[02:52] <daftykins> more idiots tonight
[02:53] <Bashing-om> ignore mode can get engaged mighty quick .
[02:54] <daftykins> :D
[03:11] <daftykins> time to leave the trolls to it i think, later folks o/
[03:13] <Bashing-om> nighty nite daftykins .
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:57] <TJ-> morning :)
[05:58] <lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
[07:02] <lotuspsychje> i hope more barebone companys will rise up
[07:02] <lotuspsychje> so winblows wont be attached to hardware
[07:06] <lotuspsychje> those clevo machines are nice, msi also
[07:06] <TJ-> People for some reason keep letting MS off the hook, but they've never stopped doing what they started in the 1990s: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah the sheep are so easy
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> i wonder why companys dont bet on more horses then MS?
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> its a good thing your hardware is wanted for multiple Os right?
[07:09] <TJ-> kickbacks
[07:10] <TJ-> Both MS and Intel have a long history of giving 'marketing rebates' to manufacturers for only shipping their stuff. Both Ms and Intel have been found guilty of it and made to pay large fines
[07:10] <TJ-> I find it amazing why so many people still use Windows, on this basis alone:
[07:10] <TJ-> Here, why don't you use this whizz-bang amazing software of mine?
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:11] <TJ-> I don't think so - every month for the last 15 years you've issued security updates to fix vulnerabilities and you've still not fixed it, and meanwhile I hear millions of PCs in the world get infected with malware and become part of bot-nets as a result
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> i think users are trapped in 'a safe feeling' of the known
[07:12] <TJ-> No one in their right mind would still drive an automobile with such a history
[07:12] <lotuspsychje> why goto another Os when you feel safe inside the windows
[07:12] <TJ-> So, I think they get what they deserve
[07:12] <lotuspsychje> its like tradition right
[07:12] <lotuspsychje> a fake safe feeling of the known
[07:13] <TJ-> feel safe... no... too lazy to try something different: yes (comfort zone trumps security)
[07:14] <lotuspsychje> but then you need to know someone who can support you, most users only find the start button
[07:14] <Ben64> can't figure out my partitioning problem :(
[07:14] <TJ-> Most modern Linux don't need support, no more than a similar Windows system
[07:14] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: whats up mate
[07:14] <TJ-> Ben64: we're here to fix it :)
[07:14] <Ben64> I have an external drive, 3TB Seagate. The SATA->USB bit on the bottom broke and can no longer access the drive with USB. I plugged it into SATA and was able to access it, but the partitions are screwed up. Testdisk finds an "Intel" MBR, as opposed to GPT, and so the partition it can recover is limited to 2.2TB of the 3TB. How can I fix this?
[07:15] <TJ-> Ben64: ooo ooo ooo I know! I know!
[07:15] <Ben64> :D
[07:15] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: can you get further with photorec?
[07:15] <Ben64> well the data all seems to be intact
[07:15] <Ben64> even finds the partition and I can browse it and everything
[07:15] <TJ-> Ben64: the USB bridge was doing logical/physical sector size translation, direct SATA connection isn't
[07:15] <Ben64> TJ-: boo, i was hoping not that
[07:15] <TJ-> so the kernel is now seeing different sector sizes, so the relative LBA addresses are now wrong
[07:16] <TJ-> You're the 2nd person with this issue this week
[07:16] <Ben64> seagate?
[07:16] <TJ-> makes no difference, the original problem was caused by the USB bridge translation
[07:16] <Ben64> hmm.... so how to fix
[07:16] <TJ-> instead of passing through what the drive actually reports, it 'munged' it
[07:17] <TJ-> Ben64: can you show us "parted /dev/sdX unit s print" ?
[07:18] <Ben64> http://sprunge.us/jiVP
[07:18] <Ben64> you can see the 2.2TB it found
[07:19] <TJ-> Ben64: how many partitions are on it?
[07:19] <Ben64> one
[07:21] <TJ-> Ben64: OK... "pastebinit <( dd if=/dev/sda count=16 bs=512 | hexdump -C )"
[07:21] <TJ-> Ben64: this is t identify where the GPT starts
[07:21] <Ben64> bah, living room computer turned off
[07:21] <Ben64> hardly use it, so i have the power saving set to maximum
[07:22] <Ben64> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13489742/
[07:23] <TJ-> Cripes!
[07:23] <Ben64> ?
[07:23] <TJ-> Ben64: I expected to see the GPT header at either offset 512, or 4096, since the logical/physical sizes are those
[07:23] <TJ-> GPT should start in LBA 1
[07:23] <TJ-> We'd best look further!
[07:23] <TJ-> Ben64:  "pastebinit <( dd if=/dev/sda count=32 bs=512 | hexdump -C )"
[07:24] <Ben64> i'm not sure gpt exists at all on this
[07:24] <Ben64> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13489753/
[07:24] <TJ-> Ben64: No, not GPT there
[07:25] <Ben64> why is it the same data?
[07:25] <TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop1 --offset $( echo 2048*4096 | bc ) /dev/sda" then "blkid /dev/loop1"
[07:26] <Ben64> no output
[07:27] <TJ-> Ben64: OK, "losetup -d /dev/loop1
[07:28] <TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop1 --offset $( echo 2048*512 | bc ) /dev/sda" then "blkid /dev/loop1"
[07:28] <TJ-> (we're now trying 512-byte sector sizes)
[07:28] <Ben64> /dev/loop1: LABEL="nessie" UUID="4d2222f6-3b59-4177-a586-2911d65a6ec1" TYPE="ext4"
[07:28] <TJ-> That what you were looking for?
[07:28] <Ben64> yep
[07:29] <TJ-> OK, so what we did there was make the starting offset to partition 1 (which we know from the MBR starts at LBA 2048) different by multiplying the starting LBA by 4096 and 512, to find which was the correct one to use
[07:30] <TJ-> so the USb bridge was using 512<>4096 translation whereas directly on SATA there is no translation
[07:30] <Ben64> thats annoying
[07:31] <TJ-> One of the 2 reasons I don't like USB bridges - the other being I've had several just fail (burn themselves out literally) when used with sustained data transfers
[07:31] <Ben64> yeah i think thats what happened here
[07:31] <TJ-> I prefer to use eSATA, on a laptop via an ExpressCard<>eSATA adapter
[07:31] <Ben64> which is disappointing for a usb3.0 drive
[07:31] <Ben64> think it could handle it
[07:32] <TJ-> I have external cabinets that can do both eSATA and USB, and I use the eSATA always
[07:32] <TJ-> the protocol can, but the chips don't have the cooling needed for sustained high-speed transfer
[07:32] <Ben64> i guess my next drives are internal, and I'll use some old box as NAS
[07:33] <Ben64> so if i get seagate to send me a new usb part, and i run testdisk again, it'll find all 3TB?
[07:33] <TJ-> like I said - eSATA is the way, that also supports external port multipliers. Just ensure the SATA chipset in an ExpressCard is a recent one. older varieties can have disk capacity limitations
[07:34] <TJ-> You've got it all now :)
[07:34] <Ben64> honestly, the drive kind of sucks
[07:34] <Ben64> the sata ports are too recessed, had to trim a cable to get it to fit
[07:34] <Ben64> don't have a esata cable i'm willing to sacrifice for this
[07:35] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: is there pcie card to esata to use it internal?
[07:36] <Ben64> loop1    7:1    0   2.7T  0 loop
[07:36] <Ben64> :o it is all there
[07:36] <Ben64> /dev/loop1      2.7T  2.6T   17G 100% /mnt
[07:36] <Ben64> :D
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> wb seagate :p
[07:37] <TJ-> If you notice, the ending sector number for partition 1 in the MBR<PHONE_NUMBER> isn't the same as the end of the drive, so that PT is wrong
[07:38] <TJ-> Ben64: which suggests that USB bridge was doing something more than simple LBa translation, it may be actively using its own partitioning system somewhere else on the device
[07:39] <TJ-> Ben64: might be an idea to create another loop device pointing to the sector following partition 1 and see what is there
[07:39] <Ben64> i'll see if seagate wants to send me new bits
[07:40] <Ben64> don't have a free sata on this computer to use
[07:40] <TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop2 -o $( echo 512*4294969343 | bc ) /dev/sda"
[07:40] <Ben64> oh, i think thats because of testdisk
[07:41] <TJ-> Oh! you allowed testdisk to write to the disk?
[07:41] <Ben64> it originally had one partiton, around 340GB, unknown filesystem
[07:41] <Ben64> yeah
[07:41] <Ben64> it showed the partition, how many sectors, etc
[07:41] <TJ-> Did you take a back-up of the original MBR before doing that?
[07:41] <Ben64> i did the math and it was the full 3TB, but I forgot about the MBR
[07:41] <Ben64> so it wrote 2.2TB :|
[07:42] <Ben64> uh... nope :S
[07:42] <TJ-> darn! first rule of recovery, *always* take a back-up of anything you change on a live system. The MBR is only 512 bytes :)
[07:43] <Ben64> yeah, i messed up
[07:43] <Ben64> i was just thinking, well it won't delete anything
[07:43] <TJ-> you should be able to re-write that MBR though. delete P1, then create a new one, starting at 2048 and ending at the default (end of disk), set it's type and that should be it
[07:43] <Ben64> i don't think that'd work
[07:44] <TJ-> it'd end at<PHONE_NUMBER> then
[07:44] <Ben64> i bet the 340GB partition was the whole thing
[07:44] <Ben64> and with whatever seagate's sata-usb thing does it works out
[07:44] <TJ-> but we know what you have now, and it's there on /dev/loop1, so you can write a partition entry that matches what is there
[07:45] <TJ-> we know it starts at LBA (sector) 2048, and it uses the entire disk, so there's no risk of losing some later partition
[07:47] <Ben64> well... usb thing is alive
[07:52] <Ben64> [423695.404476] sde: p1 size<PHONE_NUMBER>0 extends beyond EOD, truncated
[07:55] <TJ-> the partitioner should set it to<PHONE_NUMBER>
[07:56] <Ben64> doesn't seem like its letting me write to the disk
[07:56] <TJ-> what error?
[07:56] <TJ-> are you talking about the warning that the kernel's partition table couldn't be updated?
[07:56] <Ben64> Partition: Write Error (from testdisk)
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> cant you scan the whole hd with photorec and recover the data?
[07:57] <TJ-> Ben64: don't use testdisk.
[07:57] <TJ-> just use fdisk
[07:57] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the data doesn't need recovering, we have it fine
[07:57] <Ben64> lotuspsychje: yes, but the filesystem and everything is fine
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> ah kk
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> good job
[07:57] <Ben64> don't really use fdisk a lot
[07:58] <Ben64> TJ-: delete partition, create partition?
[07:58] <TJ-> Ben64: run 'fdisk /dev/sda' ... delete any existing partitions. create a (n)ew, it will likely suggest the default starting sector as 2048, if not, type it, then for the ending sector just press enter to accept the default (will be end of disk), set the type 8e, and then check the table with (p)rint. Then if it looks good, (w)rite it
[07:59] <Ben64> start is at 256 now
[07:59] <TJ-> Ben64: 256 in what units?
[07:59] <Ben64> uh.... sectors?
[08:00] <TJ-> delete anything thats there, create the partition you need using the instructions above ^
[08:01] <Ben64> ooh maybe it does need to be 2048 still
[08:01] <Ben64> using your loop trick, shows up 2048*512
[08:02] <TJ-> yes, it HAS to be 2048
[08:02] <Ben64> First sector<PHONE_NUMBER>44, default 256):
[08:02] <TJ-> ahhh, that's because it's looking at the physical sector size 4096
[08:03] <Ben64> oh duh, thats why 2048*512 worked still... because that doesn't care about sectors
[08:03] <TJ-> echo '256*4096; 2048*512' | bc => 1048576
[08:05] <Ben64> created partition, wrote to disk, no error, mounted partition
[08:05] <TJ-> Ben64: if the kernel is using the 4096 byte sectors you can redo the start is 256, or you can pull a neat trick. Create 2 partitions, one starting at 256 and the other at 2048... you have to do that editing manually of course on-disk using 'hexedit' but it's a clever way of being able to access the file-system no matter what translation is operating
[08:05] <TJ-> Ben64: so you now have a working /dev/sda1 ?
[08:05] <Ben64> well its /dev/sde1 over here, but yep :D
[08:05] <Ben64> thanks
[08:06] <Ben64> dunno how the usb part came back to life
[08:06] <Ben64> tried it days later and it still didn't work, now it does
[08:06] <TJ-> bad connection on the cabling/sockets - possibly cracked solder where the sockets are soldered to the PCB
[08:07] <Ben64> so I should still see if it's under warranty
[08:07] <TJ-> I often see that, and just reflow fresh solder/flux on the pins and ensure the socket itself is well soldered down on its lugs
[08:07] <TJ-> OK, well, I have to go out now. Don't go breaking it again :)
[08:07] <lotuspsychje> lol
[08:07] <Ben64> i'll try not to write too hard to it anymore
[08:08] <lotuspsychje> i also have a 1TB seagate with double usb ports cable, works like a charm
[08:08] <Ben64> double usb ports?
[08:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah to give it enough power
[08:09] <lotuspsychje> its from few years ago
[08:09] <lotuspsychje> now its all 1 usb cable
[08:09] <lotuspsychje> mine is still split
[09:00] <TJ-> devices are much lower power now, so they don't need more than the 0.5A per USB2 port they could expect
[10:45] <lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett :p
[10:47] <lotuspsychje> http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/11/dell-apologizes-for-https-certificate-fiasco-provides-removal-tool/
[10:47] <lotuspsychje> a lot of big companys apologiys recently :p
[10:49] <Ben64> maybe they shouldn't pull dumb crap like that
[10:49] <lotuspsychje> yeah indeed
[10:50] <lotuspsychje> MS forced updates, VW cheating system,...
[10:50] <lotuspsychje> its all going bad :p
[10:54] <TJ-> it's because 'developer' does NOT equal 'engineer' - Engineer implies a professional, with ethics, standards and so forth
[10:55] <TJ-> If bridge Engineers worked the same way software developers did there would be uproar over all the bridge failures
[10:57] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you remember how many devs worked on windows7
[10:57] <lotuspsychje> and after a year MS sacced them all
[11:01] <TJ-> I don't recall seeing that
[11:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/microsoft-fires-7800-second-biggest-mass-layoff-its-history
[11:09] <TJ-> That's this year, nothing to do with Windows 7
[11:10] <Ben64> Microsoft also announced the reduction of up to 7,800 positions, primarily in the phone business
[11:10] <Ben64> yeah, not windows
[11:10] <cfhowlett> no surprise.  hard to get transaction against iPhone
[11:11] <Ben64> iphone?
[11:11] <Ben64> you mean android
[11:11] <cfhowlett> both
[11:12] <Ben64> 82.8% android
[11:12] <Ben64> 13.9% ios
[11:12] <Ben64> 2.6% windows
[11:12] <cfhowlett> eh?  that's seems rather high.  source for the stats?
[11:12] <Ben64> thought it'd be lower actually
[11:12] <Ben64> thats units shipped 2015 q2
[11:13] <cfhowlett> says who?
[11:13] <Ben64> http://www.idc.com/tracker/showproductinfo.jsp?prod_id=37
[11:16] <TJ-> I'm very surprised MS/Elop weren't charged criminally for the way they destroyed Nokia. Even more amazing is the shareholders sat back and took the destruction of value. From this side of history it looks like MS set out to destroy Nokia, any way they could
[11:17] <Ben64> microsoft was in the business of destroying competition
[11:17] <cfhowlett> was?
[11:18] <TJ-> 1. Get MS executive onto Nokia board. Elop appointed CEO - CHECK. 2. 'pivot' from existing dominance of mobile market into making only MS Windows devices - CHECK. 3. Destroy value of Nokia - CHECK. 4. Buy remains cheaply - CHECK. 5. Fire the remaining inherited staff and close down the business - CHECK
[11:19] <TJ-> One hell of a way to run a railroad!
[11:19] <Ben64> cfhowlett: well they don't seem to be doing it like they were before
[11:21] <TJ-> They're still funding partisan 'industry associations' to attack competitors both politically and legally
[11:22] <TJ-> And providing 'marketing rebates' for Windows-only devices for those manufacturers that toe the line
[11:22] <cfhowlett> and for all that, their phone division is failing.
[11:22] <TJ-> right, both on 'phone and search they really don't understand the market drivers
[11:24] <TJ-> They're used to dictating how users behave I guess, and have problems visualising how to leap-frog what is now the incumbant: Google
[11:24] <Ben64> the only reason people use windows is because its what most people use
[11:25] <lotuspsychje> true
[11:25] <Ben64> they're not used to people having choice
[11:25] <TJ-> we were on about this earlier :)
[11:25] <TJ-> "who in their right mind would choose a product that over 15 years has needed security patches every month?"
[11:25] <Ben64> some people still imagine linux being like the lines of code in the matrix
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:26] <Ben64> i like how they don't even push patches until a certain day
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> neo took over my computer
[11:26] <Ben64> eh whatever, stay vulnerable till next patch wednesday
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> haha
[11:26] <TJ-> I'm glad it does, that way you get an idea what it is doing
[11:27] <Ben64> windows 10 is increasingly scary sounding, so thats good for linux
[11:28] <lotuspsychje> i agree on that Ben64
[11:28] <lotuspsychje> will be good for my ubuntu shop :p
[11:28] <Ben64> you have an ubuntu shop?
[11:28] <cfhowlett> windows has been scary for YEARS and linux is still stickied at ... what?  2 - 4% market penetration?  Hell, even OSX has more than that.
[11:29] <Ben64> its scaring more normal people now
[11:29] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: not yet, next year ill start
[11:29] <Ben64> forced updates, privacy stuff spelled out
[11:29] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: ubuntu + ssd + tweaked
[11:29] <Ben64> selling ubuntu computers?
[11:30] <lotuspsychje> yes also
[11:30] <lotuspsychje> and phones and tablets
[11:30] <Ben64> do you need to do anything with canonical
[11:30] <lotuspsychje> ill contact them before i start to ask that
[11:30] <Ben64> not sure the licensing stuff for ubuntu
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> but ubuntu is free right
[11:31] <Ben64> "Ubuntu" isn't free
[11:31] <Ben64> Ubuntu is free
[11:31] <Ben64> If I'm remembering properly
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> you mean the name mentioning on someone elses website then
[11:32] <Ben64> I think its like the iceweasel thing
[11:32] <lotuspsychje> i could also mention 'a linux distro'
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: well, you know system76, ill do a bit liek them
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> Ben64:
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> https://system76.com/
[11:33] <Ben64> or just ask permission
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> yes i will contact them
[11:34] <Ben64> "To use the Ubuntu trademark, you must secure the Canonical's OEM services team's permission. You can contact them to see if what you're doing is okay. This should not be too difficult, as several small vendors like System76 and ZaReason have secured an agreement."
[11:34] <Ben64> Sounds pretty easy
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> Ben64: https://system76.com/disclaimer
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> last 3 lines
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[11:49] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[11:49] <EriC^^> what's up?
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> oh nothing much, easy chatting here this morning with the lads here :p
[11:50] <EriC^^> cool
[11:51] <EriC^^> TJ-: yesterday someone was trying to convert his legacy install to uefi, ( booting the usb in uefi mode gave him a grub shell ), i tried to modprobe efivars but grub still couldn't find the efivars
[11:51] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: Ben64 suggested me to contact canonical for my shop and i found this: https://system76.com/disclaimer
[11:52] <EriC^^> was wondering if there was anything else needed to be done to get grub-efi to install from a legacy booted install, in the end he turned off secure boot and that somehow didn't drop him to a grub shell anymore and he installed in uefi mode ( kind of odd isn't it? )
[11:54] <TJ-> EriC^^: the way I do it is to install grub-efi, but also copy /efi/EFI/grub/grubx64.efi to /efi/EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI ... that is the EFI simple (removable media) boot path the firmware checks on a device you try to boot in EFI mode. That way the system will still be bootable, and once booted in EFI mode, you can redo the "grub-install" which can successfully use efibootmgr to add the Ubuntu boot menu
[11:54] <TJ-> entry
[11:55] <EriC^^> i see
[11:55] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: what does that mean to you?
[11:55] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i also have to mention ubuntu's logo etc trademark
[11:56] <EriC^^> TJ-: how come it didn't drop to a grub shell after disabling secure boot? isn't secureboot supposed to not let grub even be loaded in the first place?
[11:56] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: oh ok, that's a good heads up then
[11:56] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:58] <TJ-> EriC^^: if the PC is booting in legacy mode its reading LBA 0 from the boot device. If it starts in EFI mode, and there is no existing boot menu entry, it'll look at the bootable devices for an EFI system partition, and then look for the simple boot path. Without either of those the firmware won't even be able to load GRUB
[12:00] <EriC^^> yeah, he said when he chose UEFI usb in the boot menu it gave him a grub shell, legacy worked though
[12:00] <EriC^^> when he disabled secureboot, he then chose UEFI usb again, and it booted into ubiquity
[12:01] <EriC^^> maybe he had a bad shimx64.efi or something? it's odd no?
[12:03] <TJ-> The grub shell in UEFI mode tells you it loaded /EFI/grub/grubx64.efi - otherwise known as GRUB's core.img
[12:03] <TJ-> So it sounds like GRUB  simply couldn't find its root file-system (/boot/) where the grub files are
[12:04] <TJ-> in that case always use "set" to check the values of "root" and "prefix" variables, and then look in the "prefix" location for the grub.cfg and other files/dirs to check the expected files are there
[13:07] <BluesKaj> HI folks
[13:07] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[13:08] <BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: you said yesterday something about nvidia depraced?
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> nouveau or current?
[13:10] <BluesKaj> no more nvidia-current
[13:10] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: whats the replacement for it?
[13:11] <lotuspsychje> or do users need to specifi nvidia-340 etc
[13:11] <BluesKaj> if one tries to install the driver using nvidia-current, it fails
[13:11] <BluesKaj> yes, specific afaik
[13:11] <lotuspsychje> any reason?
[13:12] <BluesKaj> dunno
[13:13] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ok tnx
[13:14] <BluesKaj> the last nvidia-current was the 304 driver
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-current
[13:15] <BluesKaj> which is was used on 13.10 iiirc
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> right
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-current xenial
[13:21] <BluesKaj> so the 304 driver is the last nvidia-current
[13:23] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so users think they gonna get latest and get the 304
[13:23] <BluesKaj> yup
[13:23] <lotuspsychje> devs know about this?
[13:23] <lotuspsychje> lemme go ask in devel
[13:25] <BluesKaj> dunno , never seen it discussed on #kubuntu-devel, but maybe the devs at #ubuntu-devel have an answer
[13:32] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: <lotuspsychje> is nvidia-current going to be depraced?
 shows still nvidia-graphics-drivers-304
 it's already deprecated, as it's just a transitional package
[13:34] <BluesKaj> ok
[13:34] <BluesKaj> thanks
[13:34] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: it will vanish after 304 is dead
[13:34] <BluesKaj> makes sense
[13:34] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: and additional drivers section now manages right driver for the system
[13:35] <BluesKaj> yeah in kubuntu it's the driver manager
[13:35] <lotuspsychje> good to know
[13:35] <BluesKaj> yeah, it's important
[14:08] <lotuspsychje> his pc might have autorun worm and error on the stick TJ-
[14:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: nah, the while thing has been wiped with the dd of the ISO
[14:10] <TJ-> This is the person that was banned for being a pain not so many weeks ago, in fact, the nickname got notoruious
[14:10] <lotuspsychje> oh
[14:10] <lotuspsychje> cant recall that nick
[14:11] <TJ-> 2015-11-04 18:12:07     TJ-     Eh? No - I was commenting on pikapi managing to destroy Ubuntu 3 times a day apparently
[14:11] <TJ-> 2015-11-05 12:54:47     daftykins       TJ-: well it's been all go here too ;) pikapi is one of those bad-advice trolls
[14:11] <TJ-> 2015-11-05 12:55:30     TJ-     pikapi, the 3-a-day Ubuntu kid?
[14:12] <lotuspsychje> right
[14:13] <TJ-> I think pikapi is one of those people that does all sorts of random stuff 'read on the forums' without any concept of what it does, and then comes here wanting to be dug out of the hole
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> thats not the same as that pikachu guy that gave false advise?
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: the on you tought to have asperger lol
[14:13] <TJ-> Right! that's the one
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> looool
[14:13] <TJ-> I'd forgotten... thankfully :D
[14:14] <TJ-> no wonder its stressing me
[14:14] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but ikonia banned that guy
[14:14] <lotuspsychje> i was there
[14:16] <TJ-> ahh, yes, ddaftykins told me about that
[14:17] <lotuspsychje> doesnt make sense, that guy gave false advise was more agressive to other users
[14:17] <lotuspsychje> lol soon we are investigators instead of volunteers :p
[14:21] <TJ-> this is what I mean about him doing random things:
[14:21] <TJ-> 2015-11-03 19:41:16     pikapi  i did sudo apt-get remove initramfs-tools and it was uninstalling just about everything
[14:21] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:22]  * TJ- is rolling eyes like bowling balls :)
[14:22] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[14:22] <lotuspsychje> someone has a mental disease :p
[14:24] <TJ-> when you've got users randomly doing things like that there could be any number of things wrong with the system causing knock-on effects - like this booting issue, we still don't know what the PC is I don't think, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn its been 'tuned' and overclocked in the firmware setup
[14:25] <lotuspsychje> true
[14:25] <lotuspsychje> thats why support is so hard
[14:25] <lotuspsychje> never know what the user did really
[14:28] <TJ-> I had a remote ssh session on Sunday, to recover a RAID-1 array on a live virtual machine Xen host that had 'lost' access to a pair of disks after the datacentre remote-hands had killed the power to the server. Took about 3 hours to fix it up whilst the system was live. It made me realise how much better it is to have hands/eyes-on
[14:29] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: bt you did a great job on my ralink remote :p
[14:30] <TJ-> I did? we did? I don't remember that!
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> stay off the dog food :p
[14:31] <TJ-> oh... you mean that WMP600N PCI ID issue
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> ralink 2800pci
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> yep
[14:31] <TJ-> ahh, see, I don't think of it as ralink at all
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> yeah linksys as main :p
[14:33] <TJ-> My brain remembers visuals and concepts and procedures, but not precise facts - not for long anyhow. I constantly have to 'refresh' by searching for the precise way of doing something. One reason I prefer precise accurate documentation and exact instructions.
[14:34] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah youre a very practical thinker and i like that
[14:38] <lotuspsychje> bbl driving lessons
[14:51] <EriC^^> TJ-: uefi conversion
[14:51] <EriC^^> robotti says he can't boot in uefi mode on his mac
[14:52] <EriC^^> how do we go about getting grub installed?
[15:02] <EriC^^> TJ-: you there?
[15:45] <TJ-> sorry, was out and about in the fields
[15:50] <EriC^^> TJ-: np, it apparently installed fine
[15:50] <EriC^^> sudo modprobe efivars might have done it
[22:34] <daftykins> on macs it's fine to just install grub to the partition that ubuntu is on; then suggest installing rEFInd as a boot loader
[22:34] <daftykins> amusingly i'm attempting to fix a boot issue on my old HTPC today :D
[22:35] <daftykins> a dist-upgrade murdered a 14.04 install o0 it claims it can't find a UUID at boot but they're all correct, very odd indeed
[22:35] <daftykins> anywho i'm not gonna give up just yet, giving it a look over now via chroot :)
[22:41] <Bashing-om> daftykins: I do not know Macs or rEFInd , not much direct help there .. BUT I do boot an (L)ubuntu install with grub installed onto the partition .
[22:42] <daftykins> oh the mac thing was just a delayed comment to EriC^^ - i was scrolled up a bit by accident
[22:42] <daftykins> my one is a standard PC
[22:43] <EriC^^> try to update-initramfs -u maybe
[22:45] <Bashing-om> :) .. I multi boot 'buntus .. took me weeks of trial and effort and a steep learning curve to be able to boot any I desire, and a update on one not messing up grub on the others .. Hey, I feel good with what I did learn in this endevour .
[22:45] <daftykins> EriC^^: yeah that seems like the ticket now, i had some udevadm errors - wireless keyboard wouldn't call up GRUB so i'm going to do it from live session again :>
[22:46] <daftykins> Bashing-om: sounds good indeed, i don't really know where to start with boot most of the time
[22:46] <daftykins> and i don't know about you guys but i found those boot repair logs a nightmare to read =|
[22:47] <Bashing-om> daftykins: I still get lost with the hooks that are called into the kernel . Not real sure to this time what is taking place in kernel land .
[22:51] <TJ-> :)
[22:51] <daftykins> cat trying to sneak on my lap whilst i'm busy D:
[22:57] <daftykins> ah, i love the native resolution boot logo up on my large TV... shame the nvidia proprietary drivers ruin that
[22:58] <daftykins> not half as much as i love the native resolution TTYs mind ;)
[22:58] <daftykins> ok that's mine all fixed ^_^
[22:59] <TJ-> I've had to fix a GCC 5 induced bug in syslinux that prevents systems booting, and it affects USB startup disk creator and anything else that uses syslinux for boot loader services, in order to build a new plopkexec floppy. Then I had to figure out how to build a kernel small enough to fit on a floppy,  and now the resulting darned plopkexec kernel image can't find the plop /init exectuable!
[22:59] <daftykins> >_<!
[23:00] <daftykins> why are we even moving to GCC 5 when it seems to have screwed over so many things?
[23:01] <TJ-> Because it provides some great improvements
[23:01] <daftykins> ah just painful to get there :>
[23:01] <TJ-> the problems were caused by programmers using unsupported functionality, rather than sticking to the standards
[23:01] <daftykins> oh ok sort of like when things become deprecated?
[23:02] <TJ-> not even that... things GCC just happened to do but didn't match the language/POSIX specifications, so when later versions of the compiler are used to build that code, and have tightened up the observence of the rules, things break
[23:05] <daftykins> ah har
[23:05] <daftykins> oh btw guys i read AMD have moved a lot more graphics cards to legacy status now, including some APUs
[23:05] <daftykins> this is mostly for the Windows drivers but i'm sure that'll trickle down into the Linux driver(s) at some point too
[23:06] <TJ-> I'm having to force using gcc 4.8 for this 3.1.4 version that plop uses: "make ARCH=i386 CC=gcc-4.9 bzImage"
[23:06] <TJ-> Yes, they seem to do that very aggressively - not the best way to keep your loyal customers happy
[23:09] <daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/9815/amd-moves-pre-gcn-gpus-to-legacy
[23:09] <daftykins> here's more
[23:10] <daftykins> so before it was up to and including HD 4000 that was useless on anything newer than 12.04.1; now HD 5000, HD 6000, HD 7000 and HD 7600 are gone
[23:10] <daftykins> also pre-Kaveri APUs
[23:13] <OerHeks> oink
[23:15] <daftykins> o/
[23:18] <TJ-> ahah! The kernel's initramfs/ directory had a symlink to the built version of the /init exectuable I'd built in another location, but the kernel was literally including the symlink, not resolving it to the exe!
[23:19] <TJ-> boots and works in a VM... now to try it again on that obstinate mobo
[23:19]  * daftykins sighs at the channel
[23:26] <TJ-> nope, doesn't like the hardware. Grrr, so frustrating!
[23:26] <daftykins> that the embedded one again?
[23:28] <Bashing-om> TJ-: The bright side . Fighting the motherboard . slim chance you will find trouble elsewhere and land in Jail .
[23:29] <daftykins> :D
[23:29] <TJ-> haha! can reproduce it in the VM now... qemu-system-x86_64 -cpu 486 ...
[23:29] <TJ-> So, the compiler is building the /init exe for a later 32-bit CPU
[23:30] <daftykins> easily remedied?
[23:38] <TJ-> yes, alter the compiler options to target the earlier CPU
[23:41] <daftykins> \o/
[23:46] <TJ-> so, it dies in qemu VM with 486 or pentium, but not pentium2. I built the /init exe with gcc -march=c3-2 (which is the specific VIA C3 Samuel 2 CPU on the mobo)
[23:47] <daftykins> oof those little things :)
[23:50] <TJ-> hmmm, it's looking like it's not the /init options so much as the kernel options
[23:54] <Bashing-om> ^^ That ole song " What does it take to keep a kernel like you, Satisfied " .
[23:54] <daftykins> :D


[12:08] <zyga> carlos: ping
[12:09] <eirikn> salgado: isn't that nice.. :)
[12:09] <salgado> not as a bounty :)
[12:09] <zyga> carlos: just to be sure, when a .po file has wrong charset the correct thing to do is to fix the charset line and upload it via rosetta, right?
[12:19] <carlos> zyga, pong
[12:19] <carlos> zyga, yes
[12:25] <zyga> carlos: strange
[12:25] <zyga> carlos: the source package is kanatest
[12:25] <carlos> zyga, what's wrong with it?
[12:25] <zyga> carlos: it's got 100% translation for polish but is not on the status page
[12:25] <carlos> zyga, and how do you know it's 100% translated?
[12:26] <zyga> carlos: I just ran it
[12:26] <zyga> carlos: it's got about 10 strings
[12:26] <zyga> okay ... minor correction - one string is not translated
[12:26] <zyga> its fuzzy
[12:27] <zyga> it's
[12:33] <carlos> zyga, I don't follow you... I thought it was related to status in Rosetta..
[12:34] <zyga> carlos: it is - as usuall I cannot find it in rosetta at all
[12:34] <carlos> zyga, did you tried writting the url by hand?
[12:35] <zyga> trying now
[12:35] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/kanatest/+translations
[12:35] <zyga> no published translations
[12:41] <carlos> zyga, fixed, seems like it hadn't any change since hoary. It should appear soon
[12:42] <zyga> carlos: thank you, I've contacted upstream, should be fixed in the next revision
[12:42] <carlos> fixed, what? the missing translation?
[12:44] <zyga> carlos: encoding
[12:45] <carlos> oh! ok
[12:50] <sabdfl> jamesh: ping
[01:08] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Fix a bug when displaying the vote of the logged in user in a public poll (patch-2628<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:25] <lifeless> where is the new file template ?
[01:27] <Kinnison> Hey dudes. Is there a reviewer about?
[01:27] <lifeless> yes
[01:27] <Kinnison> night cprov
[01:27] <lifeless> yes to Kinnison I mean
[01:27] <lifeless> night cprov
[01:27] <Kinnison> lifeless: fancy a reasonably quick review?
[01:27] <lifeless> after breakfast :) I'm in the middle of ddaas monster right now
[01:28] <lifeless> and then food.
[01:28] <lifeless> and then, sure.
[01:28] <Kinnison> Grab it from the bottom of stub's queue
[01:28] <Kinnison> it has a db patch needing blessing y'see
[01:28] <Kinnison> it's a very specific "just this changeset"
[01:28] <Kinnison> This changeset implements DistroComponentUploader and associated bits in the db classes, zcml etc
[01:29] <Kinnison> (and yes, it includes tests -- wooyay)
[01:31] <Diablo-D3> bed is overrated
[01:31] <Diablo-D3> especially when there isnt a hot chick in it
[01:31] <Diablo-D3> ..... I'm sad now =(
[01:34] <Kinnison> sometimes has cute men though :-)
[01:35] <lifeless> why are chicks hot and men cute ?
[01:35] <lifeless> or are your men dead ?
[01:35] <lifeless> i.e. 'stiffs' ?
[01:35] <Kinnison> actually my man is quite hot
[01:35] <Kinnison> but that's because he has screwwy internal temp regulation
[01:35] <Diablo-D3> wait
[01:35] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison is a girl?!
[01:36] <lifeless> no, just gay.
[01:36] <Kinnison> lifeless: oh yeah, when you do review my code, can you be sure to be pragmatic about it. I.E. if it will "do" then accept it, but let me know what to file as bugs for fixing later. I.E.   Or just in release-crunch?
[01:44] <Keybuk> KST I think
[01:44] <Keybuk> what you crying about?
[01:44] <Kinnison> I've managed to tick off about four items so far tonight
[01:44] <eirikn> oh well, off to bed.
[01:44] <Kinnison> only twelve bajillion left
[01:45] <eirikn> night all
[01:45] <Kinnison> night eirikn
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: hrm, wtf do you call a SWMBO in gayese? HWMBO doesnt have the same ring to it
[01:45] <Keybuk> what's a SWMBO?
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: she who must be obeyed
[01:45] <Keybuk> same, "mom"
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> ahah
[01:45] <Kinnison> or "mother dear"
[01:45] <Keybuk> well, "mum" because we're English and we can spell
[01:46] <Kinnison> or in some circumstances, "grandmother"
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> the terms only applies to gf and wives.
[01:46] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: I do my best to *BE* HWMBO
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> s/terms/term/
[01:46] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: not that it does me any good
[01:46] <Kinnison> He only ever visits when I'm away from home
[01:48] <sabdfl> Kinnison: ok, i have pages for build, binary package, sourcepackage-in-distro, and sourcepackagerelease-in-distro
[01:48] <sabdfl> still need lots of polish but the skeleton is there
[01:48] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: so he is HWMBO?
[01:48] <sabdfl> Kinnison: do you expect to get more than one publishing record for a given SPR in a given DR?
[01:48] <Diablo-D3> on behalf of straight men everywhere, straight relationships have their plusses
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> there is only one candidate for SWMBO in any given relationship
[01:49] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: I bet you never get asked who "the woman" is in the relationship
[01:49] <Kinnison> sabdfl: hmm
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: we call that "who wears the pants" in the relationship
[01:49] <Kinnison> sabdfl: It's *POSSIBLE* to have the same SPR published in different pockets
[01:49] <Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm not sure it's desirable
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: of which, the women wearing the pants isnt a bad thing if shes obviously making way more money than you ever could
[01:50] <sabdfl> Kinnison: any reason to even consider allowing that?
[01:50] <Kinnison> sabdfl: currently there's no constraint on it
[01:50] <Kinnison> sabdfl: in theory it'd be possible during a transfer from -updates if we rolled them into the main pocket
[01:51] <sabdfl> right
[01:51] <Kinnison> sabdfl: For now, I say assume it'll never happen
[01:51] <Diablo-D3> actually, this entire conversation is hillarious.
[01:51] <sabdfl>  proposed-updates to updates?
[01:51] <Kinnison> sabdfl: probably a move rather than a copy
[01:51] <Kinnison> Hang on
[01:51] <Kinnison> we never expect the same SPR to be PUBLISHED
[01:51] <Diablo-D3> I believe that a relationship should be led by whoever feels like leading atm
[01:52] <Diablo-D3> and if neither of you feel like it, it means that no one gets out of bed this morning ;)
[01:52] <Kinnison> but we could be in a situation where (e.g. changing component) we have the same SPR in different states
[01:52] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: that's fine. I can work from bed with my laptop :-)
[01:52] <Kinnison> sabdfl: Are you considering the history, or just the current published state?
[01:52] <sabdfl> history
[01:52] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: ahh, a geek threesome then?
[01:52] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: What? me, him and the laptop?
[01:53] <Kinnison> sabdfl: history you can assume nothing
[01:53] <Kinnison> sabdfl: Or rather, *expect* to see the same SPR having been in different places across the lifetime of a distrorelease
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: yes.
[01:53] <sabdfl> ok
[01:53] <sabdfl> so it needs to be a list then
[01:54] <Kinnison> sabdfl: Y'see if we change a component, we set a new record PENDING and then supersede the old one
[01:54] <sabdfl> right
[01:54] <Kinnison> sabdfl: so we retain the history of the component change
[01:54] <sabdfl> sensibly - good work
[01:54] <sabdfl>  + laptop
[01:55] <Kinnison> sabdfl: I have 13 pages of notes on work for tomorrow /o\
[01:55] <Kinnison> this pencil is about 2cm shorter than when I got it from the cupboard
[01:57] <sabdfl> Kinnison: i hope to have the pages good enough for landing pre-thursday
[01:57] <Diablo-D3> ugh
[01:57] <sabdfl> we can get the new pages up for the dapper opening tuesday
[01:57] <Diablo-D3> 2 inches is more impressive than 2cm
[01:58] <Kinnison> sabdfl: rock on
[01:58] <Kinnison> sabdfl: you in tomorrow?
[01:58] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: any less than four inches is, if you'll pardon the expression, a pain in the arse.
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: .....
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> is it wrong if I laughed at that?
[01:58] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: no, because it was a joke
[01:58] <ajmitch> yes
[01:59] <Diablo-D3> you know, theres only one appropriate song for this conversation
[01:59] <sabdfl> can be in, otherwise am close by, working for YOU! lots of build system page cleanups. there's insufficient time to get it perfect but it can at least be funcitonal
[02:00] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: you shouldn't, they're bad for your health
[02:00] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: hah
[02:00] <Kinnison> sabdfl: but I guess it's more distracting
[02:00] <Kinnison> sabdfl: your choice I guess :-)
[02:00] <sabdfl> will come in to show off working pages
[02:00] <Kinnison> show+tell is always fun
[02:00] <Kinnison> feck, it's 1am and I'm still drinking caffeine
[02:00] <Kinnison> I'm mad
[02:00] <Keybuk> shiiiiny
[02:01] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: you're intentionally wording your output that way, arent you?
[02:01] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: If you'd met me, you'd realise quite how much of a silly sod I am
[02:01] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: just ask keybuk or sabdfl. And they have to work with me
[02:02] <Kinnison> In the meantime, I don't have the luxury of working on KST
[02:02] <Kinnison> so I'm off to bed
[02:02] <Kinnison> sabdfl: speak tomorow
[02:02] <sabdfl> Keybuk: what's caught your eye?
[02:02] <Kinnison> ciao all
[02:02] <sabdfl> cheers Kinnison
[02:02] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: I know you from #lua
[02:02] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: you're pretty whacked in the head. ;)
[02:02] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: good analysis
[02:02] <Diablo-D3> you being gay is just one more peice in the puzzle.
[02:03] <Keybuk> sabdfl: nothing in particular tonight
[02:03] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: well, it explains things more, it's not exactly a defining part of me
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: thats what I was saying
[02:03] <Kinnison> Keybuk: gnome-terminal ain't crashed since I sicced gdb on it :-(
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> because if it was a defining part of you, I'd kindly ask you to turn the flaming homo skit down a little bit
[02:03] <Keybuk> Kinnison: did you recompile it?
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> you know, before you accidently burn the channel down
[02:04] <Diablo-D3> do you know how much insurance for irc costs nowadays? =/
[02:04] <Keybuk> 51p and a Mars Bar
[02:05] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: slightly less, but that isnt the point.
[02:05] <Diablo-D3> speaking of which, I've always wanted packet kiddie insurance.
[02:05] <Kinnison> Keybuk: no
[02:07] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: so, how are guys cute?
[02:07] <Diablo-D3> we're jeeps to those womenz' ferrari
[02:07] <Kinnison> urgh
[02:08] <Kinnison> It's too hard to define
[02:08] <Kinnison> I could wibble on about how it's all personal
[02:08] <Kinnison> but tbh. I cba.
[02:08] <Diablo-D3> and tell you the truth, I'd rather drive a ferrari
[02:08] <Kinnison> it's 1am and I'm knackered
[02:08] <Keybuk> or you could go for the "tight arse and stomach" scale
[02:08] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Mmm there is that
[02:08] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Personally I'm more the in "nice lips, nice eyes" clan.
[02:08] <Kinnison> Keybuk: but then I always was odd
[02:09] <Diablo-D3> ahah, women are eaiser to impress then
[02:09] <Diablo-D3> I may not be good looking, but I carry a big stick. *cough*
[02:09] <Keybuk> no, women are just better at faking it
[02:10] <Kinnison> Keybuk: If you've not seen it, I shall have to lend you 'A Cause d'un Garon'
[02:10] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: touche.
[02:10] <Kinnison> Keybuk: UK title "You'll get over it"
[02:10] <Keybuk> I'
[02:10] <Keybuk> ve not seen it
[02:10] <Kinnison> Keybuk: s'a french film, but the DVD has .uk subtitles
[02:10] <carlos> see you!
[02:10] <Keybuk> I bought a copy of conversational french the other day
[02:10] <Keybuk> for the flight to Montreal
[02:10] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: Im surprised there arent more of you in the foss world
[02:10] <Diablo-D3> I've only met one other
[02:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: coolio
[02:11] <Diablo-D3> normally foss scares women
[02:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: if you're down for the party, you can grab the dvd from me
[02:11] <Diablo-D3> but apparently it scares those of the gay persuation too
[02:11] <Keybuk> I'm sure I'll still speak it in a Welsh accent, but at least I'll have a fighting chance
[02:11] <Keybuk> Kinnison: there's still no invites
[02:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: or rather, I'll drop the VOBs on your iAudio
[02:11] <Keybuk> except the one from Jeff
[02:11] <Diablo-D3> but get this, this other member of the foss community I know of is both gay AND a woman.
[02:11] <lifeless> interalia: strange
[02:11] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: ime. almost everyone in the FOSS world is at least bi
[02:11] <lifeless> bah
[02:12] <Kinnison> Diablo-D3: IT has to be one of the most gay industries I've ever seen
[02:12] <lifeless> Diablo-D3: strange
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> it makes entirely no sense.
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> Kinnison: not really
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> IT is more... nonsexual.
[02:12] <lifeless> Diablo-D3: I know more gays and lesbians via FOSS than not.
[02:12] <Kinnison> maybe IT attracts people so desperate they'll "try being gay" :-)
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> either that, or private fapping with the furry archives
[02:12] <interalia> lifeless: I know I am, but don't tell everyone, it's meant to be a secret :)
[02:12] <lifeless> Diablo-D3: and if you include the broader it industry, well one of my contracts when I first got to .au was at an organisation that was 90% gay/lesbian.
[02:13] <lifeless> Diablo-D3: and -all- it.
[02:13] <Diablo-D3> hrm.
[02:13] <Diablo-D3> you know
[02:13] <Diablo-D3> if I worked for an organization like that
[02:14] <Diablo-D3> just let me watch the lesbians for a few hours, and I'll wave my fees.
[02:14] <lifeless> heh.
[02:14] <lifeless> you aint seen *those* lesbians.
[02:14] <Diablo-D3> ahh, biker chicks from mars?
[02:15] <lifeless> not quite. but certainly not the stereotypical non-gay-mans-fantasy
[02:15] <Diablo-D3> even then, long as they arent a three bag problem, it cant be /that/ bad
[02:16] <Kinnison> anyway, I *really* have to sleep
[02:16] <Kinnison> ciao
[02:16] <Diablo-D3> I may be the only man on earth that porn does nothing for.
[02:16] <Diablo-D3> night Kinnison
[02:16] <Keybuk> what is it with straight men and lesbians?!
[02:17] <Diablo-D3> I have no clue
[02:17] <Keybuk> they clearly haven't been in a room with them
[02:17] <Keybuk> they're seriously scary
[02:17] <Diablo-D3> only a few lesbian scenes I've ever seen are any good
[02:17] <Diablo-D3> and its because of *gasp* good acting
[02:18] <Diablo-D3> actually, thats whats wrong with porn
[02:18] <Diablo-D3> too many flat emotionless lines, and robotic motions
[02:18] <Diablo-D3> hell, robot sex would be more erotic.
[02:19] <Diablo-D3> sex between optimus prime and a certain deceptacon leader would be more erotic than some porn I've seen.
[02:19] <Diablo-D3> (uNF *clang* uNF *clang* uNF *clang*)
[02:21] <Diablo-D3> Yup, I still have a nack for killing channels.
[02:21] <Keybuk> get a welding gun out, and you can have transformer bondage
[02:21] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: that'd be like supergluing people together
[02:22] <Diablo-D3> thats not bondage, thats just painful and illegal in most countries.
[02:22] <lifeless> Diablo-D3: depends if it is consensual
[02:22] <Diablo-D3> lifeless: if its consensual, then... I have no witty remark prepared for that eventuality.
[02:22] <lifeless> most bondage is
[02:22] <Diablo-D3> though, just be careful you dont paste your wang to something
[02:25] <elmo> stuuuuuuuuuub
[02:27] <Keybuk> dude, stub is irreplaceable
[02:27] <Diablo-D3> well aint that ironic.
[02:28] <lifeless> do not be monkey patching our dba
[02:50] <niemeyer> Hiho!
[03:02] <niemeyer> Cri.. cri.. cri..
[03:02] <niemeyer> :)
[03:06] <stu1> yo
[03:07] <stu1> elmo: elmoooooo
[03:15] <stub> Enigmail: Enigmime Service not available. To permanently avoid this alert, either fix the problem or uninstall Enigmail using the Enigmail->Preferences menu
[03:16] <stub> 'Something is fucked. To stop it being fucked fix it.'
[03:20] <ajmitch> yes, even 'system error' is more helpful :)
[03:21] <ajmitch> which has sort of impeded my universe fixing :)
[03:30] <jamesh> ajmitch: it does say "oops"
[03:32] <ajmitch> true
[05:16] <elmo> OK, *.ubuntu.com, launchpad.net, etc. is going down for some emergency network maintenance - ETD is 10 minutes or so
[05:53] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Cherry pick patch-2623 into production 1.36 (patch-5<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:41] <stub> 30 mins to merge, only to 'baz undo' due to spurious conflicts :-(
[06:42] <stub> I wonder if that will teach me not to merge in the wrong tree?
[06:48] <jamesh> is that with hard linked trees?
[06:55] <stub> yes
[07:00] <jamesh> was the 30 minutes due to network traffic?
[07:02] <stub> jamesh: no idea. There might have been as many as 20 revisions to download. baz doesn't tell me when it is accessing network resources and I wasn't running any external monitoring
[07:04] <jamesh> stub: iirc it caches downloaded patches in ~/.arch-cache, so the way to check would be to rerun the merge and see how long it takes (although that would be a waste of time)
[07:04] <stub> Indeed. Lets run the incorrect merge twice ;)
[07:05] <jamesh> do you know if Launchpad uses GPG keys for anything other than signature checks right now?
[07:07] <stub> I believe the workflow in validating a GPG involves encrypting a phrase and making the user decrypt it
[07:07] <stub> jamesh: ^^
[07:07] <jamesh> I know the verification step does encryption
[07:08] <jamesh> I'm just wondering if anything useful does anything other than signature checking
[07:09] <stub> Everything else is signature checking as far as I'm aware. But Kinnison might have changed that now (he might be signing packages, or maybe something else is doing that)
[07:11] <jamesh> next question: do you know if it is possible to have a key that can encrypt but not sign?
[07:41] <elmo> ok, *.ubuntu.com, launchpad.net going down again for emergency network maintenance. ETD is 10 mins.  Really this time.
[07:51] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Help Gina with her commitment problems (patch-2629<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:22] <SteveA> morning
[09:22] <SteveA> spiv: how are you today?
[09:25] <spiv> Much better.  Only a faint headache, which paracetamol should cure.
[09:25] <spiv> I've spent most of the day at lifeless's
[09:32] <SteveA> okay, that's good
[09:33] <SteveA> don't overdo it though
[09:33] <SteveA> you want to be in top form for UBZ
[09:35] <spiv> Yeah, I need to save my best illnesses for that ;)
[09:44] <SteveA> nothing contagious this time, please
[10:27] <SteveA> well...
[10:27] <SteveA> it's possible someone did, but a vary light version
[10:27] <SteveA> um, very
[10:28] <SteveA> but also, i guess most people had at least a very light version as a child
[10:28] <SteveA> except spiv
[10:28] <sabdfl> ctags -R -f ~mark/.tags --exclude=\{arch\} projects/ubuntu/launchpad
[10:28] <sabdfl> what's wrong with that?
[10:29] <sabdfl> goes to 99% cpu for days
[10:29] <SteveA> oddly, ctags did that for me, in the launchpad root, too
[10:29] <SteveA> i didn't investigate it
[10:29] <SteveA> instead, just made the ctags in lib
[10:29] <SteveA> hmm... maybe you have ++ or ,, stuff around
[10:29] <SteveA> baz turds
[10:30] <SteveA> that ctags is rooting around inside of
[10:35] <sabdfl> stracing it seems to suggest it was in a bind
[10:36] <sabdfl> doing nothing busily
[10:36] <Kinnison> Morning
[10:36] <ajmitch> morning Kinnison
[10:37] <Kinnison> hi ajm
[10:39] <SteveA> sabdfl: do you have any special baz directories around there?
[10:40] <sabdfl> SteveA: nup
[10:40] <SteveA> strange
[10:41] <SteveA> read(7, "", 4096)                       = 0
[10:47] <SteveA> sabdfl: it's the database/schema directory that is causing the problem
[10:49] <SteveA> it's an sql file that is doing it
[10:49] <SteveA> it is comments.sql
[10:53] <Kinnison> lifeless: did you manage to cast an eye over my branch?
[10:53] <Kinnison> lifeless: if not, don't worry, I'll ask stevea to
[10:59] <sabdfl> interesting
[10:59] <sabdfl> sounds like an upstream bug on ctags
[10:59] <SteveA> yeah
[10:59] <SteveA> i'm producing a minimal test case
[10:59] <sabdfl> could hardly be a bug on comments.sql ;-)
[10:59] <SteveA> it isn't a single line
[10:59] <SteveA> well, there might be some bad syntax
[10:59] <SteveA> eg text/* within a comment
[10:59] <SteveA> so, unescaped *
[11:00] <SteveA> dunno if that is poor syntax or not
[11:00] <sabdfl> i doubt ctags groks sql
[11:00] <SteveA> that's one of the lines involved in triggering the problem
[11:00] <SteveA> sure it does
[11:00] <SteveA> in a way
[11:00] <SteveA> ctags is aware of languages
[11:00] <sabdfl> hmmm..
[11:01] <SteveA> hmm...
[11:01] <SteveA> seems to be lines with a * or an \' in
[11:03] <SteveA> got it down to an 8 line example
[11:03] <SteveA> that hangs ctags
[11:08] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  add XML PI to person-rdf.pt and export hackergotchis and emblems (patch-2630<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:08] <SteveA> okay, i know what it is
[11:10] <SteveA> 8 characters
[11:10] <SteveA> to hang ctags
[11:10] <SteveA> and it applies only to if the file is called .sql
[11:10] <SteveA> not if the file is called .py
[11:12] <spiv> SteveA: does --language=-SQL help?
[11:13] <spiv> I guess --exclude=comments.sql could workaround it too.
[11:15] <sabdfl> SteveA: that should make a nice upstream bug report
[11:15] <SteveA> yep.  filing it now.
[11:18] <lifeless> Kinnison: garhg, no. symlinks made me cry
[11:18] <SteveA> another workaround is to use '' instead of \' in the comments
[11:18] <Kinnison> lifeless: s'okay
[11:18] <Kinnison> SteveA: will you cast an eye over a patch for me?
[11:19] <Kinnison> SteveA: it's the one at the bottom of stub's queue from me
[11:19] <Kinnison> stub: any chance you can give me a db blessing for my patch I added to your queue?
[11:19] <SteveA> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1324663&group_id=6556&atid=106556
[11:20] <SteveA> upload and queue
[11:20] <Kinnison> SteveA: aye
[11:20] <Kinnison> SteveA: but that specific patch
[11:20] <Kinnison> SteveA: otherwise you'll spend ages merging test data etc
[11:22] <SteveA> ok
[11:22] <SteveA> i need to rest my eyes for a while first though.  been reviewing celso and salgado's code all morning.
[11:24] <Kinnison> thanks
[11:24] <stub> Kinnison: The 'uploaders' column should be 'uploader', and the constraint attached to that column still thinks it is 'owner'
[11:24] <Kinnison> stub: why singular?
[11:25] <stub> Kinnison: Because it references only one person
[11:25] <Kinnison> stub: oh okay
[11:25] <stub> Kinnison: otherwise fine. You want a new patch number, or combine it with the previous one?
[11:25] <SteveA> sabdfl: what does ctags --version give for you?
[11:26] <Kinnison> I can do either. Which would you prefer?
[11:26] <stub> I'm not fussed. Combine it with the existing one unless it has already been installed on dogfood.
[11:29] <Kinnison> okay
[11:29] <Kinnison> It's not on DF
[11:32] <jamesh> Kinnison: if you have some free time at some point, could you see if https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/ValidatingSignOnlyGpgKeys sounds reasonable?
[11:36] <Kinnison> SteveA: assume that throughout, I change "uploaders" to "uploader", otherwise that patch is unchanged after applying stub's blessing
[11:36] <SteveA> k
[11:36] <Kinnison> well, obviously not where english is applicable, but YKWIM
[11:37] <SteveA> and i see a conflict on a change in tests from KeyError to NotFoundError
[11:38] <Kinnison> Pardon?
[11:38] <SteveA> there's a conflict you need to resolve, that i see when i'm using the pending-reviews output
[11:38] <Kinnison> Oh right
[11:40] <Kinnison> I'll catch that when I merge RF later once I have what's done blessed
[11:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: is the rest okay?
[11:52] <SteveA> a number of minor comments, and an architectural issue to consider
[11:52] <SteveA> oh, and one thing that clearly doesn't work
[11:53] <Kinnison> go on...
[11:54] <SteveA> i'm about to mail
[11:54] <Kinnison> fantastic
[11:54] <Kinnison> thanks
[11:56] <SteveA> sent
[11:56] <SteveA> Kinnison: will you be able to reply now, while it is still fresh in my mind?
[11:57] <Kinnison> SteveA: I'm doing it right now
[11:57] <Kinnison> ddaa: I have a bunch of stuff I'm trying to commit (not all the changes) and I want to commit a delete
[11:57] <Kinnison> ddaa: any clue how to do this?
[11:57] <Kinnison> ddaa: baz commit -s 'blah' -- deleted/file ==> exception
[12:02] <Kinnison> lifeless: ^^
[12:08] <lifeless> Kinnison: do a full commit
[12:08] <Kinnison> FFS
[12:09] <Kinnison> does bzr fix this?
[12:09] <Kinnison> jamesh: Looks fairly sane
[12:10] <Kinnison> jamesh: the second unresolved point... If you're not using emails, then you can't trust the uids on the key, but you can continue to trust the key itself
[12:16] <ddaa> sort of thing that would have been (at last) fixed by now if all the baz devs had not moved to bzr.
[12:18] <Kinnison> SteveA: instead of 'ensureSignature' how about 'enforceVerifiedSignature' ?
[12:18] <SteveA> the issue is, the name doesn't tell me that you use this method to get the signature back
[12:18] <SteveA> i don't expect it to have a significant return value
[12:19] <jamesh> Kinnison: at the moment uids on the keys are only used to add email addresses in the NEW state
[12:19] <Kinnison> jamesh: hmm
[12:19] <jamesh> Kinnison: the user still needs to go through the standard Launchpad email address verification for each address
[12:19] <Kinnison> jamesh: okay
[12:20] <Kinnison> SteveA: getVerifiedSignature then I guess
[12:20] <SteveA> okay
[12:27] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/
[12:27] <sabdfl> stub: could you tell me when that poll opens and closes please?
[12:28] <stub> launchpad_prod=# select id, dateopens, datecloses from poll;
[12:28] <stub>  id |      dateopens      |     datecloses
[12:28] <stub> ----+---------------------+---------------------
[12:28] <stub>   1 | 2005-10-15 23:11:00 | 2005-10-15 23:25:00
[12:28] <stub> (1 row)
[12:28] <stub> sabdfl: ^^^
[12:28] <Kinnison> sabdfl: urgh, that large amount of text is ugly
[12:29] <sabdfl> Kinnison: i didn't write it. i have patches
[12:29] <stub> That is a rather short poll...
[12:29] <sabdfl> the date handling is clearly bbrrrroookeeennn
[12:29] <Kinnison> heh
[12:30] <sabdfl> stub: could you jimmy that to run from sunday for two weeks please?
[12:30] <stub> Give me the times it should be, preferably UTC, and I
[12:30] <stub> ok
[12:30] <sabdfl> hmm... from friday for two weeks
[12:34] <stub> launchpad_prod=# select id, name, dateopens, datecloses from poll;
[12:34] <stub>  id |           name           |      dateopens      |     datecloses
[12:34] <stub> ----+--------------------------+---------------------+---------------------
[12:34] <stub>   1 | tb-nomination-mjg59-2005 | 2005-10-14 00:00:00 | 2005-10-29 00:00:00
[12:34] <stub> (1 row)
[12:35] <stub> That is midnight thursday to midnight saturday, so 15 days all up
[12:36] <stub> erm... midnight friday - midnight saturday
[12:37] <SteveA> Kinnison: are you filing the ICrowd bug, or shall i?
[12:38] <SteveA> thanks for the reply.  totally approved.
[12:38] <Kinnison> SteveA: will you please?
[12:38] <SteveA> sure
[12:38] <Kinnison> SteveA: since you know what you're on about :-)
[12:40] <SteveA> done
[12:41] <SteveA> but 3081, if you want to include that in the XXX
[12:41] <SteveA> bug 3081, if you want to include that in the XXX
[12:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3081: DistroComponentUploader should use ICrowd Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3081
[12:41] <Kinnison> I've started 'make check'
[12:41] <Kinnison> I'll wait until that's done to add the bug number
[02:05] <salgado> stub, around?
[02:05] <stub> salgado: yes
[02:05] <salgado> stub, are you okay with the fti I added in<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[02:05] <salgado> I guess you've seen it already, but am not sure
[02:06] <stub> salgado: yes. That is fine.
[02:07] <matsubara> good morning all
[02:11] <sabdfl> oops. BjornT: pint
[02:11] <sabdfl> ng
[02:22] <BjornT> sabdfl: pong
[02:23] <sabdfl> BjornT: the ticket system is supposed to email the owners of all "answered" tickets to ask them to "close" them
[02:23] <sabdfl> i forgot to do that cronscript
[02:23] <sabdfl> could you do so, please?
[02:23] <sabdfl> thanks
[02:24] <BjornT> sabdfl: sure, i'll do that
[02:24] <sabdfl> thanks muchly!
[02:25] <sabdfl> that way we know that the user has confirmed that the issue is closed. we record if it gets reopened
[02:46] <sabdfl> stub: ping
[02:46] <stub> sabdfl: pong
[02:46] <SteveA_> BjornT, lifeless, spiv, stub, salgado, jamesh: how about doing the review meeting a little earlier today?
[02:46] <SteveA_> salgado: are you working today?  it is a holiday in brazil, as i understand it
[02:46] <BjornT> SteveA_: that's ok for me
[02:48] <spiv> SteveA: It's ok for me.  lifeless told me he might not make it tonight, or be late, depending on trains and things.
[02:51] <SteveA_> hmm, X crashed
[02:51] <salgado> SteveA, it's okay for me too
[02:52] <spiv> SteveA: It's ok for me.  lifeless told me he might not make it tonight, or be late, depending on trains and things, so I guess it makes little difference to him too ;)
[02:53] <BjornT> SteveA_: it's ok for me as well
[02:54] <SteveA_> ok.  usual place
[02:56] <SteveA_> which is canonical-meeting
[02:58] <Kinnison> Is there a cheap way to turn a dict into a set of attributes?
[02:59] <SteveA_> Kinnison: a set of attributes?
[02:59] <SteveA_> in general, probably not, because it would be evil.
[02:59] <Kinnison> I see
[02:59] <Kinnison> fair enough
[02:59] <spiv> Well...
[02:59] <SteveA_> i mean, a dict can have all sorts of things as keys
[02:59] <spiv> self.__dict__.update(some_dict)
[02:59] <spiv> But it's not necessarily a good idea :)
[03:00] <SteveA_> jamesh: ping
[03:00] <SteveA_> if it is for syntactic sugar, don't
[03:00] <Kinnison> fine
[03:00] <spiv> Slightly more reliable is "for name, value in some_dict.iteritems(): setattr(obj, name, value)", but by that point you should probably do the assignments directly ;)
[03:02] <spiv> (it's not guaranteed that all objects have a __dict__ for you to twiddle, e.g. __slots__ interferes with that, and twiddling __dict__ also bypasses things like properties)
[03:05] <Kinnison> I.E. foo.bar ==> foo['bar']
[03:05] <Kinnison> it's fairly irrelevant right now
[03:05] <SteveA_> bradb: it is a holiday in brazil today
[03:05] <bradb> hm
[03:05] <SteveA_> bradb: kiko called me and should be around later nonetheless
[03:05] <bradb> I have a patch rotting in his review queue
[03:06] <bradb> More specifically, I followed up mid-yesterdayish and am looking forward to hearing back on it.
[03:07] <SteveA_> Kinnison: such a thing can be arranged in python.  it isn't a good idea though, because attribute access is so important in python.  it would make for confusing code.
[03:07] <Kinnison> aye
[03:10] <matsubara> Staging front page is crashing on me
[03:24] <sabdfl> jamesh: ping
[03:24] <sabdfl> hi niemeyer
[03:25] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Hiho!
[03:25] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  test data for uploader, r=stub db patch for mailing addresses and DistroComponentUploader, r=jamesh GPGHandler patch for raising exceptions on signature checks, r=stevea for the DCU code changes and the uploader config patches. (patch-2631<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:25] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Are we using some kind of AJAX in Launchpad?
[03:26] <sabdfl> wot's that?
[03:26] <sabdfl> you're like the 4th guy to mention it this week
[03:26] <sabdfl> shiny bling of the season?
[03:26] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Asynchronous JavaScript and XML
[03:26] <Kinnison> sabdfl: javascript app stuff
[03:26] <niemeyer> sabdfl: It's a new name for something old
[03:26] <spiv> sabdfl: what stuff like google suggest uses under the hood.
[03:26] <Kinnison> sabdfl: google maps is ajaz
[03:26] <Kinnison> erm s/z$/x/
[03:26] <niemeyer> Wow :)
[03:27] <Kinnison> Well, that merge makes me happy
[03:27] <sabdfl> ah. no, we're not yet. plan to eventually, for some of our forms
[03:27] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Basically RPC from javascript..
[03:28] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Cool.. I'm interested, so let me know if you need help.
[03:29] <sabdfl> we've got these popup selection boxes everywhere, and it would be nice to have google-suggests style dropdowns instead
[03:29] <sabdfl> search-as-you-type
[03:29] <SteveA_> there's a bit of work on getting nice ajax support upstream in zope3
[03:30] <sabdfl> but focus on the backend LP-for-branches till UBZ
[03:30] <Kinnison> spiv: did you ever merge your stop-on-first-error change?
[03:31] <niemeyer> sabdfl: Sure, I'm doing that. A bit blocked still, but ddaa should be finishing his stuff now.
[03:31] <ddaa> ?
[03:31] <sabdfl> cool
[03:31] <spiv> There's a cute hack I've seen using ajax + XUL to build UIs for servers (http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox), that's very bling ;)
[03:31] <niemeyer> ddaa: Hello :)
[03:31] <ddaa> niemeyer: aren't you on a holiday today?
[03:31] <niemeyer> ddaa: Yep!
[03:31] <spiv> Kinnison: Hmm, no.  I'll drop it on the review queue.
[03:33] <Kinnison> spiv: darn, could'a done with it right now
[03:33] <spiv> Kinnison: Well, you can merge it into your zope tree locally.
[03:34] <Kinnison> s'okay, I've started teeing the test output and using 'head' to find the real bug
[03:43] <sabdfl> stub: how hard is it to have a table A, which is joined to table B, with a text index on A that includes text from fields in B?
[03:44] <stub> sabdfl: It involves me rewriting the full text indexing code. Is there anything wrong with just querying the text index on table B?
[03:45] <sabdfl> i'm back at the "search through the package database" problem
[03:45] <sabdfl> it's thorny
[03:45] <stub> If you need to search text in both table A and B you can combine the results - there is an example at the end of 'textsearching.txt'
[03:45] <sabdfl> ok, will take a look at that
[03:46] <sabdfl> first trying to get the basics together so we can browse the package database
[03:46] <sabdfl> but it won't be fun without a good search
[04:18] <bslima> down ?
[04:21] <sivang> there are also now a spriniging load of sites providing web office services, all powered by ajax :)
[04:23] <sivang> one is even letting use use an ajax powered IM client, which is pretty neat.
[04:23] <zyga> sivang: ajax IM ?
[04:23] <sivang> zyga: yes, quite impressive
[04:24] <zyga> what will people think of next? ajax accounting system?
[04:24] <zyga> sivang: does it work in ff/konq
[04:24] <sivang> zyga: browser independent
[04:24] <sivang> zyga: work sweet in firefox
[04:24] <zyga> sivang: any url to have a look?
[04:24] <sivang> zyga: go to wikipedia page for ajax, there's a load of apps and services there using ajax
[04:25] <sivang> zyga: the IM company ios a startup of 4 grads from some uni in the states, i THINK
[04:25] <sivang> s/THINK/think/
[04:31] <zyga> laptops are abound, everyone already has a im client and rss reader
[04:43] <sivang> habe to go,
[04:43] <sivang> laters all
[04:49] <jbailey> Barry deFreese you're my hero ;)
[04:49] <Kinnison> jbailey: who?
[04:51] <zyga> WaterSevenUb: hello
[04:51] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, hi there...
[04:51] <jbailey> Kinnison: bddebian
[04:52] <Kinnison> jbailey: heh
[04:52] <jbailey> Oh. this isn't the motu channel
[04:52] <jbailey> Whups.  I didn't mean to poke at him in a channel where he's not. =)
[04:53] <jbailey> Right.  Window 24, not window 41.
[04:53] <jbailey> *sigh*
[05:05] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Increase the weight of component when scoring build jobs (patch-2632<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:15] <sabdfl> cprov: nice to be doing that kind of tuning :-)
[05:32] <salgado> BjornT, seen bugmail from #3083?
[05:33] <salgado> bradb, have you seen it? (^)
[05:33] <salgado> From<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:33] <cprov> sabdfl: yes, Kinnison suggest something better than 1,2,3,.. ;)
[05:33] <cprov> hour ...f ...
[05:36] <bradb> salgado: I don't appear to have gotten that bugmail, for some reason
[05:37] <salgado> weird
[05:38] <salgado> bradb, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filewzwazD.html
[05:39] <bradb> waaa. that's weird.
[05:41] <bradb> salgado: are you sure that's not the envelope from that's being shown there?
[05:41] <bradb> the envelope information is known to be borked, but not the From: header
[05:44] <salgado> why would it be that all my bugmail has the correct from: address, but this one not?
[05:44] <bradb> no idea
[06:11] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=stevea]  Landing NominatedArchIndep changes. (patch-2633<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:53] <bradb> SteveA: are you interested in reviewing the patch that fixes the issue of admins not being able to access private bugs? I'm just bazzing my way to a merge from rf/diff.
[06:55] <bradb> or salgado-lunch ?
[06:56] <SteveA> bradb: i can review it a bit later
[06:56] <SteveA> got a meeting now
[06:56] <bradb> ok
[06:57] <SteveA> bradb: how many LOC ?
[06:57] <bradb> dunno yet, probably a couple hundred
[06:58] <bradb> mainly because I completely reformatted the privacy part of the doctests, because it was hurting my brain to try and maintain it
[06:58] <SteveA> okay
[06:58] <SteveA> i'm interested in reviewing it, probably in 1 hour, okay?
[06:58] <bradb> sounds good, thanks
[07:12] <salgado> SteveA, would you want to discuss anything on my reply to your code review or can I merge?
[07:12] <SteveA> salgado: i need to look at that replacement for the complex code
[07:13] <SteveA> but go and merge, and if there is a problem, you can fix it after
[07:18] <salgado> great. ta!
[07:37] <SteveA> salgado: just read that code.  it is very much clearer now.  thanks for working to make it so.
[07:59] <SteveA> bradb: i'll be able to do a review for you in 15 mins
[07:59] <SteveA> Kinnison: if you're around, any reviews needed?
[08:01] <Kinnison> thanks, but I'm okay for now
[08:05] <bradb> SteveA: hopefully  baz will be ready for you
[08:08] <salgado> (of course, I have to admit that I don't have swap)
[08:08] <Kinnison> Not having swap is a bit scary
[08:08] <elmo> SteveA: FYI, the librarian has hit the redline space-wise
[08:08] <SteveA> well... it is just like having a finite amount of swap
[08:08] <SteveA> elmo: thanks.  stub has been writing the GC code.
[08:08] <elmo> SteveA: /dev/sda3             537G  309G  201G  61% /
[08:09] <SteveA> elmo: can you reset the line to another 50G lower?
[08:09] <SteveA> we should have deployed the GC by then
[08:10] <elmo> ok
[08:12] <Kinnison> We'd better
[08:13] <SteveA> Kinnison: hmm, started already?
[08:14] <SteveA> elmo: okay, set the red line to 50G absolute.  we'll run around in a blind panic if the GC isn't ready when we hit it.
[08:15] <Kinnison> SteveA: stub was ready to go IIRC
[08:15] <SteveA> cprov: i still have presenting-buildlogs to review for you, don't i?
[08:16] <SteveA> Kinnison: i'll ask him tomorrow
[08:16] <cprov> SteveA: nop, it's already done as trivial
[08:16] <Kinnison> SteveA: okay
[08:16] <SteveA> +            raise TypeError('Bad File Descriptior: %s' % repr(file))
[08:17] <SteveA> you can use %r for that
[08:17] <Kinnison> what who where?
[08:17] <SteveA> to cprov
[08:17] <Kinnison> oh right
[08:17] <SteveA> cprov: other than that note, i'd have approved it ;-)
[08:18] <cprov> SteveA: uhm .. thanks I will repair it
[08:29] <bradb> SteveA: diff sent
[08:33] <bradb> any particularly nagging malone bugs people want fixed, or should I just pull another one from the queue?
[08:34] <bradb> mm, ok, n/m, found one ;)
[08:37] <bradb> I've not yet written a patch to be explicitly cherry-pickable. I guess I just 1. branch off production, 2. fix stuff. 3. ask stub to cherry-pick that branch, 4. create another branch off rf and 5. merge the cherry-pickable one into that branch?
[08:38] <bradb> salgado: Is that what you do?
[08:39] <salgado> bradb, I usually do the other way around. first I create a branch of the mainline and apply the fix there
[08:40] <salgado> if, by any reason, that fix is not cherry-pickable, then I backport that to a production branch
[08:40] <bradb> so you wait until stub says "i can't cherrypick this because it has conflicts"?
[08:40] <salgado> no, I do that myself
[08:41] <salgado> you can do that on chinstrap; it's pretty quick
[08:41] <bradb> salgado: how do you do that, try merging into the prod branch?
[08:41] <salgado> just baz get launchpad--production--x.yy launchpad ; cd launchpad ; baz merge your-branch
[08:41] <bradb> right
[09:11] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Allow shipit admins to search for requests based on the recipient's name or email address, plus a lot of refactoring. r=SteveA (patch-2634<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:18] <Kinnison> ciao dudes
[09:19] <SteveA> bradb: i have no mail from you
[09:20] <bradb> SteveA: strange. i sent it again.
[09:27] <bradb> SteveA: did you get it?
[09:27] <SteveA> yes
[09:28] <bradb> ok
[09:48] <SteveA> bradb: reviewed
[09:49] <bradb> SteveA: ah, sorry, i forgot to tell you to ignore that "debugme" thing. it was a temp thing i did to debug a test failure and i removed it after spotting it in the diff ;)
[09:52] <bradb> et a serait plus comme "tu as port une tuque quand t'as crit a, l?" :P
[09:52] <bradb> french canadians have no idea that there's that whole "eh" thing with canada.
[09:53] <SteveA> no way
[09:53] <bradb> ouais way!
[09:53] <SteveA> i think we should get UBZ tuques for the conference
[09:53] <SteveA> UBZ on the front, and "eh" on the back
[09:54] <bradb> in english it's toque :P
[09:54] <SteveA> yay -- my test found a bug!
[09:56] <SteveA> you know, my french has totally gone dormant now i'm learning lithuanian
[09:56] <SteveA> i can't even think of a french sentence any more
[09:56] <bradb> montreal'll bring it back
[09:57] <SteveA> no way.  i'll be waaay confused.
[09:58] <SteveA> salgado: ping?
[09:58] <salgado> SteveA, pong
[09:59] <SteveA> salgado: do you have time to do a review for me?
[09:59] <salgado> if it's not too big, sure
[09:59] <SteveA> thanks
[09:59] <SteveA> i'll prepare a diff
[10:03] <bradb> right, must go to get lots more memory before the store closes. will merge the privacy/admin fix later on.
[10:03] <bradb> ciao
[10:24] <SteveA> salgado: mailed you something to review
[10:25] <salgado> SteveA, got it. what's it for?
[10:25] <SteveA> it makes breadcrumbs work almost as stated in the https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHierarchyNavigation spec
[10:26] <SteveA> the only thing not implemented is the trailing ">" if the URL is longer than the link, and making links to the current URL unlinked.
[10:26] <SteveA> i also introduced a smartquote() function
[10:26] <SteveA> to keep mpt happy
[10:38] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  redirect +bugs to +assignedbugs for a person, in lieu of a more thought-out design for what $person/+bugs will look like (patch-2635<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:57] <sabdfl> man
[10:57] <sabdfl> my little laptop is burning up
[10:57] <sabdfl> i'm importing Kinnison's dogfood database in there
[10:58] <sabdfl> burnin'
[10:58] <jbailey> sabdfl: You're scarin' me this close to release. =)
[10:58] <sabdfl> jbailey: stop! acpi issues!
[10:59] <jbailey> =)
[11:02] <SteveA> hey salgado, how's that review doing?
[11:02] <SteveA> i was hoping to get it into pqm before going home, but it's getting pretty late here already.
[11:04] <salgado> SteveA, just finished the review for jamesh. will start yours now
[11:05] <sabdfl> jamesh: ping
[11:06] <SteveA> i expect james will be around in several hours' time
[11:07] <ajmitch> morning :)
[11:11] <matsubara> :q
[11:11] <matsubara> er
[11:13] <lifeless> jah, its 5am there
[11:15] <sabdfl> lifeless: could you ask him about the schedul-o-matic when you see him, please?
[11:15] <lifeless> sure thing
[11:15] <lifeless> anything in particular?
[11:15] <lifeless> like - 'is it ready'  ?
[11:15] <SteveA> salgado: don't rush the review.  i'm going home, but i'll try to answer your review points and maybe merge it tomorrow morning.  cheers.
[11:17] <SteveA> sabdfl: when i spoke with him about the bugzilla conversion thing, i asked him to put the bugzilla -> malone thing at a higher priority than the schedulomatic work.
[11:17] <SteveA> but, i don't know how far along he is with the scheduling stuff
[11:17] <sabdfl> ok, thanks
[11:17] <lifeless> so, just a status query then
[11:17] <SteveA> lifeless: maybe you can talk with him about his design ideas for the scheduling stuff
[11:18] <lifeless> SteveA: happy to
[11:19] <SteveA> thanks
[11:21] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=stevea]  Missing +builds page for distribution, reusing code from build-list.pt (patch-2636<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:22] <salgado> SteveA, when you add a breadcrumb() method to a class, don't you need to pass it to @stepthrough()?
[11:45] <ddaa> xfelon: please be nice and disable the auto-away message
[11:46] <xfelon> SORRY
[11:46] <xfelon> i will leave


[12:51]  * nigelb waves to AlanBell
[12:51] <AlanBell> o/ nigelb
[12:51] <nigelb> AlanBell: http://twitpic.com/6t78bd
[12:52] <AlanBell> yeah, saw that
[12:52] <nigelb> :D
[12:52] <nigelb> They sent flowers as well.
[12:52] <nigelb> White flowers for everyone as apology.
[12:53] <AlanBell> how sweet
[12:53] <AlanBell> the firefox and IE teams send each other cake for their releases
[12:54] <nigelb> I know that one :)
[12:54] <nigelb> IE team now sends cupcake.