[00:56] <oursland> I'm running into a problem building perarch for v4.16.5. Linking fails on 'acpidbg' with a number of undefined references to C stdlib components.  There's also a warning about failing to find symbol _start.  Is anyone familiar with this error and it's resolution?
[07:18] <apw> oursland, not sure i know what perarch is
[07:18] <apw> do you have a pastebin of the errors perhaps
[10:25] <cascardo> dsmythies: you may install linux-base from xenial-proposed
[11:57] <oursland> apw, https://gitlab.com/snippets/1713199
[11:57] <oursland> perarch refers to this command "fakeroot debian/rules binary-perarch"
[12:04] <apw> oursland, that i have not seen
[12:11] <cking> we enabled ACPI debugging in Bionic, I believe the ACPI debug tools were enabled too
[12:11] <sforshee> oursland: see if this helps - https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/unstable/commit/?id=8506e11a79d14989409542b885beba7119190562
[12:14] <cking> sforshee, nice one
[12:14] <sforshee> cking: yeah I need to send it upstream, kind of forgot
[12:15] <cking> sforshee, I think I saw some fix being talked about using ld/gcc somewhere recently, can't recall where now
[13:18] <oursland> sforshee: Thanks!  That resolved the issue.
[15:08] <dsmythies> cascardo: thanks. that worked fine. it still complains about not having libssl1.1 during install, and linux-headers-4.17.0-041700rc3-lowlatency ends up unconfigured, but the kernel seems to boot. As for removal/purge, it seems to work O.K.
[19:04] <oursland> Next issue: "linux-update-symlinks: not found"  This is on 16.04, but it appears that this command is not yet included until later distributions.  Is installing kernel v4.16 not supported on 16.04 at all?
[19:12] <dsmythies> oursland: update and it should now work. I believe they just promoted the package "linux-base", which has the missing files, from xenial-proposed to normal updates a few hours ago.
[19:14] <dsmythies> oursland: see also bug 1766728
[19:17] <oursland> Thanks, ubot5.   I'll give that a shot.
[19:21] <oursland> Err, thanks dsmythies!


[01:34] <callmepk> good morning
[01:52] <jamesh> morning callmepk
[01:52] <callmepk> morning jamesh
[01:58] <duflu> Hi callmepk and jamesh
[01:59] <callmepk> morning duflu
[05:45] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:19] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[06:19] <ricotz> good morning
[06:20] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, ricotz
[06:27] <duflu> Hi ricotz
[06:39] <didrocks> good morning
[06:39] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[06:40] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN !
[06:40] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[06:42] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:11] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk jamesh duflu oSoMoN ricotz didrocks
[07:12] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[07:14] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
[07:15] <jibel> Good morning all
[07:15] <duflu> Hi jibel
[07:15] <marcustomlinson> hey jibel
[07:16] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:18] <jamesh> hi marcustomlinson
[07:27] <jibel> salut duflu marcustomlinson didrocks
[07:48] <luna> morning desktoppers
[07:51] <didrocks> hey luna
[07:55] <jibel> Hi luna
[08:05] <seb128> hey didrocks, oSoMoN, duflu, marcustomlinson, jibel, jamesh, luna, how is everyone?
[08:05] <marcustomlinson> hey luna and seb128
[08:06] <marcustomlinson> seb128: doing ok thanks you?
[08:06] <duflu> Hi luna and seb128
[08:06] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va, et toi ?
[08:07] <seb128> I'm alright thanks :-)
[08:07] <jibel> salut seb128
[08:17] <Laney> whoopsie
[08:17] <Laney> hi!
[08:19] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:34] <marcustomlinson> hey Laney
[08:35] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:06] <callmepk> hi marcustomlinson oSoMoN ricotz didrocks seb128 Laney
[09:09] <jibel> Hi callmepk
[09:09] <callmepk> hi jibel
[09:12] <didrocks> hey callmepk
[13:33] <seb128> I finally managed to restore the missing focal SRU ddebs I think!
[13:39] <oSoMoN> \o/
[14:09] <ricotz> seb128, hi :)
[14:09] <seb128> ricotz, hey, how are you?
[14:10] <ricotz> seb128, I am good, looking forward to get some things done
[14:10] <ricotz> seb128, how are you?
[14:10] <ricotz> seb128, did you have a moment for the imcontext bugs in gtk+3.0?
[14:10] <ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1925379
[14:10] <ubot3> Launchpad bug 1925379 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Auto-Correct in LibreOffice does not work with 3.24.25-1ubuntu4" [High, In Progress]
[14:11] <ricotz> there are a bunch of problems in there
[14:11] <ricotz> like:
[14:11] <ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1925379
[14:11] <ricotz> +-  path = g_build_filename (g_get_user_config_dir (), "gtk-4.0", "Compose", NULL);
[14:11] <ricotz> ++  path = g_build_filename (g_get_user_config_dir (), "gtk-3.0", "Compose", NULL);
[14:13] <seb128> ricotz, I'm alright, busy with roadmap meetings
[14:14] <seb128> ricotz, gtk I was waiting on Robert, https://trello.com/c/2JXCi4nC/252-backport-gtk-fix-for-flutter-from-32427-to-hirsute
[14:14] <seb128> he confirmed it fixes the flutter issue so I will try to upload later or tomorrow
[14:15] <ricotz> great, thanks
[14:15] <ricotz> oSoMoN, please see PM
[14:32] <juliank> seb128: mind if I sync pipewire 0.3.26? My BT in-ears are unstable with 0.3.25 and I just noticed there's a new one in experimental
[14:33] <juliank> or do you want 0.3.25 migrated first?
[14:33] <seb128> juliank, no it's fine, sync away, thanks
[14:34] <juliank> Oh, not imported yet, so a few more hours/minutes
[14:34] <juliank> I'll script it :D
[14:34] <juliank> watch -n 300 'yes | syncpackage -d experimental pipewire'
[14:34] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[14:34] <marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
[14:35] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
[14:35] <hellsworth> 👋
[14:36] <juliank> I wish we could feed launchpad a list of packages to sync from experimental itself :D
[15:09] <jibel> Good morning hellsworth
[15:10] <ricotz> hey hellsworth
[15:18] <hellsworth> hi folks!
[16:35] <luna> hey
[19:20] <KGB-1> mozjs tags 9fde890 Marco Trevisan upstream/78.10.1 * https://deb.li/31670
[19:20] <KGB-1> mozjs upstream/78 9fde890 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) (548 files in 160 dirs) * New upstream version 78.10.1 * https://deb.li/3pAnA
[19:20] <KGB-1> mozjs pristine-tar 750f3a4 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) mozjs78_78.10.1.orig.tar.xz.delta mozjs78_78.10.1.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for mozjs78_78.10.1.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/ijQfi


[00:29] <Azelphur> daftykins: virtual machine in libvirt with no other OS / partitions, it's stupid :P
[00:30] <daftykins> ah
[00:30] <daftykins> funky
[00:30] <daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Icy-Box-IB-254U3-Enclosure-interface/dp/B00GYLDDCG/
[00:31] <daftykins> i'm gonna get me one o' these to throw a lappy HDD in and make it my xbox one extra storage :>
[00:31] <Azelphur> sounds fun
[00:32] <Azelphur> daftykins: amusingly, I have piles of 3.5 inch enclosures laying about, I keep giving them away
[00:33] <daftykins> with UASP? ;)
[00:33] <zmoylan-pi> so you're giving homes to the homes of 3.5" devices... :-)
[00:33] <Azelphur> daftykins: dunno
[00:33] <daftykins> seems to be a pretty newish thing
[00:33] <daftykins> not often present
[00:33] <Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: indeed, I buy drives in enclosures because it's cheaper, then pull them out of the enclosures
[00:33] <Azelphur> I've had 5 of them now
[00:33] <daftykins> i did just remember i have my old array of 6 x 1TB doing nothing, but the idea of slapping two in an external 2 bay RAID thing for USB 3 would be noisy
[00:37] <Azelphur> I have a 4x5TB array :)
[00:40] <daftykins> eh i have main storage too, but i'm more thinking of what can be attached to the xbox one
[00:40] <daftykins> since sadly you can't swap out the internal without encountering the wrath of breaking terms of service
[00:41] <daftykins> they've just geared up to releasing a new 'elite' model like the 360 had, which comes with a 1TB SSHD =|
[00:41] <daftykins> Azelphur: speaking of, presumably you meant you/your gf have an xbox one to pop on one of those 4K displays from earlier?
[00:41] <daftykins> i hadn't even read anything about whether they properly upscale to it yet
[00:46] <Azelphur> daftykins: xbox 360 actually, gf is considering getting an xbox one :)
[00:48] <Azelphur> daftykins: the main appeal of it for that however is being a monitor, means lower latency for games while TVs generally have much higher latency
[00:49] <daftykins> i think that'll be invalidated by the fact its' input lag and latency is based on being fed a 4K image
[00:49] <daftykins> giving it a 360 will mean it'll output 1080p tops, so the inbuilt will be responsible for the upscaling
[00:49] <daftykins> could end up... interesting :D
[00:49] <Azelphur> daftykins: surely it'd be lower for a 1080p image
[00:49] <daftykins> hmm?
[00:50] <Azelphur> surely the latency would be lower for a 1080i (actually xbox is 1080i) image...
[00:50] <daftykins> the xbox 360's scaler chip outputs the 1080p regardless
[00:51] <Azelphur> daftykins: yea, but the latency on the monitor is gonna be lower than that of a tv.
[00:51] <Azelphur> which is the point I'm making
[00:51] <daftykins> i've got no data on that :D
[00:52] <Azelphur> TVs have so high latency they generally don't even list it
[00:52] <Azelphur> it's bad, some TVs (like the Seiki) is like 200ms+
[00:52] <daftykins> i don't think that's true across the board
[00:53] <ali1234> HDMI has no latency so the size of the picture isn't directly related to latency
[00:53] <Azelphur> probably not but I challenge you to find a TV with its input latency listed in its spec
[00:53] <zmoylan-pi> with all the numbers they throw around with new tvs i never hear latency mentioned
[00:54] <daftykins> it is when the TV's built-in hardware has to scale it \o/
[00:54] <ali1234> yes
[00:54] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: newp more of a gamer thing still
[00:54] <zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for gamers driving down the prices of new tech :-)
[00:54] <ali1234> although if it is just doubling every pixel, that in theory could be done with no latency
[00:55] <daftykins> but it never is since they add a tonne of image magic
[00:55] <ali1234> in TVs yeah
[00:55] <diddledan> \o/ magic!
[00:55] <ali1234> not so much in monitors
[00:55] <daftykins> woohoo!
[00:55] <diddledan> TVs are awesome for ruining a movie's picture
[00:56] <daftykins> speaking of magic, i must make my words disappear from your very eyes!
[00:56] <daftykins> g'night all :D
[00:56] <diddledan> :-o
[00:56] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[00:56] <diddledan> but I just woke up!
[00:56] <ali1234> i should make a gadget to measure display latency
[00:56] <ali1234> i bet loads of gamers would buy it
[00:57] <daftykins> www.displaylag.com might be of interest, heard it mentioned somewhere recently
[00:57] <ali1234> and i bet proper ones are expensive
[00:57] <diddledan> gamers seem to obsess over 10ms vs 5ms
[00:57] <ali1234> i reckon i could do it on an arduino
[00:57] <diddledan> 100ms is equivalent to "instant" in human scales
[00:57] <ali1234> no it isn't lol
[00:58] <Azelphur> diddledan: indeed that's bad >.<
[00:58] <zmoylan-pi> just put some static on a screen and you will see how sharp or blurred it is.
[00:58] <Azelphur> diddledan: try playing a piano on 100ms
[00:58] <Azelphur> I have, it's like being under the damned speech jammer
[00:58] <ali1234> it's more like 25ms +/- 10ms
[00:59] <diddledan> google have measured it - they claim that if an effect occurs within 100ms of an action then people perceive it as instantaneous
[00:59] <zmoylan-pi> i used to play a game on a stop watch at school. start and stop as fast as possible.  i could easily to 7ms but after a few hours of playing spectrum games could occasionly get down to 3ms
[00:59] <ali1234> diddledan: for a single event, sure
[01:00] <ali1234> example given by azelphur of playing the piano is a good one. it's ver different when you're also dealing with delayed past events while entering new ones
[01:00] <zmoylan-pi> of course this was in the day of joystick wagglers so very fast alternate keys was important
[01:00] <ali1234> and playing a game is more like playing the piano than "waiting for a website to do something" (which is i assume what google were testing)
[01:00]  * diddledan waggles his joystick
[01:00] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: your fault!
[01:01] <zmoylan-pi> i blame daley thompsons decatholon
[01:01] <diddledan> yeah webpage load was the thing google were measuring
[01:02] <ali1234> i was actually playing a video game the other day and got hit by this. had to click comething N times, but the game was lagging and the "click" sound effect actually being delayed made it almost impossible to click the right number of times
[01:03] <zmoylan-pi> probably loading the click from hard drive...
[01:03] <diddledan> it needs to save to disc on every click :-p
[01:03] <diddledan> realtime world-saves ftw
[01:04] <ali1234> pretty much, it was a bloated minecraft world
[01:04] <diddledan> hah
[01:04] <ali1234> java garbage collector sucks
[01:04] <diddledan> minecraft is terrible for efficient working
[01:04] <ali1234> "let's never free anything until we hit the memory limit"
[01:05] <ali1234> i should make a website to demonstrate this effect
[01:05] <diddledan> one such example is the requirement to load an entire chunk off the server even though you can't see it all
[01:05] <ali1234> "click the button 10 times" ... "you failed"
[01:05] <diddledan> loaded just-in-case
[01:05] <zmoylan-pi> they could learn about optimisation from 8bit games :-)
[01:05] <ali1234> diddledan: chunks aren't that big though... the bigger problem is java doesn't immediately free them when minecraft unloads them
[01:05] <diddledan> yeah those 8bit programmers were true geniuses
[01:06] <diddledan> cartridges forced strange methods of optimisation so I read
[01:06] <zmoylan-pi> big blocks of memory are slow to unload when memory is completely full
[01:07] <zmoylan-pi> there's a great video on the game elite and how they squashed all the game into a tiny amount of memory that is worth watching
[01:07] <diddledan> I never have understood delayed garbage collectors on-top of the system memory allocator
[01:08] <zmoylan-pi> draw the screen while loading the game then throw out that code and never overwrite those sections that are the ship
[01:08] <diddledan> I get the point of delayed garbage collection by the system but to add it on-top of another memory allocator seems.. weird
[01:08] <ali1234> the logic is that some operating systems have really bad allocators, so you should write one that's a tiny bit better than the absolute worst, and then force everyone to use it
[01:08] <diddledan> and that's why openssl is such a pig
[01:08] <ali1234> and firefox too
[01:09] <ali1234> openssl actually has a good reason, it needs to know for sure that freed memory is securely wiped
[01:09] <ali1234> oh and also Gtk+ has one of these things in it
[01:09] <diddledan> they took that requirement as carte blanche to reimplement everything themselves tho
[01:09] <zmoylan-pi> just because a language is bad doesn't mean you can't get coders who can't make it run efficently. it's just they cost a lot more
[01:11] <ali1234> it's not actually about the language... java has at least four different garbage collectors and i'm pretty sure on of them is "just directly use malloc and free"
[01:11] <ali1234> Gtk+ also has this as a debug option
[01:11] <ali1234> but it can cause programs to behave differently
[01:11] <ali1234> so you can't really use them in production
[01:11] <zmoylan-pi> true but it does seem like they picked the best way to slow down a system :-)
[01:14] <ali1234> ah the crazy allocator is in glib of course, not Gtk+
[03:50] <diddledan> catching-up on the last few episodes of "humans" - it's a really compelling story
[03:50] <diddledan> just starting ep6
[03:55] <diddledan> nearly time for morning coffee methinks
[05:03] <mapps> hello
[05:12] <diddledan> morning
[05:43] <mapps> 1 ep of izombie then bed
[05:43] <mapps> gotta be up at midday
[05:43] <mapps> picking up apartment keys at 12;30 water person coming t 1 ugh
[05:44] <mapps> got loads to move too its a right hassle
[05:48] <mapps> only diddledan up
[05:48] <mapps> no zmoylan-pi lurking?
[05:48] <mapps> :)
[05:52] <diddledan> they're lightweights
[05:54] <mapps> https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10296795_896313610394830_6540979153331699150_n.jpg?oh=5d77a32ea83c917bf15c9c6781219185&oe=5665A9BD
[05:54] <mapps> lol
[05:54] <mapps> how can someone who's a mum look and dress like that
[05:54] <mapps> just looks cheap and nasty
[05:54] <mapps> everytime i reactivate facebook i wonder if i should have
[06:15] <diddledan> stupid americans - re the teenager who took a clock to school, a police person told media: "we attempted to question the juvenile about what it was and he would simply only tell us that it was a clock" <-- turns out it was a clock
[06:15] <mapps> lol
[06:15] <mapps> who reported it
[06:15] <diddledan> who'd have thunk a teenager telling the truth
[06:15] <diddledan> a teacher called the cops on him
[06:16] <diddledan> he has also been suspended for three days despite being proven to not be a muslim terrorist
[06:16] <diddledan> criminal prosecution has not been ruled out
[06:16] <mapps> because they saw him with a clock what like he was walking around with it?
[06:17] <diddledan> he made it at home and took it to school to show his engineering teacher. a different teacher saw it and called the cops
[06:18] <mapps> ah
[06:18] <mapps> what a fool the teacher was
[06:19] <diddledan> yeah but even so the authorities are prosecuting the kid even though it was a false alarm, and he also gets three days suspension from school because meh
[06:20] <mapps> prosecuting him fr what
[06:20] <mapps> must be some reason
[06:20] <diddledan> there's a campaign site here https://www.standwithahmed.com/
[06:21] <diddledan> as far as I can tell they're prosecuting because cockmakers should be made examples of to deter future would-be clockakers
[06:22] <diddledan> basically no reason whatsoever
[06:22] <mapps> ah is that what that hashtag meant
[07:03] <MartijnV1S> ooooooh! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030s5bx
[07:08] <diddledan> ooh
[07:08] <diddledan> that looks good
[07:21] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:22] <leecowdrey_> Indeed it's a morning to you all too
[08:02] <foobarry> that clock story is bringing out the worst side of americans
[08:03] <foobarry> all the comments as usual are polarised
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> they have a different side? :P
[08:04] <diddledan> teehee: https://twitter.com/WillMcAvoyACN/status/644260578156871680
[08:25] <zmoylan-pi> i wonder if the teacher will be prosecuted for wasting police time
[08:25] <diddledan> hah
[08:25] <diddledan> last I heard they're still prosecuting the kid
[08:25] <zmoylan-pi> no all charges were dropped last i heard
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> the police said they did the right thing responding as they did and said it was a cool clock
[08:28] <bashrc_> I think that story shows that the "national security" mindsets turns adults into idiots who are either unwilling or unable to exercise critical judgement
[08:29] <zmoylan-pi> i remember when some smart add phoned in a bomb scare during my schools leaving cert exams.  they hoped to be able to look at a few books when the classes were evacuated.  all that happened was a gardai came in and checked the classes out
[08:30] <zmoylan-pi> *smart ass
[08:33] <foobarry> this could have been resolved if english teachers knew more about science
[08:33] <foobarry> or the headteacher actually spoke to the engineering teacher!
[08:36] <zmoylan-pi> i think the teacher that he brought the clock in to show advised him to hide it which suggests he thought some of the other teachers wouldn't understand or were idiots
[08:36] <jpds> zmoylan-pi: Possibly both
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> Willful ignorance.
[08:37] <zmoylan-pi> considering what they pay teachers can we expect any better?
[08:37] <foobarry> pay is not related to ability
[08:37] <jpds> What foobarry said
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> pay does decide the level of applicants to a large degree
[08:38] <foobarry> living in texas does not immediately imply you are an inbred numpty
[08:38] <foobarry> teaching is a vocation too
[08:38] <foobarry> and pay is static across the board largely
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> imply no, hint yes
[08:42] <diddledan> my sister is a teacher
[08:42] <diddledan> so poo to you
[08:42] <diddledan> she's awesome!
[08:42] <zmoylan-pi> i've had great teachers and i've had teachers who were there just to punch a clock
[08:43] <diddledan> my brother-in-law however is a business psychologist which means he's the enemy :-p
[08:43] <jpds> zmoylan-pi: Puch a WHAT?
[08:43] <Myrtti> and I've got a friend teaching science that genuinely thought that microwaving water made it bad
[08:43] <diddledan> Myrtti: oh dear
[08:43] <zmoylan-pi> they were there just to do the hours and get a pay cheque
[08:44] <zmoylan-pi> and a teacher can be fantastic in one area and a complete idiot in another
[08:45] <diddledan> there was a video I saw a couple days ago which had a teenage girl from an english speaking country that isn't the UK moaning about a language barrier when talking to someone in the UK
[08:45] <diddledan> she also moaned about how the UK being closer to the sun must be the explanation as to why something is many pounds
[08:46] <diddledan> (pounds as in cost - the english person responded to her quizzing the cost of something and she was bemused that he replied a weight)
[08:47] <jpds> diddledan: "A pound of your flesh", very Shakespearian.
[08:47] <diddledan> jpds: I bite my thumb at thee
[08:47] <Myrtti> lol
[08:47] <zmoylan-pi> i fart in your general direction
[08:47] <diddledan> lol
[08:47] <Myrtti> you all smell of elderberries
[08:47] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy4zULKFDU
[08:48] <diddledan> Myrtti: beat me
[08:57] <diddledan> hmm, it's 10:00 and I'm already hungry
[08:57]  * zmoylan-pi passes diddledan the bag of peanuts
[08:58] <diddledan> meh
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> covered in chocolate
[08:58] <diddledan> meh
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> or dry roasted
[08:58] <diddledan> now if they were raisens covered in chocolate..!
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> i'd banish you to the pits of hell for ruining good chocolate
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> :-)
[09:03] <diplo> Whats the benefit of either creating a new Volume Group or Extending an existing one with logical volumes
[09:03] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:03] <diplo> I'm not sureon best practice ?
[09:04] <diplo> I take it that adding to an existing volume group I can extend other pv's into that VG group where as if I create a new one only new PV's can be extended
[09:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Apple Dumpling Day! 😃
[09:11]  * JamesTait is stubbornly refusing to turn on the heater.
[09:15] <diplo> JamesTait: I'm the same! I was actually cold last night.. but stubborness won out
[09:15] <diplo> :)
[09:18] <JamesTait> Same here, but I'm going to grab an extra jumper!
[09:18] <diplo> 2 months to go for heating yet!
[09:24] <diddledan> I've still got a window open :-p
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> i have windows open and fan running at night [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: 12C/54F/285K/513R | Humidity: 82% | Wind Speed 8mph/13kmph
[09:27] <diddledan> I like the fresh air this time of year when I'm in bed - it reminds me of a period where I felt content despite being in the throws of deep depression (the weather reminds me of being in an adolescent psyc unit)
[09:27] <diddledan> I'm weird, what can I say :-p
[09:28] <zmoylan-pi> you fit right in here :-)
[09:28] <diddledan> teehee
[09:55] <czajkowski> anyone looking for a new role https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/98046/full-stack-python-javascript-engineer-for-seenitio
[09:56] <Laney> just found a half eaten packet of pork scratchings downstairs
[09:56] <Laney> BONUS
[09:56]  * Laney chomps
[09:57] <MooDoo> RESULT
[09:57] <davmor2> SADDO's
[09:58] <zmoylan-pi> before their expiry date? double bonus
[09:58] <zmoylan-pi> :-)
[09:59] <Laney> still crunchy
[09:59] <popey> mmmm fried fat
[09:59] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[09:59] <zmoylan-pi> nothing worse than soggy pork scratchings
[10:00] <popey> _nothing_ on earth
[10:03] <mapps> get my apartment keys in 20mins:D
[10:04] <mapps> squash anyone! hah
[10:04]  * diddledan sits on mapps
[10:04] <mapps> just hpe there's some unsecure wifi i can steal until my internet is connected
[10:04] <diddledan> howsat for squish?
[10:04] <mapps> there's places below me with it.. two cafes the gym and mcdonalds but no way they'd reach me (10th floor)
[10:05] <diddledan> ouch
[10:05] <diddledan> 10 floors is a long way up
[10:05] <mapps> indeed
[10:05] <diddledan> hopefully you've got a lift?
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> pringles can antennae?
[10:05] <mapps> yep
[10:05] <mapps> i should hope so for 1200 a month;p
[10:05] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: bonus is you get to eat the pringles first
[10:05] <diddledan> mm nummy
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> nom nom, salt & vinegar pringles
[10:06] <mapps> im off a week in november and december, might go to berlin november but december cant decide where would be nice around then
[10:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: I can't find an apple dumping song or a macdondalds apple pie volcano gif, so I'll go for this as it mentions Opples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIqSlt9PXg
[10:08] <zmoylan-pi> i haven't had a mcdonalds apple pie in decades... tempted...
[10:08] <mapps> sheesh nor have i
[10:08] <foobarry> mmm
[10:08] <mapps> im eating out a lot..too much junk food
[10:08] <foobarry> deep fried apple pie
[10:08] <mapps> ate twice at the rubbish casino the other day heh
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> ate at the casino... that sounds like a gamble... :-)
[10:11] <mapps> yea it's woeful
[10:11] <mapps> burger bacon and cheese
[10:11] <mapps> cold bacon cold cheese..yum
[10:11] <mapps> but after 1am it's the only place..the kebab shops close midnight..1 stand in the square but 1am closed to
[10:11] <mapps> *too
[10:12] <zmoylan-pi> kebab shops that close at midnight... don't they understand that's the only time they sell kebabs?!
[10:12] <mapps> :)
[10:15] <zmoylan-pi> is there no site for gibraltar that lists all the takeouts in your area and times they're open?
[10:37] <diddledan> sorry, but I feel this hasn't been posted recently enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y
[10:39] <zmoylan-pi> sees your video and raises you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs
[10:45] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:32] <diddledan> bigcalm: he's not big, and he's not calm :-p
[11:32] <bigcalm> Small yet perfectly formed
[11:33] <diddledan> except that growth on your neck
[11:33] <diddledan> oh that's your head :-p
[11:41] <davmor2> diddledan, zmoylan-pi: I see you videos and I raise you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5eMgePakk
[11:47] <bigcalm> diddledan: you're being rather rude for somebody I don't personally know. Please try not to be
[11:51] <diddledan> sorry, I come across that way I guess
[11:52] <diddledan> I promise I absolutely never ever mean offence with any of my utterances, even if I appear to the contrary
[11:54] <diddledan> davmor2: dang that's trumpy!
[11:54] <davmor2> diddledan: trumpy is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ixAfJ1LuI
[12:07] <mapps> sleep time
[12:07] <mapps> moved most my stuff in:D
[12:07] <mapps> back at old place to get some more sleep :)
[12:18] <diddledan> when did I disappear?
[12:18] <diddledan> apparently I just reconnected. random.
[12:18] <popey> you haven't yet
[12:18] <popey> i see no disconnect
[12:19] <diddledan> yeah that'll be my local-to-znc connection that died then
[12:53] <diddledan> bouncy bouncy czajkowski
[13:01] <diddledan> OMG!!! http://www.gog.com/game/starship_titanic
[13:17] <davmor2> diddledan: did you get my trupy is this video link?
[13:18] <davmor2> diddledan: also late addition to the Morning head songs today with Read all about it
[13:20] <diddledan> yup I dead
[13:21] <diddledan> did**
[13:21] <diddledan> lol @ speelign
[14:38] <Azelphur> Long shot, but copy and paste doesn't work between X screens, does anyone have a solution better than https://dpaste.de/6sRO ?
[15:33] <mapps> gah still tired
[15:33] <mapps> ;[
[15:35]  * daftykins throws a funnel and a tall red bull at mapps
[15:35] <shauno> or just go back to bed :)
[15:36]  * zmoylan-pi throws box of smarties with all the best e numbers for hyper activity at mapps
[15:54] <mapps> gotta go gym morrisons etc move last bits over
[15:54] <diddledan_> morissons in gibraltar?
[15:54] <mapps> why do all the morons put Gibraltar as where they live when they live in La Linea, clearly a big diff
[15:54] <mapps> yea
[15:54] <mapps> la linea is known as the a hole of spain
[15:55] <mapps> it's like a bombs hit it--nothing like i imagined spain to be - had only been majorca not mainland spain before
[15:55] <mapps> some days the shelves are empty diddledan as it all comes from uk
[15:55] <diddledan_> yeesh
[15:56] <diddledan_> that's sucky
[15:56] <mapps> ya like they cant have deliveries on weekends
[15:57] <mapps> sometimes like there will be no freh meat basically..even freh juice low...umm cooked meats etc
[15:59] <daftykins> that's basically how our local supermarket chain has been getting :P
[15:59] <daftykins> they sold their local warehouse so now everything is at the mercy of the seas for freight
[15:59] <diddledan_> daftykins: I guess it's an island thing
[15:59] <daftykins> :D
[16:00] <zmoylan-pi> it's a trick question gibraltar is a penninsula... :-P
[16:00] <diddledan_> o_O
[16:00] <diddledan_> I never knew
[16:02] <daftykins> mapps: i bet you can walk around that thing in half an hour :P
[16:02] <shauno> what, the morissons?
[16:02] <diddledan_> lol
[16:02] <diddledan_> morning shauno
[16:03] <shauno> o/
[16:16] <daftykins> wow that graveyard and Church is right next to the runway
[16:16] <daftykins> in Gibraltar
[16:28] <Azelphur> getting this error in wine,  "err:winediag:schan_imp_init Failed to load libgnutls, secure connections will not be available." but I've installed libgnutls >.> any ideas?
[16:29] <diddledan_> Azelphur: 64 vs 32bit?
[16:29] <Azelphur> installed all the i386 packages I could find, too
[16:30] <diddledan_> with the :i386 notation for dual-stack or the legacy method packages?
[16:30] <diddledan_> (or similar)
[16:30] <diddledan_> I forget but it might just be :386
[16:31] <Azelphur> I just grabbed every libgnutls and libgnutls:i386 package I can find
[16:31] <diddledan_> hmm
[16:31] <diddledan_> that should do it :-/
[16:33] <daftykins> ldd shed any light?
[16:45] <ali1234> wow... so QNAP NAS units appear to have a nasty bug that completely corrupts your filesystem
[16:45] <ali1234> they used the EXT3 48 bit extents patch
[16:46] <diddledan_> \o/
[16:47] <ali1234> it wwrites the block number as a u32 then a u16
[16:47] <daftykins> :S
[16:47] <daftykins> got your kernel compiled then? :)
[16:47] <ali1234> u16 being the high bits
[16:47] <ali1234> but for some reason this qnap doesn't write that u16, possibly because it is always zero
[16:48] <ali1234> so then the high 16 bits of the block number get effectively randomized
[16:48] <diddledan_> so it didn't zero them it just left a random pointer dangling when handing off to the disk?!
[16:48] <ali1234> exactly yes
[16:48] <diddledan_> that's nuts
[16:48] <ali1234> and it only happens when there's more than four extents for a file
[16:49] <ali1234> extents = what you would call fragments
[16:49] <ali1234> so it only happens when your 1TB disk gets really full of important files
[16:49] <daftykins> how many bay unit and what RAID config?
[16:49] <ali1234> it only has 1 disk in it
[16:49] <ali1234> i don't know exactly which unit, but an old one
[16:50] <diddledan_> so you're only going to hit the bug when you've got loads of data that you cannot lose
[16:50] <ali1234> diddledan yeah :(
[16:50] <ali1234> luckily it's an easy fix... just zero those bits
[16:50] <ali1234> well i hope that works anyway
[16:50] <diddledan_> fingers crossed
[16:51] <ali1234> basically ext4 didn't exist when this thing was made
[16:51] <daftykins> i've always gone Synology but always seen those QNAPs around
[16:51] <daftykins> i take it it's an abandoned unit support wise?
[16:51] <ali1234> it has a <IP_ADDRESS> kernel with the ext3 48 bit patch set, which is like ext4 alpha version before it was even called ext4
[16:51] <diddledan_> so they were trying to allow their units to cope with larger filesystems than default ext3 allowed?
[16:52] <ali1234> yeah
[16:52] <ali1234> and larger files too
[16:52] <daftykins> sounds like the kind of thing that should've been labelled beta
[16:52] <popey> i recently bought a netgear nas
[16:52] <popey> seems okay
[16:52] <ali1234> well this QNAP seemed okay for like however many years...
[16:52] <ali1234> there's file on it from 2005
[16:53] <popey> :(
[16:58] <daftykins> how do the Netgears handle the OS? the lower end 2-bay Synologys, you put them on the network with the disks in then the software gets loaded from your PC onto the disks
[16:58] <daftykins> so there's not so much built in storage for the OS portion
[17:00] <diddledan_> I know the single-drive netgears that come with the drive embedded put the OS on a linux mdraid-1 parition pair with the rest of the disk partitioned for the owner to use
[17:02] <daftykins> partition pair on single bay? 0o
[17:02] <daftykins> so they RAID-mirror in two partitions on a single physical disk?
[17:02] <diddledan_> yup
[17:02] <daftykins> that's horrible
[17:08] <Azelphur> daftykins: ldd?
[17:10] <popey> my netgear came with no disks
[17:10] <daftykins> Azelphur: don't worry, just the comment of someone who doesn't have a clue i think
[17:10] <popey> so i assume there's some onboard flash storage
[17:10] <Azelphur> lol
[17:10] <daftykins> popey: ah so it had the full web admin etc?
[17:10] <popey> yes
[17:10] <popey> quite natty
[17:10] <daftykins> the synologys just have enough to accept the OS to get thrown at it once disks are in, pretty novel
[17:12] <diddledan_> daftykins: it might be PXE-style boot-up where there is ONLY enough code to fire up the network and transfer a file and run that in-memory
[17:12] <diddledan_> PXE boot-roms are usually in the order of a couple hundred KB
[17:14] <daftykins> sounds about right
[17:14] <daftykins> enough to grab a lease then sit and wait
[17:16] <popey> the web admin thing on the netgear is quite nice
[17:16] <popey> and it can pretend to be an apple time machine target
[17:16] <popey> which is handy
[17:18] <daftykins> pretty sure they all can now
[17:19] <daftykins> seems you can even make ones that don't do it, by just mounting a disk then creating the appropriate image file
[17:19] <daftykins> ooh that reminds me, i was checking a clients backup when i saw that it'd given up since _May_
[17:19] <daftykins> nice work Time Machine
[17:24] <zmoylan-pi> did it not raise a stink when it stopped working or were those warnings ignored by user?
[17:35] <mapps> ;]
[17:35] <mapps> done most my boring chores today
[17:37] <zmoylan-pi> wax on, wax off
[17:37] <mapps> 1 case and washbasket full of stuff to take to new place
[17:38] <daftykins> :)
[17:38] <mapps> then unpack some stuff i guess
[17:38] <mapps> laptop last;D wont hve net there
[17:38] <daftykins> i think i'll be coming through Malaga in October, still a fair distance to Gib there though
[17:38] <zmoylan-pi> unless you use ryanair... :-)
[17:39] <mapps> ya
[17:39] <mapps> 1hr30 away daftykins
[17:39] <mapps> 1hr if you go like a loony
[17:40] <mapps> we had no choice that time i got our flight to prague wrong LOL
[17:40] <mapps> I' flying out of Malaga to Berlin in November :)
[17:40] <daftykins> well i don't have a license so...
[17:40] <zmoylan-pi> drive even crazier :-P
[17:42] <daftykins> haha
[17:42] <mapps> can get a taxi to Gib for 75 euros
[17:42] <mapps> best rate ive found
[17:42] <mapps> mate from casino told me of some company who do gib - malaga 75 euros
[17:43] <mapps> normally its around 125-150 been quote
[17:43] <mapps> d
[17:43] <daftykins> ouch!
[17:43] <daftykins> would be pretty sweet to see the rock
[17:43] <daftykins> you hiked it yet? :D
[17:43] <mapps> where you going?
[17:43] <daftykins> boss' flat east of Malaga
[17:43] <mapps> aha
[17:43] <daftykins> Marina del Este
[17:43] <mapps> well
[17:44] <mapps> you could get a bus from Malaga to Gib for like 6 euros?
[17:44] <mapps> and see gib for a day
[17:45] <mapps> you'll be near Puerto Banus then which the british chavs love
[17:45] <mapps> i have 0 interest in going there, it's full of thickos fake tan, kilos of makeup, payin £200 for bottles of vodka
[17:45] <mapps> blowing a weeks shop wages in a bar
[17:45] <mapps> i just wish i owned ne of these bars;)
[17:46] <mapps> Sotogrande is meant to be VERY nice though, nice area not full of tacky bars/restaurants aimed at brits
[17:47] <mapps> Puerto Banus is just Magaluf but more expensive, honestly dont see how anyone not a moron can care for it, rubbish british style bars like 'lineers'
[17:53] <daftykins> i'm not one for those kinds of scenes at all :)
[17:53] <daftykins> i'm only content coming so far south since it's winter ;D
[19:11] <ali1234> hmm. i patched debugfs to ignore the top 16 bits of any 48 bit block number - they should always be zero on a 1Tb drive anyway - and all files are now readable
[19:14] <diddledan_> nice
[19:14] <diddledan_> well done!
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's some scary stuff
[19:19] <diddledan_> that kind of fix, along with figuring out the problem, are both way beyond my skillset :-)
[20:01] <diddledan_> daftykins: you running win10? you want to reclaim space used by windows itself (about 3GB)? http://blogs.technet.com/b/mniehaus/archive/2015/09/16/windows-10-reducing-the-disk-footprint.aspx
[20:07] <daftykins> hrmm
[20:09] <daftykins> there's something that makes me feel greatly hesitant about the use of compression :)
[20:09] <diddledan_> heh
[20:10] <popey> i know that feeling, but it's odd really, given we use compression all day transparently for many critical things
[20:11] <diddledan_> you can use `compact.exe /compactos:query` to check whether your system already has the setting enabled or not
[20:14] <popey> I remember the day Windows 95 came out. I had a Toshiba CS 2100 running Windows 3.11 with a compressed drive. Took an _age_ to upgrade to Win95
[20:14] <popey> I left it at work chugging away and went home.
[20:15] <ali1234> i saw a windows server recently that had compression turned on when the drive ran out of space
[20:15] <ali1234> it took about 30 minutes to boot up
[20:16] <shauno> doublespace isn't dead?
[20:19] <ali1234> ntfs has compression built in
[20:19] <popey> Thinking about it, that toshiba was the first laptop I had which had a nipple
[20:20] <popey> kinda wish I got into Linux back then
[20:20] <shauno> I may never understand your fascination with nipples
[20:20] <popey> accuracy and lack of finger movement
[20:22] <shauno> and you didn't miss much.  I moved to linux instead of 95.  they were some dark, dark years.  I didn't find a video card with X drivers until early 2000s
[20:22] <diddledan_> lol
[20:22] <diddledan_> that's impressive
[20:24] <shauno> it really wasn't :/  I had a tseng labs card, which was meant to work with the et4000 drivers, but never did.  so I could get 640x480 with the vesa drivers, and nothing else
[20:24] <popey> Very first time I'd heard of Linux was when I worked at a college and one of the students mentioned it to me.
[20:24] <popey> I was like "pfffft whatever"
[20:25] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[20:25] <popey> word
[20:26] <bigcalm> Up
[20:26] <diddledan_> I remember quizzing the IT guy at the college I attended about their CLI interface and whether it was this new linux thing and he replied: no it's a real netware
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
[20:26] <diddledan_> as if linux was supposed to be a knockoff netware clone
[20:26] <bigcalm> intrbiz: still on for Saturday?
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yup
[20:26] <bigcalm> Yay
[20:26] <diddledan_> choochoo?
[20:26] <bigcalm> Hayley won't be joining us :(
[20:26] <popey> choo choo indeed!
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: are we meeting anywhere before hand/
[20:27] <diddledan_> have fun :-)
[20:27] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah :(
[20:27] <bigcalm> intrbiz: Some of us will be at The Mulberry in Farnham around 5/5.30 ish
[20:27] <intrbiz> okies
[20:27] <bigcalm> Food and a pint before choo choo
[20:27] <popey> pre-pint pint
[20:27] <intrbiz> yeh
[20:27] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I thought you were meeting us at Alton?
[20:28] <bigcalm> Will be grand if you do join us :)
[20:28] <diddledan_> anywho, I'm knackered. gonna go get some shuteye
[20:28] <intrbiz> bigcalm: should be in farnham, if not then alton
[20:29] <daftykins> such alien places to me, you mainlanders speak of
[20:29] <intrbiz> bigcalm: just gotta sort the timings out
[20:29] <daftykins> there's only a dry bit and a wet bit down 'ere :D
[20:43] <bigcalm> intrbiz: got a moment for some fun with ansible?
[20:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: sure
[20:43] <bigcalm> Yay
[20:44] <bigcalm> In a roll I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441053/
[20:45] <intrbiz> yeh
[20:45] <bigcalm> In a Vagrantfile I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441057/
[20:45] <bigcalm> But it's failing with
[20:45] <bigcalm> fatal: [mvp] => with_dict expects a dict
[20:46] <bigcalm> Obviously I'm doing something wrong with databases in my extra_vars, but I'm not sure what
[20:47] <intrbiz> bigcalm: try with_items rather than with_dict
[20:48] <bigcalm> Okay
[20:48] <bigcalm> fatal: [mvp] => One or more undefined variables: 'dict object' has no attribute 'value'
[20:49] <bigcalm> Should I now move to using item.name instead of item.value.name ?
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: omit the '.value'
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: eg: item.name
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: item.host
[20:50] <intrbiz> bigcalm: brb
[20:50] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441116/
[20:50] <bigcalm> K
[20:51] <bigcalm> Ah, possibly missing a module
[20:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you'll need a pre-req task along the lines of: apt-get name=python-mysqldb state=installed
[20:53] <bigcalm> Ah
[20:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: not 100% sure what the python-mysql driver package name is on ubunut
[20:53] <intrbiz> ubuntu*
[20:53] <bigcalm> I couldn't work out if the python module was needed on the host or the guest
[20:54] <bigcalm> Yeah, it's sudo apt-get install python-mysqldb
[20:55] <bigcalm> Woop!
[20:55] <bigcalm> intrbiz: thanks :)
[20:56] <intrbiz> bigcalm: working?
[20:57] <bigcalm> intrbiz: like a charm
[20:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: coolio, ansible execute the tasks locally on the target host, so you need the python drivers etc installed on the target for some of the modules
[20:58] <bigcalm> I'm enjoying converting this project from bash to ansible provisioning
[20:58] <bigcalm> intrbiz: makes sense
[21:00] <intrbiz> mmm maisel's weisse is sehr gut
[21:01] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I assume you'll be at revolution next week?
[21:01] <Azelphur> popey: was it you who had a fancy home monitoring setup so you could see the power consumption of each plug socket? curious how it's done
[21:01] <popey> not me
[21:02] <Azelphur> dam
[21:02] <Azelphur> would be cool to monitor the usage of each individual plug socket :)
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: the 3 of us will be, aye. Hayley will be all alone in the office
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: are you coming up for it?
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: and for the Rebellion the night before?
[21:03] <intrbiz> bigcalm: won't be at rebellion sadly, will be on a train somewhere
[21:03] <intrbiz> bigcalm: will be at revolution on the friday
[21:04] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[21:08] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I was planning on WFH on the 24th, but we've got a company party that afternoon, with free drinks
[21:09] <bigcalm> Doh!
[21:09] <bigcalm> Your train journey is going to be fun :P
[21:09] <intrbiz> yeh :(
[21:10] <intrbiz> gonna try and not drink too much
[21:11] <intrbiz> hmm, decisions, decision, sould I do: PostgreSQL con -> ogg camp -> SuseCon all back to back
[21:14] <bigcalm> Nutta :D
[21:15] <bigcalm> Hayley and I will be spending some of our time in the Ship and Mitre drinking strong Belgian beers over the Oggcamp weekend
[21:17] <intrbiz> bigcalm: we went to a Belgian resteraunt for lunch t'other day, 50 bottles + several taps on their menu, had some nice wit beer
[21:17] <bigcalm> :)
[21:25] <bigcalm> Any thoughts as to why this might start happening? http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441563/
[21:27] <intrbiz> bigcalm: sorry :(, not used Vagrant
[21:27] <bigcalm> Okay
[21:28] <intrbiz> bigcalm: docs for vargrant share do state: 'Vagrant Share requires an account with HashiCorp's Atlas to be used'
[21:29] <bigcalm> I don't know what that means
[21:33] <bigcalm> I'm running an old version of vagrant, yay me
[21:37] <intrbiz> bigcalm: https://atlas.hashicorp.com/
[21:37] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I was running an old version of vagrant
[21:37] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah
[21:37] <bigcalm> I don't dev from my laptop as much as I used to
[21:41] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah, desktop?
[21:41] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I use my aging T410 for everything now
[21:42] <bigcalm> intrbiz: desktop at home and desktop at work
[21:42] <bigcalm> Which sometimes bites me in the arse if I forget to check something in
[21:42] <intrbiz> bigcalm: hehe
[21:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I've recently realised how few posessions I actually need
[21:43] <bigcalm> When that happens, and I'm at home, I get Adam to turn on my workstation and then SSH in over the vpn
[21:43] <bigcalm> intrbiz: becoming a nomad?
[21:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: feels like it, yeh
[21:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: just roam from hotel to hotel. Sadly london hotels are all to variable
[21:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: and roam from pub to pub
[21:45] <intrbiz> maybe that should be crawl
[21:45] <bigcalm> ;
[21:45] <bigcalm> )
[21:51] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I do miss being able to go to Symphony Hall however
[21:51] <bigcalm> It's getting expensive there
[21:52] <intrbiz> bigcalm: at SH?
[21:52] <bigcalm> SH in the ICC?
[21:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yeh
[21:53] <bigcalm> Maybe it's just the shows that we want to go and see
[21:53] <bigcalm> Surely you have greater options down in Londinium?
[21:54] <intrbiz> bigcalm: SH is a far better venue for Classical than anything in London
[21:54] <intrbiz> bigcalm: it's rather ironic
[21:54] <dutchie> haha you wouldn't believe that if you listen to my dad
[21:54] <bigcalm> Crikey
[21:55] <intrbiz> dutchie: yeh?
[21:55] <dutchie> intrbiz: he's principal trumpet in the cbso, always complaining about how things are going downhill
[21:55] <bigcalm> cb?
[21:55] <intrbiz> dutchie: cool, its ashame that Andris left
[21:56] <dutchie> yeah, he was really good
[21:56] <intrbiz> a shame*
[21:56] <dutchie> bigcalm: city of birmingham symphony orchestra
[21:56] <bigcalm> dutchie: ta, I guessed the so ;)
[21:56] <bigcalm> cobso sounds better :P
[21:57] <intrbiz> bigcalm: :(
[21:57] <bigcalm> Anyway, time for a snooze
[21:58] <bigcalm> See you kids at the weekend :)
[21:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: cya saturday
[22:01] <dutchie> see you then too!
[22:02] <intrbiz> dutchie: are you RATing?
[22:02] <dutchie> yup
[22:02] <dutchie> hmm, i should find my ticket for that
[22:02] <intrbiz> dutchie: cool, see you too
[22:23] <mapps> back soon moving laptop so no net


[05:42] <svij> popey: can you create an meetup account for the greek community?
[05:42] <svij> (and where's mhall)
[08:40] <popey> svij: I don't know, can I?
[08:43] <svij> popey: dunno, I only remember someone from the Community Team did that, I think it was mhall, lets see when he shows up
[17:38] <mufti> hallo
[17:39] <mufti> hallo
[17:39] <mufti> ada yg on ngga >??


[14:52] <chiluk> Yo dgadomski you there?
[14:52] <dgadomski> chiluk: hey, how are you man?
[14:53] <chiluk> I'm reviewing your patch for LP# 1674680
[14:53] <chiluk> I don't think you intended to do
[14:53] <chiluk>      for conffile in \
[14:53] <chiluk> -        /etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf \
[14:54] <chiluk> that should be removing the file off the filesystem during preinst...  which I think is what you want.
[14:54] <chiluk> dgadomski: ^^
[14:54] <chiluk> and dgadomski I'm doing really well.
[14:55] <dgadomski> chiluk: I'm glad to hear that
[14:56] <dgadomski> and I you're right, I guess I went to far with eradicating rfcomm.conf
[14:56] <dgadomski> I'll fix it right away
[14:58] <chiluk> dgadomski: ... I'm trying to figure out the rm_conffile interface..
[14:58] <chiluk> I haven't played with it before.
[14:59] <dgadomski> but the intention of that part must have been to remove the file
[15:02] <dgadomski> chiluk: done, thanks for noticing it
[15:02] <chiluk> sure thing.
[17:11] <chiluk> dgadomski: ... sorry there was another upload a few seconds ago that just got pushed into artful.. I'm sponsoring for artful now.
[17:11] <chiluk> I fixed the versioning appropriately.
[18:44] <ouroumov_> Hello, can someone with the necessary LP powers set importance for this bug as "Critical" as per guidelines ? (A bug that has a severe impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users - For example, if the system fails to boot) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1047384


[04:47] <attente> happyaron: hey
[04:48] <attente> happyaron: i uploaded a modified unity-settings-daemon, unity-control-center and indicator-keyboard to the fcitx-transition ppa
[04:49] <attente> happyaron: it's got a long way to go.. but it's a start at least
[05:23] <happyaron> attente: thanks, what are the changes included?
[06:29] <didrocks> pitti: bonjour !
[06:37] <mvo> hey pitti and didrocks!
[06:37] <pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
[06:37] <pitti> hey didrocks, hallo mvo
[06:39] <didrocks> pitti: how are you?
[06:39] <larsu> good morning pitti, didrocks!
[06:39] <didrocks> hey mvo, larsu!
[06:39] <larsu> oh hi mvo
[06:40] <pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci ! j'ai mangé beaucoup de fraises à ce matin
[06:40] <pitti> hallo larsu
[06:40] <didrocks> pitti: elles étaient bonnes ?
[06:41] <pitti> didrocks: bien sûr ! we plucked them ourselves
[06:41] <didrocks> oh nice :)
[06:42] <mvo> hey larsu :)
[06:44] <didrocks> pitti: je voulais te demander (si tu as déjà rencontré cette situation) : I want to add some check after each test of all my tests. However, it's part of the test themselves (for instance, ensuring that there has been no log.warning() or log.error()), so not really for a super class running setUp() tearDown() to inherit instead of unittest. Do you know what's the most correct way to implement this?
[06:44] <didrocks> or would you just add the assert() in tearDown() of a super class?
[06:45] <pitti> didrocks: you can add the assert to tearDown(), but that will of course short-circuit any "real" cleanup that you do there
[06:45] <pitti> didrocks: so if you can live with that, it's fine
[06:48] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's part of my worrying (well, even if the failure shouldn't happen often ;) so I can live with temp files not cleaned), but if you think of no other easy way…
[06:48] <didrocks> I don't really want to decorate each test_*() :)
[06:50] <pitti> didrocks: you can clean up first, and then do the assertions
[06:52] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, will do that I guess. I another way is to use __get_attr__ I guess and match on "test_*", but unsure it worths that magic
[08:02] <Laney> hey hey hey
[08:03] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:03] <didrocks> hey Laney, salut seb128 !
[08:03] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[08:03] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:04] <Laney> nicht schlecht danke, und dir?
[08:04] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:05] <Laney> been learning to knit this morning ;-)
[08:07] <seb128> Laney, auch gut, danke ;-)
[08:08] <seb128> Laney, doing an U.K scarf for the worldcup or something? ;-)
[08:08] <Laney> haha
[08:08] <Laney> man that would involve mixing colours and everything, complex
[08:08] <seb128> hehe
[08:09] <Laney> maybe by the next world cup i might be able to do that
[08:09] <mvo> hey Laney - how come you started to learn to knit?
[08:09] <Laney> hey mvo
[08:09] <Laney> my girlfriend does it all the time
[08:09] <seb128> good morning mvo ;-)
[08:09] <Laney> so decided to teach me ...
[08:09] <mvo> nice
[08:09] <mvo> hey seb128, good morning
[08:09] <Laney> i think my technique is rubbish though
[08:09] <seb128> Laney, oh, so she might be able to knit the scarf for this one!
[08:09] <Laney> i'm getting a bit of cramp after 2 rows
[08:10] <seb128> need to train the muscles!
[08:11] <Laney> i think it's because you end up holding it too tight
[08:11] <Laney> otherwise the stitches fall off and stuff
[08:29] <Laney> looks like -next got packagekit today
[08:33] <seb128> great
[08:34] <seb128> I'm going to try that in a bit to see if that's enough to make click install out of the box
[08:55] <mhr3_> seb128, hilfe!
[08:56] <mhr3_> seb128, got an issue, i'm trying to install libunity-scopes2 which conflicts with libunity-scopes1, but when i try to remove libunity-scopes1 it's trying to remove half of unity8, even though the direct deps are just scopes
[08:57] <mhr3_> how can i see a nice graph or something which would tell me why is it doing that?
[08:58] <seb128> mhr3_, where is that new scopes2 binary?
[08:59] <mhr3_> seb128, on my machine
[08:59] <seb128> no ppa with it?
[08:59] <mhr3_> not yet
[08:59] <seb128> mhr3_, well, you can apt-cache rdepends --show-installed=yes libunity-scopes1
[08:59] <seb128> then rdepends on those results
[09:00] <seb128> but having a ppa would allow you to use apt and make debugging easier
[09:00] <Laney> does it need to conflict?
[09:00] <mhr3_> yes
[09:00] <Laney> library transitions don't usually
[09:01] <seb128> Laney, libunity-scopes1 has binaries and upstart jobs
[09:01] <seb128> that's wrong
[09:01] <mhr3_> can i force dpkg to install stuff even though it breaks something?
[09:01] <seb128> mhr3_, you should split that binary in unity-sopes and libunity-scopes2
[09:01] <seb128> mhr3_, --force-depends
[09:01] <mhr3_> we should
[09:01] <seb128> dpkg -i --force-depends deb
[09:01] <mhr3_> thanks
[09:01] <seb128> yw
[09:02] <seb128> then apt-get -f install to let apt bring back sanity
[09:02] <seb128> or try to
[10:18] <Sweet5hark> moin!
[10:19] <seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, you missed the meeting!
[10:20] <seb128> Sweet5hark, could you send a summary next time that happens and maybe state that you are not going to be able to join
[10:21] <Sweet5hark> seb128: urgh, indeed. I was so mindwrapped in the last call I completely forgot.
[10:24] <Sweet5hark> seb128: status update would have been: 4.2.5~rc2 bumped to the ppa, 4.2.4 special update prepared, 4.3.0~beta1 and 4.3.0~beta2 updated and build to the prereleases ppa. The latter still has some stability issues, which is slightly worrying. I had to temporarily disable tests and witnessed some wierd behaviour. We are still early in the cycle though.
[10:24] <Sweet5hark> seb128: really sorry about that one.
[10:25] <seb128> Sweet5hark, no worry, thanks for the update ;-)
[10:25] <seb128> no reply from infinity on the SRU build fix so far I guess?
[10:25] <Sweet5hark> seb128: that mean btw the FTBFS issue on trusty/utopic against FF30 should be resolved.
[10:27] <Sweet5hark> seb128: nope, nothing explicitly onfirmingits all good. I had a short chat with infinity after the Firefox fix -- as in "will review it now".
[10:28] <seb128> k
[10:30] <Sweet5hark> seb128: its a one line change though ;)
[10:32] <Sweet5hark> seb128: the guy on bug 1308771 wants a new binary package SRUed into trusty? What does our redtape say about that?
[10:33] <Sweet5hark> seb128: from a technical perspective its likely low risk, but ... its a new package without the MIR-dance etc.
[10:34] <seb128> Sweet5hark, is that a new source or just a new binary?
[10:35] <Sweet5hark> seb128: new binary only.
[10:36] <seb128> Sweet5hark, that doesn't need MIR or anything, looks fine to me for a SRU but you might still want to check with the SRU team what they think
[10:37] <seb128> attente, hey, seems like indicator-keyboard fails to build in utopic (could be due to the new vala version), could you have a look (that's the error the ppa had, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7663029/)
[10:37] <seb128>   VALAC    indicator_keyboard_service_vala.stamp
[10:37] <seb128> glib-2.0.vapi:967.28-967.43: error: Access to instance member `length' from nullable reference denied
[10:37] <seb128> 		if (str_array != null || str_array.length > 0 || (str_array.length == -1 && str_array[0] != null)) {
[10:37] <seb128> could be a glib issue as well
[10:37] <seb128> Laney, desrt: ^ do you know?
[10:42] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: well, we will SRU 4.2.4 now, given the latency of SRU, I think we skip 4.2.5 (PPA only), so the next earliest trusty SRU will be 4.2.6 (August, 3) or 4.2.7 (October, 20), so no hurry there.
[10:49] <Laney> seb128: looks like a vala bug
[11:01] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, ok
[11:02] <seb128> Laney, hum, k, wouldn't be vala if things would be stable and working I guess
[11:02] <Laney> indicator-keyboard turns on an experimental feature
[11:02] <Laney> which is apparently buggy with something in the glib vapi
[11:02] <Laney> gnome bug #728656
[11:03] <seb128> that was working in trusty
[11:03] <seb128> I wonder if that's a regression in vala itself
[11:03] <Laney> it is, that's what I said
[11:03] <seb128> or if glib changed and makes it unhappy
[11:03] <Laney> no
[11:03] <Laney> it is a change to the vapi
[11:03] <seb128> k
[11:05] <Sweet5hark1> ricotz: btw I just copied the 4.3.0~beta2 to libreoffice-prereleases. Note that version is still quite unstable for me (thus the disabled tests). Feel free to backport to trusty though.
[11:06] <Sweet5hark1> ricotz: _If_ you backport, I would be interested if its more stable on trusty: e.g. do the tests succeed although they fail on utopic.
[11:08] <Sweet5hark1> ricotz: Or if (simple testcase) 1/ opening writer 2/ typing "dt<F3>" for the delauft dead text crashes office like it does on utopic ;)
[11:11] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hi, i see, in case of 4.3 i will wait for the rc1 :)
[11:12] <Sweet5hark1> ricotz: which was tagged today ;) -- I will try to get a build of that still, but be aware I will be on vacation next week, so if there is no build on Friday there likely wont be one for some time ;)
[11:13] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, alright, i will keep that in mind ;)
[12:24] <desrt> seb128: looks like they're stepping up vala's null checking
[12:25] <desrt> that might be my fault -- but only very very indirectly :)
[12:25] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, the missing l10n package for 4.3b2 is intended?
[12:25] <seb128> desrt, hey
[12:25] <seb128> desrt, Laney pointed to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728656
[12:25] <ricotz> seb128, desrt, hey :)
[12:25] <seb128> desrt, do we have anyone we can ping to get vala patches reviewed? ;-)
[12:26] <Laney> it doesn't compile, as the comment notes
[12:26] <desrt> yes.  Leathalman or nemequ.
[12:26] <desrt> or ricotz sometimes :)
[12:26] <Laney> fix compiler plz
[12:26] <seb128> hey ricotz
[12:26] <desrt> poke the bug and let evan know you're in trouble
[12:26] <seb128> ricotz, ^ do you have any opinion on that bug?
[12:28] <ricotz> desrt, better test it against the broken snippet and poke nemequ
[12:28] <seb128> attente, ^ can you do the comment/poking, since it's your code, you might be in a better position to discuss the issue and possible changes or workarounds?
[12:29] <Laney> tried to work around it but all I did was create a segfault :P
[12:30] <Sweet5hark1> ricotz: pretty much. There is one in my staging ppa, if you want it. But a/ it ran out of disc space b/ at beta2 l10n is incomplete anyway, so I didnt bother too much.
[12:30] <ricotz> Sweet5hark1, ah ok
[12:31] <desrt> seb128: i poked in vala.... let's see if they have anything to say over the next littl ewhile
[12:31] <desrt> otherwise i can start looking closer myself
[12:32] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[12:32] <larsu> desrt: morning :)
[12:32] <desrt> larsu: hi :D
[12:32]  * larsu is patching gtk this afternoon
[12:36]  * didrocks streches his hairs on issubclass in python :/
[12:37] <seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-12&id=30e07a1f3df53d84e72440bde1a1bdef6db5e5d2 ... the since doesn't match the serie, not sure what's the rule for such backports?
[12:39] <larsu> seb128: ah, good point, I don't know what the rule is. Let's wait for desrt to yell at me
[12:39] <seb128> lol
[12:40] <desrt> looks good to me :)
[12:40] <desrt> i'm not sure what else you'd put there....
[12:41] <seb128> desrt, you could put 3.12.3
[12:41] <seb128> or that doesn't work?
[12:41] <seb128> desrt, it's weird to have a 3.12 release have a since that is > 3.12
[12:42] <seb128> "it's there, and yet it was added in a version newer than the one you are using and has it"
[12:42] <desrt> seb128: we only put major versions for since tags
[12:42] <desrt> and it's obviously not since 3.12
[12:42] <desrt> i guess the real answer here is "don't add API to the stable branch" :)
[12:44] <seb128> heh
[12:49]  * seb128 wonders how many lines didrocks had in buffer with that copy
[12:50] <larsu> seb128: a full jpeg, base64 encoded
[12:50] <seb128> we could be there all day long
[12:50] <seb128> didrocks, close you IRC, or reconnect!
[12:50] <larsu> ya... if only someone was operator
[12:50] <didrocks> seb128: really, still sending it for you?
[12:50] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[12:50] <larsu> didrocks: yes.
[12:50] <didrocks> tried to disconnect
[12:51] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[12:51] <seb128> that worked
[12:58] <didrocks> phew, defeated issubclass()! \o/
[12:58] <Sweet5hark1> didrocks: What was the finishing move?
[12:58] <mterry> seb128, architectures!  Can't live with em, can't live without em
[12:59] <seb128> mterry, good morning! sorry you have to wake up to that again today!
[12:59] <didrocks> Sweet5hark1: forcing with importlib reloading some modules, however, not sure it's all 100% set
[13:00] <mterry> seb128, should be an easy fix
[13:00] <seb128> mterry, ;-)
[13:00] <Sweet5hark1> seb128, ricotz: by the way, since I will be on vacation soon you might negotiate the debian sync/MIR for librevenge. ricotz wrote most of the rationale already and I dont have any powe to MIR, sponsor or sync anyway :>
[13:01] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, oh, I had a comment earlier ... is there good content is 3.4.5?
[13:01] <seb128> shrug, 4.2.5 I mean
[13:01] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, you mentioned skipping it, but 4.2.6 is going to be after LTS .1
[13:01] <seb128> so we should maybe try to get .5 in there?
[13:02] <Sweet5hark1> well, some ~100 bugfixes as usual: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.2.5/RC1 and https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.2.5/RC2
[13:02] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: but: it needs a mdds update or shipping our own copy ...
[13:03] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, well, that's going to be the same for .6 no?
[13:03] <Sweet5hark1> of course, thats also true for 4.2.6/7 but I didnt race for that SRU now for that reason.
[13:04] <seb128> shipping a copy sounds fine to me, if needed
[13:04] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: yep.
[13:04] <seb128> well, you are the one looking after lo
[13:04] <seb128> but I think having more bugfixes in the LTS .1 (which is when LTS users are prompted for upgrade) makes sense
[13:06] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: ok, well. 4.2.5~rc2 is in the PPA. Its gonna be 4.2.5 final on Thursday by upstream. If its been 2 weeks in the ppa without any reported regressions we can throw that version over the fence as SRU after my vacation.
[13:06] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, ok, your call
[13:06] <Sweet5hark1> well, maybe with the l10n stuff for swedish? dictionaries on top.
[13:09] <mterry> seb128, branch updated
[13:11] <seb128> mterry, looking
[13:12] <didrocks> ok, finally defeated now :)
[13:13] <mterry> seb128, btw, hardcoding 1 instead of using the symbol is what unity8 does.  I was trying to be more proper, this is what I get.  ;)
[13:13] <Laney> found a workaround for that vala bug btw
[13:13] <seb128> Laney, nice!
[13:13] <Laney> will update post-lunch
[13:13] <Laney> i-keyboard needs another non-null fix too
[13:14] <seb128> let's wait for attente to be around for that
[13:14] <Laney> lib/main.vala:802
[13:14] <seb128> or feel free to mp those fixes and he can review/ack them then
[13:14] <Laney> will do if someone else doesn't, that's the location
[13:14] <Laney> state can be null
[13:14] <Laney> biab
[13:16] <attente> seb128, Laney: hey
[13:17] <seb128> attente, hey
[13:17] <attente> i could just disable the experimental non-null falg
[13:17] <attente> *flag
[13:18] <seb128> well, I guess you turned that on for a reason?
[13:18] <pitti> seb128, Laney: btw, yesterday's u-next image boots fine here
[13:19] <pitti> seb128, Laney: in some way it's even more depressing as so many things (wifi, browser, weird mouse, etc.) are not yet working, but good to see Mir working :)
[13:20] <pitti> so, great job!
[13:20] <attente> only for strict null checking
[13:21] <seb128> attente, k, well your call on how you want to fix it, seems like Laney has a workaround for the vala bug, so that would work as well, let's wait for him to be back
[13:22] <seb128> pitti, wifi is just an small fix to indicator-network's upstart job, I'm going to mp that today
[13:22] <pitti> seb128: oh, nice
[13:22] <attente> oh, i see that problem
[13:22] <pitti> indeed I didn't see that at all
[13:22] <attente> i thought it was the glib vapi problem
[13:22] <pitti> seb128: do you know, is the browser not working due to being offline?
[13:22] <attente> i'll fix it
[13:23] <seb128> pitti, no, it's an issue with the elg backend and mir, chrisccoulson said he has a workaround, I tried to ping him to know when that's planned to land but he didn't pong yet
[13:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
[13:23] <seb128> attente, thanks
[13:26] <attente> happyaron: hi, the packages in the ppa just allow adding fcitx input methods the same way that ibus ones can be added
[13:28] <seb128> pitti, you can edit /usr/share/upstart/session/indicator-network.conf and change the "xubuntu-touch" to "xunity8-mir" and "start indicator-network" then
[13:28] <pitti> seb128: is there a way to get a terminal under Mir?
[13:28] <pitti> we apparnetly don't install terminal-app, or gnome-terminal
[13:33] <attente> seb128: we still need the bugzilla patch to vala though
[13:38] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[13:39] <seb128> pitti, bregma has one, I think he rebuilt the click for amd64 or something
[13:39] <seb128> attente, Laney is on that
[13:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey! how are you?
[13:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
[13:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any idea when you webbrowser-app on unity8-mir-desktop fix is going to land?
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> the unity8 fixes were going to be in the next release (ie, not the current 1.0 release which is also being pushed to trusty shortly)
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> I guess I could backport them, but they depend on other changes as well, which is why I've not done it yety
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> *yet
[13:41] <bregma> pitti, use the terminal app from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily
[13:41] <pitti> seb128: in theory, gnome-terminal should even work, no?
[13:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is the issue in unity8? I though you said it was in your bindings?
[13:41] <pitti> seb128: or does vte not get along with Mir?
[13:41] <pitti> bregma: ah, thanks
[13:42] <seb128> pitti, no it doesn't, we don't even have GTK/Mir landed yet
[13:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's right
[13:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, which one is right?
[13:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, the fixes are in oxide
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> although the bug is caused by missing features in the mir egl backend in mesa ;)
[13:43] <bregma> chrisccoulson, is there a bug files against Mir?  This is a major blocker for unity 8 on desktop
[13:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you plan to land those fixes soon?
[13:46] <seb128> pitti, oh, other desktop-next issue... what do you think we should do with langpacks there? use the touch ones?
[13:47] <pitti> seb128: if we intend this to allow installing debs, they should get the full ones IMHO
[13:48] <seb128> pitti, but are the "full ones" going to include things like the dialer or messaging app that are for unity8 only?
[13:48] <pitti> seb128: yes, they already do
[13:48] <seb128> k
[13:49] <seb128> pitti, btw, you getting the text plymouth logo is because the ubuntu-logo is not seeded (we started from the touch seed and they don't use plymouth there because it has issues on the phone stack)
[13:49] <seb128> I'm going to seed that one
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: ah, thakns
[13:50] <seb128> I just looked at that a bit earlier
[13:50] <seb128> yw!
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128, they'll end up in the archive when we branch from trunk again (ie, when the next chrome release happens). I guess they could be applied as a distro patch to utopic, but I've not applied them to the current 1.0 release branch as they depend on 2 other disruptive patches and we're close to pushing this out as a security update to trusty
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> ie, the 4 changesets to make it work in unity 8 really also depend on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/587 and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/586 to apply cleanly
[13:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know when the next branching from trunk is likely to happen?
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, quite soon according to http://www.chromium.org/developers/calendar
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> it says this week, but I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate
[13:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
[14:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that sounds fine, I just wanted to make sure it's not "going to take ages before flowing back to distro"
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it won't take ages :)
[14:15] <Laney> hey
[14:15] <seb128> Laney, wb!
[14:15] <Laney> cheers!
[14:16] <Laney> attente: yo, how's it going?
[14:16] <Laney> did you fix the line I pointed out?
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, how are you?
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, do you have some free slots to discuss online account plugin packaging issues?
[14:22] <attente> Laney: hey, thanks, i proposed it here: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/use-get-state-instead, but it still needs the upstream vala patch
[14:22] <Laney> ya
[14:22] <Laney> lemme just put my workarounded version up
[14:25] <mterry> seb128, after this landing, I'm inclined to consider turning on the wizard -- any objections?
[14:26] <seb128> mterry, I need to do another round of testing, but no objection in principle no
[14:26] <mterry> seb128, cool.  And yeah, we'd probs have extra testing before flipping that switch
[15:01] <seb128> mterry, ok, so ... could you bump your changelog to 0.3? ;-)
[15:01] <nessita> didrocks, hola! hangout link added to the invite
[15:01] <mterry> seb128, looking
[15:02] <didrocks> nessita: hey, excellent ! fetching :)
[15:02] <seb128> mterry, thanks, and sorry about that
[15:02] <seb128> mterry, in fact we had the mp in a previous silo, and we reconfigured keeping the ppa, so we had the version bumped in that landing
[15:02] <seb128> mterry, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/0.2+14.10.20140612-0ubuntu1
[15:02] <seb128> mterry, so we need to bump to 0.3 this time
[15:03] <mterry> seb128, ok, merged from trunk and bumped version
[15:03] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[15:11] <Saviq> seb128, charles, do we have an update on the session indicator for logging out?
[15:12] <seb128> Saviq, charles said earlier that he should have a fix today
[15:12] <Saviq> oh great
[15:12] <seb128> Saviq, I was pondering giving the silo back otherwise
[15:12] <charles> Saviq, I'm the holdup there. Fix should be today, as seb128 said
[15:12] <seb128> but let's see how that goes
[15:12] <Saviq> I'll rebuild unity8 there then, since we've landed things in between
[15:13] <seb128> Saviq, thanks
[15:13] <seb128> Saviq, btw, is suru ever going to land? ;-)
[15:16] <seb128> larsu, sorry, dropped your question from earlier ... are those gtk changes needed to fix the invisible gtkpopover widgets?
[15:17] <larsu> seb128: yes
[15:17] <larsu> seb128: I've linked the branches to the bug
[15:17] <seb128> larsu, ok, I'm going to backport them then
[15:17] <seb128> larsu, danke
[15:17] <larsu> seb128: actually, there'd be an easier fix, but I thought I'd do it right
[15:18] <seb128> larsu, what happens if we land the theme fix before the gtk one? does it create any other issue or just doesn't work?
[15:18] <larsu> thanks!
[15:18] <larsu> seb128: no other issue.  I'll mark the branch as abandoned
[15:20] <larsu> I hope that removes it from the list
[15:20] <larsu> oh, it already is
[15:20] <larsu> I'll delete the mr then
[15:24] <seb128> thanks
[15:26] <seb128> larsu, I did resubmit the gtk change because gtk/ubuntu is gtk2, gtk/ubuntugtk3 is gtk3, it was targetting the wrong one
[15:27] <larsu> seb128: I will never get this right :/
[15:27] <larsu> thanks for fixing it
[15:27] <seb128> larsu, not your fault, we should probably change those series and made "gtk" the default one and gtk2 the weirdly named one
[15:46] <didrocks> larsu: I don't want to tell who, but people here who-was-elected-to-be-a-manager-by-the-team used harsh words like "CI Train" bugs where it's a feature for a corner case!
[15:46] <didrocks> the system even tells you that: 2014-06-12 16:35:56,147 INFO A version in the ppa (0.2+14.10.20140611-0ubuntu1) is higher than the proposed version in bzr (0.1+14.10.20140606-0ubuntu1) (previous tests/builds failing?). Basing on that one.
[15:47] <didrocks> on https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-001-1-build/77/console, but don't look at who launched that build, it's the same unamed person who dared telling it was a possible bug in MY code! :)
[15:48] <seb128> lol
[15:49] <larsu> haha
[15:49] <seb128> didrocks, be nice, the same someone might manage to find a real bug in your code
[15:49] <seb128> wouldn't be the first time :p
[15:49] <didrocks> seb128: I would answer "not my problem anymore", you know, it's completely my behavior :)
[15:50] <seb128> heh
[16:01] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, moving here
[16:02] <kenvandine> hey
[16:02] <kenvandine> i'll be out for 2 weeks
[16:02] <seb128> kenvandine, so the issue was that unity8-desktop gets unity-control-center pulled in by libaccount-plugin
[16:02] <kenvandine> ugh
[16:02] <seb128> that's because e.g account-plugin-evernote depends on libaccount-plugin
[16:02] <seb128> could we make that a | u-s-s-o-a?
[16:03] <seb128> I saw some plugins have that
[16:03] <kenvandine> most likely...
[16:03] <seb128> but they ship some qml as well
[16:03] <seb128> which evernote doesn't do
[16:03] <kenvandine> i seem to recall some account plugins really needed that
[16:03] <kenvandine> actually, i don't think so anymore
[16:03] <kenvandine> the lib provided some of the common oauth stuff
[16:03] <kenvandine> but that got refactored out
[16:03] <seb128> so we could just add the | u-s-s-o-a there?
[16:04] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:04] <kenvandine> wb
[16:04] <kenvandine> :)
[16:04] <kenvandine> yes, that should be fine
[16:04] <kenvandine> iirc
[16:04] <seb128> kenvandine, sorry, hit ctrl-r on the wrong win
[16:04] <seb128> (hate that)
[16:04] <seb128> the oauth plugin has the same issue
[16:04] <seb128> depends on libaccount-plugin-1.0-0
[16:05] <seb128> which recommends u-c-c
[16:07] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:09] <kenvandine> seb128, you mean account-plugin-google or libaccount-plugin-google ?
[16:09] <seb128> kenvandine, account-plugin-generic-oauth
[16:10] <seb128> that depends on libaccount-plugin-1.0-0
[16:10] <seb128> which recommends unity-control-center-signon
[16:11] <kenvandine> yeah, ok i think that will work there
[16:11] <seb128> k, thanks
[16:11] <kenvandine> np
[16:13] <tsdgeos> guys, does https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/libdbusmenu-qt/build-with-clang/+merge/223507 need CI-train'ing to land? or will it just autoland?
[16:16] <seb128> tsdgeos, it needs a lander, I'm happy to do that
[16:16] <seb128> tsdgeos, would be nice to batch https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/libdbusmenu-qt/define-include-dir/+merge/223509 with it
[16:16] <tsdgeos> seb128: yeah, i'm waiting on someone with enough autority to ok the cmake version increase :D
[16:16] <tsdgeos> i was thinking on Pete
[16:17] <tsdgeos> since he is the one with the last two commits in there
[16:17] <seb128> tsdgeos, can you maybe ping him then?
[16:17] <tsdgeos> but then he's on holiday
[16:17] <seb128> oh
[16:17] <tsdgeos> until next week
[16:17] <tsdgeos> and i'm on holiday next week
[16:17] <seb128> Saviq, maybe?
[16:17] <tsdgeos> so it's a bit of a mess :D
[16:19] <tsdgeos> i'd say he's busy with more important things
[16:19] <seb128> right
[16:19] <seb128> so either we trust agateau and ack that and land it
[16:19] <tsdgeos> i kind of am too
[16:19] <tsdgeos> i'm just waiting for the phone image to install :D
[16:19] <seb128> or we land the other fix and delay that other one for another landing
[16:20] <tsdgeos> seb128: it does work, i've tried it, it's just if we're ok with dependeing in a newer cmake, i guess we are since we're shipping it
[16:20] <seb128> k
[16:20] <tsdgeos> so i'll approve i guess
[16:20] <seb128> let me approve it
[16:20] <seb128> we can always revert later if that's an issue
[16:20] <tsdgeos> cool
[16:20] <tsdgeos> tx
[16:20] <seb128> yw
[16:27] <seb128> mterry_, congrats on landing the wizard binary ;-)
[16:27] <mterry_> seb128, haha, thanks for your help
[16:28] <seb128> yw!
[16:50] <seb128> calling it a day
[16:50] <seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
[16:50] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[16:57]  * didrocks does the same
[16:57] <didrocks> see you guys :)
[16:59] <Laney> these continentals clocking off early!
[21:14] <robert_ancell> desrt, around?
[21:35] <desrt> robert_ancell: hi
[21:36] <robert_ancell> desrt, I'm blogging about GTK+ Mir, what's worth saying about the jhbuild stuff?
[21:41] <desrt> that mir is available and we're setup for when the branch lands
[21:41] <desrt> which is really the more interesting question
[21:42] <desrt> when do you think we should land the branch?
[21:42] <desrt> might make sense to land some initial version of it and keep working in the branch?
[21:42] <desrt> or switch over to master development entirely?
[21:43] <desrt> if you feel ready, we should start discussing that ...
[21:44] <robert_ancell> desrt, I guess it matters more how upstream feels about it - the branch is not particularly useful as it is, but that might not matter
[21:44] <robert_ancell> And it works better for us to be based off 3.12 because that's how we'll ship it
[21:45] <desrt> i suspect gtk won't care very much
[21:45] <robert_ancell> So we would need to maintain two branches
[21:45] <desrt> hmm
[21:46] <desrt> one thing that will not happen: landing the backend onto the existing stable branch :)
[21:47] <larsu> because how would we know which Since: tag to put on there...
[21:49] <desrt> larsu: :)
[21:49] <robert_ancell> well, yes
[21:50] <robert_ancell> desrt, can we get jhbuild to build from a branch?
[21:50] <desrt> yes
[21:50] <desrt> but if we want to take that approach then we should probably backport the mir setp to the gnome-3-12 jhbuild modulesets
[21:51] <desrt> since it builds everything out of 3.12....
[21:51] <robert_ancell> It sounds like it would make most sense to have jhbuild automatically testing against our 3.12 branch, then after 14.10 move development to master and bring the updates into ubuntu as we update GTK+
[21:51] <robert_ancell> and have jhbuild testing from trunk from then on
[21:52] <desrt> this is a bit odd
[21:52] <desrt> our intention is to maintain this upstream
[21:52] <desrt> but we lag upstream by enough that we're going to want to be doing manual merges of all the work we're doing there
[21:53] <robert_ancell> desrt, I just mean we wait one cycle before moving to master
[21:53] <desrt> we're going to have to do the work one way or the other, so why don't we just do it the usual way?  (ie: backporting)
[21:53] <robert_ancell> because there is likely to be significant changes required to backport if the GDK api changes
[21:54] <desrt> last time i checked, that wasn't the case
[21:54] <desrt> although i guess it's going to be getting worse this cycle...
[21:54] <robert_ancell> exactly
[21:54] <robert_ancell> And right now it's better to get it working well before tackling those changes
[21:54] <desrt> fair enough
[21:56] <robert_ancell> desrt, so I was going to say "we have support in jhbuild for Mir so we can automatically test our changes going forward" (+ a link to the git commit). Anything else worth mentioning?
[21:57] <desrt> not particularly
[21:57] <robert_ancell> mkay
[21:57] <desrt> thanks :)
[21:59] <robert_ancell> desrt, oh, I had another question you might know the answer to - is there a reason why we don't have a pam-xdg that starts the session bus etc rather than using Xsession?
[22:02] <desrt> because the way we do it now was the easiest way?
[22:02] <desrt> this is going to be fixed by systemd soon....
[22:02] <desrt> the bus will be at a well-known path relative to the xdg runtime dir and will be demand-activated
[22:18] <robert_ancell> desrt, so it will be controlled by logind?
[22:19] <robert_ancell> desrt, and I was wondering if that would mean we have a bus for text logins and if that's a good/bad thing
[22:19] <desrt> robert_ancell: by systemd, not logind
[22:20] <robert_ancell> desrt, there must be some interaction with logind to only allow session busses for each active session
[22:20] <desrt> robert_ancell: of course.... the xdg runtime dir doesn't even exist unless logind says it does
[22:20] <desrt> but it will be systemd holding the other end of the socket
[22:21] <robert_ancell> which part of systemd - init?
[22:21] <desrt> the session systemd instance
[22:21] <robert_ancell> ah
[22:21] <robert_ancell> k
[22:44] <desrt> X-Ubuntu-Touch=true ?
[22:44]  * desrt mumbles
[22:45] <desrt> would be better to expose this as an interface...
[22:47] <robert_ancell> desrt, that's how it is now
[22:47] <desrt> ifuncs are ruining my life :(
[22:50] <desrt> calling getenv() from inside of them appears to be a great way to confuse the libc into crashing
[22:52] <desrt> the sick thing is that i bet i could get away with opening /proc/self/environ and parsing it


[09:34] <rootB> is this
[09:34] <rootB> the MSP430 llaunchpad
[09:35] <rootB> chatroom?
[09:38] <lifeless> no
[09:38] <lifeless> see /topic
[10:19] <cjwatson> maxb: The epoch isn't in the filename because colons in filenames cause some tools to misbehave unless you take great care.
[10:20] <cjwatson> (e.g. the bit before the colon is often interpreted as a host name)
[12:12] <AlanBell> hi, is there API access to launchpad mailing lists?
[17:06]  * apw is getting "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." reports, which seems to be coming from in the middle of launchpad, not the normal oopsen, is she ailing?
[17:12] <czajkowski> apw: best to ask webops none of the lp admins will be up at this hour
[17:15] <apw> ok