[15:31] <Stargaze> FYI: dropbox/ubuntu one is very convenient for synchronizing your host & client systems :)
[15:31] <BUGabundo_remote> Stargaze: and?????
[15:32] <Stargaze> BUGabundo_remote, i was just sharing my enthousiasm :)
[15:32] <nasso__> Pici, http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-desktop-amd64.iso
[15:32] <rww> BUGabundo_remote: People go crazy for everything :)
[15:32] <trism> kind of hope this really isn't beta 1 (for desktop i386 anyway) since it is just the daily from yesterday that locks up on boot for me with a nvidia card
[15:33] <Pici> nasso__: So?
[15:33] <nasso__> Pici, i call that out. even if they havnt sent an email ut yet
[15:34] <jpds> nasso__: Please use a mirror.
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> pff
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> lets see how many SMART ppl did what I told them to
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> download daily and not zsync
[15:36] <nasso__> jpds, mirror doesnt seem to be synced yet
[15:36] <jpds> nasso__: They are.
[15:36] <nasso__> jpds, ok. not linked then. will take a closer look
[15:37] <TheGrammarFreak> I can't remove one of my desktop activities on KDE. Any ideas?
[15:38] <AnAnt> Beta released yet
[15:38] <TheGrammarFreak> AnAnt: ye
[15:38] <AnAnt> URL ?
[15:38] <Stargaze> AnAnt, an easy way to test Lucid, is by using 'Testrive'
[15:39] <DanaG> (gnome-settings-daemon:4986): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_propagate_error: assertion `src != NULL' failed
[15:39] <Stargaze> *TestDrive
[15:39] <DanaG> argh, when I log in, gnome-settings-daemon isn't running!
[15:39] <TheGrammarFreak> http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/
[15:39] <AnAnt> Stargaze: what's that ?
[15:40] <Stargaze> AnAnt, it's app you can install and then use to download Lucid in a virtual machine, very easy to use
[15:40] <czr> hmm. if they'd waited for 5 more minutes before uploading the isos, the timestamps would've been much better
[15:40] <AnAnt> Stargaze: oh, I just get the desktop ISO & run it in virtualbox
[15:41] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: Not really, smarter is: http://people.canonical.com/~jpds/mirrors/ [big images].
[15:41] <Stargaze> AnAnt, when you select Lucid, it starts downloading and opens the iso in a virtual machine (qemu, virtual box etc)
[15:41] <TheGrammarFreak> Virtual machines, lol. I've been running alpha3 for weeks now
[15:42] <Stargaze> AnAnt, check https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[15:43] <DrHalan> is glibmmconfig.h missing in libglibmm-dev?
[15:44] <AnAnt> TheGrammarFreak: thanks
[15:44] <MarcoPau> xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[15:46] <nasso__> MarcoPau, #
[15:46] <nasso__> #
[15:46] <nasso__> The fglrx binary driver for ATI video chipsets does not yet support the X server in Lucid. As a workaround, users should use the open source -ati driver instead. (494699)
[15:47] <MarcoPau> nasso__: that's what I'm trying to use
[15:47] <nasso__> MarcoPau, is that helpful. was in the releasenotes of beta 1
[15:47] <MarcoPau> xserver-xorg-video-ati and radeon. those are open source drivers
[15:47] <nasso__> ok
[15:48] <MarcoPau> xorg won't find ati_drv.so, which is there, nor it will read my xorg.conf, with which I was trying to force it to use radeon
[15:50] <KB1JWQ> Hmm, keyserver.ubuntu.com keeps erroring out.
[15:51] <rww> KB1JWQ: Yeah, it does that rather often.
[15:51] <Pici> KB1JWQ: you can use http://pgp.mit.edu/ if its unresponsive.
[15:51] <Desciero> I have ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 and cannot get my card working with the open source drivers as of alpha 3
[15:51] <technoviking> will be glad when the beta freeze is over, jones for some updates:)
[15:51] <Desciero> bug #494699
[15:52] <Desciero> that workaround hasn't worked for me as of yet
[15:52] <Desciero> don't see a fix in beta 1 either
[15:52] <Desciero> :-/
[15:58] <nasso__> mirrors are still not updates. too bad :(
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> http://ubuntu.rave.org/
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> This one is
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> http://nl.releases.ubuntu.com/ too
[16:00] <nasso__> okay. none in sweden...
[16:01] <DrHalan> i can't find the glibconfig.h anywhere. but libglib-dev is installed...
[16:01] <nasso__> oh. i had other downloads running. downloading 700kb/sek from main now..
[16:03] <_jst> what do i need for intel x64? amd64 iso ??
[16:03] <rww> _jst: Which processor do you have?
[16:03] <Ian_Corne> yes
[16:03] <_jst> ok thanks
[16:03] <Ian_Corne> rww: he said he had intel x64
[16:04] <FunnyLookinHat> whaoh wait - http://ubuntu.rave.org/ has 10.04 Beta 1 images - it's realeased now?
[16:05] <Jaymac> yeah
[16:05] <callaghan> yes: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[16:06] <bjwebb> can someone help me with?
[16:06] <bjwebb> An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade:
[16:06] <bjwebb> Trying to install blacklisted version 'openoffice.org-filter-binfilter_1:3.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1'
[16:06] <DrHalan> mh
[16:07] <DrHalan> bjwebb: have you tried removing oOo before upgradding?
[16:07] <bjwebb> no, i'll try that
[16:07] <johndarc> bjwebb: have you tried dist-upgrade?
[16:08] <bjwebb> johndarc: hmmm, this is from karmic to lucid, i would've thought update-manager would do something like dist-upgrade
[16:08] <johndarc> that's what I would do, apt-get upgrade, then apt-get dist-upgrade, I am not entirely sure if it would break things, though
[16:08] <rye> bjwebb, hm... I had to remove openoffice for the upgrade to proceed...
[16:09] <rye> bjwebb, but I was not able to replicate that afterwards so I decided that's my local modifications
[16:09] <rye> reproduce
[16:09] <bjwebb> hmmmm
[16:09] <bjwebb> seems its not unique though
[16:09] <bjwebb> has it been reported as a bug?
[16:12] <mvo> bjwebb: this is protection really, this error
[16:12] <mvo> it means that 'openoffice.org-filter-binfilter_1:3.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1' will break during the upgrade and that it refuses to upgrade therefore
[16:12] <bjwebb> ah
[16:12] <mvo> bjwebb: either remove this package before the upgrade or wait a bit
[16:12] <mvo> there will be a fix sooonish, but its not in the archive yet
[16:12] <bjwebb> okay
[16:13] <mvo> removing is actually safe and re-adding. it just causes trouble during the upgrade
[16:15] <DrHalan> nobody knows wher to get glibconfig.h?
[16:15] <Okidesu> is the beta out yet :)
[16:16] <trism> DrHalan: libglib2.0-dev
[16:16] <DrHalan> trism: i have this package installed
[16:16] <DrHalan> in contains glib.h but not glibconfig.h
[16:18] <Pici> DrHalan: libglib2.0-dev: /usr/lib/glib-2.0/include/glibconfig.h
[16:20] <robin0800> beta1 is out
[16:20] <jml> citation needed
[16:22] <jpds> Okidesu: No.
[16:23] <jo-erlend> does anyone know if the decision of moving the titlebar buttons have been made final, or if the question is still open, as Mark Shuttleworth suggested recently?
[16:24] <jo-erlend> I need to start working on my screencasts soon, and I don't want to have to repeat the work if it's changed. I don't want the screencasts to look different from the real product either.
[16:24] <DrHalan> Pici: thanks now i've found them. Just kinda confused because this adds a lot of inclue directories to my project
[16:25] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-10.04-Button-Rearrangement-Becomes-Hot-Topic
[16:32] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: it's final for 10.04
[16:33] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, reference?
[16:34] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: we are past interface freeze
[16:34] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, Mark Shuttleworth said only a few days ago, that they might go both ways.
[16:34] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, it was after that he said they might go both ways.
[16:36] <swoody> I don't see why they don't just implement an option in the appearance section to make it easy to modify the titlebar layout - like you have in KDE :/
[16:36] <jo-erlend> I haven't been able to find out what the benefit of moving the buttons are in the first place.
[16:36] <swoody> seems simple enough, and gives everyone the option to *easily* change it to however they like it
[16:37] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=133221
[16:37] <swoody> jo-erlend: my theory - Mac-buntu ;)
[16:37] <BoondoKlife> swoody: There is a very easy way to do it with tweak ubuntu. Lust a button click
[16:37] <jo-erlend> but I've had to reschedule alot of my plans because of this... It's annoying.
[16:37] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: "Moving everything to the left opens up the space on the right nicely, and I would like to experiment in 10.10 with some innovative options there. It's much easier to do that if we make this change now."
[16:37] <Ian_Corne> jo-erlend: they have ideas for the space on the right now
[16:38] <DanaG> There IS no benefit to moving the buttons... all it does is piss people off.
[16:38] <jo-erlend> oh, so there will be even more changes before release?
[16:38] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: no - in 10.10
[16:38] <swoody> jo-erlend: they're aiming for those changes for 10.10
[16:38] <swoody> so Lucid +1
[16:38] <jo-erlend> why would the change it now if the space isn't needed until the next cycle anyway?
[16:39] <koltroll> What are you discussing?
[16:39] <Linux000> jo-erland: I would think it would be to get people used to the change without changing to much.
[16:39] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: To get people used to it I would assume.
[16:39] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, probably because 1.04 is an LTS
[16:39] <jo-erlend> we're not discussing anything. I'm just wondering when I can start working.
[16:39] <Stargaze> 1 = 10
[16:40] <jo-erlend> Stargaze, uh? What does that have to do with interface changes in the next version of ubuntu?
[16:40] <claptrap> Mmk, so I'm trying to upgrade to Lucid with "update-manager -d" and it's throwing up this error: http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[16:40] <koltroll> jo-erlend, surely you are discussing something.
[16:41] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, because it is an LTS, it will be supported longer and changes are more permanent
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: this was just brought up in here :)
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: try removing the package, upgrade, then reinstall it
[16:41] <jo-erlend> I took two weeks vacation from work to work on marketing materials, screencasts, etc... Completely wasted because someone might want to try to experiment with something obscure in a future version of Ubuntu, which might use a completely different shell... Annoying.
[16:41] <Dr_Willis> Of course 6 mo from now.. we may be using gnome3 :) (doubtfull)
[16:41] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: if you are asking if there won't be *any* changes to the interface after today than no one can answer that but that's unlikely.
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: or you can wait for a fix, I hear there's supposed to be one fairly soon
[16:41] <Stargaze> idd, jo-erlend, the ubuntu community is displeased, too
[16:41] <claptrap> swoody: So I'd need to remove the "blacklisted" package it has listed thar?
[16:42] <swoody> claptrap: yessir :)
[16:42] <mvo> claptrap: its a safesty feature
[16:42] <jo-erlend> I've been tempted to jump off the wagon because of this. The incredible lack of respect for the community is .... shocking.
[16:42] <Linux000> koltroll: The buttons in 10.04, close, minimize, etc...
[16:42] <mvo> (oh, I see that this was explained already)
[16:42] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: there were no changes other than cosmetical made after 4th so I see no problem - the user interface freeze has been known for a long time.
[16:42] <koltroll> Linux000, oh ok
[16:42] <claptrap> swoody: Awesome. Also, curiosity... the text in that window says that's an Alpha version. Am I getting the beta, or... ?
[16:42] <Stargaze> idd jo-erlend that's what everybody says
[16:43] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right, but Mark Shuttleworth confirmed that nothing was confirmed regarding the interface changes.
[16:43] <swoody> claptrap: hmmm... I'm not really sure tbh :/
[16:43] <Stargaze> Shuttleworth is the 'benevolent dictator for life' :)
[16:43] <jo-erlend> right. Let the dictator do all the work then.
[16:44] <rye> what's wrong with max/min/close buttons on the left? It took me 10 minutes to switch and I find it extremely nice
[16:44] <jo-erlend> I don't mind the change itself. I mind wasting weeks waiting for someone to tell me if my work will be made useless because the schedule isn't something we worry about.
[16:44] <claptrap> swoody: qq
[16:44] <cwillu_at_work> hey, did we lose the f6 -> urlbar shortcut in firefox recently?
[16:44] <jo-erlend> rye, then you're probably one of those people who have to aim at the buttons. I use them blindly because I've had them there for about twenty years.
[16:44] <mvo> claptrap: the text is not updated just yet (known bug :/)
[16:45] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, Shuttleworth said: "This is not a democracy. Good feedback, good data, are welcome. But we are not voting on design decisions."
[16:45] <claptrap> mvo: But it IS the beta, then? ;D
[16:45] <mvo> yes
[16:45] <jo-erlend> rye, how many days did it take you to switch from qwerty to dvorak?
[16:45] <mvo> claptrap: and soon the text should be fixed too :)
[16:45] <claptrap> mvo: Cool deal. :3
[16:46] <rye> jo-erlend, well, I am still using qwerty keyboard
[16:46] <claptrap> Beta, do want. Alpha of a Linux install... not so much~
[16:46] <mvo> :)
[16:46] <Stargaze> maybe shuttleworth wants ubuntu to look more like mac
[16:46] <Dr_Willis> install alpha, update/upgrade.. you basically have the beta i belive
[16:46] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: what does dvorak have to do with button order? that's the weirdest argument I've heard in the last few days
[16:46] <Dr_Willis> Stargaze:  i belive he said that he did not make the decision on that.
[16:46] <cwillu_at_work> rye, that you don't mind it after ten minutes isn't proof that it isn't disruptive for others
[16:46] <jo-erlend> rye, why don't you just change? Interface changes isn't important, right? You'll simply adjust to it. It's been proven that dvorak is much better than qwerty.
[16:47] <claptrap> I wanted to learn dvorak, but I can't help feeling that it would be essentially useless. You'll be great on your keyboard... and shitty ANYWHERE ELSE.
[16:47] <Stargaze> Dr_Willis, whoever decided it, then
[16:47] <Dr_Willis> I seem to always go back to  bluecurve theme anywhere
[16:47] <cwillu_at_work> jo-erlend, bad example, because the studies are in dispute
[16:47] <rye> jo-erlend, if they come up with a keyboard layout for laptops that has the dvorak layout I will be happy to try that. The buttons in the title bar behave the way they tell you they do, not as qwerty keyboard with dvorak layout
[16:47] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, well, changing to dvorak is a _useful_ interface change, which might require some time getting used to, but then makes your computing experience better. Changing the buttons didn't improve anything at all, but still requires some time getting used to. I still haven't been able to.
[16:47] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: you are actually coming close to being a troll using arguments like that and this discussion is heading towards yet another flamewar so I'm done
[16:48] <Linux000> What is the command to get the beta? or is it not out yet
[16:48] <Dr_Willis> kklimonda:  yep. I see a lot of this  happening in the upcomming weeks
[16:48] <DanaG> my gripe isn't "on the left", it's "max min close".
[16:48] <Dr_Willis> Linux000:  its not ot yet that i know of..
[16:48] <DanaG> That order breaks EVERYONE's muscle memory.
[16:48] <DanaG> Windows does min,max,close on right.
[16:48] <Stargaze> Linux000, check https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[16:48] <DanaG> Mac does close, min, "make bigger" on left.
[16:48] <cwillu_at_work> Linux000, there's no special command, it's just lucid, fully up to date on the day the beta is tagged, or a particular iso download if you want a fresh install
[16:48] <claptrap> I still wanna see a rationalization for that change. A real one.
[16:48] <DanaG> Ubuntu?  fail.
[16:48] <Linux000> Dr_Willis: Awwww, I thought it came out this morning
[16:48] <DanaG> "min,max,close" on left.
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> Linux000:  some time today i hear.
[16:49] <claptrap> The beta is out.
[16:49] <claptrap> Release was already posted on webupd8.
[16:49] <KB1JWQ> DanaG: I'm switching to Ubuntu from Mac OS, and it breaks mine too.
[16:49] <rye> Ctrl+D for terminal, Ctrl+W for everything else
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> I just update/upgraded from yesterday and dident even say anything
[16:49] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right. I didn't want to argue about it. I just wanted to know if I should bother working on this at all, but nobody seems to know and I haven't received any replies to my request for a deadline on the u-d ml.
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> servers must of all been up to date yesterday then
[16:49] <rye> and mouse pointing for everything that does not want to get closed by this
[16:49] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: sure, geo load is nice, but where is Portugal? we got 6gb here to offer
[16:50] <Linux000> Claptrap: I thought so, its on http://www.ubuntu.com
[16:50] <DanaG> er, gotta go now.
[16:50] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: They didn't reply to me.
[16:50] <Linux000> What is the program for the bootslpash? Plymouth, right?
[16:50] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: well - as far as *we* know nothing is going to change now. we all work with this assumption.
[16:51] <rye> Linux000, yes, plymouth ... https://pastebin.canonical.com/29432/
[16:51] <rye> oops
[16:51] <claptrap> Linux000: :)
[16:51] <rye> Linux000, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Plymouth
[16:51] <Linux000> thanks, it doesn't want to load on my laptop
[16:51] <Drop_tables> Roughly what time UTC did beta come out?
[16:52] <rye> Linux000, nvidia?
[16:52] <jo-erlend> Drop_tables, it hasn't?
[16:52] <claptrap> Drop_tables: I got the webupd8 post... an hour ago?
[16:52] <Linux000> rye: Intel Integrated, I hate it, compiz blacklisted it.
[16:52] <claptrap> jo-erlend: Yes, it has.
[16:52] <jo-erlend> heh, nice. I was told that the topic here would be changed when the beta was out.
[16:52] <avar> I'm trying to upgrade to 10.04 and I'm getting this error: http://gist.github.com/337802 when I run do-release-upgrade -d
[16:52] <rye> Linux000, o_O
[16:53] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: really?? do you have a direct contact?
[16:53] <rye> Linux000, you definitely need to add your experience to Plymouth testing
[16:53] <BUGabundo_remote> I'm chating with FEUP server admin
[16:53] <Linux000> Drop_Tables: If claptrap is right it was 17:54
[16:53] <Linux000> rye: Will do
[16:53] <claptrap> I dunno if that's exactly when it was, but that's when webupd8 posted about it, soooo.
[16:54] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: I emailed the guys who run releases.ubuntumirror.dei.uc.pt.
[16:57] <markl_> ok somehow my maximize/minimize/close buttons moved to the left side of my window borders - any idea how to move them back to the right side?
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> FAQ #1 :) i bet
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> markl_:  one way - use 'ubuntu-tweak' tool.
[16:58] <ZykoticK9> markl_, http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> theres other ways also.
[16:58] <markl_> is this the new default?  how did this happen in the first place?
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> I made a Alias for the answer.. but cant rember what i called it now on this irc client
[16:59] <Dr_Willis> markl_:  it may or may not be the new default
[16:59] <ZykoticK9> markl_, yes it's the new black ;)
[16:59] <Stargaze> FYI: Beta is available for download => http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[16:59] <markl_> ok if it's the new default i'll leave it
[16:59] <markl_> also, will parted and udisks ever get updated?
[16:59] <markl_> or will they be kept back forever
[16:59] <Dr_Willis> I noticed they dident get updated on one machine.. but did on a 2nd box i had.
[17:00] <markl_> guess that's what i get for starting with alpha 2 :)
[17:00] <DrHalan> markl_: i think you gotta remove libparted. at least thats what i did. there is a new package libparted0 or so
[17:00] <ZykoticK9> markl_, i'm actually not seeing them in Update Manager in beta1
[17:00] <Linux000> To make sure I'm right, plymouth replaced usplash, right? The image right after grub(that used to have a loading bar)
[17:00] <yofel> markl_: update-manager won't update them afaik, use synaptic instead and select both manually for installation, packages need to be removed to update them
[17:00] <ZykoticK9> Linux000, yup
[17:01] <Linux000> ZykoticK9: Thanks
[17:01] <markl_> ok i just did this and it fixed it: sudo apt-get install libparted0
[17:01] <markl_> ty!
[17:01] <yofel> markl_: like DrHalan said, replace libparted -> libparted0 and also remove devicekit-disks for udisks
[17:01] <markl_> this channel is full of usefulness today
[17:02] <DrHalan> markl_: i see this as a "thank you". youre welcome
[17:02] <kklimonda> yofel: shouldn't it be done by the update manager?
[17:03] <yofel> kklimonda: no idea, haven't used u-m in a while, I only notice quite a lot complaining about this here...
[17:03] <markl_> DrHalan: indeed it is :)
[17:04] <yofel> udisks, has conflicts/replaces for devicekit-disks, so it *should* work without user action in u-m, not sure how parted is set up
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: official email is out /topic
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: AFAIK Coimbra has been down for 2 weeks now :(
[17:05] <duffydack> How do I get rid of the "packages kept back - parted udisks" everytime I use apt-get.. They have been there for a while..
[17:06] <BUGabundo_remote> ikonia: can you please update /topic? beta is out
[17:06] <Stargaze> FYI: Beta is available for download => http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: seems those depencies have been like that for a few weeks
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: $ sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade; sudo aptitude full-upgrade and pray
[17:08] <claptrap> Is there any way to know when that fix hits the repo?
[17:08] <tgpraveen12> !info telepathy-gabble
[17:08] <yofel> claptrap: what fix?
[17:08] <claptrap> yofel: For the blacklisted OpenOffice package preventing me from upgrading to Lucid.
[17:09] <yofel> claptrap: which package? openclipart-openoffice.org?
[17:09] <tgpraveen12> Pici: topic change for beta 1 release reqd
[17:09] <claptrap> http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[17:10] <duffydack> BUGabundo_remote, http://pastebin.org/118140
[17:10] <claptrap> yofel: http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[17:11] <duffydack> it went ok
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: GO FOR IT
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> and pray
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> :p
[17:11] <duffydack> now I just want my scrollwheel back in terminal :)
[17:12] <alex_mayorga> anyone else whose bluetooth icon is not showing any paired devices?
[17:13] <hifi> first
[17:13] <hifi> had to :(
[17:13] <Pici> Guess I picked a bad time to get lunch ;)
[17:17] <yofel> claptrap: hm, lemme check
[17:18] <Desciero> I have Alpha 3...how do I upgrade to Beta 1. It's not showing up in the Update manager
[17:19] <kklimonda> Desciero: just do a normal upgrade
[17:19] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: no prob
[17:19] <Desciero> kklimonda: this is my first time upgrading in ubuntu  I have no idea what a "normal upgrade" is
[17:19] <yofel> Desciero: just use update-manager to install updates and you'll have the beta
[17:20] <kklimonda> Desciero: well - just see if there are any upgrades in the update manager and install them
[17:20] <Desciero> I checked for updates all day today
[17:20] <Desciero> nothing is showing up
[17:20] <avar> did you run it with the -d switch?
[17:20] <Desciero> Also, is there somewhere I can see the current version I have?
[17:20] <Desciero> avar: no
[17:20] <Desciero> update manager
[17:21] <yofel> claptrap: ok, I have no idea, I didn't have the package installed here but it installed just fine right now
[17:21] <avar> Desciero: "about ubuntu" in your toolbar?
[17:22] <Pici> Desciero: The alpha1/2/3/beta releases are just arbitrary points in the development process, nothing differenciates them other than the state of the archives during that time, so you aren't going to see anything that says that you're on one alpha versus another.
[17:22] <om26er> Desciero, if you did updates back few days then you are upto date. updates are frozen before the beta
[17:22] <om26er> or a few
[17:23] <Desciero> ok
[17:24] <Desciero> was hoping beta 1 would solve my ATI graphics driver problems
[17:24] <Desciero> bug #494699
[17:24] <Desciero> I've posted in that bug as mattrenfer
[17:24] <Desciero> cannot figure out what to do
[17:25] <xzcvczx> anyone know the command offhand/link to bug that says how to return the buttons to how they are meant to be?
[17:25] <ZykoticK9> xzcvczx, http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[17:25] <xzcvczx> thanks ZykoticK9
[17:26] <ZykoticK9> xzcvczx, not sure about the "how they are meant to be" part - but that's how you can move them to the right side again :)
[17:27] <xzcvczx> ZykoticK9: sarcasm will get you nowhere :P
[17:28] <kklimonda> which theme is the official one? radiance or ambience?
[17:28] <kklimonda> ambiance*
[17:29] <Okidesu> ji think ambi ?
[17:30] <duffydack> for fglrx it says fix released, so is it ok to install, even tho its not in hardware drivers yet
[17:37] <vivid> wow
[17:37] <vivid> the beta page has lies
[17:37] <vivid> excerpt: Three different NVIDIA proprietary drivers are currently available: nvidia-current (190.53), nvidia-173,
[17:37] <LinuxGuy2009> Hi guys Im about to download the beta 1 of lucid and Im wondering if I can use a 4GB flashdrive to install it to and boot from it there so I can actually run it on real hardware. Or is it recomended that I install striaght to a  hard drive like on my Dell Mini 10v netbook?
[17:37] <vivid> apt-cache policy nvidia-current = 195.36.08
[17:37] <vivid> lies
[17:38] <Pici> s/lies/mistakes/
[17:39] <vivid> pretty big mistake imho
[17:39] <Ian_Corne> LinuxGuy2009: that should work
[17:39]  * xzcvczx wonders how many people will use radiance over ambience
[17:40] <jpds> vivid: We're human, hi.
[17:40] <Ian_Corne> but 4gb might be small if you want to actually install alot of applications
[17:40] <KB1JWQ> Hmm.  Picked up a DWA-130 USB wireless card.  Seems that it needs ndiswrapper, but running it dies in Lucid.
[17:40] <vivid> jpds, why not just yank nvidia-current from the repos
[17:40] <MarcoPau> hello, my xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[17:40] <KB1JWQ> Dies in the cli on  sudo modprobe ndiswrapper
[17:41] <xfact_> Well, I am asking this insanely; that I heard Beta 1 is released but when I opened my update manager then it saying 'system is up to date' that means I am already on Beta 1?
[17:41] <Pici> vivid: Whats with the attitude?
[17:41] <MarcoPau> xfact_: yes, they didn't change anything since yesterday at least
[17:41] <vivid> what attitude? are you implying that you can tell my demeanor through your monitor?
[17:41] <LinuxGuy2009> Ok I think Ill go ahead and wipe my Dell Mini 10v and use it. I have 9.04 install backed up with Clonezilla so I should be ok. I just downloaded the alpha 3 and then come here and see beta 1. Now I have to download it again. ahh Oh well. I flipping love the new trash can icon though. Much better than the old orange box. First thing I noticed.
[17:42] <xfact_> MarcoPau, Well, thanks
[17:42] <vivid> all im saying is, its wrong, someone might actually install that and cause damage to their system, thus making it a pretty big mistake
[17:44] <Stargaze> great! lucid booted in less than 1 minute :)
[17:44] <KB1JWQ> Ooh, kernel bug!  http://pastebin.com/DZm70xam
[17:44] <KB1JWQ> Check the end of the dmesg output.
[17:45] <Drop_tables> 1 minute boot? I suggest you add more coal because it sounds like your computers steam pressure is low
[17:48] <Pici> vivid: It looks like there is a new package that is going in as soon as beta freeze is over (should be now) that will fix the problem.
[17:48] <Pici> vivid: see bug 533224
[17:48] <SandGorgon> zsync w.r.t yesterday's build downloads 85% of the iso - has that much changed ?
[17:49] <vivid> well, i fixed my issue with it by installing 190.53 weeks ago
[17:49] <vivid> i just think that it would be good to not include volatile software
[17:49] <vivid> and if you do, to make it very clear what that software has the potential to do
[17:50] <yofel> Pici: shouldn't we have put that into the 'Known Issues'?
[17:50] <Pici> vivid: Well, the restricted drivers aren't included on the CD, but I agree that this should have bypassed the beta freeze.
[17:50] <vivid> what yofel said
[17:52] <Some_Person> How safe would y'all say it would be to update my karmic install to lucid?
[17:53] <czr> hmm. what are the odds of release lucid support hardware that isn't supported in beta1?
[17:53] <Some_Person> Lucid runs terribly on the SD card, most likely because it's very slow, and I'd like to be able to use it more efficiently
[17:53] <czr> supporting even.
[17:53] <Okidesu> Some_Person, emm depends :) make a USB with unetbootin just in case ;)
[17:53] <yofel> czr: I don't think there will be much difference
[17:54] <Some_Person> Okidesu, unetbootin?
[17:54] <czr> yofel, right. sad though. I was hoping but.. no go :-)
[17:54] <yofel> czr: which hardware btw?
[17:54] <czr> neither the embedded NIC nor the WLAN is recognized
[17:54] <Okidesu> Some_Person, it uses the live iso and creates a bootable USB :) if you have one
[17:54] <czr> hp mini 5102
[17:54] <Okidesu> Some_Person, also you can test Lucid that way i think :)
[17:54] <Some_Person> Closest thing I have is the SD card I have lucid installed to now
[17:55] <LinuxGuy2009> Actually I had one other question before I start testing out lucid. I really would love to test on my desktop machine too. Ive been on Ubuntu for 2 years now so I know my way around, but have never tried installing a testing release along side an existing installation. Is that a pretty easy thing to do in the install options? I mean Ive seen options for it Ive just never attempted it. I think I might just do a fresh install on my Dell
[17:55] <czr> yofel, an hp netbook more or less. atom-based.
[17:55] <Okidesu> weird i had no updates since beta release o_o is that normal ?
[17:55] <czr> also, the installer in beta1 failed to automatically setup LVM + dmcrypt (it tried to mount swap but failed), using alternate.
[17:56] <yofel> czr: can't say without the exact hw info, but if you have a broadcom wireless card maybe you just need the driver from the repos, that it doesn't recognize the NIC sucks though :/
[17:56] <yofel> czr: that is a known issue
[17:56] <czr> yofel, any hints on which repo to use? I think it's broadcom.
[17:57] <czr> although I'm waiting for the install to finish, the netbook doesn't want me to switch to another VT so can't run lspci yet.
[17:58] <yofel> czr: I'm not sure, the only driver package I know is bcmwl-kernel-source
[17:58] <czr> ah. it was my fault. need to press two buttons and a number key in order to get Alt+Fn :-).
[17:58] <Okidesu> yofel, any updates since yesterday >
[17:58] <yofel> Okidesu: not here
[17:58] <czr> eth is marvell 4381. wlan is bcom device 4353.
[17:59] <czr> hmm. at least the package description doesn't indicate that it supports 4353. but thanks for the hint.
[17:59] <SandGorgon> zsync w.r.t yesterday's build downloads 85% of the iso - has that much changed ?
[17:59] <czr> having no connectivity sucks though. no easy way to transfer packages.
[18:00] <Some_Person> update-manager -d will update me to lucid, right?
[18:00] <xfact_> Can anyone tell me in which folder all the icons of Ubuntu I will get?
[18:01] <KB1JWQ> Is that kernel problem I've linked in the pastebin above (ndiswrapper) fixable, or shuold I go grab a different adapter?
[18:01] <czr> yofel, thanks anyhow, I'll get back once the install finishes..
[18:01] <Pici> xfact_: /usr/share/icons
[18:01] <Stargaze> xfact, try ~/.icons
[18:01] <bjwebb> meh why is uk colemak keyboard messed up
[18:01] <Some_Person> Bug! update-manager says "This is still a ALPHA release." for lucid
[18:01] <yofel> Some_Person: yes, it will show that lucid is available to upgrade to
[18:02] <mvo> Some_Person: fix uploaded already
[18:02] <mvo> but not in yet
[18:02] <Some_Person> Will upgrading force me to restart at any point? devede is encoding a DVD
[18:03] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, you will know afterwards.
[18:03] <mvo> Some_Person: it will not force you, but there may be bugs, so if its very imporant to you, better wait
[18:04] <jo-erlend> it might force you to remove the software that's running though, which may have side effects, though it shouldn't.
[18:05] <Some_Person> Considering my slow internet connection though, devede will probably be done by the time it actually starts installing anything
[18:05] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to take the risk? Lucid isn't very good yet anyway.
[18:06] <Some_Person> I've been using it from an SD card and it seems not too terrible
[18:06] <jo-erlend> that's what I thought too, until I'd tried it for a while. Lots and lots of regressions, though in my situation, it takes a while for them to show.
[18:06] <Some_Person> Besides, I'd like to see how it is without the slow SD card screwing things up
[18:07] <Some_Person> What's the worst that can happen anyway? I'm forced to reinstall karmic? not so bad
[18:07] <NoReflex> anyonw know why conky won't display the IP address of a interface in Lucid Lynx? I'm getting "No Address" even though the interface exists and has a valid IP address
[18:08] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, the worst thing that can happen is that you loose all your data and have to reinstall and start everything over.
[18:08] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I usually format when I install from scratch anyway. I have everything I need backed up
[18:09] <bjwebb> how do i change the side the close, minimise etc. are on?
[18:09] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's very unlikely that upgrade to lucid will kill any of your hardware like we experienced in the past, but it is not released. If the computer and your data is important to you, don't upgrade.
[18:09] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, gconf-editor. But you should consider that some future version of Ubuntu might want to experiment with using the space for something else.
[18:10] <Some_Person> bjwebb: You can use my PPA, which puts them back in their karmic positions
[18:10] <jo-erlend> hehehe
[18:10] <Stargaze> maybe this is of some importance to others: embedded video's did not play in the chromium-brower, until i added the required video plugins in Firefox
[18:10] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: okay
[18:11] <avar> hneegh, lynx installing OO again
[18:11] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, open gconf-editor and locate Apps / Metacity / General
[18:11] <Some_Person> bjwebb: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/light-themes
[18:11] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, set button_layout to menu:maximize,minimize,close
[18:12] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, the colon separates right from left, so that config will place the menu-button on the left and the other three on the right.
[18:13] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: thanks
[18:13] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to create a PPA for that? It seems almost like a hostile action to me.
[18:13] <bjwebb> its a kinda interesting decision they made to change that
[18:13] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: So that they can be in their karmic order (menu:minimize,maximize,close) without graphical problems
[18:13] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, ... to say the least.
[18:13] <bjwebb> lol
[18:14] <xzcvczxx> anyone know in empathy if there is a way to make the irc windows get tabbed? as at the moment everything else tabs except irc
[18:14] <bjwebb> ó áßßßßßããá
[18:14] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: The only other option is to put minimize in the middle, which I personally don't like
[18:15] <lullabud> i'm so disappointed that gnibbles isn't supported in 10.04 :'(
[18:16]  * lullabud kids
[18:16] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's hostile to demand root control over a user system in order to help them change a gconf key.
[18:16] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: it feels so "unintuitive", but so much of that is probably learned
[18:16] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, I agree. It was a very strange process and result. But the reason, as I understand it, is that he wants to have the option to experiment with the free space in a later version of Ubuntu.
[18:16] <Losha> lullabud: looks like it is: http://ns2.canonical.com/lucid/games/gnibbles
[18:17] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: but surely the same free space would be availible on the left?
[18:17] <bjwebb> nevermind, we shall see
[18:17] <lullabud> Losha: i was just kidding, haha, i guess some people really do take that seriously though.
[18:17] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It depends on what the user wants. If they don't mind minimize in the middle instead of on the left, gconf on its own is fine. If they want the same order as karmic, and don't mind a graphical glitch, gconf is also fine. If they want it to look perfect and have the same order as karmic, however, the PPA is the only option
[18:17] <Losha> bjwebb: if you have to learn it, it can hardly be described as 'intuitive'...
[18:17] <lullabud> Losha: i just got an alert during install that it wasn't... that's why i mentioned it.
[18:18] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, so that you can gain access at some later point in time? Hostile.
[18:18] <bjwebb> Losha: well, that's the thing. i can't really say what is intuitive, because i've learned to always expect it on the right
[18:18] <Losha> lullabud: given there'a a package, that sounds like a bug. You can report it, if you don't mind the teasing :-)
[18:18] <KB1JWQ> I'll bite.  Why does launchpad tell me that  KB1JWQ's karma has expired?
[18:18] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How does a few modifed PNGs and a gconf setting let me "gain access"?
[18:18] <bjwebb> damn, what is up with compiz
[18:19] <lullabud> Losha: but it's in universe... are the universe apps supported by canonical?
[18:19] <Losha> bjwebb: that seems like a good reason to object to having it moved, actually...
[18:19] <Some_Person> Besides, Mark Shuttleworth thanked me for creating it
[18:19] <Pici> KB1JWQ: Karma decreases over time.
[18:19] <yofel> KB1JWQ: o.O, maybe ask in #launchpad
[18:19] <yofel> lullabud: they  are not
[18:20] <ilor> hi, does anyone know why launching konversation (in lucid) starts up nepomuk, vituoso, a "desktop search indexing" info and the kitchen sink? I just wanted to start an irc client...
[18:20] <lullabud> yofel: that's what i thought.
[18:20] <KB1JWQ> Pici: I set up the account within the last 7 days and have registered bugs, commented, etc. :-)
[18:20] <yofel> !universe | lullabud
[18:20] <Losha> lullabud: not sure, but *someone* went to the trouble of packaging it, I'm sure they'd like to know if it's broken...
[18:20] <lullabud> ubottu: thanks ubotu!  you're the best.
[18:20] <Pici> KB1JWQ: Odd.
[18:21] <lullabud> Losha: it's not broken, it's just that it's not supported by canonical
[18:21] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Another advantage of the PPA is that it modifes the global default gconf setting instead of just for one user
[18:21] <Stargaze> Some_Person, are you a MOTU?
[18:21] <Losha> lullabud: so it actually works? In that case I misunderstood...
[18:21] <Some_Person> Stargaze: no
[18:22] <Stargaze> are there any MOTU here?
[18:22] <Losha> lullabud: Error: I am only a programmer, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[18:22] <lullabud> Losha: oh yeah, i just got an alert during my upgrade that it was no longer supported.  there's not a problem
[18:22] <lullabud> lol
[18:22] <yofel> Stargaze: you should find motus in #ubuntu-motu ;)
[18:22] <Some_Person> Stargaze: try #ubuntu-motu
[18:23] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, you're reserving the right to modify critical software in order to change those PNGs and gconf settings. Forever, no less. That's hostile.
[18:23] <Stargaze> anywayz... ;)
[18:23] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to add a repo for a one-shot change?
[18:24] <yofel> jo-erlend: there's nothing hostile about it, you can view the changes on the ppa page, it's all open source
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Again, just modifying the gconf setting does not fix the graphical problem when you set it to karmic's order
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Furthermore, how exactly is this "hostile"?
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: If you want to see my modifications, you can. The source is released
[18:25] <jo-erlend> demanding the right to make future changes to the system, when you know it won't be necessary, is hostile imho.
[18:25] <Pici> jo-erlend: Er. What?
[18:25] <trism> jo-erlend: no one demands anything, you can remove the ppa whenever you want, and you are not required to update when new updates are released
[18:25] <jo-erlend> then, every time there is an upgrade for ubuntu, the user will have to review your source files?
[18:25] <yofel> jo-erlend: huh? the user doesn't need to add the ppa...
[18:25] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: You're not required to add the PPA
[18:25] <Pici> jo-erlend: Perhaps you aren't sure what a PPA is.
[18:26] <jo-erlend> Pici, I am.
[18:26] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: If you don't want its changes, don't add the PPA
[18:26] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then I'm confused.
[18:26] <avar> Ubuntu changes my system every time I run aptitude upgrade. Do you think that's hostile?
[18:26] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Under your logic, PPAs shouldn't exist
[18:26] <mgolisch> how do i get the addressbar back in nautilus?
[18:27] <mgolisch> so i can click it and enter/alter the path manualy
[18:27] <Some_Person> mgolisch: ctrl-l
[18:27] <Pici> jo-erlend: Do you mean its hostile because its changing *user* gconf settings? If so, then the original ubuntu-light-themes package has the same problem.
[18:27] <jo-erlend> I used a bit harsh words. I didn't mean to imply that Some_Person was a hostile person, only that recommending someone to add a repo in order to change a gconf key is hostile, since it most likely will open the system unnecessarily to harmful changes that only newbies wouldnt be aware of.
[18:27] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How does adding my PPA cause "harmful changes"?
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, wouldn't Some_Person be able to "upgrade" my sshd?
[18:28] <Pici> jo-erlend: The same could be said for any PPA or even the official Ubuntu repos.
[18:28] <Some_Person> Besides, why would any newbie be using lucid right now?
[18:28] <Pici> jo-erlend: Why would he do that?
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, right. That's why they should be used with caution, and not for small one-shot changes.
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, because he wanted some zombies perhaps?
[18:29] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It is not a "one shot change", unless you don't mind minimize in the middle or a graphical problem
[18:29] <trism> jo-erlend: the update manager will tell you if the update comes from a specific ppa
[18:30] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then PPAs shouldn't exist?
[18:30] <jo-erlend> lots of people will want to change the buttons to their original placement. By recommending the addition of a repo in order to change it, he's opening newbies systems to the possibility of new attack vectors.
[18:30] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Go through my source code, and find me the "attack vectors"
[18:31] <Pici> jo-erlend: Er, its not like just anyone can put code into that repo.
[18:31] <jo-erlend> Pici, no, they should exist. They should be used only if you really trust the source and only when they're necessary.
[18:31] <yofel> Some_Person: he means if the user adds your ppa and you upload another package later
[18:31] <Pici> jo-erlend: So if a person doesn't want to use a PPA they don't have to.
[18:31] <Pici> Some_Person isn't forcing anyone to do anything.
[18:32] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Would I be better off hosting the PNGs somewhere else and having users manually copy them into their system?
[18:32] <jo-erlend> newbie adds Some_Persons repo because he doesn't like the placement of the titlebar buttons. He doesn't know that Some_Person can add a new package for sshd in the future and doesn't consider it a risk, since it's such a small change. A year goes by, and he has kept the repo. Some_Person becomes angry at the ubuntu community and decides to make a few adjustments... We have had attacks only recently.
[18:33] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I wouldn't do such a thing
[18:33] <Some_Person> I'
[18:33] <jo-erlend> right, and I should trust my personal life to someone on irc who calls themselves "some person". That's security...
[18:33] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then don't.
[18:33] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Are we better off trusting "jo-erland"?
[18:34] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Really why would a newbie monkey with ppa's? and even if they did if they did not notice that sshd was being upgraded that is just poor administration. Really they should just put on the ppa install what they want then disable it.
[18:34] <Pici> PPAs have always been unsupported.
[18:34] <Some_Person> jo-erland: On the PPA, I have my real name and my real email address. What more do you want?
[18:34] <jo-erlend> I don't distrust you.  I'm saying the actions are hostile, because they potentially are and you cannot be trusted.
[18:34] <avar> jo-erlend: This channel is really not the right venue to argue that everyone with an APT repository is a hostile person.
[18:34] <Stargaze> that sounds like windows logic ;)
[18:35] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, I gave the solution right here, on IRC, in a few lines without reserving the right to change his system.
[18:35] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Again, either you put minimize in the middle or have a graphical glitch
[18:35] <jo-erlend> avar, it was a concrete reply to a concrete suggestion. I'm not arguing anything, except to respond to the replies I got from it.
[18:36] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, not true. Most themes are not dependent on titlebar buttons placements.
[18:36] <DanaG> hmm, maybe a better idea: don't have them add the repo; have them just download the one .deb file.
[18:36] <Pici> jo-erlend: This one is.
[18:36] <Some_Person> jo-erland: True. Try it yourself on your system
[18:36] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: That is fine and dandy, but I doubt you took into consideration the image differences in the buttons, Some_Person did and made a ppa for it.
[18:36] <yofel> jo-erlend: the titlebar buttons are
[18:36] <DanaG> My solution: gconf, and don't use the (ugly anyway) theme.
[18:36] <Some_Person> jo-erland: This theme is dependent on position
[18:37] <avar> How about this: Stop picking on Some_Person for providing a valuable service /via standard means/ to the community.
[18:37] <BoondoKlife> I just use tweak-ui and a different theme if someone at my business wants it back in the other location
[18:37] <BoondoKlife> But I have used Some_Person's solution and think it is great!
[18:37] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, I understand that. It's still the wrong way to do it, especially if he doesn't tell the newbie what the consequences are.
[18:37] <avar> You can't provide updates in a reasonable way by having people monkeypatch their system or manually install a .deb, hence PPAs!
[18:37] <jo-erlend> DanaG, I agree completely.
[18:38] <arthurjohnson> Okay, quick question about Lucid Lynx.  I'm setting up a maintenance schedule to publish, and will I be able to go from 9.04 to 10.10?
[18:38] <jo-erlend> DanaG, well, except I think the theme actually looks nice, except for the dependence on the buttons placement.s
[18:38] <h00k> arthurjohnson: no, you have to hit 9.10 inbetween
[18:38] <Pici> arthurjohnson: No.  You need to upgrade to 9.10 and 10.04 inbetween.
[18:38] <vivid> the theme does look nice, and Some_Person's package works
[18:38] <arthurjohnson> h00k: Damn, okay.  Thanks for the information
[18:38] <Stargaze> imho, a newbie does not notice the difference4
[18:38] <jo-erlend> arthurjohnson, you will be able to upgrade, but you will probably have to upgrade step-wise through the releases in between.
[18:38] <h00k> Ah, yeah, and 10.04 in there, too.
[18:38] <BoondoKlife> arthurjohnson: But it should be painless really, just update to one then the next
[18:38] <DanaG> I find the scroll bars, in particular, ugly.
[18:39] <DanaG> Even "Nodoka" does rounded scrollbars far more nicely than the new themes.
[18:39] <Some_Person> jo-erland: I agree. The theme is nice. The PPA changes the theme to be dependent on the old karmic positions. Would you not agree that that would be useful to people?'
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> What about 8.04, can you jump to 10.04?
[18:39] <Pici> arthurjohnson: LTS releases can be upgraded to the next LTS though, so 8.04 can been upgraded directly to 10.04
[18:39] <jo-erlend> vivid, the package is not in question at all. I'm sure he's done a good job. Recommending that people should add a repo for it, is what I'm reacting to.
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: Thanks, you answered my question!
[18:39] <vivid> jo-erlend, i didnt add the repo, i just installed his deb
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: As I was typing it!  You must be psychotic!
[18:39] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's very nice if you use tab so that I get highlighted.
[18:39] <DanaG> My policy: I always, always read changelogs before installing updates.
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: er... Psychic, yeah...
[18:40] <jo-erlend> vivid, right. But he recommended adding the repo.
[18:40] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: sorry
[18:40] <vivid> but, the repo, last time i looked at it, only contains the one package
[18:40] <Pici> jo-erlend: Like I said before PPAs have always been unsupported.  It is always up to the user to decide whether they want to install this potentially untested software.
[18:40] <vivid> so i really dont see a problem in adding it
[18:40] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, don't be sorry. I'm not out to get you. :)
[18:40] <vivid> user freedom is user freedom
[18:41] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It kinda feels like it at the moment
[18:41] <Pici> vivid: I spoke to the developer earlier regarding the nvidia-graphics-driver package, its waiting in the upload queue, so it should be built soon.
[18:41] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: He could just as easily add a backdoor into the .deb itself, at least with a ppa you can ( if you decide to ) easily confirm that the source for the package was indeed him.
[18:41] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, perhaps you simply didn't consider the potential security issue with your recommendation. There is nothing wrong with that. We all learn all the time.
[18:41] <BoondoKlife> Some_Person: jo-erlend has been extra cranky about the buttons this morning =P
[18:41] <vivid> Pici, awesome, 195.36.15?
[18:41] <jo-erlend> Jordan_U, not as easily. Not at all.
[18:41] <Pici> vivid: Yes.
[18:41] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, that is true. :)
[18:42] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, except for the fact that it's 19:41. :)
[18:42] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I had 3 options to release my modified theme: 1) PPA. 2) .deb package on X random site. 3) A bunch of .PNGs and instructions on how to integrate them into the system. Which would you prefer?
[18:42] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: I got on around 11AM EST and you were in full swing lol
[18:42] <vivid> lol
[18:42] <Stargaze> i am cranky because i still cannot unlock my login screen settings
[18:42] <avar> Some_Person: Where's this PPA and what does it do? I'd like to install it (maybe)
[18:42] <vivid> Stargaze, me either, still looks like karmic for me
[18:43] <czr> hmm. what's the esiest way to reset the password on lucid dmcrypted install? (the user password, not dmcrypt)
[18:43] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: What do you mean? When you add the ppa its ppa key is added as well , from launchpad's trusted keyserver. I can go onto his launchpad page and verify his pgp key and only someone with his private ssh key can upload new source packages to the ppa.
[18:43] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: wow I take that back it was around 8:45AM here
[18:43] <Some_Person> avar: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/light-themes
[18:43] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, but that's really not related to this issue at hand. The issue here, is that we actually have had attacks on Ubuntu users in near past, and that adding this kind of repo and advertising it to newbies would be a perfect attack vector is you wanted a lot of free ubuntu zombies.
[18:43] <avar> Some_Person: sweet
[18:43] <vivid> the only issue i see is posting the ppa here might be frowned upon
[18:43] <avar> Why would it be frowned upon?
[18:44] <Some_Person> vivid: By who?
[18:44] <vivid> i dunno, sometimes people dont like "advertising"
[18:44] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Nah just showing Some_Person it is nothing personal
[18:44] <vivid> personally i like the package, mac style buttons drive me crazy and their entire user interface is horrible
[18:44] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it is nothing personal. I'm sure you didn't intend to misuse this possibility, but it would be a perfect way to "infect" newbies with a repo in order to gain access to their systems later.
[18:44] <avar> vivid: A fix to an issue people are complaining about isn't like spamming viagra or something. This is perfectly pertinent to the channel.
[18:45] <Stargaze> paranoid
[18:45] <jo-erlend> Stargaze, would you trust any it-guy who wasn't a bit paranoid?
[18:46] <Stargaze> can't be too cautious, jo-erlend
[18:46] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I have no plans to put any other packages in that repo, unless a new version of light-themes is released
[18:46] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: While I agree that ppas can be used to attack users, I disagree that they are any less safe than any other way of providing non-trivial modifications / services to users.
[18:46] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: But there is paranoia and then there is prudent caution. Paranoia is often destructive.
[18:46] <jo-erlend> avar, I agree. At the same time, a PPA like this would be a perfect trojan for Ubuntu.
[18:47] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, right. I think this is one of those times where you have to be very cautious.
[18:47] <h00k> You can never save a system from the user. If they add an untrusted PPA, they should know what is there and what they're installing.
[18:47] <Stargaze> so if a trojan is discovered, we know who the author was ;)
[18:48] <jo-erlend> h00k, do you see the possibility of Some_Person getting hacked, thereby giving the attacker the opportunity to upgrade users sshd, for instance?
[18:48] <avar> jo-erlend: Holy shit dude, if only there was some way to easily guarantee that packages were signed + review them before install!
[18:48] <avar> :)
[18:48] <h00k> !language | avar
[18:49] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Granted, installing something on your system should never be taken lightly. Which really takes us back to if an end user, newbie or not, does not inspect what is being installed they are just being careless. Which is why windoes has so many issues.
[18:49] <avar> This is no more of a problem than thousands of already existing ppas in wide use
[18:49] <vivid> well, i would never recommend anyone use my ppa :p
[18:49] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: They'd have to get my GPG key password
[18:49] <vivid> but his is a totally different story, and i went through the entire deb package and saw nothing wrong with its contents that could be abusive
[18:49] <jo-erlend> this is getting out of hand: I simply meant to say that a one shot change of some PNGs and a gconf  key shouldn't be advertised as a good reason to add a PPA, because that PPA opens up a whole new world for devious hackers intent on harming you.
[18:50] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: launchpad only accepts signed packages in order to prevent such things
[18:50] <h00k> ^ this is true
[18:50] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How would you rather have me release it then?
[18:50] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, what changes do you think you'll make to the users systems in the future that warrants a repo for it?
[18:51] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, a deb. A script. A repo if you must, but first of all, as a howto.
[18:51] <Some_Person> jo-erland: New versions of light-thtmes
[18:51] <Some_Person> s/thtmes/themes
[18:51] <vivid> hopefully new versions of light-themes will deprecate that ppa :p
[18:51] <avar> It's also just easier and less prone to error to tell everyone to install a PPA than rely on thousands of users manually copy/pasting some gconf line
[18:52] <jo-erlend> avar, right. Just trust Some_Person on the internet to have your best interests in mind.
[18:52] <Some_Person> vivid: I hope you're right, but if they do release a new version with buttons still in the odd positions, I can provide a new package
[18:52] <vivid> just look at the package diff and you should be able to tell its safe to install, ill be honest, i didnt trust him
[18:53] <avar> jo-erlend: No, like I pointed out these packages are signed and debian/ubuntu provides easy facilities to review things before you install them.
[18:53] <Stargaze> windows & mac users do not always know what happens under the hood, and they even no access to the source, not even potentially
[18:54] <Stargaze> how paranoid does that make a user?
[18:54] <vish> the discussion here is getting a bit off topic for +1
[18:54] <h00k> A script is a terrible idea. That's the whole reason we have a repository.
[18:54] <jo-erlend> yes, most people who want to change the titlebar buttons, who can't do it manually, will be very technically competent enough to see the security issues... </sarcasm>
[18:54] <vivid> thats true, but knowledgeable users have already checked it out and if there were security issues it would have been reported
[18:56] <vivid> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40962451/light-themes_<IP_ADDRESS>_<IP_ADDRESS>-1~ppa.diff.gz
[18:56] <vivid> you can see that its text changes and png changes, unless you can hide a trojan in a png its safe
[18:57] <jo-erlend> vivid, reported to where?
[18:57] <vivid> good question
[18:57] <vish> jo-erlend: you can report it to launchpad
[18:57] <Some_Person> Look, even Mark Shuttleworth said "Sam, thanks for making the PPA, and I encourage folks who prefer that layout to use it"
[18:57] <vivid> maybe the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page
[18:57] <jonnor> Its actually not about that. It should be in our to actually teach users about security. We should teach best practice in every aspect. Especially since the user vector is the most prominent one.
[18:58] <vish> Some_Person: dont take jo-erlend's comments personally ;)
[18:58] <Pici> jo-erlend: Report a bug to launchpad saying that it doesn't warn users sufficiently of risks installing PPAs
[18:58] <arand> Or the launchpad channel here on irc, it seems to be rather resonsive.
[18:58] <Some_Person> vish: I'm not
[18:58] <jo-erlend> vivid, you're talking present! That's the main concern... A year from now, the repo would still be active on many users computers if he had advertised it heavily enough... One an attacker gets root access to a computer for a little while, no security advise in the world will help you.
[18:59] <Pici> jo-erlend: The same issue could be with any of the motu's computers.
[18:59] <jo-erlend> Pici, right. The less repos you add, the better.
[18:59] <Pici> jo-erlend: Actually more people have upload access to the official ubuntu repositories  then the people who have access to Some_Person's PPA.
[19:00] <vivid> lol
[19:00] <avar> yay, my first 10.04 bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rpm/+bug/542115
[19:00] <jo-erlend> Pici, and you don't feel that Some_Person is less likely to harm me than Canonical?
[19:00] <vivid> funny this is, currently official ubuntu repos present more harm to users than his ppa does
[19:00] <vivid> thing*
[19:00]  * h00k sighs
[19:01] <Pici> jo-erlend: I think the entire thing is a non-issue.
[19:01] <jo-erlend> vivid, a trojan never harms in advance, does it? It stays silent until the attacker needs it.
[19:01] <vish> jo-erlend: the same can be said for _any_ ppa , why is this being discussed?
[19:01] <jonnor> vish: I think thats the reason he is bringing it up. :)
[19:01] <bjwebb> meh
[19:01] <Pici> meh indeed.
[19:01] <avar> übermeh
[19:01] <bjwebb> Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
[19:01] <vivid> well, he can trojan my pc
[19:01] <h00k> doubleubermeh
[19:01] <vivid> go for it
[19:01] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Under what conditions is a PPA justified in your opinion?
[19:02] <bjwebb> but, of course xorg.conf has nearly nothing these daysi, so where do i start?
[19:02] <Pici> avar: eww, rpm.
[19:02] <vish> triples h00k's meh :)
[19:02] <jo-erlend> Pici, I'm unable to comprehend why you won't give someone access to replace your software a year from now because you're displeased with the placement of the titlebar buttons at this point in time.
[19:02] <avar> Pici: Yeah, no idea why I had that installed, but I filed a bug anyway :)
[19:03] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Any new version released in the ubuntu repositories will replace the version provided by the PPA
[19:03] <Pici> jo-erlend: I don't add PPAs from random people.  I prefer to look at the code first.
[19:03] <vivid> bjwebb, you can create one if you really want to
[19:03] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, for software, where bugs might present security issues that must be resolved, for instance, or showstopper bugs that must get squashed. I don't see how a change of PNGs and a gconf key would ever have to be upgraded in the future.
[19:03] <vivid> bjwebb, Xorg -configure
[19:03] <jo-erlend> Pici, forever?
[19:03] <bjwebb> vivid: is that gonna help though?
[19:03] <Pici> jo-erlend: No, but I read the changelogs for every package upgrade that occurs.
[19:03] <DanaG> As far as I'm concerned, Mark Shuttleworth is no longer "benevolent" dictator, if he's the one breaking people's buttons.
[19:04] <vivid> no idea bjwebb, i had to restore mine because of a different issue
[19:04] <DanaG> I'd like to go to his computer and forcibly rearrange his keyboard.
[19:04] <vivid> lol
[19:04] <DanaG> ... and then map it so that the keys act properly for their new locations.
[19:04] <jo-erlend> Pici, this point in time is irrelevant. If this _was_ an attack, the source would be beautiful and safe so that the users wouldn't suspect anything and wouldn't have any reason to deactivate the repo. Then, in a year, or whenever he felt like it, he would just make an upgrade to some critical part of your system and have his way with your computer.
[19:05] <Pici> jo-erlend: That is the case for any PPA regardless of its content.
[19:05] <jo-erlend> Pici, the change logs? You mean the description of the change instead of the change itself?
[19:05] <jo-erlend> Pici, yes. That's why it shouldn't be used carelessly.
[19:05] <Pici> jo-erlend: Yes, and I realize that those are just text. But I trust the people from whom I'm installing software from.
[19:06]  * h00k hands Pici Greeting_Card.exe
[19:06] <Pici> Anyway, I think we've beaten this horse enough.  We're all entitled to our own opinions.
[19:06] <Pici> h00k: Thanks! Its not even my birthday!
[19:06] <vivid> well, we can beat a horse after its been beaten to death
[19:06] <jo-erlend> Pici... That scares me.
[19:06] <h00k> Pici: always thinking of you!
[19:07]  * Stargaze touched by so much love :')
[19:07] <vivid> <3
[19:08] <DanaG> "oh, it's just cosmetic"
[19:08] <DanaG> Or even easier: I'd go xrandr -x.  mirrors screen horizontally.
[19:08] <DanaG> to reset: xrandr -o 0
[19:09] <sterz> hi guys
[19:09] <sterz> is there a way to install eclipse from repos without having installed openjdk? (it comes bundled)
[19:09] <jo-erlend> DanaG, right. I tried making the point with qwery vs dvorak earlier, but that was regarded as trolling, since moving a keyboard button is much different from changing a window button :>
[19:09] <sterz> oh i also have sun jdk & sun jre installed from repos
[19:09]  * sterz uses lucid
[19:09] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: it is, sorry if you don't see the difference.
[19:10] <bjwebb> how do i find out what driver xorg is using?
[19:10] <kklimonda> bjwebb: you can check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[19:10] <avar> bjwebb: /var/log/X*log
[19:10] <yofel> sterz: I think you'll have to install the headless libs at least
[19:11] <vivid> brace for impact
[19:11] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, I see that changing to dvorak would be much more useful and that it would also be very harmful to the users if it was forced upon them.
[19:11] <yofel> sterz: I tried it once but it seems like openjdk is a hard depens for some package eclipse depends on :/
[19:12] <sterz> yofel, but eclipse tends to mess up with both jdk right?
[19:12] <h00k> vivid: heh.
[19:12] <sterz> at least in karmic it did
[19:12] <yofel> sterz: check with galternatives that all java libs are provided by sun-java6
[19:12] <DanaG> oopsie... that wedged my GPU.
[19:12] <sterz> yofel, maybe i should install from source
[19:12] <yofel> sterz: yes, it doesn't work too well with openjdk :/
[19:12] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, I do not, however, see the difference between that and changing the positions of "A" and "L", since you'd be using your little fingers anyway. It would simply be a change of hands. You'd easily adjust to it, people tell me.
[19:12] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: sorry but if we decide not to make any change that is inconvinient for our users we can as good just decide to stop developing Ubuntu at all.
[19:13] <yofel> sterz: that would work too
[19:13] <h00k> Perhaps this discussion could be taken elsewhere
[19:13] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, ... I'm advertising not changing the stuff that works, and instead focus on the stuff that doesn't work.
[19:14] <vivid> everyone here loves ubuntu, we should focus on that
[19:14] <DanaG> And it was not an "opt-in" change... it was FORCIBLY changed.
[19:14] <DanaG> That's what's bad.
[19:14] <DanaG> Forcibly changing anyone's settings... is very rarely ever good.
[19:15] <mc44> DanaG: virtually every change to a new release is a "forced" change not and opt-in change
[19:15] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: but everything "works" in the usability departament
[19:15] <DanaG> Even notify-osd was just a matter of taste, not a matter of "great, where the hell did the buttons go?"
[19:15] <DanaG> My dad gets confused every time he tries to use my mom's mac... tries to close the window with the button on the right (the "shade" button).
[19:16] <vivid> notify-osd got a lot of frowns iirc
[19:16] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: usability team is supposed to create something new and exciting. if they believe that for doing that they have to move window controls to the left so be it.
[19:16]  * arand still frowns
[19:17] <Andre_Gondim> where I can find the new Ubuntu font?
[19:17] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right... But since all usability tests in the real world have shown this to be a bad move, and none I know of, have shown it to be a good move, I have to conclude it's a bad move... But that's just me, it seems.
[19:17] <h00k> ta-da! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[19:17] <DanaG> And they've never even really given even a "bad" reason for the change.
[19:17] <DanaG> It's just "we changed it, so blah."
[19:17] <Pici> Andre_Gondim: Its not finished.
[19:17] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: huh? there have been tests other than people complaining you can link to?
[19:18] <Andre_Gondim> Pici, ok
[19:18] <jo-erlend> DanaG, I only recently got one. It's in case the design team wants to use the right hand side of the window for something else in some future release of Ubuntu.
[19:18] <DanaG> So, they should change it then, not now!
[19:18] <DanaG> I could turn that around: are there tests that show it GOOD to move? =þ
[19:18] <Some_Person> Holy crap, this is probably not good
[19:18] <Pici> Folks, the conversation here is supposed to be for support, and since beta1 was just released we really should be keeping it clear for that. #ubuntu-offtopic is available for chatter.
[19:18] <Some_Person> My battery died while it was upgrading from karmic to lucid
[19:19] <kklimonda> DanaG: apparently there have been if they convinced Shuttleworth
[19:19] <avar> "System upgrade is complete." -> moment of truth
[19:19]  * avar restarts
[19:19] <Some_Person> It was at the part where it was downloading stuff
[19:19] <DanaG> speaking of arguments: http://www.techeye.net/software/amd-and-nvidia-bitchfight-over-open-source-support =þ
[19:19] <DanaG> that article's title is awesome.
[19:19] <Pici> Sepaking of offtopic
[19:19] <Pici> speaking too.
[19:19] <Pici> !ot
[19:19] <vivid> totally off-topic, but i feel we need a change of mood http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2010/01/29/nextgenhacker101-owes-me-a-new-monitor.aspx
[19:19] <h00k> ...
[19:20] <arand> Some_Person: Died as in computer forced shutdown?
[19:20] <Pici> Guys, please.
[19:20] <vivid> sorry
[19:20] <yofel> Some_Person: if it was only downloading, then just run 'sudo apt-get clean' to clear the (maybe corrupted) package cache and start again
[19:20] <Some_Person> arand: Well, yes. The battery ran out of power
[19:20] <He4dShOt> sera
[19:20] <Some_Person> update-manager says it can only do a "partial upgrade"
[19:20] <yofel> Some_Person: BAD idea
[19:20] <kklimonda> DanaG: ATI has implemented KMS in their fglrx driver?
[19:20] <He4dShOt> ops
[19:21] <DanaG> no, but they have in the open driver.
[19:21] <Some_Person> yofel: What should I do?
[19:21] <DanaG> Oh yeah, a more on-topic thing:
[19:21] <yofel> Some_Person: ah, you're /etc/apt/sources.list might have lucid entries now, make sure to change everything back to karmic and try to upgrade again
[19:21] <DanaG> when I use a non-ubuntu-official kernel, I get no plymouth splash.
[19:21] <h00k> Some_Person: don't forget to use aptitude and not apt-get!
[19:21] <kklimonda> DanaG: they or community?
[19:21] <yofel> Some_Person: s/you're/your/
[19:22] <DanaG> ATI has some of their own employees employed specifically to work on the open driver.
[19:22] <Some_Person> yes, it does have lucid entries
[19:22] <kklimonda> DanaG: sweet
[19:22] <jo-erlend> DanaG, if they haven't changed it now, I really hope they won't, since I'm working on screencasts.
[19:22] <KB1JWQ> Got it sorted, Pici
[19:22] <Pici> KB1JWQ: What was it?
[19:22] <DanaG> Instead of a splash screen, I get a black screen and "ureadahead main process (525) terminated with status 5".
[19:22] <kklimonda> DanaG: why do you use vanilla kernel?
[19:22] <Some_Person> yofel: Ok, update-manager looks just as it did originally when I did it
[19:23] <DanaG> Upstream kernel has rudimentary power management for Radeon KMS.
[19:23] <yofel> Some_Person: replace lucid with karmic, run 'sudo apt-get clean' and 'sudo apt-get update' and try again
[19:23] <DanaG> Saves about 5 or 10 watts, and a big difference in fan noise.
[19:23] <KB1JWQ> Pici: It was a "take the Dlink piece of crap back to the store and get a belkin" issue.  I think that's a ubottu factoid...
[19:23] <Some_Person> yofel: That's what I did
[19:23] <Pici> KB1JWQ: :D
[19:23] <Some_Person> Should I install the latest karmic updates before upgrading to lucid, or does it not matter?
[19:23] <anichols> So the beta is a LiveDVD instead of a LiveCD?  Why the sudden jump in ISO size?
[19:23] <yofel> Some_Person: shouldn't matter
[19:24] <KB1JWQ> Using it now, it seems to work.
[19:24] <KB1JWQ> So yay. \o/
[19:24] <arand> jo-erlend: button placement you mean, they have said "we are going to do this through beta1, to get a lot of testing, and then we'll see"
[19:24] <vish> anichols: metric  unit sizes
[19:24] <anichols> vish: What do you mean?
[19:24] <DanaG> I remember even in the day of the floppy disks:
[19:24] <vish> anichols: rather SI
[19:24] <DanaG> 1.44MB floppy.   Please get me a reference?
[19:24] <Some_Person> I have boxes of 800k floppies still lying around
[19:25] <anichols> DanaG: But this is from 700 meg to 4 gig...a bit more of a difference when your DLing the ISO.
[19:25] <DanaG> It turns out 1.44 == 1.38.
[19:25] <vish> anichols: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[19:25] <DanaG> Floppies are weird: one floppy "megabyte" is something like 1024 * 1000 bytes.
[19:25] <yofel> anichols: no, the isos of the beta are still ~700MB
[19:26] <yofel> anichols: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/
[19:26] <vish> yofel: the confusion is the new units policy
[19:26] <Some_Person> DanaG: 1MB = 1024 KB
[19:26] <h00k> See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=units-policy
[19:26] <arand> jo-erlend: The main bug... But I do think that canonical is going to stick with it, when they get an idea, they tend to, regardless of community hate.
[19:26] <yofel> Some_Person: NO
[19:26] <Some_Person> yofel: WHAT?
[19:26] <yofel> Some_Person: 1MiB = 1024 KiB, 1MB = 1000KB
[19:26] <anichols> yofel: Then explain why this ISO I'm DLing is reporting 270 MB of 3.9 GB downloaded?
[19:26] <vish> Some_Person: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[19:26] <Some_Person> yofel: KiB?
[19:27] <vish> !newunitspolicy is <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy>
[19:27] <yofel> Some_Person: read the link vish gave you
[19:27] <kklimonda> the release notes for 10.04 are going to be huge
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> Yay, updates in the repos!
[19:27] <anichols> yofel: Path = http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-dvd-i386.iso
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: How so?
[19:27] <avar> I'm back, just rebooted into 10.04
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> avar: Well you're up, so apparently it's working well for you.
[19:27] <kklimonda> KB1JWQ: there are a lot of changes in 10.04 that users have to know about before they do an upgrade or install a new system
[19:27] <jo-erlend> arand, no.. Do you remember the firefox issue? That was reverted after lots of hassle.
[19:28] <avar> I hate the new Ambience terminal theme, but it's easily changed
[19:28] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: which one?
[19:28] <yofel> anichols: yes, *that* is the dvd image, but that page doesn't have the cd images, my linked page has them
[19:28] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, the licensing one.
[19:28] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: oh, the eula? but displaying eula wasn't canonical decision
[19:28] <jo-erlend> that actually _was_ a minor, cosmetic issue.
[19:28] <anichols> yofel: Hence my original question.  Why is it a DVD image now instead of CD images, as in the alpha-3 and all the other ubuntu versions I have seen?
[19:28] <Some_Person> yofel, vish: You have just wiped away what I thought was my correct knowledge of this stuff. Now I'm confused
[19:28] <anichols> yofel: A DVD image takes far more time to download.
[19:28] <kklimonda> anichols: you are downloading from the wrong location?
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: Seems like kind of a waste of effort. :-/  Users never read documentation...
[19:29] <arand> avar: Purple terminal, why ever would you be bothered by that :þ
[19:29] <vish> Some_Person: good to be confused sometimes ;)
[19:29] <yofel> anichols: there always were cd images and dvd images, the dvd is the desktop+alternate cd with the language packs I think
[19:29] <anichols> kklimonda: Check my download path?  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-dvd-i386.iso
[19:29] <kklimonda> KB1JWQ: but we can blame them later
[19:29] <yofel> anichols: you looked on the wrong page for the iso
[19:29] <jo-erlend> I just hope Ubuntu isn't heading for a mandrake.
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: I suppose, I'm just cranky from dealing with dumb questions today.
[19:29] <Some_Person> vish, yofel: What's the difference between a kB and a KiB, and why does a KB not exist?
[19:29] <anichols> yofel: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> "My computer broke, what do?" type of questions.
[19:29] <kklimonda> anichols: so you are downloading a dvd, the iso url is http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-desktop-i386.iso
[19:29] <anichols> yofel: Is that not the correct location?
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> I can't unload on the users, so I'm venting here. :-p
[19:30] <yofel> anichols: see kklimondas url
[19:30] <yofel> anichols: the correct location is linked from the beta release page
[19:30] <anichols> Much better....glad I asked in IRC.
[19:30] <anichols> yofel: I thought I was looking at the beta release page....
[19:31] <BUGabundo> jpds: back
[19:31] <yofel> anichols: well, then I don't know how you got to a 'cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/...' page, the link should be 'releases.ubuntu.com/...'
[19:31] <BUGabundo> sorry about leaving you haning
[19:31] <BUGabundo> *hanging
[19:32] <arand> jo-erlend: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/110
[19:32] <anichols> yofel: That's where I got the alpha-3 ISO from, and when I saw that go 404, I went up a directory, saw beta-1, said "aha, the beta is out", went into that, and gaped at it being a Live DVD.
[19:32] <DanaG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand2
[19:32] <yofel> Some_Person: the difference is that KiB are IEC units and kB are SI units, IEC are base 2, SI are base 10
[19:32] <DanaG> orange and purple do look awesome together, if done WELL.
[19:32] <DanaG> As it is right now, the default background is "bleh".
[19:32] <KB1JWQ> SInce I'm doing this al from apt-get, what packages besides a new kernel require a reboot in Ubuntu?
[19:32] <jpds> BUGabundo: I'm used to IRC.
[19:33] <h00k> KB1JWQ: use aptitude instead of apt-get
[19:33] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Why would I do that?
[19:33] <h00k> KB1JWQ: it contains more logics
[19:33] <KB1JWQ> h00k: I'm coming from yum.
[19:33] <DanaG> bonus points if you "sudo aptitude"
[19:33] <DanaG> it gives you a nice ncurses ui,
[19:33] <DanaG> .
[19:33] <yofel> Some_Person: they have different names so you can recognize what is used, but units are commonly misused, this is now mostly being fixed in ubuntu
[19:33] <jorgerosa> hello
[19:34] <BUGabundo> jpds: one of those really stupid things to do... "oh look an extra gnome-terminal still open, lets close it.... NOOOOOOOOOOOO"
[19:34] <Stargaze> !hi| jorgerosa
[19:34] <BUGabundo> too late
[19:34] <jorgerosa> has anyone here, that can submit games to ubuntu repository?
[19:34] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Ugh, not a fan of aptitude.  It's obnoxious and convoluted.
[19:34] <bobby__> Hey... Can someone explain how I can upgrade to 10.04 beta?
[19:34] <Stargaze> jorgerosa, for games, check http://users.skynet.be/gbachot/html/games.html
[19:35] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Besides, how'm I supposed to script that?
[19:35] <h00k> KB1JWQ: sudo aptitude update, sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[19:35] <BUGabundo> KB1JWQ: I guess you know nothing of what you are talking about then
[19:35] <jorgerosa> Ok, thx Stargaze
[19:35] <anichols> bobby__: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/
[19:35] <KB1JWQ> BUGabundo: Entirely possible.  I've been using Ubuntu for... almost a day now.
[19:35] <BUGabundo> !upgrade | bobby__
[19:35] <BUGabundo> KB1JWQ: WOW... I'm so glad for you
[19:35] <jpds> anichols: Ahem, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors .
[19:36] <KB1JWQ> I think I just tripped over someone's sacred cow. :-x
[19:36] <jorgerosa> Stargaze: Sry, not exactly what i'm looking for. In fact doesnt seems nothing ubuntu related...
[19:36] <anichols> jpds: Interesting mirrors page there.
[19:37] <anichols> jpds: The one I'm getting the ISO from only needs 28 more minutes, and I'm on WiFi so I doubt I could DL faster anyway.
[19:37] <claptrap> Alright, so I'm currently doing the upgrade to Lucid, and it's in the configuring grub-pc section. How can I double check where grub is booting from right now?
[19:37] <bobby__> Okay... Nothing can find the 10.04 upgrade
[19:37] <bobby__> apt-get upgrade, update, update-manager...
[19:37] <KB1JWQ> But back to point.  In RedHat land you'll want to update after any updates to the kernel or to the glibc package.  In Ubuntu equivalents, that'd be linux-base and glibc I think?  Is there anything else that should mean "Yeah, time to reboot?"
[19:37] <Stargaze> -d
[19:37] <yofel> bobby__: use 'sudo update-manager -d'
[19:37] <bobby__> didn't work :s
[19:38] <yofel> bobby__: what ubuntu version are you running?
[19:38] <bobby__> 10.04 Alpha 3
[19:38] <BUGabundo> yofel: give then fish.... or teach them to fish
[19:38] <yofel> bobby__: then you don't upgrade to the beta but just make sure you have all updates installed
[19:38] <yofel> BUGabundo: haha
[19:38] <bobby__> They are all installed, the problem is, the upgrade won't even show up
[19:39] <bobby__> I'm up to date as of 23 seconds ago, but the upgrade won't show up
[19:39] <yofel> bobby__: there is NO upgrade from alpha3 -> beta1
[19:39] <bobby__> oh really :s
[19:39] <yofel> bobby__: if you have all updates then you have the beta already
[19:39] <bobby__> Really?...
[19:39] <DanaG> weird: ubuntu-artwork newsgroup said "935" new messages... and then when I went to view it, there were really only TWO new messages.
[19:40] <yofel> bobby__: the beta is nothing special, more like a more stable snapshot of the packages in the repository
[19:40] <bobby__> That wasn't the case in Karmic... I did a straight upgrade from the last karmic alpha to the beta :s
[19:40] <yofel> bobby__: so that we get better installation discs and better working upgrades
[19:41] <bobby__> Interesting...
[19:41] <bobby__> Is this because it is an LTS?
[19:41] <yofel> bobby__: that wasn't the case or update-manager was buggy back then
[19:41] <bobby__> Interesting...
[19:41] <yofel> bobby__: you only upgrade from release to release as in karmic -> lucid, no need to upgrade from Lucid -> Lucid
[19:42] <bobby__> ... In the karmic betas and alphas, and the lucid alphas so far I've been upgrading :?
[19:42] <vish> !newunitspolicy is <Ubuntu has change its units policy in Lucid to maintain consistency. The units now follow the SI standards [ base-10 ]. For more information about the new units policy Kindly read : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy >
[19:42] <yofel> bobby__: and it has nothing to do with Lucid being an LTS
[19:42] <BUGabundo> yofel: one of things that always amazes me. is where new users get this ideas :S
[19:42] <bobby__> oh... Thanks for your help than...
[19:42] <yofel> BUGabundo: yeah, but that makes this # never boring ^^
[19:43] <Trewas> at least canonical is doing something sane this cycle (the units policy) :)
[19:43] <Some_Person> Ok, I think I finally understand it again (but correctly). It seems I've been incorrectly using SI units with base-2 for a very long time
[19:44] <yofel> Trewas: +1
[19:44] <yofel> Some_Person: as many other people in the world, there's still a lot that needs to be fixed
[19:45] <Some_Person> yofel: One thing still confuses me though.  I'm not in 9.10 live USB, in the partitioner. I'd like to just format my partition, reinstall 9.10, and keep everything the same. It's asking me to specify a mount point. During 10.04's upgrade, I elected to install GRUB on all partitions. Before that, I nstalled GRUB2 on another partition. GRUB version 1.98,...
[19:45] <litropy> ...currrently. What should I specify as my mount point? The partition I want to install 9.10 on, or the partition I originally installed GRUB2 on?
[19:45] <litropy> I'm now in 9.10 live USB*
[19:45] <yofel> Some_Person: kB -> kilobytes, kb -> kilobit (I THINK)
[19:46] <BUGabundo> nasso_: well DO YOUR job and report bugs as appropriate! don't blast the work of others :(
[19:46] <kklimonda> yofel: KiB
[19:46] <litropy> I'll then be carefully upgrading to 10.04.
[19:46] <kklimonda> oh wait, kilobit..
[19:46] <kklimonda> ugh
[19:46] <kklimonda> time to get some rest :)
[19:47] <alex_mayorga> has this been packaged for Ubuntu http://counter.li.org/scripts ?
[19:47] <Some_Person> yofel: And what's a "kibibyte"?
[19:47] <hexdump_> hey how is ubuntu 10.04?
[19:47] <jorgerosa> BUGabundo: fui ao teu site, o linux.pt mas não deixa registar.
[19:47] <BUGabundo> lol
[19:47] <yofel> Some_Person: KiB -> kibibyte (base 2 unit name, takes a while to get used to ^^)
[19:47] <BUGabundo> jorgerosa: wrong #. try #ubuntu-pt
[19:48] <jorgerosa> BUGabundo: Ok, i will. Thankyou for being so helpful... NOT! :P
[19:48] <Some_Person> yofel: So what I've been calling a kilobyte for all these years is actually a kibibyte?
[19:48] <jorgerosa> ;)
[19:49] <yofel> Some_Person: depends if you mentioned file sizes or HDD sizes :D
[19:49] <Some_Person> file sizes mainly
[19:49] <Some_Person> I've known for a long time that HDD sizes used base-10
[19:49] <nasso_> BUGabundo: i dont say its a bad project. try to do a apt-cache search nouveau. it says experimental next to the package. does that sound like something you should use by default in a lts?
[19:50] <BUGabundo> nasso_: I used it and tested, and reported bugs on it for over 3 weeks
[19:50] <BUGabundo> from my POV it works very nicelly
[19:50] <Some_Person> But wait, this means that most operating systems use the wrong units! I swear I never saw "KiB" in Windows
[19:50] <BUGabundo> nasso_: plus, having something working with great 2D support totally open, is always better then nothing at all
[19:50] <hexdump_> 10,04 Como é Ubuntu?
[19:50] <bjsnider> nasso_, the alternative is nv, which is at least as bad if not worse
[19:51] <yofel> Some_Person: ok, I was wrong, kbit -> kilobit (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit)
[19:51] <hexdump_> Guess I'll just try it
[19:51] <nasso_> BUGabundo: apparently its not working at all for me so nv is probably better
[19:51] <Trewas> Some_Person: using base-2 units does not make much sense most of the time, as going from KiB to MiB etc requires a calculator instead of just changing the place of the decimal point like with base-10 units
[19:51] <litropy> screw it i'll just use my 9.10 partit and hope for the best
[19:51] <BUGabundo> hexdump_: english please! or #ubuntu-br
[19:52] <Some_Person> Trewas: But most applications seem to use base-2
[19:52] <yofel> Some_Person: exactly. (actually I was shocked too when I learned of the difference ^^)
[19:52] <nasso_> BUGabundo: it is experimental software. its young. i could understand it it appeared in 10.10. but in a lts?!
[19:52] <hexdump_> BUGabundo:  thats fine just wanted to see if updating to Ubuntu 10.04 would be a good idea
[19:52] <kklimonda> Some_Person: they are broken
[19:52] <BUGabundo> we need support for framebuffer
[19:52] <Some_Person> Problem! Nautilus says I have a folder that's "34.0 KB"
[19:52] <Trewas> Some_Person: yes, which does not mean that ubuntu starting to mark the units correctly and using mostly SI units is a bad idea
[19:52] <Some_Person> what does that mean?
[19:52] <kklimonda> Some_Person: for 10.04 we are fixing nautilus and maybe few others but the idea is to fix them all
[19:53] <BUGabundo> hexdump_: if you are ready to test, have backups, feel confortable filling bugs, and fixing stuff that breaks, sure
[19:53] <kklimonda> nasso_: it's not that young or that experimental
[19:53] <Some_Person> kklimonda: Will nautilus use base-10 or base-2?
[19:53] <kklimonda> Some_Person: base-10
[19:54] <hexdump_> BUGabundo:  yeah it's a given that it would be buggy right now.  I might just slap it on another pc and give it a go.
[19:54] <kklimonda> nasso_: LTS means "Long Term Support" and it's easier to support nouveau than nv
[19:54] <Some_Person> kklimonda: What does it use in karmic?
[19:55] <kklimonda> Some_Person: base-2 with wrong labels afair
[19:55] <Some_Person> Why the move to base-10?
[19:55] <kklimonda> so users are less confused
[19:56] <Some_Person> I'm actually more used to base-2 than base-10, so this will probably confuse me
[19:56]  * anichols prefers base-2 to be honest.
[19:56] <kklimonda> only because that's what you have been using for years
[19:56] <anichols> kklimonda: Indeed
[19:57] <Some_Person> kklimonda: Windows uses base-2 with wrong labels AFAIK. Why not just use base-2 with the correct labels?
[19:57] <CosmiChaos> my 8600gts 16x on nforce 630i 16x pci express still is only at bus type 4x :((((( any idea https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/541749
[19:57] <Trewas> Some_Person: so you know instinćtively whether 7100000KiB will fit to 680MiB cd, and so on? :)
[19:57] <Trewas> Some_Person: most of the time using base-2 units makes no sense, as it only makes things complicated to humans
[19:58] <Trewas> well there was some extra zeros, but you get the idea
[19:58] <jimlovell777> is there a place where I can find why a package has been removed from the repos?
[19:59] <anichols> So much for remembering 1024 - 1048576 -<PHONE_NUMBER> :P
[19:59] <claptrap> Alllllriiiight. Looks like Lucid install was successful... now to find the problems it caused. qq
[19:59] <kklimonda> Some_Person: because disks use base-10 and CDs use base-10 (with wrong labels) so if we use base-2 the question "does this file fit this cd" remains
[19:59] <Some_Person> that actually makes sense
[20:00] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, it's regrettable that your system uses an nforce chipset
[20:00] <CosmiChaos> what do you want to say?
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> ah ok i got the word, whats the problem with nforce chipset
[20:01] <Some_Person> all righty, I'm for the switch then
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> chipset and card are from nvidia and both are claimed to be 16x
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> so wtf is going on? in windows it works
[20:02] <claptrap> Sooooo. This little Twitter/Facebook/chats thinger... what does it do on the chat protocols, exactly?
[20:03] <claptrap> Like, do I need to be using Empathy to get the full benefits of this little deal?
[20:03] <MikeChelen> claptrap: it seems to use empathy by default, a number of account types are supported
[20:04] <Crashbit> I have a problem with blogtk. It doesn't import gtkhtml2, because the packet that contain doesn't exist on lucid
[20:04] <avar> how do I change not only the theme but also the desktop background to the default of the theme?
[20:04] <owaislone> hey everyone
[20:04] <owaislone> i'm on lucid alpha3
[20:04] <CosmiChaos> bjsnider, there must be a way to find out for what reason it is setup as 4x, since lspci says both are capable of 16x damnit
[20:04] <owaislone> i just upgraded a few packages and nautilus  + docky stopped working
[20:04] <claptrap> MikeChelen: Well, I mean, I signed in on it... but... now what? Did it start Empathy? Am I able to receive messages, or do I need to start Empathy for it to hook into?
[20:05] <Some_Person> owaislone: you should be on beta1
[20:05] <owaislone> segmentation fault (core dumped)
[20:05] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, the nforce chipset is not well supported in linux compared to the intel chipsets
[20:05] <owaislone> @some_person: thats what i was trying to do by upgrading
[20:05] <MikeChelen> claptrap: think it starts empathy automatically, if you have created the chat accounts already
[20:06] <DBO> I get occasional screen flickering on my intel based laptop after upgrade
[20:06] <CosmiChaos> bjsniper oh no problem i already claiming in #nvidia too about what the problem may be, see: I SEE THAT ITS NOT WELL SUPPORTED ;)
[20:06] <xfact> They changed every thing default except the pointer (and some icons)
[20:06] <owaislone> here are the packages i upgrader
[20:06] <kklimonda> Crashbit: report a bug
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-session (2.28.0-0ubuntu7) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-session-bin (2.28.0-0ubuntu7) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-settings-daemon (2.28.1-1ubuntu2) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu2
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-alsa (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-nice (0.0.10-2) to 0.0.10-2build1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.17-3ubuntu3) to 0.10.18-1ubuntu1
[20:06] <claptrap> Hm. Let's see if I can remember what annoyed me about Empathy.
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse (0.10.17-0ubuntu1) to 0.10.18-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.27-1) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-apps (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <DBO> :/
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio (0.10.17-1ubuntu1) to 0.10.21-1ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-tools (0.10.25-4) to 0.10.28-1
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-x (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-backends (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <Crashbit> kklimonda: ok :)
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-bin (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <kklimonda> argh
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-fuse (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <claptrap> Can someone uh
[20:07] <owaislone> checkbox (0.8.6) to 0.9
[20:07] <owaislone> checkbox-gtk (0.8.6) to 0.9
[20:07] <claptrap> Give that thing the boot?
[20:07] <claptrap> :E
[20:07] <owaislone> example-content (38) to 40
[20:07] <CosmiChaos> bjsnider, i still get confused by lspci saying the port is capable of 16x
[20:07] <owaislone> xorg (1:7.5+1ubuntu12) to 1:7.5+3ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> apport (1.12.1-0ubuntu5) to 1.13-0ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> apport-gtk (1.12.1-0ubuntu5) to 1.13-0ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> apport-symptoms (0.8) to 0.9
[20:07] <owaislone> bind9-host (1:9.6.1.dfsg.P2-1) to 1:9.7.0.dfsg.1-1~build1
[20:07] <owaislone> brltty (4.1-2ubuntu4) to 4.1-2ubuntu6
[20:07] <owaislone> brltty-x11 (4.1-2ubuntu4) to 4.1-2ubuntu6
[20:07] <kklimonda> !op
[20:07] <owaislone> cdbs (0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu4) to 0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu5
[20:07] <owaislone> command-not-found (0.2.40ubuntu2) to 0.2.40ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> command-not-found-data (0.2.40ubuntu2) to 0.2.40ubuntu3
[20:07] <xfact> owaislone, Please use ubuntu pastebin
[20:07] <owaislone> computer-janitor (1.14-0ubuntu1) to 1.14.1-0ubuntu2
[20:07] <owaislone> computer-janitor-gtk (1.14-0ubuntu1) to 1.14.1-0ubuntu2
[20:07] <owaislone> console-setup (1.34ubuntu6) to 1.34ubuntu11
[20:07] <owaislone> kbd (1.15-1ubuntu1) to 1.15-1ubuntu3
[20:08] <kklimonda> thanks jrib
[20:08] <jrib> kklimonda: thank you
[20:08] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, i've deliberately avoided nforce boards because of these types of issues, so i ain't no nforce expert, if there is such a thing
[20:09] <avar> where do I find this "meMenu" ?
[20:09] <kklimonda> avar: well, it's in the right corner of the top panel
[20:10] <avar> not for me, I upgraded from 9.10
[20:10] <CosmiChaos> bjsniper so -because 16x works in windows and lspci says in linux that port is capable of 16x - it seems to be caused by the kernel pciport-driver
[20:10] <CosmiChaos>  Kernel driver in use: pcieport
[20:10] <avar> can't find it in "add to panel" either
[20:11] <MikeChelen> it's built into the user switcher / logout
[20:11] <kklimonda> avar: it's called indicator session
[20:12] <owaislone> anyone?
[20:12] <avar> ah, it was in "indicator applet session"
[20:13] <kklimonda> owaislone: if you have a segmentation fault than you should report bug on LP using the apport dialog that shows up after application crash.
[20:13] <MikeChelen> !pastebin | owaislone
[20:13] <owaislone> no apport dialog shows up
[20:13] <owaislone> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397975/
[20:14] <kklimonda> owaislone: check if you have a related crash file in /var/crash/
[20:14] <claptrap> Ugh wow
[20:15] <bjwebb> anyone know why i may have lost gnome?
[20:15] <kklimonda> are there any problems with lucid iso images and unetbootin ?
[20:15] <kklimonda> bjwebb: well, that's a vague question - what do you mean by "lost" ?
[20:15] <kklimonda> bjwebb: have you tried (re)installing ubuntu-destkop?
[20:15] <bjwebb> kklimonda: gdm doesn't list it anymore
[20:15] <bjwebb> kklimonda: no, will do
[20:16] <MikeChelen> kklimonda: try using usb startup creator instead of unetbootin
[20:16] <bjwebb> oh, i don't have ubunu-desktop, i see what's up
[20:16] <owaislone> nope
[20:16] <owaislone> no crash file
[20:16] <kklimonda> MikeChelen: that's not what I've asked for though - a friend of mine has borked his lucid installation and have only access to windows
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> sorry if this has been asked, but where is the best place to download the beta?
[20:17] <Some_Person> CalmvsKhaos: type /topic
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> ok ty
[20:17] <bjwebb> well, lets try again
[20:17] <MikeChelen> kklimonda: oh that is too bad, have had more luck with usb creator than unetbootin
[20:17] <nicuro> How can I request that the mobile-broadband-provider-info package be updated in Lucid to the latest version in gnome. it is just a database of mobile broadband operators and should not create any problems?
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> when was the beta released today?
[20:18] <owaislone> bump!
[20:19] <MikeChelen> !repeat | owaislone
[20:19] <vish> CalmvsKhaos: yes, http://release-blog.ubuntu.com/?p=102
[20:19] <owaislone> aight
[20:19] <guntbert> owaislone: this isn't a forum - please have patience
[20:19] <owaislone> nautilus crashes after upgrading a few packages
[20:19]  * Some_Person has never had the misfortune of using either
[20:19] <kklimonda> owaislone: it's not really a forum - check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash for how to debug a crash
[20:19] <owaislone> here is the list
[20:19] <owaislone> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397975/
[20:19] <owaislone> nautilus shows segmentation fault
[20:19] <owaislone> but works as root
[20:20] <kklimonda> owaislone: segmentation fault means nothing if you don't have backtraces
[20:20] <owaislone> guntbert:i thought forum should have patience.. irc is instant.. hehe
[20:20] <owaislone> kklimonda: where do i find one?
[20:21] <vish> owaislone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
[20:21] <guntbert> owaislone: I was referring to the "bump" - its senseless here :)
[20:21] <MikeChelen> owaislone: people come and go, they might not have seen your whole question, so it is good to repeat a summary when needed
[20:22] <owaislone> hmm..i'm new.. so can you guys at least point out the suspects.. so i downgrade them and see if nautilus works again
[20:23] <Some_Person> does lucid+1 have a name yet?
[20:24] <lenios> no
[20:24] <claptrap> Mmk
[20:25] <claptrap> So, now I can't alt-tab out of fullscreen WoW in WINE. v.v
[20:25] <alex_mayorga> ouch got a kerneloops
[20:25] <nicuro> Where do I go if I want to suggest a package updated in the repos?
[20:26] <Some_Person> nicuro: Probably the bug tracker, though it's unlikely to happen since it's after the freeze
[20:27]  * bjwebb wonders if not being in group video could be causing trouble
[20:27] <nicuro> the package readme says "The Package contains only informational files so it's safe for distributions to grab updates even during feature freeze and maintenance stages."
[20:28] <lenios> what is this package, is it really needed?
[20:29] <MikeChelen> how can i check if a system has been upgraded from alpha 3 to beta?
[20:29] <nicuro> its mobile-broadband-provider-info and its not updated since 20091009
[20:30] <nicuro> its the list of mobile broadband settings for mobile operators  settings
[20:30] <nicuro> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/mobile-broadband-provider-info
[20:30] <nicuro> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/mobile-broadband-provider-info/20091009-0ubuntu2
[20:31] <claptrap> This is tres frustrating.
[20:31] <lenios> MikeChelen, just update/upgrade your packages, and you will be beta
[20:31] <nicuro> and for example in romania it does not have all the operators. and the one from gnome does
[20:32] <alex_mayorga> Bug #542178
[20:32] <MikeChelen> lenios: upgrade thinks there isn't anything to do, maybe beta is not available on all repo mirrors yet?
[20:33] <lenios> there was no change in the last day
[20:33] <lenios> beta freeze
[20:33] <MikeChelen> so there are no updates with today's beta release?
[20:33] <owaislone> Hey guys
[20:33] <owaislone> it's working now
[20:34] <lenios> if you updated in the last days, you should be beta now
[20:34] <owaislone> somehow it generated a crash report upon trying again and the crash report said some packages we obsolete
[20:34] <owaislone> installed them and woot... it works now.. Thanks.
[20:34] <owaislone> it's never a waste to have a look at the irc
[20:34] <MikeChelen> lenios: ah ok, thanks
[20:35] <owaislone> today i learned that apport reports sit in /var/crash
[20:35] <owaislone> thanks again
[20:35] <owaislone> bye
[20:35] <owaislone> keep rocking!!
[20:36] <avar> Some_Person: So after I add your ppa how do I install your light-themes and not ubuntu's ?
[20:36] <claptrap> Oh wow.
[20:36] <Seq> Hey. How can I troubleshoot a failure to boot with nouveau modesetting is enabled? It happens with beta1 itself and with the xorg-crack pushers PPA
[20:36] <Some_Person> avar: just update your system
[20:36] <claptrap> WINE emulating a virtual desktop at my resolution actually goes over the WHOLE screen now.
[20:36] <Seq> happens with both, I should say. I first tested plain beta1
[20:36] <claptrap> Neato!
[20:37] <claptrap> I hope that sticks around. :D
[20:38] <nasso_> is there a way to move the close,minimized and maximize nuttons to the right side?
[20:38] <claptrap> ...hey
[20:38] <claptrap> That issue didn't hit me. o_o My buttons are still on the right.
[20:38] <avar> Some_Person: Even though I've added your ppa aptitude update/upgrade/dist-upgrade doesn't install anything new. And I don's see your light-themes under aptitude show light-themes
[20:39] <nasso_> claptrap: i did a clean install. you upgraded?
[20:39] <claptrap> nasso_: Yeah.
[20:39] <Bittarman> so, are the buttons staying on the left?
[20:39] <Bittarman> or is that tbd?
[20:39] <claptrap> Seems pretty 100%.
[20:39] <Bittarman> (I quite like them there)
[20:40] <claptrap> I still have yet to see a real reason for it. qq
[20:40] <claptrap> The only thing I've seen so far is Shuttleworth's "CAUSE I WANNA!"
[20:40] <Some_Person> avar: apt-cache show light-themes
[20:40] <Some_Person> avar: what version does it say?
[20:40] <Bittarman> claptrap, seems like a good enough reason to me :P
[20:40] <Bittarman> i think its kinda neat
[20:41] <claptrap> lol.
[20:41] <BluesKaj> !intelhda
[20:41] <Bittarman> makes the titlebar cleaner
[20:41] <claptrap> Yeah, but
[20:41] <claptrap> What's going on over there now?
[20:41] <claptrap> Like.
[20:41] <claptrap> There's a huge, empty space not doing anything.
[20:41] <Bittarman> mmmmmm deadspace
[20:41]  * Bittarman drools
[20:41] <claptrap> ...lol.
[20:42] <claptrap> I put my monitor space to work. :<
[20:42] <lenios> it's supposed to minimize mouse gestures needed for actions
[20:42] <Bittarman> I think asthetically its much better
[20:42] <duffydack> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/meet-zeitbutton-right-hand-side.html
[20:42] <claptrap> lenios: How so?
[20:42] <avar> Some_Person: Two, one of them <IP_ADDRESS>-1~ppa
[20:42] <busata> hmm, might be a stupid question, I have alpha 3 version, but there hasn't been any update for 2 days now, is that normal?
[20:42] <Bittarman> claptrap, most likely your pointer is left up near the top left anyway
[20:42] <busata> (as the beta1 version is out)
[20:42] <Bittarman> thats where most mouse action happens
[20:43] <alex_mayorga> busata: I have the same question
[20:43] <Bittarman> file menu us there, usually copy/paste buttons are up near there, along with save etc.
[20:43] <Bittarman> s/us/is
[20:43] <claptrap> I can -kinda- see that (not true for me, since I use a trackball) but I see more misclicks than anything else.
[20:43] <Some_Person> avar: apt-cache policy light-themes - which one is the candidate?
[20:43] <claptrap> "File -> Pri--- ah shit I just closed everything."
[20:44] <CalmvsKhaos> is there a DVD .iso of lucid? all im seeing is cd's isos
[20:44] <Bittarman> any program worth its salt goes "Are you sure you want to quit, all changes will be lost" if youve done any work and not saved it yet
[20:44] <Bittarman> any that don't should have issues filed against them
[20:44] <claptrap> Yes, well, you're not necessarily using that program. :p
[20:44] <avar> Some_Person: ah, it's already installed, must have been a part of the upgrade I was doing earlier. Sorry.
[20:45] <claptrap> I don't think the window control buttons are SO commonly accessed that they need to be grouped with other common actions.
[20:45] <Some_Person> avar: Remember, you have to log out and then log back in to actually see the changes
[20:45] <barry> is anybody able to help and/or is interested in debug x crashes on nvidia h/w after an upgrade from karmic->lucid?
[20:45] <avar> Some_Person: Yeah. I just didn't spot it being installed:)
[20:45] <Bittarman> barry, I purged and reinstalled the drivers, that fixed it all.
[20:45] <bjwebb> where, oh where is my compiz :(
[20:46] <Bittarman> you just need to clean out all the old nv-glx stuff i think.
[20:46] <busata> alex_mayorga: had any luck with answers? ;-)
[20:46] <Bittarman> *nvidia--glx
[20:46] <alex_mayorga> busata: haven't wrote the question yet :)
[20:46] <barry> Bittarman: so, apt-get remove any old stuff in a chroot, then reinstall... which package?
[20:46] <CalmvsKhaos> is there a DVD .iso of lucid? all im seeing is cd's isos
[20:46] <alex_mayorga> CalmvsKhaos: what do you need a DVD for?
[20:47] <lenios> CalmvsKhaos, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
[20:47] <busata> alex_mayorga: ah yes, ubuntu community is amazing, but they don't have telepathy yet :(
[20:47] <CalmvsKhaos> less downloading of packages
[20:47] <lenios> 4go iso is available
[20:47] <alex_mayorga> CalmvsKhaos: better to install the base and grow from there, isn't it?
[20:47] <alex_mayorga> lenios: what's on the DVD?
[20:47] <CalmvsKhaos> isnt that a paid site ?
[20:47] <arand> Some_Person: not enough to reload metacity?
[20:48] <CalmvsKhaos> the one you can buy the entire software mirror
[20:48] <lenios> i have no idea what's on the dvd lacking on the cd
[20:48] <alex_mayorga> busata: but they have empathy ;)
[20:48] <lenios> you can check the packages list
[20:48] <busata> ;)
[20:48] <claptrap> Whoa wtf
[20:48] <Some_Person> arand: You can try it, but it didn't work for me for some reason
[20:48] <claptrap> Kopete's incoming messages are coming up in like
[20:48] <claptrap> normal little windows
[20:48] <claptrap> With buttons
[20:48] <claptrap> Not the uh
[20:48] <claptrap> notifications I'm used to.
[20:49] <claptrap> Is glibnotify busted in Lucid?
[20:49] <Bittarman> barry, http://pastie.org/877764
[20:49] <CalmvsKhaos> lenios, thanks for that link :)
[20:49] <Bittarman> those ones
[20:49] <Some_Person> My understanding was that the DVD contains universe too, or maybe I'm mistaken
[20:50] <barry> Bittarman: thanks... trying it now
[20:50] <arand> I've heard localisations...
[20:50] <bjwebb> okay, now this is some freaky shit
[20:50] <bjwebb> everythings pink and green
[20:50] <lenios> i only use cds and add what i need
[20:50] <busata> alex_mayorga: check http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1433116&page=3
[20:51] <claptrap> Does libnotify not work in Lucid? v.v
[20:51] <lenios> claptrap, it does work
[20:52] <claptrap> lenios: Neither Empathy nor Kopete seem to be seeing that. Any idea why?
[20:52] <lenios> i'm using empathy and it does work
[20:52] <claptrap> lenios: Kopete is showing messages in very annoying dialog-box style notifications, Empathy just isn't showing anythign.
[20:53] <bjwebb> hmmm, i get some weird stuff in my xorg log
[20:53] <lenios> claptrap, in empathy, edition > preferences > notifications
[20:54] <busata> anyway, a question in general again, were there any updates today or yesterday? :-p
[20:54] <lenios> maybe kopete is not using libnotify
[20:54] <claptrap> lenios: It was before the upgrade.
[20:54] <lenios> claptrap, ?
[20:54] <lenios> oh
[20:54] <bjwebb> why would i get (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) if i am using an intel chipset?
[20:55] <lenios> can't help with kopete
[20:55] <CalmvsKhaos> wow the mirrors are getting really slow now
[20:55] <claptrap> And all notifications except for online/offline are enabled in Empathy.
[20:56] <Bittarman> bjwebb, grep your xorg.conf for "nvidia"
[20:56] <lenios> claptrap, do you have notifications in another program?
[20:56] <Some_Person> I'm getting my normal 80 kB/s for my lucid upgrade
[20:56] <bjwebb> Bittarman: nothing, its all generic
[20:57] <claptrap> lenios: If you're asking if any other program is currently sending notifications, no.
[20:57] <CalmvsKhaos> Some_Person, i normally get around 550kb/s getting 20-50kb/s now
[20:57] <lenios> there must be something wrong with it then, not with empathy
[20:57] <bjsnider> bjwebb, you have an nvidia graphics chip?
[20:57] <bjwebb> bjsnider: nope, an intel one afaik
[20:58] <bjwebb> product: Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller
[20:58] <bjwebb>              vendor: Intel Corporation
[20:58] <claptrap> lenios: Any ideas?
[20:59] <eggster2002>  Hi all, I have just installed Lucid beta 1 on VirtualBox v3.1.4 when I reboot the VM after installing the guest additions all I get is a blank screen. Has any one else come across this?
[20:59] <lenios> claptrap, check your logs
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> its buggy in vmware too eggster2002
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> my entire PC is locking up with Lucid in VMware
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> :(((
[20:59] <eggster2002> :'(
[20:59] <alex_mayorga> busata: thanks on answering our question :)
[21:00] <busata> alex_mayorga: I hope that's it, cause I find it weird that I had no updates for two days
[21:00] <claptrap> lenios: How do I do that for libnotify? Still fairly Ubuntu-nub.
[21:00] <lenios> busata, that's not weird, that's a freeze for the beta release
[21:00] <busata> aha!
[21:01] <busata> thanks :)
[21:01] <BluesKaj> CalmvsKhaos, running an alpha or beta OS in VM is not recommended
[21:01] <CalmvsKhaos> i  sure aint putting it on my system
[21:01] <CalmvsKhaos> i might try live cd
[21:02] <duffydack> entire OS freeze with a vm ??  Odd....
[21:02] <lenios> claptrap, i don't know what to find, but it should be on system logs
[21:02] <CalmvsKhaos> yes odd indeed
[21:02] <lenios> in /var/log, or system logs viewer from admin menu
[21:02] <barry> Bittarman: that did the trick, thanks!  now i've got to re-enable my dual-head and i will be a lucky lynx
[21:02] <Some_Person> Shouldn't an OS be theoretically more stable in a VM?
[21:02] <Bittarman> barry, yw
[21:02] <lenios> why would it be more stable?
[21:03] <Some_Person> The emulated hardware is known and constant
[21:03] <duffydack> I dont know why a vm would freeze your host...very odd.. It shouldnt happen
[21:03] <avar> My volume control disappeared in 10.04 and I can't find it again
[21:03] <Some_Person> avar: indicator applet
[21:04] <avar> ah, thanks:0
[21:04] <rye> BluesKaj, erm, why running anything in VM is not recommended?
[21:05] <claptrap> lenios: I don't see anything for libnotify or notification-daemon... no idea what I'm looking for, though. .-.
[21:05] <CalmvsKhaos> duffydack, if it's using VT-X/EPT or AMD-V/RVI i could see how it could lock up the host
[21:05] <duffydack> CalmvsKhaos, ahh.. of course.
[21:06] <Stargaze> same here avar no volume control, i didn't notice it
[21:06] <avar> fixed by adding the indicator applet
[21:07] <Some_Person> they moved it from the notification applet to the indicator applet
[21:08] <bjwebb> hmmm, why can't i do ctrl+alt+left
[21:10] <lullabud> bjwebb: is one of your keys missing?
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: hmmmm
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: you may have a point
[21:10] <lullabud> i hate it when that happens....
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: the physical key is fine, but it does nothing in x
[21:11] <claptrap> So it seems notifications aren't working at all.
[21:11] <lullabud> wow, that's weird.
[21:11] <lullabud> bjwebb: does it work in cli mode?
[21:11] <lenios> claptrap, fresh install? ubuntu/kubuntu?
[21:11] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:12] <bjwebb> lullabud: yep
[21:12] <claptrap> lenios: Upgraded from Ubuntu 9.10 to 10.04 Beta1.
[21:12] <bjwebb> lullabud: the colemak keymap is messed up, so i used a manual one
[21:12] <bjwebb> so i suspect that's related
[21:15] <avar> These "Social from the Start" features in Ubuntu 10.04 are totally underwhelming. It's just a textfield that goes to Twitter + Gwibber by default
[21:16] <claptrap> I suspect (hope) there'll be more to that.
[21:16] <claptrap> lol
[21:17] <bjwebb> !keycode 100 = Left
[21:17] <bjwebb> now what's up with that
[21:18] <bjwebb> unless something in gnome is catching it...
[21:20] <jo-erlend> are the other flavours of Ubuntu ready for documentation and screencasts?
[21:20] <lenios> it's really social from the start, you can change your statut directly from the memenu, use empathy to be connected on facebook, and even gwibber by default to check on twitter/FB with a good interface
[21:22] <bjwebb> what could be grabbing my keyboard input before the wm?
[21:30] <duffydack> Is the memenu supposed to notify of events in your 'social' accounts, even when you dont have gwibber running, or do you need it running, which negates the need for anything at all social related to be in the memenu...
[21:31] <duffydack> it just becomes a shortcut to gwibber like in the application menu otherwise..
[21:31] <BluesKaj> strange stuff, just upgraded the laptop to lucid , but PA and jack are both listed in sys/settings /media/music even tho they're not installed
[21:31] <duffydack> well Ive not noticed it notify anything, yet..
[21:34] <lenios> i get notifications of contacts getting online
[21:34] <Some_Person> I don't like how gnome-games has been losing games over time
[21:36] <bjwebb> anyone know where keyboard layouts are stored?
[21:38] <lenios> bjwebb, system > prefs > keyboard > second tab
[21:38] <bjwebb> i mean actual location
[21:38] <bjwebb> in fs
[21:38] <lenios> you want to modify one?
[21:39] <bjwebb> kindof
[21:39] <bjwebb> i want to see what's wrong with one
[21:39] <bjwebb> my bottom row is offset
[21:43] <gorthaug> hi
[21:44] <lenios> bjwebb, check in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols
[21:46] <gorthaug> i've a problem after the beta1 installation... it's a clean installation without others OS, ok, the problem it's that in the boot of the machine i don't see any grub menu and i get and kernel panic thay say me that can't mount the root fs in unknow-block(0,0) the / its in the partition /dev/sda1, can anybody help me please?
[21:48] <bjwebb> okay, bug reporting time methinks
[21:48] <bjwebb> or maybe i should try to fix it first
[21:53] <bjwebb> okay, so wth, it looks like someone's gone out of their way to break this
[21:54] <gorthaug> can anybody help me with my problem?
[21:54] <bjwebb> is there an easy way to find out what package a file is in?
[21:56] <yofel> gorthaug: for grub 2 you need to hold left shift pressed to get to the boot menu
[21:56] <yofel> or right, not sure
[21:57] <yofel> gorthaug: and did you specify something like hd0,0 at some point? grub2 uses different numbering, sda1 == hd0,1
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: yes
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: 'dpkg -S <file>' will search all installed packages
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: use apt-file if you want to search the complete repository
[21:59] <bjwebb> yofel: thankyou muchly
[21:59] <gorthaug> yofel, no dont specify nothing... that was the authomatic installation... and i'm seen the grub.cfg with the live cd and in the line for ubuntu 10.04 appear hd(0,1)
[22:00] <yofel> bjwebb: if you need help on bug filing you can ask the bugsquad in #ubuntu-bugs (for now you might find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage helpful)
[22:00] <yofel> gorthaug: hm...
[22:02] <bjwebb> yofel: i've find the package thanks. i've changed the file so it works for me. is there an easy way to get a diff with the packaged version?
[22:02] <bjwebb> oh, wait, i just commented it out, its fine
[22:03] <gorthaug> ok, it's works... the UUID for root was wrong, i set it by device /dev/sda1 and it works
[22:03] <claptrap> Never did get notifications working.
[22:05] <lenios> unlucky
[22:06] <richthegeek> anyone else getting a "Could not write bytes: broken pipe" with Plymouth/nvidia?
[22:08] <yofel> gorthaug: don't forget to file a bug, I'm not sure against which package, but ubiquity (the live disk installer) would be a good start
[22:09] <MarcoPau> hello, my xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[22:10] <yofel> MarcoPau: what ati driver are you trying to use?
[22:10] <MarcoPau> yofel: open source
[22:11] <yofel> MarcoPau: and what driver is it trying to use at the moment?
[22:11] <Sulle> If you install the beta through wubi.exe, will the grub work?. it did not work for me in the aplha 3.
[22:11] <MarcoPau> yofel: it tries to open ati, but doesn't find the module, thou it's installed. then it goes to vesa
[22:11] <yofel> Sulle: not sure, but don't forget to get the fixed wubi version as described on the release page
[22:12] <yofel> MarcoPau: can you pastebin your xorg log?
[22:12] <MarcoPau> http://pastebin.com/1NanSedR
[22:12] <MarcoPau> yofel: it was already there, have been searching for help the whole day
[22:15] <yofel> MarcoPau: that's odd... are you sure that /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so exists and isn't corrupted?
[22:23] <MarcoPau> yofel: well, it's there
[22:24] <MarcoPau> yofel: and that should just recall radeon_drv.so
[22:31] <Pirate_Hunter> how stable is lucid now can I use it for hosting a couple of site?
[22:32] <Unksi> Pirate_Hunter: i would never use an unstable environment in a server
[22:33] <guntbert> Pirate_Hunter: in the light that !serverguide still points to 8.04 (deliberately) - listen to Unksi
[22:34] <Pirate_Hunter> the problem is that I really do not wish to wait it is stopping me in many ways, lucid offers good features and would like to setup these servers as soon as possible, hmmm guntbert I know what you mean but how bad is it still?
[22:34] <Okidesu> is there a new version of mplayer for lucid ?
[22:37] <lenios> Okidesu, mplayer Version : 2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu15
[22:38] <FFForever> is it me or is the startup drive checker broken?
[22:38] <Okidesu> lenios, isn't that the same version for Karmic ?!
[22:39] <lenios> no idea
[22:39] <yofel> Okidesu: almost, karmic is ubuntu10 (10.1 in karmic-updates)
[22:45] <disismt> hi all I am trying to upgrade to 10.04 beta 1 but when I do update-manager -d and click 'upgrade', the relase notes says 'This is still a ALPHA release.'
[22:46] <disismt> shoudn't the release notes say BETA release?
[22:47] <yofel> disismt: they should, it's a known issue, should be fixed in a short while, but lucid is beta now
[22:48] <maxb> This is really weird.... on one of my lucid systems, the gdm theme is all purple. On another it's still the karmic-style spotlight. I've not knowingly done anything different between them
[22:49] <disismt> yofel: , so I should upgrade then? I don't want to end up with the alpha version (I want the beta).
[22:50] <Unksi> disismt: even if you got the alpha, you could get the beta with a simple sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:50] <yofel> disismt: you'll end up with the version lucid is at right now, which is beta
[22:50] <maxb> disismt: You realize the distinction is fairly meaningless? there is a continual progression of package updates, beta is merely a declaration that is made at some point
[22:50] <disismt> ok thanks
[22:56] <Pirate_Hunter> for thsoe here that have tested other webserver other than apache, what are your opinion of cherokee and nginx? which do you consider better, lighter, simpler of use?
[22:56] <bj0rn2> installed 10.04 beta 1 on my netbook (compaq mini 311) and it won't boot. I'd like to try to find the cause. anyone care to point me on how to get more diagostics output when booting?
[22:56] <dragon> The lucid download page only lists DVD images. Do we not have CD images anymore? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/
[22:57] <yofel> dragon: go to the release page (link in topic) and follow the links there to get the cd images
[22:58] <dragon> yofel: got it. Shouldn't the CD images be listed on the cdimage.ubuntu.com/... pages?
[22:59] <yofel> dragon: I have really no idea how the images are spread on cdimage.ubuntu.com . I know the daily builds are held there, but the official images are usually on releases.ubuntu.com
[22:59] <dragon> alright
[23:04] <Okidesu> update mplayer please :(
[23:04] <LinuxGuy2009> If i install Lucid along side my 9.04 installation do I risk the possibility of 10.04 breaking the ability to boot back into 9.04 if some severe problem may occur with install or bugs or is this a fairly safe method of testing?
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> LinuxGuy2009: should be fairly safe, especially at this point
[23:05] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: I think a virtual machine is the best way for your to test it
[23:06] <LinuxGuy2009> sebsebseb: Other than just seeing what it looks like, isn't that rather pointless at this point?
[23:06] <LinuxGuy2009> Doesnt it need tested on real world hardware i mean
[23:06] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: 9.04 uses old Grub
[23:07] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: put 10.04 on other partition get Grub 2,  and I am wondering if that will  have issues or not when it comes to booting up your 9.04 install
[23:07] <LinuxGuy2009> Oh yeah I forgot all about that. Good call. Ill just run in Vbox on my desktop and do a clean install on my netbook.
[23:08] <CalmvsKhaos> so is the buttons on the left going to stay that way now or do they plan on changing that later?
[23:08] <jhaig> Just trying Lucid for the first time.  At the install it has detected my timezone.  How has it done that?
[23:08] <CalmvsKhaos> prolly by your IP
[23:10] <koltroll> Heya guys. I've got a asus 1000he, installed the beta from live cd. When in live mode the wirless worked great. But after install I can't connect to my WPA2 secured home network. Any thoughts on this?
[23:10] <koltroll> When trying out the lucid NBR live cd it didn't work in live mode.
[23:11] <sirninja> Whenever I close the lid of my laptop and reopen it, it logs me out instead of suspending? How do I fix this?
[23:14] <LADmaticCA> anyway to get advanced options for running a live cd? I can't get beta 1 live cd to work with my ati laptop
[23:22] <bj0rn2> I can't seem to get to the grub boot menu in 10.04 beta1.. it just goes straight into booting. I want to boot in recovery mode. anyone know how to do that?
[23:22] <CosmiChaos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/541749
[23:22] <arand> bj0rn2: shift not working?
[23:22] <lullabud> bj0rn2: you know, i had a problem with grub too.  during upgrade it asked me if i wanted to install grub, but it wouldn't let me answer "yes"
[23:22] <Milos_SD> bj0rn2, hold SHIFT
[23:23] <bj0rn2> ah! shift does the trick :) (not used to that in prev. versions..)
[23:26] <yofel> bj0rn2: grub used Esc to get to the menu, grub2 uses shift
[23:29] <bj0rn2> ouch.. I get freezes at b43-pci-bridge module with kernel 2.6.32 didn't expect that :( should be fixed according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/479597 :/
[23:32] <CalmvsKhaos> sure seems quiet in here today, especially given that the beta was released today :)
[23:32] <koliz> it's kinda strange them "close-the-window"-buttons. Before they used to be at the right. Now they are at the left, like in mac os x. But they have switched the order compared to mac os x, putting the close-button to the far right.
[23:37] <jhaig> koliz: Yes, moving the buttons is a little confusing.
[23:37] <koliz> jhaig, is it possible for me to put the close-button to the left ? :)
[23:37] <koliz> by changing the theme or so?
[23:37] <jhaig> I'm sure it is possible, but I don't know how.
[23:37] <yofel> koliz: sure, it's a gconf key
[23:38] <yofel> lemme search the backlog...
[23:38] <koliz> oh that sounds great! Cause since I'm coming from os x that would really make it easy for me not having to think at all :)
[23:38] <Volkodav> http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[23:38] <jhaig> koliz: I'm in the same situation as you - just looking at Lucid to see what it is like.
[23:39] <yofel> Volkodav was faster ^^
[23:39] <koliz> jhaig, it's great I tell you, other than those buttons. I switched to ubuntu at work a couple of months ago. Working out just fine really
[23:39] <Volkodav> they ask it 10 times a day every day
[23:39] <koliz> Volkodav, yofel, thanks alot
[23:39] <Volkodav> np
[23:41] <sirninja> Whenever my laptop wakes from suspend, it shows the login screen instead of what I had opened before. How do I fix this?
[23:44] <yofel> sirninja: should be somewhere in the power manager or screensaver settings (lock screen) (or does it completely log you out?)
[23:45] <sirninja> yofel: it completely logs me out
[23:45] <yofel> sounds like a bug in gdm then
[23:45] <kmsdbh_> hi
[23:46] <sirninja> yofel: has this already been reported as a bug?
[23:46] <yofel> sirninja: check on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm if it has been reported, if not report a bug with 'ubuntu-bug gdm'
[23:47] <yofel> sirninja: you are using gnome
[23:47] <yofel> ?
[23:47] <sirninja> yofel: yes
[23:47] <yofel> ok
[23:47] <BugsCrash> hi ,  Somebody help me about gma 500 on ubuntu 10.0.4 (acer 751/h) please (driver)
[23:47] <DasEi> BugsCrash: gma 500, is this a matrox card ?
[23:47] <yofel> BugsCrash: I don't know if the poulsbo chips have a driver
[23:48] <yofel> BugsCrash: try asking in #ubuntu-x
[23:48] <sirninja> yofel: in karmic I had to add "noapic" to my grub boot options for suspend to work. I tried that in lucid too, but it didn't work.
[23:48] <BugsCrash> poulsbo work on 9.04
[23:49] <yofel> BugsCrash: I know, but the driver is a mess and there isn't a driver available that works for the lucid X server afaik
[23:49] <kmsdbh_> Xorg just restart after I log into kubuntu karmic, and Xorg.0.log shows: PreInit returned NULL for ""Macintosh mouse button emulation""
[23:49] <yofel> BugsCrash: I might be wrong, the X team in #ubuntu-x will know more
 tanks , im try it
[23:50] <yofel> kmsdbh_: this channel is for Lucid Lynx (10.04) support, kubuntu karmic support is in #kubuntu
[23:50] <kmsdbh_> sorry, is lucid
[23:50] <yofel> ok, was wondering since this sounds vaguely familiar
[23:50] <Sarvatt> kmsdbh_: that message is harmless and means nothing, has nothing to do with whatever problem you're having
[23:50] <kmsdbh_> I upgraded my machine yesterday
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> ok, gonna past the log
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> *paste
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> http://pastebin.com/RwUwd1dp
[23:52] <kmsdbh_> really, the last line after the restart says "(II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch"
[23:53] <kmsdbh_> all the lines after line 867 are because of the reboot
[23:53] <FullPolarFox1981> all the lines after line 867 are because of the reboot
[23:53] <FullPolarFox1981> Hi-hihihihihih
[23:54] <CalmvsKhaos> FullPolarFox1981, ?
[23:54] <FullPolarFox1981> CalmvsKhaos Calm down)))
[23:54] <FullPolarFox1981> I am a Khaos
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Who are here?
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Nobody?
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Coll)))
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Cool)))
[23:56] <FullPolarFox1981> Wgat a bored channel
[23:56] <DasEi> FullPolarFox1981: you managed to get kicked and banned from debian, ubunut. ubuntu-offtopic, keep in mind you still need a way to reach any ops, if you go on like this
[23:57] <FullPolarFox1981> DasEi The Egg, please, back off :)
[23:57] <Sarvatt> kmsdbh_: why do you have gfxpayload=true in your kernel cmdline? nothing really interesting in that xorg log though, it's probably in dmesg if you wouldn't mind doing a dmesg | pastebinit
[23:57] <bazhang> FullPolarFox1981, please stay on topic
[23:57] <DasEi> FullPolarFox1981: np, I'll ignore you
[23:58] <FullPolarFox1981> DasEi Was ist np?
[23:58] <kmsdbh_> Sarvatt: there's nothing in dmesg
[23:58] <rww> FullPolarFox1981: np stands for No Problem
[23:58] <FullPolarFox1981> bazhang , please back off in ubuntu-offtopic
[23:58] <kmsdbh_> *nothing about Xorg
[23:59] <FullPolarFox1981> rww Thanks you! You are my hero!
[23:59] <bazhang> FullPolarFox1981, this is not a chat channel.
[23:59] <kmsdbh_> hmm gonna paste dmesg