[00:24] <magickseeker> Now that the major flavors (Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, likely others) have dropped Mir, as well as Intel's latest announcement, what now? It is clear many people don't like the "proprietary" feel of Mir's licensing and Canonical's move to make its own separate xserver.
[00:33] <magickseeker> Mir's license makes it NOT opensource!!!
[06:18] <AbhiDGamer> hello
[06:41] <dholbach> good morning
[23:12] <rosey> good morning or evening jono
[23:14] <rosey> hi can see and hear you
[23:16] <rosey> what


[01:40] <lifeless> elmo: 'we haven't used it'
[01:47] <wgrant> Er, yes, forgot to actually expand it, sorry.
[02:06] <wgrant> errrm
[02:08] <wgrant> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-2107AP52 is a worry
[02:09] <wgrant> Erk erk erk.
[02:09] <wgrant> BugTaskStatus is a lie.
[02:09] <wgrant> 13/14 are INCOMPLET_WITH(OUT)_RESPONSE
[02:09] <wgrant> But they're not in BugTaskStatus
[02:09] <wgrant> Only in BugTaskStatusSearch
[02:10] <wgrant> Fortunately the migrator is buggy and crashing, so not too many bugs are broken.
[03:25] <lifeless> meep
[03:25] <lifeless> (erm, what do you mean)
[03:26] <wgrant> lifeless: It looks like only Product:+series is actually crashing due to this enum strangeness, but it's still pretty horrible.
[03:27] <wgrant> Bug #871076
[03:27] <lifeless> thanks, have commented
[03:28] <wgrant> Have you?
[03:28] <lifeless> email
[03:28] <wgrant> Ah
[03:30] <lifeless> so the incomplete patch teachs enumvariable about multiple schemas
[03:31] <lifeless> so we can do evolutions like this
[03:31] <lifeless> on load things not found in the first schema are looked up in the second etc
[03:32] <wgrant> Ah
[03:32] <lifeless> I haven't checked the view in question specifically but it sounds like its grouping by and then manually making a dict of the types expected
[03:32] <wgrant> Right, it manually does BugTaskStatus.items[somevaluefromthedb]
[03:32] <lifeless> one way would be to change that to use search
[03:33] <lifeless> another would be to generate a mapping dict manually (or better yet teach the column now to do it)
[03:33] <lifeless> s/now/how/
[03:34] <lifeless> BugTask._status.load(somevaluefromthedb, from_db=True) or some such, -might- do it already.
[03:34] <lifeless> but I suspect the code is currently too coupled to being a descriptor rather than mapping + description
[03:37] <lifeless> .
[20:20] <wgrant> Morning.
[20:24] <jelmer> g'morning wgrant
[20:32] <mwhudson> good morning
[20:32] <wgrant> Morning jelmer, mwhudson.
[20:40] <lifeless> morning early-grant
[20:42] <wgrant> Hi lifeless.
[20:48]  * mwhudson forgets things
[20:49] <mwhudson> can i land changes to the config branch with pqm or does a losa have to do that?
[20:49] <lifeless> pqm
[20:49] <mwhudson> cool
[20:50] <wgrant> https://dev.launchpad.net/WorkingWithProductionConfigs
[20:51] <lifeless> much of that should probably be in-tree in a README
[20:51] <lifeless> (or at least, a link to that wiki page)
[20:51] <wgrant> mwhudson: It's been deployed *everywhere*?
[20:51] <mwhudson> wgrant: https://devpad.canonical.com/~wgrant/production-revnos says so
[20:52] <wgrant> Great.
[20:53] <wgrant> Just wanted to be sure, as this week is a bit special.
[20:53] <mwhudson> ah, release week & all that?
[20:53] <wgrant> Yes.
[20:53] <wgrant> and we need to deploy a fix to cocoplum before oneiric freezes for good.
[20:53] <wgrant> And hope that nothing else is broken.
[20:54] <mwhudson> it only took 12 days from (re-)landing to deployment
[20:54] <mwhudson> felt longer
[20:54] <mwhudson> how did we cope in the old deploy once a month world?
[20:54] <wgrant> Yeah.
[20:54] <wgrant> The librarian took a little while to get HA.
[20:54] <wgrant> But it's pretty much done now.
[20:54] <wgrant> Finally.
[20:54] <lifeless> \o/
[20:54] <mwhudson> cool
[20:54] <wgrant> Just need to add graceful shutdown.
[20:54] <wgrant> But everything is through haproxy, which is the hard bit.
[20:55] <wgrant> Which leaves poppy :(
[20:56] <wgrant> Hmm, I wonder what happens if we just push the FTP control connection through haproxy, but leave the data connection to go directly.
[20:56] <wgrant> I suppose that would work.
[20:56] <wgrant> And be trivial.
[20:57] <lifeless> wgrant: thats what I've been telling you :)
[20:57] <lifeless> wgrant: as a first iteration
[20:58] <lifeless> second iteration will need more thought
[20:58] <wgrant> Well, I'd been missing the fact that we don't care about the data connection.
[20:58] <wgrant> Because normally I'm doing this sort of thing to firewall off or NAT the real host :)
[20:58] <lifeless> for that you need frox
[20:58] <lifeless> and we may need it for the second iteration
[21:00] <lifeless> I haven't put a plan together for the details there yet, because theres no point planning when we're as far out as we are from execution
[21:00] <mwhudson> jelmer: do you have a plan for converting existing mirror branches to bzr-code-import branches? (just curious)
[21:01] <jelmer> mwhudson: I was actually just looking at the numbers
[21:01] <mwhudson> jelmer: i have this old memory that says "roughly 3k mirrored branches"
[21:01] <lifeless> that was gnome wasn't it ?
[21:02] <mwhudson> possibly
[21:02] <jelmer> mwhudson: it's more like 2k
[21:02] <lifeless> we had a separate machine doing imports of gnome, and jelmer registered all of it one day
[21:02] <mwhudson> ah no, that was a lot more than 3k
[21:02] <jelmer> and there's about 300 remote branches
[21:03] <jelmer> lifeless: IIRC that was all code imports though, not mirrors
[21:03] <mwhudson> jelmer: i did some log grepping once and worked out that about 17 out of however many mirror puller runs actually imported anything in a week
[21:03] <cjwatson> wgrant: so I have a short while now if you want me to QA r14123; although I'll need help with dogfood setup
[21:04] <wgrant> cjwatson: I just updated it.
[21:04] <wgrant> Takes ~forever.
[21:04] <cjwatson> Will take or has taken?
[21:04] <wgrant> Has taken.
[21:05]  * wgrant dirties and publishes a PPA to start.
[21:05] <jelmer> mwhudson, lifeless: I don't have plans to work on converting all remaining mirror/remote branches to import branches, and am mainly focussing on bfbia at the moment. Do you think we should worry about converting the existing mirror/remote branches ?
[21:05] <mwhudson> jelmer: nah
[21:06] <mwhudson> bfbia seems more important
[21:07] <wgrant> cjwatson: Do we perhaps want to rsync the real primary archive's dists across?
[21:08] <lifeless> jelmer: mwhudson: what would conversion entail ?
[21:08] <mwhudson> i guess a bunch of fiddling -- db work to create a code import for each branch and change the type, an rsync script to prepare the staging area on escudero
[21:08] <lifeless> jelmer: mwhudson: I'm a -huge- fan of finishing things off, so unless its particularly hard, yes, I think we should finish the work.
[21:09] <wgrant> mwhudson: We don't actually need to populate the staging area, do we?
[21:09] <lifeless> mwhudson: won't the staging area auto-populate, same as a new import ?
[21:09] <wgrant> All we lose is a bit of pear time by not doing it.
[21:09] <mwhudson> wgrant: well no, but that would imply a reimport of everything
[21:09] <lifeless> mwhudson: known as a fetch :P
[21:09] <mwhudson> i guess it depends if any of the branches being mirrored are large
[21:09] <wgrant> Not cheap, but meh.
[21:09] <cjwatson> wgrant: I thought there was a plausible distroseries somewhere already with a forked hello package in it
[21:10] <mwhudson> mysql were using mirrored branches at one point... are they still?
[21:10] <wgrant> cjwatson: DF was erased a couple of weeks back.
[21:10] <mwhudson> (should assess disk space impact on escudero too i guess)
[21:10] <cjwatson> wgrant: what would rsyncing the real dists across achieve?  if we actually tried to modify any of those distroseries, surely LP would clobber them anyway
[21:10] <cjwatson> wgrant: oh, Translation-* custom uploads I suppose
[21:10] <wgrant> cjwatson: Well, we don't have ddtp files.
[21:10] <wgrant> Right.
[21:10] <cjwatson> yeah, that might be an OK plan
[21:10] <wgrant> But we can easily forge those, I guess.
[21:11] <cjwatson> real data wouldn't hurt
[21:11] <cjwatson> although I think the DS with include_long_descriptions=False was querulous or something?
[21:11] <jelmer> wgrant, mwhudson: some of the existing mirror branches have data but the location they mirror no longer exists. I think we should make sure that data is kept around.
[21:11] <lifeless> the risk of not completing the transition is that we have (yet another) ambiguous and stubby code area
[21:12] <wgrant> cjwatson: Right, but that's gone now.
[21:12] <wgrant> I'll have to upload something new.
[21:12] <lifeless> mwhudson: jelmer: can the imports *read* from b.l.n ?
[21:12] <wgrant> Or, well, copy it across.
[21:12] <wgrant> That would work too.
[21:12] <wgrant> But first I need to work out why the PPA publisher is trying to publish every PPA...
[21:12] <mwhudson> lifeless: probably
[21:12] <mwhudson> lifeless: not sure though, they don't currently
[21:13] <lifeless> so one way you could solve this is to clone from b.l.n to escudero if the branch is populated and no staging area exists
[21:13] <jelmer> lifeless: at the moment they only read from the data dir on escudero AFAIK
[21:13] <lifeless> given all imports are public
[21:13] <jelmer> are imports necessarily public?
[21:13] <lifeless> today, yes.
[21:14] <lifeless> (mwhudson will shout out if I'm wrong :P)
[21:15] <jelmer> hmmok, I've been working on the assumption that they aren't necessarily public (which should only be a good thing for the future)
[21:15] <mwhudson> i'm not sure imports are necessarily public
[21:16] <mwhudson> i think they probably *are* though
[21:16] <mwhudson> there was a bug about them at some point
[21:16] <wgrant> 2011-10-09 21:16:18 DEBUG   Writing Index file for maverick/main/i18n
[21:16] <wgrant> Let's see if it actually did anything...
[21:16] <mwhudson> yay bug search
[21:16] <wgrant> ppa:launchpad/ppa, this is.
[21:17] <wgrant> No index there, which sounds right.
[21:18] <cjwatson> That's a buglet - it shouldn't log that until it's sure it's actually going to do so.
[21:19] <cjwatson> Not fatal though
[21:19] <lifeless>  private | count
[21:19] <lifeless> ---------+-------
[21:19] <lifeless>  f       |  5593
[21:19] <lifeless>  t       |     5
[21:19] <lifeless> there are 5 private imports.
[21:20] <lifeless> mwhudson: jelmer: however, as the import *details* are public (IIRC) this is a bit strange.
[21:20] <wgrant> cjwatson: Bah, mawson can't connect to rsync on (rsync.)archive.ubuntu.com, and cocoplum's rsyncd forbids it.
[21:20]  * wgrant creates fake files.
[21:20] <mwhudson> lifeless: how so?  if the branch is private, how are you going to see the details?
[21:21] <lifeless> mwhudson: only if the codeimport, which is directly traversable inherits the privacy rule
[21:21] <mwhudson> lifeless: are you talking about api access?
[21:22] <lifeless> mwhudson: well, maybe its changed, but imports used to have their own url
[21:22] <lifeless> anyhow
[21:22] <lifeless> all 5 have public source urls
[21:22] <lifeless> I believe the only reason they are private is they were created on private-by-default projects
[21:22] <mwhudson> lifeless: that changed a _long_ time ago
[21:22] <mwhudson> yeah, i agree
[21:22] <jelmer> lifeless: how many private mirror branches?
[21:23] <lifeless> jelmer: give me the query to id mirror branches and I'll tell you
[21:23] <mwhudson> lifeless: branch_type = ... 2?
[21:24] <mwhudson> yes, 2
[21:25] <lifeless>  private | count
[21:25] <lifeless> ---------+-------
[21:25] <lifeless>  f       |  2112
[21:25] <lifeless> (1 row)
[21:25] <lifeless> (0)
[21:25] <mwhudson> \o/
[21:26] <lifeless> need to make sure we don't permit by-id direct-apache access to the importds (would permit public imports of random private branches), but other than that, letting importds read from b.l.n makes a lot of sense to me anyway
[21:26] <lifeless> e.g. to remove the staging area for imports that don't need it
[21:26] <mwhudson> unless things have changed a bunch, we don't provide by id access to the importds
[21:27] <lifeless> right, and shouldn't
[21:27] <mwhudson> it's locked down to crowberry itself & loganberry by ip address
[21:27] <wgrant> It's forbidden in Apache, and the opener should forbid it too.
[21:27] <lifeless> I was just saying we need to keep it closed :)
[21:28] <lifeless> I'd like to remove the importd non-xmlrpc-api code from the codebase
[21:29] <wgrant> We can finally revoke DB access from the importds once we have a rabbit OOPS transport :)
[21:30] <mwhudson> yes, that was a disappointing discovery
[21:30] <lifeless> mwhudson: what that ?
[21:30] <mwhudson> i did a bunch of work so we could revoke db access from the importds
[21:30] <mwhudson> and then oops-prune fell over :-)
[21:36] <cjwatson> wgrant: well, let me know if there's something I can actually do to help, or whether I'll just blunder around and get in the way :-)
[21:36] <wgrant> cjwatson: Well, I know mostly what I'm doing here, so QA on dogfood mostly involves sitting around and watching bzr st bring it into 50% iowait.
[21:37] <cjwatson> OK
[21:37]  * wgrant is beginning to think that there may actually be something wrong with mawson.
[21:38] <wgrant> 2011-10-09 21:37:40 DEBUG   Publishing custom translations_multiverse_20110922.tar.gz to ubuntu/oneiric
[21:38] <wgrant> We should now have some files.
[22:00] <cjwatson> wgrant: OK, well, I'm off to bed; I see publish-distro is running, so if it looks like it's all gone wrong in the next couple of hours, feel free to SMS me (number's in the directory)
[22:01] <wgrant> cjwatson: I'll hopefully sort it out if stuff does go wrong :)
[22:01] <wgrant> Night, and thanks for fixing this quickly!
[22:02] <cjwatson> The knowledge that it will be worse not to fix it quickly is a wonderful incentive.
[22:02] <wgrant> That's true.
[22:10] <lifeless> wgrant: ians work may be a candidate
[22:10] <lifeless> wgrant: the queries are consulting both private and transitively_private
[22:11] <wgrant> lifeless: Yes, I noticed that.
[22:11] <lifeless> not to mention that its buggy
[22:12] <wgrant> All attempts to implement sensible privacy on top of non-sensible privacy have so far been buggy.
[22:12] <wgrant> So of course it is buggy.
[22:12] <lifeless> branches that are only transitively private and owned by the viewer won't be shown
[22:12] <lifeless> well, specifically buggy
[22:13] <mwhudson> yeah, i was wondering about that, surely all checks should be for transitively_private ?
[22:14] <lifeless> yes
[22:22] <wgrant> cjwatson: Get Translation files ...
[22:22] <wgrant> [  0%] Getting: dists/oneiric/main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2ok
[22:22] <wgrant> [  0%] Getting: dists/oneiric/multiverse/i18n/Translation-bg.bz2ok
[22:23] <wgrant> cjwatson: debmirror is even happy with the output.
[22:25] <cjwatson> awesome!
[22:26] <cjwatson> looks fine visually too.
[22:26] <wgrant> Yep.
[22:27] <wgrant> Hm. LP derived distros are going to be published at derived.archive.ubuntu.com? :/
[22:27] <wgrant> That seems a bit odd.
[22:27]  * cjwatson is uncomfortable with that.
[22:27] <wgrant> Yes.
[22:27] <wgrant> Just a bit.
[22:28]  * wgrant will convince Julian that it's a terrible idea tonight.
[22:28] <elmo> wgrant: reference?
[22:28] <elmo> nm, got it
[22:28] <wgrant> In the DD RT.
[22:28]  * wgrant just closed it.
[22:28] <wgrant> eg. https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=48314
[22:29]  * elmo reopens
[22:29] <lifeless> wgrant: you closed the url, or the ticket ?
[22:29] <elmo> well, not that
[22:29] <wgrant> Er.
[22:29] <wgrant> I mean I closed the tab.
[22:29] <wgrant> So didn't have the URL handy.
[22:30] <lifeless> ma
[22:30] <lifeless> man
[22:31] <lifeless> i get disproportionately annoyed by 'N time has passed, whats up' in bugs.
[22:31] <wgrant> Well, in their defense the bzr upgrade is taking its time :)
[22:31] <wallyworld_> lifeless: just saw your comments about transitively_private. all queries are supposed to look only at transitively_private. if any still look at private, that's a bug and needs to be fixed. do you have an example?
[22:31] <elmo> lifeless: paste large chunks of some random dude's biography as a reply
[22:31] <lifeless> wallyworld_: the OOPS referenced in #launchpad
[22:31] <wgrant> elmo: Thanks.
[22:31] <elmo> "what's up?  well, let me tell you..."
[22:31] <wgrant> elmo: I didn't see this name until today either.
[22:31] <lifeless> wgrant: I meant in bug 294159
[22:32] <wgrant> I wonder where it was discussed.
[22:32] <lifeless> (naming - me neither)
[22:32] <wgrant> "not", I guess.
[22:32] <wallyworld_> thanks. i'll look. and fix it. it was meant to be s/private/transitively_private
[22:32] <wgrant> Let's not make the PPA mistake again, either.
[22:32] <wgrant> lifeless: Oh, a different one.
[22:32] <wgrant> lifeless: I see.
[22:32] <elmo> upload?  yeah
[22:33] <wgrant> elmo: I mean having stuff under launchpad.net.
[22:33] <wgrant> And that too.
[22:33] <wallyworld_> lifeless: bollocks. can you paste to oops num. i had been disconnected from #launchpad for some reason
[22:33] <lifeless> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2108CP126
[22:33] <wgrant> wallyworld_: https://pastebin.canonical.com/54081 is a query
[22:34] <wallyworld_> thanks
[22:40] <wallyworld_> lifeless: why is the oops shown as being linked to an old bug 638924?
[22:42] <lifeless> because that correlation generates many false positives
[22:42] <wgrant> StevenK: Around yet?
[22:43] <wallyworld_> ok. i'll raise a bug to fix the query column. the timeout is a separate issue which won't be affected by using the correct column
[22:43] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Why not?
[22:43] <wgrant> wallyworld_: It'll have to query two indices, separately.
[22:44] <wgrant> It may very well negatively influence the plan.
[22:44] <wallyworld_> perhaps. but sad if that's the case. poor reflection on postgres
[22:45] <wgrant> Only slightly.
[22:45] <wallyworld_> a decent db should be able to efficiently query on two indexed boolean columns
[22:46] <wgrant> On large, skewed tables, where the query was optimised for a single one?
[22:47] <wallyworld_> i'm not familar with postgres's query optimisation so am not sure
[22:51] <wgrant> Let's delete Launchpad and start again.
[22:57] <wgrant> Changes that will be made are A) destroying bug heat, B) making bug subscription queries not terrible.
[22:57] <wgrant> lifeless: can you explanalyse 'SELECT Bug.heat FROM Bug, Bugtask, Product WHERE Bugtask.bug = Bug.id AND Bugtask.product = Product.id AND Product.project IS NOT NULL AND Product.project = 82 ORDER BY Bug.heat DESC LIMIT 1' on qastaging?
[22:58] <lifeless> wallyworld_: so, querying on two unrelated indices requires either A) a hash join on the indices or B) a bitmap join on the indices
[22:58] <lifeless> wallyworld_: A) is done by generating the hash during processing, and B) requires reading every row in the index
[22:59] <lifeless> wallyworld_: the only other form of join I'm aware of that could benefit is nested loops, and I've never seen postgresql do that within one table
[22:59] <lifeless> wallyworld_: lastly, for any DB, using more indices (usually) implies more potential disk IO (and usually random at that), which the planner will avoid as its costly
[23:00] <lifeless> wallyworld_: so yes, using two separate fields that are index separately is both more costly (in theory) and a candidate for causing performance issues
[23:01] <wallyworld_> sure, but surely it could narrow the results by using each index sequentially. there are lots of queries we do which use more than one indexed column
[23:03] <lifeless> yes, but check the plans - pg picks one index and runs with it
[23:03] <lifeless> wallyworld_: some reasons for this are that indices can't tell you liveness of rows - you have to consult the table itself, and that cross-index statistics are (AFAIK) not well defined
[23:04] <wallyworld_> ok
[23:04] <lifeless> wallyworld_: mostly though, its the liveness I suspect: finding the candidate rows from the most selective index means you'll be reading the actual rows to do that; and checking a field in those rows is usually about as cheap or much cheaper than paging in index pages from a separate index
[23:05] <lifeless> now, the math says that in very large tables with lopsided data (which we have) that the CPU time will become more expensive than the time to grab a second index and refine, but I suspect its so marginal that the planner code doesn't even permit it
[23:06] <lifeless> if someone were to do a N-index without-consulting-the-rows filter, that would likely be more useful
[23:07] <wallyworld_> so you seem to be implying we could run into issues for *any* query which filters on more than one indexed column
[23:07] <lifeless> wallyworld_: we do
[23:07] <wallyworld_> which seems absurd!
[23:07] <lifeless> wallyworld_: its particularly bad on very big tables (like BPPH and SPPH)
[23:07] <wallyworld_> that a db can't handle that scenario
[23:08] <lifeless> wallyworld_: for precision: queries which filter on more than one column, where the most selective index is not very selective, in big tables, will have issues
[23:08] <lifeless> wallyworld_: the db provides tools like N-column indices to handle such scenarioes
[23:08] <wallyworld_> sure
[23:09] <lifeless> wallyworld_: bitmap filters across multiple indices are great for hot-indices in moderate size tables
[23:09] <wallyworld_> in this case, private|transitively_private = true is very selective
[23:09] <wgrant> But that's two indices.
[23:09] <wallyworld_> yes, and to me the db should be good at that, but it seems not so
[23:10] <lifeless> wallyworld_: profiling in db's is the same as in regular code: unless you measure, you can't predict reliably.
[23:11] <lifeless> wallyworld_: saying 'should' here is something I guess I object to: if someone writes the code to model the costs reliably, from table stats, then they can write the executor, and away we go.
[23:12] <lifeless> wallyworld_: but in the absence of a model, we can't even say *hypothetically* that it should be good at it.
[23:14] <wallyworld_> sure. i have no knowledge of how postgres' stats are calculated or how we have parameterised the analysis engine
[23:15] <wallyworld_> past experience with oracle != postgres clearly
[23:15] <lifeless> wallyworld_: we have 450K branches in the system; the indices are 10MB each, we have 22K private branches - hugely lopsided - so in principle the performance question is, is 'how expensive is consulting 22K rows of a cold index'
[23:15] <lifeless> wallyworld_: oracle itself is also sensitive and needs continual review and tuning, different precise rules but similar issues, from my experience
[23:16] <lifeless> bottom line is, you can't assume anything is fast until its been tested - both for python and for postgresql; things will always surprise us
[23:16] <wallyworld_> yes
[23:18] <wallyworld_> i know how lopsided the private branches numbers are. you wouldn't expect looking at "only" 22k rows from a cold index would be too bad, but you never can tell
[23:18] <lifeless> fwiw - doing the query wgrant asked about above on bugs
[23:18] <lifeless> which chose a nested loop plan, examining 27K bugs
[23:19] <lifeless> took 25 seconds
[23:19] <lifeless> you're looking at 1-2ms per row when IO is involved
[23:19] <lifeless> so I expect that looking at 22k rows in a cold index to be moderately painful at best.
[23:47] <wgrant> lifeless: Why do we have an haproxy status page on each service, rather than just closing the listener?
[23:51] <wgrant> Seems like it would be much easier if processes just closed their listener and died when there were no connections left.
[23:51] <wgrant> Rather than the haproxy dance in appserver initscripts, and adding an HTTP listener to every service.


[04:02] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:49] <wez> Evening lotuspsychje!
[15:31] <matt3> hello
[15:32] <matt3> i don't like emacs ...
[15:32] <murmel> yeah I also don't like the OS
[15:33] <matt3> too difficult 4 nothing => nano + pico ... peace ...
[15:33] <matt3> the os is ok
[15:33] <matt3> i apologize ... ;D
[15:36] <matt3> a lovely app is pine but no on gmail ... we could try with pop3 + smtp ... but ttl !@#%
[15:40] <matt3> cu ... ;D
[19:06] <tommix> Hello there! My Ubuntu works so well that it is almost boring. No reasons to fix it, cos it ain't broken in any ways!
[19:19] <tomreyn> sorry to hear this, are you sure you looked hard enough?
[19:21] <Jeremy31> They haven't tinkered enough
[19:22] <tommix> Just give me some ideas where to seek some faults of Ubuntu installation. :-)
[19:23] <tomreyn> try bugs.launchpad.net or read some blog posts about "incorrect ubuntu desktop icon color scheme" or the like
[19:24] <tomreyn> there are enough people who can find *something*, so you can, too!
[19:42] <tommix> :-)


[23:16] <Eagleman> ANy suggestion for a webbases dropbox like file browser ( smb is a requirement ), i tried owncloud but smb is not working with it.
[23:16] <bubba99> kunji ok i will stay online but thanks for your help so far. i feel like im making some progress
[23:23] <remontees> :D
[23:25] <iFlip> Does anyone know where Plex Media Server is located in Ubuntu - the config files and such. Plex channel was no help.
[23:28] <Note_> what kind of mail will i need to have to be able to send/receive from hotmail/googlemail
[23:28] <Note_> imap or pop3?
[23:30] <blkadder> Note_: An MTA sends/receives mail. A MUA lets you look at it/manipulate. IMAP/POP3 are the latter.
[23:31] <qualia> how do I get the device names with the hd0-1-2-3.. convention
[23:31] <qualia> I have two different drives sda and sdb
[23:31] <blkadder> You need an MTA such as Postfix or Sendmail(ick) to send/receive the mail itself.
[23:32] <qualia> hdd and sdd but I'm not sure whether the SSD(sdb) is hd0 or hd1
[23:32] <Note_> ah, thank you blkadder
[23:32] <Note_> If I install Postfix I also need something such as Dovecot and Cyrus to be able to actually use it?
[23:33] <Note_> Will this allow me to add my mail to something such as the Mail app on my Mac?
[23:33] <blkadder> To read the mail, yes.
[23:33] <blkadder> Not strictly speaking but if you want to use an IMAP or POP3 compatible mail client then yes...
[23:34] <Note_> Hm, thank you, if I run into any more problems I'll ask :)
[23:34] <qualia> okay researching it for around 20 seconds gave me the answer, sorry for attempting to steal your time lol
[23:36] <jrogge> hi, I'm running ubuntu 12.04 with gnome3 and I want to change the icons that appear when I change something like volume or screen brightness, but I want to keep all the other icons of the theme I'm using (Ubuntu-mono-dark) I imagine it would just be replacing certain images, but I'm not sure what to do. I've looked through /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark but I'm not sure which folder the icons I want to change are going to be. Does anyon
[23:40] <jrogge> I'm looking through /usr/etc/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/status and it shows icons for things like volume-low, medium, high, but they are different from what is showing up when I physically change the volume through fn-f12 or other hot-keys
[23:42] <thedark12> Okay I installed qt 4.7 on ubuntu 10.04 through the command line because I need it for anki 2.0
[23:43] <thedark12> But when I try to open Anki it still says qt4.7 is required
[23:43] <thedark12> What can I do to make Anki recognize my new qt install?
[23:43] <ubuntu-tester> why kernel headers are installed by default? why non-tech user would need them?
[23:44] <Note_> Could someone explain this to me? I ran free -m
[23:45] <Note_> http://i.imgur.com/Aaq2EYG.png
[23:45] <jrogge> This is odd, I changed theme to Humanity and the icons under /usr/share/icons/Humanity/status are the ones that appear, but the ones that appear when my theme is ubuntu-mono-dark are not the icons in /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/status
[23:45] <Note_> Its a 512MB VPS
[23:45] <jrogge> should I ask on the forum?
[23:46] <we6jbo> Hi
[23:46] <we6jbo> I have a question
[23:46] <Glowball> Note_: What is to explain about that?
[23:46] <blami> Note_: what part you do not understand (after reading 'free' manpage')?
[23:46] <ubuntu-tester> Note_: maybe it's really a 496Mb VPS? )
[23:47] <Note_> Does that mean that there is 28MB free out of the 512MB?
[23:47] <jrogge> or should I just play around with icons and see which, when switched, appears?
[23:47] <we6jbo> Will Ubuntu warn me if my harddrive space is getting low (I have only something like 18GB on this computer) or is there a unility that will tell me when harddrive space is getting low?
[23:48] <GetCodeMonkey> I am looking for a version of Linux to replace my Windows with and I needed to know if Ubuntu would support my configuration. Thus far every version of Linux I have tried I have found lacking features I required without heavy modification I just don't feel like doing. My main issue is I run a three monitor set up and out of the box install I can't seem to find a version that easily supports it
[23:48] <nightfly> we6jbo: It should bark at you when you run low on space
[23:48] <Glowball> Note_: There is 427MB free, of which the largest part is used by cache to make Ubuntu load apps faster you had open recently :)
[23:48] <Glowball> There is only 69MB *actually* in use
[23:48] <Note_> Ah right, I was confused haha, under 'free' it says 28MB o_o
[23:49] <Note_> but then it says -/+ buffers/cache
[23:49] <blami> Note_: that's because of how linux (kernel) works with memory
[23:50] <we6jbo> Yeah I know. a long time ago I was using either Ubuntu or Debian and I ran out of space to the point where the system wasn't able to load properly
[23:50] <Note_> Ah right, I'm new to Linux, sorry about noob questions :P
[23:50] <ubuntu-tester> GetCodeMonkey: have you tried Quantal?
[23:50] <blami> Note_: well at least it's good noob question that makes sense :)
[23:50] <GetCodeMonkey> Looking for a version that has LTS
[23:50] <Note_> :D
[23:51] <blami> GetCodeMonkey: only think what can I say on your matter is the fact that the Ubuntu works best out of box on my laptop
[23:51] <ubuntu-tester> GetCodeMonkey: what problems have you faced with Precise?
[23:51] <blami> GetCodeMonkey: but three monitors may be a problem esp. in case you have Optimus setup
[23:52] <nightfly> we6jbo: That's why they recommend different partitions for different parts of the system. At least seperate home from the rest
[23:52] <GetCodeMonkey> Mainly everything I have tried tha Nvidia video manager will not let me set up all the monitors
[23:53] <GetCodeMonkey> When I do get them to finally show up after playing in the config I can't position them properly
[23:53] <GetCodeMonkey> I have been trying for a few weeks to get a set up that works. I was surprised I have been able to do it in Windows since XP. I never thought I would have so much trouble getting Linux to reconize it.
[23:53] <GetCodeMonkey> I have tried Ubuntu, Mint, Arch, and many more
[23:54] <nightfly> Graphics drivers are hard, and their isn't enough cooperation from the manufactures to get it exactly right.
[23:54] <nightfly> s/their/there/
[23:55] <thedark12> I installed tha latest qt manually on ubuntu 10.04 but Software that requires it doesnt recognize that I have and wont open
[23:56] <jrogge> I think I'm just going to use humanity, then change around the icons and report back when I figure it out
[23:57] <GetCodeMonkey> Hmm. I will just try 12.04 again and see if I can't trick it into working
[23:57] <GetCodeMonkey> I had it working once but completely screwed it up
[23:58] <popsch> I just used do-release-upgrade to jump from maverick -> natty -> oneiric -> precise. the machine is booting and it seems to work. still, is there something that I need to cleanup manually?
[23:58] <kostkon> popsch, just give a:  sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get autoclean


 LOOK NO FURTHER THAN #UBUNTU A CHANNEL FULL OF DUMB NIGGERS THAT DON'T KNOW SHIT!!
[04:57] <Spitfire499> jblz_ Dominionionion maxolasersquad keen ahoneybun meetingology danstoner jose stickystyle_ mhall119 roaksoax Bryanstein KeithIMyers ubuntulog2 ubuntulog
[14:55] <danstoner> That.was.fantastic
[14:55] <danstoner> How are folks enjoying 18.04 ?
[17:37] <maxolasersquad> I'm enjoying it a lot more than Spitfire apparently. :/


[00:01] <hallyn> bleh
[00:01] <hallyn> pod2man: unable to format script/dh_systemd_start.1p
[00:01] <hallyn> pod2man: unable to format script/running-in-container
[00:01] <hallyn> debian/rules:17: recipe for target 'override_dh_auto_build' failed
[00:03] <hallyn> after dinner
[03:10] <hallyn> interesting - upstart simply will not build on vivid with systemd.  make check fails
[04:40] <arges> hallyn: i think i simply forgot about that bug.
[04:44] <pitti> hallyn: so far we didn't need that, as there's ConditionVirtualization=
[04:44] <pitti> ah, infinity already pointed to that
[04:44] <pitti> that's for units, and systemd-detect-virt for scripts
[04:45] <pitti> both of which are upstream, so we can eventually stop having the ubuntu specific container-detect.conf
[07:50] <seb128> mvo, bdmurray, hey, is bug #1356823 something you are looking at? It's ranked issue n°1 on e.u.c for vivid
[07:59] <Odd_Bloke> dannf: Can you confirm that http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/vivid/current/vivid-server-cloudimg-arm64-uefi1.img boots as you expect?
[08:00] <Odd_Bloke> I've just tested it locally and it booted uninterrupted, but confirmation would be appreciated. :)
[08:02] <seb128> Riddell, hey, bug #1442512 seems recent, maybe something wrong with your qt5 migration
[08:03] <mvo> seb128: let me check
[08:03] <seb128> mvo, danke
[08:19] <Riddell> thanks seb128
[08:19] <seb128> Riddell, yw!
[08:34] <seb128> mvo, thanks for the fix ;-)
[08:35] <mvo> seb128: thanks for raising the issue
[08:35] <seb128> mvo, yw :-)
[08:50] <LocutusOfBorg1> good morning
[08:50] <Unit193> It'sabork.
[09:18] <Odd_Bloke> I just hit "W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com vivid-updates Release: Unknown error executing gpgv"; anyone have any ideas what might be causing that?
[09:18] <Odd_Bloke> (This is on a now-destroyed automated testing instance, so I can't do any poking around)
[09:42] <pitti> tseliot: I'm fixing the ubuntu-drivers-common autopkgtests
[09:42] <pitti> tseliot: is there an fglrx bug to track "known to not work with current vivid kernel/X.org" that I shouldl reference?
[09:44] <tseliot> pitti: I think users file new bug reports about it every time
[09:44] <pitti> ok
[09:44] <pitti> tseliot: I just mark the two as expected failures for now, and fixed the others
[09:50] <tseliot> pitti: fglrx shouldn't fail in vivid though. What's going on?
[10:02] <pmjdebruijn> hi folks, I've been using live-build to make custom ISOs, which works reasonably well... however they do differ from official generated images in unexpected ways... genisoimage is used instead of xorriso for example
[10:03] <pmjdebruijn> can anybody here shed some light on how official ubuntu ISOs are generated?
[10:03]  * LocutusOfBorg1 hugs ginggs
[10:04] <ogra_> pmjdebruijn, live-build is only used for generating the rootfs (squashfs in case of the desktop isos) ... we have a master tool called cdimage that takes these rootfses and pipes them into debian-cd ... debian-cd then turns them into bootable images
[10:05] <pmjdebruijn> aha
[10:05] <ogra_> our configs for live-build live in the livecd-rootfs package btw
[10:05] <pmjdebruijn> right
[10:05] <pmjdebruijn> the live-build generated ISOs mis EFI support for example
[10:05] <pmjdebruijn> ogra_: is there more documentation on that process, so I can replicate it?
[10:05] <ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage
[10:06] <ogra_> it isnt well documented beyond the source sadly, the setup is rather complex
[10:07] <pmjdebruijn> ogra_: thanks for the hints
[10:07] <caribou> debfx: would you have time to sponsor a backport to precise for openafs ? you've done the previous one
[10:07]  * pmjdebruijn wonders if it'll be a better option to hack a bit on live-build :)
[10:09] <tseliot> LocutusOfBorg1: I have just uploaded the fix for fglrx in utopic-proposed. The SRU team will have to approve it though
[10:13] <pmjdebruijn> on another sidenote, anybody a clue why fonts-crosextra-caladea fonts-crosextra-carlito aren't included by default?
[10:15] <pmjdebruijn> they are compatibility fonts (similar in concept to the Liberation fonts), but they replace Calibri/Cambria, which are popular in modern docx files
[10:21] <pitti> tseliot: oh, not? well, the driver fails to build
[10:22] <rbasak> pmjdebruijn: file a bug against the libreoffice package to recommend them, perhaps?
[10:23] <tseliot> pitti: do you have any logs?
[10:23] <pitti> tseliot: it was hidden by another error in the tests (apt slightly changed behaviour apparently), but with that fixed they fail
[10:23] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks tseliot
[10:23] <pitti> tseliot: building manually, hang on
[10:23] <tseliot> LocutusOfBorg1: np
[10:24] <tseliot> pitti: ok. BTW it's the fglrx-core that builds the modules, not fglrx any more
[10:25] <pmjdebruijn> rbasak: possibly, I was wondering if there was a general font-inclusion council or something? :)
[10:25] <pitti> tseliot: oh! then I figure the test needs to be adjusted to that
[10:26] <tseliot> pitti: right :)
[10:26]  * pitti does that then
[10:26] <pitti> oh, and please let's not paper over this by adding force-badtest in britney, please
[10:31] <tseliot> ?
[10:32] <pitti> tseliot: such a test override was added by the release team when u-d-c started failing
[10:32] <tseliot> pitti: oh, ok
[10:36] <dholbach> @pilot in
[10:37] <rbasak> pmjdebruijn: no idea. Ask in #ubuntu-desktop maybe?
[10:48] <pitti> tseliot: ok, all fixed, and uploaded
[10:49] <tseliot> pitti: thanks!
[10:52] <LocutusOfBorg1> dholbach, hi, do you think I can ask to merge transmission/experimental?
[10:52] <LocutusOfBorg1> it has finally fixed the systemd transition
[10:52] <LocutusOfBorg1> https://packages.qa.debian.org/t/transmission/news/20150410T103425Z.html
[10:54] <dholbach> LocutusOfBorg1, hum... Unable to find transmission in Debian suite "experimental".
[10:55] <dholbach> ah, incoming
[10:56] <dholbach> LocutusOfBorg1, sure - feel free to merge it!
[11:04] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks :)
[11:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> I don't think the actual transmission can rebuild in vivid clean environment
[11:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> pitti, did libsystemd-daemon-dev still exist in vivid?
[11:08] <pitti> LocutusOfBorg1: it still does, yes (although deprecated)
[11:08] <LocutusOfBorg1> I have some code that does sd_notify and on debian I add -lsystemd, on utopic -lsystemd-daemon
[11:09] <LocutusOfBorg1> what on vivid?
[11:09] <pitti> LocutusOfBorg1: libsystemd-dev and -lsystemd are preferred
[11:09] <LocutusOfBorg1> on utopic doesn't work :(
[11:09] <pitti> LocutusOfBorg1: libsystemd-daemon-dev is just for backwards compat
[11:09] <pitti> LocutusOfBorg1: no, but we are talking about vivid here, don't we?
[11:10] <LocutusOfBorg1> wonderful, so after utopic systemd will be really unified
[11:10] <LocutusOfBorg1> I like it
[11:24] <LocutusOfBorg1> wow a new systemd upload! :)
[11:28] <mbiebl> LocutusOfBorg1: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org;tag=libsystemd
[11:32] <LocutusOfBorg1> yes mbiebl; I was looking at debian 763297 already
[11:45] <mgedmin> cyphermox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/1442586 looks like one for you (according to seb128)
[12:13] <nemo> http://www.bq.com/fr/ubuntu.html  *sigh*
[12:13] <nemo> EU only
[12:23] <ogra_> nemo, where would you want it beyond that ?
[12:23] <ogra_> the radio is limited to EU frequencies
[12:25] <nemo> there are EU-specific frequencies? O_o
[12:26] <nemo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands huh...
[12:26] <nemo> guess all my other phones work across any bands
[12:26] <nemo> anyway. doesn't seem to be EU exclusive
[12:26] <nemo> "In Africa, Europe, Middle East and Asia, most of the providers use 900 MHz and 1800 MHz bands."
[12:27] <shadeslayer> mvo: pokety poke @ kubuntu-core :(
[12:27] <ogra_> well, the point is you can only get 2G in the US with it
[12:27] <nemo> 2G GSM (850/900/1800/1900)
[12:27] <nemo> 3G HSPA+ (900/2100)
[12:27] <nemo> off the phone specs
[12:27] <nemo> so. GSM-1900 is used in US and Canada according to that wikipedia page
[12:28] <nemo> ah. 2G. eh. who cares
[12:28] <nemo> still take it
[12:28] <ogra_> btw, #ubuntu-touch is our phone channel
[12:29] <nemo> anyway. looks like it really is "Works in most of world for 3G, and Americas for 2G" so that doesn't quite the same as "EU only"
[12:29] <nemo> m'k. thanks.
[12:29] <ogra_> well, there is that FCC thingie too :)
[12:30] <nemo> again that seems to presuppose the world consists of US and EU
[12:30]  * nemo shrugs
[12:31] <nemo> anyway. what I gather is that it probably would work if I ordered it
[12:31] <ogra_> i think someone said he spotted one or two on ebay
[12:35] <Sweet5hark> Hi, Im looking for someone from the ubuntu-sru team. This one should actually be rather easy: can you drop the pending LibreOffice 4.2.8/trusty update?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:4.2.8-0ubuntu1
[12:35]  * Sweet5hark hopes that dropping an SRU is easier than approving one ...
[12:37] <pmjdebruijn> anything wrong with that?
[12:42] <Sweet5hark> pmjdebruijn: are you asking about the libreoffice SRU?
[12:43] <pmjdebruijn> yes (though I'm not from the ubuntu-sru team, just a curious bystander)
[12:46] <Sweet5hark> pmjdebruijn: nothing wrong with the package itself functionally, just the changelog has a misleading line and I try to avoid LTS people to have needlessly too many updates as a new one will be there soon ...
[12:46] <pmjdebruijn> ah cool :)
[12:47] <pmjdebruijn> btw, tnx for your work on the lovely libreoffice ppas :)
[12:52] <Sweet5hark> yeah, those are for the guys who cant get enough updates ;)
[12:52] <pmjdebruijn> hehe
[12:53] <pmjdebruijn> well, for some applications it's rather nice to get out-of-band updates for file format compatibility and such
[12:54] <pmjdebruijn> Sweet5hark: on a different note, slightly abusing the situation, now you're here, are you aware of fonts-crosextra-caladea and fonts-crosextra-carlito? they might be nice Recommends for libreoffice
[12:56] <LocutusOfBorg1> why pbuilder-dist vivid has upstart installed^
[12:56] <LocutusOfBorg1> ?
[12:56] <LocutusOfBorg1> pitti, ^^^ :)
[12:56] <fionnan> anyone know of a good guide for using docker on ubuntu snappy?
[12:56] <Sweet5hark> pmjdebruijn: on libreoffice 4.4 packages those are Suggests of libreoffice-writer ...
[12:57] <LocutusOfBorg1> I was trying to undestand why sid has no cpio by default and ubuntu has, and upstart seems to be the clue
[12:57] <pmjdebruijn> Sweet5hark: oh? doesn't everybody ignore Suggests? I really meant Recommends though :)
[12:58] <pmjdebruijn> they are very very nice to have installed if one comes across docx files
[12:58] <mitya57> Recommends will mean pulling those fonts into the desktop images, which will increase their size
[12:58] <pmjdebruijn> is that currently a significant issue? considering the 700MB boundary has already been crossed?
[13:00] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/ maybe?
[13:00] <pmjdebruijn> those two font package can be very helpful in making "document look right" on ubuntu by default
[13:01] <pmjdebruijn> and they will add less than 3MB uncompressed
[13:01] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: sorry that was for fionnan
[13:01] <davmor2> fionnan: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/
[13:02] <fionnan> davmor2: cheers
[13:02] <davmor2> fionnan: no guarantee but it's a good place to start
[13:03] <fionnan> davmor2: yup, I've read through most of those docs and they're really helpful, just a bit stuck trying to get docker to load a file now
[13:05] <fionnan> incidentally, I think I've found a mistake in the documentation here https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/
[13:06] <fionnan> I think this line `ec2-import-keypair -f ~/.ssh/snappy-rsa snappy-key`
[13:06] <fionnan> should be `ec2-import-keypair -f ~/.ssh/snappy-rsa.pub snappy-key`
[13:07] <davmor2> fionnan: there should be a report an issue button on the bottom of the page that should take you to launchpad with the page details in the bug
[13:08] <fionnan> davmor2: thanks, found it!
[13:10] <pmjdebruijn> Sweet5hark, mitya57 those extra fonts are particularly valuable in business environments
[13:15] <mitya57> pmjdebruijn: Please read https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps carefully.
[13:15] <mitya57> These fonts packages are the exact case for "Suggests"
[13:21] <rbasak> One use case for the libreoffice package is to provide an equivalent for MS Office. If the fonts provide the equivalent of defaults for Word, then maybe " The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations." is justified?
[13:22] <rbasak> Use case "I receive an emailed .docx and expect it to open and print identically as it appeared to the sender".
[13:25] <seb128> dpm, pitti, do you know if there is an issue with the vivid langpack? they didn't get an update for a while, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-gnome-fr for example is from 20150316
[13:26] <fionnan> anyone know if there is a channel for snappy noobs to ask for help?
[13:26] <pmjdebruijn> rbasak: yes, @use-case, that's exactly what everybody expects
[13:27] <rbasak> pmjdebruijn: if a bug doesn't already exist, I suggest you file one and make your case there.
[13:28] <pmjdebruijn> fair enough
[13:28] <pmjdebruijn> against libreoffice then, right?
[13:29] <rbasak> Yes
[13:30] <rbasak> I suggest you cover in detail the bits that you're summarised here. Eg. the default font as will appear on a .docx.
[13:31] <dpm> seb128, I don't know, I've be been a bit out of touch with langpacks lately, sorry
[13:31] <dpm> fionnan, indeed there is, try #snappy
[13:31] <seb128> dpm, no worry
[13:31] <fionnan> thank dpm!
[13:31] <fionnan> s/thank/thanks/
[13:31] <seb128> dpm, btw it might be worth pointing the translators the click store categories, I did it to the -fr team and they already translated those ;-)
[13:32] <cjwatson> seb128: There was a problem with the langpacks key being out of date on the keyserver - pitti fixed that, but I don't know if there's been a retried upload since
[13:32] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, thanks, who can retry? is that a pitti thing?
[13:33] <dpm> seb128, I know, it's back on my list after you and ogra were looking at the template yesterday, but busy day today
[13:33] <cjwatson> seb128: Not as simple as a retry, apparently ...
[13:33] <cjwatson> 2015-04-06 05:23:32 INFO    Failed to parse changes file '/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/upload-ftp-20150406-052225-005790/ubuntu-rtm/language-pack-touch-ast_14.10+rtm14.09+20150405_source.changes': GPG verification of /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/upload-ftp-20150406-052225-005790/ubuntu-rtm/language-pack-touch-ast_14.10+rtm14.09+20150405_source.changes failed: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 153, u'Key ...
[13:33] <cjwatson> ... expired')", "(7, 153, u'Key expired')", "(7, 153, u'Key expired')"]
[13:33] <seb128> :-(
[13:35] <cjwatson> Odd - the keyserver itself seems to have accepted the expiration update
[13:35] <cjwatson> Oh, wait, that log is four days old
[13:36] <cjwatson> pitti pushed the update on 2015-04-08
[13:36] <cjwatson> seb128: So yeah, I think it's a pitti thing to retry
[13:42] <seb128> cjwatson, great, thanks for looking
[13:45] <rbasak> infinity: looks like powerpc failed for lack of the same syscall number as your arm64 fix. https://github.com/docker/libcontainer/pull/517 suggests you're working on it already?
[14:21] <mvo> shadeslayer: meh, sorry, incredible busy currently :/
[14:21] <shadeslayer> :(
[14:21] <shadeslayer> Can I bribe you with chocolate
[14:21] <shadeslayer> :P
[14:21]  * shadeslayer is trying to setup his own live-build scripts to build a rootfs at the moment
[14:24]  * pmjdebruijn uses the ubuntu-defaults-builder wrapper around live-build
[14:26] <shadeslayer> pmjdebruijn: won't work for making just a plain rootfs
[14:26] <shadeslayer> which is why I need to do more customizations
[14:26] <shadeslayer> looking at https://git.linaro.org/ci/ubuntu-build-service.git/blob/HEAD:/sid-armhf-debian/configure
[14:26] <pmjdebruijn> ah nevermidn then
[14:27]  * pmjdebruijn hides back in his corner
[14:41] <soee_> tseliot: i have info from Riddell that you are working on nvidia drivers for 15.04? Could you give me some info what is the current problem - why they wont work (bootking ends with black screen)?
[14:42] <flexiondotorg> What is the mechanism for re-opening a bug on LP?
[14:42] <flexiondotorg> As of today's daily images this is broken again - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1436937
[14:47] <tseliot> soee_: I think I've just got it to work with hybrid graphics now. But I would still like to fix the memory leak of the displayScript qProcess never being deleted
[14:48] <soee_> tseliot: cool, so it all shoudl work before Vivid final release ?
[14:48] <tseliot> QProcess::startDetatched seems to fail too
[14:48] <tseliot> soee_: I certainly hope so
[14:48] <soee_> tseliot: wo what packages it is related ?
[14:49] <tseliot> soee_: right now the only part missing (my patch does it) is a hook in sddm to run a script on log out
[14:49] <tseliot> so sddm is the package
[14:53] <sunweaver> Trevinho: hi!
[14:53] <Trevinho> sunweaver: hi
[14:54] <sunweaver> I am DD in the Debian MATE packaging team and want to take over maintenance for bamf in Debian.
[14:54] <Trevinho> sunweaver: oh, finally someone! :)
[14:54] <sunweaver> I see there is a 0.5.0 tarball on the launchpad project page.
[14:54] <sunweaver> but you ship some 0.5.1 version in Ubuntu versions already.
[14:54] <Trevinho> sunweaver: yep, it's not the latest tough
[14:54] <Trevinho> sunweaver: yes, you need a release?
[14:54] <sunweaver> actually yes.
[14:55] <sunweaver> esp. one that works without libunity-webapp.
[14:55] <Trevinho> ricotz: was asking the same few days ago...
[14:55] <sunweaver> ;-)
[14:55] <sunweaver> ricotz actually enrolled me in maintaining bamf...
[14:55] <Trevinho> sunweaver: well, even that one does not need it (it's an optional dependency)
[14:55] <sunweaver> yeah, I see that.
[14:55] <sunweaver> I checked out the latest (V-series) package in Ubuntu
[14:56] <sunweaver> and saw that unity-webapp stuff has been reduced to a minimal.
[14:56] <sunweaver> I'd be happy about something recent as a tarball release.
[14:56] <Trevinho> sunweaver: so... I can do that in a bit...
[14:56] <Trevinho> sunweaver: yes, actually we could even remove it at all
[14:56] <sunweaver> whatever...
[14:56] <sunweaver> ping me here, once I can run uscan --report-status again... ;-)
[14:57] <sunweaver> 0.5.x will be pushed to Debian experimental first.
[14:57] <sunweaver> then plank will receive an update 0.9.x
[14:57] <Trevinho> sunweaver: ok, nice
[14:57] <soee_> tseliot: thank you for this informations
[14:57] <sunweaver> and if that works well and we don't pee on someone else's package (have to check reverse build dependencies in Debian still), I will upload to unstable.
[14:57] <tseliot> soee_: np
[14:58] <sunweaver> Trevinho: thanks! Waiting for a ping from yours.
[14:58] <Trevinho> sunweaver: there are a couple of branches that are waiting also, so maybe it's better to include these as well
[14:58] <tseliot> Riddell: so, now it even works on log out here. I only need to close that leak that was already there
[14:58] <Riddell> tseliot++
[14:58] <Trevinho> it might take some more time to get the builders but, not much
[14:58] <sunweaver> Trevinho: take your time.
[14:59] <sunweaver> I just wanted to get the stone rolling...
[15:21] <cousteau> can this bug with libcairo be fixed for Ubuntu 12.04?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/759154
[15:35] <dholbach> @pilot out
[15:41] <tseliot> d_ed: I think I've fixed the two issues. All seems to work fine. See my last commit
[15:44] <tseliot> Riddell: so, I have a couple of patches that I can merge into one (since they really complete hybrid graphics support). That patch + "DisplayStopCommand=/sbin/prime-switch" in the conf file should do it
[15:46] <Riddell> tseliot: awooga
[15:52] <tseliot> Riddell: here's the unified patch: http://people.canonical.com/~amilone/0001-Add-support-for-DisplayStopCommand.patch
[15:52] <tseliot> I can now switch between GPUs when I log out :)
[16:42] <d_ed> tseliot: do you plan on updating the github request?
[17:05] <infinity> rbasak: Yeah, I'll fix powerpc and upload.
[17:05] <infinity> rbasak: Well, "fix" powerpc.  I'll fix upstream's code so it builds, but I think the toolchain has some issues that make the binaries a bit broken. :P
[17:09] <rbasak> infinity: OK, thanks.
[17:22] <pitti> cjwatson, seb128: RTM langpacks are working now, so the LP import for the updated key took < ½ day
[17:22] <pitti> ah, vivid langpacks are behind too? they only run weekly
[17:27] <pitti> I'm on the road now, but opened a tab as a reminder; I'll prod this in the next days (probably on Sat or so when I arrived in Austin)
[17:39] <tseliot> d_ed: I did
[17:41] <tseliot> d_ed: but I did git push -f as I had previously pushed the wrong commit
[18:42] <d_ed> tseliot: ah, found it on your repo. The pull request still shows the one from 8 days ago
[18:42] <d_ed> I don't understand github yet
[18:55] <soee_> d_ed: i think if tseliot updates hes branch that had pull request it pull request wont be updated
[18:56] <soee_> or maybe i wrong since i havent been using github for a while
[19:03] <soee_> well i was wrong i think, pull request contains both commits https://github.com/sddm/sddm/compare/master...tseliot:master
[19:09] <tseliot> soee_, d_ed: the pull request should contain the two relevant commits. But yes, they are also in my master branch
[19:10] <soee_> tseliot: so it has to be only merged now ?
[19:12] <tseliot> soee_: yes. Then Riddell will include the changes and add DisplayStopCommand=/sbin/prime-switch in scripts/Xstop or in the .conf file
[19:14] <soee_> tseliot: who can merge it ?
[19:24] <tseliot> soee_: ok, so, if we're talking about upstream, d_ed can. In Ubuntu, Riddell will deal with it
[19:29] <Riddell> tseliot: you also need to edit data/CMakeLists.txt to install Xstop
[19:42] <Riddell> tseliot: uploaded to archive https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sddm/0.11.0-0ubuntu10
[19:50] <asac> apw: ogasawara: so i have a kernel source package by paolo and wonder where i can find the config he uses in there
[19:50] <asac> where do i look?
[19:52] <asac> ogra_: slangasek: any idea?
[19:52] <infinity> asac: Getting it out of the source package is actually sort of tough, cause it's a split config.
[19:52] <infinity> asac: If you build a binary package, though, it's installed at /boot/config-$(uname -r)
[19:53] <asac> oops
[19:53] <asac> ok lt me try to find it in https://launchpad.net/~p-pisati/+archive/ubuntu/misc/+files/linux-image-3.19.1-4-generic-bcm2709_3.19.1-4.4_armhf.deb
[19:54] <asac> infinity: thanks ... got it!!!
[19:54] <infinity> asac: NP.
[19:55] <asac> infinity: so i found he doesnt have CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM
[19:55] <asac> how can i enable it?
[19:55] <asac> that looks really to make sense from the error i am getting
[19:55] <asac> [  348.917047] device-mapper: table: 254:0: thin-pool: unknown target type
[19:55] <asac> [  348.924052] device-mapper: ioctl: error adding target to table
[19:56] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~/build/linux/ubuntu-vivid$ rgrep CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM debian.master/
[19:56] <infinity> debian.master/config/config.common.ubuntu:CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM=y
[19:56] <infinity> debian.master/config/config.common.ubuntu:CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM_BUILTIN=y
[19:56] <infinity> debian.master/config/annotations:CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM                              y mark<ENFORCED> note<LP:#560717>
[19:56] <infinity> asac: If that's based on a master config, it should be enabled, unless he's explicitly disabled it for your flavor.
[19:56] <asac> infinity: its not in the boot/config
[19:56] <asac> infinity: its something derived from a nice BSP kernel :)
[19:56] <infinity> asac: If it's not based on a master config, well.  Whee.  But root around in debian.$flavour/config
[19:56] <asac> https://launchpad.net/~p-pisati/+archive/ubuntu/misc/+files/linux-bcm2709_3.19.1-4.4.dsc
[20:16] <Unit193> FWIW, in upstart sshd is Restart=always, but in systemd it is Restart=on-failure.
[21:01] <tseliot> Riddell: right, I tested using sddm.conf, so I didn't catch that. I'll fix that
[21:01] <soee> tseliot: did you tried propriety drivers ?
[21:02] <tseliot> soee: yes, I tested that with intel+nvidia binary (hybrid graphics)
[21:02] <soee> tseliot: just tires it with updated sddm, ends up witb black screen when sddm shoudl load
[21:03] <soee> *tried
[21:03] <tseliot> soee: what hardware configuration are you using?
[21:04] <soee> tseliot: dell witg intel  + nvidia
[21:04] <tseliot> soee: is that vivid?
[21:05] <soee> tseliot: yes
[21:05] <soee> all worked fine in utopiv when we had lightdm
[21:05] <soee> *utopic
[21:05] <soee> after switch to sddm i couldn't use nvidia profiel anymore
[21:05] <tseliot> soee: make sure ubuntu-drivers-common is at least 1:0.4.2
[21:06] <soee> Installed: 1:0.4.4
[21:07] <soee> also when i switch to nvidia profile and try to boot
[21:08] <tseliot> soee: can I see /var/log/gpu-manager.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[21:09] <soee> tseliot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10794728/
[21:10] <soee> tseliot: and http://paste.ubuntu.com/10794734/
[21:11] <soee> i just uninstalled nvidia-prime and drivers because i culdnt boot
[21:11] <tseliot> soee: you're using intel+nouveau, there's no nvidia. Also no nvidia-prime means no functioning nvidia binary on your system
[21:12] <soee> tseliot: yes i remoed them to be able to boot
[21:12] <soee> i couldn;t login but here the problem was that somehow .Xauthority changed owner to root
[21:12] <soee> so sddm could not login me
[21:13] <tseliot> soee: ok, please wait until all is in place (sddm, including the Cmake addition, and the change in XStop), then try again
[21:13] <tseliot> I think we'll fix it next week
[21:13] <soee> tseliot: i tried nvidia-prime + new sddm and i could login
[21:13] <soee> after i have installed propriety drivers, black screen only
[21:17] <soee> reboot
[21:22] <soee> tseliot: without drivers i can login but http://paste.ubuntu.com/10794811/
[21:33] <tseliot> Riddell: I've just made another merge request to fix CMakeLists.txt: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/399
[21:33] <tseliot> soee: as I said, it's better if you wait until everything is in place
[21:34] <tseliot> d_ed: see https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/399
[21:37] <d_ed> tseliot: thanks


[04:01] <mapps> hi:D
[06:05] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:58] <diplo> Morning all
[08:05] <BigRedS> hello!
[08:20] <foobarry> not getting hangouts notifications since moving to cm13. any suggestions? i have checked notifications and also mobile data settings
[08:25] <foobarry> just cleared a load of stuff and will wait for new message
[08:29] <popey> odd, i get them on cm13
[08:30] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: If it's important, they'll call you. :-)
[09:00] <foobarry> omgubuntu mentioned a tool called peek to record a selection of your screen as a gif, really nifty
[09:00] <foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/peek-desktop-gif-screen-recorder-linux
[09:19] <awilkins> Hey there
[09:19] <BigRedS> Goooood Morning!
[09:19] <awilkins> Thunderbird with integrated Lightning - does the packaged version installed by default have Lightning?
[09:20] <foobarry> on its a plugin
[09:20] <foobarry> on=no
[09:21] <awilkins> I installed it and got a popup saying that Lightning was integrated with Thunderbird now (I understand they package it in the default downloadable install)
[09:21] <awilkins> With keep / disable / remove buttons
[09:21] <foobarry> oh, which linux distro/version?
[09:21] <awilkins> 16.04 / tbird 45
[09:21] <foobarry> oh i'm on 38.6
[09:21] <awilkins> But I can't find any of the calender UI now I removed the plugin
[09:22] <awilkins> So I'm guessing it's just a silly notifier popup
[09:22] <foobarry> ctrl-shift-c
[09:22] <awilkins> Ok, that doesn't work after I remove Lightning add on
[09:24] <awilkins> So I guess "integrated" means "bundled" and the Debian package hasn't bundled it
[09:26] <awilkins> But I'm getting the "This item has been recently updated on the server ... " infinite loop bug
[09:26] <awilkins> Which makes the calendar plugin a bit pointless
[09:26] <BigRedS> I've never really got the lightning plugin to work; calendar's another thing that's basically best-done in the browser now I think
[09:27] <awilkins> It works quite nicely with Outlook over EWS now (Hooray for Erikkson)
[09:27] <awilkins> And I've not had trouble with the Google calendar plugin before
[09:50] <awilkins> Deleted the event via the web UI
[09:50] <awilkins> Constant bleating has stopped
[09:55] <foobarry> watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmBSh1FGQyY instead of buying the good boss, bad boss book
[09:56] <TwistedLucidity> On 45 here, guess I didn't notice Lightning coming in by default; I always install it anyway
[09:56] <foobarry> i find 1hr talks are better than wading thru a long book contain 5 points
[11:39] <Safiyyah> Hi guys,  my system died at the recent automatic upgrade and I am now inclined to ubuntu mate
[11:39] <Safiyyah> Linux mint is also seeming likea viable stable option.
[11:41] <Safiyyah> I also have a laptop which I bought a few months ago and that too has slowed down (blame bulky windows)  but it is nice to see that I still hate windows.  Despite their upgrades.  For the laptop I am inclined towards solydk or Linux mint I appreciate your experience and opinions as always.
[11:43] <Safiyyah> Is anyone here?
[11:46] <TwistedLucidity> I like Kubuntu, but you need to install Kubuntu Backports PPA to get stability.
[11:46] <TwistedLucidity> Each to their own.
[11:48] <Safiyyah> I had xubuntu for the last two years
[11:48] <Safiyyah> I don't like fiddly bits,  that was what scared me about kubuntu
[11:48] <popey> i like ubuntu mate :)
[11:48] <popey> mate is nice and familiar
[11:49] <Safiyyah> Its going back to 6 years ago when things were nice
[11:49] <diddledan> for the australians there should be an Ubuntu Sport as well as Mate
[11:49] <diddledan> and for us brits an Ubuntu Buddy
[11:49] <TwistedLucidity> Needs a Scottish version, Ubuntu Pal
[11:50] <diddledan> and a Mr Robot: Ubuntu Friend
[11:50] <Safiyyah> TwistedLucidity.  I was thinking about solyk for my laptop because I like alot of the kde apps
[11:50] <TwistedLucidity> Never used it.
[11:50] <Safiyyah> Okidok.
[11:50] <TwistedLucidity> If you like KDE, consider Neon (User edition)
[11:51] <diddledan> and one for my brother: Ubuntu MeOldMucker
[11:51] <Safiyyah> Popey does mate have the apps connected like amazon etc?
[11:51] <Safiyyah> I didn't want to see anything that resembles unity for the rest of my life
[11:52] <popey> O_O
[11:52] <popey> uh, no
[11:52] <TwistedLucidity> I thought the whole Amazon thing was over, no?
[11:52] <popey> yes
[11:52] <diddledan> I had no issue with the Amazon tie-in
[11:53] <popey> it was massively blown out of proportion
[11:53] <popey> but shouldn't have been landed when it did IMO
[11:53] <diddledan> Canonical is a commercial company and they need to find _some way_ to generate revenue to survive
[11:54] <TwistedLucidity> It was an interesting idea, but it made me uneasy the way it was done. I guess /some kind/ of web shoppery app would be good; tieing into Canoncial or no.
[11:54] <diddledan> afaict the amazon stuff was heavily anonymised
[11:54] <popey> we tried
[11:54] <popey> it failed
[11:54] <popey> meh
[11:54] <Safiyyah> Okay but no unity like stuff.
[11:54] <Safiyyah> I didn't liks unity at all
[11:54] <TwistedLucidity> If you don't like Unity, avoid GNOME.
[11:55] <popey> MATE is nothing like Unity
[11:55] <popey> it has a nice feature that you can make it look like any other desktop
[11:55] <diddledan> Gnome is alien to me now
[11:55] <popey> which is pretty neat.
[11:55] <TwistedLucidity> Well, I guess it depends on /what/ you don't like about Unity.
[11:55] <Safiyyah> Okay the bomb is my laptop also has a touch screen.
[11:55] <popey> I use MATE on a Thinkpad X61s and it flies along nicely
[11:56] <TwistedLucidity> In that case, a more touch-friendly DE like Unity might not be a bad idea.
[11:57] <TwistedLucidity> I used Unity when demoing stuff - it works rather well.
[11:57] <Safiyyah> I can tolerate gnome fairly well.  Unity is....  Welll like windows in a different layout
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> I think you mean "Windows is like Unity" :-)
[11:58] <Safiyyah> Okay popey am sold on mate for thw desktop
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> Don't like it? Just install another. That's what's great about F/OSS
[11:59]  * diddledan FLOSSes his teeth
[12:00] <Safiyyah> Help with the laptop please.  Solydk or mint,  bear in mind there js a touch screen to configure later
[12:01] <Safiyyah> TwistedLucidity I like to get rhe system going and nit have to think about it again for a couple of years.  Sorry
[12:02] <TwistedLucidity> Do you intend to use the touch screen?
[12:02] <Safiyyah> I only come  here when my computer decides to die.  Like now.  I am not a fashionable distribution tryer or whatever the hype distro people are called.
[12:02] <Safiyyah> Yes as a mouse.  To click etc
[12:03] <TwistedLucidity> I have never used Mate of KDE on a touch device. I know KDE is looking at/improving touch support but that is all.
[12:03] <TwistedLucidity> Ho hum
[12:09] <Safiyyah> I got disconnected
[12:09] <Safiyyah> Sorry about the touch screen
[12:09] <Safiyyah> I was trying to get your advise
[12:09] <Safiyyah> Advice*
[12:10] <popey> not many linux desktops work well with a touch screen
[12:10] <popey> most were designed before touch screens were commonplace on desktop/laptop computers
[12:10] <Safiyyah> Okay
[12:11] <Safiyyah> So that is something I will have to fiddle with at a later
[12:11] <Safiyyah> No worries
[12:11] <Safiyyah> I will be back when I get stuck with the install
[12:11] <Safiyyah> Thanks so much
[12:11] <popey> no problem
[12:13] <Safiyyah> Y
[12:35] <foobarry> wow. dropbox, douchebox
[12:36] <foobarry> didn't mention passwords were taken. also the email they sent was a bit fuzzy. "yeah you haven't changed your password in ages, why not try now?"
[12:36] <BigRedS> https://www.troyhunt.com/the-dropbox-hack-is-real/ ?
[12:37] <foobarry> "The attack took place during 2012. At the time Dropbox reported a collection of user’s email addresses had been stolen. It did not report that passwords had been stolen as well."
[14:00] <diplo> Going for my first real / proper interview tomorrow since starting to work 20+ years ago, Devops Engineer - Any tips guys ? I've read up on the company and job spec, anything else that's normally asked.
[14:01] <penguin42> diplo: They might ask you to code/solve a problem
[14:02] <foobarry> they might ask you what devops is
[14:02] <foobarry> and what you understand by automation
[14:02] <penguin42> that would be cruel
[14:08] <diplo> They Sorry the phone went as soon as I typed that out
[14:08] <diplo> They've defined what devops is for them in the job spec
[14:09] <popey> They may ask you for your own war stories, problems you've overcome, conflicts you've resolved, money you've saved. Basically Achievements you've unlocked.
[14:09] <diplo> It doesn't appear to be any coding/problem solving according to the key points
[14:09] <foobarry> whats yr favourite config mgmt system and why
[14:09] <diplo> Yeah, I've been working on them
[14:09] <diplo> They use puppet/chef etc, I use ansible.. better have  a read up on that too :)
[14:09] <foobarry> probably no time to deploy a test system
[14:10] <foobarry> also version control
[14:10] <foobarry> some git commands
[14:10] <penguin42> maybe some networking type questions?
[14:13] <diplo> I'll find out someone from there is in here now
[14:13] <diplo> They run ubuntu/debian :)
[14:13] <foobarry> i use puppet and github all the time but wouldn't be confident in a true devops engineer job. fortunately a lot of those job titles are just trendy names for sysadmins
[14:13] <diplo> https://www.actual-experience.com/jobs/devops-engineer/
[14:13] <diplo> Is the job
[14:14] <zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed your interview goes well
[14:15] <diplo> ta fanx, don't get nervous about much but this seems to be making me :P
[14:15] <penguin42> what a mix of programming languages; python, erlang, bash, perl, javascript
[14:15] <penguin42> I forget which ones use Erlang
[14:15] <diplo> Whatever happens, it's a notch for experience on interviews if anything
[14:15] <diplo> I do them all apart from erlang, heard of it, but never coded in it before
[14:19] <foobarry> essentials are a bit broad
[14:19] <foobarry> they expect an expert in docker, openstack and vmware?
[14:20] <foobarry> in my experience you are one of those, not all
[14:20] <zmoylan-pi> at newbie rates of course... :-)
[14:20] <foobarry> oh and programming languages
[14:20] <diplo> Most job specs are broad like that too
[14:20] <diplo> I've found
[14:20] <foobarry> its not helpful
[14:21] <foobarry> either they want sysad, programmer, or devops guy
[14:21] <diplo> It's not at all, but in the spec I got sent instead of the website, they aren't looking for a specialist in all, but as long as your know docker is not a tupperware dish we're onto a good start
[14:23] <foobarry> maybe they will choose someone they like chatting with
[14:24] <diplo> From the thing the recruitment person sent through, it appears it maybe a fair bit of getting to know and a feel of the person, maybe someone they can work with and ply to their ways :)
[14:29] <foobarry> unzipped a massive 7z file with "e" instead of "x"
[14:29] <foobarry> :'(
[14:29] <foobarry> no folder structure
[14:31] <zmoylan-pi> geek world problems...
[14:52] <diddledan> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/08/31/runaway-teen-hops-on-facebook-to-ask-police-to-use-nicer-mugshot/
[14:53] <zmoylan-pi> they should have photoshopped the new pic ugly and used it
[14:54] <popey> or asked fb / isp for the details of where she connected from
[14:54] <zmoylan-pi> i think she's been picked up since
[15:09] <Safiyyah> I decided to install Linux mate.  However after a successful installation it tells me there is no boot loader.  I put the swap partition as well
[15:09] <Safiyyah> No idea what I have done wrong
[15:09] <penguin42> Safiyyah: Did you manually parititon or just let it do it's own thing?
[15:10] <popey> tsk tsk
[15:10] <popey> :)
[15:12] <Safiyyah> Manually
[15:12] <Safiyyah> I was also getting rid of the windows partitions
[15:12] <Safiyyah> Shall I run the installation again?
[15:13] <Safiyyah> I left the efi windows boot loader and did the swap,  root,  home and storage areas and had some free space left
[15:15] <Safiyyah> Well the good news is my touch screen was working during the installation
[15:16] <Safiyyah> And on the try out
[15:16] <penguin42> Safiyyah: Try an automatic installation
[15:16] <Safiyyah> Okay
[15:16] <Safiyyah> Running one now
[16:02] <Safiyyah> It still says no bootable device even after a fresh install
[16:03] <popey> maybe go to the mint support channel?
[16:03] <Safiyyah> I installed ubuntu mate
[16:04] <Safiyyah> Not mint
[16:04] <popey> oh, you said "Linux mate" which I assumed you meant linux mint :)
[16:04] <popey> sorry.
[16:04] <Safiyyah> Oh sorry
[16:04] <popey> is this a desktop or laptop?
[16:04] <Safiyyah> Laptop
[16:04] <popey> did you install off a usb key or something?
[16:05] <Safiyyah> I am yet to touglch the desktop
[16:05] <Safiyyah> Yes usb
[16:05] <Safiyyah> I changed the boot order to the hdd first as well
[16:05] <popey> which version of ubuntu mate?
[16:05] <popey> where'd you get the ISO?
[16:05] <Safiyyah> 16.04
[16:06] <Safiyyah> Ubuntu mate website
[16:06] <popey> ok
[16:06] <popey> what happens when you try to boot the laptop?
[16:06] <Safiyyah> It says no bootable device
[16:07] <Safiyyah> I think it has no boot loader
[16:07] <popey> what was on it previously?
[16:07] <Safiyyah> Windows
[16:07] <Safiyyah> 10 or 11
[16:07] <popey> so this is a relatively new laptop?
[16:07] <Safiyyah> Yep new this april
[16:08] <popey> I wonder if this is a secure boot thing
[16:08] <penguin42> Safiyyah: Make/Model?
[16:08] <Safiyyah> Might be,  I didn't request to turn it off
[16:09] <Safiyyah> Acer aspire r3
[16:09] <penguin42> Safiyyah: Do you have the full model, apparently the r3 has been going for years
[16:10] <popey> probably on a sticker underneath
[16:10] <Safiyyah> N15W5
[16:11] <Safiyyah> That is the model number
[16:11] <penguin42> thanks
[16:12] <Safiyyah> I know I have 4gd ram ang 500gb storage
[16:12]  * penguin42 sees someone seems to have had mint running on it; so if that works a straight Ubuntu probably should
[16:13] <popey> I expect you may need to do some fiddling in the BIOS/EFI thing
[16:13] <Safiyyah> I never installed mint
[16:13] <popey> I haven't had any machines like this so can't really help there
[16:13] <Safiyyah> I got it from the shop with Windows
[16:13] <Safiyyah> It became a slow snail after a windows update
[16:14] <Safiyyah> Decided to leave windows alone
[16:14] <Safiyyah> I put ubuntu mate
[16:14] <Safiyyah> And now it is not happy
[16:21] <awilkins> Secure Boot works in my experience
[16:21] <awilkins> Although I've had to disable it for unsigned drivers (VirtualBox kernel driver)
[16:22] <awilkins> In general the installer will install you up in the mode you were when you booted, and EFI works too
[16:22] <awilkins> Is it a RAID thing?
[16:23] <awilkins> If the Windows install was on RST / RAID mode, I've had to disable RAID mode to get Ubuntu to install
[16:23] <awilkins> But conceivably it could be a RAID thing that the LiveUSB supports for install but grub can't boot??!?
[16:25] <Safiyyah> I am in the bios and it has secure boot mode as standard
[16:25] <Safiyyah> The only thing it is asking me to do is to set the password,  I can't change anything else,  just see the status
[16:27] <Safiyyah> The section which says 'select an uefi file as trusted fpr executing is disabled
[16:28] <Safiyyah> I cannot change it.  Sorry about the typos am using the phone
[16:28] <Safiyyah> Hmm i think this is part of raid,  nothing to do with Windows
[16:37] <Safiyyah> I keep being disconnected if I leave the window
[16:37] <Safiyyah> Does anyone know what to do about the secure boot thing?
[19:02] <foobarry> shame there isn't a geek equivalent of bakeoff
[19:02] <foobarry> build a computer , write an app, fix a broken tablet
[19:02] <zmoylan-pi> i miss the great egg race with heinz wolff
[19:03] <foobarry> build an airfix kit
[19:03] <foobarry> the great british hack off
[19:03] <zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Egg_Race
[19:10] <penguin42> that was good
[19:10] <penguin42> Scrap yard was I guess the mech-head equivalent
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> a computer based one would be... difficult as the potential audience would be so small... unless you aim it at an online market
[19:12] <zmoylan-pi> there is robot wars currently but that's more about the performance and control than the design
[19:13] <zmoylan-pi> i must have upset ubot... all those poor bots... :-P
[19:22] <popey> Just watched the Robot Wars final. Sam loved it
[19:27] <foobarry> i'm a week behind. just watched the 5thepisode
[19:28] <foobarry> great porogramme . my wife likes it too
[19:28] <foobarry> its quite popular with some non geek women i know
[19:28] <foobarry> actually my wife is geekier than me, just in different ways
[20:10] <daftykins> hey folks \o
[20:10] <penguin42> hey
[20:13] <diddledan> hi de ho
[20:13] <daftykins> i've been away in the land of "oh you're going away for 3 weeks? suddenly we have lots of last minute work for you..." and also tonnes of Deus Ex play ;D
[20:14] <zmoylan-pi> you're repelling down k2? can you just dial in and reboot server x?
[20:15] <daftykins> :D
[20:39] <safiyyah> Hi
[20:40] <daftykins> lo
[20:40] <daftykins> what's broken this time? ;)
[20:42] <AndChat|326081> I installed ubuntu mate on
[20:46] <AndChat|326081> A laptop  today which had windows it had secure boot
[20:46] <AndChat|326081> No matter how many installations I run it still tells me there is no bootable device
[20:47] <daftykins> mmm sounds like the usual challenges - the best bet is to check the BIOS for any options to disable secure boot, or enable "legacy" / "CSM"
[20:47] <daftykins> if it's that cheap thing you bought then it'll likely be a challenge as i predicted at the time to get going
[20:48] <AndChat|326081> Lol
[20:48] <daftykins> best thing you could do is upload a picture of each BIOS page to imgur.com and link it here
[20:51] <AndChat|326081> Okay am here now I  changed to legacy  and no joy am I supposed
[20:53] <AndChat|326081> I am just taking the pics
[20:53] <daftykins> it'll need reinstalling in legacy mode - you'll have to boot the USB flash drive as legacy, too
[20:54] <daftykins> !legacy
[20:54] <daftykins> !efi
[20:58] <AndChat|326081> Okay daftykins,  changed to legacy,  doing a clean install again
[20:59] <daftykins> make sure to boot the media in legacy mode, the above link shows how to tell the difference
[20:59] <daftykins> essentially white text menu on black background = EFI, purple image with logo bottom centre = legacy
[21:50] <StevenR> hmm. What starts all my qemu vms?
[21:51] <StevenR> ah ha. found.
[22:05] <zmoylan-pi> right, crisis averted, discovered i was down to just 5 tea bags left...
[22:07] <diddledan> politics: surely if the eu commission thinks that ireland broke the law with it's tax affairs with apple, then it should be ireland who have to pay the fine, not apple?
[22:08] <zmoylan-pi> the irish people can pay €14b no problemo.  of course we might need a few new ministers after a few are lynched...
[22:09] <zmoylan-pi> the hq of one of the parties involved... https://twitter.com/DaithiHealy/status/771002327167799296/photo/1
[22:11] <zmoylan-pi> and they have already changed the laws so the loopholes all the american companies that have european hqs in ireland (ms, amazon, ibm, apple, facebook etc.) will probably be gone in 2020 when it's shut
[22:12] <diddledan> \o/
[22:12] <diddledan> I wonder where they'll go
[22:12] <zmoylan-pi> wherever their accountants will tell them they can save money
[22:12] <diddledan> it's bad news for the Irish economy though :-(
[22:13] <zmoylan-pi> it will hurt.  but if the only thing keeping them here was a scam for them then it had to be broken
[22:13] <zmoylan-pi> ireland is the hq of apple, yet has no apple stores
[22:13] <zmoylan-pi> nearest one is in belfast which is the uk
[22:13]  * daftykins swaps all those apples for spuds
[22:14] <diddledan> I've got an apple store in my town
[22:14] <diddledan> POTATO!
[22:14] <zmoylan-pi> and we seem to already have swapped american companies using us for tax convenience to air leasing companies using us as a flag of convenience for leasing planes...
[22:14] <diddledan> potato said as an exclamation by an irish accented person is fun
[22:15] <diddledan> just randomly pipe-up "potato"
[22:16] <daftykins> i think we'd have sustained a few injuries to the head by now if we were over there though
[22:16] <daftykins> saying these things
[22:16] <zmoylan-pi> of 20,000 large planes flying at any time on the planet, 8000 are leased and half of those are leased out of ireland... http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/its-boom-time-for-aircraft-leasing-in-ireland-30319106.html
[22:17] <diddledan> wow
[22:17] <diddledan> that's an impressive stock of rentals
[22:18] <zmoylan-pi> it came a bit of suprise a few months back to discover through leprechaun economics that ireland is doing /well/ in air transport
[22:26] <diddledan> new ithingies in 7 days
[22:27] <diddledan> who wants one?
[22:27] <zmoylan-pi> what i want, what i really really want is a new psion with wifi, blackjack and hookers
[22:27] <zmoylan-pi> and you can keep the blackjack and hookers
[23:05] <zmoylan-pi> 1st day of autumn...
[23:06] <zmoylan-pi> well proper autumn that is
[23:08] <penguin42> diddledan: It's all horribly messy isn't it
[23:09] <penguin42> diddledan: And the Irish are saying the law is perfectly legal thank you very much (which it may well be)
[23:25] <daftykins> i'm already eyeing up Rocky Mountain National Park t-shirts i can buy when i am over in Colorado next week 8D
[23:31] <zmoylan-pi> it maybe that a deal was done when apple was pre jobs coming back and apple was on last legs... and it just didn't get relooked at after they became the money printing juggarnaut they are now
[23:45] <zmoylan-pi> it's odd that apples share of mobile market is sinking down to the same levels their desktop os had back then.  even if it's super profitable you wonder can it last
[23:46] <daftykins> took a few generations for their customers to see they all do the same thing :)
[23:46] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: the super profitable is all you need; you don't actually need share
[23:47] <daftykins> the state their all in one desktops (iMacs) and laptops (Macbook Pros) are in though, oof - hardware hasn't been refreshed despite superior intel chips, in like 900 days
[23:47] <zmoylan-pi> penguin42 they had super profitable back then too but it faded as early new software appeared first on other platforms
[23:47] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Right, so they've got to get enough share to keep new software development for their platforms
[23:48] <zmoylan-pi> they _owned_ the dtp market plus a few others and were considered unreplaceable in those markets
[23:48] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: and video editing and graphics and a few others - but they were miles ahead in hardware and base OS at the time
[23:48] <zmoylan-pi> and it seems to me at least they're making the same decisions again
[23:49] <zmoylan-pi> and music
[23:49] <zmoylan-pi> but as important as they were there it wasn't enough...
[23:49] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Not once you can do the same thing on cheaper platforms
[23:50] <zmoylan-pi> the idea of doing dtp on windows was considered laughable...
[23:51] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I mean I remember back in ~1992 Macs could do lots of separate displays each with different bit depth and resolution and have windows split across them; can platforms do that these days?
[23:51]  * zmoylan-pi remembers doing cad on dos/windows with multiple screens then too...
[23:52] <zmoylan-pi> 'twas a wee bit of a black art getting the hardware not to explode :-)
[23:52] <penguin42> with different screen depths?
[23:52] <zmoylan-pi> one was console 80x25 and other was vga/svga for graphical output
[23:53] <penguin42> that's cheating; I mean multiple bitmapped
[23:53] <penguin42> with a window dragged across the join
[23:53] <zmoylan-pi> oh... x windows could be done on dos then too.... deskview people did it...
[23:54] <penguin42> yeh but I'm not sure X can do that; in fact I'm pretty sure it can't
[23:54] <zmoylan-pi> let me look, i think it could... i had some dealings with deskview so saw a lot of them pushing x on dos.  could be wrong mind...
[23:54] <diddledan> even mswindows is having issue with multiple dpi levels
[23:54] <diddledan> osx does it fine
[23:55] <daftykins> diddledan: cat does the macarena - http://imgur.com/gallery/RGznj
[23:55] <diddledan> (I realise it's different to bit-depth)
[23:55] <diddledan> nawww
[23:55] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh in principal they're separate problems, but I think the structure means if you get it right you can cope with either; I think X suffers from having bit depth/dpi associated with the desktop (root window???)
[23:57] <diddledan> penguin42: I think you're right there. it seems from dpi issues that I've been having with buntu on a retina macbook pro connected to regular 72dpi external monitors that X is seeing it all as 72dpi
[23:58]  * zmoylan-pi reads the blurb on desqview/x from mag i probably read back then... :-) https://books.google.ie/books?id=6z0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA15&redir_esc=y&hl=en
[23:58] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh that's probably what I'd expect; I think there are some newer tweaks but I don't think there's anything that really works