[03:30] <pitti> Good morning
[07:13] <jibel> good morning
[08:38] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[09:06] <slickymaster> good morning all
[09:06] <slickymaster> elfy, you there?
[09:24] <Noskcaj> evening slickymaster
[09:24] <DanChapman> hey Noskcaj , slickymaster o/
[09:25] <Noskcaj> hey DanChapman
[09:26] <slickymaster> DanChapan, good morning
[09:26] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, can you spare 5 minutes?
[09:26] <Noskcaj> slickymaster, sure, what is it?
[09:27] <slickymaster> Nosckaj, it's about this test: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1183493
[09:28] <slickymaster> It's tagged as merged but I'm still working on it
[09:29] <Noskcaj> If it's in a usable condition, leave it as merged but push a new version every time you think it's necessary
[09:31] <Noskcaj> If you're looking for something to do, the libreoffice tests are out of order and confusing
[09:31] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, ok, I'll continue working on it and I'll propose the merge when it's finished. Is that ok with you?
[09:31] <Noskcaj> yep
[09:32] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, one last thing, about the translations for the TestDrive, the intention is to get both testedrive and testdricegtk translated, right?
[09:33] <Noskcaj> yeah. Ignore the testdrive-gtk launchpad page though, it's a stub. Just use /testdrive and translate everything there
[09:33] <Noskcaj> (on launchpad)
[09:35] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, wiil do. About libreoffice, I don't think I can spare the time, for now, to work on it
[12:39] <elfy> slickymaster: not really here - as noskag said just work on it as you are then push when there's stuff to merge - you can forget about lkibreoffice testcases anyway - it's not xubuntu default app ;)
[12:54] <knome> elfy, well said sir ;)
[12:56] <elfy> :)
[13:50] <pitti> xnox: btw, did you happen to find out anything about partman-auto with an md device?
[13:50] <xnox> pitti: nope, not yet.
[14:01] <xnox> pitti: wanna hangout about ubiquity & autopilot
[14:01] <pitti> xnox: ah right, that's now; gonna be there
[14:03] <jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/+junk/ubiquity-autopilot-runner
[14:03] <jibel> DanChapman, balloons_ xnox pitti ^
[14:04] <jibel> ./run-ubiquity-test ./saucy-desktop-amd64.iso
[14:04] <jibel> DanChapman, balloons_ xnox pitti ^
[14:04] <balloons_> ahh..much better :-p
[14:06] <DanChapman> balloons_, FF is freezing up on me at the mo just waiting for it to catch up
[14:06] <balloons_> DanChapman, ahh.. it's giving alot of feedback through your mic
[14:09]  * DanChapman gets headphones
[14:37] <balloons> DanChapman, I see ff is still causing heartache today
[14:38] <DanChapman> Yeah i'm still waiting on your review ;0)
[14:38] <balloons> DanChapman, ohh, well let's solve that eh?
[14:38] <DanChapman> that should stop the fails for good
[14:38] <xnox> Why is dl-ubuntu-test-iso not in the archive?
[14:40] <balloons> xnox aren't you planning to use zsync?
[14:41] <balloons> ahh.. this uses zsync plus some more, interesting
[14:41] <xnox> balloons: dl-ubuntu-test-iso, i write one config file and simple "dl-ubuntu-test-iso" fetches the complete set of images I am interested in
[14:42] <pitti> xnox: hm, now with ubiquity -d -b it crashes right after selecting the language, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887752/
[14:42] <xnox> balloons: and i'm surprised this is not in the archive.
[14:42] <balloons> xnox, right right.. but it's not been around since 10.04 to my knowledge
[14:42] <balloons> stemming from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-tools?
[14:42] <xnox> pitti: ouch.
[14:42] <pitti> xnox: ah, sorry, my fault
[14:44] <balloons> xnox, jibel might know more about dl-ubuntu-test-iso
[14:44] <xnox> pitti: looks like parted_devices is not an executable?! =)
[14:44] <pitti> xnox: for some reason it was damaged
[14:44] <xnox>  /o\
[14:44] <pitti> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887760/
[14:45] <pitti> xnox: ^ debug log after partman-auto (should have) done its job
[14:46] <pitti> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887761/ ← /var/log/partman
[14:46] <jibel> xnox, it has been removed a while ago but cannot remember why
[14:47] <pitti> xnox: can you somehow run just partman-auto in a terminal to see what it's doing, to avoid the ubiquity overhead in each turnaround?
[14:50] <pitti> xnox: c'est l'heure du glace, à bientôt !
[14:51] <stgraber> pitti: de la
[14:51] <stgraber> ;)
[14:51] <pitti> stgraber: I thought that de la == du ?
[14:52] <pitti> anyway, bbl
[14:52] <balloons> pitti, pardonnez mon français-- ice cream hour? ahh stgraber merci
[14:52] <xnox> pitti: well, on only needs to run partman under d-i & debconf. Or run ubuntu-server image over that device only, somehow.
[14:53] <stgraber> pitti: "du chocolat" (masculine), "de la glace" (feminine)
[14:53] <xnox> pitti: btw. parted state is not cleared after ubiquity exists so, one needs to clear /var/lib/parted/
[14:53] <stgraber> pitti: but it's french so there are exceptions ;)
[14:54] <jibel> pitti, du = de le
[14:56] <DanChapman> xnox, for the dual-boot test are you only wanting to run it against windows. Or would you prefer the test to be non-distro specific . Just figuring out what to look for UI wise
[14:56] <balloons> DanChapman, ff test is  merged
[14:56] <balloons> I'll push to prod
[14:57] <xnox> DanChapman: there are multiple configurations. See: http://goo.gl/Kokw5
[14:57] <xnox> DanChapman: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1bZ4yQIVgGaUGSYu3qiUHnQt3ieBZoqunP_DcleHCr3I/preview#bookmark=id.35db66d9d3b3
[14:57] <DanChapman> balloons, awesome. That should be it now! if that fails i will eat my socks!
[14:58] <xnox> DanChapman: depending on the # of installed systems, # of available drives, whether they are ubuntu/windows/mac/other linux different options and text is displayed.
[14:59] <xnox> pitti: i'm not sure DEP-8 makes sense, since we are testing ubiquity as is on the cd, instead of the one uploaded. I guess we need to trigger ubiquity upgrade from -proposed in the CD as well.
[14:59] <DanChapman> xnox, ok great will go have a read. thanks
[15:17] <xnox> pitti:  # Skip software RAID (mdadm) devices (/dev/md/X and /dev/mdX)                $(echo "$device" | grep -Eq "/dev/md/?[0-9]*$") && continue
[15:17] <xnox> pitti:  /lib/partman/lib/auto-shared.sh
[15:30] <pitti> stgraber: ah, I thought du would work for both genders; thanks!
[15:30] <balloons> DanChapman, do you have further tests targetted to add for ubuntu-autopilot-tests?
[15:35] <pitti> xnox: aah, thanks
[15:36] <xnox> pitti: i think there is also a filter there to skip loop mounted devices.....
[15:37] <pitti> xnox: well, it's not a loop device, so that part should be fine (they don't even appear in parted_devices)
[15:37] <xnox> pitti: i think the logical reason behind it, is that not non mdadm /boot is required by the installer at the moment, despite the fact that grub2 learned how to read those.
[15:37] <DanChapman> balloons, that i have been working on? or to add to the bug list?
[15:38] <xnox> pitti: and one can't automatically guess which partition to use as /boot for an md device..... but we even chose not to install grub.... so it shouldn't be relevant. Hmm.
[15:38] <pitti> xnox: ok, so I'll try again with hacking that
[15:39] <pitti> xnox: hah nice, that works! at least I get the autopartitioning screen now
[15:39] <xnox> =)
[15:40] <pitti> xnox: I'll add that to the script with a comment that we want that in the general case, but not in the test which covers the case when we indeed don't have a bootable device
[15:40] <xnox> well, i'd expect it to fail soonish, it might detect it's raid array and start trying to install mdadm and what not =/
[15:41] <xnox> fingers crossed, it's enough to finish a normal install =)
[15:41] <pitti> xnox: if we could spare 6 GB of RAM we could just use scsi_debug..
[15:41] <xnox> pitti: oh, i can spare 6GB of RAM locally =)
[15:41]  * xnox has 32GB
[15:42]  * pitti has 4
[15:42] <pitti> xnox: sudo modprobe scsi_debug dev_size_mb=6000, and go wild :)
[15:43] <pitti> that should be mostly indistinguishable from a real scsi disk, unless you look rather hard (device path and such)
[15:43] <xnox> nice. =) didn't know i could do that.
[15:46] <pitti> xnox: aaaaand success!
[15:48] <DanChapman> balloons, i wonder if creating tests for say libreoffice where ProcMan is needed is it worth it, considering the problems with FF and it being a rather simple test
[15:49] <pitti> DanChapman, balloons, jibel, xnox: please have an updated script which now DTRT: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/test-ubiquity.sh.txt
[15:49] <balloons> DanChapman, I would consider libreoffice a lower priority as there is a nice set of autopkg tests for it
[15:49] <pitti> I just tested an ubiquity installation end-to-end with autopartitioning
[15:49] <pitti> fdisk -l /dev/md42 looks reasonable, too
[15:52] <balloons> DanChapman, so I was just looking at the list, what else can we add / do?
[15:52] <balloons> DanChapman, sorry I should be more clear. for ubuntu-autopilot-tests, I'm looking at the trello board
[15:53] <balloons> most of our original targets are done and deemed not doable
[15:53] <balloons> *or
[15:53] <DanChapman> balloons, i had a hack at rhythmbox little while back but it was getting really hacky. I was gonna ask pitti if it's possible to mount a music cd with umockdev and how?
[15:53] <DanChapman> balloons, I think gnome-calculator should go on there
[15:53] <xnox> pitti:  \o/
[15:53] <pitti> DanChapman: not with umockdev, but with scsi_debug you can do it
[15:53]  * DanChapman just heads to trello
[15:54] <pitti> DanChapman: I do that in the udisks2 and in the gvfs tsts
[15:54] <balloons> DanChapman, ahh.. good point. I'm really sad about shotwell, you should open the card and check the linked bug and see if anything has changed
[15:54] <pitti> DanChapman: main issue is that you need root for it
[15:55] <DanChapman> balloons, will take a look at shotwell. I never did look to see why it couldn't be done.
[15:55] <balloons> DanChapman, the issue is there was no way for us to programmtically get at the camera object
[15:56] <balloons> but you know, they didn't change the app to give us keyboard shortcuts, but maybe pitti's changes will show us the object now
[15:56] <balloons> the deal was the camera object didn't appear in autopilot for us to interact with
[15:56] <pitti> if it's not exposed, please file an autopilot-gtk but
[15:56] <balloons> carla did work already on mocking a camera and everything for it, so there was quite a bit of work done
[15:56] <pitti> bug; I'll look into it
[15:57] <DanChapman> pitti, will have a peak at gvfs.
[15:58] <pitti> DanChapman: is root a problem for your tests?
[15:58] <pitti> DanChapman: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/tree/test/gvfs-test#n983
[16:02] <pitti> DanChapman: actually, http://cgit.freedesktop.org/udisks/tree/src/tests/integration-test#n389 is structurally easier, if you want to look at that
[16:02] <pitti> DanChapman: it's the same approach, but with less wrapping around it
[16:07] <DanChapman> balloons, if i remember correctly the camera comes up in the tree view in the left pane. We can't see the items inside objects like treeview and combobox. But can click on the treeview object to get focus so we can keyboard nav. I'll stick it on my todo and have a play before we rule itout
[16:08] <balloons> DanChapman, ok, and as pitti said, if there's something he might be able to help with, let's note it :-)
[16:10] <DanChapman> pitti, im not sure if root is a problem or not. balloons do you know??
[16:11] <balloons> mm.. it has potential to be yes
[16:11] <pitti> DanChapman: autopkgtests have no problem with root; a "make check" upstream integration has, and if you want to run tests during package build
[16:11] <balloons> the tests themselves run as a normal user
[16:11] <pitti> we cannot currently mock block devices purely as user
[16:11] <pitti> that's a rather complex thing to do
[16:12] <balloons> but if you do your setup via root before running the test, should be fine
[16:13] <pitti> DanChapman: I suggest your root setup leaves some marker in the file system which your tests can pick up (like the name of the fake cd drive)
[16:13] <pitti> DanChapman: and if your tests don't find the marker, you just unittest.skipIf() it
[16:14] <pitti> so that the other tests still work in a normal "make check" style
[16:14] <pitti> (if you integrate them in the upstream build/test system)
[16:16] <DanChapman> ahh ok i get what your saying. I'll have a go, will come back to you if i get stuck on that one :-P
[16:20] <DanChapman> balloons, U1 would be a good test to have. Do you know if the U1 guys have a dummy account they use for testing?
[16:23] <pitti> DanChapman: ubuntuone-client just got an autopkgtest, that might have some kind of local dummy server to test against?
[16:23] <balloons> DanChapman, I *think* elopio could shed some light on that. In general we left software center and u1 alone as they do there own automated testing
[16:24] <balloons> and of course have special needs, like test accounts, etc :-)
[16:25] <balloons> we also left unity alone as they too have there own testsuite in autopilot :-)
[16:25] <DanChapman> balloons ahh ok. I saw it in the bug list. Should we remove it then?
[16:25] <balloons> DanChapman, you could comment and mark won't fix
[16:25] <balloons> should that change, well :-)
[16:26] <elopio> DanChapman: it depends on the level of testing you have in mind. For user testing, we run most of the suites against a local or staging server, where we can create a new user for every test.
[16:33] <elopio> pitti: there's no dummy server. For the unit tests, they fake the parts needed for each test.
[16:33] <pitti> elopio: ah, ok
[16:34] <elopio> there are also some dummy clients, that test some features from the servers. So the real client needs mostly a manual run to check that the integration looks good.
[16:37] <DanChapman> elopio, is it any use to have an autopilot test for U1-control-panel? just looking it already has a wealthy test suite anyway
[16:39] <elopio> DanChapman: it would be nice, of course. Currently it's not a priority, since the development has freezed. And if it's resumed, it will probably change the UI to use the SDK.
[16:50] <DanChapman> balloons, ive moved nautilus and terminal back to todo on trello as they both use ProcMan and can be introspected now
[16:50] <balloons> DanChapman, :-)
[18:57] <asac> doanac: one question ... the smem job that i see that runs together with autopilots
[18:57] <asac> doanac: is that the job getting the data for memory budget?
[19:13] <doanac> asac: it produces this report: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/memory/idle/arch/armhf/
[20:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi
[20:14]  * SergioMeneses says hi everybody
[20:15] <Letozaf_> I am working on the settings tab autopilot test for sudoku app, as I will not finish it tonight, it's a bit too long, I pushed what I did til now, probably tomorrow I will finish it, hope: https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/sudoku-app/settingsTab
[20:15] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, Hello
[20:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, just if you want to take a look ,but don't have to :)
[20:19] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, hi how you been?
[20:19] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, fine and you ?
[20:20] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, fine too working :D
[20:21] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, oh so you're problably quite busy ;)
[20:22] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, what do you do ?
[20:24] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, i'm working as system administrator
[20:25] <SergioMeneses> not too busy right now... everything is working well
[20:26] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, cool nice job, like me :D
[20:27] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, well hope you enjoy it
[20:27] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, I do :)
[20:27] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, good, good :D
[20:29] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, I have a little issue with Apache but I'm reading about it
[20:31] <Letozaf_> Letozaf_, oh! unfortunatly I do not have Apache where I work, I wish I did :p
[20:31] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, you are lucky
[20:31] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, it's nice working with open source instead or proprietary software :p
[20:32] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, ofcourse :) that is the reason to be working here
[20:32] <SergioMeneses> I can learn a lot and get better skills about services
[20:32] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, yeah true :D
[20:33] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, I also do it for fun :p
[20:33] <SergioMeneses> sure
[20:33] <SergioMeneses> I'm going to get some coffee
[20:34] <asac> doanac: ok ... so thats not what gives use the other memory dash preview you showed me?
[20:34] <doanac> asac: no
[20:41] <phillw> has any one seen the scarlet pimpernel about (aka balloons)? :)
[20:43] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, I am going to bed now, bye and good luck for your job :)
[20:44] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, ok see you!
[20:44] <knome> phillw, said something about 4 hours ago
[20:44] <phillw> he's probably tied up with auto-testing :)
[20:47] <knome> or mirroring his handsome face
[20:47]  * knome hides
[20:47] <knome> bbl
[21:30] <balloons> knome, phillw I've been feeling quite ill
[21:32] <phillw> balloons: sorry to hear :( I've got a "winged" guy also on lubuntu.  It's just a request to see if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/Activities can go live before I edit to death!
[21:32] <phillw> *edit it to death!*
[21:33] <balloons> phillw, I'd say yes.. kick off a round of review on the mailing list and let people know and give input :-)
[21:33] <phillw> else, I can throw it to the tender mercies of the mailing list :)
[21:33] <phillw> I'll do both - and take a backup of the exiting one :)
[21:33] <balloons> the only other thing I want to see there is stuff on running the development release
[21:34] <balloons> it's much nicer than what we have :-)
[21:34] <balloons> good work!
[21:35] <phillw> balloons: not too sure what else to add in for that... most of those pages being referred to are pulled from testing pages. Let me have a think, if I can't come up with some thing 'short and sweet' I'll ask for input from the ML
[21:35] <balloons> well, I'd like to have something on, hey install the testin version of ubuntu
[21:36] <balloons> in a vm or on a box, and use it to participate in cadence testing, etc
[21:36] <phillw> Sure, I can pull a heading up for that, and include on it some links
[21:36] <balloons> right.. and if your really up for it, run it fulltime
[21:36] <balloons> that's never really been documented..
[21:39] <phillw> as we have the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/TheStages I guess making a fully fledged one for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/TheStages#Virtual_Machines with the header being 'how to test the dev release' would fit in?
[21:41] <phillw> I'm not sure enough about cadence tetsting's ins and outs to further edit the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy maybe when you're feeling better you can have a look at that and then it can be fully added as a header section (unless you're happy with it as it stands, in which case I'll do that in this editing session I'm about to do)
[21:42] <phillw> I've got a couple of hours to do a last head on edit!
[21:43] <phillw> I'd better mention testdrive, or my name will be mud!
[21:45] <phillw> Yeah, it's okay.. I can see how to format it up! It'll get done in next couple of hours..
[21:53] <slickymaster> good night everyone
[21:53] <Noskcaj> hello slickymaster, Thanks for the translations
[21:54] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, you're welcome
[21:55] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, I've also finished Xfce4 Settings Manager and I'm going to push it now to merge proposal
[21:56] <slickymaster> Noslcaj, I've not covered all the items in the settings manager because several items were already covered in other tests
[21:56] <balloons> phillw, got it.. go for broke mate
[21:57] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, do you think I should mention that in the proposal comment?
[22:00] <Noskcaj> slickymaster, it might be a good idea. I'll merge it when i get home from school unless elfy or balloons beat me to it
[22:01] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, will do it, then
[22:02] <stgraber> balloons, knome: do you have a list of changes and links to mockups for the bits you want me to change on the QATracker?
[22:02] <stgraber> I have a vague hope of doing some of that on my flight to London on Saturday
[22:03] <knome> stgraber, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-12.png
[22:03] <knome> stgraber, i can write an email running through the changes exactly if that helps
[22:04] <stgraber> knome: yeah, that'd be helpful and attach the mockup so I have it offline. I have a bunch of notes in my irclogs and elsewhere but that won't be too helpful if I do it over the ocean ;)
[22:04] <knome> i'll do that :)
[22:05] <balloons> knome, awesome, I'll let you be the one source of communication on this
[22:05] <knome> balloons, i'll cc you too.
[22:05] <balloons> I think we've hashed out the ideas well enough
[22:06] <knome> anybody else who should be informed?
[22:06] <balloons> everyone else when we have the results ;-) otheriwse.. none come to mind
[22:06] <knome> okay
[22:31] <knome> stgraber, balloons: you both have mail
[22:38] <stgraber> knome: what extra tags do you want?
[22:38] <stgraber> knome: you currently have: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <blockquote> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <pre> <img>

[22:39] <knome> i mean, something
[22:39] <knome> let me check and propose
[22:39] <stgraber> knome: added h1 to h5 for now
[22:39] <phillw> balloons: now... the $64,000 question... do you want it in alpha / beat / RC (as it is now) with cadence week numbers in brackets, or do you want it cadence week number order with alpha / beta / RC in brackets?
[22:39] <knome> stgraber, i'm thinking we might not want to enable h1...
[22:39] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Testing_The_Devlopment_Release#preview
[22:40] <stgraber> knome: hmm, yeah, might make it a bit confusing with the site's own headers
[22:40] <phillw> Grr.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Testing_The_Devlopment_Release
[22:40] <knome> stgraber, unless we style them appropriately (eg. the <h1> in testcase shouldn't be as big as the <h1> in the page header or so)
[22:41] <stgraber> knome: h3 to h5 are unused on the standard pages, not sure how they look like though
[22:41] <stgraber> well, h6 is free too
[22:41] <stgraber> I'll enable those for now, if you need h2, let me know
[22:41] <stgraber> knome: and done (those are simple Drupal settings)
[22:41] <knome> stgraber, i'd say h3/h4 would be enough
[22:42] <knome> stgraber, if you can enable those in the sandbox, i can come up with some css for them soonish
[22:42] <knome> stgraber, considering the use we have for the elements, just h3 would be fine tbe
[22:43] <stgraber> knome: ok, qa.dev.stgraber.org updated too
[22:43] <knome> stgraber, great, thanks
[22:43] <knome> stgraber, i just want something to separate two or more blocks of text from each other
[22:43] <knome> stgraber, so that's why i've been asking for those :)
[22:45] <stgraber> knome: for the "You are currently on: Ubuntu ISO Testing" it's mostly to distinguish the dozen instances on the same server (as I can't easily change the <title> without hacking Drupal). But I should be able to move that bit to something title-looking next to the Ubuntu logo (I "think" there's a block area I can use there)
[22:45] <knome> stgraber, that's what i'm thinking
[22:46] <knome> stgraber, the note is a bit confusing if you don't know about all those different instances or do not care
[22:46] <knome> stgraber, it might lead people thinking "(is this) where i *should* be?" :)
[22:47] <knome> (and of course, it uses valuable, top-of-the-page space without being overly useful)
[22:52] <knome> stgraber, h3 { display: inline; font-size: 125%; border-bottom: 1px solid #ccc; }
[22:52] <knome> stgraber, that should be increasingly good-looking once the testcases have a white background
[22:53] <stgraber> ok
[22:54] <knome> if it ends up looking bad, i'll let you know of any replacement css
[22:54] <knome> but i doubt that
[23:01] <xnox> pitti: jibel: balloons: i am blown away =) cloud-init cloud image in a qemu, to run auto-package-test which launches a VM to drive an installer, and watchint it via doubly connected vnc forward......
[23:01] <xnox> inception - the programmer's special edition =)
[23:14] <stgraber> knome: YGM
[23:16] <knome> stgraber, you should probably discuss the critical/non-critical bugs with balloons
[23:17] <stgraber> knome: he's Cced ;)
[23:17] <knome> right
[23:17] <knome> it's 2am ;)
[23:18] <knome> >
[23:18] <knome> > – Reports for the testcase (also see new preferred table layout)
[23:18] <knome> You mean the target for "To see a full list of bugs reported for this
[23:18] <knome> testcase..."?
[23:18] <knome> i'm not following that
[23:20] <knome> what i meant that the table columns are rearranged
[23:20] <knome> +is
[23:21] <stgraber> knome: ah, I understood the table columns to be "(also see new preferred table layout)" and interpreted the "Reports for the testcase" as being "we need some page to list all the bugs for a testcase"
[23:21] <knome> well, that'd be useful :)
[23:22] <knome> what's an edit icon that doesn't suck?
[23:23] <knome> i thought "details" more than "edit" when looking for that icon
[23:28] <stgraber> knome: well, I guess a usual pen like icon or something along those lines
[23:29] <stgraber> knome: that icon is shown when you have right to alter a result, either because it's your own or because you're an admin
[23:30] <stgraber> the copy/paste briefcase looks a bit odd for that (if I didn't know what that link is supposed to do, I'd never guess ;))
[23:30] <knome> that's because you're not supposed to guess, you're supposed to know >:)
[23:32] <knome> stgraber, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/elementary-actions-16-edit.png ?
[23:32] <stgraber> yep, that'd do the trick
[23:32] <knome> will you pick that up or want me to email that?
[23:33] <stgraber> e-mail please, in 24x24 if you have
[23:33] <knome> stgraber, re: critical/normal bugs... i suppose the logic was that if a test is failing, all bugs should be critical
[23:34] <knome> i know that's not waterproof, but it would mean one less input box for the use
[23:34] <knome> *user
[23:34] <knome> all the other icons are 16px. is there a reason why you want to force 24 for this, or would you like them all in that size (and why?)
[23:35] <stgraber> ah, did you get everything down to 16px? the current ones are all 24 i think
[23:35] <knome> yep, all is down to 16
[23:35] <stgraber> ok, then 16px is fine
[23:36] <knome> i don't think we're making it any harder to use, and it's a bit more compact this way
[23:36] <stgraber> so typically from a release team point of view, I only care about the red bugs, everything else I just ignore
[23:36] <stgraber> having to then go and check individual reports and bugs makes me waste time
[23:36] <knome> i see
[23:37] <stgraber> so I prefer having two input fields and having the user decide which are blockers and which aren't than have the release team go through them all and generate yet another report :)
[23:37] <knome> mhm
[23:37] <knome> i'm fine with that
[23:37] <knome> i'm more interested in the improved looks/readability than the actual features
[23:39] <stgraber> haha, I'm quite the opposite, I couldn't care less about design/readability so long as I get all I need in less than 30s on the site ;)
[23:39] <stgraber> (well, I tend to use the API to shorten that time even more)
[23:39] <knome> heh, yeah


[22:52] <sary> np: '5 Mos Def f. Faith Evans - Brown Sugar (Extra Sweet) (Brown Sugar Soundtrack)'
[22:53] <sary> np: '6 Atli Orvarsson - Anna & Kay (Season Of The Witch)'


[10:22] <eTrUSCANDigitalN> Good morning everyone, where I can write a question for help in boot not working with a specific EFI with Win and UbuntuStudio where only Win starts?
[14:31] <arraybolt3[m]> eTrUSCAN Digital Nomad: This channel is fine, but you might find more people and more help in #ubuntu:libera.chat.
[14:31] <arraybolt3[m]> That being said, what's gone wrong?
 "eTrUSCAN Digital Nomad: This..." <- Thanks. I know exists an online Ubuntu help support but didn't find any answer in more than a year
[16:21] <eTrUSCANDigitalN> I have reFIND start but selecting Ubuntu not works anymore since updated Ubuntu was installed... Despite the installation steps are always successful
[16:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Is there a particular reason you need rEFInd and can't use Grub?
[16:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (I know how to wrangle GRUB, but I've never used rEFInd.)
[16:25] <arraybolt3[m]> * (I know quite a bit about how to
[18:03] <eTrUSCANDigitalN> I place refind that just start and then redirect to GRUB. But GRUB doesn't start and return error
[18:03] <eTrUSCANDigitalN> * place refind menu that just
[18:05] <eTrUSCANDigitalN> There is a boot fix help group where was supposed to send the configuration scheme to get help to fix grub ... But need a registration that wasn't able to activate


[11:46] <ochosi> i'm a little out of the loop and all, but i'm preparing a release for elementary-xfce which should contain some 4.16 fixes and lots of overall fixes


[11:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: What's the status of things?  How is experimental?  xfconf/-panel/-settings/thunar*?
[11:37] <bluesabre> Unit193: only really know the state of -settings, where 4.13.4 can go to experimental and 4.12.4 can go to bionic (and not experimental)
[11:37] <bluesabre> exo 0.12.2 is also ready for upload/use
[11:37] <bluesabre> going to be working on SRUs this weekend
[11:41] <bluesabre> thunar also seems safe from my testing at home, going to install at work today and give it a run
[11:42] <bluesabre> off to work now, bbl


[00:22] <mhall119> hggdh: it's not uncommon, and it doesn't have to be a negative thing, it all depends on what is shaken and how
[00:32] <hggdh> mhall119: indeed. The only thing that bothers me on his behaviour is that he *always* has the first and last word.
[00:47] <hggdh> he has already gon to debian-dev to complain about Ubuntu, and others
[01:22] <mhall119> I'm sure they're thrilled
[01:23] <belkinsa> Who are we reffering to?
[01:25] <nigelb> czajkowski: an ansible sript! that *is* nerdy!
[01:25] <nigelb> pleia2: so are you <3
[01:25] <nigelb> belkinsa: the thread on ubuntu-community-team about lp team.
[01:25] <belkinsa> I know, but which one?  Randal or the other?
[01:29] <nigelb> Oh. the other guy.
[01:29] <belkinsa> I figured it had to be him.
[01:32] <hggdh> Alberto. He is extremely interested, but does not seem to accept he might not be always correct.
[01:46] <pleia2> czajkowski: no, I even had to look up where it is (+2 hrs from here)
[07:31] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <nigelb> Morning dholbach, did you have a good weekend?
[07:40] <dholbach> yes, very much so - how was yours?
[07:40] <czajkowski> nigelb: aye Jon is ansibling loving atm, and that was his co worker who replied with the script
[07:41] <nigelb> dholbach: Pretty good!
[07:41] <dholbach> :-)
[07:41] <nigelb> czajkowski: It's the new awesomness :)
[07:41]  * nigelb is also a huge fan
[07:42] <czajkowski> nigelb: also what gave it away that it was ansible?
[07:42] <czajkowski> that bit wasnt clear to me
[07:43] <nigelb> czajkowski: I write and read ansible quite a lot. It looked exactly like one of my scripts!
[07:44] <czajkowski> ah ok
[07:44] <nigelb> I mean, the general structure
[07:44] <czajkowski> :)
[07:47] <popey> dholbach: hope you don't mind me mailing out about UOS, pleia2 needed it for UWN
[07:47] <dholbach> not at all
[07:48] <dholbach> thanks for taking care of it
[07:48] <dholbach> I'll mail the -announce lists in a bit
[07:48] <popey> it was forwarded by lyz I think
[07:49] <dholbach> ok, I'll mail u-d-a too
[10:05] <popey> czajkowski: http://hoffice.nu/en/what-is-hoffice/ looks cool
[10:07] <czajkowski> popey: ohhhh :D
[10:07] <czajkowski> popey: actually we have a co working day tomorrow if you fancy ?
[10:07] <czajkowski> bah not tomrorow
[10:07] <czajkowski> wednesday
[10:08] <czajkowski> also wrong channel for this part of the conversation :)
[12:31] <dholbach> davidcalle, how is the deployment coming along or should I ask a different question? :)
[12:33] <dholbach> nevermind, just checked the ticket
[12:39] <davidcalle> dholbach, it's coming, one day, maybe, probably ;) Looks like it's almost there (tm)
[12:40] <dholbach> davidcalle, so the only known issue right now is that some JS can't be loaded?
[12:41] <davidcalle> dholbach, afaict, yes. It should be a matter of setting a new variable.
[12:42]  * dholbach crosses fingers then
[13:08] <balloons> good morning!
[13:14] <popey> hello balloons
[13:21] <jose> ohai
[13:21] <belkinsa> o/ akk
[13:21] <belkinsa> all*
[15:30] <popey> hangout time!
[16:12] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone - see you all tomorrow!
[16:34] <balloons> one little email on a friday afternoon turned into pages of drama. As they say, a river begins with a single drop of water
[16:40] <czajkowski> balloons: yes utter joy for peoples weekend :( ruined for many
[16:42] <balloons> I was too busy to read emails this past weekend, so I suppose I was spared until this morning
[16:42] <balloons> on the positive side, it's nice to see discussions happening on the list!
[16:44] <czajkowski> balloons: hmm interesting postive view :)
[16:45] <czajkowski> balloons: unfortunately to some it was demotivating and frustrating
[16:46] <balloons> I'm a realist, but I can recognize positives. Lots of people contributed to the discussion, I'll take that as a good thing. Perhaps it helps
[16:47] <czajkowski> :)


[01:28]  * calc hopes he didn't damage his car tonight, had to drive through water :\
[01:33] <ebroder> Hmm...I didn't realize I wasn't joined. Sorry
[04:14] <jtholmes> popey, are you still around
[04:28] <jtholmes> popey i have a question about screencasts
[04:39] <nhandler> jtholmes: popey is probably sleeping right now. I would suggest either sending him an email or /msg, or trying to contact him tomorrow
[04:56] <jtholmes> nhandler, ok thx not important tonight
[06:04] <LaserJock> does anybody happen to know if it'd be possible to promote packages in Jaunty?
[06:06] <slangasek> it's not, no
[06:06] <LaserJock> figured, just thought I'd ask
[06:07] <slangasek> once the release is done, no changes are made to the release pocket; and promoting a package in the -updates pocket would just be confusing
[06:07] <LaserJock> I've got a regression and I don't know how to fix it otherwise
[06:07] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think "we're SRU'ing a copy of a lib into Main" would fly
[06:10] <slangasek> generally not
[06:10] <slangasek> what's the regression?
[06:11] <LaserJock> bug #359517
[06:12] <LaserJock> the new upstream release of indi got new package names, but kstars wasn't transitioned
[06:12] <LaserJock> but apparently building with the old indi doesn't give the desired result
[06:13] <LaserJock> so I guess the task would be to figure out how to get kstars to work properly with the older version
[06:13] <ScottK> LaserJock: That or 'fix' it in -backports where nothing cares about Main/Universe
[06:14] <ScottK> That'll cause other problems though
[06:17] <ScottK> Good night.
[06:17]  * ScottK heads to bed.
[06:17] <LaserJock> night
[06:20] <ScottK> LaserJock: Would you please ping me?
[06:20] <LaserJock> ScottK: ping
[06:20] <ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
[06:21]  * calc gone to bed too
[06:23] <LaserJock> what is the general opinion of using PPAs for this sort of thing?
[06:23] <LaserJock> i.e. either temporary fixes of fixes that can't make it into -updates for whatever reason?
[06:25] <LaserJock> s/of/or/
[06:28] <wgrant> LaserJock: PPAs aren't such pure evil now that they're signed, and there are quite a few semi-official ones.
[06:29] <LaserJock> I wonder if I could put a easy fix kstars in ~edubuntu-dev PPA and put it on edubuntu.org as a workaround
[06:29] <LaserJock> *an
[07:09] <pitti> Good morning
[07:20] <dholbach> good morning
[08:48] <geser> good morning
[08:52] <Keybuk> mvo: interesting, update-manager popped up this morning and its lists were out of date
[09:17] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: how does bug 241904 look to you?
[09:18] <mvo> Keybuk: oh? how much out of date? what do the timestamps in /var/lib/apt/periodic/update-success-stamp look like?
[09:22] <pitti> oh, is karmic now open for development?
[09:22] <Keybuk> mvo: I installed updates yesterday
[09:22] <Keybuk> today update-manager shows the same updates until I click Check
[09:22] <dholbach> pitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic says "Active Development" and not "Pre-Release Freeze" anymore
[09:23] <pitti> \o/
[09:23] <dholbach> I didn't see an announce either though
[09:24] <pitti> I flush the karmic unapproved queue then
[09:24] <pitti> I saw people doing uploads, so that should be okay
[09:24] <pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: ^ FYI
[09:24] <pitti> time to upload crack!
[09:24]  * pitti uploads new hal
[09:25] <slangasek> pitti: yah, I got to step 22, hadn't gotten any farther yet :)
[09:28] <slangasek> pitti: perhaps you could write a quick mail to u-d-a?
[09:28] <pitti> slangasek: will do
[09:29] <Keybuk> pitti: does new hal use libvolume-id or libblkid?
[09:31] <pitti> Keybuk: volume-id
[09:31] <pitti> it hasn't really changed a lot in ages
[09:31] <pitti> I'm going to package DK-disks soon
[09:32] <Keybuk> *nods*
[09:32]  * Keybuk peeks at the incoming crazy crack
[09:32] <Keybuk> +config DEVTMPFS
[09:32] <Keybuk> +       string "Create a kernel maintained /dev tmpfs (EXPERIMENTAL)"
[09:32] <Keybuk> +       depends on HOTPLUG
[09:34] <pitti> slangasek: done (shamelessly stolen from jaunty announcement)
[09:34] <Keybuk> udev and devfs had a lovechild!
[09:34] <slangasek> \o/
[09:35] <slangasek> Keybuk: isn't devfs udev's uncle? :P
[09:35] <Keybuk> slangasek: devfs was a very bad uncle
[09:35] <Keybuk> it liked udev to play special games in the bath
[09:36] <slangasek> I have high hopes for their offspring
[09:40] <Keybuk> slangasek: the basic idea being that the kernel has a tmpfs internally, and it mknods in there as it makes entries in sysfs
[09:40] <Keybuk> you mount that tmpfs as /dev
[09:40] <Keybuk> then udev simply adjusts it, e.g. renames or permissions
[09:41] <slangasek> oh, we're having an actual technical conversation now
[09:41] <slangasek> :)
[09:42] <ogra_> Keybuk, how does that work with /dev/console and the other few devices the kernel needs in advance
[09:43] <Keybuk> ogra_: the kernel doesn't need it?
[09:43] <ogra_> console ?
[09:43] <Keybuk> right
[09:43] <ogra_> hmm, why does it panic then if it has none :P
[09:43] <slangasek> because init needs it and dies miserably if it's not there
[09:43] <slangasek> that's not the kernel's fault
[09:43] <Keybuk> I think you're confusing the lack of a console and the lack of /dev/console
[09:44] <ogra_> oh, yeah, i do
[09:44] <Keybuk> the devtmpfs idea is intended to solve the "device nodes before udev is started" problem
[09:45] <ogra_> right
[09:45] <ogra_> i understood that but was wondering about /.dev
[09:45] <Keybuk> what's /.dev ?
[09:46] <ogra_> wasnt there a /.dev in initramfs ?
[09:46]  * ogra_ is probably a bit behind
[09:46] <Keybuk> I don't think so
[09:46] <Keybuk> there's a /dev/.initramfs
[09:46] <Keybuk> (which can probably be moved to /var/run)
[09:46] <ogra_> yeah, thats what i mean
[09:47] <ogra_> hmm, no, looking at it its not what i mean ... whats the pre-populated dir called that has console and a few ttys etc ?
[09:48]  * ogra_ thought that was /.dev once
[09:54] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[09:55] <mdz> ogra_: you're thinking of /dev/.static
[09:55] <mdz> which is the /dev on disk over which the tmpfs is mounted, which has persistent (but potentially wrong) device nodes
[09:57] <pitti> hey tkamppeter
[09:57] <tkamppeter> pitti, it is about the SRU bug 357732.
[10:00] <tkamppeter> I have done a second fix in pstopdf, which fixes the problem of Shaun Crampton, his PPD has the default values directly after the colon of "*Default<option>:", without space, and the current pstopdf does not support this. So I have fixed this upstream now and also in the Debian BZR of CUPS.
[10:00] <tkamppeter> I wouls like to SRU this, too to make the paper size handling safely work in all situations.
[10:02] <tkamppeter> pitti, but as the first fix is very urgent, I suggest that you put it into -updates immediately, as it renders printing non-functional for most users, and after that we put the second into -p[roposed.
[10:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: I agree, since the current patch doesn't cause regressions, it just doesn't fix it for everyone
[10:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: did you see that the second patch didn't fix it yet for Michael Gefen?
[10:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, it fixes the problem for 90 %of the users (everyone who does not use the crazy printerr tool which Shaun has used).
[10:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, I mean your followup patch
[10:05] <tkamppeter> Michael Gefen has another problem. He is once taking a PDF which reaches up to all borders and expects it to appear completely on the printout. With acroread he succeeds as it scales by default but evince does not scale. evince has also a bug that it defaults its paper size to Letter even with an A4 document and an A4 printer (it does so at least for me). So he is running into several evince or GTK Print bugs.
[10:06] <pitti> okay
[10:06] <apw> pitti, hey ... bugs tagged regression-potential are presumably now regression-released.  will someone/something do that or do we need to do it manually??
[10:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, so put the current SRU through ASAP and then we do another SRU for my second fix.
[10:07] <pitti> apw: hm, I don't know; bdmurray?
[10:07] <pitti> tkamppeter: copied
[10:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, X froze; if you replied to my "cups copied", I lost it
[10:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, I did not reply to it.
[10:14] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, I get a merge conflict when I cherrypick your trunk patch to the jaunty branch; seems that the jaunty sru and the trunk one had slightly different fixes?
[10:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded my newest version into the trunk.
[10:15] <pitti> anyway, I take the version from trunk
[10:15] <pitti> which I believe is what we need
[10:16] <tkamppeter> You can check by downloading my last pstopdf from the bug and compare.
[10:16] <ogra> slangasek, do you still take release note entries ?
[10:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, I see; the jaunty branch had an additional line: if test -n "$pagesize" && test -e "$PPD"; then
[10:16] <ogra> slangasek, bug 368079 looks like a very good candidate if so ...
[10:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, got it
[10:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: there's still al large diff between the jaunty and trunk version of pstopdf, but I got the cherrypicking now
[10:18] <tkamppeter> pitti, are you comparing with the original Jaunty or with the SRUed Jaunty (my first fix).
[10:19] <pitti> SRUed, current jaunty branch head
[10:19] <tkamppeter> What we should have is exactly my current pstopdf, the second one which I have uploaded to the bug (be careful, one of the users has also uploaded the intrepid pstopdf to the bug).
[10:20] <pitti> tkamppeter: http://paste.ubuntu.com/159895/
[10:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: anyway, I cherrypicked your latest fix, this is it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/cups/jaunty/revision/652
[10:22] <tkamppeter> pitti, I see the difference, between the two fixes I added support for custom paper sizes, but this is also important, as we got already user complaints with custom paper sizes. So include it with the custom paper size bits.
[10:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: needs another SRU bug, though, as it's quite an intrusive change
[10:23] <pitti> or is it related to this bug?
[10:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, there is another bug where we could offer this as an SRU, one moment.
[10:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, if you are in the situation of bug 338999. Only this user has printed only PDF files and so not exercised pstopdf. Seems that I have to do a test to see whether the pstopdf change is required.
[10:37] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have done a quick test now, if the input file is PostScript, custom page sizes only work with my fix.
[10:38] <pitti> tkamppeter: as I said, if you think it's a major regression, please prepare the bug for SRU and point to the bzr commit
[10:38] <pitti> for cherrypicking
[10:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, this means to report a bug and suggest it for an SRU?
[10:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: if there isn't an existing bug report for it, it's hardly important enough for an SRU
[10:41] <tkamppeter> pitti, AFAIR there is no bug on Custom PageSize, seems that because no printing dialog supports Custom PageSize it rarely happens. Seems it is more relevant for the Common Printing Dialog as then we will enter with a feature-complete dialog for the first time ever.
[10:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: let's not worry about it for SRU then
[10:42] <tkamppeter> Yes, I keep it as upstream fix and if someone complains about custom page size not working before the CPD arrives I simply attach the current upstream state of pstopdf to his bug report and mark it fixed in Karmic.
[10:43] <tkamppeter> Otherwise custom page size is really only a subject for the CPD generation.
[10:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, so I'll upload the space fix to -proposed then
[10:45] <tkamppeter> pitti, and for Karmic all my changes and fixes are already in. So if you upload CUPS to Debian the sync bot will get it to LKarmic.
[10:45] <pitti> right
[12:13] <siretart`> most spectacular bug ever: (IMO) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161/comments/28
[12:27] <cjwatson> siretart`: that's a fabulous bug
[12:28] <siretart`> :-)
[12:28]  * cjwatson targets bug 248619 for a bunch of releases
[12:29] <infinity> That's... An incredibly awesome bug.
[12:29] <siretart`> yes. Having to ask bug submitters for the day of the week they tried the package is, uhm, funny?
[12:30] <infinity> Is it wrong that I want to leave it unfixed, just due to the sheer awesome that it embodies?
[12:30] <siretart`> most funnily, the bug can only be validated tuesdays :-)
[12:37] <cjwatson> is somebody already taking care of forwarding that bug to Debian? the Debian file maintainer is rather picky, IIRC
[12:45] <ogra> infinity, dont abuse LP, just put it on t-shirts :)
[12:47] <infinity> ogra: I didn't mean "unfixed in LP", I literally meant "unfixed"... Which would qualify more as "abusing users" than "abusing LP".
[12:48] <ogra> lol, oh, then i misunderstood *g*
[12:48] <infinity> ogra: But it could become a part of Ubuntu certification training.  People would phone up help desks and say "I can't print, HALP!"... And they'd respond with "well, yeah, duh, it's Tuesday."
[12:49] <ogra> lol
[12:51] <olmari> X-)
[12:52] <highvoltage> poor techie who is called out to fix the problem, he struggles all day just to have the client phone him and say "hey don't worry, it's working again!"
[12:53] <highvoltage> just to have the same thing happen the next week, and again, and again
[12:57] <directhex> i don't like tuuuuuuuueeeeesdays! tell me why!
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> directhex - you just spoiled my day - i honestly thought it was wednesday today :(
[13:00] <ogra> seb128, so i just tried to use my ekiga for the first time since i use jaunty, where is my setup gone ?
[13:00] <directhex> chrisccoulson, it can't be wednesday, the printers aren't working!
[13:00] <seb128> ogra: why you don't ask somebody who has touched ekiga once?
[13:00] <ogra> seb128, oh, who has it ?
[13:00] <seb128> ogra: I don't use it and never worked on the package so no clue
[13:00] <seb128> ogra: nobody I think
[13:01] <seb128> kenvandine_wk did the upgrade
[13:01] <ogra> ouch
[13:01] <seb128> and pitti tested with him
[13:01] <seb128> but there is no official maintainer for it in ubuntu
[13:01] <ogra> well, ekiga wiping the whole former setup is surely worth a release note
[13:01] <seb128> it's not the case for everybody
[13:01] <ogra> pitti, ^^^ did you test with an existing VOIP setup ?
[13:01] <cjwatson> traditionally we write release notes after understanding the problem :)
[13:02] <seb128> pitti has been testing upgrades with working accounts
[13:02] <ogra> weird
[13:02] <seb128> since he spoted some config not migrated issues and got those fixes
[13:02] <seb128> got those fixed
[13:02] <ogra> well, my config wasnt migrated for sure ... and i got autoconnected to ekiga.net
[13:03] <seb128> that's a bug
[13:03] <seb128> but that doesn't mean it happens to everybody
[13:03] <ogra> i havent used ekiga since intrepid though ...
[13:03] <ogra> which is quite a while ago ... not sure how to track that down now that i started it once
[13:04] <james_w> Our house used to lose Internet connection when it got warm, it took months for the technicians they sent out to believe me.
[13:05] <james_w> "yes, it's working fine today because it is cloudy, please come back when it is sunny"
[13:07] <directhex> james_w, sounds like BT to me ^_^
[13:07] <james_w> Virgin
[13:07] <directhex> ew, even worse
[13:07] <james_w> they are generally pretty good IME, but they just couldn't quite believe it
[13:08] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: i migrated my old setup
[13:08] <kenvandine_wk> it just worked
[13:08] <kenvandine_wk> ogra: what version did you upgrade from?
[13:09] <ogra> kenvandine_wk, whatever we used in intrepid
[13:09] <pitti> ogra, seb128: yes, settings migration was something I particularly looked at, since it failed badly for 2.x->3.0 (and thus 3.0 didn't go into intrepid)
[13:09] <kenvandine_wk> the previous version we had included some patches that handled migration, but 3.2 supposedly didn't need the migration patches, it was built in
[13:09] <pitti> same here, it worked fine, and I can also create/change existing accounts
[13:10] <ogra> i cant even do the echo test atm
[13:10] <pitti> ogra: @ekiga.net service is broken more often than not, though
[13:11] <pitti> ogra: does it work with the canonical account or any other?
[13:11] <ogra> no
[13:11] <kenvandine_wk> ogra: yeah, i can't use ekiga.net most of the time it seems
[13:11] <ogra> thats what i meant
[13:11]  * pitti has a diamondcard account which has never failed so far
[13:11] <ogra> not using ekiga.net here
[13:11] <pitti> confirmed, @ekiga echo test doesn't work ATM
[13:11] <pitti> Canonical account works fine
[13:13] <ogra> hmm
[13:14] <ogra> seems i'm properly connected to my canonaicl account ... looks more like an issue with the audio settings
[13:14] <kenvandine_wk> errors i get connecting to ekiga are always server side, i have tried debugging it
[13:14] <kenvandine_wk> the error is server hungup
[13:14] <kenvandine_wk> ekiga.net that is
[13:15] <ogra> yes, as i said before i'm not using ekiga.net
[13:17]  * ogra wonders where to disable STUN and NAT ... seems the options arent there anymore
[14:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, are you maintaining the hal package?
[14:46] <cjwatson> doko: do you have any thoughts on what should be done with the glibc sparc test failure?
[14:47] <ogra> .oO(throw it at NCommander until it stops failing)
[14:47] <ogra> he is eager to fix such stuff and has the HW at home
[14:48] <cjwatson> I care because the last version that built is immediately before we turned off the annoying fwrite warn_unused_result attribute, so anything that stops bothering to take account of that FTBFS on sparc
[14:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: ^- feel free :-)
[14:51] <rtg> cjwatson: whats the story on debootstrap and karmic?
[14:53] <cjwatson> rtg: it works
[14:53] <cjwatson> as long as you have karmic's debootstrap, anyway
[14:53] <rtg> cjwatson: ok, maybe I'm just too stupid to find the right version.
[14:53] <cjwatson> you need 1.0.13
[14:53] <rtg> jaunty backports, right?
[14:53] <cjwatson> not yet, but I'll shove it in there now
[14:53] <ogra> just pull it directly from karmic
[14:53] <cjwatson> as ogra says
[14:54] <rtg> doh! ko.
[14:54] <rtg> ok, even
[14:55] <cjwatson> it'll be in jaunty-backports in a couple of hours if you prefer
[14:56] <rtg> cjwatson: thanks
[14:56] <cjwatson> of course that's not to say that the base system will actually all manage to install correctly, at least once we start syncing the world
[14:56] <cjwatson> if you're desperate you can debootstrap jaunty and then upgrade the chroot
[14:56] <doko> cjwatson: hmm, debian does ignore the test on kfreebsd-*, have to turn on the sparc to check.
[15:05] <rtg> cjwatson: not desperate, but I would like to get the Karmic kernel building using the new toolchain soon. I'll figure it out.
[15:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I do
[15:34] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have moved bug 368553 to you now.
[15:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: I saw that one
[15:35] <pitti> I'll get to it
[15:47] <doko> pitti, cjwatson: please could you demote java-gcj-compat (source & binaries)?
[15:51] <cr3> what's the wiki page explaining how versions should be named?
[15:58] <cjwatson> cr3: versions of what?
[15:59] <cr3> cjwatson: packages, like 1.0-ubuntu1~ppa2 for example
[15:59] <cjwatson> doko: it's not in component-mismatches, and a bunch of stuff still depends/build-depends on it - you sure?
[15:59] <cjwatson> cr3: policy manual
[15:59] <cjwatson> you construct versions by understanding the rules by which they are compared
[16:00] <doko> cjwatson: gcj-* does provide it
[16:00]  * cjwatson tries to work out why it hasn't fallen out of c-m then
[16:02] <cjwatson> doko: should it perhaps just be removed?
[16:02] <cjwatson> I suspect that as long as it's in the archive it will sometimes end up being chosen in preference to some other package providing it
[16:02] <cjwatson> mixed real/virtual dependencies are tricky
[16:02] <doko> cjwatson: ok, removal is fine as well
[16:03] <doko> maybe block it syncing from debian
[16:03] <cjwatson> doko: oh, the Provides will have no effect on versioned dependencies
[16:04] <cjwatson> I think there are a few of those
[16:04] <doko> cjwatson: yes, known, there are just a few (openjdk, OOo in main)
[16:04] <cjwatson> the only downside of removal is that it will not be possible to go back to gcj-4.3 if 4.4 fails to build some things
[16:06] <doko> well, we default to openjdk anyway, so we have another alternative
[16:06] <cjwatson> mm, right
[16:07] <doko> and I'm wondering why OOo still uses java-gcj-compat ...
[16:08] <cjwatson> doko: ok, removed and sync-blacklisted
[16:08] <cjwatson> we may be able to resurrect it if you find out you need it back
[16:09] <doko> hope I don't need it ...
[16:39] <fbond> Hi.  I have an 8.04 machine that locks up after hours or days with an X app running.  I'm trying to pin point the problem so I can file an appropriate bug.  I don't see anything telling in kern.log, the X log, etc.  What can I do to get the system to give me more useful information?
[16:41] <d1b> hi is ubuntu aware of the sctp poc attack code out ?
[16:41] <d1b> or should i ask on ubuntu harded ?
[16:41] <d1b> http://kernelbof.blogspot.com/2009/04/kernel-memory-corruptions-are-not-just.html#comments
[16:48] <jdong> d1b: cool exploit, but any time kernel memory corruption is present it is not surprising that it is game over.
[16:48] <pitti> a friend of mine upgraded to jaunty and applauds us for the boot speed; passing on the credit
[16:49] <jdong> the only crime here seems to be that most vendors (including ourselves) did not accurately portray the extent of the exploit.
[16:51] <d1b> jdong: i think sctp is not used by the majority of people and shouldn't be compiled by default on desktop systems.
[16:52] <d1b> the issue is that some one else is going to mod this and post it on another site / just use it so it exploits all platforms no matter the arch /kernel....
[16:53] <amitk> d1b: sctp is a module
[16:53] <d1b> where possible...
[16:53] <jdong> d1b: I don't see sctp enabled on any of my stock Ubuntu systems
[16:53] <NCommander> Anyone in the mood to sponsor seed changes in karmic?
[16:53] <NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds/+bug/368677
[16:53] <d1b> amitk: good, i didn't check the ubuntu config.
[16:53] <jdong> the user has to enable it himself
[16:53] <d1b> jdong: so you would need to load a sctp application. i take it
[16:54] <jdong> d1b: run a SCTP server on the host to be attacked, correct.
[16:54] <jdong> d1b: of course, my deepest condolences to those who do run SCTP servers on unpatched servers :)
[17:02]  * jdong is still a bit disappointed there isn't a GUI configurable option for update-notifier behavior
[17:06] <ogra> jdong, pgtk and glade ;) provide one in a ppa should be less than 10 lines of code
[17:06] <ogra> *pygtk
[17:15] <cjwatson> NCommander: why is usplash present on hppa and ia64 in the first place if it doesn't work?
[17:15] <cjwatson> NCommander: if the package weren't present, then it wouldn't be included in ubuntu-desktop
[17:15] <cjwatson> germinate-update-metapackage is smart like that
[17:16] <NCommander> cjwatson, it used to be built on those architectures, but no longer. ubuntu-desktop tries to pull it in via the artwork package (which is installable and has a hard depends)
[17:17] <ogra> should be a recommends
[17:17] <infinity> cjwatson: It's not still around...
[17:17] <infinity> cjwatson: It hasn't been in the archive on those arches since intrepid...
[17:17] <cjwatson> in that case I don't get why ubuntu-meta's ./update is pulling it in, and want to investigate that, not band-aid around it with seed fixes
[17:18] <ogra> and actually its not even a recommends on jauntys ubuntu-artwork
[17:18] <cjwatson> that said, usplash-theme-ubuntu needs to be removed from the archive on those architectures
[17:18] <ogra> Depends: human-theme (>= 0.14), ubuntu-gdm-themes, ubuntu-wallpapers
[17:18] <ogra> no usplash at all, i would suspect the artwork package is outdated on these arches
[17:18] <cjwatson> ogra: I don't think this is remotely relevant here
[17:19] <NCommander> cjwatson, ogra: heres the output of apt-get install ubuntu-desktop on HPPA http://paste.ubuntu.com/160087/
[17:19] <NCommander> (it looks similar on ia64)
[17:19] <cjwatson> NCommander: yes, I know the ubuntu-desktop dependencies are wrong. What I want to know is *why*.
[17:19] <cjwatson> because germinate-update-metapackage is supposed to filter out nonexistent packages from the dependencies
[17:19] <ogra> NCommander, right, and no artwork package in there ...
[17:20] <infinity> cjwatson: If the theme is kicking around, that would explain the why.
[17:20] <cjwatson> infinity: that would explain it for the theme
[17:20] <infinity> cjwatson: Since usplash is a direct dependency of the theme, no?
[17:20] <cjwatson> it doesn't explain why there's a direct Depends: usplash from ubuntu-desktop on ia64, too
[17:20] <infinity> cjwatson: germinate won't filter out required deps, will it?
[17:21] <ogra> right, usplash is a direct dep
[17:21] <cjwatson> sure should
[17:21] <cjwatson> that's why it bothers to fetch package lists
[17:21] <cjwatson> packages listed in seeds are only "required" if they actually exist on the architecture being germinated
[17:21] <NCommander> Is it possible usplash never got removed from disk on those archs?
[17:22] <cjwatson> it's not on disk now
[17:22] <NCommander> Oh ...
[17:22] <cjwatson> it could be that it was only removed after ubuntu-meta was last updated
[17:25] <MrSunshine_> hmm, befs driver, why isnt that shipped with ubuntu ? ... atleast as a module it hink it should be in there :/
[17:25] <infinity> cjwatson: Unlikely.  It hasn't been built on hppa/ia64 since 0.5.21, I believe.
[17:26] <cjwatson> it hasn't been *built*, but we often take a while to get round to ports-architecture NBS removals
[17:26] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah.  0.5.21 added the arch restriction.  And that was way back in intrepid.
[17:26] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, fair point on the NBS...
[17:26] <cjwatson> for example intrepid still has the 0.5.20 binaries
[17:27] <cjwatson> and I'm only just removing all the usplash theme binaries now, even though they can't have built for ages
[17:27] <infinity> #  Removal requested  on 2009-04-09.
[17:27] <infinity> # Deleted on 2009-04-09 by Steve Langasek
[17:27]  * NCommander tests ubuntu-meta
[17:28] <NCommander> cjwatson, I didn't know that about seeds ignoring packages that didn't exist. Sorry about the noise :-/
[17:28] <infinity> cjwatson: Last meta was in March, so your guess is probably spot on there.
[17:28] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/karmic_outdate_all.txt is a pretty good demonstration of how bad the arch-specific NBS problem has got
[17:28] <infinity> cjwatson: Didn't realise the binaries were so recently removed.
[17:28] <cjwatson> NCommander: it'll be worth giving it a try in about 1.5 hours, when the removal takes effect
[17:28] <cjwatson> (of usplash-theme-ubuntu)
[17:29] <cjwatson> infinity: where do you see the removal comment? I had trouble finding it
[17:29] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'll close the bug and delete the branches, thank you for looking into this; ubuntu-desktop on HPPA is now installable :-)
[17:29] <infinity> cjwatson: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/hppa/usplash
[17:29] <cjwatson> NCommander: the ubuntu-meta task is still valid
[17:29] <cjwatson> I closed the seeds task
[17:29] <cjwatson> infinity: ah, thanks
[17:36] <cjwatson> apw: so, bug 251242; do you care if I upload it first to karmic as 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu4, and then SRU to jaunty-proposed as 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu3.1?
[17:37] <apw> cjwatson, that seems most appropriate
[17:38] <apw> thanks for looking at that for me
[17:40] <pitti> cjwatson: why not copy jaunty-proposed to karmic after it built and verified?
[17:40] <pitti> (that's how I treat the majority of SRUs right now)
[17:40] <pitti> I mean, toolchain wise it's of course better to upload
[17:41] <apw> this is a diificult time i guess while we are waiting for the toolchain in karmic to settle down
[17:43] <cjwatson> apw: err, hang on, I just noticed that debian/kexec-tools.postinst sets an initial value for this
[17:43] <cjwatson> pitti: *shrug* it's done now :)
[17:44] <pitti> cjwatson: I just wondered if you generally consider it bad to copy -proposed to karmic
[17:44] <apw> cjwatson, yeah though it only does that if the file is not present and the file is present as its included in our package
[17:44] <cjwatson> apw: that said, I don't think that /etc/default/kexec will ever not exist while the postinst is running
[17:44] <cjwatson> right
[17:44] <cjwatson> pitti: not especially, but now that the archive is open I'd rather we do separate uploads so that things are built with the new toolchain
[17:44] <apw> i was assuming that that was coming from debian and not changing it would minimise a merge
[17:44] <apw> i am happy to correct that one too if its better that way
[17:44] <cjwatson> apw: I think it's OK as is, as long as people make sure to test both fresh installations and upgrades
[17:45] <apw> from my reading the upgrade path is to install the default file if its missing, and update the value in whatever file is there based on the odl format file
[17:46] <apw> so i believe it will do the right thing in those cases, but yes it should be tested
[17:46] <cjwatson> the whole postinst stuff is rubbish and to be ignored AFAICS
[17:46] <cjwatson> oh, hmm
[17:46] <apw> the only bit that looked like it might do something was the copy over of the old value at the end
[17:46] <apw> but that is independannt of the ensure there is a file part
[17:46] <cjwatson> no, the postinst does need to be fixed - it's an explicit policy violation and will clobber whatever's in the file with the value stored in debconf
[17:46] <apw> and that part should be a noop
[17:47] <cjwatson> I don't think it will be a no-op
[17:47] <apw> is that was already wrong or will be wrong now
[17:47] <cjwatson> in fact, its behaviour will depend on whether the package is installed with dpkg -i or with apt-get
[17:47]  * apw looks at cjwatson in horror
[17:48] <cjwatson> if dpkg -i is being used, the config script will run at postinst time, and will grab whatever value was set by dpkg's conffile handling
[17:48] <cjwatson> if apt-get is being used, the config script will run at preconfiguration, before unpacking the new package, and will thus have the effect of resetting the value that was in place beforehand
[17:48] <cjwatson> at least that's my reading, I haven't tested it
[17:49] <cjwatson> this is why policy says you MUST NOT mix dpkg conffile handling and maintainer script configuration file handling
[17:49] <apw> ok so it sounds like its plain wrong before hand.  i think you are saying we should not have a conf file at all here
[17:49] <apw> and just use the postinst script
[17:50] <cjwatson> there are two options: support configuration using debconf, or don't ship the file in the .deb
[17:50] <cjwatson> sorry, that's a misstatement
[17:50] <cjwatson> the two options are: support configuration using debconf and don't ship the file in the .deb; or ship the file in the .deb and don't support configuration using debconf
[17:51] <cjwatson> I wouldn't advocate debconf configuration for this if you were starting from scratch since it's so simple, but since it's already there that changes things a bit
[17:51] <apw> so would i right in saying removing the static file totally and fixing the postinfst would achieve that?
[17:51] <cjwatson> I believe so, but test that
[17:52] <apw> cjwatson, thanks for the input... will go do that
[17:52] <cjwatson> what would you like to happen on upgrades?
[17:52] <apw> my fealing is you shouldn't change things people have selected already
[17:52] <cjwatson> my suggestion would be that on upgrade *to this version* we should override user configuration, since we can't tell whether they explicitly chose it or not and we think most people want it off
[17:52] <apw> so if they have a value we should honour it on upgrade.
[17:52] <cjwatson> but that future upgrades should not override user configuration
[17:53] <apw> and how does one tell the difference
[17:53] <cjwatson> i.e. 'if dpkg --compare-version "$2" lt 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu3.1; then db_set kexec-tools/load_kexec false; fi', probably in the config script
[17:54] <cjwatson> properly indented of course
[17:54] <apw> ok thanks ... will go play ...
[17:54] <cjwatson> sorry, --compare-versions not --compare-version
[17:54] <cjwatson> debconf-devel(7) describes the arguments passed to the .config script
[17:55] <cjwatson> the policy manual describes the arguments passed to the .postinst script
[17:55] <apw> excellent thanks
[18:01] <andre_pl> where can I find documentation on the notification system?
[18:16] <mdz> andre_pl: what kind of documentation?
[18:16] <mdz> andre_pl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines are all potentially good starting points
[18:17] <andre_pl> mdz: i'm trying to figure out why the volume controls are able to appear over top of an mplayer window, but a custom notification that I create wont appear at all
[18:19] <mdz> andre_pl: if the answer isn't there, try MacSlow
[18:19] <mdz> though he may be offline for the evening
[18:22] <andre_pl> mdz: I found it actually, set_urgency(2) does the trick, thanks
[18:27] <davidbarth> andre_pl: ping? mdz mentioned you had a notification dev. question
[18:27] <mdz> davidbarth: <andre_pl> mdz: I found it actually, set_urgency(2) does the trick, thanks
[18:27] <Adri2000> mvo: got time to take a look at my bug?
[18:27] <davidbarth> andre_pl: ah, too late then; however, be sure to check the guidelines at:
[18:28] <davidbarth> andre_pl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines
[18:28] <davidbarth> andre_pl: also, you may want to join #ayatana where the team is discussing n-osd/indicators development
[18:29] <davidbarth> andre_pl: or join the ayatana mailing list at: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
[18:29] <davidbarth> andre_pl: see you there
[18:35] <andre_pl> davidbarth: thanks!
[18:48] <james_w> anybody know a command to print all the users in a group?
[18:49] <elmo> getent group foo
[18:49] <elmo> ?
[18:50] <james_w> thanks elmo
[18:57] <NCommander> We're not doing a mass give-back for karmic like we did for jaunty?
[19:01] <james_w> NCommander: probably will, but the initial Debian sync is enough of a flood for now I would expect
[19:09] <devfil> cjwatson: do you know when packages will be "autosynced" from Debian?
[19:09] <NCommander> so gdb seems to be hosed on HPPA
[19:09] <NCommander> figures
[19:52] <cjwatson> devfil: seb128 was going to start that shortly
[19:52] <seb128> I'm still ;-)
[19:53] <devfil> ok, thanks :)
[19:53] <seb128> I'm just waiting in gcj-4.4 as requested by doko
[19:54] <seb128> it's built on everywhere but armel where it's building
[20:15] <mvo> Adri2000: what was the bugnumer again?
[20:23] <Adri2000> mvo: bug #338419
[20:24] <mvo> Adri2000: thanks, that is indeed a app-install-data bug it seems, let me have a look where that problem comes from
[20:25] <jdong> jdstrand: wrt bug 331534, hardy is actually affected. /etc/apparmor.d/force-complain's presence will bork out apparmor-utils helpers
[20:25] <jdong> I think that's worth SRU'ing; I'll prep a debdiff
[20:31] <mvo> Adri2000: thanks, I updated the bug
[20:31] <jdstrand> jdong: that is cool. what I was trying to say in the bug was that 'disable' didn't cause a problem in hardy, not that 'force-complain' did not. in other words, hardy is affected by the presence of 'force-complain' and intrepid is by both 'force-complain' and 'disable'
[20:32] <jdong> jdstrand: ah, understood. I thought you might have overlooked that Hardy was affected by force-complain
[20:32] <jdong> I stuck a quick debdiff against the latest hardy package if that helps quicken the SRU process
[20:33] <jdong> oddly within the past week I had two different people whine about this one, so either the apparmor moons are aligning or I'm hanging out with hypochondriacs ;-)
[20:34] <jdstrand> somehow that slipped by... :/
[20:34] <jdstrand> I'll get the SRUs going for them
[20:34] <jdong> thanks, no worries :)
[20:35] <Adri2000> mvo: ok
[20:35] <Snova> What is an SRU?
[20:36] <jdong> !sru
[20:36] <Snova> Ah.
[20:37] <Snova> So, basically any updates I get from a stable release (I think backports don't count).
[20:37] <jdong> Snova: correct, for the -updates repository
[22:16] <EtienneG> hey guys
[22:17] <EtienneG> I am troubleshooting a bug in the netboot installer, and wants to get the syslog and partman log for a bug report
[22:17] <EtienneG> any suggestion as to how to get them *out* of the system I am installing?
[22:17] <EtienneG> there must be a way, but I am baffled
[22:58] <mathiaz> EtienneG: you can try to scp the files
[22:58] <EtienneG> mathiaz, yes,, but there is no scp executable in the d-i shell
[22:58] <mathiaz> EtienneG: from a console, anna-install openssh-client-udeb (IIRC) and then you can scp them
[22:58] <EtienneG> mathiaz, ha HA!
[22:58] <EtienneG> thanks a lot
[23:03] <bigon> mmm I've just seen that in pbuilder python install modules inside site-package by default now
[23:03] <bigon> right?
[23:05] <geser> bigon: how were the modules installed during the build?
[23:18] <cjwatson> EtienneG: or you could go back to the installer main menu and select "save debug logs"
[23:19] <EtienneG> cjwatson, interesting, I did not knew about that option
[23:19] <EtienneG> cjwatson, as you are around, I have a quick one
[23:20] <EtienneG> in a partman-auto/expert_recipe, can you flag more than one partition with $primary{ } ?
[23:21] <cjwatson> EtienneG: yes
[23:21] <EtienneG> cjwatson, somehow, it does not work for me
[23:21] <EtienneG> cjwatson, I will do a bit more test and report a bug if I cannot get it to work
[23:22] <cjwatson> please do
[23:22] <cjwatson> I can probably diagnose it easily given the logs
[23:22] <cjwatson> there are of course the usual constraints on primary partitions
[23:23] <EtienneG> cjwatson, which log would you need?  partman and syslog?
[23:23] <cjwatson> error handling might not be very good if you inadvertently violate them
[23:23] <cjwatson> EtienneG: yes. installer bugs almost never need anything else
[23:23] <EtienneG> cjwatson, by constraints, you mean the limit of four?
[23:23] <bigon> geser: the module was installed in site-package directory (so the pkg doesn't FTBFS) but python doesn't find the module at runtime
[23:24] <cjwatson> and the fact that you can't put logical partitions between primary partitions
[23:24] <cjwatson> and the fact that if you have any logical partitions the limit is three not four
[23:24] <EtienneG> cjwatson, yes, of course
[23:24] <EtienneG> got that
[23:24] <cjwatson> and quite possibly others I've forgotten :)
[23:24] <EtienneG> actually, I am trying with only two partition, both primary
[23:24]  * cjwatson is not the DOS partition table format's biggest fan
[23:25] <EtienneG> ha, legacy!
[23:26] <EtienneG> although we are not really bound to it
[23:26] <cjwatson> I might have screwed up the code in partman-auto for $primary{ }, obviously. I only really implemented it in order to cope with BIOSes that throw their toys out of the pram if there isn't at least one primary partition
[23:28] <cjwatson> though nowadays partman-auto is smart enough to ensure that there's at least one primary partition without the help of $primary{ }
[23:38] <Pollywog> I cannot find sane-backends-extras
[23:38] <Pollywog> anyone know where I can get it?
[23:40] <dtchen> Pollywog: the source package (which you've named) is in universe. did you install libsane-extras?
[23:49] <Kangarooo> Hello! I have noticed one thing.. I put ubuntu on one pc and xubuntu on laptop and when really overloaded and start to slow down.. looks strange.. sometimes window looses some graphic.. but I thought why windows has been looking ok even thou programms not so good and more buggy.. and I think that windows before shows anything it loads it completely programms graphic and when loaded grapfic things.. then it show all. .. ubuntu is not doing that..
[23:50] <Kangarooo> if programm is showing only when all graphic is laoded then it gives feeling that programm is running great and smooth :)


[00:12] <mattfly> I found out that s2disk is not working
[00:12] <mattfly> @DarinMille did you saw my comment on your bug report? Installing the kernel 4.16.0 or 4.16.1 solves that sddm black screen problem
[00:13] <mattfly> By the way on my hibernation attempts i get s2disk: Could not use the resume device (try swapon -a). Reason: No such device
[00:13] <mattfly> even though my swap is already enabled
[00:14] <mattfly> looks a bit like this old bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uswsusp/+bug/404085
[00:53] <BionicMac> Hello. Muon package manager gives this error: "Authentication Error - This operation cannot continue since proper authentication was not provided". This error started when after I gave the wrong password while attempting an upgrade. wHICH IS GOOD. alTHOUGH, i DON'T WANT TOREBOOT BECAUSE OF THIS. Muon never asks me again for the admin password since I entered it wrong. Any attempt to try "Check for
[00:53] <BionicMac> Updates/Apply Changes/Full Upgrade" etc etc... I get the same error. How do I correct this? Thanks in advance.
[00:53] <BionicMac> Sorry for caps lock incident.
[00:55] <BionicMac> I already upgraded via command line. I would like to know this answer though. Thank you so much in advance.
[00:57] <BionicMac> This is a screenshot. -> https://i.imgur.com/tZutPmc.jpg
[01:13] <oerheks> why -s full-upgrade ??
 @mattfly, 4.16.1did not fix my issue nor did the Nvidia 396 driver.  But, typing my password in the blank sddm screen did log me in with plasma and krunner running correctly.
[01:38] <BionicMac> oerheks: I just want to see the output at that point. To make sure apt/discover/muon were showing the same information.
[01:38] <BionicMac> s/want/wanted/
[01:40] <BionicMac> BionicMac: Now I just need to satisfy muon with a sudo password. Las time this happened a reboot corrected it. Must be a fix without a reboot.
[01:40] <BionicMac> oerheks: ^
[01:41] <BionicMac> oerheks: It normally works fine and a popup dialogue asks for admin passwd and all is well. Until I type mistype that password to muon then it gives the error I mentioned.
[01:41] <BionicMac> oerheks: muon never asks again until I reboot. It just throws the error.
[01:42] <BionicMac> oerheks: I am running kubuntu 18.04 up to date.
[01:44] <BionicMac> oerheks: I upgraded via apt-get already. No problem. Muon is still showing error upon any action. I can reboot and fix muon. I can reproduce the error also.
[06:08] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:09] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:12] <BionicMac> Hello BluesKaj
[12:12] <BionicMac> Time for me to get a short rest. later.
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hi BionicMac
[14:32] <userdz1234> How to modify the kernel configuration to enable USB Network and where to find Ethernet drivers.
[20:37] <mattfly> maybe someone can help with my question: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/667833
[20:41] <Arthur_D> hi, in Settings -> Desktop Behaviour -> Screen Edges there's a checkbox saying "Tile windows by dragging them to the side of the screen" and under it says "Quarter tiling triggered in the outer 25% of the screen" and I can change the percentage. However when dragging windows around I don't get any tiling, what does it actually do?