[00:00] <furkan> but on 3.19.0-12 it doesn't work at all
[00:00] <furkan> so, still a difference
[14:31] <tjaalton> furkan: can't reproduce the checkerboarding bug or the corruption. the dpms issue is real, testing a commit now
[17:17] <furkan> tjaalton: this is interesting... i unplugged my secondary monitor, and everything works much, much better
[17:18] <tjaalton> is the other monitor a 4k one?
[17:19] <furkan> no checkerboarding, no "snow" in the virtual terminal, no delay when switching between virtual terminals (with 2 monitors, it takes a few seconds), and no graphics corruption when initially logging in (i didn't mention that in the bug report because i thought that was "normal", i'll take a vid for you if you want)
[17:19] <furkan> i have just my 27" 2560x1440 monitor connected now
[17:20] <tjaalton> and the other one?
[17:20] <furkan> i unplugged it.. i'll plug it in and try it in landscape mode first
[17:20] <furkan> before switching to portrait, which is how i originally had it
[17:20] <tjaalton> the resolution?
[17:20] <furkan> oh right
[17:20]  * furkan tests
[17:24] <tjaalton> tried rotating the other one, still nothing
[17:24] <furkan> nope... killed my desktop
[17:24] <furkan> i took a pic
[17:24] <furkan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fd1tdi67og8iz91/IMG_20150408_132316.jpg?dl=0
[17:24] <furkan> that's what happened when i tried to change from 2560x1440 to 1920x1080
[17:25] <furkan> so you have a dual-monitor setup too?
[17:25] <furkan> what are your resolutions?
[17:25] <tjaalton> 25x14, 19x10
[17:25] <furkan> oh, so almost the same
[17:26] <tjaalton> hooked to the same monitor via dvi & hdmi
[17:26] <furkan> and you tried rotating the 19x10 monitor?
[17:26] <tjaalton> yes
[17:26] <furkan> wait, hooked to the same monitor? you mean 1 screen connected with 2 cables?
[17:26] <tjaalton> yup
[17:26] <tjaalton> i only have one
[17:26] <furkan> hmm
[17:27] <furkan> ok i will try connecting it again in landscape
[17:33] <furkan> ok so i have the monitor in landscape now
[17:33] <furkan> switching between vts is no longer instantaneous
[17:33] <furkan> but no checkerboarding/snow
[17:33] <furkan> after suspend/resume
[17:34] <furkan> changing resolution still trips it up, i need to switch into a VT and service lightdm restart
[17:36] <furkan> so i made the switch to portrait, right now i have checkerboarding, but no "snow"
[17:37] <furkan> even after 2 suspend/resume cycles (1 when i had the monitor in landscape, and 1 after i switched to portrait)
[17:38] <furkan> i bet it'll be back after i restart though
[17:38] <tjaalton> so which one is in portrait?
[17:43] <furkan> yeah so i restarted, at first no snow, then suspend/resume and the snow is back... so it seems to reproduce that bug i need to boot directly into that display configuration
[17:43] <furkan> i have 27" 2560x1440 in landscape mode
[17:43] <furkan> and 24" 1920x1200 in portrait mode, on the left-hand side
[17:43] <furkan> i suppose i could also try putting it on the right-hand side as a final test
[17:44] <furkan> interesting, this time my screen didn't become garbled after changing resolution
[17:45] <furkan> and VT switches are instantaneous
[17:49] <furkan> ok well after restarting, no difference
[17:50] <furkan> but at that moment, just after switching the screen from one side to the other, i was getting instantaneous VT switches, now i'm not
[17:50] <furkan> but snow/checkerboarding still there
[17:50] <tjaalton> have you tried 4.0?
[17:51] <furkan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4koy953b7faj095/VID_20150408_134129.mp4?dl=0
[17:51] <furkan> that's the corruption when initially logging in.. pretty minor so i hadn't thought much of it before, but it doesn't happen with a single monitor connected
[17:51] <furkan> and yeah i was using 4.0 for a while, and same issues
[17:52] <tjaalton> try #radeon then, and file a bug on bugs.freedesktop.org
[17:53] <furkan> but i didn't have the issue with Xorg 1.16, so what if it's an Xorg bug and not a kernel bug?
[17:53] <furkan> and when i downgrade to 3.16 i still have the issue
[17:53] <furkan> whereas before upgrading to 15.04, i didn't
[17:53] <furkan> so i think that rules out the kernel, no?
[17:53] <tjaalton> same devs
[17:53] <furkan> ah
[17:53] <tjaalton> pretty much
[17:54] <furkan> ok will do, then
[17:54] <furkan> thanks for the pointer
[17:56] <furkan> btw, another regression, unrelated to X: after rebooting or suspend/resume, i need to unplug my headphone and plug it back in for it to be recognized again
[17:57] <furkan> if i submit too many bug reports i feel like i'll become the "boy who cried wolf", but right about now i'm wishing that i stayed with 14.04 :P
[18:00] <tjaalton> well, can't reproduce that either, something wrong with jack detection I guess
[18:00] <tjaalton> file that against pulseaudio
[18:00] <tjaalton> for starters
[19:54] <furkan> tjaalton: i guess i understand the "snow" thing now
[19:55] <furkan> when on a VT, it sets the same resolution on both monitors
[19:55] <furkan> so since my smaller monitor is 1920x1200, it sets that resolution on both
[19:56] <furkan> and before suspending, it's scaled to full screen
[19:56] <furkan> after suspend/resume, you get the 1920x1200 terminal drawn on the top left corner of the screen, and the blank areas are white
[19:58] <furkan> in 4.0, the terminal isn't scaled to full screen but the blank areas are black (then after suspend/resume it turns white)
[20:02] <furkan> really not the worst out of the bugs i've seen so far, but something is really broken w/ dual monitor support on a radeon card
[20:19] <tjaalton> furkan: yep, saw the same, no corruption though, just white borders
[21:00] <furkan> tjaalton: i know this must be an upstream bug, but just to share the hilarity https://www.dropbox.com/s/caawhzn8zfycc00/VID_20150408_165520.mp4?dl=0
[21:01] <furkan> the time difference between switching, where the secondary monitor is on the left vs. the right
[21:01] <furkan> *switching to a VT
[21:03] <tjaalton> it is what it is.
[21:04] <furkan> well with the open-source drivers w/ kernel modesetting, it's supposed to be instantaneous
[21:04] <furkan> whereas with the proprietary drivers it's not
[21:04] <furkan> so while the bug itself is no big deal, i think it's indicative that something is going wrong
[22:37] <furkan> tjaalton: do you use vanilla Ubuntu, or one of the derivatives?


[05:49] <Big_D_271>  can anyone help with S-video on a 9500 GT?
[06:28] <Technophil> depends what you want?
[15:36] <dewman> its a beautiful day in the neighborhood. =)
[18:02] <Gibby1313> I am having a permissions issue when I am mounting a cifs from a windows box that has all my movies, I am getting directory is not writeable but I am able to touch a file in it
[18:04] <tgm4883> Gibby1313, sounds like the mythtv group may need write access to it?
[18:04] <tgm4883> where did you mount the share?
[18:19] <Gibby1313> wierd, i copied 1 movie from my mount to /var/lib/mythtv/videos/ and it found all of them
[18:20] <Gibby1313> I just have to read on how to find the imbd info automatically now for 2000+ videos, if i can't figure it out I will be back
[18:21] <tgm4883> Gibby1313, jamu
[18:23] <Gibby1313> What is the Jamu NFS Override?
[18:25]  * tgm4883 shrugs
[18:29] <rhpot1991> any ipod users around?
[18:45] <dewman> rhpot1991, not I....android.
[18:46] <rhpot1991> dewman: which device?
[18:46] <dewman> droid 1
[18:46] <rhpot1991> already tested :)
[18:46] <dewman> patiently waiting for 2.2 to come out...
[18:46]  * rhpot1991 too
[18:46] <dewman> whatcha testing?
[18:46] <rhpot1991> dewman: video files
[18:46] <dewman> ahh...
[18:47] <dewman> was hoping you were going to say a new mythmote.... =)
[18:47]  * superm1 hugs his newly froyo flavored evo
[18:47]  * rhpot1991 curses verizon
[18:48]  * dewman will load 2.2 himself if it doesn't hurry up and get here.
[19:04] <tafkaz> hallo zusammen!
[19:04] <tafkaz> probleme mit dem Grabber:
[19:04] <tafkaz> /usr/bin/tv_grab_eu_epgdata
[19:04] <tafkaz> Use of uninitialized value $time in localtime at /usr/share/perl5/Date/Format.pm line 123.
[19:04] <tafkaz> Your PIN will expire around Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 EET 1970
[19:04] <tafkaz> format error: file is too short
[19:04] <tafkaz> Pin ist gerade neu
[19:05] <tafkaz> und jetzt krieg ich auf einmal keine neuen daten mehr
[19:05] <tafkaz> weiss einer bitte Rat?
[19:10] <tafkaz> ups...i am in the wrong channel
[19:10] <tafkaz> sorry for any disturbance
[19:11] <dewman> we are all sleeping here....
[19:11] <dewman> =)
[19:11] <tafkaz> lol...ok!
[19:14] <tafkaz> sleep well then!
[19:20] <mrand> tafkaz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmltv/+bug/544522?
[19:20] <mrand>    *sigh*
[19:20] <Zinn> [bugs.launchpad.net] Bug #544522 in xmltv (Ubuntu): “[lucid] latest version of Date::Manip breaks tv_grab_uk_rt ”
[19:38] <Gibby1313> so i got jamu working mostly... is there a way to clear all the meta databases? then is there a way to run jamu and make it accept (1) the default unless it find more than 1 possiblity?
[21:09] <rhpot1991> dewman: you see it yet?


[00:22] <wgrant> slangasek: Timeouts with an OOPS ID? Or timeouts with a "Sorry, we couldn't connect to the Launchpad server" sort of thing?
[00:22] <slangasek> wgrant: "couldn't connect"
[00:22] <wgrant> Ew.
[00:23] <wgrant> Had a report of that last night, also while filing a kernel bug.
[00:23] <wgrant> Interesting.
[00:23] <fagan> I get that a lot on the edge server
[00:23] <slangasek> I gather that the kernel's apport bits are now quite large :)
[00:23] <fagan> if you keep trying you get it eventually
[00:24] <wgrant> slangasek: Do you recall how big it was in this case?
[00:24] <fagan> the edge sever has a much lower time out than the main server
[00:24] <slangasek> wgrant: hum, I don't know anywhere that it would've said
[00:25] <wgrant> slangasek: Doesn't apport normally say before it sends?
[00:25] <slangasek> I don't know :)
[00:25] <wgrant> Heh.
[00:25] <slangasek> maybe!  I didn't look
[00:25] <wgrant> fagan: This is far nastier than a normal timeout, I'm afraid.
[00:25] <slangasek> I didn't hit the error until after it had sent
[00:25] <slangasek> the timeout I was getting was after the data had been uploaded, and I was trying to submit the bug /submission/
[00:25] <fagan> Oh couldnt connect is a strange one
[00:26] <penguin42> wgrant: Sounds like what I was reporting earlier and last night ?
[00:26] <wgrant> penguin42: Exactly.
[00:26] <wgrant> slangasek: Oh, that's even worse.
[00:26] <wgrant> Yay.
[00:26] <fagan> did anyone ask on #launchpad?
[00:26] <wgrant> Yes, that's why I'm here.
[00:26] <wgrant> Because slangasek ran away.
[00:26] <slangasek> fagan: I did, but then I retracted because the next attempt to post went through :)
[00:26] <fagan> oh
[00:26] <slangasek> bug #635379, fwiw
[00:27] <slangasek> but before that, it was persistent for ~30min or so
[00:27] <wgrant> This may be bad firewall rules again.
[06:19] <atari2600a> hey
[06:20] <atari2600a> empathy is accidentally my entire config upon restart
[06:20] <atari2600a> more specifically my accounts
[06:20] <atari2600a> any workaround until the package gets fixed?
[06:36] <dylan-m> atari2600a: I think you accidentallied a verb, but I'd guess the likeliest place to ask that question is #ubuntu+1 (the discussion / support / trying to use the thing channel for 10.10)
[06:43] <atari2600a> thanks dylan
[09:26] <cjwatson> just so people know: bugs aren't being auto-closed by uploads right now, so you have to close them manually.  A Launchpad fix is on its way
[09:26] <cjwatson> bug 634045
[09:44] <gellmar> hi! Are here any maintainers for UDFtools?
[13:51] <roxdragon> ih
[14:41] <Pretto> where do i find information about hal not installed by default and what is used in it's place?
[14:44] <fagan> Pretto: hal was replaced by a few things really
[14:46] <fagan> read the top note here to get the list http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
[14:47] <Pretto> fagan: thank you
[14:47] <fagan> np
[14:56] <Damascene> hi,
[14:56] <Damascene> I wish you release ubuntu less often. It's hard to follow all these releases for paid persons rather than volunteers
[14:57] <Damascene> too much regression
[15:05] <G> Damascene: the LTS releases are designed for people that need stability and long term support (LTS)
[15:06] <ari-tczew> Damascene: if you want to give an idea about longer development cycle, let's use listmails discussion or use brainstorm.
[15:06] <ari-tczew> btw. I also think that development cycle should be longer.
[15:07] <Damascene> ok, thanks both
[15:10] <G> rapid releases have kinda put me off a little too, so often features look unpolished
[15:10] <G> (in my eyes)
[15:10] <G> but not just Ubuntu
[15:19] <Damascene> and any way every one can get the latest version from some launchpad ppa
[16:02] <directhex> Damascene, that only works for leaf packages. personally, i like the short release cycles, as it encourages setting and reaching goals
[16:03] <Damascene> you might be right. but the current release system is too short I think
[16:04] <Damascene> you know the default for many people is to update when there is new release and that might case many problems for them
[16:04] <directhex> Damascene, if people want long-term supported releases, use long-term supported releases (6.06, 8.04, 10.04)
[16:05] <Damascene> well as a user we just call it old release :)
[16:06] <Damascene> any way I'm thinking of creating a wiki page to start a discussion about that
[16:07] <directhex> the mailing list is the correct arena for this
[16:07] <ChogyDan> Damascene: it is probably better to focus on specific packages then the release as a whole.  Projects should follow their own release schedule, no?
[16:07] <directhex> although people will just say the same thing - use LTS if you want long-term support
[16:09] <Damascene> ChogyDan, many developers and users complain about not having the last version in the release. why not let them do it in their ppa and blame it on them.
[16:10] <Damascene> the first thing they say when you try to report but is to use the last version they have. not Ubuntu's one.
[16:11] <ChogyDan> Damascene: that sounds like an argument for shorter releases, I don't think I follow
[16:12] <Damascene> no what I mean is to let the developers to handle the software release and Ubuntu to handle the core. and release less often.
[16:12] <Damascene> brb
[16:14] <directhex> i think mdz argued for the latter part
[16:14] <directhex> problem is upstreams are awful at distro integration
[16:14] <directhex> and, again, it can only work for leaf packages
[16:32] <Chipzz> Damascene: IMO, you can't have your cake AND eat it
[16:32] <Chipzz> which means: either you choose stability, ie LTS, or you choose in between releases, with the possibility of regeressions
[16:33] <Damascene> why not using decentralized Ubuntu? developers control their own apps releasing
[16:34] <Damascene> then the problems is not ubuntu's problem
[16:36] <Damascene> directhex, if developers don't want their programs to be in the most popular open source OS it would be awkward
[16:38] <ogra_cmpc> Damascene, i think yous problem is your view here ... you see apps and core bit totally ignore integration which is the main part ubuntu devs are doing ... ubuntu featurs usually consist of a combination of a bunch of apps with added glue inbetween
[16:38] <ogra_cmpc> if you let one app move forward independently the feature can break ... you cant guarantee even a minimal level of QA etc
[16:43] <Damascene> why don't we start with an another repo like universe where developers can just push their apps there and see the outcome? it would be optional and for testing. when I had to install the latest evolution I just had to add it's ppa. it seems simple to have a universal open to developers ppa
[16:44] <Chipzz> also, with a decentralized approach you also loose all Q&A
[16:44] <Chipzz> same problem
[16:44] <Chipzz> Damascene: you ignore the gist of the problem, really
[16:44] <Chipzz> I think you lack a basic understanding of what is really the issue here
[16:44] <Chipzz> which is a lack of manhours
[16:44] <Chipzz> and he necessity for Q&A
[16:44] <Damascene> Chipzz, so in the current state Ubuntu is doing QA of other apps?
[16:45] <Chipzz> they're doing at least some form of Q&A on the packages, not necessarily the apps
[16:45] <Damascene> why do you thing the developers can not do that if you linked them directly with the users?
[16:46] <Chipzz> like I already told you, lack of manpower
[16:47] <ogra_cmpc> the scenario you describe above already exists, we call it launchpad :)
[16:47] <ogra_cmpc> every upstream dev is free to add his/her project and provide daily builds, stable builds etc in a ppa
[16:48] <ogra_cmpc> why would you want to make all of universe unstable if single people only need single apps
[16:48] <Damascene> ogra_cmpc, but that should be done by manual for every package
[16:49] <ogra_cmpc> it is already happening for some
[16:49] <tumbleweed> Damascene: it has to be manual. Every package is different
[16:49] <Damascene> the idea for now is to have another repo for now with the latest release from developers
[16:49] <ogra_cmpc> but be sure ubuntu as a distro wont give up its stability for a permanently rolling archive
[16:52] <ogra_cmpc> Damascene, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/GettingStarted
[16:52] <Damascene> what I see now look like this. developer release package version 1 stable and 1.5 in testing. ubuntu has the package version 0.5 stable and 1.0 in testing. ubuntu users are using 0.5 and find bugs while there is 1.5 going to be released
[16:52] <ogra_cmpc> its not a matter of ubuntu but a matter of devs making use of the reciepoes for daily builds
[16:52] <ogra_cmpc> *reciepes
[16:53] <Damascene> ogra, developers are not releasing daily! they have stable and testing too.
[16:53] <ogra_cmpc> up to them
[16:53]  * ogra_cmpc only releases stable
[16:53] <ogra_cmpc> everything else is development ;)
[16:53] <Damascene> I just hoped to find something to release the gap
[16:54] <ogra_cmpc> see the help page above
[16:54] <ogra_cmpc> its supposed to close the gap
[16:54] <Damascene> * lower the gap
[16:54] <Damascene> yes the word is close
[16:54] <Damascene> :)
[16:54] <ogra_cmpc> but it needs adoption on the developer side
[16:54] <ogra_cmpc> which you wont get from many sides due to political reasons
[16:55] <ogra_cmpc> which is alo not a job for ubuntu to solve
[16:55] <ogra_cmpc> *also
[16:56] <Damascene> let me gather my ideas and start a wiki page. things need to be sorted in some place.
[16:57] <Chipzz> Damascene: look, it's very simple; 0.5 gets released with the LTS, and 1.0 gets released by upstream after. It's simply not desirable to move 1.0 to the LTS, because the problems with 0.5 are known and documented. If you were to push 1.0 to LTS for every single piece of software, your LTS would hardly be stable
[16:57] <penguin42> that's what backports for isn't it?
[16:58] <Chipzz> penguin42: not exactly, no
[16:58] <penguin42> Chipzz: But partially, yes ?
[16:58] <Damascene> :)
[16:58] <Chipzz> penguin42: if you're going to push every 1.0 release into backports, you might just as well run a non-LTS release, or even a development release
[16:58] <Chipzz> and exactly what have you gained then?
[16:59] <ogra_cmpc> more workload :)
[16:59] <Chipzz> :)
[16:59] <Chipzz> and from the user POV, you have gained little to nothing
[16:59] <penguin42> Chipzz: Yeh but it helps for the few packages which get a really major useful upgrade
[16:59] <ogra_cmpc> which in turn boils down to the "lack of manhours" from above
[17:00] <tumbleweed> penguin42: all packages get really useful upgrades, but they also get new bugs
[17:00] <Chipzz> penguin42: if you put package a into backports, another user is going to whine to get package b in too, and another package c, ...
[17:01] <Chipzz> I think this discussion is pointless and silly
[17:01] <Chipzz> Damascene fails to understand what a release is, and fails to appreciate the amount of work it takes
[17:01] <Chipzz> and the discussion is going around in circles
[17:01] <Damascene> Chipzz, developers releasing with bugs is because of the lack of user testing
[17:02] <Damascene> thanks for the nice discussion.
[17:03] <Chipzz> Damascene: like I said before, your POV is basically "I want more updates" and the answer to that is basically "Can't do due to a lack of manpower"
[17:03] <Chipzz> and this isn't going to get fixed unless canonical hires more ppl
[17:03] <penguin42> how much automated testing happens?
[17:05] <Damascene> not exactly. the update are their but needs some of Ubuntu man power for testing instead of providing packages that the upstream do not want to support
[17:05] <Damascene> * there
[17:06] <Damascene> I know this is not Ubuntu only problem and it can not solve it alone. developers will have to make sure there packages are really stable
[17:08] <ogra_cmpc> Chipzz, why would it be a matter of canonical hiring anone ?
[17:10] <ogra_cmpc> its a matter of having more devs, no matter if they are employed by canonical, TI, dell, or are hobbyists
[17:10] <Chipzz> ogra_cmpc: right; but that would be the easiest solution
[17:11] <Chipzz> ogra_cmpc: the quality of packages hardly is garantueed when a package is made by a volunteer
[17:11]  * ogra_cmpc disagrees
[17:12] <ogra_cmpc> a volunteer often is more intrested in his package than someone being paid for maintining other peoples software imho
[17:12] <tumbleweed> Chipzz: where does debian's legendary stability come from then?
[17:14] <Chipzz> ogra_cmpc: do I really need to point out the (perceived) lack of quality of a lot of packages in universe/multiverse?
[17:14] <Chipzz> tumbleweed: do you really want an answer to that?
[17:14] <mr_pouit> yes…
[17:14] <tumbleweed> Chipzz: I'd say that's because there aren't enough people for the size of universe
[17:15] <ogra_cmpc> Chipzz, do i need to point ut the overworkedness of many paid canonical devs ?
[17:15] <Chipzz> IMO the better quality of packages in debian is because of the New Maintainer process, which assures people are intimately familiar with the debian policy because they get asked questions about it during the course of the NM process
[17:16] <Chipzz> ogra_cmpc: I am not pointing a finger at Canonical Employees here
[17:16] <Chipzz> what I *am* saying is that the barrier to becoming a MOTU is much lower, resulting in underqualified MOTU's
[17:17] <Chipzz> not all of them, mind you
[17:17] <ogra_cmpc> well, you are assuming canoinical hiring more employess would help in any way
[17:17] <tumbleweed> probably true. But also not enough of them. I see more neglected packages than packages where MOTUs screwed up
[17:17] <ogra_cmpc> canonical is a company working for revenue ...
[17:17] <ogra_cmpc> adding more people requires to make more of it
[17:18] <ogra_cmpc> the only solution can be to get more voluteers
[17:18] <Chipzz> ogra_cmpc: it would help the quality of packages, since Canonical would presumably only hire very qualified ppl
[17:18] <directhex> canonical employees are not better by definition than community MOTU
[17:18] <ogra_cmpc> no matter if for main or universe
[17:18] <directhex> IME, anyway
[17:18] <Chipzz> directhex: I would hope they are, or Canonical has a serious problem screening new hirees
[17:18] <ogra_cmpc> Chipzz, it wouldnt ...
[17:19] <directhex> Chipzz, again, my experience says otherwise.
[17:20] <directhex> the biggest problem with universe is that people upload to it
[17:20] <ogra_cmpc> canonical hires the best for the task if it can ... but people plainly tasked with only packaging are very very rare in the company
[17:20] <penguin42> I guess it depends; some community guys are full time experienced programmers anyway - they just don't happen to work for canonical
[17:21] <directhex> universe quality is at its worst when people upload stuff directly which isn't in debian, then never maintain it long term
[17:21] <directhex> second worse is when they introduce an ubuntu delta from debian, then never notice that it needs an update (but there is more chance of it being noticed than when the upload is ubuntu only)
[17:22] <ogra_cmpc> directhex, that applies to main as well
[17:22] <directhex> third worst is when ubuntu distro changes mean a direct unmodified debian package doesn't work, even though the package itself is unmodified
[17:22] <directhex> ogra_cmpc, yeah, but at least people are meant to care more about main. i try not to abuse my upload powers
[17:45] <Damascene> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/damascene/Decentralized%20Ubuntu
[17:45] <Damascene> I made that page for the subject
[20:53] <ScottK> Chipzz: The perceived lack of quality for Universe/Multiverse is due to lack of manpower and packages being left unmaintained.  It is (almost always) not because someone is working on the packages and doing it badly.
[20:55] <ScottK> Also getting hired by Canonical doesn't give anyone upload rights.  MOTU/Core-dev that are employed by Canonical get approved the same way community people do.
[23:55] <Chipzz> ScottK: like I pointed out before, my comment wrt Canonical hiring ppl should be interpreted in terms of Canonical having lots of knowledgable ppl, which will be the ones reviewing applications, and as a result them hiring only knowledgable ppl
[23:55] <Chipzz> as opposed to ppl in MOTU who may be rather new to packaging
[23:58] <Chipzz> I was in no way implying that Canonical employees get a different treatment due to being employed by Canonical, but rather that it stands to reason that Canonical employees deliver high-quality work


[03:34]  * mozzwald is away: sleepytime
[06:24] <armin76> haha
[06:25] <armin76> lool: look, someone spamming with his away again :D
[08:28] <neo_> Hello all
[08:30] <neo_> I have a doubt in the RootfsFromScratch . anybody there to help me
[08:30] <neo_> ?
[08:38] <neo_> Hi
[08:47] <hrw> morning
[08:54] <ARMport> morning hrw
[09:04] <hrw> zyga: hi
[09:05] <ARMport> Hello all
[09:05] <ARMport> i have an issue in running ARM/RootfsFromScratch
[09:05] <hrw> you was as neo_ few minutes ago?
[09:05] <hrw> 09:31 < neo_> I have a doubt in the RootfsFromScratch . anybody there to help me
[09:05] <ARMport> yes
[09:06] <hrw> so next time do not change nick
[09:06] <ARMport> sure
[09:06] <hrw> so what issue?
[09:06] <ARMport> i am unable to use the mouse inside the Qemu VNC
[09:06] <XorA> heh, neo is a bad choice of nick anyway :-)
[09:06] <ARMport> ha ha :)
[09:06] <hrw> XorA: thats too
[09:06] <hrw> ARMport is not better anyway
[09:06] <ARMport> I ll change it soon ;)
[09:07] <XorA> its the equiv these days of countzero in the 90s
[09:07] <hrw> ARMport: never used qemu with vnc
[09:07] <hrw> XorA: mess with the best, die like the rest?
[09:07] <ARMport> don't get u !
[09:07] <zyga> hrw, czesc :-)
[09:07] <ARMport> I mean using the command qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -cpu cortex-a8 -kernel ./vmlinuz -hda arm-rootfs.img -m 256 -append "root=/dev/sda mem=256M devtmpfs.mount=0 rw"
[09:08] <ARMport> I tried to run the qemu,
[09:08] <ARMport> and opened the emulated ARM image in the VNC viewer
[09:08] <XorA> amusingly "The Plague" didnt really take off as a nick even though the film was awesome
[09:08] <ARMport> XorA: i don't think so
[09:09] <XorA> its one of my favourite films, brings back so many memories of 2600 meets
[09:09] <ARMport> has any one tried running the ARM image using qemu?
[09:10] <ARMport> XorA : its my fav too
[09:10] <hrw> XorA: from 2006 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479125/ one?
[09:11] <XorA> hrw: from Hackers
[09:11] <hrw> ah
[09:11] <XorA> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113243/
[09:11] <hrw> long time since last time I watched Hackers
[09:12] <hrw> o.. there was 720p edition
[09:13] <XorA> ..oo00OO I shall have to look for bluray then
[09:14] <hrw> Instead of going to bluray I bought mini hifi with dvd
[09:16] <XorA> I have a ps3 which is awesome for video playback
[09:16] <hrw> and require transcoding of all divx movies
[09:16] <XorA> nope
[09:16] <XorA> plays DivX fine, just not DivX:-)
[09:17] <hrw> what about matroska container? etc?
[09:17] <hrw> friend told me that he has a bit of work with most movies to get them played on his ps3
[09:17] <XorA> it doesnt understand mkv, but tsmuxer will remux is happilly to mpeg2 ps which it does understand
[09:18] <XorA> ps3-media-server does it on the fly :-)
[09:18] <XorA> its DivX certified, so plays them without issue
[09:19] <XorA> http://ps3mediaserver.blogspot.com/
[09:19] <hrw> I have to check divx on my hifi
[09:19] <hrw> also divx certified
[09:19] <XorA> the thing to watch out is that xvid != divx
[09:19] <XorA> different set of ASP options
[09:20] <XorA> most players dont care, but a few do
[09:20] <hrw> and one day fight enough to get some movie converted to avhcd (or how it was named) and then I will check my TV capabilities
[09:20] <XorA> warez stuff is normally xvid for obvious reasons
[11:03] <cooloney> sebjan: those images work on lag's panda, thanks a lot, man
[11:04] <lag> cooloney: I've already emailed sebjan
[11:05] <lag> Sebjan: What's changed in u-boot lately? Does it now check for system IDs?
[11:05] <lag> *different system IDs
[11:39] <NCommander> ndec: you around?
[12:06] <sebjan> lag: I did not have a look, and I did not build myslef the images I provided to you. Will try to get so info about that.
[12:08] <lag> Thank you sebjan
[12:08] <ogra> lag, the u-boot branch from gitorious.org should be fine, i'll update the ubuntu package soon
[12:09] <ogra> lag, http://www.gitorious.org/pandaboard/u-boot
[12:12] <lag> ogra: Yes it is. I was just curious as to what the differences were - thirst for knowledge and all that. ;)
[12:13] <ogra> well, the diffs might tell :)
[12:17] <ogra> #define MACH_TYPE_OMAP4_PANDA         2791
[12:17] <ogra> looks like that one
[12:17] <ogra> from include/asm-arm/mach-types.h
[12:23] <hrw> hate make
[12:23] <lag> I would if I had the sources for both ;)
[12:24] <ogra> lag, http://www.gitorious.org/pandaboard/u-boot has the source :)
[12:25] <ogra> that was copy pasted from the web ui
[12:25] <lag> That's the one I do have
[12:39] <Guest23625> Hello
[12:40] <JameswStubbs> Is there an arm version of the Ubuntu Minimal Cd?
[12:41] <JameswStubbs> Specifically Karmic ?
[12:41] <sebjan> lag: so you can boot with the images I provided to you, but not with the gitorious ones?
[12:42] <lag> sebjan: I think the ones that were provided for me were the ones used for Blaze
[12:42] <lag> I don't think they were the gitorious ones
[12:43] <ogra> lag, the ones i provided to you were older panda binaries
[12:43] <ogra> without the sysid in them, they worked on panda and blaze by a matter of luck
[12:44] <lag> Okay
[12:44] <ogra> there was a change in the panda kernel that now checks for that ID afaik
[12:44] <lag> Are you going to update your sources?
[12:44] <ogra> yes
[12:44] <JameswStubbs> Bump
[12:44] <lag> Then upload them to your people account?
[12:45] <ogra> no, to maverick :)
[12:45] <lag> Okay
[12:45] <ogra> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot-omap4
[12:46] <ogra> thats using the sources from omapzoom, predating the panda gitorious tree
[12:46] <ogra> i'll pull in the panda stuff
[12:46] <lag> What git repos do I need from kernel.ubuntu.com?
[12:46] <ogra> no idea
[12:46] <ogra> aks #ubuntu-kernel :)
[12:46] <ogra> *ask even
[12:47] <lag> Wont they be the same ones you use?
[12:47] <JameswStubbs> Is there an Ubuntu Minimal for the Arm arch?
[12:48] <lag> JameswStubbs: I don't know the answer for sure, but I wouldn't have thought so
[12:48] <lilstevie> JameswStubbs: just wait a bit, maybe you will get an answer eventually :)
[12:48] <ogra> JameswStubbs, you can use the server images or a netinstall
[12:48] <lilstevie> ogra: i dont think a netinstall would be useful :p
[12:48] <JameswStubbs> I'll look into the server image for arm thanks ogra
[12:49] <ogra> lilstevie, ??
[12:49] <JameswStubbs> No lilstevie it won't be, can't do a net install when we can't boot :p
[12:49] <JameswStubbs> We're porting Ubuntu to iPhone
[12:49] <lilstevie> ogra: the device we are working on is the iPhone as JameswStubbs just said
[12:49] <ogra> JameswStubbs, oh, then better look at the channel topic for rootfs from scratch
[12:49] <JameswStubbs> Debating between using debian armel or ubuntu 9.10
[12:49] <ogra> use rootstock to create an ubuntu-minimal rootfs
[12:50] <JameswStubbs> I'm looking into that aswell :)
[12:50] <ogra> the images we provide are only for supported arches so the server image wont gain you much on an iphone
[12:50] <lag> JameswStubbs: Is this a project, or are you doing it for a company?
[12:50] <JameswStubbs> lag : part of the iDroid project
[12:50] <lilstevie> lag: its an open source project
[12:51] <lag> Sounds good. Best of luck with it.
[12:51] <JameswStubbs> Thanks, we'll need i
[12:51] <JameswStubbs> t
[12:51] <lilstevie> heh
[12:51]  * lilstevie is not a fan of having android
[12:51] <lilstevie> so instead going for something a little more sane :)
[12:52] <lag> I have to admit, I quite like it
[12:52] <lag> I have an HTC Desire which I am a fan of
[12:52] <lilstevie> heh, android is not nice on proprietry devices that have to have drivers written for them,
[12:52] <JameswStubbs> Only reason I want it is for GTK Ettercap :)
[12:53] <lag> I see, and what do you want to do with Ettercap? ;)
[12:54] <JameswStubbs> lag: Monitor my own network for educational purposes of course.
[12:55] <lag> JameswStubbs: Of course. How silly of me! ;)
[12:55] <JameswStubbs> lilstevie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMServer
[12:56] <JameswStubbs> It's for armv7 though, I think we'll need to rootfs
[12:56] <lilstevie> i think building a rootfs from scratch will be the easiest for our purposes
[12:57] <JameswStubbs> Defiantly do you think we'll still be ok using the iDroid kernel
[12:57] <JameswStubbs> ?
[12:57] <lilstevie> yeah
[12:57] <JameswStubbs> ogra: is this the right place to go for advice with rootfs?
[13:03] <JameswStubbs> Hm, Can you run rootfs from an x86 machine with the intention of building for Arm?
[13:10] <JameswStubbs> orga : ?
[13:14]  * mozzwald is away: hardly working
[13:26] <lag> JameswStubbs: Have you tried using rootstock?
[13:27] <ogra> JameswStubbs, yes
[13:28] <ogra> if you use the qemu-arm-static package
[13:28] <ogra> you can a) use rootstock to create a tarball and b) just create armel chroots using qemu-debootstrap
[13:30] <JameswStubbs> Thanks, I'll be using rootstock on x86 ubuntu, creating an image, using iDroid's kernel then mounting in qemu
[13:31] <lag> ogra: So you also need initrd on the card to run?
[13:31] <ogra> lag, you *can* use ubuntu without initrd but i wouldnt recommend it other than for testing
[13:31] <lag> JameswStubbs: That should work. I'm using rootstock on an x86 machine too
[13:31] <JameswStubbs> Is the idea behind rootstock to build a Very minimal system and then to build from there?
[13:32] <ogra> well, depends if the droid kernel has all the features ubuntu uses
[13:32] <ogra> JameswStubbs, yes, use -s ubuntu-minimal
[13:32] <ogra> and do everything you want additional on the real HW
[13:32] <JameswStubbs> :p Thanks ogra, I was going to leave the --seed option blank :)
[13:33] <ogra> should work as well
[13:33] <ogra> will result in the same :)
[13:34] <lag> ogra: So, do I just bang the rootfs.tgz and initrd onto the rootfs partition and expect it to work?
[13:34] <JameswStubbs> lag: Are you talking about something different to me? (just stopping myself getting confused :p )
[13:34] <lilstevie> what features are required from kernel for ubuntu
[13:35] <lag> JameswStubbs: Yes, I'm doing something slightly different
[13:35] <JameswStubbs> Ok
[13:35] <lilstevie> with rootstock we need to generate an img
[13:35] <lilstevie> as openiboot for the iphone loads an img for rootfs
[13:36] <ogra> lag, nope
[13:36] <ogra> lag, you put the rootfs into the rootfs partition
[13:36] <ogra> and initrd wherever your bootloader wants it
[13:38] <ogra> lag, for omap thats usually the first partition on the SD and it should be a vfat
[13:38] <JameswStubbs> lilstevie: Yeh that's right, but Idroid has multiple images where as our whole distro will be in one image
[13:38] <JameswStubbs> We might have to point oib in a different direction to find the info
[13:38] <lilstevie> JameswStubbs: thats because they are mounted individually
[13:38] <JameswStubbs> So we could probably get away with renaming or image system.img
[13:38] <lilstevie> initrc points to the other images
[13:39] <JameswStubbs> It doesnt do a hash check or anything
[13:39] <JameswStubbs> Yeh lilstevie
[13:39] <lilstevie> so we just need our own init
[13:40] <ogra> make sure that your img usues a supported filesystem
[13:41] <lag> ogra: So the initrd goes in the /boot partition then?
[13:41] <ogra> no
[13:41] <ogra> it goes into the vfat
[13:42] <ogra> and you need to specify it in your bootm command for u-boot
[13:42] <lag> /dev/sde1 on /media/boot type vfat
[13:42] <ogra> well, you labeled it boot :)
[13:42] <lag> I didn't
[13:42] <ogra> something did
[13:42] <lag> The script that cooloney pointed me to did
[13:42] <lag> :)
[13:42] <ogra> ah
[13:43] <JameswStubbs> lilstevie: We wouldn't necesarily need our own init, simply modify iDroids to point to the right images
[13:43] <ogra> its not /boot (and cant be)
[13:43] <ogra> it just smells like /boot :)
[13:43] <JameswStubbs> Mm, fresh smell of /boot in the morning
[13:43] <lag> eh?
[13:43] <ogra>  /boot cant be vfat on debian based systems
[13:44] <ogra> dpkg unpacks the kernel there, while unpacking it creates hardlinks of the former files
[13:45] <lag> Oh okay, it's just the partition label
[13:45] <lag> It won't actually be /boot, as in /boot/grub
[13:45] <ogra> vfat doesnt support hardlinks
[13:45] <ogra> so /boot cant be vfat
[13:45] <lag> But yes, I see what you mean
[13:46] <ogra> right
[13:46] <lag> Perhaps it's a confusing name
[13:46] <ogra> its still your boot-partition
[13:46] <ogra> but you cant mount it as /boot
[13:46] <lag> Correct
[13:46] <lag> Which is where the initrc needs to go, correct?
[13:47] <ogra> since our kernels and initrds live in /boot, we have a tool called flash-kernel thats works around this prob
[13:47] <ogra> its usually called buy update-initramfs (which in turn is called by the kernel package when you install it)
[13:47] <ogra> flash-kernel mounts /dev/mmcblk0p1 and runs mkimage for kernel and initrd to create uInitrd and uImage
[13:48] <ogra> (or at least iots supposed to, it doesnt do that for the panda or beagle yet, i will have to write some code still)
[13:51] <ogra> lag, mkimage -A arm -O linux -T ramdisk -C none -a 0x0 -e 0x0 -n "Ubuntu Initrd" -d /path/to/initrd.img-$ver uInitrd
[13:51] <ogra> you will need that
[13:51] <lag> Ag
[13:51] <lag> Ah*
[13:51] <ogra> fatload mmc 0:1 0x80000000 uImage
[13:52] <ogra> fatload mmc 0:1 0x81600000 uInitrd
[13:52] <ogra> bootm 0x80000000 0x81600000
[13:52] <ogra> thats for the u-boot prompt
[13:52] <ogra> and should get you a boot with initrd
[13:54] <lag> So the uImage and the uInitrd go on the same place on the SD card?
[13:56] <ogra> right, into the vfat
[13:57] <lag> Yep
[13:57] <lag> And is the rootfs okay to go in as a tgz?
[13:57] <lag> Or should I unpack it first?
[13:57] <JameswStubbs> Thanks again for your help ogra
[13:58] <ogra> lag, format the partition and unpack
[13:58] <ogra> JameswStubbs, welcome, good luck
[13:59] <lag> Thought as much
[13:59]  * lag wondered when they'd put tgz support into the kernel
[14:01] <ogra> heh
[14:08] <ogra> NCommander, bah, bug 583317 will bite us badly
[14:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 583317 in genext2fs (Ubuntu) "genext2fs creates revision 0 filesystems instead of revision 1 (affects: 1) (heat: 156)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583317
[14:19] <ogra> ha !
[14:19] <ogra> finally
[14:19] <ogra> how silly
[14:20]  * ogra finally found the reason why resize2fs didnt work in initramfs ... seems it has a call to /etc/mtab hardcoded
[14:36] <lag> Is the rootfs created by rootstock meant to pull up a terminal?
[14:37] <ogra> lag, yep
[14:37] <lag> Freeing init memory: 192K
[14:37] <lag> init: ureadahead main process (55) terminated with status 5
[14:37] <lag> twl: i2c_write failed to transfer all messages
[14:37] <lag> i2c_omap i2c_omap.1: controller timed out
[14:37] <lag> twl: i2c_read failed to transfer all messages
[14:37] <lag> twl6030_bci: error reading CONTROLLER_CTRL1
[14:37] <lag> Then nothing
[14:38] <ogra> whats your console= setting in the cmdline ?
[14:38] <ogra> and what was the rootstock cmdline you used :)
[14:39] <ogra> by default ubuntu has no serial getty running ... you can enable it in rootstock with the --serial switch
[14:40] <lag> I did that
[14:40] <lag> Let me have a play
[14:40] <ogra> do you have a monitor attached ?
[14:40] <ogra> i'm pretty sure you have a login prompt on tty1 :)
[14:40] <lag> I don't have a monitor which supports HDMI
[14:40] <ogra> you should get one :)
[14:41] <ogra> or DVI at least and an adapter
[14:41] <hrw> cheapest lcd with dvi is enough for BB
[14:41] <lag> True HDMI doesn't work with adaptors
[14:42] <hrw> lag: define 'true hdmi' please
[14:42] <ogra> hrw, the panda has hdmi
[14:42] <lag> True HDMI sends co-data to control the output settings
[14:42] <hrw> ogra: with audio over hdmi or just hdmi connector?
[14:43] <hrw> lag: you mean HDMI/CI?
[14:43] <lag> I forget what it's called
[14:43] <hrw> CI or CEC - adapted from SCART connector
[14:43] <ogra> hrw, the current build i have has a headphone jack and two HDMI ports
[14:43] <lag> I just know that when I was working on set-top boxes some worked with a connector and some didn't
[14:43] <hrw> used to say 'TV - I am here, switch to my hdmi port'
[14:43] <ogra> hrw, but that might change
[14:44] <lag> Could well be
[14:44] <lag> Will the Panda work with a connector?
[14:44] <hrw> BB has hdmi connector just because it is smaller then dvi. works fine with hdmi->hdmi cable and with hdmi->hdmi-to-dvi adapters
[14:44] <hrw> so far worked for me with dvi monitors and hdmi tv
[14:44] <ogra> lag, i havent booted mine beyond the uboot prompt yet
[14:44] <lag> What about Panda?
[14:45] <lag> ogra: Why so?
[14:45] <lag> Aren't you working on the kernel?
[14:45] <ogra> while the BB has DVI i think the panda has HDMI
[14:45] <ogra> lag, i'm working on all the rest :)
[14:45] <lag> Right, so the connector will be no good?
[14:45] <ogra> yeah, likely
[14:46] <lag> Well I don't want to outlay for a new monitor :S
[14:49]  * ogra stbs jasper
[14:49] <ogra> *stabs even
[15:05] <lag> cooloney: ping
[15:11] <cooloney> lag: lee, man
[15:12] <lag> ubuntu@panda:~$ ls /
[15:12] <lag> bin   dev  home  lost+found  mnt  proc  sbin     srv  tmp  var
[15:12] <lag> boot  etc  lib   media       opt  root  selinux  sys  usr
[15:12] <lag> Good work
[15:13] <lag> cooloney: --^
[15:13] <cooloney> lag: haha, cong, man
[15:14] <lag> cong?
[15:14] <cooloney> lag: very good news before my sleep. you built your own u-boot to make it boot?
[15:14] <cooloney> lag: sorry, congrats
[15:14] <lag> The u-boot I was trying to use didn't pass the kernel's system ID check
[15:14] <ogra> king cong :)
[15:15] <ogra> (very big congrats)
[15:15] <cooloney> ogra: lol
[15:15] <lag> You mean King Kong?
[15:15] <ogra> pfft
[15:15] <ogra> chars
[15:15] <cooloney> lag: hmm, that reminds me a warning message from dmesg
[15:15] <lag> Oh?
[15:16] <cooloney> lag: Uninitialized omap_chip, please fix!
[15:16] <cooloney> did you see that in your dmesg?
[15:16] <lag> Oh yeah, I see it
[15:16] <lag> Yeah, it's in dmesg
[15:16] <cooloney> the kernel code checked omap cpu id or system id something like that
[15:16] <lag> ubuntu@panda:~$ dmesg | grep -i omap_chip
[15:16] <lag> Uninitialized omap_chip, please fix!
[15:16] <cooloney> and failed
[15:17] <cooloney> then print out this
[15:17] <cooloney> maybe relatedt
[15:17] <cooloney> i will check them later
[15:17] <cooloney> lag, thanks for testing, man
[15:17]  * cooloney gonna sleep now.
[15:17] <lag> No problem - speak to you tomorrow
[15:18] <cooloney> have a nice day, guys
[15:32] <orbarron> ogra: any issues with pandaboard or trees?
[15:32] <ogra> orbarron, see above, lag successfully booted his panda
[15:32]  * orbarron reads...
[15:32] <ogra> i'm currently hogged with image building which i do on a C4
[15:33] <ogra> not much spare time for omap4 work here
[15:34] <orbarron> np...
[15:44] <orbarron> lag: pandaboard has DVI + HDMI and HDMI to DVI connection will work with a small hack
[15:48] <lag> I should have a monitor with HDMI built-in with me tomorrow
[15:49] <lag> What would the hack be?
[15:52]  * orbarron dealing with dsi clk issues but for the mean time you can do this --> http://pastebin.com/8LVZYWnx
[15:53] <hrw> orbarron: hi Omar
[15:53] <orbarron> hrw: sup...
[15:53] <mpoirier_> asac
[16:04] <asac> mpoirier_: !!
[16:05] <mpoirier_> asac: good morning.
[16:05] <mpoirier_> asac: ogra tells me you have a beagleboard C4 - is this correct ?
[16:06] <asac> mpoirier_: why? ;)
[16:07] <mpoirier_> asac: I could use it if you don't need it.
[16:07] <asac> I need it
[16:07] <ogra> asac, mpoirier is our new omap3 maintainer in the kernel team
[16:07] <asac> mpoirier_: alread discused with ogra. we gave boards to davidm for distro
[16:07] <ogra> mpoirier, we're waiting for feedback from lool, he should know what happened to the missing boards
[16:08] <asac> if nothing helps and its urgent i would suggest to buy a board ;)
[16:08] <ogra> according to asac they should all be at davidm's place
[16:09] <mpoirier_> ogra: and davidm is coming back next week ?
[16:09] <ogra> will be faster to wait until next week
[16:09] <ogra> mpoirier_, yes
[16:09] <ogra> asac, and we *have* 7 boards in mobile
[16:09] <ogra> its just a matter where they actually are
[16:09] <asac> well ... one dev blocked for half a day is probably more expensive than a board ;)
[16:10] <asac> and we are already pulling in 4 devs into this discussion ;)
[16:10] <ogra> asac, ordering and shipping a beagle takes more than a weekend
[16:10] <ogra> 4 ?
[16:10] <asac> me you mpoirier_ and lool
[16:10] <ogra> well, no trace of lool :)
[16:10] <ogra> so 3 :P
[16:11] <asac> but lool will have to read plenty of backlog now ;)
[16:12] <asac> anyway ... mpoirier_: welcome!
[16:22] <ogra> mpoirier_, GrueMaster is your guineapig !
[16:23] <mpoirier_> ogra: cool - thanks.
[16:24] <mpoirier_> GrueMaster: can I send you a uImage ?
[16:27] <GrueMaster> Or post it online and I can download it.
[16:58] <lool> asac: Is the backlog relevant still?
[16:58] <lool> I read this channel usually, but I wont make the full backlog Im afraid
[16:58] <lool> hey mpoirier_!
[16:59] <mpoirier_> lool: good morning.
[16:59] <mpoirier_> lool: I need a beableboard C4, do you need yours ?
[16:59] <ogra> lool, it isnt
[16:59] <mpoirier_> lool: what version then ?
[16:59] <ogra> lool, the discussion in the other channel solved itr
[16:59] <lool> mpoirier_: Mine is a C3 and is personally owned
[17:00] <ogra> *it
[17:00] <ogra> mpoirier_, see PM
[17:00] <lool> mpoirier_: I understand that if you want to find an idle one, you should ask davidm cause he might have a couple of spare ones
[17:00] <mpoirier_> lool: yes, he's on vacation.
[17:00] <lool> mpoirier_: If that blocks you in anyway, I highly recommend you talk to your manager: buying it and expensing it might be cheaper than the time you're losing searching for one
[17:00] <ogra> lool, for now GrueMaster will help testing
[17:01] <lool> mpoirier_: Are you testing kernels?
[17:01] <lool> mpoirier_: You could also use qemu-maemo   :-)
[17:01] <lool> (/me lols)
[17:01] <ogra> *grin*
[17:01] <mpoirier_> lool: yes, I ping'ed you  before GrueMaster got on board.
[17:01] <mpoirier_> lool: I need real Hw
[17:01] <lool> mpoirier_: So mattman has been making progress on booting up to a framebuffer our regular Ubuntu omap kernels in qemu-maemo + his patches
[17:02] <mpoirier_> lool: I'm after a misbehaving SD card controller.
[17:02] <lool> mpoirier_: So perhaps you can ask pgraner whether you can expense it?
[17:02] <mpoirier_> lool: yes, that is also in the works.
[17:02] <ogra> lool, davidm shoudl be able to send one out on monday
[17:03] <lool> Up to you guys, many options on the table
[17:03] <mpoirier_> lool: ogra is correct.
[17:03] <ogra> so it should arrive on wed. on CDN
[17:03] <ogra> *in
[17:03] <mpoirier_> lool: thanks for getting back to me.
[17:03] <asac> lool: nope
[17:04] <jayabharath> orga: I'm curious...Is there any stats on how many people actually downloaded the 10.04 Ubuntu image for beagleboard from ubuntu.com ? Who would know this detail
[17:04] <ogra> jayabharath, hmm, no idea, our is team probably, try to ask elmo in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-release
[17:04] <jayabharath> ok
[17:05] <jayabharath> orga: Also, I got a bunch of beagle folks a little annoyed with the way Ubunutu CD images.. work... it boots up from SD... overwrite the uboot on nand... messes with the existing SD card...
[17:05] <ogra> (i guess -release is the better channel for that)
[17:05] <jayabharath> orga: Will check on -release channel
[17:05] <ogra> jayabharath, yeah, that will be fixed in maverick
[17:05] <hrw> have nice day
[17:06] <ogra> jayabharath, i wanted to use a vfat partition but had no time left to implement that, NAND was the quickest way back then
[17:06] <jayabharath> orga: I see...
[17:06] <ogra> maverick will be quite different in that regard
[17:07] <jayabharath> orga: gotcha.. wanted to feed this input back to you...
[17:07] <jayabharath> orga: As you are changing behavior feel free to discuss on #beagle channel too...
[17:07] <ogra> yeah, i knew it wasnt the best to do when i implemented it, if someone asks you again send them to me, i'll pay them beer
[17:07] <jayabharath> orga: or write up a blog post :)
[17:08] <jayabharath> ogra: I am sure people a few folks here can use beers ;)
[17:08] <ogra> jayabharath, i will hopefulle meet some of the #beagle folks tomorrow at linuxtag
[17:08]  * ogra wants to meet koen in person at least
[17:08] <jayabharath> ogra: most certainly... I belive Koen is planning to be there...
[17:08] <ogra> yeah, he will leave tomorrow evening
[17:09] <jayabharath> orga: check his pockets he will have a few beagleXMs :)
[17:09] <ogra> thats why i go tomorrow, else i would have gone fri and sat
[17:09] <ogra> heh
[17:12]  * ogra goes back to his initramfs pain
[17:20] <ogra> NCommander, did you see my ping above btw ?
[17:20] <ogra> NCommander, bug 583317
[17:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 583317 in genext2fs (Ubuntu) "genext2fs creates revision 0 filesystems instead of revision 1 (affects: 1) (heat: 156)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583317
[17:40] <ogra> yay
[17:41] <ogra> asac, dropping the fsck and instead diong e2fsck during image build fixes jasper :)
[17:42] <asac> ogra: hackish!
[17:43] <ogra> why ?
[17:43] <asac> j.k.
[17:43] <ogra> heh
[17:43] <asac> what is that doing different?
[17:43] <ogra> now i need a solution for that horridly long resize process
[17:43] <asac> write a script to put stuff on sdcard ;)
[17:43] <asac> or other media
[17:44] <ogra> the fsck exited with exit 2 due to the fact that the timestamp is out of order
[17:44] <ogra> that tears down the whole initramfs script
[17:44] <ogra> so it never gets to the resize operation
[17:44] <ogra> no, no scripts, the image will be dd'able like all ubuntu images
[17:48] <ogra> (initramfs) df
[17:48] <ogra> Filesystem           1024-blocks    Used Available Use% Mounted on
[17:48] <ogra> none                    116988       128    116860   0% /dev
[17:48] <ogra> /dev/mmcblk0p2         3767479    400383   3177098  11% /root
[17:48] <ogra> wohoo !
[17:57] <ogra> Begin: Running /scripts/local-premount ...
[17:57] <ogra> [    4.288238]  mmcblk0: p1 p2
[17:57] <ogra> Resizing root filesystem please wait, this will take several minutes ...
[17:57]  * ogra dances
[18:03] <GrueMaster> cool.
[18:03] <ogra> hmm, several ...
[18:07] <ogra> 6 min for 4G
[18:10] <GrueMaster> what system is this on?
[18:11] <GrueMaster> Also, what class SD card?
[18:11] <GrueMaster> ogra: ^^^
[18:12] <ogra> class4 4G sandisk on the beagle C4
[18:12] <ogra> growing the root from 450M to 4G
[18:12] <GrueMaster> That will be a bit slow.
[18:13] <ogra> the netbook image will be 1.4G
[18:13] <GrueMaster> Slow I/O, slow SD card.
[18:13] <ogra> i have some hope it will be faster to grow from 1.4 to 4G
[18:13] <GrueMaster> 1.4G for the image?  Is that the download size?
[18:14] <ogra> nop
[18:14] <GrueMaster> ok.
[18:14] <ogra> the image will be a .img.bz2 file :)
[18:14] <ogra> will be around 500M
[18:14] <ogra> you need to uncompress and dd it
[18:14] <GrueMaster> We need to keep it below 700M if possible.
[18:15] <ogra> well
[18:15] <ogra> i'll do that if thats possible, but its a preinstalled image
[18:15] <ogra> its not like anything we built before
[18:15] <GrueMaster> I understand.  That is going to have to be part of the package selection process.
[18:16] <ogra> so i dont really care if it bumps above 700M
[18:16] <GrueMaster> The 700M limit is mainly for distribution purposes.  So people can order a copy of the image on CD.
[18:16] <ogra> who does that ?
[18:17] <ogra> where would that be offered ?
[18:17] <GrueMaster> People with low bandwidth.
[18:17] <ogra> for these 20 ppl we can also send out a dvd
[18:17] <GrueMaster> Doesn't that show up on ubuntu.com?
[18:17] <GrueMaster> heh.
[18:17] <ogra> since that will be a manual effort anyway
[18:17] <ogra> arm images arent offered in the shop
[18:18] <GrueMaster> oh.
[18:18] <ogra> cross your fingers, i might be able to give you a "serial only, commandline only" preinstalled image today
[18:18] <GrueMaster> Then why the fuss over image size in past cycles?
[18:18] <GrueMaster> That would be cool.
[18:18] <GrueMaster> I can always add from there.
[18:19] <ogra> ask david and persia :)
[18:19] <GrueMaster> (assuming I have some console).
[18:19] <ogra> i always insisted its nonsense to bind ourselves to 700M
[18:29] <ogra> GrueMaster, bah, oem-config doesnt start :/
[18:29] <GrueMaster> oops.
[18:29] <ogra> lol
[18:30] <ogra> heh, i spoke to soon
[18:30] <ogra> it just runs on tty1
[18:30] <ogra> so you have to jump between serial for booting and tty1 for oem-config with this image, lets see
[18:34] <ogra> hmm, no keyboard might be because it doesnt think there is a console
[18:34]  * ogra retries
[18:34] <ogra> last round now
[18:48] <ogra> GrueMaster, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/jasper/ give it another 10min for the upload and you can pull it
[18:48] <ogra> (shoudl be around 132M if its done)
[18:48] <GrueMaster> ok
[18:49] <GrueMaster> so, why hold down the user button?
[18:49] <ogra> GrueMaster, oh, and ignore the OOM message from ureadahead during boot :) i have to talk to Keybuk about that one its no issue (at least it shouldnt be)
[18:49] <ogra> to make it use x.loader from the SD
[18:50] <GrueMaster> ah.
[18:50] <ogra> *x-loader
[18:50] <ogra> i have one old B3 board here that doesnt get along with the old x-loader in NAND and the new u-boot on the SD
[18:50] <GrueMaster> I would have just used the uboot cmdline, but this works.
[18:50] <ogra> so thats the safest option
[18:51]  * ogra really hopes oem-config will DTRT
[18:51] <ogra> i havent seen it finishing yet, but i have to end my day
[18:52] <GrueMaster> ok.  I'll start testing and let you know how it turns out.
[18:52] <ogra> oh, and if you fiddle with kernels, you have to mount mmcblk0p1 manually and generate uImage and uInitrd manually onto that partition
[18:52] <ogra> flash-kernel doesnt know the new image design yet
[18:53] <GrueMaster> I only have 2G & 4G SD cards atm.  Will order an 8, 16, & 32 on payday.
[18:53] <ogra> be aware it will all be fiddly and broken atm :)
[18:53] <GrueMaster> ok
[18:53] <GrueMaster> I didn't think it would be release wothy yet.
[18:53] <ogra> its my first manually rolled test
[18:53] <GrueMaster> s/wothy/worthy
[18:54] <ogra> if stuff works its a matter of luck :)
[18:55] <ogra> hmm, but it seems to work
[18:56] <ogra> bah
[18:56] <ogra> jasper is removed but oem-config didnt re-roll the initramfs
[18:56] <GrueMaster> hrm.
[18:56] <ogra> so it will try to resize on next boot again :(
[18:57] <GrueMaster> I didn't think oem-config rerolled the initrd.
[18:57] <ogra> cjwatson said it would
[18:58] <ogra> well, sudo apt-get purge jasper && sudo update-initramfs -u
[18:58] <GrueMaster> Might need an extra parameter.
[18:58] <ogra> and then the mkimage stuff and copying uInitrd to the first partition
[18:59] <GrueMaster> finished downloading, extracting and dd'ng now.
[19:00] <ogra> good luck :)
[19:00]  * ogra is gone
[19:00] <GrueMaster> g'night.
[21:19] <slangasek> jcrigby: any luck yet with linkat?
[21:20] <slangasek> jcrigby: it's looking to me like a regression in gnulib's linkat replacement, which was only introduced to the coreutils package in the merge of the latest upstream release; but I have no clue why it's not showing up on all archs
[21:24] <bullet9mm> ciao a tutti...c'è qualche anima pia che mi potrebbe consigliare qualche fonte per poter installare ubuntu su processore arm?
[21:26] <bullet9mm> sorry...there is someone who can advise me about some source of information for installing ubuntu on arm?
[21:32] <slangasek> bullet9mm: http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ provides images for Dove an i.MX51 systems; http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.04/release/ has images for OMAP3 systems (e.g., the Beagleboard); https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM is the landing page for ARM on Ubuntu information in general
[21:32] <slangasek> <- anima pia
[21:35] <bullet9mm> slangasek  .....grazie...era proprio quello che stavo cercando...
[21:36] <slangasek> you're welcome :)
[21:37] <GrueMaster> bullet9mm: What platform are you interested in specifically?
[21:40] <jcrigby> slangasek: still working on it, not much progress yet
[21:41] <jcrigby> I did notice a linkat fix in ltp.  Something about not doing the test in a tmpfs mount because you get a different error for one of the tests
[21:43] <jcrigby> Also once my build did finish the resulting binary seemed to work for me on qemu
[21:43] <slangasek> jcrigby: ok.  Things I've learned so far: REPLACE_LINKAT is being set but isn't used when linking the test suite; LINK_FOLLOWS_SYMLINK is detected as '0' in the build env, which is the condition that causes the failing assert to be tested; and these two things are related
[21:43] <slangasek> jcrigby: oh, interesting - I was testing on tmpfs here as well, maybe I should test on ext3
[21:43] <slangasek> (my test on NFS+gssapi failed miserably :)
[21:44] <jcrigby> ahh
[21:44] <slangasek> it was definitely reproducible for me on tmpfs
[21:48] <kblin> hey slangasek
[21:48]  * slangasek waves
[21:48] <slangasek> kblin: how goes? :)
[21:48] <kblin> fine, busy with work, but then who isn't :)
[22:34] <bullet9mm> sorry for the delay...I'm watching for beagleboard and igepv3 board...
[22:34] <bullet9mm> GrueMaster
[22:35] <GrueMaster> Not sure about the igepv3 board, but we have detailed instructions for 10.04 on beagle at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle.
[22:38] <bullet9mm> yes...I've watched it 20 minute ago...cool doc...  :)
[22:38] <bullet9mm> *minutes
[22:39] <GrueMaster> Maverick images (10.10) will be live from the start.  No installation. (we will still have a netboot install image).
[22:44] <bullet9mm> I've found this...
[22:44] <bullet9mm> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard
[22:44] <bullet9mm> it's ok?
[22:47] <GrueMaster> I guess.  It is more of a general info page for beagleboards.  It has a lot of great info, but their Ubuntu Lucid info is a bit weak.
[22:49] <bullet9mm> mmm..
[22:49] <GrueMaster> It doesn't even mention our live netbook image.
[22:49] <GrueMaster> Other than that minor detail, the info looks good.
[22:50] <bullet9mm> got it...some impression about beagleboard+lucid?
[22:52] <GrueMaster> It works.  Main issue is memory limitations on the beagleboard, and there are some apps that have issues, mainly mono based apps.
[22:53] <GrueMaster> Also, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/LucidReleaseNotes
[22:54] <bullet9mm> are you talking about the RAM?
[22:55] <GrueMaster> yes.  The beagleboard only has 256M.  The XM has 512, which should help with performance.
[22:56] <bullet9mm> yes...but it isn't on sale...still...
[22:58] <bullet9mm> ...think wait for the XM version...
[22:58] <GrueMaster> The XM is on sale.  Just out of stock (I think).
[22:59] <slangasek> is it, now? I heard there were production delays
[23:01] <bullet9mm> yes...I have asked into the beagleboard's irc chan and they responded me that it isn't on sale...
[23:02] <GrueMaster> Ah.  beagleboard.org hasn't been updated then.
[23:03] <bullet9mm> @.@
[23:04] <bullet9mm> then xm are for sale but out of stock?
[23:05] <bullet9mm> *on sale
[23:06] <slangasek> jcrigby: same failure on ext3
[23:07] <slangasek> jcrigby: beagleboard, in all cases; if you're in qemu, maybe the x86ness of the env is showing through and leading you astray :/
[23:13] <jcrigby> perhaps
[23:16] <cwillu_at_work> GrueMaster, bullet9mm, afaik the xm isn't available yet
[23:17] <GrueMaster> That's what was said earlier.  Any idea as to eta?
[23:17] <cwillu_at_work> nope
[23:17] <cwillu_at_work> "soon"
[23:18] <bullet9mm> :(
[23:19] <cwillu_at_work> I'm disappointed they dropped the sd reader;  you can't get good microsd cards in my experience
[23:21] <GrueMaster> Well, Amazon has 2 16G class 10 microSD cards, but they are almost $100 US.
[23:21] <cwillu_at_work> that doesn't tell you anything useful though
[23:21] <GrueMaster> Too bad they aren't using regular SD instead of microSD.
[23:21] <cwillu_at_work> you need to know if it's slc flash, and you need to know the wear-levelling, or at least a firmware revision so that you can know that your testing is meaningful
[23:25] <rcn-ee> gerald and ti are saying early-mid july for shipments in quanity...
[23:27] <bullet9mm> nice :)
[23:28] <bullet9mm> ...do you think that xm will able to support kde4?
[23:28] <rcn-ee> ah.. my 'Bx' rand kde 2 years ago...
[23:29] <rcn-ee> it just needs lots of swap, use an external usb drive and don't bother with a slow mmc card...
[23:29] <cwillu_at_work> 512mb should be sufficient to run it without swap though
[23:30] <bullet9mm> yes...i think too...
[23:31] <rcn-ee> if you have a igepv_2 laying around, just give that a try. (it has 512Mb). (and image the cpu speed bumped from 720 to 1Ghz)
[23:32] <cwillu_at_work> hmm, there's a 2gb microsd with slc flash :/
[23:33] <bullet9mm> in fact they are undecided between XM and beagleboard igepv2 ... any advice?
[23:34] <bullet9mm> sorry...I'm undecided
[23:34] <rcn-ee> well the beagleboard and igepv2 are available now..  xm in july...
[23:34] <cwillu_at_work> bullet9mm, igepv2 is actually intended for industrial/commercial purposes, the beagle doesn't have any such guarentees
[23:35] <rcn-ee> the beagles is only 'guarented' to be a dev board, anything you do beyond that is up to your testing.. ;)
[23:35] <cwillu_at_work> exactly
[23:35] <bullet9mm> mmm...and igev2 have bluetooth and wifi modules embedded...
[23:35] <rcn-ee> i keep hearing rumors of a igev3.. is that comming out this summer?
[23:36] <cwillu_at_work> oooo, a 4gb microsd with a manufacturer quoted write endurance of 2 million read/write/erase cycles
[23:37] <cwillu_at_work> that would make the xm (and the igep) doable for me
[23:37] <cwillu_at_work> and I can get them through bluestar
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> oh, goodie
[23:38]  * cwillu_at_work does a happy dance
[23:38] <rcn-ee> do they have a written guarntee? i know your going to test it..  (on the bright side, i believe the xm is coming with a micro-sd card with angstrom (not 100%) i'll probally be an el cheapo micro-sd0
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> yep
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> yep to the el cheapo, that was
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> http://www.atpinc.com/p2-4a.php?sn=00000391
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> they quote that value in the specs sheet
[23:39] <cwillu_at_work> I'll have to wait until tomorrow to find prices though :/
[23:39] <bullet9mm> any idea about an lcd touch for igepv2?..the beagle lcd it's ok?
[23:40] <cwillu_at_work> nope, sorry
[23:40] <bullet9mm> at first sight seems to be...
[23:40] <bullet9mm> O.o
[23:41] <cwillu_at_work> as in I don't know :p
[23:41] <bullet9mm> http://www.igep.es/images/stories/igepv2_rc_photo2.jpg
[23:42] <rcn-ee> no.. i haven't seen a good lcd solution available for beagles yet..  the interface is their on the cx's..
[23:42] <bullet9mm> the socket seems the same...
[23:42] <bullet9mm> http://www.liquidware.com/shop/show/BB-BT/BeagleTouch
[23:43] <rcn-ee> that's actually very nice...
[23:45] <cwillu_at_work> heh: http://www.liquidware.com/shop/show/QCT/QuadCore+Tower+Kit
[23:47] <bullet9mm> niiicee  :)
[23:47] <cwillu_at_work> siiiily  :p
[23:49] <bullet9mm> it's a gem...not useful, but a gem...
[23:49] <bullet9mm> :P


[00:01] <pleia2> Vantrax: we were talking about this earlier today, according to the doodle poll 00:00 UTC on monday and tuesday (sunday and monday night for most of us, monday and tuesday morning for you?) tend to be the best
[00:01] <pleia2> I'd vote for second sunday and third monday at that time
[00:02] <pleia2> err
[00:02] <pleia2> first monday and third sunday
[00:02] <pleia2> or something :)
[00:03] <Vantrax> thats 10am for me, and I can usually make it
[00:03] <Vantrax> that being said, I am at work
[00:08] <bodhizazen> +1 for 00:00 UTC
[00:08] <bodhizazen> most any day ;P
[00:09] <bodhizazen> we should put it on the fridge or a personal (gcal) ?
[00:14] <bodhizazen> pleia2: my session in 45 min ?
[00:15] <pleia2> bodhizazen: yes :)
[00:33] <Vantrax> fridge imo
[00:33] <Vantrax> for team meetings anyway
[00:53] <bodhizazen> session in 5 min or so :)
[02:25] <pleia2> cprofitt: someday I must pick your brain about running concise, successful meetings :) I am terrible at it
[02:26] <cprofitt> lol... why do you say that?
[02:26] <pleia2> tangents, losing my train of thought :)
[02:26] <cprofitt> pleia2, today's event - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090604
[02:26] <pleia2> yeah, I saw! nice :)
[02:26] <cprofitt> you just have to be single minded like me...
[02:26] <pleia2> hehe
[02:27] <pleia2> so in meetings I get distracted by tangents because I *want* input from other people, I don't want them to feel bad about offering suggestions
[02:28] <cprofitt> I see...
[02:28] <doctormo> I vote -1 for calling the website after the initalism, it's not a very good brand
[02:28] <cprofitt> write down the 'off-topic' ideas... and tell them you will get back to that point later pleia2
[02:28] <cprofitt> what website cprofitt
[02:29] <doctormo> That's what you have to do when you chair a meeting
[02:29] <cprofitt> I mean doctormo what website?
[02:29] <doctormo> The ubuntu learning website
[02:29] <pleia2> cprofitt: I am bad at saying that nicely, or I spend too much time trying to think of how to say it nicely :)
[02:29] <doctormo> [18:48] <bodhizazen> so IMO UCLP is best , but I am flexible
[02:30] <doctormo> pleia2: you don't get points for nice, you get points for being fair and decisive.
[02:30] <cprofitt> don't try to say it nicely... just say it... tell people at the meeting start...
[02:30] <cprofitt> so the website will be called UCLP?
[02:31] <doctormo> cprofitt: I hope it won't be called UCLP
[02:31] <cprofitt> I thought is was Ubuntu Community Learning Project
[02:31] <cprofitt> which is ULCP...
[02:31] <cprofitt> what are the other alternatives?
[02:32] <cprofitt> UCLP I mean...
[02:32] <doctormo> No, think about branding, design, ULCP is a jaundiced brand.
[02:32] <cprofitt> why?
[02:32] <doctormo> It talks of "people who couldn't think up a good name" not "what the thing does"
[02:32] <doctormo> "Ubuntu Learning" should be fine.
[02:33] <cprofitt> So you want to drop the Community and Project part...
[02:33] <doctormo> yep
[02:33] <doctormo> Have those in the sub-title as I have in my graphic I posted last night
[02:33] <cprofitt> I have no issue with that... and I am the one that threw out the ULCP name -- I did not expect people to like it, but they did.
[02:33] <cprofitt> link to graphic
[02:39] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/learning/title.png
[02:42] <pleia2> I like the simplicity
[02:42] <cprofitt> doctormo, that works for me
[02:44] <cprofitt> so pleia2 would you come to Rochester if it had a Linux Festival?
[02:44] <pleia2> cprofitt: depends on when :)
[02:44] <cprofitt> Spring time frame I think...
[02:44] <cprofitt> too many other things in the fall...
[02:45] <cprofitt> we are probably over a year out on it though...
[02:45] <cprofitt> we need to build some more vendor support
[02:45]  * pleia2 nods
[02:45] <pleia2> build it, I will come :)
[02:45] <cprofitt> I forced the Dell reps to come look at our packed room...
[02:45] <pleia2> hehe
[02:45] <cprofitt> and told them I would love to have them do an Ubuntu demo with their units
[02:46] <cprofitt> they were all baffled that they sold Linux
[02:46] <cprofitt> sales people are dense at times... at least the ones that work for Dell
[02:46] <pleia2> lol
[02:46] <cprofitt> their tech support is not much better...
[02:46] <cprofitt> but they do sell Ubuntu machines
[02:49] <doctormo> cprofitt: At least you got into their heads right?
[02:51] <cprofitt> Well.. make them think it is worth talking about... worth supporting
[02:52] <cprofitt> It bothers me more that Dell sells them and hides them than it does that HP and Lenovo do not sell them
[02:53] <doctormo> pardon?
[02:53] <doctormo> Are you saying that HP doesn't sell Ubuntu machines?
[02:53] <doctormo> or are you saying that Dell thinks HP doesn't sell Ubuntu machines?
[02:56] <cprofitt> HP does not sell ubuntu machiens
[02:56] <cprofitt> Dell sells them... but hides them
[02:56] <cprofitt> that upsets me... why hide the fact you are selling them
[03:00] <Vantrax> HP does, just not desktops
[03:02] <cprofitt> They sell Ubuntu Vantrax ? I knew they sold Linux, but was unaware of Ubuntu
[03:03] <Vantrax> on servers only, Canonical is actually in the process of getting certified atm from memory
[03:04] <cprofitt> so they are selling or will sell?
[03:05] <Vantrax> we had the option on it from our reseller a few months ago when we bought a server
[03:05] <cprofitt> nice... have not seen that in the states yet
[03:05] <Vantrax> that 'might' have been because of who we are as opposed to a standard
[03:05] <doctormo> cprofitt: HP sells a netbook with Ubuntu on it called the "HP Mini Mi", the Canonical guys down here at Lexington were the ones payed by HP to develop it.
[03:06] <Vantrax> nice
[03:06] <cprofitt> nice... I had not seen that either
[03:06] <cprofitt> yeah US website still not offering ubuntu on their servers
[03:07] <cprofitt> they offer Microsoft, Solaris, Redhat and Suse
[03:07] <doctormo> For HP it's all a branding play, they never wanted to say that it was Ubuntu, they were even very shy about calling it Linux
[03:08] <cprofitt> the minis are now saying contact your local rep to list alternative OS choices
[03:09] <cprofitt> still not like these guys though -- http://www.system76.com/
[03:09] <Vantrax> doctormo: i think that will change once they are HP certified
[03:10] <cprofitt> I hope so Vantrax
[03:10] <cprofitt> I would love to see main-line vendors just offer it as a drop down choice
[03:11] <doctormo> cprofitt: I'd love to see a level playing field, but it won't happen just yet. It's getting there ever so slowly
[03:11] <cprofitt> doctormo, I agree...
[03:11] <cprofitt> and I think 'local shops' could be the start
[03:12] <cprofitt> if they can differentiate themselves from the 'big boys' and put some stats in to the market that Linux can sell...
[16:07] <bodhi_zazen> is there an easy way to search the fridge for specific meetings ?
[16:09] <bodhi_zazen> The server died
[16:09] <bodhi_zazen> I am not really sure what happened to the test moodle site :(
[16:09] <bodhi_zazen> but I can not connect to it
[16:09] <bodhi_zazen> I will re-build it this weekend
[16:17] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: could look at and search the xml feed: http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/j5q85mmi6ujvjtii5s1n3li5io%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic
[16:18] <pleia2> oh hm, I guess that only shows ones that already passed
[16:18] <pleia2> guess not
[16:23] <bodhi_zazen> thanks anyways pleia2 :)
[16:23] <bodhi_zazen> it is a busy calendar is all
[16:24]  * pleia2 nods
[16:24] <bodhi_zazen> we should start regular meetings for this team
[16:24] <bodhi_zazen> weekly or bi weekly until we are up and running
[16:25] <bodhi_zazen> do we have a meetings wiki page w/ an agenda ?
[16:26] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[16:26] <pleia2> I think Vantrax was going to write meeting minutes and rotate this stuff out from our last meeting, but I don't know if that ever happened
[16:26] <bodhi_zazen> not yet, I will work on it
[16:27] <bodhi_zazen> have we agreed on a meeting schedule yet ?
[16:27] <pleia2> not yet, the doodle poll shows monday and sunday evenings are best
[16:27] <pleia2> so I proposed: 1st Monday, 3rd Sunday
[16:27] <pleia2> which is mostly bi-weekly
[16:39] <bodhi_zazen> where is the doodle pool ?
[16:39] <bodhi_zazen> I saw that mentioned :)
[16:40] <pleia2> http://www.doodle.com/e4qemk8nuf2q5iye
[16:40] <pleia2> (update the timezone for yourself)
[16:43] <bodhi_zazen> thank you, got it
[16:43] <bodhi_zazen> sunday would be hard for me
[16:43] <bodhi_zazen> and in my experience with the beginners team, turn out is poor on weekends
[16:44] <bodhi_zazen> people view them as "free"
[16:44] <bodhi_zazen> but then they travel and get busy :(
[16:44] <pleia2> the good thing about bi-weekly meetings is we don't all actually have to be there :)
[16:44] <pleia2> for every one
[16:45] <pleia2> they are frequent enough that missing sometimes isn't a big deal
[16:45] <bodhi_zazen> We tried it more then once, the second time people were clamoring for a weekend slot and it was not long b4 I was the only one at the meeting
[16:45] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[16:45] <pleia2> since this is what the doodle poll reflects, I think we should respect it
[16:45] <pleia2> if sunday meetings turn out to be failures, we'll adjust :)
[16:46] <bodhi_zazen> we still need licensing on the agenda ?
[16:46] <pleia2> yes
[16:46] <pleia2> but that agenda is old
[16:48] <bodhi_zazen> I updated the agenda :)
[17:07]  * pleia2 looks at old revision and makes page for last meeting