[06:26] <Tm_T> old news: http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Wiki/Press_release-Ubuntu_CDs_for_Finnish_parliament_representatives
[10:28] <Hobbsee> manchicken: adepts changelogs...how does it implement them?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> manchicken: please see my comments on bug 136381
[10:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136381 in adept "Adept doesn't show changelogs." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136381
[11:58] <mhb> good morning starshine
[12:12] <aantipop> any idea why ccsm on gutsy has no icons ?
[12:22] <mhb> aantipop: isn't that a Gtk app?
[12:26] <aantipop> umm
[12:27] <aantipop> yes depends on python-gtk2
[12:31] <aantipop> but the hole compiz-fusion thing is made for kde too, there is libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig and and compiz-kde metapackage
[12:31] <aantipop> so there should be items for the settings-manager :/
[12:42] <blekos> hi, has anybody managed to compile gnucash 2.2
[12:45] <gnomefreak> blekos: why ar eyou asking that in a kubuntu devel channel? isnt that a gnome app?
[12:46] <blekos> i'm using kubuntu gutsy, so I thought for a correct compilation for my system I should ask smn with relevant sys
[12:50] <gnomefreak> blekos: i believe it only needs gtk libs so it wont matter about kubuntu you would have to install the needed libs to build it
[01:44] <Riddell> hola
[01:48] <\sh_away> hey Riddell
[01:48] <Riddell> did I miss anything?
[01:50] <apokryphos> hi Riddell. Just a note that about after 2 weeks (or whatever), I got that guy to send me the kickoff source that he has (link: http://francis.giannaros.org/files/kicker-kickoff-kubuntu.tar.gz ). No idea if that's useful 8)
[01:52] <mhb> Riddell: hey!
[01:53] <mhb> Riddell: you missed me locating the evil konsole kpart bug
[01:53] <mhb> Riddell: I hope you enjoyed the vacation
[02:01] <Riddell> mhb: you did??
[02:01] <Riddell> how?
[02:02] <mhb> Riddell: well, recompiling the old konsole actually made it work
[02:02] <mhb> Riddell: so I diffed file after file and tried
[02:07] <Riddell> old konsole?  like KDE 3.5.5?
[02:08] <mhb> Riddell: yes.
[02:10] <Riddell> mm, I tried that, didn't make any difference
[02:10] <Riddell> mhb: so where did you find the problem?
[02:11] <mhb> Riddell: just uploaded the patch (actually a diff of two files between 3.5.5 and 3.5.7) to bug 117731
[02:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117731 in python-kde3 "Python crashes after attaching pty to a konsole kpart" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117731
[02:12] <mhb> there's a QPtrVector code which has changed, so I guess the error is in there
[02:14] <mhb> Riddell: I built a 3.5.7 package with this patch applied, and both me and ScottK tested it with positive results
[02:14] <LongPointyStick> Riddell!
[02:22] <mhb> Riddell: also, http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/7599.html might be a good read when you have some spare time (KDE devs blog about Kubuntu quite often, though)
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: That's a seriously useful hint.
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: I would have never gotten that.
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: I think it's also happening for restricted packages.
[02:25] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: restricted modules seems to have the same thing happening.
[02:25] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: Do they have source packages to rely on?
[02:26] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm running a Software Freedom Day no-charge community computer workshop today.
[02:26] <manchicken> Riddell: It should be interesting to see if I can get the local kubuntuers and KDErs to come out and join me.  That'd be nice to be able to find a team I could sprint with.
[02:31] <manchicken> allee: So how're things going?  Sorry to have had to run so quickly yesterday.
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: np. me too.  And again.  in 15 min is IRC deadline
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: so things are busy are you may have guesssed
[02:32] <manchicken> heh
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: right now I'm fighting my way through launchpad project and team (fai)
[02:32] <manchicken> I know the feeling.      That's for sure.
[02:34] <Hobbsee> manchicken: did you see what i said above, btw?
[02:34] <allee> \sh: siretart has created a fai team in lauchpad
[02:34] <\sh> allee, ahhh
[02:34] <manchicken> allee: My neighbors are probably thinking "what the hell is wrong with this guy?  He moves in and two weeks later he's already burning the place down!"
[02:34] <allee> \sh: never really used bazaar before
[02:34] <\sh> allee, easy ;)
[02:34] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Yes.  Do restricted packages have source packages?
[02:35] <allee> \sh: yeah, what is were in lauchpad is the tuffer part
[02:35] <\sh> allee, I wonder if siretart had a talk to thomas...
[02:35] <manchicken> Hobbsee: The way it currently implements the changelogs is it takes the package and tries to construct a URL based on the current package.
[02:35] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I could have a more complete answer later if you'd like one.
[02:35] <allee> \sh Thomas was on IRC when we talked about it yesterday.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> manchicken: l-r-m has a source, yes
[02:36] <\sh> allee, ah on oftc?
[02:36] <manchicken> Hobbsee: What about vmware?
[02:36] <Hobbsee> manchicken: right, but you need to check where the current packages *source* resides.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> not the binary
[02:36] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I need a consistent pattern that I can work off of.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> which is what i expect you do now
[02:36] <allee> \sh: I hope merging stuff pack to fai svn or debian bts will prove uncomplicated.  I don't want to give he impression we fork
[02:36] <Hobbsee> indeed.  so use the component where the source is located, not the binary.  changelogs.u.c goes via sources
[02:37] <manchicken> Well, I don't necessarily work off of the binary.  If you go to a source package I'll go off of the source package.  I just go for the current package.
[02:37] <\sh> allee, that's the worst way what we can do...a fork of something which works really nicely regardin ubuntu and debian
[02:37] <manchicken> allee: Nice.
[02:37] <allee> manchicken: yeah, would be too much fire for a BBB ;)
[02:37] <manchicken> allee: I think I'm too crazy for Europe.  Only in America do they let crazies like me run free.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: do you see what i'm saying?
[02:38] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Yeah.
[02:38] <\sh> manchicken, or send to them to Cuba ,-)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ahh.  well there's the problem
[02:38] <allee> lol
[02:38] <Hobbsee> if they're going via a binary, you need to find teh corresponding source package, and then grab the changelog from that
[02:38] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I'm just worried that it's going to be klugy and hackish to implement because it would be based on an inconsistent pattern.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i cant see how that's inconsistant, though
[02:39] <\sh> manchicken, in Europe you can do this: http://www.sourcecode.de/node/914
[02:39] <manchicken> Hobbsee: is there a "kate-src" package?
[02:39] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Because there is a "kate" package.
[02:39] <allee> BBB bbl (hopefully).  Bye
[02:39] <\sh> have fun allee
[02:40] <manchicken> It points to another one, but the string that is being used is still "kate"
[02:40] <manchicken> What does "BBB" mean?  I'm not familiar with that acronym.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> manchicken: whatever apt-cache showsrc kate gives you
[02:40] <\sh> manchicken, what are you trying?
[02:41] <\sh> manchicken, barbecue
[02:42] <manchicken> \sh: Ah.  Do you know the direct expansion?  I'm curious now :)
[02:42] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Hmm... I only hope libapt makes it that convenient to get to.
[02:42] <manchicken> If it does than this fix may be mindnumbingly simple.
[02:42] <\sh> manchicken, the normal abbrev should be BBC
[02:43] <\sh> manchicken, sorry...BBQ
[02:43] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i have no idea, but aptitude changelog also has the same bug.
[02:43] <manchicken> \sh: Very true.  Barbecue has a shockingly scarce need for the letter "Q"
[02:43] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i know none of libapt at all, sorry.
[02:43] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well right now I'll focus on adept, and I'll see about aptitude later but make no promises. :)
[02:43] <\sh> Hobbsee, what is the problem?
[02:44] <manchicken> Riddell: Do you know if your adept repository is up to date?
[02:44] <Hobbsee> manchicken: cool
[02:44] <Hobbsee> \sh: the changelog function in adept
[02:45] <\sh> Hobbsee, and it fetches somehow wrong or none changelog?
[02:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: for sources that are in a different component to their binaries
[02:46] <\sh> Hobbsee, ah source in universe but 1 out of 3 binary packs in main ;)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> \sh: usually the other way around.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> but, yes
[02:51] <\sh> hmm....check where the source is...you have the first letter so you can create a URL for the four sections...and if one section match use it to fetch the changelog from c.u.c
[03:47] <Hobbsee> manchicken: this stuff is a bitch.
[04:00] <manchicken> he likes being bugged :)
[04:01] <manchicken> back later
[05:04] <Jucato> happy software freedom day :)
[05:56] <mhb> Jucato: to you too
[05:58] <Jucato> just got back from our celebration here. Ubuntu was distributed with the kits. unfortunately no kubuntu...
[05:58] <Jucato> but at least KDE in some forms were well represented
[06:02] <mhb> how many python-kde projects do we have?
[06:02] <mhb> I mean those that are targeted at Kubuntu
[06:02] <mhb> gdebi-kde is in python, restricted-manager-kde is, kde-guidance is, and?
[06:03] <Jucato> all guidance stuff, software-properties, gdebi
[06:03] <Jucato> oh restricted-manager too? I see
[06:03] <stdin> yep, restricted manager is
[06:04] <Jucato> well basically every Kubuntu-specific GUI app seems to be python-based
[06:04] <mhb> Jucato: right. Do you know of any more?
[06:04] <Jucato> at the moment. no
[06:05] <Jucato> how about strigiapplet?
[06:06] <mhb> C++
[06:06] <Jucato> the one in the system tray? oh..
[06:07] <mhb> Jucato: how's your C++ skills doing?
[06:08] <Jucato> starting with object-oriented stuff next week most probably
[06:08] <Jucato> inheritance, polymorphism, operator overloading, templates
[06:10] <stdin> I made this yesterday, as a kind of self test: http://stdin.pastebin.us/39540
[06:11] <Jucato> at first glance the breaks in the switch seem to be redundant :)
[06:12] <stdin> yeah, but it's how I leant how to use them, so it's like habit ;)
[06:12] <Jucato> well, in this case it's a good habit anyway
[06:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: please teach me inheritance and the next 2 bits :P
[06:13] <Jucato> Hobbsee: if and when I myself understand them. a bit scary...
[06:13] <Jucato> it's like the pointers of C++ :)
[06:13] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:13] <Hobbsee> pointers are...yeah
[06:14] <Jucato> "ptr is a constant pointer to a constant int" :)
[06:14] <Jucato> just lovely :)
[06:14] <Hobbsee> bwah...why?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> why not just declare teh constant int and be done with it?  if you cant move the pointer anyway...
[06:15] <Hobbsee> it's bracketed trees
[06:15] <Jucato> const int *ptr; // you can make ptr point to something else
[06:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: ew.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: for what do you need such major switch statements?
[06:15] <Jucato> int const *ptr; // you can't make ptr point to something else, but you can change the value of what it's pointing to
[06:16] <Jucato> const int const *ptr; // you basically can't do anything :P
[06:16] <stdin> Hobbsee: I'm 1/2 way through my 1st book, give me a break; ;)
[06:16] <Jucato> kthxbye
[06:16] <Hobbsee> stdin: just thinking that it's a weird thing that you're trying to do.
[06:16] <Hobbsee> Jucato: heh
[06:17] <Hobbsee> stdin: btw, case 1: return foo;
[06:17] <Hobbsee> break
[06:17] <Jucato> stdin: btw, according to my book (just according to it) const would be preferred to #define
[06:17] <Hobbsee> also works
[06:17] <Hobbsee> if you're wanting to cut space a bit.
[06:17] <Jucato> what? you love using else if ladders? :)
[06:17] <stdin> Hobbsee: it was just a way to see if I got some basics down, not supposed to be "elegant" :)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> stdin: ahhh.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: depends.  usually there's a way to modify what happens so you dont need either.
[06:18] <Jucato> yeah, coz if his elegance/tabbing would be graded, I'd give him a C or D :D
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: although one of my assignments used a massive switch table, iirc.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: the trouble with switches, i find, is that they dont let you evaluate an expression inside of htem - it's only case 1, 2, 3, ... or a, b, c, ...
[06:19] <Jucato> true...
[06:19] <Jucato> that would be the use of else if ladders :)
[06:19] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:19] <Hobbsee> fgets?  hmm.  havent seen that before
[06:20] <stdin> fgets is a "safe" version of gets
[06:20] <stdin> doesn't let the input overrun the string
[06:21] <Jucato> why not use a string instead?
[06:21] <Hobbsee> or cin.get
[06:21] <Jucato> cin.getline
[06:21] <Hobbsee> oh, it it getline?
[06:21] <Jucato> I believe so
[06:22] <Hobbsee> theyr'e introducing stuff in class that i've not heard of :P
[06:22] <Jucato> I need to finish this book before next year! :)
[06:22] <Hobbsee> stdin: so are Jucato and myself :P
[06:23] <mhb> everyone is
[06:23] <Jucato> stdin: different books, different teachers, different methods of teaching :)
[06:23] <Hobbsee> mhb: no, you dont count as learning.
[06:23] <Hobbsee> you know too much.
[06:23] <Jucato> mhb: no you're not :P
[06:24] <Jucato> stdin: but from what I've learned so far, that code is a bit leaning on the "coding C in C++"... I think
[06:24] <stdin> I've already passed some parts of my book without reading them, I'm sorta jumping all over it right now. guess I need some discipline
[06:24] <Hobbsee> stdin: you can always refer back to it if you need it.
[06:24] <Jucato> yep
[06:24] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I'm the reverse, no a bit of code, very little packaging
[06:24] <Riddell> manchicken: I don't know, it should be
[06:24] <Hobbsee> uh oh, here's the high up Riddell
[06:25] <Riddell> Hobbsee: come back
[06:25] <Jucato> oooh! Riddell's back?! :)
[06:25] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what for?
[06:25] <Riddell> Jucato: I'm still in tenerife, but I have internet access now
[06:26] <Jucato> ah nice. how's everything there? :)
[06:26] <mhb> Riddell: eh? You should stay offline and relax!
[06:26] <Hobbsee> offline?  what's that?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> oh, tha'ts when the internet goes down, and we all gasp for air :P
[06:26] <Riddell> a week without internet access is stressful enough
[06:27] <Jucato> (a day in a conference without wifi is stressful...)
[06:27] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:27] <Jucato> I still have yet to attend a FOSS related event with available wifi...
[06:28] <Hobbsee> UDS had wifi, almost all the time
[06:28] <Hobbsee> not outside in the sun, near the pool though.  most disappointing :P
[06:29] <Jucato> haha
[06:29] <Hobbsee> was nice and warm, though!
[06:30] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you won't be going to Boston?
[06:30] <Hobbsee> Jucato: nope.
[06:30] <Jucato> oh..
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: boston+1 though....i'd hope to go
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i eventually got an invite, but decided that i should stay back and pass electrodynamics
[06:31] <Hobbsee> although id' love to go, i do need to finish uni
[06:31] <Jucato> yeah uni first! :)
[06:31] <Jucato> oh... hm... boston+1 would be in May right?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> in 2 years, the story will probably be different.  but i'm doing hard subjects, and i need to pass them.
[06:31] <Hobbsee> yes, that's what i'd expect
[06:31] <Jucato> time to get active! hahah
[06:32] <Jucato> it's good that it isn't in june. classes here start in june... but since I'm going for home learning, that wouldn't be a problem anyway hehe
[06:32] <Riddell> Lure: how is kdepim doing?
[06:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's during term time for me - they all are
[06:33] <Jucato> aw :(
[06:33] <Hobbsee> probably Riddell, Riddell and Riddell
[06:33] <Hobbsee> i was more wondering about kubuntu, not kde people
[06:33] <Jucato> hehe
[06:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: surely you should, you put in the sponsorship lists!
[06:34] <mhb> Jucato: going where?
[06:34] <mhb> Jucato: UDS, fosscamp, something else?
[06:34] <Jucato> mhb: FOSSCamp (that's the name right?)
[06:34] <mhb> ah, not me
[06:34] <Jucato> uds?
[06:34] <Riddell> fosscamp is the weekend I think, UDS is the week event
[06:34] <mhb> right
[06:36] <Riddell> I think mhb, jjesse and nixternal got invites
[06:36] <mhb> Jucato: I am likely going to uds, if the nice US people at the embassy give me a visa
[06:36] <nixternal> oi
[06:36] <nixternal> yes, I got one
[06:36] <Jucato> hooray for nixternal!
[06:36] <nixternal> and I am hoping that my days off come through
[06:36] <Hobbsee> woot.  there will be a semi-kubuntu presence then
[06:36] <nixternal> dunno if I can go yet...I won't seek sponsorship though, I will leave that for the people who need it
[06:36] <Jucato> hm.. better not dream of uds too much, then...
[06:36] <Jucato> :(
[06:37] <nixternal> one of these days Jucato...if I can't make this one, I can hopefully make the next one
[06:38] <Jucato> oh Riddell, while you're here, http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133388
[06:38] <ubotu> KDE bug 133388 in general "Manage Repositories is disabled" [Normal,New]
[06:38] <Jucato> haven't we fixed that in Kubuntu?
[06:39] <Riddell> Jucato: yes, we have a quick and dirty patch for it
[06:39] <Riddell> (which causes another bug if you choose the menu entry before it should be enabled)
[06:39] <Jucato> ouch..
[06:39] <Jucato> is mornfall still working on Adept btw?
[06:40] <Riddell> not as far as I know
[06:40] <Jucato> oh... :(
[06:40] <Riddell> certainly not the stable branch
[06:41] <Jucato> looks like that need for a package manger that mhb mentioned would slowly be coming true :)
[06:41] <Jucato> common backend in all *buntus, different frontends...
[06:42] <nixternal> when I run apt-get from the cli, and do an upgrade, it has a tendency to freeze before it finishes..I have to then remove the lock then -f install to complete it..anyone else seen this?
[06:42] <nixternal> I filed a bug, but haven't seen any traffic on it
[06:42] <Hobbsee> Membership of this team requires that you are a member of Ubuntu-dev - otherwise, how do you plan to upload to universe?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> so a whole stack of non ubuntu-dev people *still* apply for membership
[06:42] <nixternal> hehe
[06:43] <nixternal> what team is that Hobbsee ?
[06:43] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/
[06:43] <Hobbsee> one i'm an admin of
[06:43] <Hobbsee> and REVU is fun too.  a whole bunch of people continue to upload i386.changes.  nowhere in our docs does it state that that is acceptable.  and debian revisions of packages.
[06:43] <nixternal> hehe
[06:44] <Hobbsee> if it doesnt say ubuntu in the version number, IT IS WRONG.
[06:44] <nixternal> I keep telling people that
[06:44] <Hobbsee> i can understand getting confused over where to put it, but...
[06:45] <Jucato> in packaging, I'm more uneasy over the debian/ stuff, mostly control and rules :)
[06:45] <nixternal> although, we don't do it with the docs for some reason, but I didn't start it, I have only continued it :)
[06:45] <nixternal> Jucato: cdbs is your best friend...in /usr/share/doc/cdbs there is a guide that will show you the world :)
[06:46] <Jucato> nixternal: but don't you have to use the patch system that the previous maintainer used? iirc that was the recommendation in our guide
[06:46] <nixternal> well ya
[06:46] <Hobbsee> Jucato: usually a good idea.
[06:46] <manchicken> Riddell: Is your adept repo up to date?
[06:46] <nixternal> most of the KDE stuff is cdbs anyways
[06:47] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yeah, that's why we have REVU.  so other MOTU's can fix it.
[06:47] <Hobbsee> (and not me)
[06:47] <Jucato> hehehe
[06:48] <nixternal> Jucato: that is how I learned..go to kde-apps.org and download apps and create packages for them
[06:48] <Jucato> basically I wanted to make available *properly* packaged stuff from kde-apps/look
[06:48] <nixternal> I think you and I talked about that already before, and you said you were doing the same thing
[06:48] <Jucato> with PPA, I might not even need to have it uploaded to universe if they're not wanted :)
[06:49] <Jucato> nixternal: I *wanted* to do the same
[06:49] <Jucato> or rather, that was my motivation before
[06:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: if it's fit for general use, it should be fit for universe.
[06:49] <Hobbsee> as in, not crackful
[06:49] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yeah. but with the amount of stuff in kde-apps.org... :)
[06:49] <Riddell> manchicken: seems to be
[06:49] <manchicken> Riddell: Much thanks.
[06:50] <nixternal> like KPlayer, but the dev ended up making it GPL v3 when it linked against Qt
[06:50] <Riddell> nixternal: did you get a response to that?
[06:50] <manchicken> Riddell: I'll be working on adept intermittently throughout the day.
[06:50] <Jucato> nixternal: he did? oh...
[06:50] <Riddell> manchicken: doing anything in paticular to it?
[06:50] <manchicken> I'm holding a free computer workshop today to celebrate Software Freedom Day
[06:50] <manchicken> Riddell: Changelog stuff seems to be near the top of the list.  Did you have a preference?
[06:50] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, he said stick with the older version, because he isn't moving away from GPL v3
[06:51] <manchicken> Riddell: Although I really want to do a python app that looks and smells more like the GNOME update-manager program.
[06:51] <nixternal> I don't want to smell Gnome!
[06:51] <manchicken> nixternal: Your mother smells like gnome, so I didn't think it bothered you so much :P
[06:51] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i cc'd you on a bug about the 404's, btw
[06:51] <Riddell> manchicken: we may well end up doing that for hardy+1 but it needs pykde 4 bindings with an embedded konsole first
[06:52] <nixternal> I told her to shower with a bar of KDE, so it should be better now
[06:52] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Cool.  I think Marco marked that one as a duplicate of the one where it's not fetching the changelogs.
[06:52] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm on board with the Python stuff, so count me in.
[06:52] <Hobbsee> manchicken: no, i reported one for aptitude
[06:53] <Hobbsee> (with reasons)
[06:53] <manchicken> nixternal: You're not fully clean until your KDE fully clean.
[06:53] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Ah, that one.  Gotcha.'
[06:53] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:53] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ameteur guess is that that code is in apt/libept anyway, so if you change it for one, you'll change it for all
[06:54] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well synaptic doesn't seem to have this same problem.
[06:54] <Hobbsee> right
[06:54] <mhb> manchicken: is adept really *that* fubar?
[06:54] <manchicken> mhb: I don't want to call it fubar, because I really do think it works and works well.
[06:54] <manchicken> mhb: I just don't think it fits the complete picture of what we want it to do.
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: At least not without lots of nasty hacks.
[06:55] <mhb> manchicken: python is fine for apps that you don't really run twice a day, but for a package manager I'd still go for C++
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: But I'm not the kubuntu-driver.  Riddell is :)
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: I would, too.  But even then I'd say that adept isn't necessarily what we want to completely stick with.
[06:55] <mhb> manchicken: yeah, but you have been taking care of adept for us, so your voice is important in this debate
[06:56] <manchicken> mhb: I've been pretty MIA lately though :)
[06:56] <manchicken> mhb: It will take almost a complete refactoring of adept to get the UTF8 stuff working properly.
[06:56] <Jucato> manchicken: you're still one of the Adept men, regardless :)
[06:57] <manchicken> Jucato: Thanks :)
[06:57] <Jucato> g'night Hobbsee!!!
[06:57] <nixternal> manchicken: you guys rocking the freedom thing down there today?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> night :)
[06:57] <manchicken> I hope some folks come to my computer workshop today ^_^
[06:57] <manchicken> Otherwise I may be very bored today.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> manchicken: oh well, you stay here while i go MIA :)
[06:57] <mhb> manchicken: the only downside of C++ is that it is hard to convince Gnome guys to have a C++ based backend
[06:57] <manchicken> nixternal: Trying to.
[06:57] <Jucato> manchicken: if it weren't too much work, I'd vote for a new or a reborn adept. but he who codes decides :)
[06:57] <manchicken> mhb: libapt scares me to be honest.
[06:58] <manchicken> mhb: There are so many areas of libapt where you have to swim forever to find a crash.
[06:58] <Jucato> manchicken: isn't adept made up of at least 3 languages? C++(Qt/KDE), python, and STL? :)
[06:58] <manchicken> mhb: And I haven't seen any serious documentation on the library--not that there for sure isn't any, I just haven't seen it.
[06:58] <manchicken> Jucato: Well, there is a Python interface to it, but libapt itself is C++ w/STL.
[06:58] <manchicken> No Qt/KDE
[06:59] <Jucato> ouch
[06:59] <mhb> manchicken: libapt or libept?
[06:59] <mhb> manchicken: that's a difference
[06:59] <manchicken> mhb: libapt-front and libapt-cache is what I'm talking about.
[06:59] <manchicken> Jucato: STL was the appropriate decision--short of a non-template-based library--for libapt though.
[07:00] <manchicken> Jucato: libapt shouldn't be tied to KDE, because Synaptic uses it, too, IIRC.
[07:00] <Jucato> it does? oh...
[07:00] <manchicken> I think so.  Not sure.
[07:00] <manchicken> I think aptitude may use it as well.
[07:00] <Jucato> but can't there still be a common backend, even if the frontends would be C++(KDE) and C(GNOME)? or is python really the only solution for this frontend-backend thing?
[07:00] <manchicken> Well libapt is the common backend.
[07:00] <Jucato> ah
[07:01] <manchicken> That's why STL is the most appropriate template library.
[07:01] <manchicken> It's just that STL is a PITA for UTF8.
[07:01] <manchicken> BAM!  Three acronyms.  Beat that.
[07:01] <jjesse> Riddell:  yes i did get an inivte and yes i did accept it, approved for wor kand all that
[07:01] <Jucato> STL is a PITA for UTF8 in APT?
[07:01] <manchicken> Jucato: Yeah.  STL does have UTF stuff though.
[07:02] <manchicken> Jucato: Very nice.
[07:02] <manchicken> Jucato: It's just that UTF8 is a normal thing in Qt, and it's not as much of a normal thing in STL as far as I can tell.
[07:02] <manchicken> I don't see it used as often.
[07:03] <manchicken> And while I don't really care about UTF8 much for myself, for you and many other Ubuntu/Kubuntuers, UTF8 is a big deal.
[07:03] <Riddell> jjesse: oh, great
[07:03] <jjesse> Riddell: yes boss thought it sounded like a great idea
[07:04] <jjesse> mahybe it will help convince him to do some linux consulting or something?
[07:04] <mhb> Jucato: what I'm talking about is how much code can be shared
[07:05] <Jucato> mhb: I see...
[07:05] <mhb> Jucato: when you use python, you can share a whole lot of code. only the DisplayText() and DisplayIcon() methods have to be UI-dependent, all the logic can be shared
[07:05] <mhb> with a nice object-oriented interface
[07:06] <mhb> gdebi has one, restricted-manager has too
[07:06] <Jucato> (software-properties as well afaik)
[07:06] <Jucato> oh well... :(
[07:06] <manchicken> mhb: For sure adept could be modified to fit everything we want to do with it, but we have to remember that we're pretty much the only group putting any serious effort into it.  IIRC mornfall is doing the family man thing--as am I--and his time seems to be in short supply.
[07:06] <mhb> but if you stick with a C library, you would have to tear out all this object-oriented logic into the frontend, which means less code reuse
[07:07] <mhb> the functions
[07:07] <Jucato> mhb: tbh, call me selfish, but I'm not really much concerned with how much code would be shared with GNOME :)
[07:08] <Jucato> as long as backends would be the same hehehe
[07:08] <mhb> (returnAllPackages() or something) can be shared, but the code that actually calls them cannot, but that can be done with python
[07:08] <Jucato> yeah I know.. I'm bad :P
[07:09] <mhb> Jucato: right, I'm being more pragmatic. If the shared code is maintained by folks like you or me, it will be worse than if it is maintained by a Canonical employee
[07:09] <mhb> because we cannot put all our time into it, whereas professional have the chance
[07:10] <mhb> Jucato: I can step out of Restricted Manager and be sure that bugs will be fixed in the common code by pitti and others, and therefore there will be bugs caught for the -kde frontend without me
[07:11] <mhb> Jucato: if there's a bug fixed in Synaptic and a similar one in Adept, noone from Synaptic will fix the Adept one
[07:11] <Jucato> although I doubt the GNOME guys are going to move away from Synaptic... :)
[07:11] <Jucato> unless of course mandated by Canonical :P
[07:13] <mhb> Jucato: this is actually my problem with the fancy new KDE4 Qt-based technologies
[07:13] <mhb> like Phonon or Solid
[07:14] <mhb> if I wanted to make a splendid new hardware manager for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, I would have to make it either HAL-based, or make them totally separate
[07:14] <Jucato> mhb: well we'll have to see. some software development didn't always evolve start from a crossdesktop orientation
[07:15] <Jucato> most of the stuff in fd.o started from one side or the other, got accepted as a standard, and shoved in the other's throat :)
[07:15] <Jucato> so who knows... these KDE 4 stuff might evolve into something less KDE-centric and more fd.o-centric
[07:16] <Jucato> (unless of course some other people decide to make a similar implementation, submit to fd.o, get approved, etc...)
[07:16] <Jucato> anyway...
[07:16] <mhb> btw, is foreach() in some C++ library or is that just a Qt/KDE4 construct ?
[07:17] <mhb> because you have to use it in Solid
[07:17] <Riddell> it's a Qt 4 macro
[07:17] <Riddell> can't remember how it's implemented, maybe moc expands it
[07:18] <Lure> Riddell: kdepim is looking ok, we did another snapshot upload, now I plan to monitor svn for potential bug fixes
[07:18] <Jucato> mhb: sorry, but I'm of the opinion that you can't always play/win the cross-desktop card... so I may not be as worried as you. nonetheless I do understand where you're coming from :)
[07:19] <mhb> Jucato: right. That is true for apps like video players or graphic editing apps, but a package manager should be the must
[07:19] <mhb> Jucato: if we shared more with Ubuntu, we'd have less bugs in Adept. Now all we have is an unmaintained KDE3 app
[07:21] <mhb> Jucato: at least it's in KDE upstream SVN, right? :o)
[07:21] <Jucato> no. that wasn't what I was thinking
[07:21] <Jucato> :P
[07:21] <Jucato> ooh wow! ThomasZ! in here! :)
[07:21] <manchicken> Back.
[07:21] <Riddell> Lure: ThomasZ is having some problems with kdepim
[07:22] <Lure> Riddell: bug in LP?
[07:22] <manchicken> Having to have the coffee shop owner print out some signs for me.
[07:22] <gnomefreak> is upstream missing hte menu or just our version of kde4?
[07:22] <Jucato> gnomefreak: afaik, no plasma-based menu at all
[07:22] <mhb> gnomefreak: plasmoids are in playground, that's the problem
[07:22] <Jucato> not even with playground/base/plasma
[07:23] <mhb> sure, there is a plasma-based menu
[07:23] <gnomefreak> mhb: ah so once that is finally pushed i can have menu? ;)
[07:23] <Jucato> mhb: which one?
[07:23] <ThomasZ> Jucato: hiya :)
[07:24] <mhb> wait, I'm talking about the bar again instead of the menu
[07:24] <Jucato> :)
[07:24] <mhb> there was a button for it, but I'm not sure if they made progress
[07:24] <Jucato> well as of yesterday, no change
[07:24] <mhb> ah, sorry then
[07:24] <Jucato> even raptor doesn't do anything worthwhile except show up :)
[07:25] <Jucato> I'm not exactly the authority on all things plasmoid though :)
[07:25] <manchicken> Jucato: Really?  I feel so misled!
[07:25] <ThomasZ> Lure: my showstoppper-bug in kmail is that if I use kmail filters on my inbox for dimap to filter the mail to another account (and thus delete it in that inbox) doing a sync later will not delete the email in my inbox, but downloading it again.  So I end up with getting duplicates of my mail.
[07:25] <Jucato> manchicken: hehehe! nixternal's misleading advertisements of me :)
[07:26] <Lure> ThomasZ: interesting issue - since I use dimap, I will try to reproduce on monday
[07:26] <manchicken> Is anybody aware of any documentation for libapt or libept?
[07:27] <mhb> manchicken: not really, but I can help you search
[07:27] <Lure> ThomasZ: please open bug for this and you may want to talk with people in #kontact channel (just mention that you use enterprise version in kubuntu)
[07:27] <Lure> manchicken: isn't documentation "ask manchicken" ;-)
[07:27] <manchicken> Lure: That's not for documentation, that's for misinformation :)
[07:28] <Riddell> libept isn't documented
[07:29] <manchicken> Ooh, there is a "source" method in the PackageT template.
[07:29] <ThomasZ> Lure: in the meantime, is there any way to get a proper working (aka old) kmail for gutsy?  I need something workin for my work machine.
[07:30] <manchicken> Not sure what it does though.
[07:34] <Lure> ThomasZ: I do not see an easy way to downgrade. You could pick up old source package and build it yourself...
[07:36] <Riddell> ThomasZ: you can try grabbing the resulting binaries from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:3.5.7-1ubuntu7/+build/373215
[07:36] <Riddell> although there's quite a few
[07:36] <ThomasZ> hmm, ok, thanks
[07:54] <mhb> I've got some question, perhaps manchicken or someone else can help me...
[07:54] <mhb> what is libapt-front and what is its relationship to libept?
[07:54] <mhb> is libept used by anything other than adept? Is it actively maintained?
[08:03] <Riddell> mhb: libept is a library to do things with apt
[08:03] <Riddell> libapt-front is an old version of libept
[08:03] <Riddell> adept (being old) uses libapt-front, libapt-front is not maintained
[08:03] <Riddell> libept is maintained (by enrico) and is used in debtags and ept-cache
[10:18] <manchicken> Sweet.  Compiz-fusion is working nicely now.
[10:42] <Riddell> manchicken: with KDE borders?
[10:47] <waylandbill> I haven't tried compiz-fusion lately. The last time I did, the window decorations disappeared and my kicker panel didn't respond.
[10:48] <allee> manchicken: intel gfx?
[10:48] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm using emerald now.
[10:48] <allee> oh, hi Riddell  welcome back!!
[10:49] <manchicken> allee: Yeah.  It's very nice.
[10:49] <manchicken> I'm really liking it.
[10:49] <manchicken> It's actually faster than normal window management.
[10:50] <allee> Oh, cool.  /me wait's for bzr branch to finish ...
[10:50] <Riddell> manchicken: what's that?
[10:51] <Riddell> hola allee
[10:51] <manchicken> Riddell: What's what?  Emerald?
[10:51] <manchicken> Riddell: The kde-window-decorator kinda stinks.
[10:52] <manchicken> Riddell: Emerald (from Beryl, IIRC) works nicely with both KDE and compiz.
[10:55] <Riddell> manchicken: and emerald is another window decorator?
[10:56] <manchicken> Yes
[10:56] <manchicken> A very nice one.
[10:56] <manchicken> I'm really enjoying it.
[10:57] <Riddell> but gtk based
[10:57] <gnomefreak> only if it was easier to turn on
[10:57] <manchicken> Don't know.  Probably.
[10:57] <manchicken> gnomefreak: Too true.
[10:57] <manchicken> gnomefreak: I had to do way too much scripting to get this working.
[10:57] <manchicken> I'm just glad compiz seems stable enough to use now.
[10:58] <manchicken> The desktop effects gnome thing should do that
[10:58] <gnomefreak> manchicken: but i cant use emerald
[10:58] <gnomefreak> it is using default themes no way to change theme afaict
[11:00] <manchicken> gnomefreak: Why not?
[11:00] <gnomefreak> thats odd
[11:00] <manchicken> I'm changing themes in emerald without much trouble.
[11:00] <gnomefreak> it wasnt on but had some effects
[11:00] <manchicken> You just have to run emerald's theme manager.
[11:00] <manchicken> Might that have just been compiz?
[11:00] <manchicken> KDE's translucency stuff seems to work, but it's far from stable.
[11:00] <gnomefreak> i did but seems it wasnt enabled but i did hit enable
[11:02] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm still no themes and i saw splash but no icon in task bar
[11:04] <gnomefreak> trying emeralds theme svn thingy lets see
[11:07] <gnomefreak> manchicken: did you try the emerald theme fetcher?
[11:08] <manchicken> gnomefreak: No.  Is that built into the theme manager?
[11:09] <gnomefreak> yes
[11:10] <gnomefreak> under repositories
[11:11] <manchicken> Doesn't seem to do anything.
[11:12] <manchicken> brb, got folks here
[11:31] <ryanakca> Riddell: how was your vacation?
[11:31] <Riddell> ryanakca: ask me again in a week
[11:31] <ryanakca> Ah, not done :)
[11:32] <Riddell> just moved to somewhere with network
[11:32] <Riddell> and no English people
[11:32] <mhb> ryanakca: and he calls that vacation :o)
[11:33] <ryanakca> hehe
[11:33] <ryanakca> Where you now? (other than networked/non-anglophone community)
[11:33] <mhb> just joking ... everyone has a different idea of vacation
[11:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: here http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/2007-09-15-tenerife/100_1068.jpg
[11:35] <ryanakca> Ah, cool :D
[11:35] <Riddell> La Laguna, the city where everyone runs Kubuntu
[11:36] <ryanakca> before you disappear again, (if you have another guess off the top of your head, if not, don't bother looking into it, you're on vacation), have any more ideas for bug 136560 ?
[11:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136560 in kdebase "kde-base update install env and share folder at wrong place" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136560
[11:37] <ryanakca> I've asked around in here over the past couple days, still no clue :)
[11:37] <Riddell> ryanakca: didn't we fix that?
[11:37] <ryanakca> I thought we did
[11:37] <Riddell> hmm, no, we didn't
[11:38] <ryanakca> but, I guess s/$KDEHOME/$kdehome didn't cut it
[11:38] <Riddell> "cp -f /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh $HOME/$KDEHOME/env"  still has it in capitals
[11:38] <Riddell> give me a minute and I'll look at where it broke
[11:38] <ryanakca> ok, well, I'm off to my birthday supper, so, I'll either see you in a week, or later on tonight :)
[11:38] <ryanakca> Enjoy your vacation, and thanks :)
[11:39] <mhb> ryanakca: you have got birthday?
[11:40] <mhb> ryanakca: right, you have!


[01:04] <bddebian> Heya folks
[01:43] <jsgotangco> good morning
[05:17] <_dewey> are questions about installing edubuntu allowed here???
[05:18] <crimsun> sure
[05:19] <bimberi> _dewey: absolutely! hopefully someone can help out :)
[05:20] <Burgundavia> _dewey: this is not a channel about edubuntu ;)
[05:20] <_dewey> I have downloaded and installed twice. I get only command line, not gui on installing. get gui from livecd. what am i doing wrong
[05:21] <bimberi> eek, 81 seconds lag :/
[05:24] <bimberi> _dewey: probably nothing, possibly an issue with graphics drivers
[05:25] <_dewey> ok, thanks. I have another video board or another computer. I'll try again. Thanks again
[05:25] <bimberi> _dewey: try booting (to the text mode), logging in and 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'
[05:25] <_dewey> ok, I'll try ;that first
[05:26] <bimberi> _dewey: righto, that will ask lots of questions, the defaults are usually pretty good
[05:26] <bimberi> _dewey: once it finishes, try a 'sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart' and see if it gets the gui working
[05:28] <_dewey> ok thanks, I'll try  both  but must wait till morning. bedtime here in east texas.  thanks agian.
[05:29] <bimberi> _dewey: np, sleep well :)
[07:59] <highvoltage> morning, #edubuntu
[07:59] <highvoltage> ogra: ping
[08:01] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
[08:01] <bimberi_> hi highvoltage
[08:09] <highvoltage> hey bimberi_
[08:10] <jsgotangco> hey
[08:13] <highvoltage> mr gotangco
[08:13] <jsgotangco> whats up?
[08:14] <highvoltage> 8:14 monday morning. drinking coffee and reading mail :)
[08:14] <highvoltage> trying to make sense of the week ahead.
[08:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:15] <jsgotangco> its 2:15pm here and im still trying to make sense of the week ahead
[08:15] <highvoltage> lol
[08:16] <bimberi_> 16:14 monday afternoon. drinking coffee and comtemplating heading home (with a visit to a nonresponsive remote box on the way)
[08:16] <bimberi_> :)
[08:17] <crimsun> 2:16 am and trying not to stress before a presentation in 8 hours
[08:17] <highvoltage> seems like we've got today covered ;)
[08:17] <jsgotangco> crimsun: you've been merging all night!
[08:18] <crimsun>
[08:18] <crimsun> err, sorry, crazy keypresses
[09:07] <cbx33> ok guys got a question for you
[09:07] <cbx33> is it normal for firefox to ignore a link to a file:/// if the page is contained on a web server
[09:08] <cbx33> if the page is a local file, then it works fine
[09:18] <jsgotangco> i believe it assumes its a local file, not a file contained within a webserver and waits for http instead
[09:38] <jsgotangco> man im bored
[09:39] <DanielC> morning everyone
[09:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: what company do you work for?
[09:41] <highvoltage> morning DanielC
[09:42] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: at the moment? its a small company called Bugal Pty. Ltd.
[09:42] <highvoltage> i've never worked for a company that allowed me to get bored before :)
[09:43] <DanielC> :)
[09:43] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: work here is pretty much "spur of the moment" type i would love to get busy why not
[09:44] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: maybe not just with the work load but the environment itself :/
[09:45] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: aaah. i understand.
[10:52] <cbx33> hi all
[10:53] <cbx33> ping pygi
[10:57] <ajaycc> hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:57] <ajaycc> i got my cd :D
[10:57] <ajaycc> !hi
[10:57] <ubotu> I know nothing about hi
[10:57] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:57] <jsgotangco> hope you like the CD
[10:57] <ajaycc> i do
[10:57] <ajaycc> i am using ubuntu sice ver 3
[10:57] <cbx33> hey jsgotangco
[10:57] <pygi> cbx33, how may I help you? :)
[10:57] <ajaycc> i wanna contribute now
[10:58] <jsgotangco> cbx33: good morning to you
[10:58] <ajaycc> can anyone tell me how
[10:58] <pygi> ajaycc, version 3? what's that? :P
[10:58] <cbx33> hi pygi just wondering how much exp you had with uimanager ?
[10:58] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: what are you interested in?
[10:58] <ajaycc> version 3 of ubuntu
[10:58] <ajaycc> anything that matters
[10:58] <ajaycc> :)
[10:58] <pygi> ajaycc, there was no version 3? :)
[10:58] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you should be more specific than that or else we'll have you fix ltsp :P
[10:59] <ajaycc> lol
[10:59] <ajaycc> i am 16
[10:59] <cbx33> ajaycc: what are you skilled at?
[10:59] <ajaycc> so tell me what i can do
[10:59] <ajaycc> well web designing
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, o yes, btw. have you choosen your task for S-C-P?
[10:59] <jsgotangco> are you good at art?
[10:59] <ajaycc> a bit
[10:59] <jsgotangco> web design?
[10:59] <ajaycc> yeah
[10:59] <jsgotangco> writing help pages?
[10:59] <cbx33> pygi: not yet
[10:59] <jsgotangco> these are usual starting points to those new t the project
[10:59] <ajaycc> and i wanna make BIG name among the community :D
[10:59] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: it shouldn't be YOUR primary motive though
[11:00] <ajaycc> sure
[11:00] <cbx33> pygi: is there a way I can use slashes in a menuitem?
[11:00] <ajaycc> i was kidding
[11:00] <pygi> cbx33, oki, I'll try to take on my task as soon as possible
[11:00] <cbx33> it screws it up cos it thinks it's part of the path
[11:00] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you can contribute wallpapers and stuff
[11:00] <cbx33> pygi: I suppose Ishould start thinking - I don;t want the impossible one
[11:00] <pygi> cbx33, :P
[11:00] <cbx33> AliasVegas could be becomming artwork team leader next council meeting
[11:00] <ajaycc> should i make my own page at wiki?
[11:01] <jsgotangco> cbx33: really?
[11:01] <cbx33> ajaycc: yes
[11:01] <cbx33> jsgotangco: possibly yes, she was approached by highvoltage and ogra
[11:01] <cbx33> just needs a vote by the council
[11:01] <jsgotangco> :)
[11:03] <cbx33> pygi: whos doing the plugin interface?
[11:03] <pygi> cbx33, me :)
[11:03] <cbx33> ah cool
[11:03] <cbx33> do you know what everyone else is doing?
[11:04] <ajaycc> i am gonna idle here and contribute :D
[11:04] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: we always have community meetings every wednesday
[11:04] <ajaycc> nice
[11:05] <ajaycc> will be there
[11:05] <ajaycc> and yeah why didnt edubuntu was a livecd?
[11:05] <jsgotangco> so feel free to dive in and get a feel
[11:05] <ajaycc> any reason??
[11:05] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: there's a live CD
[11:05] <ajaycc> jsgotangco: sure i will be there
[11:05] <jsgotangco> but only for workstation
[11:05] <ajaycc> jsgotangco: the cd i got is installation only
[11:05] <ajaycc> some mistake i guess
[11:05] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: it doesn't really make sense performance-wise to have an ltsp livecd
[11:05] <jsgotangco> no its meant to be
[11:05] <pygi> cbx33, yes, you do one more task, and ogra does the rest :P
[11:05] <ajaycc> jsgotangco: that is fine was just curios
[11:06] <jsgotangco> edubuntu, first and foremost, is  a server solution
[11:06] <ajaycc> yeah
[11:06] <pygi> cbx33, tho,I'll help once I'm done with plugin stuff
[11:06] <cbx33> pygi: plugin stuff shouldn't be too difficult should it?
[11:07] <cbx33> just need some kind of small API right?
[11:07] <ajaycc> i am gonna install ubuntu, kubuntu and edubntu on my lappy seperately
[11:07] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: if you have a spare machine, you might want to play around with the server stuff, its really nice and shiny
[11:07] <cbx33> what about xubuntu?
[11:07] <ajaycc> i already got that
[11:07] <pygi> cbx33, nop, shouldn't be too difficult, that's why I said I'll help ogra on other taks as well
[11:07] <ajaycc> jsgotangco: i aint got extra machine :(
[11:07] <ajaycc> so gotta play with my lappy
[11:07] <cbx33> I'll help out on what ever I can, may need a bit of help sometimes pygi
[11:08] <cbx33> ajaycc: how fast is the lappy
[11:08] <cbx33> you could always use vmware
[11:08] <ajaycc> cant man
[11:08] <cbx33> y?
[11:08] <pygi> cbx33, no problem, you can always poke around me or someone:)
[11:08] <ajaycc> this is pentium M 740 256 MB DDR2
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[11:08] <cbx33> ajaycc: ah ok
[11:08] <jsgotangco> it'll crawl
[11:08] <ajaycc> :D
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you're always welcome to test the workstation though!
[11:09] <ajaycc> i will today
[11:09] <cbx33> pygi: can you point me in the direction of a task that hasn't been assigned and will be doable?
[11:09] <pygi> cbx33, sure, if you gimme url with taks (I forgot it :P)
[11:09] <cbx33> ok
[11:09] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelCompletion
[11:10] <pygi> thanks
[11:10] <pygi> what about Killing processes?
[11:10] <pygi> that should be easily doable
[11:10] <cbx33> yeh, ok
[11:10] <cbx33> I'll give that one a look
[11:10] <cbx33> are we using bzr?
[11:10] <jsgotangco> yes please!
[11:11] <pygi> cbx33, yes :)
[11:11] <ajaycc> my parents and school people think linux is crap
[11:11] <ajaycc> :(
[11:11] <cbx33> ajaycc: well, advocacy can be hard sometimes
[11:11] <cbx33> why do they think it's crap?
[11:12] <ajaycc> they are all mad
[11:12] <ajaycc> i am convincing our school head to install edubuntu
[11:12] <ajaycc> but he wont listen
[11:12] <cbx33> cool
[11:12] <ajaycc> that git
[11:12] <cbx33> aww
[11:12] <cbx33> I actually work for a school
[11:12] <cbx33> so I may be able to give you some pointers there
[11:12] <cbx33> on how to persuade
[11:12] <cbx33> we have a linux and windows system here
[11:12] <ajaycc> nice
[11:12] <ajaycc> mail me man
[11:12] <ajaycc> we got only windows
[11:12] <ajaycc> and the pc are shit
[11:13] <ajaycc> he is buying all new pc
[11:13] <ajaycc> i am telling him to buy a really good server
[11:13] <ajaycc> and get thin clients ready
[11:13] <ajaycc> and i told him i will take responsibility
[11:13] <cbx33> who acutally does all the installation
[11:13] <ajaycc> but that fool refused
[11:13] <ajaycc> i will
[11:13] <pygi> ajaycc, calm down :P
[11:13] <ajaycc> our teacher knows shit nothing else
[11:13] <ajaycc> :)
[11:13] <cbx33> is there not an IT team there?
[11:13] <ajaycc> heh
[11:14] <ajaycc> IT team is crap they dunno what is RAID and dunno what linux
[11:14] <cbx33> it that case
[11:14] <cbx33> that's probably why he doesn't want to move to a linux system
[11:14] <ajaycc> yeah
[11:14] <cbx33> if you're going to be supporting it
[11:14] <cbx33> what happens when you leave
[11:15] <cbx33> he's left with a good system, but if something goes wrong, limited options to get it fixed
[11:15] <pygi> ajaycc, what country are you anyway?
[11:15] <ajaycc> i will stay here man and  i am ready to train a few dingbats
[11:15] <ajaycc> pygi: India
[11:15] <cbx33> plus, the whole teaching curriculum would have to be changed
[11:15] <ajaycc> cbx33: as it is each an everyday they install winxp cos it crashes everyday
[11:15] <ajaycc> cbx33: we just learn C++ nothing else
[11:15] <cbx33> I'm facing the same issues here
[11:15] <cbx33> you actually learn c++ at school?
[11:16] <ajaycc> i know it others do
[11:16] <cbx33> pygi: do we have a bzr url for scp?
[11:16] <ajaycc> i just sit there glaring at the teacher
[11:16] <pygi> cbx33, there is official one from ogra, and we should branch from it
[11:16] <ajaycc> staring not glaring :)
[11:16] <cbx33> pygi: ok grabbing it now
[11:16] <cbx33> the one on LP?
[11:17] <ajaycc> brb
[11:17] <pygi> cbx33, yes I believe
[11:18] <cbx33> ok
[11:18] <cbx33> am grabbing now
[11:19] <cbx33> pygi: the annoying thing is
[11:19] <cbx33> I want to develop on my laptop
[11:19] <cbx33> but I'll need clients logged in etc to do it
[11:27] <jsgotangco> cbx33: in most indian schools I know, they teach students to program, nothing more, and most of these students are too poor to buy a computer, so when they go to work, they only know how to program and have no clue in installing an OS...ive encountered such quite a number of times
[11:27] <jsgotangco> amazingly there are some really good programmers that sprang out of it
[11:27] <cbx33> jsgotangco: i see
[11:27] <cbx33> of course
[11:28] <cbx33> everything I learnt was off my own back
[11:28] <jsgotangco> when i was in hyderabad a few months ago, i even have to teach them how to make partitions
[11:28] <cbx33> crikey
[11:28] <jsgotangco> it surprised me as well
[11:30] <jsgotangco> i always get to learn lots of things when i travel and interact with people on technology
[11:30] <cbx33> jsgotangco: for me a day isn't worth it unless I've learnt something
[11:30] <jsgotangco> oh i learn something everyday no doubt
[11:31] <jsgotangco> but learning from outside is quite different
[11:31] <cbx33> true
[11:31] <jsgotangco> and you appreciate the simple things that most people are not able to get or comprehend
[11:31] <cbx33> i feel I havn't accomplished anything unless I learn
[11:32] <jsgotangco> in a way, even if its miniscule, im very proud to be involved in ubuntu and has probably made me more fulfilled in life
[11:32] <cbx33> me too
[11:32] <cbx33> and my contribution is smaller than yours :p
[11:32] <jsgotangco> it has become my vice
[11:34] <jsgotangco> im very thankful for the opportunities the project has given me
[11:34] <cbx33> yes
[11:34] <cbx33> I love working on *buntu so much
[11:34] <cbx33> I'm ever hopeful of working for Canonical one day
[11:35] <jsgotangco> its a nice goal its something i would think of as a bonus if it happened to me
[11:35] <cbx33> atm it's my goal
[11:35] <cbx33> I could do this work all day long
[11:36] <cbx33> I am able to affect a few people here, but working for them I feel I could do so much more
[11:36] <jsgotangco> i would like to do that too sometime
[11:36] <jsgotangco> or given the chance why not
[11:38] <cbx33> pygi: you still there?
[11:38] <pygi> cbx33, no :P
[11:39] <cbx33> do you have the scp code there?
[11:39] <pygi> where? :P
[11:39] <cbx33> do you have it available to look at?
[11:39] <pygi> nop, not ATM
[11:39] <cbx33> ok
[11:39] <cbx33> if you do
[11:40] <cbx33> if count:
[11:40] <cbx33> does it pass if count is only 1
[11:40] <cbx33> or just anything greater than 0
[11:51] <cbx33> ok just made one modification
[11:51] <cbx33> now I don;t get any errors if I run it without any users being connected
[12:16] <ogra> cbx33, you got errors ?
[12:17] <cbx33> yeh only one I fixed it if you want a patch
[12:17] <ogra> i never had any errors
[12:17] <cbx33> or I may be completely wrong
[12:17] <cbx33> the populate_procs function
[12:17] <cbx33> last 4 lines
[12:17] <cbx33> I think should be inside the if indent
[12:17] <cbx33> they are only useful if the previous 2 lines are ran anyway
[12:18] <cbx33> it was an uninitialised variable
[12:19] <ogra> oh, right i get that too
[12:19] <cbx33> it's because the machine I'm running it on has no ltsp server or clients on it
[12:19] <cbx33> I have to find a way to setup something so I can develop at home
[12:19] <ogra> that'll be hard
[12:19] <ogra> the ltsp connections dont use a login shell via ssh, so you dont have any pty's attached
[12:20] <cbx33> I know, but I can't really spend too much time developing here
[12:20] <ogra> keep that in mind ..
[12:20] <cbx33> work is enveloping me
[12:20] <cbx33> I'll have to just setup some vm's somewhere
[12:20] <cbx33> only problem is the main machine I'd use for testing has a very.....ooop nevermind I have a brilliant idea :D
[12:21] <cbx33> did you get the same error as I?
[12:21] <ogra> yep
[12:22] <cbx33> and does the flag parameter actually do anything?
[12:22] <ogra> user referenced before assignment
[12:22] <cbx33> it's never returned and from what I can see it's never set when populate_procs is called
[12:22] <cbx33> on line 52
[12:22] <ogra> but please use try statemanes instead if if statements for such cases where possible
[12:22] <ogra> *statements
[12:23] <cbx33> you konw I didn;'t write the original right ;P ?
[12:23] <ogra> no, but if you add such tests, try is the better way ... :)
[12:24] <cbx33> right ok
[12:24] <cbx33> may I ask for what reason...so I can understand better?
[12:26] <cbx33> I'm hopefully going to get started on the kill procedure later
[12:27] <spacey> hi hi
[12:28] <ogra> cbx33, its the error catching function ... and looks better in the code :)
[12:28] <cbx33> ok
[12:28] <cbx33> ogra: you said in a bzr comment that the kill button was hidden in the gui
[12:28] <cbx33> I don;t see it
[12:28] <cbx33> sorry in the spec
[12:28] <cbx33> not in the bzr comment
[12:28] <cbx33> am I ok to add it?
[12:29] <ogra> hmm, i thought i had added it already ... look through the bzr revisions, probably i dropped it at some point, just grab the bzr diff and reapply it :)
[12:30] <ogra> yay, my edubuntu CDs arrived :)
[12:30] <DanielC> ogra: Why do you need Edubuntu CDs?
[12:30] <highvoltage> mine too, just a few minutes ago :)
[12:30] <ogra> DanielC, to frame them ;)
[12:30] <highvoltage> (and Ubuntu CD's)
[12:30] <DanielC> really?
[12:31] <ogra> DanielC, well, i'll need them for talks etc to give away ... but these 5 are just for my closet
[12:32] <DanielC> :)
[12:32] <ogra> i'll get anotehr box with 500 the next weeks for some talks i'll hold ...
[12:33] <spacey> i should get some edubuntu cd's as well
[12:33] <spacey> but since only part of my mixed order was approved i have no idea how many
[12:33] <ogra> yeah, order them, share them !
[12:34] <ogra> make us famous :)
[12:34] <spacey> i ordered a batch as well for my scheduled talks
[12:35] <spacey> ogra: there is some fundamental work being done to get linux to the primary schools in the netherlands
[12:35] <spacey> its in the early stages
[12:35] <spacey> so we just have to wait
[12:35] <ogra> cool
[12:35] <spacey> in anycase i'm involved with it
[12:35] <spacey> and making sure it will be edubuntu
[12:35] <spacey> :p
[12:35] <spacey> at least with a focus on edubuntu
[12:35] <ogra> i had a nice phonecall with a guy who works tight with the ministry of culture and arts in bayern, they are intrested too
[12:36] <spacey> thats nice
[12:36] <ogra> yeah
[12:36] <ogra> he wants to start a big PR campaign :)
[12:37] <cbx33> excellent
[12:38] <cbx33> how long till Richard starts?
[12:38] <ogra> 11days iirc
[12:39] <cbx33> ok
[12:39] <cbx33> I need to talk to him about BETT2007
[12:41] <ogra> cbx33, btw, note that the s-c-p spec still isnt approved, there might still be changes in details
[12:41] <highvoltage> ogra: could you please go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuXfceDesktop ?
[12:41] <cbx33> ogra: ok cool
[12:41] <ogra> highvoltage, reading
[12:41] <highvoltage> ogra: i would like to put it up for review today, but not sure what else needs to be fixed
[12:41] <cbx33> ogra: could it be dropped altogether?
[12:42] <rodarvus> good morning
[12:42] <ogra> cbx33, nope, it has high priority and is on my list for implementations in dapper
[12:42] <ogra> err
[12:42] <ogra> edgy
[12:42] <highvoltage> morning rodarvus
[12:42] <ogra> morning rodarvus
[12:42] <cbx33> ok cool
[12:42] <cbx33> hi rodarvus
[12:43] <ogra> rodarvus, now i actually have been convinced by fabionne to watch some soccer and your people just loose ... what happened ? that was pretty ppor for .br
[12:43] <ogra> *poor
[12:44] <rodarvus> ogra, that was the worse football game ever
[12:44] <rodarvus> shame on us
[12:44] <rodarvus> praise zidane
[12:45] <ogra> well, old farts running after the ball ... your team needs fresh blood
[12:45] <rodarvus> I believe the problem was not their ages, but their egos
[12:45] <ogra> zidane had two or three enlightened moments, but wasnt great either i found ...
[12:46] <ogra> actually from three games i watched i found none to be world class
[12:46] <bimberi> ogra: you didn't see any of the Socceroo games then! :P
[12:48] <ogra> well, i watched germany<->argentinia ... italy<->ukraine and brazil<->france
[12:48] <ogra> neither was convincing ...
[12:48] <rodarvus> germany vs argentina was ok
[12:49] <rodarvus> "big" teams usually don't play beautiful football when playing against other big teams
[12:49] <ogra> yes, i didnt say it wasnt ok... but i'd have expected more from a "world championship"
[12:49] <rodarvus> it is believed that this could lead to a loss
[12:50] <ogra> i remember once i was brazil vs someone in a championship while zapping through the channels and i usualy never stop at sports, but it was so entertaining that i couldnt move on :)
[12:51] <ogra> s/was/saw/
[12:51] <cbx33> ogra: I can't see the kill button in any of the diffs
[12:51] <ogra> there was nothing like that yet in this championship
[12:51] <cbx33> I'll just create it
[12:51] <rodarvus> ogra, also, most brazilians blame it on the coach+players ego
[12:51] <cbx33> :D
[12:52] <cbx33> ogra: what's your opinion on the flag parameter I mentioned earlier?
[12:52] <rodarvus> we believe another coach, such as Felipe Scolari (current coach of the Portugal squad) could have made it a completely different team
[12:52] <ogra> cbx33, we'll need to decide how to implement it in tne ui then ...
[12:52] <cbx33> that's what I though
[12:52] <cbx33> i think below the process list might be the most sensible place
[12:52] <cbx33> then we have consistency with the disconnect button below the users
[12:53] <ogra> it's placement should visually indicate where it applies to
[12:54] <ogra> and not break the design too much ...
[12:54] <bimberi> rodarvus: that would be in the teams approach wouldn't it?  surely the players wouldn't change much - hi btw :)
[12:54] <cbx33> do you not think underneath the process list would?
[12:54] <ogra> rodarvus, but your coach won several championships already ... i bet he'd be capable :)
[12:55] <ogra> cbx33, sure i think under the processlist would ;)
[12:55] <cbx33> ok cool
[12:56] <rodarvus> bimberi, exactly
[12:57] <rodarvus> the main point is that Brazil never played as a "team", but instead, as a bunch of "starts"
[12:57] <ogra> well, you need to replace the players at some point
[12:57] <ogra> they get older ... no way around that
[12:57] <bimberi> rodarvus: stars or tarts ? ;P
[12:58] <rodarvus> ogra, that too :)
[01:00] <rodarvus> bimberi, tart == clown? (in this case, I agree :) )
[01:00] <Yagisan> tart ?
[01:00] <Yagisan> well, it's a desert, and a woman of loose morals down here
[01:00] <rodarvus> Yagisan, thats what wikipedia tells me too
[01:01] <bimberi> thankyou Yagisan, i was struggling to find the right words :)
[01:02] <bimberi> it's also used to describe someone (of any gender) who only does something if paid
[01:03] <Yagisan> I believe that paid variety has various names, but tart isn't one down here.
[01:06] <bimberi> that's why i was struggling
[01:07] <Yagisan> bimberi: I got good at trying to find other ways to describe things by marrying someone that is not a native speaker in my language.
[01:08] <Yagisan> works well (when we understand each other)
[01:09] <cbx33> hey Yagisan howz it going
[01:12] <Yagisan> cbx33: I seem to have caught a cold. Am mastering cmake, and divorcing doomsday and autotools.
[01:12] <Yagisan> cbx33: I also mets some motus in real life today
[01:12] <cbx33> cool
[01:13] <Yagisan> yes. I thought it was fascinating this place outside of IRC
[01:13] <ogra> highvoltage, your use cases need fleshing out ...
[01:13] <Yagisan> but I missed the nick highlighting when people mentioned me
[01:13] <ogra> highvoltage, * A poor school only has 5 old PIII machines, and needs to continue using these machines for an extended period.
[01:14] <ogra> highvoltage, add something like: they try edubuntu and find the xfce option, they install it and are happy (or something like that)
[01:14] <ogra> a use case should always be a positive thing solved by that spec in the end :)
[01:15] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks. good tip :)
[01:16] <cbx33> ogra: what about, they install it and go on a mad rampage to destroy Mircosoft
[01:16] <ogra> thats valid :)
[01:16] <cbx33> highvoltage: use that one, use that one :p
[01:16] <ogra> but you need to add positive bits :)
[01:16] <cbx33> hehehe
[01:17] <cbx33> the dark empire crumbles and linux reigns supreme
[01:17] <cbx33> ?
[01:17] <ogra>  they install it and out of blind happyness about opne source software they go on a mad rampage to destroy Mircosoft
[01:17] <cbx33> ahhh i see
[01:17] <cbx33> got all caught up in the destruction of proprietary kernels
[01:26] <cbx33> if a router uses a linux kernel
[01:26] <cbx33> they should display GPL license somewhere
[01:26] <Yagisan> yes, but often they don't
[01:28] <cbx33> I have a belkin router
[01:29] <cbx33> and It is definitely a nix system
[01:47] <highvoltage> cbx33: how can you tell?
[01:51] <cbx33> well, ok I can't if functions exactly like a nix system
[01:51] <cbx33> if you know what I mean
[01:51] <cbx33> from the work they have done it would beSTUPID to do develop it from scratch
[01:52] <cbx33> ogra: do you think the process should be sorted?
[01:52] <cbx33> and also do you think that the list should auto update?
[01:52] <ogra> yes it should auto update and it should be sorted by process number ...
[01:52] <cbx33> ok
[01:53] <cbx33> i didn't see it auto update
[01:53] <cbx33> what's the frequency?
[01:53] <cbx33> and I noticed the process list and user name etc stay after the user has been disconnected
[01:53] <ogra> oh, i thought aou saked about implementing that :)
[01:53] <ogra> *asked
[01:53] <ogra> *you
[01:53] <cbx33> ah....hehe
[01:54] <cbx33> so it "should" but doesn't currently
[01:54] <ogra> currently it only spills out the processes
[01:54] <ogra> it would be nice if we could have icons like gnome-system-monitor has
[01:54] <cbx33> i think having the pid in the list would be useful too
[01:54] <ogra> that would make the ui useless ...
[01:55] <cbx33> is it normal for gconfd to be orphaned?
[01:55] <cbx33> the user has been disconnected but the process still remains
[01:55] <ogra> imagine an arts teacher who just knows how to click stuff, he must understand and use it
[01:55] <cbx33> ok
[01:55] <ogra> dont confuse him with weird numbers
[01:56] <ogra> (if you feel its needed, we can make it an option you can switch on/off
[01:56] <ogra> )
[01:56] <cbx33> nah it's ok
[01:56] <cbx33> I see your point
[01:56] <ogra> but i see yours too :)
[01:56] <ogra> so it might be a good thing to have it optional
[01:56] <cbx33> well what about an advanced mode
[01:56] <cbx33> that turns some things on in the ui
[01:57] <cbx33> like a toggle button
[01:57] <cbx33> Simple/Advanced
[01:57] <ogra> we should at least have a set of options you can switch on or off ... i'm not a friend of discriminating users by telling them they are non advanced :)
[01:58] <cbx33> ok I see your point there
[01:58] <ogra> lets keep that stuff fro the plugin writers ;)
[01:58] <ogra> *for
[01:58] <cbx33> indeed
[01:58] <cbx33> pygi is doing the plugin framework
[01:58] <cbx33> isn't he?
[01:58] <ogra> we only want a basic app taht does what it should perfectly ...
[01:58] <ogra> i'm not talking about the framework :)
[01:58] <cbx33> no i know
[01:58] <cbx33> I was just askin
[01:58] <cbx33> g
[01:59] <ogra> feel free to write a plugin later that has an advanced/simple switch ;)
[01:59] <ogra> but yes, pygi volunteered for that
[02:00] <cbx33> I can see now how plugins would be mega easy for it
[02:00] <ogra> thats the plan :)
[02:02] <ogra> damn typos
[02:04] <cbx33> ogra: who is cleaning up what is already there?
[02:04] <cbx33> all three of us?
[02:05] <ogra> feel free to clean up where you find ugliness :)+
[02:05] <cbx33> heh not ugliness
[02:05] <ogra> i'll rename the branch these days to have a non versioned name btw ...
[02:05] <cbx33> just the host name/process list should be cleaned upon disconnecting a user
[02:06] <ogra> it does, no ?
[02:06] <cbx33> nope
[02:06] <cbx33> not here
[02:06] <cbx33> I just got a user to login and I disconnected them
[02:06] <ogra> running on a regular ubuntu ltsp ?
[02:06] <cbx33> but their name/host/proclist remained
[02:06] <cbx33> nope edubuntu
[02:07] <ogra> with the ubuntu ltsp package ??
[02:07] <cbx33> i er, this is a dapper edubuntu box
[02:07] <ogra> and a thin client ?
[02:07] <cbx33> yes
[02:07] <ogra> (note i never tested with vmware and am not particulary interested in that)
[02:08] <cbx33> nope this is real clients
[02:08] <ogra> well, the next polling of the userlist should clean up...
[02:08] <cbx33> ogra: tbph vmware should not have any bnearing on it at all
[02:08] <cbx33> ogra: ah, my last bug fix would fix it then
[02:08] <ogra> which means it should avnish withinn the next 5 secs or so from the UI after a user disconnected
[02:08] <cbx33> it's grumbling about the user variable again
[02:09] <cbx33> it was onyl one user after all
[02:09] <ogra> there is a function that refreshes in a given interval ...
[02:09] <cbx33> I'm gonna try again
[02:09] <ogra> poll#_userlist or something
[02:09] <cbx33> and apply my fix
[02:09] <DanielC> How do you make 'diff' produce output that can be used by 'patch' ?
[02:09] <ogra> sorry i cant discuss that now, we have a deadline for merges i have to do now
[02:10] <ogra> DanielC, diff -ruN oldfile newfile
[02:10] <DanielC> thanks
[02:10] <ogra> rodarvus, btw, how is X going ?
[02:10] <cbx33> sorry ogra
[02:10] <rodarvus> ogra, I'm researching all changes that are going to be needed (for the first step, at least), and writing a spec for it
[02:11] <rodarvus> I believe I'll have something palateable until the end of the day, tomorrow
[02:11] <rodarvus> (but by no means a "complete" spec)
[02:11] <rodarvus> the list of changes is huge
[02:11] <rodarvus> *huge*
[02:11] <ogra> cbx33, we have dedicated feature development time, all merges have to be done by jul 13th, after that i can concentrate on details of new features
[02:11] <cbx33> ogra: np
[02:12] <cbx33> I'll bug you in 10 days then
[02:12] <rodarvus> 25+ new packages and counting (and almost the same number of obsoleted packages)
[02:12] <ogra> rodarvus, yep, i expected that, i still wonder why we dont just go on maintaining our own packages
[02:12] <cbx33> ogra: is ther ea plan to put moin-desktop in edgy?
[02:13] <ogra> the are built upstream compatible, we would just have to renew the orig.tar.gz's and probably dol some minro changes
[02:13] <ogra> *they
[02:13] <rodarvus> maintaining our own X packages is insane, actually - even bigger work - Debian X packages are in a much better state than ours
[02:13] <rodarvus> switching to their packages, we will only need to worry about our own changes
[02:14] <ogra> sure, but ours were built by an upstream xorg guy who had in mind that they are as comaptible as possiblle to the upstream sources ...
[02:14] <ogra> indeed they were unmaintained over the half last release
[02:15] <rodarvus> thats daniels, right?
[02:15] <cbx33> ogra: as I'm finding bugs and things to do, should I put them on LP? or do we not use that for devel?
[02:15] <ogra> but apart from easier syncability i dont really see the advantage in syncing
[02:15] <ogra> yep
[02:16] <rodarvus> ogra, in theory, we'll have less trouble/work maintaining them in the future
[02:16] <ogra> cbx33, malone is the right place :)
[02:16] <cbx33> ok
[02:16] <ogra> rodarvus, well, that has to be proofed :)
[02:16] <rodarvus> :)
[02:17] <ogra> my theory was that we are nearer to upstream than debian ... so it would be easier to stay with upstream :)
[02:17] <ogra> but indeed that needs the manpower we dont have yet
[02:17] <rodarvus> ogra, I agree, but we have half (?) X maintainer - debian has four, or more :)
[02:18] <ogra> yep
[02:20] <ogra> finally xscreensaver built ...
[02:21] <ogra> will be fun to redo all the build deps again (i just did that in dapper, now all x lib names change again)
[02:22] <rodarvus> yep :/
[02:22] <rodarvus> it might happen that we are not even able to complete the job for edgy
[02:23] <rodarvus> really depends on the desired quality :D
[02:23] <ogra> well, we need to release with something working :)
[02:23] <rodarvus> haha
[02:23] <rodarvus> indeed
[02:23] <ogra> in some way or the other :)
[02:23] <rodarvus> at least just barely >:-)
[03:12] <jsgotangco> good evening
[03:13] <DanielC> yo
[03:18] <rodarvus> timezones are great stuff
[03:18] <rodarvus> its early morning down here :D
[03:18] <DanielC> It's early afternoon here :)
[03:21] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: rodrigo!
[03:22] <rodarvus> jsgotangco: jerome!
[03:23] <jsgotangco> how's things? how was your weekend?
[03:24] <rodarvus> cold :)
[03:24] <rodarvus> well, for us brazilians, at least
[03:26] <jsgotangco> nice
[03:30] <cbx33> ping Yagisan
[03:39] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: ping
[03:39] <rodarvus> jsgotangco, pong
[03:40] <jsgotangco> how do you feel rejecting abandoned bugs after making a follow up for xorg and company?
[03:40] <jsgotangco> :D
[03:40] <rodarvus> heh
[03:40] <jsgotangco> im serious
[03:40] <rodarvus> I was thinking about this subject this morning, actually
[03:40] <jsgotangco> :D
[03:41] <rodarvus> I know
[03:41] <jsgotangco> i made a couple of follow ups before paris no reply
[03:41] <jsgotangco> fabio said he does that all the time
[03:41] <rodarvus> I guess I'd just leave as needinfo for a while and reject them when a new version is released
[03:42] <jsgotangco> doh that would be like october!
[03:42] <rodarvus> ('please reopen if you find this bug in the new version')
[03:42] <jsgotangco> well yeah i would most likely say that in a rejection notice
[03:42] <rodarvus> jsgotangco, this bug was here before dapper?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> we get lots of bugs for milestone releases
[03:42] <jsgotangco> that usually get abandoned
[03:42] <rodarvus> if so, you can do it already, given enough time for the reporter to manifest
[03:43] <jsgotangco> the problem with needs info is that it can get smothered by the glut of bugs in xorg so it takes a while to sort it out
[03:45] <jsgotangco> some of them have been completely forgotten, i make a follow up and i get a reply that they sold the card or the laptop already :D
[03:47] <rodarvus> these cases are clearly candidates for rejection
[03:48] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:54] <DanielC> REVU sucks
[03:54] <jsgotangco> don't complain here
[03:54] <DanielC> I tried to upload something, it failed, and now I can't manage to use dcut to clarn it.
[03:54] <DanielC> :(
[04:26] <Yagisan> pong cbx33
[04:44] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[04:57] <Yagisan> !seen hedgemage
[04:57] <ubotu> I last saw HedgeMage (i=HedgeMag@freenode/staff/HedgeMage) 19h 12m 31s ago, quiting: "Real Life Calls!"
[04:58] <DanielC> cool
[04:58] <DanielC> !seen DanielC
[04:58] <ubotu> DanielC is on IRC right now!
[04:58] <Yagisan> I thought so too
[04:58] <DanielC> :)
[08:09] <highvoltage> ogra: i honestly don't know what else to add to the xfce spec, i put it up for review again
[08:10] <ogra> i saw that, lets see if the level of detail in the implementation/design suffices :)
[08:10] <highvoltage> yep :)
[08:11] <highvoltage> we're moving office this week, i can't wait until that's over, then i can finally get down to work again.
[08:12] <highvoltage> our new offices are at an ISP, and we are getting a 10mbit/s internet connection there, something that's unheard of in .za *g*
[08:15] <ogra> cool
[08:16] <highvoltage> two weeks from now i'm going to jo'burg, and then i'll get a chance to work on the diskless-fat-clients stuff.
[08:17] <highvoltage> i talked to jim and scott, and if possible, they will merge from my branch to ltsp upstream
[08:17] <highvoltage> it give me a good chance to get bzr figured out properly.
[08:17] <ogra> -> dinner
[08:17] <highvoltage> enjoy.
[08:27] <highvoltage> ogra: have you seen the post to edubuntu-users about seeing the thin client hostname on LDM?
[08:27] <juliux> hi everybody
[08:27] <highvoltage> that could perhaps be further functionality for ldmd
[08:27] <highvoltage> hi juliux
[08:27] <ogra> highvoltage, ldm already reads /etc7hostname ...
[08:27] <juliux> how are you highvoltage ?
[08:28] <ogra> we just need to make sure to set it right
[08:30] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, i think i grok. where does ldm get //ltsp from then? or is /etc/hostname not set correctly?
[08:31] <highvoltage> i should probably just investigate :)
[08:31] <highvoltage> juliux: i'm feeling good. how are you?
[08:31] <juliux> not good
[08:31] <ogra> /etc/hostname is set on boot
[08:31] <ogra> (of the client)
[08:32] <ogra> if there is a dns server and it can look up the name it will set it
[08:32] <ogra> iirc
[08:33] <highvoltage> hmmm... i'm not sure what to answer to Phillipe
[08:33] <highvoltage> i'm also getting all my edubuntu-users mail thrice, which is a bit annoying :/
[08:33] <highvoltage> ogra: did you get that password for that list?
[08:34] <ogra> i have it since the list is public ... i wanted to set a new one in paris and share it with you ...
[08:34] <ogra> sinc ethats only a hash ... no password you could remember ...
[08:38] <highvoltage> ok, could you possibly check my subscription? i think i might be susbcribed more than once with different addresses.
[08:38] <highvoltage> and sorry to bother you with different things all at once. :)
[09:19] <Laser_away> highvoltage: still around?
[09:34] <DanielC> Laser_away: I've uploaded my first .deb to Revu :)
[09:36] <Laser_away> cool
[09:36] <DanielC> I hope I did it right.
[09:36] <DanielC> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2587
[09:37] <crimsun> version it -0ubuntu1
[09:37] <DanielC> Ok.
[09:37] <crimsun> I presume you want it in Debian, too
[09:37] <DanielC> I'd like that, yes.
[09:38] <DanielC> Does -0 mean that it's not in Debian yet?
[09:38] <crimsun> in which case it's probably better to concentrate your effort to get it into Debian, since we can just sync
[09:38] <crimsun> generally yes.
[09:41] <DanielC> Do I need to run both "debuild -S" and "debuild"? Or just "debuild -S"?
[09:41] <crimsun> I always use -S
[09:41] <Laser_away> debuild -S gives you the source package
[09:41] <DanielC> ok
[09:41] <crimsun> then I either sbuild or pbuild
[09:42] <DanielC> What's a source package anyways?
[09:42] <DanielC> Considering that this package is not compilable code.
[09:46] <Laser_away> Burgwork: well, I still don't know how this is going to work, tbh the KDE stuff kinda got in the way
[09:47] <EmxBA> hi everyone
[09:47] <EmxBA> I've finnaly got some time to talk on IRC :)
[09:47] <Laser_away> Burgwork: I think we will probably ship sabayon profiles provided that sabayon is fixed and we can get it to use groups
[09:48] <EmxBA> hi pygi!
[11:56] <Burgwork> LaserJock, ok
[11:56] <Burgwork> highvoltage, ping re: edubuntu case study