[13:26] <smartboyhw> ailo-w: Is there a package like ubuntustudio-full that installs ALL Ubuntu Studio packages when upgrading from Ubuntu desktop?
[13:27] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: I don't believe so
[13:27] <smartboyhw> Ow man
[13:30] <ailo-w> Raining elephants and giraffes. I don't have an umbrella. This will get ugly
[13:30] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i have mentioned before that i think we should consider including this functionality in -controls possibly, although i believe installing ubuntustudio-desktop might accomlish this as well
[13:30] <smartboyhw> OH scott-work hi
[13:31] <smartboyhw> Well alright:)
[13:34] <micahg> scott-work: I don't believe that currently works in quantal (install desktop pulls in all tasks), a new metapackage could be added to the ubuntustudio-meta to accomplish this, kubuntu used to have a kubuntu-full, idk if they still do
[13:35] <smartboyhw> That's why I have that idea from Kubuntu:)
[13:46] <ailo-w> ooh, my backside is going to get wet bicycling in this weather. Going home now
[14:15] <scott-work> micahg: thanks for pointing that out
[14:21] <holstein> i like the idea of a seperate one... i used to install the *-desktop one to get the look and feel, but not all the packages
[14:21] <smartboyhw> Oh/
[14:21] <holstein> im also fine with *-desktop being the whole distro if you guys think that is more clear and easier
[14:22] <ailo> I'd rather have a new meta for that
[14:23] <ailo> The desktop is after all just one piece of the puzzle
[14:23] <smartboyhw> Me too. A new meta
[14:23] <holstein> ubuntustudio-full makes sense
[14:25] <Hypnotoad> If I'm following, lubuntu has lubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-core
[14:28] <holstein> Hypnotoad: lubuntu-core is the equivalent of *-full ?
[14:28] <micahg> !info lubuntu-core
[14:30] <holstein> ah.. so its a "tiny" lubuntu version
[14:30] <holstein> those guys work hard!
[14:31] <smartboyhw> :)
[14:31] <scott-work> i think lubuntu has a clear vision of what they want to accomplish with actionable goals. that helps alot
[14:32] <holstein> yup.. it stays light too
[14:42] <ailo> cd ..
[14:42] <ailo> hmm
[14:42] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:49] <smartboyhw> ailo: Good email on the package building thing:)
[14:50] <ailo> holstein: We don't have any thelonius type of reminder on out channels, right?
[14:51] <ailo> smartboyhw: I think so too. The simpler, the better
[14:52] <holstein> ailo: not that im aware of
[14:53] <ailo> I'm running 25 times around a lawn today
[14:53] <ailo> Just wish it'd stop raining
[14:53] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:58] <micahg> who's the docs person for Ubuntu Studio?
[15:58] <holstein> smartboy has been helping a lot with that micahg
[15:59] <micahg> and he's not around
[16:00] <holstein> micahg: i'll try and get something where it needs to go.. an email to the dev list or whatever
[16:01] <micahg> well, I'm wondering if changes in xfce4-places-plugin will affect the US docs
[16:01] <holstein> micahg: i think we should be looking at the xfce docs in general more closely
[16:02] <holstein> taking what we can from there, and contributing as well
[17:17] <ailo> I'm the documentation leaqd
[17:17] <ailo> lead*
[17:17] <ailo> micahg: ^
[17:18] <ailo> docs on the ISO?
[17:19] <holstein> ailo: you know about the xfce4-places-plugin ?
[17:19] <holstein> i dont really use XFCE that often
[17:19] <holstein> i just test our live iso's
[17:19] <ailo> Me neither
[17:19] <ailo> I also have no idea about ISO docs
[17:20] <ailo> I've only been working on docs on the wikis, and the web site
[17:20] <holstein> in theory, we should be able to help xubuntu, and just copy that stuff... a lot of it
[17:20] <ailo> We could inherit it, and add our own on top
[17:21] <micahg> that would be my suggestion
[17:21] <holstein> im sure the xubuntu folk would apprectiate that too
[17:21] <ailo> To my knowledge, there isn't really any Ubuntu Studio docs on the ISO atm
[17:21] <holstein> thats a great team as well
[17:21] <ailo> I'll look into that
[17:35] <holstein> ailo: wow... how did you get that from what asker said earlier?... thats why i pinged you though.. i figured you would know
[17:36] <ailo> He said, controlling volume with the keyboard. I tried it, and saw this image
[17:36] <ailo> Don't usually use the keyboard myself to do that
[18:30] <ailo> len-dt: Did you add the menu item "Ubuntu Studio Information"?
[18:31] <ailo> Hadn't had the chance to look at his yet
[18:31] <ailo> The IRC client is working pretty well
[18:35] <ailo> No pulseaudio applet?
[18:45] <ailo> len-dt: I'm wondering if we should add a popup informing the user that an IRC client is opening, and connecting to the Ubuntu Studio user channel with the user name, and asking if that's ok or not
[18:45] <ailo> We could add a simple python/GTK script for this
[18:59] <ailo> I started something on that. bb tomorrow
[20:52] <len-dt> ailo, there is a ubuntustudio submenu. It has 4 or 5 web pages as well as our IRC opening in xchat and the xfce4-about.
[20:54] <len-dt> ailo, there is a ubuntustudio submenu. It has 4 or 5 web pages as well as our IRC opening in xchat and the xfce4-about.
[20:54] <len-dt> Oops, I hit an up key instead of enter.
[20:55] <len-dt> The web pages are a forum page, the wiki help page, the two list pages and the home page.
[20:57] <len-dt> There is no local stuff on there yet though it would be easy to add. I don't know what xubuntu has for help. The last time I looked it seemed to point to the change logs for the programs listed... not very helpful. (the last version of xubuntu I had was 11.10 this may have changed)
[20:58] <ailo> len-dt: I think it's great with all the links. But my initial feeling opening the IRC link was that the user should perhaps be warned about the automatic connection, before proceeding
[20:58] <len-dt> I do know back when I was using KDE, their browser would take man:// kinds of urls. I don't know if there are other browsers that do so
[20:59] <len-dt> How if IRC different than a browser in that?
[20:59] <ailo> How is connecting with your ip and local username to a network you might not have any clue about different to opening a web page?
[20:59] <len-dt> Not that it matters to me, if you come up with a wrapper script I can point the desktop file at, I am fine with that too.
[21:00] <ailo> I would prefer that, as a user. It's not a big thing to add anyway
[21:00] <ailo> I already started working on it
[21:01] <len-dt> Ok, The command line for your script is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio/view/head:/usr/share/ubuntustudio/applications/ubuntustudio-xchat.desktop
[21:02] <len-dt> line 18 or so.
[21:02] <ailo> Thanks
[21:03] <len-dt> In your blurb, something about leaving a question and the app open long enough for someone to actually see it might be nice :-)
[21:04] <ailo> It will be a gui window with info and the customary ok and cancel buttons
[21:05] <len-dt> Ya, figured as much. Python then?
[21:05] <ailo> Yea
[21:06] <len-dt> \o/    Our new metas just got accepted. Tomorrow we should have photography and publishing apps.... and a bigger ISO
[21:06] <knome> hehe
[21:07] <len-dt> I think I will wait to do testing till then.


[16:37] <tyhicks> hello
[16:37] <tyhicks> #startmeeting
[16:37] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec 12 16:37:43 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:37] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:37] <tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:37] <tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:37] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:37] <tyhicks> Brian Morton provided debdiffs for precise-trusty for proftpd-dfsg (LP: #1462311)
[16:37] <tyhicks> Otto Kekäläinen (otto) provided debdiffs for yakkety-xenial for mariadb-10.0 (LP: #1638125)
[16:38] <tyhicks> Otto Kekäläinen (otto) provided debdiffs for trusty for mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1638125)
[16:38] <tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
[16:38] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:38] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead (we'll circle back to Jamie since he's in the middle of another conversation)
[16:38] <mdeslaur> I'm on triage
[16:39] <mdeslaur> but i'm only here today, I'm off for the holidays starting tomorrow
[16:39] <tyhicks> ratliff will take over triage after today
[16:39] <tyhicks> cve triage, that is
[16:39] <mdeslaur> I'm currently working on embargoed issues
[16:39] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[16:39] <tyhicks> sbeattie: you're up
[16:39] <sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
[16:39] <sbeattie> it's a short week for me, I'm off thursday and friday
[16:41] <sbeattie> I'll try to pick up an update this week, possibly one or more of the embargoed issue mdeslaur is working on
[16:41] <sbeattie> I have some apparmor work to do to get the release out
[16:41] <tyhicks> do you plan on getting the release out before you go on vacation?
[16:41] <sbeattie> I also have some misc kernel triage/tasks to look after.
[16:42] <sbeattie> tyhicks: I'll be back next week (for another short week)
[16:42] <tyhicks> oh
[16:42] <tyhicks> ok
[16:42] <sbeattie> but yes, planning to get the release out before the holidays
[16:42] <sbeattie> anyway, that'll likely consume my week.
[16:42] <sbeattie> tyhicks: on to you
[16:43] <tyhicks> I'm going to be taking over bug triage this week
[16:44] <tyhicks> I'm going to be verifying the trusty dbus and apparmor SRUs (LP: #1641243)
[16:44] <tyhicks> I hope to finish up the seccomp logging changes - I think I only need to finish adding tests to libseccomp
[16:45] <tyhicks> however, the kernel merge window just opened up so the kernel changes aren't likely to land until the next kernel
[16:45] <tyhicks> I am going to publish some embargoed issues that mdeslaur and others are working on
[16:45] <tyhicks> I have some sprint prep to do
[16:46] <tyhicks> and I still have a number of ecryptfs issues on my plate (haven't been able to work on them at all)
[16:46] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:46] <tyhicks> I don't see jj
[16:46] <tyhicks> sarnold_: go ahead
[16:46] <sarnold_> I'm on community this week
[16:47] <sarnold_> I seem to recall seeing some sponsored updates from last week, and I'm not sure what state my schroots or vms are in, so it' spossible much of this week will be yak shaving to do the updates
[16:47] <sarnold_> with what time is left I'll head on to swift-s3-something-mumble MIR
[16:48] <tyhicks> I got through all of the sponsorings (d2u and debdiff) last week
[16:48] <sarnold_> libav too?
[16:48] <sarnold_> or was that ffmpeg?
[16:48] <tyhicks> didn't see that one, so I guess I didn't get through them all
[16:48] <ratliff> ffmpeg
[16:49] <sarnold_> that's me done, jjohansen?
[16:49] <jjohansen> yep
[16:50] <jjohansen> Its a short week for me again, I friday off
[16:50] <jjohansen> I am following up with a couple of bugs that got fixed last week
[16:50] <jjohansen> I still need to look into the mount issue, that jdstrand encountered
[16:51] <jjohansen> and I need to work on gsettings
[16:51] <tyhicks> by following up, you mean SRU verification?
[16:52] <jjohansen> tyhicks: well, bugging people to ensure the patches worked for them, and sending them up to the kt
[16:52] <tyhicks> jjohansen: ^
[16:52] <tyhicks> ah
[16:52] <tyhicks> thanks
[16:53] <jjohansen> thats it for /me back to you tyhicks
[16:54] <tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
[16:54] <ratliff> I'm on bug triage today, CVE triage after today.
[16:55] <ratliff> I have some reviews pending to complete and I need to prepare the zesty ghostscript debdiff.
[16:55] <ratliff> back to you tyhicks
[16:56] <tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead
[16:56] <jdstrand> finialize dbus PR
[16:56] <jdstrand> finalize network-namespace-control PR
[16:56] <jdstrand> various PR reviews
[16:56] <jdstrand> various snappy personal reviews/design discussions
[16:56] <jdstrand> start working on seccomp arg filtering
[16:56] <jdstrand> last week I actually got to work on a few things, so I think dbus and network-namespace PRs may land soon
[16:57] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[16:57] <tyhicks> thanks jdstrand
[16:58] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:58] <tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:58] <tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:58] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-uuid.html
[16:58] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-qs.html
[16:58] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/transifex-client.html
[16:58] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/blender.html
[16:58] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:58] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pdns.html
[16:58] <tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:59] <tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ratliff: Thanks!
[16:59] <tyhicks> #endmeeting
[16:59] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec 12 16:59:34 2016 UTC.
[16:59] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-12-12-16.37.moin.txt
[16:59] <mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
[16:59] <sarnold_> thanks tyhicks!
[16:59] <sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
[17:00] <jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
[17:00] <ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
[18:54] <slashd> o/ rbasak fossfreedom
[18:54] <rbasak> o/
[18:55] <fossfreedom> hi!
[18:57] <sil2100> p/
[18:59] <micahg> o/
[19:00] <rbasak> Need one more.
[19:01] <fossfreedom> cross-fingers
[19:01] <slashd> cyphermox ping
[19:01] <BenC> o/
[19:01] <rbasak> o/
[19:02] <rbasak> Who's chairing this meeting?
[19:02] <rbasak> Any volunteers?
[19:02] <sil2100> I could
[19:02] <slashd> thanks guys for joining this special mtg
[19:02] <slashd> much appreciated
[19:03] <rbasak> sil2100: please do. Thanks!
[19:03] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[19:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec 12 19:03:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:03] <sil2100> Should we start off like any usual DMB meeting?
[19:03] <sil2100> I suppose so
[19:03] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:04] <sil2100> Action: rbasak to get mapreri's PPU additions done by the TB <- what's the status of this one?
[19:04] <rbasak> Let me check. One minute.
[19:05] <rbasak> bug 1643648 - still outstanding.
[19:05] <sil2100> Ok
[19:06] <sil2100> Action: rbasak to address GunnarHj's im-config yakkety question on the ML <- I have problems with memory recently, is this done?
[19:06] <rbasak> I made progress, just checking to see if it is done.
[19:08] <rbasak> This is still todo. Sorry!
[19:08] <rbasak> The TB have done their part, now I need to do mine.
[19:08] <sil2100> ACK, let's leave it around for the next meeting then
[19:08] <sil2100> Action: rbasak to address cpaelzer's dovecot-antispam ubuntu-server packageset request on the ML <- from what I see this is done I think, right?
[19:09] <rbasak> Done.
[19:09] <sil2100> Action: sil2100 to update the lubuntu packageset according to the current seed (carried over)  <- this is now also done for zesty, I might still back-port the same packageset changes to yakkety and xenial, but that's a different story I suppose
[19:09] <sil2100> The original request is done I would say
[19:10] <sil2100> #topic PPU Applications
[19:11] <sil2100> fossfreedom: hello!
[19:11] <fossfreedom> hi!
[19:11] <sil2100> fossfreedom: could you introduce yourself?
[19:11] <fossfreedom> My name is David Mohammed - also known as fossfreedom - and I am the project lead of Ubuntu Budgie (formerly budgie-remix).
[19:11] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fossfreedom/UbuntuBudgieDevApplication <- link to the application in mention
[19:11] <fossfreedom> Key responsibilities is the maintenance of our budgie packages -through the QA expected by the Ubuntu release team ...
[19:11] <fossfreedom> and meeting the release cadence - our packages are a mixture of Debian (sync with Ubuntu) and Ubuntu specific packages.
[19:12] <fossfreedom> Thanks in advance for considering my (our) application to be able to maintain our packages within Ubuntu.
[19:13] <BenC> With the amount of time you’ve been around the community, I’m a bit surprised to not see any endorsements.
[19:13] <sil2100> BenC: there are endorsements
[19:13] <sil2100> BenC: look at the bottom of the page, they're below the template
[19:13] <BenC> Ah, I see now.
[19:13] <rbasak> fossfreedom: this packageset doesn't yet exist, correct?
[19:13] <fossfreedom> correct
[19:13] <BenC> Thanks
[19:14] <rbasak> Do we know what packages would be in the set?
[19:14] <fossfreedom> listed at the top of the application
[19:14] <rbasak> Ah
[19:14] <rbasak> Thanks
[19:14] <fossfreedom> ooo - saw a mistake
[19:14] <fossfreedom> the indicator applet has been accepted in debian
[19:14] <fossfreedom> its no longer new
[19:15] <rbasak> OK
[19:15] <fossfreedom> and our ubuntu-budgie-meta has been sponsored
[19:17] <rbasak> Which of these packages are Ubuntu-only?
[19:17] <fossfreedom> just a sec
[19:17] <rbasak> And are there any packages here that are derived from Debian and that you don't maintain in Debian?
[19:18] <fossfreedom> budgie-desktop-environment, budgie-artwork, budgie-welcome, budgie-wallpapers, ubuntu-budgie-meta
[19:19] <fossfreedom> All others listed are our packages that have been sponsored and accepted in debian
[19:20] <rbasak> So to make sure I haven't misunderstood, the answer to my Debian maintenance question is "no"?
[19:21] <fossfreedom> If I've understood the question - no derived debian packages - they are either in debian and sync'd or are ubuntu specific
[19:21] <sil2100> fossfreedom: a standard question from me - are you aware of how proposed migration works in Ubuntu?
[19:22] <fossfreedom> before the debian freeze date - yes sponsored, and auto sync'd I believe.
[19:22] <rbasak> fossfreedom: no, I mean: apart from Ubuntu specific packages, is there any package in your requested list that you *do not* maintain in Debian?
[19:23] <fossfreedom> no.
[19:23] <rbasak> Right, that answers my question - thanks :)
[19:23] <fossfreedom> sure.  sorry about that!
[19:24] <rbasak> fossfreedom: for the packages in Debian, what sort of uploads do you expect will be necessary in Ubuntu?
[19:25] <fossfreedom> Intend to maintain the debian specific packages via debian.  Only after the various freeze dates would I want to look at critical and stability fixes specific to ubuntu coming from upstream
[19:26] <rbasak> OK. And if we do grant you upload access today, under what circumstances must you seek approval before uploading to Ubuntu?
[19:26] <rbasak> OK. And if we do grant you upload access today, under what circumstances must you seek approval _anyway_ before uploading to Ubuntu?
[19:27] <sil2100> fossfreedom: (please also note my question above ^ after answering rbasak)
[19:27] <fossfreedom> not sure I understand - if I have doubts - will ask via ubuntu-motu
[19:28] <rbasak> fossfreedom: under what release cycle freeze conditions must you seek approval before uploading, and from whom?
[19:28] <fossfreedom> k - think you are referring to feature freeze?
[19:29] <fossfreedom> release managers - but not sure who they are - will need to ask
[19:30] <rbasak> There are other freezes too, but let's start with feature freeze.
[19:30] <fossfreedom> sil2100 - are you referring to sending first to proposed.  testing, confirming before moving to universe?
[19:30] <rbasak> What can you upload when only feature freeze is in effect, and what can you not upload during the same time?
[19:31] <fossfreedom> basically my understanding is concentrate on bugs and stability issues.
[19:31] <fossfreedom> dont introduce new features
[19:31] <fossfreedom> especially dont break libraries - api's etc.
[19:31] <sil2100> fossfreedom: let's say there's such a situation: you upload your package to ubuntu, the package goes to, let's say, zesty-proposed and stays there for over a week - what would you do? Is this a normal situation?
[19:32] <fossfreedom> in that circumstance I would hop into ubuntu-motu and seek guidance.
[19:32] <fossfreedom> no - before freeze that would be most unexpected I noticed
[19:33] <fossfreedom> after freeze - depends on the issue at hand.
[19:34] <rbasak> depends> can you be more specific?
[19:34] <sil2100> fossfreedom: ok, I guess that's a good start - do you know http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html and update_output.txt ?
[19:35] <fossfreedom> lets say the problem at hand is complicated - involving more than one package - possibly concerning a package that we depend upon but is not ours.  Yes - in that example, I would expect things will take longer to check and double check
[19:35] <sil2100> In case you didn't, it's a good thing to bookmark and to look at once you see your package being stuck in -proposed
[19:36]  * cyphermox is around
[19:36] <rbasak> cyphermox: o/
[19:36] <sil2100> Anyway, any other questions to fossfreedom ?
[19:36] <fossfreedom> noted . thanks for the link
[19:36] <micahg> fossfreedom: why did you overwrite the changelog when you uploaded a new version? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/296645594/ubuntu-budgie-meta_0.0.1_0.1.diff.gz
[19:37] <fossfreedom> that was a bit of confusion .  Apparently daniel uploaded but myself and mapreri didnt know - maprari also sponsored and uploaded over the top
[19:39] <rbasak> I think I'm done with questions, thanks.
[19:40] <cyphermox> we normally deal with this in two steps, first packageset creation, then joining the packageset.
[19:40] <cyphermox> or just PPU
[19:41] <rbasak> IMHO, we should vote on granting fossfreedom upload rights first, and then think about what to do wrt. packagesets/PPU. Because if we don't move to grant fossfreedom upload rights, then the packageset discussion is pointless.
[19:42]  * BenC agrees
[19:42] <rbasak> Presumably what we'd give fossfreedom upload rights to (whether via a packageset or PPU) is uncontroversial?
[19:42] <sil2100> Agreed
[19:42] <cyphermox> well, my vote would be based on what the packageset is, TBH
[19:42] <micahg> yeah, usually packageset comes first
[19:42] <micahg> but we can table the actions on creation if no one is granted rights
[19:42] <rbasak> OK
[19:42] <rbasak> Whatever sil2100 wants to do I guess, as he's chairing!
[19:43] <sil2100> Since we already did review the applicant and a 'recommended' set of packages for the packageset has been proposed, I would say we should vote basing on the current knowledge
[19:44] <cyphermox> what does that mean?
[19:44] <sil2100> I mean that we should vote as if the packageset in mention had the packages as proposed in the application
[19:45] <sil2100> And in case the packageset ends up different, we can then bring this up on the meeting
[19:45] <micahg> is that list actually defined?
[19:45] <micahg> ah, yeah, I see it now
[19:45] <sil2100> budgie-desktop, budgie-desktop-environment, budgie-artwork, budgie-welcome, budgie-wallpapers, arc-theme, moka-icon-theme, faba-icon-theme, rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar, budgie-indicator-applet
[19:46] <fossfreedom> + ubuntu-budgie-meta
[19:47] <sil2100> cyphermox: would you be fine with this?
[19:47] <cyphermox> just a second, almost done looking this over
[19:47] <sil2100> I don't want to over-extend the meeting as we still have another applicant for today
[19:47] <sil2100> Ok, thanks
[19:50] <cyphermox> yeah ok to vote
[19:50] <sil2100> #vote for David Mohammed to get upload rights for the budgie packageset
[19:50] <meetingology> Please vote on: for David Mohammed to get upload rights for the budgie packageset
[19:50] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:52] <rbasak> -1
[19:52] <meetingology> -1 received from rbasak
[19:53] <BenC> +1
[19:53] <meetingology> +1 received from BenC
[19:54] <micahg> +0, great start, great job getting packages into Debian, would like to see a little more experience with the packages
[19:54] <meetingology> +0, great start, great job getting packages into Debian, would like to see a little more experience with the packages received from micahg
[19:54] <cyphermox> we never defined what the packageset was yet though
[19:55] <micahg> sil2100 listed the packages before the vote, but you are correct, that it's not official
[19:55] <micahg> *officially listed in the vote
[19:56] <cyphermox> +1 there is evidence of involvement, but I can't see much in terms of uploads (though some are obviosly maintained in Debian directly). On the basis that this is for a new flavor and that the risk is low (leaf packages specific to the flavor) I'm inclined to acquiesce.
[19:56] <meetingology> +1 there is evidence of involvement, but I can't see much in terms of uploads (though some are obviosly maintained in Debian directly). On the basis that this is for a new flavor and that the risk is low (leaf packages specific to the flavor) I'm inclined to acquiesce. received from cyphermox
[19:57] <cyphermox> I would strongly strongly suggest pinging people on IRC when you need sponsoring. I know I'm always happy to sponsor packages and give review, and later add testimonial to applications
[19:59] <fossfreedom> k - sure - Jeremy has done the vast majority of uploads and sponsoring for the team
[19:59] <cyphermox> who are the team?
[19:59] <fossfreedom> I myself do the packaging - the link to the team is here https://budgie-remix.org/our-team/
[20:03] <sil2100> +1 conditionally from me as this is a new flavor and things need to get going, assuming the packageset stays as mentioned above - but PLEASE always ask more experienced sponsors while in doubt
[20:03] <meetingology> +1 conditionally from me as this is a new flavor and things need to get going, assuming the packageset stays as mentioned above - but PLEASE always ask more experienced sponsors while in doubt received from sil2100
[20:03] <fossfreedom> fully agree with you sil2100
[20:04] <sil2100> Ok, I guess that's everyone present
[20:04] <sil2100> #endvote
[20:04] <meetingology> Voting ended on: for David Mohammed to get upload rights for the budgie packageset
[20:04] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
[20:04] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:04] <rbasak> So I think that's not quorate?
[20:04] <sil2100> Yeah, I think it isn't
[20:05] <micahg> right
[20:05] <sil2100> So we'll have to move it to the mailing list
[20:05] <rbasak> fossfreedom: I wrote up my reasons for my -1 ready to paste. I'll do that now.
[20:05] <rbasak> This was not an easy decision, as you can probably tell from the votes! I
[20:05] <rbasak> really appreciate your contributions to Ubuntu, and in maintaining Ubuntu
[20:05] <rbasak> Budgie for us. Personally, I'd be +1 in granting you Ubuntu Contributing
[20:05] <rbasak> Developer status, though that would require a further formal DMB vote.
[20:05] <rbasak> However, I reget that I'm not satisfied with your understanding of the Ubuntu release process. I think this is important, particularly for a flavour lead.
[20:05] <rbasak> For example, the key differentiation for uploading during feature freeze is the simple criteron of whether the upload incorporates just bugfixes or feature changes, but you seemed to be unable to state this.
[20:05] <cyphermox> it's most definitely not a motion carried outcome; as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase
[20:05] <rbasak> I am satisfied with the other aspects of your application.
[20:06] <sil2100> fossfreedom: so for now your application is still being processed
[20:06] <sil2100> fossfreedom: since you didn't get the required number of votes we'll contintue this through the ML to get the remaining DMB memebers votes
[20:06] <fossfreedom> thanks - will continue normally motu sponsoring.  We have a number of updates to make.  thanks all for your time.
[20:07] <rbasak> fossfreedom: I'm sorry we couldn't decide in this meeting. We do all appreciate your contributions and hope you will continue regardless of the outcome here. Despite our individual opinions I'm sure we all want to get you to the stage that we're unamimously happy to grant you upload access.
[20:07] <sil2100> Let me put an action item for this
[20:07] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to handle fossfreedom's application further through e-mail
[20:07] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to handle fossfreedom's application further through e-mail
[20:08] <sil2100> Ok, let's move on!
[20:08] <rbasak> Does everyone have time to consider slashd's application? I do, but I appreciate we're 70 minutes in.
[20:08] <sil2100> BenC, cyphermox, slashd, micahg - you all have time for another application still?
[20:08] <cyphermox> yep
[20:09] <BenC> Yeah
[20:09] <micahg> I have a call in 20 min, but we can try
[20:09] <sil2100> #topic MOTU Applications
[20:09] <sil2100> slashd: hello! You still around? Could you please introduce yourself?
[20:09] <slashd> I'm a Software Engineer in the Support Sustaining Engineering Group within Canonical helping in driving Canonical customer and community bugs into resolution by troubleshooting, fixing bugs, providing guidance & workarounds, for different areas of expertise which may cover areas such as: kernel/usermode, drivers, virtualization, network, cloud, storage, ... [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/MOTU] [https://launchpad.net/~slas
[20:09] <slashd> hd] Since I first started contributing I think I've always been acting as a good team player, doing updates of high quality with as much details as I could provide, never been afraid to ask questions when in doubt and that I have the detective skills that this role requires.
[20:09] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/MOTU <- application
[20:12] <sil2100> slashd: first question: I noticed that m_deslaur mentioned required improvement in better formatted changelogs - could you elaborate what he could have had in mind?
[20:13] <slashd> sil2100, I think he was refering to the fact, my first changelog were not as descriptive as he wanted
[20:13] <slashd> sil2100, I think I fix that
[20:14] <slashd> I really pay attention to experience ppl feedbacks, to always improve myself
[20:15] <rbasak> slashd: are you expecting to do many uploads to universe?
[20:16] <rbasak> slashd: and what have you uploaded that is or was in universe?
[20:17] <slashd> rbasak, as you can see I'm not dedicated to a specific package or pkgset mostly due to the nature of my work at Canonical where I have to fix whaterver is broken (main, universe, ...) so I expect to do upload of course when a problem arise and also sponsor other ppl debdiff to help the community, ....
[20:18] <sil2100> slashd: what would be the primary reason for you to apply for MOTU?
[20:18] <slashd> rbasak, libpam-sshauth AFAI remember
[20:19] <slashd> sil2100, I want to involve myself more in Ubuntu development, helping fixing issue, help other in sponsoring debdiff, ...
[20:20] <cyphermox> slashd: the point of rbasak's question is that we give upload rights after proof of involvement, rather than "because I would like to X"
[20:21] <slashd> cyphermox, right, I agree that most of my work has been done for main pkg
[20:22] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[20:22] <rbasak> FTR, I have worked with slashd on SRUs.
[20:22] <slashd> rbasak, cyphermox, I simply think that being MOTU is a good step toward gaining upload experiences ..... and eventually will earn some strip to help even more in other areas
[20:23] <rbasak> AIUI, that's the main outcome of his work at Canonical, since from my perspective at least he mainly seems to handle requests that come from Canonical customers, and they generally and understandably tend to be about stable releases.
[20:23] <cyphermox> yep
[20:23] <rbasak> From that perspective, I'd like to see slashd being able to upload SRUs directly.
[20:23] <cyphermox> well, he still won't, for the most part
[20:24] <micahg> slashd: well, as cyphermox mentioned, we usually want the experience before the upload rights
[20:24] <rbasak> I'm not sure if MOTU is the right path for that, unless slashd is actually making significant contributions to universe, or is being blocked from doing so. I don't think he is.
[20:24] <rbasak> It's a new thing I think that Canonical STS employees are contributing to Ubuntu in this way.
[20:24] <rbasak> I can only recall caribou as the other person doing this.
[20:24] <rbasak> So perhaps this is something the DMB needs to tackle.
[20:24] <cyphermox> and to illustrate my point, " being MOTU is a good step toward gaining upload experiences" is precisely what we don't want, and rather give MOTU based on having seen enough evidence that someone knows what they're doing enough to not break universe
[20:24] <slashd> rbasak for now there is only caribou yes
[20:25] <rbasak> I don't think it's appropriate to force Canonical STS employees contribution to Ubuntu SRUs in main to have to make unrelated contributions to MOTU first as a path to getting upload access to the stuff they're actually helping with.
[20:25] <rbasak> Nor do I think it's appropriate to grant MOTU to people not actually contributing to universe.
[20:26] <sil2100> Ok, should we maybe start the vote? Or are there any questions to slashd before we continue?
[20:26] <rbasak> So, I'm -1 on giving slashd MOTU, but I think it's an action item for the DMB to work out how to fix this so that there's a direct way for slashd and his colleagues to get upload access to do SRUs in main.
[20:26] <micahg> rbasak: SRUs go into a queue anyways, it doesn't help so much to have "upload rights" for SRUs unless there were a high volume, and I don't think we're seeing that
[20:26] <cyphermox> there isn't really a way to do that aside from being able to upload in main though
[20:27] <slashd> rbasak, I know another sts memeber is about to apply for coredev in Jan so this point I think would be nice to be addressed
[20:27] <micahg> right, but that could be set per-series if need be
[20:27] <cyphermox> ie. SRUs are just an upload, the difference of being stuck in the unapproved queue is just because of the state of the release
[20:28] <cyphermox> well, i suppose it could be, but that wouldn't be up to the DMB to statute on.
[20:28] <rbasak> Yeah, we could tell Launchpad to allow some new ~ubuntu-sru-uploaders team access to upload to stables but not development.
[20:28] <rbasak> I believe it would be within the DMB's remit to set this up if we decided it is appropriate.
[20:29] <cyphermox> I don't think deciding whether it's appropriate is DMB-level
[20:29] <sil2100> Do we want an action item for this?
[20:29] <rbasak> And then slashd and his colleagues would have a clear path forward, whether or not you think slashd himself has enough of a track record right now.
[20:29] <sil2100> e.g. for us to remember this for the next meetings?
[20:29] <rbasak> I'll happily take an action to take it to the list.
[20:29] <rbasak> cyphermox: so we disagree, which is fine. How about: after I take this to the ML, you ask the TB to decide whether it is within our remit?
[20:30] <cyphermox> sure. whatever :)
[20:30] <sil2100> #action rbasak to start a discussion on the ML regarding the possibility of setting up a specialized team with access to upload packages to stable releases only
[20:30] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to start a discussion on the ML regarding the possibility of setting up a specialized team with access to upload packages to stable releases only
[20:30] <sil2100> Phew, hope this more or less outlines it
[20:30] <sil2100> Anyway, let's head for the vote
[20:30] <rbasak> slashd: would you like us to proceed to vote on MOTU, or would you like to withdraw that pending the outcome of my action?
[20:30] <cyphermox> my point is it's a rather large exception and we don't create the packageset ourselves
[20:30] <micahg> I see an average of 3 uploads a month here, I'm not sure the volume warrants special consideration
[20:31] <rbasak> micahg: understood. We can discuss that on the ML. I'm just concerned that we're stifling progress by not having this path, even if it is discussed and leads to "no action without more volume".
[20:31] <slashd> rbasak, let's see the outcome of you action I think, can you put me on CC on this ?
[20:31] <rbasak> slashd: I really don't mind whether you want the vote or not. Up to you.
[20:32] <rbasak> CC> sure.
[20:32] <rbasak> OK. So are we done with slashd's application for now then?
[20:32] <slashd> brookswarner, chiluk, interesting discussion here for us ^^
[20:32] <sil2100> Ok, so if I understand that: no vote today on this?
[20:32] <rbasak> That's my understanding, yes.
[20:33] <slashd> thanks for your time guys, I think we can go ahead with rbasak action item, and then depending on the result will see what is next
[20:33] <sil2100> Ok then
[20:34] <sil2100> #topic Any other business
[20:34] <sil2100> I suppose none here as we're far over our schedule
[20:34] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[20:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec 12 20:34:28 2016 UTC.
[20:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-12-12-19.03.moin.txt
[20:34] <sil2100> Phew, thanks everyone! Sorry for this meeting being a bit rough
[20:35] <rbasak> sil2100: thank you for chairing!
[20:35] <fossfreedom> sigh - thanks for your time sil2100 - much appreciated.
[20:35] <rbasak> And thank you to fossfreedom and slashd for your patience.
[20:35] <fossfreedom> cheers rbasak.
[20:35] <slashd> rbasak, tks for making this mtg happen and for taking ownership on this action
[20:36] <fossfreedom> Can I ask a question please rbasak?
[20:38] <sil2100> I'll send out the e-mail with the votes for fossfreedom later today
[20:38] <sil2100> Should I send it to devel-permissions@ as well, or just to fossfreedom + DMB members?
[20:38] <sil2100> I suppose this should be public, right?
[20:40] <rbasak> fossfreedom: sure. If it's a general Ubuntu development/process question it should probably be in #ubuntu-devel.
[20:40] <rbasak> (or #ubuntu-motu, etc)
[20:41] <rbasak> sil2100: yes, public. The meeting was already public, as is fossfreedom's application :)
[20:41] <rbasak> sil2100: so devel-permissions@ I think.
[20:41] <fossfreedom> question of process for DMB
[20:41] <rbasak> fossfreedom: sure, go ahead.
[20:41] <fossfreedom> So the result effectively puts Ubuntu Budgie progress on hold whilst the mailing list member consider?
[20:41] <fossfreedom> members
[20:42] <rbasak> fossfreedom: no, not at all. You should still be able to get any sponsored uploads you need.
[20:42] <rbasak> fossfreedom: if finding a sponsor becomes a problem for you, please email the ubuntu-devel@ list asking for sponsorship.
[20:43] <fossfreedom> k - I have made a pull request against lp:ubuntu-cdimage - just wondering if this stops this because there is no formal packageset
[20:43] <rbasak> fossfreedom: effectively, all sponsorship means is "code review required from an approved reviewer".
[20:43] <rbasak> fossfreedom: not having direct access to upload should never stop any kind of progress apart from the delay/inconvenience in finding someone who can.
[20:44] <rbasak> fossfreedom: all Ubuntu core devs can do everything the DMB can grant.
[20:44] <fossfreedom> ah - so just need to be patient then whoever processes lp:ubuntu-cdimage issues and requests?
[20:45] <rbasak> fossfreedom: some chasing may be required. If so, please ask on IRC in #ubuntu-devel or on the ubuntu-devel@ list.
[20:45] <rbasak> fossfreedom: especially if the request is not in the sponsorship queue at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
[20:47] <fossfreedom> ok - thanks for the hint.  I'll add the ubuntu-sponsor tag for the bug-report.  Also will seek guidance in ubuntu-devel
[20:47] <rbasak> fossfreedom: if you want to continue this discussion, let's move to #ubuntu-devel. This isn't particular DMB-specific - anyone can answer.
[20:47] <rbasak> And lurkers may decide to review and sponsor your merge proposal too :)
[20:47] <fossfreedom> will do!
[20:47] <fossfreedom> cheers
[21:13] <chiluk> sil2100, rbasak, cyphermox, sorry to re-open this, as I'll be applying for coredev come january. One observation I'd like to make though is that process has always been to fix development releases prior to fixing released series. as such members of the STS team wouldn't gain much by being part of a new ~ubuntu-sru-uploaders team, as we'd still have to wait on uploading to devel.
[21:15] <chiluk> the only time it would help is when the fix is already in one of the newer serie's..
[21:18] <rbasak> chiluk: good point.
[21:19] <chiluk> rbasak: did this discussion move somewhere else?
[21:19] <rbasak> No, it ended here. I have an action to take it to the ML.
[21:20] <chiluk> rbasak, and if it wasn't completely clear, our team has no desire to circumvent the SRU process, and think that it's healthy to require at least one additional review *(from ubuntu-sru team), after uploading.
[21:20] <rbasak> chiluk: I didn't think any different :)
[21:21] <chiluk> ok "ubuntu-sru-uploaders" is slightly ambiguous naming.
[21:21] <chiluk> rbasak^^
[21:21] <rbasak> chiluk: what I was suggesting is that if there's a thing the DMB can grant such that you can upload SRUs, then that would get through the sponsorship requirement but not ~ubuntu-sru.
[21:21] <chiluk> yeah that would be helpful.
[21:22] <chiluk> we'll abide by what the dmb, and Technical Review board deems proper.


[10:09] <flexiondotorg> balloons, dholbach I've got a couple of questions about my UOS session later.
[10:10] <flexiondotorg> I did UOS 15.05 and had some difficulty linking up with Hangouts.
[10:10] <flexiondotorg> Can one of you help with that?
[10:11] <dholbach> flexiondotorg, balloons and davidcalle should be around to help
[10:12] <flexiondotorg> What nearer the time?
[10:12] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions is what it should take to set it up
[10:12] <dholbach> yep
[10:12] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, Thanks.
[10:12] <dholbach> if you can't get the session set up, they'll help you
[13:52] <bzoltan_> Hello all
[13:58] <balloons> howdy
[14:01] <James_Mulholland> Hi balloons!
[14:02] <James_Mulholland> Hi all
[14:02] <ahayzen> o/
[14:03] <balloons> hello!
[14:03] <zbenjamin> hi all
[14:03] <core_apps_police> hi everyone !
[14:03] <balloons> Any questions you have, feel free to leave them here and I'll ask them to the presenters :-)
[14:04] <balloons> core_apps_police, your name is so fun. I love it
[14:04] <bzoltan_> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/tools-development
[14:05] <core_apps_police> QUESTION: What is happening with the design editor? I'm learning to code, and that feature was helping a lot..
[14:07] <balloons> stuart gets a shoutout . . .
[14:08] <core_apps_police> ehehe
[14:09] <balloons> live demos ALWAYS go well ;p
[14:09] <ahayzen> hah
[14:09] <guy200> LOL
[14:10] <ahayzen> QUESTION: What happened to Akiva's autopilot plugin for the SDK, is that still WIP ?
[14:11] <ahayzen> QUESTION: Which build process is now 'recommended' cmake, qmake, qmlproject etc ?
[14:12] <core_apps_police> I think qmake..
[14:12] <core_apps_police> but is just my opinion :p
[14:13] <balloons> I'll ask everyone's questions after the demo, so hang tight for a few
[14:13] <ahayzen> hehe yeah most of the coreapps moved to cmake ages ago, i've used qmake on a few others
[14:13] <ahayzen> i'm sure balloons remembers the transition to cmake :')
[14:15] <bzoltan_> ahayzen: I will answer the second question in a sec
[14:15] <ahayzen> oh sweet :-)
[14:15] <balloons> bzoltan_, if you look in the pad, you'll see all the questions that have been asked thus far
[14:15] <bzoltan_> balloons:  ohh.. nice
[14:15] <balloons> should you want to answer them sooner ;-0
[14:16]  * ahayzen assumes there is an easy way to run QMLTestrunner from inside QtC ...
[14:19] <balloons> anymore questions? now's the time to ask
[14:20] <ahayzen> QUESTION: Is there ETA on convergence features like scrollbars, right click menus, global menu bar support etc appearing in the SDK ?
[14:22] <mhall119> QUESTION: how will MainView work in a world where apps can have multiple windows? Will MainView still be the root component for apps, or will an app be able to have more than one MainView, each in it's own window?
[14:23] <ahayzen> mhall119, i had a Window { MainView {} } before that then spawned another Window from a Loader {} inside that
[14:24] <ahayzen> mhall119, i wonder what we would 'expect' to happen if you tried to open another Window when on a mobile device though ?
[14:27] <mhall119> ahayzen: mzanetti mentioned design discussions about that yesterday
[14:27] <ahayzen> \o/
[14:28] <mhall119> is ActionBar in 1.3 or coming in 1.4?
[14:28] <zsombi> mhall119: MainView will be the main view of the apps, as its name states. Additional windows will have other root components, perhaps Window will be good enough or we'll need a dedicated one to show a modal window
[14:29] <zsombi> mhall119: ActionBar is 1.3 All you see presented by kalikiana is 1.3
[14:29] <zsombi> mhall119: remember, 1.3 API is not frozen yet
[14:29] <mhall119> zsombi: um, it's not?
[14:30] <ahayzen> zsombi, there is a modality property :-) http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtquick-window-window.html#modality-prop
[14:30] <zsombi> ahayzen: then once Mir has it, we can use that :)
[14:30] <ahayzen> :-)
[14:30] <mhall119> zsombi: bzoltan_: we need to have a discussion about when/why/how APIs get frozen
[14:30] <bzoltan_> mhall119:  no it is not
[14:31] <bzoltan_> mhall119:  have you read my mail about this on the ML?
[14:31] <mhall119> bzoltan_: which ML?
[14:31] <balloons> QUESTION: What keyboard support exists right now? Can I tab between text fields, ctrl+a to select all text, etc?
[14:31] <balloons> arrow keys to switch between things
[14:31] <bzoltan_> mhall119: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg16138.html
[14:32] <zsombi> balloons: yes
[14:32] <zsombi> balloons: arrow kesy never switch between things :)
[14:33] <Sid_Payton> QUESTION: About a year ago a new text selection function for better and easier textselection was discussed and postponed.  Is it back  on the plate? Still a bit hard to select text on Ubuntu Touch
[14:38] <mhall119> bzoltan_: thanks, reading those emails makes sense
[14:38] <bzoltan_> mhall119:  I was asked the same (very valid) qustions that I had to send that mail... but of course we need to talk about it.
[14:40] <balloons> QUESTION: Can you define seperate options for similar actions (For instance the swiping on phone and right clicking on desktop). Do these need to perform the same code or can they be different?
[14:40] <balloons> I hope that question makes sense
[14:41] <mhall119> QUESTION: Bottom edge on desktops isn't nearly as usable as on a device, are there any designs yet for how that will converge?
[14:42] <mhall119> QUESTION: Can we have an API to change the icon color for header/actionbar actions? My use case is a "mail" icon that I want to change color when there are new messages, currently I have to change the icon source
[14:45] <ahayzen> QUESTION: What has happened to the HUD? Maybe would could integrate Mycroft with the HUD ?
[14:46] <mhall119> ahayzen: that's probably not a question for the SDK team, more for design and Unity devs
[14:46] <ahayzen> hehe, is it on the sdk teams radar though ;-)
[14:46] <balloons> No harm in planting the seed in someone's mind by asking eh?
[14:47] <ahayzen> exactly ;-)
[14:47] <mhall119> QUESTION: The webbrowser app's convergence tabs work really well, can we bring that into the UITK for other apps to use?
[14:49] <mhall119> yay designers! \o/
[14:49] <James_Mulholland> mhall119 - Yes, adding a convergent tabs component is in the plan
[14:49] <mhall119> thanks James_Mulholland
[14:50] <mhall119> the UITK is growing up so fast :)
[14:50] <ahayzen> \o/
[14:50] <James_Mulholland> mhall119 - no probs, I'm the one working on that so ping me if you have any subsequent questions! :)
[14:51] <roadmr> QUESTION: any suggested workarounds for the case where I'm using an encrypted home? (bug 1427264). Could the SDK at least detect this situation so it doesn't explode?
[14:51] <mhall119> James_Mulholland: my questions will be more for those implementing it I think
[14:51] <mhall119> but thanks
[14:51] <mhall119> did somebody ask about Menus yet?
[14:52] <ahayzen> mhall119, what type of menus?
[14:52] <zbenjamin> kalikiana: didn't you use a encrypted home? How did you fix it?`
[14:52] <mhall119> like app/window menus
[14:52] <faenil> ahayzen: I'm currently working on the Scrollbar implementation, feel free to contact me if you have additional questions
[14:52] <kalikiana> I do. I'll check, there's something in my fstab I think
[14:52] <ahayzen> faenil, oh cool :-) will that be automatically added to Flickable's ?
[14:52] <zsombi> mhall119: yes, I just said, there will be menus, context menus and app menus as well, but context menus have higher priority
[14:52] <James_Mulholland> And I'm working on Menus (contextual, app menus. etc)
[14:52] <James_Mulholland> so ping me after the session if you like!
[14:52] <mhall119> thanks zsombi, bzoltan_, kalikiana, zbenjamin, Femma_A and James_Mulholland
[14:53] <roadmr> thanks for the session!
[14:53] <ahayzen> thanks guys :-)
[14:53] <faenil> Flickable is a QtQuick component, so we can't change that to be specific to our UI
[14:53] <mhall119> James_Mulholland: any chance you're working on the HUD redesign too? :)
[14:53] <ahayzen> faenil, ah damn, but the UbuntuListView etc right ?
[14:53] <faenil> ahayzen: the current plan is to add ScrollView which will provide the scrollbars, and you just add the Flickable as ScrollView's child
[14:53] <ahayzen> faenil, ah awesome :-)
[14:53] <faenil> :)
[14:54] <roadmr> balloons: thanks :D :D
[14:54] <James_Mulholland> Thanks all!
[14:54] <ahayzen> faenil, i think Tim said you had been working on scrolling the head sections ?
[14:54] <faenil> ahayzen: yes, I did a prototype a few months ago, it's public. But timp is in charge of the productized version
[14:54] <James_Mulholland> mhall119 - not working on HUD Im afraid, you can check with Femma regarding current plans for UITK components though
[14:55] <ahayzen> faenil, ah cool, i wonder if it would fix this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1489591
[14:55] <kalikiana> roadmr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1427264/comments/15
[14:55] <mhall119> James_Mulholland: do you know who is working on the HUD designs, or who was working on them last?
[14:56] <faenil> ahayzen: it surely should :)
[14:56]  * flexiondotorg is ready, just needs some Hangout help :-)
[14:56] <ahayzen> faenil, :-)
[14:56] <roadmr> kalikiana: thanks, I'll try that!
[14:57] <flexiondotorg> balloons, Will you be setting up the Hangout on Air?
[14:58] <balloons> flexiondotorg, I cannot set this one up, I'm in another
[14:58] <balloons> However, I will get someone to help
[14:58] <flexiondotorg> balloons, Thanks.
[14:59] <flexiondotorg> nadrimajstor, Hi :-)
[14:59] <flexiondotorg> frecel, Hello :-)
[14:59] <nadrimajstor> o/
[15:01] <popey> jose is on his way
[15:01] <flexiondotorg> popey, Thanks.
[15:02] <jose> flexiondotorg: ping, mind a quick PM?
[15:02] <flexiondotorg> Sure
[15:05] <_Ridgewing> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22575/ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker/
[15:05] <_Ridgewing> I can see you .. now.
[15:05] <frecel> I can hear you
[15:05] <bbrawner> I can hear and see you
[15:05] <frecel> and see you
[15:06] <RPiAwesomeness> O_O Martin does not look like I had imagined him from the Ubuntu podcast
[15:06] <AdamRPCS> I can see but not hear
[15:06] <_Ridgewing> I can see the slides, and hear you.
[15:07] <bbrawner> I can see the slides
[15:07] <RPiAwesomeness> Same
[15:07] <nadrimajstor> He can clearly speaks with authority... He got glasses :D
[15:07] <_Ridgewing> Haha ha .
[15:08] <AdamRPCS> I can see and hear now
[15:10] <justsomeone> QUESTION: would unity 8 work?
[15:11] <BrianLinuxing2> Coming late to the session.
[15:11] <BrianLinuxing2> Question: what approx. time for an install?
[15:17] <ali1234> hi
[15:19] <BrianLinuxing2> thank you, a good answer.
[15:27] <ali1234> ded
[15:27] <_Ridgewing> Martin, lost audio
[15:27] <ali1234> _Ridgewing: questions better on irc than etherpad
[15:27] <_Ridgewing> maybe me thou.
[15:28] <ali1234> no it's dead for me too
[15:28] <_Ridgewing> ok
[15:28] <r0m1> Dead here too
[15:28] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: we can't hear you
[15:28] <flexiondotorg> Can anyobne here?
[15:28] <BrianLinuxing2> just dropped too, whilst I was enjoying it!
[15:28] <ali1234> last thing i heard was when you started talking about dd'ing the image
[15:29] <BrianLinuxing2> me too
[15:29] <_Ridgewing> REFRESH THE PAGE should work ...
[15:29] <ali1234> no it just plays the last 10 seconds when i refresh
[15:29] <_Ridgewing> ok
[15:29] <flexiondotorg> All good?
[15:29] <flexiondotorg> Hear me?
[15:29] <flexiondotorg> See me?
[15:29] <_Ridgewing> no sound.
[15:29] <ali1234> "we create a big file either 4G 8 G or 16G"
[15:29] <_Ridgewing> No sound or video.
[15:30] <justsomeone> meh :/
[15:30] <justsomeone> what happened?
[15:30] <ali1234> technical difficulties
[15:30] <flexiondotorg> I'm being told that some people can hear me.
[15:30] <flexiondotorg> So, those that can't, please refresh.
[15:30] <BrianLinuxing2> It is a very polished presentation, which falters as he's explaining the DD part
[15:30] <nadrimajstor> He is not using openwrt firmware :D
[15:31] <ali1234> i refreshed like 10 times
[15:31] <flexiondotorg> Who here can hear me?
[15:31] <bbrawner> I'm not sure if it's my internet or not but I'm stuck on a loading screen
[15:31] <BrianLinuxing2> Refresh didn't work for me, but will do it on the YouTube channel again.
[15:31] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: Are you aware of this campaign & Did you collaborate ? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu#/
[15:32] <RemixDave> Frozen at DD here.
[15:32] <justsomeoneagain> still doesn't work ...
[15:32] <justsomeoneagain> neither on youtube nor here :(
[15:32] <bbrawner> I refreshed and it's just loading
[15:32] <flexiondotorg> Sorry some of you have lost the connection.
[15:32] <jose> folks, there's some delay on youtube, you can blame google for that
[15:32] <justsomeoneagain> however, carry on, will watch it late
[15:32] <justsomeoneagain> *r
[15:32] <r0m1> Refreshed, still stuck (same thing on the Youtube page)
[15:32]  * _Ridgewing clicks .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9BM20J_D0Y     to no avail.
[15:32] <flexiondotorg> The organiser says the stream is still live.
[15:32] <flexiondotorg> I'll press and come to IRc for questions is a few mins.
[15:32] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: What distro are you using ?
[15:33] <ali1234> good cos i have lots of questions
[15:34] <RPiAwesomeness> This will be available afterwards on YT, correct?
[15:34] <ali1234> theoretically
[15:34] <ali1234> it might just cut out at the same place though so who knows
[15:34] <RPiAwesomeness> Bothersome thing won't load for me :(
[15:34] <RPiAwesomeness> Oh, so it's cutting out for you too?
[15:34] <ali1234> for everyone here
[15:35] <ali1234> nobody has spoken up and said it works for them yet
[15:35] <frecel> We basically create a big file...
[15:35] <bbrawner> RPiAwesomeness: https://www.youtube.com/user/UbuntuOnAir/videos
[15:35] <RPiAwesomeness> Let's hope it works, this looks really interesting
[15:35] <bbrawner> Vids should be uploaded there if I'm not mistaken
[15:35]  * _Ridgewing goes and makes a cuppa Horlicks. suggestions ?
[15:36]  * nadrimajstor off to make a cup of coffee
[15:36] <BrianLinuxing> I was really enjoying that!
[15:36] <_Ridgewing> dpm, We're having issues with Martin's audio and video.
[15:37]  * _Ridgewing is Back with Horlicks.
[15:37]  * _Ridgewing decides to take a sneaky peek of the rest of the slides : http://ubuntu-mate.org/slides/uos-1511/
[15:38] <dpm> thanks _Ridgewing for the heads up. Might be worth pointing it to jose, as he was hosting the hangout
[15:39] <jose> dpm: looks like it's the youtube lag, because everything's working fine on the HO
[15:39] <dpm> _Ridgewing, ^^
[15:39] <dpm> thanks jose
[15:39] <jose> np
[15:39] <_Ridgewing> jose: ^ no audio & video in this hangout at moment : http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22575/ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker/ Done.
[15:39] <jose> _Ridgewing: it's the lag I believe?
[15:40] <ali1234> what is "the lag"?
[15:40] <flexiondotorg> Questions?
[15:40] <ali1234> the youtube stream doesn't work for anyone at all, it just plays the last 10 seconds when you reload
[15:40] <RPiAwesomeness> Yup
[15:40] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: YES
[15:40] <ali1234> QUESTION: How much of this is automated? I missed the start...
[15:40] <jose> there's a lag between things are said and emitted on youtube. also, I double checked and it's your end. I opened the video and can see/hear alright.
[15:40] <ali1234> jose: that is not the problem
[15:41] <RPiAwesomeness> Yeah, but it just plays for a few seconds & then stops playing
[15:41] <ali1234> you open the video, it plays for 10 seconds then freezes
[15:41] <RPiAwesomeness> It just loads forever after ~10 seconds
[15:41] <jose> then it's a connection error
[15:41] <ali1234> you refresh, it plays the same 10 seconds then freezes
[15:41] <RPiAwesomeness> ^
[15:41] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: Seems to be using some obscure ubuntu system called Mate. Oh Think Of The Children ! https://greylining.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/think-of-the-children.jpg
[15:41] <ali1234> the same 10 seconds for everyone here
[15:41] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, It is 100% automated.
[15:41] <ali1234> cool, i will definitely try it out on Xubuntu then
[15:41] <ali1234> QUESTION: Do you support device tree in the Pi kernel?
[15:41] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Although, if you install the optional Pi 2 software Jack needs a preseed.
[15:42] <jose> I'm playing it alright. it'll be recorded anyways, so you won't miss anything
[15:42] <ali1234> for stuff like enabling the i2c, spi and other hardware
[15:42] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yes, device tree support is exactly the same as the Raspbian Kernel.
[15:43] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: Where is the bug list for this project in Launchpad or git-hub ?
[15:43] <ali1234> nice
[15:43] <flexiondotorg> So, the new Raspberry Pi Touch screen works once the approrpaite device tree is enabled.
[15:43] <ali1234> QUESTION: Are you aware of LTSP on Raspberry Pi?
[15:43] <flexiondotorg> _Ridgewing, All in Launchpad. Althought I'm using git not bazaar for source control.
[15:44] <RPiAwesomeness> Yeah. Just full reloaded (Ctrl-F5) and tried opening the hangouts link. Same issue
[15:44] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yes, I am aware of LTSP on Pi.
[15:44] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: Yes , but can I have the address to the bug-list, please ?
[15:44] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, However, I typically X2Go.
[15:44]  * _Ridgewing Wants to help-out !
[15:44] <ali1234> did you know that they can now boot the ubuntu kernel over the network from u-boot?
[15:45] <flexiondotorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker
[15:45] <ali1234> i ask because the thing preventing it was related to device tree
[15:45] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Did know about u-boot.
[15:45] <flexiondotorg> But noth the network thing.
[15:45] <ali1234> it now fully boots with only u-boot and config.txt on the sd card, nothing else
[15:45] <flexiondotorg> If might be possible to use uboot with berryboot to create a single image with every flavour on it.
[15:46] <ali1234> don't even need berryboot
[15:46] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, You know you stuff. Please join the team :-)
[15:46] <ali1234> you can have u-boot throw up a menu
[15:46] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: so want your telling me from this address -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker
[15:46] <ogra_> ali1234, sadly uboot cant load the devicetree on its own though
[15:46] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg ... is that there are no bugs listed for this, as of yet ?
[15:46] <ali1234> ogra_: yes it can
[15:46] <ogra_> (i mean it can load it but the kernel wont accept it)
[15:47] <ali1234> ogra_: we did it in raspberrypi a couple of days ago
[15:47] <ali1234> oh hey the stream is back
[15:47] <_Ridgewing> I hear audio !
[15:47] <ogra_> ali1234, uboot can nly load the dtb from ram ... the blob loader needs to do the actual loading
[15:47] <flexiondotorg> _Ridgewing, Just enabled Bugs in LP :-)
[15:47] <_Ridgewing> ok cheers.
[15:47] <RPiAwesomeness> Ey, it's back now
[15:47] <ogra_> elsre it will all fall back to ATAGs and peripherials wont work ... nor will dtb overlays
[15:47] <ali1234> ogra_: u-boot can load the dtb from a tftp server and put it in ram. the kernel will then use it
[15:48] <ali1234> it can also load the dtb from fat partition
[15:48] <ogra_> not in my testing
[15:48] <ali1234> in fact if you do not supply a dtb the kernel will not get past "uncompressing linux"
[15:48] <_Ridgewing> All we can see is the slides !
[15:48] <ogra_> it always uses ATAGs ... and broadcom confirmed to me that this isnt possible
[15:48] <ali1234> what do you mean "it"
[15:48] <flexiondotorg> I'm going join IRC fully. ANd end the hangout.
[15:49] <_Ridgewing> flexiondotorg: QUESTION: Are you aware of this campaign & Did you collaborate ? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu#/
[15:49] <ogra_> the kernel falls back to ATAs if the dtb doesnt come from ram, preloaded by the blob loader
[15:49] <ali1234> ogra_: that's not correct any more. the upstream raspi kernel no longer supports ATAGS
[15:49] <ogra_> so you will boot but with degraded HW capabilities if you load it from uboot only
[15:49] <ogra_> unless that changed in the last 8 weeks
[15:50] <ali1234> and the dtb does not need to be loaded by the blob, u-boot can do it and it works just the same. why would it make any difference?
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> OK, the hangout is ended.
[15:50] <ali1234> ogra_: so two days ago i tested all this and got it working
[15:50] <jose> 5 minutes - Q&A time!
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> We've got 5 mins to feild any questions.
[15:50] <ogra_> ali1234, ah, i'm only taslking about the official ubuntu kernel :) which is mainline plus rpi patches
[15:50]  * ogra_ likes security support for his installs :)
[15:50] <balloons> flexiondotorg, I missed the whole session. got a TLDR :p
[15:50] <ali1234> with no dtb the kernel hangs at "uncompressing linux" and when u-boot loads a dtb it boots fine and everything works
[15:50] <balloons> err TLDW
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> _Ridgewing, Yes, was aware. Backed it.
[15:50] <ali1234> ogra_: this was with a raspbian kernel and with an ubuntu kernelm they both did the same thing
[15:51] <ogra_> ali1234, with broken dtb it shoudl just fall back to atags
[15:51] <ogra_> it definitely does here
[15:51] <flexiondotorg> _Ridgewing, Even shared my Arch Linux cluster knowledged to 2x Pi 1
[15:51] <ali1234> although to be honest i do not know precisely where the ubuntu kernel came from
[15:51] <ogra_> it boots fine but you end up with no /proc/device-tree
[15:52] <ogra_> ali1234, it was initiated by having the official snappy rpi2 image
[15:52] <ali1234> ogra_: i know that it should, and indeed it does when booting from the blob
[15:52] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, The current kernel provides a default DTB that works just like the default Raspbian kernel.
[15:52] <jose> video recording is up now in case anyone wants to re-watch!
[15:52] <ali1234> but if you boot from u-boot with no dtb it hangs
[15:52] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, This is not using the Raspi2 kernel for Snappy in 15.10.
[15:52] <ogra_> it also provides all overlay dtbs
[15:52] <flexiondotorg> Ubuntu Pi Flavour Maker uses a "port" of the Raspberry Pi Foundation Kernel.
[15:52] <ali1234> yes, u-boot cannot do overlays
[15:53] <ali1234> ogra_: can you point me to the vmlinuz of an official ubuntu kernel to test this?
[15:53] <ogra_> ali1234, sure and if you boot with one that was loaded from somewhere else than ram (0x100 specifically) it will use ATAGs
[15:53] <flexiondotorg> Looks like we're done.
[15:53] <ogra_> ali1234, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-raspi2/4.2.0-1014.21
[15:53] <flexiondotorg> Thanks to everyone who attended, please do join the team if you're interested in this project.
[15:53] <nadrimajstor> o/
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Thanks for all the useful info.
[15:54] <ogra_> flexiondotorg, np :)
[15:54] <ogra_> thanks for running that topic (i sadly had other duties during half of it)
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> And we're done. I hope you all enjoy the next session.
[15:55] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Well, hopefully the video recorded OK and you can watch it at your leisure.
[15:55] <ogra_> yeah, will do :)
[15:56] <ali1234> ogra_: what exactly are we arguing about here again?
[15:57] <ogra_> ali1234, uboot cant load device trees properly and will set atags if the dtb doesnt come from ram
[15:57] <ali1234> i just want to be sure :)
[15:57] <ali1234> what do you mean by "come from ram"
[15:57] <ali1234> you mean "was already loaded by the blob"?
[15:57] <ogra_> ali1234, how about we go to #ubuntu-arm
[15:57] <ali1234> sure np
[18:01] <balloons> all set presenter?
[18:13] <LarreaMikel> Hi, no plasma mobile?
[18:17] <balloons> hey, it seems so.
[18:19] <popeyfan> ahh well, at least i can go eat before the next session :)
[18:20] <balloons> I went ahead and removed it from the schedule
[18:20] <balloons> sorry for that. I wanted to see it also, but the presenter isn't about atm
[18:20] <balloons> Not sure what happened
[18:26] <LarreaMikel> ok, no problem ;)
[18:48] <ovidiu-florin> mhall119: ping
[18:50] <mhall119> ovidiu-florin: pong
[18:50] <ovidiu-florin> mhall119: our link: http://youtu.be/fVkGnKfavnw
[18:51] <ovidiu-florin> for the Kubuntu Podcast
[18:51] <mhall119> ovidiu-florin: thanks, got it in summit now
[18:51] <ovidiu-florin> awesome
[18:51] <ovidiu-florin> thank you
[18:51] <sgclark2> hello
[18:58] <ovidiu-florin> sgclark2: hello
[18:58] <ovidiu-florin> apparently I'm the only one here
[19:00] <ovidiu-florin> mhall119: can we start?
[19:01] <mhall119> ovidiu-florin: whenever you're ready
[19:03] <sgclark2> woohoo
[19:03] <mhall119> ovidiu-florin: aaron might be in the ubports session?
[19:04] <ovidiu-florin> I don't know
[19:04] <mhall119> he's marked as attending that one anyway
[19:06] <sgclark2> Correct @ Randa :)
[19:07] <_Ridgewing> ovidiu-florin: Could we have English at the top of the language-chooser by default ?
[19:10] <sgclark2> too late
[19:11]  * sgclark2 takes a month vacation
[19:12] <_Ridgewing> sgclark2: Too late for what ?
[19:12] <sgclark2> Over working myself in open source
[19:13] <sgclark2> volunteering
[19:13] <_Ridgewing> ovidiu-florin: where's THE BEER ?
[19:13] <_Ridgewing> sgclark2: I feel for that.
[19:21] <frecel> I never got into using activities in KDE. I can see why some people like it but I just don't know how to use it it my workflow
[19:25]  * sgclark2 hides
[19:26] <clivejo2> can we clones Scarlet?
[19:26] <sgclark2> lol
[19:26] <clivejo2> hlaf a dozen Scarlets and Kubuntu would be amazing!
[19:27] <ovidiu-florin> https://www.patreon.com/sgclark?ty=c
[19:27] <frecel> There should be a big GET INVOLVED button on the front page of kubuntu.org that links to a wiki page with all the information about how one could help the kubuntu community
[19:28] <_Ridgewing> sgclark2: Oh yeah .. what's the patreon account, address ?
[19:28] <sgclark2> ^
[19:28] <_Ridgewing> oh , got it !
[19:30] <_Ridgewing> Happy to help out with, promotion , here !
[19:30] <clivejo2> it would take me more than 20mins to download it!
[19:31]  * clivejo2 kicks slow internet
[19:32] <sgclark2> lol last minutes
[19:42] <ahoneybun> o/
[19:42] <sgclark2> hiyas
[19:45] <_Ridgewing> ovidiu-florin: I just thought of another outlet for 16.04 . How about distro-watch ... ??
[19:45] <ovidiu-florin> _Ridgewing: what about it?
[19:46] <_Ridgewing> ovidiu-florin: It's just another "softpedia", that I need to contact.
[19:50] <ovidiu-florin> what about distro-watch?
[19:50] <ovidiu-florin> _Ridgewing: ^
[19:51] <_Ridgewing> In the last podcast, yesterday . I was put in charge of self-propotion for Kubuntu (i.e. contacting softpedia etc) . Distrowatch is another outlet that I need to contect to keep their page for Kubuntu updated , Ok ?
[19:53] <valorie> sounds good, _Ridgewing
[19:53] <_Ridgewing> Yeps.
[19:53] <_Ridgewing> Thanks.
[19:53] <valorie> I've been listening at my other computer while cooking and eating. :-)
[19:53] <sgclark2> Need to add my new backports to website :)
[19:55]  * ahoneybun works on that
[19:55] <_Ridgewing> Here's a good Show-and-tell , be sure to subscribe ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73YRk9P9l9Y
[19:55] <valorie> amen! report bugs
[19:56] <valorie> very important contribution
[19:56] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Artwork
[19:56] <ahoneybun> he made those awesome cards too
[19:56] <_Ridgewing> ovidiu-florin: http://imgur.com/Wjn1cvc
[19:57] <_Ridgewing> Also here: Album http://imgur.com/a/ZRjjz
[19:58] <_Ridgewing> I hate the bot !
[19:59] <_Ridgewing> Here's the video: https://youtu.be/fVkGnKfavnw
[20:01] <_Ridgewing> Great video ..)
[20:01] <_Ridgewing> :)
[20:01] <ovidiu-florin> thank you


[11:33] <meena> Odd_Bloke: i see you've started using types! yay! … uhm, what do we get from that? do we have type checkers in the test system?
[13:38] <Odd_Bloke> meena: For now, they serve as documentation.  Per https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/hacking.html#type-annotations, we can't use the typing module yet, so we won't really be able to annotate much of the codebase.
[13:39] <rick_h_> type hints vs type enforcement?
[13:47] <Odd_Bloke> It's really all type hinting, because Python doesn't use the type annotations at runtime at all.
[13:47] <Odd_Bloke> But yeah, we won't have a CI check that enforces them for now.
[14:09] <Odd_Bloke> meena: I would expect @ing a person and commenting on a PR they opened to produce roughly the same notifications in GH.
[16:16] <shibumi> hi, is dhclient really necessary?
[16:16] <shibumi> why is cloud-init not using systemd-networkd for dhcp?
[16:16] <shibumi> I got a bug report for it on arch: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/66035?dev=16600&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=
[16:18] <rharper> shibumi: dhclient is used in early boot only to bring up nic to talk to IMDS;  after crawling metadata service, if the distro has a renderer cloud-init writes out network config in the requested format;
[16:18] <rharper> dhclient is required, on AWS, for example to enable interaction with the IMDS;
[16:19] <blackboxsw> aaaaaand... it's about that time again :)
[16:19] <rharper> the system is not configured to use dhclient and we do not keep the dhclient around
[16:19] <blackboxsw> #startmeeting cloud-init status meeting
[16:19] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 16:19:14 2020 UTC.  The chair is blackboxsw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:19] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:19] <blackboxsw> Hello and welcome to another cloud-init community status meeting folks. please feel free to continue any current conversations
[16:20] <blackboxsw> I'll interleave status meeting notes with existing conversations.
[16:20] <blackboxsw> #chair Odd_Bloke smoser rharper
[16:20] <meetingology> Current chairs: Odd_Bloke blackboxsw rharper smoser
[16:20] <blackboxsw> our IRC channel topic carries the next planned status meeting for those that wish to participate.  All are welcome to interject or drive converstation topics here
[16:21] <blackboxsw> let's set that now. to +2 weeks from now
[16:21] <blackboxsw> April 14th, same time
[16:21] <shibumi> rharper: thanks!
[16:22] <blackboxsw>  Previous meeting notes are here
[16:22] <blackboxsw> #link https://cloud-init.github.io/status-2020-03-10.html#status-2020-03-10
[16:22] <blackboxsw> The topics we generally cover in this meeting are the following: Previous Actions, Recent Changes, In-progress Development, Community Charter, Upcoming Meetings, Office Hours (~30 mins).
[16:22] <blackboxsw> #topic Previous Actions
[16:23] <blackboxsw> and from last meeting, no previous actions were unaccounted for.
[16:23] <blackboxsw> #topic Recent Changes
[16:24] <blackboxsw>  recent changes landed in tip of master via git log --since 2020-03-10
[16:24] <blackboxsw> #link https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/55hqVCfnpV/
[16:24] <rharper> shibumi: also, the issue with openstack metadata service not being found is likely related to classless statci route support in the EphemeralDHCP class in cloud-init, we fixed an issue there last fall,  https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/07b17236be5665bb552c7460102bcd07bf8f2be8
[16:24] <rharper> shibumi: long term, we would like to replace dhclient with a python-based one;  we've just not had a change to implement a minimal dhclient in python only
[16:27] <blackboxsw> in that paste or recent changes, some big items have landed since last we 'met':   both NetBSD and OpenBSD distro support is now added to cloud-init. vmware support of guest info gc status, SAP Converged cloud gets identified as OpenStack and Ubuntu Focal prioritizing netplan over ifupdown if both are present
[16:28] <blackboxsw> Also Odd_Bloke has been landing and improving cloud-init automated process with near daily branches. github actions/workflows and docs about review and coding style expectations are landing to make it a lot easier for upstream to help speed contributions and reviews
[16:29] <blackboxsw> Also, you'll note a lot of dropping python six and other py2-related artifacts from our codebase. Since upstream support is py3.4 or later we can simplify and prune a lot of the vestigial py2 functionality.
[16:31] <blackboxsw> Ahh I also forgot, Ec2 now by default (Ubuntu Focal or tip of cloud-init) renders  full networking, including secondary IPv4/IPv6 addresses, for all interfaces attached to a VM based on network config supplied by IMDS. Old releases of cloud-init used to only render basic networking on the primary (eth0) nic.
[16:32] <blackboxsw> #topic In-progress Development
[16:33] <blackboxsw> thanks Goneri and meena for all your the BSD ongoing development and support work  there BTW
[16:33]  * Goneri waves
[16:38] <blackboxsw> :)     upstream is focused a bit on continuing to clean up py2 remnants from tip, adding support for reading netplan configuration from initramfs and continuing to add automation to the github development and release process/tooling to speed reviews.
[16:39] <blackboxsw> we are also hammering the review queue a bit better than in the past with daily PR assignments to ensure the system remains more efficient
[16:40] <blackboxsw> thanks again for all the code submits folks!
[16:41] <blackboxsw> waiting In the wings we will eventually get around to handling the network hotplug solution for cloud-init (if configured)
[16:42] <blackboxsw> #topic  Community Charter
[16:43] <blackboxsw> This section is generally reserved to discuss any general community goals for cloud-init. Per last cloud-init summit we discussed prioritizing the following:
[16:43] <blackboxsw> * json schema validation for each cloudinit/config/cc_*py module
[16:43] <blackboxsw> * correcting, extending stale datasource documentation under doc/rtd/topics/datasources
[16:44] <blackboxsw> those tasks are easy to split up and so we set a goal to try to chunk through it this year
[16:44] <blackboxsw> they are also categorized as bugs for easy pickup/assignment for anyone interested.
[16:45] <blackboxsw> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
[16:45] <blackboxsw> #topic Office hours (next ~30 mins)
[16:46] <blackboxsw> thanks for listening to the above......   In this section a couple upstream devs should be available with eyes on the channel for the next 30 minutes for and bug, feature, PR review questions or concerns.
[16:46] <blackboxsw> again thanks for joining. We'll have this meeting again in 2 weeks
[16:47] <blackboxsw> I'm going to spend this time working on our cherry-pick script for publishing the Netplan -> ENI work into Ubuntu Focal today.
[17:17] <blackboxsw> Thanks for tuning in.
[17:17] <blackboxsw> #endmeeting
[17:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 17:17:39 2020 UTC.
[17:17] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/cloud-init/2020/cloud-init.2020-03-31-16.19.moin.txt
[17:35]  * meena blames baby for *not* doing BSD work or support lately.
[17:47] <blackboxsw> ohhhh sssssuuuuure meena. blame it on the baby ;) that's why I have kids too ;)
[17:48] <blackboxsw> that, and I needed someone in the house that also likes board games
[17:49] <meena> currently, she loves screaming, a lot. And honestly, as the youth say: mood.
[17:50] <blackboxsw> :)
[17:56] <rick_h_> that's the problem, you think "a kid, yea we're going to do all these fun things together!"
[17:56] <rick_h_> and then you realize none of that starts until you put in a LOT of foundation time (like 3+ years)
[17:57] <blackboxsw> true story
[17:58] <sarnold> "have you considered a puppy instead?"
[18:27] <meena> sarnold: we already have 2 cats (they're not fans)
[18:29] <sarnold> haha :)
[20:13] <Gaffel> Do I have to resort to raw commands to create a system user and group where a home dir is created and its ownership and security label is set properly? (UID and GID below 1000, but create home)
[20:22] <Odd_Bloke> Gaffel: It does look like not creating a homedir for a system user is hardcoded, unfortunately: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/master/cloudinit/distros/__init__.py#L471-L478
[20:23] <Gaffel> I was worried about that. That's not how useradd works though, which makes me disappointed. :[
[20:24] <Gaffel> I want to create a user+group with a UID & GID between 500 and 999 that also creates a home directory with the right ownership and SELinux labels. But I guess I'll have to do it differently.
[20:26] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I'm not sure what the reasoning there is, but it looks like that behaviour has been in place since 2012.
[20:26] <Odd_Bloke> It certainly seems like overriding that default behaviour would be desirable.
[20:26] <Odd_Bloke> This looks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1864728 to em.
[20:26] <Odd_Bloke> *me
[20:27] <Odd_Bloke> Gaffel: Do you have any interest in addressing the issue in cloud-init? ^_^
[20:27] <Gaffel> Changing the behaviour will be tricky, won't it?
[20:28] <Gaffel> I guess no_create_home could be checked and the current behaviour would remain unless you set that to false.
[20:29] <Gaffel> I assume that leaving it blank results in none though.
[20:30] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I think you're along the right path with using no_create_home.
[20:32] <Odd_Bloke> The defaulting would be a little tricky, but not super hard once you've reasoned out the matrix of possible combinations.
[20:39] <Gaffel> I have the same usecase and OS family as that person. I'm trying to introduce more security hardening at work. I'll look into this. :]
[20:43] <Gaffel> I'm new to cloud-init so I'll do my best. :)
[20:46] <Odd_Bloke> Gaffel: \o/ You'll want to read through https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/hacking.html to get started.
[20:46] <Odd_Bloke> Gaffel: Though actually the CLA info there is out-of-date, you can just fill in your GH username and that's sufficient.
[20:46] <Odd_Bloke> (The wording here predates that field being in the CLA form. :p)
[20:53] <Gaffel> You mean the field where it wants my Launchpad ID?
[20:53] <Gaffel> Or just leave that blank?
[20:56] <Gaffel> I can't even read the text in the verification image. :/
[20:58] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I guess we should update the docs and mention the field in the form
[20:58] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Yep, addressing that now.
[20:58] <rharper> awesome!
[20:59] <Gaffel> And do I really need to enter my physical address? :|
[21:00] <Odd_Bloke> AFAIK, you do.
[21:01] <Gaffel> :/
[21:06] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/297
[21:06] <rharper> reviewing


[07:59] <juliank> heh gnome-shell is unhappy and logs
[07:59] <juliank> Aug 02 09:58:48 jak-t14-g3 gnome-shell[4954]: g_closure_add_invalidate_notifier: assertion 'closure->n_inotifiers < CLOSURE_MAX_N_INOTIFIERS' failed
[07:59] <juliank> multiple times per second :D
[08:04] <juliank> huh something is shot here, flatpaks don't work either, snaps do
[08:04] <juliank> let'S reboot
[08:07] <juliank> I guess some dbus service died, all is well again, do I want to investigate this further?
[10:23] <KGB-2> glib Jeremy Bicha 416220 * commented merge request !24 * https://deb.li/i2Ekc
[16:07] <GunnarHj> RikMills: My first attempt to fix bug #2029322 failed (ibus failed to build) but I think I'm on it now.
[16:07] <GunnarHj> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/ibus/-/blob/master/debian/patches/Fix-typo-in-src-ibusservice.h.patch
[16:07] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2029322 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus 1.5.29~beta1-1 in mantic proposed causes plasma-desktop to FTBFS" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2029322
[16:13] <RikMills> GunnarHj: that is weird, as your 1st try built ok in a ppa for me, as I wanted to test plasma-desktop build against it
[16:13] <RikMills> anyway, thanks for any fix when it comes
[16:13] <RikMills> :D
[16:14] <GunnarHj> RikMills: At least it failed in Debian (and for me locally). I think the next variant is safer.
[16:15] <RikMills> ack, thanks
[16:15] <GunnarHj> np
[16:16] <RikMills> oh, it failed on arch-all in debian. may be why
[16:16] <GunnarHj> RikMills: Right.


[00:00] <niemeyer> jimbaker`: Run this within the branch directory and it'll do the whole magic
[16:27] <marrusl> hey folks...  so if I set "default-instance-type: m1.large" ...  what should I do to change the default AMI to 64-bit?
[16:27] <marrusl> should I dig up the ami number manually?  or can I set the architecture in environments.yaml?
[16:28] <marrusl> I mean "dig up the ami # manually and set default-image-id?  or..."
[16:51] <_mup_> ensemble/lib-zookeeper-base r316 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:51] <_mup_> Merge base for lib-zookeeper.
[17:28] <hazmat> marrusl, it looks like you need to manually select the image for 64 bits
[17:59] <marrusl> hazmat, ok.  in any case I did end up doing that.  no problems.  thanks for the confirmation.


[15:45] <Geochr> Hi all, Is there a webpage with translation stats  as in previous releases ? For examble in 13.04 was  http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8081/stats/raring
[15:45] <Geochr> Which is the page fo 13.10 ?
[15:58] <dpm> Geochr, I've not had the chance to set it up yet for 13.10 unfortunately :/
[16:08] <Geochr> dpm, Do know if the page will be avalable before the Global Jam ?