[03:39] <achiang> is anyone about that understands qemu-debootstrap? i'm trying to understand the intent of the escape() function and the first sed expression is hurting my brain
[03:44] <pcacjr> achiang: echo "$*" | sed "s/'/'\"'\"'/g; s/.*/'&'/  (is this one ?)
[03:44] <achiang> pcacjr: yeah, i'm trying to figure out what that function is trying to protect against
[03:45] <pcacjr> achiang: weird, maybe someone else can help us ;-)
[03:46] <achiang> heh
[03:51] <pcacjr> achiang: hm, it seems to change single quotes to double ones (or otherwise)
[03:52] <achiang> pcacjr: maybe. why are there 3 single quotes in the 2nd part of the expression: '\"'\"'
[03:53] <pcacjr> achiang: hm, indeed
[03:55] <achiang> maybe this explains the intent http://backreference.org/2009/12/09/using-shell-variables-in-sed/
[03:55] <achiang> but i still don't understand the expression
[03:56] <pcacjr> achiang: from ' ' to '" "' ?
[03:56] <pcacjr> ah, i give up :-)
[03:57] <achiang> yeah, probably it's a form of this: http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html#toc-uh-22
[04:03] <pcacjr> achiang: ok, '" "' avoids you having problem with space as an argument
[04:04] <achiang> pcacjr: nod, that's what i think
[04:05] <pcacjr> achiang: so, echo $* will print all those arguments, then it'll put the '" "' on each one of them...
[04:05] <achiang> pcacjr: ok, i can believe that. :) thanks
[04:05] <pcacjr> achiang: np, we got it! ;-)
[04:06] <achiang> pcacjr: more you than me. ;)
[04:06] <pcacjr> heh
[14:23] <voipster3> hi
[14:23] <voipster3> anyone have problems with update-apt-xapi using loads of cpu?
[14:47] <hrw> shit. again got hit by broken initrd in natty ;(
[14:47] <hrw> will have to build panda kernel which work without initrd ;D
[14:50] <ogra_ac> whats broken ?
[14:50] <hrw> ogra_ac: http://hrw.pastebin.com/drSncpRP
[14:53] <hrw> if I use kernel+initrd from maverick then it boots
[15:00] <ogra_ac> hrw, ugh, what made you create that mem arg on the cmdline ? that cant work
[15:01] <hrw> ogra_ac: it does
[15:01] <hrw> ogra_ac: I use panda headless for building packages
[15:01] <hrw> and having 1GB instead of ~600MB is difference
[15:03] <ogra_ac> hrw, doesnt matter
[15:03] <ogra_ac> you need to define proper memor regions
[15:03] <ogra_ac> see the maverick image cmdline
[15:03] <ogra_ac> there are two mem args in it
[15:03] <ogra_ac> also you can use the full 1G only on a certain set of boards
[15:03] <ogra_ac> i didnt see boot failures due to it only massive build failures though
[15:03] <ogra_ac> but in any case you need the two mem args
[15:05] <hrw> ogra_ac: define 'certain set of boards'?
[15:05] <devilhorns> ogra_ac, !!!!!!   Spent a week with the in-laws (should be outlaws) on a cruise.
[15:28] <devilhorns> ahh cool :) Where did you go ?
[15:28] <GrueMaster> Key West, Cozumel, and Costa Maya.
[15:28] <devilhorns> oh wow
[15:28] <devilhorns> that had to be nice
[15:29] <GrueMaster> I'm writing about it in my facebook notes.
[15:29] <GrueMaster> It was interesting and I would do it again, sans relatives.
[15:29] <devilhorns> hahaha
[15:29] <devilhorns> that's always the case tho :)
[15:30] <GrueMaster> A shirt I bought in Casa Maya sums them up:  "The good, the bad, and the stupid."
[15:30] <devilhorns> lmfao
[15:31] <devilhorns> GrueMaster, well, at least you had a vacation and a chance to relax (somewhat) :)
[15:31] <GrueMaster> The real problem is that I felt like I was tagging along on my wife's vacation, not that we were vacationing together.
[15:31] <devilhorns> ahh :/
[15:32] <GrueMaster> And having knee issues the whole time didn't help at all.
[15:32] <devilhorns> I'm sure it didn't ... not on a boat :)
[15:32] <GrueMaster> The boat wasn't the problem.
[15:33] <GrueMaster> Just a lot of walking on a knee that constantly threatened to give out.
[15:33] <devilhorns> ahhh
[15:33] <devilhorns> I thought it would be the rocking motion of the boat
[15:33] <GrueMaster> But nightly simmering sessions in the hot tub with a long island iced tea helped a lot.
[15:34] <GrueMaster> Boat hardly rocked at all.
[15:34] <devilhorns> hahaha yea, hottubs rock ! :)
[15:34] <GrueMaster> It felt more like it was sliding side to side.
[15:34] <devilhorns> lol
[15:35] <GrueMaster> Although one night it was moving quite a bit as the pool on the top deck was sloshing about.
[15:35] <GrueMaster> It was interesting floating on my back in the pool while it was sloshing about.  Felt like I was in a tidal pool.
[15:35] <devilhorns> hahaha
[15:53] <devilhorns> GrueMaster, been trying to catch up w/ ogra this past week or so, but he seems to be remaining elusive :( guess things are a bit hectic around there ... with the conference and all
[15:53] <GrueMaster> Yea, I've noticed.
[15:58] <devilhorns> oh well, I'll try to catch him again tomorrow
[15:59] <GrueMaster> Not sure, but he may be flying home tomorrow.
[15:59] <devilhorns> ahh ok
[15:59] <devilhorns> maybe I'll wait a day or so then
[15:59] <GrueMaster> He should be back to his full ogra-ish self Monday, though.
[15:59] <devilhorns> lol ok, that sounds good :)
[16:00] <devilhorns> it's not an emergency or anything. Just trying to get some input as to if I should continue w/ the unity-efl stuff or what
[16:13] <GrueMaster> That I can't tell you.  I don't have a complete picture yet for this cycle myself.  Just that I will be working hard.  :P
[16:18] <Anssi_> Hi, I installed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall on Beagleboard. It should ask for new information, but it does not. It goes directly to login and I don not know working login/passwd. Any ideas? Is there a bug in the demo image or do you know working login/passwd?
[16:19] <GrueMaster> It should launch oem-install which is a gui app that gathers user info, timezone, and locale data.
[16:20] <GrueMaster> Did it run through the rootfs resize?
[16:20] <Anssi_> I used ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap.img.gz from
[16:20] <Anssi_> It just booted in about 30 seconds and went to directly login
[16:20] <Anssi_> I did not see any note about rootfs resize
[16:21] <GrueMaster> Did you make any modifications to the image?  It should show a console screen indicating that it is resizing / and then it does a few system tweeks (triggering oem-install is one) before rebooting.
[16:22] <Anssi_> I did not do any modification to the image. I just downloaded it and decompressed to SD card.
[16:23] <GrueMaster> Using the zcat method?  If so, try gunziping the image then use "dd bs=4M if=<image file> of=<path to sd>".  I've seen some issues occasionally with the zcat method.
[16:23] <Anssi_> Yes I used zcat
[16:24] <Anssi_> Ok, I'll try that. I'll inform soon, how that works. If it works, mayby the webpage could also be updated.
[16:24] <GrueMaster> If that works better for you, I'll update the wiki,
[16:43] <Anssi_> Same thing :( I goes directly to login screen. At the beginning there is cursor shortly in the upper corner and then it goes to login. Nothing like "resizing" is not shown.
[16:45] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  Is this a beagle C4 or beagleXM?
[16:46] <Anssi_> I think mine is C3
[16:46] <GrueMaster> Should still work.  Do you have a kernel in nand?
[16:46] <Anssi_> Is there some way to "deep format" the SD card?
[16:47] <GrueMaster> Yes, dd bs=4M if=/dev/zero of=<sd card>
[16:47] <GrueMaster> Then reflash it.
[16:47] <Anssi_> I don't remember. It has been several month since I have used the beagle board last time..
[16:47] <GrueMaster> Do you have a serial console hooked up?
[16:48] <Anssi_> Not currently.
[16:48] <topfs2> zcat didn't work for me, dd did perfectly
[16:48] <GrueMaster> It is highly probable that it is booting from nand, which would bypass the initialization on the image.
[16:49] <Anssi_> I pressed user button, when resetting.. So it should boot from SD
[16:49] <GrueMaster> Even if you hold the user1 button while reseting to load the boot loader & u-boot.bin from SD, it still uses the nand environment.
[16:50] <GrueMaster> Very odd, but that is the behavior.
[16:50] <Anssi_> Ok, how to disable the nand environment?
[16:50] <hrw> you can avoid it using u-boot without nand support
[16:50] <GrueMaster> You need to have a serial console hooked up to load the boot script from sd.
[16:54] <Anssi_> So I should use following script? (copied from wiki) setenv bootcmd 'mmc init;fatload mmc 0 0x82000000 boot.scr;source 0x82000000'; setenv autostart yes; saveenv; boot
[16:54] <GrueMaster> yes
[16:55] <Anssi_> Ok, I'll have to set up serial console and fix the bootcmd. To be true there might be almost anything in NAND settings, since it was tuned quite a lot last winter..
[16:56] <GrueMaster> I'll have to fire mine up to get the env I have.  Essentially, my environment looks for boot.scr on SD, and falls back to nand on fail.
[16:57] <GrueMaster> Great for switching between Lucid & Maverick.
[16:58] <GrueMaster> btw:  I updated the wiki to add dd instructions for people that have problems with zcat.
[16:59] <GrueMaster> I'll update it again with bootenv changes for switching between nand booting & SD booting.
[17:11] <Anssi_> Ok, I found my problem! My system is set up as "fatload mmc 0 82000000 uImage" So it loads kernel directly and does not enter the script? If I understand correctly..
[17:13] <GrueMaster> Yea, that would do it.
[17:19] <Anssi_> Now it seems to be doing resizing. Thank you very much for helping me out. I'll probably buy also pandaboard, if beagle seems too slow.. Do you have any idea when Digikey will start shipping pandas out?
[17:20] <GrueMaster> I thought they were.  I do know that maverick on beagle (pre XM) is kind of painful due to low memory.
[17:22] <GrueMaster> And I haven't had a chance to see if the netboot image works (it isn't officially supported).
[21:29] <hrw|gone> argh...
[21:29] <hrw|gone> ~kill natty initrds


[08:06] <mlankhorst> why is all of *-lts-trusty still in -proposed?
[08:21] <apw> that block of updates is (i believe) prerequisite for the EOL messaging for lts backports
[08:24] <mlankhorst> yeah
[11:06] <mlankhorst> cjwatson: ? :P
[11:07] <mlankhorst> could you promote those packages please? urgently needed now
[11:09] <cjwatson> er, let me see
[11:14] <cjwatson> mlankhorst: OK, promoting now, hopefully I got them all
[11:29] <mvo> is there a chance that someone looks at the preicse-proposed uploads for update-manager/update-notifier? its important for the HardwareEnablement
[11:34] <mlankhorst> thanks
[12:04] <mlankhorst> cjwatson: looks good, i think you missed libdrm from saucy though (for updating from precise to saucy)
[12:08] <cjwatson> You didn't tell me about that :)
[12:09] <cjwatson> Copied now
[12:09] <mlankhorst> ty
[12:20] <Laney> I forgot -v in the first one of those
[12:50] <cjwatson> w/g 24
[12:50] <cjwatson> sorry
[12:52] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: would be awesome if you could reply to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2014-June/002925.html
[12:52] <shadeslayer> so we can move forward with the ISO stuff
[14:24] <Laney> Would somebody please see what they think of Gunnar's licensing claims in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1314402 ?
[14:25] <rbasak> Laney: I did wonder about that. It seems to be quite common to me that upstream don't have their ducks in a row and then want to fix the licence when distributions want it - not just for this project.
[14:26] <rbasak> So I wondered to what level Debian ftpmasters or Ubuntu needs it. Sufficient for upstream just to claim it, or should distributions be auditing upstream changes to make sure that all previous contributors accept a licence change (or disambiguation if no previous licence was explicit)
[14:26] <ogasawara> When someone has a chance, could we get update-notifier and update-manager approved in the queue for Precise?
[14:27] <ogasawara> mvo and I would appreciate it so that we can begin advanced HWE stack EOL notifications
[14:27] <Laney> rbasak: Yes it's definitely fairly common that upstream hasn't thought through / understood licensing stuff until one of the distros comes along.
[14:27] <Laney> It's one of the values that distros bring
[14:28] <rbasak> Definitely. But if there's previous ambiguity, and upstream fixes it on request, then should distributions require an audit on that change to make sure that the licence change was authorised by all copyright holders?
[14:29] <rbasak> Because if so, then some upstreams may forever be in limbo.
[14:30] <rbasak> And if that becomes the majority of unpackaged new software, then that's a problem.
[14:30] <Laney> We trust what they say
[14:30] <Laney> In this case we know some more about the history though
[14:39] <LocutusOfBorg1> argh
[14:39] <LocutusOfBorg1> flex depends from cm-super-minimal
[14:39] <LocutusOfBorg1> and cm-super-minimal is in universe
[14:39] <LocutusOfBorg1> :(
[14:40] <LocutusOfBorg1> won't build on i386
[14:40] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cm-super/+bug/1328509
[14:40] <Laney> It can be promoted
[14:41] <infinity> Laney: Promoting.
[14:41] <Laney> Ta
[14:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks
[15:22] <LocutusOfBorg1> infinity, will this build be automatically restarted? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flex/2.5.39-8/+build/6118522
[15:24] <infinity> Yes.
[16:35] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks infinity now it is built ;)


[00:00] <beuno> tuxxy__, are you using hte email addresses registered in Launchpad?
[00:00] <beuno> barry, are you around?
[00:00] <tuxxy__> yes im using the correct ones, I receive all information just cannot send out information
[00:01] <tuxxy__> all the other mailing lists are fine, just the one I own heh
[00:01] <Rinchen> tuxxy__, what's your team name again?
[00:01] <Rinchen> ~64-bit ?
[00:01] <tuxxy__> https://lists.launchpad.net/64-bit/
[00:01] <tuxxy__> my mail list is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:02] <Rinchen> k
[00:02] <Rinchen> looking at your settings now
[00:02] <Rinchen> ok tuxxy__, as far as I can see, your team settings and personal settings appear correct.
[00:03] <Rinchen> I've asked someone to look at the mailing list machine just in case something is awry
[00:03] <Rinchen> our mailing list expert has left for the day so I may need you to file a question with the issue
[00:03] <Rinchen> note that you won't receive copies of the email you send, but it should show up in the log
[00:03] <Rinchen> (because you're on gmail)
[00:04] <tuxxy__> ok no problem, the mailing list originally got rejected but then activated once the bug 237210 got fixed
[00:05] <tuxxy__> its been active for a few days now and my e-mails dont show up in log even if i send it from an e-mail account not associated with launchpad
[00:05] <tuxxy__> I must have sent 15 now heh
[00:07] <Rinchen> ok
[00:07] <Rinchen> I just sent a test email
[00:07] <Rinchen> and it arrived
[00:07] <tuxxy__> yep it worked
[00:07] <tuxxy__> yes, everyones does, except mine for some reason
[00:08] <Rinchen> it just goes into a blackhole?  no bounce msg?
[00:08] <tuxxy__> nothing
[00:08] <tuxxy__> like it has been successful but then my members dont receive it and also its doesnt appear in logs
[00:09] <Rinchen> k
[00:09] <Rinchen> That sort of suggests to me that it is held for moderation
[00:09] <Rinchen> and mthaddon just found an issue that, on the surface, appears to be related
[00:09] <tuxxy__> no, its not moderated
[00:09] <tuxxy__> and if i do click the moderate link no msgs appear
[00:10] <Rinchen> and they won't
[00:10] <tuxxy__> who is moderating it then heh
[00:10] <Rinchen> as I understand it, we intercept inbound msgs and if we see they need to be moderated, they get put in the queue.
[00:11] <Rinchen> it appears the process which check those and puts them in the queue might not be working
[00:11] <tuxxy__> hmm well its been 2 or 3 days now, also why are mine not getting through but others mails are which are sent more recently
[00:12] <Rinchen> tuxxy__, we made a change recently to the internals to something we thought was no longer being used.  The error that was found suggests we missed something.
[00:12] <Rinchen> Let me queue this up for our mailing list guru to check in the morning.
[00:14] <tuxxy__> ok no problem, you want me to make a report or anything
[00:14] <Rinchen> tuxxy__, could please email the list again from  your google account?
[00:14] <tuxxy__> ok
[00:14] <Rinchen> and yes, tuxxy__ can you please file a bug report on it.  Please include the team name and what you've explained above
[00:14] <Rinchen> I'll make sure it get's over to our mailing list guru in the morning
[00:15] <Rinchen> inlcude that you talked to me in the bug report please
[00:15] <Rinchen> and that I verified proper setup in LP
[00:15] <Rinchen> and was able to send a test post
[00:16] <tuxxy__> ok no problem, is this correct address https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug
[00:17] <tuxxy__> I sent the e-mail also
[00:18] <Rinchen> tuxxy__,  	 https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
[00:18] <Rinchen> that will get you to filing against Launchpad itself
[00:18] <Rinchen> thanks
[00:37] <tuxxy__> Rinchen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/273790
[00:39] <Rinchen> tuxxy__, cheers for that.
[00:39] <tuxxy__> no problem
[00:39] <tuxxy__> =)
[01:44] <tgm4883_laptop> Is there some reason that project bugs won't expire, even though the project is setup to have them expire?  Like bug 151612
[03:01] <mkanat> How the eff do I add an additional affected branch to a bug?
[03:03] <wgrant> mkanat: A project series?
[03:03] <mkanat> Sure.
[03:03] <wgrant> mkanat: "Nominate for release", under the status table.
[03:03] <mkanat> Okay. And then what?
[03:03] <mkanat> I'm the owner...
[03:04] <wgrant> Select the series, and you're done.
[03:04] <mkanat> It just says "Nominated for Bugzilla-3.0 by Max Kanat-Alexander"
[03:04] <wgrant> Ah, you apparently don't have privileges...
[03:04] <mkanat> I'm the project owner.
[03:05] <wgrant> Is there a driver assigned?
[03:06] <mkanat> There is now.
[03:06]  * mkanat notes to self, "Don't make my bug-tracker work this way."
[03:08] <wgrant> Can you point me to the project and bug so I can actually see how things are?
[03:08] <wgrant> And how should it work, in your opinion?
[03:10] <mkanat> wgrant: Well, that would be a little bit of helping the competition, wouldn't it? :-D No, I'd be happy to.
[03:10] <mkanat> Just give me a second while I'm doing what I was doing.
[03:11] <wgrant> The only relevant bugs I can see on your list seem to already have tasks against 3.0.
[03:11] <mkanat> wgrant: I just did it.
[03:11] <mkanat> wgrant: That is, I appointed my team the Driver.
[03:12] <mkanat> wgrant: The main problem that I have with Launchpad is that things take a lot of explicit setup in order to get them to start working.
[03:12] <mkanat> wgrant: For example, the Driver should be the project owner, if not set.
[03:12] <wgrant> For example?
[03:12] <wgrant> I would have thought that the owner should have that privilege, right. That sounds like a bug.
[03:12] <mkanat> wgrant: Okay.
[03:12] <wgrant> It doesn't make sense how it is now.
[03:12] <mkanat> wgrant: When I was originally setting up the project, also, I felt a bit overwhelmed by all the things that I had to set up.
[03:12] <mkanat> Yeah.
[03:13] <wgrant> (I am not a Launchpad developer, I just file lots of bugs and complain a bit)
[03:13] <mkanat> wgrant: I kind of just want a single page that says "what's the name of your project, list your branches, do you want to report bugs here?"
[03:13] <mkanat> wgrant: Fair 'nuf. :-)
[03:14] <mkanat> Launchpad has a bit of a problem that some of my apps have sometimes--that it exposes the UI based on how its backend objects are structured.
[03:14] <wgrant> Hmm, it is a bit strange that the project creation form doesn't ask for which bits of Launchpad will be used
[03:14] <mkanat> wgrant: Well, also that I first had to create a series and then assign a branch to it, and there's SO MUCH navigation on every page.
[03:15] <mkanat> I'm sure it's handy for somebody who's very experienced with the system, but not so much for me.
[03:15] <mkanat> It's not like a normal form, where there's just labels and values.
[03:15] <beuno> mkanat, we're working on making that easier
[03:15] <mkanat> Those I understand, there can be a lot of that on a page (even though ideally there shouldn't be).
[03:15] <mkanat> beuno: Cool, cool. I figured you were. :-)
[03:16] <beuno> a lot will happen a few months from now
[03:16] <mkanat> If I had the same resources to throw at Bugzilla that you guys have to throw at Launchpad, it would be beautiful and amazing. :-)
[03:16] <wgrant> beuno: So Launchpad developers have been saying for years...
[03:16] <mkanat> Of course, Bugzilla also does a lot less. :-)
[03:16] <mkanat> wgrant: Well, that's the nature of s/w development. :-)
[03:16] <wgrant> It is.
[03:16] <beuno> wgrant, well, I'm new here. So it's a new promise  :)
[03:16] <wgrant> Woah.
[03:17] <wgrant> This is an ugly page:
[03:17] <wgrant> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/blahblahblah/+filebug
[03:17] <wgrant> Three lovely big yellow alers.
[03:17] <wgrant> *alerts
[03:17] <beuno> it is icky
[03:17] <mkanat> I'm less concerned about the aesthetics than the confusion for new users.
[03:18] <beuno> mkanat, that's my focus, improving usability
[03:18] <mkanat> beuno: Cool. :-)
[03:18] <beuno> aesthetics is secondary
[03:18] <beuno> focused on making worflows optimal
[03:18] <mkanat> Great. :-)
[03:18] <beuno> planning tons of user testing
[03:18] <mkanat> One thing that's confusing to me is that Launchpad considers "Fix Committed" to be an open bug.
[03:19] <beuno> yeah, because it hasn't been released
[03:19] <wgrant> It is, to users.
[03:19] <mkanat> Yeah, but not to me. :-)
[03:19] <mkanat> And "List Open Bugs" is the only convenient bug browsing link that's on any page.
[03:20] <wgrant> The search UI really needs a makeover.
[03:20] <beuno> it does
[03:20] <beuno> it's also one of the hardest things to do properly
[03:20] <mkanat> You're telling me. :-)
[03:21] <wgrant> beuno: I know.
[03:21] <beuno> wgrant, so, we're picking our battles  :)
[03:21] <wgrant> mkanat: Hm, I was able to target to a release fine without being the driver.
[03:21] <wgrant> beuno: But that is perhaps the oldest battle in all of Launchpad.
[03:21] <mkanat> wgrant: Yeah, so can another member of my team.
[03:21] <mkanat> wgrant: Just I couldn't.
[03:21] <wgrant> It hasn't been touched in years.
[03:22] <wgrant> The pages in bug #272343 come close to being as ignored, and CVE pages similarly.
[03:22] <wgrant> But there aren't many of that grade around Launchpad.
[03:24] <beuno> wgrant, as I said, we have many battles to fight. Others seem to be more of a priority
[03:25] <wgrant> This is a problem with proprietary software. If the maintainers don't feel that distributions or security or searching are important, they stagnate for years and torture us.
[03:25] <wgrant> And there's not a thing we can do about it.
[03:28] <beuno> wgrant, torture seems a bit extreme
[03:29] <beuno> and, there are a lot of users to make happy
[03:29] <beuno> so it's expectable for open or closed software
[03:29] <beuno> to have unhappy users
[03:29] <beuno> we still want to do our best with limited resources
[03:29] <wgrant> Yes, but if it's open then $IGNORED_MINORITY can fix their pet issues.
[03:30] <beuno> not always, no
[03:30] <beuno> you have to understand the code
[03:30] <beuno> understand the development procress
[03:30] <wgrant> It's a lot easier to do that when it's possible.
[03:30] <beuno> convonce others it's important
[03:30] <beuno> etc etc etc
[03:30] <beuno> yes
[03:30] <beuno> Launchpad will be open next year
[03:30] <beuno> we'll see how that changes things
[03:30] <wgrant> Indeed.
[03:30] <wgrant> But how open is open?
[03:30] <NCommander> The question is will canonical accept code from non-employees
[03:31] <beuno> yes they will
[03:31] <wgrant> That is the big one, yes.
[03:31] <NCommander> Or are we going to have a GCC/NetHack style catheridal development model
[03:31] <beuno> no, code will be welcome
[03:31] <wgrant> Is it open as in "oh look, here's our code, so we're not evil any more. run along now", or "come along and contribute"?
[03:31] <wgrant> Aha.
[03:32] <beuno> why would we throw away useful contributions?
[03:32] <wgrant> Because I don't think anybody imagines that Launchpad would be opened for the sake of being open.
[03:32] <NCommander> Or else it would already be opened
[03:33] <tgm4883_laptop> something tells me that Canonical != Microsoft
[03:33] <tgm4883_laptop> just a hunch though
[03:33] <NCommander> tgm4883_laptop, Microsoft in its early days was very hacker friendly
[03:33]  * tgm4883_laptop notes NCommander's idea of Canonical becoming more like MS.  Makes note to squash him.
[03:34]  * NCommander is a firefighter, and thus not bothered by squashing
[03:34] <NCommander> or splatting, fire, guts, gore
[03:34] <NCommander> vomit (as long as its on my partner),
[03:34] <NCommander> :-)
[03:34] <tgm4883_laptop> silence infidel!
[03:34] <mkanat> Opening the code just opens up the possibility for people to contribute.
[03:34] <NCommander> I said *early* Microsoft
[03:35] <mkanat> It doesn't mean that they'll make good contributions, or contribute at all, but it does make it possible to do so.
[03:35] <NCommander> i.e., back when they shipped a UNIX
[03:35] <NCommander> I'm more interested in running my own Launchpad for its archive tools for Nexenta.
[03:36] <mkanat> I think the only place one's own Launchpad would make sense would be internally in organizations.
[03:36] <mkanat> If it's open source stuff, might as well use the central one.
[03:37] <NCommander> What about something like Debian, I don't think they'd want their development hosted by Canonical, but I could see them dumping dak for Soyuz
[03:37] <beuno> don't underestimate the value of someone else hosting it, and taking care of all the infrastructure for you
[03:37] <beuno> and, being able to cross-link to ther projects
[03:37] <mkanat> Yeah, the hosting is helpful.
[03:37] <NCommander> Some projects don't trust being hosted by a central authority. Or else every project would be on sourceforge, or FSF Savannah
[03:38] <mkanat> NCommander: No, because those suck. :-)
[03:38] <NCommander> ....
[03:38] <wgrant> Yeah, SF is awful.
[03:38]  * NCommander was a FSF Savannah admin
[03:38] <NCommander> :-P
[03:38] <NCommander> I agree at the moment Launchpad slaughters any SF based solution
[03:38] <mkanat> NCommander: Yeah, but I'm talking about the UI, not the administration. :-)
[03:38]  * NCommander is not going there
[03:38] <NCommander> I'm too tempted
[03:38] <mkanat> That's fine. :-)
[03:39] <NCommander> Well, for better or worse, at least Savannah's UI remains constant(ish)
[03:39] <NCommander> Something VA Linux should learn
[03:39]  * NCommander notes the current SF interface can cause eyes to bleed
[03:39] <mkanat> Hahahaha.
[03:40] <mwhudson> it will be interesting to see what happens when launchpad gets open sourced, to say the least
[03:40] <wgrant> mwhudson: Very much so.
[03:40] <NCommander> I'd be willing to work to seperate Soyuz and publisher
[03:40] <NCommander> so its possible to keep control and the fun stuff on launchpad.net
[03:41] <NCommander> But projects like Nexenta or Baltix can handle the build infrastructure
[03:41] <mwhudson> wgrant: I expect a certain amount of "aiee! my eyes!"

[03:43] <NCommander> Maybe its nicer now
[03:43] <mkanat> Yeah, that'd be an understatement.
[03:44] <NCommander> However, perl by definition has write only tendencies
[03:44] <NCommander> Every language has the ability to create write only code
[03:44] <NCommander> (with the possible exception of python)
[03:44] <NCommander> perl and C have high chances of becoming write only
[03:44] <NCommander> brainfrack is write only ;-)
[03:45] <mkanat> Hahahaha, for sure.
[03:45] <mkanat> And no, you can create write-only code in Python.
[03:45] <NCommander> Well, if you hack Python to give it COME FROM
[03:45] <mkanat> Just pick really bad names for all your variables.
[03:45]  * NCommander notes he's touched COBOL
[03:45] <mkanat> NCommander: Heh. :-)
[03:45] <NCommander> You know, its not hard to know why my pain tolerances are so screwed
[03:46] <NCommander> ALthough even my hack-o-meter explodes from time to time
[03:46] <NCommander> gcl
[03:46] <NCommander> source tarball is 15MB
[03:46] <NCommander> The diff is 70MB
[03:46] <NCommander> (uncompressed)
[03:46] <NCommander> yeah
[03:46] <NCommander> That is your eyes burning
[03:47] <wgrant> I touched that once... ow.
[03:47] <ajmitch> most of us have more sense than that
[03:48] <NCommander> ajmitch, your talking to people who write real mode code.
[03:48] <NCommander> Sense was undefined years ago
[03:48] <ajmitch> so?
[03:48] <NCommander> :-)
[03:55] <NCommander> hey emgent
[03:56]  * NCommander plays nethack
[03:59] <emgent> heya :)
[04:02] <NCommander> what's up emet
[04:02] <NCommander> er emgent
[04:02] <NCommander> emgent, still interested in WMubuntu?
[04:07] <emgent> yep, but we have some problem in wmaker now
[04:07] <emgent> we are waiting new infra
[04:07] <NCommander> emgent, well, we can spin the meta-package with a PPA
[04:08] <NCommander> Then its a matter of creating CDs
[04:08] <emgent> sure we can
[04:09] <emgent> but i think that first we should propose ubuntu-minimal ehehe
[04:09] <NCommander> Use server as a base
[04:09] <NCommander> And disable the server packages
[04:09] <emgent> uhm yep, good idea for start
[04:10] <emgent> anyway when i have time i will take a look, this isnt a good period now
[04:11] <NCommander> heh
[04:11] <NCommander> cya emgent
[04:11] <emgent> i have some other priority-stuff to write for ubuntu
[04:11] <emgent> hehe :)
[04:12] <emgent> 5.12 am arghhhhh i should sleep
[04:12] <emgent> see you later NCommander and thanks ;-)
[04:12] <NCommander> cya emet
[04:14]  * persia peers about to see if anyone feels like discussing workflows for branch merging, and automation of branch status values
[04:15]  * NCommander shoots a hand up
[04:15]  * mwhudson points persia at thumper
[04:15]  * NCommander gets a finger in an light socket and is electrocuted
[04:15]  * NCommander dies
[04:15]  * NCommander wants his possessions identified ;-)
[04:15] <persia> mwhudson: OK.  jml and spiv were deeply engaged about 18 hours back: were those not the right people?
[04:16] <mwhudson> persia: they're good too
[04:16] <mwhudson> persia: but thumper is actually working on this stuff right now
[04:16] <beuno> persia, we're working on that right now
[04:16] <NCommander> persia, what would you like to see changed about the current workflow?
[04:16] <beuno> what mwhudson said
[04:17] <beuno> persia, we've got *very* good results up to now, and the process should be very simplified soon
[04:17] <beuno> we've been doing workflow changes
[04:17] <beuno> and UI changes
[04:17] <persia> Actually, it's not so much about what to change, and how to change the automated detection of branch status, and looking at workflows for branch merging or patch hunting to ensure the end-state is desireable.
[04:17] <beuno> persia, one of the changes we have will mark branches as merged automatically
[04:18] <beuno> if they already where
[04:18] <beuno> auto-merge-detection
[04:18] <persia> beuno: Right.  It was mentioned that the process to manually set branch status would be lost once that landed, and I wanted to discuss only losing some of it.
[04:18]  * persia prepares a pastebin with a summary of desired state for those not involved in the discussion ~18 hours back)
[04:19] <beuno> persia, it won't loose any manual status changes
[04:19] <beuno> just wil set it merged automatically
[04:19] <beuno> it does the work for you
[04:19] <beuno> but doesn't make automatic mandatory
[04:19] <persia> beuno: Right, but we *should* lose some: when a branch is merged, it should go from "Development" to "Merged", and back to "Development" and the next unmerged push.
[04:20] <beuno> persia, sure, that's for branches, not merge proposals
[04:20] <beuno> and yes, that's exactly the idea
[04:21] <beuno> (we've been working on merge proposals specifically these days)
[04:21] <beuno> other parts of code will come after that, one of them being branch listings/statuses
[04:21] <persia> Right.  It was suggested that as a result of that, it would be possible to automate all branch statuses.  I believe that it's not possible to automate "experimental" or "abandoned" as these represent the input of human opinion
[04:22] <beuno> persia, do you think those statuses are useful?
[04:22] <persia> beuno: Yes.
[04:23] <beuno> persia, you would be able to set something as inactive
[04:23] <beuno> which is basically abandoned
[04:23] <beuno> but experimental would go
[04:23] <persia> What does "inactive" mean?  Also, why change established nomenclature?
[04:24] <beuno> active/inactive seem like better terms, don't they?
[04:24] <persia> Anyway, http://paste.ubuntu.com/49919/ represents the set of statuses I'd like.
[04:24] <persia> No.
[04:24] <wgrant> Inactive sounds to me like it should be determined by time since last commit.
[04:24] <lifeless> activity is observed
[04:25] <beuno> that's a very tricky thing to get right
[04:25] <persia> "Abandoned" carries the explicit implication that the developer no longer believes that the path pursued in the branch is useful.
[04:25] <lifeless> persia: you can observe that something is abandoned too
[04:25] <persia> wgrant: That's not very helpful.  What if I've a stable branch that hasn't gotten any updates in over a year because there are no bugs, and it is feature complete?
[04:25] <persia> lifeless: How>
[04:25] <persia> s/>/?/
[04:26] <thumper> persia: branches are marked as stable by associating with a series
[04:26] <persia> OK.  s/Trunk/Stable/ in my paste then :)
[04:26] <lifeless> persia: no activity[no bug links, commits, merges-from, merges-to, commits-to, whiteboard, etc], not a release branch.
[04:26] <beuno> persia, and showing merged branches is a bit pointless, so they should become inactive
[04:27] <lifeless> beuno: I don't think they should become inactive
[04:27] <lifeless> beuno: I think they should not be shown, but thats different
[04:27] <persia> lifeless: And what if I want to abandon something after two days of work?  How can I distinguish this from someone who only codes on weekends?
[04:27] <wgrant> persia: Right, so that state shouldn't mean "abandoned".
[04:27] <beuno> lifeless, sure, I mean not shown. With the status "merged"
[04:27] <persia> lifeless: Also, whiteboard doesn't show in the branch list, so is useless for branch discrimination purposes.
[04:27] <wgrant> persia: Activity is surely objectively measured.
[04:27] <wgrant> Abandonedness cannot me.
[04:27] <wgrant> *be
[04:27] <persia> wgrant: Precisely.  Which is why I want a manual flag for that.
[04:28] <lifeless> persia: You challenged an assertion, I think I've shown it. Now you want to talk about whether it makes sense to 'only observe' but I didn't claim that that was sensible.
[04:28] <persia> lifeless: fair :)
[04:28] <lifeless> with this, as with most things, I think a tasteful melange of inference and explicit information gives the best results
[04:29] <beuno> persia, your statuses make sense to me. I'll add that to the wiki so it's part of the discussion
[04:29] <persia> beuno: Thanks.
[04:29] <lifeless> specifically, I want to be able to correct lp when it infers it wrongly
[04:29] <persia> Now, about "Experimental".
[04:29] <lifeless> I'd like it to infer abandoned branches
[04:29] <persia> Sometimes people work on stuff that *should not be merged* and *should not be considered for cherrypicking* because it is far too invasive.
[04:29] <lifeless> and to notice when things are merged
[04:30] <persia> I'd like to have this be another thing people can set on branches, so those who are looking to cherrypick stuff know not to go there.
[04:30] <persia> lifeless: I'm fullly behind noticing when things merge, and when they diverge again.
[04:30] <beuno> persia, in general, you should know better than go around merging into random branches. no matter what people say about them
[04:30] <persia> inference of abandonment is harder.
[04:31] <lifeless> persia: I think lp is in a good position (see the list of things I made above) to do a decent job
[04:31] <persia> beuno: See, I disagree fundamentally with the style of development that your claim asserts.
[04:31] <persia> If I know a body of code, and I'm bored, there's no good reason for me not to go peering around in other people's branches for cherrypicks.
[04:31] <persia> Letting them flag things as "Experimental" tells me I probably don't want to look there.
[04:32] <lifeless> I like having a 'bleeding' flag
[04:32] <lifeless> I am not sure that in my head its in the same dimension as activity
[04:32] <persia> Well, I mostly like "Experimental" because I'm conservative regarding nomenclature changes, but yes.
[04:33] <persia> I'm not sure either of "Experimental" or "Abandoned" are about activity, but more about branch owner's opinion about the branch.
[04:33] <persia> In the first case, it's stuff that is *very* new and probably kills kittens, and in the second case it represents a blind alley (and I'd rather see stuff abandoned than deleted, just to help build a better map of which alleys are blind)
[04:33] <lifeless> persia: so in terms of choosing what branches are interesting to show
[04:34] <lifeless> persia: a lack of discernable activity is a good default filter;
[04:34] <persia> lifeless: Is it?  That assumes someone who pushes a branch has some attachment to the project to which the branch is associated.
[04:35] <lifeless> persia: No it doesn't
[04:35] <persia> Let's say someone branches locally to make something work better for them, but they aren't feeling particularly socially responsible.  Because someone pokes them on IRC, they push their branch to LP, and then let it rot.  How does this make the branch uninteresting without inspection?
[04:36] <lifeless> persia: after 6 months with no comments, merges-to-, merges-from- (fuck it, read the list above)
[04:36] <beuno> persia, I have a hard time believe people will use the experimental flag reasonably, or, at all. But it's going to be widely discussed before taking a decision, so I'm sure we'll go with the overall best change
[04:36] <lifeless> persia: its not going to be easy to merge, to work with, and clearly the contents *have not been interesting to anyone so far*
[04:36] <persia> beuno: We have an Experimental flag now.  It doesn't get used much, but I don't see how it's better to take it away.
[04:37] <persia> lifeless: OK.  I can see that argument.  And given that it has rotted over time, it becomes increasingly hard to use for anything.
[04:38] <beuno> persia, the only benefit I can see is that it simplifies things a bit. Less choices makes it easier for you to choose. But I'm not strongly set on this, especially if others feel strongly about keeping it
[04:38] <lifeless> beuno: I'd rather tags than an experimental bit
[04:38] <persia> beuno: Well, the only things I think are sensible choices are "Experimental" and "Abandoned".  We ought be able to infer all the rest of the available statuses from the branches directly.
[04:39] <persia> lifeless: The main reason I like having it as a flag is so there is a standard text to show in the default listings.
[04:40] <lifeless> persia: that implies a standard reasoning behind its use
[04:40] <beuno> lifeless, persia, wouldn't a description of the branch be enough?  "this branch is experimental. It *will* kill your baby"
[04:40] <persia> lifeless: Indeed it does.
[04:40] <lifeless> persia: and I *don't* believe for a second that we all share that in this currently-limited group, let alone thousands of devs
[04:40] <persia> beuno: I don't see either the description or the whiteboard in a standard branch listing.
[04:41] <beuno> persia, right. And it won't be. But if you're interested in something, go to it's page, read about what youre going to do
[04:41] <persia> lifeless: In the same manner as bug use of various bug statuses, if we can achieve some loose consensus and document it, we can create a common reasoning behind their use.
[04:41] <lifeless> persia: anyhow, you could always have a stock text for the tag experimental
[04:41] <beuno> plenty of people will have experimental branches as "new", which will make the status a bit pointless and random IMHO
[04:41] <lifeless> persia: to date, bug statuses have failed to do that
[04:42] <persia> lifeless: Well, given that we *still* don't have any way to differentiate interface based on tags in Malone, I'm not tempted by that.
[04:42] <beuno> writing descriptions to what the rational behind that branch is makes more sense to me
[04:42] <wgrant> Tags are useless as status indicators; you can't see them unless you dig deep into each bug, which is slow and painful.
[04:42] <lifeless> fooding
[04:42] <persia> beuno: But "New" will go away as it becomes time-based.
[04:42] <lifeless> wgrant: don't conflate things :)
[04:42] <wgrant> lifeless: What was I conflating?
[04:42] <beuno> persia, well, "development"
[04:43] <persia> beuno: Also, if I'm bored, and want to look at likely branches from which to cherrypick, I want a smaller set, not to have to check the bug page for *each* page.
[04:43] <persia> beuno: Well, I'm anticipating that it's not hard to tell people in a given project to use "Experimental" for the kills kittens stuff.
[04:44] <persia> Especially so if that matches the documentation presented by LP in the case where someone tries to edit the branch status.
[04:44] <beuno> persia, I fully understand your use case. The thing is, our experience is that no one really uses it properly, and tends to confuse users
[04:45] <beuno> hence the inclination to kill it
[04:45] <persia> beuno: I use it properly.  I'm not confused.  I don't want my feature to go away :)
[04:45] <beuno> but it's not a terrible thing to leave it around if there are enough use cases for it
[04:45] <wgrant> Why are my users looking at the branch listing?
[04:45] <beuno> persia, well, if you say it like that, it's hard to take it away from you...  ;)
[04:46] <beuno> also, for your use case, *everybody* has to use it properly
[04:46] <beuno> but, well, we'll see what comes out of it
[04:46] <persia> beuno: Well, yes, but the documentation on LP seems to encourage proper use.  Generally everything that isn't "New" today is the result of someone trying to do it properly.
[04:46] <beuno> I see your point for keeping it
[04:47] <beuno> and I don't think removing it will solve much
[04:47] <persia> If the standard workflow (New -> Development -> Merge Proposed -> Merged -> Stable) is automated, that's a big win.
[04:47] <persia> I just fear that automation of most of it will cause that which cannot be automated to be dropped.
[04:48] <beuno> so, at least from my perspective, I'm inclined to leave it
[04:49] <persia> Cool!  Only about 7 billion people left to convert :)
[04:49] <beuno> sure, change is scary. We should make it as less scary as possible
[04:50] <persia> Note that I'm not overly fussed about implementation, as long as it's visible from the standard branch lists.  If it's easier to do it as tags (but can still be shown), that's fine too.
[04:51] <beuno> persia, well, good news is, the more people you convince, the easier it should be. It's exponential!
[04:51] <beuno> I really don't want more tags on LP just yet
[04:51] <beuno> not until we use them properly on the UI
[04:51] <persia> That's what I thought.  Mind you, this would be a good thing to migrate along with other stuff once that it addressed.
[04:52] <beuno> tags and comments are getting a lot of love soon
[04:53] <persia> Cool.  Not my personal highest priority, but something that's certainly suboptimal currently in a couple ways.
[11:18] <wgrant> intellectronica: Do I have to steal some admin cookies, or will you mark bug #273886 as critical and get it cherrypicked voluntarily?
[11:19]  * wgrant considers setting his display name to something that will automatically comment everybody's cookies onto the bug.
[11:20] <intellectronica> wgrant: i am working on that bug right now. i can't myself decide on priority but i'm pretty sure that it will be marked critical and and get cherry picked into all production servers as soon as i'm done.
[11:21] <wgrant> intellectronica: This is good news.
[12:50] <popey> can an lp admin do something about At the Linux Plumbers Conference Thursday, Arjan van de Ven, Linux developer at Intel and author of PowerTOP, and Auke Kok, another Linux developer at Intel's Open Source Technology Center, demonstrated a Linux system booting in five seconds. The hardware was an Asus EEE PC, which has solid-state storage, and the two developers beat the five second mark with two software loads: one modified Fedora and one modified Mob
[12:50] <popey> oops
[12:50] <popey> sorry :)
[12:51] <popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/~kamion <- spammer in launchpad
[12:51] <popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+question/2047 example
[12:51] <Daviey> top find popey
[12:51] <popey> :)
[12:51] <laga> haha. colin watson? ;)
[12:52] <Daviey> laga: he's a known spammer
[12:52] <laga> yeah, but some answers seem legit?
[12:53] <Daviey> laga: it is his account by the looks of it.. i reckon cjwatson is a closet spam king
[12:54] <laga> oh, viagra spam. how original.
[12:54] <cjwatson> it's arriving by the mail interface, not by authenticated posts
[12:54] <Chiku> !rc
[12:55] <cjwatson> I've had a very large volume of bounces recently which indicate somebody is forging my from address on a large scale
[12:55] <cjwatson> (not unusual in the modern Internet of course)
[12:55] <popey> :(
[12:55] <Daviey> :(
[12:55] <popey> joe-job
[12:55] <laga> you seem to have a very good explanation for everything, mister watson.
[12:55] <cjwatson> exactly
[12:55] <cjwatson> sod off :)
[12:55] <laga> now tell me, how much are they paying you?
[12:55] <laga> ;)
[12:56] <cjwatson> I'd certainly appreciate an LP admin killing the spammish entries
[12:56] <Daviey> The real issue is, can cjwatson get us a discount on little blue pills?
[12:57] <cjwatson> FWIW that particular run ("Your internet access is going to get suspended") was so large that I had to filter my mail upstream to discard the bounces; I was getting so many of them that I couldn't download them over ADSL faster than they were arriving
[12:57] <cjwatson> I got in excess of 10000 bounces in four hours or so
[12:58] <popey> i had that happen to me some years ago, i also got quite a lot of hate mail as a result :(
[12:59] <cjwatson> if I got any, I didn't see it - the only way I could catch enough of the bounces was to filter on the entire message content, so anything with that string in it I'll just never see
[12:59]  * Daviey *assumed* the mail interface required PGP signing.. can't belive that isn't required!
[13:00] <cjwatson> it's required for anything that changes state, like bug control (the " affects"-type syntax)
[13:00] <cjwatson> not for ordinary contributions
[13:00] <Daviey> on the plus side, it must have added lots of karma points :)
[13:01] <popey> hehe
[13:02] <cjwatson> doubt it made a huge dent, I have quite a bit karma from actual work ;-)
[13:02] <cjwatson> +of
[15:25] <Adri2000> spam: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lintian/+bug/36505/comments/11
[15:39] <kiko> Adri2000, thanks.
[16:58] <jwendell> hi, folks. From what place LP gets my picture to show inside google maps (when someone clicks on me)?
[17:07] <mtaylor> jwendell: from your profile
[17:08] <jwendell> mtaylor, am I supposed to insert another picture aside apart from the main one (192x192)?
[17:09] <jwendell> because it's not working to me
[17:09] <intellectronica> jwendell: i think there's a bug associated with it. you used to be able to upload a smaller version of your picture but you can't anymore
[17:09] <intellectronica> salgado might know more about this
[17:09] <salgado> jwendell, bug 262739
[17:11] <jwendell> ah ok, thanks
[17:22] <intellectronica> wgrant: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxmaxima/+bug/43150
[17:23] <liw> I deleted a package (system-cleaner) from my PPA an hour ago, so that I can upload a new .orig.tar.gz; I still can't, LP claims the package still exists in the archive, what's up?
[17:25] <bigjools> liw: you can't rely on deletion requests to be able to re-upload the same source version with different contents
[17:26] <bigjools> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Deleting packages
[17:28] <liw> bigjools, that has worked before
[17:28] <liw> oh well, I'll not use the PPA for this, then
[17:28] <liw> thanks
[17:29] <bigjools> liw: maybe, this is a hole that's been plugged because....
[17:29] <bigjools> ok
[17:29] <bigjools> bye then
[18:31] <thekorn> intellectronica et al.: searchTasks is  just awesome!
[18:32] <intellectronica> thekorn: thanks. please feel free to bug me about it any time. it's already quite powerful, but i'm sure we can improve it even more
[18:34] <thekorn> intellectronica, one thing I just found out is: the result does not behave like other collections, for example it has no `total_size` attribute
[18:35] <intellectronica> thekorn: really?! i wouldn't have expected it to behave any differently. let me check
[18:37] <thekorn> maybe I'm using it wrong, http://paste.ubuntu.com/50210/
[18:42] <intellectronica> thekorn: that's interesting. would you mind filing a bug and subscribing me? i don't really understand why that is happening
[18:42] <intellectronica> maybe leonardr would have an idea
[18:42] <thekorn> sure
[18:43] <leonardr> intellectronica, thekorn, searchtasks probably returns an object that the web service doesn't recognize as a collection, so it's just passed through
[18:46] <thekorn> ah, ok
[18:46] <thekorn> intellectronica, bad news: bug 270792 is not fixed for me, still get a 503 error an staging when trying to get a list of messages of bug 1 from staging :(
[18:47] <intellectronica> thekorn: :(
[18:47] <thekorn> OOPS-998S71 if it helps
[18:52] <thekorn> leonardr, is this "result of searchTasks behaves not like a collection" a bug in launchpadlib or in launchpad itself
[18:53] <leonardr> thekorn: almost certainly launchpad
[18:54] <thekorn> ok, thanks
[19:03] <leonardr> thekorn, can you paste me the launchpadlib code you wrote that got that error?
[19:04] <thekorn> leonardr, I filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/274074 with the code
[19:04] <intellectronica> leonardr: see the bug i've just subscribed you to
[19:25] <leonardr> thekorn, it looks like a launchpadlib problem after all
[19:26] <leonardr> thekorn: you can workaround with int(bugs._wadl_resource.representation['total_size'])
[19:29] <thekorn> leonardr, ah ok, thanks
[20:50] <paolettopn> HI, goodnight at all,
[20:51] <paolettopn> There is an LP admin can solve our problem ?
[20:52] <paolettopn> ..
[20:52] <laga> what problem do you have?
[20:52] <paolettopn> ok
[20:52] <paolettopn> look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/46106
[20:53] <paolettopn> is so easy...
[20:54] <laga> ah. i'm sure an launchpad admin will look at it
[20:55] <paolettopn> Now we don't have a 'Source Code' Tag in our page
[20:55] <paolettopn> yes...
[20:55] <paolettopn> We are waiting for it...
[20:59] <paolettopn> ok , thanks again...
[20:59] <paolettopn> see you later..
[21:54] <thekorn> intellectronica, are you around? one more searchTasks question, how can I search for all bugs against a package in a distribution? is package == component?
[22:20] <Flimm> Why won't launchpad recognise my user when I commit?
[22:21] <ahasenack> did some timeout change in launchpad recently? I can't list the bugs from a particular milestone anymore, I always get a timeout error
[22:32] <Flimm> Found the answer: bzr whoami "Name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>solved it.
[22:34] <intellectronica> thekorn: you should be able to just call searchTasks on the package. does that not work for you?
[22:37] <thekorn> intellectronica, sorry, maybe I do not understand the datastructure, but how is a package presented in the API?
[22:37] <thekorn> is it a project?
[22:37] <thekorn> I don't see something like distibution["ubuntu"].package["vino"]
[22:38] <mars> ahasenack, which page are you getting timeouts on?
[22:39] <intellectronica> thekorn: ah, that's a good question. i always think of how you refer to these things using URLs (which is just like how you'd refer to them using the web interface). i'm not sure how you can get to it using the object model. let me find out
[22:40] <thekorn> super, thanks
[22:41] <ahasenack> mars: https://launchpad.net/landscape/+milestone/later
[22:41] <lordz20> hello room
[22:42] <mars> hi lordz20
[22:42] <lordz20> Hi mars
[22:42] <lordz20> hows your day
[22:42] <mars> ahasenack, works for me?
[22:42] <mars> lordz20, fine thanks
[22:42] <ahasenack> mars: you probably can't see the bugs
[22:43] <ahasenack> (Error ID: OOPS-998B3492)  is what I get
[22:43] <mars> ahasenack, ah, hmm
[22:43] <intellectronica> thekorn: the answer is that you can't get it like this, because distribution-source-packages aren't exported yet. i'll find out what's the plan - it shouldn't be difficult to get this out
[22:43] <intellectronica> thekorn: until then, your only way to do that is by using the URL of the package
[22:44] <thekorn> intellectronica, ok, can you give me an example of such an url?
[22:46] <intellectronica> thekorn: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox
[22:49] <thekorn> intellectronica, wow, really? I always thought the urls for the api have to look like    api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/...
[22:50] <intellectronica> thekorn: yes, they do. sorry, i thought the only interesting bit is the stuff after the domain
[23:00] <thekorn> intellectronica, ok, thanks, got it now ;) one other question: is it ok to tag new bugs related to the api in malone with "api" or should I leave them untaged
[23:03] <intellectronica> thekorn: feel free to tag them with "api"
[23:03] <thekorn> ok, thanks alot, and again: good work
[23:04] <intellectronica> thekorn: cheers. and thanks for all the help testing this stuff!


[02:10] <imgbot> [03:30] <imgbot> [03:30] <imgbot> [06:55] <sil2100> o/
[06:55] <sil2100> Oh! I see 71 promoted!
[06:55] <sil2100> \o/
[07:10] <sil2100> psivaa: once you're up and running - do you know why suddenly we have no manta test results? It seems to fail on the install step
[07:13] <Mirv> hey sil2100, and yes! :)
[07:13] <Mirv> sil2100: you're back today, or just visiting?
[07:18] <sil2100> Mirv: back :)
[07:19] <Mirv> sil2100: ah great! since I forgot that I need to leave before EOD for airport, when I mentioned that Fri & Mon are fine for me. I'm at the Qt Developer Summit until Thu (=flying back on Thu)
[07:19] <sil2100> Normally I would be off, since yesterday we had a holiday and by Polish law it means I can take a nearest day off instead, but today ogra_ is off so it would be nice to have some coverage
[07:19] <sil2100> Oh :)
[07:20] <sil2100> QDS, didn't know there was something like that
[07:21] <Mirv> http://qt-project.org/groups/qt-contributors-summit-2014/wiki
[07:22] <Mirv> 8 of us are going - tsdgeos, zbenjamin, greyback, mzanetti, savi_q, kalikiana, timp and me
[07:22] <sil2100> Mirv: excellent :) Have a good flight then!
[07:23] <Mirv> thanks :) but I'll be around for some hours still, I just need to reserve some time for packing too
[07:25] <sil2100> Right :)
[07:56] <pete-woods> hi guys, it's been so long since I added a new LP project, that I forgot what I need to do to get it into CI and then distro
[07:56] <pete-woods> I have https://launchpad.net/unity-scope-vimeo/
[07:56] <pete-woods> is it still fginther who sets CI / autolanding up?
[07:57] <sil2100> pete-woods: hi! For CI you would need someone from CI, usually fginther is the best bet
[07:57] <sil2100> pete-woods: to get a project running on CI Train nothing really is needed
[07:59] <pete-woods> sil2100: okay, thanks, I just wanted to get the ball rolling early, as this project is on the list for RTM, and it took a few days or so last time I did this (to get into distro)
[08:02] <psivaa> sil2100: looking
[08:12] <psivaa> sil2100: manta devices in the lab are having issues. there is a ticket open for that with the IS and they are still dealing with it
[08:15] <sil2100> psivaa: thanks! Good to know it's nothing on our side
[08:16] <psivaa> sil2100: yea, flo-03 also is down in the lab
[08:31] <sil2100> popey, davmor2: meeting!
[08:40] <davmor2> popey: do you see duplicates for clock and terminal in installed apps and apps in available when they are installed again
[08:48] <Mirv> good new qt5.3 bugs, thanks popey. I've also tried to file as many bugs as possible so that while I'm at QtCS there's enough bugs to work on :)
[08:49] <davmor2> 2380 in bugs/LP folder I'm not sure that is a good thing
[08:49] <davmor2> by the end of the week who knows I may of caught up with my emails :(
[08:51] <popey> davmor2: not sure, how do you mean?
[08:53] <davmor2>  popey I'll take a screenshot after when I'm on for real
[09:05] <oSoMoN> hi, can someone help me figure out why lately all the webbrowser-app-ci jobs fail on mako with the following error: "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'unlock_unity'" ?
[09:06] <oSoMoN> e.g. https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/6802/console
[09:22] <Mirv> zbenjamin: why is this https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-015-2-publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_qtcreator-plugin-remotelinux_3.0.1+14.10.20140609-0ubuntu1.diff needed? we'd need a packaging ack for that.
[09:58] <oSoMoN> cihelp: anyone can shed a light on the failures I’m seeing at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/6802/console ?
[09:59] <mandel> sil2100, I have been told that you have already dealt with the dbus-cpp symbols, can you give me a hand with the following branch => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/dbus-cpp/expose_executor/+merge/222200
[09:59] <ev_> oSoMoN: I'll have a look after this phone call in a minute
[09:59] <oSoMoN> ev_, thanks!
[09:59] <sil2100> mandel: hi! Let me take a quick look
[09:59] <mandel> sil2100, AFAIK I just added the new make_executor function and added it to the symbols file, which should be enough
[10:20] <davmor2> popey: is screenshot.sh and phablet-screenshot working for you?
[10:26] <popey> davmor2: mine work because I modified them... bug 1327139
[10:26] <popey> davmor2: ninja edit the phablet-screenshot script for now and move the socket location
[10:27] <bzoltan> Mirv:  do you know somebody around  who I can ask for and ack  on the silo15?
[10:30] <davmor2> popey: ta
[10:35] <davmor2> popey: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-phone/device-2014-06-09-113358.png note the empty terminal entry bottom right but that the terminal is top center
[10:39] <bzoltan> sil2100: I guess you are off today :) if not then I need an ack on the SIlo15
[10:43] <mandel> sil2100, I think is a matter of updating the package number to 4 since there are some symbols being added and some being removed
[10:44] <popey> davmor2: thats odd.
[10:45] <popey> davmor2: adb shell sudo -u phablet click list | grep terminal
[10:49] <sil2100> bzoltan: hey!
[10:50] <sil2100> bzoltan: not off, I'm here ;)
[10:50] <sil2100> bzoltan: I thought Mirv was taking care of that, ok, let me try finding someone
[10:50] <davmor2> popey:
[10:50] <davmor2> com.ubuntu.terminal	0.5.73
[10:50] <sil2100> I was just busy in code
[10:53] <popey> davmor2: no idea whats going on there,
[10:59] <Mirv> bzoltan: I was trying to ask zbenjamin why the only change was needed, but didn't get an answer
[10:59] <Mirv> at this point it's however safe to say I'm not handling it, instead I'm panic-packing my luggage ;)
[10:59] <bzoltan> Mirv:  what chage?
[10:59] <sil2100> Mirv, bzoltan: it's +1'ed ;)
[10:59] <bzoltan> Mirv:  you should not miss your flight
[10:59] <sil2100> So no need to worry about it
[10:59] <Mirv> bzoltan: no problem indeed, already published. it was https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-015-2-publish/29/artifact/packaging_changes_qtcreator-plugin-remotelinux_3.0.1+14.10.20140609-0ubuntu1.diff
[11:00] <sil2100> If it breaks anything we'll fix it, right? :)
[11:00] <bzoltan> sil2100:  hehe... sure we do
[11:03] <bzoltan> sil2100: Mirv: for some reason the remoteloinux plugin did not find the QTC plugin dir... it is a strange package. We need to check it at some point
[11:03] <sil2100> mandel: ok, only now looking at it, but I have some ideas already
[11:04] <mandel> sil2100, tell me, I want to understand why it complains, make_executor(io_service* was the new addition all others are missing ones and are pointing to private symbols
[11:05] <mandel> sil2100, my understanding is that I should bump the version number to 4 since 3.1 is not good enough
[11:05] <sil2100> mandel: the missing ones are not a problem, as they are set as 'optional' - so they appear in the diff as MISSING but they will not cause a failure
[11:05] <mandel> sil2100, yes debuild is failing due to that..
[11:05] <sil2100> mandel: what is causing the failure is actually the new symbol, it seems to be invalid for 32-bit archs
[11:06] <mandel> sil2100, really?
[11:06] <sil2100> The other symbols just generate a warning
[11:07] <sil2100> Need to look more into why it's like that
[11:07] <sil2100> mandel: as the problem is here:
[11:07] <sil2100> - (c++)"core::dbus::asio::make_executor(std::shared_ptr<core::dbus::Bus> const&, boost::asio::io_service &)@Base" 0replaceme
[11:07] <sil2100> + _ZN4core4dbus4asio13make_executorERKSt10shared_ptrINS0_3BusEERN5boost4asio10io_serviceE@Base 3.1.0bzr61pkg0utopic8-0ubuntu1
[11:07] <mandel> sil2100, will be appreciate it, I have a branch where I bump eveything to 4 and works fine
[11:07] <sil2100> So, what I will do now is demangle this thing and compare, if there is any difference
[11:08] <mandel> sil2100, weird, cuase I used c++filt with that and was ok
[11:08] <davmor2> popey: also if I install an app like the here.com app it is still showing in available
[11:11] <sil2100> mandel: let me experiment one thing on a chroot, one moment
[11:11] <mandel> sil2100, sure
[11:11] <popey> davmor2: i am not seeing that
[11:12] <sil2100> mandel: as I think I see what's wrong, but this would mean dpkg-gensymbols is REALLY stupid
[11:12] <davmor2> popey: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-phone/device-2014-06-09-121217.png
[11:13] <davmor2> popey: does it on most of the apps I've installed recently but not the ones I installed a while ago
[11:13] <popey> davmor2: http://imgur.com/LeJhxAd
[11:14] <popey> davmor2: did your phone get updated through all the broken images before ~#71 ?
[11:15] <davmor2> popey: pass I was on holiday and the first image away from home completely screwed it so when I got home Saturday I did ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-proposed to fix it
[11:15] <popey> hm
[11:15] <popey> dunno then
[11:15] <davmor2> I might do a bootstrap flash
[11:15] <davmor2> see if it still happens then
[11:25] <sil2100> mandel: ok, I have it I think
[11:27] <mandel> sil2100, great, what do you think is the issue?
[11:28] <sil2100> mandel: commented on the merge :)
[11:28] <sil2100> mandel: really stupid thing...
[11:28]  * popey pokes ogra_
[11:28] <mandel> popey, is a bank holiday in germany AFAIK
[11:28] <popey> i know
[11:28] <popey> I'm poking him because he's just submitted 10 apps to the store ☻
[11:28] <sil2100> mandel: you'll just laugh when you see the source of the problem
[11:28] <ogra_> popey, whats up ? issues with my new submitted apps in the store ? :=
[11:28] <ogra_> :)
[11:29] <sil2100> Are those German apps?!
[11:29] <mandel> sil2100, a space? WTF?
[11:29] <ogra_> nope, all games
[11:29] <sil2100> mandel: YES :D It seems dpkg actually thinks it's a different symbol with that whitespace in it ._.
[11:29] <popey> ogra_: first one failed
[11:30] <ogra_> on what ?
[11:30] <popey> check your email ☻
[11:30]  * ogra_ has no mail yet ... *waiting*
[11:30] <popey>       "text": "could not find --enable-back-forward in 'webapp-container http://m.tap.pm/gem2-mob/index.html'"
[11:30] <popey>       "text": "must specify one of --webappUrlPatterns or --webappModelSearchPath"
[11:30] <mandel> sil2100, wow.. very disappointed with dpkg...
[11:30] <ogra_> argh
[11:31] <ogra_> i explicitly disabled it :(
[11:31] <ogra_> in all of them :((
[11:31] <mandel> sil2100, thx for the help, I would have never considered that!
[11:31] <sil2100> mandel: yw! Well, I would never expect that myself as it's just stupid ;)
[11:31]  * ogra_ will fix then ... damned, i didnt want any toolbar ... they are all fullscreen apps
[12:14]  * sil2100 lunch
[12:17] <oSoMoN> ev_, any luck with my mako failures on webbrowser-app-ci?
[12:23] <mandel> sil2100, mp fixed, can you please add a +1 or abstain?
[12:30] <sil2100> mandel: sure :)
[12:31] <sil2100> mandel: done
[12:31] <mandel> thx
[13:03] <davmor2> popey: qt5.3 meeting is it cancelled?
[13:03] <popey> looks that way
[13:03] <popey> i was just getting a coffee for it and it disappeared
[13:04] <davmor2> popey: not just me then phew,  Still playing the email catch up game
[13:11] <bregma> hey trainguards I've had line 21 ready and waiting for a silo for a week or so, could I please get one assigned?
[13:14] <sil2100> bregma: hey! From what I see ricmm's landing still didn't land...
[13:14] <bregma> the unity-app-launcher rename?
[13:14] <sil2100> ricmm: hi, how's it going? I think we have the fixed papi in the archive now, so we could land yours soon?
[13:15] <sil2100> bregma: no no, there's a big platform-api v2 waiting for weeks already
[13:16] <sil2100> bregma: it was pushed back all the time because of other landings landing in the meantime
[13:16] <bregma> ah, I missed that one, didn't realize he was including chages to the desktop there
[13:16] <sil2100> bregma: it locks the unity8-desktop-session as well...
[13:16] <sil2100> Yeah, normally I would override, but this has been pushed back so many many times that I would prefer it to finally land :(
[13:16] <bregma> I guess I'll just keep on waiting
[13:17] <sil2100> bregma: I could assign a silo for you for testing but as I said, I would like this to land finally
[13:17] <sil2100> Then you could only rebuild after this lands and do a quick retest
[13:17] <sil2100> Would that be fine?
[13:18] <bregma> I can test all I want without a silo, but it's blocking the Unity8 desktop ISO spin, so it should just wait until everything's ready, no special treatment
[13:27] <davmor2> popey: if you open the accounts page setup your twitter account and then on returning to the main accounts list do you get a missing title on the selector like this one for facebook http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-phone/device-2014-06-09-142542.png
[13:28] <ev_> oSoMoN: apologies, I completely ran out of time to look at it. sil2100, can you have a look given that we're now in your vanguard shift?
[13:28] <sil2100> ev_: hi! I didn't know we're still doing vanguard shifts?
[13:29] <sil2100> Like, me and robru
[13:29] <ev_> yeah, we discussed that in Malta, remember?
[13:29] <popey> davmor2: i cant add a facebook account so i cant reproduce that
[13:29] <davmor2> popey: that's why I said twitter it happens there too
[13:29] <sil2100> ev_: right, but I thought that was only if we would be part of CI, right? Or is that also as part of Foundations work?
[13:29] <ev_> sil2100: it'll ensure that you guys have good operational understanding of the infrastructure
[13:30] <sil2100> I was simply unaware as slangasek didn't mention that we're still doing that
[13:30] <davmor2> popey: facebook was just the one I took a screenshot of :)
[13:30] <ev_> sil2100: this was a conversation after the switch to CI. I'll confirm with slangasek though
[13:31] <sil2100> I'll try taking a look in-between things anyway
[13:31] <sil2100> oSoMoN: ^
[13:31] <popey> davmor2: http://imgur.com/k3PjKfn oddly broken differently
[13:32] <davmor2> popey: yeah yours was ota though right?
[13:32] <popey> davmor2: ya
[13:32] <popey> t1mp: i now agree with om26er_ - the back button is hard to hit.
[13:32] <om26er_> \o/
[13:33] <davmor2> popey: you and your little hands :)
[13:33] <popey> nope
[13:33] <popey> the target needs to be made bigger
[13:33] <ev_> sil2100: thank you
[13:33] <davmor2> popey: the one in the new header?
[13:34] <t1mp> popey: you cannot change your mind afterwards ;)
[13:34] <popey> t1mp: haha!
[13:34] <popey> davmor2: yes
[13:36] <t1mp> davmor2, popey could also be too thick fingers, the pressed point recorded is the pixel that you touch first, which is difficult to predict when you touch with a full finger (= lots of pixels at once)
[13:36] <davmor2> t1mp: I'm new to the argument I say it's too small or the name of the tab is too close to it.  It's too easy to hit the tab name with the fleshy part of your thumb when operating one handed
[13:36] <popey> t1mp: we need to have stuff on screen which shows where you hit momentarily
[13:36] <popey> which would also be useful for watching autopilot, and seeing where AP has tapped/swiped
[13:36] <t1mp> popey: oh that would be cool indeed
[13:37] <popey> where would that go? mir/unity?
[13:37] <ahayzen> popey, isn't this what i requested in the autopilot feedback?
[13:37] <t1mp> I saw lightroom for ipad has a "demo mode" which does exactly that (also handy for recording demos)
[13:37] <popey> yes ahayzen
[13:37] <t1mp> davmor2: the bug is on my list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1327171 feel free to comment
[13:37] <ahayzen> popey, just a dot to show where the 'mouse' is
[13:37] <davmor2> popey: I witness t1mp +1 on implementing a where did I tap the screen
[13:38] <popey> implement it!
[13:38] <davmor2> t1mp: when are you landing it popey and I can't wait :D
[13:38] <popey> it's not like t1mp is at a conference or anything
[13:38] <oSoMoN> sil2100, thanks, I appreciate it!
[13:38] <ahayzen> popey, but as you said what do we report the bug against?
[13:38] <t1mp> popey: heh :) I am actually :)
[13:38] <popey> i think it should be in unity
[13:38] <popey> with an environment variable like the performance overlay
[13:38] <ahayzen> yeah
[13:39] <popey> ahayzen: feel free to file a bug in unity8 ☻
[13:39] <t1mp> davmor2: can you paste the code for your prototype in the bugreport?
[13:39] <ahayzen> popey, will do i'll ping you the link when i've done it :)
[13:39] <popey> ta
[13:39] <t1mp> davmor2: just put a mousearea on top of your app that doesn't accept any events.... that sounds easy but I guess it will mess up all the mouse events then
[13:39] <t1mp> zsombi: ^right?
[13:42] <zsombi> t1mp: heh?
[13:42] <davmor2> t1mp: you want something like the screen recording tool on widows/mac where you get a visual dot where you click/touch I guess  So I assume that it is mir screencast that should cover it rather than unity8 maybe :)
[13:42] <popey> no, because i dont want to be recording all the time
[13:42] <popey> e.g. when running AP tests
[13:44] <t1mp> zsombi: for debugging it would be nice to have an indication on the screen where you are touching it.. just wondering if you have ideas whether that could be done by putting a mousearea/toucharea on top of the app that rejects all events but still shows some visual
[13:45] <ahayzen> popey, something like this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1328115
[13:45] <zsombi> t1mp: definitely not a mouse area, as that either steals all events or if you pass it over its children, it will no longer receive anything else that pressed events
[13:45] <davmor2> popey: true but maybe have an env setting like AP_MIR_SCREENCAST_SHOW_TOUCH=true and then it doesn't record it just shows the area touched maybe?
[13:45] <t1mp> zsombi: yeah, that's what I tought
[13:45] <popey> davmor2: i think it should be part of unity, but yeah.
[13:46] <zsombi> t1mp: so it has to be in Mir or a special filter which grabs everything from app
[13:46] <pete-woods> cihelp: hi guys, I want to try and get a package into utopic/universe now (as mentioned earlier) I have an empty ready for CI train, is there anything else I should do besides get someone to add it to the spreadsheet for me?
[13:47] <ricmm> sil2100: I've been working today on updating my branches and making sure the silo builds/works ok
[13:47] <ricmm> sil2100: so yea, soon
[13:47] <ahayzen> FYI android has the option of a dot to show the current position, which can be turned on in the developer options
[13:47] <t1mp> zsombi: yeah, putting a TouchArea on top of the MainView in uitk would be too easy
[13:47] <cjohnston> pete-woods: you need to speak to someone who works with the CI Train.. look at the topic to find out who
[13:47] <t1mp> zsombi: I guess that^ wouldn't work.. but I haven't tried it out
[13:48] <zsombi> t1mp: touch area is similar to the other one: if it handles a touch event, no other item will get that
[13:48] <zsombi> t1mp: and you don't even have the luxury there to pass events to children :)
[13:50] <t1mp> zsombi: so how could unity8 work around it? that's a qml app
[13:50] <pete-woods> cjohnston: okay, spoke to sil earlier, hadn't realised he was looking after that stuff :)
[13:50] <sil2100> ricmm: \o/
[13:50] <sil2100> ricmm: thanks!
[13:51] <zsombi> t1mp: or the toolkit... cpp component
[13:51] <t1mp> hmm
[13:51] <t1mp> what do we use on device to run qml apps?
[13:52] <t1mp> for autopilot at least it could be built into that
[13:53] <ricmm> sil2100: a branch of the build failed, is it possible to continue the build from the point where it failed to merge?
[13:53] <ricmm> or do I need to restart the whole build job again
[13:53] <ricmm> it takes ~1.5hr
[13:55] <sil2100> ricmm: in citrain we only give the ability of rebuilding a single component - would that help? But it will need to merge in all the merges
[13:55] <sil2100> For that component
[13:55] <ricmm> I'll just rebuild everything
[13:55] <ricmm> to make sure its clean
[13:56] <ricmm> sil2100: I want a clean, fresh build of the whole thing in silo 7
[13:56] <ricmm> force_rebuild and ignore_step?
[13:57] <sil2100> hmmmm, let me take a quick look
[13:57] <sil2100> ricmm: yeah
[14:05] <ricmm> sil2100: ok building
[15:23] <davmor2> popey: is it me or does having the spinning dots not make it seem like it takes for ever for an app to open
[15:27] <sil2100> oSoMoN: btw. regarding those mako CI failures - when did those start? Was that after we landed the split greeter?
[15:28] <oSoMoN> sil2100, quite possibly, although I don’t remember for sure
[15:33] <popey> davmor2: i dont think so personally.
[15:34] <popey> its way nicer than a white screen
[15:35] <davmor2> popey: agreed it is nicer
[15:42] <renato> fginther, hi, all my jobs are getting stuck on jenkings: http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/phablet-team-address-book-app-staging-ci/
[15:51] <fginther> renato, looking
[15:58] <fginther> renato, there was a machine that was locked up. tests should start running again.
[15:58] <sil2100> ev: I had a quick look at that failure oSoMoN is having and I see that I think they're using the old way of unlocking the screen
[15:58] <renato> fginther, thanks
[15:59] <sil2100> fginther: do you know who's dealing with generic-mediumtests-runner-mako ? :)
[16:00] <sil2100> fginther: since I think those (at least for webbrowser-app) are using some deprecated way of unlocking the screen
[16:00] <sil2100> fginther: it should use the one from /usr/share/unity8/unlock-device in unity8-autopilot I guess
[16:00] <fginther> sil2100, I'm looking at that. those projects need to be switched to using the newer test runner
[16:00] <sil2100> fginther: thanks :)
[16:03] <pete-woods> fginther: hi, would you be able to add this LP project (https://launchpad.net/unity-scope-vimeo) to your list of projects for CI?
[16:04] <pete-woods> I have an MR we can try it out with: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-api-team/unity-scope-vimeo/empty-commit/+merge/222498
[16:06] <fginther> pete-woods, I've added it to the list, should be ready a little later
[16:06] <pete-woods> fginther: awesome, thanks!
[16:39] <dobey> fginther: hey. did the rum make it back ok? :)
[16:46] <tedg> ricmm, Is platform API 2 landing today?
[16:47] <ricmm> tedg: it might be, once it finishes building
[16:47] <ricmm> why?
[16:48] <tedg> ricmm, We were trying to decide when to land alarms for datetime, didn't want to overlap.
[16:48] <tedg> Keep the churn low
[16:49] <ricmm> well if it doesnt land today, it lands tomorrow
[16:49] <ricmm> depends on how much further testing I ask people to do
[16:49] <ricmm> wait for it, and go ahead with rebasing
[16:49]  * sil2100 would love ricmm's papi v2 to land finally
[16:50] <sil2100> It's waiting for landing long enough
[16:50] <tedg> I don't think we need to rebase as much as just know when it's reasonable to push a bigger change.
[16:50] <ricmm> it will, unless something else creeps in
[16:50] <ricmm> tedg: oh you will need to rebase
[16:50] <ricmm> if you look at my branch, things have moved places
[16:50] <tedg> Heh
[16:50] <tedg> Okay
[16:50] <ricmm> so if you are adding new files a rebase is probably in order
[16:51] <tedg> ricmm, Oh, I think the platformapi portion has already landed, I'm talking about the datetime part.
[16:52] <ricmm> tedg: the application API for alarms hasnt landed, only the hw API
[16:52] <ricmm> which charles uses to set hw alarms
[16:52] <ricmm> but there is no application API for it yet, not sure if thats what you mean
[16:53] <tedg> Yes, I'm talking about the setting them in the HW.
[16:53] <tedg> I didn't realize we were putting app API in platformapi. Guess that makes sense though.
[16:53] <tedg> Probably most apps at that level should be happy with the Qt interface, at least for a while.
[16:53] <ricmm> well there is an API branch from a while ago
[16:54] <ricmm> about setting them in hw, the API itself wont change, you just need to link against the base SO
[16:54] <ricmm> and make sure your running env has the backend selected
[16:54] <ricmm> or confirm that the default one from /etc/ubuntu-platform-api/ works for you
[16:55] <tedg> Yeah, so I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried that it's going to change how alarms work at that level, so it could confuse a platform API landing.
[16:55] <tedg> Doesn't make sense to do them at the same time.
[17:02]  * barry waves
[17:03] <robru> barry, stgraber, slangasek: so the spreadsheet is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dFVHQ3FuMDJGLUZCamJfSjYzbWh3Wnc&usp=sharing
[17:10] <robru> barry, stgraber, slangasek: http://people.canonical.com/~rbpark/citrain/
[17:12] <davmor2> sil2100: one master bug I'll be adding to it after Tea
[17:13] <davmor2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter-session-broadcast/+bug/1328187
[17:34] <stgraber> tedg: you got silo 014 for unity-scope-vimeo
[17:34] <tedg> stgraber, Great, thanks!
[17:40] <fginther> dobey, it did indeed :-) thanks
[17:42] <dobey> great :)
[17:48] <sil2100> barry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/FAQ
[17:48] <sil2100> barry, stgraber: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/citrain/silos/
[17:55] <robru> barry, stgraber: join #ubuntu-ci-choo-choo to be pinged
[17:59] <sil2100> o/
[18:00] <popey> tedg: on the subject of crashes on the phone, do you know if apport is switched on by default on the phone to upload (maybe  ev knows better)?
[18:01] <popey> because I find myself uploading crash dumps, because they don't seem to upload automagically
[18:01] <tedg> popey, I believe you have to opt-in, the new welcome allows you to do that.
[18:01] <popey> oooh!
[18:01] <popey> can i trigger new welcome?
[18:01] <tedg> popey, No, it's like the new customer deals at banks ;-)
[18:02] <slangasek> heh
[18:02] <slangasek> is it exposed in the settings?
[18:02] <tedg> Not sure how to do that, Cimi would be who I'd ping.
[18:02] <tedg> Yeah, it's in the about
[18:02] <tedg> Wait, sorry, privacy
[18:03] <tedg> There was a bug that the right file wasn't getting written by that setting, but I think it got fixed.
[18:03] <tedg> Perhaps Laney knows that? ^
[18:26] <brendand> where are these failures? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1319711
[18:27] <brendand> i didn't see them in any recent image, but we are highlighting them in the landing email
[18:58] <robru> brendand, if they're not in the latest image please email lukasz to tell him to take it off the landing email ;-)
[19:06] <brendand> robru, well of course i'm asking because i want to confirm that i'm looking at it right
[19:07] <robru> brendand, yeah, I don't see that failure in the latest smoketest run, and also the bug is marked as fixed, so it's likely just being included by mistake
[19:08] <brendand> robru, this is the right spot? http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch/mako/75:20140609:20140530/8487/ubuntu_system_settings/1235625/
[19:11] <robru> brendand, yep, you got it
[19:11] <brendand> robru, that hasn't failed since #30. it's a bit strange it got in the first place
[19:11] <robru> brendand, maybe check that it's been passing for more than just image 75, maybe it's flaky or something, if it' failed in the last 5 images it might still be relevant
[19:12] <robru> brendand, yeah, there aren't good guidelines for what failures should be in the landing mail
[19:12] <robru> probably just an honestmistake that it's been around so long
[19:12] <brendand> oh actually there's one at #52
[19:22] <robru> brendand, thanks for the email
[20:17] <ev> popey, tedg, slangasek: it should be opt-out by default
[20:18] <ev> if it's not, that's a bug :)
[20:18] <ev> it will only upload on wifi though
[20:18] <ev> so maybe that's what you're seeing, tedg?
[20:22] <tedg> ev, I haven't checked recently, but I think that it wasn't originally.
[20:23] <tedg> ev, I think that popey has an older install, so it's likely he doesn't have the defaults.
[20:23] <tedg> Would probably need to flash and wipe to ensure how things are.
[20:24] <tedg> Hmm, now that I'm thinking about it, we should probably write a test :-)
[20:25] <popey> ev: i have both old and fresh installs, none of the upload as far as I can tell
[20:26] <tedg> Oh, that's no good.
[20:28] <tedg> To #ubuntu-devel to grab bdmurray
[22:03] <Laney> tedg: The bug I fixed was in whoopsie(-preferences) itself. I think system-settings is poking it correctly. Check what the D-Bus interface things its properties are set to - I suspect if you've got a bug it's whoopsie not uploading for some reason
[22:03] <tedg> Laney, Yeah, I think that's where we're looking, discussing in #ubuntu-devel
[22:03] <Laney> ah
[22:03] <Laney> Oh yes. :)
[23:56] <rsalveti> robru: can I get a silo for line 34?


[00:11] <vorlon> mwhudson: hmm I think I saw something from doko /somewhere/ about the armhf target in gcc-11 being different but I can't find it.
[00:12] <vorlon> mwhudson: related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-defaults/+bug/1939379
[00:12] <mwhudson> vorlon: there was a thing with the default fpu type causing problems
[00:12] <mwhudson> the dkms faceplants are something else though
[00:12] <vorlon> oh are they?
[00:12] <mwhudson> well i thought so anywayh
[00:13] <mwhudson> "isb" isn't a fpu instruction
[00:13] <mwhudson> i think it's probably v7?
[00:13] <mwhudson> so somehow gcc things it's targeting armv6
[00:13] <vorlon> mwhudson: are the failures happening with gcc-11 in 11.2.0-1ubuntu3 from -proposed?
[00:13] <vorlon> eew
[00:14] <vorlon> mwhudson: well anyway, I hinted these because they're not glibc-related regressions
[00:14] <mwhudson> vorlon: this build log i'm looking at is ubuntu2
[00:14] <mwhudson> vorlon: yes that's fair, thanks
[00:15] <mwhudson> oh or maybe this is an arm vs thumb thing
[00:18] <mwhudson> anyway my turn for lockdown childcare, biab
[06:03] <doko> mwhudson, schopin: yes, fixing is better, but that was a small lump for some work arounds. no retriggered the tests
[06:03] <doko> mwhudson, which package is the thumb/arm mode issue?
[07:23] <schopin> LukasM[m]: could you please sync git-remote-hg? (LP: #1940385) -> fix the autopkgtests
[07:23] <schopin> TIA :)
[07:25] <slyon> schopin: ACK, looking.
[08:42] <schopin> doko: on dh-python, do you remember if there was a technical reason why you disabled the nosetests in Ubuntu? I can run the autopkgtest from the current sid version in an impish and the nosetests run fine.
[08:44] <doko> schopin, they need adjustment for the supported and default version, which happens when Debian and Ubuntu are out of sync
[08:47] <schopin> doko: is that debian bug 975536 ?
[08:47] <doko> probably
[08:48] <schopin> OK. I'll have a deeper look but I think the package can be synced back :). Thanks for the answers, appreciated.
[09:56] <mwhudson> doko: e.g<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:32] <mwhudson> grar https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libuev/2.3.1-1ubuntu1/+build/21989755
[11:25] <schopin> slyon: another sync for you ;-) LP: #1940423
[12:03] <slyon> schopin: done!
[12:04] <schopin> thanks!
[13:32] <tsimonq2> Is this thing on?
[13:37] <RikMills> tsimonq2: no
[13:38] <RikMills> IRC is dead ;)
[13:38] <tsimonq2> Well, hi either way. :P
[13:39] <RikMills> hi indeed. good to see you
[13:40] <tsimonq2> Unit193 ping, I heard something about pastebinit?
[13:40] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Good to be back :)
[14:33] <schopin> slyon: another one, haveged! A bit more involved this time, a proper merge! LP: #1940439
[14:34] <slyon> will have a look in a bit!
[14:36] <jawn-smith> I'll put these here as well: LP: #1939728 LP: #1939739
[14:36] <jawn-smith> They could both use sponsorship if anyone has the time
[14:49] <bdmurray> Should this build be taking this long? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sshguard/2.3.1-2/+build/21989457
[14:50] <bdmurray> The last one took 11 minutes so probably not.
[15:06] <jawn-smith> I'm pretty sure wcc just needs a rebuild with the new glibc in order to fix the failing tests. My reasoning is that when I run autopkgtests with the source.dsc they work every time, but if I just name the package I get the same failures as seen in current tests. Is a rebuild something a core dev can do or is there a process to get that done?
[15:15] <bdmurray> jawn-smith: look at example 1 here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NBS
[15:16] <laney> That sounds like it'd be a glibc bug though, if existing binaries break
[15:18] <jawn-smith> I suppose I'm not 100% sure it's glibc as when I'm running these tests I'm using the whole volatile toolchain ppa
[15:20] <jawn-smith> bdmurray thanks for the link, I'll prepare a no change rebuild after a little more poking at this package and it's tests
[15:31] <schopin> hmmm. How come 'git ubuntu clone notmuch' gives me a branch that points to the focal release?
[15:42] <jawn-smith> okay yeah just using --apt-pocket=proposed=src:glibc causes the segfault with the package name but not the source.dsc
[15:56] <schopin> jawn-smith: glibc 2.34 has migrated from -proposed, fwiw.
[15:57] <schopin> (or I have the -proposed libc on my system, which would be... less than ideal)
[15:58] <jawn-smith> schopin I think you have the -proposed libc on your system: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc
[15:59] <ginggs> schopin: 'rmadison glibc' says no
[16:01]  * schopin goes check his apt logs, scratching his head...
[16:02] <schopin> Oh. Well. I didn't catch that one, then :/
[16:03] <schopin> That's good news, in a way. I've been using it for 2 days without any noticeable issue :)
[16:44] <bdmurray> ginggs: It seems to me like we should also add dolfin[x] to big_packages for stable releases too. Do you agree?
[16:47] <bdmurray> uh, disregard me
[16:47] <ginggs> bdmurray: are there separate autopkgtest-package-configs	 for stable releases?
[16:48] <bdmurray> ginggs: no, but maybe once its hinted we should retest the stable releases so that we have an adjusted baseline
[16:49] <ginggs> bdmurray: ack
[16:53] <ginggs> bdmurray: i'll schedule those tests tomorrow morning
[18:24] <jawn-smith> Would a core dev mind restarting a gnutls28 build on ppc? It failed to build and the logs indicate a timeout
[18:24] <jawn-smith> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnutls28/3.7.1-5ubuntu1/+build/21992250
[18:29] <mdeslaur> jawn-smith: done
[18:29] <jawn-smith> thanks!
[18:29] <mdeslaur> np
[19:14] <Unit193> tsimonq2: 1. Openstack moved their paste service, though there are redirects I'm not sure they're working.  https://paste.opendev.org/show/bFVbXF44VrHbyS1Fxpd0 would be the new config.  2. https://paste.opendev.org/show/bHXpSLHjS4nu7WVJy5ST segment one is needed for config file support of defining private pastes (iirc), and the latter is LP 1785821 which is leftover from the python3 port.  As a side
[19:14] <Unit193> note, you may want to see https://github.com/lubuntu-team/pastebinit/issues/6 too.
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Thanks Unit193
[20:54] <mitya57> tsimonq2: welcome back!
[21:39] <jawn-smith> bdmurray do you mind hinting dh-ada-library? The tests have been failing since well before glibc 2.34
[21:42] <Unit193> tsimonq2: Thanks for looking into it, I owe an openstack guy a ping back now. :P
 "Simon Quigley: welcome back!" <- Thanks! Good to see you
 "Simon Quigley: Thanks for..." <- You can thank teward for nagging me enough. :P
[21:49] <teward> *was prodded*
[21:50] <tsimonq2> teward: pastebinit
[21:50] <teward> Unit193: the other reason Simon is online is 'cause he got the equivalent of a mega lightning strike on him which brought him back to life xD
[21:50] <teward> tsimonq2: i know, it's typical when I get prodded randomly I show up and indicate i was pinged in case someone wanted to chime in
[21:50] <teward> i just had to read ;)
[21:51] <Unit193> At least it's all patches!
[22:05] <bdmurray> jawn-smith: not for every arch though right?
[22:06] <jawn-smith> It's the same error for amd64, arm64, ppc64el, and s390x
[22:07] <bdmurray> right so it only needs to be hinted for those arches correct?
[22:09] <jawn-smith> Sounds correct to me, though I don't see any runs for it on riscv64