[00:51] <MythbuntuGuest96> nvidia x server is displaying a totally different screen on my tv to what is on my monitor - what do I need to change?
[00:53] <MythbuntuGuest96> I am just seeing a plain XFCE screen on the TV
[01:14] <Jakal> can anyone give me a hand with my installation?
[01:16] <Jakal> having trouble with the mythbuntu control centre
[01:16] <Jakal> i choose to install something i click apply and it looks like it installed it. but when i go back into the control centre is not checked.
[01:17] <Jakal> happens in 'applications and plugins'
[01:17] <Jakal> and most of the other tabs
[01:59] <Jakal> i checked the forums but came up with nothing for my situation
[02:05] <JThundley> that's a weird one
[02:09] <Jakal> it seems to be only a few of the plugins.
[02:09] <Jakal> ive gotten most installed by doing it one by one. but if i choose one that doesnt work then none of the ones i tried installing with it will work either
[02:10] <JThundley> I think you can just install most of that stuff with apt-get
[02:13] <Jakal> ill give it a shot
[07:52] <daMaestro> moin
[07:59] <daMaestro> anyone using a pvr-150? i'm having strange issues with mythtv: http://dev.damaestro.us/myth.png
[08:00] <daMaestro> cat /dev/video0 > /path/to/test.mpg works
[13:00] <cmug> Hi, I just installed 7.10 mythbuntu, my other DVB card worked fine, the other one (phillips saa7146) wanted a firmware, I got that and it loaded, but I dont have any /dev/videoX for it so mythbuntu doesn't know it exists. Any ideas? Its a technotrend card
[13:02] <cmug> the /dev/dvb/adapter*/[frontend0|dvr0|demux0|net0] are there
[13:04] <cmug> using 'scan' -a /dev/dvb/adapter1/ /thepathtothefrequenciesfile works fine. Can I somehow just create the /dev/adapter1 device?
[13:04] <cmug> or am I missing a module
[13:14] <cmug> oh wait i think I made a mistake
[13:36] <portahex> dvb doesn't use /dev/video*
[13:41] <cmug> yes, I was just confused
[13:43] <cmug> Should I worry about "Data Refresh needed because offset day 2 has less than 4 programs per channel for the 6PM - midnight time window for channels that normally have data. We want at least 336 programs, but only found 132
[13:43] <cmug> "
[13:44] <cmug> i ran mythfilldatabase --manual and its doing this Grabber command for the 3rd time already
[13:45] <cmug> date increases I guess
[17:42] <blackest> Hi I have a slight issue with mythtvbackend starting before mysql is ready I've modified the mythtv-backend script to sleep 300 so mysql has time to get going and that works but justin calls this a hack and I really need a 'depends on mysql' line in that script anyone able to help me with this ?
[17:46] <tritium> Hello, jono.
[17:47] <jono> hey tritium
[17:49] <portahex> mmm... bacon...
[17:51] <baz> Hi can u help - having trouble with nova-t500 remote control not detected - am using latest firmware & IRW gives nothing
[18:24] <Daviey> ah well.. i had a solution for him
[18:45] <mindframe_> what's the best remote control to use w/ mythtv
[20:12] <JThundley> mindframe_: they all work pretty much the same
[20:13] <JThundley> you map a button to do something and set the buttons to do whatever you want
[20:13] <JThundley> some remotes are detected out of the box better than others
[21:30] <fatfecker> anyone here got any idea how to configure a Hauppauge WinTV Nova-TD USB2 TV card for mythbuntu?
[21:31] <Dr_willis> check the mythtv homepage to see if its supported at all first?
[21:31] <Dr_willis> I know nothing of the usb-tv gizmos. :(
[21:32] <fatfecker> couldn't fit a PCI card in my laptop :/
[22:34] <fatfecker> hmm, seems it isn't currently supported
[22:34] <fatfecker> will come back in 6 months :(
[23:16] <williammanda_> hey guys
[23:17] <williammanda_> i have installed powertweak through synaptic.....it doesn't show in the gui....i'm wondering what to type in terminal to start this?
[23:21] <ublender_> it depends on the app
[23:21] <ublender_> try powertweak
[23:23] <williammanda_> william@PIV3G:~$ powertweakd
[23:23] <williammanda_> You need to be root to run powertweakd.
[23:23] <williammanda_> william@PIV3G:~$ powertweak
[23:23] <williammanda_> bash: powertweak: command not found
[23:24] <williammanda_> i'm not sure where to go look for the command to start it
[23:26] <ublender_> ah, sorry then
[23:26] <ublender_> try the documentation for the program online
[23:26] <ublender_> google it
[23:29] <williammanda_> ok ty
[23:37] <JThundley> williammanda_: it's gpowertweak
[23:38] <JThundley> I just installed and ran it because I was interested, it's not very interesting


[03:57] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:57] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:59] <jsgotangco> wow templates!
[03:59] <jsgotangco> (at last)
[04:05] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, do you know how to apply a diff patch?
[04:08] <Burgundavia> hmm, no idea
[04:08] <Burgundavia> someone else will pick it up
[04:09] <jsgotangco> well i want to pick it up
[04:09] <jsgotangco> (to learn)
[04:09] <Burgundavia> ask froud
[04:09] <Burgundavia> or jeffsch
[04:09] <Burgundavia> I have mostly been doing UI stuff recently
[04:12] <jsgotangco> ahh svn merge
[07:42] <_froud_> jsgotangco: why do you send a diff, why not just do the commit yourself?
[07:42] <jsgotangco> i did not send the diff
[07:42] <jsgotangco> :P
[07:42] <froud> ooops
[07:42] <jsgotangco> jjesse did
[07:42] <jsgotangco> i dont know how to patch
[07:42] <jsgotangco> thats why i havent committed it
[07:43] <froud> ok, you want to try it
[07:43] <jsgotangco> i do
[07:43] <jsgotangco> is that merge in esvn?
[07:43] <froud> no no
[07:43] <froud> lemme check the patch first gimme a sec
[07:44] <froud> ok save the diff file in to the kwick guide folder
[07:45] <jsgotangco> ok
[07:46] <froud> then do patch -p0 kquickguide.xml kquickguide.diff
[07:47] <jsgotangco> well ok thats only a patch command i was thinking esvn
[07:47] <froud> :-) esvn does not have atool for that
[07:48] <froud> it's good not that good
[07:48] <jsgotangco> ahh so patch is still just plain patch
[07:48] <froud> yeah
[07:48] <froud> I can speak to the devels at eSvn and ask them for a util to apply a patch
[07:48] <jsgotangco> how will you know if the patch is no good?
[07:48] <froud> you should check it
[07:49] <froud> then apply it
[07:49] <froud> if you are happy you just apply it. otherwise apply it and then fix
[07:49] <froud> remember you can always see the diff since you can do a quick diff
[07:50] <jsgotangco> o right
[07:50] <froud> most time I commit the patch so that it is recorded
[07:50] <froud> then I fix and submit another patch
[07:50] <froud> unless of course the patch has too many mistakes
[07:51] <jsgotangco> well the patch in this case is pretty trivial i dunno why he sent it hehe but then its a contribution
[07:51] <froud> but if they are small ones and the patch as a whole is good, then it does not hurt
[07:51] <froud> every patch is important
[07:51] <froud> no matter how small :-)
[07:52] <jsgotangco> ill take your word for it
[07:52] <froud> sure, as you say, "its a contribution"
[07:52] <froud> I like to call them gifts
[07:56] <froud> nice one
[07:56] <froud> now send a message to the list saying you have applied it, not everyone is on the commit list
[07:56] <jsgotangco> oh right
[07:56] <jsgotangco> thank you o mentor
[07:57] <froud> btw. kwickguide is looking good dude thanks for that
[07:58] <jsgotangco> oh i could have been done with it if not for this oracle project
[07:58] <froud> that's the way it goes. How's is the oracle ting doing
[08:00] <jsgotangco> well im trying out a new methodology called Rapid Start for E-Business Suite
[08:00] <froud> on 10g
[08:00] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:00] <froud> wow'
[08:00] <froud> I saw guys form oracle install and fine tune 10g in 18 minutes
[08:00] <jsgotangco> but im thinking of convincing the developers to testing it in Ubuntu instead of forcing clients to use old Red Hat 9
[08:01] <froud> can they install on a deb based system?
[08:01] <jsgotangco> well i can do that as a project
[08:01] <jsgotangco> (you never know)
[08:01] <jsgotangco> but then
[08:01] <jsgotangco> oracle's a big company
[08:02] <jsgotangco> (but its a good opportunity perhaps)
[08:02] <froud> sure
[08:03] <froud> So now you need screencaptures for quickguide, right?
[08:03] <jsgotangco> yeah ill cover it probably this weekend
[08:03] <froud> if you want help on it, send a message to the list
[08:03] <froud> do some adertising
[08:04] <jsgotangco> what's incoming for?
[08:04] <froud> oh, that's for the stuff that will come from wiki into svn
[08:04] <froud> before we know where or what to do with it
[08:04] <froud> we will put it there
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i saw some of your committed stuff had biblio tags already
[08:05] <froud> which the install guide?
[08:05] <jsgotangco> i think so
[08:05] <froud> yeah it also have glossterms
[08:05] <jsgotangco> i think i need to make a progress chart for some docs i adopted
[08:05] <jsgotangco> my day is getting messier lately
[08:05] <froud> but to use it you need to install computerdictionary-xx.deb
[08:06] <jsgotangco> does Ubuntu have a marketing team?
[08:06] <jsgotangco> (community based)
[08:07] <froud> not really community based
[08:07] <jsgotangco> well yeah, silbs for example
[08:07] <froud> some people at Canonical like mako do this stuff
[08:07] <jsgotangco> hmm
[08:07] <froud> yes and jane
[08:07] <jsgotangco> because i was looking at the OOo site
[08:07] <jsgotangco> their marketing team (community and sun) is huge
[08:08] <froud> yes
[08:09] <jsgotangco> (its because of this todo thing i have regarding flyer for ubuntu conferences)
[08:09] <jsgotangco> (we're not supposed to do flyers)
[08:09] <froud> oh really, why?
[08:11] <jsgotangco> well it means we still have to think of bling bling stuff to write about at the same time create the flyer
[08:11] <jsgotangco> (not that its hard to do)
[08:11] <jsgotangco> (but then OOo marketing stuff was createdby community so..)
[08:12] <froud> Well there should be no real reason why people in the community can't do marketing stuff
[08:12] <jsgotangco> yeah maybe i should propose one
[08:12] <froud> sometimes people forget that this is not about mark or canonical, its about what the community wants to do
[08:13] <froud> if the above mentioned want to succeed then they must embrace what they community wants
[08:13] <froud> so far they are doing a fair job
[08:13] <froud> not easy, when you consider the millions of ideas and thoughts
[08:14] <jsgotangco> true and we're just a drop in the OS space at the moment
[08:14] <jsgotangco> (collabnet sure does look sweet on the ooo site though)
[08:14] <froud> but if you have ideas for marketing I am certain silbs will be interested
[08:14] <froud> I have an ubuntu poster that I can contribute
[08:14] <jsgotangco> can i take a look?
[08:15] <froud> Big file
[08:15] <froud> I will commit an inkscape version sometime today
[08:15] <froud> I need to port it from freehand
[08:16] <jsgotangco> ahhh ok
[08:16] <froud> Ok I also have the basics for a Kubuntu poster
[08:16] <jsgotangco> you did it yourself?
[08:16] <froud> Yes
[08:17] <froud> The posters are sized 60cm X 90 cm
[08:17] <jsgotangco> im doing something in inkscape in A4 but its quite empty yet
[08:17] <froud> create a folder in trunk called artwork
[08:17] <froud> lets commit our ideas to there
[08:17] <jsgotangco> good idea
[08:18] <froud> you know how to create directories and do recursive add right?
[08:18] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:18] <froud> OK, the problem with inkscape is that it does not do a good export
[08:19] <jsgotangco> hmm
[08:19] <jsgotangco> wait
[08:19] <jsgotangco> you're telling me that we're exporting inkscape to xml
[08:19] <jsgotangco> not native inkscape
[08:19] <froud> so the method I use is to export the image at 600 dpi
[08:19] <Burgundavia> svg is already xml
[08:19] <froud> non o
[08:19] <Burgundavia> once you have the svg, you can do what you wish with it
[08:19] <froud> OK from svg you need a format for printing
[08:19] <jsgotangco> i know its xml i though we're exporting it to another format
[08:20] <froud> so i export to png at 600 dpi
[08:20] <froud> then open gimp
[08:20] <froud> flatten the image
[08:20] <froud> save
[08:20] <froud> many printers can't use png files
[08:21] <froud> so I use gimp to export to tiff and jpeg
[08:21] <froud> give the printer all three file
[08:21] <froud> I recently printed some posters on a 1200 dpi plaotter
[08:21] <froud> plotter
[08:22] <froud> the file was at 1200 dpi
[08:22] <jsgotangco> you do have some neat toys
[08:22] <froud> the images are great, cystal sharp
[08:22] <froud> its my job to have these toys
[08:22] <froud> do what you love, love what you do
[08:22] <jsgotangco> (ok i forgot you are in the documentation business)
[08:23] <froud> all the images on my web site are made in inkscape
[08:23] <froud> I was speaking lats wee with the editor of tectronic the FOSS magazine here in CO.ZA
[08:24] <froud> They are really looking to use a FOSS tool chain to do their magazine
[08:24] <froud> but the tool chain is not up to it just yet
[08:24] <froud> so they have to use closed source apps
[08:24] <froud> doing postscript on Linux is a bitch
[08:25] <froud> its then that you wish you were using Mac OSX
[08:26] <froud> if you go to print, make sure that your printer can open large files
[08:26] <froud> at 1200 dpi a poster 90 x 60 cm was 3GB
[08:27] <jsgotangco> jeez
[08:27] <froud> yeah, obviously it is smaller with 600dpi
[08:27] <froud> but you need to watch out
[08:28] <froud> lower dpi results in blurred edges on curves
[08:28] <froud> 600 should be enough
[08:28] <froud> if not up to 1200
[08:28] <jsgotangco> but is it possible to change that in inkscape in the middle of work?
[08:28] <froud> yes, it scales well b'cause it is svg
[08:29] <froud> you can start work at A4 and scale later
[08:29] <jsgotangco> yes that would be nice
[08:29] <froud> remember toleave some bleed on the page
[08:29] <froud> for example
[08:29] <froud> ifyou what full color on the page, no white border
[08:30] <froud> make the background larger than the page size
[08:30] <froud> they will print in oversized A3 paper and cut it to A3
[08:30] <froud> same with other sizes
[08:30] <jsgotangco> yes yes, i've seen some raw prints and they overlapt
[08:31] <froud> yes, so long as you have bleed you will have a full color background
[08:31] <froud> of course if you print on a plotter you will have no choice but to accept a white border about 3cm all around
[08:32] <froud> but that's ok the poster still looks coll
[08:32] <froud> cool
[08:33] <jsgotangco> plotters rely on cmyk as well right?
[08:33] <froud> yes, but png is rgb
[08:34] <froud> I used rbg, the result was not exactly the color tones I wanted, but it was close enough
[08:34] <froud> btw for the most part the svg is easily imported to freehand and illustrator
[08:35] <froud> on complex images some lines come in all borked
[08:35] <froud> but simple lines work well
[08:35] <froud> the problem seemed to be with gradients
[08:36] <froud> if you use gradients make sure you also get a high dpi, otherwise some printers give you big steps
[08:36] <jsgotangco> i dont get it what did gradients have to do with complex lines
[08:36] <jsgotangco> the gradients are supposed to be printed on large presses
[08:36] <jsgotangco> not simple plotters
[08:37] <froud> Complex lines seem to go borked, but simple lines like a circle with gradient also have problems
[08:37] <froud> that is why I just exported a png at 1200 dpi and then used gimp
[08:37] <froud> at first I was going to import the svg into freehand
[08:38] <froud> that is when I found the problem
[08:38] <froud> I guess the standards are not yet there to support seemless interchange
[08:38] <froud> but once svg is stable, it will make an excellent interchange format
[08:39] <froud> hey I must go. gotto take daughters to school and then I have a meeting, new customer :-)
[08:39] <jsgotangco> wow
[08:39] <jsgotangco> ok
[08:39] <froud> will commit my posters later
[08:39] <jsgotangco> the money pot just keeps on pouring
[08:39] <froud> hard work though
[08:39] <jsgotangco> its always like that
[08:40] <jsgotangco> nothing ventured nothing gained
[08:40] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:40] <froud> gotto keep the work rolling for all these writers I am now employing
[08:40] <froud> oh well, gotto make jobs for the unemployed
[08:40] <froud> bye
[11:26] <jsgotangco> gyahhh CC meeting is 6am
[11:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:27] <jsgotangco> oh well
[11:27] <Burgundavia> when is the CC meeting?
[11:27] <jsgotangco> 22:00 UTC May 24
[11:27] <Burgundavia> 3pm for me
[11:27] <jsgotangco> curse you heh
[11:38] <Seveas> midnight for me :S
[11:39] <Burgundavia> can't please everyone
[11:50] <mdke> morning all
[11:51] <Burgundavia> salut
[11:55] <mdke> hi jsgotangco
[11:56] <jsgotangco> hey
[11:57] <jsgotangco> mdke, hows it going?
[11:57] <mdke> fine thanks, you?
[11:57] <jsgotangco> not bad
[11:57] <jsgotangco> (its raining outside though and i want to go home)
[11:58] <mdke> hmm
[11:58] <jsgotangco> whats on your mind
[11:59] <mdke> not much at all
[11:59] <mdke> i just got up
[11:59] <mdke> i'm thinking about all the work i have to do today :(
[11:59] <jsgotangco> what kind of work, student work or work work to make a living
[11:59] <mdke> student work
[11:59] <jsgotangco> (student work isn't so bad)
[11:59] <mdke> perhaps "work" was the wrong word ;)
[12:00] <jsgotangco> id probably go back to school too if i had time
[12:01] <mdke> i'm sick of it now
[12:01] <jsgotangco> (if i was taking law id be sick of it too)
[12:01] <mdke> *laughs*
[12:01] <jsgotangco> i almost took up law 6 years ago
[12:03] <mdke> didnt like it?
[12:04] <jsgotangco> my first job was in a law firm
[12:04] <jsgotangco> it did liason work
[12:04] <jsgotangco> pretty sleazy stuff, we were in real estate
[12:05] <mdke> *grins*
[12:05] <mdke> sleazy lawyers ;)
[12:06] <jsgotangco> yeah we had to bring lots of gifts to court people during christmas
[12:08] <jsgotangco> it would be nice if GNOME Clock would say what timezone it is using (such as printing out UTC)
[12:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:09] <mdke> yeah
[12:09] <jsgotangco> i look at my clock and it says 10:09 but outside i see stars
[12:09] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:09] <mdke> system -> admin -> time and date ;)
[12:10] <jsgotangco> no i meant having UTC explicitly indicated in the display
[12:10] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:24] <jsgotangco> ok im  out see you in the CC meetikng later
[12:24] <jsgotangco> bye
[12:25] <mdke> bye
[04:45] <Kinnison> Morning
[04:58] <Burgundavia> morning Kinnison
[05:06] <Kinnison> burgey.
[05:29] <jiyuu0> Fresh from oven...
[05:29] <jiyuu0> Unofficial Ubuntu 5.04 Add-On CD
[05:29] <jiyuu0> Applications Snapshots: 23rd May 2005
[05:29] <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuguide.org/add-on-cd/
[05:29] <jiyuu0> Packages List: http://ubuntuguide.org/add-on-cd/add-on-cd-2005-05-23
[08:09] <mdke> jiyuu0, ooh what is ubuntu.xpm.gz like?
[08:09] <mdke> you got a url/screenshot ?
[08:15] <mdke> found it
[08:18] <jjesse> afternoon
[08:24] <froud> hey dudes
[08:24] <froud> anyone had problems configuring wlan
[08:28] <mdke> froud, yes sometimes
[08:28] <froud> I have card initialized
[08:28] <froud> so i c it with iwconfig
[08:29] <froud> when I down eth0 which is LAN
[08:29] <froud> I can ping my gateway
[08:29] <froud> via eth1 (which is wlan)
[08:29] <mdke> ok
[08:29] <froud> but I cannot seem to get http working
[08:29] <mdke> are you getting the ip via dhcp?
[08:30] <froud> in /etc/network/interfaces
[08:30] <froud> no static
[08:30] <mdke> have you set up the nameservers?
[08:30] <mdke> can you ping <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[08:31] <froud> yes /etc/resolov.conf has three
[08:31] <froud> yes /etc/resolv.conf has three
[08:31] <froud> no I cant ping past my gateway
[08:31] <mdke> how odd
[08:32] <froud> but in /etc/networ/interfaces
[08:32] <mdke> have you tried taking your eth0 down before taking eth1 up?
[08:32] <froud> but in /etc/networt/interfaces
[08:32] <froud> I see that eth1 only has address and netmask defined
[08:32] <froud> yes eth0 was down
[08:33] <mdke> hmm
[08:33] <froud> shouldn't each iface have 'address' 'netmask' 'network' 'broadcast' values
[08:34] <mdke> lemme check
[08:34] <mdke> i just have address, netmask, gateway, wireless-essid
[08:35] <froud> in interfaces?
[08:35] <mdke> yeah
[08:35] <froud> ok lemme try add it with vi
[08:37] <froud> ok that works
[08:37] <froud> seems there is a bug in knetworkconf_module
[08:37] <mdke> what was missing?
[08:37] <froud> must speak to kubuntu-devel thanks
[08:37] <froud> when the wlan card is defined in interfaces
[08:38] <froud> it is missing everything except
[08:38] <froud> address and network values
[08:38] <mdke> hmm
[08:38] <froud> yeah, Hmm
[08:38] <mdke> ;)
[08:38] <mdke> Be BaCk LaTeR
[08:38] <mdke> TV
[08:38] <froud> ok lemme speak to the devels at Kubuntu
[09:01] <Burgundavia> I have to go looking for a job soon
[09:01] <Burgundavia> as my money is running low
[09:06] <jjesse> that stinks burgundavia, good luck
[09:07] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:07] <Burgundavia> I have been very happily unemployed for almost 3 months now
[09:07] <jjesse> wish i had the ability to stay unemployed for three months
[09:08] <Burgundavia> I got a 3k CAD paycheck just before I left
[09:08] <Burgundavia> my lastjob
[09:08] <Burgundavia> been leaving off that
[09:08] <zulu> how can I test who already registered a nick
[09:08] <jjesse> sorry can't help you o that one zulu
[09:08] <Burgundavia> no idea, you want to ask in a the freenod staff channel
[09:09] <zulu> dudes zulu is froud on his lappy sitting in lounge connected via wlan:-)
[09:09] <zulu> oh well just hav eto use my other nick
[09:12] <venda> Burgundavia: why dont you start your own business
[09:12] <venda> it beats working for somebody else
[09:14] <Burgundavia> nah, too much work
[09:14] <Burgundavia> I want to work for someone else 2-3 days a week
[09:14] <Burgundavia> and do Ubuntu/dev stuff the other 3-4
[09:15] <venda> why not start a software development company
[09:15] <Burgundavia> gah
[09:16] <venda> no really, do custom development
[09:16] <venda> you can work from home
[10:29] <venda> nite chaps
[10:30] <Kinnison> night
[10:30] <venda> c you in the morning


[00:32] <stas> jono: yep
[00:33]  * stas though a bit late
[00:48] <knome> nah... only an hour
[01:19] <jpds> knome: When you're competing against the speed of light, that is a long time.
[01:23] <knome> jpds, you're saying jono is the speed of light? :P
[01:32] <knome> ugh
[01:33] <knome> planet ubuntu redirects to pages that do not exist
[01:33] <knome> like
[01:33] <knome> http://www.ubuntu.com/Welcome
[01:33] <knome> http://www.ubuntu.com/developers
[01:33] <knome> newz2000, ^
[02:05] <MTecknology> mhall119: hey - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-website-community/ubuntu-website/light-drupal-theme/changes/1?start_revid=1
[02:05] <MTecknology> mhall119: all better now - did you jsut ler time take care of it?
[02:22] <MTecknology> cjohnston go buh-bye :(
[02:27] <MTecknology> cjohnston: we missed you- i cired
[03:31] <mhall119> MTecknology: eh?
[03:31] <mhall119> I did what you suggested
[03:31] <mhall119> create a new branch without any history
[03:33] <MTecknology> mhall119: ok - i guess that worked then
[03:33] <MTecknology> :P
[03:37] <mhall119> seems to
[03:49] <MTecknology> mhall119: how's the day going?
[10:21] <jpds> knome: No.
[10:21] <knome> jpds, no what? re: jono? :P
[13:30] <mhall119> MTecknology: day's just starting now


[06:42] <dholbach> good morning
[07:23]  * dholbach walks over to the office
[07:47] <alourie> good morning team
[07:48] <alourie> oops
[07:48] <alourie> wrong window
[08:00] <philipballew> hello Ubutnu
[08:26]  * dholbach considers breaking up the support page into multiple small ones as well: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/contribute/support/
[08:26] <dholbach> opinions?
[08:27] <dholbach> it'd be kind of like <IP_ADDRESS>/community/get-involved/developers
[08:30]  * dholbach goes ahead. :)
[08:34] <bkerensa> dholbach: ;)
[08:35] <bkerensa> dholbach: you should move to Florida :P
[08:35] <dholbach> why? :)
[08:44] <bkerensa> dholbach: your team is asleep when your awake :P
[08:44] <dholbach> that's their problem - not mine ;-)
[09:18] <nigelb> bkerensa: It's a very productive advantage.
[09:21] <dholbach> and there's always somebody awake :)
[10:14] <dholbach> balloons: let's chat later on about the QA community page
[10:31] <dholbach> dpm, got time for a brief hangout?
[10:32] <dpm> dholbach, sure, give me 2 minutes
[10:32] <dholbach> excellent, setting it up
[10:33] <dholbach> dpm, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a32cb923052c147ac8c4ad325daeed29a1a601e9?hl=de
[10:36] <jcastro> good morning!
[10:36] <jcastro> dholbach: hey man!
[10:39] <dholbach> hey jcastro
[10:39] <jcastro> wanna try something new and fresh this morning?
[10:39] <jcastro> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[10:39] <jcastro> dpm: ^^ you too!
[10:39] <jcastro> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/t/let-s-kick-the-tires-aka-the-feedback-thread-read-me-first/2
[10:41] <dholbach> jcastro, can you join https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a32cb923052c147ac8c4ad325daeed29a1a601e9 for a sec?
[10:43] <dholbach> jcastro, oi, you're muted
[10:50] <dpm> jcastro, that's...
[10:51] <dpm> pretty awesome!
[10:51] <dpm> and it's open source too, wow
[10:51] <dholbach> yeah, very nice
[10:57] <jcastro> 100% Free Software folks
[10:57] <jcastro> running on Ubuntu, on HP Cloud
[10:57] <jcastro> I am fully buzzword compliant!
[11:22] <nigelb> jcastro: You missed the opportunity to meantion Openstack somewhere.
[11:22] <nigelb> *mention
[11:44] <popey> nope
[11:44] <popey> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/t/this-discourse-forum-brought-to-you-by-juju-and-openstack-on-hp-cloud/17
[13:34] <popey> jcastro: 502 bad gateway on the discourse site
[13:35] <jcastro> he's restarting it
[13:35] <jcastro> takes a while. :-/
[14:32] <dholbach> balloons: already there? :)
[14:33] <balloons> dholbach, I'm guessing you want to talk about the community QA page :-) I
[14:33] <dholbach> yes :)
[14:33] <dholbach> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/contribute/quality/
[14:34] <jcastro> guys wanna do it now and get it out of the way?
[14:35] <dholbach> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4651a0ad9757f821eefe2d56fc0b285110ab621e
[14:35] <dholbach> balloons: and http://pad.ubuntu.com/aNBBojgxJg has the feedback about it
[14:36] <balloons> dholbach, I know I added that feedback :-p
[14:36] <balloons> nevertheless, I guess I can edit it today.. For you :-)
[14:43] <dholbach> balloons: want to hop on the hangout?
[14:46] <JoseAntonioR> dholbach: you on ubuntuonair right now?
[14:47] <balloons> dholbach, if I can stop bumping my computer and knocking my graphics card loose :-(
[14:47] <dholbach> JoseAntonioR, no, just chatting with the boys
[14:47] <JoseAntonioR> oh ok :)
[15:06] <balloons> dholbach, can I get the link to the markdown paste of the quality page?
[15:06] <balloons> since I keep locking my pc, it would be nice to have it logged so I don't have to keep bugging you for it
[15:08] <dholbach> paste.ubuntu.com/5713606/
[15:09] <dholbach> balloons: ^
[15:10] <balloons> dholbach, ty :-p
[15:12] <jcastro> hey guys
[15:12] <jcastro> I am having serious crashers today
[15:12] <popey> on what?
[15:13] <jcastro> raring with the smart scopes PPA
[15:14] <popey> ah, i dont have that ppa enabled
[15:14] <popey> too much crack ☻
[15:14] <jcastro> my nvidia settings got borked so like, scrolling off the left edge on the center monitor wraps it to the right panel
[15:14] <jcastro> heh
[15:50] <JoseAntonioR> dholbach: can we have a chat next friday (the 7th)? bot is ready for its use
[15:50] <dholbach> JoseAntonioR, nice - sure
[15:50] <JoseAntonioR> ok, then :)
[15:51]  * JoseAntonioR leaves for class
[15:51] <dholbach> mhall119, can we bzr the theme and put it up on https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website somehow?
[15:54] <mhall119> dholbach: did you make changes to it since I pushed https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/ubuntu-community-website/new-theme?
[15:54] <dholbach> mhall119, I don't know if ant did
[15:55] <dholbach> I'll ask
[15:56] <dholbach> mh
[15:56] <dholbach> mhall119, ant might have done something one day afterwards O:-)
[15:57] <mhall119> looks like it
[15:58] <dholbach> thanks a bunch mhall119!
[15:59] <mhall119> dholbach: updated that branch to rev 3 with the latest changes
[16:00] <dholbach> YES
[16:00] <dholbach> thanks mhall119!
[16:01] <mhall119> np
[16:01] <dholbach> hugs! :)
[16:02] <dholbach> all right, I think I'm going to call it a day now and head out for dinner before it starts raining :)
[16:07] <pleia2> dholbach: I have a pile of images for the site, just organizing, hope to have some to you by end of my day
[16:13] <dholbach> pleia2, perfect - I'll put them in tomorrow then :-D
[16:13] <dholbach> thanks a bunch pleia2
[16:13] <dholbach> see you :)
[16:39] <bkerensa> jcastro: y u no dogfood saucy yet?
[16:39] <bkerensa> :)
[16:55] <jcastro> shrug, nothing there for me yet.


[10:28] <duanedesign> awat
[10:28] <duanedesign> wat
[10:28] <duanedesign> sigh
[10:53] <swoody> We have any wiki gurus on here atm? :)
[11:07] <head_victim> swoody: depends on the issue as to how guru you need :) I can try if you like


[00:00] <akk> But I'm not asking so much about how to do the version control. I'm asking which files (of the huge eclipse workspace) do you include, and in what structure?
[00:00] <jdeslip> The instructions here might help you: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
[00:00] <akk> Version control and hosting I can figure out -- I have lots of non-Android opensource.
[00:00] <jdeslip> If you go to the launchpad page for my emusic app (linked above) you can browse the code and see what I included.
[00:01] <akk> I don't see any mention of android or eclipse on that bzr page.
[00:01] <jdeslip> I basically included all the files that would be necessary for someone else to run the code with or without eclipse
[00:01] <jdeslip> (so, I didn't include any eclipse specific stuff)
[00:02] <jdeslip> https://launchpad.net/emusicdownloader (then click on code tab)
[00:02] <akk> Yep, looking.
[00:02] <akk> So you pretty much make that decision by hand, which things are eclipse specific vs. not?
[00:03] <akk> (I'm very new to eclipse, so I haven't figured out what a lot of these directories are.)
[00:04] <jdeslip> Well, I don't actually use eclipse.  I do have a set up and everything, just mostly use vi ;)
[00:04] <akk> I'll definitely switch eventually. I don't much like IDEs.
[00:04] <jdeslip> If I remember right, even in eclipse those files I committed should be present and all you need to import the poject.
[00:05] <jdeslip> Doesn't eclipse just add a bunch of . files?
[00:05] <akk> But as an android newbie I'm actually finding eclipse's tips helpful (once I turned off the thoroughly awful "Content Assist"
[00:05] <jdeslip> (i.e. all eclipse specific files are . (or hidden) files
[00:05] <akk> I seem to have a lot of dirs you don't have in that project.
[00:05] <jdeslip> like which ones?
[00:06] <akk> assets, gen and bin
[00:07] <akk> bin is where the apk ends up
[00:07] <akk> but it has a ton of other stuff too
[00:07] <jdeslip> ah, those are generated after you compile
[00:07] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited
[00:07] <jdeslip> if you do, "ant clean" - I think those should go away.
[00:09] <jdeslip> I do have bin and gen anyway after a compile - assets I think is needed if you include other fonts etc that are not standard.  I guess you should also commit assets if it is not empty.
[00:10] <akk> Ah, turns out assets is empty for mine.
[00:11] <akk> And gen is probably not needed -- it contains R.java which I think was generated (from main.xml, maybe?)
[00:12] <jdeslip> Yes, I gen is not needed.  It will be recreated each time you compile (or run ant install on the command line)
[00:13] <jdeslip> same with bin
[00:13] <jdeslip> I think the only files needed are the ones I committed. Others have been able to check out my repo and run the code anyway...
[00:13] <akk> Cool, sounds like I can just copy the dirs you're using and that'll be enough.
[00:15] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/WebsiteTeam edited
[00:16] <akk> jdeslip: ooh, arxiv droid is yours too -- I saw that in the store (think I was searching for astronomy) and wondered what it was.
[00:16] <jdeslip> Ya, that's mine. arXiv.org is basically like an "open-source" scientific journal.
[00:17] <akk> Yep, I know about arXiv, just wasn't sure what the droid app did.
[00:17] <akk> Just download the latest articles?
[00:17] <akk> arXiv rocks.
[00:17] <jdeslip> Ya, you can browse and download/read the latest articles.  And also search the complete arXiv collection by author / title etc..
[00:17] <jdeslip> They have a pretty nice API - so writing the app was easy :)
[00:18] <jdeslip> I use it on the Bus every morning to see what is new in my field
[00:19] <akk> Very cool.
[00:19] <akk> That's sort of like what my feed reader is for, only much more specialized/technical.
[00:19] <akk> Do you read the papers as PDF?
[00:20] <jdeslip> Ya - arxiv droid downloads the pdfs and then opens them in whatever pdf reader app the user has installed.  If no pdf reader is installed it tells the user to get Adobe Reader from the market.
[00:21] <jdeslip> I suppose some sort of mobile optimized reading experience would be better - maybe in version 2.0 ;)
[00:21] <jdeslip> But the PDFs generally look good enough on my phone
[00:23] <jdeslip> akk: are you an astronomer?
[00:25] <akk> Just amateur.
[00:26] <akk> What's your field?
[00:28] <jdeslip> I'm a grad-student in Condensed Matter Physics
[00:29] <akk> Nice.
[00:29] <akk> Serious stuff. :)
[00:32] <jdeslip> Well, I get to a lot of fun computational stuff on super-computers etc...
[00:32] <jdeslip> Although, it is all in Fortran :/
[00:32] <akk> that is a drawback
[00:33] <akk> Some day science will switch languages.
[00:33] <akk> I talked to somebody at the USGS about a job translating data formats ... also using fortran (for string processing!)
[00:33] <jdeslip> Ya, some people have started using python actually.  And just calling libraries for the expensive stuff.
[00:34] <jdeslip> String processing in Fortran... that doesn't seem to make sense ;)
[00:34] <akk> Stuff like array processing on supercomputers probably still makes sense in Fortran. It's a really easy language to optimize, AIUI.
[01:01] <pleia2> gosh, I'll never get used to this city, I get an email from Seesmic and at the bottom is their address, in SF! they are just a couple miles away!
[01:01] <pleia2> this happens all the time now
[01:02]  * pleia2 can probably toss rocks off the roof and hit github's SF office
[01:02] <pleia2> but I wont, because github is good :)
[05:24] <The_Letter_M> Hello All
[05:24] <sn9> hi
[05:27] <The_Letter_M> Anyone seen (Ebox) Mark online lately?
[05:29] <jtatum> hmm
[05:31] <The_Letter_M> I need Ebox help and the Ebox & Zentyal chans are useless
[05:39] <The_Letter_M> perhaps somebody else would like to take a shot at my Q?
[05:44] <The_Letter_M> So I set up Zentyal on a fresh install of 10.04. I set up a UN and PW and then installed Zentyal from the PPA
[05:44] <The_Letter_M> I then log into Zentyal using the UN and PW I set up in Ubuntu and then set Zentyal up for Filesharing and set up some users
[05:45] <The_Letter_M> Now, the oter users can all log into the FS and access the shares but the UN I set up in Ubuntu cannot and I cannot ad it to Zentyal as a user either
[05:45] <The_Letter_M> it says the UN and PW already exist
[05:48] <The_Letter_M> Anyone know how I can import that account into Zentyal?
[06:00] <iheartubuntu> incredible. i was just using TeamViewer on my new iphone to access my Ubuntu desktop.
[06:01] <iheartubuntu> was able to even open up games, terminal, folders, etc no prob
[06:01] <iheartubuntu> could literally help people from anywhere (or in my case, screw things up from anywhere!)
[06:02] <pleia2> The_Letter_M: michael paric on the mailing list is a big zentyal user, might try asking on list
[06:04] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: nice :)
[06:29] <The_Letter_M> pleia2: there we go. I lost hist business card and couldn't remember his last name
[06:46] <The_Letter_M> Hey Mark
[06:50] <MarkDude> hello The_Letter_M
[16:17] <nUboon2Age> jtatum: any chance i could catch a ride down w/ you and jledbetter to The Lindependence/Ubuntu Hour: Santa Cruz, Wed. Dec 29th?
[16:21] <nUboon2Age> btw, i still need to pick a location and time for our first Palo Alto edition of The Ubuntu Hour for Dec 30th.  If anyone has suggestions (preferrably on/near California Ave, or University Ave, or the Menlo Park train station.   jtatum, crashsystems, aaditya, MarkDude, jamalta, sn9. wjimenez5271, Yasumoto, [reed], jiboumans
[16:22] <sn9> pizza place
[16:22] <nUboon2Age> sn9: well round table is available.  What do you think?
[16:24] <nUboon2Age> i was hesitating about Round Table on Cal Ave sn9, since its a big commercial chain, but if you feel okay about that location, i'd put it at the top of the list.
[16:33] <sn9> nUboon2Age: http://lists.svlug.org/archives/volunteers/2008q2/001159.html
[16:40] <seidos> nUboon2Age, hey.  how was ubuntu hour in mountain view last week?
[16:44] <seidos> nUboon2Age, i'd still like to meet up with you while i'm in the area (assuming my stay here is temporary, but that will depend on the job market i am guessing), but i'd prefer meeting up for more than an hour.  a 2 hour trip for a one hour meeting just seems kind of silly.
[17:07] <pleia2> seidos: both the "hours" I've been to lasted at least 2 (in fact, I had to leave early to catch the train)
[17:07] <pleia2> in mt view
[17:09] <seidos> ah, 2 for 2, that might be worth the trek then pleia2
[17:10] <akk> It's only an hour if no one else shows up. :)
[17:34] <nUboon2Age> sn9: i'll take it that you are okay with Round Table.
[17:35] <nUboon2Age> seidos: akk's answer goes for me too.  I really hope you can come down and join us.  We are free flowing with the 'hour' according to who's there and what they want to do, as long as the single hour is at least covered.
[17:36] <seidos> ack
[17:36] <sn9> personally, yes; however, the chances i may attend are relatively low regardless, and if i do, i'd bring my roommate, who would NOT be ok with round table
[17:37] <sn9> but that location was the only one i could think of that matched your criteria
[17:43] <seidos> what's bad about round table?
[17:43] <seidos> i mean, assuming you can afford it ^_^
[17:44] <seidos> i suppose there is the opportunity cost question, spend money on smaller more socially responsible organizations.
[17:48] <akk> What's bad about it besides the pizza?
[17:51] <sn9> all of the above
[17:51] <seidos> pizza snob
[17:52] <sn9> no, i mean cost+allergies/lactose intolerance
[17:53] <seidos> eh, i'm no fan of round table pizza.  but i'm sure they could make a pizza without cheese to order.
[17:54] <sn9> and without wheat too?
[17:58] <aaditya> nUboon2Age: sounds like a good idea, but I'll be out of town.
[18:03] <jtatum> nUboon2Age: sure, we can give a ride to santa cruz
[18:13] <outofjungle> ping aaditya
[18:35] <aaditya> outofjungle: pong
[18:37] <aaditya> outofjungle: gtalk would work better at this time though
[19:45] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/WhoDoesWhat edited
[20:27] <pleia2> yay, I have feb 25th off from work so I can go to SCaLE \o/
[22:15] <seidos> i had a thought earlier, wouldn't it be great if there was an actual "open office" where you could go and find other people to work on projects with?
[22:17] <akk> I think that's sort of what hackerspaces like hacker dojo are for
[22:17] <akk> except they're expensive
[22:19] <seidos> hacker dojo, that's interesting.  expensive?  why?
[22:19] <pleia2> yeah, at noisebridge (hackerspace) you can do that sort of thing there (and membership is not mandatory)
[22:20] <akk> seidos: Why? I assume because of paying rent+utilities on the building, net access etc though I haven't seen their balance sheet.
[22:20] <akk> Or maybe it's the dojo magnate raking in the big bucks while the peons suffer, who knows? :)
[22:20] <pleia2> hehe
[22:21] <seidos> i should probably visit.  i need to figure out a project that will net me my requisite needs...shelter and food at some point.
[22:21] <seidos> akk, or it's the finance magnates hording the cash in other fields.
[22:56] <jtatum> i've heard great things about noisebridge. not so much hacker dojo
[22:57] <seidos> i should visit noisebridge.  it isn't too far from me.
[22:57] <seidos> i could even walk there.  it's less than a 2 hour walk
[22:57] <seidos> save $2, heh


[10:07] <lux3_> hi
[10:08] <lux3_> i've got a small problem with mythbuntu: it seems mythfrontend starts before mythbackend is loaded. it then prompts me to enter language/backend ip. how can i prevent mythfrontend from starting before mythbackend?
[10:18] <__raven> "recording" shell session: do you know about a way/tool to record a shell session to a kind of ascii-video?
[17:36] <tgm4883> lux3_, you could add a sleep to the start script
[17:45] <lux3_> tgm4883: where's the start script located?
[17:46] <lux3_> i could also do a check in the start script if mythbackend is already running, and if not sleep until it's running
[17:46] <tgm4883> lux3_, IIRC, /usr/bin/mythfrontend
[17:46] <lux3_> while(mythbackend not running){sleep 2s} somethin like that
[17:47] <lux3_> hum but that would mean it sleeps every time i start frontend. i only want to put a sleep in when i turned on the computer
[17:48] <tgm4883> lux3_, I'll leave that to you then to figure out what to do
[17:50] <lux3_> tgm4883: would it be possible to start another script on computer startup?
[17:50] <tgm4883> I suppose so
[17:50] <lux3_> any idea how?
[17:52] <tgm4883> lux3_, we set the frontend to start by adding this file ~/.config/autostart/mythtv.desktop
[17:54] <lux3_> ok so i would have to delete this symlink and create a new .desktop file, pointing to my script?
[17:54] <tgm4883> lux3_, yes, or you could just alter that file to point to your script
[17:54] <tgm4883> gotta run
[17:54]  * tgm4883 out
[17:55] <lux3_> yes but if i modify that desktop file it would always when i launch frontend launch the modified script


[00:05] <sistpoty> LaserJock: have an opinion to my post to -motu about SRUs done now? maybe you'd like to follow up?
[00:06] <sistpoty> jdong, TheMuso, imbrandon ^^ ?
[00:14] <LaserJock> sistpoty: done
[00:14] <sistpoty> thanks LaserJock
[00:17] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm not too sure if I understand your response. If the archives are open, it would be possible to upload a fix for intrepid (or otherwise sync one)?
[00:18] <sistpoty> LaserJock: or do you mean that we shouldn't wait on syncs getting performed in the first bits of intrepid, due to possible delays when waiting for a fix in hardy?
[00:19] <LaserJock> well, I don't want to force people to do syncs/merges before the toolchain has settled down, etc.
[00:19] <LaserJock> I believe the schedule for 8.04.1 is pretty quick
[00:20] <persia> Why not?  If such a sync/merge introduces some issue with the toolchain, we can fix that.  I'd rather have an unstable dev platform than have untracked critical bug fixes.
[00:20]  * persia thought 8.04.1 was for October
[00:20] <LaserJock> well, I'd rather get the SRU done
[00:20] <persia> Why not do both?
[00:20] <sistpoty> LaserJock: ah, k, that explains
[00:20] <LaserJock> because honestly we're already fighting to get people to do SRUs in the first place
[00:21] <slangasek> persia: July, not October
[00:21] <persia> For gutsy, ScottK pushed everything into hardy the day it opened, and afterwards we followed the "fix in hardy first" rule.
[00:21] <LaserJock> having them do 2 uploads rather than 1 is quite a bit
[00:21] <slangasek> (eew, trying to do a point release at the same time as a regular release, shudder)
[00:21] <persia> slangasek: Ah.  That matches the outstanding RC list better :)
[00:21] <LaserJock> especially if there are problems testing on Intrepid, etc.
[00:22] <LaserJock> I guess I would summarize my position with "let's be sane" :-)
[00:22] <persia> OK.  I can see that, and as long as there's an open intrepid task, maybe it makes sense for a short time.
[00:22] <slangasek> I hate being sane
[00:22] <LaserJock> if MOTU SRU sees that it should be trivial to get a sync/merge in Intrepid go ahead an have that done
[00:22] <LaserJock> but if I'm going to make people go through 3 weeks work to get an SRU in that could take 1 week without dealing with Intrepid
[00:23] <LaserJock> I have a hard time justifying that added burden to be honest
[00:23] <persia> Well, doesn't that match the normal model?  For SRUs where the issue doesn't exist in the current development release (and not do to a patch, but an API transition or something), the "fix in dev first" rule is often overlooked.
[00:24] <LaserJock> well
[00:24] <LaserJock> ssshhhh
[00:24] <persia> heh
[00:25] <LaserJock> you can't say that when the RM is looking ;-)
[00:25] <persia> I'd think the RM would agree that it's better to not FTBFS in a stable release, even if the ABI switched back, and the old source builds in the dev release, but I may be mistaken.
[00:26] <persia> s/ABI/API/
[00:26] <slangasek> I will neither agree nor disagree with a statement that I can't seem to parse :-)
[00:27] <sistpoty> heh, /me just wants to give people s.th. that they can work on right now *g*
[00:28]  * persia seconds sistpoty: Now is the best time to get testers for SRUs for hardy.
[00:28] <LaserJock> totally
[00:29] <sistpoty> yeah, and /me will in a few minutes give slangasek s.th. to put through the queue :P
[01:03] <sistpoty> slangasek: mind to approve xmms-crossfade from hardy-proposed? (it's a rebuild only)
[01:44] <sistpoty> lol, there's a lp team canonical-smokers *g*
[01:45] <wgrant> Can we avoid the SRU waiting period for upgrade failures?
[01:45] <wgrant> Particularly for trivial missing Conflicts/Replaces on python-*.
[01:46] <sistpoty> wgrant: well, that's motu-sru to decide imho
[01:46] <slangasek> sistpoty: hrrm, why are you not listed on https://launchpad.net/~motu-sru/+members as a current member if you're asking me to approve packages through hardy-proposed? :)
[01:46] <slangasek> oh, it's acked by jdong, ok :)
[01:46] <sistpoty> slangasek: because I've already got an ack from them ;)
[01:46] <sistpoty> heh
[01:46]  * jdong grins at the connotation of "oh. jdong acked it."
[01:47] <sistpoty> haha
[01:47]  * sistpoty is usually quite good when it comes to buerocracy... I'm german :P
[01:51] <LaserJock> sistpoty: haha
[01:59] <sistpoty> thanks slangasek!
[02:17]  * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8 everyone
[02:17] <wgrant> Night sistpoty.
[02:24] <Kafka> what is motu ?
[02:26] <ScottK> Kafka: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[02:26] <ScottK> Good evening everyone.
[02:26] <wgrant> Morning ScottK.
[02:27] <ScottK> Re: SRUs, I personally think MOTUs should be sensible enough we don't need a motu-sru team, but it doesn't seem I'll get my wish on that.
[02:27] <wgrant> ScottK: 'should' being the keyword there.
[02:27] <ScottK> Yep.
[02:28] <ScottK> I think it'd be fine to leave -proposed uploads open and then use peer pressure to 'encourage' people to learn better habits.
[02:28] <ScottK> But that's just me.
[02:29] <jdong> ScottK: I'm not so sure about that though, while reviewing the SRU queue it's taken at least one interation on average before version numbers are correctly mangled, etc
[02:30] <jdong> ScottK: I personally would like easier SRU'ing too but I think that's a cultural/social mentality change rather than a process change
[02:30]  * ScottK notes that one member of the MC thought it appropriate to upload untested stuff to -proposed to find out if it worked.
[02:31] <ScottK> I will confess to having almost completely lost interest in doing SRUs since the new team was stood up.
[02:32] <jdong> ScottK: personally I wouldn't mind a much more liberal SRU policy that just bars backwards-incompatible changes, i.e. slightly more conservative than Fedora
[02:33] <jdong> i.e. I'm looking at the new KTorrent point-releases and I'm tempted to do those as SRUs
[02:33] <jdong> but that'll probably raise more eyebrows than I want
[02:33] <ScottK> Aren't those in Main anyway?
[02:33] <jdong> ScottK: even more unfortunately, yes.
[02:36] <ScottK> Are the mirrors starting to calm down yet?
[02:36] <jdong> nope
[02:38] <ScottK> My desktop still has my original Kubuntu install from two years ago (with Automatix - before I knew better).  Once things calm down a bit, I'm going to see how well that upgrades and maybe file some bugs/do some SRUs.
[02:38] <wgrant> Bad ScottK.
[02:38] <ScottK> I was new.  I didn't know better.
[02:38] <wgrant> At least it's dead now.
[02:38] <ScottK> Yep.
[02:39] <ScottK> Is Edgy eol yet?  The 26th is the day, right?
[02:40] <slangasek> the 26th, so I guess it won't be moved around until Monday :)
[02:41] <wgrant> Hm, it's the 26th UTC now.  Security: as much as the rest, as long as the code isn't too different.
[02:45] <ScottK> Backports, not much either (people pretty much stop asking).
[02:45] <wgrant> I can't imagine the type of people that want backports would be running older releases.
[02:45] <pwnguin> is abiword likely to get a backport /sru?
[02:45] <nxvl> ScottK: i update my system every 4/6 months :D
[02:45] <jdong> wgrant: typically interest dies down in exponential decay when a new release is available
[02:46] <ScottK> Speaking of which ...
[02:46] <jdong> wgrant: at most requests come in for the n-1th release if the nth release is problematic
[02:46] <wgrant> pwnguin: It will definitely not be SRUed to 2.6.
[02:46] <wgrant> jdong: Aha.
[02:46] <ScottK> slangasek: Would you be willing to put on your archive admin hat and do some backports stuff?
[02:46] <jdong> pwnguin: SRU is highly unlikely, but I'd be happy to coordinate backports :)
[02:47] <pwnguin> jdong: dont quote me on this, but at one point it was looking to be MIR'd
[02:47] <wgrant> Can we please get *-changes to show copies between pockets?
[02:47] <jdong> pwnguin: yeah I understand there was also a major update planned that missed Hardy
[02:48] <jdong> pwnguin: and BTW if it's MIRed it's less likely to get SRU's :D
[02:48] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[02:48] <wgrant> abiword source is in main, binary are in universe.
[02:48] <wgrant> *binary is
[02:48] <wgrant> Or *binaries are.
[02:49] <pwnguin> i dont know what happened, but someone's slowly working on a ppa for 2.6. a few users are angry, but really, abiword doesn't do release engineering that I can see
[02:50] <pwnguin> i dont use it myself; im more interested in the new release of desmume
[02:53] <ScottK> Phere this from Misc development news (#7):
[02:53] <pwnguin> you misspelled ph33r
[02:53]  * wgrant wonders how the CDBSesque debhelper 7 is.
[02:53] <ScottK> debhelper v7 - In this version I've  tried to learn some things from cdbs, and the result is a new "dh"  command which can be used to create debian/rules files that are as short as 3 lines for many packages.
[02:54] <ScottK> Apparently that's a feature goal (being CDBS like).
[02:55] <pwnguin> well, if it means more people can write packages right the first time
[02:55] <wgrant> ScottK: It hopefully won't be as much of a black box, though.
[02:55] <ScottK> Yeah.  Of course hope isn't much of a plan.  We'll see.
[02:57] <pwnguin> he seems to be a smart guy
[02:57] <wgrant> He is.
[03:00] <pwnguin> jdong: so SRU might be on temporary reprieve, what about backports?
[03:02] <pwnguin> desmume released on the 22nd
[03:02] <jdong> pwnguin: ok, who has packages so far?
[03:02] <jdong> who == upstreams
[03:03] <pwnguin> what?
[03:03] <ScottK> Is it in Debian yet?
[03:04] <pwnguin> thank you for translating
[03:04] <pwnguin> looks like no
[03:05] <pwnguin> unfortunately, it's a bit of pita to even get the build deps from ubuntu archives atm
[03:05] <jdong> pwnguin: sorry for the unclear wording
[03:06] <jdong> pwnguin: right now I will consider for hardy-backports packages that are (1) in Debian already (2) in a PPA with an implicit contract that they are to be uploaded to Intrepid
[03:08] <pwnguin> so presumably the ppa would be from someone with upload priv's
[03:09] <ScottK> And (as the core-dev I'm guessing he'll ask to upload it to backports) I'll add that if it's in a PPA, the packaging needs to be derived from Debian's.  Don't fork the package.  I won't upload that.
[03:10] <ScottK> The best thing might be to offer to help the Debian Maintainer get his upload done sooner.
[03:10] <pwnguin> thats what i was thinking
[03:10] <pwnguin> debian games handles it
[03:11] <ScottK> "Hi.  We're from Ubuntu and we're here to help."
[03:11] <pwnguin> heh
[03:14] <Hobbsee> "and wearing our bullet proof vests, just in case you were wondering"
[03:16] <jdong> "May we suggest changing the background of your application to orange and brown..."
[03:16] <ScottK> There's enough people on brainstorm suggesting Kubuntu do that.
[03:17]  * ScottK took a little time today to hunt through brainstorm today.
[03:17] <ScottK> I was honestly looking to get fired up to implement something for Intrepid.
[03:17] <ScottK> The result was, yawn.
[03:17] <pwnguin> make me an onscreen keyboard for gdm
[03:18] <ScottK> I don't run Gnome.  Odd of me being interested in developing for it are pretty low.
[03:18] <pwnguin> kubuntu uses kdm?
[03:18]  * ScottK decides to catch up on BOFH.
[03:18] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:18] <Drezard> hey?
[06:31] <LaserJock> quiet evening
[06:57] <LaserJock> man, how can a calculator be so sucky?
[06:57] <LaserJock> how hard can it be, honestly
[06:59] <LaserJock> 2,,560.06 != 2,560.06
[07:22] <Arelis> Can i post broken packages here?
[08:00] <LaserJock> dang, earthquakes
[08:00] <wgrant> LaserJock: How significant?
[08:05] <LaserJock> 5.0 just now
[08:05] <LaserJock> really shook things
[08:06] <LaserJock> we've had something like 400 of > 1.0 in the last 2 months
[08:06] <LaserJock> but in the last week it's been 1 or 2 you could feel ever day or so
[08:06] <LaserJock> it's creeping me out
[08:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: omg
[08:11] <geser> good morning
[08:19] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, not cool
[08:19] <LaserJock> highvoltage: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/39.41.-121.-119_eqs.php
[08:20] <LaserJock> that's all about 5 miles from me
[08:32] <LaserJock> darn, there's another one
[08:47] <LaserJock> woah, a water flume broke in the earthquake
[08:47] <LaserJock> looks like a waterfall on the TV
[08:48] <wgrant> Fun.
[08:49] <LaserJock> alright, well I'm gonna try to get some sleep
[08:49] <LaserJock> my stomach doesn't like the shaking though
[08:50] <laga> :/
[10:30] <Iulian> G'morning
[10:32] <jpatrick> morning Iulian
[10:44] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi there, if I have patched a source package (say rhythmbox) how can I know if it uses dpatch? Or am I wrong and dpatch does not require specific support from a package?
[10:48] <Le-Chuck_ITA> forget it
[10:54] <CrippledCanary> what should the target be for a hardy SRU hardy-proposed or just hardy
[11:11] <Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all again, a quick question: how would you version a ppa package so that newer ubuntu versions DON'T supercede the PPA but it's still clear on which ubuntu version the ppa package is based?
[11:12] <Le-Chuck_ITA> something like 0.11.5-0ubuntu7~myppa will be superceded 0.11.5-0ubuntu8
[11:20] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ping :)
[12:33] <emgent> heya
[12:43] <Iulian> Hi emgent
[13:56] <tuxmaniac> is there any way to share my packages for the current release?
[13:57] <tuxmaniac> LP PPA allows uploads to only development release and not current release
[14:29] <Amaranth> tuxmaniac: err, since when?
[14:29] <Amaranth> tuxmaniac: I was building feisty packages during gutsy development (backports)
[14:32] <tuxmaniac> Amaranth: I got this automated email. Part of which is pasted here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64515/
[14:41] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:00] <ScottK> tuxmaniac: I'm going to guess you tried to upload to Ubuntu and not to your PPA.  That's the message you get when you do that.
[15:14] <fargiolas> hey, i'm the author of gnome-mastermind, I've just solved an issue that happened with recent cairo versions (so with hardy) and made the game look really ugly. Is there a way to push this release into hardy without wait for ubuntu next release?
[15:33] <fargiolas> nobody in? :(
[15:34] <laga> fargiolas: you need to do a stable release update. let me get you the link
[15:35] <laga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[15:38] <fargiolas> laga: do i need to first submit a bug report about the problem I've fixed and mark it as fixed?
[15:40] <laga> fargiolas: no, i think you need to open a bug and leave it open. it'll be marked as fixed when it's uploaded AFAIK
[15:41] <laga> but i'm not very experiencied with SRUs :/
[15:49] <ScottK> fargiolas: File the bug, attach your patch, and then subscribe the motu-sru team.  One of them will let you know if they think it is appropriate for an SRU.
[15:50] <tuxmaniac> ScottK: heh. true. thanks for the info. got accepted now
[15:51] <tuxmaniac> :-)
[15:52] <fargiolas> ScottK: thanks, does it matter if instead of the patch i attach a link to new release?
[15:52] <ScottK> fargiolas: It needs to be a minimal patch to fix the problem, so yes.  We sometime do micro-release updates, but it's very rare.
[15:53] <fargiolas> I'll attach both svn diff and link to release
[16:23] <fargiolas> ScottK: submitted, #222580
[16:26]  * fargiolas hopes everything is ok
[16:28] <fargiolas> sru wiki page talks about preparing an updated package but I doubt it should be me to do this.. I'm not a ubuntu developer I don't even know where to start
[16:28] <ScottK> fargiolas: The report looks appropriate.  Up to motu-sru to decide if they think it's worth a stable update.
[16:29] <ScottK> fargiolas: If motu-sru approves it, then I think someone can probably be found to package the fix.
[16:29] <fargiolas> ScottK: good, so it's a minor fix but since it is a game, having ugly graphical glitches is bad! let's hope sru team will agree :)
[16:30] <fargiolas> ScottK: thanks for your hints
[16:30] <ScottK> You're welcome.  I hope it works out.
[17:06] <CrippledCanary> I have found a bug (and filed it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smstools/+bug/221973)
[17:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New]
[17:06] <CrippledCanary> I also made a debdiff and what should I do next to get it in to a SRU
[17:07] <ScottK> subsribe motu-sru to the bug.
[17:07] <ScottK> subscribe even
[17:08] <CrippledCanary> even... even who?
[17:08] <ScottK> subscribe motu-sru to the bug.
[17:08] <CrippledCanary> just did that
[17:08] <ScottK> I just misspelled it the first time.
[17:09] <ScottK> Then you wait for them to approve it.
[17:09] <CrippledCanary> Ok...
[17:10] <CrippledCanary> I know that it probably is a bit hectic these days but how long does it usually take before someone does anything with it?
[19:54] <RainCT> hey
[19:55] <highvoltage> hey RainCT
[19:55] <RainCT> I warn you, if you ever run a packaging jam, DO NOT show the espeak! lol
[19:55] <highvoltage> heh. espeak ftw
[19:56] <LaserJock> hi highvoltage and RainCT
[19:56] <highvoltage> howdy LaserJock
[19:58] <RainCT> pers 1: "did you know that 'archive' is pronounced 'arkive'?"; pers 2: "what? really?"; pers 1: "yeh"; pers 2: "really??"; me: "Ubuntu comes with a text-to-speech installed by default. try 'espeak archive'". for the next 20 minutes you were hearing espeak's voice from everywhere xDDD
[19:58] <RainCT> Hi LaserJock
[19:58] <LaserJock> highvoltage: we had two more little earthquakes last night
[19:58] <LaserJock> 3.somethings
[20:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: that must be nerve-wrecking. how are you guys doing there?
[20:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: any damages so far?
[20:00] <LaserJock> highvoltage: not here, just rattled dishes and things
[20:01] <LaserJock> at the epicenter (like 5 or so miles away) it broke some windows and some cracks in walls apparently
[20:02] <slangasek> huh. where is "5 miles away" in your case?
[20:05] <LaserJock> slangasek: well, http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Maps/120-39.htm
[20:05] <highvoltage> reno, isn't it?
[20:05] <LaserJock> west Reno is where they're hitting
[20:06] <slangasek> ah
[20:06] <LaserJock> the 4.7 last night was a pretty good shake
[20:06] <LaserJock> I think that's the largest I've been in
[20:07] <LaserJock> but the really concerning part is just how many we've been having
[20:08] <LaserJock> it seems like we're having a big increase in severity and frequency
[20:13] <LaserJock> is intrepid open yet?
[20:13] <LaserJock> seems like Hardy was open like the day after Gutsy was out the door
[20:15] <smarter> LaserJock: IIRC, it was two weeks after gutsy release
[20:15] <smarter> but keep an eye on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
[20:23] <smarter> If I want to maintain a package I made in universe, can I just create a branch in code.lp.net/~myusername and link to it in a Vcs-Bzr field?
[20:24] <smarter> or should I create a lp.net/<application> for every app?
[20:26] <LaserJock> these are existing apps?
[20:26] <smarter> yes
[20:26] <LaserJock> well, either/one/ or none would work :-)
[20:27] <LaserJock> it's often good to register the project on LP
[20:28] <smarter> even if I'm not the project leader at all?
[20:29] <LaserJock> sure
[20:29] <LaserJock> anybody can register a project
[20:30] <smarter> ok
[20:31] <LaserJock> smarter: but it's not required by any means
[20:31] <LaserJock> you don't even have to put your bzr branch anywhere or use bzr
[20:31] <smarter> yes, but I like bzr :)
[20:31] <smarter> and it's the recommended way to make your bzr branch public?
[20:32] <LaserJock> I don't think there's a recommended yet
[20:32] <LaserJock> but it wouldn't hurt, that's for sure
[20:33] <smarter> okay, thanks for your help
[20:46] <jdong> *urgh* I should change that
[20:46] <jdong> you can tell I haven't started up xchat in YEARS
[20:48] <Iulian> Haha
[20:48]  * Iulian wonders why he put that quit message.
[20:49] <laga> heh
[20:50] <highvoltage> jdong: what do you usually use? the irc client of the future?
[20:50] <jdong> irssi :)
[20:50] <highvoltage> yes, that's it
[20:50] <jdong> started xchat to remind myself of the interface of chanserv.py
[20:51] <jdong> I'm aiming to clone it in perl this weekend
[20:51] <highvoltage> what does it do?
[20:51] <highvoltage> oh, of course, d'oh!
[20:51] <highvoltage> sorry, had a long day :)
[20:51] <jussio1> heya all
[20:52]  * jussio1 slips quassel into jdong's pc
[20:52]  * Iulian is forced to use 'running on CYGWIN_NT-6.0 i686'
[20:52] <Iulian> Just for a couple of days...
[20:53] <highvoltage> Iulian: http://www.irssi.org/
[20:53] <highvoltage> you get irssi for windows too :)
[20:53] <jdong> Iulian: why not use SUA if you're running NT6?
[20:56] <Iulian> highvoltage: That's what I'm using right now.
[20:57] <Iulian> jdong: SUA?
[20:58] <jdong> Iulian: Services for Unix Applications
[20:58] <Iulian> Aww
[20:58] <jdong> Iulian: it's a POSIX layer directly in the kernel
[20:58] <jdong> gonna run quite a bit faster than Cygwin
[20:58] <jdong> I've heard pkgsrc works with it too
[20:59]  * Iulian has to do some testing with it.
[21:09]  * Iulian *yawns*
[21:29] <CyberMatt> question what does dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory mean
[21:29] <CyberMatt> more specifically what did i do wrong
[21:51] <CyberMatt> nevermind got it sorted
[22:43] <guja_nebeska> Hello.
[22:43] <guja_nebeska> I'd like to start with Ubuntu development. Start learning basics, and when I became experienced, than do more serious stuffs.
[22:43] <guja_nebeska> Suggestions? Thank you.
[22:44] <iulian> guja_nebeska: See topic.
[22:45] <guja_nebeska> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ?
[22:45] <iulian> Exactly
[22:45] <guja_nebeska> Any suggestions from you?
[22:45] <guja_nebeska> I am totaly begginer, but willing to learn.
[22:46] <LaserJock> guja_nebeska: what kinds of things would you like to do?
[22:47] <LaserJock> right now we're kinda at a slow time, finished up Hardy and waiting for Intrepid to get going, but there's a lot of bug work that needs to be done
[22:47] <guja_nebeska> LaserJock, well, basicly I am interested in helping Ubuntu community in any kind possible. Having in mind that I am begginer familiar with assembly and C language.
[22:47] <guja_nebeska> So, what begginer can learn and start working at that point.
[22:48] <guja_nebeska> If that's bug solving, than bug solving.
[22:48] <guja_nebeska> I need to learn first a lot.
[22:48] <guja_nebeska> But I am willing to do that.
[22:48] <guja_nebeska> I have time and will.
[22:49] <laga> that's great :) are you interesting in something special? lots of open source development happens because someone has a problem/need and fixes that
[22:50] <guja_nebeska> Well, I am interested in hardest thing that exists. But that's job of seriously pro programmers, I suppose. :o)
[22:50] <LaserJock> do you have a particular area of software you're interested in?
[22:50] <LaserJock> we have something like 30-40k open bugs right now
[22:50] <LaserJock> I'm sure they'd keep you busy ;-)
[22:51] <guja_nebeska> Let's say I am interested in p2p programes, internet programmes at all.
[22:51] <guja_nebeska> But as I said, I need to learn first about bugs, ways to solve them, etc.
[22:51] <megabyte405> go find an OSS one you use, and contribute to it by fixing a bug and sending the patch to their mailing list
[22:51] <LaserJock> well, we do have a P2P team I believe
[22:52] <megabyte405> as in, jump right into the action, using google frequently
[22:52] <sebner> LaserJock: true
[22:52] <megabyte405> most development takes place upstream
[22:53] <guja_nebeska> Okay. I will now go to follow the registration instructions.
[22:53] <guja_nebeska> If I have some questions, I'll ask here.
[22:54] <LaserJock> guja_nebeska: you might be interested in https://launchpad.net/~motu-p2p
[22:54] <LaserJock> specifically https://bugs.launchpad.net/~motu-p2p/+packagebugs
[22:54] <LaserJock> that might give you a launching point :-)
[22:55] <guja_nebeska> LaserJock, thank you, i'll check those links right now.
[23:00] <guja_nebeska> What do I need to know when fixing any bug?
[23:01] <guja_nebeska> Do I need to know any specific programing language?
[23:01] <LaserJock> not particularly
[23:01] <LaserJock> if it's a packaging bug you just need to know packaging
[23:02] <LaserJock> if it's a code bug it's good to have some programming knowledge so you can have a look at the actual bug
[23:02] <guja_nebeska> Sorry now for lame questions, but need to hear that in simple language. :o)
[23:02] <LaserJock> often times we're moving things between upstream (Debian or the software authors) and pulling back down fixes, etc.
[23:02] <megabyte405> guja_nebeska: it depends ont he project you pick.  For instance, AbiWord is written in C++, so if you've worked with a c-like language and object-oriented programming you can handle mostof the bugs eventually :)
[23:03] <LaserJock> well, what we do is take software from Debian or from the app's authors
[23:03] <guja_nebeska> For example: Someone has problems with dunno, pidgin.
[23:03] <LaserJock> and then we add in all the packaging "bits"
[23:03] <guja_nebeska> And it sends some bug report.
[23:03] <guja_nebeska> In bug report it says:
[23:03] <megabyte405> guja_nebeska: then you go fix it with Pidgin, and file a bug with the distributions to request that they update their version
[23:04] <guja_nebeska> That's my next question, how do I know where's the problem? Do I need to know exactly what's wrong with that part of Pidgin code and whats in conflict with Ubuntu architecture, or what?
[23:04] <guja_nebeska> I mean, I can't just start fixing bug if I don't know a thing.
[23:05] <LaserJock> so you need to do some testing perhaps, to verify the bug
[23:05] <LaserJock> then you can forward the bug upstream
[23:05] <LaserJock> or if you can fix it we can upload a fix and send it upstream
[23:06] <megabyte405> guja_nebeska: the bug could be in two places - it could be an ubuntu-only thing, or it could be a problem with the upstream code (pidgin) and depending on the problem, either could be likely
[23:07] <megabyte405> guja_nebeska: so if you're starting from the Ubuntu point of view, a launchpad bug, you first want to test it in another distribution, or with a manually compiled version (as opposed to the ubuntu package)
[23:07] <megabyte405> if you find it's upstream, then you find/file a bug upstream, and if you feel like it, go debug it and fix it
[23:07] <megabyte405> if you find it's ubuntu, then you try to figure out what might be causing the problem
[23:07] <RainCT> good night
[23:08] <guja_nebeska> megabyte405, and to do that, I need to be perfectly good knower of Ubuntu?
[23:08] <megabyte405> in either case, the final product is a patch sent to the appropriate folks, as high up as possible (that is, if it happens on Fedora as well as Ubuntu, get that patch to Pidgin and just mention it to ubuntu)
[23:09] <megabyte405> guja_nebeska: no, of course not - there is no complete expert.  You learn as you go, and such learning is easier when it's interesting to you, which is why I suggested finding an upstream project that you personally use - something interesting
[23:09] <megabyte405> you can't have the whole distribution in your mind at once to fix a bug - most bugs are a lot more narrow than that (the package, the upstream source, or dependent packages)
[23:09] <LaserJock> guja_nebeska: you just do what you can
[23:09] <guja_nebeska> Well, I am using Hardy on 64bit Intel based Macbook.
[23:10] <LaserJock> guja_nebeska: if you can't fix/figure out a bug just leave it alone
[23:10] <guja_nebeska> I am going to meet with lots of problems.
[23:10] <megabyte405> wouldn't imagine why
[23:10] <guja_nebeska> I solved yesterday iSight camera problem.
[23:10] <LaserJock> lots?
[23:10] <guja_nebeska> Well, no lots, but when you are begginer, it can be hard a bit. :o)
[23:11] <guja_nebeska> From dunno which reason, iSight was making problems on 64-bit intel.
[23:11] <guja_nebeska> And it took me few days to figure out why.
[23:11] <megabyte405> did you file a bug with your issue and how you solved it?
[23:12] <jdong> megabyte405: I believe he refers to bug 185634
[23:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185634 in ubuntu-meta "uvcvideo: iSight firmware loading does not work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185634
[23:12] <megabyte405> ah, well then :)
[23:12] <guja_nebeska> Well, uvcvideo module was making some problem when I upgrade it from Gutsy to Hardy.
[23:12] <guja_nebeska> And, you see, I didn't read that page.
[23:12] <jdong> the way uvcvideo handles firmware loading changed from gutsy to hardy
[23:12] <jdong> but the userland tools to finish the job didn't get into hardy
[23:13] <jdong> *grumble*
[23:13] <megabyte405> jdong: nice job on the quick bug pull - you remind me of a individual we have in AbiWord who I swear can search bugzilla mentally faster than I can using a browser and keyboard shortcuts :D
[23:13] <megabyte405> ah, bugger - regressions suck
[23:13] <jdong> megabyte405: yeah, they do. I'm all for taking as much hackery as possible out of the kernel, but it sucks macbook users now have to resort to 3rd party packages to get their camera working
[23:14] <jdong> I think the best fix at this point is the fast track (grin) the isight-firmware-tools package to Intrepid and backport it
[23:14] <megabyte405> jdong: yeah that's a real bugger, esp. since this is a darn nice webcam - one of the best I've personally used (which means it's better than the cheapy ones I bought or inherited)
[23:14] <jdong> agreed
[23:16] <LaserJock> jdong: perhaps an SRU? :-)
[23:16] <jdong> LaserJock: haha "hey pitti, look away, we're about to add a hal firmware hook...."
[23:17] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure we've done worse before but it's probably not good to get into the habit ;-)
[23:18] <jdong> LaserJock: at least not until we have official blessed policies regarding such matters
[23:18] <jdong> LaserJock: i.e. looking at the ktorrent-kde4 3.0.1->3.0.2, I'd personally rather just import the new version
[23:18] <jdong> though that won't fly well with our current policy
[23:19] <LaserJock> depends on the definition of "minimal"
[23:19] <LaserJock> i.e. "minimal change that makes it trivial to fix the bug" for instance ;-)
[23:20] <jdong> LaserJock: minimal inconvenience to the developer ;-)
[23:20] <LaserJock> exactly
[23:20] <jdong> LaserJock: the current verification procedures also makes it extremely difficult to fix rare crasher bugs
[23:20] <jdong> i.e. stuff that doesn't have an explicit test case
[23:21] <jdong> "Start a torrent.... wait 2 to 80 hours....."
[23:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:22] <LaserJock> I tend to think upstream testing of a particular upstream release should also be taken into account
[23:22] <LaserJock> since often times they get more real testing done than we will
[23:22] <jdong> LaserJock: indeed. And often times us doing a skim-through-svn-changesets backport means deriving a worse version than newest upstream too
[23:23] <LaserJock> precisely
[23:25] <LaserJock> however, I still need to figure out how to deal with the tendency to have "well, if you get the *latest* release you'll have even more bugs fixed" tendency
[23:25] <LaserJock> s/tendency//
[23:25] <jdong> LaserJock: well sometimes IMO following latest upstream versions is a distribution's best policy.
[23:26] <jdong> LaserJock: of course there's clearly things that doesn't apply to (server stack, volatile ABI/API...)
[23:26] <LaserJock> sure
[23:26] <jdong> but the Fedora update policy is pretty inspiring IMO
[23:26] <jdong> and we already have Backports which is somewhat chartered with the ability to implement Fedora's update policy
[23:27] <jdong> I think we should try Backports as a test base for universe new-point-release style updates
[23:27] <jdong> of course excluding things that would cause rev-dep ripples
[23:27] <jdong> the way we do SRUs on main isn't scaling all that well to universe
[23:27] <jdong> it seems like the average sentiment here is that we'd rather not fix a bug than go through the SRU procedure
[23:28] <jdong> and if it's between THAT an introducing new upstream versions, IMO the latter might indeed be better
[23:28] <laga> jdong: yeah. SRU has strict requirements.
[23:28] <laga> and is a lot of paperwork (IMHO)
[23:28] <LaserJock> I don't think the paperwork is all that much of a problem right now
[23:28] <LaserJock> but some other aspects could be
[23:29] <laga> LaserJock: well, getting a debdiff etc is annoying for me when I have a motu handy which can sponsor from a  bzr checkout directly. but that's a special case.
[23:29] <LaserJock> well, a debdiff should be trivial
[23:30] <jdong> the more I think about it, the more I think ScottK's idea with just allowing all MOTUs to upload to -proposed isn't a bad idea
[23:30] <jdong> maybe we can then put a REVU-style ACK/NACK mechanism on top of that
[23:30] <laga> LaserJock: it's an additional step. granted, i'm lazy.
[23:30] <LaserJock> laga: why is it additional?
[23:30] <jdong> laga: well QA'ing updates is important, and IMO (1) attaching a debdiff (2) getting 3 ACKs on the proposed build, are the two ESSENTIAL steps
[23:31] <LaserJock> jdong: yeah, it seems to me that testing is the most important aspect
[23:32] <laga> jdong: i'll agree with (2), and (1) is very convenient for anyone who reviews the ticket. i'll take back anything i've said about debdiffs then ;)
[23:32] <LaserJock> I do a debdiff on virtually every upload I do
[23:32] <LaserJock> just for me to check
[23:32] <jdong> LaserJock: me too. If nothing else, for a final sanity check
[23:32] <LaserJock> so uploading that to a bug is trivial
[23:32] <jdong> and I've definitely caught mistakes from doing so
[23:32] <laga> LaserJock: i usually use bzr diff, because everything i do is in bzr
[23:33] <LaserJock> laga: but that isn't the same as a debdiff
[23:33] <jdong> laga: well supplying a bzr diff would suffice too
[23:33] <LaserJock> although it's better than nothing for sure
[23:33] <jdong> laga: we're humans reviewing these things ;-)
[23:33] <jdong> we can cope
[23:33] <jdong> I just want to see the kinds of changes going in to make sure they are sane
[23:33] <jdong> and also scan for obvious versioning or distro-targeting bugs
[23:33] <laga> a debdiff will catch additional things, though. like additional files someone forgot to bzr add
[23:34] <LaserJock> and stuff done in the clean rule :-)
[23:34] <LaserJock> it amazing how much crap ends up in .diff.gz files from clean rules :-)
[23:34] <jdong> indeed
[23:35] <LaserJock> I was just looking at a SRU where the debdiff is 496KB
[23:35] <jdong> lol
[23:35] <LaserJock> and I think all but 4KB of that is autotools junk
[23:35] <LaserJock> although it's a new upstream release
[23:36] <LaserJock> so there's some little not-exactly-minimal bits
[23:36] <jdong> LaserJock: I'm tempted to let most of that slide for universe
[23:36] <LaserJock> but still, I'm pretty sure it's all automake 1.9 -> 1.10 stuff
[23:37] <LaserJock> jdong: then have a look at bug #222580
[23:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 222580 in gnome-mastermind "GNOME Mastermind grid is shifted to the right with new cairo releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222580
[23:37] <LaserJock> ;-)
[23:38] <LaserJock> I wonder if people are somewhat wary of doing SRUs because it's more of a long-term commitment
[23:38] <jdong> LaserJock: his diff definitely looks good
[23:39] <LaserJock> like rather than just sponsoring an upload you've got probably something like a week of going through the process
[23:39] <jdong> LaserJock: well my personal opinion on why people don't do SRUs is because as soon as we release one release our culture says it's "frozen" so let's go work on something new and shiny
[23:40] <jdong> I don't know how to "fix" that. I don't want to suggest yet-another-new-MOTU-team.... :D
[23:40] <LaserJock> I wish we had something like a developer survey where we could ask such things
[23:40] <jdong> but if giving hopefuls a cookie and badge makes them fix stable bugs for us...
[23:40] <jdong> :)
[23:40] <LaserJock> maybe SRUs are perceived to be harder than they are?
[23:40] <jdong> LaserJock: that's possible too
[23:41] <LaserJock> or people have been burned in the past with a different policy?
[23:41] <jdong> LaserJock: there isn't a 5-page wiki page and 1-page writeup to do for standard universe uploads
[23:41] <jdong> and some of the previous SRU policies have been... retentive.
[23:42]  * jdong walks down to central campus to get find a table and food
[23:42] <LaserJock> I'm also wondering about the backporting of fixes
[23:42] <LaserJock> we often just sync/merge, etc.
[23:42] <LaserJock> much MOTU activity isn't about doing code backports
[23:42] <LaserJock> that may make people hesitate
[23:43] <LaserJock> packaging bug SRUs should be easy though I'd think
[23:52] <crimsun> backporting fixes may not be entirely trivial
[23:52] <maix> hi
[23:52] <LaserJock> crimsun: exactly
[23:53] <LaserJock> maix: hello
[23:53] <crimsun> if they're not doing it because it's not trivial, however, that's bad.  They can always ask for assistance.
[23:54] <maix> i have a package, which i downloaded from launchpad (version 6-1) and then patched it. but the question is: what version do i have to give to it in order that i always get an update if they or debian or ubuntu releases a new version
[23:54] <maix> i thought: if they patch it the new version will be 6.1, if debian does it will be 6-2, if ubuntu does it will be 6-1ubuntu1; is that right?
[23:55] <LaserJock> right
[23:55] <maix> so i should name it 6-1ubuntu0patched1
[23:55] <maix> would that work?
[23:55] <LaserJock> well, there might be some other versions if it has a security fix or something like that
[23:55] <maix> eg?
[23:55] <LaserJock> if it had a security fix I think it'd be 6-1ubuntu0.1
[23:55] <nxvl> ubuntu0patched1?
[23:56] <nxvl> maix: no, it would be 6-1ubuntu1
[23:56] <LaserJock> maix: it may seem weird but but 6.-1ubuntu0.0patched1 might work well
[23:56] <maix> nxvl, i don't want to upload it to universe, it's just locally
[23:56] <nxvl> oh ok
[23:56] <crimsun> use '+'
[23:56] <LaserJock> 6-1 not 6.-1 there
[23:57] <nxvl> or ~
[23:57] <LaserJock> yeah, that's better
[23:57] <nxvl> 6-1ubuntu1~local`
[23:57] <nxvl> 6-1ubuntu1~local1
[23:57] <LaserJock> 6-1ubuntu0~patched1
[23:57] <nxvl> or ~patched1
[23:57] <maix> i've some time ago read in a manpage or a wiki or some similar stuff the rules how dpkg or apt or so determines which version is newer; but i cannot find it anymore. someone an idea?
[23:57] <LaserJock> I think you'd still maybe want ubuntu0 there
[23:58] <nxvl> LaserJock: actually it shoud be ubuntu1 intead of ubuntu1
[23:58] <crimsun> really, updates _should_ be 6-1ubuntu0.foo
[23:58] <nxvl> LaserJock: ubuntu1 > ubuntu1~patched1
[23:58] <LaserJock> nxvl: yes, I know
[23:59] <LaserJock> but ubuntu1~patched1 > ubuntu0 right?
[23:59] <LaserJock> so you'd want ubuntu0~patched1
[23:59] <crimsun> ubuntu1~patched1 sorts before ubuntu0.1, which is incorrect.
 if it had a security fix I think it'd be 6-1ubuntu0.1 -> but 6-1ubuntu0patched1 would be lower than that, wouldn't it?


[09:05] <synergetic> Any particular reason why the style guide is in the topic for this channel, but isn't somewhere under "Resources For Authors and Editors" on the ubuntu-manual.org website?


[19:00] <jalcine> Is HUD accessible over D-Bus? I'm working on a speech app that'd forward text as if it were typed into HUD
[19:05] <mhall119> gord: ^^
[19:05] <mhall119> tedg might know too, if you want to ask him when he's in tomorrow
[19:19] <jalcine> mhall119: thanks :)
[19:19] <jalcine> I might just pull in the code and just grep any references to d-bus and see where that takes me.
[21:26] <AlanBell> jalcine: seen hud-cli and hud-dump-application and hud-list-applications and hud-verify-app-info?
[21:27] <AlanBell> plus yes, the menus are very dbus exposed
[21:27] <jalcine> I saw hud-cli, but not the others.
[21:27] <AlanBell> I don't know what they all do exactly
[21:27] <jalcine> And if d-bus is available, I'd stick to that.
[21:27] <AlanBell> so what are you doing with it?
[21:27] <jalcine> One less dependency to code in.
[21:28] <AlanBell> I was thinking of using dbus to get the menu structure then mangling it into a jsgf grammar file to feed to pocket-sphynx
[21:29] <jalcine> Well, we've gotten mediocre speech recognition going and right now, we're packaging the latest version of CMU's tools for acoustic model training.
[21:29] <jalcine> Because the version in the repository aren't as proficient as the ones available.
[21:29] <AlanBell> com.canonical.hud is the dbus thing
[21:29] <jalcine> Yeah, SC's like powered on PocketSphinx, its it's battery.
[21:30] <AlanBell> the dbus hooks for HUD are about submitting queries to it, should be controllable that way
[21:31] <jalcine> That should be it, then.
[21:31] <jalcine> I'd begin hacking up another plug-in.
[21:31] <AlanBell> yeah, but it doesn't expose the full list of options through that
[21:32] <AlanBell> you would need to poke at com.canonical.AppMenu.Registrar and call GetMenus() there, then go through the menus picking up entries, just like the HUD does
[21:32] <jalcine> Well, all I really need to be able to provide input.
[21:32] <jalcine> *able to do
[21:33] <AlanBell> well how are you restricting the grammar?
[21:33] <jalcine> We aren't. We're working on building speaker-independent models. HUD's a feature I'd like to connect with it.
[21:34] <AlanBell> oh, well should be pretty easy then, but recognition accuracy won't be so hot
[21:35] <AlanBell> if you can parse the menu structures and create a jsgf grammar file then pocketsphynx will only listen for useful words and will be more accurate in theory
[21:36] <jalcine> It would, but we'd have to get the user to adapt that content into a specific model.
[21:38] <jalcine> I proposed a delicately difficult idea: http://thesii.org/wiki/SpeechControl/Ideologies/AutomaticAcousticModelImprovement
[21:38] <nava> Hi ,what do you think about this feature for unity ? http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29302/
[21:38] <jalcine> But I figure with HUD + SpeechControl, AAMI (above) would gradually improve in use.