[06:52] <id_u> hello
[07:06] <popey> AlanBell, does your machine have nvidia?
[07:06]  * popey is looking for someone on 12.10 with nvidia
[07:12] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:22] <diplo> stegMorning all
[07:22] <diplo> -steg :P
[07:22] <diplo> popey: o/
[07:22] <diplo> Although an old card
[07:22] <diplo> Also have one at home with a 8800gtx
[07:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning.
[07:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: My desktop has a NVIDIA Corporation G96 [GeForce 9500 GT] but is currently on 12.04
[08:06] <AlanBell> popey: intel all the way
[08:12] <bigcalm> Ahoy peeps :)
[08:19] <diplo> morning bigcalm
[08:19] <bigcalm> Hi diplo
[08:19] <bigcalm> Quiet morning
[08:21] <jacobw> hi
[08:24] <diplo> yeah, and I'm actually working?!?!?!?
[08:24] <diplo> :P
[08:24] <bigcalm> I would like to be sleeping
[08:30]  * Laney is memtest86+ing after seeing some weird errors
[08:30] <Laney> nowt come up yet
[08:31] <JamesTait> Morning all! :)
[08:36] <SuperMatt> anyone a good drawer in here?
[08:36] <bigcalm> I hold pants and socks very well I think
[08:37]  * Laney 's sides split
[08:37] <bigcalm> Poor man
[08:37] <SuperMatt> ba-dum-tish
[08:37] <Laney> got a needle and thread in that drawer?
[08:38] <SuperMatt> anyway, if anyone in here can draw, I though it'd be rather neat to create some kind of Ubuntu Superheroes named after athe different release names
[08:41] <diplo> OK, ideas.. "Unable to install grub in hd0"
[08:41] <diplo> executing grub-install hd0 failed
[08:41] <SuperMatt> do you have an hd0 or an sd0
[08:41] <SuperMatt> ?
[08:42] <diplo> It's a mixture of sd*/hd* devices, but / + /boot on /sda
[08:42] <diplo> and the /srv partition is on a raid5 hardware raid setup
[08:53] <kjalil> diplo: it's hd0,0 I believe to install to the MBR if that's what you are trying to do?
[08:54] <diplo> hmm I think I may no the cause!
[08:55] <bigcalm> Can anybody with experience of Gearman sing its praises?
[09:04] <czajkowski> yay another bug getting fixed a bitlate mind you for 12.10 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1053862
[09:21] <bigcalm> Oh my god
[09:21] <bigcalm> Hayley's brother just donated a grand to our wedding fund
[09:22] <mattt> GO HAYLEY
[09:22] <mattt> wait, who is haley
[09:22] <mattt> *hayley
[09:22] <bigcalm> My fiancée
[09:22] <diplo> a grand!!?!?!?!?
[09:22] <bigcalm> That's what I thought
[09:23] <bigcalm> Not quite sure how to say thank you enough
[09:23] <mattt> bigcalm: a cheeky beer will do
[09:24] <mattt> or bear hug
[09:24] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:24] <diplo> well paid guy? or single with no kids?
[09:24] <mattt> bigcalm: when you getting married?
[09:24] <diplo> My brother could afford it as well, but it's not the sort of thing he'd do :)
[09:24] <diplo> And to carry on from mattt, where's all our invites!
[09:24] <bigcalm> diplo: paralysed from the waist down and pretty much bed-ridden
[09:25] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:25] <mattt> INVITE INVITE
[09:25] <popey> Just one invite will do
[09:25] <popey> for the whole channel
[09:25] <bigcalm> He says that he has thins money doing nothing so wants to help us out
[09:26] <bigcalm> popey: we're getting closer to picking a venue. Should be a good time :)
[09:26] <bigcalm> And a DJ I think
[09:26] <bigcalm> Photographer is sorted ;)
[09:27] <bigcalm> There's just a bazillion other things to sort out now
[09:29] <mattt> yeah, it's a stressful time
[09:29] <diplo> It's good fun, just let the women sort it out with there mums :)
[09:29] <diplo> Worked for me anyhoo
[09:30] <bigcalm> I've told Hayley that I'm happy to just turn up on the day ;)
[09:30] <bigcalm> Yay, laser cat toy and ir ip webcam have arrived :)
[09:30] <mattt> hahaha
[09:30] <mattt> that'd be a bad idea
[09:31] <mattt> "so like, why is this thing costing us 50k?"
[09:31]  * bigcalm shudders
[09:31] <shauno> that was my strategy.  I don't think it's a terrible one either
[09:32] <bigcalm> She's really pleased that I'm going to build a photo booth
[09:33] <czajkowski> photo boths are fun
[09:33] <czajkowski> mate had one at the wedding in august
[09:33] <mattt> bigcalm: see if she'll be really pleased about you making the wedding dress
[09:33] <czajkowski> it printed off 2 copies
[09:33] <bigcalm> mattt: haha
[09:33] <czajkowski> one we put into a scrap book with a message and one you got to keep
[09:33] <czajkowski> add in some weird hats aka nick popey collection and you're sorted
[09:36] <bigcalm> czajkowski: it's going to be along those lines :) Hats, feather scarves, fake 'tashs, etc. Not 100% sure if I'll have it print out on the day, but photos will be selectable to be included in a group album as well as being sent to the peeps being photographed
[09:36] <czajkowski> cool
[09:37] <czajkowski> I think tc said her final bill for the wedding inc all her flights to and from canca to bring the 5o fthem back and over was €15k
[09:38] <czajkowski> and that was for 250 guests
[09:38] <mattt> holy crap
[09:39] <bigcalm> Ouch. I'm affraid that guests will need to travel to Shropshire by their own means :S
[09:39] <mattt> bigcalm: rent us a mega bus
[09:39] <bigcalm> o.O
[09:39] <constrictor> good morning
[09:41] <czajkowski> bigcalm: no that was that for bride/groom and her 3 kids
[09:41] <czajkowski> not for others silly
[09:41] <mattt> that's still a lot of money :(
[09:41] <czajkowski> alhtough a big double decker bus did arrive into the drive way on the next day for the BBQ
[09:41] <czajkowski> mattt: cheaper in UK by a long shot for weddings
[09:42] <mattt> czajkowski: yeah, i guess you're right
[09:42] <mattt> 250 is a lot of people too
[09:42] <mattt> and amazing they got that many people when it's out of the country :)
[09:42] <czajkowski> mattt: yup true bt convert 15K to sterling it's not as bad
[09:42] <bigcalm> We're looking at a £5ishK budget and 100ish gusts. Doing a lot ourselves will hopefully work out
[09:42] <czajkowski> mattt: the wedding was in ireland
[09:43] <czajkowski> the Uk is a lot cheaper than ireland
[09:43] <czajkowski> shopping beer, eating out etc
[09:43] <bigcalm> We're rather set on having a hog roast :D
[09:44] <bigcalm> And I'll choose a cask of local ale to be on the bar
[09:44] <mattt> czajkowski: oh, i thought canca was cancoon ;P
[09:44] <mattt> however you spell that
[09:44] <czajkowski> mattt: ah she lives in canada and flew back to ireland for the wedding
[09:46]  * bigcalm ponders writing a web rsvp service. Or should I get people to confirm by post?
[09:47] <shauno> I'm off to a wedding next month, where the rsvp was all done with google docs.  and surprisingly tactfully
[09:47] <czajkowski> aye we did that for the wedding was handy
[09:48] <czajkowski> http://www.johnandtarawedding.com/
[09:50] <czajkowski> anyone looking to buy a new laptop: https://twitter.com/matthewrevell/status/258502326241857536
[09:52] <popey> bigcalm, people like invitations in the ost
[09:53] <popey> and post
[09:53] <bigcalm> popey: thought so.  I shouldn't waste any time wasting time with it
[10:20] <davmor2> popey: is try to beat the government for surveillance Mez start worrying when you hear Elvis on call waiting queues then you know he has your phone tapped too
[10:20]  * bigcalm goes to make a cuppa
[10:21] <daubers> hmmm... managed to break inkscape
[10:27] <daubers> I really should automate all the management documentation rubbish
[10:35] <bigcalm> For the cost, I'm really surprised of the build quality and mounting bracket
[10:35] <AlanBell> bigcalm: mounting bracket is standard tripod thread too
[10:36] <bigcalm> Yep, very nice indeed
[10:37] <bigcalm> Now I need to find a use for it ;)
[10:37] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/pad need to bring the recycling bin in
[10:39] <bigcalm> AlanBell: you need to do something with the hole left by the 80s plant
[10:40] <bigcalm> You've got mail
[10:40] <diplo> delivery for AlanBell !
[10:40] <bigcalm> He really shoved that through
[10:40] <diplo> :P
[10:40] <bigcalm> AlanBell: you need a wider slot
[10:40] <diplo> Get to work on that front lawn as well!
[10:44] <popey> do you worry someone will steal the camera?
[10:45] <AlanBell> yes, the front is a bit of a mess
[10:46] <AlanBell> it is quite stealable, however, when I get zonealarm set up then I will have a video of someone approaching the camera to nick it
[10:48] <AlanBell> it isn't very conspicuous where it is, and I don't think people would approach a camera with a view to finding out how easy it is to unplug and unscrew
[10:49] <popey> nice that it comes with fittings
[10:51] <AlanBell> if anyone wants to dig into how the windows ocx file does two way audio that would be interesting
[10:52] <popey> ali1234 would be good at that ;)
[11:00] <AlanBell> it had crossed my mind that the easiest way to figure it out would be to get one delivered to ali1234 :)
[11:00] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:09] <popey> hmm, cat has lots of toys but chooses to play with an (unused) tampon instead
[11:09] <bigcalm> Oh my
[11:09] <popey> indeed
[11:11] <Laney> bah
[11:11] <Laney> I wonder how many times on average I go around alt-tab before realising the thing I want is on another workspace
[11:12] <Laney> i'd say 6-7
[11:13] <popey> CTRL+ALT+TAB \o/
[11:13] <Bassetts> Does Daviey no frequent irc anymore?
[11:14] <popey> yes, he does
[11:14] <DJones> Heh, wife got a new phone last week, she's had it since Friday and has decided she's taking it back, really doesn't like it, most of the apps she's tried either don't work, or don't work as she expects
[11:14] <popey> DJones, android?
[11:14] <Bassetts> Ah, just not around?
[11:14] <Laney> huh, ctrl-alt-tab, who knew?
[11:14] <DJones> popey: Blackberry, she's going back to android
[11:14] <popey> hah
[11:15] <Laney> default that pls
[11:15] <popey> also ctrl+alt+shift+tab to go backwards, for those with many fingers to spare
[11:15]  * popey points laney at JohnLea
[11:15] <Laney> i dislike how 'show desktop' acts on all workspaces
[11:16] <Laney> who wants to test G+ hangouts on my new webcam?
[11:16] <Laney> I may be nude
[11:17] <bigcalm> I fear that more than one Iain in one conversation might break things
[11:18] <popey> ok!
[11:18] <popey> http://popey.com/hangout
[11:18] <popey> :D
[11:18] <Laney> wait it's not coming up
[11:18] <Laney> LINUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
[11:19] <bigcalm> And my browser decided to log me in with a google apps account that isn't signed up to g+. Note that there is no way to switch accounts on that page
[11:20] <Myrtti> I got an update on Galaxy Nexus yesterday and sadly found out that the Google's Shazam-like widget has been removed :-(
[11:21] <shauno> the one that always catches me is trying to login to gmail with my non-gmail acct. if you switch accounts there, it tries to get my gmail address to sign up for gmail
[11:21] <Laney> yay
[11:21]  * mgdm has just handed a Precise install to his brother
[11:21] <mgdm> I wonder how he'll get on, he's not used Linux for a while
[11:21]  * popey likes the handy whiteboard there
[11:22] <popey> overwhelming urge to have pot noodle for lunch
[11:23] <bigcalm> Today's lunch will be the same as yesterday's: chicken super noodles with a good dose of sweet chilli sauce
[11:24] <mattt> bigcalm: takeaway?
[11:24] <popey> mmmm "super" noodles
[11:24] <bigcalm> mattt: ?
[11:24] <mattt> bigcalm: is that instant noodles you cook at home?  or something you buy from take-away?
[11:24] <bigcalm> mattt: I will take them away from its packet and the microwave I guess
[11:24] <mattt> oh
[11:24] <bigcalm> mattt: are you from the UK?
[11:25] <bigcalm> +not
[11:26] <mattt> not originally, been here about 10 years tho :)
[11:26] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[11:26] <mattt> part of my problem is that i don't read thoroughly when i switch to irc :)
[11:26] <bigcalm> Super Noodles are as common as Pot Noodles...
[11:26] <mattt> i see chicken, noodles, and sweet chilli sauce :)
[11:27] <bigcalm> Powdered chicken flavour
[11:28] <bigcalm> That is likely to be suitable for vegetarians
[11:28] <mattt> mmmmmsg
[11:29] <Bassetts> Does anyone know a way of contacting Daviey that ensures he will see my message?
[11:31] <popey> email him
[11:31] <popey> or pm him, he will see it
[11:32] <DJones> That was a nice smooth upgrade to 12.10, only issues I can see are that the thunderbird launcher icon doesn't appear to flag up new emails and the desktop doesn't always show new files until nautilus/home folder is opened, other than that its been the best upgrade I've had
[11:32] <popey> \o/
[11:33] <popey> HAPPY BIRTHDAY IKONIA!
[11:35] <davmor2> happy birthday ikonia
[11:35] <constrictor> DJones: Is it just me or is it harder to create bookmarks in nautilus than it was in 12.04 I remember some drag and drop functionality
[11:35] <DJones> constrictor: Not somethingh I've tried
[11:36] <popey> i cant do it drag/drop in 12.04 either
[11:36] <davmor2> constrictor: what you mean ctrl+D ?
[11:38] <davmor2> constrictor: in 12.04 and 12.10 it was a case of menu → bookmarks → add bookmark or cntl+D
[11:50] <CaMason> the 12.04 livecd has a duplicate-source issue. Anyone know a quick fix so I can install something?
[11:52] <CaMason> actually nevermind, I commented out 2 lines in sources.list and its now working
[11:52] <mgdm> I was just typing that :P
[11:53] <mgdm> anyone got a suggestion for a cheap-ish SSL certificate provider that isn't GoDaddy?
[11:53]  * mgdm has forgotten the last one he had
[11:53] <CaMason> now to figure out where I enable the universe sources..
[11:54] <CaMason> got it. Hidden in software centre
[11:58] <constrictor> davmor2: I am almost certain that I could drag a folder from the main view into the tree view to create a bookmark
[12:03] <davmor2> constrictor: nope I think that was back when gnome wasn't removing every piece of functionality they could from nautilus
[12:22] <Myrtti> O
[12:23] <Myrtti> I'm only just upgrading my sisters machine to 12.04.1 - a bit scary.
[12:24] <popey> directhex, you appear to be talking to yourself on twitter :)
[12:25] <popey> mgdm, startssl?
[12:25] <directhex> popey, occasionally i click reply on the wrong post in an argument.
[12:25] <popey> heh
[12:26] <directhex> it boggles the mind that anyone would look at those reddit comments and not think "holy excrement"
[12:26] <popey> well indeed
[12:27] <AlanBell> I don't get reddit at all
[12:28] <directhex> every subreddit is its own community. /r/linux is the worst of the neckbeards
[12:28] <mungojerry> i'm not sure i understand the rage at the comments
[12:28] <AlanBell> horrible UI, obnoxious people, plus the Ubuntu Community team and Barak Obama
[12:29] <mungojerry> i think he just said , hire good people.
[12:29] <directhex> some subreddit communities are very nice
[12:29] <mungojerry> don't hire minorities because they are under-represented, instead hire good people and treat them equally on merit
[12:29] <mungojerry> isn't that what he's saying?
[12:29] <directhex> mungojerry, fine on paper. never happened once in real life.
[12:29] <CaMason> what's the safest way to copy of the contents of my OS partition to a new disk (and preferably convert to ext4 at the same time) ?
[12:30] <AlanBell> mungojerry: in an obnoxious way, yes
[12:30] <directhex> mungojerry, he's saying he's actively angry at the idea of a day trying to encourage women to contribute to free software, because clearly the 2% engagement rate right now is as it should be when hiring on merit
[12:30] <directhex> CaMason, rsync?
[12:30]  * AlanBell is hiring
[12:30] <AlanBell> we have an equality and diversity policy now
[12:31] <CaMason> is rsync really the best option for the OS partition?
[12:31] <AlanBell> all people, including those not called Alan, are welcome to apply
[12:31] <popey> CaMason, boot to live cd and use gparted
[12:31] <popey> it has a copy and paste function
[12:31] <mungojerry> i'm all for eqaulity and diversity, but i'm not up for my employer insisnting on my sexual preferences when it shouldn't be an issue
[12:31] <CaMason> popey, yeah I was thinking that might be safest
[12:31] <directhex> studies have shows than 2 identical candidates for a job, totally identical other than gender, the man will get the job offer - and for more money than a woman.
[12:31] <mungojerry> hmm
[12:31] <directhex> that's just fact.
[12:32] <mungojerry> "a job"
[12:32] <CaMason> It's a virtual machine, DiskA is 40GB, but only 10GB used, I want to copy it into DiskB with only 20GB space. So I suppose I'll need to resize the partition first
[12:32] <popey> CaMason, what kind of VM?
[12:32] <CaMason> virtualbox vdi
[12:33] <umshanker> i have issue with 12.04 with bash binary
[12:33] <popey> there are tools to do that
[12:33] <mungojerry> does vbox do thin provisioning?
[12:33] <popey> you can clone a disk easily
[12:33] <CaMason> popey, yeah I can clone, but I don't want every partition on the disk
[12:33] <popey> clone then delete?
[12:34] <CaMason> possibly, but the target partition is the last partition. Ideally, I want sda3 to be sda1 on the new disk, starting at the beginning, with a dynamic VDI. Currently it's in a 200GB fixed vdi
[12:35] <mungojerry> directhex, you referring to tech jobs or generally?
[12:36] <CaMason> I think the best option will be create new dynamic (50GB), copy-paste partition over, resize down to 20GB logical, zerofree, compact, then clone again to a new 20gb logical
[12:36]  * daubers just drove an electric car
[12:36] <mungojerry> my employer has stuff like "we welcome applications from under-represented people like enthnic minorities and women", but that shouldn't mean you discriminate in favour of them
[12:37] <CaMason> boot it up and fix grub, convert to ext4, e4defrag
[12:37] <directhex> mungojerry, i think the studies generally cover "skilled" jobs, i.e. anything requiring an actual qualification. but tech is particularly bad for being unavailable to women, and nothing in the world moreso than free software except maybe "male model"
[12:37] <CaMason> zerofree again, then vboxmanage --compact
[12:37] <mungojerry> i'd rather hire a normal person than a neck beard
[12:37] <CaMason> then copy to my new SSD. Should be all tidy then
[12:38] <directhex> mungojerry, when you're in a position of privilege, anything which doesn't reinforce that privilege is not actually undeserved.
[12:38] <AlanBell> recruiting is non-trivial, doing it properly doesn't happen by accident
[12:38] <daubers> mungojerry: I'd hire anyone who could do the job and fit into the existing team
[12:38] <directhex> mungojerry, saying "anyone can apply" doesn't make it true, and giving a job to a woman doesn't mean she got it over a more deserving man
[12:38] <CaMason> interestingly, all my hires came from Twitter
[12:38] <AlanBell> you have to examine that approach for bias
[12:39] <directhex> privilege leads to immense levels of casual bias
[12:39] <mungojerry> i've hired many people over the years, and there is bias, and whole panels may have bias.
[12:39] <AlanBell> "I recruit from my technical circle of contacts" -> "I have no idea why all the people I recruit look like me, it just happened that way"
[12:40] <AlanBell> it is a positive feedback loop
[12:40] <mungojerry> bias towards UK workers rather than flying in somebody from romania/greece etc
[12:40]  * Myrtti feels weird reading the conversation
[12:40] <mungojerry> UK workers is not racism though
[12:40] <directhex> here's an excellent example of privilege you'd never have thought of: sticking plasters, like for when you cut yourself, are generally available in blue, clear, or caucasian-flesh-tone. ever seen a sticking plaster in black flesh tone?
[12:41] <CaMason> at least we're not racist toward smurfs
[12:42] <AlanBell> wonder what colour plasters smurfs who work in kitchens use
[12:42] <mungojerry> like these guys? http://www.stickyskin.co.uk/Stickyskin.co.uk/Welcome_to_Stickyskin.html
[12:42] <Myrtti> sometimes reading commentary in Daily Mail or similar I feel like I should just hide away under a rock and die there
[12:42] <directhex> mungojerry, like those guys. why can't i buy those in boots or tesco? why don't big-brands like elastoplast make them?
[12:43] <mungojerry> i see your point, although it's not exactly like white people have bright pink skin either
[12:43]  * mungojerry hasn't used a plaster since he was a teenager
[12:43] <CaMason> are plasters really designed for flesh-matching aesthetic?
[12:44] <davmor2> AlanBell: legal requirement for food hygiene and the like, IE it has to stand out
[12:44] <mungojerry> there's thomas the tank engine ones in my drawer
[12:44] <mungojerry> asian guy came wearing a miffy one. maybe the reason is that nobody is actually bothered
[12:45] <CaMason> I'd rather have a camp bright pink one
[12:45]  * diplo has all sorts of plasters at home to keep the kids happy
[12:45] <mungojerry> i'm a left hander, and as such, most things are designed for righties (85%)
[12:45] <mungojerry> e.g. oyster reader , door handles
[12:46] <mungojerry> numeric keypads
[12:46] <CaMason> I know how you feel. I drove through france and couldn't reach the ticket machines :'(
[12:47] <CaMason> unclip belt, climb to other window, pay monies, climb back across and buckle up
[12:47] <CaMason> camned barrier drops before I can drive off.
[12:47] <diplo> mungojerry: lefty here as well.. only real issue I have is some forms etc where the stuffs tight to the left
[12:49] <mungojerry> i think thats off the point though. i would look to hire a good person, and while i want them to speak/understand/write good english, and do good techie stuff. their name or gender doesn't come into it, ....except
[12:49] <mungojerry> i do consider people on a personal basis whether they fit with the dynamic of the team..more of a personality thing though
[12:51] <mungojerry> there's one situation i worked that was very bad for women due to massive chauvinism. although i would eplain the work environment  in interview if it came up, rather than make decision for her.
[13:30] <CaMason> hm, I ran boot-repair which has installed grub2 to the correct disk, but it's not picking up any kernels. I just see `grub>`
[13:32] <Seeker`> mungojerry: never noticed a problem with door handles myself
[13:34] <mungojerry> Seeker`, well usually they are mirrored on the reverse side :)
[13:34] <mungojerry> but card readers etc are usually positioned for right handers, and it's a juggle trick to extract from my left hand pocket with my left hand and swipe it across the body
[13:35] <Seeker`> never noticed a problem with those either :P
[13:35] <Seeker`> (am left handed btw)
[13:49] <lazarus_> hi
[14:07] <SuperMatt> hurm, is there any application which allows me to specify a bunch of servers and log files and just allows me to click it and see the log?
[14:07] <mungojerry> are the logs actually residing on one server
[14:07] <SuperMatt> so I can just click on one server, click on syslog and it shows me
[14:07] <SuperMatt> yup
[14:07] <SuperMatt> oh
[14:07] <SuperMatt> no
[14:07] <SuperMatt> on all the different servers
[14:08] <mungojerry> no, since you're supposed to use syslog
[14:09] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[14:09] <SuperMatt> can't really argue with a no
[14:09] <mungojerry> unless you allow apache to read them
[14:09] <mungojerry> which would be bad and naughty
[14:10] <SuperMatt> gotcha
[14:10] <mungojerry> syslog+ logstash is a good combo
[14:12] <SuperMatt> I think I'm just asking for something a little silly
[14:13] <mungojerry> it might be called password-less ssh :P
[14:14] <SuperMatt> I was just hoping I could get something a little more graphical
[14:18] <SuperMatt> oh now that's interesting
[14:18] <SuperMatt> gedit ssh://user@blah/var/log/blah works
[14:18] <mungojerry> nautilus will let you browse it too
[14:19] <CaMason> SuperMatt, I never knew that
[14:19] <SuperMatt> indeed
[14:21] <SuperMatt> I'm really just looking for a nicer way to view my logs
[14:23] <mungojerry> logstash
[14:30] <kirrus> SuperMatt: have you seen splunk?
[14:31] <SuperMatt> I have
[14:31] <SuperMatt> I'm kinda looking for a more lightweight alternative to it
[14:32] <SuperMatt> well, I wasn't originally, I was looking for an app where I could just save a list of servers and logs and it'll just display the whole thing with one click
[14:43] <SuperMatt> I think what I want needs to be written, but it'll have to go at the bottom of my list
[14:57] <mattt> SuperMatt: have you seen loggly?
[14:59] <SuperMatt> cloud solution?
[15:01] <mattt> SuperMatt: yeah :(
[15:34] <SuperMatt> ideally, I would like a log viewer that looked like this: http://ubuntuone.com/7YmbRuC6OpZbR2isty7Hgm
[15:34] <SuperMatt> that was a really quick mockup of what I want
[15:36] <diplo> SuperMatt: So get a rsyslog server to compile all your logs
[15:36] <diplo> I believe there used to be a log viewer built in ?
[15:36] <diplo> Maybe hack the code for that ?
[15:36] <SuperMatt> there is
[15:37] <diplo> Or use one of many perl/python parser scripts and dump to a db ?
[15:44] <mgdm> logstash might be overkill, but would do that
[15:48] <arossDOTme> With the "Free Software Only" boot option. Is the kennel linux still contaminated with non-free blobs?
[15:51] <diplo> I watched a vid on that a while ago mgdm, looked really good
[15:52] <popey> arossDOTme, not sure
[15:52] <popey> probably
[16:10] <jacobw> where's the FS only boot option?
[16:13] <davmor2> SuperMatt: are they Ubuntu servers, if so use landscape :)
[16:15] <SuperMatt> how much does landscape cost?
[16:15] <arossDOTme> The FS boot option is in a menu in the livecd bootloader menu.
[16:16] <AlanBell> jacobw: hit space when you see the vitruvian man then enter to select language, then F6 and it is at the bottom of the list
[16:16] <SuperMatt> wait, they're not all ubuntu :(
[16:18] <SuperMatt> I guess I'm just going to have to write my own app. quickly should rock it
[16:20] <ahayzen> Hi, anyone know how to close the Unity.MusicPlayer in Python 3 correctly as I am getting errors back the second time I open? or is #ubuntu-unity a better place to ask? Many thanks, Andy
[16:23] <SuperMatt> might be better off in #quickly
[16:23] <SuperMatt> are you using quickly?
[16:23] <ahayzen> no
[16:23] <SuperMatt> if not, I look like a fool
[16:23] <SuperMatt> ok
[16:23] <SuperMatt> I have no idea then :P
[16:23] <ahayzen> lol
[16:24] <ahayzen> the error basically says that it has already been exported, but running .unexport() doesn't seem to resolve the issue
[16:26] <bigcalm> I've updated /etc/timezone to be 'Europe/London'. The server is updating its clock with ntp. How do I update the system to report the correct time? It's still get to 11:26 CDT
[16:29] <AlanBell> anyone want a free Ubuntu DVD? http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[16:29] <AlanBell> and is everyone all set for the party tomorrow? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
[16:29] <gord> have you tried going round the pubs with them, yelling about dvds?
[16:29] <SuperMatt> YEAH I AM
[16:29] <ahayzen> gord, nice idea :)
[16:29] <SuperMatt> can't decide if I'm going to wear my quantal T or not
[16:30]  * AlanBell observes a lack of popey at the party
[16:30] <SuperMatt> tsk
[16:30] <SuperMatt> see you tomorrow dudettes
[16:30] <SuperMatt> peace.
[16:30]  * SuperMatt drops the microphone and struts off stage right
[16:30] <ahayzen> gord, wonder what would happen if I did that in the Oxford clubs ;)
[16:32] <popey> AlanBell, hard to justify it when I'll be away for two weeks
[16:32] <AlanBell> fair enough
[16:32] <AlanBell> we will have fun without you
[16:34]  * AlanBell wonders about taking the camera
[16:35] <AlanBell> nah, too hard
[17:07] <jacobw> http://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
[17:07] <jacobw> oh my lol
[17:11] <arossDOTme> popey:thanks
[17:17] <danfish> evening all
[17:18] <danfish> AlanBell: any good documentation sites for that camera? Mine arrived this afternoon :)
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> danfish: the wireless thing from last week?
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> what's the brand/model?
[17:27] <danfish> MartijnVdS: yup. Chinese brand - haven't got it to hand as had to do back to work.
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> ah
[17:29] <danfish> http://www.easyntech.com/ProductsShow.aspx?id=470#.UH7q7m_R6oY <- this one I think
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> ●Certified by Microsoft activeX
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> !
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> "Embedded Linux OS" -- time to get the source :)
[17:31] <danfish> heh - I'm sure it's fully open source and documented ;)
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> danfish: never hurts to ask for source
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> JPT3815w according to AlanBell's G+
[17:32] <danfish> tx
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> apparently, there's firmware here: www.rewont.com/web/firmwaredownload.html
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> but I can't connect to that because of a DNS error
[17:35] <jacobw> there's firmware at a dns label that doesn't exist?
[17:37] <danfish> works from here - <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:37] <jacobw> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=d4da438e8557806d&resid=D4DA438E8557806D!128&parid=D4DA438E8557806D!123
[17:37] <jacobw> it works
[17:37] <jacobw> oh, that's the link for their <IP_ADDRESS> device firmware
[17:38] <danfish> been given some real work to do. Laters
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> I love how their firmware is on skydrive
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> danfish: it works from my VPS, but at home I get NXDOMAIN
[17:52] <AlanBell> firmware version is higher on the device
[17:53] <AlanBell> but the downloads are interesting
[17:53] <AlanBell> web stuff is uncompresed
[17:54] <AlanBell> the firmware has linux.bin at the start
[17:55] <AlanBell> I suspect it may be possible to tweak the binary firmware to turn on telnetd
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I suspect there's a simple serial port inside the device waiting to be tapped ;)
[17:56] <AlanBell> probably, I did take it apart
[17:56] <AlanBell> mostly looking for an SD card
[17:57] <AlanBell> there isnt one
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2012/04/09/#20120409-name_that_uart
[17:58] <AlanBell> the arm chip is what you are squeezing if you overtighten the mounting btw
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/hardware/port.serial#finding.serial.console
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ARM? Not MIPS?
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> most wifi socs are mips
[17:59] <AlanBell> arm
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> noice
[17:59] <AlanBell> wifi is an attached module
[18:00] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Noice where yam from the bluack countray
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: "noyce, adj. - nice if said by a dutchman or an aussie. cockney or phoenetic pronunciation"
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> according to urbandictionary
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> <- Dutch
[18:03] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I have never heard a Cockney use the term Noice,  Black Country and Brummies use it all the time though
[18:07]  * MartijnVdS found this twitter account.. it tweets Dutch sayings/proverbs/etc. into _very bad_ English (translates words one at a time and chooses the worst possible one, basically)
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/DutchSpeakwords/status/258628352959709185
[18:08] <jacobw> including 'speakwords'?
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: "proverb" in Dutch is "spreekwoord" ("speak word")
[18:08] <jacobw> i see
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> and "in de gaten houden" ("keep in the holes") means "to keep an eye on".. as you probably guessed from the picture
[18:09] <jacobw> " Do normal then do you all crazy enough"
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: yes! It's the worst translations.. sometimes he (it?) doesn't even translate and uses a homophone from English instead ("al" means "already" not "all") :)
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> it's funny if you know both languages really
[18:12] <jacobw> :)
[18:53] <Myrtti> so, the upgrade went pretty well apart from some glitching when in Ubuntu sessions - XFCE4 looks so far ok and unglitchy
[19:18] <andylockran> hey gusy
[19:18] <andylockran> is there a way to connect to a tty1 of a machine once you're logged in on ssh
[19:19] <andylockran> I've got tty1 displayed on a remote screen and I'd like my typing to be displayed there
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> Curious... why isn't Searchmonkey a default Ubuntu software package? [not exactly too big too to fit... & far from useless!]
[19:22] <andylockran> man, I am "loving" this :)  control4 system in the house, with my ubuntu xbmc setup with it too :)
[19:22] <fooooool> lo.  i made a script executable and it runs fine on xubuntu.  i've copied it to an ubuntu machine and it complains that there aren't permissions to run it.  it has +x and correct owner, so what could be happening?
[19:23] <fooooool> can't even autocomplete when trying to run it as an executable in a console, as if it was a text file
[19:23] <popey> SuperEngineer, never heard of it
[19:23] <andylockran> as geeky as I am; this means I can potentially have my nagios screen showing the overview screen when I'm having a shower :)
[19:23] <andylockran> (got a TV built into the bathroom wall)
[19:24] <Nafallo> andylockran: ubuntu release countdown!
[19:24] <fooooool> heh
[19:25] <andylockran> Nafallo: probably the coolest /away
[19:25] <andylockran> lol - it's a shame it's so last minute :)
[19:25] <andylockran> could put up a screen and take a pic though
[19:25] <andylockran> :p
[19:25] <Nafallo> andylockran: no no. no pics of you in the shower!
[19:26] <Neoti_Laptop> LOL... nagios in the shower... now theres a new one .... hehe
[19:26] <fooooool> so starting with the basics, can someone confirm that this is "not supposed to be happening"?
[19:26] <Nafallo> andylockran: IRC with releaseparty scrolling by! ;-)
[19:26] <andylockran> fooooool: check your path :p
[19:26] <andylockran> echo $PATH
[19:26] <fooooool> i'm in the path
[19:26] <fooooool> ./fileiwanttorun
[19:26] <andylockran> ls -l fileiwanttorun
[19:27] <fooooool> -rwxr-xr-x#
[19:27] <fooooool> user and group both me
[19:27] <fooooool> can't do ./fil<tab>
[19:28] <fooooool> surely there is nothing else to it? :P
[19:29] <andylockran> what's the #
[19:29] <popey> filesystem mounted noexec?
[19:29] <fooooool> # was typo :|
[19:29] <popey> what if you type "file fileiwanttorun"
[19:29] <fooooool> popey, nope
[19:29] <fooooool> a /usr/bin/php5 script text executable
[19:30] <popey> nope?
[19:30] <SuperEngineer> popey: seriously, never heard of Searchmonkey? it's in the package list, it works, it's simple
[19:30] <fooooool> to mounted noexec
[19:30] <popey> whats the first line of the file fooooool
[19:30]  * SuperEngineer suspects popey is pulling one's leg
[19:30] <popey> no SuperEngineer
[19:30] <fooooool> #!/usr/bin/php5
[19:31] <fooooool> which exists
[19:31] <fooooool> ;)
[19:32] <popey> what if you run /usr/bin/php5 ./fileblahblah
[19:32] <andylockran> fool - send me the file (via a pastebin) if you can
[19:32] <fooooool> i'm thinking maybe gremlins or supernatural phenomena?
[19:32] <fooooool> popey, yup, that runs it
[19:32] <SuperEngineer> !Searchmonkey
[19:33] <andylockran> don't suppose anyone knows how to wake up a monitor attached to a remote ubuntu machine
[19:33] <fooooool> so something broken with whatever decides what interpreter to use?
[19:33] <andylockran> via ssh connection to said remote machine
[19:33] <Nafallo> andylockran: sure do. plug in a keyboard and press CTRL
[19:34] <Nafallo> oh
[19:34] <andylockran> Nafallo: 'remote'
[19:34] <Nafallo> andylockran: remote hands? ;-)
[19:34] <andylockran> I said remote, in reality it's in the cupboard
[19:34] <DJones> How would you know if the monitor had come on if its remote :)
[19:34] <andylockran> the monitor is in front of me
[19:35] <andylockran> the computer is in the cupboard
[19:35] <andylockran> I've got CAT6 cabling throughout the new flat
[19:35] <SuperEngineer> popey: oh well - from synaptic: "SearchMonkey is a light-weight Gtk application
[19:35] <SuperEngineer> that aims to replace the cumbersome find/grep with a slick user interface that quickly provides a mark-up showing locations and quantity of text matches. The goal is to provide a simple to use and accessible search tool for
[19:35] <SuperEngineer> end-users, and software developers alike.
[19:35] <andylockran> and got hdmi over the cat6 to get the screen in the bathroom to display the computer in the cupboard
[19:35] <andylockran> also got some usb over cat6 adaptors for keyboard/mouse .etc
[19:36] <fooooool> thanks popey, at least i have a workaround now
[19:36] <Nafallo> andylockran: AFAIK it can't be done :-)
[19:36] <Nafallo> andylockran: you can tweak it not to go into sleep state to start with, but once there...
[19:37] <andylockran> Nafallo: Ok; will have to check the instruction manual for the TV
[19:37] <Nafallo> andylockran: no no. the TV wouldn't care.
[19:37] <Nafallo> andylockran: the graphics card goes to sleep after a while inactivity.
[19:37] <Nafallo> that's more likely to be the issue :-)
[19:38] <Nafallo> saves power etc ;-)
[19:38] <andylockran> x2x my be a solution :)
[19:39] <andylockran> or probably synergy
[19:39] <andylockran> :p
[19:39] <Nafallo> is the thingie running graphical stuff?
[19:39] <Nafallo> !info vino
[19:40] <Nafallo> vino is in main = supported :-)
[19:40] <popey> http://www.iloveubuntu.net/cowsay-terminal-utility-ponysay-28-released-new-ponies-and-fixes-ppa-available
[19:40] <popey> OMG!
[19:41] <andylockran> :p
[19:41] <Nafallo> popey: ... Ubuntu ?
[19:41] <SuperMatt> ponysay? oh very dear
[19:41] <SuperEngineer> popey: searchmonkey origin = precise/universe (i.e. archive.ubuntu.com)
[19:42] <Nafallo> !info searchmonkey
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> cheers Nafallo
[19:43]  * Nafallo likes !info
[19:44] <Nafallo> SuperEngineer: hrm... would you have a cape with a set of screwdriver bits on it?
[19:44] <Nafallo> as in, printed.
[19:44] <Nafallo> logo kind of
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> Nafallo: ...and a grapling hook
[19:45] <Nafallo> isn't the grapling hook a little bit to much Quake though?
[19:45] <Nafallo> s/to/&o/
[19:46] <SuperEngineer> Nafallo: only use it when this planet's gravity is not compatible with my own planet's
[19:46] <Nafallo> aha. gotcha
[19:47] <Nafallo> but then, if you can't control gravity... where do the "Super" come into play?
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> Nafallo: because....
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> Nafallo: I am..
[19:49] <SuperEngineer> Nafallo: SuperEngineer
[19:49]  * Nafallo prefers popey :-)
[19:50]  * SuperEngineer bets he hasn't to carry on working with a broken nose today!
[19:50]  * SuperEngineer wipes blood & tries to brief
[19:50] <SuperEngineer> *breath
[19:51] <Nafallo> he's clever enough not to break it in the first place :-)
[19:51] <SuperEngineer> that's because he doesn't work with machines that attc
[19:51] <SuperEngineer> attack
[19:54] <SuperEngineer> so back to original q.: why isn't Searchmonkey a default Ubuntu software package?
[19:57] <Nafallo> SuperEngineer: because it's very specific and not necessary for popey's mum?
[20:00]  * SuperEngineer waits for crying noise from Nafallo when popey hits Nafallo
[20:02] <Nafallo> you got our relationship all wrong. we do hugs, not hits.
[20:02] <popey> +1
[20:02] <Nafallo> :-)
[20:03] <SuperEngineer> see if i care - but still no answer
[20:03] <Nafallo> *giggle*
[20:03]  * SuperEngineer giggles as Naffand popey hug
[20:03]  * SuperEngineer giggles as Nafallo d popey hug
[20:03] <popey> you could ask the same question of many apps in the repo
[20:03] <popey> there are thousands
[20:03] <popey> why is that one special?
[20:04] <Nafallo> popey: libpam-google-authenticator. pure love!
[20:04] <SuperEngineer> urm... because it's useful?
[20:04] <SuperEngineer> the name describes it to the user
[20:04] <popey> so are all the others
[20:04] <popey> it didnt to me
[20:04] <popey> I had no clue what it was until you pasted the doc
[20:05] <SuperEngineer> ah well ... lost cause then
[20:05]  * SuperEngineer sulks
[20:05]  * popey shrugs
[20:06] <SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer: blows kisses anyway
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> ...& crosses Searchmonkey off list of "would be nice if included as default"... no hope - sigh
[20:09] <Nafallo> SuperEngineer: monkey is useful. seriously?! ;-)
[20:15] <AlanBell> [5~[6~[6~[6~
[20:16] <AlanBell> oops
[20:16]  * SuperEngineer spots a password
[20:16] <SuperEngineer> ...& brainwashes self
[20:20] <mgdm> no, escape characters
[20:21]  * Nafallo considers escaping himself
[20:22] <AlanBell> escape chars, from the phone
[20:24] <SuperEngineer> I used that excuse once, but for different reasons ;)
[20:28] <dwatkins> Escape characters would make for an interesting password... can't remember it? Look up the colour combination.
[20:29] <Nafallo> I'd totally use the rainbow flag somewhere...
[20:29] <Nafallo> who would guess that!
[20:29] <Nafallo> that said... I'm moving away from passwords on my machines :-P
[20:29] <Nafallo> OTP FTW
[20:31] <andylockran> grumpy :(
[20:33] <dogmatic69> I guess this is not the job for me... http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/24402/progressive-non-dogmatic-software-engineer-wayfair
[20:34] <Nafallo> lol
[20:34] <Nafallo> you should totally apply ;-)
[20:35] <dogmatic69> I thought so too.
[20:45] <bootljhfdsds> AlanBell, popey's post today of the german dude had me in stiches for a good half an hour :)
[21:23] <swattor_> evening
[21:26] <SuperMatt> 'ning
[21:36] <SuperMatt> oh, I've just found something annoying... my previous software centre purchaces (i.e. the last two humble bundles) don't yet work in quantal
[21:36] <SuperMatt> is this something that's going to be magically changed tomorrow?
[21:36] <popey> no
[21:37] <SuperMatt> what's going to happen then?
[21:37] <SuperMatt> or indeed, what should happen?
[22:17] <ali1234> what's going to happen? a lot of people are going to be annoyed, then some new unity features will be released and everyone will go back to complaining about that.


[00:37] <lamont> mass giveback done per request from doko, just fyi < skaet / slangasek
[00:37] <ScottK> Oh my.
[00:37] <skaet> lamont, thanks for the head's up.
[01:06] <lamont> not that much, actually.
[01:06] <lamont> now that I've really done the giveback. :-(
[01:08] <lamont> arm was the winner at 112 jobs
[10:25] <ogra> lamont, acorn reboot ping :)
[10:25] <ogra> lamont, it's hanging once again
[11:23] <lamont> ogra: bbg3 boards aren't remotely rebootable. :-(
[11:23] <lamont> well, powerstabable
[11:39] <ogra> lamont, yeah, i know, seems Nafallo already cared when i pinged anyway
[11:48] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if another release team member would double check this, but doesn't the pm-utils upload need a b-d on dpkg-dev added to use dpkg-vendor?
[11:56] <ogra> lamont, cjwatson, would http://paste.ubuntu.com/499635/ seem suitable for you to fix bug 600478 ?
[11:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 600478 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "livecd.sh should remove foreign subarch headers during livefs build (affects: 1) (heat: 47)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600478
[11:59] <lamont> ogra: does that want to override, instead of appending?
[12:00] <lamont> ogra: otherwise, I'm head deep in some other stuff atm... testing would be love, etc...
[12:00] <ogra> lamont, right, on amrel images we currently end up with all linux-headers packages for all subarches
[12:00] <ogra> and we only want the one for the actual subarch we build
[12:02] <lamont> ah, yeah.  that's a somewhat stab-in-the-face approach, but may well be right.
[12:02] <lamont> I haven't really reviewed it
[12:03] <ogra> i'll run a testbuild ... takes only 90min
[12:03] <ogra> (once my babbage boots)
[12:13] <cjwatson> ScottK: perhaps a versioned b-d, but it may not matter since lucid had dpkg-vendor in its dpkg-dev
[12:14] <ScottK> cjwatson: Right, but AFAICT, it doesn't b-d on dpkg-dev at all, so I don't see how the change could work?
[12:15] <cjwatson> ScottK: is it using it at build time, rather than run time?
[12:15] <cjwatson> ScottK: dpkg-dev is build-essential ...
[12:15] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[12:15] <ScottK> That was the bit I was missing.
[12:15] <cjwatson> has to be given things like dpkg-source :-)
[12:15] <ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.
[12:16] <cjwatson> if you catch things using dpkg-vendor at run-time, that's almost definitely a bug
[12:16] <cjwatson> anyone care to eyeball bug 634554 for me?  I think the upstream update is appropriate for maverick
[12:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 634554 in fuse (Fedora) (and 4 other projects) "fuse mounts hang on xattr retrieval with auditd (affects: 4) (heat: 28)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634554
[12:19]  * cjwatson lobs it at the queue
[12:19] <ScottK> I'm not qualified to review the code diff, but from the changelog it sounds reasonable.
[12:20]  * cjwatson nods.  Thanks.
[12:20] <cjwatson> ntfs-3g still works ;-)
[12:59] <cjwatson> the rest of the queue is either my uploads or stuff I'm too closely involved with to review
[13:05] <cjwatson> also, the sysvinit and mountall uploads are coupled; not strongly enough to justify a dependency relationship, but if sysvinit goes in without mountall then there'll be a bit of error noise at boot
[13:42] <doko> cjwatson: why does gs-common show up as a candidate for demotion? it's used as a b-d, but it's a virtual package?
[13:47] <ScottK> cjwatson: When you have a couple of minutes, I have an idea for a platform related LP change I'd like to run by you.
[13:48] <cjwatson> doko: presumably germinate always picks something else
[13:48] <cjwatson> ScottK: sure
[13:49] <ogra> ok, my livecd-rootfs headers fix works fine ...
[13:49]  * ogra commits and uploads
[13:49] <ScottK> cjwatson: It occurred to me that it would possibly be useful for non-archive admin members of the release team (such as sistpoty and iulian) to have access to the unapproved queue for the development release (like I do by virtue of being an archive admin).
[13:50] <ScottK> cjwatson: I chatted with wgrant about it and it's apparently feasible to do this.  We might also want similar for -proposed for ubuntu-sru members that aren't archive-admins.
[13:55] <doko> cjwatson, ev: libutouch-grail1-udeb utouch-grail-tools xserver-xorg-video-fbdev-udeb demotions ok? installer stuff
[13:56] <cjwatson> ScottK: agreed, I think ubuntu-release should have queue admin access
[13:56] <cjwatson> doko: yes, for now (though I want to look at those for later)
[13:57] <ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.  How about ubuntu-sru for -proposed?
[13:57] <cjwatson> ScottK: fine by me, it makes sense
[13:57] <ScottK> OK.  Great.  I'll talk to wgrant to see if we can make it happen.
[13:57] <cjwatson> that would be wonderful, thanks
[14:08] <ScottK> cjwatson: I have a question about your language-selector upload.  The comment right before the line that's changed is "# rename is atomic".  AFAICT that's true of os.rename and also true of shutil.move if it's src and dst are on the same file system, but not if they aren't.  I'm not sure if we care, but I thought it was worth a mention to doublecheck.
[14:16] <ScottK> doko: About your axis upload - I don't find that we have a package named libservlet2.5-java-gcj (just 2.4).
[14:20] <doko> well, then we should build it, or drop libjava-axis-gcj
[14:20] <doko> so better build it for 2.5 at this stage
[14:21] <cjwatson> ScottK: good question.  let me see if it matters
[14:21] <cjwatson> hm, yes, it does, we're doing it on /etc/default/locale
[14:21] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:21] <cjwatson> so I think instead we want something like:
[14:21] <cjwatson> try:
[14:22] <cjwatson>     os.rename(out.name, fname)
[14:22] <cjwatson> except OSError:
[14:22] <cjwatson>     shutil.move(out.name, some_name_on_same_fs)
[14:22] <cjwatson>     os.rename(some_name_on_same_fs, fname)
[14:22] <ScottK> Want me to reject it then?
[14:22] <cjwatson> actually maybe that's nonsense, perhaps we should just create the tempfile on the same fs to start with
[14:22] <cjwatson> yes please
[14:23] <ScottK> DOne.
[14:23] <ScottK> doko: I'll defer to you on how best to fix it, but your current upload would make the package uninstallable.  How about if I reject it and you upload again once it's sorted?
[14:24] <cjwatson> I think perhaps http://paste.ubuntu.com/499706/
[14:24] <doko> ScottK: no, please let it stay, I'll upload a new libservlet2.5
[14:24] <ScottK> doko: OK.
[14:29] <ScottK> cjwatson: I think so, but I'm only looking at the changes, I don't understand the surrounding code.
[14:30] <cjwatson> I've confirmed correct behaviour with strace
[14:31] <cjwatson> the purpose of the function is to search-and-replace an existing file and write a replacement version of it
[14:31] <cjwatson> it's basically just glorified sed -i
[14:34] <doko> ScottK: re-uploaded axis, just dropping the dependency
[14:35] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I'll accept it when it hits the queue.
[14:35] <ScottK> doko: OK.  I'll reject the first one and then look at that one.
[14:35] <cjwatson> ScottK: reuploaded.  thanks again for catching that
[14:36] <ScottK> cjwatson: You're welcome.  The real thanks go to whoever wrote the comment.
[14:36]  * ScottK would have never thought twice about it otherwise.
[14:37] <cjwatson> 178.2.12<EMAIL_ADDRESS>20100519
[14:37] <ScottK> Right, well I don't think I've ever seen anything he did that wasn't done well.
[15:02] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks a lot for this language-selector fix, funny co-incidence, I got bitten by the bug today and you already fixed :)
[15:02] <doko> cjwatson, slangasek: do the linaro packages need some seeding?
[15:13] <cjwatson> mvo: heh, well it was mostly due to seeing the merge proposal
[15:13] <cjwatson> doko: beats me
[15:27]  * persia would prefer not to see linaro packages seeded, and have the long-delayed discussion about how to represent multiple support entities at UDS
[15:38] <cjwatson> lamont: can you confirm whether bug 642344 is on your to-do list?
[15:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 642344 in libspring-2.5-java (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "libspring-2.5-java needs an initial manual build (affects: 1) (heat: 3380)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642344
[15:44] <doko> cjwatson: one more installer related demotion: libmtdev1-udeb mtdev-tools
[15:44] <cjwatson> that's ok too
[15:47] <smoser> i guess i should have brought this up before upload. there is a cloud-utils upload with fixes bug 621473 and bug 646823. they're both trivial fixes, with the dependency being more serious.  diff is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/499759/ diff is
[15:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 621473 in cloud-utils (Ubuntu) "uec-run-instances - passing multiple launchpad ids results in all of them failing (affects: 1) (heat: 116)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621473
[15:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 646823 in cloud-utils (Ubuntu) "uec-run-instances requires paramiko but isn't a depends (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646823
[15:50] <ttx> smoser: targeting them to maverick
[16:05] <ScottK> smoser: Accepted.
[16:05] <smoser> thank you
[16:06] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[16:09] <lamont> cjwatson: interestingly, it's on Ng's todo list
[16:10] <lamont> cjwatson: rt41455
[16:11] <lamont> cjwatson: we're testing some documentation while we're at it
[16:11] <doko> didn't you do this already with fpc? ;p
[17:22] <slangasek> doko: if you mean in components-mismatches, there's no reason for these u-boot packages to be in the Ubuntu seeds right now AFAICS
[17:22] <doko> ok
[17:23] <slangasek> just don't demote u-boot-linaro-omap4-panda, which the ARM team is using :)
[17:24] <doko> slangasek: and u-boot-linaro-ca9x4-ct-vxp u-boot-linaro-mx51evk u-boot-linaro-omap3-beagle ?
[17:24] <slangasek> those are used in linaro images, not in official Ubuntu ones; they can all be demoted
[17:25] <ScottK> slangasek: What would you think about recasting the Linaro release freeze is a period to do ISO builds and testing from the Maverick archive and then make it any flavor or derivative that wants to take advantage of it can use it and uploads should be coordinated with them?
[17:26] <ScottK> Although I'm not on the SRU team, so I didn't reply to the list, I think to the extent we can make this a generic Ubuntu thing and not special treatment for one derivative, it's a good idea.
[17:27] <ScottK> I doubt it actually affects what we'll do, but I think it's a better message.
[17:27] <cjwatson> that does make a certain amount of sense
[17:28] <cjwatson> a derivative stabilisation period
[17:28] <slangasek> ScottK: it becomes an n-way coordination problem for the SRU team to figure out what should or shouldn't be let through, so if n ends up being large we would need some better tools; but sure, I think it makes sense to treat it that way
[17:29] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure n=1 for this cycle, so we can get smarter if it gets bigger.
[17:29] <slangasek> right :)
[17:33] <ogra> cjwatson, any idea why the dove and omap4 kernels want to go to universe ? looking at supported-kernel-common in the seeds it seems dove for example was never there but it never wanted to move to universe before either
[17:33] <cjwatson> no
[17:33]  * ogra wonders if he should just add both to supported-kernel-common
[17:33] <cjwatson> look at germinate output and figure it out from there
[17:39] <ogra> oh, i guess i see the prob
[17:39] <ogra>  * ${Kernel-Stem}-dove [armel]
[17:39] <ogra>  * ${Kernel-Stem}-omap [armel]
[17:39] <ogra>  * ${Kernel-Stem}-omap4 [armel]
[17:40] <ogra> Kernel-Stem is only linux or linux-image ... but omap4 and dove have linux-ti and linux-mvl
[17:40] <ogra> (in the boot seed)
[17:40] <cjwatson> should be ${Kernel-Stem}-mvl-dove etc. then
[17:41] <ogra> right
[17:41] <ogra> no
[17:41] <ogra> actually :)
[17:41] <ogra> the that wont work with linux-image
[17:43] <skaet> ScottK, slangasek - any thoughts on where the derivative stabilization period should be documented?   wondering if this is a good topic for UDS, after we go through a cycle?
[17:43] <ScottK> Unfortunately we won't have gone through a cycle until after UDS.
[17:44] <skaet> well,  we'll be part way through at least ;)
[17:44] <slangasek> ogra: eh - why are the binary metapackages not named consistently with the kernel packages!
[17:44] <cjwatson> ogra: in fact, the original was just fine
[17:44] <cjwatson> linux-dove | <IP_ADDRESS>9.1 |      maverick | armel
[17:44] <ogra> slangasek, i didnt name them ...
[17:44] <cjwatson> linux-image-dove | <IP_ADDRESS>9.1 |      maverick | armel
[17:44] <cjwatson> linux-image-2.6.32-410-dove | 2.6.32-410.26 |      maverick | armel
[17:44] <ScottK> I think we ought to have a release team BOF session at UDS, but I don't think think particular issue needs a full session.
[17:44] <cjwatson> only the source package is -mvl-dove, and the source package name is entirely irrelevant to germinate
[17:44] <slangasek> ogra: I guess you'll have to list ${Kernel-Stem}-ti-omap4 and ${Kernel-Stem}-omap4 both to get the desired result
[17:45] <cjwatson> slangasek: no, he's just got it wrong :)
[17:45] <skaet> ScottK, including JamieBennett too I think.
[17:45] <cjwatson> ${Kernel-Stem}-ti-omap4 will have no effect as far as I can see
[17:45] <cjwatson> the metapackages are linux-omap4 and linux-ti-omap4
[17:45] <ScottK> skaet: Certainly, although my focus was around the Ubuntu release team, I think having other there is great too.
[17:46] <slangasek> skaet: I agree with ScottK; we should discuss things more generally
[17:46]  * ogra is confused, doko pinged me about tehse packages being on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[17:46] <slangasek> cjwatson: ah, ok
[17:46] <cjwatson> ogra: somebody needs to update the dove metapackage to the current version, that's all
[17:46] <skaet> slangasek, ScottK,  cool.
[17:46] <cjwatson> haven't checked what's happening with omap but I imagine it's similar
[17:46] <ogra> cjwatson, oh, ok
[17:46] <ogra> well, omap should be up to date
[17:47] <ogra> (omap4 that is)
[17:47] <cjwatson> anyway, please check germinate output etc. rather than guessing.
[17:48] <chrisccoulson> thanks to whoever approved lightning :)
[17:49] <slangasek> ogra, cjwatson: platform/installer lists the old ABI version for omap4.
[17:50] <ogra> but the proper one for dove
[17:50] <ogra> oh my
[17:50]  * ogra fixes
[17:52] <ogra> not only the old abi version btw
[19:17] <ScottK> doko: We should have a new drizzle update on Monday that will actually build.  I'd rather not accept this one and then wait for the new one on Monday if you're OK with that?
[19:18] <doko> ScottK: I don't care, just cleaning up NBS
[19:19] <ScottK> OK. I'll reject this one and we'll let next week's upload clean it up.
[19:19] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:34] <sistpoty> ScottK: can you send a follow-up mail to u-d-a wrt sugar?
[19:35] <ScottK> sistpoty: Do you thin it needs it?  I cc'ed lfaraone and I don't think anyone else really needs to care.
[19:36] <sistpoty> ScottK: I guess it doesn't have mach practical impact, but I think it would be good for the sake of transparency
[19:37] <ScottK> I can see that, but I think it's a very minor point for a u-d-a mail.
[19:37] <sistpoty> ok, agreed (and it can be read on ubuntu-release list anyways)
[19:38] <ScottK> Great.
[20:07] <ogasawara> skaet: just fyi bug 647071
[20:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 647071 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "0-day Maverick Kernel Upload (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647071
[20:08] <skaet> ogasawara, thanks for the heads's up
[20:18] <doko> ScottK: 647079 again, ok to sync idzebra?
[20:19] <ScottK> doko: Yes.
[20:24] <skaet> ogasawara, looks good.  Only one weird thing from my perspective,  I see you set the milestone to maverick-updates, but its not showing up when I display it.
[20:27] <skaet> ogasawara, not being picked up in the maverick-updates milstone search...   hmph.   will see what I can do.
[20:30] <skaet> ogasawara, heh.   yup that worked.   search is picking it up.   all good.  action done ;)
[21:13] <doko> ScottK: ^^^ needed to build with qalculate version in maverick
[21:13] <ScottK> doko: OK.
[21:14] <ScottK> doko: Accepted.


[11:29] <crazy_penguin> Libertiny, hello
[11:29] <Libertiny> crazy_penguin: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
[11:29] <crazy_penguin> yey it still works (after all this time)! :P
[11:31] <crazy_penguin> fdd: What is up? :P