[06:08] <raymond> can some one tellme how to fix my sound
[06:09] <raymond> i rovedmoved  my sound cared form   the play back mainmun
[06:09] <raymond> how do i add it back
[06:10] <raymond> ?
[06:42] <raymond__> is there any one here ?
[06:45] <cfhowlett> !patience|tieraymond__,
[06:45] <Unit193> What's up? (about to head out.)
[06:50] <raymond__> i rewmoved my sound cared form the play back how do i add it back ?
[12:07] <appolo> greetings
[12:08] <zequence> appolo: hi
[13:54]  * appolo listens to https://soundcloud.com/edm/ftw-by-lets-be-friends-edm-com
[13:55] <appolo> outrageous sound
[13:58]  * appolo listens to  Nickynutz feat Daddy Tar - Zig Zawya (jungle remix)
[14:22] <raymond__> is any one here ?
[14:31] <appolo> nop
[17:52] <jomar_> Hi, Crazy guys! And beuty girls! :0
[17:53] <jomar_> I am very happy with my ubuntu studio.
[17:53] <jomar_> I was using windows 7 for all life.
[17:54] <jomar_> Now I am a very happy Ubuntu user for last 2 years.
[19:41] <Wharfedale> Hi guys! Have been googeling aroud a bit and could not find an answer to this. I just istalled the ubuntu studio and realise now its not for me. Is there any way to migrate from studio to kubuntu, or will I have to do it all from scratch?
[20:02] <raymond_> hi all
[20:02] <raymond_> i have a ? if any one can help me
[20:02] <raymond_> how doi set  my sound cared as defalt?
[21:14] <hansford> I wondered if someone can help me on Rosegarden......
[21:32] <MaynardWaters> hansford, keep talking if I know anything about your question I'll share
[21:32] <MaynardWaters> I've had mixxed results with rosegarden, but when I get it working nicely, I get excited
[21:33] <MaynardWaters>  /j #beets


[12:08] <krabador> excuse me, i would know if that http://chat.ubuntu-it.org/   , with wrong redirect, depends from international Ubuntu site administrators
[12:24] <krabador> am i voiced?
[12:25] <popey> krabador: looks like it's hosted by canonical, but I don't know who in the Ubuntu-IT community manages it..
[12:25] <krabador> popey: yes , a staff, i asked , but 2 days of nothing
[12:26] <popey> does anyone in #ubuntu-it know who looks after the site?
[12:27] <krabador> for that i would ask directly to administrators
[13:45] <bazhang> starts by calling everyone a-holes after no one goes for the PM plz support
[13:46] <bazhang> all guides tried, nothing worked
[13:46] <bazhang> irc too fast, oh wait I have to switch machines now
[14:06] <Pici> bazhang: they're using the webchat, I wonder if it is embedded in some page somewhere that it making it not "fullscreen" like normal.
[14:06] <bazhang> still no basic answers , just more delays
[14:07] <bazhang> he wants the full elegant ubuntu gnome experience on an ancient intel card, 2gb ram, 10yr old lappy
[14:08] <bazhang> @random gimmepony gimmeHURD
[14:09] <bazhang> refuses all offers of help in channel, all suggestions, must be via PM
[17:47] <teward> can someone banforward in #ubuntu to ##fix_your_connection on this guy?
[17:47] <teward> [2015-04-13 13:46:42] * Mike9863 (~Mike9863@2600:1001:b027:26d9:3cd4:4e6:3c0e:cf8b) has joined #ubuntu
[17:47] <teward> [2015-04-13 13:46:43] * Mike9863 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[17:47] <teward> (repeatedly doing that)


[12:14] <Simira> come on guys!  Just a large-eater :p
[12:16] <tseng> tollef is a sleepy head
[12:17] <Simira> he's sick, poor boy!
[12:17] <tseng> :(
[12:17] <Simira> physically, I mean.
[12:17] <dilinger> d'oh
[12:17] <Simira> it's your airconditioning, I think
[12:17] <dilinger> apparently making suggestions at a BOF that you're not actually attending, but just happened to spring up around you, gets you listed as a Key Person
[12:17] <tseng> dilinger: rock on.
[12:18] <Simira> yay
[12:20] <tseng> dilinger: i think jane and the gang are being really cool about scheduling, all things considered
[12:21] <Simira> jane and the gang, actually :)
[12:22] <tseng> hm?
[12:23] <tseng> any idea what UBB is?
[12:23] <Simira> Ubuntu Breezy Bounties?
[12:23] <Simira> No idea
[12:23] <tseng> oh, good call
[12:23] <dilinger> tseng: yea, i haven't had any complaints really
[12:24] <dilinger> other than two things being scheduled at the same time that i was interested in, but i didn't mark myself interested in the wiki, so that's my own fault
[12:24] <tseng> dilinger: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/security/linking-protections-2.6.11-rc3.patch is the trulux patch
[12:24] <tseng> dilinger: he stuck it in namei.c
[12:24] <tseng> dilinger: and it has no sysctl
[12:25] <tseng> or actually, even a build option
[12:25] <dilinger> yea, i noticed the lack of sysctl
[12:25] <tseng> we cant make it always on.
[12:26] <dilinger> tseng: he said they're disabled via arguments passed to the module and sysfs
[12:26] <tseng> um.
[12:26] <dilinger> (again, i just skimmed through, so i didn't verify)
[12:26] <tseng> there must be more to the patch then
[12:27] <tseng> there is no bit for Kconfig or anything to even make it a module
[12:27] <tseng> id rather make it work just like spenders copy
[12:27] <Unfrgiven> good morning tseng!
[12:27] <tseng> hey dude
[12:28] <Unfrgiven> how are we this morning?
[12:28] <tseng> fine thanks
[12:28] <tseng> we have a "getting involved in universe" bof today
[12:28] <tseng> so we can pick up from yesterday
[12:29] <Unfrgiven> yeah ill b there for sure
[12:29] <Unfrgiven> i was up past 3 trying to get dpatch to work... no luck :(
[12:29] <Unfrgiven> i even read ur blog
[12:30] <tseng> ill show you later, its easy
[12:32] <Unfrgiven> tseng: my problem is that pbuilder doesnt seem to apply the patch
[12:32] <Unfrgiven> anyways no matter... ill see you there
[12:32] <Unfrgiven> im gonna go get ready
[12:32] <Unfrgiven> cya
[12:32] <tseng> yes, we'll look later
[12:35] <tseng> Simira: tollef is here and looking chipper!
[12:35] <Simira> tseng: without me? Hm... what's he been up to, I wonder...
[12:36] <Simira> tseng: give him a kick to get online, then :)
[12:37] <Simira> tseng: he'd probably good  use for a long night's sleep, then. :-)
[12:57] <dholbach> morning
[12:58] <Simira> morning Sydney
[01:05] <jsgotangco> good morning
[01:05] <tseng> hi.
[01:59] <jammcq_oz> Riddell: hey, does kubuntu use kdm instead of gdm?
[01:59] <Burgundavia> jammcq_oz, you can choose either is you do an install on an Ubuntu box
[01:59] <mdke> jammcq_oz, #kubuntu
[02:00] <jammcq_oz> tanks
[02:00] <mdke> hi smurfix
[02:04] <mdke> smurfix, how is the locoteam stuff coming along?
[02:04] <dilinger> i'm hitting the mentos early this morning..
[02:04] <tfheen> cc: any reason why SpecProcess is both Draft and Edited?
[02:04] <fabbione> pitti: you around?
[02:05] <pitti> fabbione: yeah
[02:05] <pitti> fabbione: sublime 3
[02:05] <cc> tfheen: oversight, lets get it fixed
[02:05] <Riddell> jammcq_oz: yes it uses KDM of course
[02:05] <fabbione> pitti: gamin inotify backend is broken. Once i upload the new kernel with inotify, half of the apps using fam7gam will break
[02:05] <tfheen> cc: ok, it's edited?  I'll change it, put it in the queue
[02:05] <fabbione> pitti: i suggest to temporary disable it in gamin
[02:06] <tfheen> s/, / and /
[02:06] <smurfix> mdke: EditedSpec, I cleaned up the last outstanding issuses last night
[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: mind if i do the upload?
[02:06] <pitti> fabbione: of course not :-)
[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: or do you want to do it?
[02:06] <cc> tfheen: yeah it is
[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks
[02:06] <pitti> fabbione: I won't upload until next week
[02:06] <mdke> smurfix, come again?
[02:06] <tfheen> cc: ok, thanks.
[02:06] <smurfix> mdke you wanted to know about the locoteam stuff
[02:07] <mdke> smurfix, yeah just that your answer went a bit over my head
[02:07] <mdke> ;)
[02:07] <smurfix> mdke: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamProcess
[02:07] <mdke> ty
[02:09] <pitti> thom: here?
[02:10] <thom> pitti: not if i can help it
[02:10] <pitti> thom: which package contains the default firefox page?
[02:11] <tfheen> ubuntu-artwork, I think
[02:11] <pitti> tfheen: that's what I hoped :-)
[02:11] <mdke> it definitely used to be in ubuntu-artwork
[02:11] <thom> ubuntu-artwork
[02:12] <pitti> thom: the translations, too?
[02:12] <thom> what translations?
[02:12] <pitti> thom: okay, thanks :-)
[02:12] <mdke> pitti, did anyone chat to you about getting documentation into the language-packs?
[02:13] <pitti> mdke: into the language-support packages at most; we covered the topic briefly yesterday, but we will flesh it out in today's bof
[02:13] <mdke> cool
[02:13] <mdke> see if you can get jsgotangco along :)
[02:14] <jsgotangco> what time is that
[02:14] <mdke> *laughs*
[02:14] <mdke> poor jsgotangco
[02:14] <jsgotangco> grrr
[02:14] <jsgotangco> i havent been sleeping well lately
[02:14] <mdke> pitti, i discussed it briefly with mdz and he was keen, but i understand it will be quite difficul
[02:15] <mdke> at the moment we are sticking translations into ubuntu-docs but its all a little bit improvised
[02:15] <pitti> mdke: can you come to today's BoF?
[02:15] <fabbione> pitti: gamin on the way
[02:16] <pitti> rock
[02:16] <mdke> pitti, other side of the worl
[02:16] <mdke> d
[02:16] <pitti> thom: ... and the default bookmarks?
[02:16] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:16] <mdke> dig a hole straight down, and you'll get to me
[02:16] <pitti> mdke: I think we developed a pretty good idea yesterday, just needs some fleshing out
[02:16] <thom> pitti: individual packages
[02:16] <pitti> thom: that means in m-ffox and so on?
[02:16] <mdke> pitti, by the way that firefox default page is the same as about-ubuntu isn't it? we have some translations of that
[02:16] <thom> yeah
[02:16] <mdke> maybe they could be transposed
[02:16] <pitti> thom: do you think it would be possible to move them into u-artwork?
[02:17] <pitti> thom: there must be some sort of dependency already for the startup page anyway?
[02:17] <pitti> mdke: yeah, but I think we don't use them in hoary
[02:18] <thom> pitti: possibly
[02:18] <mpt> That kind of bothers me
[02:18] <mdke> pitti, ok, if you want them, they are in the docs package ;)
[02:18] <mpt> MSIE's default home page in OS X isn't "About Windows"
[02:18] <mpt> er, Windows, sorry
[02:19] <mdke> its msn ;)
[02:19] <mpt> and Safari's default home page in OSX isn't "About OS X"
[02:19] <mpt> Yes, MSIE's is MSN, which lets you search the Web and stuff
[02:19] <mpt> and Firefox's is Google, which lets you search the Web and stuff
[02:19] <mdke> i also agree, there is a prominent about-ubuntu icon in the gnome menu
[02:19] <mpt> and Safari's is ... what is Safari's?
[02:19] <mdke> so no real need for the home page
[02:19] <mpt> I think it's some Apple-branded Netscape.com
[02:20] <thom> mpt: one of our cases is offline users
[02:20] <thom> which means a local page
[02:20] <mpt> http://apple.netscape.com/
[02:21] <jsgotangco> that is nice
[02:21] <mdke> what offline stuff does firefox get used for?
[02:21] <mpt> People, of their own volition, start up Firefox when they're offline?
[02:21] <thom> mdke: we can't assume our users actually *have* internet connections
[02:21] <mpt> without intending to go online?
[02:21] <HrdwrBoB> could be a local netwok
[02:21] <thom> mpt: totally, all the time
[02:21] <HrdwrBoB> network
[02:21] <tfheen> mpt: frequently, yes.
[02:21] <HrdwrBoB> or documentation
[02:21] <mdke> thom, agreed, but firefox is for the internet
[02:21] <mpt> If that's true, that's a bug in Nautilus
[02:21] <tfheen> I do it to read docs on planes and stuff
[02:21] <thom> mdke: no, it's for viewing html
[02:21] <fabbione> pitti: gamin accepted
[02:21] <jsgotangco> its good for html docs
[02:22] <jsgotangco> not just for the net
[02:22] <thom> whether it is online or off
[02:22] <mdke> thom, i think that people when reading html will open it from nautilus
[02:22] <mpt> i.e. it's too hard to find the doc in Nautilus and double-click it
[02:22] <tfheen> or actually, I run mozilla than since I've got session saved in ff.
[02:22] <jsgotangco> right
[02:22] <mdke> its really inconvenient to open ff and then go to "file/open"
[02:22] <mdke> i always open from nautilus
[02:22] <tfheen> mdke: that does not match how I use it, I use it for browsing for html files.
[02:22] <mdke> tfheen, fair enough
[02:23] <thom> mdke: totally disagree, i never use nautilus, i do use firefox offline; we need to support that case, which means no online home page
[02:23] <tfheen> mdke: I'm not saying both use cases are interesting, but your is not the only one.
[02:23] <mdke> tfheen, yes i see
[02:23] <mdke> tfheen, i suppose the solution adopted covers all bases
[02:23] <mpt> thom: Or, it means having an online home page and incorporating decent fixes for bug 28586 in the Ubuntu Fx package.
[02:24] <tfheen> mpt: which tracker is that bug # in?
[02:24] <thom> 28586 does not exist
[02:24] <tfheen> thom: b.m.o
[02:24] <tfheen> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28586
[02:25] <mdke> is the firefox home page synched with the about ubuntu yelp page?
[02:25] <mpt> I know that bug number off by heart because I reported it so I can't unsubscribe from it :-)
[02:25] <mpt> Five years of bugspam
[02:26] <jsgotangco> haha a bug on the buglist
[02:26] <fabbione> tfheen, smurfix: aorund 11:30 will come a guy from the local university that is working on xen as upstream/derivate project to talk with me, if you are interested we can meet up in global?
[02:27] <tfheen> fabbione: rock
[02:29] <fabbione> tfheen: according to what he wrote me in the mail, it is a really interesting thing they are working on
[02:33] <tfheen> Kamion: ping?
[02:33] <cc> tfheen: minu-buntu or mini-buntu?
[02:34] <tfheen> cc: mini-ubuntu, I think, and buntu would be pronounced microbuntu.
[02:34] <cc> tfheen: yeah, figured ;-)
[02:34] <cc> i'l fix it
[02:35] <tfheen> cc: thanks
[02:35] <hypatia> I've been calling it mu-buntu ;)
[02:35] <tfheen> I don't think there are any pronounciation rules for blends of greek and Zulu words.
[02:36] <cc> anyone see a dr. evil link ?
[02:39] <tfheen> fabbione: I'm going to be in sublime 2 until 11:30, just ping me if the guy shows up.
[02:40] <fabbione> tfheen: no problem.. i will
[02:48] <tfheen> sladen: get up to sublime 2, you're second.
[02:54] <smurfix> Anybody seen doko / abaxter around?
[03:09] <fabbione> Kamion: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/04/27/1836227.shtml?tid=189&tid=190&tid=106
[03:10] <zul> fabbione: someone just ported anaconda
[03:10] <ogra> zul to ubuntu ?
[03:10] <zul> gentoo
[03:10] <ogra> ah, ok...
[03:14] <odyssey> are packages in main allowed to depend on a package that is in the universe?
[03:14] <tfheen> no
[03:14] <seb128> they are not
[03:14] <odyssey> thats what i though
[03:15] <seb128> why ?
[03:15] <odyssey> i cant install libgda2-common from main without libgda2-3 that is in universe
[03:16] <seb128> don't use breezy
[03:16] <seb128> it's known to be broken
[03:17] <odyssey> k
[03:24] <fabbione> tfheen: want to join us in global?
[03:25] <tfheen> fabbione: two minutes
[03:25] <fabbione> ok
[03:26] <jammcq_oz> pitti: in the audio bof yesterday, did you say that network audio wasn't going to be supported in breezy?
[03:27] <jammcq_oz> or do we get that for free, with polypaudio?
[03:34] <d3vic3> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/04/msg01048.html
[03:34] <d3vic3> :)
[03:34] <d3vic3> *speechless*
[03:36] <pitti> jammcq_oz: if we switch to polypaudio (very likely), then  you should have reasonable net support
[03:38] <fabbione> tfheen: time is out: you are the weakest link. kthxbye
[03:42] <tfheen> thom: could you look at buntu and address cc's comments?  Just steal my lock.
[03:42] <thom> tfheen: sure
[03:43] <cc> tfheen, thom: thanks
[03:43] <tfheen> thom: thanks a lot
[03:47] <thom> has anyone had breezy-changes mail today?
[03:48] <|QuaD-> thom: i did earlier on
[04:06] <jiyuu0> guys.. any inputs?
[04:06] <jiyuu0> Unofficial UbuntuGuide 5.04 Add-On CD Guide
[04:06] <jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=150651
[04:10] <Kamion> tfheen: yes?
[04:10] <Kamion> fabbione: whatever :)
[04:18] <lifeless> cc: ping
[04:19] <lifeless> can you please review TlaAndBazBranding ?
[04:19] <louie_> hello, lifeless
[04:21] <lifeless> louie_: hi
[04:21] <lifeless> back home now ?
[04:28] <Janux> hi, anyone knows how to show chinese characters in the xmms playlist? or music player in Ubuntu?
[04:37] <tfheen> Kamion: uhm, forgotten what I was going to ask about.
[04:40] <Kamion> heh
[04:41] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Screenshot.png  maybe ?
[04:56] <jnc> Janux: 'rhythmbox' *should* do it
[04:59] <spiv> Hmm?
[04:59] <spiv> Argh, death lag from hell.
[05:00] <jnc> hell hath no fury like a server split
[05:00] <jnc> i give up
[05:01] <tfheen> daniels: you going to sit around here for a little while?
[05:02] <tfheen> (it seems to be easier to catch your attention on IRC than RL. :P)
[05:02] <robertj> heya all, how is udu?
[05:02] <daniels> tfheen: yes
[05:04] <louie_> oh, hrm, any opinions on how badly broken current breezy is?
[05:09] <thom> mucho if you use evo
[05:11] <Lathiat> and any mono stuf
[05:12] <jdub> louie_: don't dist-upgrade, just upgrade ;)
[05:13] <Lathiat> lathiat@archer:~$ cat .xsession-errors |tail -n1
[05:13] <Lathiat> ...Too much output, ignoring rest...
[05:13] <louie_> jdub: refresh my atrophied debian brain; what's the difference?
[05:13] <Lathiat> theres a good debugging feature :)
[05:13] <jdub> louie_: dist-upgrade will add and remove to satisyf the upgrade
[05:14] <jdub> louie_: upgrade just does what it can without removing
[05:14] <louie_> ah
[05:14] <louie_> right
[05:14] <Lathiat> what bit me was i had breezy running and then wanted to install evo which i previously had uninstalled :)
[05:19] <louie_> hrm
[05:19] <louie_> yeah
[05:19] <louie_> evo
[06:12] <tfheen> Kamion: if you're happy with oemrescue, please move the post-it note on the wall and add it to mdz's queue.
[06:31] <jsgotangco> tseng, ping?
[06:37] <cc> elmo: ping; launchpad wiki lacks working spell checker; same problem as the udu wiki, so i presume its the same fix (utf-8 blah)
[06:43] <robertj> oeminstaller seems pretty nice
[06:43] <robertj> as an idea anyway
[06:44] <robertj> too bad AFAIK partimage-server is b0rk in hoary
[06:45] <tfheen> oeminstaller is basically a nice wrapper around dd
[06:46] <tseng> jsgotangco: ?
[06:46] <tseng> jsgotangco: pongles
[06:49] <dilinger> jbailey: ping
[06:53] <cc> if anyone sees  JuanjeOjedaQueue, OliverGrawertQueue, tell them to rock up please
[06:54] <tseng> rocks out, bottoms up dude.
[06:54] <ogra> cc ?
[06:55] <ogra> cc, whats wrong ?
[06:56] <cc> ogra: this is in regards to GraphicalPartitioningTool; and also, do you read your Activity page? because its been waiting on you for a while...
[06:56] <cc> ogra: please fix, thanks. or have another BOF and fix :)
[06:57] <Lathiat> cc: they are keeping you busy :)
[06:57] <cc> Lathiat: definitely; i pretty much know all the specs in my head now...
[06:58] <ogra> cc, i read it about hourly....
[06:58] <Lathiat> heh
[06:58] <ogra> cc, whats missing ? what we meant with "ship" is explained in the brackets... i see no other comments
[06:59] <Kamion> I explained the ship thing
[06:59] <Kamion> it's standard Ubuntu terminology
[06:59] <ogra> yep
[07:00] <Kamion> although not standard outside Ubuntu :)
[07:00] <ogra> :)
[07:01] <cc> ogra: i want information on packages affected; UI requirements (you have no thoughts on how it should look for the user), and the implementation plan can definitely be expanded, i'm sure
[07:01] <cc> Kamion: yeah, i figured that out after reading other docs in general. but i think others who are going to be picked up by google juice might not as well
[07:01] <Kamion> nod, that's why I explained ;)
[07:01] <ogra> cc, i'm not sure if we look at the same version....
[07:01] <cc> then that: Check with parted list about preferred frontend - there have been some issues with qtparted and error handling in the past. May be fixed now, it's been a little while since I hung out on the list (StewartSmith)
[07:02] <cc> ogra: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalPartitioningTool
[07:02] <cc> ogra: you're welcome to come here so i can tell you in person...
[07:02] <ogra> cc, i'll do :)
[07:03] <Kamion> is there any other Qt-based parted frontend?
[07:04] <tfheen> Kamion: 06:12 < tfheen> Kamion: if you're happy with oemrescue, please move the post-it note on the wall and add it to mdz's queue.
[07:05] <cc> Kamion: qt-parted is dead upstream iirc
[07:06] <Kamion> tfheen: yeah, was just doing that :)
[07:06] <Kamion> (done)
[07:06] <tfheen> Kamion: ok, goodie.  Just didn't know if you'd seen me poking you
[07:07] <Kamion> cc: we do need something Qt-based for Kubuntu though - maybe that means one of us has to pick it up
[07:07] <Kamion> naturally the Ubuntu one would be GNOMEish
[07:07] <Kamion> or GTKish or whatever
[07:08] <Lathiat> gparted seems to work
[07:08] <cc> Kamion: i keep on forgetting about KDE users ;-)
[07:10] <Kamion> so if necessary, the spec might need to say that we need to assume maintenance ...
[07:10] <Kamion> dunno
[07:13] <cc> ogra: hear all that from Kamion okay... and make it into the spec
[07:14] <mako> if you are at UDU and want to do the keysigning: http://mako.yukidoke.org/projects/ksp-udu/
[07:14] <mako> Riddell: ^^
[07:14] <tfheen> Keybuk: if you could take a look at udevraces when you have time, I'd appreciate.
[07:15] <Keybuk> haven't we got a session on that one later?
[07:15] <tfheen> we have, but I wrote up what we have so far. :P
[07:15] <dilinger> mako: you just got verbed
[07:16] <dilinger> "i almost mako'd my laptop"
[07:16] <Keybuk> could be worse, the laptop could've been allouched
[07:16] <schweeb> you guys apparently don't know about whiprushing
[07:17] <mako> dilinger: heh
[07:18] <dilinger> schweeb: whiprushing/
[07:18] <dilinger> ?
[07:18] <Lathiat> mako: what did you do to your laptop :)
[07:19] <tseng> schweeb: wha?
[07:19] <schweeb> dilinger: it involves carelessly dist-upgrading :)
[07:19] <schweeb> and has been extended to just about anything whiprush does to his systems to screw then up
[07:19] <Keybuk> mako has been known to pour water over his laptop
[07:19] <schweeb> tseng: here's some dirt
[07:19] <Lathiat> haha
[07:19] <Keybuk> and then in the madness to clean it up, pour water over someone else's laptop
[07:19] <Lathiat> Keybuk: are you serious?
[07:20] <schweeb> tseng: whiprush's shutdown commands on certain boxes have needed to have been moved... he's been known to type shutdown -h now in the wrong terminal window
[07:20] <Lathiat> in hind site, that be funny :)
[07:20] <Kamion> Lathiat: see mako's blog passim
[07:20] <tfheen> Keybuk: and to drop his laptop into a bucket of water.
[07:20] <Lathiat> tfheen: was it on?
[07:20] <tseng> schweeb: i believe that
[07:20] <Lathiat> thats just scary :)
[07:20] <Kamion> the 'shutdown -h now' thing happens to us all, with variations
[07:20] <daniels> schweeb: the best solution I've seen is to divert shutdown to shutdown.hostname on every machine
[07:20] <mako> Lathiat: he's seriously
[07:20] <Kamion> 'ifdown eth0' OH SHIT is also a common variant
[07:20] <tseng> schweeb: i really enjoyed today listening to him bash gentoo people when he is like that
[07:20] <Lathiat> i had a friend who, on a friday night, shut down the wrong box
[07:21] <tfheen> Lathiat: I don't know.
[07:21] <daniels> so sudo shutdown.tycho on gabe is harmless
[07:21] <Keybuk> killall python...oh fuck, it's SunOS
[07:21] <daniels> well, sudo shutdown.tycho -h now
[07:21] <daniels> Keybuk: heh
[07:21] <schweeb> tseng: I'm not too fond of gentoo myself...
[07:21] <Lathiat> that hurts
[07:21] <tfheen> Kamion: I've stopped doing shutdowns without doing a fresh login.  That helps a fair bit.
[07:21] <tseng> schweeb: me neither, but he's a bigot :P
[07:21] <schweeb> daniels: yea... or have the hostname in your prompt, and think before you type :)
[07:22] <schweeb> thinking before you type is the best preventative method :)
[07:22] <daniels> i have the hostname in my prompt, but thinking before I type is not my strongpoint
[07:23] <tfheen> differently coloured terminals for different hosts help too
[07:23] <tfheen> friend of mine uses that.  And has a fair amount of hosts to attend to
[07:24] <Lathiat> mako: ahh, good work.
[07:39] <jdub> http://perkypants.org/misc/the-fridge.jpg
[07:40] <tseng> zomg
[07:40] <elmo> omghfsnw
[07:40] <jammcq_oz> mdz_: ping
[07:42] <hawke> The bug here:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=154504 seems to apply to ubuntu also...where should I report this?
[07:43] <ctd> to bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[07:43] <hawke> ctd: thanks
[07:45] <Unfrgiven> jdub: what is the fridge bof about?
[07:46] <moquist> Unfrgiven: a website where folks can stick the best work to show mom & dad.
[07:47] <ogra> Kamion, isnt that up tothe kubutu guys to care for the qt-parted maintenance (find someone) ? i really cant judge qt tools...
[07:48] <Riddell> ogra: why are we talking about qt-parted
[07:49] <ogra> Riddell, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalPartitioningTool
[07:49] <ogra> Riddell, do you know any alternative for usage in a liveCD installer ?
[07:52] <jbailey> Anyone seen silbs?
[07:52] <fabbione> jbailey: she is in global
[07:52] <fabbione> right in front of me
[07:52] <jbailey> Thanks. =)
[07:54] <Unfrgiven> moquist: ur not serious right?
[07:57] <Riddell> ogra: qtparted, but I've never used it
[07:57] <hawke> jbailey: enjoy your new bug.
[07:57] <Riddell> ogra: but yes, it'll be up to kubuntu to make it usable
[07:57] <ogra> Kamion, so we wouldnt have to cover it in _this_ spec, right ?
[07:58] <jbailey> hawke: Which one?
[07:58] <hawke> jbailey: 10245
[07:59] <jbailey> Reduced testcase!
[07:59] <jbailey> Sweet!
[07:59] <jbailey> hawke: Thanks. =)
[08:02] <hawke> jbailey: Well, I didn't come up with the test case(s), so I can't take credit for that.
[08:17] <moquist> Unfrgiven: only a tiny bit.  :)
[08:30] <Janux> jnc, hi, sorry I was afk, but how do I make it working?
[08:34] <pitti> Keybuk: where are you?
[08:37] <Keybuk> pitti: vibe out
[08:38] <pitti> Keybuk: I was asked by elmo that you are a wanker
[08:38] <Keybuk> I am?
[08:38] <pitti> Keybuk: elmo ... to tell you that ...
[08:38] <pitti> Keybuk: no idea what that is
[08:38] <Keybuk> he's such a charming character
[08:38] <Keybuk> is he actually coming to this bof?
[08:38] <pitti> Keybuk: he just started to go up
[08:39] <pitti> carlos: here?
[08:41] <carlos> pitti: hi
[08:42] <pitti> carlos: you totally confused me, my original desktop proposal was right
[08:42] <carlos> pitti: ok, sorry then...  Seems like you've been at this for awhile. ;)
[09:36] <cc> pitti: ping
[09:37] <pitti> cc: pong
[09:37] <cc> pitti: do you want to add anything to BrandingForDerivatives? kamion is satisfied with it, but just checking w/you
[09:37] <pitti> cc: we reviewed it together, it's fine for me
[09:37] <cc> pitti: excellent. i'll ping you again when i'm done with it
[09:37] <pitti> cc: thanks, great
[09:46] <seb128> cc, what do you want to get changed for GdmRoadmap ?
[09:46] <cc> pitti: go ahead physically move it along; its an EditedSpec now
[09:47] <cc> seb128: scope and use cases (for the new changes); will it affect any migration? like people's current gdm stuff?; what packages besides gdm will be affected (do you need to include anything into main?); any UI requirements (new features must still be accessible, etc...?)
[09:47] <seb128> k, thanks
[09:48] <cc> seb128: ping me again when done (or just add it to my queue)
[09:49] <seb128> k
[10:33] <tfheen> Keybuk: had the time to read udevraces yet?
[10:33] <fabbione> elmo: please -> forum
[10:33] <Keybuk> I'll read it in the BOF :)
[10:34] <tfheen> blah, user.
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: can you please review LanguagePackRoadmap?
[10:35] <JaneW> nice to actually know who you guys are now .. ;)
[10:36] <Keybuk> and nice to know we do change t-shirts?
[10:36] <daniels> JaneW: do you really mean that, or are you frightened and working on your resum now?
[10:36] <Treenaks> daniels: that happened last time, right? :P
[10:36] <fabbione> can somebody ping elmo please?
[10:37] <JaneW> Keybuk: yeah that especially
[10:37] <fabbione> ah here he is
[10:37] <JaneW> Keybuk: except I fear it;s only because you get given free new ones, and get excited to try them on...?
[10:37] <JaneW> daniels: hehehe - maybe...
[10:38] <daniels> JaneW: mmm -- I'm now five shirts up from when I left home a week and a half ago
[10:38] <JaneW> fabbione: he's not anywhere near me.
[10:38] <JaneW> daniels: did you bring a spare suitcase to get them home in?
[10:40] <Lathiat> i didnt even get my linux.conf.au shirt
[10:40] <Lathiat> they didnt get them in until thursday, by the time i asked, they were all gone
[10:41] <daniels> JaneW: nope, my current one can apparently expand to 30% of its size
[10:41] <daniels> JaneW: either that, or I'll start throwing some of the older shirts out :P
[10:41] <JaneW> that would be contract technically
[10:41] <Lathiat> haha
[10:42] <daniels> JaneW: ber, 130
[10:42] <JaneW> 130%?
[10:42] <JaneW> or expand and extra 30%?
[10:42] <daniels> an extra 30
[10:42] <daniels> being able to shrink to a third of its size is a neat party trick
[10:42] <JaneW> ok, at least we are clear on that now
[10:49] <cc> mpt: remember to check MatthewThomasActivity (as it seems thru the wiki you might be thinking you're MatthewPaulThomas (which you are), but you only have an actiivty page without the paul bit)
[10:50] <jiyuu0> is there a command where i can get the path only minus the filename
[10:50] <tfheen> dirname
[10:51] <cc> mdz: Kamion was looking for you earlier (he popped in here); he might've found you i dont know
[10:51] <jiyuu0> thanks i'll give it a try
[11:01] <mdz> cc: if it was more than about an hour ago, he found me
[11:01] <cc> mdz: no idea, time has become a void to me it'd seem
[11:02] <tfheen> cc: please ping me if you have any comments on udevraces.
[11:02] <cc> tfheen: is that in my queue?
[11:02] <tfheen> should be
[11:02] <tfheen> as of five minutes ago or so
[11:03] <cc> tfheen: since you're online, lemme read that..
[11:04] <tfheen> cc: yay, thanks
[11:04] <ogra> cc, for which one ?
[11:05] <cc> ogra: hwdb
[11:05] <cc> ogra: its really interesting btw. i'm half-way thru
[11:05] <ogra> there are three ;)
[11:05] <ogra> heh...
[11:05] <ogra> need input ? i have spare time now
[11:05] <cc> ogra: give me 10 mins, finish with tfheen
[11:06] <ogra> ok
[11:07] <thom> Even when the Canonical employees are factored out (the company seems to have moved its offices to Canberra for the conference), Ubuntu has clearly claimed a significant part of the distribution "market" among Linux developers.
[11:07] <thom> (from LWN)
[11:07] <tseng> wow
[11:07] <tseng> canberra
[11:07] <thom> LCA last week
[11:07] <tseng> oh.
[11:08] <dilinger> offices relocate weekly
[11:08] <jsg_> did LCA go well?
[11:08] <elmo> ubuntu was scarily prevalent there
[11:08] <tfheen> jsg_: yes
[11:08] <Treenaks> elmo: how?
[11:08] <elmo> Treenaks: eh?
[11:08] <Treenaks> 11:08 < elmo> ubuntu was scarily prevalent there
[11:09] <seb128> somebody knows where is jdub ?
[11:09] <tseng> Treenaks: alot of people were using it/ interested?
[11:09] <tseng> seb128: vibe out
[11:09] <seb128> has he planned to move downstair ?
[11:10] <smurfix> tseng: more than half of the panelists IIRC said they're using Ubuntu
[11:10] <smurfix> tseng: The rest mostly Debian, with one lone Gentoo hold-out ;-)
[11:11] <tfheen> seb128: he seems fairly comfy where he's sitting
[11:13] <seb128> tfheen, k, thanks
[11:13] <tfheen> seb128: I could probably throw stuff at him until he goes away, if you really want that
[11:13] <jdub> seb128: pong?
[11:13] <ogra> lol
[11:13] <tseng> tfheen: mentos
[11:13] <tseng> tfheen: go.
[11:13] <seb128> jdub, ah nice
[11:13] <seb128> query
[11:14] <daniels> can someone please throw fruit mentos with the clear plastic tabs at me, very gently?
[11:14] <daniels> i need sugar
[11:14] <Unfrgiven> tseng: lol
[11:14] <daniels> i repeat: very gently
[11:14] <dilinger> i think i'm sitting in the wrong place for this mentos tossing game
[11:14] <tfheen> dilinger: come to vibeout
[11:14] <tfheen> bring mentos
[11:15] <tfheen> go wild
[11:15] <dilinger> tfheen: i am in vibeout
[11:15] <daniels> tfheen: he's *in* vibe out
[11:15] <tseng> right behind you!!!!!ONE
[11:15] <thom> tfheen: HE'S BEHIND YOU!
[11:15] <daniels> a good one point five metres from you
[11:15] <daniels> sniper in the trees!  sniper in the trees!
[11:15] <tfheen> dilinger: then just bring mentos and go wild.
[11:15] <daniels> dilinger: yeah dude, where's the mentos?
[11:15] <daniels> slacker
[11:15] <dilinger> i ate 'em all
[11:15] <dilinger> they were tasty
[11:15] <dilinger> so very tasty
[11:16] <tseng> its too much effort to get back out of this little chill pad
[11:16] <daniels> goddamnit, dude
[11:16] <tseng> to get anything.
[11:16] <dilinger> the a/c rocks
[11:16] <dilinger> i wish i discovered this room earlier
[11:16] <daniels> tseng: i suspect it would be even less effort if you had a cushion in the chair
[11:16] <daniels> do you want it?
[11:16] <tseng> fuck yes
[11:16] <tseng> lets have it
[11:17] <tseng> daniels: cheers
[11:17] <daniels> i live to give
[11:17] <d3vic3> :-D
[11:19] <ctd> those mentos things are addictive
[11:19] <daniels> a little, yes
[11:19] <ctd> I think by the end of the installfest the whole room of them had gone. :)
[11:20] <tseng> and the keep refilling them
[11:20] <tseng> its a healthy crack substitute
[11:20] <daniels> i wonder what the hotel's mentos bill is
[11:20] <ctd> heh
[11:20] <tfheen> daniels: 1 megadollars/day.
[11:20] <tfheen> at least with us around
[11:21] <tseng> 80 megamentos limit
[11:21] <ctd> 2megadollars on monday
[11:21] <tseng> slow down with the throwing
[11:21] <thom> especially when lamont MIRVs them
[11:21] <tseng> its a bunch of 20 something guys sitting in a cold room talking on irc
[11:21] <cartman> ctd: me too
[11:22] <ctd> or I could magically appear in vibeout.
[11:22] <tseng> when they could just yell across the room
[11:22] <tseng> you dont need a feed
[11:22] <lamont_r> tseng: we're _BEING_POLITE_ dammit. :-)
[11:22] <Treenaks> oh no.. another candy-throwing episode?
[11:22] <tseng> lamont_r: you're in another room, dude!
[11:22] <dilinger> tseng is totally downplaying the hot mentos action
[11:22] <ctd> hell, maybe I should convince school to let me attend UDU tomorrow. :)
[11:22] <jsgotangco> ctd, you should :)
[11:22] <lamont_r> tseng: true
[11:23] <tseng> lamont_r: come up, ill throw candy at you
[11:23] <tseng> unless you got sucked into a bof
[11:23] <ctd> If not tomorrow, I'll turn up Saturday. :)
[11:23] <daniels> tseng: DO NOT WASTE IT ON LAMONT.   :P
[12:59] <hypatia> could be
[01:01] <Taliesin`> i didnt know about it until yesterday
[01:03] <ctd> so, earlier discussion has caused me to find the mentos song on my desktop.
[01:26] <cartman> http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120520,00.asp <-- check out
[01:27] <solomarv> sweet
[01:31] <ctd> "became the second fabulously rich guy to literally buy his way into orbit."
[01:31] <ctd> Not what I heard. :|
[01:35] <solomarv> ctd, what have you heard?
[01:44] <ctd> I don't think he really bought his way in from what he said at lca.
[01:44] <solomarv> ctd: he did pay $20 mil, didn't he?
[01:45] <ctd> can't remember that bit, but it wasn't just a holiday or anything.
[01:46] <hypatia> as I understand it, he paid the money, but also underwent the complete training program.
[01:46] <hypatia> which is probably true of all the "space tourists" to date.
[01:47] <Lathiat> yeh he did
[01:47] <Lathiat> i went to his talk at linux.conf.au
[01:47] <Lathiat> the training he went through was rather horrendous :)
[03:04] <jsgotangco> ogra, hi hehehe
[03:05] <ogra> jsgotangco, evil .au server
[03:12] <trulux> heya folks
[03:12] <trulux> pitti: hey!
[03:12] <pitti> hi trulux
[03:12] <trulux> pitti: how's it going? I have many thinks to talk about, regarding the pro. sec. BOF
[03:13] <pitti> trulux: please look at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ProactiveSecurityRoadmap, there might be things that interest you
[03:15] <pitti> night, folks
[03:16] <trulux> pitti: I printed that early in the morning
[03:16] <trulux> oops :(
[03:16] <trulux> fabbione: there?
[03:16] <trulux> ajmitch_: one moment
[03:17] <trulux> ajmitch_: just two things: where did you put the fixed pam packages, and, if you can be reached by phone at UDU, I might call you for telling you about a few details regarding our BOF/UDU politics
[03:17] <trulux> as I can't go there, you might be able to help out
[03:18] <trulux> just on concrete things around the SELinux BOF and the PS one
[03:18] <ajmitch_> email me
[03:18] <jsgotangco> it would be nice to have a mentos food fight before we all go to bed
[03:19] <trulux> ajmitch_: ok, to the gnu.org, right?
[03:20] <ajmitch_> ihug.co.nz may work better
[03:20] <trulux> oh, ok
[03:20] <trulux> if you have your account on fencepost I would just send to localhost ;D
[03:22] <ajmitch_> it is
[03:38] <ajmitch_> night all
[03:58] <souki> hello, where to post bug-report for hoary ?
[04:01] <zul> bugzilla.ubuntulinux.com
[04:02] <souki> zul, thanks, do I need to register?
[04:03] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:03] <Burgundavia> souki, what package?
[04:04] <souki> Burgundavia, firefox
[04:04] <souki> I've noticed a strabge bug with textarea
[04:04] <Burgundavia> ok, that is bugzilla
[04:17] <zyga> hello
[06:11] <Janux> hi, anyone here can help me? my xmms and music player play list cannot show chinese characters, any clue?
[06:12] <Burgundavia> #ubuntu for help
[06:12] <Burgundavia> this channel would be for your patch to fix it
[06:13] <Janux> Burgundavia, someone directed me from there to here, and they even directed me to ubuntu-zh but I didn't get any help from there.
[06:17] <Burgundavia> I would try google for an answer
[06:18] <Janux> Burgundavia, okay.....thanks
[06:18] <Burgundavia> sorry I cannot be of help
[06:22] <jnc> Janux: not sure.  i'll take a look at it if i find the time to do so
[06:26] <Janux> thank you for both of you...:)
[07:18] <enrico> Hello.  Is there some arch/tla/baz hacker I can query for a question?
[07:19] <zul> i think they have their own channel
[07:19] <enrico> right
[07:19] <Lathiat> #voodoo-magic-evil-of-the-dark
[07:20] <Burgundavia> no no no
[07:20] <Burgundavia> #small-children-sacraficed-here
[07:21] <zul> or even #bazaar?
[07:22] <Lathiat> sounds less evil
[07:23] <zul> sounds more right though
[07:23] <Lathiat> true
[08:25] <spo0nman> is there any way to make uml boot into a kernel other than the running one?
[08:25] <zul> huh?
[08:26] <spo0nman> zul, :-?
[08:27] <zul> what was the question?
[08:27] <spo0nman> is there a way to make user mode linux boot a kernel off an installation media?
[08:28] <zul> like a cd-rom?
[08:28] <spo0nman> zul, yes.
[08:28] <zul> i havent seen it done before but check goocle
[08:28] <zul> google
[08:29] <spo0nman> hmm k
[11:04] <trulux> someone here able to do some prelink work?
[11:04] <trulux> I'm fixing the stuff on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ProactiveSecurityRoadmap
[11:06] <Simira> morning Sydnay
[11:06] <Simira> Sydney, even
[11:48] <kay> When will gcc 4.0.0 come into Breezy?
[11:48] <tseng> its already there.
[11:50] <Simira> tseng, always the first one...
[11:50] <Simira> still breakfast, eh?
[11:50] <tseng> Simira: i slept in today, miss
[11:50] <tseng> havent even showered yet
[11:50] <Simira> tseng: so you're not really up yet, heh?
[11:50] <tseng> nope :P
[11:53] <kay> hm.... why is still named gcc-4.0_4.0-0pre11_i386.deb then :p
[11:54] <tseng> erm, we cant upload this week
[11:55] <kay> what?
[11:55] <tseng> what I said.
[11:55] <kay> ok, then please tell me why, is Breezy already frozen ? ;-)
[11:56] <tseng> there is no bandwidth here to spare
[11:57] <kay> wow, that's bad news
[11:57] <Simira> mornin, mdke
[11:58] <tseng> kay: i said 1 week
[11:59] <kay> Sorry if I get on your nerves, but can you say how this comes?
[12:00] <tseng> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/


[05:23] <pitti> Good morning
[05:23] <TheMuso> pitti: Good morning.
[05:23] <pitti> hey TheMuso, long time no see! how are you?
[05:23] <TheMuso> pitti: Very well thanks, yourself
[05:23] <TheMuso> ?
[05:24] <pitti> TheMuso: quite fine, thanks; shepherding distro tests these days, and refining the tools for that :)
[05:27] <TheMuso> pitti: Will you be in Malta?
[05:27] <pitti> TheMuso: yes I will, in the second week
[05:28] <TheMuso> Thats the last week of May right? I'll be there in the last week of May.
[05:28] <pitti> right, me too; 23rd to 30st
[05:29] <TheMuso> Yeah same as me, I'll probably see you around at some point.
[07:46] <darkxst> pitti, are you familiar with the sbuild launchpad stuff?
[07:46] <darkxst> is it possible to add aliases to that will pull in PPA's?
[07:46] <pitti> darkxst: I'm fairly familiar with sbuild, and I know that LP uses it; what do you mean?
[07:46] <pitti> oh
[07:46] <pitti> I saw a G+ post not too long ago about someone who wrote clever hooks
[07:49] <pitti> darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherHalseRogers/posts/24T9xSgTMEF
[07:49] <pitti> darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+St%C3%A9phaneGraber/posts/KPTfpLKKF8J
[07:49] <pitti> those might be useful
[07:51] <darkxst> pitti, yeh I am using the sbuild-launchpad-chroot
[07:52] <pitti> but then again, sbuild hooks are rather simple to write
[07:54] <darkxst> pitti, right, the alias' are defined in a horrible shell script
[07:54] <darkxst> I somehow assumed they would be pulled from lp
[07:59] <pitti> darkxst: yes, that's supposed to download LP's schroot tarballs
[08:06] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:07] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[08:07] <seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
[08:07] <Laney> hallo
[08:08] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:08] <darkxst> pitti, yes it downloads a tarball, but seems the actual apt sources are just generated by lots of awk-ish
[08:14] <mvo> seb128: hi, do you happen to know what "CRITICAL - findToken(): disabled account "ubuntuone" 1 " means in ubuntu-system-settings? I'm trying to add my u1 account on my n4 with utopic and its grayed out :/
[08:14] <didrocks> hey Laney!
[08:15] <Laney> hey seb128 & didrocks
[08:15] <mvo> seb128: it looks just like when I was playing with the u8/mir session on the desktop, not sure though the log message is the same. any hints how I can still add my u1 account on the phone? I need it to to the tests for a new click release
[08:15] <Laney> I'm alright thanks, you?
[08:15] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:15]  * pitti waves to didrocks and Laney too
[08:15] <didrocks> I'm good, thanks! still a little bit cold here, but at least sunny
[08:15] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti :)
[08:15] <Laney> howdy pitti
[08:16] <Laney> we're supposed to have 17° and sun today
[08:16] <Laney> luxury
[08:17] <mvo> hey Laney and didrocks
[08:17] <didrocks> hey mvo!
[08:17] <didrocks> Laney: waow ;)
[08:17] <seb128> mvo, hey, no, try asking mardy?
[08:17] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:18] <seb128> Laney, what happened to the rain?!
[08:18] <Laney> I told its mum that it was being mean to me and it got sent home
[08:18] <seb128> hehe
[08:19] <seb128> I hope it doesn't leave around here
[08:19] <seb128> so far we have sun here as well at least ;-)
[10:28] <mlankhorst> rickspencer3: your boot failure, does it fail to boot or does it not boot into xorg?
[10:29] <rickspencer3> mlankhorst, I think it fails to boot into xorg
[10:30] <mlankhorst> can you try utopic? it has an updated mesa
[10:32] <mlankhorst> from what i can tell your pc should just work, does ssh work?
[10:35] <mlankhorst> if so, try apport-collect -p xorg 1319149
[10:42] <mlankhorst> rickspencer3: for the touchscreen you need qtbase-opensource-src from the sru queue :-)
[10:42] <rickspencer3> mlankhorst, I could not try utopic, as I had a lot of trouble getting the installer o run
[10:43] <rickspencer3> mlankhorst, unfortunately, I won't be able to debug much today, I have calls all day
[10:43] <mlankhorst> ok you can work on utopic, that's fine
[10:44] <rickspencer3> mlankhorst, you are certain it will work utopic?
[10:44] <rickspencer3> I'm not so sure
[10:44] <mlankhorst> neither
[10:44] <mlankhorst> what exactly is the issue?
[10:44] <rickspencer3> mlankhorst, first, uniquity does not load 9 times out of 10
[10:45] <rickspencer3> it stops at the screen with Ubuntu and the dots
[10:45] <rickspencer3> then, when I did get Trusty to install ...
[10:45] <rickspencer3> it booted once or twice, but also several times booted to a black screen
[10:45] <rickspencer3> though I could boot into recovery mode
[10:45] <mlankhorst> ok
[10:55] <rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers!
[10:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, didrocks, and others in Europe who are up o/
[10:55] <Sweet5hark> moin!
[10:55] <rickspencer3> Sweet5hark,
[10:55] <rickspencer3> !
[10:55] <rickspencer3> moin you say?
[10:55] <rickspencer3> [10:56] <rickspencer3>  * Action: rickspencer3 to sip coffee
[10:56] <Sweet5hark> rickspencer3: Its a universal greeting in northern germany. ;)
[10:57] <rickspencer3> Sweet5hark, nice to know!
[10:57]  * rickspencer3 presumes Sweet5hark refers to "moin" and not * to sip coffee
[10:57] <Sweet5hark> indeed.
[10:58] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
[10:58]  * Sweet5hark sips his sugar-and-caffeine based coffee surrogate ...
[10:59] <rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks
[11:01]  * rickspencer3 wonders why seb128 is avoiding him
[11:02] <rickspencer3> must be trying to figure out a way to get the Unity 8/Mir Desktop image off the plans
[11:02]  * rickspencer3 starts escalating the requirements
[11:03] <Laney> must self drive my car
[11:04] <Laney> actually we have some prelimenary images there
[11:04] <Laney> next step is that (IIRC) seb128 was going to boot one of them on his machine and see what more stuff we need to add to get it to work
[11:04] <Laney> then see about getting it built in the normal way with dailies
[11:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, salut
[11:11] <rickspencer3> moin, seb128
[11:11] <rickspencer3> ;)
[11:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, sorry but there was food before you in the line ;-)
[11:12] <rickspencer3> seb128, maybe I should install a web cam in my house so you can see when I am getting coffee and be ready for my jokes in the morning?
[11:12] <seb128> lol
[11:13] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm still amazed you manage to get up that early btw!
[11:15] <rickspencer3> seb128, it's 7:15am
[11:15] <rickspencer3> I live on teh East Coast now :)
[11:15] <seb128> rickspencer3, right, but I saw joining like an hour ago
[11:16] <rickspencer3> hehe
[11:16] <seb128> saw you*
[11:16] <rickspencer3> right
[11:16]  * didrocks notes that seb128 put food before manager. Bad for you review dude!
[11:16] <seb128> didrocks, next reviews are in a year right?
[11:16] <rickspencer3> when I get up I check my email for irc for fires first thing ;)
[11:16] <seb128> but then we are going to have a new manager anyway :p
[11:16] <rickspencer3> lol
[11:16] <didrocks> yeah, you can "too late!" :)
[11:16] <rickspencer3> seb128, knows he can do no wrong in my eyes
[11:17]  * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
[11:17]  * rickspencer3 hugs seb128
[11:18] <seb128> Laney, testing the iso on real hardware and tweaking the seed is still on my todolist
[11:18] <seb128> I didn't manage to get to it after the meeting yesterday, I had accumulated some pings and backlog
[11:18] <seb128> I hope to do that this afternoon ;-)
[11:18] <rickspencer3> seb128, when you do you think we can install that?
[11:18] <rickspencer3> couplle of weeks?
[11:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, boot and test, by Malta
[11:18] <rickspencer3> seb128, sweet
[11:19] <rickspencer3> I'll have my new 11.6 inch dell with me
[11:19] <rickspencer3> we can convert it
[11:19] <seb128> install ... let's see, with some luck that's working without needing to tweak too much
[11:19] <seb128> good
[11:19] <Laney> install should work if live does ...
[11:19] <seb128> which one is that? inspiron 11?
[11:19]  * Laney makes a bold statement
[11:19]  * Laney regrets it
[11:19] <seb128> lol
[11:20] <seb128> Laney, I was thinking the same but I went for the "with some luck" statement ;-)
[11:25] <Sweet5hark> Laney: to boldly go where no unittest has gone before!
[11:25] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I got the inspiron 11
[11:25] <rickspencer3> I was told that it "just works"
[11:25] <seb128> rickspencer3, it does indeed ;-)
[11:26] <rickspencer3> my plan is to be all Unity 8/Mir asap
[11:26] <seb128> rickspencer3, that's the machine I'm testing unity8/Mir on btw
[11:26] <rickspencer3> :0
[11:26] <rickspencer3> so, I will need chromium
[11:26] <rickspencer3> which supposedly already has a Mir backend
[11:26] <seb128> qengho probably knows about that
[11:26] <rickspencer3> and I will need Qt, which supposedly already works :)
[11:26] <seb128> right
[11:26] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm setting up a call so that a few of us can discuss Gtk
[11:27] <seb128> ok
[11:27] <rickspencer3> I'm getting slightly different stories from different people, so I thought we could just work it out on a call quickly
[11:27] <seb128> would it make sense to wait for Malta to discuss it more?
[11:27] <seb128> k
[11:27] <rickspencer3> seb128, no, I would like to have at least a rough plan by Malta
[11:27] <rickspencer3> so we can work the plan at the sprint :)
[11:27] <seb128> k
[11:30]  * darkxst is also wondering what is happening with gtk+
[11:31] <seb128> you mean?
[11:31] <seb128> upstream?
[11:32] <darkxst> seb128, no, I know what is happening upstream! in utopic!
[11:35] <seb128> what do you want to know about GTK in utopic?
[11:40] <darkxst> seb128, what is blocking 3.12 would be a good start!
[11:43] <seb128> it's being tested, we discussed it at the weekly meeting here (logs are available if you are interested)
[11:43] <seb128> the main problem at the moment in GtkHeaderBar use in dialogs
[11:43] <seb128> larsu is working on that to see what we can do to make them work on e.g Unity
[11:44] <seb128> one of the changes required is to update our themes
[11:44] <seb128> Lars said he's going to work on that
[11:44] <seb128> we might need some Unity work as well
[11:44] <seb128> then we need to decide if that's going enough or we need to patch GTK as well
[11:45] <larsu> we definitely need support from unity for border-less windows
[11:45] <larsu> it can't resize them right now
[11:45] <larsu> and we'll need a patch if we want traditional title bars on dialogs
[11:46] <darkxst> seb128, right, I see, can't really help with unity/theming issues
[11:46] <darkxst> but gtk patches are more probable
[11:47] <darkxst> I would actually attend your meetings... if they weren't at a god awful time for me!
[11:47] <larsu> darkxst: what do you mean by "more probable"
[11:48] <darkxst> larsu, that I could probably help there
[11:48] <larsu> ah, right
[11:48] <darkxst> (as long as it doesn't involve theming!)
[11:48] <larsu> you're really afraid of theming ;)
[11:49] <larsu> tbh, most of this work involves theming at least a bit
[11:50] <darkxst> larsu, nope, just find C much more readable than CSS!
[11:51] <larsu> ha, it's almost the same syntax man ;)
[11:54] <darkxst> larsu, syntax is not the problem, it just feels like I end up wasting hours anytime I start messing CSS
[11:54] <darkxst> (same for the couple of websites I have written)
[11:55] <larsu> right, I know the feeling
[11:55] <larsu> it's possible to write good css, but almost noone does it
[11:56] <darkxst> larsu, its possible to write good code in any language, but there are a bunch where no-one does!
[11:57] <larsu> C isn't necessarily a good example of that, though
[11:59] <ogra_> bah
[11:59] <darkxst> I think GNOME C is pretty good in general
[11:59] <ogra_> so i just got a firefox update that told me to restart the browser with a popup ...
[11:59] <ogra_> when i clicked it didnt restart
[12:00] <ogra_> and now trying to start FF i only get a message about FF already running
[12:00] <darkxst> but certainly I have seen horror code in many languages
[12:00]  * ogra_ wouldnt like to lose the ~300 tabs he has open across various windows
[12:00] <larsu> ogra_: firefox should keep those even if it crashes (it shows you a "restore last session?" tab)
[12:00] <larsu> darkxst: fair enoguh
[12:01] <larsu> *enough
[12:01] <ogra_> larsu, well, it shows me "another instance is already running" ...
[12:01] <larsu> ogra_: ya, kill -9 it first
[12:01] <ogra_> i'm looking for a safe way out of that :)
[12:01] <ogra_> ok
[12:01] <larsu> wait.
[12:01] <larsu> don't make me responsible
[12:01] <larsu> if you loose all those tabs
[12:01] <ogra_> hah
[12:02] <ogra_> to late ... now i will blame you :)
[12:02] <darkxst> ogra_, why do you need 300 tabs?
[12:02] <ogra_> oh, wow
[12:02] <ogra_>  3188 ?        Sl   1799:52 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox
[12:02] <larsu> having 300 tabs open is some kind of insanity anyway
[12:02] <ogra_> that did run since quite some time
[12:02] <ogra_> well, i do actual work on my machine :P
[12:03] <larsu> hm, new gtk also loses images in messages dialogs and centers its labels...
[12:03]  * larsu wonders in how far we want to go to revert those
[12:03] <larsu> seb128: ?
[12:03] <ogra_> phew
[12:03] <ogra_> all fine ...
[12:03] <larsu> ogra_: awesome :)
[12:03] <ogra_> it always restores all windows on one workspace though ... but thats something to blame unity for i guess ... not FF
[12:04] <seb128> larsu, the less reverts the better, maybe check with design/mpt, what they don't flag "no no no" can stay?
[12:05] <larsu> seb128: good idea. I'll note those down and schedule a call / session in Malta with mpt
[12:06] <seb128> larsu, looks like mpt should be in Malta the same week as we are, good ;-)
[12:06] <larsu> yep
[12:06] <larsu> \o/
[12:14]  * Laney tries g-t with the transparency patch
[12:15] <larsu> wheeeee
[12:15] <Laney> it's a bit buggy
[12:15] <Laney> it doesn't live update
[12:16] <Laney> you have to toggle "use colours from system theme" to make changes take effect
[12:16] <larsu> ugh
[12:16] <larsu> that's annoying
[12:16] <Laney> yeah probably just some missing signal bindings though
[12:18] <larsu> I can have a look at that later
[12:31] <Sweet5hark> seb128: would there be a chance in Malta for me to present a widely a crazy lunatic vision for Ubuntu?
[12:32] <mlankhorst> libreoffice replacing unity as shell?
[12:34] <seb128> Sweet5hark, to who? the team? Mark? ;-)
[12:35] <ogra_> will you show us the LibO click packages finally ?
[12:37] <Sweet5hark> seb128: the team, not (yet) Mark. It would be about packaging, so foundations would likely be the ones to consider it ultimately ...
[12:37] <seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, I'm sure we can organize that
[12:38] <seb128> humpf
[12:38] <seb128> Laney, would you take your rain back, please?
[12:38] <ogra_> no ! ... keep it in france ... we dont want it up here north
[12:39] <Laney> please put your request in writing and it will be filed and processed in due course
[12:39]  * Laney sets up the special processing area
[12:39] <mlankhorst> more red tape!
[12:40] <seb128> :-(
[12:41] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: hah, actually, it will most likely say click-packages are not the solution as they only solve a subset of the problem. ;) The idea goes much deeper, but might solve issues on a more fundamental level -- but it would be really something for the long run.
[12:41] <ogra_> Sweet5hark, well, the phone image will eventually take over the desktop
[12:42] <ogra_> i woudl actually expect us to move away from debs over the next few years
[12:42] <ogra_> (for endusers that is)
[12:43] <ogra_> using image based updates on the desktop (which means readonly rootfs) etc etc
[12:43] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: yeah, the phone image might be a starting point of what I had in mind. And also yeah: debs are not part of that way to deploy anymore.  ;)
[12:43] <seb128> ogra_, that's going to be challenging
[12:43] <seb128> ogra_, did you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-March/001856.html ?
[12:44] <ogra_> seb128, why ? just drop debs
[12:44] <ogra_> yes
[12:44] <seb128> ogra_, if we "just drop debs" we don't have an usable desktop anymore
[12:44] <seb128> we need to find a way to convert those to clicks first
[12:44] <ogra_> we just need to leave the old cruft behind ... use debs for building images, give them to developers that run in rw mode and perhaps to server people
[12:44] <seb128> ogra_, except if you don't care for libreoffice, firefox, chromium, gimp, inkscape, etc
[12:45] <ogra_> for the rest just make the desktop identical to what we have on the phone today
[12:45] <ogra_> seb128, right, then you switch your image to writable mode and use it like you did before
[12:46] <seb128> I though that was not supported?
[12:46] <ogra_> for the typical desktop user the image based approach works better ...
[12:46] <seb128> "typical"
[12:46] <ogra_> it is not supported in the specific image design we use on the phones
[12:46] <seb128> I guess you mean "if we include libreoffice, firefox, etc in the base image"?
[12:47] <ogra_> if you have an actual readonly partition instead of a bunch of loop mounted img files you can indeed do it in a supported way
[12:47] <ogra_> seb128, no, these should be clicks
[12:47] <ogra_> built from plain upstream ... without distro hacks we have to care for etc
[12:47] <ogra_> no more maintainer scripts ...
[12:48] <ogra_> system upgrades done in minutes instead of hours with predictable installations etc
[12:48] <seb128> right
[12:48] <seb128> well, we "just" have to convert our archive to clicks
[12:49] <asac> if we feel we are facing this question: we could reach out to firefox and libreoffice and i am sure with some moderate convincing power they might be happy to feed into our clickstore if that gives them the ability to ship what they want
[12:49] <ogra_> nah
[12:49] <Sweet5hark> seb128, orga_:  are you both in Malta? from what I see you are both wrong ;)
[12:49] <ogra_> we only have to convert the UI apps to clicks
[12:49] <seb128> Sweet5hark, lol
[12:49] <seb128> ogra_, it's still a large stack of apps
[12:49] <ogra_> seb128, sure
[12:50] <ogra_> thats why i said "within the next years" :)
[12:50] <seb128> right, fair enough
[12:50] <seb128> asac, and sure, engaging with upstream to ramp that up is going to be useful/needed
[12:50] <asac> i think the ones that have upstreams that distribute binaries its not that hard. for those that only distribute sources and are not into the binary business like gnome, its indeed a bit more tricky
[12:51] <ogra_> why would you use binaries ?
[12:51] <seb128> do we have a good story on "how to get your app published in the click store" for upstreams?
[12:51]  * didrocks sees clouds now… wonder if it's because of juju or seb128 sending them my way now…
[12:51] <ogra_> just use the source ... we have it already ... you just need to make the archive build a click package alongside
[12:51] <asac> seb128: yes, just upload :)
[12:51] <Sweet5hark> asac: using upstream binaries is insane for anything nontrivial
[12:51] <asac> seb128: i know mozilla has been waiting for this ability for ages
[12:51] <ogra_> seb128, yeah, just push your locally built binary
[12:52] <asac> mozilla etc. have infrastructure to validate that their build works on ubuntu
[12:52] <asac> etc.
[12:52] <asac> they dont have many users, but if they would have thea bility to really distribute their stuff alongside our distro
[12:53] <asac> they surely would even invest more to make their experience shine by default on ubuntu
[12:53] <asac> anyway, its clear we probably need a deb story in the click/syustem image world somehow. afaik mvo and foudnations are working on that
[12:55] <ogra_> we dont :P
[12:55] <ogra_> we need to make sure that if you switch away from system image you can use debs
[12:55] <asac> ogra_: we dont?
[12:56] <didrocks> one source tree to rule them all :)
[12:56] <ogra_> imho we dont need any deb support in system-image setups
[12:56] <didrocks> but I have already made the point multiple times :p
[12:56] <seb128> didrocks, well, the source tree is orthogonal to the apps distribution problem
[12:56] <asac> ogra_: well, so guess we could say that and pair it with the ability to convert things into your own system image
[12:56] <asac> to re-lock down
[12:56] <asac> :)
[12:56] <asac> lie what was on canoni-tech
[12:57] <ogra_> fi you have system-image you go with clicks ... if you want debs you switch to readwrite ... and cant go back
[12:57] <seb128> didrocks, having one unified source tree doesn't give you libreoffice packages in the click store
[12:57] <ogra_> but then debs need to be properly supported indeed
[12:57] <asac> disable system image, use apt to fiddle, snapshot a system image, easy distribute :)
[12:57] <didrocks> seb128: you should the subdirectory built binary and project that to the installed system
[12:57] <asac> ogra_: the part of the story where you cant go bad just doesnt feel good enough for our standards :)
[12:57] <ogra_> asac, and how would that work with the server side generated deltas ?
[12:57] <asac> sounds like a technical detail
[12:57] <asac> :)
[12:57] <ogra_> lol
[12:58] <asac> i am not saying that story is fully developed
[12:58] <ogra_> well, the design wont allow that
[12:58] <asac> but its one vector to maybe look at this
[12:58] <ogra_> my vector is that 80% of the users should be fine with s-i
[12:58] <asac> yes, for thtat i agree :)
[12:58] <ogra_> and the other 20 will happily just go with apt-get dist-upgarde
[12:58] <asac> actually 95% at least
[12:58] <ogra_> and stay there
[12:59] <ogra_> we just need to make sure that both work fine and that the switch works properly
[12:59] <ogra_> i wouldnt provide a switch to go back ..
[12:59] <asac> maybe its the right way to look at it
[12:59] <asac> buit lets see; the more we think the better our solutions get
[13:00] <Laney> larsu: I uploaded it to ppa:laney/experimental if you want to take a look
[13:00]  * Laney biab
[13:00] <asac> and we have just started thinking :)
[13:00] <asac> hehe
[13:01] <seb128> ogra_, well, your 80% of users being happy assume that we have clicks for libreoffice, chromium, firefox, gimp, pidgin, etc?
[13:01] <asac> seb128: of course
[13:01] <asac> seb128: we want t store full of useful killer apps
[13:01] <asac> open source, proprietary, games etc.
[13:01] <ogra_> seb128, yes, which means our builders need to roll clicks alongside the debs
[13:02] <seb128> that seems like a pre-require
[13:02] <asac> how they get into the store and who is doing that is kind of secondary and technical detail i think.
[13:02] <seb128> before using system images for desktop
[13:03] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure anyone will be happy about rebooting their desktop for daily security updates
[13:03] <mdeslaur> I sure hate as hell when I need to reboot my phone for updates :)
[13:03] <mvo> ogra_: building them alongside seems to be tricky given that e.g. the file layout will have to be different for clicks (different sysconfdir for example)
[13:03] <ogra_> mvo, static builds ;)
[13:04] <mvo> ogra_: right, but even then /etc will be different, plugin loading location, support files (like images)
[13:04] <ogra_> they will all be relative to the click root
[13:04] <mvo>  ./configure with the right options can do that, but it would be a build for click and a build for deb
[13:06] <ogra_> build a static deb ... dpkg -x into the click root ... roll a click package from that root ... done
[13:06] <mvo> indeed, its totally doable, but "build alongside debs" sounds nicer than "repackage them"  :)
[13:06] <mvo> but why would we use deb in this case? we could as well skip this step
[13:06] <ogra_> but we still want to provide the deb
[13:07] <ogra_> and we build it already
[13:07] <ogra_> the click creation should just happen alongside
[13:07] <pitti> tjaalton, mlankhorst: is the provisional mesa MRE still a requirement from somewhere? we reviewed it during the last TB meeting
[13:07] <mdeslaur> ogra_: uhm, no, we're not going to start building everything statically
[13:07] <ogra_> indeed it could just build it differently or in aa separate way
[13:07] <mvo> so debs would be for older distro releases? or why would we keep building it in this future?
[13:08] <ogra_> mvo, for people wanting to use a traditional setup
[13:08] <pitti> tjaalton, mlankhorst: it provably caused at least one regression in a stable update (bug 1134974) which was never triaged, and in general it's by and large impossible to regression test that on all the world's hw
[13:09] <ogra_> mvo, the idea is: everyone gets a system-image install ... people that want to still use debs switch that over to an apt-get based design with a single command ... they cant go back but still use the system like debian or the former ubuntu ... so you please developers
[13:09] <seb128> pitti, aren't those updates required for new hardware enablement sometimes?
[13:09] <pitti> seb128: well, that's the tension -- breaking existing systems vs. enabling new ones
[13:09] <pitti> so I'm asking where that request comes from (OEM team, etc.?)
[13:09] <pitti> and whether these could rather live in e. g. backports
[13:10] <seb128> we can't really have an LTS that doesn't run on newer hardware though
[13:10] <pitti> well, we can't really have an LTS which breaks underneath you either :)
[13:10] <seb128> indeed, a tricky balance as always ;-)
[13:11] <pitti> so we either a way to do proper regression testing (but I think that's practically impossible) or confine the impact to new installations
[13:11] <pitti> of course if we put it into the lts-backports pacakges or into the -backports pocket you'd have the same problem one update later
[13:11] <tjaalton> pitti: yes, they're needed
[13:12] <pitti> so if it's e. g. enough to backport them for the 14.04.X releases, the -lts-backport approach seems better
[13:12] <pitti> (even though it still doesn't guarantee regressions)
[13:12] <pitti> so the TB is leaning towards revoking the MRE until we get a better approach here
[13:13] <pitti> at least a plan how to catch regressions (and at the *very* least, triage incoming regression reports)
[13:13] <pitti> tjaalton: by whom? for what targets?
[13:13] <pitti> ah, meeting time, will catch up later
[13:16] <pitti> (just an invalid noise from hangouts, still listening)
[13:28] <tjaalton> I tried to find the regression bug from the mesa bug list but couldn't
[13:28] <tjaalton> and the noisy list is only 177 bugs long
[13:31] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: do mesa updates get testing on our whole lab of certified hardware before they are pushed out to a release? (just curious)
[13:32] <mdeslaur> ie: how are we making sure we don't regress certified hardware from oems?
[13:32] <tjaalton> we use piglit
[13:33] <tjaalton> and used wider testing only when doing a major release update post-ff
[13:34] <tjaalton> haven't received a bug via oem projects due to an update
[13:35] <mdeslaur> hrm, I gather most oem projects use intel hardware
[13:35] <tjaalton> and blobs
[13:35] <tjaalton> on nvidia/amd
[13:35] <tjaalton> because they are sooo much easier
[13:35] <tjaalton> really :)
[13:35] <mdeslaur> hehe
[13:36] <tjaalton> still, upstream point releases get tested by others too, we're not in a void
[13:36] <tjaalton> and it's mostly intel updates in them anyway
[13:37] <tjaalton> hmm I lied
[13:41] <tjaalton> so we've done 11 point-release sru's, and got one regression that fell through the cracks?
[13:41] <tjaalton> which probably got fixed by the next point-release
[13:45] <tjaalton> pitti: by me for instance who's waiting for some of the broadwell diff in 10.1..10.2 to get in the next point-release
[13:45] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: well, the regression that fell through the cracks was worrisome
[13:45] <tjaalton> which bug was it?
[13:45] <tjaalton> couldn't find it
[13:46] <pitti> bug 1134974 (see above)
[13:46] <seb128> (thanks to whoever got the bot back here)
[13:47] <tjaalton> ah so it didn't even have severity set
[13:47] <pitti> yeah, as I said it wasn't triaged at all
[13:47] <tjaalton> well it's a hybrid so dunno
[13:51] <tjaalton> still, 12.04.2 got the same update and most machines that used it were IVB based, so I'd say this was something that went wrong on his install only
[13:51] <tjaalton> and I've been using IVB on my desktop for two years now, since it was beta
[13:52] <tjaalton> we'd know if it was something widespread
[14:02] <Sweet5hark> Hey guys, its really simple: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1253620/comments/77 so who of you will SRU all dependencies of glib on precise for once?
[14:02] <Sweet5hark> seb128: ^^ volunteering?
[14:24] <Sweet5hark> seb128: *sigh* the joke just got serious.
[14:24] <ogra_> stop making jokes !
[14:25] <seb128> Sweet5hark, sorry, was in an hangout, reading backlog
[14:25] <seb128> urg
[14:25] <Sweet5hark> seb128: you have mail ;)
[14:25] <seb128> saw that!
[14:26] <Sweet5hark> seb128: can we agree on ogra_ SRUing all of gnome?
[14:26] <seb128> wfm
[14:27] <ogra_> thats scriptable ...
[14:28] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: the SRU team will likely script back though ...
[14:28] <ogra_> yeah, thats what i fear
[14:28] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: ... a drone that finds and kills you with a spoon.
[14:28] <ogra_> gnome is dead anyway :P
[14:28] <ogra_> (until the QML re-write)
[14:29] <seb128> ogra_, it's not friday yet!
[14:29] <Laney> I wish boring trolling was dead
[14:29] <ogra_> seb128, ah, damned ... just noticed
[14:29] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: well, "gnome" was a simplifcation. actually its all that depends on glib-2.0
[14:29] <Laney> all that uses those macros, at worst
[14:30] <seb128> I don't understand
[14:30] <seb128> http://ubuntu-codesearch.surgut.co.uk/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE
[14:30] <seb128> returns neither gvfs nor libreoffice
[14:31] <Sweet5hark> seb128: is that searching on precise?
[14:31] <seb128> it doesn't return glib either
[14:31] <seb128> Laney, codesearch is busted!
[14:32] <seb128> Sweet5hark, http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE seems better
[14:32] <Laney> it's re-running on utopic now
[14:32] <seb128> "re-running"?
[14:32] <Laney> yes
[14:32] <seb128> means rebuilding an index/currently incomplete ?
[14:33] <Laney> I guess it could explain it, could also be buggy though :(
[14:33] <Sweet5hark> seb128: ... which shows on the first page that this macro is used in macros, so a simple search wont do ...
[14:34] <seb128> Sweet5hark, one solution might be to put a "fixed define" in gvfs to fix that specific issue
[14:34] <seb128> though I'm unsure how likely that's going to create interaction issues with other component using the wrong macro
[14:36] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, but that might break as client code of gvfs migh do the swap too: swap twice in a broken way => no error, swap correctly once (in fixed gvfs), incorrectly again (in lib linking against gvfs) => busted
[14:36] <seb128> right
[14:41] <seb128> Sweet5hark, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-March/180325.html doesn't bring confidence
[14:43] <Sweet5hark> yep. When I read that back in the days, I felt for Stephan. Imagine debugging a networking issue vs. windows shares from LibreOffice down to glib ...
[14:43] <seb128> yeah
[14:46] <Sweet5hark> seb128: what we maybe could do, is putting these in officialish PPA and see if there are any issues for 6 months or so ... but even then. The audience (and thus test coverage) for that PPA would be very small (only people hitting this problem on a LTS, while there is a newer LTS already) ...
[14:47] <seb128> Sweet5hark, that might be a good enough solution for those users though
[14:47] <seb128> which would be the best way to make everyone happy
[14:52] <jagannath> hi can any body help me
[14:52] <jagannath> ??
[14:55] <ogra_> was that a trick question ?
[15:03] <kenvandine> mpt, where do you stand on adding custom ringtones and notification sounds in system-settings?  Could we get something on the wiki about that?
[15:04] <kenvandine> mpt, like using the content picker to select sounds from your music library, or handle downloaded ringtones
[15:45] <tjaalton> I have two firefox profiles running, and when trying to open a link from thunderbird I get a prompt asking which profile to start, it doesn't let me open the link on an open profile
[16:26] <didrocks> qengho: hey, in case you don't really remember our discussion, but now, I got multiple confirmation that the "lost tab" bugs is fixed in 36
[16:26] <didrocks> qengho: I hope it's even fixed in 35 so that your work for getting the fix in chromium will be easier…
[16:27] <qengho> didrocks: Yes, thanks.
[16:28] <didrocks> yw
[16:31] <seb128> qengho, do you know when 35 is becoming stable?
[16:35] <qengho> seb128: Probably end of this month.
[16:36] <tedg> Laney, How about "ubuntu-unicorn"! :-)
[16:36] <ogra_> ubuntu-desktop-ng
[16:36] <ogra_> :)
[16:37] <tedg> omg-ubuntu
[16:37] <ogra_> ubuntu-da-fjutscha
[16:39] <Laney> ubuntu-me-harder
[16:46] <kenvandine> ubuntu-desktop-omg
[16:47] <seb128> ubuntu-finally-no-compiz
[16:47] <seb128> ;-)
[16:47] <ogra_> ++
[16:47] <seb128> no wm either though atm :/
[16:48] <seb128> unity8 on a desktop feels like a tablet UI
[16:50] <Laney> very early days
[16:50] <ogra_> just bribe the filemanager app guys into adding a desktop :)
[16:57] <stgraber> we could also call it ubutnu, that'd be in line with what we use for our pre-release services :)
[16:57] <stgraber> (just to confuse the hell out of everyone)
[17:03] <Laney> :D
[17:05] <seb128> Laney, thanks for the work on bootstraping and sending that email btw ;-)
[17:37] <seb128> Sweet5hark, what happened to your normal you?
[17:37] <Sweet5hark> seb128: normal me being "Sweetshark"?
[17:37] <seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah
[17:38] <seb128> Sweet5hark, you are also not on the Canonical IRC it seems
[17:38] <Sweet5hark> seb128: did a "do-release-update" to trusty on the pandaboard where that was running, and the machine didnt come up with a sshd :/
[17:39] <seb128> :-(
[17:39] <seb128> Sweet5hark, anyway, real question for you ... ;-)
[17:39] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yes?
[17:39] <seb128> Sweet5hark, what do you see as your focus on lo for u-cycle?
[17:40] <seb128> the packaging changes you mentioned, keeping up with upstream, bugfix I guess
[17:40] <seb128> GTK3/Mir work maybe?
[17:40] <seb128> Sweet5hark, I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the team is doing this cycle ;-)
[17:40] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, thats roughly the agenda. plus (but thats more upstream) getting more unittesting and CI in there ..
[17:41] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[17:41] <seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks ;-)


 "Reilly Brogan:  you will..." <- So it appears that 6.3.0-4.4 was uploaded a couple of days ago. It appears unchanged from when I previously looked at it and the LSM/Apparmor patches are still not present (unless I'm looking at the wrong place).
[23:07] <reillybrogan> So my question about whether or not this is intentional still stands


[02:03] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T179: Lubuntu 21.04 Artwork] guiverc (Chris Guiver) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T179#3947
[02:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T180: Cleanup Ubuntu Wiki] guiverc (Chris Guiver) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T180#3948
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[06:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/571/
[06:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/571/
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[07:23] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/439/
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[20:41] <wxl> does anyone remember for how long we've had the self check running on isos?
 it was during the 20.04 development cycle.
[20:42] <wxl> that's what i thought
[20:46] <wxl> @kc2bez: is it within your capacity to update the support chart as shown at the bottom of /downloads?
 If I had another chart I could.
 /downloads@lubuntu_bot
 oops
 lolz
 lubuntu.me/downloads @teward001
 i know
 i clicked and it spoke it was an accident ;)
[21:19] <wxl> shoot maybe we need to re-create it
[21:19] <wxl> how did we do this for 20.04?
[21:21] <wxl> maybe in rOLDART?
[21:21] <wxl> yep https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/oldart/browse/master/release%20cycle/cycle.svg
[21:22] <wxl> maybe we need another repo for artwork unrelated to the distro itself
 I think someone modified the one on this page https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
 webart ?
 /downloads@lubuntu_bot
[21:23] <wxl> yeah or something like that
 yeah, maybe. All those matrix/telegram/irc icons should go in it.
 @teward001 's nifty s3 storage would be just the ticket for the backend.
[21:25] <wxl> well meanwhile if we can just get that svg edited that would be lovely


[00:15] <guiverc> looked in gdoc history; .. before pasting to gdoc I work in local file but its stored in non-backed up folder so can't see history.   issue #503 had a softpedia article in blogo (not news) before going to summary writers... it isn't there in final though
[05:11] <guiverc> re: dropped #503 article - reason found; in comments I recommended it be dropped due url that referred to 17.04 as Wily Werewolf  .. another agreed and dropped it..


[13:14] <sgmoore> So I have been bug triaging like mad and most of the old ones are coming back, don't use, please close. But one wants support on Bionic!?!?! Do I have to support this?
 I would say not, as it's 18.04 and despite being LTS it's beyond even LTS support Window. The user would probably get better mileage by upgrading.
 Yea 18.04 is EOL.
 Well for normal support, they would then need to pay Canonical for more support outside of that.
 We could do with a Kubuntu Support partner, that would help us here (re @ahoneybun: Well for normal support, they would then need to pay Canonical for more support outside of that.)
 Well sure if there are funds but unless it's a company I don't think it's worth it.
[13:22] <sgmoore> Well I am willing to support for funds lol, but we don't have it. Yet.
 Raising my hand on behalf of Altispeed :) (re @Rick_Timmis: We could do with a Kubuntu Support partner, that would help us here)
 Actually that's an excellent idea. We just need to figure out a mechanism for that (re @IrcsomeBot: <sgmoore> Well I am willing to support for funds lol, but we don't have it. Yet.)
 We could have a common paid support option then offload to a company based on capacity?
 Yes, something like that. Or perhaps a Bounty style thing (re @tsimonq2: We could have a common paid support option then offload to a company based on capacity?)
 Needs a Ticket on Invent, so we can work it into a plan
[13:24] <sgmoore> Bounty style would help people like me.
 I'll get a ticket up on Invent Board for this, leave it with me
 I've posted a news update to kubuntu.org, https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-community-update-march-2024/
 And linked it into an update post on Discourse. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/exciting-updates-and-opportunities-with-kubuntu-join-us/43169
 And linked it into an update post on Discourse. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/exciting-updates-and-opportunities-with-kubuntu-join-us/43169
 Love it
[19:18] <valorie> re: paid support, we had an option for that in the far past
[19:19] <valorie> afaik we made not a cent, so unknown if anyone ever used it, and the company sort of disappeared
 It'll need to managed better than in the past, and I'd like to see the benefits coming back to Kubuntu
 I feel like Kubuntu Focus is the support part
[19:22] <arraybolt3> ^ that
 Yes, that certainly a sensible pathway
 Agreed.
[19:26] <mmikowski> sgmoore @Rick_timmis @ahoneybun valorie: We have all the infrastructure in place for paid support including ticket systems, a very well researched SLA and contracts, and even paying customers.
[19:26] <valorie> kool
 How about a Kubuntu Focus first approach and Altispeed as backup if it grows so quick it hits capacity? :)
[19:27] <mmikowski> Better to leverage all that investment and infrastructure to feedback to the project than to reinvent the wheel. For example, we now use Zendesk tickets.
[19:29] <mmikowski> tsimonq2: Sure. The bottom line is Kubuntu needs to get more commercial to bring in more funds. We've spent 4 years making Kubuntu commercial, so we have tons of experience and infrastructure in doing just that.
[19:29] <mmikowski> I think there's a real opportunity there, for everyone involved.
[19:30] <mmikowski> Not to get wealthy, but to pay those who contribute so we can focus on the best possible products and disto.
[19:33] <mmikowski> We are also actively engaged with potential investors, and will be doing more as we continue to ramp up for 24.04  + Meteor Lake.
[19:54] <valorie> I would appreciate having this discussion in the KC ml, and seeing actual proposals from Kfocus & Altispeed
[19:55] <valorie> like: what are you willing to do for potential customers? What do you need from us? What funds will flow back to the KC treasury?
 Oof ML, it would be better if this was in Matrix.
[19:56] <arraybolt3> though the Kubuntu Matrix rooms still haven't really been officialized
[19:56] <valorie> the previous agreement was much too amorphous and in fact, I never saw one
[19:56] <valorie> our KC ml is official
[19:56] <arraybolt3> if they were though, it would be easy enough to make a Kubuntu Council room on Matrix
 ML is dated and I can never use it as I have no way to reply with a kubuntu or ubuntu email address.
[19:57] <arraybolt3> valorie: Mailing lists are going away soon, at least the ones we know about. (Reasoning can't be made public and I don't have all the details, but the sooner the MLs are moved off of, the better.)
[19:57] <arraybolt3> *at least the way we know them, I mean
[19:57] <valorie> I would be there if matrix was supported in my client, but it is not
 I imagine Discourse is killing ML.
[19:58] <valorie> and I really do not want One More Application to One More comms channel
[19:58] <arraybolt3> Perhaps a Discourse post could be used for this somehow? (ahoneybun: Yeah, it kind of is :P)
[19:58] <valorie> our ML is on Launchpad
[19:58] <arraybolt3> Right. Those are dying.
[19:58] <arraybolt3> Both the LP and lists.ubuntu.com ones.
[19:59] <arraybolt3> (as I understand it anyway - part of this I learned from Simon, another part from Mauro)
[19:59] <valorie> there is a reason that MLs have lasted so long - reliability and search of the past discussions
[19:59] <arraybolt3> but anyway, they do still exist, so I guess we technically can use them for now.
[20:00] <valorie> the lists.ubuntu.com are user & devel and both of those *could* move to Discourse
[20:00] <valorie> as much as I dislike discourse
[20:00] <valorie> discourse search is rather weak
[20:00] <mmikowski> I haven't read back though all the messages, but I don't think we are in competition Altispeed. More people to provide support is good. Going through an official Kubuntu commercial arm is also good.
[20:01] <valorie> since lists are text, it is quick & easy
[20:01] <mmikowski> As for the offering, that's all in place.
[20:02] <arraybolt3> fwiw I also am a mailing lists person :P I gave some pushback against the MLs going away initially.
[20:03] <valorie> Babylonia clay tablets can still be read
[20:03] <valorie> text is pretty awesome
[20:08] <arraybolt3> Anyway, for the support stuff, I think since Kubuntu Focus is already doing this, it seems like it would probably be good to use them as part of things. I like the Altispeed as backup idea but think that it would be better for KFocus and Altispeed to work together rather than presenting separate offerings in some way.
[20:10] <valorie> in that case, they can work it out privately
[20:11] <valorie> but I would like to see a concrete proposal to the Council of what they want  - I assume a link on the website and some publicity - and what they will provide
[20:12] <valorie> and what they will give back to the Council
[20:12] <valorie> I don't think we need a contract, but we should at least have an agreement with clear outlines
[20:13] <valorie> we are all friends here with the same goal
[20:19] <mmikowski> Valerie see https://kfocus.org/wf for many very detailed support articles.


[08:26] <alan_g> alf_: anpok - any ideas for a "better interface"? https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity-mir/alpha-greeter/+merge/204069/comments/476680
[09:01] <anpok> hm they could decorate the exsting policy, all they need is just selecting alpha when needed and supported - thats effectively just find_if
[09:01] <anpok> like in the translucent server example
[09:05] <duflu> On the issue of translucency... I recently discovered that making a client translucent was a big enough hit to rendering time that it could trigger clone mode frame drops, sometimes with a single client. Alpha blending is still relatively expensive, even on a Haswell desktop
[09:05] <alan_g> That's a bigger hit than I was expecting
[09:05] <anpok> duflu: how big was the client?
[09:05] <duflu> anpok: 1920x1200
[09:06] <anpok> oh
[09:06] <duflu> alan_g: It was mostly due to the clone mode bug I have a fix proposed for. After that's resolved, full screen blending has no visible performance hit
[09:07] <alan_g> Excellent
[09:07] <anpok> but still it means that the blending of one output took longer than the update rate of the other output
[09:07] <anpok> maybe we should allow clients to provide opaque rects together with the buffer
[09:08] <duflu> Kind of. The issue with the clone mode bug is that we potentially have zero (or very little) rendering time at all
[09:08] <anpok> alan_g: i could image a better interface
[09:09] <anpok> alan_g: something like select( Requires(Exactly(1280x768), Try(OpaqueBuffer));
[09:09] <anpok> bbl
[09:10] <alan_g> anpok: worth discussing with greyback & mterry when you're back?
[09:10] <anpok> alan_g: duflu: I would like to add something like a generic report->trace_time_span("string_id", { start,duration} );
[09:11] <anpok> but still wondering where and how to visualize
[09:11] <anpok> alan_g: i think so..
[09:12] <anpok> duflu: but the translucent greeter is translucent everywhere..
[09:12] <anpok> duflu: maybe we should use the screencast feature for that
[09:12] <duflu> anpok: I feel that measuring time spans is best hidden inside the report implementations. The interfaces should always just be begin... and end...
[09:13] <duflu> Not least because the Null report should be Null
[09:13] <alan_g> anpok: I'm not sure that interface is the easiest to use - usually you'd want something like "Trace trace(report, "ID");
[09:13] <duflu> AFK, wireless kbd issues
[09:13] <duflu> wfASJL:
[09:13] <anpok> duflu: agreed but, we dont have that many possible measure points - maybe that is enough - and i just have issues following the code flow.
[09:13] <duflu> fscas
[09:15] <anpok> and i wonder if we could make that not affect the performance at all without instrumenting the build
[09:17] <duflu> anpok: That's the point of defaulting to a null report with minimal parameter passing :)
[09:17] <duflu> Eek, I forgot what the old keyboard was like
[09:23] <alf_> duflu: @async-page-flips, I don't get where I am mistaken... after we schedule a page flip we draw to a buffer that is still potentially being scanned out (since we don't wait for the page flip to complete). We can't touch a buffer that is currently on screen after a page flip, before the next page flip occurs, scanning out is not an instantaneous process.
[09:25] <duflu> alf_: Preparing for EOW, but let me see if I can find an answer before that
[09:37] <duflu> alf_: Mesa/EGL/GBM still has separate front and back buffers (obviously). The existence and rendering of the back buffer is kind of implied. But after we have called gbm_surface_lock_front_buffer we hold the locked buffer until the flip has definitely completed. This prevents the buffer from being recycled and rendered to as a back buffer while it's visible.
[09:38] <duflu> Aside from anything else... if you do accidentally render to the scanout buffer you will see ugly tearing
[09:38] <duflu> At least I do
[09:39] <duflu> But if you can prove it wrong, that would be appreciated.
[09:40] <duflu> Plus, I know the algorithm is complicated. Even *if* it is bug free, I don't expect us to digest and approve it quickly
[09:40]  * duflu runs away
[10:49] <sil2100> alf_: hi! Any luck with the mir unit-tests hanging up on armhf?
[10:50] <alf_> sil2100: no... I can't reproduce them locally at all, and I have no idea what could be hanging so consistently in the builders
[10:54] <sil2100> Troublesome...
[10:54] <sil2100> hm hm
[14:14] <kgunn> sil2100: i also build lp:~mir-team/mir/trunk-0.1.4 natively and ran unit tests just fine
[14:15] <kgunn> sil2100: can we gain access to the calxeda machines ? don't know what else to do
[14:16] <kgunn> sil2100: curious, i used image 155 that was in devel-proposed....is that a valid configuration to try and replicate what's happening on the calxeda ?
[14:17] <sil2100> kgunn: the thing is that we have no idea what triggered that, as it was passing fine earlier - who knows if those wouldn't pass now... did you guys check the code for some obvious race conditions?
[14:17] <sil2100> kgunn: we tried poking people about access to the devices, but it seems it's not as easy as we thought
[14:18] <kgunn> sil2100: are the logs still out there ? (i don't think so as silo 005 got reused)
[14:18] <kgunn> sil2100: we've spent loads of time before christmas cleaning up tests
[14:19] <kgunn> sil2100: so doubt there'd be anything "obvious"....but if there are some logs that might indicate a particular test that would be interesting
[14:20] <sil2100> kgunn: I think the logs are still there, but there was not much useful logs - just that it was hanging on, I think, the 3rd unit test
[14:20] <kgunn> sil2100: do you know what changed ?? that could have possibly made the unit test start to fail ?...e.g. if it was passing on tuesday...what went into the build between now and then ?
[14:20] <sil2100> kgunn: nothing, the PPA was in a clean state, so the problem had to be there earlier I guess? Let me find the logs
[14:21] <sil2100> kgunn: it started hanging up here https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-005/+build/5533752
[14:21] <kgunn> sil2100: thanks
[14:22] <kgunn> sil2100: hang on....i thot you said mir was failing...that's unity-mir
[14:22] <sil2100> Ah, wrong link!
[14:22] <sil2100> One moment
[14:22] <sil2100> ;)
[14:23]  * sil2100 ashamed
[14:23] <sil2100> kgunn: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-005/+build/5535453
[14:23] <kgunn> sil2100: no worries...i stay permanently "ashamed"  :)
[17:14] <kgunn> sil2100: you still there ?
[17:14] <kgunn> sil2100: any chance we can get a silo ?
[17:15] <kgunn> sil2100: we've got a potential fix for the calxeda unit test hang
[17:16] <sil2100> kgunn: !
[17:16] <sil2100> kgunn: still here :)
[17:16] <sil2100> kgunn: let me clean up some silos though
[17:16] <kgunn> sil2100: thanks and no problem...
[17:16] <kgunn> i know its getting late there
[17:26] <kgunn> bbiab
[17:39] <sil2100> kgunn: ok, so I think it won't be so easy... it seems platform-api is right now blocking the slot, so until it's not released we won't be able to fill mir in