[00:00] <FernandoMiguel> nite
[08:45] <apw> RAOF, hey i have just had another of those X lockups, triggered by touching the edge of teh screen to pull out the launcher
[08:46] <apw> any suggested triage, before i start restarting bits?
[08:47] <RAOF> apw: Still there?
[08:47] <apw> RAOF, yep
[08:47] <RAOF> apw: Has X crashed, or frozen?
[08:47] <RAOF> If it's frozen, could you ssh in, attach gdb, and nab a backtrace?
[08:47] <apw> xserver still there, its in a futex wait
[08:48] <apw> RAOF, no idea if its X or compiz, or another
[08:48] <RAOF> Oh, really.
[08:48] <RAOF> Is compiz in D state by any chance?
[08:48] <apw> compiz is Sl
[08:50] <RAOF> Hm.
[08:50] <apw> RAOF, X appears to be in an intel_drv.so thingy, called out of _CallCallbacks
[08:50] <RAOF> Ah.  Could you pastebin a backtrace please?
[08:52] <apw> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/869540/
[08:53]  * RAOF is confused.
[08:53] <RAOF> Could you do the same, with debugging symbols installed?
[08:53] <apw> RAOF, this is a relativly recent behaviour, and i am pretty sure bjf has also hinted at similar behaviour -- cirtainly this is the third of this behaviour i've seen
[08:53] <apw> RAOF, where doth i get those
[08:54] <RAOF> apt-get install xserver-xorg-core-dbg xserver-xorg-video-intel-dbg xserver-xorg-input-evdev-dbgsym
[08:54] <RAOF> And let's throw in libdrm2-dbg libdrm-intel1-dbg
[08:54] <RAOF> That looks an *awful* lot like a deadlock caused by a signal handler, doesn't it.
[08:55] <apw> E: Unable to locate package xserver-xorg-input-evdev-dbgsym
[08:55] <RAOF> Oh, *ARSE*
[08:55] <RAOF> Ignore evdev, then.
[08:56]  * RAOF has a sneaking suspicion that he knows what the problem is.
[08:56] <apw> something i can type to get confirmation for you
[08:57] <RAOF> No, I don't think so.
[08:57] <RAOF> But a backtrace with function names would help me to check.
[08:58] <apw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/869546/
[08:58] <apw> RAOF, ^
[09:00] <RAOF> Had you closed a window shortly before this happened?
[09:00] <apw> RAOF, i had just touched the left edge about to reel out the launcher
[09:00] <apw> the odd shadow thing is still there i think
[09:01] <jcristau> sending events from the sigio handler sounds wrong.
[09:01] <RAOF> evdev... with a mouse, right?
[09:01] <RAOF> jcristau: Yeah, I just noticed thatc.
[09:01] <apw> RAOF, indeed mouse in motion
[09:01] <jcristau> no wonder it deadlocks
[09:01] <RAOF> jcristau: Hence my *ARSE* :/.
[09:01] <RAOF> The wonder is that it deadlocks so infrequently.
[09:02] <apw> are you allowed to do _anything_ in a signal handler?
[09:02] <jcristau> apw: not much.
[09:02] <jcristau> you're supposed to read the input event, queue it, and get the hell out.
[09:02] <apw> i am supprised reading input is allowed, let alone any of the other milarki
[09:02] <RAOF> You can write()
[09:03] <apw> so you can send yourself a hint
[09:03] <jcristau> signal(7) has a list of functions you're allowed to call
[09:03] <RAOF> *much* of writing events qualifies; probably something mallocs in a certain case.
[09:04] <RAOF> I was just incautious and wasn't thinking that ConstrainCursorHarder was called from a signal context.
[09:04] <jcristau> well in X sending events is not allowed from the sighandler, because it does more than write()
[09:04] <RAOF> Yeah.
[09:04]  * apw would be supprised if malloc was safe most of the time
[09:04] <jcristau> apw: it's not
[09:05] <jcristau> malloc takes a lock
[09:05] <jcristau> so if malloc gets interrupted by the signal and you call it again from the handler, it goes boom
[09:05] <RAOF> Indeed.
[09:06] <apw> RAOF, its a good job Intel graphics arn't common ... sigh
[09:06] <RAOF> In this case, probably not malloc; looks like drmIoctl takes out a lock.
[09:07] <apw> RAOF, yeah you'd hope wouldn't you
[09:07] <RAOF> Anyway, time to rework this sucker.
[09:07] <apw> RAOF, need anything mroe from this hang, or shall i kill it off
[09:07] <RAOF> Kill it with extreme prejudice.
[09:08] <jcristau> RAOF: is that bug upstream too?
[09:08] <RAOF> jcristau: No; it's in my code (a prototype of which is languishing on the list)
[09:08] <jcristau> ok
[09:09] <RAOF> Would have been nice for someone to point out that CursorConstrainCursor is called in a signal context, though :)
[09:09] <RAOF> The input code does a scary amount of work in that context.
[09:10] <jcristau> having annotations in the code about it could be helpful..
[09:10] <jcristau> but i guess it'd easily get stale
[09:10] <RAOF> Maybe
[09:11] <jcristau> maybe sparse could handle that
[09:11] <RAOF> Well, easily get stale, but the flow of the sigio handler shouldn't change *that* much between releases.
[09:11] <RAOF> How well does sparse handle calls chained through function pointers?
[09:11] <jcristau> no idea
[09:12] <jcristau> i should try and play with it some time
[09:12] <RAOF> It would seem to be something amenable to static analysis, but as I say, there's a surprising amount of code there.  Fun fact!  It calls into the nvidia blob now.
[09:12] <jcristau> read input calls into nvidia??
[09:12] <RAOF> Yes.
[09:13] <apw> RAOF, i hope you don't mean the intel driver :)
[09:13] <jcristau> for hw cursor, or something else?
[09:13] <RAOF> Because read input wraps into ConstrainCursorHarder, and nvidia now has a ConstrainCursorHarder hook.
[09:13] <jcristau> ah.
[09:13] <RAOF> To handle the same thing as xrandr's ConstrainCursorHarder hook.
[09:14] <RAOF> One might think that the xrandr/ subdirectory would be free of the sigio context; you'd be mistaken.
[09:14] <apw> RAOF, ok just in case i took a gcore of it
[09:15] <RAOF> apw: Well, I now know of at least one critical bug in my code.
[09:16] <apw> RAOF, heh well something came out of my hang :)
[09:16] <RAOF> And with that, dinner.
[16:05] <ossguy> is this the right place to discuss regressions in X between Ubuntu 12.04 Alpha and Beta?
[16:06] <ossguy> I did a dist-upgrade this morning (last one was a week ago, before Beta was released) and now it will only start in low graphics mode
[16:09] <tjaalton> which driver do you use?
[16:09] <ossguy> sorry, it's radeon
[16:10] <tjaalton> so no fglrx?
[16:10] <tjaalton> installed
[16:10] <ossguy> correct
[16:10] <ossguy> never installed
[16:10] <tjaalton> pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[16:10] <ossguy> yep, just a sec
[16:13] <tjaalton> (pastebinit $foo)
[16:13] <ossguy> sorry, I'm otherwise distracted currently :)
[16:14] <ossguy> it's at http://ossguy.com/xorg/20120305/1010/Xorg.0.log now
[16:14] <ossguy> and http://ossguy.com/xorg/20120305/1010/Xorg.0.log.old
[16:14] <ossguy> (running 2 different kernel versions; I got the same issue with all of them (including -18, which I tried before these))
[16:15] <tjaalton> dualscreen?
[16:16] <ossguy> yes
[16:16] <ossguy> identical model screens
[16:17] <tjaalton> so which version was the last working one?
[16:18] <ossguy> neither of the 2 I posted are from working X sessions
[16:18] <ossguy> I will try to find you a log from a working session
[16:18] <tjaalton> just try an older kernel abi version
[16:18] <tjaalton> if you have those installed
[16:18] <ossguy> how much older do you mean?
[16:19] <tjaalton> one that works
[16:19] <ossguy> I have 3.2.0-12, -15, -17, and -18
[16:19] <tjaalton> so try -12
[16:19] <ossguy> I've tried the last 3
[16:19] <ossguy> ok
[16:19] <ossguy> I will once I'm in a state where I can reboot the system I'm on
[16:23] <tjaalton> actually, the logfile says it's using 19x12
[16:23] <ossguy> log from working sessions is here: http://ossguy.com/xorg/20120216/1628/Xorg.1.log
[16:23] <ossguy> s/sessions/session/
[16:23] <tjaalton> [    73.483] (II) RADEON(0): Output DisplayPort-0 using initial mode 1920x1200
[16:23] <tjaalton> [    73.483] (II) RADEON(0): Output HDMI-0 using initial mode 1920x1200
[16:24] <ossguy> yes, I noticed the screen was the usual res
[16:24] <ossguy> but I got the box saying it was running in low graphics mode
[16:24] <ossguy> and there didn't seem to be an easy way to get around it
[16:24] <tjaalton> huh?
[16:26] <ossguy> after I did the dist-upgrade this morning, I rebooted the system and X started up with the "you're running in low graphics mode" message
[16:26] <ossguy> but as far as I could tell, it was running at 19x12 (and the logs confirm this)
[16:26] <tjaalton> ahah, so xdiagnose fired up for some reason
[16:27] <ossguy> right (I guess :) )
[16:27] <tjaalton> well you didn't say it looked normal
[16:27] <ossguy> also, the screens were in mirroring mode
[16:27] <ossguy> not side-by-side, as I had configured
[16:28] <tjaalton> it's a per-user setting
[16:28] <ossguy> ah, right
[16:28] <ossguy> ok, so we didn't even get there
[16:28] <ossguy> any ideas why xdiagnose might have decided to run?
[16:28] <tjaalton> no..
[16:28] <ossguy> or how to get it to not run?
[16:28] <tjaalton> it runs on every boot?
[16:28] <ossguy> yes
[16:28] <tjaalton> bryceh: ^ :)
[16:29] <ossguy> (or maybe a different venue where it's more appropriate to ask this question?)
[16:29] <tjaalton> no this is fine
[16:29] <ossguy> ok
[16:30] <tjaalton> basically it would mean that lightdm had failed to start
[16:30] <tjaalton> check /var/log/lightdm/*
[16:31] <tjaalton> oh, dist-upgrade.. check that you have lightdm _installed_
[16:31] <ossguy> lightdm produced logfiles the last time I started Ubuntu
[16:31] <ossguy> so I presume it is installed
[16:31] <tjaalton> ok, check what's in them
[16:32] <ossguy> [+0.67s] DEBUG: Failed to load session file /usr/share/xgreeters/.desktop: No such file or directory:
[16:32] <ossguy> [+0.67s] DEBUG: Failed to start greeter
[16:32] <ossguy> perhaps that is an issue?
[16:32] <ossguy> I will post the full log; just a sec
[16:33] <tjaalton> is unity-greeter installed?
[16:33] <tjaalton> apt-cache policy unity-greeter
[16:33] <ossguy> sorry, I'm not booted into Ubuntu right now (I'm in a different distro on the same machine)
[16:34] <ossguy> I can check some apt-related files, though
[16:34] <tjaalton> check the upgrade log
[16:34] <tjaalton> dpkg.log
[16:34] <ossguy> ok
[16:35] <tjaalton> and you can always chroot into the partition :)
[16:35] <ossguy> lightdm log here: http://ossguy.com/xorg/20120305/1010/lightdm.log
[16:35] <ossguy> true; I'd rather not do anything funny there, though :)
[16:36] <tjaalton> do you have /usr/share/xgreeters/unity-greeter.desktop
[16:36] <ossguy> no, /usr/share/xgreeters does not exist
[16:36] <tjaalton> so no /usr/sbin/unity-greeter either?
[16:37] <tjaalton> grep unity-greeter /var/log/dpkg.log ?
[16:37] <ossguy> it suggests unity-greeter was removed
[16:37] <tjaalton> there you go
[16:38] <tjaalton> never blindly run dist-upgrade
[16:38] <ossguy> I presume something was unexpected here
[16:38] <ossguy> ah, ok, good lesson I suppose :)
[16:38] <ossguy> what's the best/easiest way to get back to working?
[16:38] <tjaalton> but first upgrade and then see if dist-upgrade would remove stuff
[16:39] <tjaalton> ubuntu-desktop got removed as well I guess, so install it
[16:39] <ossguy> yep, looks like it was removed, too
[16:39] <ossguy> so what was the way I should have done this upgrade?
[16:39] <ossguy> I mean eventually I want to run "dist-upgrade"
[16:40] <tjaalton> only when it's not doing silly things
[16:40] <ossguy> so how should I determine when is the right time to do so?
[16:40] <ossguy> ok
[16:40] <ossguy> so in alpha/beta I should expect silly things
[16:40] <tjaalton> a good indicator is when it's removing *-desktop..
[16:40] <tjaalton> yes
[16:40] <ossguy> right :P
[16:41] <tjaalton> transitions etc
[16:43] <ossguy> tjaalton: thanks very much for all your help
[16:43] <ossguy> and for bearing with a dumb user ;)
[16:45] <tjaalton> yw
[22:45] <Sarvatt> hmm, haven't seen this input related crash come up before, just hit it http://paste.ubuntu.com/870647/
[22:52] <bryceh> RAOF, thoughts on bug 931967?
[22:53] <bryceh> I'm assuming it's just that when lightdm hands off to X, the framebuffer isn't zero'd out.  something lightdm should be doing?
[22:54] <RAOF> I started looking at that, then got pulled into more pressing issues.
[22:54] <RAOF> What I had was: lightdm draws to the root window.
[22:55] <RAOF> Or, rather *unity-greeter* draws to the root window.
[22:55] <RAOF> This should mean that whatever unity-greeter leaves on the display stays there until something else draws; that something else should be compiz.
[22:56] <RAOF> However, on *some* drivers that isn't happening; it doesn't happen on intel, it does on radeon and nouveau.
[22:57] <RAOF> Which suggests it might be an EXA issue, or something.
[22:57] <bryceh> fglrx and -nvidia too aiui
[22:57] <bryceh> yep, just repro'd on -nvidia
[23:04] <RAOF> I wonder if RetainPermanent is horribly unimplemented.
[23:05] <RAOF> What I was going to try is to replace unity-greeter's cairo render-to-root-pixmap code with a straight X11 CopyArea from a pixmap to the root window.
[23:07] <bryceh> hmm, wonder if unity-greeter has some better debugging output...
[23:53] <RAOF> bryceh: Hey, you know those xlib-xcb asserts we've been seeing?  Think http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/29102 might have something to do with it?


[03:06] <nhandler> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue226
[03:10] <pleia2> thanks nhandler \o/
[03:13] <nhandler> pleia2: Sorry for getting it out late. I'm almost done with a script that will make it trivial for anyone to publish UWN. It will essentially come down to: run the script, copy/paste a bunch of files that are generated to the correct location
[03:13] <pleia2> awesome
[03:13] <nhandler> Right now, I think the hardest part of the publishing process is updating the wiki afterwards
[03:14] <pleia2> yeah, it's a bit tedious
[03:17] <nhandler> My publishing script is now in lp:uwn. Essentially, you run it 'perl ./publish-uwn.pl 226' and it spits out a bunch of files in issues/226 (it also runs the fridge publishing script, so if you want to test it, you might want to comment out the last line)
[03:22] <pleia2> nice
[03:44] <nhandler> This coming issue will be the last issue before I head off to college (I'll still be around to help and publish after that, but probably not every week). I'd love to get at least one more person to try their hands at publishing.
[03:44] <nhandler> holstein: You expressed an interest earlier. Still interested?
[05:10] <holstein> nhandler: i am
[10:08]  * nlsthzn waves
[17:02] <nhandler> holstein: I'd suggest you start reading through the release checklist on the wiki and looking at the tools in lp:uwn


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[13:03] <JoseeAntonioR> hey guys, we're now live at ubuntuonair.com!
[13:08] <JoseeAntonioR> don't forget the stream is live, at www.ubuntuonair.com
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[00:22]  * Seeker` ->sleep
[00:39]  * genii sips
[00:55] <TheFunkbomb> anyone around?
[00:57] <TheFunkbomb> hello?
[00:59] <genii> TheFunkbomb: The op who is responsible for your ban in #ubuntu-offtopic is currently unavailable. Please try again later
[00:59] <TheFunkbomb> he told me to ask someone else
[01:01] <genii> TheFunkbomb: As I understand you had some issue with an op and you wer referred to the !appeals factoid
[01:01] <genii> !appeals
[01:01] <TheFunkbomb> no, he told me to ask someone else
[01:02] <TheFunkbomb> genii, would you be interested in listening?
[01:02] <genii> TheFunkbomb: I'm reading logs concerning it. Be patient .
[01:03] <TheFunkbomb> okay
[01:06] <genii> TheFunkbomb: Ikonia referred you to Pici, who I belive is not present right now. Please return here later to try again.
[01:06] <TheFunkbomb> actually, ikonia referred me to anyone who will read it.
 TheFunkbomb: I suggest you wait for someone else to deal with your issue,
[01:08] <TheFunkbomb> so genii, what do you think?
[01:09] <genii> TheFunkbomb: No op will usually unban another op's without extenuating circumstances of some sort. This does not appear to exist in this case. Your next step of course would be to follow the appeals procedure, etc
[01:10] <TheFunkbomb> I believe ikonia gave permission...  <ikonia> however if the others disagree and want to remove the ban , I have zero issue with that
[01:10] <popey> _if_ others disagree
[01:11] <TheFunkbomb> right... and I'm asking for others to review what happened.
[01:12] <genii> I have, and feel your ban should stand until the original op feels like removing it. Others may have other views. So far it does not seem that anyone feels inclined to remove it.
[01:13] <TheFunkbomb> may I ask why?
[01:14] <genii> TheFunkbomb: Why I have this view, or why it seems others are not inclined also to lift the ban?
[01:15] <TheFunkbomb> why you have this view.  I wouldn't expect you to speak for others.
[01:16] <TheFunkbomb> I honestly think a simple misunderstanding has gone too far.
[01:17] <genii> TheFunkbomb: Your original ban was valid. If there was some op impropriety it should have been taken up by you in the manner suggested (eg: !appeals). Rather than insisting on beleaguering it in this channel, which you were subsequently not helping your situation by being argumentative, etc.
[01:17] <TheFunkbomb> I don't see it as argumentative.  I become nasty when I argue.  I was defending myself.
[01:20] <popey> That isnt compliant with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.
[01:21] <genii> TheFunkbomb: Regardless, you were given direction to remedy what you felt was improper op behaviour. Rather than take this course, you decided to idle in the operator channel and try to convince others to lift your ban, etc etc. To an extent in fact where you had to be removed from the channel.
[01:21] <popey> It's not the kind of behaviour we expect from members of the community.
[01:21] <TheFunkbomb> genii, I wasn't idling.  It wasn't like I was afk.  He told me to ask another Op.  I was waiting for another Op
[01:21] <TheFunkbomb> then he didn't like me waiting for another op
[01:23] <TheFunkbomb> don't tell someone to find another Op and then get pissy when he tries
[01:23] <popey> he specifically said come back later
[01:23] <popey> not hang around and nag other ops
[01:23] <genii> TheFunkbomb: You were told to return "in an hour" or so, etc. But did not leave the channel and then return at the suggested time, but rather idled.
[01:24] <TheFunkbomb> some people have lives.
[01:24] <TheFunkbomb> You do know that, right?\
[01:25] <popey> thinly veiled insults dont help your cause
[01:25] <genii> TheFunkbomb: That is not in dispute. The operators here live in many timezones, and are not always available at a time convenient to you.
[01:25] <TheFunkbomb> popey, where is the insult?
[01:26] <popey> implying we have no lives
[01:26] <TheFunkbomb> genii, I realize that but Pici said he got held up with work.  I figured he'd be back in a short while.  I don't have the time to pop in here every hour in the hopes of someone being around.
[01:26] <TheFunkbomb> popey, where did I imply that?
[01:27] <popey> look up a 7-8 lines
[01:27] <TheFunkbomb> Right, I don't see where I implied you don't have lives.
[01:27] <popey> saying you do implies we dont
[01:28] <TheFunkbomb> No it doesn't
[01:31] <TheFunkbomb> So neither of you are interested in looking at this incident?
[01:31] <popey> genii just said he did look at it
[01:31] <genii> TheFunkbomb: Since none of the parties more directly involved, such as ikonia, Pici, or Myrtti seem to be responding right now, and no one currently available has shown any inclination to unban, your courses of action currently seem to be: return later when one of them IS here  or: follow the appeals process if you feel you have been gravely wronged
[01:32] <TheFunkbomb> why can't you just undo it?  The problem has been resolved.
[01:33] <genii> TheFunkbomb: I personally would not unban another op's ban without consulting them first. In this instance: They are not available and: I feel it was just in the first case.
[01:33] <TheFunkbomb> whatever
[01:34] <genii> Well that was 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back ;)
[01:34] <popey> heh
[01:35] <genii> I expect we'll see them again later
[03:09]  * genii makes more coffee
[04:55] <genii> OK, I'm out.
[07:29] <clug> sorry about that
[07:29] <clug> I accidently gave obottu a fake fact, I didn't realize it worked like that
[09:12] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu cycrosism@ spamming rickroll URL's in multiple channels - ubuntu was one of them. According to other channels has a history of it, check #srl
[09:13] <Madpilot> ah, was going to ask what that was about
[09:23] <Madpilot> gah. what's the syntax to restrict a !tell to one specific channel?
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> Madpilot: !factoid-#channel is foo
[09:24] <Madpilot> thanks
[09:26] <ikonia> #window 40
[09:26] <ikonia> oops
[09:53] <TheFunkbomb> anyone around?
[09:53] <Madpilot> ya
[09:54]  * tonyyarusso too
[09:54] <Madpilot> problem somewhere, TheFunkbomb?
[09:54] <TheFunkbomb> Yes.  I would like to have my ban from #ubuntu-offtopic lifted please
[09:55] <tonyyarusso> @btlogin
[09:57] <TheFunkbomb> or, at the very least, if we could discuss it
[10:00] <TheFunkbomb> hello?
[10:00] <tonyyarusso> ikonia, topyli: This seems to be yours.
[10:00] <TheFunkbomb> no, they said others may weigh in.  ikonia said if others feel it should be overturned, they are free to do so
[10:01] <tonyyarusso> That's fine, although I'm afraid I should be spending my time on my homework that's due in six hours this time.
[10:01] <TheFunkbomb> okay :/
[10:01] <TheFunkbomb> Madpilot, how about you?
[10:02] <Madpilot> I'm going to leave it up to the ops who were there and set the bans.
[10:03] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: so
[10:03] <TheFunkbomb> topyli, hello
[10:03] <Madpilot> although what I've read in the logs doesn't impress me. Misogyny much?
[10:04] <TheFunkbomb> what misogyny?
[10:05] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: you were *originally* banned for your sexist behavior on #offtopic. that should be remedied
[10:05] <TheFunkbomb> okay, I'm confused here.   and then asinine defense that it wasn't breaking the CoC because the harassment wouldn't be on IRC...
[10:06] <topyli> that has been expained to you numerous times with all possible words. i'm not going to do it all over again
[10:06] <TheFunkbomb> How is that sexism or misogyny?
[10:06] <TheFunkbomb> I don't understand how that's sexism
[10:06] <Madpilot> forget specifics, how is a statement like that remotely in compliance with the Ubuntu CoC?
[10:07] <TheFunkbomb> I felt it fell into a gray area.
[10:07] <topyli> right now the worst issue is that you come here every day to play dumb. i'm not playing, sorry
[10:07] <TheFunkbomb> actually, no one explained to me how it was sexism
[10:07] <elky> TheFunkbomb, how is enrolling assistance to harrass someone 'respectful' or 'considerate'?
[10:08] <TheFunkbomb> one topic at a time please.
[10:08] <TheFunkbomb> Explain to me how it is sexism
[10:08] <Madpilot> asking for help targeting *anyone* for harassment would have earned you the ban. stop playing dumb.
[10:09] <elky> TheFunkbomb, it is sexism because it displays 'misogyny' which is summed up as 'hatred or disrespect for women and women's issues'
[10:10] <elky> you intended to persecute a woman for something she said in a womens' advice community
[10:10] <TheFunkbomb> okay elky, and I agree with that definition but where did I say I was harassing this woman because she is a woman?  Calling her a woman is completely just a descriptor
[10:11] <elky> TheFunkbomb, you stalk womens' advice websites often?
[10:11] <TheFunkbomb> nah, I hit it through stumbleupon
[10:11] <TheFunkbomb> I'm quite active in women's rights
[10:11] <elky> and you decided to harass the person why?
[10:12] <TheFunkbomb> because it was such a ridiculous question.
[10:12] <elky> TheFunkbomb, actually, it's not.
[10:12] <TheFunkbomb> I thought it was.
[10:13] <elky> TheFunkbomb, you may have been given an in-depth course in biology and reproduction, but people who are excluded from those subjects for whatever reasons their parents decide often dont understand the specifics.
[10:13] <TheFunkbomb> If you threw a rock in the air and 5 seconds later, you got hit in the head with a rock, would you question where that rock came from?
[10:13] <elky> if i had not been taught about gravity, sure.
[10:14] <TheFunkbomb> Yes, but you could also use reasoning.  That's where the funny came in.  The woman and her husband's lack of reasoning
[10:14] <TheFunkbomb> and their desires to breed.
[10:15] <elky> you are applying hindsight. she may not have had that opportunity.
[10:15] <TheFunkbomb> Now, that's a funny image that I won't even start to explain
[10:16] <ziroday> Hi, someone might want to put an eye on Bacta, thanks!
[10:16] <elky> oh not that pest again
[10:16] <TheFunkbomb> So, I will admit I was wrong, if you folks can agree that my intent was not to be misogynistic or sexist.
[10:19] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: i can not know what your intent was. it appeared sexist, you got banned. you should say "sorry" and promise to avoid such language. that's what most people do when misunderstood in an unfortunate way
[10:19] <topyli> then your ban would be lifted
[10:19] <elky> well, it would have been if he'd not been a moron afterwards.
[10:20] <topyli> now i'm not very happy with having you on any channel because you obviously don't have any intention to respect the rules or those why try to uphold them
[10:20] <TheFunkbomb> I apologize that you believe my comment to be sexist but it truly wasn't.
[10:21] <elky> TheFunkbomb, you still have not explained how recriuiting harrassment assistance is in compliance with the Code of Conduct.
[10:21] <TheFunkbomb> Because the harassment would have happened off of IRC.
[10:21] <Madpilot> and that makes it all right to ask for help in an Ubuntu IRC channel?
[10:21] <Madpilot> really?
[10:22] <elky> TheFunkbomb, no, that's the wrong answer.
[10:23] <TheFunkbomb> I already said it was not right and by stopping, I showed that it wouldn't happen again
[10:23] <Madpilot> "Hey, who wants to help me harass some stupid noob on WoW?" would have gotten pretty much the same response - not appropriate for an Ubuntu IRC channel...
[10:25]  * popey notes the weasel words used in the "apology"
[10:26]  * tonyyarusso took a break from reading PoliSci to read IRC logs, and joins in recommending against removal of anything, even more so from ensuing conversations than the original, then goes back to reading PoliSci
[10:26] <popey> not apologising for the act, apologising that others believe the comment is sexist isnt an apology
[10:27] <TheFunkbomb> popey, why should I apologize for something that wasn't sexist.  I apologize for it being wrong and I apologize that I misunderstood ikonia's comments as ball busting but there was nothing sexist about it.
[10:29] <Madpilot> put down the shovel, man. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper...
[10:29] <popey> if you dont intend to apolgise then don't, but don't try to appear to apologise to engraciate yourself with the ops with a view to being unbanned
[10:29] <popey> It just makes you look less and less like the kind of person that the Ubuntu community wants kicking around with each step.
[10:30] <TheFunkbomb> the word "woman" was just a descriptor.  No where does it show intent of harassing a woman simply because she's a woman
[10:31] <elky> you still haven't shown a single bit of remorse for anything other than getting caught. you're not appearing in the least remorseful for the act of recruiting trolls.
[10:31]  * Madpilot wonders when TheFunkbomb will reach China, at the rate he's going...
[10:31] <TheFunkbomb> elky, I already apologized for it.
[10:32] <popey> I disagree. However even if one were to put that aside, you're still not acting like the kind of person _I_ would want in this community. I've seen no positive contribution.
[10:32] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: you can't apologize for what others think. you can only answer for your own actions
[10:32] <elky> an apology isn't remorse. you've apologised for getting caught. you've not expressed any indication that you are genuinely sorry for breaking the community's rules.
[10:33] <TheFunkbomb> elky, did you miss this?  " I apologize for it being wrong and I apologize that I misunderstood ikonia's comments as ball busting but there was nothing sexist about it."
[10:34] <tonyyarusso> TheFunkbomb: That was not missed - it is *precisely* the problem.
[10:34] <elky> "I apologize for it being wrong" <-- this is 'i'm sorry for getting caught'
[10:35] <elky> 'I apologize that I misunderstood ikonia's comments' <-- this is 'i'm sorry i started digging'
[10:35] <tonyyarusso> "it being wrong" is not "I was wrong".  The latter is what you need if you want any prayer of being taken seriously, although at this point you're going to need far more than that.
[10:35] <Madpilot> and the rest after 'wrong' is 'but I really didn't do anything wrong, you're being mean!'
[10:36] <TheFunkbomb> I apologized!  What else do you want?
[10:36] <popey> An apology for what you did
[10:36] <popey> not an apology for getting caught
[10:36] <elky> i want you to explain *why* it was wrong for a start.
[10:37] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: so far you have apologized for women who don't like being dissed. you have no intention to admit what you did was wrong. you have no respect for the community rules, and you certainly don't seem to appreciate the time and effort of those who work to uphold them
[10:37] <TheFunkbomb> I broke the CoC
[10:37] <tonyyarusso> progress
[10:38] <elky> TheFunkbomb, how was it a break of the CoC?
[10:38] <TheFunkbomb> I really don't even see the point of this.  Even if I do get unbanned, you're just going to bust my balls over something else immediately
[10:38] <topyli> like what? got something planned?
[10:39] <TheFunkbomb> no, but giving your history of reading into things that don't exist, I'm sure you'll find something
[10:39] <popey> How is this even remotely helping?
[10:39] <topyli> so this particular thing "doesn't exist" either?
[10:40] <Madpilot> given how busy the ubuntu channels are, if you behave most of us will forget the whole episode in a week or two... but that time gets longer the more you act the twit...
[10:40] <TheFunkbomb> topyli, mainly the sexism thing.
[10:41] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: yes that one
[10:41] <elky> TheFunkbomb, you've been instructed a dozen times already to take this through the appeals process if you're unhappy with the resolution here. I suggest taking it up there, or dropping it. This is a cyclical waste of resource right now.
[10:41] <TheFunkbomb> fine.
[10:41] <TheFunkbomb> !appeals
[10:42] <elky> jussi01, did you roll the db back at all?
[10:42] <Hobbsee> heads up on the spammer that just hit -motu and +1
[10:42]  * elky huggles Hobbsee
[10:42] <Hobbsee> :D
[10:42]  * Hobbsee huggles elky
[10:43] <Hobbsee> if a staffer wants to smack him over the head, that would be lovely
[10:43] <Madpilot> you just missed all the fun here, Hobbsee
[10:43] <Hobbsee> Madpilot: oh?  who was it?
[10:44] <Madpilot> TheFunkBomb, who thinks it's everyone elses fault but his that he's a clueless misogynists prat.
[10:44] <Hobbsee> oh, fun
[10:44] <Hobbsee> hey, jussi01, your friend is back
[10:44] <Hobbsee> that IP is dynamic.
[10:45] <jussi01> Hobbsee: who? where?
[10:45] <Hobbsee> jussi01: the one you banned half an hour ago
[10:45] <elky> Madpilot, i believe that he didn't intend to be misogynistic. most sexist pigs dont realise they're doing it.
[10:45] <Madpilot> heh
[10:46] <elky> no seriously. it's a culturally bred thing. it's how they're raised to behave and they dont know why they do it, since it's 90% reflex.
[10:47] <Hobbsee> jussi01: fixed (hopefully)
[10:47] <jussi01> :)
[10:47] <Madpilot> I know, I've seen it in practice IRL too, elky
[10:47] <elky> yeah, i know. i just felt like saying it
[10:48] <Madpilot> co-worker says something incredibly, stupidly sexist, someone calls them on it, gets a totally blank look in response.
[10:48] <Madpilot> the whole "I thought recruiting trolls would be OK because I wasn't going to be trolling this channel" crap was also charming
[10:48] <elky> what hurts more is the girls who say stuff like 'oh, hooters is a family restaurant! my husband takes me and the kids there all the time!' or 'i make the coffee because that's what girls are made for'
[10:49] <elky> the latter is an almost direct quote from Brunette Barbie, the resident ditz at work.
[10:49] <elky> the former is an almost direct quote from the other woman on the test team
[10:49] <wgrant> ... really?
[10:50] <elky> yes.
[10:50] <elky> both.
[10:50] <Madpilot> wow
[10:50] <wgrant> ... wow.
[10:50] <Madpilot> the coffee one... there's a chromosome-linked coffee-making gene? O Rly?
[10:50] <elky> Madpilot, explains why i make damn good espresso!
[10:51] <Madpilot> explains why I've never made decent coffee, don't like it much, and now drink lots of tea, I guess.
[10:51] <tonyyarusso> You can have ur coffee-makin' skillz - I got the real food covered.
[10:51]  * wgrant is a tea person too.
[10:51] <tonyyarusso> Mmm French toast
[10:51] <wgrant> This must prove that she was right.
[10:51] <elky> hehehe
[10:51]  * tonyyarusso also goes for tea
[10:52] <elky> but seriously, you can follow the adventures of brunette barbie on my twitter/identi.ca/facebook feeds
[10:52]  * popey hugs -ops
[10:53]  * Nafallo rather have someone good at making coffee making his coffee
[10:54] <Nafallo> more often than not, that's a machine... :-P
[10:54] <elky> the trick is to use an espresso machine, not that dirty instant stuff.
[10:54]  * elky ^5's Nafallo
[10:54] <Madpilot> instant coffee isn't coffee, it's just wasted water
[10:54] <Nafallo> elky: hehe. reading my caotic mind again, are we? ;-)
[10:55] <Nafallo> chaotic as well :-)
[10:55] <tonyyarusso> overreact...
[10:55] <jussi01> haha
[10:55] <Madpilot> pileon in #u
[10:55] <Madpilot> that spammer hitting other channels has us all edgy :)
[10:55] <elky> Madpilot, i hate probably iddnt need a ban...
[10:56] <Madpilot> I'll remove it
[10:56] <Madpilot> I did /cs kb by reflex
[10:56] <Madpilot> gone
[10:57]  * tonyyarusso kinda likes the 60-second bans - keeps 'em from popping right back with something dumber
[10:57] <Daviey>  /knockout $nick
[10:57] <Bacta> Hello
[10:57] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i hadn't heard about those - what are they?
[10:58] <Bacta> Can I please come back?
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Madpilot just demonstrated accidentally.
[10:58] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i wasn't there :(
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: It's not like it's a special setting or anything fun (although you can modify /at to do it in bleh)
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: You were here - that's plenty of info.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> good point
[10:59] <Bacta> I won't be bad anymore
[11:00] <elky> Bacta, i do not trust you at all. you're a perpetual pest with a long history across multiple networks.
[11:00] <tonyyarusso> um, Madpilot - I think you actually took out a bystander.
[11:00] <Bacta> across multiple networks? Name one other than Freenode?
[11:00]  * tonyyarusso has PARTS ignored, so isn't positive, but your +b is wrong
[11:00] <elky> tonyyarusso, he kind of joined in
[11:00] <elky> Bacta, Linuxchix.
[11:00] <tonyyarusso> ah
[11:00] <Madpilot> tonyyarusso, not entirely "I_Hate_Freedom> After Choking Chicken"
[11:00]  * tonyyarusso didn't see who
[11:00] <tonyyarusso> I thought perhaps you'd pulled a tonyyarusso on the the tabcomplete :P
[11:01] <Bacta> And there was almost a police investigation over that elky
[11:02] <Bacta> I don't know how the people over at Linuxchix got access to my personal information but it is very worrying, especially when one has a family
[11:02] <elky> Bacta, quit the bullcrap. You're not getting back into #ubuntu. period.
[11:03] <Bacta> That make you angry elky?
[11:03] <elky> eh?
[11:04] <Bacta> I'm in #ubuntu right now btw
[11:04] <Bacta> :)
[11:05] <Madpilot> did you just admit to ban-evading? on a logged channel?
[11:05] <Hobbsee> in which case, why are you pointing this out, and why are you here?
[11:06] <ikonia> Bacta: no problem I'll speak to freenode
[11:06] <Bacta> My question now is how long this ban is set for
[11:06] <Hobbsee> seems the only smart thing to do is to keep as quiet as possible, in the hope people don't notice, really...
[11:06] <ikonia> Bacta: you've done the masterbarting monkey line multiple times -
[11:07] <ikonia> Bacta: I can only assume this is "what you do"
[11:07] <Hobbsee> hey RichiH
[11:07] <elky> hi RichiH. bacta just admitted to us he's ban evading.
[11:07] <ikonia> ahh staff, bang on time
[11:07] <Bacta> *sigh*
[11:07] <Bacta> Some people are gullible
[11:08] <Bacta> Why evade a ban on a channel when there are dozens of other Linux channels on Freenode I can ask my questions in?
[11:08] <ikonia> you shouldn't say things that will get you into trouble if they are not true
[11:08]  * Hobbsee watches Bacta's chances expontentially decrease
[11:08] <ikonia> Bacta: ok - so lets not remove the ban then, and you can use those other channels
[11:08] <ikonia> Bacta: in the mean time freenode can look at your bragging about ban evading
[11:08] <ikonia> how does that sound ?
[11:08] <Bacta> Sure, I can just go into #debian instead
[11:08] <ikonia> ok, bye
[11:08] <Bacta> Practically the same thing
[11:09] <ikonia> problem solved
[11:09] <Madpilot> ya, #debian LOVES Ubuntu questions... <evil grin>
[11:09] <Bacta> Any staff on Freenode can see my IP
[11:09] <Bacta> With or without a cloak
[11:09] <ikonia> Bacta: well if you lose your cloak for bragging about ban evading - others will be able to see it too to verify
[11:09] <elky> Bacta, they can also see a history of previous connections, and which hosts those were from.
[11:09] <ikonia> Bacta: but anyway, the ubuntu issue is resolved so lets leave it there
[11:10] <ikonia> super
[11:11] <Madpilot> wow, it's like two-for-one night on sexist trolls with a compulsion to get themselves in more trouble...
[11:11] <ikonia> elky: apologies for stepping in there, but I wasn't going to allow his comapling about his other network issues get brougth into it
[11:11] <wgrant> I must remember to try something like that when I'm next going through airport security.
[11:11] <elky> ikonia, it's an intertwined issue.
[11:12] <Nafallo> wgrant: "are sheep allowed on the plane?"
[11:12] <elky> ikonia, a long running one RichiH is familiar with, hence why i called on him
[11:12] <ikonia> ahhhh
[11:12] <ikonia> I didn't wwant him moaning about it in here "it's not fair" etc etc
[11:12] <wgrant> Nafallo: I'm not from NZ!
[11:12] <Madpilot> Nafallo, only in NZ, .au, and Scotland </me ducks>
[11:13] <tonyyarusso> ....
[11:13] <elky> he doesnt usually go to that. at least he hasnt taken residence in my PM yet
[11:13] <tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Three countries, and you pick three separate ways of indicating them?
[11:13] <wgrant> tonyyarusso: Nobody says New Zealand, so there's only two ways there.
[11:13] <Madpilot> tonyyarusso, consistency is the sign of.. something-or-other. Nothing good, anyway.
[11:14] <elky> Madpilot, certainly not a sign of US standards...
[11:14] <Madpilot> good thing I'm from Darkest Canuckistan, then
[11:14] <tonyyarusso> elky: You must mean US                                                                                standards
[11:14] <elky> indeed. your trillion is a real trillion, unlike those pitiful USian ones.
[11:15] <tonyyarusso> "There must be this much white space between completely opposing concepts."
[11:15] <Nafallo> wgrant, Madpilot: you people so haven't heard Mastering Swedish apparently...
[11:15] <Nafallo> wgrant, Madpilot: http://home.nafallo.info/tmp/mastering_swedish_-_lesson_1.mp3
[11:16]  * Madpilot is scared to click that link...
[11:16] <Nafallo> public_html/tmp/mastering_swedish_-_lesson_1.mp3: Audio file with ID3 version 23.0 tag, MP3 encoding
[11:16] <Nafallo> stop being scared :-P
[11:17] <Madpilot> just because it really is an mp3 doesn't make me less nervous :)
[11:18] <tonyyarusso> rofl, what is this?
[11:19] <Nafallo> there is 2 3 4 and 5 as well if you like the first one ;-)
[11:19] <Nafallo> just change the URL
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> oh god
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> I hate you.
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> I have homework to do!
[11:19] <Nafallo> haha
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> Nafallo: Are these actually right?
[11:20] <Nafallo> tonyyarusso: with concerns to translation, yes :-)
[11:20] <Madpilot> and utter nonsense in both languages?
[11:20] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:20]  * Nafallo is heading for a visit of the buildds.
[11:21] <Nafallo> bbiab :-)
[11:21] <tonyyarusso> "The duck turned into the Holy Spirit."???
[11:24] <Madpilot> transsubquackiation. well known phenomenomomomom
[11:24] <tonyyarusso> lol...
[11:30] <elky> !-appeal
[11:30] <elky> o.O
[11:31] <elky> it's reverted my s/email-addy/please read the page for the email addy/ thing or something...
[11:31] <Madpilot> !appeal
[11:33] <Madpilot> what should it say, elky?
[11:35] <elky> hold on...
[11:36] <elky> !appeal
[11:36] <elky> !appeals
[11:36]  * elky headdesks
[11:36] <elky> !forget appeals
[11:36] <elky> !appeals is <alias> appeal
[11:36] <elky> grrrrrrrr
[11:38] <elky> jussi01, around?
[11:41] <ikonia> Bacta: whats up now ?
[11:42] <Bacta> Can I msg you?
[11:42] <ikonia> why ?
[11:43] <Bacta> I would prefer to bring up this issue in a more closed setting
[11:43] <ikonia> ok then
[11:43] <tonyyarusso> Bacta: The appeals process wiki page already directed you to a more closed setting.  You must use that one, not just keep messing around in here.
[11:47] <Nafallo> back
[11:51] <Bacta> Hello
[11:51] <Bacta> I would like to appeal my ban
[11:51] <ikonia> Bacta: you now have the appeals process information, please follow it through
[11:51] <Bacta> I have
[11:51] <Bacta> To the letter
[11:51] <ikonia> super
[11:51] <ikonia> then if there is nothing else, could you please leave the channel
[11:52] <Bacta> I have not sworn
[11:52] <Bacta> I have msg'd the op
[11:52] <Bacta> Now I am taking it here since step 2 has failed
[11:52]  * tonyyarusso briefly points out that your ban was from elky, not me - I just did the remove
[11:53] <Bacta> I have that individual on ignore, please don't make me explain why
[11:53] <ikonia> Bacta: ok - well I'll follow up step 3
[11:53] <ikonia> Bacta: your behaviour is unacceptable - you know this, you still do it
[11:57] <ikonia> Bacta: anything else ?
[11:58] <elky> 'that individual'?
[12:12] <popey> @login
[12:12] <popey> @btlogin
[12:22] <elky> popey, know ianto?
[12:22] <popey> yes :S
[12:22] <popey> I'd vote -1
[12:22] <elky> why?
[12:23] <ikonia> !membership
[12:23] <popey> because he's caused some conflict in -uk, he has been incredibly impatient
[12:23] <popey> its quite a long story
[12:24] <elky> is he likely to have a cheersquad at all?
[12:24] <popey> he was asked to work with the -uk loco (as wales is in the uk) and accepts that but then refuses to do so, changes mind when it suits him
[12:24] <popey> hasn't actually contirbuted much
[12:24] <popey> two people he asked to cheer for him a few mins agio
[12:24] <popey> one of which i dont think even understands what membership is
[12:24] <ikonia> interesting bugabundo's applying for membership also
[12:25] <popey> ianto managed to get a loco cd pack even after I told him that non-approved locos dont get them
[12:25] <elky> popey, i like my membership meetings to have both sides of the story.
[12:25] <popey> he went to canonical and asked for one (and they stupidly gave it to him)
[12:25] <ikonia> I don't see ianto on the list ?
[12:26] <popey> he is on the asia one probably
[12:26] <popey> because he cant make the emea one tonight
[12:26] <ikonia> ooh, yet he' in -uk working for whales
[12:26] <ikonia> ahhh he's not in apac
[12:27] <ikonia> nope, not on the apec list either, although I think it's an old list
[12:27] <ikonia> I see him
[12:27] <ikonia> odd list, ziro day is on the list, yet he's already been approved, and ianto is on the same list ?
[12:27] <popey> his contribution isn't large
[12:28] <TheFunkbomb> how long does it take to get a reply from !appeals?
[12:28] <TheFunkbomb> usually
[12:29] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I think it depends on when the appeals guys all get a chance to read the mail and get together
[12:29] <TheFunkbomb> I see.
[12:29] <ikonia> I don't know for a fact though, keep in mind that irc is spread out aross the world, I'd expect 24 hours to pass
[12:29] <ikonia> (again not fact)
[12:29] <TheFunkbomb> understandable.
[12:29] <TheFunkbomb> You gonna let the ban up or not?
[12:30] <ikonia> I explained to you yesterday I won't progress this myself
[12:30] <TheFunkbomb> I thought I would ask again.  Perhaps you had a change of heart.
[12:31] <TheFunkbomb> well, toodles
[12:32] <ikonia> popey: ianto's page looks like he's very active ?
[12:32]  * popey checks it
[12:32] <ikonia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chris
[12:32] <ikonia> jpds is mentoring him, so maybe that's sorted out some of your worries ?
[12:32] <popey> ta
[12:33] <popey> nope
[12:33] <popey> not at all
[12:33] <ikonia> oh
[12:33] <popey> he has rubbed people up the wrong way
[12:33] <popey> that page doesn't show a big list to me
[12:34] <ikonia> packaging, translating, leading a loco, documenting, it reads to the glancing eye as quite busy
[12:34] <ikonia> big helper providing support in #ubuntu-uk
[12:34] <elky> the translating is little more than copypasting
[12:34] <ikonia> which conflicts with your assement,
[12:34] <popey> he's not _that_ active in -uk
[12:35] <popey> spent most of his first few months trying to say enough to appear on the irc stats page
[12:35] <Madpilot> translating from... English to... English?
[12:35] <elky> Madpilot, yep
[12:35] <Madpilot> sometimes surprisingly difficult, but in the case of Ubuntu's docs, I'd say not.
[12:51] <jpds> popey: Did you tell him about the non-LoCo pack thing on the loco-contacts list?
[12:51] <popey> he asked on the loco contacts list if non-locos could have one
[12:51] <popey> i explicitly said "no"
[12:51] <popey> he went around me to canonical and got one
[12:51] <popey> and then on irc he told me that I "wasnt clear"
[12:51] <popey> (basically he lied to get one)
[12:52] <popey> when i say non-loco, I meant non-approved-loco
[12:53] <jpds> I know. I'm just checking me logs.
[12:53] <popey> it's his impatience that irritates people. he asked the uk loco team lead about starting a welsh loco, the team lead said he'd get back to him after speaking to jono, ianto _agreed_ to this and then went around him and requested the dns key and mailing list anyway
[12:55] <popey> I also witnessed some anti-English sentiment in #ubuntu-cym recently which didn't get stamped on until I said something
[12:55] <elky> popey, did you see how he snapped at us in -meeting?
[12:56] <popey> yes
[12:56] <elky> hrm... i need something long enough to pound my ceiling with.
[12:57]  * ikonia smirks
[12:57] <elky> i dont know what they're doing upstairs, but i can *feel* the reverberations through the solid concrete these apartments are made of
[12:59]  * popey hands elky a viking with a stick
[12:59]  * popey pokes Nafallo
[13:17] <bazhang> @login
[13:17] <bazhang> @bansearch sp0rtily
[13:28] <elky> um...
[13:28] <elky> is grossgrape back? :-/
[13:28] <Pici> hmm?
[13:28] <elky> bazhang, please tell me he's not back...
[13:32] <bazhang> elky, just noticing that nick 'abra' is on the same serverloft address
[13:35] <elky> behaving the same way?
[13:37] <bazhang> not spoken in #ubuntu that I have seen, but in the same exact channels that groovyorange/etc was in before he stopped trolling -ot
[13:37] <bazhang> though now he is in -ru as well :/
[13:38] <elky> grepping logs
[13:38] <elky> 'abra' has only ever spoken 7 lines in #u
[13:54] <TheFunkbomb> anyone want to undo my ban yet?
[13:54] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, no
[13:54] <TheFunkbomb> bazhang, why not?
[13:54] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, this has been made amply clear.
[13:55] <TheFunkbomb> ???
[13:55] <TheFunkbomb> what has been made clear?
[13:55] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, hang on a second
[13:55] <bazhang> mprice, what can we do for you
[13:55] <TheFunkbomb> j
[13:55] <TheFunkbomb> err okay
[13:55] <mprice> quick questions is wtf, considering cussing on the channels?
[13:55] <ikonia> mprice: yes,
[13:55] <bazhang> !wtf
[13:56] <ikonia> mprice: it means "what the fuck" to most people - so it's not really needed
[13:56] <mprice> that might be true but it wasn't directed at anybody
[13:56] <ikonia> mprice: yes, but saying "what the fuck" in the channel would not be acceptable, so neither is wtf
[13:57] <ikonia> mprice: maybe a good idea to scan over the guidelines link I sent you
[13:57] <ikonia> just get an idea of the basic rules
[13:58] <mprice> I know the basic rules, to me wtf is not cussing its merely expressing something without actually cussing all over the channel
[13:59] <TheFunkbomb> don't argue with them
[13:59] <bazhang> no need to type/share though
[13:59] <TheFunkbomb> trust me
[13:59] <mprice> im stating a point
[13:59] <bazhang> indeed.
[13:59] <mprice> I used to be on irc all the time and never got warned for saying that
[13:59] <bazhang> 'darn' is preferable
[13:59] <ikonia> mprice: the point is - those are the channels rules
[14:00] <mprice> to bad its not stated in the channel rules
[14:00] <mprice> I read them all
[14:00] <bazhang> it is. the bot factoids are included.
[14:00] <ikonia> mprice: bad language -
[14:00] <ikonia> mprice: and you now, so it shouldnt be a problem
[14:00] <mprice> I read it
[14:00] <ikonia> super
[14:01] <mprice> so because it might offend somebody its banned
[14:01] <mprice> so is Mohammed banned from IRC
[14:01] <bazhang> ?
[14:01] <mprice> well it might offend somebody
[14:01] <bazhang> mprice, well, you know the rules now,
[14:01] <bazhang> mprice, if there is nothing else
[14:01] <mprice> its not listed in the rules
[14:02] <mprice> if wtf the is considered cussing then these channels have gone way to conservative them
[14:02] <bazhang> mprice, you have stated your opinion.
[14:03] <mprice> well then I guess I will go somewhere else where I don't get yelled at for saying wtf
[14:04] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, you have said you will go through the appeals process.
[14:04] <TheFunkbomb> right, but we could settle this nicely
[14:04] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, joining here /step is completed.
[14:05] <TheFunkbomb> I have another question.  Why are some people who aren't Ops allowed to idle here?
[14:06] <bazhang> some are freenode st aff, others are loco channel operators or other trusted individuals
[14:06] <TheFunkbomb> why are they "trusted"?
[14:06] <Nafallo> popey: lol. I was in transit :-P
[14:07] <bazhang> well mostly ^^ :)
[14:08] <popey> TheFunkbomb: because they have shown through their actions that they can be trusted.
[14:08] <bazhang> at any rate TheFunkbomb please give it some time to go through the full appeals process
[14:08] <TheFunkbomb> I was hoping we could just settling things amicably.
[14:08] <TheFunkbomb> I'm not an unreasonable person.
[14:09] <bazhang> TheFunkbomb, well that step is completed. re-joining here to plead /step is past.
[14:09] <TheFunkbomb> okey dokey...
[14:19] <ikonia> wow - he changed his nick
[14:19] <ikonia> I wonder if that was an attempt to get around the ban
[14:19] <bazhang> is is a forward?
[14:19] <ikonia> yup
[14:19] <bazhang> err it
[14:19] <bazhang> aha
[14:19] <ikonia> his nick didn't change in #ubuntu - so he obviously started a client to try to get around it
[14:19] <ikonia> a second client I mean
[14:19] <bazhang> :/
[14:20] <bazhang> so much for amicable
[14:20] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops thefunkbomb started a second client to his existing one in #ubuntu, called thefunkbomb_ to try to get back into #ubuntu-offtopic but caught forwarded here, quit as soon as he realised he was back in here
[14:25] <ikonia> howdy
[14:26] <LjL> hi
[14:26]  * genii makes more coffee
[14:27] <bazhang> [SkamanSam1] #ubuntu #ubuntards <-- that cant be an official channel
[14:28] <ikonia> are you sure ;)
[14:28] <bazhang> :(
[14:28] <LjL> it could be debated
[14:29] <ikonia> ##club-ubuntards ?
[14:29] <ikonia> is that next ?
[14:29] <bazhang> hehe
[14:29] <LjL> you need to understand them, they take up too much space to fit in #archlinux-offtopic alone :)
[15:07] <Pici> ikonia: I wouldn't waste your time on erry
[15:09] <ikonia> she's nuts
[15:09] <ikonia> I thought someone was supposed to be mentoring her
[15:09] <LjL> what's she doing
[15:10] <Pici> Nothing new
[15:10] <jussi01> bazhang: rootray a troll do you not think?
[15:11] <bazhang> jussi01, judging by his whois I would say yes :)
[15:11] <bazhang> #gentoo-cn :(
[15:12] <LjL> what's with #gentoo-cn?
[15:12] <bazhang> afraid to look
[15:13] <bazhang> the -cn channels can be rough as it is
[15:13] <LjL> well if someone is chinese they'd be in there though, no? makes them a troll by definition? :o
[15:15] <jussi01> LjL: I said he was a troll because of what he was saying in #k...
[15:15] <bazhang> and he is tons of linux channels
[15:15] <bazhang> err in
[15:15] <bazhang> 'no flash for linux'
[15:15] <Pici> So is LjL, does that make him a troll too?
[15:16] <LjL> Pici: ...yes?
[15:16] <Pici> LjL: Darn, you weren't supposed to answer.
[15:16] <jussi01> LjL: is the biggest troll we have...
[15:16] <LjL> oh sorry
[15:16] <jussi01> :P
[15:16] <bazhang> is devendra !ot for all the router chatter?
[15:16] <LjL> but i did because, well, because i'm a troll maybe? :P
[15:20] <LjL> fact 1: erry is, indeed, nuts. fact 2: that channel is more nuts than her.
[16:23] <wgrant> Be warned that there is a non-Ubuntu channel (#ubuntuone) that seems to want ubottu. I'd recommend not complying.
[16:24] <LjL> you mean a Canonical-sponsored channel with the IRC Council as a founder? ;)
[16:25] <wgrant> A channel for a commercial Canonical project.
[16:25] <wgrant> s/project/product/
[16:27] <LjL> yesterday someone spammed the link in #ubuntu too
[16:28]  * Pici got an invite yesterday
[16:28] <jdong> yesterday someone spammed the link in my inbox too
[16:28] <Pici> s/someone/canonical/
[16:28] <wgrant> It was quite literally spam, too.
[16:28] <jdong> indeed.
[16:29] <wgrant> They haven't got a very good mark in my book...
[16:29] <jdong> complete with a vague description and time sensitive referal link
[16:30] <wgrant> And arguable trademark abuse.
[16:31] <LjL> trademark abuse...? they own the trademark, don't they?
[16:31] <wgrant> Abuse, not violation.
[16:31] <wgrant> They do own it, but they should be at least trying to follow the guidelines they impose on the rest of the world.
[16:32] <wgrant> (Ubuntu One falls afoul of most of the guidelines)
[16:32] <jdong> I still dont fully see from their marketing speak what the service actually is.
[16:32] <jdong> sounds like some sort of "let us store your home directory" cloud service
[16:32] <Gary> similar to mobile me
[16:33] <LjL> it is "cloud" indeed
[16:33] <Pici> I think it is.
[16:33] <wgrant> jdong: It's a bad Dropbox clone.
[16:33] <wgrant> With cloud cloud cloudd!
[16:33] <Pici> I signed up, but then realized that I really don't have a use for it.
[16:33] <jdong> Gary: well if that is what it is supposed to be then it seems to be a bad clone at that
[16:33] <wgrant> I signed up, broke it a bit, then realised that I don't trust it.
[16:33] <LjL> way to go Pici, fuel their silly expectations!
[16:33] <Gary> they have you now Pici mwhahaha
[16:33] <jdong> it is only file syncing right?
[16:34] <jdong> No PIM, etc?
[16:34] <LjL> and "sharing them with others".
[16:34] <LjL> especially sharing them with Canonical, i would imagine.
[16:34] <jdong> oooh aaah :)
[16:34] <wgrant> jdong: Only file syncing for now.
[16:34] <jdong> "You aren't logged in, so you may not have a subscription"
[16:34]  * jdong is amused by the phrasing.
[16:35] <LjL> and they "require 9.04 or later"
[16:35] <wgrant> LjL: If Launchpad is anything to go by, it means "sharing with everyone"
[16:35] <LjL> so they sent me an invitation, but i'm on hardy so i couldn't use it anyway
[16:35] <LjL> so much for LTS
[16:35] <wgrant> LjL: It can be fairly easily run on earlier releases.
[16:35] <LjL> but they don't support it.
[16:35]  * genii-around pokes in jussi01's general direction with a coffee mug
[16:36] <jdong> *takes a look at the deb*
[16:36] <LjL> wgrant: i don't know much about launchpad tbh, aside from not particularly liking it :P
[16:36] <wgrant> LjL: It's pretty nice, but I've found some terrible vulnerabilities in it.
[16:36] <wgrant> LjL: But people fixed them very quickly, so it wasn't all bad.
[16:37] <wgrant> But I don't want to trust my ~ to it!
[16:37] <mneptok> LjL: seriosuly? it requires >/=9.04?
[16:37] <LjL> mneptok: it claims it does on the site, then whether or not it actually works with earlier versions... well', i'm not trying it out
[16:37] <jdong> what on earth is a "private PPA"?
[16:37] <jdong> mneptok: it claims so
[16:37] <wgrant> jdong: A PPA that is private, aka. a P3A.
[16:37] <wgrant> jdong: Accessible only by subscribers.
[16:38] <LjL> jdong: it's a bit like an IRC chat, or a DOS system, or a SMS service
[16:38] <wgrant> LjL: Personal Package Archive vs Private Personal Package Archive, I'm afraid.
[16:38] <mneptok> LjL: i keep pronouncing UbuntuOne in the Italian fashion, and wondering if it goes well with the marinara arrabiata
[16:38] <wgrant> It's not actually reduntant.
[16:38] <jdong> mmm.
[16:38] <mneptok> Oobootooohnay.
[16:39] <jdong> and who does LP provide private PPA services for?
[16:39] <LjL> mneptok: that's funny, as we have the airline company AirOne which we actually pronounce the English fashion (most of the time)
[16:39] <wgrant> jdong: The security team was the primary motivation. But other parties may purchase them.
[16:39] <wgrant> jdong: THey are frequently used to distribute stuff like Ubuntu One while it's still internal.
[16:39] <wgrant> jdong: kubuntu-ninjas also has one, because KDE is on crack and embargos their normal releases.
[16:40] <mneptok> LjL: "If you enjoyed your ubuntuone, may I suggest the cannoli?"
[16:40] <jdong> I see
[16:40] <LjL> wut
[17:09] <genii-around> Just keeping this nick on in case the quassel box conks out again
[17:33] <jumbers> I'm not sure what happened, but it looks like ubottu timed out and vanished
[17:35] <Pici> now you did it
[17:35] <Pici> er
[17:36] <Pici> jumbers: But seriously, thanks for letting us know
[17:36] <jumbers> Pici: No problem
[18:26] <Pici> banned
[18:27] <Seeker`> :D
[18:34] <Pici> jussi01: Around?
[18:35] <jussi01> Pici: no :P
[18:35] <Pici> jussi01: Care to ask ubottu to leave #ubuntu-bugs ?
[18:36] <Pici> ty
[19:13] <Pici> LjL: The person did ask "Anyone french here", I admit I missed that on my first read through too.  Although I do find the recent over-use of factoids to be quite annoying
[19:13] <LjL> Pici: [20:12:46] <darthanubis> so what
[19:14] <LjL> this is the attitude
[19:14] <LjL> "we gave them a bad factoid, so what"
[19:14] <LjL> so what? he left the channel.
[19:17] <LjL> on the other hand, how about an automatic banforward on saying "ciao a tutti" >:
[19:17] <Pici> I'm waiting for the !list
[19:18] <LjL> Pici: they already joined -it
[19:18] <LjL> apparently "ciao a tutti" is compulsory whether or not you know you're not on an italian channel
[19:19] <stew> pronto
[19:19] <stew> prego
[19:20] <LjL> stew: this is irc, not a phone...
[19:20] <stew> aloha
[20:17]  * genii sips
[20:41] <genii>  /me gets back to keyboard, feeds jussi01 more coffee
[20:41]  * genii gets back to keyboard, feeds jussi01 more coffee
[20:41] <genii> Bah. Spaces
[20:41] <jussi01> hehe
[20:41] <TheFunkbomb> anyone want to review my case?
[20:41] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: please stop
[20:42] <jussi01> TheFunkbomb: your request is being dealt with by the IRC council. We will get back to you soon.
[20:42] <TheFunkbomb> I was told to check back
[20:42] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: you have informed us you have followed the appeal process
[20:42] <TheFunkbomb> thought I would try since #ubuntu-offtopic loads when I start IRC
[20:42] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: disable autojoin
[20:42] <TheFunkbomb> peace
[20:42] <TheFunkbomb> It's set up exactly how I want it
[20:43]  * ikonia is fed up
[20:43] <genii> ikonia: He was here yesterday again too carrying on
[20:43] <jussi01> ikonia: go watch a movie :)
[20:43] <ikonia> genii: not bothered about that - he can do what he wants and show himself up as he wants
[20:43] <ikonia> jussi01: not until 9:15 - had to be put back
[20:43] <jussi01> ikonia: ahh
[20:44] <ikonia> hence my sulking
[20:49] <Seeker`> what movie?
[20:49] <ikonia> Star Trek
[20:50] <ikonia> eventually
[20:50] <Seeker`> cool
[21:58] <znh> Good day lads
[21:58] <Seeker`> how can we help you?
[21:58] <znh> Seems my connection had a hick up and caused some trouble; thus the redirect to ##fix_your_connection
[21:59] <znh> and my touchpad is causing trouble..
[21:59] <Seeker`> did you read the instructions there?
[21:59] <znh> anyhow i'd like to request some mercy
[21:59] <znh> which? Haven't seen any
[22:01] <Seeker`> sorry, my mistake
[22:01] <Seeker`> what channel are you trying to access?
[22:01] <Myrtti> watch out for YYYYYY and bigsmoke in #u
[22:02] <Seeker`> Myrtti: yeah, saw them being abit odd
[22:02] <Myrtti> @mark
[22:02] <Myrtti> @mark #ubuntu bigsmoke acting weird, flooding
[22:02] <Seeker`> znh: what channel are you trying to join?
[22:03] <Myrtti> @bansearch znh
[22:04] <Seeker`> Myrtti: i'll rmove it then
[22:04] <Seeker`> from #ubuntu anyway
[22:05] <Seeker`> eugh, "channel not fully synchronised yet"
[22:06] <Myrtti> Seeker`: irssi problem then
[22:07] <Myrtti> channel_max_who_sync = 2000
[22:09] <Seeker`> grr, that was the wrong one
[22:10] <znh> Thanks lads!
[22:11] <znh> mind if I stick around?
[22:11] <Seeker`> we would prefer it if you didn't
[22:11] <Seeker`> @login
[22:12] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[22:12] <Seeker`> argh
[22:12] <Seeker`> bot isn't letting me in
[22:13] <znh> Seeker`, how so?
[22:13] <znh> I won't be loudy at all
[22:13] <Myrtti> !idle
[22:14] <Seeker`> znh: what Myrtti said
[22:14] <znh> actually, what ubottu said
[22:15] <znh> anyhow. thanks for the blazing fast help. Keep up the good work!
[22:18] <Seeker`> znh: please don't idle in here
[22:19] <znh> Geez. Just waiting for someone to end a twist to the conversation
[22:19] <znh> Rating---
[22:20] <Flannel> which twist?
[22:20] <Seeker`> the twist where he doesn't leave
[22:21] <Seeker`> Pici: Looks like znh has fixed his connection; I can't remove the ban from +1.
[22:23] <Seeker`> o/
[22:23] <Seeker`> @brlogin
[22:23] <Seeker`> @login
[22:23] <Seeker`> @whoami
[22:23] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[22:23] <Seeker`> fscking bot; apparently the BT isn't available for anonymous users
[22:24] <Flannel> Seeker`: Its not, but login isn't anonymous.
[22:24] <Myrtti> Flannel: the login is borked
[22:24] <Flannel> Try deleting your cookies related to that domain, and then following the login link again
[22:24] <Myrtti> oh sigh
[22:24] <tsimpson> it appears that ubottu is not on ubottu.com
[22:25] <Flannel> It works for me.  Although I had that issue a month ago or os.
[22:25] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[22:26] <Seeker`> same error
[22:26] <Flannel> Does your URL have one or two slashes after the domain?
[22:26] <tsimpson> Seeker`: [22:24:56] <tsimpson> it appears that ubottu is not on ubottu.com
[22:26] <Seeker`> :/
[22:27] <Seeker`> Flannel: 1
[22:27] <Flannel> Seeker`: Try two.
[22:27] <Flannel> ubottu.com//whatever
[22:27] <Flannel> interesting.
[22:27] <jussi01> hehe
[22:28] <Seeker`> no better
[22:28] <Flannel> Seeker`: even after deleting your cookies?
[22:28] <Flannel> (the ubottu ones)
[22:28] <Seeker`> Flannel: yup
[22:28] <elky> try a new firefox maybe?
[22:29] <tsimpson> you can read what I'm saying?
[22:29] <Flannel> tsimpson: No!
[22:29] <Seeker`> tsimpson: yes
[22:29] <Seeker`> tsimpson: where is it then?
[22:29] <tsimpson> right now on jussi01.com
[22:29] <elky> Flannel, i just tried in opera. i've never used it in opera. it still doesnt work for me.
[22:30] <tsimpson> did someone restart the bot via the web interface?
[22:30] <Flannel> elky: Apparently its due to a bad link between them.
[22:30] <tsimpson> there is no link between ubottu.com and jussi01.com, they are different servers
[22:30] <Myrtti> {{sofixit}}
[22:30]  * Myrtti hides
[22:31] <jussi01> Myrtti: back in your box!
[22:31] <elky> oh, there he is...
[22:32] <Pici> tsimpson: I did earlier... the bot dropped its connection.
[22:32] <elky> i hit the reset button
[22:32] <tsimpson> Pici: please update your bookmarks to ubottu.com :)
[22:32] <Pici> tsimpson: will do
[22:33] <popey> Myrtti: /79
[22:33] <popey> gah
[22:33] <Seeker`> popeyfail?
[22:34] <Myrtti> don't see those too often
[22:34] <elky> jussi01, did the killswitch actually kill it? :(
[22:34] <Myrtti> usually it's Dave2 that's full of /fail 79
[22:35] <elky> it's only crawled into 3 channels so far
[22:35] <Seeker`> ienorand: how can we help you?
[22:35] <jussi01> elky: what?
[22:35] <elky> ienorand, if it's about ubottu, we're working on it.
[22:36] <Myrtti> elky: it's just slow, poor girl
[22:36] <ienorand> yea, it was, just saw a comment that you were aware of it...
[22:38] <popey> !seeker
[22:38] <popey> bah
[22:38] <Seeker`> popey: No need to talk about yourself like that :P
[22:38] <tsimpson> give it a minute, and prey it doesn't flood off
[22:38] <jussi01> popey: just leave her to sync!!!
[22:38]  * jussi01 wonders how many times he has to say that...
[22:40] <Myrtti> be vewwy vewwy gentle to her
[22:40]  * Seeker` pets Myrtti
[22:42] <Seeker`> its amazing how crazy everyone gets when the bot disappears for 30 secs
[22:42] <Myrtti> Seeker`: it's like our left hand nowadays
[22:42] <Myrtti> you can do without for a while, but try to ride a bike and you're doomed
[22:43] <Seeker`> riding a bike one-handed isn't too bad
[22:44] <popey> \o/
[22:44] <Flannel> no, popey:  .o/
[22:47] <Seeker`> Flannel: why are you standing behind popey?
[22:47] <Flannel> Seeker`: I'm a ninja?
[22:47] <Seeker`> ...
[23:21] <Seeker`> g'night
[23:47] <Dave2> Myrtti, indeed :(</late>
[23:48] <Dave2> (I was full of it constantly today)
[23:54] <Myrtti> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ICanHasCheezburger/~3/3y2pVmeqi3c/
[23:54] <Nafallo> hehe