[01:15] <cmaloney> greets
[01:15] <Zimdale> groots
[01:15] <hpucks> ello
[01:28] <mrgoodcat> govna
[01:28] <mrgoodcat> sry i didn't make chc tonight
[01:31] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: THat's OK. WE only put it on your permanent record
[01:32] <mrgoodcat> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[01:56] <mrgoodcat> who was it that came last week?
[01:56] <cmaloney> I came
[01:56] <cmaloney> Rick and Matt were here
[01:56] <cmaloney> and now it's just me
[02:04] <mrgoodcat> i was wondering who the guy sitting next to me was
[02:04] <mrgoodcat> github posted a postmortem of the downtime we were experiencing and I thought he might be interested
[02:04] <Zimdale> Is that the downtime the other night?
[02:05] <Zimdale> Where it was down for a good 2-4 hours
[02:05] <mrgoodcat> 2 hours and 6 minutes
[02:06] <mrgoodcat> last wednesday night
[02:06] <Zimdale> What caused it becuase it fucked up my night
[02:06] <mrgoodcat> https://github.com/blog/2106-january-28th-incident-report
[02:06] <mrgoodcat> power failure
[02:06] <Zimdale> ah
[02:06] <mrgoodcat> and some unexptected cascading failures due to a firmware bug in a certain model of server
[02:07] <mrgoodcat> then their services weren't coming back up because the startup scripts depended on redis being up
[02:07] <mrgoodcat> but the scripts were supposed to be starting redis
[02:07] <Zimdale> ha
[02:07] <cmaloney> Ah, the ol' single point of failure bug
[02:07] <Zimdale> It's a hard bug to prevent
[02:08] <mrgoodcat> it's interesting how so many things went wrong though
[02:08] <Zimdale> That's usually how it works
[02:08] <Zimdale> everything has to go wrong at once to bring down the world, otherwise nobody notices it
[02:10] <mrgoodcat> power failure, some servers did not recognize their drives after a power cycle, the startup scripts depended on the things they were starting, the frontend servers didn't properly recognize that the backend services were down, and the team chat services were down because they were on the same servers as the github backend (which was difficult to troubleshoot in a coordinated manner without chat)
[02:10] <mrgoodcat> thats a LOT of things all at once
[02:14] <Zimdale> bad day for the github employees
[02:15] <mrgoodcat> yea
[02:15] <mrgoodcat> i've seen a few failures but nothing on that scale
[02:15] <mrgoodcat> obviously by scale i don't mean number of users
[02:15] <mrgoodcat> well that too
[02:15] <mrgoodcat> but
[02:16] <mrgoodcat> i have yet to have that hellish failure where services aren't coming back up and people are trying to use them and hardware is failing and and and and and
[02:16] <Zimdale> Least it's not as bad as when us-east went down on aws, that was a blast
[02:18] <mrgoodcat> heh
[02:18] <mrgoodcat> nobody ever got fired for going with -ibm- amazon
[02:18] <Zimdale> ibm amazon?
[02:18] <mrgoodcat> was meant to be a strikethrough
[02:19] <mrgoodcat> nobody has ever gotten fired for going with ibm
[02:19] <mrgoodcat> you've never heard anybody say that?
[02:19] <Zimdale> nope
[02:19] <Zimdale> I feel like most should get fired for going with IBM >.>
[02:19] <mrgoodcat> heh
[02:19] <mrgoodcat> well not at the time that saying became popular
[02:20] <Zimdale> I probably didn't exist when that saying was popular
[02:20] <Zimdale> like in the 80s?
[02:20] <mrgoodcat> one of my dad's friends is a regional sales manager for cisco and he was the first person to let me in on that saying
[02:20] <mrgoodcat> its ok i didn't exist either
[02:20] <mrgoodcat> its a story for old men
[02:20] <mrgoodcat> i bet cmaloney has heard it
[02:20] <mrgoodcat> no offense meant to cmaloney of course
[02:21] <mrgoodcat> IBM is also the originating force behind the FUD acronym
[02:21] <Zimdale> FUD?
[02:21] <mrgoodcat> gene amdahl coined the phrase after leaving ibm
[02:21] <mrgoodcat> fear uncertainty and doubt
[02:22] <mrgoodcat> as in "microsoft is spreading FUD about linux and open source projects in order to promote its own interests"
[02:22] <Zimdale> ah
[02:23] <cmaloney> I haven't heard them put Amazon in there
[02:23] <cmaloney> but I've heard the IBM thing
[02:23] <mrgoodcat> "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."  I'm not that old
[02:34] <cmaloney> I was born in the 1970s
[02:34] <cmaloney> same year that Rush formed.
[02:34] <cmaloney> Er, no... scratch that
[02:34] <cmaloney> They formed in 1968
[02:35] <cmaloney> But the official first group was the year I was born
[02:35] <cmaloney> Rutsey, Lifeson, and Lee
[02:36] <Zimdale> I was born when the simpsons started
[02:36] <jrwren> babies!!!
[02:36] <jrwren> 'cept cmaloney
[02:36] <cmaloney> So was my sister-in-law
[02:36] <jrwren> cmaloney is a proper age
[02:36] <cmaloney> That's right
[02:36] <cmaloney> proper-like
[02:37] <cmaloney> Fetch me my proper slippers and my proper glass of port
[02:40] <jrwren> oooooh! I do like port.
[02:40] <cmaloney> You may have port as well
[02:40] <cmaloney> proper-like
[02:40] <jrwren> that is the wierd thing about getting old... is all these young adults running around :p
[02:41] <cmaloney> heh
[02:41] <Zimdale> Depends on the port and if it's aerated
[02:41] <cmaloney> Dow's Ruby Red Porto
[02:41] <cmaloney> accept no inferior substitutes
[02:41] <Zimdale> I definitely lean towards cabernet over port
[02:41] <cmaloney> I prefer Merlots and Shiraz
[02:42] <cmaloney> but Cabernet is OK
[02:42] <jrwren> couldn't you make port with cab?
[02:43] <Zimdale> No idea
[02:43] <Zimdale> don't know THAT much about wine, must come with age
[02:43] <Zimdale> ;)
[02:43] <_stink_> zing!
[02:56] <jrwren> port is wine fortified with brandy
[02:57] <mrgoodcat> and yes you can make port with cab
[02:57] <mrgoodcat> shiraz is best wine
[02:58] <Zimdale> I like catawba grape wine but they are hard to find =(
[13:40] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:40] <rick_h__> party
[13:41] <cmaloney> How are things on the not-here part of the world?
[13:41] <rick_h__> good, chilly here in Rome
[13:41] <cmaloney> What's the temps?
[13:41] <cmaloney> Current conditions at Detroit City Airport, MI (KDET)
[13:41] <cmaloney> Last updated Feb 04, 2016 - 07:53 AM EST / 2016.02.04 1253 UTC
[13:41] <rick_h__> but had a nice photo tour this morning and resting my tired feets
[13:41] <cmaloney>    Temperature: 32.0 F (0.0 C)
[13:41] <cmaloney>    Relative Humidity: 72%
[13:41] <cmaloney>    Wind: from the W (270 degrees) at 5 MPH (4 KT)
[13:41] <cmaloney>    Sky conditions: overcast
[13:41] <cmaloney>    Precipitation last hour: A trace
[13:41] <cmaloney> Awesome
[13:42] <cmaloney> looking forward to seeing hte results. :)
[13:42] <rick_h__> so it's 50ish with 20-30mph winds
[13:42] <rick_h__> but only brought a rain coat because don't need muh of a coat above 40 imo
[13:42] <cmaloney> That's not too bad
[13:42] <cmaloney> Ah, that's no fun
[13:42] <rick_h__> but the wind made it chilly at times where I wish I'd had a hat
[13:42] <rick_h__> bald heads != insulation :)_
[13:42] <cmaloney> Heh
[13:43] <cmaloney> I'm starting to realize that.
[17:20] <cmaloney> I really wish the Ubuntu tablet wasn't named Aquarius
[17:20] <cmaloney> for probably the dumbest reason imaginable
[17:21] <cmaloney> Mattel had an ill-fated computer called the Aquarius
[17:21] <cmaloney> it was under-powered, incompatible with their console, and was widely considered a flop
[17:21] <cmaloney> again, dumb reason, but that's where my head went
[17:23] <hpucks> huh.  that's interesting.  are they actually producing hardware or just a tablet build?
[17:23] <hpucks> This is relevant to my interests since I run Ubuntu on a Surface Pro 3.
[17:23] <cmaloney> I think they're contracting it out but don't have the details
[17:23] <hpucks> ah
[17:25] <cmaloney> Taht said I'd be quite surprised if Canonical had enough $$ to fund building a tablet / production from scratch
[17:28] <jrwren> afaik that is all BQ
[17:29] <greg-g> BQ?
[17:29] <cmaloney> BBQ
[17:29] <greg-g> Burger Queen?
[17:30] <cmaloney> It's part of the OMGWTFBBQ alliance
[17:30] <jrwren> greg-g: http://www.bq.com/es/ubuntu.html
[17:30] <greg-g> gotcha
[17:31] <cmaloney> "We are BQ"
[17:31] <cmaloney> Well, that clears things up
[17:31] <cmaloney> http://www.bq.com/uk/corporate-info
[17:31] <cmaloney> Can't tell if official site or Onion
[17:32] <jrwren> lol
[17:32] <cmaloney> Seriously, someone got the "show some attitude" knob and ratcheted it to absurdity
[17:33] <jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundo_Reader
[17:34] <jrwren> so in the US, i equate them to those $30 cody CVS tablets
[17:35] <cmaloney> That's... not a ringing endorsement. :)
[17:35] <jrwren> exactly
[17:36] <cmaloney> I'll just be happy if I see an Ubuntu device in my lifetime that isn't in the hands of a Canonical employee
[17:37] <jrwren> cmaloney: me too
[17:38] <cmaloney> Like seeing an Apple Lisa in the wild with Twiggy Drives
[17:38] <cmaloney> boy can dream
[17:41] <jrwren> i remember when a buddy found a room full of lisa's in a closet at OU. It was 2002 or 2003
[17:42] <cmaloney> Daaaaamn
[17:42] <jrwren> yup
[17:42] <jrwren> most of them booted.
[17:42] <cmaloney> I don't think I could have stopped hyperventilating
[17:42] <jrwren> he was VERY excited.
[17:43] <jrwren> i said, "Waht is a lisa?"
[17:43] <jrwren> I had no idea.
[17:43] <jrwren> once I understood what they were, I was in awe
[17:43] <cmaloney> Yeah, its one of the holy grails of computing
[17:43] <cmaloney> A Macintosh without Steve Jobs
[17:44] <jrwren> apple was so different then. ipod has just come out, there was no music store. The story was to rip it yourself.
[17:44] <jrwren> so the apple fables weren't popular back then.
[17:45] <jrwren> no one knew ipod was going to be huge, even a year after its launch
[17:45] <cmaloney> I like to think I knew
[17:45] <cmaloney> but I was softer on Apple back then
[17:45] <jrwren> i hated apple back then.
[17:46] <jrwren> they had no good products IMO
[17:46] <jrwren> OSX was still pretty bad. they still shipped OS9
[17:46] <cmaloney> But once Apple started with the whole "Thermonuclear war" which hearkened back to the "look and feel" lawsuits I knew it was time to move on
[17:46] <jrwren> wait, what?
[17:46] <greg-g> <    jrwren> so in the US, i equate them to those $30 cody CVS tablets
[17:47] <greg-g> but their photos are soooo sexy/porn like!
[17:47] <cmaloney> jrwren: The whole "we'll kill android with patents"
[17:47] <jrwren> greg-g: they are more beautiful devices and maybe that is too harsh, but they don't make any higher end models :(
[17:47] <greg-g> seriously, some hardware photos, especially phones, look way too much like they were porn inspired
[17:48] <jrwren> cmaloney: i didn't know that was ever a thing, nor did I knwo there was ever a patent lawsuit between android and apple
[17:48] <cmaloney> greg-g: They are
[17:48] <greg-g> "be sure to get the low angle crotch, I mean usb port shot!"
[19:00] <cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, Apple flipped my "you are evil" bit with that.
[19:01] <cmaloney> I kind of forgave the look and feel lawsuits of old but that just put them into the "never consider for personal stuff" list.
[19:01] <jrwren> cmaloney: so how do you feel about ubuntu's aggressive control of its trademark? :]
[19:02] <cmaloney> Trademarks are one thing
[19:02] <cmaloney> I think the whole "use it or lose it" thing is ridiculous
[19:02] <cmaloney> So I get why they're doing it
[19:03] <cmaloney> Honestly I think the whole thing needs some reform
[19:03]  * greg-g looks in, see's a troll, backs away
[19:03] <cmaloney> greg-g: Join the party. :)
[19:03] <greg-g> :) :)
[19:03] <cmaloney> But yeah, trademark law is insane
[19:04] <cmaloney> I find "intellectual property" (trademark, copyright, patent) infuriating.
[19:05] <cmaloney> And I find Disney at the heart of why the system is so completely broken
[19:05] <cmaloney> I have no love for Disney anymore.
[19:06] <jrwren> +1
[19:06] <jrwren> I never did.
[19:06] <jrwren> I'm of the free Mickey crowd.
[19:07] <jrwren> the sad part is that a majority of the population is so brainwashed they cannot see that its a removal of liberty.
[19:07] <jrwren> they don't even understand it is liberty that they have given up.
[19:07] <jrwren> that part is scary to me
[19:08] <cmaloney> Yeah, completely
[19:09] <cmaloney> that part is the most infuriating to me
[19:09] <cmaloney> "We're letting one company own our culture. Wake up!"
[19:11] <jrwren> *nod*
[19:18] <greg-g> now I have RATM in my head
[19:18] <greg-g> thank you cmaloney
[19:19] <cmaloney> That was completely unintentional
[19:19]  * cmaloney is not a RATM fan
[19:52] <jrwren> hahaha, twitter is down!!! this is 2007 all over again!
[19:53] <greg-g> jrwren: loaded for me
[19:53] <jrwren> greg-g: downforeveryone says its not just me.
[19:54] <greg-g> Looks like it’s just you. http://twitter.com/ seems to be UP.
[19:54] <jrwren> sure NOW it says that.
[19:54] <jrwren> 4min ago, not so much :p
[19:58] <greg-g> :P
[19:58] <greg-g> pics or it didn't happen
[20:10] <jrwren> sheesh!
[20:15] <mrgoodcat> lol
[20:16] <mrgoodcat> http://downdetector.com/status/twitter
[20:16] <mrgoodcat> Problems at Twitter
[20:17] <mrgoodcat> a few hundred reports in the last hour at downdetector
[20:20] <greg-g> I don't normally share these things, but, this made me literal lol for longer than I care to admit: http://trumpdonald.org/
[20:20] <greg-g> I mean, just play with it, it's great
[20:22] <jrwren> greg-g: lolling


[01:28] <nicomachus> well, about to dive into the firewall on my htpc. wish me luck.
[01:30] <oerheks> 16.04?
[01:30] <Bashing-om> nicomachus: Tie a 2X4 with a long rope :)
[01:30] <nicomachus> good thinking.
[01:33] <oerheks> i would do a mustang with hoodclips, firewall
[01:34] <nicomachus> well, I can't even reach the machine yet. I may have to actually do it from there...
[01:35] <Bashing-om> but Paul would use a Charger :)
[01:41] <oerheks> oh right
[01:44] <Bashing-om> nicomachus: When it is stuck you want that 4:11 traction from the Charger to PULL .
[01:45] <nicomachus> I'm confused.
[01:48] <Bashing-om> nicomachus: No wonder " dive into the firewall on my htpc " . We help pull you out :)
[01:52] <nicomachus> well idk what I did to it. I tried using a script to set up a killswitch if a VPN was disconnected and idk if it just trashed all my iptables rules or what. I can't SSH into it, even from local network.
[01:56] <Bashing-om> Code Blue and attempt to resuscitate ?
[01:58] <nicomachus> nuke and pave
[01:58] <nicomachus> ?
[02:00] <Bashing-om> Nnooo .. Let's not consider a ressurection - just yet . Fibulation or organ transplants ?
[02:01] <nicomachus> i'm in over my head 99% of the time when it comes to networking issues. Almost seems easier to backup and reinstall at this point.
[02:03] <Bashing-om> Well, yeah . sometimes that is the fastest . Sometimes not the solution . I recall one time 3 days solid effort to find a bent pin on the NIC .
[02:07] <nicomachus> I can't even *ping* this machine.
[02:08] <nicomachus> which means icmp got disallowed somehow too.
[02:16] <nicomachus> oh boy
[02:16] <nicomachus> ohhhhh wow.
[02:17] <nicomachus> my dhcp settings got flushed... the internal IP changed. fml.
[03:43] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:46] <Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje
[03:46] <lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> all ok there?
[03:47] <Bashing-om> Too slow . Ya need to "wake em up " :P
[03:48] <lotuspsychje> lol
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> first a big coffee
[03:54] <Bashing-om> Lubricate the synapts. Will go much better :)
[03:55] <Bashing-om> (also known as motivational fluid )
[03:56] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-needs-your-help-to-finalize-the-unity-to-gnome-shell-transition-517331.shtml
[03:57] <lotuspsychje> free pizza!
[04:02] <Bashing-om> No pizza for me ; As I think I fall short " experienced GNOME Shell and GTK themers, CSS experts, as well as people who are very good at identifying issues " . Think that might be a short list ?
[04:03] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[04:56] <EriC^^> morning guys
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[05:01] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: WB ;)
[05:05] <EriC^^> what you guys up to
[05:05] <EriC^^> pizza and stuff
[05:05] <EriC^^> yum
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> gotta go work soon :p
[05:07] <EriC^^> :D
[05:08] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yesterday i found some kind of heaven
[05:09] <EriC^^> it turns out, google isn't putting all the search results back when i search, i tried duckduckgo.com and *BAM*
[05:09] <EriC^^> torrent heaven
[05:09] <EriC^^> i found a site zooqle.com it has a lot of movies and other stuff
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> cool
[05:10] <EriC^^> it's crazy man, all this time i've been putting stuff and inurl:pdf for instance etc and i get nothing back
[05:11] <EriC^^> i thought the warez world had gotten shit, it's google!
[05:11] <EriC^^> there's war for the planet of apes there, going to d/l today
[05:12] <lotuspsychje> cool, lemme know if its good
[05:14] <EriC^^> nice
[05:14] <EriC^^> any secret recipes you've learned where you work?
[05:15] <EriC^^> i bake stuff sometimes, recently discovered eclaires, pastry cream and tarts, easy and good
[05:16] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no everything is from their ideas
[05:17] <EriC^^> does your gf like baking?
[05:18] <lotuspsychje> sometimes yes
[05:18] <EriC^^> nice
[05:19] <EriC^^> been making sluchies like crazy lately
[05:19] <lotuspsychje> cool
[05:19] <lotuspsychje> i love cream filled deserts :p
[05:20] <EriC^^> oh yeah :D
[05:20] <EriC^^> it hits the spot :D
[05:20] <EriC^^> i think i ate like 12 eclaires last time and later at night i was thinking damn these eclaires arent good they hurt the stomach
[05:20] <EriC^^> haha i just put 1+1 together, i ate like 24 or something
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> lolll
[05:21] <EriC^^> i made a batch, had pastry cream left over them made another later in the afternoon
[05:21] <EriC^^> they're very easy to make and they turn out just like the ones you buy
[05:22] <EriC^^> the only shitty part is you have to make pastry cream, and also eclaires, so 2 separate stuff
[05:23] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[05:24] <EriC^^> the sluchies are nice and easy
[05:24] <EriC^^> just need a mixer that can crush ice
[05:25] <EriC^^> blueberry juice with it is pretty awesome, there's also red watermelon plus lemon's juice
[05:27] <lotuspsychje> mmmm
[05:27] <lotuspsychje> we have a lotta cakes at work
[05:28] <EriC^^> cool
[05:29] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: they all baked at a big central baker industry
[05:30] <lotuspsychje> then distributed to all shops
[05:32] <EriC^^> ah i see
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: cakes are motsly biologic, but heavy for eating
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> dark heavy chocolat etc
[05:41] <EriC^^> yeah that's true
[05:44] <EriC^^> how's the shop going?
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im at 10 invoices atm
[05:45] <EriC^^> great!
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: slowly growing stable :p
[05:45] <EriC^^> cool
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i hope to merge with 18.04 gnome
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: new orders with newly ubuntu
[05:48] <EriC^^> yup gotta keep it fresh
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think final 17.10 might look like unity afterall
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> as they working at a sort of dock
[05:51] <EriC^^> nice
[09:57] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:53] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
[11:55] <BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
[14:10] <nicomachus> TJ-!
[14:10] <nicomachus> hi!
[14:12] <TJ-> Hey! long time no be here :D I had forgotten the name of the program I used for IRC, and only muscle memory is allowing me to remember the key sequences to press
[14:12] <oerheks> wb TJ-
[14:13] <TJ-> only dropped in to try to get some help with lineageos
[14:14] <TJ-> How is everyone getting on?
[14:15] <oerheks> holliday time, easy peasy
[14:19] <TJ-> I'm fighting high winds and far too much rain whilst trying to install a new roof!
[14:19] <TJ-> Oh, and trying to get a 15km wifi link up to bring a VDSL connection in
[14:33] <nicomachus> well, that's just about the last 2 things you want when installing a roof.
[14:34] <TJ-> Literally got the roof tied down with rope right now, parts already blew off once today
[18:19] <oerheks> hmmmm jdk 9 is out http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk9-dev/2017-August/005940.html
[20:18] <leftyfb> oerheks: I'm confused. oracle-java9-installer has been available from the webupd8team/java/ubuntu ppa for a long time now
[20:19] <TJ-> That's the Oracle one though, isn't it, not the OpenJDK one?
[20:20] <leftyfb> oh, right
[20:20] <TJ-> Oracle's contains proprietary code
[20:20] <leftyfb> how is openjdk compared to oracle these days? Has it surpassed oracle?
[20:21] <leftyfb> my understanding is that most of the original Sun projects have been left pretty stagnant
[20:45] <oerheks> i see no readon to use oracle blobs, but some say it makes a little difference
[20:45] <oerheks> c/reason
[23:04] <nacc> lol
[23:05] <nacc> what a waste of time! :/
[23:06] <Bashing-om> nacc: and Casteil wonders why his systen is broke "meh, I don't have time for this' :(
[23:06] <nacc> yeah
[23:06] <nacc> although if it's just a headless irc bouncer, just reimage it
[23:07] <Bashing-om> nacc: Ya got a bit of time for explanation IRT git install method ?
[23:08] <nacc> Bashing-om: sure
[23:10] <Bashing-om> Not knowing nada of snap . what is the advantage of installing git " sudo snap install --classic git-ubuntu " ?
[23:11] <nacc> leaving aside classic for a moment
[23:11] <nacc> as the owner of the application in question
[23:11] <nacc> I can specify exactly what version of every dependency should be used by my snap
[23:11] <nacc> because all of my dependencies ship in the snap
[23:11] <nacc> (a snap is a squashfs image)
[23:12] <nacc> so as long as my PATH and PYTHONPATH, etc. are set correctly (to refer to paths in my snap, which are well-defined by snapd), then I control *exactly* how my snap runs
[23:12] <nacc> on every system it is running on
[23:12] <nacc> and it no longer matters what version of, e.g., git, Ubuntu ships with
[23:12] <nacc> I have my own
[23:12] <nacc> and also means you don't need to install git on your system, the snap has its own
[23:13] <nacc> In confined snaps that's a hard requirement (they can't actually see the system filesystem)
[23:13] <nacc> In a classic snap, they are more like regular debs and they can use system-installed stuff. I'm trying to avoid that, just for my own sanity (it means my test matrix is exactly what I build on, and nothign else)
[23:15] <nacc> gawd, how useless would ssh be if you could only ssh once per-user, per-host??
[23:20] <Bashing-om> nacc: Great I be convinced of snap . Time to get my feet wet with snap packaging as that is going to be the future .
[23:21] <nacc> Bashing-om: it makes a *ton* of sense (i think the problem they are trying to solve is the same as flatpak) for upstream projects
[23:21] <nacc> Bashing-om: for end-user applications
[23:23] <Bashing-om> nacc: I will see what I can learn . See what the water feels like 1st . git is a great way to start .
[23:24] <nacc> Bashing-om: and tbh, i'm not using snap optimally -- because i'm still a relative noob python developer, so we're not yet structure in a way that can use the python plugin to just "build" our snap
[23:24] <nacc> Bashing-om: so instead, we copy it in and I have my own wrapper scripts
[23:25] <nacc> Bashing-om: what's really interesting is even though my snap contains `git`, youc an't call it directly
[23:25] <nacc> you can only call git-ubuntu, because that's the only app I've defined
[23:31] <Bashing-om> nacc: ^ so I have read . daunting how much I have to learn and I still have so much to learn about apt :)


[08:13] <massiveoni> date -u
[08:14] <massiveoni> heya everyone
[10:04] <massiveoni> heya, does anyone know how long the class tomorrow goes for?


[18:36] <sok> on an optimus graphics card i have to query the gpu information via "optirun nvidia-settings -c:8 ..." and by default, in /etc/bumblebee/bumblebee.conf:
[18:36] <sok> # Card power state at exit. Set to false if the card shoud be ON when Bumblebee server exits.
[18:36] <sok> TurnCardOffAtExit=false
[18:37] <sok> so... if turn on the graphics card via the applet, it immediately starts querying itself, which in turn switches the card off
[18:38] <sok> either, i open an idle optirun thread when the button is clicked, or the button will have to be made read only
[18:40] <sok> ugh and this is all the wrong channel but still relevant :P
[18:40] <tjaalton> btw, /usr/lib/nvidia337/ is not provided by any official package, so if you install from external sources you get to keep both pieces


[11:40] <gegoxaren[m]> ```
[11:41]  * gegoxaren[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/59ea79507f168da9d7a2cd5e74ecd3f72a8132fb
[11:41] <gegoxaren[m]>  * ```... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/6c26e7251eac9b34f9984f2a93b36fc4ed9acf72>)
[11:43] <gegoxaren[m]> this is the 3.3 branch.
[16:13] <jelmer> gegoxaren: yeah, brz is a binary - not a script
[16:13] <jelmer> eggs won't work - I'm surprised it falls back to that
[16:18] <jelmer> but something like  "python3 setup.py install --user" should I believe
[16:18] <jelmer> what's the exact command you are running?
[18:11] <gegoxaren[m]> I did just that, as it was what was in the INSTALL instructions. python3 setup.py install --user ~
[18:21] <jelmer> gegoxaren: it says --home here, and that works for me with trunk
[21:42] <gegoxaren[m]> Yeah, that is what I meant.
[21:43] <gegoxaren[m]> --home requiers an argument.
[21:45] <gegoxaren[m]> I get the same error with the latet trunk.
[21:45] <gegoxaren[m]> `UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x90 in position 24: invalid start byte in scripts/brz file at path: /home/gego/lib/python/breezy-3.3.3.dev0-py3.9-linux-i686.egg/EGG-INFO/scripts/brz`
[21:47] <jelmer> \how are you running brz?
[21:48] <jelmer> @gegoxaren if you're just running "brz", what does it resolve to?
[21:48] <jelmer> for me, it installs $HOME/bin/brz, which is a binary file
[21:48] <jelmer> in your case it looks like it's being passed through python3
[21:51] <gegoxaren[m]> Ah, sorry, I need to explain a bit more: This is not running the binary that is provided by Debian 11, that works, but is missing. The version thaht ships is 3.1.0.
[21:51] <gegoxaren[m]> The erroroccurs when I try to buid it from source.
[21:52] <jelmer> yeah, I understood you're installing from source - that should still create $HOME/bin/brz as a binary rather than as something that invokes python3
[21:53] <gegoxaren[m]> it does not.
[21:54] <jelmer> what are the contents of $HOME/bin/brz in that case?
[21:54] <jelmer> and is it indeed changed by setup.py (does the mtime change?) ?
[21:58] <gegoxaren[m]> The binary does not appear in ~/bin/
[21:59] <jelmer> gegoxaren: in that case, what file gets run when you execute brz (i.e. what's output of "which brz") ?
[21:59] <gegoxaren[m]> That is the system version.
[22:00] <jelmer> the error you pasted suggests it's something that reads from $HOME
[22:01] <gegoxaren[m]> That error occurs durtin the runnung of setup.py.
[22:01] <gegoxaren[m]> durin*
[22:02] <gegoxaren[m]> This is in the build log: `Copying rust artifact from /home/gego/dev/breezy/brz/target/release/brz to build/lib.linux-i686-cpython-39/brz`
[22:04] <jelmer> have you tried removing the existing  /home/gego/lib/python/breezy-3.3.3.dev0-py3.9-linux-i686.egg before running setup.py?
[22:04] <gegoxaren[m]> Yes.
[22:07] <gegoxaren[m]> Well, I'm off ot bed. Do not worry to much, it works, as it is... Even if it can have it's quirks that I have to work around.
[22:14] <jelmer> I suspect there's a leftover file from an old installation somewhere
[22:15] <jelmer> but it's not entirely clear to me where that file comes in
[22:15] <jelmer> goodnight


[19:45] <kaviartub> hello!! Is there a way to collect difrent VSTi's factory / user presets at one place?? its kinda everywhere
[19:49] <OvenWerks> kaviartub: the VST 2 spec allows developers to put their files anywhere, the VST 3 spec tells them where.
[19:49] <kaviartub> thanks
[19:50] <OvenWerks> I do not know if there is a way to change that for VST2 plugins if just moving them but keeping them separated by the same number of steps would work or not
[19:50] <OvenWerks> it may depend on the VST
[19:52] <kaviartub> Im ready to accept that this is the way things are. noobing on :)


[00:02] <mgz> which one?
[00:02] <mgz> I don't understand the top branch, it seems hg and bzr do all his bullet points there anyway.
[00:02] <mgz> *top item
[00:03] <mgz> branches on the brain.
[00:05] <lifeless> mgz: those pages are not rational
[00:06] <maxb> bzr does not make it as cheap to branch as git, unless you've preconfigured yourself into a repo + treeless branches + checkout structure, or are using the colo plugin
[00:06] <poolie> i think bzr-colo does that, but
[00:06] <poolie> right, it's not the easy default
[00:06] <poolie> and in particular it's not part of the framework where it can be reached by bzr-git etc
[00:06] <lifeless> spiv: very nice post
[00:07] <mgz> if even "not creating new working tree" is what he means by fast, it's seldom actually slow.
[00:08] <poolie> so i'd like to see that finished off
[00:08] <poolie> lifeless, about 2.4?
[00:09] <lifeless> about 3
[00:09] <lifeless> and 3to2 etc
[00:10] <spiv> poolie: jelmer said to me yesterday(?) that we should talk about bug 485601; there's been some off-list (and off-bug :/) mails about what precisely bzr's model constrains (i.e. is it valid for bzr-svn to change ie.revision in existing inventories when filling ghosts).
[00:11] <spiv> poolie: otherwise hacking sounds great :)
[00:11] <spiv> lifeless: thanks!
[00:11] <poolie> i'll add that to the wiki
[00:14] <poolie> how did we even get onto the topic of 2.4?
[00:18] <mkanat> poolie: Hey hey.
[00:18] <mkanat> poolie: Since I have Approve on the XSS fix, can I also merge https://code.launchpad.net/~mkanat/loggerhead/raw-controller/+merge/42675 ?
[00:19]  * poolie looks
[00:20] <poolie> yes, i'll reply
[00:21] <mkanat> poolie: Great, thanks. :-)
[00:21] <poolie> just for curiousity
[00:21] <mkanat> poolie: That means I can get on to other work!
[00:21] <mkanat> poolie: That will start tomorrow.
[00:21] <poolie> how does this work in bugzilla
[00:21] <mkanat> poolie: Ah, very similarly, but with more complexity.
[00:21] <poolie> what stops me uploading an attachment that does xss?
[00:22] <mkanat> poolie: The long answer is: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38862
[00:22] <mkanat> poolie: We do something very similar--if you access attachment.cgi with a request to serve a file, you get redirected to a separate domain.
[00:23] <mkanat> If the admin hasn't specified a separate domain, Bugzilla defaults to downloading the file instead of displaying it (although admins have an option to override that).
[00:23] <poolie> hm
[00:23] <mkanat> poolie: We offer the option to put %bugid% into the attachment domain, so that you can have one attachment per bug.
[00:23] <mkanat> poolie: There are also various security situations:
[00:23] <poolie> so that second case is similar to what i was asking for with loggerhead downloads?
[00:23] <mkanat> poolie: * Bugs that normal users cannot see, but only special users can see
[00:23] <poolie> ie that if you don't have a separate domain, by default it only downloads?
[00:24] <mkanat> poolie: * Attachments that normal users cannot see, but only an even MORE special group of users can see.
[00:24] <poolie> however, perhaps it's different because the normal deployment of loggerhead is readonly
[00:24] <mkanat> poolie: Yeah, and doesn't involve auth.
[00:24] <mkanat> poolie: Bugzilla involves not only auth, but a lot of high-security stuff.
[00:24] <mkanat> poolie: For the secure bugs and the secure attachments, we do tokens, much like lifeless described.
[00:24] <mwhudson> loggerhead does support --allow-writes :-)
[00:25] <mwhudson> but without any auth indeed, so don't do that
[00:25] <mkanat> poolie: We generate a one-use token, redirect to the URL with that token, and then delete it as soon as the page is viewed.
[00:25] <mkanat> poolie: Because the attachment domain can't ever get any cookies--otherwise that would partially defeat the XSS protection that we're going for.
[00:25] <mkanat> (Although our auth cookies are already httponly.)
[00:26] <mkanat> mwhudson: Yeah, that's like "bzr serve --allow-writes". Bad idea. :-)
[00:26] <poolie> mm
[00:26] <poolie> ok
[00:26] <mkanat> poolie: We also have extra complexity involved because there are a lot of other automatic redirects that can happen in Bugzilla, mostly around forcing SSL.
[00:27] <poolie> so, i think you should just mention the feature in readme or whatever
[00:27] <poolie> right
[00:27] <poolie> otherwise it's fine, let's land it
[00:27] <mkanat> poolie: Okay, thanks. :-)
[00:31] <mkanat> All right, I'm out. Later!
[00:38] <poolie> lifeless, oh you meant the prisoner's dilemma mail?
[00:38] <poolie> i agree
[08:20] <vila> hi all !
[08:21]  * fullermd waves vila around a bit.
[11:56] <voidspace> which versions of Python does bzr support?
[11:59] <bob2> all the way back to 2.4 currently
[12:12] <voidspace> bob2: thanks
[12:51] <CaMason> hi guys. Any thoughts on what would cause this? NameError: global name 'readline' is not defined
[12:52] <CaMason> just started happening after my system crashed
[12:52] <maxb> ouch. Was there filesystem corruption? Sounds like a python module has disappeared from disk
[12:52] <CaMason> well I did an fsck and everything was OK
[12:53] <maxb> What is your OS?
[12:53] <CaMason> Ubuntu 10.10 running inside of a VM on Windows 7
[12:56] <maxb> CaMason: Does the file /usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/readline.so exist?
[12:57] <maxb> erm, nevermind, I misread your initial error message
[12:57] <CaMason> it does
[12:57] <maxb> Please re-execute the bzr command that gave you trouble with -Derror, and pastebin the output
[12:58] <CaMason> http://pastebin.com/2bZSnnxC
[12:59] <maxb> What is your bzr version? (dpkg -l bzr)
[12:59] <CaMason> 2.1.1-1
[13:00] <maxb> It appears to be a bug which is masking the real error
[13:01] <maxb> Please open /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/pack.py in an editor, go to line 206, and change % (readline, )) to % (result, ))
[13:02] <CaMason> done
[13:02] <CaMason> bzr: ERROR: short readline in the readvfile hunk: '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
[13:04] <CaMason> something to do with my repo?
[13:05] <CaMason> interestingly, `bzr log` works fine on another repo (no error). This error is occuring in `bzr log` (and branch) at a particular commit
[13:06] <CaMason> I've opened the repo with qlog, and when I scroll down to r104, I then get the error popping up
[13:07] <CaMason> I was working on this branch when the crash happened. I do have a copy of it elsewhere. Should I do a pull?
[13:09] <maxb> CaMason: OK, so it looks like the crash has caused one or more files within a bzr repository to be corrupted by filling it with lots of zero bytes
[13:10] <CaMason> oh fie
[13:11] <maxb> Is the problem branch using a shared or standalone repository?
[13:11] <CaMason> standalone
[13:11] <maxb> (bzr info if you're not sure)
[13:12] <maxb> OK, if you have a copy elsewhere, fetching that would be the simplest option
[13:12] <CaMason> yes I do.
[13:12] <maxb> If you have new revisions locally that are not in the remote, it may work to pull the broken branch into a fresh copy of the remote
[13:12] <CaMason> no, fortunately I pushed not so long ago
[13:14] <CaMason> shall I just put this down to an epic BSOD failure?
[13:28] <maxb> CaMason: Are you running ext4 on this filesystem?
[13:29] <maxb> Even if you are, this really ought not to happen :-/
[13:29] <maxb> Is the branch data private?
[13:29] <CaMason> it is :(
[13:30] <maxb> It would be necessary to study in exactly which files the corruption was present to try to determine what component was at fault
[15:23] <glyph> is 'bzr branches' ridiculously slow all the time?
[15:24] <glyph> I'm running it against a local repository with maybe 500 branches in it, and it's taken 15 minutes already
[15:50] <maxb> glyph: It's ridiculously slow if you have bzr-{hg,git,svn} installed
[16:04] <jelmer> maxb: huh? They should only add a single extra stat each, unless you actually have hg, git or svn checkouts
[16:04] <jelmer> single stat per dir that is
[21:03] <lifeless> mkanat: hi
[21:03] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/698305
[21:16] <mgz> ...whatever that ext4 option that makes it sucks less should be up as a bzr faq
[21:16] <mgz> nearly every time someone reports repo corruption on launchpad or the list, they're running on ext4
[21:29] <poolie> indeed
[21:29] <poolie> perhaps we should flush by default too
[21:29] <poolie> bye all!
[22:34] <mkanat> lifeless: Okay. If that's a high-priority item, you can talk to poolie to have it put on my todo list. It looks pretty minor to me, though.
[22:35] <lifeless> mkanat: in LP we have a policy that OOPSes are always high/critical (we're polishing the label atm)
[22:35] <lifeless> mkanat: poolie is flying atm
[22:35] <mkanat> lifeless: Ah.
[22:35] <mkanat> lifeless: I wouldn't say that that's practically critical in this case.
[22:35] <mkanat> lifeless: I used to have a similar policy for Bugzilla, but we scrapped it as impractical.
[22:35] <lifeless> mkanat: we're seeing 6000 error reports a day
[22:35] <mkanat> lifeless: From just that?
[22:36] <lifeless> mkanat: possibly, due to some config issues our group-and-analyser isn't running on them at the moment
[22:36] <lifeless> sorry, 12K a day - two servers.
[22:36] <mkanat> lifeless: From loggerhead alone?
[22:36] <lifeless> yes
[22:36] <mkanat> Jeez. Okay.
[22:36] <lifeless> data is useful :)
[22:36] <mkanat> So I can see why it would be at least important to reduce the noise.
[22:37] <lifeless> its also important in presenting a pleasant UI to users
[22:37] <mkanat> And yeah, that should be a 404.
[22:37] <mkanat> lifeless: Yes, although if you hack the URL, presenting a pleasant UI to you is not a high-priority item.
[22:37] <mkanat> However, reducing the noise does seem important.
[22:40] <mkanat> lifeless: Anyhow, my work list is very very limited right now, I can't add anything without poolie's authorization.
[22:41] <lifeless> thats fine
[22:41] <lifeless> when you see him next, can you ask him aboot it?
[22:43] <mkanat> lifeless: Sure. If you don't hear from me on that bug tomorrow, then feel free to remind me, also.
[22:43] <mars> Hi everyone, I have a bug with our code that uses bzrlib that I am trying to work through, and I could use a hand figuring out what is happening
[22:44] <lifeless> shoot
[22:45] <mars> lifeless, thanks.  Our code does a branch checkout, runs the suite, then a branch push
[22:45] <mars> lifeless, the push happens ~4 hours after the checkout.  I get this error (starts around line 25): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/551269/
[22:46] <mars> lifeless, if I remove the test suite run, then the branch push happens perfectly, as expected
[22:46] <lifeless> probably tcp timeout
[22:46] <lifeless> establish a new branch object rather than using the same one
[22:46] <lifeless> possibly idle ssh session timeout on the codehosting service
[22:47] <mars> yes, we suspected that too
[22:47] <mars> I was wondering if there was a way to close out the connection, or copy the Branch object, but I can create a new one too (more invasive to the existing code though)
[22:48] <mars> thanks lifeless
[22:48] <lifeless> b = bzrlib.branch.Branch.open(oldbranch.base)
[22:48] <lifeless> will open fresh with no reuse of session/transport
[22:49] <mars> cool, thank you