[00:00] <HazRPG> ah, cool
[00:01] <HazRPG> ... think it would be too late to get this ordered for today :P
[00:05] <hamitron> ali1234: it may be also worth checking for the largest number you have to multiply by
[00:05] <ali1234> yes, optimizing by GCD
[00:06] <hamitron> I dunno the name for it
[00:06] <hamitron> :)
[00:06] <ali1234> greatest common divisor
[00:06] <hamitron> yeh
[00:06] <hamitron> sounds right
[00:06] <hamitron> :)
[00:06] <ali1234> then you scale up by src/gcd and scale down by dest/gcd
[00:06] <hamitron> yeh
[00:07] <gord> you will still end up with big blocks with single pixel fuzzy edges ;)
[00:07] <hamitron> yeh :/
[00:10] <gord> i think running my OS off wifi might be quicker than using this sd card...
[00:10] <hamitron> I guess Adobe deserve to receive the high price tag for CS3 ;)
[00:12] <HazRPG> hamitron: how so?
[00:12] <hamitron> brb, need to cough up a lung
[00:13] <HazRPG> woot, some graze heading my way on Saturday :D
[00:18] <hamitron> HazRPG: adobe optimising their image processing
[00:18] <HazRPG> would it be a bad idea to try 11.04 on my normal desktop?
[00:18] <hamitron> when you start reading, you realise how much there is
[00:19] <HazRPG> hamitron: but they're up to CS5 now though...
[00:19] <hamitron> I wouldn't use 11.04
[00:19] <hamitron> oh
[00:19]  * hamitron slaps himself
[00:19] <hamitron> CS5 then
[00:19] <hamitron> ;)
[00:19] <HazRPG> :P
[00:19] <HazRPG> I should know, they insist on sending me e-mails T_T
[00:19] <hamitron> :/
[00:20] <HazRPG> just to relate to our conversation of the other day about e-mails ^^
[00:21] <HazRPG> gord: You know earlier today (19/01/2011) you said I should try out 11.04... did you mean I should install it on my normal desktop, or run from live CD? or both?
[00:22] <gord> HazRPG, that is entirely up to you, depends how brave you are
[00:22] <gord> just remember, its still very much alpha software
[00:23] <HazRPG> gord: well say I brave installing it on my desktop, is the code for the boot-loader also still alpha software?
[00:24] <gord> let me put it this way, there is no guaruntee that installing an alpha version of ubuntu won't overwrite every single byte of data on your disks with "meow"
[00:24] <HazRPG> :eyetwitch:
[00:25] <HazRPG> I remember using 9.10 alpha with no problems I think :P
[00:25] <HazRPG> however that was on my laptop...
[00:26] <hamitron> gord: not "moo"? ;/
[00:26] <HazRPG> question, been meaning to ask this for a while, is there a way to dump the whole liveCD straight into RAM?
[00:26] <HazRPG> I mean in the past that would have been bad for me, but now I have 6GB of RAM, having 700MB loaded into it isn't that bad
[00:27] <HazRPG> I know as it stands it just loads up the main bits in RAM, and as 'n' when you start using apps... but having an option to just dump the whole lot would be cool
[00:28] <HazRPG> or would that be implausible?
[00:28] <hamitron> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM
[00:31] <hamitron> "So, Steve Jobs goes on medical leave and Apple begins allowing porn (albeit soft core) into the App Store? Does Steve know about this?" ... he is probably enjoying it at home ;)
[00:32] <HazRPG> I heard this song on jamendo, it is totally awesome xD http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/103074
[00:37] <hamitron> better be haz
[00:37] <hamitron> ;)
[00:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: you heard it yet?
[00:37] <hamitron> downloading
[00:37] <hamitron> ;/
[00:37] <HazRPG> heh :P
[00:37] <hamitron> it is 4Mb man
[00:38] <HazRPG> hamitron: what connection are you on?
[00:38]  * hamitron looks
[00:38] <hamitron> 300kbps \o/
[00:38] <hamitron> not great today
[00:38] <hamitron> :/
[00:38] <HazRPG> :double-takes:
[00:38] <HazRPG> what??
[00:38] <HazRPG> how??
[00:38] <hamitron> distance from exchange
[00:39] <HazRPG> ouch
[00:39] <hamitron> it sometimes gets to 2mbit
[00:39] <HazRPG> I like your choice of words there hamitron
[00:39] <hamitron> but officially I can expect no more than 0.8mbit
[00:39] <hamitron> hmm?
[00:39] <hamitron> oh, it is rocky
[00:40] <HazRPG> you used the word "sometimes"
[00:40] <hamitron> ah :)
[00:40] <hamitron> I think it was the correct word...
[00:40] <HazRPG> that's what I meant
[00:40] <HazRPG> hmm... must suck sometimes being an ubuntu user then?
[00:41] <hamitron> why?
[00:41] <HazRPG> download updates/patches/software
[00:41] <hamitron> I tell you what sucks more... when some idiots call an ISO image i386 and it is for i686 only... when I have i586 machines mostly
[00:41] <hamitron> wasted effort :/
[00:42] <HazRPG> ouch
[00:42]  * hamitron spits at centos guys
[00:42] <HazRPG> most ubuntu's are i386 though - unless I'm mistaken
[00:42] <hamitron> ubuntu is fine for that
[00:42] <hamitron> :)
[00:43] <hamitron> but I've downloaded 8 cd ISO files on this connection for centos
[00:43] <hamitron> :(
[00:43] <HazRPG> heh, yeah been tempted to test CentOS... but after finding out that it was the O/S my webhost uses, I decided against it
[00:43] <hamitron> could do without that
[00:43] <hamitron> I need a replacement for debian 5.0 and ubuntu 8.04
[00:43] <HazRPG> mainly cos my webhost kinda sucks
[00:43] <HazRPG> www.goohost.co.uk
[00:44] <HazRPG> took me 2 months to get my account up n running properly when I started with them
[00:44] <hamitron> £99?
[00:44] <hamitron> :|
[00:44] <HazRPG> its fine now, and it truly is unlimited (tested that theory a few times)
[00:45] <HazRPG> I didn't like the price rise they did though, because they said it would only be £49 a year
[00:45] <hamitron> I just use my ISP webspace atm
[00:45] <HazRPG> and when £99 came out of my account I complained like no tomorrow!
[00:45] <hamitron> but got a vps... so dunno how long I can resist moving it
[00:45] <hamitron> :)
[00:46] <HazRPG> lol
[00:46] <hamitron> not a bad song
[00:46] <hamitron> don't understand it though
[00:46] <hamitron> ;)
[00:46] <HazRPG> me either
[00:46] <HazRPG> google translate doesn't help much either xD
[00:47] <hamitron> goohost sounds like google...
[00:47] <HazRPG> I still keep meaning to find a new host for my sites, something reasonable since I don't get a lot of traffic on them
[00:47] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah I know, tell me about it
[00:47] <hamitron> the logo looks like it too
[00:47] <hamitron> well, icon
[00:48] <hamitron> a big blue G
[00:48] <hamitron> :)
[00:48] <hamitron> bit of red and green in borders too
[00:48] <HazRPG> hamitron: I gurantee you its not though - its some guy in his house I think... or at least that's where the number leads to... cos I rang from support once and his daughter answered the phone xD
[00:48] <hamitron> hehe
[00:49] <hamitron> my vps is only £10 per year
[00:49] <hamitron> :)
[00:50] <HazRPG> really?
[00:50] <HazRPG> what do you get for that?
[00:50] <hamitron> 128Mb ram
[00:50] <hamitron> 256mb burst
[00:50] <HazRPG> burst ?
[00:50] <HazRPG> as in when it goes on fire ?
[00:50] <hamitron> :))
[00:51] <hamitron> 15gb hdd
[00:51] <hamitron> 500gb bandwidth a month
[00:51] <HazRPG> that's not bad
[00:51] <HazRPG> do you have to setup everything yourself?
[00:51] <HazRPG> apache etc
[00:52] <hamitron> yeh
[00:52] <HazRPG> interesting
[00:53] <HazRPG> heh, technically your playing the same amount as me p.a. then :)
[00:54] <hamitron> I pay £10 per year...
[00:54] <HazRPG> ... oh
[00:54] <HazRPG> wow
[00:54] <HazRPG> how!?
[00:54] <hamitron> www.buyvm.net
[00:54] <HazRPG> you doing naughty things with the manager ;)?
[00:54] <hamitron> not sure if it is to be releyed on
[00:54] <hamitron> relied*
[00:55] <hamitron> it is almost too cheap to be good
[00:55] <HazRPG> heh, its out of stock for that one anyways xD
[00:56] <hamitron> oh :/
[00:56] <hamitron> I was checking their site every week
[00:56] <hamitron> as I had been waiting for months to get one
[00:56] <HazRPG> wow, out of stock for everything!
[00:56] <hamitron> and I just spotted it the day more stock arrived
[00:56] <hamitron> :)
[00:57] <shauno> maybe if they didn't charge less than a buck a month, they'd be able to afford more hosts ;)
[00:57] <hamitron> shauno: be quiet ;/
[00:57] <shauno> :p
[00:57] <hamitron> I like it the way it is
[00:57] <shauno> curious, do you know where (ish) the server's physically located?
[00:57] <hamitron> US I think
[00:59] <hamitron> or canada
[00:59] <hamitron> ;/
[01:01] <hamitron> I doubt it is the best service, but cheaper than most shell accounts
[01:04]  * hamitron sighs
[01:06] <HazRPG> so wait, what are you limited to with VPS exactly?
[01:07] <HazRPG> or rather, what CAN you do with them?
[01:07] <hamitron> I can't change the kernel
[01:07] <HazRPG> (still hasn't explored using linux server's yet)
[01:07] <ali1234> gord: you are right
[01:07] <hamitron> I also have to be careful of cpu use
[01:07] <ali1234> this isn't linear interpolation
[01:07] <HazRPG> hamitron: does it not physically let you?
[01:08] <HazRPG> hamitron: how so?
[01:08] <hamitron> I think they disable your account if you start affecting other customers on the same node
[01:08] <HazRPG> ah
[01:09] <hamitron> but I am only using 8.5Mb of 256Mb RAM atm
[01:09] <shauno> I haven't run into any real limitations with vps, other than "being polite to your neighbours" becomes a considerations
[01:09] <hamitron> :)
[01:09] <hamitron> they are easier to format and reboot, than a normal server
[01:09] <hamitron> :)
[01:11] <hamitron> my main problem has been my dsl connection since I got mine :/
[01:11] <HazRPG> I've been meaning to put ESXi onto my home server I have which currently hosts out one of my websites - I mainly using it for my current projects I have on the go, and get others to test it
[01:11] <hamitron> not able to properly play
[01:12] <HazRPG> only problem is, each time I try to install ESXi, it says - "not enough RAM"
[01:12] <hamitron> :/
[01:12] <HazRPG> but doesn't say how much I need :/
[01:12] <hamitron> how much you got?
[01:12] <HazRPG> erm... not sure xD
[01:13] <hamitron> hehe
[01:13] <hamitron> my servers only have 256Mb
[01:13] <HazRPG> hold, I'll remote into it (it has no monitor)
[01:13] <HazRPG> 1GB of RAM
[01:13] <HazRPG> but it's a proper DELL server I got for £100, when it was on offer
[01:14] <hamitron> I got a 420SC poweredge \o/
[01:14] <HazRPG> Dual-Core AMD Opteron 1212
[01:14] <hamitron> nice
[01:14] <hamitron> celeron 2.53ghz
[01:14] <hamitron> :/
[01:14] <HazRPG> runs @ 2.01GHz I think
[01:15] <hamitron> but I have moved everything over to a NAS with a 300mhz cpu
[01:15] <hamitron> :)
[01:15] <hamitron> seems to run well
[01:15] <HazRPG> I think... according to this CD I have from there
[01:15] <HazRPG> its a Dell PowerEdge T100 ? or maybe T110?
[01:17] <hamitron> better than mine :/
[01:17] <hamitron> mine was £99
[01:17] <hamitron> but worked out £204 after a few bits and delivery
[01:17] <hamitron> mainly docs and cd
[01:19] <HazRPG> heh, I just got bog standard stuff
[01:20] <HazRPG> ok, based on the info I can find, it must be the T100 - but with AMD instead of Intel processor
[01:20] <hamitron> cheapest standard setup was £350
[01:20] <hamitron> and when I saw £99
[01:20] <hamitron> :)
[01:20] <hamitron> I had to replace my old K6-2 comp I was using as a server
[01:20] <HazRPG> oh, see mine was standard of £99
[01:20] <HazRPG> but it was on offer like I said
[01:21] <hamitron> I keep considering putting more RAM in
[01:21] <hamitron> but it works as is with 256mb
[01:21] <hamitron> only reason i need more, is to run remote X apps
[01:22] <HazRPG> heh, wait, apparently I paid £190.35 for it (just checked e-mail)
[01:22] <hamitron> sounds about right
[01:22] <hamitron> :)
[01:22] <HazRPG> cos I opt-ed for the extra hard drive
[01:22] <hamitron> my paper manual cost £15
[01:22] <hamitron> :/
[01:23] <hamitron> I also added a floppy drive
[01:23] <hamitron> erm
[01:23] <HazRPG> I have many floppy drives, so I didn't see the need to add one ^^
[01:23] <hamitron> lazyness
[01:23] <hamitron> :)
[01:23] <HazRPG> man, I still have a stack of floppies that I have used since 1995
[01:23] <HazRPG> or possibly 1993
[01:24] <HazRPG> haven't*
[01:24] <HazRPG> also, it was a T105 I got
[01:24] <HazRPG> needs more RAM though if I want to try out ESXi
[01:24] <HazRPG> and holy cow, I might try ESXi right now!
[01:24] <hamitron> :)
[01:25] <hamitron> I have no need to virtualise comps here
[01:25] <HazRPG> my new build PC is 6GB of RAM xD
[01:25] <hamitron> 22 comps in this house ;)
[01:25] <HazRPG> woah nice :P
[01:25] <HazRPG> where's that ESXi disc I burned ages ago...
[01:25] <hamitron> is it free?
[01:26] <HazRPG> hell yeah
[01:26] <HazRPG> I wouldn't use it if it wasn't xD
[01:26] <hamitron> :)
[01:27] <hamitron> tight bugger ;)
[01:27] <hamitron> bad as me
[01:27] <HazRPG> :P
[01:27] <HazRPG> http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere-hypervisor/index.html
[01:28] <HazRPG> however, although it's a light-weight virtual server thinger
[01:28] <HazRPG> (only needs like 42MB of HDD space or something)
[01:28] <HazRPG> it won't install with 1GB of RAM on my server... must be because people who use it, deploy several servers on it
[01:29] <hamitron> tbh, seems like overkill to me
[01:29] <HazRPG> needing more than 1GB?
[01:29] <HazRPG> its because some people use windows server with it
[01:29] <HazRPG> and well, that's a mega RAM hog
[01:29] <hamitron> no, just running ESXi at home
[01:29] <hamitron> ;)
[01:30] <HazRPG> heh, I'm currently doing a freelance project - and hope to actually run my own business from home
[01:31] <HazRPG> so would be nice to be able to deploy servers onto my server for testing, and so that if anyone ever asks "do you know how to setup x server with x O/S" I'll be like "yup, when can I start?"
[01:31] <hamitron> guess so
[01:31] <hamitron> :)
[01:32] <HazRPG> also means I can finally test a linux server distro (several at a time) while keeping my win server on there that I know how to manage
[01:33] <hamitron> win server :(
[01:33] <hamitron> I never had a copy
[01:33] <HazRPG> yeah I know, sadly :(
[01:33] <HazRPG> I got one free from uni
[01:33] <hamitron> ah :)
[01:33] <HazRPG> only valid for another year
[01:33] <HazRPG> so time is ticking
[01:33] <hamitron> I used to hang around in the unix lab with people from that crowd
[01:34] <hamitron> so to go ask for a windows disk...
[01:34] <hamitron> would of been slaughtered
[01:34] <HazRPG> heh, see we don't ask... we're all automatically registered with MSDNAA
[01:34] <HazRPG> so we get to pick what we want
[01:34] <hamitron> ah, nice
[01:35] <HazRPG> main reason we're registered on it, is so we can download Visual Studio for our C++ lessons
[01:35] <hamitron> we used borland
[01:35] <hamitron> :/
[01:36] <HazRPG> personally I'd rather use DevC++ because that's what I've been using for years
[01:36] <hamitron> and now I use gcc for current work
[01:36] <HazRPG> nice
[01:36] <HazRPG> my hope is to switch to gcc
[01:36] <HazRPG> DevC++ is sort of gcc
[01:36] <HazRPG> but for a windows o/s
[01:36] <hamitron> I tried it in my early days
[01:37] <hamitron> I hate IDE
[01:37] <hamitron> ;/
[01:37] <HazRPG> wow you used borland?
[01:37] <HazRPG> I used that for Java
[01:37] <HazRPG> at college :/
[01:37] <HazRPG> I managed to force then to use netbeans by like the 2nd month of it
[01:38] <hamitron> I hated the IDE so much, I chose to use the commandline tools
[01:38] <hamitron> :)
[01:38] <HazRPG> just cos people weren't allowed to take borland home
[01:38] <hamitron> but that was the fault of linux
[01:38] <HazRPG> :P
[01:38] <hamitron> I got used to a commandline :/
[01:39] <HazRPG> yeah I still essentially code in text-editors for html/php/css stuff
[01:39] <hamitron> gah, html
[01:39] <hamitron> :/
[01:39] <hamitron> I need to make a webpage
[01:39] <hamitron> and cba with fancy
[01:39] <HazRPG> for what? :P
[01:40] <hamitron> for project work
[01:40] <hamitron> demo files
[01:40] <HazRPG> what you studying?
[01:40] <hamitron> I'm doing a single module in the engineering department atm
[01:41] <hamitron> not a full time student
[01:41] <HazRPG> ah cool, didn't think you could do that
[01:41] <hamitron> you just pay them, and they let you
[01:41] <hamitron> ;)
[01:41] <HazRPG> might take penetration testing once I'm finished then :P
[01:42] <HazRPG> sounds so naughty, but it isn't
[01:42] <hamitron> :)
[01:42] <HazRPG> its about security
[01:42] <HazRPG> I wanted to do it this year, but couldn't timetable it in with the rest, so had to pick agile systems instead :/
[01:42] <hamitron> :\
[01:43] <HazRPG> its torture, this will be my 7year in college/uni
[01:43] <hamitron> I personally don't care for modules I don't learn, can be self taught mostly
[01:43] <hamitron> I only did 3 years
[01:43] <HazRPG> some things are better when your being pushed in the right direction
[01:44] <HazRPG> this is my final year for a degree
[01:44] <HazRPG> before that I was doing HND stuff
[01:44] <hamitron> ah, I did A levels
[01:44] <HazRPG> yeah was going to say, before that was a level
[01:45] <hamitron> but at uni, I did learn a lot
[01:45] <hamitron> but everything I did, was not in enough detail to use
[01:45] <hamitron> gotta go away and properly learn it I find :)
[01:45] <hamitron> my C modules was pathetic
[01:45] <hamitron> were*
[01:46] <hamitron> problem is books cost so much :/
[01:47] <devush> use ebooks!
[01:47] <hamitron> they aren't much cheaper
[01:47] <hamitron> and not as nice to read
[01:47] <devush> i mean the web resources.
[01:47] <devush> on programming always enough.
[01:47] <hamitron> still not as easy to sit down in the garden and read
[01:47] <devush> actually we have to learn using documentation etc.
[01:47] <hamitron> :)
[01:48] <devush> this is how they also write the books
[01:48] <devush> well as far as the programming is concern, you just do not read, but write the code.
[01:48] <devush> occasionally reading.
[01:48] <devush> but reading generally for syntax.
[01:48] <hamitron> I'm reading a good book on optimising mathematics atm
[01:48] <hamitron> ;)
[01:49] <devush> basics are same from the 1/2 year college etc.
[01:49] <devush> atm?
[01:49] <HazRPG> get a kindle!
[01:49] <HazRPG> that's what I plan to get when I get paid for this project :P
[01:49] <hamitron> kindle would not work for me
[01:49] <devush> well good idea.
[01:49] <devush> but i have kindle.
[01:50] <hamitron> I like to have 6 or 7 books open, and referencing from them all
[01:50] <hamitron> :)
[01:50] <devush> and i use that only for most of the text only books novels etc.
[01:50] <devush> still pdfs are better. due to the screen.
[01:50] <devush> e.g. my java code wraps to the next line on kindle. so not so much useful.
[01:50] <devush> but it just saves time in commuting.
[01:51] <devush> it take 5-10 to start reading again in tube etc.
[01:51] <hamitron> I get enough time to look at a screen, using a computer for work ;)
[01:51] <hamitron> reading a book is a "rest" for the eyes
[01:52] <devush> i used to print a lot of material. we have free printing service in college. and then in company it was not a problem.
[01:52] <devush> that is why i used to print in early days.
[01:52] <devush> still i do, but some good articles etc.
[01:53] <devush> anybody using 10.10 on HP tx2 here
[01:53] <hamitron> I have stopped getting linux format now
[01:53] <devush> what do you mean linux format
[01:53] <hamitron> a monthly mag
[01:53] <hamitron> :)
[01:54] <devush> oh i see
[01:54] <HazRPG> I use to love that mag
[01:54] <hamitron> http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/lappy.jpg
[01:54] <hamitron> behind the lappy
[01:54] <devush> oh dear.
[01:54] <devush> it looks like my collection of iX back in germany.
[01:55] <devush> but i used to buy every thursday or so.
[01:55] <hamitron> :)
[01:55] <devush> that time ubuntu was not there . it was SuSE world
[01:55] <HazRPG> heh
[01:55] <hamitron> I've stopped subscribing to it
[01:55] <devush> used to buy the SuSE distribution from the Shop. back in 98-99.
[01:56] <hamitron> and now I just buy a few reference books each year
[01:56] <devush> now probably you have to subscribe to one particular topic. as there are so many areas.
[01:56] <hamitron> I choose the topics I want to learn in detail, yes
[01:56] <devush> BTW. i never heard or read - linux format.   sorry not so long here in uk.
[01:57] <hamitron> but the mag just skimmed the surface of lots of things
[01:57] <ball> brb
[01:58] <devush> I see you have opensuse DVD/CD also in your picture
[01:58] <devush> so any body with HP Tx2 laptop using 10.10.
[01:58] <devush> i had constant problems with mouse.
[01:59] <devush> i managed to revert back to 10.04 and now all working again.
[01:59] <HazRPG> nah, I'm currently running it on a desktop
[01:59] <hamitron> :/
[01:59] <HazRPG> well 2 desktops
[01:59] <devush> ok.
[01:59] <HazRPG> one's a P4 and ones an i7
[01:59] <devush> ok. you got fast stuffs.
[02:00] <hamitron> I've moved to Debian on my old systems now
[02:00] <hamitron> :/
[02:00] <devush> i am running it on Windows XP - vmware.
[02:00] <HazRPG> debian has less requirements
[02:00] <hamitron> debian has older X.org
[02:00] <hamitron> :)
[02:00] <hamitron> but gonna change to Wary Puppy 5.0 I think
[02:01] <devush> i do not like the puppy interface.
[02:01] <hamitron> me neither
[02:01] <hamitron> :/
[02:01] <devush> do not know about the Wary puppy.
[02:01] <hamitron> but ubuntu stops support for 8.04 soon
[02:01] <devush> is it the same original puppy. or some thing new
[02:01] <HazRPG> I hate puppy interface too
[02:01] <hamitron> and debian 5.0 will end soon
[02:03] <hamitron> but if you try standise a lot of systems around some hardware, and new software will not work with that hardware, you look for alternatives
[02:04] <devush> what text editor you people use.
[02:04] <devush> is that gedit.
[02:04] <devush> anybody on geany etc.
[02:04] <hamitron> nano and vi
[02:04] <hamitron> :/
[02:04] <HazRPG> gedit/scite
[02:04] <devush> scite. never heard.
[02:04] <devush> is it good
[02:04] <HazRPG> I like it
[02:05] <HazRPG> not sure if there's a linux version, but the source is out there though
[02:05] <HazRPG> http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
[02:05] <devush> oh. i checked. it is based on Scintilla.
[02:05] <HazRPG> apprently it must be
[02:06] <devush> i have used it a lot on windows.
[02:06] <devush> about 8-9 years ago. i think.
[02:07] <devush> i am happy with gedit. and some plugins around that.
[02:07] <devush> but earlier i tried geany. it has programming support - good.
[02:07] <HazRPG> might have to try that
[02:07] <HazRPG> I use atana too though
[02:07] <devush> i am on java mainly
[02:07] <HazRPG> for an alternative to dreamweaver - though does so much more
[02:08] <devush> i have used vi for over 10 years, but not in the last 8-9 years.
[02:08] <devush> as i used windows - due to the work. and now getting back on the linux/ubuntu etc.
[02:12] <hamitron> grrr
[02:14] <devush> for the web editing mainly the CSS etc. which editor you propose.
[02:15] <HazRPG> like I said I started using aptana
[02:15] <devush> i use eclipse for java. but some of the code - html/css need better editor
[02:15] <HazRPG> aptana has two versions, standalone or a plugin for eclipse
[02:16] <devush> ok. is it free.
[02:16] <devush> looks good on web. i will give the try.
[02:17] <ball> devush: I use joe for that.
[02:17] <HazRPG> I'm using the beta of aptana 3, mainly for php stuff
[02:19] <HazRPG> joe?
[02:19] <devush> joe - does it supports color syntax highlights etc.
[02:20] <hamitron> I forgot about joe \o/
[02:22] <hamitron> anyways
[02:22] <hamitron> sleep time
[02:22] <hamitron> o/
[02:24] <devush> yes. good night.
[02:24] <devush> bye
[02:42] <HazRPG> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2010/12/09/white-trash-repairs-nailed-it/
[03:14] <HazRPG> hmm anyone noticed a bug in chrome?
[03:14] <HazRPG> where if you stop syncing it just seems to freeze the app
[03:16] <HazRPG> I just force quit it, and now when it loads it just says "Your profile could not be opened correctly."
[03:23] <HazRPG> nevermind, turns out chrome hadn't closed properly - closed all running processes, and that fixed it
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> \o/ 3g + laptop
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> (no power)
[07:07] <HazRPG> is 32-bit ubuntu or 64-bit ubuntu better for 6GB RAM and an i7?
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if your CPU is 64-bit capable (and i7 is), use 64-bit Ubuntu
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> unless you have really good/specific reasons to stick to 32-bit
[07:07] <HazRPG> ah cool
[07:08] <HazRPG> would there be any reason to stick to 32bit?
[07:08] <MartijnVdS> some closed-source progams need libraries that are only available in 32-bit
[07:08] <HazRPG> cos I remember people use to recommend 32-bit to me ages ago when I was using core 2 duo
[07:08] <MartijnVdS> but you could hack around that
[07:09] <HazRPG> cool
[07:53] <davmor2> Morning all
[07:54]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she is still with us
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> does anyone else with Natty have those annoying bottom-right corners on windows?
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> Even on gnome-panel's panels...
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Just discovered http://www.ncftp.com/ncftp/doc/ncftpput.html - This should solve my problem - has a recursive copy function... Hope the gremlins are away today.
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: lftp can do it as well
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but lftp is not as easy to script.
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> ♥
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: then I'd use LWP :)
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: but I'm a Perl man
[08:04] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: \o
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
[08:05] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: glad to hear you might of got it fixed :)
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am just about to login to the server and try it out.
[08:07] <screen-x> Anothing bonding question... on a machine with 2 nvidia NICs and 2 intel NICs, why does the bonding driver give more traffic to the intel interfaces? http://paste.ubuntu.com/556089/
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> which ones are intel? :)
[08:08] <screen-x> top line of paste :)
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: look at the rx-bytes.. looks like that counts as an "event" as ewll
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: interfaces have either high RX or high TX
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> so.. ARP issue on the other end?
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> or expected behaviour?
[08:10] <screen-x> interesting, I haven't really used link aggregation before, but I guess it could use some channels for tx, and some for rx, but that would a waste of duplex.
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> true
[08:10] <screen-x> *would be
[08:10] <screen-x> maybe it will all even out over time, that box has only been up a few mins.
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: try switching the cables around :)
[08:11] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: heh, I've removed all the cables a pair at a time, and it copes well :)
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> failover \o/
[08:11]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2
[08:12] <davmor2> nice natty feature, when the app launcher is hidden if your pinged on irc the xchat icon siddles onto the screen to let you know
[08:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: Yay! you're still breathin', I haven't got to find someone else to pick on ;)
[08:13] <czajkowski> nope
[08:13] <czajkowski> still here, still spluttering
[08:23] <HazRPG> hey guys, interesting question for ya... relating ping. If a guy with 1Mbps connection pinging google.com and a guy pinging 8Mbps connection pinging google.com, would the time (in ms) be different... assuming that it is found in exactly the same location, and same computer and hardware being used along the same ISP
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that depends :)
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: more bandwidth doesn't automatically mean less latency
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> it could, but it doesn't have to
[08:23] <HazRPG> ah cool thanks
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> (imagine a truck full of hard disks: ping is awful but bandwidth is amazing)
[08:24] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: great analogy :)
[08:24] <HazRPG> fantastic analogy
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> stolen analogy ;)
[08:24] <HazRPG> :P
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1996). Computer Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. pp. 83. ISBN 0-13-349945-6.
[08:25]  * MartijnVdS steals only from the best :P
[08:25] <screen-x> :)
[08:25] <HazRPG> haha win
[08:26] <HazRPG> anyways thanks, that just proves my point well for my friend
[08:26] <HazRPG> he's having latency issues
[08:26] <HazRPG> he's in egypt
[08:26] <HazRPG> and he's getting like ~500ms in-game and tracert shows ~250ms
[08:26] <HazRPG> to the same destination
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufferbloat
[08:27] <HazRPG> he's on a 2Mbps connection at the moment, and neither of us can work it out
[08:28] <HazRPG> I told him to replace his long telephone wire between the router and wall socket, and instead have a longer ethernet cable to try and reduce noise on the line (which solved his drop outs)
[08:28] <HazRPG> but he's still having latency issues
[08:28] <HazRPG> and its only really started over the last month or so, he never had issues before that (even with the long telephone line cable)
[08:28] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could try using "mtr" to see at which hop the latency is introduced
[08:28] <HazRPG> he's in windows sadly
[08:28] <MartijnVdS> could it be a "government firewall", or incompetent ISP?
[08:29] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG:  http://winmtr.net/
[08:29] <screen-x> HazRPG: you could run an mtr from you to him.
[08:29] <HazRPG> could be either of those things
[08:31] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: interesting wikipedia link, who would have thought you could have too much buffer? and that not dropping packets causes problems!
[08:31] <HazRPG> ok, the latency between me and him seem to happen at the IP <IP_ADDRESS>, just as its leaving the Telia network
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: I read about it on planet gnome or debian
[08:31] <bigcalm> Morning healthy people
[08:31] <HazRPG> morning
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: Jim Gettys explained the whole thing on his blog
[08:31] <screen-x> oh dear, wassup bigcalm?
[08:32] <bigcalm> Caught a virus. Hopefully just a cold and nothing else
[08:32] <bigcalm> But I had intended to drive up to Edinburgh on Friday evening. This is what annoys me the most
[08:32] <screen-x> we'll send danfish round later on.
[08:32] <screen-x> :(
[08:37] <HazRPG> hmmm, this is all interesting
[08:38] <HazRPG> I wonder if there's anything I do to help me
[08:38] <HazRPG> I mean going from 82ms average to 300-500ms average is a bit much
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: poke the people that manage the hop that increases latency most
[08:39] <HazRPG> xD
[08:44] <DJones> Morning
[08:44] <bigcalm> Evening
[08:46] <Myrtti> myyh
[08:47] <bigcalm> Hi Myrtti. Feeling better?
[08:48] <Myrtti> marginally so
[08:48] <Myrtti> probably only because I've not really tried to turn my head yet
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it's improvement! improvement is good!
[08:51]  * DJones offers Myrtti a swivel chair to save her needing to turn her head, although it won't help with looking up & down
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> DJones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> chair in the middle -> done!
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerotrim
[08:55] <DJones> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK3R2R9aTHc I want one :)
[09:01] <daubers> Morning all
[09:03] <popey> hullo hullo!
[09:06] <popey> hi DaveMorris
[09:06] <gord> morning all
[09:06] <popey> A hoi hoi!
[09:07] <DJones> Morning Mr Burns
[09:07] <popey> Exxxxxxcelent
[09:10]  * gord gets a cup of tea and starts doing a round of merge request reviewing so we can release unity later today
[09:10] <popey> \o/
[09:10]  * popey cracks the whip
[09:10] <popey> get to it man!
[09:11] <hoover> mornin folks
[09:12] <dwatkins> hiya
[09:12] <danfish> morning
[09:12]  * danfish senses that popey maybe in a good/hyper mood again :)
[09:13] <screen-x> hi daubers
[09:13] <screen-x> do you use ethernet bonding?
[09:13] <daubers> screen-x: Yup
[09:14] <popey> :)
[09:14]  * popey heads to the vet
[09:14] <screen-x> daubers: I've been testing with a couple of servers, but can't get above 940mbits/s with a 4 link bond :(
[09:15] <screen-x> daubers: that's measuring with iperf, and using bonding mode 4 which is lacp/802.3ad
[09:16] <daubers> screen-x: Is this essentially one server to one client?
[09:16] <screen-x> daubers: at the moment yes, just testing with two servers
[09:16] <daubers> In that case you won't.
[09:16] <daubers> It balances using the client/destination mac/ip addresses
[09:17] <daubers> If you look at the traffic coming in/out each port using something like dstat you'll see you'll have one port as the up and one as the down
[09:17] <daubers> if you add another client you'll get another port being used as up as well as the first and so on
[09:18] <screen-x> daubers: ah, so you never get more than 1 links worth of bandwidth between two machines?
[09:18] <daubers> screen-x: Yup
[09:19] <screen-x> oh :( I wanted to be able to create aggregate connections between the VM hosts and the file server
[09:19] <daubers> screen-x: If you had no switch in the middle you could use balance RR on the server to a balance RR bond on the client, that will give you more bandwidth
[09:21] <screen-x> daubers: that's a possibility, thanks.
[09:24] <daubers> screen-x: A more upgradable option would be to look at 10GbE, though the switches can be a bit expensive
[09:25] <screen-x> yeah, not an option here yet..
[09:25] <daubers> heh :)
[09:25] <daubers> i think the PCI-E cards are ~£500 at the moment for cx4 ones
[09:25] <daubers> Might be a bit less than that now though
[09:31] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[09:39] <czajkowski> Myrtti: still no relief
[09:40] <czajkowski> maybe from holding the head still it's putting more tension on it
[09:40] <davmor2> hello again now millbank
[09:41] <Myrtti> czajkowski: still no relief... contemplating on finding out if there's a A&E somewhere if they could inject the muscle with relaxant or something, this is getting a bit old now
[09:42] <czajkowski> Myrtti: aye that might help
[09:42] <czajkowski> this is why I travel with muscle relaxant pain killers
[09:47] <DJones> Myrtti: Maybe a massage would help, if I have problems with my back/neck I get my wife who's a trained sports therapist to do the massage, hurts like hell while she's doing it and for another 24 hours, but seems to ease it quite quickly after that
[09:54] <gord> sure do wish it would get warmer =\
[09:55] <awilkins> danfish, May have some progress on using  .... ahem ... a certain mail server ... in OSS tools.
[09:55] <awilkins> danfish, Don't really have time for implementation ATM though
[09:55] <Myrtti> gord: I was just reading http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2011/01/osi-and-fsf-in-unprecedented-collaboration-to-protect-software-freedom/index.htm and thought "that's why it's so chilly here then"
[09:56] <HazRPG> woot, my giffgaff SIM arrived :D hurray!
[09:56] <gord> ha
[09:56] <danfish> awilkins: ooh - interesting
[09:56] <danfish> awilkins: can I be of help?
[09:57] <awilkins> danfish, Pages I think are relevant ;  http://www.msexchange.org/articles/Redirecting-OWA-Users-Correct-Directories-Protocols-Part2.html  http://blogs.interknowlogy.com/timmccarthy/archive/2006/08/05/3659.aspx
[09:58] <awilkins> Executive summary ; when you configure Evolution to use it's OWA plugin, you get past the first login if you do it right (change your username to your full email address), then it prompts you again
[09:58] <awilkins> I reckon the second one is this CookieAuth.dll authentication step failing
[09:58] <awilkins> The cookie thing seems to be the vital missing step
[10:00] <awilkins> The second link has a C# implementation that caches the cookies so a session can use them.
[10:01] <awilkins> I wonder if you just try configuring the cookie page...
[10:01] <danfish> It might be possible
[10:03] <awilkins> Well, the cookie page thing was a silly idea ; didn't think that would work
[10:03] <awilkins> But an implementation that is aware of the cookie thing and caches cookies might well work
[10:04] <danfish> it would be interesting to have another look at the android mail app code and compare
[10:04] <awilkins> danfish, Isn't that an activesync client?
[10:19] <HazRPG> wow, I'm really not liking the weather this year
[10:19] <danfish> awilkins: yeah, you're right. It is an activesync client/server
[10:19] <HazRPG> thought it started to get warmer quick, but its dropped back down to -3'c
[10:20] <danfish> (on the android)
[10:20] <HazRPG> had to sit and defrost the car :/
[10:20] <n1md4> Hello.  I'm after a bug tracker, not for software development though (aka bugzilla), but for hardware/firmware/kernel issues.  Any suggestions?
[10:23] <bigcalm> trac is a good tracker
[10:25] <danfish> awilkins: so no point in comparing! D'oh!
[10:25] <DJones> Argh. Go away toothache
[10:25] <awilkins> danfish, Yeah ; the eas server isn't behind this "cookiewall" anyway
[10:28] <Knightradio> Morning
[10:29] <andylockran> Greetings Earthlings
[10:30] <Knightradio> Hey andy
[10:30] <DJones> Morning Knightradio
[10:31] <andylockran> Guys, any recommendations on an Android 2.2 Phone with at least 640x480 res.
[10:32] <bigcalm> Nexus One :D
[10:32] <DJones> andylockran: Desire HD, pretty sure that meets the 640x480 resolution, had one for 3 months, absolutely no complaints about it at all
[10:33] <DJones> Yep, 800x480
[10:33] <gord> nexus one/htc desire/desire HD, samsung galaxy S or Nexus S
[10:33] <gord> they are all pretty good phones but the nexus/desire range are getting kinda slow now
[10:34] <DJones> Maybe Dell Streak, but I don't think thats been updated to 2.2 yet
[10:36] <DJones> When I was getting mine, my shortlist was Streak/Desire HD/Nexus One/Galaxy S, I ruled the streak out because of the older version of Android
[10:37] <Knightradio> I
[10:37] <DJones> But there wasn't much to choose between the other 3, Galaxy S had a front facing camera as well for video calls and there was something that the HD had that the others didn't
[10:38] <gord> galaxy S has a lot going for it, if i had a choice now i would prolly go for the Nexus S/Galaxy S
[10:40] <DJones> Must admit, despite how good the galaxy s looks & sounds, I've still not met anybody who's bought one
[10:41] <bigcalm> Sil has
[10:41] <gord> samsung kinda missed the boat, i know a few owners of S's but those people are late bloomers when it comes to adopting new things
[10:44] <popey> My boss asked for recommendations for video cameras
[10:44] <popey> is it bad that I gave him amazon links which use my affiliate code? :)
[10:45] <bigcalm> popey: never
[10:46] <popey> i mean, I did the research :)
[10:46] <popey> Muhahahah!
[10:46] <popey> that cookie will live on his browser for a month
[10:46] <popey> hope he buys stuff
[10:46] <screen-x> popey: does he loose anything by using your link?
[10:46] <popey> nope
[10:46] <screen-x> no problem then :)
[10:48] <screen-x> just tried to install a server into our rack, but it has new fangled rails that don't fit :(
[10:50] <danfish> screen-x: just get a big hammer and give it a nudge or 2 :P
[10:51] <popey> "nudge" :)
[10:51] <screen-x> danfish: I did my equivalent, which was to get a slightly less subtle colleague to have a try ;-)
[10:52] <screen-x> not going to work though, prob have to get the supplier to swap them.
[10:55] <andylockran> screen-x: what doesn't fit?
[10:55] <andylockran> I only realised recently that the holes up and down the side of the cabinet weren't uniformly spaced.
[10:55] <andylockran> They were in groups of 4...
[10:56] <screen-x> andylockran: http://i.imgur.com/1i4By.jpg
[10:56] <HazRPG> slighly off topic, but this is funny as anything! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDyRF8duOc
[10:56] <Myrtti> graaaaaaaa
[10:57] <screen-x> s
[10:57] <HazRPG> btw, it is SFW - found it off the giffgaff site xD
[10:59] <andylockran> screen-x: yup, no chance :(
[11:10] <Myrtti> meh
[11:24] <brobostigon> morning all.
[11:29] <AlanBell> popey: ping
[11:30] <AlanBell> or in fact anyone
[11:30] <popey> o/
[11:31] <AlanBell> need to get our logo in eps format to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:31] <andylockran> galaxy S or HTC Desire HD I think.
[11:31] <AlanBell> for the expo show
[11:31] <AlanBell> and I can't do it today
[11:31] <andylockran> AlanBell: yup.
[11:33] <AlanBell> the svg of our logo should be on the wiki
[11:33] <AlanBell> I don't have a browser or inkscape right now
[11:34] <popey> which logo?
[11:34] <AlanBell> just irc on the olpc
[11:34] <AlanBell> the ubuntu-uk logo
[11:34] <popey> with the union flag in it?
[11:34] <AlanBell> erm, the new one we voted on
[11:35]  * brobostigon cant remember whatthat note tking software is.
[11:35] <popey> tomboy
[11:35] <brobostigon> cheers popey :)
[11:35] <popey> AlanBell: the one in the beta site?
[11:36]  * brobostigon gets popey some chocolate.
[11:36] <AlanBell> wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam
[11:37] <AlanBell>  /Logo
[11:37] <X3N> Is anyone going to organise a post expo drinking point?
[11:37] <AlanBell> X3N: yes
[11:37] <popey> it needs organising?
[11:37] <AlanBell> but organise is a bit strong
[11:37] <X3N> Well, I'd need to know where to go in advance was all I was thinking
[11:38] <X3N> guess I can just ask in here and hope someone replies
[11:38] <AlanBell> pick a pub near the barbican, put it in the etherpad
[11:39] <andylockran> anyone heading to the IRX expo in Birmingham on the 23,24th March ?
[11:39] <SuperMatt> I've just had a thought, I don't know if this is in any way possible, but can you have gnome terminal switch profile or background colour or something when you're ssh'd to another box?
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> The St. Pauls Tavern was nice but I think it has been knocked down now :-( And "The Vaults" was a great pub too, under the brewery, but that is now a "club".
[11:39] <jacobw> SuperMatt: profiles
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work on Chiswell Street.
[11:40] <SuperMatt> jacobw: I know I can create a new profile, but can I get it to change profile when I ssh to somewhere?
[11:49] <popey> AlanBell: so anyway, how do i make it eps? just open the logo in inkscape and save as eps?
[11:50] <AlanBell> I think so
[11:51] <AlanBell> then chuck svg and eps over to maggie
[11:51] <popey> ok
[11:51] <popey> well fancy that, I already have inkscape
[11:51] <brobostigon> reckon it is safe,to try and install ubuntu one on debian ?
[11:53] <Myrtti> I'm so tempted to preorder Nintendo 3DS... argh
[11:53] <popey> AlanBell: logo on that page looks broken in inkscape
[11:54]  * popey tries the others
[11:56] <awilkins> Inappropriately molest a dog, the Evolution git repo is large
[11:56] <popey> thats certainly one way to say it
[11:56] <popey> also, AlanBell unity is making this harder than it should be!
[11:57] <popey> haha!
[11:57] <popey> I have beaten unity!
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: you're now using gnome classic again? :)
[11:57] <AlanBell> :)
[11:58] <Myrtti> awwwwwwwwwWWWWWWW
[11:58] <popey> no, i right clicked a file and used open with inkscape, rather than, you know, opening inkscape and trying to use the menu
[11:58] <Myrtti> "The latest addition to the mirror-less Micro Four Thirds family adds compatibility with Olympus’ optional new PENPAL Bluetooth Communication Unit, which allows the photographer to transfer images to a compatible Android smartphone, just one of an ever-expanding range of PEN accessories."
[11:58] <popey> which is UNPOSSIBLE
[11:58] <Myrtti> DAMNIT
[11:58] <gord> you can't use the menu in inkscape?
[11:58] <Myrtti> oh well, c'est la vie
[11:58] <popey> its greyed out gord
[11:58] <gord> oh that sucks
[11:58] <popey> also, see my previous rants on focus follows mouse
[11:59] <popey> also, the implementation of autohide is a very odd thing
[11:59] <popey> a window opens near the left edge of the screen, *bam* you lose your unity bar
[11:59] <popey> you have to pick the window up and move it to get unity bar back
[11:59] <popey> thats not right
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> but it's unity! the design team says it's good!
[12:00] <popey> it should appear when i throw my mouse to the edge of the screen or something
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> so it must be!
[12:00] <popey> oh yes, my bad, sorry
[12:00] <popey> oh goody, inkscape has made an impossible-to-open eps file
[12:01] <gord> popey, move your mouse to the top left
[12:01] <popey> ok thats better
[12:01] <popey> still, the icon i want is at the bottom, i know its at the bottom, i put it there
[12:02] <gord> i think it should open out when you move your mouse to anywhere on the left as well, but not my call
[12:02] <popey> but i have to go to the top to get the bar, then go down
[12:02] <gord> make a bug, make sure mark sees it ;)
[12:02] <AlanBell> "autohide is a lie"
[12:03] <gord> its actually pretty nice that it goes away if you throw a window on the left hand side though, gets it out of the way if you want to use that space but if your not, it can use it
[12:10] <popey> done bug 705375
[12:13]  * gord hits also affects me
[12:15]  * daubers is worred about the kit that's just been sent to an exhibition in dubai
[12:15] <daubers> The smashed telle in the back of the lorry was not a good sign....
[12:16] <popey> chaps
[12:16] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/logo/
[12:16] <DJones> daubers: Maybe it fell of the back of a ....
[12:16] <popey> can you open those?
[12:16] <daubers> popey: Yes
[12:16] <popey> so they look "right"?
[12:18] <daubers> popey: http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/screenypopey.jpg
[12:18]  * popey takes a screenshot of that and puts it in ~/alan/screenydauby.png
[12:18] <popey> or something
[12:19] <gord> looks fine in inkscape but in evince i just get whitespace
[12:19] <popey> ditto
[12:19] <gord> is it a drawing of a snow storm?
[12:19] <czajkowski> peeka boo
[12:19] <popey> its a painting of a polar bear covering his nose with one paw
[12:19] <andylockran> in a whiteout
[12:21] <gord> popey, any specific need for eps? just tried saving as pdf and it looks fine
[12:23] <AlanBell> we have been asked to provide logo in eps format
[12:23]  * popey points at AlanBell
[12:23] <popey> belatedly
[12:26] <popey> AlanBell: sent / yhm
[12:30] <AlanBell> thanks
[12:32] <HazRPG> hurray, apparently android has beaten iphone in the market over in the US by 1%
[12:32] <HazRPG> great news for linux :D
[12:32] <Myrtti> wow, took me whole six minutes to unravel and understand what yhm means
[12:33] <Myrtti> I guess this is a sign that a nap or something is in order
[12:33] <HazRPG> yhm?
[12:33] <Myrtti> "you have mail"
[12:33] <HazRPG> oh xD
[12:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> w00t!
[12:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Finally got my backup script working. Ended up using lftp. Thanks for all the suggestions.
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time to pop to the bank and pay in a cheque I think.
[12:35] <AlanBell> w00t!
[12:38] <HazRPG> holy crap its thursday
[12:38] <HazRPG> I keep thinking its Friday/Saturday for some reason xD
[12:39] <HazRPG> hurray for date fail
[12:40] <HazRPG> brb
[12:40] <HazRPG> bbl rather
[12:55] <DJones> HazRPG: If it was saturday, it'd be the weekend and I'd be busy doing things, rather than sat in work watching an IRC window :)
[12:56] <popey> hah
[12:59] <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: yay for lftp
[13:03] <kazade> hi everyone
[13:03] <kazade> The award for strange news story of the day goes to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jan/20/boy-george-icon-cyprus-church?CMP=twt_fd
[13:04] <screen-x> tried to text "day is having its ups and downs" to my wife, but iphone corrected it to "dating is having its ups and downs" oops!
[13:10] <brobostigon> o2 webtopup total fail, timeed out moretimes than i can remember, and was damn slow.
[13:20] <bigcalm> Just pinched the last Caramac bar from the fridge
[13:20]  * bigcalm does an evil laugh
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they don't want your money then ;)
[13:20] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: feels like it. ys.
[13:20] <screen-x> daubers: does having 7.2k drives next to 15k drives in a chassis cause vibration problems?
[13:21] <jpds> Won't it vibrate anyway?
[13:26] <screen-x> jpds: probably, I just wondered if mismatched neighbours would upset each other..
[13:27] <gord> i have cool loading bays in my case
[13:28] <gord> i love them
[13:28] <bigcalm> Don't you hate it when you type rm when you meant ls?
[13:28] <bigcalm> rm *.txt didn't give me the result I was expecting
[13:28] <jpds> bigcalm: No, more like sl instead of ls.
[13:28] <screen-x> sl \o/
[13:29] <bigcalm> What is sl
[13:29] <bigcalm> ?
[13:29] <Laney> alias rm to rm -I/-i
[13:29] <bigcalm> Laney: good idea
[13:29] <jpds> bigcalm: apt-get install sl -y
[13:29] <bigcalm> !sl
[13:29] <Laney> !info sl
[13:30] <Laney> ¬_¬
[13:30] <AlanBell> it doesn't correct you!
[13:30] <bigcalm> Oh. I don't go in for those type of correctors
[13:30] <AlanBell> it punishes you
[13:30] <bigcalm> I'd rather type the correct command :)
[13:31] <jpds> bigcalm: You have to run it to see the point.
[13:31] <screen-x> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html
[13:32] <bigcalm> screen-x: wow
[13:36] <daubers> screen-x: They will a little, they'll all only run at the speed fo the slowest drive if their in a RAID config
[13:37] <screen-x> daubers: but if they are in separate arrays, they'll be fine?
[13:38] <daubers> screen-x: Yup, depending on your RAID card of course :)
[13:38] <screen-x> yeah
[13:39] <gord> sometimes i wonder if i scan at too high a DPI... oh well *opens 75mb jpg file*
[13:39] <brobostigon> thats weird, under "people nearby" in empathy, it shows me,
[13:39] <screen-x> brobostigon: are you far from yourself?
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you're not near yourself?
[13:40] <gord> brobostigon, it also shows me on facebook jabber and gtalk too
[13:40] <brobostigon> screen-x: ie, it shows me as being onthat same computer,i am not onanyother machine.
[13:40] <gord> it just likes to show you
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> gord: "Near yourself" is the xmpp-over-bonjour thing
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> (ichat)
[13:40] <gord> i know what it is :)
[13:40] <gord> it shows me as available on all of them
[13:41] <brobostigon> its weird, why should it show me, as if itstelling me, iamlogged in onthe machine, i am actually on.
[13:42] <brobostigon> i see no reason why it should do this.
[13:42] <brobostigon> its interesting behaviour.
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> I thought mine was showing the one on my laptop
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> (I'm logged in there as well)
[13:43] <brobostigon> my only other thing connected is my htc dream, and there is no xmpp-bonjour client on there.
[13:44] <andylockran> not upgraded my desktop pre-rc for quite a while.. tempted to do it with natty
[13:45] <andylockran> anyone help with a gdm issue.  I've installed a new screen, but when gdm starts it just shows a blank screen.
[13:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am going to search for bugs, its doesnt seem right behaviour,
[13:47] <X3N> andylockran: that can happen if you're using separate X servers
[13:51] <brobostigon> there it is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637151
[13:58] <awilkins> bigcalm, How about : http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-566018.html
[13:59] <awilkins> And maybe alias rrm to rm so you can have "really remove" as well as "trashcan remove"
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> until you use a "real" unix/linux machine later and expect the trashcan behaviour
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> and don't get it
[14:00] <awilkins> Hmm. True
[14:00] <awilkins> Same goes for aliasing it to -I as well though
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: create a "del" command that is rm -I or something
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> and then use that :)
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> less confusion \o/
[14:03] <X3N> there's also no harm in aliasing rm='rm -i'
[14:06] <awilkins> There is the way I use rm ; I'd be sat there for HOURS
[14:06] <awilkins> Or I'd have to start using `yes` a lot
[14:08] <X3N>  /usr/bin/rm
[14:08] <X3N> or where ever it lives
[14:09] <X3N>  /bin/rm
[14:12] <dutchie> or \rm
[14:13] <andylockran> mr
[14:13] <Laney> i have NO_rm_star_silent in my zshrc
[14:17] <bigcalm> Alias all bash commands to rm
[14:21] <andylockran> alias tail and cat to rm.. really helps with the old audit trail :p
[14:30] <andylockran> hey guys
[14:30] <andylockran> is CPAN the preferred method for perl modules on ubuntu?
[14:31] <dutchie> i use cpan if they aren't packaged
[14:31] <AlanBell> I did once get into a right pickle mixing packaged perl and cpan perl
[14:32] <AlanBell> so now I avoid perl
[14:32] <bigcalm> Hehe
[14:32] <bigcalm> Use webmin for installing perl modules
[14:33] <bigcalm> Auto dependances ftw
[14:33] <andylockran> all our dev is done in perl
[14:33] <andylockran> yet most my sysadmin scripts are python
[14:33] <andylockran> so learning perl, for easy of integration with everything else.
[14:34] <dutchie> andylockran: that sounds completely the wrong way round ;)
[14:36] <popey> hmm, seems I can reliably and consistently crash unity today
[14:40] <gord> popey, really? doing what?
[14:41] <popey> lemme just save my work and do it again
[14:41] <popey> it segfaults
[14:45] <gord> if you run unity --advanced-debug in a VT it'll start you in gdb so you can get a backtrace (normally involves just typing run, going back into your display, crashing it then back in the vt type "set log on" and "bt". then "quit" to get out of gdb
[14:46] <popey> ok, doing that
[14:46] <popey> ta
[14:47] <bigcalm> This z-index is going to be the death of me
[14:48] <danfish> \o/ label printers installed at work. No more handwriting request forms :)
[14:49] <danfish> ...it's the little things that make me ha-ha-ha-happy
[14:52] <X3N> popey: that bug I filed bug #700724 is hotting up very exciting
[14:56] <popey> yeah
[14:56] <popey> its been discussed on the loco teams list too
[15:38]  * brobostigon shakes fist @ adsl
[15:44]  * Laney lives in the street over from the exchange
[15:44] <Laney> good times
[15:56] <directhex> anyone here have a fax machine?
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> directhex: does it count if I can use my VOIP-account as a fax machine?
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> directhex: (T.38)
[15:57] <directhex> MartijnVdS, if you can really actually fax, then yes
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> I could, if I bothered to set it all up
[15:58] <screen-x> directhex: what for?
[16:04] <directhex> screen-x, trying to get our new fax machine working!
[16:04] <bigcalm> People still fax?
[16:04] <directhex> screen-x, need to test fax receive (i know sending is buggered)
[16:05] <Laney> usually one of the parties involved in a fax transaction
[16:05] <Laney> the other one has to spend 6 hours configuring it
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.tpc.int/faxbyemail.html
[16:05] <screen-x> directhex: you could test with one of those things where you phone up and they send you a fax back
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> directhex: free faxing :)
[16:06] <screen-x> I remember getting psion data sheets like that :)
[16:08] <danfish> directhex: I have a fax machine right here
[16:09] <directhex> danfish, can you hit the fax number on http://www.collabora.co.uk/contact/ with a test document?
[16:09] <directhex> MartijnVdS, trying it
[16:10] <danfish> directhex: done it now - it's in a bit of a queue tho'
[16:15] <bigcalm> Anybody hot with css able to help with a z-index issue? :) http://twitpic.com/3rr6g2
[16:16] <awilkins> Urr. Fax
[16:16] <awilkins> I had a printer/scanner with a phone jack and a fax feature once
[16:20] <kazade> hmm, anyone know of an updated Lucid PPA for monodevelop?
[16:25] <danfish> directhex: no joy - it didn't like your fax machine at all - "comms.error" :(
[16:32] <awilkins> I would have thought that the voice codecs used by VoIP phones would royally screw with fax codeces
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: they tend to
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: that's why They invented T38
[16:33] <awilkins> Is it a digital -> analogue codec and you feed it the digital end? or does it do fax > digital > t38 internally?
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: depends on the fax, I guess
[16:37] <andylockran> hwody
[16:38]  * hamitron grumbles
[16:39] <hamitron> 2 hours 40 mins to copy files
[16:39] <hamitron> :/
[16:39] <gord> time to get gigabit ethernet!
[16:40] <daubers> and a raid
[16:40] <hamitron> well
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> and a pony
[16:40] <hamitron> I may of been better not plugging this hdd in on my main comp
[16:41] <hamitron> then I wouldnt be sat waiting :)
[16:41] <hamitron> flying , doesnt work :|
[16:44] <awilkins> Time to grab a BEER
[16:49] <hamitron> gonna drop the RAID 0 sata1 card in favour of sataII I think
[16:49] <hamitron> unless I change my mind
[16:49] <hamitron> ;)
[16:52] <popey> bigcalm: http://i27.tinypic.com/2j1khf9.png
[16:53] <bigcalm> popey: PRINTING!
[16:53] <bigcalm> popey: thank you for that, just made my day :)
[16:54] <bigcalm> popey: THIS is the best justification yet for buying a colour laser printer
[16:54] <popey> :)
[16:54] <popey> http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac250/Chhalo/Pigheadandlegs.png
[16:55] <popey> http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac250/Chhalo/pigbody2.png
[16:55] <popey> I want to see pics!
[16:55] <popey> of pigs
[16:55] <popey> http://i29.tinypic.com/s5xlw5.jpg
[16:56] <bigcalm> Maybe I should invest in some heavy paper
[16:56] <hamitron> pigs? :/
[16:56] <bigcalm> This is less than 80mg I think
[16:56] <awilkins> g/m^2
[16:57] <bigcalm> Everybody knew what I meant :P
[16:57] <Myrtti> you people need healthier hobbies
[16:57] <bigcalm> :O
[16:57] <bigcalm> Myrtti: this is 'arts & crafts'
[16:59] <awilkins> Healthier than WH40k models - fewer solvents to inhale
[17:00] <Myrtti> true
[17:00]  * kazade just realized he has a colour printer...
[17:01] <hamitron> I have only just upgraded from inkjet to a black and white lasor :/
[17:01] <dwatkins> layz0r?
[17:01] <hamitron> laser
[17:01] <hamitron> lazer
[17:01] <dwatkins> Sorry, I don't know what happened there, I just felt compelled to write the word 'LASER' totally incorrectly.
[17:02] <dwatkins> It's an abbreviation, in fact.
[17:02] <hamitron> yeh, I am lazy and not thinking ;/
[17:03] <dwatkins> I wasn't making a comment on the way you'd written it, more the way I wrote it in 'l33t-sp33k'
[17:03]  * dwatkins apologises for his outburst
[17:03]  * awilkins has a Samsung CLX2160N
[17:03] <hamitron> mine is samsung
[17:04] <alex> Hello?
[17:04] <hamitron> not used it enough to judge if it is a good buy
[17:04] <awilkins> Colour lasers are actually pretty cheap now. Mine was £300 on account of having a network card and being a scanner as well, but they are around the £100 mark now
[17:04] <hamitron> hi alex
[17:04] <DJones> Hello alex
[17:04] <alex> Wehay, it works.
[17:04] <popey> alex: it does
[17:04] <hamitron> my B&W one was £55
[17:04] <hamitron> :)
[17:04] <awilkins> For infrequent printers, I think they are much better value than inkjets because toner doesn't dry out
[17:04] <alex> I'm not new to the IRC thing, but certainly new to the IRC on Ubuntu thing.
[17:05] <awilkins> Which client are you using?
[17:06] <otaku_coder> hi. I'm getting the following when doing an apt-get upgrade on a 10.10 linode server I manage - http://pastebin.com/YV1GgJ9H any ideas what's causing the issues?
[17:06] <alex> The GNOME X-Chat.
[17:06] <hamitron> install less?
[17:07] <alex> I was going to use plain old X-chat, but on the 'more info' pane on the Software Centre, X-Chat said it'd download "enhanced sound daemons."
[17:07] <alex> And I thought, bollocks to that, I want something that doesn't download "enhanced sound daemons."
[17:07] <alex> And the GNOME X-chat was right below it.
[17:08] <awilkins> otaku_coder, Looks like your server doesn't have less installed. Which is odd. Or that it's filesystem is damaged. Which would be bad.
[17:08] <hamitron> my install didnt have less installed either
[17:08] <alex> Wait a sec, you're not talking to me.
[17:08] <hamitron> :/
[17:08] <alex> That was smooth.
[17:08] <hamitron> oh sorry alex
[17:08] <hamitron> haha
[17:09] <alex> No troubles, bubbles.
[17:09] <hamitron> didnt think of double meaning
[17:09] <hamitron> :)
[17:09] <alex> I'm actually here because I'm a relative Linux/Ubuntu newb, and would appreciate a small kick in the right direction on an install problem.
[17:09] <alex> But I'll wait until the printer issue has been somewhat resolved.
[17:09] <alex> And Otaku's apt-get upgrade prob.
[17:10] <hamitron> I think the printer talk was just random ramblings
[17:10] <alex> Right-o.
[17:10] <otaku_coder> awilkins: looks like less is installed, and the filesystem looks fine
[17:10] <awilkins> Prompted by cut out and stick colour pig templates
[17:10] <hamitron> :))
[17:10] <awilkins> otaku_coder, Hmm ; on my fs, less installs to /usr/bin/less
[17:11] <otaku_coder> awilkins: whereis less also reveals the same
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> which less :)
[17:11] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: more or less?
[17:12] <alex> I'm trying to get Rosegarden onto Maverick Meerkat, but my issue is that when I try to get it through the Ubuntu Software Centre, it says that the install "Requires installation of untrusted packages."
[17:12] <otaku_coder> which less shows its in /usr/bin/less
[17:12] <alex> Details: "rosegarden rosegarden-data."
[17:12]  * hamitron would softlink /bin/less
[17:12] <awilkins> otaku_coder, My /usr/bin/less is a softlink to /bin/less though
[17:12] <screen-x> !info rosegarden
[17:13] <popey> alex: what happens if you open a terminal and type "sudo apt-get install rosegarden"?
[17:13] <popey> can you paste the output completely at http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ?
[17:13] <otaku_coder> awilkins: same
[17:13] <alex> I shall tell you in twenty seconds, bear with me.
[17:13] <popey> tick tock
[17:13] <hamitron> 1, 2, 3...
[17:13] <hamitron> ;/
[17:13] <otaku_coder> awilkins: looks like a borked package upgrade
[17:14] <alex> "Do you want to install these packages without verification?" Y.
[17:14] <awilkins> otaku_coder, Do you have the /etc/alternatives folder?
[17:14] <alex> It's working away.
[17:14] <alex> Brilliant. Thanks folks. Guess I'm just not command-literate enough yet.
[17:14] <popey> oh is it installing?
[17:14] <screen-x> alex: sounds like your missing a key for a repo
[17:14] <popey> yeah
[17:14] <otaku_coder> awilkins: ah, no i dont
[17:14] <alex> Screen-X, I'm a layman. I think I understand the gist of that sentence, but probably not.
[17:15] <popey> !software
[17:15] <awilkins> otaku_coder, How odd, mine is chock-full of things
[17:15] <alex> Sorry dude.
[17:15] <alex> Could you just expand?
[17:15] <popey> alex: that page will explain it
[17:15] <otaku_coder> awilkins: this was a clean ubuntu 10.10 image, only 3 days old
[17:15] <alex> Bitchin'.
[17:15] <popey> alex: some light bed time reading :)
[17:15] <awilkins> otaku_coder, I suggest you sudo mkdir /etc/alternatives and try again
[17:15] <screen-x> alex: keys are used to verify packages. They aren't needed to install software, but without them you can't verify that the package hasn't been altered.
[17:15] <alex> I'll print it out and stick it to the ceiling.
[17:15] <popey> alex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Howto  if you want to know apt-get
[17:16] <popey> alex: and we hang out here anyway if you get any more issues
[17:16] <alex> I can say, "I thought as much," but that doesn't mean squat of course.
[17:16] <otaku_coder> awilkins: well that fixed it, thanks. wonder why there was no alternatives folder
[17:16] <alex> I can't thank you guys enough. Cheers.
[17:17] <screen-x> Why is  the ntp daemon not authoritative for the first few minutes after starting?
[17:17] <awilkins> otaku_coder, I have no idea why it might occur ... filesystem damage or maybe a mad administrator
[17:17] <hamitron> definately mad ;)
[17:17] <otaku_coder> awilkins: I'm the only sysadmin!! Ah well, it's fixed anyway. I'll just ignore this little issue ;)
[17:18] <hamitron> wasnt this issue on linode?
[17:18] <hamitron> not a plain install
[17:19] <hamitron> 2 hours left
[17:19] <hamitron> :)
[17:25] <jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJV56WUDng
[17:29] <popey> jacobw: oooooooooooooooooooooooooooold news :)
[17:29] <jacobw> i must be behind the group on banana related news
[17:30] <Myrtti> banana?
[17:30] <Myrtti> BANANA
[17:30] <screen-x> phone?
[17:31] <alex> Your nana phoned.
[17:46] <popey> alex: you will fit in here just right
[17:47] <hamitron> brb, tea and cakes
[17:48] <brobostigon> yummy.
[17:48]  * brobostigon is having sausage and mushroom butties.
[17:50] <hamitron> that sounds better
[17:51] <hamitron> I am just trying to ¨keep going" for another few hours
[17:52]  * popey has constructed spag bol
[17:52] <brobostigon> a good bolognese, takes hours.
[17:53] <danfish> ...which undergo deconstruction much quicker
[17:53] <bigcalm> popey: just finished cutting out and scorring the guy. That's taken way too long
[17:53] <popey> haha
[17:53] <popey> it's not a race
[17:53] <popey> brobostigon: it does?
[17:54] <bigcalm> Need to find some glue next
[17:54] <hamitron> my mince meat is still cooking :/
[17:54] <popey> bigcalm: could stick it to cardboard
[17:54] <brobostigon> popey: because the sauce needs to mature.
[17:55] <bigcalm> popey: want to make the guy ride the piggy. Sadly not possible
[17:55] <gord> wish i could play minecraft :(
[17:55] <hamitron> how much it cost?
[17:55] <bigcalm> It's on the site
[17:55] <bigcalm> minecraft.net
[17:55] <popey> which is down
[17:56] <bigcalm> Boo
[17:56] <popey> or slow
[17:56] <hamitron> so how much it cost?
[17:56] <hamitron> ;)
[17:56] <bigcalm> It was about 10 euros when we started
[17:56] <bigcalm> It's more now
[17:56] <popey> ooo, it responded
[17:56] <hamitron> how how long?
[17:56] <hamitron> for how long?
[17:56] <hamitron> :|
[17:56] <bigcalm> popey: notch is moving skins to s3
[17:56] <gord> its been basically down for days
[17:56] <popey> its up now
[17:56] <bigcalm> hamitron: forever, it's not a subscription game
[17:56] <gord> not for me
[17:56] <awilkins> popey, A good meat ragu does take hours ... I give the vegetables an half hour on their own, gently sweating down in a glug of olive oil
[17:56] <hamitron> ah :)
[17:59] <danfish> that Heston Bloomewhatsit cooks his bolognese for 12 hours
[17:59] <brobostigon> ishould try alittle chocolate when i next  make a curry, apparently its quite good.
[17:59] <brobostigon> danfish: that is alittle eccessive,
[18:00] <bigcalm> http://minecraft.net/prepurchase.jsp
[18:00] <hamitron> fs, no vista/7 drivers for my RAID card
[18:00] <gord> i only got to play with strange coloured sheep and made a doorbell for my home before the servers went kablewy :(
[18:00] <bigcalm> Alpha was 50% off. Beta is 25% off. Release will be 0% off
[18:00] <popey> when it's finished it will be 20 EUR
[18:00] <popey> now it's 14.95 EUR
[18:00]  * awilkins points and squeals in the "body snatchers" style .... (Windows.... uncleeaaaan!!!)
[18:00]  * hamitron will wait
[18:00] <bigcalm> hamitron: I why?
[18:00] <hamitron> I have self control
[18:00] <hamitron> ;/
[18:00] <bigcalm> What's that?
[18:00] <awilkins> I logged into my Island retreat and found the sea was full of giant squid
[18:00] <popey> :)
[18:00]  * popey starts his server up
[18:00] <awilkins> My island home has a tunnel to the mainland so that I can go plundering without getting wet
[18:00] <bigcalm> Do we have a stable #u-u server?
[18:00] <popey> mine is stable :)
[18:00] <popey> popeydc.dyndns.org :)
[18:00] <gord> mines been stable for months :P
[18:00] <bigcalm> popey: but not on 24/7
[18:00] <hamitron> #u-u?
[18:00] <popey> it can be
[18:00] <awilkins> ubuntu-uk
[18:00] <bigcalm> hamitron: shorthand for here
[18:00] <gord> gordallott.com - online 24 7!
[18:00] <popey> i found your connection stuttered :(
[18:00] <maco> id just call that -uk
[18:00] <Myrtti> likewise
[18:01] <gord> it did, back in the day, there was a bug that made everything laggy
[18:01] <danfish> brobostigon: probably, but he does do things to excess!
[18:01] <hamitron> is it a persistent game then?
[18:01] <hamitron> persistent world game I mean
[18:02] <brobostigon> danfish: very true,
[18:02] <hamitron> 1 hour 15 mins
[18:02] <hamitron> :)
[18:10] <MonsterKiller> whats the best way to blacklist an IP on ubuntu serveR?
[18:10] <MonsterKiller> server*
[18:13] <danfish> MonsterKiller: add it to /etc/hosts.deny
[18:13] <MonsterKiller> okay :) Thanks
[18:18]  * awilkins swears loudly
[18:18] <hamitron> :/
[18:18] <awilkins> I just broke my cafetiere
[18:18] <hamitron> oh noes :(
[18:18] <hamitron> instant coffee for you
[18:18] <hamitron> ;)
[18:19] <awilkins> Dr Pepper. Until I have another means of preparing proper coffee. Maybe I'll try the finnish trick with an egg
[18:20] <hamitron> hey, I drink instant :/
[18:20] <hamitron> around 15 mugs per day, and I am still alive
[18:20] <awilkins> http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/
[18:23] <hamitron> hassle!
[18:24] <hamitron> 55 mins left
[18:24] <hamitron> :)
[18:25] <BigRedS> I think this registration form for the open sauce expo is probably enough to put any non-geek off the idea of going
[18:25] <hamitron> sauce?
[18:26] <BigRedS> Ah, I've been teasing pedants all day
[18:26] <BigRedS> source
[18:27] <gord> do you have to telnet to a bbs to register?
[18:27] <gord> i would so do that
[18:27] <hamitron> brb
[18:28] <BigRedS> haha
[18:29] <BigRedS> nah, it's not pleasantly geeky
[18:29] <BigRedS> but there's a several-metre long survey of which bits of computing you're into
[18:50] <popey> bigcalm: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/ can you see that map?
[18:53] <bigcalm> Checking
[18:53] <bigcalm> Slow to log in to minecraft at all
[18:53] <popey> thats just an http map
[18:53] <popey> a png of the map on my server
[18:53] <bigcalm> Oh, sorry :)
[18:53] <bigcalm> Yes
[18:53] <popey> ta
[18:54] <bigcalm> Oo, an update
[18:55] <bigcalm> Is your server running?
[18:56] <popey> yes
[18:57] <bigcalm> Does it require me to add a port number?
[18:57] <bigcalm> Connection is timing out
[18:58] <kvarley> popey: You have a minecraft server? =)
[18:58] <popey> ya
[18:58] <popey> on a laptop at home
[18:59] <popey> :)
[18:59] <kvarley> popey =) is it public?
[18:59]  * brobostigon falls out of his chair, laughing at a cartoon in private eye
[19:01] <popey> kvarley: course
[19:02] <popey> just getting automatic map png generation sorted
[19:02] <kvarley> popey: IP?
[19:02] <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/2011/01/20/
[19:02] <popey> muhahaha
[19:02] <popey> that hostname kvarley
[19:03] <kvarley> popey Thank you
[19:03] <popey> so, every 10 mins it generates a map
[19:03] <popey> and does a symlink to the "current" map image
[19:03] <popey> win
[19:04] <ali1234> is that map 1 pixel per "cube"?
[19:04] <popey> i think so
[19:05] <ali1234> it would be the fastest way to generate it i guess
[19:05] <popey> yeah
[19:05] <popey> it has some options, not looked at yet
[19:12] <kvarley> popey: I can't login to minecraft :/
[19:12] <kvarley> popey: Not your server, I mean minecrafts login doesn't connect
[19:20] <davmor2> lo all
[19:21] <davmor2> czajkowski, how you feeling now kidda
[19:21] <awilkins> minecraft.net doesn't seem to be responding
[19:22] <popey> kvarley: yeah, issues
[19:22] <popey> their end
[19:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: good bit better thanks
[19:23] <davmor2> cztab good good
[19:25] <davmor2> oh well train is here so I'm off home
[19:32] <andylockran> ta ra
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://i.imgur.com/YPc02.jpg
[19:48]  * brobostigon falls out of his chair in laughter,
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no permanent damage I hope? :)
[19:53] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: definatly not, :)
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> Perhabsolutely!
[20:00] <brobostigon> :)
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> what about "Funishment"
[20:06] <brobostigon> mm.
[20:06] <brobostigon> hmm.
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm reading a thread on "accidental words" people make :)
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> Trafficated. As in:
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> "Hey what took you so long getting here?"
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> "The roads were all trafficated man.."
 That shitty weather between rain and snow.
[20:16] <asmith> Guten Tag.
[20:16] <asmith> Or at least, Hello.
[20:17] <brobostigon> moin asmith :)
[20:17] <brobostigon> guten abend asmith *
[20:17] <asmith> Quick question. Why do Ardour and Rosegarden refuse to be installed on the same system?
[20:17] <asmith> It seems that Rosegarden doesn't like JACK but  Ardour does.
[20:18] <asmith> Chriscoulson doesn't like my question, obviously.
[20:18] <popey> ardour needs jack
[20:18] <popey> didn't know rosegarden doesn't like jack
[20:18] <asmith> Ah, hey Popey.
[20:18] <popey> lo
[20:18] <asmith> It's "Alex" from earlier.
[20:19] <asmith> Wouldn't let me log in this time.
[20:19] <asmith> As "Alex," that is.
[20:19] <popey> well, i just did "sudo apt-get install ardour rosegarden" and it's trying to install both now
[20:19] <asmith> I've got Ardour on the system, but it doesn't run because there's not enough JACK capabilities, I think.
[20:19] <asmith> That's the impression I seem to get.
[20:19] <popey> is jack running?
[20:20] <popey> there is a program called jack-ctl or somesuch which controls jack
[20:20] <popey> and lets you stop/start it
[20:21] <asmith> I've typed Jack-Ctl into the software centre - it comes up with Jack Tools.
[20:21] <asmith> Which I seem to already have.
[20:22] <popey> yes, it will be under the menu somewhere
[20:23] <asmith> When I try to start Ardour, it asks for various variables - sample rates and buffer amounts etc. - then upon actually starting the audio engine, it claims that "Ardour couldn't start JACK."
[20:23] <asmith> Rosegarden, however, works top.
[20:24] <asmith> OK, I've opened Jack Control.
[20:24] <asmith> It says it can't connect to the JACK server as client.
[20:25] <asmith> Man, the more I type the more I feel like a doofus.
[20:25] <asmith> The JACK server is on my computer.
[20:25] <popey> yes
[20:25] <popey> it needs to be started
[20:25] <popey> there's a start button there somewhere
[20:26] <asmith> On the Jack Audio Connection Kit, yes, there's a start. But upon pressing it, that's where the JACK server connection error message occurs.
[20:26] <asmith> I've got Jackd1, which describes itself as the "JACK Audio Connection Kit (Server and example clients)"
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe jack can't start because of pulse?
[20:27] <asmith> I've tried downloading jackd2, but of course it wants to kill Rosegarden.
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToJACKConfiguration
[20:27] <popey> they play nice these days MartijnVdS
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> popey: oh, didn't know that
[20:31] <asmith> Interesting - this article on Wikipedia on Ubuntu Studio claims that Rosegarden works with JACK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Studio
[20:31] <asmith> And yet...
[20:32] <popey> it does
[20:32] <popey> you just don't have jack running yet
[20:35] <asmith> Oh, Lord.
[20:35]  * czajkowski hugs popey
[20:35] <asmith> Jack's message window tells me I don't have a "sane system."
[20:35] <popey> czajkowski: sometimes more words is better
[20:36] <czajkowski> popey: aye but I'm also fielding them on irc as well :)
[20:36] <popey> feel free to blog about it and use my mail
[20:36] <popey> or maybe, maybe not
[20:36] <czajkowski> no...
[20:37] <czajkowski> as I know it's more than one area that is the issue, we're just one vocal area
[20:38] <asmith> OK folks, I appreciate your patience and help. Here's what Jack Control says in the messages pane:
[20:38] <asmith> Please check your /etc/security/limits.conf for the following lines
[20:38] <asmith> and correct/add them:
[20:38] <asmith>   @audio          -       rtprio          100
[20:38] <asmith>   @audio          -       nice            -10
[20:38] <asmith> After applying these changes, please re-login in order for them to take effect.
[20:38] <asmith> You don't appear to have a sane system configuration. It is very likely that you
[20:38] <asmith> encounter xruns. Please apply all the above mentioned changes and start jack again!
[20:38] <asmith> Hence, I've done so using Nautilus with Root priviledges, now I'm going to log out and log back in.
[20:38] <popey> i probably wouldn't do that
[20:38] <asmith> Ciao for now, see you in a little.
[20:38] <popey> but worth a shot :)
[20:39] <asmith> OK. Here goes nothing!
[20:40] <asmith> OK, let's try again.
[20:40] <asmith> Aha. Now the messages read:
[20:40] <asmith> "JACK is running in realtime mode, but you are not allowed to use realtime scheduling.
[20:40] <asmith> Your system has an audio group, but you are not a member of it.
[20:40] <asmith> Please add yourself to the audio group by executing (as root):
[20:40] <asmith>   usermod -a -G audio (null)
[20:41] <asmith> After applying these changes, please re-login in order for them to take effect."
[20:41] <asmith> Man, I have a degree in Film & Television Production, a lifetime of music behind me, and I can't figure out how to program a damn computer. Ouch.
[20:42] <asmith> Is it recommended that I don't do "usermod -a -G audio (null)", or that I go ahead and sudo that.
[20:43] <asmith> I have killed the IRC channel, I see.
[20:45] <popey> :)
[20:45] <popey> sorry, I'm working :(
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> working? at this hour?
[20:46] <popey> ya
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> madpopey
[20:46] <popey> oracle RAC 11g upgrade
[20:46] <popey> "fun"
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: 21:05 < MartijnVdS> what about "Funishment"
[20:54]  * bigcalm collapses
[20:55]  * MartijnVdS props bigcalm up on sticks
[20:55] <bigcalm> Being ill doth suck
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> pointy ones
[21:20] <bigcalm> http://i.imgur.com/9bxJ6.jpg # wow
[21:25] <popey> hah
[21:31] <daubers> Evening
[21:34] <daubers> !ping
[21:35] <popey> bigcalm: seen elsewhere - "offer him 50p for his house on the 22nd" :)
[21:35] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:35]  * brobostigon has chocolate buttons, :)
[21:35] <popey> ooo, so do i!
[21:36] <brobostigon> :)
[21:36] <brobostigon> luxury dark, dairy free, :)
[21:36] <czajkowski> ohh
[21:37]  * czajkowski hugs bigcalm
[21:37] <Pendulum> I found my first Cadbury Creme Egg of the year!
[21:37]  * bigcalm hugs some new life into czajkowski
[21:37] <czajkowski> Pendulum: see I see the and all I can do is laugh
[21:38] <AlanBell> Pendulum: please tell me it has nothing to do with Daviey
[21:38] <Pendulum> AlanBell: nothing at all
[21:38] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dave.jpg
[21:38]  * Pendulum dies laughing
[21:38] <Daviey> !!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:38] <Pendulum> err.. the laughing was at AlanBell
[21:39]  * Pendulum hugs Daviey
[21:39] <Daviey> careful!
[21:39] <Daviey> :)
[21:39] <Pendulum> Your in the UK and I'm in the US. I think my creme egg is safe
[21:39] <Pendulum> *you're
[21:39] <Myrtti> http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html
[21:39] <Daviey> Pendulum... I was in the US last week... and will return soon :P
[21:40] <Pendulum> Daviey: but you didn't visit me :(
[21:40] <Myrtti> "wanna learn Finnish? good luck"
[21:40] <Daviey> Pendulum, What part of the UsS are you?
[21:40] <Pendulum> Daviey: Connecticut
[21:40] <Pendulum> 1/2 way between New York City and Boston
[21:41] <Daviey> eeeeek
[21:41] <Pendulum> what?
[21:41] <Daviey> I might have reason to go near boston soon.
[21:41] <Pendulum> haha
[21:43] <Pendulum> interesting, Weight Watchers doesn't seem to think a Cadbury Creme egg is nearly as bad for you as I expected
[21:43] <AlanBell> I am sure it is if you eat it
[21:43] <Pendulum> (I do find it amusing that it's actually in their food database)
[21:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I expected it to be about twice the "points plus value" that it is
[21:44] <Pendulum> and that's based on actually eating!
[21:44] <Pendulum> gonna have to work harder to break the diet ;)
[21:45]  * Darael resolves to stay away from Creme Eggs.  Not nearly fattening enough.
[21:46] <Pendulum> hmm... I could go out and order whatever I want tonight and not break my diet. I think I maybe haven't been eating enough :-/
[21:47] <maco> Pendulum: not eating enough is bad, makes you fall over
[21:47] <Pendulum> maco: I've had a sinus infection and today is the first day my throat hasn't hurt
[21:47] <maco> ugh
[21:47] <Pendulum> haven't fallen over yet!
[21:48] <maco> im one of those fainting people
[21:49]  * bigcalm reprints the sheet with the pigs head on it due to over scoring and tearing
[21:49] <czajkowski> Pendulum: you'd swear the two of us had come back from uds, with us both being this sick this week with sinus and chest
[21:50] <Pendulum> maco: I've been eating enough, just not much more than that. lots of jello and such
[21:50] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I know :(
[22:18] <brobostigon> nos da,sleep well.
[22:29] <czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there -------->
[22:30] <HazRPG> ah man, seems brobostigon always seems to be offline just as I hit the onlines
[22:30] <HazRPG> czajkowski: what do ya mean, popey is in the other there ----------->>
[22:32]  * HazRPG needs to find himself a proper sleeping pattern soon :/
[22:49] <hamitron> :)
[22:53] <HazRPG> hamitron: woot!
[22:54] <hamitron> I have sadly (yet greatfully) booted back into windows xp
[22:54] <hamitron> :/
[22:54] <HazRPG> ouch
[22:54] <hamitron> I hate deciding how to setup a comp you use each day
[22:54] <HazRPG> saying that I'm booted into Windows 7 with a virtualbox ubuntu 10.10 in seamless-mode
[22:55] <hamitron> nice
[22:55] <HazRPG> how'd ya mean?
[22:55] <hamitron> I got 2 x 300Gb hdd in RAID 0, and a single 500Gb
[22:55] <HazRPG> nice
[22:55] <hamitron> can't installed win7 on the RAID
[22:55] <hamitron> no drivers
[22:56] <HazRPG> (keeps meaning to setup a RAID)
[22:56] <HazRPG> no drivers for what?
[22:56] <hamitron> vista or win7
[22:56] <hamitron> atm I am running win xp on it
[22:56] <HazRPG> because so far I've managed to install Windows 7 onto anything without having to worry about any driver fails
[22:56] <hamitron> a quick google shows problems for my card
[22:56] <hamitron> :/
[22:56] <HazRPG> ah, RAID card you mean?
[22:57] <hamitron> yeh
[22:57] <HazRPG> ouch
[22:57] <HazRPG> mines just built into the mobo
[22:57] <hamitron> I only got 2gb ram, so maybe not worth attempting win7
[22:58] <directhex> win7 is likely to be less resource-hungry than vista
[22:58] <hamitron> now, if I am lazy, I leave XP on it, and just use the single drive for data
[22:58] <directhex> wifey runs it, don't remember if she has 2 or 4 though
[22:58] <hamitron> directhex: win7 runs fine on 2gb ram
[22:58] <hamitron> imo
[22:58] <hamitron> but not with me
[22:58] <hamitron> I like torturing my system
[22:59] <hamitron> last time I broke the start menu :D
[22:59] <HazRPG> heh, yeah I have Win7 working fine on my laptop - and I'm pretty sure that only has 1GB of RAM
[22:59] <HazRPG> or possibly 1.5 or maybe 2
[22:59] <HazRPG> but it won't be more than 2 cos its like 3-4 years old now
[23:00] <hamitron> my mobo will only take 2gb :/
[23:00] <HazRPG> in fact I find win7 works better than XP does
[23:00] <hamitron> well, I am using XP fine atm
[23:00] <hamitron> but I did just boot a live cd of linux
[23:00] <hamitron> and realised how crap xp is
[23:00] <hamitron> haha
[23:01] <hamitron> it was centos though, which seems to feel more snappy than ubuntu
[23:01] <ali1234> everything is more snappy than ubuntu
[23:01] <hamitron> (as does fedora)
[23:02] <ali1234> unfortunately everything else is also more buggy than ubuntu
[23:02] <HazRPG> heh, I find that WinXP works fine if you have SP1 or SP2... the minute you install any patches after SP2 or the full SP3 pack... it starts to get really sluggish :/.
[23:02] <hamitron> yeh
[23:02] <hamitron> and yeh
[23:02] <hamitron> :)
[23:02] <hamitron> my heart wants to install a linux distro...
[23:02] <HazRPG> agreed ali1234
[23:02] <hamitron> but my brain tells me it won't work for this system
[23:03] <hamitron> dual booting always annoys me
[23:03] <HazRPG> LiveCD works doesn't it though?
[23:03] <hamitron> but I never reboot
[23:03] <hamitron> :)
[23:03] <HazRPG> anything in particular keeping you on Windows?
[23:03] <hamitron> games
[23:03] <HazRPG> ah, same issue I have them ^^,
[23:03] <hamitron> yeh, that is why i could relate to your pain
[23:03] <hamitron> :)
[23:04] <HazRPG> ^^
[23:05] <HazRPG> see I've managed to free myself of most windows-only licence based software with (FL)OSS type software... but Games are the only thing that's lacking sadly :(
[23:05] <hamitron> yes
[23:05] <hamitron> you can play some games fine
[23:05] <hamitron> plus there is wine
[23:06] <hamitron> but if you want just a few games that don't work, it can be upsetting
[23:06] <hamitron> I just spent £130 for 1 game
[23:06] <HazRPG> see most of my games are on Steam...
[23:06] <hamitron> not intending to stop using it
[23:07] <ali1234> steam works well on linux
[23:07] <ali1234> the games are hit and miss though
[23:07] <hamitron> I'm even considering spending another £260 to get that single game running better :/
[23:07] <HazRPG> just cos I like the idea of getting any game without having to leave the house (sometimes at a fraction of the price, mainly get them when the seasonal offers go on :P - full borderlands for like £9.99 - bargain)
[23:08] <hamitron> I really hate buying games that require online access for no reason
[23:09] <HazRPG> hmm, borderlands doesn't require you to stay online
[23:09] <ali1234> i really hate buying games that are exactly the same as all other games but with slightly different graphics eg any FPS game made in the past 10 years
[23:09] <HazRPG> set steam to offline-mode, and away you go
[23:09] <hamitron> yes HazRPG, but then if you need to re-install...
[23:09] <HazRPG> ah, true
[23:09] <hamitron> or if steam decide to drop support for your OS
[23:09] <HazRPG> my trick is just backup the game folder and settings to CD/DVD
[23:10] <HazRPG> hamitron: doubt that, I tend to roll onto the next stable O/S when possible (i.e. didn't do vista AT all!)
[23:11] <hamitron> but if you chose not to, you would get caught out
[23:11] <hamitron> :)
[23:11] <hamitron> I bought Half Life 2, and steam cut me off from using it
[23:11] <HazRPG> then you don't buy games that require the next O/S xD
[23:11] <HazRPG> :o?
[23:11] <hamitron> it used to run on win98
[23:11] <hamitron> ;)
[23:11] <hamitron> now it won't
[23:12] <HazRPG> are you sure you meant HL2 ??
[23:12] <hamitron> yes
[23:12] <HazRPG> Thought that game needed XP minimum...
[23:12] <HazRPG> or DX9 minimum rather...
[23:12] <hamitron> I got the retail box on first release
[23:13] <hamitron> install from dvd... needs steam... needs update... fails
[23:14] <hamitron> it is legal ofc
[23:14] <HazRPG> yeah, cos looking here... it says "WinXP or later, 1.7GHz Intel or AMD Processor (3GHz recom.), 512MB of RAM (1GB recom.), DirectX 8.1 (Dx9 recom.)"
[23:14] <HazRPG> that's for minimum and recommended stuff
[23:15] <hamitron> my retail box still says win 98 ;)
[23:15] <hamitron> they will drop support for xp eventually
[23:15] <HazRPG> heh, I hate to say it - but get one of the no-cd cracks... usually helps
[23:16] <HazRPG> Microsoft has already dropped support for XP if I recall...
[23:16] <hamitron> I have researched extracting the game files from steam
[23:16] <HazRPG> so won't take long for developers to do the same
[23:16] <hamitron> MS still support XP ;/
[23:16] <hamitron> it moves into extended support later this year
[23:17] <hamitron> iirc, 2014
[23:17] <hamitron> but I am looking at moving systems off XP soon
[23:18] <HazRPG> hmm, WinXP Tablet loses support @ 12/07/2011
[23:18] <hamitron> ubuntu+1 x 4
[23:19] <HazRPG> I doubt they the main one for as long as 2014
[23:19] <HazRPG> hamitron: was it you that got a giffgaff too btw?
[23:19] <hamitron> it is just security patches
[23:19] <hamitron> yes
[23:19] <hamitron> it hasn't arrived yet
[23:19] <HazRPG> has your... oh
[23:19] <HazRPG> mine did this morning
[23:19] <hamitron> wtf
[23:19] <hamitron> not fair :/
[23:20] <HazRPG> totally
[23:20] <HazRPG> did you get yours at the same time as mine?
[23:20] <hamitron> I ordered within the same 15 mins?
[23:20] <HazRPG> hmm
[23:20] <hamitron> just as it was said on IRC actually
[23:20] <HazRPG> where's your geo-location in the UK (north, south, etc)
[23:20] <hamitron> East Yorkshire
[23:20] <hamitron> say "where" and I kill you
[23:20] <hamitron> ;/
[23:21]  * Azelphur puts his giffgaff sim in
[23:21] <HazRPG> heh, I'm better at geography then history ^^
[23:21] <hamitron> pffffft
[23:21] <HazRPG> Azelphur: rofl, timing :P
[23:21] <hamitron> now I just need a phone
[23:21] <Azelphur> :D
[23:21] <hamitron> does the free internet cover 2G?
[23:22] <HazRPG> I would have thought that you'd have gotten yours before me
[23:22] <HazRPG> I'm in cumbria :/
[23:22]  * hamitron shrugs
[23:22] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah it will do
[23:22] <HazRPG> it just means internet in general
[23:22] <hamitron> I'll know by 3pm tomorrow if it has arrived :/
[23:22] <HazRPG> in-fact they'll probably prefer users to us 2G instead of 3G+
[23:23] <hamitron> lazy ass postal service personel
[23:23] <HazRPG> cos it's less data traffic than 3G users
[23:23] <hamitron> ngage ftw \o/
[23:23] <dwatkins> If you have an allowance of 500 MB a month, you'd have difficulty using it up over 2G.
[23:23] <hamitron> shame they closed arena :/
[23:23] <HazRPG> \o/
[23:23] <HazRPG> agreed, I still have my n-gage :)
[23:24] <HazRPG> Azelphur: have you activated yours yet?
[23:24] <hamitron> what is the date of that tech show sony may release psp 2 info?
[23:24] <HazRPG> hamitron: I feel your pain - they have sort of re-opened it up as Ovi though
[23:25] <hamitron> I got a 5230
[23:25] <HazRPG> pass, didn't know there was going to be one?
[23:25] <hamitron> ovi maps is actually ok
[23:25] <Azelphur> HazRPG: about to
[23:25] <hamitron> but I sold it
[23:25] <hamitron> :)
[23:25] <hamitron> no wifi = no fun
[23:26] <hamitron> especially when you are as tight as me with credit ;)
[23:26] <dwatkins> I have a phone with no SIM card, just wifi. IT's not much use really, as I have a computer anyway.
[23:26] <HazRPG> Azelphur: if you don't want to top-up and get goody bags at the same time... you can always put in just £10 credit to get your free £5, and then later get a goody bag of your choice later
[23:26] <Azelphur> I was going to try out the £10 goodybag
[23:26] <hamitron> dwatkins: TOY
[23:27] <hamitron> ;)
[23:27] <hamitron> or am I missing the point of a phone (as a ngage user) ;/
[23:27] <dwatkins> hamitron: indeed, it is currently used for playing Angry Birds
[23:27] <hamitron> \o/
[23:27] <HazRPG> I sat for an hour with the SIM in my hand going "man, if I get a goody bag only, will I not get the free £5... how bout if I get the £10 top-up and then just buy the goodybag if I need it later"
[23:28] <HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah but if you get the goodybag you won't get the free £5 - I looked it up
[23:28] <ali1234> what is a giffgaff?
[23:28] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66UHmd0AK4
[23:28] <bigcalm> Something for the riffraff
[23:28] <HazRPG> heh was just about to link that too
[23:28] <ali1234> also what is a facebook goodybag?
[23:29] <HazRPG> http://giffgaff.com/index/us <== has that video on it + info
[23:29] <hamitron> make sure ali uses someone link to get the free credit...
[23:29] <HazRPG> indeed :)
[23:29] <hamitron> someones
[23:29] <Azelphur> HazRPG: oh, so buy a £5 top up
[23:29] <Azelphur> and then buy £10 goodybag if I want it?
[23:29] <Azelphur> and end up only spending £10 total
[23:29] <HazRPG> nah, minimum top-up on activation is £10
[23:29] <HazRPG> best to get that
[23:30] <HazRPG> which will give you a free £5 credit
[23:30] <hamitron> don't you get free internet till end of feb, just for topping up?
[23:30] <Azelphur> heh
[23:30] <Azelphur> might as well get the goodybag then
[23:30] <HazRPG> then go grab a goodybag and set it to take the money from your credit instead
[23:30] <Azelphur> ohhh
[23:30] <Azelphur> ok
[23:31] <HazRPG> hamitron: think that's a goody bag
[23:31] <hamitron> I not read closely yet
[23:31] <HazRPG> moment, going to setup guitar hero for my sister
[23:32] <hamitron> how large is a typical /boot folder these days?
[23:32] <Azelphur> HazRPG / hamitron / popey one thing that confuses me about giffgaff, they run off the O2 network, why do they charge most to call o2?
[23:33] <Azelphur> that's a bit broken
[23:33] <ali1234> about 5mb per installed kernel
[23:33] <hamitron> ty ali
[23:33] <ali1234> bit more maybe, say 10mb
[23:33] <hamitron> so 200mb is enough
[23:33] <ali1234> yeah
[23:34] <HazRPG> yeah
[23:34] <HazRPG> I tend to set it to 256MB or 512MB
[23:34] <HazRPG> just for round figures ^^
[23:34] <HazRPG> Azelphur: how do you mean?
[23:35] <hamitron> I'll prob aim for 192mb ;)
[23:35] <Azelphur> HazRPG: on the payg look at http://giffgaff.com/index/offer
[23:35] <Azelphur> HazRPG: giffgaff is O2 based, and yet they charge the most to call/text to O2
[23:35] <Azelphur> :S
[23:35] <HazRPG> Azelphur: probably have a deal with o2 to use their masts, but not to give offers away since they're rival companies essentially
[23:35] <hamitron> do they get more money for incoming calls from other networks?
[23:35] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:36] <Azelphur> hamitron: they do but only till some time next month I think
[23:36] <hamitron> one of the goody bags gives you free mins for each incoming call
[23:36] <hamitron> or is that a temp thing?
[23:36] <Azelphur> that's temp
[23:37] <Azelphur> http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/593
[23:37] <ali1234> looks pretty lame to me
[23:37] <HazRPG> ali1234: what does?
[23:37] <ali1234> if you want to earn money from signing people up for a mobile phone, go work in a call centre. you'll earn more
[23:37]  * hamitron is scared to transfer his number, in case they go bust
[23:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: hehe, I'm more interested in the prices
[23:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: £10 for unlimited internet is woot
[23:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: they've been around since 2009
[23:38] <HazRPG> hamitron: so I doubt they will
[23:38] <hamitron> HazRPG: you consider that a long term standing company? :|
[23:38] <ali1234> £10 for unlimited internet is standard...
[23:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: nope, feel free to find anything close and point it out to me
[23:39] <ali1234> as you know, i pay £10/month for unlimited internet, 100 minutes and 100 texts
[23:39] <hamitron> but that is contract
[23:39] <hamitron> yeh?
[23:39] <ali1234> yes, of course
[23:39] <hamitron> this is good bags!
[23:39] <hamitron> goody*
[23:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: this is £10/mo for unlimited internet (NO FUP), unlimited texts (ALSO NO FUP), and 250 minutes
[23:39] <Azelphur> :)
[23:39] <ali1234> "no fup is *always* a lie
[23:40]  * hamitron agrees
[23:40] <Azelphur> I'll find out :D
[23:40] <ali1234> there will be a fup within 6 months, or they will go bust due to no customers
[23:40] <hamitron> but on orange PAYG, it costs a lot more for free internet
[23:40] <hamitron> £1 per day iirc?
[23:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: wat
[23:40] <HazRPG> ali1234, Azelphur, hamitron: I agree with Azelphur, prices for the goodybags are awesome. Me and my sister were discussing it earlier this afternoon about it. She's on a contract with (three? T-mobile? She has both :/) and they give her 1000 mins, unlimited txts & internet @ £30 a month (no inc. price for phone) - on giffgaff she could get the £25 goodybag and get 1500mins + unlimited txts & internet.
[23:40] <ali1234> either that or the whole pyramid scheme will collapse like they always do
[23:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: meh not like it's a contract either
[23:41] <Azelphur> jump on enjoy the ride when it dies switch
[23:41] <hamitron> Azelphur will take it down solo ;/
[23:41] <ali1234> they will get a really bad reputation too
[23:41] <ali1234> they must know this
[23:42] <ali1234> MLM schemes always do because they can't control the way people resell it
[23:42] <ali1234> so people will spam ads for it everywhere
[23:42] <ali1234> since they know they'll get a bad rep... what does this tell you about the people who run it?
[23:42] <hamitron> O2 won't want them killing their network either
[23:42] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[23:42] <ali1234> also notice you only get a rebate every 6 months
[23:43] <hamitron> I've decided I won't transfer my number though :)
[23:43] <ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if the thing was dead after 5 months and 29 days
[23:43] <Azelphur> lol
[23:43] <hamitron> what rebate?
[23:43] <Azelphur> well if it dies I'll just switch
[23:43] <hamitron> :|
[23:43] <HazRPG> heh, I'm not bothered... was planning on jumping ship to o2 anyways cos I get better signal @ with for o2... but with this, can better benefits and no tied contract to any crap
[23:43] <Azelphur> for now prices are excellent
[23:43] <ali1234> rebate for when you sign people up
[23:43] <ali1234> you do know about that right?
[23:43] <Azelphur> yup
[23:43] <Azelphur> I'm not in it for the rebates
[23:43] <Azelphur> I'm in it for £10 unlimited internets >:D
[23:43] <hamitron> free ride \o/
[23:44] <ali1234> no, but some people clearly are
[23:44] <hamitron> well, cheap
[23:44] <hamitron> ;)
[23:44] <ali1234> i dont know whats wrong with contract...
[23:44] <HazRPG> heh, I just want stuff for cheaper - couldn't care less for the rebate
[23:44] <hamitron> if you have a number with a mobile operator that goes bust.... can you move the number elsewhere?
[23:44] <ali1234> it is cheaper that payg
[23:45] <HazRPG> ali1234: all the companies have started rolling out minimum 24month contracts now :/
[23:45] <hamitron> not tesco ;)
[23:45] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah
[23:45] <ali1234> so what?
[23:45] <ali1234> you think you won't want a mobile phone in 2 years?
[23:45]  * hamitron dreams
[23:46] <hamitron> suppose it is what you get, expecting "free" expensive joining gifts
[23:47] <ali1234> payg is a false economy. the money you save by constantly switching is less than the money you save by jus going on a good value contract
[23:47] <HazRPG> ali1234: no, of course I will... but I'll use me as an example. I switched to three to get better deals, fantastic signal rates all the time, etc... and now I'm at home and I constantly get nasty texts from friends/business-men that I'm doing work for/etc because they can't get hold of me :/
[23:47] <ali1234> plus you have all the hassle
[23:47] <hamitron> my PAYG has only cost me £35 in 13 years :/
[23:47] <ali1234> PAYG with internet?
[23:48] <hamitron> I used my DSL for that bit
[23:48] <HazRPG> I get a signal rate of -101 dBs (or more) and less than 0-1 asu
[23:48] <HazRPG> half the time, people are just getting thrown onto my voicemail
[23:48] <ali1234> that's why contracts have a cooling off period...
[23:48] <HazRPG> I had 100 voicemails one day... man, I was stressed that day
[23:48] <ali1234> i turned off voicemail on my phone
[23:48] <ali1234> i hate it
[23:49] <hamitron> is skype an alternative to a phone?
[23:49] <ali1234> no
[23:49] <hamitron> like, viable
[23:49] <hamitron> k
[23:49] <hamitron> I was considering getting a number on it, then just using that
[23:49] <ali1234> not unless everyone you know is between the ages of 30 and 50 and middle class
[23:50] <hamitron> haha, why?
[23:50] <HazRPG> hamitron: it can be an alternative to using a landline - but it depends how you use it, I call my mum in egypt all the time and my dad in saudi
[23:50] <hamitron> I was thinking for incoming calls
[23:50] <hamitron> £20 per year for a number sounds ok
[23:51] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah but you need internet to do so
[23:51] <hamitron> I have it...
[23:51] <hamitron> ;/
[23:51] <hamitron> don't I?
[23:51] <hamitron> ;)
[23:51] <HazRPG> you can get skype on phones n stuff now... but you need to be in decent 3G range
[23:51] <hamitron> oh, I wasn't going to use it on a mobile
[23:51] <hamitron> just at home on wifi
[23:51] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, but you still have a landline rental though too ;) otherwise you wouldn't get internet in the first place
[23:52] <hamitron> yeh, that is fine
[23:52] <ali1234> hamitron: because that's the kind of people that use skype. and it is only worth it for skype2skype
[23:52] <hamitron> phone2skype is not worth it?
[23:52] <Azelphur> HazRPG: just to confirm, I put £10 credit, then I buy a goodybag with it right?
[23:52] <Azelphur> and then I have £5 free :P
[23:52] <HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah, that way you'll still have £5 floating in your account
[23:53] <HazRPG> Azelphur: but wait for the £5 credit to get added in
[23:53] <Azelphur> nice :D
[23:53] <HazRPG> shouldn't take too long
[23:53] <HazRPG> if you get just the goodybag, its pointless
[23:53] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:54] <HazRPG> likewise if you get the goodbag + credit... then your spending more money onto your phone
[23:54] <HazRPG> really depends how your going to use it, but personally I'm just trying it out for now so its better this way
[23:54] <hamitron> hassle changing sim all the time :/
[23:55] <HazRPG> ali1234: you were saying something about a grace period earlier on a contract - can't see it right now for some reason
[23:55] <HazRPG> ali1234: how do you mean?
[23:55] <HazRPG> ali1234: I was told about a year ago when I started having issues that I'd have to pay the remainder of the contract to cancel out of it
[23:56] <ali1234> the grace period is usually 14 days
[23:56] <HazRPG> which was about 6 months worth of £35
[23:56] <ali1234> long enough to find out you get no signal
[23:56] <HazRPG> ali1234: ah true
[23:56] <ali1234> i think it is in law
[23:56] <HazRPG> but I found I had great signal in that time
[23:56] <ali1234> even if it isn't in the contract
[23:56] <HazRPG> I had issues about 6 months down the line
[23:56] <hamitron> it is
[23:57] <hamitron> or at least was
[23:57] <HazRPG> yeah it is in the law, I looked into it at the time
[23:57] <HazRPG> anyways, I got stuck into a year and half contract, with something I had many issues with
[23:58] <HazRPG> so I've reverted to telling business-related people to ring me either at home or on my PAYG o2 mobile... otherwise I'd be screwed
[23:58] <ali1234> tell them to email you
[23:58] <HazRPG> ali1234: I'm in cumbria, not all sit at an inbox all day long :P
[23:59] <ali1234> phones do email...
[23:59] <HazRPG> ali1234: some guys that I have projects with, live on farms lol
[23:59] <hamitron> my last monitor had the instruction manual on cdrom :/
[23:59] <ali1234> well, ok, then
[23:59] <HazRPG> hehe cumbria is really backwards
[23:59] <hamitron> I can't wait for an ISP to have email only for faults
[23:59] <HazRPG> were a black zone for most things