[05:35] <xu-irc40w> Question: for xubuntu, is it better to go with latest release 23.04, wait for 23.11 or use 22.04
[05:35] <xu-irc40w> i'm gamer
[05:36] <xu-irc40w> i'm on windows 11 rn
[05:37] <diogenes_Vx15> xu-irc40w, depending how new is your HW.
[05:38] <xu-irc40w> its from year 2016
[05:38] <xu-irc40w> but top of that year
[05:38] <xu-irc40w> i think i have many good thing
[05:41] <diogenes_Vx15> xu-irc40w, if you don't mind upgrading every 6 months then go with 23.04.
[21:12] <PeGaSuS> tumbler just crashed and asked to send a report. I did. what's the next step?


[07:19] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world!
[08:01] <jwd> morning
[10:53] <dakj> jamespage: hi, I remade all the lab, all nodes have the clock like host. The issue is always present on Nova-Cloud-Controller and Ceph-Mon
[12:36] <dakj> Anyone has a solution about that issue (https://askubuntu.com/questions/913007/issue-with-nova-cloud-controller-and-ceph-mon-with-openstack-base-bundle)?
[13:37] <dakj> Anyone can help me to resolve the issue? thanks
[13:42] <icey> dakj it looks like your ceph-osd charm doesn't have any block devices configured with `osd-devices`
[13:46] <dakj> Icey: if you have a look on its juju status there ceph-mon/11 is in active status, ceph-mon/9 is in blocked and ceph-mon/10 is in maintenance.
[13:47] <icey> dakj: can you paste the `juju status` into paste.ubuntu.com
[13:48] <icey> dakj: https://i.stack.imgur.com/5fkrF.png looks like it's clustered
[13:48] <dakj> icey: here is it (https://paste.ubuntu.com/24587013/)
[13:49] <icey> right dakj, the ceph-mons are (Unit is ready and clustered) and the OSDs are (No block devices detected using current configuration)
[13:49] <icey> you have to configure block devices for the OSD charms (and Ceph) to provide block storage to the cloud
[13:49] <jamespage> dakj: still wedged on that second unit right?
[13:49] <jamespage> odd
[13:49]  * jamespage ponders whether its a network mtu mismatch of some description
[13:50] <dakj> Jamespage: yes
[13:50] <jamespage> dakj: might be worth a check
[13:50] <dakj> icey: how do I can that after deploy the bundle?
[13:50] <jamespage> dakj: 99% of odd problems turn out to be some sort of network misconfig in my experience
[13:50] <jamespage> dakj: I'd use iperf
[13:51] <jamespage> and test the performance between the lxd container with the problem ceph-mon
[13:51] <jamespage> so say from ceph-mon/10 -> ceph-mon/9 and from ceph-mon/11 -> ceph-mon/9
[13:51] <jamespage> there is a flag you can use to display the actual MTU
[13:52] <icey> dakj: something like : `juju config ceph-osd osd-devices=/dev/sdb` where /dev/sdb is a space separated list of block devices or directories
[13:53] <dakj> Icey: I've to run that before to launch the deploy of Openstack Base via juju?
[13:53] <icey> dakj: if you want to set OSD devices up before deploy, you would want to put them into the bundle, that command is something you can run to add devices after deploying
[13:55] <admcleod> jamespage: theres something else that might be useful...
[13:56] <jamespage> admcleod: suggest away
[13:56] <dakj> icey: the command has to be put in ceph-mon application?
[13:56] <admcleod> oh no, nvm, wrong idea. gotta run to ameeting
[13:56] <icey> dakj: you would run that command from your juju client
[13:57] <dakj> Icey: ok, Let me try that, I'll inform you about the result soon.
[14:28] <dakj> icey: it gives me this error "ERROR application "ceph-osd" not found (not found)"
[14:29] <icey> dakj: and you ran that on the same machine that you have been running juju status on? I just deployed ceph-osd and ran that command, and I can confirm that it works
[14:29] <dakj> Icey: yes
[14:33] <dakj> Icey: wait, I've 4 virtual node used for deploying Openstack and another one for Juju. On this last one I've to launch the deploy first ceph-osd? And then run via Juju guy Openstack base. Is it right?
[14:34] <icey> I don't understand what you're asking dakj, but you should be configuring the ceph-osd application from the same client where you deployed the openstack-base bundle
[14:35] <dakj> icey: sorry. I try to explain that
[14:37] <dakj> Icey: I've 1VM used for MAAS, 1VM used for JUJU Gui and 4VM used for OPENSTACK. I tryed to deploy Openstack Base bundle via JUJU Gui. The command you suggested me where I've to run?
[14:38] <icey> from what machine did you run `juju bootstrap`
[14:38] <icey> alternately, you could change that configuration value from within the juju gui
[14:39] <dakj> icey: on MAAS used this command "juju bootstrap maaslab maaslab-controller --to juju.maas"
[14:39] <icey> ok, so either you should run that command on that MAAS node, or you should update the configuration through the GUI
[14:41] <dakj> Perfect, on that MAAS node I obtained this error https://paste.ubuntu.com/24587244/
[14:42] <icey> dakj, then you did not run `juju bootstrap...` on that MAAS node
[14:43] <icey> dakj, can you try to change the osd-devices configuration option from within the Juju GUI for the cpeh-osd application instead
[14:45] <dakj> Ice: in ceph-osd is already /dev/sdb.
[14:48] <icey> dakj: the value /dev/sdb is a default, you need to configure it to match your disk setup
[14:50] <dakj> Ice: this the a node dedicated to Openstack on MAAS https://pasteboard.co/706aKSJHl.png
[14:50] <icey> dakj: it can be a space separated list of either disks or directories
[14:51] <icey> dakj: dakj according to your bundle, machines 12,13, and 14 are the machines with ceph-osd on them, what disks do those machines have available?
[14:56] <dakj> Ice: I've to run the commit on Juju to see that because I cleaned all to re-run that from begin.
[14:59] <dakj> icey: I've started that, when it'll finished I'll see what you asked me
[15:01] <icey> dakj: I'm about to End of Day but there are other people around who can help with questions :)
[15:04] <dakj> Ice: thanks a lot for your support. Have a nice day, see you soon.
[15:27] <dakj> icey: now on ceph-devices there is /dev/vdb
[15:28] <icey> does /dev/vdb exist on the ceph-osd nodes dakj ?
[15:31] <icey> dakj I'm EOD but cholcombe can probably help with ceph questions
[15:31] <cholcombe> dakj: o/
[15:32] <dakj> Icey: here is th fdisk https://paste.ubuntu.com/24587473/
[15:33] <cholcombe> dakj: so they all have sdb 400GB on them.
[15:36] <dakj> Cholcombe: yes
[15:36] <dakj> icey: thanks a lot
[15:38] <dakj> Cholcombe: on ceph-osd is present /dev/vdb
[15:39] <dakj> Cholcombe: I'm EOD, can we meet tomorrow to see how to resolve my issue?
[15:39] <cholcombe> dakj: sure
[15:41] <dakj> Cholcombe: thanks have a nice day and see you tomorrow with my lab...... Are you present in the morning or evening?
[15:42] <cholcombe> dakj: i'm on pacific west coast time
[15:45] <dakj> Cholcombe: I'm in Europe time :-) see you!!!
[15:51] <bdx> @stokachu
[15:52] <rahworkx> hello all, can someone point me in the direction of how to uninstall "apt-get install conjure-up" entirely so I can use snap to install successfully?
[15:58] <bdx> http://installion.co.uk/ubuntu/yakkety/universe/c/conjure-up/uninstall/index.html
[15:58] <bdx> someone needs to take care of that bad boy
[18:09] <rick_h> SimonKLB: ping
[18:58] <Budgie^Smore> woot! almost time for a final in person interview round!
[19:14] <lazyPower> Budgie^Smore: good luck mate
[19:15] <Budgie^Smore> got 3 in person final rounds this week! this job hunting is a full time thing!
[19:16] <Budgie^Smore> oh and for anyone interested, I have been told by recruiters that there are more positions in the area than we have good people to fill them!
[19:26] <rahworkx> hello all, when deploying cdk with conjure-up in a local bare metal server the ectd nodes are failing with "Missing relation to certificate authority."Are there any suggestions of a fix for this?
[19:27] <stokachu_> rahworkx: easyrsa should be deployed and active
[19:27] <rahworkx> stokachu_: it is deployed with msg "Certificate Authority ready."
[19:28] <stokachu_> rahworkx: whats output of `juju status --format yaml`
[19:29] <rahworkx> stokachu_: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24588600/
[19:30] <stokachu_> rahworkx: how long has it been blocked for?
[19:31] <stokachu_> maybe lazyPower has an idea ^
[19:32] <lazyPower> rahworkx: interesting, i dont see the etcd->easyrsa relation declared in that status yaml. try 'juju add-relation etcd easyrsa' and see if that resolves the status message
[19:32] <rahworkx> stokachu_: hmm, I was waiting untill each app finished installing before selecting the next.. I kicked off the last app "workers" and status is "started" now.
[19:34] <stokachu_> rahworkx: yea relations dont get set until after everything is deployed
[19:34] <stokachu_> b/c there could be applications the relations require that are not yet known to juju
[19:35] <rahworkx> lazypower: Previously when selecting all apps to deploy at once, it was failing with a "failed to find hook msg" this is probably hardware related. "older server"
[19:35] <lazyPower> failed to find hook?
[19:35] <lazyPower> thats... not expected at all
[19:35] <stokachu_> yea that's a new one to me
[19:35] <lazyPower> the hooks are charm components, the executeable events we invoke when things happen
[19:35] <lazyPower> like that relationship for example will trigger a certificates-relation-joined hook
[19:38] <rahworkx> my mistake.. may of seen that elsewhere..
[19:39] <lazyPower> rahworkx: there's a known deficiency right now where etcd isn't starting due to some changes in how snap presents version info in 'snap info etcd'
[19:40] <lazyPower> there's a PR landing and we'll have a fix out the door today, that might have been what you saw... if it was etcd that was the problem child
[19:44] <rahworkx> lazypower: this is the error I saw before.... https://paste.ubuntu.com/24588663/
[19:44] <lazyPower> rahworkx: yep thats the bug i was just referencing
[19:45] <lazyPower> that happened sometime between lastnight and today, it didn't seem to affect existing deployments, only new deployments.
[19:45] <rahworkx> ohh ok, makes sense
[19:51] <rahworkx> stokachu_: lazyPower: thanks for shedding some light on that...
[19:51] <lazyPower> np rahworkx - i'll ping you when the fix gets published in the bundles
[19:52] <lazyPower> we're working through some nuances with this breakage, and hae a functional fix but its still a bit brittle. Trying to make this more robust so you dont find this six months later.


[04:32] <Chat6834> Hey guys
[04:33] <mimcpher> Chat6834: Hello!
[15:44] <dscassel> CDs have shipped from the Netherlands!
[18:32] <mimcpher> CDs! Yay!
[18:42] <s-fox> hello starcraftman
[18:42] <s-fox> IRC bypass :D
[18:42]  * starcraftman waves
[18:42]  * starcraftman forgot
[18:43] <s-fox> you forgot to identify too, lol
[18:43] <starcraftman> s-fox: Naw, can't remember my dang password, it's not one of my usual. I have too many.
[18:43] <starcraftman> s-fox: will verify on my server machine later
[18:43] <s-fox> so, what is the french for "o rly"
[18:43] <s-fox> ;)
[18:44] <starcraftman> lol
[18:44] <s-fox> From what I read you said it wasn't french
[18:44]  * s-fox has been practising a lot
[18:45] <starcraftman> not really, in so far as o rly represents surprise in a sarcastic way I suppose it would be "Vraiment?"
[18:45] <starcraftman> though it somewhat lacks the absolute sarcastic undertones o rly has attained.
[18:47] <starcraftman> s-fox: not so exciting huh? So how ya been?
[18:47] <s-fox> Well, I turned down 2 job offers... crazy i know
[18:48] <starcraftman> s-fox: very. They weren't any good?
[18:48] <s-fox> I got offered a teaching position at a school in Korea. They offered me the job, but after I spoke with some of the other foreign language teachers they advised a stay away from the school. They are actively looking elsewhere too and just seeing out their contracts
[18:49] <s-fox> Main issue seems to be concerned with honouring the salary agreement.
[18:50] <s-fox> The other job offer, I had 2 interviews and a test but I got "bad vibes" from the people I'd be working with. A lot of negative atmosphere going on.
[18:50] <s-fox> ^ starcraftman
[18:51] <starcraftman> s-fox: I see, didn't seem trustworthy? Too competetive?
[18:52] <s-fox> No, more like doom and gloom
[18:53] <starcraftman> ah, definitely not good. Don't wanna be depressed for 8 hours a day or more.
[18:53] <s-fox> mauvaise humeur ?
[18:55] <starcraftman> s-fox: Oui, c'est plutot ce que tu veux dire.
[18:56] <starcraftman> s-fox: You still trying to emigrate to Canada?
[18:57] <s-fox> starcraftman,  emigrate to anywhere but here would apply ;)
[18:58] <starcraftman> s-fox: right right, you emigrate from, immigrate to.
[18:58] <s-fox> Not a bad stab at french. It was a guess ;) lol
[18:59] <s-fox> But yes, I need to get away
[18:59] <s-fox> The British are driving me insane
[18:59] <starcraftman> My dad always said it was the water...
[19:00] <s-fox> I was back in Paris earlier this year for a long weekend. It was a good escape
[19:00] <starcraftman> s-fox: something in particular turning you off? Or just want a change?
[19:01] <s-fox> I am not sure, perhaps the mannerisms ?
[19:08] <starcraftman> I see, well it can be the case. Debugging a little bit of android code in btw, why I'm a little quiet.
[19:11] <s-fox> Have fun, I am dooing some work with python
[19:11] <starcraftman> Ah ok, we'll I'll try to be on later if your still up :)
[19:11] <starcraftman> s-fox: adios seniorita fox!
[19:12] <s-fox> He says goodbye in Spanish. Haha


[05:35] <mlankhorst> morning
[06:31] <mlankhorst> RAOF: could you upload libdrm to debian experimental and then sync to ubuntu?
[06:33] <RAOF> No, because I can't upload to Debian; tjaalton could though :)
[06:33] <mlankhorst> tjaalton?
[06:34] <RAOF> Who happens to be on holiday
[06:34] <mlankhorst> aww
[06:34]  * RAOF should really become a DD
[06:34] <mlankhorst> same
[06:34] <RAOF> I *could* take what's in git/debian-experimental and upload it to Ubuntu, though :)
[06:34] <mlankhorst> yeah but was hoping to have the automagic sync magic do its job after that
[06:35] <RAOF> Well, Debian Import Freeze is in effect, so the autosync is no longer going to be running.
[06:35] <mlankhorst> ah sure then just upload to ubuntu
[06:35] <RAOF> We'll need to manually sync anyway :)
[06:36] <mlankhorst> 2.4.37 has both libdrm_nouveau's and with a small patch mesa will build again
[06:36] <RAOF> *and* new mesa will build!
[06:37] <mlankhorst> quantally
[06:38] <mlankhorst> (and probably a 2 liner patch would allow old xf86-video-nouveau to build)
[06:56] <mlankhorst> RAOF: ok pushed changes for mesa.git too
[07:00] <RAOF> Does xf86-video-nouveau also build correctly? Your changes wrangle the old libdrm into the source tree, right?
[07:01] <mlankhorst> yeah the trick is that only old libdrm_nouveau dependent packages require changes
[07:01] <mlankhorst> and that I didn't change soname
[07:01] <mlankhorst> libdrm_nouveau1.so links to libdrm_nouveau.so.1
[07:02] <mlankhorst> libdrm_nouveau.so to libdrm_nouveau.so.2
[07:02] <mlankhorst> same for libdrm_nouveau(1,).pc
[07:02] <RAOF> So our existing xf86-video-nouveau package will build happily against libdrm_nouveau.so.2, right?
[07:02] <mlankhorst> yep
[07:03] <mlankhorst> oh that would require an upload to kill the drm patch
[07:03] <mlankhorst> you're right
[07:03] <RAOF> Heh
[07:03] <RAOF> But it's not going to break at runtime; the existing package will *work*, it's just that rebuilds will require a little finangling.
[07:04] <mlankhorst> yeah
[07:04] <mlankhorst> that was my whole goal
[07:05] <mlankhorst> I wanted to be able to compile upstream without any changes to source to make it easier for users
[07:06] <RAOF> A noble goal.
[07:06] <mlankhorst> fedora renamed libdrm_nouveau.so.2 to libdrm_nouveau2.so.2 but since upstream didn't recognise it and no headers conflict it was ok not to do that
[07:07] <RAOF> I wonder why they did that?
[07:07] <mlankhorst> was done by their nouveau maintainer, probably less concern about compatability :)
[07:08] <RAOF> Yeah :)
[09:04] <mlankhorst> time to figure out git-send-email from canonical address and submit for review
[10:58] <mlankhorst> and submitted for review :)
[11:57] <mlankhorst> RAOF: can you look at the patches I posted on ml?
[11:58] <mlankhorst> lkml or dri-devel
[12:01] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I'll take a look at them tomorrow
[13:54] <mlankhorst> oh great x1.13 has all the prime bits :)
[16:26] <mlankhorst> hey bryceh
[16:33] <bryceh> hey
[16:58]  * bryceh hehs the ubuntu wayland brouhaha on slashdot
[18:32] <mlankhorst> bryceh: you know I should propose something outrageous but with enough insanity that it sounds plausible next uds
[18:32] <mlankhorst> and then laugh at the press it generates
[18:53] <bryceh> mlankhorst, totally.  I scheme up ideas all the time :-)
[18:54] <bryceh> mlankhorst, only problem is that then when you *don't* deliver the crazy thing, then they just gloat that you "failed"
[18:55] <mlankhorst> The only way the MS Surface will kill the iPad is if it drops on one!
[18:55] <mlankhorst> :D
[19:01] <mlankhorst> bryceh: and nah i don't get the blame then
[19:06] <seb128> bryceh, hey
[19:06] <seb128> bryceh, do you think that getting libxrandr-utils ready and porting the GNOME stuff this cycle seems realistic?
[19:07] <seb128> bryceh, I'm wondering if we should postpone the GNOME porting part, it seems like to me that if we get the lib ready this cycle it would already be good, then we can port next cycle?
[19:13] <bryceh> seb128, ok that sounds good
[21:42] <bryceh> if I have a package 1.0.2-0ubuntu2 in precise, and am SRUing a new upstream release 1.0.3, would the numbering for the precise-proposed upload be just 1.0.3-0ubuntu1 or should it be something like 1.0.2*really1.0.3-ubuntu-1?
[21:46] <maxb> Well, no 'really' - that's only when the upstream version needs to be reduced
[21:47] <maxb> SRUs don't generally get new upstream releases at all, so I'm not sure there's a solid convention
[21:48] <maxb> 1.0.3-0ubuntu1 would collide with the normal versioning of an upload to quantal
[21:49] <maxb> So my guess would be something like 1.0.3-0ubuntu0.1 or -0ubuntu0precise1
[21:50] <seb128> bryceh, what maxb wrote
[21:50] <seb128> usually people use 1.0.3-0ubuntu0.1
[21:53] <bryceh> seb128, great thanks
[21:53] <bryceh> maxb, right, thanks.


[02:48] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:23] <Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
[03:24] <sbalneav> Hello Burgundavia
[03:25] <cafuego> ANyone with netboot iMac experience? I have a series of G3 imacs here that are refusing to boot the kernel tftpd is sending them. (Slightly newer G3 imacs are working fine).
[03:29] <spacey> moi
[03:29] <spacey> i wish i could go to bed
[03:30] <Burgundavia> spacey: why can you not?
[03:47] <spacey> finally
[03:47] <spacey> we'll
[03:47] <spacey> we were busy
[03:48] <spacey> with it work @ night
[03:48] <spacey> not so funny
[03:48] <spacey> good night
[04:43] <stormbuntu> anyone here use ekiga?
[04:44] <Burgundavia> stormbuntu: I have
[04:44] <stormbuntu> do you still use it?
[04:44] <Burgundavia> not currenlty mostly because i have no voip needs
[04:44] <stormbuntu> gotcha
[04:44] <stormbuntu> ty for the honesty
[04:49] <sbalneav> 1
[04:52] <cafuego> Hrm.
[04:52] <cafuego> is there anything special about PPC Edubuntu kernels compared to standard Edubuntu ones?
[04:52] <Burgundavia> they work on PPC?
[04:56] <cafuego> ... without doing a new server install on PPC, that is.
[08:35] <RichEd> morning
[08:35] <Burgundavia> morning RichEd
[08:36] <RichEd> how's things your side ?
[08:36] <Burgundavia> quite nice
[08:36] <RichEd> good :)
[08:37] <Burgundavia> planning big changes
[08:38] <RichEd> life changes or a within existing work change
[08:38] <RichEd> ?
[08:39] <Burgundavia> life, moving, work, everything
[08:43] <RichEd> well best wishes then :)
[08:43] <Burgundavia> thanks
[08:43] <Burgundavia> one thing that is not going to be changing is my work with ubuntu
[08:44] <highvoltage> morning RichEd and Burgs
[08:44] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
[08:44] <RichEd> hello highvoltage
[08:44] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: good to hear :)
[08:54] <highvoltage> ogra: just a reminder, I don't have the -users list password (and it seems that there is quite a bit of pending requests)
[08:55] <RichEd> highvoltage: got a minute for me to chat about wiki ?
[08:58] <highvoltage> yep
[08:59] <highvoltage> strange, Monday mornings are usually hectic, but everything is quite peaceful here this morning
[09:04] <RichEd> hi pygi
[09:04] <pygi> hey RichEd
[09:04] <RichEd> highvoltage: getting a coffee then -> window
[09:04] <highvoltage> pygi: my internet connection this weekend was nearly non-existant (disconnected every 30 seconds or so)
[09:05] <highvoltage> pygi: so I spent most of the time away from my computer
[09:05] <pygi> highvoltage, heh, don't worry ^_^
[09:05] <highvoltage> when to the launch of a local python users group instead :)
[09:05] <RichEd> pygi: are you around at about lunch time ? for a bit of a presentation chat ?
[09:05] <highvoltage> s/when/went/
[09:05] <pygi> RichEd, what do you  consider lunch time?
[09:06] <pygi> I have to go at 11:00 am, will be back, 13:00 PM
[09:08] <pygi> RichEd, that fine by you?
[09:08] <pygi> highvoltage, ^_^
[09:08] <pygi> RichEd, all other time I should be free I guess
[09:12] <RichEd> 13:00pm = let's reserve 15-20 mins around then : ??? UTC
[09:13] <pygi> RichEd, o, I forgot we go UTC :)
[09:13] <pygi> I won't be here from 9:00 AM to 11:00 AM UTC then :)
[09:13] <pygi> RichEd, yes, sure...13:00PM UTC is fine
[09:14] <RichEd> Done ... I'll find you here at that time pygi ... thanks
[09:15] <Burgundavia> hey pygi
[09:15] <pygi> hey Burgundavia, how are you?
[09:15] <cbx33> hi pygi
[09:15] <pygi> hi to you also cbx33 :)
[09:17] <Burgundavia> pygi: tired, about to go to sleep
[09:17] <pygi> Burgundavia, oh, oki, sleep tight then ^_^
[09:18] <Burgundavia> need to finish a few things first
[09:26] <RichEd> hi cbx33
[09:26] <RichEd> cbx33: willvdl is back in action today ... can we make a time to meet tomorrow for a 3 way education advocacy ?
[09:28] <cbx33> sure
[09:28] <cbx33> when?
[09:41] <RichEd> cbx33: When I see Will online today, we can confirm.  Around 12:00 UTC good for you ?
[09:45] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: someone on my local lug says he can see the entire subscribers list for ubuntu-news
[09:46] <highvoltage> could you check the settings?
[09:57] <cbx33> yeh sounds good
[10:11] <cbx33> yo jono
[10:11] <jono> hey
[10:38] <jsgotangco> hello everyone
[10:38] <highvoltage> hello jsgotangco
[10:39] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: jonathan!
[10:41] <pygi> jsgotangco, hey ho
[10:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: did you see that guy that added an external hard disk to his DS?
[10:41] <highvoltage> some people are just crazy :)
[10:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm no...i did run DS Linux before
[10:42] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: but then, the novelty wore off, it doesnt have much use, I just use the DS now for playing
[10:45] <highvoltage> :)
[10:46] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: its amazing how nintendo thinks out of the box with these devices that just demolishes the competition even if its not as powerful as the others available
[10:48] <jsgotangco> i actually brought the DS in paris, but i didnt have much time to play at all obviously
[11:04] <cbx33> someone said there was some kind of event in paris 10-18 of oct
[11:04] <cbx33> anyone know what iit is?
[11:05] <jsgotangco> really?
[11:05] <jsgotangco> paris is exepensiveeee
[11:05] <cbx33> spry not paris
[11:05] <cbx33> london
[11:06] <jsgotangco> its probably koke's blog entry
[11:06] <cbx33> yes
[11:06] <jsgotangco> i met him in sydney ;)
[11:06] <cbx33> do you know what the event is?
[11:07] <jsgotangco> no
[11:07] <jsgotangco> check his blog
[11:07] <cbx33> doesn't say
[11:07] <jsgotangco> cbx33: http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/european-conferences/
[11:08] <cbx33> aaahhhhhh
[11:08] <jsgotangco> databases
[11:09] <jsgotangco> RichEd: ping?
[11:09] <RichEd> jsgotangco: pong
[11:09] <jsgotangco> RichEd: would you be avaialble later?
[11:10] <jsgotangco> just a short 1 hour chat or less
[11:11] <jsgotangco> if not we could schedule it later
[11:11] <RichEd> jsgotangco: I'm trying to get my internal planning stuff out onto the Web / Wiki site to get things into a public space where activities can be tracked & shared.
[11:11] <jsgotangco> wednesday perhaps?
[11:11] <jsgotangco> because ill be out tomorrow, we have a benefit concert to attend
[11:11] <RichEd> jsgotangco: can we do a 5-10 mins head up now, and schedule a slot for wednesday
[11:12] <jsgotangco> ok we should do it now because im heading for the gym in 30 mins
[11:12] <RichEd> bang open a window, and give me a short intro ... it may help me slot stuff into planning
[12:59] <cbx33> RichEd: were you aiming for a meeting in an hour?
[01:00] <cbx33> can we make it an hour and a half?
[01:01] <RichEd> cbx33: Our plan was for tomorrow when willvdl is back. I'm meeting with pygi today.
[01:05] <cbx33> RichEd: oh sorry
[01:05] <RichEd> np
[01:06] <cbx33> I thought you meant today
[01:10] <ogra> Burgundavia, where is the note from DapperUpgradeNotes gone that points out that we dont encourage commandline upgrading over the update-manager variant ?
[01:10] <ogra> this redirect crap of the wiki docs eats important info ... :(
[01:10] <ogra> (and is totally annoying )
[01:13] <jsgotangco> we dont encourage commandline?
[01:14] <jsgotangco> that's definitely a bug considering we dont give users choice if that's the case ;)
[01:14] <ogra> the commandline apt-get dist-upgrade is a fallack and for servers
[01:14] <jsgotangco> yeah i was about to say "how about we server junkies"
[01:14] <jsgotangco> hehe
[01:15] <ogra> but the original document made very clear that the update.manager is the by far preferred method
[01:15] <jsgotangco> well we should eat our own dogfood
[01:15] <ogra> the original doc is gone and redirects me (with 2min delay) to a very common upgrade notres doc
[01:15] <ogra> the docs got unusable for me since the redirect ...
[01:15] <jsgotangco> tsk
[01:16] <jsgotangco> this wiki transition thing is either good or bad
[01:16] <ogra> most of them at least
[01:16] <ogra> it takes ages to redirect, i cant give out urls i (and everybody else) knew from the start etc
[01:16] <ogra> its the worst decision the doc team took imho
[01:17] <ogra> (and its not only me who is annoyed by it)
[01:17] <jsgotangco> i didnt get myself involved into this transition at all
[01:17] <jsgotangco> i thought it was disastrous
[01:17] <ogra> it is
[01:17] <jsgotangco> to say the least
[01:17] <ogra> i could live with delay and with non working urls ... but missing info isnt acceptable
[01:18] <ogra> especially for such important things like upgrades
[01:19] <ogra> grrr ....
[01:21] <jsgotangco> ogra: do you reckon its worth packaging these small edubuntu-specific documentation and make it on the default install
[01:42] <ogra> guys, i wil be travelling on tursday, but there is a knot3 planned ...
[01:42] <ogra> so i wont be able to do final testing ...
[01:43] <ogra> but the ltsp changes will require a lot tests ....
[01:43] <willvdl> hi all
[01:46] <RichEd> hi will
[01:46] <RichEd> how was the holiday / trip ?
[01:47] <rodarvus> ogra, I can do the testing for you
[01:47] <ogra> rodarvus, so you let your hair grow again ?
[01:47] <rodarvus> :)
[01:48] <ogra> rodarvus, welcome back btw
[01:48] <rodarvus> thanks :)
[01:48] <ogra> do you have thin client HW to test ?
[01:48] <rodarvus> feels good to be home again
[01:48] <rodarvus> no, can't I test with vmware?
[01:48] <ogra> the important parts are the ltsp additions this time
[01:48] <jsgotangco> sounder what the hell
[01:49] <ogra> like sound, local devices, swap ... and the default dhcpd setup
[01:49] <ogra> if you can do that with vmware its fine
[01:49] <RichEd> ogra: will and I need to build a LTSP test environment (1) for me to learn and (2) for HP both ideally this week
[01:49] <RichEd> if you give us a list, we can go through tests
[01:50] <ogra> RichEd, well, it might still be flaky... all features were rushed in last week ....
[01:50] <jsgotangco> RichEd: installing the LTSP environment isnt even that hard
[01:50] <jsgotangco> it just installs itself
[01:50] <ogra> not sure thats a good demo for HP :)
[01:50] <RichEd> jsgotangco: yep. but also so I can get to understand the k12lstp mail list problems :)
[01:50] <ogra> well, the testing i talk about is: put in an edubuntu CD, do the default install and boot a thin client ...
[01:50] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:51] <ogra> its *not*: set up an ltsp environment from the packages
[01:51] <RichEd> ogra: we can do the test of knot3 in our test setup
[01:51] <RichEd> (local) and install LTS for HP
[01:52] <ogra> what i need tested is if all the installer parts work properly
[01:52] <ogra> i think i can test on friday again (jammcq/sbalneav should have enough equipment to do the testing in detroit)
[01:52] <ogra> but Mithrandir insists on releasing on thursday ...
[01:53] <jsgotangco> i can do a test starting tomorrow
[01:53] <jsgotangco> but only for x86
[01:54] <rodarvus> hmm, also I only have i386
[01:54] <ogra> RichEd, ok
[01:54] <ogra> i'll write a knot3 testplan on the wiki
[01:54] <ogra> if only my wlan wouldnt die all 2mins
[01:55] <rodarvus> ogra, I think vmware has pxe support, but I can't assure you 100% of this
[02:03] <ogra> rodarvus, its not about PXE ... rather the device emulations et
[02:03] <ogra> c
[02:04] <ogra> GAH !
[02:05] <ogra> *hung
[02:05] <ogra> grmbl ...
[02:05] <ogra> not my day today
[02:07] <Petaris> ogra: haha, I've done that before
[02:07] <Petaris> Then I kick myself for not following basic procedure and checking basic hardware connections first
[02:08] <ogra> right
[02:09] <Petaris> Theres been a few times where I have replaced a hdd then booted the machine and thought "what the hell" when it wasn't found, started debugging then realised I forgot to plugin the power to the drive
[02:09] <ogra> if my wlan would at least stay up for more than 3 mins i could actually do some work ...
[02:09] <ogra> seems i'm cursed today
[02:09] <Petaris> just run a cable to the switch?
[02:09] <Petaris> unless you aren't near one
[02:16] <cbx33> afternoon all
[02:16] <cbx33> hi ogra
[02:16] <Petaris> morning cbx33
[02:16] <cbx33> hi Petaris
[02:17] <ogra> i have a wireless connection between the two floors ... my AP isnt movable and there is a diagonal heating pipe in the floor of my office that shields it
[02:17] <Petaris> ahh
 pitti, i assume you didnt get a chance to look over the SCP MIR ?
 <pitti> sorry, not at Friday; I plan to do another review session today
[02:17] <ogra> cbx33, ^^^^
[02:22] <cbx33> ogra: cool
[02:22] <cbx33> lets hope it gets through
[02:23] <cbx33> ogra: I have decisions on artwork, but onyl had low ressers with me
[02:24] <cbx33> will build pacakge when I get home
[02:27] <ogra> i'm fine with doing the package ... just send me the hires versions ...
[02:27] <ogra> btw, could you make the black fonts/drawings a bit more transparent ?
[02:27] <ogra> (on the wallpaper)
[02:28] <ogra> it gets a bit distracting with a lot of icons and text on the desktop ...
[02:28] <ogra> or color it in a slight brown instead of black ...
[02:31] <cbx33> most of them are brown
[02:31] <cbx33> but I will surely sort it out
[02:31] <cbx33> Hi Seveas, did those images look ok?
[02:33] <Seveas> cbx33, didn't have time for it yet, sorry
[02:35] <cbx33> oh ok np
[02:36] <ogra> cbx33, as i told you i need to rework edubuntu-artwork first anyway ...
[02:37] <cbx33> ogra: ok sure, I'll send them to you tonight
[02:37] <cbx33> tar ok?
[02:37] <ogra> Seveas, do you have a table or something for the hex values for the progressbar colors ?
[02:37] <ogra> sure, tar is fine
[02:46] <jsgotangco> have to leave early
[02:46] <jsgotangco> long day tomorrow
[02:46] <jsgotangco> later guys
[03:04] <RichEd> hi pygi ... give me a few minutes
[03:05] <pygi> RichEd, sure
[03:13] <RichEd> ping pygi: window ->
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:58] <pygi> howdy bddebian
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya pygi
[03:59] <bddebian> I haven't found anyone to help me yet :-(
[03:59] <pygi> bddebian, don't worry, as I said
[04:17] <RichEd> ping pygi
[04:18] <pygi> pong RichEd
[04:18] <RichEd> back to window ->
[04:38] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:39] <bddebian> Hello sbalneav
[04:39] <ogra> hey sbalneav
[04:40] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey dude, there's a bit of a hiccough in lbmount, if someone unplugs their terminal, with mounted drives, you get a lbmount you can't unmount because the ltspfs mount goes away, and lbmount checks to see if there's a ltspfs mount underneath the bind.
[04:40] <sbalneav> So, I'll look at that today, and send you an update
[04:40] <ogra> great
[04:41] <sbalneav> I was playing around with the lltsp in edgy all weekend,things are looking nice.
[04:41] <ogra> i already noticed that, but found it rather minor ... you can solve it by simply un/replugging in the new session
[04:41] <sbalneav> right, but we should do "the right thing" anyway :)
[04:41] <sbalneav> AWESOME
[04:42] <ogra> yeah
[04:42] <sbalneav> so, lemme run down the checklist:
[04:42] <sbalneav> localdevs: check
[04:42] <sbalneav> SCP, check
[04:42] <sbalneav> nbd swap check
[04:42] <sbalneav> Dynamic menus: thats in universe, right?
[04:44] <sbalneav> And I beleive you had the dhcp-autoconfig thing figured out, yes?
[04:46] <ogra> yes
[04:46] <ogra> but untested yet
[04:46] <ogra> sadly i'll travel on thursday so getting knot3 tested properly on all arches will be difficult :/
[04:48] <sbalneav> Well, I've been testing on i386
[04:48] <ogra> full installs ?
[04:48] <sbalneav> Yep!
[04:48] <ogra> wow
[04:48] <sbalneav> I set up an apt-cacher at home
[04:48] <ogra> ok, i think i should have some premature artwork in tonight, so from tomorrow on the CD should be near the final state ...
[04:48] <sbalneav> So doing the install and the upgrade only takes about 1.5 hours.
[04:49] <ogra> modulo bugfixes and artwork updates
[04:49] <ogra> install and upgrade ?
[04:49] <sbalneav> Yep
[04:49] <ogra> what kind of upgrades ?
[04:49] <ogra> oh, you used knot 2 i guess :)
[04:49] <sbalneav> apt-get upgrade
[04:49] <ogra> thats ooooold
[04:50] <sbalneav> That's so 2 weeks ago :)
[04:50] <ogra> yeah
[04:50] <ogra> missing all the features
[04:50] <sbalneav> is the next knot out?
[04:50] <sbalneav> I'll download it tonight.
[04:50] <sbalneav> I'm running edgy ubuntu on my Laptop now!
[04:50] <ogra> no, as i said its planned for thursday
[04:50] <sbalneav> sorry, edgy EDUbuntu, I mean.
[04:51] <ogra> so i'll have to try to get it going fine until wednesday
[04:51] <ogra> and can only pry it doesnt break on thursday
[04:51] <ogra> *pray
[04:51] <ogra> else we'll have a broken knot release
[04:51] <sbalneav> :(
[04:51] <sbalneav> Things have looked good so far.
[04:52] <ogra> you havent tested all the changes yet
[04:52] <sbalneav> Apart from the bump we had with xkeyboard-config.
[04:52] <ogra> specifically the dhcpd.conf stuff makes me very edgy
[04:52] <sbalneav> As soon as I get a release in my hands, I'll check that.
[04:53] <sbalneav> I've got a box with 2 nicks on it that will do just fine for the test
[04:53] <ogra> yep
[04:53] <ogra> any recent laptop should be fine for that ...
[04:53] <ogra> assuming the wlan card works
[04:54] <ogra> i do all my testing stuff on my laptops ...
[04:54] <ogra> but i wont bring my ibook to the sprint ... since i fear US customs a bit i'll bring only whats necessary
[04:55] <sbalneav> What laptop are you bringing then?  The amd64?
[04:55] <ogra> yep
[04:55] <ogra> it has a working builtin cdwriter and a spare partition for install tests
[04:55] <sbalneav> sexy
[04:55] <ogra> so i can at least test two arches
[04:56] <ogra> i still have no idea what to do about upgrades ...
[04:56] <ogra> the new ltsp-update-kernels code needs an pdated chroot ...
[04:56] <ogra> and the location of the kernel images changed
[04:57] <ogra> (tftp location)
[04:57] <sbalneav> Oh? Not in /var/lib/tftpboot/<arch> anymore?
[04:57] <Petaris> has anyone tried linneighborhood on an amd64 dapper server?
[04:57] <ogra> it was never in <arch> thats new
[04:57] <Petaris> the package seems to have no binary
[04:57] <ogra> it was always /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
[04:57] <sbalneav> ahh
[04:58] <sbalneav> ok
[04:58] <ogra> and now we have /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch>
[04:58] <ogra> i wonder how evil it is to just have a postinst script in the ltsp-server package that moves it around ...
[04:58] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm very lagged so apologies if my responses are slow
[04:58] <highvoltage> ogra: so knot3 release is thursday?
[04:58] <ogra> yes, sadly
[04:59] <highvoltage> when does testing neet to take place? before that, or on release of it?
[04:59] <ogra> both
[04:59] <ogra> but i can test until wed.
[04:59] <jammcq_laptop> g'morning
[04:59] <highvoltage> how should knot3 be tested?
[05:00] <ogra> i'll fly to jammcqs ltsp hacker barbecue on thusday very early in the morning
[05:00] <highvoltage> (before thursday)
[05:00] <Petaris> morning jammcq_laptop
[05:00] <highvoltage> with daily builds or are there some kind of release candidate?
[05:00] <ogra> highvoltage, the default install must finish without errors ...
[05:00] <jammcq_laptop> highvoltage: hey jonathon
[05:00] <highvoltage> hey jammcq_laptop !
[05:00] <ogra> theoretically ltsp should be up and running witrh all features after first reboot
[05:00] <ogra> note that we default to having two NICs from now on
[05:01] <highvoltage> ogra: I can test on wednesday morning
[05:01] <sbalneav> Hey jammcq!
[05:01] <highvoltage> i will rsync during tomorrow
[05:01] <jammcq_laptop> I heard this is where all the cool people hang out
[05:01] <ogra> the out of the box code wont work if you have only one ...
[05:01] <highvoltage> I'll e-mail everyone on the edubuntu-testers team and get them to test with release on thursday
[05:01] <ogra> jammcq_laptop, now it is, yes ;)
[05:03] <Petaris> ogra: are local apps still on the back burner for now?
[05:03] <ogra> yes, thats for edgy+1
[05:03] <Petaris> ok
[05:03] <ogra> local apps kind of need local usersneed
[05:03] <ogra> -need
[05:04] <Petaris> ahh
[05:04] <ogra> sbalneav, did you see that i merged vagrants workstation code ? we could theoretically build fat clients :)
[05:05] <Petaris> What about integration with MS ActiveDir, Novell eDirectory?
[05:05] <pygi> ogra, we  have fat and thin clients...when can we have moderate clients? ^_^
[05:05] <ogra> pygi, if we went through the extremes ;)
[05:05] <Petaris> man, I just want an average sized client
[05:05] <Petaris> ;p
[05:06] <pygi> Petaris, indeed, moderate one :P
[05:06] <ogra> Petaris, complain to ajmitch ... he had a SoC project for network auth that should solve it but didnt finish
[05:06] <pygi> ogra, ah, he didnt finish his SoC project?
[05:07] <sbalneav> ogra: Yes, saw vagrant talking about it in #ltsp
[05:08] <Petaris> ogra: I have AD auth working now through sadms
[05:08] <Petaris> and Novell has instructions on their cool solutions pages
[05:08] <Petaris> but having it as part of edubuntu would be a big plush
[05:09] <Petaris> If I see ajmitch I will see how his progress is coming
[05:10] <pygi> Petaris, that would mean he hasnt finished his SoC project? :-/
[05:11] <Petaris> pygi: not to my knowlage at least
[05:11] <pygi> bleh!
[05:12] <Petaris> sadms worked pretty well
[05:12] <Petaris> but its only for connecting to AD I believe
[05:12] <Petaris> http://sadms.sourceforge.net/
[05:12] <ogra> well, its not even in the archive ... :/
[05:14] <Petaris> ogra: its hard for me to get a hold of him as I am only here when he is asleep
[05:14] <Petaris> and vise/versa
[05:14] <ogra> yep
[05:15] <ogra> pygi, he said its there but to rought edged for general use ...
[05:16] <pygi> ogra, Mithrandir let him pass the final eval?
[05:16] <ogra> no idea
[05:16] <ogra> i dont check others SoC projects
[05:16] <pygi> ah, ok
[05:16] <Petaris> the only thing that would be nice to add to sadms is the ability to mount AD homedirs (from the users profile)
[05:17] <Petaris> it already supports basic homedir mounting via pam_mount
[05:17] <ogra> well, as i siad, first a motu would need to package it
[05:17] <ogra> there is no package in the archive
[06:01] <darth_gimp> Gretting...
[06:01] <darth_gimp> looking through the screen shots, I noticed a wallpaper of the Earth looking like it was drawn in chalk on a chalkboard.
[06:02] <darth_gimp> Where can I get a copy of that without installing Edubuntu on top of my Ubuntu?
[06:04] <darth_gimp> Let me see if this makes more sense...  (been up all night) How can I get a copy of an Edubuntu wallpaper without installing the package?
[06:04] <ogra> which one ?
[06:04] <darth_gimp> http://www.edubuntu.org/images/tour/desktop.png
[06:05] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper_art/chalkboard.png
[06:06] <darth_gimp> ogra, you are the bestest!
[06:06] <darth_gimp> Ogra.. like the seer? The one with the shards and the planets?
[06:09] <darth_gimp> Or did she spell it Augra... (From the Dark Crystal movie)
[06:09] <ogra> ah, that one ...
[06:09] <ogra> no, ogra is just an abbreviation of my name ;)
[06:09] <ogra> (yes i know that sboring ;) )
[06:09] <darth_gimp> lol.. you were probably thinking I was off my rocker there ...
[06:09] <darth_gimp> XD
[06:10] <darth_gimp> Would you say Edubuntu is better for my 11 year-old daughter than Ubuntu?
[06:11] <ogra> it has more games ;)
[06:12] <darth_gimp> lol
[06:12] <darth_gimp> I installed the tron game in Ubuntu... Armagetron....
[06:12] <ogra> apart from that, younger artwork and ltsp in teh server variant (default install) its similar in its app selection ...
[06:12] <darth_gimp> but there is a newer version and I cannot compile it for the life of me... ahh well
[06:13] <darth_gimp> I like the Educa
[06:13] <darth_gimp> that's pretty cool
[06:16] <darth_gimp> ok gotta run again...
[06:16] <ogra> ciao :)
[06:16] <darth_gimp> Thanks again....
[06:26] <sbalneav> Hey rodarvus!
[06:26] <sbalneav> How's it going?
[06:26] <rodarvus> hi sbalneav!
[06:26] <rodarvus> recovering :)
[06:26] <sbalneav> Were you sick?  Hope you're feeling better!
[06:26] <rodarvus> hope all is well with you
[06:27] <rodarvus> no, my father passed away last wednesday :/
[06:27] <sbalneav> Oh!
[06:27] <sbalneav> My condolences
[06:27] <rodarvus> sbalneav: thanks, appreciated
[06:27] <ogra> cbx33, did you see the main inclusion queue =
[06:27] <ogra> ?
[06:27] <cbx33> no?
[06:28] <cbx33> 2 secs
[06:28] <ogra> well, have a look :)
[06:28] <ogra> and have a party afterwards ;)
[06:29] <cbx33> ooooh SNAP !
[06:29] <cbx33> wow that's amazing
[06:29] <cbx33> and you're all invited ;)
[06:30] <ogra> i'm just waiting for edubuntu-meta to be done on LP, then i'll add it to -desktop
[06:31] <ogra> the usplash stuff is done as well in edubuntu-artwork
[06:31] <ogra> the throbber front pic has an odd dashed line ...
[06:32] <cbx33> oh...you mean the images I sent?
[06:32] <cbx33> of the ones you used?
[06:34] <ogra> the ones from your webserver
[06:34] <cbx33> ah yes
[06:34] <cbx33> I have to fix that
[06:34] <ogra> i used them as interim
[06:34] <cbx33> was a pallette issue
[06:34] <cbx33> does it look ok?
[06:35] <cbx33> why didn;t it work when I built it?
[06:35] <cbx33> ok
[06:35] <cbx33> I have paid work to do
[06:40] <HorD> chicas para tener una conversacin amigable sobre ubuntu dirijirse hacia #ubuntu-lat gracias que tengan buenas tardes las esperamos :D
[06:48] <sbalneav> heh, trolling for girls in #ubuntu-lat
[06:55] <cbx33> hey Yagisan
[06:56] <Yagisan> G'day cbx33
[06:56] <cbx33> howz it going?
[06:57] <Yagisan> cbx33, not to bad. doing some server reconfiguration now that I've finished beating up on GPL violators this week
[06:57] <cbx33> heheh
[06:58] <Yagisan> cbx33, had one project shut down that was stealing my code. Need to get anotherone shutdown
[06:59] <ogra> mdz, do you want to approve student-control-panel-completion before i set it to implemented ? it just passed the pitti review and is in main ...
[06:59] <Yagisan> cbx33, but for now, I'me getting ready to setup ubuntu ltsp under vserver :)
[06:59] <Yagisan> cbx33, yourself ?
[07:01] <cbx33> yeh going good
[07:01] <cbx33> I'll bbiab
[07:01] <cbx33> dinner
[07:01] <mdz> ogra: who reviewed it?  there's no review indicated in the status whiteboard
[07:01] <sbalneav> Be back after lunch
[07:01] <ogra> mdz, iwj in the end
[07:02] <mdz> ogra: please get the review recorded in the status whiteboard, since that's the only audit trail we have
[07:02] <ogra> and you wanted to take a last look
[07:32] <cbx33> bbl
[07:56] <sbalneav> Back again
[07:56] <cbx33> ogra is a .zip ok ;)
[07:56] <cbx33> I'm on the dozey machine at the mo
[07:56] <cbx33> would be easier :|
[07:57] <ogra> fine
[07:57] <cbx33> ok
[07:57] <cbx33> 2 secs
[07:57] <ogra> sbalneav, see topic :)
[07:58] <ogra> in case you like to test
[07:59] <sbalneav> OK
[07:59] <sbalneav> Checking
[08:00] <Burgwork> scp is love!
[08:00] <Burgwork> now I wish advogato worked, so I can blog
[08:01] <sbalneav> ogra: What's a url for downloading the cd?  I'll ssh into home and kick off a wget
[08:04] <cbx33> Burgwork thanks
[08:04] <ogra> sbalneav, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
[08:04] <ogra> from tomorrow on ...
[08:04] <sbalneav> ogra+10
[08:04] <sbalneav> Or maybe ogra^2
[08:05] <ogra> heh, lets see. i suspect a lot to be broken ...
[08:05] <sbalneav> ah, from tomorrow.   Tomorrow who's time
[08:05] <sbalneav> utc?
[08:05] <ogra> there were many additions the last days
[08:05] <ogra> they are usually built ~1am UTC
[08:06] <ogra> you can check http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/
[08:07] <sbalneav> k, I'll keep a weather eye on it.
[08:09] <ogra> better than a wetter eye :)
[08:10] <sbalneav> Well, if it's WET weather, then one supposes I could do both! :)
[08:12] <ogra> heh
[08:13] <ogra> as long as the wetness is caused by weather all is fine ... if the iso looks so bad that your eyes get wet thats bad :)
[08:42] <capt_kirk> Good evening all.  My test lab is running well, with about 50 students using it for production work.  One question - is it possible to limit login on a specific thin client to a specific group?  I know how to do that with PAM access limits on a generic network, but I can't find any documentation about doing it with LTSP thin clients.  Use case: One large LTSP server with all of the school's...
[08:42] <capt_kirk> ...thin clients.  Some of those clients are in the degree program area and should only be accessible to the degree students.  Other clients in a public area, which should be accessible to both degree and secretarial students.  The question is if I can limit logins on the degree-only clients to the degree group?  Thanks.
[08:44] <Petaris> capt_kirk: I would not think so, as technically there is only the one computer
[08:46] <capt_kirk> Petaris: that's what I've been thinking, but I was hoping that there was a way in lts.conf to limit access on a per-client basis, similar to the way you can set up each client to have a different xserver setting.
[08:46] <Petaris> hrm
[08:46] <Petaris> not sure
[08:47] <Petaris> I suppose that you may be able to hack something up and have it applied to that single ws, but I've not heard of this being done for user managements
[08:49] <sbalneav> capt_kirk: The problem is, all the stuff that goes on with ltsp happens long before the user logs in.
[08:49] <sbalneav> The way handle this would be through user profiles in Sabayon
[08:49] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: yeah, that
[08:50] <sbalneav> I'm assuming some terminals have "special" things on them? Like a printer, or a bigger monitor?
[08:50] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: yeah, that's what I was afraid of.  it looks that way from both the documenation and watching the boot process.
[08:52] <capt_kirk> it's really more of a distribution of resources issue.  There are a lot more secretarial students than degree students.  I'm working at a college in Tanzania for a year.  In America, if we were supposed to have access to a computer, we would speak up.  But the culture here is that students don't challenge other students.  So, even though the degree students pay a lot more and have more work,...
[08:52] <capt_kirk> ...they won't tell the secretarial students to get off the computers.
[08:53] <capt_kirk> We've tried to institute policies, but if there is not an instructor right there enforcing the policy, it doesn't work.
[08:54] <capt_kirk> So, to make sure that there are a minimum number of computers available for degree students, I'd like to keep secretarial students off of some of them, while allowing them to get to the rest.
[08:54] <capt_kirk> I could do it with time restrictions throught PAM, but I was hoping to do it more like PAM's access restrictions allow you to limit access to specific computers.
[08:58] <sbalneav> One could check the LTSP_CLIENT environment variable, and exit out.
[08:58] <sbalneav> I'm just guessing here, but...
[08:58] <capt_kirk> Since the server knows the IP address of the thin clients, I was hoping it would be possible to apply access restrictions based on that, even though I knew it was not likely at this point.  (My real hope was that it was an undocumented feature and that when I asked on here, someone would say, "Oh yeah, you just edit /opt/ltsp/..."
[08:58] <capt_kirk> Thanks.  That's at least a place to start.
[08:59] <capt_kirk> ogra: are you online now?
[08:59] <sbalneav> If you created a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d, called "30-kickoff-certain-clients" with the contents:
[08:59] <sbalneav> if [ ${LTSP_CLIENT} = "192.168.0.x" ] ; then
[08:59] <sbalneav>   exit
[09:00] <sbalneav> fi
[09:00] <Burgwork> timeoutd
[09:00] <sbalneav> That might be a place to begin pokin
[09:00] <sbalneav> whoops, change that to
[09:00] <Burgwork> timeoutd is a daemon for controlling users time
[09:00] <Burgwork> it is in the repos
[09:01] <sbalneav> [ ${LTSP_CLIENT} == "192..." -a $USER = "onewedon'twant" ]
[09:01] <capt_kirk> thanks!
[09:01] <sbalneav> You'd really want to set up some kind of group id mapping, etc.
[09:01] <sbalneav> They'll log in, but just get immediately booted off,
[09:02] <capt_kirk> great.  I'll give it a shot this week.
[09:02] <capt_kirk> sounds pretty straight forward
[09:03] <capt_kirk> burgwork: thanks.  I'll look into timeoutd, too.
[09:03] <LaserJock> hi everybody
[09:03] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[09:07] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[09:08] <HedgeMage> heya LaserJock
[09:08] <LaserJock> hi HedgeMage!
[09:09] <HedgeMage> How are you?
[09:10] <LaserJock> pretty good
[09:10] <LaserJock> how about yourself?
[09:10] <cbx33> hey LJ
[09:10] <HedgeMage> Very good.
[09:10] <HedgeMage> Hi cbx33 :)
[09:11] <HedgeMage> cbx33: when might be a good time to get ahold of your wifey?  I wanted to ask her some art-related stuff.
[09:12] <pygi> hey HedgeMage
[09:12] <HedgeMage> hi pygi :)  Going to mak the meeting, I hope?
[09:12] <pygi> HedgeMage, probably not :-/
[09:13] <HedgeMage> awww :(
[09:15] <cbx33> hey HedgeMage
[09:15] <cbx33> umm
[09:15] <cbx33> she's next to me now
[09:15] <cbx33> I can ask her if you want
[09:15] <cbx33> pygi: it got into main ;D
[09:16] <pygi> cbx33, I know, I know :P
[09:16] <pygi> Congrats =)
[09:16] <cbx33> heheh
[09:16] <pygi> I know :P
[09:17] <cbx33> sorry :(
[09:17] <pygi> lol, no need to be sorry :)
[09:17] <HedgeMage> :)
[09:19] <LaserJock> cbx33!
[09:19] <LaserJock> SCP in Main?
[09:20] <cbx33> yup :D
[09:20] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:21] <pygi> HedgeMage, so no meeting for me most likely, stuffed :(
[09:21] <pygi> also I dont see mhz, perhaps he'll come tho
[09:21] <LaserJock> cbx33: edubuntu-menus is still in NEW :/
[09:21] <cbx33> brb
[09:22] <HedgeMage> We'll run with whomever we have, I guess.
[09:23] <pygi> HedgeMage, thats a problem we'll have none
[09:23] <pygi> me and you only again :-/
[09:23] <HedgeMage> Joyce can't make the meeting due to work, but she's still working on her bit of the handbook
[09:24] <HedgeMage> mhz says his stuff will be finished on time
[09:28] <spacey> hi there
[09:28] <spacey> how is everything going?
[09:28] <spacey> i was away for a while
[09:40] <capt_kirk> 'night all.  (From Easter Aftrica, time is more of an estimate
[09:41] <silentkey> heh
[09:45] <cbx33> phew back
[09:45] <cbx33> sorrry HedgeMage my machine crashed
[09:45] <cbx33> did you reply?
[09:47] <HedgeMage> np yep... Sept 30th is fine
[09:48] <HedgeMage> we're publishing via lulu so we have lots of flexibility
[09:49] <LaserJock> when is your doc freeze?
[09:54] <cbx33> ok cool
[09:58] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: It was *supposed* to be some time ago... some things did not go according to plan
[09:58] <HedgeMage> (largely my fault... hubby had to have surgery so I disappeared to take care of him)
[09:59] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: oh, sorry about your hubby, hopefully he recovers well
[10:00] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: Thanks.  He seems to be doing well so far.
[10:01] <LaserJock> it seems docs, as a whole, didn't get a very good start this release
[10:01] <LaserJock> 4 months isn't long enough
[10:02] <sbalneav> #ubuntu-meeting?
[10:02] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: I suggested postponing the print version to edgy+1 but it wasn't met with much approval :/
[10:03] <HedgeMage> sbalneav: yep
[10:03] <sbalneav> in
[10:03] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: well, don't focus on print too much, that can be done at any time
[10:03] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: Yeah, that's pretty much my attitude -- content is most important.
[10:04] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm very excited to see how this turns out
[10:06] <HedgeMage> Me, too
[10:06] <HedgeMage> As hubby's doing better, I'm trying to get as much as I can done
[10:07] <pygi> HedgeMage, meeting now or something?
[10:07] <HedgeMage> cbx33 mentioned Student Control Panel should be included, though, and I've not even seen it yet... any clue who we might drag in to write something on it?
[10:07] <HedgeMage> pygi: yep
[10:09] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: I'd guess cbx33 ;-)
[10:09] <HedgeMage>  :)
[10:55] <nixternal> HedgeMage: i should be freeing up a little time, in which I would like to help as well with this project, as the meaning behind it strong for me, since my daughter uses it as well ;)
[10:56] <HedgeMage> nixternal: That would be wonderful!
[10:56] <nixternal> right now LaserJock has me working like you wouldn't believe..and he won't even buy me lunch ;(
[10:57] <LaserJock> heh
[10:58] <HedgeMage> rofl
[10:58] <nixternal> oh..there is a guy in one of my LUGs who is a LTSP nut, and has planned on doing some editing on the wiki for it..I will also direct him this way if he is interested as well
[10:58] <HedgeMage> Cool
[11:02] <cbx33> brb...
[11:04] <nixternal> that guy and LTSP, would it be good to put him in contact with sbalneav since he is the LTSP guru i guess you could say ;)
[11:05] <nixternal> i guess this guy figured out some tips and tricks with LTSP and Ubuntu/Edubuntu
[11:06] <LaserJock> sbalneav, ogra, and #ltsp
[11:06] <LaserJock> which are kind of all equal
[11:08] <nixternal> sweet !
[11:17] <pygi> LaserJock, hehe :)
[11:49] <LaserJock> oh, hi Amaranth
[11:49] <LaserJock> I was just trying to see if willowng 0.3 was in the archives
[11:49] <LaserJock> but it seems it's not
[11:49] <Amaranth> hey
[11:49] <Amaranth> i think it got stuck in binary NEW
[11:49] <Amaranth> if you point at launchpad you can snag the debs
[11:49] <LaserJock> ahhh
[11:49] <LaserJock> I didn't think we had a binary NEW
[11:50] <Amaranth> LaserJock: That silly KDE config frontend got me lost in limbo. ;)
[11:50] <LaserJock> sorry
[11:50] <LaserJock> KDE user's around the world will love you though ;-)
[11:50] <Amaranth> I'll probably be able to maintain it on my own now that I have the ui files and such.
[11:50] <Amaranth> I know enough to modify what's there.
[11:51] <LaserJock> well, don't hesitate to ask if you need help
[11:51] <LaserJock> and I think perhaps Robert Day was also interested in a web interface
[11:52] <LaserJock> although I don't really know his level of expertise
[12:01] <cbx33> OMW - man was there a lot of dirt on my CPU heatsink
[12:02] <Amaranth> alright well i found a new time killer - GridWars - and it only works on windows so i'll brb


[03:02] <twobottux`> aujuju: How can I manage multiple administrators with juju? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/179230/how-can-i-manage-multiple-administrators-with-juju>
[07:18] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: mornin'
[07:18] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, heyhey
[07:18] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: how's the uniter trauma going?
[07:19] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I *think* it's starting to feel sane again :)
[07:20] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I'll see what I can pull together this morning :)
[07:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: cool. i haven't got what the suggested change is. is it to do with using bzr for the upgrading?
[07:21] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, that's actually quite a small part of it -- the stuff I've been having difficulty with is the relatively innocuous suggestion that there shouldn't be any distinction between forced and unforced upgrade operations, and uh, something else I forget
[07:21] <rogpeppe> interesting
[07:23] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: BTW i just discovered a piece of cmd/juju testing which is fairly crackful - all the DeploySuite tests are executed 4 times each!
[07:23] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, golly
[07:23] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, how did that happen?
[07:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it's 'cos other command test suites are embedding DeploySuite
[07:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: not quite sure how that got past my radar
[07:24] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, gaaaaah
[07:24] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, well, hey, faster tests :)
[07:24] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, nice catch
[07:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: now i just have to work out how much of DeploySuite can be replaced by JujuConnSuite
[07:25]  * fwereade_ hopes lots
[07:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: lots but... maybe not all; i think perhaps the JUJU_REPOSITORY setting needs to remain
[07:25] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, still :)
[07:25] <rogpeppe> yeah
[08:41] <TheMue> morning
[08:44] <fwereade_> TheMue, heyhey
[08:44] <TheMue> fwereade_: heya
[08:54]  * niemeyer waves
[08:59] <fwereade_> niemeyer, heyhey
[09:00] <fwereade_> niemeyer, nice response :)
[09:00] <fwereade_> niemeyer, (on the list)
[09:02] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Morning!
[09:02] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Cheers.. tricky too
[09:07] <fwereade_> getting coffee + sunlight, bbs
[09:07] <niemeyer> Nice plan
[09:08] <niemeyer> No sun here yet, but I could get some coffee
[10:58] <TheMue> niemeyer, Aram: you should get a link to a document via mail. so far e don't use very much watchers in trunk.
[10:58] <Aram> cheers.
[10:59] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sure, but the question is which watchers are needed/used
[10:59] <niemeyer> TheMue: You can talk to William to see details of the unit agent, and the Python code base for evaluation
[11:00] <Aram> niemeyer: I tried yesterday an experiment. I saw that you defined a local M type in txn and used that instead of the cluncky bson.M. I tried the same with bson.D in mstate. I did a local type D []bson.DocElem and then s/bson\.D/D/g but it won't work, any idea why.
[11:01] <TheMue> niemeyer: yes, i think especially in fwereade_s queue are several usages
[11:01] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah, bson.D is handled specially internally
[11:01] <Aram> interesting.
[11:01] <niemeyer> Aram: I guess we could make it check for the element type instead
[11:01] <niemeyer> Aram: Will have a look as I'm preparing an update
[11:02] <niemeyer> (mainly to get a few details of txn polished)
[11:18] <fwereade_> TheMue, offhand, the watchers I do/will need for the UA are: Service.WatchRelations; Service.WatchCharm; Unit.WatchResolved; Unit.WatchLife;  RelationUnit.Watch
[11:18] <fwereade_> Aram, ^^
[11:18] <TheMue> fwereade_: hehe, thx, just scanning your proposals
[11:19] <fwereade_> TheMue, Aram: of those, only the last one should be tricky
[11:19] <Aram> fwereade_: thank you kind sir
[11:19] <Aram> yep
[11:19] <fwereade_> TheMue, Aram: if I find I've forgotten one I'll let you know ;)
[11:19] <TheMue> fwereade_: great, thx again
[11:20] <TheMue> Aram: I'll add it to the file
[11:31]  * fwereade_ sighs with relief -- the Uniter has been massaged into a new shape, which passes (near-enough-exactly) the original tests :)
[11:32] <fwereade_> (excluding actual upgrades, not everything in place there yet, but I feel vindicated all the same :))
[11:32]  * niemeyer sighs with fwereade_
[11:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ok, I has a plan
[11:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I want a damn uniter, so I intend to crudely hack out everything charm-related that I don't need, just to do a single dumb install without sufficiently smart recovery
[11:34] <fwereade_> niemeyer, happily your suggestions made it a hell of a lot easier to do that, much easier to decouple charmy modes from hooky modes
[11:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: +1!
[11:35] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Glad to hear the refactoring went well
[11:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, rough order, then: basic-uniter; charm-smart-upgrades; uniter-upgrade-charm; uniter-with-relations
[11:36] <fwereade_> niemeyer, in which uuc depends on csu depends on bu; and uwr hopefully just depends on bu
[11:36] <TheMue> fwereade_: Found a NeedsUpgradeWatcher in uniter/modes.go, but not yet in trunk. is it in one of your proposals too?
[11:36] <fwereade_> TheMue, I killed that the other day
[11:36] <fwereade_> TheMue, replaced by Service.WatchCharm
[11:36] <TheMue> fwereade_: ah, fine, will kill it too ;)
[11:37] <fwereade_> TheMue, cheers :)
[11:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Neat
[11:37] <fwereade_> niemeyer, yeah, it did -- it took a depressingly long time to find something that didn't acively hurt to look at
[11:38] <fwereade_> niemeyer, in fact, I'd better try to document the proposed charm.Manager (sorry :( ) API so you can point out all the ways it's crackful before I go too far ;)
[11:40] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'd be happy to have a look
[11:42] <fwereade_> niemeyer, actually, huh, it should obviously be charm.Directory :/
[11:42] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'm not sure.. we have charm.Dir already :)
[11:42] <fwereade_> niemeyer, hmm :)
[11:43] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'll stick with manager for now, then, Directory isn't actually quite right because it needs to keep other stuff in a separate state dir
[12:18] <fwereade_> niemeyer, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162551/
[12:18]  * fwereade_ tries not to look anxious
[12:19] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Looks quite nice :-)
[12:20] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cool :)
[12:20] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Slightly surprised to see state.Charm there, for some reason
[12:20] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I *think* it's the right type to use in general; maybe crackfulness will become apparent when you see it used :)
[12:21] <niemeyer> fwereade_: func (*Manager) ReadStatus() (Status, *state.Charm, error)
[12:21] <niemeyer> fwereade_: How can the manager know the *state.Charm* in use?
[12:21] <fwereade_> niemeyer, (man, it did take forever to figure out the right bits -- for a while I had a separate Operation type which really seemed like a good idea)
[12:21] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'd expect it to know the URL instead
[12:22] <fwereade_> niemeyer, it's passed a *state.State on create (whoops, forgot that bit)
[12:22] <fwereade_> niemeyer, entirely so that it can give back a *state.Charm when asked
[12:22] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yeah, I'm arguing that this is a bit awkward
[12:22] <niemeyer> fwereade_: It should really give back the URL, IMO
[12:22] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I *think* it works out better like this than messing around creating them in the Uniter
[12:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I think it breaks down a level of encapsulation for little benefit
[12:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: state.Charm(url)
[12:23] <fwereade_> niemeyer, but, well, feedback like this is why I showed you -- thanks :)
[12:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: That's all it takes
[12:24] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Thanks :)
[12:25] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I was on the fence, and I think it saved a couple of lines of code, but you're right -- cleaner API > cleaner client code
[12:29] <fwereade_> brb
[12:55] <TheMue> lunchtime
[12:58] <niemeyer> Aram: Curious
[12:58] <niemeyer> Aram: Turns out I was wrong
[12:58] <Aram> yes
[12:59] <niemeyer> Aram: bson.D isn't special
[12:59] <niemeyer> Aram: It's already looking at the element type it seems
[12:59] <Aram> so what's the issue?
[12:59] <Aram> hmm
[13:01] <niemeyer> Aram: Ah, hmm
[13:01] <niemeyer> Aram: No, I'm wrong again
[13:02] <niemeyer> Aram: It's used explicitly through different logic..
[13:02] <Aram> ok.
[13:04] <Aram> niemeyer: this should work as an Assert in txn, right?
[13:04] <Aram> bson.D{{"$or", []bson.D{
[13:04] <Aram> 		bson.D{{"needsupgrade", nil}},
[13:04] <Aram> 		bson.D{{"needsupgrade", NeedsUpgrade{Upgrade: true, Force: force}}},
[13:04] <Aram> 	}},
[13:04] <Aram> }
[13:05] <Aram> just an $or query...
[13:05] <Aram> I have a mysterious issue here.
[13:05] <niemeyer> Aram: You're probably getting caught into the difference of non-existence vs. nil
[13:06] <niemeyer> Aram: That said, this stuff has changed in state in the past couple of days
[13:06] <niemeyer> Aram: It's a lot more friendly to mstate now
[13:06] <niemeyer> Aram: It's probably easier to migrate it
[13:06] <Aram> ok, I'll do that, but I'm still interested in the issue.
[13:07] <Aram> it fails if needsupgrade was already set to that value.
[13:07] <Aram> but why would it, the assertion should hold true in that case, right?
[13:08] <Aram> I have another $or assert like that, also one of the options is nil, and that works fine.
[13:15] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah, it's worth understanding why that is happening before moving on
[13:15] <niemeyer> Aram: Ah
[13:15] <niemeyer> Aram: []bson.D isn't right
[13:16] <niemeyer> Aram: Is that even working?
[13:16] <niemeyer> Aram: I mean., compiling
[13:16] <Aram> sure.
[13:16] <Aram> all my $or queries are []bson.D
[13:17] <niemeyer> Aram: Hmm, sorry, I'm on crack.. it's right
[13:17] <niemeyer> Aram: What is the value like in the database?"
[13:17] <niemeyer> Aram: At the moment the assertion fails
[13:17] <Aram> NeedsUpgrade{Upgrade: true, Force: force}
[13:17] <Aram> exactly what the assertion says
[13:18] <Aram> I add it once in the begining, it matches nil and it puts it in the db, then I try to add it again which should also work
[13:18] <Aram> but I get txn.ErrAborted
[13:20] <niemeyer> Aram: Ah, hmm
[13:20] <niemeyer> Aram: I know what's wrong
[13:20] <niemeyer> Aram: Let me confirm it
[13:21] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah
[13:21] <Aram> so what is?
[13:21] <niemeyer> Aram: txn is using "$or" too
[13:21] <niemeyer> Aram: I'll add a test and fix it
[13:22] <niemeyer> Aram: Thanks for persisting on it
[13:22] <Aram> so it's a txn bug?
[13:22] <Aram> heh.
[13:22] <Aram> great.
[13:23] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah.. I was (ab)using $or internally to make it cheaper to build the query
[13:24] <niemeyer> Aram: I have to mix the queries instead
[13:25] <niemeyer> Aram: So it ended up like {"$or": [{"$or": ...}]}
[13:30] <hazmat> will juju-core use mongodb to distribute charm files instead of provider storage?
[13:30] <Aram> no.
[13:31] <Aram> (or at least not yet?)
[13:34] <niemeyer> Aram: Curious.. i can't reproduce it in a test
[13:34] <niemeyer> hazmat, Aram: It will, it doesn't yet
[13:36] <niemeyer> Aram: Ah, got it
[13:45] <niemeyer> Aram: I can't reproduce it
[13:45] <niemeyer> Aram: Can you please paste the snippet of code that is failing?
[13:46] <hazmat> niemeyer, with the move to that, the only use of provider storage will be the client map to api/db servers? or is the plan to ditch provider object storage entirely?
[13:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: We may be able to ditch it entirely, but that's a bit off still
[13:48] <niemeyer> Aram: It looks like the nesting actually works
[13:48] <Aram> niemeyer: I will try to produce a self contained example
[13:49] <niemeyer> Aram: Can you please just paste the snippet first?
[13:49] <Aram> sure
[13:49] <hazmat> niemeyer, cool, thats fine, i'm just talking future speak to an interested provider.
[13:49] <niemeyer> hazmat: I see, I do hope we're able to handle without the provider storage
[13:50] <niemeyer> Aram: I've addressed the custom []DocElem, btw
[13:50] <niemeyer> Aram: Will be out, probably as soon as we nail down why you're having trouble
[13:53] <Aram> niemeyer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162690/
[13:53] <Aram> I've marked the failed assert
[13:53] <Aram> with THIS FAILS
[13:56] <niemeyer> Aram: Thanks
[13:56] <niemeyer> Aram: This test passes, btw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162673/
[13:57] <Aram> niemeyer: wrote a self reproducing test
[13:57] <niemeyer> Aram: Oh, brilliant!
[13:57] <Aram> niemeyer: works with go run
[13:57] <Aram> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162701/
[13:57] <niemeyer> Aram: I'll try moving that onto a test case
[13:58] <niemeyer> Aram: Uh oh
[13:58] <niemeyer> Aram: This is bogus
[13:58] <Aram> niemeyer: wait, something is worng
[13:58] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah
[13:58] <niemeyer> Aram: It's this bit: {{"a", nil}, {"a", "a"}}
[13:58] <niemeyer> Aram: This isn't a list of documents
[13:59] <niemeyer> Aram: It's a single document with two repeated fields
[13:59] <niemeyer> Aram: But that's not what you have in the real code
[13:59] <Aram> it isn't?
[13:59] <Aram> 	sel := bson.D{{"$or", []bson.D{
[13:59] <Aram> 			bson.D{{"needsupgrade", nil}},
[13:59] <Aram> 			bson.D{{"needsupgrade", nu}},
[13:59] <Aram> 		}},
[13:59] <Aram> 	}
[13:59] <Aram> that's the real code
[14:00] <niemeyer> Aram: Right.. that's not what the self-contained example has
[14:00] <niemeyer> Aram: The example is wrong, the real code is right
[14:01] <Aram> right
[14:01] <Aram> well, let me fix that
[14:01] <niemeyer> Aram: Btw, the THIS FAILS seems misplaced
[14:01] <niemeyer> Aram: It's pointing to a get rather than a set
[14:02] <niemeyer> Aram: Is the the set right above it the proper place?
[14:02] <Aram> niemeyer: yeah, sorry.
[14:02] <Aram> the set above
[14:06] <Aram> niemeyer: fixed my self contained example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162716/
[14:06] <Aram> but I can't reproduce it either
[14:06] <Aram> it works there
[14:07] <Aram> and it's a good test, if I change "a" to b "b" in the assert, it fails the second change, which is correct.
[14:07] <Aram> so nothing wrong on the txn side.
[14:10] <niemeyer> Aram: and the only way to get ErrAborted is really for the assertion to fail
[14:10] <niemeyer> Aram: Nothing else returns it.. so it's a bit puzzling
[14:10] <Aram> yeah, what's difference between the self contained example and the real code... the assertion is the same.
[14:11] <Aram> the only difference is that one is a *string and one is a *T
[14:11] <niemeyer> Aram: Can you please enable mgo.SetDebug(true) right before executing the failing statement, so we can see what's running?
[14:11] <niemeyer> Aram: Ah, and mgo.SetLogger(c)
[14:12] <niemeyer> Aram: Hmmmmmm
[14:12] <niemeyer> Aram: Let me check something
[14:13] <Aram> niemeyer: debug log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1162725/
[14:13] <niemeyer> Aram: I bet it's the reordering of the fields
[14:15] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeaahhhh
[14:16] <Aram> interesting.
[14:16] <niemeyer> Aram: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1162730/
[14:17] <Aram> hmm...
[14:17] <niemeyer> Aram: txn is using a map to inject some data in the inserted document (such as its id, revno, etc)
[14:17] <niemeyer> Aram: Will have to change it to a bson.D to avoid his
[14:17] <niemeyer> this
[14:18] <Aram> so it was a real bug, after all
[14:22] <niemeyer> Aram: Yep, can't reorder fields since people can trust on it
[14:31] <niemeyer> Aram: Thanks for the care on this, btw
[14:34] <Aram> welcme
[15:23] <fwereade_> niemeyer, also, 3rd time's the charm... maybe... https://codereview.appspot.com/6482053
[15:23] <fwereade_> niemeyer, and on that bombshell, I am *exhausted*, and am going to knock off a little early today -- I'll almost certainly be back on later with my heart in my mouth ;)
[15:24] <fwereade_> later all
[15:24] <Aram> cheers
[15:25] <fwereade_> (and if anyone else is kinda lounging around, not sure what to do with themselves, please do take a look...)
[15:25] <fwereade_> ;p
[15:29] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Get some good rest!
[15:42] <niemeyer>   * installation (not really resumable, except by luck)
[15:42] <niemeyer> LOL
[16:11] <TheMue> Aram: you got the list of the test comparison, now i'll focus on adding the missing ones
[16:13] <niemeyer> Lunch
[16:15] <TheMue> niemeyer: enjoy
[17:37]  * niemeyer waves
[17:43] <rogpeppe> i'm off now. struggling with test stuff all day, hopefully make more progress tomorrow.
[17:44] <rogpeppe> see yous tomorrow
[17:55] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Have a good time
[18:18] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I hope the review on the first branch makes sense
[19:11] <niemeyer> Doc appointment.. back in 30-60mins
[21:24] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Uniter <3
[21:53] <fwereade_> niemeyer, w00t!
[21:54] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I was actually looking at the modes rather than the Uniter itself.. that stuff is superb
[21:55] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Can almost read it to a child :)
[21:55] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I was hoping you'd like it :D
[21:56] <fwereade_> niemeyer, it will get a touch heavier when we add the various other watches, but actually much less so than one might fear
[21:56] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Of course, but the mechanism itself is straightforward
[21:56] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Easy to navigate mentally between the states
[21:57] <fwereade_> niemeyer, yep -- you remember I originally wanted to make them types? I though the setup would be significant enough to hurt, but actually it really isn't
[21:58] <fwereade_> niemeyer, and yeah, just 2 more modes, upgrading and conflicted
[22:00] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I have a sketch with a mildly interesting helper type for ModeStarted, but it doesn't become relevant until upgrades *and* relations are in play... and even then it's a touch marginal, will be interesting to see if it's worthwhile when I'm watching lifecycles as well
[22:01] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yeah
[22:02] <fwereade_> niemeyer, good comments on the preceding review, btw, I think I will refrain from addressing them until I'm a bit soberer ;)
[22:04] <niemeyer> fwereade_: LOL
[22:04] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Sounds like a plan :)
[23:17] <niemeyer> davechen1y: Heya
[23:18] <davechen1y> niemeyer: hey
[23:43] <niemeyer> davecheney: Regarding the env config
[23:43] <davecheney> yes
[23:43] <niemeyer> davecheney: I think what you did is sane, and I was thinking of something that is not an issue..
[23:43] <davecheney> ok, phew
[23:43] <niemeyer> davecheney: My main concern is that we shouldn't have in state something that is an invalid environ.Config
[23:43] <niemeyer> erm
[23:44] <niemeyer> environs/config.Config
[23:44] <davecheney> niemeyer: right, i don't think that is a problem with this proposal
[23:44] <niemeyer> davecheney: Otherwise the whole thing will break down when we try to make state.EnvironConfig() return a first class type
[23:44] <niemeyer> davecheney: yeah.. the fields being removed are fine
[23:44] <niemeyer> davecheney: They're specific to the environ
[23:44] <davecheney> yup


[23:51] <guilboc> hi
[23:51] <nhandler> Hello guilboc
[23:52] <guilboc> Anyone can help me ?
[23:52] <nhandler> guilboc: It would help if you explained what you needed help with
[23:52] <guilboc> I'd like to install Windows 7 on my computer in Dual Boot with Ubuntu
[23:53] <nhandler> guilboc: You would have better luck in #ubuntu or ##windows
[23:54] <guilboc> Ok, thank you


[14:24] <dpm> mvo, on my local machine, where can I see the icons of all applications available in the software center, regardless whether they come from the archive, ppas, extras... ?
[14:26] <mvo> dpm: /usr/share/app-install/icons
[14:26] <dpm> cool, thanks!
[14:26] <mvo> dpm: and ~/.cache/software-center/icons
[14:26] <mvo> for the downloaded stuff
[14:33] <dpm> mvo, cool, that's what I was looking for. Another quick question: is there any way to get the icons in other sizes (either locally or via api), if they are available? Most of the local icons seem to be 64px
[14:33] <mvo> dpm: I don't think so
[14:34] <mvo> dpm: I mean for myapps or the local ones?
[14:34] <dpm> mvo, either
[14:35] <mvo> dpm: so for the local ones there is a data extraction run that we do
[14:35] <mvo> dpm: and I could try to generate bigger ones from the raw data
[14:35] <mvo> dpm: its relatively expensive though (i.e. takes some time to run etc)
[14:36] <mvo> dpm: as for the remote service, the data is available at http://software-center.ubuntu.com/api/2.0/applications/en/ubuntu/oneiric/i386/
[14:36] <mvo> dpm: but it only has "icon_url" in there, not icon_urls with different sizes
[14:37] <mvo> dpm: there are multipleones in the db, I thought they are exported, but apparently I misremember
[14:38] <dpm> mvo, no worries, no need to do anything. I was just interested to know how to get them easily, if possible. Thanks!
[14:39] <mvo> yw
[15:20] <zoopster> It is awfully quiet out here
[15:28] <dpm> zoopster, indeed
[15:28] <zoopster> it's the post feature freeze chill out
[15:30] <dpm> :)
[17:40] <ajmitch> zoopster: sorry, I'll try & file a few bugs against developer-portal to give you something to do :)
[19:09] <jarek> Hello
[19:09] <jarek> http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/02/top-10-ubuntu-app-downloads-for-january-2012/
[19:09] <jarek> ^ what is the average number of downloads for top selling apps on Ubuntu Store?
[19:10] <jarek> is it above 500 sells / month?


[04:18] <astraljava> Anyone know where to reach Pjotr? I'd need some further info re: abiword translations.
[04:35] <micahg> astraljava: see PM
[14:20] <Pjotr> Hello, I have a question regarding xfce4-power-manager.
[14:20] <Pjotr> A couple of days ago, upstream has released xfce4-power-manager 1.0.11.
[14:20] <Pjotr> Will it make it into Xubuntu Precise? That would be very desirable, because it contains important translation updates.
[14:22] <Pjotr> mr_pouit: maybe you can answer this?
[14:27] <knome> Pjotr, very unlikely
[14:27] <knome> Pjotr, unless it's *only* translations
[14:30] <mr_pouit> imho, too risky
[14:30] <mr_pouit> too many changes that were lying in git for too long
[14:30] <mr_pouit> (so I've no idea of the current state)
[14:31] <Pjotr> hmmm.... when I check the changelog, the translation updates seem to be the main part of the changes:
[14:31] <Pjotr> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=d6ef3927cead0016731dcfe3427adbfa434dfb30
[14:32] <mr_pouit> mmh, I checked the commits, and it might be fine
[14:33] <mr_pouit> I'll look into it this evening
[14:33] <mr_pouit> (no big commit included as I feared, so it's ok i think)
[14:33] <Pjotr> thanks in advance! :-)
[16:46] <astraljava> mr_pouit: I asked about the translations on -motu, and was advised to write to the Debian maintainer, which I did. If you want to be included in the mail thread, please let me know.
[17:57] <pleia2> nudged friend in IS, he had me delete all my wiki subscriptions and then readd them, seems to have worked to get me subbed to .* pages :)
[17:57] <pleia2> finicky wiki
[17:58] <Unit193> Heh, quite. I hate it.
[18:01] <Unit193> I've found it doesn't allow you to change pages by editing the URL, it'll dump you on the page you're already on.
[18:02] <Unit193> So if you're at wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Guide, and take off Testing/Guide, it'll dump you back to Testing/Guide anyway.
[18:08] <GridCube> O_o
[18:09] <TheMouldyMarsBar> What?
[18:09] <pleia2> Unit193: sounds like there is something wrong with your browser
[18:10] <Unit193> pleia2: Nope, happens every time on different computers, and used firebug to figure out what was going on. (Or, it'a a FF bug that doesn't hit any other sites and is in all of 'em)
[18:10] <pleia2> maybe I don't understand what you're doing then
[18:10] <pleia2> I can edit the address in the addressbar and go to pages fine
[18:14] <Unit193> I can change from one section to another if I know it, just if I try to remove part of it then fails (Taking IRC/Bots and going to IRC/ubottu works, but trying to go up to IRC/ or / doesn't)
[18:14] <Unit193> Does it in FF, and just checked in "Opera"
[18:15] <Unit193> Anywho, wrong channel to get anything done with it.
[18:25] <astraljava> Unit193: Yes, but let me just add that in Chrome, there's no such problem.
[18:26] <Unit193> astraljava: Continued in -ot, seems it sometimes works as it should, and explained better(?)
[18:27] <astraljava> On other news, Xorg seems to have gone mad lately. Both in oneiric, and now in precise, it consistently consumes some ~15% or CPU, causing the fan blow almost all the time.
[18:28] <astraljava> This on my laptop, with Intel on-board graphics. Sadly, I won't have time to (help) debug, as I'm returning it to the employer in a matter of days.
[19:12] <TheMouldyMarsBar>  /quit