[01:45] <persia> ogra: I think having a consistent /dev/touchscreen is an excellent idea, but I think that it ought be achieved by udev rules, rather than a script using ln -s.
[01:46] <persia> If you look at the Q1U config, it has a udev rule that matches the specific model: perhaps this could be expanded to support a wider variety of touchscreens.
[01:46] <persia> Err.  /dev/input/touchscreen
[01:46] <ogra> well, i discussed the idea with Keybuk and bryce ... and they convinced me to rather try to get it properly into hal
[01:47] <ogra> so the whole config can be handled there and is dynamic
[01:47] <ogra> my attempt was a bit shortsighted and only actually targets the current situation ... which will not be the intrpid situation
[01:48] <persia> ogra: Hmm.  That is better, and yes, doesn't work without the new xinput2 stuff.
[01:48] <ogra> it would be a good solution for hardy though with your point to use udev it would even be better
[01:49] <persia> In the Q1U images, we do use udev, just with a very tight udev rule matching only one device.
[01:49] <ogra> but i will take a deep look into hal-input i think ... as soon as time permits
[01:49] <persia> Yeah, I've been meaning to do that as well.  It is the future.
[01:49] <ogra> we can use udev to trigger hal
[01:50] <persia> Well, do we want /dev/input/touchscreen for legacy purposes?  If not, we can just trigger hal when adding any input device, and let hal-input sort it out
[01:50] <ogra> right
[01:50] <ogra> dev wont matter in the hal case
[01:50] <ogra> v/dev i mean
[01:50] <persia> The only case where one wouldn't want that is for MIDI, as the programming for MIDI is currently too different to handle generally.
[01:51] <ogra> depends, i guess even that can be made workable by hal
[01:51]  * persia was looking at indamixx press recently
[01:52] <persia> Not for intrepid.  For later, maybe.
[02:04] <ogra> btw, do you know the reason why Mouse0 in the config isnt using /dev/input/mice as it should be, but /dev/input/mouseX ?
[02:04] <ogra> using mice here makes all additionally attached pointing devices work as well ... (i.e. the trackball of my wreless kbd and my usb mouse)
[02:05] <persia> No idea at all.  That was frustrating to me, as it required adjustment to work on my hardware (or else only the touchpad worked, not the joystick or the touchscreen)
[02:05] <ogra> right
[02:05] <ogra> with /dev/input/mice all works equally fine
[02:05] <ogra> i wonder if we can get that as fix in
[02:06] <ogra> we'll likely need to re-roll an updated image for the speedup stuff i guess
[02:10] <persia> Do you think /dev/input/mice is SRU-worthy?
[02:10] <ogra> not sure, i'd like to hear other opinions and hear from testers first
[02:11] <ogra> it might just work because of the module order i used for loading them
[02:14] <ogra> (which indeed would indicate a worse bug in udev/modprobe somewhere)
[02:15] <persia> Why?  /dev/input/eventx is populated in module loading order with increasing X.  The same is true to a lesser degree for /dev/input/mouseX and /dev/input/jsX (why don't we support multiple keyboards like that).
[02:16] <persia> Well, not module loading order exactly, but hardware plug event order, which is strongly influenced by module loading order
[02:16] <ogra> i guess because we dont have a /dev/kbd
[02:17] <ogra> hmm
[02:17] <ogra> we do
[02:17] <persia> Well, it has been there in the past.  Just more confusion because X has it's own keyboard drivers (which is frustrating when one has an interesting keyboard-like device)
[02:17] <ogra> and i assume thats exactly what hal-input will do
[02:18] <ogra> my leyboard is /dev/input/event1 here
[02:18] <ogra> *keyboard
[02:18] <persia> Well, some of that.  There's still differences with the console, as it doesn't tend to use hal-input.
[02:18] <ogra> it should then :)
[02:18] <persia> Have you looked at the input-utils package?  I find it very useful when looking at input stuff.
[02:19] <persia> Should a VC really depend on a running HAL?  That's an interesting direction.
[02:19] <ogra> no, i just dug around in hal-device-manager
[02:19] <ogra> err
[02:19] <ogra> gnome-device-manager
[02:19] <ogra> ... was renamed
[02:19] <persia> Ah.  Install it: `lsinput` is a much simpler interface :)
[02:20] <persia> MInd you, input-utils seems to need more root access than one would expect, but ...
[02:20] <ogra> i think hal should as abstraction layer indeed handle all HW at some point
[02:21] <ogra> and afaik devicekit is trying to solve that
[02:21] <persia> Mind you, `cat /proc/bus/input/devices can be similarly informative.
[02:23] <persia> Yeah: having a central abstraction layer would be nice.  With a bit of extension, it ought be able to handle 漢字 entry cleanly in the console as well.
[02:23] <ogra> well, thats what hal reads
[02:23] <ogra> not /proc but the equivalent in sysfs
[02:24] <ogra> and /proc is suposed to vanish since linux 2.6.0 was released
[02:25] <CShadowRun> Is there any devices that actually run ubuntu mobile nicely, and are released?
[02:25] <CShadowRun> and ubuntu mobile is linux, so i can use most of my stuff i run on my pc on the mobile device (Providing it's not too resource intensive obviously)
[02:27] <ogra> A samsung Q1 runs it over here, and yes, ubuntu mobile uses the standard ubuntu archive you can theoretically install everything from apache up to gnome
[02:27] <CShadowRun> and is there any way to test ubuntu mobile without installing KVM, KVM seriously borked my computer last time i tried to use it.
[02:27] <CShadowRun> nice :)
[02:27] <CShadowRun> like, could i try it out in virtualbox? that'd be nice.
[02:27] <persia> CShadowRun: Pretty much any device with an A100, A110, or Atom processor ought work fine.  Best experience for 1024x600 screens, and many things are optimised for the Samsung Q1U.
[02:28] <ogra> i did try it in virtualbox, but you need to manually convert the image wiht qemu to a vbox image
[02:28] <persia> There's been talk about virtualbox images, but I don't know of any published ones.
[02:28] <persia> ogra: How does one do that?
[02:28] <ogra> and to get a proper screen size you need the vbox modules in the image
[02:28] <ogra> there is a qemu command to convert it
[02:29] <CShadowRun> if someone could talk me through that it'd be nice
[02:29] <CShadowRun> i'm really into the idea of ubuntu mobile :D
[02:29] <CShadowRun> specially the python part, hehe
[02:30] <CShadowRun> as i say, i tried to apt-get install KVM before, and my entire system froze while "setting up kvm", and then my package manager was completely broken, because every time i did the dpkg command to repair, it tried to install kvm again :x
[02:30] <CShadowRun> after doing dpkg like 5 times it did finally go through, then i had to try another 2 times to remove the blasted thing because it broke virtualbox, lol
[02:30] <ogra> qemu-img convert <your qemu image>.img <raw image of your quemu image>.bin
[02:31] <CShadowRun> cool
[02:31] <CShadowRun> then what would i do with the output file?
[02:31] <ogra> vditool DD <final vbox image>.vdi <raw image of your quemu image>.bin
[02:31] <CShadowRun> ok :)
[02:31] <ogra> vditool is shipped with vbox
[02:32] <ogra> its a two step thing and the resulting image is a good bunch bigger than the qemu one
[02:32] <ogra> due to the step through the raw image
[02:33] <CShadowRun> hehe providing it's not more than like 800GB...
[02:33] <CShadowRun> lol
[02:33] <ogra> heh, no
[02:33] <ogra> but my vbox image is 5G vs the 2G qemu uses
[02:33] <CShadowRun> while file do i want? mid-8.04.1-kvm.tar.gz ?
[02:34] <ogra> hmm, no idea, i built my on image with the builder back then ... it was before release ...
[02:34] <CShadowRun> lol
[02:34] <ogra> but i suspect the kvm one is right
[02:34] <CShadowRun> kk :)
[02:34] <CShadowRun> the only other options are a few mccaslin and a few menlow ones.
[02:35]  * ogra slaps forehead
[02:35] <StevenK> CShadowRun: They are install images.
[02:35] <CShadowRun> ok :)
[02:35] <ogra> i just see vditool has a SHRINK command
[02:35] <CShadowRun> so i want the kvm one then
[02:35] <CShadowRun> ogra haha
[02:35] <CShadowRun> downloading that now, it'll be done in 15 minutes :p
[02:35] <ogra> well, diskspace is cheap :P
[02:36] <persia> Well, not too cheap: there seems to still be demand for 2G devices.
[02:36] <ogra> heh
[02:36] <ogra> sadly
[02:36] <ogra> life would be easier without them ...
[02:36] <persia> Indeed, given that 4G solid state is available in 130g devices these days...
[02:36] <ogra> at least my life :P
[02:37] <CShadowRun> hehe, personally i probably would buy a 2G
[02:37] <CShadowRun> and use a flash drive to install things on
[02:37] <CShadowRun> because SSD is so much more expensive than flash
[02:37] <CShadowRun> plus with flash you can carry a bunch with you :D
[02:37] <persia> SSD usually is flash.
[02:37] <CShadowRun> yea but they charge so much more for it compared to a USB flash stick
[02:37] <CShadowRun> (because it's new, and cool.)
[02:38] <persia> That will go away soon.  It's also just sizing.
[02:38] <CShadowRun> aye :)
[02:38] <ogra> yeah
[02:39] <persia> Anyway, the issue is more with the base install.  4G gives enough space to not *require* extra flash devices for basic use.  With 2G one needs to mangle the install images to try to get enough local space.
[02:39] <ogra> yeah :(
[02:39]  * persia has never had a 2G device, so maybe isn't very sympathetic
[02:39] <ogra> its a pain
[02:40] <ogra> but i have still some ideas to save more space i didnt work on yet :)
[02:40] <CShadowRun> lol the Q1U looks nice
[02:40] <CShadowRun> i found a B-Grade one for $686
[02:40] <persia> CShadowRun: It has the least useful keyboard I've ever seen on a device.  It's also larger than you would expect.  Other than that, it's pretty good.
[02:41] <ogra> i must admt i can imagine to get used to it if i wuldnt have a coice
[02:41] <ogra> *admit
[02:42] <StevenK> But why would you want to? It would turn your hands into claws not even suitable for console gaming after prolonged use
[02:42] <CShadowRun> lol i do admit it looks a bit ugly
[02:42] <ogra> its all about finger memory and getting your thumbs right
[02:43] <persia> The new Kohjinsha Atom boxes are awfully nice.  Smaller than the samsung, but in a convertible tablet form-factor (and still with ~7" 1024x600)
[02:43] <StevenK> ogra: And not hitting four keys with your Western-size thumb?
[02:43] <persia> ogra: You mean putting your thumbs in a pencil sharpener?
[02:43] <ogra> i mean i cant imagine messaging 200 words in 10 min with my mobile with one finger, but i know people who can
[02:43] <persia> StevenK: It's not just Western thumbs: I say that even thumbs on this side of the world rarely fit.
[02:43] <ogra> persia, something like that :)
[02:44] <CShadowRun> anything else thats "officially" (Or going to be officially) supported by ubuntu mobile?
[02:44] <CShadowRun> apart from the Q1
[02:44] <persia> ogra: I've seen people typing faster than that on mobiles, but the keys are bigger.
[02:44] <CShadowRun> i'm quite a fan of the XDA execs look, something like that would be awsome :p
[02:44] <ogra> right, they are
[02:45] <persia> CShadowRun: Anything with a Intel A110, A100, or Atom processor ought work.  With luck, things should work with VIA C7-M or AMD Geode.
[02:45] <CShadowRun> i see
[02:45] <CShadowRun> lol cool so it's happy in an EEEPC
[02:45] <CShadowRun> EEE is so tempting.
[02:46] <persia> Well, it's not happy yet.  It should work, but nobody has yet reported that it does.  On the other hand, nobody has explained why it doesn'T.
[02:46] <persia> Perhaps it will do better on the Atom EeePCs
[02:46] <CShadowRun> yea thats what i meant
[02:47] <ogra> which are out since a week or so
[02:47] <persia> Sure, but we've not a test report yet :)
[02:47] <ogra> two guys in #ltsp got theirs on monday
[02:48] <CShadowRun> huh? i found them available on google shopping already
[02:48] <ogra> the 901 atom ?
[02:48] <CShadowRun> yes
[02:48] <ogra> they didnt ship until very recently
[02:48] <CShadowRun> well they appear to be up, theres a bunch of them up :)
[02:48] <CShadowRun> and acer seem to make some too
[02:48] <persia> Yep.  Now that they've shipped, they are shipping in volume.
[02:48] <ogra> you could order them since a month or so at amazon though
[02:49] <ogra> there re more to come
[02:49] <ogra> honestly i would wait a bit for more beautiful and cheaper devices
[02:49] <persia> That's the unfortunate thing about devices: it's always better to wait another few months (although it is nice to have something to use)
[02:49]  * ogra is not an eee fan .... chepa keyboard and ugly case
[02:49] <ogra> *cheap
[02:50] <persia> Also in the unfortunate form factor: too big for the pocket, too small for serious use.
[02:50] <CShadowRun> the sharp D4 looks nice
[02:50] <ogra> if they at least were slim
[02:50] <CShadowRun> thats the sorta thing i'd love to get my hands on :p
[02:50] <CShadowRun> yea maybe
[02:50] <persia> CShadowRun: That is a lovely device.  The keyboard feels nice.  Fits in the pocket.
[02:50] <CShadowRun> sweet
[02:51] <CShadowRun> thats the sorta thing i'd love to get my hands on
[02:51] <persia> CShadowRun: Where are you?  It is likely one can be shipped.
[02:51] <CShadowRun> UK
[02:52] <ogra> heh, and runs vista by default
[02:52] <CShadowRun> well yea, but that can be changed :D
[02:52] <CShadowRun> there we go, download finished, i have a kvm file and a qcow2 file
[02:53] <persia> Hmm.  Neither trisoft nor dynamism is shipping the D4 yet.  I don't know anyone else who ships to the UK.
[02:53] <CShadowRun> aww.
[02:54] <persia> Dynamism does have the kohjinsha SC though (although it's still a little big)
[02:55]  * ogra twiddles thumbs ... 5 min to go fo rmy upload
[02:55] <CShadowRun> yea thats quite nice :)
[02:56] <CShadowRun> hmm, thats odd
[02:56] <CShadowRun> i have virtualbox installed, but i don't appear to have vditool
[02:56] <CShadowRun> ubuntu tells me to install the open source edition :p
[02:57] <ogra> i have it in /usr/bin/vditool
[02:57] <ogra> with the packages from the archive
[02:57] <persia> ogra: Which package provides /usr/bin/vditool for you?
[02:57] <CShadowRun> nope, not there for me :(
[02:57] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ dpkg -S /usr/bin/vditool
[02:57] <ogra> virtualbox-ose: /usr/bin/vditool
[02:58] <CShadowRun> not even on my computer, did a search lol
[02:58] <CShadowRun> i did a dpkg -L on my virtualbox, and it's not been installed.
[02:58] <CShadowRun> must only be included in the OSE version :S
[02:58] <ogra> but you use the nonfree version
[02:58] <ogra> i never tried that
[03:00] <CShadowRun> ah
[03:00] <CShadowRun> and these files that ubuntu came in arn't img files
[03:00] <CShadowRun> one is a kvm one is a qcow2
[03:01] <persia> qcow2 is the image file, and ought be able to be converted.
[03:02] <CShadowRun> with qemu-img convert root.qcow2 raw.img
[03:02] <CShadowRun> right?
[03:02] <persia> I think so, but I've not done that, so I'm guessing.
[03:03] <CShadowRun> now the only problem is vditool then :)
[03:03] <persia> For that you probably need virtualbox-ose
[03:03] <CShadowRun> i managed to find a copy of it on the web but it says i don't have libuuid.so.1
[03:03]  * CShadowRun tries installing the dev package
[03:05] <CShadowRun> i do have it though :/
[03:06] <CShadowRun> it's a symlink in /lib that points to libuuid.so.1.2
[03:06]  * ogra updates http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/ and prepares to finally get some sleep
[03:07] <ogra> phew ... that was a long day today
[03:07] <CShadowRun> hehe
[03:12]  * ogra waves ....
[03:12] <ogra> night all
[03:13] <CShadowRun> night :(
[18:40] <cshadowrun> I installed the ubuntu mobile package on my laptop
[18:40] <cshadowrun> but all it seems to do is like install a few new applications :(
[19:04] <ogra> cshadowrun, what did you expect to happen ?
[19:05] <ogra> th eubuntu-mobile package is a metapackage used to pull in the default set of applicaions into a mobile imae build
[19:05] <ogra> *image
[19:05] <ogra> (like all metapackages in ubuntu)
[19:07] <cshadowrun> uh
[19:07] <cshadowrun> i expected it to be like a diffrent desktop session or something
[19:07] <cshadowrun> so i could try it out just like it was a phone
[19:07] <cshadowrun> :(
[19:07] <cshadowrun> thats what i wanna do
[19:10] <ogra> then you would need ot install the whole image
[19:10] <cshadowrun> how do i do that?
[19:10] <ogra> but that wuld wipe your disk, the installer in hardy isnt very intelligent about such stuff
[19:10] <cshadowrun> thats fine
[19:10] <cshadowrun> i wanna test it on my laptop which has no data on it anyway
[19:11] <ogra> you can try the mccaslin image from the link in the channel topic
[19:11] <cshadowrun> is it an iso?
[19:11] <ogra> dd that to a usb key, boo from it and let the installer do its work
[19:11] <cshadowrun> oh
[19:11] <ogra> nope, n .img file
[19:11] <cshadowrun> how big usb key do i need?
[19:12] <ogra> 1Gn shoudl suffice
[19:12] <cshadowrun> i only have 512 :(
[19:14] <cshadowrun> wonder if i could run ubuntu off this image file
[19:14] <cshadowrun> s/ubuntu/virtualbox
[19:17] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/hardy/ says the mid-8.04.1-mccaslin-install-usb.img  is only 501
[19:17] <ogra> so 512M might work
[19:17] <cshadowrun> maybe
[19:20] <cshadowrun> ubuntu says the total capacity is 495.2MB
[19:20] <cshadowrun> :<
[19:20] <ogra> formatted as ext2/3 ?
[19:21] <cshadowrun> nah, msdos
[19:21] <ogra> note that this usually reserves 5% for root
[19:21] <ogra> ah, k
[19:21] <cshadowrun> maybe i can get this img file to load in virtualbox
[19:22] <ogra> you need to grab the kvm image for that and convert it to a vbox image
[19:22] <cshadowrun> oh cool i already got that :p
[19:23] <cshadowrun> only problem is vditool doesn't work on 64bit
[19:23] <cshadowrun> but i guess i can use my laptop to convert it
[19:23] <ogra> right
[19:23] <ogra> or build a 32bit chroot
[19:23] <cshadowrun> ?
[19:24] <ogra> debootstrap --arch i386 hardy ./chroot
[19:24] <ogra> that would build a chroot for 32bit in ./chroot
[19:25] <cshadowrun> that sounds complicated, i'll just use my laptop :p
[19:25] <ogra> with: sudo chroot ./chroot you can enter that and execute 32bit apps inside
[19:25] <cshadowrun> havn't been using linux for all that long.
[19:25] <cshadowrun> nah it has like library issues
[19:25] <cshadowrun> it says i have missing librarys (But i dont)
[19:25] <Maverick2k> computer says no ;)
[19:26] <cshadowrun> exactly :)
[19:26] <ogra> computer is silly !
[19:26] <ogra> :)
[19:27] <Maverick2k> but chroot is not that hard, you will create a user space for 32 bits
[19:27] <ogra> right
[19:28] <Maverick2k> and within that console you could do anything for your image
[19:28] <ogra> just takes a bit of time and diskspace but is handy for caese like the above
[19:28] <cshadowrun> so what do i have to do with the ubuntu.kvm and root.qcow2 to run them in vbox?
[19:28] <ogra> *cases
[19:28] <ogra> you need to convert the .kvm image to a raw one with qemu
[19:29] <ogra> then convert the raw image to a vbox one
[19:29] <cshadowrun> qemu-img convert ubuntu.kvm raw.img right?
[19:29] <cshadowrun> or qemu-img convert root.qcow2 raw.img
[19:29] <cshadowrun> because theres 2 files in the kvm package o.o
[19:31] <ogra> i think its the qcow, not sure though
[19:32] <cshadowrun> kk doing that
[19:32] <cshadowrun> what next?
[19:32] <ogra> use vditool to make a vbox image from that
[19:32] <cshadowrun> yea, now i meet with the vditool problem again :(
[19:33] <cshadowrun> it's not included in the binary virtualbox, and if i download it from someplace it says i have a missing libuuid
[19:33] <cshadowrun> which i don't, it's in /lib :x
[19:34] <cshadowrun> ./vditool: error while loading shared libraries: libuuid.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory.
[19:37] <ogra> its in the vitrualbox-ose package in the ubuntu archive
[19:38] <ogra> sorry i never tried any other vbox verson
[19:38] <cshadowrun> i have the binary version already installed
[19:38] <cshadowrun> i needed usb support
[19:38] <ogra> *version
[19:40] <cshadowrun> the version of vditool on the website must be broken
[19:40] <cshadowrun> theres no other way about it, my laptop has exactly the same files as my pc does, and it doesn't work on my pc.
[19:50]  * cshadowrun sighs and splits raw.img into a bunch of parts so i can transfer with usb drive
[19:53] <cshadowrun> urgh this job is gonna make me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.
[19:53] <cshadowrun> 14 parts.
[22:20] <cshadowrun> hey, anyone know how ubuntu mobile is on a Nokia N810 ?
[22:20] <cshadowrun> is everything supported? (GPS, Wifi, Bluetooth)
[22:23] <ogra> N810 has an ARM CPU
[22:23] <ogra> arm is not yet supported by ubuntu
[22:23] <ogra> (work i on the way though)
[22:23] <ogra> *is
[22:24] <cshadowrun> aww.
[22:30] <cshadowrun> i wish there was a list of them lol
[22:30] <ogra> list ?
[22:31] <cshadowrun> like a list of ubuntu mobile compatible devices
[22:31] <ogra> h, yeah
[22:31] <ogra> we should assembel something like that, but that needs more community involvement
[22:32] <cshadowrun> yea
[22:32] <ogra> i.e. people that are brave enough to trash their existing installs on their mobile devices and report back if it worked :)
[22:32] <GrueMaster> currently, essentially anything with an x86 core can be supported.  Images are specific to Intel chipsets at the moment.
[22:32] <ogra> right
[22:32] <ogra> but we dont now which devices specifically
[22:32] <cshadowrun> exactly :)
[22:32] <ogra> beyond the handfull we develop on
[22:33] <cshadowrun> it'd be nice to have a page with pictures and specs.
[22:33] <ogra> feel free to trigger something by making a call for testers on the mailing list ;)
[22:34] <GrueMaster> Don't need to know.  All you need to know is that Menlow images work with the Intel SCH500 chipset, and the Mccaslin images work with the 9xx series chipsets.
[22:34] <ogra> and setting up a wikipage
[22:34] <GrueMaster> specific hardware support can be tweaked in from there.
[22:34] <ogra> right but isnt there out of the box
[22:35] <ogra> people with not much tech knowledge will want to know if it just works for them
[22:35] <cshadowrun> exactly my thoughts :D
[22:35] <ogra> so an overview page would indeed make sense
[22:35] <ogra> and having some brave people helping testing and developing the device specific patches would help even more
[22:36] <GrueMaster> UME in it's current form is difficult to make out of the box support for a lot of systems.  It's too bad there isn't a better installation method.
[22:37] <ogra> that will get better with intrepid
[22:37] <ogra> and even if the ubiquity approach wouldnt work i have an installer thats working well and can easily be adjusted which i wrote for the classmate image i maintain since a year
[22:38] <ogra> so *something* will be there in intrepid
[22:39] <GrueMaster> cool
[22:39] <ogra> (preferably ubiquity indeed, since its slick)
[22:39] <cshadowrun> :)
[22:41] <cshadowrun> does anyone here actually own a ubuntu MID? :)
[22:44] <GrueMaster> I don't personally own one, but I work on them.
[22:44] <cshadowrun> got any names of some devices that work nice currently so i can look them up? :)
[22:45] <ogra> well, most deveopment is done on the samung Q1 ultra atm
[22:46] <cshadowrun> aww, they arn't that nice though
[22:46] <cshadowrun> and they are pretty expensive
[22:47] <ogra> get 100000 people to buy one and they get cheaper :P
[22:47] <cshadowrun> lmao
[22:47] <ogra> thats the rules of the market :)
[22:48] <GrueMaster> YOu could also use the Asus Eee PC.  It's almost the same hardware (sans touch screen).
[22:48] <cshadowrun> oh well it does have a touch screen so thats a bonus.
[22:49] <cshadowrun> yea, i want a handheld though
[22:49] <cshadowrun> already got a pair of laptops :p
[22:49] <ogra> btw did you get your vbox setup running ?
[22:49] <GrueMaster> Actually, it's about the same size, just in a clamshell with a fuller keyboard.
[22:49] <cshadowrun> ogra still transfering the file from my laptop, LAN is really slow :(
[22:49] <cshadowrun> 1:22 ETA :<
[22:49] <ogra> phew
[22:50] <cshadowrun> yea but i'm after something i can "Walk down the street™" with
[22:51] <ogra> yeah, desktop PCs are not really handy for that especially the generator you need to pull behind you
[22:51] <cshadowrun> yea, same with laptops
[22:51] <cshadowrun> unless you wanna kinda balence the laptop on one hand and type with the other :x
[22:51] <cshadowrun> or strap it to your arm.
[22:51] <cshadowrun> lol
[22:55] <cshadowrun> funny question, does the Q1U hard proper graphics drivers?
[22:55] <cshadowrun> (So like, could you run compiz? xD)
[22:56] <ogra> technically yes
[22:56] <cshadowrun> compiz would be awsome on a device like that lol, i could be such a show off.
[22:56] <cshadowrun> haha nice
[22:56]  * ogra didnt try it though
[22:56] <cshadowrun> you have a Q1U?
[22:56] <ogra> i have one here but dont own it
[22:57] <cshadowrun> ah
[22:57] <cshadowrun> lol why does everyone have one but not own it?
[22:57] <cshadowrun> is canocial giving them out to devs or something?
[22:57] <ogra> to employees at least
[22:58] <cshadowrun> nice
[22:58] <ogra> else it would be hard to develop MID ...
[22:58] <ogra> you need some HW ot work on
[22:58] <ogra> *to
[22:58] <cshadowrun> true
[22:58] <cshadowrun> Q1U is a bit big though :(
[22:58] <ogra> yeh
[22:59] <cshadowrun> i wonder if an OQO would work
[22:59] <ogra> i like it though, but the keyboard is misdesigned
[22:59] <cshadowrun> OQO is pocket sized :p
[22:59] <cshadowrun> yea the keyboard looks wrong.
[22:59] <cshadowrun> the OQO is an amazing device though, you seen the OQO's?
[23:00] <ogra> a while ago, yes
[23:00] <cshadowrun> yea they are old but i havn't found anything as nice as an OQO yet
[23:02] <cshadowrun> think ubuntu MID would work on an OQO?
[23:02] <cshadowrun> come to think of it, think ubuntu full would work on an OQO? lol
[23:03] <ogra> normal ubuntu likely would... its a plain c7
[23:04] <cshadowrun> funky
[23:07] <cshadowrun> OQO doesn't have a touch screen though, which makes me sad :(


[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[13:41] <mitya57> barry, isn't pypi argparse compatible with standard library argparse?
[14:42] <barry> mitya57: yes, i believe it is
[15:19] <pindonga> mitya57, it's essentially a stdalone version for python < 2.7 and < 3.2 (those don't include argparse in the stdlib)
[15:20] <pindonga> but the stdlib version is the preferred one
[15:20] <pindonga> so for python 2.7 and 3.2+ argparse should not really be packaged separately
[15:21] <pindonga> mitya57, barry I've submitted patches for both stevedore and cliff to upstream to remove argparse from requirements.txt
[15:21] <pindonga> now we need to wait for that to be accepted
[15:22] <barry> pindonga: and/or patch the debian versions of those packages
[15:22] <pindonga> right, I was going to ask about that
[15:22] <pindonga> would that be sensible? (to write a patch that sed's argparse away before packaging)
[15:22] <pindonga> ?
[15:24] <barry> pindonga: probably just a simple quilt patch would do in both cases, but i haven't looked at them in detail.  stevedore is owned by the debian openstack team and cliff is owned by the dpmt
[15:25] <barry> pindonga: at the very least, you should probably file debian bugs against both packages
[15:25] <pindonga> ack
[15:27] <pindonga> barry, looks like the latest one in sid is already patched?
[15:28] <pindonga> python-stevedore has a py3dist-overrides file that contains a single line: argparse
[15:28] <pindonga> I guess that's essentially telling to exclude argparse?
[15:36] <barry> pindonga: only at stevedore's build time iirc
[15:37]  * barry wonders if that would work for click-toolbelt
[15:37] <pindonga> barry, to add a similar file to click-toolbelt itself?
[15:37] <pindonga> I can try that
[17:14] <pindonga> barry, mitya57 I wasn't successful, but I'm not sure if it's bc it's not possible or bc of my lack of packaging skills
[17:14] <pindonga> I believe the problem is that py3dist-overrides only works for the package that has the dependency (in this case, python3-stevedore and python3-cliff)
[17:32] <mitya57> pindonga, right, I think py3dist-overrides has no effect on generated requirements.txt files
[17:33] <mitya57> So please file bugs.
[17:34] <pindonga> mitya57, on debian?
[17:35] <pindonga> or for ubuntu?
[17:36] <pindonga> mitya57, the python3-stevedore source pkg has a py3dist-overrides for argparse (both in debian and ubuntu)
[17:36] <pindonga> shouldn't that work?
[17:37] <mitya57> bugs → on debian bts
[17:37] <mitya57> pindonga, the py3dist-overrides is needed for dh_python3 to generate correct ${python3:Depends} on build time
[17:38] <mitya57> It has *no* effect on any files, one needs a patch to fix requirements.txt
[18:11] <pindonga> mitya57, ack
[18:16] <pindonga> ah! looks like stevedore already has a bug filed for this
[18:16] <pindonga> less work for me :)
[18:19] <mitya57> Oh, it's even release-critical
[18:37] <pindonga> mitya57, ok, created a bug for python3-cliff as well
[18:38] <mitya57> Nice!
[18:38] <mitya57> pindonga, will you mind if I update the found version in your bug so that BTS can understand it?
[18:39] <pindonga> please dop
[18:39] <pindonga> do


[12:59] <Dro> bonjour ...
[13:13] <elacheche> hey Dro
[13:14] <Dro> ahla bel elacheche  ! :)
[13:14] <Dro> ça va ?
[13:15] <elacheche> yep
[13:15] <elacheche> u
[13:16] <Dro> fucking bored ....
[13:16] <Dro> as always :D
[13:16] <Dro> ch3andek jdid ?
[13:18] <elacheche> Just busy :/
[13:19] <Dro> rabbi m3ak :)
[15:03] <Jihed_CLL_FSM> Hello all
[15:05] <Jihed_CLL_FSM> who's here
[15:13]  * elacheche is always here
[15:24] <hamzawi> hey everyone
[15:24] <hamzawi> how about session 2 elacheche
[15:30] <hamzawi> cc jihed
[15:30] <Jihed_CLLFSM> cc (-_-'
[15:30] <hamzawi> Jihed_CLLFSM, so
[15:31] <hamzawi> Mr. elacheche we're here to talk about session 2
[15:33] <elacheche> Hey guys!
[15:33] <hamzawi> Hey :D
[15:34] <elacheche> As I said in the ML and that post, Moheb is no longer available, so, if there is any other CLLFSM members who can take that responsability they can contact Moheb to coordonte with him, then subscribe to our ML to finish the organization there..
[15:35] <elacheche> Otherwise, we can use IRC to have our next sessions..
[15:35] <elacheche> That's in case that the people who were present are still interested in it
[15:36] <Jihed_CLLFSM_> sorry so weak network signal
[15:36] <Jihed_CLLFSM_> & as i said, no problm i could help.
[15:37] <elacheche> No problem.. I'll send you what you didn't read in private to not spam ubuntulog
[15:37] <elacheche> Check PM Jihed_CLLFSM_
[15:39] <elacheche> So..
[15:39] <hamzawi> so let's do it :D I'm very interested
[15:40] <Jihed_CLLFSM_> we've to make sure that people still interested in this course or not.
[15:40] <hamzawi> let's make an event on failbook to see how many are interested, u're right Jihed_CLLFSM_
[15:41] <elacheche> -_-
[15:41] <elacheche> +1 Jihed_CLLFSM_ -1 hamzawi :p
[15:42] <hamzawi> :3 ok ignore failbook -_-
[15:42] <elacheche> I think that you already know the people who were present.. So you can ask them in person
[15:42] <elacheche> Otherwise, I know that CLLFSM had an internal ML.. Do you still have that?
[15:43] <elacheche> Do you still have a domaine name?
[15:43] <hamzawi> that's a shitty ML -_- I'll ask people in person
[15:44] <elacheche> ML's and IRC channels are the bases and homes of FOSS projects, you should not giveup on using them
[15:45] <hamzawi> I know, but my responsabilities in CLLFSM are minimal cause I don't study computer science -_-
[15:46] <elacheche> o_O
[15:46] <hamzawi> forget it, let's focus on the training, come on elacheche :p
[15:48] <hamzawi> so, I'll ask those people, and then we can make a decision
[15:48] <elacheche> :) My 1st recomendation is ti talk with Moheb and the guys if they're still interested :)
[15:48] <elacheche> Exactly hamzawi
[15:49] <elacheche> hamzawi: Even is only 5 or less persons still interested we can do it on irc :)
[15:49] <elacheche> 1h each weekend night will do the thing :)
[15:50] <hamzawi> nice, especially for me :) good idea, but let me talk to the guys first
[15:52] <elacheche> Good :)
[15:53] <hamzawi> Deal (y)
[15:55] <elacheche> I GTG.. I'll be here by night I guess..
[15:56] <hamzawi> ok :p
[15:56] <hamzawi> u can go :D


[00:03] <popey> pip pip
[00:04] <jacobw> toodle do
[00:06] <AlanBell> hi popey
[01:39] <Seeker`> ali1234, seems that a 290e scans/tunes correctly. Still no idea why my other two cards are dead though
[10:11] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:12] <SuperEngineer> morninks brobostigon
[10:13] <brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
[10:16] <Myrtti> morning
[10:16] <Myrtti> swype is usable again, wheee
[10:17] <brobostigon> morning Myrtti
[10:17] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: why was it not? [interested as I've recently installed it]
[10:17] <Myrtti> didn't have tab or arrow keys for a while
[10:18] <SuperEngineer> ...assuming that was Skype??
[10:18] <Myrtti> made irssi usage difficult on mobile
[10:18] <Myrtti> no
[10:18] <SuperEngineer> my bad
[10:18] <Myrtti> Swype
[10:18] <SuperEngineer> ok
[10:37] <SuperEngineer_> ok - who nicked my internet... and why am I now showing as both me & me_ [come on xchat - get it right!]
[10:38] <SuperEngineer_> time to log off & back on... 'scuse me a mo
[10:43] <cjo> argh, I think my mythtv backend is screwed :(
[10:44] <cjo> Got a disk to replace the failing one I can do sometihng about, spent hours copying stuff over. Updated the machine and rebooted and now I'm getting a bad superblock error
[10:44] <cjo> on the new drive. As well as a pre-existing bad superblock on another drive
[10:58] <jacobw> hey
[10:58] <brobostigon> hey jacobw
[11:00] <jacobw> hey brobostigon, how's it going?
[11:00] <brobostigon> jacobw: not bad, and you?
[11:06] <jacobw> brobostigon: pretty good, working through some project euler today
[11:06] <brobostigon> jacobw: :)
[12:09] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - Big Bang Theory or catch up on work emails... hmmm -such a quandary ;)
[12:12] <brobostigon> big bang, everytime, :)
[12:12] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: +1
[12:12] <brobostigon> :)
[13:15] <SuperEngineer> Just been catching up on work emails - one demanding a "new mythology" re a certain customer. I have promised to comply ;)
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> [things I do whilst watching BigBang!]
[13:16] <ali1234> lol
[13:16] <ali1234> are you going to develop a new backstory involving elves?
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: that *is* a good idea! - then watch boss's brain melt
[13:20] <SuperEngineer> ...could even tell him I was inspired miMecraft [deliberate mis-spell]
[13:21] <SuperEngineer> *inspired by
[13:36] <SuperEngineer> connxn slowing to a halt.. me sign off now
[16:17] <popey> Pip pip!
[16:20] <penguin42> Hey Popey
[17:05] <DJShira> hello
[17:05] <DJShira> im new in Linux etc and have a little problem with my firefox flash
[17:06] <popey> DJShira: hello
[17:06] <DJShira> firefox dont find the flash plugin, i have tryd it now with google chrome and here it works very fine
[17:06] <DJShira> hello popey
[17:07] <brobostigon> chrome has flash already there built into itself. which is seperate from the normal installed flash.
[17:07] <popey> DJShira: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-installer
[17:07] <DJShira> no, i must install it manual in chrome
[17:07] <popey> DJShira: chrome or chromium?
[17:07] <DJShira> popey i have tryd it
[17:08] <popey> what happens when you run that command?
[17:08] <DJShira> also manual in firefox
[17:08] <DJShira> *chrome
[17:08] <DJShira> its allready installed
[17:08] <popey> brobostigon is right, chrome has flash already built in
[17:08] <popey> what isn't working then?
[17:08] <popey> http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/
[17:08] <popey> does that page tell you what version of flash you have installed?
[17:08] <DJShira> firefox dont fin it
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> DJones: have you retarted since installing it?
[17:09] <DJShira> 11.2
[17:09] <popey> SuperEngineer: not necessary
[17:09] <DJShira> ah wrong
[17:09] <DJShira> i have
[17:09] <DJShira> 11,5,31,137 installed
[17:09] <popey> unless you mean "restarted browser" ☺
[17:09] <popey> ok, good, so you have flash
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> popey... thought it still was... - i'll shut up ;)
[17:09] <popey> hah
[17:10] <DJShira> but in firefox dont work
[17:10] <popey> DJShira: so what exactly isn't working
[17:10] <popey> "don't work" isn't sufficient information
[17:10] <DJShira> firefox cant find flash
[17:10] <popey> what are you doing and what doesn't work?
[17:10] <popey> e.g. what website
[17:10] <DJShira> firefox say i have no flash installed
[17:10] <penguin42> when?
[17:10] <popey> if you visit http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ in firefox, does it give a version number?
[17:11] <DJShira> nope
[17:11] <popey> what version of ubuntu are you using? and are you using it on a normal pc, not an arm based tablet?
[17:12] <DJShira> i have also tryd to search about my problem via google but nobody have that problem. the flash lib is in the firefox folder etc
[17:13] <DJShira> i have it on my new acer pc
[17:13] <DJShira> i dont know what ubuntu version it exactly is, its based on ubuntu
[17:13] <popey> "based on ubuntu"?
[17:13] <popey> so is it mint?
[17:13] <penguin42> DJShira: Start again, what exactly have you got installed on this PC?
[17:13] <DJShira> you know how i mean, its ubuntu but with many many tools
[17:14] <penguin42> DJShira: No, we don't know - what exactly
[17:14] <DJShira> backttrack
[17:14] <popey> no, I dont know how you mean
[17:14] <popey> right, thats not ubuntu
[17:14] <popey> you want #backtrack
[17:15] <DJShira> it is ubuntu^
[17:15] <popey> no. it is not
[17:15] <popey> it is _based_ on ubuntu. It is not Ubuntu
[17:15] <penguin42> DJShira: You need to be honest if you are going to get any help; please telll us exactly what you have done if you want any
[17:16] <penguin42> DJShira: How exactly did you install flash?
[17:16] <DJShira> havt i also know is, under system - pref, when i click on adobe flash player i get a error message (permission denided)
[17:17] <DJShira> i have install the flashplayer-instzaller via synaptic
[17:17] <DJShira> that has not work
[17:17] <DJShira> then i have erease it and install it manual
[17:17] <DJShira> also dont work
[17:18] <DJShira> then i have install google chrome
[17:18] <DJShira> create a plugins folder
[17:18] <DJShira> copyd the flash plugin in the plugin folder
[17:18] <DJShira> have change the menu command from google chtome to enable plugins
[17:18] <DJShira> start chrome
[17:18] <DJShira> flash work
[17:19] <penguin42> DJShira: I'd go back to installing it via the package and see what's going wrong there
[17:20] <DJShira> install work
[17:20] <DJShira> no probs
[17:21] <DJShira> but firefox cant detect it
[17:21] <brobostigon> does it show in about:plugins in FF ?
[17:21] <DJShira> no
[17:22] <SuperEngineer> DJShira: "Installer for the Adobe Flash plug-in for Mozilla"
[17:22] <popey> i believe there is some information missing here. like it's firefox under wine or something equally odd.
[17:22] <DJShira> but it is in the mozilla/plugins folder
[17:23] <penguin42> popey: Not necessarily, I've seen firefox misbehave like this, but I'm not prepared to debug except via the pacakge
[17:23] <DJShira> nope its not under wine
[17:23] <popey> well, if there's been sufficient dicking about with the system it's hard to know what state its in
[17:23] <penguin42> DJShira: You could try deleting the pluginreg.dat files that are a few levels down in |/.mozilla/firefox   it sometime gets confused about that
[17:23] <DJShira> ok i try
[17:24] <popey> or it's firefox from a tarball or something
[17:24] <popey> people who use backtrack do _odd_ things
[17:24] <popey> IMHO
[17:24] <penguin42> haha
[17:24] <popey> odd as in "using backtrack" being the first one
[17:24] <DJShira> i have also delete the installed firefox and download and install the new from the mozilla homepage
[17:25] <popey> there we go
[17:25] <popey> told you
[17:25] <SuperEngineer> boooom!
[17:26] <penguin42> DJShira: OK, forget it - I'm not helping; you could have told us that 20 minutes ago
[17:26] <DJShira> ok now im confused
[17:26] <penguin42> DJShira: Try somewhere else, not here
[17:26] <DJShira> firefox have delete the plugin self from the folder? OO
[17:28] <DJShira> hu whats now wrong? OO sry when my english is not the best
[17:34] <popey> DJShira: i would recommend removing your firefox/mozilla folders in your home directory (or create a new user, so start blank), install firefox from the repository, and flash from the repository "sudo apt-get install --reinstall firefox flashplugin-installer" and then test that install
[17:35] <popey> and focus just on getting that thing fixed, and not muck about with other browsers / download tarballs
[17:35] <popey> also, I would recommend either using Ubuntu or Debian. Backtrack seem to have zero support, and just send their users to ubuntu irc channels which is not the right thing to do
[17:35] <DJShira> ok ty i will try
[17:38] <ali1234> backtrack is for pen testing
[17:38] <ali1234> if you need end user support you shouldn't be using it in the first place
[17:39] <popey> well, indeed
[17:39] <ali1234> i think people confuse "security distro" with "secure distro"
[17:40] <DJShira_> sry crashed
[17:40] <ali1234> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#I.27m_new_to_linux.2C_is_BackTrack_a_good_place_to_start_.3F
[17:43] <DJShira_> yes ok but i thing the basic things like flash etc must work same as in other distr.
[17:43] <penguin42> DJShira_: The way they are installed and managed aren't
[17:44] <ali1234> it's based on ubuntu 10.04
[17:44] <ali1234> so it's basically 3 years out of date now
[17:45] <popey> hah, oh dear
[17:45] <penguin42> although still in support
[17:45] <popey> define support
[17:46] <popey> (from backtrack)
[17:46] <penguin42> popey: 10.04 is still in support
[17:46] <popey> its not 10.04 tho
[17:46] <ali1234> 3 year support on desktop
[17:46] <popey> you know this though ☺
[17:46] <ali1234> so that expires in like 2 months
[17:46] <penguin42> and hence it hasn't yet
[17:46] <popey> thats come around fast
[17:47] <ali1234> support doesn't cover the whole distro anyway
[17:47] <ali1234> it covers packages
[17:47] <popey> it covers ff and flash tho
[17:47] <ali1234> you can tell, because different packages are supported for different timeframes
[17:47] <ali1234> therefore this must be true
[17:47] <popey> you can tell by looking at the package
[17:47] <ali1234> also, define support?
[17:47] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache show firefox | grep Supported
[17:47] <popey> Supported: 5y
[17:48] <ali1234> when you say "ubuntu is supported for x years" it doesn't mean "we will tell you how to install it"
[17:48]  * penguin42 wonders if popey also has earth
[17:48] <ali1234> it means "we will backport security fixes to these packages"
[17:48] <penguin42> ali1234: No, but it will mean that I'd help someone with it
[17:48] <ali1234> thus if backtrack uses the same repos like mint does, then the backtrack packages are covered by this support, whether the developers like it or not
[17:48]  * penguin42 only got rid of his work laptops 10.04 a couple of months ago
[17:49] <ali1234> well i will help people using 8.04 if they have a good reason to do so
[17:49] <ali1234> i'm not bound by any support contract, the 3y/5y thing is irrelevant to me
[17:49] <ali1234> point being, "supported" is another one of those weasel words
[17:50] <popey> not if you define it
[17:50] <ali1234> to the customer it means "tell me how it works" to developers it means "maintained"
[17:50] <ali1234> yeah but nobody ever does
[17:50] <DJShira_> ah totaly forgotten to post the reinstall errors
[17:50] <ali1234> "stable" is another one
[17:50] <DJShira_> 2013-01-13 18:40:13 ERROR 404: Not Found.  download failed The Flash plugin is NOT installed.
[17:50] <ali1234> to consumer it means "does not crash" - to developers it means "i'm never changing the code again"
[17:50] <popey> there we go DJShira_
[17:51] <popey> so the flashplugin-installer package is getting the "wrong" flash tarball
[17:51] <popey> someone should try and reproduce that on a real 10.04 system
[17:51] <popey> if it's indeed broken then we need to fix it
[17:51] <ali1234> well it's probably an ancient flashplugin-installer trying to download an ancient flashplugin that adobe no longer ships
[17:51] <popey> yes
[17:51] <popey> but we can fix it
[17:51] <popey> i will happily test in a vm later on, but for now I'm off to San Francisco to walk about and drink beer
[17:52] <ali1234> no need to actually try this on a real system, just loook at the packages
[17:52] <popey> ttfn
[17:52] <penguin42> popey: Nice
[17:52] <popey> true, file a bug ali1234 if you feel inclined and I'll poke people
[17:52] <ali1234> it's probably backtrack not importing the newest package
[17:52] <popey> i thought they use the same repo/archive
[17:52] <popey> like mint
[17:52] <popey> anyway, ttfn
[17:53] <ali1234> i dunno if they do or not
[17:53] <penguin42> sounds like bug 1064743
[17:53] <ali1234> i don't even know if mint does these days
[17:55] <penguin42> my oneiric mint seems to have a mix
[17:57] <ali1234> backtrack looks like an overlay repository
[17:59] <ali1234> !info flashplugin-installer
[17:59] <ali1234> it's multiverse
[18:00] <ali1234> which means it isn't supported *at all*
[18:00] <ali1234> especially not by canonical
[18:00] <ali1234> so the "5 year support" does not apply. at all.
[18:00] <ali1234> !info adobe-flashplugin
[18:01] <ali1234> !info flashplugin-installer lucid
[18:02] <ali1234> same version
[18:02] <DJShira_> nice :/
[18:02] <ali1234> but notice it's in security/updates: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+package/flashplugin-installer
[18:02] <ali1234> so i'm 99.99% sure this problem is caused by backtrack being a kang
[18:05] <DJShira_> i have now setup it again (newer version) and why he say and older version is available?
[18:05] <DJShira_> the flash problem is only in firefox
[18:05] <DJShira_> not in chrome
[18:06] <ali1234> i dunno. going for dinner
[18:07] <SuperEngineer> DJShira_: why not just use Chrome then - solves your problem!
[18:07] <brobostigon> as i have said previously, chrome has flash already built into it,
[18:07] <ali1234> you should read the backtrack faq especially this part http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#I.27m_new_to_linux.2C_is_BackTrack_a_good_place_to_start_.3F
[18:07] <DJShira_> i have read it
[18:09] <DJShira_> but the flash works,  only not in firefox. I have install the firefox from the mozilla page, intsall the flash from launchpad and yay firefox dont like it
[18:12] <DJShira_> but i have found a interessting thing in the ubuntu folders, called FLASHBLOCK
[18:13] <DJShira_> flashblock desc - Firefox extension that replaces flash plugin by a button
[18:18] <DJShira_> ok i thing i have found how i canmake it work, oh yes the backtrack site have a how to make flash work. great :D
[18:20] <SuperEngineer> What? - you mean backtrack has this answeredon the backtrack site?.... odd that... hmmm
[18:21] <DJShira_> yes, after long sdearch i have found it
[18:21] <DJShira_> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/Install_Flash_Player
[18:24] <DJShira_> yay haha dont work OO
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> coooo;
[18:55] <czajkowski> c
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> ignoe previous - meant for Skype
[18:58] <SuperEngineer> darn -my spelling was bad there... perhaps I should start installing flash ;)
[19:07] <SuperEngineer> Anyone here using Skype app on Ubuntu? My q/ is: how to increase font size in chats window?
[19:08] <SuperEngineer> [tried different "styles" in it's settings to no avail]
[20:14] <directhex> moo.
[21:22] <Azelphur> does anyone get a bug with gedit where the cursor disappears when you minimise it? drives me nuts :(
[21:34] <ali1234> how can you tell that the cursor disappears when you minimize it?
[21:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: I mean, when you bring it up again, the text cursor is gone
[21:34] <Azelphur> so you have no idea where your typing
[21:35] <ali1234> what?
[21:35] <ali1234> gone?
[21:35] <Azelphur> yup
[21:35] <ali1234> hell no i never saw anything like that
[21:35] <ali1234> and i use gedit all day every day
[21:35] <Azelphur> Step 1) Minimise gedit, Step 2) bring gedit back, Step 3) You now don't have a text cursor, enjoy frustration
[21:35] <ali1234> that sounds like a compiz bug tbh
[21:35] <ali1234> sounds like the firefox focus issue
[21:36] <ali1234> where you unminimize firefox and you can't type into anything like URL bar, search bar
[21:36] <Azelphur> Maybe, I get a similar issue with nautilus too
[21:36] <ali1234> you can click in them but there i just no cursor. the windw looks selected too
[21:36]  * Azelphur tries the firefox thing
[21:36] <Azelphur> nah doesn't happen with firefox, just gedit and nautilus.
[21:36] <ali1234> to repro it in firefox i think you have to minimize it, then click a URL in some other app and cause it to unminimize
[21:37] <ali1234> this bug has been fixed and regressed about 5 times in the past 2 years
[21:37] <Azelphur> nope still can't replicate (I used terminal to simulate clicking a link since ff isn't my default browser)
[21:38] <Azelphur> maybe soreau would know since he knows all the compiz things
[21:39] <ali1234> does typing work?
[21:39] <Azelphur> yea typing works
[21:39] <Azelphur> and clicking to set position works
[21:39] <ali1234> it's something different then
[21:39] <Azelphur> yea
[21:40] <ali1234> what if you press insert
[21:41] <ali1234> or change colour scheme
[21:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: cursor still invisible, although it still replaces characters as it should
[21:41] <soreau> Azelphur: Sounds possible that it's a keyboard focus issue. You can try another wm to see if it's compiz
[21:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: colour scheme doesn't fix it
[21:44] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:55] <inn0min4t3_> Good evening
[21:59] <ali1234> i just accidentally mistyped slashdot and ended up on some gambling site with this terrible bit of photoshopping http://imagebin.org/242781
[22:01] <mgdm> coudln't it be the other woman's arm?
[22:02] <ali1234> i suppose it could be but i think my version is more amusing
[22:03] <mgdm> true :)
[22:12] <bigcalm> Amusing :)
[22:14] <skinofstars> hi all
[23:36] <bigcalm> mgdm: happy b'day btw :)
[23:36] <solarcloud_3scrn> Hi there.. I'm just checking wasn't the 'test' machine for The Ubuntu -TV distro supposed to be the 'Acer Revo RL70' or am I mistaken in that ???
[23:36] <solarcloud_3scrn> popey,ping
[23:37] <solarcloud_3scrn> popey, ping
[23:39] <solarcloud_3scrn> Come on, Nerds ... help me out here, pretty please ??
[23:40] <daftykins> solarcloud_3scrn: do you think that's funny?
[23:44] <solarcloud_3scrn> Got it .. "what's the target hardware
[23:44] <solarcloud_3scrn>    ... we used an Acer Revo during development," https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing .. looks ike they just used that for dev.  .. shame as I had a REVO offer for £130 +P&P (usu. £350)  .. oh well. And no , don't take offence.
[23:45] <daftykins> i'm not, i think less of you for typing it though
[23:45] <daftykins> if it's an old Ion 1 Revo, forget it
[23:45] <daftykins> they're old school
[23:46] <solarcloud_3scrn> thought it was this one ...
[23:46] <solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acer-Revo-RL70-320GB-4GB-AMD-Nettop-PC-Windows-7-/271138221296?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D4856002109217952313%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D271137531596%26
[23:47] <daftykins> oh an AMD E-450
[23:47] <daftykins> even worse :>
[23:48] <solarcloud_3scrn> why do I always feel like mypetals have torn off everytime I visit this #channel and ask a general question ??Why is that daftykins , WHY ??
[23:48] <daftykins> i'm not sure, are you really a flower? :D
[23:49] <solarcloud_3scrn> I'm a buttercup :)
[23:49] <solarcloud_3scrn> today, anyway.
[23:50] <daftykins> heh
[23:50] <daftykins> truthfully i don't know how that AMD benches against intel atoms
[23:50] <daftykins> but my feeling would be that it's a glorified calculator
[23:50] <solarcloud_3scrn> I had my b.day party, today .. althou my b.day was over a week ago... :)
[23:52] <daftykins> O_O how odd
[23:53] <solarcloud_3scrn> all the restaurants were shut .. so we leave it a week every year ...
[23:53] <cjo> coming from someone that describes themsevles as a flower, relatively not that odd
[23:55] <solarcloud_3scrn> I'd love to see Ubuntu TV on the game stick :: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/872297630/gamestick-the-most-portable-tv-games-console-ever/
[23:57] <solarcloud_3scrn> although I think that slightly disrupts the Shuttle's vision :)


[05:12] <jetboy69> hi
[05:12] <jetboy69> i have a new gateway LT3103u netbookl
[05:12] <jetboy69> i have been trouble booting a live CD thumbdrive
[05:12] <jetboy69> i have a BIOS compatability issue
[05:13] <jetboy69> i called the BIOS mfge
[05:13] <jetboy69> and i have the latest for mine
[05:13] <jetboy69> but i am getting errors with it, and acpi issue as well
[05:13] <jetboy69> i have selected f6 and selected acpi=off
[05:13] <jetboy69> still failing
[05:14] <jetboy69> does anyone have any suggestions
[05:14] <jetboy69> for getting around this..? the boot statement modifying etc


[18:46] <zequence> Hi. Was looking to get this SRU'd lp:#956438
[18:47] <zequence> I patched jackd2 for raring
[18:47] <penguin42> bug 956438
[18:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
[18:47] <zequence> jackd2 has since been updated, but I'd like to SRU the patch only
[18:49] <penguin42> zequence: So it's fixed on raring but broken on quantal and precise?
[18:50] <zequence> penguin42: Yes
[18:50] <zequence> However, the current version in Raring, while fixing the bug as well, would depend on newer packages, so that's why it seems most appropriate to only SRU the patch
[18:51] <zequence> Or, the version of the package with the patch, that is
[18:52]  * penguin42 isn't sure I've done that right - I hit the target for and selected Precise-updates, not sure if that's right though
[19:35] <schallusion> hi, after upgrading to the new kernel (3.2.0.-36) yesterday, my wlan stoped working. It is a Broadcom BCM 4313 device. any idea what could have gone wrong?
[19:37] <schallusion> iam using 12.04.1
[19:50] <zequence> schallusion: Try googling it. Else, make a bug report.


[01:04] <pauljw> hi
[01:09] <TJ-> morning
[01:12] <pauljw> :)
[01:32] <daftykins> hi team \o
[01:32] <daftykins> TJ-: wb, hope you've avoided all the weather drama and had a good festive period :)
[01:33] <TJ-> hiya... too far south for anything but a few showers; been busy hacking as per :)
[01:33] <TJ-> have you had the week off ?
[01:34] <daftykins> nah been on duty :D
[01:35] <daftykins> broken christmas present duty, smashed phones and wonky christmas router duty!
[01:36] <daftykins> all good fun though, keeping busy
[01:44] <TJ-> :D
[01:47] <daftykins> TJ-: i think my favourite from the last while was the cabling job folks, "please help with wifi printer that hasn't worked since you helped re-do cabling"
[01:47] <TJ-> errr...!
[01:47] <daftykins> visit, printer fell off wifi, re-enter key - done. printer spits out 8 pages, then the rollers feeding in the paper get so covered in dust from the worked on property, stop working
[01:48] <daftykins> no more printer!
[01:48] <daftykins> can't even get to them to give them a good finger nail scrape
[01:50] <TJ-> they let the dust get into the printer?
[01:51] <rww> nice. i have my printer (turned off and) covered in a blanket when i'm not using it or it gets full of dust and cat hair
[01:51] <daftykins> just a bit too much floating around their place since they're living in a temporary room whilst they have the rest worked on
[01:51] <rww> (it's a box see, so the cat thinks it's a pedestal for him)
[01:51] <daftykins> :D
[01:52] <daftykins> i said i was sure i could take it apart and give it a clean, but whether it was worth my time or not, i doubted it
[01:53] <rww> if it's a basic inkjet printer, probably not
[01:54] <daftykins> you could stare at the wheels atop the paper stack and see them spin without moving a sheet :)
[01:54] <daftykins> could've been a bad match of paper i guess, too - but eh
[01:54] <TJ-> get the ole IPA out, rag the rollers, and blow-out with a compressor :)
[01:54] <daftykins> mmm i would've had i had them on hand
[01:55] <daftykins> couldn't even reach into the unit to touch them it was so tight
[01:55] <daftykins> so i had to say err, well there's your 8 pages, got the network portion done but newp, she's dead
[02:29] <daftykins> oof heavy rain again outdoors
[02:29] <daftykins> that's storm Frank waking up!
[02:33] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Well above the storm surge I hope you are !
[03:21] <pauljw> gnite all
[05:05] <Bashing-om> Had all I can stands, can't stands no more ..... Good Night.
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[08:59] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:28] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[19:51] <DosTuMai> Herpderp.  D= And I don't like it...
[20:00] <daftykins> how dare you...
[20:01] <DosTuMai> Bad connection is bad. I'm downloading a new Ubuntu iso, it's just taking forever. =|
[20:02] <daftykins> can't get anything good up there? o0
[20:03] <DosTuMai> <_<
[20:03] <DosTuMai> If I paid for it, of course.
[20:06] <daftykins> is virgin media up norf?
[20:07] <DosTuMai> Not good in this area. BT has better.
[20:07] <daftykins> mmm
[20:08] <DosTuMai> Yes, I know my IP when I connect shows BT...
[20:09] <daftykins> plenty of packages i'm sure
[20:09] <pauljw> hi everyone
[20:10] <daftykins> greetings \o
[20:10] <DosTuMai> Hi, PaulJW. o/
[20:10] <pauljw> :)
[20:42] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
[20:44] <BluesKaj> hey pauljw, Happy New Year! :-)
[20:44] <pauljw> ty, same to you and yours...  :)
[20:44] <BluesKaj> thanks
[20:45] <BluesKaj> gonna be a quiet one around here, but we're used to that now.
[20:45] <pauljw> yeah