[00:26]  * rickspencer3 braces for $sudo apt-get dist-upgrade tonight
[00:27] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, have you not gone lucid yet?
[00:28] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, not yet
[00:28] <rickspencer3> but tonight
[00:29] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: Should be fun
[00:30] <Amaranth> I hope your computer doesn't have an accelerometer
[00:31] <Amaranth> Xorg decided my accelerometer was a joystick so when I'd bump my desk or press on the keyboard it'd cause it to move a little which would move my mouse to the center of the screen
[00:31] <Amaranth> was good times
[00:31] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:31] <rickspencer3> I will be upgrading my desktop first, so should be ok
[00:32] <Amaranth> Once I figured it out it was pretty awesome, actually
[00:32] <Amaranth> I picked my laptop up and moved it around to open a terminal and turn it off :)
[00:33] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:36] <Keybuk> Amaranth: what was the button click?
[00:36]  * Keybuk has images of Amaranth slamming his laptop onto the floor to click on things
[00:36] <Amaranth> Keybuk: Probably dropping the laptop but I just used the mouse for that :P
[00:36] <Keybuk> you know what this means?
[00:36] <Keybuk> X HAS HOT-PLUGGABLE ACCELEROMETERS!
[00:37]  * Keybuk images the possibilities
[00:37] <Keybuk> ...err...possibility
[00:37] <Keybuk> ...err...
[00:37] <Amaranth> heh
[00:41] <Keybuk> damnit
[00:41] <Keybuk> I just realised why this kernel build is taking forever
[00:41] <Keybuk> forgot to comment out the additional flavours
[00:42] <Amaranth> building 5 kernels is always fun
[00:44] <Keybuk> I had to turn my heating off :p
[00:44] <rickspencer3> Keybuk, is that kernel build going to make the desktop come up faster?
[00:44] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:44] <Keybuk> rickspencer3: it includes a patch to the i915 KMS driver
[00:44] <rickspencer3> we're down to 11.82s
[00:44] <Keybuk> rickspencer3: I saw
[00:45] <rickspencer3> chip chip chip
[00:45] <Keybuk> rickspencer3: I love the fact that a quick bug fix to the X package got it within budget
[00:45] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: based on previous experience I think my compiz packaging changes will drop that down to 11
[00:45] <Keybuk> I don't think tjaalton even realised it was a performance problem
[00:45] <Keybuk> though that being said
[00:45] <Keybuk> xkbcomp caching isn't working
[00:45] <Keybuk> so X may get even faster again
[00:45] <Amaranth> If X gets under budget we could use some of that time :)
[00:45] <rickspencer3> Amaranth, thank you :)
[00:46] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: but seb128 doesn't seem to want me to do it the way I am
[00:46] <rickspencer3> hmm
[00:46] <Amaranth> so I'll have to have ugly package names like compiz-plugins-universe
[00:47] <rickspencer3> usually turns out seb128 is right ;)
[00:47] <Amaranth> Well I want to add about 70 new binary packages (one for each plugin) instead of just splitting things into "stuff we use" and "stuff we don't use"
[00:47] <rickspencer3> hmm
[00:48] <rickspencer3> s'lot
[00:48] <asac> 70 binary packages feels bad ;)
[00:48] <asac> without knowing anything ;)
[00:48] <Amaranth> we have a lot of plugins :)
[00:48] <Amaranth> actually it'd be 54 new binary packages
[00:48] <asac> yeah. but maybe packages is not the right mechanism to split them up on a one-by-one base
[00:48] <Amaranth> since I wouldn't split the compiz-fusion-plugins-extra package
[00:48] <asac> what would we gain by such a split?
[00:49] <Amaranth> well the main goal is to not install plugins we don't use
[00:49] <asac> e.g. how does that reflect on user experience?
[00:49] <Amaranth> but I figured why I was in there I could make it possible for users to only install the plugins they actually use as well
[00:49] <asac> why not? disk usage (unlikely) startup time due to unneeded loading?
[00:49] <asac> (why not ship not used plugins)
[00:49] <rickspencer3> asac, compiz only loads the plugins in use?
[00:49] <asac> i dont know
[00:49] <asac> ;)
[00:50] <Amaranth> well not installing compiz-fusion-plugins-extra cut 0.5 seconds off login time
[00:50] <asac> i want to understand the motiviation. maybe it loads everything on startup and just disregards what is not used (this would indicate that not installing it might help in time consumptioN)
[00:50] <Keybuk> what happens if you link all the plugins into compiz itself?
[00:50] <Keybuk> so instead of loading 1,461,395 .so files
[00:50] <Amaranth> compiz stats at least the .so and the .xml file and libcompizconfig (and thus compiz via the ccp plugin) loads the information for _every_ installed plugin
[00:50] <Keybuk> it just has them all built in?
[00:50] <Amaranth> Keybuk: I was thinking about that, actually
[00:51] <Amaranth> link at least some of them directly to compiz and hack it so when it tries to load those plugins it just dlopens itself
[00:51] <Keybuk> no
[00:51] <Keybuk> no dlopen
[00:52] <Keybuk> link them directly to compiz with an array of structures
[00:52] <Amaranth> we already dlopen and I don't want to hack that much :P
[00:52] <Keybuk> which have function pointers
[00:52] <Keybuk> that's my whole point you numpty
[00:52] <Keybuk> dlopen() is slow
[00:52] <Keybuk> the relocations caused by dlopen() are slow
[00:52] <Amaranth> I was talking to get rid of the IO
[00:52] <asac> dlopen is slow for already loaded stuff even?
[00:52] <Keybuk> there is no I/O
[00:52] <Keybuk> asac: yes, because you still relocate
[00:52] <Amaranth> hrm
[00:52]  * Keybuk sees nothing but CPU
[00:52] <asac> hmm. thought some scope might just fail quick saying "already loaded"
[00:52] <Amaranth> I see a little IO on mine
[00:52] <Keybuk> and I would bet money that at least some of that is the overhead of dlopen()ing everything
[00:53] <Keybuk> rather than just having them builtin with an array of structures
[00:53] <asac> instead of doing all the actual linking etc.
[00:53] <Amaranth> oh, that reminds me, we're screwing up huge with compiz right now
[00:53] <asac> also adding so many packages kicks our already slow packaging index a bit further
[00:53] <Amaranth> the first time compiz is loaded the ccp plugin loads the XML files and writes out protobuf versions which it can then use instead
[00:53] <Amaranth> they load a lot faster
[00:54] <Amaranth> but I'm pretty sure we don't generate those for the .deb so when you guys bootchart the first boot after install...
[00:54] <asac> where does it load that to atm? user home?
[00:54] <asac> protobuf that is
[00:55] <Amaranth> asac: yeah, ~/.cache/compizconfig/
[00:56] <Amaranth> much less CPU time to parse protobuf vs XML (especially since it uses XPath)
[00:56] <asac> so can that be pregenerated in a system location?
[00:56] <asac> would that be useful? or does that need to be regenned because of user settings anyway?
[00:57] <Amaranth> although in the bootcharts by the time you see it spawn compiz-decorator all plugins and settings are initialized and most of the CPU usage is after that
[00:57] <Amaranth> asac: It only needs to change when the xml file changes
[00:57] <asac> those are system xml files?
[00:57] <Amaranth> right
[00:57] <asac> e.g. could be done by a trigger or update-compiz-stuff in postinst?
[00:57] <Amaranth> the user settings are in gconf
[00:57] <Amaranth> it could, yes
[00:58] <asac> ok. but changing those user settings would also require a full cache regen?
[00:58] <asac> in .cache... ?
[00:58] <Amaranth> but then compiz would build-dep on libcompizconfig
[00:58] <Amaranth> no, changing user settings has nothing to do with the xml or protobuf files
[00:58] <asac> ok
[00:58] <asac> how much time would you think will those protobuf files save?
[00:58] <asac> is that worth the effort?
[00:58] <Amaranth> dunno
[00:58] <asac> ;)
[00:59] <Amaranth> I'd need to do a clean install of lucid then two boots
[00:59] <asac> what state do they remember?
[00:59] <Amaranth> the protobuf files hold exactly the same information as the xml files
[00:59] <asac> so you still need to open .so's to decide whether you want that loaded or not?
[00:59] <Amaranth> so plugin dependencies, options, descriptions of the plugins and the options
[00:59] <asac> plugins
[01:00] <Amaranth> bleh, I bet that's why removing compiz-fusion-plugins-extra saved so much time
[01:01] <Amaranth> asac: no, compiz should just be loading the core.xml file and the plugins and xml files for plugins specified on the command line then ccp tells it what the active_plugins setting is and it loads those plugins and xml files
[01:02] <Amaranth> but compiz can also tell you what plugins are enabled and I'm pretty sure it checks that on startup by stat'ing everything in /usr/lib/compiz...
[01:02] <Amaranth> s/enabled/installed/
[01:03] <asac> hmm
[01:03] <asac> stating or dlopening?
[01:04] <asac> Amaranth: ?
[01:04] <Amaranth> just stat, iirc
[01:04] <asac> that should be quite quick. if its just a timestamp compare
[01:04] <asac> at least i dont have a zilions of files there ;)
[01:04] <asac> so the xml files parsing would be saved by doing the caching?
[01:06] <Amaranth> ok, it doesn't stat all the plugins unless you ask it to via dbus so that isn't a problem
[01:06] <Amaranth> so the main thing is going to be core reading the XML files (required) and not having the protobuf cache for libcompizconfig
[01:07] <asac> right. and the protobuf saves us from doing more parsing?
[01:08] <Amaranth> but at least on my latest bootchart almost all the CPU usage is _after_ compiz-decorator is started which means at that point compiz has initialized all the plugins and loaded all of their settings from gconf
[01:08] <Amaranth> so the only way to know if there is any win at all is to try it
[01:08] <asac> yeah. probably
[01:08] <Amaranth> so I need a clean lucid install and bootcharts for the first boot and the second boot
[01:09] <Amaranth> I have no idea how people are producing bootcharts for their mini 10v systems though
[01:09] <Amaranth> If the first boot already has bootchart and that is being used this could be a win
[01:09] <Amaranth> if not, we've already got the protobuf files
[01:10] <Amaranth> but that does seem to prove dlopen isn't hurting at all unlike what Keybuk was saying
[01:11] <Keybuk> I produce lots of bootcharts for mini10vs
[01:11] <Keybuk> what charts would you like?
[01:11] <Amaranth> Keybuk: When you do the daily bootcharts is that automated?
[01:11] <Keybuk> yes
[01:11] <Amaranth> If so, is that the very first boot into the installed system?
[01:12] <Keybuk> second boot
[01:12] <Amaranth> Ok, so now I'm lost
[01:12] <Keybuk> what would you like to know?
[01:12] <Amaranth> What the heck compiz is doing using so much CPU _after_ it has loaded all of the plugins and their configuration :)
[01:13] <Keybuk> I suspect printf() will be your friend
[01:13] <Amaranth> If you look on your bootchart all the compiz CPU usage is after compiz-decorator starts but that doesn't start until compiz is "finished" loading
[01:14] <Keybuk> some deferred work in the main loop perhaps?
[01:14] <Keybuk> an idle timer function?
[01:14] <Amaranth> I don't think we even have those
[01:14] <Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/tmp/max-lucid-20091209-1.png
[01:14] <Amaranth> wow that's a very long chart
[01:14] <Keybuk> that's a "first boot" chart of alpha 1
[01:14] <Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/tmp/max-lucid-20091209-2.png
[01:14] <Keybuk> that's the "second boot" chart
[01:15] <Keybuk> (the second boot charts are the ones that get published on daily-bootcharts)
[01:15] <Keybuk> Amaranth: mine are longer than most people's ... I don't like to brag
[01:15] <Amaranth> heh, what is up with udevd there?
[01:15] <Keybuk> nothing
[01:16] <Keybuk> bootchart normally condenses things a bit
[01:16] <Amaranth> ok on your charts compiz is showing a lot of CPU usage before compiz-decorator loads too
[01:16] <Keybuk> hides a lot of the detail
[01:16] <Amaranth> but most of it is still after
[01:16] <Keybuk> when I generate them myself, I tell it not to do that, so I get all of the processes and detail
[01:16] <Keybuk> they're less easy to read, but have more information
[01:17] <Keybuk> Amaranth: so what I'd do is start sticking printfs throughout compiz
[01:17] <Amaranth> this is going to suck :P
[01:17] <Keybuk> grab the kernel uptime clock and put that at the front
[01:17] <Keybuk> (or just write to the kmsg device)
[01:17] <Keybuk> then you'll have numbers that tell you how far into the boot it was doing what
[01:19] <Amaranth> oh, it looks like robert-ancell already did all of this
[01:19] <Amaranth> there is a nice 090_profiling patch in compiz that just needs a build flag to enable
[01:20] <Amaranth> a nice patch which I broke with my changes, whee
[01:30] <Keybuk> don't you just hate that
[01:30] <Keybuk> gcc has stuff to add profiling hooks to functions too
[01:30] <Keybuk> that's quite handy
[01:30] <Keybuk> you build your source with extra flags
[01:30] <Keybuk> and LD_PRELOAD in a hook library when you run it
[01:31] <Keybuk> your hook gets called for every function call
[01:31] <Keybuk> so you can instrument it
[01:32] <Amaranth> neat
[01:33] <Amaranth> if I'm reading this correctly even with a warm cache and already logged in compiz takes 2.14 seconds to load :/
[01:34] <Amaranth> takes 0.01 seconds to load and parse the core.xml file, not as bad as I thought
[01:35] <Amaranth> 0.06 seconds to load our "required" plugins (ccp, move, resize, decoration, place)
[01:35] <Amaranth> oh, and crap
[01:36] <Amaranth> it loads the settings for each plugin as it loads the plugin (duh) so we've only loaded those 5 plugins when compiz-decorator starts
[01:37] <Amaranth> I'll have to check this on boot but it looks like loading most of the plugins is "free"
[01:37] <Amaranth> except of course for the ones we absolutely want to have (wall, animation, commands, etc)
[01:37] <Amaranth> brb, rebooting
[01:44] <Amaranth> hmm, according to this compiz starts in about 0.6 seconds on boot
[01:45] <Amaranth> but 0.77 the second boot (with ureadahead that time)
[01:45] <Amaranth> hrm
[01:45] <Keybuk> on your bootchart?
[01:46] <Amaranth> no, with this profiling patch
[01:46] <Keybuk> I think you're getting too preoccupied with when compiz hits the main loop
[01:46] <Amaranth> it goes from startup to the first time eventLoop is idle
[01:46] <Keybuk> if it hits the main loop quickly, that's nice
[01:46] <Keybuk> it's still churning away
[01:46] <Keybuk> so whatever is eating all the CPU must be happening afterwards
[01:46] <Amaranth> and apparently compiz does have idle timers because all plugin loading happens in the eventLoop
[01:47] <Amaranth> so the first time it is idle that should mean it is done loading
[01:47] <Amaranth> it hits the first idle after it has loaded all of the plugins and their settings, anyway
[01:48] <Amaranth> so any further processing is within the plugins and the (most likely) unavoidable overhead of using compiz
[01:51] <Amaranth> at this point I'm thinking using metacity by default in lucid is going to be far less painful then trying to optimize the animation plugin
[01:54] <Keybuk> why is there any animation?
[01:54] <Keybuk> nothing is happening on screen
[01:54] <Keybuk> just a big window in front of everything with a bit of a throbber
[01:54] <Amaranth> Keybuk: the animation plugin does something with basically every X event
[01:55] <Keybuk> can we turn that plugin off until we're ready? :p
[01:55] <Amaranth> compiz sort of "flashes" when you enable/disable a plugin
[01:55] <Keybuk> so make the plugin start "off"
[01:55] <Keybuk> and don't hook into X until it's turned "on"
[01:55] <Amaranth> hmm, actually it doesn't seem to flash anymore
[01:56] <Amaranth> heck we could delay enabling every plugin except ccp, move, resize, place, and decoration if you want to go down that route
[01:56] <Amaranth> oh, and session
[01:56] <Keybuk> why do we even need those?
[01:57] <Keybuk> we have no windows to move, resize, place or decorate
[01:57] <Keybuk> just one big plymouth/xsplash window which was already in the right place anyway
[01:57] <Amaranth> well we need ccp, session, and decoration so we can put everything back where it was before (if you saved a session)
[01:57] <Amaranth> the others are just the ones we force you to have enabled and the way we do that prevents us from doing any tricks with delayed loading
[01:57] <Keybuk> it doesn't need to get put back until after everything else is loaded surely?
[01:58] <Amaranth> Do you want xsplash to go away _then_ have all of your windows gain a decoration and jump to the proper position?
[01:59] <Keybuk> no
[01:59] <Keybuk> just do it last
[01:59] <Keybuk> in one step
[01:59] <Amaranth> otherwise for the rest I guess I just need compiz to hook into the same thing xsplash does to know when to go away
[02:00] <Amaranth> of course now we're cheating and dumping all the CPU load right at the time the user is going to start trying to use the system...
[02:01] <Keybuk> no, just before
[02:01] <Amaranth> but I guess we do that with other things too
[02:01] <Keybuk> basically
[02:01] <Amaranth> right, it'll start happening while xsplash is doing the fade
[02:01] <Keybuk> if you're saying that CPU load is all compiz responding to things that are happening that the user can't see anyway
[02:01] <Keybuk> why not disable all that
[02:02] <Keybuk> and then, just before xsplash goes away, do it all in one great big lump
[02:02] <Keybuk> then take xsplash away
[02:02] <Keybuk> no
[02:02] <Keybuk> do it before xsplash fades
[02:02] <Amaranth> uh, how?
[02:02] <Keybuk> co-operate between the two
[02:02] <Amaranth> I'd like to point out compiz doesn't do dbus
[02:02] <Keybuk> xsplash tells compiz it's going to fade, and waits for compiz to say "I'm done"
[02:02] <Keybuk> that kind of thing
[02:02] <Keybuk> really?
[02:02]  * Keybuk spies a compiz dbus plugin
[02:02] <Amaranth> well, we have a dbus plugin but then we'd have to load a plugin :P
[02:02] <Amaranth> Yeah, I sort of wrote that plugin :P
[02:03] <Keybuk> you said loading plugins was free :p
[02:03] <Keybuk> and were blaming what the plugins did when nobody could see <g>
[02:03] <Keybuk> all I'm pointing out is that there's a solution for any problem :D
[02:03] <Amaranth> well looking at the profiling the delta between loading that plugin and loading the next is 0.01 or so
[02:03] <Amaranth> sure but a solution that requires 10 hours of work is going to take a month for me to finish
[02:04] <Keybuk> that's cool
[02:04] <Keybuk> we have more than four
[02:04] <Keybuk> for now, adding sleep (10) into compiz startup would be a good way to find out if that was the problem? :p
[02:04] <Keybuk> if we make compiz start, init, then just sleep
[02:05] <Keybuk> see what happens
[02:05] <Amaranth> yeah, I could put that right before eventLoop, would be a great way of seeing if all of this is happening in the eventLoop anyway
[02:06] <Keybuk> if you throw me a deb (PPA is good) then I'll happily test it out on the mini
[02:06] <Amaranth> hrm, I really need another computer to run this stuff on
[02:06] <Amaranth> having to keep rebooting the one I'm on IRC with is lame
[02:08]  * Amaranth debates wiping out the computer people play games on
[02:14] <Amaranth> Keybuk: btw, that idea of linking plugins directly to compiz is starting to sound better and better
[02:15] <Amaranth> I've thought up a way to do it without getting too crazy and would still allow loading plugins the normal way
[02:15] <Keybuk> oh? :)
[02:16] <Keybuk> usual way is that each plugin has some kind of struct-o-function-pointers
[02:16] <Keybuk> which is what you find with dlopen() anyway
[02:16] <Amaranth> And we do, right
[02:16] <Keybuk> to build them in, you just have a script make a C file that turns those into an array
[02:16] <Keybuk> then for (plugin **p = builtin_plugins; p && *p; p++)
[02:16] <Keybuk>   *p->init()
[02:16] <Keybuk> type thing
[02:17] <Amaranth> yep, will look at that this weekend
[02:17] <Keybuk> this is
[02:17] <Keybuk> exactly
[02:17] <Keybuk> how the kernel works ;)
[02:17] <Keybuk> if you =y, you get the same code (mostly)
[02:18] <Keybuk> then an auto-generated C file that has pointers to them all
[02:18] <Amaranth> of course if I also want to make compiz stop loading the XML for the plugins this could get somewhat more complicated
[02:18] <Amaranth> but XPath is apparently not as slow as I thought
[02:18] <Amaranth> Either way compiz in lucid is going to look nothing like upstream though :/
[02:19] <Amaranth> but they do want to be able to compile plugins into core upstream as well so I suppose I could just port the stuff to the C++ code and submit it there once I'm done
[05:21] <Omen_20> hi. can u use the same image ud install from a cd, on a usb pendrive?
[05:23] <robert_ancell> Omen_20, yes, use System>Administration>Startup Disk Creator
[05:23] <jmarsden> See also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[05:24] <Omen_20> oh ok. so this makes an iso image usable from a pendrive?
[05:24] <robert_ancell> yes
[05:25] <Omen_20> sweet. thanks! I hoped there was an easy way. CDs were starting to feel wasteful and now that im on break and have a TB drive I want to try out tons of stuff.
[05:25] <robert_ancell> Omen_20, np, have fun!
[05:26] <Omen_20> :D
[06:49] <pitti> Good morning
[06:53] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[06:53] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:29] <glatzor> morning pitti
[07:32] <pitti> hey glatzor
[07:49] <glatzor> hello bryce, do you know how I could access the icon of a window from gtk?
[07:49] <glatzor> bryce, the WM_ICON_NAME property doesn't seem to be handled very well by metacity
[07:49] <glatzor> it is just the same as WM_NAME
[07:54] <tjaalton> Keybuk: what was a performance problem?
[07:54] <baptistemm> heya
[08:36] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:39] <seb128> hello desktopers
[08:41] <chrisccoulson> hello seb128
[08:41] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[08:41] <seb128> did you manage to sleep at all? ;-)
[08:42] <seb128> you seem to always be there :-p
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i slept for 3 hours :)
[08:42] <seb128> urg
[08:43] <seb128> you must be glad that tomorrow is saturday ;-)
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> i shall be brewing my coffee extra strong this morning
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm glad that tomorrow is saturday ;)
[08:43] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:43] <didrocks> morning chrisccoulson
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[08:43] <seb128> hum, coffee, looks like a good idea indeed
[08:44] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:48] <pitti> bonjour seb128, hey chrisccoulson
[08:48]  * pitti back from pm-utils debugging
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> good morning pitti
[08:49] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:49] <seb128> how are you?
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, btw not sure if you read log from night in the morning or not
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, the work item count for lucid is somewhat wrong
[08:53] <pitti> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html ?
[08:53] <pitti> seems fine to me
[08:53] <pitti> (no, I didn't see that bit)
[08:54] <seb128> pitti, somewhat around 1am hour time
[08:54] <seb128> if you have log
[08:54] <pitti> I do
[08:54] <seb128> basically some specs have alpha3 or beta1 wis
[08:54] <seb128> and those are on no count
[08:54] <pitti> right
[08:55] <pitti> that's a current limitation in the parser
[08:58] <seb128> hum, it should perhaps list anything in the "work item.*:" format as for lucid now?
[08:58] <seb128> right now we have tens of items not on the charts
[08:59] <seb128> so the trend and counts are somewhat biased
[08:59] <pitti> right
[09:01] <pitti> ok, let me look into that
[09:02] <seb128> thanks
[09:06] <seb128> pitti, btw while I'm a it review from the indicator package in new is welcome
[09:06] <seb128> I sponsored it for kenvandine yesterday
[09:06] <seb128> but I didn't want to source NEW since I uploaded
[09:06] <pitti> ok
[09:07] <seb128> thanks
[09:08]  * seb128 stops bothering pitti now
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> ah
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> it seems my phone was playing up when i went away for breakfast
[09:25] <seb128> hehe
[09:25]  * seb128 start looking at strace and http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/nautilus again now
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> excellent, that will probably keep you occupied for some time ;)
[09:26] <seb128> I wonder if we could reduce the number of stats on alternative paths
[09:26] <seb128> like /usr/local/...
[09:26] <seb128> and if that would make a difference
[09:26] <seb128> I guess stat calls are cheap usually
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too sure
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> how come it needs to stat() user folders such as downloads and public when it starts?
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> if it's not displaying a window
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> anyway, time for me to grab another coffee:)
[09:29] <seb128> could comment
[09:29] <seb128> ups, "good comment"
[09:33] <seb128> grep stat nautilus.strace | grep ENO | wc -l -> 707
[09:33] <seb128> 652 of those being for icons
[09:34] <seb128> I'm wondering if we could check for /usr/local/icons earlier and avoid stating each subdir
[09:34] <seb128> or /usr/local/share/icons rather
[09:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - so, it checks for subdirectories of /usr/local/share/icons before making sure that the parent directory exists?
[09:38] <seb128> 1420  14:24:08.630795 stat64("/usr/local/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps", 0xbfb17340) = -1 ENOENT (No such
[09:38] <seb128> file or directory)
[09:38] <seb128> 1420  14:24:08.631034 stat64("/usr/share/nautilus/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps", 0xbfb17340) = -1 ENOENT (No su
[09:38] <seb128> ch file or directory)
[09:38] <seb128> 1420  14:24:08.631357 stat64("/usr/local/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/categories", 0xbfb17340) = -1 ENOENT (No
[09:38] <seb128>  such file or directory)
[09:38] <seb128> etc
[09:38] <seb128> etc
[09:38] <seb128> it does that for each dir from the index
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> vuntz - do you know what is happening about implementing a new shutdown API in consolekit, to unbreak the current situation in gnome-session with policykit-1? (i think i've asked you about this before). Do you know if anyone has offered to do the work in either consolekit or gnome-session yet?
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - there seems like an opportunity for some optimisations there :)
[09:41] <seb128> yes
[09:41] <seb128> those stats are cheap though
[09:41] <seb128> like 1ms or less
[09:41] <seb128> but if we could spare some hundred calls...
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> 1ms each, or for all of them?
[09:42] <seb128> look at the lines I copied
[09:42] <seb128> it's like 0.3ms each
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> ah yes
[09:43] <seb128> I will start by looking at backgrounds and what you pointed about standard dirs
[09:56] <vuntz> chrisccoulson: mccann is supposed to do the work in consolekit, and I'm supposed to do the work in gnome-session
[09:56] <vuntz> chrisccoulson: but if you want to help, that would certainly be welcome!
[09:57] <vuntz> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24493
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> vuntz - yeah, i was thinking of helping:)
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html
[10:00] <pitti> seems more realistic now
[10:00]  * pitti fixes the y steps
[10:00] <seb128> pitti, you rock
[10:01] <pitti> I updpated the howto, I'll mail an announcement
[10:01] <pitti> since the semantics now slightly changed
[10:01] <pitti> asac: ^ this should address your concern from a week ago, too
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[10:32] <baptistemm> seb128, for system call performance you might be interested by systemtap
[10:32] <baptistemm> ie benching open, read, ...
[10:33] <seb128> baptistemm, did you ever use it?
[10:34] <baptistemm> just a little bit, it requires to have debuild package for kernel, it might difficult a first sight but it is rather powerful
[10:34] <baptistemm> this is d-trace for linux
[10:40] <seb128> ok
[10:41] <seb128> waouh, alex rocks as usual ;-)
[10:41] <seb128> http://git.gnome.org/cgit/nautilus/commit/?id=55f1438bf898c819504dae540a7540ec30508f1e
[10:41] <seb128> that fixes the .gtk-bookmarks being opened and rewrite 5 times on start
[10:41] <seb128> it's read only once now
[10:49] <MacSlow> How can I avoid being asked for my password everytime I push or pull something to lp?
[10:50] <seb128> use a ssh agent, gnome-keyring for example?
[11:02] <MacSlow> seb128, reading up on http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring makes me not want to touch this at all atm
[11:04] <seb128> MacSlow, why not?
[11:05] <MacSlow> seb128, uncharted lands... for me at least and I don't want to mess up and lock myself out
[11:05] <seb128> ?
[11:05] <seb128> gnome-keyring is running on your box in any case
[11:05] <MacSlow> seb128, besides... I would really like to know when (what) I did to have this in place
[11:05] <seb128> I'm surprised the agent doesn't kick in when you use ssh, it should
[11:06] <seb128> it works out of the box usually
[11:06] <MacSlow> seb128, on my laptop I don't ahve those issues
[11:06] <seb128> env | grep SSH?
[11:06] <Keybuk> seb128: just so you know, there may still be a "gdm doesn't start" bug
[11:06] <Keybuk> I'll fix that today if there is :p
[11:06] <MacSlow> SSH_AGENT_PID=3800
[11:06] <MacSlow> SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-nQMTFj3753/agent.3753
[11:06] <seb128> Keybuk, ok
[11:07] <seb128> Keybuk, good to see that today's upgrade bring some speedup to boot ;-)
[11:07] <Keybuk> does it? :p
[11:07] <Keybuk> I would have thought it'd be slightly slower
[11:08] <seb128> today's upgrade reduced boot from about 1 second apparently
[11:08] <Keybuk> oh right
[11:08] <Keybuk> maybe all that mucking around with gdm and plymouth did actually work out
[11:08] <seb128> well guess-time seems to think the linux time went down 2 seconds
[11:10]  * Keybuk was mucking around with kernels as well
[11:10] <Keybuk> certainly one apw uploads the next kernel, it'll go down a second or so <g>
[11:10] <seb128> xorg time when 0.5 seconds down too
[11:10] <Keybuk> ah that's good to know
[11:10] <seb128> when -> went
[11:10] <Keybuk> I thought xorg might get faster
[11:10] <Keybuk> (no vt mucking around now)
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: did that already include dropping of usplash?
[11:10] <Keybuk> there's actually a bug in the xorg packages
[11:10] <Keybuk> tjaalton: you might want to look into it
[11:11] <Keybuk> the xkbcomp caching patches aren't working
[11:11] <seb128> pitti, could be, let me look
[11:11] <Keybuk> (nothing ends up in /var/lib/xkb :p)
[11:11] <seb128> Keybuk, and after 1 day of looking at nautilus I managed to get one improvement :-p
[11:11] <pitti> seb128: ooh?
[11:12] <seb128> it opens .gtk-bookmark 1 time now
[11:12] <seb128> before it was opening it 11 times
[11:12] <seb128> and renaming it 5 times
[11:12] <tjaalton> Keybuk: yes, I knew it's disabled. bryce fixed the pacth to apply, but it still doesn't build
[11:12] <seb128> thanks to alex for the actual fix in git, I've just been spotting the issue
[11:13] <Keybuk> tjaalton: oh, right, would be nice to get that working ;)
[11:13] <Keybuk> that's another .25-.5s :)
[11:15] <seb128> pitti, right, no usplash
[11:15] <seb128> no plymonth either apparently
[11:16] <pitti> plymouth> no MIR yet, still in universe
[11:21] <Keybuk> pitti: there so is an MIR
[11:21] <Keybuk> bug #495184
[11:22] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, wasn't there yet on my review yesterday
[11:22] <Keybuk> pfft. *yesterday* :p
[11:27] <seb128> MacSlow, it seems that you have an another agent than gnome-keyring
[11:28] <mac_v> pitti: hi... i found this in the sudo changelog... "Rename pwstars to pwfeedback"  , is that for the helper too?
[11:28] <seb128> MacSlow, ps ax | grep 3800
[11:28] <pitti> mac_v: grepping for "pwfeed" doesn't give anything in our sudo version
[11:28] <pitti> perhaps it's in a later version, or only cvs head
[11:28] <MacSlow> seb128, got a hint from pedro_ ... all I was missing was to call ssh-add
[11:29] <mac_v> pitti: aw :( , nvm then :)
[11:29] <MacSlow> seb128, still no clue why this was needed on my desktop but not on my laptop
[11:29] <seb128> MacSlow, you shouldn't need that
[11:29] <seb128> MacSlow, well you have an agent taking over gnome-keyring...
[11:31] <mac_v> pitti: maybe our version is very old. i found the changelog entry in git , it seems to be done somewhere in feb
[11:31] <mac_v> anyway , thanks for looking into it :)
[12:50] <huats> hi everyone
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> hi huats
[12:57] <huats> hey chrisccoulson
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> huats - how are you?
[12:57] <huats> chrisccoulson, I am fine
[12:57] <huats> I am about to see the end of my long lasting work marathon :)
[12:58] <huats> you ?
[13:01] <chrisccoulson> huats - yeah, i'm not too bad. i'm just preparing to finish work for the week :)
[13:08] <huats> chrisccoulson, :)
[13:09] <huats> chrisccoulson, I have been quite away lately, is the baby arrived ?
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> huats - yes, she arrived during the week of UDS :)
[13:09] <huats> :)
[13:09] <huats> is everything ok ?
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> yeah, she's doing ok. although, she's going through a bit of a growth spurt the last couple of days and is feeding a lot more than she is sleeping ;)
[13:11] <huats> :)
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti - how is it determined whether to show the "Safely Remove Device" option in Nautilus for a particular device?
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> i noticed last night that it is shown for my internal card reader
[13:17] <Keybuk> I want a second option
[13:17] <Keybuk> "Dangerously Remove Device"
[13:17] <chrisccoulson> and clicking it unfortunately leaves the card reader powered down until I reboot (or open the case and reconnect it to the internal USB port)
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - that would be a fourth option (in addition to Unmount, Eject and Safely Remove Device)
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> l(
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> i see all 3 options for my card reader
[13:18] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: I was more channelling mpt; if something can be done Safely then there should be a Dangerously
[13:18] <Keybuk> if Safely is the only option, why say Safely? :p
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> that is a fair point
[13:19] <Keybuk> the Mini 10v has an odd problem like that
[13:19] <Keybuk> if you power down a USB device, you lose the port
[13:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: the problem with internally-wired USB card readers was the very reason why this option is exposed in the UI in the first place, and isn't the default when you click the eject symbol
[13:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: the problem is that it's hard to determine whether an USB controller is system-internal or external
[13:20] <Keybuk> you have to power the netbook off and on again properly to get the port back
[13:20] <Keybuk> pitti: it's not hard
[13:20] <pitti> some devices want to be unpowered to stop whining about "dangerous to remove me"
[13:20] <Keybuk> you just quirk them
[13:20] <Keybuk> "this device on this board => don't power off"
[13:21] <pitti> Keybuk: we looked at the udev and dmidecode data, and nothing on the dell thing where it was reported tells you that it's on-board :(
[13:21] <Keybuk> pitti: right, but the combination of the dmi of the board and the device tells you
[13:21] <pitti> right, you'd need per-vendor/product lists
[13:21] <Keybuk> yes
[13:21] <Keybuk> that'd be part of the hardware certification process
[13:21] <pitti> which is a bit crazy to maintain
[13:21] <Keybuk> it's basically what we have to do for sound cards anyway
[13:21] <Keybuk> "this codec, from this vendor, on this device id, on this sound card device/vendor, on this board => these quirks"
[13:22] <Keybuk> there's a generic approach to this going into the kernel
[13:22] <Keybuk> devicetree
[13:22] <pitti> I think kay figured a way how to extract it from some device descriptors, so that when the OEM does its job properly it'd just work
[13:22] <Keybuk> Kay tends to think per-device
[13:22] <Keybuk> this is for system quirks
[13:22] <Keybuk> idea being that you end up with a big database of quirks that everyone shares
[13:22] <Keybuk> quirks are cross-device, that's kinda the point
[13:23] <chrisccoulson> in my case, i just purchased a card reader and shoe-horned it in to my already cramped case. i don't know how a quirks database would handle that
[13:23] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: if it were a property of the physical card reader, the device you bought would be quirked
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> so, it seems the problem is more complicated than i first thought :)
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> anyway, home time for me now
[13:26] <Keybuk> yeah
[13:26] <Keybuk> the problem is because another device, with an identical chip, probably works fine
[13:26] <Keybuk> and all we see is the chip from a driver POV
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the same chip is probably used in a different external card reader somewhere
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> so, i don't know how cases like that would be handled
[13:27] <Keybuk> that's where devicetree is supposed to help
[13:28] <Keybuk> it lets you combine matches across multiple devices
[13:28] <Keybuk> "this chip, with three ports numbered X, Y and Z, with this other chip on the same PCI device => this actual device"
[13:28] <Keybuk> then you add properties to the actual devices which udev can pick up
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> that sounds promising anyway:)
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> right, bbl
[14:01] <Ng> which package should I file a wishlist bug on if I want to propose using a device-specific icon for a particular USB device?
[14:01] <Ng> (my iphone looks like a camera in computer:// ;)
[14:05] <virtuald> i guess it's nautilus
[14:10] <pitti> Ng: known bug, I think
[14:10]  * pitti looks
[14:11] <chriscc0> bah, ISP fail.
[14:12] <seb128> Ng, no need to open a bug
[14:12] <seb128> Ng, we don't build the gvfs afc code yet
[14:12] <seb128> because required libs are waiting on mir in lucid
[14:12] <seb128> iphones are very specific devices
[14:12] <mclasen> Ng: is it a gphoto mount ?
[14:12] <pepsifx357> Has anyone else been having problems with the mouse in 9.10?
[14:14] <pitti> asac: do you happen to know why nm-applet constantly updates gconf with the "timestamp" value of wifis?
[14:14] <pitti> what's that used for?
[14:15] <Keybuk> we should have those yummy Fedora nautilus patches
[14:15] <Keybuk> that actually let you access all the data on your iphone
[14:15] <mclasen> Keybuk: they are all upstream, I hope
[14:15] <pitti> it does that every minute or so, which prevents hard drives from ever going to powersave mode
[14:16] <asac> pitti: not sure. what timestamp are you referring to?
[14:16] <asac> pitti: NM keeps track of "last connected time"
[14:17] <asac> so it can decide which net to prefer in case there are more than one known in sight
[14:17] <pitti> ah, that
[14:17] <asac> is that an issue?
[14:17] <pitti> nevermind, it's not actually rewritten each minute
[14:17] <asac> how often do you see those updates?
[14:17] <pitti> I just mis-looked
[14:17] <asac> kk
[14:18] <Ng> mclasen: yes, it's not wrong to give it a camera icon, I'm just being picky because I'd like it to be a icon representing an iphone ;)
[14:18] <Ng> pitti: seb128: ok, thanks :)
[15:12] <Keybuk> mclasen: you've not worked with Fedora much, have you? :p
[15:12] <Keybuk> they're infamous for carrying patches in Fedora for software they're upstream for!
[15:35] <dobey> heh
[15:38] <dobey> Ng: hrmm, it really should be specifying "phone-apple-iphone(-{3g, 3gs})" which should fall back to "phone"
[15:39] <seb128> dobey, the issue is that iphones are cameras and phones too
[15:39] <seb128> ie several devices to list for gvfs
[15:39] <dobey> seb128: device icons should be shown as what the device *is*. they are phones that just happen to have cameras or that can play mp3s
[15:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, I found your bug in lazr that was keeping bughugger from working bug #495326
[15:40] <seb128> rickspencer3, I got the subscription email, thank you
[15:40] <seb128> I didn't try the change yet though
[15:40] <seb128> will do that a bit later
[15:40] <rickspencer3> seb128, why not wait until the bug is fixed?
[15:40] <dobey> a phone is a phone, even if it can microwave a sausage.
[15:40] <rickspencer3> should be an update next week
[15:40] <seb128> ok
[15:40] <Ng> I want a phone that can microwave sausages
[15:41] <seb128> I wanted to try bughugger
[15:41] <rickspencer3> did you guys see this:
[15:41] <rickspencer3> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml
[15:41] <seb128> but that's probably not for today now
[15:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, it's a one line change if you just want to implement it yourself
[15:41] <dobey> Ng: with a slight adjustment of power, i'm sure the iphone can do it
[15:41] <pitti> Ng: you want http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM thhen
[15:41] <pitti> Ng: (sorry, German sound)
[15:41] <Ng> hehe
[15:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, nice!
[15:42] <dobey> Ng: or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgt2dJU2TNk
[15:43] <seb128> ok, I've to be away for a bit
[15:43] <seb128> bbl
[15:43] <rickspencer3> note that Dell website is a bit odd ... you can get better Ubuntu options if you go to the small business section of the site
[15:51] <mclasen> Keybuk: at least we are upstream...
[15:51] <czajkowski> rickspencer3: you had to get quickly into the shotofjaq tweet ;)
[15:52] <rickspencer3> czajkowski, you know me well
[15:53] <czajkowski> rickspencer3: to be fair you don't tweet it that often
[15:53] <rickspencer3> but when I do, I tweet about Quickly
[15:55] <czajkowski> you tweet quality!
[15:57] <pitti> rickspencer3, kenvandine: since I need to leave in 35 mins, any chance that either of you could lurk in the release meeting today? I'll cover the desktop part, but just in case there are followup questions/things later on?
[15:58] <Keybuk> mclasen: only because if you're not upstream, you nih it
[15:58] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[15:58] <kenvandine> sure
[15:58] <Keybuk> mclasen: (I'm mostly only teasing really :p)
[15:58]  * rickspencer3 joins
[15:58] <Keybuk> but ABRT!
[15:58]  * rickspencer3 join #ubuntu-meeting
[15:59] <rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, kenvandine, anybody:
[15:59] <rickspencer3> I want to get a python library packaged and in a ppa today
[15:59] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ok
[15:59] <rickspencer3> is there a definitive guide that will walk me through this that one of you can recommend to me?
[16:00] <kenvandine> python-mkdebian
[16:00] <kenvandine> :)
[16:00] <rickspencer3> aah the quitessential linux smart ass answer
[16:00] <rickspencer3> ;)
[16:00] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:00] <kenvandine> or use my quickly branch that does it :)
[16:01] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, that didn't work either
[16:01] <mclasen> Keybuk: I know, I know...
[16:01] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, oh?
[16:01] <kenvandine> what happened?
[16:01] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3 :)
[16:01] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'd be happy to trouble shoot it with you, but I was hoping not to bother you guys with this today, and just learn how to fish
[16:02] <kenvandine> you need a pretty simple setup.py and run python-mkdebian
[16:03] <kenvandine> that will get you like 90%
[16:03] <kenvandine> not sure of a definitive guide :)
[16:03] <pitti> there's always the python policy
[16:03] <pitti> but I'd just take a look at an existing small python library package
[16:03] <didrocks> pitti, seb128: I've almost finished the session thing (both une and gdm default session choice). Do I update the cra... hem, the impacted packages to the desktop team ppa this week-end? :)
[16:04] <pitti> didrocks: nice! sure, or just upload..
[16:04] <didrocks> pitti: ok, I'll first check I can upload all packages depending on the change (should be ok)
[16:05] <rickspencer3> d'oh! no devscripts installed on this machine
[16:05]  * rickspencer3 face palm
[16:06] <didrocks> hum... this reminds me that I didn't add a WI for devscripts dependency on Quickly (investigate and remove the postfix install)
[16:07] <didrocks> oh no, there is one :)
[16:26] <pitti> I'm off for the weekend, cu on Monday!
[16:28] <didrocks> pitti: have a good week-end!
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[16:45] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3 - how are you?
[16:46] <rickspencer3> doing well
[16:46] <rickspencer3> been working a lot o bughugger, and by extension my new pet project
[16:46] <rickspencer3> how is the baby?
[16:46] <chrisccoulson> yeah, she's doing ok. she's actually asleep at the moment :)
[16:46] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:54] <djsiegel2> hey Amaranth
[21:42] <Amaranth> djsiegel: pong
[22:00] <djsiegel> yo Amaranth
[22:00] <Amaranth> hey
[22:00] <djsiegel> will this work for you: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/495641 /
[22:01] <djsiegel> is that enough info to write the patch? it links to a wiki page
[22:02] <djsiegel> and tell me what you think of:
[22:02] <djsiegel> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/495641
[22:02] <djsiegel> brb
[22:02] <Amaranth> djsiegel: Looks good
[22:02] <Amaranth> djsiegel: I can probably make clicking on the desktop exit scale too
[22:13] <djsiegel> Amaranth: seriously?
[22:13] <djsiegel> that would be awesome
[22:13] <Amaranth> sure, we already have the hook for making it show desktop and the code to exit scale
[22:13] <djsiegel> I really dont want clicking on the desktop to Show Desktop
[22:13] <djsiegel> sweet
[22:14] <Amaranth> I just need to hook the two together
[22:15] <djsiegel> I think it should rather be if click on window x, exit scale and focus x; else exit scale
[22:15] <djsiegel> i.e. a click in Scale mode either picks a window or exits
[22:15] <djsiegel> if we just do click on desktop to exit scale, scale won't exit if the user clicks on the panel, for example, Amaranth
[22:16] <Amaranth> Alright, I should be able to do that as well
[22:16] <Amaranth> Did you mention that use case in the bug report?
[22:16] <djsiegel> Totally rad, you rock.
[22:16] <Amaranth> Otherwise I'll probably forget and just make it for the desktop
[22:17] <djsiegel> ok, I will add that
[22:17] <djsiegel> should I add to the LP bug or the upstream one?
[22:17] <Amaranth> I wish launchpad had some way of identifying priority other than the Critical, High, Medium, Low, and Wishlist
[22:17] <Amaranth> LP bug
[22:17] <djsiegel> ok
[22:17] <Amaranth> I guess I can target the bugs to a release for priority
[22:18] <djsiegel> ok, I changed the description to suggest "Click to Exit Scale" instead of "Click Desktop to Exit Scale"
[22:20] <jcastro> djsiegel: do you have the settings you are working on someplace? I'd like to follow along
[22:21] <jcastro> djsiegel: something I can click and mess with?
[22:22] <djsiegel> jcastro: yeah
[22:23] <djsiegel> jcastro: $ bzr branch lp:compiz-settings-lucid; cd compiz-settings-lucid; python compiz-settings.py
[22:23] <djsiegel> jcastro: these are pretty close to what we'll use
[22:23] <jcastro> thanks!
[22:23] <djsiegel> a few things don't load right when you do that, like minimize animations and a color in the viewport switcher
[22:32] <djsiegel> hey Amaranth, one more quick thing
[22:33] <djsiegel> in the specs, I am writing color values as "outline_color = #FFFFFF32"
[22:33] <djsiegel> where the first 6 hex digits are RGB, and the last 2 are alpha
[22:33] <djsiegel> I am not sure how you need to encode RGBA in the patch though
[22:33] <Amaranth> white with 32% transparency or white with 32 out of 255 transparency?
[22:33] <Amaranth> You should probably encode the alpha in hex too
[22:33] <djsiegel> 32 of 255
[22:33] <Amaranth> oh, you are :)
[22:34] <djsiegel> ah, wait
[22:34] <Amaranth> wait, now I'm confused
[22:34] <Amaranth> 32 in hex out of FF, right?
[22:34] <djsiegel> #32 is 50/255 deciaml
[22:34] <djsiegel> dec.
[22:34] <djsiegel> yes
[22:34] <Amaranth> ok, assuming I don't try to overthink it when making the change that shouldn't be a problem
[23:08] <cj> which one of you lives in Bryant again?  would you mind joining us at #ubuntu-wa-us for a moment?
[23:10] <rickspencer3> I just received two of the three Dell Mini's that I ordered
[23:10]  * rickspencer3 resists pull to get distracted from work and set them up
[23:11] <Amaranth> arg, chrome switched from a User Scripts folder to doing some weird thing with extensions being user scripts so I can't just copy the launchpad ones in anymore
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3 - 3 dell mini's? what are you going to do with them all? ;)
[23:12] <rickspencer3> one for me, and one for each of my kids
[23:12] <cj> rickspencer3: I bet it's you ;)
[23:12] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:12] <rickspencer3> nope, kind of a christmas gift for my wife in a way, keep the kids off of her computer :)
[23:13] <rickspencer3> in any case, I ordered them with Ubuntu 8.04 installed, but I'll put Lucid on my and Karmic on the other two
[23:13] <cj> rickspencer3: we're planning a release event at UW for Lucid over on #ubuntu-wa-us ;)
[23:13] <rickspencer3> seriously?
[23:13] <rickspencer3> can I come?
[23:13] <cj> rickspencer3: yeah.  we want to get a running start
[23:13] <cj> rickspencer3: of course ;)
[23:13] <rickspencer3> I didn't even know there was a #ubuntu-wa-us
[23:14] <cj> it's been quiet.  Paul's the only one who's been there since its inception like 2 years ago
[23:14] <rickspencer3> heh
[23:14] <cj> rickspencer3: if you don't know Paul, you should get to know him.  I met him at LFNW when he was like 15 or something.
[23:14] <rickspencer3> I've been to a couple of gslug meetings, but not for over a  year
[23:14] <cj> yeah, me too.
[23:14] <rickspencer3> who's Paul?
[23:14] <rickspencer3> we could get together with eeejay and do some hacking
[23:15] <cj> rickspencer3: peanutb
[23:15] <cj> rickspencer3: is he back in town?
[23:15] <cj> (eeejay)
[23:16] <rickspencer3> eeejay? so far as I know, but I didn't know he left town
[23:16] <cj> eeejay_away: where you at these days?
[23:16]  * rickspencer3 hopes he didn't move away
[23:16] <cj> I think last time I asked if he wanted to have lunch he was in a different state
[23:17] <rickspencer3> cj, I just got from having lunch in the udistrict
[23:17] <rickspencer3> is that where you are?
[23:17] <cj> rickspencer3: do you think we could hit Canonical up for some bumper stickers or other swag at a table in front of the HUB?
[23:17] <rickspencer3> fo' sho'
[23:17] <cj> rickspencer3: usually, but my office flooded due to a burst pipe, so I'm working from home
[23:17] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:18] <rickspencer3> bummer
[23:18] <cj> yeah.  being at the office would keep me from concentrating on finishing the final anyway ;)
[23:18] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:18]  * rickspencer3 gets ready to do a (hopefully not too hairy) merge
[23:19]  * rickspencer3 hates merging
[23:19] <cj> merging's not so bad.  manual conflict resolution is the painful part ;)
[23:20] <rickspencer3> right
[23:20] <rickspencer3> I think trunk diverged a bit from my branch
[23:20] <cj> heh, pull on every commit!
[23:23] <Amaranth> yay, I (mostly) got my user scripts back
[23:25] <Amaranth> bleh, I forgot to give the extension permissions
[23:35] <rickspencer3> only 1 merge conflict, and it was easy


[00:48] <ubptgbot> Craig Cohen was added by: Craig Cohen
[00:50] <ubptgbot> <Craig Cohen> Hey all, I am attempting the touch install on a nexus 5 and was wondering if the phone has to be unlocked ? I am old supernewb and just not sure
 Yes, the bootloader on the phone must be unlocked to install
[00:50] <ubptgbot> <Craig Cohen> Thanks
 Guys and gals, another question, thinking about moving to 16.04... You see any reason for the Syncthing app (vivid) not to work on Xenial if I install it?
 Has it been rebuilt yet?
 Sorry, what do you mean by that?
 https://open-store.io/app/syncthing.zeropointenergy
 Looks like it hasn't been uploaded to the Xenial store
 Exactly, that's why I'm asking
 If you think it would still work if I download the click package and just try
 Hmm... Not sure if it has compiled stuff or not
 ZeroPointEnergy, you over there?
 He is not
 Is that Jakob?
 Andreas. https://github.com/ZeroPointEnergy/syncthing-click
 Hmm. Not sure where he's ended up...
 Not idling in Halium, either
 So (sorry for my thickness) using those we could build it for xenial?
 I suppose?
 Good enough. Once I swap to Xenial I'll try
 Thanks!
 @Stereofont, I can't able to install Ubuntu on my phone through window only recovery working and additional files still delay to download so how to install through ubuntu
 @dohbee @alan_griffiths
 Hey, no need to ping people who might be asleep anyway
 There are people in the welcome and install room who love to help people get started on Ubuntu Touch. maybe try joining @WelcomePlus and ask there
 @Gorsh2, ¿Cual es ese?
 Might be a little bit until you get an answer, it's not a good time for most of the world
 @Abrahamarv, https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
 @Gorsh2, Gracias!
 @UniversalSuperBox, Ok
 I hate to be that fella but has there been any progress with the port for the oneplus 3/3t or are all the efforts being put on the 16.04 version?
 @AngelDMercedes, Right, 16.04 has been a priority. Once that is more stable, there is opportunity to branch out to more features and ports. It's always open for community contributions though, so if there were someone with the skills to help out in that area, then there is documentation and guidance for such things.
 I could try to port it again but I am just afraid the process will kick my ass for the second time lol
 I tried once with the nexus 6 and that didn't work out so well
 got super close but didn't get it to fully boot
 Good on you for taking the first steps. That is admirable. There may be someone with more experience who can give some advice.
 When I'm using the terminal on UT and I switch to another application, why does an ssh session end?
 I have Ubuntu touch on a Oneplus one (borrowed phone) and that was super easy to install
 Hey guys.... … Can I use UBPorts as a base and then create my own phone OS flavor based off of that?
 You are free to do so, it is open source
 What license it has?
 most likely gpl
 V3?
 Not sure lol
 Some parts seems to be v3 and others are licensed with LGPL as well (just looked at some of the repos)
 @amolith, IIRC UT has not an concept of multi-tasking (yet), so if you leave a window the application is suspended.  … You should be able to `fg` the ssh session you hade previously after you switch back to the terminal, but you won't have readline-support, so it's not really useful. … I think you can disable the suspend beh
[06:24] <ubptgbot> aviour for specific apps somewhere in gconf, but I am not sure where exactly atm and if that stops suspending shell sessions on leaving the terminal window.
 @criztovyl, Well, I just tried disabeling app suspension for the terminal app and my ssh sessiob is still running. :)
 Probably the easier way to prevent app suspension is using UT Tweak tool
 @criztovyl, You can use the UT Tweak Tool from the Open Store and then can disable the suspension when you switch from "Behaviour" to "Apps Scopes" using the Hamburger menu, scrolling down to „Terminal” and enabeling „Prevent App Suspension”. :)
 @advocatux, i type too slow :D
 :D
 @criztovyl, note that your app might now be killed by the system if memory is low. (killed, not suspended)
 btw, just for fun i recently hacked together a script that shuffles my music album-based, it was fun. :D
 i wrote a little qml file that binds to media-scanner and writes all available tracks to stdout/log using an list model. (so you still have to manually scroll through all the tracks, but that's not that bad)
 i write out the tracks as json, extracting those lines from the log using a shell script.
 that json(s) i parse using python, which the groups by album and shuffles by that.
 iat the end i create a playlist with those tracks in the music app's sqlite playlist database.
 and all with only the terminal app, vi and qmlviewer. :D
 [Edit] and all with only the terminal app, vim and qmlviewer. :D
 (vim in terminal app)
 much fun
 maybe i can upload the sources somewhere somewhen
 @criztovyl, using python's sqlite module
 @criztovyl the music app needs some love and it seems you have the necessary skills to do the job 😉 … Just in case you want to take a look https://github.com/ubports/music-app/issues
 Of course, the main issue is this https://github.com/ubports/music-app/issues/1 :)
 I already thought about that, especially because the music app is _so_ important to me, but I am not sure if I can take that time currently. (And I don't want to make promises for the future I can't hold.)
 Sorry. :/
 @criztovyl, ```phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ubuntu-app-usage … webbrowser-app                                                  6127256 seconds … com.ubuntu.music_music                                          2457214 seconds … [...]```
 @criztovyl, [Edit] ```phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ubuntu-app-usage … webbrowser-app               6127256 seconds … com.ubuntu.music_music       2457214 seconds … [...]```
 but now you asked i increased the priority a little bit, let's see.
 the priority which project to try next ^^
 I think you don't have to commit yet … you can start by checking some issues that you think you can solve with the time you can give 👍
 you'd be surprised there are issues that are easy to fix 😉
 @criztovyl, No problem
 Hi, do i need to have an existing OS with developer mode installed to use the ubports-installer? The thing is, i wiped the system, so i can't set developer mode anywhere anymore. In the installer, i select my FP2 manually, but the installer waits for me to reboot into ubports recovery, and can't detect my devices there (when the
[08:36] <ubptgbot>  ubports recovery is loaded).
 If all you have on the device is the UBports recovery, the developer status doesn't apply. This looks like FP2 being troublesome
 Try an early version of the installer. 0.1.12 or earlier
[09:13] <ubptgbot> leonardoagqz was added by: leonardoagqz
 @dohbee, what is it missing atm? (aside from tv)
 @Stereofont, will try now
 Btw, do you guys recommend to try 16.04/rc or stay with 15.04/stable? I do want to use it as a daily driver, but only things i need working is call function + telegram
 [Edit] Btw, do you guys recommend to try 16.04/rc or stay with 15.04/stable? I do want to use it as a daily driver, but the only features i need are call function + telegram
 i tried version 0.1.12-beta and 0.1.7-beta, both version didn't detect my fp2 when it entered the ubports recovery. Gonna flash an android image, enable developer options, and try again
 My vote is for 16.04 rc 👍
 15.04 is very dated and security is a struggle because it is so old. 16.04 is a much better implementation
 It seems there's still something going wrong with FP2 and the installer though
 @Fuseteam, Most everything. TV is irrelevant
 @advocatux, +111111111
 I'm noticing some issues that I haven't had the opportunity to test yet but sometimes, entire albums won't play. Not sure if it's because there are so many tracks, if it's an issue with the file format (shouldn't be though), or something else.
[13:42] <ubptgbot> Bonn333 was added by: Bonn333
 @criztovyl, This might be an opportunity to do a email blast for a call "call for maintainers" and highlight the music app as a high priority. I recall the email list has sub-segments of devs vs those who are just following the project. Just a thought...
 there's a mailing list too?
 Rodney Dawes (Telegram): eeeh what i thought it was working :eyes: are you referring to apps?
 didn't know that 👀
 (Photo, 1504x739) https://irc.ubports.com/64NDqWsh.png
 @profetik777, Mailing list ?
 @Fuseteam, convergence isn't any one thing. apps is a huge part of it, and being able to render on an external display is a very small part
 @Flohack, The marketing ones
 The mass mailing lists, rather
[15:18] <ubptgbot> Nageenchand was added by: Nageenchand
 hello guys
 we are planning a 'larger reach out' for devs.  mailing lists may be part of this process.  all eyes are focused on popping 16.04 out of the womb (nice visual eh??) and then it's world domination from there.   more on this as the story develops.  Stay tuned here and, of course, if you aren't subscribed to the telegram news cha
[15:20] <ubptgbot> nnel you can do that in one click here: … https://t.me/ubports_news
 and.. wassup @profetik777 nice to see you back
 ah so you are refering to apps makes sense yeah hehe silly me
 @Nageenchand, Hi & welcome! I think you'll find this https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome interesting :)
 Video von Sebastian Maier
 (Video, 13s) https://irc.ubports.com/Lgtj5X8Q.mp4
 hmm is there still a lag?
 sent@12:59utc-3
 doesn't look like it 👀
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yeah, sorry, had to step away.
 @wayneoutthere, 'ello, thanks.
 @lschmelting, I flashed lineageos 15.1 and then installed via ubports installer. I'm on 16.04/rc now :)
 @Stereofont, Thank you for your suggestions :)
 @lschmelting, Excellent!
 I'm very glad to help you! .....
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/nr3PGlYA.mp4
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/c4z3dvJU.png
 GIF
 Sorry, wrong group. … It's for QA :)
 k
 👀
 (Photo, 1280x920) https://irc.ubports.com/2zeQ7A4S.png Scusa, dovevo
 Valve announced they will be letting linux users play windows games on steam via wine built into steam 😄
 Whoops meant to post that in OT
 but thanks that are good news for me 😂


[02:14] <hvaara> I'm getting 404s when I run `apt update` on an arm64 system right now. http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jammy/universe/binary-arm64/Packages for example. Looking in http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jammy/universe/ I don't even see `binary-arm64`.


[02:40] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc. Have you looked at the notes we made here yet? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/interviewswithhumphreybc
[04:37] <humphreybc> godbyk, yep
[04:37] <humphreybc> interview has been delayed till tuesday because some of the presenters are sick
[06:49]  * pleia2 waves to humphreybc
[06:49] <pleia2> thanks for making that blueprint
[07:13] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[07:13] <godbyk> Had to help my friend's sister-in-law with some VB.NET class she's taking.
[09:50] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[09:50] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: ping
[10:07] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I have to go an help my dad but have you got a meeting planned on sunday? I would like to do a quickshot one at 8pm utc sunday the 18th of april
[11:28] <ubuntujenkins> back
[16:42] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: pong
[16:43] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: ping
[16:43] <humphreybc> what's up?
[16:43] <ubuntujenkins> have you got a meeting planned on sunday? I would like to do a quickshot one at 8pm utc sunday the 18th of april
[16:45] <humphreybc> this sunday? none for this sunday
[16:45] <humphreybc> but we should probably have one next weekend, yeah
[16:45] <ubuntujenkins> not this sunday i would like a quickshot one next sunday
[16:45] <humphreybc> k
[16:45] <ubuntujenkins> is there a mnaul one then?
[16:45] <ubuntujenkins> *manual
[16:45] <humphreybc> manual ones are normally 8pm UTC on saturday
[16:46] <ubuntujenkins> I was sure the manual ones were sunday as well. I will mail the list.
[16:46] <humphreybc> nope, they're saturday night UTC
[16:46] <ubuntujenkins> Can i add it to the meetings wiki as well
[16:46] <humphreybc> sure go for it
[16:47] <humphreybc> mail both the QS and the manual lists
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> I might have missed allot of meeting then
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> I will
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> Thanks
[16:48] <humphreybc> no probs
[16:48] <humphreybc> bedtime for me i think
[16:48] <humphreybc> night!
[16:49] <humphreybc> oh btw
[16:49] <humphreybc> the UUPC interview is delayed till tuesday now because some of the presenters are sick
[16:49] <humphreybc> but i have the full circle magazine interview in about 17 hours
[16:49] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc, for the podcast?
[16:50] <ubuntujenkins> good luck, night humphreybc
[16:50] <humphreybc> yup
[16:50] <semioticrobotic> awesome
[16:50] <semioticrobotic> glad that worked out
[16:50] <humphreybc> yeah, thanks for setting that up
[16:50] <semioticrobotic> no problem
[16:50] <humphreybc> anyway, i'm going to hit the sack
[16:50] <humphreybc> night!
[16:50] <semioticrobotic> any meeting today?
[16:50] <ubuntujenkins> o.
[16:50] <ubuntujenkins> o/
[16:50] <semioticrobotic> oh, night!
[16:50] <ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: i don't think there is a meeting
[16:51] <semioticrobotic> okay, cool
[16:51] <semioticrobotic> just wanted to make sure
[16:51] <semioticrobotic> I know most of us writers and editors are in a holding pattern because of the translation work
[16:51] <ubuntujenkins> yep we all are
[16:52] <semioticrobotic> but I didn't know if Benjamin needed a meeting to discuss the roadmap for our next revision
[16:52] <semioticrobotic> I'm happy for another week off :)
[16:52] <ubuntujenkins> i am happy too
[16:55] <semioticrobotic> well, that frees up some time on my Saturday!  I'm off to enjoy it.
[16:55] <semioticrobotic> take care, ubuntujenkins
[16:56] <ubuntujenkins> bye semioticrobotic have a fun saturday
[16:56] <semioticrobotic> will do
[19:31] <c7p> hello
[19:32] <c7p> somewhere in a string i found, the \ie , well should i translate the ie or leave it as it is?
[20:02] <ubuntujenkins> evening all
[20:02] <thorwil> evening!
[20:03] <ubuntujenkins> hello thorwil
[20:47] <ubuntujenkins> evening daker how are you?
[20:47] <daker> yeah fine thanks and you ?
[20:50] <ubuntujenkins> I am good, I have found a side project to work on
[20:50] <daker> explain
[20:51] <ubuntujenkins> i thought i would have a go at bringing back https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault
[20:51] <ubuntujenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault/ScreenShots
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> its a bit old it doesn't run in lucid
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> I am tryind to convert it to a quickly project
[20:55] <daker> ya old
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> I a, trying to find out why it stoped
[20:57] <daker> very good
[22:26] <c7p> hello guys
[22:26] <c7p> i think i found a bug on a string on launchpad
[22:26] <daker> hey c7p
[22:27] <c7p> what should i do?
[22:27] <daker> string on the manual ?
[22:27] <c7p> yap
[22:28] <c7p> this page https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+filebug , is the right place?
[22:28] <daker> yes
[22:28] <daker> should ask ubuntujenkins
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> ask me what daker ?
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> hello c7p
[22:29] <c7p> hello
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> whats the error c7p?
[22:30] <c7p> the string number 1422 has the same sentence two times
[22:30] <c7p> check it out
[22:30] <c7p> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/+translate?field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&show=all&start=1420
[22:31] <ubuntujenkins> and 1424 does
[22:32] <c7p> yap from what i see now
[22:32] <daker> c7p, +1
[22:33] <ubuntujenkins> please file a bug on it x7p and link it in here an i will confirm it
[22:33] <c7p> i hope we won't lose any strings (apart from the bugged ones of course )
[22:33] <c7p> ubuntujenkins, ok
[22:34] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: it exists on page 124 of revison 772 of the manual
[22:34] <ubuntujenkins> thanks
[22:35] <c7p> i don't understand
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: thats were people can look if they want to check for it in the english manual
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> I will add it as a comment
[22:38] <c7p> ok
[22:42] <daker> ubuntujenkins, http://getnightingale.org/ a fork of songbird
[22:44] <ubuntujenkins> daker: glad someone is taking up its devlopment since it has been dropped. I didn't get on with songbird
[22:48]  * daker go go go
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> night team
[23:01] <daker> night ubuntujenkins
[23:38] <daker> godbyk, here ?
[23:56] <godbyk> daker: yes.
[23:56] <daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[23:56] <godbyk> (as long as my Internet connection holds out. it's been up and down all day [again!])
[23:57] <daker> help!!!
[23:57] <godbyk> lol
[23:57] <godbyk> okay, how can I help?
[23:58] <daker> with the branches


[12:18] <Admiral_Chicago_> same here, waiting to get on my computer.manager in Feisty, perhaps the regular Ubuntu disc is right for you.  Either way, send th
[12:18] <Admiral_Chicago_> grr, sorry about that
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Do you have a copy of the TOC for TOUB, ed. 2, or a list of topics covered / how it differs from ed. 1 in terms of new content besides just updating relevance?
[05:16] <Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: the biggest bit is a new Edubuntu chapter
[05:16] <Burgundavia> other than that, mostly updates to the content
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> ah
[05:19] <jjesse> the kubuntu section wa a complete re-write
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> Maybe ed. 3 - 'tis good stuff, but no need to have duplicate content on my shelves really
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> jjesse: Ah - Gnome/XFCE guy though
[09:25] <mdke> morning all


[00:31] <daniel__> hello
[01:11] <mparillo> Does everything match under System Settings > Display and Monitor > Display Configuration
[04:24] <Baumchen> hey
[04:47] <Baumchen> Ich  habe eine Frage
[05:00] <kubuntu> hola hola
[05:01] <Bangho> hola hola
[08:28] <gerd> Hello, my question: How can I make kubundu bootable under VM virtualbox. My basic system is MATE-ubuntu 20.04. Error Fatal: "can not read from the boot medium! System halted".
 😌😘😘🎉 just update to
 kubuntu 20.10
 and also updated plasma 5.24
[11:32] <guiverc> @milesdredd, Kubuntu 20.10 is EOL ; https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-20-10-groovy-gorilla-reaches-end-of-life/  (unless you meant 21.10 not 20.10)
 😌😌😌, got tensed for a sec 😂,
 yeaa i m on kubuntu 21.10
[13:31] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[14:40] <GSMarquis> Morning
 Hey, are there any community backports for 20.04 (focal) of KDE/Plasma 5.24?
[15:36] <genii> !info kde-plasma-desktop focal-backports
[15:36] <genii> !info kde-plasma-desktop focal-universe
[15:37] <genii> !info kde-plasma-desktop focal
 This is quite old. It is pity, (k)ubuntu 20.04 is a LTS release and as such widely supported (e.g. for ROS) but it doesn't get backports anymore. For Debian stable/bullseye, there are community packages on OBS: https://www.preining.info/blog/2022/02/kde-plasma-5-24-for-debian/. Would they work on focal?
 AFAIK focal is based on bullseye/sid
 The latest Plasma release on 20.04 LTS is 5.18.8
[18:47] <Swift110-mobile> sup folks
[18:51] <enyc> Swift110-mobile: sup1381/sup2311
[18:55] <Swift110-mobile> how are you enyc
[18:55] <Maik> casual chit-chat is in #kubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-offtopic
[18:55] <Swift110-mobile> sure
[18:57] <Maik> thanks :)
[19:36] <derek-shnosh> Heyo, what's the trick to getting a screenshot of the overview?
[22:05] <wicus> hi


[05:16] <gehidore> well there's some disappoint
[05:17] <gehidore> all that work to get the correct 3a xl and then my carrier isn't supported apparently because volte?


[00:38] <acer_> hi I have big troubles with activating wireless in acer 5310
[02:17] <MitigationElf> Can anyone help me with installing Ubuntu on my HP Touchsmart iQ775? The monitor does not work properly
[02:23] <duanedesign> hello MitigationElf
[02:24] <MitigationElf> Hello duanedesign
[02:25] <MitigationElf> I have installed ubuntu on my touchsmart and the integrated monitor does not work. This is my first experience with Ubuntu. If I can just get it to where I can see what is happening I can probably figure out the rest.
[02:28] <duanedesign> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8851934&postcount=4
[02:28] <duanedesign> i dont know a lot about tablets, but this might help?^^
[02:29] <MitigationElf> Actually, this is thier touchscreen desktop
[02:31] <MitigationElf> What happens is that I can see the screen barely - but it is not clear. I am most familiar with Windows. If thsi was the Windows OS, I would say it needs a driver correction
[02:37] <MitigationElf> duanedesign: Thank you for the link... I will see if I can find anything in the forums that will help.
[05:53] <smeag0l> good morning everybody
[06:08] <tenach> Hello SmartViking
[06:08] <tenach> * smeag0l
[06:08] <tenach> tab fail.
[06:09] <smeag0l> thats alright tenach
[06:10] <smeag0l> it happens to even the best of us :)
[06:11] <smeag0l> in the town where i live u2 played yesterday and there gonna give another concart today ;-D
[06:11] <smeag0l> *concert
[06:13] <tenach> Cool. :D
[06:13] <smeag0l> very much indeed tenach ;D
[06:16] <smeag0l> my brother in law whom is married to my little sister is a u2 fan he wasn't very pleased when i called him yesterday and asking him where is at the moment :P
[06:16] <smeag0l> *i was
[06:18] <smeag0l> i'm gonna try and find out if i can make a dual boot with Lucid Lynx and http://triaquel.info
[06:18] <smeag0l> *trisquel.info
[06:20]  * smeag0l  afk
[11:46] <duanedesign> morning all
[11:46] <duanedesign> 12
[11:47] <serfus> top of the morning duanedesign
[11:50] <JoeMaverickSett> morning duanedesign!
[16:05] <kaushal> hi
[16:05] <kaushal> can someone please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2010-August/004541.html?
[16:46] <philinux> wassup with forums. Last messages 7 hours ago?
[16:46] <paultag> philinux: wait on it
[16:46] <paultag> philinux: it has been escalated to canonical
[16:47] <paultag> philinux: hang tight
[16:47] <philinux> Ah problem then not just me lol.
[16:47] <paultag> philinux: no, it's down everywhere
[16:49] <sebsebseb>
[18:23] <anniesmum> i have tried to boot from a cd but the page came up bright colored swirls and the words were unreadable what can i do please
[18:23] <pointydrip> I'm try to setup lemonpos and squeeze but I can't login. Is anyone good with MySQL?
[18:27] <Phrea> ok, who here broke UF
[18:33] <anniesmum> does it make a difference that my computer has a touch screen
[18:34] <pointydrip> neither squeeze nor lemonpos are able to connect to the lemondb mysql database, even though I ran the script to create it and am using all the defaults
[18:39] <anniesmum> it was suggested to me to use ubuntu on a cd to boot from to see if I could open an external hard drive I followed the directions but the screen was unreadable it was very bright swirls of colour and I could not read anything that was written on the page . does it make a difference that my computer has a touch screen
[18:40] <nhandler> anniesmum: Maybe try searching on Google to see if the machine has worked for other people with Ubuntu
[18:41] <anniesmum> ok will do
[18:41] <anniesmum> if i change to a laptop will it boot ok to that or do I need a different download
[18:46] <pointydrip> is it possible that by setting my own admin password in mysql, I have denied access to lemonpos?
[18:46] <pointydrip> is there a way to run the mysql install configuration again?
[18:47] <pointydrip> sorry I'm new to mysql
[18:50] <anniesmum> google found me an answer and what to type after it boots up but it wont work for me as the screen is just a mishmash of colors so would like to try it on an ordinary lap top do i use the cd i have made or do I need a different one I think this said download for desktop
[18:50] <anniesmum> but i could not find a laptop one
[18:50] <hobgoblin> anniesmum: as long as you have the right archtecture - 32 or 64 bit for the laptop that will be fine
[18:51] <anniesmum> thank you yes 32 bit
[18:51] <hobgoblin> pointydrip: not able to help - but hang about someone else might be able to
[18:51] <anniesmum> i will go and try it now
[18:51] <hobgoblin> Phrea: it was me - I deleted the cafe
[18:52] <Phrea> gheh
[18:52] <hobgoblin> ;)
[18:53] <pointydrip> hobgoblin: cool, I'm still working on it...
[19:27] <pointydrip> so installed mysql administrator to get an easier look at what is going on in MySQL and a host of error messages appear in the log referring to lemonpos such as: [ERROR] /usr/bin/mysqld: Table './lemondb/transactiontypes' is marked as crashed and should be repaired
[21:17] <pointydrip> ...so I've been toiling over my lemonpos > mySQL connection problem and and all I can think of is that somehow there is an inconsistancy between username/password/privaleges/installation folder that I cannot pinpoint. When I apt-get remove then apt-get install both mysql and lemonpos some of the password info stays the same, how do I get ride of everything mysql and lemonpos related to start from scratch?
[21:18] <pointydrip> I also ran build-dep for both...
[21:24] <pointydrip> is ~$ apt-get purge what I'm looking for?
[21:30] <geirha> pointydrip: That'll at least purge the config as well, though I'm not sure if the database files will still be around or not.
[21:31] <pointydrip> I tried the command DROP for the database implicated
[21:32] <pointydrip> lemonpos comes with a script that creates a mysql database
[21:32] <geirha> After a purge, see if   find /usr/lib /var -iname "*mysql*"  outputs anything
[21:32] <pointydrip> okay
[21:36] <pointydrip> one blog suggested Ubuntu users need kde-devel but provided no further insight, is there any truth behind that (it install 300mbs of packages
[21:41] <pointydrip> it finds all kinds fo stuff
[21:42] <pointydrip> geirha: There are lots of files in var/log
[21:44] <geirha> pointydrip: The ones in /var/log doesn't matter. They are only written to, not read.
[21:44] <pointydrip> geirha: there's 2 python files
[21:44] <geirha> I don't see how kde-devel would help on anything
[21:45] <geirha> In /usr/lib/python-something?
[21:45] <pointydrip> ya
[21:45] <geirha> Those doesn't matter either. They're just libraries. Sounds like everything mysql related are gone now.
[21:46] <pointydrip> should I run the search as root? there were lots of acces denied
[21:46] <pointydrip> *permission denied
[21:47] <geirha> Ah, yeah. Database files would likely not be readable by regular users.
[21:49] <pointydrip> the dpkg stuff is all from the installation right?
[21:50] <pointydrip> after that the only one is /var/lib/update-rc.d/mysql
[21:53] <geirha> Yeah, neither is read by mysql.
[22:08] <pointydrip> geirha: thanks for the help...I have to shut her down for the day
[22:08] <harrison> Hello
[22:08] <harrison> Anyone here good at file system recovery?
[22:09] <harrison> My ext4 File system appers to be corupted (sorry about the spelling)
[22:13] <harrison> Hello?
[22:56] <harrison> Hello?
[22:58] <zkriesse> Hello harrison
[22:59] <harrison> Are you good at filesystem recovery?
[22:59] <zkriesse> Ah depends
[22:59] <zkriesse> !ask
[22:59] <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[22:59] <harrison> Yes ubot2
[22:59] <zkriesse> lol
[23:00] <zkriesse> Just letting you know
[23:00] <harrison> I notised that my computer was running slow, I restarted and got Operating system not found!
[23:01] <zkriesse> Ok
[23:01] <zkriesse> What os?
[23:01] <zkriesse> Ubuntu?
[23:01] <harrison> I booted off a live cd and ran testdisk rebooted and got a grub recovery shell
[23:01] <zkriesse> Ok...
[23:01] <zkriesse> Ah what is the os that is running the system though
[23:02] <harrison> I booted a live cd again and tried accesing the partition to do a full backup I have one from a few months ago and it saied that the file system was corupted!
[23:03] <harrison> A XP Ubuntu dual boot
[23:03] <harrison> ubuntu 10.04
[23:03] <zkriesse> Huh
[23:03] <zkriesse> And what is lost? The entire file system or just one of them
[23:04] <harrison> I only tried accesing the ubuntu one give me a moment and I will try the XP one
[23:05] <zkriesse> Ok
[23:06] <harrison> XP comes up okay I will paste the error that is given for the ubuntu partition
[23:07] <harrison> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479097/
[23:08] <zkriesse> Hmm
[23:10] <harrison> Any ideas?
[23:11] <harrison> I am running a
[23:12] <harrison> (sorry I hit enter to soon)
[23:13] <harrison> I am running a Mint 9 live cd on the machine that has this problem and everything works eccept for my ubuntu partition!
[23:13] <zkriesse> Huh...
[23:13] <zkriesse> I'm sorry but at the moment I'm at a loss!
[23:13] <harrison> If its any help the partition is type ext4
[23:14] <harrison> Would there be anywhere else to go and ask?
[23:14] <harrison> This is only the biginners thread for general topics This is a bit more advanced.
[23:15] <harrison> *This problem
[23:15] <harrison> ['/-0~4~[24~
[23:15] <harrison> [23;2~[23;2~
[23:16] <harrison> My screen when black for a moment there.
[23:23] <harrison> is there a channel called #linux-filesystems (or something to that effect) somewhere?
[23:29] <harrison> This might be the problem: I never setup a LBA for XP but when I ran testdisk  it showed the XP partition a LBA with the filesystem type being something to do with windows 95 then the Ubuntu partition and swap before that there where only 3 partitions and now there are 4!


[02:43] <azend|vps> Does anyone here know bob_smith3 from the forums?
[02:43] <azend|vps> Apparently he lives in an area where there's a house I'm interested in :)
[02:43] <azend|vps> But there has to be good internet first


[03:12] <thumper> just saying something so it isn't tumbleweed town here...
[03:14] <lifeless> \|/-
[03:15] <thumper> lifeless: is that supposed to be a spinner?
[03:15] <lifeless> a tumbleweed
[03:17] <wgrant> thumper: I take it that using this didn't take off? I presume<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is not quite this dead...
[03:17] <thumper> wgrant: I think some people are still concerned about private details
[03:17] <wgrant> thumper: I suppose so.
[03:18] <thumper> wgrant: kfogel will be harassing people in private #launchpad-code once we open source
[03:18] <thumper> but until then...
[03:18]  * thumper shrugs
[03:18] <thumper> we are discussing timing in the team lead meeting tomorrow morning my time
[03:18] <wgrant> Aha.
[03:18] <wgrant> Good news.
[03:18] <wgrant> As long as the discussion doesn't postpone it even more!
[03:18]  * thumper doesn't like the 6am phone calls
[03:19] <thumper> wgrant: it depends on the bzr readiness
[03:19] <thumper> we need to make sure that bzr 1.17 doesn't have bad format 2 bugs
[03:19] <thumper> that is the most likely thing to cause delays
[03:20] <wgrant> OK.
[03:22] <lifeless> thumper: 2 isn't fully baked yet.
[03:23] <lifeless> thumper: but must of the raw edges are on upgrade, which you won't be exposing people to
[03:23] <thumper> right
[03:23] <thumper> lifeless: so format 2 will still be development for 1.17?
[03:23] <lifeless> its released and supported
[03:24] <lifeless> we don't anticipate format changes
[03:24] <lifeless> its just not polished enough to change it to default
[03:24] <lifeless> (remaining critical bugs, missing network delta support, ..)
[03:24] <thumper> lifeless: is the absent content factory one fixed?
[03:26] <lifeless> the one with send is not yet examined
[03:26] <lifeless> (ACF is hopelessly generic)
[03:26]  * thumper nods
[03:26] <lifeless> its like 'the segfault bug with evolution'
[04:37]  * thumper wills himself to continue writing the boring branch
[04:39] <wgrant> What's the boring branch?
[04:41] <thumper> accessing the revision cache
[04:41] <thumper> it'll give us faster counts of recent revisions and revision authors
[04:41] <thumper> and make the revision feeds not time out
[04:41] <thumper> but it is boring work
[06:31] <wgrant> Ah, good to see an attempt at Slashdotting prevention.
[06:32] <wgrant> How big will the new tree be, given the lack of history?
[06:34] <lifeless> do you mean disk size?
[06:35] <wgrant> Yes.
[06:35] <lifeless> there's still a bunch of code:P - fairly sizable
[06:35] <lifeless> I'm not sure of the exact size
[06:37] <thumper> wgrant: I can't really tell you that right now :)
[09:30] <thumper> bigjools: want to fix your broken build?
[09:30] <bigjools> thumper: you speak in forked tongue
[09:31] <thumper> :)
[09:31] <thumper> bigjools: I have something I want to land :)
[09:32] <bigjools> thumper: hassle IS :)
[09:32] <thumper> why?
[09:32] <thumper> why is it their problem?
[09:32] <bigjools> what are you talking about, exactly?
[09:32] <thumper> heh
[09:33] <thumper> http://buildbot.devpad.info/builders/lp/builds/477/steps/shell_7/logs/summary
[09:33] <bigjools> oh bollocks
[09:39] <bigjools> thumper: did you notice it broken for very long?  I didn't get any emails
[09:40] <thumper> I think it finished just over an hour ago
[09:40] <thumper> but I've only just sat down after dinner and kids in bed
[09:40] <bigjools> jeez, I landed it about 12 hours ago
[09:40] <thumper> working until Chuck starts
[09:40] <thumper> bigjools: the dev builder is still the slow one
[09:40] <thumper> that should get fixed
[09:40] <bigjools> seriously


[02:38] <mup> Bug #1519165 opened: MAAS erroneously assumes that it must have a unique interface for an unmanaged network <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519165>
[03:15] <mup> Bug #1519177 opened: MAAS 1.8 fails to find a cluster interface when an off-network node boots <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519177>
[08:45] <mup> Bug #1519247 opened: 1.9 rc2: error in migration when migrating unmanaged subnet <MAAS:Triaged by mpontillo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519247>
[13:37] <mup> Bug #1519358 opened: Non-fatal error message observed in PXE boot sequence <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519358>
[15:27] <Xat`> hi guys
[15:28] <Xat`> is MaaS working on latest ubuntu stable ?
[15:31] <mup> Bug #1519396 opened: mtu field is not exposed over the API for VLAN <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519396>
[15:31] <mup> Bug #1519397 opened: Once a cache_set is created the UI fails with ERROR <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519397>
[15:34] <mup> Bug #1519396 changed: mtu field is not exposed over the API for VLAN <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519396>
[15:34] <mup> Bug #1519397 changed: Once a cache_set is created the UI fails with ERROR <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519397>
[15:40] <mup> Bug #1519396 opened: mtu field is not exposed over the API for VLAN <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519396>
[15:40] <mup> Bug #1519397 opened: Once a cache_set is created the UI fails with ERROR <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519397>
[16:24] <bladernr_> Can someone explain Zones to me in MAAS?  AIUI, it's just a way for me to group systems by some arbitrary location... e.g. I could have a Rack 1 Zone and put all nodes from Rack 1 in that zone, and a Rack 2 zone, etc.
[16:24] <bladernr_> Is there a way to say "Deploy all nodes from Rack 1"
[16:25] <bladernr_> Or can I pass juju a constraint like zone=rack2
[16:30] <bladernr_> nm, answered my own questions...
[17:37] <Xat`> guys, is it possible to create vswitch and vrouter using maas web interface ?
[20:27] <los> Q: Is there any "supported" virtual ways to run MAAS so we can gain some experience w/o buying 10k$ of hardware?
[20:50] <mup> Bug #1519470 opened: Deployment always fails when creating a RAID storage config <hwcert-server> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519470>


[01:07] <ianorlin> ouch http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/81112/a-comcastic-collapse-tech-talk-today-163/


[05:43] <JackyAlcine> Good evening (America/New-York).
[05:43] <JackyAlcine> Is anyone around?
[05:43] <JackyAlcine> I wish to speak to someone, preferrably a programmer.
[05:45] <nigelb> JackyAlcine: What about?
[05:46] <JackyAlcine> Speech recognition.
[05:46] <nigelb> Hrm, not sure who's the right person for that.
[05:46] <JackyAlcine> How about speech synthesis?
[05:47] <JackyAlcine> Or natural language processing?
[05:47] <JackyAlcine> And if you have the time, please take a look at an upcoming project https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechControl
[05:47]  * nigelb looks
[05:48] <nigelb> Ah, you can talk to hajour
[05:48] <JackyAlcine> She's my project director.
[05:48] <nigelb> Ahhh.
[05:49] <JackyAlcine> Yeah. :)
[05:49] <nigelb> In that case, the second best person to talk to would be AlanBell.  He should be online in about an hour or so.'
[05:49] <JackyAlcine> I'm actually working with him as well ;)
[05:50] <nigelb> heh, then you're in good hands already :D
[05:50] <hajour> heya
[05:50] <JackyAlcine> Hey hajour.
[05:50] <JackyAlcine> Did you get my PM?
[05:50] <hajour> was see my name
[05:51] <hajour> uhmi go looking
[05:52] <hajour> done
[05:53] <hajour> what is happen that nigelb  was needed JackyAlcine .?
[05:53] <hajour> i read back here sec
[05:54] <JackyAlcine> I asked for a programmer who had a background in either speech synthesis, speech recognition or natural language processing.
[05:55] <hajour> mmm i shall ask around for you.i may come in the dev rooms from ubuntu
[05:55] <hajour> you can also ask in the motu chat room
[05:55] <JackyAlcine> Okay, thank you.
[05:56] <hajour> they hat say if there was something we may ask for help.if it is realy dificult.
[05:56] <hajour> if they dont can help you
[05:56] <hajour> they know where you have to be fore that
[05:57] <JackyAlcine> That's cool.
[05:57] <JackyAlcine> I'm almost done with that document you wanted.
[05:57] <hajour> ok its good JackyAlcine
[05:57] <hajour> great
[05:57] <JackyAlcine> Might be up via Google Docs before I sleep.
[05:57] <hajour> JackyAlcine,  you also need to sleep ok.
[05:58]  * hajour shakes here head
[05:58] <hajour> nigelb, thanks for listen
[05:58] <nigelb> hajour: Np :)
[05:58] <hajour> :)
[22:14] <hajour> phillw are you back?
[22:24] <hajour> mm he just pinged out to
[22:25] <charlie-tca> yes, netsplits have some bad effects, sometimes
[22:26] <hajour> yes i noticed that :)
[22:26] <hajour> we got the maker from simons listen in the team now to. :D


[05:14] <suihkulokki> awafaa: pretty much
[11:13] <awafaa> suihkulokki: thanks for the confirmation, so in your view what langs are high/medium/low priority?
[11:16] <infinity> awafaa: c,c++,java/go,gchi,erlang,ocaml/everything-else, intentionally leaving out purely interpreted languages that seem to generally Just Work (perl, python, etc).
[11:16] <infinity> awafaa: And probably missing a lot of random favourites from others. :P
[11:17] <awafaa> infinity: who asked you?! :P
[11:17] <awafaa> infinity: i was thinking more of what's the priority for langs that need porting?
[11:17] <infinity> awafaa: I figured our relationship was intimate enough that I could interject.  I have photos to prove it.
[11:17] <awafaa> infinity: you seen my outfit for the next connect?
[11:17] <infinity> awafaa: I'm not sure I want to...
[11:18] <infinity> awafaa: So, with a Canonical hat on, I'd say golang would be a high priority, taking that hat off, a proper ghci port would make a lot of nerds happy.
[11:18] <awafaa> infinity: guess what? you're going to https://plus.google.com/u/0/103092666279088875227/posts/aCtNPvQdHt1
[11:18] <infinity> awafaa: a native erlang port wouldn't go amiss, but I've also not (yet) heard people complaining about the performance impact of not having it.
[11:19] <infinity> awafaa: Dude, if your junk can maintain that contraption in place through an entire evening, more power to you.
[11:19] <awafaa> infinity: so far the only high priority one i have is go
[11:21] <infinity> awafaa: There are also stragglers, like fpc, that don't have a ton of users but would probably also take someone with the right intersection of skills (pascal and ARM, in fpc's case) an afternoon to fix.
[11:22] <infinity> awafaa: So, not a priority at all, but perhaps a fun project for someone.
[11:22] <suihkulokki> awafaa: my personal opinion is that it's quite low - but it would be still good to have someone assigned to working on porting/optimizing more esoteric languages
[11:23] <infinity> awafaa: Oh, and v8/node!  I understand there's an AArch64 port sitting on tip/trunk/head/whatever somewhere, but that's of little use while distros are still shipping an old stable libv8 and node to match.
[11:23] <awafaa> yeah, problem is getting resources to assign to do the work - I have very little to play with so I have to be very picky with what I put it on
[11:24] <awafaa> infinity: you need to take that up with joyent
[11:24] <suihkulokki> chasing the long tail and all - it should be made sure at least the languages work so nobody doesn't skip buying and armv8 server because they happen to have a legacy freepascal app as part of their system
[11:24] <infinity> suihkulokki: I doubt anyone would make a purchasing decision based on pascal, to be fair.
[11:24] <infinity> But nodejs, definitely.  And saying "there will be a new upstream release some day with support" doesn't cut it.
[11:25] <awafaa> suihkulokki: I agree, but I have to prioritise - I have the list of things that need work, I just need to prioritise it
[11:25] <infinity> awafaa: What does joyent have to do with it?
[11:27] <awafaa> infinity: they have an exceptional amount of say in node - they just canned the CLA, but still have a lot to say
[11:27] <infinity> awafaa: "porting" nodejs to a new arch is trivial.  libv8, on the other hand, is painful.  And last time I asked about backporting aarch64 support to libv8-3.14 (ie: the version most everyone ships), I was told it was "too much effort", and thus no one cared.  Which seems like a pretty lousy thing to tell potential customers. :P
[11:29] <infinity> And sure, some day there will be a node/v8 combo based on 3.20 or 3.22 or something, but that doesn't help me today.
[11:30] <suihkulokki> it's in node.js master - * v8: upgrade to <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:31] <infinity> suihkulokki: So, maybe I'll see that release before 16.04 ... I'd still love to see a backport to 3.14 for 14.04
[11:32] <infinity> But, *shrug*...
[11:33] <suihkulokki> they don't seem to have release schedule
[11:33] <infinity> Anyhow, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.  Just a bit disappointing.
[11:34] <suihkulokki> oddly I'd assume something as hipster and trendy as node being released monthly or so
[11:34] <infinity> They don't do the hipster release thing.
[11:34] <infinity> They also maintain stable branches for effin' ever.
[11:34] <infinity> Which I appreciate, as a stuffy conservative engineer.
[11:35] <infinity> But their reluctance to cut a new stable out of master is also irksome. :P
[11:37] <suihkulokki> I think theyll still manage to release faster than awafaa is able to find someone to do the backport of v8 :F
[11:38] <awafaa> almost definitely :/
[11:40] <infinity> Perhaps a fair point.
[11:41] <infinity> awafaa: So, discounting the node/v8 argument, and understanding that you already have people prioritising golang (or, you might do), I'd say that ghci is pretty widely-used and often-ignored.
[11:42] <hrw> infinity: ocaml is ported
[11:43] <awafaa> infinity: i've been trying to work out what actually uses ghci? and when yoiu guys were porting ghc, why do a half arsed effort? :P
[11:43] <infinity> hrw: I know, I was listing priorities period, before he narrowed it to discussing unported things. :P
[11:43] <hrw> ok
[11:43] <infinity> awafaa: Colin's GHC port isn't native, it's more just a dirty hack.
[11:43] <infinity> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2014/04/15
[11:44] <awafaa> ah, that's not what all the noise said - thanks for the clarification
[11:48] <suihkulokki> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Platforms