[21:13] <reillybrogan> I'm looking at the mantic kernel tree for 6.3 and I notice that the LSM stacking patches by Casey Schaufler are not present (git log v6.3.3..Ubuntu-6.3.0-4.4 --reverse and then searching the output). I'm wondering why this is the case, doesn't this imply that snaps are unconfined on mantic or did something else change to make it not necessary anymore?


[00:20] <amurray> blahdeblah: yeah true - so it sounds like it would definitely be worth trying to make systemd-networkd more nuanced in some way (either limiting restarts only when it is really needed somehow or like rbasak  said making it at least integrate with needsrestart and then having it not autorestart)


[01:45] <micahg> Sweetshark: have you seen Bug #1062757 ?
[01:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062757 in libreoffice "No menu bar under GNOME Shell & gnome-classic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062757
[07:50] <Sweetshark> micahg: not yet, but: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/gitweb?p=core.git;a=commit;h=e1ca9ecd43db2256739d2d710823acdd51ca5777
[17:51] <caycep> does vmbuilder fail w/ "invoke-rc.d" errors for anyone?
[17:52] <caycep> trying to build a ubuntu precise amd64 vm
[20:34] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Are you there?
[21:18] <Sweetsha1k> micahg: Yes. I just uploaded a 0ubuntu2 package with fixes for bug 1062757, bug 1062812 and a workaround for the armel/armhf ftbfs to chinstrap.
[21:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062757 in libreoffice "No menu bar under GNOME Shell & gnome-classic" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062757
[21:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062812 in libreoffice "libreoffice 3.6.2 crash clicking on charts/formulas" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062812
[21:21] <micahg> Sweetsha1k: great, thanks, unfortunately, I don't have to review/sponsor today, maybe robert_ancell can help?
[21:21] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, micahg can do - this just needs uploading to main?
[21:22] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: review and upload to main ...
[21:22] <robert_ancell> yeah that too :)
[21:23] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, do you have a PPA built version?
[21:24] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: no. Just a local pbuilder build, and an armel build running on scheat.
[21:24] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: I could upload the amd64 debs if you are adventurous ...
[21:25] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: maybe I walk you through the three changes?
[21:27] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, the changes look good to me, few whitespace changes there to confuse me though :)
[21:28] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: are they in the unitymenus.diff patch?
[21:28] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/gitweb?p=core.git;a=blobdiff;f=vcl/unx/gtk/window/gtkframe.cxx;h=7e944c64444369a3430ff7e3915b360f2c683648;hp=3a8a79ef41296643ee6978531f138d665c9c1ed1;hb=e1ca9ecd43db2256739d2d710823acdd51ca5777;hpb=7ffc24eb76325afef89c25e8a7fe13124ed5a041
[21:32] <Sweetsha1k> yep, antonio is rather careless with whitespace/formatting on there. Having a true minimal patch would make review nicer for sure. I always postponed hinting at that, as we are essentially in emergency mode since a month ...
[21:33] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, ok, I'm ok with the changes - do you have a packaging update?
[21:33] <robert_ancell> and I guess the bug needs to be made FFE compliant?
[21:36] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: I give then some ffe treatment ...
[21:36] <Sweetsha1k> s/I/Ill/
[21:51] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: done.
[21:56] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, where are the packaging changes?
[22:02] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: huh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess doesnt say anything about packaging changes, just upstream ChangeLogs/BuildLogs.
[22:02] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, oh, who is packaging this then?
[22:03] <robert_ancell> I'm just reviewing and uploading right?
[22:04] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: ah ;) , you find the package signed and packed on chinstrap in my home.
[22:04] <robert_ancell> can you upload to the bug?
[22:05] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: sure, which one? I hope, I dont need to triple upload that one?
[22:06] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: I would suggest bug 1062812 -- its the critical one.
[22:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062812 in libreoffice "libreoffice 3.6.2 crash clicking on charts/formulas" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062812
[22:07] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, oh, I didn't see that second bug
[22:08] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, you have the ubuntu packaging in debian git?
[22:09] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: yes.
[22:10] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, you crazy libreoffice people
[22:11] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: having it in bzr when debian uses git would only make merging even worse ...
[22:11] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, so how do I check out and build a source package?
[22:17] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: well, the packaging is still on bzr by launchpad so you can use that. But if you want to create the packaging from scratch, you would: 1/ create a dir 2/ clone the packaging to debian/ 3/ do ./debian/rules get-orig-sources USE_GIT_TARBALLS=y -- that would create your own tarballs from upstream git ...
[22:17] <Sweetsha1k> (and unpack them)
[22:17] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, ok I'm completely confused now. What method do you expect me to sign and upload these changes?
[22:17] <robert_ancell> ...to use to sign...
[22:24] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: well, usually seb128 or pitti just pickup the package (with *.debian.tar.gz *.dsc *.changes and orig-tarballs) that I dump on chinstrap.
[22:25] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, can you put that link into the bug report then?
[22:26] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, what is your chinstrap login?
[22:26] <Sweetsha1k> bjoern
[22:27] <Sweetsha1k> ... so: ls ls /home/bjoern/libreoffice_3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu2*
[22:27] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, but the git repo says it should be -0ubuntu3 right?
[22:28] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f4e76f6fb0e0d2988729b9c89260e3243eefb2d
[22:30] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: btw, now that I almost understand the insanity of LO packaging, I am hoping to kill/rewrite it from scratch: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-reboot-libreoffice-packaging wouldnt have dared that earlier.
[22:31] <robert_ancell> yay!
[22:32] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, is chinstrap barely useable slow from Germany?
[22:32] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: im usure were the ubuntu3 in the changelog came from, prolly a dch fumble.
[22:33] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: thanks for enduring this btw ;)
[22:33] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, man, I feel for you having to do this all the time
[22:34] <TheMuso> A libreoffice pload was accepted into proposed recently too.
[22:34] <robert_ancell> hmm, can't run debsign on chinstrap, how to sign changes?
[22:34] <TheMuso> I know debsign supports remote signing, don't know how to use it though.
[22:35] <Laney> debsign -r foo@bar:/path/to/baz.changes
[22:35] <TheMuso> Ah that simple. Cool!
[22:36] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: as for 'doing this all the time' -- most of it is running in scripts in a local jenkins, too errorprone otherwise
[22:37] <robert_ancell> Laney, that is a very odd feature
[22:37] <Laney> I find it quite useful
[22:37] <Sweetsha1k> .oO(signature beaming)
[22:37] <Laney> like when I do packages on beefy cloud instances, you can just sign them remotely
[22:38] <robert_ancell> um, so now I have it signed but I can't dput it from chinstrap as it doesn't have my key to verify
[22:39] <Laney> does it have gpg installed?
[22:40] <Laney> you should just be able to --recv-keys your key there if so
[22:41]  * Laney goes to bed. goodnight, future people for whom it is half way through the next day already
[22:43] <robert_ancell> Laney, later, thansk
[22:46] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: as for chinstrap speed, IIRC its decent ~2MB/s ...
[22:47] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: dunno if seb/pitti dputted from chinstrap somehow or downloaded from there.
[22:48] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, yeah, I'm just downloading the whole thing now
[22:50] <Sweetsha1k> robert_ancell: its 00:47am here, if you have no urgent question about the mess anymore, I would mark myself as away and walk off for the night.
[22:50] <robert_ancell> Sweetsha1k, no prob, go to bed! I'll get it sorted
[22:50] <Sweetsha1k> and thanks again ;)
[23:17]  * robert_ancell scratches his head. libreoffice_3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu2 was uploaded 1 hour ago by seb128 according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu2
[23:22] <bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, maybe he sleep-uploads?
[23:23] <robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, I would not be suprised
[23:23] <TheMuso> Bearing in mind that the upload had to be approved...
[23:23] <TheMuso> SO maybe the timestamps get changed when its approved... I dunno.
[23:23]  * TheMuso checks quantal-changes...
[23:27] <ogra_> robert_ancell, it was uploaded to -proposed, someone just moved it to the release archive 1h ago
[23:28] <ogra_> s/archive/pocket/


[13:15] <manusheel> lfaraone: Hi Luke.
[13:15] <manusheel> Around?
[13:25] <manusheel> lfaraone: Luke, is this a good time to talk?
[13:36] <lfaraone> manusheel: sorry, I was at my school's counsoling office.
[13:37] <manusheel> lfaraone: No worries.
[13:37] <manusheel> lfaraone: How did testing Sugar via ppa come along?
[13:37] <lfaraone> manusheel: I wasn't able to get anything accomplished yesterday since our teachers increased our homework load in the wake of finishing our testing period. I'll have more time today and tomorrow, but on Thursday and Friday I'll be at a science symposium in middle-Virginia where I may not have internet access.
[13:38] <lfaraone> manusheel: I did start investigating the tools for automating the bootstrapping of a VM, and determined that the only viable way at this point is to do it manually.
[13:39] <manusheel> lfaraone: Thank you for informing. It is unfortunate that we cannot automate the bootstrapping of a VM.
[13:40] <manusheel> lfaraone: Can you document the manual process? Please add screenshots wherever necessary. Will help us scale things, and avoid repetition for members, who join us later this year.
[13:42] <lfaraone> manusheel: Sure.
[13:44] <manusheel> lfaraone: Great. Also, please update the documentation on maintaining packages considering Jonas's reviews.
[13:44] <lfaraone> manusheel: Yes, I will.
[13:46] <manusheel> lfaraone: Great. Wish if you could send me an e-mail when we complete doing both these activities.
[13:48] <lfaraone> manusheel: Okay.
[13:51] <manusheel> lfaraone: We'll start examining the Sugar via ppa once we have the VM setup.
[13:51] <manusheel> lfaraone: I am planning that we should have the set of issues ready with us by May 31.
[13:52] <manusheel> lfaraone: We'll then start fixing the issues, and ask the QA team to test them one by one systematically.
[13:55] <lfaraone> manusheel: sounds good.
[14:11] <manusheel> lfaraone: Neat. I'll look forward to your memo. Have a nice day.
[23:46] <jelkner> lfaraone, are you here?
[23:46] <jelkner> i want to file some bugs
[23:46] <jelkner> so jamie can get to work on turtleart
[23:47] <jelkner> they are bugs against the ubuntu package
[23:47] <jelkner> and i'd like to file them on launchpad
[23:47] <jelkner> doesn't seem like i can do that


[22:07] <hardwire> Trying to build core22 custom base via LXD (on aarch64) and getting:
[22:07] <hardwire> The 'LXD' provider does not support base 'core22'
[22:07] <hardwire> I've had a hard time understanding the derived paths and repository remotes being used since lxc list images/ubuntu: has no "coreXX" anything.
[22:07] <hardwire> Happy to create a local core22 build image if there are steps.
[22:16] <hardwire> remote build is working.  That will have to do for now.


[00:31] <cprofitt> doctormo, do you have those NY links again...
[00:31] <cprofitt> want to show them to other members of the team
[01:31] <doctormo> cprofitt: of course
[01:31] <doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/nyloco
[22:14] <Raidsong> gonzolively, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1052065 this is the link to the book
[22:15] <Raidsong> well its the link to the link to the book
[23:19] <Buuntu> does this channel have like daily classes or how exactly does it work?
[23:19] <Raidsong> i think its bi-weekly
[23:25] <cprofitt> this is a channel for meetings
[23:25] <cprofitt> and team discussions
[23:25] <cprofitt> the training happens in other channels and will happen on a Moodle site as well.
[23:31] <Buuntu> so where could I go to actively learn stuff?  Not really anything in particular
[23:32] <Buuntu> I'm pretty new to Ubuntu and I would like to know some important stuff to be able to fix my own issues and such


[03:52] <lino> s
[05:16] <rtn0> hi all
[05:17] <rtn0> how can i rename more than one file, via some sort of regex?
[05:17] <rtn0> for example, if i have "file 1.txt" and "file 2.txt", both in the same dir, but i want to rename them by replacing the spaces in the filenames with underscores _, then how would I most efficiently go about it?
[05:17] <rtn0> (so they would now be file_1.txt and file_2.txt. this is what i am trying to do.)
[05:17] <rtn0> is there a command line command for that?
[05:17] <rtn0> thx in advance.
[05:27] <krytarik> rtn0: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/rename/rename.1.en.html
[05:28] <rtn0> krytarik: kay thx.
[05:29] <krytarik> Yeah, I've just noticed you also posted it in #lubuntu, and got the same pointer there..
[05:35] <rtn0> SOLVED.
[05:35] <rtn0> guiverc's advice worked.
 Hello again, i switched back to kubuntu 19.10 and after i did built my project and tried to reboot i got xsession warning unable to write to /tmp
 Clicking on okay does not do anything
 And also can not boot into recovery mode
[07:52] <TheMetamorphosis> Hello, I'm looking for a software to merge PDF files.
[08:43] <lordievader> TheMetamorphosis: you are looking for pdftk https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
[10:06] <me_> Morning all, can anyone explain why I get these errors on Kubuntu 20.04(5 or 6 every couple of minutes) CTRL-EVENT-SIGNAL-CHANGE above=1 signal=-68 noise=9999 txrate=104000.  I don't get these errors on Kubuntu 18.04 using the exact same harware.
[11:44] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[12:13] <BluesKaj> @Arthur 張 think kdeconnect uses wifi on linux
[12:24] <BluesKaj> no, my phone links with my ethernet connected pc thru the router using kdeconnect
[12:25] <BluesKaj> wifi conects the phone to the router then to the pc from there, whether it's wifi or ethernet shouldn't matter
[12:26] <BluesKaj> as long as you aren't connected to a vpn on either device
[12:35] <BluesKaj> yes, I've tried to use blurtooth a few times, but wasn't successful. Guess i should have done more research on that, but kdeconnect works so i didn't bother
[12:36] <acer> what is the best forum for Kubuntu
[12:36] <acer> I want to start helping out.
[12:37] <acer> I have been using Kubuntu since 10.04.  I am an active contributor on AskUbuntu
[12:37] <acer> But am not sure how to contribute to Kubuntu my favorite
[12:44] <BluesKaj> acer, that depends how you want to contribute, but #kubuntu-devel chat is a good place to start.
[12:47] <acer> OK  I will try.  I am not a developer but have been using Kubuntu for 10 years.
[12:59] <krt805> Does anyone knows if KDE 5.19 will be available on Kubuntu point release ? Asking because 5.19 seems much more polished than 5.18.4
[13:04] <RikMills> krt805: 20.04 has 5.18.5 not 5.18.4. It will not get 5.19 as only bugfix updates are allowed in the archive
[13:05] <RikMills> plus 5.19 needs a newer Qt version that is in 20.04, but that is not why it can't happen
[13:05] <krt805> it's not LTS right ?
[13:05] <krt805> I mean 5.19
[13:06] <RikMills> krt805: 5.19 is a new feature release, not a bugfix one. LTS or not doesn't come into it for that
[13:06] <BluesKaj> krt805, https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[13:07] <RikMills> BluesKaj: that will not get 5.19 either, due to Qt
[13:07] <BluesKaj> RikMills, ok, my apologies
[13:08] <RikMills> what is permitted as updates in the archive is described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[13:08] <krt805> @RikMills, Thanks.
[13:10] <RikMills> krt805: we might do some test builds in another PPA with newer Qt somewhere at some point, but it is a VERY low priority and would not be supported even in the limited fashion our backports PPA is
[13:10] <RikMills> at the moment I am trying hard to get 5.19 into 20.10!
[13:11] <RikMills> which is a pain as requires new stuff from KDE to be reviewed by archive admins, which is a slow job
[13:11] <BluesKaj> RikMills, let me know when you're successful, on 20.10 here too
[13:12] <RikMills> BluesKaj: I have it in a ppa for 20.10. just waiting for the 2 new sources to be reviewed by the powers that be before I can upload to the main archive
[13:13] <BluesKaj> the backports ppa ?
[13:14] <BluesKaj> RikMills,^
[13:14] <RikMills> BluesKaj: staging-plasma. backports can't exist for the dev release!
[13:14] <RikMills> 5.19.2 will also land in there tomorrow
[13:15] <BluesKaj> ok, staging it is, I'll add it  but comment it for now
[13:16] <RikMills> it seems to work ok here in a VM, but yes, caution required
 Can't remember if I asked, but is there chance for Kubuntu, KDE framework to use snaps for desktop components ?
[13:18] <BluesKaj> done
[13:21] <RikMills> krt805: all things are possible, but in the reasonably short term, not much chance at all
 I'm asking because of transactional updates\rollbacks snaps provide by design. It would be good to be able to update QT and Plasma, and roll them back without breaking a system
[13:23] <RikMills> closest was an experimental plasma snap done a while back. it was not much useable
[13:23] <RikMills> https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Snap
[13:25] <krt805> RikMills It's 3 years old, which means that snaps may be not good enough for this purpose
[13:25] <krt805> or were at that point
[13:26] <RikMills> I don't really do much with snaps, but I have not seen much to suggest that has changed
[14:12] <BluesKaj> RikMills, I took a chance on the staging ppa and fully upgraded to 5.19 even with some held back packages , All seems well so far, but reinserted the comment on the the ppa just in case other stuff breaks the system.
[14:26] <UltimatePowerNoo> Hello, could I get some help with my flickering screen? There is some flickering on the login screen, after I login. I've tried to disable compisitor, and with compositor on, I've tried three different renderers: OpenGL 2 and 3, and Xrender
[14:26] <UltimatePowerNoo> System: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H3K4YSVgBj/
[14:27] <UltimatePowerNoo> Logs: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kXwG5JgPGx/
[14:31] <UltimatePowerNoo> Nevermind, gotta go, I'll post on the forum
[16:10] <krt805> RikMills, Is there any chance to see EFI setup support in Ubiquity installer any time soon ?
[16:48] <GSMarquis77> Durang@235
[16:48] <GSMarquis77> Has anyone seen him?
[16:50] <GSMarquis77> Please excuse me I am in the wrong channel for him.
[17:29] <brijesh> hello
 Has anyone 5.19 on kubuntu?
 I have backports still it doesn't show
[20:29] <mparillo> There are a couple  of new components that need to be added to the repos, and then it should be available for you to test http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/413/builds/215311/testcases
[20:30] <amir__> hey
 @mythio, 5.19 needs a new Qt version than the one available on Ubuntu 20.04 so it's not as easy as usual to launch the new Plasma Desktop version in the Backports PPA. If I had to guess, I'd say that 5.19 will probably not be available for 20.04 and Ubuntu 20.10 will directly ship with Plasma 5.19. I just hope that it will be easier to Backport 5.20 since it will be released around the same time as Ubuntu 20.10.
[23:15] <ceibal> hola
[23:16] <ceibal__> como estais


[16:29] <jacobiyah> hello there, anybody have a quickfix for the lubuntu light locker settings?
[16:29] <jacobiyah> lubuntu light locker settings issue, where settings do not stay


[06:52] <fabo> Riddell: I took master initially. the released versions are coming from nm09 branch
[06:53] <fabo> next version (0.9.1) will need new build deps
[08:18] <jussi> Riddell: I invited you somewhere, please join
[10:42] <tsdgeos> Riddell: who do i poke about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/911165 ?
[10:50] <Riddell> tsdgeos: didrocks added that stuff I think
[10:51] <tsdgeos> ECIRCULARDEPENDENCY
[10:51] <tsdgeos> :D
[10:51] <tsdgeos> Riddell: he pointed me to you
[10:51] <Riddell> uh oh
[10:52] <Riddell> he backported it from qt trunk so I guess he could blame fregl
[10:52] <didrocks> well, I think that Riddell is now back the Qt maintainer :)
[10:53] <didrocks> didn't look at the bug in particular
[10:53]  * didrocks opens
[10:53] <tsdgeos> Riddell: i don't want to blame anyone, i just want it fixed, i can fix it myself i guess if that's what you want
[10:54] <didrocks> maybe that's what makes a lot of kde apps crashing if accessibility is enableld
[10:54] <didrocks> enabled*
[10:56] <Riddell> I won't be able to look to that today anyway
[10:56] <fregl> tsdgeos: should be initialized to false in the ctor of QDeclarativeItemPrivate
[10:56] <tsdgeos> fregl: makes sense
[10:57] <fregl> interesting though, let me check our repo
[11:01] <fregl> tsdgeos: src/declarative/graphicsitems/qdeclarativeitem_p.h needs isAccessible(0) in the ctor indeed.
[11:03] <tsdgeos> fregl: isAccessible(false) ?
[11:03] <fregl> tsdgeos: it's bit flags, so should be 0
[11:03] <tsdgeos> fregl: ok
[11:05] <fregl> tsdgeos: your patches come from here: https://gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/accessibility I just pushed the fix you found it will take an  hour to show up in public
[11:05] <tsdgeos> fregl: cheers
[11:06] <fregl> Riddell: tsdgeos: if one of you wants to do me a favor, check what the state of https://gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/accessibility is and check that you have all patches from the 4.8-a11y branch for your qt 4.8 and maybe also test run with kde apps and the latest bride which should work quite nice now
[11:10] <Riddell> debfx: we should do this as part of packaging 4.8
[13:59] <tsdgeos> how big is lp:ubuntu/oneiric/qt4-x11 ?
[13:59] <tsdgeos> been downloading for almost three hours now
[13:59] <tsdgeos> 1815865kB
[14:01] <ScottK> That one will be big.  It's full source plus the packaging.
[14:02] <apol> O.o
[14:02] <ScottK> tsdgeos: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qt will have just the packaging (including patches).
[14:02] <ScottK> That may be sufficient for you and be much smaller.
[14:02] <tsdgeos> doh
[14:03]  * tsdgeos kills bzr
[14:04] <tsdgeos> ScottK: what's the proper way to change a patch in qt?
[14:05] <ScottK> The way I would do it (which may or may not be proper - I'm a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to the new fancy ways of doing things) would be:
[14:05] <ScottK> 1.  apt-get source qt4-x11
[14:06] <ScottK> 2.  quilt pop (repeat as needed) until the patch I wanted to change was on top.
[14:06] <ScottK> 3.  Make the changes I wanted in the source tree.
[14:06] <ScottK> 4.  Quilt refresh.
[14:06] <ScottK> 5. quilt push -a to reapply all the other patches and make sure I didn't mess up patches later in the series.
[14:07] <ScottK> Something like that.
[14:08] <tsdgeos> but then i need to commit/suggest a merge somewhere
[14:09] <ScottK> Then you can diff the debian directory against the one in the bzr branch I gave you.
[14:10] <tsdgeos> make sense
[14:10] <ScottK> That'll give you a patch you can apply to bzr and then (with a debian/changelog entry) be something you can push)
[14:10] <ScottK> or hand someone the patch to apply.
[14:10] <ScottK> (either way works)
[14:35] <tsdgeos> ScottK: : https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qt contains what is in precise, what do i do to get what is in oneiric?
[14:36] <tsdgeos> fregl: that patch gives the warning of wrong order initialization/declaration
[14:37] <ScottK> What I would do then is just get the oneiric package, make your changes as above (with a new debian/changelog entry), dpkg-buildpackage -S to make a new source package and then use debdiff to make a patch.
[14:37] <ScottK> Don't worry about bzr for that, I think it's more trouble than it's worth.
[14:37] <fregl> tsdgeos: right. I only did it properly for qt5 where it was also broken...
[14:38] <tsdgeos> fregl: ok
[14:38] <fregl> tsdgeos: that repo is highly broken/experimental etc
[14:38] <tsdgeos> ok
[20:53] <ScottK> KDE 4.8 rc2 tarballs starting to appear for packagers.
[21:30] <Riddell> ScottK: that'll keep me busy tomorrow :)
[21:31] <ScottK> :-)


[00:06] <luigi_panache> Can anyone here help me get my server back online?
[00:40] <Macer> do you see the interface at all with ifconfig -a?
[00:41] <Macer> oh
[00:41] <Macer> he left
[00:51] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #774541 in postfix (main) "package postfix 2.8.2-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 75" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774541
[01:05] <Vhozard> hi guys, i have a lil question
[01:08] <Vhozard> anyone know the ram usage of a fresh server install (no extras) ?
[02:03] <onecrazycat> conf.d  -  what is the "official" purpose of this directory?  I've been using Ubuntu for a few years now and I've noticed it in what seems like a lot of config directories under /etc/
[02:11] <jmarsden> onecrazycat: Usually, it allows easy addition of config information by adding a file to it, rather than by editing an existing single config file.  A set of packages can collaborate on configuration more easily this way.
[02:17] <qman__> yes, it effectively works like a single config file
[02:18] <qman__> so, instead of /etc/example.conf being one huge file full of directives, you have /etc/example.conf.d with several files, splitting it up for ease of use
[02:18] <qman__> but the software loads it together
[04:00] <tsrk> Is there any way to do unattended distribution upgrades?
[04:34] <edu_mix07> hi very good at all I have a question "ubuntu server" will be good for
[04:34] <edu_mix07> work with sendmail .. as a mail server ... or you will know if it is comfortable
[04:34] <edu_mix07> to work with sendmail ...
[04:36] <jmarsden> edu_mix07: You can run sendmail, qmail or postfix just fine on Ubuntu server.  Use whichever MTA you are familiar with.
[05:10] <luigi_panache> Hi, all. I upgraded from maverick to natty and now my message of the day isn't working properly. Can anyone help?
[05:35] <ejv> anyone know why my ubuntu server, upon login over ssh, displays not one, but TWO "welcome message blocks" ?
[05:44] <MagicFab> ejv, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/670392 ?
[05:44] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 670392 in ubuntu "Double motd after upgrade to 10.10 (dup-of: 659738)" [Undecided,New]
[05:44] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 659738 in sysvinit "Duplicate welcome message in motd" [Medium,Fix released]
[05:53] <ejv> im using lts
[05:53] <ejv> but yea, that's it
[07:43] <jgould> I, for reasons known only to me, decided to install the xubuntu-desktop meta package on my server.  It doesn't really run that well on my server hardware, so I want to remove it now.  the catch is that it installed stuff that removing the xubutu-desktop package (and then doing an apt-get autoremove) hasn't removed.  any ideas on how to get my server install back to the way it was before I did this?
[07:43] <ONEZEROZEROONE01> reinstall the server
[07:44] <jgould> that's what I thought the answer was going to be.  How is 11.04 server?
[07:44] <ONEZEROZEROONE01> i dont know
[07:47] <jgould> I think I'll stick with 10.04 LTS then.  is there anything special I'm going to need to do permissions wise to my home and srv directories after the reinstall to make them work correctly again?
[07:48] <_ruben> jgould: apt-get autoremove *should* clean up all unneeded dependencies
[07:48] <_ruben> ymmv, doesnt always work flawlessly for me
[07:49] <jgould> dpkg -l lists a lot of stuff that was installed with the meta package that won't work with out it
[07:49] <_ruben> i usualy just copy/paste the list of packages that apt-get install outputs for later reference :)
[07:49] <jgould> Now that, is an idea...
[07:51] <_ruben> also, /var/log/dkpkg/ might hold some hints regarding earlier installs
[07:51] <_ruben> dpkg even
[07:51] <_ruben> im typing like shit today
[07:55] <jgould> ok... dpkg.log would be useful if it wasn't 7 billion packages... heh
[07:57] <jmarsden> jgould: Use grep and your knowledge of when you installed xubuntu-desktop to find the relevant few tens of packages.
[08:08] <jgould> or, use the database at packages.ubuntu.com and list what was installed...
[08:15] <jgould> I'm going to resinstall... I'm too afraid that I'm going to break something and not be able to fix it and then have to reinstall again anyway...
[08:16] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #774676 in postfix (main) "package postfix (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script was killed by signal (Segmentation fault)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774676
[08:18] <genii-around> Does the bot show all bugs or does it have some rudimentary sorting for instance and only show some like "confirmed" or so?
[08:34] <jgould> is there an easy way to do an install via ssh?  I'm comfy on the couch and don't really want to fool with hovering over my server.
[08:42] <genii-around> jgould: Probably debootstrap or so then
[08:43] <genii-around> (  if the target machine has connedctivity )
[08:46] <jgould> I'm half done with it now.  I use a lot of default settings
[08:58] <atdprhs> Hello everyone, I need support in my ubuntu server which i found later that it has been disconnected by itself while ago
[08:58] <atdprhs> I checked around and I found out that my eth0 is not managed
[08:58] <atdprhs> how and what does that mean?
[08:59] <atdprhs> is there any idea?
[08:59] <atdprhs> anyone?
[09:00] <atdprhs> plz?
[09:02] <atdprhs> anyone here?
[09:05] <atdprhs> Hello
[09:06] <airtonix> is there a terminal like tilda that lets me split the window like terminator does ?
[09:07] <talntid> screen
[09:07] <atdprhs> Hello talntid
[09:07] <talntid> allows you to slit screens :)
[09:11] <airtonix> talntid: i don't think screen lets you do what terminator does. i already use it (and byobu)
[09:11] <airtonix> screen is also not a terminal emulator like tilda or terminator.
[09:13] <atdprhs> Is there anyone here to help me?
[09:17] <airtonix> atdprhs: sounds like you're using ubuntu desktop. because that's an error reported by network-manager (which ubuntu-server doesn't include)
[09:19] <airtonix> atdprhs: in any case, you edit the /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf and change 'managed' to true
[09:19] <airtonix> atdprhs: it's not a desired thing to do, since network manager should have already picked up your devices and taken over.
[09:21] <genii-around> I believe whenever the /etc/network/interfaces file is manually altered, the GUI network manager leaves those intact and defers to the settings there and then just reports interface as "unmanaged"
[09:45] <atdprhs> I'm using
[09:45] <atdprhs> hello genii-around
[09:45] <atdprhs> i'm using ubuntu server
[09:46] <atdprhs> and there is someone I spoke to from kubuntu told me to remove network manager cuz its not supposed to be there to manage since I did the bad mistake using GUI on Ubuntu server
[09:52] <RoyK> atdprhs: that is correct, what genii-around said is wrong
[10:00] <atdprhs> Thanks Royk!
[10:01] <Macer> hm
[10:01] <Macer> well... almost done moving all this server stuff around
[10:02] <Macer> hm
[10:03] <Macer> you have to love how efnet still requires identd :)
[10:12] <Macer> well. you can tell a quad core opteron 205 based system sure does put my artigo's via C7/1GHz box to shame :)
[10:12] <Macer> 285
[10:23] <atdprhs> RoyK
[10:23] <atdprhs> can you help me?
[10:24] <atdprhs> RoyK: are you here?
[10:26] <Macer> well.. my works is done here for now... all i need are some hotswap bays for it and it is complete.. hopefully i can get a few hundred days of runtime out of it after i do that
[10:27] <Macer> i'm curious as to how well nvraid will adapt to a hard drive breaking :)
[10:28] <Macer> i don't even know if nvraid lets you hotswap
[10:51]  * RoyK is
[10:52] <atdprhs> Royk: Are you here?
[10:53] <RoyK> sure, but if you have a problem, please ask about it...
[10:53] <RoyK> then perahps I or someone else can help you
[10:55] <atdprhs> okayz
[10:55] <atdprhs> well, I'm in Ubuntu server which I made a huge by installing GUI on it
[10:55] <atdprhs> anyways
[10:55] <atdprhs> Someone is still helping me but we took very on that issue
[10:56] <atdprhs> I removed the NetworkManager to avoid it from disconnected my ubuntu server which made the server say that that device eth0 is unmanaged
[10:56] <atdprhs> but I can't put it back to be managed by ubuntu server to be connected to the internet
[10:57] <RoyK> edit /etc/network/interfaces and set the IP there
[10:57] <RoyK> then run /etc/init.d/networking restart
[10:58] <atdprhs> there is nothing to edi
[10:58] <atdprhs> edit
[10:58] <atdprhs> auto lo
[10:58] <atdprhs> iface lo inet loopback
[10:58] <atdprhs> auto eth0
[10:59] <RoyK> !pastebin
[10:59] <atdprhs> I can't paste
[10:59] <atdprhs> because the server is not connected to the internet
[10:59] <RoyK> atdprhs: man interfaces
[11:01] <atdprhs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601673/
[11:02] <RoyK> looks good
[11:02] <RoyK> now restart networking
[11:04] <atdprhs> okayz
[11:04] <atdprhs> wait
[11:04] <atdprhs> give me 2 min. sorry
[11:04]  * RoyK isn't in a hurry
[11:06] <EricHRoosendaal> hi
[11:07] <atdprhs> let me restart my router
[11:07] <atdprhs> it could be the router
[11:10] <atdprhs> brb
[11:13] <atdprhs> I got it worked Royk :D
[11:13] <RoyK> :)
[11:16] <atdprhs> :-)
[12:19] <maxagaz> hi
[12:23] <maxagaz> I have run "ssh -D 9998 user@server", then set firefox proxy settings to localhost:9998 and set (in Firefox) network.proxy.socks_remote_dns to TRUE in the about:config, but I can't access to the web then
[12:23] <maxagaz> what's wront in my config ?
[12:24] <maxagaz> also, I'm connected directly to the internet without any firewall
[12:24] <maxagaz> is there something not well configured on the server side (lucid) or on the desktop side (natty)
[12:24] <maxagaz> ?
[12:42] <RoyK> hi all. I have a machine I want to use to control an open hotspot - I want to allow people access, but still tell them everything is logged before they get through the initial barrier. any idea if software exists for this? I guess using arptables/iptables may be possible, but then, if something exists already, that'll be easier...
[12:59] <jaundice> anyone have any insight as to why a xen 4.0.1 hvm ubuntu 11.04 amd64 (server or desktop) will not boot using 2.6.38-8 but will using 2.6.35-28. The latest kernel just drops to initramfs (waiting for root..) no amount of waiting helps. the grub boot params are identical. changing from root=UUID= to root=/dev/sdx doesn't help peither.
[13:00] <jaundice> fwiw 2.6.38-8 does boot on virtualbox fine
[13:03] <RoyK> jaundice: no idea, but AFAIK xen isn't supported anymore
[13:06] <jaundice> ubuntu in this context is domU not dom0 i.e it is a guest not a host
[13:46] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #774852 in postfix (main) "Postfix 'local' crashes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774852
[17:11] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #774964 in bacula (main) "package bacula-director-mysql (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774964
[17:21] <Doonz> Hey guys i just isntalled ubuntu 10.04 and checked off virtual machine host. Now im looking to find a virtual machine manager gui that i could connect remotely to the server from my windows box for managing and creting virtual machines. any recommendations?
[17:26] <qman__> can't say I have any, but to help you find one, the software is KVM/qemu
[17:27] <hggdh> Doonz: you can use virt-manager
[17:28] <Doonz> how would that work on a headless server
[17:28] <Doonz> from what i can tell its a linux only package
[17:30] <RoyK> Doonz: with remote X11, virt-manager works as a charm
[17:31] <Doonz> ok so there is no windows application to connect to the kvm server remotely
[17:31] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #774975 in openvpn (main) "Unable to connect to my vpn" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774975
[17:32] <RoyK> Doonz: download xming and configure putty to do x forwarding
[17:32] <hggdh> another option, a bit more complex, is cygwin
[17:32] <Doonz> yeah the last time i tried cygwin didnt go so well
[17:32] <RoyK> xming is trivial
[18:33] <paulm9> anyone here
[18:34] <qman__> yes, 267
[18:35] <paulm9> cool beans. any experience with postfix?
[18:38] <qman__> some, why not ask the question you actually want the answer to?
[18:42] <paulm9> qman: I'm getting SASL authentication failed: authentication unsuccessful when trying to relay mails from postfix to exchange.  Could it be caused by the untrusted TLS connection?
[18:43] <qman__> I haven't integrated postfix with exchange myself, but I don't think that's the culprit
[18:43] <qman__> if TLS wasn't happy you'd get a different error
[18:46] <paulm9> qman_: So then it's either the authentication mechanism or the user/password.
[18:46] <qman__> I think so
[18:46] <qman__> if TLS was the problem you'd get a connection refused or a TLS error
[18:47] <paulm9> that's what i thought.
[18:49] <paulm9> i've had success using swaks so I know the exchange server is set up correctly
[18:52] <qman__> I've done plenty of work on exchange, and plenty on postfix, but I've never had to make them work together
[19:00] <paulm9> qman_:  check this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601813/
[19:00] <paulm9> this is the successful connection to the exchange server
[19:06] <paulm9> this is the postfix log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601816/
[19:08] <qman__> is postfix encoding the user/pass? exchange doesn't take plain over TLS by default
[19:30] <hackeron> hey, how do I upgrade from 10.04 LTS to 11.04? - I tried do-release-upgrade but it's saying no new release found -- I assume because 11.04 is not LTS - how do I update to it anyway?
[19:33] <shauno> hackeron: you probably need to change Prompt= to normal in /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[19:33] <hackeron> shauno: ah, thanks!
[19:34] <shauno> I believe there's no direct upgrade path from 10.04 tho, so it'll offer you 10.10 first, then from 10.10 to 11.04 once 10.10 is installed
[19:34] <hackeron> that's fine, thanks :)
[19:51] <zul> SpamapS: gah i have 0 margin of error for my connecting flights next week
[19:58] <Andrewx> Hello, I'm trying to go from GUI to terminal at boot in Ubuntu Server 10.10
[19:58] <Andrewx> How can I go about doing this?
[20:02] <patdk-lap> there is no gui in ubuntu-server
[20:03] <Andrewx> I added one.
[20:03] <Andrewx> I think I change an init setting
[20:03] <Andrewx> And installed the desktop
[20:03] <Andrewx> So I was wondering, how can I revert back to terminal
[20:07] <paulm9> qman_: i have smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext
[20:07] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_tls_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext so I'm guessing that this means that it does encoding.
[20:11] <Andrewx> So, how can I get rid of the gui?
[20:12] <Andrewx> Is there an init config file or something?
[20:12] <jgould> I did that and had to reinstall to completely get rid of the GUI
[20:13] <Andrewx> Wow... I can't re-install so..
[20:14] <Andrewx> Is there a way to change the init on boot?
[20:14] <jgould> There may be a way, but I'm not sure
[20:14] <Andrewx> Like a configuration file or something?
[20:14] <paulm9> Andrewx: I'd change the rc configs
[20:14] <Andrewx> Those are?
[20:16] <paulm9> check out: man update-rc.d
[20:18] <Andrewx> So disabling run level 5 will get me a terminal?
[20:22] <paulm9> i'm would have thought you just want to get rid of the start up script for gdm
[20:23] <Andrewx> I want to change the run level
[20:23] <Andrewx> So it will init 3
[20:23] <Andrewx> Every time I boot.
[20:24] <Andrewx> There was a simple way to do this.
[20:24] <Andrewx> I forgot how though.
[20:26] <paulm9> ah, that would be inittab you are looking for - but i see that that no longer exists because ubuntu runs upstart now
[20:30] <Andrewx> So, how can I configure with this "upstart"
[20:30] <Andrewx> ?
[20:36] <paulm9> looks like the upstart scripts will still look for an /etc/inittab
[20:37] <paulm9> I would try putting a id:3:initdefault:
[20:37] <paulm9> into the file and see if that works
[20:42] <Andrewx> Unfortunately not
[20:53] <Macer> i'm fighting with myself trying to decide whether or not i should order some hotswap bays today
[20:56] <SpamapS> zul: where are you connecting through? maybe we can get wasted in the lounge together. ;)
[20:56] <zul> SpamapS: im home now
[20:57] <paulm9> Andrewx: edit /etc/init/gdm.conf where it says stop on runlevel [016]
[20:57] <zul> SpamapS: so if you want to come here and get wasted then you are more than welcome
[21:01] <SpamapS> zul: werd
[21:01] <SpamapS> zul: but I thought you were talking about your connecting flights next week
[21:02] <zul> SpamapS: ah...next week..toronto and munich
[22:00] <paulm9> is dovecot required for getting postfix to talk to exchange?
[22:02] <qman__> ubuntu has not had an inittab since at least 6.06
[22:03] <qman__> to stop the GUI from loading at start, you need to disable the upstart script for gdm (or kdm, or xdm, or whichever one you use)
[22:04] <paulm9> qman: the dude left a while back.  fyi it's the /etc/init/gdm.conf that would need to be edited. :-)
[22:04] <qman__> ah, I was scrolled up a bit
[22:15] <paulm9> qman: is dovecot required for getting postfix to talk to exchange?
[22:18] <qman__> I don't know, but dovecot does offer considerably more control over authentication than just straight postfix
[22:21] <patdk-lap> heh?
[22:21] <patdk-lap> I dunno why dovecot would be required or have anything to do with it at all
[22:23] <paulm9> patdk-lap: according to the docs, apparently postfix doesn't implement sasl itself.
[22:23] <patdk-lap> nope
[22:23] <patdk-lap> it only supports dovecot and cyrus
[22:23] <patdk-lap> and as exchange doesn't do sasl either
[22:23] <patdk-lap> the only thing I can figure out is your using smtp to talk postfix to exchange
[22:24] <paulm9> exactly that!
[22:24] <patdk-lap> exactly what?
[22:25] <paulm9> exactly stmp client postfix -> exchange.
[22:25] <patdk-lap> did you tell postfix to use client authenication?
[22:25] <raubvogel> Same subnet?
[22:25] <paulm9> the logs say sasl authenication failed
[22:25] <raubvogel> Secure subnet?
[22:25] <raubvogel> Do you admin both servers?
[22:25] <paulm9> it's a local lan - so "secure"
[22:25] <patdk-lap> what auth methods is your exchange server allowing?
[22:26] <patdk-lap> cause postfix doesn't do ntlm
[22:26] <paulm9> no admin on windows side but i have got it to work using swiks
[22:27] <raubvogel> You can have exchange accept all emails from postfix
[22:28] <paulm9> does swiks do ntlm then?
[22:29] <Macer> uhn. my tyan s2985's cpu 2 is amazingly hot
[22:29] <Macer> anybody here with a similar board that knows anything about this?
[22:29] <Macer> i updated the bios.. tried re-pasting it... using a different fan etc
[22:30] <raubvogel> Macer, would you think your question is better server in #ubuntu?
[22:30] <Macer> it is running around 80C and cpu1 is hovering around 60
[22:31] <Macer> oh. just figured someone might have a similar board here
[22:31] <raubvogel> paulm9, you want to do mail relay with authentication, right?
[22:31] <qman__> sounds like they're both too hot to me
[22:32] <paulm9> raubvogel: i believe so yes
[22:32] <paulm9> tls and auth
[22:32] <patdk-lap> what auth methods is your exchange server supporting?
[22:32] <patdk-lap> as I said postfix won't do ntlm
[22:33] <patdk-lap> so if ntlm is the only method enabled on exchange, it just won't work
[22:33] <raubvogel> patdk-lap, he can telnet to the echange server and ask it
[22:33] <patdk-lap> yep
[22:33] <raubvogel> er, exchange
[22:33] <paulm9> 250 -AUTH NTLM LOGIN
[22:33] <patdk-lap> just issue an ehlo
[22:33] <patdk-lap> postfix supports login
[22:33] <paulm9> ok
[22:34] <paulm9> but now does login do the base64 encoding ?
[22:34] <patdk-lap> google, it tells you :)
[22:34] <raubvogel> patdk-lap, it should say something else to say it can do tls
[22:34] <raubvogel> Further down
[22:34] <patdk-lap> if it says auth htlm login, without starting tls
[22:35] <patdk-lap> then he doesn't have to do tls before auth
[22:35] <patdk-lap> not that he should, but
[22:35] <paulm9> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601813/
[22:35] <paulm9> that's the output
[22:36] <paulm9> from swiks
[22:36] <patdk-lap> ok, so login only allowed after tls
[22:36] <patdk-lap> so enable client auth and tls in postfix smtp
[22:37] <patdk-lap> http://www.postfix.org/TLS_README.html#client_tls
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_auth_enable=yes
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_password_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/sasl-password
[22:37] <paulm9> #smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = login, ntlm
[22:37] <paulm9> #smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = !digest-md5
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext, mutual_auth
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_tls_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext
[22:37] <paulm9> debug_peer_list = <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:37] <paulm9> smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = auth, login, !gssapi, ntlm, static:rest
[22:37] <raubvogel> paulm9, pastebin?
[22:39] <paulm9> oops, my bad.  here are the current conf that i have: http://paste.ubuntu.com/602013/
[22:39] <raubvogel> patdk-lap, good link. I need to add it to my list
[22:41]  * patdk-lap fails to see where you enable smtp tls
[22:42] <patdk-lap> I see no smtp_use_tls or the replacement for it, smtp_tls_security_level
[22:48] <paulm9> patdk-lap: ok, so i've added those but I still get an authentication failure
[22:49] <raubvogel> What does your mail log file on your postfix box say?
[22:50] <paulm9> SASL authentication failed; server <IP_ADDRESS>[<IP_ADDRESS>] said: 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful
[22:50] <tesseracter_> i upgraded to 11.04(desktop, but #ubuntu said to ask here), but the updater said it could not update my grub2 config. most likely this is because of my software raid setup(boot RAID1, everything else RAID 0, installed from the alternative installer on 10.10) anyone have advice where to look about this?
[22:56] <paulm9> raubvogel: if i put smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = !ntlm  then it appears sasl authentication fails due to "no mechanism available"
[23:04] <raubvogel> What about if you set it up plain
[23:04] <raubvogel> '
[23:06] <paulm9> raubvogel: nope.
[23:07] <paulm9> http://paste.ubuntu.com/602021/
[23:14] <paulm9> finally!
[23:14] <paulm9> looks like the security options were blocking it.


[00:25] <davecheney> chasing another LGTM, https://codereview.appspot.com/7782049/
[00:25] <davecheney> please
[01:12] <wallyworld> davecheney: looking
[01:14] <davecheney> wallyworld: ty
[01:14] <wallyworld> davecheney: by the looks of it, most of the changes are just mechanical
[01:17] <wallyworld> davecheney: in provisioner_test, was not using TestingDialTimeout an oversight?
[01:26] <thumper> hmm....
[01:26] <thumper> coffee...
[01:26] <thumper> I think I should go make one
[01:26] <wallyworld> bigjools just finished making me a coffee :-D
[01:27] <wallyworld> he's getting better at it, needs more practice
[01:27] <bigjools> no more for you then you cheeky cnut
[01:27] <wallyworld> but you need the practice
[03:06] <lifeless> wallyworld: o/
[03:06] <wallyworld> hello there
[03:07] <wallyworld> how's things?
[03:10] <lifeless> wallyworld: pretty good, other than being stuck in san antonio :)
[03:10] <lifeless> wallyworld: you?
[03:12] <wallyworld> lifeless: well, switched teams to work on juju. interesting project. learning Go has had it's ups and downs. main issues for me are the lack of expected tools and std lib functionality cf more mature platforms like python etc
[03:13] <lifeless> yah
[03:13] <lifeless> its hard at the start of a setup like that
[03:13] <lifeless> specially when it doesn't eagerly use existing libraries
[03:16] <wallyworld> lifeless: san antonio? was that pycon or something?
[03:16] <lifeless> pycon was in santa clara, I was there
[03:17] <lifeless> did a side trip to san antonion to visit rackspace; plane I was meant to fly back to SJC on was bust
[03:17] <lifeless> so an extra unplanned night here
[03:17] <lifeless> fortunately I had a day leeway before my return flight from SJC to NZ
[03:19] <thumper> hi lifeless
[03:19] <lifeless> hi thumper :)
[03:20] <wallyworld> lifeless: did you see "dongle-gate"
[03:21] <wallyworld> wtf happened there? sounds like a storm in a tea cup all blown out of proportion
[03:21]  * thumper invokes barry's 2nd law (http://barry.warsaw.us/software/laws.html)
[03:25] <lifeless> wallyworld: I only heard bout it after the conf
[04:19] <davecheney> no thumper ?
[04:55] <davecheney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5636105/
[04:55] <davecheney> getting this very consistently
[06:12]  * davecheney can't figure out why the hook tests are so unreliable
[08:00] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[08:05] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, heyhey
[08:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: yo!
[08:06] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, would you take a quick look at https://codereview.appspot.com/7950043/ please?
[08:06] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: looking
[08:07] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, after that I'd like a quick chat about the params.*Info types
[08:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: sounds good
[08:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: reviewed
[08:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: afk for a little bit, back in a short while
[08:21] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: back
[08:23] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, I think you're right about the Reset but I got distracted by broken trunk :/
[08:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: that there should be a Flush in the TearDownTest too?
[08:25] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, yeah, but I need to think about that bit a little more
[08:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: shall we have that chat?
[08:27] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, with you in a sec, would you start a hangout please?
[08:28] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/405ae790bfb55499116d2961f7e7f2ecc352fb68?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[08:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: any chance you could jump back into that hangout? i just wanted to chat about one other thing
[09:12] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, sorry, totally didn't see that
[09:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: np. i was just wonderin about the suggestion to drop version.Current.
[09:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: it seems a bit odd to me - there whole point is so that a given binary can know what version it is
[09:13] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, I don't think it's sane, I'm responding now
[09:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: and report it as such
[09:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: ok, cool
[09:14] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: hiya
[09:14] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: can you tell us why dropping version.Current is a good idea?
[09:15] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: because it is non deterministic
[09:16] <davechen1y> i can build and test a cli on one series, and run it on another series and it does different things
[09:16] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: but version.Current isn't about testing
[09:16] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: it's about giving a unit the ability to find out what version it's running
[09:17] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: or a juju binary too
[09:17] <davechen1y> yes, and it is that multitude of roles that is causing the problem
[09:17] <davechen1y> i think version.Current needs to be replaced by several things which are specific to the role of the caller
[09:17] <fwereade__> davechen1y, many uses of version.Current are crack but many are not
[09:17] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: how would you find out the current version?
[09:18] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: sure, that is _1_ use for version.Current
[09:18] <davechen1y> arguably the correct one
[09:18] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: well, that's why i implemented it...
[09:18] <davechen1y> but the use of version.Current for 'fuck, I need a version value, but I don't have one, fuckit, version.Current works'
[09:18] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: agreed totally
[09:18] <davechen1y> throughout the code is causing tim problems
[09:18] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: but that doesn't imply that we should drop version.Current
[09:18] <davechen1y> and it is _those_ cases we need to fix
[09:18] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: just that we shouldn't use it in tests
[09:19] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: please don't read too much into my use of the word drop
[09:19] <davechen1y> by use of the word drop was as a tool expose, then audit all the places where version.Current is being used (mostly incorrectly)
[09:19] <davechen1y> then, once we've found and fixed them, we can put version.Current back
[09:19] <davechen1y> this may probably happening within one change proposal
[09:20] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: ah, when i see a subject line like "version.Current must die"  and your proposal to "delete version.Current" that sounded pretty unambiguous :-)
[09:20] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: i don't think we need to remove it
[09:20] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: just grep for it
[09:20] <davechen1y> well, tim wants to kill it, and I want to bisect it
[09:20] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: tim has no proposal for how you would *actually* find the current version
[09:21] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: i cna't speak for him fully
[09:21] <davechen1y> but I believe he believes most of those pieces of data come from the environment configuration
[09:21] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: another possibility is to always set version.Current at the start of the tests, to a known value
[09:21] <davechen1y> i cannot speak further to this
[09:21] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: actually none of those pieces of data come directly from the env config
[09:22] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: like I said, I cannot explain his plans
[09:22] <davechen1y> i am not fully aware of them
[09:22] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: np. sorry, i thought you'd discussed it at length.
[09:22] <davechen1y> this is only what I recally from our conversations
[09:22] <davechen1y> we'd talked at length about the problme
[09:22] <davechen1y> ... less so about the solution
[09:23] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: what do you think about just setting version.Current to a known value at the start of tests?
[09:24] <davechen1y> i don't think tim will accept that
[09:24] <davechen1y> and that doesn't address the problem that we use it in too many places for too many things
[09:25] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: then testing.DefaultVersion() ?
[09:25] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: i don't want to speak too much too this
[09:25] <davechen1y> i don't know tims plans
[09:25] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: ok
[09:25] <davechen1y> but this is more that just testing
[09:25] <davechen1y> and is related to the set of cards he has to do with inserting series into start instance
[09:26] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: ok
[09:27] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: thanks for the input
[09:27] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: related, your issue you raised that looks like it was a crash in the hash map code
[09:27] <davechen1y> there are two things that might be causing that
[09:27] <davechen1y> 1, is gc can run concurrently with hashmap insertion
[09:27] <davechen1y> and corrupt the hash map
[09:27] <davechen1y> we believe we've fixed those bugs now
[09:28] <davechen1y> so tip right now shouldn't do that
[09:28] <davechen1y> assuming that is the cause
[09:28] <davechen1y> 2. this might actually be reall concurrent hash map mutation
[09:28] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: it died in append - i didn't think it looked like it was in the hashmap code
[09:28] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: but perhaps you were looking at some other aspect of the trace
[09:28] <davechen1y> but the gdb you got pointed to the hashmap interator
[09:28] <davechen1y> for sure, things with the new GC are not all beer and skittles
[09:29] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: ah, the second one, yes
[09:29] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: yeah, i'm not really surprised - it's a big change
[09:30] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: i don't know that i entirely trust the disass output though - i was dumping a binary that might have been different from the original
[09:30] <davechen1y> oh
[09:30] <davechen1y> well that could point the finger at anything
[09:31] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: well, i *think* i rebuilt the same binary, but i'm not entirely sure
[09:31]  * davechen1y wishes he'd been able to convince rsc to allow go test -c ./...
[09:31] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: i really tried (perhaps a bit too hard actually)
[09:32] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: workaround: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5636443/ (i call it "gotest-c")
[09:32] <davechen1y> nah, rsc was right, we're trying to get 1.1 out the door
[09:32] <davechen1y> not the time for new features
[09:32] <davechen1y> and we can always just patch our go trees
[09:32] <davechen1y> or use your workaround
[09:33] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: true 'nuff
[09:33] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: i wish we didn't use cgo at all. then i could be absolutely sure it was a Go bug, not something we're doing wrong at the C boundary
[09:38] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: good point
[09:38] <davechen1y> i was tlaking to jam on wed that cross compiling for win32 would be much simpler if we didn't use cgo for goyaml
[09:42] <rogpeppe> davechen1y: if only we could just ditch yaml
[09:42] <TheMue> rogpeppe: +1 ;)
[09:43] <davechen1y> rogpeppe: i like the cut of your jib, sir
[09:43] <davechen1y> fwereade__: could I trouble you to finish the sentence you started yesterday, https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1d_b6VTt1bNDCNCrrIVEmEtNIoZi1toGvt5MvVBnxGxw/edit
[09:45] <fwereade__> davechen1y, done, sorry
[09:46] <davechen1y> fwereade__: no problem
[09:46] <davechen1y> if the tree passes i'll do the release tomorrow morning
[09:47] <fwereade__> davechen1y, cool, thanks
[10:13] <TheMue> so, with the latest change all test should pass (just running). then final cleanup and propose.
[10:13] <davechen1y> TheMue: yes, the tree passes at the moment
[10:14] <davechen1y> did anyone hear from jam or mgz about a public bucket to push tools' for hp cloud ?
[10:21] <TheMue> *hmpf* one fail left
[10:27] <davechen1y> TheMue: my tree passed, what is failing for you ?
[10:38] <TheMue> davechen1y: not the current trunk, only my branch with my changes. ;) they affect several places.
[10:40] <davechen1y> sadface
[10:42] <TheMue> davechen1y: why?
[10:42] <fwereade__> TheMue, things affecting several places :)
[10:43] <fwereade__> davechen1y, sorry, I don't know about an hp public bucket
[10:43] <TheMue> fwereade__: hehe, yep, always not simple.
[10:43] <davechen1y> s'ok
[10:43] <davechen1y> i wrote to jam and mgz
[10:43] <davechen1y> worse case we can always publish an adendum to the release notes
[10:43] <fwereade__> davechen1y, sgtm
[10:44] <TheMue> *ouch* that panic has been new and definitely not caused by a change. will repeat the test, maybe an intermittent one.
[10:46] <TheMue> yip, passes
[10:46] <fwereade__> TheMue, if so, please make sure it's recorded
[10:46] <TheMue> fwereade__: yep
[10:56] <TheMue> *very-big-small* all pass
[10:57] <TheMue> s/small/smile/
[11:35] <TheMue> lunchtime
[12:54] <bac> hi rogpeppe
[12:54] <rogpeppe> bac: hiya
[12:55] <bac> rogpeppe: i've got a question about charm Meta -- you the right guy?
[12:55] <rogpeppe> bac: ... maybe :-)
[12:56] <bac> rogpeppe: for charms that don't provide a 'limit' the default is 0, except for logging, in the provides section the limit is set to 1.  i'm trying to figure out if that is correct and a general rule
[12:57] <bac> so if you look at testing/repo/series/logging/metadata.yaml you'll see no limit set for the 'provides' section.  but those values are being returned as 1
[12:57] <dimitern> bac: take a look at charm/meta.go how the yaml gets parsed and default values filled in
[12:57] <bac> dimitern: i have and i didn't find my answer.
[12:58] <rogpeppe> bac: hmm, i wasn't previously aware of the "limit" attribute
[12:58] <bac> dimitern: i don't, however, understand the 'coerce' bits
[12:59] <rogpeppe> bac: Coerce is kinda clever
[13:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: does limit limit the number of units that can join a particular relation?
[13:00] <dimitern> bac: judging from Coerce and the schema (ifaceSchema) limit can be either nil (empty, like "limit: ") or an int
[13:01] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, I *think* that limit is meant to mean how many services that relation can be established with
[13:01] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: i think that's what i meant actually
[13:01] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, but to the best of my knowledge there has never been code that actually interprets it
[13:01] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: ok, so bac's question is kinda moot
[13:02] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, yeah
[13:02] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, there's a bug for it somewhere
[13:02] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, and also for, er, is it "required"?
[13:02] <dimitern> fwereade__: yeah, that was weird for me when i saw it as well
[13:02] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, some other meta relation field anyway
[13:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: i'm trying to think of a scenario where it might be useful
[13:03] <bac> rogpeppe: it is moot, but right now i have to change my expected results to match something i don't really expect (1 vs 0) and that makes me uncomfortable.
[13:03] <rogpeppe> bac: ha, i see.
[13:03] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, it doesn't make much sense to have wordpress talking to two different databases
[13:03] <bac> if that is the case, i'd rather just remove it from the results i return.
[13:03] <fwereade__> bac, +1 to not representing it in the gui
[13:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: hmm, i didn't realise you could have a "requires" relation with more than one service
[13:04] <bac> fwereade__: ok, so remove it from the results i send back.  sound good to me.
[13:04] <fwereade__> bac, sgtm
[13:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: so currently, you can do: juju deploy wordpress mysql1 mysql2; juju add-relation wordpress mysql1; juju add-relation wordpress mysql2 and it'll "work" ?
[13:06] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, I am not aware of anything that would prevent it
[13:06] <dimitern> mramm: i see you added the on call reviewer schedule to the calendar, but how about what we discussed - having 2 people each day (distributed across time zones)?
[13:06] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: hmm
[13:06] <fwereade__> dimitern, I think we decided to go with the simplest thing for now
[13:07] <dimitern> fwereade__: ah, ok then
[13:08] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, TheMue, mramm: I have to pick up laura today, I won't make the kanban meeting I'm afraid
[13:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: ok
[13:08] <TheMue> fwereade__: ok, thx for the info.
[13:54] <mramm> dimitern: I don't know how to do time zone distribution in a reasonable way -- there are basically 2 zones, EU and AU, with 5 and 3 people in them, plus john who is sort of in the middle.
[13:54] <mramm> and I thought we had decided to just do 1 person for now
[13:54] <mramm> but if we need time-zone spread, we can do that
[13:54] <dimitern> mramm: well, we can have 1 guy around AU and 1 around EU each day maybe?
[13:55] <mramm> well, that means that the AU guys have to do it more than 1x week
[13:55] <dimitern> mramm: for now it's ok, but we should think about it if it proves insufficient (slow reviews e.g.)
[13:55] <mramm> right
[13:55] <mramm> we will improve as needed
[14:36] <bac> rogpeppe, dimitern: if you've got time to do a review i'd appreciate it:  https://codereview.appspot.com/7668045
[14:36] <dimitern> bac: i'll take a look in a bit
[14:36] <bac> thanks!
[14:37] <rogpeppe> bac: me too
[14:37] <bac> \o/
[14:54] <dimitern> bac: reviewed
[14:54] <bac> thanks
[14:58] <fwereade__> TheMue, would you explain the high-level thinking behind the various funcs for manipulating home/juju_home?
[14:58] <fwereade__> TheMue, I'm having some difficulty forming a picture of what gets called when and why
[15:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: latest in the version.Current saga: tests fail when run on quantal 386
[15:15] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: because imagesData doesn't have any image for that combination
[15:15] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, I'm not surprised, I'm starting to think we basically shouldn't ever be using real series
[15:15] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: in testing, yeah.
[15:16] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, indeed :)
[15:16] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: except live tests, i guess
[15:16] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, true, but they need distinct config anyway
[15:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: yup
[15:18] <fwereade__> TheMue, ping
[15:19] <TheMue> fwereade__: just fetched a tea ;) and wanted to answer your question
[15:19] <fwereade__> TheMue, heyhey, I was just looking at the JUJU_HOME stuff
[15:19] <TheMue> fwereade__: Init() is to init the juju home based on $JUJU_HOME or $HOME
[15:20] <TheMue> fwereade__: JujuHome() returns it
[15:20] <fwereade__> TheMue, the big question in my mind is why we're calling Init() in test setup
[15:20] <TheMue> JujuHomePath() allows to build a path to a file/dir in juju home
[15:21] <TheMue> fwereade__: because otherwise some tests are failing (with a panic) when they retrieve the juju home somewhere in a nested function
[15:21] <TheMue> fwereade__: I first tried it w/o any init and then digged down step by step
[15:22] <fwereade__> TheMue, but why would we want to require that HOME or JUJU_HOME be set in order to run tests?
[15:22] <TheMue> fwereade__: so if a test tests Foo(), which calls Bar() and that Yadda() and Yadda() references to the juju home, you simply need it
[15:22] <fwereade__> TheMue, no
[15:22] <fwereade__> TheMue, we should not need any magic env vars set just to run the tests
[15:23] <TheMue> fwereade__: we do, already now
[15:23] <fwereade__> TheMue, those? or others?
[15:23] <TheMue> fwereade__: we have many code, which relies on $HOME
[15:23] <TheMue> fwereade__: and those tests would fail w/o a $HOME too
[15:23] <fwereade__> TheMue, I thought this branch was replacing that?
[15:24] <TheMue> fwereade__: this branch now replaces the static init()
[15:25] <TheMue> fwereade__: but the code using $HOME is nested
[15:25] <TheMue> fwereade__: we said JujuHome() shall panic, if $HOME or $JUJU_HOME are not set
[15:25] <fwereade__> TheMue, so what? surely the tests should be manipulating exactly one thing -- the value of jujuHome
[15:26] <TheMue> fwereade__: so the replacement of the old direct code with the usage of the new API would panic
[15:26] <fwereade__> TheMue, and we have SetTestJujuHome for that
[15:27] <fwereade__> TheMue, but you have made STJH panic if Init hasn't been called, which STM to be missing the point
[15:27] <TheMue> fwereade__: ok, sounds reasonable
[15:27] <fwereade__> TheMue, also, what's the deal with origJujuHome?
[15:28] <TheMue> fwereade__: but still there is code that is init statically in tests which relies on a juju home (or on $HOME in the past)
[15:28] <fwereade__> TheMue, can you give me an example of when we need to call Init in a test (that isn't testing Init? ;p)
[15:28] <TheMue> fwereade__: it allows to restore it, even if $JUJU_HOME as env var has been changed inside the tests
[15:29] <fwereade__> TheMue, well, kinda
[15:29] <TheMue> fwereade__: one moment, cleaned up my editor, have to find the place
[15:29] <fwereade__> TheMue, but it stops you being able to nest `defer STJH(STJH(c.MkDir()))`
[15:30] <fwereade__> TheMue, if you do that when it's already been done somewhere else, things will act weird
[15:31] <TheMue> fwereade__: https://codereview.appspot.com/7923043/diff/12001/environs/cloudinit/cloudinit_test.go?column_width=120 line 26ff
[15:32] <fwereade__> TheMue, I see no reason to call Init there
[15:32] <TheMue> fwereade__: why do you want to nest setting a test home?
[15:32] <fwereade__> TheMue, ah, ok, I do -- Init and SetTestJujuHome are equally bad there
[15:33] <TheMue> fwereade__: ok, setting home should work too, yes. inside of config.New() today $HOME/.juju is accessed
[15:33] <fwereade__> TheMue, because when you see that line, you think it's bug-free in and of itself, but actually it's not... or maybe it is, but it becomes really hard to tell when you have all these different mechanisms crossing over
[15:34] <TheMue> fwereade__: sorry, can't follow your last sentence
[15:34] <fwereade__> TheMue, sorry
[15:35] <fwereade__> TheMue, I'm saying that there is too much surprising action at a distance for me to follow
[15:35] <TheMue> fwereade__: but yes, I can follow your idea of using STJH() also for an initializing in tests. here I thought too short
[15:36] <fwereade__> TheMue, but I don't seem to have communicated why it is wrong to call Init in tests?
[15:36] <fwereade__> TheMue, I wouldn't have STJH in code but I'm not typing it out every time in irc ;)
[15:37] <fwereade__> TheMue, you should not be calling Init in tests because it's making a global state change that cannot be restored cannot be restored
[15:37] <TheMue> fwereade__: what I meant is, that STJH shouldn't rely on an Init before
[15:38] <fwereade__> TheMue, ah, got you
[15:38] <TheMue> fwereade__: it can be restored
[15:38] <TheMue> fwereade__: that's why ...Orig is only set once and never changed again
[15:39] <fwereade__> TheMue, original correct state -- with jujuHome="" -- *cannot* be restored
[15:39] <fwereade__> TheMue, it will panic if you try
[15:39] <fwereade__> TheMue, if you put in Init in one test, other tests in the package might or might not run Inited, dependingon circumstance
[15:40] <fwereade__> TheMue, am I making sense to you?
[15:41] <TheMue> fwereade__: would have like to see it painted on a whiteboard. *lol*
[15:41] <TheMue> fwereade__: but yes, Restore... relies on Init before
[15:41] <TheMue> fwereade__: and that's the failure
[15:42] <fwereade__> TheMue, what's the actual use case for Restore... anyway?
[15:42] <fwereade__> TheMue, can't we just just STJH throughout?
[15:43] <TheMue> fwereade__: hmm, would be possible. but I would like a mechanism like in FakeHome more. an own type with a Restore method
[15:43] <TheMue> fwereade__: so the call would be defer STJH("foo").Restore()
[15:43] <fwereade__> TheMue, that would be fine too, my problem is that we have a load of different ways to do basically the same thing
[15:44] <TheMue> fwereade__: yes, we have, the problem with a universal programming language ;) but rogers idea is very elegant
[15:45] <fwereade__> TheMue, in fact that would be nice, because you can just stick it in a field with clear intent
[15:45] <fwereade__> TheMue, sorry, which idea?
[15:45] <TheMue> fwereade__: the idea of an own type (based on a string) with a Restore method
[15:46] <fwereade__> TheMue, we have two fakeHome types already I think, I would be hoping to merge those rather than to create a new one:)
[15:49] <TheMue> fwereade__: i left them almost untouched for now, but i think they may be merged and better integrated into the juju home idea in future (refactoring card for post 13.04)
[15:49] <fwereade__> TheMue, but the main point is that config.Init() must not be called in tests, except for those testing itself
[15:49] <TheMue> fwereade__: yep, got you
[16:10] <fwereade__> TheMue, long review sent I'm afraid
[16:10] <TheMue> fwereade__: ok, thx. will handle it with care. ;)
[16:12] <fwereade__> aww poo, self-evaluation
[16:12] <fwereade__> guess I won't be getting anything else done today
[16:15] <TheMue> fwereade__: btw, the cachePath change to $JUJU_HOME/cache works because of the setting of $JUJU_HOME in Init if it not yet set
[16:15] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: oh bugger, that
[16:15]  * TheMue done this evaluation stuff this morning
[16:15] <fwereade__> TheMue, but that doesn't happen
[16:16] <TheMue> fwereade__: what doesn't happen?
[16:16] <fwereade__> TheMue, setting $JUJU_HOME in Init
[16:17] <fwereade__> TheMue, which is a good thing, because I can think of no good reason to do so
[16:17] <fwereade__> TheMue, but it does mean the charm store will only work in very specialized circumstances
[16:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: i'm afraid i got horribly diverted today by a feasibility study of whether it was possible to test our transactions thoroughly. http://play.golang.org/p/iyfOvjcWR1
[16:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: answer: it would be possible, but quite expensive.
[16:17] <TheMue> fwereade__: argh, sorry, missed it when changing the code. had it in there before.
[16:18] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, that's cool, but, yeah, not lightweight
[16:18] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: if our ops on mongo weren't so slow, it might be feasible
[16:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: the nice thing is it can test arbitrary transactions together in a thorough way
[16:20] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, that is very nice, indeed
[16:21] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: it's something that we might consider writing tests for, even if they took days to run, just so we can have some kind of assurance.
[16:21] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, yeah, I would be very keen on future work in this direction
[16:22] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: i'll save it for later :-)
[16:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: the only major assumption is that when an operation generates a transaction, it's a deterministic function of the state it's previously seen.
[17:44] <fwereade__> happy weekends everyone
[17:44] <dimitern> fwereade__: you too! :)
[17:52] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: any you!
[17:52] <rogpeppe> s/any/and
[18:48] <rogpeppe> happy weekends all!
[18:53] <dimitern> rogpeppe: same to you :)


[00:11] <rmg51> jedijf:  Teddy's old laptop is now booting into 11.10
[00:11] <rmg51> clean install
[00:17] <jedijf> rmg51: awesome
[00:17] <rmg51> not so awesome
[00:17] <jedijf> pretend
[00:18] <rmg51> I have atop panel and a blank white desktop
[00:18] <rmg51> can't click on anything
[00:25] <jedijf> try alt tab
[00:25] <jedijf> on login screen what session was it?
[00:25] <rmg51> nothing is showing on the desktop
[00:26] <rmg51> all I can get is a blank white screen
[00:26] <rmg51> nothing shows if I click on something
[00:27] <rmg51> alt tab showed that two things are open but nothing is on the screen
[00:28] <jedijf> log out, and see what session it's trying, try 2d then log back in
[00:29] <rmg51> I'm rebooting now
[00:31] <rmg51> 2d seems to be working
[00:31] <jedijf> \o/
[00:32] <rmg51> log in screen is different
[00:33] <rmg51> top right corner is a little gear that you have to click to show options
[00:36] <rmg51> no wireless
[00:37] <jedijf> type drivers in the dash thingy 'additional drivers' should show up
[00:38] <rmg51> doing that now
[00:39] <rmg51> installing nvidia drivers
[00:45] <rmg51> taking a long time to log out
[00:48] <rmg51> booted into regular Ubuntu
[00:48] <rmg51> which has wireless
[00:49] <rmg51> and it works
[00:56] <jedijf> so it's 3d untiy?
[00:59] <rmg51> should be
[09:35] <InHisName1> morning all
[09:36] <InHisName1> OK, I rebooted.   grub seems OK.   Can't login though.
[09:38] <InHisName1> Seems login is working for only 0.5 seconds though.   There is text on screen each line goes down one line but not a CR.   Last line says   -- Home is /home/testuser/.vnc/ubuntu:1.log
[09:41] <InHisName1> I do cntrl-alt F2 and can log into term session.   I tail that log file    last item there is: Option "--login" is not longer supported in this version of gnome-terminal; you might want to create a profile with the desired setting, and use the new "--profile" option
[09:44] <InHisName1> So, experts out there, where/how do I create this profile ?   btw /home/testuser   is not for the user I can login with - /home/rich is proper one,   It seems weird that /home/testuser shows up as last line when logging into gui as rich and not testuser.
[09:57] <InHisName1> I checked /home/rich/.vnc/ubuntu:1.log    it has same line near end with same date.  There is one more line here -->Window manager warning: Log level 32: could not find XKB extension.
[10:05] <InHisName1> I was still in testuser directory.   rich does not have any ubuntu:1.log or ubuntu:1.pid like testuser does.  Those files dated Oct 15 5:57pm   not today.    That time was about when login screen became available.
[10:07] <InHisName1> seems .vnc login is for remote access login, so not sure why that is last message flashed on screen when logging in with 'rich'.
[10:08] <InHisName1> Maybe I could shut down Ctrl-alt F7 gui and just try to 'manually' start gui from ctrl-alt F2, maybe could see more errors longer.
[10:26] <InHisName1> Some google posts mention  switching lightgdm to gdm or autologin needs to be disabled.   I might have had autologin set in natty, so how to unset via terminal mode ?    searching meanwhile
[10:38] <JonathanD> Morning.
[10:38] <InHisName1> morning JonathanD
[10:39] <InHisName1> I tried a fix for crashing nautilus at start:  apt-get remove nautilus-open-terminal but it was already not installed.
[12:43] <InHisName1> someone put entry on ubuntuforums about a brief login and back to login prompt.  Suggest one of bugs filed may be involved.   I'll read further after church.
[13:07] <InHisName> Hey!   I'm logged into my main computer now.
[13:08] <InHisName> I fixed it by changing owner & group to rich from root for .Xauthority     I checked /home/testuser/.Xauthority and it was testuser for owner and group.
[13:09] <InHisName> I don't know how the ownership and group got changed or why.   There were others suffering the same fate for Oneiric entered in ubuntuforums.
[13:09] <InHisName> Well, off to church now.
[15:35] <InHisName> never got into church, kids went ballistic.   911, police, long talks, etc. Now home in separate bedrooms for rest of day.   So to avoid giving them much attention, I'll be here on and off alot today.
[15:56] <MutantTurkey> what!
[15:57] <MutantTurkey> InHisName you can't j ust say that and then not tell the whole story
[16:13] <InHisName> We are still writing for next few hours for DHS and others that need to know.   Sorry MutantTurkey but if we have a clever summary at end, maybe I can paste it to you when its completed.
[16:16] <InHisName> Right now each of us is in separate places to relax the brain energies.   Similar to classic 'time out' but for everyone.
[16:17] <MutantTurkey> oh boy
[16:17] <MutantTurkey> Homeland Security?
[16:17] <InHisName> So wife is crocheting, I am computing.   Check on kids for 1 minute each about 2x an hour.   VERY boring for them.   They 'loose' 29/30 of my attention.
[16:17] <MutantTurkey> or Human Services...
[16:18] <InHisName> pretty similar
[16:18] <MutantTurkey> InHisName: did you upgrade to oneiric?
[16:18] <InHisName> HomeBound security
[16:18] <MutantTurkey> ah
[16:18] <InHisName> yes, was VERY reluctant to reboot.   warnings of grub upgrade errors.
[16:19] <InHisName> Did several fixes for grub2 and this morning gambled on rebooting.
[16:19] <MutantTurkey> irrelevant http://imgur.com/UDX7T
[16:19] <InHisName> Couldn't login main user.    guest could !
[16:20] <InHisName> Then tried Ctrl-Alt-F2  I could log in there.
[16:20] <InHisName> Gui problem.    Posted buncha stuff here this early morn.
[16:20] <InHisName> Finally stumbled on ubuntuforums entry that described me exactly.
[16:22] <InHisName> At login prompt, I type in password.  I see screen with text lines, down line (no cr) more line, etc.  There were several suggestions but one said the .Xauthority file had wrong owner and group.   Yep, mine was root root.   Changed to rich rich.   Now it works.
[16:23] <MutantTurkey> nice
[16:23] <MutantTurkey> well at least that was resolved
[16:28] <MutantTurkey> I have thesixtyone(like pandora) website in a full screen browser, with no borders, set below all my windows
[16:28] <MutantTurkey> so my background is my music player!
[16:36] <MutantTurkey> http://imagebin.org/179326
[16:36] <MutantTurkey> look its so pretty
[16:36] <MutantTurkey> :x
[16:40] <InHisName> izzat your dad or anyone you know in the website, MutantTurkey ?
[16:42] <InHisName> Have you noticed when mouse hovers over somthing, that after a few seconds it DOES it without any clicking ?
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> wait what?
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> InHisName:no that guy in the background is the artist that is playing
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> :)
[16:42] <InHisName> calvin@boxi: etc.
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> oh thats me
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> ?
[16:43]  * MutantTurkey so confused
[16:43] <InHisName> must be www.colinrossmusic.com fella
[16:44] <MutantTurkey> yeah
[16:44] <InHisName> Just noticed it was really wide picture with words hidden off my window
[16:45] <MutantTurkey> :)
[17:04] <InHisName> Its my mouse  or mouse driver.    Hovering the arrow or hand pointer fills up with orange and 'clicks' for me !
[17:04] <InHisName> Checked mouse settings but found nothing about it yet.
[18:09] <jedijf> < akgraner> hey if you are now using Ubuntu 11.10 can you run system testing and submit your  system to Ubuntu Friendly :-)  let me know if you need more information and I'll  get you the HOw to participate links
[18:09] <jedijf> 13:42 < akgraner> we need some more submissions
[18:09] <jedijf> 13:42 < akgraner> Ubuntu Friendly is now in Beta :-)
[18:09] <jedijf> 13:43 < akgraner> and we have a Web Site and stuff too - If you run into issues or have comments  please file  bugs as well :-)  Please and Thank you! --akgraner
[18:10] <jedijf> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/participate/
[18:11] <jedijf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruePy-cNNI
[18:11] <jedijf> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-friendly-squad
[18:36] <InHisName> how do I shut off 'hover-click' its driving me bonkers.
[18:40] <InHisName> Now I found it, under 'system settings'  --   'universal Access'  pointing and clicking tab --> hover-click on/off.
[18:40] <InHisName> Ahhhh much better
[18:49] <rmg51> well, I think my old laptop is done for :P
[18:59] <rmg51> maybe not
[20:51] <rmg51> jedijf: just finished playing with my old laptop
[20:52] <rmg51> 11.10 is installed and using xfce :-D
[20:52] <rmg51> 2 down 2 to go
[21:57] <InHisName> rmg51: can you 'hover' the mouse arrow over a link in browser or something ?   Is 'hover-click' enabled in your installation ?  about 5 seconds hover to ghost the click for me.
[21:59] <rmg51> InHisName you seem to be the only one with those issues
[22:48] <InHisName> So its not really being set for everyone.   Real annoying.  Now its fine in off state.
[23:33] <_nomad> howdy
[23:34] <jedijf> _nomad: good evening
[23:35] <TheEvilPhoenix> sup
[23:55] <_nomad> anyone out there use f.lux and have issues movin to 11.10?


[01:36] <yown> Is there a way to have gnome 2 like environment in 13.4 ubuntu?
[01:42] <krytarik> yown, see here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370&page=20&p=12665934#post12665934
[01:45] <yown> krytarik: I have seen screeenshots of "fall back" but it misses the "system" menu tree, got any idea about that?
[01:46] <krytarik> yown: Nope, you'll just have to live with that then.
[01:47] <yown> Live with not being able to access important menu options? I think not. How can one properly manage without them?
[01:47] <yown> krytarik: You don't know of a way to get a more full gnome 2 experience on 13.4?
[01:48] <krytarik> yown: It's all just under "Applications".
[01:49] <krytarik> It's a bit inconvenient, but yeah.
[01:49] <yown> krytarik: You mean all the options that were system were moved to application?
[01:49] <krytarik> Yup.
[01:50] <yown> Do you know why this was done?
[01:50] <krytarik> Oh, please not that discussion with me now. :P
[01:51] <yown> I didn't say I wanted to discuss it with you, I just asked if you knew some of the reasons behind it?
[01:53] <yown> krytarik: Is there a clear screen icon in fallback? I am not seeing one in the screenshot
[01:54] <krytarik> yown: You mean "Show Desktop"? Yeah, there is.
[01:55] <yown> Is there a fork or addon or something that brings back "system"?
[01:55] <yown> for 13.4
[01:57] <krytarik> yown: Yeah, there is MATE, but I'm not a particular fan of it: http://mate-desktop.org/about/
[01:58] <yown> I looked at mate, it doesn't even have a top bar, and it crams all the menu trees into a windows like icon, which I am not a fan of. Is there a way to get MATE to look like gnome 2 krytarik?
[01:59] <yown> to give it a top bar including app shortcut placements, the 3 menus?
[02:00] <krytarik> yown: On the front page of MATE's site, it looks like, but have a look at the link I've posted.
[02:01] <yown> krytarik: I did, what of it? That screenshot is of gnome 2
[02:02] <krytarik> yown: Well, it's forked from Gnome 2, that's the whole point of it. :P
[02:03] <krytarik> yown: And it definitely used to look that, they seem to at least have added that other menu now though.
[02:03] <yown> What is, to work like gnome 2? All the screenshots I can find of it make it look like its imitating a windows set up, which is no good
[02:05] <yown> krytarik:  What other menu, where, who? Please elaborate
[02:06] <yown> hi marawan2, you know anything about getting gnome 2 like DE on 13.4?
[02:06] <marawan2> yown: wow buddy, i joined this cuz it said for begginers
[02:07] <marawan2> yown: i am not of much help as of my little info
[02:07] <Unit193> !notunity | yown
[02:09] <marawan2> *me not understanding anything*
[02:09] <marawan2> ubot93: what is unity and gnome
[02:09] <yown> I can explain, they are desk top environments. In other words they are the graphical interface you use to interact with ubuntu
[02:10] <krytarik> yown: Please have a look at the announcement of its latest release, there is no Windows-like menu in -any- of those screenshots, just the old-style one: http://mate-desktop.org/2013/04/02/mate-1-6-released/
[02:10] <marawan2> yown: but i thought usity was for games and stuff
[02:11] <krytarik> yown: And now that we've talked about that, it's gone on the front page too, of course. :P
[02:11] <yown> marawan2: no, unit is a DesktopEnvironment (or DE for short)
[02:12] <yown> in fact, unity is one of the most resource intensive DE's, and thus the worst for playing games over
[02:13] <yown> I dislike it for other reasons
[02:13] <marawan2> yown: but there are these begone and rush team games that require some plugin called unity 3d
[02:13] <marawan2> does that have anything related
[02:14] <krytarik> marawan2: Nope.
[02:14] <yown> Oh the flash player?
[02:14] <marawan2> yes
[02:14] <yown> Now that I think of it, I think there is a 3d flash player with a similar name, that has no relation to this
[02:15] <krytarik> marawan2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_3D
[02:17] <yown> krytarik: But screenshots of 1.8 look like windows, is there a fallback to 1.6 mate?
[02:18] <marawan2> ubuntu is so candy eye
[02:18] <marawan2> lubuntu is not for sure
[02:18] <yown> marawan2: Unfortunately there is no linux support for unity the flash player that I know of, nor of the latest flash update, I think anyway
[02:20] <yown> But you could perhaps use wine, or other methods to indirectly make them work
[02:22] <marawan2> no i can't, i am running old crappy laptop on lubuntu so i cant
[02:24] <yown> well no reason to bother with unity 3d in the first place then, since even directly without emulation or whatever, its not exactly low on resource requirement. Flash is pretty inefficient that way from what I have seen
[02:26] <yown> krytarik: Still there? You know anything directly about mate? Have you used it before?
[02:28] <krytarik> yown: You realize that with MATE 1.8, you are talking about a version that isn't even released yet, right? And I can't even get screenshots of that on a quick web search right now. You may have more luck asking about such details in their own channel, #mate.
[02:31] <krytarik> yown: It looks like you are confusing MATE with Cinnamon.
[02:33] <marawan2> yown: me trying my best to theme ubuntu http://imgur.com/A3Wqd5N
[02:34] <krytarik> yown: And no, didn't try it myself, I'm past Gnome 2's setup since a while already, my blog partner did though.
 is it that all people who try linux are either blogers/youtubers, freelancers or programmers ? because i don't understand any of the mate and cinnamon you r saying!
[02:37] <yown> krytarik: Did you say you didn't like Mate? If so, what didn't you like about it?
[02:38] <yown> marawan2: They are the names of DE environments like I was explaining earlier
[02:38] <krytarik> yown: Yup, I said so. First, it's Gnome 2-ish; second, its default theme is really ugly. :P
[02:38] <marawan2> yown: well i guess there is many DE envirnoments
[02:38] <yown> Think of them as flavors of linux, and you will find it very simple to understand
[02:38] <yown> yes, very many
[02:39] <yown> And DE mostly effects how you interact with the Operating System, and not basic functionality/compatibility etc
[02:40] <yown> So the analogy would be, ubuntu is a flavor of linux icecream, and a DE is the topping you might choose to put on top of that icecream
[02:41] <krytarik> I like that analogy. :)
[02:41] <marawan2> :)
[02:42] <marawan2> i think you guys should be at the Ubuntu-pro
[02:42] <yown> heh, except this is very basic stuff
[02:43] <marawan2> oh so there is more in depth
[02:43] <yown> Operating systems are very complex
[02:44] <yown> Windows is very complex, it just hides that complexity, where as linux exposes it more
[02:44] <yown> ubuntu is a good entry point for a new person like yourself
[02:45] <yown> But I would recommend against the default DE of ubuntu, "unity" as personally believe it is not newbie friendly
[02:46] <marawan2> my opinion linux is not newbie friendly at all
[02:46] <yown> It really is
[02:46] <marawan2> while my grandma uses windows 7 with ease :D
[02:47] <yown> I was scared myself when first coming into linux, but really its pretty simple
[02:47] <yown> Use the ubuntu software center for installing new programs
[02:47] <marawan2> i am just past the scared
[02:47] <marawan2> right into the confused
[02:48] <yown> Well what confuses you
[02:48] <marawan2> some softwares will be like untrusted so i have to do some weird sudo apt stuff through the terminal
[02:48] <marawan2> which i don't understand what i am doing by the way
[02:48] <yown> Are you talking about installing through ubuntu software center?
[02:49] <marawan2> yes
[02:49] <yown> Well put the details here, and maybe someone can help
[02:49] <marawan2> i did in the ubuntu server
[02:50] <yown> you mean the ubuntu channel?
[02:50] <marawan2> ya
[02:50] <marawan2> i am new to the irc chat too
[02:50] <yown> no help? Keep at it then, or ask here
[02:50] <marawan2> i got help
[02:50] <yown> cool
[02:50] <marawan2> they say use the synpatic pakge manager
[02:50] <yown> Its not like you can find this kind of help with windows
[02:50] <marawan2> no
[02:51] <marawan2> windows is crap, slow, viruse full, expensive and not FUN
[02:51] <marawan2> i got to admit linux is cool
[02:51] <yown> Well do as they instruct. There should be a bunch of lines you can put into a terminal in order to install what you need to install
[02:51] <yown> You dont need to understand the lines at first
[02:51] <yown> Just find them online or through help
[02:58] <marawan2> ya thats what i did
[03:03] <marawan2> well yown, could you suggest some softwares for me
[03:06] <marawan2> yown u still there bro
[03:06] <marawan2> i didn't get to know your real name or where u from
[10:13] <checkin> hi
[10:13] <checkin> I am unable to toggle wireless on/off, mute/unmute, play/pause using Front operation panel LED keys on my Toshiba Qosmio F60. Currently I need to enable WiFi/Bluetooth from Windows for it to work. Fn+F8 toggle works as soft block/unblock only if I have already enabled WiFi under Windows. Any ideas as how this can be done? I have tried Ubuntu 13.04 as well. The only LED Touch button that works under Ubuntu is the Volume Up/
[10:22] <oddthingy> Hello guys, I wonder if you could help me here please -
[10:23] <oddthingy> Do you know of any usb wireless modem devices that are known to work straight away (plug&play)?
[10:23] <oddthingy> I had one that worked, but lost it
[11:15] <pip__> Hi, I can't find the "mark as solved" dodad on the forums any more.  Where's it hidden these days please?
[11:34] <wilee-nilee> pip__, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnansweredPostsTeam/SolvedThreads
[11:34] <pip__> wilee-nilee: you, sir or madam are a hero, thanks
[11:42] <wilee-nilee> pip__, No problem


[05:26] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Security:: Episode 124 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-124/
[22:12] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Xubuntu 21.10 to Include New Apps, Including a Clipboard Manager @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/07/xubuntu-21-10-development-update (by Joey Sneddon)


[01:36] <roasted> hello you beautiful people
[01:36] <stratus_ss> good evening
[01:40] <roasted> herro


[13:54] <elacheche> ping Neo31
[13:56] <elacheche> Sorry, can't answer your call! And didn't have spare time this morning to answer our mail, I answered it 2min ago.. I had a MySQL crush this morning so I was focusing on it..
[13:58] <Neo31> np elacheche
[13:58] <Neo31> check your email i forwared something to u
[13:59] <Neo31> np
[13:59] <Neo31> i did request that they subscribe to ubuntu-tn ML and resend the email asap
[13:59] <Neo31> today if possible
[13:59] <Neo31> stillthey might have the same problem as for last year (bad date choice, if u know what i mean)
[13:59] <elacheche> Neo31, check yours I already answered it ;)
[14:00] <Neo31> ok, i was busy working too
[14:00] <Neo31> let me c
[14:00] <elacheche> There was problems coordinating with G2FOSS last year.. They are already on the ML.. The problem that many persons uses that Gmail address.. So we can't have a good coordination..
[14:01] <Neo31> gotcha
[14:02] <Neo31> yep they are doing the same mistake again!
[14:02] <Neo31> i hope they get lucky this year :p
[14:02] <Neo31> that's not the worst i think elacheche
[14:02] <Neo31> see the date
[14:03] <Neo31> it's again a Wednesday :p
[14:03] <Neo31> it apears to be a fixed date with no other choices again :p
[14:03] <elacheche> It up to them.. They need to stop using 1 mail for a group of people.. Yep.. I saw that.. If they can't solve the other problem they can't solve the date problem too -_-
[14:04] <Neo31> i hope they get lucky and have a member available that date this year
[14:04] <Neo31> whatever, we'll wait for their reply!
[14:04] <elacheche> I'm not confirming anything unless I have a fixed coordinator name..
[14:04] <Neo31> i wouldn't be much help personally even if i am here at tunis, i have work to do on wednesday
[14:05] <elacheche> I know..
[14:05] <Neo31> maybe bedis idk
[14:05] <Neo31> anyway
[14:05] <Neo31> c ya later
[14:05] <elacheche> We wait for the reply..
[14:05] <Neo31> yep