[00:34] <robert_ancell> attente, awake?
[00:34] <attente> robert_ancell: yep! how's it going?
[00:35] <robert_ancell> attente, good. I've been hacking around with g-s 3.22.
[00:35] <robert_ancell> I've made a wip/ubuntu-zesty branch with out changes on top of that. I *think* I've got everything across, but if you could keep an eye out in case something got dropped.
[00:36] <robert_ancell> I figure it's good enough to release to zesty and we can fix if we find anything
[00:36] <attente> robert_ancell: that's awesome, thanks! i can take a look at it tomorrow
[06:07] <hikiko> hello
[06:11] <siva_machina> hello
[06:53] <pitti> Good morning
[06:55] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[06:57] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va ?
[06:58] <didrocks> pitti: ça va bien, et toi ?
[07:13] <pitti> didrocks: je vais bien aussi, merci ! The Bucharest sprint was busy, and I had a "household" swap day yesterday, so now off to attacking the backlog :)
[07:14] <didrocks> pitti: oh, I can imagine the backlog! Good luck with this :)
[07:59] <desrt> happy tuesday!
[08:05] <pitti> hey desrt, wie gehts?
[08:06] <desrt> pretty good :D
[08:06] <desrt> last day of the madness
[08:27] <pitti> desrt: oh, which madness?
[08:31] <desrt> US election day
[08:34] <flexiondotorg> desrt, pitti didrocks Morning
[08:35] <didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
[08:35] <didrocks> morning desrt
[08:35] <desrt> hi didrocks, flexiondotorg
[08:41] <hikiko> hey
[08:41] <hikiko> I have a super weird+annoying problem with u7 sessions in Y
[08:41] <hikiko> and I can't figure out what caused it
[08:41] <hikiko> I start xfce with startx
[08:42] <hikiko> and u7 from lightdm
[08:42] <hikiko> and when I leave the u7 tty for any reason
[08:43] <hikiko> compiz stops and then I see the login screen and if I login a new session starts
[08:43] <hikiko> I attached compiz to gdb
[08:43] <hikiko> and it doesn't crash, it exits normally
[08:43] <hikiko> which means that something else in the system is responsible for that
[08:44] <hikiko> and I only have this problem on Y since I upgraded :/
[08:44] <hikiko> do you have any idea what I should check?
[08:44] <hikiko> my settings are the default
[08:44] <hikiko> gsettings
[08:48] <flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko
[08:48] <hikiko> hi flexiondotorg :)
[08:52] <Sweet5hark> moin
[08:57] <willcooke> morning all
[08:57] <hikiko> hi wi
[08:57] <hikiko> hi willcooke :p
[08:58]  * hikiko goes to debug to see where the exit signal comes from
[08:58] <hikiko> bbiab
[09:03] <Laney> hey hey
[09:03] <willcooke> morning Laney
[09:04] <Laney> hey willcooke
[09:04] <seb128> good morning willcooke Laney hikiko
[09:04] <Laney> how was center parcs?
[09:04] <willcooke> Laney, great thanks!  The kids all loved it
[09:05] <Laney> nice!
[09:06]  * Laney wants to go in a pool with wave machine
[09:06] <seb128> :-)
[09:06] <Laney> hey seb128, hoe gaat het?
[09:06] <seb128> willcooke, did you enjoy it as well?
[09:06] <willcooke> Laney, have you been to the one in Sherwood?
[09:06] <Laney> willcooke: nope
[09:06] <willcooke> seb128, yeah it was good, but I need another holiday :)
[09:07] <willcooke> Laney, it's worth it I think as a grown-ups mid-week break
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, goed, dankje! jou?
[09:07] <Laney> we usually end up going on holidays you need a holiday from
[09:07] <Laney> like staying in youth hostels in december
[09:07] <willcooke> ha
[09:08] <Laney> seb128: ik ben geweldig!
[09:08] <Sweet5hark> whoa, this zigbee worm is scary: spreading over the air (NOT over existing network topography, but directly from device to device), triggering citywide epileptic attacks while all wifi will be jammed. And all that just with one vulnerable lightbulb.
[09:08] <Laney> ik klom gisteravond
[09:09] <seb128> leuk!
[09:09]  * seb128 googles geweldig, that's not something people on daily basis ;p
[09:09]  * Sweet5hark has babelfish hiccups.
[09:10] <Laney> en fietste naar huis in de kou
[09:10] <Laney> hahahaha
[09:10]  * Laney is secretly fluent in Dutch don't you know
[09:10] <Laney> hi Sweet5hark!
[09:11] <Sweet5hark> hrhr
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> Morning Laney, seb128, Sweet5hark, willcooke
[09:11] <willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
[09:11] <seb128> :-)
[09:11] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
[09:12] <flexiondotorg> Mentally fine. Have managed to surface an old rugby injury so my back is not so great :-(
[09:13] <seb128> :-/
[09:15] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:15] <Sweet5hark> flexiondotorg: ouch, does a hot-water bottle or infrared help?
[09:16] <willcooke> howdy davmor2
[09:17] <flexiondotorg> Sweet5hark, Heated pad.
[09:17] <flexiondotorg> And walking.
[09:18]  * Laney nods davmor2
[09:22] <willcooke> Brexit is gettin' real: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37904703
[09:26] <seb128> that's a positive impact
[09:27] <seb128> you end up eating less chocolate/sugar with smaller portions ;-)
[09:27] <willcooke> :)
[09:33] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: "eat less chocolate, we cant afford those 350 bazillion to the NHS"?
[09:34] <willcooke> :DD
[09:34] <xnox> Why choose the lesser evil?
[09:35] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: no you have it all wrong they want you to eat more chocolate and die of obesity then they don't have to treat you at all
[09:36] <flocculant> willcooke: just wait till we can only get english chocolate
[09:36] <davmor2> flocculant: Why English chocolate is good :P
[09:37] <didrocks> (hem)
[09:37] <flocculant> yea - but I don't think any is made by english companies anymore - there'll be none at all :(
[09:37] <Sweet5hark> davmor2: that wont happen, you guys will blackmail the continent to bring chocolate otherwise the continent wont get any english tea!
[09:38] <flocculant> Sweet5hark: ha ha
[09:38] <davmor2> hahaha
[09:46] <hikiko> xserver crashes when I switch TTY on Y
[09:46] <hikiko> receives sigabrt
[09:46] <hikiko> that's the problem
[09:46] <hikiko> xf86VTEnter is the function
[09:46] <hikiko> anyone who has experienced the prob in Y?
[09:47] <hikiko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/30395
[09:47] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 30395 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "X-Server Crashes when switch back from terminal tty" [Medium,Fix released]
[09:48] <hikiko> it seems that we have a bug report for something similar
[09:48] <hikiko> but... 2006 :p
[09:50] <hikiko> https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=desktop-packages@lists.launchpad.net&q=subject:%22\[Desktop\-packages\]+\[Bug+1569351\]+Re\%3A+Xorg+crashed+with+SIGABRT+in%09OsAbort\%28\%29%22&o=newest&f=1
[09:57] <hikiko> question:
[09:58] <hikiko> can I downgrade the xserver?
[09:59] <seb128> sure
[09:59] <seb128> tjaalton might be able to help you with the bug
[09:59] <hikiko> :D
[09:59] <seb128> you could also try the modesettings drivers instead of the intel one
[10:01] <hikiko> the 2nd bug report shows that nvidia have the problem too what are the modesettings drivers?
[10:02] <seb128> they replace the intel ones
[10:03] <seb128> but if you are on nvidia that's probably not a solution
[10:03] <seb128> did you report your bug?
[10:03] <hikiko> I think that since the gdb shows that it's xorg that crashes the downgrade is better
[10:03] <seb128> the one you mentioned is from 2006
[10:03] <hikiko> no because there's a bug report already
[10:03] <hikiko> no no
[10:03] <hikiko> the 2nd link
[10:03] <hikiko>  https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=desktop-packages@lists.launchpad.net&q=subject:%22\[Desktop\-packages\]+\[Bug+1569351\]+Re\%3A+Xorg+crashed+with+SIGABRT+in%09OsAbort\%28\%29%22&o=newest&f=1
[10:04] <hikiko> that's 2016
[10:04] <seb128> you have the same backtrace
[10:04] <seb128> downgrading is a workaround
[10:04] <seb128> better to get the bug investigated and fixed if we can
[10:05] <hikiko> yep I am going to report it
[10:05] <hikiko> seb128, and maybe, well do we have an xorg developer here? should I try to debug xorg?
[10:06] <seb128> tjaalton is looking after xorg, he can maybe hint you about where/how to report the issue and if it's a known one
[10:07] <hikiko> ok I'll ping him and do a bug report in the meantime, thank you seb128 :)
[10:07] <seb128> yw!
[10:15] <pitti> Laney: workers died because apparently vivid images got removed from glance :(
[10:15] <pitti> i. e. that needs an RT (that already happened before)
[10:15] <pitti> or alternatively, some discussion whether we can drop vivid at last
[10:21] <seb128> pitti, why do we need vivid images?
[10:22] <seb128> the distro serie is still supported for touch
[10:22] <seb128> but it doesn't mean we need to do extra work it?
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: well, the train requests tests for landings to it
[10:22] <pitti> and we need to be able to run those
[10:23] <seb128> ah, right
[10:23] <Laney> hey pitti
[10:23] <seb128> fun
[10:25] <Laney> pitti: where do you see that?
[10:25] <pitti> Laney: I just ran the maintenance cron job and restarted them, but previously all workers died like that
[10:26]  * flexiondotorg nips out for a quick walk
[10:26] <Laney> pitti: I don't see a queue, did those requests get dropped?
[10:26] <Laney> failed I suppose
[10:27] <pitti> Laney: no, as I just restarted them, they are currently pending in the "wait 5 mins and then retry" x3 loop
[10:27] <pitti> after that, the worker will die again and punt them back to the queue
[10:27] <pitti> i. e. in about 10 mins
[10:27] <pitti> Laney: I restarted them to process the pending zesty ones
[10:28] <Laney> they don't show in running when this happens?
[10:32] <Laney> pitti: anyways, do you have a link to the previous RT?
[10:33] <pitti> Laney: no, when the worker does sleep(300) there is no logtail, as the actual autopkgtest run has finished
[10:33] <pitti> Laney: that's a potential improvement indeed
[10:33] <Laney> the same worker has the queue item still
[10:33]  * pitti searches email archive for that RT
[10:34] <Laney> that explains it
[10:34] <Laney> I forgot the reason for this wait 5 minutes × 3 thing instead of putting things back in the queue
[10:34] <pitti> Laney: https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=90342
[10:35] <pitti> Laney: it avoids having to add a counter to the AMQP message (you can't modify it really)
[10:35] <pitti> Laney: so you can give the cloud 5 minutes to take a breath (and maybe let another test finish), then you have a better chance of having enough quota
[10:36] <pitti> but if it fails repeatedly, let the worker die so the others have more breathing room
[10:36] <pitti> or a test doesn't get retried infinitely often in a tight loop
[10:38] <Laney> pitti: ok, I can see that it keeps tests out of the rotation for a bit
[10:39] <Laney> pitti: so why did the old adt image get deleted?
[10:39] <FJKong_> Laney: hello
[10:39] <Laney> hi
[10:39] <pitti> Laney: good question, I don't know -- maybe someone thinking "oh, vivid images, these can go"
[10:41] <FJKong_> one question: source code number is 3.5,old package number is 1:3.5-1, if new upstram source code version number is 3.5.1 package number is 1:3.5.1-0 is this ok?
[10:42] <FJKong_> 1:3.5.1-0 is newer than 1:3.5-1?
[10:42] <Laney> FJKong_: If in Ubuntu: 1:3.5.1-0ubuntu1, if Debian: 1:3.5.1-1
[10:42] <FJKong_> thanks
[10:42] <Laney> FJKong_: Do `dpkg --compare-versions v1 gt v2 && echo yes'
[10:43] <Laney> have a look at "man dpkg" and search for "compare-versions" to find out more about that
[10:43] <FJKong_> ok
[10:43] <FJKong_> cool
[10:47] <Laney> pitti: ok, filed
[10:48] <pitti> Laney: cheers
[10:48] <Laney> pitti: so what drives the daily image updating?
[10:48] <Laney> I see build-adt-image-all-clouds but not how that is invoked
[10:49] <pitti> RELEASE=${RELEASE:-$(distro-info --devel)}
[10:49] <pitti> Laney: correct, I only do this for the devel series; I use the daily official images for stables
[10:50] <pitti> Laney: that is slower for every test (as the setup script has much more stuff to do), but simpler as we don't need to generate custom adt images for all releases
[10:50] <Laney> pitti: ah right
[10:51] <pitti> Laney: i. e. create-nova-image-new-release is (a) an optimization over daily cloud images, and (b) needed for opening a new release while we don't have official cloud images for it yet
[10:51] <pitti> Laney: for (a) that essentially just pre-applies setup-testbed to the image, so that for the actual test it's a fast no-op
[10:52] <pitti> Laney: and for (b) you call it manually on the previous stable image (like the latest yakkety image for z), and it'll then dist-upgrade to zesty
[10:52] <Laney> I should practice that at some point
[10:53] <seb128> Laney, pitti, unsure if you saw bug #1633162 but it's another issue due to the systemd user session
[10:53] <ubot5`> bug 1633162 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Files application throws an error 'Oops! Something went wrong' when clicked on 'Recents'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633162
[10:53] <pitti> Laney: you can practice by taking a trusty daily and creating a wily image (and then delete it again)
[10:54] <pitti> Laney: wily is still marked as supported for reasons that are beyond me, so it's on archive.u.c.
[10:55] <pitti> seb128: I saw it fly by, yes; slowly working through the backlog from last week, I'll look at bug 1637758 next
[10:55] <ubot5`> bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637758
[10:56] <Laney> pitti: ack, I'll try that
[10:57] <Laney> pitti: ok, I see the regex stuff for selecting an image now so I understand how this works I think
[10:58] <Laney> seb128: yeah
[11:04] <Laney> pitti: I subscribed you to a bug regarding the lightdm change too, if you saw that - could be the same root cause (multiple running u-s-ds)
[11:04] <Laney> ah yes I think it is - that one talks about xsettings
[11:05] <pitti> Laney: yeah, I forgot to stop the session
[11:05]  * Laney has duped it now
[11:05] <pitti>            State: closing
[11:05] <pitti>             Unit: session-c1.scope
[11:05] <pitti>                   ├─2720 /usr/lib/at-spi2-core/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
[11:05] <pitti>                   ├─2822 nm-applet
[11:06] <pitti>                   └─2824 /usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon
[11:06] <pitti> is what I get on my system
[11:06] <Laney> same (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1639658/comments/3)
[11:06] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1639658 Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:06] <pitti> but this is z only, so just "urgent", not "panic"
[11:06] <Laney> ya
[11:06] <Laney> we'd have noticed on Y already, the menus thing is pretty obvious :)
[11:37] <andyrock> morning
[11:38] <seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
[11:38] <andyrock> terrible...
[11:39] <seb128> :-(
[11:39]  * andyrock is reviewing Trevinho's branches
[11:39] <andyrock> ahaha
[11:39] <seb128> lol
[11:39] <Trevinho> bastard :-D
[11:39] <seb128> did he rewrote half of unity over night again?
[11:39] <Trevinho> hi seb128
[11:39] <Trevinho> seb128: it's ooold stuff
[11:39] <seb128> hey Trevinho! how are you?
[11:39] <Trevinho> seb128: ok, good... I've spent yesterday evening in snappying some stuff
[11:40] <Trevinho> seb128: remmina, actually... although I had to use this workaround to maket it properly load from an absolute path.... https://github.com/3v1n0/Remmina-snap/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L72 (+ the run script)
[11:41] <seb128> Trevinho, that's quite hackish
[11:41] <Trevinho> that come up since last saturday I was at the Italian LOCO team meeting... And so there was some interest in snappying...
[11:42] <seb128> couldn't you just use /snap/<name>/current?
[11:42] <Trevinho> seb128: indeeeeed, but no
[11:42] <seb128> great
[11:42] <seb128> why?
[11:42] <Trevinho> seb128: if I'd use that prefix, then cmake would try to install in /snap/<name>/current//snap/<name>/current
[11:42] <Trevinho> and... upstream code is not wrong in that sense...
[11:42] <seb128> right
[11:43] <Trevinho> so unless we don't have proper mount bindings, I don't see other solution than this :-(
[11:43] <seb128> then you can use an organize rule to move /snap/<name>/current/usr to /usr
[11:43] <Trevinho> being /tmp the only absolute path we've
[11:43] <seb128> which gives you back things under /snap/<name>/current
[11:43] <Trevinho> oh
[11:44] <Trevinho> seb128: do you have an exapmle?
[11:44] <seb128> Trevinho, https://github.com/8none1/gedit310/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L19
[11:44] <seb128> that's autotools not cmake
[11:44] <seb128> but the principle is the same
[11:44] <Trevinho> nice... but yeah
[11:45] <seb128> be careful you should do that in a part that has the build only
[11:45] <seb128> if you have stage packages in the same part you might end moving their content as well
[11:45] <seb128> which you don't want to do
[11:45] <Trevinho> I see
[11:47] <Trevinho> seb128: I've got this problem with appindicator though https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1639988
[11:47] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1639988 in Snappy "Snaps using libappindicator and unity7 plug can't show app-indicators" [Undecided,New]
[11:48] <Trevinho> see the test snap in the bottom, you can compile it in seconds
[11:48] <seb128> weird
[11:48] <seb128> indicators should work
[11:49] <seb128> I'm about to go for lunch but can try after that
[11:50] <Trevinho> seb128: sure, well... It used to, but I get permission problems
[14:17] <xnox> seb128, shall we have a UOS session about "3rd debate on building Ubuntu desktop i386 isos"?
[14:17] <tedg> mpt: Is it "a URL" or "an URL" ?
[14:18] <seb128> xnox, do you think a discussion in a session is likely to useful to get to a conclusion?
[14:19] <xnox> seb128, i really really do hope so. Last time we got to (a) i386 is canonical supported architecture (b) Xorg stack on i386 is continued to be supported
[14:19] <xnox> but we didn't get to timings
[14:19] <xnox> thus I'm hoping to achieve consensus that yes we may stop building ubuntu-zesty-desktop-i386.iso
[14:19] <seb128> k, register one then I guess
[14:19]  * ogra_ grins about tedg ... an american asking a kiwi about english grammar
[14:20]  * seb128 is writing to you from an i386 ubuntu install
[14:20] <xnox> tedg, english a & an are based on how things are pronounced, not written. Thus it's a URL
[14:20] <xnox> and e.g. an honest answer (because h is silent)
[14:21] <xnox> http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/a-versus-an -> hehe "a unicorn" yet "an umbrella"
[14:21] <tedg> xnox: Yeah, I found that reference, but I wasn't sure on the case of "U" in "URL" because it is closer to "you" than "un"
[14:22]  * xnox believes that you is a consonant sound
[14:22]  * tedg isn't sure of anything anymore
[14:22] <xnox> http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/writing-for-business/which-is-correct-a-url-or-an-url/
[14:23] <xnox> Although the U at the first of URL is a vowel, the abbreviation is pronounced “you-are-ell.” Because the letter Y is a consonant in this case, use a rather than an.
[14:23] <tedg> But I was figuring mpt had done a fair amount of work with Mozilla, he'd know for sure :-)
[14:24] <xnox> tedg, somehow i suspect that mpt would say use "Location" =) hence the Ctrl+L is the shortcut for "type the URL in"
[14:24] <tedg> Heh, that's cheating! ;-)
[14:25] <tedg> xnox: Oh, also while you're here... I have on my TODO to follow up with you and make sure you talked to pitti about backporting the graphical-session target to xenial.
[14:25] <tedg> Is that all good?
[14:25] <tedg> (or at least on the TODO list)
[14:27] <xnox> tedg, well that's backwards. Before we backport things (a) are all migrations done in zesty (b) do we need any remaining bobs in yakkety (c) what do we need in xenial (i'm guess all of it?!)
[14:28] <xnox> tedg, cause e.g. we will not be switching xenial folks on classic to systemd graphical session.
[14:28] <tedg> xnox: We need it to get into ubuntu-core so that we can use it to based the unity8-snap on.
[14:28] <tedg> xnox: So it's not a matter of migrating xenial folks as much as laying a foundation.
[14:29] <xnox> right but you said you need system systemd and system pam to start graphical target for you..... yet mix in user session units from the unity8 snap; which snapd does not support at the moment.
[14:30] <tedg> Sure, working on that too. But trying to make everything land.
[14:31] <tedg> We need snapd to do user session units, I have a meeting on that tomorrow :-)
[14:31] <tedg> I don't think that getting the graphical-session target into xenial needs to block on that though.
[14:34] <xnox> tedg, right.
[14:34] <xnox> tedg, note, it's not just user .service files; but user .target; user .socket; etc.
[14:35] <tedg> xnox: Man, now you want ALL the units! ;-)
[14:35] <pitti> tedg: oh, you literally just want the two *.target unit files, not the entire set of fixes and ports to *use* them?
[14:35] <pitti> tedg: I can cram that into the next SRU, sure (but not sure how much that actually helps without the supporting infra)
[14:35] <tedg> pitti: I'm not entirely certain there. We want to be able to make a snap that can be part of the graphic-session target.
[14:36] <xnox> pitti, well i think the polling method for starting graphical-target needs to go in too.
[14:36] <pitti> like systemctl start --wait?
[14:36] <tedg> pitti: I imagine we'll need more than just the target files, but I don't understand how much more.
[14:36] <xnox> pitti, whatever you coded and merged upstream, yeah.
[14:36] <pitti> that's a loot more
[14:36] <pitti> it's also dbus-user-session, two handfuls of fixes for it, etc.
[14:37] <xnox> pitti, and eventually we will have these sessions in xenial: unity7 (upstart), unity8 (upstart), unity8-snap (systemd)
[14:37] <xnox> pitti, and eventually we will have these sessions in yakkety: unity7 (upstart), unity8 (systemd), unity8-snap (systemd)
[14:37] <pitti> and given that we still find subtle regression, we can't possibly switch existing xenial systems to that
[14:37] <tedg> I thought dbus-user-session was already in xenial?
[14:37] <xnox> nope.
[14:37] <pitti> the package yes, but not functional
[14:38] <xnox> tedg, your best bet at the moment is to test Unity8 snaps on yakkety classic system with snapd
[14:38] <xnox> because all the user session support is in there. and your base is the right one.
[14:39] <tedg> Sure, I guess that's fine for the moment. But I'm concerned that we don't have a path to get it so that a U8 snap could run on core 16.
[14:39] <xnox> tedg, or are you after an all-snaps system? my understanding that personal all-snaps doesn't exist yet, and should be started with work on core 16?!
[14:39] <tedg> Yes, all snaps doesn't exist yet, but it is the goal and is expected to work on core 16.
[14:39] <xnox> tedg, when you say core 16, do you mean xenial-classic with snapd? yakkety-classic with snapd? all-snaps core 16?
[14:39] <tedg> All snaps core 16.
[14:40] <tedg> Ubuntu Core Snap series 16.
[14:40] <xnox> tedg, if we can shove the dbus-user-session from zesty into your unity8 snap... we should be fine =)
[14:41] <xnox> to be honest
[14:42] <xnox> i somehow expect to use systemd from unity8 snap for the user session init; talking to system systemd from ubuntu core 16 as pid 1
[14:42] <xnox> pitti, what do you think ^
[14:42] <tedg> I don't think we can do that? I mean, we don't have any control over that part of the session AFAIK. That'd require quite a few holes.
[14:43] <xnox> horum. maybe jdstrand can help =)
[14:43] <pitti> xnox: not sure what you mean -- user systemd doesn't really talk to the system systemd
[14:43] <xnox> jdstrand, is it fine, on an all snaps system, for system PAM and system systemd; spawn pam_logind using session logind/systemd from the unity8 snap?
[14:44] <xnox> pitti, true. (i'm getting confused with like how upstart user session worked)
[14:44] <pitti> xnox: wasn't that the same? I don't think the session and system inits talked to each other directly; at most via these bridges
[14:46] <xnox> right.
[14:46] <tedg> I have a hard time imagining systemd confined in a snap. It needs access all over for cgroups and such.
[14:47] <xnox> somehow imho graphical.target; dbus-user-session; and the whole lot should be all inside the unity8 snap. Even if it means a user dbus; inside the unity8 snap; specific to unity8 and not connected to a user session dbus vissible via ssh into the all snaps system.
[14:47] <xnox> tedg, user systemd has no access to cgroups and such.
[14:47] <mpt> tedg, I use “a” because I pronounce it “Yoo Arr Ell”, which starts with a consonant sound
[14:48] <xnox> Arrrrrr
[14:48] <tedg> mpt: Makes sense to me! Thanks!
[14:48] <seb128> thanks tedg xnox mpt ;-)
[14:48] <tedg> xnox: If that's the case then every desktop has to replicate that and there's no way for snapd to do user services.
[14:49] <seb128> tedg, sorry for the noise!
[14:49] <tedg> xnox: User services would only be defined for inside the snap instead of inside the session.
[14:50] <xnox> tedg, hypothetically who do you expect to own the session; the display; and which interface to launch if two snaps are installed: unity8 and xubuntu
[14:50] <xnox> and both provide.... interface user-graphical.target?
[14:51] <xnox> or should snapd only connect one of them?
[14:51] <xnox> or if we have multiple snaps.... only connect those that you want/need? e.g. connect unity8 snap and median-scanner snap with user units; but not the xubuntu snap
[14:51] <tedg> xnox: No, it would connect each of them to lightdm:sessions
[14:52] <tedg> xnox: Then lightdm would deal with handling the multiple and starting the right one.
[14:52]  * xnox cries but lightdm has it's own systemd user session too.....
[14:52] <xnox> ..
[14:53] <xnox> i think for now we want xenial's systemd to have graphical.target unit or whatever it was and that's it. And deal with dbus-user-session et.al. later.
[14:53] <pitti> well, user systemd plus session dbus isn't going to work
[14:53] <xnox> pitti, can you please just sru in the two units into xenial and that's it, for now?
[14:54] <pitti> sure
[14:54] <xnox> pitti, right, but i have no idea how all-snaps systems currently handle multi-user, and if we can switch ubuntu core 16 to dbus-user-session; or if we can use dbus-user-session only via lightdm:session interface; or via a gadget snap or some such.
[14:55] <xnox> i should play with an all snap system in a vm and poke things experimentally.
[15:30] <willcooke> ding ding ding!
[15:30] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  8 15:30:51 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:31] <willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong (out), flexiondotorg, happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:31] <flexiondotorg> o/
[15:31] <hikiko> hi
[15:31] <seb128> hey
[15:31] <andyrock> hi
[15:31] <Laney> meow
[15:31] <qengho> Aiee!
[15:31] <desrt> *mwah
[15:32] <andyrock> willcooke: I still have to prepare the bullet list
[15:32] <andyrock> can you start with someone else? :D
[15:32] <willcooke> sure!
[15:32] <willcooke> muhahaha
[15:32] <willcooke> #topic attente
[15:33] <willcooke> Let's come back to attente too
[15:33] <attente> sorry
[15:33] <attente> i'm ready
[15:33] <willcooke> ah, cool,
[15:33] <attente> debugging some issues with libertine menus and fonts
[15:33] <attente> finished fixing fcitx-qimpanel build to allow local installation
[15:33] <attente> looked into the broken gtk menus and dpi scale issues a bit, gtk isn't reading the xsettings properly, but not sure how to fix that
[15:33] <attente> re-wrote the jhbuild plugin to use bubblewrap instead of lxc, needs tests+docs
[15:34] <attente> still need a review of content-hub-glib before landing the copy-paste stuff in gtk
[15:34] <attente> (eof)
[15:34] <willcooke> thanks attente
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic desrt
[15:34] <desrt> i figured out the security for the proxy, and implementation is underway.  will continue on that this week.
[15:34] <willcooke> woo!
[15:34] <desrt> might be interesting to see if we can use this as an alternative to the xsettings stuff to solve the issues attente is seeing
[15:34] <desrt> that's all, really
[15:34] <willcooke> thanks desrt
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic dgadomski
[15:34] <dgadomski> hey
[15:34] <dgadomski> - worked on bug #1589401, no results just yet
[15:34] <dgadomski> - returning to bug #1598183
[15:34] <dgadomski> - working on bug #1598183
[15:34] <ubot5`> bug 1589401 in NetworkManager "cannot view wifi networks after re-enabling wifi" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1589401
[15:34] <ubot5`> bug 1598183 in gvfs "Operation not permitted while writing to symlinked fuse locations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598183
[15:34] <dgadomski> eof
[15:35] <willcooke> thanks dgadomski, feel free to reach out to happyaron on #1589401 - he might be able to assit
[15:35] <willcooke> assist
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic FJKong_
[15:35] <willcooke> libproxy-0.4.13.
[15:35] <willcooke>   * New upstream release
[15:35] <willcooke>   * Remove 3 Patches
[15:35] <willcooke> klog-<IP_ADDRESS>-1
[15:35] <willcooke> make new upstream release
[15:35] <willcooke> upload to :
[15:35] <willcooke> https://mentors.debian.net/package/klog
[15:35] <willcooke> fix bug#831236
[15:35] <willcooke> * xnec2c
[15:35] <willcooke>   * New upstream release
[15:35] <willcooke>     - add icon image to fix gui-app-without-icon error
[15:36] <willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> Time appropriate greetings
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and updated their Trello board.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Reviewed the ISV Snap advocacy process and documentation.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Several calls learning the process for ISV Snap advocacy.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Learning the snap advocacy process came round sooner than I expected and has taken longer than I thought to learn. I'm up to speed now.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Reworking merge proposals for aptdaemon and update-manager (LP: #1623856) - PPA coming later for testing.
[15:36] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623856 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Scrolled Windows in update-manager are too small to read" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Fix for deja-dup scrolled windows (LP: #1623835) - MP and PPA coming later.
[15:36] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623835 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623835
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> eof
[15:36] <willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg, great stuff
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:37] <willcooke> 1. dkms: lots of bugs, upstreamed apport related updates
[15:37] <willcooke>     merge is pending because how to handle secure boot patch is not yet clear
[15:37] <willcooke> 2. NM bugs at Debian, trying to merge this week
[15:37] <willcooke> 3. sponsored fqterm uploads, synced to Ubuntu
[15:37] <willcooke> 4. batch translation review for gnome zh_CN
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic hikiko
[15:37] <hikiko> hi
[15:37] <hikiko> * 1st investigation/document for chromium on mir
[15:37] <hikiko> * compiz:
[15:37] <hikiko>   - fixed some compile errors on tests
[15:37] <hikiko>   - fixing the branches that have been reviewed by Trevinho (moving win, expo gap)
[15:37] <hikiko> * unity:
[15:37] <hikiko>   - working  on the decorations code - changes that will be useful for different tasks
[15:37] <hikiko>   - had almost fixed the switcher (alt+`) before my desktop crashed, tomorrow :p
[15:37] <hikiko> * other:
[15:37] <hikiko>   - debug an issue I had on the desktop and thought it was related to either lightdm or u7 gsettings, found out that its an xserver bug latest Y release
[15:37] <hikiko> eof
[15:37] <willcooke> thanks hikiko
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:37] <Laney> • Upload livecd-rootfs to stop stripping .pyc on live images, announce to -release
[15:38] <Laney> • Some task finding, advice, review & sponsoring for FJK
[15:38] <Laney> • Turned autosync back on, babysat autopkgtest for that (managing capacity and handling emergent issues)
[15:38] <Laney> • Got some informal training in autopkgtest tasks from p_itti
[15:38] <Laney> • Poked a bit at u-s-d's xsettings manager not working in Z (1639658)
[15:38] <Laney> • Worked much more on asgen charm, implemented external storage, getting ready to import existing data so that the new version can be deployed
[15:38] <Laney> 😚
[15:38] <willcooke> :) thanks Laney
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic qengho
[15:38] <qengho> * Cr 54 still in progress. All 32-bit arches broken. We don't cross-compile. Ups
[15:38] <qengho> tream does. :(
[15:38] <qengho> That's pretty much it. All my time.
[15:39] <qengho> EOF
[15:39] <willcooke> thanks qengho, good luck
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:39] <seb128> • debugged versions' script erroring out after the url updates done by j_bicha
[15:39] <seb128> • helped flexidotong to fix the update-manager details view having an incorrect height with the new gtk
[15:39] <seb128> • triaged recent nautilus bugs
[15:39] <seb128> • NEW queue reviews
[15:39] <seb128> • discussed/verified g-s-snap SRU
[15:39] <seb128> • reviewed/cleaned up some items from the sponsoring queue, not quite a full shift though

[15:39] <willcooke> thanks seb128!
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
[15:41] <seb128> zZZzz ;-)
[15:41] <willcooke> he was here earlier, let's come back
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic TheMuso
[15:41] <willcooke> * Uploaded an SRU for bug 1574324 for xenial and yakkety. Testing seems favourable so far, will get fresh installs set up in coming days to test myself.
[15:41] <willcooke> * Still trying to reliably reproduce bluetooth profile switching issues on xenial at least. No luck so far.
[15:41] <willcooke> * Started going through the patches we carry for Pulseaudio, some of which are to work around issues that may no longer exist. Will start to test these in the coming week.
[15:41] <willcooke> * More package merges for zesty.
[15:41] <ubot5`> bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574324
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Backported cups-browsed-hang-on-shutdown fixes to the Xenial package for an SRU (bug 1638986).
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Further work on IPP Everywhere support.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - cups: Tested IPP Everywhere PPD generator of CUPS with non-IPP-Everywhere printers getting broken PPDs. Reported bug upstream.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Snappy: Created VM running Ubuntu Core 16.
[15:42] <ubot5`> bug 1638986 in cups-filters (Ubuntu Xenial) "cups/cups-browsed causing delay in shutdown (16.04)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638986
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> Some picture of The Hague: https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8150277390/albums/the-hague
[15:42] <willcooke> :D thanks tkamppeter
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Some reviews of compiz and unity branches
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Landed new unity and compiz in zeisty
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed icon theme update on lockscreen (causing indicators to have a wrong icon)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Attended the italian LoCO meeting (ubuntu-it meeting with snapping session JAM, and mir porting)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Snapped bucklespring
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Snapped Remmina (including freerdp)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Proposed some changes to desktop-launchers (and reported various snap-world bugs)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Some fixes in unity8 indicators
[15:43] <Trevinho> EOF
[15:43] <willcooke> thanks Trevinho
[15:43] <willcooke> did you push your snapcraft yamls to the playpen?
[15:43] <willcooke> if not, please do!
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:44] <willcooke> - snapd-qt patch complete - awaiting review
[15:44] <willcooke> - gnome-software 3.22 released to zesty - patches updated
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:44] <andyrock> #1 Code Reviews
[15:44] <andyrock> #2 Updated branch lp:~azzar1/unity/properly-handle-copy-dialog
[15:44] <andyrock> #3 Fixed double lock issue lp:~azzar1/unity/fix-double-lock
[15:44] <andyrock> #4 Some debugging for lp:1635625 and workaround proposed (but Marco found another one)
[15:44] <andyrock> eof
[15:44] <willcooke> thanks andyrock!
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
[15:44] <willcooke> is he back?
[15:44] <seb128> lp 1635625
[15:45] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1635625 in unity (Ubuntu) "Some indicator icons are missing after unlocking the screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635625
[15:45]  * Sweet5hark is back. confused by wintertime.
[15:45] <Sweet5hark> - building snaps on lp
[15:45] <Sweet5hark> - bumped to 5.2.3 snap and deb
[15:45] <flexiondotorg> ^ is brilliant
[15:45] <Sweet5hark> - started armhf and i386 builds (untested so far)
[15:46] <Sweet5hark> - netzpolitischer Kongress in berlin (Gruene)
[15:46] <Sweet5hark> - backporting to LTS
[15:46] <Sweet5hark> - thats it IIRC
[15:46] <Sweet5hark> EOF
[15:46] <willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
[15:46] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:46] <willcooke> Anyone got news?
[15:47] <flexiondotorg> Not news, but a question.
[15:47] <flexiondotorg> I've been working on LP: #1631208
[15:47] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1631208 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Tabs in Firefox dialogs are not rendered (for add-on options & Certificate Viewer)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631208
[15:47] <flexiondotorg> Which required a refactoring of notebooks in general. And that changes the general appearance of notebooks/tabs.
[15:48] <flexiondotorg> In order to support Firefox new visual elements are introduced.
[15:48] <flexiondotorg> Should I continue with FF support now as is, or should we consider patching FF to introduce bespoke selectors.
[15:49] <flexiondotorg> Right now it seems FF > 49 is reliant on frames for drawing boarders.
[15:49] <flexiondotorg> Which requires work around in some traditional GTK applications.
[15:49] <attente> isn't there a way to theme individual apps by name?
[15:49] <Laney> no
[15:49] <Laney> there's an upstream bug for firefox though
[15:50] <Laney> I think it'd be a good idea to explain the problem there and ask if they would accept doing that
[15:50] <attente> i could've sworn there were app-specific selectors in the theming code...
[15:50] <Laney> Only if the application has done something
[15:50] <willcooke> bear in mind that Firefox will become a snap Real Soon Now - so any changes to Ffox will need to be upstreamed rather than patched by us.
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> attente, There are app specific selectors for gedit and gnome-terminal.
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> But for frame in general, there are not.
[15:51] <attente> oh i see...
[15:51] <Laney> You can sometimes pick widgets by name
[15:51] <flexiondotorg> OK, I think I;ll split the FF notebook change out.
[15:51] <flexiondotorg> ANd just submit an MP for the gedit and gnome-terminal stuff.
[15:51] <Laney> I don't think that's a particularly great idea because they are usually implementation details and might break at any time
[15:52] <Laney> Firefox might be willing to guarantee a CSS class or something
[15:52] <flexiondotorg> To be clear, remove the FF changes to a separate branch for now.
[15:52] <flexiondotorg> And get the other issues closed out.
[15:53] <flexiondotorg> I'll then progress FF issues upstream.
[15:53] <flexiondotorg> Laney, yep. Ideally their own class(es).
[15:53] <flexiondotorg> Thanks guys.
[15:53] <willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg
[15:53] <Laney> It's kind of crap to have to have app-specific code
[15:54] <Laney> In an ideal world they would just directly look the same
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> Agreed.
[15:54] <willcooke> any more for anymore? 5... 4...
[15:54] <Laney> I guess they don't directly use GTK widgets though - so it might be the best we can get.
[15:54] <Laney> Ta
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> Laney, Correct, they do not.
[15:55] <seb128> flexiondotorg, what are those snappy upstream advocacy guidelines? something we should all read?
[15:55] <willcooke> oki, let's wrap - we can continue afterwards if needed
[15:55] <flexiondotorg> seb128, Eventually, yes.
[15:55] <willcooke> oops, sorry seb128
[15:55] <flexiondotorg> But they'll get refined through use.
[15:55] <seb128> are we being transformed in marketing team sidekicks? ;-)
[15:56] <seb128> willcooke, no worry, can be an after meeting discussing, it's just the first time I read that we have advocacy material and are supposed to follow it
[15:56] <flexiondotorg> Everyone eventually ;-)
[15:56] <willcooke> oki, closing meeting - please carry on as needed
[15:56] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[15:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  8 15:56:25 2016 UTC.
[15:56] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-11-08-15.30.moin.txt
[15:56] <flexiondotorg> seb128, It is not marketing exactly.
[15:56] <flexiondotorg> Developer to developer discussions.
[15:57] <seb128> k
[15:57] <flexiondotorg> When it become a sales exercise there is a hand off :-)
[15:57] <seb128> well I didn't know we had a specific strategy to learn
[15:59] <seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks
[15:59] <flexiondotorg> np
[16:28] <willcooke> tkamppeter, great pic of the canal.  Was that on the way to team dinner?
[16:44] <attente> did the synaptics driver break for anyone?
[16:44] <flexiondotorg> attente, What release?
[16:44] <attente> flexiondotorg: z
[16:44] <attente> i just did an update
[16:45] <flexiondotorg> I'll tell you tomorrow, re-install a test machine that has a touchpad.
[17:45] <flexiondotorg> Catch you all tomorrow desktopers
[17:45] <seb128> flexiondotorg, have a nice evening!
[17:45] <willcooke> night flexiondotorg
[18:01] <Laney> night from me too
[18:16] <seb128> night Laney
[18:17] <seb128> calling it a day as well
[18:17] <seb128> good night desktopers
[18:45] <willcooke> night all
[22:05] <attente> flexiondotorg: hey, just wanted to let you know don't worry about the touchpad testing. seems all i needed was to make a custom libinput config in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> OK.


[11:14] <nibbo> like this guy http://serverfault.com/questions/267016/how-can-i-use-upstart-with-vendor-supplied-startup-programs I have two commands for starting/stopping my service. Is it possible to use upstart for this? I guess it bypasses alot of the nice things with upstart though
[16:15] <bencc> I'm using "limit nofile 20000 20000" at the top of my upstart script
[16:15] <bencc> how can I test if this is being set?
[17:04] <teolicy> Hi. I have an Ubuntu server (10.10) which booted without a runlevel, I'm rather baffled as to why. 'who -r' outputs nothing, and /etc/rcX.d scripts didn't run so I'm missing non-upstart services.
[17:04] <teolicy> Anyone here knows what could be the cause? Where in upstart / modern Ubuntu (10.10) can I see the default runlevel?
[18:53] <ion> nibbo: Replied at serverfault
[20:00] <bencc> I'm using limit nofile 20000 20000 for an erlang server
[20:01] <bencc> but the "beam" process of the erlang server still has 1024 nofile limit
[20:03] <ion> Try
[20:03] <ion> limit nofile 20000 20000
[20:03] <ion> task
[20:03] <ion> script
[20:03] <ion>   ulimit -a >/tmp/ulimit.out 2>&1
[20:03] <ion> end script
[20:03] <nibbo> ion: thanks for rocking my socks of!
[20:03] <nibbo> off*
[20:04] <nibbo> Now I am just having the problem of wanting to execute the command in a specific directory. Using script blocks, but a simple "cd" before does not seem to work. Any ideas?
[20:04] <bencc> ion: I don't understand the syntax of the task script part
[20:05] <bencc> let me dpaste and see if I got it right
[20:05] <ion> nibbo: init(5), /chdir
[20:05] <ion> bencc: Just paste all of that to ulimit-test.conf and run ‘start ulimit-test’
[20:06] <bencc> ok
[20:06] <nibbo> ion: Please elaborate. I do not quiet get what you mean.
[20:07] <ion> Let me try it here…
[20:08] <ion> Here it added to /tmp/ulimit.out: nofiles              20000
[20:08] <ion> So it seems to work at least here.
[20:08] <ion> Could beam apply its own limit?
[20:09] <bencc> ion: I've increased the limits to all users so I need to remove it first
[20:10] <ion> % ulimit -n 2000
[20:10] <ion> % erl
[20:10] <ion> 1> os:cmd ("ulimit -n").
[20:10] <ion> "2000\n"
[20:10] <ion> Apparently not.
[20:10] <ion> Do you get ‘nofiles 20000’ in /tmp/ulimit.out when you start ulimit-test?
[20:10] <bencc> ion: this is what I got: http://dpaste.com/544785/
[20:11] <bencc> after 'sudo start ulimit-test'
[20:11] <ion> Alright, Upstart seems to work correctly then.
[20:11] <ion> And beam doesn’t seem to apply its own limit either. I’m out of ideas.
[20:12] <ion> Except for manual investigation.
[20:12] <bencc> maybe beam apply its own limits when it is started by the script in a release
[20:12] <bencc> what do you mean by manual investigation?
[20:13] <bencc> it defines number of ports with -env ERL_MAX_PORTS 4096 but I don't see settings for nofiles
[20:13] <ion> The usual debugging. Running the service from the command line and seeing if it gets a lower limit. Running it with strace -f -o /tmp/service.strace from Upstart and seeing what sets the limit. Adding ulimit -n calls to various places in the code to see at what point the limit gets set.
[20:14] <bencc> I'll do that
[20:14] <bencc> the start script has RUNNER_USER=myapp
[20:14] <bencc> maybe that's changes stuff? because upstart run with root, right?
[20:15] <ion> I take it the script doesn’t start a new PAM session? Because that would most likely affect ulimit.
[20:15] <bencc> it has:
[20:15] <bencc> # Make sure this script is running as the appropriate user
[20:15] <bencc> if [ ! -z "$RUNNER_USER" ] && [ `whoami` != "$RUNNER_USER" ]; then
[20:15] <bencc>     exec sudo -u $RUNNER_USER -i $0 $@
[20:15] <bencc> fi
[20:16] <ion> sudo indeed starts a new PAM session.
[20:16] <bencc> good than that's the problem
[20:16] <bencc> can I do it without sudo?
[20:16] <bencc> because upstart run as root
[20:17] <bencc> I'm also using sudo in my upstart script which might also be unnecessary
[20:17] <SpamapS> upstart scripts run as root
[20:17] <ion> You could try adding a user-specific entry to /etc/security/limits.conf
[20:18] <bencc> that works
[20:18] <ion> which is used by PAM
[20:18] <SpamapS> so su should be sufficient
[20:18] <bencc> doing this in upstart make it much more portable
[20:18] <bencc> that's what make upstart so cool
[20:18] <bencc> SpamapS: su doesn't start a new PAM?
[20:19] <bencc> instead of 'exec sudo -u myapp -i myapp start' I need 'exec su -u myapp -i myapp start' ?
[20:19] <SpamapS> it does with -l
[20:19] <bencc> SpamapS so what is the correct way to run a script in upstart as another user?
[20:20] <SpamapS> su is the recommended way, not sure there is a "correct" way
[20:20] <SpamapS> Its been suggested that a 'user' stanza would make sense.
[20:20] <bencc> does 'exec su -u myapp -i myapp start' starts a new PAM?
[20:21]  * SpamapS would prefer it be 'run as [user x] [group y]' to keep the upstart stanzas as imperative as possible
[20:21] <SpamapS> bencc: I don't know that it actually runs login.. you should test it
[20:21] <SpamapS> bencc: certainly if it doesn't, and thats what you need.. then maybe sudo is more appropriate.
[20:22] <bencc> not sure I understand
[20:22] <ion> Both su and sudo start a PAM session.
[20:22] <bencc> if "limit nofile 20000 20000" works but a command that run a script as another user starts a new PAM than what's the point with the limit nofile setting
[20:24] <ion> daemontools seems to come with /usr/bin/setuidgid which might be useful here.
[20:24] <ion> The daemontools package
[20:26] <bencc> thanks
[20:27] <bencc> maybe editing limits.conf is the correct way to do it
[20:27] <bencc> I just don't know


[00:01] <zequence> ttoine: I don't find that the latest -generic is installed, if -generic is not installed at all
[00:01] <zequence> ttoine: Also, the GRUB menu usually does show for me, for about 10 sec
[00:01] <len-dt> zequence, I don't think he said that
[00:02] <len-dt> I think he is saying that because people do install generic, this would be a better way of doing grub
[00:02] <zequence> But, I don't know why GRUB shows. Perhaps for me because I have multiple OS's
[00:03] <len-dt> I have had it off and on too. Not sure why.
[00:03] <zequence> len-dt: The discussion started because of the addition ttoine made to this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-misc
[00:03] <len-dt> Ya, I saw the email.
[00:04] <zequence> Perhaps ttoine misunderstood what I meant.
[00:04] <len-dt> I was going by what he said three or so lines up
[00:04] <len-dt> I also feel the grub menu is less than great for US
[00:05] <zequence> It would be handy with a boot order tool. I think there are some
[00:05] <len-dt> The default item is just "Ubuntu"
[00:05] <len-dt> I think it should always have the word lowlatency if it is.
[00:06] <zequence> len-dt: I agree. That should be changed. Did you add a workitem for it?
[00:06] <len-dt> I don't remember. I have been kind of out of it this cycle.
[00:06] <len-dt> I have not added much
[00:13] <zequence> I added both about changing the menu back to default, as well as making it show for 10 sec by default
[00:14] <len-dt> Yup, was just looking.  ;)
[00:20] <zequence> Could this be the file that creates the custom Ubuntu stuff? /etc/grub.d/41_custom
[00:20] <zequence> I can't understand something about that script
[00:23] <zequence> Like, how "config_directory" works
[00:29] <len-dt> While we are at it, it would be nice if the initrd works at leas as nice as the one on the live ISO.
[00:38] <len-dt> zequence, to change from hidden timeout to visible is quite easy. See file /etc/default/grub
[00:45] <len-dt> zequence, GRUB_DEFAULT can be changed from 0 to saved. Then GRUB_SAVEDEFAULT can be set to true.
[00:46] <len-dt> I just don't know if /etc/default/grub gets changed with SW updates.
[00:46] <ttoine> I use the save option too, very usefull. Altough, it will not load the latest Lowlatency if there is an update
[00:48] <len-dt> There are some other options in there as well. Not sure how they work though.
[00:48] <ttoine> len-dt, if grub is updated, and the file is not the original, there is a list of choice like (keep modifications / put the original again / etc.)
[00:48] <ttoine> zequence, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
[00:49] <len-dt> I think it is also possible to add a file to /etc/grub.d that points at a different file.
[00:50] <ttoine> by default, grub2 is setup so the menu is not available if only ubuntu is detected. But it will show if several Linux distros are detected, or if other system like Windows are detected. The way to show the menu if there is only Ubuntu is to press the shift key at startup, if my memory is good
[00:51] <len-dt> Yes, that sounds right.
[00:51] <ttoine> len-dt, or perhaps to put different rules in a file in /etc/grub.d
[00:51] <len-dt> ttoine, if we add a file there will be no upgrade issues but if we change one there may be.
[00:52] <ttoine> would it be difficult to setup grub so there would be a choice like "latest generic" and "latest lowlatency", and remember the default choice
[00:52] <ttoine> ?
[00:52] <ttoine> the better is to add a file in /etc/grub.d, for sure.
[00:53] <len-dt> I don't think any of us are grub gurus here
[00:53] <persia> I think that it makes sense for someone from here, someone from the server team, and someone from the kernel team to set up a chat with cjwatson to find the right solution.
[00:53] <persia> So the user can pick between sensible options for their kernel, based on whichever they have installed.
[00:55] <ttoine> have a look at /etc/grub.d/README , perhaps we should jsut create an entry at the top. And then, change the default grub setup to "save latest choice"
[00:56] <ttoine> len-dt, of course we are not gurus
[00:56]  * len-dt has a sore brain just thinking about it.
[00:57] <len-dt> I am going to have to choose 1 or two things to do this cycle and ignore all else I think.
[00:57] <ttoine> hum, perhaps persia is right. But would it be possible to chat with kernel team and server team, without being a guru ?
[00:57] <ttoine> someone like me, for example ?
[00:57] <len-dt> :)
[00:58] <len-dt> I think knowing what you want. Say make a mockup listing of what you want our menu to look like.
[00:59] <ttoine> the same, but instead having only default ubuntu, having a new line with lowlatency ubuntu
[00:59] <ttoine> and the possibility to save the choice
[00:59] <len-dt> Ubuntu  lowlatency
[00:59] <len-dt> ubuntu
[00:59] <len-dt> then extra like they have now (expert I think)
[01:00] <len-dt> I think for US lowlatency should be first.
[01:00] <len-dt> I don't know if the word generic needs to be there.
[01:00] <ttoine> yes. but as only audio users may be interested by this choice, and not at all startup if they use a laptop on battery, it would be good to have the save option
[01:01] <ttoine> no ?
[01:01] <len-dt> I was assuming save would be set. I do not know if the order changes with the saev setting or the second one may get high light
[01:02] <ttoine> len-dt, and what about -rt kernel ? perhaps it would be good to ask grub to show a menu entry for every kernel family ?
[01:02] <len-dt> Sort of anything other than generic should have a label then
[01:02] <len-dt> And the one shown should be the latest.
[01:03] <len-dt> (or the last used? don't know if that is possible)
[01:03] <ttoine> len-dt, the order don't change for me, whatever is my choice. with the current grub (12.04 and 12.10 are very similar) there is just a line Ubuntu, and a line "older ubuntu" is highlighted as default saved choice
[01:04] <len-dt> That works.
[01:04] <ttoine> if I click on older ubuntu, I have the complete list all kernel
[01:04] <ttoine> and the latest I used is highlighted
[01:04] <len-dt> I think older has been changed to "expert"
[01:05] <ttoine> not in vanilla ubuntu
[01:05] <ttoine> wow... 2am here, I must go to sleep. sorry to have to end the chat
[01:05] <len-dt> In our case that is probably not the best wording.
[01:05] <persia> ttoine: You're perfectly qualified to talk to other teams: the key is (as len-dt says) to be sure of what you want: the server team probably has similar requirements (and some of them have reason to use low-latency also).
[01:05] <ttoine> I don't have the time now
[01:05] <len-dt> have a great night
[01:06] <len-dt> I have to get a meal ready for my kids.
[01:06] <persia> The tricky bit is that the postinst for *any* kernel wants to tell grub it provided a new kernel, which makes it tricky to "save last", because the most recently booted kernel may not actually be the one the user should boot into next time.
[01:06] <persia> ttoine: Just responding to "like me?": no pressure implied.
[01:06] <ttoine> but len-dt or persia, can you just write something on the blueprints about that (whiteboard) so we can chat about that and confirm it, before I start chatting with kernel team ?
[01:06]  * persia doesn't have a clear idea of the requirements
[01:06] <len-dt> I will add an item
[01:07] <persia> len-dt: Thanks
[01:07] <ttoine> thanks
[01:07] <len-dt> persia, we are talking about requirements just now just that we should discuss it
[01:07] <ttoine> oh, and "good morning/afternoon/evening"
[01:07] <len-dt> *are not
[01:07] <persia> Oh, heh
[01:10] <len-dt> ScottL, I sent email to the list you may like to read.
[01:10] <ScottL> i shall read it :)
[01:11] <ScottL> i'm trying the multi-head stuff in vanilla now
[01:11] <len-dt> The email tells what I found.
[01:11] <ScottL> oh!
[01:13] <ScottL> ack, i was tyring to get this to work quickly before reading the email and i failed horribly
[01:13] <ScottL> reading email now
[01:14] <ScottL> i defintely agree with defining use cases
[01:14] <len-dt> ScottL, it pretty much just works... so long as you like the way it works
[01:14]  * ScottL cannot stress that enough across the board :P
[01:15] <ScottL> len-dt: good description!
[01:15] <len-dt> ScottL, I didn't confirm that they are using different workspaces for each display.
[01:16] <len-dt> I may test that when the battery is charged.
[01:16] <ScottL> huh, i could not make the monitors side by side, i had to put one over the other
[01:17] <ScottL> this is probably a function of my video card (which is ATI gpu built into the board)
[01:17] <ScottL> it maxes out at 1600x1600 and two widescreen monitors way exceed 1600 ;)
[01:17] <len-dt> I am using a netbook with intel chipset
[01:19] <len-dt> That says something about three displays. though that would probably mean more than one GPU
[01:19] <len-dt> Anyway gotta run and get supper ready.
[01:19] <ScottL> or SLI video cards, or the triple-matrix thingie
[01:19] <ScottL> right, len-dt , i gotta attend to the kids too
[06:50] <zequence> Nice of ttoine to get busy with the GRUB thing
[07:05] <ttoine> hi
[14:17] <len-dt> zequence, just a comment, I don't know if we will find a better menu editor.
[14:19] <len-dt> There seems to be a move away from main menus, certainly in unity, but also in Gnome3... but at a much slower pace.
[14:20] <len-dt> I think we need to have an understanding of what failed for the user (and why they did not file a bug)
[14:21] <len-dt> it seemed to me they where worried about not being able to set up their menu in the order they wanted
[14:23] <len-dt> that is perhaps more than can be expected from a small utility like that. It also does not have the ability to place custom app starters in a submenu of the users choosing.
[14:25] <len-dt> I suspect we would end up having to create our own application to overcome these problems.
[14:58] <scott-work> len-dt: are you speaking about ala carte ?
[18:21] <zequence> len-dt: As of now, I have no idea about how to edit menus for XFCE. But, if someone wants to be able to, I'll want to see about if and how it is possible, and see if we are making it possible, etc
[18:22] <zequence> And that's pretty much as much as I have thought about that yet
[18:27] <ttoine> zequence, alacarte don't work with xfce ?
[19:11] <zequence> zequence: I haven't tried yet. I think it does, but maybe not as expected
[19:13] <zequence> If someone wants to find out, that person could take over that workitem
[19:13] <zequence> I don't need to know myself
[19:14] <zequence> I will find out only if I do that workitem
[19:14] <zequence> This is the good thing about workitems
[19:14] <zequence> We all can see what needs to be done
[19:14] <zequence> But, only one person needs to do each workitem
[19:14] <ttoine> zequence, ok, I will test Alacarte and tell you
[19:15] <zequence> So, we save time, by not having to talk about everything. We just put up workitems, and do them, until we need help with something
[19:16] <zequence> This is also what makes us able to work independently
[19:16] <zequence> hehe, I seem to have addressed myself there..
[19:18] <zequence> ttoine: It's great seeing a new name among the workitems
[19:19] <ttoine> zequence, I know that I can do it alone, report it, etc.
[19:19] <ttoine> for most of item, I am not skilled enough in development
[19:20] <ttoine> and a lot of things are still moving on workitems at the moment. It will be easier for everybody when all will be fixed
[19:20] <ttoine> not fixed. stable
[19:20] <zequence> ttoine: I try to think more in the direction of interests. People have different interests, so they will choose different blueprints and workitems
[19:21] <zequence> ..and there is room for all kinds of blueprints and workitems, for all skill levels
[19:23] <scott-work> i have found ala carte to work fairly well, even with xubuntu i believe
[19:39] <ttoine> scott-work, me too. but we can check again.
[19:48] <scott-work> ttoine: i'm very glad you are helping ubuntu studio again
[19:49] <micahg> if anyone has time, the ISOs are broke, I probably won't be able to have a look until some time next week
[20:03] <ttoine> scott-work, I am very glad too
[20:26] <zequence> scott-work: So, if Blender is breaking the ISO, should we remove it from the seeds until it's fixed?
[20:27] <zequence> As it seemed, python 3.3 is causing mayhem
[20:27] <zequence> And it's not imported from Debian
[20:27] <zequence> While Blender is
[20:27] <scott-work> i'm not sure blender is breaking it actually, i looked at blender in launchpad and it seemed to be building correctly, i'll dig more into the build fail
[21:49] <len-dt> scott-work, alacart works fine. It does what it does with no problems. it is just that some users expect more :)
[21:50] <scott-work> what else would they want?
[21:50] <len-dt> zequence, ^^^
[21:50]  * scott-work really doesn't understand how else others might expect it to perform
[21:51] <len-dt> well the short comings are that it does not seem to allow formatting a menu or submenu.
[21:51] <len-dt> and if the user adds an item it will only show up in "other" and can not be moved from there.
[21:54] <len-dt> When alacart makes an app starter for the user, it ends up in ~/.local/share/applications and alacart puts a set of lines in there that assigns anything found in that directory to other.
[21:55] <len-dt> The purpose of alacart seems to be to be able to move an item from one submenu to another, or to create a custom starter.
[21:56] <len-dt> The custom starters do not have a category tag either.
[22:02] <len-dt> scott-work, My personal attitude is that the user should leave the main menu alone unless they know enough to hand edit the menu overlay in their home directory. The better place would really be in the panel to do custom stuff.
[22:03] <scott-work> ah, that explains it, thank you len-dt
[22:06] <len-dt> scott-work, in some ways I would prefer the user to have to install something like alacart on their own so that if they mess up their menu.... we don't have to help them trouble shoot it :)
[22:07] <scott-work> hehe, that is a good point
[22:24] <jta> scott-work: what version did you build?  Don't build the SVN daily...build the offical release version...
[22:24] <jta> 2.64 is the current official release
[22:24] <jta> they just added py3.3 and are working out the cmake settings
[22:25] <jta> only grab svn if you are a dev or want bleeding edge features...like there is the new bevel/chamfer code being added as we speak
[22:26] <jta> actually 2.64a
[22:27] <jta> scott-work: http://www.blender.org/download/source-code/
[22:28] <jta> scott-work: blender devs are at a bcon level where several things have been merged so they are fixing what that has broken...
[22:33] <scott-work> jta: 2.64a is available from a ppa which is what i installed
[22:34] <scott-work> i hope to play around with it this weekend, kinda go through the work flow i already developed with kdenlive
[22:35] <jta> 2.64a shouldn't require py3.3...iirc
[22:35] <jta> the new 2.65 will use py3.3
[22:36] <jta> scott-work: just remember in the VSE where the mouse cursor is effects a lot of things...like when you add a clip where on the timeline it shows up, and when you use keyboard shortcuts, if the mouse is over the wrong area of the editor, you have different shortcuts
[22:37] <jta> i should say mouse pointer...the "cursor" is what blender calls the current frame marker bar
[22:38] <scott-work> right, it has changed quite a bit from 2.49 ;)
[22:40] <jta> check out Olson's NLA vid tutorial, it works in conjunction with the VSE  http://getblended.org/2012/07/absolute-basics-of-the-nla-editor/
[22:41] <jta> blender cookie has the best getting started series of videos, I don't recall if there is a VSE section...
[22:42] <jta> I have some material I am preparing for a class but it's not ready for general consumption yet...
[22:42] <jta> scott-work: http://cgcookie.com/blender/get-started-with-blender/  it's a tad dated but it's good none the less
[22:44] <jta> scott-work: if you search for video tutorials...some are labeled VSE, some don't mention the acronym, they just say sequence editor...
[22:44] <jta> so search on sequence editor also
[22:44] <jta> these tips should save you quite a bit of time...and remember the location of the mouse pointer makes a difference on the hotkeys and your right click to select things usually...
[22:46] <jta> scott-work: http://blendervse.wordpress.com/ is also a good place for info on the VSE...
[22:46] <jta> ok, enuf spam, lol...
[22:47] <scott-work> jta: no, no. that is great, i will defintely look over these pages this weekend
[22:48] <jta> #blender for general help questions...some of the regulars know the VSE also...and I usually hang out in there...
[22:48] <scott-work> one thing i really haven't even touched is the 3d modeling aspect of blender, actually :P
[22:48] <jta> well with the compositing and tracking features, that's way fun to overlay 3d onto live action video....you will for sure get bitten by the bug, lol...
[22:48] <jta> ok, going afk for a bit...
[22:59] <scott-work> long day for me and i'm going home now


[12:59] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +264 cases (now 1.6 million), +2 deaths (now 27955), +18614 tests (now 10.7 million) since 22 hours ago


[02:13] <mup> Bug #1522225 opened: Migration 0181 can fail on upgrade from 1.8 to 1.9 if disks across nodes have duplicate serial numbers <MAAS:In Progress by blake-rouse> <MAAS 1.9:In Progress by blake-rouse> <MAAS trunk:In Progress by blake-rouse> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522225>
[07:52] <mup> Bug #1522294 opened: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[10:18] <CruX__> Hi everyone, I'm currently fooling around with maas and maas seems to have trouble generating the zone configuration file for bind9. The zone is visible but the discovered/commisioned/deployed machines do not end up there, so they're not resolvable via dns. I'm running maas 1.8.3 (stable) on a clean ubuntu 15.10, this issue occurs both with vms (bridged) and physical machines (5nics)
[10:19] <CruX__> The log tells me, that it is updating the mentioned zone file when a new node is discovered, but the zone file stays "empty", ie there are no entries for the nodes in there
[14:02] <roaksoax> cmagina: only deployed nodes will end up with a DNS zone
[14:02] <roaksoax> errr
[14:02] <roaksoax> cmagina: sorry
[14:02] <roaksoax> CruX__:
[14:02] <roaksoax> CruX__: ^^
[14:03] <roaksoax> CruX__: nodes that are being commissioned will end up with DNS based on IP
[14:06] <cmagina> roaksoax: np
[14:57] <mup> Bug #1522294 changed: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[15:00] <mup> Bug #1522294 opened: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[15:09] <mup> Bug #1522294 changed: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[15:45] <CruX__> roaksoax: okay, I guess I'll try again then. Thanks
[17:42] <mup> Bug #1522294 opened: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 1.9:Triaged> <MAAS trunk:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[17:51] <mup> Bug #1522294 changed: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 1.9:Triaged> <MAAS trunk:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[18:00] <mup> Bug #1522294 opened: MAAS dhcp fails to parse leases written to /var/lib/maas/dhcpd.leases <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 1.9:Triaged> <MAAS trunk:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522294>
[18:00] <mup> Bug #1522512 opened: Nodes in Ready state transitioning to Commissioning which are already powered on should be rebooted automatically <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522512>