[11:26] <trijntje> hi all, I noticed that ubottu doesnt have a factoid for !dd like it has for !rm, what is the best way to add a factoid?
[11:34] <IdleOne> trijntje: you can tell ubottu in PM. !dd is <reply> What you want the output of !dd to be.
[11:35] <IdleOne> that will get sent to the ops team who will review the factoid and apply it or not
[11:36] <IdleOne> trijntje: that warning could apply to almost all commands really :)
[11:37] <IdleOne> trijntje: maybe add a link to a wiki page for instructions at the end
[11:37] <trijntje> IdleOne: well, sure, but rm has a similar warning. And like rm, there aren't a lot of uses of dd that aren't potentially dangerous
[11:38] <trijntje> I mean you can cat stuf to /dev/sda as root, but you'll mostly use it to view files
[11:41] <IdleOne> trijntje: if you can also add a link to a good wiki page with examples/instructions on using dd I will gladly add the factoid :)
[11:41] <trijntje> my google-fu is weak today, I cant really find any usefull pages about dd.
[11:42] <trijntje> debian has http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/ddcommand.htm, but thats rather light on warnings ;)
[11:42] <IdleOne> yeah, I can't seem to find anything either
[11:43] <IdleOne> I vaguely remember seeing something on wiki.ubuntu.com once, maybe it was on help.ubuntu.com
[11:44] <cprofitt> morning all
[11:45] <IdleOne> morning cprofitt
[11:47] <trijntje> IdleOne: I cant find a wiki/docs page for dd, sorry. Its not that critical to add a factoid for dd, I don't think I've ever seen a user paste a dangerous dd command in the chat
[11:47] <IdleOne> if it does ever happen there is !danger
[11:55] <trijntje> I didn't know that, thats also nice


[04:00] <jsgotangco> nice..maybe in a few more minutes
[04:02] <jsgotangco> hey
[04:02] <jsgotangco> it seems only us
[04:02] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:03] <mpt> What did you expect, the Spanish Inquisition?
[04:03] <ogra> lots of lurkers ;)
[04:04] <mitsuhiko> hi doc-team
[04:04] <jsgotangco> mitsuhiko: hi
[04:04] <mitsuhiko> :-)
[04:05] <jsgotangco> ok a few more minutes...
[04:12] <jsgotangco> ah well it seems no one is coming then
[04:13] <jsgotangco> alright, whoever is lurking at the moment, I've already drafted a release notes doc for breezy located at BreezyReleaseNotes
[04:13] <jsgotangco> on the wiki
[04:13] <jsgotangco> would appreciate the devels look at it and fill it up
[04:13] <jsgotangco> will be sending an email to the list later about it
[04:14] <jsgotangco> in other news, Corey announced that QuickTour is already done and the work for screenshots would be next
[04:14] <jsgotangco> if i remember right he said he'll add screenshots when we have artwork freeze
[04:15] <jsgotangco> I'm not sure of the current status of translations but it seems a number is already complete
[04:15] <jsgotangco> so please check BreezyReleaseNotes and edit as needed: Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu
[04:15] <jsgotangco> Edubuntu stuff is on the Edubuntu.org wiki pae
[04:16] <jsgotangco> any questions???
[04:17] <mpt> sounds good
[04:18] <jsgotangco> hopefully, during UBZ, we'll have a BOF at least
[04:18] <jjesse> sorry i'm back
[04:18] <jjesse> boss needed me :(
[04:18] <jsgotangco> hi jjesse! no problem
[04:18] <jsgotangco> anything to share??
[04:19] <jjesse> just working on getting stuff updated for breezy
[04:19] <jjesse> Riddell has been a big help in that
[04:19] <Riddell> I have?  cool
[04:19] <jjesse> Riddell: you've answered every question i've asked you
[04:20] <Riddell> kindae the least I can do
[04:20] <jsgotangco> i've seen your release notes (Kawabunga!)
[04:20] <mpt> jsgotangco: A BoF with nobody there?
[04:20] <mpt> or are you going?
[04:20] <jsgotangco> mpt: Corey is going
[04:20] <jsgotangco> i didnt get sponsored
[04:20] <jsgotangco> (its too far)
[04:21] <Riddell> jjesse: when do you think you'll have stuff that I should review (and upload)?
[04:21] <jjesse> i'm going to my in-laws this weekend so i'll have plenty time while my wife spends time w/ her family to work
[04:21] <jjesse> i'm going to shoot for end of next week?
[04:22] <jjesse> that should be release notes and quickguide
[04:22] <Riddell> jjesse: cool
[04:24] <Riddell> jjesse: let me know if you want me to review stuff in the mean time
[04:24] <jjesse> when the FAQ guide was changed did anyone make changes for Kubuntu?
[04:24] <jjesse> Riddell: thanks i will
[04:24] <jjesse> like make it current for breezy if changes needed to be made?
[04:24] <jsgotangco> as for me Edubuntu work, About Edubuntu is already in html for FF start page
[04:24] <sivang> what meeting is this now?
[04:24] <sivang> ah, docteam
[04:25] <jsgotangco> sivang: should be docteam
[04:25] <jsgotangco> but a lot didnt come
[04:25] <jsgotangco> its becoming a trend :(
[04:25] <sivang> how come?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> sivang: no idea they agreed on this day and time though
[04:27] <sivang> ok, do we have an erreta list or something close?
[04:27] <sivang> (Maybe the place is in the releae notes)
[04:27] <jsgotangco> BreezyReleaseNotes is the working draft
[04:28] <jsgotangco> all known issues should also be listed
[04:28] <sivang> ok, there's a pending bug for Dapper, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15017
[04:29] <sivang> what do you think?
[04:29] <jsgotangco> that's a known issue then
[04:31] <sivang> jsgotangco: I know, I reported it :) but shoudln't it go in the release notes?
[04:31] <jsgotangco> sivang: sure kamion already indicated so
[04:31] <jsgotangco> feel free to add it on BreezyReleaseNotes page
[04:31] <sivang> k
[04:31] <jsgotangco> thanks
[04:31] <sivang> no prob, I hate to see many unweary users falls on this
[04:32] <sivang> could create lots of unneccessary noise
[04:33] <jsgotangco> is there a workaround?
[04:34] <Kamion> don't use LVM?
[04:34] <Kamion> or set it up manually
[04:34] <Kamion> to have a separate /boot partition
[04:35] <jsgotangco> hi mdke
[04:35] <Kamion> the latter is probably a more realistic recommendation
[04:35] <mdke> hello jsgotangco
[04:35] <mdke> anything -doc going on?
[04:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: meeting?
[04:35] <jsgotangco> well not many came so we're just collecting stuff
[04:35] <mdke> great
[04:36] <jsgotangco> for the release notes
[04:36] <mdke> ah cool
[04:36] <jsgotangco> mdke: you got news on translations?
[04:36] <mdke> of what nature?
[04:36] <mdke> translation is going nicely
[04:36] <mdke> lots of languages are done for about-ubuntu and the faqguide is moving along steadily
[04:37] <mdke> we need to upload a new faqguide template and I'm working with rob^ about that
[04:37] <mdke> is he here?
[04:38] <jsgotangco> no
[04:38] <jsgotangco> probably won't
[04:38] <jsgotangco> its already 3am on his side
[04:38] <jsgotangco> 2 rather
[04:39] <mdke> ah!
[04:39] <mdke> np we'll do it by email
[04:39] <jsgotangco> corey announced that his quicktour is already done
[04:39] <mdke> sorry to interrupt, keep going
[04:39] <jsgotangco> and up for translation
[04:40] <jsgotangco> mdke: its ok we're almost done anyways
[04:41] <jsgotangco> alright anyone else?
[04:41] <jjesse> not really
[04:41] <mdke> how is jbailey getting on with uploading ubuntu-docs?
[04:42] <mdke> sorry if that question has already come up
[04:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: i haven't seen him lately at all
[04:42] <mdke> ok
[04:43] <mdke> i'm getting emails from rob^ so he is obviously doing the night shift at work ;)
[04:45] <mdke> is anyone going to UBZ?
[04:45] <mdke> from -doc
[04:45] <jsgotangco> corey is
[04:46] <jsgotangco> he got sponsored
[04:46] <mdke> good
[04:46] <mdke> i was thinking
[04:46] <mdke> we need to put forward the idea that docteam translations be included in the language-packs
[04:47] <mdke> or alternatively, that a separate script is prepared to get them uploaded automatically, because it is a PITA to download and convert to xml manually
[04:49] <mpt> I'm going to UBZ
[04:49] <mdke> cool
[04:49] <mdke> i kinda assumed that :D
[04:49] <mdke> mpt, good chance to do a BOF on Ubuntu Help then!
[04:51] <mpt> yes :-)
[04:52] <mpt> or at least get HelpfulHelp approved
[04:52] <mpt> and yelp decrackage bountied
[04:53] <mdke> :)
[04:54] <jeffsch> ok, what else we have on the agenda?
[04:55] <jsgotangco> oh!
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ok sorry
[04:55] <jsgotangco> if there is nothing else, we're done
[04:55] <jsgotangco> hey jeffsch i didn't notice you were here
[04:56] <mdke> does anyone know the status of help.ubuntu.com?
[04:57] <jsgotangco> sorry...the fridge.ubuntu.com is up already though :)
[04:58] <mdke> yep
[05:04] <mdke> jeffsch, would you be able to help in making a script to do the po->xml thing semi-automatically? i know that you can do scripty things :D
[05:05] <mdke> assuming we downloaded the po files and put em in the right directories
[05:05] <jeffsch> I'm not sure I have time
[05:06] <mdke> okay
[05:06] <jeffsch> I don't know what it would involve, but I can look into it sometime on the weekend
[05:06] <mdke> jeffsch, email me if you have time?
[05:06] <jeffsch> ok
[05:06] <jeffsch> segfault was working on something earlier this week
[05:07] <jeffsch> but my memory is faulty, and I can't remember many of the details :(
[05:07] <jeffsch> oh yeah, it had to do with creating an html from the translated docs
[05:08] <mdke> yep
[05:08] <mdke> i think he was working from the wrong original doc though, can't remember
[05:08] <jeffsch> he had a short little script that did po->xml thing
[05:08] <jeffsch> you should be able to find it in the logs, or just ask him directly
[05:08] <mdke> ok
[05:09] <mdke> the command is very simply, it's just that I don't know scripts
[05:09] <mdke> simple
[05:09] <mdke> ah I see his script on the ML
[05:09] <mdke> what we would need would be one which would do that for all languages
[05:13] <jeffsch> yeah, but if you need it quickly, I'm not your guy. I don't know scripty things well enough to do it both quickly and properly at the same time
[05:13] <jbailey> If you can describe exactly what you need, I can script for you.
[05:13] <jbailey> But I don't know those tools at all.
[05:15] <mdke> ok jbailey we can do that
[05:15] <mdke> jbailey, i'll mail you at some stage
[05:15] <jbailey> mdke: Luvly.
[05:15] <mdke> jbailey@ ?
[05:15] <jbailey> ubuntu.com
[05:15] <mdke> yeah, it was the first bit I was checking ;)
[05:16] <jbailey> *lol*
[05:16] <jbailey> =)
[05:16] <mdke> cool
[05:16] <jbailey> Yeah, I think for everyone it's just<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:16] <jbailey> For members, anyway
[05:17] <mdke> i thought you might be an employee :D
[05:17] <Kamion> employees who had @ubuntu.com accounts before it was done for all members are grandfathered, AFAIK
[05:17] <jbailey> Well, I am, but aside from that all Ubuntu members now have @ubuntu.com addresses as I understand it.
[05:17] <mdke> yes
[05:18] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, cool.
[05:18] <mdke> anyhow, i'll mail ya, it's dead easy and it will help maybe when packaging ubuntu-docs
[05:18] <jbailey> I'm be surprised if many of our LP accounts didn't match it anyway.
[05:19] <jeffsch> ok, i'm off to work. cya
[05:19] <jbailey> mdke: Lovely, thanks.
[05:19] <jbailey> ogra: You need to grow your hair.
[05:19] <jbailey> THen you can see them without a mirror ;)
[05:19] <mdke> lol
[05:19] <mdke> he can surely
[05:20] <ogra> heh
[05:20] <ogra> jbailey, it starts at the roots, not the tips ;)
[05:21] <jbailey> ogra: My silver hairs are long enough that I can see them clearly now. =)
[05:21] <jbailey> But I'm old ;)
[05:21] <ogra> HAHAHA
[05:21] <ogra> youre not even 30 :)
[05:22] <jbailey> Sure, but noone believes you when you say '29' =)
[05:22] <ogra> heh
[05:22] <jbailey> "Mhm, yeah sure." (they scribble 'age not disclosed')
[05:23] <ogra> we'll bring you good into your 30s at UBZ ;)
[05:23] <jbailey> It's funny 'cause it's true.


[18:31] <krumelmonster> Does AppArmoir support restricting bind to certain tcp/udp ports? https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/en/man5/apparmor.d.5.html says "There is no mediation based of port number" however https://gitlab.com/apparmor/apparmor/-/wikis/AppArmor_Core_Policy_Reference#address-expr describes rules specifying ports.
[18:49] <lunatiq> why would fail2ban stop running?
[18:49] <lunatiq> shouldn't it autorun?


[03:19] <Cheri703> Unit193: check out "no ordinary family" it's pretty good, we are on the second episode
[04:10] <Unit193> Cheri703: I'll check it out. I just started playing with Pandora today!
[04:10] <Cheri703> nice
[04:11] <Unit193> pianobar is a nice little program for it too...
[04:11] <canthus13> pianobar rocks... until it stops working and they have to rewrite it because pandora changed their api.
[04:33] <Unit193> canthus13: Would it make you feel better if I told you I haven't used synaptic in a bit? (apt-cache and apt-get all the way!)
[04:33] <Cheri703> Unit193: I'm going to bring that laptop tomorrow night
[04:34] <Unit193> Cheri703: I'll try to remember to bring the cord
[04:34] <Cheri703> kk
[04:36] <Cheri703> my awesome friends are loaning us their car tomorrow through the weekend
[04:43] <canthus13> Unit193: I use apt-get for most stuff.
[04:43] <canthus13> Unit193: synaptic's good for finding something when I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for... but apt-get is faster. :)
[04:46] <Unit193> If I don't know, I use apt-cache search
[04:46] <Unit193> What do you use for terminal RSS?
[04:47] <canthus13> I don't.
[04:48] <canthus13> I don't use RSS.
[04:48] <canthus13> I've tried, but I inevitably get so far behind that it's not worth it.
[04:51] <Unit193> I guess I'll stick with canto. I just have a few (Weather, NotAlwaysRight, portableapps, GAOTD, etc)
[04:52] <Unit193> Alpine or mutt?
[04:54] <Cheri703> my google reader account has over 75 feeds...possibly more
[04:56] <Unit193> I use google reader for LH and will start with things that have pics *cough*failblog*cough*
[04:56] <canthus13> mutt
[14:02] <thafreak> paultag: you around?
[14:03] <thafreak> paultag: who was that guy we had dinner with at OLF who headed up canonical's arm development?
[14:04] <thafreak> I'm looking to get the latest from the makers of the sheeva plug...but before I drop $150, I wanna see if there's better hardware out there
[14:04] <thafreak> I figured that guy would know
[14:35] <robho-neo> sup people
[18:06] <paultag> thafreak: humm?
[19:29] <thafreak> paultag: who was the guy who went to dinner with us after OLF...with jorge...he was the ARM dev lead
[19:29] <paultag> thafreak: dave mandella
[19:29] <paultag> yeah he was :)
[19:29] <thafreak> ah cool
[19:29] <thafreak> he's not anymore?
[19:29] <paultag> still is :)
[19:29] <paultag> but he was too
[19:29] <thafreak> oh ok
[19:30] <thafreak> I'm curious if there's much tiny hardware out there (besides the sheeva plug)
[19:30] <paultag> thafreak: shiva is hella old
[19:30] <thafreak> I figured he might be aware
[19:30] <deejoe> marvell has also got a little non-plug box
[19:30] <paultag> thafreak: guru plug is the new one I think
[19:30] <paultag> deejoe: really/
[19:30] <paultag> ?*
[19:30] <thafreak> exactly, and the replacements have bad reviews (heat problems)
[19:31] <paultag> thafreak: +1
[19:31] <deejoe> paultag: OpenRD
[19:31] <deejoe> open-rd.org
[19:31] <thafreak> they have a newer one...using the same guts, but better heat disipation...supposedly
[19:34] <thafreak> they say "From $149", but all the vendors listed want "$249"...
[19:34] <thafreak> grr...for that much, I'd build a mini-itx or something
[19:35] <deejoe> I guess if one were to do this on an OEM basis, it might make more sense?
[19:35] <deejoe> also, I don't know how mini-ITX with some sort of Intel-like processor would compare in terms of power profile.
[19:35] <deejoe> or TDP, depending on which side of that equation you care about more.
[19:36] <thafreak> well, not much...cost is the most important part of the equation for me :)
[19:37] <thafreak> I've seen some mini-itx boards with pico-psu's that only draw about 15w...which is still pretty good
[19:37] <thafreak> not as good as 5w, but still better than the 100-200 that normal pc's draw
[19:38] <thafreak> oh well...my goal is for something small and durable, that can run at a client's location 24/7, for me to ssh into...
[19:39] <thafreak> might get a pogo plug and put debian on it...can get those for < $75
[19:40] <Cheri703> once you guys are done discussing what you're discussing, I have a question (but seriously, not urgent)
[19:44] <canthus13> I think they're done.
[19:45] <BiosElement> Probably
[19:45] <BiosElement> And oh dear god, another idiot thought it'd be funny to attack Anonymous.
[19:46] <Cheri703> I have a client that originally wanted a desktop, but now is considering a laptop. I think they should stick with desktop, it's for a business office. I am trying to make a list of arguments against laptop...so far I have "more for your money, less chance of catastrophic failure due to a single piece failing, and if your desire for laptop is so you can access data when out of the office, I can set up remote access that will accomp
[19:46] <Cheri703> lish the same thing"
[19:46] <Cheri703> so...any thoughts are welcome
[19:47] <thafreak> yeah, I hate laptops
[19:47] <BiosElement> Point out that reparing a laptop generally requires hoping the maker will still service it. >.< Desktops are just a trip to the comp store.
[19:48] <thafreak> My one client just replaced every sales person's computer with a laptop...I hate it so much
[19:48] <Cheri703> yeah, I have 2 laptops sitting at my house that are really decent but unusable due to a single part failing
[19:48] <Cheri703> I go the "netbook + remote access" route
[19:48] <Cheri703> saves money overall
[19:48] <thafreak> I hope citrix's XenDesktop mobile computing ideas take off
[19:49] <thafreak> too bad they require winbloze server...and I could never get it working in my test setup
[19:50] <Cheri703> this is an office that currently has an old dell with a 1.93ghz processor and 256MB of ram....and no internet...I really don't think they need a laptop at this point.  You may have to send your laptop in for repairs, but there's a guy in Lebanon, OH that does amazing work for a reasonable price.
[20:57] <BiosElement> canthus13: I'm sure there is. I just see it as somewhat riskier.
[20:58] <canthus13> BiosElement: I used ebay to find him. dude has excellent reviews, so I felt pretty comfortable sending my old laptop to him. he had teh solder reflowed and the laptop back to me in 3 days... Evenr eplaced the CMOS battery at no charge. :)
[20:59] <BiosElement> Nice
[21:02] <thafreak> SSD or CF to SATA adapter?
[21:37] <canthus13> thafreak: SSD.
[21:37] <canthus13> CF-SATA would pretty slow, I'd think.
[21:37] <canthus13> If speed's not an issue, though, go for CF-SSA. it's cheaper.
[22:50] <Cheri703> Unit193: still at home?
[22:50] <Unit193> Cheri703: Yes
[22:50] <Cheri703> coming tonight?
[22:51] <Unit193> be there in a few minutes
[22:52] <Cheri703> bring the cord!
[22:52] <Cheri703> I brought the laptop
[22:54] <Unit193> I have it in the backpack!
[22:55] <Cheri703> woo!
[22:55] <Cheri703> we are sitting in a different place than usual, in the middle section of the restaurant
[22:56] <Unit193> We? you got more people?
[22:56] <Cheri703> husband is here
[22:56] <Cheri703> how are you guys getting here tonight?
[22:57] <Unit193> Using a SUV
[22:57] <Unit193> We found one down the road no one was using...
[22:58] <Cheri703> I meant: friend's dad driving/staying, friend's mom driving/staying, friend's parent driving/dropping off, your parent/sibling driving/staying/dropping off?
[22:59] <Unit193> Friends */* (I don't know anything...)
[22:59] <Cheri703> heh, ok
[22:59] <Cheri703> we'll be here
[23:15] <BiosElement> Amazing
[23:16] <Cheri703> ?
[23:16] <BiosElement> Anon totally screws over HBGary, a 'security' company after their loud mouth CEO declared 'war' on them, now after losing 60k emails he says he'll destroy anon. Awesome.
[23:16]  * BiosElement waits for him to show up on the FBI's most wanted list thanks to anon >.>
[23:17] <BiosElement> He thought it'd get him press by claiming to be able to take down anon's "leadership". >.<


[16:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4635 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (kinetic/isc-dhcp). Pending binary packages (kinetic/systemd). Ready to build (kinetic/netplan.io)
[16:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4635 Diff missing (kinetic/systemd). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (kinetic/isc-dhcp). Ready to build (kinetic/netplan.io)
[16:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4903 Preparing packages
[17:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4903 Ready to build
[19:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4903 Diff missing


[00:00] <xnox> Chipaca: please use /etc/machine-id, anything else is broken.
[00:00] <slangasek> xnox: nack
[00:00] <slangasek> /etc/machine-id is *also* broken
[00:00] <slangasek> it's *the same on every device*
[00:00] <Chipaca> xnox: for what?
[00:00] <xnox> slangasek: WHAT?!
[00:00] <slangasek> you're jumping the gun slightly :P
[00:00] <slangasek> xnox: it's in the base image, how would it have been made unique?
[00:00] <xnox> slangasek: /etc/machine-id must not be the same =
[00:00] <slangasek> that's nice ;)
[00:01] <xnox> Chipaca: push & unique identification.....
[00:01] <xnox> slangasek: let me check livefs image to see if all /etc/machine-ids are the same on all ubuntus....
[00:01] <xnox> (ditto dbus ids)
[00:02] <slangasek> dbus ID is handled
[00:02] <slangasek> /etc/machine-id is a neologism
[00:02] <xnox> slangasek: /var/lib/dbus/machine-id should be a symlink to /etc/machine-id in the new world order....
[00:02] <slangasek> all these opinions
[00:02] <slangasek> fwiw mine are in sync, but it's not a symlink
[00:03] <slangasek> and I don't see what creates /etc/machine-id
[00:03] <xnox> slangasek: ok. i have one task to fix, i should focus on that =))))
[00:04] <xnox> *sigh* /etc/machine-id is on the livefs image....
[00:04] <slangasek> ok.  what creates it?
[00:04] <xnox> slangasek: looking at the source code systemd-ish something does it.
[00:05] <slangasek> just because systemd upstream has defined this as an interface for a unique ID in no way means we've started supporting it as such
[00:05] <xnox> systemd-machine-id-setup
[00:05] <slangasek> we still have /var/lib/dbus/machine-id as uniqueu
[00:06] <xnox> it uses dbus/machine-id as seed, if there was one.
[00:11] <slangasek> xnox: so in the long term, the installer / live-builder should be updated to handle /etc/machine-id specially, just as /var/lib/dbus/machine-id is currently handled.  In the near term, /etc/machine-id is an irrelevant and unsupported interface. :)
[00:11] <xnox> slangasek: bug against cdimage project?
[00:12] <slangasek> xnox: I still have no idea what is meant to be creating /etc/machine-id, 'systemd-machine-id-setup' isn't part of either the boot scripts or the maintainer scripts
[00:12] <slangasek> xnox: yes
[00:13] <xnox> slangasek: installer is suppose to call systemd-machine-id-setup, otherwise, i guess first caller triggers it's creation....
[00:13] <slangasek> what's the "first caller"?
[00:14] <slangasek> do you mean the first thing that queries the machine ID?
[00:14] <xnox> systemd-firstboot.service , but of course /me is friday trolling
[00:14] <xnox> i'm guessing logind session.
[00:15] <xnox> or same as dbus-uuigen. I'll trace that later. No clue yet, where/how it ends up generated on ubuntu.
[00:17] <juliank> I'd recommend to ask systemd guys or look at more recent systemd code. Given all that booting without /etc stuff they're doing, they probably have newer versions generate that if it is missing
[00:18] <juliank> Might make sense to copy that then
[00:23] <hallyn> xnox: uh oh, i notice that the 0.28-3ubuntu1 cgmanager upstart job has the post-start "initctl ... || true" in exec instead of inside script.  Needs an update?
[00:23] <xnox> hallyn: no, why?
[00:23] <hallyn> oh, i thought there was talk last week of || true not working in a exec
[00:24] <hallyn> if not, excellent
[00:24] <xnox> hallyn: exec -> single line; script / end-script -> multi-line
[00:24] <xnox> hallyn: if upstart spots any special / shell characters in the exec line it runs it through a shell.
[00:25] <xnox> hallyn: i'd like to see it to believe it =) we have extensive tests to make sure e.g. "exec daemond --bar $ARGS" ends up called through a shell.
[00:25] <xnox> to do all the shell variable expansions and magic.
[00:27] <hallyn> xnox: right, i thought in particular "exec somethingorother || true" was what wasn't going to work.  happy to learn i'm wrong.  (had not tested)
[00:29] <calebjosue> i was recommended to join this channel for purposes of knowing where to start with open source projects
[00:32] <xnox> hallyn: hm.... I'm scratching my head now.
[00:32] <xnox> slangasek: hallyn: This fails to start $ echo "pre-start exec false || true" > ~/.config/upstart/hallyn.conf; start hallyn
[00:32] <xnox> but it should.....
[00:45] <slangasek> xnox: eh? why should that successfully start instead of being a parse error?
[00:45] <slangasek> xnox: 'pre-start exec false || true' says "exec() false with the arguments '||' and 'true'"
[00:46] <slangasek> so technically not a parse error, but certainly returns non-zero and should fail
[00:46] <xnox> slangasek: "Any special  characters, e.g. quotes or `$' specified will result in the entire command being passed to a shell for expansion." imho || is special
[00:47] <slangasek> xnox: upstart does its own shell parsing of variables on the exec commandline; I don't see any reason '||' should be regarded as special
[00:48] <xnox> hallyn: i am wrong, and cgmanager jobs need fixing.
[00:58] <xnox> slangasek: about whoopsie id being different for non-root users -> Bug #1351519
[00:59] <slangasek> xnox: ok; that's one reason why the generated id should be cached to the filesystem
[01:00] <xnox> slangasek: and then make whoopsie file recoverable errors upon itself when generated id doesn't match cached one?! =)
[01:00] <slangasek> ...
[01:00]  * xnox is still friday trolling
[01:00] <xnox> slangasek: e.g. tedg files recoverable errors against upstart, when something rather in url-dispatcher (tedg) can't read an sql database....
[01:00] <slangasek> yes, one wonders at your choice of leisure activities
[01:01] <xnox> slangasek: i'd rather tedg stop spaming us =)
[01:01] <slangasek> xnox: I've filed a bug against url-dispatcher for this
[01:01] <slangasek> bug #1350536
[01:02] <xnox> slangasek: number? i'll fix it, cause i believe we shouldn't be generating errors on continues basis. All error reports must be exceptional, not a norm.
[01:02] <slangasek> well, my bug report was about the errors being misfiled
[01:02] <slangasek> which is separate from whether there's a bug in url-dispatcher /triggering/ the problem report
[01:45] <hallyn> xnox: ok, thx, i'll push a fix (but not right now, laptop overheating)
[01:47] <hallyn> xnox: slangasek: so how many upstartu sers do we think we have in debian?  should the upstart job fix for cgmanager go to debian or just to utopic?
[01:48] <slangasek> is there some reason to *not* fix it in Debian? to do otherwise means you get to maintain a delta
[01:48] <xnox> hallyn: all cgmanager updates should go to debain, and just sync to ubuntu.
[01:49] <xnox> (e.g. that's how a lot of core packages are maintained e.g. grub2 is synced from debian, all uploads go into debian)
[01:50] <hallyn> xnox: yeah pitti had made an ubuntu delta this morning, but i do think it can a go to debian
[01:51] <hallyn> i.e. it was a delta that was introduced while 0.28-3 was going into debian, and it failed ot make it into that package (i didn't track them all sufficiently)
[01:52] <hallyn> unfortunately going through debian adds a delay
[01:53] <slangasek> hallyn: yes, but it's not something that should be a delta between the two distros over the long term
[01:54] <hallyn> slangasek: no, not at all - it's just a delta bc i failed to put it into 0.28-3
[05:14] <xnox> Folks please tell me:
[05:14] <xnox> $ adb shell cat /sys/class/android_usb/android0/iSerial
[05:14] <xnox> Need some sample data, to validate a hypothesis =)
[19:19] <ScottK> zul: Please use build1 not ubuntu1 when you're doing no change rebuilds of packages that don't have an Ubuntu diff already.
[20:54] <Noskcaj> Could someone please work on porting ubuntu-system-settings, powerd, and indicator-power to upower 0.99 soon?
[20:56] <Noskcaj> Laney, Since you show up in the changelogs a bit do you know if anyone's working on ^
[21:08] <slangasek> Noskcaj: why is porting required at all?  Shouldn't upower be a stable interface already?
[21:12] <Noskcaj> slangasek, The new (late last year) release of upower drops the suspend API, the SONAME, and changes part of the dbus interface, as well as a few other things.
[21:12] <slangasek> "drops the suspend API" in favor of what?
[21:12] <Noskcaj> gnome, and soon xfce and kde, needs upower 0.99 to function
[21:13] <Noskcaj> slangasek, systemd/logind
[21:13] <slangasek> ok
[21:13] <Noskcaj> bug 1330037
[21:13] <slangasek> and do you know that powerd actually requires porting for any of these changes, vs. a straight rebuild?
[21:14] <slangasek> (ditto u-s-s and indicator-power)
[21:15] <Noskcaj> powerd failed to build last i tried, i'll rebuild those three with their current versions today
[21:15] <Noskcaj> (ditto u-s-s and indicator-power)
[21:15] <Noskcaj> crap
[21:15] <Noskcaj> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/177594528/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.powerd_0.15%2B14.10.20140612-0ubuntu1ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:20] <slangasek> hmm, ok then
[21:21] <slangasek> I'm guessing that for powerd porting you might want sforshee
[21:30] <Noskcaj> powerd is still failing  porting you
[21:31] <Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower/+build/6235759/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.powerd_0.16%2B14.10.20140707-0ubuntu1ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:31] <Noskcaj> Why does hexchat copy anything i select :(
[21:36] <Noskcaj> indicator-power does build fine, but it probable needs some testing, as it does depend on upower
[21:37]  * slangasek nods
[21:38] <Noskcaj> u-s-s https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower/+build/6235765/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.ubuntu-system-settings_0.3%2B14.10.20140801.2-0ubuntu1ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:39] <slangasek> note that, due to the upcoming release-to-manufacturer milestone for Ubuntu Phone, it's likely to at least be a week before anyone is willing to work on this for utopic (basically because we aren't going to want to pull upower 0.99 into the RTM archive)
[21:40] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:40] <Noskcaj> pitti, Any progress on python-dbusmock upower?
[21:41] <Noskcaj> And once this is done, we get the fun of bluez5


[01:47] <akgraner> jcastro you around?
[02:23] <jcastro> mhall119: he told me todayish
[02:23] <jcastro> akgraner: yeah I am now for a second
[02:40] <Ronnie> kim0: the first code is online: https://code.launchpad.net/~ronnie.vd.c/mapuntu/marker_creation  (run ./manage.py bootstrap to get the app configured)
[03:19] <paultag> Oh no!  I've finally got on tonight via my Uni
[03:37] <ScottL> that's gotta be frustrating...i have a hard time imagining being without it
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: the worst part are the emails, just tons and tons
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: it's really rough
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: It's been on and off for about 2 months now
[03:37] <paultag> they keep blaming everything on other things
[03:37] <paultag> "It's the signal level!"

[03:37] <paultag> "It's your router!"
[03:37] <paultag> "We don't support Linux!"
[03:38] <ScottL> if you are paying for it, then they should prorate your bill for the time you weren't able to use it
[03:38] <paultag> Gawd.  If they could *just* get a stable line into the house, they'd be fine
[03:38] <paultag> ScottL: yeah, for sure
[03:38] <ScottL> when i had internet through cable at the old house i had that problem
[03:38] <paultag> ScottL: it's a nightmare
[03:38] <ScottL> every two-three months i wouldn't be able to connect
[03:39] <ScottL> they'd send a guy out and he'd boost the signal
[03:39] <ScottL> i bitched and bitched about it
[03:39] <ScottL> i got a few bills half off or so
[03:39] <paultag> ScottL: our router has gone into failure-cycle mode. It will work for a bit of time, then just start rebooting in a loop over and over
[03:39] <paultag> ScottL: yeah, well that's good at least
[03:39] <ScottL> eventually they replaced all the cable lines by the road on my road :P
[03:39] <paultag> ScottL: t-w is a bear to work with
[03:39] <paultag> hahahaha
[03:39] <paultag> sorry, modem
[03:39] <paultag> not router
[03:39] <paultag> our router is fine
[03:41] <paultag> ScottL: but, good news is that i've used my downtime well. I have a few nifty proof of concept apps that use libs that I had docs on offline at the time :)
[03:41] <ScottL> hah, good deal :)
[03:41] <paultag> but computers are *useless* without internet
[03:41] <ScottL> *sigh* pretty much
[03:42] <paultag> ScottL: anywho, how's things? How's ubuntu-studio? I feel like crap because I've not been able to get to the project
[03:42] <ScottL> luckily at our new house (~2 years) we have underground utilities so they don't go down usually
[03:42] <paultag> did someone fill in my loss to get stuff done?
[03:42] <paultag> ScottL: nice! :)
[03:42] <paultag> ScottL: a tree took ours down (it's what started all this crap)
[03:42] <ScottL> paultag, no, -controls are still hanging but it's really okay because this stacks 11.10 to be HUGE
[03:42] <paultag> truth
[03:43] <paultag> well good news is -controls is 99% there
[03:43] <ScottL> we can't use gnome2 anymore, and probably won't use gnome3 or unity
[03:43] <ScottL> we might be moving to xfce
[03:43] <ScottL> we'll have a new UI
[03:43] <paultag> ScottL: solid move, I think Xfce would be great for that
[03:43] <paultag> I'd use fluxbox, but i'm biased :)
[03:43] <paultag> really biased :)
[03:43] <ScottL> the latest kernel can thread irq's to avoid conflicts
[03:43] <paultag> ScottL: for -rt?
[03:43] <ScottL> cory is back helping with a few things
[03:43] <paultag> nice!!
[03:44] <ScottL> paultag, no -generic can handle irq's now
[03:44] <ScottL> :)
[03:44] <paultag> solid! :)
[03:44] <ScottL> we're trying to get the -lowlatency into the repos for this release
[03:44] <paultag> oh, right, ll
[03:44] <ScottL> like i said, it's a LOT of stuff moving for 11.10 :)
[03:44] <paultag> ScottL: I hear ya!
[03:44] <paultag> ScottL: we should hit like half it it within the first few months, IMHO
[03:45] <paultag> most of it's lined up tight and it would let us bugfix when ubuntu makes the changes that will break all our hard work ;)
[03:45] <paultag> rather then integrate and bugfix :)
[03:47] <ScottL> there's still a lot of lining up things and making decisions
[03:47] <paultag> true.
[03:47] <ScottL> i'm glad cory's helping a bit because he will help push things through
[03:47] <paultag> for sure
[03:47] <ScottL> the only trouble currently is our new art lead seems to be MIA :(
[03:48] <paultag> crud
[03:48] <ScottL> which may work out well with cory being more involved *shrug*
[03:48] <paultag> I feel bad to be stacked up as MIA as well
[03:48] <paultag> ScottL: aye
[03:48] <ScottL> paultag, well i've sent several emails but haven't heard anything back for weeks now :/
[03:48] <paultag> oh jeez
[03:49] <paultag> ScottL: anyone know him IRL that might know if he's avoiding or actually MIA?
[03:49] <ScottL> not that i know, i'll try a few other vectors to get in touch and if that doesn't work, then i'll send the "if i don't hear from you..." email
[03:50] <paultag> ScottL: aye
[03:50] <paultag> ScottL: what's his IRC nick?
[03:50] <ScottL> it's just kinda embarrassing to have posted about it several places and then have to backtrack
[03:50] <ScottL> paultag, lol, i can't even remember right now
[03:50] <paultag> hahaha
[03:50] <paultag> ScottL: you can always check up on nickserv to see if he's been on IRC
[03:50]  * ScottL is taking muscle relaxers for his neck and feeling pretty darn tired to boot
[03:50] <paultag> ScottL: get offline, I know how that is, typing ain't helping :)
[03:51] <ScottL> oh, and he missed our team meeting as well during this time
[03:51] <paultag> ScottL: I'll be back on soon.  Have you looked into someone to step in as an "interm" lead?
[03:52] <ScottL> i think cory will do it anyways
[03:52] <paultag> righto
[04:08] <paultag> BBL, heading home
[04:08] <paultag> one love
[05:42] <mhall119> pleia2: now I want ropa vieja :(
[05:46] <mhall119> instead I will go to sleep
[06:59] <jono> anyone around?
[07:15] <AlanBell> morning jono
[07:19] <jono> hey AlanBell
[07:20] <AlanBell> 130 tickets gone for oggcamp already http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com/
[07:49] <nigelb> hello :)
[07:51] <dpm> good morning all
[07:52] <nigelb> hello dpm :)
[07:53] <dpm> hey nigelb :)
[08:01] <nigelb> 35
[08:01] <nigelb> bah
[08:49] <duanedesign> morning all
[08:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:56] <dpm> heya dholbach!
[08:57] <dholbach> hey dpm
[09:01] <nigelb> hey duanedesign, dholbach
[09:01] <dholbach> hi nigelb
[09:05] <kim0> morning o/
[09:06] <kim0> howdy fellas .. dholbach dpm nigelb
[09:07] <dholbach> hey kim0
[09:07] <dpm> hey kim0!
[09:09] <nigelb> howdy kim0 :)
[15:11] <paultag> morning, all
[15:15] <Ronnie> ping kim0
[15:16] <Ronnie> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8000/ <= running new mapuntu code (warning, can be slow, due django development server)
[15:31] <dholbach> akgraner, dpm: sorry - I guess I pinged you both about the announce :)
[15:31] <dholbach> hope we can sort this out and not post it twice? :)
[15:31] <akgraner> no worries....I am posting it now :-)
[15:31] <dholbach> dpm, you're almost done, right?
[15:31] <dholbach> oh ok :-)
[15:32] <dpm> dholbach, about to press publish, but I can leave it if akgraner publishes it
[15:32] <dpm> no worries
[15:32] <akgraner> dpm, go aheand hit publish :-)
[15:32] <akgraner> ahead even :-)
[15:32] <dholbach> in any case I'm a happy man now
[15:32] <akgraner> yay!
[15:32] <dpm> ok :)
[15:33] <dholbach> thanks a lot to both of you
[15:37] <dpm> dholbach, akgraner -> http://ubuntu-news.org/
[15:37] <dholbach> EXCELLENT
[15:38] <akgraner> coolie
[15:39] <popey> yay
[15:48] <nigelb> dholbach: ping?
[15:48] <dholbach> nigelb, pong
[15:48] <nigelb> dholbach: can I pm?
[15:48] <dholbach> sure
[15:50] <kim0> Ronnie: Nice work man!
[15:50] <kim0> Ronnie: I just added a marker .. where did it go on the map ?
[15:52] <Ronnie> kim0: did you point a marker on the map, in the submit form?
[15:53] <kim0> Ronnie: I fill the form .. click "create marker"
[15:54] <kim0> Ronnie: pretty much nothing happens ? or I cant see it
[15:54] <Ronnie> the error about latitude/longitude is not shown, because these fields are hidden
[15:55] <kim0> Ronnie: what am I doing wrong
[15:56] <Ronnie> did you fill in all the fields, AND clicked a location on the map (do you see the map on the bottom of the form)
[15:56] <Ronnie> ah, we have an extra point
[15:56] <Ronnie> an server in utah
[15:57] <cjohnston> Ronnie: my server isn't where I am... How do I mark that?
[15:57] <Ronnie> cjohnston: what do you mean?
[15:57] <cjohnston> I am in florida, but my server is in texas...
[15:57] <kim0> wrong geoip
[15:57] <cjohnston> if I click do by my ip, it wont work right
[15:58] <mhall119> cjohnston: so stop proxying long enough to get it right
[15:58] <cjohnston> I don't proxy..
[15:59] <Ronnie> cjohnston: you can move the marker manually
[15:59] <mhall119> your ip is geoip resolving to texas?
[15:59] <cjohnston> no.. it would resolve to orlando mhall119
[15:59] <mhall119> oh wait, server, nevermind
[15:59]  * mhall119 needs more coffee this morning
[15:59] <jono> dholbach, jcastro, dpm, kim0 all set?
[15:59] <dholbach> yes
[16:00] <cjohnston> Ronnie: how do i move it
[16:00] <kim0> yeah
[16:00] <dpm> jono, yep
[16:00] <Technoviking> loving Chrome-unstable globalmenu
[16:00] <Ronnie> cjohnston: atm you can only create new markers, not update/change
[16:01] <jono> dholbach, ring ring
[16:02] <dholbach> I accepted the call
[16:02] <dholbach> but can't hear you
[16:02] <cjohnston> you just said i could move the marker manually :-P
[16:02] <dholbach> oh skype froze!
[16:02] <cjohnston> Can you hear me now? Bad
[16:02] <Ronnie> cjohnston: you can when you creating a new marker, when you submitted, its 'fixed' (for now)
[16:03] <cjohnston> When I go to /hit nothing happens for me anyway
[16:03] <jono> kim0, are you on skype?
[16:03] <kim0> yeah
[16:03] <kim0> just call
[16:03] <kim0> skype is eventual consistency :)
[16:05] <jono> kim0, it keeps disconnecting
[16:05] <kim0> killing it
[16:06] <jcastro> Daviey: we can deploy today?
[16:07] <jono> jcastro, can you mute yourself, can hear typing
[16:07] <kim0> dholbach: nice so skype froze for both of us
[16:07] <dholbach> kim0, it sucks - I think that's since the skype update in natty
[16:07] <kim0> @skype die die die :)
[16:07] <nigelb> haha
[16:07] <jcastro> jono: whoops, sorry
[16:08] <nigelb> we should rename this channel to #ubuntu-skype-haters
[16:08]  * kim0 joins the skype fest
[16:08] <Daviey> jcastro, yes - ok.
[16:09] <Ronnie> cjohnston: /hit does not work in the new version
[16:16] <jcastro> Daviey: ok so theoretically once the slots are made it should start populating right?
[16:19] <mhall119> Daviey: are we going to deploy summit now that you've had a full night's sleep?
[16:20] <Daviey> heh
[16:20] <nigelb> lol
[16:21] <nigelb> mhall119: Nice conditions :p
[16:21] <nigelb> someday I should put in enough work into summit and beg for commit access :P
[16:25] <mhall119> Daviey: hold on
[16:31] <mhall119> Daviey: okay, rev 77 of summit trunk is now South 0.6.2 compatible
[16:35] <manish> nigelb: ping
[16:38] <jono> jcastro, FYI, there will now be a Hardware track too
[16:38] <jono> jcastro, Vic is going to ping you about how to get sessions on it
[16:38] <jcastro> ok
[16:39] <jcastro> I can make that now
[16:39] <jcastro> vic is lead I take it?
[16:39] <jcastro> If I put him down as Vic Rattlehead would he be mad?
[16:40] <jono> jcastro, not sure, ak him
[16:40] <jono> hehe
[16:40] <nigelb> haha
[16:41] <nigelb> jcastro: what did you put down jono as? Mr. Metal?
[16:41] <nigelb> :)
[17:04] <dholbach> alrightie - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!
[17:04] <popey> o/
[17:29] <jcastro> popey: do we have an example of an ideal membership application?
[17:29] <popey> ideal or exceptional?
[17:30] <jcastro> both would be great
[17:30] <jcastro> I don't want people to think that exceptional is the standard
[17:30] <jcastro> if I had to rewrite one to be exceptional I would just give up. :)
[17:30] <popey> if the wiki ever responds I'll tell you
[17:30] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/leoquant
[17:30] <jcastro> this one looks good
[17:33] <jcastro> man this is hard!
[17:35] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs
[17:35] <popey> thats quite nice
[17:36] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/drubin also
[17:37] <vish> THE BEST!! » https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JorgeCastro
[17:37]  * vish hides
[17:37] <vish> thats like this guy needs no intro :)
[17:38] <popey> Who is that chancer!?
[17:38]  * popey deletes the page
[17:38] <popey> a stain on our wiki!
[17:45] <mhall119> jcastro: I made a membership application template back when I applied
[17:46] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MembershipTemplate
[17:47] <vish> mhall119: it is actually great that there is a lp user ~you ;)
[17:52] <vish> nice template, we could probably add a link to that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[18:18] <mhall119> vish: it's funny, there wasn't a ~you when I made the template
[18:32] <cjohnston> jcastro: http://uds.ubuntu.com/travel/  the "If you are not a Canonical..." sentence needs help. ;-)
[18:49] <jcastro> on it
[18:53] <jcastro> Daviey: you broke summit
[18:53]  * jcastro whistles
[18:59] <Daviey> jcastro, you did!
[19:00] <jcastro> dang
[19:00] <jcastro> one of my fish died
[19:00] <jcastro> I don't want to go dig him outta there
[19:00] <jcastro> it's my sucker fish, so I just know he's full of putrid death
[19:01] <Daviey> :(
[19:18] <jcastro> ok that wasn't so bad
[19:18] <jcastro> Daviey: my puppet shirt got here
[19:18] <jcastro> Daviey: I coined their slogan so luke sent me a shirt
[19:23] <Daviey> jcastro, wtf
[19:24] <Daviey> jcastro, get me a t-shirt.. kkthnxbye
[19:26] <jcastro> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4584318186/puppet-shirts
[19:26] <jcastro> Daviey: :D :D :D
[19:30] <manish> jcastro: ping
[19:30] <jcastro> hi
[19:30] <manish> I have been shortlisted for UDS sponsorship
[19:31] <manish> I dont think I have time left plus I am moving my house in 1st week of May
[19:31] <manish> jcastro: so can I be removed from the waitlist queue?
[19:31] <jcastro> sure
[19:31] <jcastro> there's always next time!
[19:31] <manish> yes
[19:31] <manish> Thanks
[19:39] <jcastro> jono: next time you have a call with the managers can you remind them to approve sessions for UDS?
[19:39] <jcastro> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-o
[19:39] <jcastro> this is the list so far
[20:05] <Daviey> jcastro, with help from mhall119, blueprints are now importing
[20:05] <jcastro> \o/ \o/ \o/
[20:05] <Daviey> auto scheduling is disabled, as i don't think enough people would have marked themselves as required to make it worth it
[20:05] <Daviey> only 9 blueprints so far, anyway
[20:05] <jcastro> ok so give me like a day or two to make the track leads accept a bunch
[20:06] <jcastro> and then we can kick it on
[20:06] <Daviey> server ones will start coming in soon btw
[20:06] <jcastro> <3
[20:06] <jcastro> I like how you roll
[20:06] <mhall119> nigelb: your /today/ code is live now too, not that you'll see anything today
[20:07] <jcastro> the QR code is AWESOME
[20:07] <AlanBell> squillions of rooms again
[20:10] <AlanBell> are any sessions in yet?
[20:10] <jcastro> nope
[20:10] <jcastro> need to get the track leads accepting some
[21:33] <mhall119> jcastro: did you try the qrcode?
[21:33]  * mhall119 doesn't have a smartphone yet :(
[21:34] <jcastro> yeah it worked awesome
[21:34] <jcastro> took me right to the conventionist app
[21:35] <AlanBell> anyone got the showimages plugin working in etherpad?
[21:40] <mhall119> FYI, that qrcode is going to be changing
[21:49] <jcastro> mhall119: changing to what?
[21:56] <mhall119> jcastro: they're re-branding themselves from "Conventionist" to "Guidebook", complete with a new QR Code
[21:57] <mhall119> Daviey: jcastro: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/guidebook-rebrand/+merge/57591
[21:57] <jcastro> ah
[22:01] <akgraner> ohhh so we are going to use conventionist at UDS?  yay!
[22:01] <akgraner> I <3 that app  :-)
[22:04] <mhall119> akgraner: yup!
[22:05] <mhall119> akgraner: http://summit.ubuntu.com/mobile/
[22:10] <akgraner> mhall119, should he guide be there now?
[22:10] <akgraner> cause I am not seeing it in my list of guides
[22:22] <Daviey> mhall119, nice
[22:48] <Technoviking> not see guide either


[01:19] <falktx> ScottL: i'm back, do you have some time now?
[01:19] <falktx> I started working on the new -controls thing
[01:26] <ailo> falktx: There was some discussion earlier about how to implement installing a new kernel and adding user to audio group.
[01:26] <falktx> ailo: oh, cool
[01:26] <ailo> One of the ideas was to implement it into the installation of Ubuntustudio, or Ubuntustudio packages
[01:27] <ailo> How far did you come on the controls?
[01:27] <falktx> hm, kernel might work, but not sure how to add a user to audio if running as root (no way to tell which is the current user)
[01:28] <falktx> ailo: well, for that, I have good news and bad news
[01:28] <falktx> ailo: which first?
[01:28] <ailo> I don't judge.
[01:28] <falktx> you may consider both good news, not sure
[01:28] <falktx> let me make some screenshots
[01:30] <rlameiro> are you making the controls in Qt?
[01:30] <falktx> rlameiro: yes
[01:30] <falktx> kinda
[01:30] <rlameiro> hummm well, it easier :D
[01:30] <falktx> rlameiro: do you know about my patchbay project ?
[01:30] <rlameiro> klaudia?
[01:31] <rlameiro> I can try to help you on the controls..
[01:31] <rlameiro> I did ported it to gtkbuilder
[01:31] <rlameiro> from glade
[01:32] <falktx> rlameiro: i prefer to start from scratch
[01:32] <falktx> rlameiro: ailo: recent screenshot of my patchbay app -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr105.jpg
[01:32] <rlameiro> falktx: yeah, of course
[01:33] <rlameiro> but you can take ideas from the project already done
[01:33] <falktx> rlameiro: yes
[01:33] <falktx> so let's start with the good news
[01:33] <ailo> falktx: I saw it before. Looks nice.
[01:33] <rlameiro> nice!!!!
[01:33] <falktx> this is the good news:
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr103.jpg
[01:34] <rlameiro> it looks a mix of patchage with controls :D
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr104.jpg
[01:34] <falktx> rlameiro: ailo: ^ this is my version of -controls, that is not mockup, but the start of the app design
[01:34] <rlameiro> That is more or less my first idea :D
[01:35] <ailo> falktx: Looks nice
[01:36] <falktx> now the "bad" news
[01:36] <rlameiro> :(
[01:36] <falktx> it won't be part of UbuntuStudio
[01:36] <rlameiro> why?
[01:36] <rlameiro> because its Qt?
[01:36] <falktx> I'll develop to continue my idea of the next kxstudio
[01:37] <falktx> this app will integrate into my other app, like the patchbay, in a all-in-one jack solution
[01:37] <falktx> I already have the patchbay, a jack-logs viewer, jack-render app, and a gui to configure jack
[01:38] <ailo> falktx: How about making a simplified version for Ubuntustudio?
[01:38] <falktx> If I join some work I've already done for kxstudio, I'm guessing the app will be very cool
[01:38] <falktx> ailo: my plan is to create an app that will work on any distro, any version of linux
[01:38] <ailo> ok
[01:39] <rlameiro> yea
[01:39] <rlameiro> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg
[01:39] <falktx> ailo: If I worked close to US, than only ubuntu would benefit from it
[01:39] <rlameiro> here is stated "linux distributiono" bla bla bla
[01:39] <rlameiro> soo its made thinking on that :D
[01:39] <falktx> yes
[01:39] <rlameiro> falktx: not necessarily
[01:40] <rlameiro> it your software
[01:40] <falktx> ailo: all my code is gpl, and all the modules are in different files, so it will be very easy to implement them on new apps
[01:40] <rlameiro> Also diferent distro have diferent place to setup stuff, so everyone would need to adapt it to each distro
[01:40] <falktx> rlameiro: that's where it comes in
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: I already have a team setup to help in this
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: first step is to handle jack properly in all DEs (mostly gnome, kde and xcfe)
[01:41] <rlameiro> Qt works well
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/
[01:42] <rlameiro> is that an invite? falktx ?
[01:42] <falktx> rlameiro: just say 'yes' if you wanna join
[01:42] <rlameiro> yes
[01:42] <rlameiro> :)
[01:42] <rlameiro> lol
[01:42] <falktx> rlameiro: give me the link to your launchpad page
[01:42] <rlameiro> everything for the good to the community
[01:43] <rlameiro> https://launchpad.net/~rlameiro
[01:45] <falktx> rlameiro: done, you're on the team now
[01:45] <rlameiro> :)
[01:45] <falktx> rlameiro: I'll publish some docs about the team tasks soon... ;)
[01:46] <rlameiro> ok
[01:46] <falktx> rlameiro: afaik, everytime I do a package upload, you'll get a mail about it
[01:46] <rlameiro> falktx: take in mind that my main task on US is testing...
[01:46] <rlameiro> I am on the process of learning C and python
[01:47] <rlameiro> and also playing around with ARM
[01:47] <falktx> rlameiro: don't worry, I plan to do most of the work
[01:47] <rlameiro> lol
[01:47] <ailo> falktx: Is there some place where one can see what you are planning to do?
[01:47] <falktx> rlameiro: but AutoStatic joined the team too, so he will help in packaging too
[01:47] <rlameiro> falktx: you should make an Amazon wishlist dude
[01:47] <holstein> i get emails when falktx is hard at work
[01:48] <holstein> package updates :)
[01:48] <falktx> hehe, sorry for that holstein
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: no, i like it
[01:48] <falktx> holstein: did you get the new ones about patchage, raul, etc?
[01:48] <rlameiro> well, then we need to clarify what is needed for the new Studio controls
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: i think so
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: they just kinda go by
[01:48] <rlameiro> at least for now...
[01:48] <falktx> ailo: rlameiro: this is an old doc I made some time ago - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/KXStudio-Team.odt (outdated!)
[01:48] <holstein> and im starting to know what the packages are
[01:48] <holstein> and what they do
[01:50] <ailo> falktx: office document? Was empty.
[01:50] <falktx> ailo: no, it's not...
[01:50] <falktx> ailo: i just opened it
[01:51] <holstein> yeah
[01:51] <holstein> ailo: you trying OO.o ?
[01:52] <ailo> hostein: I think its' firefox 4 on Natty. It won't open magnet links either. I have to download files before I can open them. Same thing here.
[01:52] <holstein> yeah, plausible
[01:52] <holstein> FF4 is nice though
[01:52] <rlameiro> very nice
[01:52] <holstein> faster again
[01:52] <rlameiro> falktx: what control modules do you have?
[01:52] <rlameiro> maybe i can hack something for natty...
[01:52] <falktx> holstein: lol, you remind me of mythbusters...
[01:53] <holstein> ;)
[01:53] <falktx> rlameiro: right now (the code already done or that I can copy) is...
[01:53] <falktx> jack-config
[01:53] <falktx> jack-logs
[01:53] <falktx> jack-patchbay
[01:53] <falktx> audio-plugins-path
[01:53] <falktx> default-applications
[01:54] <falktx> user-groups
[01:54] <falktx> firewire/ hpet, rtc permissions
[01:54] <falktx> hm...
[01:54] <ScottL> falktx, yes i have time :)
[01:54] <ailo> falktx: I was told you were doing something unifying. (I would like to help in that respect.)
[01:54] <falktx> ScottL: oh, please read backlog
[01:55] <rlameiro> ok, so maybe i will need is the jack config ans the firewire  and hpet etc...
[01:55] <falktx> ailo: "unifying" ?
[01:55] <ailo> Not distro dependant.
[01:55] <rlameiro> unificador falktx
[01:55] <falktx> rlameiro: one hany thing not done yet is wine/wineasio stuff
[01:56] <falktx> ailo: yes, the document clears a few things
[01:56] <rlameiro> falktx: no problem, i dont think it is a very important
[01:56] <rlameiro> if it is ppa based you can roll out updates easily
[01:56] <falktx> rlameiro: I want to make it compatible with winetricks, so that useful dlls can be easily installed
[01:57] <falktx> rlameiro: the PPA is just for packaging, I really dont want to force these new tools for ubuntu-only
[01:57] <falktx> at least they should on debian too... hehe
[01:57] <rlameiro> falktx: I am talking for testing :D
[01:58] <falktx> rlameiro: ha, yes
[01:58] <falktx> rlameiro: in fact, the new PPAs are almost ready!
[01:58] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa
[01:58] <ScottL> falktx, that's cool that your work on -controls won't be part of ubuntu studio
[01:59] <ScottL> falktx, i think ailo and paultag are going to make some good progress together
[01:59] <ScottL> falktx, have you made any progress on getting ladish into debian?
[02:00] <falktx> ScottL: as soon as it gets beta, I'll try to push it to debian
[02:00] <ScottL> falktx, excellent!
[02:00] <falktx> ScottL: on ladish progress, I need some help
[02:00] <ScottL> falktx, oh?  is it something quadrispro can help with?
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, i forgot i told you i would find some links for you to help get ladish into debian, i'll try to find those tonight/tomorrow morning
[02:01] <falktx> ScottL: yes
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, the debian multimedia team is really good giving feedback when you post to their git and send email to the mailing list
[02:01] <falktx> ScottL: i think I told you before, I already have the package in revu
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, i mean they are awesome!
[02:02] <ScottL> falktx, yes, but REVU moves extremely slow compared to DMT, you will probably receive a reply email within 24 hours on the DMT mailing list
[02:02] <falktx> ScottL: yep, I think I'll never use revu again
[02:03] <ScottL> falktx, i can only surmise that it works for *something*, but apparently not very well for audio centric packages
[02:03] <ailo> What's the deal with debian. Abstractions (tasksels and settings) stay in Ubuntu, but all the individual packages go to Debian?
[02:04] <ScottL> ailo, no, it's not really a hard, fast rule...at least for audio packages
[02:04] <ScottL> it's more a logistical consideration
[02:04] <rlameiro> time to sleep
[02:04] <rlameiro> cya tomorrow
[02:04] <ScottL> they have mad packages and developers who work packages super aggresively and rapidly
[02:04] <ScottL> goodnight rlameiro
[02:05] <ScottL> s/packages/packagers
[02:05] <ScottL> ailo, and they have quite a number of packagers/developers as well
[02:05] <ScottL> and by "they" i mean the debian multimedia team (DMT)
[02:05] <ailo> So, you guys don't think you'll move to Debian entirely with time?
[02:06] <ScottL> ailo, one last thing: every release, all packages that are not in ubuntu will sync automatically from debian into ubuntu
[02:06] <ScottL> ailo, re: move to debian, i suppose it's a possibility :/
[02:07] <ScottL> ailo, and i suppose it depends on which direction shuttleworth keeps pushing ubuntu and whether it's more direct or less troublesome with debian (?)
[02:07] <ailo> ScottL: I don't suppose Ubuntu will become too one-minded?
[02:08] <ScottL> ailo, i consider it a real possibility within several releases
[02:08] <ailo> Debian seems like a safe haven.
[02:08] <falktx> ubuntu likes to break the rules
[02:08] <falktx> debian/rules, hehe
[02:09] <ScottL> i think mark wants to make something _different_ than other linux distros, to stand apart from the others, and directed toward the masses
[02:09] <falktx> ScottL: i think mark just wants to imitate Mac
[02:09] <ailo> ScottL: That seems to have been one of its strengths. Now perhaps Ubuntu is movin towards tablets.
[02:09] <ScottL> eh, i'm not that sure about that, but i could be wrong falktx
[02:10] <falktx> ScottL: he, the notify-osd, globalmenu, and bunch of other stuff that are just ripped off mac's
[02:10] <ailo> But Ubuntu should make two flavors, classic and new
[02:10] <ScottL> ailo, but i think they will still offer a desktop release, but it may be buried under layers of "improvements" as to be very difficult to make an audio distro
[02:11] <falktx> ailo: from time to time I began to feel the need to look for other distros
[02:11] <falktx> but the PPAs are just the greatest thing...
[02:11] <ScottL> but to be forthcoming, fixing unity xsession really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal at this time
[02:12] <ailo> ScottL: falktx: Audio devs need to have a common face and a common goal on the basic system.
[02:12] <ScottL> mark has done a lot of things different, launchpad instead of a normal git repo, not contributing to kernel, gnome as much, unity and wayland vs gnome
[02:12] <ScottL> i really doubt he'll simply copy the mac
[02:13] <ScottL> ailo, that would really help audio work i believe
[02:13] <falktx> hm...
[02:13] <ailo> Ubuntu is big, so a unified kernel would not be bad
[02:14] <ailo> Who is talking with the linux kernel devs about audio issues?
[02:14] <ScottL> i fully believe we will get the -lowlatency kernel into the repositories, just may be in natty+1
[02:14] <ScottL> ailo, i believe abogani keeps up with upstream
[02:15] <ScottL> i don't know how much "discourse" occurs, he may only read posts and mailing lists
[02:15] <ScottL> ailo, what would you like to see different in the kernel for audio?
[02:16] <ailo> Just thinking about this cgroups thing
[02:16] <ailo> No one was prepared
[02:17] <ailo> It could be good to have an alternative kernel in the repo (or a couple) and let distros be based outside of Ubuntu.
[02:18] <ailo> So, the kernel syncs with all the other system stuff, like graphic drivers (don't know so much, other than that there have been problems in the past).
[02:18] <ailo> The -lowlatency is gold
[02:18] <ailo> An -rt kernel on top of that would be platinum
[02:19] <ailo> Debian seems to be the place for software packages
[02:19] <ailo> Maybe desktop setups is a place for PPA's?
[02:20] <ailo> (I mean PPA's being the place for Desktop Setups)
[02:20] <ailo> Puredune, Tango Studio, KXStudio, Ubuntustudio... same kernel, but different settings
[02:20] <ailo> Might as well be
[02:22] <ailo> What is the best strategy for the future?
[02:22] <ailo> After putting all packages into Debian, the move to Debian won't be so difficult.
[02:22] <ailo> If needed
[02:24] <falktx> ailo: have you heard of the new kernel-for-multimedia thing?
[02:24] <ailo> No
[02:24]  * holstein reading about http://liquorix.net/
[02:26] <falktx> ailo: ha, holstein got it, http://liquorix.net/
[02:26] <ailo> falktx: I did read about it at one time
[02:27] <ailo> falktx: How does it work with Ubuntu?
[02:27] <holstein> falktx: OH, i thought you had a different project to link :)
[02:27] <holstein> i wouldnt have stolen it from you
[02:28] <holstein> i was just literally reading about that in the browser
[02:28] <ailo> Debian sid, aha
[02:29] <ailo> And arch..
[02:29] <falktx> ailo: i can easily rebuild that stuff in PPAs
[02:29] <falktx> ailo: using the exact same configs and sources
[02:29] <falktx> anyone interested?
[02:29] <holstein> falktx: i'll try it
[02:30] <holstein> i was thinking about trying it in squeeze
[02:30] <ailo> falktx: Do you know what is the deal with that? Is it like the -lowlatency?
[02:30] <falktx> holstein: i think I'll push it to the kernel PPA
[02:30] <falktx> ailo: I have no idea...
[02:30] <ailo> I tried Debian with -rt once. Don't remember if I tried this one
[02:31] <ailo> Got kernel panic
[02:31] <ailo> It was a short marriage
[02:31] <ailo> But maybe such a project should be encouraged
[02:31] <falktx> well, I'll try to package it now!
[02:33] <ailo> falktx: How do you feel about communicating about long-term stuff with other audio distro friends?
[02:34] <falktx> ailo: i spoke with linux mint guys about making an audio distro and join with kxstudio, they rejected
[02:34] <falktx> ailo: i spoke with GMaq from avlinux too, but he's into debian
[02:34] <falktx> 64studio is dead
[02:35] <falktx> other distros are just crappy, and many stole my work (dreamstudio...)
[02:36] <falktx> the only good audio distros I see now are avlinux and kxstudio
[02:36] <falktx> no offense to US, but it's has it's issues
[02:36]  * falktx believes in honesty
[02:36] <ailo> I was pretty happy with puredyne. It's XFCE, though
[02:36] <ailo> Karmic -rt kernel
[02:36] <falktx> ailo: oh, but I consider that has "live" distro only, not really for install
[02:37] <ailo> They do install too
[02:37] <falktx> like gnuguitar ?
[02:37] <ailo> And you can have it live on usb, and still install packages, add users
[02:37] <falktx> nice
[02:37] <ailo> It's the best I've tried in that sence
[02:37] <ailo> Except for having to put up with XFCE, which is buggy on some platforms, I think
[02:38] <ailo> They had an alternative wm, nothing on, except access to a terminal, pretty much
[02:39] <ailo> To make the live-usb, you would probably need to have Karmic installed. Otherwise the script doesn't seem to work
[02:40] <ailo> falktx: How do you solve jack remembering which card is chosen after reboot?
[02:41] <falktx> ailo: jackdbus does that by default
[02:41] <falktx> ailo: but I have an option to load a specifc ladish studio at login, which also does this
[02:42] <falktx> the new GUI (-controls alternative) will also have this
[02:42] <ailo> It does? How is that started? I asked this question on lau, and some jack people didnt give me this answer, strangely enough.
[02:43] <ailo> I mean, on the previous question
[02:43] <falktx> ailo: jack is started pre-kde, before kde even starts
[02:43] <falktx> ailo: kde allows this (running scripts before kde itself)
[02:44] <ailo> I guess I should give it a try :)
[02:45] <falktx> ailo: the new app should be able to this in all DEs, not just kde
[02:45] <falktx> I hope gnome supports this
[02:45] <ScottL> i think one strong division between ubuntu and ubuntu studio is that ubuntu tends to focus on a new user experience on the desktop
[02:45] <ScottL> rather than keeping a stable base and only updating applications and providing function over form
[02:46] <ailo> falktx: I am like rlameiro, only learning to code. I know a little this and that. How could I be of help in your project?
[02:47] <falktx> ailo: looking for how to implment stuff on gnome
[02:47] <falktx> ailo: the pre-session script start for example
[02:47] <ailo> You can find me on https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at
[02:48] <ailo> I'm interested in two things. Basic system compatibility, and ease of use.
[02:48] <falktx> 24 karma
[02:48] <ailo> Yes, funny
[02:48] <falktx> ailo: so you wanna join too?
[02:48] <ailo> Sure. I am looking to get more involved.
[02:49]  * falktx has 26370 of karma
[02:49] <falktx> ailo: thanks!!
[02:49] <falktx> i love when people say things like this..!
[02:49] <ailo> I'm staying with US too, though, at least for this release. I am doing mostly testing, and finding results.
[02:50] <falktx> ailo: to be honest...
[02:50] <falktx> ailo: I hope to drop kxstudio soon and help US instead
[02:50] <falktx> this is a nice way to move users, without loosing anything
[02:52] <ailo> Well, I'm just looking to get involved, as I said.
[02:52] <falktx> well, I appreciate
[02:53] <falktx> ScottL: ailo: btw, we (team) have a mailing list, so it would be nice for you to join (https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/ -> bottom left)
[02:59] <ailo> falktx: I see you've started packaging for Natty.
[02:59] <falktx> ailo: yes, but it has some issues
[03:00] <falktx> ailo: python and fltk packages FTBFS
[03:00] <ailo> New versions?
[03:01] <falktx> ailo: not sure for fltk, but python error come from ubuntu
[03:01] <falktx> heh, in liquorix changelog -> "remove cfs-low-latency features - performs worse with 2.6.37 backports"
[03:01] <ailo> ?
[03:02] <ailo> falktx: Do you compile kernels at any point? You seem to be pretty busy otherwise.
[03:02] <falktx> ailo: no, I only compiled a kernel once
[03:03] <falktx> ailo: I'm busy with learning new code, and making "cadence" (that new tool)
[03:03] <falktx> ailo: i take some time sometime I package backports now
[03:03] <falktx> err, one "I" by mistake
[03:04] <falktx> hm, I need to sleep
[03:04] <ailo> Good night.
[03:04] <falktx> ailo: not yet
[03:05] <falktx> i said I needed to sleep, not that I was going to.. heeh
[03:05] <ailo> Well, let us all know when you will :)
[03:06] <falktx> sure
[03:06] <falktx> :)
[03:06] <falktx> ailo: I'm finishing the import of the liquorix kernel
[03:09] <falktx> arr, damn, failed
[03:09] <ailo> falktx: It will lack some Ubuntu stuff, right? What is the diff?
[03:10] <falktx> ailo: my internet sucks, so I was viewing it through SSH
[03:10] <falktx> ailo: but I noticed a lot of patches
[03:10] <falktx> it seems like cfs and bfs enabled
[03:11] <falktx> cgroups too
[03:12] <paultag> ScottL: I'm here to get dirty, man.
[03:12] <paultag> RE make progress ( and so on )
[03:15] <ailo> falktx: I think it's this that would have caused no realtime: # CONFIG_BLK_CGROUP is not set
[03:16] <ailo> No, sorry
[03:16] <ailo> falktx: # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set
[03:19] <falktx> ailo: I'm not the best guy for these kind of questions...
[03:19] <falktx> ailo: and I already closed SSH, so I can't check now
[03:19] <falktx> but...
[03:21] <ailo> According to jack's faq, it is (I think)..
[03:22] <falktx> ailo: http://liquorix.net/sources/36/
[03:22] <falktx> config are there
[03:22] <falktx> # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set
[03:23] <ailo> falktx: Yeah, I looked them over a little bit.
[03:23] <falktx> so no realtime possible with this kernel
[03:24] <ailo> falktx: Isn't it the other way around? http://jackaudio.org/linux_group_sched
[03:25] <falktx> hm, not sure
[03:25] <ailo> Anyway, interesting with bfs and cfs. Seems like a lot of configs to consider, when compiling..
[03:27] <ailo> falktx: Do you have a notification tray app?
[03:27] <ailo> Could be a good place to place the controls.
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: i do
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: you should try the code I already have, in the patchbay
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: so you can already try the jack-logs, jack-config and jack-render tools
[03:34] <ailo> paultag: What are you doing now on US?
[03:34] <ailo> I mean, what's your plan?
[03:35] <paultag> ailo: I've got no plan. I've got day-to-day stuff with Ubuntu general, so I'm here for my 10% time, if you will
[03:36] <paultag> ailo: so if you have stuff hanging around, let me know and I can patch and stuff
[03:36] <ScottL> ailo, paultag:  how much involvement do you want from me?  i'm certainly not a coder
[03:36] <ailo> paultag: What are your thoughts about adding some system checking?
[03:36] <paultag> ailo: I'm all for it. If you have a list of tasks I can prototype out stuff
[03:36] <ailo> Maybe the notification is a good start?
[03:37] <paultag> ailo: sure :)
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: a sepc doc would rock my socks
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: I like having goals we can nail
[03:37] <paultag> personally
[03:37] <paultag> and I'm by no means driving ailo stuiff. I'm playing barback
[03:37] <paultag> i'm just here to help and patch :)
[03:37] <ailo> paultag: Did you see my script? Not very fancy, and meant for qjackctl.
[03:38] <paultag> ailo: yeah I saw it, great start -- IMHO it can be squashed a bit into a < 20 liner
[03:38] <ScottL> paultag, i thought about making a blueprint of sorts, just to spec things out, i can have it tomorrow
[03:38] <paultag> ailo: but I'm thinking of a login checker, not a qjackctl starter
[03:38] <paultag> ScottL: :)
[03:38] <ScottL> paultag, although you and ailo will certainly have some say in it and correct and add to to it
[03:39] <paultag> ScottL: sure :)
[03:39] <ailo> paultag: sure. I'm sure my script is nonsense, but if you can use any of it http://paste.ubuntu.com/553561/
[03:39] <ailo> Or, how do you do a system-check at bootup?
[03:39]  * falktx checks too
[03:40] <paultag> ailo: let me hack something up quickly and paste it
[03:40] <falktx> ailo: I personally recommend using python, if possible
[03:41] <paultag> falktx: overkill imho
[03:41] <paultag> falktx: this is just a quick check, not a fullblown app
[03:41] <ailo> falktx: I have just begun to learn python. I can only redo stuff right now on python.
[03:41] <paultag> it'd just be system calls anyway ;)
[03:42] <falktx> ailo: and I wish to know more C++, I start to feel python "slowlyness" on my bigger apps
[03:42] <ailo> At least checking if the kernel is realtime capable would be nice. How else to do that, than to check if it not named -lowlatency -rt or -realtime
[03:42] <paultag> ailo: that runs into issues, it's really hard to check that
[03:43] <falktx> uname -a
[03:43] <paultag> falktx: -r *
[03:43] <ailo> My check seems to work, though
[03:43] <holstein> well, after the generic one gets 'good enough'
[03:43] <holstein> whenever that is
[03:43] <holstein> it wont matter right?
[03:43] <falktx> paultag: yes
[03:43] <holstein> we just need a different kernel that vanilla for now
[03:44] <holstein> than*
[03:44] <ailo> Even with the generic working, isn't the -lowlatency to be regarded as a -generic kernel for music?
[03:44] <holstein> paultag: good to see you here :)
[03:44] <holstein> thanks for you're attention and time
[03:44] <falktx> ailo: on python:
[03:44] <falktx> rt_yesno = commans.getoutput("uname -r")
[03:44] <falktx> if ("-realtime" in rt_yesno or "-rt" in rt_yesno): ...
[03:45] <falktx>   print ...
[03:45] <falktx> rt_yesno = commands.getoutput("uname -r")  [sorry for the typo]
[03:45] <ailo> falktx: Seems like simpler syntax then what I was doing, but I googled to get mine :)
[03:46] <ailo> lowlatency_running=$(echo `expr match "$linux_version" '.*\(lowlatency\)'`)
[03:46] <falktx> ailo: for users could be like:
[03:46] <ailo> if [ $lowlatency_running = "lowlatency" ]...
[03:47] <falktx> audio_yesno = commands.getoutput("groups"); if ("audio" in audio_yesno): ...
[03:47] <paultag> guys
[03:47] <paultag> this is all overkill
[03:47] <paultag> http://pastebin.com/P5EuLZT8
[03:47] <paultag> run that on login, be done with it
[03:47] <paultag> I've not tested that
[03:47] <paultag> but it looks right
[03:47] <paultag> Oh shucks, quotes around notify-send
[03:47] <falktx> paultag: yes, i got:
[03:47] <falktx> Invalid number of options.
[03:47] <falktx> hehe
[03:48] <paultag> http://pastebin.com/PkCbaac9
[03:48] <paultag> not bad for writing it in pastebin ;)
[03:48] <falktx> paultag: i can do better
[03:48] <paultag> just run that on login ever time, have it so when you click on the notify, open software center to download the lowlag kernel
[03:49] <paultag> falktx: have at it. That's a 2 minute script that I wrote in a webfield
[03:49] <paultag> I'm saying -- python is overkill
[03:49] <paultag> you have to import system calls and libnotify
[03:51] <falktx> paultag: hm, you can use os.system
[03:52] <paultag> falktx: still, python is sub par -- you're pulling up a VM to do system calls, and regex parsing when it can be done in bash with a one-liner
[03:52] <paultag> falktx: python is good for complex stuff -- not for checking a kernel version
[03:52] <ailo> paultag: It's not working right. No errors, so maybe the variable matching is not working right?
[03:52] <paultag> ailo: I tested it, try overriding RELEASE to a ll string
[03:53] <paultag> ailo: it's all working, and should handle hand-rolled kernels with a good name
[03:53] <ailo> This is the name of lowlatency: 2.6.37-11-lowlatency
[03:53] <paultag> falktx: I'd use python if we needed floating point math for a multi-agent system with talking threads
[03:53] <paultag> ailo: so set RELEASE="2.6.37-11-lowlatency"
[03:53] <falktx> ...
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: after the uname call, it handles it fine :)
[03:54] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, but we don't want to use the numbers to do the match, right?
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: nope. It just uses a grep
[03:54] <ailo> My way only checks for the name "lowlatency"
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: keep it simple ;)
[03:54] <falktx> err, anyway, http://pastebin.com/AVchBVi3
[03:55] <paultag> falktx: I mean, yeah -- but that's just wrapping bash calls
[03:55] <falktx> i know, it's bad
[03:55] <paultag> :)
[03:55] <paultag> if it works, it works
[03:56] <paultag> ailo: do you see what it's doing?
[03:56] <paultag> good 'nuf for goverment work ;)
[03:56] <falktx> time to go, bye eveyone!
[03:56] <paultag> falktx: cheers!
[03:56] <ailo> paultag: I added my way to it http://pastebin.com/HTwaQjNw
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: $linux_version is undefined
[03:57] <ailo> It will work regardless of the version number.
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: might want to put a uname -r in there
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: and my way will work just as well -- remember it uses grep
[03:58] <ailo> Ah, sorry
[03:58] <paultag> ;)
[04:00] <ailo> Ah, forget it. I'm too tired. But still, don't we need that, in case of upgrades?
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: upgrades don't matter to us :)
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: as long as the kernel has that string in it, we're fine
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: if the kernel has generic, we'll complain again
[04:01] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, that's what I mean.
[04:02] <paultag> ailo: give it some testcases :)
[04:02] <ailo> paultag: I would like to give it some time tomorrow and look it over.
[04:03] <paultag> ailo: rock on dude. I'll be online for a little while.  I'll be around.
[04:04] <paultag> ailo: rock on!
[04:47] <ScottL> paultag, it's not only cool that you are helping get stuff done but also that you share knowledge as well!
[04:52] <paultag> ScottL: thanks dude, I'm one of the founding members of the Ubuntu Beginners Team -- been helping beginners with Ubuntu since 2007
[04:52] <paultag> ScottL: it's just how I roll at this point ;)
[04:54] <paultag> not that I have anyting special to impart, really
[11:41] <ScottL> good morning abogani
[11:42] <ScottL> i saw your comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/695892
[11:42] <ScottL> do you know how to make a live cd/dcd within the buildd system?
[12:01] <ScottL> hi rlameiro
[12:01]  * ScottL is going back to bed now the he let the puppies out to do their "business"
[12:01] <rlameiro> lol
[12:02] <rlameiro> ScottL, have a good night then :D
[12:06] <rlameiro> abogani, hey man:D
[12:06] <rlameiro> how are you?
[12:06] <rlameiro> are you doing some stuff with arduinno lately?
[12:54] <abogani> ScottL: Good morning!
[12:54] <abogani> ScottL: Really I don't know. I made some livecds but not within buildd infrastructure...
[12:57]  * abogani waves all!
[14:14] <tanders12> abogani; Hey could I ask a question?
[14:22] <paultag> !ask | tanders12
[14:22] <paultag> ;)
[14:22] <paultag> Wow, that's much more rude the ours in ubt
[14:31] <abogani> tanders12: Yes
[14:35] <ailo> paultag: I was thinking more about the notification script. Suppose someone builds their own -rt kernel. What should decide the user is running the wrong kernel?
[14:37] <ailo> abogani: I suspect kernel 2.6.38 is to be in Natty, right? They are talking about a fix to solve realtime. Do you know anything about that?
[14:37] <tanders12> ;)
[14:38] <tanders12> sorry i just woke up
[14:39] <abogani> ailo: No.
[14:39] <tanders12> abogani: are there known issues with running your natty kernels on maverick, other than networking?
[14:41] <abogani> tanders12: No but you have to update it manually.
[14:42] <abogani> ailo: ping
[14:43] <ailo> abogani: I'm still new to irq. What's a ping? :)
[14:43] <abogani> ailo: It's a way to call you. And you should reply "pong"
[14:44] <ailo> abogani: I will have to remember that ;)
[14:45] <abogani> ailo: Any realtime kernel (so also which are self-compiled) create a new file in proc so called (please check) /proc/loadavg_rt So if this file exist the running kernel is realtime.
[14:46] <abogani> Something similar to [ -e /proc/loadavg_rt ]
[14:47] <ailo> abogani: Thanks. That should take care of self compiled kernels, no matter what they are called then.
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: the name, for now
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: if someone can compile a kernel, they can read the docs on disabling the script
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: :)
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: since all this is compiled in, there's no good way to test this externally
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: unless there's a flag in proc or something, but I doubt it
[14:50] <tanders12> abogani: ah ok thanks. also, is it normal for the had .deb's to not install due to dependencies?
[14:50] <paultag> ailo: picking up what I'm putting down?
[14:50] <ailo> paultag: Sure
[14:50] <paultag> awesome
[14:51] <paultag> abogani: realtime != lowlatency
[14:51] <paultag> I missed your lines, there
[14:51] <abogani> paultag: ?
[14:52] <abogani> tanders12: Because missing debs are in official Natty archives.
[14:52] <paultag> abogani: the realtime patch is not the same as the lowlatency flag
[14:52] <abogani> paultag: So?
[14:52] <paultag> abogani: /proc/loadavg_rt does not matter for what ailo is doing ;)
[14:53] <ailo> paultag: I suppose, even if there is a fix to the generic kernel, I gues it won't hurt for us to recommend the -lowlatency, but we could also make sure it doesn't notify for -rt kernels
[14:53] <paultag> ailo: Yeah, I s'pose. RT has a lot of issues IMHO
[14:53] <paultag> it's quite buggy and can lead to deadlock pretty darn quick
[14:54] <ailo> paultag: I suppose, but then it is not by our choice, anyway.
[14:54] <paultag> ailo: truth
[14:56] <abogani> If ailo calls lowlatency kernel "realtime" it isn't my fault.
[14:56] <paultag> abogani: I'm not accusing you of anything
[14:56] <abogani> :-)
[14:56] <paultag> :)
[14:57] <ScottL> can someone look at this error?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/554031/
[14:57] <ScottL> it's for this code:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/554033/
[14:57]  * abogani is also suspecting that here there is a term misuse of "Irqs conflicts"...
[14:58] <paultag> abogani: I wrote a kerenel from scratch, I know how one uses an IRQ line ;)
[14:58] <paultag> ScottL: #!/bin/bash
[14:58] <paultag> ScottL: you have ##!/bin/bash, so it fails to find it as a script, since the magic bits are blown
[14:59] <paultag> sh *
[15:02] <ailo> How about making sure -lowlatency is the default kernel?
[15:03] <paultag> ailo: we can add it as a dependency on the metapackage, in theory
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: or we could just not make it default
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: people might use studio for GIMP work, or video production and not need the lowlag kerenl
[15:04] <paultag> kernel
[15:04] <ailo> paultag: Seems like we are installing from PPA, and we haven't decided how to do that yet.
[15:04] <paultag> We could just bitch on login in a passive-aggressive way
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: Oh, aye. Yup.
[15:06] <ailo> paultag: Seems like a good kernel for most things, though I suppose it should only be a dependency for audio-meta-packages.
[15:07] <ailo> Is it totally wrong to put the PPA stuff into a meta-package installation?
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: aye. I mean, it's against policy to mark something as a dependency if it's really not
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: humm. Not sure
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: if done right, I can't imagine that it's horrid, but perhaps frowned upon
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: it would have to be part of the serving-suggestion package
[15:08] <ailo> paultag: Don't you think we should consider -lowlatency a dependency for audio work? I really think it's needed, at least now.
[15:08] <paultag> ailo: yes, I'd agree -- but IMHO just for the audio et
[15:08] <paultag> set *
[15:10] <ailo> ScottL: What do you think? Alessios PPA, and installing from it into a meta-package?
[15:10] <paultag> ailo: the only way that'd be OK is if an ubuntu studio team only had upload rights to the PPA
[15:10] <paultag> otherwise you're giving upload rights to someone without any
[15:11] <ailo> paultag: I see
[15:11] <paultag> ailo: ( someone could upload bash with hacks in it, and klobber all the machines on an overriden ppa upload )
[15:11] <ailo> paultag: But if it is presented as an option during install?
[15:12] <paultag> ailo: we could have a help page and suggest PPAs, but there's no way we can do that undercover
[15:12] <ailo> paultag: One suggestion was to add that to the Ubuntustudio-controls.
[15:12] <paultag> +1 there
[15:13] <ailo> Maybe it's enough to have info on the Desktop on how to get started with audio, and let Ubuntustudio-controls handle -lowlatency install and adding user to audio group, then?
[15:14] <ailo> ScottL had an idea about a script starting at first boot into the system. Maybe that is even better?
[15:14] <paultag> ailo: yeah, but most people want to dig right into their system
[15:14] <paultag> ailo: so they might close out and not read it, then be fuxed
[15:15] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, people like to try first
[15:15] <paultag> ailo: perhaps have a popup notify, and have it clickable -- when you click, open the helper
[15:15] <ailo> paultag: I like that.
[15:16] <paultag> awesome.
[15:16] <ailo> We still don't have anyone working on the controls. falktx offered to help, but decided to do his own thing.
[15:17] <paultag> humm
[15:17] <tanders12> controls for what?
[15:17] <ailo> I was supposed to try it, and I still can. I might need some help, though.
[15:17] <paultag> ailo: is there any old code hanging around?
[15:17] <paultag> ailo: I can help
[15:17] <paultag> tanders12: no clue, tbh.  The app, that used to fix firewire and set memlock and audio prio
[15:18] <tanders12> k thats what i thought
[15:19] <tanders12> whats the gui written in (no time to check right now)?
[15:19] <paultag> ScottL: did that work?
[15:19] <paultag> tanders12: my guess, knowing freetards -- gtk and python
[15:19] <paultag> checking it out now to find the vcs, give me a moment
[15:20] <tanders12> paultag: yeah prollly
[15:20] <tanders12> not like it matters, i have no gui experience
[15:20] <paultag> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls
[15:20] <tanders12> might be fun to look at tho
[15:20] <paultag> YES! Called it!
[15:20] <tanders12> ^^
[15:21] <paultag> ailo: code looks sane
[15:21] <tanders12> well i gtg. working on half a dozen things today but maybe ill take an hour and see if i can fiddle with the controls too
[15:21] <paultag> tanders12: :)
[15:22] <ailo> paultag: For someone experienced, doesn't seem like too much work, right?
[15:22] <tanders12> paultag: lemme know if you get anywhere with it
[15:22] <paultag> ailo: christ no -- should be easy enough -- code looks easy to hack out, and it uses Glade 3
[15:22] <paultag> life's grand
[15:22] <paultag> tanders12: sure thing
[15:23] <ailo> paultag: We really don't need so much. But, maybe we need to change the program so it runs in user mode.
[15:23] <ailo> paultag: So we can let the user add itself to audio group
[15:23] <paultag> ailo: yeah, it would be nice to bump up with gksudo only when you need it
[15:24] <ailo> We don't really need anything more than, add user to audio group, and install -lowlatency, as basic needs
[15:24] <paultag> ailo: aye. It looks pretty good from my brief lookover
[15:24] <ailo> Then, of course one can always add all kinds of features
[15:24] <paultag> ailo: some bits could use a clean, but overall solid
[15:25] <paultag> I'd work from that, no need for a rewrite or anything, which is nice
[15:25] <ailo> paultag: So, you want to do that, or should I start doing something?
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: why don't you wind up on it, you have a really great vision for it
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: if you need help, I can help out however you need me
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: I'm just here to back you up
[15:26] <ailo> paultag: Ok. I suspect we have until some time in February. Should be no problem.
[15:26] <paultag> yessir!
[15:28] <paultag> ailo: btw, I don't think we officially met -- I'm Paul Tagliamonte :)
[15:28] <paultag> I'm pretty new around these parts
[15:32] <ailo> paultag: I'm Kaj Ailomaa. https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at . Musician, living in Sweden.
[15:33] <paultag> http://launchpad.net/~paultag  here
[15:33] <paultag> ailo: well met :)
[15:33] <ailo> paultag: Nice to meet you to :)
[15:34] <paultag> ailo: what do you play?
[15:37] <paultag> P.S. you should totally buy the domain ailo.at
[15:40] <ScottL> sorry, family woke up and belam ensued
[15:41] <ScottL> ah!  thanks paultag, that's quite embarrassing actually
[15:41] <paultag> ScottL: nah! not at all!
[15:42] <paultag> ScottL: it's not clear unless you know the underlying crap
[15:43] <ScottL> paultag, ah, but i do know enough that it should have been a single #
[15:44] <ScottL> i misrepresent myself slightly, i have done programming before, in basic, fortran, pascal, AutoLISP, but these where twenty years ago
[15:44] <ScottL> s/where/were
[15:44] <paultag> :)
[15:45] <ScottL> we promised my daughter that we would take her to see the Disney movie Tangled, so i'll be out of the house for several hours and i really wanted to work on this script more :/
[15:45] <paultag> ScottL: it can wait -- family first, dude
[15:46] <ScottL> however, i should be able to get it this afternoon/evening, along with some specs for the -controls
[15:46] <paultag> ScottL: the little things will be the big things, man
[15:46] <paultag> :)
[15:46] <paultag> ScottL: great! ttyl :)F
[15:46] <paultag> :) *
[16:05]  * ScottL managed to fix the '##' and start the package building with pbuilder before leaving :)
[16:13] <paultag> :)
[16:13] <paultag> ScottL: let me know if it still FTBFS
[16:13] <paultag> or fails to install, whavever the issue was ;)


[06:34] <HunterZ> anyone else unable to log in to launchpad.net?
[06:35] <HunterZ> never mind, it's working now
[12:58] <homer5439> how to download stuff from launchpad librarian?
[12:58] <homer5439> I need some old kernel for ubuntu
[17:57] <ploppy> hi there, I uploaded a new package to my PPA about an hour or two ago and heard nothing from launchpad :( neither does it appear in the list of building packages nor do I receive an e-mail with an error message
[17:58] <ploppy> any idea?
[18:56] <geser> ploppy: does LP know that the key you signed the package with is yours? LP doesn't mail for rejected uploads where it doesn't know who uploaded it (the key is not associated with a LP user)
[18:57] <ploppy> it worked once and I can't remember changing my key
[18:57] <ploppy> but I go checking it
[18:58] <ploppy> (it's been a while since I uploaded my last package)
[19:02] <ploppy> yes, it's the same key
[19:02] <maxb> ploppy: Run "gpg --verify whatever.changes" and then cross-check that your Launchpad profile page lists the key id
[19:03] <ploppy> same key id
[19:05] <maxb> In that case, all I can suggest is to double-check you didn't get an email (or that it didn't get deemed spam locally)
[19:06] <maxb> Also, if you previously tried to upload it over ftp, you might try using sftp - I have an vague recollection that some errors are better reported to you that way
[19:08] <ploppy> I used dput
[19:10] <ploppy> ah, which seems to use ftp
[19:12] <ploppy> when trying to re-upload it (via ftp) it says "Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net Nothing more to do for pidgin-advanced-sound-notification_1.2.1-precise4_source.changes" so I guess the transfer succeeded
[19:26] <maxb> That message is produced locally by dput in response to seeing the local flag file it creates
[19:27] <maxb> use dput -f, or delete the .upload file to try again
[20:28] <ploppy> "Successfully uploaded packages." using dput with SFTP
[20:29] <ploppy> maybe it's just an e-mail-provider thing, I guess I wait until tomorrow
[23:04] <yofel> any idea about https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/175454 ? (As I'm not getting an answer there)