[15:00] <Tribaal> Hi folks
[15:00] <Tribaal> slashtommy: sorry about this weekend, I was offline most of the time (irccloud still marks me as being present I assume)
[15:00] <slashtommy> ah, that's fine
[15:01] <slashtommy> there was a lot of stuff on this last weekend
[15:01] <slashtommy> the ILUG AGM and the Tog open social
[15:01] <Tribaal> oh cool
[15:01] <Tribaal> damn
[15:01] <Tribaal> I had to visit flats with my wife etc...
[15:01] <Tribaal> but now we found something cool at least
[15:01] <Tribaal> in Rathmines
[15:02] <slashtommy> not bad, not too far out
[15:03] <Tribaal> indeed
[15:03] <Tribaal> I'm looking forward to move in
[15:03] <Tribaal> but that'll be on the 20th onlz
[17:02] <BenChapman> has anyone here used a CF card attached as SATA to a PC to boot ubuntu faster? Any issues with it?
[21:40] <serenity> hi
[21:41] <serenity> just a notify: 5 people of ubuntu-de (read ubuntuusers.de) will be in Dublin on New Years Eve
[21:46] <airurando> hi serenity
[21:46] <airurando> that sounds like fun
[21:47] <airurando> hopefully some of the ubuntu-ie folks will be able to hook up with you on New Years eve.
[21:49] <airurando> perhaps we should generate an event on the loco team portal
[21:49] <czajkowski> airurando: ello there
[21:49] <airurando> hi czajkowski
[21:49] <airurando> jet lag?
[21:50] <czajkowski> nope been awake all day
[21:50] <czajkowski> am kinda tired now
[21:51] <airurando> aye
[21:51] <airurando> good UDS?
[21:51] <czajkowski> aye very
[21:51] <serenity> airurando: one of us talked with some of you
[21:51] <czajkowski> pretty busy though
[21:52] <czajkowski> as you can tell from my blog posts
[21:52] <serenity> they will hook up
[21:52] <serenity> ubuntu-ie/-de meetup..canonical, where's your wallet? ;)
[21:55] <airurando> czajkowski when do you start the new job?
[21:55] <czajkowski> tomorrow morning
[21:55] <airurando> wow
[21:55] <airurando> very best of luck with it.
[21:56] <czajkowski> thanks
[21:56] <airurando> what will you be doing?
[21:56] <czajkowski> writing open source articles for the h-online.com
[21:56] <airurando> nice :)
[21:57] <airurando> I look forward to reading them
[21:59] <serenity> airurando: an event would be cool
[22:01] <airurando> serenity your idea :)
[22:01] <serenity> will talk with our guys
[22:01] <airurando> if you put it up on the ubuntu-de loco team portal page we can promote it here
[22:02] <airurando> or vice versa
[22:03] <airurando> some of the guys here live in Dublin and can suggest places
[22:03] <airurando> pop in here anytime to chat about it
[22:04] <serenity> that would be cool. As tourist i don't like places made for tourists ;)


[13:21] <Kilos> o/
[17:32] <inetpro> good mornings
[17:33] <inetpro> oh and hi oom kilos as well :-D


[20:41] <belkinsa> slickymaster, good luck on your app.
[21:36] <slickymaster> hey, thanks belkinsa
[21:36] <belkinsa> I was planning to do it myself but I can't find time during this cycle to apply and come to the meeting because of school.
[21:37] <slickymaster> there's still time until April
[21:38] <belkinsa> I know but I'n still in school in April.
[21:38] <slickymaster> oh
[21:38] <belkinsa> I end in April and I'm not sure what I will do in the summer, but it will most like be undergrad research since I'm a Biology stsudent.
[21:38] <slickymaster> well it took me almost a year and a half for me to finally set my mind to it
[21:39] <slickymaster> well, getting your graduation is surely more important
[21:40] <belkinsa> Yeah, it is.  But that is next fall.
[21:40] <belkinsa> Well, this upcoming fall.
[21:41] <slickymaster> hopefully everything will run smoothly
[21:41] <belkinsa> Thank you!  Same to you.


[14:09] <Kolusion> Hi. I use Ubuntu and I found that MATE is not in the main repository. Is it the same for Ubuntu MATE as well?
[14:24] <sixwheeledbeast> it would exist if it wasn't in the repo.
[14:26] <Kolusion> Sorry?
[14:27] <sixwheeledbeast> wouldn't
[14:27] <sixwheeledbeast> you can install mate on to an ubuntu system or use ubuntu-mate
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> they use the same repos
[14:28] <Kolusion> Yeah, well its in the 'universe' repo in Ubuntu, but is it the same for Ubuntu MATE? I think I read Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE share the same repo's?
[14:28] <Kolusion> MATE is broken out of the box in Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, and I can't upgrade now.
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> version?
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> and what is broken?
[14:29] <Kolusion> I don't know what version, which ever one comes with 20.04 LTS. When you login, you get some error. I'll install it now and show you a screenshot...
[14:29] <Kolusion> Downloading...
[14:31] <sixwheeledbeast> so when you say it doesn't exist?
[14:31] <Kolusion> Hey?
[14:32] <Kolusion> MATE is in the 'universe' repository in Ubuntu, not 'main'.
[14:32] <Kolusion> I'm wondering if its the same for Ubuntu MATE?
[14:33] <Kolusion> Because if its not in main, then Ubuntu MATE does not get 5 years of guaranteed security updates from Canonical.
[14:33] <Kolusion> That sounds risky, so I'm wondering which repository is MATE in, in Ubuntu MATE.
[14:33] <sixwheeledbeast> it will be the same
[14:34] <sixwheeledbeast> but it's a supported flavour
[14:34] <Kolusion> Okay, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks
[14:34] <Kolusion> Yeah, supported. But Universe is community maintained, not Canonical.
[14:34] <Kolusion> If a security problem arises and the community doesn't patch it, then Ubuntu MATE becomes a security risk.
[14:36] <Kolusion> I installed MATE into Ubuntu and rebooted. How do I switch to MATE at the login screen? The cog is not there...
[14:37] <sixwheeledbeast> unlikely, but from what I recall flavours are 3 years. Most packages are from shared anyway so it makes little difference.
[14:38] <Kolusion> Yeah, 3 years, which makes me wonder if Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE are using different repositories, because if they were using the same then Ubuntu MATE would have 5 years of support.
[14:38] <sixwheeledbeast> not used vanilla ubuntu since mate rolled
[14:38] <arraybolt3> ^ correct, flavors patch the Universe components (at least some of them) for three years after release. Keep in mind that the critical parts like the kernel, web browser, etc., are still supported by Canonical and get five years of support.
[14:39] <Kolusion> Are the patches delivered normally, or one must subscribe to Ubuntu Pro?
[14:39] <arraybolt3> Delivered normally.
[14:39] <sixwheeledbeast> same as ubuntu
[14:40] <Kolusion> Ubuntu doesn't deliver all patches in Universe without Ubuntu Pro.
[14:40] <Kolusion> Canonical withhold them.
[14:40] <Kolusion> SAd
[14:41] <Kolusion> So I installed MATE into Ubuntu, rebooted and am at the login screen. But I can't see a way to login with MATE.
[14:41] <arraybolt3> Screenshot?
[14:41] <arraybolt3> Like you don't have anywhere to type a username and password?
[14:43] <Kolusion> https://i.ibb.co/41qhVJ4/Untitled.png
[14:43] <sixwheeledbeast> pro is mostly backports tho? If you update with each LTS I don't see an issue.
[14:44] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast I don't want to have to update my server every 2 years
[14:45] <sixwheeledbeast> on lts it makes no odds
[14:46] <Kolusion> What does that mean?
[14:46] <Kolusion> I found out how to switch to mate... how dumb... you get the option when it asks you for your password lol
[14:46] <sixwheeledbeast> there is rarely an issue during an upgrade. if your looking for longer terms then maybe debian.
[14:46] <arraybolt3> If you're building a server, Ubuntu Server would be better. Desktop versions of Ubuntu lack some features that are very nice for servers, and Ubu tu Server is free.
[14:47] <Kolusion> Debian doesn't work from my experience.
[14:47] <sixwheeledbeast> also yer ^
[14:47] <Kolusion> Desktop and Server share the same repos
[14:47] <arraybolt3> True, but they have different starting software and configuration from those repos.
[14:48] <Kolusion> https://i.ibb.co/FJc1FsF/Untitled.png
[14:48] <Kolusion> So this is what you get on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS when you install MATE on a fresh Ubuntu install.
[14:48] <Kolusion> Clearly no one tested it.
[14:48] <sixwheeledbeast> it's nothing major
[14:49] <sixwheeledbeast> likely some regression.
[14:49] <Kolusion> Its a red flag that it hasn't been tested.
[14:49] <Kolusion> That's enough
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> it probably was tested but things have moved on
[14:50] <arraybolt3> You appear to have installed Ubuntu Desktop and then added the MATE packages?
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> 22.04LTS
[14:50] <Kolusion> I am using the 20.04.1 LTS ISO
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> is the latest
[14:50] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 yes
[14:50] <arraybolt3> That could break things, generally you'd install from an Ubuntu MATE 20.04 disk and get just MATE.
[14:51] <Kolusion> Yeah, and 3 years of support. I want 5 years of support
[14:51] <sixwheeledbeast> if you want ubuntu with mate then better to use the flavour.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> You get three years of support either way.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> It's the packages that are or aren't supported.
[14:51] <Kolusion> It shouldn't break anything. If its in the repo I expect it to work without an in your face error.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> Not the installation media.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> Not all packages are compatible with each other though.
[14:51] <Kolusion> The main repo has 5 years of support in Ubuntu. That's why I asked what repo is MATE in, in Ubuntu MATE.
[14:52] <sixwheeledbeast> what is this server for?
[14:52] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 I read Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE share the same repo, so they should be compatible.
[14:52] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast web server
[14:52] <arraybolt3> I think you're confused as to how Ubuntu repos work. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
[14:52] <sixwheeledbeast> should just run ubuntu-server IMO
[14:53] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 what do you think I am confused about?
[14:53] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast I want a GUI
[14:53] <arraybolt3> MATE is in Universe whether you install it from apt or from an ISO.
[14:53] <arraybolt3> If you install it, you're installing something that only has three years of support.
[14:53] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 ok, thanks. So Ubuntu MATE does not get the same garanteed security updates. That's what I needed to know.
[14:53] <arraybolt3> True. Only some packages in it do.
[14:54] <arraybolt3> The packages in Main, namely.
[14:54] <Kolusion> Yep
[14:59] <Kolusion> Can't believe Canonical aren't shipping Ubuntu with MATE. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS exploded in popularity followed by an exodus in 12.04 LTS, you'd think Canonical would have got the hint.
[15:00] <sixwheeledbeast> they made there own DE then dropped that and gnome had moved on.
[15:00] <Kolusion> I know, I was there.
[15:02] <sixwheeledbeast> i mean Ubuntu-mate has questionable decisions, like the default panel layout for example
[15:03] <sixwheeledbeast> it's not gnome2 style it's more mint style
[15:04] <Kolusion> Yeah I noticed its ugly as. 10.04 LTS had such an awesome theme.
[15:04] <Kolusion> It feels like Windows 95 alpha
[15:05] <arraybolt3> hey, I liked win95, thank you very much :P
[15:06] <Kolusion> Same, in 1997 :)
[15:06] <sixwheeledbeast> traditional layout seems to be hidden away in all the wizards...
[15:07] <sixwheeledbeast> sad that the layout that made the version popular is hidden away for new users.
[15:07] <Kolusion> I tried switching theme and it complained it won't look as intended as ambient-mate isn't installed. I tried to find it in main and universe but can't find it.
[15:08] <Kolusion> Yeah I've had a gut full of Canonical. That's why I'm distro hopping, but the sad reality is there isn't anything near as good as Ubuntu for a long term server.
[15:08] <Kolusion> Been in the FreeBSD realm in the last 24 hours, its an echo chamber smelling of vapor.
[15:10] <Kolusion> Jezuz. I just brought up a screenshot of Ubuntu MATE. It does look like mint!
[15:11] <Kolusion> https://149366088.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screen-Shot-2011-08-19-at-11.31.08.jpg
[15:13] <Kolusion> Thanks for the chat
[15:14] <sixwheeledbeast> ?...
[15:15] <sixwheeledbeast> ambient-mate has been removed ...
[15:15] <sixwheeledbeast> what a weird conversation...
[15:53] <tomreyn> i doubt they noticed the screenshot is from 2011
[15:53] <sixwheeledbeast> :nod: ikr


[00:17] <Querol> hi
[00:17] <Querol> someone here?
[13:03] <guy11> ?
[13:05] <guy11> היי
[13:38] <Guest49127> hu


[00:03] <tomreyn> Ecto1: did you say which kubuntu version, kernel version you are running?
[00:04] <tomreyn> lsb_release -ds & cat /proc/version
[00:05] <tomreyn> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266358&p=5 suggests that you may need a newer linux-firmware for amdgpu
[00:06] <Ecto1> [1] 4228
[00:06] <Ecto1> Linux version 5.11.0-38-generic (buildd@lcy01-amd64-016) (gcc (Ubuntu 10.3.0-1ubuntu1) 10.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.36.1) #42-Ubuntu SMP Fri Sep 24 14:03:54 UTC 2021
[00:07] <tomreyn> sorry, i omitted one &
[00:07] <tomreyn> type    fg
[00:08] <tomreyn> ...bringing the backgrounded    lsb_release -ds    process to the front again
[00:08] <tomreyn> paused, not backgrounded
[00:09] <Ecto1> ?
[00:11] <Ecto1> Ill just give you this instead?: https://pastebin.com/1nfYKRc3
[00:12] <tomreyn> Ecto1: and i suggest you do a release upgrade
[00:13] <Ecto1> Will try
[00:15] <tomreyn> you're on kubuntu 21.04, should upgrade to kubuntu 21.10, this will give you newer amdgpu firmware for your RAVEN generation graphics chipset
[00:16] <tomreyn> if this won't fix it yet, you'll need to manually upgrade the raven* firmware in /lib/firmware from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amdgpu
[00:17] <Ecto1> How should I go about updating the firmware?
[00:18] <tomreyn> do the ubuntu upgrade first. your current ubuntu release only has another ~3 months of support anyways, and there's a good chance that just upgrading kubuntu to the latest will already fix it
[00:18] <tomreyn> *kubuntu upgrade
[00:19] <tomreyn> you can run    update-manager -c    in a terminal to trigger it. always have backups before you do a release upgrade. and ideally remove third party software (version) before starting it.
[00:22] <Ecto1> Alright thanks. Will join again if issues come back
[02:59] <webchat61> hello excuse me, but where do I find the Testing Kubuntu .iso? Like the Snapshot Jammy https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ daily builds?
[03:21] <valorie> hmmm, they post the link where it can be found, then ask where it can be found? Color me confused
[03:37] <alkisg> They pasted the ubuntu link and asked for the Kubuntu link
[05:26] <keithzg> They were so close! The "Parent Directory" link on the linked-to page then goes to https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/, and up another level gets you to https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/, where one of the folders is https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/
[09:00] <user|5> How can i update my lts version of kubuntu to current version 21.10?
[09:25] <jiggawatt> user|5: 21.10 isn't LTS though
[09:27] <jiggawatt> user|5: you can edit /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades and set prompt=normal
[09:27] <jiggawatt> then you can upgrade to non-LTS releases
[09:28] <user|5> Ok. Thanks.
[09:29] <jiggawatt> you're welcome
[13:00] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:14] <jiggawatt> yo BluesKaj
[13:14] <jiggawatt> w00000
[13:15] <BluesKaj> hey jiggawatt
 Hi all 👋
[13:36] <BluesKaj> @Halis, hi
[13:38] <jiggawatt> HEY HALIS
[13:38] <jiggawatt> HOW R U
[13:38] <jiggawatt> where does IrcsomeBot relay from
[13:38] <jiggawatt> matrix?
[13:38] <jiggawatt> freenode?
[13:38] <jiggawatt> irc.mozilla.org ?
[13:39] <RikMills> jiggawatt: telegram group
[13:39] <jiggawatt> Telgram ??!?!??!
[13:39] <jiggawatt> da fuq
[13:39] <jiggawatt> do you guys realize that Telegram groups are not encrypted p2p ?
 yep
[13:40] <jiggawatt> or e2d ?
[13:40] <jiggawatt> sjklfa
[13:40] <jiggawatt> e2e I mean
[13:40] <jiggawatt> Putin controls Durov, btw
[13:40] <jiggawatt> Durov just says otherwise to make all the Russians sign up
[13:40] <jiggawatt> so FSB can see everything that Russians are chatting about
[13:40] <Dragnslcr> It's a public channel that has logs posted on the web. Encryption isn't exactly a high priority.
[13:40] <jiggawatt> True
[13:41] <jiggawatt> Telegram has really good APIs for integrating monitoring systems, etc
[13:41] <jiggawatt> There is a reason for that.... *couch* state-sponsored hacking *cough*
[13:42] <BluesKaj> what's the advantage if any ofusing telegram rather than a proper irc client , something to do with devices?
[13:43] <jiggawatt> well IRC on mobiles usually suck without some service like IRCCloud
[13:43] <jiggawatt> I haven't tested thelounge's mobile clients yet
[13:44] <jiggawatt> Telegram obviously works much better
[13:44] <jiggawatt> it's a mobile-first app
[13:44] <BluesKaj> irc on mobiles is clunky IME
[13:44] <jiggawatt> ya
[13:45] <BluesKaj> so these telegram users aren't using real computers :-)
 BluesKaj: I am
 There is a very mature desktop client for Telegram
 İ do not believe that, but everyone is free to believe. There is no indication, which İ am aware of, that suggests any connection to the FSB (re @IrcsomeBot: <jiggawatt> so FSB can see everything that Russians are chatting about)
 And a public İRC group is end to end encrypted? Was İRC not unencrypted? İ do not know, but it really does not matter in a public group. Everyone can see the messages anyway 😅 (re @IrcsomeBot: <jiggawatt> do you guys realize that Telegram groups are not encrypted p2p ?)
 (Yes, wikipedia says İRC is not e2e encryped either:
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Attacks  )
 OK. This is a support group. Please lets now keep on topic for that. Thanks
 Sorry, İ forgot 🙈
[14:17] <Fatal_Sushi> probably the downside of you not having a kubuntu offtopic channel over at Telegram
[14:17] <Fatal_Sushi> hence it get's messy here in the IRC support channel too
[14:18] <Fatal_Sushi> one of the reasons i am against the bridges between IRC and telegram
[14:36] <RikMills> Fatal_Sushi: we do have an offtopic TG channel
 İ can not find @kubuntu_offtopic channel 🤔
[14:46] <jiggawatt> Halis, are you familiar with Pavel Durov?
[14:46] <jiggawatt> It's very suspicious that he chose Telegram not to use e2e encryption by default
[14:46] <jiggawatt> And we don't know where the Telegram servers are located either
[14:46] <jiggawatt> And there are virtually no known Telegram employees
[14:46] <jiggawatt> (other than Durov)
 We should not discuss this here after we got told to not do so
[14:47] <jiggawatt> It's a very suspicious organization that reeks of Sovietism
[14:47] <jiggawatt> nah it's on-topic
[14:47] <jiggawatt> there is no real offtopic TG channel
[14:47] <jiggawatt> oh maybe there is according to RikMills
 İ can not find @kubuntu_offtopic group 🤔
[15:11] <Fatal_Sushi> jiggawatt: it's not ontopic, if it was ontopic you were talking about Kubuntu support
[15:12] <Fatal_Sushi> not telegram stuff
[15:13] <Fatal_Sushi> RikMills: is the offtopic group on telegram open for everyone? last time it wasn't iirc and not even bridged to the #kubuntu-offtopic irc channel
 Oh, yeah. It was set invite only when our podcast stopped as it was originally the channel for that
 Sorry for confusion
[15:42] <jiggawatt> well Telegram has problems and Kubuntu users' data is being pilfered by it
[15:43] <jiggawatt> but I'll leave it at that
 hello, how I can add new page to KHelpCenter?


[02:25] <WebMaven> SteveA: AYT?
[02:25] <WebMaven> niemeyer: AYT?
[02:25] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Here
[02:25] <niemeyer> WebMaven: But not for long
[02:25] <niemeyer> :)
[02:26] <WebMaven> OK, so as I think about RDB-based Zope3 apps, it occurs to me that all of the examples I have seen hard-code the db connection string.
[02:26] <WebMaven> it is hardcoded in either python or ZCML
[02:27] <WebMaven> This makes it more difficult to distribute an RDB-based application that is supposed to be instantiated.
[02:28] <WebMaven> At least, without editing source code.
[02:28] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Hmmm.. I'm not sure I follow
[02:28] <niemeyer> WebMaven: ZCML isn't source code
[02:28] <niemeyer> It's supposed to hold configuration
[02:28] <WebMaven> If that configuration is part of the application package, it is source code.
[02:30] <niemeyer> WebMaven: ZCML allows you to overload package-specific setups
[02:31] <WebMaven> Hmm. So, over-riding the default DB configuration...
[02:31] <WebMaven> OK, *that* makes sense...
[02:31] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Yeah, override
[02:33] <WebMaven> Is that what Launchpad does? Declare defaults in the packages and override them for deployment?
[02:34] <WebMaven> Or do you have some TTW RDB configuration (perhaps in the form of a utility)?
[02:38] <niemeyer> Launchpad has configuration files that contains those definitions.
[02:38] <niemeyer> s/contains/contain/
[02:39] <WebMaven> And do you use that default/override pattern?
[02:39] <niemeyer> WebMaven: There aren't many reasons to write a configuration file and override it if you're maintaining both of them in your own environment.
[02:40] <WebMaven> Umm. Perhaps not, if 1) you only even run one instance of the app, and 2) you don't intend to release it.
[02:41] <WebMaven> But even then, it means that a change in *deployment* will require a change to the *source*, which can't be good.
[02:42] <niemeyer> WebMaven: That isn't true..
[02:43] <WebMaven> OK.
[02:43] <niemeyer> WebMaven: It's a configuration file
[02:43] <niemeyer> WebMaven: You can have as many configuration files as you want for as many deployment environments as you have
[02:44] <niemeyer> WebMaven: It's not source code.. unless you consider /etc/X11/xorg.conf source code as well..
[02:44] <WebMaven> So, you're saying that you don't override package default configuration files because none of the configuration is *in* the packages?
[02:45] <jamesh> WebMaven: we actually use a ZConfig file to configure the exact details of the database connection
[02:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: We use ZCML
[02:46] <jamesh> for Launchpad it is in a ZConfig file
[02:46] <niemeyer> Of course, jamesh "we" is not the same as my "we" :-)
[02:46] <LarstiQ> nor my "we"
[02:46] <WebMaven> Ah, OK.
[02:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: Yeah, I know
[02:46] <LarstiQ> mine is a nintendo
[02:46] <jamesh> the "we" I'd use if I was talking on #launchpad
[02:47] <jamesh> WebMaven: we've been considering moving over to a simpler ini file format for this configuration though
[02:47] <WebMaven> Huh. OK, I sort of assumed that Canonical would have a common pattern for DB configuration across it's apps.
[02:47] <niemeyer> Hopefully we will, soon..
[02:48] <jamesh> WebMaven: in a way we've been doing the normal XP programming pattern: write the code then extract what's common
[02:48] <WebMaven> Which will it look like?
[02:48] <niemeyer> When jamesh's "we" become the same as mine..
[02:48] <WebMaven> niemeyer: what's your 'we' right now?
[02:48] <jamesh> Canonical
[02:49] <WebMaven> Ah, Launchpad != Canonical. Gotcha.
[02:49] <jamesh> Launchpad is one of Canonical's projects
[02:49] <WebMaven> So, which pattern will become the common one?
[02:49] <jamesh> niemeyer's project is another Canonical project
[02:50] <niemeyer> WebMaven: That's a good question for which a very nice answer will be defined
[02:50] <jamesh> WebMaven: probably the ini file.
[02:51] <jamesh> but maybe not
[02:51] <jamesh> Launchpad's database code could do with a bit of simplification here
[02:52] <jamesh> we've got two database adapters: one for the web app and one for the scripts
[02:52] <WebMaven> scripts?
[02:52] <jamesh> this is mainly due to the fact that most of our scripts weren't using the zope component model before
[02:52] <jamesh> they are now, so the two database adapters are just bloat now
[02:52] <WebMaven> Ah, for batch operations and the like?
[02:53] <jamesh> WebMaven: we've got various cron jobs and other scripts that make use of the same Python code as the webapp
[02:53] <WebMaven> Right. I'm looking at a similar pattern.
[02:53] <WebMaven> at least, for some user-initiated jobs.
[02:54] <jamesh> over time, we found it was annoying not having the same features available to scripts (e.g. utilities, security proxies, etc)
[02:54] <jamesh> so we now initialise the zope component model for most scripts too
[02:54] <WebMaven> Hah. That *is* bloated.
[02:54] <niemeyer> Ok, I'm off to bed.. good night folks
[02:55] <WebMaven> niemeyer: thanks.
[02:55] <niemeyer> You're welcome
[02:55] <jamesh> WebMaven: well, it is definitely needed for e.g. the incoming bugmail handler script
[02:55] <jamesh> WebMaven: it is performing actions on behalf of the user.
[02:56] <jamesh> we either duplicate all the permissions that we defined for the webapp for the script (and make sure they don't go out of sync), or initialise the security system
[02:56] <WebMaven> I understand, but if you're depending on all that, you should be able to use the same connection and not have to pull in the CA to a script.
[02:57] <jamesh> it isn't really that much of a problem
[02:57] <WebMaven> OK.
[02:57] <jamesh> and a lot of these scripts are doing pretty complex things
[02:57] <jamesh> and the security proxies keep you honest :)
[02:57] <WebMaven> So, assuming you transition to a common ini-based system, what will that look like?
[02:59] <WebMaven> Do you put the ini file in a package and point to it with ZCML in etc/package-includes ?
[03:03] <WebMaven> jamesh: AYT?
[03:04] <jamesh> WebMaven: in our current system, we have a module called "canonical.config", which loads up a ZConfig file
[03:05] <jamesh> WebMaven: we have a custom database adapter configured in the ZCML, which uses the settings from canonical.config to work out which database to talk to
[03:05] <jamesh> I'd guess it would be similar when using an ini file
[03:05] <WebMaven> And you point to the module with ZCML?
[03:05] <jamesh> the database adapter or canonical.config?
[03:05] <WebMaven> the config
[03:06] <jamesh> canonical.config uses an environment variable to pick a config file
[03:06] <WebMaven> Hmm.
[03:07] <WebMaven> Let's start over.
[03:07] <WebMaven> canonical.config is a package, or a module?
[03:08] <jamesh> module
[03:08] <WebMaven> so 'canonical' is a package?
[03:08] <jamesh> yes
[03:09] <WebMaven> where does this package get installed? site-packages or $instance/lib/python/ ?
[03:10] <jamesh> it is part of the Launchpad source tree
[03:11] <WebMaven> which gets put into the Zope instance's /lib/python ?
[03:12] <jamesh> umm
[03:12] <jamesh> Launchpad is more of "an application that uses Zope libraries" rather than something that runs inside Zope
[03:12] <WebMaven> Oh.
[03:12] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:13] <jamesh> so our source tree has a lib/ directory with all the Python libraries, including a symlink through to the zope package
[03:13] <jamesh> along with sqlobject, etc
[03:14] <WebMaven> Hmm.
[03:15] <WebMaven> Well, I'm building an app that (at least right now) runs inside Zope.
[03:17] <WebMaven> Given that I *intend* to run this as both a large-scale instance (al-la Launchpad) and as smaller instances (possibly client specific), how would you suggest the DB configuration be set up?
[03:18] <jamesh> well, as I said our canonical.config module picks its configuration from an environment variable
[03:18] <jamesh> at the toplevel of the Launchpad tree, there is a configs directory, and a subdirectory for each config under that
[03:18] <thumper> jamesh: are you available for a skype call soonish?
[03:19] <jamesh> each of those subdirectories contains a launchpad.conf file.  We have a few for each production app server, one for staging.launchpad.net, one for a developer's machine, etc
[03:19] <jamesh> thumper: okay
[03:19] <thumper> jamesh: in 10 minutes?
[03:19] <jamesh> okay
[03:20] <WebMaven> Ahh...
[03:20] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:20] <WebMaven> I assume the custom DB adapter that uses this config info is non-trivial, and unreleased?
[03:21] <jamesh> WebMaven: it isn't very complex at all
[03:22] <jamesh> WebMaven: it is a simple subclass of psycopgda, that pulls the connection string from the config file instead of ZCML, and provides some proxy cursor objects that perform some additional logging
[03:22] <WebMaven> Will it work with SQLAlchemy?
[03:23] <jamesh> I don't know.  I haven't used SQLAlchemy
[03:23] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:23] <jamesh> I guess ZAlchemy is designed to get SQLAlchemy to use a Zope database adapter, so the answer is probably yes
[03:25] <WebMaven> Actually, I don't think so. The ZAlchemy configuration I've seen so far has a hard-coded connection string. I'm going to look into it some more.
[03:26] <WebMaven> Thank you. This has been informative.
[05:39] <thumper> ping: mpt
[05:46] <mpt> thumper, nice ping you got there
[05:47] <thumper> mpt: are you ok with a skype voice call?
[05:49] <mpt> sure
[05:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78885 in rosetta "no translation template for liferea 1.2 series" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78885
[06:10] <Ubug2> New bug: #78889 in malone "Changing bug's product to an unregistered one gives unhelpful "Invalid value" error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78889
[08:25] <Ubug2> New bug: #78898 in malone "URL linkification not Unicode aware" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78898
[08:55] <Ubug2> New bug: #78899 in malone "bugs.launchpad.net source package page isn't about bugs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78899
[09:17] <carlos> morning
[09:28] <SteveA> WebMaven: hello
[09:28] <SteveA> WebMaven: do you know how the standard Zope 3 system uses a .conf file and a .zcml file?
[09:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78907 in rosetta "distrorelease.txt test has a time bomb" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78907
[09:50] <WebMaven> SteveA: Hi.
[09:51] <WebMaven> Yes, I do.
[09:51] <WebMaven> I had a conversation with jamesh and niemeyer
[09:52] <WebMaven> Actually, I hadn't realized before that launchpad was more of a 'application built with Zope3 libraries' and less of a 'application running in Zope3'.
[09:53] <WebMaven> So, the configuration setup isn't exactly comparable to my setup.
[09:53] <WebMaven> Still, it was a productive conversation.
[10:18] <SteveA> WebMaven: I read a bit of the scrollback
[10:18] <SteveA> WebMaven: we use the same set-up system as zope3, pretty much.  It looks like you're not fully aware of how zope3 works in this regard.
[10:19] <SteveA> when you run the standard zope3 start-up script, you can point it at a .conf file.  there's a default file if you don't explicitly choose one.
[10:19] <SteveA> Inside that .conf file is a pointer to the root zcml file.
[10:19] <SteveA> this is all standard zope3
[10:19] <SteveA> from the questions you were asking above, you seem to think it's the other way around, that the zcml reads in the conf file or something
[10:20] <SteveA> the zcml is for software configuration.
[10:20] <SteveA> the conf file is for per-process or per-instance configuration
[10:20] <SteveA> so, a sysadmin can be expected to edit the conf file, but not zcml files.
[10:20] <SteveA> I don't know what "an application running in zope3" would mean.
[10:35] <WebMaven> SteveA: No, I was talking about *application* configuration.
[10:35] <WebMaven> ie. if I create an application that needs to be configured when it's instantiated (in this case to point at a db), then where do I put that so the admin does not need to edit the source code for the app?
[10:36] <WebMaven> So, for example, ZAlchemy has ZCML directives for setting up the db connection.
[10:36] <WebMaven> The demo code I'm looking at puts that inside the package for the app.
[10:37] <WebMaven> As far as I'm concerned, ZCML that is inside a package is source code.
[10:42] <WebMaven> In Launchpad's case, there is no distinction between the application and the application server, so you can use the same configuration mechanism for both. That isn't true in every situation.
[10:43] <WebMaven> In my case, I think I need to put configuration into a second package outside the application package.
[10:47] <WebMaven> SteveA: Does that make sense?
[11:05] <WebMaven> SteveA: ayt?
[11:07] <highvoltage> hi. any launchpad admins around?
[11:08] <SteveA> WebMaven: what do you say that database configuration is "application" configuration?
[11:08] <SteveA> I don't think it's appropriate to put this kind of database configuration in zcml.
[11:08] <SteveA> because, it's something that will change for every deployment.
[11:08] <SteveA> if zope3 works like that for the zalchemy stuff you're using, then I'd consider that a misdesign in how that stuff is configured
[11:09] <SteveA> I think you're right in thinking of zcml as effectively source code
[11:11] <highvoltage> ok, I'll just ask...
[11:11] <highvoltage> If I have a distribution I want managed in Launchpad, how do I go about applying for it?
[11:12] <highvoltage> and too which degree does the distribution /have/ to live in Launchpad?
[11:13] <seb128> grump
[11:13] <seb128> launchpad should refuse to open bug with thousand of lines to the descriptions
[11:13] <seb128> there is some people around copying the crash file to the bug description :/
[11:15] <WebMaven> SteveA: here is an example:
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:engine
[11:15] <WebMaven>       name="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       url="mysql://root:root@localhost/helloworld"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:connectTable
[11:15] <WebMaven>       table="HelloWorldMessage"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       engine="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:connectClass
[11:15] <WebMaven>       class=".message.HelloWorldMessage"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       engine="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <mpt> seb128, Launchpad shouldn't try to display thousands of lines of description
[11:16] <mpt> oh, wait, that's exactly what you said
[11:16] <mpt> never mind me
[11:16] <seb128> well, either that
[11:16] <seb128> or it should refuse to file the bug
[11:16] <mpt> batching!
[11:16] <WebMaven> SteveA: this does not, as far as I can tell, set up a Zope DA of any sort.
[11:16] <seb128> saying to the submitter to attach the crash as a file instead
[11:16] <mpt> "_Previous 1000 lines_  _Next 1000 lines_"
[11:18] <mpt> Yours is a much better idea
[11:19] <mpt> seb128, can you give one or two examples of bugs with massive descriptions?
[11:20] <SteveA> WebMaven: having that "url=" line in the zcml is a mistake.
[11:20] <WebMaven> SteveA: So, When building a site that composes applications that each need there own db configuration, it seems to me that it's OK if the app source has defaults configured in the source, because, as was pointed out, these can be overridden.
[11:21] <SteveA> it's a mistake on many different levels
[11:21] <WebMaven> Probably, but I may not be able to convince the ZAlchemy author of that.
[11:21] <SteveA> there is a password embedded in the source
[11:21] <SteveA> and it's encouraging configuration of zcml per-deployment
[11:22] <WebMaven> Yes, but that's OK if it's a default that is intended to be overridden (then the one in the source can just point to an unauthenticated sqllite connection)
[11:22] <SteveA> one solution is to replace "url=" with 'conf_file_thing="name used in launchpad.conf"'
[11:23] <SteveA> it's not OK for it to be a default intended to be overridden
[11:23] <WebMaven> SteveA: regarding configuration per deployment, yes, exactly.
[11:23] <SteveA> read up about MS sql server, and its problems with default passwords
[11:23] <WebMaven> that *is* the problem.
[11:24] <SteveA> the actual configuration should be in launchpad.conf
[11:24] <SteveA> and the software configuration says "here's where you find the configuration in launchpad.conf"
[11:24] <SteveA> maybe the author can be convinced of that.
[11:24] <WebMaven> Well, zope.conf, in this case.
[11:25] <SteveA> yeah :-)
[11:25] <SteveA> or whatever conf file you're pointing the start-up script at
[11:25] <seb128> mpt: bug #78872
[11:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78872 in totem "Crash with wmv file" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78872 - Assigned to Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)
[11:25] <seb128> bug #78813
[11:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78813 in libgnomeui "Ubuntu crashes since last update" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78813
[11:25] <SteveA> WebMaven: thanks for the idea for sponsoring pycon.  I had a talk with the organisers, and we'll be sponsoring at some level.
[11:26] <WebMaven> Very cool!
[11:28] <seb128> mpt: the problem with those is that there is not so many lines, there is just a thousand of chars line from the coredump of the crash
[11:30] <mpt> thanks seb128, reported bug 78911
[11:30] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
[11:30] <seb128> mpt: np, thank you for opening the bug ;)
[11:30] <WebMaven> SteveA: I think you're wrong about a default sqllite connection string being a problem. As far as I know, it doesn't give remote access.
[11:31] <WebMaven> ie: sqlite:///zalchemy.message.db
[11:31] <WebMaven> it's unauthenticated.
[11:33] <SteveA> WebMaven: it's a problem because it's encouraging people who don't know better to override it with authenticated information
[11:34] <WebMaven> Ah, in the app source. Yes.
[11:34] <SteveA> so, it's not a problem to have a default
[11:34] <SteveA> it's how you present overriding that default
[11:34] <WebMaven> But for my near-term purposes, I think I can just put an overriding ZCML file outside the package.
[11:35] <SteveA> sure, you can do that
[11:35] <Ubug2> New bug: #78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
[11:41] <WebMaven> I agree this is not ideal, but it's the way I have forward right now, given I can only ask the ZAlchemy maintainer for so much help.
[11:41] <WebMaven> Right now I need him to apply a two line patch that makes ISQLAlchemyContainer subclass IContainerNamesContainer instead of IContainer.
[11:41] <WebMaven> for example.
[11:58] <cprov> good morning, guys
[12:05] <Ubug2> New bug: #78917 in rosetta "'Someone should review...' checkbox should not be mapped to gettext's fuzzy feature" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78917
[12:22] <sabdfl> hey lunchpadders
[12:22] <sabdfl> is the lp voting system in good shape?
[12:22] <SteveA> http://www.visual-literacy.org/periodic_table/periodic_table.html  <-- nice page giving summary of different visualization techniques
[12:23] <SteveA> sabdfl: there's an oops to do with the default option, for which there's a fix that hasn't yet been rolled out.  other than that, it ought to be working fine.
[12:23] <SteveA> sabdfl: why do you ask?
[12:23] <sabdfl> CC and TB elections coming up
[12:23] <SteveA> stub: when can we get the polls oops-fix out?
[12:25] <SteveA> bug 76854
[12:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 76854 in launchpad-bazaar "Launchpad does not understand bzr+ssh: urls" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76854 - Assigned to Elliot Murphy (emurphy)
[12:25] <SteveA> hmm, wrong one
[12:26] <SteveA> sabdfl: I'll ask that matsubara give it some QA love.  when are the elections starting?
[12:26] <sabdfl> next week or two
[12:26] <SteveA> ok
[12:30] <highvoltage> any Launchpad admins around? I need some information on hosting an Ubuntu derivative in LP.
[12:31] <SteveA> highvoltage: you can talk with kiko about that.  He'll be around in an hour or so.
[12:31] <highvoltage> SteveA: great. I'll do that. thanks
[12:50] <stub> SteveA: Either poll fixes have not landed, or their bugs where not critical, or nobody decided to request the cherry pick. I can do a cherrypick tomorrow if someone adds the relevant details to the wiki
[12:56] <matsubara> stub, SteveA: it has landed. I'll request the cherrypick.
[12:58] <SteveA> thanks matsubara
[01:04] <kiko> hey highvoltage
[01:04] <highvoltage> hey kiko!
[01:05] <kiko> what's going on?
[01:05] <highvoltage> kiko: I'd like to know more about how an Ubuntu derivative can use Launchpad
[01:06] <highvoltage> kiko: is there a process the maintainers should go through?
[01:06] <sabdfl> stevea, kikomatic, we on for this call?
[01:06] <highvoltage> kiko: I couldn't find much info about it on the ubuntu website or on launchpad itself
[01:06] <kiko> sabdfl, why not?
[01:06] <sabdfl> stub, matsubara: it doesn't need a cherrypick
[01:06] <kiko> highvoltage, okay. i have a call now, but the immediate answer is that you can use it for bug, spec and answer tracking right now
[01:07] <highvoltage> kiko: no problem, I'll bug you again later
[01:07] <kiko> highvoltage, you basically have available to you everything that upstream products have
[01:14] <static> hello launchpadsters!
[01:42] <PierreTramo> hi!
[01:43] <PierreTramo> i'd like to help the project by translating from English to French
[01:43] <PierreTramo> isn't this supposed to be done through Rosetta?
[01:43] <PierreTramo> I can't get how it works!
[01:44] <lifeless> PierreTramo: well, have you clicked through to the translation pages ?
[02:15] <Ubug2> New bug: #78668 in Ubuntu "Unicode problem in the partition windows (dup-of: 1)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78668
[03:09] <poningru> how big can the password in launchpad be?
[03:11] <kiko> as big as you like
[03:12] <poningru> sweet
[03:13] <poningru> sweet another thing over bugzilla
[03:14] <kiko> poor justdave
[03:14] <kiko> poningru, is there a limit for bugzilla?!
[03:14] <poningru> 16
[03:14] <kiko> didn't know that and I wonder why that is
[03:14] <poningru> I dont know if thats a bugzilla thing or a bmo thing
[03:15] <kiko> since we store that as a hash in the bugzilla database anyway
[03:17] <poningru> kiko: you know justdave?
[03:18] <kiko> yeah, a long way back
[03:18] <kiko> I am a long-time bugzilla contributor
[03:18] <kiko> | cryptpassword  | varchar(128) | YES  |     | NULL                |                |
[03:18] <kiko> so we store a 128-char encrypted hash
[03:19] <poningru> ah nice
[03:19] <kiko> that's in bugzilla
[03:20] <kiko> I don't see this 16-char limit you are referring to, poningru
[03:21] <poningru> must be bmo then
[03:21] <poningru> eitherway complaining to justdave
[03:21] <kiko> odd.
[03:22] <kiko> poningru, maybe it's a limitation in the perl crypt() function.
[03:22] <kiko> we generate the salt and supply that and the raw password to crypt
[04:05] <Ubug2> New bug: #78942 in launchpad "Redirection issue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78942
[04:16] <TeTeT> when submitting a bug via launchpad it would be useful to restrict the visibility of a bug when submitting it
[04:19] <salgado> TeTeT, there's a bug reported for that, but you can do it if you use the advanced file bug form
[04:20] <TeTeT> salgado: ok, will try
[04:22] <TeTeT> salgado: thanks, I see a checkbox for 'This bug is a security vulnerability' now
[04:28] <lotusleaf> Hello, is there a way to remove the "Latest lotusleaf support requests" from my launchpad user page?
[04:28] <lotusleaf> I believe I tried some unsubscribe option but it didn't work
[04:32] <doko> lifeless: can bzr use the elementtree included in python2.5?
[04:56] <kNo`> hi all
[04:57] <kNo`> stupid question of the day: can I delete one of my projects in LP?
[04:57] <kNo`> (I know it's dumb)
[04:58] <doko> launchpad error, I get Accepted *and* Rejected messages (up to 3)
[04:59] <salgado> kNo`, no, that's not possible today, although we can mark the product as disabled so that it doesn't show up anywhere
[04:59] <kNo`> salgado: thank you very much
[05:35] <kiko> doko, it's best if you file a more precise bug report, or contact us through email with details
[05:40] <doko> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/78955
[05:40] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78955 in launchpad "BOTH Accepted AND Rejected mails are sent " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[05:40] <kiko> thanks doko
[05:41] <kiko> doko, perhaps attach two or three messages with full headers
[05:48] <doko> kiko: done
[05:48] <kiko> thanks!
[05:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78955 in launchpad "BOTH Accepted AND Rejected mails are sent " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78955
[06:06] <laszlok> is fix-it-friday still on, or has everyone gone home by now?
[06:06] <kiko> we never go home
[06:06] <laszlok> okay cool :)
[06:08] <laszlok> heres what i want: under advanced search (for bugs) there is a people section and you can choose Doesn't matter, Nobody, or enter a name. Could I get a "Me" radio button there?
[06:08] <matsubara> speaking of Fix-it-friday, SteveA could you take a look at https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs and approve the tags I proposed there?
[06:11] <matsubara> laszlok: if you want to browse your +assignedbugs, you can do it through https://launchpad.net/~<yourlaunchpadname>/+assignedbugs
[06:12] <laszlok> matsubara: but when i do that, things that have been marked fix committed still show up, and i consider those fixed so i dont want to see them
[06:12] <laszlok> thus i have to use advanced search
[06:17] <matsubara> laszlok: how a "Me" radio button would help you with that?
[06:19] <laszlok> because then i click advanced search, uncheck fix committed, click the "me" radio button and click search, instead of having to type in my name
[06:20] <laszlok> i know i could just spend the 5 seconds typing it, but launchpad already uses a "me" radio button when it asks you who to assign a bug to
[06:30] <kiko> laszlok, also, +assignedbugs allows you to filter fix committed, did you know that?
[06:30] <matsubara> laszlok: well, you can bookmark that page, like: https://launchpad.net/~matsubara/+assignedbugs?field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress
[06:30] <laszlok> no i didnt kiko, how would i do that
[06:31] <matsubara> laszlok: the above URL only shows bugs assigned to me which are: unconfirmed, needs info, confirmed or in progress.
[06:32] <kiko> laszlok, click on "advanced" on +assignedbugs
[09:25] <lifeless> doko: if it has the C module
[09:25] <doko> lifeless: python2.5 comes with its own implementation
[09:48] <mdke> SteveA: here by any chance?
[10:25] <SteveA> mdke: kind of :-)
[10:25] <mdke> SteveA: couple of quick things.
[10:26] <mdke> SteveA: first of all, I saw your nice comments about Paolo Sammicheli's email to rosetta-users with the specs, and passed them onto him, he was really stoked
[10:26] <mdke> SteveA: secondly, I wanted to ask whether there are any plans for LP providing its authentication service for websites, whether by openid or otherwise; newz told me you were the one to ask
[10:27] <SteveA> I don't think I made any comments about the specs
[10:29] <mdke> SteveA: well, someone stole your nick and did
[10:29] <SteveA> wow, maybe I'm writing in my sleep :-)
[10:29] <mdke> you mentioned to kiko that you were impressed about him having registered them and you hoped that his enthusiasm wouldn't go to waste, or something similar
[10:30] <mdke> I happened to catch it in the scrollback, so thought I'd pass them on
[10:30] <SteveA> we're looking at making launchpad speak openid, at first just as a means to link together certain things we're running in the datacentre, and later on looking at how it makes sense to offer open id more widely
[10:31] <SteveA> oh, right.  Yeah, I saw them and passed it along for Kiko to look at, as kiko is more directly involved than me in rosetta development right now.
[10:31] <SteveA> so, thanks.  Didn't realize that had ended up public :-)
[10:31] <mdke> was in here
[10:31] <mdke> SteveA: tbh, within the datacenter would be a great start. Any idea of the sort of timescale?
[10:32] <SteveA> I'm expecting us to be internally testing stuff within the next 6 weeks
[10:33] <mdke> SteveA: oh wow, that's better news than I'd expected
[10:33] <SteveA> what kind of things do you have in mind for open id?
[10:34] <mdke> SteveA: I'd like to be able to upgrade some of the wiki software, also maybe have auth for the Fridge, and hopefully, the various parts of the website of our locoteam
[10:35] <mdke> wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community still use Moin 1.3, seems that there is an unwillingness to upgrade because of the difficulty of migrating the authentication hack
[10:35] <mdke> apparently openid or similar would make that a lot easier
[10:36] <SteveA> well
[10:37] <SteveA> if there's stuff to integrate into launchpad's authentication, we can talk about doing that independendly of it using open id as a mechanism
[10:37] <SteveA> I don't want to carry forward the way we've done this in the past, though
[10:37] <mdke> right
[10:37] <SteveA> so, for moin, spiv wrote a patch for it (no really clean place to plug it in)
[10:38] <SteveA> but he's not involved in upstream development of moin
[10:38] <mdke> I'm told it would be a bad idea to try and update that for moin 1.5
[10:38] <SteveA> so the patch won't apply right now
[10:38] <mdke> right
[10:39] <SteveA> but, I do have a budget for working with someone who is involved in upstream development who is interested in maintaining our patch, essentially porting it to the latest moin, and keeping it up to date with latest developments
[10:39] <mdke> oh. I got the opposite impression :)
[10:39] <SteveA> so, if you know anyone who would be interested in some small compensation for keeping a small add-on working for us
[10:39] <SteveA> then I'm interested in talking with them
[10:40] <mdke> SteveA: the thing is, moin 1.6 will be out soon
[10:40] <SteveA> the idea would be it's someone who's already working on moin development
[10:40] <mdke> and if you will be implementing something clear within a reasonably short timescale, then it might not be worth updating the patch, no?
[10:40] <mdke> clear/clean
[10:41] <SteveA> so it wouldn't take them a lot of work to keep up with this, and keep the patch up to date with the current way moin works
[10:41] <SteveA> I really don't know how much the relevant parts of moin changed between 1.5 and 1.6
[10:42] <SteveA> but this fact alone shouldn't stand in the way of us offering a good wiki experience to ubuntu users
[10:43] <mdke> well, if you'd said "we'll be implementing something, but not for the next 12 months", I'd definitely agree
[10:43] <mdke> but the wiki experience is not so atrocious that it can't wait a couple of months
[10:43] <SteveA> do you know if there's an openid plugin for moin already?
[10:43] <mdke> no, but newz seemed to be under the impression that 1.6 would have one...
[10:43] <SteveA> because, I'd still like to work with moin upstream on making that suitable for use on our wikis too
[10:44] <SteveA> open id is meant for any party to work with any other party
[10:44] <mdke> right
[10:44] <SteveA> but, at least at first, we want the wikis to continue to work just with launchpad
[10:44] <mdke> sure
[10:44] <SteveA> so, the UI for authenticating can stay simpler -- no need to type in a full URL to your page on launchpad, for example
[10:45] <SteveA> using your launchpad username or email address would be fine
[10:45] <SteveA> so, there will still be some customization of moin
[10:45] <mdke> I'd be uncomfortable about any other way
[10:45] <SteveA> and rather than get launchpad devs to learn moin to do that
[10:45] <SteveA> I'd like to work with moin upstream
[10:45] <mdke> they are good guys, in my experience
[10:45] <SteveA> if you know suitable people, get me talking with them :-)
[10:45] <SteveA> hi jml
[10:46] <jml> SteveA: hi
[10:46] <mdke> SteveA: alright, maybe the project leader would be the first person to ask
[10:46] <SteveA> 13:16 < SteveA> I want to make sure Paolo's motivation doesn't go to waste
[10:46] <SteveA> so I did say that :-)
[10:47] <SteveA> anyway, it's true.  I'm pleased when someone from our community of users takes the time to describe what they'd like, and registers it in launchpad as a blueprint, and tells us all about it on a mailing list
[10:47] <SteveA> it's a very positive way to contribute ideas and energy to the project
[10:47] <mdke> he's a good chap too
[10:50] <SteveA> so the same goes for authenticating things like the fridge
[10:50] <SteveA> I want to make a connection with someone from the upstream development of the software that we use for it
[10:51] <SteveA> and arrange with them to maintain what we need for authentication, whether that's something custom for us, or an openid implementation
[10:51] <mdke> SteveA: it's drupal
[10:52] <mdke> SteveA: ok, that sounds really promising, if I can help you make contact I will
[10:52] <SteveA> thanks!
[10:53] <SteveA> so, drupal is in PHP?
[10:53] <mdke> yes
[10:53] <SteveA> we have no php expertise on the launchpad team
[10:54] <mdke> extraordinary
[10:54] <mdke> :)
[10:54] <mdke> even more reason to get upstream to do it
[10:54] <SteveA> I know that matt nuzum has some php expertise
[10:54] <SteveA> but he has lots of other stuff to do than write and maintain drupal add-ons
[10:54] <SteveA> so yeah
[10:54] <SteveA> it makes sense to talk with upstream
[10:55] <SteveA> and I hope it makes sense for them too
[10:55] <mdke> right


[05:22] <Langjan> Hey the Aussies are here! Hi mate...
[05:23] <Langjan> Is that a kangaroo tail?
[05:23] <Langjan> there by Kilos-
[05:25] <Kilos-> AW MISSED HIM
[05:25] <Kilos-> oops
[05:26] <Kilos> wb Langjan
[05:26] <Langjan> How you doing Kilos ?
[05:26] <Langjan> nb Kilos
[05:26] <Kilos> very wwell ty Langjan and you?
[05:26] <Kilos> whats nb
[05:26] <Langjan> Good thanks, good to see you here
[05:26] <Kilos> nota bena
[05:27] <Kilos> yes took a while to get power for the lappy
[05:27] <Langjan> nothing broke, lmga! that must be a long wire halfway around the globe
[05:28] <Kilos> international adapter does work in aus
[05:28] <Langjan> plug connectors?
[05:28] <Langjan> good
[05:28] <Kilos> yip in the end i cut the cable off a toaster and lassed the wire to mine
[05:28] <Langjan> Your day is almost gone, 15:30
[05:28] <Kilos> nononono
[05:29] <Kilos> internalnional adapter does not work here
[05:29] <Langjan> ok you said it does...
[05:29] <Kilos> and then said nononono
[05:30] <Kilos> i read my own posts as well to see mistakes
[05:30] <Kilos> its cold here
[05:30] <Kilos> no sun yet
[05:30] <Kilos> and
[05:30] <Kilos> these peeps are skelm i think
[05:31] <Langjan> Ja its quite far south
[05:31] <Langjan> skelm? why?
[05:31] <Kilos> beer mugs are 400 ml not 500 ml like there
[05:31] <Langjan> lmga!
[05:31] <Kilos> i couldnt understand why my coffee got finished so quick
[05:32] <Langjan> and about 10 dollars a shot, more than R100?
[05:32] <Langjan> beer about 5 I think, R60
[05:32] <Kilos> man i drink coffee and tea
[05:32] <Langjan> in beer mugs?
[05:32] <Kilos> yes
[05:33] <Langjan> what a waste
[05:33] <Kilos> tea cups are make for ladies
[05:33] <Kilos> whats the waste
[05:33] <Kilos> i  drink every drop
[05:33] <Langjan> tea and coffee in beer mugs
[05:34] <Langjan> better to use coffee mugs
[05:34] <Kilos> much healthier than beer in a tea cup
[05:34] <Kilos> or coffee mug
[05:34] <Langjan> water even better
[05:34] <Kilos> coffee mugs are 250 or 300ml
[05:34] <Langjan> or rooibos
[05:34] <Kilos> yes i drink rooibos
[05:35] <Langjan> better so, too much coffee very bad
[05:35] <Langjan> do you get it in oz? rooibos
[05:35] <Kilos> yeah but nescafe gold is lekker
[05:35] <Kilos> yes tara drinks rooibos
[05:36] <Langjan> good, feather in her cap
[05:36] <Kilos> no place for cap, too much hair
[05:37] <Langjan> you only there two days and already thinking like an aussie
[05:37] <Langjan> I will have to explain more clearly
[05:38] <Kilos> i live on beer mugs of tea man
[05:38] <Kilos> for many years already
[05:40] <Langjan> you got uncapped there? then we can chat on Skype
[05:40] <Kilos> oh ya
[05:40] <Langjan> wi fi?
[05:41] <Kilos> i have even posted a 30 meg video on facebook
[05:41] <Kilos> ya hole house wifi
[05:41] <Langjan> nice, like mine, works well
[05:42] <Kilos> yip but here place polluted with windows pcs
[06:51] <dlPhreak> Morning
[06:56] <inetpro> good mornings
[06:58] <inetpro> oh and good evening Kilos as well
[06:58] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[06:58] <inetpro> what's time there now?
[06:58] <Kilos> 4.58pm
[07:30] <Kilos> pavlushka congrats on your ubuntu membership
[07:30] <Kilos> keep up the good work ladd
[07:30] <superfly> Hi Kilos!
[07:30] <Kilos> hi superfly
[07:30] <Kilos> ty for fb comments
[08:00] <pavlushka> Thanks Kilos :), you made me do that :p
[08:00] <pavlushka> Hello superfly :)
[08:01] <superfly> hi pavlushka
[08:01] <pavlushka> superfly: how's your kids? :)
[08:02] <superfly> pavlushka: the same as usual
[08:07] <pavlushka> I became uncle of a new born niece 10 days before, but she and her mother are 500 kms away, dying to see them :(
[08:11] <MaNI> better 500km than 11000km - they need to hurry up with teleportation :p
[08:15] <nlsthzn> congrats pavlushka :)
[08:16] <pavlushka> lol @ MaNI
[08:16] <pavlushka> thanks nlsthzn :)
[08:28] <nlsthzn> uncle Kilos, thanks for the facebook updates, from the photo's and video it is a good thing you have ears or your smile would have gone right round your head :p
[08:28] <Kilos> rofl
[08:28] <nlsthzn> oh and congrats, I am so happy you finally made it!!!
[08:28] <Kilos> ty so much neelsie
[08:32] <nlsthzn> not sure why this song just popped into my head https://youtu.be/XfR9iY5y94s
[08:39] <superfly> nlsthzn: hahahaha
[08:39] <superfly> the music video is even weirder
[08:39] <nlsthzn> first time watching it myself :p
[08:55] <dlPhreak> Epic song nlsthzn. First song I ever learned to play on guitar.
[09:07] <nlsthzn> nice dlPhreak
[13:14] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight. 11.13 pm here
[13:14] <Kilos> see you morrow
[13:15] <kulelu88> where is Kilos? OZ?
[13:15] <nlsthzn> yup
[13:16] <nlsthzn> in the land down under
[13:53] <andrewlsd> have a good weekend all
[13:56] <jerit> in #linux...
[13:56] <jerit> [15:50] <jerit> I just typed did a sudo rm -rf / and now I can't do anything
[13:56] <jerit> [15:51] <Dominian> jerit: I really hope you're joking
[14:02] <andrewlsd> jerit: it shouldn't be possible these days without a `--force-root` option or something
[14:02] <andrewlsd> ... --no-preserve-root
[14:05] <jerit> yup that's why its a joke and everything
[14:15] <andrewlsd> aah
[14:15] <andrewlsd> sorry, didn't realize it was a joke.
[14:15]  * andrewlsd is ready for weekend
[14:20] <andrewlsd> cheers all.
[18:00] <magespawn> chat later home time
[18:16] <inetpro> good evening
[23:12] <Kilos> morning all
[23:13] <Kilos> hi bushtech nlsthzn MaNI paddatrapper and lurkers
[23:14] <Kilos> lovely weather here, if you sit inna car with windows close its nice and warm
[23:20] <Kilos> oops 1.15 there. fp then
[23:20] <Trixar_za> lol
[23:21] <Trixar_za> I take it you're somewhere like Australia at the moment
[23:38] <Kilos> yeah
[23:40] <Trixar_za> I figured since it's around 10am there (9:40 at the one end to about 11:40 at the other)


[01:10] <OvenWrks> Yeah from a distro view not worth while, from a user view, maybe more so if they are using a drop in kernel like Liquorix or other kernel. Distros hateb them (with good reason) but sometimes they scratch that hardware one has and allows still running an LTS with sw that only supports LTS versions.  :P


[00:40] <poolie> huwshimi, hooray for starting somewhere
[00:41] <huwshimi> poolie: Haha.
[00:43] <huwshimi> poolie: For too long I've been paralised by Launchpad not having the infrastructure to do things properly.
[00:44] <huwshimi> poolie: Making the infrastrucuture right has resulted in a trade-off for good UX in Launchpad
[00:44] <huwshimi> poolie: Now I don't care about the infrastructure, I just want the UX to be good
[00:46] <huwshimi> *flame war, GO!*
[00:53] <lifeless> infrastructure for its own sake is waste ;)
[00:57] <lifeless> huwshimi: I totally applaud reasoned cutting-of-gordian-knots, which I think you are doing here.
[00:58] <huwshimi> lifeless: And likewise, I'm all for proper infrastructure
[01:01] <huwshimi> I actually really can't stand doing things poorly. I've just gotten to the point that I'd rather do things poorly than not at all at the moment
[01:03] <lifeless> huwshimi: One thing launchpad has gotten stuck on in the past is defining 'right' - and ended up with bells and whistles we don't need.
[01:03] <lifeless> We also tend to focus too much on doing it all ourselves, IMO
[01:05]  * poolie cheers
[01:06] <poolie> i still like the idea of accumulating even just a set of screenshots of things we think were done right
[01:06] <poolie> by way of a cheap style guide
[01:06] <huwshimi> lifeless: Also as this is the web we should be architecting for change
[01:07] <lifeless> huwshimi: of course! you've seen my slides, right :)
[01:07] <wgrant> Launchpad has never done any sort of, well, design or architecture.
[01:07] <wgrant> Except when it designs things too much and badly.
[01:08] <lifeless> wgrant: you may find yourself stepping on toes if you don't qualify things a little :)
[01:08] <huwshimi> lifeless: Are they slides from Dallas?
[01:08] <huwshimi> or dublin
[01:09] <lifeless> huwshimi: prague and dallas
[01:09] <huwshimi> lifeless: Are they online somewhere, I remember your talk, but don't remember all the details
[01:09] <lifeless> let me get you a link
[01:09] <lifeless> there is one in the wiki under ArchitectureGuide, but also ..
[01:10] <lifeless> https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AR8DGdpwOJuiZGdwZGNmbjlfMTFoY2Nwcm1ocw&authkey=CMiPvu0F
[01:10] <lifeless> and
[01:10] <lifeless> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/present/edit?id=0AR8DGdpwOJuiZGdwZGNmbjlfNGZkNDZmZ2N6&authkey=CJWpj5EN&hl=en_US
[01:10] <lifeless> blargh, if either don't work let me know :)
[01:11] <huwshimi> lifeless: They, work. Just taking a look
[01:16] <poolie> huwshimi, the question came up the other day of: why do the importance labels look like "tags"  or labels
[01:17] <poolie> not sure if you were here for it but i'm curious if you know
[01:18] <huwshimi> poolie: There's no real science behind it. It's a very common design pattern for representing importance or status. Both importance and status were displayed like that in early mockups
[01:27] <poolie> it's ok with me
[01:52] <lifeless> wgrant: sob
[01:53] <lifeless> wgrant: 'TypeError: Could not serialize object set([u'OOPS-ABCDEF1234']) to JSON'.
[01:53] <lifeless> wgrant: is this just cruft - e.g. if I list() it, its good ?
[01:54] <lifeless> [list works]
[01:56] <wgrant> omg optus finally fixed it.
[01:56] <wgrant> lifeless: Yep, listing it should work fine.
[01:58] <StevenK> wgrant: It's only taken them until 1pm
[01:58] <wgrant> It's apparently been broken since 3am or so.
[01:59] <StevenK> So 10 hours of international routing being broken. Epic.
[01:59] <wgrant> Only for most of Europe.
[01:59] <wgrant> Which nobody cares about, I guess.
[02:09] <lifeless> and with that, oops-prune is dead.
[02:15] <lifeless> I need a hero^Wreviewer https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/bug-888375/+merge/81928.
[02:15] <huwshimi> wallyworld_: Not sure if you saw my last message yesterday about that javascript I was working on. I changed the io events and also fixed things up so they use classes instead of styles for show/hide. Do you want to give that one last look? https://code.launchpad.net/~huwshimi/launchpad/tag-cloud-removal-709009/+merge/81689
[02:16] <wallyworld_> huwshimi: looking now
[02:16] <huwshimi> wallyworld_: Thanks, no hurry
[02:16] <wallyworld_> lifeless: i'll look at your mp too :-)
[02:18] <lifeless> thanks
[02:19] <wallyworld_> huwshimi: looks good. were you going to write or update any yui tests?
[02:19] <huwshimi> wallyworld_: Erm, I didn't look
[02:20] <huwshimi> wallyworld_: I guess I'll need to have a look as I've moved this code around (I didn't write most of it, just fixed it up)
[02:20] <wallyworld_> huwshimi: understood. it's was naughty for it to be approved without any questions about tests :-)
[02:21] <huwshimi> wallyworld_: :)
[02:32] <wallyworld_> lifeless: do we want to make the search interval half closed as is common with date/time based searches?
[02:33] <lifeless> wallyworld_: I don't think we care
[02:33] <wallyworld_> or allow one of the start/end dates to be None, perhaps with a sensible default to disallow too broad an interval
[02:33] <lifeless> I think thats overthinking it
[02:34] <wgrant> SIGH
[02:34] <wgrant> It is broken again.
[02:34] <wallyworld_> i would care because if you want all oops for a particular day, you would normally do 1/1/2009 00:00 <= date < 2/1/2009 00:00 for example
[02:34] <lifeless> our replication strategy alone means the former wouldn't be sufficient and the latter is unneeded - oops will always care about exact end dates as they won't be pruning very new things
[02:35] <wallyworld_> ok
[02:36] <lifeless> wallyworld_: between is fully open
[02:36] <lifeless> wallyworld_: a BETWEEN x AND y
[02:36] <lifeless> ->
[02:36] <lifeless> a >= x AND a <= y
[02:36] <wallyworld_> hmm. i checked the online. the example given was fully closed
[02:36] <lifeless> wallyworld_: so naive use will Just Work anyhow (subject to replication lag etc etc if we ever get the API running on slaves)
[02:36] <wallyworld_> but it could be wrong
[02:36] <lifeless> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.4/static/functions-comparison.html
[02:36] <wallyworld_> should there be asserts / ValueError checks to catch None dates being passed in then? also context_params is not checked for None. do we care?
[02:37] <lifeless> 'addition to the comparison operators, the special BETWEEN construct is available:
[02:37] <lifeless> a BETWEEN x AND y
[02:37] <lifeless> is equivalent to
[02:37] <lifeless> a >= x AND a <= y
[02:37] <lifeless> '
[02:37] <lifeless> context_params is internal code only
[02:37] <lifeless> date ranges are the only thing clients are permitted to influence
[02:37] <lifeless> if they pass none in, it will do date between NULL AND <other>
[02:38] <wallyworld_> internal code can still be buggy :-) but fair enough
[02:38] <lifeless> which will match nothing (as null operator foo -> false)
[02:38] <lifeless> wallyworld_: it can be, which is why there are two ws tests that test the product and distribution glue is correct
[02:39] <wallyworld_> ok. thanks for clarifying :-)
[02:39] <lifeless> wallyworld_: I will teak the interface docstring
[02:39] <lifeless> wallyworld_: to avoid folk getting confused and thinking its like a slice vis-a-vis None
[02:39] <wallyworld_> cool. that would be good, since what's there is open to assumptions :-)
[02:54] <wallyworld_> lifeless: i can't see the replacement pruning functionality. there's apis to search for oopses but the pruning capability has been deleted ans there's no replacement in this mp?
[02:55] <lifeless> thats right
[02:55] <lifeless> its no longer a launchpad concern
[02:56] <lifeless> it should never have been part of the LP tree anyway :)
[02:56] <wallyworld_> sure. just checking that we weren't losing expected functionality
[02:56] <wallyworld_> s/expected/required
[02:56] <lifeless> oh we are
[02:56] <lifeless> just it won't be coming back to the LP tree
[02:56] <lifeless> separate project now
[02:57] <wallyworld_> and it's ready to go? or will we go without pruning for a bit?
[02:57] <lifeless> python-oops-datedir-repo
[02:57] <lifeless> its about an hours work
[02:57] <lifeless> :)
[02:57] <wallyworld_> ok
[02:57] <wallyworld_> famous last words :-)
[02:57] <lifeless> getting it deployed will take longer
[02:58] <wallyworld_> so we can afford not having oops pruning for X interval till it gets done i guess
[02:58] <lifeless> yes
[02:59] <lifeless> carob suffers before the appservers do
[02:59] <huwshimi> Does a + in one of our urls signify a static path (as opposed to dynamic data e.g. launchpad.net/dynamic/+static/)? Do all our URLs follow this pattern?
[02:59] <lifeless> and right now, for staging oopses, it has no pruning, because this APi isn't here, but they are using the amqp oops path
[02:59] <wallyworld_> thanks. i'm quite ignorant of our deployment requirements, so just wanted to check :-)
[02:59] <lifeless> huwshimi: the + indicates a view of an object
[03:00] <huwshimi> lifeless: Oh
[03:00] <lifeless> huwshimi: so /~person/+index is the actual url for /~person
[03:00] <lifeless> huwshimi: its a bit bong
[03:00] <lifeless> huwshimi: it has a few reasons behind it, but it gets in the way too
[03:01] <huwshimi> lifeless: So in a hypothetical world where we would map bugs.launchpad.net to a new URL would it be launchpad.net/launchpad/bugs or launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?
[03:01] <lifeless> huwshimi: there are plenty of options
[03:02] <lifeless> huwshimi: bugs.l.n has a distinct view from code.l.n, but you could do launchpad.net/+bugs-index and launchpad.net/+code-index
[03:02] <lifeless> for instance
[03:03] <huwshimi> lifeless: OK thanks, it's not a problem now, I was just trying to understand how the +s work
[03:03] <lifeless> de nada
[03:08] <wgrant> huwshimi: + is mostly used to disambiguate system- and user-controlled path segments. Since it's not permitted as the first character of a Launchpad name, we can support paths like /PROJECT/SERIES and /PROJECT/+bug/BUG without conflicts. It's also used in view names (eg. +bugs, +index), for similar reasons.
[03:09] <wgrant> So yes, basically what you said.
[03:09] <wgrant> There are some old paths where that doesn't hold true.
[03:09] <wgrant> eg. /bugs/BUG
[03:09] <wgrant> But it applies to most places.
[03:09] <huwshimi> wgrant: Great, good to know.
[03:11] <lifeless>  /bugs/BUG was deliberate
[03:11] <lifeless> we don't need to use it for new stuff, though it is a safe default
[03:15] <huwshimi> lifeless: I imagine if we did map our subdomains then bugs.launchpad.net/ would become launchpad.net/bugs/ so /bugs/BUG would make even more sense
[03:15] <lifeless> huwshimi: if we consolidate, I'd really love to see the namespace not deepend
[03:16] <lifeless> huwshimi: would launchpad.net/$project -> homepage; click on bugs there, be ok ? I think google code basically do this..
[03:16] <lifeless> huwshimi: or perhaps make 'bugs' subordinate to the project context :)
[03:19] <huwshimi> lifeless: Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean?
[03:19] <huwshimi> lifeless: I would imagine you would have something like launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs, launchpad.net/launchpad/+translations etc.
[03:20] <huwshimi> lifeless: I was saying launchpad.net/bugs/ would become a homepage for bugs like bugs.launchpad.net is now (if we decided we still wanted it)
[03:20] <huwshimi> lifeless: Is that what you were asking?
[03:20] <wgrant> That's how it was originally, actually.
[03:20] <wgrant> until 2006ish.
[03:21] <huwshimi> wgrant: April, 2006
[03:22] <wgrant> huwshimi: How'd you work that out?
[03:23] <huwshimi> wgrant: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/30
[03:23] <wgrant> A-ha.
[03:24] <nigelb> What happened to Applications on subdomains? :)
[03:25] <wgrant> nigelb: That's what we have now.
[03:25] <lifeless> huwshimi: I thought you meant e.g. bugs.l.n/launchpad/+bugs?field.. -> l.n/bugs/launchpad/+bugs?field..
[03:25] <wgrant> And have had for several years.
[03:25] <lifeless> huwshimi: which I think would be ugly
[03:25] <nigelb> wgrant: Ah. Launchpad applications. Right.
[03:25] <nigelb> I confused that with projects.
[03:25] <huwshimi> lifeless: Oh, yeah, not at all. Let's make the project the base and tack the app url on after that somehow
[03:26] <lifeless> huwshimi: I think that makes a lot of sense
[03:26] <huwshimi> lifeless: :D
[03:31] <huwshimi> wgrant: It's funny, there's a few things I think we got right a few years ago that I would like to revert to :)
[03:31] <wgrant> huwshimi: Yeah...
[03:32] <lifeless> wgrant: can you check I transcribed your fix for bug 884265 correctly ?
[03:32] <_mup_> Bug #884265: req_vars header values may cause crash in dboopsloader <python-oops-tools:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/884265 >
[03:32] <mwhudson> let's all go back to arch!
[03:32] <wgrant> mwhudson: A sound plan.
[03:32] <lifeless> wgrant: and if so, approve my MP ?
[03:33] <wgrant> lifeless: Your MP being rye's?
[03:34] <lifeless> no
[03:34] <lifeless> t'other one
[03:34] <wgrant> Ah.
[03:34] <wgrant> Which was created after I last looked.
[03:35] <wgrant> approvated
[04:09] <poolie> huwshimi, "a normal ux"
[04:09] <poolie> awesome
[04:09] <poolie> i think even google seems to be going away from having separate subdomains?
[04:10] <lifeless> can has review? https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-tools/bug-888866/+merge/81933
[04:10] <poolie> it's hard to tell
[04:10] <poolie> but the calendar is now google.com/calendary
[04:12] <nigelb> huwshimi: I like this going back to no subdomains thing ;)
[04:12] <poolie> me too
[04:12] <wgrant> It's also pretty damn easy to move away from subdomains.
[04:12] <poolie> i would like to see a mockup of what the navigation ought to look like
[04:12] <wgrant> We've had so many different navigation UIs over the years.
[04:12] <wgrant> None of them have worked :/
[04:12] <poolie> huwshimi, one interesting thing from gdd was their stuff about breadcrumby/back-stack navigation in android
[04:12] <wgrant> And now GitHub has basically reproduced LP 2.0
[04:12] <poolie> it does not map totally directly
[04:13] <poolie> but there are some ideas
[04:13] <poolie> is that good or bad?
[04:13] <poolie> specifically they have a plain 'back', crossing application or other activity boundaries
[04:13] <poolie> and also an 'up'
[04:13] <nigelb> wgrant: heh, yeah.
[04:13] <poolie> taking you towards the top level of that particular application
[04:14] <poolie> obviously for us its complex because there is browser back, and also going back towards the lp app root vs the pillar root
[04:14] <poolie> but, perhaps we want to emphasize the latter
[04:50] <lifeless> can has review ? https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-datedir-repo/bug-888866/+merge/81937
[04:51] <lifeless> well, EOD for me.
[04:52] <lifeless> EOW even
[05:20] <poolie> cheerio lifeless
[05:20] <poolie> wgrant, ok, the package style is a bit more modern now
[05:23] <StevenK> Does it make use of dh 7 yet?
[05:41] <wgrant> hardy doesn't have dh7, but cat should if you want it.
[05:43] <StevenK> Oh, drat. Hardy
[06:25] <micahg> hardy-backports has dh7 :)
[06:33] <poolie> it doesn't
[06:33] <poolie> that doesn't seem high on the list of issues
[06:35] <poolie> should i add this to just launchpad-dependencies, or something more specific?
[06:35] <poolie> which one is used to run tests i wonder
[06:37] <poolie> developer dependencies apparently
[06:38] <huwshimi> Have a good weekend all!
[06:38] <poolie> you too
[06:42] <wgrant> poolie: launchpad-developer-dependencies, probably.
[06:43] <poolie> yep, done and pushed
[06:50] <poolie> do i _have_ to update the ec2 image for new dependencies?
[06:51] <wgrant> Yes.
[06:51] <poolie> can't it just install them when it boots?
[06:51] <wgrant> It doesn't apt-get upgrade
[06:51] <StevenK> No
[06:51] <poolie> could it?
[07:03] <poolie> so, to me it really does look like it does an apt-get upgrade
[07:03] <poolie> but that may be a decoy
[07:46] <StevenK> poolie: The only case that does is the AMI upgrade path
[07:47] <poolie> yeah, but istm i can, and might as well, just do it when a real test is booting
[07:47] <StevenK> I don't like that idea.
[07:47] <StevenK> Some tests on ec2 are fragile enough without adding more changes.
[07:48] <poolie> mm
[07:48] <poolie> but this is fairly determinisitic
[07:48] <poolie> and brings the tests closer to what people will experience elsewhere
[07:49] <StevenK> We have been on rev 522 for over one month
[07:50] <StevenK> And given it takes about an hour to make a new AMI, I don't think the cost is high at all.
[07:50] <poolie> !!
[07:51] <poolie> i think an hour of avoidable works' pretty high
[07:51] <StevenK> It isn't an hour of work. It's one command and wait an hour
[07:51] <StevenK> Much like our test suite
[07:51] <poolie> that's worth cutting down too
[07:51] <poolie> an hour of latency is also worth cutting out
[07:52] <StevenK> I would seriously prefer you just make a new AMI and bring up changing it on the mailing list.
[07:52] <poolie> i am running my test in this now
[07:52] <poolie> which seems equivalent
[07:53] <StevenK> And I submit that changing it and then announcing it is as much akin to what you almost accussed me of with +personal.
[07:53] <poolie> oh
[07:53] <poolie> i'm just going to put up an mp
[07:53] <poolie> i'm not going to just change the ami
[07:54] <poolie> in fact i'm pretty sure i am not trusted to change the ami, which is another reason i looked at just updating the single machine
[07:54] <poolie> and i did ask about it here
[07:55] <StevenK> poolie: Have a look at lib/devscripts/ec2test/account.py, line 25 on.
[07:56] <poolie> as i suspected, it's out of date :)
[07:56] <poolie> wrt henninge
[07:56] <StevenK> We don't remove people
[07:57] <StevenK> And I suspect adding your ID there would not cause much of an issue
[07:57] <poolie> yeah i could
[07:57] <StevenK> We can probably remove henning, salgado, jml
[08:00] <poolie> i think current staff who are no longer on the lp team is a bit different
[08:00] <poolie> but, maybe still least privilege
[08:44] <jml> actually, that reminds me, I need to delete my LP image
[08:44] <jml> it's costing me US$0.53 and £2 each month in Amazon & then bank fees.
[08:55] <StevenK> 2GBP is a bit steep
[09:14] <mrevell> Hello
[09:18] <danhg> Morning Everyone
[09:20] <adeuring> good morning
[11:17] <jam1> I thought the new fast-oops was deployed. I got an OOPS trying to list my branches in a project page, but the oops (with a hash) hasn't shown up after about 10 min
[11:17] <jam> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-55ae33da0714197906011068d73e95f3 if people care
[11:17] <rvba> jam: fast-oops is not yet deployed in production.
[11:19] <jam> ah, I thought robert said that it will show up once we switch to hash-based ids
[11:19] <jam> anyway, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/889042
[11:19] <_mup_> Bug #889042: OOPS while viewing branch listing for ~user/project <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/889042 >
[11:20] <jam> browsing to a per-user branch listing tracebacks
[11:22] <rvba> jam, hum, that's related to the new branch menu recently introduced, I think it's worth disabling the flag until the problem that you just had is solved… I'll take care of that…
[11:25] <jam> rvba: thanks. code.lpn/~jameinel works but code.lpn/~jameinel/project doesn't
[11:33]  * nigelb wonders what mrevell was testing
[11:36] <mrevell> nigelb, hmm?
[11:36] <mrevell> nigelb, Oh, the mailing list archive seems to be delayed by a couple of days
[11:36] <nigelb> ah, nice :)
[11:37] <nigelb> I did ask wgrant about it some days ago.
[11:37] <nigelb> err weeks
[11:37] <nigelb> Back then it was hours, not days.
[11:46] <rvba> jam: the flag has been removed so this should be back to normal, thanks for reporting this.
[11:47] <jam> rvba: confirmed, my ~user/project page loads now
[12:49] <deryck> Morning, all.
[12:53] <rick_h> morning
[14:26] <rvba> Hi adeuring, would you have time to have a look at this MP? https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/launchpad/bug-889042/+merge/81988
[14:26] <adeuring> rvba: sure
[14:27] <flacoste> mrevell, sinzui, gnuoy, allenap: i realy doubt that the delays in mail being sent out is related to the delays in mail archiving
[14:27] <rvba> adeuring: thank you. The diff should be available shortly…
[14:27] <flacoste> mailman is using separate queue runner for all these aspects
[14:28] <sinzui> flacoste, as wgrant remarked, there is a lot of list traffic in ubuntu-x-swat maybe
[14:28] <flacoste> that's a more likely explanation
[14:29] <flacoste> in the past we had issues with the xmlrpc calls timing out, but that was fixed i think
[14:29] <flacoste> is mailman the bottleneck or our stmp server?
[14:29] <flacoste> also, mrevell tests seem to have been near instantaneous
[14:29] <gnuoy> flacoste there is no backlog in exim
[14:29] <flacoste> is there a backlog in mailman?
[14:30] <mrevell> Daviey, Is there still a backlog for the openstack list?
[14:30] <mrevell> Daviey, I mean delay
[14:33] <deryck> adeuring, https://dev.launchpad.net/QA/ExploratoryTesting/CustomBugListings
[14:33] <deryck> abentley, https://dev.launchpad.net/QA/ExploratoryTesting/CustomBugListings
[14:35] <Daviey> mrevell: The archive doesn't seem to be showing recent mail, https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/
[14:35] <Daviey> regarding actual mail, i'm not sure.
[14:42] <sinzui> Why are there always 3 new bugs? I have checked for private new bugs that we might be be subscribed too, but there are none in production
[14:42] <flacoste> Daviey: right, mailing list archives isn't expected to work, a work around is to visit mail-archives.org
[14:42] <flacoste> all your lists are archived there in real-time
[14:46] <Daviey> flacoste: for the nosey, why is that?
[14:47] <flacoste> actually, it's mail-archive.com
[14:47] <sinzui> excellent, staging is broken in the same way.
[14:48] <flacoste> Daviey: because originally we didn't want to host archives ourself, because there is no good software for it
[14:48] <Daviey> ah
[14:48] <flacoste> down the line we decided to do a dirt-cheap solution
[14:48] <flacoste> but that's what we have now
[14:48] <flacoste> dirt-cheap
[14:48] <flacoste> that doesn't work most of the time
[14:48] <deryck> Seems odd to me we have the same yuixhr failure in both devel and db-devel.
[14:49]  * deryck is investigating build failures
[14:49] <Daviey> flacoste: thanks
[15:05] <adeuring> rvba: r=me
[15:06] <rvba> thank you adeuring.
[15:16] <gnuoy> flacoste, there doesn't seem to be a  backlog in mailman
[15:17] <flacoste> gnuoy: ok, so we think the delay problem is solved?
[15:17] <gnuoy> flacoste, no, sorry, I was just answering your question from an hour ago
[15:18] <flacoste> well, if we don't have a queue, there shouldn't be delays :-)
[15:18] <gnuoy> unless the thing putting them on the queue it the problem
[15:18] <gnuoy> s/it/is/
[15:55] <deryck> abentley, lines are up again if you need to land stuff.
[15:55] <abentley> deryck: Cool, thanks.
[16:00] <deryck> matsubara, we using mumble for the call?  or skype?
[16:00] <matsubara> deryck, skype so danhg can join us
[16:01] <deryck> ok
[16:02] <abentley> matsubara: online now, as aaron_bentley
[16:03] <deryck> matsubara, I'm ready to go too.
[16:03] <deryck> adeuring, you want in this call?
[16:03] <matsubara> abentley, thanks. skype is taking forever to find your user id
[16:04] <adeuring> deryck: sure. skype?
[16:04] <deryck> adeuring, yup.  and tell matsubara your skype id if he doesn't have it.
[16:04] <matsubara> deryck, can you host? I suppose you have aaron and abel already in your list?
[16:04] <deryck> matsubara, sure.
[16:04] <matsubara> do you see me online?
[16:05] <adeuring> matsubara: adeuring on skype. give me two minutes to śtart a machine where skype is installed
[16:14] <flacoste> deryck: with spurious test failures, don't cross fingers, disable tests :-)
[16:38] <allenap> gmb: Do you what's happening/happened with bug relationships?
[16:39] <gmb> allenap: Not since I handed in the draft of the LEP. mrevell and flacoste will likely know where it's at.
[16:40] <flacoste> allenap: your squad is likely to work on it
[16:40] <flacoste> allenap: once gary squad is done with test suite parallelizatin
[16:40] <allenap> flacoste: So something for 2012 then. Ta.
[16:40] <flacoste> allenap: it's not clear what the exact scope will be yet
[16:40] <flacoste> allenap: yep
[16:40] <flacoste> early 2012 is what is on our agenda
[16:45] <deryck> flacoste, sorry was otp.  I wasn't confident it was spurious enough to disable.  if it happens again, I will.
[17:15] <allenap> Does anyone know why I can't find more than 1207 bugs at https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/ares (via advanced search), even though I know that there are 1515 bugs, and launchpadlib confirms it? I assume it's something to do with bugs/bugtasks, yet they are all newly created tasks from an import.
[17:16] <deryck> allenap, private bugs?
[17:16] <allenap> deryck: There's one private bug. Checking anonymously via launchpadlib yield 1514 bug tasks.
[17:17] <deryck> hmm, weird.  I remember something like that with a bug import for me.  either private bugs or closed bugs.
[17:17] <allenap> deryck: I sense that I've figured this one out before, but I cannot quite access the memory.
[17:17] <deryck> heh, yeah
[17:18] <deryck> allenap, do you know what the user sees?
[17:19] <deryck> allenap, also, expired maybe?
[17:19]  * deryck is guessing :)
[17:19] <allenap> deryck: The user and I see the same things: just 1207 bugs (well, he sees 1206). Ah, I have an inking...
[17:20] <allenap> deryck: I've figured it out! There are 308 tasks with Unknown status, and that's not given as an option in the advanced search page.
[17:20] <deryck> allenap, ah ha! :)
[17:21] <allenap> deryck: Thanks for prodding in the right direction :)
[17:21] <deryck> allenap, np!
[18:06] <lifeless> allenap: evening
[18:11] <rvba> Hi lifeless!
[18:11] <lifeless> hi rvba
[18:11] <lifeless> sad news about the oopses!
[18:12] <rvba> yeah, but that's fixed, the branch is in ec2.
[18:22] <lifeless> cool
[18:37] <sinzui> lifeless,  do you know if the process that manages BugSummary ever pruges/rebuilds the stats? I am trying to understand why /launchpad always has three new bugs that the db says is not true
[18:39]  * rvba EODs
[18:42] <rvba> lifeless: I've got a perf related question on this MP, maybe you could have a look next week… https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/launchpad/builders-timeout-bug-887078-eager-load/+merge/82008
[18:42]  * rvba really EODs now.
[18:58] <lifeless> sinzui: it doesn't no. There is obviously a bug.
[18:58] <sinzui> yes. I think one something odd gets into the data, it is stuck
[18:59] <sinzui> lifeless, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/735551/ show one of the bugs has a patch. I have been looking for such a bug in Lp. They are pretty rare.
[19:00] <lifeless> sinzui: could you file a bug ?
[19:00] <lifeless> I meant to last time I noticed, but I got distracted
[19:00] <sinzui> lifeless, I will
[19:23]  * micahg hugs sinzui for cleaning up null bug tasks
[19:24] <sinzui> thank you.
[21:16] <deryck> rick_h, ping.  you around?
[21:36] <deryck> abentley, would you like to review my integration branch, which gets toggling of fields working?
[21:36] <abentley> deryck: sure.
[21:37] <deryck> abentley, thanks!  https://code.launchpad.net/~deryck/launchpad/listing-config-widget-integration/+merge/82024
[21:37] <deryck> abentley, I also did a little drive by to clean up some of that CSS/design stuff we've been discussing.
[21:37] <abentley> deryck: ah, okay.
[21:38] <deryck> abentley, when we're nearly done, I'll do a pass to consolidate/polish CSS rules, and perhaps simplify.  But that should be closer to the mockup, and let everyone see we can get it right.
[21:41] <abentley> deryck: It looks like you're specifying field visibility rather than using the values from LP.cache.  Is that right?
[21:42] <deryck> abentley, yes, I'm getting the value from when the form overlay is submitted.
[21:43] <abentley> deryck: I mean BugListingConfigUtil.field_visibility_defaults
[21:43] <deryck> abentley, ah, yes.  I hard coded them in the widget.  so it echos the browser code.
[21:44] <abentley> deryck: What is the purpose of echoing the browser code instead of using the values generated by the browser code?
[21:46] <deryck> abentley, to me it seemed better because the widget can work in isolation of the cache.  or rather, I did build it separate from the cache....
[21:47] <deryck> abentley, so there's no harm in pulling from cache in a later pass and not leaning on the hard coded defaults.
[21:49] <abentley> deryck: I think this is a DRY violation.  If we change only one, then the bug listings (client-side or server-side) and the widget will disagree about which fields are displayed.
[21:50] <deryck> abentley, I agree.  Does it matter for the sake of this branch, though?  Can I change that when I fix the persistence issue?
[21:50] <abentley> deryck: And consider that the browser code will probably start setting these values according to query variables, per the LEP's URL requirements.
[21:50] <deryck> right
[21:52] <deryck> abentley, I'm completely agreed with you.  Just wondering if fixing is a subsequent branch is ok.
[21:52] <abentley> deryck: I guess you could, but I don't understand why you'd want to.  Violating DRY takes more effort then following it.
[21:53] <deryck> abentley, because, it's a larger change, and I want to think about how best to do it.  Assuming you don't have other issues, this could land now, and at least get the interaction live for people to see.
[21:54] <abentley> deryck: It's not just a one-line variable assignment?
[21:55] <deryck> abentley, ah, you mean just in the page hook up?  I was thinking refactoring so the hard coded ones weren't there at all.  fixing tests, etc.
[21:56] <abentley> deryck: Oh, I see.
[21:57] <abentley> deryck: Well, if the tests are holding it back, I guess that's okay then.  I just didn't understand your reluctance.
[21:58] <deryck> abentley, ok, thanks.  I would like to fix it altogether, so the widget can't work without getting data from the cache.
[21:58] <abentley> Right.  And then you could have a factory function for testing.
[21:58] <deryck> it's pedantic I guess, but it makes more sense to me if the test describes what you should do with the widget.
[21:58] <deryck> abentley, right
[21:59] <deryck> I meant my reluctance is pedantic, not your suggestion, abentley :)
[22:03] <abentley> deryck: r=me.
[22:04] <deryck> abentley, thanks!
[22:04] <rick_h> deryck: pong, been afk most of the day
[22:05] <abentley> deryck: We should also look at the module naming.  I see "lp.bugs.buglisting" and "lp.buglisting_utils" and they don't match.  And I'm not sure whether ListingNavigator shouldn't also be a utility.
[22:07] <deryck> abentley, yeah, I agree.  I'm not crazy about my namings of this and configutils.BaseConfigUtil.
[22:07] <abentley> I'm not entirely sure what the style is supposed to be.  I've seen a lot of different things.
[22:18] <deryck> we're inconsistent indeed.  I think everything should just live under lp, a la Y.lp.module.
[22:18] <deryck> and probably a listings module and a utilities modules would let us divide these pieces up nicely.
[22:19] <deryck> abentley, can you mark the mp approved too please?
[22:46] <deryck> Later on, everyone.  Have a nice weekend.


 Hey guys! Now that 20.04.1 is out, shouldn't there be a GUI prompt to upgrade in Kubuntu 18.04?
[02:39] <oerheks> linuxophil, in a few days, iirc, not the same day as point release
[05:14] <kubuntu-laptop> s
[05:24] <qwertypoiyoity> .
 a
[06:49] <nenecchi> Hi! When I decrease the brightness of the display using the function keys on my laptop, the display's turn off after passing the minimum level. Is this intended behavior? Is there a way to configure it? Thanks
 Any fix for laptop not responding after falling asleep?
 Had to force close each time
[08:37] <overdrive1> hello all
[08:38] <overdrive1> can some one help me
[08:39] <overdrive1> i was getting very high memory usage in windows 10 so i decided to install ubuntu onto my desktop and get rid of windows i have done this now but before i did this i had to check if citrix was compatbatile and it said it was
[08:39] <overdrive1> guys
[08:39] <overdrive1> i really need your help i use this PC for work and for the life of me i cannot install citrix
[08:40] <overdrive1> i cant even find the exe file
[08:40] <overdrive1> can someone help :(
[08:51] <overdrive1> if no one helps me i will get laughed out
[08:51] <overdrive1> at
[08:52] <overdrive1> by my work collegues
[08:52] <overdrive1> thats no fib
[08:54] <eeos> hi everybody! Tried again to upgrade to 20.04.1 but it still does not work .... what is happening?
[08:54] <overdrive1> hello eeos everyone is sleeping
[08:54] <overdrive1> iam in need of critical help
 What's citrix?
[08:57] <overdrive1> its something that lets me connect remotly to my desktop at work
[08:57] <eeos> overdrive1: what is citrix?
[08:57] <overdrive1> so i can work
[08:59] <eeos> overdrive1: https://www.citrix.com/downloads/citrix-receiver/linux/
 Can't you just use another app like vnc? Or are you forced to use citrix?
[09:01] <overdrive1> forced to use citrix is this is what my company tells me to use
 @eeos, Try this link
[09:01] <overdrive1> thats the one eeos i have downloaded it
 The one eeos sent you
[09:02] <overdrive1> yes i have downloaded it
[09:02] <overdrive1> and i have gone in terminal
[09:02] <overdrive1> and done the spt install icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb
 Spt?
[09:02] <overdrive1> it just keeps saying unable to locate package
 Apt?
[09:02] <overdrive1> sorry apt
 You can also double click on the .deb file
 And install it if you are on Ubuntu..
[09:03] <overdrive1> i tried that
 That's pretty easy
[09:03] <overdrive1> failed to install file not supooted
[09:03] <overdrive1> failed to install file not supported
 Also if you want to do that from terminal you have to launch the command inside the folder where the package is
[09:04] <overdrive1> it saying am at root@jason-7200-556A:/home/Jason
 Is that the folder where the  … .deb is located?
[09:06] <overdrive1> no :)
 Go there and retry the apt install
[09:06] <overdrive1> just trying now
[09:06] <overdrive1> one moment please
[09:07] <overdrive1> E: Unable to locate package icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb
 Try dpkg -i name of the pacjage
 Package
[09:08] <overdrive1> wow
[09:09] <overdrive1> its done something
 It's installing the deb file >:)
[09:09] <overdrive1> root@jason-7200-5565A:/tmp/mozilla_jason0# dpkg -i icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb Selecting previously unselected package icaclient. (Reading database ... 150972 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to unpack icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb ... Unpacking icaclient (<IP_ADDRESS>) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of icaclient:  icaclient depends on libwebkit-1.0-2 | libwebkitgtk-1.0-0; however:   Package libwebkit-1.0-2
 !paste
[09:11] <overdrive1> i need libwebkit
 use pasteubuntu
 to paste the output
[09:12] <overdrive1> pasteubuntu
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/
[09:14] <overdrive1> 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17  	  root@jason-7200-5565A:/tmp/mozilla_jason0# dpkg -i icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb Selecting previously unselected package icaclient. (Reading database ... 150972 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to unpack icaclient_<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb ... Unpacking icaclient (<IP_ADDRESS>) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of icaclient:  icaclient depends on libwebkit-1.0-2 | l
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/ go on this website and paste the output there..
[09:17] <overdrive1> i have
[09:17] <overdrive1> :D
 You have to click on the button paste
 And send the link here..
[09:17] <overdrive1> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/929PwqtFkY/
 try to install these two: … Package libwebkit-1.0-2  … Package libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
 try sudo apt install name of package
[09:20] <overdrive1> it says unable to locate package
[09:21] <overdrive1> package libwebkit has no installation candidate
[09:22] <overdrive1> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Yp84v5T7yV/
[09:23] <user|50202> Hi I am a new user for kubuntu
[09:24] <user|50202> I want to know can i use kubuntu distro through vmware
 I found on the website that the app was replaced by another newer version of the citrix app
 maybe give a try on that?
[09:29] <overdrive1> i will try
[09:29] <overdrive1> one moment please
 The version you want to download is from 2018
 Newer version looks like it's called citrix app
[09:30] <overdrive1> yes i need the workspace app
[09:30] <overdrive1> thank you
[09:30] <overdrive1> let me try
 Np
 Let me know
[09:34] <overdrive1> will do
[09:34] <overdrive1> no errors
[09:34] <overdrive1> its on my apps
[09:34] <overdrive1> let me try loginto work
[09:36] <overdrive1> beautifulll
[09:36] <overdrive1> thank youuu
[09:36] <overdrive1> tahnk yoiuuuu
[09:36] <overdrive1> soo much
[09:37] <overdrive1> :D
[09:37] <overdrive1> your the best
[09:37] <overdrive1> i owe you one @ircsomebot
[09:50] <overdrive1> thanks ill be back soon
[09:51] <overdrive1> download vmware and then just install on there
[09:52] <overdrive1> you can always just install alongside windows to test it i believe
[09:52] <overdrive1> put it on a mem stick run it from there
 Hey np
 You don't need a wm now right? You can just try it using your working pc
[11:31] <BluesKaj> 'morning folks
[11:32] <eeos> BluesKaj: morning!
[11:32] <BluesKaj> 'morning eeos
[15:41] <Guest7996> hi to all
[15:42] <Guest7996> How to Enable Screen zoom in/out
 System Settings -> Global Shortcuts -> kwin
 Filter for zoom