3r0-sTr3sS> bekks oh, ty..
[22:14] <genii> As I understand, VICE can't be packaged with the C64 kernal ( that's how they spell it at Commodore, not kernel )
[23:37] <Raghh>  Hey guys and girls, i have an issue with my new laptop! I installed W7 Ulitmate(well yea, thats an issue itself). Anyhow! When trying to install Ubuntu, the installer cant seem to detect the SSD i want to install on... :( any suggestions?
[23:39] <holstein> Raghh: here or #lubuntu?
[23:39] <holstein> Raghh: what, specifically are you installing? is it windows? lubuntu or xubuntu? or ubuntu?


[03:24] <guiverc> a xubuntu install of noble allows me to select multiple partitions for / install  (not remove an incorrect mount of /) ...   https://bugs.launchpad.net/subiquity/+bug/2060896
[03:24] -ubottu:#xubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2060896 in subiquity "xubuntu noble install - multiple / partitions selected???" [Undecided, New]
[03:26] <guiverc> also  maybe of note.. a dual boot install on BIOS/legacy box & no grub scan of other installs was done (this is not xubuntu specific; lubuntu too as grub default .. maybe warrants note in release notes for older hardware.. still monitoring this issue; consequence is no dual boot option offered after new noble install)
[04:24] <Unit193> knome_: Seems you have system mail on the Xubuntu dev server from 2016-02-11. :P
[08:26] <knome_> Unit193, yeaaaaah....
[08:52] <Unit193> You fix?! :o
[08:53] <knome> what me fix?
[08:53] <Unit193> Reeead maaail!
[08:53] <Unit193> :D
[08:53] <Unit193> ...And make nagios stop nagging me. :(
[08:54] <Unit193> Every time I login now, I think "Wasn't this server going away?" then remember contests...
[08:57] <knome> all deleted
[08:57] <knome> had to read a damn manpage...
[08:58] <Unit193> rm -v /var/mail/knome
[08:58] <knome> mail
[08:58] <knome> d :o
[08:58] <knome> quit
[08:58] <knome> like a poem that
[08:59] <Unit193> Ah, I tend to d1-22 then q.  Didn't know that one.
[09:00] <knome> :o
[09:00] <knome> All old messages (any not in state read or new).
[09:00] <knome> i guess d * could also work
[09:00] <knome> being all messages
[09:00] <Unit193> Ooooh.
[09:01] <Unit193> Dang.  I'm going to forget that before I can use it...
[09:01] <knome> just read the manpage..


[17:22] <guruprasad> jelmer, I have reminded cjwatson about your ping. He should get back to you soon.
[17:28] <cjwatson> jelmer: Probably best to file a ticket on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, otherwise we're liable to forget.  I think we should be able to get some statistics for you, but we'll have to work out whether to exclude things like old Merged/Abandoned branches, and perhaps it will be worth going around upgrading a bunch of old branches first.
[17:29] <cjwatson> jelmer: I don't think we care very much about allowing people to continue to push ancient formats, but I'd like to avoid old branches becoming inaccessible as a result of this sort of thing (though whether that's by upgrading them or by retaining support somehow, I don't much mind)
[17:47] <jelmer> cjwatson: Will do, thanks.
[17:48] <jelmer> FWIW we don't have concrete plans to drop support for these formats, but it's something that's come up repeatedly in the past in the context of tech debt
[17:55] <cjwatson> jelmer: Yeah, I can well imagine


[00:13] <bazhang> people who preface their 'support' questions with "Ubuntu is garbage.."
[06:33] <Jordan_U> Lemonpart in #ubuntu
[06:33] <Jordan_U> And k-lined :)
[07:20] <Flannel> meh.
[07:26] <Tm_T> what's wookie?
[07:37] <maco> ubuXubu and lea123... what?
[07:38] <Flannel> maco: looks normal-ish
[07:38] <maco> the "baby" had me wondering
[07:39] <Flannel> she (assuming its a she) greeting him first, in a rather excited tone, so looks reasonable
[07:41] <maco> oh i dont mean in a "he's bothering her" way... i just recall a week or so back, there was a pair of folks getting very PDA in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:42] <maco> so was cautious they may have returned
[07:42] <Flannel> aye, although I believe those folks were actually the same folk
[11:58] <jayne> I'm drafting a blog posting. Do you all mind if I use ##ubuntu-ops as an example of a project that has a -ops channel for reaching channel ops?
[12:18] <tsimpson> jayne: sure
[12:20] <jayne> thanks.
[12:22] <topyli> jayne: it's #ubuntu-ops though :)
[12:23] <jayne> er. yeah.
[12:23] <jayne> I did actually have it as single-# in my vi window :-)
[16:28] <jayne> new blog is up... thanks for letting me use you guys as an example
[16:50] <ikonia> jayne: can I see ?
[16:51] <jayne> ikonia: blog.freenode.net :-)
[16:51] <ikonia> ah a freenode blog
[16:51] <jayne> yeah
[16:53] <ikonia> a nice read
[17:22] <ikonia> I should point out that trying to reason with poutine in pm is getting massive abuse back
[17:22] <ikonia> 7:20 <poutine> what kind of faggot name is matt darcy anyways
[17:22] <ikonia> 17:20 <poutine> I will defame the fuck out of you
[17:22] <ikonia> and other such delights
[17:34] <ikonia> poutine now getting chum majik to join #ubuntu and question his ban
[17:40] <ikonia> user majik now making threats to post transcripts (???) on freenode to expose the oppression of freenode
[17:40] <ikonia> joined after poutine's ban, but seemed to know all about it, so I can only assume someone is feeding him information or he's poutine ban dodging
[19:50] <ikonia> karthick87: hello
[19:51] <karthick87> ikonia: hai
[19:51] <ikonia> karthick87: how can we help you today ?
[19:52] <karthick87> I like to contribute in this channel.What can i do for that..?
[19:52] <ikonia> what do you mean contribute to thsi channel
[19:53] <ikonia> karthick87: this channel is for resolving issues within the ubuntu core channel name space
[19:53] <ikonia> karthick87: check the topic
[19:53] <karthick87> Oh sorry
[19:54] <ikonia> no need to apologise
[19:55] <ikonia> karthick87: so is there anything you need from the operator team ?
[19:56] <karthick87> ikonia: I wanna know abt ubottu bot.Can anyone say me..?
[19:56] <ikonia> karthick87: what do you want to know ?
[19:58] <karthick87> ikonia: how to add ubottu factoids database to my bot?
[19:58] <ikonia> you need to create your own bot and manage your own factoids, it's just a supybot
[19:58] <ikonia> !ubottu | karthick87
[19:59] <ikonia> karthick87: have a read of those links, they may help. Any questions about ubottu should be addressed in the ubuntu bots channel
[19:59] <ikonia> (the channels are listed in links)
[20:00] <karthick87> ikonia: i can found its database here http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi but no information on adding it
[20:00] <ikonia> because your not meant to add it to your bot
[20:00] <ikonia> that database is ubottu's and authorized bots
[20:01] <karthick87> Oke thankyou
[20:03] <ikonia> karthick87: anything else you need ?
[20:03] <karthick87> nope
[20:04] <ikonia> cool, then if you'd like to check the topic, you'll see there is a no-idle policy for this channel, but your welcome back if you need/want something
[20:04] <karthick87> sure :)
[20:04] <ikonia> thank you
[20:10] <ikonia> karthick87: if there is nothing else, as I've said, there is a non-idle policy in this channel, so if you could leave, you'd be welcome back if you need anything from the team
[20:11] <karthick87> ok bye..!
[22:06] <ikonia> taybot: hi
[22:10] <Pici> taybot: Is there anything we can help you with?
[22:23] <ikonia> I wonder if it's a bot
[22:23] <Pici> Dunno.
[22:23] <Pici> We were mentioned on frenode's blog though.
[22:23] <ikonia> yes, I saw
[23:31] <popey> Pici: fyi taybot whois looks like an archlinux user
[23:34] <elky> they're also gone


[00:17] <krnekhelesh> can anybody mark this bug low priority since I am not part of the bug control team yet?
[00:17] <krnekhelesh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/970434
[00:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 970434 in unity "menu bar flickers app name and window title when ALT+F1'ing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[00:18] <krnekhelesh> I have confirmed it
[00:21] <krnekhelesh> anybody?
[00:23] <BEC> i will now
[00:23] <krnekhelesh> BEC: thank you
[00:23] <BEC> sry
[00:23] <BEC> i guess i mixed it up with the installer flickering?
[00:24] <BEC> just a sec
[00:24] <krnekhelesh> you can see the video attached...
[00:25] <BEC> no not this one; but ill check it later when i restart
[02:28] <micahg> mfisch: now I am
[02:29] <mfisch> micahg: and still?
[02:29] <micahg> mfisch: huh?
[02:29] <mfisch> micahg: still around, and I guess the answer is yes
[02:30] <mfisch> micahg: quick question on something, there was a bug that I think the developer may end up marking as opinion, but I'm not sure
[02:31] <mfisch> micahg: it meets the guidelines to mark as triaged, so I marked it as such
[02:31] <mfisch> micahg: it is not our job to mark opinion on something like that where we lack the knowledge to make the judgement
[02:31] <mfisch> anyway, thats not a question anymore ;)
[02:32] <micahg> mfisch: I still have no idea what you're talking about ;) bug # please?
[02:32] <mfisch> micahg: not sure I do (have an idea) either
[02:32] <mfisch> looking for bug
[02:34] <mfisch> micahg: bug #969559
[02:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 969559 in bash "/etc/skel/.bashrc should not set PS1" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969559
[02:34] <mfisch> micahg: I guess it boils down to, should we still mark it triaged if I think the dev is likely to mark it as Opinion
[03:01] <micahg> mfisch: sorry, needed a reboot, anyways, that bug look legitimate
[04:45] <mfisch> thx
[04:57] <alex_mayorga> just restarted after a kernel panic, what do I do to file a report?
[04:58] <alex_mayorga> this is on Precise
[12:31] <UrB> despite danger of becoming a broken record: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/950413 - verification help, anyone?
[12:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 950413 in bluez "Bluetooth connections stalling" [Undecided,New]
[12:32] <UrB> back to the bluetooth bug I pasted earlier: R52, T43, T43p, X32, X41, X41 Tablet, X61, X61s, Z60m, Z60t <- all those Thinkpads have the same bluetooth chip
[14:04] <neurotoxin> Hello, after a recent update of 12.04  on my HP laptop with Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1030 card I can't connect to any wifi at all, although no bug messege is displayed, it simply can't connect
[14:10] <jtaylor> do you have apparmor-profiles installed?
[14:10] <jtaylor> oh gone already
[15:43] <MahboobeAlam> hello there ! i want to be part of the Bug Squad ... but i am new here (to Ubuntu/Linux) ...
[20:33] <penguin42> heck, I wish someone would put some more coal on the lp server in the weeks before a release


[09:35] <micahg> siretart: is there any reason for me to not sync lame from Debian testing?
[10:11] <ari-tczew> hello
[10:11] <ari-tczew> is following traceback ok? http://paste.debian.net/139051/
[10:16] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed:  ^^
[10:17] <siretart> micahg: I didnt' check yet, but I don't know of a reason for divergence either
[10:19] <micahg> siretart: well, it builds on both i386 and amd64 w/no soname change...
[11:33] <Laney> afternoon
[11:51] <nigelb> ohai Laney
[11:51] <Laney> alright?
[11:56] <ajmitch> hi
[11:56] <nigelb> Yeah, lazy sunday evening :)
[11:56] <nigelb> You?
[11:57] <Laney> digesting me lunch before swimming
[11:57] <Laney> ajmitch is up late!
[11:57] <nigelb> Nice
[11:58] <ajmitch> Laney: yeah there are noisy people out in the street
[11:58] <Laney> hah
[11:58] <ajmitch> something about the rugby world cup :P
[11:59] <Laney> wonder why?
[12:05] <nigelb> who won?
[12:06] <ajmitch> nigelb: NZ
[12:10] <nigelb> ajmitch: Neat.
[12:14] <Laney> hoorah
[12:14] <Laney> python-launchpadlib is installed on samosa (udd.debian.org)
[12:15] <ajmitch> yay
[12:34] <Laney> gah
[12:34] <Laney> no dpkg-dev
[12:37] <nigelb> Laney: "samosa" makes me laugh :)
[12:37] <nigelb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samosachutney.jpg
[12:38] <Laney> yeah i do like a samosa
[12:40] <nigelb> I should go out and grab a few.
[12:41]  * Laney proposes dosa.debian.org
[12:41] <Laney> yum yum
[12:41] <nigelb> heh
[12:42] <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/139085/
[12:42] <Laney> tumbleweed: ^ :-)
[12:43] <Laney> & so to swim, bye bye
[12:43] <nigelb> laters!
[12:58] <tumbleweed> Laney: :) any chance of slipping the component in there?
[13:08] <jtaylor> do we really want to enable format-security without doing it in debian? :/
[13:08] <jtaylor> there will be hundreds of failures
[13:08] <jtaylor> there already are, and those are only the new packages
[13:09] <jtaylor> it will be worse than as-needed :/
[13:11] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: there was some discussion on #ubuntu-release the other day http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-release.html#t11:25
[13:21] <Ceno3x> Hello everyone. I've just finished writing a Qt application in Qt Creator and would like to publish  a deb package, maybe even set up a ppa. Could anyone give me a pointer to the right place to start?
[13:22] <tumbleweed> Ceno3x: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/
[13:23] <tumbleweed> althogh, if you want a beginner guide to packaging, I really like this one http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
[13:24] <Ceno3x> tumbleweed: thx, I am totally in need to a "complete idiot's guide" to debian packaging
[13:40] <kees> jtaylor: it is already enabled in debian
[13:40] <jtaylor> no
[13:41] <jtaylor> at least not yesterday
[13:42] <jtaylor> the exporting of hardened flags must be enabled by the maintainer
[13:43] <jtaylor> I submitted bugs until N for the existing failures
[13:43] <jtaylor> but there will probably hundreds more on the next archive rebuild :/
[13:43] <kees> jtaylor: hrm? we must be misunderstanding eachother
[13:44] <kees> the -Werror=format-security comes from dpkg-buildflags in Debian.
[13:44] <kees> any ftbfses will mirror those in debian
[13:44] <jtaylor> yes but almost no packages uses that
[13:44] <jtaylor> with the new dpkg
[13:44] <jtaylor> it must be enabled by the maintainer
[13:44] <jtaylor> see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/09/msg00001.html
[13:45] <jtaylor> in precise is it enabled for all packages
[13:45] <kees> right but those that do are the same between debian and ubuntu. it's just that ubuntu is rebuilding stuff now with the new dpk, so things like cdbs, dh(1) packages are seeing the flag now in ubuntu when they haven't been rebuilt yet in debian
[13:45] <jtaylor> no they don't fail in debian
[13:45] <kees> how is it wnabled for all packages in precise?
[13:45] <jtaylor> unless you enable it
[13:45] <jtaylor> no idea
[13:46] <tumbleweed> we are still exporting flags in dpkg-buildpackage in precise
[13:47] <kees> tumbleweed: ah, so ubuntu's change is that dpkg-builpackage is doing an addition export of the dpkg-buildflags output?
[13:48] <tumbleweed> yes, like debian used to, before debian had hardening flags in there
[13:48] <kees> that's the piece I was missing. interesting. that really will be a lot of packages with busted builds.
[13:48] <jtaylor> yes just look at the list of ftbs
[13:48] <kees> though it is interesting, a lot of those breakages are real problems. not all, but enough.
[13:49] <jtaylor> disabling werror=format-security will fix pretty much all failures
[13:49] <jtaylor> but the issues can be fixed easily too, its just a lot of bug filing ._.
[13:50] <kees> well, if there's a delta on how dpkg-buldflags is used, that's going to be a problem. filtering it out of the export (what cjwatson suggested) might be a good idea.
[13:50] <kees> the point was to make this change incrementally in debian. :P
[13:50] <tumbleweed> yeah, that sounsd like the way of least breakage
[13:50] <kees> yeah, several hundred bugs are in the debian bts too.
[13:51]  * kees must run
[16:07] <jtaylor> tumbleweed: can you attach the patch in debian bug 646369 to http://bugs.bitlbee.org/bitlbee/ticket/786? I'm to lazy to make an account ;)
[16:07] <jtaylor> concerns bug 879730 and bug 757008
[16:08] <jtaylor> afk 15 min
[16:08] <tumbleweed> sure, guess I can
[16:09] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: no account needed
[16:19] <Ceno3x> hey guys, how can I generate a source package for a custom kernel? I'm using make-kpkg kernel_image for the image .deb, but I need a source package to upload it to launchpad
[16:19] <jtaylor> re
[16:20] <jtaylor> oh nice
[16:24] <tumbleweed> Ceno3x: ubuntu kernels aren't build with make-kpkg. Read all about it at wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam (they also have an IRC channel)
[16:25] <Ceno3x> tumbleweed: oh. ok, thanx, I'll look into it. Thanks for the links you gave earlier today, already got a couple of packages on launchpad : -)
[16:26] <tumbleweed> np
[16:29] <jtaylor> Submission rejected as potential spam (Akismet says content is spam)
[16:29] <jtaylor> yey ._.
[17:20] <Laney> bah
[17:20] <Laney> this launchpad-supplied data is worse
[17:20] <Laney> you don't get the email they uploaded with
[17:20] <Laney> you aren't even guaranteed to be able to get an email address at all
[17:21] <Laney> Changed-By: Debian Tryton Maintainers <N/A>
[17:21] <geser> from the LP API?
[17:21] <Laney> yeah
[17:21] <tumbleweed> people can hide their e-mail addresses
[17:22] <tumbleweed> you can search by e-mail address, but not see all addresses
[17:22] <tumbleweed> Laney: if you read the changes file, you can get addresses
[17:23] <Laney> i can get ~changed-by from the parsed changelog
[17:23] <Laney> dpkg-parsechangelog calls it Maintainer for some reason
[17:23] <tumbleweed> you download the changelog?
[17:23] <Laney> aye
[17:23] <tumbleweed> :/
[17:24] <Laney> to get the closed bugs
[17:24] <tumbleweed> yeah, I remember now
[17:25] <tumbleweed> although with the changelog method on LP that wgrant just added, that wouldn't be necessary for bugs
[17:25] <tumbleweed> (err is adding)
[17:25] <Laney> what's that then?
[17:25] <tumbleweed> but probably wouldn't give you uploaders
[17:26] <tumbleweed> bug 833384
[17:28] <Laney> that will give text or a librarian url?
[17:29] <tumbleweed> dunno
[17:30] <Laney> I would probably be lazy and give it to parsechangelog anyway :-)
[17:30] <Laney> unless there is a nice function that can take a string and give me a list of closed bugs
[17:31] <tumbleweed> LP internally uses a couple of regexes for that
[17:31] <Laney> sure
[17:53] <jtaylor> wouldn't it make sense to set -Werror=implicit-function-declaration? the builds fail due to that anyway
[17:53] <jtaylor> only latter
[17:55] <tumbleweed> sounds like it, but I'm no expert there
[18:32] <Laney> ok there we go
[18:32] <Laney> it uses changesfiles now
[18:32] <Laney> if it can
[18:34] <cjwatson> kees,jtaylor: I'm definitely thinking of filtering out -Werror=format-security, but doko wants to get test rebuild results first
[18:34] <cjwatson> jtaylor: you can stop complaining about it, I've got the message :-)
[18:35] <cjwatson> the thing I noticed today that may tip the balance is that exporting CFLAGS=-Werror=format-security causes some configure tests to fail; so far I've only noticed this when it causes builds to fail as a knock-on effect, but I'm concerned that we might be silently disabling features in a few cases
[18:35] <cjwatson> that's the sort of thing a real maintainer is more likely to notice
[18:36] <tumbleweed> cjwatson: when are we expecting the first rebuild?
[18:38] <cjwatson> tumbleweed: it's not on the release schedule, so I'm not sure.  ask doko when he's around?
[18:38] <tumbleweed> will do, thanks
[18:44] <Laney> anyone remember how to get the syncer of a copyPackage synced SPPH?
[18:44] <Laney> ah, creator
[18:44] <tumbleweed> yeah
[18:44] <tumbleweed> in devel only
[18:45]  * Laney gets something with 1.0
[18:45] <tumbleweed> can't argue with that :P
[18:45] <Laney> hmm
[18:45] <tumbleweed> it'd make life a lot easier if we required everyone who did uploads to have a public e-mail addresses...
[18:46] <Laney> so I'll just set Signed-By as creator if it is set, otherwise you get N/A
[18:47] <Laney> might make it difficult to do analysis, having to look at Signed-By for syncs but Changed-By for other stuff
[18:47] <tumbleweed> that's how things are already, though
[18:47] <Laney> also you don't get it for autosyncs
[18:48] <tumbleweed> can you identify autosyncs?
[18:48] <Laney> yeah
[18:48] <Laney> Ubuntu Archive Auto whateveritis
[18:48] <tumbleweed> katie
[18:50] <tumbleweed> I don't think there is any way to tell a sponsored sync (Changed-By is the sponsoree) from a non-sponsored sync (Change-By is debian uploader)
[18:50] <Laney> what is Signed-By for those syncs?
[18:50]  * tumbleweed better find an example
[18:54] <cjwatson> autosyncs shouldn't have Signed-By
[18:54] <cjwatson> don't recall offhand about syncpackage ones
[18:54] <Laney> what about non-auto AA syncs?
[18:55] <cjwatson> nor should they - sync-source.py syncs go through a special queue with a policy that doesn't require signatures
[18:55] <Laney> same, just with Changed-By set to the user IIRC
[18:55] <cjwatson> right
[18:55] <cjwatson> (I think)
[18:56] <Laney> wondering how best to represent syncpackaged syncs
[18:56] <Laney> overriding Changed-By with the syncer would be more in line with this then
[18:59] <tumbleweed> Laney: currently syncpackaged syncs have signed-by = syncer, and changed-by = debian uploader in -changes. That's probably wrong, and doesn't match previous AA syncs
[18:59] <tumbleweed> AA manual syncs had changed_by = syncer, signed_by = N/A
[18:59] <Laney> right, I just added this
[18:59] <Laney>     if spph.creator is not None:
[18:59] <Laney>         changedby = person_to_name_email(spph.creator)
[19:00] <Laney> if sponsored syncs get done then we can put that into Signed-By
[19:00] <Laney> providing it is exposed …
[19:00] <tumbleweed> yeah, that'd match the old world
[19:01] <tumbleweed> question is, do we want the current -changes mail for mat for native syncs to be changed?
[19:10] <Laney> soz, got to go to the cinema. My initial feelings are that Signed-By is a more correct representation of what we're doing, but it's not so much better that it makes breaking backwards compat worthwhile
[19:10] <Laney> seeya
[19:10] <tumbleweed> enjoy
[19:39] <stevecrozz> I'm getting this lintian warning: "debian-watch-file-in-native-package", but I'm not intending to build a native package
[19:40] <stevecrozz> how do I tell debuild that my package is non-native?
[19:42] <ajmitch> check the version in debian/changelog, and check that you have a matching .orig.tar.gz
[19:42] <tumbleweed> two ways. Either put '3.0 (quilt)' to have a 3.0 format non-native package, or have a .orig.tar.gz in ..
[19:42] <ajmitch> what tumbleweed said ^
[19:42] <ajmitch> :)
[19:42] <tumbleweed> check the version, too. And you need the .orig.tar.whatever no matter which source format you want to use
[19:46] <stevecrozz> the original ubuntu changelog entry says: "inspircd (1.1.22+dfsg-4ubuntu1)", and now I've added a new entry: "inspircd (2.0.5~stevecrozz2)"
[19:46] <stevecrozz> what name will it look for under .orig.tar.gz?
[19:47] <tumbleweed> that's a native version number. you probably want to use something more like 2.0.5-0~stevecrozz+2
[19:49] <stevecrozz> cool! i think that's done it... now I have even more lintian warnings :)
[19:50] <tumbleweed> according to debian bug 620960, there is already some progress in packaging the 2.x series, but they haven't finished it yet
[19:50] <tumbleweed> but there is a link to the current packaging progress
[19:51] <tumbleweed> I'm sure patches are welcome
[20:00] <stevecrozz> i'll check that out
[20:19] <stevecrozz> the ppa build machines seem to be taking a lot longer than they used to
[20:19] <stevecrozz> i haven't built anything for over a year, but i used to get builds within the hour pretty easily
[20:20] <micahg> stevecrozz: all depends on how many machines available vs how large the queue is, some builders were MIA for a bit, but have come back now
[20:22] <tumbleweed> if you are doing any significant amount of work, you'll probably want to test build locally, rather than in PPAs
[20:27] <Sp4rKy> W/ 14
[22:21] <wgrant> tumbleweed, Laney: There'll be a new SPPH.changelogUrl(), which returns a path like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcepub/1234/changelog, that redirects to the librarian file.
[22:21] <wgrant> tumbleweed, Laney: (that redirect is necessary to handle private changelog)
[22:21] <wgrant> +s
[22:23] <Laney> wgrant: do you keep track of lp bugs closed with a particular publication?
[22:24] <wgrant> Laney: No.;
[22:24] <Laney> okies
[22:24] <wgrant> It's not exactly clear what that would mean.
[22:24] <Laney> Really? When an upload causes bugs to be closed ...
[22:25] <wgrant> Right, but what about copies, overrides, etc?
[22:25] <wgrant> Does only the initial publication close the bugs? Or is it any publication of that version in that suite?
[22:25] <Laney> LP knows when it closes bugs
[22:25] <wgrant> Sure, but how do we report them?
[22:26] <wgrant> We could reasonably simply provide a list on the first publication, but is that useful?
[22:29] <Laney> I don't know how that's different to "what is in Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed" (besides filtering out bugs on different source packages / nominated bugs?)
[22:29] <Laney> anyway, I can work it out another time, got to go to bed
[22:29] <tumbleweed> also filtering already closed bugs
[22:29] <wgrant> It's not clear how announcements work either :)
[22:30] <wgrant> Currently we only announce some things.
[22:30] <wgrant> Usually the initial introduction of a version into an archive.
[22:30] <wgrant> So that doesn't answer which SPPHs should be blamed for bug closures.
[22:31] <wgrant> Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed doesn't help, since we don't have changes file for copies.
[22:31] <wgrant> And changes file don't make sense for copies.
[22:32] <tumbleweed> I think they make sense for copies. Certainly the sync-sources changes files made sense
[22:33] <wgrant> To a limited extent.
[23:14] <TheMuso> /c/c


[06:41] <fabbione> BenC: ping?
[11:16] <mjg59> BenC: #17331 - does vesafb not get put in the same place in all kernel flavours?


[01:56] <pleia2> if anyone has some time to do summaries, we need a bunch
[01:56] <pleia2> I can work on it later tonight, have meeting then dinner to attend to
[06:44] <pleia2> going to bullet point blogosphere again and audio & video, because tired
[06:59] <pleia2> Unit193: care to link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue386
[23:07] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 386 for the week September 29 - October 5, 2014 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue386
[23:12] <Unit193> Erm, yes, it was good. :3
[23:12] <pleia2> haha, thanks :)


[07:48] <cpaelzer> hiho, were there changes in LP permission management
[07:49] <cpaelzer> I can no more assign people (nor myself) on bugs as I used to be
[07:49] <cpaelzer> also susbcription management looks slightly different
[07:49] <wgrant> cpaelzer: Are you sure you're logged in?
[07:49] <cpaelzer> yes
[07:49] <wgrant> If so, try a full refresh to rule out any cache issues.
[07:49] <cpaelzer> it shows things on the top right as I'd expect
[07:50] <cpaelzer> I hit F5 quite often already
[07:50] <wgrant> Ctrl+Shift+R
[07:50] <cpaelzer> ok, the harder refresh did it
[07:51] <cpaelzer> odd, how that so subtley affected just parts of the permissions
[07:51] <cpaelzer> well anyway I should have refreshed harder hen ...
[07:51] <cpaelzer> thanks wgrant
[07:51] <wgrant> cpaelzer: It doesn't affect the permissions. It probably caused the JavaScript to fail to execute.
[07:51] <wgrant> So you would have fallen back to the pre-AJAX UI
[07:51] <cpaelzer> oh I see, so the JS based UI elments might have been broken then
[07:52] <cpaelzer> and that would explain the slightly "different look"
[07:52] <cpaelzer> interstingly that affected all my tabs
[07:52] <cpaelzer> so the cache might have been in a bad state for a while until I noticed


 oerheks: I think so, it is a computer from 2013, and last time I upgraded the bios was ~2 years ago. I doubt they still support it now, but will double check.
 Yes. Latest BIOS
[00:38] <oerheks> then don't worry about those messages
 But the boot process stalls here
 Sometimes I get one more line:
 Bluetooth: hci0: unexpected event for opcode 0xfc2f
 Could this be a hardware issue? Like the wifi/but card being loose?
 try removing that card / USB
[14:18] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 oziv
 Hello
 vso8
 vs08
 VS08
 us08
 uS08
 VS08
 uso8
 uSo8
 vSO8
[19:16] <Maik> dude
 4703
 4709
[19:16] <Maik> sigh... i hate those bridges
 20CU
 XHXA
 Did the bot just give up?
 😁 (re @adhooooooooom: Did the bot just give up?)
[19:19] <Maik> i hope Sanverik gives up now because it's getting too noisy in the IRC channel
 SGF0
 P0GK
[19:27] <calligar> Hello all, I'm on Kubuntu Focal and I'm trying to compile the kernel using the procedure shown in the Ubuntu wiki, as I want to test some fixes in a wifi card driver. The build stops due to dkms trying to build XFS (a filesystem I don't need right now). If as an alternative I disable the building of XFS in the menuconfig, I get check-config complaining about that and failing the build with an error. I tried passing the "skipmodule=true" argument to
[19:27] <calligar> the build and menuconfig scripts, with no improvement.
[19:28] <calligar> Anyone can point me to a resolution, or to a channel where I would get some tips on the matter?
[19:28] <Maik> @Sanverik stop with that
 As you wish (re @IrcsomeBot: <Maik> @Sanverik stop with that)
[19:29] <Maik> good
 How can I downgrade Plasma?
 I have Plasma 5.23.5 (backports) and it has some bugs, is there a way to downgrade to Plasma 5.22?
[19:58] <Maik> @adhooooooooom not sure but maybe similar to this: https://www.debugpoint.com/2021/06/plasma-5-22-kubuntu-21-04/#uninstall-stock-version
 I upgraded to Kubuntu 21.10 and added the backports ppa which allowed me to upgrade Plasma from 5.22 to 5.23.
 But now I'm experiencing several bugs.
 I don't know wether the cause of the problems is the Kubuntu upgrade or the Plasma upgrade, but it's frustrating.
[23:18] <keithzg> Hmm, my PC back up at the office running 20.04 can open this .rar file we got from a client (dunno why they rar'd up a small text file, but that's engineers for ya...), but my 21.10 machine here at home can't, weird
[23:18] <oerheks> !info unrar
[23:19] <keithzg> Yeah that's my initial guess here, that I have unrar-nonfree installed at work but not at home
[23:19] <oerheks> or 7zip with the rar extention, p7zip-full
[23:19] <oerheks> !info p7zip-full
[23:20] <oerheks> if non-free p7zip-rar package is installed), RPM, SquashFS, UDF, VHD, WIM, XAR and Z.
[23:21] <keithzg> Hmm I have p7zip-full installed but `7za x foo.rar` fails
[23:22] <oerheks> yes, p7zip-rar is seperate?
[23:23] <keithzg> No that wasn't the problem, it was that I was misremembering which version 7za was and which 7z was hehe
[23:24] <keithzg> (I should know better, have to package it up with our software at work!)