[02:35] <TheMuso> RAOF: RAOF You're on precise correct? Did you get this error when attempting to run schroot for the first time? E: Access not authorised
[02:35] <RAOF> Hm, no I don't.
[02:36] <TheMuso> Hrm interesting.
[02:36] <RAOF> I do however suffer from everything being unbootstrappable at the moment.  Damn perl transition!
[02:36] <TheMuso> you do not have permission to access the schroot service.
[02:36] <TheMuso> heh right.
[02:48] <jbicha> TheMuso: I use http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild as a guide, perhaps you need to sudo sbuild-adduser and then log out and back in
[02:49] <TheMuso> jbicha: see #ubuntu-devel, worked out the problem.
[02:49] <TheMuso> Thanks anyway.
[02:49] <TheMuso> jbicha: Oh and did that vte patch fix your keyboard issue?
[02:49] <jbicha> TheMuso: yes, thank you!
[02:51] <TheMuso> np
[02:51] <TheMuso> It wasn't my patch, I just grabbit it and packaged it. :)
[03:34] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF and robert_ancell , you guys have a few minutes for a phone call?
[03:34] <RAOF> Yup.
[03:36] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, RAOF , I'll wait for robert_ancell so we can get a conf call and do it all at once.
[03:36]  * RAOF goes to find his headset/mic
[03:56] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, hey, just came back
[03:56] <robert_ancell> mumble?
[03:56] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: mumble work?
[03:57] <RAOF> Allow me to install it…
[03:58] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: :/ ;)
[03:59]  * bryceh waves
[04:00] <RAOF> Done.
[04:01] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF robert_ancell in desktop
[04:02] <robert_ancell> RAOF, microphone settings wrong?
[04:02] <RAOF> Urgh.
[04:16] <robert_ancell> RAOF, does X do anything with SIGUSR1?  I was thinking we could hack up X to exit without clearing the screen on this signal if not to get the smooth switching working
[04:16] <robert_ancell> I mean SIGUSR2
[04:17] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't think SIGUSR2 is used, no.
[04:17] <robert_ancell> Using signals is pretty yuck, but not sure what else to do
[04:17] <RAOF> Weren't we going to pass a parameter on startup to make it not clear on shutdown?
[04:18] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, but there is a risk there that when it comes to shutdown I want to you clear up as normal
[04:18] <robert_ancell> or lightdm fails or something
[04:18] <RAOF> Right.
[04:19] <robert_ancell> RAOF, actually, do we need it at all? If I start a new X server and wait for the SIGUSR1 signal, then switch to it should there be any flicker?
[04:19] <RAOF> Just whatever VT clearing X does normally.
[04:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, any idea what it does?
[04:21]  * RAOF plays “empirical testing”
[04:22] <RAOF> Answer: there's is a flicker.
[04:22] <RAOF> This could surely be eliminated, though.
[04:22] <robert_ancell> but is it required when switching to a text terminal?
[04:24] <RAOF> I'm uncertain.  I wouldn't think so.
[04:26] <RAOF> At least for kms drivers.
[04:53] <pitti> Good morning
[04:53] <pitti> bigon: yep, we discussed that a bit yesterday; most stuff will be blocked by current glib/gtk anyway, and that will land soon
[05:46] <bryceh> RAOF, I've drafted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/LtsPointUpdatesForXorg and think it covers everything we've talked about so far.  You should probably look it over and add any noteworthy bits you can think of.
[05:47] <RAOF> Good idea.
[05:49] <RAOF> bryceh: That matches my recollection of the session.
[06:01] <bryceh> RAOF, ok good
[06:02] <bryceh> so I think the blueprints are all squared away now.
[06:32] <pitti> bryceh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-multi-monitor is still in "drafting" state, though}
[06:32] <pitti> ?
[06:32] <pitti> no, "discussion"
[06:32] <bryceh> hmm that's not right, one sec
[06:33] <bryceh> pitti, ok it's in review state now
[06:33] <pitti> ah, perfect; will look at it ASAP
[06:35] <pitti> ah, looks great, thanks
[06:45] <pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert, how are you?
[06:47] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hm.  Hey, could you confirm this VT switching behaviour?  Switching to second or subsequent X servers involves a flash, but switching to the initial X server is seamless.
[06:47] <RAOF> robert_ancell: How would I get lightdm to spawn the second and subsequent servers with “-background none”?
[06:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, do they launch without that?  I guess I need to fix the logic then
[06:51] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I'm by no means certain that's the (a?) cause of the flashing, but it's an obvious difference between VT7 and the others.
[06:52] <robert_ancell> RAOF, right, I'll investigate tomorrow, we might not need anything special (except when shutting down)
[06:57] <RAOF> Hm, yeah.  As long as we always log out by starting a server first, then switching to it.
[07:05] <didrocks> good morning
[07:07] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:13] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[07:22] <pitti> RAOF: FYI, I'm looking at merging/syncing libraw; Debian experimental version uses lcms2 now
[07:23] <pitti> looks fine, syncing
[07:59] <pitti> bigon: I was just about to update json-glib, but now saw that you already did it in svn, but not uploaded; anything wrong with it?
[08:19] <chrisccoulson_> good morning everyone
[08:19] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:19] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[08:19] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: feeling better than yesterday. Seems even to have a clear brain :)
[08:19] <didrocks> and you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks. slowly recovering from my ubuflu :)
[08:21] <didrocks> :)
[08:21] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: urgh, still ubuflu?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, i've been really bad this time
[08:35] <AfC> Since I've upgraded to the 3.2 set, every time I go to join a new wireless network (ie, I'm a guest in this office today), I get prompted with the "System policy requires you to authenticate in order to change wireless settings" dialog.
[08:35] <AfC> I can only assume it's a policy kit thing, but I added myself to netdev and that didn't help. So I'm wondering what to poke. Any suggestions?
[08:36] <pitti> does ck-list-sessions have an active session for you?
[08:45] <AfC> pitti: checking
[08:45] <AfC> pitti: yes
[08:50] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:50] <AfC> I'll try messing with pkcheck
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> AfC, do you have policykit-desktop-privileges installed
[08:52] <AfC> chrisccoulson: checking
[08:53] <AfC> chrisccoulson: _no_
[08:53] <AfC> So, installing :)
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> AfC, that's probably why then :)
[08:55]  * AfC disconnects and retries
[08:55] <bigon> pitti: re json-glib: ENOTIME :)
[08:55] <bigon> I'll have a look at that today
[09:03] <AfC> chrisccoulson: that seems to have done the trick. Thanks!
[09:19] <pitti> bigon: I can help with build/test/upload if you want me to
[09:19] <pitti> bigon: I just didn't want to step on your toes
[09:19] <bigon> I'm looking at adding ma support
[09:20] <pitti> ah
[09:20] <desrt> pitti: platform sprint is 2012W02, right?
[09:20] <desrt> (good morning,btw)
[09:20] <pitti> hey desrt
[09:20] <pitti> desrt: yep, Jan 09 to 13
[09:20] <desrt> thanks
[09:21] <didrocks> hey bigon, desrt!
[09:23] <pitti> hm, versions.html doesn't get updated
[09:23]  * pitti checks
[09:23] <desrt> didrocks: good morning
[09:25] <desrt> being in europe makes it quite difficult to talk to robert!
[09:26] <didrocks> indeed
[09:27] <Laney> is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/762167 right?
[09:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 762167 in light-themes "missing dependency on gtk2-engines-pixbuf" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:38] <seb128> hey
[09:38] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va ?
[09:38] <seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ? et toi ?
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: bien, au moins, j'ai un esprit clair aujourd'hui (et plus de fièvre ;))
[09:39] <seb128> ;-)
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> !!!!!
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> hi french people :)
[09:40] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:40] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:40] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:40] <seb128> how are you?
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: FYI, currently debugging why versions.py stopped updating
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, when did it stop?
[09:40] <pitti> I did a couple of syncs/merges this morning, and it's out of date
[09:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm great, thanks
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: ast updated: Wednesday November 16 2011 20:22:50 +0000
[09:41] <seb128> ok, weird
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, seems pitti synced dee after all :p
[09:43] <pitti> sorry, was that wrong? we didn't have any more changes, and our package was in fact broken
[09:43] <pitti> we had a debian/patches/debian-changes
[09:44] <didrocks> pitti: can you update the vcs as well, please?
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, we had the discussion a few weeks ago, the vcs is full source derivated from the upstream bzr
[09:44] <didrocks> yeah, it will probably break it
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, that doesn't play well with direct syncs
[09:44] <pitti> ok, will update our vcs then
[09:45] <seb128> thanks
[09:45] <seb128> I'm still unsure what to do with those
[09:45] <didrocks> if you just add the changelog, it should be fine for next iteration
[09:45] <seb128> libindicate is in the same case
[09:45] <seb128> libindicator as well I think
[09:45] <didrocks> but if you copy the full source, we can have conflicts at next merge
[09:45] <pitti> didrocks: right, and drop debian-chagnes* (I suppose that's not even in the vcs, though)
[09:45] <didrocks> pitti: no, it's not
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: debian-changes is because of cherry-pick upstream
[09:46] <didrocks> bzr merge ../
[09:46] <didrocks> from trunk
[09:46] <didrocks> so inline changes that are erased at next release by merge-upstream
[09:46] <didrocks> but anyway, we told that we won't use source 3 anymore for those bzr-derived packages
[09:46] <pitti> ok, sorry for stomping over this
[09:46] <seb128> yeah, bzr cherrypick and source v3 lead to weirdness
[09:47] <didrocks> pitti: no worry :) just update the debian/changelog and not the content itself as i'm afraid of conflicts at next resync
[09:47] <seb128> pitti, thanks for all the updates in Debian and sync!
[09:47] <pitti> de rien :)
[09:47] <pitti> I was in the mood this morning
[09:47] <pitti> currently updating libgnome-keyring
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, not quite readable for archive admins :/
[09:48] <pitti> I checked libgnome, we can sync if we don't care about the changed background and sound theme settings
[09:48] <pitti> the latter might still be relevant though for GTK 2 apps
[09:48] <pitti> otherwise they might start producing sound effects again
[09:48] <pitti> I'm not sure whether that's libgnome directly or goes through g-s-d
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, I doubt we have a lot using libgnome still
[09:49] <seb128> we can sync and see if somebody complains
[09:50] <pitti> edubuntu still has it on their images
[09:50] <pitti> I thought "let's just ignore it and have it bitrot"
[09:50] <pitti> :)
[09:51] <seb128> works as well ;-)
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> hah
[09:52] <seb128> oh, I think chrisccoulson just volunteered for a few merges with his "hah"
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right? ;-)
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> oops, did i just volunteer for some more? ;)
[09:54] <pitti> didrocks: pushed
[09:54] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks!
[09:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no, no work for you until you get g-s-d fixed ;-)
[09:54]  * chrisccoulson hides
[09:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, poke - is it fixed yet - poke -poke :p
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> does that still happen in precise? i didn't try suspending since i upgraded yesterday :)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dunno, I don't suspend a lot at home and I'm still on Oneiric ;-)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> one second, let me try
[09:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, my tb indicator still get blued when there is no unread message left though!
[09:55] <pitti> I suspended yesterday, and it worked perfectly
[09:56] <pitti> in fact, it was the first time ever when suspend worked correctly with unity and an external monitor
[09:56] <pitti> before I had to ctrl+alt+f1 and -f7
[09:56] <bigon> pitti: I've pushed my changes for json-glib, if you want to look at them :
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: versions.py> ah, there we go -- LP crash
[09:56] <bigon> :)
[09:56] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[09:56] <pitti> Getting LP bugs...
[09:56] <pitti> lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
[09:57] <pitti> took awfully long, I assume timeout
[09:57] <pitti>
Timeout error

[09:57] <pitti> yhep
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, the bogus battery on resume issue is fixed in precise
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i probably shouldn't have upgraded yesterday ;)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> actually
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i could just use the old kernel :)
[09:59] <pitti> bigon: building locally, to check whether M-A: same is safe for the -dbg (sometimes it isn't)
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: I guess I can apply the same created_since='2011-08-01' trick that I did to apport
[10:01] <bigon> pitti: ah? I was not sure actually
[10:01] <seb128> pitti is on a sync frenzy ;-)
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, wfm
[10:02] <bigon> pitti: how can I check if -ma -dbg pkg are safe?
[10:02] <pitti> bigon: if they only have binaries in /usr/lib/x86.../, it's fine
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: but sometimes -dbg packages have e. g. /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/foo
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: and these will collide
[10:03] <bigon> ah ok
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: bug not here, that looks fine
[10:03] <pitti> no /bin stuff in it
[10:03] <bigon> yep
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: thanks!
[10:05] <bigon> I'll upload it after my meeting, if you want to give it a functional test
[10:10] <pitti> bigon: seems to work fine here
[10:22] <pitti> ah! http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: ^
[10:24] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[10:35]  * pitti fixes the libunique FTBFS, sorry about that
[10:36] <pitti> LP is down, but the error messages have become much nicer!
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, what error messages?
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: try opening LP
[10:37] <pitti> you see the recent status messages now
[10:37] <pitti> which is really helpful
[10:38] <seb128> ah right
[10:41] <pitti> it's so tempting to move the Conflicts: bamfdaemon (<= 0.2.92-0ubuntu1), libzeitgeist-gio, wncksyncdaemon from libglib2.0-0 to some other package like gvfs or zeitgeist or what not, and sync glib2.0
[10:43] <pitti> but oh well, I think I'll stop my update/merge/sync mania now and move to lunch and apport :)
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no, don't remove those :-)
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> those packages are quite disruptive if they remain installed ;)
[10:44] <chrisccoulson> as i found out last cycle
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> gah, launchpad, COME BACK NOW
[10:46] <AfC> chrisccoulson: [not sure if you saw] yes, your solution of installing missing policykit-desktop-privileges has fixed the problem. Thanks!
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> AfC, excellent :)
[10:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, not remove -- move to some other package
[10:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: we need to keep them until after precise indeed
[10:48] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. i guess that could make sense
[10:51] <hrw> unity/3d is even usable
[10:51] <hrw> but bug 891116 affects my work too often ;(
[10:51] <ubot2> hrw: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable (https://launchpad.net/bugs/891116)
[10:52] <seb128> pitti, we will not sync glib long, we want 2.31
[10:54] <seb128> hrw, seems you are the only one to get it, did you tweak your compiz config?
[10:55] <desrt> AfC: stop that.  you're making me dizzy. :p
[10:55]  * AfC hands desrt a glass of water
[10:55] <desrt> particularly since chrisccoulson is on both places :p
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> heh
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[10:56] <seb128> desrt, stop drinking!
[10:56] <seb128> or drink water
[10:56] <desrt> seb128: but it's coffee
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> The following packages have been kept back
[10:56] <chrisccoulson>   icedtea-netx icedtea-plugin
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> isn't that not meant to happen these days? :-P
[10:56] <seb128> desrt, no coffee for you anymore, you had enough!
[10:56] <desrt> it's only my second cup today
[10:56] <seb128> then it's ok ;-)
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> i haven't had any!
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> but i have had nearly a whole bottle of pepsi max
[10:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, use dist-upgrade?
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's what i'm using ;)
[10:57] <seb128> not sure pepsi is better than coffee
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't think it's any better
[10:58] <seb128> oh
[10:58] <seb128> launchpad is back!
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> i can feel my stomach dissolving away as we speak
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> probably should go and make coffee :)
[10:58]  * desrt sticks with the coffee
[10:58] <desrt> seb128: still no 2.31.0?  bad hacker.
[10:59] <seb128> desrt, I was sort of waiting for the eog issue to be fixed
[10:59] <desrt> it is.
[10:59] <desrt> did they not do a release yet?
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> hah,  icedtea-netx : Depends: icedtea-netx-common but it is not installable
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> E: Package 'icedtea-netx-common' has no installation candidate
[10:59] <desrt> iirc they pushed my patch...
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> who broke the icedtea package?? :)
[10:59] <seb128> desrt, no they didn't
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, doko?
[11:00] <seb128> desrt, http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog/commit/?id=ee4f6b27027421ee1e7cb14948f587da83171668 ?
[11:00] <desrt> yes
[11:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, seems he actually fixed it already
[11:00] <desrt> probably that commit should have also bumped the glib depend
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> i guess i just need to wait for the publisher
[11:01] <seb128> desrt, so taking that commit on glib 2.30 will lead to issues?
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> actually
[11:02] <desrt> yup.
[11:02] <desrt> seb128: in short: i completely buggered it up
[11:03] <hrw> seb128: I did
[11:03] <desrt> i consider the old behaviour to be a very bad bug, and eog's previous code to be a workaround for that mistake
[11:03] <desrt> now the bug is fixed and the workaround _must_ be removed in order for eog to continue working
[11:03] <desrt> which sucks a lot
[11:03] <desrt> but it is as it is
[11:03] <seb128> desrt, I hope we don't have many applications workarounding the old bug :p
[11:04] <desrt> seb128: it only happens when you use gdkthreads
[11:04] <hrw> seb128: ccsm is needed even to set launcher size (32px) and amount of desktops (1x6)
[11:04] <desrt> seb128: and afaik, eog is the only app that i've heard of having trouble with the new glib
[11:04] <desrt> (after we fixed the 2 other actual bugs)
[11:04] <seb128> desrt, yeah, right, we already had those discussions ;-)
[11:05] <seb128> desrt, I'm just pondering what to do with eog and glib now, I guess I will make the new glib breaks eog << before-patch and eog depends on >> new-glib
[11:05] <desrt> seb128: so i don't need to hope :p
[11:05] <desrt> seb128: yes.  that's correct.
[11:05] <desrt> sorry for the bumpy ride with glib lately
[11:05] <desrt> fwiw, i expect it to continue to be bumpy in these sorts of ways
[11:05] <seb128> no worry
[11:05] <desrt> small little issues here and there
[11:05] <seb128> that's less cool
[11:06] <desrt> i don't go out of my way to cause problems
[11:06] <seb128> I hoped we would be over the bumpy part of the road ;-)
[11:06] <desrt> well
[11:06] <desrt> with respect to threading, we are
[11:06] <desrt> but who knows what needs to be beaten on next
[11:06] <ricotz> desrt, hi
[11:06] <seb128> keep working on gsettings and gmenumodel and we are fine :p
[11:06] <desrt> i'm just saying that if i see a situation like this again in the future, i will probably do the same thing agian
[11:07] <ricotz> seb128, hey
[11:07] <seb128> hello ricotz
[11:07] <desrt> and not say "we have to keep it working the broken way"
[11:07] <desrt> ricotz: good morning
[11:07] <seb128> desrt, right
[11:07] <seb128> desrt, well I guess we are mostly fine for this cycle now
[11:07] <desrt> seb128: probably.
[11:07] <seb128> which is what I care about at the moment ;-)
[11:07] <ricotz> desrt, seems like problem with the threading tests locking up is getting worse again
[11:07] <desrt> ricotz: the one i was trying to blame on glibc?
[11:08] <ricotz> hmm, the one running on a very old kernel
[11:08] <desrt> maybe we can blame the kernel this time :)
[11:08] <ricotz> like the launchpad builders running
[11:09] <desrt> which testcase deadlocked?
[11:09] <ricotz> one sec
[11:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, versions says that firefox 9 isn't buddy with armel and powerpc in precise
[11:09] <desrt> i assume this is with the glibc fix already applied?
[11:10] <ricotz> TEST: gdbus-threading... (pid=10533)
[11:10] <desrt> heh
[11:10] <desrt> i suspect that's our bug
[11:10] <desrt> s/our/davidz's/
[11:10] <ricotz> ok ;)
[11:10] <ricotz> desrt, did you get my post in #gtk+?
[11:10] <desrt> he was making some comments the other day that he's not sure if the testcases are threadsafe
[11:10] <desrt> which is pretty ... unfortunate
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure why, but the armel build was killed 10 hours in
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> and powerpc is known broken, but i don't care about that ;)
[11:11] <desrt> ricotz: i did.  i didn't understand the problem.
[11:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, it seems like somebody rm-ed the build tree
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i wish people would tell me when they kill a build
[11:11] <desrt> it's not causing glib to fail to build...?
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i have no idea why :/
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm blocked on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/179038 now. perhaps this is a sign to fix seb128's bugs
[11:15] <seb128> \o/
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> brb, need to switch to the old kernel
[11:18] <ricotz> cyphermox, hello :), do you noticed some new fallouts with iwl4965 like having a very untable wlan connection and microcode crashes
[11:44] <tbf> are there chances to get old alt-tab switching behavior back for 12.04?
[11:44] <tbf> the new switcher looks incredibly awesome... but...
[11:45] <tbf> i constantly loose windows because i fail to notice i want to switch between windows of the same app
[11:45] <tbf> also my little finger starts to hurt since the ~ key's stoke is much smaller than the tab key's stroke on my thinkpad
[11:46] <tbf> so i really develop some resistance to press alt-~
[11:46] <tbf> another problem: when i accidentally pressed alt-tab instead of alt-~ i now have to tab back to get the window picker to open
[11:46] <tbf> since alt-tab already went to the next window
[11:46] <tbf> it's just not nice.
[11:47] <tbf> despite the gorgeous look
[11:48] <didrocks> tbf: hey, I guess those kind of discussions should happen rather on the ayatana mailing list where designers are (I guess there is also #ubuntu-design channel now)
[11:50] <tbf> didrocks: ok, another list to subscribe. :-D
[11:50] <tbf> thanks you anyway.
[11:50] <didrocks> yw :)
[11:51] <seb128> tbf, you can re-enable the old switcher in ccsm if you don't like the modern workflow ;-)
[11:52] <tbf> seb128: oh, you can? where?
[11:52] <seb128> tbf, just unset the keybindings for the unity one in the unity ccsm options
[11:53] <tbf> seb128: also i am not generally against change.... actually i love unity (and tell everyone)
[11:54] <tbf> only think that this change was a miss step... maybe there is a reason the old alt-tab behavior got adopted quickly and then didn't get challenged for decades... ? ;-)
[11:54] <seb128> tbf, you can unset the keybinding and activate the static switcher then
[11:54] <tbf> ...checking
[11:54] <seb128> tbf, I'm not sure to understand what your issue is with the new one
[11:54] <tbf> guess i'll also loose the awesome presentation, i guess?
[11:55] <seb128> yes, you will be back to the old compiz code
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: first of all i don't see the use case. why do i want to distinguish at all? what's the benefit encouraging to learn this?
[11:56] <seb128> what is to learn?
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: second i get a huge penalty for using the wrong key
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: when to press alt-tab and when alt-~
[11:56] <seb128> you can use alt-tab all the time
[11:56] <seb128> just pause on an icon, it will display the different instance
[11:57] <seb128> the delay is a bit long, that's a known issue and will be fixed this cycle
[11:57] <tbf> seb128: no, you cannot. because when you press alt-tab, the focus already went to the next application
[11:57] <seb128> no it doesn't?
[11:57] <seb128> I can press alt-tab, hit esc and keep typing here
[11:57] <tbf> seb128: so you cannot easily alt-tab between two browser windows, mail compositor and message list, and so on
[11:58] <seb128> well you couldn't before either
[11:58] <seb128> the old switcher didn't sort "by application"
[11:58] <seb128> I would argue it's easier to do with the new one since you get a specific keybinding for that
[11:59] <seb128> note that you can change the keybinding in ccsm if you don't like the default one
[12:00] <tbf> seb128: just tried again: switched to evolution. pressed reply button. once the composer appeared i press alt-tab and end in xchat, instead of the message list
[12:00] <tbf> seb128: when i keep tab pressed, then also xchat gets focused
[12:01] <seb128> that seems a bug
[12:01] <tbf> so to select the message list i'd have to move back and wait until the view zooms
[12:02] <seb128> the "by application" thing is a bit annoying sometimes yes :-(
[12:02] <seb128> hum lunch is ready
[12:02] <seb128> bbiab
[12:03] <seb128> tbf, I'm not saying the new one is perfect btw, some things are nicer some are confusing
[12:03] <seb128> there are some bugs as well that will be fixed this cycle
[12:04] <tbf> maybe caused by the "bias current view port setting"?
[12:05] <tbf> after disabling that setting, alt-tab returns me to the message list
[12:05] <tbf> so maybe "bias current view port" must be done differently?
[12:06] <tbf> seb128: what's the deadline for bugfixes? must decide when to look at this
[12:06] <tbf> or if i'll just file a bug for now
[12:06] <kamstrup> pitti: do you know which dbus version we'll ship for P?
[12:07] <pitti> kamstrup: well, "know" is a strong word; but unless we have a really strong reason to go to 1.5, 1.4.x
[12:07] <tbf> well... maybe let's file a bug first anyway.
[12:07] <pitti> kamstrup: I don't know whether there will be more bug fix releases after .16, but I guess that wouldn't make a difference?
[12:08] <kamstrup> pitti: right, it's not a huge deal - but there is some unity stuff that *might* be affected by upgrading to 1.5.6 or later
[12:08] <kamstrup> because of the eavesdrop heade
[12:08] <kamstrup> rr
[12:10] <kamstrup> it would be nice with a heads up if it's going in at least
[12:11] <pitti> kamstrup: understood
[12:11] <pitti> kamstrup: but anyway, right now we have just about zero problems with dbus, so no reason for us to upgrade
[12:12] <tbf> hey, should have looked there first: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/863399
[12:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863399 in unity "Unity needs a way to switch (tab) between windows on current workspace" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:19] <tbf> especially i like mark's outlook :-) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/863399/comments/25
[12:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863399 in unity "Unity needs a way to switch (tab) between windows on current workspace" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, bug fixes can came late in the cycle
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, the next unity version will do alt-tab by workspace btw
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, so that deprecated the current workspace bias thing
[12:26] <seb128> kamstrup, pitti: do you know if there is a 1.6 schedule?
[12:26] <pitti> I don't
[12:26] <kamstrup> not that I know of
[12:29] <tbf> seb128: yup, mark's post sounds very encouraging
[12:29] <tbf> seb128: just got confirmed feeling home in unity ;-) (sounding like a fanboy now?)
[12:30] <seb128> ;-)
[12:56]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:06] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin,
[13:06] <GunnarHj> pitti: Do you possibly have a few minutes to complete the bug 868346 MPs? I've updated the branch and am available on IRC now for possible follow-up questions.
[13:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 868346 in lightdm "Language selector broken in Ubuntu" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868346
[13:41] <pitti> hello GunnarHj
[13:41] <pitti> ah, can take a look
[13:41] <GunnarHj> pitti: Good!
[13:42] <pitti> so locale -a is guaranteed to always have an .utf8 offset?
[13:42] <pitti> s/offset/suffix for UTF-8 locales/
[13:42] <GunnarHj> pitti: Haven't seen it documented...
[13:43] <pitti> GunnarHj: sorry for being picky about the dup/free stuff, I tend to get carried away with those :)
[13:43] <pitti> but there were some actual leaks which should get fixed
[13:43] <GunnarHj> pitti: That's great; memory management in C is a black hole to me so far...
[13:44] <pitti> GunnarHj: not only to you; it's so trivial to get it wrong, guess why we still have to live with so many crashes and memory leaks even in the the 21st century when computers are way faster than we ever need :)
[13:44] <GunnarHj> pitti: As regards locale -a, we have relied on it in Natty and Oneiric (and in Lucid and Maverick backports).
[13:45] <pitti> </rant about C"lapping stones together">
[13:45] <GunnarHj> pitti: What you are saying, basically, is that learning C based on how others do it is not recommended...
[13:46] <dobey> "Unable to send item to calendar 'Personal'.  No such interface `org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Calendar' on object at path /org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/Calendar/10292/4" :(
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: no, I'm saying that writing complex software in C is impossible for a human to get right
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: computers are so much better when it comes to the task of counting references :)
[13:47] <dobey> it's not impossible; just hard
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: I'm just ranting against C, don't take me too seriously
[13:47] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. No wonder why i love Perl. :)
[13:47] <dobey> especially if the platform is also broken
[13:47] <pitti> (or personal)
[13:47] <dobey> it is much easier to write completely horribly broken software in python, actually :)
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> i like C!
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> but then, i'm weird
[13:48] <dobey> complex software in python is harder to get right, than in C, i think
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> me too. i find python harder than C
[13:49] <dobey> but what do i know; i've only been programming in various forms for over 20 years :P
[13:49] <pitti> well ¬C ≠ Python :)
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> i guess that having a hardware background means that my brain is wired that way around ;)
[13:49] <dobey> chrisccoulson: ASM FTW!
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:50] <pitti> but I don't buy that developers want to/should do reference counting instead of compilers
[13:50] <pitti> because they effing don't get it right
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> the first bit of software i did at college was in machine code!
[13:50] <pitti> it's not like computers had a counting disability or so
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, that's why i like scoped pointers in C++ :-)
[13:50] <pitti> right
[13:51] <dobey> pitti: you're not familiar with computers, are you? :)
[13:51] <dobey> "OH SORRY YOU COUNTED TOO HIGH, YOUR NUMBERS ARE NEGATIVE NOW!"
[13:52] <bigon> pitti: uploaded
[13:52] <pitti> \o/
[13:52] <dobey> besides, Python is written in C anyway
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:53] <pitti> languages like Ocaml or Eiffel got that right decades ago
[13:53] <pitti> anyway, back to work
[13:53] <pitti> GunnarHj: so, I'm not quite clear about the purpose of this branch yet:
[13:54] <pitti> GunnarHj: is that mean to be an SRU-only hack for oneiric, or something for trunk eventually?
[13:54] <pitti> GunnarHj: (context: calling internal helper tools from accountsservice)
[13:54] <seb128> vala for the win!
[13:54] <pitti> that might be acceptable for an SRU, but is no-go for trunk or even precise
[13:54] <pitti> seb128++
[13:54]  * pitti carefully unref()'s seb129 again to be back into his olds tate
[13:55] <pitti> "old state"
[13:55] <GunnarHj> pitti: No, it's meant to be both for now. But I intend to get rid of that direct call during the Precise dev. cycle.
[13:56] <dobey> seb128: FTL, because so many things one needs to use are not GObject-based and don't have girs and aren't bound :(
[13:56] <GunnarHj> pitti: Guess it would be confusing to not upload it to trunk/Precise, wouldn't it?
[13:56] <pitti> GunnarHj: it's at least against the SRU policy (fix stuff in dev release first and then backport)
[13:57] <GunnarHj> pitti: Yeah, that's what you usually say. :)
[13:58] <GunnarHj> pitti: How about writing a bug report about it targeted Precise?
[13:58] <pitti> GunnarHj: we can use above bug
[13:58] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok.
[14:18] <pitti> GunnarHj: MP updated; good progress!
[14:19] <GunnarHj> pitti: Did you mean MP uploaded?
[14:19] <pitti> no, sent my review comments
[14:19] <GunnarHj> pitti: Aha. Will look.
[14:19] <pitti> pedro_: with "draft" I primarily mean "set up work items and description and flip status to pending approval"
[14:20] <pitti> pedro_: it looks fine to me, so if you are done with teh blueprint, please set to review, and I'll approve it
[14:20] <pedro_> pitti, ok! i'm only missing the status then, will do it
[14:20] <pedro_> pitti, thanks!
[14:22] <pitti> pedro_: thanks to you!
[14:28] <GunnarHj> pitti: Will make those additional updates later today. Thanks!
[14:28] <pitti> GunnarHj: great, thanks!
[14:28] <pitti> I hope you can catch Robert at some point
[14:28] <GunnarHj> pitti: Will try.
[14:29] <pitti> GunnarHj: I saw your other two MPs (accountsservice/l-s), will get to them by tomorrow
[14:30] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, fine. I think they require some discussion as well, but you'd better familiarize yourself with them first.
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> it's all seb128's fault
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[15:24] <seb128> what what what?!
[15:24]  * chrisccoulson prepares for more shoulder poking
[15:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you should, poke poke poke, what did I do? ;-)
[15:25] <seb128> is it fixed yet?! ;-)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> nothing. i just needed someone to blame :)
[15:25] <rodrigo_> :)
[15:26] <didrocks> stop blaming, the only one we can blame is chrisccoulson because of nvidia and firefox :p
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> heh
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> that's harsh ;)
[15:27]  * chrisccoulson cries
[15:28] <seb128> we can blame it for tb as well!
[15:29] <seb128> oh, and the fact that ubuntu has no calendar!
[15:29] <seb128> didrocks, that game is too easy, it's no fun! I like the "is it fixed yet" poking game better ;-)
[15:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? poke ;-)
[15:33] <didrocks> seems it's not, or that he just ignores you now :p
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> gah
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> my name was character limited
[15:34] <seb128> :p
[15:34] <seb128> damn, I missed the opportunity to blue you :p
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:58] <rodrigo_> bug 806248
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 806248 in unity "No icons shown in Unity launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806248
[16:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes?
[16:03] <didrocks> rodrigo_: you get it?
[16:07] <rodrigo_> didrocks, seb128: no, danilo was asking me about this bug, so needed the link :)
[16:08] <didrocks> he has some hw having this issue?
[16:08] <seb128> didrocks, seems so by reading his recent comment
[16:09] <seb128> on the bug
[16:10] <didrocks> oh indeed, I was stucked on the name, not the nickname :)
[16:11] <didrocks> seems a nux issue, will ping jay about it
[16:11] <rodrigo_> didrocks, see #ayatana, he was asking who might be intertested in some debugging
[16:11] <didrocks> rodrigo_:  I pinged jay
[16:12] <rodrigo_> didrocks, ok
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> right, will be back in a bit
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> popping out for dinner for my daughters birthday :)
[16:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, have fun! ;-)
[16:47] <pitti> good night everyone!
[16:48] <pitti> well, will be back for TB meeting, but nothing else
[16:48] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:48] <seb128> pitti, oh, I'm off tomorrow, just for info (still quite some holidays to use so I'm taking fridays)
[16:49] <pitti> seb128: enjoy!
[16:49] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[16:49] <didrocks> see you on Monday as well pitti!
[17:04] <rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
[22:51] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, does the current firefox beta actually work on arm?
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> i was just looking through the build log, and there are thousands of these:
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> /usr/bin/ld.bfd.real: BFD (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) <IP_ADDRESS>11025 assertion fail ../../bfd/elf32-arm.c:12049
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> but the builds still succeeds
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> just wondering if the binary actually works :)
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> the tests run, so i guess it does
[23:20] <robert_ancell> The ubuntu-desktop package is generated from a seed right?  Is there any special process for SRUing a change to a seed?
[23:21] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: You would need to make the change to the seed in bzr, then ubuntu-meta needs to be refreshed and uploaded to get the change from the seed.
[23:22] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, so ubuntu-meta is manually generated from the seed?  And the SRU team can do this?
[23:22] <robert_ancell> (and can I update the seed now, or does it need to be proposed)
[23:23] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: The ubuntu-meta package has a script that refreshes the binary package dependencies from the bzr branch containing the seeds, which will need to go through proposed. THe seed change can be made in bzr at any time, but it probably still needs running past ubuntu-sru first.
[23:24] <robert_ancell> I think I'll wait for pitti
[23:24] <TheMuso> Ok.


[08:08]  * apw yawns
[08:48] <apw> jxself, i would assume that 3.8.7 was based off the config for the 3.9.x series kernels in saucy, and 3.8.8 was based off the config fo ther 3.10.x series kernels in saucy (which we just switched to)
[08:48] <apw> jxself, and as i don't see that option in the current kernel it would likely default off
[08:49] <apw> one assumes they have gotten rid of the option there because it is always on
[08:49] <apw> a limitation on how the configs are made up for mainline builds
[09:58] <apw> jxself, i have put together a hack to use a slightly closer config (in theory) and the build from that should be popping out in the next hour; if you could see if that works any better
[13:13]  * henrix -> lunch
[13:22]  * ppisati goes out for a bit
[14:10] <Trevinho> Hello, since the upgrade to kernel 3.10 in saucy, I can't boot anymore using the radeon.audio=1 cmdline...
[14:10] <Trevinho> What can help for debugging?
[14:10] <Trevinho> See bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1195687
[14:10] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1195687 in linux (Ubuntu) "Init crashes with kernel 3.10.0 when using radeon.audio=1" [Undecided,New]
[14:43] <jxself> apw: Thank you for your work on 3.9.8. It appears that everything is back.
[15:04] <apachelogger> what would be the best way to get bug 1196556 fixed in raring?
[15:04] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1196556 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "Hot plug events not detected in i965" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196556
[15:06] <xnox> apachelogger: first needs to be fixed in saucy, then can be SRUed into raring.
[15:07] <apachelogger> I am not sure I'd want to do a kernel upload ^^
[16:32] <apw> apachelogger, has the fix even hit linus' tree yet ?
[16:32] <apw> i don't see it
[16:33] <apw> jsalisbury, perhaps one for monitoring ^^
[16:33] <jsalisbury> apw, ack
[16:35] <jsalisbury> apachelogger, I'll keep an eye out for that fix in Linus' tree.  I'll submit and SRU for Raring if it does'nt have the CC to stable
[16:35] <apw> jsalisbury, a star as always
[16:36] <jsalisbury> apw :-)
[16:38] <jsalisbury> apachelogger, If you have a chance, can you test the kernel from: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/drm-intel-nightly/2013-07-01-saucy/
[16:53] <geekatcmu> Is there an "easy" way for me to find out if/when a particular patch (in this case, the 3.4 XFS accounting patch) was backported into the Precise kernels?
[17:03] <henrix> geekatcmu: option 1: look at precise git tree; option 2: you can try to use this fancy tool: http://o.cs.uvic.ca:20810/perl/cid.pl
[17:04] <geekatcmu> Thanks.
[17:05]  * geekatcmu makes a sad face
[17:06] <geekatcmu> http://o.cs.uvic.ca:20810/perl/cid.pl?cid=3948659e30808fbaa7673bbe89de2ae9769e20a7 doesn't seem to have been back-ported to the Precise kernel.
[17:06] <geekatcmu> Thanks, anyway!
[17:06] <geekatcmu> (it's part of the 3.4 series)
[17:34] <jxself> apw: That makes me wonder: How is the config generated? Is there some program or[D[D[D[D[D[D[D script or something I can reference?
[17:34] <jxself> Hmmm. Not sure why that came out like that.
[17:34] <apw> jxself, we take the config from the release we are targetting and 'make oldconfig' on it with the tree we are building
[17:35] <apw> jxself, though since the changes i make today it now use the nearest ubuntu version within that release
[17:35] <jxself> Ah, that's it? OK.
[21:06] <apachelogger> jsalisbury: will try thanks :)
[22:53] <geofft> Hm, can I bug people with enablement stack questions here? Or is #ubuntu-devel or something more appropriate?
[22:56] <bjf> it's late in the day but it never hurts to ask
[22:57] <geofft> Basically, I think, 1) when are we expecting to see the -lts-raring graphics stack? (Is it intentional that the -lts-raring kernel exists already?)
[22:58] <bjf> yes, it's intentional that the -lts-raring kernel exists already. as soon as raring released, the lts-raring kernel was ready
[22:58] <geofft> 2) Is there/will there be a corresponding -eol-upgrade package for the graphics stack as well as the kernel?
[22:59] <geofft> 3) Is there a metapackage for the latest -lts-whatever?
[22:59] <bjf> i'm not sure why there isn't a lts-raring graphics stack yet (i think there will be one). i'd expect a similar -eol-upgrade for graphics as kernel
[23:01] <geofft> Well, I don't see an xserver-xorg-lts-quantal-eol-upgrade, either, I think?
[23:01] <bjf> all the graphics stack folks are in earlier timezones
[23:02] <geofft> OK, guess the end of the day in California is a poor time to ask questions :)
[23:02] <bjf> are you PST timezone?
[23:03] <bjf> i should know the answers to all of that but i just don't, sorry
[23:04] <geofft> Yes, and also not a morning person unfortunately
[23:05] <bjf> ack
[23:05] <bjf> so yes, the morning is a better time to reach folks or an email to the ubuntu kernel team mailing list
[23:06] <bjf> geofft, your PDX ?
[23:09] <bjf> slangasek, ^ you know the answers for the graphics stack?
[23:10] <slangasek> mmm, not precisely, sorry
[23:10] <bjf> s'ok, thought maybe
[23:10] <slangasek> I do expect the lts-raring graphics stack before 12.04.3, but I don't know if mlaankhorst has started work on it yet
[23:10] <bjf> ack
[23:10] <bjf> it's coming up quickly
[23:11] <slangasek> but what's eol-upgrade?  is that part of the revised plan ogasawara came up with after sabdfl pushed back on the "automatically upgrade users to the supported stack" question?
[23:12]  * slangasek doesn't know the details on that or where it's documented
[23:12] <bjf> i think it's so we don't leave people hanging on unsupported lts-hwe installs
[23:12] <bjf> "in the wiki"
[23:12] <slangasek> well, in fact the current plan is that people *will* be allowed by default to hang on them
[23:12] <slangasek> because sabdfl objected quite strongly to having them auto-upgraded to a kernel that might regress hardware support
[23:13] <slangasek> so instead they'll be notified when their kernel goes eol
[23:13] <bjf> yes but i thought we were going to provide a "automagic upgrade package" for folks that did want that (but i could have just made that up)
[23:13] <slangasek> but I don't know if there are meant to be additional metapackages in support of this
[23:13] <slangasek> maybe so, I don't know :)
[23:22] <geofft> bjf: SF/Bay Area, actually
[23:23] <bjf> geofft, ack
[23:23] <geofft> slangasek: Yeah, there appear to be no docs about -eol-upgrade other than its own package description.
[23:23] <slangasek> right... so you probably want to hit up the person who uploaded it :)
[23:24] <geofft> Hm, can you use the lts-raring kernel with an older graphics stack? Or is the use case overly-new headless servers or something?
[23:24]  * bjf puts money down on who that was
[23:25] <bjf> geofft, you should be able to use it with an older graphics stack
[23:26] <slangasek> geofft: can you... yes.  Is it supported/validated... no.  The lts-raring kernel is meant to be used in conjunction with an lts-raring graphics stack, which may just not be packaged yet
[23:26] <geofft> sconklin, looks like. "* UBUNTU: Provide an EOL upgrade meta package"
[23:26] <geofft> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta-lts-quantal/<IP_ADDRESS>.39
[23:27] <bjf> geofft, that's just the regular lts-quantal meta package
[23:27] <bjf> geofft, let me see who added that commit
[23:29] <bjf> geofft, rtg did the commit, he's out this week
[23:32] <bjf> geofft, in the a.m. ogasawara can give all the details
[23:32] <bjf> geofft, you missed her by about 2.5 hrs.
[23:32] <geofft> OK, I'll re-ask tomorrow morning. Thanks!
[23:32] <bjf> but email is a "fine" thing for this


[14:04] <MobileDruif> sladen: same question ;)
[14:04] <sladen> MobileDruif: eh?
[14:05] <sladen> reminds me of watching  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Date_%28UK_TV_series%29  years ago
[14:05] <MobileDruif> Right...
[14:05] <sladen> "same question to number 3"
[14:05] <MobileDruif> Ghehe
[14:06] <MobileDruif> Can there be anything said about this project now your all chatty again in ubuntu-tv?
[14:09] <sladen> MobileDruif: I don't know what work yourself/others have done (Canonical are not the only people working on Ubuntu).  People have been busy since UDS taking those ideas and trying to get something together for CES (Ubuntu TV)
[14:10] <sladen> MobileDruif: since a phone is a bigger problem, it's going to take longer, at whatever point there are enough ideas to start looking at something
[14:11] <MobileDruif> Agreed, but I was wondering if there was any news from the Canonical side
[14:11] <popey> Yes, there is news, news of the TV Concept \o/
[14:12] <MobileDruif> Btw, tv is also massively different from normal computing ;)
[14:14] <MobileDruif> popey: you smart ass ;)
[14:15] <popey> I'm serious. We're madly busy on stuff. Phone is a distraction right now.
[14:16] <MobileDruif> I understand, but I thought there might be multiple teams at Canonical. So my question was also serious.
[14:16] <sladen> people have been busy making cake.  Eat it.  Dissect it, play with it.  Enjoy da taste
[14:17] <sladen> yes, I know ice-cream *and* cake would be lovely, but you get fat quickly, and there aren't enough cooks around to make both at once anyway
[14:18] <MobileDruif> Okay, okay! I get the point :)


 Is it possible to install Ubuntu touch on OnePlus 3
 If yes how ?
 @Francoisfd [Is it possible to install Ubuntu touch on OnePlus 3], a port has been started but it is not complete yet https://github.com/Halium/projectmanagement/issues/63
 @Francoisfd Also this:
 Fwd from advocatux: You can try (and help with) this though https://github.com/Vince1171/OnePlus3-T-Halium-Prebuild :)
 Thanks
 Asciicinema? Oh my
 Welp and then i find this https://asciinema.org/
 When did uadblock lose its categories?
 @hallyn [FeketeZoli: thanks much for your facebook notifier!  based on it i'm now using h …], Great, I'm really glad.
[05:09] <ubptgbot> bright Olawuyi was added by: bright Olawuyi
[05:09] <ubptgbot> <bright Olawuyi> Welcome!💎💰Get Your Earn 9.99% Interest Ethereum Per Day💵 - 100% Asset-Backed Guarantee🏦 … 🎉Join and get your guaranteed 9.99% interest per day💵📈 … https://t.me/Etheriumfundsbot?start=-568309090
 This is huge and a good argument for open source!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvTKikwUMRg
 @Flohack [This is huge and a good argument for open source!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v …], Nice one, but all we see are adverts on TV how secure iPhone and iOS is (lol) well, much worse then Google, I suppose. ( at least with Android phones you might have a choice to flash Lineage without Gapps, no great, but better) and the winne
[08:18] <ubptgbot> r is Ubuntu Touch in this case. Love Ubuntu Touch ❤
 @Flohack [This is huge and a good argument for open source!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v …], [Edit] Nice one, but all we see are adverts on TV how secure iPhone and iOS is (lol) well, much worse then Google, I suppose. ( at least with Android phones you might have a choice to flash Lineage without Gapps, no great, but better) and th
[08:37] <ubptgbot> e winner is Ubuntu Touch in this case.( yet, no OS is unhackable, sometimes I do miss 1990 and no mobile phones world) Love Ubuntu Touch ❤
 @Stefano0101 [Nice one, but all we see are adverts on TV how secure iPhone and iOS is (lol) we …], I miss those days too
 I think if you really tried you would find a million bugs / security issues with Ubuntu Touch as well. … That's just how software works
 meh. My experience is that any party clamoring their product X is more secure than other's product Y is about to get their words handed to them with some embarassing leaking CPU or other oversight-turned-exploit. … the real and actual benefit of open source is that those leaks are actually being spotted, publicized and fixed instead of
[08:49] <ubptgbot>  being ignored, swept under a rug and sold to china
 @malditobastardo [I miss those days too], Maybe the old Nokias were the most secure :-)
 [Edit] meh. My experience is that any party clamoring their product X is more secure than other's product Y is about to get their words handed to them with some embarassing leaking CPU or other oversight-turned-exploit. this incudes linux in all it's flavors. … the real and actual benefit of open source is that those leaks are actually
[08:51] <ubptgbot>  being spotted, publicized and fixed instead of being ignored, swept under a rug and sold to china
 [Edit] meh. My experience is that any party clamoring their product X is more secure than other's product Y is about to get their words handed to them with some embarassing leaking CPU or other oversight-turned-exploit. this incudes linux in all its flavors. … the real and actual benefit of open source is that those leaks are actually
[08:51] <ubptgbot> being spotted, publicized and fixed instead of being ignored, swept under a rug and sold to china
 not really
 https://simjacker.com/
 @malditobastardo [I miss those days too], [Edit] Maybe the old Nokias were the most secure :-) ( thwre was just sms and calling, so no really data to steal or compromise, apart from eavesdropping )
 @LEOLEOSP [I think if you really tried you would find a million bugs / security issues with …], Well at least we are fed by Canonicals security updates, as far as it concerns common code, and that means we might get patches rathher quickly available
 @Flohack [Well at least we are fed by Canonicals security updates, as far as it concerns c …], Sure, but I firmly believe that there is no such thing as secure software (or hardware)
 Ubuntu ports does not detect me mobile
 I come from lineage os, I have USB debugging enabled, and I do it from Windows 10 ltsc
 @Dean32 [Ubuntu ports does not detect me mobile], We need more info, which device, which version of the installer wtc. Did you install UniversalADB drivers? What does adb devices tell
 Device Nexus 4, puse los drivers adb
 We have a welcome channel to help with installs
 @Dean32 [Device Nexus 4, puse los drivers adb], Please join https://t.me/WelcomePlus
 Ok thanks
[12:14] <ubptgbot> Rahulshy2k7 was added by: Rahulshy2k7
 Need help
 I buy a group channel
 He add me as a admin and he lift
 Now i cant make other admin
 @Rahulshy2k7 [Need help], That is not related with ubports
 (Photo, 1002x524) https://irc.ubports.com/WU6axPGd.png
 I hav only dis power
 Can u please suggest wht to do?
 @Rahulshy2k7 this is not a support channel for your Telegram group.
 Please suggest any channel who help?
 @Rahulshy2k7 [Please suggest any channel who help?], Or just use,duckduckgo
 Thq
 perhaps it's time we removed "supergroup" from the title
 @dohbee [perhaps it's time we removed "supergroup" from the title], good point
 I agree
 Why would anyone buy a telegram group
 it has nothing to do with ubports/ubuntu touch eitherway
 Who's administrator?
 [Edit] Who's administer?
 multiple people, why?
 Tp change the name.
 [Edit] To change the name.
 i can
 as can Florian
 Do it some of you. Now.
 no need to be demanding :)
 Just remove supergroup or make it more descriptive?
 Just to note, it will be hard for many that spot it by its name in the chatlist. Hopefully everyone can see the rename info. Need to check if we have this implemented in teleports ;)
[14:46] <hallyn> so far so good with the ubpush-enabled newmail script.  Except that my 3G data seems very unreliable.  Not sure whehter to blame the phone, the network-manager used in the image, or just my cell provider...
[14:46] <hallyn> might have to add a script to reset network automatically when it detects it's offline


[00:10] <GridCube> dbolton_, nope
[00:11] <GridCube> you could help editing thunar and adding it to the code though P:
[00:16] <dbolton_> GridCube, Do you know of any file searchers that show context (even if they are not integrated with any file manager)?
[00:17] <GridCube> unity lens come to mind
[00:18] <GridCube> dbolton_, maybe this http://www.webupd8.org/2013/06/synapse-indicator-new-search.html
[00:19] <dbolton_> ok thanks
[00:20] <GridCube> this might be relevant too dbolton_ http://www.webupd8.org/2013/05/desktop-search-tool-recoll-updated-with.html
[00:20] <GridCube> there are many desktop searchers though
[02:44] <RlolZ> I enjoyed messing w studio when it had xfce + nautilus...
[02:44] <Unit193> You can install nautilus if you'd like.
[02:46] <RlolZ> never tried in .deb, but on fedora 13 I tried to do openbox + nautilus... lol, no go
[02:47] <RlolZ> I thought it made studio unique, I can apt-get whatever, but can't get nautilus to play nice with desktop/wallpaper/right-click
[02:53] <RlolZ> Its been 12+ years since I've been on IRC, but I am way to paranoid without a cloak... keep checking that there's, in fact, only 1 port open
[02:53] <RlolZ> g2g, lol
[08:33] <gartral> hey all, I have a newer Blade Servre that I'm looking to migrate my current server too, any thoughts on best practices?
[08:33] <cfhowlett> gartral, great question for #ubuntuserver!
[08:34] <gartral> this migration consists of a direct HDD transplant from my current server to the new one
[08:34] <gartral> cfhowlett: I thought I was in @ubuntuserver, my apologies!
[08:34] <cfhowlett> gartral, no worries.
[09:39] <dan-roger> hej
[14:41] <mbeierl> Anyone know why zietgeist is turned on in US 13.04?  I don't need it if I'm not using Unity, correct?
[14:42] <SonikkuAmerica> mbeierl: Catfish has a dependency on it
[14:45] <mbeierl> SonikkuAmerica, thanks, but where is catfish used in US?
[14:45] <SonikkuAmerica> mbeierl: It's part of XFCE
[14:45] <SonikkuAmerica> !info catfish
[17:35] <idiotz> hello
[17:35] <holstein> o/
[17:50] <Xyco> is ubuntu studio's lowlatency kernel the same that is available in ubuntu vanilla?
[17:51] <zequence> Xyco: Yes, all Ubuntu flavors share the same repos
[17:51] <zequence> so, you can install any packages from any flavor
[17:51] <zequence> some settings you won't get enabled
[17:51] <Xyco> do you happen to know which ones?
[17:51] <zequence> the most important is adding yourself to audio group, if you need realtime privilege
[17:52] <zequence> and, the other is really just swappiness, which you get from installing ubuntustudio-default-settings
[17:52] <zequence> to add yourself to audio group: sudo usermode -a -G audio $USER
[17:53] <zequence> sudo usermod -a -G audio $USER
[17:53] <zequence> (no e for the usermod command)
[17:55] <Xyco> zequence, thank you
[21:02] <soundblastdj> 12345689
[23:12] <Apollo> Hello - anybody there available to assist me getting Jack working with my recording interface?


[05:23] <Kilos> morning za peeps
[06:04] <nuvolari> \o
[06:04] <nuvolari> oh hi oom Kilos :)
[06:04] <nuvolari> gaan dit goed?
[06:10] <Kilos> lo nuvolari ja dankie
[06:11] <Kilos> moes net gaan boom takke stukkies sny wat gisteraand se wind gebreek het
[06:34] <Kilos> wbb
[07:20] <magespawn> good morning
[07:24] <inetpro> good mornings everyone
[08:20] <Kilos> hi Kapanda
[08:25] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[08:32] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[08:38] <magespawn> how is new year Kilos?
[08:39] <magespawn> i am sure there should be a 'the' in that sentance somewhere
[08:42] <Kilos> haha
[08:42] <Kilos> just another year magespawn
[08:50] <magespawn> indeed
[08:58] <magespawn> lots of people attach significance to the 'new' year though
[09:03] <Kilos> yeah so funny
[09:03] <Kilos> major old year party and wake into new year broke and with a hangover
[10:30] <nuvolari> ja ons waai weg hier in die kaap ook
[10:31] <nuvolari> Ek was darem dankbaar vir die koel weer gisteraand
[10:34] <Kilos> nog steeds warm hier maar hulle se dit mag miskien reen later
[11:51] <magespawn> it threatened to rain here earlier in the north west
[12:19] <gremble> We had thunder
[12:19] <gremble> Not the blew away
[12:24] <MaNL> we should celebrate new years for all the older calendar systems as well, imagine how much more partying could get done
[13:01] <Kilos> inetpro clouds building lekker
[13:01] <Kilos> very hot outside
[14:14] <Kilos> inetpro maybe you should go home
[14:15] <Kilos> before the white stones start falling
[14:43] <Kilos> maybe only gonna happen after the wind turns around
[14:43] <Kilos> sigh
[14:49] <Kilos> wind swapped direction
[15:10] <magespawn> later all
[16:01] <Kilos> sounds like its storming by goosie
[17:37] <Kilos> hmm... storm killed my connection and dropped 4mm water
[18:08] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[21:29] <superfly> inetpro: http://bin.snyman.info/
[21:34] <superfly> hrm, now that it's a little better, I should upload it to Launchpad
[21:36] <superfly> hi gremble
[21:38] <gremble> Hey superfly
[21:38] <gremble> How are you?
[21:38] <superfly> I'm doing OK, how are you?
[21:39] <gremble> I am well thank you. Tried to sleep, but I suspect that that isn't happening tonight
[21:41] <superfly> ah
[21:42] <superfly> I've just updated my pastebin "clone" finally, and I'm uploading it to Launchpad so that other people can tell me how bad my code is
[21:42] <gremble> Haha. if you want someone to tell you how bad your code is, why not submit a patch to the kernel?
[21:44] <superfly> https://launchpad.net/stickynotes
[21:44] <superfly> gremble: I'm not a masochist
[21:44] <superfly> inetpro: https://launchpad.net/stickynotes
[21:45] <gremble> Nice :P
[21:45] <superfly> with the "reference implementation" at http://bin.snyman.info/
[21:48] <gremble> superfly: What do you use for syntax highlighting? Vim doesn't even come with such a large selection as some paste services, including yours, come with
[21:49] <superfly> gremble: pygments
[21:49] <gremble> Ah
[21:49] <gremble> I think I use that on my site for syntax highlighting. that or the ruby one. I can't remember what Jekyll uses
[21:50] <superfly> This is the exact code I use for the syntax highlighting: http://bin.snyman.info/mmmzatnw
[21:51] <gremble> That is quite simple
[21:52] <superfly> well, you make the person select the lexer when they create the note, and then pygments does the rest
[21:54] <gremble> https://i.imgur.com/n4Khbmi.jpg This beauty I caught in my room two days ago
[21:55] <gremble> That is probably how a editor's syntax highlighting does it as well, by selecting the lexer from the filetype
[22:02] <gremble> http://composingprograms.com/ SCIP but with python.
[22:03] <superfly> gremble: nice specimen!
[22:04] <gremble> I wish I could find an identification, but I haven't found a scorpion book in the bookstores
[22:04] <gremble> The internet is also not very helpful
[22:05] <gremble> I don't even know if 50/50 still exists to ask them :P
[22:06] <superfly> gremble: I've seen the type before
[22:07] <gremble> I see scorpions quite often, but tiny ones. This is the largest one that I have seen up close.
[22:09] <superfly> Maybe bottom right? http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/scorpions/dangerous.htm
[22:11] <superfly> http://www.scorpions.co.za/small-scorpion-gauteng/
[22:11] <gremble> http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/scorpions/scorpionidae/opistophthalmus_capensis.htm Looks more like that one, but that one seems to come from the cape
[22:12] <gremble> Ive checked that scorpions.co.za site, but they seem more concerned with promoting their book than being informative
[22:13] <superfly> ya, so I noticed
[22:14] <superfly> the pincers look too big for it to be venomous, in my opinion
[22:15] <gremble> All scorpions are venomous.  Those with thick tails will just cause you severe pain, where as those with larger pincers would cause less severe pain
[22:16] <gremble> But just like a tarantula, it may not be harmful, but I would rather not get stung :P
[22:16] <gremble> I wanted to become an entomologist when I was in school xD
[22:21] <superfly> heh. when you see your dad's friend's name under the "thanks" section
[22:21] <gremble> :P
[22:22] <superfly> Dr Nils Bergman. He used to live in Zimbabwe, now lives in Cape Town. He has a whole lot of scorpions in resin, which he caught in the course of his work in Zim.
[22:23] <superfly> Funnily enough, he's actually a gynae
[22:23] <gremble> For a while I thought about making an insect pinboard, but that is an insane amount of work to do


 @ctisme [how to know the bottleneck resource usage is on disk or  on memory ?], i want to upgrade the hardware
[00:39] <cynibrea> Hi. I set up a wi-fi connection in Preferences > Network Connections. How do I actually make it connect to the one I set up? "Automatically connect to this network when it is available" is ticked, and I rebooted, but it does not seem to connect.
[04:57] <Alex37> hi
[04:57] <Alex37> hi
[04:57] <Alex37> hi
[04:58] <Alex37> hi
[04:58] <krytarik> Alex37: Seriously, dude?
[04:59] <Alex37> can anyone help me on ubuntu 14.04.6
[05:00] <krytarik> Well, 1.) this is Lubuntu support, and 2.) 14.04 is EOL since April.
[05:01] <Alex37> which ver work on pentium m cpu
[05:01] <Alex37> ibm t42
[05:03] <Alex37> cause of pae
[05:07] <Alex37> anyone can help
[07:05] <CrazyTux> is lubuntu lxqt as stable as lubuntu lxde?
[07:05] <lynorian> more stable in some ways
[07:06] <CrazyTux> will I have to reinstall lubuntu lxqt when a new version comes out?
[07:06] <CrazyTux> the current version is 19.04. Will I have to reinstall 19.10?
[07:07] <CrazyTux> or can I keep upgrading to newer releases?
[07:07] <CrazyTux> when will LTS version of lubuntu lxqt be available?
[17:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> CrazyTux, you can upgrade. Next LTS version of lxqt in lubuntu will be 20.04


[19:13] <slangasek> cjohnston: hi, I have questions about lp:~cjohnston/charms/precise/summit/trunk/, would this be a good place to ask?
[23:50] <daker> slangasek: i beleive yes
[23:50] <slangasek> daker: well, ok.  will anyone other than cjohnston know the answers? :)
[23:51] <daker> slangasek: maybe :)
[23:52] <slangasek> so my main concern at the moment is the fact that the charm takes separate config parameters for the code vs. the theme
[23:53] <slangasek> but in practice, it doesn't seem workable for one's changes to be isolated entirely to the theme directory
[23:53] <slangasek> while using the common code base
[23:53] <slangasek> so I was wondering how people are using this in practice
[23:54] <daker> so is this a summit question or charm question ?
[23:55] <daker> ah charm
[23:58] <daker> slangasek: so i don't have an answer to this maybe cjohnston knows more about this
[23:59] <slangasek> well, the question isn't about the charm per se
[23:59] <slangasek> more about what the expected separation is between the "theme" and "code" branches, since they don't seem very separated to me


[22:48] <ziesemer> I'm on 17.10, having upgraded and not yet converted to Netplan.  Looking to better understand how an "iface ... manual" declaration (vs. "dhcp") declaration in /etc/network/interfaces still runs dhclient and uses DHCP - and how to get it to not.  (I don't want dhcp, I don't want static - I want manual...)
[22:48] <TJ-> sabrehagen: sorry, apt -> apt-get having the problem
[22:48] <mtdms> i dont like windows, but that kind of situations i need to use it
[22:49] <TJ-> ziesemer: are you sure it's not network-manager, or systemd-networkd, doing that?
[22:49] <CoJaBo> Is NFS better/worse than that? It seems like it'd be more common, but it's strange the guide doesn't seem to mention any possibility of running it remote at all :/
[22:50] <OerHeks> mtdms, if wine/playonlinux give no solution, vm is your last resort, virtualbox/vmware
[22:50] <ziesemer> TJ-: systemctl status on both of those show disabled and dead.
[22:50] <mtdms> virtualitation?
[22:51] <mtdms> OerHeks: thanks
[22:51] <sabrehagen> TJ-: can i see which files rely on libstdc++6?
[22:51] <mtdms> do you guys can use linux without needing mac os or windows?
[22:51] <sabrehagen> *files -> binaries
[22:51] <TJ-> ziesemer: did you check if there's another config in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ taking effect?
[22:51] <ziesemer> TJ-: The PPID on dhclient is 1 - so I was assuming it would be systemd somehow...
[22:52] <akik> CoJaBo: you'll be in a world of pain with nfs and flaky connections
[22:52] <ziesemer> TJ-: That dir is empty.
[22:52] <akik> CoJaBo: is the connectivity really a big problem for you? try to fix it first
[22:53] <raparkhurst> sere: thanks, i'm an idiot...i thought I'd done that before @ xorg.conf file, but I guess not (or put it in the wrong place)
[22:53] <TJ-> sabrehagen: see http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6HTh6mhXXV/
[22:53] <TJ-> ziesemer: OK, so the obvious culprits aren't in use. Can you pastebin the interfaces file?
[22:54] <TJ-> ziesemer: also, find out if you can identify why process started dhclient with "ps -efly | grep dhclient"
[22:54] <sabrehagen> TJ-: so using that list as inspiration, if i start firefox it gets the same error
[22:55] <sabrehagen> to be expected...
[22:55] <sabrehagen> Why would rebooting resolve this, and is there any way I can simulate that without an actual reboot?
[22:55] <ziesemer> TJ-: S root      2190     1  0  80   0  3000  4056 -      Feb22 ?        00:00:00 /sbin/dhclient -1 -v -pf /run/dhclient.eth0.4.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.eth0.4.leases -I -df /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient6.eth0.4.leases eth0.4
[22:55] <TJ-> sabrehagen: I think reboot. It can't make matters worse, and should cure it entirely
[22:56] <sabrehagen> TJ-: I don't have a live usb handy to save myself
[22:56] <sabrehagen> Which would make matters worse
[22:56] <ziesemer> Maybe I can't disable dhclient on the IPv6 half without doing the same on the IPv4 half?
[22:57] <TJ-> ziesemer: that's a very 'complete' command-line, which suggests it's controlled by the init system (systemd). check "systemctl status dhclient"
[22:57] <ziesemer> (I also need to prototype this on a VM without messing on my live server.)
[22:57] <sere_> raparkhurst: np lol.. let me know if you have and questions. i believe it took me like three days to get everything right haha but pretty much you can do anything
[22:57] <ziesemer> TJ-: Unit dhclient.service could not be found.
[22:57] <TJ-> ziesemer: that is possible, but I'd have thought it unlikely. operating 1 without the other is common
[22:58] <TJ-> ziesemer: hmmm, how about "systemctl status | grep dhclient" :D
[22:58] <TJ-> sabrehagen: there's the recovery boot option if it gets hairy
[22:58] <ziesemer> Specifically, I need to get the wide dhcp6 client working to request a /56 prefix, as the current version of the isc client in Ubuntu does not yet support such.  Assuming I need to stop dhclient first to avoid conflicts.
[22:59] <idodets> My ubuntu launcher and menu bar dissapeared now after installing updates, any advice? Running 16.04 lts, I think this might be related to this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/992571/gui-unity-crashing-in-16-04-lts-after-updates-2018-01-04-compiz-segfaults
[22:59] <TJ-> ziesemer: oh, hang on, there might be way... *goes off to read the man pages*
[22:59] <colemickens_> Does anyone know why 16.04 ISO contains a 'casper' dir that persists after burning with 'dd'... but 17.10 ISO includes a casper dir... but after 'dd' ing, it becomes a file on the USB drive?
[22:59] <sere_> raparkhurst: i think ubuntu by default deletes xorg.conf but you can still still make one and then edit the fluxbox or openbox's init for the workstations,apps,screens etc
[22:59] <colemickens_> This sounds like user error, but I can't find anything I'm doing wrong, it's a single dd command...
[23:00] <ziesemer> TJ-: Good luck.  I did read - but hopefully missed something!
[23:00] <TJ-> sabrehagen: run "sudo ldconfig"
[23:00] <TJ-> ziesemer: sorry! I tab-completed wrongly; that comment was for sabrehagen
[23:01] <sere_> raparkhurst: you can probably use whatever desktop manager you like though not sure how
[23:01] <TJ-> sabrehagen: after ldconfig try firefox or apt-get again
[23:02] <ziesemer> TJ: systemd parent is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>.  (Had to search manually, grep was hiding the parent...)
[23:03] <sabrehagen> TJ-: no luck :|
[23:03] <TJ-> sabrehagen: do a reboot :)
[23:03] <sabrehagen> I'm too afraid - I may never come back!
[23:05] <TJ-> sabrehagen: OK, well what else is there? you've got an out-of-support system with libraries apparently from 2 releases (16.04 and 17.04) that won't run the tools to do-release-upgrade to 17.10 due to the breakage?
[23:06] <sabrehagen> Get back to 16.04 state?
[23:06] <TJ-> sabrehagen: how about downloading the 17.10 ISO first and burning it to a DVD, or dd-ing it to a USB flash device?
[23:06] <sabrehagen> TJ-: I'm in the process of that now :)
[23:07] <TJ-> sabrehagen: not possible; if that system is predominantly 17.04 it can't go backwards.
[23:07] <TJ-> sabrehagen: OK, do that then you can if neeed repair from a Live environment with a chroot mount of the broken install
[23:07] <sabrehagen> TJ-: okay, thanks for the all the help :)
[23:08] <TJ-> sabrehagen: good luck - I think you're going to be in for a long night
[23:13] <ycyclist> Does anyone out there have a feeling for the quality of kvm?  So far it seems far less productive than vbox or docker to me.
[23:14] <colemickens_> wat
[23:14] <nacc> ycyclist: kvm is a technology
[23:14] <colemickens_> kvm, vbox and docker are wildly different things
[23:14] <nacc> ycyclist: and is totally unrelated to the other two
[23:15] <ycyclist> So far kvm seems like an old dying dog compared to vbox for making a simple ubuntu vm on an ubuntu host.
[23:16] <nacc> ycyclist: well, no one would use kvm directly for that (imo)
[23:16] <nacc> ycyclist: you'd use a cloud image, and possibly uvtool
[23:16] <colemickens_> Or libvirt+virt-manager if you want point-and-click.
[23:16] <ycyclist> Thank you.  That differs from my instructions, oddly.
[23:16] <colemickens_> I think PV support for Windows/vbox was better for a while, but I don't think anymore.
[23:17] <colemickens_> In my mind there's no reason to use vbox unless you need vagrant, where the boxes basically only ever work with vbox.
[23:17] <nacc> colemickens_: yeah good point
[23:17] <nacc> ycyclist: kvm is (in some ways) nothing more than qemu
[23:18] <ycyclist> I was using virt-manager.
[23:18] <nacc> ycyclist: you really don't want to use qemu directly :)
[23:18]  * colemickens_ has never even heard of uvtool somehow.
[23:18]  * colemickens_ also forgot he was in #ubuntu :)
[23:18] <nacc> colemickens_: it's the 'official' (currently) ubuntu virtualization frontned to libvirt/kvm
[23:18] <nacc> colemickens_: works really well for spinning up cloud images
[23:18] <nacc> the command is uvt-kvm
[23:19] <nacc> and it uses simplestreams data to know about images
[23:19] <akik> nacc: never say never :) i use kvm to test installation images :)
[23:19] <nacc> akik: yeah, i was going to say there is one case i can think of
[23:19] <ycyclist> By cloud, do you mean AWS, or some other vendor, or am I being dumb about something?
[23:19] <nacc> ycyclist: any of them, cloud images are made by Canonical for all Ubuntu releases
[23:23] <Outy> sorry to have to ask, but i don't get it: how do i write a shell script to open xfce4-terminal and execute the command mpv in this opened terminal ?
[23:25] <nacc> Outy: why would you do that?
[23:25] <sabrehagen> TJ-: I've downloaded a 17.10.1 iso to /boot/grml, have started a ubuntu:16.04 container and mounted /boot. If I run update-grub from inside the container, should everything be fine? e.g. will the hdX mappings be correct?
[23:25] <nacc> Outy: instead of just running mpv?
[23:26] <sabrehagen> I'm using the container because most binaries fail with the previous error we discussed
[23:28] <Outy> nacc: want to see the output in a terminal window when i shedule it as a job
[23:29] <Outy> nacc: I tried this: xfce4-terminal -e --maximize -h --command=mpv http://somafm.com/live130.pls
[23:30] <Outy> nacc: first line of script is #!/bin(/bash
[23:30] <akik> Outy: does that command work from a terminal?
[23:31] <nacc> Outy: schedule it?
[23:31] <Outy> akik: no
[23:31] <Outy> akik: i don't know why
[23:31] <akik> Outy: so it won't work from a  script either
[23:32] <nacc> Outy: almost certainly you need some quoting fro the command
[23:32] <nacc> right now the command is 'mpv' and you're passing the url to xfce4-terminal
[23:32] <akik> Outy: first line: "#!/bin/bash", second line "your command", then chmod +x your_script
[23:33] <Outy> akik: i know this will work... but it wont open a terminal windows and execute the command inside it. it will just run mpv and i cannot see the output of mpv
[23:33] <akik> Outy: usually with terminals, the command comes after the "-e"
[23:34] <akik> Outy: i don't have xfce installed here so can't test
[23:34] <genii> Remember to put a & after your command
[23:34] <nacc> Outy: if your script is just the xfce4-terminal command you pastedd above, then that's wrong
[23:35] <nacc> as I just said, you need to quote the command almost certainly
[23:35] <akik> Outy: -e and --command are the same, don't use both
[23:35] <akik> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/artful/man1/xfce4-terminal.1.html
[23:36] <Outy> so help me here please... i want to run mpv from a script. mpv should run in a terminal window to see the output
[23:36] <akik> Outy: you need to first get it running from a terminal
[23:36] <akik> Outy: then copy that line verbatim into your script
[23:37] <akik> Outy: also why did you put "-h" there? :)
[23:38] <akik> Outy: maybe: xfce4-terminal --maximize -e "mpv http://somafm.com/live130.pls"
[23:39] <Outy> akik: thanks found out at the same time as you
[23:39] <Outy> akik: xfce4-terminal --maximize -x mpv http://somafm.com/live130.pls --record-file=/media/hal9000/SanDisk\ SDXC/Robert_Rich_Sleep_Concert.aac
[23:39] <akik> Outy: -x ?
[23:39] <nacc> akik: takes the remainer of the commandline to -e
[23:39] <nacc> https://docs.xfce.org/apps/terminal/command-line
[23:39] <ycyclist> Ok.  Thank you.
[23:40] <nacc> sort of like -- to other commands, it seems like
[23:40] <akik> yea i wasn't sure about those "
[23:40] <Outy> akik: -x = Execute the remainder of the command line inside the terminal
[23:40] <nacc> Outy: and what does that do?
[23:44] <Outy> oh man ... command line works, but when running from script it says failed to execute child process
[23:48] <akik> Outy: pastebin the script and the error you get when you run it to paste.ubuntu.com
[23:48] <akik> Outy: it'll give you a url back
[23:50] <Outy> akik: script http://i.imgur.com/VAHtHg6.png
[23:51] <akik> Outy: i think it should find the binaries, but maybe you need to add the full path to both xfce4-terminal and mpv
[23:51] <akik> Outy: "which xfce4-terminal" and "which mpv"
[23:52] <Outy> akik: now its working
[23:52] <Outy> akik: but i don't know why it was not working before
[23:53] <Outy> akik: maybe the ghost in the machine
[23:53] <colemickens_> Still confused why the "casper" dir in the 17.10 iso turns into a "casper" file when I use `dd` to copy to a USB drive.
[23:53] <akik> ghost in the SHELL
[23:53] <colemickens_> This, as one might imagine, breaks the bootloading process.
[23:53] <colemickens_> 16.10.3 works fine.
[23:53] <Outy> akik: command inside the cript is now: xfce4-terminal --maximize -x mpv http://somafm.com/live130.pls --record-file=/media/hal9000/SanDisk\ SDXC/Robert_Rich_Sleep_Concert.aac
[23:54] <Outy> akik: like before but I don't know what went wrong before
[23:54] <Outy> crazy stuff
[23:55] <Outy> i like terminal and command line... but sometimes    not ^^
[23:56] <Jordan_U> colemickens_: How are you mounting the filesystem after dding it? How are you deterimining that it's now a "file" rather than a directory?


[21:17] <eliasps> Hi room
[21:51] <Mikaela> hi
[21:53] <eliasps> Hi Mikaela
[21:55] <amjjawad> eliasps, join #torios please
[21:55] <amjjawad> hello Mikaela
[21:56] <Mikaela> hi
[22:04] <eliasps> Why is it always so hard to find a wallpaper that you like?!
[22:06] <Mikaela> because they are so rare :(
[22:37] <amjjawad> eliasps, you are there?
[22:37] <amjjawad> KeithIMyers,
[22:37] <eliasps> Yeah I'm here
[22:38] <amjjawad> I don't think I can do the meeting now
[22:38] <amjjawad> maybe later today
[22:39] <eliasps> What time is it over there? Here is a little big later than midnight, so I don't know if I can do later.
[22:39] <amjjawad> it is 9:40am
[22:39] <eliasps> Unless later is in 10 hours from now, in the morning for me! :P
[22:40] <eliasps> How is it going with the needed roles amjjawad?
[22:41] <eliasps> Anyone stepping in?
[22:41] <amjjawad> for UG? not yet
[22:41] <amjjawad> we need to keep posting about that
[22:41] <amjjawad> eliasps, and KeithIMyers are we guys sharing the same post on both G+ and Fb?
[22:42] <eliasps> I don't know about Keith but when I share something it gets copied/pasted to every media
[22:42] <eliasps> So it's the same everywhere.
[22:42] <amjjawad> perfect
[22:43] <amjjawad> Yes, KeithIMyers is sharing that on G+ as well
[22:43] <amjjawad> amazing :D
[22:44] <eliasps> amjjawad about the needed roles, I could do blogging, everything on the testing section, and I could step in in HR and Brainstorming once I've understood the cause of those teams.
[22:44] <amjjawad> eliasps, it is an overkill at the moment
[22:44] <eliasps> I'm interested in packaging as well, but I need to make sure I have the time for that.
[22:44] <amjjawad> let's take it step by step
[22:44] <amjjawad> eliasps, indeed
[22:45] <amjjawad> time is your worst enemy
[22:47] <amjjawad> Ops, I didn't have my breakfast yet :D
[22:47] <amjjawad> cya everyone
[22:47] <eliasps> cya!


[08:21] <CTSae> could someone help me determine which kernel I should be running on a linux VM box?
[09:28] <apw> CTSae, i think you need to be more specific
[09:29] <CTSae> I've figured it out now ; )
[09:32] <apw> ok good


[13:21] <daker> antdillon: hi, sorry the noise, can you please ping him again i just want to take a look at the changes this w-e
[13:26] <antdillon> daker, Yeah sure, hes just out for lunch at the min
[13:26] <antdillon> daker, will remind him when he's back
[13:26] <daker> antdillon: thank you!
[13:26] <antdillon> daker, np


[06:03] <Znuff> Anyone tried installing Ubuntu Server this way: http://marc.herbert.free.fr/linux/win2linstall.html#ubuntu
[06:03] <Znuff> ?
[08:00] <shwag> There seems to be no clear line about whether to use Ruby on Rails from APT, or to use gems as the ruby on rails manager. The ruby on rails community that uses ubuntu all say to use ruby gems, but there is a whole ambiguous set of ruby on rails packages in the repositories that are not spoken for.
[08:01] <shwag> I would love to just use app as it seems this would simply configuration, but at the same time I dont want to be stuck with unsupported packages that are not in speed with the rest of the community.
[08:02] <shwag> s/app/apt
[08:04] <Burgwork> shwag: afaik, there is no clear policy for packaging gems yet
[08:05] <shwag> is there a Rails Ubuntu Team ?
[08:16] <techwhore> i never liked debian policy on perl packages myself.
[08:20] <techwhore> i think creating a gem2deb thing would be awesome.
[08:21] <techwhore> like creating a repository of gems in .deb format.
[09:42] <dura> I've been googling for a while now and I can't seem to see why the K8 kernel was obsoleted by the generic... ?
[09:42] <Burgwork> because the win of performance was in question and the testing wasn't worth it
[09:43] <dura> Makes sense
[09:43] <Burgwork> there is a thread on -devel about it
[09:43] <dura> I figured it was a reason similiar to that but wanted to read it from a dev.
[09:43] <dura> ahh okay...
[09:44] <dura> Close enough :)
[09:44] <Burgwork> heh
[09:44] <dura> I had Gentoo on my new server but got tired of it really quick. One gentoo install is enough ;)
[09:45] <Burgwork> never installed Gentoo
[09:46] <dura> it's not bad really. it's just not what I needed for what I want to do
[09:46] <dura> It's all I'll use on my laptops though.
[10:00] <Znuff> is there ANY freakin' way to install ubuntu-server if I ain't got a system that knows how to boot from a usb drive?!
[10:01] <Znuff> it's really getting on my nerves
[10:59] <Znuff> what is the correct md5sum for the ubuntu-6.10-server-i386.iso file?
[11:00] <Znuff> 'cose I've downloaded it 5 times already and I end up with the same md5sum, but not the one in the MD5SUM file


[05:35] <Muscovy> Is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ayatana the right place to make a blueprint about Unity adaptations?