[00:10] <David-A> mikubuntu: if it is connected via sata or pata maybe. I dont know about laptops.
[00:19] <mikubuntu> David-A: how can i install or enable a force close with the terminal?
[00:20] <mikubuntu> David-A: for some reason i can't close startup disk creator
[00:22] <David-A> mikubuntu: pkill  (do you know about kill? pkill takes a program name instead of a process id)
[00:23] <mikubuntu> David-A: can you elaborate -- yes i remember using killall sometime a long time ago -- but there was a little 'forceclose' app that i used more recently where you just put the cursor in the top bar of the offending program and clicked to forececlose
[00:24] <mikubuntu> *forceclose
[00:36] <David-A> mikubuntu: come back, it is xkill
[01:06] <mikubuntu> ok, there is definitely something going on here -- xubuntu 12.04 is supposed to be NON-PAE, so WHY am i getting a message in bootloading that pae is not present on the CPU? i just reloaded the stick with x-12.04 (twice) and problem persisting.
[01:06] <Unit193> What application are you using to create the bootable flash?
[01:08] <mikubuntu> been using startup disk creator
[01:08] <Unit193> Try DD, I suspect that application is doing something wrong.
[01:08] <mikubuntu> i think so too
[01:08] <mikubuntu> lol
[01:14] <mikubuntu> Unit193: and xfburn and brasero apparently don't want to write to stick -- only option showing for them is the cd drive .... arrrrrrrghhhhh
[01:15] <mikubuntu> oh, i'm just seeing you said use DD, but i'm not familiar with it
[01:16] <Unit193> Like http://askubuntu.com/questions/59551/how-to-burn-iso-to-usb-device
[01:21] <mikubuntu> Unit193: i don't think that will work for me -- i can't really follow it
[01:22] <mikubuntu> i thought gparted automagically formatted ntfs to stick?
[01:42] <mikubuntu> Unit193: tried once AGAIN burning to the stick -- wish me luck
[01:54] <mikubuntu> thats it, i quit, i'm moving on -- for today anyways -- been trying to get this install done since about 4pm and its almost 10 now. my eyes and my brain are starting to fail me. thx for all the help, prolly be back tomorrow.
[02:09] <xubuntu737> hello guys i'm new to lunix and i have a question
[02:09] <xubuntu737> anybody here plz
[02:09] <xubuntu737> ?
[02:11] <xubuntu737> hello
[02:11] <ur0pl> ersio/part
[02:12] <xubuntu737> what do they mean by you are eligible to security updates for three years as opposed to the not-too-shabby-either eighteen months that you get with the normal releases.?
[02:12] <xubuntu737> that means i will not have security update after 18 months ?
[02:14] <Unit193> You can upgrade to the new version.
[02:15] <xubuntu737> ok thanks because that really worried me
[02:15] <xubuntu737> if i don't get the update why bother installing it you know .
[02:23] <xubuntu737> new here guys need more information i didn't see in the site
[02:24] <xubuntu737> anyone wants to help and answer my questions
[02:24] <xubuntu737> ?
[02:26] <vorsorken> just ask your questions and people will jump in if they know the answers
[02:27] <xubuntu737> ok
[02:28] <xubuntu737> when you upgrade do you lose your files ...etc or you keep everything ?
[02:29] <xubuntu737> installing the new releases to keep getting security update coming in
[02:29] <xubuntu737> right ?
[02:35] <vorsorken> your files should remain intact after upgrade but back up everything you don't want to lose just in case
[02:43] <xubuntu737> thanks man sorry for my late reply this damn windows freezes all the time
[02:45] <xubuntu737> i'm new so plz forgive me for my stupid questions
[02:47] <xubuntu737> which the fastest and stable destro ; xubuntu,lubuntu,puppy,mint... ? that's what i'm trying to choose to install in my old computer
[04:23] <shankstaBytes> can i remove the bottom panel in xubuntu?
[04:24] <holstein> shankstaBytes: i would personally experiment either in a new "test" user account, or in the guest account, or from a live CD
[04:24] <Unit193> Ctrl+right click remove.
[04:25] <shankstaBytes> it wont let me remove panel 1
[04:25] <shankstaBytes> should i just use open box?
[04:25] <shankstaBytes> i dont know much about different DEs
[04:25] <shankstaBytes> i usually just use unity or gnome
[04:25] <holstein> shankstaBytes: what are the errors?.. do you want to remove the panel or use openbox?
[04:26] <shankstaBytes> i want the path of least resistance
[04:26] <holstein> shankstaBytes: learning new things can take time.. what do you want to do?
[04:27] <shankstaBytes> i guess i just dont have much time but all i know is i can't remove the bottom panel on xfce
[04:28] <holstein> shankstaBytes: sure..have you tried Unit193 's suggestion? what is the error?
[04:28] <Unit193> You can't hit the minus sign?  Then something is amiss, in permissions or otherwise.
[04:28] <shankstaBytes> nope it is grayed out
[04:28] <shankstaBytes> disabled
[04:28] <shankstaBytes> i removed the top panel no problem
[04:28] <holstein> i dont think you can get rid of all panels that way
[04:29] <holstein> shankstaBytes: i would just use openbox.. or kill the xfce panel application..
[04:29] <shankstaBytes> ya xubuntu uses lightdm so i can easily switch back to xfce if openbox sucks right
[04:30] <holstein> shankstaBytes: well.. nothing "sucks".. it'll just be soemthing that doesnt "fit your needs"
[04:30] <shankstaBytes> ya thats what i mean
[04:30] <holstein> shankstaBytes: openbox has no panels by default..
[04:30] <Madoka_Miku> Has anybody else had problem with *buntu messing up the profiles in firefox so that it makes it inaccessible. I get the message "Your Firefox profile cannot be loaded. It may be missing or inaccessible.", followed by a I/O error.
[04:31] <holstein> Madoka_Miku: i havent use FF long term in a while, but i would try as another user.. sounds like a permissions issue maybe?
[04:32] <Madoka_Miku> I tried setting the entire .mozilla directory to user, but it still says the same thing. I'm pretty sure that it is a permissions issue, because sudo firefox works just fine.
[04:32] <Unit193> Madoka_Miku: I've not hit that.
[04:33] <holstein> Madoka_Miku: you shouldnt have to "set" anything anyways special...
[04:33] <holstein> Madoka_Miku: running FF as root is not a good idea
[04:33] <Madoka_Miku> I would run it as user if I could.
[04:33] <Unit193> Indeed not, and that there could mess up the permissions. :P
[04:34] <holstein> yup.. thats the only time i ever saw a message like that
[04:34] <Madoka_Miku> Deleting .mozilla doesn't fix anything.
[04:34] <holstein> Madoka_Miku: i would try as a new user..
[04:34] <Unit193> Tried a chown -R on it?
[04:34] <Madoka_Miku> Not yet.
[04:35] <Madoka_Miku> Still pretty new to this, so could you help me a little on the specific command?
[04:35] <Madoka_Miku> I would appreciate it so much.
[04:36] <holstein> !chown
[04:36] <holstein> i usually make a new user, and if things are fine in the new user account i know its not the application, or the operating system.. its the user account
[04:37] <Unit193> sudo chown $(id -u):$(id -g) .mozilla/ -R
[04:37] <Unit193> And trying in a new user of course is a sound idea.
[04:38] <Madoka_Miku> That command gave no output.
[04:38] <Unit193> It wouldn't, reading up on it is a good idea.
[04:38] <Madoka_Miku> I'm still reading the article that ubottu gave me.
[04:40] <Madoka_Miku> And Firefox still gives me the same error. So I guess that I will make a new profile then. Thank you for your help, all of you.
[04:42] <holstein> Madoka_Miku: how about as a new user?
[04:42] <Unit193> He's trying it now.
[06:26] <uangbesar> hello. im running lubuntu after i closed my lid and opened it back up all my panel items were to the left instead of the traditional bottom right corner
[06:27] <bazhang> try #lubuntu uangbesar
[06:27] <uangbesar> sorry didnt know there was a lubuntu channel
[06:28] <bazhang> they would know the best about that, I'd imagine
[06:28] <uangbesar> thought it was very similar
[06:29] <bazhang> lxde/openbox  and xfce4?
[06:29] <nukke> they're rather different window manageres
[06:29] <bazhang> yeah, not so much
[06:29] <uangbesar> xubuntu is one step below lubuntu or vise versa?
[06:30] <bazhang> none are below or above
[06:30] <uangbesar> as far as using a netbook
[06:37] <xubuntu460> Hi all, just a quick question: why do I get the new release message when I log in (ssh) ? It weird...: Welcome to Ubuntu 13.04 (GNU/Linux 3.8.0-23-generic i686)   * Documentation:  https://help.ubuntu.com/  0 packages can be updated. 0 updates are security updates.  New release '13.04' available. Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it.
[06:37] <xubuntu460> "Welcome to Ubuntu 13.04" versus "New release '13.04'" ???
[07:07] <luk___> hi
[07:08] <luk___> having the laptop with EFI partition ... which partition I should point (in the installer) as a target for boot loader installation?
[07:11] <luk___> I've tried /dev/sda and /dev/sda2 (efi partition) and in both cases installation shows warning that in case of my partition table format (I use GPT) a separate partition for bootloader is required
[07:11] <luk___> do you have any experience with that?
[08:11] <luk___> hmm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1025555
[08:35] <carrera> Greetings!  :)
[11:37] <Guest5243> hello everyone
[11:37] <Guest5243> pls give me link to openbox irc
[11:37] <TheSheep> !hi | Guest5243
[11:40] <Guest5243> skype has problems in openbox, as it doesn't seem to give needed framework titles with close, minimise and other buttons
[11:42] <TheSheep> Guest5243: I see you found the channel already
[11:42] <Guest5243> 2 people?
[11:42] <TheSheep> Guest5243: well, skype is not an open source program, so there is very little that can be done
[11:43] <Guest5243> but why does other de manages to fit skype in window
[11:43] <TheSheep> maybe there will be some hints on the troubleshooting wiki page
[11:43] <TheSheep> !skype | Guest5243
[11:43] <TheSheep> Guest5243: probably they have some kind of workarounds for it
[12:00] <Guest5243> I guess skype doesnt give window decorations itself, but openbox clearly ignores that
[12:00] <Guest5243> I like xfce, but I find openbox better as kiosk design
[12:01] <Guest5243> none of noob users can change panels, settings or anything, with pushing remove button
[12:01] <Guest5243> or such things
[12:02] <constantin_mike> hello
[12:02] <constantin_mike> i'm trying to remove, with sed, some text from some files
[12:02] <constantin_mike> i'm doing this
[12:02] <constantin_mike> find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/<script(\s+)type=\"text/javascript\"(\s+)src="http://sodiummetal.com(.*).php"></script>//g'
[12:02] <constantin_mike> but i get this error
[12:02] <constantin_mike> sed: -e expression #1, char 55: unknown option to `s'
[12:03] <constantin_mike> what would the problem be?
[12:05] <TheSheep> constantin_mike: unescaped slashes
[12:06] <TheSheep> constantin_mike: use some other character, like ;
[12:06] <TheSheep> 's;<script(\s+)type=\"text/javascript\"(\s+)src="http://sodiummetal.com(.*).php"></script>;;g'
[12:07] <constantin_mike> so replacing / with ; will make it work?
[12:07] <TheSheep> as long as the pattern you are matching has no ; in it
[12:07] <constantin_mike> ran this
[12:07] <constantin_mike> find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i s;<script(\s+)type=\"text/javascript\"(\s+)src="http://sodiummetal.com(.*).php"></script>;;g
[12:07] <constantin_mike> now it says
[12:07] <constantin_mike> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[12:08] <TheSheep> you need those single quotes
[12:08] <constantin_mike> my pattern doesn't contain ;
[12:08] <TheSheep> but it contains /
[12:08] <constantin_mike> hmm
[12:08] <constantin_mike> ok, let me rework it
[12:08] <TheSheep> you removed the single quotes and now bash is interpreting the parens
[12:09] <constantin_mike> great
[12:09] <constantin_mike> fixed it
[12:09] <constantin_mike> find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/<script(\s+)type=\"text\/javascript\"(\s+)src="http:\/\/sodiummetal.com(.*).php"><\/script>//g'
[12:09] <constantin_mike> it worked like this
[12:10] <constantin_mike> (yes, i did. silly me)
[12:11] <zephyr28> Very odd glitch: every time I log off or reboot, the Xubuntu login screen's wallpaper shows whatever was on my screen when I logged out/rebooted.  This last time, however, the wallpaper shown on the login screen was  my wallpaper from my WINDOWS installation!  What is up with this??
[12:11] <constantin_mike> TheSheep, it still didn't remove that text from my files
[12:13] <constantin_mike> this is the content i want to modify
[12:13] <constantin_mike> http://pastie.org/private/urlwcmaimuxkdg9lfrn7xq
[12:22] <Guest5243> zephyr28, nautilus with desktop does this
[12:22] <asdzor> Hi. My default settings from ~/.Xresources are overriden each reboot. I tried to put "xrdb -load ${HOME}/.Xresources" in ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession but it doesn't being executed (it's chmod u+x)
[12:23] <Guest5243> I don't know if you can see wallpaper from windows box, unless you have set it in any of linux DE, that work in background
[12:25] <luk___> Hi
[12:26] <luk___> xubuntu installer seems to not discover my EFI partition ... or maybe it's just me
[12:27] <luk___> is it really required to create 1MB partition where bootloader will be installed to?
[12:27] <luk___> (in case of EFI )
[12:44] <zephyr28> Guest5243, any idea how to fix it?
[12:44] <Guest5243> don't use background processes, that manage desktop or wallpaper
[12:45] <Guest5243> I was just guessing it is nautilus there
[12:46] <zephyr28> Guest5243, I haven't set any such things myself.  Also can't figure out for the life of my how or why linux would grab the wallpaper from my Windows that's installed on a separate hard drive...
[12:47] <Guest5243> you don't have nautilus installed?
[12:47] <Guest5243> I can't imagine other possibility
[12:47] <cfhowlett> zephyr28, if you imported accounts from Windows it would do exactly that
[12:47] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, nope.  Didn't do it.
[12:47] <Guest5243> cfhowlett what accounts you can import
[12:48] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, did you read my original question?  very strange and huge security risk.
[12:48] <Guest5243> first when you log off, xfdesktop stops managing your desktop
[12:49] <Guest5243> so everything in background shows , what was there
[12:49] <cfhowlett> zephyr28, no I just got here and saw your wallpaper query
[12:49] <Guest5243> usually if someone launches nautilus with desktop, it doesn't takes over xfdesktop, but manages it in background
[12:49] <cfhowlett> Guest5243, on dual boot, you have the option to "import" windows stuff.  copies over documents and some preferences.
[12:50] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, when rebooting or logging out, the Xubuntu login screen wallpaper becomes a screenshot of whatever was on my desktop at the time that I logged out.
[12:50] <Guest5243> on which ubuntu, xubuntu version ever
[12:50] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, but the last time I rebooted (coming from Windows), it was actually displaying a garbled copy of my WINDOWS wallpaper.
[12:51] <Guest5243> I can't imagine such possibility
[12:51] <Guest5243> sorry
[12:52] <cfhowlett> zephyr28, WHAAA?  ow ow ow.  Never heard of anything like that, but I'd look at Setttings/Session and Startup/Application Autostart
[12:53] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, yeah, I can't imagine it happening either; no idea whatsoever of what could possibly cause it.  When it was just showing my Xubuntu session screen, I thought maybe a bug in my graphics driver that was somehow caching the screen incorrectly.  Then the windows wallpaper happened. At a total loss.
[12:54] <cfhowlett> zephyr28, this is dual boot still?
[12:54] <zephyr28> cfhowlett, yes.
[12:54] <cfhowlett> zephyr28, personally, I'd reformat and reinstall windows then xubuntu.
[12:57] <Guest5243> I would personally remove windows at all, when my laptop will come back from tech center
[12:57] <Guest5243> never touch fixing MBR with easyBCD or that partition manager inside windows
[12:57] <Guest5243> my hard drive got lost
[12:58] <cfhowlett> Guest5243, best to let windows handle the initial mbr stuff
[12:58] <Guest5243> I don't know what I was thinking when I tried to use windows partition manager
[12:59] <cfhowlett> Guest5243, but you learned so much from that experience, right?
[12:59] <Guest5243> yeah, I learned that laptops have smaller hard drives
[13:01] <Guest5243> I would probably install system, configure it to "death", but files were more important all the time
[13:48] <Starcraftmazter> hi
[13:48] <Starcraftmazter> intel is really screwing up my fglrx
[13:48] <Starcraftmazter> is there a way to blacklist it or something
[13:58] <holstein> Starcraftmazter: whats the issue?
[14:15] <xubuntu739> hi need a little help with screen resolution,  i can not change the resolution 1024*768 to 1366*768
[14:16] <knome> ...good luck
[14:27] <SonikkuAmerica> knome: ikr? "Helpmehelpmehelpme!" /quit
[15:21] <conductor> i like xubuntu
[15:41] <GridCube> :)
[15:43] <SonikkuAmerica> :::)))
[15:44] <SonikkuAmerica> (All 6 eyes and 3 mouths)
[17:27] <fluffypony> ola
[17:28] <fluffypony> so I'm installing Xubuntu 12.04 from a USB flash drive on to a USB flash drive on the same system
[17:28] <fluffypony> boots into the install no problem, but it doesn't seem to detect the target drive
[17:28] <fluffypony> how do I drop to a terminal to check lsusb?
[17:28] <fluffypony> tried the usual alt+fkeys
[17:28] <bazhang> ctrol alt f1
[17:29] <bazhang> ctrl alt f7 to get back
[17:29] <fluffypony> tks :)
[19:57] <keith_> I changed the Terminal color scheme via the terminal settings using one of the presets. I'd like to get the Xubuntu default theme back. How can I do that?
[19:58] <Unit193> cp /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/terminal/terminalrc ~/.config/xfce4/terminal/  and you should be good.
[19:59] <keith_> less /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/terminal/terminalrc
[19:59] <keith_> woops
[19:59] <keith_> meant to view it first >.<
[19:59] <Unit193> Good move.
[20:01] <keith_> Ok looks good. Thank you.
[20:24] <Guest58794> using 13.04, updater won't work?
[20:57] <xubuntu675> hello
[21:12] <Aleksander> Hello. I am using the freshest 13.04 xUbuntu and I keep getting xfce4-session segfault. I can't compile my own package, is there a fix somewhere?
[21:17] <Aleksander> can I just turn xfce4-manager off?
[21:17] <Aleksander> xfce4-session *
[21:52] <xubuntu351> hi, I need some help involving downloading programs for xubuntu?
[21:53] <xubuntu351> my computer running xubuntu cannot connect to the internet, so I want to download the software via my windows computer and transfer it, but is this possible?
[21:53] <xubuntu351> most software I(ve found is only available via the software downloader thing built in to xubuntu
[23:08] <ner0x> Trying to install 12.04.2 LTS results in this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9jzPjY8PbNNaElvX3BXZDYzU1k/edit?usp=sharing Any idea what it is?
[23:08] <ner0x> Best I could do was snap a photo and do this on my laptop.
[23:12] <yourfriendarmand> try a memtest, make sure your memory is clean?


[07:02] <mlankhorst> morning
[07:02] <mlankhorst> Trevinho: probably in the backport stack?
[07:07] <mlankhorst> the kernel that trusty uses by default doesn't support dri3 render nodes yet
[08:03] <Laney> hey hey hey
[08:05] <mvo> hey seb128 and Laney!
[08:05] <mvo> and good morning jodh
[08:06] <jodh> mvo: morning!
[08:06] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:06] <seb128> hey mvo, Laney, jodh, how are you?
[08:07] <didrocks> good morning Laney, mvo, seb128!
[08:07] <seb128> lut didrocks!
[08:07] <jodh> seb128: ça va bien merci. Et toi?
[08:08] <seb128> jodh, ça va bien également, merci ;-)
[08:08] <mvo> hey didrocks
[08:08] <Laney> very good!
[08:09] <seb128> great ;-)
[08:21] <seb128> did anybody else got amazon added to their launcher for them with recent updates?
[08:23] <Laney> might have done actually
[08:24] <Laney> I think there was a session migration script for webapps
[08:24] <seb128> not nice webapps!
[08:24] <Laney> yeah
[08:24] <Laney> run that script and it gets added
[08:25] <seb128> bah
[08:25] <Laney> /usr/share/session-migration/scripts/install-default-webapps-in-launcher.py
[08:25] <seb128> when did that get added?
[08:25] <Laney> april 03 apparently
[08:25] <Laney> or that's when I got it
[08:25] <seb128> I wonder why it just happened this morning for me
[08:25] <seb128> I've been updating/restarting daily
[08:26] <Laney> it gets re-run if the file is updated i think
[08:26] <Laney> that could have happened
[08:30] <seb128> I don't have that file though
[08:30] <seb128> so not likely due to it
[08:31] <dpm> morning desktop folks. I've noticed that on my desktop the time and date settings dialog now appears untranslated. Anyone else having this issue?
[08:31] <seb128> dpm, hey, no, wfm
[08:31] <seb128> dpm, are the other settings pages showing translated for you?
[08:32] <dpm> seb128, yes all the others appear translated
[08:32] <seb128> dpm, when did the issue start?
[08:32] <dpm> and the time & date thing has been translated for ages, just noticed over the weekend that it's back to English
[08:33] <dpm> I don't know when it started, I just noticed it last Saturday
[08:33] <seb128> dpm, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/unity-control-center/+pots/unity-control-center/ca/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all suggests your translations are incomplete
[08:34] <seb128> dpm, looks like appareance is also mostly untranslated
[08:34] <dpm> yeah, appearance is known
[08:34] <dpm> but are the time & date settings now there?
[08:34] <dpm> wtf Launchpad
[08:34] <seb128> dpm, those were in different domain until january when we introduced unity-control-center
[08:35] <seb128> dpm, we merged those panels in u-c-c
[08:35] <seb128> where they were external sources with g-c-c
[08:35] <dpm> ah, I missed that, bummer, that won't make it to the final langpack
[08:35] <dpm> seb128, anyway, thanks for the help figuring out!
[08:35] <seb128> dpm, yw
[08:36] <seb128> dpm, I even sent https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2014-February/006410.html
[08:36] <dpm> seb128, that's fine, my mistake
[08:37] <seb128> dpm, but yeah, not easy to keep track of those issues, and we use enough english that we barely notice english strings in normal course of action
[08:37] <seb128> that happens to me as well :/
[08:52] <Laney> alex_abreu: hey, can you think of a way to have the webapps migration script not add amazon again if the user already removed it before?
[09:16] <mvo> Laney: changelogs.u.c is updating again
[09:17] <mvo> Laney: and the underlying issue is hopefully fixed as well (no default socket timeout in the extractor)
[09:17] <Laney> mvo: nice
[09:17] <Laney> was it hung?
[09:17] <mvo> Laney: yeah, I couldn't do a strace, but lsof showed a open https connection to lp so I strongly assume that the connection got stale and it never recovered from that
[09:18] <Laney> nod
[09:18] <Laney> thanks for fixing!
[09:18] <mvo> no problem, thanks for letting me know about the problem in the first place
[09:19] <Laney> It was because apt was spewing those 'changelog not found' messages to me
[09:24] <mvo> :) I wonder if its worthwhile to add a nagios check or something - I will do that when it hangs the next time (I hope there is no next time and the fix is good)
[09:31] <Laney> Just snapped the lid off my kettle
[09:31]  * Laney fails
[09:31]  * Laney becomes tea deprived
[09:34] <mlankhorst> mmm tea
[09:34] <Laney> post me some
[09:39] <seb128> Laney, backup plan: water in a pot on the stove
[09:40] <Laney> nah you can kind of wedge the lid back on
[09:40] <Laney> pretty dodgy but it works well enough
[09:40] <Laney> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Morphy-Richards-43827-Accents-Traditional/dp/B007Y51OLI/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen-appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1397554371&sr=1-4 ordered that beauty to replace it
[09:40] <seb128> doh
[09:41] <seb128> that's an expensive kettle!
[09:41] <Laney> gotta pay the price for style :P
[09:41] <seb128> ;-)
[09:42] <knome> a real tea addict would just put the extra money on more tea
[10:02] <mvo> Laney: i got one similar to http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russell-Hobbs-18365-Glass-Kettle/dp/B007NHJFMC/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1397556049&sr=1-2&keywords=kettle+temperature+hobbs - for the green tea that needs exact tempertures :)
[10:02] <Laney> mvo: hahaha
[10:02]  * mvo goes and gets some lunch (with tea)
[10:02] <Laney> I saw one with a programmable display and decided that would be too much
[10:02] <mvo> hehe
[10:03] <Laney> but black tea is all I have, and that's fine at 100°
[10:03] <seb128> tea addicts...
[10:03] <seb128> mvo, don't listen to Laney, he's the sort of person that put milk in their tea
[10:03] <Laney> mmmmmm
[10:03]  * seb128 wonders how much of an offense that is for mvo ;-)
[10:29] <dpm> seb128, shall I remove gnome-control-center-2.0 from the list of translatable templates? -> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/gnome-control-center/+pots/gnome-control-center-2.0/ca/+translate?show=untranslated
[10:31] <seb128> dpm, I don't think so, it's still using by Ubuntu GNOME
[10:31] <seb128> dpm, what would be the consequences?
[10:40] <dpm> seb128, it would not be included in langpacks. So if it's still used by Ubuntu GNOME, I'll leave it there. Another option (if it hasn't got any Ubuntu-specific strings) would be to demote it to universe, don't strip out the translations and just ship the upstream ones in the package, without langpack
[10:43] <seb128> dpm, it still has quite some Ubuntu patches, let's keep them in the langpacks for the LTS
[10:43] <seb128> we can sort it out better next cycle
[10:43] <dpm> ok
[10:58] <mvo> seb128: ;) I like milk in a black tea, but for green tea its like putting coca-cola into red-wine
[11:07] <mhr3> mvo, you're just old, cola with red-wine is perfectly normal :P
[11:07] <larsu> mvo: I've actually seen someone drink coke/wine recently. (not kidding)
[11:07] <Laney> me too
[11:07] <Laney> grim
[11:07]  * larsu hates milk in any tea
[11:08] <larsu> destroys all the taste for me
[11:08] <mvo> *cough*
[11:08] <mvo> *COUGH*
[11:08]  * mvo drops dead in shock
[11:09] <mhr3> mvo, according to wikipedia it has become an icon of basque culture :)
[11:09] <mvo> lol, seriously?
[11:09] <mhr3> so stop offending basks!
[11:10]  * mvo hides
[11:10]  * mhr3 probably didn't spell that right
[11:10]  * Sweetshark hates his life right now ...
[11:12] <amigamagic> I'm on xubuntu 14.04. Until now (2-3 days) I had no update notifications. I noticed that there is this bug still open and maybe it affects the 14.04 release too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/1246364
[11:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Low,Confirmed]
[11:12] <pitti> didrocks: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg07656.html → *hug*
[11:12]  * didrocks hugs pitti back
[11:13] <amigamagic> a "sudo apt-get upgrade" shows me that there are upgrades I could do, but I have no graphical notification of this
[11:13] <amigamagic> is it normal?
[11:13] <om26er> bug 1308002 anyone else saw that ?
[11:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308002 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Screen quickly autolocks again after unlocking " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308002
[11:15] <Laney> om26er: it's unity, what version of that do you have?
[11:16] <om26er> Laney, 7.2.0+14.04.20140411-0ubuntu1
[11:16] <om26er> there seems to be a pending update but the changelog didn't suggest if that fixed this bug. I am updating
[11:16] <om26er> also bug 1308005 as well.
[11:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308005 in unity (Ubuntu) "[regression] no way to close tall windows as they appear below top panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308005
[11:17] <amigamagic> om26er, I tried to reproduce that bug but to me lightdm works well
[11:17] <Laney> have you restarted your session recently?
[11:17] <Laney> double locking was supposed to be fixed with 0410-0ubuntu1
[11:17] <om26er> Laney, I always restart, I have a friend with the same issue as well.
[11:18] <om26er> amigamagic, Laney let me try a few times to see if I can give you guys the exact steps to reproduce this bug
[11:18] <Laney> reassign it to unity please
[11:18] <amigamagic> Laney, do you know something of the bug 1246364 ?
[11:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246364
[11:19] <Laney> no
[11:19] <amigamagic> I'm on 14.04 and I don't see update notifications anywhere, but I see other notifications, like when the lan is unplugged and similar
[11:20] <amigamagic> the xubuntu dev guys suggested me to ask here
[11:23] <Laney> amigamagic: I guess it's because auto-launch went away, you might want to talk to bdmurray as he made that change back then
[11:23] <Laney> Actually, it looks like Noskcaj had some input so talk to him first
[11:30] <seb128> larsu, it's not nice to troll didrocks like that!
[11:30] <didrocks> HUM?
[11:30] <didrocks> oh
[11:30] <didrocks> didn't see it
[11:30] <didrocks> bad larsu
 mvo: I've actually seen someone drink coke/wine recently. (not kidding)
[11:30] <amigamagic> Laney, thanks
[11:31] <didrocks> it wasn't really drinking
[11:31] <didrocks> it was tasting
[11:31] <didrocks> on desrt arguing I should try it
[11:31] <seb128> didrocks, though he was not at the same table so he might not be speaking about the same night ;-)
[11:31] <didrocks> but then, I let that to attente :p
[11:31] <didrocks> can be another night with desrt trolling French :p
[11:31] <larsu> :P
[11:31] <mvo> seb128: LOL
[11:32] <didrocks> mvo: and yeah… it's worse than the worst thing you can even imagine
[11:32] <attente> lol
[11:32] <didrocks> ever*
[11:32] <mvo> evar!!!
[11:32] <didrocks> I expect it to be bad
[11:32] <larsu> didrocks: you did drink it to taste it ;)
[11:32] <mvo> (except for green tea with milk maybe)
[11:32] <didrocks> but really not *that* bad
[11:32] <seb128> mvo, I've a photo to prove it, it happened in London at the team dinner, I can show you in Malta if you want ;-)
[11:32] <didrocks> roh… that photo, again!
[11:33] <seb128> mvo, good that you are back, you missed on things while you were not there ;-)
[11:33] <mvo> hahahahaa
[11:33] <mvo> totally!
[11:33] <seb128> hehe
[11:33] <didrocks> mvo: just to sum up: never trust desrt
[11:33] <larsu> what is this technology where you have to be in the same physical location as someone else to show them a photo?
[11:33] <didrocks> 1. he's making your code segfault is the schema isn't compiled for gsettings
[11:33] <didrocks> 2. he's making you trying coke + wine
[11:33] <mvo> didrocks: so he tricked you into it?
[11:33] <larsu> canadian bastard
[11:34] <didrocks> mvo: well, for him, it's really something that is drinkable
[11:34] <didrocks> at least, attente drink the whole glass
[11:34] <mvo> larsu: old style tech I guess :P
[11:34] <didrocks> (it was for him first)
[11:34] <larsu> ya :)
[11:34] <seb128> larsu, technology is not the issue, but I post it on the internet the NSA is going to see it!
[11:34] <seb128> I wouldn't do that to didrocks
[11:34] <larsu> didrocks: you should have sat at our table. No crazy experiments there
[11:34] <didrocks> yeah, I don't want that photo to be public :p
[11:34] <larsu> seb128: they already saw it.
[11:34] <didrocks> larsu: a sane table!
[11:34] <mvo> didrocks: I think seb128 already printed t-shirts with the photo
[11:35] <didrocks> tsssss
[11:35] <seb128> mvo, susssh, you are spoiling the surprise for the next event
[11:35] <didrocks> the photo is like the drink
[11:35] <didrocks> it's worse than what you can ever think about it :)
[11:35] <mvo> :P
[11:35] <seb128> lol
[11:35] <seb128> didrocks, well at least people can't troll you about enjoying the drink ;-)
[11:36] <didrocks> indeed :p
[11:36] <didrocks> I clearly showed I hate it
[11:36] <didrocks> maybe a little bit too much… :p
[11:36] <seb128> ;-)
[12:13] <desrt> didrocks: in fairness, attente didn't like the wine.  after the coke, he did.
[12:14]  * desrt did the appropriate thing to the situation
[12:14] <didrocks> desrt: if that makes your soul feel better to believe it! :)
[12:16] <desrt> so i woke up to this, this morning http://imgur.com/a/5RGHr
[12:16] <didrocks> waow
[12:16] <larsu> morning desrt
[12:17] <larsu> you should move to a warmer country
[12:17] <desrt> morning :)
[12:18] <didrocks> I have sun glasses and nearly dying of the hot temperature on my balconnee…
[12:18] <Laney> is a bustle log useful for "application results are never returned from the dash?"
[12:18] <Laney> "?
[12:28] <seb128> Laney, check with mhr3 but probably
[12:28] <Laney> cheers
[12:28] <Laney> I'll file it and it can be closed if that's not helpful
[12:43] <alex_abreu> Laney, yes :)
[12:44] <Laney> O RLY?
[12:44]  * Laney tries to remember how he phrased the question
[12:44] <Laney> oh good, in that way :)
[12:56] <attente> hi, i installed xubuntu-desktop, is there a way to get back lightdm and unity-greeter (and plymouth?) back to running as default?
[13:09] <cking> xnox, is the installer issue on the NVME still work-in-progress?
[13:10] <seb128> xclaesse, hey, I guess you didn't have any slot to look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662672 ... do you have any debugging hint/start point to suggest if we want to try to help debugging?
[13:10] <ubot2> Gnome bug 662672 in Chat "wrong count of unread messages and text missing" [Normal,New]
[13:13] <larsu> mpt: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1080076/comments/5
[13:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1080076 in The Sound Menu "Music titles in SoundMenu too small" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[13:13] <larsu> mpt: what do you mean by "caption font size"? The same size as other menu items?
[13:13] <larsu> that's what it seems to be for me right now
[13:14] <xnox> cking: i need to talk to you about it so. So NVME 1.0 spec & devices do not export EIU-64, and UEFI 2.4a adds support to address NVME 1.1 devices using EIU-64 addressing.
[13:15] <xnox> cking: there is no upstream support for that yet, and i've started on a kernel patch to update headers to export 1.1 EIU-64 devices.
[13:15] <xnox> cking: i have a few userspace utils that we can check if we can find any devices that are 1.1 compatible already.
[13:16] <xnox> cking: that should sort out the efibootmgr, once we figure out (and it's an sru candidate as per hwe policies)
[13:16] <cking> ok, I can check the kit here if you give me instructions
[13:16] <xnox> cking: the bit that ubiquity picks the wrong drive to install bootloader on, is probably not going to be fixed for 14.04.0
[13:17] <xnox> cking: but we've had a few known bugs about that.
[13:18] <cking> ok, but we do have a workaround on that, e.g. manually tweaking the bootloader options at install time, so it's not so bad
[13:21] <davmor2> tseliot: Hey dude I open additional drivers, I see Nouveau selected.  I pick any of the Nvidia options and I get the orange bar of the application installing but once it finishes the install it is still on Nouveau I can't switch it.  This is on an encrypted LVM install
[13:22] <xnox> cking: right, also efibootmgr -g should force GPT addressing, and that doesn't seem to do it.
[13:25] <cking> xnox, ok, well, it sounds like you have a handle on the issues in hand, I won't distract you
[13:25] <xnox> cking: i'm also a bit busy with release atm.
[13:25] <xnox> cking: i'll come back to you about it later.
[13:25] <cking> indeed
[13:25] <cking> ack
[13:25] <tseliot> davmor2: what does this command say? "ubuntu-drivers debug"
[13:26] <xnox> cking: imho efibootmanager should support pure(long) ACPI addressing of the devices (regardless as to what it is, e.g. devices not yet defined by the spec at all) but i was failing to work it out using edk2 firmware in qemu.
[13:27] <davmor2> tseliot: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7255290
[13:28] <cking> xnox, well, it would be reasonable I guess for the long devices addresses to be supported, but hey, that's life I guess
[13:28] <tseliot> davmor2: apparently the driver was not installed. Maybe apt failed?
[13:29] <xnox> cking: there is no indication anybody else has that on linux. For best results (e.g. both 1.0 and 1.1) i'd recommend to have boot partition on a "normal" drive, e.g. small ssd or spinny hdd.
[13:29] <davmor2> tseliot: let me try it from the cli and see what happens
[13:30] <tseliot> ok
[13:30] <xnox> cking: the server cd should install fine now, btw. Can you test it?
[13:30] <cking> xnox, i'll go do that right away
[13:30] <xnox> cking: if you haven't already, that is. Please.
[13:30] <xnox> cking: ack, thanks.
[13:31] <cking> xnox, today's daily iso will do?
[13:31] <xnox> cking: that's the one! =)
[13:31] <xnox> cking: Release Candidate and all that.
[13:45] <davmor2> tseliot: okay so it installs fine via the cli,  I then installed the updates version from the Additional drivers page and that went without a hitch, so I'm going to do another install now and see if I can install them then from additional drivers.  If I can't I can only assume that it might be an issue install some of the libxxxx32's maybe.
[13:47] <tseliot> davmor2: does it work if you uninstall the driver (with sudo apt-get --purge remove) and then call "ubuntu-drivers autoinstall"?
[13:47] <mhr3> Laney, bustle logs are always good :)
[13:48] <seb128> attente, you can probably uninstall the xubuntu settings binary
[13:48] <Laney> mhr3: ok, hope the bug is useful for you then
[13:48] <seb128> mhr3, especially when they prove you have bugs in your code ;-)
[13:48] <Laney> I've been sitting in silence because I was too lazy to launch spotify another way :)
[13:48]  * mvo is away for some minutes
[13:49] <davmor2> tseliot: I need to test a new install anyway I'm running through the iso testing, I don't want to get hooked up on one  install for a day debugging ;)
[13:49] <mhr3> seb128, how dare you?! :P
[13:49] <tseliot> davmor2: even better then
[13:49] <seb128> mhr3, I know you!
[13:50]  * Laney lunch
[13:50] <mhr3> seb128, but iirc there's already a bug opened for it
[13:50] <mhr3> maybe even opened by me
[13:51] <seb128> Laney, mpt: removing the screen slider from the indicator-power seems like a poor move, having a way to adjust your screen easily is really handy
[13:51] <seb128> mhr3, how come you didn't fix it yet? ;-)
[13:57] <mhr3> seb128, eehm, <excuse/> :)
[13:58] <seb128> lol
[14:33] <tkamppeter> qengho, tabs of Chromium are working now, Chromium menu and options in print dialog not.
[14:34] <qengho> tkamppeter: How's the menu for mouse click first, or second?
[14:35] <qengho> tkamppeter: touch support is new and has at least 3 bugs I'm working on.
[14:35] <Laney> seb128: I expected to see one of the ones in u-s-s removed
[14:36] <qengho> tkamppeter: bug workaround: Don't use that newfangled touchscreen. :)
[14:37] <tkamppeter> qengho, if I open the menu by clicking with the mouse I can continue operating the menu via touch screen, but not completely, I can only open sub menus and clcik on entries but entries never get executed. Clicking entries with the mouse executes the entries.
[14:38] <qengho> tkamppeter: I can reproduce. Thank you.
[14:38] <tkamppeter> qengho, when opening the menu by tapping on the touch screen, it is completely dead for touch, operation only possible by mouse or keyboard.
[14:39] <seb128> Laney, that would make more sense to me, waiting for mpt to comment back still
[14:45] <tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, hi
[14:47] <davmor2> tseliot: working fine now on the new install so maybe it was just an issue with the network I'll keep an eye on it though
[14:47] <tseliot> davmor2: ok, thanks
[14:56] <ChickenCutlass> please help -- latest chromium is broken
[14:56] <pmcgowan> qengho, having trouble with chromium, no plugins anymore, cant do hangouts
[14:57] <qengho> pmcgowan: do you have the latest talk plugin? It changed from NPAPI (which is dying) to PPAPI about 2 months ago.
[14:57] <pmcgowan> qengho, I just downloaded per google redirect, installed and still nothing
[14:57] <pmcgowan> it was working yesterday
[14:58] <pmcgowan> I had the latest plugin already, but tried reinstalling
[15:00] <ChickenCutlass> qengho, me too -- every plugin is broken
[15:00] <pmcgowan> well they are gone acc to tools
[15:04] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: had that issue before
[15:04] <pmcgowan> rsalveti, please share how you fixed it
[15:04] <mpt> larsu, menu items by default use the label size, i.e. the same size as a checkbox label or a text field label
[15:04] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: but it worked after I killed every chromium process I had running
[15:05] <pmcgowan> rsalveti,right, as they run background, let me try that
[15:05] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: ubuntu keeps a few for webapps and such
[15:05] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: it seems it only really upgrades itself once started from scratch
[15:05] <qengho> seb128, infinity: Losing the chromium API that is going away in a few weeks is surprising a lot of people. Is it a good idea to give people the extra time to fix plugins? I don't want to break things *after* release either, but maybe it will be fewer broken things in a month. I can kill features in Cr and re-gain NPAPI temporarily.
[15:06] <qengho> I can prepare a band-aid chromium-browser and have it built in 6 hours.
[15:06] <pmcgowan> rsalveti, I swear I rebooted though, trying now
[15:06] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: hm, reboot in theory should have fixed it
[15:06] <seb128> qengho, that might be a better topic for #ubuntu-release, I don't know enough about the subject to tell what's right, but it seems late to land a new chromium for release (especially since it's on some flavor images)
[15:06] <mdeslaur> qengho: this is an upstream change?
[15:07] <mdeslaur> qengho: we probably shouldn't deviate from upstream
[15:07] <qengho> mdeslaur: it's compile-time config.
[15:08] <mdeslaur> qengho: what's the default in the same version of chrome?
[15:08] <pmcgowan> rsalveti, ChickenCutlass reboot fixed it
[15:08] <pmcgowan> must need 2 ;)
[15:08] <ChickenCutlass> pmcgowan, ok, I will try
[15:09] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: I don't reboot :P
[15:12] <qengho> mdeslaur: Chrome ships with a flash player and talk plugin already installed, which we can't do.
[15:13] <mpt> larsu, by “the caption size” I mean the size that’s used, for example, in System Settings > “Security & Privacy” > “Diagnostics” below the checkboxes
[15:13] <mpt> seb128, (a) if automatic brightness adjustment was implemented you’d need to change it much less often, and (b) it might reappear in an indicator redesign
[15:15] <seb128> mpt, k, I'm unsure about (a), I hate that option/disable it/tweak manually on android, but maybe that's me (or it's the android stack not working good enough to give the results I want)
[15:15] <mdeslaur> qengho: oooh, right
[15:15] <seb128> mpt, it's a bit of a shame that we drop the option before having the automatic mode though, it seems backward
[15:16] <Laney> We do have that now
[15:16] <Laney> don't we?
[15:16] <Laney> mterry hooked the key up in unity
[15:16] <seb128> mpt, it's what we get most user flacks from "drop the option, because some futur design is going to resolve the problem, but let them without solution in between"
[15:16] <seb128> Laney, I don't think the backend is doing the adjustments, or at least not in smart ways
[15:17] <Laney> It does do something
[15:17] <Laney> Don't know what algorithm it's using though
[15:17] <seb128> like not respecting curves adjusted around your manually selected value
[15:17] <Laney> but it does respond to light level changes in some way
[15:17] <seb128> I think it's just adjusting according to the sensor value
[15:17] <seb128> in a dumb way
[15:18] <seb128> well, anyway, as said I don't believe in auto adjust
[15:18] <mpt> Who’s assigned to it?
[15:18] <seb128> what is right on a screen depends on your eyes
[15:18] <seb128> different people have different preferences/sensibility to light
[15:18] <Laney> Actually it does something smart
[15:18] <Laney> maybe not the full design yet but it's not as dumb as you make out
[15:19] <Laney> (from looking at the code)
[15:19] <seb128> k, could be
[15:19] <seb128> well, bottom line is that I don't believe in that option working for everyone
[15:19] <seb128> as said it doesn't work for me on android
[15:20] <Laney> That's fair enough
[15:20] <Laney> The change is there to be accepted or not :-)
[15:20] <seb128> the default values hurt my eyes at night
[15:20] <seb128> I keep changing it manually
[15:20] <seb128> I would be in favor of having the option easily available in the indicator
[15:21] <seb128> mpt, is that something you could be convinced about?
[15:21] <mpt> seb128, I am already convinced of it. I do not think, though (and neither does Shruti), that it belongs in the battery menu in particular.
[15:22] <seb128> mpt, well, until we have a better place/replacement we could keep it therE?
[15:23] <Laney> ok I got stuck in the update panel again
[15:23] <seb128> :/
[15:24] <seb128> is there any stdout/err output?
[15:24] <pmcgowan> qengho, so is the current downloadable google talk plugin using ppapi ?
[15:24] <qengho> pmcgowan: yes.
[15:24] <mpt> seb128, this is not an #ubuntu-desktop topic ;-) But I’ll discuss it with Shruti again
[15:25] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[15:25] <seb128> mpt, what would be the right place to discuss the topic?
[15:25] <pmcgowan> qengho, thats good then we can also download it for Oxide
[15:25] <pmcgowan> once PPAPI works there
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> pmcgowan, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/506 ;)
[15:26] <mpt> seb128, #ubuntu-design or #ubuntu-touch
[15:26] <pmcgowan> chrisccoulson, aha speaking of which
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> although, i tried it with oSoMoN earlier, and it crashed
[15:26] <pmcgowan> progress though
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> but, it's getting there
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[15:27] <seb128> mpt, ok, noted
[15:27] <seb128> mpt, we tend to not be strict about channels we use, maybe we should try to make more efforts, sorry about that
[15:30] <seb128> oh, it's meeting time!
[15:30] <Sweetshark> o/
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine, hey
[15:30] <desrt> mmmmmmmmeeting
[15:30]  * kenvandine waves
[15:32]  * larsu made it \o/
[15:32] <seb128> ok, let's see how everybody is feeling about the coming release and get started
[15:32] <seb128> larsu, ;-)
[15:32] <seb128> qengho, hey, ready to start?
[15:33] <qengho> in-progress: fixing bugs that are raised by touch and high-dpi support or phasing out NPAPI.
[15:33] <qengho> EOF.  I'm feeling really good about everything in general. Frustrated by chromium, though.
[15:33] <qengho> It's a really nice release.
[15:34] <seb128> qengho, is there any known performances issue on the new release? it feels quite slow for me
[15:34] <seb128> like slow to start, lag in keyboard input on gmail, etc
[15:35] <qengho> seb128: I don't know of anything specific. There are no benchmarks I've seen.
[15:35] <seb128> k
[15:35] <seb128> I'm going to keep an eye on it/check with a new profile in case
[15:35] <seb128> good version otherwise I agree
[15:35] <seb128> nice we got the update in for the release
[15:35] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, your turn
[15:35] <qengho> I mean the distro is great, not cr exactly.
[15:35] <Sweetshark> - chasing bug 1296715 up the stack
[15:35] <Sweetshark> -- no joy in the dbus-export code
[15:35] <Sweetshark> -- no joy in the vcl Menu code (the toolkit we are piggybacking upon)
[15:35] <Sweetshark> -- no joy in vcl SalMenu -- the internal menu abstraction
[15:35] <Sweetshark> -- no joy in toolkits VCLXMenu -- the UNO wrapper around vcl
[15:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1296715 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Menu items are greyed out in Libreoffice menu." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296715
[15:35] <Sweetshark> -- no joy in frameworks MenuBarWrapper/MenuBarFactory/MenuBarManager/ToolbarsMenuController and friends -- the (new) generic UI dispatch abstraction
[15:36] <seb128> qengho, that as well ;-)
[15:36] <Sweetshark> -- now at sfx2 SfxDispatchController -- the (old) generic UI dispatch abstraction
[15:36] <Sweetshark> --- still suspecting something 'optimized' for invisible menubars there (which we are ambivalent about because we hide the original toolbar to show our own)
[15:36] <Sweetshark> --- a huge pain to debug, an old menu is replaced by a new one, which is initially populated wrong, but updating correctly
[15:36] <Sweetshark> --- friends dont let friends use callbacks
[15:36] <Sweetshark> - application to renew my the Document Foundation membership ;)
[15:36] <Sweetshark> - some board work
[15:36] <Sweetshark> - libreoffice-4.2.3~rc3-0ubuntu2 for bug 1300283
[15:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1300283 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice does not start in a KDE 4 session" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300283
[15:36] <Sweetshark> EOF
[15:37] <Sweetshark> libreoffice in trusty: calc regression are under control, libreoffice-kde is still not as good as it should be. Otherwise Im not too worried.
[15:37] <seb128> Sweetshark, those menu debugging seems like lot of "fun" :/
[15:37] <Sweetshark> seb128: yes, leaky abstractions are way cool.
[15:37] <seb128> Sweetshark, is there anything others can do to help you there? or does it look like a libreoffice issue that need to be sorted out on your side?
[15:38] <Sweetshark> seb128: nope, its all inside LibreOffice.
[15:38] <seb128> ok
[15:38] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[15:38] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey, your turn
[15:39] <Sweetshark> seb128: If anyone is volunteering to tear down two or three layers of abstraction in LO, Im not protesting though ...
[15:39] <seb128> Sweetshark, you can always try, I doubt anyone is going to step up for that one though...
[15:40]  * Sweetshark needs to make someone drunk on the next sprint.
[15:40] <seb128> hehe
[15:40] <seb128> mlankhorst, not there?
[15:40] <seb128> Laney, your turn I guess then
[15:41] <Laney> • Make gnome-screensaver support replacement on the bus, to swap back and forth between it and Unity. Unity was trying to run `killall gnome-screensaver'(!!!)
[15:41] <Laney> • Fix default size of gnome-disks to not be off-screen
[15:41] <Laney> • Verify gdk-pixbuf SRU that could have caused segfaults in P→T upgrades
[15:41] <Laney> • Test/unblock webkitgtk final
[15:41] <Laney> • Many queue reviews and discussions, find & fix some bugs in the queued uploads
[15:41] <Laney> • Final freeze, extend generate-freeze-block to be able to output blocks for packages that a flavour seeds in common with other flavours, for touch shared components. This was instead of a blanket block. VELOCITY.
[15:41] <Laney> • Add symbols file to gsettings-qt (it currently has improper depends), need to propose this still
[15:41] <Laney> • Fix bamf matching with python3 scripts (l-s getting the wrong icon)
[15:41] <Laney> • Make indicator-power not show a slider per the new design
[15:41] <Laney> • Fix u-s-s tests - along the way make click updates in u-s-s work again. The tests found a bug, but they weren't being run.
[15:41] <Laney> ❂ (four day weekend this week!)
[15:42] <seb128> (oh, right, 4 days w.e! ;-)
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, thanks, nice list
[15:42] <didrocks> (4 days w.e should be forbidden)
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, from your release team side how is the release looking so far? anything worrying you?
[15:42] <Laney> didrocks: are you sure that you're french?
[15:43] <seb128> didrocks, you are still welcome to come visit and claim you are living in the good part of France and having friday off ;-)
[15:43] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, but I don't have 4 days ;) seb128 is lying again this year and say he has that :p
[15:43] <Laney> seb128: oh yeah, that reminds me
[15:43] <Laney> I spent a few hours looking at a graphite2/harfbuzz memory corruption issue in the installer
[15:43] <Laney> we released saucy with this problem already
[15:44] <seb128> oh ok
[15:44] <Laney> Not worried about anything in the sense of not being able to release though
[15:44] <seb128> great
[15:44] <Laney> but jibel always finds bugs that make me sad
[15:44] <seb128> we can SRU all those issues that we didn't manage to fix for releae
[15:44] <Laney> then some lockscreen issues to clean up
[15:44] <seb128> to get a solid .1
[15:44] <Laney> and little niggles
[15:44] <Laney> and bigger ones like the IM stack
[15:44] <Laney> = instant messaging not input methods
[15:45] <Laney> but I think we have our top brains on that :P
[15:45] <seb128> larsu \o/
[15:45] <seb128> ;-)
[15:45] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:46] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey, your turn
[15:46] <tkamppeter> - CUPS: Packaged 1.7.2 which got released upstream on our Final Freeze day. This version contains lots of bug fixes, including a security fix and CUPS daemon crashers.
[15:46] <tkamppeter> - foomatic-db: Another last-minute snapshot adding the Brother HL-2135.
[15:46] <tkamppeter> - Last-minute touch screen tests before release, reporting all remaining problems on the Lenovo Thinkpad Twist, mainly with Chromium.
[15:46] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:48] <desrt> hi seb128 !!
[15:48] <seb128> t
[15:48] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[15:48] <seb128> desrt, hey, your turn ineed
[15:48] <seb128> indeed
[15:48] <desrt> last night was the first night of passover, so i participated (for the first time) in a traditional jewish seder
[15:48] <desrt> i also changed all of my passwords
[15:49] <desrt> aside from the usual bugfixing, i mostly spent last week with the new mimeapps.list spec
[15:49] <desrt> argued over the finer points of details in the spec and implemented it in GIO (which is now reviewed and merged)
[15:49] <seb128> nice
[15:49] <desrt> i plan to spend the time before the gtk hackfest to finish off the backlog from the freedesktop summit (namely: dbus-based startup notification and desktop file index)
[15:49] <seb128> I guess the new version is on freedesktop.org?
[15:49] <desrt> after the hackfest i'll switch back to more gnomety stuff
[15:49] <seb128> new version of the spec
[15:49] <desrt> seb128: it is... but it has an outstanding patch still
[15:49] <desrt> arguing over it on the list, of course :)
[15:50] <seb128> ok
[15:50] <seb128> when is the GTK hackfest?
[15:50] <desrt> end of month
[15:50] <desrt> by 'gnomey stuff' i mean gmainloop hacking...
[15:50] <desrt> so really, gliby stuff :)
[15:50] <seb128> k
[15:50] <desrt> the new spec is pretty nice
[15:51] <desrt> and the merge of it into glib was actually a net decrease in lines of code
[15:51]  * desrt is pretty pumped about that
[15:51] <seb128> that's always a win!
[15:51] <seb128> do we need to change anything on our side/in other pieces of the stack?
[15:51] <desrt> yes
[15:51] <seb128> or is that just new niceties we can benefit from if we want?
[15:51] <desrt> we should rename /usr/share/applications/defaults.list to mimeapps.list
[15:51] <desrt> since the old name is now deprecated
[15:51] <desrt> (it was never specified anywhere -- and it doesn't appear in the new spec, either)
[15:52] <desrt> desktop-file-utils and ubuntukylin-default-settings install this
[15:53] <seb128> right
[15:53] <seb128> that's something for next cycle
[15:53] <desrt> yup
[15:53] <desrt> we can also rename it gnome-mimeapps.list, fwiw
[15:53] <desrt> since this file was never understood by anything other than GIO
[15:53] <seb128> k
[15:53] <larsu> and then we can have a separate one for unity \o/
[15:53] <desrt> (kde used some priority based scheme where desktop files say "i'm priority 10" and such.... but now we agree on the new mechanism)
[15:54] <desrt> ya... unity-mimeapps, kde-mimeapps... go crazy :p
[15:54] <larsu> we'll need the same for gsettings defaults of course ;)
[15:54] <desrt> uh... 'todo' :)
[15:54] <larsu> but we already discussed that
[15:55] <desrt> and clarification: this is not based on the library doing the reading, or even the app, but on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
[15:55] <desrt> so even if we have a gio-using app inside of a KDE desktop, it will use the kde defaults
[15:55] <desrt> (or qt-using app inside of gnome or unity...)
[15:56] <seb128> great
[15:56] <desrt> nothing more to say :)
[15:56] <seb128> desrt, thanks for the summary!
[15:56] <seb128> attente, there? I'm unsure in what tz you are atm ;-)
[15:57] <seb128> guess not
[15:57] <seb128> larsu, your turn
[15:58] <larsu> k
[15:58] <larsu> * brought indicator-telepathy into shape (as good as possible): - fixed some minor issues that caused warnings / criticals - inform the messaging menu about empathy's initial status (lp #1103438) - remove sources when a connection dies (lp #1302930) - messaging menu didn't remove messages when an application unreffed its MessagingMenuApp instance
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1103438 in telepathy-indicator (Ubuntu) "Online Status in indicator does not reflect empathy's online status" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103438
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302930 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Every message gets new list item on empathy indicator" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302930
[15:58] <larsu> * triaged all sound and messaging menu bugs. I think we're looking fairly good for the LTS.
[15:58] <larsu> * reviewed desrt's mimetype gio patches
[15:58] <larsu> woah. what happened to the formatting
[15:58] <desrt> larsu: irssi happened
[15:59] <larsu> I also started working on the empathy -1 unread bug
[15:59] <larsu> not much progress
[15:59] <larsu> desrt: used to work
[15:59] <larsu> (every wekk)
[15:59] <larsu> *week
[15:59] <larsu> eof
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, let me know if you need help testing the indicator-messages fixes
[16:00] <larsu> sure thanks
[16:00] <seb128> kenvandine, your turn
[16:00] <Laney> first ice cream van of the year!
[16:01] <kenvandine> a couple minor fixes in system-settings
[16:01] <kenvandine> doc fixes in content-hub
[16:01] <desrt> Laney: we had that last week
[16:01]  * Laney runs to mum "can I have an ice cream pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
[16:01] <desrt> Laney: now we have snow :p
[16:01] <seb128> Laney, haha
[16:01] <Laney> oh crap
[16:01] <Laney> go away van!
[16:01]  * Laney sorry kenvandine :P
[16:01] <kenvandine> spent some time helping a customer get started using content-hub
[16:01] <kenvandine> Laney, no worries
[16:01] <kenvandine> that's all i have
[16:02] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:02] <kenvandine> excited for the release :)
[16:03] <seb128> same here
[16:03] <seb128> ok, my turn
[16:03] <seb128> • desktop updates (glibmm, gtk3)
[16:03] <seb128> • refreshed packages that don't use langpacks with launchpad exports (language-selector, xdg-user-dirs)
[16:03] <seb128> • quite some testing of the new lockscreen after hitting issues, got debug infos, tested new versions/fixes ... seems to be in good shape now
[16:03] <seb128> • trusty bug fixes (unity-control-center, indicator-power/ubiquity, pidgin, language-selector)
[16:03] <seb128> • trusty bugs triage/listing candidates for SRUs
[16:03] <seb128> • organized train landing (indicators mostly)
[16:03] <seb128> • some sponsoring

[16:05] <seb128> I think that's all
[16:05] <seb128> did I forgot anyone?
[16:05] <seb128> is there any other comment/question?
[16:05] <desrt> seb128: did you eat any meat today?
[16:05] <brookswarner> seb128 - I'd like to introduce KombuchaKip from Sustaining Team
[16:05] <seb128> we should be set up for release now, if anyone has fixes please line those up for SRUs
[16:06] <seb128> desrt, yes, I had some beef for lunch!
[16:06] <seb128> brookswarner, hey, sure!
[16:06] <seb128> go ahead
[16:06] <brookswarner> thanks Seb
[16:06] <brookswarner> HI All.  I've hired a new desktop focused engineer for Sustaining engineering team
[16:07] <desrt> (what is sustaining team?)
[16:07] <brookswarner> he's in the channel as Kombuchakip2 (typically know as KombuchaKip)
[16:07] <brookswarner> Sustaining is L3/bug fix from CDO team
[16:07] <mlankhorst> seb128: oops I'm there :P
[16:08] <desrt> brookswarner: can you expand once more? :)
[16:08] <seb128> mlankhorst, wait your turn now please
[16:08] <Laney> Is that people who fix bugs escalated by customers? :)
[16:08] <brookswarner> sure - we do Ubuntu Advantage support for paying customers
[16:08] <desrt> right
[16:08] <brookswarner> so Kip's focus will be responding to desktop bugs that UA customers file
[16:08] <brookswarner> and working with your team to help close them and improve desktop experience for all
[16:08] <seb128> great
[16:09] <seb128> KombuchaKip2, welcome on board!
[16:09] <desrt> KombuchaKip2: hey.  welcome.
[16:09] <Laney> all these warners :P
[16:09] <brookswarner> answer your questions desrt?
[16:09] <desrt> KombuchaKip2: feel free to ping me about any issues related to dconf/gsettings/glib type stuff... a lot of the sort of people who tend to get UA tend to have some interesting usecases there :)
[16:09] <desrt> brookswarner: yup.   thanks.
[16:09] <seb128> KombuchaKip2, this channel is usually quite active (mostly during european/USA working hours though), so feel free to join any time if you have questions or need anything
[16:10] <brookswarner> LOL...yes we've tripled the "warner's" in canonical in the past quarter
[16:11] <brookswarner> thanks Seb et all
[16:11] <Sweetshark> KombuchaKip2: welcome!
[16:11] <Laney> thanks brookswarner
[16:11] <desrt> brookswarner: the new guy is pretty quiet, eh? :)
[16:11] <seb128> brookswarner, thanks
[16:12] <seb128> mlankhorst, ok, your turn since you seem to be back
[16:12] <mlankhorst> debugging some vdpau corruption on nouveau, interacting with upstream of kernel, uploaded xorg-server 1.15.1 to fix some sna corruption and small bugs, deferred a mesa vdpau fix for the first mesa sru
[16:12] <mlankhorst> ^D
[16:12] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[16:12] <seb128> ok, any other topic?
[16:12] <Sweetshark> KombuchaKip2: that 'remove three layers of abstraction in LibreOffice' from 40 minutes ago is still open for takers ;)
[16:12] <seb128> haha
[16:12] <desrt> seb128: make tomorrow a veggie day :)
[16:12] <seb128> Sweetshark, way to not scare away the new comer :p
[16:13] <Sweetshark> seb128: *hrhr*
[16:13] <seb128> desrt, thanks, I'm going to think about it
[16:13] <seb128> desrt, friday is also supposed to be one, it's good friday
[16:13] <desrt> ah.  right.
[16:13] <seb128> ;-)
[16:13] <desrt> short week -- everyone work 25% harder!!
[16:13] <seb128> ok, seems like it's a wrap then
[16:13] <seb128> thanks you everyone!
[16:14] <seb128> desrt, yeah, don't say that too much, didrocks is going to complain again that they have to work in Lyon on good friday
[16:14] <desrt> there's an event in lyon this week?
[16:14] <seb128> no, but that day is only an holiday for the ex-German part of France
[16:14] <seb128> ;-)
[16:14] <Laney> it's called "go to work as normal"
[16:15] <desrt> ahh.  interesting.
[16:15] <desrt> i thought they scheduled a sprint week on the week with good friday :p
[16:15] <seb128> no ;-)
[16:15] <desrt> btw: if you've never done a seder before, you should
[16:15] <desrt> what a trip
[16:15] <desrt> by the end of the night you end up drunk and confused, and leaning slightly to the left
[16:16] <desrt> but your hands are quite clean
[16:16]  * seb128 is ready the wikipedia page, there are quite some steps listed in there
[16:16] <seb128> ready->reading
[16:18] <desrt> noteworthy points from the page: "There is an obligation to drink four cups of wine during the Seder"
[16:21] <KombuchaKip2> Hey folks. Sorry about my connectivity issue. My client is being a pain in the butt and was temporarily blocked by freenode because it was being naughty.
[16:21] <desrt> KombuchaKip2: welcome :)
[16:22] <KombuchaKip2> desrt: =)
[16:23] <Sweetshark> seb128: you know though that you will have to speak german with very hard consonants on good friday though for the day off, dont you?
[16:24] <desrt> is good friday not being a holiday in france some kind of a nod toward secularism, or... ?
[16:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, you wish!
[16:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: jawohl, ich wish! ;)
[16:24] <seb128> hehe
[16:27] <seb128> desrt, it's a good question, I'm unsure about that
[16:30] <seb128> some days google annoys me
[16:31] <seb128> Laney, mvo: since I clicked on your amazon/kettle urls, this morning, I keep getting ads to buy one of those
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> hi desktop!
[16:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[16:32] <Laney> seb128: haha
[16:32] <Laney> "drink more tea"
[16:32] <KombuchaKip2> desrt: Veggie day yea!
[16:32] <mvo> tea++
[16:33] <mvo> veggie day++
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> mvo, steak day++
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> :)
[16:33] <mvo> hey chrisccoulson
[16:33] <mvo> steak day-- ;)
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[16:33] <mvo> good! thanks, how are you?
[16:33] <mvo> different timezone right now?
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> mvo, pretty good thanks. although, quite tired
[16:34]  * Sweetshark is needs to take revenge on the bavarians someday for them having 4 more holidays than us hanseatic guys ...
[16:34] <Sweetshark> (each year)
[16:46] <desrt> bavarians!!
[16:46] <desrt> those guys never have veggie days :(
[16:57] <Sweetshark> desrt: yeah, and a "big beer" is honestly a big beer there ...
[17:35] <pmcgowan> qengho, does flash work with the v34 chromium?
[18:32] <Trevinho> attente: hey, I was looking at your proposal... But I was wonding: what about moving the whole thing inside a LockScreenAccelerators class, that is generated just once by LockScreenController and that the relevant LockScreenShield will pass the events to?
[18:37] <beidl> Trevinho: hey! :) just read mail, I'll look into it in a few minutes
[18:37] <Trevinho> beidl: hey, sorry I spammed the MR a bit :P
[18:37] <beidl> Trevinho: no problem haha
[18:43] <beidl> Trevinho: is that patch based on my dnd branch or trunk?
[18:43] <Trevinho> beidl: on trunk
[18:44] <beidl> Trevinho: I see, it made sense to me to do "resetting" stuff in one method, but fixing the problem in there is nice too :D
[18:45] <Trevinho> beidl: yeah, of course... I've tested the patch I linked it seems to work to me, but let me know if I missed something
[18:45] <Trevinho> beidl: anyway, just pick the one way you prefer more and use in your branch ;)
[18:46] <beidl> Trevinho: thanks! :D
[18:51] <beidl> Trevinho: alright, that patch certainly looks cleaner.
[18:52] <beidl> Trevinho: I'll probably change something up so that, if the launcher was dragged out (by the 4 finger gesture), and DND hides the launcher, make the launcher reappear automatically after DND stopped
[19:33] <kenvandine> woot... click updates in system-settings!  so nice to see that landed :)
[19:35] <czajkowski> kenvandine: aloha:)
[19:45] <kenvandine> hey czajkowski
[19:45] <beidl> Trevinho: so I just noticed a problem where, if the edge is hit and the launcher is in the process of hiding, and you pull the pointer away very fast, the launcher stays there (half hidden) until dnd stops
[20:17] <beidl> Trevinho: pushed, those 2 added lines shouldn't screw up anything (tm)
[20:55] <Saviq> pmcgowan, bregma, here's the log for building qtbase https://launchpadlibrarian.net/172399928/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.qtbase-opensource-src_5.2.1%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu14_UPLOADING.txt.gz
[20:56] <Saviq> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7257618/ excerpts - config options and config summary
[20:57] <Saviq> Xi2 ................ yes
[20:57] <pmcgowan> yes
[20:57] <pmcgowan> that should be good
[20:57] <Saviq> Xi ................. no
[20:57] <Saviq> not sure we need both or one is good enough
[20:59] <bregma> XI2 is all you need
[20:59] <pmcgowan> I was reading this thread https://www.bountysource.com/issues/1354081-desktop-linux-version-lacks-touch-support
[20:59] <pmcgowan> seems the build system lacked the proper configuration or something
[21:00] <bregma> technically you need XI2.2 for proper MT support, XI2.1 doesn't have it
[21:00] <bregma> we actually distropatched XI2.2 into XI2.1 for a couple of releases
[21:01] <pmcgowan> bregma, so do we think Qt is doing the right thing?
[21:03] <Saviq> bregma, what does `QT_XCB_DEBUG_XINPUT_DEVICES=anything qmlscene` say for you?
[21:04] <Saviq> bregma, you could also try `QT_XCB_DEBUG_XINPUT=anything qmlscene foo.qml` and see if input actually goes through xinput or not
[21:04] <Saviq> bregma, i.e. see https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,74357
[21:07] <Saviq> from olli_'s https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701/comments/4 comment...
[21:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1307701 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity does not get touch events when SDK apps running" [High,Confirmed]
[21:07] <Saviq> it would sound to me like Qt apps grab all touches as soon as one is detected... which would be rather bad to do
[21:08] <Saviq> OTOH that's ~what we're dealing with for touch apps, too, you either have to buffer events until you're sure it's not a three-finger event, or have a way to cancel the whole touchpoint, which requires support in the toolkit (which no one has)
[21:09] <Saviq> two single-touch apps would expose this behaviour as well, as soon as you touched one, you couldn't interact with the other one
[21:10] <Saviq> but that'd be really weird if Qt did that...
[21:10] <bregma> well, the XI2.2 API has touch-reject
[21:11] <bregma> I know we supported it in geis, although no one ever used it because it's a stupid API design
[21:11] <bregma> touch-reject, I mean, geis is a beautiful API design :)
[21:13] <bregma> the whole XI2.2 MT design hinged on everyone receiving events until either a touch was accepted or rejected
[21:14] <Saviq> bregma, have a better design? before we implement a similar mechanism in Mir? ;)
[21:15]  * bregma is having nightmarish flashbacks
[21:17] <bregma> Saviq, there are two alternatives: the accept/reject model and the combinatoric model, they both have their drawbacks and problems
[21:17] <Saviq> bregma, "combinatoric"?
[21:19] <bregma> yeah, everyone ends up getting everything, you end up with a lot of memory and a lot processing, eventually we rejected that model
[21:19] <bregma> but it eliminated all the roundtripping and required client feedback of the accept-reject model
[21:24] <pmcgowan> bregma, so what did we patch in qt4 in the past for multi-touch support
[21:25] <pmcgowan> Saviq, bregma I lost the train of thought on our current issue
[21:27] <bregma> pmcgowan, I don;t believe we patched anything in qt4 in the past
[21:27] <Saviq> pmcgowan, there isn't any atm, I asked bregma to see if the MT device he has shows up with QT_XCB_DEBUG_XINPUT_DEVICES=anything and QT_XCB_DEBUG_XINPUT=anything to see actual input
[21:28] <bregma> I'm looking at the Qt5 code right now, trying to figure out how it's using the XI2 MT support without calling XIGrabTouchBegin()
[21:29] <bregma> I can't test on my devices right now because the one I have left is busy generating some performance data for another bug
[21:29] <Saviq> pmcgowan, but my suspicion would be that we do actually get input through that, but then it sounds like it'd grab all input once it accepts a touch point... which would be rather bad
[21:29] <pmcgowan> bregma, ok, will leave you to it, internet thinks we patched qt back in the day
[21:30] <bregma> we patched X11 back in the day, certainly
[21:32] <bregma> ah, I see: Qt grabs all MT events from X11 indiscrimiately using XISelectEvents, instead of for a window using XIGrabTouchBegin() like a good citizen
[21:33] <bregma> so, once it's focused, it will grab other window's touch events
[21:33] <bregma> really, that sounds like a bug in XInput, I'll need to dig deeper
[21:34]  * bregma has gotten way too rusty on all this stuff
[21:40] <Saviq> bregma, this only shows how big multitouch use is under X...
[21:43] <pmcgowan> s
[22:24] <Trevinho> beidl: cool, checking that sortly, thanks
[22:24] <Trevinho> shortly*
[22:36] <beidl> Trevinho: stupid me, yeah, SetHidden is redundant
[22:37] <Trevinho> beidl: no worries..
[22:43] <beidl> Trevinho: it doesn't happen often that I get to hack on other peoples code. :)
[22:45] <Trevinho> beidl: yeah, I understand, but it seems you're doing it pretty well
[22:46] <Trevinho> beidl: and approved! :)
[22:46] <beidl> Trevinho: \o/
[22:48] <beidl> Trevinho: I've been a linux/foss guy for quite a while now and I figured, if I really want to do that as a living in the future, I might as well start early instead of only working on code as part of homework.
[22:48] <bregma> beidl, you are welcome to keep on hacking on our code as long as you want
[22:48] <beidl> *for a living
[22:48] <beidl> bregma: yay!
[22:48] <bregma> we'll let yuo know when you've gone to far and have to start paying :)
[22:49] <bregma> j/k
[22:49] <beidl> bregma: "[MP] Rename Unity to Beidl-DE"
[22:50] <bregma> don't wake the lawyers
[22:52] <beidl> I'll probably work on bigger stuff as soon as I've finished my finals, so there's nothing to worry about for the moment :)


[01:56] <bkerensa> Hi MarkDude
[01:57] <MarkDude> Hey there bker
[01:57] <MarkDude> bkerensa,
[01:58] <bkerensa> MarkDude: Do you have the link to your talk at Yahoo in California?
[01:58] <bkerensa> We might be doing a talk at Yahoo at the end of January
[01:59] <MarkDude> Yep
[02:00] <MarkDude> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au7Vm88aVuU
[02:00] <MarkDude> Epic beard is EPIC.
[02:02]  * MarkDude still has access to LAMP meeting ML
[02:02] <MarkDude> Help get folks there
[17:37] <slangasek> bkerensa: can you please approve me follow-up post to ubuntu-us-or@lists?
[17:37] <slangasek> s/me/my/
[18:37] <slangasek> bkerensa: ^^ nevermind that one, routed around by sending from a different address :)


[12:21] <Zzzot> help
[12:25] <Zzzot> I am trying to improve the performance of my kubuntu6.10 system. some tips/tricks that I have read say to remove unneeded ttys from /etc/inittab how would i do this with upstart?
[12:26] <Zzzot> would I remove the files from /etc/event.d? for example: /etc/event.d/tty6?
[12:26] <Md> it will not help unless you are *horribly* tight on RAM
[12:35] <Zzzot> Do I have the idea correct? would I remove the files from /etc/event.d? for example: /etc/event.d/tty6?
[05:54] <gnutz>  /msg nickserv link gnutz workhard
[05:55] <Keybuk> gnutz: you may want to change your password ;)
[05:55] <gnutz> LOL
[05:55] <gnutz>  Im a dame nubie
[05:55] <gnutz> damm
[05:55] <AlexExtreme> heh
[05:56] <gnutz> So I guess I just exploted my user account
[05:56] <gnutz> LOL
[05:56] <AlexExtreme> yeah
[05:56] <gnutz>  So is this an Ubuntu room?
[05:56] <AlexExtreme>  /msg nickserv set password will help
[05:56] <AlexExtreme> gnutz, it's for the init program used in Ubuntu
[05:56] <gnutz> ok thx
[05:57] <gnutz> init?
[05:57] <gnutz> what is that?
[05:57] <AlexExtreme> gnutz, init is the program which boots up a linux system
[05:57] <wasabi> I'm curious how you managed to join the channel.
[05:57] <gnutz> o the Kernal?
[05:57] <AlexExtreme> gnutz, no, it's the thing that's run once the kernel is loaded
[05:58] <gnutz> wasabi try /list then click
[05:59] <gnutz> Ok like a gnome / xsever type of thing?
[05:59] <AlexExtreme> no
[05:59] <gnutz> Never mind sorry Ill google it
[05:59] <AlexExtreme> gnutz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Init might help you understand what init does
[06:01] <gnutz> Cool Im reading up on it
[06:02] <gnutz>  Hey I do have a relitive question
[06:02] <gnutz> I have dual boot XP ntfs on fisrt part then EXT3 with Unbuntu on the 2nd part
[06:03] <gnutz> some times I'll boot outta XP and into Ubuntu and it will freeze
[06:03] <AlexExtreme> XP freezes? or Ubuntu?
[06:03] <gnutz> then I'll hard boot and Ubuntu will finale boot up
[06:03] <gnutz> Ubuntu
[06:04] <AlexExtreme> strange
[06:04] <gnutz> Im wondering if Ubuntu is corrpting the MBR
[06:04] <gnutz>  or its a NTFS issue
[06:04] <AlexExtreme> you should probably ask in #ubuntu
[06:04] <AlexExtreme> just type /j #ubuntu
[06:04] <gnutz> cool Alex thnx
[06:10] <Keybuk> http://einit.sourceforge.net/
[06:10] <Keybuk> No real shell scripts, no inittab, no runlevels and a configuration file in XML
[06:11] <Keybuk> nice to see people refer to upstart :)
[06:11] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk, strange, I was just reading that at the exact same time as you... :P
[06:11] <Keybuk> http://einit.sourceforge.net/documentation/users/introduction-differences-upstart.html
[06:12] <Keybuk> heh
[06:12] <Keybuk> I'd be interested to see how it's "partially event-based"
[06:12] <AlexExtreme> yes... I don't quite get how that would work
[06:13] <Keybuk> I guess it's actually as event-based as upstart
[06:15] <Keybuk> actually, it looks rather strange
[06:15] <Keybuk> to my eyes, anyway; I guess it makes sense to the author
[06:16] <AlexExtreme> It must do, otherwise he/she wouldn't have written it
[06:18] <Keybuk> the embedded market does seem to be the focus
[06:18] <Keybuk> e.g. having just one config file for every single job/task/service/module/mode
[06:18] <Keybuk> makes it hard for a distribution though, as packages can't extend it
[06:19] <AlexExtreme> yes
[06:19] <AlexExtreme> the first design flaw that will make it difficult for a distro to adopt it ;)
[06:19] <Keybuk> I doubt their aiming for that
[06:19] <AlexExtreme> interesting.... there's a file in it's source called "bitch.c"
[06:19] <AlexExtreme> with a "bitch" function
[06:20] <Keybuk> dpkg has an ohshit() function
[06:20] <Keybuk> and an onshite() function
[06:20] <Keybuk> the difference being that onshite() appends strerror() to the error message :p
[06:20] <AlexExtreme> really? :)
[06:20] <Keybuk> I'm hardly in a position to diss someone for NIHing an init daemon <g>
[06:20] <Keybuk> I wish them well
[06:21] <AlexExtreme> may I ask, what does NIH stand for?
[06:21] <Keybuk> Not Implemented Here
[06:21] <Keybuk> or Not Invented Here
[06:21] <AlexExtreme> ah
[06:22] <Keybuk> it's usually used in a derogative sense if someone goes and reinvents a wheel
[06:22] <Keybuk> or writes code themselves that already existed elsewhere
[06:26] <Keybuk> the focus really does seem to be writing everything in C
[06:26] <Keybuk> cf. the modules subdir
[06:26] <Keybuk> it has C code to do things like set the hostname, mount a filesystem, fork getty, etc.
[06:26] <Keybuk> whereas we'd use shell code for that
[06:28] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk, question: when do you think the current specifications for upstart be implemented? just so I know if upstart will be ready for Frugalware 0.6, or whether I'll need to delay inclusion of upstart until 0.7
[06:29] <Keybuk> I'm aiming for over the next two weeks
[06:29] <AlexExtreme> hmm#
[06:30] <AlexExtreme> would be in time for rc1, if I work hard on the jobs... but after rc1 will have to be delayed
[06:30] <AlexExtreme> mental note: stop thinking out loud
[06:30] <Keybuk> heh
[06:30] <Keybuk> nothing wrong with thinking out loud, I do it all the time
[06:30] <AlexExtreme> :p
[06:30] <Keybuk> it's been delayed a bit from my original plan because I've changed roles at Canonical
[06:31] <Md> what are you working on now/
[06:31] <Md> ?
[06:32] <Keybuk> I'm a manager now; in charge of one of the two teams that develop Ubuntu
[06:33] <AlexExtreme> ah
[06:33] <Keybuk> I'll be still doing a fair amount of development work as well, ie. initramfs/udev/upstart
[06:33] <Keybuk> but the transition meant that I didn't get as much chance as I'd've liked before xmas


[16:33] <GrueMaster> cjwatson: I have narrowed down the issue a little inoem-config on 12.04.3.  It is not related to plymouth.  Also, since this system already has an account created, if I log into a different console and stop oem-config, I can restart it and it works fine.
[16:45] <GrueMaster> I'll do more digging, but I think it may be that oem-config is launching without proper locale settings, or the locale settings defined in the system are conflicting in some way.