[00:18] <owh> Yesterday I sent an email to the list about postfix and ethernet adapters. The two replies I got appear to refer to mapping postfix to an IP address, which in turn "connects" it to a physical adapter. Only, I cannot pre-determine what the IP address will be. What I really want is postfix to use whatever Internet connection there is. At the moment it just picks one and tells me that it cannot resolve an address.
[00:19] <giovani> owh: you're talking about a postfix bug?
[00:19] <owh> giovani: I don't think it's a bug, I think it's a "feature".
[00:20] <giovani> owh: ok, what do you want #ubuntu-server to do?
[00:20] <giovani> is there a question?
[00:20] <owh> Yes, I'm asking if there are thoughts on how postfix might be coerced into doing what I need it to do.
[00:21] <owh> Or if there are alternative approaches.
[00:22] <giovani> so you have two ethernet adapters, and both are getting dynamically assigned ips?
[00:22] <owh> Some background: There are two network adapters. They get their IP address from a DHCP server on the network. I'm running postfix to send out mail to an external smtp server.
[00:22] <owh> Yup
[00:23] <giovani> why do they both have to be dhcp?
[00:23] <friartuck> owh just a thought, postfix should be behind a firewall and nat'd. why don't you set them up with static addresses?
[00:25] <giovani> I'm not sure I'd advise NAT for any server, if avoidable
[00:25] <owh> Static IP is also not really possible.
[00:25] <giovani> you can't realistically run a mail server on the internet today on dynamic addresses
[00:25] <giovani> you'll get spam-filtered at most ISPs ... totally prevented from sending mail
[00:26] <owh> Well, if I connect via SSL to an external smtp server, all is just fine and dandy. I don't send mail out to the end-user, it goes via an extra hop.
[00:26] <bytor4232> giovani, You have to forward the ports, so it kinda defeats the purpose of NAT.  I totally agree.
[00:26] <owh> Incoming mail is via fetchmail.
[00:26] <giovani> bytor4232: and NAT is just messy and never advisable unless required
[00:26] <giovani> owh: ok, so you're not running an internet mail server
[00:26] <giovani> just a local one
[00:27] <owh> Yup
[00:27] <giovani> so I'm still unclear why you can't just issue inet_interfaces = all
[00:27] <giovani> and then have postfix use the default route
[00:27] <giovani> like it will by default
[00:27] <giovani> and listen on both interfaces
[00:28] <bytor4232> In the firefox profile directory, which file contains the stored password?
[00:28] <bytor4232> oops
[00:28] <bytor4232> sorry, wrong channel, sorry
[00:28] <owh> giovani: Well, inet_interfaces = all is already configured. It seems to just grab "the first interface" and then decide that it cannot resolve the smtp server.
[00:29] <giovani> owh: it "grabs" your default route
[00:29] <giovani> and if it can't resolve dns -- it sounds like your network settings aren't properly configured
[00:29] <owh> Right, so if the connected interface gets its IP address after postfix has started, it uses a bogus route and dies.
[00:30] <giovani> uh
[00:30] <giovani> your dhclient process should be running much earlier than postfix in startup
[00:30] <giovani> besides, how often is this server being rebooted that that's a problem?
[00:31] <giovani> maybe you need to rearrange your startup scripts
[00:31] <owh> giovani: The server is a laptop.
[00:31] <giovani> ...
[00:31] <giovani> sigh
[00:31] <giovani> rearrange your startup scripts -- something is wrong
[00:31] <giovani> no server processes should be starting before dhclient executes and finishes
[00:31] <giovani> otherwise they'd all have this problem
[00:32] <owh> Well, the "server" goes to sleep. When it wakes up, it takes a little while for the network to be available. The adapters are managed by Network Manager, postfix is always running.
[00:32] <giovani> haha
[00:33] <giovani> this isn't a postfix problem
[00:33] <owh> Excellent.
[00:33] <giovani> this is a ... don't run mail servers on laptops  with dual dhcp nics problem
[00:33] <owh> ROTFL
[00:33] <owh> Thanks, that was helpful :)
[00:33] <giovani> well, be serious
[00:33] <giovani> this setup of yours creates tons of problems
[00:33] <owh> I'm open to suggestions.
[00:34] <giovani> don't use a laptop
[00:34] <giovani> for your mail server
[00:34] <giovani> and why, if this is just an internal mail server, can you not use static ips?
[00:34] <owh> Because it's a laptop and it moves around - onto other networks :)
[00:34] <giovani> well don't do that
[00:34] <giovani> sounds like you need an internet mail server
[00:35] <giovani> either sitting at home on stationary hardware, or out on the internet on a $5/mo VPS
[00:36] <cjwatson> owh: restart postfix in /etc/network/if-up.d/ once everything is up?
[00:36] <owh> There is a long history behind this configuration. I am mobile. I have a satellite dish. I setup impromptu internet cafes alongside the road. People connect to my wifi hotspot and can send email.
[00:36] <owh> cjwatson: Will the id-up.d scripts run if Network Manager is in control?
[00:37] <giovani> yep, that's actually a decent idea
[00:37] <giovani> let's see if it works
[00:38] <owh> Hmm, there is already a postfix script there. It reloads if it's running, but I'm guessing that a reload won't re-check the route.
[00:39] <owh> There is also one in if-down.d - also reloads.
[00:40] <owh> What if I change reload to restart - any nasty side effects anyone can think of?
[00:41] <owh> You know, like mail vanishing that is currently being sent, "little" things like that?
[00:47] <owh> BRB
[00:50] <owh> Hmm, seems no scripts are running at all. There is bug #336736 pointing at pre and post scripts not running, but up and down are. I'm not seeing any run.
[01:52] <wizardslovak> hello people
[01:52] <wizardslovak> i am new to ubuntu server and i got couple questions
[01:53] <wizardslovak> i am about to to fresh install of os and how should i do my hard drive?? i mean boot, / , swap and more
[01:54] <twb> wizardslovak: how many users?  One, or more than one?
[01:55] <wizardslovak> this will be my personal server for test and study purposes and LAN for now
[01:55] <p_quarles> wizardslovak: in addition to number of users, it really depends on what kind of applications it will be running
[01:55] <wizardslovak> admin only me users only me
[01:55] <twb> wizardslovak: are you going to use software RAID?  Will there be a large amount of user data in /home (e.g. a file server)?
[01:55] <wizardslovak> i want to do web server (apache , mysql,php)
[01:56] <twb> OK, so it's a LAMP server?
[01:56] <wizardslovak> yes
[01:56] <twb> wizardslovak: are you using software RAID?
[01:56] <wizardslovak> this is my old machine celeron 2.4 , 512mb 80gb hda
[01:56] <wizardslovak> no
[01:58] <wizardslovak> its for study purposes , i always wanted to learn servers and command line
[01:58] <p_quarles> well, not many web projects are going to use anything approaching 80 gigs, so partitioning isn't going to be a terribly big concern for this machine
[01:58] <twb> I recommend you use LVM, first of all.
[01:58] <twb> LVM allows you to change your mind later.
[01:59] <wizardslovak> logical volume manager?
[01:59] <twb> Secondly, I recommend you allocate 4GiB to the root partition (/), and then (possibly after installation) allocate say 10GiB to /var/www or wherever you expect to put your data.  On a file server it would be /home.
[01:59] <wizardslovak> why?
[01:59] <twb> wizardslovak: yes.
[01:59] <twb> 11:02 <twb> LVM allows you to change your mind later.
[01:59] <twb> LVM allows you to resize partitions or move them between disks *while the system is running*.
[01:59] <p_quarles> yeah, for experimental stuff, it's hard to say in advance; better to put yourself in a position where you can change things as needed
[01:59] <wizardslovak> well thats what i wanted how many Gbs to what
[02:00] <twb> It's good to use LVM and only allocate what you need short-term, then lattr allocate more space when you need it
[02:00] <twb> e.g. 4GiB for root and 100GiB for /home (on a file server), and leave the other 376GiB unallocated.
[02:01] <wizardslovak> lol i got only 80gbs for now
[02:01] <p_quarles> on an 80 gb hard drive???
[02:01] <wizardslovak> yes
[02:01] <twb> wizardslovak: so allocate 4Gib and 10GiB.
[02:02] <wizardslovak> ok 4gb root, 1.5gb swap and 10gb /home
[02:02] <twb> It doesn't matter if you screw up with LVM, because you can allocate more later.
[02:02] <p_quarles> that system's unlikely to swap unless you go live with a high-traffic sight, so minimal swap should be okay
[02:02] <p_quarles> like 256MB
[02:02] <twb> wizardslovak: well in your case you probably won't have anything in /home, right?
[02:02] <p_quarles> again, you can increase as necessary
[02:02] <twb> Right.
[02:02] <wizardslovak> well no
[02:03] <p_quarles> it might actually not make any sense to use a separate /home partition then
[02:04] <p_quarles> separate /var would be more useful, if anything
[02:04] <wizardslovak> where then i will install lamp and www docs?
[02:04] <p_quarles> the default httpdocs directory is /var/www
[02:05] <p_quarles> you can change that to anywhere you like, but might as well leave it as is until you have a specific reason to change it
[02:05] <p_quarles> the elements of the LAMP stack go in /usr, /etc, and /lib
[02:08] <wizardslovak> so 4gb root lest say 1gb swap and ??
[02:17] <Damm> what's a sane way to get hardy to get glibc 2.8
[02:17] <Damm> I need a patched pthread in hardy that just doesn't seem to exist in Ubuntu that exists in Debian
[02:17] <Damm> :|
[02:18] <twb> Damm: why 2.8?
[02:19] <twb> Damm: Debian, at least, never even shipped that (AFAIK).
[02:20] <twb> If you enjoy pain and instability, you can always (very carefully!) cherry-pick bits from Debian.  But if you're not a DD, you probably don't have experience to do so safely.
[02:23] <Damm> twb, I'd rather upgrade to Jaunty
[02:23] <Damm> if i have to do that
[02:23] <Damm> tbh
[02:23] <twb> Fair enough.
[02:24] <Damm> is Jaunty going to be LTS?
[02:24] <twb> Cherry-picking from ubuntu+1 is safer than cherry-picking from Debian.
[02:24] <Damm> or Karmic Koala?
[02:24] <twb> Koala?  Bah.  I would have chosen Kookaburra.
[02:24] <owh> Not if the world is watching a Koala being watered during a bush fire :)
[02:25] <p_quarles> there was a two year interval between the last LTSs, so I'd guess the next one won't be at least until 10.04
[02:25] <twb> I concur with p_quarles
[02:25] <Damm> naah
[02:25] <Damm> yep p_quarles
[02:25] <Damm> i saw that
[02:26] <Damm> welp i might as well go Jaunty and see if it fixes it, if not I can reinstall
[02:26] <Damm> definetly easier then trying to apt-get dist-downgrade
[02:27] <Damm> getting Ulrich to admit pthread bugs is like
[02:27] <Damm> trying to scale the chrysler tower with 2 fingers
[02:27] <Damm> or is that too polite?
[02:27] <wizardslovak> should i install lamp in os install or wait and install it later?
[02:27] <twb> Damm: If you have spare space in your LVM, I strongly recommend making an LVM snapshot or otherwise keeping your old root filesystem around as-is while you do the test upgrade.
[02:28] <Damm> twb, reinstalling takes 15minutes
[02:28] <Damm> and it's automated
[02:28] <twb> Damm: well, if you have preseeding and know exactly what you want
[02:28] <Damm> twb, no it's fai
[02:28] <Damm> and i didn't set it up
[02:28] <p_quarles> wizardslovak: I would install it later with tasksel; I recall that giving you more options
[02:28] <twb> Yeah, fai is preseeding
[02:28] <Damm> but by god it's easy enough to get done
[02:28] <Damm> when I have time I'll do the preseeding
[02:28] <twb> I'm not really a fan of FAI, I'd prefer a combination of manual preseeding and puppet.
[02:29]  * Damm stabs puppet with a fork.
[02:29] <Damm> chef 4ever
[02:29] <twb> Not that I like puppet...
[02:29] <wizardslovak> tasksel??? can i use apt-get?
[02:30] <p_quarles> wizardslovak: tasksel is another front-end for dpkg, like apt-get; it's useful for deplying common setups, like lamp
[02:30] <p_quarles> wizardslovak: sudo tasksel install lamp-server
[02:30] <cjwatson> (tasksel is a front-end for apt-get/aptitude, actually)
[02:30] <p_quarles> wizardslovak: or tasksel --list-tasks for the options
[02:31] <wizardslovak> whats the difference btw tasksel and apt-get and aptitude
[02:31] <p_quarles> cjwatson: which is a dependency resolving front-end for dpkg
[02:31] <twb> Damm: there's no wikipedia article for Chef, so it's obviously no good!
[02:31] <cjwatson> p_quarles: I'm aware of that, but I think it's relevant that it isn't a front-end to dpkg directly, since that makes it clear that anything you can do with tasksel you can also do with apt-get
[02:32] <p_quarles> cjwatson: true; tasksel is only useful if you want to deploy a common default; for wizardslovak's purposes, though, the default lamp stack should be ideal
[02:32] <cjwatson> wizardslovak: tasksel is a simplified interface that just offers you the ability to install or remove sets of packages corresponding to common tasks (or profiles, whatever you want to call them). apt-get and aptitude are full package managers that give you manual control over which packages are installed.
[02:33] <cjwatson> I basically agree with p_quarles though, just nitpicking :-)
[02:33] <p_quarles> :)
[02:33] <Damm> twb, www.opscode.com
[02:35] <Damm> it's amazing that tasksel is pretty much the same as it was in Debian Potato
[02:38] <twb> That's because nobody uses tasksel except newbies
[02:38] <cjwatson> Damm: pretty different internally though :)
[02:38] <owh> twb: Hmm, newbies eh?
[02:39] <wizardslovak> newbies??
[02:39] <wizardslovak> i always used apt-get
[02:40] <Damm> cjwatson, I would hope so.
[02:40] <Damm> if the code stagnated from old versions of libc5 and still works on current glibc
[02:40] <twb> owh: yeah; tasksel's main job is to provide newbies an easy way to opt-in to getting Xorg and gnome installed :-P
[02:41] <Damm> well you'd have to give that person a medal
[02:41] <owh> twb: ROTFL
[02:41] <cjwatson> Damm: it's in perl, so libc is not all that relevant
[02:41] <Damm> rofl
[02:41] <Damm> that figures shows you how much I use tasksel
[02:41] <cjwatson> Damm: and potato didn't use libc5
[02:41] <Damm> potato had elf
[02:41] <Damm> that i do recall
[02:42] <twb> Damm: well, I noticed that ubuntu-server has some fancy different tasksel tasks
[02:42] <Damm> twb, i hasn't noticed
[02:42] <Damm> fai kinda gets in the way of ubuntu being useful
[02:42] <twb> There's now tasks like "I want lots of security holes", i.e. LAMP
[02:43] <cjwatson> the libc6 transition was in bo, two releases before potato
[02:43] <cjwatson> err, hamm, not bo
[02:43] <Damm> right
[02:43] <Damm> but ole fashioned libc5
[02:43] <Damm> or old libc was potato
[02:43] <cjwatson> no it wasn't!
[02:43] <Damm> not this new fangled stuff that Ulrich sold us on
[02:43] <cjwatson> potato was two releases after Debian switched to libc6; it did not use libc5
[02:44] <cjwatson> not for anything of any importance anyway
[02:44] <Damm> used libc4?
[02:44] <cjwatson> it used libc6. 5+1.
[02:44] <cjwatson> I'm not sure how to be any clearer :)
[02:44]  * Damm runs in terror
[02:44] <Damm> you can't
[02:44] <Damm> and I've hit the moment that I can't takes no more
[02:44]  * Damm remembers why he ran to freebsd from Debian now
[02:45] <twb> Hey so guys, a stock ubuntu-server 8.04 install, and I deliberately break filesystem mounting (by removing /srv's disk).
[02:45] <twb> I get dropped into a recovery shell... in which /bin is not in $PATH
[02:45] <twb> Sorry, /usr/bin is not in $PATH
[02:45] <Damm> /usr/bin/ls?
[02:45] <twb> Yes, obviously
[02:45] <cjwatson> Damm: (http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ may help to keep track of the codenames)
[02:45] <twb> But the question is: how did it get to that point?
[02:46] <twb> PATH is /sbin:/bin
[02:46] <cjwatson> there are some code paths where you only get /bin and /sbin I think
[02:46] <cjwatson> I usually just stick /usr/sbin and /usr/bin in there and don't worry about it
[02:47] <twb> I vaguely suspect that Ubuntu has been "clever" when it juggled stuff like /etc/environment and /etc/profile around, or just that this hasn't started a login shell for some silly reason
[02:47] <cjwatson> the unified PATH in /etc/environment is only effective for PAM sessions
[02:47] <cjwatson> anything else gets to fend for itself so you may notice some desynchronisation
[02:47]  * Damm laughs
[02:48] <Damm> well that's a horrible way of making /etc/profile cleaner then
[02:48] <twb> cjwatson: this is clearly a bug, because if I manually run "bash -l", it also lacks PATH
[02:48] <twb> *lacks a proper PATH
[02:48] <cjwatson> twb: it'll just inherit it from the parent
[02:48] <cjwatson> oh, -l? not sure.
[02:48] <twb> cjwatson: I expect the system-wide PATH default to be set in /etc/profile or some other similar place
[02:48] <cjwatson> sulogin should probably sort it out.
[02:48] <cjwatson> the problem with /etc/profile was that we got a different kind of desynchronisation
[02:49] <cjwatson> /etc/profile only applies to Bourne-style shells; there are a number of processes that start up in other ways and need a PATH
[02:49] <twb> cjwatson: yeah, you're right, this problem is caused by PATH setting being moved from /etc/profile to /etc/environment in Ubuntu
[02:49] <twb> cjwatson: that's a fair point
[02:50] <cjwatson> and this actually was a practical problem - see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneTruePath
[02:50] <twb> Thanks, looking
[02:50] <twb> cjwatson: btw, has this issue propagated into the Debian BTS?
[02:51] <cjwatson> twb: I don't think so
[02:51] <twb> sulogin does NOT fix it, BTW
[02:52] <cjwatson> when I said "should", I meant "ought to be made to" rather than "I believe it does so now"
[02:52] <cjwatson> stupid English language
[02:52] <twb> Sorry, I misunderstood.
[02:53] <cjwatson> actually, it's curious that this happens at all, because upstart sets PATH
[02:54] <cjwatson> and apparently has done since August 2006
[02:54] <twb> I wish upstart hadn't been deployed until metainit was actually ready.
[02:55] <twb> I just don't see the benefit of upstart when it has to then go through a sequential sysvinit-compat layer
[02:55] <cjwatson> metainit couldn't have been made ready without experience with the initial deployment of upstart
[02:55] <cjwatson> and the deployment was a lot easier this way
[02:55] <cjwatson> Scott does actually know what he's doing
[02:55] <cjwatson> (I'm not sure whether we'll actually use metainit, but.)
[02:56] <twb> I really meant "deployed as the default"
[02:56] <infinity> It had to be the default to get tested.
[02:56] <infinity> Double-edged sword, really.
[02:56] <twb> On an unrelated note: upstart's shutdown(8) has no way to force a fsck on reboot...
[02:56] <twb> infinity: yeah, I guess...
[02:56] <infinity> We needed the intermediate sysvinit-compat rollout to be able to use it at all.
[02:57] <infinity> twb: These days, isn't "forcing fsck on boot" more a function of marking the filesystem dirty, since "running fsck" does pretty much nothing on a journalled FS that claims to be clean.
[02:58] <twb> Even fsck -f?
[02:58] <twb> It takes a long time to do nothing...
[02:58] <cjwatson> all that shutdown -F ever did was to touch /forcefsck before shutting down.
[02:58] <twb> I figured it was something like that
[02:59] <infinity> And, FWIW, checkroot.sh still honors that file.
[03:00] <twb> infinity: ah, cool
[03:00] <twb> I just didn't remember what the exact name for the file was, or I'd have just touched it
[03:00] <twb> As it is I'm plugging the root filesystem into my laptop to fsck -f -- it's a USB key :P
[03:00] <infinity> -f touched /fastboot, and -F touched /forcefsck
[03:00] <infinity> Both are referenced in /etc/init.d/checkfs.sh
[03:00] <cjwatson> would be worth a bug to add those options, since they're trivial
[03:01] <infinity> Though it might be nice for you to file an upstart bug to get those options back in.  *shrug*
[03:02] <twb> Is there actually a way to defragment ext2?
[03:03] <infinity> Some people have written some tools.  Nothing that I've ever trusted, mind you.
[03:04] <infinity> ext* are fairly fragmentation-resistent anyway, though if you regularly redline between 90% and 100% usage, you'll be as screwed as the next FAT32 user...
[03:04] <twb> You could do one that just called sleep(size-of-disk) :-)
[03:07] <Damm> amazing ubuntu did something right with libtool
[03:07] <Damm> yay
[03:09] <twb> cjwatson: regarding bash; I suggest making the default /etc/profile say something like "if path is <silly>, source /etc/environment"
[03:10] <twb> Since AFAICT that would be exactly a no-op for login shells that *do* go through pam_environment.so
[03:10] <cjwatson> twb: /etc/environment is not guaranteed to be sourceable by a shell
[03:10] <cjwatson> twb: it may happen to be in many cases, but the format is not the same as shell
[03:11] <cjwatson> so it gets a bit tricky
[03:11] <cjwatson> I'd rather fix the (few) places that are still showing up with broken paths
[03:11] <twb> cjwatson: it's not just lines of X=Y?
[03:11] <twb> Yes, obviously actually fixing things is preferable :-)
[03:11] <cjwatson> the quoting rules are not the same as shell.
[03:11] <twb> cjwatson: ah, fair enough
[03:12] <Damm> httpd: pthread_mutex_lock.c:87: __pthread_mutex_lock: Assertion `mutex->__data.__owner == 0' failed.
[03:12] <Damm> well damn it's still there
[03:12] <Damm> i bet this is something in apache
[03:58] <starr0stealer> hi everyone
[04:01] <starr0stealer> i have some questions on how i should setup a new server, for a apache mysql server
[04:15] <ScottK> !ask
[05:21] <vexic> I have a question about setting up LAMP if anyone can help.
[05:45] <anthony1> Good morning
[05:45] <anthony1> Anyone available for a networking question on Ubuntu Desktop 8.04.2 ?
[05:45] <anthony1> I am looking for some assistance on obtaining a DHCP IP address on Ubuntu 8.04.2 over a Linksys wireless bridge 802.11g, model number WET54G ver 3.1
[05:46] <anthony1> I am able to assign a static IP address and DNS server information and connect just fine
[05:46] <anthony1> WEP is enabled on both the Verizon FIOS wireless router and Linksys wireless bridge
[05:47] <anthony1> I've tried #ubuntu and they suggested I try here
[05:50] <twb> anthony1: all I can think of to try is packet sniffing
[05:50] <anthony1> I don't understand how that would help
[05:51] <twb> anthony1: it will tell you if the DHCPREQUEST is hitting the router
[05:51] <twb> I'm assuming you actually have a shell on your DHCP server / router
[05:52] <anthony1> If so, I am unable to access via telnet or SSH
[05:52] <anthony1> There's a web interface but that's all I have access to
[05:52] <twb> I'd also obviously try turning off networkmanager, which always breaks everything.
[05:52] <anthony1> lol
[05:52] <twb> And I'd try running dhclient manually and watching its output
[05:59] <anthony1> twb, if you're still there, I got randomly disconnected
[05:59] <twb> You can see that I'm here from /names
[05:59] <anthony1> Thanks
[05:59] <miyako> could anyone tell me how to add a trusted SSL certificate? I'm using dreamhost for email and their ssl cert doesn't seem to work (I added it to /etc/ssl/certs but I still get an error that the certificate is not trusted)
[06:00] <anthony1> twb: did you see the flood of output from dhclient?
[06:00] <twb> anthony1: no.
[06:00] <twb> anthony1: you should not be flooding the channel anyway
[06:01] <twb> anthony1: use a pastebin
[06:01] <anthony1> Long story short ....... No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.
[06:01] <twb> That means it gave up
[06:01] <twb> My other suggestions remain
[06:01] <anthony1> Say it again?
[06:02] <twb> anthony1: make sure network manager isn't running or installed.  ssh into your DHCP server / router and packet sniff there.  Packet sniff locally.
[06:03] <twb> Oh, and look for suspicious output near the bottom of dmesg
[06:03] <anthony1> Thanks
[06:03] <anthony1> Ok
[08:02] <Zubbb> hello, i'm trying to do something very easy: to configure a machine with ubuntu server as firewall that does masquerading. I configured shorewall and i can do pings to the net from a workstation but when i try to access some web there seems to be no data transfer... i'm i missing something evident?
[08:29] <oh_noes> Can anyone tell me how to manually edit /templates/sources.list.tmpl to point add a seperate repo into sources.list during vmbuildr runtime?  I'm trying to --addpkg a package which isn't in --mirror
[08:29] <oh_noes> or any other workaround I can try to get the same end result?
[08:58] <oh_noes> Anyone know how to install jre with vmbuilder?
[08:59] <twb> oh_noes: icedtea or sun?
[09:00] <oh_noes> sun-java6-jre
[09:01] <oh_noes> Basically, if I try to install it vmbuilder fails because of the deb package prompting for user to accept the license agreement
[09:04] <twb> oh_noes: provide the answer to that prompt in a preseed file
[09:05] <twb> debconf-set-selections <<<'sun-java6-jre shared/accepted-sun-dlj-v1-1 boolean true'
[09:05] <twb> debconf-set-selections <<<'sun-java6-jre shared/present-sun-dlj-v1-1 note'
[09:11] <oh_noes> Thanks.  The problem is I dont know how to provide that answer with vmbuilder
[09:24] <twb> oh_noes: me either; sorry.
[10:17] <CrummyGummy> Hi all, I have a bunch of java processes that use all the physical ram in my server and then hang it without swapping or terminating. By hang I mean most processes half work but can't do much because there is not enough memory. I can't even run ps because it tells me the process can't fork. I would assume from what I've read about kernel memory management that the processes should just get killed but this does not seem to be the case. My swappiness
[10:18] <CrummyGummy> is set to 60. free -m shows the free swap to be 1913 and used to be 0. Any one seen something like this before? Any ideas?
[10:46] <simplexio> CrummyGummy: killall java takes care java programs
[10:53] <CrummyGummy> wow, thats amazing.
[10:55] <CrummyGummy> "fix the bugs" would've been just as useful. All I'm worried about is my servers not going down when the memory management in the kernel should keep it up.
[11:05] <simplexio> CrummyGummy: well. no idea why it dosent swap, bu killing stuff helps to solve problem
[11:06] <simplexio> CrummyGummy: like see dmesg and seei f there has been anyproblems
[11:07] <simplexio> CrummyGummy: what kernel you use, i had problem with 2.6.27-7-server that it would oops when using dmraid0 swap drives
[11:10] <CrummyGummy> 2.6.24-23-server but I've had this problem for years, I do use raid on my swaps. Id your problem go away with an upgrade?
[11:10] <CrummyGummy> erm s/Id/did/
[12:01] <quizme> how do i install glib-2.0 ?
[12:20] <cjwatson> quizme: sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev (assuming you're trying to compile something and it's listed glib-2.0 as a missing requirement)
[12:25] <jurism> I have ata_aux 100% CPU usage after /etc/init.d/apache2 stop; pkill -9 apache2 what should I do now? I even can not restart server because reboot command not doing its job...
[12:25] <quizme> cjwatson yes exactly. thanks!
[12:26] <quizme> cjwatson:  Couldn't find package libglib2.0-0-dev
[12:27] <jurism> Will reboot -f help? I have only remote terminal available...
[12:37] <cjwatson> quizme: read what I said very carefully. You appear to have mistyped.
[12:37] <quizme> cjwatson ok thanks
[12:53] <simplexio> quizme: do you mean /etc/init.d/apache2 start dosent work ?
[12:55] <simplexio> quizme: not 100% sure about ubuntu, but you could try zap or force-restart argument with init.d script or remove apache.running stamp from /var/cache/ ??.. not sure where ubuntu keeps track if service is runnign
[13:51] <jurism> http://pastebin.com/m37cc52feNo I have soft lockup problem ata_aux process usage is 100%, I can login into ssh but I can not even restart server. Thank You for answers!
[14:13] <orudie> !seen ivoks
[14:35] <fevel> hello
[14:36] <fevel> my ethernets configured incorrectly it missed out eth1 and skupped numbering the interfaces directly eth2. How can I rename it to the right order?
[14:36] <fevel> *skipped
[14:40] <pascalou> hi here, anyone has a very cheap drive bay (16TB) to suggest in order to do drive to drive to tape backups ?
[14:46] <maxb> fevel: Have a look at /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[14:48] <fevel> youre the man maxb
[14:49] <fevel> maxb: how can I reset this file gracefully?
[14:50] <maxb> I think you can just edit it
[14:50] <fevel> ok
[14:51] <maxb> You can delete entries from it if you want it to regenerate them at next boot
[15:04] <jamesrfla> I got a e-mail from the Ubuntu server mailing list saying there is a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting at 15:00UTC. I am not sure what time that would be in US eastern Time. I spent 30min trying to figure out when it is
[15:06] <sommer> jamesrfla: 11:00am
[15:07] <jamesrfla> thanks sommer it looks like there is some other meeting going on in there right now. Be back at 11AM
[15:22] <Doble> hi - im new to linux servers and I was wondering if there is something akin to the windows task manager in ubuntu, where I can get some idea of what the server is doing, and what kind of load it is under?
[15:22] <ball> Doble: "top"
[15:22] <ball> (in a terminal window)
[15:23] <Doble> ball: ahh cool, cheers!
[15:24] <ball> Doble: you're welcome.  That's common on most unix/Linux/BSD systems
[15:26] <Doble> ball: great, reading the man page now
[15:27] <ball> man pages are a good thing.
[15:30] <giovani> Doble: you might also be interested in installing "htop"
[15:30] <giovani> it's more featureful than top
[15:30]  * ball wasn't aware of htop
[15:30] <giovani> I would die without it
[15:30] <giovani> http://htop.sourceforge.net/
[15:31] <Doble> giovani: thanks i will check it out, I eventually plan to try out SNMP monitoring with nagios, but im still learning and just wanted to see what my system was up to - htop looks cool too!
[15:31] <giovani> Doble: nagios monitoring is hardly a replacement for a process viewer
[15:32] <giovani> but, it's definitely something you should incorporate also
[15:33] <Doble> giovani: yes indeed, cheers
[15:34] <Doble> well after a couple of days of resisting taking the 'easy' route with webmin and such, I now have a little home server doing DNS, file serving, and a public FTP!
[15:35] <giovani> what's the public ftp for?
[15:35] <ball> Why public FTP?
[15:36] <Doble> when I say public, I mean its accessible from the internet, you still need a user/pass to access it :)
[15:36] <giovani> why ftp at all?
[15:36] <Doble> I wanted to transfer some files from work
[15:36] <ivoks> ah, no, not again... :)
[15:36] <giovani> use scp/sftp
[15:36] <ivoks> or webdav
[15:36] <ivoks> with ssl
[15:36] <giovani> ftp is incredibly insecure, both in its lack of protection for your username/password, and for the data
[15:38] <Doble> yeah, I'm aware of the insecurity ... I'll look at what you suggested
[15:38] <giovani> well ... on top of that, ftp requries extra software, scp/sftp doesn't
[15:38] <giovani> (they're built in with openssh-server)
[15:39] <Doble> hm, I wasn't aware of that ... I'll check it out
[15:39] <giovani> really, I'd immediately remove ftp from use
[15:39] <giovani> it has no function for you
[15:40] <ivoks> giovani: windows clients have ftp client by default, but not sftp/scp
[15:40] <giovani> ivoks: I'm quite aware of this
[15:40] <ivoks> giovani: and you could even say that's the same case with OSX
[15:40] <giovani> uh, since when?
[15:40] <giovani> osx doesn't have openssh client by default?
[15:40] <ball> psftp ftw
[15:41] <ivoks> giovani: most of OSX users look at Finder as OSX, not the whole package
[15:41] <ball> ivoks: MacOS X ships with sftp
[15:41] <giovani> ivoks: well, that's an inaccurate statement then
[15:41] <giovani> anyway, none of this is relevant
[15:41] <ivoks> i said 'and you could even say that's the same case with OSX'
[15:41] <giovani> we're talking about Doble, not "any user on the planet"
[15:41] <giovani> surely if he can manage an irc client, he can manage an scp/sftp client
[15:42] <giovani> otherwise, it sounds like you just want to start an argument for no reason
[15:42] <ivoks> i thought he was setting up server for other users, not for him self :)
[15:42] <giovani> nope ... we asked
[15:42] <giovani> he said it's for himself, at work
[15:42] <ivoks> ok then
[15:43] <Doble> this discussion is very interesting to me either way, because if i can become fluent with ubuntu I'll be able to start using it at work with our servers :)
[15:43] <Doble> instead of windows server
[15:43] <Doble> so i appreciate the info
[15:43] <giovani> Doble: all depends on the function, and what your level of knowledge is ...
[15:44] <giovani> I'd recommend against stepping in and replacing windows servers at work until you're quite confident in your skills
[15:45] <Doble> of course ... however the advantage with linux seems to be set-and-forget, i've been amazed by the reliability - we have a DNS server running on SOL linux which was set up 4+ years ago by a previous sysadmin ... it's barely been touched apart from the occasional addition of a zone record and its running beautifully even now
[15:46] <Doble> probably hugely insecure, unpatched and would make most sysadmins cry, but such is the place where I work :)
[15:50] <Doble> giovani - i downloaded winSCP to try out the SFTP you told me about - looks great! i have access to the whole file system, this will be a big help
[15:51] <jamesrfla> yeah I get to go to my first Ubuntu Server meeting :)
[15:52] <jamesrfla> I don't get to go to them because I am in school at 11AM Eastern US time
[15:57] <ttx> Server team meeting in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting.
[15:57] <jamesrfla> +1 ttx
[15:57] <Doble> is there a way to get a listing of packages I've installed with apt-get ?
[15:59] <abcdasd> sorry, my connection dropped and i dont know if this got through - is there a way to get a listing of packages installed?
[16:00] <cjwatson> dpkg -l | grep ^ii
[16:01] <cjwatson> or dpkg-query -W, perhaps a more convenient format
[16:01] <abcdasd> crikey thats quite a lot
[16:03] <giovani> yep ... there are a lot of applications
[16:04] <abcdasd> okay, per your advice giovani, i've removed vsftpd, but when I do a dpkg -l it still shows up in the list
[16:05] <giovani> you probably didn't dpkg -l | grep ^ii
[16:05] <giovani> which only shows installed packages
[16:06] <abcdasd> ahh, there we go, thanks
[16:07] <abcdasd> sorry cjwatson, i thought that the ^ii was some kind of weird smiley! haha
[16:09] <ycy> hi there
[16:09] <jamesrfla> Hi ycy
[16:09] <ycy> I have a server with ubuntu. Is there a way to send a mail (from the server) whenever "apt-get upgrade" has something to upgrade?
[16:10] <ivoks> apt-listchanges maybe?
[16:10] <sommer> ycy: apticron does a pretty good job of that
[16:11] <ivoks> timtowtdi
[16:11] <ycy> thank you
[16:18] <abcdasd> giovani: regarding SFTP - if I wanted to make changes to files which I would normally need to be sudo to change, how would I go about it?
[16:19] <abcdasd> er, this is doble by the way, my nick has gone a bit strange, heh
[16:21] <christian_> hello I need use a e-mails accounts with postfix and dovecot
[16:27] <giovani> Doble: you don't ...
[16:27] <giovani> Doble: what files are you trying to change?
[16:31] <ivoks> christian_: ?
[16:31] <ivoks> christian_: you want to setup mail server?
[16:34] <Doble> giovani: thats fine if you can't, and i can understand why, i was just interested - wanted to see if i could edit config files and such from my windows PC
[16:34] <giovani> you should be doing so on the server, honestly
[16:35] <giovani> you could open root login, but, most ubuntu folks would advise against that
[16:35] <giovani> better to ssh into the server, and use sudo with a text editor there
[16:36] <Doble> yeah, i agree
[16:38] <christian_> yes I need setup a mail server
[16:38] <jamesrfla> thanks ivoks and sommer
[16:38] <Doble> I want to see how much samba is loading files from memory cache and how much it is having to access its hard drive, what would be the best way to monitor that? ie - looking at drive transfer rates on the server
[16:39] <jamesrfla> christian_: I recommend Citadel Mail server for beginners
[16:40] <ivoks> christian_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer
[16:40] <ivoks> jamesrfla: this is an ubuntu channel
[16:40] <ivoks> anyway... take care
[16:41] <jamesrfla> later everybody have to work on some homework :(
[16:45] <darkside_simmons> good day everyone...
[16:46] <ball> hello darkside_simmons
[16:47] <darkside_simmons> i was looking trying to join the team...I have been using ubuntu server for awhile and deployed multiple web servers, email servers etc
[16:48] <ball> darkside_simmons: do you use Samba for file servers?
[16:48] <christian_> thks
[16:48] <darkside_simmons> yea I have been
[16:49] <darkside_simmons> setup domain server for xp and few simple login scripts with rights
[16:50] <Doble> darkside_simmons: I'm learning the linux way too :) coming from a windows environ
[16:51] <darkside_simmons> yea its fun :) if your a technical guy like myself
[16:51] <ball> darkside_simmons: One of my users whinges incessantly about not being able to write-protect a file
[16:52] <ball> I can't figure out how to map Windows file permissions to an ext2 filesystem
[16:53] <darkside_simmons> i used ldap group policies
[16:54] <darkside_simmons> and then setup each windows account on my domain server
[16:54] <Doble> ball: maybe this will help - https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-fileprint-security.html - look under share security, about 3/4ths way down
[16:57] <orudie> !seen ivoks
[17:01] <vexic> I have a question about setting up LAMP, would anybody be able to help?
[17:01] <andol> !ask
[17:02] <darkside_simmons> whats going on
[17:02] <ball> Doble: thanks, it's almost useful.
[17:03] <vexic> Thanks.  I followed some documentation on the ubuntu site on setting up a LAMP server, and thought I completed all of the steps, but I couldn't view the test pages on my other box's in the network, did I forget to do something?
[17:04] <ball> vexic: do you have Lynx installed?
[17:04] <ball> (on the server)
[17:04] <darkside_simmons> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html that may help too doble
[17:04] <vexic> ball, no i don't think so
[17:04] <darkside_simmons> oops i mean ball
[17:05] <ball> vexic: "sudo apt-get install lynx" perhaps
[17:06] <vexic> ball: I'll try that,  what exactly would that do to help me? (I followed the steps from here, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP)
[17:06] <darkside_simmons> vexic you are trying to see the basic apache server test pages I assume???
[17:07] <vexic> darkside_simmons: correct
[17:07] <ball> vexic: once you have it installed, type "lynx http://localhost/"
[17:08] <ball> ...and let us know whether you see your content.
[17:11] <vexic> ball: unfortunately I'm at work and can't test that at the moment, I'm just trying to get a general idea of what I missed. (I can see the content in firefox on the computer that I set it up on)
[17:12] <ball> vexic: can you ssh to your server?
[17:12] <darkside_simmons> vexic: yea or can you ping the pc
[17:13] <vexic> ball: not yet, i was hoping to get to that step before i had to go to work, but am i new so i was too slow ;/
[17:13] <darkside_simmons> ifconfig or ifconfig eth0 to see you network interface status
[17:16] <ball> vexic: so you can see the Web pages from Firefox run on the server, but not from other machines on the same LAN?
[17:17] <vexic> ball: that is correct
[17:17] <ball> vexic: sounds like a firewall issue.  Are you using the machine's IP address for the URL?
[17:17] <ball> ...or a hostname?
[17:18] <vexic> ball: i'm using http://localhost
[17:19] <darkside_simmons> vexic need to determine if the computer is on the network can you go to google or any other website fine
[17:19] <ball> vexic: that won't work from the other machines on the LAN though.
[17:19] <ball> What are you using there?
[17:20] <vexic> ball: that's what I was using...are you saying all i needed to do was use the machine's ip? or set it to hostname?
[17:21] <ball> vexic: from the other machines on the LAN, it would be something like "http://<IP_ADDRESS>/" (or whatever your server's IP address is)
[17:22] <vexic> ball: cool , thanks.  Could you tell me where I would set the hostname, so I don't have to use the ip?
[17:22] <ball> vexic: that's non-trivial.
[17:22] <ball> Stick to the IP address for now.
[17:25] <darkside_simmons> ball would you know of any good network logging software, I have cacti installed and played with bandwidthd but I wanted to log all blocked and accepted traffic
[17:25] <ball> darkside_simmons: no idea on Linux, sorry.
[17:34] <zoopster> darkside_simmons: have you looked at analog?
[17:36] <darkside_simmons> no I haven't
[17:36] <darkside_simmons> need something for the terminal or sql/web based since I don't have a gui on the servers
[17:36] <ball> darkside_simmons: you can run Xclients on a machine with no graphics hardware.
[17:37] <ball> (no mouse, graphics card etc.)
[17:37] <darkside_simmons> tell me more well I guess I can google it
[17:39] <ball> darkside_simmons: if you have a desktop Ubuntu machine (or any other machine with an X server), you can connect to your router from that and run software (including graphical software) there, but have the output displayed on the box you're sitting in front of.  You send it mouse clicks, keystrokes and it sends you the end result.
[17:39] <ball> ...just as though you were running it locally.
[17:39] <ball> X is great like that.
[17:40] <ball> MacOS X ships with an X server
[17:40] <ball> ...most unices do.
[17:40] <darkside_simmons> that is wicked.....save me from getting another pc what i was thinking off
[17:42] <ball> We've had that since the mid 1980s I think
[17:42] <ball> Welcome to the late C20th ;-)
[17:43] <JanC> 1984
[17:43] <ball> JanC: there you go.
[17:44] <ball> darkside_simmons: when people say that X is "network transparent", that's what they're describing.
[17:44] <JanC> X1 wasn't nearly as useful as X11 though  ;)
[17:44] <ball> ...when you run X clients on the same box as the X server (e.g. running Firefox locally), I think it talks via the network stack anyway.
[17:45] <ball> X11 is a Good Thing
[17:45] <ball> JanC: are you in Michigan?
[17:45] <JanC> no
[17:46] <ball> Ah, different JanC then ;-)
[18:16] <danny1> How do i get ubuntu to install on iscsi, i have tried to pass the options "install iscsi=true" to the kernel when booting up from the server edition install cd (8.04), but when disk modules is loaded it just comes up with a window saying "No disk drive was detected blah blah" and wants me to select a module (already tried the iscsi_tcp module) just like it would when doing a normal server install.
[18:16] <danny1> Because its a diskless thin client.
[18:17] <ball> danny1: why would you install Ubuntu on a diskless "thin client" box?
[18:22] <danny1> Right now im just testing it out, we have all our clients running windows xp through AoE, and we wont be buying new windows licenses when m$ stop making security updates for xp, so when that timee comes we are going to change into linux, ubuntu i hope since im quite familiar with debian/ubuntu.
[18:24] <ball> What is AoE?
[18:24] <giovani> ATA over Ethernet
[18:24] <ball> danny1: Ah right, I wrote quite a lengthy email this morning about server-based computing
[18:25] <ball> (thin clients, graphical terminals etc.)
[18:25] <giovani> this doesn't sound like server-based computing, honestly
[18:25] <giovani> this sounds like virtualized storage for distributed desktops
[18:26] <giovani> I much prefer the virtualized desktop route -- but, I guess if you have hardware that you wish to use rather than real thin clients ... you can do it this way, it's just a lot more management
[18:26] <danny1> already made the ubuntu installer install on AoE targets with a little workarround ( ln -s /dev/ether/target /dev/sda ) but when it comes to install grub its complaining about the target not being an bios device
[18:27] <danny1> thats why i wanted to try out iscsi instead, and the reason im asking inhere is that so faar its only supported in the server edition (iscsi=true)
[18:28] <giovani> probably because it's pretty rare to run desktops on virtualized storage :)
[18:31] <danny1> still i should be able to get the iscsi initiator menu during the ubuntu server instalation, with the iscsi=true option
[18:31] <giovani> is that documented somewhere?
[18:34] <danny1> the only pages i could find about it is the release notes saying its posible with that kernel option ( http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?q=cache:BC9W63zwbIYJ:www.ubuntu.com/testing/804rc+ubuntu+iscsi%3Dtrue&cd=6&hl=da&ct=clnk&gl=dk )
[18:38] <giovani> alright, let me pull up a VM and test it myself
[18:38] <giovani> you're using the 8.04 server install cd?
[18:39] <danny1> yes
[18:39] <danny1> tried the 8.10 dvd aswell
[18:41] <danny1> when i get the default boot menu i press esc and get a boot: command line, where i type in : install iscsi=true, tried the default menu using F6 to pass it to the kernel also, still no luck, tried almost everything you can imagine hehe
[18:44] <giovani> esc?
[18:45] <mindnull> just installed ubuntuserver on a server and during install it detected the disks fine and completed installation without error but now when it's restarted it doesn't boot from the RAID, any ideas?
[18:45] <giovani> mindnull: "doesn't boot from raid" -- be more specific? what happens?
[18:46] <danny1> giovani > Escape the key in the left upper corner
[18:46] <giovani> danny1: you sound like you're describing the grub menu ... not the installer
[18:46] <mindnull> skips it and goes to PXE
[18:46] <giovani> mindnull: sounds like your raid card/bios aren't properly configured
[18:47] <mindnull> it does say that it's trying to boot from cd-rom, trying to boot from a:, trying to boot from c: and then it goes to PXE
[18:47] <giovani> uh
[18:47] <giovani> A: and C: are dos/windows terms
[18:47] <giovani> maybe you didn't do your partitioning/mbr correctly in the install
[18:48] <giovani> danny1: are you sure you aren't modifying grub boot options of an existing install?
[18:49] <giovani> the ubuntu installer has a big ubuntu logo, and selects language, and then asks you to press F6 to change install options
[18:49] <mindnull> used the guided - use entire disk option so I don't know how that could of been messed up, I'll go look at the bios settings
[18:49] <danny1> giovani > no its not grub, try starting a vm with the instal cd mounted, and when it boots up and ask you for language press escape, then it will say something like are you sure you want to blah blah and give you the old command line boot thing, where you in the old days could type "rescue" "install" etc etc
[18:50] <giovani> dana_good: iscsi=true worked perfectly for me
[18:50] <giovani> I think you did something incorrectly
[18:50] <giovani> boot off of the CD, select your language, then press F6 ... and append iscsi=true to the list of options already there (it shouldn't be blank, and won't say "install"
[18:50] <giovani> I put "iscsi=true" before the "--" at the end of options
[18:51] <giovani> worked just fine
 the ubuntu installer has a big ubuntu logo, and selects language, and then asks you to press F6 to change install options <-- yes but if you press escape you can get the old stule debian boot command line
[18:53] <dana_good> giovani: i was working on some iSCSI stuff, but i think you're talking to someone else
[18:53] <giovani> danny1: well don't do that ...
[18:53] <giovani> danny1: there are a bunch of installer options you need to have in there ... that ubuntu provides, which clearly you're not providing
[18:53] <giovani> it says "F6 for boot options" -- follow that, it worked perfectly for me
[18:53] <giovani> dana_good: yes, sorry, tab-nick completion
[18:56] <danny1> that will be adding iscsi=true after quiet already tried that without luck, tried it again right now still no luck
[18:56] <giovani> how are you evaluating if it worked that quickly?
[18:56] <dana_good> giovani: np, i just thought it was weird i was working out some iSCSI troubles on my own and suddenly i get a little notification telling me to use iscsi=true
[18:56] <giovani> you don't know until 10 questions into the installer
[18:57] <danny1> i have a laptop right beside me i tested it on
[18:57] <giovani> and what happened? you went through the installer in 2 minutes?
[18:58] <danny1> i get to the part where it should start the disk part or the iscsi initiator, but instead it says "No disk drives found"
[18:59] <giovani> well ... you're gonna have to have a physical disk ...
[18:59] <giovani> otherwise how is the computer going to boot?
[19:00] <danny1> gpxe
[19:00] <danny1> ;)
[19:00] <ball> giovani: USB flash :-)
[19:00] <giovani> who says that's supported, danny1?
[19:00] <ball> I suppose that counts
[19:00] <ball> ...as a disk.
[19:00] <giovani> it works perfectly for me ... and I have a local disk
[19:00] <giovani> but it asks me for my iscsi server
[19:00] <giovani> just like it should
[19:01] <danny1> first i know it works, that how we boot our diskless xp machines atm, no floppy no cdrom no usb keys, only gpxe chainloaded from pxe
[19:01] <giovani> I didn't say that it COULDN'T work
[19:01] <giovani> I said ... who said gpxe iscsi booting with ubuntu installer is supported?
[19:01] <giovani> clearly ubuntu can install to an iscsi target ... I just tested it
[19:02] <giovani> so, your complaint seems to be different now
[19:02]  * ball hits the big blue button on the complaint-o-matic
[19:02] <danny1> well might be my cd thats to old, dont remember if its a plain 8.04 or 8.04.1 or 8.04.2
[19:02] <giovani> nope, your cd is probably fine
[19:03] <giovani> nobody said you could do away with physical disks though
[19:03] <giovani> that's not the same thing as saying "iscsi target installing is supported"
[19:03] <giovani> clearly iscsi target installing is supported -- but maybe not in the specific, and unusual way that you want
[19:03]  * ball sighs
[19:03] <ball> I'm tired.
[19:04] <ball> ...but I have a window to scrub
[19:04] <giovani> cleaning windows does suck
[19:04] <danny1> heh how that that being unusual, whats the idea of booting the system of san when you need to have a physical disk ^^
[19:04] <giovani> danny1: so that you don't need a huge physical disk ... and storage is centralized
[19:04] <ball> giovani: this one has encrusted...gunk on it.
[19:04] <ball> ...possibly even between the panes.
[19:04] <ball> (double-glazed)
[19:05] <ball> Handy having a local disk anyway, for swap.
[19:05] <giovani> and an MBR ...
[19:05] <giovani> I don't know why you aren't just using true thin-clients anyway
[19:05] <giovani> it's a lot less work, and less cost and etc
[19:05] <danny1> gaah gpxe can load the mbr of the iscsi target
[19:05] <ball> giovani: I was writing about those earlier today
[19:06] <giovani> danny1: great ... who said that's supported by the ubuntu installer? did anyone represent that?
[19:06] <ball> ...need to figure out how to do that stuff.
[19:06] <danny1> maybe because this is what we got, buying new machines would be more expensive than buying new windows licenses ;)
[19:06] <ball> giovani: X terminals ideally.
[19:06] <ball> ...though Sun Ray at a pinch.
[19:06] <ball> danny1: TCO though?
[19:06] <giovani> danny1: you can use normal computers as real thin clients
[19:06] <giovani> we do
[19:07] <giovani> we have wyse thin clients, and some regular desktops
[19:07] <giovani> but the regular desktops have HDs in them
[19:07] <giovani> it's just amusing that you think because something can be done, theoretically, that it must be supported by ubuntu
[19:08] <ball> danny1: this thing you've got, it can boot via PXE?
[19:08] <danny1> well i dodnt think that it was a half ass job ;)
[19:08] <giovani> it's not half-assed
[19:08] <giovani> it's iscsi target support, nothing more
[19:08] <danny1> even windows 2008 server can boot entirely of iscsi with gpxe as the initiator.
[19:09] <giovani> so pay for windows
[19:09] <giovani> we don't need trolling
[19:09] <giovani> if you feel it's unacceptable -- I'm sure you'll file a bug report
[19:09] <danny1> anyways tried putting in a harddrive in the test machine, and now i get the iscsi initiator menu
[19:10] <danny1> thanks for the help
[19:10] <ball> I thought the test machine was a "thin client"?
[19:10]  * ball is confused
[19:11] <danny1> its not a real thin client, its a small case with no space for harddrives, and i had to use a laptop with a harddrive in it to make this test ;)
[19:12] <ball> Then don't call it a thin client if it's not.
[19:12] <ball> brb
[19:16] <ball> ...does anyone make X terminals any more?
[19:18] <giovani> ball: not that I know of -- most of the industry has gone to ISA/RDP/VNC
[19:19] <ball> giovani: wierd, though I suppose VNC at least gives you hot-desking
[19:22] <PhotoJim> I figured out why my USB2.0 card on my server is running so slowly.  kernel or udev bug.  if you have both 1.1 and 2.0 USB, the 1.1 driver gets loaded first.  2.0 cards have integrated 1.1 controllers also, for legacy devices.  so the 1.1 driver sees them, and attaches to them.
[19:22] <PhotoJim> no wonder my backups are so slow :)
[19:23] <ball> PhotoJim: would a custom kernel help?
[19:24] <PhotoJim> ball: it doesn't look like it.  might be worth a try though.
[19:24] <PhotoJim> I could do a custom kernel and remove the 1.1 driver.  that would work.  but it would mean my 1.1 ports would be inactive.
[19:24] <PhotoJim> or, perhaps, a custom kernel with compiled-in 2.0 support, and a module for 1.1
[19:24] <PhotoJim> that might work.
[19:29] <giovani> ball: why is that weird?
[19:30] <ball> giovani: I'm just surprised they're not readily available off-the-shelf any more
[19:30] <ball> I wonder why.
[19:31] <giovani> because very few people run linux desktops in an enterprise environment?
[19:31] <giovani> RDP/ISA probably accounts for 95% of desktop virtualization now
[19:32] <ball> giovani: X isn't specifically a Linux thing, but I see what you're saying.
[19:33] <ball> Oh well, I'll see if I can find some VNC terminals
[19:33] <giovani> X is specifically not a windows thing
[19:34] <giovani> ok
[19:34] <ball> giovani: true, because Microsoft shun X.
[19:34]  * ball sighs
[19:34] <giovani> because it has little to no function on windows
[19:34] <ball> VNC may be the way to go then.
[19:34] <giovani> WYSE makes X Windows thin clients
[19:34] <giovani> http://www.wyse.com/products/hardware/thinclients/S50/index.asp
[19:34] <ball> giovani: thanks
[19:40] <JanC> hm, I've seen some 2nd hand WYSE thin clients at computer fairs recently
[19:40] <JanC> something Via-based
[19:41] <PhotoJim> ball: that bug for USB is apparently fixed on 2.6.28-10.33 kernel for Ubuntu.  I imagine that's only for jaunty, not for intrepid.
[19:42] <ball> JanC: I'm waiting for the WY-50 to make a comeback ;-)
[19:43] <JanC> I don't remember what type it was, they cost something like 30 euro IIRC
[19:43] <JanC> and they have Windows on them, but running linux supposedly works  :P
[19:45] <ball> I'd go with Sun Ray if they opened up the server software
[19:48] <giovani> JanC: doubtful you can reflash them
[19:49] <giovani> brand new wyse thin clients only cost about $250 USD
[19:49] <JanC> the vendor said he'd put linux on one of them
[19:49] <ball> giovani: that's less than I expected.
[19:49] <giovani> ball: they have to be price-competitive with $400-600 desktops I guess
[19:50] <giovani> given that with thin clients ... you still need the computing power on the backend
[19:50] <ball> giovani: true enough.
[19:50] <giovani> you can find them on ebay, second-hand for less
[19:50] <JanC> heh, you can buy desktops for 250 USD  :P
[19:50] <giovani> I've seen them as low as $100 (the newer models)
[19:50] <ball> JanC: right, but the TCO's higher
[19:50] <giovani> JanC: unlikely ones an enteprise would buy
[19:52] <JanC> depends on what they are needed for, but actually, a high-end thin client is also powerful enough to be used as a desktop for many tasks  :P
[19:52] <giovani> what I mean is ... most enterprises won't be buying the ultra-cheap desktops you're referencing at $250
[19:52] <giovani> they'll buy dell/hp only, basically
[19:53] <ball> giovani: Lenovo?
[19:54] <JanC> giovani: you mean they buy a 300 USD Dell that comes with a 400 USD support contract?  ;)
[19:54] <giovani> ball: I haven't seen any large companies with lenovo desktops
[19:54] <giovani> JanC: nope, a $600 dell with a $400 support contract
[19:54] <giovani> lenovo's low-end business desktop is $420 retail, btw
[19:55] <giovani> pretty much the same for dell
[19:55] <giovani> hp is slightly more
[19:56] <giovani> but yeah, hardware cost is just the beginning of the cost savings for thin clients ...
[19:56] <giovani> they last longer, much lower support cost, less damage possible, etc
[20:07] <JanC> giovani: last longer than compaq desktops?
[20:08] <ball> JanC: in that they aren't declared obsolete by Microsoft, yes ;-)
[20:08] <JanC> at my previous job all the old compaq desktops were still running while half-as-old Dell desktops died at a rate of 10-a-week sometimes
[20:10] <JanC> and of course there was the Microsoft problem (Office 2k7 doesn't run on Win2k)
[20:10] <ball> JanC: iPaq Desktop?
[20:11] <ball> We have three of those
[20:11] <ball> Well, two on-site
[20:11] <ball> one has Windows 2000 and the other Xubuntu :-)
[20:12] <JanC> Compaq Evo desktops
[20:12] <ball> Ah, we predate those
[20:12] <JanC> D310 and such
[20:12] <ball> ...bought a dc5800 recently though
[20:13] <ball> ...and an ML110
[20:13] <ball> ...need to try Ubuntu Server on that at some point.
[20:14] <JanC> you can buy stacks of the Compaq Evo D310 and similar HP Compaq models for 30-50 euro a piece here in Belgium  ;)
[20:15] <ball> JanC: nice.  I bet I could turn those into VNC terminals :-)
[20:15] <ball> Oh well
[20:15] <JanC> of course, someone I know builds LTSP setups with these
[20:16] <ball> JanC: do they PXE?
[20:17] <JanC> ball: yes
[20:17] <JanC> some companies give them for free (it's for schools) but they don't give the hard disk with the PCs of course
[20:19] <JanC> I guess these companies are like: "these fucking machines won't die even if we throw them around, but we want new ones"  ;-)
[20:20] <JanC> (take care if you throw with them though, you can easily kill people)
[20:21] <ball> heh
[20:21] <ball> Is it difficult to set up a PXE boot server?
[20:23] <JanC> http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_pxe_install_server
[20:23] <JanC> it's a bit old  ;)
[20:24] <JanC> I'm sure there are other how-tos, and maybe the edubuntu disk already supports this OOTB?
[20:26] <ball> JanC: I've heard that it does, if you use the alternate CD
[20:27] <giovani> JanC: considering typical thin clients have no moving parts, and their CPUs don't get outdated the same way desktop CPUs do .. yes ... thin clients can easily stay current for 10+ years
[20:28] <JanC> giovani: I believe you, those compaq desktops are 10yo too, and they are still used to setup LTSP-based school installations
[20:31]  * JanC wonders if there are any ARM Cortex A8-based thin clients yet?
[20:40] <ball> I should go.
[20:57] <orudie> is DenyHosts  any good ?
[20:59] <acicula> it does what it says i suppose?
[21:06] <orudie> i need help configuring denyhosts.conf
[21:13] <danny1> google should help you do that ;)
[21:40] <tcross> Does anybody know why ubuntu-server uses vim-tiny and not vim
[21:41] <acicula> it's the ubuntu base profile default
[21:41] <tcross> Can we get it changed.  It has issues when editing files
[21:42] <friartuck> tcross sudo apt-get install vim
[21:43] <tcross> I know, i have done it but if I ever have to install it on another machine I would have to remove tiny.  etc.  I think the default should be the real vim
[21:43] <acicula> vim-full
[21:44] <acicula> the default is what it is, you'd have to make a pretty good case and convince a lot of people to get it changed
[21:44] <acicula> vim-full autoreplaces tiny i think
[21:44] <acicula> whats not working with the tiny version?
[21:44] <tcross> okay,  thanks for talking about it.  this is my first time getting ivolved.
[21:45] <tcross> when you get in it seems to have a few commands missing and puts in the wrong characters.  I actually dont have to edit my configs for a long time.  but from recolection that was what i can remember
[21:46] <acicula> yeh it's a stripped version, dunno why that is, probably because of dependencies
[21:47] <tcross> I actually switched from Centos for my server and was a little annoid at not being able to just type in vi myfile.conf
[21:47] <tcross> I was basically just wondering if there was a reason we use vim-tiny.  if we are trying to save a few megs than...
[21:48] <acicula> probably just because of some dependencies, it's in the base install metapackage at least
[21:48] <tcross> all right.  thaks for your time acicula.
[22:18] <christian_> hello
[22:19] <christian_> I need know, about of vmail
[22:21] <giovani> christian_: you've been in here many times, and gotten a number of recommendations on getting started with a mail server
[22:22] <christian_> I know, i follow the your instruccions
[22:22] <christian_> but I cant
[22:23] <giovani> then maybe you aren't ready to be setting up a mail server yet
[22:23] <christian_> :(
[22:24] <christian_> now, I configure the postfix and dovecot
[22:24] <christian_> but I dont know the emails of my accounts
[22:24] <christian_> in the /vmail/domain1/user/new
[22:24] <christian_> No exist the email
[22:25] <mrbull> does anyone knows how to find out which keyboard X thinks you have? I'm asking here as I'm running server and X was installed by me. I don't have a DE.
[22:26] <mrbull> I'm only asking as I have an abnt2 keyboard and my AltGr and right Windows Keys are not showing up on xkeycaps
[22:27] <mrbull> (when I press them it says I'm pressing dot and return from the numpad)
[22:28] <danny1> christian_ kerio mailserver you should be able to set that one up it has gui administration tools :)
[22:32] <slestak> there is a patch on lighttpd released 2 months ago that I need for a SOAP service.  It is not included in the 1.4.19ubuntu3.1 deb.  between installing from source or patching the deb, which sounds prefreble?
[22:37] <christian_> in my mail server
[22:37] <christian_> With the network tools
[22:38] <christian_> the accounts with the another domain
[22:39] <christian_> the account esponse
[22:39] <christian_> but I cant send mail with this doamin
[22:45] <danny1> giovani > tricked the ubuntu instaler into installing on iscsi (also grub) by putting in a usb jumpdrive and removing it again when it prompts for iscsi host ( that way the iscsi drive ends up as sda ), it boots up but initrd cant find root filesystem, so now i just have to build an initrd with iscsi support ;)
[22:55] <giovani> danny1: cool ... you might consider filing a bug report then, to see if the requirement for a HD can be removed given the iscsi=true option, considering it seems technically possible
[23:10] <danny1> It should be posible to make that initrd using this guide http://etherboot.org/wiki/sanboot/debian_etch_iscsi , other dists for example fedora have it buildt in their initrd and they can do completely diskless boots from iscsi with only gpxe as boot initiator, and then ibft takes over when the kernel is loaded.
[23:31] <sebblucas1> hi to all, i am requesting someone for help with setting up a LAMP server using Webmin
[23:31] <sebblucas1> any help out there?
[23:33] <maxb> !webmin
[23:33] <maxb> Given the above, you are unlikely to find help on that here, sorry.
[23:34] <sebblucas1> so how to setup a lamp server with ebox?
[23:34] <giovani> !ebox
[23:34] <giovani> :)
[23:35] <sebblucas1> thansk ubottu!
[23:35] <sebblucas1> another question
[23:35] <sebblucas1> i am somewhat new to linux, and servers in general. i am getting help with configuring apache and using it as well as MySQL, thought what about hosting your own domain name?
[23:36] <sebblucas1> say www.mydomain.com   <--- on my own LAMP/DNS server
[23:36] <giovani> ok, what's the question?
[23:37] <sebblucas1> is it possible to host your own domain name (www.mydomain.com) on a LAMP/DNS Ubuntu 8.04 LTS server and make it public to the world? as public as say, google.com?
[23:37] <giovani> sure ... that's what you're doing when you set up LAMP/DNS
[23:37] <giovani> that's the entire function of providing those services
[23:37] <sebblucas1> ok. :D hahaha sorry for the idiotic questions
[23:37] <sebblucas1> now.
[23:37] <sebblucas1> ive been reading up on "zones" and "reverse" addresses
[23:37] <sebblucas1> and its all very confusing.
[23:38] <sebblucas1> i've tried several different tutorials
[23:38] <giovani> yeah, these concepts aren't going to be incredibly simple ... they take time to absorb
[23:38] <sebblucas1> right.
[23:39] <sebblucas1> so, what i'm looking for now, is some way to remotely administrate my server (using a web-based control panel [now looking up !ebox])
[23:39] <sebblucas1> and register my own domain name to the world, and setup a WordPress blog on my machine
[23:39] <sebblucas1> i just need to be pointed in the right direction, where to look, who to ask, etc.
[23:40] <sebblucas1> theres probably no one out there who will take the time and guide me step by step, so i just need help here and there
[23:41] <giovani> honestly, everything you're asking for is offered, in spades, on the interenet
[23:41] <giovani> internet*
[23:41] <giovani> you'll need DNS (either host it yourself, or pay for someone to host it for you)
[23:41] <giovani> and you'll need Apache, with PHP, and a database (most likely MySQL for Wordpress)
[23:41] <giovani> and that's it
[23:42] <sebblucas1> right
[23:42] <sebblucas1> there inlies the problem
[23:43] <giovani> I'm unclear on what the problem is
[23:43] <sebblucas1> i can install ubuntu easilyyyy. i can pre-install (during installation) the LAMP server (so all the software, apache, mysql and PHP is taken care of and install) run updates and upgrades... the problem i need to solve
[23:43] <sebblucas1> is how to make a domain name (www.example.com) public to the world
[23:44] <giovani> you'll need a DNS provider
[23:44] <sebblucas1> sorry for circling here and there. thats the ultimate question: how to setup a DNS server to host a domain name itself
[23:44] <giovani> either host DNS yourself, or hire a company to do it for you
[23:44] <sebblucas1> how do i host DNS myself?
[23:44] <giovani> hosting DNS yourself isn't simple -- I'd advise against it
[23:44] <giovani> !dns
[23:44] <giovani> !bind
[23:44] <sebblucas1> i read up on BIND9 and BIND8
[23:45] <giovani> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/dns-configuration.html
[23:45] <sebblucas1> when you install the DNS server option while installing Ubuntu itself, it pre0installs BIND8
[23:46] <danny1> Bleh im stuck, open-iscsi refuses to compile on ubuntu :S
[23:46] <giovani> danny1: why do you need to compile it?
[23:46] <giovani> and by "refuses to compile" what do you even mean?
[23:46] <sebblucas1> giovani thanks for all the help anyway
[23:47] <sebblucas1> ill do some more research
[23:47] <sebblucas1> take care.
[23:47] <sebblucas1> bye
[23:47] <giovani> sebblucas1: I've provided you with specific guides on how to do what you asked
[23:47] <danny1> giovani > need the iscsistart binary
[23:47] <sebblucas1> yes
[23:48] <sebblucas1> and i thank you
[23:48] <sebblucas1> :)
[23:48] <giovani> danny1: what's it used for? ubuntu has an open-iscsi package
[23:48] <danny1> giovani > when compiling i get lots of errors util.c: In function âdaemon_initâ: & auth.c: In function âget_random_bytesâ: and lots more
[23:49] <danny1> giovani > yes i noticed but it does not contain the binary
[23:49] <giovani> well what's the binary for?
[23:49] <giovani> maybe it's been renamed
[23:50] <danny1> i would guess for initiating the iscssi connection
[23:50] <danny1> iscsi*
[23:50] <giovani> well clearly the ubuntu package has to provide that feature
[23:51] <giovani> I see zero mention of "iscsistart" in the Open-ISCSI readme
[23:51] <giovani> that sounds like it could be a distro-specific binary
[23:51] <giovani> and not required at all
[23:51] <danny1> the script i have to run on boot before mounting root fs run this command amongst others : iscsistart -i $iSCSI_INITIATOR_NAME -t $iSCSI_TARGET_NAME -g 1 -a $iSCSI_TARGET_IPADDR
[23:52] <giovani> maybe it's distro-specific
[23:52] <giovani> read the manpages for the binaries included with the open-iscsi package in ubuntu
[23:52] <danny1> hmm the guide is for debian
[23:52] <giovani> that'd be the obvious thing to do
[23:53] <danny1> i noticed that during the ubuntu installer there is a binary called iscsi-start
[23:54] <giovani> I don't see that anywhere in an ubuntu package
[23:54] <giovani> maybe it's only in the installer
[23:55] <danny1> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?q=cache:z2OwEG2T0vwJ:manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/man8/iscsistart.8.html+iscsistart+ubuntu&cd=2&hl=da&ct=clnk&gl=dk
[23:55] <danny1> that says clearly what iscsistart does :)
[23:55] <giovani> so then what's the problem?
[23:55] <giovani> that's from the ubuntu package
[23:56] <giovani> I told you to check the ubuntu package first
[23:56] <danny1> well that i cant get that binary its not included in any of the packages apt provides me
[23:58] <giovani> it's only supplied in ubuntu jaunty
[23:58] <giovani> probably a new binary
[23:58] <giovani> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/i386/open-iscsi/filelist
[23:59] <danny1> can i use that binary with hardy ?
[23:59] <danny1> or intrepid