[01:56] <duflu> RAOF: efifb would be covered by a Mir-side fbdev driver right?
[01:57] <RAOF> duflu: Yes.
[01:57] <duflu> Cool
[01:57] <RAOF> duflu: As long as we don't want to handle resolution changes, anything providing /dev/fb0 will do.
[01:57] <duflu> Everyone loves to hate fbdev. I'm not familiar with it so don't know why yet. But I'm not impressed at all by DRM either
[01:58] <RAOF> Well, fbdev doesn't *do* anything.
[01:58] <duflu> Just a header/API right?
[01:59] <duflu> Hmm, I didn't realize we'd miss out on mode changing. That's one benefit of SimpleDRM
[01:59] <RAOF> Right.
[01:59] <RAOF> I mean the API doesn't do anything.
[01:59] <RAOF> Other than allow you to mmap /dev/fb?, basically.
[02:00] <duflu> Yep, that's the minimum
[02:00] <duflu> (with stride and dimension info)
[02:00] <duflu> and pixel format
[02:00] <RAOF> Yeah, there are ioctls for querying those.
[02:00] <RAOF> And for uploading new 256 colour palates!
[02:01] <duflu> RAOF: Party like it's 1991
[02:01] <RAOF> Right.
[02:01] <duflu> Then again, people still use GIFs with 256-colour palettes
[02:02] <duflu> How did GIFs survive? It must have been wide-scale compatibility that made them convenient
[02:02] <duflu> That and the patent on LZW expired
[02:07] <RAOF> And a pre-calculated, per image 256-colour palate is much less offensive than a system-wide 256 colour limit.
[02:08] <duflu> I think even per image it was offensive... but became less so when we stopped measuring pixels in mm :)
[02:09] <duflu> and dithering was more effective
[02:11] <duflu> RAOF: Only one concern with raw fbdev I think... on some platforms (VMs) the default resolution isn't going to be the desired resolution. Are you saying fix that later?
[02:12] <RAOF> Yes, because we can't reasonably fix it with fbdev.
[02:12] <RAOF> The user can, however, by setting a video= kernel command line parameter.
[02:12] <duflu> Sure. Just means we've all but decided to chase fbdev before chasing SimpleDRM
[02:12] <duflu> ... or per-driver mode setting :P
[02:13] <RAOF> I don't think that we'll need to do anything to support SimpleDRM other than making mesa handle swrast.
[02:13] <RAOF> Well, and for added bonus points do a pixman-based compositor.
[02:14] <duflu> RAOF: I'll be more convinced when we have a flag to enable shm on our existing platforms for GL rendering. :)
[02:21] <RAOF> Well, that's roughly equivalent to having mesa handle swrast :)
[05:47] <RAOF> duflu: I'm really conflicted about lp:~duflu/mir/dpi. The more I think about it, the more I think DPI is the wrong thing to be exposing.
[05:48] <RAOF> duflu: Because the client wants to render on a 300DPI phone significantly different to on a 300DPI desktop display connected to that phone.
[05:48] <RAOF> s/different/differently/
[05:48] <duflu> RAOF: It's a metric both existing toolkits (GDK/GTK) need and also my geometry::Length requires to implement window frames. So we need DPI calculated at some point
[05:49] <RAOF> GTK/GDK don't really use DPI though; they use scale-factor.
[05:49] <RAOF> Or, at least, GTK apps handle DPIs significantly different to 96 extremely poorly.
[05:50] <RAOF> And I think geometry::Length is the wrong measurement.
[05:50] <RAOF> Measuring in cm-on-screen is easy, but isn't actually what you want.
[05:50] <duflu> RAOF: *Correct* apps will call gdk-screen-get-resolution to size their widgets. That returns DPI
[05:51] <duflu> RAOF: Measuring cm on screen is exactly what you want. e.g. the Unity panel is always 0.25" high
[05:51] <RAOF> duflu: *GTKs* widgets handle DPI-significantly-different-to-96 really badly.
[05:51] <RAOF> duflu: But you *don't* want the Unity panel to be 0.25" high on a phone.
[05:52] <duflu> RAOF: More importantly for buttons and text, you're talking a fixed size
[05:52] <RAOF> duflu: You want the Unity panel to appear to be the same size as if it were 0.25" on an external display.
[05:52] <duflu> RAOF: Ignore phone for the moment (since it's visually different) and consider different monitors.
[05:52] <duflu> Yes, if you're displaying a phone status bar, that's always smaller than 0.25"
[05:53] <duflu> But ideally always the same physical size
[05:53] <RAOF> Right, which is what PPD gets you.
[05:53] <RAOF> At least without actual measurements of user-distance.
[05:53] <duflu> RAOF: I've hardcoded the viewing distance in the screen perspective transformation. I'm sure with PPD we could still query DPI for easy consumption
[05:54] <duflu> RAOF: Regardless, having a DPI value is blocking WM progress
[05:54] <duflu> I need to attach a DPI value (or something) to each surface
[05:54] <RAOF> Sure!
[05:55] <duflu> ... something which is convertible to DPI without additional parameters :S
[05:55] <RAOF> I think that is actively harmful.
[05:55] <RAOF> Not very harmful, but a bit.
[05:56] <duflu> RAOF: I can make perfect DPI-scalable graphics right now, with ease. Just give me a DPI number... from somewhere :)
[05:57] <duflu> It's crazy I fought for years to get Unity7 to where it is in 14.04 and still it falls short of the basic requirements I described 2 years ago
[05:58] <duflu> RAOF: It's not strictly blocking, however everything that requires a DPI value right now would be hardcoded (e.g. 96) until a real value is available
[05:59] <RAOF> duflu: Slurp the DPI from the display, assume 64cm for external monitor and 50cm for laptop, and go :)
[05:59] <duflu> RAOF: Or... calculate it precisely using basic math :)
[05:59] <duflu> I'm happy to have a configurable scale too
[06:00] <duflu> RAOF: But a client can't tell which display it is on, so it requires the server to tell it the physical pixel info
[06:00] <RAOF> Sorry, those were viewing distances.
[06:00] <RAOF> You can easily get the DPI from the EDID.
[06:01] <RAOF> But the client can't render correctly using the DPI.
[06:01] <duflu> RAOF: It's trivial. I've been doing it for years.
[06:01] <RAOF> (Or, at least, with _just_ the DPI)
[06:01] <RAOF> EG: You've got a phone plugged into an external display. Both are 300DPI. You want the output on the external display to be significantly different to the output on the phone.
[06:02] <duflu> RAOF: OK I can add viewing distance as a parameter to geometry::Length::as_pixels but I don't think that blocks DPI work
[06:02] <RAOF> It's the same API.
[06:02] <RAOF> Or, rather, it's an API for the same purpose.
[06:03] <RAOF> Unless we add in the DPI API now, then deprecate it when we put in the proper solution.
[06:04] <RAOF> Which is viable, I guess. We're planning on breaking API, why not one more thing? :)
[06:04] <racarr__>  how about everytime you break API you also have to opaquify an existing client struct
[06:04] <RAOF> :)
[06:05] <duflu> Or fix 10 bugs :)
[06:07] <duflu> RAOF: If you can propose the more generic solution that would be great. In the mean time I'm not blocked and will just assume 96ish DPI where the value is required
[06:07] <duflu> Hmm, or is it just a second attribute?
[06:07] <duflu> mir_surface_attrib_viewing_distance
[06:08] <RAOF> It's modelable as a second attribute.
[06:09] <RAOF> As I wrote on the MP, I think the tuple {DPI, form_factor, PPD} expresses everything that a client might possibly want to know (but would prefer to not expose DPI, on the basis that clients are unlikely to use it well)
[06:09] <duflu> Which can also be assumed as a hardcoded value for now. Its later introduction doesn't change the physical size of an inch
[06:11] <duflu> RAOF: I'm also conflicted with dreams of eventually doing head tracking to update the real eye vector :)
[06:11] <RAOF> duflu: Totally possible! Laptops will ship with kinect in the not-too-distant future!
[06:11] <duflu> But that too does not change the definition of an inch
[06:11] <RAOF> duflu: But *does* change what should be rendered.
[06:12] <RAOF> It certainly doesn't change the physical DPI of the display, but the physical DPI of the display was never what you wanted in the first place; you always wanted apparent-size.
[06:13] <RAOF> Or, rather, you want the DPI in order to determine how big to draw things. You want to determine how big to draw things so that they appear to be an appropriate size to the user.
[06:13] <duflu> RAOF: Physical size is important. That dictates the reasonable minimum size of any touch-button on a phone or a big screen. In cases like that, viewing distance must be approximately equal to reach out to
[06:13] <RAOF> We could just tell you how big to draw things so that they appear to be an appropriate size.
[06:14] <RAOF> To reach out to...?
[06:15] <duflu> To physically touch. That said, design requirements change too. Like how an ipad has bigger icons to an iphone
[06:15] <duflu> You're still holding them at the same distance
[06:16] <RAOF> I don't think that's the case, actually.
[06:16] <RAOF> I think people tend to hold phones closer than tablets.
[06:17]  * duflu refuses to continue that far down the hypothetical path
[06:17] <duflu> Time to do other work
[06:17] <RAOF> (Apple at least think people hold iPhones ~25cm from their eyes, and iPads ~38cm ☺{)
[06:17] <RAOF> Yeah, certainly.
[06:18] <duflu> Well, if anyone's done the physical research then it would have been Apple
[06:18] <duflu> I find that odd
[06:18] <RAOF> Tablets are bigger :)
[06:19] <duflu> 25cm is very close. Are people blind?
[06:20]  * RAOF has just determined that he holds his phone between 28cm and 24cm away from his nose.
[06:24] <duflu> Hah, I just measured 39cm for iPhone :)
[06:26] <RAOF> Wow. That's getting pretty close to arms-length.
[06:27] <duflu> No, still pretty bent in the elbow
[06:27] <duflu> Arms length is about 60cm
[06:32] <RAOF> Dear “bzr heads”: please find that branch head you seem to have deleted somehow.
[06:40] <RAOF> Woo!
[11:17] <greyback> hey folks, quick question: for screencasting, is the intention for the screencast app to connect to the system compositor (as that is what pushes the final pixels to the screen) or to the session compositor?
[11:21] <alan_g> greyback: is that for Mir to decide? Doesn't that question come down to the needs of the screencast app? (E.g. does it screencast the user session or does it want to "cast" lock screens and switching users?
[11:21] <alan_g> )
[11:22] <alan_g> My guess would be it should be to the session server. But I'm not designing screencast. ;)
[11:22] <greyback> alan_g: fair point, I can't say what the intention was, but I can ask what he requirements for the feature were :)
[11:24] <alan_g> alf_: Mir's "screencast" should support both scenarios ^^ right? (But connecting to the system compositor ought to be privileged.)
[11:26] <alf_> alan_g: greyback: Right, you can connect to any mir server (nested or host) and get that server's output
[11:27] <alf_> alan_g: greyback: (if you have the needed priveleges of course)
[11:27] <alf_> s/priveleges/privileges/g
[11:27] <greyback> alf_: yep, that's clear. I'm trying to see how QtCompositor will work with the screencasting stuff
[11:28] <greyback> so was curious if I had to care at all (only system compositor would be used for screencasting) or if I did have to care
[11:29]  * greyback thinks he has to care :)
[11:29] <alf_> greyback: hmm, yeah, screencasting uses the DisplayBufferCompositor(Factory) interfaces currently
[11:31] <greyback> alf_: to just check I understand it, for screencasting you create a new GL context, a new renderer for that context and have it render to an FBO, which then you glReadPixels back?
[11:35] <alf_> greyback: right, except we don't glReadPixels in the server. We create a new hardware buffer to back the FBO, render into it, and send that back to the client. Then the client can do what it wants with it (our official screencasting client glReadPixels).
[11:35] <greyback> alf_: gotcha
[11:36] <greyback> alan_g: can I confirm your intention to eventually remove mir::scene::SurfaceConfigurator?
[11:39] <greyback> alan_g: and is everything wired up so I could replace my use of it with mir::scene::SurfaceObserver?
[11:40] <alan_g> greyback: Sorry that works's several levels down my stack - I need to review to give a good answer.
[11:41] <greyback> alan_g: that's ok. I'm in absolutely no rush for an answer
[11:42]  * alan_g promptly forgets about the question
[12:30] <greyback> another quick question
[12:30] <greyback>     geometry::Size size() const override;
[12:30] <greyback>     geometry::Size client_size() const override;
[12:30] <greyback> in BasicSurface
[12:31] <greyback> what is the difference exactly? One the actual geometry of the surface in pixels, the other the size it should actually be rendered at (i.e. scaled)
[12:32] <greyback> ah, never mind
[12:32] <greyback> basic_surface.cpp:    // TODO: In future when decorated, client_size() would be smaller than size
[12:34] <greyback> which troubles me, what has decoration got to do with a client's surface?
[13:00] <alan_g> greyback: You're best talking to duflu  - he's got plans in this area that mean the area of a surface Mir renders can be larger than the area the client is made aware of.
[13:00] <greyback> alan_g: indeed. Will have a chat with him
[13:10] <kgunn> 709cardinal
[13:11] <kgunn> oops wrong window
[13:15]  * greyback theorizes what kgunn was writing about in that other channel
[13:15] <kgunn> my address
[13:45] <alan_g> alf_: do you have an opinion on https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/introduce-yet-another-interface-into-frontend/+merge/218667?
[13:46] <alf_> alan_g: haven't looked yet, will do so shortly
[15:27] <josharenson> kgunn, how would you like me to proceed re: glmark2 android off-screen (or the lack thereof)
[15:28] <kgunn> josharenson: do you have an inkling of how to enable it ?
[15:28] <kgunn> josharenson: second question, does everything hit 60 fps ?
[15:28] <kgunn> on android
[15:29] <kgunn> on nexus4?
[15:29] <kgunn> (running on n10 & n7 pure droid might be interesting also)
[15:29] <josharenson> kgunn, I'll run it an see... as for enabling it, I looked for a few ways, and there wasn't anyhting easy...
[15:30] <josharenson> kgunn, you can disable vsync, but it seems to only be app side...
[15:30] <josharenson> kgunn, I'll look at the code too
[15:36] <kgunn> josharenson: thank...yeah, i don't want you to go down a rathole...but worth a look
[15:36] <josharenson> kgunn, would the on screen numbers be of value, across devices?
[15:37] <kgunn> josharenson:  i think so, it will show some relativism and effect of gpu
[15:37] <kgunn> sensitivity
[15:38] <josharenson> ok
[16:45] <josharenson> alf_ are you aware of any way to run glmark2 off screen on android? looks like its not implemented...
[16:47] <kgunn> kdub_: you back ?
[16:47] <kdub_> kgunn, yep!
[16:47] <kgunn> welcome back! hope it was a good time of
[16:47] <kgunn> off
[16:50] <kdub_> thanks!
[17:09] <kdub_> looks like time to upgrade to utopic
[17:30] <racarr__> http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/things-that-drive-me-nuts-about-opengl.html
[17:30] <racarr__> from a dude at valve, its interesting
[17:30] <racarr__> he has lots of bullet points ;)
[17:33] <racarr__> alf_: I sa you filed a bug about the custom input dispatcher fixture failure are you orking on it?
[17:33] <racarr__> I ran in to it too
[17:40] <slvn_> hello, a little question :
[17:40] <slvn_> I have ubuntu 14.04, I give a try and setup unity8 + mir
[17:41] <slvn_> My touchscreen is not used ! only my mouse is detected
[17:41] <slvn_> but I have the /dev/input/mice with receive both mouse and touchscreen information
[17:42] <slvn_> do I need to configure something special?
[17:42] <racarr__> slvn_:  :) Thanks for testing...you are the second person to bring this up so I guess I should take some time to look at it.
[17:44] <racarr__> slvn_: I think its basically just a bug on our end...
[17:44] <racarr__> for the touch devices e look for these device configuration files
[17:44] <racarr__> that arent present ont he desktop
[17:44] <slvn_> racarr__,  yes, my touchscreen is still under warranty :)
[17:45] <racarr__> I may be able to suggest a workaround
[17:45] <racarr__> if you are interested in testing
[17:45] <slvn_> racarr__, is there some configuration file that patch
[17:45] <racarr__> need just a minute or to to figure out
[17:45] <racarr__> maybe!
[17:45] <slvn_> racarr__, yes
[17:45] <racarr__> this is some code we inherited from android open source project
[17:45] <racarr__> so I have to remind myself...hat it does
[17:45] <slvn_> racarr__, I am fine to test a workaround, because my goal is to test something more complicated afterwared
[17:46] <racarr__> oh boy fun :D
[17:51] <racarr__> slvn_: Ok can you run unity8 or mir_demo_server_basic for me (make sure to run demo_server as root so it can open input, otherwise you cant quit ith ctrl+Alt+backspace)
[17:51] <racarr__> with MIR_SERVER_LEGACY_INPUT_REPORT=log
[17:51] <racarr__> slvn_: and I guess riter stdout/stderr to a file we are looking
[17:52] <racarr__> for some messages about opening input configuration files
[17:52] <racarr__> to find what it is calling your touch screen
[17:52] <racarr__> then we will make a conf file
[17:56] <racarr__> slvn_: IF you run unity8 yourself you will also need to run it as root...from a VT like sudo QT_QPA_PLATFORM=ubuntumirserver MIR_SERVER_LEGACY_INPUT_REPORT=log unity8 > input-log.txt 2>&1
[17:58] <slvn_> racarr__ of course, I need to close my X session right?
[18:00] <racarr__> slvn_: No you should be able to just run it from a VT
[18:00] <racarr__> and even switch back and forth
[18:00] <racarr__> beteen your X VT and Mir :)
[18:05] <racarr__> slvn__: Uhoh...did we kill your machine ?
[18:05] <slvn__> racarr__, yes some trouble :)
[18:06] <racarr__> hmm what happened?
[18:06] <slvn__> I probably didnt do the command correctly ...
[18:07] <racarr__> I mean ho did it break though?
[18:07] <slvn__> can you copy paste the command again (my textfile hasn't been save)
[18:07] <slvn__> mir is displayed
[18:07] <slvn__> but could get out of it
[18:07] <racarr__> oh did you forget to run as root?
[18:07] <slvn__> so I rebooted ..
[18:07] <racarr__> maybe missed the sudo
[18:08] <racarr__> sudo QT_QPA_PLATFORM=ubuntumirserver MIR_SERVER_LEGACY_INPUT_REPORT=log unity8 > log.txt 2>&1
[18:08] <racarr__> should be the stuff
[18:08] <slvn__> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<std::runtime_error> >'   what():  Error opening DRM device
[18:09] <racarr__> but it worked ithout root? Hmmm
[18:09] <racarr__> very strange...
[18:10] <racarr__> *thinks*
[18:10] <slvn__> in a terminal, doing Alt+F1
[18:10] <slvn__> in root
[18:10] <racarr__> slvn__: You mean a virtual terminal yes
[18:10] <racarr__> not a terminal in X11
[18:10] <slvn__> yes, a VT
[18:11] <slvn__> I need to reboot that in a VT
[18:11] <slvn__> hold on...
[18:11] <slvn__> I need to redoo that in a VT
[18:12] <racarr__> :)
[18:13] <slvn__> ok got it
[18:14] <racarr__> slvn__: Yay, can you put the log on a pastebin?
[18:15] <slvn__> http://pastebin.com/nBkF7dz9
[18:18] <racarr__> slvn__: Ah...hmm its actually failing earlier than I guessed
[18:18] <slvn__> I have a laptop with a trackpad + a mouse (evoluent) + a usb keyboard + an external monitor with touchscreen
[18:18] <racarr__> so I dont really have a workaround...sorry lol
[18:18] <racarr__> this is helpful though...I can see where it fails so ill look in to it and try and get something fixed
[18:20] <slvn__> racarr__, where does it fail exactly ?
[18:20] <slvn__>  in /dev/input/mice ?
[18:21] <racarr__> slvn__: Yeah around line 20
[18:21] <racarr__> its trying to get...some sort of driver info ith some sort of IOCTL Thats not supported on the desktop
[18:21] <racarr__> and apparently there is a fallback for the builtin mouse but
[18:21] <racarr__> the touchscreen just fails
[18:21] <slvn__> ok :(
[18:22] <slvn__> it is working on ubuntu 14.04, but not with unity8. though
[18:22] <racarr__> slvn__: Mm. makes sense.
[18:23] <racarr__> slvn__: I think it wont be hard to fix...if you want I can try and prepare a branch for you to test later today
[18:23] <racarr__> (I dont have a desktop touchscreen)
[18:26] <slvn__> Yes, that would be nice :)
[18:26] <slvn__> I dont know how hard this is to compile unity8
[18:26] <slvn__> +mir
[18:26] <racarr__> slvn__: Ok great. Will you idle around in the IRC channel so I can catch you sometime later today or tomorrow (I am us pacific time)
[18:26] <racarr__> or should I send you an email?
[18:27] <racarr__> or I guess we could use a launchpad bug haha
[18:27] <slvn__> I am in europe
[18:27] <slvn__> by email
[18:28] <racarr__> slvn__: Ok. Wanna pm me your email and I ill try and work on something with instructions to test this afternoon
[18:28] <slvn__> maybe we could first try the piece of could that should do the ioctl on /dev/input/*
[18:29] <racarr__> and you should get them tomorro :)
[18:29] <racarr__> yes I think hat is going on is the ioctl is to read
[18:29] <racarr__> some like, identifier tag for the device that seems to only work on android
[18:30] <racarr__> to try and load a device configuration
[18:30] <racarr__> so I think we can just build in a default touchscreen configuration
[18:30] <racarr__> which will work on the desktop
[18:50] <anpok> ha someone looked into the clang ci failures..
[18:51] <anpok> there was one error that happened on my and on alfs mp
[18:51] <anpok> could reproduce locally
[18:51] <anpok> *could not :)
[18:57] <racarr__> I havent looke dyet happened to my MP too though
[18:58] <racarr__> anpok: Hmm wait
[18:58] <racarr__> looking at the tests...
[18:58] <racarr__> can you run a server process without ac lient with our test fixture
[18:58] <racarr__> when the last client exits
[18:58] <racarr__> the server process is stopped by the fixture
[18:58] <racarr__> which is why all these input tests only set client_may_exit fence after
[18:59] <racarr__> all the expectations are validated
[18:59] <racarr__> just a guess :)
[18:59] <anpok> a failure only with clang in the bespokedisplayserver fixture based tests


[02:53] <n-iCe> hi hi
[02:53] <n-iCe> anyone around?
[11:48] <Joker2017> hello...
[11:48] <Joker2017> Newbie here. Installed Ubuntu Budgie yesterday on my laptop.
[11:49] <Joker2017> Budgie is really impressive.
[11:49] <Joker2017> quite fast and snappy.
[11:50] <fossfreedom_> Joker2017: cheers for the feedback.  Always appreciated!
[11:51] <Joker2017> thanks for this really well constructed distro.
[11:51] <fossfreedom_> :)
[11:52] <Joker2017> how is it different from Solus Budgie?
[11:53] <Joker2017> and in term of resource usage where does it rank in comparison with LXDE, XFCE and MATE?
[11:53] <fossfreedom_> size of the app repository, fixed release schedule probably the main areas of difference
[11:53] <fossfreedom_> budgie sits between xfce and gnome-shell
[11:54] <Joker2017> ok. It means it is slightly heavier than xfce?
[11:55] <Joker2017> can it be used on really old computers?
[11:55] <fossfreedom_> how old is "old"?
[11:56] <Joker2017> I have a 11 years old laptop, runs on Intel Celeron M Single core 1.5 Ghz cpu, 2 GBs RAM and 40 GBs HDD.
[11:56] <Joker2017> I have already installed 64 bit version of Ubuntu Budgie on my new laptop. Really enjoying it.
[11:57] <fossfreedom_> memory is the key here
[11:57] <fossfreedom_> so 2GB is the min spec
[11:57] <Joker2017> ok
[11:57] <fossfreedom_> the key is what you use the desktop for
[11:57] <fossfreedom_> so if you are into video editing ... the perhaps you might want to consider a better laptop
[11:57] <Joker2017> browsing, office use, multimedia. But, not for games.
[11:58] <fossfreedom_> general stuff like you say - will work nicely.
[11:58] <Joker2017> No. I use both of these laptops for basic home and office use.
[11:58] <Joker2017> ok.
[11:59] <fossfreedom_> basically try - if it works for you - great...
[11:59] <Joker2017> do all the changes made in Budgie desktop by Solus team get incorporated in Ubuntu Budgie also?
[11:59] <Joker2017> ok
[11:59] <fossfreedom_> if not ... try xfce/lxde based distros instead
[11:59] <Joker2017> ok
[11:59] <fossfreedom_> yes - same budgie-desktop code base
[12:00] <Joker2017> ok
[12:00] <Joker2017> do I need to install Ubuntu Software Centre in U Budgie?
[12:00] <Joker2017> to get more apps.
[12:01] <fossfreedom_> ubuntu budgie comes with gnome-software centre by default
[12:01] <Joker2017> ok. Installing other software centres not necessary?
[12:02] <fossfreedom_> if you are comfortable with terminal ... or use something like synaptic - you've got lots of options
[12:02] <Joker2017> I am not that comfortable with terminal.
[12:03] <Joker2017> btw, any particular advatages of Ubuntu Budgie over Solus Budgie?
[12:04] <fossfreedom_> I'm perhaps the wrong person to ask.  Try both - see what fits with you.
[12:04] <Joker2017> ok
[12:08] <Joker2017> btw, is Budgie available for 16.04.2 also?
[12:08] <fossfreedom_> yes - https://ubuntubudgie.org/downloads
[12:08] <Joker2017> ok. It is available.
[12:08] <Joker2017> thanks a lot.
[12:09] <Joker2017> of all the flavors of Ubuntu I like this a lot.
[12:09] <Joker2017> have tried lubuntu, xubuntu, unity and mate so far.
[14:18] <polibus> hi anyone have tried skippy-xd with budgie 17.04
[14:18] <polibus> ??
[14:20] <fossfreedom_> yes
[14:20] <fossfreedom_> why?
[14:22] <polibus> the mouse binding works to you??
[14:22] <fossfreedom_> never used the mouse binding - always keyboard
[14:23] <polibus> sorry not the binding to lounch skippy but the "focus" option and the other
[14:24] <fossfreedom_> I've never used skippy in anyway other than via the keyboard - so sorry, can't help here.
[14:25] <polibus> ok
[19:26] <giang> more people in gitter, right ?
[19:27] <fossfreedom> yes
[20:14] <giang> well, my friends use differient chat app, like facebook, skype
[20:14] <giang> google hangout sometimes
[20:15] <giang> so pidgin is my choice to solve that problems, one chat client to handle them all
[20:16] <giang> but pudgin is not support gitter
[20:16] <giang> fortunatetly, ubutu budgie has irc
[20:51] <fossfreedom> giang: gitter has an IRC bridge - https://irc.gitter.im/
[20:56] <giang> let me try


[00:44] <MontelEdwards> what/where would I file a bug about the karmic live CD?
[01:23] <maxb> MontelEdwards: Ideally on whichever Ubuntu package the bug relates to. People on #ubuntu-bugs might be a good bet for figuring that out if you don't know. As a last resort you could file a bug on Ubuntu in general
[01:23] <MontelEdwards> maxb, I already talked to a developer. Thanks anyways
[06:43] <RenatoSilva> If you're the owner of a project and you are working on a feature branch, there isn't a better URL than lp:~user/project/feature?
[06:44] <RenatoSilva> I mean, for trunk you just use lp:project, but for other branches you need a full URL, that's boring :(
[06:44] <RenatoSilva> I'm thinking of cerating a temporary series called 'feature'
[06:44] <spiv> RenatoSilva: The *full* URL is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/project/feature :P
[06:45] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok I want the shorter :)
[06:45] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: you can create a temporary series, if you think the feature is going to be around a long time
[06:45] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: consider though, that *two* people may be working on  the same feature
[06:45] <RenatoSilva> so?
[06:46] <RenatoSilva> I'm thinking of the series workaround just for avoiding long urls :)
[06:47] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: how often are you typing the url in?
[06:50] <thumper> RenatoSilva: I don't type my urls in most of the time
[06:50] <thumper> RenatoSilva: you can set up a default push location for your branches
[06:50] <thumper> RenatoSilva: I create a new local branch and go "bzr push"
[06:51] <thumper> RenatoSilva: and bzr knows it is "lp:~thumper/launchpad/<new branch name>"
[06:51] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: yes, I don't keep the branches locally :)
[06:51] <RenatoSilva> that's the point guys ^
[06:52] <thumper> RenatoSilva: what do you mean " I don't keep the branches locally" ?
[06:54]  * thumper goes for dinner - satay chicken :)
[06:55] <spiv> RenatoSilva: I'm curious to know what you're doing; for me creating series all the time would be much much inconvenience than very occasionally typing in a lp: branch URL.
[06:56] <JesseW> What does the "Upstream version" column mean in launchpad, e.g. on
[06:56] <JesseW>          https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt ?
[06:57] <wgrant> JesseW: The series on the upstream project that is packaged.
[06:58] <spiv> FWIW, that page looks rather different on edge.
[06:58] <wgrant> Right. The new one uses the same concept, but without the words.
[06:59] <spiv> Yeah.
[06:59] <JesseW> What's a "series" -- the apt example says "APT main series" -- this doesn't match up to anything I'm familiar with in debian (which certainly may be my ignorance)
[06:59] <RenatoSilva> thumper: when I want to work on any lp branch, I bzr branch, change, commit, push and remove local dir
[06:59] <RenatoSilva> spiv:  ^
[06:59] <wgrant> JesseW: That's a badly configured example.
[06:59] <wgrant> JesseW: It doesn't make sense.
[07:00] <wgrant> JesseW: Normally it would be something like 'APT 1.x series'
[07:00] <wgrant> APT 2.x series
[07:00] <wgrant> etc.
[07:01] <JesseW> also what is the connection between that and "apt/main" which appears when I look at the details of the link: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/apt/+edit-packaging ?
[07:01] <wgrant> apt/main == APT main series
[07:01] <wgrant> It is https://launchpad.net/apt/main
[07:02] <JesseW> *ahhh* -- thanks, that was my question.
[07:02] <lifeless> a series is a focus point for  development; its a 'well known branch'
[07:02] <JesseW> checking above url.
[07:02] <wgrant> They're linked in the new version of the page
[07:02] <lifeless> 'sid' is a series (for Debian as a whole)
[07:02] <spiv> RenatoSilva: Do you ever re-use branches, or are you creating new branches each time?
[07:03] <RenatoSilva> spiv: no man, I just don't like to keep them locally
[07:04] <wgrant> So you have this branch for this particular thing, and you remove the local copy when you finish for the day?
[07:04] <JesseW> so, why doesn't it show up in the list I get when I click on "Choose..." on +edit-packaging ?
[07:05] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: yes
[07:05] <wgrant> JesseW: I have no idea. That doesn't make sense.
[07:05] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Why?
[07:06] <JesseW> hm, I suppose I should file a bug -- in launchpad, or?
[07:06] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I don't like to keep them locally
[07:06] <wgrant> JesseW: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+filebug
[07:07] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: So you would prefer to enter the URL a few times a day rather than keep a branch on your disk?
[07:07] <RenatoSilva> yes
[07:08] <RenatoSilva> and that's why I want a short url :)
[07:09] <spiv> RenatoSilva: echo 'export short_url=lp:...' >> .bashrc,  then use "bzr branch $short_url" :P
[07:11] <JesseW> wgrant: filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/433809 thanks for the pointer.
[07:12] <JesseW> hm just testing: lp:12345 lp#6267
[07:14] <wgrant> Bug #12345
[07:14] <poolie> hm, interesting new edge homepage
[07:14] <wgrant> poolie: Yes... Ubuntu has been knocked off the front.
[07:14] <wgrant> And I don't think it's possible to get to the Code front page.
[07:17] <JesseW> so is there a way in launchpad to say: this package's upstream package's homepage (or bug-reporting URL) is X?
[07:18] <JesseW> and how does this description of a "package series" relate to that?
[07:19] <poolie> wgrant: it's a bit like "the most interesting thing about lp is our blog"
[07:19] <poolie> or "we can't think of something better to put on the homepage yet"
[07:19] <poolie> the second may be true :)
[07:20] <poolie> JesseW: yes, register a project, and then set its homepage and bug tracker
[07:20] <wgrant> poolie: That's true. It takes up a bit of space.
[07:20] <poolie> i'm not sure how you link the project and packgae though
[07:20] <poolie> and i don't think they are related
[07:22] <wgrant> JesseW: So, packages and projects are very separate entities in Launchpad. You link a package to a project with the form you linked to earlier.
[07:22] <JesseW> to a specific "series" within a project, right?
[07:22] <wgrant> JesseW: Right.
[07:23] <wgrant> It's a bit strange, but it works fairly well.
[07:23] <JesseW> and then the project entry in launchpad can link to the actual upstream project, if there is one?
[07:24] <wgrant> JesseW: That's right.
[07:24] <JesseW> the APT project lp entry doesn't seem to have such links -- how would I go about adding them?
[07:26] <JesseW> it doesn't even specify the license: https://launchpad.net/apt
[07:26] <wgrant> JesseW: It looks like only mvo can edit that.
[07:27] <JesseW> mvo?
[07:28] <wgrant> JesseW: Michael Vogt.
[07:28] <wgrant> (listed as the maintainer on that page, so he has privileges over the project)
[07:28] <JesseW> figured it out a sec after I pressed enter... ;-)
[07:28] <RenatoSilva> spiv: haha ok
[07:28] <RenatoSilva> spiv: bettern than creating a series :)
[07:28] <RenatoSilva> thank you guys, gtg
[07:30] <JesseW> sigh; and I presume he has a lot of actual work to do rather than fill in such info.  is there any thing I could do to help with getting it filled in?
[07:34] <poolie> JesseW: he'll probably do it soon (when he comes on) to help you
[07:35] <poolie> it's quicker than working around it
[07:35] <poolie> what's your end goal here?
[07:38] <JesseW> following loose strings...
[07:39] <JesseW> ...I noticed we had both debian-policy and ubuntu-policy packages, so I looked them up on lp; looking at the lp page for debian-policy, I noticed it had nothing in the upstream version column, so though I might be able to help with that...
[07:43] <JesseW> ...tried to figure out what it meant, or find docs to explain it, or how to say: "the upstream of this is the debian package with the same name"; failed; searched The Upstream Report to find a debian based package which did have a upstream link; came across the apt package; tracing the link back noticed that the lp entry for the apt project (which is different from the lp entry for apt-project, oddly) lacked mention of the li
[07:43] <JesseW> cense it was under.  That's about it.  Like I said, following loose strings.
[08:13] <JesseW> so, looking at a bug, how do I link to the upstream bug again?
[08:14] <wgrant> JesseW: 'Also affects project'
[08:14] <JesseW> ah, found it.  it's Also affects project
[08:42] <RenatoSilva> how to send files to download section?
[08:44] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Add a release in one of your project's series, and add a file in there.
[08:45] <RenatoSilva> it requires a milestone
[08:45] <wgrant> Well, a release is a released milestone.
[08:45] <RenatoSilva> there's no milestone for my releases
[08:45] <RenatoSilva> I just release it
[08:46] <RenatoSilva> so I just create a copy , ok
[08:47] <RenatoSilva> how about release candidates?
[08:47] <wgrant> Those are also releases.
[08:47] <RenatoSilva> I create milestones for them?
[08:47] <wgrant> Yes.
[08:47] <RenatoSilva> let me explain my case
[08:48] <RenatoSilva> I have sort of RC 1, 2, 3, R4, R5
[08:48] <RenatoSilva> where 1-5 are yyyy.mm.dd
[08:48] <RenatoSilva> I jsut want to put the packages into launchpad
[08:49] <RenatoSilva> they are currently at another place
[08:49] <wgrant> A release is a special case of a milestone.
[08:49] <RenatoSilva> so I create milestones for them all, and releases fro r4 and r5?
[08:49] <wgrant> So you must have a milestone for each release that needs files.
[08:49] <wgrant> Why not a release for RC[123]?
[08:49] <wgrant> A release doesn't have to be stable.
[08:49] <RenatoSilva> because they were candidates....
[08:50] <wgrant> But do they release files?
[08:50] <RenatoSilva> or milestones
[08:50] <RenatoSilva> they were beta
[08:50] <RenatoSilva> beta versions
[08:50] <wgrant> eg. bzr has 2.0rc1, 2.0rc2 releases, and a 2.0 milestone (because it's not out yet)
[08:50] <RenatoSilva> but these beta versions were candidate for releasing at that each moment
[08:51] <RenatoSilva> so a milestone is just a way of saying "hey our trunk looks nice"
[08:51] <soren> An alpha release is still a release.
[08:52] <RenatoSilva> can't recall what's alpha, worse or better than beta?
[08:52] <wgrant> Worse.
[08:52] <soren> RenatoSilva: It's worse, but it doesn't matter. That's the point.
[08:52] <soren> Any release is a realsae.
[08:52] <soren> Alphas, betas, release candidates, final.. whatever. They're all releases.
[08:52] <RenatoSilva> so milestones are not release, they're just a way of saying that the trunk is mature??? that 's it?
[08:53] <soren> You *release* something. You take what you have, and put it out there. That's what a release is.
[08:53] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: A milestone can purely a time-based target for development tasks.
[08:53] <RenatoSilva> so what are milestones exactly
[08:53] <wgrant> s/can/can be/
[08:53] <RenatoSilva>  can't get it
[08:53] <soren> Milestones are... well. milestones. :) It's a point along your development cycle.
[08:54] <RenatoSilva> milestones don't generate packages for downloading?
[08:54] <wgrant> Right. They have no real meaning in themselves.
[08:54] <soren> s/cycle/timeline/ I suppose.
[08:54] <wgrant> They are just a point in time.
[08:54] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Not magically, no.
[08:54] <soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone does not imply a release, no.
[08:54] <spiv> An arbitrary point that you assign an arbitrary label to, so you can do things like refer to it in bugs, and create download files for :)
[08:54] <RenatoSilva> but I have seen downloads like Eclipse-Galileo-M5
[08:55] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: It's up to the project's managers as to what they want to do.
[08:55] <wgrant> If they want to have releases named 'Milestone 5', that's up to them.
[08:55] <wgrant> But you can do whatever you want with milestones.
[08:55] <spm> .. or karmic koala
[08:55] <soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone /can/ involve a release. It does not /have/ to.
[08:56] <RenatoSilva> I thought milestones as worse than RC and better (or equal) than beta
[08:56] <wgrant> A milestone isn't necessarily a release.
[08:57] <wgrant> Some projects call their intermediate development snapshots 'Milestone N'. Ubuntu calls them 'Alpha N'. It's just a name.
[08:58] <soren> RenatoSilva: Figuring out if something is a milestone or a release or whatever has NOTHING to do with the quality.
[08:58] <soren> RenatoSilva: It's about its function.
[08:58] <soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone is a point in time. You can target bugs and features for milestones, for instance.
[08:59] <RenatoSilva> ok
[08:59] <soren> RenatoSilva: A release is whenever you take what you got and release it. Even if it's alpha, beta, milestone, wibble, wobble, release candidate, final, bugfix, foo, bar, or whatever type of release it is.
[08:59] <RenatoSilva> but if is release or not does have to do with quality
[08:59] <soren> NO!
[08:59] <soren> It still a release.
[09:00] <RenatoSilva> release stuff must be good , that's why we have e.g. feature freezes!!
[09:00] <soren> Even if it sucks, you've still released it.
[09:00] <wgrant> release != release
[09:00] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: You seem to be talking about a *stable* release. eg. 1.0
[09:00] <soren> alpha releases are still releases.
[09:00] <wgrant> Right.
[09:00] <soren> That's why they have "release" in their name :)
[09:00] <RenatoSilva> by releasing you assume it's better quality than before :) even if not true :)
[09:00] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: stable releas eyes
[09:00] <wgrant> No. That's a stable release.
[09:00] <soren> Not necessaritly.
[09:01] <wgrant> Not a release in general.
[09:01] <RenatoSilva> but usualy release just means stable release
[09:01] <wgrant> Not in this case.
[09:01] <spiv> RenatoSilva: not necessarily; sometimes people release known buggy software just for the sake of getting new features tested, or whatever.
[09:01] <RenatoSilva> unstable releases you call beta or milestone
[09:01] <wgrant> A Launchpad release could be a stable release. But it could also be an alpha release, a beta release, a release-of-the-day...
[09:01] <soren> RenatoSilva: The name. does. not. matter.
[09:02] <RenatoSilva> ok
[09:02] <soren> RenatoSilva: Again: The quality of the release does not determine whether it's a release or not.
[09:02] <spiv> RenatoSilva: some projects do nightly releases, where there's no claim regarding quality (maybe it won't even build!), just that it's current.
[09:03] <RenatoSilva> what's the diff between code release tarball and installer file? is the former source code, or is the latter .exe installers?
[09:03] <soren> RenatoSilva: Yes, pretty much.
[09:04] <RenatoSilva> I just mean that --usually-- people use release as short for stable releases, and beta/milestones/candidates for unstable, maybe not in lauchpad ok
[09:04] <RenatoSilva> soren: how about if I have a zip as install?
[09:04] <RenatoSilva> soren: what to use?
[09:04] <soren> What's in the zip
[09:05] <soren> ?
[09:05] <soren> Source code?
[09:05] <RenatoSilva> soren: not an automated installer, but not exactly "the" source code (even if actually there's no bin package -- it's python)
[09:06] <soren> Don't know.
[09:06] <RenatoSilva> it is both source code and "bin" package in one
[09:06] <spiv> RenatoSilva: You're asking about the "file type" Launchpad asks you for?  Just choose whatever will best match your users' expectations.
[09:06] <RenatoSilva> I'm asking what to fill in
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> code release tarball or installer file
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> it's unclear their meanings
[09:07] <spiv> Well, if you wanted to download this file, which would you expect it to be called?
[09:07] <spiv> If you're unsure, you may as well just flip a coin :)
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> I don't know
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> that's why I ask
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> ahahhshs
[09:08] <spiv> Because your users will be unsure too, so it won't make much difference which you choose ;)
[09:08]  * RenatoSilva doesn't have pidgin's /flip atm :D
[09:09] <soren> It's kind of hard to give you a good answer when you can't properly explain what that zip file contains.
[09:09] <RenatoSilva> the bin package
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> but OH it's not bin, it's python!
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> so bin == source code
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> please help me here
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk/2009.8.12
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> may I change Solenoid Theme 2009.8.12 to just Solenoid Theme
[09:10] <RenatoSilva> and add all versions there
[09:11] <RenatoSilva> *currently I have jsut one)
[09:12] <RenatoSilva> I don't want to create 4 milestones + 4 versions, each one with one single file
[09:12] <RenatoSilva> may I call the milestones all '2009'?
[09:28] <RenatoSilva> hum... https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk
[09:28] <RenatoSilva> done
[09:29] <spm> ** having minor codebrowse issues atm, chasing.... **
[09:34] <RenatoSilva> thanks everybody
[09:37] <RenatoSilva> when you fill milestone on bug report, is the bug happening on that milestone or is it planned to be solved at it?
[09:37] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: The latter.
[09:38] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: so I always have to deactivate released milestones?
[09:38] <wgrant> You don't, but it would make sense. Releasing a milestone normally deactivates by default, IIRC.
[09:39] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: e.g. latest release is 2009.8.18, it already happened
[09:39] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I don't have any future milestones in mind, as we say here I "let the life take me anywhere" :)
[09:40] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: so I must deactivate it...ok thanks!
[09:43] <RenatoSilva> a series is like CVS branches right?
[09:43] <lifeless> wgrant: depends on the project actually ;)
[09:43] <RenatoSilva> the idea it to support old version jsut like in CVS maintenance branches right?
[09:43] <lifeless> wgrant: scratch that
[09:43] <lifeless> [I misread]
[09:43] <RenatoSilva> *is to
[09:44] <RenatoSilva> the idea is to support old released versions just like in CVS maintenance branches right?
[09:44] <wgrant> That's one use.
[09:45] <RenatoSilva> v1, then v2, then oh some peopl still use v1, so we create a v1 maintenance branch for supporting those people
[09:45] <wgrant> Right.
[09:45] <RenatoSilva> what other use could series have?
[09:45] <wgrant> So I have my 1.x branch. It would probably have 1.0a1, 1.0a2, 1.0b1, 1.0rc1, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 releases.
[09:46] <wgrant> s/branch/series
[09:46] <wgrant> That series has my 1.x branch associated.
[09:46] <RenatoSilva> so series separate major versions?
[09:46] <wgrant> I don't know.
[09:46] <wgrant> Whatever the project owner decides.
[09:46] <wgrant> Some series of releases.
[09:46] <RenatoSilva> well it seems that it's just maintenance
[09:47] <wgrant> In most cases, yes.
[09:47] <RenatoSilva> so I have trunk
[09:47] <RenatoSilva> I just have to create anotehr series if
[09:47] <RenatoSilva> someone using old versions convince me of that, right?
[09:47] <wgrant> You don't ever *have* to. But it is probably a good idea.
[09:48] <RenatoSilva> maybe I have
[09:48] <RenatoSilva> becasue how will I deliver the fix for the old version user?
[09:48] <wgrant> Why do you need a series to do that?
[09:49] <RenatoSilva> humm, I could just add a new release + download file for that milestone, right?
[09:49] <wgrant> Right.
[09:49] <wgrant> But it is a good idea to keep seperate release series, particularly if your project is large.
[09:50] <RenatoSilva> a bit condfusing
[09:51] <RenatoSilva> it seems that trunk here is not exactly the same idea of head in cvs
[09:51] <lifeless> so don't do it
[09:51] <lifeless> trunk != HEAD
[09:51] <lifeless> trunk == MAIN
[09:51] <wgrant> I wouldn't draw analogies to CVS.
[09:51] <lifeless> trunk.revno == HEAD
[09:51] <wgrant> CVS is not the best thought out of the world's inventions.
[09:52] <RenatoSilva> so why does the default description of trunk is this:
[09:52] <RenatoSilva> The "trunk" series represents the primary line of development rather than a stable release branch. This is sometimes also called MAIN or HEAD.
[09:52] <RenatoSilva> it is describing maintenance branches
[09:52] <lifeless> because CVS users are often confused about what CVS does
[09:52] <spiv> RenatoSilva: because what people call things is not always accurate ;)
[09:52] <lifeless> and say 'HEAD' when they mean 'MAIN'
[09:52] <RenatoSilva> yeah, head can mean last rev or main branch
[09:53] <RenatoSilva> in this case main branch
[09:54] <lifeless> actually, HEAD never means a branch, except when its misused :)
[09:54] <lifeless> which is the point ;)
[09:54] <RenatoSilva> it seems to me that the choice is create maintenance branches as 1) series or 2) personal branches
[09:54] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: maybe I ask in #cvs later :)
[09:54] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: you can create series for them
[09:54] <wgrant> They are different concepts.
[09:55] <wgrant> A series can be linked to a branch.
[09:55] <lifeless> if you want folk to find them, I would create a series.
[09:55] <RenatoSilva> can, not should?
[09:55]  * wgrant dines.
[09:56] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: its your project; who are we to say what you should do?
[09:56] <RenatoSilva> so on a date-based versioning like mine, how would I call the series, by month or year or season or what :) ?
[09:57] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: ok so I want a coffee with milk please :)
[09:57] <lifeless> how would you like to call it?
[09:58] <RenatoSilva> 2009.8.18 is the latest version
[09:58] <lifeless> will you do maintenance releases ?
[09:58] <lifeless> so will there be a 2<IP_ADDRESS> ?
[09:58] <RenatoSilva> likely not, but it's possible
[09:58] <lifeless> and is 2009.8.18 released from trunk?
[09:58] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: if someone had a problem, I'd ask him to update to the latest version, and apply the fix on it
[10:00] <RenatoSilva> I've just created the project from a personal single branch, trunk is just --the-- branch, so yes, 2009.8.18 was released from trunk
[10:01] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: I just think that new versions are better than old ones, it's not a big project you know
[10:02] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: so if new versions are desirable, I like to make users migrate to new versions rather than maintaining it...
[10:04] <lifeless> so why would you want maintenance series ?
[10:04] <lifeless> if you're not planning on doing maintenance releases...
[10:05] <RenatoSilva> it's because of my versioning, it's plain, not hierarchical
[10:06] <RenatoSilva> you can imagine big diffs between 3.4 and 4.6, but not between dates
[10:06] <RenatoSilva> not --necessarily---
[10:06] <lifeless> so?
[10:08] <RenatoSilva> imagine I'm using normal versioning 1.2.3, where .3 is maintenance, so I'd create trunk, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 series right?
[10:08] <RenatoSilva> then in series 1.0 I'd have all 1.0.x milestones
[10:08] <RenatoSilva> and in 1.1 all 1.1.x ms and so forth right
[10:09] <RenatoSilva> but how about this:
[10:09] <RenatoSilva> you put all milestones and releases under trunk series anyway
[10:10] <RenatoSilva> and just add a milestone + release for each new version you want to deliver (new features from latest version, fixes for old versions)
[10:11] <RenatoSilva> so my point is, if you can put it all in one place (series), what is the specific technical reason/advantage of cerating other separate series?
[10:12] <RenatoSilva> other than having a nice view of major versions
[11:14] <NET||abuse> huh?? tried pulling down launchpad rocketfuel-setup ,, bzr says needs version 1.16, i only have 1.13, but i'm on intrepid.. is this normal?
[11:15] <Peng_> NET||abuse: Bazaar has a quick release schedule, and Ubuntu doesn't package new major releases.
[11:15] <NET||abuse> dang, so i need to add the specific up to date ppa repo?
[11:15] <Peng_> NET||abuse: You can do that. It's no big deal. http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download
[11:16] <NET||abuse> is it safe enough to dot hat considering several other projects i'm working on have been on 1.13, and i need to keep supporting.
[11:16] <wgrant> NET||abuse: there's a bit of a bug in rocketfuel-setup at the moment. If it ends up erroring, poke me and I'll tell you how to work around it.
[11:16] <Peng_> NET||abuse: Bazaar's good about backwards compatibility.
[11:16] <wgrant> It's excellent about it, in fact. It's perfectly safe to upgrade.
[11:17] <wgrant> It won't silently make your other projects incompatible with older versions.
[11:18] <NET||abuse> ahh, well that's good.
[11:18] <NET||abuse> :)
[11:18] <NET||abuse> just getting that key installed now.
[11:18] <NET||abuse> ..., hmm, taking it's time getting key.
[11:18] <RenatoSilva> thanks everybody
[11:19] <NET||abuse> ahh, keyserver down?
[11:19] <NET||abuse> anyone else able to get the ppa key? http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index
[11:19] <NET||abuse> just timing out for me.
[11:20] <wgrant> NET||abuse: Indeed. Let's poke a sysadmin.
[11:21] <NET||abuse> cool
[11:21] <NET||abuse> can i watch? like waking bears in winter.. :P
[11:22] <NET||abuse> you prod them and their mass arrises in a blur of hair and rage...
[11:22] <NET||abuse> at least that's what the sysadmin in my last job was like.
[11:23] <NET||abuse> in fairness he was a great guy.
[11:23] <NET||abuse> anyway.. blah blah... keyserver work dang it.
[11:25] <wgrant> NET||abuse: For now use http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index instead.
[11:25] <wgrant> Yay for keyserver networks.
[11:25] <NET||abuse> hmm, ok
[11:25] <NET||abuse> that's taking it's time too,, ahhh there it goes.
[11:33] <NET||abuse> hmm, had to remove bzr-rebase{a} bzr-svn{a} python-subvertpy{u
[11:34] <wgrant> NET||abuse: There are new versions of those around in PPAs, if you need them. The versions in the Ubuntu archive use the API of the older bzr version, so won't work with the new bzr.
[11:35] <NET||abuse> hmmm bzr: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.2-0ubuntu1 is installed
[11:36] <NET||abuse> yeh, i can't get bzr to update beyond 1.13.1
[11:37] <wgrant> NET||abuse: There's no python2.6 in Intrepid...
[11:37] <NET||abuse> .... in interpid? hmm, where's my python coming ffrom then???
[11:38] <NET||abuse> wait,, i'm on jaunty, not intrepid.
[11:38] <NET||abuse> haha.
[11:38] <NET||abuse> sorry
[11:38] <NET||abuse> still.
[11:38] <wgrant> NET||abuse: What was the line you added to your sources.list?
[11:39] <wgrant> I suspect if you replace 'intrepid' with 'jaunty' there, it will work.
[11:39] <NET||abuse> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ppa/ubuntu intrepid main
[11:39] <NET||abuse> yes, it would..
[11:39] <NET||abuse> :P
[11:39] <NET||abuse> i'm tired.. long weekend.. barcamp took it out of me.
[11:40] <NET||abuse> brain sore,, alchimahol hurt it.
[11:41] <wgrant> Heh.
[11:42] <NET||abuse> hmm,,,, now    bzr-svn: Depends: bzr (< 1.18~) but 1.18-1~bazaar1~jaunty1 is installed.
[11:42] <NET||abuse> i'm using bzr-svn for one project i work on from time to time.
[11:42] <wgrant> There's a PPA for that.
[11:42]  * wgrant finds.
[11:42] <NET||abuse> haha,
[11:43] <NET||abuse> yikes
[11:43] <NET||abuse> too many ppa's
[11:44] <wgrant> NET||abuse: In fact, there's a new version of bzr-svn in the ~bzr PPA. What happens if you try that?
[11:44] <wgrant> (a simple 'apt-get install bzr-svn' should do it)
[11:45] <NET||abuse> i've been trying that,, no joy.
[11:45] <wgrant> Hmmmmmmm.
[11:46] <NET||abuse> one sec,, i was using aptitude , not apt-get
[11:46] <NET||abuse> and can't try right now,, launchpad is downloading.
[11:46] <wgrant> NET||abuse: No, that's fine.
[11:46] <wgrant> NET||abuse: Looks like that version of bzr-svn is still too out of date. Argh.
[11:46] <NET||abuse> tumm teeee tummm. gonna take some time yh :)
[11:46] <NET||abuse> oh, bzr-svn is out of lockstep with latest bzr.
[11:46] <wgrant> Oh yes. It's a fairly big tree.
[11:47] <wgrant> It'll have to download a couple of hundred megabytes.
[11:47] <NET||abuse> yikes..
[11:47] <wgrant> And then lots of dependencies after that.
[11:47] <wgrant> (although it will probably crash before it finishes grabbing the deps; that's easy to fix, fortunately)
[11:47] <NET||abuse> anyway to mirror that, i'm setting up on my local machine to play, then i'm gonna installl on a vm test development platform for configuration testing.. then again on live development machine,, i'd say the test dev platform is gonna require 3 or more runthroughs to check out fully.
[11:48] <NET||abuse> arrg?? libapache2-mod-php5 is to be removed?
[11:48] <wgrant> What are you planning to do with LP?
[11:49] <wgrant> Not sure about that one. I don't have PHP installed.
[11:49] <NET||abuse> working on using it as a code repository in work, and tempt some of the development teams into trying it out.
[11:49] <NET||abuse> they're svn centric
[11:50] <wgrant> You can't easily do that. See the fourth paragraph of https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadLicense
[11:50] <NET||abuse> so gonna coax them in to bzr and launchpad, set them up with heavy checkout's centralized branch workflow to start, in a shared repository so they can branch locally for local feature developments
[11:51] <NET||abuse> wgrant, just change the logo's?
[11:51] <wgrant> NET||abuse: All of the images.
[11:53] <NET||abuse> well, i'll have to try if i look to deploy for actual dev team use.
[11:54] <NET||abuse> i'm usually pretty good at filtering through images on sites. i just need to strip out the image files from the launchpad source and re-create them
[11:54] <NET||abuse> i have a good deal of experience doing things like that with turbo gears or django sites.
[11:55] <NET||abuse> that's a bit of a pain in the butt.. can't use launchpad in that way by default..
[11:56] <NET||abuse> would be nice to submit an image and icons set that "knock yourself out" licence as an option for launchpad.
[11:56] <wgrant> Part of the point of Launchpad is that there's only one. Much of its value is in the cross-project collaboration possibilities.
[11:56] <wgrant> So running your own is really not a good idea.
[11:56] <NET||abuse> how so?
[11:57] <NET||abuse> it's a nice interface to a project management, pqm and code repository backend, how is that ever not useful in some way?
[11:58] <wgrant> It's never not useful. It's just a lot better for everybody if people use launchpad.net.
[11:58] <NET||abuse> and you can't always push your code up to 3rd party hosted repositories.. there's times when you just have to be a bit private with your work until you get the right releases.
[11:58] <wgrant> Launchpad has private branches.
[11:59] <NET||abuse> sure, but company policy often doesn't allow for relying on externally hosted systems.
[12:00] <NET||abuse> it's not a question of the integrity of the code being compromised, so much as the business case being exposed, the terms of agreements on code that is included, etc etc..
[12:09] <maxb> Likewise. I'd love to get people at work using Launchpad Code, but no one will ever go for putting company code in the hands of a third party
[12:10] <maxb> I do wonder how long it'll be before someone starts creating a do-as-you-like image set to overlay on the Launchpad sourcecode.
[12:41] <james_w> how can you tell whether a task is series targeted in the API?
[12:41] <james_w> (bug task)
[12:43] <maxb> james_w: I saw something like that on https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib/code_snippets
[12:43] <james_w> urgh
[12:43] <james_w> thanks, but I don't think that will work
[12:44] <james_w> or at least not in a way I would be happy with
[12:44] <Phurl> hi guys
[12:44] <Phurl> we have a bunch of old strings from the albanian sq open office
[12:44] <Phurl> this is a resource we have been fighting for a long time
[12:45] <Phurl> and now we need to merge them into the latest version
[12:45] <Phurl> can you help us with that?
[12:56] <Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
[12:56] <Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
[12:58] <maxb> Phurl: Today's launchpad help contact is US-based, you might have to wait a bit for him to wake up :-)
[12:58] <Phurl> nice
[12:59] <Phurl> no problem.
[12:59] <Phurl> i have been waiting since july for this source, now we have the source. I can wait for another month to get it imported properlty
[13:01] <thekorn> james_w, maybe checking all bug_task urls for something like: re.search("\/ubuntu\/([^\/]+\/\+source)", task_url)
[13:01] <james_w> thekorn: yeah, something like that would be a little more palatable
[13:02] <james_w> the issue is more a logic flow one I think from looking at it a bit more
[13:02] <james_w> we want the non-series targeted task usually, but if there is a task targeted to the current development series we have to use that as you can't modify the status of the non-targeted task
[13:03] <james_w> which is all a bit tricky to work out as you loop over bug.bug_tasks
[13:03] <james_w> I was using related_tasks for that
[13:03] <james_w> which works
[13:03] <james_w> but also is non-empty when there is a Debian task
[13:04] <james_w> so it isn't the final answe
[13:04] <thekorn> hmm, yeah, I see
[13:04] <wgrant> james_w: ISTM that you want to expose the conjoined master on bug_task.
[13:05] <james_w> wgrant: that would be great
[13:45] <mariuz> hello , how do i a change a duplicate ?
[13:46] <mariuz> #386087 is marked as duplicate for bug #60823 but is my mistake it should be #260823
[13:47] <wgrant> mariuz: Which browser are you using?
[13:47] <mariuz> arora browser - webkit based
[13:47] <wgrant> mariuz: That's what I guessed. The link is mysteriously missing in WebKit at the moment.
[13:47] <mariuz> i use bugs.edge.launchpad.net
[13:48] <mariuz> ok thanks
[13:48] <wgrant> mariuz: Add '/+duplicate' to the end of the bug URL.
[13:57] <Laney> Is there a way to point bugs for our ubuntu-dev-tools project at the Ubuntu package?
[13:58] <Laney> fiddling the remote bug tracker info somehow
[14:01] <intellectronica> Laney: the short answer: no, there's no way to do that
[14:01] <Laney> it's a bit weird that you can't file a bug against the project directly, but you *can* add an upstream task
[14:02] <intellectronica> why is it weird?
[14:02] <Laney> it makes the upstream bug page look like it's in use
[14:03] <intellectronica> yeah, i agree that we don't make the distinction clear enough
[14:04] <geser> Laney: hmm, interesting. I wonder how bug 255099 got filed in the first place as I added the package task later
[14:04] <Laney> it would be cool if you could register remote bug trackers and then bugs.lp/project acts as a window into the specified remote tracker
[14:05] <Laney> geser: did we once have it enabled?
[14:05] <geser> I don't know, I never looked (or changed) at the project settings
[14:06] <Laney> seems not to be a problem nowadays anyway
[14:07] <Laney> anyway I guess my idea requires push support, but it should be possible currently for remotes in other parts of LP
[14:23] <flacoste> mrevell-lunch, henninge: why do we have unpublished blogs post on the edge home page?
[14:24] <flacoste> henninge: and why aren't all the featured projects displayed?
[14:25] <henninge> flacoste: the latter is fixed in this branch that I was going to as r-c for anyway ;-)
[14:25] <henninge> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~henninge/launchpad/bug-433824/+merge/12152
[14:25] <henninge> flacoste: the rist is common practice AFAIK because the blog posts are (still) hard coded into the template.
[14:26] <henninge> s/rist/first/
[14:26] <mrevell> flacoste: Hmm, normally the "what's new" would update on edge before the related blog posts were ready as the blog posts would go live at the time of the release. I guess they're more prominent in this case. I'm hoping next time round the blog posts on the home page will be  a live feed from the blog itself.
[14:26] <flacoste> mrevell: ok
[14:27] <flacoste> henninge: talk to bac for your r-c :-)
[14:27] <henninge> flacoste: ah, right ;-)
[14:27] <flacoste> i only deal with r-c this week if bac is unavailable :-)
[14:27] <henninge> np
[14:30] <bigon> is it expected that https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/748039/+listing-archive-extra get no css and stuff like that?
[14:30] <bac> henninge: please add me as a reviewer with 'release-critical' as the type and i'll look at it shortly
[14:31] <henninge> bac: thanks
[14:31] <noodles775> bigon: it's a macro that is normally only used to fill a segment of a page when you expand one of the packages at: https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa/+packages
[14:32] <noodles775> bigon: If the javascript code didn't load in time for the expander to work (ie. you were super fast with your mouse ;) ), it will link to that page.
[14:33] <noodles775> bigon: Pls let us know if you actually have a link to that page somewhere on LP - that would not be expected.
[14:33] <bigon> no no it was on a expender
[14:33] <bigon> but that kind of page is interesting to follow the build of a pkg
[14:38] <NET||abuse> in the install i get bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[14:39] <NET||abuse> looks like it's when it's trying to connect to bazaar.launchpad.net after the rocketfuel install in mostly done.
[14:40] <NET||abuse> it's had just added bazaar.launchpad.net to the rsa list of known hosts.
[14:40] <NET||abuse> is this a known issue?
[14:41] <NET||abuse> rocketfuel-get seems to do something.
[14:41] <NET||abuse> updating, or fetching revisions: Inserting stream
[14:57] <maxb> NET||abuse: My first thought would be local connectivity problems. Eliminate that first by trying some basic bzr commands
[15:23] <happyaron> is keyserver.ubuntu.com down?
[15:25] <happyaron> oh, it works now, but so slow ...
[15:37] <flacoste> danilos: are you still sitting on a blueprint branch?
[15:38] <flacoste> danilos: specification-superseding still has your name attached to it, but it didn't land?
[16:29] <doctormo> Is there any way to manage SSH keys through the launchpadlib API?
[16:31] <geser> kfogel: just curious, do you know how long it will take till the API doc on edge gets the changes to generate the toc? it would be really helpful to have it there
[16:36] <kfogel> geser: next release I think (I was just looking at that last night and almost filed a bug about it, then I realized that the live launchpadlib is probably only updated with Launchpad itself.  Fortunately the rollout is very soon now!)
[16:56] <flacoste> barry: don't forget to sign up for speciations-index on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion
[16:59] <barry> flacoste: done
[17:04] <Phurl> Your question #83410 on openoffice.org in ubuntu changed:
[17:04] <Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
[17:04] <Phurl>    Status: Open => Answered
[17:04] <Phurl> Vihar proposed the following answer:
[17:04] <Phurl> I'm bad so I'll tell You this: helping Albanians is helping the evil.
[17:04] <Phurl> WTF?!
[17:06] <garyvdm> Hi - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/merkaartor/+filebug?no-redirect  redirects me anyway....
[17:06] <garyvdm> How can I log a bug ... :-(
[17:08] <Phurl> hi all
[17:08] <Phurl> can someone tell me how do deal with this ?
[17:09] <maxb> garyvdm: Where did you get that URL from? The problem is the "jaunty" - you file bugs on a package in a distro, not a package in a series
[17:10] <maxb> But of course, it would be better that LP did something more sensible than kick you to the ubuntu wiki page
[17:10] <garyvdm> maxb - I typed it my self... I want to suggest a sru
[17:10] <maxb> garyvdm: Well, don't make up invalid URLs then :-)
[17:10] <garyvdm> maxb: let me try with outh the jaunty...
[17:10] <Phurl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/434100
[17:12] <garyvdm> maxb: actually - I did not type it, I clicked on the report bug button on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/merkaartor/ ...
[17:12] <maxb> Phurl: You might like restate your questions from earlier and ping the help contact who is now listed in the channel topic
[17:12] <Phurl> ok
[17:12] <Phurl> thanks
[17:13] <Phurl> EdwinGrubbs can you please help us import some language strings into launchpad?
 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
 https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
[17:13] <Phurl> thanks
[17:13] <EdwinGrubbs> Phurl: let me find you someone who knows more about translations than I do
[17:14] <Phurl> thanks
[17:14] <Phurl> it is an old translation
[17:14] <EdwinGrubbs> danilos, henninge: can you answer Phurl's question?
[17:14] <Phurl> but maybe we can reuse some of its strings
[17:14] <Phurl> or at least import it
[17:14] <maxb> garyvdm: Fair enough - it's a small bug in Launchpad that it doesn't preserve the ?no-redirect as it redirects from the ubuntu/jaunty to the ubuntu URL, I guess
[17:14] <Phurl> i think that alot of it can be resused
[17:15] <garyvdm> maxb: Should i log a bug?
[17:15] <maxb> Yes please
[17:15] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: Can you answer Phurl's question above?
[17:15] <Phurl> jtv, https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410 https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
[17:50] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: UTC+7.
[17:51] <Phurl> hi jtv
[17:51] <Phurl> when you are awake....
[17:52] <jtv> Phurl: I guess I am...  First thing to do is to report a troll.
[17:52] <Phurl> yes you mean the bulgarian?
[17:52] <Phurl> or me :)
[17:53] <jtv> Phurl: I'll leave that to you.  :)  Hang on, I'm going to talk to some people.
[18:03] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs, Phurl: I'm not sure but I think these questions are for the OpenOffice.org package maintainers.
[18:04] <Phurl> yes
[18:04] <Phurl> they might be
[18:04] <Phurl> but i was wondering if launchpad could do anything smart and easy with those strings
[18:04] <Phurl> cause we started the translation in launchpad
[18:05] <Phurl> and it would be nice to be able to just import those strings
[18:05] <Phurl> we are looking into the ooo route
[18:05] <Phurl> but it will be alot of work
[18:05] <Phurl> is there no magic import function? ;)
[18:39] <jtv> Phurl: I think I'm missing something...  why won't a normal import work?
[18:40] <Phurl> well this is the code from ooo v2
[18:41] <Phurl> and i want to find a way to match those strings / ids onto the new version
[18:41] <Phurl> 3.10
[18:41] <Phurl> jtatum,
[18:41] <Phurl> jtv
[18:52] <atrus> launchpad.net has been returning errors for me ALOT for the past several week or so. known issues?
[19:12] <Phurl> jtv, i guess i am going to try and do this myself
[19:13] <jtv> Phurl: it may be because of my connection problem, but I still don't know what the problem is...  can't you just upload the tarball?
[19:13] <Phurl> a tarball?
[19:13] <Phurl> jtv, i have a bunch of po files
[19:13] <Phurl> i checked them in
[19:16] <jtv> Phurl: it's limited for distro packages, but we do have upload facilities.
[19:17] <Phurl> ok
[19:17] <jtv> Oh, for distro packages it needs to be done per template, can't be done for the whole package at once.  :(
[19:17] <Phurl> ok
[19:17] <jtv> So have a look at the Launchpad Translations Tools.  Hang on, I'm digging them up.
[19:17] <Phurl> ok
[19:18] <jtv> Phurl: try this: https://launchpad.net/lp-translations-tools
[19:19] <Phurl> ok
[19:19] <Phurl> i will
[19:50] <Amaranth> Did anyone else lose the button to edit public/private status of bugs on edge? I am trying to do bug triage so have my stock replies userscript loaded but it shouldn't effect that area
[19:51] <Amaranth> To try without it I have to restart the browser (chrome) and this many launchpad tabs would take a long time to reload so I was hoping someone could confirm/deny they are seeing this
[19:52] <james_w> I have it
[19:52] <Amaranth> Alright, dang scripts :P
[19:52] <Amaranth> james_w: what URL does it go to? so I can just do it manually for now
[19:52] <Amaranth> +private or something?
[19:53] <james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kpackagekit/+bug/433187/+secrecy
[19:53] <james_w> I think
[19:53] <james_w> it actually links to ++form++ due to js
[19:53] <Amaranth> hrm
[20:11] <Phurl> jtv, I got the autotranslate going
[20:11] <Phurl> for 3.10
[20:11] <jtv> Phurl: autotranslate?
[20:11] <Phurl> yes
[20:11] <Phurl> poedit
[20:11] <Phurl> i merged the cat
[20:11] <Phurl> then imported it into poedit
[20:11] <Phurl> and now i am autotranslating the 3.10 with the 2.0 strings
[20:13] <jtv> Oh, you mean you're importing 2.0 translations into 3.10 translations?
[20:13] <jtv> Is that on the OpenOffice.org ubuntu package, or on a separate project?
[20:16] <Phurl> i got it
[20:16] <Phurl> jtv, i have now 30 000 strings translated for 3.10
[20:17] <Phurl> just pushing the version now
[20:17] <jtv> Phurl: wow, I never get over the size of that thing
[20:18] <Phurl> god
[20:18] <Phurl> https://code.launchpad.net/~kosova/shqipoffice/Handover
[20:18] <Phurl> just pushed, will be active in a second
[20:19] <Peng_> Are there any known issues with mirroring + stacking + format changes?
[21:24] <RenatoSilva> Guys how to sync two pos where one is the master po?  It seems that gettext does not allow to do this.
[21:54] <MTecknology> Does edwin grubbs come on irc?
[21:54] <MTecknology> if so, what's his nick?
[21:55] <MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: nevermind - I found you
[21:55] <MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: You think I'm an Ubuntu developer?
[21:55] <EdwinGrubbs> MTecknology: Well, I saw that you had an ubuntu.com email address. Sorry for the assumption.
[21:56] <MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: I enjoyed seeing that
[21:56] <MTecknology> I've been working toward that goal actually
[21:57] <MTecknology> I was the right person to assign it to ; just had to say hi :p
[21:57] <EdwinGrubbs> ok, cool
[22:12] <awilkins> ELFCLASS64 ; is LP 64-bit server only?
[22:12] <awilkins> I'm getting ImportError: /home/adrian/launchpad/lp-branches/devel/lib/_lsprof.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
[22:38] <Daviey> hmm.. is bzr/lp poorly?
[22:38] <Daviey> bzr: ERROR: xmlrpc protocol error connecting to https://xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net/bazaar/: 503 Service Unavailable
[22:38] <Daviey> (after bzr push)
[22:39] <maxb> awilkins: Hi. You might want to hop over to #launchpad-dev for help with LP development
[22:40] <Daviey> Are any LP admins around to check that error ^^?
[22:40] <maxb> But no, it's not 64-bit only. I'm rather puzzled how you managed to end up with any 64bit binaries if you are not using a 64bit machine!!
[22:42] <Daviey> hmm
[22:42] <Daviey> Is LP planned to be down?
[22:43] <awilkins> maxb:
[22:43] <awilkins> maxb: Ta
[22:44] <maxb> Daviey: It seems alive to me
[22:46] <Daviey> maxb: Hmm, seemed to be temp fail.. odd
[22:47] <Daviey> tried it on two seperated networks :/
[22:47] <JBLime> Question regarding permissions for translators working on Limewire projects... Without statring our own group (we are currently using the main LP translators group), can we regulate the permissions of the users, i.e. if they have the ability to overwrite the existing translations instead of only making a suggestion?
[22:48] <JBLime> I hope that's clear - I just took over the project and am learning my way around the interface. Thank you!
[23:37] <Amaranth> btw, the URL bit I was looking for before was +secrecy
[23:38] <Amaranth> it doesn't seem to show up in epiphany even though I have no user scripts there
[23:38] <Amaranth> (really late)
[23:38] <wgrant> Amaranth: Right, that icon is missing in WebKit-based browsers.
[23:38] <Amaranth> That's all I have :P
[23:39] <Amaranth> Well, I do have that broken one that doesn't work with keyboard shortcuts too
[23:40] <Amaranth> The little yellow icon shows up then goes away :/
[23:41] <bac> Amaranth: as wgrant said that's a known issue for webkit browsers.  it's so annoying that it teases you then disappears


[00:44] <cjohnston> jcastro: did you get mmy pm the other day?
[01:21] <nigelb> paultag: poke again
[01:52] <paultag> nigelb: yo
[02:01] <cjohnston> paultag: you gonna help me kick nigelb ?
[02:02]  * nhandler kicks nigelb
[02:02] <nigelb> wait, what?
[02:02] <nhandler> No clue. Just going along with everyone else ;)
[02:02] <paultag> cjohnston: haha aye
[02:03] <nigelb> nhandler: hahah
[02:03] <cjohnston> nigelb: you know why your getting kicked
[02:03] <nigelb> cjohnston: Now I remember.
[02:05] <nigelb> paultag: Was it your birthday a day or 2 back?
[02:05] <paultag> nigelb: April, hahaha
[02:05] <paultag> nigelb: my roommate changed it as a joke
[02:05] <paultag> nigelb: but thanks for the happy birthday anyway :)
[02:05]  * nhandler has a birthday coming up this weekend
[02:05] <paultag> woo!
[02:06] <nigelb> nhandler: you have many birtrhdays?
[02:06] <nigelb> :D :D
[02:06] <nhandler> nigelb: I wish ;)
[02:06] <nigelb> nhandler: hahaha
[07:36] <ara> good morning all!
[07:42] <nigelb> morning ara :)
[07:42] <ara> morning nigelb!
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:55] <kim0> morning everyone
[07:56] <nigelb> mornign dholbach, kim0 :)
[07:56] <dholbach> kim0, good morning! :)
[07:56] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[07:56] <nigelb> I'm take leaf out of your books today... working from home
[07:56] <kim0> nigelb: hey there
[07:56] <kim0> hehe
[07:58] <nigelb> kim0: hows your morning?
[07:59] <kim0> nigelb: so far so good, how about you
[08:00] <nigelb> kim0: when you start your morning with litchi ice cream you know its going to be awesome morning ;)
[08:00] <kim0> Absolutely :)
[08:00] <kim0> enjoy hehe
[08:00] <nigelb> :D
[09:34] <huats> morning
[09:36] <dholbach> hey huats
[09:37] <huats> hello dholbach
[09:38] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:39] <dholbach> hey czajkowski
[09:48] <czajkowski> bit daft to remove the http://www.ubuntu.com/UpgradeIssue  page so soon surely
[10:22] <nigelb> dholbach: taking a vacation?
[10:38] <dholbach> nigelb, in one week I'll have my last working day
[10:39] <nigelb> dholbach: \o/ I an /so/ jealous :p
[10:39] <nigelb> dholbach: so that's the important mail :D
[10:39] <nigelb> s/an/am
[10:39] <dholbach> nigelb, yes - the visa :)
[10:39] <nigelb> dholbach: where to?
[10:40] <dholbach> nigelb, I'll blog about it soon :)
[10:40] <nigelb> gah, more suspense!
[10:40] <dholbach> yeah :-D
[10:47] <czajkowski> dholbach: nice blog post
[10:49] <dholbach> thanks :-)
[11:57] <duanedesign> morning all
[14:07] <akgraner> I love the Ubuntu Community - I just got an email from a "Graner" in Brazil who uses Kubuntu :-)  How cool is that!
[14:08] <nigelb> \o/
[14:09] <akgraner> and Sherri Graner - (I guess she is big on the gaming side of IT) emailed me to say 1) there are so little Graner's in IT  and 2) there are so few women  - we need to stay in touch
[14:10] <akgraner> that was kinda cool as well
[14:11] <akgraner> I just found out my dad had a CD burner that will 11 CD's at a time and his printer prints images onto the CD - I am going over later to check this out  - I don't know how I missed this??
[14:12] <akgraner> I asked him how long he had it - 2 years :-/  Guess I have been pre-occupied
[14:15]  * akgraner goes away now - no sleep is making me way to chatty.....
[14:22] <nigelb> gah, jcastro's uds talk is really bad quality :(
[14:22] <nigelb> sound keeps breaking
[14:23]  * nigelb gives up.
[14:28] <dholbach> james_w`, I just documented https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Harvest/ReleaseProcess - I'm not sure you'll have to do a release though
[14:29] <dholbach> james_w`, I hope we'll get a team of interested harvest hackers together
[14:29] <james_w`> thanks
[14:29] <dholbach> so it's more a "future" thing
[14:50] <popey> nigelb: UDS talk?
[14:52] <nigelb> popey: gah, s/uds/debconf
[14:52] <nigelb> popey: Its a source file problem
[14:53] <nigelb> I checked the ones on blip.tv and then on the video site as well.
[14:54] <popey> :(
[14:55] <nigelb> starts out manageable and later I can't make out /anything/
[15:37] <akgraner> JFo, you around?
[15:40] <JFo> akgraner, yeah
[15:57] <doctormo> nigelb: Morning
[15:58] <nigelb> good morning doctormo :)
[16:00] <dholbach> hey jono
[16:03] <jono> hey dholbach
[16:06] <doctormo> nigelb: Just made a delicious scouse hotpot. Jono should be nostalgic.
[16:06] <jono> doctormo,  mmm hotpot
[16:06] <dholbach> james_w`, thanks for the review - I think we're about to release :)
[16:06] <nigelb> food!
[16:07] <james_w`> yay
[16:21] <doctormo> jono and nigelb: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Scouse-Hot-Pot-177527967
[16:21] <jono> doctormo, cool
[16:24] <doctormo> jono: Another busy day for you?
[16:25] <nigelb> doctormo: you're evil!
[16:25] <jono> doctormo, indeed
[16:26] <jono> every day seems to be a busy day :-)
[16:26] <doctormo> nigelb: If your coming to UDS, then it's not too hard to have me pack some up for you to try.
[16:26] <nigelb> doctormo: A *big* if
[16:26] <doctormo> nigelb: Only thing you have to be aware of is that English food isn't bland, it's just savory instead.
[16:27] <nigelb> doctormo: heh :)
[16:27] <doctormo> jono: A good and a bad thing, what are you working on today?
[16:28] <jono> doctormo, just the usual - loads of email, UDS, coordinating work, managing the team, now planning 11.04 strategy
[16:33] <doctormo> jono: I yorkshire challenge you to cook something traditional. Nothing at all to do with Ubuntu.
[16:33] <jono> doctormo, hah, I am a terrible cook
[16:34] <jono> fortunately I have a wife who is a stunning cook
[16:34] <jono> I do the dishes :-)
[16:34] <doctormo> Same here, but I still know how to make a split pea soup. Of course if all you can make is a bowl of cornflakes ;-)
[16:37] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:39] <doctormo> hey czajkowski, how ya feeling?
[16:39] <czajkowski> grand
[16:50] <AlanBell> doctormo: I keep telling nigelb he should come over for some proper English curry
[16:50] <doctormo> AlanBell: I owe you a pokadot branding?
[16:50] <czajkowski> doctormo: drove to drogheda to get the sister as she's been in bed for 3 days sick to bring her to an interview
[16:50] <czajkowski> and then bring her home
[16:50] <czajkowski> i am the best sister ever
[16:51] <nigelb> czajkowski: I tend to agree :D
[16:51] <nigelb> czajkowski: don't you even call her princess? :p
[16:51] <czajkowski> not today
[16:51] <czajkowski> she's\a bit unwell
[16:51] <doctormo> czajkowski: Aye, sounds like it an-all. I got my sister two Ubuntu memory sticks, one installed and one installer. When she visited last week.
[16:52] <czajkowski> yvonnie can use my ubuntu machines but is happy with what ever version of ms on hers
[16:52] <czajkowski> she is however loving my htc android phone, so ther is hope
[16:53] <AlanBell> doctormo: I am a little involved in pollka, but it is really elky is leading it and has the important opinions on the branding
[16:54] <doctormo> AlanBell: Do you have a link I could use?
[16:55] <AlanBell> http://pollka.net
[16:55] <AlanBell> I wanted it to run the logo vote for the uk, which closed today, here it is http://pollka.libertus.co.uk
[16:56] <AlanBell> #8 was the winner
[17:11] <doctormo> AlanBell: http://imagebin.ca/view/JMmmIgZ.html Thoughts on this design? It's lurid and bright delibratly.
[17:11] <AlanBell> looks nice to me
[17:12] <doctormo> AlanBell: Can you get that suggestion into the pollka community/elky and ask them to email me if they want the svg.
[17:12] <AlanBell> yup
[17:28] <popey> what is the purple thing supposed to be? something specific or abstract?
[17:29] <popey> a ballot box or a ticket?
[17:30] <nigelb> a ticket by the look of it :)
[17:37] <doctormo> popey: Are you fruity, tick, yep!
[17:37] <czajkowski> jono: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/08/31/loco-team-banners-for-approved-teams/
[17:38] <popey> i like it
[17:38] <pleia2> yay :)
[17:39] <czajkowski> :)
[17:49] <akgraner> jono  - http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2115
[17:50] <akgraner> as soon as it hit the forums I'll add the planet tag to it
[17:55] <JFo> It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake
[17:55] <dholbach> ok my friends, I call it a day
[17:55] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day
[17:55] <dholbach> and see you tomorrow
[17:55]  * dholbach hugs you all
[17:55] <czajkowski> JFo: you are going to rot in hell
[17:55] <akgraner> dholbach, you too!
[17:55] <czajkowski> dholbach: toodles
[17:56] <dholbach> bye akgraner, czajkowski!
[17:56] <czajkowski> dholbach: hugs
[17:56] <dholbach> :)
[17:56] <akgraner> JFo, f@#$ you!
[17:56] <JFo> lol
[17:56] <JFo> I see you riding down the road...
[17:57] <czajkowski> JFo: not feeling the love buddy, no love at all towards your music choice any more
[17:57] <JFo> heh
[17:58] <akgraner> what!
[17:59] <JFo> yeah!!!
[18:01] <czajkowski> right off again driving the sister back hoe
[18:01] <czajkowski> home
[18:27] <JFo> :-|
[22:50] <akgraner> check this out  - http://lanyrd.com/  it's a conference tracking site


[07:39] <troy_s> Where is the news?  *sigh*
[07:43] <BHSPitMonkey> Huey Lewis ran off with it I think
[08:00] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Whoa.  I'd say that dated you if I didn't know you better.
[08:02] <BHSPitMonkey> damn
[08:02] <BHSPitMonkey> I am aware of the group, though I don't know that I could identify them by music or photograph.
[08:02] <BHSPitMonkey> But uh, Sports
[08:32] <kwwii> you can look at the specs and they will show you what is going to happen for hardy (not the actual direction, but you get the point)
[08:32] <kwwii> troy_s: working on a palette (while on vacation)
[08:35] <kwwii> and with that, I am going back to bed
[10:34] <lapo> hi
[16:12] <zniavre> hello / bonjour
[16:13] <zniavre> im looking for the way to get arrow black instead of white (eg gconf-editor)
[16:13] <zniavre> http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9376/testmi7.jpg
[16:33] <troy_s> zniavre: What do you mean by arrow Black?
[16:35] <darkmatter> troy_s: I think he means the gtk-treeview
[16:36] <troy_s> darkmatter: I don't know if he is talking a cursor or the outline in AWN.  I suspect it is an AWN question really.
[16:37] <darkmatter> ahh... I thought he meant the almost invisible treeview arrows *shrug*, though could be awn
[16:39] <darkmatter> damn. I hate how half of gnome handles background pixmaps in some apps
[16:39] <darkmatter> once again, devs abuse gtk
[16:46] <darkmatter> troy_s: wanna see a piece o' crap? http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2114714649&size=o
[16:59] <zniavre> (17:33:16) troy_s: zniavre: What do you mean by arrow Black? >small arrow in gconf-editor (excuse my english i do not know the word for it)
[17:00] <zniavre> (17:36:37) darkmatter: ahh... I thought he meant the almost invisible treeview arrows >yes this one !! do you know where is the option in gtkrx for them ?
[17:53] <troy_s> Darn... missed Neil.
[17:54] <troy_s> zniavre: The arrows are controlled by the arrow 'class' in GTK.  If you use the pixmap engine (Looks like that theme might be using it) you can easily modify the arrows to meet your desire.
[17:56] <troy_s> zniavre: If the theme uses an engine, simply add the pixmap engine and only override the arrows class.
[18:05] <troy_s> kwwii: Where are the blueprint links?  Drop them into topic.
[21:38] <zniavre> troy_s: thank you , i thought it was more simple to do it
[23:23] <kwwii> troy_s: done
[23:23] <kwwii> and back to bed


[10:05] <erle-> Evolution has not been updated to 3.32 in Disco beta
[10:06] <erle-> also even the Cosmic version of Evolution is outdated (3.30.1 instead of 3.30.3)
[10:17] <acheronuk> !info evolution
[10:18] <Unit193> !info evolution unstable
[10:18] <Unit193> !info evolution disco
[10:18] <Unit193> We've pulled from experimental
[10:19] <acheronuk> umm. yeah. forget to add the disco
[10:19] <acheronuk> erle-: we have 3.32
[10:20] <erle-> oh, my fault, I confused two machines
[10:20] <erle-> the problem is on cosmic
[10:20] <acheronuk> np
[10:20] <erle-> a bug that was fixed in 3.30.3
[10:22] <erle-> this is the bug btw:
[10:22] <erle-> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution-data-server/issues/51
[10:24] <acheronuk> erle-: you interested in the version in cosmic?
[10:25] <acheronuk> LP: #1815884
[10:25] <acheronuk> updating to 3.30.5 is in progress
[10:25] <acheronuk> The update needs SRU verification
[10:26] <acheronuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
[10:49] <erle-> acheronuk, thanks
[10:57] <erle-> Why does it take so long? evolution-data-server is quite crucial, and there are multiple versions in between 3.30.1 and 3.30.5.
[10:58] <Unit193> Seems no users have bothered to verify it, I guess it isn't crucial.
[11:16] <erle-> I understand that for evolution as a mail client, but the result is that evolution-data-server is also outdated. Surprises me that that did not bother the team for commercial supported packages
[17:01] <huayra> Does anyone know when the openjdk-11-jdk packages in 18.04 will actually point to Java 11?
[17:06] <teward> huayra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/saaj/+bug/1814133 is the bug you'll want to watch.
[17:06] <teward> among others
[17:07] <teward> it's dependent on a LOT of things being updated to work with openjdk 11
[17:07] <teward> (and not everything is)
[17:32] <huayra> Thank you teward! That was actually hard to find even after extensive googling


[00:58] <InHisName> Let's get a washer repair conversation going, I need to fix one, now.
[01:09]  * waltman defers to JonathanD for all things repair-related
[01:14] <JonathanD> InHisName: really?
[03:28]  * InHisName finished enjoying a nice nap
[03:48] <InHisName> I did a 'show and tell' with washer.  Spin sounds like growling sound and seems to lighten quieter when basket comes to near full speed.   Sorta metalic sound.  Gearbox maybe?   Never took one apart, can they be lubed, bad gear replaced etc ?
[11:04] <rmg51> Morning
[11:12] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:12] <JonathanD> 43
[11:15] <rmg51> 44
[11:15] <JonathanD> Yes.
[11:20] <rmg51> No
[13:36] <morechee1e> morning
[13:36] <morechee1e> why are you guys always up so early?
[13:36] <morechee1e> i dont get to the office til at least 8:15 (we work 8:30 to 4:30 here)
[14:24] <teddy-dbear> morning
[14:25] <rmg51> clear gave me trouble this morning
[15:18] <InHisName> good morning all, including rmg51, teddy-dbear, morecheese, JonathanD and whoever is next.
[15:18] <JonathanD> Hi.
[15:23] <InHisName> JonathanD, care to help with advising washer repair ?
[15:24] <JonathanD> whats wrong with it?
[15:24] <JonathanD> oh, I see.
[15:25] <JonathanD> InHisName: you might want to ask jackson, when he's on.
[15:25] <JonathanD> InHisName: they are very easy to open up though if you want to start with that and look for obvious brokenness.
[15:25] <InHisName> He left shortly before I found washer broke.
[15:27] <InHisName> The spin cycles makes growling sounds.  When it gets up to speed it gets much quieter.    It might be the gear box, but don't know if they are rebuildable or not.
[15:28] <JonathanD> InHisName: I didn't dig in that far
[15:28] <JonathanD> Spray some wd40 into it :)
[15:28] <JonathanD> InHisName: it would be good to determine if it was the motor or gearbox, though.
[15:29] <InHisName> Motor seems fine in other modes.   Not running slower etc.   Just MORE noisy during spin.
[15:30] <InHisName> The WD40 or lubing makes sense to try in vacuum of knowledge so far.
[15:30] <InHisName> If I can find a hole to stuff some into.
[15:30] <JonathanD> make one!
[15:30] <JonathanD> or just spray the heck out of it anyway :;p
[15:31] <InHisName> Just gotta start and try somethin'
[17:05] <MutantTurkey> Konqueror is serious the best file manager ever.
[17:06] <morecheese> not a KDE fan
[17:06] <morecheese> http://bash.org/?85514
[17:06] <MutantTurkey> kde3.5
[17:06] <MutantTurkey> hehe
[17:06] <MutantTurkey> bash.org is very funny
[18:13] <InHisName> Seems to be a bearing going bad.  Most obvious in spin cycle.  JonathanD
[18:14] <JonathanD> yum.
[18:14] <JonathanD> in the trans?
[18:14] <InHisName> and one repair place I called mentioned that even simple bearing change in main spindle column takes all day in labor.  So is likely to be a don't fix it job.
[18:15] <JonathanD> :/
[18:15] <InHisName> Some companies put the bearings inside the transmission. $3-400 part.   Same diff.
[18:15] <InHisName> :'(
[18:16] <JonathanD> Found an article on replacing them.
[18:16] <JonathanD> says it takes about 8 hours if you've not done it before.
[18:16] <JonathanD> so yeah.
[18:17] <JonathanD> InHisName: craiglist or freecycle. Find yourself a free one ;)
[18:17] <InHisName> So I guess we'll keep using it till it dies and shop like crazy for good price with scratch & dent sale somewhere.
[18:17] <InHisName> Nice Idea.
[18:17] <JonathanD> Washers and driers are on there a lot.
[18:17] <JonathanD> People like to replace both when one dies, sometimes.
[18:18] <JonathanD> To have them match.
[18:18] <JonathanD> Silly people with silly credit cards, mostly.
[18:18] <InHisName> Great point !!
[18:19] <JonathanD> If I had the space I'd grab a second dryer when I find one for free.
[18:20] <JonathanD> Dryers take too long.
[18:20] <JonathanD> could get a lot more done if I had 2.
[18:26] <InHisName> My wife doesn't like the fuel costs, so hangs outdoors even in winter some times.    Even then she still uses dryer 1/2 the time.
[18:35] <MutantTurkey> never buy a used washer/dyer
[18:35] <MutantTurkey> my family went through like 4 in the last 6 year
[18:35] <MutantTurkey> because wee keep buying 50 dollar ones on craigslist.
[18:35] <MutantTurkey> just put out the damn money for a decent one.
[18:35] <MutantTurkey> :-)
[18:41] <teddy-dbear> silly clear :-/
[20:15] <InHisName> So Jackson changed his name and now seems to be missing.
[20:15] <waltman> Jackson?
[20:16] <InHisName> Three freecycle things I am in all had 1 -2 tween July & Oct   but not much after that.
[20:17] <InHisName> Craigslist has bunches.  Unfortunately most are new at dealers.  3/4 ..
[20:17] <InHisName> Well I still can use this one till the bearings freeze up.  I have shopping time.