[11:05] <xnox> jodh:  https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Parallel-Test-Harness.html#Parallel-Test-Harness
[11:06] <jodh> ack.
[11:06] <jodh> xnox: I've just updated lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/serialise-remaining-objects with the new tests we discussed yesterday. Can you review when you get a chance so we can discuss the backporting after lunch?
[11:07] <xnox> jodh: right. I was starting to rereview your changes from 18h ago. will pull again.
[11:07] <jodh> xnox: thanks
[11:29] <xnox> jodh: hmm..... shouldn't there also be: upstart-1.8 +full_serial +apparmor? since as soon as we merge this branch that's what the current format is going to become
[12:16] <jodh> xnox: yep - on it...
[12:25] <jodh> ok - branch updated.
[12:50] <xnox> jodh: looks good. I guess none of the jobs use apparmor_switch yet?! all dumps just have it as "null" and thus, well it's just forwards compatible stanza then =)))))
[12:53] <jodh> xnox: correct. I guess I could add in some apparmor_switch values for completeness...
[12:54] <xnox> jodh: do you just run your store-dump patch to generate these dumps? are those merged into lp:upstart already
[12:54] <xnox> jodh: to be honest no need, as there are other tests which correctly test strings in that field.
[12:55] <xnox> and i'm sure that we are able to serialise/deserialise strings =)
[12:55]  * xnox prefers real dumps vs artificially constructed dumps.
[12:55] <jodh> xnox: that was my view :)
[13:00] <xnox> ah, write_state_file is in this branch.
[13:02] <xnox> jodh: how do you distinguish between: confsources serialised and fail to deserialise vs not-present.
[13:03] <xnox> and is it possible to distinguish.
[13:08] <jodh> xnox: I think we'd need the STATE_VERSION bits to distinguish between those 2 scenarios reliably.
[13:12] <xnox> jodh: hmm... i would have thought conf_source_deserialise would for example return -1 if 'conf_sources' key is not found in json, and -2 if 'conf_sources' key was found but failed to deserialise in any other way.
[13:13] <xnox> cd ../
[13:16] <jodh> xnox: there is no point distinguishing in fact since we don't know the serialisation format version of the init which is feeding us data. Hence, we error on any unexpected scenario and let the caller decide what to do. And since we only latterly added serialisation of ConfSources but don't have a version number, the best we can do is display a warning.
[13:41] <xnox> jodh: that's  not what I was after. if we do feature detection, and 'conf_sources' key is present in the serialisation format, we expect conf_source_deserialise_all to succeed. Yet, if for example, somewhere inside conf_sources the stream got corrupted (single bit flip in ram), the call to conf_source_deserialise_all will fail, yet state_from_string will return success.
[13:41] <xnox> which is imho wrong.
[13:41] <xnox> this is for the case of latest upstart doing stateful rexec to latest upstart.
[13:51] <xnox> jodh: something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5735811/
[14:34] <jodh> xnox: I guess we could do that, but we'd need to do a bit of rework to make the code consistent in that respect.
[15:55] <xnox> jodh: so is above unreasonable?
[15:56] <jodh> I guess it makes sense to add that check. We still can't detect of course that the ConfSources are missing when we actually expect them to be present, but I can add the extra check.
[15:57] <xnox> jodh: sure, and that's kind of a limitation of feature-based-testing. i wonder if we should be checksumming the serialisation =)
[16:02] <slangasek> xnox: if they're absent and supposed to be present, that's not going to be a bit-flip error :)
[16:03] <slangasek> jodh, xnox: reading scrollback, I agree that we want to distinguish between "this new bit is absent" and "we failed to deserialize this bit".  The -2 == warning isn't very idiomatic, however.  What about just returning 0 for this case?  Or, having the caller check for conf_sources and skip the call to conf_source_deserialise_all() if absent?
[16:04] <jodh> slangasek/xnox: yeah, I vote for the latter as there is already precendent for that.
[16:10] <xnox> slangasek: yeah "-2" is a bit out of the blue. I prefer "having the caller check for conf_sources and skip the call to conf_source_deserialise_all() if absent?" over the '-2' hack.
[16:10] <slangasek> ok
[16:10] <jodh> xnox: it's a shame as it imbues the caller with knowledge of the format of the json, but as you would say "meh" :)
[16:10] <slangasek> then we all agree :)
[16:11]  * jodh is on it...
[16:19] <jodh> slangasek/xnox: branch updated.
[16:57] <xnox> jodh: looks good to me.
[16:58] <xnox> jodh: are you planning to make a release, or simply take a single cherrypick of this both into raring & saucy?
[18:02] <jodh> xnox: well, I had planned on making a release once all the o/s branches had been merged. However, as I'm away for a while, maybe a cherry-pick would be the most expeditious option?
[18:09] <slangasek> xnox: so given that jodh is effectively on [vac] already, I think we need to go the cherry pick route
[18:09] <slangasek> bonus: that means we get to test the cherry-pick in saucy /before/ SRU to raring
[22:03] <xnox> ack.


[00:08] <RoadRunner> can't log into my Xub 20.04 desktop, help?
[00:15] <jehutydegression> Can you provide any details?
[00:18] <RoadRunner> not sure what else to say, everything worked fine since I installed it almost a year ago, but since a few days ago canoot login; type in the pswd the comp doesn't say it is incorrect the login box disapeears, the screen is redawn and then the log in box reappers again
[00:23] <RoadRunner> *redrawn *reappears...
[00:25] <RoadRunner> hope this is enough clues for a coarse of action
[01:05] <guiverc> RoadRunner, if insufficient space exists in $HOME (your user directory), GUI work files won't be able to be created & a GUI login will fail, and you'll get logged out (ie. login loop).  Your text login will still work, so you can explore if you're out of disk space & correct there if that's a problem (ie using `df` or disk free)
[01:13] <RoadRunner> guiverc:  indeed, I was out of space on my (separate) home partition. But after this, I logged in without issues from my older 16.04 backup partition and liberated about 3GB of space (out of 15 total on my Home partition); restarted (warm reboot), and still could not loggin into the 20.04 partition. Should I try a cold reboot or something more?
[01:15] <guiverc> you don't need anything like GB of free space.. but if that's your issue; once resolved a GUI login should proceed normally (next attempt).  Next likely cause would be a change made in last session where it worked; can you think of any?
[01:29] <RoadRunner> so how much free space must be available not to end up in a login loop? df says my home use is at 82%; my sda5 (which I believe is my 16.04 install) is at 83% but sda7 (which I believe is my 20.04 install) isn't listed at all. The only thing out of the ordinary, was my booting into an older Win XP partition. After that the login issue started.
[01:33] <RoadRunner> guiverc: GParted shows sda7 with only 478MB of free space. Is that too little?
[01:34] <guiverc> the key area is $HOME or /home/$USER ..  I'm unsure how much space is actually required, but I'd expect a login to work with 478MB available
[01:36] <RoadRunner> can you see a login into Win to be a potential problem (hasn't been one before...)?
[01:38] <guiverc> I don't know how Win relates, I assumed you were asking about Xubuntu; what release are you using?
[01:39] <RoadRunner> guiverc: you must have missed my earlier post, I will repeat it: df says my home use is at 82%; my sda5 (which I believe is my 16.04 install) is at 83% but sda7 (which I believe is my 20.04 install) isn't listed at all. The only thing out of the ordinary, was my booting into an older Win XP partition. After that the login issue started.
[01:41] <guiverc> the % requires me to know the size to be meaningful; Xubuntu 16.04 LTS is EOL as being a flavor; it came with 3 years of support only.  logging into XP won't impact anything
[01:42] <guiverc> only the partitions currently in use (you can login to text terminal & look at what is mounted, or /etc/fstab for the file-system table to see).  Only the currently mounted $HOME matters at gui login.
[01:54] <RoadRunner> guiverc: sda8 (home): 15GB total - 3.4GB unused; sda5: 20.5GB total - 4.4GB unused; sda7: 12GB total - 478MB unused
[01:54] <RoadRunner> currently working from sda5
[01:57] <guiverc> you've tagged sda8 as /home; 3.4gb is plenty.  I originally mentioned a text login, ie. ctrl+alt+F4 or equiv. to switch to text & login & explore for issues
[01:57] <RoadRunner> I haven't tried a cold reboot after I liberated space on home. Maybe that's the next easiest thing to try?
[01:59] <guiverc> no reboot is needed; if it's a space issue, once resolved (via text session), switching back to gui (ctrl+alt+F1) will have the gui login work.
[02:06] <RoadRunner> ok, will have to quit this to find out. Thank's for the help but I have a feeling I'll be back... :)
[06:21] <ironhoof> in 20.04 whats te best way to set home to a second drive? I already ahve it formatted with swap partition
[06:21] <ironhoof> have*
[06:22] <diogenes_> ironhoof, /etc/fstab
[06:23] <ironhoof> ok, what do I add? the uuid from sda2?
[06:24] <diogenes_> UUID=1297d3c7-35c6-44b0-b694-4f2c797b1fae /home          ext4    defaults,noatime 0 2
[06:24] <diogenes_> change your uuid
[06:24] <ironhoof> ok, let me try that
[06:26] <ironhoof> added, let me reboot
[06:30] <ironhoof> hmm, cant tell if it worked, cant mount the drive, and cant check in groupds advanced is blocked off
[06:30] <ironhoof> groups
[06:30] <diogenes_>  findmnt /home
[06:31] <ironhoof> just back to prompt
[06:32] <diogenes_> which means it didn't work.
[06:32] <ironhoof> nods, yea what I figured.
[06:32] <ironhoof> UUID=13b07172-ab78-44f8-be00-be994439d908 /home ext4 defaults,noatime 0 2
[06:34] <diogenes_> try update-initramfs -u
[06:35] <ironhoof> I: Set the RESUME variable to override this.
[06:36] <ironhoof> important?
[06:36] <diogenes_> ignore
[06:36] <ironhoof> ok reboot
[06:38] <ironhoof> wow didnt get very far that disabled the restart and shutdown
[06:38] <ironhoof> hm
[06:39] <ironhoof> not too worried can always reinstall if things go wayward
[06:39] <diogenes_> is that drive even etx4?
[06:39] <ironhoof> checks gparted and disks again
[06:40] <ironhoof> 483 GB Ext4
[06:40] <ironhoof> 17 GB swap part
[06:42] <ironhoof> Ext4 (version 1.0) — Not Mounted
[06:44] <diogenes_> you need to copy your user folder onto the drive.
[06:45] <ironhoof> with or without home itself
[06:45] <ironhoof> i copied it with home
[06:45] <ironhoof> so its media/drive/home/user
[06:47] <diogenes_> ironhoof, here is a more detailed guide: https://www.maketecheasier.com/move-home-folder-ubuntu/
[06:50] <ironhoof> peeks
[06:50] <ironhoof> I'll get it did the swap, thanks for the help
[09:46] <PeGaSuS> I was wondering if there's any way to have a visual notification or something like that, system wide, when  NumLock key is activated/deactivated
[10:08] <PeGaSuS> I don't seem to be able to find anything just for the numlock key and that works on the login screen also
[10:10] <diogenes_> PeGaSuS, numlockx on
[10:18] <PeGaSuS> I've read about it, but that enables numlock by default on boot, right? I mean, I want numlock disabled by default but I'd like a visual notification when I press the numlock key
[10:19] <PeGaSuS> although that visual notification must be for all users and also display the notification on the login screen
[14:48] <xu-help38w> How can I turn off crash/error reporting in xubuntu 20.04
[17:57] <RoadRunner> Can't do gui login into my Xub 20.04 desktop. df is showing my xub 20.04 partition 100% used (home partition 82% used). How to id what filled the xub partition and clean it up?
[18:00] <tomreyn> RoadRunner: how large is / ?
[18:01] <RoadRunner> xub 20.04 is on sda7 which is 12.3 GB
[18:02] <tomreyn> hmm that's not really enough for a desktop system nowadays
[18:02] <tomreyn> maybe you have lvm? sudo vgs
[18:02] <RoadRunner> no lvm
[18:03] <RoadRunner> just ext4
[18:03] <tomreyn> you can regain some space with    sudo apt clean
[18:04] <tomreyn> some more by clearing older files / directrories in /var/tmp
[18:04] <tomreyn> yet more by deleting kernels and initrds you no longer need out of /boot/
[18:06] <RoadRunner> how to tell which kernels and initrds are no longer needed (I thought only three older kernel ver's are suppose to be kept now)?
[18:06] <tomreyn> yet more by deleting software packages you don't need (   apt-mark showmanual    for a list of what's installed)
[18:08] <tomreyn> the current and the latest two are kept now, fo all tracking packages you have installed (for both the original release kernel version + HWE version if you have both tracking packages)
[18:08] <tomreyn> cat /proc/version   hints on what's running
[18:09] <tomreyn> journalctl --rotate    may save yet more space
[18:09] <tomreyn> (but you'll loose older system logs this way)
[18:10] <RoadRunner> I'll try those; any more or is that pretty much the full list?
[18:11] <tomreyn> there is probably more i can't think of right now.
[18:12] <tomreyn> once you regained some space, you can install ncdu and browse directories (run it with sudo) to get a better idea of what consumes how much space. don't delete what you don't know, though
[18:13] <RoadRunner> my current partition worked without issues for close to a year now. What could have changed to cause this now (I haven't installed anything new)?
[18:16] <tomreyn> that's really hard to tell. i would have guessed on software installations indeed
[18:17] <RoadRunner> ok, what size partition would you recommend for a desktop system now?
[18:17] <RoadRunner> for xub 20 and for a current debian?
[18:18] <tomreyn> 20 is usually safe. but it really depends on what you'll install
[18:19] <RoadRunner> 20 for xub 20 or for Debian?
[18:21] <RoadRunner> or both given not a ton of other soft...
[18:22] <tomreyn> this channel is about xubuntu, so xubuntu
[18:24] <jjbuggle> my screen sleep times are not being respected.  It seems to be stuck at around 7 minutes of inactivity, even though I have it set to 2 hours
[18:25] <RoadRunner> tomreyn: Thank you. I also, tried to increase the partition size (I have unpartitioned space) but GParted failed saying I need newer e2fsck (my ver is 1.42.13). Is there a way of getting a newer version without compiling?
[18:26] <tomreyn> RoadRunner: use gparted from an ubuntu installer/live system which is the same version as the one you have installed.
[18:27] <tomreyn> *xubuntu
[18:29] <RoadRunner> ahhh, I was running my Gparted from my older 16.04 partition... I see the light!!! Thank you again :)
[18:30] <tomreyn> :)


[00:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: Xfce 13653
[00:46] <Unit193> :3
[00:52] <bluesabre> Unit193: looks good to me
[00:53] <Unit193> The other one is very Ubuntu specific.
[04:09] <Unit193> bluesabre: What's this in parole?
[04:09] <Unit193> -include /usr/share/dpkg/architecture.mk
[04:09] <Unit193> +#include /usr/share/dpkg/architecture.mk
[04:10] <bluesabre> Unit193: dunno, I didn't put it there (or if I did, by somebody else's suggestion)
[04:10] <Unit193> Not documented, so dropping.  Presuming the build passes.
[04:12] <Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net//source/parole_0.9.2-0ubuntu1.dsc got bored of waiting. :P
[04:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh my, does it fix anything in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole ?
[04:21] <bluesabre> I think so
[04:21] <bluesabre> One sec
[04:22] <Unit193> If you want to list them, you can grab the dsc and flip names if you'd like.
[04:22] <bluesabre> Unit193: I think this is the only one from that list, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1681886
[04:23] <Unit193> OK, thanks.
[04:26] <bluesabre> np
[04:26] <bluesabre> working on documenting exo
[04:26] <bluesabre> gkt-doc is fun...
[04:27] <Unit193> Hah, I bet...Nicer when stuff is auto-generated.
[04:27] <Unit193> OK, well if there's nothing else, off it goes!
[04:28] <eric_the_idiot> if you add the TESTS_ENVIRONMENT stuff from https://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/diff/docs/Makefile.am?id=a9c88f86e9f8384fb441758c853792a66e5fead1 you'll be fixing gtk-doc warnings for days! :)
[04:29] <Unit193> I'm just happy about the minimal delta to Debian!  http://paste.openstack.org/show/AkQb7ltcsKEAWgK6c0Ua
[04:31] <bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: I think I'll avoid that then :D
[04:31] <bluesabre> Unit193: nice work!
[04:31] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, you fixed the bugs!
[04:34] <bluesabre> "git grep" is my new favorite tool
[04:55] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/0.9.2-0ubuntu1
[05:40] <bluesabre> Unit193: much appreciated :)
[05:41] <bluesabre> only a few more things to fix with the exo docs, will wrap that up tomorrow :)
[05:41] <bluesabre> night all
[07:33] <flocculant> bluesabre: re 'Recent Documents' - couple of comments - not sure if the first's a bug or expected, 2nd is a usability thing probably
[07:34] <flocculant> 1 - documents opened as root don't show in th elist
[07:35] <flocculant> 2 - should media even get listed there? imagine someone editing a few docs and then listening to loads of music - music fills up the list, of course you could set plugin to show 1000's of entries ;)
[12:24] <bluesabre> flocculant: root documents would show in the root user... I think?
[12:25] <bluesabre> flocculant: "Recent Documents" as listed in a plugin should probably filter out media files
[17:51] <flocculant> bluesabre: aah yes - that makes more sense for root docs. As far as second goes I'll chech it's not just local and if not report against the plugin
[19:09] <Unit193> akxwi-dave: IIRC, you asked about parole in Artful.  Boop.
[19:09] <Unit193> !info parole artful
[19:16] <ochosi> Unit193: do we have 0.9.2 in a ppa for ZZ too?
[19:16] <Unit193> We don't.
[19:23] <Unit193> ochosi: If you want to try it yourself, I did though.


[05:09] <pitti> Good morning
[05:11] <didrocks> good morning
[05:14] <thumper> hey didrocks
[05:14] <thumper> o/ pitti
[05:14] <thumper> how goes things in the world of client?
[05:14] <didrocks> hey thumper, long time no talk ;)
[05:14] <thumper> I know, right?
[05:14] <didrocks> things are going well, how is it in the cloudy one? :)
[05:14] <thumper> no 'everyone together' things any more
[05:15] <thumper> busy busy
[05:15] <didrocks> yeah, I kind of miss that :(
[05:15] <thumper> the standard "everything takes longer than you think" problem
[05:15] <thumper> also, test fixing takes longer
[05:15] <thumper> dumb intermittent test failures
[05:15] <thumper> that sort of thing
[05:15] <didrocks> same everywhere it seems :)
[05:15] <thumper> I've spent all day chasing two intermittent bugs
[05:15] <thumper> I *think* I have fixed them
[05:15] <thumper> we'll see
[05:16] <didrocks> argh, and no easy reproducer?
[05:16] <thumper> nope
[05:16] <didrocks> I guess having a cloud setup to reproduce is even harder actually
[05:16] <thumper> this was just our unit tests :-|
[05:16] <didrocks> oh waow ::
[05:16] <didrocks> :/
[05:17] <didrocks> and did you get some love for Go, in the end?
[05:17] <pitti> hey thumper
[05:17] <didrocks> I tried for 2-3 days, didn't get that much of it I wanted
[05:17] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[05:17] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[05:18] <thumper> yeah, I'm enjoying Go more now than I did in the past
[05:18] <thumper> I still prefer python for hacking scripts up
[05:18] <thumper> but I'd definitely use Go instead of C or C++ for most other tasks now
[05:19] <didrocks> oh, you have been converted! :)
[05:20] <thumper> I'm sure there are places where C++ is still better
[05:20] <thumper> but they are getting fewer
[05:20] <duflu> thumper: Am I the only one whose view of the language is tarnished by the obese rodent character? :)
[05:20] <didrocks> interesting
[05:20] <thumper> duflu: haha, maybe
[05:20]  * thumper chuckles
[05:21]  * duflu wants slick and fast languages (and mascots)
[05:21] <thumper> funnily enough, there are two big killer things for Go
[05:21] <thumper> compile speed
[05:21] <thumper> and gofmt
[05:22] <thumper> no more arguments about brace position, or where to put whitespace
[05:22] <thumper> I've learned to live with the other deficiencies
[05:22] <didrocks> my only thing I have some "old habits" and hard to get is this not real notion of class
[05:22] <RAOF> Rust looks pretty interesting, but much less actually-usable than Go.
[05:23] <didrocks> and it tried to half-hide the notion of reference… but not that much
[05:24] <thumper> yeah, pointers are still a thing
[07:10] <willcooke> morning
[07:10] <didrocks> hey willcooke! up early today
[07:10] <willcooke> yeah :(
[07:10] <willcooke> children
[07:10] <willcooke> :(
[07:11] <willcooke> or rather, child
[07:11] <didrocks> ahah, a good reason to wake up I guess :)
[07:12] <larsu> good morning!
[07:12] <didrocks> hey larsu :)
[07:12] <larsu> hi didrocks
[07:12] <larsu> morning willcooke!
[07:13] <larsu> how are you guys going?
[07:13]  * willcooke is sleepy and grumpy
[07:13] <willcooke> ;)
[07:13] <didrocks> time for a 1o1! :)
[07:13] <larsu> haha
[07:14] <willcooke> I feel sorry for FJKong, he's up first today
[07:15]  * FJKong agree willcooke
[07:15] <willcooke> :D
[07:16] <didrocks> you agree to be sorry for yourself? :)
[07:40] <JackYu> Laney, hi, could you please take a look the merge request at https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-cdimage/kylin/+merge/232829
[07:45] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:45] <seb128> Laney, hey, he's on holidays, should be back tomorrow
[07:45] <didrocks> JackYu: ^
[07:46] <pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu ? tu est retour à ton ancien temps de se lever :)
[07:47] <pitti> didrocks: ^ il doit te visiter à nouveau !
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, salut, je suis fatigué donc je dors un peu plus, je vais essayer de me réveiller plus tôt de nouveau quand ça ira mieux
[07:47] <JackYu> didrocks, seb128, :(
[07:47] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[07:47] <didrocks> pitti: ahah, j'ai fait la même blague avec le "seb128 est de retour en France, ça se voit" ;)
[07:47] <pitti> seb128: :( (I was just kidding)
[07:48] <willcooke> JackYu, he's likely to be on email later on - I will email him
[07:48] <JackYu> Bonjour tout le monde
[07:48] <seb128> pitti, no worry, I'm not sick, just a bit tired ;-)
[07:48] <JackYu> willcooke, thanks:)
[07:49] <seb128> willcooke, he has an IRC proxy, he's going to see the ping, no need of emails
[07:49] <seb128> imho
[07:49] <seb128> but he's flying atm/or just back
[07:49] <didrocks> morning JackYu
[07:49] <seb128> let him time to settle down
[07:51] <willcooke> seb128, ahh yes, I see that.  Ok, so JackYu Laney will get on to that asap
[07:52] <JackYu> great, thanks all.
[08:13] <seb128> larsu, do you think we need to hide the cog menus in GNOME apps if we add a menubar? or should we keep those widgets and just add the menubar for users who like to use those menus?
[08:13] <seb128> larsu, in evince you made it hide the button in the toolbar when the menus are displayed, but I wonder if we should just not bother/keep the ui and add the menu as well
[08:15] <larsu> seb128: hm, good question
[08:15] <larsu> my first instinct is to hide them
[08:15] <seb128> why?
[08:15] <larsu> which is why I did that in evince
[08:15] <larsu> not sure
[08:15] <larsu> I think becasue I dislike having duplicate ui
[08:16] <seb128> I would default to "let the widget like, those who know it/want to use it can"
[08:16] <seb128> especially that the menus are sort of hidden
[08:16] <larsu> and what's the point of having the menubar if you can just use the gear?
[08:16] <seb128> the point is why we add those menus back
[08:16] <larsu> but like I said. Good Question
[08:16] <seb128> consistency between apsp
[08:16] <didrocks> does the gear cover exactly the same items than the menubar?
[08:16] <larsu> seb128: I don't have a thought out opinion yet
[08:16] <seb128> it's where they traditionally
[08:16] <seb128> it's where they traditionally are
[08:16] <larsu> true, true
[08:17] <larsu> didrocks: not always
[08:17] <seb128> didrocks, as you want
[08:17] <larsu> ubt usally
[08:17] <larsu> *usually
[08:17] <seb128> didrocks, we create the menubar for unity, so we can put whatever we want in there
[08:17] <larsu> often they leave away stuff that people know by now and never use the menus for
[08:17] <seb128> I think we did cover everything that is in the cog
[08:17] <larsu> such as cut/copy/paste
[08:18] <didrocks> I guess what seb128 says makes sense, hiding the cog then, but then, there is the question of chromium and other things with the sandwich menu…
[08:18] <seb128> didrocks, I was in favor of not hiding it :p
[08:18] <seb128> chromium has both
[08:19] <larsu> seb128: do we patch it to have a traditional menubar or does that come from upstream?
[08:19] <seb128> no idea
[08:19] <seb128> question for qengho
[08:19] <seb128> or didrocks
[08:19] <didrocks> it's starting to a be a common pattern (even on the web), so maybe yeah, keeping it would make sense. Sad for the duplication with menus, but they are hidden anyways, so we can take them as "shortcuts through the HUD"
[08:19] <larsu> *cough*
[08:19] <didrocks> larsu: it's from upstream
[08:19] <larsu> oh, wow
[08:20] <didrocks> so yeah, they do have menus + cog
[08:20] <larsu> I wonder how new style ubuntu desktop apps will handle this
[08:20] <larsu> will they have traditional menus?
[08:20] <didrocks> they will have HUD content, not sure for menus
[08:20] <seb128> let's see the day we do a developer desktop
[08:20] <larsu> will unity8 look similar (with the menus in the panel) to what we have today?
[08:20] <seb128> currently the new desktop is one of tablet users
[08:20] <seb128> those apps are not complex enough to have menus
[08:20] <didrocks> but I guess export menus is mainly for HUD nowdays
[08:20] <seb128> neither cog nor menubars
[08:20] <larsu> right, currently
[08:21] <larsu> didrocks: ya
[08:21] <larsu> seb128: I'm asking because if we'd know how unity8 will do it we might accomodate for that
[08:21] <larsu> like, leave the cog for transition if we're going cog as well
[08:21] <seb128> larsu, my gut feeling is that we don't know, nobody looked at that yet
[08:21] <seb128> we focus on the desktop-for-tablet-users atm
[08:21] <didrocks> most of the platform, android included has a cog anyway
[08:22] <seb128> if anything
[08:22] <didrocks> so it can be an expected user pattern
[08:22] <seb128> but afaik design didn't even focus on unity8-desktop yet
[08:22]  * mpt drinks a bottle of vodka
[08:22] <seb128> mpt, hey
[08:22] <seb128> mpt, :-(
[08:22] <mpt> Con-versh-ince!!!!
[08:22] <seb128> didrocks, I hope we are not doomed at copying android
[08:22] <didrocks> it's more Con-versh-hips ;)
[08:23]  * seb128 hates cog menus on desktop
[08:23] <larsu> so does mpt...
[08:23] <seb128> they might make sense on small screens
[08:23] <didrocks> seb128: the web has it, so we'll have it anyways
[08:23] <seb128> but a menubar is much easier to access, would it only because it's always in the corner
[08:23] <didrocks> even if it's only in a browser
[08:23] <seb128> didrocks, that doesn't mean it's not a sucky user experience and than we can't do better
[08:24] <didrocks> well, people will still browse the web :)
[08:24] <seb128> yeah, and still hate it
[08:24] <seb128> we can do better ;-)
[08:24] <mpt> didrocks, the Web has cog menus *because* by its nature it can’t have decent pulldown menus
[08:24] <larsu> like I said, I can see leaving them there if we'll use cog menus in the future
[08:24] <larsu> otherwise I don't see the point of duplicating stuff
[08:24] <mpt> though Google Docs puts a lot of effort into trying
[08:25] <larsu> mpt: those menus are atrocious
[08:25] <seb128> mpt, ok, the question is, if a GNOME app has a cog menu, and we distro patch a classic menubar as well, should we hide the cog under Unity or just have both available
[08:25] <larsu> but then, so are the rest of those apps
[08:25] <mpt> I remember trying to implement hierarchical subsubsubsubmenus for Launchpad
[08:26]  * mpt gets another bottle of vodka
[08:26] <larsu> I feel sorry for you :)
[08:26] <mpt> seb128, I would say, hide the cog
[08:26] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[08:28] <didrocks> seb128: just a note on the cog menu on android, it's not all or none. You have three properties: "always in the actionbar (the bar containing the title)", "if enough room, otherwise cog" (depending on screen size), "always in cog"
[08:28] <seb128> didrocks, they work fine on android because you use you finger and it's easy to click on them
[08:28] <seb128> didrocks, I hate using cogs on the web in a desktop webbrowser
[08:29] <seb128> didrocks, it's not in an easy target like a corner
[08:29] <larsu> mpt: I agree with you that we should hide them on our current desktop. But in general, I think cog menus are preferable to the global menu bar
[08:29] <seb128> didrocks, it's also less handy to navigate than a menubar
[08:29] <larsu> mpt: especially on unity, where we don't even show it
[08:29] <didrocks> seb128: I don't agree on the navigating part (I hate menu for that, properties are in File, Edit or Project?), but yeah, agreed about the easy target one
[08:29] <larsu> the problem with cogs is that you have one menu that contains all the things
[08:30] <larsu> and you have no idea whether the thing you're looking for is in there
[08:30] <seb128> didrocks, a flat menu with 30 items and 5 submenus is not easy to "find the right submenu" than it is in a menubar
[08:30] <didrocks> seb128: if you have a flat menu with 30 items, there is an issue with your apps IMHO :)
[08:30] <seb128> didrocks, or that you are libreoffice
[08:31] <seb128> or google doc
[08:31] <seb128> it needs those items
[08:31] <seb128> those do a lot of actions
[08:31] <didrocks> you don't need to put everything you have in a menu in the cog
[08:31] <seb128> well, then you have a tradtionnal menubar :-)
[08:31] <didrocks> or subscreens
[08:31] <didrocks> like preferences one
[08:31] <seb128> or 3 toolbars stacked with stack of icons
[08:32] <larsu> office 95!
[08:32] <seb128> well, office has lot of normal actions
[08:32] <seb128> those shouldn't be in subscreens
[08:32] <didrocks> I don't think you use 3 toolbars stacked with stack of icons on a daily basis, even on an office app
[08:32] <seb128> look at the edit menu of writer
[08:33] <seb128> how do you decide what actions are used or not?
[08:33] <larsu> seb128: http://weblog.sinteur.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/WordToolbars.jpg
[08:33] <seb128> larsu, ;-)
[08:34] <larsu> if only we had some way to search through them!
[08:34] <larsu> maybe if I press my Alt key..
[08:34] <didrocks> :)
[08:35] <larsu> anyway, back to the original question.
[08:35] <seb128> didrocks, well, even google doc has traditionnal menus, and if you look at insert/format/tools in a document, they have a least a good 30 items
[08:35] <didrocks> seb128: indeed, but most of same mirror what you get in the toolbar or right click
[08:36] <seb128> toolbar has like 15 items
[08:36] <larsu> I've seen lots of people use that menu, though
[08:36] <seb128> I do
[08:36] <larsu> (anecdotal blah blah)
[08:36] <larsu> I don't, but I don't use gdocs
[08:36] <seb128> anyway let's agree to disagree
[08:36] <seb128> I find menubar useful and I'm glad even google decide to keep them when it's useful ;-)
[08:37] <didrocks> (btw, little tip: Alt + / enables to search the menu)
[08:37] <seb128> didrocks, where/how?
[08:37] <seb128> doesn't work in firefox+gdoc
[08:37] <didrocks> seb128: google doc?
[08:37] <didrocks> works in chrome
[08:38] <seb128> k
[08:38] <larsu> welcome to the web!
[08:38] <seb128> I guess another custom hack that works only in chrome :/
[08:38] <didrocks> possibly, yeah
[08:39] <didrocks> I could test if firefox wasn't freezing at startup here :/
[08:39]  * didrocks kills and restarts
[08:40] <didrocks> (indeed, doesn't work on firefox)
[08:41] <seb128> :-(
[08:41] <seb128> larsu, k, sorry, back to the topic ... do you think we should resolve other questions, or just hide the cog as mpt recommended?
[08:42] <larsu> seb128: no just that question and I think we should go with mpt's advise
[08:42] <seb128> +1
[08:42] <larsu> *advice
[08:42] <larsu> I hope he didn't drink himself into a coma yet
[08:50] <mpt> (×__×)
[13:29] <seb128> larsu, so, you special cases california in the theme, are they doing something really special, or is that an open door to have to add other similar hacks for other applications?
[13:30] <larsu> seb128: their panes are eventtboxes
[13:30] <seb128> do you know/if that's common?
[13:30] <larsu> we used to have a rule that just set the bg of GtkEventBox (for deja-dup)
[13:30] <larsu> but setting that breaks selections in list boxes
[13:30] <larsu> which are used all over the place
[13:30] <larsu> not very common
[13:30] <larsu> I don't know why deja dup uses them
[13:31] <seb128> k
[13:31] <seb128> I guess we can land that and see what issues it creates
[13:31] <larsu> yes, that would be cool
[13:31] <seb128> I've the feeling we are going to find other eventbox users :/
[13:31] <larsu> probably
[13:32] <larsu> I've investigated how we could fix o-s
[13:32] <larsu> but I really don't want to
[13:32] <larsu> and it's quite a bit of work
[13:32] <larsu> but doable
[13:32] <seb128> k
[13:32] <seb128> maybe you could dump that knowledge in a launchpad bug?
[13:32] <seb128> it would avoid loosing it/having to repeat, and we would have that recorded somewhere
[13:33] <larsu> there's not that much knowledge besides "don't use native windows"
[13:33] <larsu> but making a bug might be a good idea anyway
[13:33] <larsu> so that we can track progress if there will be some
[13:33] <larsu> :)
[13:33] <seb128> right
[13:34] <seb128> have a place to state "that's what we should, patches are welcome" as well ;-)
[13:34] <seb128> who knows
[13:34] <larsu> Company might jump in and write it for us!
[13:35] <seb128> lol
[13:53] <larsu> seb128: bug #1367764
[13:53] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[14:02] <seb128> larsu, ok, so the approach of "make GtkHeaderBar not the decoration and stack it as a toolbar seems to work nicely enough
[14:02] <seb128> Laney, ^
[14:02] <seb128> just did that for evince as an experimentation, and it's looking alright
[14:02] <seb128> we might be able to have small patches that allows us to unblock apps updates
[14:03] <larsu> I agree that this looks good for some apps
[14:03] <larsu> but you'll need to remove the title
[14:03] <larsu> that would be really nice
[14:04] <seb128> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/evince.png
[14:04] <seb128> that's 3.13.91 on utopic
[14:04] <larsu> perfect!
[14:04] <seb128> :-)
[14:04] <larsu> thanks!
[14:04] <seb128> yw!
[14:20] <seb128> larsu, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1367769
[14:21] <seb128> attente_, oh, that might be useful for you, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/unity-system-compositor/0.0.5+14.10.20140910-0ubuntu1 :-)
[14:23] <larsu> seb128: cool. I'll have a look
[14:30] <didrocks> willcooke: popey: https://plus.google.com/+DidierRoche/posts/7LpwuwqDJMa
[14:30] <didrocks> popey: try to take my server down! static page + cloudflares
[14:31] <popey>  ✔ Challenge accepted
[14:32] <didrocks> :)
[14:32]  * davmor2 hits the server power lead with an axe,  Done!
[14:32] <didrocks> davmor2: no no, only legit ways!
[14:34] <attente_> seb128: thanks, i saw that, but didn't manage to test it :)
[14:36] <larsu> seb128: the changelog diff looks suspivious
[14:36] <larsu> *suspicious
[14:37] <seb128> larsu, we usually drop all ubuntu changelog entry (at least in desktop land) when we resync on debian
[14:37] <seb128> that's a bit controversal, but it's annoying to merge those, and those entries are recorded in launchpad/would be dropped if we had a direct sync anyway
[14:37] <larsu> okay, that makes sense
[14:38] <larsu> I'm glad we can get rid of that monster patch
[14:38]  * larsu builds
[14:38] <seb128> yeah, me too
[14:39] <seb128> larsu, btw I opened https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736419 let's see how that goes
[14:39] <seb128> larsu, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736420 as well
[14:39] <seb128> but I didn't add the patch, because I do the getenv XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP != GNOME trick
[14:39] <seb128> which I guess upstream is going to not like
[14:39] <davmor2> didrocks: spoilsport http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/hates-what.png did you mean to put hates?
[14:40] <larsu> seb128: yeah I saw. We still don't have a good way of doing this
[14:40] <larsu> I think desrt said to reuse the dialogusesheader xsetting
[14:40] <popey> didrocks: you should get a bit of traffic now.
[14:40] <didrocks> davmor2: hum? not sure to follow you :)
[14:41] <didrocks>  16:41:03 up 8 days, 52 min,  1 user,  load average: 0,14, 0,40, 0,69
[14:41] <didrocks> popey: try harder ^
[14:41] <didrocks> :)
[14:41] <popey> hehe
[14:41] <seb128> larsu, I guess that's the closest we have
[14:41] <didrocks> popey: but yeah, tail -f on /var/log/apache/… is crazy
[14:42]  * popey adds reddit to the list
[14:42] <larsu> seb128: ya...
[14:42] <didrocks> popey: not sure if LAS mentionned it btw…
[14:42] <larsu> seb128: we could make a new one, but I'm not sure that's worth it
[14:42] <didrocks> popey: I'm still 3 episods late
[14:43] <didrocks> davmor2: oh, seen it! silly you :)
[14:43] <davmor2> didrocks: haha
[14:45] <seb128> larsu, right
[14:45] <seb128> ok, I'm out for some exercice, bbl
[14:45] <larsu> seb128: I'll probably be out when you come back, but I'll be back later. Enjoy!
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, thanks, you too
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, no hurry for evince, it needs a FFe/likely Laney to be back to discuss it
[14:49] <seb128> so tomorrow for example
[14:49] <seb128> bbl
[14:49] <larsu> seb128: I'm building and testing it
[14:50] <larsu> seb128: and read the patches. I'll comment on those parts before I leave
[14:50] <seb128> larsu, thanks, feel free to comment on the merge request
[14:50] <seb128> great
[14:54] <willcooke> popey, could you pimp it via the official Ubuntu accounts too please (if you haven't already)
[14:54] <popey> already done
[14:54] <willcooke> nice one
[14:54] <popey> twitter, fb, G+, reddit...
[14:54] <willcooke> :D
[14:55] <willcooke> nice
[14:56] <didrocks> thanks popey ;)
[14:56] <popey> np
[14:56] <didrocks> you should create an app for that :p
[15:04] <willcooke> going to try and install a cheapo laptop battery I got off ebay.  If I'm not back in 5 mins assume my laptop has exploded.  didrocks - you can have my stuff
[15:05] <didrocks> even the horse head I hope! \o/
[15:09] <willcooke> no electrical fires \o/
[15:11] <didrocks> no horse head for me then :p
[15:11] <willcooke> :)
[15:11] <didrocks> do you know if the battery has the promoted charge?
[15:11] <willcooke> how do you mean?
[15:12] <didrocks> like, some manufacturers don't really deliver the mAh that is written on the label
[15:12] <willcooke> ah
[15:13] <willcooke> well, the original Lenovo battery claimed (according to power statistics) a designed energy of something like 60 Wh
[15:13] <willcooke> but now it says it can only hold 48
[15:14] <willcooke> the new battery says the designed energy is only 48
[15:14] <willcooke> :(
[15:14] <willcooke> so I think I've replaced like for like
[15:14] <willcooke> but it was only 15 quid or something
[15:14] <willcooke> plus it's got to do its first full charge-discharge cycle
[15:14] <didrocks> well, see how it will behave anyway, for this price… :)
[15:14] <didrocks> yeah
[15:15] <willcooke> so I'm hopeful it will improve a bit
[15:15] <willcooke> On my 6 cell battery I'm only getting about 2 hours of casual use
[15:15] <willcooke> I'm sure it used to be more like 4
[15:15] <willcooke> (X220 with an i5 )
[15:15] <didrocks> yeah, it's not exactly proportinal
[15:16] <didrocks> proportional*
[15:16] <didrocks> mine is still 73Wh (9 cell), was 86.6Wh when bought
[15:16] <didrocks> 2 years and half ago
[15:16] <didrocks> so, quite happy with default lenovo battery (touching woods…)
[15:16] <willcooke> :)
[15:17] <davmor2> didrocks: wow you have a wooden lenovo
[15:17] <willcooke> At the very least, I've got a back up battery which can see me through a couple of hours
[15:17] <didrocks> yep ;)
[15:17] <didrocks> davmor2: heh, yeah, I had high expectations after my dell I needed to put in the hoven…
[15:18] <didrocks> (cooking the GPU)
[15:18] <davmor2> didrocks: ouch
[16:59]  * willcooke -> EOD
[16:59] <willcooke> ta ta
[19:28]  * Sweetshark just counted that LibreOffice will play some 55 events around the world this year ...
[19:28] <Sweetshark> (and that number is likely rather moving up)
[21:42] <robert_ancell> desrt, are you familiar with sd-bus?


[05:14] <hawkmentor> h
[05:16] <hawkmentor> could some one point me the right direction for porting of ubuntu to raspberry Pi.
[07:18] <dholbach> good morning
[07:28] <mihir_> \msg dholbach Good Morning :)
[07:28] <mihir_> \msg dholbach Good Morning :)
[08:12] <nik90|Office> WebbyIT, zsombi: Read your conversation yesterday and yes I am excited to see work continue on the Alarms API :-D.
[08:14] <zsombi> nik90|Office of course it does :) no worries, you were not forgotten, it's just it got scheduled for October release and we couldn't squeeze it into beta release
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Yorkshire Day! :-D
[08:45] <gusch> oSoMoN: small MR https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-toolbar-reveal/+merge/177824
[08:50] <oSoMoN> gusch: doen
[08:50] <oSoMoN> done
[08:56] <gusch> oSoMoN: pushed an update
[08:57] <oSoMoN> gusch: you missed a comment it seems (actually the most important one)
[08:58] <oSoMoN> gusch: https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-toolbar-reveal/+merge/177824/comments/401133
[09:00] <gusch> oSoMoN: ooops - I copied that code from one other app, and missed your comment
[09:11] <oSoMoN> gusch: would you mind confirming bug #1207233 ?
[09:11] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1207233 in webbrowser-app "Empty domain names in navigation history" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207233
[09:16] <gusch> oSoMoN: confirmed
[11:02] <dinkometalac> hello everybody
[11:02] <dinkometalac> does anyone know
[11:02] <dinkometalac> if it's possible to change the tab
[11:02] <dinkometalac> from the code
[11:04] <dinkometalac> no need
[11:04] <dinkometalac> i got it
[11:04] <dinkometalac> :)
[12:01] <oSoMoN_> gusch: could you please confirm bug #1207291 ?
[12:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1207291 in webbrowser-app "Suggestions list dismissed when scrolling it" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207291
[12:13] <gusch> oSoMoN_: confirmed, but works on my desktop
[12:17] <gusch> oSoMoN_: can you review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/qtubuntu-camera/qtcamera-block-switch/+merge/178035
[13:00] <oSoMoN_> gusch: when you say it works on the desktop, how do you scroll?
[13:01] <gusch> oSoMoN_: using the mouse: press, move, release
[13:02] <oSoMoN_> gusch: weird, I can reproduce on desktop using this method, I thought you might have used the scrollwheel…
[13:03] <gusch> oSoMoN_: maybe it's the version of webbrowser-app or SDK
[13:04] <oSoMoN_> maybe
[13:37] <om26er> oSoMoN_, ping
[13:37] <om26er> oSoMoN_, you might be interested in bug 1207270
[13:37] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1207270 in Unity 8 "Font size too small in browser with Qt 5.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207270
[13:38] <oSoMoN_> om26er: thanks, will look into it later today
[14:23] <oSoMoN> gusch: this is the MR I was mentioning, for when you have time: https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/webbrowser-app/mainview/+merge/178045
[14:24] <gusch> oSoMoN: ok
[14:32] <boiko> fginther: is CI still running for core-apps? I have seen in an MR of the calculator app that no CI ran there
[14:32] <boiko> fginther: https://code.launchpad.net/~dgadomski/ubuntu-calculator-app/relative-time-formatting/+merge/177651
[14:33] <boiko> fginther: hi, btw :)
[14:33] <fginther> boiko, hello :-)
[14:46] <fginther> boiko, jenkins will only automatically trigger -ci jobs if the branch owner is a member of the appropriate launchpad group (i.e. ubuntu-calculator-dev). -autolanding jobs can be triggered if either the branch owner or approver are members of the launchpad team
[14:46] <fginther> boiko, dgadomski is not a member of the calculator team
[14:46] <boiko> fginther: ah ok, thanks, didn't know that
[14:47] <fginther> boiko, you're welcome
[15:20] <gusch> oSoMoN: code and manual tests look good, but first run of autopilot on the phone failed - checking (again)
[15:21] <oSoMoN> gusch: which tests failed?
[15:22] <gusch> oSoMoN: https://pastebin.canonical.com/95341/
[15:24] <oSoMoN> gusch: ah, I know what it is
[15:25] <oSoMoN> gusch: your test script is to blame :)
[15:25] <oSoMoN> gusch: I had the problem before, and forgot to mention it
[15:25] <oSoMoN> gusch: it installs the packages from the zip file, and then for some reason upgrades the autopilot package (i.e. downgrades it back to the version in the archives)
[15:27] <oSoMoN> gusch: and that’s very likely because you make it run phablet-test-run with -p (not needed, as we are guaranteed that the autopilot package is installed already)
[15:29] <gusch> oSoMoN: ah - cool - thanks for the info
[15:35] <gusch> oSoMoN: can you check again https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-toolbar-reveal/+merge/177824
[15:36] <oSoMoN> gusch: yes, in a moment
[15:39] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: There is no design meeting today. It has been cancelled
[15:39] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: The designers are in a sprint I think.
[15:40] <PaoloRotolo> Hi nik90|Office. Oh, ok...
[15:41] <nik90|Office> yeah I only got to know few minutes back from popey
[15:42] <gusch> oSoMoN: approved
[15:42] <gusch> eod
[15:43] <PaoloRotolo> nik90|Office, so, when is the next meeting?
[15:44] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: We are scheduled to have a design meeting every thursday at 16:00 UTC. However it has been cancelled last week and this week.
[15:45] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: I can only assume it to take place next week same time as scheduled
[15:45] <PaoloRotolo> cool :D
[15:47] <PaoloRotolo> So we're blocked to add new feature on the clock app, right?
[15:54] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: yes we are blocked on design
[15:55] <nik90|Office> PaoloRotolo: I am leaving offfice to go home. Will be online in an hour. Bye
[15:55] <PaoloRotolo> nik90|Office, ok, bye!
[16:06] <jono> nik90, hey
[16:06] <jono> nik90, so we had a discussion today about the alarms API
[16:06] <jono> nik90, it will be complete and delivered by the end of August
[16:06] <jono> the work has been assigned
[16:07] <jono> nik90, what are you blocked on design for?
[16:57] <nik90> jono: Hi
[16:57] <nik90> jono: Just got home
[16:58] <nik90> jono: Regarding design, on a higher level I am blocked on the visual designs for "Alarms", "Adding a timer preset", "Adding an alarm".
[17:00] <nik90> jono: regarding the alarms API, would that also incorporate support from the platform side as well? I heard zsombi will be implementing the sdk part, however the platform needs to support it as well.
[17:05] <mhall119> nik90: don't we have wireframes for adding alarms and presets?
[17:07] <nik90> mhall119: Those wireframes do not hold anymore with the new visual desings. In the case of "Adding a timer preset" those wireframes clash with the visual designs actually
[17:07] <nik90> mhall119: You can see for yourself. Try adding a timer preset and you will a awkward looking "DONE" text in the middle.
[17:09] <mhall119> nik90: ah, yeah, I understand what you mean now
[17:09] <mhall119> that is awkward
[17:12] <nik90> mhall119: exactly. So in the sense of visual designs, we are blocked on that. The old wireframe has to go unfortunately.
[17:13] <mhall119> nik90: was there a design meeting earlier today?
[17:14] <nik90> mhall119: no
[17:14] <mhall119> nik90: who's the designer you've been working with?
[17:14] <nik90> mhall119: I asked popey who said that all the designers were in IoL
[17:14] <nik90> IoM*
[17:15] <mhall119> nik90: they are
[17:24] <nik90> mhall119: just saw your other question, I have been working with Lina and Michal primarily.
[17:34] <mhall119> nik90: ok, I'll send them an email to see if we can get that work done ASAP
[17:35] <nik90> mhall119: okay
[18:15] <mhall119> nik90: email sent, hopefully we'll get that unblocked asap
[18:36] <nik90> mhall119: me too
[20:44] <om26er> boiko, ping
[21:11] <WebbyIT> How can I reset a DB created with QtQuick.LocalStorage from terminal?
[21:13]  * nik90 looks eagerly. Had that question as well.
[21:13] <nik90> WebbyIT: although if it is the terminal couldn't you just remove the files using "rm"?
[21:14] <WebbyIT> nik90, maybe, but where is the file?
[21:14] <nik90> ah that I know
[21:14]  * nik90 realises he is not in ubuntu at the moment :(
[21:15] <nik90> WebbyIT: navigate to .local folder in your home
[21:15] <om26er> salem_, hi
[21:15] <nik90> WebbyIT: in the folder or inside it you should find a folder called Qt Project
[21:15] <WebbyIT> nik90, thanks, /share/Qt Project/QtQmlViewer/QML/OfflineStorage/Databases
[21:16] <nik90> WebbyIT: yup
[21:16] <nik90> WebbyIT: I normally delete them to test a new setup for the clock app
[21:16] <salem_> om26er, hello
[21:16] <om26er> salem_, 'enable-modem /phonesim' crashes the network manager, even though the simulation works
[21:16] <nik90> WebbyIT: although I am looking for ways to do that from the qml app itself.
[21:16] <om26er> salem_, have you tried it recently ?
[21:16] <WebbyIT> nik90, yes, I have a bug for calc app that requires a clean installation...
[21:16] <salem_> om26er, ah, yes, this is a known bug on saucy. try to remove the data contexts
[21:17] <WebbyIT> nik90, a reset button? It's a good idea
[21:17] <om26er> salem_, where to remove ;)
[21:17] <salem_> om26er, there is a script called remove-contexts
[21:17] <nik90> WebbyIT: yes :D. Because I noticed several bug reports because of a database change by me codewise. In those cases I like a reset button
[21:18] <om26er> salem_, if you have it can you email it to me, please.
[21:18] <WebbyIT> nik90, I have to investigate it for the calc app, if I'll found something I tell you :)
[21:18] <salem_> om26er, sure
[21:19] <nik90> WebbyIT: me too :)
[21:19] <salem_> om26er, done
[22:23] <AskUbuntu> How to order the Ubuntu Phone? | http://askubuntu.com/q/327597


[00:17] <wallyworld> axw: a small one https://github.com/juju/charm/pull/160
[00:34] <wallyworld> axw: ty, i've pushed up an additonal change to use typed errors
[00:34] <axw> wallyworld: ok, looking
[00:35] <wallyworld> btw the original imple,entation was sort of on purpose because upstream handled the empty series stuff, but easier to push that down into charm
[00:36] <axw> wallyworld: ok. still LGTM
[00:36] <wallyworld> ty
[00:39] <thumper> wallyworld: quick chat?
[00:39] <wallyworld> sure
[00:40] <thumper> 1:1 hangout
[01:08] <wallyworld> axw: see http://reports.vapour.ws/releases/3124 - it suggests bug 1479546 may be a cause, could you take a look?
[01:09] <mup> Bug #1479546: Storage provisioner timeouts spawning extra volumes on AWS <juju-core:Fix Released by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479546>
[01:09] <axw> wallyworld: looking
[01:09] <wallyworld> ty
[01:11] <axw> wallyworld: as I responded in the bug, it's a different issue. but still an issue nonetheless
[01:11] <axw> wallyworld: I guess we need to increase the timeout
[01:11] <wallyworld> axw: ty, i didn't read the bug too closely
[01:12] <axw> wallyworld: np, I'm just a bit annoyed there's a rule matching a bug which I explicitly stated is not the same. whatever
[01:13] <wallyworld> axw: agreed. is there a bug for the new issue?
[01:13] <axw> wallyworld: about to check and file if not
[01:13] <wallyworld> ty
[01:17] <axw> wallyworld: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1501559
[01:17] <mup> Bug #1501559: provider/ec2: bootstrap fails with "failed to bootstrap environment: cannot start bootstrap instance: tagging root disk: timed out waiting
[01:17] <mup> for EBS volume to be associated" <bootstrap> <ec2-provider> <intermittent-failure> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501559>
[01:17] <wallyworld> ty
[01:17] <axw> wallyworld: there's not much to review. I'll have a look after I've reviewed perrito666's mongo branch
[01:18] <wallyworld> axw: i'll just fix the series on the bug, plus i'll have a review for you real soon :-)
[01:18] <axw> wallyworld: lucky me :)
[01:18] <wallyworld> i know right
[01:22] <mup> Bug #1501559 opened: provider/ec2: bootstrap fails with "failed to bootstrap environment: cannot start bootstrap instance: tagging root disk: timed out waiting
[01:22] <mup> for EBS volume to be associated" <bootstrap> <ec2-provider> <intermittent-failure> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501559>
[01:24]  * perrito666 feels summoned by axw
[01:25] <mup> Bug #1501563 opened: Connection shutdown <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501563>
[01:31] <mup> Bug #1501563 changed: Connection shutdown <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501563>
[01:34] <mup> Bug #1501563 opened: Connection shutdown <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501563>
[01:36] <axw> perrito666: sorry (sorry again), no summoning intended
[01:36] <axw> SORRY
[01:37] <axw> wallyworld: and sorry about continuously setting the wrong milestones on bugs :/
[01:37] <wallyworld> tis ok :-)
[01:37] <axw> wallyworld: it'd be great if it LP didn't let me do that... or was smarter about assigning series from milestones
[01:38] <wallyworld> yes
[01:39] <perrito666> axw: if you really want to troll me, add my name to a bug title and let mup do the rest
[01:40] <axw> perrito666: ok. when you least expect it
[01:40] <axw> could be 2am... could be 5am...
[01:41] <perrito666> axw: could be , yet I dont have notifications for IRC I happen to be working that is Why I saw the notification
[01:41] <axw> :)
[01:41] <perrito666> I have too many troll friends to tie my phone to any sort of exploitable notifications
[01:41] <natefinch> that sounds like a challenge
[01:44] <natefinch> The worst thing that ever happened to me was when somehow my cell number got confused for a fax number.
[01:46] <mup> Bug #1501563 changed: Connection shutdown <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501563>
[01:52] <mup> Bug #1501563 opened: Connection shutdown <ci> <test-failure> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501563>
[01:55] <perrito666> natefinch: I am at phone safe distance
[01:56] <natefinch> good lord, who wrote this crap?  Evidently if you pass "invalid" as a placement directive to the dummy provider, it'll return an error if you try to use that placement
[01:56] <perrito666> natefinch: you can always git blame it :p
[01:57] <natefinch> perrito666: I usually do, but honestly, it doesn't matter.. unless it's someone who has left the company, I can't really call them out on it :/
[01:58] <natefinch> perrito666: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/6e4a2cf80781a77934fcf559f3b7db88b4d9a271/provider/dummy/environs.go#L694
[01:58] <mup> Bug #1501568 opened: TestRebootFromJujuRun Failed <ci> <intermittent-failure> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501568>
[01:58] <perrito666> well you just asked who wrote it :p
[01:58] <natefinch> perrito666: lol.... just a figure of speech, really
[02:00] <perrito666> there is some humor value on "invalid placement is invalid
[02:00] <natefinch> yeah, I thought so
[02:02] <natefinch> blame says axw, but looking at the commit, he just refactored the code someone else wrote.   I need like a blame navigator so I can drill down to who started the whole mess.
[02:03] <axw> natefinch: I think I did write that crap. that's how most of the dummy provider works I think?
[02:03] <axw> natefinch: what's the issue with it, and how would you test placement with the dummy provider differently?
[02:05] <natefinch> axw: sorry for the harsh tone, just frustrated.  My problem is that it's a magic string that causes an error in the dummy provider, and the only way you can know that it is supposed to cause an error is to go read the sourcecode deep in the dummy provider.  I'd much rather have a setting that can be toggled with an obvious name and functionality I can immediately go read.
[02:06] <perrito666> natefinch: you could also change the error string to be more informative
[02:07] <axw> natefinch: no problem. fair enough, it could be more obvious. feel free to change it
[02:07] <natefinch> axw: some context.... I'm here, trying to debug why this test is suddenly failing: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/apiserver/service/service_test.go#L372
[02:07] <perrito666> "%s is invalid, the only valid is blah"
[02:07] <mup> Bug #1501568 changed: TestRebootFromJujuRun Failed <ci> <intermittent-failure> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501568>
[02:07] <natefinch> perrito666: that would help... certainly it would make it more searchable.
[02:08] <axw> natefinch: I see. is this in your unit assigner branch?
[02:08] <natefinch> axw: yes, which, now that I know where this error originates from, I know why it's not getting triggered
[02:09] <axw> natefinch: okey dokey
[02:11] <natefinch> axw:  actually would like your input on this.  Now that the unit assignment is being done in a worker... this will never fail.  The assignment from the worker will fail, but that's obviously asynchronous.  Not sure what to do with this test.
[02:11] <axw> natefinch: we should still be doing the prechecking, even if we don't do assignment
[02:12] <natefinch> axw: hmm good point. I made sure we were still doing some of the more basic parsing, but was missing the precheck.  Cool, I'll hook that in.
[02:13] <axw> natefinch: thanks, SGTM. if it's not obvious, precheck is "are these args obviously wrong". it can still fail asynchronously if that passes, and that's fine
[02:16] <natefinch> axw: yeah, I figured, thanks.
[02:19] <mup> Bug #1501568 opened: TestRebootFromJujuRun Failed <ci> <intermittent-failure> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501568>
[02:20] <natefinch> heh, failing that test did reveal that the test code just panics if there's no error.... it calls Results[0].Error.Error() without checking if that first .Error is nil.
[02:23] <natefinch> arg.... of course precheck instance doesn't actually take a real instance.Placement...
[02:23] <natefinch> just some string that has to be in a magically correct format :/
[02:28] <mup> Bug #1501569 opened: MachineSuite failed <ci> <intermittent-failure> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501569>
[02:39] <beisner> o/ thumper
[02:41] <beisner> so the retry on the openstack provider destroy is better (46 bootstrap/destroy iterations successful vs. 9)
[02:41] <beisner> but then we hit a new one:  it tried to destroy twice, with a nil error:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/12629198/
[02:43] <beisner> (full loop output if interested:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/12629219/)
[02:59] <beisner> added timing stats to the bug, as well as that ^ info
[02:59] <thumper> beisner: hey, looking at paste now
[03:00] <beisner> thumper, kk.  see last bug comment too for min/max/avg timings observed.
[03:01] <thumper> hmm... so now what?
[03:03] <beisner> ha!
[03:03] <beisner> ok, so i found a secret
[03:03] <beisner> | 2d794379-3472-492b-9034-7c6d87727883 | juju-beis1-machine-0              | ERROR   | -          | NOSTATE     |
[03:03] <beisner> that turned out to be an exercise in how well it handles an error in the cloud
[03:04] <beisner> so, when the undercloud behaved, it looks like it works well (though 30s may still be pushing it)
[03:04] <beisner> and when the undercloud misbehaves, that unexpected nil thing happens.  i'd expect it to fail differently.
[03:04] <beisner> but basically, the instance never disappeared, instead, hit a resource issue.
[03:04] <beisner> and errored by nova-compute
[03:06] <thumper> hmm...
[03:06] <thumper> so nova errored out trying to terminate the instance?
[03:06] <beisner> no it errored trying to spawn it
[03:06] <thumper> ah
[03:06] <beisner> (neutron-api timed out as the undercloud was under fairly heavy load at that moment)
[03:06] <thumper> new bug plz :)
[03:07] <beisner> so, on the work done so far, suggestions:
[03:07] <thumper> beisner: I think I'm about to crusade on better retries of cloud based errors across the board
[03:07] <beisner> one iteration was 34s from 'terminate' to 'finished' in the juju destroy --debug output
[03:07] <beisner> so, an increased max_wait may be in order
[03:07] <beisner> 2nd suggestion:
[03:08] <beisner> that's a while to wait on apparently nothing
[03:08] <thumper> :-|
[03:08] <beisner> user feedback (at least in --debug) while iterating, would be good
[03:08]  * thumper nods
[03:09] <beisner> avg 7s, min 3s ... seem like reasonable normal/best cases
[03:10]  * thumper nods
[03:10] <thumper> I can land additional tweaks to 1.24/1.25
[03:10] <thumper> both have landed with the current fix I think
[03:10] <thumper> I'm currently poking something else :)
[03:11] <beisner> under load, ~30s seems like about as long as one should be expected to wait around on something to terminate.   but, as this shows, that may not be resilient with a production cloud under dynamic load changes.
[03:11] <thumper> changing our fslock implementation on linux/macos to use flock and only use the rename dir on windows
[03:11] <beisner> ++ for 1.24.x & 1.25  yes please
[03:12] <beisner> one of the roles of this ci is to always consume whatever is in ppa:juju/stable, and run that against the released and the dev versions of the openstack charms
[03:12] <beisner> plus, when we get the "stakeholders, please test proposed juju X" email, we flip a bit and run it all against that
[03:13] <thumper> beisner: ack
[03:13] <beisner> so, if i run on a fixed version, we'd loose that ability to flex
[03:13] <thumper> beisner: we'll try our best to look after you :)
[03:13] <beisner> ditto :)
[03:13] <beisner> or at least feed info to ya
[03:14] <thumper> :)
[03:14] <thumper> that's appreciated
[03:15] <lazypower> a thumper crusade :D i cant wait to read the commit stream on this one
[03:15] <thumper> heh
[03:16] <thumper> I'm getting pretty sick of Juju's inability to handle transient cloud errors
[03:16] <lazypower> I feel your pain
[03:16] <lazypower> thumper, have you seen how prominent they are on the public cloud space?
[03:17] <thumper> not really, but I can guess
[03:17] <beisner> thumper, thanks a ton.  plz lmk when/where i can get 1.24.x with the new goods ;-)
[03:17] <lazypower> http://reports.vapour.ws/cloud-health/trends
[03:17] <thumper> beisner: as in a released version of 1.24.x?
[03:18] <thumper> lazypower: why does that graph go back in time to the right
[03:18] <thumper> lazypower: that just looks weird
[03:18] <lazypower> I'm not sure really
[03:18] <thumper> lazypower: also, what does the red really mean?
[03:18] <lazypower> red means it encountered an error that we didn't handle and retry provisioning
[03:18] <beisner> so tldr from a non-juju-go-dev:   the opportunity for this race to occur has always been present (not waiting on secgroup delete before attempting to create another).   something got better/faster in 1.24.6, which removed just enough wait for a line to be crossed.  or at least that's how my brain has resolved it.  ;-)
[03:18] <lazypower> thats what i understand anyway. Not necessarily the exact science
[03:19] <wallyworld> axw: thanks for review, in this branch there's not yet any new series order of precedence stuff - the charm store repo does not yet return supported series
[03:19] <beisner> thumper, ah of course.  i'll notice that for sure.  thx once again.
[03:19]  * thumper nods
[03:19] <thumper> kk
[03:20] <axw> wallyworld: ah I see, I was wondering why that result was ignored. can you please add a TODO there
[03:21] <wallyworld> ok
[03:25] <wallyworld> axw: i've responded to some of the questions, working on updating some of the doc as requested
[03:25] <axw> wallyworld: thanks, looking
[04:10] <wallyworld> axw: so local repos. all charms are by convention/definition meant to be interpreted as single series only, because they are located in a directory named after the series. so if a charm author decides to modify the charm to declare supported series, we ignore it. if they want to have the charm be interpreted as multiseries, they move it or use the path syntax
[04:10] <wallyworld> so for now, all the repo related code ignore supported series so the system behaves as today
[04:11] <wallyworld> supported series will be used for charm store only once it supports it
[04:11] <wallyworld> and local repo is considered deprecated
[04:11] <axw> wallyworld: that's fine. when I wrote the comment I thought the default series precedence was implemented, since you had updated the doc
[04:12] <axw> wallyworld: I think the default-series code I pointed at needs to change when it's implemented, regardless of local/cs
[04:12] <axw> but I may be wrong. I don't know it well.
[04:12] <axw> (and it doesn't matter until it's implemented)
[04:16] <wallyworld_> damn, this kernel bug killing my networking is giving me the shits
[04:16] <axw> [12:11:58] <axw> wallyworld: that's fine. when I wrote the comment I thought the default series precedence was implemented, since you had updated the doc
[04:16] <axw> [12:12:29] <axw> wallyworld: I think the default-series code I pointed at needs to change when it's implemented, regardless of local/cs
[04:16] <axw> [12:12:41] <axw> but I may be wrong. I don't know it well.
[04:16] <axw> [12:12:54] <axw> (and it doesn't matter until it's implemented)
[04:16] <axw> wallyworld_: also, LGTM
[04:17] <wallyworld_> \o/
[04:17] <wallyworld_> ty
[04:17] <wallyworld_> i just need to get my charmrepo branch landed
[04:20] <axw> wallyworld_: if you have time, could you review some of my branches? master is blocked, but I'd like to back-port to 1.25 while it's still unblocked
[04:20] <wallyworld_> axw: yeah, was just about to do that
[04:21] <axw> wallyworld_: thanks
[04:49] <thumper> ah fark
[04:49] <thumper> I suppose I should have grepped first...
[04:50] <thumper> two hours down the drain attempting to change a base implementation only to find that people rely on existing behaviour...
[04:50] <thumper> poo
[04:50] <wallyworld_> axw: your reviews done, i'm afk for a bit
[04:50] <axw> wallyworld_: thanks
[05:13] <axw> waigani: the "move lastlogin and last connection to their own collections" upgrade step for 1.25 is in the master branch, but not in the 1.25 branch. intentional?
[08:20] <mup> Bug #1501637 opened: provider/ec2: "iops" should be per-GiB in EBS pool config <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501637>
[08:20] <mup> Bug #1501642 opened: provider/ec2: min/max EBS volume sizes are wrong for SSD/IOPS <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501642>
[08:30] <rogpeppe> wallyworld: reviewed https://github.com/juju/charmrepo/pull/32
[08:30] <wallyworld> ty
[08:33] <axw> wallyworld: would you agree with changing https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1501637 for 1.25?
[08:33] <mup> Bug #1501637: provider/ec2: "iops" should be per-GiB in EBS pool config <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501637>
[08:33] <axw> wallyworld: I mean, making the suggested change
[08:33] <wallyworld> rogpeppe: maybe we should just remove charm.Reference as you say, but in a followup if that's ok
[08:33] <rogpeppe> wallyworld: definitely - it's quite a big job
[08:34] <wallyworld> axw: yes, best to do it before release
[08:35] <axw> wallyworld: this demo prep has been enlightening ;)
[08:35] <wallyworld> i bet
[08:35] <wallyworld> dog food tastes awesome
[08:35] <axw> wallyworld: I got the benchmark GUI working before. I'll send you a link when I've tested these changes and got it up again
[08:36] <wallyworld> awesome
[09:03] <dooferlad> dimitern, voidspace: hangout!
[09:03] <voidspace> dooferlad: omw
[09:04] <dooferlad> fwereade: hangout?
[09:04] <fwereade> dooferlad, oops, ty
[09:04] <dimitern> jam, HO?
[10:02] <dooferlad> dimitern, frobware: hangout?
[10:11] <dimitern> dooferlad, I think I'll skip it today
[10:12] <dooferlad> dimitern: test for your demo passes :-) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12630924/
[10:13] <dooferlad> dimitern: the last four lines are the good bit!
[10:14] <axw> wallyworld: results are a little underwhelming, but here's the GUI: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/ (will be taking it down soon)
[10:14] <wallyworld> looking
[10:15] <axw> wallyworld: mysql-benchmark/2 is provisioned IOPS, mysql-benchmark/0 is SSD, mysql-benchmark/1 is magnetic
[10:15] <axw> wallyworld: (I have made the suggestion that the GUI show related unit info on the screen)
[10:16] <dimitern> dooferlad, awesome!
[10:17] <dimitern> dooferlad, and the logs look nice as well
[10:18] <axw> wallyworld: mysql-benchmark/2 is provisioned IOPS, mysql-benchmark/0 is SSD, mysql-benchmark/1 is magnetic
[10:18] <axw> wallyworld: (I have made the suggestion that the GUI show related unit info on the screen)
[10:18] <axw> (in case you got cut off before)
[10:19] <dimitern> dooferlad, I think we should add a scaling step - i.e. add-unit mysql and mediawiki and check they end up in the same spaces, but different subnets?
[10:19] <wallyworld> axw: too bad there aren't labels that can be set to show that detail on the summary
[10:19] <dooferlad> dimitern: already doing that :-)
[10:19] <dimitern> dooferlad, this will give us guarantee the AZ distribution works with spaces
[10:19] <wallyworld> yes i did get cut off again :-(
[10:19] <dimitern> dooferlad, great! cheers :)
[10:19] <dooferlad> dimitern: just got sidetracked with trying to access haproxy, which even though it is exposed isn't responding.
[10:20] <wallyworld> axw: with labels, it' impossible to easily see what beanchmark ran on what
[10:20] <axw> wallyworld: if I demo this, I'll deploy the benchmark charm once per mysql
[10:20] <axw> wallyworld: and give them useful names
[10:20] <wallyworld> sounds good, what cloud was it again?
[10:20] <axw> wallyworld: AWS
[10:20] <wallyworld> cool. can we do gce or azure as well?
[10:21] <axw> wallyworld: yes, can do
[10:22] <axw> wallyworld: we only do one disk type on each of them, so we'd be comparing multiple clouds rather than disk types
[10:23] <wallyworld> that's fine, just to show storage run on those platforms
[10:24] <axw> wallyworld: tearing it down now
[10:24] <wallyworld> ok
[10:24] <axw> wallyworld: if you're still working, another small one that will be helpful for the demo: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/3417
[10:25] <axw> if not, tomorrow
[10:25] <wallyworld> sure
[10:26] <wallyworld> axw: i already lgtm that one
[10:26] <wallyworld> you meant 2087?
[10:26] <axw> wallyworld: nope, http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2807/
[10:27] <wallyworld> yeah, was dyslexic
[10:30] <wallyworld> axw: lgtm, ty
[10:30] <axw> wallyworld: thanks
[10:48] <dimitern> dooferlad, voidspace, frobware, TheMue, I managed to pre-patch the gui charm so it can be deployed from a local repo; just get http://people.canonical.com/~dimitern/spaces-demo-local-repo.tar.bz2, extract it and use $ juju deploy --repository ./repo local:trusty/juju-gui --to 0
[11:05] <mup> Bug #1501709 opened: "juju deploy" does not validate volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501709>
[11:05] <mup> Bug #1501710 opened: worker/storageprovisioner: worker bounces upon finding invalid volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501710>
[11:08] <mup> Bug #1501709 changed: "juju deploy" does not validate volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501709>
[11:08] <mup> Bug #1501710 changed: worker/storageprovisioner: worker bounces upon finding invalid volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501710>
[11:11] <mup> Bug #1501709 opened: "juju deploy" does not validate volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501709>
[11:11] <mup> Bug #1501710 opened: worker/storageprovisioner: worker bounces upon finding invalid volume/filesystem params <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501710>
[11:31] <rogpeppe> would anyone be able to give this a review please? it's been up for review for more than a day now. http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2794/
[11:31] <rogpeppe> ericsnow, axw: ^
[14:24] <mup> Bug #1501786 opened: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[14:26] <ericsnow> potentially a *much* faster "go test": https://github.com/rsc/gt
[14:26] <ericsnow> thanks for pointing it out, natefinch!
[14:28] <TheMue> dimitern: quick question, on command line a subnet can be created and directly added to a space, also a space can be direct created with and without subnets. is it possible to create a subnet without adding it to a space?
[14:36] <mup> Bug #1501786 changed: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[14:37] <natefinch> gt is frigging amazing.  I can basically just always run go test over the entire repo and not pay the price of all the tests that can't possibly have changed
[14:40] <natefinch> ericsnow: btw, there's a -f flag to tell gt to force-rerun stuff
[14:42] <mup> Bug #1501786 opened: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[14:45] <mup> Bug #1501786 changed: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[14:48] <mup> Bug #1501786 opened: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[14:51] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: I see you're OCR; would you be able to do a review for me, by any chance? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2794/
[14:51] <rogpeppe> natefinch: is that russ's tool?
[14:51] <natefinch> rog yep
[14:52] <katco> rogpeppe: it has a ship it doesn't it?
[14:53] <rogpeppe> katco: i need a review from someone on juju-core
[14:53] <katco> rogpeppe: ahh ok
[14:53] <katco> rogpeppe: i'll tal
[14:53] <rogpeppe> katco: ta!
[14:53] <natefinch> rogpeppe: it's pretty great... it's even handy for our flaky tests, because you can cache the tests from when they pass ;)
[14:53] <rogpeppe> natefinch: ha
[14:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: my problem with it was that i was often changing something on which lots of things depended
[14:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: e.g. if you're working on the charm package, it doesn't really help much
[14:55] <natefinch> rogpeppe: right, it's useful for full-repo runs of juju/juju
[14:56] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I like it because it means I run full tests more often... and if I'm modifying something that a ton of stuff is using, at least I'm more aware of that fact.
[14:56] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah
[14:56] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i should try using it again
[14:57] <dimitern> TheMue, sorry, was in a call
[14:57] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i'd like someone to seriously look at speeding the tests up though. i'm not convinced that it requires wholesale refactoring.
[14:57] <TheMue> dimitern: no problem, found it
[14:57] <dimitern> TheMue, so a subnet without a space is forbidden by the model
[14:57] <TheMue> yep, seen it
[14:57] <TheMue> ;)
[14:58] <TheMue> dimitern: thx anyway
[14:58] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah, I think we guessed out that if we just reused cleared the db rather than restarting mongo that it would go faster
[14:59] <rogpeppe> natefinch: a lot of the time is spent dialing mongo. providing a way to make a State from a mongo session might help a lot
[15:00] <rogpeppe> natefinch: looking at the state tests, even when the test itself only take 0.01 seconds, the actual time taken is more like 0.25s - there's a quarter second overhead on every test
[15:00] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah, I think one thing that would help a lot is if gocheck's time output included test setup/teardown and if it could output suite times, to include setup/teardown
[15:00] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i suspect that if someone was given a week of time, they could make the tests run twice as fast.
[15:03] <natefinch> rogpeppe: that would seem to be a no brainer for someone to work on
[15:03] <rogpeppe> natefinch: +1
[15:11] <cherylj> perrito666: ping?
[15:11] <perrito666> cherylj: pong
[15:12] <perrito666> good afternoon
[15:12] <cherylj> perrito666: what's the story with https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/155 ?
[15:12] <cherylj> perrito666: was it in response to a bug?
[15:12] <cherylj> perrito666: good afternoon :)  Sorry to jump past the pleasantries :)
[15:13] <perrito666> cherylj: np, I assume that broke something else?
[15:13] <cherylj> perrito666: yeah bug 1501786
[15:13] <mup> Bug #1501786: juju cannot provision precise instances: need a repository as argument <blocker> <ci> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501786>
[15:14] <perrito666> mmpf, I presume something changed between versions of apt-add-repository then
[15:14] <perrito666> cherylj: its a bug found and fixed in place, when adding a ppa it would break by saying something similar
[15:14] <perrito666> well actually when adding anything at all
[15:14] <cherylj> on trusty?
[15:14] <perrito666> vivid
[15:14] <cherylj> ah
[15:16] <perrito666> cherylj: you can revert it, it breaks nothing in production
[15:16] <cherylj> perrito666: k, will do
[15:16] <perrito666> cherylj: Ill device a way to make that smarter
[15:17] <cherylj> perrito666: cool, thanks.  I'll get on the bug, then :)
[15:22] <katco> rogpeppe: lgtm
[15:22] <rogpeppe> katco: tvm!
[15:23] <katco> rogpeppe: sorry for the confusion
[15:23] <rogpeppe> katco: np
[15:23] <rogpeppe> katco: in general on our side we always require two reviews anyway, FWIW
[15:28] <dimitern> frobware, i'm back
[15:28] <frobware> dimitern, me too
[15:29] <dimitern> frobware, shall we use the same HO?
[15:29] <frobware> dimitern, ah... yes. off-by-1 for me... omw
[15:29] <dimitern> :)
[15:36] <beisner> mgz - are those openstack provider retry bits in the pkgs @ ppa:juju/devel ?
[15:36] <mgz> the ones from tim yesterday?
[15:37] <mgz> not yet.
[15:46] <beisner> mgz - ack.  before i go drop custom bins onto 23 slaves, do you know an eta of when that might land there?
[16:01] <katco> mgz: rackspace call is now if you're interested
[16:02] <mgz> katco: omw
[16:13] <cherylj> RB isn't picking up my PRs.  Can someone review https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/158 ?
[16:13] <cherylj> it's for the new blocker
[16:16] <perrito666> cherylj: ship it
[16:16] <cherylj> perrito666: thanks!
[16:44] <rogpeppe> katco: i wonder if you might want to take a look at this one - very similar to the previous one (but only test code this time) so should be quick: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2812/
[16:49] <natefinch> katco: btw, all tests are passing on my branch, just adding a few more to cover things I realized I missed... but adding tests is easy, so it'll be ready for a PR in a bit.
[16:52] <katco> natefinch: awesome!
[17:00] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: any chance of a review? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2812/
[17:01] <ericsnow> rogpeppe: katco has offered to handle at least some of the reviewing for me today
[17:01] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: ok, cool
[17:01] <ericsnow> katco: would you mind taking a look at this one?
[17:01] <katco> ericsnow: rogpeppe: res, plan to
[17:01] <katco> yes
[17:01] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: i already had one review of katco; maybe asking for two in a day is pushing it :)
[17:01] <rogpeppe> s/of/off/
[17:01] <rogpeppe> katco: ta!
[17:02] <ericsnow> rogpeppe: we're heads-down on some pre-Seattle work :)
[17:02] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: me too :)
[17:02] <rogpeppe> ericsnow: (that's what this is)
[17:02] <ericsnow> rogpeppe: surprise, surprise lol
[17:07] <cmars> hey rogpeppe i'll take a look
[17:07] <rogpeppe> cmars: ta!
[17:07] <rogpeppe> cmars: i'd much appreciate your thoughts anyway as you know the territory...
[17:45] <cherylj> Can I get another review?  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2813/
[17:45] <cherylj> again, for the blocker
[17:51] <mgz> cherylj: juju code change looks fine to me, explain the utils revert?
[17:51] <mgz> will it actually break something on vivid going back to the previous quoting?
[17:52] <cherylj> mgz: no, I tested that
[17:52] <mgz> cherylj: okay, lgtm
[18:57] <katco> natefinch: running a little late
[18:58] <natefinch> katco: ok, just working on the PR for my branch
[18:58] <katco> natefinch: finish that up and ping me
[18:59] <natefinch> katco: ok
[19:06] <jcastro> alexisb: wow, creepy. Everyone in eco is like, happy with 1.25 other than the bugs filed already
[19:06] <jcastro> mbruzek actually demo'ed at nagios conf with 1.25
[19:06] <jcastro> aisrael has one bug he needs to reproduce before filing a bug
[19:07] <jcastro> but overall I got thumbs up from everyone in our daily calls
[19:07] <aisrael> jcastro: two possible bugs
[19:07] <aisrael> I'll get that done tomorrow
[19:15] <natefinch> katco: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2814/
[19:15] <katco> natefinch: rock tal
[19:22] <natefinch> katco: sorry it's big.
[19:22] <natefinch> katco: oops, crap, I see some code I left commented out
[19:23] <cherylj> wwitzel3!  I got virtual MAAS working without sacrificing a chicken!
[19:23] <katco> natefinch: no worries, i can review while you fix :)
[19:23] <wwitzel3> cherylj: yeah, that part isn't actually required, I should probably stop doing it
[19:23] <cherylj> wwitzel3: haha.  Thanks for the links
[19:24] <wwitzel3> cherylj: np, glad it worked
[19:48] <natefinch> katco: gah, the merge with a more up to date master broke some tests... looking into them now.  I'm sure it's more of the same junk
[19:49] <katco> natefinch: k, i'll keep with the review
[19:55] <natefinch> katco: haha, no it was that code I had commented out... it actually should have been deleted, not uncommented.  Oops.
[19:55] <katco> natefinch: fortunate :)
[20:02] <katco> ericsnow: wwitzel3: natefinch: want to meet up?
[20:02] <wwitzel3> katco: sure
[20:02] <ericsnow> katco: sure
[20:02] <natefinch> katco: yep
[20:03] <natefinch> is there any way to stop systemd from spamming every single terminal I have?
[20:04] <perrito666> natefinch: yes, upgrade to mongo 3 ;)
[20:21] <ericsnow> ping
[20:21] <ericsnow> pong
[20:21] <natefinch> pong
[20:22] <ericsnow> thumper: ping
[20:22] <thumper> ericsnow: hey, otp just now
[20:23] <katco> thumper: join moonstone whenever you're ready? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/moonstone?authuser=1
[20:27] <katco> rick_h_: ping
[22:01] <voidspace> ericsnow: ping
[22:01] <ericsnow> voidspace: hey :)
[22:02] <voidspace> ericsnow: hi
[22:02] <voidspace> ericsnow: you're OCR today I believe :-)
[22:02] <voidspace> if you have a chance:
[22:02] <voidspace> http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2816/
[22:02] <voidspace> ericsnow: you got over jetlag yet?
[22:02] <ericsnow> voidspace: I'll take a look
[22:02] <ericsnow> voidspace: just barely
[22:03] <ericsnow> voidspace: got hit by an awful sinus infection
[22:03] <ericsnow> voidspace: feeling better and my body is finally back on track
[22:03] <voidspace> ericsnow: :-(
[22:03] <voidspace> good
[22:17] <ericsnow> voidspace: LGTM
[22:18] <voidspace> ericsnow: thanks
[22:18] <voidspace> ericsnow: I wonder if 1.25 is blocked
[22:18] <voidspace> master has been blocked for days
[22:18] <ericsnow> voidspace: good luck :/
[22:18] <voidspace> :-)
[22:46] <voidspace> ericsnow: did you work on storage?
[22:46] <ericsnow> voidspace: not at all
[22:46] <voidspace> heh, can't blame you
[22:47] <voidspace> can't destroy an environment (without force) because a volume I didn't create doesn't exist
[22:47] <voidspace> it's a shared amazon account, so I think it's getting confused by other things in the account that it shouldn't be concerned with
[22:48] <voidspace> ERROR environment destruction failed: destroying storage: destroying volumes: querying volume: The volume 'vol-45ac83a7' does not exist. (InvalidVolume.NotFound), destroying "vol-cbc0ce22": The volume 'vol-cbc0ce22' does not exist. (InvalidVolume.NotFound)
[22:52] <voidspace> ah well, I'll look into it tomorrow
[22:52] <voidspace> ericsnow: g'night
[22:52] <ericsnow> voidspace: have a good one
[23:01] <axw> rogpeppe: sorry, I ignored it because it had a shipit already
[23:28] <perrito666> my kingdom for a big machine where to compile stuff


[18:46] <KarielG0> hello everyone
[18:51] <wreckingBaller> Evening UBRRrr-Ubnuntu-Users 's !
[18:51] <wreckingBaller> **Ubbuntu
[18:51] <macMill> hi
[18:51] <wreckingBaller> **Ubuntu .. damn fat fingers .. :(
[18:51] <macMill> can anyone hear me?
[18:51] <wreckingBaller> turn on your voice ..
[18:52] <macMill> ok, you get me
[18:53] <wreckingBaller> Have a hug : http://youtu.be/W6DmHGYy_xk?t=2m44s  ALOHA everybody !
[18:54] <wreckingBaller> Whooopsie : http://youtu.be/W6DmHGYy_xk?t=3s
[18:55] <slavo> howdy !
[18:57] <samertm_> hey all :D
[18:58] <wreckingBaller> we can hear you Jono.
[18:59] <samertm_> we can see you
[18:59] <KarielG0> hey Jono
[18:59] <KarielG0> I can see you
[18:59] <macMill> I can c u
[18:59] <howefield> for better or worse, you are seen :)
[18:59] <theBest> I can see you too!
[18:59] <slavo> nice red T-shirt
[19:00] <samertm_> what's the viewer count?
[19:00] <KarielG0> we don't need social media, we remember about your stream <3
[19:00] <dick_turpin> Oh god my eyes
[19:01] <wreckingBaller> KarielG0, troo , I saw the tweet .
[19:01] <macMill> funny shirt
[19:01] <KarielG0> the stream is like 4 minutes late
[19:02] <wreckingBaller> El Tweet I saw 10 mins ago : https://twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir/status/428237398682898433
[19:02] <KarielG0> okay, fine now ;)
[19:02] <shikaki> Can see you!!
[19:05] <micah2> Nice shirt, Jono!
[19:05] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] I heard that Canonical is planning to implement "click" applications so something like AppStore is using instead of repos - how is that going on?
[19:06] <DS_McGuire> QUESTION: Anti aliased corners in Ubuntu 14.04, official or not?
[19:06] <wreckingBaller> qUESTION: Earlier this week around the Snowden shit-storm , I saw a tweet conversation that you had with Laura about Princesses. [Note : If this is confidential = please , then ignore] . However, this is obviously a very serious subject to be talking about with all of the confirmed bachelors that we hang -out with . [ hehe ] .. Can you enlighten us on the generality of that discussion, earlier this week .
[19:06] <Rapha_> Will there be a whatsappclient for ubuntuphone in the next mounth?
[19:06] <theBest> QUESTION: Your goal is that one has only one device with all apps and data on it. Most people have two or more devices which are (will be) capable of running Ubuntu. How well will those devices work together in the future if running the same Ubuntu when connected e.g. over USB, LAN or WLAN? What about e.g. streaming of apps to different devices?
[19:06] <iBotPeaches> QUESTION: How is the mir roadmap coming along?
[19:07] <k1l_> QUESTION: can you tell more about the reasons for valve to switch to debian with steamOS quite late before release?
[19:07] <samertm_> QUESTION: What support does Canonical have for university linux user groups? We're huge fans of Ubuntu at George Mason University here in the States and we're prepping for a 14.04 installfest.
[19:07] <slavo> QUESTION: will you be present at MWC Barcelona ?
[19:07] <number22> QUESTION: whats your opinion about piracy, is it effects all industries same? (music, movies, software etc.
[19:07] <d0od> QUESTION: Canonical will be at MWC later this month, can you reveal anything about what you plan to be up to?
[19:09] <macMill> QUESTION: Is
[19:09] <wreckingBaller> Question Update .. It wasn't about Princesses it was about " Sofia The First and Jake And The Neverland Pirates "  https://twitter.com/lauracowen/status/427847871892041728
[19:10] <delsa> hi to all
[19:10] <mike-dev> QUESTION: Will Unity 8 and Mir run on a Raspberry Pi?
[19:11] <plma> [QUESTION] (sorry for my english) Hi jono, in your personal opnion about the debate between upstart and systemd in the debian community? Do you think that upstart is technically better than systemd ? (apart from the portability argument, because it's unkown if any of the projects is going to be portable) . Thank you
[19:11] <d0od> QUESTION: With Google today releasing new developer tools for bringing Chrome Apps (formerly known as 'packaged apps') to Android and iOS. What are Canonical doing to support HTML5 app devs on Ubuntu Touch?
[19:11] <KarielG0> How will Canonical fight with huge corporations? They seriously slow down many small and non-profit developers, also they make their patent wars (RedHat is fighting with stupid patent cases).
[19:11] <KarielG0> Can you play any Metallica's song?
[19:12] <macMill> QUESTION: Is Ubuntu going to develope and use its own API on top of MIR insteam of QT/QML?
[19:13] <dick_turpin> Will I have to be in China to buy this phone?
[19:13] <johnnybegood> QUESTION: Does Ubuntu touch "maps" works offline?
[19:13] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] With Click store, will I be able to have up to dated programs even on like LTS releases? I hate the fact that I need to use f. ex. Libre Office 3 or play with PPA's which newbie users aren't familiar with
[19:13] <halfmast> Question: What's going on with the clock app?
[19:14] <samertm_> QUESTION: How does the QML-based Unity compare to the C++ Unity performance wise?
[19:15] <xedi> QUESTION: Will it be possible to use clickpages in other distributions? I assume Ubuntu flavors will use it but how complicated would it be on non-Ubuntu based distros?
[19:15] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] what is that device next to your magic mouse?
[19:19] <B3rn475> hello
[19:19] <marlinc> QUESTION: Did you read my email about Canonical and the business support stuff?
[19:20] <wreckingBaller> marlic: Do you have a Web reference for that ?
[19:21] <thumper> QUESTION: is there any plan to have the ubuntu phone / tablet run android apps?
[19:22] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] What's the goal of ubuntu one except the synchronization? how do you want people to use it? for example on MEGA you can get 50GB free vs One 5GB,
[19:23] <jono> jonobacon.org/creative
[19:23] <Levan> [QUESTION] Who would win in a fight Stalin or Genghis Khan
[19:24] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] few minutes ago you said that we'll be able to buy Ubuntu handsets on 2014, on OMG: Ubuntu they wrote that you said that probably not in 2014 and rather in 2015, what's your official statement?
[19:25] <d0od> KarielG0: No we didn't, we said that he thought (!) that handsets from major OEMs wouldn't arrive until 2015, but that smaller OEMs would arrive in 2014.
[19:25] <johnnybegood> Hope the phone is for 2014. Cannot wait another year!
[19:25] <wreckingBaller> QUESTION:Jono    ,can you put Hose's Ubuntu name on launchpad -  or the tweet feed that he/she has for the University guys in this ChatRoom later , for the guys at George-mason University for their Uber Install. fest ? Brilliant work guys !
[19:25] <KarielG0> thx d0od
[19:26] <johnnybegood> cool d0od.
[19:26] <thumper> d0od: you know jono isn't going to give you special info here :)
[19:26] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] on which markets will Ubuntu Phone go for? Android is rather going for all, iOS for high end, Sailfish for mid end and Firefox OS for low end.
[19:26] <stefanocorona12> I hear + See you!
[19:28] <B3rn475> QUESTION: Talking about Ubuntu on TVs. Are there any news about that?
[19:28] <slavo> QUESTION: what about your barbecue project ?
[19:29] <wreckingBaller> mike-dev, Talk to AlanBell in this chatroom or #ubuntu-uk .. he's doing that on a Raspberry Pi Althou, it's a slow one .. you can always talk to Alan Pope on Google Plus or again in the #ubuntu-uk IRChatrooom.
[19:29] <micah2> QUESTION: Is canonical working on expanding the library of music for sale on Ubuntu One? There are some albums that I'd like to buy that aren't available from Ubuntu One, I'd like to throw my dollars at canonical rather than Amazon.
[19:30] <Levan> [QUESTION] Do you think England Football team get passed the group stage ?? and why do they always lose ?  1966 does not count.
[19:31] <raven> QUESTION: Where do you see Ubuntu with all its flavors and devices in 5 or 10 years? What features will make it unique?
[19:33] <mike-dev> wreckingBaller: thanks for the info.
[19:33] <stefanocorona12> QUESTION: Does everyone in Canonical use Unity by requirement? --Or-- Do they have choice of flavour on their desktop?
[19:35] <KarielG0> [QUESTION] could you please play a Metallica's song at the end? ;)
[19:36] <theBest> QUESTION: What do you think of  Windows 8 in terms of usability?
[19:36] <xedi> Click Packages, sorry for the typo
[19:36] <B3rn475> QUESTION: Talking about Ubuntu for Tablets. When Unity 8 will come out on desktop will it be available even on Tablet too? I would really like to walk with my Nexus 10 using the touch version and when i come home dock it (it has HDMI) and work on it with the desktop version.
[19:37] <wreckingBaller> QUESTION  No.3 (I'm on a Roll   !!!!  ): Would it be OK if someone in my gnu Linux User Group would put a projekt on the , Bounty-source .com database  as I know if * WE cannot do all the coding , then , of-course others can take Up the slack and we would be good at promoting that and alleviating the Qt -not -yet-available-App situation on Ubuntu Touch .. Note I will not do this myself , but I know someone who CAN .my two bits . yur thought
[19:37] <wreckingBaller>  ?
[19:38] <Lost34> good aft. jone
[19:39] <callisto14> QUESTION: Will you be able to run most of the programs available for the desktop ubuntu version on ubuntu touch? Like LibreOffice, Gimp, Eclipse etc..
[19:39] <wreckingBaller> mike-dev,  I think they will go with Gnome shell or XFCE. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu
[19:40] <obounaim> [QUESTION} which phone do you own currently?
[19:40] <wreckingBaller> mike-dev, But they will need a 'wallpaper' if you wanna try-out on flickr , or summit :) http://xfce-look.org/
[19:41] <wreckingBaller> QUESTION UPDATE (of question 3) = that was for the UBUNTU ADVOCATE package  , sorry ran outta room .
[19:45] <Levan> if he is there where is he hiding ??
[19:45] <Levan> Is he hiding behind the guitar ??
[19:48] <KuCZik> What is your personal opinion about WINE?
[19:48] <KuCZik> QUESTION: What is your personal opinion about WINE?
[19:50] <longviewbits> QUESTION: What's the deal with the "Technical Support" positions requiring Mandarin? That eliminates a lot of folks. :/
[19:52] <wreckingBaller> QUESTION: Have you changed your Grumpy Cat Wallpaper on your Ubuntu Desktop to something new , I really liked that : Could you do a "new Monthly reddit wallpaper of your desktop" as a feature of the weekly  Jono Bacon Q&A so we can all love cats & Reddit ???
[19:52] <chaskes> yes guitar
[19:52] <B3rn475> GUITAR YES
[19:52] <raven> YES GUITAR
[19:52] <k1l_> yes, guitar at the end :)
[19:52] <wreckingBaller> yes guitar , but with thunder !!
[19:52] <KarielG0> YES GUITAR
[19:53] <Levan> [Question]  if we will be getting ubuntu phones/phone in 2014, what quarter roughly??
[19:53] <plma> yes guitar :)
[19:53] <Lost34> Q: Jono, how many devs are now working in ubuntu phone apps?...more or less, sorry if this quest, is repeated
[19:53] <Levan> I vote pie democracy: I can !!!!!
[19:54] <samertm_> yes guitar :D
[19:55] <Levan> I want gimp on my phone
[19:56] <longviewbits> btw... YES GUITAR
[19:56] <Levan> [QUESTION] What is your personal opinion on Vodka, WINE is good but is Vodka good ??
[19:56] <shikaki> YES Guitar!!!
[19:58] <KarielG0> I prefer acoustic ;)
[19:58] <osfast> i use the ubuntu desktop nou for a qouple a years it has motivated me to learn programming , recenty i started hosting a minceraft server witch is teaching me a lot, i want to thank you for helping me in my life in this way
[19:59] <k1l_> QUESTION: how much guitar practise hours do you do in a week?
[19:59] <wreckingBaller> Go Jono the bacon, Guitar Whipster !
[20:01] <KarielG0> if somebody's curious - first it was Master of Puppets and now Nothing Else matters
[20:01] <KarielG0> Disposable Heroes - not sure
[20:02] <KarielG0> thx Bacon man ;)
[20:02] <adi__> QUESTION: Will Unity 8 for desktop look the same as now(launcher-left+panel-top)?
[20:03] <samertm_> impressive!
[20:04] <wreckingBaller> Aargh , they're leaving me to fight Fedora a-lone !! AAAAAaaaargh .
[20:04] <wreckingBaller> Bye y 'all .
[20:25] <stefanocorona12> QUESTION: what brand is that guitar?
[20:39] <roy_> Ola !
[20:50] <roy____> Ola !