[21:35] <nivyaj> !info irc
[21:35] <almoxarife> nivyaj: un-intall 'openoffice' assuming the install of 'libreoffice' is an option,
[21:35] <nivyaj> almoxarife:  how do i unstiall in ubuntu
[21:35] <almoxarife> nivyaj: un-in(s)tall 'openoffice' assuming the install of 'libreoffice' is an option,
[21:35] <Seveas> nivyaj, almoxarife: in 10.04, libreoffice is not available. Stick with openoffice
[21:35] <almoxarife> ssss
[21:35] <nivyaj> !info ubuntu
[21:35] <Seveas> !msgthebot > nivyaj
[21:35] <ssta> nivyaj: libreoffice is NOT an option in 10.04
[21:35] <BlueEagle> nivyaj: Did you read the "getting started" guide?
[21:35] <almoxarife> Seveas: nivyaj, sad :(
[21:35] <Fizzik> is there much of a difference between libreoffice and openoffice
[21:36] <ssta> libreoffice and openoffice are (basically) identical
[21:36] <nivyaj> Seveas: i love this bot!
[21:36] <jutnux> Fizzik: LibreOffice is now default, receiving more patches, bug fixes and updates.
[21:36] <almoxarife> libreoffice from their website wont install on 10.04?
[21:36] <RokcStar_> i dont think it was the community that told oracle oh well bye. i think it was that some of the main developers left because of oracle
[21:37] <BlueEagle> nivyaj: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/index.html <= this should help you along nicely.
[21:37] <nivyaj> BlueEagle: thanks :)
[21:37] <nivyaj> You guys are pretty helpful.
[21:37] <Seveas> RokcStar_, and the community was more than happy to follow. You can't trust oracle with open source software/communities. They've killed almost all open source projects they bought when they bought sun.
[21:37] <BlueEagle> nivyaj: Don't thank me. Thank Google. It was the 2nd link when searching for "ubuntu getting started".
[21:38] <nivyaj> oh
[21:41] <PsyForce> I have been having a problem lately with 11.10 logging out instead of shutting down. When I press the power button or go to the menu and then tell the system to shut down, it often goes to the login screen instead. I haven't found any bug reports that are the same, though there are a few people in the forums that have described the same problem. The system *will* shut down fine from the login screen though. Any suggestions?
[21:42] <urlin2u> Psychoholic, using the power button is a g=hard shutdown not used except in an emergency, use the button in the top panel
[21:42] <urlin2u> hard*
[21:42] <PsyForce> right, I'm not holding it down
[21:43] <PsyForce> I'm pressing it, which brings up the shut down pop up
[21:43] <PsyForce> the same as the menua
[21:43] <PsyForce> menu*
[21:43] <urlin2u> PsyForce, ah...I see, not sure never usethe buton
[21:44] <ekscalibour> jutnuxjut can u have a look at: http://pastebin.com/aZrkMGgq
[21:44] <Akiyama-san> someone can help me?
[21:44] <jutnux> !ask Akiyama-san
[21:44] <PsyForce> that's not the issue, a single button press will bring up the shutdown dialogue, same as the menu...but when I hit the shutdown button in the dialogue, it goes to the login screen instead
[21:44] <chekkan_> hey Guys I just started learning c++ using turbo C++ IDE in windows , recently I started exploring programming in linux (Ubuntu) and I got Qt IDE and when started coding my programs in Qt I got stuck in console , I got the working in another IDE like netbeans . The application out put is shows "Enter the no" after entering any input It do nothing like frozen terminal !! HELP me Please
[21:44] <jutnux> !ask | Akiyama-san
[21:44] <MonkeyDust> Akiyama-san  if you're sweet
[21:45] <chekkan_> my simple program to find factorial of n number http://paste.ubuntu.com/804504/
[21:45] <Akiyama-san> hello, I have ubuntu 11.10 installed. Yesterday, i was using my pc normally, when, after closing firefox, i noticed that my wallpaper had been resetted to the ubuntu's default one. I have tried to change it back, but I couldn't. I thought that restarting the pc would solve the problem. After restarting and logging again, I realized that all my configs were gone, they were all resetted to default. I've tried to change my wallpaper back, but doesn't happen
[21:45] <Akiyama-san>  anything, the same happen when trying to add seconds to the clock, for example. Someone know how to help me, please?
[21:45] <jutnux> ekscalibour: What is it meant to be?
[21:45] <ekscalibour> jutnux  can u have a look @ : http://pastebin.com/aZrkMGgq
[21:45] <ekscalibour> my proftpd con f file
[21:45] <jutnux> ekscalibour: I have. What is it meant to be?
[21:45] <Seveas> chekkan_, this is not the most suitable channel for programming support, maybe try stack overflow?
[21:46] <jutnux> ekscalibour: I can't really denote anything from that file.
[21:46] <chekkan_> Seveas, ok
[21:46] <ekscalibour> ty anyway
[21:48] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: noticed 'all my configs'??? besides wallpaper what?
[21:48] <josm> Hi, im having issues with my sources.list. Trying to add only php5 packages from dotdeb but its unable to find Packages.gz. from configfile: "deb http://packages.dotdeb.org stable php5"
[21:48] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, wallpaper, gnome-shell extensions, favorites, themes, etc
[21:49] <Akiyama-san> tried unity, but happens the same
[21:49] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: i am assuming you dont back up your home folder, yes?
[21:50] <nivyaj> i'm new to ubuntu- and my graphics are messed up (there's a flicker that goes on and off). i checked for a graphics driver, but they don't make one in linux
[21:50] <nivyaj> is there a way to mess with the settings?
[21:50] <Akiyama-san> I think I have a very old backup, but assume no
[21:50] <nivyaj> or is the default graphics driver better in v11 of ubuntu
[21:50] <jutnux> nivyaj: Paste the output of lspci | grep VGA
[21:50] <PsyForce> nivyaj: what kind of graphics card do you have?
[21:50] <pyarun> Hey, i am working on some permissions fo my apache config... is it necessary to allow apache access to parent dir if i want to give acccess for child dir
[21:51] <nivyaj> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)
[21:51] <nivyaj> jutnux: PsyForce  (above)
[21:51] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, i don care about losing my configs, just care about my files
[21:51] <merlin__> someone wanna help with boot loader issue? been trying for while now, been here earlier, suggestions were not working.
[21:51] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: it is strange to 'just lose' them, you sure the loss process did not get a little assistance?
[21:51] <merlin__> can't load my windows. just loads straight into linux
[21:52] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, the only thing I did yesterday was a apt-get upgrade
[21:52] <almoxarife> merlin__: good for you
[21:52] <merlin__> why is that good for me
[21:53] <yeats> merlin__: does Windows appear as an option in the GRUB menu?
[21:53] <merlin__> nope, they are on separate drives
[21:53] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: when you look in your home folder you dont see the docs you created in the past?
[21:54] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, my files are OK
[21:54] <POLZO> HI WHATS THE DEFAULT UBUNTU TERMINAL FONT AND SIZE?
[21:54] <yeats> merlin__: when you installed, the Ubuntu installer should have seen that Windows is installed - did it?
[21:54] <Akiyama-san> the only problem is that i can change my system like it was
[21:54] <jutnux> POLZO: Monospace and 10 I believe.
[21:54] <BarkingFish> !caps | POLZO
[21:55] <merlin__> yeah, so it let me pick the other harddrive that was empty, so i did, but some reason i can't boot into it, and it only boots into linux from my main drive that has windows on it
[21:55] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: ok, we are back to the configuration of your desktop then, that is all that changed
[21:55] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, yes
[21:55] <yeats> merlin__: I'm assume others have pointed you to these, but...
[21:55] <Fausterion_> So the only wifi driver I'm offered in 11.10 doesn't work.
[21:55] <mang0> Seveas: Sorry I quit. I've done all the stuff you said to do, should I reboot and choose the Ubuntu sessioN?
[21:55] <Fausterion_> How do I access more propietary drivers?
[21:56] <yeats> !grub | merlin__
[21:56] <Fausterion_> I had one work fine in 10.04
[21:56] <Seveas> mang0, it's worth a try :) If it fails again, pastebin the new .xsession-errors
[21:56] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, every time i try to change the wallpaper nothing happens, and when I add my gnome-shell favorites again, they disappear after a reboot
[21:56] <mang0> !propietary | Fausterion_
[21:56] <northernen> Hello. How can I have Unity always show side panel? Also, how do I enable "top bar always on"?
[21:56] <Akiyama-san> for example
[21:56] <POLZO> jutnux: really? it doesn't seem like Monospace
[21:56] <merlin__> but i have ubuntu 11
[21:56] <mang0> damn. was just a guess Fausterion_ ,  sorry :P
[21:56] <merlin__> will that matter?
[21:56] <jutnux> POLZO: Try Ubuntu 10/11 then.
[21:56] <mang0> Seveas: Okay, brb then! :)
[21:56] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: are you logging into a desktop that is not the one you usually log into? say unity2d/verses unity, or gnome simple/verser blingy? i forget the two gnome option names
[21:57] <Akiyama-san> now i am on unity
[21:57] <yeats> merlin__: you might also explore whether rescatux/supergrub would help: http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
[21:57] <merlin__> my grub menu loads but it dont show windows. however i can access all the files and programs from linux.  does this help? there has to be something.
[21:57] <merlin__> alright i will try some things you mentioned
[21:57] <yeats> merlin__: GRUB2 hasn't changed significantly
[21:57] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: now? as in you were in something else before?
[21:58] <buschwusch_> test
[21:58] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, I usually just use gnome-shell, I logged into unity to see if the problem happens here too
[21:58] <POLZO> jutnux: 10 = 10 pt.?
[21:58] <Fausterion_> Don't know what you're getting at mango.
[21:59] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: gnome-shell is not unity, expect differences
[21:59] <kunji> I know shouldn't ask to ask, but this might be kind of lengthy so... if anyone wants to take a crack at helping me connect to an Oracle database with MDB2 I would really appreciate it.
[22:00] <Akiyama-san> almoxarife, I know, but the same problem happens in both
[22:00] <Akiyama-san> my priority is to fix the shell
[22:00] <TheBuntu> Does ubuntu have a package to trun system services off
[22:00] <Akiyama-san> although, i thing the cause is the same for both
[22:00] <northernen> How can I have Unity always show side panel? Also, how do I disable "top bar" auto-hiding? (Ubuntu 11.10)
[22:01] <mang0> Seveas: No luck. "failed to load session 'ubuntu". :/
[22:01] <jutnux> northernen: Install the compiz settings manager.
[22:02]  * AlbertoP looks for LUKS experts
[22:03] <mang0> Seveas: I really want to avaiid a whole reinstall if I can :/ that's so much faf, and just from a darn window manager too!
[22:03] <mang0> avoid*
[22:03] <almoxarife> Akiyama-san: to fix it you need the backup, you dont have it, i have one last thing to recommend and i am out of answers, i assume you are in 11.10, there is a back up scheme, rather simple and effective, i use it for times just like the one you presented
[22:04] <haffe> Hello people. I am reading a book on apache, and I was wondering. Is the guide valid that one should have a conf a htdocs a log and a cgi-bin directory for every site?
[22:04] <willwh> howdy folks - how do I stop apache autostarting on boot? I ran update-rc.d -f apache2 remove; however, /etc/rc2.d/S31apache still exists - if I do, update-rc.d -f apache remove - it returns "this is not a link to apache2, not removing" - which is totally incorrect
[22:04] <willwh> opening the script - it clearly starts apache2
[22:04] <willwh> wtf?
[22:04] <almoxarife> willwh: #apache?
[22:04] <willwh> haffe: you certainly don't need to
[22:04] <willwh> almoxarife: why?
[22:04] <mang0> Slart: Hey, you there?
[22:04] <willwh> that is nothing to do with SysV / upstart
[22:05] <RokcStar_> i remember dealing with that
[22:05] <MorbidAngel> hi
[22:05] <forhak> hey guis i have a big broblem with ubunto
[22:05] <MorbidAngel> where i can find free shell acc ?
[22:05] <RokcStar_> apache2 auto-starting
[22:05] <willwh> MorbidAngel: not here
[22:05] <MorbidAngel> where ?
[22:05] <willwh> RokcStar_: and?
[22:06] <caffine> both f-spot and photoshot are having issues reading the timestamp of the pictures from my evo3d. is there a tool that will read the modified date of the photo, set it properly in the exif data, then set the modified time back to what it was originally? i've looked around and am not seeing anything that looks like it will do that.
[22:06] <Somelauw> Hi, why does everyone say vlc is better. I had much less problems with totem than with vlc.
[22:06] <jutnux> MorbidAngel: #anapnea, but stay on topic.
[22:06] <MorbidAngel> ok ty
[22:06] <jutnux> Somelauw: VLC has more plugins and can play more file types.
[22:06] <willwh> Somelauw: it gives very good debug output
[22:06] <RokcStar_> i couldnt quite figure it out because i was new with linux..but i ended up making a bash command that would stop its service - dumb i know lol
[22:06] <willwh> RokcStar_: yeah
[22:07] <MonkeyDust> ot: i've seen morbid angel live
[22:07] <mongy> MorbidAngel, http://www.freeshells.info/
[22:07] <willwh> I am just going to manually remove the S31apache from rc2.d
[22:07] <MorbidAngel> thank you guys
[22:07] <Somelauw> Maybe it's my computer, but vlc feels pretty unstable, actually
[22:07] <willwh> Somelauw: totally stable here :]
[22:08] <forhak> i have big brobleme with le ubunt
[22:08] <forhak> it does not want to compute
[22:08] <forhak> what i do?
[22:08] <mang0> Seveas: Going to paste .xsessions-error again, 1s
[22:09] <MonkeyDust> !fr| forhak better give us more details, 'won't compute' is too vague
[22:09] <forhak> monkeydust my computer dont like ubuntu yo
[22:09] <RokcStar_> lol
[22:09] <mang0> http://paste.ubuntu.com/804539 Seveas new paste
[22:09] <MonkeyDust> forhak  don't like and won't compute is still too vague
[22:10] <forhak> its like; homie dont copy my swagger
[22:10] <mang0> rofl
[22:10] <forhak> and then boom boom pow
[22:10] <forhak> always the boom boom pow
[22:10] <mang0> lmao
[22:10] <MonkeyDust> heh
[22:10] <mang0> forhak: you're gonna get kicked man haha
[22:10] <mang0> funny though :D
[22:10] <forhak> mang0 ;)
[22:10] <RokcStar_> lool
[22:10] <BarkingFish> forhak: do you think you could speak english and explain what is actually wrong with it?  :)
[22:11] <BarkingFish> if it don't like ubuntu, what is it doing and what kind of problems is it having?
[22:11] <RokcStar_> forhak, did your computer ever compute or has it always been boom boom pow?
[22:11] <forhak> hehe
[22:11] <forhak> everythin be boom boom pow these days yo
[22:12] <MonkeyDust> yo
[22:12] <RokcStar_> maybe you can try ubuntu alternate
[22:12] <mang0> woah deja vu moment
[22:12] <forhak> barkingfish how did u manage to come on with with tor proxy?
[22:13] <Somelauw> willwh: Did you install it manually or just use the version from the ubuntu repos?
[22:13] <magn3ts> Is there any hope for me getting more than 150 kBps out of (us.archive) Ubuntu today?
[22:13] <forhak> magn3ts try another one?
[22:13] <BarkingFish> forhak: I'm not on through a tor proxy
[22:13] <magn3ts> forhak: how?
[22:14] <Bogdaniel> magn3ts downloaded today the updates on two machines with 4mb/s from repos :D + software installs ... :D
[22:14] <l_r> what is the version of gcc in the latest ubuntu?
[22:15] <kaetzchen> hello, can anyone tell me in which file is the list of recently used files saved? and/or which tool/daemon/whatever maintains this list?
[22:15] <MonkeyDust> l_r  Version: 4:4.6.1-2ubuntu5
[22:15] <l_r> thx
[22:16] <mang0> Seveas: You there? :3 sorry....lol
[22:16] <ubuntu> brauche hilfe, kann ubuntu 10.04 nicht mehr hochfahren, habe normalerweise auf autostart stehen, aber wo ich meinen rechner vorhin hochgefahren habe wollte er, das ich mich anmelde. das mein passwort funktioniert aber nicht, was kann ich da machen, das passwort ist richtig, und ich habe es auch schon mit der bildschiermtastertur eingegeben aber es geht nicht
[22:16] <MonkeyDust> !de| ubuntu
[22:16] <mang0> !de
[22:23] <sofaking> who *
[22:24] <rebe> when new ubuntu version gone be released ?
[22:24] <magn3ts_> 12.04
[22:24] <magn3ts_> means april 2012
[22:24] <sofaking> Anybody familiar with iftop?  Trying to find out if there is a way to prevent the bar graph from autosizing.
[22:25] <magn3ts_> also, more info is here rebe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[22:25] <rebe> thx
[22:30] <mang0> Seveas: Sorry, I D/C'd without noticing
[22:30] <user_k> how to setup a PAN connection with usb dongles? howto around the web explain only for bluetooth 3.x, noyt for bluetooth4
[22:32] <kunji> user_k: I don't know anything about it, but out of curiosity, what is a PAN connection?
[22:33] <user_k> Personal Area Network (range 10meters)
[22:34] <mang0> exit
[22:34] <mang0> oops
[22:37] <sofaking> Anyone know how to prevent the bar graph in iftop from auto-sizing
[22:37] <MonkeyDust> !info iftop
[22:38] <kunji> user_k: thanks
[22:38] <mrdeb> hi, is unity there for lucid 1004 now and is it stable
[22:38] <mrdeb> ?
[22:38] <FloodBot1> !netsplit
[22:39] <ssta> mrdeb: not for lucid AFAIK.  "stable" is a matter of opinion
[22:40] <rebe> do I need firewall on ubuntu ?
[22:40] <Sivik> It is suggested to run a HW or SW firewall
[22:40] <Somelauw> Does anyone know a good tool, to lower the resolution of a video, because my laptop can't handle it?
[22:40] <mrdeb> ssta, i read you can do apt-get install unity on lucid. is this true
[22:40] <northernen> Is there a global setting which I can enable so that I don't have a hover to the top of screen to be able to see the menu?
[22:41] <Sivik> Somelauw, you can either do it in the xorg.conf or do it with the driver control panel
[22:41] <ssta> mrdeb: Not as far as I know it's not...
[22:41] <Rallias> do the instructions for creating a liveusb found at http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download work for lubuntu?
[22:41] <ctcsadmin> Hello, I am trying to install boxes on Ubuntu 11.10. I have tried searching google for information. Ubuntu says it's install, yet when I go to launch it, nothing happens.
[22:41] <ssta> mrdeb: try it and see I guess
[22:41] <mrdeb> well i read you can, so who knows this
[22:41] <Sivik> Rallias, they should work with any .iso ubuntu version
[22:41] <mrdeb> i am not on lucid, but i need to know now
[22:41] <Rallias> Sivik thanks
[22:41] <Somelauw> Sivik: Actually I want to scale down the video, not my display.
[22:41] <Sivik> Rallias, yw
[22:41] <mrdeb> who is using lucid
[22:41] <sofaking> Somelauw: Perhaps Handbrake?
[22:42] <sofaking> !info handbrake
[22:42] <ssta> https://launchpad.net/unity
[22:42] <daifit> can anyone help me with a terminal command that lists historical events/ "this day in history"?
[22:42] <ssta> mrdeb: not seeing any lucid packages
[22:42] <ctcsadmin> When type sudo apt-get update at the end it says apt.boxee.tv blah blah 403 forbidden
[22:42] <ubuntunoob> anyone know how to lower the brightness on a macbook pro 2,2 ? i have been searching google and have found no results
[22:42] <mrdeb> wow ok, well hmmm
[22:43] <Rallias> also, the i686 cutoff means I can use a pentium 4 with ubuntu, right?
[22:43] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob: pour water on it
[22:43] <Somelauw> I hate stuff not in the repo
[22:44] <Somelauw> I will try later. I am wondering if this is a linux problem. I will try playing it on windows.
[22:44] <sofaking> It might be
[22:44] <sofaking> You may need proprietary video drivers
[22:44] <mrdeb> who knows if unity is for lucid
[22:45] <ubuntunoob> no smart aleck responses please
[22:45] <ssta> mrdeb: it appears not to be
[22:45] <Somelauw> !info avidemux
[22:45] <Rallias> sofaking: you can install it if you really wanted it.
[22:45] <sofaking> !info transcode
[22:45] <mrdeb> oh now
[22:45] <mrdeb> no
[22:45] <mrdeb> is skype free on ubuntu
[22:46] <ubuntunoob> does anyone know how to lower the brightness macbook pro 2,2 on ubuntu 11.04 natty?
[22:46] <sofaking> Free as in beer, yes
[22:46] <datruth_> I have 12gb of ram install on my laptop i installed 11.10 ubuntu 64bit and it only sees 11.7
[22:46] <ubuntunoob> free as in open source no
[22:46] <datruth_> what happened to the rest of the ram?
[22:46] <ssta> datruth_: video maybe?
[22:46] <samijam> where is the free beer?
[22:46] <io> !skype > mrdeb
[22:46] <ubuntunoob> lol its a metaphor samijam
[22:46] <datruth_> ssta: I have 3gb of dedi video ram
[22:47] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob: doesnt the laptop have keys to raise and lower that? maybe those keys arent working?
[22:47] <ssta> datruth_: also note that hardware manufacturers and Linux often disagree about exactly how big a MB is...
[22:47] <ubuntunoob> OMG  WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE KEEP SAYTHIING THAT
[22:47] <ubuntunoob> i tried that twice
[22:47] <datruth_> ssta: so maybe thats just how it reads it in linux?
[22:47] <ubuntunoob> it doesnt work !! :P
[22:47] <datruth_> ssta: I had windows vista on the laptop that saw 12gb
[22:47] <hail> is there any one on here that has experience using quickly to write python programs
[22:47] <northernen> Is there a global setting which I can enable so that I don't have a hover to the top of screen to be able to see the menu?
[22:48] <ctcsadmin> Can anyone help me figure out what went wrong with my boxee install on Ubuntu?
[22:48] <ubuntunoob> the brightness keys do not work
[22:48] <ssta> datruth_: hardware manufactorers will often claim that 10^9bytes=1GB, whereas Linux will tend to claim that 2^30bytes is 1GB.  They're fairly close, but not the same (10^9 is smaller)
[22:48] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob: yea ..then you might have to tweak your setup. i had to tweak those keys for a netbook once for that to work
[22:48] <ubuntunoob> rokcstar please elaborate
[22:48] <datruth_> ssta: so 11.7 from 12 i shouldn't worry about this?
[22:48] <mrdeb> does skype work on ekiga or what do you install then
[22:48] <ubuntunoob> how i go about it
[22:49] <pnorman> RAM is done in powers of two - the difference could be from memory that is reserved for some reason or another.
[22:49] <ssta> datruth_: I wouldn't think it matters, no
[22:49] <datruth_> ssta: okay just wondering I was concerned of a defective system
[22:50] <mrdeb> is ekiga like skype or what
[22:51] <mrdeb> wow so ekiga works ok like skype for free
[22:52] <paulsomebody> I am experiencing an issue connecting to the Windows workgroup from my Ubuntu machine. The error message says «Unable to mount location. Failed to retrieve share list from server». I have checked my smb.conf file as most howto's and guides on the topic advise to do, for no avail. Any advice?
[22:53] <ubuntunoob> would upgrading the kernel from 2.6.38-13 fix the problem or is it something different?
[22:53] <ubuntunoob> TO 3.2.0
[22:53] <daifit> Anyone know the terminal command that lists historical events/ "this day in history"?
[22:54] <Spyros> calendar is one ,
[22:54] <Rallias> daifit "lynx http://google.com/search?q=this+day+in+history"
[22:54] <daifit> holy cow, thank you!
[22:55] <Tech-1> moo
[22:55] <paulsomebody> Hey, can anyone help me with Samba? My google foo seems to fail me in this case.
[22:55] <ubuntunoob> i know you guys are volunteers and all, but ffs theres like 100 people here
[22:56] <Rallias> ubuntunoob: your point is?
[22:56] <ubuntunoob> how long should i have to wait
[22:56] <paulsomebody> ubuntunoob: What is your problem again?
[22:57] <ubuntunoob> my point is you take 30 minutes just to answer 1 question
[22:57] <ctcsadmin> Can anybody help me with boxee on Ubuntu?
[22:57] <fman23> ctcsadmin: yes, what do u need?
[22:57] <jrib> !patience | ubuntunoob
[22:57] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob: what version of ubuntu do you have
[22:57] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: shoot
[22:57] <jrib> ubottu: more importantly, stick to support.
[22:58] <ubuntunoob> ubuntu natty
[22:58] <jrib> oops
[22:58] <jrib> ubuntunoob: more importantly, stick to support.
[22:58] <ctcsadmin> fman23, Ubuntu says it's installed, but when I try to launch it it doesn't.
[22:58] <fman23> ctcsadmin: open a terminal window and type in "/opt/boxee/Boxee"
[22:58] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob: and what model is your mac book
[22:58] <ubuntunoob> macbook pro 2,2
[22:58] <fman23> and tell me if anything starts with "[Error]"
[22:58] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: what fman23 said :)
[22:59] <ctcsadmin> fman23, If I type sudo apt-get update at the end it says something about cannot update apt.boxee.tv 403 forbidden
[22:59] <fman23> ctcsadmin: oh wait, did u try to install a repo?
[22:59] <fman23> ctcsadmin: boxee abanded that i thought
[22:59] <ctcsadmin> fman23, Why would I be forbidden, unless the links are not correct.
[23:00] <fman23> ctcsadmin: download the .deb and install that, and remove those lines from ur repo list
[23:00] <ctcsadmin> fman23, Yes, I went right to boxee.tv and downloaded the package.
[23:00] <ctcsadmin> fman23, is there another way to install boxee?
[23:00] <fman23> ctcsadmin: open a terminal window and type in "/opt/boxee/Boxee"
[23:00] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: what version you got? ubuntu?
[23:00] <shomon> hi, what is the apt package to install so as to have a larger cursor or other things for partially blind people?
[23:00] <ctcsadmin> almoxarife, 11.10 32bit
[23:01] <fman23> shomon: it should be in the accessibilty section in the system settings i would think
[23:01] <ubuntunoob> ^
[23:01] <shomon> yes, but this is for someone with lubuntu. I know they can install ubuntu packages
[23:01] <shomon> so I'd like to know the name of the package
[23:01] <Fudge> shomon  vinuxproject.org is ubuntu customized for the visually impaired
[23:01] <datruth_> is there an issue with ubuntu 11.10 64bit?
[23:01] <ubuntunoob> i think its the same tho
[23:01] <shomon> I have it system->preferences-> assistive technologies
[23:01] <shomon> but I can't see the name of the package
[23:01] <ctcsadmin> fman23, almoxarife, a friend of mine gave me a shuttle pc, so I am trying to turn it into a htpc, figured it would be perfect for it.
[23:02] <fman23> ctcsadmin: oh i just did that not long ago
[23:02] <fman23> ctcsadmin: i used xbmclive and compiled boxee for it
[23:02] <shomon> ah thanks Fudge
[23:02] <grendal_prime> shuttle as in ...space shuttle?
[23:02] <fman23> ctcsadmin: but that might be a little daunting
[23:02] <fman23> ctcsadmin: ok first, use lxde or something lightweight so it doesnt bog it down
[23:03] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: i have boxee on 11.04, i just did a ppa check for boxee on 11.10, didnt find one, i thought i installed it from a d/l, that what you did?
[23:03] <fman23> ctcsadmin: next, intall boxee like normal.  finally, add "/opt/boxee/Boxee -fs" to the startup list
[23:03] <RokcStar_> ubuntunoob, im not sure if this will work for u, but https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro6-2/Natty
[23:04] <ctcsadmin> almoxarife, yes, downloaded the package right from boxee.tv
[23:04] <fman23> ctcsadmin: and double clicked it and hit install?
[23:04] <Fudge> shomon  there is a mailing list etc too but if u like there is  a channel on freenode or u can privmsg me
[23:05] <shomon> no thanks Fudge - I just wanted the name of the package really
[23:05] <milamber> fman23: if he downloaded it, he should probably check the executable bit
[23:05] <shomon> I installed gnome-desktop to get all that stuff.. but my friend's laptop is quite old.. I don't think it can handle more than lubuntu
[23:05] <fman23> ctcsadmin: try running /opt/boxee/Boxee in terminal
[23:05] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: boxee on my htc works pretty straight forward without extra configuration, i am confused about running boxee and the error you brought up, the error is related to installing not running it
[23:06] <bubu> hi guys, can you swap directories between machines if using same ubuntu release? want to bring a server from ec2 down and thought about rsyncing the 2 servers for apps, users etc..?
[23:06] <fman23> almoxarife: im trying to c if he has it installed
[23:06] <almoxarife> fman23: cool
[23:07] <ctcsadmin> fman23, when I run that I get an error that says: error while loading shared libraries: libcrypto
[23:07] <bubu> like, could i swap my ec2 /etc/ folder for my local one?
[23:07] <fman23> ctcsadmin: that is a good error, install libcrypto+ i tihnk
[23:07] <bubu> you need libcrypto ctcsadmin
[23:07] <fman23> !find libcrypto++ | ctcsadmin
[23:08] <bubu> apt-cache search ;ibcrypto
[23:08] <fman23> install libcrypto++9
[23:08] <bubu> anyone any help with my question??
[23:08] <fman23> bubu: what is it?
[23:08] <bubu> can i swap the /etc/ folder from one server to another as long as same ubuntu release?
[23:08] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: what process did you use to install boxee?
[23:09] <bubu> /etc/ folder is an example there
[23:09] <Rallias> is using a liveusb considered stable or are there known quirks that happen time and again?
[23:09] <fman23> bubu: yeah, i would think so. unless u have hardware specific settings in it
[23:09] <bubu> want to copy over all applications, users etc
[23:09] <bubu> Rallias, good usb key = pretty stable
[23:09] <ctcsadmin> almoxarife, I went to boxee.tv and I downloaded the install package. Then installed it.
[23:09] <ctcsadmin> almoxarife, that's all I know.
[23:09] <Rallias> mmk thanks
[23:09] <jeff__> Hi guys, I want to get my music on my Mac OS X partition and I don't know how to do that
[23:09] <padmick1> hi
[23:10] <jeff__> it always says that I don't have the permission
[23:10] <bubu> xbmc live ctcsadmin
[23:10] <Rallias> also, is it possible to get the current version of banshee in the repositories to work with forked-daapd?
[23:10] <fman23> ctcsadmin: did u install libcrypto++9?
[23:10] <jongbergs> !ot | jeff__
[23:10] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: its odd that the dependencies were not installed at that time
[23:10] <kunji> jeff__:.... OSX.. I remember it being troublesome
[23:10] <jeff__> yeah on ubuntu it is
[23:10] <kunji> i assume you tried as superuser?
[23:11] <jeff__> I finally achieved to make my brightness control work
[23:11] <jeff__> me? no didn't try 'cause I'm kinda new to work with Ubuntu
[23:11] <bubu> fman23,
[23:11] <bubu> which folders woult you *not* copy over..?
[23:12] <bubu> boot / sys / proc ?
[23:12] <padmick1> does any1 know how to fix a wubi?
[23:12] <fman23> yes, those three are definites
[23:12] <bubu> try their channel padmick1
[23:12] <almoxarife> padmick1: yes
[23:12] <bubu> hmm
[23:12] <fman23> bubu: anything related to xorg
[23:12] <almoxarife> bubu: this is the channel!
[23:12] <fman23> bubu: i wouldnt copy those over
[23:12] <fman23> ctcsadmin: did u install libcrypto++9?
[23:13] <bubu> hmm
[23:13] <almoxarife> padmick1: looking at a grub menu?
[23:13] <ctcsadmin> fman23, yes same error
[23:13] <fman23> ctcsadmin: hmm, were there any errors on install?
[23:14] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: i would do the far simpler re-install
[23:14] <padmick1> ya i can bring up terminal but all rest gibberish to me
[23:14] <fman23> ctcsadmin: or a better question would be, have u done any modification to ubuntu?
[23:14] <ctcsadmin> fman23, nope, no errors
[23:14] <kunji> jeff__: do   'sudo su'   and then give your password, then you should be superuser, try copying the files again then, use  'exit' to leave superuser mode when you're done.  Usually to execute something as superuser you just want to do the one thing though, so 'sudo cp -r folderlocation folderdestination'
[23:14] <Rahail-m> have any try that ubuntu tv
[23:14] <Rahail-m> interface
[23:14] <benuphoenix> Is it sane to use a usb stick for / , /usr, and have /home, /tmp, /var, swap on a hdd?
[23:14] <ctcsadmin> fman23, no fresh install of 11.10 right from ubuntu
[23:14] <bubu> fman23, /lib/udev/rules.d/66-xorg-synaptics.rules ?? yay or nay??
[23:14] <fman23> Rahail-m: i actually like it mostly, im considering installing gnome on my htpc just for it
[23:15] <almoxarife> padmick1: you got the broke 'wubibuilder' thing going, lets hope, cause that is an easy fix from the windows side
[23:15] <datruth_> how do I get a pae kernel on a 64 bit install ?
[23:15] <fman23> bubu: that wouldnt matter
[23:15] <fman23> bubu: i dont think
[23:15] <padmick1> ok how can i check
[23:15] <mongy> datruth_, you don't need one
[23:15] <DaZ> datruth_: why would you want to? :x
[23:15] <Rahail-m> fman23 cool... what kind system you used to install it
[23:16] <datruth_> DaZ: just searching for any reason why my system does see all 12gb only 11.7
[23:16] <Rahail-m> I am trying to find small sbc so that way I dont have to hear ps sound or HD sound kind of noisy put tv next pc
[23:16] <datruth_> or maybe its howing me th useable ram?
[23:16] <benuphoenix> I mean, would using a flash drive for / and /usr make sense?
[23:16] <datruth_> in the system monitor?
[23:16] <Guest3921> hallo
[23:16] <almoxarife> padmick1: the check is 'you find yourself in a grub repair terminal instead of the one you are used to'
[23:16] <Guest3921> wassap people
[23:16] <LinuxGuy2009> Is there a package to walk me through signing a local package repository so that software center works with it? Or some kind of guide?
[23:17] <fman23> Rahail-m: actually, i used my dad's dead laptop, lol
[23:17] <_Dom> Hi, my problem is straight forward. "there is no sound card". I'm using ubuntu in a virtual machine and it doesn't launch this music app i made in C++. Same in my Linux Mint virtual machine, however in my pinguy OS virtual machine, I haven o problems at all..
[23:17] <fman23> Rahail-m: took out the hard drive and run it off of sd card
[23:17] <padmick1> whats the difference?
[23:17] <kunji> datruth_: yeah, it typically shows a little less, not sure why mine says 7.8 GiB, but it's 8 of course.
[23:17] <DaZ> datruth_: it's normal, i think :x
[23:17] <fman23> Rahail-m: a big plus is that my dad's laptop came with a remote
[23:17] <almoxarife> padmick1: i'll give you the link to the fix i used while i used wubi, lets hope its still up to date
[23:18] <padmick1> k thanks
[23:18] <fman23> ctcsadmin: ok so u r still having the same error?
[23:18] <Rahail-m> aha but what about the powersupplyu
[23:18] <ctcsadmin> fman23, yes
[23:18] <fman23> Rahail-m: well right now, it is just plugged into surge protector
[23:18] <almoxarife> padmick1: and if you are talking to me you add my nick to the conversation, its hard to pull you out of the hash
[23:18] <_Dom> Hi, my problem is straight forward. "there is no sound card". I'm using ubuntu in a virtual machine and it doesn't launch this music app i made in C++. Same in my Linux Mint virtual machine, however in my pinguy OS virtual machine, I haven o problems at all..
[23:18] <Rahail-m> powersupply make noise to some one told me to use those sbc cant locate one yet
[23:18] <jmwpc> how can I lock the cdrom so it cannot be ejected using the button? (we are babysitting a 2 year old who likes to endlessly press these buttons and slam the tray closed) I tried 'sudo echo 1 > /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/lock' as suggested on a forum, but got a Permission denied error
[23:18] <fman23> ctcsadmin: install libcrypto++-utils
[23:18] <jongbergs> hi, im having a trouble with intalling 11.10 both 32-bit and 64-bit on HP Pavilion p7-1010d destkop PC. it seems the machine doesn't recognized the gui. I have installed ubuntu finally using alternate-cd, however i'm locked up locked at the login screen. Any ideas what may have cause this?
[23:19] <_Dom> Everyone's asking everyone here, i have no chance in getting an answer to my problem..
[23:19] <benuphoenix> Hello? I need partitioning help?
[23:19] <padmick1> ok almoxarife
[23:19] <fman23> Rahail-m: sbc?
[23:19] <_Dom> Hi, my problem is straight forward. "there is no sound card". I'm using ubuntu in a virtual machine and it doesn't launch this music app i made in C++. Same in my Linux Mint virtual machine, however in my pinguy OS virtual machine, I haven o problems at all..
[23:19] <fman23> benuphoenix: i can help
[23:19] <Seperand> root
[23:20] <x_coder> fman23, you can install straight to an SD Card and boot off without any special setup?
[23:20] <Rahail-m> fman23 like those wrap board some some board that do not need big powersupply
[23:20] <benuphoenix> fman23: if I use both hdd and usb stick, what goes on the usb stick?
[23:20] <Rahail-m> build in processor and memory (aka the current market settop box board something like that
[23:21] <fman23> x_coder: sure, just use the default install thing and select the sd card instead of a hard drive
[23:21] <almoxarife> padmick1: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/bootinfoscript/index.php?title=Boot_Problems:Wubi_9.10 <-- see the wubi version? there may be a difference if the wubi you got is newer, but the issue is spelled out
[23:21] <fman23> benuphoenix: nothing unless u specifically tell it
[23:21] <fman23> it defaults to hard drive
[23:21] <benuphoenix> I mean, what should I put on it?
[23:21] <_Dom> Hi, my problem is straight forward. "there is no sound card". I'm using Ubuntu in a virtual machine and it doesn't launch this music app I made in C++. Same in my Linux Mint virtual machine, however in my Pinguy OS virtual machine, I haven no problems at all...
[23:22] <no-name-> I am running 10.10 (32-bit)
[23:22] <no-name-> how do I get around this? does it just mean my kernel is not supported? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/534881/
[23:22] <fman23> benuphoenix: oh, do u want to use it as extra ram? although unless u have 64-bit, it would be kinda pointless
[23:22] <x_coder> fman23, and I can install grub to the card without using /dev/sda mbr?
[23:22] <fman23> x_coder: yeah, if u install to sd card, it installs grub to boot to the sd card
[23:22] <fman23> oh wait
[23:22] <fman23> x_coder: sry, had to reread that, u would need to tell it to install grub to sd card
[23:23] <jongbergs> _Dom: just some idea..couldn't be something related to c++?
[23:23] <x_coder> fman23, great, thanks.
[23:23] <fman23> x_coder: it is close to the end of setup but there is an option for it
[23:23] <fman23> ctcsadmin: did installing libcrypto++-utils help?
[23:23] <pp7> how do u get marlin to refresh a folder?
[23:23] <benuphoenix> fman23: I want to use it to store system files that are accessed a lot so that the hdd makes less noise
[23:24] <datruth_> I just inatalled 11.10 I thought I would have a gnome desktop how do I get rid of unity and get gnome ?
[23:24] <almoxarife> _Dom: use the same audio setup for ubuntu you are using for the one that works, no other ideas
[23:24] <_Dom> jongbergs as a matter of fact yes though it compiles.. so i don't see why it works in pinguy and not ubuntu or mint. PM ?
[23:24] <_Dom> almoxarife how do i do that exactly, i'm not familiar with linux ?
[23:24] <benuphoenix> fman23:  Like root partition
[23:24] <fman23> benuphoenix: oh then, put mount point / on the usb drive and /home on the hdd.  but that setup is non-optimal.  the usb drive is much slower than the hard drive
[23:24] <fman23> and if the usb drive is removed, ur comp cant boot
[23:25] <jongbergs> datruth_: install gnome-shell, in the terminal sudo apt-get install gnome-shell
[23:25] <robin0800> ! nounity | datruth_
[23:25] <robin0800> ! notunity | datruth_
[23:25] <almoxarife> _Dom: no idea
[23:26] <datruth_> thx'
[23:28] <fman23> ctcsadmin: did installing libcrypto++-utils help?
[23:28] <padmick1> almoxarife u wouldent know if a wubi created using a ubuntu on a boot cd is the same and if so where would it be stored?
[23:28] <soalgoritmo> hi
[23:29] <soalgoritmo> somebody?;
[23:29] <fman23> soalgoritmo: welcome to the ubuntu irc channel, do you need help with your installation?
[23:29] <padmick1> almoxarife?
[23:30] <soalgoritmo> friend i need help
[23:30] <ctcsadmin> fman23, no same error
[23:30] <soalgoritmo> for other thing]
[23:30] <Jordan_U> padmick1: What happens when you try to boot currently?
[23:30] <ctcsadmin> almoxarife, I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the package, get the same error
[23:30] <soalgoritmo> i know that this serve about ubuntu, but i am using the back track,
[23:30] <fman23> ctcsadmin: hmm, u said 32-bit?
[23:30] <almoxarife> padmick1: wubi is a windows installed ubuntu install, that is what i know it to be,
[23:31] <ctcsadmin> yes
[23:31] <soalgoritmo> and I need to install mysql
[23:31] <Jordan_U> !backtrack | soalgoritmo
[23:31] <padmick1> i get a hole load of errors jordan-u
[23:31] <ctcsadmin> fman23, I downloaded the i486 package from boxes, that is what comes up when I go to download it on firefox from the machine.
[23:31] <fman23> ctcsadmin: try a reinstall "sudo apt-get remove boxee --purge" then reinstall it
[23:31] <soalgoritmo> ok
[23:32] <soalgoritmo> but i am not achieve to speak some people of backtrack
[23:32] <almoxarife> ctcsadmin: what fman23 said
[23:32] <padmick1> what is a boot disk install called then? almoxarife
[23:33] <ctcsadmin> fman23, ok now how should i install it, from the package, or from apt-get?
[23:33] <osmosis> is it safe to install python3? Will it break my system?
[23:33] <soalgoritmo> how i find the back track
[23:33] <fman23> ctcsadmin: it shouldnt be found in apt-get?
[23:33] <faina> osmosis: if you install the ubuntu python3 it should be fine -- ubuntu has pretty good support for keeping all the versions of python seperate
[23:33] <fman23> soalgoritmo: backtrack linux is available at backtracklinux.org i think, let me check
[23:33] <faina> (may not apply if you install from python.org)
[23:33] <Jordan_U> padmick1: We can't help you until you give us a better description of the problem. Go through what you see when you boot, if at some point you see a lot of errors scrolling by say that (in addition to the other parts of boot) and tell us what the last error message is as exactly as you can.
[23:33] <almoxarife> padmick1: that would not be a 'wubi' install, a 'vanilla install'??
[23:34] <soalgoritmo> ok
[23:34] <ctcsadmin> fman23, I don't know I haven't tried
[23:34] <fman23> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/
[23:34] <fman23> ctcsadmin: well just double click .deb package
[23:34] <ctcsadmin> fman23, should I try or should I just install from the package?
[23:34] <ctcsadmin> ok
[23:34] <ctcsadmin> it'll launch the software center, and it will install from there.
[23:35] <padmick1> how do i fix a vanilla install???????
[23:36] <MonkeyDust> padmick1  try bleachbit
[23:36] <fman23> padmick1: what is the problem?
[23:36] <ctcsadmin> fman23, ok done, same error
[23:36] <Jordan_U> padmick1: We can not help you until you give a better description of the problem. Right now you are frankly wasting your and our time.
[23:36] <fman23> ctcsadmin: one second
[23:37] <fman23> ctcsadmin: im about to just say compile it
[23:37] <ly> wefg
[23:37] <ctcsadmin> fman23, :-)
[23:37] <ly> j'
[23:37] <ly> i
[23:37] <Jordan_U> ly: Please stop that.
[23:37] <ctcsadmin> fman23, where can I find another package to compile it?
[23:37] <ctcsadmin> fman23, why would I be the only one with a fresh copy of ubuntu 11.10 that can't install the package and get it to run.
[23:38] <ctcsadmin> fman23, well I usually have that sort of luck
[23:38] <padmick1> well jordan-u im on windows and about to boot ubuntu so i will be back in a few minutes ok?
[23:38] <fman23> ctcsadmin: im trying to find the package
[23:38] <Jordan_U> padmick1: OK.
[23:38] <fman23> ctcsadmin: is this the package u downloaded? http://dl.boxee.tv/boxee-<IP_ADDRESS>69-fab5dc5.i486.deb
[23:38] <MonkeyDust> ctcsadmin  what package?
[23:38] <MonkeyDust> ah
[23:38] <fman23> MonkeyDust: he is having trouble with boxee
[23:38] <ctcsadmin> fman23, yes
[23:38] <fman23> MonkeyDust: keeps getting libcrypto error
[23:38] <soalgoritmo> friend what is xchat of backtrack
[23:39] <MonkeyDust> !backtrack| soalgoritmo
[23:39] <DJones> !backtrack | soalgoritmo
[23:39] <soalgoritmo> and how i add, i am new at linux
[23:39] <ctcsadmin> fman23, sudo /opt/boxee/Boxee ???
[23:39] <fman23> soalgoritmo: backtrack linux is a penetration and vulnerability distribution, what do u want it for?
[23:39] <fman23> ctcsadmin: worth a shot
[23:39] <fman23> ctcsadmin: but be very careful
[23:39] <fman23> ctcsadmin: dont screw anything up
[23:40] <soalgoritmo> I need to make a serve for put sites,
[23:40] <northernen> Is there a setting which disabled auto-hide of top pane/bar? (I don't want to hover to the top to see the menu.)
[23:40] <ctcsadmin> fman23, what else could we try to get this to run as a regular user?
[23:40] <soalgoritmo> i need install mysql
[23:40] <MonkeyDust> northernen  install CCSM, open it, choose unity desktop plugin
[23:40] <fman23> ctcsadmin: did it work as root?
[23:41] <soalgoritmo> but when i  will test the mysql, i have a error
[23:41] <juan__> brand new to ubuntu - need help with sound
[23:41] <ctcsadmin> fman23, is there a different package for ubuntu, should I try compiling it, where can I find the package for that?
[23:41] <ctcsadmin> fman23, I haven't tried
[23:41] <fman23> ctcsadmin: well try as root
[23:41] <soalgoritmo> root@bt:~# mysql start
[23:41] <soalgoritmo> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[23:42] <ctcsadmin> fman23, nope same error
[23:42] <DJones> soalgoritmo: Please ask your questions about backtrack installation issues in the backtrack irc channel, this channel is for ubuntu support
[23:42] <northernen> MonkeyDust, any particular setting therein? I can't find anything related.
[23:42] <fman23> ctcsadmin: hmm, try libcrypto++-dev
[23:43] <MonkeyDust> soalgoritmo  type /j #backtrack-linux
[23:43] <MonkeyDust> northernen  Desktop, Unity desktop plugin, there you find autohide
[23:43] <ctcsadmin> fman23, nope same error
[23:43] <fman23> ctcsadmin: hmm, try apt-get install libcrypto*
[23:44] <ctcsadmin> fman23, that is just what i was going to ask
[23:44] <northernen> MonkeyDust, is that not just for the side panel?
[23:44] <MonkeyDust> northernen  isnt that what you asked or wanted?
[23:45] <MonkeyDust> moment, i launch oneiric
[23:46] <northernen> MonkeyDust, I've sorted the side bar. I meant the menu bar at the top of applications, such as "Xchat View Settings ...". I don't want to have to hover to the top to get them visible, but have them permanently visible.
[23:47] <MonkeyDust> northernen  you mean globalmenu?
[23:48] <jen> so my yahoo is acting funny, it says someone is messaging me at the top but the i never get the popup and I cant get a hold of anyone by clicking their name to chat
[23:48] <northernen> MonkeyDust, yes, I think so.
[23:48] <pooltable> help how to play SNES music files ?
[23:48] <MonkeyDust> northernen  there's a way to disable and have the menu in the window
[23:49] <datruth_> so now that i have gnome-shell and gnome-tweak-tool installed
[23:49] <northernen> MonkeyDust, through the Unity plugin?
[23:50] <datruth_> running gnome-tweak-tool i dont see how to change the shell
[23:51] <pooltable> also i have a music file in ogg how do i look up the track name
[23:51] <MonkeyDust> northernen  check this, but i don't think it's possible http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/things-to-tweak-fix-after-installing.html
[23:51] <Join> hello
[23:52] <Join> Join us to school community on world!!! | on www.motivgo.com
[23:52] <Join> Join us to school community on world!!! | on www.motivgo.com
[23:52] <FloodBot1> Join: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:53] <facebookwebmaste> a
[23:54] <northernen> MonkeyDust, I mean the upper left side, not the upper right side (with the time and that).
[23:54] <ctcsadmin> fman23, same error
[23:54] <ctcsadmin> fman23, …. sigh....
[23:54] <MonkeyDust> northernen  on that page, search globalmenu
[23:54] <fman23> ctcsadmin: oh almost forgot i was on this
[23:54] <kaetzchen> Ok, i solved my problem with the recently-used files. rm ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel ; mkdir ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel
[23:54] <fman23> ctcsadmin: try closing and reopening the terminal
[23:55] <ctcsadmin> fman23, same
[23:55] <fman23> ctcsadmin: try restarting
[23:55] <fman23> ctcsadmin: and if that fails, ill give u my own modified version ;)
[23:56] <fman23> all packaged up and ready to go
[23:57] <ctcsadmin> fman23, same error
[23:58] <austinuity> is banshee actually going to be dropped?
[23:58] <fman23> ctcsadmin: ok one second, ill have to package up my modified version.  it comes with boxee exclusives all working and everything ;)
[23:58] <fman23> except for netflix, i couldnt get that
[23:58] <austinuity> anyone listening to me?
[23:59] <_Hussain1> Do you know anything about ubuntu sound card necessary for launching a C++ compiled app ?


[01:24] <mwhudson> it would be nice if debdiff was better
[10:54] <bdrung> @pilot in
[11:06] <bdrung> RAOF, will you sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thermald/+bug/1995606?
[11:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1995606 in thermald (Ubuntu Jammy) "Upgrade thermald to 2.5.1 for Jammy (22.04)" [Undecided, In Progress]
[11:15] <RAOF> bdrung: I *can", but it'd be better if someone else could, and then I could accept it into -proposed
[11:15] <RAOF> (if I upload it myself then I can't/shouldn't accept it)
[11:19] <bdrung> okay. then i'll do it.
[11:22] <RAOF> Ta
[11:42] <bdrung> done
[14:37] <rbasak> May I have a peer review for https://code.launchpad.net/~racb/ubuntu-dev-tools/+git/ubuntu-dev-tools/+merge/446078 please, which is needed to be cherry-picked back to Focal in an SRU to fix git-ubuntu imports.
[14:37] <rbasak> If you have knowledge in the area of HTTP, (Python) requests, transfer encodings and content encodings, even better.
[14:38] <rbasak> This is for bug 2025748 which was an SRU regression in ubuntu-dev-tools which git-ubuntu depends on to fetch sources from Launchpad :-/
[14:38] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Bug 2025748 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu Focal) "Launchpad downloads fail with 'incorrect size, got X expected Y'" [Critical, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2025748
[15:00] <athos> @pilot in
[15:00] <athos> o/
[15:12] <bdrung> @pilot out
[16:31] <tjaalton> where is the default priority for -proposed set? it's 100 now in lunar and up, although on my laptop it's still 500
[16:42] <rbasak> IIRC it's via NotAutomatic
[16:42] <athos> It seems to be the outcome of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2021-January/041324.html
[16:43] <rbasak> The behaviour of NotAutomatic wrt. priorities is specified in apt_preferences(5).
[16:43] <athos> you can still follow the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed => selective upgrading to set it as you prefer :)
[18:45] <ahasenack> hi, is anyone aware of problems with arm{hf,64} builders?
[18:45] <ahasenack> I have a ppa which has been saying "starts in 15min" for the past hour
[19:01] <seb128> ahasenack, you probably want to use #launchpad
[19:02] <athos> @pilot out
[19:08] <sergiodj> ahasenack: nothing that I'm aware of.  my qemu PPA is building fine with both arms (pun intended)
[20:14] <vpa1977> Hi, would it be possible to sync openjdk-8 package? There are no more changes remaining in Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-8/+bug/2026204 Thank you!!!
[20:14] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2026204 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "Please sync openjdk 8 8u382~b04-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided, New]
[21:00] <ginggs> vpa1977: looking...
[21:01] <vpa1977> Thank you!!! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-19/+bug/2026205
[21:01] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2026205 in openjdk-19 (Ubuntu) "Please sync openjdk-19 19.0.2+7-2 from debian/unstable" [Undecided, New]
[21:01] <vpa1977> There is also 19 and 20
[21:07] <ginggs> vpa1977: 8 and 19 sync'd, is there a bug for 20?
[21:07] <vpa1977> in a second (in standup_
[21:15] <vpa1977> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-20/+bug/2026207
[21:15] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2026207 in openjdk-20 (Ubuntu) "Please sync openjdk-20 20.0.1+9-5 from Debian unstable" [Undecided, New]
[21:15] <vpa1977> Thank you!!!!!
[21:16] <ginggs> vpa1977: yw!


[00:11] <mmcc> dinner time - see everyone later
[00:22] <karni> Night all o/
[01:53] <dobey> anyone around?
[01:58] <ralsina> dobey: I am now
[01:58] <ralsina> dobey: need reviews?
[01:59] <dobey> ralsina: https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/fix-pep8/+merge/111986
[01:59] <dobey> trivial
[01:59] <ralsina> dobey: on it
[01:59] <dobey> thanks
[02:00] <ralsina> dobey: global +1
[02:00] <ralsina> dobey: pep8 complains of != None now?
[02:03] <dobey> yep
[02:03] <dobey> the version in Q does
[02:14] <ralsina> nice, it's an old pet peeve of mine. Almost the only proper usage of is in python.
[05:41] <karni> Good morning o/
[08:38] <kazade> morning aquarius - you got a couple of mins for some U1DB questions? :)
[08:38] <aquarius> kazade, heya! Go for it; I'll be in and out 'cos I'm sprinting, but I'll try and answer as quickly as I can
[08:39] <kazade> ok, well, I kinda fell at the first hurdle..
[08:39] <kazade> If I have to include U1DB in my app... which is a C module - that's gonna complicate things isn't it :)
[08:39] <kazade> I guess my packaging just got more complicated :p
[08:40] <kazade> anyway, this is what I'm writing: http://i.imgur.com/tYIhX.png
[08:40] <aquarius> ah, you don't need the C version
[08:40] <kazade> oh!
[08:40] <aquarius> you can use the reference implementation, which is Python :)
[08:40] <kazade> ah!
[08:40] <kazade> could you point me at it?
[08:41] <kazade> hmm, this: http://people.canonical.com/~aquarius/u1db-docs/reference-implementation.html points me at lp:u1db
[08:41] <aquarius> lp:u1db contains everything, including the reference Python version...
[08:41] <aquarius> it does :)
[08:41] <kazade> ok, I should've spent more time looking through the folders
[08:42] <kazade> OK that's awesome - now the fun part of moving from Sqlite -> U1DB :/
[08:43] <aquarius> that's a reasonably big change, indeed, because U1DB is not the same kind of database at all
[08:43] <kazade> yeah, luckily I've used non-rel before (on Google AppEngine)
[08:43] <kazade> well... I use it every day :p
[08:43] <aquarius> I'd put each task in one document, I think :)
[08:44] <kazade> yep :)
[08:44] <kazade> one more thing..
[08:45] <kazade> the docs mention running a server..
[08:45] <kazade> do I need to do that to use it?
[08:45] <kazade> I'm guessing this: db = u1db.open(":memory:", create=True) isn't persistent..
[08:47] <aquarius> you don't need to run a server at all, no
[08:47] <aquarius> indeed, opening :memory: is not persistent :)
[08:47] <aquarius> if you specify a real file name there then it'll persist
[08:47] <aquarius> the server is for syncing to
[08:47] <aquarius> (or from)
[08:47] <aquarius> you can run the reference server in order to test your syncing code, when you get to that point
[08:48] <kazade> ok, I'll start by just storing it in a file and then tackle the syncing part
[08:48] <aquarius> (it may be easier than testing against the live Ubuntu One server, firstly because you can moe easily see the results, and secondly because the refernce server doesn't need authentication :))
[08:48] <aquarius> (and it's all local, too, so you don't need the net to test syncing)
[08:48] <kazade> is there any sample code around for syncing with the user's Ubuntu one?
[08:48] <kazade> does Ubuntu Accomplishments use U1DB?
[08:48] <aquarius> there is, but it's not in the docs yet. It's in the presentation I gave at UDS, which I shall find you a link to
[08:49] <aquarius> Accomplishments uses Ubuntu One file sync, because it has different requirements -- it needs sharing (which U1DB doesn't do) and a created synced trophy does not change once it's created (which is not the case for a task, obviously :))
[08:50] <aquarius> http://ubuntuone.com/5KKNLvpKe76zgRBmdyFen5 for the presentation
[08:50] <aquarius> I'd grab it from there rather than just bookmarking the URL :)
[08:50] <kazade> already done ;)
[08:50] <kazade> thanks :D
[08:51] <kazade> aquarius: that sample code takes care of auth yeah? Would that automatically work if the user was connected to their U1?
[08:53] <aquarius> kazade, yep -- see the code mentioned in the presentation, which should be a fully functional example
[08:53] <kazade> conveniently the sample is a todo list :D
[08:53] <kazade> cool, I think I've got enough to go on - I'm gonna have a busy lunch hour :)
[08:53] <kazade> thanks again!
[08:55] <aquarius> ;)
[08:55] <aquarius> no worries! have a play
[08:56] <aquarius> thisfred is your man for detailed code questions, although I can probably help :)
[08:57] <kazade> ok cool :)
[09:18] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[11:14] <gatox> good morning
[11:19] <thisfred> s
[11:22] <thisfred> kazade: hi :) the todo app is still a little rough around the edges, but it does sync (though synchronously, so it freezes the ui. I will make it do it async soon, so there'll be an example of that as well)
[11:24] <kazade> thisfred: awesome :) I'm gonna try and switch over to U1DB tonight - be prepared for questions :D
[11:25] <thisfred> kazade: that's awesome, bring 'em on! :) Here is fine, but there is also #u1db. If I'm unresponsive, feel free to email me as well: eric.casteleijn at canonical dot com
[11:26]  * thisfred walks dog
[12:44] <aquarius> ralsina, ping about http://askubuntu.com/questions/156135/is-this-ubuntu-one-dbus-signal-connection-code-correct -- is that something you can answer?
[12:44] <ralsina> aquarius: maybe
[12:44] <ralsina> aquarius: I'll give it a try later today
[12:45] <ralsina> aquarius: C++? Do you hate me that much? ;-)
[12:45] <aquarius> ralsina, I know not much about both C(++?) and D-Bus and U1's D-Bus API, but I figured either you would or your team would :)
[12:45] <ralsina> aquarius: probably me or gatox. I think I may delegate ;-)
[12:47] <alecu> hey all, good morning!
[12:47] <ralsina> hola alecu!
[12:47] <gatox> alecu, hi
[12:47] <gatox> ralsina, c++ \o/
[12:48] <gatox> kind of rusty..... but fun
[12:48] <alecu> c++ /o\
[12:48] <gatox> jejeje
[12:48] <ralsina> gatox: all yours :-)
[12:48] <ralsina> c++ o/~
[12:48]  * alecu loves this line:
[12:48] <alecu> signature = "a{ss} (Dict of {String, String})";
[12:48] <ralsina> which means "stinks like armpit"
[12:48] <alecu> how come dbus definitions are sooo funny?
[12:49] <ralsina> alecu: I suspect parts of dbus are a  joke we just don't get yet
[12:49] <ralsina> alecu: for example http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/api/dbus.Dictionary-class.html
[12:49] <alecu> I didn't get that either :P
[12:49] <ralsina> alecu: here's the good line from that page "the key and value signatures will be guessed from an arbitrary element of the Dictionary."
 That's just why; otherwise it would use the first.
[12:51] <ralsina> alecu: it still makes no sense
[12:51] <ralsina> alecu: it should not guess signatures, it should fail
[12:51] <ralsina> alecu: or it shoud check the signatures of all items
[12:51] <ralsina> alecu: checking a random item is insane
[12:52] <alecu> ralsina: I think it puts the burden on the user to include items of the same type
[12:52] <alecu> ralsina: so it let's the user behave like a grown adult
[12:52] <ralsina> alecu: it's like doing 10 holes on the floor and covering 9 with glass.
[12:53] <alecu> ralsina: there's obviously an impedance mismatch between the dbus need for types and python's cuacking
[12:53] <ralsina> indeed
[12:53] <alecu> so, this solution works for most cases, and breaks horribly in a few :-)
[12:53] <alecu> anyway, I think I know the answer to aquarius riddle.
[12:54] <alecu> I'll reply now in askubuntu
[12:54] <ralsina> alecu: thanks!
[13:10] <gatox> alecu, did you have the time to review my branches?
[13:10] <dobey> hmm
[13:11] <alecu> gatox: I'm almost done with the first; I've got a few comments.
[13:11] <gatox> ok
[13:21] <dobey> wtf askubuntu
[13:46]  * mandel back
[13:50] <mandel> ralsina, shall we try and have the 1-1?
[13:50] <ralsina> mandel: am on mgmt call, so in ... 40 minutes?
[13:50] <mandel> ralsina, sure, ping me when done :)
[13:50] <ralsina> mandel: ack
[13:57] <alecu> mmcc: ping
[13:57] <alecu> mmcc: you might be interested in this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8314348/cocoa-fsevents-kfseventstreamcreateflagfileevents-flag-and-renamed-events
[13:57] <alecu> gatox: ^ too
[13:57] <gatox> alecu, looking
[13:58] <dobey> hrmm. do i go for triple redundancy for my big data raid; or span 2 disks and mirror to the other 2
[13:58] <ralsina> dobey: raid 1+0
[13:58] <ralsina> dobey: best performance while keeping good safety
[13:59] <ralsina> dobey: you can lose 2 disks if you are lucky ;-)
[14:01] <gatox> alecu, mmm do you think that i would be helpful if i adapt my testing script to do a lot of rename operations and check if they are successful?
[14:01] <alecu> dobey, ralsina: triple redundancy is like burning money. Offsite backups ftw
[14:02] <ralsina> alecu: if there was only an online service where we had gigabaytes for free as canonical employees!
[14:03] <alecu> exabytes!
[14:04] <dobey> if only there was a free infiniband connection to it :)
[14:04] <ralsina> dobey: there is, but it involves a jumbo jet full of HDDs crashing into london
[14:05] <alecu> ralsina: that does not sound exactly like "free". Perhaps it's the "free love" jumbo jet that Austin Powers rides.
[14:05] <ralsina> alecu: well, if it crashes you get a refund, don't you?
[14:05] <gatox> alecu, so.... let me know if we should use that to test it.... also, let me know when you finish reviewing my branches :P so i can check that and update everything as soon as possible... in the meantime i'm working on this Bug #1012706  for fsevents on darwin
[14:06] <dobey> and all your data lost
[14:06] <ralsina> dobey: details!
[14:06] <alecu> ralsina: they refund you an unlimited number of random bits; you'll have to put them back together.
[14:06] <ralsina> alecu: here's a 1-generator and a 0-generator, you mix them
[14:08] <alecu> gatox: re: script to "do a lot of renames", it sounds very useful.
[14:08] <gatox> alecu, ack
[14:08] <alecu> gatox: anyway, the link I pasted is regarding to a new feature in the FSEvents API that mmcc found
[14:10] <alecu> gatox: it's a way for FSEvents to report "changed files" too. It's part of darwin 10.7, but it's poorly documented.
[14:10] <mandel> alecu, I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-client/better-encoding/+merge/111580
[14:10] <alecu> gatox: and according to that stackoverflow question, it's also not reliable in some cases.
[14:10] <gatox> alecu, yes..... we are not having that problem using the macfsevents lib
[14:11] <gatox> alecu, or it seems we don't..... i'll check with the script
[14:12] <alecu> gatox: but we should consider contributing that feature to macfsevents at some point, because in theory it sounds like it might reduce a lot our code.
[14:12] <alecu> and it sounds like it might make it faster, too.
[14:12] <alecu> and make it more compatible with the sandbox.
[14:13] <alecu> (but only if we can make the API work reasonably)
[14:13] <gatox> alecu, yes of course.....
[14:13] <gatox> alecu, but yes, if the api works properly
[14:15] <mandel> ralsina, looks like bug #1017922 happens also in windows but we never did a thing about it, so I solved both (is a stupid defer.succeed(self) to keep things clean + a test ran by all platforms
[14:15] <ralsina> mandel: ack
[14:36] <ralsina> mandel: 1-1?
[14:37] <mandel> ralsina, sure, let me launch the thing
[14:43]  * dobey wonders why quantal instance died
[14:50] <gatox> alecu, ping
[14:51] <alecu> gatox: pong
[14:52] <gatox> alecu, the thing with this lib, it seems that when you stress it a lot, creating a lot of events at once, it tends to lose something, the first script create 1000 files, and rename those 1000 files instantly.... and it only detects around 650..... now i added a little sleep between renames.... and it's detecting everything
[14:53] <alecu> gatox: is it the lib or is it the FSEvents API?
[14:53] <gatox> alecu, right..... i should check with the c code now... i was testing at python level
[14:54] <gatox> i'll test that
[14:54] <alecu> gatox: another thing: try running the fslogger.c code at the same time when you are running your tests
[14:55] <alecu> gatox: and see if fslogger.c finds out that the lost events match any special event
[14:55] <alecu> gatox: I'm guessing this is caused by the event from /dev/fsevents that signals that the event queue was full.
[14:56] <gatox> alecu, ack
[14:57] <alecu> gatox: aha
[14:57] <gatox> alecu, what?
[14:57] <alecu> gatox: are you doing all the 1000 renames in the same folder?
[14:58] <gatox> alecu, yes
[14:58] <alecu> gatox: there you go.
[14:58] <gatox> what what?
[14:58] <alecu> gatox: try this:
[14:58] <alecu> gatox: base_folder/folder999/file999
[14:58] <mmcc> hi folks. just back from a kernel panic. alecu, saw your link in the backtrace, interesting. I suspect there are relevant flags he's missing
[14:59] <gatox> the files are: 1.txt, 2.txt..... and i'm renaming everything adding "aa"...... like 1aa.txt, 2aa.txt
[14:59] <alecu> gatox: and do the rename of file999 instead
[14:59] <alecu> gatox: right, so now my guess is that events are lost because they all happen in the same folder
[15:00] <briancurtin> me
[15:00] <gatox> me
[15:00] <alecu> gatox: and the FSEvents API that your lib uses "merges" changes in a given folder.
[15:00] <dobey> me
[15:00] <mmcc> me
[15:01] <thisfred> me
[15:01] <alecu> me
[15:01] <mmcc> alecu, gatox - does macfsevents pass through the FSEventStreamEventFlags to look at?
[15:02] <gatox> mmcc, what?
[15:02] <alecu> ralsina, mandel: standup!
[15:03] <ralsina> sorry otp
[15:03] <ralsina> me
[15:03] <mandel> me
[15:03] <mmcc> gatox: FSEvents includes flags with each event with some additional info - one flag it could set is 'kFSEventStreamEventFlagMustScanSubDirs', which means it coalesced multiple file events (or even multiple dir events) into one event, and you have to manually scan everything under the event's path recursively
[15:03] <alecu> briancurtin: go
[15:03] <briancurtin> DONE: windows xp issue debugging
[15:03] <briancurtin> TODO: windows xp issue, installing a new VMWare right now so i can make snapshots with/without 2008 CRT, build installer on XP itself
[15:03] <briancurtin> BLOCKED: no
[15:03] <briancurtin> NEXT: gatox
[15:03] <gatox> DONE:
[15:03] <gatox> Start working on Bug #1012706 , debugging renames on darwin.
[15:03] <gatox> TODO:
[15:03] <gatox> check the fsevents api, keep working (and finish) with the previous bug and Bug #1012709
[15:03] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[15:03] <gatox> No
[15:03] <gatox> dobey, go
[15:03] <dobey> DONE: release day
[15:03] <dobey> TODO: finish releases/uploads
[15:03] <dobey> BLCK: Quantal Tarmac instance down.
[15:03] <dobey> mmcc: go
[15:03] <mmcc>  DONE: fixed default reactor issue on darwin,
[15:03] <mmcc>  TODO: REVIEWS, polish up a merge for CP, hack more at CP
[15:03] <mmcc> BLOCK: none
[15:03] <mmcc>  NEXT: thisfred
[15:03] <thisfred> DONE: Bug #999562 TODO: wrap up Bug #999562 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/u1db (As in plenty to do, just haven't picked yet ;) BLOCKED: no NEXT: alecu
[15:04] <alecu> DONE: reviews, more debugging for the failing branch, more fsevents discussion
[15:04] <alecu> TODO: more mac reviews, catch up with py3k in sso with brian
[15:04] <alecu> BLOCKED: still can't find why the branch won't merge
[15:04] <alecu> NEXT: ralsina
[15:04] <ralsina> DONE: mgmt call, tech leads call, setup XP VM, setup Q VM, reviews. TODO try to debug in both VMs + look at testability BLOCKED: I can't run both VMs at the same time :-/ NEXT mandel
[15:05] <alecu> ralsina: you should get more ram!
[15:05] <mandel> DONE: Bug #1017922 bug #1017886, reviews
[15:05] <mandel> TODO: Look at inhibitor with more detial, more reviews
[15:05] <mandel> BLOCKED: no
[15:05] <ralsina> alecu: I need a faster disk, actually
[15:05] <ralsina> comments?
[15:06] <ralsina> mmcc: how's the status on packaging?
[15:07] <mmcc> ralsina: packaging works up to the point that I need to fix bugs in controlpanel to make packaging progress
[15:07] <ralsina> mmcc: awesome
[15:07] <ralsina> mmcc: so, after the default reactor thing, does u1cp start?
[15:07] <mmcc> ralsina: oh, yes
[15:08] <ralsina> cool!
[15:08] <mmcc> yep, forward motion :)
[15:08] <gatox> mandel, ping.... i've updated the darwin3 branch, and darwin4 is ready for review
[15:08] <mandel> mmcc, do you get to the point where the control panel has the animation?
[15:08] <mandel> mmcc, is there a branch I can test with
[15:08] <mandel> gatox, ok, may I have the mp urls
[15:08]  * mandel is lazy..
[15:08] <mmcc> mandel: yes, it will show the setup page and buttons work, etc
[15:08] <gatox> mandel, yes
[15:09] <ralsina> mandel, mmcc, gatox: let's try to get something packaged this friday
[15:09] <mandel> mmcc, awesome!
[15:09] <ralsina> I don't even expect it to *work*
[15:09] <gatox> mandel, https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/darwin3-fsevents/+merge/111666  -  https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/darwin4-fsevents
[15:09] <ralsina> but I would like to have something that I can install and try and report failure with
[15:09] <mmcc> ralsina: well if you don't expect it to work, then I can send you something today :)
[15:09] <mandel> mmcc, can you pass me the lp branch I'll like to test it with the sd I have syncing to maybe sync a share or something of the kind :)
[15:09] <gatox> ralsina, well, the non root fsevents implementation should be working.... we need to land this branches :P
[15:10] <mmcc> mandel, sure -- just a sec
[15:10] <gatox> ralsina, there are yet 2 open issues that i'm working on about fsevents..... for 2 particular things
[15:10] <ralsina> gatox: I have lots of confidence in you
[15:10] <ralsina> gatox: also, we have the other events implementation ;-)
[15:11] <gatox> ralsina, :P
[15:11] <mmcc> mandel, you need to use the sso branch from this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~mikemc/ubuntu-sso-client/fix-1017672-delayed-reaction-in-tcpactivation/+merge/111945
[15:11] <mmcc> (which you could also review if you like)
[15:11] <mandel> mmcc, I will
[15:11] <mmcc> and then use controlpanel from here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mikemc/ubuntuone-control-panel/fix-1015825-reorder-reactor
[15:12] <mmcc> which I'll propose as soon as I can test it, provided VBox doesn't panic my kernel again
[15:12] <dobey> quantal is back. but client build in archive isn't done yet
[15:12] <mandel> mmcc, ha, I think I'm the one to blame for that import reactor..
[15:12] <gatox> mandel, please review my branches...... so i can annoy alecu later :P
[15:13] <gatox> jeje
[15:13] <mmcc> mandel, I wasn't going to name names ;)
[15:13] <mandel> mmcc, got bzr blame for that hehe
[15:14] <mandel> gatox, sure, let me look at mmcc branch first that is not a gazillion lines long :)
[15:14] <gatox> mandel, :P ok
[15:16]  * gatox lunch
[15:16] <mandel> ralsina, I forgot to mention, the perissions error is expected but we should talk with ux to have a better interaction with the user
[15:16] <mandel> ralsina, like telling him, we did not update the file 'cause we don't have the rights, or something of the kind
[15:17] <dobey> wtf
[15:17] <dobey> mandel: what branch landed in fsevents that had a --fixes for bug #1013119?
[15:17] <mandel> dobey, less error prone was base on the rejected one.. I'll set that as invalid
[15:18] <mandel> dobey, sbjson is there in trunk
[15:18] <mandel> mmcc, small needs fixing: https://code.launchpad.net/~mikemc/ubuntu-sso-client/fix-1017672-delayed-reaction-in-tcpactivation/+merge/111945
[15:20] <dobey> ugh
[15:20] <dobey> i didn't realize you were importing it into the tree
[15:20] <mmcc> mandel: thanks, d'oh
[15:20] <mandel> dobey, yes.. that is why I wanted to remove it
[15:21] <mandel> mmcc, ping me when done and I'll +1
[15:21] <briancurtin> oh cool, VMWare workstation is free for 30 days as long as you don't actually *use* it. helpful...
[15:22] <dobey> doh
[15:25] <ralsina> mandel: we don't claim to keep metadata, including permissions
[15:25] <ralsina> mandel: so we could just change them
[15:25] <dobey> maybe i should backport the new pep8
[15:25] <mandel> ralsina, well, is something worth thinking at some point, now know :)
[15:25] <ralsina> mandel: consider it known ;-)
[15:28] <alecu> mandel: ping
[15:29] <mandel> alecu, pong
[15:29] <alecu> mandel: can you give me a bit more of detail re: "it looks like the env var that sets the xdg_config location is not working correctly"
[15:29] <alecu> mandel: where is that being set?
[15:29] <alecu> mandel: I'm talking about this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~alecu/ubuntu-sso-client/use-pycurl-1-4/+merge/110636
[15:30] <dobey> thisfred, mmcc: trivial branch when you get a chance https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/dirspec/fix-pep8/+merge/112143
[15:30] <dobey> alecu: it should be getting set by u1trial
[15:30] <mandel> alecu, so AFAIK u1trial sets the xdg values for the tests under _trial_temp if you are getting diff values is either because the env value is not set correctly of the test is harcoded to use a path that depends on the env var
[15:31] <thisfred> dobey: +1ed
[15:31] <mandel> alecu, the fact that in our systems is ok and not in tarmac might mean we have to check what is happening there or fix the tests to be less fragile to changes in the env
[15:31] <alecu> mandel, dobey: do you guys know if any of that changed recently on u1trial?
[15:31] <dobey> no it didn't change
[15:31] <mandel> alecu, but it is a guess of where the problem could be
[15:31] <dobey> and the version on natty definitely hasn't changed
[15:32] <dobey> mandel: i highly doubt it's a "change to the environment" unless the tests themselves are changing the environment
[15:32] <dobey> in which case, the tests are probably broken anyway
[15:32] <alecu> dobey: do you know if tarmac uses the u1trial from nightlies? I tested on natty with nightlies and it did not exhibit this issue
[15:32] <mmcc> dobey, approved your dirspec branch
[15:33] <dobey> alecu: no; the natty version is using the version in natty
[15:33] <dobey> thanks mmcc
[15:33] <alecu> ok, I'll try like that
[15:34] <dobey> hmm
[15:34] <alecu> gatox_lunch: small needsfixing and I'll approve: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/darwin2-fsevents/+merge/111427
[15:35] <dobey> alecu: ah i see
[15:35] <dobey> alecu: the version in natty doesn't set XDG_CONFIG_HOME. it's only setting XDG_CACHE_HOME
[15:36] <alecu> dobey: good catch
[15:36] <alecu> dobey: should we change the branch to account for that?
[15:38] <mmcc> hey, should u1lint take > 4 minutes on one file? seems like something must be wrong here
[15:38] <dobey> alecu: no. i'll upgrade ubuntuone-dev-tools there, to the version from oneiric, which i think has that fix in u1trial
[15:39] <alecu> dobey: great, thanks.
[15:39] <dobey> alecu: so don't worry about it. i'll poke at it after lunch. if i think you need to do anything else to your branch i'll ping you. :)
[15:39] <alecu> dobey: thanks!
[15:40] <gatox_lunch> alecu, great, thx!
[15:40] <dobey> and now. need to get lunch. bbiab :)
[15:42] <mandel> dobey, alecu, so I was more or less right? is the env var :P
[15:42]  * mandel wants some recognition hehehe
[15:43] <mmcc> oh, u1lint ignores its args and just lints everything in $CWD. oh.
[15:45] <dobey> mmcc: yeah u1lint only has an --ignore option
[15:46] <dobey> ok, really off to get lunch
[15:49] <mmcc> mandel, pushed the pylint fix you pointed out to that branch
[15:50] <ralsina> lunch it is
[16:06] <mandel> gatox_lunch, some evil review: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/darwin3-fsevents/+merge/111666
[16:06] <mandel> gatox_lunch, sorry but I think we need to clean the code a little before it lands
[16:13] <mandel> gatox_lunch, I think we can dramatically reduce the number of lines of darwin3-fsevents if we merge the tests from windows and darwin
[16:15] <gatox> mandel, we already talk about that in the mumble
[16:15] <gatox> mandel, we said that we are going to do this branches this way, and then refactor the tests
[16:16] <mandel> gatox, ok, well there are a little more things than the tests :)
[16:17] <gatox> ack
[16:18] <mandel> gatox, I went through the code very carefully but I  might have missed something, please read the review and let me know if I make sense
[16:18] <mandel> gatox, specially because i'm close to my EOD :P
[16:21] <gatox> mandel, i agree with your comments, and thanks for the careful review.... i'll work fix that (except the merging tests :P that we already agree different things before)
[16:21] <mandel> gatox, super :)
[16:28] <mandel> mmcc, do you have a windows vm?
[16:30] <mmcc> mandel: yes why?
[16:30] <mmcc> I'm just about to run controlpanel tests there
[16:30] <mandel> mmcc, can you run the tests of your branch and sso trunk, I think we broke sso on windows :)
[16:31] <mmcc> mandel: I ran windows sso tests, what's breaking?
[16:31]  * mmcc checks email
[16:31] <mandel> mmcc, I might have an outdated version of dev-tools I needed someone else to be sure they are not broken :)
[16:32] <mmcc> mandel: paste?
[16:33] <mandel> mmcc, give me a sec, I just updated devtools, it can be just a deprecated dependency
[16:33] <mandel> mmcc, which it was, awesome +1 :)
[16:38] <mandel> ok, EOD here, see you all tom!
[16:38] <mandel> o/
[16:38] <gatox> mandel, bye
[16:41] <leo-unglaub> hey, aquarius i have a question according to your session about u1db the other day
[16:41] <leo-unglaub> do you have a minute?
[16:42] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: maybe I can help?
[16:42] <leo-unglaub> maybe :)
[16:43] <leo-unglaub> aquarius was talking about how we developers should not be worrieing about writing your own sync tools for our tools and use u1 for that...so i wanted to integrate u1 in all my tools for syncing and provide better ubuntu support
[16:43] <leo-unglaub> but i looked at the specs...
[16:43] <leo-unglaub> THERE IS NO CLIENT SIDE ENCRIPTION
[16:43] <leo-unglaub> i thought it was a joke, but there is really nothing is there?
[16:44] <thisfred> I'm not sure if you're talking about u1db or ubuntuone file sync?
[16:44] <leo-unglaub> both
[16:44] <thisfred> not that it matters much for the answer I think :)
[16:45] <thisfred> so: we don't encrypt, because we want users to be able to access and use their data in the cloud by default. Of course we transfer the data over a secure connection, so it's not readable on the wire.
[16:46] <thisfred> If an app developer or a user wants their data to be encrypted, there is nothing stopping them from encrypting it client side
[16:46] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: if we did the encryption and decrypted on download, any other app would still be able to read. If you want the data to be secure, just sync encrypted data.
[16:47] <leo-unglaub> hmm, but what kind of data should i store in the u1db if it is not encripted?
[16:47] <leo-unglaub> canonical can read all the user data in the current version
[16:48] <leo-unglaub> and that is simply not okay for every kind of user data
[16:48] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: well, maybe not your banking software passwords, but there is a world of data that is less sensitive than that
[16:48] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: for that kind of data, encrypt before uploading.
[16:49] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: yeah, as an app developer and user, you need to think about the risks (which is no different than with any other online storage). If you want encrypted everything by default, there are other options, u1 might not be the best fit
[16:49] <leo-unglaub> hmmm, i have 3 types of data i wanted to adapt to u1, thunderbird contacts, filezilla server settings and pidgin account informations
[16:50] <leo-unglaub> and there is no way that i put those data in u1db unencryptet
[16:50] <leo-unglaub> okay, sure i can do my own encription on top of that
[16:50] <leo-unglaub> but...
[16:50] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: are you storing them on disk unencrypted?
[16:51] <leo-unglaub> now every tool has do there oen encription, there own keys....the point of using u1 is for me, that i have 1 interface to do all that
[16:51] <leo-unglaub> ralsina: of course NOT
[16:51] <leo-unglaub> all discs are encripted...
[16:51] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: that is of course a completely valid choice, but most users are not as sensitive about most of their data
[16:51] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: but every process after boot can read it
[16:52] <leo-unglaub> ralsina: every process with read permissions to my home dir, yes...exception the pidgin accounts..there is a special password on that encfs partition
[16:52] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: I am all for encryping it. Don't use per-app keys, use the user's gpg keys from the keychain, if you want. Those should already be protected by a passphrase
[16:52] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: also I take it you don't use gmail or any mail provider, but run your own smtp? ;)
[16:53] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: like thisfred said, it's very possible that u1 is not what you want to use in this case. Keep in mind that for other services, all you have is their word that they can't decrypt your data ater upload.
[16:53] <leo-unglaub> thisfred: well, as i am working in this business...yes, i have my own smtp/imap servers running. but even without..all messages are crypted..
[16:54] <leo-unglaub> thunderbird/enigmail FTW ;)
[16:54] <leo-unglaub> ralsina: Keep in mind that for other services, all you have is their word that they can't decrypt your data ater upload.<- where is the difference to ubuntu one?
[16:54] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: well, again, perfectly reasonable, but not like most people's requirements
[16:54] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: if you do your own encryption, you don't have to take our word for it.
[16:55] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: you can use the same gpg settings you use in enigmail, even.
[16:55] <dobey> grr dpkg
[16:58] <leo-unglaub> i don't get the point of "all the others  also don't to it"
[16:58] <leo-unglaub> u1 is a native linux client..
[16:58] <leo-unglaub> and i think every wayy to make it better is soe thing to think about..
[16:58] <leo-unglaub> we are not apple where we do like your clients are stupid..
[16:58] <dobey> better is not an objective thing
[16:59] <leo-unglaub> linux users always care about security..
[16:59] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: yes but encrypted all the way is not objectively better. Obviously better for your use case, not great if you want to view your contacts on the web or stream your music
[16:59] <dobey> linux users don't care any more or less about about security than any other users
[16:59] <thisfred> it's a tradeoff between features and levels of security
[16:59] <beuno_> leo-unglaub, our target also isn't "linux users", we have a Windows client, android, iOS
[17:00] <beuno_> building more
[17:00] <thisfred> and for some data, for some users encrypting by default is not the best choice
[17:03] <leo-unglaub> well, i know you have clients for other os, but everyone knows that even on linux there are not so much users..
[17:03] <dobey> s/knows/assumes/
[17:04] <thisfred> s/everyone/?/
[17:04] <leo-unglaub> you hear things in some channels ;)
[17:04] <leo-unglaub> but thats not the point..
[17:05] <beuno> leo-unglaub, the point is Ubuntu One's main focus is not maximum security, it's convenience
[17:05] <beuno> so that's what drives everything we do
[17:05] <beuno> making things more convenient to users
[17:05] <dobey> the most secure data, is no data
[17:06] <ralsina> dobey: the most secure data is sorted data. bit-sorted.
[17:06] <thisfred> most secure sync is cp * /dev/null
[17:07] <leo-unglaub> ....
[17:07] <dobey> ralsina: i have the bestest encryption method ever. it's also the best compression. it just replaces everything with 0s
[17:07] <leo-unglaub> well, i thought it woul be in your interest to have a sync for thunderbird, filezilla, pidgin in u1, but sadly you donÄt care..
[17:07] <dobey> nobody can read it after, not even you!
[17:07] <leo-unglaub> okay, so i won't implement it
[17:07] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: we do care
[17:07] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: it's just that we are not going to implement ecryption across the whole stack to get it
[17:08] <dobey> leo-unglaub: login information is not something you should just blindly sync
[17:08] <dobey> leo-unglaub: and thunderbird has u1 support
[17:08] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: and break file publishing, folder sharing, and other stuff to get it
[17:08] <leo-unglaub> dobey: the thunderbird support is broken sience a few versions
[17:09] <dobey> leo-unglaub: i don't mean the desktopcouch thing
[17:10] <leo-unglaub> i don't know any other way of doing it..
[17:10] <leo-unglaub> but maybe i missed something there..
[17:11] <dobey> there's a new thing in thunderbird that has support for u1, but i forget what it's called
[17:11] <dobey> though i don't think it is for syncing contacts
[17:11] <leo-unglaub> you mean the eds contacts?
[17:12] <dobey> oh, "filelink"
[17:13] <dobey> eds is how thunderbird contacts sync currently works
[17:13] <leo-unglaub> with don't work as expected
[17:13] <leo-unglaub> but..again...thats not the point i am trying to make
[17:16] <leo-unglaub> so, to make this short..you are not planing to add encription to securen the user data and respect there privacy?
[17:17] <thisfred> leo-unglaub: we have no plans to add encryption by default at this point, no
[17:17] <leo-unglaub> no one is talking about default...simply an option to allow it would be also fine..give users the choice..
[17:18] <dobey> you have the option now
[17:18] <thisfred> they have the choice :)h
[17:18] <thisfred> app developers can choose to use encryption, as can individual users
[17:19] <ralsina> leo-unglaub: we respect their privacy, thank you very much.
[17:30] <leo-unglaub> sry, brb we can continue this later
[17:50] <joshuahoover> ralsina: any idea what would cause this error on ubuntu? ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.StorageClient - INFO - Connection lost, reason: [Failure instance: Traceback (failure with no frames): <class 'OpenSSL.SSL.Error'>: [('SSL routines', 'SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE', 'certificate verify failed')]
[17:50] <mandel__> gatox, ralsina, alecu, may I have reviews for https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-client/darwin-inhibitor/+merge/112179
[17:50] <ralsina> mandel: will review
[17:50] <ralsina> joshuahoover: looking
[17:50] <mandel__> is super easy, just fixes the inhibitor issues in windows and darwin
[17:51] <gatox> mandel_, yes
[17:51] <joshuahoover> thanks
[17:51] <ralsina> joshuahoover: looks like it maybe failed to connect to the server
[17:51] <mandel__> gatox, thx!
[17:51] <mandel__> mandel, dude, you are goood looking!
[17:51] <ralsina> alecu: any ideas for joshuahoover ^
[17:51] <mandel__> :P
[17:51] <joshuahoover> ralsina: right, i haven't seen that particular error before...and user has tried connecting with no luck so far
[17:51] <gatox> mandel__, i'm still fixing the branch with your comments..... when i finish (the first time), i realize i did it in a different branch
[17:51]  * gatox wants to kill himself
[17:52] <mandel__> gatox, hehe
[17:52]  * gatox thinks he should sleep more
[17:52] <ralsina> mandel: +1
[17:53] <mandel__> ralsina, thx!
[17:54] <gatox> when i see from ralsina : +1 code review...... i understand: you, the next one..... run the tests!
[17:54] <gatox> ralsina, yes sir! :P
[17:54] <mmcc> lunchtime...
[17:56] <alecu> ralsina: catching up with the backlog....
[17:57] <alecu> mandel__: do I owe you more re-reviews? can you send me the links?
[17:57] <mandel__> alecu, let me check
[17:58] <mandel__> alecu, this is the only one https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-client/better-encoding/+merge/111580
[18:02] <gatox> mandel__, +1
[18:03] <mandel__> gatox, thx
[18:09] <alecu> joshuahoover: can you get SD logs for that error?
[18:09] <joshuahoover> alecu: i have them...i'll paste a sample for you
[18:48] <gatox> fuuuuuuu never again a branch so big......
[18:56] <gatox> alecu, ping
[18:57] <alecu> gatox: tell me
[18:57] <alecu> gatox: (I've got 5 mins before leaving for kinder)
[18:58] <gatox> alecu, your comment in my second branch: 	if not isinstance(path, unicode):
[18:58]  * gatox types fast
[18:58] <gatox> alecu, i fix that in the next branch, where i actually add the things for mac.....
[18:58] <gatox> where i added a assert to see if we receive bytes
[18:58] <gatox> which is actually what the lib wants
[18:58] <gatox> alecu, so, if it's ok with you, in the second branch i should only fix the docstring
[18:59] <dobey> what a day
[18:59] <alecu> gatox: no problem!
[18:59] <gatox> alecu, cool
[19:00] <gatox> alecu, mandel did a really complete review of darwin3..... and i already fix that.... so you can maybe take a look at that one when you have a moment
[19:00] <alecu> gatox: sure
[19:00] <gatox> alecu, muchas thanks!
[19:00] <alecu> gatox: you're nada!
[19:00] <gatox> :P
[19:01] <alecu> gatox: i mean "de welcome".
[19:01] <gatox> that doesn't sound very wellll
[19:01] <gatox> jejeje
[19:01] <alecu> gatox: lols, yes.
[19:01] <gatox> jejeej
[19:25] <gatox> alecu, branc updated
[19:35] <dobey> ralsina, briancurtin, joshuahoover: what's the bug # for the "doesn't start in win xp" problem?
[19:35] <briancurtin> looking
[19:36] <briancurtin> dobey: #1017019
[19:36] <joshuahoover> beat me to it
[19:36] <dobey> bug #1017019
[19:45] <dobey> thanks
[20:00] <mmcc> ugh, more implicit reactor installation on windows than on darwin...
[20:02] <mmcc> do we *really* need to import controlpanel.backend just to get UBUNTUONE_LINK ?
[20:03] <mmcc> (in ubuntuone/controlpanel/gui/__init__.py:26)
[20:03] <gatox> ok...... eod for me..... and i need to go to the doctor in a while...... so, bye people!! see you tomorrow!
[20:04] <mmcc> bye gatox
[20:05] <mmcc> so we have a toplevel 'constants.py' (generated from .in in setup) where UBUNTUONE_LINK (and a lot of other stuff in gui/__init__.py ) should probably go, IMO
[20:06] <mmcc> anyone want to comment on moving more constants into toplevel constants.py.in?
[20:06] <mmcc> alecu, ralsina, dobey ^
[20:06] <dobey> not sure
[20:07] <ralsina> mmcc: I am ok with it, in principle, but I would ask nessita for her opinion, too
[20:11] <mmcc> ok
[20:12] <mmcc> hmm, nessita not around right now?
[20:12] <ralsina> mmcc: looks like she isn't
[20:14] <mmcc> well, the other solution is to install the qt4reactor first on windows, since that seems to work (not sure why), and move it after the UniqueApplication init just for darwin
[20:14] <mmcc> that'd require less moving things around
[20:16] <briancurtin> ah wtffffffff XP
[20:16] <dobey> mmcc: it's tuesday. she's at uni in the afternoon
[20:20] <ralsina> briancurtin: details, please
[20:20] <ralsina> briancurtin: not that I disagree, in general
[20:21] <mmcc> ah, ok thanks dobey
[20:23] <briancurtin> ralsina: just trying to get an XP-built installer to work on XP. i have the env setup but something is missing. its less of an XP problem that im currently complaining about. i cant tell if bitrock or py2exe is behaving differently here or what because pkg_resources isnt being found (from distribute) even though its in the env and i can import it.
[20:23] <briancurtin> anyway, yeah, just trying to build an installer on XP itself which i can then try out on my 100% clean XP image (which contains no vs2008 crt)
[20:24] <ralsina> briancurtin: ack :-(
[20:24] <briancurtin> $200 later i have a nice VM setup to test vanilla XP, though
[20:31] <ralsina> $200?
[20:32] <briancurtin> ralsina: that's what it costs to buy VMWare Workstation. the free ones don't let you snapshot or easily create duplicates. now i have a base install with nothing, cloned it and built a dev environment, and when i can make a functioning installer out of it, i'll run it on the vanilla XP image
[20:32] <ralsina> briancurtin: ouch
[20:32] <briancurtin> oh, and they have a free 30-day trial which is only useful if you just want to start it up and look at it. actually turning on a VM requires that you pay
[20:33] <ralsina> briancurtin: virtualbox has those things... It does have an unfortunate tendency at exploding every 4or 6 months for me, butnot for everyone!
[20:34] <briancurtin> i've been meaning to get VMWare Workstation for a while, never really knew about virtualbox. i probably should have researched...just wanted to get this going ASAP so i can get it over with
[20:34] <ralsina> have to EOD to pick my kid from football
[20:34] <briancurtin> see ya
[20:35] <ralsina> briancurtin: good luck with that, send me a status email please?
[20:35] <ralsina> will drop by and do stuff late at night. bye!
[20:35] <briancurtin> ralsina: hopefully i have more than "XP is awful", but yeah i'll write something up
[20:38] <ralsina> briancurtin: hehe, let's hope :-)
[20:41] <mmcc> urgh.
[20:41] <dobey> i suppose i should name my new workstation the same as my current workstation is named
[20:41] <mmcc> reactor imported in filesystem_notifications too, I just missed it because I don't have gatox's branch yet
[20:42] <dobey> as i have done for the past however many times I've upgraded it
[20:46] <dobey> thisfred, mmcc: sanity check please https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-dev-tools/update-4-0/+merge/112217
[20:49] <thisfred> yours or mine?
[20:53] <mmcc> approved, dobey
[20:53] <dobey> thanks
[21:02] <alecu> mmcc: ralsina: tuesday evening is the time nessita goes to teach, so better ask her tomorrow.
[21:03] <alecu> doh, dobey already said so.
[21:05] <dobey> heh
[21:08] <dobey> hrmm
[21:08] <dobey> today has been a bad brain day
[21:14] <briancurtin> oh wtf. am i really going to have to build this installer, see what fails, add a new file, build it, see what fails, over and over.........
[21:14] <briancurtin> jeuss
[21:14] <briancurtin> jesus, even
[21:18] <dobey> briancurtin: did you not read the fine print in the job description? pretty sure it said "mechanical turk" in there. :)
[21:19] <briancurtin> it seems like the build process on XP included all standard library modules which *aren't* needed, rather than trimming to just the ones it needs
[21:20] <dobey> lovely
[21:20] <briancurtin> oh py2exe, how fun you are
[21:24] <mmcc> argh, even importing setup_logging eventually creates a reactor
[21:24] <mmcc> via filesystem_notifications this time
[21:24] <mmcc> (on windows, and soon on darwin too)
[21:25] <dobey> heh
[21:25] <mmcc> I think I'm going to need to fix it now on windows, then wait for the various filesystem_notifications darwin branches to land, and fix it there too...
[21:26] <mmcc> where fix it means move the 'import reactor' into a few functions so we don't create a new one too early... that's already been done in a few other places, by nessita no less
[21:27] <alecu> mmcc: yes, some of those bits are awful
[21:31] <mmcc> yeah, I was trying to think just now what I'd prefer twisted to do. obviously not start the wrong reactor when I import it. I think I could handle needing to do something like 'from twisted.internet import get_reactor' and 'reactor = get_reactor()' or something
[21:34] <dobey> ok, i'm off
[21:34] <dobey> have a good evening all
[21:43] <briancurtin> ralsina: i got a trunk installer to work on XP after manually running vcredist before installing. i think we may need to condition the installer to run vcredist on XP - i am 99% sure 7/vista won't need it but im setting up clean VMs for them right now
[21:56] <mmcc> briancurtin: how much do you know about pyqt/qt4reactor on windows? I'm about to make a change so that on windows we install the reactor after we've inited the QApplication. On darwin this makes qt4reactor create a QCoreApplication, which messes up the GUI event handling. I swear windows should have the same problem, but it doesn't...
[21:56] <briancurtin> mmcc: nothing
[21:57] <mmcc> ok, cool. well, if it blows up I know how to make it work again
[21:57] <briancurtin> mmcc: i know how to install pyqt and that's the extent of my pyqt experience
[21:57] <mmcc> do you know much about straight Qt? the issue is really that we create a QCoreApplication when we want a QApplication
[21:58] <mmcc> I haven't read up on what exactly that changes, but it's clear that GUI apps need a QApplication
[21:58] <mmcc> anyway, thanks :)
[21:58] <briancurtin> mmcc: nope, ive never done anything relating to Qt of any form. i have somehow avoided it up until apparently now
[21:58] <briancurtin> or, until this testability debacle as well
[22:05] <alecu> mmcc: I'm not a fan of messing too much with the qtreactor + pyqt stuff on windows... I recall it took a while to make it work properly.
[22:07] <alecu> mmcc: I hate the qtreactor in fact, and as soon as we can get rid of it, I'll be 38% happier.
[22:07] <mmcc> alecu, understood. were the earlier problems this "reactor already installed" error, or somethign else?
[22:07] <alecu> mmcc: "reactor already installed" is the milder of the problems :-)
[22:08] <mmcc> because I think I have a handle on that, but if I'm about to smack another beehive I'd like to know
[22:08] <alecu> mmcc: I've got a few segfaults
[22:08] <mmcc> :(
[22:08] <mmcc> well, I could certainly leave the win32 specific code as-is, and just do different stuff on darwin...
[22:08] <alecu> mmcc: "already installed" has to be worked around by moving imports around and into functions, as you've already appreciated...
[22:09] <alecu> mmcc: but in my experience initialization order issues are much trickier
[22:09] <mmcc> I wonder if the segfaults are related to having the QCoreApp instead of the QApp...
[22:09] <alecu> mmcc: for the reactor initializations, having different stuff on both platforms is just fine with me.
[22:10] <mmcc> ok, cool.
[22:10] <mmcc> that said, as I mentioned above, I'm missing something because the code as it is *should* blow up on windows too
[22:16] <mmcc> so - despite my curiosity about what's going on with windows, I'll just leave it alone and fix it for darwin separately
[22:50] <mmcc> hrm, installing the reactor in main() breaks tests, which have already installed their own reactor.


[16:51] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4764e3a96f22f846ee7e21f7043abb5a3af7ac26>)
[22:13] <mattkae[m]> Happy monday 💻
[22:13] <mattkae[m]> - Responded to more feedback on https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2981 (now the focus order is equal to the Z-order)
[22:13] <mattkae[m]> - Fixed the Alt + Tab issue with firefox: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2988