[00:09] <TheMuso> superm1: Would you like me to take care of the mythtv packages for the jack transition, or are you going to be touching them in the next couple of weeks for other updates?
[00:09] <superm1> TheMuso, they're FTBFS right now on the current Qt in maverick, so they'll be touched by us at some point
[00:09] <TheMuso> superm1: Ok thanks.
[02:00] <Riddell> geser: I do believe I've caught up with the four month removals backlog, let me know if whatever you wanted didn't happen
[02:03] <TheMuso> Riddell: Ah dude! You're the loan soldier again. This is really starting to suck. :)
[02:03] <TheMuso> For you
[02:10] <Riddell> yes, it is
[02:57] <cooloney> iulian: hi Iulian, is that possible to upgrade guilt to 0.33 in Lucid? Lucid guilt is 0.32.2 which does not work with git <IP_ADDRESS> 'Unsupported version of git (<IP_ADDRESS>)
[04:37] <cutterjohn> ooo.. good guess.. hello
[04:38] <cutterjohn> anyone else with x86-64 having the hdd go apeshit on wake from suspend as it takes LONGER to recover from suspend than just to ALT-SYSRQ+RSEINUB?
[04:39] <cutterjohn> (10.4, x86-64, P8600, Catalyst 10.6, 4GB)
[04:39] <RAOF> !ohmy
[04:40] <RAOF> I haven't seen that reported; try searching launchpad bugs?
[04:40] <cutterjohn> anyone else with x86-64 having the hdd go apesh1t on wake from suspend as it takes LONGER to recover from suspend than just to ALT-SYSRQ+RSEINUB?
[04:40] <cutterjohn> (10.4, x86-64, P8600, Catalyst 10.6, 4GB)
[04:40] <RAOF> If you can't find one, file one.
[04:41] <cutterjohn> sorry, didn't see your initial response since I thought that I go autocensored
[04:41] <RAOF> No, we rely on people to speak appropriately.
[04:42] <cutterjohn> doesn't happen ALL of the time, just enoughbt of the time to be INCREDIBLY annoying for an LTS release...
[04:42] <RAOF> If you can track down the circumstances under which it happens, that would be very helpful on whatever bug you find/file.
[04:43] <cutterjohn> OK, better file a bug report since I just have no idea what to try to debugon my own since I'm not even touching VM half the time that it happens...
[04:43] <RAOF> You might also want to try using the free drivers rather than fglrx to see if that's the culprit.
[04:43] <cutterjohn> or even anythign CPU or otherwise intensive
[04:43] <cutterjohn> (Personally I'm suspecting the ageold daemon, npviewer ATM)
[04:44] <ajmitch> sounds similar to something I've seen
[04:45] <cutterjohn> what GPU are you running and driver?
[04:45] <ajmitch> fglrx, again, with whatever was in lucid
[04:46]  * ajmitch was going to file a bug about it after tracking down a bit more info
[04:47] <cutterjohn> the OSS driver? or did you do the restricted(ctalyst) driver/
[04:47] <cutterjohn> (I had to dump the OSS driver as it's OGL support is WAY too liited)
[04:47] <ajmitch> fglrx is the restricted driver
[04:47] <cutterjohn> (er limited)
[04:48] <cutterjohn> have you filed a bug report?  If so I'll just ... well... anecdotally add my exp as I've got nothing "hard" to add...
[04:49] <ajmitch> as I said, no I haven't yet :)
[04:50] <cutterjohn> ah.. catalyst is the proper package name for the proprietary driver BTW
[04:50] <cutterjohn> fglrx is just a piece of it
[04:50] <RAOF> fglrx is the driver, though.
[04:50] <cutterjohn> yes, but it's only the base X11 driver there are other driver components beyond that
[04:51] <RAOF> Right.  There's a libgl.
[04:51] <RAOF> fglrx is what we call it, because that's the driver name.
[04:52] <cutterjohn> ok, let's not argue over trivialities
[04:52] <RAOF> Indeed.
[04:52] <cutterjohn> (better to call it catlyst though IMNHO)
[04:52] <RAOF> Everyone should be able to pick up what you mean if you say “catalyst”; you'll just find us referring to it as fglrx.
[04:53] <RAOF> Particularly because that's what the package is called :)
[04:54] <cutterjohn> OK, anyways, I guess that I'll go fap lAUNCHPAD
[04:54] <RAOF> Yeah.  That's where to find bugs!
[04:54] <cutterjohn> (er at launchpad)
[04:54] <cutterjohn> got nothing to detail ... but... maybe someone else will add something useful by chance
[04:55] <cutterjohn> (well other than crappy resume from suspend times...)
[05:01] <cutterjohn> bug reporting is doing its best to defeat me ATM
[05:02] <cutterjohn> web UI is useless as are the directions for going through the gui...
[05:03] <cutterjohn> (since they dont apply)
[05:04] <cutterjohn> yay bug reports only apply for PIDs or packages... how entirely useful
[05:04] <cutterjohn> (I think that I'm at the wrong UI...)
[05:05] <RAOF> Or symptoms.
[05:05] <ajmitch> it's generally preferred to use the ubuntu-bug tool, since that automates much of the log attaching, etc
[05:06] <cutterjohn> yeah, I tried ubuntu-bug but it whines about no PID
[05:07] <cutterjohn> if run w/no arg
[05:07] <cutterjohn> and the web-UI has been totally screwed apparently
[05:08] <cutterjohn> it's a freaking adventure game with no solution
[05:08] <cutterjohn> ubuntu-bug 0 complains about no PID 0
[05:09] <cutterjohn> (also I have NO log to attach)
[05:09] <cutterjohn> (no PID to assign it to)
[05:09] <cutterjohn> (just a general cockup)
[05:10] <cutterjohn> (that's variably repeatable... although with no discernable triggers)
[05:10] <ajmitch> if you believe it's kernel related, put it against the 'linux' package
[05:10] <ajmitch> most suspecd/resume bugs are, though this one has a good chance of being fglrx
[05:11] <cutterjohn> I don't... my personal guess is npviewer... but I could be entirely wrong
[05:11] <cutterjohn> it could be nautilus or any of the other GNOME VFS daemons too...
[05:11] <cutterjohn> just no idea
[05:11] <cutterjohn> just LOTS of disk activity, but not much CPU usage
[05:12] <cutterjohn> (when I get to a GUI/terminal)
[05:12] <ajmitch> if it's t all like what I see, it seems to be very much vm-related
[05:12] <cutterjohn> sometimes I'm using 0 VM, sometimes a few 100mb no diff
[05:12] <ajmitch> iotop doesn't usually point to any one process that's hitting the disk a lot
[05:13] <cutterjohn> it can happen right after a fresh powerup
[05:13] <cutterjohn> or not
[05:13] <cutterjohn> it's one of THOSE bugs..
[05:14] <cutterjohn> no way to force it to happen that I know of and as far as I can see nothing obviously wrong
[05:16] <cutterjohn> (BTW: I've been doing lsof when I can get to a terminal nothign striking there either..)
[05:16] <cutterjohn> (as root)
[05:18] <cutterjohn> afk for a few minutes... then I'll deal with the bug "reporting" system again... been changed too much to discourage bug reports IMO better to be liberal in closing them than discouraging them
[05:21] <RAOF> cutterjohn: You know, if you run just “ubuntu-bug” it'll pop up a list of symptoms for you to chose from?
[05:21] <RAOF> I don't think that's new in Maverick.
[05:24] <RAOF> Would anyone care to sponsor mesa 7.8.2 http://cooperteam.net/Packages/mesa_7.8.2-2ubuntu1.dsc & http://cooperteam.net/Packages/mesa_7.8.2-2ubuntu1_source.changes ?
[05:25] <RAOF> It contains a crash fix required for GLX 1.3 (ie: Unity & clutter) before we can upgrade to Xserver 1.9
[05:27] <cutterjohn> BAK
[05:28] <cutterjohn> RAOF Yes, I tried that and it bitched at me
[05:28] <cutterjohn> You need to pick a package blah blah
[05:29] <cutterjohn> but I've got no package to target... so...
[05:29] <RAOF> linux
[05:29] <cutterjohn> actually it gives me no option to pick a package to begin with, just bitches about it
[05:30] <cutterjohn> if I pick other
[05:30] <RAOF> Right.  It wants you to run “ubuntu-bug linux”
[05:31] <cutterjohn> wow, how helpful of it
[05:31] <RAOF> (Because the kernel is a reasonable guess as to the package)
[05:32] <cutterjohn> ok that worked, i'm going "I don't know" because I don't
[05:32] <andersk> Can I draw somebody’s attention to bug 610710, which makes dpkg-dev uninstallable?
[05:33] <andersk> The timedate source package was replaced with libtimedate-perl, but timedate was deleted in Ubuntu without libtimedate-perl having been synced.
[05:34] <cutterjohn> well, that was f-ing useless as I got to enter no desc... clues as to what adventurous steps I should take to actually enter a bug report with a desc?
[05:36] <cutterjohn> oh wait, it looks like it opened a new web page... brb
[05:36] <cutterjohn> (without popping it to the foregorund ffs)
[05:39] <andersk> Is there a way to get a list of all the packages Riddell deleted so I can file more bugs?
[05:44] <cutterjohn> ok, thanks guys got in a bug report finally after playing the IF game Submit an Ubuntu Bug Report game
[05:44] <cutterjohn> Infocom would be astounded
[05:48] <cutterjohn> (and I didn't get all the nice packaging and extras for playing it...)
[05:52] <cutterjohn> most amazing thing, my desktop icons are now gone as well, with no changes in the nautilus desktop display config
[07:10] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[07:13] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[07:29] <pitti> zul: ... mysql ... -v ..
[07:30] <pitti> zul: I'll reupload myself
[07:38] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39]  * pitti hugs dholbach
[07:40]  * dholbach hugs pitti back
[08:19] <zyga> zul, ping
[08:27] <rsalveti> hallyn: just sent a request to merge for bug 610742
[08:27] <rsalveti> just to remove the annoying unsupported syscall that was removed for lucid
[08:28] <rsalveti> it's just a backport from upstream, so np applying it now
[08:29] <rsalveti> lool: you may also be interested, if you plan to run user mode emulation on current maverick qemu
[08:30] <rsalveti> time to get some sleep :-)
[08:36] <Damascene> hi,
[08:37] <Damascene> ArneGoetje, there?
[08:37] <Damascene> bug 603022
[08:46] <Damascene> is it possible to include Mlterm in main before the next release?
[08:53] <ArneGoetje> Damascene: yes
[08:53] <Damascene> thanks
[09:03] <vish> ArneGoetje: hi , could you review merge https://code.launchpad.net/~joel-auterson/ubuntu/maverick/ibus/newmenuname/+merge/30391 ?
[09:04] <ArneGoetje> vish: yep
[09:05] <vish> thanks.
[09:13] <mvo> DktrKranz: hi, would you be interessed in adding a aptdaemon backend to gdebi? now that we use the debfile.py from python-apt that should be really straightforward :)
[09:18] <lool> rsalveti: You could have a patch which doesn't emulate pselect but kills the warning
[09:18] <Chipzz> ArneGoetje: are you aware that this is not the first time Damascene asks this question, that several concerns were raised, and that I don't see those concerns addressed in the MIR?
[09:18] <ArneGoetje> Chipzz: which concerns do you mean?
[09:19] <Chipzz> ArneGoetje: one concern I remember was integration with the fontconfig etc stack
[09:19] <Chipzz> or the lack thereof
[09:21] <Chipzz> ArneGoetje: there were other concerns too, but he asked that question, what, about a month ago I think, and I saw several concerns (which the fontconfig issue was one of) raised, and I seriously doubt those issues have been resolved
[09:23] <dholbach> who can I persuade to give a packaging training session on 12th Aug 12:00 UTC or 19th Aug 18:00 UTC or 26th Aug 0:00 UTC? :)
[09:23] <dholbach> (19th Aug 18:00 UTC might be taken already)
[09:33] <ArneGoetje> Chipzz: Do you have any alternative for RTL language users?
[09:39] <Chipzz> ArneGoetje: no, just making you aware of the situation
[09:40] <Chipzz> ArneGoetje: you gave him a straight "Yes" without being aware of the larger picture
[09:41] <ArneGoetje> Chipzz: I am aware of those issues and also that we cannot fix them. The proper solution would be to fix vte. But I don't see this happening anytime soon. Therefor mlterm is currently the only possibility to give RTL language users a working terminal.
[09:41] <c_korn42> hello. I wanted to install lucid yesterday and tried the daily build (alterate amd64). after clicking "install ubuntu" I got the error: "uncompress error -- system halted" is this a known problem ? I could reproduce it on my notebook. I created a bootable usb stick from the iso using Ubuntu's creator
[10:08] <soren> I'm putting some finishing touches on the first revision of some OpenStack packages. OpenStack does not require copyright assignment, so every single file may have lots of copyright holders, and almost no two files will have the same set of (copyright holder, year) tuples. Am I really supposed to repeat the copyright statements from every single source file in debian/copyright?
[10:11] <diwic> soren, I'm afraid so
[10:12] <soren> Does anyone know off-hand of an example of such a monstrous debian/copyright. We're hardly the first project to not require copyright assignment, so there must be prior art to this.
[10:14] <diwic> soren, just pick one and see, I just had a look at audacity e g
[10:14] <diwic> soren, that one does not follow the spec
[10:15] <diwic> soren, so forget my advice and ask someone else. Sorry.
[10:16] <soren> :)(
[10:16] <soren> :)
[10:19] <DktrKranz> mvo: hi! could do, I'm short of time lately, but I plan to fix some issues before maverick and squeeze are out, and will save a couple of days to do some work on it
[10:19] <soren> Perhaps an archive admin could weigh in on acceptance criteria for this sort of thing?
[10:19] <mvo> DktrKranz: nice, you rock :) if I find some spare moments, I will try to attack it too, but time is short
[10:20] <mvo> DktrKranz: just keep me updated so that we don't duplicate anything :)
[10:22] <DktrKranz> mvo: it seems "being short on time" is a common ill :)
[10:22] <mvo> yeah :)
[10:23] <vish> tkamppeter: hi .. attached a debdiff to fix Bug #554174 , could you review it ?
[10:25] <soren> cjwatson: You're listed as the AA for today, maybe you can help me out? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright says "
[10:25] <soren> In the case of large numbers of trivial copyright holders, not all need be mentioned (ask on IRC if you are in doubt), but all licenses must be listed"
[10:25] <soren> (last bullet under "Common errors")
[10:26] <ogra> soren, he is on vac. afaik
[10:26] <soren> Oh, right.
[10:26] <soren> Darn it.
[10:26] <soren> It also says later on that identifying copyright holders is a legal requirement.
[10:26] <soren> ...so I feel at a bit of a loss.
[10:29] <ogra> soren, /usr/share/doc/linux-image-$(uname -r)/copyright ;)
[10:29] <ogra> i dont think it requires copyright assignment, does it ?
[10:29] <soren> I don't believe it does, no.
[10:29] <soren> Heh: Linux is copyrighted by Linus Torvalds and others.
[10:30] <soren> that was easy.
[10:30] <ogra> yeah :)
[10:30] <soren> Now I just need to represent that in a DEP-5 style debian/copyright.
[10:31] <dholbach> Daviey: what was the wysiwyg editor you recommended again?
[10:33] <mvo> DktrKranz: I upload 0.6.2 for now and sync it to ubuntu
[10:45] <soren> Would http://paste.ubuntu.com/470166/ be an acceptable debian/copyright? Of course assuming that it's true :)  The vast majority of the code is copyright OpenStack LLC and/or NASA, the rest is copyright a bunch of other people.
[11:08] <Damascene> I don't know where I should post this but the link (partners) http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/program in the wiki is broken
[11:11] <DktrKranz> mvo: good, as several people reported bugs against kdesudo
[11:12] <dholbach> Damascene: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug
[11:12] <mvo> DktrKranz: great, one step a time :)
[11:13] <Damascene> Report a bug about Ubuntu Website "Pro..."?
[11:17] <Riddell> asac: do you have an opinion on bug 598874 ?
[11:18] <Damascene> bug 609553
[11:18] <Damascene> it was reported earlier
[11:19] <asac> Riddell: i only pushed it to get it rebuilt ;)
[11:19] <asac> so i dont have a qualified opinion ;)
[11:20] <asac> Riddell: while you are at it ... could you please sync ntrack 008-1 from unstable ;)?
[11:20] <asac> Riddell: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/n/ntrack/ntrack_008-1.dsc
[11:25] <Riddell> asac: ok done
[11:26] <Riddell> asac: how can I tell why libqtwebkit4 isn't installable on arm?
[11:31] <ogra> hmm, whats up with libtimedate-perl ?
[11:33] <asac> Riddell: good question. ogra could try it locally and tell you whats going on (i dont have a board running)
[11:33] <asac> i would assume that something failed to built ;)
[11:33] <asac> (or is out of sync)
[11:33]  * ogra only has a chroot either, but that should do
[11:33] <ogra> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:33] <ogra>   libqtwebkit4: Depends: phonon but it is not going to be installed
[11:33] <ogra> E: Broken packages
[11:34] <ogra> Riddell, ^^^
[11:36] <Riddell> ogra: what happens if you try to install phonon?
[11:36] <ogra> Riddell, works
[11:36] <Riddell> umm
[11:36] <ogra> apt-get install libqtwebkit4 phonon that is
[11:37] <Riddell> ogra: libtimedate-perl has only just been synced
[11:37] <ogra> oh, k
[11:38] <Riddell> ogra: so now you can install libqtwebkit-dev ?
[11:38] <ogra> apt-get install libqtwebkit-dev phonon seems to work
[11:39] <Riddell> myeh, so why is kde4libs not building
[11:39] <Riddell> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/52626705/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.kde4libs_4%3A4.4.92-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:39] <Riddell> ogra: could you try installing all the packages it's doing there?
[11:40] <ogra> did it fail again ? i just gave it back
[11:40] <Riddell> ogra: finished 3 minutes ago
[11:40] <ogra> ah, k
[11:40] <ogra> that was quick
[11:41] <Riddell> ogra: quick because it failed :(
[11:42] <ogra> apt-get build-dep kde4libs seems to have no probs
[11:48] <Riddell> ogra: so it's a complete mystery
[11:48] <ogra> i dont see any webkit in the deps it installs though
[11:52] <Riddell> ogra: then your apt sources haven't updated to the newest version?
[11:52] <Riddell> this is the build-deps  http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/Dvvm5fjC
[11:52] <ogra> i just did an apt-get update
[11:53] <ogra> in fact i had to add a deb-src entry
[11:54] <ogra> so i would definately expect the latest versions to be there
[11:55] <Riddell> ogra: then apt-cache showsrc kde4libs  should show 4:4.4.92-0ubuntu4 which build-deps on libqtwebkit-dev
[11:56] <ogra> Version: 4:4.4.92-0ubuntu4
[11:57] <ogra> libqtwebkit is in there
[11:58] <ogra> i dont get why i would get the old deps
[12:01] <Riddell> ogra: this may all be down to the libtimedate-perl issue
[12:03] <ogra> oh, that might be indeed
[12:03] <ogra> it just finished building
[12:04] <ogra> i'm watching it anyway for some image testbuilds, if it shows up on ports i'll give back kde4libs again
[12:05] <Riddell> ogra: it's an arch all package, I just accepted the binary, we can start building stuff again after the next publisher run
[12:08] <ogra> Riddell, great, though ports seems to have a slight delay in mirroring
[12:20] <Damascene> ArneGoetje, what should I do now?
[12:22] <Damascene> asac, can we talk about Bug #603022
[12:36] <xelister> hi, what is the best way to quickly learn how to make custom livecd?
[12:42] <Riddell> xelister: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[12:44] <ricotz> hi, could someone trigger the build of https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/2.21.5-1ubuntu1 the missing dep libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev is available now
[12:46] <asac> Damascene: not sure ;) ... what you want to say?
[12:55] <mvo> mdz: we talked a while ago about the super slow update-manager progress bar with nvidia, is this still a issue for you? it appears that I can (finally!) reproduce the problem
[12:56] <xelister> Riddell: I need to choose what things are installed by default (throw out some applications, add nvidia and radeon drivers),  and run some custom script on boot.  Easy to do?
[12:56] <xelister> Riddell: also, the livecd should have propertiary drivers for both nv and radon and on boot detect and choose the needed one.. will that work?
[12:56] <xelister> also make bootup fast, just boot to live cd, not offer to install
[12:57] <Riddell> xelister: that URL explains how to install and uninstall bits
[12:57] <allquixotic> Hi, I am trying to build a source package from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox/ubuntu on Lucid, but I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/470225/ Any suggestions?
[12:59] <ansgar> allquixotic: Build-dependencies not installed?
[12:59] <allquixotic> ansgar: I have all the required build-depends.
[13:02] <allquixotic> bzr-buildpackage can't find the source tarball. So I guess the question is where are the sources for the git snapshot packages in the current Maverick development for ubuntu-desktop.
[13:04] <allquixotic> nevermind; answered my own question! I needed a deb-src line for maverick.
[13:19] <Riddell> tjaalton: the guy who does the cool electric piano keyboards with kubuntu on is asking "I need also to know IF the new Xorg server 1.8 or 1.9 is included in 10.10" do you have a quick answer?
[13:22] <zul> zyga:pong
[13:27] <zyga> zul, are you going to work on the server papercuts project?
[13:28] <zyga> ivanka, congratulations on walking 100km :-)
[13:28] <zul> zyga: yes
[13:29] <zyga> zul, I'm interested in the tracepath/traceroute papercut
[13:29] <zul> zyga: ok
[13:29] <zyga> zul, would you be interested in taking over and finishing the code required to implement it?
[13:29] <zul> zyga: sure
[13:30] <zyga> zul, great, if you want I can help you with this and share the branch I have for this feature
[13:30] <zul> zyga: yes please
[13:30] <zyga> zul, one second
[13:32] <zyga> zul, I'm copying my branch (a snapshot of it really) to people.c.com
[13:33] <ivanka> zyga: thank you :-)
[13:33] <zyga> zul, http://people.canonical.com/~zyga/trunk.dbus.tar.gz
[13:33] <zyga> zul, get that tarball please
[13:34] <zyga> zul, hopefully your need can motivate me to finish this :D
[13:34] <zyga> ivanka, quite a feat really, how did you train to do that?
[13:37] <zyga> zul, this code is really different from what c-n-f was before but it has support for a quirk like this
[13:37] <zyga> zul, what it _doesnt_ have is the user interface
[13:37] <zyga> zul, if you think that finishing this is within the scope of your project I'll gladly walk you through the coded
[13:38] <zul> zyga: actually its probably not a papercut if its modiyinfg code for command-not-found you might want to talk to mvo about it though
[13:38] <zyga> zul, ok
[13:39] <zyga> zul, _or_
[13:39] <zyga> zul, you could get the trunk from ubuntu and just add a one-liner that knows this particular problem
[13:39] <zul> zyga: i could do that :)
[13:40] <zyga> zul, the code is in lp:ubuntu/command-not-found AFAIR
[13:40] <zul> zyga: gotcha
[13:40] <bigon> could someone have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/pygi/+bug/604121
[13:40] <bigon> ?
[13:45] <tkamppeter> vish, your debdiff is OK. If you have upload rights on system-config-printer (in main), upload it (but take into account that I uploaded it yesterday, apply your change to the newest version).
[13:46] <vish> tkamppeter: i dont have upload rights :s , could you upload it?
[13:47] <tkamppeter> vish, no problem, and thanks for the fix.
[13:47] <vish> tkamppeter: np , thanks :)
[13:52] <tkamppeter> vish, uploaded.
[13:53] <vish> neat! thanks.
[13:59] <Damascene> were I can find Rick Spencer?
[14:00] <RainCT> davmor2: He's at GUADEC, dunno if he is connecting to IRC..
[14:00] <RainCT> err Damascene
[14:01] <Damascene> what?
[14:01] <Damascene> are you Rick?
[14:03] <davmor2> Damascene: this message was for you -> He's at GUADEC, dunno if he is connecting to IRC..
[14:03] <Damascene> ok thanks
[14:04] <RainCT> Damascene: No. He usually hangs around in this channel, but this week he is at a conference (with rather bad internet connection) so I don't know if he'll be connecting. I guess you can just send him a mail.
[14:04] <Damascene> I think he found a good connection today. I'm really upset with him comment on my MIR
[14:05] <Damascene> if there is a program with bug it should be fixed or replaced. we just asked for alternative and it become "won't fix"
[14:05] <Damascene> bug 603022
[14:10] <RainCT> Damascene: Well, a bug isn't really the place to discuss such a thing.
[14:12] <Damascene> hi rickspencer3
[14:13] <rickspencer3> hi Damascene
[14:13] <Damascene> I've updated bug 603022 with some information if  you don't mind
[14:13] <Damascene> I hope you change your mind
[14:14] <rickspencer3> Damascene, I'm still confused
[14:14] <rickspencer3> why can't users just install their terminal of choice?
[14:14] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure what problem is attempted to be solved
[14:16] <Damascene> rickspencer3, the same could be said about translations and fonts, what is language selector for?
[14:17] <Damascene> any one could just install those things by him self
[14:17] <rickspencer3> Damascene, but you're talking about a terminal
[14:17] <rickspencer3> right?
[14:17] <Damascene> yeah, do you question the important of terminal?
[14:17] <rickspencer3> no
[14:18] <Damascene> so what is it?
[14:18] <hallyn> rsalveti: ok - thx for the heads up, though I can't do merges myself at the moment.  I suspect kirkland will see it.
[14:18] <kirkland> halfline: what am I looking at?
[14:18] <rickspencer3> Damascene,  I question the value of shipping and supporting 2 terminals to solve the case
[14:19] <Damascene> we can't use ls, apt-get cat and many other terminal programs probably with vte
[14:19] <Damascene> it's not that you are going to install it for every users
[14:19] <rickspencer3> the solution sounds rather complicated and hard to maintain when there is a work around as easy as installing a different terminal
[14:19] <Damascene> only the users who chose to localize their systems
[14:19] <rickspencer3> right
[14:20] <rickspencer3> I think if we were to invest in this it would make much more sense to make Gnome Terminal work
[14:20] <kirkland> hallyn: what am I looking at?
[14:20] <Damascene> rickspencer3, I'm getting the idea that you have not read the original bug carefully
[14:21]  * hallyn scrolls up
[14:21] <rickspencer3> Damascene, perhaps
[14:21] <hallyn> 02:29 < rsalveti> hallyn: just sent a request to merge for bug 610742
[14:21] <Damascene> rickspencer3,  all this have been discussed earlier
[14:21] <hallyn> kirkland: ^
[14:22] <Damascene> rickspencer3, one of the main things was that vte is not going to be fixed any time soon while Mlterm is ready and it can just be a choice in Language Selector
[14:22] <Damascene> just a choice
[14:22] <rickspencer3> that doesn't change my feedback
[14:23] <Damascene> ok, thanks for helping
[14:23] <rickspencer3> I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just not convinced we've arrived at a good solution yet
[14:23] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: last thing I heard was that upstream is not interested in fixing vte for RTL language users, since it would be "too difficult to do so". So, who do you think can fix vte and in which time frame?
[14:24] <rickspencer3>  ArneGoetje I don't know
[14:24] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: well, mlterm is the _only_ terminal out there which supports RTL languages properly.
[14:24] <rickspencer3> so users who need it can install it
[14:25] <rickspencer3> my point is that the work around is not too hard, but the solution that has been proposed to avoid the work around seems overly complex and requires supporting another VT
[14:25] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: then that should be communicated better
[14:25] <rickspencer3> I'm communicating right now
[14:25] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: I mean to the RTL language users
[14:26] <rickspencer3> what specifically was not communicated?
[14:26] <rickspencer3> never mind, it's a moot point
[14:26] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: That mlterm is what they want as a terminal solution and how to get it
[14:27] <rickspencer3> so many many people choose alternate software, that's why we have Universe and that's why we have software-center
[14:29] <Damascene> rickspencer3, but you don't ship broken software and tell a user to search for a solution him self in a bug report suggesting using mlterm. It will be kind of you if you suggest that early when a user seeks for language support
[14:29] <kirkland> hallyn: ah, merging qemu ... personally, i'd say just wait for 0.13;  but if you're feeling motivated, you can do the new dot release
[14:31] <Riddell> topicdiff, builds no longer broken now that libtimedate-perl is in again
[14:32] <ogra> still not promoted to ports yet :/
[14:32] <geser> Riddell: thanks for those removals yesterday
[14:33] <Riddell> geser: mm well I removed a few packages which ought not to have been :(
[14:34] <LucidFox> Hmm, I wonder
[14:34] <bigon> mmmm I've added the ubuntu-mozilla-daily ppa but it seems that some info of the Release file are not take into account by apt
[14:34] <LucidFox> Would it be possible to request for my Ubuntu developer privileges to be suspended until Canonical's font is publicly released?
[14:34] <bigon>  500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu/ lucid/main Packages origin ppa.launchpad.net
[14:36] <Damascene> rickspencer3, sorry for heating things like that but I thought I should provide as much support as I can for my language and making ubuntu better
[14:39] <rickspencer3> snap
[14:39] <rickspencer3> I hope he didn't go away mad
[14:40] <LucidFox> Alternatively I guess I could just publicly upload the font, presumably at the cost of my Ubuntu membership but meh
[14:43] <hallyn> kirkland: that particular bug appears to be a papercut, so i'd say let's wait
[14:51] <rsalveti> lool: the patch basically kills the warning
[14:51] <rsalveti> was the upstream decision
[14:52] <rsalveti> hallyn: kirkland: will qemu be updated before A3?
[14:52] <rsalveti> that's why I created the bug
[14:53] <lool> rsalveti: The initial patch implemented the syscall using libc; I think it's not acceptable
[14:53] <rsalveti> because I'm using qemu with rootstock, and without this patch my logs are huge, and I have to filter it to not show to the user
[14:53] <lool> rsalveti: I wonder why we didn't send a patch to use sys_pselect instead
[14:53] <rsalveti> lool: probably because no one worked on this
[14:54] <lool> rsalveti: I would recommend you don't merge a patch implementing the syscall if it's against upstream recommendation
[14:54] <rsalveti> it should be an easy fix, but someone have to do it :-)
[14:54] <lool> rsalveti: did you plan to add a different patch which just skips the warning for this syscall?
[14:54] <rsalveti> lool: but this is my patch
[14:54] <lool> rsalveti: If you don't have the time yourself, you could ask Michael, he wrote the original one
[14:54] <ttx> slangasek: I'd welcome a comment of yours on bug 570944 -- if you agree with it, I'll make it happen.
[14:54] <rsalveti> just skipping the warning
[14:54] <lool> rsalveti: Oh ok
[14:54] <lool> rsalveti: I didn't see that one
[14:55] <lool> rsalveti: but we're on the same page
[14:55] <rsalveti> that's why this patch is simple and can be merged
[14:55] <lool> rsalveti: Right
[14:55] <rsalveti> lool: the original patch from michael was dropped
[14:55] <rsalveti> they just got the one that adds the define
[14:56] <rsalveti> and later one they pushed another patch just to remove the message
[14:56] <rsalveti> *later on
[14:57] <ttx> Hmm... PPAs "start in..." estimates look a lot like XP filecopy progress bar ones.
[14:57] <rsalveti> lool: the patch that implements pselect was dropped from our package when was updated for 12.3
[14:58] <lool> rsalveti: I'd love if you could review which patches were dropped
[14:58] <lool> rsalveti: I dont think it was a good change to remove all patches in there, without any warning (at least I didn't get one)
[14:58] <rsalveti> lool: well, this is the first I noticed, but I can review the others
[14:59] <rsalveti> because when I started apt-get I got a huge huge log
[14:59] <rsalveti> and when I tested on lucid it worked fine
[15:00] <rsalveti> lool: kirkland: if we're not getting the qemu .13 update before a3 I'd like to get this patch merged, if possible
[15:00] <bankix> Hi. I'm trying to build a deb package for Ubuntu 10.04. But depending on the architecture (i386,amd64) I have to delete one or another directory (to get rid of platform-dependet stuff) and use one or the other startup script. How can I detect which platform is currently being built?
[15:00] <hallyn> rsalveti: lool: yes, we will be merging qemu before A3
[15:00] <hallyn> we're reallly hoping for 0.13.0, but if that doesn't happen then definately 0.12.5
[15:00] <Riddell> hmm, builds are still broken
[15:00] <hallyn> 0.13.0 is supposed to be GA'd a few days before freeze...
[15:01] <Riddell> lamont: when is libtimedate-perl 1.2000-1 likely to be available to buildds?
[15:02] <rsalveti> hallyn: oh, ok, that would work then :-)
[15:02] <rsalveti> lool: will see if we're also missing any other patch, so it can be included on 0.13 when we have the new release
[15:40]  * ogra kicks the publisher
[15:41] <hallyn> rsalveti: .
[15:41] <hallyn> rsalveti: just wondering, how annoying is the pselect thing?  does it consume all cpu with constant scrolling of error msgs, or jsut warn once?
[15:42] <hallyn> rsalveti: i see no problem with the patch, so my only motivation for nack'ing would be my insane desire to keep the delta to upstream minimal
[15:42] <rsalveti> hallyn: basically I can't read the logs if I don't filter it
[15:42] <hallyn> heh
[15:42] <hallyn> all right, that sounds worthwhile then
[15:42] <hallyn> thanks
[15:42] <rsalveti> should be easy to remove it later
[15:46] <_UsUrPeR_> hey all. thought I would point out something that may apply to ubuntu developers. I have downloaded and re-downloaded the ubuntu alternative 64-bit installation cd 3 times now, and there appears to be a problem with the kernel during installation. The errors I am seeing in the installation log have been recorded here: http://pastebin.com/usdjXmDB
[15:47] <_UsUrPeR_> If this is still not the correct forum, I can put in a bug report, or just move this to #ubuntu, and I apologize.
[15:47] <_UsUrPeR_> FYI: I am using the alternate installation for LVM support, and have attempted to install with and without an internet connection.
[15:53] <SpamapS> pitti: ping
[15:59] <rsalveti> hallyn: thanks for the review, no I need need someone with a good heart and upload permission :-)
[15:59] <rsalveti> lool: kirkland: ^? :-)
[15:59] <rsalveti> *now
[16:00] <hallyn> rsalveti: or mathiaz perhaps
[16:01] <kirkland> rsalveti: i can sponsor for you;  have you pushed a branch and a merge proposal to launchpad?
[16:01] <rsalveti> kirkland: yep, all ready :-)
[16:01] <rsalveti> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/ubuntu/maverick/qemu-kvm/fix-610742/+merge/31120
[16:02] <hallyn> holy cow!  i thought a jet was going overhead.  no, it just started POURING out there
[16:04] <pitti> hello SpamapS
[16:06] <cyphermox> kirkland, I'm wondering about the status of the isc-dhcp sync, or if there are any blockers for it.  it replaces the packages of dhcp3 with the new version 4 packages, which I'd need for new versions of network-manager.
[16:17] <bdrung> dholbach: ping
[16:19] <dholbach> bdrung: pong
[16:19] <bdrung> dholbach: the sponsor overview looks wrong: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[16:19] <dholbach> what about it?
[16:19] <dholbach> can you file a bug?
[16:19] <dholbach> I'm very very busy
[16:20] <bdrung> dholbach: the css file seems to miss
[16:21] <dholbach> bdrung: which one?
[16:22] <dholbach> launchpad.css is there and readable
[16:22] <dholbach> same goes for the sorttable.js
[16:22] <bdrung> launchpad.css
[16:23] <dholbach> which browser do you use?
[16:23] <dholbach> the page works for me in firefox and chromium
[16:23] <bdrung> firefox
[16:23] <dholbach> maybe you can be more specific about what's broken?
[16:24] <bdrung> dholbach: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6507/sponsoring.png
[16:24] <bdrung> dholbach: it look like the default style without css applied
[16:24] <dholbach> weird, I don't get that in chromium or firefox
[16:24] <bdrung> dholbach: and sorting the columns doesn't work, too
[16:25] <dholbach> oh yeah, that's broken here too
[16:25] <dholbach> can you file a bug for that?
[16:25] <bdrung> dholbach: damn, i found the reason: adblock blocks it
[16:25] <bdrung> filter: /sponsoring/*
[16:25] <dholbach> nice
[16:25] <dholbach> ha, and the sorting works again :)
[16:26] <bdrung> dholbach: btw, https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-sponsoring/trunk contains the latest source?
[16:26] <dholbach> yes
[16:26] <bdrung> dholbach: you will get a merge request soon :)
[16:27] <dholbach> good
[16:30] <ogra> Riddell, i wonder if the publisher is dead
[16:31] <ogra> no trace of libtimedate-perl anywhere
[16:32] <Riddell> ogra: it's in the archives, doesn't seem to be available to buildds though, I pinged lamont
[16:33] <ogra> i dont see it, neither http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/t/timedate/ nor http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/t/timedate/ seem to have it
[16:50] <shtylman> where should I file a xulrunner packaging bug?
[16:50] <shtylman> launchpad? under the xulrunner project?
[16:50] <shtylman> or is there a better location?
[16:52] <ScottK> Riddell and ogra: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/libt/libtimedate-perl/
[16:53] <ScottK> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/libt/libtimedate-perl/ too.
[16:53]  * ScottK retries
[16:53] <micahg> shtylman: maybe come discuss in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[16:54] <Riddell> ScottK: ah
[16:54] <ogra> ScottK, oh, weird
[16:54] <ScottK> Riddell: Did the old timedate source package get removed yet?
[16:54] <ogra> i dont think so
[16:54] <Riddell> ScottK: I think the current problem is the libmpcdec3 -> libmpcdec6 transition
[16:54] <ogra> it is used in lucid
[16:54] <Riddell> which will stop phonon being installed
[16:55] <ScottK> ogra: Right, but it should be removed from Maverick.
[16:55] <ogra> ah, indeed
[16:55] <Riddell> ScottK: yes the old source package got removed that's what cause the problem
[16:56] <ScottK> OK.
[16:56] <ScottK> We'll see how far this one gets.
[16:57] <Riddell> ScottK: which one?
[16:57] <ScottK> This retry of kde4libs
[16:57] <Riddell> ScottK: it won't
[16:57] <ScottK> OK.
[16:57] <Riddell> ScottK: it's blocked on the libmpcdec3 -> libmpcdec6 transition
[16:57] <Riddell> I'm test compiling xine now
[16:58] <ScottK> Cool.
[17:14] <ogra> ah, my image build seems to proceed fine now
[17:15] <LucidFox> Okay, sorry to be flogging a deceased equine, but...
[17:15] <LucidFox> Where can I write to get my access to the private font PPA removed?
[17:15] <sladen> LucidFox: why do you want to? ... you can just chose not to use it/not to install it
[17:16] <sladen> LucidFox: or if you have already enabled it, you can disable it by editing /etc/apt/sources.list
[17:16] <LucidFox> Because I feel disgusted about having this privilege that non-members don't have, and I'd rather be on the same terms as them here. And if Canonical can't do that by releasing the font publicly, then I want to have as little access to it as non-members have.
[17:17] <sladen> LucidFox: okay, this is an interesting (and wider, political issue)
[17:17]  * vish thinks LucidFox is not really understanding the issue , why it was released as it is now
[17:17] <sladen> LucidFox: could you write it up on  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntufontbetatesting/+filebug  and I shall try to get some answers
[17:18] <LucidFox> vish> I received comments stating why
[17:18] <LucidFox> I still don't like having access to the closed beta of a proprietary font.
[17:19] <LucidFox> *Even* if I'm not going to actually exercise that privilege.
[17:19] <sladen> LucidFox: could you please write it up above;  the conversation will scroll off the top of IRC
[17:19] <vish> LucidFox: cool, then sladen's two choices are the best :)
[17:19] <sladen> LucidFox: but on Launchpad I can try to get a solution both to your particular access, and hopefully the wider issue
[17:19] <LucidFox> the wider issue?
[17:20] <LucidFox> What wider issue? It's just me being weird :)
[17:20] <sladen> LucidFox: the first issue you've asked is "can I write to get my access to the private font PPA removed"
[17:21] <sladen> LucidFox: the second issue is "I feel disgusted about having this privilege that non-members don't have, and I'd rather be on the same terms as them here."
[17:21] <sladen> LucidFox: the first is a technical problem;  the second is a social issue and so much harder to fix, but it is good that you have raised it
[17:22] <LucidFox> Well, I'm the only one I know who has issues with the social issue, so I don't see why it needs "fixing"
[17:24] <sladen> LucidFox: well, it's clearly upsetting you (which makes it worth fixing), but it's probably an indication that there are other people as well who might be upset.  (And here in Ubuntu we (you and I) both don't like having upset people)
[17:24] <sladen> LucidFox: so the first issue is to make you individually happy, and then to make lots more people happy
[17:26] <LucidFox> Okay, filed: bug #610934
[17:26] <sladen> LucidFox: awesome, if you click in the top-right then you can make it public
[17:27] <LucidFox> Done
[17:27] <sladen> LucidFox: actually, while we're at it, lets see if you can get the bug reports made public by default for the font issue and open things up
[17:27] <LucidFox> And the fact that it upsets me means nothing other than the fact that I'm a silly immature drama queen :p
[17:28] <sladen> LucidFox: in Ubuntu everyone is created equal (except Mark), so you're bug is as important as anyone else's
[17:29] <sladen> LucidFox: lets see what we can do try and sort it, both for yourself, and everyone else in the long run
[17:29] <sladen> s/you're/your/
[17:56] <SpamapS> pitti: sorry I pinged you and then disappeared. Are you still around?
[17:56] <pitti> SpamapS: on the phone, but yes
[18:02] <SpamapS> pitti: I have just a simple question really. I've been working with jiboumans  on adding a page per-user to the WI tracker, so each user gets their own burndown and list of work items. However, that was REALLY slow when I tried it the first time...
[18:02] <SpamapS> pitti: I added a few indexes, and it started to go *really* fast... but I haven't tested collection with the indexes. I just wanted to make sure you aren't opposed to adding a few indexes.
[18:08] <achiang> does anyone know if there is an ubuntu stack exchange site yet? or is it still in the area51 thingy...
[18:12] <SpamapS> achiang: http://ubuntumathiaz.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/vote-for-the-ubuntu-stack-exchange/
[18:12] <SpamapS> achiang: vote for it so it moves off area51 ;)
[18:12] <achiang> SpamapS: ah, thanks.
[18:13] <SpamapS> actually..
[18:13] <SpamapS> "This proposal is
[18:13] <SpamapS> 100%
[18:13] <SpamapS> complete. Committed users will be invited to the private beta soon."
[18:13] <SpamapS> so go ahead and commit now, you should get an invite to the beta. ;)
[18:14] <achiang> ah!
[18:15] <pitti> SpamapS: well, the slow thing is the chart generation
[18:15] <pitti> SpamapS: I won't generate 300 charts every day, we need an on-demand solution for that
[18:16] <pitti> SpamapS: I don't mind adding DB indexes if it helps, of course
[18:16] <SpamapS> pitti: I got it to generate a chart for ever user+milestone plus the usual teams/milestones in < 20 minutes on my macbook
[18:16] <SpamapS> pitti: the usual generation stuff runs in < 3 minutes
[18:16] <pitti> and without indexes?
[18:16] <SpamapS> 90 minutes for all the users, 20 minutes for the usual stuff.
[18:17] <pitti> SpamapS: so as I said, if it improves performance, then I'm all for it
[18:17] <pitti> wow
[18:17] <SpamapS> the chart generation stuff scans the work_items table because there's no index on status
[18:17] <SpamapS> It would actually be totally doable on-demand..
[18:18] <jiboumans> pitti, doens't this run on people.c.c?
[18:18] <SpamapS> but other than cron, do we have any way to run things on demand?
[18:18] <pitti> SpamapS: you need to add the CREATE INDEX when creating a db, as well as when upgrading a DB (and bump the format number); the code already handles that for a few other cases
[18:18] <pitti> jiboumans: yes, it does
[18:18] <jiboumans> pitti: good, idle cpus then :)
[18:19] <jiboumans> pitti: i pointed spamaps at the right spots for that fwiw
[18:20] <SpamapS> pitti: Right so, essentially I'd be speeding things up by a about 4x, and then slowing them down again by about 4x by generating everybody's page/graph. ;)
[18:20] <jiboumans> i believe spamaps is offering a package deal ;)
[18:20] <SpamapS> Thats without filtering any users out though... MANY of them are basically empty
[18:21] <pitti> would it perhaps be enough to just generate the reports, not the charts?
[18:21] <SpamapS> pitti: the charts are the hotness though. :)
[18:21] <SpamapS> pitti: and again, the chart and report generation are about the same level of impact once indexes are added
[18:22]  * pitti already sees a wave of220 "please fix my trend line" requests per day
[18:22] <pitti> s/of220/of 20/
[18:22] <SpamapS> yeah I was thinking about that too.. :-/
[18:22] <jiboumans> pitti: clearly that's solved by giving spamaps commit acccess ;)
[18:22] <pitti> hehe
[18:22]  * SpamapS glares at jib
[18:23] <jiboumans> i'm not a native speaker, but i believe 'glare' means 'thanks', right?
[18:23] <SpamapS> jiboumans: that may have worked in Poland.....
[18:24] <jiboumans> pitti: if you're concerned about the impact, i'm happy to enable it for the server team to start with
[18:24] <pitti> oh, let's try it
[18:24] <jiboumans> we think it'll really help wiht our productivity. if anyone else can benefit from it, that's great
[18:24] <SpamapS> pitti: one thing I was thinking with the trend line was to tie it to the first DONE item in a chart, rather than the first day of the cycle... because yeah, it definitely looks wrong for most users.
[18:25] <pitti> if the indexes are the biggest slowdown, then it sounds like a fair trade
[18:25] <pitti> SpamapS: on the charts/teams I looked at so far we very often had DONE items before the cycle even starts
[18:25] <SpamapS> I wouldn't mind adding a config item.. "detailed teams = x, y, z" and only generate user reports for those teams.
[18:26]  * pitti has to leave to Taekwondo now, good night!
[18:28] <SpamapS> pitti: have fun, will submit a merge proposal today and we can discuss tomorrow. :)
[19:21] <mathiaz> cr3: hey!
[19:21] <mathiaz> cr3: what's the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~cr3/ubuntu/lucid/checkbox/0.9.2/+merge/28341?
[20:14] <SpamapS> wom 1-
[20:14] <SpamapS> blaahahahfrrgh
[20:14]  * SpamapS blames the non-existent cat
[20:23] <cr3> mathiaz: I've had to spend my time on an important certification project and I've had no personal time to take care of it wearing my community hat :(
[20:59] <Fenzik> Hi All
[21:09] <mathiaz> cr3: ok - could you cancel the merge proposal then?
[21:11] <mathiaz> cr3: ie delete the merge proposal? Thanks
[21:11] <mathiaz> SpamapS: what's the state on https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/maverick/cloud-init/glusterfs-mount-example/+merge/29490?
[21:14] <Fenzik> I'm new here, wish to contribute
[21:15] <Fenzik> Can someone provide some assistance to kick start
[21:43] <cr3> mathiaz: I'd really like to have the merge proposal approved one day though, it's just a question of updating the bugs accordingly
[21:44] <mathiaz> cr3: hm - ok
[21:44] <cr3> mathiaz: I'm not particularly pleased with the situation myself :(
[21:44] <mathiaz> cr3: I'll probably keep poking at you on a weekly basis as long as it shows up on https://code.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/+activereviews
[21:46] <cr3> mathiaz: ADD - Annoyance Driven Development, that actually works well for me
[22:01] <tjaalton> Riddell: not a quick answer, but aiui 1.9 is going in soon. RAOF knows the exact time
[22:37] <judgen> Is this the place to ask for a update for a package?
[22:38] <judgen> There is a several years older version on the repos than the current version of AmiWM, and i was wondering if this tiny wm could be updated in the repos?
[22:40] <judgen> the lucid repos that is, i do not know if the current version is in maverick
[22:41] <micahg> judgen: we sync from debian and are up to date w/debian, it would probably be better to request an update in Debian and then request a sync to Ubuntu
[22:41] <micahg> judgen: that package has no Ubuntu changes
[22:42] <judgen> oh, ok..
[22:42] <judgen> thanks.
[22:43] <micahg> judgen: you can use reportbug -B debian amiwm to request the update
[22:43] <SpamapS> mathiaz: Scott merged that one manually I think
[22:45] <mathiaz> SpamapS: I don't think so - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/files/head%3A/doc/examples/
[22:45] <mathiaz> SpamapS: and https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/cloud-init/glusterfs-mount-example/+merge/29515
[22:46] <mathiaz> SpamapS: I don't see any file related to glusterfs in cloud-init trunk branch
[22:46] <SpamapS> mathiaz: :(
[22:47] <mathiaz> SpamapS: as there is another merge proposal for the upstream project, I'm going to delete https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/maverick/cloud-init/glusterfs-mount-example/+merge/29490
[22:48] <SpamapS> yeah thats probably appropriate
[22:49] <SpamapS> mathiaz: as far as libdbi, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=565562
[22:51] <mathiaz> SpamapS: hm - not sure you've attached the correct patch
[22:52] <mathiaz> SpamapS: it seems that the attachement to the bug is way to big
[22:53] <SpamapS> mathiaz: looks like it may have the binaries or something
[22:53] <mathiaz> SpamapS: yeah - I'd suggest to file a new bug
[22:53] <SpamapS> thats what I get for using 'submittodebian' and blindly trusting it. ;)
[22:53] <mathiaz> SpamapS: to fix the specific issue
[22:53] <mathiaz> SpamapS: AFAICT the docbook change is not necessary
[22:53] <mathiaz> SpamapS: so that leave the debian/rules change
[22:54] <SpamapS> mathiaz: it fails building on my pbuilder w/o it
[22:54] <mathiaz> SpamapS: hm - do you have the error message somewhere?
[22:54] <mathiaz> SpamapS: it might be an issue with your pbuilder setup
[22:55] <SpamapS> mathiaz: It was a missing template... otherws with that error solved it by installing docbook explicitly
[22:56] <SpamapS> mathiaz: while we're chatting about this, when is the last time manual syncs from debian can be requested?
[22:57] <mathiaz> SpamapS: this is the sbuild log: http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/libdbi_0.8.3-0ubuntu1-amd64-20100728-1630
[22:57] <mathiaz> SpamapS: docbook is automatically pulled in
[22:57] <mathiaz> SpamapS: till the very end
[22:57] <mathiaz> SpamapS: once we're passed FeatureFreeze a FeatureFreezeException will be required
[22:58] <mathiaz> SpamapS: currently DebianImportFreeze is in effect which means that packages are no longer *automatically* synced
[22:58] <mathiaz> SpamapS: instead a manual sync needs to be filled
[22:58] <mathiaz> SpamapS: once FeatureFreeze is in effect, the Sync request will require a FeatureFreezeException as well
[22:59] <SpamapS> Ugh.. why did config.guess and config.sub get deleted?! :-/
[23:00] <SpamapS> mathiaz: ok so new packages for ceph would be a bad reason for feature freeze exception, but updated libdbi to make main package rrdtool work is a good reason for an exception... right?
[23:01] <mathiaz> SpamapS: ceph: yes-- - given that it's part of a blueprint getting a FeatureFreeze Exception is possible
[23:02] <mathiaz> SpamapS: especially if the release team is aware of it early enough (ie before FeatureFreeze)
[23:02] <mathiaz> SpamapS: libdbi: to fix an FTBS it would be possible
[23:02] <mathiaz> SpamapS: however a new upstream version would require a FeatureFreeze Exception anyway
[23:03] <mathiaz> SpamapS: again the FeatureFreeze Exception could be granted based on the fact that it fixes a FTBS
[23:03] <SpamapS> it builds
[23:03] <mathiaz> SpamapS: oh right - it's about moving it to main
[23:03] <mathiaz> SpamapS: ?
[23:03] <SpamapS> but rrdtool's dbi support crashes using 0.8.2
[23:04] <mathiaz> SpamapS: is the rest of rrdtool working correctly?
[23:04] <SpamapS> something I'm realizing more and more should be reported as a bug
[23:04] <SpamapS> Yeah the rest works fine
[23:04] <mathiaz> SpamapS: Given that we're getting closer to FF I wouldn't wait for Debian
[23:04] <SpamapS> I think libdbi can move to main as 0.8.2 .. but it would be better to move it as 0.8.3
[23:04] <mathiaz> SpamapS: I'd just upload everything relevant to Ubuntu
[23:04] <mathiaz> SpamapS: and file relevant bugs in Debian
[23:05] <mathiaz> SpamapS: with the hope that things will be picked up by the time we open the next release cycle
[23:05] <mathiaz> SpamapS: and we can sync from Debian again
[23:05] <SpamapS> ceph is going in this week, but the debian dev that is uploading it isn't confident that it will pass the new queue because of debconf
[23:05] <mathiaz> SpamapS: we're not in FeatureFreeze yet - so we can still update to new upstream version
[23:06] <mathiaz> SpamapS: I need to jet out for a few - I'll be back
[23:06] <SpamapS> mathiaz: thanks for the reviews and such.. ttyl
[23:25] <corecode> hey
[23:26] <corecode> what's the best practise to maintain local modifcations to packages?
[23:26] <mathiaz> SpamapS: for ceph I would suggest to use the  PartnerUploadDeadline
[23:26] <mathiaz> SpamapS: which is tomorrow
[23:26] <SpamapS> corecode: what do you mean by "local modifications to packages" ?
[23:26] <corecode> just using apt-get source will give me a complete new set
[23:26] <mathiaz> SpamapS: so if ceph doesn't get through NEW by  PartnerUploadDeadline, I'd upload to Ubuntu
[23:26] <mathiaz> SpamapS: so that it gets in time for FeatureFreeze
[23:27] <corecode> SpamapS: i have modified an alsa driver to support my soundcard
[23:27] <corecode> SpamapS: i'm using the backports-modules-alsa package for that
[23:27] <mathiaz> SpamapS: for libdbi updating to the new upstream release should be done before FF
[23:27] <SpamapS> mathiaz: fairly certain ceph will not make it through NEW by tomorrow.
[23:27] <mathiaz> corecode: I'd look at PPA
[23:27] <corecode> but now with the 2.6.32-24 kernel i need to pull my changes into the new sources
[23:27] <SpamapS> mathiaz: it may not even be uploaded by tomorrow.
[23:27] <corecode> mathiaz: the problem is less the hosting or building
[23:28] <mathiaz> corecode: so what's the issue you're running into?
[23:28] <corecode> mathiaz: but a way to merge my local changes with the changes coming from ubuntu
[23:28] <mathiaz> SpamapS: ah ok - so I'd upload ceph to ubuntu (ie seek sponsorship)
[23:28] <mathiaz> corecode: I'd suggest to maintain a bzr branch
[23:29] <mathiaz> corecode: ie bzr branch lp:ubuntu/disto-release/backports-modules-alsa
[23:29] <mathiaz> corecode: and put your changes in your bzr branch
[23:29] <corecode> ah so every package has its own bzr repo?
[23:29] <mathiaz> corecode: yes
[23:29] <corecode> how do i find this repo?
[23:30] <mathiaz> corecode: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/NAME-OF-THE-SOURCE-PACKAGE
[23:30] <SpamapS> mathiaz: http://ceph.newdream.net/testing/0.21/ceph_0.21-1.dsc
[23:30] <SpamapS> mathiaz: its a native package
[23:31] <mathiaz> SpamapS: is there a PPA wich already has this package available for maverick?
[23:31] <SpamapS> mathiaz: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506040
[23:32] <SpamapS> mathiaz: Hm I suppose that warrants actually creating a PPA just for it
[23:33] <mathiaz> SpamapS: yeah - the goal is to make sure that it builds correctly on Ubuntu maverick
[23:33] <mathiaz> SpamapS: the version number of the package should also be changed - 0.21-0ubuntu1
[23:34] <mathiaz> SpamapS: if the package builds in the PPA and everything is correct we should be able to just copy it to the main ubuntu archive
[23:34] <corecode> mathiaz: thanks!
[23:35] <mathiaz> SpamapS: could you mark the status of this branch as abandoned? https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/maverick/cloud-init/glusterfs-mount-example
[23:39] <SpamapS> mathiaz: done
[23:40] <SpamapS> mathiaz: I've uploaded the ceph package here https://launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/+archive/ceph (waiting for acceptance email) ...
[23:41] <mathiaz> SpamapS: cool - I'll look at it
[23:44] <SpamapS> mathiaz: I'll also submit a patch to build lintian clean back to Sage .. would be cool if we can upload his package untouched tough


[22:38] <thumper> wallyworld: I may need to talk to you shortly
[22:38] <thumper> I say may... because I'm running the unit tests again
[22:38] <wallyworld> ok
[22:38] <thumper> ok
[22:38] <thumper> now I need to
[22:39] <thumper> wallyworld:  CAASUnitSuite.TestWatchContainerAddresses is failing for me and I'd like to talk it through
[22:39] <wallyworld> ok
[22:40] <wallyworld> did you want a HO?
[22:41] <thumper> yeah
[22:41] <thumper> 1:1?
[23:27] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm at that stage where I know why it is failing, and now wondering how it ever passed
[23:31] <wallyworld> thumper: finished SU, HO again?
[23:31] <anastasiamac> thumper: :D
[23:31] <thumper> wallyworld: sure


[12:12] <declanmg> Hi all
[12:13] <declanmg> Is there anyway to set the PATH within an /etc/somejob.conf upstart file?
[12:13] <declanmg> Or is there any other systemwide config file that it is appropriate to set the PATH in so that it is picked up by upstart jobs?
[12:14] <ion> The env stanza should probably work in somejob.conf.
[12:16] <declanmg> ion: Thanks a mill for the that. I will try it now. Have been exhaustively trying to track down docs on this online.
[12:16] <ion> init(5)
[12:16] <ion> And the cookbook
[12:19] <declanmg> ion: mmm... will research the cookbook
[12:19] <declanmg> Cheers
[12:20] <ion> Be sure to look at init(5) as well.
[12:44] <declanmg> ion: Will do, thanks again.
[12:56] <declanmg> Very useful resources, ion
[12:58] <declanmg> Though if I set the PATH env variable in job1 and export it, it is still not available in job2 (which I have set to start on job1).
[12:59] <declanmg> Section 7.2 of the cookbook seems to suggest that the exported var should carry through (in the cookbook example's case it is $foo)
[13:07] <declanmg> Alternatively, I could stick the env PATH stanza into /etc/init/env.conf but I need the upstart job to be able to pick up /etc/init/env.conf changes between server restarts.
[13:07] <declanmg> Which I don't think is possible :(
[16:52] <SpamapS> We should watch serverfault.com for good upstart questions and potential cookbook additions
[16:52] <SpamapS> http://serverfault.com/questions/307704/how-can-i-ensure-a-script-gets-executed-after-a-service-is-stopped-but-before-an/351115#351115
[16:53] <SpamapS> Have seen a number of them the last few days
[16:54] <SpamapS> oops meant to paste http://serverfault.com/questions/tagged/upstart .. though that is a good link to an answer I just gave that could use a few +1's ;)
[16:58] <jodh> SpamapS: good find, yes agreed. Also, we really must get apache2 et al upstartified (or atleast "initctl emit starting" et al added to SysV compat side of the world).
[17:16] <SpamapS> I think we should upstartify it the way I suggest.. we can't possibly handle the SIGUSR1 stuff properly with expect daemon/fork, so better that we just let apache2's pid file tracking do its thing, and just use upstart to insert the job into the event tree.
[17:17] <SpamapS> jodh: I have wondered about having rc emit events for all scripts it runs.
[17:17] <jodh> jodh: ditto. rhel6 do this I believe.
[18:55] <JanC> SpamapS: might be usefull to add a link to the cookbook to such questions too?
[18:56] <SpamapS> JanC: yeah that would probably be good
[22:21] <ahammond> I'm running ubuntu 10.10 and want to get latest upstart on it. Is there a PPA / what's the right way to do that?
[22:38] <JanC> you can't upgrade to Ubuntu 11.10 instead?
[23:10] <ahammond> JanC: that gets me 1.3 (which is good, but… no setuid / setgid) and it's a much harder sell.
[23:10] <ahammond> the answer might be to wait for 12.4 which we are planning to upgrade to anyway.
[23:11] <JanC> ah, you really mean latest-latest  ☺
[23:12] <ahammond> JanC: setuid/setgid lets me write upstart scripts that don't need sudo or start-stop-daemon: win
[23:12] <ahammond> and that logging stuff… also a big win.
[23:13] <JanC> logging stuff is cool, setuid stuff sounds more like "sugar"?  ☺
[23:14] <JanC> anyway, I don't know about a PPA, but there might be an unofficial one somewhere
[23:14] <ahammond> JanC: we have some in house apps where setuid is more like "absolute requirement" :)
[23:14] <JanC> well, sudo should work
[23:15] <ahammond> I've been using start-stop-daemon since it also gets me chdir and chroot jails if I want them.
[23:15] <JanC> or that
[23:15] <ahammond> we'll probably just put the project off until we've moved to 12.4.
[23:16] <ahammond> Hmmm...
[23:17] <JanC> it might be possible to make a backport of upstart, but that also might require some changes to existing jobs maybe...?
[23:18] <ahammond> yeah, probably too much change for production boxes. We've already scheduled the upgrade to 12.4, so...
[23:18] <JanC> ahammond: I'm sure the Ubuntu & Upstart developers would appreciate if you test this on precise *before* it gets released as 12.04 BTW  ☺
[23:19] <JanC> (and also useful for you if they fix issues before you need to depend on it)
[23:20] <ahammond> I'd love to help out. What exactly would be needed?
[23:22] <JanC> ahammond: install a system (maybe a virtual machine) with the current development version of precise, and try to write the upstart job you need; if anything fails, report bugs so that (hopefully) they get fixed before the release  ☺
[23:23] <JanC> (assuming precise already has the latest upstart, of course)
[23:23] <ahammond> JanC: looks like it's got 1.4
[23:25] <JanC> so, try to set up something similar to your production system on it, make the cahnges you want, and pester the developers until they fix all issues  ;)
[23:43] <SpamapS> upstart from precise should in theory backport just fine .. though the /run transition may require delicate handling if you try to go back to say, 10.04
[23:51] <ahammond> SpamapS: I think we'll wait until we have 12.4.
[23:54] <SpamapS> ahammond: its really just syntactic sugar.. start-stop-daemon does in fact do the same thing.
[23:57] <ahammond> SpamapS: yeah, I've been writing them using start-stop-daemon.  Want pretty instead. :)


[00:00] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: oh, ok. thanks.
[00:00] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: is it fixed in newer releases? maverick, natty
[00:00] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: indeed it is. I'm unsure about setting fix released though as that will remove the bug from the standard view?
[00:02] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: not yet. let's nominate for maverick and natty and leave a comment that maverick and natty are fixed.
[00:03] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I nominated for lucid as in maverick (and natty) the bug is fixed
[00:09] <ScottK> Ampelbein: I accepted the Lucid task and marked it fix released since it's fixed in Natty.
[00:10] <Ampelbein> ScottK: ok, thank you.
[00:32] <ScottK> Ampelbein: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
[00:33] <Ampelbein> ScottK: thank you ;-) finally have the time to get back to development a bit, was busy with RL stuff for about 2 years and am a bit rusty
[00:33] <ScottK> Ampelbein: No evidence of rust there.  I remember you from before.  Glad to see you back, your contributions were always good.
[00:34] <ari-tczew> ScottK: where did you set it as fixed?
[00:34] <ari-tczew> I see only triaged.
[00:34]  * ScottK checks.
[00:35] <ScottK> It's done now.
[00:36] <ari-tczew> Yep.
[04:38] <dylan-m> Hey, does anyone know if we're going to have a website specifically about Unity, for end users to look at? (Like what Gnome 3 has with gnome3.org)
[04:46] <ion> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
[04:48] <dylan-m> ion: Right now that one feels a little developer-heavy to me, though. Come to think of it, I just assumed it was meant to be. Err, have I been looking at it wrong? :)
[06:09] <ohsix> hyperair: you there?
[06:09] <hyperair> ohsix: yes i'm here.
[06:10] <ohsix> neat
[06:10] <ohsix> ok i was pluggin' around earlier, the laptop was really doing nothing and the hd had been asleep for 80% of the whole day, but it still overheated
[06:11] <ohsix> that prompted me to look at what the drive might be doing itself periodically, and you can enable/disable automatic offline tests
[06:11] <hyperair> i see.
[06:11] <hyperair> did that help?
[06:11] <ohsix> so the question, since you monitor your temps closely, can you do smartctl -o on on it, and see what yours does
[06:12] <ohsix> well, i turned it off; can't say much yet
[06:12] <hyperair> can i check whether it's enabled or disabled?
[06:12] <ohsix> i think so, lemme look
[06:12] <ohsix> some of the things are opaque though
[06:15] <ohsix> ok
[06:15] <ohsix> Offline data collection status: is zero with it off, 0x80 with it on; i don't see a specific query for it
[06:16] <ohsix> (thats near the top in the output of -a)
[06:16] <ohsix> the odd thing is the drive actually had extra airflow at the time but it still got very hot
[06:17] <hyperair> ah it's disabled.
[06:17] <hyperair> i just enabled it
[06:17] <hyperair> let's see the temperature then
[06:17] <ohsix> its supposed to do it every 4 power on hours apparently
[06:17] <ohsix> it might not do it right away
[06:18] <ohsix> i'm in for kicking my own ass  if this was it.
[06:18] <hyperair> lol
[06:18] <hyperair> well we'll see
[06:18] <hyperair> i'll wait 4 hours and check
[06:18] <ohsix> ok cool
[06:18] <hyperair> actually why don't you remind me in 4 hours? =p
[06:19] <ohsix> i dunno what "4 hours" might be, it's up to the drive
[06:19] <hyperair> heh
[06:19] <hyperair> it says 4 hours for mien
[06:19] <ohsix> if it gets crazy hot i'm sure you'll remember :D
[06:19] <hyperair> hmm
[06:19] <hyperair> =p
[06:20] <hyperair> what was that scttemp command you gave me the other day?
[06:20] <ohsix> well its 4 hours in Power_On_Hours terms, my drive has been on for longer than it says here so i'm assuming they only track it part of the time, the drive hadn't been spinning down at all since i installed it
[06:20] <ohsix> -l scttemp
[06:20] <ohsix> its in the output of -x too
[06:21] <hyperair> alright
[06:23] <ohsix> i'm thinking the drive has a coast mode where it really doesn't do anything but kick the drive around, instead of when, if allowed; spinning down the drive
[06:23] <ohsix> so power on hours would be awake awake & armature probably moving
[06:28]  * hyperair shrugs
[06:29] <hyperair> actually you know what?
[06:29] <hyperair> i think i'll disable the auto offline test thing..
[06:29] <hyperair> and force it to start the offline test now
[06:29] <ohsix> i checked in win7 over some bleeting i saw on the googlenets, temperatures & AAM / APM data is the same stuff i setup
[06:29] <ohsix> good idea, it'll heat it up just the same, just won't sbeak up on you :P
[06:29] <ohsix> b->n
[06:30] <hyperair> heh
[06:30] <hyperair> i don't think it'll heat up that much
[06:30] <hyperair> i've run an offline test on my previous hard disks before and nothing happened to them
[06:30] <hyperair> did you try booting into some windows or other?
[06:31] <ohsix> yep
[06:31] <hyperair> and?
[06:31] <hyperair> did it overheat?
[06:32] <ohsix> just st read the values & see if anything magical was happening
[06:32] <hyperair> did it overheat or not?
[06:32] <ohsix> it was heating up at the same rate; i din't need to poke at it :P
[06:32] <hyperair> yeah, so take your laptop back to the manufacturer and complain
[06:32] <ohsix> it was just to see if it had magic or if it was dumb stuff people were doing
[06:33] <ohsix> not an option
[06:33] <hyperair> why?
[06:33] <ohsix> plus automatic offline tests would never be turned on by the IHV, so they wouldn't have much to do with it
[06:34] <hyperair> IHV?
[06:34] <ohsix> out of warranty, and i can't really call it defective
[06:34] <hyperair> independent hardware vendor?
[06:34] <ohsix> independent har .. yea
[06:34] <hyperair> heh
[06:35] <hyperair> so it didn't start overheating until recently?
[06:35] <ohsix> couldn't put a timeframe on it, the initial problems i had with the first drive was heat just making the sectors on the disk unreadable, randomly
[06:36] <ohsix> it had been cooking the drive for a while though
[06:36] <ohsix> probably a year, i wasn't watching the temps
[06:37] <ohsix> i didn't think random stuff would go tits up either
[06:37] <ohsix> as obvious as that may be to state it, i mean; heat is what makes magnetic domains go all mushy and anneal their data right out of them
[06:38] <ohsix> people saying "high temperatures kill drives" AREN'T saying that, in fact the drive is fine, the data is not
[06:40] <ohsix> you could probably run them until solder started melting if you weren't interested in the data on them
[06:41] <ohsix> but, i can live with using augmented airflow when i run an offline scan; or defrag, its rare enough
[06:52] <ohsix> hyperair: anything yet? should have beenlong enough to go higher than normal
[06:52] <hyperair> ohsix: temperature hasn't gone above 45.
[06:52] <hyperair> oh wait
[06:52] <hyperair> it hit 46.
[06:52] <ohsix> is it running the test? -x has a log of statuses
[06:52] <hyperair> but it came back down to 45
[07:00] <hyperair> it's running,i think
[07:01] <ohsix> smartctl -l selftest /dev/sda
[07:02] <ohsix> depending on the brand, actual ongoing status might only be in smartctl -l selective
[07:18] <hyperair> it doesn't say it's running O-o
[07:19] <ohsix> you did -t offline right
[07:19] <hyperair> yes i did
[07:20] <ohsix> hm\
[07:20] <ohsix> it should at least sayit was cancelled
[07:21] <ohsix> if it got the command at all and did anything with it
[07:24] <hyperair> it said it was started and would end at some other time..
[07:24] <hyperair> i ran a short selftest and that bumped up the temperature though
[07:25] <ohsix> oh
[07:25] <ohsix> you need -t long, not -t offline
[07:25] <ohsix> most drives won't actually do a prompt offline scan
[07:25] <ohsix> uff sorry, should have said that
[07:28] <hyperair> meh
[07:29] <ohsix> long does what offline does though
[07:30] <ohsix> offline has a very specific meaning with regard to the smart values, its probably wht no drives do prompt tests with that name anymore
[07:30] <hyperair> alright, it says it'll be done by 17:57
[07:30] <hyperair> now it's 15:30
[07:31] <ohsix> if you think about it, an offline test doesn't make sense to do prompted, "offline" is stuff the drive just does, but it can also do the test if you do -o on
[07:33] <hyperair> ohsix: so anyway, temperature has risen to 51 degrees
[07:33] <ohsix> keen
[07:34] <hyperair> 52.
[07:34] <ohsix> my hd has been 41-42 the whole time we've been chatting, but it's a very cool room
[07:35] <ohsix> when you've had enough -X will abort the test :P
[07:35] <hyperair> okay, it's peaked at 52
[07:35] <hyperair> yeah i know about -X. smartctl mentioned it when i started
[07:35] <ohsix> right
[07:36] <hyperair> but yeah so it's peaked at 52, and this room isn't exactly very cool.
[07:36] <ohsix> i bet you have metal nearby in the drive bay that wicks away some heat
[07:36] <hyperair> yes
[07:36] <ohsix> but all i needed to know was that it'd go right past normal doing it
[07:36] <ohsix> thanks
[07:36] <hyperair> the drive bay has this metal casing thing that screws onto the disk and keeps it in place
[07:37] <ohsix> right, but i mean outside of that
[07:37] <hyperair> 53 degrees.
[07:37] <hyperair> no there isn't much metal outside of that
[07:37] <hyperair> everything's plastic
[07:37] <ohsix> like the railing or something under it
[07:37] <ohsix> weird
[07:37] <hyperair> nope
[07:38] <ohsix> ok see how hot it will get, you should be good till 60c if it's not for more than a few hours, so you won't hurt anything
[07:39] <hyperair> ok
[07:40] <ohsix> knowing how fast it cools down after the test stops would be neat too
[07:41] <hyperair> uh oh
[07:41] <hyperair> smartctl -l scttemp /dev/sda showsError invalid Temperature History Size or Index
[07:41] <ohsix> heh
[07:41] <ohsix> have you tried to run it during a test before
[07:42] <hyperair> nope
[07:42] <ohsix> drive might not do it
[07:42] <hyperair> well i had watch running on it every 2 secs
[07:42] <hyperair> now i'
[07:42] <hyperair> now i'm just watching hddtemp
[07:42] <ohsix> ah
[07:42] <ohsix> scttemp is neat, but only updates the log every 5 minutes
[07:43] <hyperair> no, it was every minute for me
[07:43] <hyperair> oh look i've got a log again
[07:43] <hyperair>  127    2011-02-27 15:41    53  **********************************
[07:43] <hyperair>    0    2011-02-27 15:42    54  ***********************************
[07:43] <hyperair>    1    2011-02-27 15:43    54  ***********************************
[07:44] <ohsix> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572965/ this is my log from today, you can see where it started the test huhuhu
[07:45] <ohsix> the temperatures are at least stable now with the changes i made to AAM/APM, mainly setting them to the suggested value :|
[07:46] <ohsix> i'm thinking of a good way ubuntu could do this for you; it doesn't make any sense to set it to the max performance number in all cases
[07:46] <ohsix> you need heavy cooling to do anything above what the vendor suggests
[07:47] <hyperair> no, not really.
[07:47] <hyperair> i've actually never heard of hard disks overheating before
[07:47] <hyperair> and i use ubuntu's default AAM/APM values
[07:48] <hyperair> and like i mentioned, there's no airflow in the hard disk bay
[07:48] <hyperair> also, the reason we set those values so high was because some broken hard disks kept parking the head
[07:48] <hyperair> so the Load_Cycle_Count kept increasing
[07:48] <ohsix> its down to the vendor
[07:48] <ohsix> ya i know, checked out all the bugs
[07:49] <hyperair> yep
[07:52] <ohsix> pegging it to one value isn't great though, turns off automatic power management alltogether
[07:53] <ohsix> i've not had a drive in my posession that would spin down when set to 128
[07:55] <ohsix> couldn't palimpsest check and see if its increasing the head unload count during timespans it, by its configuration couldn't?
[07:56] <ohsix> like if it was set to spin down every minute, but also set to 128, if it sees more than one or two in its smart sampling interval its probably doing it
[07:56] <ohsix> er i guess udisks would do that
[07:58] <ohsix> btw, people don't know their disks have been getting too hot until they've lost something, and probably not even then
[08:00] <ohsix> the hdparm script could do it if it assumes they only happen at shutdown, and ignores changes when on battery, if the startup script knows then it can peg it on full blast
[08:01] <ohsix> but i didn't think to check out that angle until the brand new drive i got did the exact same thing the one i replaced did :\
[08:26] <hyperair> ohsix: you could get a SSD instead. i think those don't heat up as much
[08:26] <ohsix> it's not for me
[08:27] <ohsix> its for people that are baking their hard drives and have no way of knowing
[08:27] <hyperair> well
[08:27] <hyperair> i'm sure they'll notice if it feels hot
[08:28] <ohsix> palimpsest could at least report if the temp is 55 or over like it does for bad sectors
[08:28] <hyperair> my hard disk's at 58 degrees celcius now, by the way
[08:28] <ohsix> nice
[08:28] <hyperair> 55 is a safe temperature.
[08:28] <hyperair> 60 isn't.
[08:28] <hyperair> or rather.. 60 is the warning level
[08:28] <hyperair> 80 is the max
[08:29] <ohsix> laptops get hot in spite of having harddrives
[08:29] <ohsix> i never got a warning at 60
[08:29] <hyperair> i guess
[08:29] <ohsix> my drive has a stated operating temperature who's upper bound is also 60
[08:30] <hyperair> perhaps you could file a bug under gnome-disk-utility and smartctl
[08:30] <ohsix> isn't it udisks & palimpsest that do that reporting & notification?
[08:30] <hyperair> er
[08:30] <hyperair> i'm not sure
[08:31] <hyperair> i think they still use smartctl's database, no?
[08:31] <ohsix> ok
[08:31] <ohsix> well they couldn't be, not for the notifications i have gotten anyways
[08:32] <ohsix> but that was for bad sectors; the drive has always had a fixed number of them too, i couldn't do anything but ignore the drive entirely to shut it up
[08:32] <ohsix> bad sectors are bad, but unless they're growing at a certain rate it should be easy to dismiss it without removing all reporting
[08:33] <hyperair> well i don't know much about this
[08:33] <hyperair> you'd probably get better feedback about this by talking to the smartmontools devels
[08:34] <ohsix> i'm not sure what they have to do with it
[08:34] <ohsix> i'm the only one using smartmontools; udisks doesn't
[08:34] <ohsix> palimpsest just shows info from udisks and lets you make udisks do stuff
[08:35] <hyperair> i'm just saying that they're more informed about hard disk operating temperatures and hard disk health and thel ike
[08:35] <hyperair> i'm pretty clueless when it comes to this
[08:35] <hyperair> i do recall some google research saying that hard disk temperatures didn't really affect their lifespan
[08:36] <ohsix> their lifespan doesn't say anything about whats on the drives though; i read the same thing
[08:37] <ohsix> and like i said, you could run the things until the solder melts, but that doesn't say anything about the stuff on the disk
[08:39] <hyperair> right, and the people who are more informed about this are the smartmontools developers
[08:39] <hyperair> not me
[08:39] <ohsix> o i c
[08:39] <ohsix> what could i practically do with the information; i've got mine under control
[08:40] <hyperair> i don't know
[08:40] <ohsix> but someone is annealing their bits right now with ubuntu
[08:42] <ohsix> setting apm to 128 was half of the solution btw
[08:43] <ohsix> with 256 it would slowly heat up, ever so slowly, but it didn't have a hard knee where cooling was beating heating like it does at 128
[08:44] <ohsix> er 254
[08:45] <ohsix> 200 would probably be a good middle ground even, though for my circumstance it'd take a while to measure
[08:48] <ohsix> if i can find out if 200 solves the problem enough here, can the number be bumped down some?
[08:51] <ohsix> hi cjwatson
[11:37] <Daviey> !regression-alert (potential) bug #725635, had 5 reports of failed to install within 18 hours... looks like squid wasn't running when restart was called, causing exit 1
[11:39] <Daviey> !regression-alert
[12:15] <chrisccoulson> Daviey, i'm guessing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid/2.7.STABLE7-1ubuntu12.2 fixes that
[12:20] <Daviey> chrisccoulson, It could be, but it could also be related to log file rotation.... I managed to reproduce the same behaviour by removing the log files, and performing a restart.
[12:20] <Daviey> Doesn't look like doing that caused squid to seg fault, so not quite sure how upstart managed to loose it's grip on squid based on doing that
[12:23] <Daviey> but looking at the diff for the current proposed package, it would probably handle that situatiob
[12:26] <Daviey> It does resolve it.
[13:41] <kirkland> andersk: hi
[13:41] <andersk> kirkland: Hi.
[13:41] <kirkland> andersk: i'm concerned about your ecryptfs error;  i have a few minutes to try and debug this, if you like....
[13:41] <andersk> Sure.
[13:42] <andersk> I discovered that ‘keyctl clear @u’ is enough to make ‘ecryptfs-mount-private’ work again.
[13:42] <andersk> (After looking at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495143 )
[13:42] <kirkland> andersk: oh, hmm, interesting....
[13:42] <kirkland> andersk: right, there's some new code in ecryptfs-utils that tries to clean that up
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: i'm trying to figure out if and how a regression crept in
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: are you running latest/greatest natty?
[13:43] <andersk> I wonder if my problem is triggered by having the OpenAFS client installed, since that also uses the kernel keyring.
[13:43] <andersk> Yes.
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: oh, hrm;  yeah, i was about to start asking keyring questions
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: i just responded to your bug, asking for the output of 'keyctl list @u'
[13:44] <kirkland> andersk: when you're getting the error
[13:44] <andersk> Posted.
[13:45] <andersk> (Bug 725862, in case anyone listening is curious about the context, BTW.)
[13:47] <andersk> I can reproduce without the openafs module loaded (after keyctl clear @u; ecryptfs-mount-private; ecryptfs-umount-private; ecryptfs-mount-private).
[13:48] <andersk> Oh wait, the hex number listed after “Inserted auth tok with sig” is different when it succeeds and when it fails.
[13:51] <andersk> And after it succeeds, I have two keys in @u, one with each value.
[13:54] <andersk> ecryptfs-umount-private only deletes the right one, so the wrong one stays around and apparently breaks it.
[14:13] <andersk> kirkland: I’m off to sleep, but thanks for looking, and let me know if there’s any other info I can provide.
[14:13] <kirkland> andersk: k, thanks
[15:39] <cdbs> My exams are beginning, so I won't respond here on IRC or anywhere until they get over on March 16th. Leave me a mail if you need to contact me immediately.
[15:40]  * cdbs /aways now for 18 days
[15:49] <penguin42> cdbs: Good luck!
[17:51] <rniamo> hi, do you have any idea how many times is needed to fix this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/710678 ?
[19:31] <belak> Is there a way of debuggin ubiquity? I'm trying to make a change to remove the option to encrypt home in the installer used in 10.04 because it crashes it...
[19:31] <belak> s/debuggin/deugging/
[19:31] <belak> Ok, I give up on the spelling thing...
[19:36] <charlie-tca> belak: by running ubiquity --debug from a terminal
[19:36] <charlie-tca> it gives you a pretty good log you can go through to find the issues
[19:37] <charlie-tca> You can also set breaks, where it will stop automatically, but I can not remember how to do it.
[19:42] <belak> ok. thanks. :)
[21:56] <RAOF> @pilot in
[22:00] <Laney> WOO
[22:01] <RAOF> Wooo?
[22:03] <Laney> It's always good when a pilot shows up. Makes me feel I am no longer on a ship travelling blind through the dark.
[22:04] <RAOF> :)
[22:04] <StevenK> Other people can also answer questions?
[22:27] <bdrung_> DktrKranz, james_w: can you update python-launchpadlib in debian unstable?
[22:36] <DktrKranz> bdrung_: python-keyring (>= 0.5) is required for that


[00:00] <elopss> i really NEED help here
[00:00] <elopss> :(
[00:02] <NCommander> rgreening, where is that room?
[00:03] <rgreening> 3rd floor
[00:03] <rgreening> vinoy
[00:05] <elopss> can anyone advise?
[00:06] <elopss> norelatime doesnt get passed to the kernel, it just cancels out any relatime in the mount command
[00:12] <micahg> pitti: what's the best way to talk to you about a blueprint you updated today?
[00:13] <nixternal> micahg: the way you just did :)
[00:13] <nixternal> right about now pitti is prolly in the pub
[00:13] <micahg> ah
[00:13] <nixternal> if he is in dallas of course
[00:14]  * micahg tried to shout in the URS IRC channel, but no one saw me :)
[00:15] <nixternal> micahg: when you do that, there is a person in the channel named after the room everyone is in..... make sure you highlight that person when sending something to the channel you want them to see, so it highlights up on the projectors
[00:15] <nixternal> ie.  if the room is vinoy, then do:      vinoy: foo is bar, and 2+2=5
[00:15] <micahg> ah, thanks, that's good to know
[00:15] <micahg> that should come in handy tomorrow when I join another chat
[00:17] <elopss> i just wrote my own mounter to pass strictatime, that works.. (mount.nfs wont pass it to the kernel)
[00:37] <directhex> where is dependency info for upstart jobs specified?
[00:41] <dtchen_> per-job, if I understand your question correctly.
[00:43] <dtchen_> (i.e., /etc/init/foo.conf)
[00:43] <directhex> dtchen_, i think there's a race condition between mythtv-backend, and disks being mounted. hence wanting to check into it
[00:43] <jdong> lol they're not really "dependencies" </nitpick>
[00:47] <directhex> mmmmmm, yes, if i understand this shonkiness correctly... mountall.conf emits the "local-filesystems"... um... trigger? (dunno the terminology). except mountall.conf daemonises the mountall command, so i see no way to guarantee that local filesystems are actually mounted by the time the next upstart script is used
[00:48] <dtchen_> directhex: missing /var/run/mythtv or something?
[00:48] <dtchen_> directhex: at least it looks like mythtv-backend.upstart is missing a pre-start script stanza
[00:49] <directhex> dtchen_, by the looks of it, if your recordings dir is on an unmounted disk, then it'll all go fubar. in this case, prevent mounting of my lvm volume
[00:50] <dtchen_> directhex: ok, so /var/lib/mythtv, I presume?
[00:50] <dtchen_> I'm not familiar with the program(s); I'm just looking at 9.10's source package
[00:50] <directhex> dtchen_, i have a custom dir on a distinct partition. that's certainly the default, though
[00:53] <dtchen_> might need to make mythtv-backend wait for all-filesystems
[00:56] <directhex> having spent an hour and a half fighting to get my home server booting again, i feel i should go to bed
[08:36] <\sh> moins
[08:43] <Laney> hiya
[12:02] <edeca> Does anybody know what file the GUI updater is looking for on a mirror in order to show the "a new version is available"?  I debmirror the entire repository but my uers never get that message.
[12:03] <edeca> (Manual updating by editing sources.list works fine)
[12:06] <tsimpson> edeca: looks like it uses http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release and http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts
[12:06] <tsimpson> from /etc/update-manager/meta-release
[12:06] <edeca> Thank you.  That's not allowed through the proxy, which will obviously make a difference.
[12:06] <edeca> I shall fix that and see.
[12:11] <edeca> Does update-manager use the proxy settings that Gnome does?  Because that shouldn't have failed if so.
[12:11] <edeca> But anyhow.
[12:14] <maxb> Hi, I need some advice. I'd like to request sponsorship for a merge of Subversion, but I have noticed that the Debian armel build has failed with a testsuite error. Does that mean I shouldn't ask for the merge?
[13:01] <emgent> \sh: moin moin!
[13:02] <\sh> hey ema
[13:02] <\sh> aeh emgent
[13:02] <emgent> how goes? :)
[13:03] <\sh> emgent, good <-----> bad somewhere in between ;)
[13:04] <emgent> hehe ;)
[13:04] <\sh> emgent, just working on fai 3.3.x for karmic and lucid
[13:10] <ashiswin> umm
[13:10] <ashiswin> hello
[13:10] <ashiswin> does anyone here know how to do OS development?
[13:13] <yofel> ashiswin: define OS -> operating system / open source / ... ?
[13:13] <ashiswin> operating system
[13:16] <ashiswin> so does anyone know how to do operating system development?
[13:17] <directhex> ashiswin, plenty of people, but you need to better define your scope. an operating system combines many components, and depending on whom you talk to, could cover any number of products and projects
[13:19] <ashiswin> umm
[13:19] <ashiswin> ok
[13:19] <ashiswin> what about
[13:20] <ashiswin> who knows how to make an OS Kernel that can print stuff to the screen
[13:20] <siretart`> try looking at lecture notes from universities that offer courses for operating systems
[13:21] <directhex> yeah, a simple kernel is a first-year course now on the degree i did
[13:21] <directhex> (it wasn't when i did it, mind you, we had to write our own malloc instead)
[13:25] <siretart`> that's fun as well :-)
[13:45] <ashiswin> so does anyone know?
[14:28] <onaogh> hi, can someone tell me which book is good if someone wants to start programming in linux environment
[14:28] <onaogh> and where i can find linux api reference
[14:41] <jussi01> onaogh: you are a programmer already?
[14:41] <pitti> Good morning
[14:42] <pitti> nixternal: Dallas> I am :) I just suck at being on IRC this week
[14:44] <nixternal> I don't blame ya, better things to do than sit on IRC :)
[15:05] <nixternal> dholbach: is there a techboard round table going on?
[15:06] <dholbach> nixternal: I have no idea
[15:06] <dholbach> nixternal: I'm in the community track roundtable
[15:06] <nixternal> ok, I heard ScottK say something in the waverly room about it, and the kubuntu devs have a bullet point in the round table if I understood him correctly
[15:07] <nixternal> if you aren't in it, then I am guessing it isn't going on now
[15:10] <Daviey> nixternal: i believe it is on right now
[15:11] <nixternal> nice of them to put it on the schedule
[15:11]  * nixternal looks for a gobby document
[15:18] <Riddelll> nixternal: techboard is http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/alamo2.ogg.m3u
[15:18] <Riddelll> do listen in and let us know if they start discussing us
[15:18] <nixternal> lovely!
[15:18] <nixternal> Riddelll: ok
[15:20] <nixternal> dholbach, soren ^^ there is one going on
[15:20] <soren> nixternal: WEll, yeah, there's a /session/.
[15:20] <Daviey> vlc alamo2.ogg.m3u ; sphinx /dev/snd/* | grep kubuntu
[15:21] <nixternal> shush
[15:21] <soren> nixternal: I asked about a /track/ :)
[15:21] <nixternal> hehe
[15:21] <soren> Err... /You/ asked about a track.
[15:21] <soren> :)
[15:59] <ebroder> pitti: Did bug #330766 regress in Lucid?
[16:29] <Fenix|work> Greetings and salutations.
[16:29] <Fenix|work> I would like to ask a question about a config before filing a 'bug' on launchpad.
[16:30] <edeca> So ask.
[16:31] <Fenix|work> Apart from bug 459730 with rsyslog and the package not creating /dev/xconsole, would it be considered a bug that Ubuntu server's default rsyslog config tries to log to /dev/xconsole considering X isn't installed as base?
[16:31] <ebroder> xconsole isn't for X
[16:31] <ebroder> It's just poorly named
[16:32] <Fenix|work> ebroder, when I try to run xconsole, I'm hinted to install x11-apps
[16:33] <Fenix|work> man xconsole (1) :: xconsole - monitor system console messages with X
[16:35] <Fenix|work> unless you're talking about the block file...
[16:35] <ebroder> Right
[16:36] <ebroder> My recollection is that /dev/xconsole predates xconsole(1)
[16:37] <Fenix|work> perhaps, but the comments in the config file state that /dev/xconsole is for use with the xconsole utility.  That's why I asked if by default on server it should be turned on.
[16:38] <Fenix|work> is there any need to use this FIFO file, or any downside?
[16:45] <cRUDE> fingerprint?
[16:49] <cRUDE> hi room: when do we see fingerprint id working?
[17:02] <davidboy> I'm wanting to run the software center from source.  I downloaded the source code from launchpad using bazzar, now which file should I run?  software-center, app.py, or something else?
[17:05] <beuno> davidboy, my guess would be software-center
[17:06] <davidboy> beuno: Thanks!  That works!
[17:42] <MacSlow> pitti, I did save the gobby notes for this session
[17:42] <StevenK> MacSlow: \o/
[17:42] <MacSlow> pitti, want then as email?
[18:38] <TheMuso> za/c
[18:44] <Fenix|work> A quick question.  Is it safe to modify /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf, or does it change with updates?
[18:45] <Laney> you can modify anything in /etc
[19:34] <jdong> Fenix|work: when dpkg attempts to update a file in /etc that you've modified, you'll be prompted about the conflict.
[19:34] <jdong> so yes, it's generally safe to edit things in /etc
[19:40] <Fenix|work> jdong, k, thx
[19:51] <snnw> Amaranth: ping
[20:12] <slangasek> Keybuk: bug #484386 has an untested patch to dkms that you may want to give a try for boot performance
[20:14] <Keybuk> sweet
[20:15] <Keybuk> stgraber: could you stop the Ubuntu QA Website tagging every single bug in Launchpad
[20:15] <Keybuk> please?
[20:15]  * Keybuk watches the mail storm
[20:28] <jdong> lol that's 30% of my lp bugmail today
[20:33] <jpds> Keybuk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/321056/
[20:36] <Keybuk> jpds: SHIT KEEPS GETTING TAGGED!
[20:37] <jpds> Keybuk: Falling, getting tagged, make up your mind!
[21:07] <stgraber> Keybuk: sorry for the flood, I just "fixed" the script that should have done that as bugs were added to the QA website since the last release, so pretty much all bugs reported on the ISO tracker for karmic just got tagged
[21:08] <jdong> do we get flooded with untagging too?
[21:08] <jdong> (haha half-kidding)
[21:10]  * ajmitch searches for all bugs with jdong subscribed to go on a tagging spree
[21:10] <jdong> oh I could just ignore LP bugmail then ;-)
[21:10] <jdong> since it seems like I get IRC notifications of important bug reports anyway ;-)
[21:22] <Amaranth> snnw: pong
[21:23] <snnw> Amaranth: Hi again:) Can I PM you about Alacarte?
[21:23] <Amaranth> If you've been looking in the code recently you probably know more about it than me but sure
[23:48] <Keybuk> slangasek: I have a bootchart without the hdparm now
[23:48] <Keybuk> that's 1s better
[23:48] <Keybuk> one down, 14 to go!
[23:49] <StevenK> Keybuk: Seconds, or calls to hdparm?
[23:49] <Keybuk> seconds
[23:50] <ion> Nice


[05:40] <Guest602423> does the libvte version in 20.04 support sixel?
[05:41] <Guest602423> in 24.04


[14:26] <zus> hello - all
[18:43] <keantoken> Hello.
[18:44] <holstein> keantoken: o/
[18:46] <keantoken> My OS wants to upgrade to Narwhal, will this break anything in Ubuntustudio? Or cause other awful annoyances?
[18:46] <holstein> your OS?
[18:46] <holstein> keantoken: dont let it push you around
[18:46] <holstein> what do you want to do?
[18:46]  * holstein is still running 10.04
[18:47] <holstein> you should do what makes you comfortable
[18:47] <holstein> is there any known issues?
[18:47] <holstein> you should be fine*
[18:47] <holstein> would i?
[18:47] <holstein> no
[18:47] <holstein> but, ugrading still takes longer that a fresh install
[18:47] <holstein> so, i sometimes do it to test the procedure
[18:48] <holstein> but, i almost always do a fresh install
[18:48] <keantoken> Ok thanks.
[18:49] <keantoken> Would it be slower and more bloated?
[18:49] <holstein> nah
[18:49] <holstein> maybe faster?
[18:49] <holstein> really depends
[18:49] <holstein> but, barring some driver issue with a newer kernel
[18:49] <holstein> it wont get slower
[18:50] <keantoken> Alright.
[18:53] <keantoken> I think Flash is causing strange problems with my graphics.
[18:53] <keantoken> Firefox keeps telling me it crashed.
[18:53] <holstein> i dont do flash on my production machine
[18:53] <holstein> BUT
[18:53] <holstein> it should be stable
[18:53] <holstein> keantoken: you using FF4?
[18:53] <holstein> and you have flash up to date?
[18:54] <keantoken> I have FF 3.6
[18:54] <keantoken> To my knowledge it updates automatically as I have seen it do, but I will check
[18:54] <holstein> keantoken: i added a PPA for ff
[18:55] <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable
[18:55] <holstein> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable
[18:55] <holstein> sudo apt-get update
[18:55] <holstein> sudo apt-get upgrade
[18:56] <keantoken> Why should I get FF4?
[18:57] <holstein> you dont have to
[18:57] <holstein> if you're having flash issues with ff
[18:57] <holstein> i would suggest upgrading or downgrading FF and/or flash
[18:58] <holstein> to try and figure out the cause
[18:58] <holstein> +, FF4 is just better
[18:58] <holstein> no reason not to have FF4
[18:58] <holstein> unless you just dont want to
[18:58] <holstein> which is fine
[18:59] <keantoken> I assumed FF3 would upgrade itself to FF4 when it was ready.
[19:00] <holstein> keantoken: no
[19:00] <holstein> thats not the way it works
[19:00] <holstein> you get ubuntu
[19:00] <holstein> say, verion 10.10
[19:00] <holstein> and FF is at the 3.0 stage
[19:00] <holstein> SO
[19:00] <holstein> you get that verion upgraded
[19:01] <holstein> if there is a rev to 3.x
[19:01] <holstein> OR
[19:01] <holstein> a security fix
[19:01] <holstein> to jump to a newer version
[19:01] <holstein> you need to build yourself
[19:01] <holstein> OR use a PPA
[19:01] <holstein> ff4 has been out for a month or so?
[19:01] <holstein> something like that
[19:03] <keantoken> I just discovered Swiftfox, but it looks like it is based on Firefox 3 source code. If I built FF4 on my system would I effectively get a Swiftfox version of FF4?
[19:03] <keantoken> Optimized to me processor etc?
[19:04] <holstein> ff4 is fast again
[19:04] <holstein> i would just try it
[19:04] <holstein> and see if its still an issue
[19:05] <keantoken> I guess I should try to fix flash before installing new things...
[19:05] <holstein> well, i would check that flash is up to date
[19:05] <holstein> then
[19:05] <holstein> try flash in other browsers
[19:05] <holstein> sudo apt-get install chromium-browser
[19:05] <holstein> for example
[19:05] <holstein> or midori
[19:05] <holstein> see if you can isolate what the issue is
[19:06] <holstein> im just postulating its FF3
[19:06] <holstein> since, i dont have flash issues
[19:08] <keantoken> Thanks, will do now.