[05:44] <halpbatman> hey hey
[05:44] <duanedesign> hello
[05:45] <halpbatman> what's cracking?
[05:45] <duanedesign> some stuff diferent day :P
[05:50] <duanedesign> how are you halpbatman
[05:50] <duanedesign> did you have any questions or just lurking :)
[05:50] <halpbatman> pretty good
[05:50] <halpbatman> got a spare usb thumb
[05:50] <halpbatman> looking for things to do with it
[05:50] <duanedesign> nice
[05:51] <duanedesign> maybe a small linux install, like tiny core linux
[05:52] <halpbatman> i'm just lurking
[05:52] <halpbatman> yeah i got a linux on another flash already
[05:53] <halpbatman> i just found this one lying around in my house
[05:53] <duanedesign> always nice to find another thumb drive
[05:54] <halpbatman> yeah cause you lose them so easily
[05:54] <halpbatman> lol
[05:54] <halpbatman> it's like finding money in your laundry
[05:54] <halpbatman> it's yours to begin with
[05:54] <duanedesign> lol
[05:54] <halpbatman> but when you find it
[05:54] <halpbatman> it's epic
[05:54] <duanedesign> i have not done that in awhile
[05:54] <halpbatman> lrn to do laundry brah
[05:54] <duanedesign> i found a 20 in my coat one winter (had been in their since the previous winter)
[05:54] <halpbatman> :P
[05:55] <halpbatman> jk
[05:55] <duanedesign> what about a ram disk
[05:55] <halpbatman> lol my mom used to hide money in winter clothes
[05:55] <halpbatman> so i'd randomly find bills
[05:56] <duanedesign> guess using a thumbdrive for more ram would only be cool if your computer had limited ram
[05:56] <halpbatman> mmm ram eh?
[05:56] <halpbatman> isn't usb 2.0 too slow for that?
[06:00] <duanedesign> i do not think so
[06:01] <duanedesign> it will be slower then RAM, but faster then swap disk
[06:02] <halpbatman> hmmm interesting.
[06:03] <halpbatman> would this still work if my motherboard only supports upto 2gb of ram and i already have 2 gb?
[06:06] <duanedesign> ummm
[06:06] <duanedesign> not sure. looking to see if i can find the forum post
[06:06] <duanedesign> about it
[06:07] <halpbatman> that is interesting idea though...
[06:08] <halpbatman> just worried about the frequent read/write as RAM on the life of flash drive
[06:08]  * duanedesign nods
[06:08] <halpbatman> say i find a 16gb flash that's 16gb of ram
[06:14] <duanedesign> halpbatman: looks like thread is under staff review :P I will ask my fellow staff members about this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=395435
[06:14] <halpbatman> cool ty
[06:17] <halpbatman> i think for now i'm gonna use it as a file vault
[06:17] <halpbatman> encrypt the crap out of it
[06:18] <duanedesign> we had a beginners team member who made a cool guide on using an sd card or usb as a 'key' for an encrypted drive
[06:19] <halpbatman> yeah i actually found that
[06:19] <halpbatman> but for a 4gb flash it seems like a waste to use it as a key
[06:19] <halpbatman> maybe when i find a 256mb
[06:19] <halpbatman> lol
[06:20] <halpbatman> it's like how you need a id card scan to access work computers along with login passwords
[06:20] <duanedesign> right :)
[06:20] <halpbatman> except you'll be a badass with a diy home setup
[06:21] <duanedesign> seems like a better idea for a smaller thumbdrive
[06:21] <halpbatman> yup
[06:21] <halpbatman> i know for sure i have those old 256mb's lying around in my garage with old computer parts some where
[06:22] <halpbatman> man i remember getting those and thinking "holyyyy ssssssssss*** a 256mb in my keychaiinnnn
[06:27] <duanedesign> right
[06:28] <duanedesign> I was totally impressed when zip drive came out
[06:28] <halpbatman> lol
[06:29] <halpbatman> those were too expensive for me
[06:29] <halpbatman> good thing
[06:29] <duanedesign> 100MB was so impressive on such a small disk
[06:29] <duanedesign> before that I used Syquest drives
[06:29] <duanedesign> those were really expensive
[06:29] <halpbatman> i remember those
[06:31] <duanedesign> they were the size of a small book :P
[06:31] <halpbatman> lol
[06:35] <duanedesign> halpbatman: i saw on newegg they have 64GB flash drives now
[06:35] <duanedesign> they probablly have bigger ones...
[06:36] <halpbatman> yeah i saw a 128gb floating around on the web
[06:36] <halpbatman> too expensive
[06:36] <halpbatman> i'd just buy a ssd at that point
[06:36] <duanedesign> right
[06:37] <duanedesign> i think the 64GB one was 100+ dollars
[06:38] <halpbatman> lol
[06:38] <halpbatman> meh wait few months
[06:38] <halpbatman> it will be where 32gb s
[06:38] <halpbatman> is
[06:49] <halpbatman> well good night everyone
[06:49] <halpbatman> I'm off to bed
[06:49] <halpbatman> duanedesign: thx for your help
[10:27] <s-fox> Hello.
[11:04] <duanedesign> 5/
[11:05] <s-fox> 6/
[14:16] <aztek> hello bro s-fox
[14:16] <aztek> how r u?
[14:16] <s-fox> I am fine thank you. How are you?
[14:20] <aztek> am fine too
[14:21] <aztek> am from indonesia, where do you live?
[15:58] <Unguided> Hey everyone. Is anyone familiar with windows home server's remote access?
[16:26] <duanedesign> compare package versions between distros http://oswatershed.org/
[16:38] <MrChrisDruif> How can Gentoo be so obsolete duanedesign?
[16:39] <holstein> MrChrisDruif: obsolete or stable ;)
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Obsolete holstein, that oswatershed.org keeps track of how obsolete a distro is....but I thought that Gentoo was compiling
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> GTG
[16:47] <duanedesign> holstein: true
[16:47] <holstein> hehe
[16:49] <duanedesign> I think obsolete has some connotations that goo beyond just 'a newer version is available'
[16:49] <duanedesign> s/goo/go
[16:53] <yofel> well, gentoo has stable and unstable packages (latter have a tilde before the architecture), so I would assume they compared that
[16:54] <yofel> at least it was like that last time I tried it
[16:56] <yofel> yep, still the case http://packages.gentoo.org/
[17:35] <Abhijit> hello stlsaint how are you mate?
[20:02] <DrDetroit> hello
[20:02] <DrDetroit> I have been using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS since about July 10 and all has been wonderful
[20:02] <DrDetroit> recently i have accepted a couple updates
[20:02] <DrDetroit> ever since then my machine has been running very very slowly
[20:03] <DrDetroit> I am at a loss as to what might be causing the issue
[20:03] <DrDetroit> I have used top and ps aux to check to see what might be using cpu or memory, but nothing stands out
[20:03] <bioterror> what do you mean by slowly
[20:03] <DrDetroit> yet my load average often hits 2.00 or higher
[20:03] <DrDetroit> It may take a min or two to load irc chat
[20:04] <DrDetroit> it might take 2 min to load firefox
[20:04] <DrDetroit> this has never happend in all the time i have had the machine running
[20:04] <DrDetroit> just since my last set of updates
[20:04] <DrDetroit> currently i have regressed back 2 updates
[20:04] <DrDetroit> to see if it is truley a kernel issue
[20:04] <DrDetroit> or something else
[20:05] <DrDetroit> I am just at a loss as to how to troubleshoot this
[20:11] <bioterror> DrDetroit, sounds weird. are you sure your hard drive is okay?
[20:12] <DrDetroit> I am pretty sure its ok bioterror
[20:12] <DrDetroit> it was working fine before the updates
[20:12] <DrDetroit> currently after regressing back 2 updates i have not seen the problem reappear
[20:12] <DrDetroit> but its still early
[20:12] <DrDetroit> hehe
[20:12] <DrDetroit> i have used both top ps -aux and itop to try and isolate the issue
[20:13] <DrDetroit> I dont know much about itop though
[20:13] <DrDetroit> top and ps aux show no unusual cpu or mem usuage
[20:13] <DrDetroit> it is very weird
[20:13] <DrDetroit> and upsetting
[20:13] <DrDetroit> since i have junked all my winblows machines and turned them into linux boxes
[20:13] <DrDetroit> hehe
[20:13] <bioterror> that's the spirit
[20:14] <DrDetroit> i have been all linux/unix for a while now
[20:14] <DrDetroit> i have been using linux since redhat 3.0 but new to ubuntu
[20:14] <bioterror> wish most of new comers in here does the same
[20:14] <bioterror> 3.0, niice, my first was redhat 5.2 ;)
[20:14] <DrDetroit> debian was my preferred os but i have been leaning to ubuntu for my desktop because it is much nicer than debian
[20:15] <DrDetroit> hehe i still run a redhat 7.3 here
[20:15] <DrDetroit> and i have all the rpm'sand updates to it
[20:15] <DrDetroit> but when it finbally craps out i will change it to something else
[20:15] <DrDetroit> its been running since 02 without a hitch
[20:15] <DrDetroit> so why turn it off
[20:16] <DrDetroit> any ideas on how to try to troubleshoot this once i move back to the most current updated kernels i have?
[20:17] <bdfhjk> Hi all!
[20:17] <bdfhjk> I recently published my new project
[20:17] <DrDetroit> hi
[20:17] <bdfhjk> and I need help
[20:17] <bdfhjk> please look lp:740453
[20:18] <bdfhjk> The idea of bug is that when I try to run new process
[20:18] <bdfhjk> by QThread
[20:18] <bdfhjk> program crashed
[20:19] <DrDetroit> I am a newbie to ubuntu so I won't be any good to you
[20:19] <DrDetroit> hehe
[20:19] <head_victim> bug 740453
[20:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 740453 in as "Program crashes after the second approach of compile" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740453
[20:19] <bdfhjk> yes
[20:19] <head_victim> sorry just getting a link so I can have a look and see if I'm any good to you
[20:20] <head_victim> It has the word compile in it so it's not looking like I'll be much use, hold on though just reading
[20:20] <head_victim> bdfhjk: that bug report is really empty, you should add LOTS more detail
[20:21] <bdfhjk> The problems lay in it
[20:21] <bdfhjk> that I don't know what can add more
[20:21] <head_victim> Well I wouldn't even know how to replicate. I would start by adding in the steps you took and where it went wrong.
[20:21] <bdfhjk> ok
[20:21] <head_victim> That way we can at least test to see if it is reproducible or an issue with your local setup
[20:22] <head_victim> I am not an expert on bugs though so someone else might be able to give you a hand or I'd suggest asking for advice in #ubuntu-bugs
[20:23] <DrDetroit> bioterror 30 min no issues using older kernel
[20:23] <bdfhjk> ok
[20:23] <bdfhjk> I added more info
[20:23] <DrDetroit> too strange
[20:31] <hggdh> bdfhjk, head_victim: a correction -- #ubuntu-bugs deals with bugs in Ubuntu. This is not one... this is an issue on programming
[20:31] <head_victim> bdfhjk: Ah it's not even in a PPA for installation? Makes it hard to troubleshoot if it's hard to install
[20:31] <bdfhjk> Hm...
[20:31] <head_victim> hggdh: yeah sorry I didn't realise it wasn't a Ubuntu program before offering the advice :/
[20:32] <hggdh> head_victim, no problem.
[20:32] <bdfhjk> it wasn't yet
[20:32] <bdfhjk> :-)
[20:32] <bdfhjk> What I can release it in PPA?
[20:32] <bdfhjk> I can simply do that by checkinstall?
[20:33] <hggdh> bdfhjk, as I said, this is a problem with programming; anyway, it is very difficult to even try to understand the issue if there is no deployable binaries, and no stacktrace
[20:34] <bdfhjk> I know
[20:34] <bdfhjk> but I can publish binaries
[20:34] <bdfhjk> because of internal error in launchpad
[20:34] <bdfhjk> when I try to do it
[20:34] <hggdh> bdfhjk, now another point -- the bug you opened is a bug against *your* project... which means the project's developers will lok at it... which means *YOU* ;-)
[20:35] <bdfhjk> I need advice
[20:35] <DrDetroit> hehe me too
[20:35]  * DrDetroit giggles
[20:36] <hggdh> bdfhjk, some more points: (1) ubuntu-beginners is most probably not the best channel for that, this is a channel for _beginners_ -- who, usually, do not programm
[20:37] <hggdh> bdfhjk, (2) even if by luck you were to hit someone here, you gave *absolutely* NO data
[20:37] <bdfhjk> I feel a little lost
[20:37] <hggdh> "my programme crashes" is not enough. We would need source, makefiles, stacktrace
[20:37] <bdfhjk> What I should do ?
[20:38] <bdfhjk> There is a source in trunk
[20:38] <bdfhjk> ok
[20:38] <bdfhjk> So I prepare that all
[20:38] <bdfhjk> sorry
[20:38] <bdfhjk> I am newbie in team programming
[20:38] <hggdh> bdfhjk, how much have you programmed?
[20:39] <bdfhjk> about 10 years
[20:39] <bdfhjk> but I never used the stacktrace
[20:39] <bdfhjk> bazaar
[20:39] <bdfhjk> makefiles
[20:39] <bdfhjk> etc.
[20:40] <bdfhjk> Now I started contributing to ubuntu
[20:40] <bdfhjk> to learn them all
[20:40] <hggdh> bdfhjk, what`language is this programme of yours?
[20:40] <bdfhjk> c++
[20:40] <hggdh> bdfhjk, and how much have you programmed in C++?
[20:41] <bdfhjk> in c++ about ~5 years
[20:41] <bdfhjk> before in python
[20:41] <bdfhjk> sorry
[20:41] <bdfhjk> pascal
[20:41] <bdfhjk> :-)
[20:41] <hggdh> heh
[20:41] <bdfhjk> now I also program in python
[20:41] <bdfhjk> but
[20:42] <bdfhjk> I don't say that I am skilled
[20:42] <bdfhjk> I am still learning
[20:42] <bdfhjk> And this is my second program with uses threads
[20:42] <hggdh> now, when a program crashes, usually you get error messages; if you have compiled it with debug set, you should have a bit more of data
[20:42] <bdfhjk> I do all with the documentations
[20:42] <hggdh> so one option is do run it under gdb
[20:43] <bdfhjk> ok
[20:43] <bdfhjk> I improve raport
[20:43] <bdfhjk> but
[20:44] <bdfhjk> so I must include
[20:44] <bdfhjk> stacktrace
[20:44] <bdfhjk> log from gdb
[20:44] <hggdh> bdfhjk, oh, you were the one to add the -w to apport
[20:44] <bdfhjk> but I can't use apport
[20:44] <bdfhjk> It not working in my computer
[20:44] <hggdh> no, because this is not an ubuntu package
[20:45] <bdfhjk> Not that
[20:45] <bdfhjk> apport not working at all
[20:45] <bdfhjk> it freeze when I tried to use it
[20:45] <hggdh> bdfhjk, when you ask for help on this issue, yes, you have to have stacktrace, buildable sources, the whole nine yards
[20:45] <bdfhjk> for antoher, ubuntu pckages
[20:46] <hggdh> bdfhjk, apport will *NOT* work for your issue
[20:46] <bdfhjk> ok
[20:46] <bdfhjk> What is the best way to generate makefile?
[20:46] <hggdh> no matter what else. Apport will not work for Ubuntu packages...
[20:46] <bdfhjk> I using QTCreator
[20:47] <hggdh> heh
[20:47] <yofel> hm, how did you crash it?
[20:47] <hggdh> now you reached my limit, I am not a QT programmer
[20:47] <yofel> I did manage to compile it, but without steps to crash it we can't help ;)
[20:47] <hggdh> oh saint yofel comes to the rescue :-)
[20:47] <head_victim> It's like a tag team in here :)
[20:48]  * head_victim barracks from the sidelines
[20:48] <yofel> well, not that I know much about Qt, but I did a bit basic qt stuff in the past
[20:48] <bdfhjk> To crash my program
[20:48] <bdfhjk> click on 'education'
[20:48] <bdfhjk> get first task
[20:48] <bdfhjk> start it
[20:48] <bdfhjk> send any file
[20:49] <bdfhjk> if you do this one time it should work
[20:49] <bdfhjk> but if you do this second
[20:49] <bdfhjk> It will crash
[20:49] <bdfhjk> This is a tester for .cpp programs
[20:50] <yofel> bdfhjk: no 'education' to see here http://yofel.dyndns.org/pics/ext/as.png
[20:50] <bdfhjk> sorry
[20:51] <bdfhjk> school
[20:51] <bdfhjk> Thanks for help You all
[20:51] <bdfhjk> :-)
[20:51] <bdfhjk> I don't know how to solve it
[20:52] <bdfhjk> It looks like a newbie error
[20:54] <bdfhjk> yofel: Do You see this issue?
[20:54] <yofel> let me first write a helloworld that complies to your rules :P
[20:54] <bdfhjk> ok :-)
[20:56] <yofel> heh, first bug: the ok message is: Accepted
[20:57] <bdfhjk> I forgot about this :-)
[20:57] <bdfhjk> Try solve another
[20:58] <bdfhjk> or the same
[21:00] <yofel> hm...
[21:00] <AJH101> hi i downloaded and installed google earth but it wont launch. any ideas?
[21:01] <head_victim> AJH101: does it give you any errors?
[21:01] <AJH101> nothing at all
[21:01] <head_victim> I'd suggest running it from the terminal and seeing what the output is
[21:02] <AJH101> ok i can cut and paste (!) what command please?
[21:02] <yofel> bdfhjk: once I solved the first task, it always tells me that it accepted it, regardless of the file I give it
[21:03] <bdfhjk> yofel: Also if You close it and try to solve another?
[21:03] <yofel> no, then it works, but I can't get it to crash yet
[21:03] <head_victim> AJH101: actually, which method did you use to install it? I found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleEarth which might be helpful
[21:03] <bdfhjk> yofel: hm...
[21:04] <bdfhjk> My computer is strange...
[21:04] <bdfhjk> So you can do more than one solve (file send), and it not crash?
[21:06] <yofel> bdfhjk: I can send as many files as I want, If they're not cpp files I get a ton of compile errors to stderr but it doesn't crash
[21:08] <AJH101> head_victim: eureka! thanks very much
[21:08] <head_victim> AJH101: glad I could help :)
[21:10] <head_victim> I wish I knew that USB floppy drives were full of fail before I paid 12 dollars for this one :/
[21:10] <bioterror> floppy drives?!
[21:10] <head_victim> (I must admit though, was a nice bargain at 99cents plus postage)
[21:10] <bioterror> 1980's called me and said that head_victim should return their piece of techology back
[21:10] <head_victim> Yeah I came across some old ones from my Uni days that have some assignments and stuff on them I want to assimilate into my storage
[21:11] <head_victim> I figured it would be easier to use a USB floppy drive instead of trying to install an internal one
[21:11] <bioterror> I hope you have nice 256 color gif files of Pamela Anderson and some other playboy models on those disks
[21:12] <head_victim> No actually more presentations for my cognitive neuroscience assignments :/
[21:12] <head_victim> Really interesting if you want to know about research into visual illusions from 10 years ago.
[21:12] <bdfhjk> yofel: Please look one more at bug 740453, I added backtrace
[21:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 740453 in as "Program crashes after the second approach of compile" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740453
[21:12] <head_victim> OHHHHHHH I got it to work. I'm awesome and stuff. I love google
[21:13] <bioterror> head_victim, trust me, I have done some real research about visual illusions ;)
[21:14] <bdfhjk> yofel: mayby You have any idea, with is the cause of this bug in my computer
[21:14] <head_victim> bioterror: as have I..... I was looking at stabilising images on the retina so I could super impose small eye movements to try and determine what type of small movement caused particular types of illusions so that I could try and break down why the illusions occurred.
[21:24] <yofel> bdfhjk: probably a thread issue, but I don't know enough to help here I fear :/
[21:24] <tdn> Hi, can someone try to reproduce bug 731340 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/731340)? Or tell me if there is anything more I can do in order to help isolate the cause of this bug?
[21:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 731340 in linux "LUKS is extremely slow on amd64 builds but not on i386" [Undecided,New]
[21:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 731340 in linux "LUKS is extremely slow on amd64 builds but not on i386" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/731340
[21:24] <bdfhjk> yofel: ok
[21:25] <bdfhjk> yofel: Thanks for checking
[21:25] <bdfhjk> :-)
[21:26] <yofel> np. Btw. there's no sense in having the Makefiles in bzr. I still had to run qmake first to get something that builds
[21:26] <bdfhjk> qmake?
[21:26] <bdfhjk> so You compiled project by QMake?
[21:27] <yofel> well, qmake as.pro && make
[21:27] <maheanuu> Hello, I am having a problem, I minimize a folder and a page but I cannot get it to maximize when I click on the icon I am using Ubuntu 10.10
[21:27] <yofel> I got make errors with just make
[21:28] <bdfhjk> I always used QTCreator to compile
[21:28] <bdfhjk> :-)
[21:28] <bdfhjk> How prepare the package?
[21:30] <yofel> errr... I have no experience packaging something that uses qmake, it's not exactly firendly for that :S
[21:30] <bdfhjk> :-)
[21:31] <bdfhjk> so You are the first people
[21:31] <bdfhjk> 'person
[21:32] <bdfhjk> who see this project
[21:32] <bdfhjk> what do You think about it
[21:32] <bdfhjk> What You will change in it?
[21:36] <yofel> bdfhjk: does it remember if you passed a test? if yes it would be nice if it would tell you so. Also, once you have passed a test it shouldn't Accept files with random data as valid program sources (or maybe disable the button?)
[21:36] <yofel> stopping the counter at the top once you have a correct program would also be an idea
[21:37] <bdfhjk> Yes, I must do it
[21:37] <bdfhjk> Do you think this project have chance to be included in ubuntu repository?
[21:38] <yofel> ah, and the instructions for 'loop' aren't clear: "The last line should be empty." - is that a complete new line? Here it accepted it only when the last line was terminated with \n, not with a completely empty line printed
[21:38] <bdfhjk> hm...
[21:38] <bdfhjk> I always think, that is the same :-)
[21:39] <bdfhjk> In the future
[21:39] <bdfhjk> I plan to remove white chars from end of file before validate
[21:40] <yofel> well, once it works right, I think some poeple might find it useful. You can work together with the MOTU team to get it into the archive in that case. Just file a packaging request at that time
[21:44] <bdfhjk> ok
[21:44] <bdfhjk> So I back to work
[21:44] <bdfhjk> Thanks for all one more :-)
[22:15] <head_victim> Anyone have any good ideas on how to troubleshoot keyboard/mouse input locking up?
[22:17] <jhanafrog> just the basics, different port(s) or different keyboard
[22:19] <head_victim> jhanafrog: yeah all tried :/ I'm hoping it's the KVM so I can swap that out and it shuold all work again but until I get another kvm no real way of testing it without large dramas
[22:19] <head_victim> I was hoping there was some magical monitoring program I didn't know about :P


[14:59] <chillysurfer> i'm probably reading this wrong, but if we have an exit hook for dhclient (https://git.launchpad.net/cloud-init/tree/tools/hook-dhclient) unless `cloud-init dhclient-hook` returns a non-zero return code then dhclient will never fail, right?
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: That feels like a precursor to a real question. ;)  What's prompting you to ask?
[15:04] <chillysurfer> Odd_Bloke: haha the reason i'm asking is that we're seeing empty dhcp lease files and i'm following the trail back to this. i see in cloudinit.net.dhcp.dhcp_discovery that we would fail for a non-zero return code, and we are passing in the -1 opt to dhclient which would indicate it _would_ be a non-zero return code if dhclient fails, which had me scratching my head
[15:04] <chillysurfer> and then i saw that we have this dhclient exit hook
[15:05] <chillysurfer> and visually consuming it, it seems like this would hide a non-zero return code from dhclient main lease mechanism
[15:06] <chillysurfer> unless ::is azure and cloud-init dhclient-hook fails:: in which case i think we would get nonzero rc
[15:06] <chillysurfer> well... add the condition there that $reason is one of [BOUND, DOWN, RELEASE, REBOOT, STOP, EXPIRE]
[15:09] <Odd_Bloke> OK, I don't really know enough about dhclient to answer this off-hand, and I'm about to head into a meeting.
[15:11] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: A bug report capturing the information you have might be the best next step, so that we aren't having to refer people to IRC backlog.
[15:13] <Odd_Bloke> But I agree with your assessment, it looks like we would mask a failure.
[15:13] <Odd_Bloke> Well, I'm not sure it's "masking", per se.
[15:14] <Odd_Bloke> Because it daemonises, it's not clear that we have easy access to an indication that there was an error.
[15:16] <chillysurfer> Odd_Bloke: totally agreed, and good point. i'll create a bug report!
[15:18] <Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
[15:30] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Is there some specific reason we need a cloud-init FFe?  Or is it just because we know we're going to want to continue snapshotting?
[15:32] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: my understanding was that while we have an SRU exception for bringing things back, we're still supposed to land features by freeze date and if aren't going to make freeze to do FFe
[15:33] <rharper> historically we've not been great on doing that; so attempting to rectify that;  (assuming my understand is correct w.r.t the need for FFe)
[15:39] <blackboxsw> oops
[15:46] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: I just commented on some weird indentation in https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371546 and it looks like the autolander failed, so maybe we could fix that before it lands?
[15:48] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: will do
[15:51] <Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
[16:11] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: rharper looks like auto-lander is failing due to slow git.launchpad response time
[16:11] <blackboxsw> "ERROR: Timeout after 10 minutes" on git fetc
[16:11] <blackboxsw> "ERROR: Timeout after 10 minutes" on git fetch
[16:17] <chillysurfer> is there any official guide/doc on creating a custom cloud-init module?
[16:18] <chillysurfer> i see cc_foo.py https://git.launchpad.net/cloud-init/tree/cloudinit/config/cc_foo.py but was wondering if there was anything beyond this sample module
[16:19] <Odd_Bloke> I'm not aware of any.
[16:20] <chillysurfer> seems straightforward to construct a module, but i'm more curious to the "install" process. i guess it's just cp'ing a module file into the python cloudinit dist in the cloudinit/config/ dir
[16:21] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: You'd also need to modify the /etc/cloud/... configuration to actually get the module to run.
[16:21] <Odd_Bloke> (I think.)
[16:22] <chillysurfer> Odd_Bloke: yeah that makes sense. need to add the module name to the respective config section
[16:24] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: You can also pass config modules in as user-data.
[16:24] <Odd_Bloke> But that's about as much as I know about that. :p
[16:24] <chillysurfer> Odd_Bloke: sounds like a good start to me :)
[16:24] <blackboxsw> ok internal fixes on git.launchpad in progress. CI builds should come back out
[16:26] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: chillysurfer correct. drop-in custom config modules can just be added to the installed cloudinit/config directory and an addition in one of the modules sections in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[16:26] <chillysurfer> blackboxsw: awesome thanks!
[16:26] <blackboxsw> cloudinit/stages does a find_modules lookup for any module that contains a 'handle' function
[16:33] <blackboxsw> chillysurfer: if your config module solves a public early-config need, we'd also be interested helping you  push that confent upstream
[16:33] <blackboxsw> *public* or *more general*
[16:40] <chillysurfer> blackboxsw: i don't think it'll be so helpful. i'm tossing around ideas to prevent userdata from overwriting vendordata. if the same config sections are present in both, vendordata is overwritten (never merged). i was thinking a possible solution to that is to create an "internal" module and use that to specify vendordata actions
[16:48] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: rharper: https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371673 <-- this is the refactoring in preparation for the dracut stuff that I mentioned at stand-up
[16:49] <Odd_Bloke> We don't necessarily need to land it as-is (though that will make the review of the dracut-specific stuff easier), but I would appreciate some review so that I can course-correct sooner rather than later.
[16:49] <Odd_Bloke> (Ideally, I'd have this all done and landed by EOW, because I'm on vacation for the next 6 working days, hence pushing the review sooner than I might otherwise.)
[16:49] <Odd_Bloke> But, to be clear, I think this is appropriate for inclusion in master, it shouldn't change any behaviour.
[16:51] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: cool
[17:11] <blackboxsw> ok https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371546 merged. I'm kicking off an eoan upload and then SRU
[17:12] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: will review that branch after eoan-proposal is syncd
[17:12] <blackboxsw> eoan-upload rather. can always do another upload today if needed
[17:25] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Responded to your comments there, BTW.
[17:32] <rharper> thx
[17:40] <blackboxsw> rharper: I sent triage question in email regarding whether there is something to do with IPv6MTUBytes now that Eoan has support
[17:40] <rharper> looking at it now
[17:40] <blackboxsw> maybe it's a curtin action item, dunno
[17:40] <rharper> curtin handles this for xenial, it;s always been broken on networkd;  we can re-run with those tests enabled to see what's been fixed.
[17:42] <blackboxsw> btw: [ubuntu/eoan-proposed] cloud-init 19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[17:42] <blackboxsw> I'm queuing an SRU now
[17:52] <rharper> blackboxsw: yes, we'll need to update our renderer; the key name is now 'ipv6-mtu'
[17:52] <rharper> we're due for an update I think;  in e, I think netplan there now will dump it's features and keys;  so we'll want to start using that to control how we render things.
[18:03] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Responded again and pushed that doc change I mentioned.
[18:03] <rharper> great
[18:04]  * rharper waits for git to update
[18:09] <blackboxsw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1841099 filed for cloud-init SRU
[18:15] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Ryan is +1 on my dracut branch; are you happy for me to mark Approved, or do you want to review too?
[18:45] <Nick_A> What is the correct way to do dhcp4 and dhcp6 on a single interface in network config format 1? Do I need two subnet sections or do I list dhcp,dhcp6 on the same type line?
[18:46] <Nick_A> Or perhaps two type lines, one with dhcp and one with dhcp6?
[18:57] <rharper> Nick_A: you need to subnets,  subnets: [{type: dhcp}, {type: dhcp6}]
[18:58] <Nick_A> thanks
[18:58] <metsuke> What is the best way to insert a multi-line (3) cron file using cloud-init?  I can use 3 runcmd lines but I'm guessing there is a better way?
[18:58] <rharper> write_files
[18:59] <metsuke> thank you
[18:59] <rharper> you can use the | marker to emit multi-line content
[18:59] <metsuke> if only one line is needed, is it better to use write_files or one runcmd echo?
[19:00] <rharper> write_files runs sooner ; but neither is better than the other
[19:01] <metsuke> oh interesting.  Is there a way to make write_files run later than run_cmd?
[19:01] <rharper> I guess it depends on what you need;  write_files you can also set the mode/permissions/owners on the file
[19:01] <rharper> not easily, you have to specify all of the modules for a stage and update the order;
[19:01] <rharper> in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg, the init_modules: list and config_modules: list
[19:02] <metsuke> got it, thank you!
[19:04] <rharper> yw
[19:05] <blackboxsw> SRU is queued for xenial. bionic disco https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371685 https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371686 https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371687 Odd_Bloke rharper  if you get a chance to review, we can push it up for SRU
[19:05] <blackboxsw> wanted to ask if there was anything to disable in this SRU
[19:05] <rharper> blackboxsw: thanks
[19:05] <rharper> I'll check the changelog
[19:46] <rharper> blackboxsw: Odd_Bloke: is there a way to "shell" into one of our tox environments?  I'm trying to debug a unittest failure under py3  only
[19:48] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Yep, you can just use it as a virtualenv; . .tox/py3/bin/activate
[19:48] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: excellent thanks
[19:50] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: rharper looks like we still need to enable exoscale in cloud-init.templates in each series
[19:50] <blackboxsw> shall I add that to the SRU proposal now?
[19:50] <rharper> also, I'm on xenial, and my nosetest3 on the outside passes fine, but inside tox -e py3 it fails ... I dont think there are any package differences in that ;
[19:50] <blackboxsw> I was expecting to see something like abe6bcdfacdf2f6745e3acf5c76b332380b9c493
[19:51] <blackboxsw> rharper: Odd_Bloke I think I'll add that to my current SRU proposal MPs now
[19:51] <blackboxsw> just need to enable Exoscale
[19:52] <rharper> yes, I think that's right
[19:54] <blackboxsw> rharper: did we intentionally not add Oracle to Xenial/bionic as a datasource option (in favor of retaining Openstack detection behavior?)
[19:54] <blackboxsw> because I don't see it in debian/cloud-init.templates
[19:54] <rharper> blackboxsw: yes; we've work yet to do
[19:55] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: has to finish up the dracut parsing so the cmdline parameter to disable netconfig can be removed
[19:55] <blackboxsw> ok, good that it wasn't omission
[20:12] <blackboxsw> ok rharper xenial, bionic disco I just added Exoscale datasource and repushed my MP
[20:12] <blackboxsw> letting CI get through it
[20:17] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: sorry, reviewing your branch nowhttps://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371673
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: As I'm starting to write this config generation code, I'm wondering if we should actually move to v2 config for initramfs stuff first.
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> Otherwise I'm just writing techdebt. :p
[20:29] <rharper> hehe
[20:29] <rharper> well
[20:29] <rharper> control-manual
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah.
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> Conscience salved, I will continue on. :p
[20:30] <rharper> oh, I think we can use critical: true on the iscsi connection
[20:30] <rharper> so while we don;t have a contro-manaual for leaving stuff _down_
[20:30] <rharper> we do have a way to say, don't bring the dhcp lease on this connection down
[20:31] <Odd_Bloke> Ah, right, yeah.
[20:31] <rharper> so restarts of networking won't break root
[20:31] <Odd_Bloke> But changing the initramfs stuff means also changing the Oracle stuff, for which we _do_ want control-manual.
[20:32] <Odd_Bloke> So I think I'm better off writing (not very much) code to produce v1, and then we can move everything up to v2 together once we're sure we're ready to do that.
[20:33] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Does that sound reasonable?
[20:34] <blackboxsw> thanks Odd_Bloke approved https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371673
[20:34] <blackboxsw> we can land that right ^?
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> Yep, just marked as Approved.
[20:35] <rharper> well, I don't think we did want control manual, but I think we agreed to start with that?  ISTR that we could bring everything up given the "proper" parsing of the metadata and sorting out the first nic to provide a subnet would get a gateway
[20:36] <rharper> so I'm not sure if we're staging things;  if we did all v2, and sorted the gateway logic on the secondary nics in one go, then we'd not need to emit v1 as there's no control manaul requirement if we know we're not breaking primary interface routing
[20:36] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Yeah, we did agree to start with that, but the criteria for _stopping_ doing that are not necessarily clear.
[20:39] <blackboxsw> ok xenial, bionic and disco SRU MPs all passed CI
[20:39] <blackboxsw> and have Exoscale enabled in debian/cloud-init.templates


[14:46] <ahasenack> when someone has some time, I'm writing wireguard docs for the ubuntu server guide
[14:46] <ahasenack> it's not finished already,
[14:46] <ahasenack> but I could use a quick glance at these:
[14:47] <ahasenack> introduction: https://git.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+git/serverguide/tree/wireguard/introduction.md?h=wireguard
[14:47] <ahasenack> peer to site: https://git.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+git/serverguide/tree/wireguard/peer-to-site-wg-on-router.md?h=wireguard
[14:47] <ahasenack> once I start writing the other bits (site to site, peer to peer), I might decide there is too much in common between these chapters and change the layout
[14:48] <ahasenack> I don't think a full review is warranted at this point, when it's unfinished, but a quick glance and telling me about obvious spots would help
[18:04] <sarnold> ahasenack: I suggest changing the apt install wireguard to install wireguard-tools instead -- the 'wireguard' package is a metapackage that depends on dkms | kernel module; I think it's more useful in a debian context than ubuntu context
[18:08] <sarnold> ahasenack: consider 'according to the host' in 'name the key files according to the peer they were generated for'
[18:09] <sarnold> ahasenack: in the "putting it all together" section, we've jumped from having generated keys to having configured interfaces, but the commands to make that interface and configure it have been skipped entirely; perhaps this is just the "unfinished" bit you've mentioned :)
[18:09] <sarnold> ahasenack: ooh pretty diagrams! :D
[21:11] <sarnold> ahasenack: very nice :) my last few thoughts: it might be worth saying that wg-quick is just one way to bring up the interfaces, it can be managed via other tools if desired. also, I was left very curious which interfaces / addresses wireguard is listening on, when it's "listening". Does that show up in `ss` output? can it be configured to listen to thousands of ports? (hotel and airport wifi can
[21:11] <sarnold> be brutal)
[23:47] <sarnold> ahasenack: ooh ooh a new question! :D  I could imagine some people want an sshd or apache or nginx or samba or similar to listen ONLY on the wireguard interface, or interfaces, and not listen to the 'standard' addresses at all


[07:52] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:55] <moodoo> morning AlanBell :)
[08:07] <DJones> Morning
[08:08] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:13] <mungbean> popey: nice, i will look at that. android sync is a good feature i miss that rainy would give me again though with tomdroid (hopefully)
[08:18] <mungbean> y'all been reading this one today? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security
[08:19] <AlanBell> NSA have always been into that kinda thing
[08:20] <AlanBell> they had key escrow and differential workfactor stuff when it was export restricted
[08:20] <AlanBell> so everyone else had 64bits to crack, but the NSA had a 24bit headstart
[08:21] <mungbean> howver it is not sufficient to say, yay AES is secure, if it gets backdoored. how confident are we of truecrypt?
[08:27] <AlanBell> "Differential Workfactor Cryptography" is the thing to look up, it isn't a big secret
[08:27] <dwatkins> I'm more concerned that the servers themselves are compromised, and how the various security organisations send my data to themselves.
[08:27] <dwatkins> If they can get their hooks into hotmail etc. then someone else can, or someone else can snoop their own traffic.
[08:27] <AlanBell> and hasn't really been done since the export restrictions got lifted
[08:27] <mungbean> i didn't realise that the man in a bag was related to this http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/codebreaker-death/
[08:27] <DJones> This is so true https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/9309_10151637981802602_517729414_n.jpg
[08:28] <dwatkins> AlanBell: the first hit on Google for that phrase is blocked by my employer's firewall ;)
[09:17] <directhex> damnit. when did i buy minecraft?
[09:24] <bigcalm> directhex: before it was full price is my guess
[09:25] <bigcalm> I bought it in beta for €10 I think
[09:25] <bigcalm> Or was it still alpha at that price?
[09:25] <directhex> i think 2010 or 2011
[09:25] <mungbean> i've still never played it
[09:25] <directhex> either way, mojang support won't help me without the original purchase confirmation transaction number
[09:26] <bigcalm> Och, what have you done?
[09:27] <directhex> bigcalm, they're replacing usernames with email addresses, but if the migration errors out, you're basically stuffed
[09:28] <mungbean> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/currys-job-applicants-forced-dance-off-2254279
[09:28] <bigcalm> directhex: :O
[09:28] <bigcalm> So that there can be more than one with the same screen name?
[09:29] <directhex> bigcalm, so you have one account for all your mojang games. i dunno.
[09:29] <directhex> https://account.mojang.com/migrate
[09:30] <bigcalm> They make other games?
[09:30] <bigcalm> Humm
[09:32] <moodoo> mungbean: they are just idiots.
[09:34] <directhex> aha, I made it work, by clicking "import" after logging in with my mojang account, rather than "Migrate" separately
[09:34] <mungbean> i'm amazed people complied with the dancing. this is the state of broken britain
[09:34] <directhex> and to answer the question, "Since 30 January, 2011" is the age of the account :D
[09:35] <directhex> mungbean, high unemployment, people desperate for jobs
[09:36] <mungbean> but really, if you have a moment to consider it, if they ask you to do a dance for the interview, the work culture is gonna make you quit the next day anyway
[09:36] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday, and happy Fight Procrastination Day! :-D
[09:37] <mungbean> "He said the dance had been part of team building exercises, although these were not part of its official recruitment process which would normally include a more formal interview.
[09:37] <diddledan> I procrastinate over whether to fight procrastination
[09:37] <bigcalm> I've just migrated my account: 10 November, 2010
[09:40] <DJones> mungbean: There was an interview with the bloke on radio 4 yesterday, he said he'd sent out about 200 applications & only got 7 replies so was really pleased with getting one from currys, he was supposed to have 5 minutes to talk about his interests so he went out and printed photo's that he takes through a telescope of night sky/astronimical things, and then was just asked to dance
[09:41] <Laney> that's that
[09:41] <mungbean> surely you would have the balls to say "i'm sorry, thats not on the job description"
[09:41] <directhex> mungbean, principles are great! note: you will starve without income
[09:42] <mungbean> sure, but would you survive in a job where they humiliate you before you even get the role?
[09:42] <DJones> I think in the economic climate, people are desperate, and wouldn't do something that might stop them getting a job
[09:42] <directhex> to be picky you need options to pick from
[09:42] <DJones> +1
[09:43] <DJones> From the sound of it 200 applications with virtually no response doesn't give you many options
[09:43] <mungbean> sums up my opinion of the many jerks i've met in dixons
[09:43] <mungbean> i've only been insulted by staff in dixons/pcw and richer sounds.
[09:44]  * Laney snuggles richer sounds
[09:44] <dwatkins> I have a friend used to work for Dixon's support line, he hated it, couldn't wait to get out and do a comp-sci degree.
[09:45] <directhex> RS have very high customer satisfaction
[09:46] <mungbean> i told him i would never return to the store
[09:53]  * bigcalm can has TV stick!
[09:56] <bigcalm> The printed manual is tiny with tiny print :D
[09:56] <bigcalm> Looks like it's been written in Engrish, most amusing :)
[10:00] <popey> directhex: how do you find out when you bought minecraft?
[10:01] <bigcalm> popey: migrate your account and they then tell you
[10:01] <popey> oh, my email
[10:01] <popey> 27/01/2011
[10:02] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:05] <moodoo> dwatkins: I worked for dixons pc service call for 5 years
[10:05] <Laney> the tech guys?
[10:06] <moodoo> Laney: no this was before then, I started at the beginning when it was pc plus, then again that was about 15/20 years ago lol
[10:06] <Laney> heh
[10:07] <davmor2> moodoo: man you're old :D  Morning mucka :)
[10:07] <moodoo> davmor2: yeah i know :p morning chap
[10:08] <davmor2> moodoo: go pick on czajkowski it makes you feel younger knowing you can still dodge flying objects :D
[10:08] <Laney> I know someone who worked at TTG on lenton lane
[10:08] <Laney> they shut that office and now he works for them from home
[10:09] <Laney> not sure I could stomach walking people through windows system restore all day every day
[10:09] <mungbean> windows give sme physical pain
[10:09] <moodoo> davmor2: i would never do such a thing, i respect czajkowski :p
[10:10] <moodoo> mungbean: no it doesn't :p
[10:10] <mungbean> huh?
[10:10] <davmor2> moodoo: did your nose just break your monitor?
[10:10] <czajkowski> bah need to figure out which cable to use to get my presnetion to appear on the big screen an everything is apple :(
[10:10] <moodoo> davmor2: shush
[10:10] <czajkowski> so not a good start to the day
[10:10] <mungbean> using MS windows gives me a painful know in my stomach
[10:10]  * czajkowski sends davmor2 and moodoo to the naughty step, not today!
[10:11] <mungbean> s/know/knot
[10:11] <moodoo> czajkowski: I'm behaving today it's that davmor2 that's causing all the issues
[10:11] <davmor2> moodoo: definitely through the screen now ;)
[10:11] <czajkowski> I've a display port but cannot seem to fugure out which one that mirrrors up to
[10:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: does it not have a hdmi lead?
[10:13] <czajkowski> I've a HDMi convertor
[10:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: does the projectory type thing have a hdmi lead, if so plug in the converter and then plug the lead into the converter done
[10:16] <czajkowski> yeah just It refuses to show up on the connection
[10:30] <czajkowski> Anyone any idea how to make an imported .pdf into google doc go into presentation mode?
[10:31]  * bigcalm returns from testing the android tv stick - works really well
[10:33] <bigcalm> Might consider EoP though. Streaming videos with MediaHousePro from mediatomb can be a little jerky. Time will tell
[10:33] <bigcalm> I really need to get a magic controller though
[10:33] <popey> czajkowski: can you not just do it locally, not via gdoc?
[10:34] <bigcalm> popey: what's the remote you recommend?
[10:34] <popey> F10 iirc
[10:34] <czajkowski> popey: the issue is this:  I cannot get my laptop to connect to the big TV for some godly reason.  so I thought plan B, convert to .pdf and upload to google doc so I could present it that way
[10:34] <popey> mele f10
[10:34]  * bigcalm googles
[10:34] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:34] <popey> czajkowski: make it a pdf, put on a usb stick or email to co-worker, use their laptop
[10:34] <AlanBell> czajkowski: can you convert to ppt and upload, then gdocs knows it is a presentation
[10:35] <popey> or that
[10:35] <czajkowski> yup tried that and google docs wont read it :(
[10:36] <czajkowski> I'm gonna have w weekend of filing bugs on LO
[10:36] <czajkowski> now have to hear about if only I'd had a mac discussion
[10:37] <czajkowski> may i fact slap someone :(
[10:37] <popey> czajkowski: a ppt, not an odt?
[10:37] <davmor2> czajkowski: did you try that or did you just save it as LO default odp?  you need to save it as PPT
[10:37] <popey> s/odt/odp/
[10:37] <popey> I recall you complained it wouldn't recognise odp, but it should work with ppt
[10:37] <czajkowski> I've one saved as a ODP which google doc doesnt support so I saved it as a .ppt and that uploads but the image cannot be read
[10:38] <davmor2> czajkowski: try different ages on PPT too
[10:38] <czajkowski> popey: mind if I send you it to see if it's just me being a bit you knw... special :)
[10:38] <bigcalm> Oh my goodness. The remote has speaker and mic - can be used with Skype!
[10:38]  * bigcalm giggles to himself
[10:38] <bigcalm> Think I'm going to have to buy one
[10:38] <popey> yeah, use a windows 95 era ppt
[10:39] <popey> bigcalm: the mele f10?
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> or pptx?
[10:39] <bigcalm> popey: yes
[10:39] <popey> nice
[10:39] <czajkowski> ahhh
[10:39] <czajkowski> a .pptx works to upload
[10:40] <czajkowski> thank you
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: np :)
[10:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: now does it display in gdocs in presentation mode :D
[10:41] <czajkowski> No but I can zoom in and fill up the screen
[10:42] <czajkowski> I just need to resolve the connection issue
[10:42] <czajkowski> so maybe plan C is best
[10:42] <czajkowski> mail co worker in the meeting and present from there
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: google docs has a "convert to gdocs" mode
[10:42] <czajkowski> and then next week present via Vidyo should be easier
[10:42] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: WHERE>.................
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: in the upload dialog
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: the one that pops up while uploading
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: also, "gear" icon (top right) -> upload settings -> convert to Google Docs
[10:43] <czajkowski> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[10:43] <czajkowski> that setting wWAS OFF!
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> you can convert after the fact as well, but I don't know how.. let me have a look at my account
[10:45]  * davmor2 points czajkowski at this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Google-Apps-Dummies-Ryan-Teeter/dp/0470189584   and runs for the hills
[10:46] <czajkowski> wow
[10:46] <czajkowski> that works
[10:46] <czajkowski> yay
[10:47] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: what was that link in twitter meant to be it got cute short
[10:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: This one? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1717674777/gerry-andersons-gemini-force-one
[10:48] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: that's the one thanks
[10:49] <bigcalm> Standard delivery 7- 23 days
[10:49]  * bigcalm grumbles at another HK import
[10:49] <bigcalm> popey: do you know where your friend got his mele f10 from?
[10:50] <popey> ebay i think
[10:50] <popey> ask him
[10:50] <bigcalm> Who he?
[10:50] <popey> @8none1
[10:50] <bigcalm> Oh, on twitter?
[10:50] <popey> yeah
[10:50] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:51] <popey> ask if he still recommends it
[10:51] <bigcalm> Oh, Will Coke
[10:51] <popey> close
[10:51] <bigcalm> +o
[10:51] <popey> Yes
[10:51] <bigcalm> :P
[10:51] <popey> Will O'Coke
[10:51] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:51] <bigcalm> Cokoe
[11:40] <mungbean> http://superuser.com/questions/164162/is-truecrypt-truly-safe
[12:18] <DJones> Shock, Horror, El Reg is positive review scandal http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/06/ubuntu_13_10_beta_1_review/?page=1
[12:18] <DJones> s/is/in/
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> DJones: I'm calling it: they were paid off.
[12:19] <DJones> :)
[12:20] <DJones> Must admit, 1st beta release wasn't something that I'd realised was happening today
[12:21] <directhex> does mir still echo every VT into your graphical display, so logging on in VT1 will paste your credentials into your irc window if it had focus in VT7?
[12:21] <diddledan> DJones: didn't it happen yesterday though?
[12:21] <DJones> diddledan: Could have done, I've not been paying attention
[12:21] <diddledan> directhex: that sounds like a cool bug
[12:22] <directhex> diddledan, AKA the "t-mobile g1" bug
[12:22] <dwatkins> I was also thinking of early Android
[12:22] <directhex> diddledan, where everything you typed on the first android phone was echoed into a root terminal too
[12:22] <dwatkins> type "reboot" and hit return whilst writing a text message, the phone reboots
[12:23] <diddledan> oops
[12:23] <diddledan> that probably had a purpose at some point for being able to enter commands when you didn't have a console
[12:23] <dwatkins> yeah, testing, I assume
[12:24] <diddledan> they just forgot to disable it :-)
[12:24] <diddledan> it's not a bug it's a feature in that case
[12:28] <dwatkins> indeed, diddledan
[12:30]  * bigcalm flops back into the office
[12:30]  * mungbean just ate a massive scoth egg
[12:30] <bigcalm> Want to spend the rest of the day playing with my Android on a stick
[12:30] <mungbean> 411 calories alone
[12:30] <dwatkins> bigcalm: fun times?
[12:30] <bigcalm> Listening to the latest Goldfrapp album with Spotify via my TV and thus hi-fi is wonderful :)
[12:31] <DJones> 411 calories? What was it, and Ostrich egg wrapped in 1/2 a pig
[12:31] <bigcalm> dwatkins: indeed so, I can really recommend having Android on a stick to make an HD TV a Smart HD TV :D
[12:31]  * mgdm keeps meaning to make his Joggler run Android
[12:31] <mgdm> keep forgetting
[12:31] <mungbean> i needed to supplmenet my pasta which had no met. i have gut ache now
[12:31] <bigcalm> mgdm: dog slow and painful. But amusing
[12:32] <dwatkins> bigcalm: sounds like fun, might give it a go (I have a Raspberry Pi running XBMC, so I use that for watching tV a lot)
[12:32] <dwatkins> mungbean: try not eating carbs for a couple months ;)
[12:34] <mungbean> dwatkins: i would disappear
[12:34]  * TheOpenSourcerer is delighted it is Friday. Means Pub later :-D Lots of calories in Beer. Good calories I'm sure.
[12:34] <mungbean> cannot drink beer anymore :(
[12:34] <mungbean> tummy don't like it
[12:37]  * bigcalm is excited for the trip down south to the RAT :D
[12:38] <dwatkins> mungbean: I was hesitant at first, I've found I don't get that mid-afternoon urge to nap anymore ;)
[12:38] <mgdm> dwatkins: I keep intending to do that, then failing
[12:38] <dwatkins> mgdm: nap, or give up carbs...?
[12:39] <mgdm> dwatkins: the latter :-)
[12:40] <bigcalm> :D
[12:40] <bigcalm> If I had the time, I would nap
[12:40] <bigcalm> Have been known to nap at lunch time
[12:41] <davmor2> bigcalm: you mean you wake up at some point?
[12:41] <dwatkins> I used to work with someone who took a nap every lunchtime.
[12:45] <directhex> mmm a nap sounds lovely
[12:47] <dwatkins> I had a sandwich for lunch, so I do feel like napping today, normally I just have chicken salad and I'm fine.
[12:48] <mungbean> napping is healthy
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> nappies are healthy?
[12:48] <diddledan> problem is with me a nap usually lasts a full 4 hours
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> sleep more during the night
[12:51] <diddledan> I sleep over 8 hours at night as it is
[12:52] <diddledan> if left to my own devices I'd sleep upwards of 12 hours a day
[12:52] <diddledan> thank god for alarms
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> You're a strange person :P
[12:52] <diddledan> I'm on medication :-D
[12:53] <diddledan> probably to combat the strangeness :-p
[12:53] <DJones> 12 Hours sleep, that would be a wonder to have, weekdays my alarm is set for 7am just in case, normally I wake at 6am and toss & turn for a while before getting up & waking the dog up for an early morning walk
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> I couldn't.
[12:54] <diddledan> yeah, my alarm goes off at 7 too
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> If I go to bed before 22:00, I wake up at 6
[12:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> My alarm is set for 06:15am
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> after tossing & turning until 22:00
[12:54] <mungbean> alarm is set for 11.30pm
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> if I go to bed after 22:00, I wake up at 6
[12:54] <dwatkins> My alarm goes off at 6:30, I get up sometime between then and 7am, have bacon and eggs then cycle to work. If I leave later than 7:30, I have issues with the pedestrian and dog traffic.
[12:56] <DJones> I need an unpaid intern for envelope stuffing
[12:59] <diddledan> I need to outsource my job to china
[12:59] <diddledan> (and pocket the profit)
[13:08] <dwatkins> yes, diddledan, because no-one *ever* got accused of defrauding their employer for doing that...
[13:09] <diddledan> it was reading about accusations that got me thinking it would be a good idea :-p
[13:09] <dwatkins> I can't believe the bloke that did it got away with it for so long.
[13:21] <andylockran> howdy all
[13:22] <mungbean> Bruce Schneier • September 5, 2013 4:35 PM
[13:22] <mungbean> "Could the NSA be intercepting downloads of open-source encryption software and silently replacing these with their own versions?"
[13:22] <mungbean> Yes, I believe so.
[13:23] <andylockran> md5sum for the win
[13:23] <andylockran> but I guess they've probably got that hacked too
[13:23] <mungbean> conspiracy guys are gonna need bigger hats
[13:23] <andylockran> sales of tin foil up 400%
[13:24] <DJones> mungbean: tinfoil onesies :)
[13:24] <mungbean> a bit scratchie
[13:31] <Monotoko> say I've narrowed down a search in MySQL to get me a club officer... with three AND's in my WHERE (club id, year and clubofficerid)
[13:32] <Monotoko> how would I get it to bring back two club officers (clubofficerid 1 and 2) without doing another query?
[13:32] <mgdm> that's nowhere near enough information
[13:32] <mgdm> we'd need to know your table structures and the existing query
[13:32] <mgdm> and what's wrong with a second query for WHERE id IN (1, 2)?
[13:35] <Monotoko> mgdm: hang on I will pastebin my query, there's a few tables involved here
[13:35] <Monotoko> mgdm: IN sounds like the one I was missing: http://pastebin.com/bCGHJWqR
[13:36] <Monotoko> at the moment that's bringing me back one email address for the secretary, I want it to bring me back an email address for the secretary and the president
[13:37] <Monotoko> yeah IN was the one
[13:37] <Monotoko> thank you
[13:53] <DJones> Dammed devices, I never know which way to turn when something goes 'ding' in the office, is it an email, a text, gtalk, and which device made the bloody noise, sometimes its every device
[13:53] <mungbean> i hate the whistle notification that everyone on the train thinks its cool to have
[13:54] <mungbean> although yesterday someone had a ringtone like a rape alarm...but it was just a phone call
[13:56] <DJones> Driving home the other night after talking about the MS/Nokia deal, they said they were going to test how annoying the Nokia ringtone was by playing it continuously until 100 people had emailed in to say stop, it went on for about a minute before they either got the 100 emails or got fed up themselves
[13:57] <DJones> (On the radio)
[13:57] <popey> that's the dumbest radio stunt ever
[13:57] <popey> surely people will just change the channel
[13:58] <mungbean> which station?
[13:58] <mungbean> its precisely the reason i don't even listen to radio
[13:58] <DJones> Radio 4
[13:58] <mungbean> and the fact that somebody stole my aerial
[13:59] <diddledan> aerial theft?!
[13:59] <mungbean> wow i thought it would be capitalheartcheese fm
[13:59] <diddledan> who would want to steal a wire?
[13:59] <mungbean> car aerial
[13:59] <mungbean> it all started in 1976 when someones aerial broke, so he stole his neighbours
[13:59] <diddledan> use a wire coat hanger
[13:59] <dwatkins> I had a little figure (Gir from Invader Zim) on my aerial, some git stole him :(
[13:59] <DJones> Would a car radio without an ariel be a "wireless".... I know, its bad
[14:00] <mungbean> fast forward to 2013 and i am going to break the chain by not buying or stealing one
[14:00] <mungbean> its  aroof aerial , the thick platic coated kind
[14:00] <mungbean> you can''t just plop a wire into a slot anymore
[14:00] <diddledan> that's like not forwarding on a chain letter^H^H^H^H^H^Hemail
[14:00] <diddledan> you're gonna die a horrible death now because of it
[14:01] <diddledan> or "your crush" is going to do the opposite of the wish you made when you read the countdown from 10 to 1 in textual form
[14:01] <mungbean> my wife gets annoyed because i can sort of hear radio5 someotimes in good conditions, so if i'm desperate for the arsenal score, i will turn it on and brrrrfuzzzzzzzzzarsenal7...ijiojiojeroije
[14:02] <dwatkins> mungbean: for a moment I thought you meant you could hear Radio 5 without the need for a radio...
[14:02] <diddledan> ditto
[14:02] <mungbean> lolz
[14:03] <dwatkins> it's not unheard-of
[14:03] <mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/StabbzB.jpg
[14:03] <mungbean> heheh
[14:11] <mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1lucdy/did_linus_torvalds_backdoor_linux_random_number/
[14:13] <diddledan> of course he did
[14:17] <DJones> Erk, Listening to a Doctor Who play, first episode is called "Scorpius" and I was wondering where Blake & Tarrent were..Confused.com
[14:31] <bigcalm> That went over my head
[14:32] <DJones> Blakes 7 reference
[14:33] <bigcalm> Righto
[14:33] <bigcalm> Blake 7 was before my time, but I wonder about checking it out
[14:34] <DJones> You should do before Microsoft ruin it
[14:34] <DJones> With their rumoured remake
[14:34] <bigcalm> o.O
[14:34] <diddledan> microsoft doing telly?!
[14:35] <DJones> Rumoured anyway http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23712001 Also denied
[14:45] <bigcalm> "Gamers will have to pay to take advantage of some features of the Xbox One"
[14:46] <bigcalm> I'm surprised that such a statement needs to be made
[14:46] <mungbean> like the power button?
[14:46] <bigcalm> Hehe
[14:46] <mungbean> i hate stealth costs more than anything
[14:49] <BigRedS> bigcalm: "What? I need to buy the games as well?!"
[14:50] <davmor2> mungbean: no this is microsoft not app,  you get the power button for free, but breathing during game play costs per breath
[14:50] <davmor2> s/app/apple
[14:50] <mungbean> after 300 power cycles then RROD
[14:52] <Laney> wow this is an extreme dead leg
[14:53] <Laney> my foot is like set custard
[14:53] <mungbean> mmm custard
[14:53] <davmor2> Laney: it's in a coffin on a trampoline trying to drag the rest of you in ?
[14:53] <Laney> now it's recovered a bit
[14:54] <Laney> at the extreme pain whenever it's moved stage
[15:09] <mungbean> mmm cookies
[15:09] <mungbean> 50p for 5 big ones in sainsbury
[15:10] <diddledan> WOW
[15:10] <diddledan> I need cookies now!
[15:10] <mungbean> they put them near the self serve tills for the weak willed
[15:10] <mungbean> and the hungry
[15:11] <diddledan> I'm both
[15:11] <davmor2> mungbean: what were you at the time then?
[15:11] <mungbean> i expected a time that i would be hungry. i'm rarely weak willed
[15:12] <mungbean> except on reddit lately i appear to be getting involved with trolls and wrong people
[15:12] <davmor2> mungbean: unless it's cookies it seems :D
[15:12] <mungbean> i should just downvote and move on
[15:14] <davmor2> mungbean: do what I do, don't look at reddit :D
[15:14] <diddledan> I've never even been tempted to regularly read reddit
[15:15] <mungbean> i entered a cycle of behaviour since having the baby
[15:15] <mungbean> feeding the sprog in the dark at 11.30pm requires stimulation so you don't fall asleep
[15:15] <mungbean> after reading facebook , you need fresh stuff
[15:15] <mungbean> reddit is what you read when all your other stuff dries up
[15:16] <mungbean> and irc is asleep
[15:16] <mungbean> /r/parenting is the worst....wHYY!?!?
[15:16] <davmor2> mungbean: Just read wikipeadia start at A ;)
[15:17] <mungbean> aardvark...yawn...snoooze...woops baby
[15:32] <dwatkins> clearly no-one reads Slashdot anymore
[15:33] <bigcalm> Not for a very long time in my case :)
[15:33] <funkyHat> And why would they? ;P
[15:38] <Seeker`> funkyHat: to recap on last weeks news
[15:38] <dwatkins> I hadn't opened slashdot in about 6 months until yesterday.
[15:41] <bigcalm> Anybody remember the f key overlay cards that were available for the BBC Micro  for different programmes? I'm wondering if there is a template out there for creating ones own overlay for different keyboards
[15:44] <popey> bah
[15:45] <popey> dug out desktop, booted it up, whining like a whatsit
[15:45] <popey> cpu fan
[15:45] <diddledan> I do that
[15:46] <diddledan> I'm a whiney git
[15:46] <diddledan> :-p
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! Nearly beer oclock!
[16:54] <andylockran> exit
[16:54] <andylockran> oops
[16:54] <andylockran> :)
[16:54] <andylockran> bye all - have a good weekend
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> \o
[16:59] <bigcalm> :O how is it 6pm?
[16:59] <bigcalm> Almost
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: gravity well, curved space-time, etc.
[17:00] <bigcalm> There we go
[17:00]  * bigcalm grumbles
[17:09] <popey> hmm, hardware chaps, the fan in my desktop is busted, and i need a replacement pronto
[17:10] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/E97378-001-INTEL-ALUMINUM-HEATSINK-WITH/dp/B00BV1CRR6
[17:10] <popey> its one of them
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> popey: does it have to be one of them? as it's a desktop, wouldn't a "normal" CPU/case fan work?
[17:11] <popey> no idea
[17:11] <popey> i dont do hardware
[17:11] <popey> looks like it's Lga1155? thats the chip form factor right?
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: just googled the type number on google image
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[17:11] <popey> i see some on amazon i can get delivery tomorrow via prime
[17:11] <popey> which will do
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: I'm liking my replacement for that.. let me find it again
[17:11] <popey> ta
[17:11] <popey> quiet would be nice
[17:12] <popey> cheap also good ☻
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/cooling/cpu-liquid-cooler/seidon-120m.html
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coolermaster-Seidon-120M-Watercooling-Kit/dp/B00AOEWCWG
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> that's going to be *quiet*
[17:13] <popey> i had one of them and it didnt fit the case
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CC7108EP01-Heatsink-Noise-Socket/dp/B008OHNJN6/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1378487619&sr=1-2&keywords=1155+fan  ?
[17:14] <popey> something like that year
[17:14] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CC7117EP01-Performance-LGA1156-LGA1155/dp/B005J2IS3U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1378487459&sr=1-1&keywords=Lga1155+fan
[17:14] <popey> gets good reviews
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> it looks like a bee or a wasp ;)
[17:15] <popey> heh
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> It looks OK, I don't know if it comes with the paste
[17:15] <diddledan> I would hope it does
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it really depends these days
[17:15] <diddledan> really?
[17:15] <diddledan> dang
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: not including it makes the package cheaper
[17:17] <popey> "However the K32 Akasa cooler is a bargain and keeps temps cool, comes with heat paste applied ready."
[17:18] <popey> looks good enough
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> (Y)
[17:19] <popey> ta
[17:20] <popey> Boom, ordered
[17:21]  * MartijnVdS ordered a new radio for the car earlier
[17:21] <MartijnVdS> display on current one is dead
[17:21] <MartijnVdS> which makes it a bit hard-ish to use
[17:21] <popey> ooh good call
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> I ordered this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/AEG-4029-Autoradio-Watt-AUX-IN/dp/B00A7QGDB2 (hm, amazon.de has it for €50 less)
[17:38] <brobostigon> good evening everyone,
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
[17:40] <brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
[19:01]  * MartijnVdS listens some more Andy Cato
[19:36] <diddledan> I need takeaway
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> omg.. this exists: http://www.glastonbridge.co.uk/flash/q.php?i=YES+IT+REALLY+EXISTS
[20:22] <popey> wut
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: web-based QI buzzer :)
[20:23] <popey> handy
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: if someone's obviously wrong, yes
[20:23] <popey> excellent
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> ah, it has an accompanying form: http://www.glastonbridge.co.uk/flash/q2.html
[21:46] <popey> \o/ Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Akasa AK-CC7117EP01 K32..." has been dispatched
[21:47] <popey> Estimated delivery date: Monday, September 09, 2013
[21:47] <popey> bastards
[21:50] <popey> oh, thats the other thing I ordered
[21:58] <hamitron> oh geez, government run organisations are so poorly organised... they've lost all copies of my qualifications and certificates twice now :/
[21:59] <hamitron> and licenses
[22:02] <diddledan> oops
[22:11] <directhex> hamitron, non-govt organizations are no better
[22:12] <hamitron> suppose that can be the case, just not experienced larger places of work much


[00:17] <jjohansen> apw: problem fixed and it wasn't in the kernel
[00:34] <tdmackey> I
[08:15] <apw> jjohansen, excellent thanks for your help
[08:16] <jjohansen> apw: np, sorry for the problems, and wasting your time
[08:16] <apw> jjohansen, no need to appologise, there are always issues, and them seeing we can resolved them in a timely fashion is good
[08:18] <jjohansen> yeah I suppose, still feel bad when I caused the issue, but its not the only one this cycle, /me is on a roll
[08:19] <apw> heh, nothing compared to the upstream issues we have consumed
[08:19] <apw> at least someone is testing and finding them before release
[08:21] <jjohansen> :)
[08:21] <apw> jjohansen, was it luck that it was working for everyone else ?
[08:21] <jjohansen> apw: yes
[08:21] <apw> jjohansen, those are the best ones to find
[08:22] <jjohansen> non terminated string, so it just depended on whether the string was dumped into zeroed memory
[08:23] <jjohansen> this is when the compiler was deciding what features the kernel supported
[08:23] <jjohansen> the precise kernel has a new interface for that
[08:23] <apw> heh, and it should have been randome for everyone probabally, and yet 100% reproducible for him and not for anyone else in the company
[08:23] <jjohansen> so the old kernel path would always work, the new for most people
[08:23] <apw> how wack is that
[08:23] <jjohansen> very
[08:24] <apw> a good find, you know it would have worked perfectly until release week otherwise
[08:25] <jjohansen> hehe, yeah
[08:31]  * smb cries
[08:31] <apw> smb, that bad?  break your coffee maker?  run out of coffee ?
[08:31] <smb> So some launcher icons having strange colours is because of my desktop background
[08:32] <smb> and they change colour everytime you change your background
[08:32] <apw> !?! is this a bug or a feature?
[08:32] <ubot2`> apw: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[08:32] <smb> apparently a feature
[08:32] <jjohansen> smb: oh I hate that, is it as bad as the spilled cool-aid on my desktop bug
[08:32] <apw> ubot2 i didn't even consider you present
[08:33] <smb> jjohansen, Heh, I am not sure I know that
[08:34] <smb> and apparently working scroll wheel for your terminals is a game of luck
[08:34]  * ppisati -> reboot
[08:34] <jjohansen> smb: I'll see if I can't dig it up, but it was related to choosing colors based off your background
[08:35] <smb> jjohansen, Ah yeah, Paolo said they do that now as a feature. Maybe I get used to it
[08:36] <smb> Just that I had been wondering all the time why they changed the colors into that particular one
[08:37] <smb> ok, missing scrollwheel for terminals seems to be fixed by todays updates... I had not closed the one from before
[08:37] <jjohansen> yeah, some time its a real mess, /me is particularly annoyed with the alt-tab switch where I can't tell which icon is being highlighted
[08:37] <smb> That one gets me a lot of times
[08:38] <smb> and the inconsistency of what moves between subselections of the same app
[08:39] <smb> when you drop in the by time its tab. when you get there by cursor up its cursor left/right
[08:39] <smb> oh, actually that seems to have changed
[08:40] <smb> now its only that going in there by cursor will give you round robin within that new selection while dropping in by time gets you out when you go past the last entry
[08:42] <jjohansen> yeah, /me is going to try the compiz switch again, its working again
[08:46] <apw> jjohansen, compiz switch ?
[08:47] <jjohansen> apw: compiz alt-tab switchers if you use ccsm you could still use them instead of the unity one at least until a few weeks ago when they where broken by a compiz update
[08:48]  * jjohansen decided to give the unity one a good run but it hasn't grown on me at all
[08:48] <apw> ahh ... jjohansen before you switch away from it, it also now has different settings, like switching within apps by default and stuff on the experimental tab
[08:48] <jjohansen> apw: yeah
[08:48] <apw> it also has whether its limited to the same viewport or not etc as tickies
[08:48] <apw> depends what your issue is of course
[08:49] <apw> but i was supprised at the slew of options it had grown
[08:50] <jjohansen> yep, still don't like it.  I have several gripes
[08:50] <jjohansen>   Its inconsistent, some time it pulls all an apps windows forward, some times it doesn't
[08:50] <jjohansen>   I can't tell which app I am switching too
[08:50] <jjohansen>   I loose spatial information on the window so I can be looking at the window I want but have to try picking it out of an icon, or wait for it to give a shrunken view of the window, which I still can't distiguish between when its between 3 or 4 terminals
[08:51] <jjohansen> the spatial info loss is my biggest gripe, assuming that the bugs are worked out
[08:55] <jjohansen> sigh, no the compiz application switcher is still buggy
[09:14] <apw> jjohansen, i do find working out which one is highlighted difficult for some reason
[09:15] <jjohansen> apw: it used to be a little easier, but they changed the highlighting color and now I find it really hard
[10:08] <diwic> apw, the sound card name of your snowball mic?
[10:13] <apw> diwic, hi
[10:14] <apw> diwic, how do i find that out
[10:14] <diwic> apw, so I got upstream's blessing for my solution to blacklist USB devices which don't have digital in/out, just need the card names to put in the blacklist
[10:14] <diwic> apw, pastebin /proc/asound/cards
[10:14] <diwic> with the mic connected
[10:15] <apw>  1 [Snowball       ]: USB-Audio - Blue Snowball
[10:15] <apw>                       BLUE MICROPHONE Blue Snowball at usb-0000:00:1d.7-4.5.4, full speed
[10:15] <diwic> thanks!
[10:15] <apw> that is showing two entries, one is 'iec958-stereo-input' the other 'Microphone'
[10:16] <apw> though for all i know it really does have stereo support
[10:16] <apw> it was expensive enoug
[10:16] <apw> h
[10:16] <diwic> the normal "microphone" input should enable stereo recording by default.
[10:17] <apw> ahh ok, then yeah i don't need two :)
[10:17] <apw> why do we get two?
[10:17] <apw> oh interesting they are linked, the mute on one mutes both anyhow
[10:18] <diwic> the iec958 shouldn't be there.
[10:18] <diwic> it's a bug.
[10:18] <apw> good enough
[10:19] <diwic> apw, feel free to read bug 940145 if you're interested in more details.
[10:19] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 940145 in pulseaudio "USB analog only devices sometimes show up with digital profile as well" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940145
[13:24]  * apw prepares to shift location ...
[15:04]  * ogasawara back in 20
[15:14]  * apw returns
[15:20] <cking> apw -> pop stack into kent
[15:20]  * apw smells coffee ... yumm
[15:20] <tgardner> apw, that didn't take long.
[15:21] <apw> apparently 1:45 which is a lot really
[15:25] <cking> apw, M25/M20 slow then?
[15:25] <apw> cking, no it was a pretty steady run, no expalnation other than faffing
[15:35] <apw> ogasawara, closed a couple of WIs for the hyper-v stuff ...
[15:36] <ogasawara> apw: sweet, thanks
[15:38] <ogasawara> apw, tgardner: will likely upload 3.2.0-18.29 later today, gcc was uploaded yesterday so am going to wait for it to finish up its builds
[15:39] <apw> ogasawara, sounds good
[15:39] <tgardner> ogasawara, I updated tangerine/gomeisa chroots this AM with new gcc and binutils
[15:39] <ogasawara> tgardner: cool, thanks.  yah, the only build still going is powerpc
[15:49] <apw> ogasawara, any idea how long it takes on powerpc normally ?
[15:49] <ogasawara> apw: previous build was ~9hrs
[15:49] <apw> ogasawara, so another 5 then
[15:50] <apw> ogasawara, if you want me to upload it in the morning, drop me a note
[15:50] <ogasawara> apw: no worries, I'm hoping it'll just be finishing up before I usually bail.  If not, I'll check it this evening and upload.
[15:51] <apw> if not, you know where i am :)
[16:12] <smb> apw, ... in the basement right hand side room?
[16:35] <tgardner> apw, there is a hyperv patch that you should cherry-pick after David Miller's latest pull request is honored; '10) hyperv network driver uses the wrong driver name string, fix from Haiyang Zhang.'
[16:36] <apw> tgardner, ack
[16:36] <tgardner> apw, its real subject line is "net/hyperv: Use the built-in macro KBUILD_MODNAME for this driver"
[16:42] <tgardner> apw, huh, its already committed: d31b20fcc89efa8c5d3f5ea2720e08a286b69a36
[16:42] <apw> tgardner, yay thanks ... will pull it over
[16:43] <apw> tgardner, that must have been recent ... as tis not in my pull from this morning
[16:43] <tgardner> apw, no, I think it was in the last few minutes
[16:43] <apw> tgardner, and there it is ... will get it now
[16:47] <cking> yawn
[16:55] <apw> tgardner, ok pushed
[16:55] <tgardner> apw, ack
[17:14]  * apw reboots to test a kernel
[17:37]  * tgardner has an appt, back in awhile.
[18:02] <akgraner> apw ping?
[18:04] <apw> akgraner, hi
[18:04] <akgraner> apw - guess what is happening again - I'm getting heat issues but I don't know if it's chromium or something else
[18:05] <akgraner> my machine has hit 90+ C temps 5 times in less than 5 hours
[18:05] <akgraner> and shuts down hard
[18:05] <apw> akgraner, same old machine that did it before ?
[18:06] <apw> akgraner, this issue went away for the longest time didn't it
[18:06] <akgraner> different machine
[18:06] <akgraner> thinkpad now
[18:06] <apw> akgraner, i assume it is on precise now?
[18:06] <akgraner> the dell finally died a heat ridden death
[18:06] <akgraner> apw, yep upgraded today
[18:07] <apw> akgraner, and it was fine on oneiric ?
[18:07] <akgraner> yep
[18:07] <akgraner> just started today
[18:07] <apw> ok so then ... we need to get a bug filed for this
[18:08] <bjf> akgraner: is this after a few suspend/resumes or from cold boot and after some time running ?
[18:08] <apw> and your first debugging task is to boot back into your oneiric kernel
[18:08] <akgraner> It's docked
[18:08] <apw> and confirm it is ok in that combination, if so then we need to try the kernels in between
[18:08] <apw> to see where it is coming from
[18:08] <akgraner> I have have dual monitors as well - so first I lose a monitor then the heat pegs then it dies
[18:12] <akgraner> apw, ok - let me put it through the paces again   and see if I can reproduce on purpose
[18:12] <akgraner> the drop back the oneiric kernel and go from there
[18:12] <apw> akgraner, sounds good ...
[18:13] <apw> akgraner, bjf had a question, which might imply he has an idea what the issue is ^^
[18:13] <akgraner> thanks - just thought I'd give you a heads up
[18:13] <apw> akgraner, and what thinkpad model is it
[18:13] <akgraner> bjf - after it's been running - longest time was a little over an houe
[18:14] <apw> akgraner, i think he is asking is it from cold boot, use, break
[18:14] <apw> akgraner, or is it cold boot, s/r a few times, use, break
[18:14] <akgraner> bjf T410
[18:14] <akgraner> no s/r
[18:15] <akgraner> happen once from cold boot, the rest of the times during use
[18:16] <apw> akgraner, when you have a bug filed, get the number to jsalisbury so he can do a bisect once you confirm that O is good and P is bad with the same userspace
[18:17] <bjf> akgraner: i ask because i have a x301 and after some number of suspend/resumes it seems to forget to regulate the fans
[18:17] <akgraner> apw - will do
[18:18] <bjf> akgraner: i can "fix" it by just rebooting or I have a small script which i can manually adjust the fans
[18:20] <akgraner> bjf - ahh ok...I'll pay closer attention and verify its not the fans  if it is I'll let ya know :-)
[18:25] <cking> bjf, i'm looking at thinkpad fan controls at the moment, I'm doing some precise measurements with specific loads and comparing kernels etc
[18:26] <cking> bjf, can you send me that script too?
[18:27] <bjf> cking, sent
[18:27] <cking> ta!
[18:30] <akgraner> apw - so I just killed deja dupe and that looks like it was part of the issue
[18:30] <cking> bjf, so the default "auto" seems not be OK for a load of users, I'm seeing how auto performs compared to different level settings
[18:32] <apw> akgraner, the machine should not overheat under load really, something is wrong
[18:32] <cking> akgraner, how old is the machine? My lenovo kept on rebooting because of thermal issues because the fan outlet was full of fluff
[18:34] <akgraner> cking, I know - b/c of your post that's the first thing I check now :-)
[18:34] <cking> fluff 'n' fans don't mix
[18:35] <cking> its tempting to set the fan level to "full-speed" and see how hot it gets
[18:35] <akgraner> apw - 2 years old
[18:36] <akgraner> apw - Its an arrendale chipset
[18:36] <apw> heh, !quality
[18:39]  * cking shudders
[18:40] <akgraner> cking, I hope it's because you a cold :-)
[18:40] <akgraner> ok - I'll get this filed and let you all know more soon thanks!
[18:42] <akgraner> apw - if would help and save time for all of us - I can share my screen and open a term for  you to have a look
[18:43] <akgraner> you'll just have to tell me what you want to see etc
[18:45] <apw> akgraner, i think what needs doing is something that'll take longish testing, so it'll make more sense for you to do it
[18:45] <akgraner> no worries
[18:45] <akgraner> you know I don't mind :-)
[18:49] <cking> akgraner, have you got a bug number I can put some comments into for this issue?
[18:50] <akgraner> I will in a minute :-)
[18:50] <cking> cool
[19:02] <akgraner> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/951049
[19:02] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 951049 in linux "Lenovo T410 is overheating and shutting down" [Undecided,New]
[19:03] <akgraner> cking, apw- I wasn't sure what all to say  - let me know if I need to add anything else right now
[19:09] <cking> I will put some comments.. /me needs to reboot first
[19:13] <Sarvatt> popey: do you  have that viewsonic monitor handy, and would you be willing to try some magic to possibly fix it? :)
[19:15] <cking> akgraner, I've updated the bug with something to try for the next 24 or so hours.
[19:15] <akgraner> ok will do :-) thank you!
[19:30] <GrueMaster> sconklin: Got a sec?  I was thinking about our power test measurement, and looking at http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Specialties-695P-Current-Multimeter/dp/B000I17RAM/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1331320671&sr=8-18 as a possible better solution to tapping inline.
[19:31] <GrueMaster> Wanted to know your thoughts.
[19:39] <sconklin> GrueMaster: my first impressions are 1) 10 mA resolution really isn't good enough. and 2) you'd have to either still get down to a single supply line or be able to clip it over all the wires for a given voltage.
[19:39] <sconklin> GrueMaster: but it should just plug into what we have, and for the price, if 10 mA is good enough resolution for you it might be worth a try
[19:40] <akgraner> cking, neat  - poof magic  - now I hear the fans
[19:40] <GrueMaster> Clipping over the wires is easier than splicing in between.  That was my thought at least.
[19:40] <cking> akgraner, that's good - lets see if it overheats with them on full tilt
[19:42] <akgraner> cking, I'll let ya know
[19:42] <cking> pop the details in the bug and we can work on finding out where it's going wrong
[19:42] <cking> ta!
[19:42]  * cking calls it a day
[20:15] <tgardner> sforshee, re: bug #950320 - you should put the workaround to enable passive DFS channels in the bug.
[20:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 950320 in linux "[MacBook Air 4,1] Wireless scan fails to see APs on DFS channels" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950320
[20:16] <sforshee> tgardner, it's there in the bug description
[20:17] <tgardner> sforshee, ah, its just damn hard to see.
[20:17] <sforshee> I guess I could add ***WORKAROUND*** to make it easier to find ;)
[20:20] <sforshee> tgardner, I made it a little easier to find
[20:21] <tgardner> sforshee, yeah, that works
[20:22] <sforshee> tgardner, sounds like broadcom is going to fix that problem by adding the custom domain to brcmsmac, but I don't know when we can expect it
[20:24] <tgardner> sforshee, likely 3.4 timeframe
[20:24] <sforshee> if we're lucky
[20:24] <sforshee> the merge window will be pretty soon now
[20:24] <tgardner> sforshee, perhaps you could accelerate the process by sending a patch to Linville as a bug fix.
[20:25] <tgardner> sforshee, and Cc stable
[20:25] <sforshee> tgardner, a patch to do what? add the custom domain?
[20:26] <sforshee> I don't think I actually know what's valid for this broadcom-custom regulatory domain
[20:26] <sforshee> although likely it's the same as the world domain but with passive scanning on the DFS channels
[20:27] <tgardner> sforshee, is there a domain the allows passive scanning on DFS channels ?
[20:27] <sforshee> tgardner, US does for sure
[20:27] <sforshee> I guess I could detect X0 and override it with US and see what they think of that
[20:28] <tgardner> seems like a hack. does the X0 come from EEPROM or something ?
[20:28] <sforshee> tgardner, yes, from eeprom
[20:28] <sforshee> it's definitely a hack, although it sounds like they already do something similar
[20:29] <tgardner> sforshee, I thought you said X0 is bogus, right? Is that what causes mac80211 to use the world domain ?
[20:30] <sforshee> tgardner, yes. X0 is something broadcom made up. Since CRDA doesn't know about it it results in using the default, i.e. the world domain
[20:30] <tgardner> sforshee, well then, perhaps defaulting to a US domain isn't such a hack.
[20:31] <sforshee> tgardner, it's still a hack, but not an unreasonable one
[20:31] <sforshee> it might not be that hard to do the custom domain though, I'll look into it
[20:31] <ohsix> isn't the world one the subset of all the regulatory domains
[20:31] <ohsix> it's easy, i've done it before
[20:31] <sforshee> when I send the patch I suppose broadcom can correct what I get wrong
[20:31] <ohsix> you add it to crda, regen; sign it yourself and it's automatically used if put in the right place
[20:32] <sforshee> ohsix, yes, but we want it to work by default
[20:32] <sforshee> the one the kernel uses is hard-coded in the wireless core code
[20:32] <ohsix> right, so ubuntu would sign it instead of having the linux-wireless guys key on it :]
[20:32] <ohsix> really? i thought that went away a long time ago, or are you referring just to the broadcom driver?
[20:32] <sforshee> nope, look at net/wireless/reg.c
[20:33] <sforshee> world_regdom specifically
[20:33] <ohsix> hm, i see
[20:34] <ohsix> oh, world is in there; the rest are in crda
[20:34] <sforshee> ohsix, there's a reasonable explanation for the DFS channels being disabled by default. See http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg86540.html
[20:36] <ohsix> DFS is the radar thing isn't it? afaik it was almost always off; so i can't really provide any input, i thought having added my own regdom to crda was useful :]
[20:37] <sforshee> yes, it's related to ceasing transmission when radar is detected on the channel
[20:38]  * apw gives it up
[20:38]  * tgardner is about ready to give it up
[20:39] <sforshee> quitters
[20:40]  * apw sends sforshee 10 machines to debug, by monday
[20:40] <sforshee> apw, par for the course ;)
[20:40] <apw> :)
[20:40] <apw> have a good 'en
[20:41] <sforshee> you too
[20:51] <Sarvatt> sforshee: awesome, thanks for the workaround! was wondering why i could never get on the 5ghz band on this thing
[20:55] <sforshee> Sarvatt, I just noticed it earlier this week after I set up my new router and couldn't see my 5 GHz AP