[12:12] <LaserJock> heh, I caused my first core dump, how lovely
[12:12] <herzi> nice
[12:12] <herzi> how did you do it?
[12:13] <LaserJock> not sure
[12:13] <LaserJock> just put in a function I shouldn't have
[12:13] <imbrandon> blah(int) { int / 0 };
[12:13] <imbrandon> ?
[12:13] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:15] <LaserJock> no
[12:16] <LaserJock> could of been an infinite loop
[12:16] <LaserJock> not sure
[12:16] <imbrandon> a infinate loop wouldent cause a core would it ? well it could run out of memory i guess
[12:17] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[12:17] <LaserJock> it just sat there an chugged away on something for a couple seconds and then dumped
[12:18] <newz2000> oh, btw, you can use tiber again. :-D It was down for severals hours but is back now.
[12:18] <imbrandon> newz2000, rockin, thanks
[12:18] <newz2000> Still on old kernel though.
[12:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ping
[12:22] <geser> imbrandon: if he loops over an data structure and tries to access beyond it, it will certainly segfault
[12:22] <imbrandon> geser, true
[12:22] <imbrandon> off by one ? heh
[12:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yessir?
[12:23] <imbrandon> 2 things, one , do you know about how they handle security on the porter machines >?
[12:23] <imbrandon> i'm working on the farm spec some more
[12:27] <imbrandon> and 2 can you re-fixup ( import ) my login keys for tiber ( now that its back up )
[12:31] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea, and possibly, if I can login
[12:32] <ajmitch> your new ssh key is on launchpad?
[12:32] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yup
[12:32] <ajmitch> which one? :)
[12:33] <imbrandon> one is my laptop and one my desktop , use the laptop one please ( intrepid )
[12:33] <imbrandon> thats the one i will eventualy set my desktop up to use
[12:34] <ajmitch> I just copied both, try & login
[12:34] <imbrandon> k
[12:35] <imbrandon> works
[12:35] <imbrandon> thanks
[12:36] <sivang> imbrandon: what's the porter machine?
[12:36] <ajmitch> sivang: debian machines
[12:36] <imbrandon> sivang, debian machines
[01:09] <rmjb>  -> Considering  debhelper (>= <IP_ADDRESS>)
[01:09] <rmjb>       Tried versions: 5.0.7ubuntu13
[01:09] <rmjb>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
[01:10] <rmjb> shouldn't that dependency be met?
[01:11] <imbrandon> 37 > 7
[01:11] <sivang> so anyway, u-m-l is now kernel-patch-uml ?
[01:12] <rmjb> oh, okay
[01:12] <sivang> (hence all pakcages depending on it should now depend on this instead)
[01:12] <sivang> like guml, for instance
[01:17] <shawarma> user-mode-linux is not available in Ubuntu, afaik.
[01:17] <shawarma> It wouldn't make sense to have it as a kernel-patch- package since it's included in mainline kernel these days.
[01:18] <shawarma> Anything depending on it will have to wait until edgy+1.
[01:19] <shawarma> I discussed this with BenC earlier today. He told me to write a spec about it: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/user-mode-linux
[01:20] <shawarma> sivang: which bug?
[01:20] <sivang> shawarma: oh, I see, let me update the bug report
[01:20] <rmjb> to update my dapper pbuilder to edgy I just have to do this: sudo pbuilder update --distribution edgy --override-config --othermirror "deb http://tt.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse" right?
[01:20] <sivang> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/user-mode-linux/+bug/2735
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2735 in user-mode-linux "Package Missing" [Medium,Confirmed]
[01:21] <shawarma> found it
[01:22] <shawarma> sivang: Oh, I'm updating it, too.
[01:22] <sivang> shawarma: cool, thanks
[01:23] <shawarma> garh, you beat me to it. :-)
[01:23] <shawarma> Well, I somehow managed to stay awake until 1 AM again now. I'm off to bed.
[01:23] <sivang> hehe
[01:23] <sivang> good night !
[01:23] <shawarma> Back at you!
[01:24] <sivang> We'll see :)
[01:24] <rmjb> I get an error on that command I pasted above, does it look right to anyone?
[01:25] <VoX> so.. who's read the security bulletin about the closed-source nvidia drivers?
[01:26] <Fujitsu> VoX, me.
[01:26] <Fujitsu> I can't get the exploit to work, though.
[01:27] <VoX> it's scared the shit out of me
[01:27] <Fujitsu> That's what binary drivers do, yes.
[01:27] <VoX> and a few other guys i know running the cs drivers
[01:27] <VoX> heh
[01:32] <LaserJock> I don't see why it would matter
[01:32] <imbrandon> as it should VoX, cs stuff is very scarry that way
[01:33] <LaserJock> but then I'm not really into the security stuff
[01:33] <imbrandon> LaserJock, a root exploit is nasty heh
[01:33] <LaserJock> only if it happens to you ;-)
[01:33] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, arbitrary code execution as root simply by viewing a web page is pretty nasty, I think.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> And it's unfixable.
[01:34] <imbrandon> heh well sorta, it gives Linux as a whole a bad name too if there is enough of them
[01:34] <imbrandon> as it has done with windoww
[01:34] <LaserJock> I suppose
[01:34] <imbrandon> s/ww/ws
[01:34] <Fujitsu> If the driver were open source, the flaw would have been fixed within hours... But we'll probably be waiting weeks for NVIDIA to release it.
[01:34] <LaserJock> sure
[01:35] <imbrandon> mmmm vanilla milkshake /me is in heaven ...
[01:36] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:36] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[01:37] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[01:37] <LaserJock> does const in C++ have a type?
[01:37] <LaserJock> or is that a type?
[01:37] <bddebian> const what?
[01:37] <bddebian> Hi btw LaserJock
[01:38] <LaserJock> hi
[01:38] <LaserJock> ah, I think I found it
[01:38] <bddebian> LaserJock: It should have const int or const char, etc
[01:38] <imbrandon> 11980, just cant seem to make 12000
[01:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, it's const Value which was confusing me
[01:40] <minghua> technically speaking const is a type modifier, not a type, I think
[01:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: but I figured it out
[01:40] <minghua> at least in C
[01:40] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:40] <bddebian> Ah
[01:40] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[01:41] <minghua> hi LaserJock, and hi imbrandon, bddebian and Fujitsu :-)
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> No boring physics classes!
[01:41] <imbrandon> heya minghua
[01:41] <minghua> physics classes are good
[01:41] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, lol
[01:42] <LaserJock> but chemistry clases are best
[01:42] <bhale> physics classes are good for a nap
[01:42] <Fujitsu> minghua, not when you're doing nothing in this lesson.
[01:42] <bddebian> Hi minghua :)
[01:42] <minghua> Fujitsu: what subject is your class?
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Currently revising the photoelectric effect.
[01:43] <minghua> ah, wonderful discovery by Einstein
[01:44] <LaserJock> also great for the optical mollases
[01:44] <LaserJock> man I love python
[01:44] <LaserJock> these types and pointers are giving me a headache
[01:44] <imbrandon> bddebian, hehe
[01:45] <bddebian> LaserJock: pointers will make your head explode
[01:45] <bddebian> especially pointers to pointers and pointers to functions :-)
[01:45] <bddebian> heh
[01:46] <imbrandon> that was one of the main reasons i picked up c# instead of getting deeper in c++ back in the day
[01:46] <bhale> yay C#
[01:46] <imbrandon> NO POINTERS hehe
[01:47] <bddebian> C# "back in the day"? Hah
[01:47] <imbrandon> heh well back in 2002
[01:47] <bddebian> Fortran, or COBOL was "back in the day" ;-P
[01:48] <imbrandon> or so
[01:48] <minghua> LaserJock: OT, but, how is photoelectric effect good for optical molasses?
[01:48] <rmjb> bddebian: showing your age?
[01:48] <imbrandon> 2001 maybe, dont rember when the last time i "really" looked at a c++ project serouisly
[01:48] <bddebian> rmjb: Oh, I'm old :(
[01:49] <LaserJock> minghua: well, just showing that photons act as particles, hence light has a momentum
[01:49] <bddebian> What does that have to do with molasses cookies?
[01:49] <minghua> LaserJock: oh okay, thanks
[01:50] <LaserJock> minghua: if you hit a stream of atoms with a laser you can give the atoms momentum in the opposite direction from which they are travelling
[01:50] <LaserJock> so they slow down
[01:50] <minghua> yes, yes I know how laser cooling works
[01:50] <LaserJock> it acts like molasses
[01:50] <LaserJock> my lab is working on a similar concept, but with angular momentum
[01:50] <lastnode> imbrandon, got a sec?
[01:51] <minghua> although I have never heard of the term optical molasses before (and LaserJock's typo doesn't help when you look it up in wikipedia :-)
[01:51] <LaserJock> sorry
[01:51] <imbrandon> lastnode, sure wasup
[01:51] <lastnode> imbrandon, need a sec to talk about making that .deb. could you hop in #upstream-dev for a sec?
[01:51] <LaserJock> "hukd on fonics wrkd 4 me" :-)
[01:51] <bddebian> hahaha
[01:52] <minghua> bddebian: I don't think it has anything to do with real sweet molasses
[01:52] <imbrandon> not me ;(
[01:52] <minghua> I suspect that's a term coined by chemists :-P
[01:52] <LaserJock> of course, we like cookies
[01:53] <LaserJock> and are not as crazy as the physicists
[01:54] <LaserJock> my gosh, I have no idea where this pointer is pointing to
[01:55] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's the point of pointers.
[01:55] <LaserJock> grrr
[01:55] <LaserJock> but for some reason it matters if it's a float or a string
[01:55] <bddebian> It points to some location in memory :-)
[01:56] <minghua> well, float* usually points to a float, while char* is a string :-P
[01:56] <bddebian> A pointer is a pointer, it isn't a float or a string ;-P
[01:57] <LaserJock> bah
[01:58] <minghua> I suppose in C you can argue a string is very close to a char pointer
[01:58] <bddebian> In C you could argue there is not such thing as a string ;-P
[01:58] <Fujitsu> A pointer is a long!
[01:58] <LaserJock> what is a virtual ?
[01:59] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, able to be overridden by a derivative class.
[01:59] <minghua> Fujitsu: s/able to/must/ ?
[01:59] <Fujitsu> If no block of code is defined for it in the parent, it is `pure virtual', and has to be overridden.
[01:59] <Fujitsu> I think
[01:59] <Fujitsu> I haven't used C++ in years.
[01:59] <minghua> Hmm...
[02:01] <minghua> I supposed I confused virtual and pure virtual
[02:01] <ajmitch> ugh, C++ semantics
[02:01] <bddebian> heh
[02:01] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:02] <ajmitch> hello
[02:02] <bhale> hi aj
[02:02] <LaserJock> darn it, I told it what type it was!
[02:03] <minghua> hi ajmitch
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
[02:03] <minghua> ajmitch: I told imbrandon yesterday that you said for unmet deps universe package we can upload *then* ping.  I hope I didn't misrepresent you
[02:04] <ajmitch> minghua: either way I'll hear about it soon enough
[02:04] <ajmitch> making packages installable is a bit more useful than fixing package descriptions, for example :)
[04:22] <Lathiat> ajmitch: hrm i wonder if this is related to that long text bug: http://lwn.net/Articles/204542/
[04:29] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, it is
[04:30] <ajmitch> the appropriate people know already :)
[04:31] <Lathiat> would be cool if someone made the root exploit work from a browser ;)
[04:39] <Fujitsu> Lathiat, that depends on your definition of `cool'.
[04:40] <Lathiat> of course
[04:40] <Lathiat> by cool it would be "i can't use a web browser" or "i have to sacrifice my dual head"
[04:41] <imbrandon> i dont think "cool" would be the word i would use
[04:42] <zakame> hi all
[04:42] <imbrandon> heya zakame
[04:42] <zakame> yo imbrandon
[04:44] <ajmitch> Lathiat: but they say it's fixed in the crackful beta drivers :)
[04:53] <imbrandon> wow now THIS is a kernel version
[04:53] <imbrandon> Linux gobstopper 2.4.32-grsec+f6b+gr217+nfs+a32+fuse23+tg+++opt+c8+gr2b-v6.194
[04:54] <ajmitch> haha
[04:54] <imbrandon> thats the kernel version for my webhost for imbrandon.com ( dreamhost )
[04:55] <zakame> zomg
[04:55] <Kyral> lol
[04:56] <Lathiat> nice
[04:56] <imbrandon> its a dual core x2 server though ;)
[04:57] <imbrandon> err two amd opteron dual core proc's
[04:57] <ajmitch> nice
[04:57] <ajmitch> gimme
[04:57] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:58] <imbrandon> ajmitch, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27061/
[04:58] <whiprush> evening guys
[04:58] <imbrandon> heya whiprush
[04:58] <ajmitch> hey whiprush
[04:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: single cpu, dual core?
[04:59] <whiprush> man, release freeze already
[04:59] <imbrandon> 2 cpu and 2core each
[04:59] <imbrandon> 4core
[04:59] <imbrandon> s
[04:59] <bddebian> 4core and 7 years ago...
[05:00] <imbrandon> 2x Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 175
[05:00] <bddebian> Heya whiprush
[05:00] <imbrandon> bddebian, yea old but work horses ;)
[05:00] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what does top show?
[05:00] <imbrandon> hum lemme look
[05:00] <ajmitch> since my dual-core X2 shows very similar /proc/cpuinfo output
[05:01] <ajmitch> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27062/ <-- my desktop
[05:01] <zakame> yo whiprush , ajmitch
[05:02] <whiprush> hmmm, I am lusting for a new core2duo desktop.
[05:02] <Lathiat> yeh its tempting
[05:02] <ajmitch> whiprush: get me one while you're at it
[05:02] <imbrandon> ajmitch, http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_stats2.png
[05:02] <Lathiat> but i only just bought an X2 like 6 months ago :\
[05:02] <imbrandon> whiprush, me too
[05:02] <ajmitch> Lathiat: same..
[05:02] <whiprush> any of you guys know about that funky plug intel has for doing multiple outputs off the built in card?
[05:02] <Lathiat> mm 4G of ram
[05:02] <Lathiat> i only have 2 :(
[05:02] <ajmitch> imbrandon: in top, hit '1' & take the screenshot again
[05:03] <ajmitch> 6GB swap? that's excessive
[05:03] <Lathiat> yeh that seems a bit nuts
[05:03] <Lathiat> i dont have much swap these days
[05:03] <Lathiat> usually maybe 1G tops
[05:03] <Lathiat> i think my desktop has 512M now
[05:03] <ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:    3311728     733264
[05:03] <ajmitch> go edgy!
[05:03] <Lathiat> jsut enough to move bits of crap out of the way
[05:03] <ajmitch> mem hog
[05:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch, refresh it , named the file the same
[05:04] <ajmitch> imbrandon: right, so it's 'just' a single dual-core CPU
[05:05] <imbrandon> heh darn
[05:05] <imbrandon> still nice considering what i'm paying and what i get ;)
[05:05] <ajmitch> heh
[05:05] <imbrandon> cpuinfo is a bit misleading in that sense
[05:05] <ajmitch> not really
[05:06] <ajmitch> 2.4 didn't really know about multi-core machines
[05:06] <imbrandon> true
[05:06] <ajmitch> you'll see that 2.6 has the physical id
[05:06] <ajmitch> & the core id
[05:06] <imbrandon> no idea why they still are running 2.4
[05:06] <imbrandon> security man hours probably
[05:07] <imbrandon> its debian 3.1 based iirc , lemme look
[05:07] <imbrandon> yea
[05:07] <imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~$ cat /etc/issue
[05:07] <imbrandon> Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
[05:08] <whiprush> "The New queue is empty."
[05:08] <whiprush> that's weird
[05:08] <minghua> sabdfl uses KDE himself, right?
[05:08] <imbrandon> minghua, he uses both, kde on his desktop and gnome on his laptop
[05:09] <imbrandon> but he's on his laptop more
[05:09] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:09] <minghua> Oh.  he must have really good context switching then :-)
[05:10] <zakame> should.. use... gnome.. more
[05:10] <imbrandon> here we go
[05:10] <minghua> (in case anybody wonders why I am asking this -- sabdfl became the first patron of KDE (whatever that means))
[05:11] <imbrandon> minghua, it means he donated $6000 USD a year to KDE e.V basicly
[05:11] <carthik> wow, neat sum.
[05:12] <imbrandon> the article that tells about him becoming the first patron also tells how to become one ;)
[05:12] <zakame> I'm donating muchof my time using KDE ;p
[05:12] <minghua> imbrandon: yes I know it's donation related, I was just commenting on the word choice
[05:12] <Kyral> Freenode Staff == Awesome :P
[05:12] <carthik> we all donate as much by way of man hours I guess :)
[05:12] <imbrandon> Kyral, yes they are ;)
[05:12] <minghua> honestly I don't know what patron usually means
[05:13] <minghua> I think I heard it first in "memoir of a geisha" :-)
[05:13] <imbrandon> patron normaly means somehting like "regular customer" or something close
[05:13] <imbrandon> leaste in us english
[05:13] <zakame> minghua: hmm a somewhat different kind of `patron' ;)
[05:14] <imbrandon> if you goto the same petrol station to get your fule regularly you are a "patron" of that petrol station
[05:14] <zakame> yeah
[05:14] <imbrandon> fuel*
[05:15] <minghua> I suppose the patron used by KDE is different than the one imbrandon talks about
[05:15] <imbrandon> minghua, no it means they have made a promis to donate a set ammount over a set time
[05:15] <imbrandon> e.g. $6000 USD a year
[05:15] <minghua> as dictionary.cambridge.org has patron (SUPPORTER) and patron (CUSTOMER)
[05:16] <minghua> imbrandon: yes, yes, your explanation is quite clear
[05:16] <zakame> more like a pledge
[05:16] <imbrandon> well if you really think about it a customer is a supporter, e.g. if you buy windows your supporting it ;)
[05:16] <minghua> it's just always hard to understand a completely new word
[05:17] <imbrandon> but a supporter is not always a customer, but a customer is always a supporter
[05:17] <imbrandon> err yea
[05:18] <imbrandon> zakame, yea like a pledge
[05:18] <imbrandon> there is a lesser pledge i forget the "title" but its only $120 USD a year, i thought about that one possibly later
[05:18] <imbrandon> ( once i get some more contract work, its getting scarce )
[05:20] <imbrandon> anyone wanna pay me to do something hehehe ( joking really )
[05:21] <zakame> hehe
[05:27] <imbrandon> hrm
[05:27] <imbrandon> sooo anyting on the table tonight ? ajmitch how are umet deps
[05:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: way too much work to do
[05:28] <imbrandon> any work i can knock out that needs to be done and can be accepted ?
[05:28] <imbrandon> i'm bored tonight
[05:28] <imbrandon> most of my other stuff has to wait for +1
[05:29] <ajmitch> please just do it
[05:30] <ajmitch> I worry that this freeze has really slowed down the number of fixes done in universe
[05:30] <imbrandon> just do what ? some unmet deps stuff ? or you got something else more pressing
[05:31] <ajmitch> unmet deps stuff is fine
[05:31] <imbrandon> ok so normal bug fixes
[05:31] <imbrandon> for uni
[05:31] <ajmitch> as well as FTBFS stuff that may have been filed
[05:31] <ajmitch> unmet deps is important as those packages can't even be installed
[05:34] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, I think it has, yes... This short release cycle has in general been terrible for fixing things.
[05:34] <Fujitsu> That reminds me...
[05:35] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I mean that the rate of fixes has dropped off a lot int he last week
[05:35] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, naturally. The freeze will always slow things down.
[05:35] <ajmitch> we've been disorganised :)
[05:35] <imbrandon> bug 47493 can be closed correct ?
[05:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47493 in aegis "[UNMETDEPS]  Build dependencies missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47493
[05:35] <ajmitch> the freeze *shouldn't* be slowing you down
[05:36] <imbrandon> ajmitch, well i took it as like main where only very very trivial fixes or very very critical
[05:36] <ajmitch> I don't want it to slow people down at all
[05:36] <ajmitch> unmet deps are critical enough
[05:36] <imbrandon> right
[05:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: close it
[05:36] <bddebian> Work has ground me to a halt :-(
[05:36] <ajmitch> bddebian: same, I've got a very pressing deadline in 2 weeks
[05:36] <ajmitch> and that's the limit of how far we can push the deadline
[05:37] <ajmitch> so I shouldn't be harassing you on irc now :)
[05:37] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:37] <bddebian> :-)
[05:37] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, it's the concept that it's frozen that is the problem. Even if exceptions are easy to get, the mere fact that it's frozen causes people to think that less is going to be happening, so they do less...
[05:38] <Fujitsu> Plus, I've got exams, so I'm not doing a whole lot.
[05:41] <imbrandon> wow debhelper >> 3.0.0
[05:41] <imbrandon> heh
[05:41] <minghua> volunteers' real life usually don't mix well with release deadlines, as Debian has demonstrated in the past :-)
[05:42] <bddebian> No kidding :-(
[05:42] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I guess we may have to look at the universe freeze again for the next release
[05:43] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, I think so... And we need to not have UniverseFreeze and [insert major main/restricted milestone here]  on the same day.
[05:44] <imbrandon> well to be very honest with the way universe works since its not on the CD i see having a UVF a month before release but no real all out freeze untill release
[05:44] <imbrandon> just inho
[05:44] <imbrandon> imho*
[05:45] <ajmitch> I was surprised that we went with it
[05:46] <ajmitch> I was hoping that it wouldn't discourage people from making fixes
[05:46] <imbrandon> and really truefully i would love to see a prepetual universe and main releases only
[05:46] <imbrandon> but i dont know how well that would work
[05:46] <ajmitch> it used to be that we'd upload to universe up until release :)
[05:46] <imbrandon> yea but i mean even after rlease where breezy dapper edgy all use the same universe
[05:46] <minghua> blame the "everything converted to LP" move :-)
[05:46] <imbrandon> pool
[05:47] <imbrandon> although that wouldent be as good as it is in my mind in the real world
[05:47] <imbrandon> as linking against diffrent gnome/kde version etc would suck
[05:47] <imbrandon> was just a passing thought
[05:48] <imbrandon> yea ajmitch i dont see the need tbh for a freeze for universe, UVF yea but not "all out freeze"
[05:48] <imbrandon> like now
[05:53] <ajmitch> imbrandon: we could just get Hobbsee to fix it all
[05:53] <Hobbsee> hah
[05:53] <Hobbsee> dream on
[05:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: what do i need to fix now?
[05:53] <imbrandon> heh
[05:53] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: the universe
[05:54] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ok if a package r/c a package and has replaced it but another package builds against it , shlibs is still picking up the old name, does it need a Provides: XXX too ?
[05:54] <ajmitch> you shouldn't have anything important like exams on
[05:54] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no, shlibs needs fixed
[05:55] <Fujitsu> And I'll throw in multiverse too.
[05:55] <ajmitch> though don't rely on anything I say today
[05:56] <imbrandon> hum ok where is it willing shlibs what it provides /me hates libs sometimes
[05:56] <imbrandon> s/willing/telling
[05:56] <imbrandon> eg it builds against libsdl-sge-dev but shlibs finds libsdl-sgec2 but libsdl-sge r/c it
[05:57] <imbrandon> thus unmetdep
[05:57] <imbrandon> in that other package
[05:57] <ajmitch> let me look..
[05:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh right.  not a problem.
[05:57] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea wave your pointy stick at the universe, maybe it will fix its self
[05:58] <minghua> or gets more broken, you never know
[05:58] <imbrandon> lol
[05:58] <Fujitsu> The universe will assemble itself out of fear of Hobbsee!
[05:58] <ajmitch> what a screwed up library package
[05:59] <imbrandon> hahaha i was thinking that but i'm a lib newb kinda so i thought it might have just been me
[05:59] <ajmitch> I hope they're avoiding SONAME in the package name just because the library is unstable
[05:59] <ajmitch>         dh_makeshlibs -V 'libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1)'
[06:00] <ajmitch> right, so that *should* be the right shlibs line
[06:00] <bddebian> Gnight folks.  Keep up the good work!
[06:00] <ajmitch> night bddebian
[06:01] <ajmitch> :0:> less /var/lib/dpkg/info/libsdl-sge.shlibs
[06:01] <ajmitch> libSGE 0 libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1)
[06:01] <ajmitch> ok, that still looks sane
[06:01] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hrm yea BUT libsdl-ruby1.8 still picks up libsdl-sgec2 for some reason
[06:01] <imbrandon> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgl1-mesa | libgl1, libruby1.8 (>= 1.8.4), libsdl-image1.2 (>= 1.2.5), libsdl-mixer1.2 (>= 1.2.6), libsdl-sgec2, libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1), libsmpeg0
[06:01] <imbrandon> i just did
[06:02] <imbrandon> thats what sent me on this chase
[06:02] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:02] <ajmitch> rebuilding with DH_VERBOSE set
[06:02] <ajmitch> which is a flag I like
[06:03] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[06:03] <ajmitch> they can't take launchpad away from us!
[06:03] <imbrandon> that and dh_install --list-missing save me lots of times ;)
[06:03] <imbrandon> gah just as i get started for the night lp is going down
[06:04] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:04] <minghua> LP will be down in 30 minutes as announced in #ubuntu-devel
[06:04] <ajmitch> it'll be down just as I get home & get settled into doing some work
[06:04] <Fujitsu> How can they take our infrastructure down just like that?
[06:04] <imbrandon> it will hopefully only be one hour as they say
[06:04] <TheMuso> heh. I like what infinity said.
[06:05] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's canonical infrastructure, nothing we control
[06:05] <Fujitsu> Yes, as do I.
[06:05] <imbrandon> [23:04]  <infinity> stub: BTW, from here until release, we'd probably appreciate something more like 24 hours' notice. :)
[06:05] <imbrandon> NICE ^^
[06:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:05] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, but it's critical infrastructure for us...
[06:05] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes, that was good.
[06:06] <TheMuso> argh I get annoyed with no less than three packages having to update the initramfs.
[06:06] <TheMuso> One after the other.
[06:06] <TheMuso> Actually, make that four.
[06:06] <TheMuso> No, just three.
[06:06] <TheMuso> :)
[06:06] <Fujitsu> Fun fun fun.
[06:06] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[06:07] <TheMuso> I wonder if they plan to streamline that somehow in the future.
[06:07] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yea thats fun isnt it, someting should que it up to do it once at the end , kinda like debconf preconfigure only postconfigure
[06:07] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah.
[06:08] <imbrandon> specialy with usplash updating the initramfs, thats what causes it 90% of the time
[06:08] <imbrandon> with 2 or 3 of those pluss kernels installed its fun updating
[06:08] <TheMuso> Well for me it was udev, volumeid and its bits.
[06:09] <TheMuso> Ok this time it was initramfs-tools, udev, and volumeid
[06:09] <minghua> I think you need apt/aptitude/whatever to do that, right?  As dpkg doesn't know what packages are upgraded together
[06:09] <minghua> and we just have way too many package managers
[06:10] <imbrandon> trash them all and just keep apt-get ;)
[06:10] <TheMuso> I am sure it has been thought about at some point.
[06:10] <minghua> but maybe aptitude call apt-get internally, I don't know
[06:10] <minghua> what I know is some upgrade bugs only occur when you use aptitude, not when using apt-get
[06:11] <minghua> or vice versa
[06:18] <TheMuso> ooo.
[06:18] <TheMuso> We know what edgy+1 is now?
[06:18] <TheMuso> ah right.
[06:21] <imbrandon> TheMuso, it was a slip i'm sure as it hasent been officialy announced hehe ( but i know a few canonical employees know )
[06:21] <imbrandon> shhh
[06:21] <TheMuso> Right.
[06:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I've seen that slip before
[06:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, another person that shall be unnamed slipped the same thing a week or so agoi
[06:23] <imbrandon> ago*
[06:23] <imbrandon> heh
[06:24] <imbrandon> ajmitch, email them and see if you can get a last minute sponsorship
[06:24] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:24] <ajmitch> haha
[06:24] <ajmitch> not going to happen
[06:24] <ajmitch> I was already turned down by canonical
[06:24] <imbrandon> yea i wouldent think so
[06:24] <ajmitch> they're not going to reconsider
[06:25] <imbrandon> you put in this time ?
[06:25] <ajmitch> sure
[06:25] <imbrandon> ahh
[06:25] <imbrandon> i dident lok
[06:25] <ajmitch> got the rejection email & all
[06:25] <imbrandon> look
[06:25] <imbrandon> ouch
[06:25] <ajmitch> I expected that
[06:26] <imbrandon> i was suprised when i got mine
[06:26] <ajmitch> heh
[06:26] <imbrandon> i dident think i would this time ( figured next time )
[06:26] <imbrandon> kk
[06:26] <imbrandon> more mt dew, brb
[06:30] <chillywilly> bah.....
[06:30] <imbrandon> chillywilly, ?
[06:31] <chillywilly> just having fun with this package... ;P
[06:32] <chillywilly> I think I need to write some debconf stuff as a database needs to be setup before the daemon is sparked up...
[06:39] <ajmitch> ok, I'm back
[06:39] <ajmitch> chillywilly: use dbconfig-common
[06:39] <chillywilly> yea, saw that in a package I just looked at
[06:40] <chillywilly> cacti ;)
[06:40] <imbrandon> wb ajmitch
[06:40] <imbrandon> hum see if we had a slushfund we could build a farm and send you to mtv ;)
[06:41] <ajmitch> haha
[06:41] <imbrandon> anyhow how did the build go ?
[06:41] <ajmitch> yeah, some people have talked about that
[06:41] <ajmitch> not for me, but for developers in general
[06:41] <imbrandon> yea i think it would be a good thing, the only bad part would be deciding how to spend the money
[06:42] <ajmitch>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libruby1.8 (>= 1.8.4), libsdl-image1.2 (>= 1.2.5), libsdl-mixer1.2 (>= 1.2.6), libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1), libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1), libsmpeg0
[06:42] <ajmitch> always a problem
[06:42] <ajmitch> a rebuild went fine
[06:42] <imbrandon> hum, wonder why mine dident
[06:42] <ajmitch> voodoo
[06:42] <imbrandon> lol
[06:42] <imbrandon> anyhow look like that one just needs to be rebuild/reuploaded you wanna do it ?
[06:43] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:43] <ajmitch> DO IT!
[06:43] <imbrandon> kk got it
[06:43] <chillywilly> ajmitch: you da man
[06:44] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you want to check over bug 66507?
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
[06:44] <ajmitch> I just saw it come in
[06:44] <imbrandon> ajmitch, sure
[06:45] <imbrandon> ok uploaded if you can poke infinity to push it through ( libsdl-ruby_1.1.0-1ubuntu1.dsc )
[06:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ^'
[06:46] <ajmitch> k
[06:46] <ajmitch> what change did you make to it?
[06:46] <ajmitch> if it's a rebuild only, I'll have to lart you
[06:46] <imbrandon> none just a rebuild
[06:46] <chillywilly> I love ruby
[06:46] <imbrandon> libsdl-ruby (1.1.0-1ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
[06:47] <imbrandon>   * Rebuild against the new libsdl-sge to fix a UNMETDEP
[06:47] <imbrandon>   * Closes Malone: 65317
[06:47] <ajmitch> if the package is unmodified & you need to rebuild it, 1.1.0-1 becomes 1.1.0-1build1
[06:47] <ajmitch> so that it doesn't have to be merged next time
[06:47] <imbrandon> gah ok, reject that i can change and reupload
[06:47] <ajmitch> ok
[06:48] <imbrandon> ajmitch, Uploading via ftp libsdl-ruby_1.1.0-1build1.dsc: done.
[06:48] <ajmitch> we'll hope that soyuz doesn't reject it
[06:48] <imbrandon> i'll watch my email
[06:48] <imbrandon> heh
[06:51] <ajmitch> ok, all done
[06:52] <imbrandon> thanks
[06:52] <imbrandon> i dident know MoM distinguishes
[06:53] <minghua> I think that's the whole point of differentiating -XubuntuY and -XbuildY
[06:56] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ugh is there a reason that this person changed the packaging to cdbs ?
[06:57] <imbrandon> looks like a lot of divergence for justa  merge
[06:57] <imbrandon> ( not to mention it was versioned wrong in the debdiff )
[07:00] <ajmitch> imbrandon: the debian maintainer did that
[07:00] <ajmitch> the debdiff you're looking at is between 2 ubuntu versions
[07:00] <imbrandon> they did ? ahh ok i see
[07:01] <ajmitch> 17:58 < stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes for a code update and data migration work. Estimated downtime is 1 hour but will hopefully be significantly less.
[07:01] <ajmitch> so it's not quite down yet :)
[07:02] <imbrandon> heh
[07:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch, okies see ya in a bit
[07:05] <Jozo-> imbrandon: Should I provide diffstat with different versions? (gnunet)
[07:05] <imbrandon> Jozo-, no thats fine, i'm testbuilding now, i was looking at ti wrong thought /you/ converted it to cdbs
[07:05] <imbrandon> not upstream
[07:06] <imbrandon> but i re-read the changelog
[07:06] <imbrandon> one note though you bumped the version from the MoM version, normaly you would just change that to your version
[07:06] <imbrandon> eg change mom email address to yours and add your changes in that stanza, but i fixed all that for ya
[07:07] <imbrandon> other than that its looks ok, just testing ti now
[07:08] <Jozo-> Oh, now I know that :)
[07:08] <imbrandon> yup, not a big deal ;) just letting ya know
[07:13] <imbrandon> Jozo-, everything looks sane so far, i'll get the final "ok" to upload when ajmitch returns
[07:30] <imbrandon> ajmitch, gnunet_0.7.0e-3ubuntu1.dsc checked, tweaked and uploaded, poke infinity please when you return
[07:30] <imbrandon> Jozo-, ^^ fyi
[07:31] <imbrandon> Jozo-, once ajmitch does that please close those two bugs on LP as fix released
[07:31] <imbrandon> if you will
[07:31] <LaserJock> doh, has anybody seen Fujitsu?
[07:31] <imbrandon> wb LaserJock
[07:31] <imbrandon> about 30 minutes ago LaserJock [00:01]  <-- Fujitsu has left this server ("Leaving").
[07:31] <cbx33> guys anyone know why when I try to instal nvidia-glx....it tries to install the 386 kernel...even when I'm on the generic kernel?
[07:31] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:31] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[07:32] <imbrandon> cbx33, something about deping on the l-r-m from -386 , its in the logs from in here from yesterday
[07:32] <cbx33> imbrandon, so it will be fixed soon?
[07:32] <imbrandon> sorry i dont have a nvida card anymore so i wouldent know
[07:32] <cbx33> ok cool
[07:32] <cbx33> I'll wait an see what happens
[07:32] <imbrandon> cbx33, i would assume ( you might also note and get tyhe drivers from nvidia tbh becouse there was a root exploit released today )
[07:33] <imbrandon> it might bee a while before it hits the archives
[07:33] <cbx33> crikey?
[07:33] <imbrandon> yup one of the downfalls of binary drivers
[07:33] <imbrandon> :/
[07:33] <cbx33> are we getting the beta driver do you know....someone told me we are
[07:34] <imbrandon> well the root fix is in the beta, so i would assume but i dont know for sure
[07:34] <cbx33> ok
[07:34] <nixternal> seems there is a party going on tonight/today whatever
[07:34] <cbx33> if I did install from the nvidia source.....can I then update ith the package later? - or will I always have to rely on the nvidia sources
[07:35] <cbx33> yeh I don't really want to use them.....but graphics tend to be so.....un-sexy....without them
[07:35] <LaserJock> you can change later
[07:35] <imbrandon> depends on if there is a make uninstall target ( and if you keep the source arround to run it )
[07:35] <imbrandon> but should be doable
[07:36] <cbx33> ok
[07:36] <cbx33> thanks guys
[07:38] <cbx33> right I'm off to do the dishes :p
[07:38] <cbx33> nn LaserJock
[07:38] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:40] <Jozo-> imbrandon: ok
[07:41] <imbrandon> nixternal, party ?
[07:41] <nixternal> happy birthday to you
[07:41] <nixternal> happy birthday to you
[07:41] <imbrandon> umm i still have a few months
[07:41] <nixternal> oh..sorry, i thought this was the birthday party for a Mr. Herman
[07:42] <nixternal> of course
[07:42] <nixternal> jeesh, you asked that like you just met me or something ;)
[07:42] <nixternal> winky
[07:46] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Wow. You using evolution?
[07:47] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yea on the lappy i do
[07:47] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:47] <imbrandon> why ya ask?
[07:48] <TheMuso> Just curious, knowing you are a KDE user and all.
[07:48] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:48] <imbrandon> shhh
[07:48] <imbrandon> heh
[07:49] <TheMuso> :)
[07:49] <imbrandon> i do use kmail on my desktop , evolution on the lappy and imap webmail anywhere else
[07:49] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:49] <imbrandon> mostly becosue my lappy was ubuntu to begin with and i converted it to kubuntu
[07:50] <TheMuso> Aha.
[07:50] <imbrandon> and i never setup kmail , /me was lazy
[08:05] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, laserjock was looking for you about 30 minutes ago, dunno why
[08:05] <imbrandon> yall should get jabber heheh
[08:05] <Fujitsu> I have him on my contact list :)
[08:06] <Fujitsu> Anybody seen dholbach around lately?
[08:06] <imbrandon> not yet today, its almost time for him to wake
[08:06] <Fujitsu> Ah, LaserJock emailed me.
[08:07] <Fujitsu> And it was about what I needed to talk to dholbach about too :)
[08:08] <Fujitsu> Darnit.
[08:08] <Fujitsu> LP is offline, of course.
[08:08] <Fujitsu> Curses curses curses.
[08:08] <imbrandon> yea for ~1 hour
 AFK, tornado
[08:08] <nixternal> heh
[08:09] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: want to throw up a deb?
[08:09] <Fujitsu> Hey Burgundavia.
[08:09] <Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
[08:09] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, sure , if i get it working
[08:10] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, what time did LP go down? I would think it should only have a few minutes of downtime left, if that...
[08:10] <siretart> morning!
[08:10] <Fujitsu> Heya siretart.
[08:10] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, about 15 minuts ago
[08:10] <imbrandon> moins siretart
[08:11] <Fujitsu> They said it'd be down in 30 minutes at about 14:00, didn't they?
[08:11] <Fujitsu> Then 15 minutes at about 15:50...
[08:11] <Fujitsu> What fun.
[08:47] <Chandy> Hi
[08:47] <imbrandon> hello
[08:47] <Chandy> I want to know How Ubuntu is adding its own version ..like XubuntuY format
[08:48] <Chandy> imbrandon, I am wokring on building a debian based distro .. I have modified some gnome related packages and few others ..and have added my own version same as ubuntu as XbossY format
[08:49] <imbrandon> Chandy, that how we do it too
[08:49] <Fujitsu> Chandy, re. what you were saying in -devel... Some packages have exact versioned dependencies, yes... You'll need to rebuild those.
[08:49] <Chandy> Fujitsu, How do I find that these debian packages need thier dependent library or package with exact version
[08:50] <Q-FUNK> Build-Depends:
[08:50] <Chandy> imbrandon, Is Ubuntu is adding its own version for all 15000 packages of debian
[08:50] <Fujitsu> You can use `apt-cache rdepend whatever' to find what depends on a certain package.
[08:50] <Fujitsu> Chandy, no.
[08:50] <imbrandon> not all of them, only the ones we change
[08:50] <Fujitsu> Chandy, only ones where we modify the source package.
[08:50] <Q-FUNK> only those that deviate from the debian package
[08:50] <Q-FUNK> sync
[08:51] <Chandy> Fujitsu, Modification in what sense ... if only image replacement ..source code editing
[08:51] <imbrandon> Chandy, any change
[08:51] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[08:52] <imbrandon> might be good for you to browse the ubuntu package guide
[08:52] <Chandy> imbrandon, Now I have built an image with my own modifiec packages .. After installing that ..Iam trying to install another package over that ..but it is asking that packages needs its dependent package exactly equal to debain upstream.. But in system boss version if present
[08:52] <Chandy> imbrandon, What is the link of Ubuntu package guide
[08:52] <imbrandon> !package guide
[08:52] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[08:53] <Chandy> ubotu, thank you
[08:53] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about thank you - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:54] <imbrandon> Chandy, ubotu is a bot ;)
[08:55] <Chandy> Fujitsu, U told "apt-cache rdepend whatever" ,but it is giving error "invalid option rdepend"
[08:55] <Fujitsu> rdepends, sorry.
[08:56] <Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
[08:58] <Kagou> morning
[08:59] <zakame> yo Kagou
[09:00] <Chandy> Fujitsu, Do I need to find the dependent packages for the packages which are installed in my system and compile those packages with my version and put it into my repository for resolving taht exact match problem
[09:01] <Fujitsu> Pretty much, yes.
[09:02] <Chandy> Fujitsu, For example if package lib6 is installed in my system ..If I use "apt-get redepends libc6" it will list all the other packages dependent on this ..So I need to compile those packages also for my version ..Then it wont give any problem for intaallation of those packages ..right
[09:04] <TheMuso> Chandy: I hope you don't want to rebuild libc6.
[09:06] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, !!!!!!!
[09:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon!!!!!
[09:07] <imbrandon> :)
[09:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: why so?
[09:08] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, we've got no LP, and I'm currently trying to prepare maxima/gcl fixes for -updates... It'd be nice to know what version of each Dapper has, without having to find a Dapper machine.
[09:08] <Fujitsu> Plus the actual bug report would be useful too.
[09:08] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh...
[09:08] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: log into your dapper pbuilder.  or other ways
[09:08] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, login to horatio then pbuilder-dapper login and apt-cache madison blah
[09:08] <Hobbsee> like, p.u.c
[09:08] <imbrandon> etc etc etc
[09:08] <Fujitsu> True.
[09:09] <Fujitsu> But LP is convenient.
[09:09] <Hobbsee> true
[09:14] <Chandy> Fujitsu, can ubuntu be upgraded from debian mirror
[09:15] <Fujitsu> Chandy, what do you mean?
[09:20] <Chandy> Fujitsu, I have installed dapper ..I will connect to debian etch mirror .. will it upgrade ubuntu
[09:20] <Chandy> Fujitsu, If I do "apt-get dist-upgrade"
[09:28] <zakame> wb dholbach
[09:28] <dholbach> good morning
[09:28] <robitaille> Chandy:  no...since a debian etch mirror doesn't contain ubuntu packages, it will not be able to upgrade your ubuntu installation
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
[09:30] <dholbach> hey zakame, Fujitsu
[09:31] <Fujitsu> dholbach, I hear LaserJock spoke to you earlier about maxima/gcl.
[09:31] <dholbach> Fujitsu: only very briefly
[09:31] <dholbach> Fujitsu: we don't have a process for it yet, but I said to assign it to motu-uvf
[09:31] <Fujitsu> dholbach, OK.
[09:31] <dholbach> I think that a given use-case might help with figuring out the general process.
[09:32] <dholbach> but I'd rather deal with edgy release stuff now - I hope you don't mind.
[09:32] <Fujitsu> Of course, that's fine :)
[09:32] <Chandy> robitaille, How apt-get will identify that debian etch mirror doesnt contain ubuntu packages
[09:32] <Chandy> robitaille, All packages names will be same ..Only the version will be with ubuntu
[09:33] <dholbach> Fujitsu: super, just mark it as SRU or something, so it sticks out
[09:33] <Fujitsu> OK.
[09:36] <Chandy> Fujitsu, How do you check These pacakages are updated / upgraded in debian .. and How you will sync with that in Ubuntu
[09:36] <imbrandon> Chandy, many man hours of work ;)
[09:36] <Chandy> Fujitsu, What about other gnome packages ..Ubuntu is advanced than debian in application level
[09:36] <Fujitsu> What imbrandon said, basically...
[09:36] <Fujitsu> Chandy, we just have a higher version number.
[09:37] <imbrandon> sometimes we are ahead yes, we get it from upsteam
[09:37] <imbrandon> in those cases
[09:37] <Chandy> Fujitsu, Thats ok ..How do you keep track of debian updatation
[09:37] <imbrandon> Chandy, mostly by hand, checking
[09:37] <Chandy> imbrandon, Upstream in the sense original gnome packages and make it debianized
[09:38] <imbrandon> Chandy, yes
[09:38] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok, so the maintainer resposible for that package will be doing this
[09:38] <imbrandon> Chandy, well there is not "maintainer" in the debian sence in ubuntu , we all maintain all packages
[09:38] <Fujitsu> Chandy, there are very few specific maintainers in Ubuntu.
[09:38] <imbrandon> many hunderds of volenteers
[09:39] <jldugger> there arent enough ubuntu developers to give "ownership" of a particular package to a specific person ;)
[09:40] <Fujitsu> 14000/55 == something unpleasant.
[09:41] <imbrandon> we all have our pet packages like i keep my eye on konversation and amarok , but i often touch alot more than just those, and others will occasionaly touch amarok or konversation etc
[09:43] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[09:43] <Chandy> Fujitsu, Oh Ubuntu have only 55 developers
[09:44] <Fujitsu> Chandy, 55 direct developers with upload privileges to universe.
[09:44] <imbrandon> 55 MOTU's , a few more core-devs , but basicly less than 100 "full time" ( if you can use that word for a volnteer )
[09:44] <Fujitsu> There are 42 or so people with main rights.
[09:45] <Chandy> Fujitsu, Ok
[09:45] <Fujitsu> And the intersection between those two groups is great.
[09:45] <Chandy> Are you using reprepro and dupload for uploading
[09:45] <imbrandon> yea probably less than 75 total
[09:45] <imbrandon> dput mostly
[09:45] <Chandy> imbrandon, What is the fullform of MOTU
[09:46] <Fujitsu> Master(s) of the Universe
[09:46] <imbrandon> fullform ?
[09:46] <Hobbsee> mistress of the universe :P
[09:46] <Fujitsu> (and the number of actually active devs is minimal)
[09:46] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[09:46] <Hobbsee> (tm)
[09:47] <imbrandon> (c) (tm) (sm) Hobbsee 2006
[09:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: sm?
[09:47] <imbrandon> service mark
[09:47] <Hobbsee> ahh
[09:47] <Hobbsee> minghua: hmm?
[09:49] <Chandy> imbrandon, robitaille told that Ubuntu cannot be upgraded from debian etch mirror as it doesnt contain ubuntu packages ..
[09:49] <imbrandon> correct
[09:49] <Chandy> imbrandon, How come apt-get identifies that there is no ubunt package in debian mirror
[09:49] <imbrandon> becouse there is no ubuntu packages in a debian mirror
[09:50] <minghua> Chandy: by "can not be upgraded", it means more "if you do, it will be broken", instead of "you will be prevented from doing that"
[09:50] <Chandy> imbrandon, thas ok ..apt-get while installing it checks for the package name and installs it ..ubuntu name is in version only ..How it identifies
[09:50] <imbrandon> ubuntu and debian are based of the same code, and ideas but differ greatly and for the most part arent compatable except in corrner cases
[09:50] <imbrandon> just becosue it WILL install debs dosent make it work right
[09:51] <Chandy> imbrandon, How you are preventing from doing that
[09:51] <imbrandon> think about installing a SuSE rpm in Redhat
[09:51] <Chandy> minghua, How you are preventing ffrom doing that
[09:51] <imbrandon> Chandy, preventing what ?
[09:52] <imbrandon> your not prevented from trying, but you will end up with a broken system is what he was saying
[09:52] <Chandy> imbrandon, preventing installing debs from debian mirror ..
[09:52] <imbrandon> your not prevented from trying, but you will end up with a broken system is what he was saying
[09:52] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[09:52] <imbrandon> i can install a SuSE rpm on my Fedora box and it will install but it will most likely break my system
[09:52] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[09:53] <imbrandon> or i can install a windows 3.1 app on my windows XP but it will not likely work ( atleaste not right )
[09:53] <imbrandon> same thing, ubuntu and debian are based on the same base and ideas but thats all
[09:53] <imbrandon> intermixing debs WILL break your system eventualy
[09:53] <Fujitsu> Unless you really, really know what you're doing.
[09:54] <imbrandon> same thing for Knaotix,Xandros,Freespire,etc etc etc any other deb based distro
[09:54] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, even knowing what your doing you'll break it eventualy heh
[09:54] <jldugger> ive installed rpms intended for redhat 9 on my dapper workstation ;)
[09:54] <imbrandon> unless you rebuild it for your system
[09:55] <jldugger> little tool called "alien" works magic :)
[09:55] <Fujitsu> jldugger, at least you didn't mention the dirty word.
[09:55] <Fujitsu> BAH!
[09:55] <Fujitsu> KILL!
[09:55] <jldugger> hah
[09:55] <imbrandon> jldugger, alien is a curse word in here
[09:55] <Fujitsu> You said it right as I sent that... Evil evil evil.
[09:55] <imbrandon> so is checkinstall
[09:55] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:56] <jldugger> well, when avr gcc is patched to accept $s in identifiers
[09:56] <jldugger> i can consider non-hack approaches
[09:57] <Fujitsu> .......
[09:57] <Fujitsu> You installed GCC using alien?
[09:57] <jldugger> and it works
[09:57] <Q-FUNK> yikes
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Are you trying to get yourself killed, or something?
[09:57] <imbrandon> omg jldugger i just officialy disowned you
[09:57] <imbrandon> lol
[09:57] <jldugger> heh
[09:58] <jldugger> its avr-gc
[09:58] <jldugger> avr-gcc
[09:58] <jldugger> im not going to rebuild the entire toolchain for tinyOS
[09:58] <jldugger> not when they go and patch the whole damn thing anyways
[09:58] <jldugger> tinyOS is quite a mess
[10:01] <jldugger> so which is worse, checkinstall or Automatix?
[10:01] <imbrandon> hahah both
[10:01] <Fujitsu> You have a foul mouth, jldugger.
[10:01] <Q-FUNK> *boink*
[10:01] <imbrandon> alien , checkinstall , and automatix will get you disowned in the development channels
[10:02] <Chandy> imbrandon, May I know what are the tools your are using for compiling packages and uploading it into the repository
[10:02] <imbrandon> Chandy, devscripts and dput
[10:02] <imbrandon> Chandy, all this is covere in the package guide
[10:02] <imbrandon> that we pointed you to
[10:02] <imbrandon> covered*
[10:02] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok ok Iam going thru that
[10:06] <jldugger> imbrandon, ok, so what course of action should a righteous developer take when confronted with a vendor who provides RPMs?
[10:07] <imbrandon> grab the source and make a deb
[10:07] <imbrandon> ( or bug them to do so )
[10:08] <imbrandon> installing from source imho is better than alien
[10:08] <imbrandon> safer too
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Using checkinstall is better than alien.
[10:08] <Q-FUNK> imbrandon: the answer to that one (especially if we're talking about binary-only software) is that LSB-RPM is the only format they "support."
[10:08] <jldugger> the spirtually pure might want to cover their ears, cuz its about to get "dirty" in here:
[10:09] <imbrandon> if its binary only it most of the time they are commercial and if they want your business they will make a package for your system
[10:09] <jldugger> i doubt asking for a .deb will go anywhere because 96 percent of their user base is using Cygwin
[10:10] <imbrandon> jldugger, well then install from source ( or checkinstall but dont distribute it heh )
[10:10] <jldugger> but... building a cross compiler is hard =(
[10:11] <minghua> I suppose installing rpm and let rpm handles the RPM packages for you is not a bad idea, is it?
[10:11] <jldugger> and also i don't feel like figuring out what sorts of BS tricks they hid in that tool chain
[10:11] <imbrandon> jldugger, tell me about it i've been maintaining powerpc and arm cross compilers and packagers on i386
[10:11] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:11] <jldugger> heh
[10:11] <Fujitsu> minghua, it is a very bad idea.
[10:12] <Fujitsu> What if you install a package using both RPM and dpkg?
[10:12] <jldugger> i cant imagine rpm and dpkg coexisting nicely
[10:13] <jldugger> So if these things are so bad, why has nobody gone to the effort of explaining why this is so in the wiki?
[10:13] <minghua> Fujitsu: I suppose I'll have to keep both pieces, but I honestly don't think there is a better way
[10:13] <Fujitsu> minghua, there is a much better way... DON'T USE RPMS, DAMNIT!
[10:14] <minghua> basically I want to say is that if I am careful I can use rpm on a deb-based system
[10:14] <minghua> Fujitsu: oh, only if Intel can ship .debs for their compilers
[10:14] <Fujitsu> You can, yes...  I don't use proprietary software.
[10:16] <minghua> well, I am taking their tools for free well they are selling them for money, so I don't really want to push that point :-)
[10:17] <jldugger> Fujitsu, i don't use icc either.
[10:17] <jldugger> avast ye
[10:17] <minghua> just for the record -- neither do I.  I use intel's Fortran compiler
[10:18] <Fujitsu> Intel Fortran!?
[10:18] <Fujitsu> Urgh.
[10:18] <minghua> huh?  what's wrong with Intel Fortran?
[10:18] <jldugger> on the other hand, if icc outputs intel style asm
[10:19] <Fujitsu> minghua, why Intel Fortran?
[10:19] <jldugger> it might be worth it to never see another %
[10:19] <imbrandon> jldugger / Fujitsu , http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27067/
[10:19] <minghua> Fujitsu: well, just their compiler.  the code is perfect good ISO fortran 90, there is just no open source compiler that can handle it
[10:23] <imbrandon> heh infact now that i look i have 13 cross compilers installed http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27068/
[10:23] <imbrandon> not that i use all of them ( only 2 or 3 really )
[10:25] <TheMuso> imbrandon: You have gone ahead and done more?
[10:25] <TheMuso> Wow!
[10:25] <imbrandon> TheMuso, might as well do them all at the same time, they are all from the same "base" ;)
[10:25] <TheMuso> heh
[10:25] <imbrandon> i did all gcc and libc supports
[10:25] <jldugger> ok. i gotta stop staying up till 4 in the morning
[10:26] <imbrandon> jldugger, hahah welcome to my world, i get the most done at night
[10:26] <imbrandon> brb more mt dew
[10:26] <jldugger> yea, but you dont have a job or classes :P
[10:26] <imbrandon> heh
[10:26] <imbrandon> true
[10:26] <jldugger> 4 in the morning was okay during the summer when i could set my own hours
[10:28] <jldugger> so yea, gnite
[10:38] <Chandy> imbrandon, What is the difference between main,universe,multiverse and restricted sections
[10:38] <Chandy> imbrandon, Which team is responsible for main section
[10:38] <imbrandon> ubuntu-core-dev
[10:39] <minghua> imbrandon: they are talking about gnunet upload in -devel
[10:39] <imbrandon> !components
[10:39] <ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and !easysource
[10:39] <Chandy> ubotu, Thank you
[10:39] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Thank you - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[10:45] <Chandy> ubotu, What is the difference between main and universe section ..Both contains pacakges which are available for free with free license
[10:45] <minghua> !ubotu
[10:45] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
[10:46] <Chandy> imbrandon, What is the difference between main and universe section ..Both contains pacakges which are available for free with free license
[10:47] <Chandy> imbrandon, Is there any package difference in these or both contains all 14000 packages
[10:47] <imbrandon> main is supported by cacnonical and shiped on the cd
[10:47] <imbrandon> universe is community supported
[10:47] <TheMuso> Not all of main goes on the CD afaik.
[10:48] <Chandy> imbrandon, So which packages goes into the Ubuntu CD..main or universe
[10:48] <TheMuso> Chandy: Packages from main.
[10:48] <TheMuso> Universe packages are only available on the net.
[10:49] <imbrandon> [03:47]  <imbrandon> main is supported by cacnonical and shiped on the cd
[10:49] <TheMuso> However, given enough of a reason, a package can be promoted to main during a development cycle.
[10:49] <Chandy> TheMuso: Then What is the difference between the same package available in cd i.e in main section and in universe section
[10:49] <imbrandon> the same package isnt in both
[10:49] <TheMuso> Any one package cannot be in main and universe.
[10:49] <Chandy> imbrandon, supported by cacnonical means what
[10:50] <TheMuso> Chandy: That canonical make sure the package stays up to date, including security fixes.
[10:50] <TheMuso> And is stable.
[10:50] <Chandy> TheMuso, Does main contains only those pacakges which are in cd
[10:50] <imbrandon> Chandy, means you can pay canonical to get support by phone , and they pay employees to security update them
[10:50] <TheMuso> If users report bugs, they fix them etc.
[10:50] <TheMuso> Chandy: Most of the packages in main go on the CD, but there are some that don't.
[10:51] <Chandy> TheMuso, ok, Then approximately how many packages may be in main and how many in universe
[10:51] <Chandy> TheMuso, I hope universe is like the debian repository with all 15000 packages
[10:51] <TheMuso> Chandy: I wouldn't know personally, but I am sure some scripting/command guru around here can come up with a cmmand/script that can tell us/
[10:52] <Chandy> TheMuso, does all the pacakges which goes into the cd contains XubuntuY format version ..
[10:52] <imbrandon> Chandy, no , we explaind this, only packages that are changed
[10:52] <TheMuso> Chandy: Well the repository is certainly all in Ubuntu as far as I know, but just split into two sections.
[10:53] <TheMuso> Chandy: No.
[10:53] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[10:53] <Chandy> TheMuso, ok
[10:53] <TheMuso> The package only has an ubuntuX in its version because it has been changed by people working on the package specifically for Ubuntu.
[10:53] <TheMuso> Ubuntu even has packages that Debian doesn't.
[10:53] <imbrandon> Chandy, i urge you to read the developers documentation that i pointed you to, it explains almost every question you have asked
[10:53] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok
[10:54] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yea we explained that about 3 times tonight so far ;P
[10:54] <imbrandon> Chandy, dont get me wrong, we would love to awnser any question you have but please do a bit of homework first
[10:55] <Chandy> imbrandon, ok..I was little bit confused .. I will go thru the documentation
[10:55] <imbrandon> sure ;)
[10:58] <StevenK> dholbach: I have an upload of libgalago-gtk that is a rebuold that makes it installable again. You're on the galago team, do you mind if I go ahead?
[10:58] <dholbach> StevenK: I think it's just a give back, no?
[10:58] <dholbach> but sure go ahead, i'll update bzr
[10:59] <StevenK> dholbach: It isn't a give back, -0ubuntu3 built sucessfully.
[11:00] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:00] <dholbach> StevenK: thanks!
[11:00] <StevenK> dholbach: No problem.
[11:01] <TheMuso> Chandy: It depends on which version of Ubuntu you want to base it on.
[11:02] <TheMuso> And depends on what part of the CD you want to customiz.
[11:02] <TheMuso> customize
[11:03] <ajmitch> dholbach: ah, you sorted your irc troubles :)
[11:04] <dholbach> yeah, I'm quite happy :)
[11:04] <imbrandon> dholbach, well connected shell ? heh
[11:05] <dholbach> imbrandon: no, they seem to have unbanned my provider
[11:05] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:05] <dholbach> using irssi on my server made me sick :)
[11:06] <imbrandon> dholbach, bip FTW ;)
[11:06] <imbrandon> i run bip on my server and the gui client of choice ;)
[11:06] <Adri2000> why are there two teams on launchpad motu and ubuntu-dev?
[11:06] <ajmitch> dholbach: just hope that they don't ban it again - they've been having lots of trouble with people from your probider
[11:06] <imbrandon> Adri2000, MOTU is the older unused team
[11:06] <dholbach> Adri2000: motu is to forward univers bugs to universe-bugs@
[11:07] <dholbach> ajmitch: yeah and one crack monkey used my nick to pester people in #ubuntu
[11:07] <Adri2000> ok
[11:07] <dholbach> imbrandon: will check it out
[11:07] <ajmitch> yes, I saw that
[11:07] <ajmitch> were they in -devel as well?
[11:07] <TheMuso> dholbach: ouch.
[11:08] <imbrandon> dholbach, when and if you do lemme know, i'll give ya some tips, i've helped a few others set it up as its not 100% streight forward ( but is in the universe repo )
[11:08] <imbrandon> but once its configured its very very nice
[11:08] <dholbach> imbrandon: ok cool - thanks for that.
[11:08] <TheMuso> meh. Irssi & screen all the way. :)
[11:09] <imbrandon> heh bip + {konversation,xchat} all the way ;)
[11:10] <imbrandon> actualy
[11:10] <dholbach> imbrandon: oh that's an irc proxy
[11:10] <imbrandon> heh bip + {konversation,xchat,irssi} all the way ;)
[11:10] <imbrandon> dholbach, yea
[11:10] <dholbach> imbrandon: hmhmhmhmhm, not sure I want to have that running on that server :-)
[11:10] <imbrandon> bip connects to irc for you, you client connect to it
[11:10] <imbrandon> dholbach, you can restrict it by ip and password
[11:11] <dholbach> I have no fixed IP
[11:11] <imbrandon> ahh well it would be connected by password only ( as mine is )
[11:11] <imbrandon> so i can connect to it form any computer
[11:11] <dholbach> I think I prefer a good commandline client :-)
[11:11] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:12] <dholbach> hi jinty
[11:12] <TheMuso> What? Irssi isn't good enough? :)
[11:14] <imbrandon> well considering my fileserver is only a 333mhz i have to give it /something/ usefull to do ;)
[11:14] <imbrandon> 333mhz 96mb ram, but is happy with dapper as a file/imap/bip server
[11:14] <TheMuso> heh
[11:15] <imbrandon> loud beaste too, i need to replace it someday
[11:15] <Jozo-> imbrandon: Simple rebuild didn't fix missing dependencies (dh_shlibdeps is commented off). What you success to do? (gnunet)
[11:15] <imbrandon> maybe when i'm a millionaire ;)
[11:16] <imbrandon> Jozo-, make only the bare minimum fixes ( eg uncomment it ) and fix the init script, but dont merge the new version, just fix the old one
[11:16] <Fujitsu> dholbach, shall I just attach debdiffs to the appropriate bug, subscribe motu-uvf, and modify the summary to say SRU?
[11:16] <dholbach> Fujitsu: sounds cool
[11:16] <imbrandon> Jozo-, and if you wish when you get done email the debdiff to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and i'll look it over again
[11:17] <Jozo-> imbrandon: okey
[11:34] <jinty> hey dholbach!
[11:35] <sivang> morning
[11:35] <sivang> jinty: Hey Brian
[11:35] <jinty> morning sivang
[11:36] <jinty> sivang: how's the backup program going?
[11:37] <sivang> jinty: cool, haven't managed to integrate all of your comments, but I'm picking stuff one at a time
[11:37] <sivang> jinty: recently someone joined me and helps me with some of the efforts as well, which is nice.
[11:38] <jinty> sivang: did you have a good read of PEP8?
[11:38] <sivang> jinty: I glimpsed at it, I shall go over it again soon ;)
[11:39] <jinty> ;)
[11:50] <ajmitch> night all
[11:50] <Q-FUNK> Anybody knows why ubuntu-desktop recommends linux-headers-386 and not linux-headers-386 | linux-headers-generic ?
[11:52] <Q-FUNK> or hm... actually, depends
[11:59] <sivang> night ajmitch
[12:39] <Jozo-> imbrandon: mail sent (Reply to Colin's mail)
[12:49] <Q-FUNK> how would we feel about requesting a sync on rt2400-source rt2500-source and rt2570-source this late?  they're all in universe and introduce small packaging fixes.
[12:58] <siretart> Q-FUNK: do we speak about a new upstream release or just new debian revision?
[12:59] <Q-FUNK> debian
[12:59] <Q-FUNK> and rt2x00-source
[01:00] <Q-FUNK> argh. it appears that upstart cannot be used on a host with pinned APT.  it lacks the "Essential: Yes" header in the control file
[01:01] <Q-FUNK> actually, rt2x00-source is a new upstream, so we can cross it out
[01:01] <Q-FUNK> the other 3 ae just updated debian packages
[01:02] <siretart> Q-FUNK: it we would only talk about a new debian revision, I see no problem
[01:02] <siretart> Q-FUNK: new upstream version tend to introduce a different set of bugs
[01:02] <Q-FUNK> indeed
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> alright then, I'll file the sync requests
[01:07] <Fujitsu> Mistress of the Universe!
[01:07] <bhale> oh no, Hobbsee
[01:07] <bhale> and the pointy stick
[01:08] <Hobbsee> greetings
[01:08] <Fujitsu> :O
[01:10] <bhale> do it
[01:10] <TheMuso> Thats boring.
[01:10] <wgrant> Peer pressure, Hobbsee!
[01:11] <bhale> easier to find you, too
[01:11] <bhale> meh
[01:12] <dholbach> shobbs, lyelavich, ... ;-)
[01:12] <bhale> dholbach ...
[01:12] <thom> dholbach: it's all your fault :-)
[01:12] <wgrant> dubgrant!
[01:12] <thom> (including my hangover on sunday)
[01:12] <dholbach> thom: at that time a bunch of 'daniel''s were around ;)
[01:12] <LYelavich> :)
[01:13] <dholbach> thom: how did you get home?
[01:13] <Hobbsee> wgrant: :P
[01:13] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:13] <thom> dholbach: train to hochstrasse tor, then walked
[01:13] <dholbach> thom: you won't believe it: after you guys took the u-bahn, I went into another club, talked to the owner and will talk to him on the WE again to play there :-D
[01:13] <thom> nice!
[01:14] <thom> good work!
[01:14] <jdub> STOP SPREADING THIS FASCISM!
[01:14] <dholbach> thom: yeah :-)
[01:14] <bhale> jdub: huh?
[01:14] <bhale> :(
[01:14] <jdub> yoink!
[01:14] <Hobbsee> Fetched 43.0MB in 1m39s (433kB/s)  yay
[01:14] <TheMuso> ROFL
[01:15] <dholbach> .... :)
[01:21] <siretart> wtf?!
[02:07] <zoopmf> Hi! Can someone tell me what else I can do to get a fixed version of opencv uploaded (I already supplied a debdiff)?
[02:07] <zoopmf> See: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/opencv/+bug/57585
[02:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57585 in opencv "Lots of warnings when compiling" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[02:11] <geser> zoopmf: subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
[02:11] <zoopmf> geser: I subscribed "MOTU Reviewers Team". Was that the wrong team?
[02:12] <Fujitsu> zoopmf, yes.
[02:15] <zoopmf> geser, Fujitsu: I got the info from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs
[02:16] <zoopmf> "Find a bug, work on it, and attach a debdiff which fixes the bug. Then, assign the bug to the motureviewers team, who will review and upload it."
[02:16] <zoopmf> If that is wrong it should probably be fixed...
[02:17] <geser> I usually use the u-u-s team to get debdiffs uploaded, I don't know if motureviewers also work or not
[02:19] <Hobbsee> geser: both should
[02:19] <Fujitsu> motureviewers is deprecated.
[02:22] <zoopmf> OK. Then is there another explanation why nothing's happening or something else I can do?
[02:24] <Fujitsu> zoopmf, subscribed, not assigned.
[02:25] <zoopmf> Fujitsu: Should I assign it to nobody then?
[02:25] <Fujitsu> zoopmf, correct.
[02:26] <zoopmf> Fujitsu: done
[02:30] <giskard> hello
[02:33] <siretart> wow. I love that: "This bug has 4 duplicates"
[02:35] <Hobbsee> siretart: yes, aka "This bug has x duplicates, where x is a large number.  Someone should really fix this"
[02:38] <Fujitsu> Ubiquity XFS, perhaps?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: the dapper X breaking after release was pretty impressive
[02:39] <ajmitch> or the compiz stuff breaking things
[02:39] <Hobbsee> that too
[02:39] <Hobbsee> but most of those people havent upgraded to edgy yet, i expect
[02:39] <Fujitsu> Ooh, impressive.
[02:40] <Fujitsu> bug #47848
[02:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47848 in ubiquity "should warn at partitioning stage if /boot is on XFS" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47848
[02:40] <Fujitsu> Timeout error!
[02:40] <ajmitch> the nvidia root hole has only 8 duplicates so far
[02:41] <ajmitch> in debian I've had about 6 duplicates for an f-spot bug
[02:42] <neutrinomass> From what I understand, packages that have failed deps because of $shlibs only need a rebuild to get them sorted, right ?
[02:43] <ajmitch> neutrinomass: generally yes
[02:43] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: the X upgrade in dapper - 52 duplicates
[02:43] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yup :P
[03:03] <neutrinomass> so if a package has to be rebuilt to fix its deps, is there something I (as a non-MOTU) can do ?
[03:03] <Fujitsu> Post a debdiff, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
[03:04] <neutrinomass> If it just has to be rebuilt (i.e. $shlibs issue) I mean ? (btw, is -sponsors preferred over motureviewers ?)
[03:05] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-universe-sponsors supersedes motureviewers, yes.
[03:06] <geser> neutrinomass: you only need to change the version number (-XbuildY except it has an -XubuntuY already) and add a changelog entry
[03:08] <neutrinomass> geser: If it has an ubuntu version, I don't change that? After that I attach a debidff and subsribe sponsors again ?
[03:09] <geser> neutrinomass: an upload needs always a new version
[03:09] <geser> if it has -XubuntuY already the new version is -Xubuntu(Y+1)
[03:09] <neutrinomass> ok... so what am I supposed to put in the changelog ?
[03:10] <neutrinomass> ( I know how the version works, but you sort of confused me before :-) )
[03:10] <geser> state that it is a rebuild only and preferable the reason for the rebuild
[03:11] <neutrinomass> ok, thanks :)
[03:13] <tore> hello.  I just uploaded a new version of munin to sid, and it contains a fix that I believe should be synched to ubuntu.  I'm not sure how frozen universe is at this point, but if it is impossible to synch the package entirely, would anyone be interested in sponsoring an upload containing isolated fixes?
[03:50] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:04] <jdong_> hey everyone
[04:17] <pirast> hey jdong_
[04:22] <lophyte> geser: I can vouch for you if you'd like.. unless you've already got other people :P
[04:32] <geser> lophyte: thanks for vouching for me
[04:32] <lophyte> geser: no prob :)
[04:37] <lophyte> geser: I'm sure you've got it... just that only half the CC is there today :P
[05:33] <pirast> sivang, any news on the bootstrap of fpc?
[05:33] <sivang> pirast: none that I've heared of. Ask infinity see what he says
[05:33] <sivang> (IIRC he said he would do it first thing when he wakes up or something)
[05:34] <pirast> sivang, k ill do
[05:37] <sivang> pirast: thanks
[05:40] <pirast> sivang, seems that is afk.. ill tell you when he writes back
[05:41] <sivang> pirast: sure, thanks again.
[05:52] <Le_Vert-Notebook> hello ubuntu devs
[06:11] <pirast> sivang, no reply yet.. i guess he sleeps again.. possbile that he already bootstrapped and we just have to reupload?
[06:15] <sivang> pirast: is there any indication that he already bootstrapped it?
[06:15] <pirast> sivang, no..
[06:16] <sivang> pirast: so we can just try
[06:16] <pirast> yeah
[06:16] <pirast> but i dont have any rights on universe.. sou you'd have to try..
[06:18] <pirast> (sivang)
[06:21] <Le_Vert-Notebook> i'd like to become MOTU
[06:22] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I'm currently maintaining several debian package and I'd like to maintain them in the ubuntu archive
[06:22] <Le_Vert-Notebook> what's the best way
[06:22] <Le_Vert-Notebook> do I need some kind of sponsors to upload them or me ?
[06:24] <geser> you need a sponsor until you are a motu
[06:24] <Le_Vert-Notebook> is there any one here ? :)
[06:25] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I have some useful package like filezilla, museek, audacious
[06:25] <Le_Vert-Notebook> and I'm trying to get a reditribution license for teamspeak
[06:26] <lionelp> Salut Le_Vert-Notebook :)
[06:26] <Le_Vert-Notebook> salut lionelp (qui est-tu?)
[06:26] <lionelp> Actually, Ubuntu is in deep freeze before the release
[06:26] <Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
[06:27] <lionelp> adding packages is not possible
[06:27] <lionelp> you will have to wait that edgy+1 is opened
[06:27] <Le_Vert-Notebook> if someonge is interrested in sponsoring me
[06:27] <Le_Vert-Notebook> you can saiy it right now ;)
[06:27] <Le_Vert-Notebook> but i'll wait, no problem
[06:28] <pirast> as long as your packages are already in debian ubuntu should autosync them in edgy+1
[06:28] <lionelp> Le_Vert-Notebook: all packages in Debian are automaticaly included in Ubuntu
[06:28] <Le_Vert-Notebook> yes but the update are not done
[06:28] <Le_Vert-Notebook> updates
[06:28] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I see aircrack-ng is 0.6 in edgy
[06:28] <Le_Vert-Notebook> and I uploaded 0.6.2 in Debian
[06:29] <pirast> Le_Vert-Notebook, this is caused by the universe freeze
[06:30] <pirast> ubuntu freezes the archives before a release so that syncs are not made anymore in order to make sure that everything works.
[06:30] <Le_Vert-Notebook> okay...
[06:30] <Le_Vert-Notebook> so my help is not needed at all?
[06:31] <lionelp> Le_Vert-Notebook: your help is needed :)
[06:31] <lionelp> all help is welcome :)
[06:31] <ogra> Le_Vert-Notebook, sure your help is needed :=
[06:31] <ogra> :)
[06:31] <Le_Vert-Notebook> i think nobody is more skilled than me for merging and syncing my own packages hehe :)
[06:32] <ogra> right
[06:32] <ogra> thats the point :)
[06:32] <ogra> but ubuntu works a bit different wrt freezes than debian does
[06:33] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I see
[06:33] <Le_Vert-Notebook> is there any guide to help debian contributer to contribute to ubuntu
[06:33] <Le_Vert-Notebook> which summarize the major differences between these two distribs
[06:34] <ogra> i dont thinnk there is a direct comparison page
[06:34] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers has some duties listed an ubuntu developer has to do
[06:34] <ogra> one of the core features of ubuntu vs. debian is that we dont have maintainers ...
[06:35] <ogra> if you are approved for universe uploads, you can touch *any* package in univberse
[06:35] <ogra> same for main developers ...
[06:35] <Le_Vert-Notebook> we have this features two
[06:35] <Le_Vert-Notebook> it's called a NMU, (not maintainer upload)
[06:35] <ogra> we dont have NMUs :)
[06:35] <Le_Vert-Notebook> but it's mostly used only for security fixes or rc bugs fix
[06:36] <ogra> since we dont have maintainers
[06:36] <ogra> if you want to build a feature that involved different packages, you can just do yo
[06:36] <ogra> *so
[06:37] <Le_Vert-Notebook> okay :)
[06:37] <ogra> i.e. if i as ltsp developer build stuff for sound support, i'll tweak the ltsp packages, the esound packages and what else is involved in it ... and i dont have to discuss it with an esd maintainer
[06:37] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I'll make all python-support migrations if you use python-support right now ;)
[06:37] <ogra> currently we only accept RC fixing uploads ...
[06:38] <ogra> our release candidate is scheduled for thursday
[06:38] <Le_Vert-Notebook> so I hope comments are welcome in packaging stuff
[06:38] <ogra> and release is next thursday
[06:38] <Le_Vert-Notebook> because it could be hard for someone to modify somehting in the glibc package :p
[06:38] <ogra> so its unlikely there will be many big changes the next 10 days
[06:38] <ogra> well, glibc is in main
[06:39] <ogra> so youd' be a core developer with some edxperience to edit it
[06:40] <Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
[06:40] <Le_Vert-Notebook> so i'll just have to wait 10 days
[06:40] <Le_Vert-Notebook> and come there again to find a sponsor
[06:40] <ivoks> a bit more
[06:40] <ivoks> edgy+1 won't get open on that same day
[06:41] <Le_Vert-Notebook> k
[06:41] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I'll stay here to see what you discuss about
[06:41] <Le_Vert-Notebook> I could learn interresting stuff about ubuntu ;)
[06:41] <ogra> ivoks, actually i heard rumours that it might even open before release
[06:42] <ivoks> oh, really?
[06:42] <lionelp> are there rumors about the name ?
[06:42] <ogra> rumors :)
[06:42] <ogra> lionelp, yes, indeed there are ...
[06:43] <ivoks> i'm all ears
[06:43] <ivoks> :)
[06:43] <pirast> yeah i'm too :-)
[06:43] <Le_Vert-Notebook> what's the policy about RC bugs
[06:43] <Le_Vert-Notebook> are all package with rc not fixed removed from the archive when releasing ?
[06:43] <ogra> i'm not sure i'm allowed to leak any name decisions already :P
[06:44] <ivoks> eh :/
[06:44] <ogra> Le_Vert-Notebook, nope , all RC bugs should be fixed before release ...
[06:44] <ogra> all others fall under "known issues"
[06:44] <ivoks> i hope next developer meeting won't be in USA
[06:45] <Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
[06:45] <ivoks> i wanted to come, but i've should have apply for visa month ago...
[06:45] <ivoks> so, no chance to get on time :)
[06:45] <sivang> ivoks: right, and it's also so expansive to get there ;-)
[06:45] <ivoks> s/'ve//
[06:46] <ogra> how odd, you need a visa from croatia ?
[06:46] <ivoks> for USA, yes
[06:46] <ogra> evil
[06:46] <ivoks> we can get in EU without passport, but for USA...
[06:46] <phanatic> ogra: even EU members need visa to the US (like Hungarians)
[06:46] <ogra> i can just fill a visa waiver form on the plane
[06:47] <ivoks> ogra: you should see what we have to fill out
[06:47] <ivoks> "Do you support Hitler?" is one of the questions...
[06:47] <phanatic> ivoks: yeah, it's pretty funny...
[06:47] <sivang> ogra: only form certain countries that are covered by the visa waiver program
[06:47] <sivang> ivoks: interesting indeed.
[06:48] <ivoks> my brother went to new jersy two years ago
[06:48] <ivoks> i looked at those papers... couldn't stop laughing
[06:49] <ivoks> it was so funny thath it was actually tragic
[06:49] <ogra> ivoks, insert "isnt he dead?"
[06:49] <ivoks> ogra: eh... then you wouldn't get visa :)
[06:50] <ogra> :)
[06:50] <ivoks> then you have to find someone in USA to guarantee for you
[06:51] <ivoks> i think it's easier to get out of the prison, than get in USA for some countries
[06:51] <sivang> ivoks: it's the same from someone coming from .IL, different questions, same restrictions.
[06:51] <ivoks> heh, yeah... we talked about that
[06:52] <sivang> ;)
[06:52] <ivoks> sivang: israel?
[06:53] <ivoks> or you personaly
[06:53] <sivang> ivoks: ?
[06:53] <sivang> sorry, not sure I follow
[06:53] <ivoks> arghh....
[06:53] <ivoks> my bad
[06:53] <ivoks> forgive me, i have feever :)
[06:54] <sivang> that's okay :)
[06:54] <sivang> Genrally, when the conf is in EU, I can get there with at most 4 hours flight, no visa, no questions asked, nothing.
[06:54] <sivang> and can usually stay there for as long as 6 months
[06:54] <sivang> which is cool
[06:54] <sivang> err, s/6/3/
[06:58] <ogra> i think asia is still missing from the conf list
[06:58] <ogra> as well as africa
[07:00] <sivang> ogra: which part of asia? :)
[07:01] <ogra> no idea
[07:01] <ogra> i'm just guessing wildly
[07:16] <Toadstool> g'morning
[07:20] <zul> africa would be cool..kenya would be cooler
[07:20] <ogra> kenya ? thats not in africa anymore ?
[07:21] <zul> ogra: eh?
[07:22] <ogra> i missed when keya split off from the african continent :)
[07:22] <ogra> *kenya
[07:22] <zul> heh..
[07:26] <ogra> i'd like iceland for a conf once
[07:38] <sivang> no, the next place for a conf should be "Edinbrough, Scotalnd" !
[07:38] <sivang> Riddell: ^^
[07:38] <sivang> then I could put my hands on another pint of belhaven best...oh I'm sick of missing it
[07:39] <sivang> Riddell: had a bottle of New Castle Brown Ale the other day, nice, reminds a bit the falvor of the belhaven
[07:40] <Riddell> sivang: come to http://dot.kde.org/1161090032/ then
[07:44] <sivang> Riddell: where is accomodation going to be for that event?
[07:51] <Riddell> si	youth hostel
[07:51] <Riddell> sivang:
[07:52] <sivang> Riddell: i see
[08:07] <_MMA_> Hello guys. Can anyone tell me who maintains synfig? The one in Edgy?
[08:08] <mr_pouit> _MMA_,  Maintainer: Debian Synfig Maintainers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:D (directly synced from unstable)
[08:09] <_MMA_> Thank you.
[08:09] <_MMA_> Ive been told its broken somehow and would like to get it fixed for +1.
[09:18] <pirast> night
[10:21] <tomveens> hello
[10:22] <tomveens> we are looking for a debootstrap for ubuntu amd64 packaging
[10:22] <tomveens> what kind of ubuntu we can best take?
[10:22] <bhale> depends on the ubuntu you are targetting for your package users
[10:22] <bhale> dapper is the latest stable
[10:22] <bhale> edgy is in rc
[10:23] <tomveens> edgy
[10:23] <tomveens> I just heard we have a good edgy version for debootstrap
[10:28] <lupine_85> ooh, is edgy an rc now?
[10:28] <lupine_85> it seems like just yesterday it was knot 3 ;)
[10:30] <blueyed> Can someone take a look at an "alien" .deb package? It's the one from jEdit and nobody seems to know why it's broken.. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1551924&group_id=588&atid=100588
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1551924 "deb of devel version does not install" [Pri: 9,Open]
[10:32] <tomveens> edgy is already usable:)
[10:33] <blueyed> tomveens: indeed.. since some weeks already.. :)
[10:52] <tomveens> has someone experience with a xen driven virtual machine with a bootstrap from ubuntu for packaging over the internet?
[10:55] <sivang> so, can we still upload unmetdeps fixes and general other fixes to universe?
[10:55] <sivang> ajmitch: ^^
[10:57] <ajmitch> sivang: hm?
[10:58] <ajmitch> you can upload, afaik, just inform/ask us for fixes
[10:58] <ajmitch> no major changes, stuff that's simple & fixes serious bugs
[10:58] <StevenK> Or an archive admin asks you to do. :-P
[10:59] <ajmitch> pretty much
[10:59] <StevenK> ajmitch: infinity asked me to fix hat to build on sparc a few days ago.
[10:59] <ajmitch> lucky you
[10:59] <ajmitch> (sucker)
[10:59] <StevenK> Heh
[10:59] <StevenK> You or dholbach will more than likely be asked about it.
[10:59] <ajmitch> yay
[11:00] <ajmitch> tomveens: yes, ubuntu is easy to setup with debootstrap & xen
[11:00] <sivang> StevenK: heh
[11:00] <ajmitch> you do need the appropriate debootstrap installed
[11:02] <tomveens> what is the appropriate debootstrap?
[11:02] <ajmitch> the one for the distro you're installing
[11:03] <tomveens> I mean, a friend of me is doing this right now here, this is not really my thing, maybe you have tips in doing it some sort of way that can help
[11:04] <tomveens> from experience
[11:04] <ajmitch> if you want to setup edgy, get the debootstrap package from edgy
[11:04] <ajmitch> then it's as simple as xen-create-image --debootstrap --dist edgy --hostname foo
[11:04] <ajmitch> for example
[11:04] <lucas> or just get the source debootstrap package, get the "edgy" file in it, put it in /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts, and enjoy
[11:05] <ajmitch> assuming you're using xen-tools :)
[11:05] <tomveens> yes we are
[11:06] <tomveens> he doesn't talk that much now about the progress, he is concentrated, so I do not now what he is doing now in the process
[11:07] <tomveens> I now he has debootstrap edgy installed, and is trying to run these systems with xen
[11:08] <ajmitch> it's hard to help someone by proxy
[11:09] <tomveens> I know:)
[11:11] <tomveens> Last message is: That the biggest problems are over and it is going to work<End message>
[11:12] <ajmitch> what are you using as the xen host?
[11:13] <tomveens> an Amd64(question answered?)
[11:13] <ajmitch> distro, not hardware
[11:13] <tomveens> debian
[11:14] <ChaosFan> wg 43
[11:16] <tomveens> I just heard that he has replaced the standard xen scripts with his own scripts a few months ago and these he has broken recently, So he says it is not likely anyone can help him fix them
[11:27] <sivang> ajmitch: is Xen easy as 1-2-3 now
[11:27] <sivang> ?
[11:34] <ajmitch> sivang: it's easy enough, will be much easier for edgy+1 (gui tools, etc)
[11:34] <ajmitch> I can setup a new xen domain in a few minues
[11:34] <ajmitch> minutes
[11:35] <sivang> ajmitch: ah, cool
[11:35] <sivang> ajmitch: already specs pending MTV discussions for the GUI tools?
[11:35] <ajmitch> yes
[11:36] <ajmitch> already some RH packages that didn't get into edgy