[12:28] <Fujitsu> mshima: There's an ITP for grandr in Debian, so there's no reason to duplicate work.
[12:29] <ScottK> Fujitsu: It's already pretty well duplicated as he's got the package close to ready (from my minimally trained eye).
[12:36] <mshima> Fujitsu: I started packaging day 18. The ITP is from yesterday. If my package get accepted at ubuntu I will send it to the ITP owner.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> OK.
[12:37] <mshima> I'm using randr 1.2 for 1 month and with this tool I don't need terminal any more :)
[12:37] <Fujitsu> I've just been using the terminal, but I use it for everything.
[12:39] <mshima> I can't get extended layout with it yet
[12:39] <mshima> :(
[12:39] <mshima> Probably will be fixed soon
[12:42] <ajmitch> ah, a nice white morning here this morning
[12:42] <nixternal> orly?
[12:43] <nixternal> I miss snow already
[12:43] <ajmitch> yarly
[12:43] <nixternal> that or you are a drug dealer
[12:43] <ajmitch> shhh
[12:43] <nixternal> haha
[12:43] <nixternal> booooooosted!
[12:44] <brylie> how do I 'create a release' on a launchpad project I started? I have a .py file to upload. I'm having trouble getting a response in #launchpad.
[12:45] <nixternal> on the project page, there is a "register a series" link, I think that is what you are looking for, or possibly the "register a branch" if you are wanting some bzr lovin'
[12:45] <nixternal> https://launchpad.net/project_name
[12:48] <brylie> ok, series it is since I don't have SVN or the ether
[12:48] <brylie> other
[12:48] <brylie> CVS
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Ah, I think you have to create the release in the series.
[01:30] <jrib> Hi, the last comment at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5639 has two warnings.  How do I generate those here on my system?
[01:33] <ScottK> jrib: run lintian on the .deb file.
[01:33] <ScottK> jrib: jcorbier's right about arch all versus any.  I missed that.
[01:34] <jrib> yep, I agree after reading the documentation too
[01:38] <Toadstool> jrib: sorry I should have mentioned how I got the warnings.  Realized that after hitting the submit button
[01:39] <jrib> Toadstool: np, thanks for the comments
[01:39] <Toadstool> you're welcome
[01:57] <keescook> so, what phase of debhelper does the "let's gzip everything that's a doc" bit?
[01:58] <keescook> nm, dh_compress.  carry one
[01:58] <keescook> on
[01:58] <keescook> I need a weekend.  oh look!
[02:07] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[02:07] <persia> Morning TheMuso
[02:20] <TheMuso> When does the autosync get turned off?
[02:21] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: About 2 days ago, I think.
[02:21] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thanks.
[02:21] <Fujitsu> DebianImportFreeze was the 21st
[02:21] <TheMuso> Yep.
[02:21] <TheMuso> Ok, looks like a manual sync of jack-audio-connection-kit is needed.
[02:27] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Now that autosync is likely switched off, can we please have your RC bug thingy working again? It'd be nice to stay fairly up to date from the start, rather than catching up in a couple of months.
[02:29] <Toadstool> n/win1
[02:29] <Toadstool> hmpf
[02:29] <TheMuso> heh
[02:29] <Toadstool> I need a brain
[02:32] <Fujitsu> Is it just me, or is http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pokerth.html completely stuffed?
[02:33] <Fujitsu> It migrated to testing, but never had any uploads?
[02:37] <ScottK> Best way to avoid bugs is not give people software to install.
[02:51] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll see what I can do
[02:52] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Thanks.
[03:00] <ScottK> StevenK: Do you mind if I merge cyrus-imapd-2.2?
[04:33] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
[04:36] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[04:36] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:36] <ajmitch> already got enough here, thanks
[04:37] <TheMuso> heh
[04:38] <nixternal> shh, I am trying to sleep!
[04:38] <ajmitch> s/sleep/play with vista/
[04:38] <nixternal> ya, how did you guess?
[04:38] <ajmitch> we know you too well
[04:39] <nixternal> I have cygwin and pbuilder building all of my Ubuntu packages on Vista now
[04:39] <nixternal> d'oh, that won't help convince ya will it ;)
[04:39] <ajmitch> no, it surely won't
[04:40] <TheMuso> nixternal: Thats evil.
[04:41] <nixternal> haha
[04:41] <nixternal> each package contains its very own worm, curtously of steven ballmer
[04:42] <ajmitch> can I blame you for losing connectivity as well?
[04:42] <ajmitch>  6. Gi1-0-413.gw1.akl1.asianetcom.net                                                                                42.1%    19   67.8  68.6  67.1  71.6   1.6 7. po2-0.gw1.lax1.asianetcom.net                                                                                88.9%    19  1532. 1535. 1532. 1539.   4.8
[04:42] <ajmitch> from ~70ms on one hop to 1500+ on the next
[04:44] <nixternal> sure
[04:49] <ScottK> nixternal: I don't see a bunch of +1's rolling in and you aren't helping yourself here.  You really need to take your sucking up to a higher level.
[04:49] <nixternal> nobody likes me
[04:49] <nixternal> bah, if people ignore it, then it wasn't meant to be
[04:51] <jmg> nixternal: yech
[04:51] <jmg> nixternal: i upgraded a vista box to xp on friday :)
[04:51] <Hobbsee> nixternal: give htem a few days.  we're lazy people
[04:52] <nixternal> haha
[04:52] <nixternal> jmg: I thought about picking up a copy of Vista at school because for the home premium it is like $50
[04:52] <nixternal> just so I can fit in with Hobbsee and crimsun
[04:54] <jmg> nixternal: wait another 3 months and it will be in the bargain bin
[04:54] <nixternal> lol
[04:54] <nixternal> jmg: it already is
[04:54] <nixternal> our bookstore on campus has sold 1 copy
[04:55] <jmg> lololol
[04:55] <nixternal> they knocked it down to around 1/2 off
[04:55] <nixternal> all of the Ubuntu CDs and the Broke Student CDs fill up the tip jar there for the LUG
[04:55] <jmg> Broke Student CDs?
[04:56] <ajmitch> jmg: is the internet connectivity sucking for you as well?
[04:56] <jmg> ajmitch: yes
[04:56] <ajmitch> I wonder who broke stuff
[04:56] <nixternal> ya, they have like OOo and all kinds of open source apps for Windows and Mac OS
[04:57] <jmg> ajmitch: what isp are you on?
[04:57] <ajmitch> seems to be multiple upstreams, maybe someone tripped over the southern cross cable again
[04:57] <ajmitch> maxnet
[04:57] <jmg> this shell is on orcon
[04:57] <jmg> my home is on xnet
[04:57] <jmg> all affected
[04:57] <ajmitch> yeah, I'm connected to freenode with no problems
[04:58] <ajmitch> just 85% packetloss to the US, and high latency
[04:58] <jmg> i was noticing tcp sessions starting to fall to peices as early as tuesday
[04:58] <TheMuso> i don't seem to be having any problems here.
[04:58] <jmg> sprintlink
[04:58] <jmg> asianetcom is at capacity
[04:59] <jmg> my undernet session has dropped
[05:00] <ajmitch> oh well
[05:00] <TheMuso> Ok. I am guessing that my slow speed from revu is a result of the issue that tibre is having with hosting/connectivity etc.
[05:00] <ajmitch> TheMuso: yep
[05:00] <TheMuso> and not local issues.
[05:01] <ajmitch> serverpronto limiting it, apparantly
[05:01] <TheMuso> Painful.  Drivers?
[06:34] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:35] <Hobbsee> printers are evil in any OS
[06:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: responded
[06:35] <nixternal> I am watching a YouTube video on how these people made a screen printing setup for dirt cheap, and it looks good
[06:37] <LaserJock> printers work just fine for me in Linux
[06:38] <LaserJock> but the only driver that HP puts out for my printer is "Local Only"
[06:38] <Hobbsee> my old printer didnt work at all with linux
[06:39] <nixternal> thanks Hobbsee!
[06:39] <Hobbsee> so it got thrown out, eventually - no need for 3 printers in hte house.  mum came in, a few months ago, and says "oh, when are you going to throw the old printer out, if you're not using it?"
[06:39] <Hobbsee> nixternal: no problem :)
[06:39] <Hobbsee> you earned it
[06:39] <nixternal> HP is all I use, seeing as HP and Apple are the 2 biggest contributors to HPLIP
[06:39] <nixternal> just need 20 more people to say +1 ;p
[06:41] <nixternal> persia already drilled me with questions yesterday, he is going to give a "me too" eventually
[06:41] <nixternal> and ajmitch, who knows, I tried to bribe him yesterday, I was in the middle of convincing today, and he all of a sudden disappeared
[06:41] <crimsun> we don't accept bribes.  Openly.
[06:42] <nixternal> he did, but I didn't buy him lunch ;)
[06:42] <nixternal> he went hungry yesterday he said
[06:42] <ajmitch> nixternal: I never disappeared
[06:42] <nixternal> you passed out from hunger?
[06:42] <nixternal> ;)
[06:43] <ajmitch> more like slid my way down the hill
[06:43] <nixternal> ahhh, forgot about you and some snow today...
[06:43] <ajmitch> yeah, we're not really used to it here
[06:43] <nixternal> I have 5+ months before the snow comes back...I can't wait
[06:44] <ajmitch> Hobbsee, putting her life on the line
[06:44] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: as always.
[06:44] <ajmitch> :)
[06:44] <nixternal> snowballs!
[06:44] <ajmitch> back later, if I'm not in hospital
[06:45] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:45] <Hobbsee> good luck
[06:45] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: make sure, if you land in hospital, that htey dont pump arsenic into you.
[06:45] <LaserJock> I think I should put in my big -1 ;-)
[06:45] <LaserJock> we can't have mobster's in MOTU
[06:45] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:46] <Hobbsee> we cant have self-proclaimed vista lovers in MOTU, either.
[06:46] <nixternal> hey, I will take mobster over
[06:46] <nixternal> !nixternal
[06:46] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[06:46] <nixternal> any day!
[06:48] <nixternal> hehe
[06:48] <nixternal> chicken, and you have a long pointy stick!
[06:48] <nixternal> actually, have you seen the cases that Vista comes in? I bet they could hurt someone
[06:48] <Hobbsee> you havent seen what i sent to the ML yet, i presume...
[06:48] <nixternal> uh oh
[06:48] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:49] <nixternal> right as you said that, I seen the mailbox starting spinning
[06:51] <nixternal> wo0t...my upstream library guy is renaming his library...now the embedded guys better leave me alone! :)
[07:24] <LaserJock> arrrgggg
[07:35] <LaserJock> hmm, does a port scan usually take a while?
[07:35] <highvoltage> depends.
[07:35] <crimsun> depending on the options used, it can.
[07:35] <nixternal> depends on how you run it
[07:35] <highvoltage> if it's just an nmap <host> on a local network, it should go quite fast
[07:35] <nixternal> -sS -vv -O -P will make it take a while
[07:43] <highvoltage> ajmitch: whohoo!
[07:53] <LaserJock> anybody know where I could pick up some cheap Win 98 disks?
[07:54] <LaserJock> like real ones
[07:55] <LucidFox> LaserJock> what for?
[07:56] <LaserJock> I'd like to install Windows in vmware so I can finally wipe it off my hard drive
[07:57] <LaserJock> I've spent all evening trying to get the stupid thing to print
[07:57] <StevenK> I thought Windows 98 was no longer supported.
[07:58] <LaserJock> that would be some of the point I supose
[07:59] <LaserJock> I'd like to have a more "minimal" install
[07:59] <LaserJock> XP would do if it's cheap and legite
[08:09] <highvoltage> I bought a book that says "It's never to late to stop procrastinating".  :P
[08:20] <ajmitch> no
[08:21] <jussi01> wait one... :P
[08:21] <ajmitch> will I care?
[08:22] <jussi01> ajmitch: not really...
[08:22] <jussi01> it was just a wind up...
[08:22] <jussi01> http://www.fmi.fi/weather/local.html?Keywords=&kunta=Tampere
[08:23] <ajmitch> oh that
[08:56] <LaserJock> boy this is a great bug report "just playing and then all of a sudden it crashed."
[08:57] <jussi01> LaserJock: congrats on core dev
[08:57] <jussi01> I was just reading planet, that was correct right?
[08:58] <crimsun> what, you mean you can't fix the bug AND cure world hunger from that bug report?  Sheesh.  What kind of core-dev are you?!
[08:58] <ajmitch> crimsun: don't doubt the deity
[08:59] <LaserJock> jussi01: thanks
[08:59] <jussi01> :)
[08:59] <LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I waved my magic wand and it was done ;-)
[09:00] <LaserJock> actually, I'm finding the joys of the new "Incomplete" status
[09:01] <crimsun> nixternal: your "automagic lease" should be happy with the latest network-manager* uploads.
[09:01] <jussi01> crimsun grovelling? this must be some amazing deity...
[09:01] <crimsun> jussi01: it's the MOTU deity.  It goes without saying that they're amazing.
[09:01] <crimsun> I'm just some peon slaving on bug reports.
[09:01] <jussi01> :D
[09:05] <LaserJock> crimsun: I'm trying to slog through too, although not as well as you
[09:06] <LaserJock> I had to have bdmurray give me a little how-to today :-)
[09:06] <crimsun> nah, seb is the master slogger
[09:07] <crimsun> It used to be "Reject with impunity" - I guess it's "Invalid or Won't Fix with impunity"
[09:07] <TheMuso> pfft colour.
[09:10] <nixternal> woohoo
[09:11] <Fujitsu> Ew, football.
[09:11] <StevenK> It's at least AFL
[09:11] <jussi01> StevenK: who is playing?
[09:11] <StevenK> jussi01: Sydney Swans and Collingwood Magpies
[09:12] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Even worse.
[09:12] <jussi01> StevenK: ugh
[09:12] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh?
[09:12] <jussi01> Go WEST COAST!!
[09:12] <man-di_> Can someone tell me how often patches.ubuntu.com is updated?
[09:12] <StevenK> Oh geez, I'll bugger off and feel all unloved.
[09:12] <jussi01> lol
[09:12] <LaserJock> Swans and Magpies? and I thought US sports teams were named oddly
[09:13] <crimsun> man-di_: cjwatson and keybuk would know
[09:13] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: The full list should be at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_AFL_team_squads
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Hm, that doesn't have the associated animals/whatevers.
[09:14] <man-di_> crimsun: thx
[09:17] <LaserJock> US college teams are usually pretty funny
[09:17] <LaserJock> near me there is, I think it is, the Santa Cruz Banana Slugs
[09:17] <Fujitsu> How strange.
[09:18] <Fujitsu> We've got mostly conventional animals, except we've got the Demons and Bombers as well, AFAIK.
[09:18] <crimsun> better than the UCI Anteaters, I suppose.
[09:19] <talex_> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670 It's just a new upstream release; shouldn't be any problems.
[09:19] <LaserJock> oh yes, that Anteaters
[09:20] <LaserJock> there are a lot of weird California uni mascots
[09:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: well it's california...
[09:23] <LaserJock> my thoughts exactly
[09:24] <LaserJock> well, I've managed to "Incomplete" almost all of gcompris' 24 bugs
[09:26] <LaserJock> I gotta do a whole lota bug work to get anywhere close to crimsun's karma
[09:26] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Damn, I'm only 8th on the bug karma rank.
[09:28] <Fujitsu> I haven't touched more than a few bugs in the past couple of weeks, I guess.
[09:29] <LaserJock> bah
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Can I kill off bug #111405?
[09:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111405 in pcb "pcb window doesn't fit in 1024x768" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111405
[09:29] <crimsun> pssht. Look at seb's karma.
[09:30] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: you still have 6 times more karma than me
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Yeah, Seb's isn't bad.
[09:30] <LaserJock> and mine is 1/2 from specs :/
[09:30] <Fujitsu> He has like 8 times as much :(
[09:32] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Broken anything in main yet?
[09:32] <LaserJock> no
[09:32] <ajmitch> if he hasn't, he's not trying hard enough
[09:32] <crimsun> yeah, that's your real test ;-)
[09:33] <LaserJock> I'm working on triaging some bugs
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Bah, evil mayavi maintainer. Let's all use /usr/bin/python2.4 in our postinsts, and depend on python.
[09:33] <LaserJock> heh
[09:33] <LaserJock> so what's Confirmed supposed to be now?
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Whatever Triaged isn't.
[09:33] <LaserJock> heh, ok
[09:34] <Fujitsu> But nobody uses Triaged, because nobody's sure what it's for, and it isn't shown by default because somebody screwed up.
[09:34] <crimsun> that's...bloody.
[09:35] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Um?
[09:35] <crimsun> (I couldn't think of a word to proceed "bloody", so I just omitted.)
[09:35] <Fujitsu> Even so: Um?
[09:35] <crimsun> what's the use of Triaged if nobody's sure what it's for?
[09:36] <LaserJock> because we're "supposed" to know what it's for
[09:36] <LaserJock> our great bug overlords will enlighten us
[09:36] <crimsun> wait, aren't you our liaison to LP?
[09:36] <ajmitch> this is what we call working with the community
[09:36] <Fujitsu> "Triaged will mean that a bug has all the information attached to it that a developer needs to fix it. The 'confirmed' state was previously used for this purpose, but many users were 'confirming' bugs when observed by a second person."
[09:36] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yep, they're really neat like that.
[09:37] <Fujitsu> It's also neat how they notify their userbase of these changes.
[09:37] <LaserJock> crimsun: ssssshhh, don't bring that up
[09:37] <Fujitsu> -devel-discuss was the only place notified prior to the change... Not even launchpad-users.
[09:38] <LaserJock> well, I tell yeah. I was pretty "surprised" and not necessarily in a good way
[09:38] <LaserJock> I'm the MOTU liason to LP, I was at Sevilla, and talked with kiko and BjornT about status changes
[09:38] <LaserJock> and I had no idea that they were going to do that
[09:38] <DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, please don't fight the dictionary... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/confirmed
[09:39] <Fujitsu> Apparently they felt that UDS BoFs were enough community discussion.
[09:39] <LaserJock> I was only aware of a Rejected -> Invalid, Won't Fix
[09:39] <DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, maybe there should be a "confirmed" which would indicate that others can replicate and something else that marks that there is enough information for devs.
[09:39] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: I think that's what it's meant to mean now.
[09:40] <DarkMageZ> oh, misread :P
[09:41] <Fujitsu> Anyway, I hope the LP people have realised that a lot of people are most displeased at the lack of notification or discussion with the userbase. With any luck it'll improve in future.
[09:42] <LaserJock> well, I keep pushing for more "Tell us *before* it happens" but well, I haven't seen a lot of it
[09:42] <LaserJock> it took forever to get an announcement on launchpad-users
[09:43] <LaserJock> Revell really needs to get on top of those, IMO
[09:43] <Fujitsu> They probably thought it'd be a nice surprise for all their project maintainers to have any external tools broken and statuses renamed without notice.
[09:43] <Fujitsu> That is mrevell's job, isn't it?
[09:44] <LaserJock> yes
[09:45] <LaserJock> well, I'm sure it's not easy. Hopefully there was enough frustration with this status thing to get things changed a bit
[09:46] <LaserJock> perhaps new.launchpad.net will help
[09:46] <LaserJock> although if they can't say anything until it's been release then that's an issue
[09:49] <Fujitsu> The new release structure means they do know what's going to appear each month some weeks beforehand.
[09:49] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: What're you rsyncing?
[09:49] <ajmitch> bugs.d.o
[09:49] <Fujitsu> So I suspected.
[09:49] <ajmitch> first run for awhile
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Might take a little while.
[09:50] <Fujitsu> LP'
[09:50] <ajmitch> 524038 files to consider
[09:50] <Fujitsu> *LP's growing Debian bug imports in 1.1.7, I believe.
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[09:50] <ajmitch> it'll only have to rsync a fraction of that
[09:51] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if Malone also imported some kind of priority information.
[09:51] <ajmitch> some new indexes though
[09:51] <Fujitsu> s/priority/importance/
[09:51] <Fujitsu> indices!
[09:51] <ajmitch> it'd be nice if malone got some version tracking & bug dependencies, too
[09:51] <Fujitsu> Yeah, but that's asking a bit much.
[09:51] <ajmitch> both forms of the plural are acceptable
[09:51] <Fujitsu> They're doing really useful stuff like making pie charts of bugs! Wooohooo!
[09:52] <Fujitsu> Really useful.
[09:52] <LaserJock> bug dependencies are being worked on
[09:52] <ajmitch> yay!
[09:53] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: :O Really?
[09:53] <LaserJock> I don't know how much, but I've seen something
[09:53] <ajmitch> I talked with bjorn about versions at UDS, I don't think he was convinced though
[09:53] <Fujitsu> He needs to be convinced, then.
[09:53] <ajmitch> it's only a fairly recent feature in debbugs
[09:53] <LaserJock> what do you mean?
[09:53] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Right, but it grew that feature, so it must be useful.
[09:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's what I'm using for this rc bugs list - a bug is found in package version X, fixed in version Y
[09:54] <talex_> Is anyone free to review the zeroinstall-injector package? I uploaded 0.28 a while back, but it didn't get any comments. Then 0.29 came out and I uploaded a package for that: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670
[09:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ah, yeah
[09:55] <Fujitsu> apport is going to be maintaining its own version database. That's just stupid.
[09:55] <minghua> Using debbugs and malone are two completely different experiences for me
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Malone is good at some things, but it lacks some features (like dependencies and versioning) that makes debbugs useful.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> And the lack of priorities on Debian bug imports will limit the usefulness.
[09:59] <LaserJock> well, I can't remember what the rationale for not doing versions was
[09:59] <Fujitsu> Probably it'd make the UI too complicated, or something like that.
[09:59] <LaserJock> but knowing what version we fix something in is very useful
[09:59] <ajmitch> probably that a package version was distro-specific
[10:00] <ajmitch> so you'd need to match distro/version, and it'd complicate things with bug tasks on multiple distros
[10:00] <Fujitsu> We're going to need that feature eventually.
[10:01] <LaserJock> well, tbh, I just don't know how having multiple distros on the same bug tracker is really ever going to work very well
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Especially because LP is closed and controlled by a company with an obvious interest in one particular distro. Other distros would have to be crazy to use it.
[10:04] <LaserJock> well, a number of derivs already are
[10:05] <LaserJock> which causes oddities
[10:05] <Fujitsu> They're derivatives, though. Not distinct distros as such.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Like what?
[10:05] <LaserJock> like baltix tasks everywhere
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Oh, yes.
[10:06] <Fujitsu> That gets irritating.
[10:06] <LaserJock> and sometimes they sort of "bump" into each other
[10:06] <Fujitsu> The upstream linking is a good idea.
[10:09] <LaserJock> blah, 1am
[10:09] <LaserJock> time for me to go bed
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Night.
[10:10] <LaserJock> finally got the stupid printer to work
[10:10] <LaserJock> had to use a generic color laserjet driver for my PSC
[10:10] <Fujitsu> My PSC1210 works fine.
[10:13] <LaserJock> in Windows?
[10:13] <Fujitsu> Ahh, I've never tried it there.
[10:14] <Fujitsu> Probably because the drivers are like 200MB..
[10:14] <LaserJock> yeah, well I found the driver for it
[10:14] <LaserJock> but it *only* works with local printers
[10:15] <LaserJock> anyway, night all
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Another thing I'd like to see in LP is importing of Debian info for the Overview tab (as the bugs are coming soon), rather than having to head over to p.q.d.o or b.d.o
[10:19] <talex_> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670 It's just a new upstream release; shouldn't be any problems.
[10:23] <crimsun> I just uploaded it.
[10:24] <talex_> Thanks!
[10:31] <giskard_> Fujitsu, it should do this
[10:32] <giskard_> it should send message also when battery is critically low
[10:32] <Fujitsu> I left it for 30 seconds no more than 2 or 3 minutes after it gave me that warning, and came back to find the system half shutdown.
[10:32] <Fujitsu> Granted, my battery does only give 1.5 hours.
[10:37] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Still, that's not the behaviour I see.  g-p-m is quite happy to let me run my battery down to 3%.
[10:40] <Amaranth> sure, if you tell it to ignore time remaining and use the percentages
[10:40] <RAOF> I haven't actually *seen* that option, so I don't think I've changed it from default :)
[11:12] <RAOF> Just another ping about bug #121476.  I just want to make sure it's in a state where someone will look at it when they are in a sponsoring mood, and the packaging-in-bzr workflow is unfamiliar to me (and doesn't seem to be as well documented as debdiffing)
[11:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
[11:15] <Fujitsu> RAOF: I've looked at it, but I'm not familiar enough with the mplayer codebase to check the patch. Do you have a link to the email?
[11:19] <RAOF> Fujitsu: There's a link in the debian changelog.
[11:20] <RAOF> Here it is: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2007-March/001576.html
[11:20] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[11:21] <RAOF> I've also just pushed a revision that merges in the -ubuntu11 changes done after that branch was taken, so the tree should successfully merge with trunk as of now.
[11:22] <RAOF> Also, on a triaging note, is that how such a bug should be left?
[11:40] <siretart> ajmitch: sorry?
[11:41] <RAOF> siretart: He was talking about bug #121476
[11:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
[11:43] <ajmitch> siretart: Fujitsu was just mentioning that he didn't know the source well enough to comment much
[11:43] <siretart> RAOF: wow. that's quite a big patch. I'm not familiar with the code either.
[11:44] <TheMuso> Good ${Time_Of_Day} to you all.
[11:44] <siretart> RAOF: did you or the compiz guys talk to the mplayer devs about this?
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
[11:44] <RAOF> siretart: I didn't, and I don't know anyone who did.
[11:45] <siretart> RAOF: please /join #mplayer and do
[11:47] <siretart> RAOF: please hilight me if you do so I find it in the backlog. need to attend a bof now
[11:48] <RAOF> siretart: Certainly.
[12:47] <TheMuso> c
[12:47] <TheMuso> ugh
[12:49] <RAOF> TheMuso: Man, you're good at that :)
[12:53] <TheMuso> RAOF: Blame the software I have to use to do my computer tasks.
[12:54] <RAOF> Which is?
[12:55] <highvoltage> A poor workman always blames his fools
[12:55] <highvoltage> *tools
[12:55] <highvoltage> damn keyboard!
[12:57] <TheMuso> RAOF: Speakup mainly, but add my KVM to the mix, and things get messy.
[12:58] <RAOF> Ah.
[01:00] <TheMuso> yay! I now have a shared apt cache for all my sbuild/LVM chroots.
[01:00] <RAOF> Huzzah!
[01:14] <cbx33> hey RAOF
[01:27] <RAOF> cbx33: Hey :)
[01:38] <davromaniak> Hi
[01:39] <davromaniak> I have to package a program which uses gettext, does it needs special buildeps ??
[01:48] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: to work.  why?
[01:48] <Amaranth> ha
[01:48] <Amaranth> we had a troll in #ubuntu-devel
[01:48] <Hobbsee> yummy
[01:49] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:49] <Hobbsee> did they get him?
[01:49] <Amaranth> no, he left on his own
[01:50] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
[01:50] <cbx33> hey can someone help with a pacakge?
[01:51] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[01:51] <cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/files/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070601205206-xckyam97r3q4wedk
[01:52] <cbx33> can someone tell me how I would split out the svn and bzr py files in the plugins folder to be in seperate bniary debs
[01:52] <cbx33> but built from the same source deb
[01:52] <cbx33> the makefile is used to cater for py versions
[01:52] <cbx33> any takers?
[01:53] <RAOF> Put two binary packages in the control, and have different binary-pakcage-name.install files?
[01:53] <cbx33> well that's the plan
[01:53] <cbx33> but
[01:54] <cbx33> hmmm
[01:54] <cbx33> the makefile complicates the issue I think
[01:54] <RAOF> Which makefile?
[01:55] <cbx33> in the root of the dirs
[01:55] <cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/annotate/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070601205206-xckyam97r3q4wedk?file_id=makefile-20070510150748-m3hnibdgz7gz3czl-1
[01:55] <RAOF> I don't see how that could complicate... oh.
[01:55] <RAOF> Ah, yes.
[01:55] <RAOF> Still, I think it should just work
[01:55] <cbx33> oh
[01:56] <cbx33> hmmm
[01:56] <cbx33> those files are not installed by the vcsfrenzy.install file though
[01:57] <RAOF> Actually, why do you have that makefile again?
[01:58] <cbx33> to deal with different versions of python
[01:58] <cbx33> so it gets put in the right site-packages folder
[01:58] <RAOF> But you're not building extension modules at all, and python-support should do the site-packages for you, no?
[01:59] <cbx33> ok
[01:59] <cbx33> but if someone has py2.4 or 2.5
[01:59] <cbx33> how do we know where to install it?
[01:59] <RAOF> You don't, that's the whole point of python-support.
[01:59] <cbx33> hmmm
[02:00] <cbx33> oh
[02:00] <RAOF> python-support bytecompiles your modules into every appropriate site-packages location.
[02:00] <cbx33> ogra, showed me this way of doing it
[02:00] <cbx33> so
[02:00] <cbx33> where should they be installed?
[02:00] <cbx33> if I was to use .install fils
[02:01] <RAOF> man dh_pysupport is probably what you're after.
[02:01] <cbx33> ok
[02:01] <cbx33> gtg
[02:01] <RAOF> So, everything goes into /usr/share/python-support
[02:01] <cbx33> right
[02:01] <cbx33> thanks RAOF
[02:01] <RAOF> NP :)
[02:01] <cbx33> looking forward to working with you
[02:01] <RAOF> You too.
[02:06] <davromaniak> how can I do to "force" a version of GCC for a package ??
[02:07] <RAOF> Add it in the build-depends?
[02:07] <RAOF> I presume you mean something like gcc 3.4, gcc 4.2, etc?  Not simply a specific pakcage version of the default gcc?
[02:09] <RAOF> davromaniak: And then you need to teach the buildsystem to use the specific gcc.  You can probably do that by setting the CC variable to what you want (CC=gcc-3.4 , for example), but that depends on the actual build system your package source has.
[02:09] <davromaniak> ok
[02:10] <davromaniak> I am testing it, thx
[02:32] <jekil> if in my sw.orig.tar there is a lot of .svn dir, the right way is delete this in rules right?
[02:33] <RAOF> Bad upstream, no biscuit.
[02:34] <RAOF> You might want to just repack the tarball, no?
[02:35] <jekil> the source that i can download are these
[02:35] <stgraber> In that case you can take the .tar.gz from them, remove the .svn dir, then repack it and put a line like "Removed all .svn from original .tar.gz + repacked" in the changelog
[02:35] <stgraber> at least that's how I recently did with a .tar.gz from upstream containing .git dirs
[02:36] <jekil> ok, thanks
[02:36] <jekil> i am asking here because i read in all documentation "you can't modify orig.tar.gz"
[02:37] <stgraber> well, if you want to modify the source code or things like that you have to use patches, but removing repository dirs or existing debian/ dirs are ok as soon as you say so in the changelog
[02:37] <jekil> ok, thanks a lot
[02:44] <jekil> and if i have a foo.tar.gz, if i extract that i have foo-3.3 but software and package in named bar, i must rename the dir and the tar.gz?
[02:50] <RAOF> jekil: Is upstream really that confused?  Urgh.
[02:50] <RAOF> jekil: What package, incidentally?
[02:51] <jekil> metasploit
[02:51] <jekil> the software is metasploti, but the tar is framework-3.0.tar.gz that conteins framework-3.0
[02:52] <jekil> so, i must rename it?
[02:52] <RAOF> I've never had to deal with that, so I'm not sure.
[02:54] <DarkMageZ> the ubuntu packaging guide says to never modify the content of a .tar.gz unless absolutally nessesary. i don't think the change in this case is an exception.
[02:56] <tarzeau> here's how: http://people.debian.org/~daniel//documents/packaging.html
[02:56] <tarzeau> (it's how debian does it, but i think it also applies to ubuntu in a way or another)
[03:01] <DarkMageZ> jekil, i'd recommend in the control section of your package. set the source as framework and package as metaspolit :P
[03:02] <jekil> DarkMageZ: great, thanks
[03:22] <siretart> StevenK: around?
[03:23] <StevenK> siretart: Yup. What's up?
[03:24] <siretart> StevenK: I'm currently at a lintian bof at debconf7. can you give me a status update about linda's status?
[03:25] <siretart> StevenK: what are your plans with linda?
[03:25] <StevenK> siretart: Plans? What plans?
[03:25] <siretart> StevenK: ah, I see :)
[03:25] <StevenK> siretart: I haven't really got any at this point.
[03:26] <siretart> ok
[03:27] <StevenK> siretart: Suggestions, bribes and donations all gratefully recieved.
[03:31] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: I dont think there's anything to bug 121873. I just installed wacom-kernel-source on 2 Ubuntu Studio and 1 Ubuntu machines no problem. If they dont add info over the next week Im gonna make it invalid.
[03:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121873 in wacom-tools "ununtustudio: wacom-kernel-source cannot be installed through synaptic" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121873
[03:34] <Hobbsee> _MMA_: cool.  go ahead :)
[03:43] <polopolo> hello all, what does a MOTU with backports?
[03:45] <Hobbsee> polopolo: poke jdong about it, and test that the proposed backported app works in the release wanted
[03:48] <polopolo> ok
[03:49] <polopolo> thank you Hobbsee, I gonna reinstall kubuntu
[03:49] <Hobbsee> no problem
[03:50] <polopolo> yeah, I #!@# my sources.list
[03:51] <Hobbsee> oh dear
[03:52] <polopolo> Hobbsee, maby does not make care, but should I first install debian 4.0 and then kubuntu 7.04, or otherwize?
[03:52] <Hobbsee> polopolo: are you wanting to run kubuntu or debian?
[03:53] <polopolo> yes, kubuntu for personal and package use, and debian for package use :P
[03:53] <Hobbsee> right...i suspect you want to run a pbuilder
[03:53] <Hobbsee> !pbuilder
[03:53] <ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[03:53] <Hobbsee> and install kubuntu
[03:54] <polopolo> pbuilder?!
[03:54] <Hobbsee> for package use
[03:54] <Hobbsee> depends what exact package use you want
[03:54] <Hobbsee> or you could dual boot, of course
[03:54] <polopolo> :D
[03:54] <Hobbsee> you cant run both debian and kubuntu at the same time
[03:55] <polopolo> I know it, I now use windows xp and kubuntu on dual boot
[03:57] <polopolo> I gonna first install debian and then kubuntu, bye all
[03:57] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[03:57] <polopolo> TheMuso: Night
[05:13] <highvoltage> I'm following the walkthrough on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
[05:13] <highvoltage> and when I do the debuild -S -sa, it says:
[05:13] <highvoltage> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[05:13] <highvoltage> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk: No such file or directory
[05:14] <highvoltage> and some more of that... seems like I negleted to install a package?
[05:14] <nixternal> you have cdbs in build-deps?
[05:14] <nixternal> or rather, installed locally
[05:14] <geser> sudo apt-get install cdbs
[05:14] <nixternal> hehe
[05:14] <nixternal> ya
[05:15] <highvoltage> ok, will do
[05:18] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: install cdbs
[05:18] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: got it, thanks!
[05:18] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:20] <highvoltage> I looked at debuild --help, but id doesn't say what the -S and -sa does. what does it do?
[05:20] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: use man debuild
[05:20] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: -S == source, -sa == upload the source tarball too
[05:20] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: whereas -sd == upload the .diff.gz, .dsc, .source_changes only
[05:21] <highvoltage> aaah
[05:21] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:21] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: thanks
[05:21] <Hobbsee> no problem
[05:23] <nixternal> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k<key_id>
[05:23] <nixternal> ;)
[05:23] <nixternal> I have that in a file called nixit
[05:23] <nixternal> hehe
[05:29] <highvoltage> nixternal: heh
[05:30] <Hobbsee> nixternal: mine's called origbuild
[05:30] <Hobbsee> ther'es also revubuild
[05:30] <Hobbsee> which is s/-sa/-sd/
[05:31] <nixternal> hmm, good idea with the revubuild one
[05:35] <persia> Does anyone have an opinion on the value of a merge from Debian when the changes in the Debian package represent a subset of the changes already applied in the Ubuntu package?
[05:35] <persia> My preference is to wait until there is either a new update to the Debian package, or another bugfix update required for the Ubuntu package, but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had a preference or thought it needed MOTU meeting discussion before altering the wiki.
[05:37] <RainCT> Adri2000: what's missing on the Sync?
[05:37] <RainCT> Adri2000: ah ok, Debian's new changelog entries?
[05:37] <RainCT> Adri2000: or what?
[05:40] <Adri2000> RainCT: yes, but wait, it seems that someone uploaded it
[05:40] <RainCT> yep, there's a 0.7.6-3
[05:41] <Adri2000> in ubuntu I mean
[05:41] <Adri2000> a -3build1
[05:41] <Adri2000> because actually a *fake*sync was needed
[05:42] <RainCT> ye,s * Fake sync with Debian (different orig.tar.gz)
[05:42] <Adri2000> so you can close your sync request
[05:42] <RainCT> then that's why there were those 2 files M-o-M complained about?
[05:43] <Adri2000> maybe, and I think I told you the orig tarballs were the same. in this case I was wrong :)
[05:43] <geser> which package?
[05:43] <Adri2000> gfax
[05:43] <RainCT> gfax
[05:46] <geser> RainCT: I guess that were changes that MoM could apply, like the Maintainer change but the Debian maintainer changed or something like that
[05:46] <Adri2000> geser: MoM reported conflicts on .gmo files iirc
[05:46] <geser> oh
[05:49] <Adri2000> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gfax/gfax_0.7.6.orig.tar.gz doesn't not contain any po/*.gmo, while ubuntu's orig tarball does
[05:50] <Adri2000> s/not //
[05:50] <Adri2000> that explains MoM's output
[05:50] <RainCT> are this .gmo files actually needed for anything?
[05:51] <jerome_> hello
[05:51] <jerome_> I would like to have access to revu
[05:51] <jerome_> I have a launchpad account and n uploaded gpg key
[05:52] <persia> jerome_: Have you joined the launchpad group (ubuntu-universe-contributors)?
[05:52] <Adri2000> RainCT: they are created during the build process, and shouldn't be shipped in the orig tarball. upstream tarball ships them, and the debian maintainer probably removed them
[05:52] <jerome_> persia : yes
[05:52] <persia> jerome_: OK.  It should take 10-15 minutes then :)
[05:53] <jerome_> persia : thank you
[05:53] <RainCT> Adri2000: ok, so the normal sync would have been ok?
[05:54] <Adri2000> RainCT: no, because our orig.tar.gz is different from the orig.tar.gz in Debian (since the debian maintainer made changes to it)
[05:55] <Adri2000> when a tarball of a given upstream version is in the archive, it cannot be changed without changing the upstream version number
[05:56] <RainCT> Adri2000: ah ok, it's uploaded automatically?
[05:58] <Adri2000> RainCT: hmm?
[05:59] <RainCT> Adri2000: are new upstream tarballs uploaded automatically to the archive?
[06:03] <Adri2000> we upload the orig.tar.gz only when it's a new upstream version, when it's just a change to the packaging, we don't. but the size and the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz are written in the .dsc. therefore, even if we do not upload the orig.tar.gz, the upload can be rejected saying "md5sum mismatch of the orig tarball". that what would have happened if an archive admin had tried to process your sync request : the md5sum written in the debian .dsc
[06:05] <Adri2000> and a fakesync is, basically: get the debian package, replace the debian orig tarball with our orig tarball, recreate the source package so that the .dsc contains the size and the md5sum of our orig tarball
[06:05] <persia> jerome_: The keys are now synchronised.  Please try an upload, and let me know if it doesn't work.
[06:06] <jerome_> persia : when I try to login on revu I get : ogin for user<EMAIL_ADDRESS>failed, please retry or recover
[06:06] <persia> jerome_: Have you uploaded anything yet?
[06:06] <jerome_> no
[06:07] <jerome_> but i thought i had to register before
[06:07] <persia> jerome_: That's the problem then :)  REVU doesn't let you log in until you have uploaded something.  You do need to register first (by joining the launchpad team, and asking someone to sync the keys)m but that's done now :)
[06:07] <jerome_> ah ok
[06:08] <jerome_> now i can use dput ?
[06:08] <persia> jerome_: I believe it should work.  Please try, and let me know if there is a problem.
[06:08] <jerome_> persia ok
[06:08] <RainCT> Adri2000: ok thanks
[06:13] <jerome_> persia : the checking signature fails
[06:13] <jerome_> it says no valid Openpgp data available
[06:13] <persia> jerome_: which package?
[06:14] <jerome_> (I'm translating from french)
[06:14] <jerome_> python-soya
[06:14] <jerome_> persia : i tried to upload the .changes file
[06:17] <jerome_> persia : is it a problem with revu or with not signing the file correctly ?
[06:18] <persia> jerome_: Hmmm.  Double translation can be confusing.  Is your error closer to ""Error verifying signature on %s" or "Can't verify signature on %s ... (something about PGP)"?  If it's nothing like either of these, please pastebin the error.
[06:18] <persia> jerome_: I think it's a problem with signing the file.  By the way, which bug are you working on?
[06:19] <jerome_> persia : this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soya/+bug/117840
[06:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117840 in soya "Wishlist: Update python-soya package" [Wishlist,In progress]
[06:20] <jerome_> persia : output > http://pastebin.ca/586006
[06:24] <persia> jerome_: Thanks for that.  There are two issues at hand: firstly that the .changes file is not signed, and secondly that REVU requires source uploads, rather than binary uploads.  I would recommend building a source package with `debuild -S -sa` from the package directory, and then uploading the source.changes file.
[06:25] <persia> Note that if you have not already done so, you will need to set DEBEMAIL in your environment.
[06:25] <jerome_> persia : in bashrc ?
[06:26] <jerome_> persia : ok i understood why i was wrong
[06:26] <persia> jerome_: Some people put it in .bashrc, but you can also do it from the command line, either with export or inline with debuild, or add it to any other sourced file in your environment.
[06:26] <jerome_> i tried to upload the result of my pbuilder build
[06:26] <jerome_> now it works
[06:27] <jerome_> persia : thanks a lot
[06:28] <persia> jerome_: You report "it works", but I don't see a python-soya upload.  Which is working (or am I missing something)?
[06:28] <jerome_> i've just uploaded it
[06:28] <jerome_> and just got :
[06:28] <jerome_> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
[06:28] <jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
[06:28] <jerome_>   soya_0.13.1.orig.tar.gz: done.
[06:28] <jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
[06:28] <jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[06:29] <jerome_> Successfully uploaded packages.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> jerome_: are you a MOTU?
[06:29] <jerome_> hobbsee : not yet...
[06:29] <Hobbsee> jerome_: then you uploaded it to the wrong place
[06:29] <persia> jerome_: Ah.  You'll get a reject soon (you uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com).  Try {dput revu python-soya*ource.changes`.
[06:30] <jerome_> mmm ok i modified dput.cf in the wrong section0
[06:30] <persia> jerome_: On the other hand, it appears you have solved all the signing issues :)
[06:30] <jerome_> :)
[06:32] <jerome_> persia : ok this time i uploaded to revu :)
[06:34] <beuno> aaaaalright...  I'm feaaling packagingee today, what can I help with?
[06:35] <persia> jerome_: I see soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes uploaded.  It should be processed in the next 5 minutes or so.  Once it appears on REVU, you can "recover" your newly assigned password as described on the login failure page.
[06:35] <jerome_> persia : ok thank you
[06:36] <jerome_> i got to go now
[06:36] <Adri2000> beuno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO ... but it seems that the links are broken, so you can help updating the links ;)
[06:36] <jerome_> thank you for your help
[06:36] <persia> jerome_: Please also attach the output of `diff -urN` on the two debian directories to the bug to aid in reviewing, and add a comment to REVU indicating to which bug this upload applies.
[06:37] <jerome_> persia : ok i will do the diff tomorrow cause i got to go
[06:37] <jerome_> but will add the comment
[06:38] <beuno> Adri2000: anything specific you would prefer me to focus on?  as in packaging something specific
[06:40] <Adri2000> beuno: what you prefer: there are programs to package, new upstream versions to package. on the bug side, there are tags with bitesize (easy) bugs and packaging bugs
[06:40] <beuno> Adri2000: cool, I'll grab an RFP and go with that then
[06:45] <jussi01> hello everyone!
[06:45] <AndyP> what do we do if upstream already has a debian directory but the package still needs packaging for ubuntu (or debian)?
[06:45] <AndyP> hi jussi01
[06:46] <jussi01> hiya AndyP
[06:46] <jussi01> AndyP: smack upstream?
[06:46] <jussi01> :P
[06:46] <AndyP> i've tried, no reply :/
[06:47] <AndyP> (where smack == ask them about their intentions wrt debian)
[06:47] <jussi01> hehe, nice
[06:47] <persia> AndyP: Is the upstream debian/ directory useful, or does it contain lots of .ex files, etc.?
[06:48] <AndyP> persia: looks quite clean at first glance
[06:50] <persia> AndyP: In that case, I'd recommend just modifying the files as you need for your packaging purposes (aligning with upstream regarding debhelper vs. CDBS, etc. is often also a good idea), and adding a debian/README.Debian-source reporting that upstream ships a debian/ directory, and you have modified is considerably.
[06:51] <AndyP> persia: ok will do, thanks
[06:52] <persia> AndyP: The most important things are usually to wipe debian/changelog (upstreams often have several versions, none of which were ever released), triple-check debian/copyright (upstreams rarely have much experience with this), and to carefully review debian/control to make sure that the package is broken correctly (-data for large usr/share, libfoo / libfoo-dev for libraries, etc.).
[06:52] <jussi01> persia: question: do I listen to you or ScottK? :D (take a glance at mnemosyne on revu if you dont know what im on about)
[06:52] <persia> s/broken/split/
[06:53] <persia> jussi01: About python, ScottK is 99% more likely to be right, but I'll take a look now to see what you mean.
[06:53] <jussi01> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5626
[06:54] <jussi01> if it helps
[06:55] <AndyP> persia: ok, noted
[06:58] <persia> jussi01: Ah.  In this case, we're both correct.  If mnemosyne is to be a new replacement for memaid, I'm correct.  If it is intended to be a parallel install, ScottK is correct.  I'd recommend contacting both upstreams and the Debian memaid maintainer to get input on whether memaid is still a useful package and maintained as open-source.  If it is, the you probably want a parallel installation, so follow ScottK's advice.  If not, and the packages
[06:58] <persia> If it is, the you probably want a parallel installation, so follow ScottK's advice.  If not, and the packages are broadly the same (likely, with that much code similarity), and the Debian maintainer agrees, replacement is probably a good idea.  If you're still unsure after investigating, send a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>asking for more opinions and including the results of your research.
[06:59] <jussi01> persia: ok. Thank you.
[06:59] <persia> Personally, I think a replacement seems right, but coordinating with Debian for this is best (and I don't use memaid, so my opinion isn't very strong).
[07:02] <ScottK> jussi01: Where you would HAVE to replace it is if you installed files with the same names in the same places.
[07:02] <jussi01> hmmmm, just reading the memaid site, and its no longer maintained....
[07:02] <jussi01> http://memaid.sourceforge.net/
[07:03] <ScottK> jussi01: Imagine you're a memaid user who wants to try out mnemosyne.  How happy would you be if installing the new program removed the old one.
[07:04] <jussi01> aha...good point...
[07:04] <persia> jussi01: That's why I think a transition is good, but Scott raises a good point: specifically that having packages in only in Ubuntu that conflict with a Debian package can lead to confusion.
[07:05] <persia> ScottK: I think this case is like gaim -> pidgin: the name changed, but the code (and API) are nearly the same.  Couldn't this be addressed with some maintainer scripts to process any affected configuration files (and appropriate notes in debian/control)?
[07:05] <persia> (assuming it is well coordinated with Debian)
[07:05] <ScottK> persia: I think it's not.  I think it's more like Seamonkey/Firefox.
[07:06] <ScottK> You've got essentially a new program that provides the same function as the old one, but with a substantially different code base.
[07:07] <ScottK> persia: In this case I think the user base is likely small enough that it's safe just to let it install in parallel and not sweat it.
[07:07] <persia> ScottK: No so substantially different.  The APIs are the same, and a large number of files distributed in memaid are earlier versions (by the mnemosyne author) of the files in mnemosyne.
[07:07] <ScottK> Right, but we install them (I think) in different locations so there is no actual conflict.
[07:08] <persia> ScottK: In general, I prefer to dispose of older packages that are no longer maintained upstream, if there is a current open codebase for essentially the same thing.
[07:08] <persia> ScottK: That's true.  Perhaps a transition release?  Both for gutsy, and move to only mnemosyne for gutsy+1?  The issue here is that nobody is fixing bugs in memaid (except, maybe, the Debian maintainer).
[07:08] <ScottK> persia: I agree.  I think the right thing to do here is let them install in parallel and then at some point in the future file a removal request for memaid (that would be when I'd make mnemosyne replace memaid).
[07:09] <ScottK> Right.
[07:09] <persia> jussi01: Please listed to ScottK, specifically, the latest comment.  This is the correct way to do it :)
[07:09] <ScottK> It shouldn't be that hard for jussi01 to get his package into Debian either.
[07:10] <persia> jussi01: Also, do coordinate with Debian, as it would be of great benefit to Ubuntu if Debian also was transitioning this package.
[07:10] <jussi01> persia: ok, thank you both for your time
[07:10] <ScottK> jussi01: Once we get your package into Ubuntu, I'll help you get it into Debian (I'm not a DD, but have gotten through the process).
[07:11] <jussi01> ScottK: excellent! thanks a lot.
[07:12] <jussi01> ok, Im heading out to the shop. Thank you ScottK and persia.
[07:12] <persia> Ah.  memaid is maintained by Debian QA: they would probably be happy to drop the package, with a reasonable replacement.
[07:13] <ScottK> Yes.
[07:14] <AndyP> persia: should i mention all of my changes to the upstream debian/* files or would "* Packaged for Ubuntu based on upstream's debian dir (Fixes LP #120213)" be sufficient?
[07:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120213 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gmusicbrowser missing in repositories" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120213
[07:16] <AndyP> since it's pretty much the initial packaging, i don't think the detail matters too much really
[07:16] <persia> AndyP: That's probably sufficient for a start.  I'd recommend also adding additional entries if you need to apply any patches, need to make any significant changes to install locations, or need to change how the package is split into multiple binaries (if this applies), etc.  This way whoever updates to the next new upstream will have an easier time.
[07:17] <AndyP> persia: right, makes sense
[07:18] <ScottK> AndyP: I think that minimally it's OK, but that it'd be nice for whoever looks at the package later to be able to at least generally reconstruct what you did and why.
[07:18] <persia> AndyP: Also, I agree that the details of the specific changes against upstream debian/ are not important: but the details of any of your work beyond the standard generate some files and watch it work are important.
[07:18] <ScottK> persia: Are you OK with mnemosyne as is?  There's a comment from dholbach that he uploaded it, but I don't see that he actually did.
[07:19] <persia> ScottK: AndyP has already requested upstream to delete debian/.  Do we need to track local changes to this inthe changelog pending upstream removing it (if they are willing)?
[07:19] <persia> ScottK: It got rejected by the archive admins due to copyright confusion with memaid.  The package is fine, but it needs research and documentation to build sufficient case for inclusion in the archive.
[07:19] <ScottK> Once you know it's going away, I'd say no, but in the meantime, I think it's good.
[07:20] <ScottK> persia: OK.
[07:20] <persia> ScottK: OK
[07:20] <ScottK> So far when I've asked upstream to remove debian dir, they always say no.
[07:24] <persia> ScottK: Odd.  I've had success (by proxy) with a couple now.  Depends on upstream, I guess.
[07:25] <ScottK> OTOH, the guy that I've had trouble with does very good debian dirs, so it's not a big problem.  Mostly I just have to swap out debian/changelog.
[07:27] <persia> ScottK: That's probably why.  The ones I've seen needed significant changes (different package split, not using debian/patches for upstream changes, using an upstream Makefile instead of debian/rules, etc.).
[07:28] <AndyP> to be fair i've only given the upstream author 4 days to reply so far but i've been looking for an excuse to de-rustify my packaging skills and even if i get it packaged nicely i'll wait a few more days before uploading it to REVU
[07:30] <persia> AndyP: No need to wait on REVU.  If you're expecting a new upstream soon (or hoping for one), please add comment stating that this is not a candidate for upload, just a candidate for review.  This way you can collect more comments that might get into the new upstream (copyright seems most common for this).
[07:33] <AndyP> persia: ah great, that'll be very useful :)
[07:36] <AndyP> guess i should read the debian perl policy now
[08:40] <AndyP> this package is currently installing a png and using it as the menu icon but lintian says it should be an xpm - should i convert it and put the xpm in the debian dir or is there some small png->xpm tool i could build-depend on and use during the build?
[08:41] <persia> AndyP: It's best to convert during the packaging, and then install both .xpm and .png.  The conversion tool you want is `convert` from imagemagick.
[08:42] <AndyP> persia: ok, thanks
[09:07] <AndyP> well, i guess the upstream debian packaging wasn't as clean as i thought it was at first glance
[09:46] <AndyP> hmm, postinst is being generated automatically (i.e. i haven't created them manually) but lintian is still saying "maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst" - can i ignore that?
[09:46] <AndyP> s/them/it/
[09:47] <AndyP> i think dh_installmenu is generating it
[09:49] <AndyP> ah.. i guess i need to create stubs with #DEBHELPER# in them
[10:09] <tsmithe> are there any revu admins around?
[10:10] <tsmithe> i need ubuntustudio-artwork archiving :)
[10:10] <tsmithe> (ubuntustudio-look replaces it)
[10:11] <crimsun> archived.
[10:11] <tsmithe> thanks lots :)
[10:11] <tsmithe> crimsun, able to do a review for me?
[10:11] <tsmithe> (or some reviews, if at all possible :) )
[10:12] <crimsun> in a bit (~10 mins)
[10:13] <tsmithe> cool :)
[10:13] <tsmithe> could you look at ubuntustudio-sounds and ubuntustudio-look, please, crimsun?
[10:14] <tsmithe> (and if at all possible usplash-theme-ubuntustudio)
[10:16] <crimsun> argh
[10:16] <crimsun> if I find this DanBishop, I will smite him
[10:16] <man-di> crimsun: why?
[10:17] <crimsun> assigning without providing details == frustration
[10:18] <man-di> crimsun: oh
[10:22] <Burgundavia> slomo_: how goes the soc work?
[11:17] <AndyP> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5716 - gmusicbrowser's up for review if anyone's bored... i'm in no hurry to get it accepted though
[11:19] <somerville32> AndyP, I'm not a MOTU but I can take a look for you
[11:19] <crimsun> kinda funny to prod for revus if you're not in any hurry to get it accepted :p
[11:20] <somerville32> Andyp: And you should tell upstream not to put debian/ in their tarballs
[11:20] <AndyP> crimsun: hey it was persia's idea :)
[11:20] <crimsun> sure, blame the guy whose client is offline
[11:21] <somerville32> hehe
[11:21] <crimsun> (meaning not in here ;)
[11:21] <AndyP> somerville32: i tried contacting them - no answer yet (i had this conversation earlier with persia)
[11:21] <somerville32> AndyP, You could just delete it yourself then
[11:21] <AndyP> somerville32: as i said, we discussed this and persia said i could base my packaging on the existing debian dir
[11:22] <somerville32> Why do you need upstream's ok?
[11:23] <AndyP> i don't... i just wanted to ask them to remove it, and ask them if they were going to submit it to debian or ubuntu themselves
[11:24] <AndyP> i'd prefer to cooperate with people than step on their toes :) (plus it'd be less work for me if they did it themselves ;)
[11:30] <crimsun> tsmithe: RE: -sounds: we distribute the Artistic under /usr/share/common-licenses/ as well.  The additional clause may be problematic.  I leave that to the archive admins.
[11:31] <crimsun> tsmithe: (thus, please prepare a new upload with that change regarding /usr/share/common-licences/Artistic in debian/copyright)
[11:31] <crimsun> hello Chris
[11:31] <tsmithe> crimsun, yes, but the licence included was an older version, so i decided to use the included version than risk any changes
[11:32] <crimsun> tsmithe: including it is fine, just make sure to note that /usr/share/common-licences/Artistic does exist.
[11:33] <tsmithe> right sure
[11:33] <calc> if the license is verbatim what is in common-licenses it can save space to just refer to it
[11:33] <tsmithe> it's not, thought :)
[11:33] <calc> depends on if the fs has tail reuse on
[11:33] <calc> or whatever its called tail packing, etc
[11:34] <calc> but even then it may only save 1-2MB on a system with lots of packages
[11:35] <tsmithe> *though
[11:36] <crimsun> hmm, we should distutils asoundconf-ui
[11:36] <tsmithe> mmm
[11:37] <crimsun> oh, while you're here, I noticed that ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf is written on every combobox activation
[11:37] <crimsun> (in displaygtk.py)
[11:38] <tsmithe> it is? oh... that needs fixing
[11:38] <crimsun> that seems a bit excessive IMO.
[11:38] <tsmithe> yep
[11:39] <crimsun> what I do is enable "Apply"  ("Close" in the -gtk case, it seems) only upon activation, and then clicking Apply invokes the writeConf() method, which will then disable the Apply pushbutton upon writeConf()'s success
[11:40] <tsmithe> yes, but i want it to be always closable with that button, and i'd like to ensure that the changes are applied when that button is pressed
[11:40] <tsmithe> in case something funky happened with the combobox change
[11:40] <crimsun> right, so your Close likely needs a hook
[11:41] <crimsun> I skirt the issue completely by removing "Close" and having the user use the window manager's Close
[11:42] <crimsun> it's not very good UI, but I'm not sure if KDE apps normally have a Quit PushButton, too
[11:42] <tsmithe> heh, i think it's nice having a tabbable button, rather than pressing alt-f4, or having to move the mouse up to the corner ;)
[11:43] <crimsun> if it turns out that KDE apps do have Quit, then I'll just rewire the logic
[11:44] <tsmithe> heh - it's not like it's particularly tricky :)
[11:44] <crimsun> it's better UI, anyhow, but I don't want to kill consistency
[11:44] <tsmithe> good point
[11:46] <somerville32> AndyP, Are you sure you should be changing upstream's changelog?
[11:46] <somerville32> AndyP, I would personally keep it


[00:56] <mup> Bug #1464600 changed: Juju 1.22.5: pending LXC containers <cloud-installer> <landscape> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.22:Triaged by cherylj> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464600>