[12:01] <robertj> are there any plans for a step-by-step testing how-to for laptop compatability?
[12:02] <Pupeno> I work with Lisp, so, for me, it is important to have recent versions of sbcl, slime, and lots of other packages related to Lisp. Ubuntu packages are outdated so I'm planning to make new packages whenever is possible. I notice for example, that there are some newer Lisp-related packages on Debian. So, what do you recomend me to do ?
[12:02] <\sh> Pupeno: kde guy right?
[12:03] <Pupeno> \sh: not anymore as I used to.
[12:03] <Pupeno> \sh: KDE is still my prefeered desktop, but I don't do KDE dev anymore.
[12:03] <\sh> Pupeno: but i think we had nice chats when I was coding kmyirc ;)
[12:04] <Pupeno> \sh: yes... I remember your 'weird' nick (no offense meant).
[12:05] <\sh> so, nice to meet u again :)
[12:06] <Pupeno> \sh: did you continue doing kmyirc ? how are you doing ?
[12:06] <\sh> Pupeno: well, no..konversation had more devs then kmyirc :)
[12:07] <\sh> Pupeno: now kmyirc is only a source for koders ;) (the new source code search engine)
[12:07] <Pupeno> It is awesome how you keep encountering people... I used to hang a lot on #kde-devel and then I encounter people from there on #kubuntu, #ubuntu-devel, and the people I know from #lisp appear on #dylan and so on... like a true net.
[12:09] <robertj> Pupeno: file a bug?
[12:10] <robertj> Pupeno: if its in Debian it should find it's way into Breezy automatically
[12:10] <seb128> what package?
[12:10] <ogra> ???
[12:10] <Pupeno> robertj: I like to file bug reports with some back up (like the package).
[12:10] <Pupeno> robertj: oh... but I'm not using Breezy.
[12:11] <robertj> <bother who='seb128'>Is Places Integration speced out yet on the wiki?</bother>
[12:11] <robertj> Pupeno: check breezy, if it's not there, then file a bug
[12:11] <Pupeno> seb128: sbcl, slime, cl-iterate and some others.
[12:11] <robertj> if it is there, wait for Breezy
[12:11] <seb128> robertj: not, it's supposd?
[12:11] <calc> Kamion: readonly fixed debconf but in a bad way
[12:11] <Pupeno> robertj: that's not an option for me, in that case, I'd start some backports or something like that.
[12:11] <calc> Kamion: it doesn't fall back to the underlying system config.dat in that case and just throws away the choices
[12:11] <seb128> pool/universe/s/sbcl/sbcl_<IP_ADDRESS>-1_i386.deb
[12:12] <Pupeno> seb128: that's too old.
[12:12] <Pupeno> sbcl 0.9.0 was released, and even in the 0.8 series, 0.8.21 was the latest.
[12:12] <calc> Kamion: also the documentation on how to use it is faulty. It says to use DEBCONF_DB_OVERRIDE='File{Filename:/foo Readonly:true}' but Filename and Readonly are invalid, filename doesn't exist at all as a keyword apparently and readonly has to be lowercase
[12:13] <robertj> seb128: kinda lost me on that last one though
[12:13] <seb128> Pupeno: you should become a MOTU and help to maintain the packages
[12:14] <seb128> Pupeno: breezy has 1:<IP_ADDRESS>-1
[12:14] <Pupeno> seb128: I'll do it if necesary... but before puting a label "MOTU" on my chest, I'd like to produce some packages.
[12:15] <robertj> what do you use LISP for?
[12:33] <g14> robertj: Artificial intelligence. Mostly robotics programming
[12:39] <robertj> gl4: ahh, academic, industrial, or *other* ;)
[12:44] <g14> robertj: Well my best friend used lisp olmost exclusively for his BA in Artificial Intelligence. Not sure about industrial usage though
[12:44] <robertj> ohh
[12:44] <robertj> why bother with a BA in AI?
[12:46] <g14> I asked him the same question :)
[12:46] <robertj> All the real good stuff requires too much math to cram into a 4 year degree
[12:46] <g14> Hes going for a masters, but is taking a break
[12:47] <KaiL_> Not sure about industrial usage though << in industry the arguments to select a tool are "the salesman said, it's good" and "evenybody uses it" - so why should they use lisp? ;)
[12:47] <robertj> I enjoyed my ARTI class, I whipped up on the grad-students
[12:47] <robertj> KaIL: because LISP was used when the first robotic arm was brought in 20 years ago?
[12:48] <KaiL_> ok, that could be an argument
[12:49] <KaiL_> ..until some salesman with some useless MS-Tool comes around the corner...
[12:49] <surak> who brings the /dev/shm/network to /dev? it's not udev...
[12:49] <robertj> there upper-level maths were no match for waypoints and brute force ;)
[12:53] <robertj> also cheating!
[12:54] <robertj> bump a tree...get an apple...get enough apples, monsters cant move adjacent to you ;)
[02:18] <jdub> o/~ don't look down, no, no - go, go, underground! o/~
[02:21] <jdub> tseng: ping
[03:04] <jnc> mmm... i wish libgtkspell0 would get updated and stuff
[03:35] <tseng> jdub: hi
[04:21] <lamont> ../../libparted/linux.c:1416: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
[04:21] <lamont> ew
[04:29] <lamont> daniels: you around?
[04:30] <daniels> of course not
[04:32] <lamont> heh.
[04:32] <daniels> 'sup?
[04:32] <lamont> /usr/include/X11/xpm.h isn't there... is that a build-dep, or missing component in the #include?
[04:32] <lamont> gcc -I. -I.. -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/freetype2/freetype -I/usr/include/X11 -g
[04:32] <lamont> +-Wall -O2 -D_REENTRANT -pipe -DHAVE_LIBPNG -DHAVE_LIBFREETYPE -DHAVE_LIBJPEG -fPIC -DHAVE_XPM
[04:32] <lamont> +-c -o gdxpm.o ../gdxpm.c
[04:32] <lamont> ../gdxpm.c:22:17: error: xpm.h: No such file or directory
[04:33] <daniels> -I/usr/X11R6/include
[04:33] <daniels> actually, would need to be -I/usr/X11R6/include/X11 in this case
[04:33] <jnc> erg...  if 'dmesg' disappears.   what package is supposed to provide that again?
[04:33] <daniels> dpkg -S dmesg, should tell you
[04:33] <lamont> jnc: util-linux
[04:33] <jnc> i thought it was util-linux
[04:33] <jnc> oh well
[04:33] <jnc> i guess it's acting up again in breezy :)
[04:34] <jnc> daniels: thanks
[04:42] <daniels> lamont: hey, it's not xorg breakage, it's application stupidity :)
[04:42] <daniels> lamont: in any case, it really really should be <X11/xpm.h>
[04:44] <jbailey> lamont: pong.
[04:45] <lamont> daniels: yeah, well x0rg broke it.
[04:45] <lamont> it used to work just fine... :-(
[04:45] <lamont> jbailey: nfc what I wanted earlier
[04:45] <daniels> lamont: xorg exposed previous breakage that used to work through luck
[04:45] <daniels> when was that app written, anyway?  1991?
[04:45] <jbailey> lamont: *lol*
[04:45] <lamont> yeah, same thing.
[04:46] <jbailey> lamont: glibc?  arts?
[04:46] <jbailey> lamont: I'm trying to go through the scrollback and catch up.
[04:46] <daniels> /usr/include/X11 is old-school
[04:46] <lamont> jbailey: dunno
[04:46] <daniels> common usage of that predates r6
[04:46] <lamont> daniels: so is a lot of code... :-)
[04:46] <daniels> yeah, r6 was released 11 years and 5 days ago
[04:46] <lamont> heh
[04:46] <lamont> could be about time to fix them, eh?
[04:47] <lamont> and the fixed code will work either way, yes? (with or without symlinks)
[04:47] <daniels> lamont: indeed
[04:47] <daniels> lamont: if you fix it to <X11/xpm.h> and add -I/usr/X11R6/include, that's the best way
[04:47] <daniels> since that will also pick up when I move xpm.h to /usr/include/X11
[04:49] <lamont> I figure I'll bounce it against mdz on monday, and then file all the hppa ftbfs packages as bugs...
[04:49] <lamont> they're almost all really broken in the archive.
[04:49] <lamont> alternatively, we could fire up breezy-test
[04:50] <lamont> daniels: how soon you going to be done monkeying with include paths?
[04:50] <lamont> because we may as well wait until then to run breezy-test
[04:53] <daniels> lamont: probably another week, at this rate
[04:53] <lamont> ok.
[04:57] <jnc> /bin/bash: line 0: cd: build-tree/libfwbuilder-2.0.7: No such file or directory
[04:57] <jnc> :(
[04:58] <jnc> i'm new at making packages
[04:58] <jnc> it's quite a bit more confusing than the gentoo stuffs i am used to
[05:10] <lamont> jnc: debian/rules is just a makefile
[05:12] <jnc> i think what i'm missing is how to make this automated and easy to do without thinking much
[05:12] <jnc> i seem to be spending a lot of time when new versions of my favorite fw ruleset software comes out, tweaking so the new packages build
[05:20] <ghpolo> is there an upcoming fix for util-linux package ?
[05:20] <ghpolo> @ breezy
[05:21] <Burgundavia> ghpolo, there is already a bug filed about it, so it will be fixed. Please be patient and don't come and bug the developers about it
[05:21] <ghpolo> im patient
[05:21] <ghpolo> ^^
[05:24] <jnc> ghpolo: random stuff missing for you too, eh?
[05:24] <ghpolo> yes, since yesterday i believe
[05:24] <ghpolo> i posted once at mailisting aswell
[05:24] <ghpolo> just checking how many people got it ^^
[05:25] <ghpolo> dmesg, getty etc
[05:25] <jnc> does that mean i should not reboot? ;o)
[05:25] <ghpolo> i didnt ^^
[05:25] <jnc> would suck if i could not log in haha
[05:26] <ghpolo> or you could compile util-linux to get these tools again
[05:26] <jnc> i'm preoccupied making fwbuilder packages
[05:26] <jnc> i can live without computer upstairs
[05:26] <ghpolo> heh
[05:27] <jnc> if my phone service (VoIP controlled by fwbuilder rulesets on a wrt54gs) goes out... bad things happen to my paycheck
[05:30] <lamont> evening doko
[05:30] <lamont> or is that just you bouncing?
[05:31] <crimsun> the latter, I think
[05:31] <lamont> I rather expect so - it's kinda past his bedtime otherwise
[05:40] <ghpolo> hmm
[05:40] <ghpolo> someone know a way to fix a really messed terminal ?
[05:40] <ghpolo> (reset doesnt fix it)
[07:33] <jdub> tseng: filed a bug on muine in malone :)
[07:53] <g14> Why doesn't ubuntu use the suse cdrecord packages that have dvd+rw support built in? suse had to fork the code to do it
[07:53] <g14> I just got a great error telling me to buy cdrecord-PRODVD from gnomebaker and wasn't very pleased
[07:54] <fabbione> g14: man growfs
[07:54] <bob2> did you install dvdrecord?
[07:54] <fabbione> that's all you need :)
[07:54] <fabbione> bob2: no no.. that's insane crap :)
[07:54] <bob2> hah
[07:54] <fabbione> just use growisofs
[07:54] <fabbione> or something like that
[07:54] <fabbione> yeah growisofs
[07:56] <g14> Free software shouldn't ask you to upgrade to the pro version for more features
[07:57] <daniels> g14: could you please file a bug instead of repeating it on irc?
[07:57] <fabbione> or use growisofs
[07:57] <g14> I'll do both for now
[07:58] <g14> fabbione: Thanks for the help
[07:58] <fabbione> np
[10:50] <pitti> Hi
[10:57] <Hussam> I just wanted to point out that breezy's util-linux is missing /sbin/hwclock
[10:57] <Amaranth> known, bug report filed
[10:57] <bob2> please file a bug if no one else has
[10:58] <Amaranth> util-linux is also missing dmesg and getty, i wouldn't restart if i were you
[10:58] <bob2> hah
[10:58] <Amaranth> ack, he left
[10:58] <bob2> hm, where are the 2.6.12 test kernels?
[10:58] <Amaranth> in universe
[10:58] <bob2> ah
[10:58] <bob2> ta
[10:59] <Amaranth> you can't build modules for them
[10:59] <bob2> oh, I know
[10:59] <Amaranth> the 2.6.12 kernels are compiled with gcc 3.4 and ubuntu only provides 3.3 and 4.0
[10:59] <bob2> I'm building a new install iso to see if 2.6.12 works with my sata controller
[10:59] <bob2> I do know what a kernel abi is :-)
[11:01] <cartman> fuck dmesg is gone lol
[11:01] <Amaranth> yes
[11:01] <cartman> Amaranth: thanks for info :)
[11:01] <Amaranth> don't restart
[11:01] <cartman> I am dead by next electric shortage
[11:01] <cartman> *g*
[11:01] <Amaranth> cartman: this is for smeg :)
[11:02] <cartman> I love bleeding edge software :)
[11:02] <Amaranth> oh, wrong channel
[11:02] <Amaranth> nevermind about smeg
[11:02] <Treenaks> I love greasemonkey.. it makes on-line banking so much nicer :)
[11:02] <cartman> Treenaks: how come?
[11:03] <Treenaks> cartman: I have a script that fixes broken popup stuff ("javascript:" links) and one that removes all target="_blank" attributes
[11:03] <cartman> ha nice :)
[11:03] <Treenaks> cartman: so it doesn't open new windows unless I ask it anymore..
[11:05] <Simira> morning Treenaks!
[11:05] <Treenaks> hi Simira
[11:05] <Simira> I've got a little case for you ;)
[11:07] <cartman> anyone got the # of util-linux bug?
[11:07] <bob2> cdebootstrap seems very unhappy about using hoary as the suite
[11:14] <jdub> FEAR THE XORG UPLOAD
[11:15] <Simira> jdub: doesn't your mother use Ubuntu?
[11:16] <jdub> Simira: my metaphorical mother does
[11:16] <Amaranth> jdub: daniels broke more things? :)
[11:17] <Treenaks> Amaranth: no, it was fabbione this time :P
[11:17] <Treenaks> or was it seb? :P
[11:17] <Amaranth> uh oh
[11:17] <Amaranth> i don't see any xorg upgrades available, i must have them already
[11:18] <Amaranth> so, don't restart x then? :)
[11:18] <Treenaks> Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 10:10:11 +0100 (BST)
[11:18] <Treenaks> Amaranth: ot jasm
[11:18] <Treenaks> *ahem*
[11:18] <Treenaks> it hasn't been built yet
[11:18] <Amaranth> ah
[11:18] <Amaranth> wtf did you say before that?
[11:18] <Treenaks> Amaranth: "it hasn" with one hand shifted
[11:19] <Treenaks> and I hit enter instead of backspace
[11:19] <cartman> Amaranth: ha :)
[11:19] <daniels> jdub: small uploads are for weenies
[11:19] <daniels> jdub: although the codebase is at least shrinking every time I upload it
[11:19] <Amaranth> Treenaks: that's worse than ;p; (lol)
[11:19] <Treenaks> Amaranth: :)
[11:20] <jdub> daniels: getting rid of all those syscalls ;)
[11:20] <daniels> heh
[11:20] <daniels> syscalls are shit, who needs 'em?
[11:20] <jdub> yeah, just get in the way
[11:21] <Amaranth> hey if it's shrinking that means more room on the live cd
[11:25] <cartman> uhgm btw libtunepimp2 has wrong deps.
[11:26] <cartman> depends on libmusicbrainz4 instead of libmusicbrainz4c2
[11:30] <Treenaks> tunepimp?
[11:30] <daniels> cartman: needs a recompile
[11:30] <Pupeno> I have just finished packaging sbcl 0.9.0 for (k)ubuntu! :D
[11:30] <cartman> daniels: okies
[11:32] <Burgundavia> Pupeno, most things are synced from debian
[11:32] <Burgundavia> Pupeno, I noticed that sid already has 0.9, so it will hit ubuntu breezy very soon
[11:32] <Pupeno> Burgundavia: I know, but there were not sbcl 0.9.0 for hoary.
[11:33] <Burgundavia> Pupeno, taking this to -motu
[11:33] <Pupeno> oks.
[11:46] <bob2> cdrecord should be able to burn cds on a dvd drive, right?
[11:47] <cartman> daniels: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10942 sounds similar to my weird xkb issue
[11:48] <cartman> actually its the same =)
[11:48] <cartman> looking at comments
[11:49] <Burgundavia> cartman, all breezy users are seeing it
[11:49] <cartman> ok
[12:13] <cartman> bah xorg failed :/
[12:21] <Kamion> bob2: cdebootstrap doesn't support Ubuntu yet
[12:21] <bob2> ah
[12:22] <Kamion> use debootstrap
[12:22] <bob2> I gathered that, I was just kinda surprised it had hard-coded suites at all
[12:22] <bob2> yeah, I do, this was for dfsbuild
[12:23] <Kamion> I don't think cdebootstrap is quite the answer to all everyone's ills that it's cracked up to be
[12:24] <bob2> heh
[12:28] <bob2> hah, debootstrap on ubuntu even loads the archive key into gpg
[12:32] <jdub> yo Kamion
[12:33] <Kamion> bob2: right, it's on aj's list to merge to Debian ...
[12:33] <Kamion> jdub: yo
[12:58] <m0rphx> what happened with util-linux in breezy? dmesg, getty... are missing
[12:59] <Kamion> yes, known bug
[12:59] <m0rphx> k
[12:59] <Kamion> I was actually just in the middle of looking through source packages for that, but got distracted ...
[01:00] <cartman> m0rphx: don't reboot until it gets fixed
[01:01] <Kamion> ... oh, I bet I know
[01:01] <m0rphx> cartman: hehe, I already did. But thanks to the live CD I can boot again
[01:01] <Kamion> yay dpkg
[01:01] <cartman> m0rphx: oh ok :)
[01:01] <Kamion> ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM),linux)
[01:02] <Kamion> fixing
[01:02] <cartman> Kamion: that will fix util-linux too? :)
[01:03] <Kamion> I'm fixing util-linux
[01:03] <cartman> yay =)
[01:07] <jdub> SCHNNNNNAAAAAAKE!
[01:36] <tseng> jdub: did you assign it to me? last i looked i cant search bugs
[01:36] <tseng> jdub: until they "release" a new malone
[01:42] <tseng> jdub: uh... yeah you are going to have to go back and assign it to me please, there is no other way to get to it
[01:42] <tseng> oh its near the top
[01:42] <tseng> and yes, we knew that
[01:43] <tseng> i need dbus update before i can build muine with fixed dh_clideps
[01:47] <Kamion> util-linux fix upload; will be available in an hour and a half or so
[01:58] <xxenon> x.org broken in breezy ? (no "*fixed font" or something...)
[01:59] <Kamion> font path changed
[01:59] <xxenon> from what to what ?
[02:00] <willis> xxenon: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[02:00] <willis> xxenon: then restart x and that might help
[02:00] <xxenon> okay
[02:00] <Kamion> xxenon: see the changelog
[02:00] <xxenon> k.
[02:01] <willis> Kamion: i meant to ask about util-linux, it seems to be missing /sbin/getty
[02:02] <Kamion> willis: already fixed
[02:02] <Kamion> 12:47 < Kamion> util-linux fix upload; will be available in an hour and a half or so
[02:02] <willis> Kamion: cool thanks very much
[02:02] <Kamion> that was 15 minutes ago
[02:02] <Kamion> ... and s/upload/uploaded/
[02:10] <hunger> Why was blockdev removed from util-linux?
[02:12] <hunger> Was that fixed by Kamions recent upload of util-linux?
[02:17] <Kamion> hunger: yes.
[02:18] <hunger> Kamion: You rock!
[02:18] <hunger> Kamion: thanks.
[02:53] <Mithrandir> is it on purpose that util-linux no longer includes getty?
[02:53] <bob2> 22:02:23         Kamion |  12:47 < Kamion> util-linux fix upload; will be available in an hour and a half or so
[02:54] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[02:54] <bob2> more amusingly, it's scott's fault
[02:56] <Mithrandir> how so?
[02:56] <Mithrandir> it's the amazing dpkg?
[03:04] <hunger> Kamion: Indeed, badblocks is back from the dead.
[03:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: DEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM changed
[03:11] <GheRivero> res
[03:24] <Mirv> does someone happen to know if moinmoin can be forced to reload wikiconfig.py? with ordinary user privileges..
[03:24] <Mirv> or does someone even know what's the delay?
[03:43] <trulux> pitti: ping
[03:44] <pitti> hey trulux
[03:45] <trulux> pitti: checked that last krsec?
[03:46] <trulux> pitti: I think that worked as expected, right?
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: You told me to wait since you wanted to port it to 2.6.12
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: you have a never version now?
[03:48] <trulux> pitti: yup, porting
[03:48] <trulux> pitti: just ended fixing akpm's patch-scripts and fixing a broken patches stack
[03:48] <trulux> pitti: weird thing ;(
[03:49] <pitti> Hi lamont
[03:49] <trulux> pitti: will get it going on well after lunch
[03:49] <trulux> pitti: are you going to be here for long?
[03:49] <pitti> trulux: I have to go soon, prepare a party for tonight
[03:50] <pitti> trulux: I will return tomorrow around noon, I'll be happy to build a new kernel then
[03:50] <lamont> morning pitti
[03:50] <trulux> pitti: OK, great anyways
[03:50] <trulux> pitti: will upload my SELinux-enabled packages soon
[03:55] <Riddell> Kamion: do you know why kdenetwork got into hoary-updates but knetworkconf hasn't
[04:26] <robertj> are there any plans for Device Manager to manage devices in the breezy timeframe? If not, a name change might be good.
[05:19] <lamont> elmo/Kamion: x11proto-* need some NEW love
[06:57] <Kamion> Riddell: no.
[06:58] <Kamion> Riddell: it's all buildd stuff from here; please stop asking me about it, I'm sorry but I don't know exactly what the buildds are configured to do and I don't have access to the relevant machines to find out.
[07:00] <daniels> lamont: should've just been DMX
[07:00] <Kamion> Riddell: it seems likely that it was in @no_auto_build (which affects all suites) and that the buildds will get to it in time.
[07:01] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, sorry for the hassle
[07:01] <Kamion> lamont: NEW's empty, I guess elmo did it
[07:01] <Kamion> Riddell: np
[07:40] <Xgates> hey all
[07:41] <Xgates> quick compile question, the DEV team compiles with this flag -->  -march=i386 mcpu=i686?
[07:42] <Xgates> since ubuntu lists the .debs as i386 I'd figure this then has to be correct, BUT for the life of me can't figure why anyone would use i386 anymore since this is very old and all distros are now going at least at i486
[07:42] <Xgates> even Slack is i486
[07:43] <daniels> we use -mcpu=pentium4
[07:43] <daniels> as I explained in #ubuntu
[07:43] <Xgates> you've GOT to be joking right?
[07:43] <Xgates> please tell me so
[07:44] <Xgates> you dont want to do that
[07:44] <lamont> elmo/Kamion: xorg build-deps: x11proto-bigreqs-dev, x11proto-composite-dev, x11proto-damage-dev, x11proto-evie-dev, x11proto-fixes-dev, x11proto-dmx-dev
[07:44] <lamont> but some of those are universe...
[07:44] <daniels> they all need to be promoted to main
[07:44] <Xgates> daniels: you must not be into multimedia or know anything about it then for CPU optimizations
[07:45] <lamont> Xgates: note also that -march=i486 -mtune=pentium4 is the default in the compiler...
[07:45] <Xgates> that is not good then
[07:45] <daniels> Xgates: shit dude, I didn't do it, why are you laying into me?
[07:45] <Xgates> mcpu=i686 is generic P4 is not
[07:45] <lamont> Xgates: anything that does signifcant amounts of multimedia already does -march=pentium4 and -march=k7 and runs the right bits at runtime.
[07:45] <Xgates> daniels: sorry I'm not hehe ;-)
[07:45] <lamont> Xgates: please show me an app that runs slow.
[07:45] <daniels> if you want to put a clearly-reasoned argument, then do it on the mailing list, but wandering into IRC and laying into random developers at 0345 who have nothing to do with it is not the best idea
[07:46] <lamont> Xgates: and be sure to include an actual use case.
[07:46] <lamont> that is, an app that isn't _ALREADY_ compiling multiple versions and doing runtime detection
[07:46] <Xgates> lamont: thats not the point P4 optimiztion as in running the compile flag -mcpu-pentium4 is not correct for overall general compiling for the masses
[07:47] <lamont> Xgates: tell you what... compile the package both ways, and then tell me that you can determine which build you're running just by how fast it runs
[07:47] <Xgates> ppl using i586 or in that ball park or even the possible slight few running a i486 will have problems not to mention this is just not correct for AMD
[07:47] <daniels> Kamion: if there's some sort of main pre-seeding, then x11proto-{fonts,fontcache,gl,input,kb,panoramix,randr,record,resource,scrnsaver,trap,video,xcmisc,xext,xf86bigfont,xf86dga,xf86misc,xf86vidmode}-dev all need to go in
[07:47] <Xgates> lamont: speed is not the issue it's the optimizations of that particular CPU
[07:48] <Xgates> a P4 is not a AMD and vice versa and you should at least know that
[07:48] <lamont> Xgates: yes. in certain corner cases, the instructions will be scheduled in a less than optimal way for certain hardware.
[07:48] <daniels> Xgates: 'you should at least know that', 'you must not know anything about this' ... neither of these are good ways to make friends
[07:48] <Xgates> lamont: dude plain and simple this is just not correct compiling Ubuntu needs to start compiling this as -mcpu=i686
[07:49] <lamont> Xgates: there was talk back in warty of doing a separate K7 tree.  That was scrapped, pending someone showing anywhere that it actually made a visible difference to the user
[07:49] <daniels> Xgates: your argument is terrible
[07:49] <Xgates> that is a much better flag all the way across the board for i686 CPUS
[07:49] <daniels> Xgates: when I said make a well-reasoned argument, that means put some reasons behind it
[07:49] <daniels> saying 'this is better, it must be done' is not a well-reasoned argument
[07:49] <daniels> and saying that the other people obviously don't know anything about it is an even worse way to do things
[07:49] <Xgates> daniels: not it is  not anyone with any compiling experience knows whats going on here and we would not even be talking about this
[07:49] <lamont> Xgates: starting with _ANY_ application that shows a noticible difference in performance between -mtune=686 and -mtune=pentium4, on amd64 or p4
[07:50] <daniels> Xgates: if you're going to keep arguing with that, then I will put you in +q
[07:50] <Xgates> daniels: it's real simple and it does not even need to be technical you either know what a P4 is and a AMD is or someone does not
[07:50] <Xgates> and it's clear that you dont then
[07:50] <lamont> Xgates: ad hominum attacks don't count as well reasoned
[07:50] <lamont> Xgates: sure we know the difference
[07:50] <daniels> Xgates: at the moment, all you're doing is annoying a lot of people.
[07:50] <lamont> and frankly, any real application either (1) does it at runtime, or (2) doesn't care.
[07:51] <Xgates> sorry I'm not here to troll and bother you I just dont get the reason the DEV team would do something like this that would be a hinderance
[07:51] <Xgates> OH
[07:51] <Xgates> and yes I can tell you that on my AMD T-bird
[07:51] <Xgates> the slow down was in fact very bad
[07:52] <lamont> Xgates: for what application?
[07:52] <daniels> bored now
[07:52] <lamont> and running which kernel?
[07:52] <lamont> ah, but it was just getting interesting
[07:52] <daniels> if you want to actually put some reasons behind this (not 'it's right and if you don't agree you don't know anything'), do it on the mailing list
[07:57] <lamont> Xgates: seriously - if there is a significant perf difference that the user can see, it'd be of interest.  It'd also be the first one we've seen in about a year, and > 1M CD's....
[09:23] <thesaltydog>  /msg thesaltydog IDENTIFY 140289
[09:24] <thesaltydog>  /msg NickServ thesaltydog 140289
[09:24] <ogra> hmm, thanks for your passwrod... you should remove the whitespace in the front
[09:24] <zyga> ;-))
[09:25] <thesaltydog> that's not my password :-)
[09:25] <thesaltydog> thanks
[09:25] <ogra> nope, i guess its your b-day
[09:25] <zyga> it sure belongs to everyone now ;]
[09:29] <thesaltydog> ..
[09:30] <unifi> how many developers work directly for ubuntu here?
[09:34] <jnc> erg... advansys scsi module not building with kernel 2.6.12-<IP_ADDRESS>
[09:34] <jnc> it's not in the menuconfig
[09:34] <jnc> i wonder what happened
[09:56] <thesaltydog> whcih is the policy to include an application into Rosetta, for localization?
[09:58] <ogra> thesaltydog, did you ask in #launchpad ?
[09:58] <thesaltydog> nope..
[09:59] <thesaltydog> I will..
[10:00] <thesaltydog> I have just put the question.. waiting for a reply..
[10:03] <thesaltydog> ogra,  it seems that only ghosts are there
[10:03] <ogra> hmm
[10:04] <tuhl> after my latest update on breezy X is broken
[10:04] <tuhl> on my IBM notebook and a workstation
[10:05] <g14> tuhl: Read this channel topic :-)
[10:05] <tuhl> gcc4 transition starting, breezy probably well broken?
[10:05] <ogra> its a expected side effect, adjust your fontpaths or regenerate your config
[10:06] <tuhl> ogra: how is the config regenerated?
[10:07] <ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg ? dunno, i didnt upgrade my breezy yet because i need my keymap and fonts ;)
[10:17] <cartman> any news on how the transition is going? :/
[10:18] <lu|away> hehe
[10:18] <lu|away> yeah
[10:18] <lu|away> someone needs to blog a daily 'breezy is *this* ____________ broken' update
[10:18] <lu|away> :)
[10:20] <cartman> just wondering I run breezy now and yeah its borked ;)
[10:54] <robertj> Did 2004 bounty budget roll over into 2005?
[11:03] <mako> dude, 2 extra gigs
[11:06] <robertj> mako: why are you digging through userlinux stuff?
[11:07] <mako> robertj: digging through, i've rewritten it :)
[11:07] <ogra> yay amko
[11:07] <ogra> mako
[11:07] <robertj> but err, why?
[11:07] <mako> robertj: i've made the userlinux metapackages installable on ubuntu
[11:07] <ogra> because people might want to use them
[11:08] <robertj> ahh for terminal server and the like?
[11:08] <mako> yeah, anyone that is intersted in userlinux can now use them from ubuntu
[11:08] <mako> i'm not sure they are going to be particularly useful really
[11:08] <mako> i mean, i won't use them
[11:08] <mako> but people seem to like userlinux
[11:08] <mako> so, they will like these
[11:08] <mako> it's also a nice thing we can do to fix their broken packages
[11:09] <mako> and it's a good step toward debian-distribution merging
[11:09] <mako> showing that we can all get along and even work together and share packages
[11:09] <g14> mako: Whats so great about userlinux? Doesn't ubuntu do what Bruce wanted to do and then some?
[11:09] <robertj> g14: shhh ;)
[11:09] <mako> g14: um.. it does for me :)
[11:09] <mako> g14: well, what userlinux has that we don't is a set of metapackages targetted at enterprises
[11:09] <robertj> actually UserLinux has alot of other goals that Ubuntu isn't near ( a certification program ), but Ubuntu is certianly nearer meeting the UL goals than UL is
[11:10] <mako> to make certain software configurations easily installable
[11:10] <mako> and i've just ported that to ubuntu
[11:10] <g14> mako: I understand, ubuntu will meet most of the UL goals before UL will though more than likely
[11:10] <robertj> the #1 metapackage most people want is a LDAP/KRB/SMB/PAM package that takes care of all the fuss
[11:11] <robertj> at least around our uni
[11:12] <g14> SSO and a directory server, that would be really nice
[11:12] <g14> If redhat would just hurry up and gpl the Netscape Directory Server they bought a year ago and said they would open source
[11:12] <robertj> gl4: I use Panther for that at work, it's pretty good at it
[11:13] <robertj> gl4: anyone who is large enough that slapd aint' gonna cut it probably doesn't need/benefit from a metapackage anyway
[11:13] <robertj> gl4: its just slapd, kerberos, and samba with sensible configs and a few gui tools
[11:14] <g14> robertj: OpenLDAP lacks many enterprise features that other directory servers feature. Yes, I've mucked around with ldap and kerberos
[11:14] <robertj> its still not perfect, like it will hang without prompting you if you give it a password protected cert, and won't give you a prompt to enter in the password
[11:14] <mako> hm.. liboil0.2 problems
[11:14] <robertj> gl4: yes it does, but it works "well enough"
[11:15] <g14> robertj: I agree, I've been trying to get hula email server set up with LDAP
[11:15] <g14> hula is purty
[11:15] <g14> http://www.hula-project.org/Hula_Server
[11:16] <ogra> g14, did you use our hula package for that ?
[11:16] <hunger> The new twm has --slave settings in wrong order and thus does not configure.
[11:17] <g14> ogra: Actually, I do qa, I always use the latest svn and install it with checkinstall
[11:17] <ogra> sad
[11:17] <hunger> in update-alternatives in its postinstall.
[11:17] <mako> ok.. liboil0.2
[11:17] <ogra> i hoped i could hear some feedback from an actual user of the packages
[11:18] <elmo> mako: is obsolete
[11:18] <g14> ogra: The hula package in hoary universe is svn 162, they are currently up to rev 218. I would use it if it was updated every few weeks
[11:18] <ogra> heh, we cant
[11:18] <g14> ogra: But thats too much to ask of a busy ubuntu maintainer
[11:19] <ogra> no, we have a policy about updates in stable releases, we simply cant update it
[11:19] <g14> ogra: The novell guys I talk to say it will be "production ready" 1.0 somewhere around August
[11:20] <ogra> thats great, then we can have nice packages in breezy based on the current ones...
[11:20] <g14> I understand the stable packaging policy, its the debian mantra. Maybe hula 1.0 can be in breezy universe :)
[11:20] <g14> yes
[11:20] <mako> elmo: right.. and is not there
[11:20] <elmo> mako: why's your meta package depending on it?
[11:20] <mako> elmo: it's not.. other things are
[11:21] <g14> ogra: I've been talking with the hula and openchange devs so sometime in the future, hula will feature native mapi / outlook integration
[11:22] <tseng> ogra: shudder?
[11:22] <elmo> mako: in breezy?
[11:22] <tseng> ogra: be alot better than running exchange
[11:22] <herve> hi folks
[11:22] <mako> elmo: hoary
[11:22] <ogra> tseng, thats true :)
[11:22] <g14> ogra: outlook integration is what the suits want. 8 guys are writing openchange for a college thesis. No more exchange will beneift everyone
[11:23] <herve> g14, no, not MS ;-)
[11:23] <g14> herve: But honestly, who cares if MS doesn't benefit? It's not like they don't have a billion dollars or anything
[11:23] <robertj> btw, Evolution on win32 is coming along
[11:23] <elmo> mako: oh, err
[11:23] <g14> robertj: Really?
[11:24] <elmo> mako: my bad, fixed in next mirror pulse
[11:24] <robertj> novell is throwing money at it
[11:24] <robertj> Tor Lillqvist is on the case
[11:24] <mako> elmo: ok.. is it fixed in archive.u.c now?
[11:25] <g14> robertj: novell is throwing money at lots of great open source
[11:25] <mako> elmo: what happened?
[11:27] <elmo> mako: it got demoted in breezy, and I neglected to make hoary cope
[11:27] <elmo> mako: no, next pulse, i.e. ~30 mins
[11:28] <mako> elmo: awesome..
[11:32] <herve> yo seb128
[11:32] <seb128> lu
[11:43] <jp_> breezy is rockin :D
[11:43] <jp_> :)
[11:43] <jp_> :P
[11:47] <jp_> x is dead =)
[11:48] <jp_> /etc/X11/X is not executable :_)
[11:53] <jnc> excellent
[11:59] <justdave> does anyone know if anything changed at all in the default UserAgent string provided by Ubuntu's Firefox when the fixes from Firefox 1.0.4 were backported?
[12:01] <justdave> if anything changed at all, I could check for it to let Ubuntu people into addons.mozilla.org without having to hack their version number


[00:02] <qense> chrisccoulson: I got the flag to work! Thank you for your support1
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> qense - you're welcome :)
[03:12] <Nahsei> hello! maybe i shouldn't be here to take this kind of doubts, but people don't respond in #ubuntu-support or redirect me to some web pages that don't help me
[03:15] <Nahsei> i installed ubuntu9.10 and the sound worked well... then, after apt-get upgrade i lost sound... i thought it was because of the new kernel headers... i don't know if that's correct, but in fact sound started working again after i booted with previous version of linux kernel. then, after installing virtualbox the sound stopped working again..
[03:16] <Nahsei> i tried to purge virtualbox, reinstall pulseaudio, add myself to audio group, modprobe.... nothing worked
[03:17] <Nahsei> help
[03:18] <micahg> Nahsei: this channel is for packaging issues...please see #ubuntu-bugs to get help filing a bug or #ubuntu for support
[03:18] <Nahsei> ok
[03:19] <Nahsei> sorry... they simply don't answer me in #ubuntu -.-
[03:19] <Nahsei> i'll try in #ubuntu-bugs
[03:58] <micahg> if the old prerm script fails, does it try to look for a prerm script in the new package?
[04:02] <ChogyDan> micahg: Im not really in all this stuff, but I think the answer is in debian policy
[04:02] <micahg> thanks ChogyDan
[04:03] <ChogyDan> micahg: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
[04:03] <micahg> yep, I found it :)
[04:03] <ChogyDan> cool
[04:04] <micahg> what's the view of adding a prerm script to a transitiona package?
[04:18] <crimsun> seems really hackish
[04:18] <crimsun> what condition are you trying to enforce?
[04:21] <micahg> crimsun: flash seems to have issues upgrading from hardy -> lucid
[04:22] <crimsun> flashplugin-nonfree (not flashplugin-installer), I presume?
[04:22] <micahg> crimsun: right
[04:22] <crimsun> what's bailing, and where?
[04:22] <micahg> prerm
[04:22] <micahg> bug 518263
[04:24] <micahg> seems to be an old issue
[04:24] <micahg> bug 429841
[04:24] <crimsun> interesting.
[04:24] <crimsun> update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for iceape-flashplugin.
[04:25] <crimsun> update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for iceape-flashplugin.
[04:26] <crimsun> hmm, well, a couple approaches at least. You could add a prerm to flashplugin-nonfree, or you could get rid of flashplugin-nonfree altogether with C+R+P
[04:27] <crimsun> yeah, I remember that package being a beast
[04:27] <micahg> crimsun: you don't need the transitional package to provide the LTS -> LTS upgrade?
[04:29] <crimsun> micahg: you probably do, unfortunately
[04:29] <crimsun> that is indeed rather nasty. :(
[04:29] <micahg> crimsun: k, so I was thinking about adding the prerm script to the transitional package
[04:29] <micahg> crimsun: we had to add firefox-2 back to firefox for the LTS upgrade :(
[04:30] <crimsun> yeah, without forcing an rdep elsewhere you'll need to add one to the transitional package
[04:32] <micahg> crimsun: I'll talk to asac about it later...
[04:32] <micahg> thanks
[04:56] <mr_steve> Quick question; for a new package's changelog, what should the distribution be? lucid?
[05:02] <jmarsden> mr_steve: Yes.
[05:04] <mr_steve> jmarsden, thanks. I thought so, but suddenly lintian is giving me an error about it. It didn't the last time I built this package.. wierdness
[05:04] <jmarsden> mr_steve: What does the error say exactly, and what version of lintian are you running and where did it come from?
[05:07] <mr_steve> E: cnetworkmanager_0.21.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file lucid
[05:07] <mr_steve> lintian 2.2.17ubuntu1.1
[05:10] <jmarsden> If you are developing under Lucid, that would be very weird.  if you are runing Karmic you may want to use the backports version of lintian
[05:12] <mr_steve> jmarsden, that makes sense. I am still on karmic on this machine. I must just not have noticed that E: before.
[05:13] <jmarsden> Right, the Karmic lintian by definition doesn't know about lucid.  There's "always" a lintian version in backports within a few weeks of a reelase that "knows about" the next release...
[05:18] <mr_steve> good to know, thanks
[05:49] <micahg> jmarsden: no one did a karmic-backports upload of lintian
[05:49] <jmarsden> really?  Is it in karmic-proposed then??
[05:50] <micahg> jmarsden: nope
[05:51] <jmarsden> Hmmm.  I wonder what I did here... I don't remember grabbing the Lucid lintian sources and compiling them on Karmic... but maybe??!
[05:51] <mr_steve> I was wondering about that, because I checked and I definitely have backports enabled on my machine
[05:52] <micahg> bug 504512
[05:53] <fabrice_sp> micahg, are you doing Hardy -> Lucid upgrade tests? I found a bug in upgrading firefox, and wanted to confirm
[05:54] <micahg> fabrice_sp: yes
[05:54] <jmarsden> mr_steve: Well, you could grab it from the PPA of bdrung, or grab the sources and build it yourself, I guess... but I'm confused, I must have done the latter of those "in my sleep" or something!
[05:54] <micahg> the dupe is appropriate I believe
[05:54] <micahg> I need to add ff3.0 transitional packages to the package
[05:55] <fabrice_sp> micahg, did you had problem to upgrade firefox-3.0? I'm having bug 518282
[05:55] <micahg> fabrice_sp: I believe it's the same problem
[05:55] <fabrice_sp> ah ok
[05:55] <fabrice_sp> mine is easier: a missing Replace/Conflicts
[05:55] <micahg> I'm trying to finish up TB3 this weekend...
[05:56] <fabrice_sp> ok: I'll upload a 'temporary' fix to my ppa, then (my goal is to test another upgrade, not Firefox :-D )
[05:56] <micahg> fabrice_sp: it will do that also
[05:56] <micahg> fabrice_sp: we have transitional packages for everything else including firefox-2...somehow ff3 got overlooked
[05:57] <fabrice_sp> the strange part is that my chroot is brand new, installed yesterday, and it got firefox 3.0
[05:57] <micahg> fabrice_sp: in hardy?  that's normal
[05:57] <fabrice_sp> and not firefox 2.0 (by default, I mean)
[05:57] <micahg> FF3.6 won't be backported for a few months
[05:57] <micahg> fabrice_sp: FF3 was the default on hardy
[05:58] <fabrice_sp> oh: missed that in p.u.c
[06:04] <mr_steve> hmm. My cnetworkmanager package now refuses to build, because it's testsuite expects to have a running dbus system-bus. Should tests be run as part of a normal build?
[06:07] <RAOF> mr_steve: If they can be, they should be.  If they can't be, they should be disabled.
[06:08] <RAOF> It's much nicer to get a FTBFS message due to failing tests than to have bug reports because something you didn't test broke.
[06:09] <mr_steve> RAOF, got it. So if possible, I should patch out impossible tests and leave the rest?
[06:09] <RAOF> If they're still useful, probably.
[06:09] <RAOF> If the patch is easy and trivially correct.
[06:10] <RAOF> If it's too hard, just don't run the test suite.
[06:11] <mr_steve> Makes sense to me.
[06:42] <jdong> heh, bugmail elevation team is more like it.
[06:43] <RAOF> :)
[06:44] <israel> Okay, so I was installing pulseaudio's system wide equalizer and now I don't have sound for most everything...  The only program I found still sounded was Hydrogen.  Can someone help me please?
[06:45] <RAOF> Wrong channel - #ubuntu+1 & #pulseaudio if you're using Lucid, or #ubuntu & #pulseaudio if you're not.
[06:45] <israel> K, thanks.
[06:52] <CoryThompson> Hey, I was just wondering how you find a sponser to upload packages through?
[06:53] <micahg> CoryThompson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[06:54] <CoryThompson> ok thanks, And I guess I just find things to package/update and fix bugs through the launchpad group?
[06:54] <ScottK> jdong: It was created by someone who registered a LP account yesterday and is busy trying to join every single LP team.
[06:54] <micahg> CoryThompson: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/
[06:54] <jdong> heh
[06:55] <ScottK> jdong: He also made the mistake of making bug control an admin for the team, so I kicked him off his own team so he'd stop inviting other teams to join it.
[06:55] <jdong> *grins*
[06:58] <CoryThompson> micahg, Thanks heaps.... It seems very hard to get started but also very awarding
[09:08] <up_the_irons> I'm modifying an existing Ubuntu package to upload to my new PPA; should I overwrite the "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" field with my own info?  Add another "XSBC-Original-Maintainer"? or... ?  Don't want to strip the credit from the previous guy... ;)
[09:16] <fabrice_sp> up_the_irons, for a ppa package, I generally put myself as maintainer (to avoid motu's receiving false bugs)
[09:17] <up_the_irons> fabrice_sp: ah ok, thanks
[10:33] <Liquid-Silence> any developers awake here? :P
[10:36] <geser> !ask
[10:37] <Liquid-Silence> erm geser I dont really have a question but I do however want to start getting involved with the developement of ubuntu
[10:37] <geser> ah
[10:38] <Liquid-Silence> so I just want a developer that is working on ubutu atm to show me the ropes :)
[10:38] <geser> have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing already?
[10:38] <Liquid-Silence> yeah busy with that
[10:38] <Liquid-Silence> got launchpad setup etc...
[10:39] <geser> any specific questions?
[10:40] <Liquid-Silence> geser:  mind a pm?
[10:41] <geser> sure
[10:53] <coolbhavi> hello
[10:55] <coolbhavi>  my wifi range with nm is very small i have to keep the laptop near to the modem itself to get a signal detection and with wicd it worked fine but i upgraded my laptopand i m getting import gtk failed
[10:55] <coolbhavi> daemon is failing
[10:55] <coolbhavi> any help
[11:08] <Liquid-Silence> coolbhavi: #ubuntu
[11:11] <coolbhavi> even m not able to run wifi-radar http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m4759d891 Liquid-Silence even i asked #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1 and googled and searched the ubuntu forums
[11:11] <coolbhavi> no go so i came here
[11:15] <RAOF> Even if you haven't been getting help elsewhere, here still isn't the right place to get help.
[11:15] <coolbhavi> RAOF, sorry
[13:18] <Laney> what is this bug-elevation thing?
[13:22] <geser> Laney: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-February/030173.html and responses
[13:22] <Laney> geser: ah thanks, didn't see that earlier
[13:44] <angus> hello
[13:47] <angus> is anyone there
[13:48] <AnAnt> Hello, anyone knows why I get this email "Invitation to revu-uploaders declined by sistpoty" ?
[13:49] <AnAnt> from Bug Elevation Team
[13:52] <SevenMachines> AnAnt: see thread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-February/030173.html
[13:53] <AnAnt> ok
[13:53] <AnAnt> SevenMachines: thanks
[14:46] <phek> anyone know how i can get the metadata (from the DEBIAN/control file) on a package that's been built?
[14:56] <geser> dpkg-deb -i package.deb (or was it -I?)
[14:57] <randomaction> -I
[14:57] <SevenMachines> capital 'I'
[14:58] <phek> perfect, thanks
[15:29] <angus_> Hi i just wanted to ask what kind of things i should learn if i want to become a motu. I can program in a couple of languages but i dn't knw how to program a gui and i am stil learning c++. Any help or links to tutorials would be great
[15:30] <SevenMachines> angus_: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[15:31] <angus_> thx
[15:31] <SevenMachines> the 'so you want to be a motu' section has handy links, and the packaging guide is top notch
[15:32] <angus_> thx
[15:33] <angus_> is there anything in the wider area of programming (like gui etc) i should also learn first
[15:34] <SevenMachines> you can do an awful lot of work without knowing any programming
[15:35] <SevenMachines> though a motu will no more about what are handy skills to have
[15:35] <SevenMachines> s/no/know/ !
[15:35] <angus_> ok
[15:35] <angus_> i will look into that link
[15:35] <angus_> thx a lot
[16:09] <fuxar> hola
[16:20] <rgs_> guys, I have a webapp we developed at our office, we have it packaged for Fedora (.spec available and working). Any quick tips on how to generate an equivalent .deb for Ubuntu?
[16:39] <hakaishi> Hello everyone! Anyone up to advocate/review qt-shutdown-p? (all I need is one more advocate) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
[16:40] <hakaishi> ';.;'
[16:58] <Q-FUNK> hi! I need help with fixing my apport hook to attach a log file.
[17:04] <coolbhavi> hello i have a peculiar error: dscverify is showing verification failed even though i have imported the key
[17:12] <coolbhavi> here is the log
[17:12] <coolbhavi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/371063/
[17:12] <coolbhavi> any help pls
[17:16] <hakaishi> coolbhavi: okay, you seem to have recived the key, but you still need to import it (I think).
[17:18] <hakaishi> coolbhavi: check man gpg for details
[17:18] <coolbhavi> hakaishi, no i ve imported it.. is this a devscripts problem? I remember geser answering the same sort of query saying to add a line in .devscripts
[17:19] <hakaishi> coolbhavi: sorry, then I don't know (I'm not so familiar with this)
[17:19] <coolbhavi> hakaishi, no problems
[17:20] <coolbhavi> geser, please help me out
[17:59] <arand> I'm trying to figure out how the grub-pc package applies it's patches, I don't get it, there's nothing relevant in rules, !?
[18:00] <persia> arand: Try the what-patch program.  Alternately, take a look at the output of lsdiff -z on the diff.gz.
[18:01] <arand> ah, cdbs.. let's read some docs...
[18:01] <persia> cdbs doesn't necessarily tell enough.  Is simple-patchsys included?
[18:08] <arand> persia: I see nothing of that name in debian/ or debian/patches/ or rules
[18:09] <persia> Odd.  Pastebin the rules file?
[18:11] <arand> persia: http://pastebin.com/f1abcab72
[18:11] <geser> coolbhavi: by default does use your gpg keyring: dscverify --keyring ~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg aeskulap_0.2.2b1-5.dsc
[18:11] <arand> persia: oh, hang on it's there, sorry
[18:12] <persia> arand: Cool.  For simple-patchsys, use cdbs-edit-patch to add/change patches
[18:12] <geser> or add DSCVERIFY_KEYRINGS=~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg to your ~/.devscripts.conf
[18:12] <arand> persia: so I should just use cdbs-edit-patch for patching then? OK :)
[18:12] <coolbhavi> ah thanks geser
[18:42] <fabrice_sp> Hi segler
[18:42] <fabrice_sp> I saw randomaction advocated your package
[18:57] <fabrice_sp> !sponsoring > segler
[18:59] <randomaction> fabrice_sp: should I upload it, given that you advocated it previously?
[19:03] <persia> It's generally best to get two advocates on the same revision, although exceptions can be made if the differences are entirely trivial (just be sure to check the debdiff against the last advocated revision)
[19:07] <randomaction> that's what I thought
[19:07] <randomaction> aha, it's done already, thanks fabrice_sp :)
[19:11] <fabrice_sp> randomaction, you mean uploading the package? (my computer froze before)
[19:11] <randomaction> REVU entry should be archived now that the package is uploaded, right?
[19:12] <randomaction> fabrice_sp: I mean giving second advocation and uploading
[19:12] <fabrice_sp> ah, yes ;-)
[19:32] <highfiver> any developer resources on the net for ubuntu? i'm a total n00b
[19:33] <persia> highfiver: The wiki has a bunch.  Are you looking for something specific?
[19:40] <arand> I've added a patch to grub 2 using cdbs-edit-patch, but when I do the debdiff only the changelog change shows up? How come; how fix?
[19:41] <persia> arand: You ran cdbs-edit-patch, and exited properly, and your patch didn't appear in debian/patches?
[19:42] <arand> persia: it's there, but running "debdiff grub2_1.97~beta4-1ubuntu4.1.dsc grub2_1.97~beta4-1ubuntu4.2.dsc | less" Doesn't show anything bu the changelog edit..
[19:44] <persia> arand: And you reconstructed grub2_1.97~beta4-1ubuntu4.2.dsc after adding the patch to debian/patches?
[19:44] <randomaction> arand: rebuild the source package; make sure that you haven't overwritten *4.1.dsc
[19:44] <arand> yep, did the debuild -S
[19:45] <persia> Hrm.  Does the patch appear if you re-unpack the latest version?
[19:46] <randomaction> arand: if you did debuild after adding patch but before adding changelog entry, you have overwritten the first .dsc
[19:46] <arand> I've used pbuilder on that dsc and even confirmed that that patch changes get into the system when I install the finished packages
[19:47] <arand> randomaction: Ah! that might be it
[19:48] <persia> Yeah, that's the next step: re-download the original :)
[20:02] <oojah> Would any of you nice people consider taking a look at sqlite3-pcre on revu? It's a very simple package that is a loadable extension for sqlite3.
[20:22] <ideasman42> Hi there, Im preparing an upstream package
[20:22] <ideasman42> but I need to get the COPYING file made
[20:22] <ideasman42> the project has gplv2 code and creative commons media assets
[20:22] <ideasman42> no binary blobs
[20:22] <persia> You don't really need a COPYING file.
[20:22] <ideasman42> is there some example I could use as reference?
[20:23] <ideasman42> I was told I did if the media could not embed a license
[20:23] <persia> It really depends on the license.  Some licenses require this, others don't.
[20:23] <persia> It's best practice to include the complete text of all applicable licenses somewhere in the upstream tarball.
[20:23] <ideasman42> ok, but I was asked by ubuntu packagers for this
[20:23] <ideasman42> yes, I am the upstream :)
[20:24] <persia> Yes, but the person who asked you may have been mistaken :)
[20:24] <ideasman42> ok, well Im happy to comply even if they are being over zealous
[20:24] <persia> More particularly, I'd suggest putting a copy of the licenses under which you are distributing your materials in the tarball.  Just copy a text file.  I'd probably name them "GPL-2" and "CC-MA" (or whatever) to be clear.
[20:25] <persia> That way anyone downloading the tarball doesn't have to do anything special when they package it.
[20:25] <ideasman42> may as well include with the source, I dont mind
[20:25] <ideasman42> saves finding it each time
[20:25] <persia> That's the idea.
[20:26] <persia> We don't distribute these to end-users directly, because we have a known copy on the filesystem, but we do want to make sure we have the correct license from upstreams prior to packaging.
[20:26] <ideasman42> hrm. looked at supertux, they only have the GPL
[20:26] <persia> Not all upstreams are as careful as you, nor as willing to ask what we prefer :)
[20:26] <ideasman42> I was told no package unless I did this
[20:28] <ideasman42> Ill just invent a template :)
[20:29] <persia> No, just copy the upstream license files verbatim.
[20:29] <persia> When packaging, we need to check to make sure they match the licenses we have, or we need to distribute to end-users.
[20:29] <persia> If you copy the text directly from the license authors, we'll see no diff, and can save space on CDs, etc.
[20:30] <ideasman42> Ill paste what I have in a tic
[20:31] <persia> OK.  I'll just ask that you please don't combine the two licenses into a single COPYING file.
[20:31] <persia> Please feel free to refer the person requesting the COPYING file to me, and I'll make sure they understand.
[20:34] <rainct> What is that Bug Escalation Team thing?
[20:35] <persia> rainct: A mistake that folk are taking steps to fix
[20:35] <persia> Or maybe have already taken steps to fix
[20:35]  * persia is a little vague on the matter
[20:40] <ideasman42> here is the header of the COPYING file
[20:40] <ideasman42> http://www.pasteall.org/10850
[20:40] <ideasman42> the GPL stuff is all standard
[20:40] <ideasman42> but added a section regarding media
[20:40] <rainct> (Uhm, the X just magically restarted :S)
[20:41] <rainct> persia: I see, that's what I guessed it is :). Thanks for the info,
[20:41] <persia> ideasman42: That paste doesn't quite render for me.  The complete text of the GPL lies beneath the Preamble?
[20:42] <ideasman42> persia, yep
[20:43] <ideasman42> the exception for media is what I wanted to be varified
[20:43] <persia> Aha.  I understand then.
[20:44] <persia> OK.  I'd recommend you drop the text from the GPL from that, and add separate CC-MA and GPL-2 files (or whatever), with COPYING just providing the overview.
[20:44] <persia> Because, ideally, we'd like to be able to use diff to verify that the license under which you're distributing matches some license we've already provided to end-users, so we don't have to give them another copy.
[20:45] <ideasman42> Im confused
[20:45] <ideasman42> COPYING_CC-MA ?
[20:46] <ideasman42> would this be one file
[20:46] <persia> Sorry, I'll try to summaries everything all over again.
[20:46] <persia> So, we'd like to see the licenses under which you are distributing included in the tarball.  Since there are two, you probably want to differentiate by using names like GPL-2 and CC-MA.
[20:47] <ideasman42> so what would the file be?
[20:47] <ideasman42> "GPL-2" as a file name?
[20:47] <persia> If some of your files (e.g. the .blend files) are in a format that doesn't lend itself to comments or other licensing meta-data, it would be nice to describe how those files are licensed somehow.  You can do that in a COPYING file, if you like.
[20:47] <ideasman42> on the ticket I was asked to include a COPYING file
[20:47] <persia> Right.  Those are filenames.
[20:47] <persia> Yes, that's fine, and misguided.  Like I said, feel free to refer whoever asked that to me to be sorted.
[20:48] <persia> Or give me a URL to the ticket, and I'll sort it proactively.
[20:49] <ideasman42> persia, I got this mail
[20:49] <ideasman42> http://www.pasteall.org/10851
[20:50] <persia> I still can't parse much of that pastebin :/
[20:50] <persia> Who sent it?
[20:51] <ideasman42> Benjamin Drung
[20:51] <persia> bdrung seems to be offline right now, but I'll follow-up as soon as he returns.
[20:52] <ideasman42> persia, this is the ticket
[20:52] <ideasman42> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/311938
[20:52] <persia> Anyway, please put a copy of the licenses, each in separate files, in the tarball, and, if you have files that cannot declare their own license, indicate how they are licensed somewhere (README, COPYING, LICENSE, or whereever)
[20:54] <Laney> oojah: I added some comments (didn't build it though)
[20:55] <persia> ideasman42: I've commented in the LP bug, and will follow up with bdrung later.  Thanks for the pointer.
[20:56] <ideasman42> thanks
[20:56] <oojah> Laney: Thanks.
[21:01] <persia> ideasman42: Thanks a lot for asking here.  We really appreciate it when upstream developers are willing to modify their release process to match our preferences.
[21:04] <kamalmostafa> Hello MOTU's --  I would like to join the ~ubuntu-bugcontrol team, and I'm looking for an Ubuntu developer to vouch for my "ability to triage bug reports" as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl (the line "Requirement 4 can be waived ...").   If you are familiar with my work and feel inclined to vouch for me, please let me know.  :-)
[21:04] <ideasman42> persia, no worries, get the feeling this may take a couple of iterations
[21:06] <persia> kamalmostafa: I've seen a fair bit of your work, but believe you ought apply the regular way anyway.
[21:06] <persia> I'd be happy to endorse you for membership if you do that.
[21:06] <ideasman42> thanks for the help. Im off to bed
[21:06] <persia> Good night.
[21:10] <kamalmostafa> persia: By "the regular way", do you mean by supplying the list of 5 bugs that I've triaged?  The trouble there is that the majority of my work has been just fixing bugs outright -- virtually all of my work has gone from the FTBFS list straight through to"Fix Released" without ever really getting triaged.  So all of my commentary in the bugs consists of "I have fixed this bug and forwarded the patch upstream".
[21:13] <persia> kamalmostafa: Hrm.  That gets trickier.  I thought you'd also fixed some non-FTBFS stuff.
[21:14] <persia> To me, the point of the process is to demonstrate that one is able to work with reporters (if required), and demonstrate that one is able to understand issues and set the status corectly.
[21:14] <persia> If you're mostly chasing FTBFS, for what do you need bugcontrol?
[21:17] <kamalmostafa> persia: Oh, certainly I have fixed non-FTBFS bugs also -- but those too I'm just fixing without really triaging (or to say it a different way, I confirm it, fix it, and post the fix, without actually "triaging" it).    I'm interested getting bugcontrol specifically because I'm actively working on the Amateur Radio bugs and I'd like to be able to at least triage the ones that I don't fix on the spot.  (I am now an admin for the ~
[21:18] <mr_steve> For my latest upload of cnetworkmanager, REVU is telling me "Warning! This package could not be extracted; there's no browsable directory for it on REVU." What causes this?
[21:19] <geser> kamalmostafa: you got cut off after "(I am now an admin for the ~"
[21:19] <ScottK> mr_steve: Probably you didn't include the tarball in the upload.
[21:20] <ScottK> (lacking -sa when you built the source package)
[21:20] <kamalmostafa> persia: Your comment about demonstrating ability to work with reporters is well-taken.
[21:20] <kamalmostafa> geser: ooops...    (I am now an admin for the ~ubuntu-hams-devel team, and I want to fix or triage 100% of the bugs in our pile).
[21:21] <mr_steve> ScottK, I just checked that, I did use -sa, and there's a .orig.tar.gz in the list on REVU
[21:21] <ScottK> Odd.  No idea then.
[21:21] <persia> kamalmostafa: Just triage 5-7 of them, and get someone on #ubuntu-bugs to set the status/importance.  You'll get your list quick, and likely sail through the process.
[21:22] <mr_steve> Hmm. I also have a .debian.tar.gz, which I didn't have on the previous upload.
[21:23] <persia> I've only ever seen one person doing development work not get approved straight off with a list, and that was because they were unforgivably terse in their comments about bugfixes.  They reapplied a week later, and were approved.
[21:23] <kamalmostafa> persia: Yes, I can do that.  Do you mean that I should triage 5-7 arbitrary "new" bugs?  Or 5-7 bugs that I'm particularly interested in (i.e from the Amateur Radio packages)?  Or does it not matter?
[21:24] <persia> It's always easier (and more fun) to triage bugs that interest you :)
[21:25] <kamalmostafa> persia: Well that's the trouble!  It's even *more* fun to just fix 'em!  ;-)   Very good... Thanks for the advice -- I will spend a few cycles triaging.
[21:26] <persia> kamalmostafa: Well, no reason to stop fixing them if that's what you enjoy, but if you want to do a sweep of triage, and then a sweep of fix, just publish the results of your first triage sweep to the ML, and the second time you probably won't have to ask in #ubuntu-bugs whilst you do it.
[21:26] <mr_steve> having a .debain.tar.gz is part of using source format 3/quilt, right? Does REVU not know how to handle it?
[21:26] <kamalmostafa> persia: Understood.  Thanks again for the fine advice.
[21:27] <persia> kamalmostafa: Good luck, and thanks both for asking and for helping fix so many ftbfs bugs.
[21:30] <RAOF> mr_steve: Yeah, that's a source 3.0 thing; I don't know REVU's status on source-3.0, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had more bugs than 1.0 format :)
[21:31] <persia> Can someone reference a known clean format 3.0 package?  I'll check if REVU can deal.
[21:32] <mr_steve> Hmm. I might have misinterpreted the last comment on my package, I probably should have just added the quilt patch system and left source format alone
[21:33] <Laney> persia: quilt itself is
[21:33] <persia> Laney: Thanks.  Checking.
[21:34] <persia> Yeah.  REVU can't deal.  "dpkg-source: error: Unsupported format of .dsc file (3.0 (quilt))"
[21:35] <persia> If it doesn't already exist, someone could file a bug against REVU to request it.  Extra points for a patch.  Dunno how long it might take to roll out, and I know the machine can't be upgraded easily, but it may ease this sort of issue.
[21:36] <persia> mr_steve: Don't worry too much about it: the comments section still works, and folk should be downloading the package anyway, to an environment where it is supported.
[21:39] <mr_steve> persia, sounds good. I'll just leave it as is. Lintian on my system runs clean, so I assume the package is in good form.
[21:40] <persia> mr_steve: I'll recommend running both lintian -iIV and lintian --pedantic on both source.changes and ${arch}.changes.
[21:40] <persia> The way REVU runs lintian only exposes a subset of issues.
[21:41] <persia> Note that lintian isn't always right, but it's good to think about most of the issues it mentions.
[21:46] <ScottK> -E too
[21:47] <ScottK> persia: dpkg on Sparky doesn't support V3, so getting V3 support into REVU will be "non-trivial"
[21:47] <persia> decidedly :)
[21:47] <persia> I would think it would involve something like running dpkg in bind-mounted chroot or some such.
[21:49] <ScottK> Assuming there's a release with a dpkg that supports V3 and works with Sparc, yes.
[21:51] <mr_steve> aha, I forgot about some of those lintian options. *now* lintian runs clean, and I am a happy mr_steve.
[21:52] <persia> At least <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu1 built for sparc.  I don't have sufficient access to any sparc boxes to have any idea if it also works, but I presume it does, or the buildds would cry.
[22:15] <slicer> Hi. I'd like to see celt 0.7.1 in Lucid, but it won't reach testing before the 11th. It changes the soname, meaning all rdepends needs to be rebuilt, and that didn't happen in time. Do I need to wait for the LTS import freeze to pass, or can I just go ahead and request a sync now?
[22:17] <persia> slicer: Well, you could request a sync from unstable if you like.  Are you prepared to rebuild all the rdepends?
[22:18] <slicer> persia: I did so in unstable already; the only "problematic" one is libopal, which currently FTBFS on HPPA, but Lucid already merged that one :) And since libopal's change is to remove the dependency on libcelt, that's not a problem at all.
[22:19] <persia> And we don't have to care about hppa anymore either :)
[22:19] <persia> If you're completely on top of this, just go ahead.
[22:19] <slicer> persia: Rgr that.
[23:14] <lfaraone> Should packages be completely lintian-clean to be advocated in REVU?
[23:17] <Legendario> there is a package on debian which I would like to see on ubuntu? Do I have to open a bug request? Should I send it to revu?
[23:19] <lfaraone> Legendario: once it's in Debian testing, it'll be automagically synced to Ubuntu, usually. What's the package?
[23:20] <Legendario> lfaraone, I guess it's only on sid yet. Thanks
[23:21] <lfaraone> Legendario: keep in mind Debian Import Freeze is Feb 11. After that date you'll need to file a sync request in launchpad, and get it ACK'ed by MOTU.
[23:21] <lfaraone> Legendario: and if that doesn't happen by Feb 18, you'll have to wait for lucid+1.
[23:24] <Legendario> lfaraone, I have a doubt on how ubuntu revision number works. If the package is 8.3-2 on both debian and ubuntu and I want to update it to 8.10, what should be the new number: 8.10-0ubuntu1?
[23:24] <lfaraone> Legendario: if you're uploading the package only to ubuntu, yes.
[23:24] <lfaraone> Legendario: otherwise it'd be 8.10-1.
[23:25] <lfaraone> Legendario: the 0ubuntu1 indicates it was based of "Debian revision zero"; in other words, it was built ubuntu-only
[23:25] <lfaraone> *off of
[23:26] <Legendario> lfaraone, yes. It's only to ubuntu so far: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/funcoeszz/+bug/518572
[23:27] <Legendario> lfaraone, is everything ok with the bug report? That's the first time I try to update a program
[23:29] <lfaraone> Legendario: for a new upstream version, you attach the new orig.tar.gz file and the diff.gz, not a debdiff.
[23:29] <lfaraone> Legendario: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess , esp https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
[23:32] <Legendario> lfaraone, thanks. I'll take a look at those
[23:32] <ari-tczew>
[23:32] <ari-tczew> Next MOTU Council Meeting (details)
[23:32] <ari-tczew>
[23:32] <ari-tczew> Thursday, 28th January 2010, 17:00 UTC
[23:32] <ari-tczew> wtf?
[23:32] <lfaraone> Legendario: finally, you don't assign the bug to ubuntu-universe-sponsors, you subscribe them. I've fixed it for oyu.
[23:33] <ari-tczew> when is going to next MOTU meeting?
[23:33] <persia> ari-tczew: MOTU Meetings are scheduled on an ad-hoc basis, when there is something for discussion.
[23:34] <persia> So, if you have something that ought be discussed at a MOTU Meeting, raise it on the mailing list, and set a time for the meeting.
[23:34] <persia> But there doesn't tend to be much that requires a meeting: why do you ask?
[23:34] <lfaraone> persia: I'm giving Legendario correct advice, right? :)
[23:34] <ari-tczew> persia: I want to join Universe Contributors
[23:34] <persia> lfaraone: I don't see anything obviously wrong, but I'm not shadowing you carefully :)
[23:35] <persia> ari-tczew: Don't need a MOTU Meeting for that.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[23:36] <lfaraone> persia: I haven't been following the archive reorg. Are MOTU and Ubuntu Universe Contributors the same?
[23:36] <persia> No.
[23:37] <persia> "Ubuntu Universe Contributors" is an incredibly misnamed group that represents Contributing Developers, who are those people who gain membership through their work in Development.
[23:37] <persia> Personally, I think it ought just be abolished, and we ought let the DMB grant Ubuntu Membership directly, but I'm not currently in a mood to make noise to push that agenda.
[23:38] <ari-tczew> persia: so do I have to use mailing list?
[23:38] <persia> ari-tczew: Which mailing list?
[23:38] <ari-tczew> Send an announcement of your application to the devel-permissions mailing list
[23:39] <lfaraone> ari-tczew: no, you should follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
[23:39] <persia> Oh, yes.  You need to make sure your wiki page is in decent shape, write up the application wiki page, get some endorsements, and send a mail to that list.
[23:39] <lfaraone> scratch that, read the page, you're right, ari-tczew.
[23:39] <persia> lfaraone: That's the place that has that instruction :)
[23:39] <Legendario> lfaraone, thanks.
[23:39]  * persia just wrote that 6 weeks ago, and it fairly confident :)
[23:40] <lfaraone> Legendario: any time. make checks out to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>;)
[23:40] <ari-tczew> persia: can I get other login for @ubuntu.com instead my LP login?
[23:40]  * persia notes that Ubuntu usually isn't quite that commercial :)
[23:41] <persia> Um, it's tricky, but yes.  You probably want to contact #canonical-sysadmins (or whichever is that channel), and ask how to arrange that sort of thing.
[23:41] <lfaraone> persia: if I maintain a package in Debian, and want to also be associated with it in Ubuntu, is there anything I should put in my control file?
[23:42] <persia> lfaraone: Not especially, no.  In Ubuntu, we don't have maintainers, but expect that those in the changelog are most likely good contacts for those with questions.  As long as you're an active maintainer in Debian, you're likely to end up being such a person :)
[23:43] <persia> If you're like me, and upload to Debian less than once a year, you might not be, but in that case, either your package is sleepy, or you aren't such a good maintainer.
[23:43] <lfaraone> persia: mk. people just keep complaining when I upload packages and don't change the maintainer field :P
[23:43] <azeem> hi
[23:43] <lfaraone> persia: (which is technically allowed, as long as the maintainer field contains an @ubuntu email)
[23:43] <Legendario> lfaraone, what do you mean by "make checks out"? do you want me to send u updates on that?
[23:43] <Legendario> lfaraone, sorry for my english...
[23:43] <azeem> did "00:36  * bremner learns from an Ubuntu user that he is the maintainer of syncevolution in Ubuntu." got discussed already?
[23:44] <lfaraone> Legendario: I was kidding. As in "write a cheque" for payment.
[23:44] <persia> lfaraone: You don't have to change it, but we encourage the change to reinforce the idea that there aren't any maintainers in Ubuntu.
[23:45] <azeem> some packages seem to no longer have "MOTU" as maintainer on the Launchpad page, but the Original-Maintainer
[23:45] <Legendario> lfaraone, haha. Ok. I'll send you soon. ;-)
[23:47] <persia> azeem: Does the package have Ubuntu variation?
[23:48] <azeem> no
[23:48] <azeem> was it always like this?
[23:48] <persia> Well then, the "Maintainer" line in the source package is still the same as it was in Debian.
[23:48] <persia> It was always like this.
[23:48] <azeem>  Version: 0.9.1+ds1-1
[23:48] <persia> The binary packages have the correct information (thanks to pkgbinarymangler)
[23:49] <azeem> euh
[23:49] <azeem> I hope this is considered a bug?
[23:49] <persia> Launchpad seems to think "Maintainer" means something in the context of Ubuntu.  I'm fairly sure it doesn't, but I tend to reserve complaints about Launchpad to things I think I can get fixed.
[23:49] <persia> No idea.  Check the LP bug list.
[23:50] <azeem> is there even a binary package if there is only one?
[23:50] <Legendario> lfaraone, can you give me just one more help? I can't create the new 8.10 diff.gz file
[23:50] <persia> Personally, I'd prefer LP didn't even try to claim someone was the maintainer, but there may be alternate solutions.
[23:50] <Legendario> don't know why...
[23:50] <persia> azeem: Yes.  binary packages are the result of building soruce packages.  The "binary" package might only contain text.
[23:51] <azeem> persia: eh
[23:51] <azeem> I meant: "is there even a binary package *page* if there is only one?"
[23:51] <azeem> because I don't see any obvious links off the source page
[23:51] <persia> launchpad navigation is another rich source of potential bugs :)
[23:53] <azeem> if I search for something on launchpad.net/ubuntu, I only get source packages back
[23:53] <azeem> plus a /list/ of binary packages without links
[23:53] <azeem> no wonder users mail DDs privately about those packages
[23:53] <persia> Indeed.
[23:55] <geser> LP has also pages for binary packages but they are harder to find
[23:55] <persia> The LP source is open, so it's potentially possible to submit patches.  Alternately, you might try having a discussion about usability with the LP devs.  I'd recommend waiting some hours though, to have the best chance of catching them active.
[23:55] <azeem> it's a Ubuntu problem, not a LP one
[23:56] <persia> But not one we can fix, other than by not using LP, and we're unlikely to do that, as we don't have any other sponsored infrastructure handily available.
[23:56] <persia> s/can/can't/
[23:56] <azeem> right, I understand :)
[23:56] <Legendario> lfaraone, or should I send the old diff.gz?
[23:56] <azeem> persia: it's a PR disaster with the Canonical-hating DDs though
[23:57] <persia> azeem: Understood, but it's just not something that can be solved here.  You can file bugs or patches, or talk to the LP devs (of which only a small subset are in this channel, and not likely paying close attention)
[23:58] <azeem> right
[23:58] <lfaraone> Legendario: sorry, I was at dinner.
[23:59] <Legendario> lfaraone, ok.
[23:59] <Legendario> lfaraone, I followed the guides but the new version's diff.gz was not created. I wonder why.
[23:59] <lfaraone> Legendario: when you build a package, in the directory above the directory that contains the "debian" folder there should be a .diff.gz and a orig.tar.gz


[00:08] <cjwatson> james_w: horrible little gotcha, isn't it
[00:08] <james_w> yeah
[00:09] <cjwatson> I was ... unimpressed when that caused several people's disks to be eaten
[00:13] <ion> URL?
[00:14] <james_w> ion: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2009/07/02#2009-07-02-python-sigpipe
[00:14] <ion> Thanks
[00:16] <ion> Exactly what caused people’s disks to be eaten?
[00:20] <james_w> ion: see the bug report
[00:21] <cjwatson> ion: subprocesses that were doing partitioning and expecting to receive commands on stdin and send responses on stdout got rather confused when stdin/stdout went away
[00:21] <cjwatson> and carried on merrily doing something random when ordinarily they would have received SIGPIPE
[00:22] <ion> Heh
[00:22] <james_w> what's the term for that phenomenon where you hear about something for the first time and then for a while after you find that you keep hearing about the same thing where you never noticed it before
[00:22] <cjwatson> (I forget the exact details, mercifully, but that's fairly accurate as summaries go)
[00:22] <james_w> ?
[00:23] <james_w> it seems like this sort of bug should have a name
[00:24] <cjwatson> that sounds like a species of confirmation bias although it isn't quite the same thing ...
[00:25] <james_w> I seem to remember my neuroscientist friend saying that it had be studied and named
[00:25] <james_w> like the "cocktail party phenomenon"
[00:26] <cjwatson> I'm looking through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases but can't see it; I'm entirely prepared to believe it has a name though and I just can't find it :)
[00:28] <Ng> james_w: I think star wars summed it up better than so-called neuroscientists... "your focus determines your reality" ;)
[00:37] <Ng> james_w: http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=417
[00:40] <nellery> that's probably it
[00:40] <nellery> wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baader-Meinhof_phenomenon
[02:40] <radix> I'm testing an upgrade to karmic and it's failing because of a dependency problem between various packages, and I can't figure out which package is at fault by reading apt.log
[02:40] <radix> though the package that the upgrade tool is reporting as being unable to be installed is ubuntu-desktop
[02:42] <radix> I'd like to file a bug, I just don't know where it should be filed
[02:47] <radix> oh, I see stuff related to fast-user-switch applet and I see a change from pitti about FUSA dependencies on ubuntu-desktop recently. guess it's related.
[03:07] <wgrant> radix: The new gdm breaks fusa. Remove fusa if you don't need it, or keep gdm 2.20.
[03:08] <radix> wgrant: okay. is there already a bug filed about that? would filing one be valuable?
[03:08] <radix> I just removed fusa and that removed ubuntu-desktop and UNR but the upgrade now seems to be working.
[03:10] <wgrant> radix: It's known. It's even mentioned in the gdm changelog.
[03:11] <radix> okay, cool.
[04:09] <reduz> hi guys, i'm here just to ask how in your right minds did you allow pulseaudio in ubuntu
[04:10] <reduz> keeps crashing randomly since a few versions, never been stable, and likes to use 20% cpu when opening sound with bufers < 1024 frames
[04:12] <reduz> also
[04:12] <reduz> removing it causes sound to no longer work
[04:24] <slangasek> mathiaz: hrm, you want a separate package just for this?  not sure why /that/ makes sense.
[06:52] <emgent> someone up with intrepid ?
[11:10] <ogra> bah, where is Keybuks plenary talk on bootspeed http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/karmic/ doesnt have any plenary_4 videos :(
[11:16] <tgpraveen> actually many videos seem to be missing
[11:22] <ogra> tgpraveen, only plenary_4 o far (others are not supposed to be up yet)
[11:23] <ogra> (others than plenary ones)
[11:47]  * ogra wonders why xscreensaver resolves "gnome-session | xterm | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator" wrongly on the armel buildd ...
[11:48] <ogra> somehow that tries to install gnome-session ... which fails on xserver-xorg
[11:50] <ogra> hmm, it uses gnome-session on x86 too ... weird
[12:31] <ogra> lamont, infinity, can it be that the armel buildd chroot doesnt use --no-install-recommends while the others do ?
[13:03] <ogra> pitti, poke ...
[13:05] <ogra> pitti, could the check for chroots in the hal initscript be moved to the reload action as well ? seems xserver-xorg deliberately calls reload from postinst now which makes installation in the armel builds fail (which in turn causes an FTBFS in xscreensaver)
[16:09] <ion> liw: Hi. Any benchmark results yet? :-)
[16:14] <maxb> doko: Hi, Vcs-Bzr in python2.6 points to a nonexistent branch in your namespace, can you tell me where to find the actual branch?
[16:42] <maxb> jinja2 needs promotion to main in order to satisfy sphinx depwait, what do I do to report that?
[16:46] <Ampelbein> maxb: follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
[16:47] <geser> bug 382692
[16:47] <geser> maxb: ^^
[18:55] <netsurf3> what boot system does jaunty use? initrd or initramfs?
[19:02] <Nafallo> netsurf3: this is a develop channel. for support, please see #ubuntu
[19:02] <netsurf3> i thought it was relevant
[19:02] <netsurf3> nevermind
[19:58] <nixternal> anyone have karmic rocking on a dell mini?
[20:01] <nixternal> ooh, nomodeset does it :)


[06:22] <Kilos> morning africa
[19:35] <melodie> hello ubuntiste-msakni
[19:45] <ubuntiste-msakni> Hey melodie :) How are you?
[19:45] <melodie> hello ubuntiste-msakni fine, and you?
[20:14] <melodie> welcome back ubuntiste-msakni
[20:15] <ubuntiste-msakni> x) :D
[20:16] <ubuntiste-msakni> thx :)
[20:21] <melodie> you didn't answer
[20:21] <melodie> are you fine too?
[20:27] <ubuntiste-msakni> Yeah am ok :) Thanks :)
[20:28] <ubuntiste-msakni> Just some work, some exams and it starts to be hot in here x)
[20:30] <melodie> I can believe so, how hot?
[20:31] <melodie> ubuntiste-msakni I'll tell you about a new professional social network within a few days
[20:31] <melodie> which might interest you
[20:31] <ubuntiste-msakni> Cool melodie :) I'll wait for it :)
[20:32] <melodie> :)
[20:33] <melodie> for now it's mainly in French, but the members are welcome to ask questions and answer in other languages too (though I wonder how this part will get organized)
[20:33] <melodie> fortunately you are fluent in French, so it should not be much of a problem
[20:55] <ubuntiste-msakni> Good :)
[20:56] <melodie> it's stormy now here, we have had a hot day, but not excessive heat
[20:56] <melodie> it has been nice
[20:59] <ubuntiste-msakni> Today I had a French exam.. I waited 30 min for my mind to switch back from English to French.. The teacher was looking at me all that time.. I bet he thought that I was trying to cheat x(
[21:06] <melodie> ubuntiste-msakni is that because of the hot weather?
[21:08] <ubuntiste-msakni> That's because I didn't write or had "real" discussions in French for many years.. x(
[21:14] <melodie> ubuntiste-msakni nous pourrions arranger cela
[21:15] <ubuntiste-msakni> melodie, lorsque j'écrit
[21:15] <ubuntiste-msakni> j'écris*
[21:15] <melodie> j'ai des discussions en français et en anglais sur les chans presque tous les jours et je passe d'un canal à l'autre en permanence
[21:15] <melodie> oui
[21:15] <ubuntiste-msakni> ou je parle en français j'ai toujours l'impression que tout est faux x=
[21:15] <melodie> je ne vois pas pourquoi
[21:15] <ubuntiste-msakni> Moi non plus x)
[21:15] <melodie> tu es très à l'aise en français
[21:17] <ubuntiste-msakni> Merci :)
[21:18] <melodie> je t'en prie, pas de souci
[22:19] <melodie> bonne nuit
[22:40]  * elacheche_anis GTG.. It's bed time.. GN guys :)


[10:18] <mup> Bug #1464989 changed: MAAS fails to install on UEFI NUC with curtin bcache error <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464989>
[15:04] <mup> Bug #1467119 opened: MAAS does not factor in BMC addresses to address availability <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1467119>
[15:04] <mup> Bug #1467120 opened: MAAS should consider device addresses as used <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1467120>


[16:16] <locodir-user> Hello sir
[16:16] <zaki> hi
[16:16] <locodir-user> I need a unbutu os
[16:17] <locodir-user> Iam from coimbatore
[16:17] <zaki> oky. you can download
[16:17] <locodir-user> Where can I get
[16:18] <zaki> what is your pc configuration?
[16:21] <zaki> hello locodir-user


[21:02] <james_w> hi everyone
[21:02] <james_w> who's here for my session?
[21:04] <james_w> anyone know if we can turn off +m in here?
[21:08] <mhall119> woops, I don't think that was right
[21:09] <james_w> thanks, that's better
[21:09] <james_w> everyone is free to talk in here, I think a Q&A doesn't need to be split over two channels
[21:09] <mhall119> no, I don't think it is
[21:10] <w1ngnut> better for me too
[21:10] <mhall119> oh, ok, maybe I did do it right
[21:11] <mhall119> just saw a bunch of messages I wasn't expecting
[21:12] <mhall119> anyway, carry on
[21:12] <james_w> thanks mhall119
[21:13] <james_w> ok, let's try again
[21:13] <james_w> who's here for the session?
[21:13] <james_w> and tell me if you know anything about the topic at all, so that I know where to begin
[21:14] <w1ngnut> james_w: I'm here for the session. I know what I've read on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
[21:15] <james_w> that's a good start
[21:15] <james_w> w1ngnut: is there anything in particular you would like to ask about?
[21:16] <w1ngnut> james_w: no, just do whatever you have in mind. I have experience with development tools and vcs but never applied any of these knowledge's using ubuntu tools.
[21:18] <james_w> ok
[21:18] <james_w> well, as you will have read, UDD is an effort to bring the power of version control and advanced development tools to Ubuntu development
[21:19] <james_w> the aim is to make Ubuntu development more efficient, easier to learn, and less frustrating
[21:19] <james_w> that's a large undertaking, and we can't do it all at once though
[21:20] <james_w> so the focus so far has been on making it possible to use version control to do packaging work, and abstract away a lot of the tools that you used to have to learn to do packaging on Debian/Ubuntu
[21:20] <james_w> this was mainly in the form of a tool called bzr-builddeb that is a bzr plugin that knows about packages, and provides several commands to do packaging in bzr
[21:21] <james_w> built on top of this is a service that imports all of Debian and Ubuntu's source packages in to bzr
[21:21] <james_w> this allows you to work on any package in Ubuntu using bzr, rather than exclusively the traditional tools, or whatever VCS someone decided to use for that package
[21:22] <james_w> so, if you want to patch a package, or work on a new upstream version, or just look at the code, you can start with "bzr branch lp:ubuntu/<source package>"
[21:22] <james_w> e.g. bzr branch lp:ubuntu/bzr-builddeb for the bzr-builddeb package itself
[21:23] <james_w> or you can do lp:debian/*
[21:23] <james_w> and other releases are available too, e.g. lp:ubuntu/lucid/* and lp:debian/lenny/*
[21:24] <james_w> (note that lp:debian/* won't actually branch the whole of Debian)
[21:24] <james_w> there is more documentation on how to do this at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
[21:25] <james_w> and we would love some help in improving what is there, and providing how-tos for specific tasks
[21:25] <james_w> now that we have all of that in place we are also starting to work on projects that build on top of it, such as recipes in Launchpad
[21:26] <james_w> a Launchpad recipe is a way of specifying how to merge some bzr branches together and building a package out of the result
[21:27] <james_w> this can be as simple as specifying lp:ubuntu/something to build the latest in Ubuntu, but where it gets really interesting is when you merge branches together
[21:27] <james_w> for instance you could merge the trunk branch of a project with the packaging in order to build the code that the developers of that project wrote today
[21:28] <james_w> and Launchpad allows you to schedule the builds to happen once a day, so that you can always have the latest code running on your machine
[21:29] <james_w> this is useful for developers, but also makes it much easier for people to get involved in testing and bug reporting
[21:29] <james_w> plus, it can be useful for triagers too, as they can point to one of these and ask people to test with that, so that they can know the bug still exists in the latest code
[21:30] <james_w> this feature is just starting to become available in Launchpad, and we don't know all of the useful things that could be done with it, so we're interested in ideas you have for what you would like to do with this
[21:30] <james_w> any questions?
[21:38] <james_w> this is supposed to be a Q&A :-)
[21:45] <james_w> ok, if no-one has any questions then I guess we'll wrap up
[21:45] <james_w> Feel free to ask me questions at other times though
[21:45] <james_w> I'm usually around on IRC during the week


[14:16] <AppAraat[m]> hi, I plugged in my DAC (Chord Mojo) and started JACK, but I can't control the volume of it by software. Either using `alsamixer` or `pavucontrol`. This is log output when I plugged it in: https://paste.debian.net/1120654/
[14:17] <AppAraat[m]> (so only hardware volume controls work which are the buttons on the device itself)
[18:14] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: Many USB (and perhaps other) devices do not have any software controls.
[18:19] <AppAraat[m]> oh, hmm. Yeah someone recommended me to get a mixer somewhere in between JACK and ALSA. I'll have to look at how I can control it from the CLI so I can map those controls to my i3wm keybindings.
[18:22] <OvenWerks> Ya, one of us needs to make such a mixer :)
[18:22] <OvenWerks> There is jack mixer
[18:23] <OvenWerks> but it is not cl controlable... so it would take a cli to jack midi to control it :P
[18:25] <OvenWerks> jackminimix is osc controlable which may be easier as the ocs commands can be send from command line using oscsend
[18:32] <AppAraat[m]> oh, interesting, interesting.  I did, didn't I? :p
[18:36] <OvenWerks> Thats ok... it has been the same with making a jack output volume control... it will probably not get done anytime soon :)  For similar reasons
[18:36] <OvenWerks> Thinking about it, a commandline interface is not that easy.
[18:37] <OvenWerks> Something like osc control or dbus control really does make the most sense for that
[18:39] <OvenWerks>  a wraper that is easier to use would be ok, something that just takes a value like 50 or +1 or something would be about right
[18:39] <OvenWerks> but that still leaves the user with making their connetions manually to the mixer rather than the system outputs (which many apps do for you)
[18:40] <OvenWerks> so it would be a disconnect and reconnect thing by hand.
[18:41] <OvenWerks> A better way would be to change the alsa backend to include a volume control.
[18:44] <AppAraat[m]> >so it would be a disconnect and reconnect thing by hand.
[18:44] <AppAraat[m]> It's possible to save JACK sessions, right? Is that not something that can be done somewhat automatically?
[18:45] <OvenWerks> jack-plumbing might do that too.
[18:46] <AppAraat[m]> JACK has so...much...options :S
[19:00]  * OvenWerks thinks options are good.
[19:03] <corshmock> Hi OvenWerks
[19:04] <corshmock> I've been trying to follow your model of installing different distros instead of vms.  Unfortunately, I haven't been having much luck :(
[19:08] <OvenWerks> So are you going to tell me why? where you had trouble?
[19:10] <OvenWerks> So far I have found it easier to test thing with more than one partition than with a VM... but then I have been doing it this way for so long (since the 90s) that I have had no reason to even try VMs
[19:15] <corshmock> I start with ubuntu, create a partition for centos.  I go to install centos and I can't select the partition, so I wipe ubuntu.  I've tried it the other way round and I wipe centos.
[19:16] <OvenWerks> when installing ubuntu you need to choose the something else option
[19:17] <OvenWerks> so install centos first (though I am sure it has anoption to install alongside another os) and then you can choose what aprtition ubuntu is installed on.
[19:18] <AppAraat[m]> what is that model of installing distros?
[19:18] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: ??? I don't understand the question
[19:19] <AppAraat[m]> corshmock said: "I've been trying to follow your model of installing different distros instead of vms"
[19:19]  * OvenWerks wanders off to be with his wife for a bit
[19:19] <AppAraat[m]> \o
[19:20] <corshmock> centos doesn't seem to ubuntu and likewise ubuntu doesn't seem to see centos.  I've gone for the something else option.  Can't see a way to do it.
[19:21] <corshmock> AppAraat[m]: OvenWerks is able to install different distros alongside each other
[19:21] <AppAraat[m]> oh, like dual booting?
[19:22] <corshmock> AppAraat[m]: correct!  Or more like multi booting
[19:22] <AppAraat[m]> if so, then do note that choosing to encrypt (home folders) will make things a bit difficult.
[19:22] <corshmock> I could do it no problem installing linux along side a windows installation
[19:23] <corshmock> No encryption involved
[19:25] <AppAraat[m]> hmm, you could start with a full disk for ubuntu, then when installing centos choose "install alongside ubuntu" and then resize it there in the installer?
[19:34] <corshmock> No such option AppAraat[m]
[19:35] <corshmock> They will see a windows install but not another Linux install for some reason
[19:35] <AppAraat[m]> is GRUB installed on there?
[19:35] <corshmock> No sign of grub
[19:36] <corshmock> I think I'm going to have to go with vms
[19:37] <AppAraat[m]> when you install a linux distro it always asks you if you want to install grub, it's a smart choice to do so. Could be it. Then again I haven't really bothered with dual booting myself.
[19:40] <corshmock> If I saw an option to install grub I would certainly have selected it.  I've spent more time lately installing Linux.  I really don't believe grub has been an option.  I don't like the idea of installing vms on my Ubuntu install.  I wish OvenWerks could remote onto my laptop and install what I need :)


[16:27] <h00k> I killed the topic in #u-o
[16:27] <h00k> anyone have a backup?
[16:29] <h00k> fixed 'er right up