[08:57] <nitin_>  i have set up a MAAS server with 2 nodes in ready state
[08:57] <nitin_> I want to add a generated image of CentOS to MAAS
[08:58] <nitin_> what should be the format of image to be uploaded in MAAS?
[11:41] <binoy> how to get the pci details of a node using maas
[11:41] <binoy> api
[11:53] <roaksoax_> binoy: this might help: https://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/api.html#commissioning-results
[11:54] <binoy> thank you roaksoax
[11:54] <binoy> let me try this
[12:30] <hns> Hello. I'm trying to setup a small test environment, wich consist of a VM as region/cluster and one as node. The region/cluster has 2 network interfaces, one for internet access and the other one is a virtual network for nodes. The node is trying to boot via pxe but this fails. I've tcp dumped around I see the client requests, but it somehow fails anyway. See http://pastebin.com/idQcj48q any hint?
[13:23] <nitin_> #raspbian
[14:15] <mup> Bug #1514436 opened: Support redirects for maas.ubuntu.com/images <MAAS:New for andreserl> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514436>
[15:39] <mup> Bug #1514486 opened: Cannot claim sticky IP address for a device with parent unless observed IPs exist for the parent <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514486>
[15:42] <mup> Bug #1514486 changed: Cannot claim sticky IP address for a device with parent unless observed IPs exist for the parent <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514486>
[15:48] <mup> Bug #1514486 opened: Cannot claim sticky IP address for a device with parent unless observed IPs exist for the parent <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514486>
[15:51] <mup> Bug #1514486 changed: Cannot claim sticky IP address for a device with parent unless observed IPs exist for the parent <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514486>
[15:54] <mup> Bug #1514486 opened: Cannot claim sticky IP address for a device with parent unless observed IPs exist for the parent <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514486>
[17:42] <mup> Bug #1513775 changed: MAAS didn't parse dnssec-validation automatically <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513775>
[19:39] <hns> hello, my nodes are booting via pxe but aren't listed, any hints?


[19:44] <robert__> for some reason the cube caps plugin has been removed in 8.10 beta
[19:44] <DigitalFiz> danbh_intrepid, you know of any webcams that look decent in linux? my webcam looks great in windows but always looks like crap in linux
[19:45] <robert__> does anyone know why the cube caps plugin has been removed?
[19:45] <danbh_intrepid> DigitalFiz: well, I bought one because it was supported in linux, but I'm still going to use it in windows
[19:45] <danbh_intrepid> because the webcam software sucks
[19:45] <DigitalFiz> yeah
[19:45] <DigitalFiz> someone needs to make a tricaster for linux hehe
[19:45] <danbh_intrepid> DigitalFiz: I found mine on the fsf.org website
[19:45] <danbh_intrepid> !hardware
[19:45] <DigitalFiz> a good tricaster
[19:45] <robert__> does anyone know why the cube caps plugin has been removed?
[19:46] <danbh_intrepid> There is a link at the bottom of the first page
[19:46] <DigitalFiz> robert__, i really doubt contantly repeating yourself will get you an answer
[19:47] <DigitalFiz> ty danbh_intrepid
[19:47] <danbh_intrepid> robert__: yeah, you can repeat, but every 50 seconds is probably too soon.    Try searching bugs.launchpad.net to see if you can find an answer
[19:47] <DigitalFiz> 1 more danbh_intrepid how does the camera look in ubuntu?
[19:48] <danbh_intrepid> Its pretty close to how it looks in Windows, which for this webcam is really good.  I got the logitech notebook pro / 9000.
[19:49] <DigitalFiz> awesome
[19:49] <danbh_intrepid> BUT, I don't know how to change any of the settings
[19:49] <DigitalFiz> thats really what im looking for
[19:49] <DigitalFiz> i have a microsoft life cam 3000 looks good in windows but terrible in linux
[19:49] <DigitalFiz> i have 2 others that are the same way but those are real cheap cams
[19:49] <danbh_intrepid> in Windows, a window just pops up where I can change the lighting quality, whatever.  I think on linux, you have to issue commands from the terminal to the uvc driver
[19:50] <DigitalFiz> you can change settings in camorama
[19:50] <DigitalFiz> if it knows how to with your cam
[19:50] <DigitalFiz> i bet theres a uvc gui somewhere
[19:51] <danbh_intrepid> camorama isnt maintained anymore.  IT only supports vfl, which is depreciated
[19:51] <danbh_intrepid> my webcam is vfl2 only, so camorama crashes out
[19:54] <DigitalFiz> hmm that logtech is an hd cam too
[19:54] <DigitalFiz> nice i think ill try it
[19:55] <DigitalFiz> can you show me a screen shot of the quality?
[19:56] <DigitalFiz> oh that was nasty
[19:57] <DigitalFiz> http://www.showmeblog.com/home/2008/05/logitech-quickc.html
[19:57] <danbh_intrepid> lulz
[19:57] <danbh_intrepid> CRAP, cheese sucks so much
[19:58] <danbh_intrepid> ITS NOT WORKING!!!
[19:58] <DigitalFiz> lol
[19:58]  * danbh_intrepid has to file _another_ bug report
[19:59] <danbh_intrepid> weird, it works from the terminal, kinda
[20:00] <DigitalFiz> http://www.cameroid.com/snap.php
[20:01] <DigitalFiz> http://www.cameroid.com/6JMN-A1 thats the camera i have now it sucks
[20:01] <danbh_intrepid> naw, flash isnt detecting it
[20:03] <danbh_intrepid> hmmm, is there an anonymous pastebin for images?
[20:09] <danbh_intrepid> DigitalFiz: http://s435.photobucket.com/albums/qq73/jarjarbuggle/?action=view&current=screeny.png
[20:10] <danbh_intrepid> I think all those quality issues are software related, and I was moving around
[20:10] <danbh_intrepid> my room is actually much darker
[20:13] <elexodus> hola
[20:17] <tenshinoneko> hello, can we discuss 8.10 in here?
[20:18] <elexodus> tenshinoneko: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[20:18] <Pici> tenshinoneko: This is the place.
[20:28] <tenshinoneko> Oh i am having an issue with my wacom tablet it;s a bamboo. Hovering works great but when i tap it, it stops working. any ideas?
[20:39] <tenshinoneko> Oh i am having an issue with my wacom tablet it;s a bamboo. Hovering works great but when i tap it, it stops working. any ideas?
[20:43] <biberao> bye gtg
[20:43] <biberao> take care
[20:51] <hansin> I tried install the 8.10 beta alternative image and had an issue.  Some facts: downloaded via torrent, matched md5 sums, burned with a prog that does post-burn verify, booted CD and ran check media utility.  Here is what happened...
[20:53] <hansin> I first tried full install and had issue, so then tried minimal install and same issue.  I get through the partitioning (in the text installer of course since its the alternative CD) to the 'Install the base system' point. and it starts loading, and then at I think 78% an ncurses dialog box pops up telling me:
[20:53] <pen> hansin, issue?
[20:53] <pen> hansin, it works for me flawlessly so far
[20:54] <hansin> "Please insert the disk labeled: 'Ubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Beta i386 (20080930.4) in the drive '/cdrom' and press enter"
[20:55] <hansin> My choices are: <Go Back> and <Continue>, though I can't even open my CD rom drive, and choosing either doesn't do a darned thing.  I have done many Ubuntu alternative, server, and Debian text installs, and have never seen this before.
[20:57] <hansin> So it basically freezes at 78% during the 'Install the base system' stage (I know it is 78% because I can hit the spacebar or enter a bunch of times at the ncurses dialog box explain above and it flashes enough that I can see the progress bar and percentage that is behind it in the regular ncureses box you see during this stage.
[21:04] <DigitalFiz> danbh_intrepid, good quality i think ill be getting that camera :)
[21:05] <Astral_Projectio> hi, i just upgraded to intrepid, but i cannot start nm-applet
[21:06] <Astral_Projectio> goran@horus:~$ nm-applet
[21:06] <Astral_Projectio> it just hangs like this
[21:06] <Astral_Projectio> nothing happens
[21:06] <Zaiden> Have they fixed the issues with Pulseaudio in the 8.10 beta?
[21:07] <pen> Astral_Projectio, nm-applet not wotking at all?
[21:08] <Astral_Projectio> nope
[21:08] <lore20> hi, how to detect if my ethernet card is affected by e1000e firmware corruption issue
[21:08] <lore20> ?
[21:08] <Astral_Projectio> when i add network monitor applet to panel, gnome-netstatus-applet is started
[21:09] <danbh_intrepid> lore20: I think you should just keep updating
[21:09] <lore20> with lspci I see only the wifi adapter
[21:10] <lore20> no sorry, i see also ethernet
[21:11] <lore20> so Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/81689 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02)
[21:11] <lore20> is it affected?
[21:11] <hansin> pen: Where where did you get your alternative image from?  Was it for 1368?
[21:11] <danbh_intrepid> lore20: http://blogs.computerworld.com/when_linux_does_well_the_e1000e_ethernet_bug_fixed
[21:12] <pen> hansin, I didn't use the alt image
[21:12] <pen> hansin, but I think you can find it online
[21:12] <lore20> however in intrepid beta e1000e is blacklsited,isn't it?
[21:13] <Astral_Projectio> anyone?
[21:13]  * danbh_intrepid digs up his favorite bug for Astral_Projectio
[21:13] <lore20> danbh_intrepid, "This fix will be in the next pre-release version of the 2.6.27 kernel -- Linux 2.6.27-rc9 - on October 5th."
[21:14] <danbh_intrepid> bug/259157/
[21:14] <danbh_intrepid> bug 259157
[21:14] <Astral_Projectio> when i try sudo i get ** (nm-applet:24410): WARNING **: No connections defined
[21:14] <hansin> Okay, I was just checking because you stated 'it works flawlessly for me so fay'.  But since it sounds like you used the Live CD for you beta install, you would not ahve seen the issue I am having.  But for now, no one else is chiming in that they have had issue with the alternative install CD.
[21:14] <Astral_Projectio> i have ndis drivers
[21:15] <hansin> s/far
[21:17] <hansin> BTW, I am getting versed in Grub due to some of my install issues with various things (yeah, I triple boot and like to try out different things).  In the partion stage, at least on the text installer, I can choose if I want to set the partion as bootable.  I always leave the default 'no'.  If I pick yes, does it install a Grub onto the start of that partions, so I would then be able to chainload that partion?  Just not sure what settin
[21:24] <Astral_Projectio> i cannot set 'roaming' mode in network-admin
[21:24] <Astral_Projectio> i was able to do that on hardy
[21:30] <Cheery> hi
[21:31] <Cheery> my ubuntu keeps crashing without giving any kind of mark about it
[21:31] <Cheery> appeared few days ago.
[21:32] <Ayabara> Any known issues with dist-upgrading from 8.04 at the moment? I'm considering taking the plunge :)
[21:32] <Ayabara> !digikam-kde4
[21:32] <Ayabara> !info digikam-kde4
[21:32] <Ayabara> hm. that's ... old
[21:40] <berntsen> Ayabare: Just upgraded my desktop computer from 8.04 to 8.10 with update-manager. Had a problem with the rarian-compat oacgage which led to an unusable system.
[21:40] <Astral_Projectio> does someone know what is the name of package for font configuration for kde apps? (kcmshell fonts)?
[21:40] <berntsen> It's already marked as a bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rarian/+bug/256131
[21:41] <berntsen> Yes. Had to install rarian-compat explicitly using dpkg, then dpkg --configure -a. Now everything just a charm :-)
[21:47] <Ayabara> berntsen, thanks for the heads-up. if I don't know what rarian-compat is, should I be fine? :D
[21:48] <berntsen> Ayabara: Yes, as long as you follow the instructions at the link i posted.
[21:48] <Ayabara> berntsen, ok. thanks
[21:49] <hansin> Speaking of dist-upgrading, has there been a way developed to due this in a text console yet, other than changing the repo entries to intrepid?  I only ask because it was an issue in the past I think, that the upgrade manager only worked from the GUI.  Thanks.
[21:50] <hansin> I know changing the repos will get you the new packages, but it doesn't handle fro things like fundamental "core infrastructure" changes that may have occured, though I think "dummy" packages can help with some of that.
[21:50] <hansin> At least that is how I remembered it.
[21:51] <Ayabara> berntsen, should I download and install the rarian-compat package before I do the upgrade?
[21:54] <berntsen> Ayabara: Download the file first. I used update-manager first. At the end there's some error messages. I rebooted, went into a console (ctrl+f1), and then installed rarian-compat with dpkg --install <filename>. Then at last dpkg --configure -a. Reboot again and you should be up and running. Also remember to read the release notes before you start!
[21:54] <Cheery> hmm
[21:54] <Cheery> perhaps fixed my firefox trouble
[21:55] <Cheery> surprise surprise - it was flash
[21:55] <Cheery> flashblock solved the trouble
[21:55] <Ayabara> berntsen, tusen takk :)
[21:55] <Cheery> oh
[21:55] <Cheery> it didn't
[21:55] <Cheery> fuck
[21:55] <LjL> !language
[21:56] <Cheery> I don't know, this stupid thing keeps crashing even without any plugins involved
[21:56] <Cheery> LjL: thanks from mentioning foul language, perhaps I will learn to not use common curses at some point.
[21:57] <berntsen> Ayabara: værsågod :-)
[21:57] <Tamagotono> Does anyone else have duplicate entries when using lancelot menu plasmoid?
[21:58] <Cheery> http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210605582
[21:58] <Cheery> I can't believe they are still falling for that
[21:59] <Cheery> MS has never released an OS in schedule.
[22:00] <Cheery> wohoo!
[22:00] <Cheery> error log
[22:01] <berntsen> Cheery: what does it say?
[22:01] <Cheery> http://codepad.org/5j70rk5Y
[22:01] <berntsen> ok
[22:01] <Cheery> that occurs occassionally
[22:02] <berntsen> java plugin
[22:02] <Cheery> how to get rid from it?
[22:02] <Cheery> java is rarely used anywhere
[22:02] <Cheery> better yet...
[22:02] <Cheery> how to fix it? :)
[22:03] <Cheery> I believe that may be too much, so I just want to bomb it down for now
[22:04] <berntsen> Cheery: well, I don't know what plugin you're using. Try starting synaptic and search for gcj
[22:06] <Cheery> nothing found
[22:07] <berntsen> Cheery: nothing at all?
[22:07] <Cheery> nothing at all
[22:08] <berntsen> Cheery: that's kind of strange. When I search I get 7 pages or something that has gcj in it's name or description.
[22:08] <Cheery> hmm
[22:09] <Cheery> now it just did: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[22:10] <berntsen> Cheery: If you want to try to remove the plugin: Open a terminal and type "sudo apt-get remove gcjwebplugin"
[22:10] <Cheery> its not installed
[22:10] <Cheery> hmm
[22:11] <Cheery> installing it and seeing what happens
[22:11] <berntsen> Cheery: OK. Not icedtea-gjcwebpluigin either?
[22:12] <berntsen> icedtea-gcjwebplugin
[22:12] <Cheery> nope
[22:13] <Cheery> the worst thing is that it crashes randomly!
[22:13] <Cheery> I open it idle
[22:13] <Cheery> *crash*
[22:13] <Cheery> (after couple of minutes)
[22:13] <berntsen> Strange. nothing listed in firefox about:plugins either?
[22:14] <Cheery> all seems ok
[22:14] <Cheery> hm
[22:15] <Cheery> installing firefox 2.0
[22:15] <berntsen> ok. too bad i couldn't help
[22:17] <Cheery> I can't let my browser crash like a window during a chairthrowing spasm.
[22:20] <berntsen> Cheery: i understand. You are obviously not the only one with this problem. http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-471249.html
[22:23] <berntsen> gotta go. bye!
[22:23] <Cheery> I yet try removing my mozilla confs
[22:24] <Cheery> anyway, my firefox worked pretty well to some extent, then it started crashing frequently
[22:24] <berntsen> you could always check out swiftfox.
[22:24] <Cheery> no problem
[22:24] <Cheery> it feels like the problem went away
[22:24] <Cheery> but I can't be sure
[22:25] <Cheery> it may crash just right on when I'm going to say it's fixed. :)
[22:25] <Cheery> resulting in cursing and foxbashing
[22:26] <Cheery> hmm
[22:27] <Cheery> perhaps it truly works now
[22:27] <Cheery> well, going to sleep
[22:27] <Cheery> gn
[22:28] <D-Bo> Is there an Intrepid Ibex PS3 beta?
[22:30] <D-Bo> guess there is
[22:50] <dvoid_> ey
[22:56] <getxsick> python 2.6 is going to be distribute with 8.10 ?
[23:14] <DigitalFiz> danbh_intrepid, was that image you put up the image capture or the video? i know most cameras have better photo quality then video
[23:14] <danbh_intrepid> it was a screen shot of the video test
[23:15] <danbh_intrepid> cheese rarely works for me, and every other webcam package fails also, except ekiga
[23:21] <danbh_intrepid> meh, even ekiga is crashing.  You know, I think my install got hosed with that unitit whatever crash
[23:58] <skyjumper> for some reason, when using gdm and the nvidia driver, i get 15 (or so) seconds of black screen, the nvidia splash, then X dies, then again the black screen, over and over
[23:58] <skyjumper> however gdm seems fine with the vesa driver, and i can run X manually with nvidia just fine
[23:59] <comicinker> in beta, cryptsetup/luks seems to broken. did the packages change significantly?
[23:59] <RAOF> skyjumper: Can you pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log & possibly .log.old please?  After trying with nvidia, that is.
[23:59] <RAOF> comicinker: Works For Me(tm)
[23:59] <comicinker> RAOF: using luks?
[23:59] <skyjumper> RAOF: the log when running via gdm?


[01:40] <k_sze> What remote desktop solution shall I use with Xubuntu 12.04? freenx? neatx? x2go?
[01:40] <k_sze> (I want to access my Xubuntu desktop remotely, from Mac OS X and Windows machines).
[01:57] <ruien1> I recommend VNC personally.
[02:00] <ruien> specifically the "tightvncserver" package should work, and then there's TightVNC which works on linux and maybe Mac OS, as well as RealVNC on windows.
[02:00] <ruien> The VNC protocol is decent compared to the X protocol, and it's more secure - but that's what I've heard. I've only actually used VNC, and not the others.
[02:34] <thauriswulfa> HELP: how to set different wallpapers on different workspaces?
[03:43] <newb916> I was wondering what the difference between the "desktop" and "alternate" downloads are, and which one I should get.
[03:45] <newb916> and.... I'm figuring this out on my own through google.
[03:46] <newb916> problem solved.
[04:13] <kantoquad> hello I just installed 12.04 and unlike 11.10 with compiz , I have no window dressing compizz --replace does not work and window dressing is checked in the compiz manager, any idea
[04:21] <Sysi> kantoquad: install compiz-gnome (with --no-install-recommends)
[04:23] <kantoquad> will try that thanks
[04:24] <kantoquad> never heard of that but thanks Sysi
[04:24] <Sysi> then check that you have gtk-window-decorator set in compiz settings for providing window decorations
[04:24] <kantoquad> that is done
[04:31] <kantoquad> that did not work Sysi , obly chromw has minimize and maximize buttons
[04:32] <kantoquad> I did change the window decorator command based on a blog
[04:32] <kantoquad> earlier
[04:34] <kantoquad> and that was the issue Sysi
[04:34] <kantoquad> Thanks a lot
[04:47] <tom12> i have installed but cant nd it in menus to allow remote access ... what have i not done?
[04:48] <tom12> *desktop sharing
[04:49] <tom12> i have installed desktop sharing but cant find it in menus to allow remote access ... what have i not done?
[04:51] <tom12> anyone any ideas?
[06:26] <lucky86> hi all
[06:27] <lucky86> I just upgraded to xfce 8.10 now the system wont boot
[06:27] <lucky86> any advise on how to proceede would be appriciated
[06:29] <astraljava> lucky86: [4].10 isn't officially supported on any of the current stable releases. Try #ubuntu+1 for help.
[06:30] <lucky86> I kinda knew i was stepping in it when i started thanks
[07:49] <xubuntu053> Hi, I'm trying to install xubuntu on a spare Harddisk which is not formatted on a XP computer, Xubuntu install screen sees the sare harddisk and asks to partition a main and make a swap partition but could not finish
[07:50] <xubuntu053> The spare HD has been controlled and in working condition
[07:58] <ruien> do you get any errors?
[07:58] <xubuntu053> the bar mentioning the spare is orange not green, it says no operating system is foound
[07:59] <ruien> that seems odd; the partitioner should never care about that. Are you doing the advanced "partition it myself" option?
[07:59] <ruien> seems like all you need is one partition for / and another smaller one for swap and that's it
[08:00] <xubuntu053> yes I did partition 18 gb for / and 2 gb for swap
[08:00] <xubuntu053> which system should I choose? fat32 or ...
[08:01] <Sysi> ext4
[08:01] <xubuntu053> tried ext4 also...
[08:02] <xubuntu053> any other setting should I make
[08:03] <ruien> ext3?
[08:03] <ruien> in any case you only want ext3 or ext4
[08:04] <xubuntu053> thanks, I'll try once more and if cannot finish, will come back for more advice from you guys, cheers.
[08:04] <ruien> you can also use gparted
[08:04] <ruien> i.e. boot from the ubuntu disk / usb drive
[08:04] <ruien> then use gparted if you want to partition stuff manually
[08:04] <xubuntu053> yes?
[08:04] <ruien> I really like gparted, personally.
[08:05] <xubuntu053> I ll have a look at gparted... thanks
[08:05] <ruien> good luck
[10:03] <modembrr> hello who can help?
[10:03] <ochosi> !hello
[10:04] <ochosi> !hi
[10:04] <epzil0n> :)
[10:06] <baizon> !hi | modembrr
[10:08] <modembrr> had difficulty using login and password, for example, I log on Xubuntu session, but when installing new software, I get to deal with the problem log. I recorded several times the same password and if you are lucky the 5 - or 10 times I can login.hello
[10:10] <modembrr> !lv
[10:12] <magnus_> is there away to change the xfce terminal title, from the command line, rather than through the gui. Like when you ssh into a server, it changes to the remote host user@host?
[10:14] <astraljava> magnus_: This one is for GNOME terminal, but it's a standard method. http://askubuntu.com/questions/22413/how-to-change-gnome-terminal-title
[10:15]  * magnus_ looks
[10:36] <xubuntu214> hello! i just switched from Ubuntu 11.04 to Xubuntu 12.04. So far everything was great, but any/all USB drives don't stay mounted. they are automounted, and when i browse them, they shortly-thereafter disappear
[10:37] <xubuntu214> nor does it seem Xubuntu comes with a graphical disk utlity.
[10:38] <xubuntu214> ...any ideas?
[10:38] <baizon> xubuntu214: check dmesg
[10:38] <laite> xubuntu214: you can install gnome-disk-utility from software center/synaptic
[10:38] <baizon> you can use the ubuntu disk utility
[10:39] <xubuntu214> everytime it happens, i've done a full shutdown (to turn off the USB drive). i'm afraid if i keep doing it, i'll lose 200gb+ worth of data on the drive
[10:40] <xubuntu214> i'm not sure what i'm looking for in dmesg
[10:40] <baizon> xubuntu214: usb messages
[10:41] <baizon> that indicates for problems
[10:44] <xubuntu214> how far back does dmesg go?
[10:44] <xubuntu214> just from the most recent boot?
[10:44] <xubuntu214> i haven't connected it this time around (i was ssearching dmesg for previous bootups)
[10:44] <xubuntu214> but there's a lot in there
[10:48] <laite> xubuntu214: command 'dmesg | greb i- usb' shows only lines which mention word 'usb' (or 'USB')
[10:48] <xubuntu214> alright, ive just connected it, and run dmesg
[10:48] <laite> sorry, 'dmesg | grep -i usb'
[10:49] <laite> typos :/
[10:49] <xubuntu214> so far so good
[10:49] <xubuntu214> no worries
[10:49] <xubuntu214> it says its connected
[10:49] <xubuntu214> can i copy/paste info in here, or is that too much?
[10:50] <laite> you should propably use pastebin
[10:50] <laite> sorry, I gotta go, be back later
[10:50] <xubuntu214> k
[10:56] <xubuntu214> okay, error seems to occur @ line 31: http://pastebin.com/ppA4rTHZ
[10:57] <xubuntu214> any ideas GREATLY appreciated
[10:57] <xubuntu214> (to be sure, all usb drives worked--flawlessly--when i used ubuntu 11.04)
[11:17] <martinphone> do I lose quality if I format a m2ts file 4gb to a mkv one 3.7gb?
[11:18] <xubuntu214> fyi: i think this is my solution: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11882892
[11:18] <xubuntu214> thx all!
[12:55] <Belserusk> Why is Xubuntu so low in distrowatch ranking? Xfce is an excellent DE.
[13:07] <aquix> distrowatch ranking is not dogma and not important. If you happy with a distro, your happy
[13:12] <erik32533> i have question on xubuntu install
[13:12] <Belserusk> Why is Xubuntu so low in distrowatch ranking? Xfce is an excellent DE.
[13:14] <magnus_> Belserusk: agreed
[13:15] <Belserusk> magnus_, Why do you think is low in the ranking? Currently #27
[13:15] <magnus_> main stream like bells and whistles
[13:18] <astraljava> Belserusk: What has this to do with support? Please take this elsewhere, like -offtopic or something.
[13:18] <ochosi> ask! | erik32533
[13:18] <ochosi> meh
[13:18] <ochosi> !ask | erik32533
[13:18] <ochosi> :)
[13:19] <erik32533> xubuntu 11.10 i use live cd get to desktop
[13:19] <erik32533> it wont get past preparing to install
[13:22] <erik32533> any idea?
[13:43] <Belserusk> Does Xfce have a reload feature such as Cinnamon's Alt-F2 then typing 'r'  ?
[18:44] <w30> What's the program that lets Thunar resolve network:///    ?
[18:46] <w30> I want to put it on another box but I forgot what the app is? It gives you a Network folder in the left menu bar too.
[18:47] <w30> in Thunar
[18:54] <Unit193> gvfs-backends, iirc.
[19:59] <w30> What's the program that lets Thunar resolve network:///    ?
[20:00] <w30> I want to put it on another box but I forgot what the app is? It gives you a Network folder in the left menu bar too.
[20:00] <w30> in Thunar
[20:00] <pleia2> w30: did you try Unit193's answer?
[20:00] <pleia2> he suggested gvfs-backends
[20:00] <w30> pleia2, nope, net went down for a sec and did not get reply
[20:01] <w30> pleia2, yeah, thats it thanks
[20:01] <pleia2> welcome :)
[20:10] <AL_Kernell> hello all
[20:11] <AL_Kernell> anybody here also had problems with mouse acceleration ?
[20:11] <AL_Kernell> I managed to kill completly my Razer DeathAdder accelleration,   but now I would like to decrease the speed...
[20:12] <AL_Kernell> can't find a solution to this..
[20:12] <AL_Kernell> =[
[20:12] <AL_Kernell> must be very simple,   "speed" only...
[20:12] <AL_Kernell> all the dummy awnsers I got is by changing accell properties... (with I have just killed)
[21:37] <n2diy> Where'd they hide mozilla, firefox, and bookmarks? I just upgraded from 10.10, and they aren't where they used to be. Locate left me confused?


[15:13] <cnd> johanbr, yes, multitouch gestures should work on all multitouch trackpads
[15:28] <johanbr> cnd, oh... they don't work for me on a synaptics clickpad
[15:28] <cnd> johanbr, are you sure your clickpad is multitouch?
[15:28] <cnd> xinput list --long | pastebinit
[15:29] <johanbr> it's advertised as such anyway...
[15:29] <johanbr> alright, just a sec
[15:30] <johanbr> hmm, xchat crashed on me...
[15:31] <johanbr> cnd, http://paste.ubuntu.com/992536/
[15:31] <cnd> johanbr, ok, it's multitouch, but it only provides two touches
[15:31] <cnd> which synaptics doesn't let through if you have two-touch scrolling or tap-to-click enabled
[15:32] <johanbr> oh, I see, that explains things...
[15:32] <cnd> notice the "Max number of touches"
[15:32] <johanbr> right...
[15:33] <cnd> feel free to complain to Synaptics :)
[15:34] <johanbr> :)
[15:37] <johanbr> but thank you for the explanation!
[16:46] <JanC> cnd: does that mean people get more or less functionality if they disable 2-touch scrolling & tap-to-click?
[16:46] <JanC> or just different functionality?
[16:50] <cnd> JanC, well, not many applications have support for two-touch gestures yet
[16:50] <cnd> so the answer right now is that you get less functionality
[17:02] <JanC> or that it depends on the applications you use, I suppose
[17:02] <JanC> but less on average
[17:03] <JanC> wouldn't it be possible to implement "general gestures" (like scrolling) using some automatic compatibility layer?
[17:18] <cnd> JanC, heh, yes
[17:18] <cnd> we've been trying to think of sane ways to do that
[17:18] <cnd> from ld preload wrappers
[17:18] <cnd> to inserting logic into core X client libraries
[17:18] <cnd> to other terrible things that one should never do
[17:19] <cnd> alternatively, we could just support mainstream toolkits like qt and gtk and leave the rest to wallow in their unscrollingness
[17:19] <cnd> but we'd have to support ff, lo, chromium, too
[17:26] <JanC> I think that e.g. Windows mouse drivers for early scroll mice did some emulation like that, but I don't remember whether they used emulated keypresses (for scrolling) or something else
[22:15] <bryceh> mlankhor1t, RAOF, tjaalton: ppa for the lts backports @ https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
[22:15] <bryceh> I added timg so he can start pumping in kernels


[05:27] <valorie> boo, this is not us, is it? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=333185
[05:27] <valorie> Jacky confirmed it
[05:59] <Mirv> yofel: Riddell: if you have qdbus installed (the qt4 version), and you call qdbus -qt4, it should always work
[05:59] <Mirv> that's same as QT_SELECT=qt4 qdbus, ie both override default.conf coming from qt5-default
[06:17] <soee> good morning
[07:33] <apachelogger> allee: I do not see any crash submissions regarding dolphin
[07:34] <valorie> I just posted mine, apachelogger
[07:35] <valorie> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=333185
[07:35] <apachelogger> ah yeah
[07:35] <apachelogger> valorie: not ours
[07:35]  * apachelogger forgot to reply ^^
[07:36] <valorie> that's good
[07:36] <apachelogger> or well, the master bug is not
[07:36] <apachelogger> #12 0x00007f4931bea7e9 in ?? () from /usr/lib/kde4/fileviewdropboxplugin.so
[07:36] <apachelogger> definitely crashes in a 3rd party thing
[07:38] <valorie> quick response on a bug report; me likey
[07:43] <yofel> Mirv: that's not much of a solution unless we do that for every call of 'qdbus' that are scattered over the system
[07:45] <Mirv> right, I've no understanding of the amount of qdbus calls around
[07:46] <Mirv> the ugly hack would be to depend on both qdbus-qt5 and qdbus packages... as suggested that the qt5 version is compatible
[07:47] <yofel> Mirv: would it be acceptable for qt5-default to recommend qdbus-qt5?
[07:47] <yofel> until we have a better solution
[07:47] <Mirv> yofel: I think mostly only if you convince pkg-kde to do so too.. they'll have the same problem, it's just that in Debian not too many people yet install qt5-default
[07:48] <yofel> hm :/
[07:48] <yofel> depending on qdbus-qt5 would mean seeding qt5 on our images, which I would prefer not to - at least for trusty
[07:51] <yofel> Mirv: ok, lets see what they say for now, I'm over there too anyway
[07:52] <yofel> thanks
[07:52] <Mirv> yes I noticed :)
[08:28] <apachelogger> hm
[08:28] <apachelogger> !info akonadi trusty
[08:28] <apachelogger> !info akonadi-server trusty
[08:29] <apachelogger> (we can't possibly name the binary package akonadi, that would almost make sense)
[08:29] <apachelogger> also bzr is out of sync
[08:29] <apachelogger> \o/
[08:29] <jussi> calligra flow is not a totally bad app, but it needs some decent basic flow chart defaults - its such a mass of random symbols, its very hard to get anything done.
[08:30] <apachelogger> jussi: I think you are supposed to tell the calligra developers
[08:30] <Riddell> it's pretty badly maintained is calligra flow, was made by The Kompany back in the day and abandoned when nobody bought templates
[08:30] <jussi> apachelogger: yes, that too. However, people here actually listen to me :P
[08:31] <jussi> so, anyone got alternate apps?
[08:31] <Riddell> dia
[08:31] <apachelogger> support happens elsewhere :O
[08:32] <jussi> Riddell: sadly dia is poor also. guess Ill go and use $onlinething
[08:40] <jussi> right, so this random java thing called "yed" looks the goods. lets see.
[08:44] <apachelogger>   Uploading akonadi_1.12.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[08:44] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[08:44] <apachelogger> new upstream release, fixing bugsery
[08:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: ^
[08:53] <sibe> Hello
[08:53] <sibe> bug of libreoffice-kde !
[08:53] <sibe> on 14.04
[08:58] <apachelogger> exciting
[09:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: are you able to look at bcooksley's complaint? [kde-packager] Shipping by distributions of non-KDE distributed components
[09:22] <apachelogger> I did, stuck in moderation
[09:48]  * apachelogger squints
[09:49] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I think the upgrader is drunk
[09:49] <apachelogger> also python ftw
[09:49] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Why am I suddenly drunk?
[09:49] <apachelogger> because you have been drinking
[09:49] <apachelogger> clearly
[09:50] <apachelogger> why else would you try to encode unicode as ascii :P
[09:50] <apachelogger> Quintasan: report bug I guess
[09:51] <Quintasan> well
[09:51] <Quintasan> ask do-release-upgrade
[09:51] <Quintasan> what it is trying to do.
[09:51] <apachelogger> https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?65105-Unable-to-start-Dr-Konqi :O
[09:51] <apachelogger> Quintasan: it's trying to encode utf8 as ascii
[09:51] <apachelogger> as the error states
[09:52] <Quintasan> That I can understand, the question is why it tries to do that
[09:52] <apachelogger> the reason it does that is because python is such a fancy language it manages to fall over text encoding in 2014
[09:53] <Quintasan> >Python
[09:53] <Quintasan> I just don't want to touch it.
[09:53] <apachelogger> I did not tell you to touch it, did I
[10:04]  * apachelogger hits the regression alert button
[10:07] <apachelogger>   Uploading kubuntu-driver-manager_14.04ubuntu7_source.changes: done.
[10:07] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[10:07] <apachelogger> fixes notification spam issue
[10:07] <Riddell> yay!
[10:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: what's the regression alert?
[10:08] <apachelogger> the thing I fixed
[10:08] <Riddell> phew
[10:08] <apachelogger> persistency got lost in the refactoring I did a while ago
[11:05] <allee> apachelogger: the dolphin crash was fixed interactively here in IRC.  Yesterdays commit in baloo KDE/4.13 is the result and fixes the crash here as I could confirm
[11:05] <allee> apachelogger: no dolphin rebuild was necessary
[11:06] <apachelogger> allee: oh, a commit we don't have in the packaging yet?
[11:08] <allee> apachelogger: upps, right.    Sorry
[11:08] <apachelogger> 707f61f3c4134b64bdd923cf4dc5199219b79c01?
[11:08] <allee> *too
[11:08] <apachelogger> kde bug 332403
[11:10] <allee> apachelogger: yes, 707f61f3c4134b64bdd923cf4dc5199219b79c01
[11:10] <apachelogger> importing
[11:11] <apachelogger> allee: I wasn't going to import baloo today FWIW ^^
[11:12] <allee> apachelogger: side question: is here a tool to create a orig.tar + patch from a git  repo?  I did everything yesterday the step by stop way :-(
[11:12] <allee> apachelogger: me culpa
[11:13] <apachelogger> allee: nope
[11:14] <apachelogger> you could easily script something though... pull-lp-source will get you the latest source package, git clone && git diff v4.13.97 will give you the diff to rc1
[11:15] <allee> apachelogger: k
[11:17] <apachelogger> allee: you could also simply tar the git repo though ;)
[11:18] <apachelogger> shouldn't really make a difference for local usage
[11:20] <apachelogger> Mirv, yofel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/827815/comments/14 couldn't qtchooser simply try the other version when the exctuable cannot be found?
[11:20] <allee> apachelogger: that's what I did (without .git/) but it's a tendious job to get with versions and _ versus - ;-)
[11:20] <yofel> sune made a good point that that's a rather bad idea for stuff like qmake, moc, ...
[11:20] <apachelogger> I mean, chances are the user will have some qdbus installed, qtchooser just doesn't seem to do a very good job at finidng the right one
[11:20] <yofel> he wanted to think about what to do, hasn't responded yet
[11:21] <apachelogger> yofel: qdbus exclusive then :P
[11:21] <yofel> apachelogger: https://codereview.qt-project.org/82702
[11:21] <apachelogger> this thing is as much a mess as the alternative solution before, except now it's upstream :P
[11:22] <apachelogger> IMHO qt should just version their tool names and be done with it, if I only support qdbus4 then I'll call qdbus4 etc. ;)
[11:23] <yofel> well, that's what qdbus -qt4 does, and wouldn't help us in the current situation at all
[11:23] <yofel> at least not to implement that now
[11:23] <apachelogger> allee: by strip/grep/sedding dpkg-parsechangelog you should be able to get the version
[11:23] <apachelogger> alternatively a sed on debian/changelog I guess
[11:24] <apachelogger> yofel: sure, startkde would then call qdbus4 :P
[11:25] <yofel> yeah, if that's how it already was, it would've been great
[11:25] <yofel> and calling the new one qdbus5 would've already helped
[11:25] <yofel> but nobody seemed interested
[11:25] <apachelogger>   Uploading baloo_4.12.97-0ubuntu3_source.changes: done.
[11:25] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[11:26] <apachelogger> fixes crasheroo when rating stuff in dolphin
[11:27] <apachelogger>   Uploading kde-runtime_4.12.97-0ubuntu3_source.changes: done.
[11:27] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[11:27] <apachelogger> git commit import + disabling gpg kwallet again
[11:28] <apachelogger> yofel: why doesn't the default package depend the tools btw?
[11:29] <apachelogger> or well, recommend at least
[11:29] <yofel> I don't know. The currently best solution I guess would be to have qt5-default recommend qdbus-qt5. Again waiting on sune to respond
[11:29] <apachelogger> seems to me if I install qt5-default manually I'll have broken my setup
[11:29] <yofel> in kubuntu, sure
[11:30] <apachelogger> and OTOH if both default packages actually depended on the actual tool packages we coudl also ensure a working startkde
[11:30] <apachelogger> i.e. we'd seed qt4-default on the ISO (making sure qdbus4 is there)
[11:31] <apachelogger> if the user then installs qt5-default because of qtcreator or something they will continue to have a qdbus because it in turn pulls in qdbus5
[11:51] <Mirv> apachelogger: I think your idea of a qdbus specific qtchooser patch is not a bad one, since qtchooser is cheap to rebuild
[11:52] <kitterma> apachelogger: Thanks.  Accepted along with your other stuff.
[11:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: thx
[11:58] <sgclark> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7221266/
[12:04] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:04] <sgclark> hello
[12:04] <lordievader> o/
[12:08] <apachelogger> valorie: docs languages apparently didn't increase :(
[12:34] <jarkko> huge amount of upgrades
[12:34] <jarkko> were they released today?
[12:47] <apachelogger>   Uploading kubuntu-docs_14.04ubuntu6_source.changes: done.
[12:47] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[12:47] <apachelogger> final export
[12:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh cool, do you have ideas on how best to update docs.kubuntu.org?
[12:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: can you export be automated or is there some manual steps to it?
[12:48] <apachelogger> not a clue
[12:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: automated
[12:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: so we should be able to automate docs.kubuntu.org
[12:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: kde:scratch/sitter/kubuntu-docs
[12:48] <apachelogger> checkout export.sh
[12:49] <apachelogger> it's how the docbook gets generated
[12:49] <Riddell> then I expect some meinproc needed to make the html
[12:49] <apachelogger> you could probably write a script based on pull-lp-source and generate the html from the docbook though
[12:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: yeah
[12:49] <Riddell> hmm that's an idea
[12:50] <Riddell> would mean docs.kubuntu.org doesn't get turned into spam if someone spams the wiki
[12:50] <apachelogger> yeah
[12:50] <apachelogger> plus since we only have release versions there anyway, it makes sense to generate from the actual package
[13:12] <Striezl> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Support
[13:12] <Striezl> how can i help you
[13:12] <Striezl> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved
[13:22] <Riddell> oh, he didn't hang around long :(
[13:39] <sgclark> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7221266/
[13:42] <lordievader> I suppose it is know, but docs.kubutu.co.uk is broken [1], also docs.kubuntu.com exists but shows an apache test page. [1] http://docs.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation.html
[13:43] <Riddell> sgclark: a problem for someone experienced in perl plugin libaries to worry about, nobody here really has the skills to know why they're missing, fine to ignore for now
[13:43] <Riddell> lordievader: http://docs.kubuntu.org is the right place to use, are there any links to the other domains?
[13:44] <sgclark> Riddell: ok ty
[13:44] <lordievader> Riddell: Hope not, I honestly thought it was docs.kubu.co.uk, that's why I went there.
[13:45] <lordievader> But the .org has the same problem: http://docs.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs.html
[13:45] <sgclark> Riddell: is this what you had in mind for that automation script? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7221641/
[13:45] <Riddell> lordievader: what's the problem?
[13:46] <Riddell> sgclark: yes, does that do it? don't you need to edit the .install file?
[13:46] <Riddell> oh you added it in, I see
[13:46] <lordievader> Riddell: Installation page is blank and quite a few links give 404's.
[13:46] <sgclark> Riddell: no, once I added that to control all built
[13:47] <Riddell> lordievader: hmm right, it needs replaced with new documentation anyway, volunteers welcome, just some scripting needed
[13:47] <lordievader> Riddell: I know, just thought I'd mention it.
[13:47] <Riddell> sgclark: okay great, can you commit to kubuntu-automation?
[13:48] <sgclark> Riddell: I don't know, I can try
[13:52] <sgclark> Riddell: in the main folder?
[13:53] <yofel> sgclark: same place as the other hooks are
[13:54] <sgclark> yofel: ok ty
[13:54] <yofel> it needs to have the right name and place for kubuntu-batch-backport to find it
[13:56] <sgclark> I named it perlkde-saucy
[13:56] <sgclark> which is consistant with the other files in there
[13:57] <yofel> yeah, sounds correct
[13:57] <sgclark> commited :)
[13:58] <yofel> hm, wrong folder I think. 4.13 isn't stable yet
[13:59] <yofel> then again
[13:59]  * yofel reads logs
[13:59] <Riddell> yeah should be in unstable
[14:00] <Riddell> should probably also have chmod 755
[14:00] <Riddell> sgclark: bzr mv ?
[14:00] <yofel> ah right, needs +x as well
[14:02] <sgclark> oops ok
[14:02] <yofel> yeah, wrong folder. Rohan changed the package list for saucy, but the hooks are still in unstable
[14:04] <sgclark> ok bzr mv and chmod complete
[14:05] <yofel> correct now
[14:06] <yofel> stable/unstable here matches the folder on depot.kde.org that the release is in
[14:06] <yofel> not that kf5 or plasma next were considered when we did that ^^
[14:12] <apachelogger> yofel: does neon somehow force the dbus session into the neon envrionment?
[14:13] <apachelogger> i.e. systemwise dbus would be started such that it only looks for services in /usr/share, however since neon installs to opt the session bus needs to be started from inside the envrionment
[14:13] <yofel> I don't think we do that. The init script should have the old dbus-daemon init code from the old kdedev examples, but commented out
[14:13] <apachelogger> mh, ok
[14:13] <yofel> I vaguely remember rohan debugging some dbus issues long ago
[14:14] <yofel> but I don't think we came very far
[14:14] <apachelogger> we're looking for a solution for neon5 right now
[14:14] <apachelogger> apparently something autoinjects /usr/share/project-neon5 as a possible data path
[14:14] <apachelogger> so we could symlink there
[14:14] <apachelogger> or we forcefully start a second session bus from inside startneon5
[14:17] <Riddell> morning shadeslayer, where are you this week?
[14:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: he's away for the week
[14:20]  * yofel seriously wonders if neon4 should just get wrapped up
[14:20] <yofel> Trusty is completely busted and I personally don't have the time to fix it in the near future.
[14:20] <yofel> apachelogger: also, what's your plan for mixed environments like we'll have with plasma next but kdelibs based kstars or so
[14:20] <yofel> leave them seperate?
[14:23] <apachelogger> yofel: well, the kde4 stuff would be wrapped by the containment, except for kdehome
[14:23] <apachelogger> come to think of it not setting the legacy vars possibly is a bad thing
[14:23] <apachelogger> otherwise the entire session would be contained into .project-neon5-kde
[14:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: I know, I'm being nosey and asking where
[14:41] <jose> Riddell: ping, IS is asking if the new CMS (wp) is going to be hosted by them?
[14:41] <Riddell> jose: no we plan to host it ourselves
[14:41] <jose> thank you
[14:48] <Riddell> debfx: fix for bug 1293704 uploaded, thanks!
[14:48] <Riddell> ScottK: you're a kmail user, any sign of bug 1290307 ?
[14:48] <Riddell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/1290307 "Local Folders: Error: Unsupported Type."
[14:51] <Riddell> jose: thanks for poking him :)
[14:51] <jose> Riddell: np, it's always good to have a dose of IS rejection from time to time :P
[14:52] <Riddell> gosh, final freeze in 2 days!
[14:52] <jose> there's 5 open/new tickets on my bookmarks atm
[14:52] <jose> yeah!
[14:52] <jose> time's passed quickly
[14:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: the kleopatra thing is in gpgme a change by pitti from october or so
[14:54] <apachelogger> where he did some gpg1 stuff I did not understand which had as fallout that the pits kleopatra wants are not built anymore
[14:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: I know, debfx found a fix which I just tested and uploaded
[14:55] <apachelogger> ok
[15:30] <Riddell> ScottK: kde-workspace has a change from doko..
[15:30] <Riddell> "+  * plasma-scriptengines: Remove the dependency on plasma-scriptengine-ruby.
[15:30] <Riddell> +    Still depends on ruby1.8 which won't be available in trusty.
[15:30] <Riddell> ScottK: is that still true?
[15:30] <Riddell> "
[15:30] <jose> Riddell: DB dump is on ovidiu-florin's inbox (as well as mine), do you need a copy?
[15:30] <Riddell> well it's true but you fixed it to not use ruby1.8 right?
[15:30] <jose> Riddell: do we need files as well?
[15:30] <Riddell> jose: cool, no I trust ovidiu :)
[15:30] <Riddell> jose: meaning attached files on pages?  yes probably
[15:31] <Riddell> shadeslayer, yofel: I've gone with the local QT_SELECT=qt4 qdbus in startkde for now
[15:32] <yofel> k, that's the worst occurance at least
[16:02] <jose> ok, I have all the files that are on the current instance atm
[16:08] <Riddell> jose: current instance?
[16:08] <jose> drupal
[16:09] <jose> the current site
[16:14] <Riddell> jose: yes but how could we download them?
[16:14] <jose> Riddell: oh, I have the file, it's a bit heavy - 145MB, I can send it to anyone who needs it
[16:15] <Riddell> jose: ok cool
[16:15] <jose> want me to email it to you?
[16:15] <Riddell> jose: copy it do the new server I guess, you don't have an account do you?
[16:15] <jose> nope, I don't
[16:15] <Riddell> no! 145MB e-mails are scary!
[16:15] <jose> lol
[16:17] <Riddell> jose: what preferred username and ssh key for server?
[16:17] <jose> Riddell: joseeantonior for username, and SSH key should be the one at https://launchpad.net/~jose/+sshkeys
[16:19] <Riddell> jose<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:20] <jose> I'm in
[16:21] <jose> scp'ing the file over there
[16:23] <jose> wow, it says it's going to take a couple hours - let's just hope my connection doesn't go down
[17:59] <sgclark> Riddell: kde-workspace-kf5 so far https://spideroak.com/browse/share/Kubuntu/kubuntu_packaging/Pictures/
[18:00] <sgclark> Riddell: trying to get knewstuff working now
[18:27] <sgclark> Riddell: perlkde saucy https://launchpad.net/~scarlett-7/+archive/kubuntu-ppa/+packages
[20:39] <jose> Riddell: the file has been scp'd onto the server
[21:50] <Sput> apachelogger: is 1299872 resolved now with the gstreamer thingy?
[22:12] <ScottK> Riddell: get that all the time in saucy.
[22:12] <ScottK> Riddell: I think the Ruby thing is fixed.


[00:39] <doko> if we want the breaks, then the breaks should be against the binary package that all other binaries built from the same source depend on
[00:40] <doko> so we have to wait for the build until Thu evening, and we don't want to copy these to -security on Friday? Does this mean the copy won't happen before Monday?
[00:45] <vorlon> Thursday evening> it wouldn't be Thursday evening here, if it's a 12h build
[00:46] <vorlon> 10h from now would be mid-morning European time
[00:50] <doko> let's see
[00:50] <doko> I'll join the meeting tonight
[13:33] <tdaitx> "then the breaks should be against the binary package that all other binaries built from the same source depend on" ok, but why? where I can see more of that, I did search but I don't remember seeing how Breaks should be written
[13:33] <tdaitx> in our particular case, the other binaries do not use the conffiles, so when loading eg libjetty9-java one needs to provide the configuration to it
[13:33] <tdaitx> libjetty9-java is not going to look at /etc/jetty/blah, and if it did then we would have to move the conffile to it
[13:33] <tdaitx> whatever is loading libjetty9-java should not expect to be able to use the conffile if it does not depend on jetty9 (which is the package with the conffiles)
[13:39] <tdaitx> thus, why breaks on any other package? it would make sense if we were adding the breaks because of code incompatibility, but we never tested if the previous libjetty9-java would or would not load with our new openjdk-11, we only know that for sure about jetty9 itself (same for all other packages in this list)
[15:11] <tdaitx> doko: vorlon: ^ so what should be done about Breaks?
[15:12] <doko> tdaitx: I copied your upload to the proposed pockets
[15:13] <tdaitx> yeah I saw that and it does not match what you said earlier
[15:14] <tdaitx> so I am a bit confused =)
[15:21] <doko> ?
[16:11] <vorlon> tdaitx: we're ok as long as u-u does not calculate (based on package relationships) that it is allowed to upgrade openjdk-lts, while holding back a package with a conffile conflict, resulting in the old version of that package being broken due to runtime incompatibilities
[16:11] <vorlon> so a direct Breaks: against the packages shipping the conffiles should suffice
[16:29] <tdaitx> yes, that was my understanding, but that is not the same as "then the breaks should be against the binary package that all other binaries built from the same source depend on"
[16:35] <tdaitx> what I mean is, the Breaks that I proposed and were uploaded:
[16:35] <tdaitx> 1) do satisfy "u-u does not calculate (based on package relationships) that it is allowed to upgrade openjdk-lts, while holding back a package with a conffile conflict, resulting in the old version of that package being broken due to runtime incompatibilities"
[16:35] <tdaitx> 2) do *not* satisfy "then the breaks should be against the binary package that all other binaries built from the same source depend on"
[16:39] <vorlon> tdaitx: right. I'm saying that I think what you've done is fine, and if there is any case where users still end up broken, that means the inter-binary dependencies within the other packages are wrong and we should fix those instead of having to re-upload openjdk-lts
[16:40] <tdaitx> yeah, that
[16:40] <tdaitx> yeah, that is what I was thinking about
[16:40] <tdaitx> thanks
[18:08] <sbeattie> vorlon: if we wait until monday to publish, is that going to mess with the disco release freeze?
[18:09] <vorlon> sbeattie: no, it just shortens the runway between this going out and the next openjdk security update having to follow
[18:11] <vorlon> sbeattie: I have no concerns from this side about pushing it out today, however, provided we get to the end of the list of checks. do you?
[18:12] <vorlon> I'm manually retriggering the libreoffice/bionic autopkgtests now
[18:13] <vorlon> (they had to be manually retriggered for the last one, so that's nothing I'm concerned about)
[18:13] <sbeattie> if there are regressions we've overlooked, I'm a little leery of trying to hurridly push fixes on a friday, for as large a transition as we are doing.
[18:13] <vorlon> ok, I'd defer to you
[18:14] <vorlon> for SRUs we treat Thursday as the cutoff in order to give us Friday as margin
[18:14] <vorlon> (with the weekend in extraordinary cases)
[18:18] <sbeattie> vorlon: yeah, same for security team; however, the scale here is a little larger than normal, and I'd really rather none of us were working over the weekend on it.
[18:31] <huehner> tdaitx: i just notice finally you reverted the tomcat8.service topic? and went back to init-script for the bionic sru?
[19:24] <tdaitx> huehner: yes, we decided to revert it, bionic was initially released with the initd script and never got the systemd service (compared to cosmic which had the systemd update)
[19:26] <tdaitx> this makes the update much less disruptive (for users) and easier to handle (for us)
[19:34] <vorlon> gaughen: ^^ note the preference from sbeattie for deferring the release until Monday
[19:46] <tdaitx> vorlon: gaughen: sbeattie: that and the fact that we wanted to give people some heads up before the actual change, right?
[19:46] <tdaitx> but that means the notice would have to be released either today or tomorrow
[20:12] <sbeattie> advance warning would be good, too, yes.
[20:15] <huehner> tdaitx: better for sru i agree. maybe i should been a bit louder about same topic (see pasetbin link from yesterday i send you) some weeks ago ;)
[20:15] <huehner> tdaitx: will try to retest on latest proposed tomorrow or over the weekend fomr our side
[20:40] <tdaitx> huehner: ok, thanks, indeed, eveything you addressed on that pastebin is fixed by removing the systemd.service and relying on the initd script
[20:43] <huehner> tdaitx: seen, thanks for the work. than we can revisit that more calmly for 20.04


[03:48] <robert_ancell> So, since mir_surface_set_event_handler has completely changed what's the correct method to ifdef this so code compiles on both versions of Mir?
[04:09] <robert_ancell> Yeah, so it looks like no-one is updating mir_toolkit/version.h
[04:13] <robert_ancell> Same goes for MirEvent
[05:37] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what's the correct way  to handle Mir events in the main thread now?
[05:39] <robert_ancell> And if the answer is no change, how do I copy events now the structure is opaque?
[14:35] <alan_g> kdub: @"eglMakeCurrent(egldisplay, EGL_NO_SURFACE, EGL_NO_SURFACE, eglctx)" - I thought (probably wrongly) that eglctx was needed for updateAnimation()
[14:40] <kdub> looking again
[14:41] <kdub> alan_g, no, doesn't look like its needed for that
[14:42] <kdub> it probably doesn't hurt though, because if the context is still current, the lifetime is extended past eglDestroy context, until the context is no longer current
[14:43] <kdub> but... it doesn't call eglDestroyContext() anyways :)
[14:51] <tsdgeos> guys
[14:52] <tsdgeos> what's up with mir_input_event_get_touch_event vs mir_input_event_get_touch_input_event ?
[14:52] <tsdgeos> which one should we be using?
[14:52] <tsdgeos> because qtubuntu seems to be using one but the other seems to exist
[14:52] <tsdgeos> there was a rename recently?
[14:54] <tsdgeos> kgunn: anyone that can know this stuff? ↑↑↑↑
[14:58] <dandrader> tsdgeos, there was a refactoring in the input events, but it all landed a month ago or so
[14:58] <tsdgeos> dandrader: maybe we have not updated qtubuntu to use those correctly?
[14:58] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yes, maybe
[14:58] <tsdgeos> dandrader: i.e. can you build qtubuntu?
[14:59] <tedg> Seems that the autopkg tests for mir are all passed, does anyone know why Mir is still in wily proposed?
[14:59] <dandrader> tsdgeos, hmmm, actually qtubuntu should already be using the latest mir input api
[15:00] <alan_g> kdub: @eglInitialize do we need exactly major.minor == 1.4? Or std::tie(major, minor) >= std::tie(1, 4)?
[15:00] <kgunn> tsdgeos: yeah...so, just found out
[15:00] <kgunn> overaly doesn't have a check....
[15:01] <AlbertA> tsdgeos: yes there was a rename, the first one is the one
[15:01] <kgunn> but archive does....
[15:01] <tsdgeos> dandrader: build failed here
[15:01] <kgunn> so mir stuck
[15:01] <kgunn> tsdgeos: is this shell rotation on wily  ?
[15:01] <kgunn> (i was assuming)
[15:01] <kdub> alan_g, the first one, its somewhat of an api check
[15:01] <tedg> kgunn, But it seems the checks are passed? No?
[15:01] <tsdgeos> kgunn: yes, well it's qtubuntu on vivid too
[15:01] <tsdgeos> it just doesn't build for me
[15:01] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11372143/
[15:01] <tedg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#mir
[15:02] <dandrader> tsdgeos, you mean vivid+overlay_ppa?
[15:02] <tsdgeos> thus qtubuntu on shell rotation doesn't build either
[15:02] <kgunn> tsdgeos: i'm about to add qtubuntu to our silo 30
[15:02] <tsdgeos> dandrader: yep
[15:02] <kgunn> for wily
[15:02] <kgunn> right...so mir landed in vivid+overlay (which it sholdn't have)
[15:02] <kgunn> and i need to add qtubuntu to mir silo 30 for wily
[15:02] <kgunn> then go back and rebuild qtubuntu in overlay
[15:03] <tedg> kgunn, I don't think you can add to the silo after it is published?
[15:03] <tsdgeos> kgunn: ok
[15:03] <kgunn> tedg: don't worry...we're on it
[15:03] <tsdgeos> i'll EOD now since i did an early start this morning due to the jet lag
[15:03] <kgunn> o/
[15:04] <tedg> K, just want to be able to test my silo, which built against Mir 0.13.
[15:32] <alan_g> kdub: cleanup pushed to unity-system-compositor/spinner-rework
[15:33] <kdub> thanks, looking again
[15:35] <kdub> alan_g, lgtm
[17:35] <racarr> hmm
[17:35] <racarr> err whoops
[17:35] <racarr> Hi anyway though
[17:35] <racarr> Apparently theres a real launchpad bug being worked on :(
[18:54] <racarr> Lunch! be back in a bit...new-input-dispatcher pipeline fixed up...now doing some onomotopoeia required for platform-api changes that should have landed with 0.13 to land
[18:57] <racarr> P.S. Im still using the silo on my phone and that dash freeze hasnt shown up again
[19:54] <anpok> hm yes, gst-plugins-bad currently does not use papi, and might be better off when we have the new buffer api to do the buffer handling directly
[19:55] <anpok> there are just a fair amount of unused includes that pulled in papi in with that code that did not work with current mir
[19:56] <racarr> so I guess a fix needs to land in gst-plugins-bad to not use the include
[19:56] <anpok> it might also work by just fixing papi
[19:57] <racarr> what papi headers does it use
[19:58] <anpok> it pulls in application/ui/{window,options,display,session}.h
[20:01] <racarr> Yeah those are all dead
[20:01] <racarr> it needs to be fixed
[20:02] <racarr> papi is no longer a mir abstraction
[20:54] <racarr> ah
[20:54] <racarr> the qtubuntu changes are the respones required to duflus renames
[20:55] <racarr> I'll submit a branch after I escape emulator hell
[20:55] <racarr> if I do :p
[20:55] <kgunn> camako: do you know what day we landed mir0.13.0 in vivid+ ?
[20:56] <kgunn> camako: nvmd...i'll cross check
[21:00] <racarr> rsalveti: https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/platform-api/delete-deprecations/+merge/254170 its working now
[21:04] <rsalveti> that's a lot of removals
[21:04] <rsalveti> guess just needs ricmm's blessing
[21:06] <racarr> yeah if we get nervous we can just delete the mir implementation and keep the headers around ...e.g. slightly less delete than the initial proposal
[21:07] <racarr> but I'd be pretty happy to get rid of it...
[21:07] <racarr> so much dead code lol
[21:09] <racarr> mir_input_event_get_<NOUN> mir_keyboard_event_<NOUN>
[21:09]  * racarr rage
[21:12] <racarr> anpok: What's going on with gst-plugins-bad did you propose a fix or should I figure out how?
[21:12] <racarr> https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtubuntu/track-mir-deprecations/+merge/260214
[21:12] <racarr> here is the qtubuntu branch
[21:12] <racarr> needed
[21:16] <racarr> kgunn: What are the bug# for all this release breakage
[21:16] <racarr> fixes up for qtubuntu and platform-api...trying to digest gst-plugins-bad nmow
[21:24] <kgunn> racarr: so no bug# for qtubuntu...mir is just stuck in proposed for wily
[21:24] <kgunn> there is a bug for platform-api
[21:24] <kgunn> one sec
[21:25] <kgunn> racarr: this one
[21:25] <kgunn>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/platform-api/+bug/1458680
[21:26] <racarr> kgunn: Oh I see I already found that one this morning
[21:26] <racarr> sorry lol
[21:27] <racarr> ok I dont think anything more can be done until
[21:27] <racarr> 1. PAPI needs signoff from ricmm
[21:27] <racarr> 2. Qtubuntu update needs review
[21:27] <racarr> 3. Gst-plugins needs questions answered then port to mirclient (few hours of effort)
[21:27] <racarr> or delete
[21:28] <racarr> 4. Rerelease
[21:28] <camako> damn that's a lot
[21:28] <kgunn> yeah...whoa
[21:28] <kgunn> racarr: so this was an abi break yes ?
[21:28] <kgunn> or no....guess it was a hard api break
[21:28] <kgunn> cause papi failing
[21:29] <kgunn> how the heck did this ever land in vivid+ ?
[21:29]  * kgunn is confused
[21:29] <racarr> kgunn: As far as I understand
[21:29] <racarr> things built against an old version of Mir
[21:29] <racarr> due to some sort of issue
[21:29] <racarr> and
[21:29] <racarr> well
[21:29] <racarr> lol
[21:30] <racarr> I guess we need a revision to our instructions
[21:30] <racarr> for the lander because
[21:30] <camako> kgunn: alan_g had this to say about why things worked :
[21:30] <racarr> it would have been obvious if there was a step like uh
[21:30] <camako> "<alan_g> OK the reason we didn't see problems is that we didn't force an uninstall of libmircommon3 so things just continued working"
[21:30] <racarr> "Think if what you are landing makes sense" lol
[21:31] <racarr> because we all knew we broke API so the fact that we werent releasing
[21:31] <racarr> PAPI should have been a huge red flag
[21:31] <kgunn> right, so we had old libs present to make things happy
[21:31] <racarr> I'm not sure we how we can encode that in to the release process...
[21:31]  * kgunn actually wondered at one point why there was no papi in the silo
[21:31] <camako> we removed the server dependency
[21:31] <kgunn> just thot alan was being clever
[21:31] <racarr> :) I never looked.
[21:31] <racarr> mm
[21:31] <racarr> yeah
[21:31] <racarr> we should add a step to the doc where
[21:32] <racarr> the lander asks everyone if they think their expected branches
[21:32] <racarr> are in the silo
[21:32] <racarr> ...lol
[21:32] <racarr> more process
[21:32] <racarr> [I unno
[21:33]  * camako is still confused... PAPI doesn't depend on Mir server any more, so why should there have been a break?
[21:33] <racarr> mirclient
[21:34] <racarr> multiple mirclient API and ABI breaks
[21:34] <racarr> 1. event.h is now private
[21:34] <racarr> 2. Event 2.0 symbols got renamed
[21:34] <racarr> 3. direct access of surface buffers etc is now deprecated and you have to use
[21:34] <racarr> buffer_stream_*
[21:34] <racarr> 4.....omg I just saw it
[21:34] <racarr> oh
[21:35] <racarr> set_event_handler now
[21:35] <racarr> takes callback, context intsead of
[21:35] <racarr> MirEventDelegate
[21:35] <camako> racarr, so this wasn't correct : "Mirclient ABI unchanged at 8"
[21:37] <racarr> camako: I don't see how it could be.
[21:37] <racarr> 1 and 3 Is just an API break
[21:37] <racarr> are just an API break
[21:37] <racarr> uh
[21:37] <racarr> 2...is technically an ABI break in libmircommon right
[21:38] <racarr> because the symbosl got moved from libmirclient to libmircommon
[21:38] <racarr> it seems like
[21:38] <racarr> #4 is just a plain old ABI break though
[21:38] <racarr> unless someone has done something clever
[21:38] <racarr> undoubtedly there are numerous API breaks
[21:42] <camako> racarr, on your still-to-do list above :
[21:42] <camako> 1- which MP needs signoff from ricmm
[21:43] <racarr> camako: I sent it in an email as well
[21:43] <racarr> but https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/platform-api/delete-deprecations/+merge/254170
[21:43] <racarr> ugh
[21:43] <camako> oh ok thanks
[21:43] <racarr> omg its so big
[21:43] <camako> lol
[21:43] <racarr> Diff against target: 9656 lines (+48/-9073) 59 files modified
[21:43] <racarr> lol
[21:43] <racarr> I definitely know what all that code is *smiles and nods*
[22:36] <rsalveti> kgunn: can we work on a test, for mir, that would try doing a reverse builds for everyone in the reverse-build-dep list?
[22:36] <rsalveti> kgunn: just thinking on how we could avoid such platform-api breakage on the future
[22:36] <kgunn> rsalveti: please speak with camako
[22:37] <rsalveti> camako: ^? :-)
[22:37] <camako> rsalveti, we have abi-compliance checker to notify us of ABI breaks... I'm scratching my head how this would not have been caught by that
[22:38] <kgunn> i was just wondering the same
[22:38] <kgunn> but camako it would only tell you mir abi broke
[22:38] <kgunn> and you need to "do something"
[22:38] <kgunn> it was the "somethings"
[22:38] <rsalveti> afaik the change included removing headers and calls
[22:38] <kgunn> it wouldn't tell you
[22:39] <racarr> It was mostly API breaks anyway
[22:39] <rsalveti> right
[22:39] <racarr> we could have a "test"...but uh
[22:39] <racarr> preventing it is really easy lol
[22:39] <racarr> if Mir API breaks rebuild downstreams
[22:39] <rsalveti> my question is how could we systematically avoid that in the future
[22:39] <racarr> in the silo
[22:39] <racarr> and we failed to do that during release
[22:39] <rsalveti> right, which is why I want a check/test that would verify that automatically
[22:40] <kgunn> technically this did get caught in wily
[22:40] <rsalveti> and block the landing
[22:40] <rsalveti> did it?
[22:40] <kgunn> but didn't in our ghetto ass vivid+overlay
[22:40] <racarr> rsalveti: Yeah autopkgtests
[22:40] <racarr> catch it right
[22:40] <racarr> because they do this
[22:40] <racarr> reverse building
[22:40] <rsalveti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
[22:40] <rsalveti> mir is a valid candidate in there
[22:41] <kgunn> rsalveti: one sec
[22:41] <AlbertA> racarr: libmirclient was still ABI compatible....
[22:41] <AlbertA> but there is something yet not root caused
[22:41] <racarr> AlbertA: If nothing else the set_event_handler
[22:41] <racarr> was an ABI break right?
[22:41] <racarr> the others were just API breaks
[22:41] <racarr> afaics
[22:41] <AlbertA> racarr: there's an ABI compatible version of it though....
[22:42] <AlbertA> racarr: but of course if a downstream needs rebuilding...
[22:42] <kgunn> rsalveti: it's still stuck on this check afaik
[22:42] <kgunn> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
[22:42] <AlbertA> then yes you would hit that
[22:42] <racarr> AlbertA: Right API break downstream needs rebuilding
[22:42] <racarr> OH
[22:42] <kgunn> so it may look ok, but it's still in proposed
[22:42] <racarr> I have an idea
[22:42] <rsalveti> kgunn: but there is nothing platform-api related in there
[22:42] <racarr> we told ourselves we didn't need to rebuild in the silos because we thought it was only an API break
[22:42] <rsalveti> right, I think something else blocked it
[22:43] <racarr> but
[22:43] <racarr> because its not API compatible the
[22:43] <kgunn> rsalveti: right, qtubuntu
[22:43] <racarr> autopkg tests that uh
[22:43] <racarr> build the rdeps for the proposed promotion (this is what happens right?)
[22:43] <racarr> of course fail
[22:43] <rsalveti> right, we might need an autopkg test in platform-api that would include such rebuild
[22:43] <rsalveti> and ideally the same for every mir client we care
[22:43] <rsalveti> but, this would only work for wily
[22:43] <kgunn> rsalveti: except aren't we trying to drop that ?
[22:44] <rsalveti> not for the ghetto silo
[22:44] <racarr> oh I guess I thought we had that and thats why it was failing in proposed
[22:44] <rsalveti> kgunn: are we?
[22:44] <rsalveti> I think we're trying to drop autopilot
[22:44] <kgunn> rsalveti: sorry..."that"...i thot racarr said we should drop the dependency from papi to mir
[22:44] <kgunn> qtubuntu will still have one on libmircommon
[22:45] <racarr> mirclient*
[22:45] <kgunn> oh...and client
[22:45] <racarr> but yes when delete-deprecations we
[22:45] <racarr> can drop the dependency
[22:45] <rsalveti> right, if we remove the mir dependency entirely, then we don't need to worry with it
[22:46] <camako> we can have all the tests/checks that we want.. if thy don't get run for the ghetto, then we ain't catching anything
[22:47] <racarr> I think if we're going to continue down this line we have to focus on
[22:47] <racarr> figuring out what happened first
[22:48] <camako> yeah we need to let alan_g do his thing with the release and then put checks/tests in place
[22:48] <camako> definitely more to be discussed tomorrow
[22:48] <racarr> I think
[22:48] <racarr> our ABI checker did its job but
[22:49] <racarr> because of the
[22:49] <racarr> rebuilding at the proposed gate
[22:49] <AlbertA> racarr: camako: yeah there's some subtle ABI break with the libmircommon dep
[22:49] <racarr> if we break API
[22:49] <AlbertA> that's not entirely obvious....
[22:49] <kgunn> right, alan was saying what AlbertA just said ^
[22:49] <racarr> we can't skip updating things
[22:49] <racarr> it doesn't seem like the ABI break is the problem though because
[22:49] <racarr> the packages work when you install them
[22:50] <kgunn> racarr: i'll repost here what alan shared
[22:50] <racarr> e.g. as we did in Dallas to test the hotfixes
[22:50] <racarr> okj
[22:51] <kgunn> forgive me if this doesn't work
[22:51] <kgunn> ah crap...lemme pastebin it
[22:55] <kgunn> racarr: AlbertA.... ok
[22:55] <kgunn> https://pastebin.canonical.com/132012/
[22:56] <AlbertA> kgunn: right...
[22:56] <racarr> Yeah I guess part of the problem is we really did break ABI (though again...things seemed to work)
[22:57] <racarr> and then the other part is...we broke API and tried to avoid rebuilding downstreams
[22:57] <racarr> but we cant do this because they get rebuilt
[22:57] <racarr> in the archive
[22:57] <robert_ancell> speaking of breaking API and ABI...
[22:57] <racarr> so breaking API without breaking ABI isn't a real thing for us
[22:57] <robert_ancell> :P
[22:57] <kgunn> robert_ancell: glad to see things have progressed so far since you were playing with us :)
[22:58] <robert_ancell> kgunn, aha I was thinking everything stays the same!
[22:58] <AlbertA> racarr: right...so need to update release process
[22:58] <racarr> Yeah
[22:58] <racarr> lol its not more of the same
[22:58] <racarr> its a new situation that we've never run in to before
[22:58] <AlbertA> racarr: breaking API automatically needs rebuilt of all libmiclient rdeps
[22:58] <racarr> and we hopefully wont run in to again if we can figure out a sensible
[22:58] <racarr> process
[22:58] <kgunn> but, a result in trying to be clever
[22:58] <racarr> AlbertA: Yes. I think thats enough
[22:58] <robert_ancell> anpok, what does "TA" mean in https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/mir/buffer-stream-prototype/+merge/260094?
[22:58] <racarr> kgunn: Yeah you could spin this as a result of trying to be clever lol
[22:58] <kgunn> i always thot we should bump downstreams always
[22:59] <racarr> and or save time
[22:59] <racarr> Probably trying to save time more than being clever ;)
[22:59] <AlbertA> kgunn: well so far we have avoided breaking API in the client
[22:59] <AlbertA> until now
[22:59] <racarr> well and we've never tried to do an
[22:59] <AlbertA> precisely to avoid rebuilding all rdeps
[22:59] <kgunn> true
[22:59] <racarr> API break no ABI break
[22:59] <racarr> afaik
[22:59] <kgunn> all true
[22:59] <racarr> right because weve just
[22:59] <racarr> avoided API break since like
[22:59] <racarr> 0.6
[22:59] <racarr> lol
[23:00] <kgunn> i know....we should break it more often to get used to it :-P
[23:00] <racarr> robert_ancell: It means top approve
[23:00] <robert_ancell> racarr, aha, thanks
[23:00] <AlbertA> kgunn: well that's what ryan suggested in a way...
[23:00] <racarr> robert_ancell: :D
[23:03] <robert_ancell> racarr, kgunn, so the API/ABI break issue I have is the new input functions and XMir. We want to get the new XMir running in vivid to keep kgunn happy for phone work but also want to get it into the wily archive. I've been updating the code to work in wily but there doesn't seem to be any way of ifdefing the code to handle both.
[23:03] <robert_ancell> Also using ifdefs will be a major PITA since the changes are quite significant.
[23:04] <robert_ancell> What was you intention (if any) for handling a case like this?
[23:04] <racarr> ugh...I see
[23:04] <racarr> robert_ancell: The intention was that the new input functions were already out
[23:04] <racarr> for a release and
[23:05] <racarr> the old way was deprecated in 0.12 already so you were supposed to be able to build against 0.12 and 0.13
[23:05] <racarr> by using hte new API
[23:05] <robert_ancell> racarr, oh, should I be able to do all this in vivid currently?
[23:05] <kgunn> robert_ancell: so the deal is...we landed in vivid+overlay
[23:06] <kgunn> we're trying to sync to wily
[23:06] <racarr> robert_ancell: I think so
[23:06] <kgunn> when we discovered this little poop pile
[23:06] <robert_ancell> kgunn, yeah, so should I not be SRUing to vivid and just relying on a new Mir via an overlay?
[23:06] <racarr> lol sounds even better
[23:06] <racarr> maybe
[23:06] <kgunn> right...and as soon as we fix all this, it'll be in vivid+overlay and wily both
[23:07] <racarr> alan_g and raof have opinions on SRUing to vivid
[23:07] <racarr> that I wasnt able to understand
[23:07] <racarr> but they were discussing it :)
[23:07] <kgunn> at least mir0.13.0 (and eventually mir0.13.1)
[23:07] <robert_ancell> It's desirable to SRU to vivid to remove all traces of the old code and thus reduce the confusion from bug reports
[23:07] <kgunn> mmm
[23:08] <robert_ancell> kgunn, where is the overlay PPA?
[23:10] <kgunn> robert_ancell: do you really need it? or ...if you flash an image from a certain channel you'll get it
[23:10] <kgunn> on the device
[23:10] <robert_ancell> kgunn, I was just wondering how to get XMir into it
[23:13] <robert_ancell> With the API/ABI issues etc I'm thinking it will be best to target wily archive and overlay PPA for XMir and then look at vivid SRU as a target of opportunity.
[23:13] <kgunn> robert_ancell: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay
[23:13] <kgunn> camako: wait check this ^
[23:13] <kgunn> see the warning at the top
[23:13] <camako> ok
[23:13] <kgunn> does that mean it's truly borked
[23:14] <kgunn> 13.1 didn't go in
[23:14] <kgunn> so not borked...nvmd
[23:14] <camako> kgunn, at the top where?
[23:14] <racarr>  Mirv 0.13.1+15.04.20150520-0ubuntu1 CI Train Bot Account (2015-05-21)
[23:14] <racarr> ?
[23:14] <racarr> err
[23:14] <kgunn> camako: at the top of the web page
[23:14] <kgunn> for the overlay ppa
[23:14] <racarr> I don't get a warning
[23:14] <racarr> on that page
[23:14] <racarr> what does it say?
[23:15] <kgunn> Copying failed of mir (0.13.1+15.04.20150520-0ubuntu1)
[23:15] <camako> me neither
[23:15] <racarr> hahaha love that launchpad
[23:15] <racarr> anyway I see a Mir package in the list so *shrug*
[23:15] <camako> you mean this : https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+packages
[23:16] <racarr> Yeah I see it there
[23:16] <racarr> hmm
[23:16] <racarr> weird error
[23:17] <kgunn> racarr: camako ...yeah, maybe it's just latent...that's wrong, mir 13.1 is there it seems
[23:17] <camako> yea I see the pkg so ??
[23:17] <camako> kgunn, so it landed on v+o
[23:18] <kgunn> yeah
[23:18] <camako> but didn't sync in wily yet
[23:18] <kgunn> sorry,i just freaked cause we had so many other issues
[23:18] <camako> yeah I don't know if we should all freak
[23:20] <kgunn> racarr: i know you already sent one...but if any other news/info rises on this...can you make sure to hand off to alan in an email ?
[23:27] <racarr> kgunn: Ok np on both
[23:29] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't know if racarr has answered you, but “mir_event_ref” is what you're after.
[23:29] <robert_ancell> RAOF, why does it have a big "DO NOT USE THIS" above it?
[23:30] <racarr> hahahahahahaha
[23:30] <racarr> robert_ancell: Because it's really mir_event_copy so the performance characteristics
[23:30] <racarr> are unpredictable
[23:30] <racarr> um
[23:30] <racarr> sigh
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * _________________________
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *< Don't use mir_event_ref >
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *-------------------------
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *       \   ^__^
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *        \  (oo)\_______
[23:30] <robert_ancell> *            (__)\       )\/\
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *                ||----w |
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *                ||     ||
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * NOTICE: mir_event_ref and mir_event_unref are implemented in terms of copy until
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * such point whereas direct MirEvent access as deprecated. This means you must
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  * use the return value as your new reference
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  *
[23:30] <robert_ancell>  */
[23:31] <robert_ancell> ok
[23:31] <racarr> Its
[23:31] <racarr> perfectly safe to use imo but
[23:31] <racarr> duflu was being hyper pedantic on review imo and refused to let it through
[23:31] <racarr> so we ended up with this
[23:31] <robert_ancell> haha!
[23:31] <racarr> I hate
[23:31] <racarr> that im always blaming things
[23:31] <racarr> on other people
[23:31] <racarr> but thats what happened from my perspective
[23:31] <racarr> lala
[23:33] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I had a question regarding DRI2 and Xorg. Since we need DRI2 for XMir it's been copied across from hw/xfree86. I was looking to make it common like dri3 to avoid this but the PCI scanning code seems quite tricky to keep without copying too much of xfree86 across. Do you think it's possible to make it common?
[23:33] <robert_ancell> I'm guessing an XMir upstream proposal would get shot down for copying dri2.
[23:34] <RAOF> Hm.
[23:34] <RAOF> Yes.
[23:35] <robert_ancell> yes=it's possible or yes=it would get shot down
[23:36] <racarr> the mir_event_ref thing is an exact example of the kind of thing I was trying to outline in Dallas where we try and push for this false ideal of 100% correctness in reviews
[23:36] <racarr> leading to a bunch of noise (this comment)
[23:36] <RAOF> It's... probably? possible to make it common.
[23:36] <racarr> to prevent a situation which would never happen
[23:37] <racarr> (someone trying to use mir_event_ref in a performance critical way)
[23:40] <racarr> Then do we even reach the ideal of correctness...I can spot 4 or 5 errors in that comment alone (contraction in formal writing, failure to capitalize start of sentence, incorrect about at which point mir_event_ref and mir_event_ref will be reimplemented, use of personal pronouns)
[23:40] <racarr> lol
[23:41] <racarr> (and to be clear it's my comment...)
[23:41] <racarr> when this happens we just eventually hit a level of noise (e.g. in this case the Cow, or "StreamDepiction" in surface-buffer-access)
[23:43] <racarr> where the discussion stops making sense and the
[23:43] <robert_ancell> Also, I read the text below the cow over and over again and I'm still not 100% sure what it means.
[23:43] <racarr> revisions end, but not because of improvement but
[23:43] <racarr> just because of having sufficiently confused the reviewers
[23:43] <racarr> robert_ancell: lol...
[23:43] <racarr> robert_ancell: It means use the return value of mir_event_ref
[23:44] <AlbertA> robert_ancell: it should have read...don't use it as "ref" but as a copy....
[23:44] <racarr> As your new reference :D
[23:44] <AlbertA> i.e. don't do mir_event_ref(event)
[23:44] <robert_ancell> ok
[23:44] <AlbertA> do event = mir_event_ref(event_orig)
[23:44] <racarr> which the compiler warns you about anyway :p
[23:44] <racarr> so really just don't worry
[23:44] <racarr> and have fun with mir_event_ref
[23:46] <AlbertA> which BTW was my original contention with mir_event_ref as opposed to mir_event_copy .... :)
[23:47] <racarr> lol
[23:49] <racarr> lol im soured for reviews now....EOD I think