[12:25] <Lutin> ajmitch: any news of the sparc build ?
[12:34] <Toadstool> Lutin: what's wrong with this buildd?
[12:36] <Lutin> Toadstool: nothing wrong, I just forgot to disable the x86 asm code for mlt for non-x86 archs, so I want to make sure the fix actually works ):
[12:36] <Lutin> :) rather
[12:42] <jdong> LMAO compiz slurped up a window
[12:42] <jdong> it must've gotten past upper clipping checks
[12:43] <jdong> and got above the title bar on restrict Y-axis mode...
[12:43] <jdong> then it wobbled for a little bit, and got slurped up...
[12:43] <jdong> and now I can't find it... :(
[12:50] <RAOF> jdong: I like getting wobbly confused about what a window should snap to.
[12:50] <RAOF> jdong: Then you can watch it osscilate between different positions :)
[12:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: it is a hard decision :(
[12:54] <crimsun> joejaxx: why?
[12:55] <crimsun> it has inertia; you shouldn't be concerned about existing users but potential users.
[12:56] <joejaxx> yeah
[12:56] <joejaxx> i just hope a move from the fluxbuntu name will not start another bad stigma
[12:57] <LaserJock> what's do you want to call it?
[12:57] <LaserJock> s/'s//
[12:57] <joejaxx> i do not know something that has nothing to do with the curent name
[12:58] <joejaxx> because there is that insertwindowmanagerherebuntu with it
[12:58] <joejaxx> so everyone thinks it is about fluxbox
[12:59] <joejaxx> too bad there was already the ubuntu lite project i would have probably called it that when i started it
[03:00] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:00] <ajmitch> hello
[03:01] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:08] <bddebian> Damn, another mentor e-mail.  Like I can mentor anyone :-(
[03:17] <jdong> bddebian: learn me, oh great one :D
[03:18] <bddebian> hah, yeah right
[03:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: not bad, I've never managed to get an email about mentoring yet
[03:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: I've gotten several but rarely hear back :-(
[03:19] <ajmitch> jdong: probably a wise choice
[03:19] <bddebian> jdong: See you are already smarter than me, I would have said it ;-P
[03:20] <jdong> ajmitch: You know I love you deep down inside.
[03:21] <ajmitch> I'm sure you do, very deep
[03:22] <ajmitch> saying that you're not saying something isn't really helping
[03:23] <jdong> oh come on it was not going to be anything mean
[03:23] <jdong> just.... not appropriate humor for this channel.
[03:24] <ajmitch> s/for this channel//
[03:24] <jdong> pfft there's a time and a place for that's what she said jokes
[03:24] <jdong> like.... The Office
[03:25] <jdong> or when my math teacher hands back a proof test that says "Stop working on both sides"
[03:25] <jdong> (well... he wasn't too amused at the remark....)
[03:27] <jdong> ajmitch: do you think I have a chance?
[03:27] <ajmitch> at the moment, not much
[03:28] <ajmitch> I struggle to think of what you've contributed that can be measured for motu
[03:28] <jdong> it's on my list of goals somewhere
[03:28] <jdong> just not the immediate future
[03:28] <ajmitch> eg new packages, fixes, etc
[03:28] <ajmitch> I'm sure there are some, I just don't know them
[03:31] <jdong> there's not terribly many, but I've made some contributions in that manner
[03:31] <jdong> without a doubt not enough to be significant on the MOTU radar
[03:31] <bddebian> jdong: Don't worry me, ajmitch wouldn't have me either ;-)
[03:32] <ajmitch> only because your application would be full of how much you suck, don't do anything, etc
[03:32] <ajmitch> tiring reading, really :)
[03:34] <bddebian> You have a point there :-)
[03:35] <jdong> lol
[03:35] <jdong> ajmitch definitely practices the tough love thing
[03:37] <ajmitch> why waste words on being nice?
[03:41] <jdong> I like that way of looking at it :)
[03:41] <ajmitch> so that I can get to the motu meeting
[03:45] <jdong> ajmitch: I got classes and would have a very tough time making it ot the MOTU meeting... you think putting xserver-xgl on the agenda is any good if I don't show up?
[03:46] <ajmitch> depends if the usual motu-uvf people are there
[03:46] <ajmitch> if I'm around, I'll try & remember
[04:45] <joejaxx> hello imbrandon
[04:45] <imbrandon> heya joejaxx
[04:46] <joejaxx> how have you been?
[04:51] <imbrandon> good good
[04:51] <imbrandon> busy at times but good
[04:51] <jdong> imbrandon: I'm sorry for being an ass... :(
[04:53] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon
[04:54] <imbrandon> heya jdong ajmitch
[04:54] <imbrandon> jdong, np i just needed a bit to cool off
[05:28] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:28] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock
[05:28] <LaserJock> hi guys
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> phooey - I don't have a new upstream tarball yet (expected on Friday) and the dev is in bed already
[06:42] <RAOF> For what?  Nvu?
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: yes
[06:42] <RAOF> :(
[06:44] <RAOF> That's why I like being upstream.  No pesky tarballs :)
[08:34] <siretart> morning folks
[08:36] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[08:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <ajmitch> hi
[08:51] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[08:59] <AstralJava> Morning dholbach.
[08:59] <dholbach> hi AstralJava
[09:37] <\sh> moins
[09:38] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[09:38] <\sh> wine will be uploaded in a few.
[09:55] <\sh> wine uploaded
[10:05] <Lutin> hello
[10:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: we seem to have got through most of the uvf requests in the queue except xserver-xgl
[10:10] <dholbach> ajmitch: i know
[10:10] <ajmitch> oh, and glom :)
[10:11] <ajmitch> glom looks fairly ok
[10:13] <dholbach> :-D
[10:17] <Lutin> ajmitch: was the sparc build of mlt successful ?
[10:18] <ajmitch> Lutin: eventually
[10:22] <Lutin> ajmitch: cool, thanks :)
[10:26] <Lutin> ajmitch: could you upload the debdiff please ? it's at http://dunnewind.net/~lutin/code/mlt_0.2.2+cvs20070213-0ubuntu2.debdiff :)
[10:32] <TheMuso> Hey all BTW.
[10:35] <ajmitch> hi TheMuso
[10:35] <ajmitch> Lutin: I'll take a look
[10:36] <Lutin> ajmitch: thanks :)
[11:09] <poningru> how do I report a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets/+filebug
[11:09] <poningru> err https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets
[11:09] <poningru> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=415242
[11:09] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 415242 in gweather "Hazardous weather alerts" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[11:09] <poningru> wanna work on that
[11:09] <poningru> anyone?
[11:35] <crimsun> sweet, just closed nine bugs.
[11:38] <crimsun> ok, bed time for an hour.
[11:38] <dholbach> crimsun: good night
[11:43] <GNUro> 'lo!
[02:36] <stan1> hello
[03:05] <pirast> ajmitch, ping
[03:06] <Hobbsee> pirast: he's asleep
[03:06] <pirast> hobbsee, mhm okay.. thanks
[03:07] <pirast> hobbsee, maybe you can help me?
[03:07] <pirast> too late :-(
[03:09] <jdong> siretart: could I get you to look at the xserver-xgl UVFe?
[03:19] <siretart> bug no?
[03:36] <siretart> jdong: I've looked at it one more time, but I don't think I can decide on that. The changes are way too big for me to have good concience with approving it
[03:38] <dholbach> siretart, slomo_, crimsun, ajmitch: maybe we should point out our concerns/feelings on the bug report and make it a decision
[03:39] <siretart> k
[03:39] <jdong> my argument towards approving it is that the current xserver-xgl package is utterly useless/broken.
[03:39] <jdong> while the new one works fine. I've been running it for the two weeks just fine.
[03:40] <jdong> if we ship a broken Xgl, it's going to cause total confusion by everyone attempting to use xserver-xgl
[03:40] <jdong> and us not including it officially will simply lead to more illegitimate repositories with various half-baked attempts at updating xserver-xgl.
[03:40] <jdong> the xserver-xgl package does not have any impact on any other package
[03:40] <dholbach> which of the current bugs will it fix?
[03:41] <jdong> dholbach: bug 86841
[03:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86841 in libxrandr "compiz/beryl does not refresh content of windows" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86841
[03:41] <dholbach> there are a couple of them open and nearly all of them unconfirmed/undecided
[03:41] <jdong> basically beryl and compiz will not redraw at all with xserver-xgl in feisty
[03:41] <jdong> making the whole package useless.
[03:42] <jdong> bug 89716 too
[03:42] <dholbach> is it a libxrandr bug or xserver-xgl bug?
[03:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89716 in xserver-xgl "White screen with compiz (xgl and comp with different libGL to compiz?)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89716
[03:42] <jdong> it's a libxrandr ABI change that caused it
[03:42] <jdong> a xserver-xgl bug for Xgl users
[03:43] <jdong> an AIGLX bug (fixed by rebuild/xorg 7.2 upload) for AIGLX'ers
[03:43] <siretart> jdong: I've just commented on the bug
[03:44] <siretart> jdong: is it correct that only fglrx users need xserver-xgl?
[03:44] <jdong> siretart: fglrx and nvidia-legacy
[03:44] <siretart> ah. hmm i see
[03:44] <siretart> so your point is to get the package either removed or updated, right?
[03:44] <jdong> right.
[03:45] <dholbach> don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts - but for me looking at the update: I see 1) lots of bugs that look untouched, a 2) HUGE update, 3) no regular updates to the package at all
[03:45] <siretart> honestly, I'm rather for removing, but since we don't have personal package archives or something, this is probabably too harsh...
[03:45] <dholbach> to me it's almost impossible to judge if it will work out or now
[03:46] <dholbach> that's why I didn't comment any further on it
[03:46] <jdong> dholbach: from what your'e saying, it's better to totally remove the package?
[03:46] <jdong> since the long-term maintenance of the package seems bleak?
[03:47] <dholbach> no, of course I'd like better maintenance of it - removal can't be the answer to things like that
[03:47] <siretart> dholbach: that's an interesting question for the motu council, imo: What shall we do with packages, from who we know that they are broken? until now, we rather have let them be broken in releases, which is suboptimal as well :/
[03:47] <dholbach> I just want to clarify why nobody of the five team members answered on it earlier
[03:47] <jdong> ok.
[03:47] <jdong> well, better maintenance will start by making the package work....
[03:47] <jdong> shipping a version of xserver-xgl that just starts and does not ever redraw after starting
[03:47] <jdong> just sounds illogical.
[03:48] <dholbach> of course it does... but maintenance is more than uploading a git snapshot - how willing are you to take care of the fallout of that update and further maintenance?
[03:49] <jdong> speaking for myself, I'd be glad to devote time in making sure Xgl is taken care of
[03:49] <jdong> my 3D desktop addiction depends on Xgl
[03:49] <dholbach> siretart: removal should be the last solution in any case
[03:49] <siretart> dholbach: the point is that there is no one how has time and the ability to backport the fix from the new git snapshot to what we have in feisty. at least in the timeframe to feisty release
[03:49] <jdong> and the only case of fallout is if the package starts deleting random packages everywhere.
[03:50] <jdong> the current package does not work period..... a new one can't possibly get worse.
[03:50] <dholbach> jdong: hu? what about 'usual' bug reports?
[03:50] <siretart> jdong: would you be willing to git bisect and identify the commit which makes xgl happy again?
[03:50] <jdong> siretart: yeah I can, but it's gonna probably be a huge set of changes that port Xgl over to the new Xorg 7.2 and Mesa  API
[03:51] <jdong> dholbach: I'd be glad to sift thru the usual bug reports too if it makes you happy.
[03:51] <dholbach> jdong: you don't do that to make me happy - you do that if you want to *maintain* the package
[03:52] <siretart> jdong: are you bug contact and work regularily on xserver-xgl?
[03:52] <dholbach> and make users happy and keep the package in shape
[03:52] <jdong> ok, I've bugmailed myself to the package. I will triage all xserver-xgl bugs to the best of my ability.
[03:52] <jdong> siretart: I just become bug contact; I didn't before work on xserver-xgl
[03:52] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:52] <dholbach> jdong: I don't want to talk you into it
[03:52] <siretart> huhu bddebian
[03:52] <bddebian> Hi siretart
[03:52] <jdong> dholbach: if someone more knowledgeable is willing to step up, I'd be cool with that....
[03:52] <dholbach> jdong: siretart sums it up quite well, when he says "To me this is update could mean a totally other set of bugs"
[03:52] <jdong> I am not the world's most confident person in my abilities.
[03:53] <jdong> siretart: what other kind of bugs can be generated?
[03:53] <jdong> I cannot imagine how xgl could get any worse
[03:53] <jdong> it a'ready doesn't draw.
[03:53] <jdong> hmm
[03:54] <siretart> jdong: like, well, not working any more on cards which worked before, or causing dataloss on cards you didn't test before or anything
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: it works on 0 cards right now.
[03:54] <siretart> jdong: how can you be sure?
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: and rendering opengl textures causing data loss? :)
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: because xserver-xgl is compiled against Xorg 7.0.0, does not build against current feisty
[03:55] <jdong> and I've yet to find one person in #beryl or antoher desktop effects community
[03:55] <jdong> that says Feisty xgl works
[03:55] <siretart> jdong: let's make a deal: please triage the existing bugs on xserver-xgl, mark duplicates as dups, and mention fixed bugs in your updated package.
[03:55] <dholbach> and we should have an announce somewhere
[03:55] <dholbach> that people test it and report back
[03:56] <jdong> siretart: ok, will do.
[03:56] <dholbach> maybe the team around ubuntu-desktop-effects can help with that
[03:56] <jdong> dholbach: heh I think everyone developing Ubuntu has moved on to the AIGLX framework.
[03:56] <siretart> jdong: I'm pretty surprised that an ABI break in mesa/x11 breaks xserver-xgl. if this was true, the package should have been renamed so that all depending packages are forced to be recompiled. in this case, please file a bug about this
[03:57] <jdong> siretart: there's plenty more ABI breaks caused by Xorg 7.2's upgrade
[03:57] <siretart> jdong: but I'm not an xorg guru as well. I'm just pretty surprised
[03:57] <jdong> siretart: for starters , start DrScheme and hit any menu entry
[03:57] <jdong> pow, xlib->xcb assertion failure
[03:57] <jdong> searching xcb in Launchpad reveals a bunch more
[03:58] <siretart> jdong: well, I'd consider this a bug in packaging then. ABI breakage really should be represented in the packaging
[03:58] <siretart> jdong: in xorg/xcb packaging
[03:59] <jdong> ok
[03:59] <jdong> if that's corrected, that just means all incompatible packages would be uninstallable....
[03:59] <siretart> jdong: exactly!
[03:59] <jdong> that's a great solution.
[04:00] <siretart> well, it's not that great, but at least lets us easily identify broken packages
[04:00] <siretart> hi allee!
[04:07] <jdong> *sigh*
[04:08] <AnAnt> Hello, is there a different between Edgy & Feisty in the way keystrokes are dealt with under the virtual console ?
[04:08] <jdong> maybe I do know too much about this xgl stuff
[04:08] <jdong> it's amusing how many bug numbers relating to this stuff I've committed to memory
[04:16] <jdong> siretart / dholbach: ok, these bugs are too overwhelming for me to deal with....
[04:16] <jdong> I'm not an X developer by any means
[04:16] <siretart> jdong: I totally understand your point, and let me assure you, you are not the first who comes up with the same arguments in this discussion. I e.g. remember lucas arguing with ruby very similar
[04:17] <jdong> well there's got to be a better solution for Feisty than shipping a broken version or removing it altogether....
[04:17] <siretart> ergo sum: xgl in ubuntu remains unmaintained. which is sad :(
[04:17] <dholbach> jdong: nobody asks you to fix the bugs
[04:17] <dholbach> jdong: but it helps to ask for more info and feed the information back to upstream
[04:17] <jdong> dholbach: I can't even classify the bugs in any way...
[04:17] <jdong> other than yes they happen, no they don't.
[04:17] <dholbach> ... establish wiki pages with debugging info
[04:18] <dholbach> hmhmhm
[04:18] <dholbach> that's why it's hard to do updates like that :-(
[04:18] <siretart> ton's of 'unconfirmed' bugs looks like tons of bugs nobody did even care to read about them
[04:18] <dholbach> yep
[04:19] <jdong> that's just a byfactor of the nature of Xgl....
[04:19] <jdong> it's an ugly workaround to 3D desktops
[04:19] <siretart> espc. when there are so many bugs with the same bug title
[04:19] <jdong> and it also pushes OpenGL limits on those video cards
[04:19] <jdong> yeah all these crashes with stacktraces/whatnot attached
[04:19] <jdong> they're really hard to validate or classify.
[04:20] <siretart> jdong: if a software is unmaintainable, I fear that I don't see many other options than removing :(
[04:20] <dholbach> stacktraces you can retrace and forward upstream
[04:20] <dholbach> and if you get lots of them you can probably mark lots of them as duplicates
[04:20] <dholbach> but that's work
[04:20] <jdong> I'm not sure if they are duplicates
[04:21] <siretart> dholbach: which is hard if upstream just tells you to try a later version :/ - what would really help here is if launchpad would automatically retrace the .crash files (which is planned, I assume)
[04:21] <dholbach> yes it is
[04:21] <jdong> well... I'd rather see this package removed in this case. It appears pretty unsupported and nobody wants to support it.
[04:21] <dholbach> but it's not hard to run         apport-retrace -su <bug number>              on your box
[04:21] <jdong> and those who show interest in it don't have the knowledge or time to do it
[04:22] <siretart> wow. that looks neat
[04:23] <jdong> maintaining xserver-xgl is such a oxymoron too... all the library paths are different
[04:23] <jdong> depending on your video driver....
[04:23] <jdong> you have to PRELOAD the binary's xlibmesa anyway to get Xgl to work
[04:24] <jdong> IMO this package is best pseudo-supported unofficially by Beryl repositories.
[04:24] <siretart> dholbach: apport-retrace -u seems undcoumented (?!)
[04:24] <dholbach>        -u, --unpack-only
[04:24] <dholbach>               Only unpack the additionally required packages, do not configure
[04:24] <dholbach>               them.  The additional packages are purged again after retracing.
[04:24] <dholbach>               This is particularly useful when running this program in a fake
[04:24] <dholbach>               root   environment,  when  not  every  package  can  be  cleanly
[04:24] <dholbach>               installed completely.
[04:24] <jdong> well, and these bugs don't retrace
[04:24] <jdong> they are before Doomsday
[04:24] <dholbach> apport-retrace 0.63
[04:24] <jdong> any bug before 2/20-ish will not retrace anymore.
[04:24] <PriceChild> jdong, Me and lupine were discussing putting a fixed xserver-xgl onto our repos if it wasn't fixed for feisty.
[04:25] <dholbach> jdong: that's something a maintainer needs to do
[04:25] <jdong> PriceChild: I think it's best to have the whole package moved to feisty.
[04:25] <jdong> err, beryl.
[04:25] <dholbach> jdong: ask for more info - ask people to try to reproduce etc
[04:25] <PriceChild> I'm sure we could accommodate it.
[04:25] <jdong> dholbach: now you're just sending me on an 81*2-click snipe hunt.
[04:25] <jdong> EVERY bug is like this.
[04:26] <jdong> I've just looked through the first 20
[04:26] <dholbach> jdong: what am I?
[04:26] <siretart> dholbach: you seem to have some other apport than me: apport-retrace: error: no such option: -u
[04:26] <dholbach> siretart: <dholbach> apport-retrace 0.63
[04:26] <siretart> oh, I'm still at 0.61 :)
[04:26] <dholbach> he split it into a new package
[04:26] <jdong> dholbach: trying to occupy me with a menial task so that I go away or infinitely get bogged in this.
[04:27] <jdong> going thru 81 bugs and setting NeedsInfo
[04:27] <dholbach> jdong: what?
[04:27] <dholbach> jdong: I said a couple of times, that you don't have to make me happy
[04:27] <jdong> well at this point I there's no option but to remove xserver-xgl.
[04:28] <siretart> it that's the best, then so be it. sad but true
[04:28] <dholbach> jdong: I just said what it takes to maintain software - you can't just update 3 million lines of code and let people just deal with what you did - it's hard to measure progress of such an update if you (or somebody else) didn't look at bugs before
[04:28] <jdong> nobody is willing to maintain it....
[04:28] <dholbach> jdong: I definitely didn't say "go away" or "give you a task"
[04:28] <dholbach> and I didn't mean to
[04:28] <jdong> and making it work and maintaining it seem to conflict in this case.
[04:29] <dholbach> if you look at other uvf bugs, I asked people a couple of times to look at the fallout and bug reports stemming from their updates
[04:29] <jdong> dholbach: sorry. You gave me the <do this> <do that> see? not so easy to do it. No fix.
[04:29] <dholbach> and it's quite natural to do that
[04:29] <jdong> I'm just saying in this case I see no fallout potential
[04:30] <dholbach> No, it's not easy. I agree with you on that.
[04:30] <jdong> other than xgl going on a file-deleting rampage.
[04:30] <jdong> and that is not good enough of a reason as it seems :)
[04:30] <dholbach> Ok... when I talk about "fallout" I mean bug reports which originate from the update.
[04:30] <jdong> so that leaves the only choice to be removing the package.
[04:31] <jdong> dholbach: if every program started with return 0, there would be no bug reports :)
[04:31] <jdong> any bug reports arising from this would simply mean xserver-xgl worked again.
[04:32] <dholbach> ...
[04:33] <jdong> as I said, there is not one example that anyone can come up with as to what can be worse than this package in its current, totally-broken state.
[04:34] <siretart> too bad that we don't have a 'temp. remove package' yet :(
[04:35] <jdong> IMO Xorg 7.2 should not have gone in.
[04:35] <jdong> the fact that it got in after UVF is utterly frustratingly unfair.
[04:36] <jdong> especially since it inhibits fixing several programs that it broke.
[04:36] <jdong> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=xcb+assertion&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[04:37] <jdong> ^^ that's some of the stuff broken by Xorg 7.2
[04:37] <jdong> most of which is fixed by a long stream of upstream changesets that accomodate Xorg 7.2
[04:37] <jdong> which of course are painstakenly hard to backport
[04:38] <jdong> and yay for UVF.
[04:38] <dholbach> can you follow up with that information in the bug report?
[04:39] <jdong> yeah
[04:42] <jdong> anyway, got to get to classes
[04:42] <jdong> I'll see you guys later
[04:42] <dholbach> see you
[05:00] <heinz55> http://www.drogendealer.de/cgi-bin/dd.cgi?z8nBe44s
[05:42] <dholbach> siretart: do you want to put 'removal of packages' up for discussion for the MOTU meeting later?
[05:45] <Toadstool> good morning everybody!
[05:46] <ScottK> Good morning Toadstool.
[05:46] <Toadstool> hi ScottK
[05:46] <dholbach> ok see you later for the meeting
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages?  (English and Spanish)
[07:51] <Riddell> where is the upstream version freeze exception process documented?
[07:52] <jdong> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[07:52] <shawarma> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[07:52] <shawarma> *G*
[07:52] <jdong> shawarma: I hereby sue you for IP infringement.
[07:52] <jdong> :)
[07:52] <shawarma> My irssi tells me I beat you to it. :-)
[07:52] <shawarma> You *soooo* slow.
[07:52] <shawarma> :-)
[07:53] <jdong> shawarma: well... I'm on MITNet. So I must have been faster.
[07:53] <jdong> take that.
[07:53] <shawarma> Wow. It's got a built in time machine?
[07:53] <jdong> yes :)
[07:53] <jdong> actually the internet revolves around my laptop.
[07:54] <shawarma> That's a lot of responsibility.
[07:54] <jdong> I know.
[07:54] <tonyyarusso> lol
[07:54] <stgraber> jdong answer was the first one to be show (at least here) :)
[07:54] <jdong> :)
[07:55] <tonyyarusso> I saw jdong first too
[07:55] <tonyyarusso> So, Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages?  (English and Spanish)
[07:57] <shawarma> stgraber, tonyyarusso: Bah.
[07:57] <shawarma> :-)
[07:57] <stgraber> :)
[07:58] <stgraber> shawarma: by the way, thank you for the fix for openvpn, now it's possible to configure it without using the ALT key to move the settings window.
[07:58] <stgraber> shawarma: just this little "push" thing and I'll be able to avoid the use of my ugly scripts :)
[08:00] <shawarma> stgraber: I'm working on it right now.
[08:00] <stgraber> good to hear, thank you very much
[08:02] <igor> hi all.. where can I learn about package pre-seed?
[08:03] <stgraber> Reloading internet, will certainly be disconnected ... (but that's a risk to take to have 1 more MB :))
[08:04] <tonyyarusso> igor: apt-get source ubuntu-desktop and look around
[08:04] <igor> tonyyarusso: thankz ;-0
[08:04] <igor> I will give a try
[08:04] <sladen> look around you .... just look, around you
[08:06] <shawarma> stgraber: Any preference about the text next to the checkbox?
[08:06] <stgraber> shawarma: "Pull options from the server" ?
[08:06] <shawarma> stgraber: Alright.
[08:08] <stgraber> shawarma: If you don't have an OpenVPN server configured to use "push", you can simply upload the dsc, source and diff somewhere and I'll pbuild + test it locally
[08:12] <mr_pouit> Does someone have an idea for Bug #85898 ? it fails only on buildd, so I can't really test :/
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85898 in kxgenerator "[feisty]  FTBFS" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85898
[08:14] <ajmitch> morning
[08:15] <geser> mr_pouit: install pkgbinarymangler inside your pbuilder and build the package with it, it contains the pkgtranslationstrip script
[08:15] <mr_pouit> geser: ok, i'll try this, thanks.
[08:16] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:16] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty
[08:16] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[08:20] <igor> where can I find this binary: germinate-update-metapackage
[08:21] <ajmitch> germinate
[08:21] <igor> ajmitch: thankz
[08:24] <igor> where is the content of this variable "${ubuntu-minimal:Depends} (and others)
[08:25] <geser> igor: have you looked already in debian/rules?
[08:26] <igor> no.
[08:26] <igor> i found
[08:27] <igor> for seed in minimal standard desktop; do package=ubuntu-$$seed;
[08:27] <igor> ... >> debian/$$package.substvars; (then the substvars are created)
[08:27] <igor> fine ;-)
[08:28] <igor> geser: thank you
[08:28] <igor> very smart indeed.
[08:28] <tonyyarusso> igor: text files in parent dir
[08:29] <igor> tonyyarusso: I found it
[08:29] <igor> {desktop,minima,standard}-{$ARCH}
[08:29] <igor> s/minima/minimal/g
[08:31] <igor> {desktop,minimal,standard}{,-recommends}-{$ARCH} (this fits better ;-)
[08:32] <igor> btw, im also looking for how to feed my debconf with answers (example ntpdate servers, or locales to be generated), there is any documentation explaning how to do that?
[08:33] <tonyyarusso> igor: I ran across some recently - a sec
[08:33] <igor> tonyyarusso: sure. ;-)
[08:35] <sistpoty> gpocentek: anything you'd like to add to Luka's application? if not, I'll send a mail to TB with our resolution, ok?
[08:37] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm surprised you're up so early ;)
[08:38] <sistpoty> :P
[08:38] <LaserJock> MOTU Meeting in 20min?
[08:39] <tonyyarusso> igor: This page and the various links from it may be useful: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#head-d2e2ac6138c17dbdea4fdc90935c64eadf6388d7
[08:39] <igor> tonyyarusso: thankz I will read them all ;-)
[08:39] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[08:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so they say
[08:39] <LaserJock> my wife got in a bit of a car accident this morning
[08:39] <LaserJock> so I'm not quite at work yet
[08:40] <LaserJock> so I might be a tad late to the meeting
[08:40] <ajmitch> ouch
[08:41] <siretart> huhu sistpoty, hi ajmitch, hey LaserJock! :)
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi TheMuso
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock
[08:41] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty and siretart
[08:41] <ajmitch> siretart, ltns :)
[08:41] <Toadstool> hi *
[08:41] <sistpoty> siretart: /me is just looking at bug #89573
[08:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89573 in pypanel "Pypanel packages does not include the pypanel binary" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89573
[08:42] <sistpoty> siretart: I don't know what to make of the proposed patch there...
[08:42] <siretart> ajmitch: oh, I'm around from time to time, but I'm quite busy with work :/
[08:42] <ajmitch> oh that bug
[08:42] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: ^^
[08:42] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: why do you need to change the python-path in the patch?
[08:43] <siretart> sistpoty: assuming that it fixes the problem, it seems pretty short, no? ;)
[08:44] <sistpoty> siretart: well, I'm not sure *if* it fixes the problem actually... will the binary work then?
[08:44] <siretart> but you're right. it is pretty strange why this one needs some private modules of python-xlib
[08:44] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: it's the only fix I found (it seems that python-support modules dirs aren't in python path on edgy ?)
[08:44] <siretart> I mean they are private for a reason, no?
[08:44] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I fought with python-xlib for a bit to try & get it to show
[08:44] <ajmitch> they're not meant to be private, the bug should be fixed in python-xlib
[08:44] <siretart> mr_pouit: they are, but private modules are, well, private
[08:45] <siretart> ajmitch: okay, but that's another bug then..
[08:45] <sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, I agree that this fix should rather be in python-xlib...
[08:45] <ajmitch> sistpoty: yep :)
[08:45] <siretart> so if we all guess right, the patch rather works around a bug in python-xlib
[08:45] <mr_pouit> siretart: so it's a bug of python-xlib, not pypanel...
[08:45] <siretart> so do we want to accept this workaround?
[08:45] <ajmitch> it's a bug in python-xlib, fixing that would mean having to rebuild pypanel
[08:46] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: it's both... ideally python-xlib would be fixed first, and pypanel would only be rebuild
[08:46] <sistpoty> siretart: I'm a little bit undecided on this, I guess I'd prefer having python-xlib fixed first, but it's not a strong opinion
[08:46] <siretart> and first we need to find out why it is private in python-xlib after all
[08:48] <LaserJock> ok, I'm heading to work, hopefully I'll be back in 20min or so.
[08:49] <sistpoty> later LaserJock
[08:49] <igor> tonyyarusso: it helped A LOT! Thankz.. amazing file. btw iso linux can read from network, usb or floppy?
[08:50] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok (fixing python-xlib would be a little cleaner than my workaround so). And there are only 2 packages which depends on python-xlib
[08:50] <siretart> puh
[08:50] <siretart> mr_pouit: which is the other one?
[08:50] <sistpoty> xkeysw-config
[08:51] <siretart> hm.
[08:53] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[08:53] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[08:54] <dholbach> hi sistpoty, hi ajmitch
[08:54] <bddebian> Meeting is when?
[08:54] <dholbach> hi guys
[08:54] <dholbach> 6m
[08:54] <ajmitch> dholbach: so was there some agreement on xgl?
[08:54] <ajmitch> bddebian: RSN
[08:54] <sistpoty> oh, nice... xkeysw-config is broken as well, but first and foremost due to a python2.4 anywhere in the script
[08:54] <bddebian> RSN?
[08:55] <ajmitch> Real Soon Now
[08:55] <dholbach> real soon now
[08:55] <bddebian> Ahh
[08:57] <siretart> sistpoty: wow. se we can fix 3 packages with one SRU :)
[09:00] <ajmitch> sistpoty: pypanel would still need a rebuild
[09:02] <siretart> dholbach: I've ust added the point from this afternoon to the agenda: broken packages (you'll surely remember)
[09:02] <dholbach> siretart: ok
[09:03] <tonyyarusso> igor: I think so, ya
[09:03] <igor> tonyyarusso: if it could read from network and recieve parameters from command line.. will be perfect 4 tests before final compilation. ;-)
[09:35] <bddebian> Am I missing the meeting?  I'm in a meeting at work :(
[09:35] <ajmitch> yes
[09:37] <bddebian> fruck
[09:42] <crimsun> bddebian: yeah, I'm juggling meetings too. Thankfully this other one is about professional certificates. :)
[09:42] <bddebian> :)
[09:44] <tonyyarusso> crimsun: righto
[09:44] <crimsun> tonyyarusso: yeah, my thinking is that the Debian New Maintainers' Guide already does a terrific job. The Ubuntu packaging guide could just use that as the base (more strongly than it does currently) and offer cookbook solutions.
[09:45] <tonyyarusso> crimsun: I can see that, although the Ubuntu PG is a bit friendlier than the Debian one atm, for starting with
[09:46] <crimsun> right, but the UPG can outline the points "most suitable" for new packagers, for instance
[09:46] <crimsun> a feisty+1 job, for sure
[09:48] <tonyyarusso> Even something arranged intended as an appendix to the DNMG as "First time? Some quick simplifications to get you started, then refer back once you get going" would be cool, then the rest cookbook-style maybe
[09:48] <crimsun> I'd say put that at the beginning of the UPG
[09:48] <crimsun> Most textbooks/references have something of the sort
[09:49] <tonyyarusso> Mmhmm
[10:01] <\sh> guys, regarding php4-transition...do we have to remove all php4 binary packages from the php-app/module source packages?
[10:05] <ryanakca> what does "dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address" mean?
[10:06] <Toadstool> ryanakca: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-February/000249.html
[10:07] <Lure> ryanakca: it has to be ubuntu.com afair
[10:08] <ryanakca> shucks...
[10:08] <geser> Lure: anything containing ubuntu should work
[10:08] <LaserJock> argg
[10:08] <LaserJock> did I miss everything
[10:08] <LaserJock> ?
[10:08] <Lure> geser: then kubuntu.org should be fine...
[10:09] <ryanakca> Lure: aha... kk
[10:09] <Lure> ryanakca: did you change Maintainer or just changelog?
[10:09] <geser> ryanakca: Maintainer should contain ubuntu
[10:10] <ryanakca>   Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>             should it be     Kubuntu Core Developers <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>           , since it's amarok?
[10:10] <geser> AFAIK is a more specific address ok
[10:10] <crimsun> \sh: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023313.html is a nice summary of sorts. So get rid of php4-specific stuff or add the alt Deps
[10:11] <ryanakca> Currently it's set to the debian devel, https://launchpad.net/~adeodato/ .
[10:11] <crimsun> ryanakca: set Maintainer to Ubuntu Core Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:11] <geser> if you change Maintainer put the old one into XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[10:11] <ryanakca> crimsun: kk
[10:14] <\sh> crimsun: ok...so removing php4-* binary packages from debian/control where we have php5-* binary packages
[10:14] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[10:15] <\sh> oh fck...it's 9:14pm UTC...and I'm sitting still in the office
[10:15] <ryanakca> \sh: ouch..
[10:16] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, ryanakca
[10:16] <\sh> but good for my new FAI server...which looks very nice now, and it's 40% faster installing a machine from now on...
[10:17] <jdong_> god straight Xorg uses a lot of redraw CPU.
[10:18] <jdong_> the day that I admit to Compiz improving performance... oh boy
[10:18] <ajmitch> the day that compiz actually works *properly*
[10:18] <sistpoty> the day my thesis is finished *g*
[10:18] <crimsun> it's a Feature!
[10:18] <bddebian> heh
[10:19] <bddebian> About 10 minutes
[10:20] <Hobbsee> ah right
[10:21] <siretart> \sh: did you already try the latest fai (3.1.7)?
[10:22] <Hobbsee> s
[10:22] <\sh> siretart: nope..I'm sitting on 3.0.x fai...I don't have the time to test other versions...I just needed working yum support
[10:23] <siretart> \sh: nobse also uses fai to install suse servers...
[10:23] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: yet another SRU policy
[10:23] <Toadstool> simpler than the previous one though
[10:23] <\sh> siretart: hehe...I can decide now: sles9 ubuntu or rhel :)
[10:24] <\sh> or debian
[10:24] <siretart> \sh: but he is using apt-get, suse seem to provide 'official' apt sources for their repo
[10:24] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: hooray!
[10:24] <Toadstool> :)
[10:24] <\sh> siretart: for opensuse that's right...for sles9 you are fcked in any way...I'm using self managed yum repositories...
[10:25] <\sh> siretart: but the debian repos style :)
[10:25] <siretart> hm. ic
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: also, we have far too many self made rpm packages...beginning from kernels to oracle server/client packages
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: very nasty
[10:27] <siretart> \sh: I was just curious, partly because I talkt to Thomas this weekend
[10:27] <siretart> I talked, even..
[10:27] <\sh> oh did I say...oracle-client 10.2 does work on dapper
[10:28] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: I'm writing the minutes...
[10:28] <Hobbsee> nice, thanks
[10:28] <\sh> siretart: well, tbh, FAI itself is not a big problem anymore...more a problem is, the asset management, which has to be done with HP ServiceDesk..and I need to write some tools which are querying this HP SD tool to get some deployment data from it...
[10:29] <ajmitch> crimsun: it's a great feature of compiz that I can't type in my password for nm-applet
[10:29] <ajmitch> not showing anything in the window is a great security feature there
[10:29] <crimsun> ajmitch: neat! On this machine, I get the excellent proactive security feature of turning my entire screen black. Can't even log out.
[10:30] <ajmitch> impressive!
[10:30] <ajmitch> compiz mostly works for me on the laptop, so I'm pretty lucky
[10:30] <\sh> siretart: the next big problem...yum is not the right tool for managing software updates and downgrades...
[10:30] <ajmitch> \sh: not many packages will handles downgrades cleanly
[10:30] <\sh> ajmitch: without getting slow screen output during the next 5 minutes? ,-)
[10:31] <ajmitch> \sh: works fine, I've started using compiz as my main WM on the laptop
[10:31] <\sh> ajmitch: that's right...but we need to do it sometimes...especially when the devs are doing some nasty shit ;)
[10:32] <\sh> ajmitch: nvidia or ati card?
[10:32] <LaserJock> so is it 2 testing acks from anybody for SRU?
[10:32] <\sh> anyways I have to sleep a bit...so I need to go to my hotel :(
[10:32] <\sh> cu tomorrow :)
[10:33] <crimsun> LaserJock: essentially
[10:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: does the MOTU sponsor count? seems like they should
[10:34] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes
[10:34] <LaserJock> ok, thanks for the info, sorry I didn't make it
[10:34] <crimsun> np, we know married deities have to run the world
[10:35] <LaserJock> heh
[10:35] <siretart> ah, sparky seems to be indeed used by fellow MOTUs :)
[10:35] <siretart> hope it isn't too slow...
[10:38] <welshbyte> hm, you know you've been away too long when you have to look up the acronyms on the wiki
[10:38] <bddebian> Heh, heya welshbyte
[10:38] <welshbyte> ello bddebian
[10:39] <ryanakca> what's an nmu?
[10:39] <welshbyte> non maintainer upload
[10:40] <tonyyarusso> ryanakca: non-maintainer-upload - ignore it
[10:40] <ryanakca> ah
[10:40] <ryanakca> kk
[10:40] <welshbyte> and that one wasn't even on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms :)
[10:40] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: (or crimsun) eventually, what was decided for pypanel? Do you still want a complete debdiff, or does it affects python-xlib ?
[10:40] <LaserJock> there's a Mozilla Team Council?
[10:41] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: there is now
[10:41] <mr_pouit> *affect
[10:41] <LaserJock> how odd
[10:43] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: we decided on the meeting that we won't have the motu-sru team any longer, and any motu can upload to -proposed
[10:43] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: so basically you'll just have to find a sponsor for the diff, who'll take care now
[10:43] <jdong_> sistpoty: who can +1?
[10:43] <jdong_> and how many needed
[10:44] <sistpoty> jdong_: there won't be +1 needed for -proposed any longer
[10:44] <sistpoty> jdong_: only 7 days of  testing and 2 works for me
[10:45] <jdong_> sistpoty: and anyone can worksforme?
[10:45] <sistpoty> jdong_: yep
[10:45] <jdong_> sistpoty: wow this is excellent news indeed
[10:47] <sistpoty> jdong_: yes it is. I hope that we'll finally get stuff into updates in a timely matter now :)
[10:47] <sistpoty> (and I don't need to write motu-sru reports any longer as a side effect *g*)
[10:47] <mr_pouit> ^^
[10:47] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok
[10:48] <tonyyarusso> Is anyone aware of licensing issues or other problems with Slim (Simple login manager) to keep it out of the repos?
[10:48] <mr_pouit> maybe missing COPYING file in orig tarball ?
[10:49] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: anyway as I've already said, I'd prefer to fix python-xlib, but if you can make sure that pypanel works fine with the workaround, I don't see a problem with that as well (due to only two rdepends of python-xlib)
[10:49] <Lutin> ajmitch: did you have some time to have a look to mlt ?
[10:50] <jdong_> sistpoty:  so eum, that means the Azureus fix is finally going to be in edgy-updates right? :D
[10:50] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: I checked on a pbuilder and it worked, but I'll try to look at python-xlib before attaching full debdiff
[10:51] <sistpoty> jdong_: yep... I'll plan on doing some uploads later tonight... but feel free to help out and sponsor any SRU's which have 2 works for me and are older than 7 days for -updates ;)
[10:51] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: please check also if it works actually, not just if it builds ;)
[10:51] <jdong_> sistpoty: I'm not MOTU, remember? ;-)
[10:52] <jdong_> sistpoty: is there a wiki document or mailing list post about this decision?
[10:52] <crimsun> dholbach is preparing the announcement.
[10:53] <sistpoty> jdong_: not yet... I'm writing on the minutes of the meeting and dholbach will write an announcement and update the wiki
[10:53] <jdong_> ok, thanks
[10:53] <jdong_> could I subscribe to the virtual MOTU pinging service for when that gets posted? :D
[10:54] <sistpoty> jdong_: you can subscribe to both the wiki page and ubuntu-motu ml? *g*
[10:54] <crimsun> I presume you're subscribed to ubuntu-devel-discuss@ and ubuntu-motu@ already?
[10:55] <Toadstool> tonyyarusso: no licensing issues afaik, just noone's packaged it well enough for it to be uploaded yet
[10:55] <LaserJock> crimsun: cookbook packaging guide, interesting idea
[10:56] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Has there been a pkging attempt that you are aware of ?
[10:56] <Toadstool> er... yeah I tried a few months ago ^^
[10:56] <Toadstool> never took the time to finish it though
[10:57] <Toadstool> tonyyarusso: https://code.launchpad.net/~jcorbier/+branch/slim/ubuntu <-- there you go if you want to finish waht I've done so far
[10:57] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Cool, thanks.
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Do you know what outstanding issues there were?
[10:58] <Toadstool> none, just been too busy to package anything else lately
[10:59] <tonyyarusso> ok
[11:03] <jdong_> sistpoty: lol :)
[11:03] <jdong_> crimsun: I have to admit I am not subscribed to those high volume lists, but I do read thru the archives
[11:05] <LaserJock> -motu isn't high volume
[11:05] <LaserJock> -devel-discuss can be sorta
[11:05] <LaserJock> bugmail is high volume :-)
[11:06] <jdong_> LaserJock: if you say so
[11:06] <secureboot> anyone know of any documentation about how to package an init.d script? just call update-rc.d from postinst?
[11:06] <sistpoty> -motu even doesn't receive much spam...
[11:06] <secureboot> and have a file install to /etc/init.d
[11:06] <sistpoty> (which is moderated away anyways)
[11:07] <geser> secureboot: man dh_installinit
[11:07] <secureboot> geser: call that from postinst?
[11:08] <secureboot> nm
[11:08] <secureboot> looks more complicated - i'll look for examples
[11:08] <geser> no, it's debhelper scripts which you call from debian/rules and do the necessary work
[11:09] <geser> mv the file to the right place and add the necessary scriptlets to postinst
[11:09] <tonyyarusso> debhelper scripts are pretty impressive, I've found
[11:10] <geser> but you can do it also all by hand if you want
[11:10] <secureboot> geser: that's just an update-rc.d call, right?
[11:10] <stgraber> Any of you using Feisty has some problem with GPG signature with archive.ubuntu.com ?
[11:10] <ScottK> Way back when (ok - 3 months ago) it was suggested that I try and get the stuff I was bringing to Ubuntu into Debian.  I've started working on that.  I'd appreciate a point/how-to for setting up a sid chroot on an Ubuntu box.  Any pointers?
[11:10] <geser> secureboot: yes
[11:10] <ScottK> stgraber: Yes.
[11:10] <stgraber> I have a BADSIG here and not when using my local mirror (~3 hours from archive)
[11:11] <tonyyarusso> stgraber: Yes, all the time.  Running apt-get update usually fixes it
[11:12] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: why not just use pbuilder?
[11:12] <LaserJock> ScottK: what?
[11:12] <LaserJock> both of you need to try both :-)
[11:12] <ScottK> OK.
[11:13] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'd probably say, even must.
[11:13] <ScottK> I'm game.
[11:13] <LaserJock> TheMuso: well, if you put it that way ;-)
[11:13] <TheMuso> dchroot rocks
[11:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: a plain chroot can easily end up cluttered with all kinds of stuff
[11:13] <TheMuso> Chroots are great for early release cycles.
[11:14] <LaserJock> ScottK: pbuilder allows you get closer to the buildd environment
[11:14] <ScottK> LaserJock: Yes, but I don't think that'll be a problem for the Python stuff I'm doing.
[11:14] <TheMuso> And for working on packages from other versions of a distro that you don't want a full install of./
[11:14] <LaserJock> ScottK: but we recommend you pbuilder *any* source package we sponsor
[11:14] <TheMuso> I simply keep base tarballs of chroots, and refresh them from time to time.
[11:15] <ScottK> OK.  How about a "use pbuilder to build packages for sid on Ubuntu" how to?
[11:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: no problemo
[11:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: grab http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/pbuilder-sid
[11:15] <LaserJock> drop it into your path some where and run pbuilder-sid create
[11:16] <LaserJock> you'll also want to create the results directory
[11:16] <LaserJock> which is ~/pbuilder/sid_result in the script ^^
[11:16] <LaserJock> but you can tweak it to whatever you like
[11:16] <ScottK> Cool.  I think I can manage that.
[11:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: I also have an Ubuntu one too
[11:17] <LaserJock> pbuilder-feisty
[11:18] <LaserJock> that one you can just cp pbuilder-feisty pbuilder-edgy && pbuilder-edgy create
[11:18] <ScottK> Thanks.  I'll experiment.
[11:18] <LaserJock> I guess I should have it create the result dir if it doesn't already exist
[11:19] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: you need http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: ty
[11:20] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[11:20] <sistpoty> anyone who'd like to proofread the minutes? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8997/
[11:21] <ScottK> Any meeting minutes I didn't have to write are by definition perfect.
[11:21] <LaserJock> sistpoty: seems good
[11:21] <sistpoty> LaserJock: thx
[11:22] <LaserJock> I have some follow up I'd like to do since I was gone
[11:22] <crimsun> sistpoty: edited. 8998/
[11:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh?
[11:24] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'm helping one of the leaders of the Debian Python modules team write a "So you've packaged for Ubuntu, here's what you need to know to get started with Python modules in Debian" How to.  Unless you don't want me to, I think it makes sense to refer to your pbuilder script there?
[11:24] <sistpoty> thx crimsun
[11:25] <LaserJock> ScottK: how big is this HowTo going to be? And how much is different?
[11:25] <ScottK> It's going to be pretty short.
[11:26] <LaserJock> ScottK: actually, let me clean it up a tad, give me a sec
[11:26] <ScottK> Mostly here's who you ask to get on the team, here's where you have to register.
[11:26] <ScottK> No rush.
[11:27] <ScottK> Here's ways that Ubuntu and Debian are different (e.g. in Ubuntu if the change is small, I don't patch, I modify the source files, but Debian almost always wants a patch).
[11:30] <LaserJock> ScottK: we don't patch?
[11:30] <bddebian> I don't if it's small
[11:31] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think we'd be any different than Debian there
[11:31] <LaserJock> I don't know of course, I just wouldn't have thought we'd be different there
[11:31] <ScottK> What I got told was if there's not patch system there already, don't create one unless you really need to.
[11:31] <ScottK> The difference is more a matter of emphasis from my perspective and VERY limited experience.
[11:38] <bddebian> WTF, I thought the hug day was going to be on Friday?
[11:40] <tsmithe> bddebian, looks like it's not then
[11:46] <sistpoty> bddebian: seems like this is even a different hug day than the universe one
[11:47] <sistpoty> bdmurray: the hug day you announced is not for universe, right?
[11:47] <bddebian> Oh
[11:47] <sistpoty> s/not for/not targeted at/
[11:53] <bdmurray> bddebian: I hadn't seen any discussion about a Friday hug day
[11:53] <daviey> Hi, when i try to build a package i am getting "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: control file must have at least one binary package part"  Why is this?
[11:53] <bdmurray> sistpoty: not particularly for universe, no
[11:53] <sistpoty> bdmurray: ah, k... because we just decided to do a hug day on friday in the meeting and got a little bit confused *g*
[11:54] <sistpoty> daviey: check if there is one binary package listed in debian/control
[11:54] <sistpoty> (at least one binary package)
[11:55] <daviey> sistpoty, here is my control file http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9005/plain/
[11:55] <bdmurray> sistpoty: okay, sorry about that.  What do you have planned for Friday?
[11:55] <ajmitch> bdmurray: tagging bugs
[11:56] <sistpoty> bdmurray: tackle universe bugs in particular
[11:56] <sistpoty> bdmurray: no problem... was really just a small confusion right now ;)
[11:57] <daviey> sistpoty, any idea?
[11:57] <sistpoty> daviey: you're missing the binary package that should result from the source package... give me a sec and I'll update your pastebin entry
[11:58] <bddebian> Time to head home, later gang
[11:58] <daviey> sistpoty, thanks!
[11:58] <bdmurray> ajmitch: Have you written anything up about tagging bugs?
[11:58] <ajmitch> not me
[11:59] <daviey> sistpoty, i managed to build a src package, but a binary package was giving me a headache
[12:03] <sistpoty> daviey: I guess that could give you a start: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9010/
[12:04] <daviey> brb, thanks
[12:05] <sistpoty> crimsun, ajmitch, gpocentek: I'm just about to mail tb about Lure's application... anything I should add to the mail? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9011/
[12:05] <sistpoty> (or any mistakes? *g*)
[12:08] <sistpoty> added the lp-id: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9012/


[01:09] <timholum1> hello, I know ubuntu-cloud require's 2 server's to run, Does it require them to be in the same location? I am asking becouse I am looking at renting some rackspace from a company, and i would rather have only one server there
[01:09] <timholum1> I would like the vm's that I am running to run off of that server, but I dont need the controll server to be there. Any Idea's as to how to get that to work?
[01:51] <smoser> timholum1, i dont know that it'd really work out all that well
[01:51] <smoser> its a difficult thing to have hosted
[01:52] <smoser> as the CLC really needs a lot of control of the network
[02:00] <timholum1> ya, i have been doing some more research, and it looks like I am just going to end up with a machine that has kvm installed
[02:01] <timholum1> with one of the many web interfaces out there to manage it
[03:43] <rsvp> when one creates a S3 connection with BOTO, under what conditions does it close?? Is it just left open, or is there is explicit close() ?
[04:02] <mcurran> friggin' signed-up for EC2, it says I already have service, but when click on EC2 console, in AWS, it says sing-up again...  over and over...  friggin' annoying...
[04:07] <flaccid> check and see if your c/c was accepted
[09:42] <liam> this is probably the wrong place but does anyone know how I can execute git commands to my ec2 instance usign the .pem key?
[09:42] <liam> using*
[09:54] <liam> does anyone know how to set up ssh so I don't have to specify the .pem key every time I connect to my ec2 server?
[13:20] <gijo> hw can i run an ec2 instance using boto
[13:26] <kim0> gijo: Are you looking for something like http://spazidigitali.com/2009/03/17/controlling-an-ec2-instance-with-python/
[13:33] <gijo> @kim8 i have checked that already, conn.run_instances()  will create a new instance and run it . i want to run an existing instance
[13:40] <gijo> @kim8 instance.start() cause error AttributeError: 'Instance' object has no attribute 'start'
[18:14] <robbiew> mathiaz!
[18:14] <mathiaz> robbiew!
[18:14] <robbiew> mathiaz: any chance you could provide me admin access to http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/ ?
[18:15] <robbiew> I'm "undacuvabrutha" on wordpress.com
[18:16] <mathiaz> robbiew: I need to have your email address
[18:16] <mathiaz> robbiew: so that I can invite/add you to the blog
[18:17] <mathiaz> robbiew: ie the email address associated with your wordpress.com account
[18:17] <robbiew> mathiaz: one sec.../me checks
[18:19] <robbiew> mathiaz<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:19] <mathiaz> robbiew: done - you're an admin
[18:20] <mathiaz> robbiew: if you could remove me from the list of user I'd appreciate
[18:20] <mathiaz> robbiew: last time we tried it didn't work
[18:20] <robbiew> mathiaz: ok
[18:20] <mathiaz> robbiew: (may be because I created the blog)
[18:24] <robbiew> mathiaz: nope...can't
[18:24] <robbiew> you might be right
[18:25] <mathiaz> robbiew: I'll poke around and ask for help
[18:25] <robbiew> cool
[18:25] <mathiaz> robbiew: I may be able to move *ownership* to someone else
[18:26] <robbiew> mathiaz: ah..yeah
[20:54] <euca> hi! does anyone know if it's ok to have your guest vm's public ip be the same as the private ip?
[21:01] <kim0> not sure but my guess is it is NOT ok
[21:02] <euca> how would I make the 2 different?
[21:03] <kim0> AFAIK, the private IP range is inherently different from the public network's IP
[21:03] <kim0> when installing you choose a priv network .. that's it .. make it different
[21:08] <smoser> kirkland, i just pushed to cloud-utils (lp:~ubuntu-on-ec2/ubuntu-on-ec2/cloud-utils/)
[21:08] <smoser> ./uec-query-builds latest lucid i386 us-east-1
[21:08] <smoser> lucid	server	release	20101020
[21:08] <smoser> er...
[21:08] <euca> hi smoser
[21:08] <smoser> ./uec-query-builds latest-ec2 lucid i386 us-east-1
[21:08] <smoser> lucid	server	release	20101020	ebs	i386	us-east-1	ami-480df921	aki-6603f70f
[21:08] <smoser> lucid	server	release	20101020	instance-store	i386	us-east-1	ami-a403f7cd	aki-6603f70f
[21:08] <euca> i couldn't run your vm yesterday
[21:08] <smoser> yeah, it wont work on xen hypervisor
[21:08] <euca> lol
[21:09] <smoser> and that may well have been why your NC's didn't install for ubuntu
[21:09] <euca> why? because of Xen?
[21:10] <euca> so all ubuntu uec's are kvm images?
[21:11] <smoser> so i dont know for a fact that the ttylinux wont run in xen paravirt
[21:11] <smoser> i guess it could...
[21:11] <kim0> smoser: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ami/ :)
[21:12] <smoser> ubuntu uec images can run under xen (they do, in fact, on ec2)
[21:15] <mathiaz> smoser: hi!
[21:15] <mathiaz> smoser: are the AWS IAM cli tools packaged somewhere?
[21:20] <smoser> in natty, yes
[21:20] <smoser> iam-cli
[21:20] <smoser> and maverick and lucid at
 so all ubuntu uec's are kvm images?
 so i dont know for a fact that the ttylinux wont run in xen paravirt
[21:21] <smoser> woops. paste fail.
[21:21] <smoser> mathiaz, https://launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/+archive/awstools
[21:21] <mathiaz> smoser: awesome! thanks!
[21:56] <euca> what's this cloud-init business anyways?
[21:56] <euca> and how can I make it find <IP_ADDRESS>?
[22:36] <kirkland> smoser: neat, thanks


[02:50] <tiox> Figured I would come in and say hi.
[02:52] <tiox> Question I am sure has been asked a few times already: Could it be possible, some time in the future when Ubuntu TV really comes into fruition, to install on a PC, then make the "TV" display the primary component, with other applications running in the background, and maybe with the aid of Compiz, deferred to the other monitors?
[02:55] <tiox> Odd question, some clarification, could I define the primary display, and have the TV components of Ubuntu TV be on the primary while other applications go into secondary displays in the future, so, for instance, I could rock a television setup on the really big main monitor, with other monitors doing things like chatting and web viewing? Or would it be too big a strain on the system, even with today's ultra-powerful processors and vide
[08:51] <repete> Saviq, any thoughts on whether the Raspberry Pi will run Ubuntu TV?
[08:57] <popey> repete: we don't support the arm rev of rpi
[08:57] <repete> popey, I know we don't now, because it is ARM11
[08:58] <popey> we could, if we put some engineering effort in
[08:58] <repete> popey, any concerns with the FPS of the GPU?
[08:58] <popey> i don't know enough about it, but xbmc has been demoed on it
[08:58] <repete> cool
[08:59] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKhnoQMwjmQ
[09:07] <Saviq> repete, AFAIK the biggest problem with the Pi is its lack of umph when it comes to CPU power
[09:08] <Saviq> the other issue I saw mentioned was the lack of support for their video decoding HW
[09:08] <Saviq> rsalveti, you should know more ^?
[09:08] <repete> Saviq, huh... thought I head it did hw decode of video
[09:08] <Saviq> repete, it does
[09:09] <Saviq> repete, but AFAIK we don't have the drivers
[09:09] <repete> right...
[09:09] <repete> but Debian runs on it, right?
[09:09] <Saviq> yes
[09:09] <repete> So the code must be available
[09:09] <Saviq> and actually the drivers part will probably be solved one way or another
[09:09] <repete> I know ARM11 is a blocker as well
[09:09] <Saviq> another issue is RAM, it only has 128/256 MB IIRC
[09:09] <repete> Might be a good use case for optimising
[09:10] <Saviq> that is wireless/wired /methinks
[09:10] <Saviq> i.e. if you want onboard wireless, you only get 128MB RAM
[09:10] <repete> right.  Was just reading that both now have 256 MB, but still that is low
[09:10] <Saviq> oh ok so that changed
[09:11] <Saviq> yeah, my unity-2d-shell has 117M residual now
[14:18] <rsalveti> I don't think we'll support raspberry pi so soon
[14:19] <rsalveti> we'd need to change quite a few things to make it supported
[14:19] <rsalveti> if you want to run debian, you'd just need a way to have the video decode support working with qt
[14:19] <rsalveti> either with gstreamer or using another proprietary solution
[14:19] <rsalveti> didn't yet check how it's doing the video decoding


 @aptghetto [Have a look at https://community.ubuntu.com/c/desktop/ubuntu-unity-dev], Thanks!
[02:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T71: Battery status not updating properly on laptops] guiverc (Chris Guiver) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T71#1104
[02:35] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T71: Battery status not updating properly on laptops] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T71#1107
[06:12] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALb58ae217a34d: Add inserting slide number] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALb58ae217a34d
[06:58] <guiverc> if upstream fix an issue, do they add 'fix-committed/released' etc on the https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/  (i realize it needs to be packaged up for me to notice too..)
[16:56] <wxl> @tsimonq2: lxqt-qtplugin 0.14.0-3 has hit unstable so now can we do a sync?
 @aptghetto [Have a look at https://community.ubuntu.com/c/desktop/ubuntu-unity-dev], Hey! I looked it up. I am confused. Those are like big threads. I was looking for IRC channels. I will ask in #ubuntu once.
[17:01] <apt-ghetto> Yes, that's where I look for news. I don't know, if they have other channels to communicate.
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: lxqt-qtplugin 0.14.0-3 has hit unstable so now can we do a sync …], Talk to me tomorrow when I'm home
[17:05] <wxl> k
 Good evening. I write from Italy. I installed Lubuntu 18.04 LTS, I made all the updates it found. … I only have two problems at the moment: … 1) After placing the icons on the desktop in the chosen position, and even aligning them to the grid, after each shutdown / reboot / change of user etc ... these do not maintain the position
[20:36] <wxl> this is the development channel. you want the support one
[20:36] <wxl> https://telegram.lubuntu.me/support
[20:39] <wxl> @Andrea_G01: I can't reproduce what you have with the volume thing.
[20:41] <wxl> @Andrea_G01: nor can I reproduce the first problem. Is this a fresh system?
[20:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T76: need new looks] hmollercl (Hans P. Möller) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T76#1109
[21:04] <wxl> @teward001: does inbound mail work yet?
[21:30] <wxl> @Login_01 i don't think any of us have the problem you're having
[21:34] <wxl> @Login_01 is this a fresh system?
[21:34] <wxl> UGH WRONG CHANNEL JEEZ
[21:34]  * wxl facepalms
[22:19] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL309ffd4eabf9: Move slideshows/presenting into own section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL309ffd4eabf9
[22:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL47625df84eb7: rm duplicate text in loimpress] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL47625df84eb7
[22:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL0cc0dda2c110: Add go to first last slide] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL0cc0dda2c110
[22:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALca5400214e00: Move Find And Replace to own section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALca5400214e00
[22:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALa2496bfb83b1: mv images to own section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALa2496bfb83b1
[23:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL3bb893b27138: mv tables to won section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL3bb893b27138
[23:28] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALf9ec12e506d3: Remove uneeded whitespace] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALf9ec12e506d3
 wxl: Explained in PM to you.  Blocked by Canonical IS busyness and other critical things I need to finish getting set up (but need Canonical's assists because DNS...)
[23:31] <wxl> yaya
 Back to Cheeseland I go :(
 It'll be good to sleep in my own bed though
 *summons chaos and dumps it all on @tsimonq2*
[23:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALf7f4cf430de5: mv columns into own section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALf7f4cf430de5
[23:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALc15190b0b662: Add lowriter column break] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALc15190b0b662
[23:58] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL15138d2343a8: Add spacing and line between each column] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL15138d2343a8


[09:15] <ralsina> good morning!
[09:32] <JamesTait> Happy New Year, folks! :-D
[10:55] <gatox> good morning!
[10:55] <mandel> gatox, morning!
[10:56] <gatox> mandel, hi! how were those holidays?
[10:56] <mandel> gatox, awesome!!! went skiing with a friend of my brother whose is a pro and champion of spain, so I have been doing some crazy slopes etc...
[10:56] <mandel> gatox, and I broke one of the boots hehe
[10:57] <gatox> mandel, puuuuuuuuuu.... it's like your hobby break parts of your body jjeje
[10:57] <gatox> ahhhhhh boots
[10:57] <gatox> i read foot
[10:58] <mandel> gatox, no no, I've never gotten injured skiing, at least not yet :)
[10:58] <mandel> gatox, but it was great fun, one day I managed to get to 70 km/h
[10:58] <ralsina> good morning mandel, gatox, JamesTait!
[10:58] <mandel> ralsina, hello!
[10:59] <ralsina> refreshed and ready to code nice stuff, guys?
[10:59] <mandel> ralsina, yes, if I remember what I was doing ;)
[11:00] <mandel> ralsina, witch is fix nux layouts hehehe
[11:05] <JamesTait> ralsina, yes indeed - although I'm only working this week, then off for two weeks.
[11:33] <karni> Good morning!
[11:33] <karni> Happy New Year all :)!
[11:34] <karni> JamesTait: Sounds like a plan :D
[11:35] <gatox> karni, o/
[11:35] <karni> hi gatox o/
[11:35] <JamesTait> karni, had I been given a say in the dates I'd have made it coincide with the Christmas break, but it's for a family wedding, so I pretty much had to go with the dates I was given. ;)
[11:36] <karni> JamesTait: ah, I see :)
[11:36] <JamesTait> karni, looking forward to some nice, warm, sunny weather though. :-D
[11:49] <JamesTait> karni, http://uk.weather.com/weather/10day-Johannesburg-SFXX0023 isn't looking too bad. ;)
[11:49] <karni> JamesTait: not bad :)
[14:33] <fugue88> Happy New Year, everyone!
[17:01] <Spleen> I purchased a song from the Ubuntu One Music Store yesterday afternoon; however, as of now, the download seems to be stuck with status of "Queued" in Rhythmbox.
[17:03] <chaselivingston> Spleen: Our server that handles these downloads crashed over the holidays, so it's currently working through the backlog of files to be downloaded. You should see the music show up in your account soon. I'm very sorry for the trouble.
[17:04] <Spleen> Ok, Chase. Thanks for the information.
[17:05] <chaselivingston> Spleen: no problem!
[19:02] <nantou> can someone help me with my account? I have been trying to sync it for 35 minutes to not avail
[19:02] <chaselivingston> nantou: sure, what's up?
[19:03] <nantou> are you an admin chaselivingston
[19:03] <nantou> ?
[19:03] <chaselivingston> nantou: yes, i am
[19:03] <nantou> ok, so my email address is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:04] <nantou> I have a "ubuntu one" directory in my homne directory
[19:04] <chaselivingston> nantou: right
[19:04] <nantou> and I have also "sync" thunderbird, to use it for attachments larger than 1 MB
[19:04] <nantou> but then, I dont know what I have done, every time I try to log in and see my files, I only see 2 files, the 2 attachments I have used with thunderbird
[19:05] <nantou> I do not see the rest, 1.2 GB of data
[19:05] <chaselivingston> nantou: i'll try to run a job on your account to recover any files that we're able to
[19:05] <nantou> and IIRC, the ubuntuone app listed my email address as an old one
[19:06] <nantou> may be that my laptop is bugged, I didnt run a fresh install
[19:06] <chaselivingston> nantou: you can also check the trash/recycle bin on any of the devices as some of the files may have ended up there
[19:06] <nantou> to xubuntu 12.10
[19:07] <nantou> oh, and I am now writting from the University, no Internet at home, router is broken or the contract expired
[19:07] <nantou> Ill try to come tomorrow at 11.00 central european time
[19:08] <chaselivingston> nantou: sounds good. you could also submit the form at http://one.ubuntu.com/support/contact  and we can talk that way
[21:26] <arune> I currently have a problem where my android ubuntu one app do no longer upload photos to ubuntu one
[21:26] <chaselivingston> karni: ^^^
[21:27] <arune> I get a notification saying "2 uploads failed" and if I click that I get to the settings of ubuntu one app where I can retry, and if I do the noification comes right back
[21:31] <karni> arune: Hi there. chaselivingston, could you point me to Ubuntu support wiki?
[21:32] <arune> hello
[21:33] <karni> arune: Could you please follow these steps? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1489933/
[21:34] <karni> arune: I'll have some food (it's almost 11 PM here), and I'll get to it :)
[21:35] <arune> great :)
[21:35] <arune> I just sent the log
[21:36] <arune> from anders.sandblad
[21:38] <karni> arune: perfect, I'll get to that soon. Expect a return e-mail :) Thank you!
[21:45] <arune> WARNING/com.ubuntuone.api.files.U1FileAPI 641 Jan 2, 2013 10:34:25 PM HTTP/1.1 403 FORBIDDEN
[21:46] <karni> arune: yes, I just saw that (still over my plate of food)
[21:46] <karni> arune: What version of the app is it?
[21:46] <karni> arune: bottom of the settings screen
[21:47] <arune> 1.2.5
[21:47] <karni> up to date. hrm
[21:52] <karni> arune: Could you please install and run this diagnostic? FYI I'm a Canonical employee, and this apk is hosted on people.canonical.com server. http://goo.gl/8QOF1.qr
[21:53] <karni> arune: Well, I'm a contractor, not an employee, but that's equivalent as far as Ubuntu One is concerned :)
[21:54] <arune> sure
[21:54] <karni> arune: Great :)
[21:56] <arune> result just sent
[21:57] <karni> arune: Now we know it's not an authentication issue for sure.
[21:57] <karni> arune: "Pictures - HTC Desire S" - is this listed on https://one.ubuntu.com/files ?
[21:57] <karni> arune: under 'my synced folders'
[21:59] <arune> yes, I already have about 1k photos there
[22:00] <karni> arune: I see.
[22:00] <karni> arune: Last question, does it contain the 692MEDIA directory?
[22:00] <arune> yes, the strange thing is that https://one.ubuntu.com/files says it was "changed" 33 minutes ago
[22:00] <karni> arune: or even - could you make sure that file IMAG1475.jpg is not there already?
[22:01] <karni> arune: What was changed? file/directory/which one?
[22:01] <arune> well, I have over 1k files, so it does not list all
[22:01] <karni> arune: Do you sync them to your PC?
[22:01] <arune> but my laptop does not have anything from today
[22:01] <karni> arune: Have you subscribed to that synced fodler?
[22:01] <karni> aha
[22:01] <karni> arune: Could you please run $ u1sdtool --status on your laptop?
[22:02] <arune> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1490023/
[22:03] <karni> arune: Thank you. No sign from the server.
[22:03] <arune> my laptop also says 692MEDIA was changed half hour ago, but as said, no new pics
[22:03] <karni> arune: Hrm.
[22:04] <karni> arune: And you know for sure it doesn't list all your pics on the web site, because there are too many of them, yes? Does it display a message telling you so?
[22:04] <karni> (it should, if it doesn't display all of them)
[22:04] <arune> yes, it said so on the bottom
[22:04] <arune> "Too many files or folders in this folder to display, only displaying 1000 entries."
[22:05] <karni> Right.
[22:05] <arune> (which is a bit sad if I want to "publish" one of the newer files but not listed due to the limit)
[22:06] <arune> (but thats another issue entierly)
[22:06] <karni> arune: You could use one.ubuntu.com/photos/ for that
[22:07] <karni> arune: Anyway, the folder may have received another file. These last two are clearly failing, I don't yet understand why.
[22:11] <karni> arune: I'll do some debugging, and hopefully find something. It may take some time though, so thank you for reporting this. I should get back to you tomorrow the latest. Feel free to ping me on IRC as well.
[22:11] <karni> arune: btw could you please try manually adding any other file (a text file will do) via the app and see if the upload fails as well?
[22:11] <arune> great, thanks, Ill stick around here
[22:14] <arune> added a textfile to another dir but fails to upload that aswelll, want a report?
[22:18] <karni> arune: that log file would be awesome, yes please
[22:18] <arune> when adding file or just when autouploading?
[22:18] <karni> arune: $ u1sdtool --free-space=''
[22:19] <karni> arune: just adding a file manually, best into ~/Ubuntu One
[22:19] <karni> (the main directory)
[22:21] <arune> done
[22:21] <arune> Free space:<PHONE_NUMBER> bytes
[22:23] <karni> arune: looks like a server issue. I'll make a rather quick test, will take a moment. Will try to get something more interesting out of that 403 than just response status code.
[22:39] <karni> arune: Thank you for reporing this. I have notified the team responsible for our servers, we will attempt to fix this ASAP.
[22:40] <arune> great, thank you


[00:08] <balloons> phillw, see my mailing list post
[00:08] <balloons> elopio, I'm here atm.. likely you aren't :-)
[00:09] <elopio> balloons: I am.
[00:09] <elopio> I'm wondering about the filemanager case. If I patch the home with a directory in /home/phablet, the app can't be launched. But if I patch it with a dir in /tmp, it works.
[00:10] <elopio> so, why do we have to create all that complex dirs hierarchy instead of using /tmp ?
[00:13] <balloons> elopio, fm is unconfined.. it's not a good case
[00:13] <elopio> balloons: hum
[00:13] <phillw> balloons: I'll go dig it up... I've had the most amazing thing happen....
[00:13] <phillw>  Hi, Thanks! I want to learn a little more about this flavor of ubuntu! I am a teacher in a school that has many obsolete computers. I would like to use it there.
[00:13] <phillw> A teacher in Mexico. Our pre official 10.10 was the last time I was asked about using lubuntu on low spec kit.
[00:14] <balloons> phillw, that's an awesome story
[00:14] <balloons> I'm so happy you did the session, and really glad to hear the story!
[00:15] <phillw> And that, balloons, is why I stick with lubuntu. My local youth team have a chance to have a computer lab with two old computers.
[00:15] <balloons> elopio, so yea since fm is unconfined none of the apparmor stuff is needed; it can do whatever and apparmor won't complain
[00:15] <phillw> That man, will get what ever I can do for his school.
[00:15] <elopio> balloons: well, it crashes if we use a temp home inside the real home.
[00:18] <balloons> elopio, I seem to remember that as well.. not sure why
[00:19] <balloons> but yea, I left the apparmor stuff on the table.. it works atm for calendar.. it's in production even
[00:19] <balloons> music has been a complex pain. Filemanager should convert over painlessly I hope. Still it's pretty crazy for what we want to do
[00:21] <balloons> elopio, I'm off to walk the puppy. We can chat more about it, but suffice to say for now the calendar can serve as an example of what will work with apparmor
[00:22] <elopio> balloons: yes, don't worry. I was just wondering about the filemanager case. Your explanation was good, thanks.
[00:22] <balloons> I'm all for simplifying it, but Jamie explained how locked down the apps are, while still expecting a certain layout etc
[00:22] <balloons> the expected layout is what we are forced to reproduce since we are changing /home for them
[03:54] <pitti> Good morning
[09:24] <jibel> pitti, with latest autpkgtest there are again quoting issue with ssh because ssh executes the command with sh -c, it'll be the same with adb. But if I systematically quote the scripts it breaks the other drivers.
[09:25] <pitti> jibel: what does your auxverb look like now?
[09:25] <pitti> I suppose something like
[09:25] <pitti> #!/bin/sh -e
[09:25] <pitti> exec ssh ... "$@" ?
[09:25] <pitti> or does that need double quoting?
[09:45] <jibel> pitti, yes something like that but I probably did something wrong, rechecking.
[09:45] <pitti> jibel: ah, this would indeed need double quoting then
[09:45] <jibel> pitti, did you change something in the debug output of VirtSubproc, nothing is display with debug mode enabled
[09:45] <jibel> ?
[09:46] <jibel> for example: sudo ./run-from-checkout -dd libpng --- lxc -d adt-amd64
[09:46] <jibel> should display lines like <VirtSubproc> ...
[09:47] <pitti> jibel: I just committed some refactoring for debugging, yes (~ 10 mins ago)
[09:47] <pitti> so if you rebased in the past 10 mins, then yes
[09:47] <pitti> jibel: it's a prerequisite for refactoring the debian/test/control parsing; I need to put that into a separate class so that we can also get a parser for click metadata
[09:48] <pitti> jibel: it now displays the program name first, i. e. "adt-run:" (as it always used to), or "adt-virt-lxc: DBG:"
[09:49] <jibel> okay, I don't have the latest version, I'll update it
[09:49] <pitti> jibel: ah, if you don't, it should also show debug info of course
[09:49] <pitti> jibel: it would only affect your new ssh runner if that uses VirtSubproc.debug()
[09:49] <jibel> it didn't
[09:49] <pitti> don't worry about that for now, too many variables at once I suppose :)
[10:15] <jibel> pitti, so exec ssh -p 22<EMAIL_ADDRESS>-- $(printf '%q ' "$@")
[10:15] <jibel> did the trick
[10:15] <pitti> jibel: ah, nice!
[10:17] <jibel> I still have an error: "sh: 3: cd: can't cd to ."  when it executes the script that fetches the source, searching why . is not accessible
[10:41] <jibel> ah, it's because 'cd' is executed via su and ubuntu doesn't have access to /root
[10:48] <pitti> jibel: whoops, that sounds like something which should be fixed in adt-run proper?
[10:48] <jibel> pitti, not sure, it's happening only with ssh
[10:53] <pitti> jibel: ah, that's because ssh defaults to cd $HOME, while lxc-attach and friends don't; but schroot ought to have the same problem, hmm
[10:54] <pitti> su ought to change it though
[10:59] <jibel> pitti, su -l fixes it
[10:59] <jibel> testbed command ['sh', '-ec', 'su -l -s /bin/sh ubuntu -c \'exec  ...
[11:00] <jibel> and can probably remove -s /bin/sh too unless there is a reason to force the shell
[11:01] <pitti> jibel: probably, yes; that runner shouldn't run as "nobody" or similar disabled accounts
[13:50] <balloons> brendand, time to setup your session :)
[13:51] <balloons> brendand, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions. you can do it all yourself
[22:02] <elopio> ping ubuntu-qa: somebody available for a review?
[22:02] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-calculator-app/swipe_to_delete/+merge/223001
[22:05] <veebers> elopio: is self.waitingConfirmationForRemoval.wait_for(True) doing the same as screen.confirm_removal() ?
[22:05] <elopio> veebers: no. The first one waits for the confirmation to appear.
[22:05] <elopio> the  second one clicks it.
[22:05] <veebers> ah ok, makes sense
[22:06] <elopio> veebers: well, it could be clearer. But that comes from the QML code.
[22:06] <veebers> ack
[22:06] <veebers> elopio: where do the numbers on diff line 75-77 come from / are calculated?
[22:07] <veebers> hmm nvm
[22:07] <elopio> veebers: trial and error. The labels section takes less than 1/3 of the screen.
[22:07] <elopio> and you have to swipe for at least half of the width.
[22:07] <elopio> so 1/3 to 1/3 + 1/2
[22:08] <veebers> elopio: trial and error foe those numbers or for working out how much of a swipe to make?
[22:09] <elopio> veebers: for both. I just found that the default which is: swipe from almost the left side to almost the right side doesn't work for the calculator.
[22:09] <elopio> so I moved a little to the left, and a little to the right until I understood how it works.
[22:09] <veebers> elopio: would that indicate an issue with the calc app? i.e. if a user is used to swiping in one way then tries it with calc and it doesn't work?
[22:10] <elopio> veebers: yes, probably. It was really hard for me to do it.
[22:10] <elopio> now that I understand it, it makes sense. But you are right.
[22:10] <elopio> I'll report a bug to UX.
[22:11] <elopio> I suppose it's possible to identify if it's a drag instead of a tap.
[22:12] <veebers> elopio: cool, other than that the code looks good to me, I'm not setup to run and test the code right now though sorry :-\ But I can give my LGTM if you like
[22:12] <elopio> veebers: yes, that's fine. Thanks for your review.
[22:12] <elopio> I'll wait for jenkins to confirm before approving it.
[22:12] <veebers> elopio: although, if you're filing a bug to UX you should link it in a comment for the "_drag_pointing_device_to_delete" method
[22:12] <robotfuel> elopio: I marked it as lgtm
[22:13] <elopio> veebers: I'll do that.
[22:13] <veebers> elopio: awesome :-)
[22:13] <veebers> hey robotfuel how goes things?
[22:13] <elopio> thanks robotfuel.
[22:14] <robotfuel> hi veebers, better than yesterday.
[22:14] <veebers> robotfuel: that's good to hear.


  TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
[05:52] <lids491> m4v krytarik ubot9 McPeter DalekSec tomaw ubot93 robertliu phunyguy jamespage Nafallo hggdh nottrobin apw souther caveat slickymaster niko ikonia setuid popey mariogrip niemeyer bashfulrobot nhandler hyperair ubottu markthomas Flannel Unit193 avelldiroll Tm_T wxl Zic mhall119 ubot5` ddstreet el Spydar007 jose acheronuk lubotu3 lubotu2` lubotu1` mitya57 Pricey ubuntulog BlueT_ sakrecoer ninnnu DJones Pici pleia2 aisrael Lausefuchs


[02:50] <phillw> ooh, bugga, they did say the rules for queuebot were not persistant!
[10:43] <cjwatson> mute ubuntu-release new quantal-release
[10:44] <cjwatson> er, yeah, I should read the docs
[10:44] <cjwatson> mute queue new quantal-release
[10:44] <cjwatson> queuebot: mute queue new quantal-release
[10:44] <cjwatson> stgraber: Does it have a whitelist of allowed users, or does it just not say "Added mute entry: ..." any more
[10:45] <cjwatson> Ah, it's just slow :-)
[14:53] <stgraber> cjwatson: yeah, I really need to move the queue refreshes into a separate thread/process to fix that :)
[15:07] <cjwatson> mute
[15:09] <cjwatson> unmute ubuntu-release new quantal-release
[15:14] <cjwatson> mute
[15:14] <cjwatson> queuebot: unmute ubuntu-release new quantal-release
[15:15] <cjwatson> unmute ubuntu-release new quantal-release
[15:15] <cjwatson> stgraber: ^- um
[15:16] <stgraber> unmute queue new quantal-release
[15:16] <cjwatson> oh DOH
[15:16] <cjwatson> sorry :)
[15:16] <cjwatson> I seem to have syntactic confusion in my head
[15:17] <stgraber> well, I guess it'd help if the list returned by "mute" would be a bit nicer (rather than simply dumping the python list ;))
[16:28] <Daviey> cjwatson: hey, can you see any issues with upgrading the bzr format for sync-blacklist?
[20:56] <debfx> could someone please promote libkipi9 to main (libkipi8 was in main already)
[21:22] <cjwatson> Daviey: nope, makes sense - done
[21:23] <cjwatson> debfx: done
[21:24] <debfx> thanks
[21:29] <cjwatson> Daviey: (well, in progress, presumably LP will get round to it at some point)
[21:41] <cjwatson> Ah, there it is


[09:38] <AnAnt> I am recompiling the kernel is that I am applying a patch for MMC v4 device support , if that works, shall I upload the new source/patch somewhere in MOTU or so ?
[09:41] <ivoks> no, MOTU doesn't have anything to do with kernel
[09:41] <ivoks> you should make your patch available somewhere and make a notice on kernel-devel or here...
[09:44] <AnAnt> btw, it's not my patch, it already exists in 2.6.16
[09:45] <ajmitch> then it'll be in 2.6.17, which will be in edgy
[09:46] <AnAnt> ok
[09:46] <AnAnt> you don't add features to dapper, right ? just security fixes
[09:46] <ajmitch> correct
[09:47] <ajmitch> security & critical bug fixes
[09:47] <AnAnt> can I get the 2.6.17 from dapper-backports when u guys start working on edgy ?
[09:47] <ajmitch> no, backporting the kernel would be quite a maintenance hassle
[09:48] <ajmitch> as far as I know, there are no plans to do that
[09:48] <AnAnt> k
[09:51] <kimo> Hey, ubuntu official kernel has ipw2200 ver 1.1, which is newer than the one in 2.6.16 ?? (does this make sense) ?
[09:52] <AnAnt> oh btw, why are there additions in kernel 2.6.15 (by Ubuntu) that aren't in 2.6.16 ? don't the kernel guys trust it ?
[09:54] <kimo> :)
[09:54] <kimo> any idea when are we getting a kernel update for dapper
[09:55] <kimo> it still doesnt poweroff my laptop :)
[11:27] <AnAnt> help I get this error when compiling the kernel source: "Error in source file, line 35" , I get this from drivers/usb/net/zd1211/zddevlist.h
[03:59] <tuxmaniac> Has there been any success stories with BroadCom 4318 802.11 Card?
[05:09] <alex_joni> hello, I get an error during make-kpkg on a linux-source-2.6.15 (compiler & helper programs from apt-get build-dep linux-source-2.6.15) : Error(/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.15//kernel/printk.c:516): cannot understand prototype: 'ipipe_spinlock_t __ipipe_printk_lock = IPIPE_SPIN_LOCK_UNLOCKED; '
[05:43] <alex_joni> ok, found the problem (RTAI patch altered the comment inside kernel/printk.c)
[05:46] <crimsun> ah, I didn't read that you patched it
[05:47] <crimsun> (this connection is completely buggered)
[05:47] <alex_joni> crimsun: sorry, might have not been very clear on that :)
[05:48] <alex_joni> I see the dafault compiler is gcc 4.0, I used to use 3.x for kernel builds.. is the 4.0 ok?
[05:49] <crimsun> I can't speak for RTAI, but 4.0 is fine in dapper, yes
[05:49] <alex_joni> ok, thanks
[05:49] <crimsun> or whichever parts of 4.0.3 are used
[05:51] <mkrufky> BenC: yt?  I am reading bug # 33096 ... This is a result of your commit: 30fbd96c515f7ad612486dbd94099b0a461e406a ... Your commit message references an UbuntuBug 5773, but I am unable to locate that...  Anyhow, It looks to me as if your changeset is wrong.... If you can somehow confirm bug #5773 (missing on launchpad.net) , then I would be happy to fix this in upstream
[05:52] <BenC> 5773 is probably a bugzilla bug
[05:52] <mkrufky> ah, i'll take a look
[05:52] <mkrufky> not on bugzilla.kernel.org
[05:53] <mjg59> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[05:53] <BenC> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[05:53] <mkrufky> lol , silly me
[05:54] <alex_joni> any of you uses ccache when compiling new kernels?
[05:56] <mkrufky> ok, i see 5773, and this looks reasonable to me
[05:57] <mkrufky> one strange thing is that a message dated "2005-08-23" says "This bug has been fixed a long while ago, but for some reasons we forgot to close it." .... but the -git commit is dated "12 Dec 2005"
[05:57] <mkrufky> anyhow, I'll fix this in upstream for 2.6.18 , and i'll note it on the launchpad.net bug
[06:01] <zul> meh...stupid typos
[06:07] <alex_joni> any idea what : drivers/built-in.o: In function `imacfb_probe':imacfb.c:(.init.text+0xc91): undefined reference to `efi' means?
[06:07] <mjg59> It means you're trying to build a kernel without efi support?
[06:07] <alex_joni> mjg59: there should be a CONFIG_EFI or similar?
[06:08] <mjg59> Yes
[06:08] <zul> mmmm...champisonhip manager
[06:08] <alex_joni> mjg59: I started with a .config from a 2.6.12, and used make oldconfig.. is that bad?
[06:09] <mjg59> Yes. Just enable EFI.
[06:09] <alex_joni> ok, thanks
[08:34] <alex_joni> anyone knows where the bootsplash is in ubuntu?
[08:34] <alex_joni> I built a new kernel, which boots alright, but it stay black during the bootphase
[08:36] <crimsun> that's usplash, which is userspace
[08:36] <crimsun> bootsplash isn't in the kernel at all
[08:37] <alex_joni> err, sorry.. that's what I meant.. is there a special .config entry I need to take care of (FB or defaultresolution or something like that?)
[08:38] <ajmitch> morning crimsun
[08:38] <crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
[08:38] <alex_joni> crimsun: the stock 2.6.15 works as it should, just my fresh built kernel doesn't
[08:38] <crimsun> alex_joni: there are a number of CONFIG_FB{,_*} enabled as 'y', yes
[08:40] <infinity> We build all the FB stuff modular, actually, but having it builtin would work just as well.
[08:40] <alex_joni> crimsun: checked them (they are similar to the ones in the stock config )
[08:40] <alex_joni> most of them 'm' some 'y'
[08:41] <infinity> alex_joni: You need (at this point) either vga16fb or vesafb to make usplash happy.
[08:41] <alex_joni> I just diffed my config against the stock one, and I only added one line (related to RTAI), the rest is the same
[08:41] <infinity> vesafb will only work if you're booting with vga=XXX on the command line, otherwise you want vga16fb (which is what we default to)
[08:41] <crimsun> alex_joni: did you regenerate the initramfs?
[08:42] <alex_joni> crimsun: I used make-kpkg to make a new kernel deb and installed that. is that enough?
[08:42] <infinity> CONFIG_FB_VGA16=m
[08:42] <infinity> CONFIG_FB_VESA=m
[08:42] <ajmitch> heh, morning infinity
[08:42] <alex_joni> infinity: both set
[08:42] <crimsun> alex_joni: infinity knows this area better than I do. Did you use --initrd ?
[08:43] <alex_joni> yes
[08:43] <alex_joni> make-kpkg --initrd --revision=aj1 --stem=linux binary-arch
[08:43] <crimsun> I believe you need to exec update-initramfs, then
[08:43] <infinity> crimsun: make-kpkg SHOULD be popping the update-initramfs call in the kernel postinst.
[08:44] <infinity> Unless we messed that up for custom kernels, and we're only doing it on stock builds.... Which would suck.
[08:44] <infinity> And would warrant an upload to -updates, IMO.
[08:44] <alex_joni> infinity: any way to check?
[08:44] <crimsun> grep initramfs /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-$(uname -r).postinst
[08:44] <infinity> grep update-initramfs /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-2.6.15-23-686.postinst
[08:45] <infinity> (replacing with your package name)
[08:45] <infinity> Which, if you didn't use --stem=linux, is probably "kernel-image-$foo"
[08:45] <alex_joni> I did use --stem=linux
[08:45] <infinity> Kay, then linux-image-$foo. :)
[08:46] <alex_joni> it says: "my $update_initramfs = "/usr/sbin/update-initramfs";"
[08:46] <alex_joni> so I guess it does get called
[08:47] <infinity> Should do, yes.
[08:47] <infinity> You're booting with "splash" on the command line>
[08:47] <infinity> s/>/?/
[08:47] <alex_joni> yes
[08:48] <alex_joni> same grub/menu.lst entry as for the stock 2.6.15-23-386
[08:49] <infinity> Can you toss me your .config?
[08:49] <alex_joni> infinity: sure
[08:49] <infinity> This may be easier to debug if I just see it in action.
[08:49] <infinity> Or, alternately, toss me your kernel packages.
[08:49] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/config-2.6.15-magma
[08:49] <infinity> I trust that you won't trojan then in the next 5 seconds.
[08:49] <infinity> s/then/them/
[08:50] <alex_joni> it might take me more than 5 seconds to upload them ;) hang on
[08:51] <infinity> Yeah, I see no obvious reason why this config should hate you.
[08:51] <infinity> update-initramfs -u -k 2.6.15-magma
[08:51] <infinity> That should regenerate the initramfs (again)
[08:51] <infinity> But I'm curious about why it's breaking in the first place, so a copy of your package might be nice.
[08:52] <alex_joni> they are on their way..
[08:52] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/~juve/tempdebs/ - but it will be a short while till they make it all there
[08:53] <alex_joni> infinity: need the source too?
[08:54] <infinity> Nah.
[08:55] <alex_joni> doc is finished,  headers & image next
[08:56] <zul> brb...new kernel
[09:17] <alex_joni> infinity: done, they are there
[09:18] <infinity> .ro ... You're not some l33t Romanian script kiddie trying to eat my computer, right? :)
[09:18] <alex_joni> infinity: I surely hope not ;)
[09:18] <infinity> (Why are there so many script kiddies in .ro?  I've not yet figured this out)
[09:18] <alex_joni> neither have I.. too much spare time?
[09:19] <infinity> Could be.  Someone needs to get them all involved in constructive hacking.
[09:19] <infinity> Or, show them the outside world.  Wichever.
[09:19] <alex_joni> I tried.. but failed :)
[09:19] <infinity> "Look, there's sun and grass and stuff out there!"
[09:20] <alex_joni> I think option #2 is more appropriate.. (except that right now it's raining cats & dogs)
[09:20] <infinity> I rather like cats, but I suppose at high velocity they may be painful.
[09:21] <alex_joni> it does help that they land on their feet each time..
[09:21] <infinity> Not when that means claws on your head.
[09:22] <alex_joni> actually I think they extend their claws only afterwards.. on first impact they should be retracted :D
[09:23] <infinity> Okay, your kernel image is installed.
[09:23] <infinity> Time to reboot and get my machine hX0red. :)
[09:24] <alex_joni> infinity: btw, thanks for looking at this..
[09:38] <alex_joni> mjg59: still around? I seem to have run again into a problem with efi..
[09:41] <infinity> alex_joni: Okay, that was informative.  Spotted the difference.
[09:41] <alex_joni> infinity: what is it?
[09:41] <infinity> From our package build scripts:
[09:41] <infinity> if [ -f kernel/drivers/video/vesafb.ko ] ; then
[09:41] <infinity>         ln kernel/drivers/video/vesafb.ko initrd
[09:41] <infinity> fi
[09:42] <infinity> make-kpkg doesn't do that.
[09:42] <alex_joni> oh, I see
[09:42] <infinity> And initramfs-tools is specificall sanning the initrd directory to see if you have framebuffers there you want to include.
[09:42] <infinity> Err, with the mkdir even:
[09:42] <infinity> mkdir initrd
[09:42] <infinity> if [ -f kernel/drivers/video/vesafb.ko ] ; then
[09:42] <infinity>         ln kernel/drivers/video/vesafb.ko initrd
[09:42] <infinity> fi
[09:42] <alex_joni> ok, so what do you advice?
[09:43] <infinity> There.  So, you can just do that by hand in /lib/modules/$(uname -r) and regenerate your initramfs, and you'll be golden.
[09:43] <infinity> Or, stop using vga=XXX on your command line, cause vga16fb will work fine with your kernel.
[09:43] <alex_joni> infinity: I need to produce debs that will be distributed
[09:43] <infinity> We should probably fix make-kpkg to do the initrd/ thing for custom kernels, but that's not going to happen in dapper.
[09:44] <alex_joni> hmm, afaik this worked in breezy
[09:44] <infinity> Did you ever actually test with "vga=XXX" in  breezy?
[09:44] <infinity> Without it, this would be working fine.
[09:44] <alex_joni> but I don't have vga=XXX.. do I?
[09:44] <infinity> You almost certainly do.
[09:45] <infinity> Otherwise, you'd not be seeing the black screen.
[09:45] <alex_joni> any idea where the vga=XXX could come from?
[09:45] <infinity> cat /proc/cmdline
[09:45] <infinity> Mine, for example:
[09:46] <infinity> root=/dev/sda3 ro quiet splash vga=0x343
[09:46] <infinity> That last bit says "use vesafb, or give me a useless black screen if it's not available!"
[09:46] <alex_joni> root=/dev/hdb9 ro quiet splash
[09:46] <infinity> And it's not available, cause initramfs-tools isn't copying it into the initramfs.
[09:46] <infinity> Okay, that's bizarre...
[09:46] <alex_joni> no vga here.. :-/
[09:47] <infinity> Let me reboot again, but I'm pretty sure your kernel should worh with vga16fb...
[09:47] <alex_joni> another topic, when I remove ACPI support (because RTAI conflicts with it), I get build errors... any ideea about something like this?
[09:56] <infinity> Oh, I am so awesome, it hurts. ?/
[09:56] <alex_joni> infinity: don't tell me you nailed it?
[09:57] <infinity> alex_joni: Because initramfs-tools isn't finding any framebuffers in /initrd/, it's not loading fbcon.
[09:57] <infinity> No fbcon, no usplash.
[09:57] <infinity> And yes, this behaviour has changed since breezy, since I'm an idiot.
[09:57] <infinity> Sort of.
[09:57] <alex_joni> ok.. so basicly a make-kpkg bug?
[09:57] <infinity> Well, a me bug.
[09:58] <alex_joni> infinity: happens to all of us ;)
[09:59] <alex_joni> usually on this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/
[10:00] <infinity> Now, the trick to fix this in your custom images is to do the following:
[10:00] <infinity> Take the snippet I pasted above, and stick it in a shell script called "post-install"
[10:01] <infinity> And then cp post-install your-linux-source-tree/debian/post-install before you do the make-kpkg thing.
[10:01] <alex_joni> oh, ok
[10:01] <alex_joni> trying now
[10:01] <infinity> Give or take.
[10:01] <infinity> This is untested. :)
[10:02] <infinity> You probably want this before it:
[10:02] <infinity> cd "$IMAGE_TOP/lib/modules/$version"
[10:03] <alex_joni> do I make it a proper shell script? #!/bin/sh on top?
[10:03] <infinity> If "dpkg-deb -c blah.deb" shows a /lib/modules/`$uname -r`/initrd directory with vesafb.ko in it when you're done, you win.
[10:04] <infinity> alex_joni: Yes, a proper shell script.
[10:04] <infinity> Exectuable, too. :)
[10:04] <alex_joni> done
[10:04] <alex_joni> now if I could only make it build :(
[10:04] <infinity> It gets called by make-kpkg after installing all the junk in the image directory, but before generating the .deb
[10:04] <infinity> Our Ubuntu post-install is a bit more involved, but that's one of the things it does.
[10:04] <alex_joni> ok, thanks for the fix
[10:05] <alex_joni> any idea about how to make it compile with ACPI unset?
[10:06] <infinity> That, I have no idea about.
[10:06] <infinity> Or, rather, I can't beging to have a clue given your "I get build errors" synopsis above.
[10:06] <alex_joni> I can post a better error message
[10:07] <alex_joni> arch/i386/kernel/built-in.o: In function `setup_arch': undefined reference to `check_acpi_pci'
[10:07] <alex_joni> drivers/built-in.o: In function `imacfb_probe':imacfb.c:(.init.text+0x1039): undefined reference to `efi'
[10:08] <infinity> That first one definitely shouldn't be happening...
[10:09] <alex_joni> I see it still is included by a #define CONFIG_X86_IO_APIC
[10:09] <infinity> #ifdef CONFIG_X86_IO_APIC
[10:10] <infinity>         check_acpi_pci();       /* Checks more than just ACPI actually */
[10:10] <infinity> #endif
[10:10] <infinity> Yeah.
[10:10] <alex_joni> there's a comment there "Checks more than just ACPI actually"
[10:10] <infinity> You beat me there.
[10:10] <alex_joni> right.. that one
[10:10] <alex_joni> I tried unsetting the X86_IO_APIC, but make oldconfig probably put it back
[10:11] <infinity> I'm assuming that should be #if defined(CONFIG_X86_IO_APIC) && defined(CONFIG_ACPI)
[10:11] <infinity> Or the former should depend on the latter.
[10:11] <alex_joni> I can change that (for a quick fix now)
[10:11] <alex_joni> any idea about the efi?
[10:11] <infinity> Haven't played with EFI on x86 at all yet.  Someone needs to send me a MacTel to play with.
[10:12] <alex_joni> what's efi actually?
[10:12] <infinity> Early load firmware for ia64 (and now MacTel) machines.
[10:13] <alex_joni> ok, the acpi stuff now doesn't complain anymore..
[10:14] <infinity> Comparable to, say, OpenFirmware on PowerPC, OBP on Sparc, SRM on Alpha, or the godforsaken PC BIOS on traditional x86 kit.
[10:14] <alex_joni> oh. ok :)
[10:14] <infinity> (Not really comparable to the PC BIOS at all, but for the purpose of booting, serves the same needs)
[10:14] <alex_joni> I see the error comes from drivers/video/imacfb
[10:15] <alex_joni> I'll unset CONFIG_FB_IMAC
[10:16] <alex_joni> seems to have done the trick..
[10:16] <alex_joni> brb, getting some dinner while it compiles
[10:16] <alex_joni> thanks again for all your help & insight