[11:16] <Tim> Morning!! Just making sure that I'm in the right place for 1pm GMT
[13:05] <Tim> Afternoon All
[13:08] <Tim> This is where the Ubuntu-TV meeting is supposed to be happening yes?
[17:42] <bobweaver> Hello there due to the fact that google thinks that I live in Dubai  the meeting got all wakey on time zones so if there is anyone that shows up for the Ubuntu tv meeting in this channel please just point them to #ubuntu-tv and we can talk there sorry about the misunderstanding on my end of google calender. it was the 1st time that I used it again sorry for the trouble
[17:43] <pleia2> bobweaver: pro tip: google calendar has a time zone option, iceland is UTC and doesn't get impacted by UTC so I always set meetings times to that ;)
[17:43] <pleia2> s/impacted by UTC/impacted by DST
[17:44] <bobweaver> yeah I just thought that it would know that I am in new york and not dubai not sure how it thinks that I am in dubai  again sorry about all that
[17:44] <bobweaver> but thanks for the tip pleia2  as always. live to learn they say right :)
[17:45] <pleia2> :)
[18:01] <elfy> hi NikTh - I assume you've turned up for the FC meeting
[18:01] <elfy> which is not looking good atm
[18:01] <NikTh> Hello :-)
[18:01] <NikTh> Yeap
[18:02] <Iowan> o/ (practicing)
[18:02] <elfy> hi Iowan
[18:02] <Iowan> 'lo elfy
[18:02] <Wild_Man> hi NikTh
[18:02] <NikTh> hi Wild_Man
[18:04] <NikTh> elfy,  Not looking good ?
[18:04] <elfy> not atm - we'll wait a while see if we get 2 more admins
[18:05] <elfy> sorry
[18:05] <NikTh> No Problem :-)
[18:05] <Iowan> CC already mentioned he'd be gone.
[18:05] <elfy> yea
[18:06] <elfy> s-fox said they were coming when we spoke late last night
[18:18] <elfy> #startmeeting Forum Council meeting
[18:18] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Nov 17 18:18:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:18] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:18] <Iowan> Hey - it works!
[18:19] <elfy> #topic NikTh Ubuntu membership
[18:19] <elfy> NikTh: you about still
[18:19] <NikTh> Begin ? :)
[18:20] <Iowan> begin
[18:20] <elfy> well - all we are doing is you - as we have proxy votes we can use already
[18:20] <elfy> #voters elfy Iowan
[18:20] <meetingology> Current voters: Iowan elfy
[18:20] <Iowan> any last words?
[18:21] <elfy> #vote NikTh Membership
[18:21] <meetingology> Please vote on: NikTh Membership
[18:21] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[18:21] <elfy> +1
[18:21] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[18:21] <NikTh> If you want to intro some things about my participation
[18:21] <elfy> nope - we have all that NikTh from your forum application :)
[18:21] <NikTh> Ok :-)
[18:22] <Iowan> I'll pause if you want to change my mind ;)
[18:22] <elfy> lol
[18:22] <Iowan> otherwise:
[18:22] <Iowan> +1
[18:22] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[18:22] <elfy> #endvote
[18:22] <meetingology> Voting ended on: NikTh Membership
[18:22] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[18:22] <meetingology> Motion carried
[18:23] <elfy> ok NikTh - we have 2 otther +1's from admins that we can use
[18:23] <NikTh> :) Thanks guys.. you're quick here :)
[18:23] <Iowan> Congrats NikTh
[18:23] <NikTh> Thank you :)
[18:23] <elfy> so congratulations - one of us will deal with the forum membership for you - you can check the membership page for e-mail etc :)
[18:24] <Iowan> ... and that concludes all the business we can conduct...
[18:24] <elfy> #endmeeting
[18:24] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Nov 17 18:24:06 2012 UTC.
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-17-18.18.moin.txt
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-17-18.18.html
[18:24] <elfy> indeed
[18:24] <elfy> thanks for coming along NikTh :)
[18:24] <elfy> and Iowan
[18:24] <Iowan> :)
[18:24] <NikTh> :)
[18:25] <pleia2> elfy: think you can start dropping a note to the ubuntu-news-team list about new members so we can include them in UWN? :)
[18:26] <elfy> good job the agenda was really full up
[18:26] <pleia2> would love to start highlighting mroe forums work
[18:26] <elfy> pleia2: oh - good idea - don't think we've ever done that so it would be a long list lol
[18:26] <elfy> yea - I'm all for that :)
[18:27] <pleia2> just whatever you have after each meeting, could start now if you'd like - a list of people approved at this meeting
[18:27] <pleia2> link to LP and wiki
[18:27] <elfy> ok
[18:27] <pleia2> thanks :D
[18:28] <elfy> we sometimes remember to do a monthly report as well ...
[18:28] <NikTh> Good Night from me :) Thanks again .
[18:28] <elfy> night NikTh
[18:28]  * pleia2 loves those monthly reports
[18:28] <elfy> :)
[18:28] <Iowan> sometimes we TRY to do a monthly report - dunnoo if I've succeeded yet
[18:29] <elfy> pleia2: you got a link to the news team handy - save me digging :)
[18:29] <pleia2><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:29] <elfy> thanks :)
[18:29] <pleia2> I'll let it through if it gets stuck in the queue (running out for errands now though)
[18:33] <elfy> pleia2: k - sent that - also added their forum page - if that could go in the UWN - would be even better :)
[18:34] <Iowan> elfy, thanks for chairing the meeting!
[18:34] <elfy> lol
[18:35] <Iowan> later...
[18:36] <elfy> yea - wandering off too
[18:38] <elfy> pleia2: thatnks for that idea - have a good weekend :)


[09:07] <spiekey> hi
[09:07] <spiekey> (vsftpd) how can i limit the numer ob anonymous connections to 10 and the local user connection to unlimited?
[09:08] <spiekey> there is only a max_clients option on the man page :-(
[13:06] <phaidros> how to find out which kernel scheduler is used on a running system?
[13:09] <moldy> hi
[13:10] <moldy> cups takes forever and a day to generate its ssl cert -- can i somehow access the admin pages over plain http, or speed up the cert generation?
[16:08]  * jnc growls
[16:09] <jnc> I reboot a Xen domU and the network interface increments
[16:10] <jnc> i.e. eth0 on first boot, eth1 on reboot, eth2 on reboot...
[16:10] <jnc> this is freaky
[16:13] <mralphabet> jnc: that's strange
[16:13] <jnc> a nice chap in ##xen seems to know what causes this
[16:15] <jnc> 11:12 <@FuzzyB> random mac addies and persistant udev
[16:46] <soren> jnc: Yeah, that's by design. Can't you assign static MAC's to the Xen instances?
[16:52] <jnc> soren: that's what I'm doing now that I know about it :P
[16:52] <jnc> now... postgresql doesn't start on the domU
[16:53] <soren> Because of a static mac?
[16:53] <jnc> no no, different issue I think
[16:53] <jnc> I never had postgresql working before on the domU
[16:53] <jnc> trying to get it going now
[16:53] <soren> Ah, right.
[16:53]  * soren goes to lunch
[16:53] <jnc> caio
[16:54] <jnc> err
[16:54]  * jnc consults aspell
[16:54] <jnc> ciao. I meant.
[17:47] <osmosis> are there any good configuration directives for mod_python that will allow more simultaneous connections?
[21:36] <pschulz01> Greetings.. anyone here at UDS?
[21:46] <Burgundavia> yes, but we are in a general session right now
[21:46] <Burgundavia> the wrapup
[21:46] <Burgundavia> what is your question, pschulz01
[21:47] <pschulz01> I'm looking at the gobby dos'c and was going to add some comments.
[21:47] <pschulz01> Has it been a good week?
[21:47] <pschulz01> Sound like it :-)
[21:48] <pschulz01> souns
[21:48] <pschulz01> sounds
[21:48] <Burgundavia> yes, very much so
[21:48] <Burgundavia> please add comments as needed, but make certain you interact with the spec drafter as well
[21:53] <pschulz01> Burgundavia: How do I find out who that is?
[21:58] <pschulz01> .. and are the pages titled the same as the wiki page (just checking).


[12:03] <raphink> well we can' thave all great things in one distro ;)
[12:03] <raphink> otherwise people won't be happy to upgrade
[12:03] <allee> lol
[12:03] <raphink> lol
[12:04] <allee> he he
[12:05] <allee> nite
[12:05] <raphink> night
[01:35] <raphink> toma_: are you there?
[01:51] <raphink> Sime: are you there?
[01:53] <raphink> :'(
[01:55] <OdyX> raphink: feel lonely ?
[01:55] <raphink> yes :(
[01:55] <OdyX> I think I cannot help you...
[01:56] <raphink> haha
[01:57] <OdyX> ?
[01:57] <raphink> nevermind
[01:57] <raphink> oh nice
[01:57] <OdyX> raphink: well.. nothing serious for the moment... but interesting though.
[01:58] <OdyX> raphink: I'd better work for kubuntu-fr :D
[01:58] <raphink> sure
[01:58] <OdyX> So..
[01:58] <raphink> it's been this way for the last 20 years
[01:58] <raphink> interesting but nothing serious
[01:58] <OdyX> ;-)
[01:58] <OdyX> Well...
[01:58] <OdyX> Good night boy  !
[01:58] <raphink> nite
[01:58] <OdyX> Bonne nuit!
[02:29] <raphink> anyone could tell me why http://pastebin.com/677981 fails to build ?
[02:30] <raphink> I'm a bit lost on this :(
[02:51] <didier> Why automake 1.6 isn't in the repos ? (kdevelop needs it to compile kde apps)
[02:55] <crimsun> it appears to be, why?
[03:01] <poimen> I need to configure net on dapper but I woint get the kcontrol net configuration tool to work   I use dhcp . how can I start the net manually by the shell?
[03:02] <raphink> using dhclient poimen
[03:02] <raphink> sudo dhclient
[03:02] <poimen> that is all?
[03:02] <raphink> if you need to specify the interface, e.g. eth1
[03:02] <raphink> sudo dhclient eth1
[03:02] <poimen> ok
[03:02] <raphink> but usually you don't need it
[03:02] <raphink> that will start is ONCE
[03:02] <poimen> ok
[03:02] <poimen> I junt need it once
[03:02] <raphink> if you want to set it so it uses dhcp each time
[03:03] <raphink> ok
[03:03] <raphink> :)
[03:03] <raphink> then it will do
[03:03] <poimen> I junst need it now
[03:03] <poimen> thankx
[03:03] <poimen> :D
[03:10] <raphink> top
[03:46] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:46] <Hobbsee> faster machine?
[03:46] <raphink> well it's a 2400+
[03:46] <raphink> should be fine
[03:46] <raphink> kdelibs just takes an hour to build that's it
[03:47] <Hobbsee> heh nice
[03:47] <raphink> at least I should be happy my patch made it crash 10 minutes after the beginning of the build
[03:47] <raphink> so I could fix it without waiting too long
[03:48] <raphink> and I'll blame the fact that it's 3:45 AM as an excuse for having forgotten two closing brackets in my code :(
[03:48] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:48] <raphink> :p
[03:48] <raphink> I hope it works fine in the end
[03:48] <raphink> :)
[03:48] <Hobbsee> yeah, after that long...
[03:48] <raphink> so we have a nice message in systemsettings for lisa
[03:49] <raphink> hehe
[03:49] <raphink> well you don't know how much you mean it
[03:49] <raphink> I've been trying to fix this one for several days
[03:49] <raphink> but my C++ skills are not very mature yet
[03:49] <raphink> ;)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:53] <raphink> amu said I could make a speech on kubuntu
[03:53] <raphink> this is very general ...
[05:56] <raphink> this is horrible hacks day
[06:03] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:03] <raphink> thanks
[06:03] <raphink> I'm just commiting a series of patches to "fix" the Lisa error popups in systemsettings
[06:04] <raphink> remove the popup
[06:04] <raphink> and replace the horrid error message with a "quite better" explanation on what's going on
[06:04] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:05] <raphink> and now I've spent the night on it
[06:05] <raphink> it's 6AM
[06:05] <raphink> and I should sleep a bit
[06:05] <raphink> ;)
[06:05] <Hobbsee> speakign of which, i found some odd errors in system settings yesterday...
[06:05] <raphink> ah well
[06:05] <raphink> ;)
[06:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:08] <raphink> hop
[06:09] <Hobbsee> no point going to bed now!
[10:48] <raphink> Riddell: could you test my fix for the Lisa error popup and tell me if you like it ?
[10:50] <raphink> w/ the latest dist-upgrade : systemsettings -> sharing
[02:28] <raphink> hi Lure && Hobbsee
[02:28] <Hobbsee> hi raphink
[02:28] <Hobbsee> nice sleep?
[02:28] <Lure> raphink: hi
[02:28] <raphink> && jjesse
[02:28] <raphink> Hobbsee: short sleep
[02:29] <raphink> but my patches work :)
[02:29] <Hobbsee> :(
[02:29] <Hobbsee> yay!
[02:29] <raphink> if any of you want to test and report
[02:29] <raphink> tell me how you like it
[02:29] <raphink> w/ the latest dist-upgrade : systemsettings -> sharing
[02:29] <raphink> the popups with the errors should have disappeared
[02:29] <Lure> raphink: seen some updates today, but no time to look in what have changed...
[02:29] <raphink> and there should be explanations in the Lisa et lan:/ ioslave tabs
[02:30] <raphink> instead of the simple errors
[02:30] <Lure> raphink: nice - just tried
[02:30] <raphink> unless you have the lisa package installed, that is
[02:30] <raphink> Lure: how is the message?
[02:30] <Hobbsee> ooh, upgrades :P
[02:31] <Lure> only lan looks lika Ian ;-)
[02:31] <raphink> ah :)
[02:31] <raphink> yop OdyX
[02:32] <OdyX> yop raphink
[02:33] <raphink> hehe
[02:34] <raphink> :)
[02:35] <raphink> OdyX: si tu peux m'aider  traduire packagingguide ce serait nickel
[02:35] <raphink> :)
[02:35] <OdyX> raphink: c'est une copie du maint-guide-fr de Debian ?
[02:35] <raphink> non c'est du ubuntu-made :)
[02:36] <OdyX> raphink: back to english... I'm open to everything I can make to 1. not go to school, 2. make something good for Ubuntu.
[02:36] <OdyX> raphink: URL ?
[02:36] <raphink> haha
[02:37] <Hobbsee> OdyX: haha.  you dont like school?
[02:37] <raphink> ok wait a min
[02:37] <raphink> school sux
[02:37] <OdyX> Hobbsee: not exactly... It's Polytechnical universtity... but it sucks because I have no social contacts with classmates.
[02:37] <raphink> at least most of the time
[02:38] <Hobbsee> ah ok...
[02:38] <OdyX> Hobbsee: and I'm not in my country, I'll come back in June
[02:38] <raphink> OdyX: install ubuntu-docs
[02:39] <OdyX> Processing...
[02:39] <Hobbsee> right
[02:39] <raphink> hmmm
[02:40] <OdyX> woops... It'll take a little more time... I typed:
[02:41] <OdyX>  sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-docs
[02:41] <OdyX> and well... all today's KDE updates :
[02:41] <raphink> ah not sure it's necessary
[02:41] <raphink> well I don't think you need the ubuntu-docs package actually
[02:41] <raphink>  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/packagingguide/index.html
[02:41] <raphink> you should have that already
[02:41] <raphink> then translation is on rosetta
[02:42] <raphink> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/packagingguide/fr/+translate
[02:42] <OdyX> OK.
[02:42] <raphink> hi Riddell
[02:42] <Hobbsee> hi Riddell
[02:43] <raphink> OdyX: y'a du boulot comme tu peux voir
[02:43] <OdyX> raphink: au boulot...
[02:43] <raphink> hehe
[02:43] <raphink> j'ai dj fait une bonne partie
[02:44] <raphink> me too OdyX, I got 14245 today :)
[02:44] <OdyX> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[02:44] <raphink> :)
[02:45] <raphink> yeah 0 bugs on my packages :)
[02:45] <raphink> \o/
[02:45] <raphink> Riddell: ping
[02:46] <raphink> OdyX: because it's the Hurd ...
[02:46] <Hobbsee> raphink: which packages do you do?  i'll go bug searching :P
[02:47] <raphink> what version did you try ?
[02:47] <raphink> haha
[02:47] <raphink> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/people/raphink/+packages
[02:48] <raphink> Hobbsee: of course I didn't mean there's no bug on the packages I uploaded
[02:48] <raphink> there are tons on kdebase :(
[02:50] <Hobbsee> heh true
[02:56] <Riddell> raphink: hi
[02:56] <raphink> hi Riddell
[02:57] <raphink> how are you?
[02:57] <Riddell> blurg, my e-mail/irc/everything server is broken
[02:57] <raphink> :(
[02:57] <raphink> that's bad :(
[02:58] <Riddell> on the other hand printing seems to be working in KDE and CUPS
[02:58] <raphink> good
[02:58] <raphink> I fixed the lisa message stuff
[02:58] <raphink> if you want to test and tell me how you like it
[02:59] <raphink> w/ the latest dist-upgrade : systemsettings -> sharing
[02:59] <Riddell> sure
[03:03] <OdyX> Why is "System Settings" still in english though ?
[03:03] <raphink> Riddell: how do you like the message?
[03:04] <Riddell> raphink: on today's live CD I get "module could not be found"
[03:04] <raphink> I committed this morning
[03:04] <raphink> just dist-upgrade you'll have it
[03:05] <raphink> dist-upgrade + kbuildsycoca
[03:05] <raphink> to be sure it works :)
[03:06] <raphink> Riddell: it's kdelibs -0ubuntu9 + kdebase -0ubuntu13
[03:06] <raphink> that bring this fix entirely
[03:06] <raphink> kdelibs bringing the message + a fix in the error management for the modules
[03:07] <raphink> kdebase brings the popup removal
[03:07] <freeflying> Riddell: every time I restart kdm , give message : DCOP server not run , skim can not communicate with dcop
[03:07] <raphink> btw, Riddell, one of the two patches in kdelibs (the one that fixes the error management) should be forwarded to KDE
[03:07] <raphink> since you have svn rights in KDE ;)
[03:07] <Riddell> raphink: looks good, well done
[03:08] <raphink> ty
[03:08] <Riddell> raphink: what does it fix about the error management?
[03:08] <raphink> Riddell: well the error couldn't show the module name previously nor test it
[03:09] <raphink> because as the module didn't exist, it failed to call mod.moduleName(_
[03:09] <Riddell> raphink: right, cool.  give danimo a poke when he's next in here, he's ment to be the kcontrol maintainer
[03:09] <raphink> the patch modifies the call to KCModuleInfo::KModuleInfo with Qstring + desktop so that if the module doesn't exist it creates an empty one with the QString as name
[03:09] <Riddell> freeflying: new error?  recreatable on other machines?
[03:10] <Riddell> kwwii: do you have the icon for adept?
[03:22] <freeflying> Riddell: exist recently, also found on my fresh install on ppc
[06:42] <Tonio_> hey ;)
[06:42] <jpatrick> hi
[06:44] <jjesse> afternoon :)
[06:45] <jpatrick> jjesse: looks like noone's bothered about my patch
[06:49] <Tonio_> mornfall: ping ?
[06:52] <jpatrick> Riddell: do you know of a Stefan Tarerner on IRC?
[06:54] <Riddell> jpatrick: don't think so
[06:54] <jpatrick> oh well
[06:54] <Riddell> jpatrick: which patch?
[06:54] <jpatrick> He's the KoverArtist developer
[06:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: hi ;) I was looking at the tab shortcuts, it is super easy to set in k-d-s
[06:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can do it for kopete, konqueror, konversation and konsole
[07:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: cool, they should be secondary shortcuts though so the originals are kept
[07:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: will check if that's possible
[07:06] <Riddell> kmplayer-konq-plugins now in main
[07:06] <jpatrick> woohoo
[07:07] <Riddell> no review yet for knetworkmanager or wlassistant, I knew I should have put them at the top of the list when I edited that page
[07:10] <Lure> Riddell: wlassistant was promoted - see wiki
[07:11] <Lure> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportWlassistant
[07:14] <Riddell> Lure: oh, excellent
[07:14] <Lure> also kmplayer, but not knm
[07:15] <Lure> BTW, I think that pitti forgot to update main page:
[07:15] <Lure> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[07:15] <Riddell> jjesse: did you get my note about espresso being renamed for release notes?
[07:15] <Riddell> Lure: seems so, could you check with him and update if appropriate
[07:15] <jjesse> Riddell: yes i did thanks, i'm going to update releasenotes tonight if all goes well
[07:15] <jjesse> after church softball ;)
[07:15] <Riddell> softball?
[07:15] <Riddell> is that like dodgeyball?
[07:15] <Lure> Riddell: will try...
[07:16] <jjesse> baseball but with a large ball
[07:16] <jjesse> looking it up on wikipedia :)
[07:16] <Riddell> ah, like cricket
[07:16] <jjesse> kinda
[07:17] <Riddell> or maybe like rounders
[07:17] <Lure> Riddell: see #ubuntu-devel
[07:17] <jpatrick> hey sane got in too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportSane
[07:18] <jjesse> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softball
[07:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: we've had a few reports of people complaining about system:/home, I wonder if we should put back your patch
[07:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I would suggest yes, because in any case the patch doesn't cause any issue
[07:41] <Tonio_> system:/home cannot work better than system:/home
[07:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: but don't forget that the patch causes an issue with the system component of the konqueror toolbar
[07:41] <Tonio_> so......
[07:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: do you still have a copy of it?
[07:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: damn no :)
[07:42] <Tonio_> but I can redo it
[07:43] <Lure> Tonio_: it should be in the archives, should it?
[07:43] <Tonio_> Lure: I assume yes
[07:44] <Lure> Tonio_: which package?
[07:44] <Tonio_> I am on the phone, I will be back in a few minutes
[07:44] <Tonio_> Lure: kdebase
[07:44] <kwwii> Riddell: do you know where I can find the font that the logos use?
[07:46] <Riddell> kwwii: sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
[07:46] <kwwii> Riddell: killer! thanks
[07:47] <kwwii> Riddell: are there any "sayings" that are typically used with kubuntu?
[07:52] <Riddell> kwwii: no, we don't really have a slogan
[07:52] <Riddell> all suggestions welcome
[07:52] <kwwii> Riddell: then I'll make one up :-9
[07:54] <Riddell> something that invokes thoughts of happyness, humanity and KDE would be good
[07:55] <Riddell> anyone able to test printing in dapper?
[07:55] <Lure> "kindness towards humanity" is transaltion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bemba
[07:56] <Riddell> Lure: could be a bit cheesy for an operating system :)
[07:56] <Riddell> "kubuntu: creating world peace"
[07:56] <Lure> Riddell: I can try to hook my Canon i550 (never tried it with Kubuntu - not in use much)
[07:57] <Riddell> Lure: please do
[07:57] <Riddell> Lure: make sure you have the latest kdelibs and kdebasae
[07:57] <Lure> Riddell: network printing (9100 port) works on HP LaserJet (beside dialog saying successful-ok or similar)
[07:59] <Riddell> Lure: excellent
[07:59] <Lure> Riddell: I got this "successful-ok" again on opening Printers in S.S.
[07:59] <Lure> should I submit a bug or you know about that one?
[07:59] <Riddell> Lure: could you grab a screenshot of that?
[08:01] <Lure> http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1713/kdepring9ym.png
[08:01] <Lure> same (or similar) when you print - but printing works
[08:01] <Lure> as the dialog says... ;-)
[08:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you trash the patch or did you move it to the "oldpatches" directory ?
[08:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't know if you're aware of that, but adept doesn't seem to work on a default beta installation
[08:03] <Tonio_> anyone aware of that issue ?
[08:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: I deleted it
[08:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: adept should be fixed now, my change to debtags at fault
[08:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: install debtags and let me know if that fixes it
[08:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, do you want me to redo it ?
[08:03] <Tonio_> that will crash the konqueror sidebar....
[08:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will
[08:05] <Riddell> Tonio_: I think I can get it out of launchpad
[08:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't though about it, let me check ;) you should have better to do
[08:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: but if we do that, we have to remove the installation of the system:/ component of the sidebar in the konqueror.install file in debian folder
[08:07] <Lure> Riddell: Canon i550 (USB) works (using BJC-7100 driver)
[08:08] <Lure> the error is reported before print, when print dialog (tested kontact) is filled up with printer list
[08:08] <Lure> Riddell: should I report a bug or will you fix it immediatley? ;-)))
[08:09] <Lure> Tonio_: you can get older source packages here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase
[08:10] <Lure> (I am just missing change log there for easier searching appropriate version)
[08:10] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm already on it ;)
[08:11] <Lure> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/4:3.5.2-0ubuntu5 has it still in!
[08:11] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe I was on version ubuntu5
[08:11] <Tonio_> ;)
[08:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: will send you a debdiff
[08:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: cool, mind and remove the sidebar thing as well
[08:13] <Riddell> Tonio_: url please, my e-mail is broken just now
[08:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup
[08:25] <Lure> Riddell: submitted bug 41151 - I think it is in kdeprint, as Firefox does not report error on Print dialog
[08:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41151 in kdebase kdeprint "successful-ok error reported when printer list is retrieved " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41151
[08:26] <Riddell> Lure: yes, it'll be a kdeprint issue
[08:46] <httpdss> Riddell: want more printers tested ? or was lure's test enough ?? i have an hp 970cxi and doing an apt-get dist-upgrade (slow connection though)
[08:47] <Riddell> httpdss: more testing is always good
[08:51] <httpdss> :) ok .. when the upgrade gets finished ill get printer connected
[09:08] <uniq> hum.. do I get a ubuntu.com e-mail forward automatically when registering in launchpad?..
[09:08] <jpatrick> uniq: goes to your prefered address
[09:08] <uniq> so how do i know the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[09:08] <uniq><EMAIL_ADDRESS>does not work.
[09:08] <crimsun><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:09] <uniq> hum.. ok, mine does not work then.
[09:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: testing kdebase and posting you an url for the debdiff
[09:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: interested in a bug with knetworkconf ? should be pretty easy to patch, but I am not able to do it :)
[09:18] <Tonio_> so if there is a c++ dev listening to me ;)
[09:19] <Lure> Tonio_: I might want to look into... I have seen many knetworkconf bugs that need attention
[09:20] <Lure> [21:17]  <Kamion> mdz: I'm considering a fairly quick Flight CD 7 release this week after bug 40464; any comments?
[09:20] <Tonio_> Lure: when setting wifi parameters to be used at boot time
[09:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40464 in ubiquity "espresso crashes on partitioning step in Kubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta Live CD" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40464
[09:20] <Lure> interesting...
[09:20] <Lure> Tonio_: which bug
[09:20] <Tonio_> Lure: you put your wep key, which gives on the screen : ***********
[09:21] <Tonio_> Lure: no launchpad bug at the moment
[09:21] <Tonio_> Lure: when you apply the settings, the wep key appears as ************** in /etc/network/interfaces
[09:21] <Tonio_> Lure: that cannot work, since the wepkey as to be written normally
[09:22] <Tonio_> that should be pretty easy to fix, but I can't do it myself
[09:23] <Tonio_> I will post a launchpad bug for this pb
[09:25] <Lure> Tonio_: got it reproduced... I will download source to check this
[09:26] <Tonio_> Lure: k
[09:26] <Tonio_> ;)
[09:27] <Lure> Tonio_: got disconnected by knm when I added stuff to /e/n/i ;-)
[09:31] <Tonio_> Lure: that's normal
[09:32] <Lure> Tonio_: I know - don't be suprised when you see it again... ;-)
[09:42] <Lure> Tonio_: funny - I would suppose text() method for KPasswordEdit would return actual entry and not what is displayed (what displayText() is for)
[09:42] <Lure> there is password() that could be used instead of text(), but I think this might be seen as dirty hack
[09:45] <jpatrick> Success?
[09:48] <Tonio_> I have to leave, I have water falling in my flat.............
[09:48] <Lure> Tonio_: :-(
[09:48] <Tonio_> I have to shut down all powered thiu
[09:48] <Tonio_> things...........
[09:48] <Tonio_> seya !
[09:48] <jpatrick> bye
[09:49] <httpdss> Riddell: im getting the print dialog warning that Lure got today...
[09:55] <jjesse> what controls what desktop the application launches in?  i launched adept updater and it appeard on a different desktop then the one i was currently working in
[10:59] <Lure> raphink: what is more appropriate for change log: Malone #X or Launchpad #X?
[10:59] <raphink> I use malone
[10:59] <raphink> some people use ubuntu #1 too
[10:59] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 1 in openssl "openssl: Expired certificates and recertification" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1
[10:59] <raphink> as long as it's understandable
[11:00] <raphink> hehe ;)
[11:09] <kmon> do you think a nice google soc proyect for kubuntu could be porting guidance tools to solid for kde4?
[11:09] <Sime> for SoC 2007 you mean? or 2008?
[11:10] <kmon> on dot.kde I can read there's a new tool called Kdiskmanager based on solid is being worked on...
[11:10] <kmon> so a initial port maybe...
[11:10] <kmon> dunno
[11:10] <Sime> yeah, but KDE4 isn't all that far, and PyKDE 4 doesn't exist.
[11:11] <kmon> :)
[11:11] <kmon> ok
[11:12] <Lure> raphink: I think you have fixed bug 35504 - should you close it?
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35504 in kde-systemsettings "Error loading module in KDE system settings: Sharing->Local network browsing" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35504
[11:13] <raphink> oh thanks I was searching for it yesterday and couldn't find it
[11:13] <raphink> I'll close it
[11:13] <raphink> this way my night yesterday ;)
[11:13] <raphink> s/way/was/
[11:14] <Sime> kmon: KDE4 won't be ready for Edgy. I've got plenty of time before we have to worry about Solid. :-)
[11:15] <kmon> so what plans do you have for next kubuntu release?
[11:17] <raphink> yeah! closed!
[11:17] <Lure> s/higs/hugs/ ;-)
[11:18] <raphink> hoogs
[11:20] <Sime> kmon: I honestly don't know right now. TV support for displayconfig would be nice.
[11:21] <Lure> raphink: I have a fix for bug 24516 (requested by Tonio) - can you upload?
[11:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 24516 in kdeadmin knetworkconf "Wireless Configuration Writes Bad Interfaces File" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24516
[11:21] <raphink> Lure: can you confirm https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/41184 please ?
[11:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41184 in kdebase "Cannot run as user foo using alt + F2" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:21] <raphink> Lure: sure
[11:21] <Lure> raphink: can I just send you debdiff?
[11:21] <kmon> Sime: yes
[11:21] <raphink> please do Lure
[11:22] <raphink> Lure: I won't be able to test the fix though
[11:22] <raphink> I trust you have tested it
[11:23] <kmon> desktop search would also be nice
[11:23] <raphink> Sime: did you take note of my bug with the second screen in clone mode?
[11:23] <Lure> I have tested it with WEP config (it writes config file properly now), but do now have WEP network...
[11:29] <Lure> raphink: confirmed - it works if I enter username/password of currently logged user
[11:29] <raphink> ok
[11:29] <Lure> but not if I enter another user
[11:29] <raphink> I think this bug has been around this breezy or before
[11:29] <raphink> but was not reported
[11:29] <raphink> and I consider this is an annoying one
[11:30] <raphink> since it can be useful, e.g. if foo only wants kopete without logging in his session, to justt start it in bar's session
[11:30] <Lure> true - probably it is related to sudo changes...
[11:30] <raphink> I think so
[11:31] <raphink> sudo hacks in Kubuntu change the behaviour of some authentication processes in KDE
[11:31] <raphink> so that might be it
[11:31] <raphink> would be much nicer if KDE supported sudo but heh
[11:34] <raphink> ah very light fix of yours Lure
[11:34] <Lure> exactly
[11:35] <raphink> let's test build
[11:35] <Lure> I now started to look in knetworkconf - plenty of bugs opened there...
[11:35] <raphink> hehe
[11:36] <raphink> hmm
[11:36] <raphink> if I set a prioritary niceness to a process, will its children inherit it?
[11:37] <Lure> raphink: they should
[11:37] <raphink> to make it shorter : do children of a process inherit its niceness?
[11:37] <raphink> ok
[11:37] <raphink> ah yes they do
[11:37] <raphink> :)
[11:37] <Lure> I think we should change pbuilder to have --nice option
[11:37] <raphink> I can see in top :)
[11:37] <raphink> hehe
[11:37] <raphink> on REVU we use pbuilder with nice
[11:38] <raphink> and I tend to launch it with a -20 niceness
[11:38] <raphink> especiall when building kde packages
[11:38] <raphink> like kdelibs
[11:38] <raphink> cause I hate to spend hours wathcing the comp
[11:39] <raphink> but indeed including a nice flag in pbuilder would be very nice
[11:39] <raphink> well since some people use scripts for multiple pbuilders, it can be sent to these scripts, too
[11:39] <raphink> this is much easier to hack :)
[11:44] <raphink> re OdyX
[11:44] <OdyX> re raphink
[11:45] <OdyX> raphink: No more internet here... bad modem.. what shit is that...
[11:45] <raphink> :(
[11:45] <raphink> too bad
[11:45] <OdyX> so I was tranlating Ubuntu-docs...
[11:45] <OdyX> but could not go on.
[11:45] <raphink> so you got here on foot instead?
[11:45] <raphink> ah :)
[11:46] <raphink> well you saved a few pages I hope
[11:46] <OdyX> actually... i HAD no more internet since then
[11:46] <OdyX> I saved some.
[11:46] <raphink> aaaaah ok
[11:46] <raphink> :)
[11:46] <raphink> you rock
[11:46] <OdyX> ya know... no telnet access, no physical access to modem
[11:46] <OdyX> can not do anything...
[11:46] <raphink> :(
[11:47] <OdyX> but wait for flat's owner to come and reboot the modem...
[11:58] <raphink> Lure: i'l upload
[11:58] <Lure> raphink: thanks - I have another fix, but will now group them in one patch - probably by tommorow
[11:58] <raphink> ok :)
[11:59] <raphink> feel free to mail it to me
[11:59] <Lure> raphink: good to have you in coredev (now that Riddell is not even on irc anymore ;-))
[12:00] <raphink> hehe
[12:00] <raphink> that's why I applied
[12:00] <raphink> :)
[12:00] <raphink> Accepted kdeadmin 4:3.5.2-0ubuntu4 (source)
[12:00] <Lure> Riddell is just too busy with ubiquity (which is fine as it destroyed my partition table)
[12:00] <Lure> ;-)
[12:02] <raphink> hehe
[12:02] <raphink> :)
[12:02] <OdyX> Lure: as it did to me...
[12:03] <Lure> OdyX: :-( - bad that this bug went into Beta... No I feel sorry I did not find time to test live CD install before...


[11:24] <HayashiEsme> Anyone in?
[11:24] <HayashiEsme> Out of curiosity, have there been any Ubuntu Open/Developer Weeks in recent times?
[12:10] <sladen> hello HayashiEsme
[14:31] <The_LoudSpeaker> Did anyone report a touchpad issue after recent updates on ubuntu bionic (18.04) ? Two of my friends who have ubuntu 18.04 reported touchpad not working after recent updates.
[14:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> Reported as in, told me via a message.
[15:33] <HayashiEsme> Hiya:)
[15:43] <cjwatson> JackFrost: Attachments to bugs always have exactly the same privacy settings as the bug they're attached to, so I'm not sure how private files in public bugs could have existed in the first place, unless they were in a separate bug somewhere
[15:46] <cjwatson> chiluk: Launchpad sent you a rejection message first time round because you didn't build the upload with -sa so the .orig.tar.xz was missing, but I see you seem to have figured it out
[16:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> Re: touchpad issue. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1858219 this is exactly what my friend is facing. I will ask him to create an account on launchpad and tick as affected.
[16:18] <HayashiEsme> Hey there, I'm interested in contributing to Ubuntu. I've been going through the contributing wiki, only to've realized that the docs I've been following from here seem to be somewhat outdated. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu#Contributing_to_the_Universe_Repository_.28MOTU.29) Is there a link to anything new or can someone point me into
[16:18] <HayashiEsme> the right direction? :3
[16:19] <HayashiEsme> (Also, is #ubuntu-motu a IRC channel people use much? I've said hi a few times but I've not seen any activity there)
[21:58] <JackFrost> cjwatson: It was passed to the Canonical person looking into it for triage, then on to the one that fixed the issue.


[12:06] <jbailey> Riddell: You around for a moment or two?
[12:07] <Riddell> jbailey: yes
[12:08] <jbailey> Riddell: I've discovered that a newer snapshot of arts doesn't fail.  How ugly is it if I just update it?
[12:08] <Riddell> jbailey: from svn?
[12:09] <jbailey> From ftp.kde.org, but it was in the unstable directory.  I can slowly work back and converge, or cherry pick a patch out if that's a better idea.
[12:10] <Riddell> jbailey: well it's not a problem at all, there will be a new KDE point release in a week anyway
[12:10] <\sh> 3.4.1?
[12:10] <jbailey> Riddell: This package doesn't appear to have a ChangeLog, so I don't have any hints as to how far apart they are in development.
[12:11] <Riddell> \sh: yes
[12:11] <\sh> Riddell: nice
[12:11] <Riddell> jbailey: arts isn't really maintained
[12:11] <Riddell> jbailey: from daily snapshots?  ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/snapshots
[12:13] <Riddell> jbailey: it would be better to get it from 3.4 brach if that works
[12:13] <Riddell> branch
[12:13] <jbailey> Right, that's where it was from.
[12:13] <jbailey> 'k, I'll look at that too then.
[12:17] <Riddell> jbailey: http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/arts-svn20050519.tar.bz2
[12:17] <Riddell> that's from kde 3.4 branch
[12:17] <Riddell> but if it doesn't work just use a snapshot from head
[12:20] <jbailey> Makefile.am.in?
[12:20] <jbailey> What's the right tool to generate a build env out of that?
[12:22] <\sh> Makefile.cvs?
[12:22] <\sh> or was it a script under admin/
[12:23] <jbailey> Trying makefile.cvs
[12:25] <jbailey> seems good.
[12:25] <jbailey> Thx. =)
[12:31] <jbailey> Riddell: This one works.  I'll try to see if there's something quick between the two.  I'm only worried because the failure shows up only on ppc.
[12:34] <Riddell> make -f debian/rules buildprep   (which runs make -f Makefile.cvs which runs make -f admin/Makefile.common cvs)
[01:08] <doko> back again
[01:13] <jbailey> doko: arts bug appears to be http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=19664
[01:13] <jbailey> doko: Newer snapshot has a workaround for it, but maybe consider it for out 4.0 package?
[01:13] <jbailey> s/out/our/
[01:20] <doko> doh! 54 comments, maybe we just found the regression mark asks for ..
[01:23] <doko> jbailey: maybe you could add your comments to the report?
[01:25] <jbailey> "spent 3 hours chasing why old software didn't work.  That really sucked.  Please apply."
[01:25] <jbailey> s/didn't work/didn't work on ppc only, but worked fine on ia64, i386 and amd64/
[01:26] <jbailey> I'll do a test run overnight first to make sure this patch actually fixes it. =)
[01:28] <doko> heh, yes
[01:43] <jbailey> Riddell: Erm, does that make -f admin/Makefile.common cvs overwrite acinclude.m4?
[01:46] <Riddell> jbailey: yes, it'll replace it with the one from admin/acinclude.m4
[01:48] <jbailey> Riddell: This packaging is going to drive me to drink.
[02:33] <jbailey> lamont: -xc is fine.
[02:59] <jbailey> lamont: arts uploaded, ready to watch her spin.
[05:25] <lamont> jbailey: coolness
[05:27] <infinity> doko : How goes the transition, and are there things you want help with?
[05:27] <infinity> (upload monkeying, whatever)
[05:31] <lamont> doko: what's the story with gnome-menus?
[05:32] <lamont>   libgnome-menu-dev: Depends: libgnome-menu2 (= <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1) but it is not installable
[05:40] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:40] <lamont> morning fabbione
[05:41] <fabbione> hmm coolness
[05:41] <fabbione> kicking back gcc made it compile this time
[05:41] <lamont> fabbione: when seb128 is awake again and/or doko, wanna ping them wrt gnome-menus?  (see above)
[05:42] <fabbione> sure
[05:43] <fabbione> are you already compiling C++ apps?
[05:43] <lamont> libs
[05:43] <fabbione> ok
[05:43] <lamont> eel2 et al are backed up.  could be that we need to deal with bootstrapping something, but ew.
[05:43] <fabbione> uh? crap
[05:43] <lamont> libgnome-menu0 2.10.<mumble> is current in the archive
[05:44] <lamont> gnome-menu is not listed in cxxapps.txt
[05:55] <lamont> jbailey: you probably don't want to know that arts_1.4.0-0pre1ubuntu6 is ftbfs on ppc,  do you?
[05:56] <lamont> actually, that is pretty old news
[06:13] <fabbione> night lamont
[06:13] <lamont> g'night
[06:20] <infinity> 'night lamont.
[06:32] <jbailey> lamont: ubuntu7 is the one I uploaded. =)
[06:34] <jbailey> fabbione: I did an lkh upload - Can you give back xorg?
[06:34] <fabbione> jbailey: yup! i saw that
[06:35] <\sh> hmmm
[06:35] <fabbione> i need to wait gcc-4.0 to finish
[06:35] <fabbione> \sh without all the libs, is really BAD to build apps
[06:35] <infinity> Indeed.
[06:35] <\sh> fabbione: well...i needed only arts kdelibs4c2
[06:36] <\sh> right now :) and libqt
[06:36] <\sh> and everything is there
[06:36] <\sh> with some tricks, yes;)
[06:37] <infinity> Note that the app recompiling is going to be done automagically once the libs are done.
[06:38] <\sh> infinity: problem is adjusting the build-deps and finding out bugs in the c++ code itself...and I need at least a testing env for some other things like qt bindings/kde bindings :)
[06:39] <\sh> and other question is, has anybody the resources to have a "remote access possibility" to ppc and amd64 machines to do a test breezy chroot on it?
[06:40] <infinity> Adjusting build-deps?... The -dev packages shouldn't be changing names, only the library packages..
[06:41] <\sh> infinity: as I learned yesterday, we should tighten the build-deps to the latest libs compiled with g++4
[06:42] <\sh> so it means the -dev package must be something like >= version-ubunturev
[06:43] <infinity> Interesting.  That wasn't (and still isn't) in the transition plan.  And it also means mangling every single C++ app, which was previously not going to be done.
[06:45] <\sh> so there are >1 real truth
[06:46] <jbailey> I don't know how much value there is in tagging every build-dep.  The only value is people backporting, and with a 6 month release cycle it's hard to feel any sympathy.
[06:47] <\sh> in the end, I adjusted some nice pitfalls with packages directly from debian and on cxxtransition list
[06:47] <\sh> wrong makefiles etc.
[06:49] <infinity> \sh : If those bugs are relevant to both Debian and Ubuntu, could you get them filed upstream?
[06:49] <\sh> infinity: sure
[06:49] <infinity> As for having all our build-deps diverge with Debian, that seems ludicrous, as we're suddenly carrying around a bunch more patches that prevent us from syncing easily.
[06:50] <jbailey> infinity: We have that anyway - But Debian is at least on a path to convergeance.
[06:50] <infinity> And in the Ubuntu case, it's pointless from a buildd perspective, cause we keep tight control over how each package is compiled anyway.
[06:51] <infinity> And it's not even relevant for backports, since the packge IS buildable with the old build-deps.
[06:51] <\sh> well...sometimes it's only a pitfall cause some packages are using cdbs with autotools.mk and behaving not as expected
[06:51] <infinity> If anything, updating the build-deps makes backports harder for no real reason (it doesn't help the archive's consistency)
[06:52] <\sh> is gcc/g++ 4.0.x default in debian unstable now?
[06:52] <infinity> \sh : No.  Won't be until after Sarge releases.
[06:53] <infinity> That doesn't seem relevant, though.  There's no law that states a source package has to produce specific binary dependencies outside of a specific archive/suite.
[06:53] <\sh> hmmm..after hurd release then ;)
[06:54] <infinity> (example being someone who builds a package on woody that happens to have the build-deps satisfied, and ends up with different glibc/stdc++/ncurses/whoknows deps)
[06:55] <\sh> in my point of view, if we're trying to compile apps now to test if the upstream source works to compile nicely with 4.0.x suite
[06:55] <infinity> Inverse example is all the stuff we recently synced from Debian that is uninstallable on Debian systems, because we have a newew glibc.
[06:55] <\sh> or not makes sense and fixing it
[06:56] <infinity> \sh : Oh, by all means, compile away, using new libs, I'm just arguing that tightening build-deps is broken, and isn't what build-deps are for.
[06:57] <infinity> If we seriously think that's what build-deps are for, then we need to change every package in Ubuntu to build-dep on libc6-dev >= 2.3.5
[06:57] <\sh> infinity: ok, then I can change the build-deps not to be tightend, but some packages are having g++ as build deps (tightent to 3.3 or at least 3.1)
[06:57] <infinity> Which is, obviously, retarded.
[06:57] <infinity> \sh : Any packages with g++ (unversioned) as a build-dep are wrong (it's in build-essential), but won't break.
[06:57] <infinity> \sh : Any package with a versioned g++ build-dep, find out why first. :)
[06:58] <infinity> (And, odds are, most of them are wrong too.. Except for stuff depending on qt2... Which should just go away)
[07:02] <\sh> k..lets see what to change anyways..
[07:12] <daniels> it's my mum's birthday today, and she's showed up a few hours earlier than expected, so I'm going to be AFK until very late tonight.  will be working on the weekend, though.
[07:12] <infinity> Have fun birthdaying.
[07:12] <infinity> I'm working all weekend too, to make up for moving/immigration time wasteage.
[07:18] <daniels> heh.  wot fun.
[07:28] <fabbione> daniels: did you plan to upload zorg any time soon?
[07:29] <fabbione> let say within the next 12 hours...
[07:39] <daniels> fabbione: that's the plan, I'm just fixing the last bits now
[07:40] <daniels> do you need something done, or just wondering whether or not to kick off a sparc build?
[07:41] <fabbione> daniels: well if you upload -16 soon it's ok
[07:41] <fabbione> i just don't want to kick -15 and get -16 in the queue 4 hours after :)
[07:41] <fabbione> i think the fix to l-k-h should be enough to build X
[07:41] <fabbione> but i can't test until gcc-4.0 is finished
[07:43] <daniels> cool
[07:43] <daniels> ok, bbiab
[07:44] <fabbione> ok
[11:38] <doko> hi fabbione
[12:02] <fabbione> hey doko
[12:03] <doko> how's sparc going?
[12:06] <chmj> hey doko
[12:06] <fabbione> doko: weird enough gcc-4 didn't build at the first shot
[12:06] <fabbione> it's installing right now
[12:13] <doko> hi chmj
[12:24] <doko> lamont, elmo: please requeue libsdl1.2 on powerpc, the build deps should be there now (and if that's built, xine-lib as well)
[12:28] <doko> lamont, elmo: libtunepimp on all archs
[12:29] <doko> Kamion: libxplc0.3.11-dev (universe) is a build dependency of wvstreams (main), could you update the seeds?
[12:30] <Kamion> there is no need to update the seeds for that
[12:30] <Kamion> germinate follows dependencies and build-dependencies; the *point* of seeds is not to have to list all that stuff. :)
[12:30] <doko> hmm, the buildd doesn't know about it yet
[12:30] <Kamion> yes, elmo needs to move it to main
[12:31] <Kamion> universe->main propagation is only semi-automatic
[12:33] <doko> elmo: please move xplc to main
[12:52] <elmo> is there any point in maintaining the sync blacklists still?
[12:55] <doko> elmo: which ones?
[12:55] <elmo> cxxapps and cxxlibs
[12:56] <doko> we can drop the cxxlibs for main, every library package now should have a ubuntuX upload.
[12:59] <doko> I'll start uploading -buildN packages today (C++ apps in main), then we can drop the cxxapps from main as well.
[01:00] <elmo> but, a sync would have the same affect as -buildN wouldn't it?
[01:00] <elmo> well, I suppose not for non-main, ok, blah, nm
[01:02] <fabbione>  signfile gcc-4.0_4.0.0-7ubuntu6_sparc.changes C14C0CBD
[01:02] <fabbione> yay
[01:02] <doko> elmo, yes, for main we can sync again, if all libs are built, but they are not yet. kdelibs wasn't yet uploaded.
[01:10] <\sh> doko: upload it ;)
[01:10] <\sh> doko: or do u want to wait until 3.4.1 is out?
[01:11] <doko> Riddell and amu are preparing the package ...
[01:11] <doko> they do have the needed patches
[01:15] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[01:16] <fabbione> hey jb
[01:16] <fabbione> going to kick back X in a few minutes
[01:16] <fabbione> food first :)
[01:17] <jbailey> Yeah, I need breakfast and then to do the glibc upload to fix the dependancy.
[01:17] <fabbione> can you also check that ulti-linux FTBFS on sparc?
[01:17] <fabbione> it claims an error in one include file shipped by glibc
[01:17] <jbailey> Yeah, umount2 redefinition.
[01:18] <jbailey> I just love these things that show up on one arch only. =)
[01:18] <fabbione> :)
[01:23] <jbailey> Hmm, this will be fun.
[01:23] <jbailey> I have a workshop that I'm supposed to go to this afternoon and I forgot to rent a car.
[01:23] <jbailey> May long weekend - biggest party WE of the year in this city. =(
[01:29] <doko> elmo: please move libdc1394-13-dev to main, build dependency of pwlib
[01:37] <jbailey> fabbione: Oh right, I did look at this before.  Sparc and arm specific define, stupid.
[01:39] <jbailey> I should try harder to get sysutils to where it replaces util-linux.
[01:45] <doko> elmo: could you give me a list of main cxxapps, for which newer debian versions exist?
[01:58] <jbailey> fabbione: Uploaded.
[01:58] <fabbione> eheh i see thanks
[01:59] <fabbione> so it was not glibc
[02:00] <jbailey> Nope.  #if defined (MNT_FORCE) && !defined(__sparc__) && !defined(__arm__)
[02:04] <fabbione> ok xorg kicked back
[02:04] <fabbione> elmo: thanks for ocfs2-tools NEW love :)
[02:09] <fabbione> daniels: please please please do NOT upload xorg -16 now that i started building -15
[02:12] <lamont> elmo: gconfmm2.6 UNACCEPT
[02:12] <lamont> Rejected: libgconfmm-2.6-1c2_2.10.0-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb is NEW for breezy.
[02:13] <fabbione> hey lamont
[02:22] <lamont> morning fabbione
[02:30] <jbailey> g'm lamont
[02:36] <doko> hi lamont
[02:51] <fabbione> hmm lamont
[02:51] <fabbione> perhaps you want to kick back ocfs2-tools
[02:51] <fabbione> or update the chroots
[02:51] <fabbione> E: Package debhelper has no installation candidate
[03:03] <doko> lamont: ross sbuild/powerpc still tries to install an outdated libarts-dev, when building libsdl1.2
[03:04] <doko> lamont: please build openh323
[03:05] <doko> lamont: please build libtunepimp
[03:11] <daniels> fabbione: uhm, ok
[03:11] <fabbione> daniels: you were too slow :)
[03:11] <fabbione> sorry ;)
[03:12] <fabbione> daniels: if you want to go to sleep, just stick the sources somewhere and i will upload them for you if it fails
[03:12] <fabbione> or after it completes the build and i can uplaod the bins
[03:15] <daniels> nah it's ok, I'll do it tomorrow morning
[03:15] <daniels> it's not urgent, just more modularisation and some hppa love
[03:16] <fabbione> ok
[03:16] <fabbione> so if it still doesn't build you can give sparc love too :)
[03:17] <daniels> fo'sho
[03:18] <doko> daniels: do you have a chance to investigate the libpng3 miscompilation on powerpc?
[03:26] <daniels> doko: not now I don't
[03:26] <daniels> how urgent is it?
[03:27] <daniels> i plan to spend all tomorrow (saturday) catching up on xorg stuff, which would mean that monday or tuesday would be the first chance I got to look at libpng stuff
[03:28] <doko> it's wrong code generation in our default compiler, so it's not minor, just wanting to have the testcase in the bug report, so I can investigate it on ppc without building xorg
[03:31] <daniels> the testcase should already be there
[03:31] <daniels> grab davis:~daniels/redglass/X_cursor*, and run xcursorgen X_cursor.cfg X_cursor, on powerpc with the affected libpng
[03:34] <doko> are the xcursorgen sources there as well?
[03:36] <daniels> nope
[03:36] <daniels> you can pull it out of xbase-clients tho
[03:37] <daniels> ar x xbase-clients_6.8.2-16_powerpc.deb data.tar.gz && tar zxvf data.tar.gz usr/X11R6/bin/xcursorgen, or something
[03:37] <doko> ok thanks, will look at it
[03:38] <daniels> np
[04:28] <doko> lamont: did you reschedule openh323 and libtunepimp?
[04:31] <lamont> doko: once I see what exactly "reschedule" means in buildd-ese
[04:32] <lamont> libs/openh323_1.15.3-2ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd+vernadsky [optional:out-of-date]
[04:32] <lamont>   Dependencies: libpt-dbg (>= 1.8.4-1ubuntu1)
[04:32] <doko> openh323 needed pwlib, which is built now. maybe it needs some main love from elmo?
[04:32] <lamont> so does that mean that you changed pwlib?
[04:32] <lamont> or rather, changed the dependency?
[04:32] <doko> no, lib package
[04:32] <lamont> because libpt-dbg_1.8.4-1 is current in the archive
[04:34] <doko> libpt-1.8.3c2 isn't there ...
[04:34] <lamont> is NEW?
[04:35] <lamont> libs/libtunepimp_0.3.0-2ubuntu6: Dep-Wait by buildd+vernadsky [optional:out-of-date]
[04:35] <lamont>   Dependencies: libid3tag0-dev (>= 3.8.3-4.1ubuntu1)
[04:35] <lamont> and that one's even cuter
[04:35] <lamont> libid3tag0-dev_0.15.1b-6 is the current version
[04:36] <lamont> so, no.  I haven't rescheduled them.  since it won't do a damn thing
[04:37] <doko> Accepted:
[04:37] <doko> id3lib3.8.3_3.8.3-4.1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[04:37] <doko> elmo: ^^^
[04:38] <doko> Accepted:
[04:38] <doko> pwlib_1.8.4-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[04:39] <lamont> yeah - is likely an elmo-requiring issue, if you've uploaded them, and they've been accepted, and they're not in the archive...
[04:40] <doko> oh, and same for kdelibs ...
[04:41] <lamont> libs/pwlib_1.8.4-1ubuntu1: Uploaded by buildd+rothera [optional:out-of-date]
[04:41] <lamont> but that's a patience issue, not an archive issue.
[04:41] <lamont> as for libtunepimp, it's blocked on libid3tag, not id3lib3.8.3
[04:42] <doko> archive issues are patience issues ;-)
[04:43] <daniels> fabbione: would it hurt too much if I uploaded xorg now?
[04:44] <lamont> daniels: that depends on how many more things it'll break
[04:44] <daniels> hopefully nothing, and it will unbreak some crappy scc architectures :P
[04:44] <lamont> the timing of retiring /usr/X11R6/ and the links from /usr was, um, poor.
[04:45] <daniels> but it will dep-wait on stuff in NEW
[04:45] <daniels> lamont: nothing I could do, dude
[04:45] <daniels> lamont: i was arse-deep in a new upload by the time I was told it would be nice if I could transition libGLU an hour ago
[04:45] <lamont> :-)
[04:45] <daniels> the whole three-ring circus knocked me back outside the timeline for XRoadmap
[04:45] <lamont> that transition caused some FTBFS's in a rather inopportune time.  see arts. :-(
[04:45] <doko> daniels: sorry, no, I told you the week before
[04:46] <daniels> doko: sure, that was a 'can you handle libGLU and dbus'
[04:46] <lamont> daniels: yeah.. just grumbling... don't mind me
[04:46] <daniels> speaking of dbus, need to do that still
[04:46] <doko> daniels: done it already
[04:46] <doko> just waiting for kdelibs
[04:46] <daniels> oh cool, thanks
[04:46] <daniels> libdbus-qt-1-1c2?
[04:46] <doko> yes
[04:47] <doko> hmm, I can upload it, even if it won't build
[04:48] <daniels> lamont: uhm, looking at arts, I just see C++ errors?
[04:49] <doko> daniels: the latest arts build by jbailey should be fine
[04:49] <lamont> the first one was the 'libsdl is missing the -I directive' or some such
[04:49] <lamont> after that was jbailey dealing with things
[04:50] <lamont> including kludging around the fact that libsdl was missing the -I, since libsdl1.2 was d-w arts.
[04:51] <doko> libsdl1.2 is fixed as well
[04:54] <lamont> doko: yes.  I was bitching about the past problem.
[04:54] <doko> BitchingBOF
[04:55] <daniels> i planned to do the xorg transition in larger chunks
[04:55] <daniels> which would have not as much pain
[04:55] <daniels> also while we weren't attempting to rebuild half the archive
[04:55] <lamont> (specifically, that the xorg directory transition caused a circular build-dep loop in arts/sdl, that jbailey had to kludge around as part of fixing arts CXX issues)
[04:56] <lamont> right
[04:56] <daniels> anything in X?
[04:57] <daniels> x should be pretty nicely bootstrappable these days
[04:57] <lamont> no.  all I've seen recently are in the g++ transition
[04:57] <daniels> the mots pain we're hitting right now is possible circular symlinks
[04:58] <lamont> doko: what happens when something is built with mixed (pre- and post- transition) libs?  does the link fail ( hope oh hope), or does it happen to work (that'd be ok too), or does it just successfully build something that is completely useless?
[04:59] <doko> well, hope is near, you'll detect it (hopefully) as something with a dep on libstdc++5 _and_ libstdc++6
[05:00] <doko> it may work ...
[05:02] <lamont> so scc architectures may just have a longer trip through the land of transition
[05:02] <lamont> and they could do builds/uploads to deal with that.  except that we don't like binNMU's....  hrm...
[05:11] <doko> but you can just keep the cxxapps list as no-build ... why not?
[05:17] <lamont> doko: yeah - it just means that the initial bootstrapping also gets to deal with the magical ordering of the g++-4.0 transition as well.
[05:18] <lamont> if it's really a new architecture (hppa has a hoary port, hence the pain), then it's just more ordering constraints for the bootstrap.  that's all
[05:18] <doko> lamont: yes, but that the only way we don't have to touch the cxxapp packages
[05:18] <lamont> right
[06:37] <doko> jbailey: does glibc still builds with -g1? 3.4.4 doesn't have this patch anymore, so I'll drop that one as well, and you should use -g2.
[07:17] <fabbione> daniels: x is fTBFS on sparc
[07:20] <fabbione> -mv
[07:20] <fabbione> 8
[07:20] <fabbione> humpf....
[07:20] <fabbione> daniels: i will send you a patch for that
[07:20] <fabbione> it's quite annoying
[07:30] <fabbione> daniels: in any case go ahead and upload -16
[07:31] <fabbione> we can catch on sparc with -17
[07:52] <doko> elmo, Kamion: we need some universe->main love ... kdelibs4c2
[07:53] <Kamion> ok, give me a moment while I work out what to do
[07:54] <Kamion> er, elmo already did it
[07:54] <Kamion> kdelibs4c2 | 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu6 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[07:56] <doko> oops, yes, must be within the last hour or so. sorry the noise.
[07:57] <doko> lamont: so we can rebuild dbus?
[07:58] <doko> lamont: same for openh323
[09:21] <doko> lamont: libgnomeuimm2.6 should be retried on amd64 and ia64? had bugs in dbus and openh323
[09:23] <fabbione> doko: are you already compiling apps?
[09:23] <fabbione> or still libs?
[09:25] <doko> still libs, but I we can start soon ...
[09:30] <fabbione> daniels: i have a patch to fix the first FTBFS on sparc. it's building the rest of the tree now...
[09:33] <fabbione> daniels: p.u.c/~fabbione/992_ubuntu_sparc_fix_ftbfs.diff for now
[09:40] <lamont> doko: openh323 will rebuild as soon as libpt-dbg is there
[09:41] <lamont> that's what Dep-Wait in buildLogs/Lists/* is for
[09:41] <doko> lamont: no, I had a wrong version in the build deps
[09:41] <lamont> so what you really want is for me to clear the dependency?
[09:42] <doko> ?
[09:43] <lamont> anybody working on the smpeg ftbfs, or is that fixed already
[09:43] <lamont> ?
[09:50] <doko> libgnomeuimm2.6 ?
[09:51] <doko> lamont: smpeg is fixed, that's what http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/smpeg/ is for ;-)
[09:51] <lamont> doko: heh
[09:58] <doko> jbailey: Bugzilla Bug 21657: [4.0 regression]  TLS reference miscompiled, ia64 only, so fabbione and lamont don't necessarily need to build it.
[09:58] <lamont> doko: I expect I might in my ia64 buildd hat, no?
[10:00] <doko> yes, I did mean, for the poor hppa and sparc machines
[10:00] <lamont> well, if you upload, we have to build it eventually...
[10:00] <lamont> this is gcc-4.0?
[10:00] <lamont> because the current version in the archive doesn't build on hppa...
[10:18] <doko> lamont: is there a status, which things are not up to date in main?
[10:19] <lamont> doko: in Lists/breezy.all.$ARCH, grep out-of-date | grep -v Installed
[10:47] <doko> lamont: can you blacklist the packages in cxxapps.txt on the hppa and fabbione's sparc buildd?
[10:52] <lamont> doko: already doen
[10:53] <lamont> or rather, fabbione did sparc, I did hppa
[10:53] <lamont> or did you change the list since we started this game?
[10:55] <doko> no, I think I removed dpkg from it, but didn't add anything
[10:56] <lamont> doko: fresh build of libgnomeuimm2.6 on amd64 says:    libgconfmm-2.6-dev: Depends: libgconfmm-2.6-1 (= 2.10.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:56] <lamont> mind you, it may try to build kdebase with the old kdelibs
[10:57] <doko> no, it will fail
[10:57] <doko> new qt and old kdelibs don't like each other
[10:59] <doko> lamont: libgconfmm-2.6-1c2 is in main, why isn't it installed?
[11:00] <lamont> because libgconfmm-2.6-dev Depends: libgconfmm-2.6-1
[11:01] <doko> no
[11:01] <doko> $ apt-cache show libgconfmm-2.6-dev
[11:01] <doko> Package: libgconfmm-2.6-dev
[11:01] <doko> Priority: optional
[11:01] <doko> Section: libdevel
[11:01] <doko> Installed-Size: 1048
[11:01] <doko> Maintainer: Bradley Bell<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:01] <doko> Architecture: i386
[11:01] <doko> Source: gconfmm2.6
[11:01] <doko> Version: 2.10.0-0ubuntu2
[11:01] <doko> Depends: libgconfmm-2.6-1c2 (= 2.10.0-0ubuntu2), libgconf2-dev (>> 2.6.0), libgtkmm-2.4-dev
[11:01] <lamont> i386 != amd64
[11:02] <lamont> amd64 has libgconfmm-2.6-dev_2.10.0-0ubuntu1
[11:02] <doko> but the build succeeded on amd64 ...
[11:12] <lamont> ubuntu2 only has i386/ppc in the archive, and ubuntu3 is source only
[11:13] <lamont> oh hell.  kids
[11:13] <lamont> back in a while
[11:15] <doko> lamont: come you back again today?
[11:15] <lamont> yes.  I live here.
[11:15] <lamont> :-(
[11:16] <doko> ;)
[11:16] <lamont> back in ~90 min or so
[11:16] <lamont> but poppy is alive again, that'll help
[11:16] <doko> I want to finish C++ tonight ...
[11:26] <fabbione> daniels: i confirm that the patch make X build. I am going to do the full build/install dance now
[11:26] <fabbione> and tell you tomorrow morning as soon as i wake up
[11:43] <doko> Kamion, elmo: just in case you're reading this ... last three libraries, which need promotion to main: libdbus-qt-1-1c2, libopenh323-1.15.2c2, libtunepimp2c2
[11:43] <doko> then we need a rebuild of kdebase (lamont?), and then we're done
[11:46] <doko> lamont: please remove the Dep-Wait for xerces25 and xerces26


[08:30] <hyperair> hmm, so i just managed to try ubuntu out with a displaylink monitor, and it looks like the screen doesn't refresh at all unless the cursor moves around in it
[08:30] <hyperair> then it only refreshes the square in which the cursor is in
[08:33] <hyperair> ooh setting refresh to 59.90 worked
[08:33] <hyperair> how strange
[08:35] <hyperair> hmm, 60.1 works too
[13:42] <mlankhorst> hyperair: let me guess, usb displaylink with modesetting?
[13:52] <hyperair> mlankhorst: yeah
[13:52] <mlankhorst> using which driver?
[14:23] <hyperair> mlankhorst: udlfb?
[14:28] <mlankhorst> hyperair: no i mean, are you on intel, nouveau or ati?
[14:28] <hyperair> intel
[14:34] <mlankhorst> hyperair: SNA?


[14:29] <cpaelzer> Hiho everyone
[14:29] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:29] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:29:40 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:29] <sarnold> good morning
[14:29] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:29] <cpaelzer> ping ddstreet, sarnold, didrocks, slyon, (doko) and jamespage for MIR team meeting
[14:30] <didrocks> hey
[14:30] <cpaelzer> Hello everyone o/
[14:30] <slyon> o/
[14:30] <cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
[14:31] <cpaelzer> I've seen we had a  few review upadtes but those (if needed) will come at later stages
[14:31] <cpaelzer> the only independent activty is the update to the microlib testing that I was driving
[14:31] <cpaelzer> latest state is here https://github.com/cpaelzer/ubuntu-mir/pull/1/files
[14:31] <cpaelzer> I have two acks on the PR and a "ok" on the mail
[14:31] <cpaelzer> no other feedback
[14:31] <cpaelzer> therefore I'd think I can merge this after the meeting
[14:31] <cpaelzer> please speak up if you think otherwise
[14:32] <slyon> +1
[14:32] <slyon> (for merging it)
[14:32] <sarnold> +1 (I can't recall if I replied via email or elsewhere..)
[14:32] <cpaelzer> Thanks, I'll somewhen in the next weeks then take the bigger task to unite rules and templates
[14:32] <sarnold> good luck :)
[14:32] <cpaelzer> Once I have something reviewable I'll again send a PR around to everyone
[14:33] <cpaelzer> Going on with the agenda
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:33] <sarnold> looks like nothing new
[14:33] <cpaelzer> agreed
[14:33] <cpaelzer> the latest news on fence-agents is that we have uploaded a fix to the one remaining blocker
[14:33] <cpaelzer> it is currently held in impish-unapproved
[14:34] <ddstreet> o/
[14:34] <cpaelzer> once through there I'll ping for promotion to main
[14:34] <ddstreet> hello sorry im late o/
[14:34] <cpaelzer> np ddstreet
[14:34] <cpaelzer> ok, nothing new here - going on ...
[14:34] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[14:34] <sarnold> cpaelzer: do we care about the amt_ws agent? https://github.com/ClusterLabs/fence-agents/issues/434 may or may not be important
[14:34] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:35] <cpaelzer> here we have a first of a kind in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/egl-wayland/+bug/1935082
[14:35] <cpaelzer> this refers to the recently added rules about "testing with special HW"
[14:35] <cpaelzer> I didn't want to  ake the call alone as interperting a very new rule might be interesting
[14:35] <cpaelzer> so I wanted to ask if the statement at
[14:35] <cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/egl-wayland/+bug/1935082/comments/20
[14:36] <sarnold> I wish tseliot had been more detailed in his responses.. but as a first, it's not so bad.
[14:36] <cpaelzer> Rule is
[14:36] <cpaelzer> "If no build tests nor autopkgtests are included, and/or if the package requires specific hardware to perform testing, the subscribed team must provide a written test plan in a comment to the MIR bug, and commit to running that test either at each upload of the package or at least once each release cycle. In the comment to the MIR bug, please link to the codebase of these tests (scripts or doc of manual steps) and attach a full log of these
[14:36] <cpaelzer> test runs. This is meant to assess their validity (e.g. not just superficial)"
[14:36] <didrocks> I agree this fully apply to the testing with special HW rule
[14:37] <cpaelzer> The "test plan" is a bit lighter than I'd have hoped
[14:37] <didrocks> agreed
[14:37] <sarnold> I don't know how to enable KMS, nor how to make sure it is enabled; I don't know what games would work -- what's glxgears on wayland? :) etc
[14:37] <cpaelzer> the idea when writing the rule was "if we see an example plan and test log we can be more sure it is actually done"
[14:37] <cpaelzer> but in this case not much logs exist as it is all UI
[14:38] <cpaelzer> so my question to eventually vote on - is that statement enough or do we want/need to return that for something better (making a bad first case might invite others to be sloppy where it could be better)?
[14:39] <slyon> I think we should ask for something better.
[14:39] <sarnold> mm, good point
[14:39] <slyon> Like some commands of how to check if KMS is enabled, which application to run, etc. (as sarnold suggested)
[14:40] <cpaelzer> I'm tending to request something better as well
[14:40] <cpaelzer> but I had expressed it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/egl-wayland/+bug/1935082/comments/19 and that didn't help "enough"
[14:40] <cpaelzer> would anyone volunteer to help Alberto to add something better in this bug?
[14:40] <sarnold> sure
[14:41] <cpaelzer> is that the volunteering sarnold?
[14:41] <sarnold> yup!
[14:41] <cpaelzer> thank you a lot
[14:41] <didrocks> I agree that we should have a better test case. As this is trusting the uploader that each upload is carefully tested, not wanting to write it up won’t help and make future uploads trustable IMHO
[14:41] <cpaelzer> #action sarnold to contact alberto milone to make a better "special HW test statement" on bug 1935082
[14:41] <meetingology> ACTION: sarnold to contact alberto milone to make a better "special HW test statement" on bug 1935082
[14:42] <cpaelzer> ok, going on then
[14:42] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[14:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:43] <cpaelzer> the recent bumps are fuse (Trevinho was so kind to help all upstremas by providing PRs)
[14:43] <cpaelzer> and libportal which didrocks reviewed
[14:43] <cpaelzer> nothing that needs immediate further activity AFAICS
[14:43] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:43] <cpaelzer> nothing from me
[14:43] <slyon> nothing here
[14:43] <didrocks> nothing either
[14:44] <sarnold> nothing from me
[14:44] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: I know you are busy, but do you have anything else or a comment ont he backlog?
[14:44] <cpaelzer> ok I consider this a no and he also knows where to reach us
[14:44] <cpaelzer> closing ...
[14:44] <cpaelzer> thank you all!
[14:44] <sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
[14:45] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 14:45:01 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-09-28-14.29.moin.txt
[14:45] <slyon> thank you o/
[14:45] <ddstreet> nothing from me
[14:45] <sarnold> woot
[14:46] <didrocks> thanks!
[19:00] <rbasak> o/
[19:01]  * vorlon waves
[19:03] <mdeslaur> o/
[19:05] <vorlon> #startmeeting
[19:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:05:06 UTC.  The chair is vorlon.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:05] <vorlon> #topic Apologies
[19:06] <vorlon> I haven't seen any on the mailing list, I guess sil2100 and cyphermox are just lost somewhere ;)
[19:07] <vorlon> hmm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda seems to have been mangled somewhat, please hold while I look at history
[19:07] <vorlon> #topic Action review
[19:08] <vorlon> AGREED: MATE is required to resolve the PPA situation by the J release. Otherwise, MATE will not be an official flavour in J. (rbasak, 19:11)
[19:08] <rbasak> Looks like I mistakenly copied that as an action but it wasn't an action.
[19:08] <vorlon> ok, was going to ask :)
[19:08] <vorlon> ACTION: rbasak to communicate the TB's MATE resolution to the MATE flavour leads.
[19:08] <rbasak> However, I do have an action to make sure the MATE team know about this, and I haven't done that yet :-/
[19:08] <vorlon> ack, carrying over
[19:09] <vorlon> ACTION: formal ratification of third party seeded snap security policy, depends on:
[19:09] <vorlon> ACTION: vorlon to circle around with store, snapcraft, et all, and revise the snap source revision policy to be more clear with regards to rebuildability and GPL compliance.
[19:09] <vorlon> these are carry-over for me
[19:09] <vorlon> ACTION: vorlon to reply to seeded snap upload permissions question on list
[19:09] <vorlon> also carry-over, though, I've made myself some jira cards for these now so I'm tracking better in one place
[19:09] <vorlon> ACTION: sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which xnox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step
[19:09] <vorlon> sil2100 not here, so carrying over for him
[19:09] <vorlon> ACTION: all TB members to "vote" or explain what they do not like of a proposal on https://pad.ubuntu.com/third-party-repository-requirements
[19:10] <vorlon> I've only just started on this today (sorry) - I did leave comments objecting to the very first proposed requirement though ;) would we want to discuss that here?
[19:11] <rbasak> I just added a response to your comment. Maybe we can bring that in here now?
[19:11] <vorlon> or wait until we have more comments or more TB members present at the meeting?
[19:11] <vorlon> happy to discuss now
[19:12] <rbasak> I'd like to better understand your reasoning on this point so might as well do that part now at least please
[19:13] <vorlon> so, I understand your suggestion that this be an exception only for the browsers (firefox, chromium) because for other seeded snaps, maintained by Ubuntu developers / Canonical employees, it is likely that we want these to be stably maintained
[19:13] <vorlon> however, I am not convinced that this should be expressed as a TB policy
[19:14] <vorlon> I expect the number of snaps installed by default (which I think is what we're talking about here) is going to be fairly small
[19:14] <rbasak> I think that LTSness in the "doesn't massively change" sense is important. I'm not comfortable with packages shipping in a future LTS "switching over" to snaps that don't LTS wily-nily
[19:15] <rbasak> Hence my desire for it to be a TB policy. I'm not opposed to maintaining a list of exceptions, much like the TB used to do for MREs.
[19:15] <rbasak> And I'm open to non-browser exceptions too, depending.
[19:16] <rbasak> Counter-example: recently we had https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telegram-desktop/+bug/1942699, which I advocated against for the SRU team, and that was the final team decision (an exception would require a TB approval anyway I think)
[19:16] <rbasak> Although if that were a snap, it'd be unlikely to be seeded I think
[19:17] <vorlon> I think my main concerns with putting this in a TB policy are: 1) how do we express that in a policy that's not confusing, given that the snap experience in general explicitly does not make such committments, and 2) how do we actually gate any of this (because without a gate, the policy will likely be violated sooner or later)
[19:17] <rbasak> But a flavour might
[19:17] <vorlon> (and granted, there's a lot of policies we'd apply that are specific to default seeded snaps and not part of the snap store generally)
[19:18] <rbasak> We already document the requirements for seeded snaps. Why would it be confusing to have this as a requirement?
[19:18] <vorlon> right
[19:19] <rbasak> Or are you asking how I would define "stable"?
[19:19] <vorlon> yeah, I think that's the core of it
[19:20] <rbasak> I agree any judgement here is subjective. And the tricky part is that we (the Ubuntu governance structure) won't be gating or deciding on a per-upload basis, unlike SRUs.
[19:21] <mdeslaur> I'm a bit conflicted on this one...while I do think leaf desktop applications should be allowed to be updated to new versions, I don't like the idea of something like apache becoming a snap and getting behavioural changes all the time
[19:21] <rbasak> So I think it'd have to document the gist of what we mean, trust/rely on the intentions of snap packagers, and deal with issues if they are raised with us after the fact - for example by requiring a subsequent release to drop the seed.
[19:22] <rbasak> mdeslaur: while I do think leaf desktop applications should be allowed to be updated to new versions> interesting - I think we are opposed there.
[19:23] <rbasak> Well, specifically, leaf desktop applications that are installed by default, I mean. If a user chooses to install a specific snap, then that's something different.
[19:23] <vorlon> for another not-entirely-hypothetical example: if bluez were a snap on the desktop, how would we expect a policy around stability to be applied?
[19:24] <vorlon> are we going to have a policy with carve-outs for browsers, + hardware enablement, + ...
[19:24] <rbasak> I suppose what I want is the ability for an Ubuntu LTS install to avoid changing as much as possible, so users aren't forced into "rolling" any more than they have to be, and any deviation from that is opt-in. That causes me to not want this to happen for default installed apps, since they're not really opt-in. Not possible for firefox of course.
[19:25] <rbasak> vorlon: good question. Maybe we can grant a standing exception for anything that would be acceptable under SRU policy?
[19:25] <mdeslaur> why would someone want to get a snap installed by default instead of a deb if they can't update versions?
[19:25] <vorlon> well - there are some packages explicitly called out under hwe, but I think a number of them wind up being case-by-case decisions by the SRU team; and the SRU team is not in the loop on snap updates
[19:26] <mdeslaur> I mean, that's the whole point
[19:26] <vorlon> I think both Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Server have a rather confined set of "default installed apps", by design, and that this would not change as a result of snaps
[19:27] <vorlon> flavors of course may take a different view
[19:27] <vorlon> (cough, Ubuntu Studio isos currently fail to build because the root squashfs is now too large to be a file on an iso9660 fs, cough)
[19:28] <rbasak> mdeslaur: can we distinguish users from Ubuntu developers? I think LTS users expect behaviour not to change as much as possible (with pragmatic exceptions). Developers might find it easier to just ship a snap instead of packaging a stable deb - such as in this DisplayCAL example that brought up this entire topic. I don't think a not-stable snap is appropriate in this kind of case - hence my desire
[19:28] <rbasak> to not permit it.
[19:28] <rbasak> Unless it fits under our normal HWE exception, but that requires behaviour to generally not change.
[19:29] <rbasak> Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater and allowing "anything goes".
[19:31] <vorlon> rbasak: as a path forward, could I suggest you draft some text for what you think the rule should look like, including the appropriate exceptions, and we can have a conversation about what that full rule might look like?
[19:31] <vorlon> I think my concern distills down to this being too cumbersome to express the rule accurately and therefore it's overhead that won't improve the outcomes, but I'm willing to give on this
[19:31] <rbasak> vorlon: ack
[19:32] <rbasak> We can leave the rest of this item until after you've finished reviewing it?
[19:32] <vorlon> #action rbasak to draft refined rules for the proposed "stability" requirement for third-party software repositories
[19:32] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to draft refined rules for the proposed "stability" requirement for third-party software repositories
[19:32] <vorlon> sounds good to me
[19:33] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:34] <vorlon> the next thing on TechnicalBoardAgenda is about displaycal, but I'm not sure if that's a leftover?
[19:34] <rbasak> I have a better understanding of your views now FWIW, which will be really helpful.
[19:34] <rbasak> I consider the displaycal item blocked on the previous one just discussed.
[19:35] <vorlon> ok
[19:35] <vorlon> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
[19:36] <vorlon> last mails on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/ were from August and have been addressed
[19:36] <vorlon> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[19:36] <vorlon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard zarro boogs
[19:36] <vorlon> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)
[19:36] <vorlon> looks like it should be sil2100 w/ mdeslaur as backup?
[19:37] <mdeslaur> ack
[19:37] <vorlon> #info Next meeting 2021-10-12 @ 20:00 London time; chair: sil2100, backup: mdesleaur
[19:37] <vorlon> #topic AOB
[19:37] <vorlon> anything else?
[19:37] <mdeslaur> not from me
[19:38] <rbasak> Not from me
[19:38] <vorlon> #endmeeting
[19:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:38:13 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-09-28-19.05.moin.txt
[19:38] <vorlon> mdeslaur, rbasak: thanks!
[19:38] <mdeslaur> thanks vorlon, rbasak
[19:38] <rbasak> Thank you for chairing, and for everyone's patience on the seeded snap requirements item