[12:19] <Sepheebear> im a little confused, are the packages in universe going to be identical to debian with changes going up to debian first?
[12:20] <bddebian> Whenever possible
[12:23] <Sepheebear> ok but we still use malone? does that sync with debian bts?
[12:24] <bddebian> Nope
[12:24] <Sepheebear> o ok
[12:27] <lifeless> uhm
[12:27] <lifeless> malone will pull from debian bts
[12:29] <Sepheebear> oooo ok
[12:30] <\sh> lifeless: when? :)
[12:32] <lifeless> \sh: after main -> malone IIRC
[12:33] <\sh> lifeless: k..and what's the ETA of soyuz?
[12:34] <Seveas> 10.. 9.. 8.. 7.. 6.. 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. liftoff
[12:34] <Seveas> </midnight non-humor>
[12:34] <lifeless> \sh: with dapper as I understand it
[12:34] <\sh> lifeless: damn...I wanted to avoid this questions..now we have to wait one day more ,)
[12:35] <lifeless> \sh: #launchpad may have better answers
[12:35] <\sh> lifeless: nah..u should work .. i don't want to disturb
[12:37] <Sepheebear> what's soyuz? wiki link?
[12:37] <lifeless> soyuz is the launchpad based distro management suite
[12:38] <lifeless> like malone is the launchpad based bug tracking suite
[12:41] <Sepheebear> interesting
[12:43] <Sepheebear> lol STFUProtocol! https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzOneDotZero
[12:58] <sivang> bddebian: how do you keep up with debian's package changes to know you need to sync up, or apply a patch?
[12:59] <slomo> re
[12:59] <slomo> sivang: look at what has changed from old debian version to ubuntu version and look if these changes are still needed with the new debian version
[01:00] <sivang> slomo: ah, so that's basically having a debian chroot, install the package and check up. But if you do not use the specific software, how do you know it's changed?
[01:00] <slomo> sivang: no... only looking at the source packages
[01:01] <sivang> slomo: so you just randomly choose a package and see if it has problems/fixes etc?
[01:02] <slomo> sivang: wait... maybe i should read more than the last message before answering questions ;) what exactly was your question and in which context? ;)
[01:03] <slomo> sivang: you mean how to know if a package must be merged or can be synced... or how to get one package which needs to be looked at for merging or syncing?
[01:03] <sivang> slomo: the first part :)
[01:03] <slomo> ok, then i've answered the correct question... fine ;)
[01:03] <slomo> ok, this is what i do:
[01:04] <slomo> i get the plain (old) debian version, make a debdiff to our current version... take the current debian version of the package, look at the debdiff and check whether one of the changes needs to be applied again... if not -> sync, if there's at least one i readd all changes and upload this merged version
[01:05] <slomo> but when dapper is open and merge-o-matic is running again you will get all of this automatically and only need to judge if the automatically merged version is correct
[01:07] <sivang> slomo: I see, I wonder what writing something like merge-o-matic required, can you really decided programtically what to merge, and where to put the needed patch to merge?
[01:07] <slomo> yes... in most cases it works fine... wait, i'll search for some examples ;)
[01:08] <slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/monodoc/
[01:08] <slomo> look at this
[01:08] <Seveas> slomo, i'm working on hostname cloaks for Ubuntu members on freenode, do you want one?
[01:09] <slomo> Seveas: sure... i don't know what for but it can't hurt ;)
[01:09] <slomo> sivang: there you see some diffs... in REPORT it's explained what each of this diffs is good for
[01:09] <Seveas> slomo, ok :)
[01:10] <slomo> sivang: when you don't get a *-dropped diff everything should be fine and the -merged diff should be a good merge of debian's and our version... in other cases hand-merging of the dropped part is needed
[01:10] <sivang> slomo: REPORT is machine generated?
[01:10] <slomo> sivang: everything there is machine generated
[01:11] <sivang> slomo: that's nice, it looks rather "intelligent" :)
[01:11] <slomo> sivang: but i for one don't like merge-o-matic... i normally take the manual approach as explained above ;)
[01:11] <sivang> slomo: it sounds saner, but when you have loads of packages ...
[01:12] <slomo> sivang: and please don't "work" on the monodoc stuff ;) i already have a merged version here
[01:12] <sivang> slomo: don't worry :) I've been busy specing and doing launchapd stuff :)
[01:13] <slomo> sivang: yes but after doing some merges you normally know when merge-o-matic can be trusted and when it's better to do it by hand... for some stuff it can be really helping to use m-o-m ;)
[01:13] <slomo> sivang: i don't worry... but it would be bad if we do the same work two times ;)
[01:14] <slomo> Seveas: what must be done on my side for the hostname cloaking? nothing except authenticating? ;)
[01:14] <sivang> anyway, good night all
[01:14] <sivang> I'm going to sleep
[01:14] <slomo> gn8 sivang :)
[01:14] <Seveas> indeed, best is to use your nickserv password as server password
[01:15] <slomo> Seveas: hmm... please explain... or give me some urls to look at ;) what's the server password and why do i need it?
[01:16] <Seveas> in the server connect dialog you can enter a server password
[01:17] <Seveas> if you put your nickserv password there, you will be identified in time
[01:17] <Seveas> so your cloak actually works
[01:18] <slomo> ok, can i test it already?
[01:19] <Seveas> no
[01:20] <Seveas> it's all a manual process, I am now asking all members whether they want a cloak
[01:20] <Seveas> and in a few days I'll send lilo a list
[01:22] <slomo> ok
[04:05] <LaserJock> does anybody know when the next MOTU meeting will be ?
[04:06] <whiprush> LaserJock: there's a calendar on the fridge
[04:06] <whiprush> nevermind
[04:06] <whiprush> I don't see it on there.
[04:07] <ajmitch> because some useless slacker hasn't written up the minutes
[04:07] <LaserJock> I don't even remember if it was discussed but I think I kinda floated in and out at the end
[04:08] <ajmitch> it was discussed
[04:17] <Amaranth> is "Replaces: smeg, menueditor" the right way to say that a package replaces the smeg and menueditor pacakges?
[04:17] <Amaranth> or would i need two seperate lines?
[04:17] <Amaranth> also, if i have that and install the package it'll remove smeg, right?
[04:17] <ajmitch> Conflicts & Replaces if it fully replaces it
[04:17] <LaserJock> Amaranth: I think that one line is ok, but don't take my word for it ;-)
[04:18] <ajmitch> Replaces by itself says that some files are now owned by the new package
[04:18] <Amaranth> it does
[04:18] <Amaranth> ok, and this'll make smeg uninstall?
[04:18] <ajmitch> should do
[04:18] <ajmitch> assuming that something depends on alacarte
[04:18] <Amaranth> do i need Provides: smeg to make ubuntu-desktop happy (it depends on smeg)?
[04:18] <ajmitch> upgrade paths are always fun
[04:19] <ajmitch> best not to ask me what is best :)
[04:19] <ajmitch> see what was done for mozilla-firefox -> firefox for hoary->breezy
[04:19] <ajmitch> Replaces: mozilla-firefox (<< 1.0.7-0ubuntu20)
[04:19] <ajmitch> Provides: www-browser, mozilla-firefox
[04:19] <ajmitch> Conflicts: mozilla-firefox (<< 1.0.7-0ubuntu20)
[04:19] <Amaranth> fun
[04:20] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:20] <ajmitch> lots of fun
[04:20] <Amaranth> is the versioned conflict needed?
[04:20] <ajmitch> hopefully not
[04:20] <ajmitch> read some debian guides on this :)
[04:21] <Amaranth> heh
[04:21] <Amaranth> i guess i'll just go with trial and error
[04:21] <ajmitch> I haven't done it too often
[04:21] <ajmitch> Conflicts: gnue-forms-wxgtk (<= 0.5.11)
[04:21] <ajmitch> Replaces: gnue-forms-wxgtk (<= 0.5.11)
[04:22] <ajmitch> this is what I did for one of my packages
[04:22] <ajmitch> probably not correct :)
[04:22] <Amaranth> if no one finds any major bugs in alacarte i'm releasing 0.8 next week and need to have all of this figured out for the deb
[04:22] <Amaranth> i guess i'll do the version
[05:25] <LaserJock> at what point will we be able to do a dist-upgrade to dapper?
[05:26] <Lathiat> when it opens
[05:26] <Lathiat> sabdfl says if soyuz doesnt land by tuesday
[05:26] <Lathiat> we'll revert to katie
[05:26] <Lathiat> and switch later in the cycle
[05:27] <LaserJock> oh, ok so by tuesday the archives will have a dapper dist?
[05:27] <Lathiat> hopefully
[05:27] <LaserJock> ok, cool
[05:55] <Kyral> Yo!
[05:55] <LaserJock> How's it going Kyral?
[05:56] <Kyral> Just got back from an ACM Programming Contest in Montreal :D
[05:56] <LaserJock> ACM?
[05:57] <Kyral> Association of Computing Machinery
[05:57] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[05:57] <ajmitch> how'd you go?
[05:58] <Kyral> How'd I go or dow did it go?
[05:58] <Kyral> HOLY ****
[05:58] <Kyral> 117 emails from the Kernel devel list
[05:59] <ajmitch> is that all?
[05:59] <Amaranth> pfft, i get more than that from the gnome lists in 24 hours
[05:59] <Kyral> yah....
[06:03] <ajmitch> you should try debian-devel during a good flamewar
[06:03] <Kyral> No thanks
[06:04] <Amaranth> bleh, i unsubsribed from that around the time of the fork or not thing
[06:04] <Amaranth> it's a spoon, damnit!
[06:10] <LaserJock> lol
[06:17] <Kyral> Did Dapper open yet?
[06:18] <Amaranth> Kyral: read #ubuntu-devel topic ;)
[06:18] <Amaranth> but no, not yet
 sabdfl says if soyuz doesnt land by tuesday
 we'll revert to katie
 and switch later in the cycle
[06:20] <Kyral> WTF is that? Mr.Shuttleworth's personal code to attack MS?!
[06:21] <Amaranth> soyuz is the package building part of launchpad
[06:21] <Kyral> ah
[06:21] <Amaranth> katie is what has been used for warty, hoary, and breezy
[06:21] <Kyral> I was thinking Soyuz like the satellite
[06:22] <Amaranth> actually it's the name of the space ship he rode to the ISS in :)
[06:22] <Amaranth> well, the "model", i guess
[06:22] <Kyral> yah that ;P
[06:22] <Kyral> I knew it was a Russian Spacecraft
[06:22] <Kyral> you wanna see a stupid programming error?
[06:23] <Kyral> for( int i = 0; i < n; n++ )
[06:23] <Lathiat> whats stupid about that?
[06:24] <Amaranth> that could actually have a use
[06:24] <Lathiat> thats a very commonly used construct
[06:24] <Lathiat> oh
[06:24] <Lathiat> i see
[06:24] <Kyral> its an infinite loop
[06:24] <Lathiat> baha
[06:24] <Lathiat> it could be usefull
[06:24] <Lathiat> but probably not
[06:24] <Amaranth> i guess hal does this cool 1.5 loop thing, so i'd believe anything
[06:25] <Lathiat> lol
[06:25] <Lathiat> what does it do
[06:25] <Amaranth> and some of the other tricks i've seen
[06:25] <Kyral> but it like translate into a metaphor for a lot of things in the world
[06:25] <Kyral> or
[06:25] <Kyral> if ( n > 50 && n < 2/3 )
[06:27] <Amaranth> http://primates.ximian.com/~fejj/blog/archives/000033.html
[06:27] <LaserJock> is bugzilla still being used or is it completely replaced by Malone?
[06:28] <moyogo> LaserJock: bugzilla is still being used
[06:28] <moyogo> LaserJock: but new bugs only go to malone, i think
[06:29] <Lathiat> the idea is to phase bugzilla out in dapper
[06:29] <Lathiat> i think
[06:29] <Amaranth> afaik bugzilla is still the place to go for main bugs right now
[06:30] <Amaranth> i haven't seen a mail to the lists about using malone
[06:30] <Kyral> Hey I'm gonna be redoing my Wiki page tomorrow in prep for applying for Ubuntu Membership, anyone mind looking it over when I'm done and critiquing>
[06:31] <Amaranth> Kyral: if you've closed any bugs make sure you list them all by name (closed them by fixing them)
[06:31] <Amaranth> just a tip before you start
[06:32] <Kyral> Yah I've done that
[06:33] <Lathiat> include as much as possible
[06:33] <Lathiat> mailing lists
[06:33] <Lathiat> posts for uploads (breezy-changes archives)
[06:33] <Lathiat> wiki pages
[06:33] <Lathiat> bugs on both bugz & malone
[06:33] <Kyral> Like subscribed to?
[06:33] <Lathiat> a description of yourself
[06:33] <Lathiat> what you do outside ubuntu
[06:33] <Lathiat> what you want to do in ubuntu
[06:33] <ajmitch> Kyral: mailing list posts
[06:33] <Kyral> I haven't uploaded to Breezy Updates, not have power yet
[06:33] <ajmitch> they're looking for contributions to ubuntu
[06:33] <Lathiat> take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrentLloyd for an example
[06:33] <ajmitch> and 2 bugs on a wiki page wouldn't cut it IMHP
[06:33] <Kyral> Mez and someone else is supposed to upload them for me
[06:33] <Lathiat> Kyral: well, you may have gotten someone to add fixes for you
[06:33] <Lathiat> Kyral: or upload for you
[06:34] <Lathiat> Kyral: thats a good step
[06:34] <Kyral> ajmitch, Thats why I'm redoing it ;P
[06:34] <Kyral> Is REVU still in freeze?
[06:34] <ajmitch> Kyral: right, you said you had done that..
[06:34] <ajmitch> revu is never frozen
[06:34] <ajmitch> since it's not part of ubuntu
[06:34] <Kyral> yah and I fixed that versioning bug ;P
[06:35] <ajmitch> which was?
[06:35] <Kyral> The one I made?
[06:35] <Amaranth> oh dear, layoffs at novell
[06:35] <Kyral> Yanno how you told me I incremented the patch version wrong?
[06:35] <ajmitch> Kyral: sorry, but I don't recall all the bugs that I see
[06:36] <ajmitch> after seeing a number of them a day, they sort of fade out of memory
[06:36] <Kyral> sorry...
[06:36] <Kyral> Anyway I'm prolly gonna wait until gtkorphan gets pushed through REVU until I apply for membership
[06:37] <ajmitch> ok..
[06:37] <ajmitch> gtkorphan is something you packaged?
[06:37] <Kyral> Yah
[06:40] <ajmitch> please fix up debian/copyright
[06:40] <Kyral> eh?
[06:40] <ajmitch> Copyright (C) 2005 by Fabio Marzocca
[06:41] <Kyral> Oyah....
[06:41] <ajmitch> you need name & year put in properly
[06:41] <Kyral> Gotcha, will do :D
[06:41] <ajmitch> k :)
[06:41] <Kyral> I just figure having a package in Universe will look good on Ubuntu Membership
[06:41] <ajmitch> it helps
[06:42] <hub> ghawd
[06:42] <hub> I have to fix all these packages waiting on revu
[06:42] <hub> maybe tomorrow
[06:42] <hub> time for bed
[06:43] <ajmitch> night hub
[06:51] <Kyral> I should fire up Zen on this thing....
[06:52] <Kyral> err
[06:52] <Kyral> Xen ;P
[07:40] <Amaranth> goodnight all
[07:45] <Kyral> Night all
[09:05] <zakame> hi all
[09:11] <jmg> guys is any work being done in dapper for a new init scheme?
[09:12] <jmg> something to make stuff boot faster?
[09:12] <jmg> well, the os
[09:13] <zakame> jmg: hmmm, I think the guys at -devel know better, here at -motu work is on universe packages...
[09:30] <nnonix> I'm thinking of filing a big report for network-manager (which would be my first bug report) and wondered if someone (familiar with network-manager) here might want to check my logic before I do so? I've had no real feedback from ppl in #Ubuntu.
[09:30] <nnonix> correction "...a bug report for network-manager ...."
[09:30] <zakame> nnonix: what's it all about?
[09:31] <nnonix> ok, clean install of Breezy on a T42 laptop. absolutely no other network aplications installed ...
[09:31] <nnonix> I install network-manager from apt, which also installs bind as a dependancy ...
[09:32] <nnonix> upon reboot I get no name resolution but a restart of bind fixes that problem.
[09:32] <nnonix> bind starts on its own .... but then network-manager calls bind directly ....
[09:33] <nnonix> in checking my syslog I find this .... http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3495
[09:33] <nnonix> which indicates (to me anyway) that network-manager's direct call to bind conflicts with the normal bind process running already.
[09:35] <nnonix> Since the config file that network-manager uses to call bind directly is overwritten, there is no option to modify the bind call, therefore I figured it has to be a bug in the network-manager package.
[09:35] <nnonix> The crazy thing is, some don't have this problem, but I have found 3 other people in #Ubuntu over the past few days with the exact same problem.
[09:35] <nnonix> the end.
[09:36] <zakame> nnonix: hmmm... have you tried posting this on the -devel list?
[09:37] <nnonix> I have not.
[09:38] <nnonix> I wanted a 2nd opinion to make sure I wasn't missing something here.
[09:39] <zakame> hmmm... 3's a trend, so perhaps you ought to contact those other people who experienced that bug, and definitely post it on bugzilla
[09:39] <zakame> do you have a bugfix/patch for this?
[09:40] <nnonix> The fix (for me anyway) is to compile network-manager without bind support but still install bind9 as a dependancy.
[09:40] <nnonix> although i consider this more of a workaround
[09:41] <nnonix> I don't know if this would break someone in another configuration AND I would think the config used for the direct bind call could be modified so it does NOT conflict with the currently running bind process.
[09:42] <nnonix> so the short answer is no.
[09:42] <zakame> which is why bringing this up at the -devel list would do good :)
[09:43] <nnonix> ok,  I will do so, thanks.
[10:02] <zakame> no problem
[10:38] <sivang> morning all
[11:16] <ryu> moin
[12:24] <spayne> mornin' all
[12:24] <[Chameleon] > hi
[02:17] <herve> hello
[02:19] <tseng> i wonder if cedega will play civ4..
[02:29] <slomo> \sh: ping?
[03:16] <HiddenWolf> Hi, what do I need to be able to close a bug as invalid in malone?
[03:19] <HiddenWolf> \sh, dholbach?
[03:20] <HiddenWolf> NOTABUG: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/3195
[03:20] <HiddenWolf> INVALID (for now): https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/3119
[03:23] <HiddenWolf> NOTABUG: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/3229
[03:25] <\sh> HiddenWolf: rejected
[03:25] <\sh> with a reason why ;)
[03:25] <HiddenWolf> \sh, I'd like to be able to close these kinds of bugs myself, what do I need to do for that permission?
[03:27] <\sh> HiddenWolf: I think u have to be ubuntu-core-dev
[03:27] <\sh> HiddenWolf: i'm not sure...ask in #launchpad
[03:28] <HiddenWolf> hm
[03:28] <HiddenWolf> *grumble*
[03:47] <HiddenWolf> should be closed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/tor/+bug/1102
[04:14] <Kyral> Hiddenwolf it is closed
[04:14] <Kyral> its marked as Fixed
[04:15] <HiddenWolf> Kyral, yeah, someone got to it already
[04:15] <HiddenWolf> Kyral, and I just figured out I can do it myself.
[04:15] <Kyral> lol
[04:16] <Kyral> New around here?
[04:17] <HiddenWolf> Kyral, trying to find my way around the horrid UI that is malone.
[04:18] <Kyral> Its not to bad
[04:18] <HiddenWolf> I prefer bugzilla so far.
[04:18] <HiddenWolf> by far, in fact.
[04:19] <Kyral> I'm new on the bugbusters/MOTU-Wannabes scene so I've only used Malone
[04:20] <HiddenWolf> The information I want is there, but it is all scattered about.
[04:20] <HiddenWolf> it's been oversimplified too much to my taste.
[04:33] <herve> everything I forget you must click on the package name to have access to secret options!
[04:35] <herve> HiddenWolf, we can close 3486 because kcheckgmail was upgraded?
[04:35] <herve> or change the status?
[04:35] <Kyral> Make sure it works
[04:35] <HiddenWolf> herve, I have no idea what the guy means
[04:36] <HiddenWolf> herve, I don't use kcheckgmail myself, but if it's a newer version, then yeah, i say close it.
[04:36] <HiddenWolf> debian has 0.5.4, we have 0.5.3a-1-build1
[04:36] <HiddenWolf> I'm guessing he says it works in .4 but not in .3
[04:38] <herve> that "build" means the debian package will go through when we open dapper and autosync
[04:38] <herve> so I can close it I think
[04:39] <HiddenWolf> herve, don't do that before it's actually fixed, or things will be forgotten. :)
[04:40] <herve> we don't even know what to fix!
[04:40] <herve> or he'll file a new report on the most recent version
[04:40] <HiddenWolf> *chuckle* Give him a while to clarify. :)
[04:41] <herve> ok, cancelling my edit :-)
[04:49] <herve> 3229 closed
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> herve, he had a piont there. firefox should be shipped with that human theme.
[04:51] <herve> 3119 too
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> or rather, firefox should be crashed, burned, and replaced with epiphany, but still.
[04:52] <herve> hell no
[04:52] <herve> but I made a test
[04:52] <herve> firefox followed my coloured theme as possible as it could
[04:52] <HiddenWolf> herve, and shame on you for stealing my karma. ;)
[04:52] <herve> and I don't have that gnomefx theme
[04:52] <herve> I'll buy you a beer ;-)
[04:53] <HiddenWolf> Do the french have decent beer?
[04:54] <Mortas> ehm do the french have beer?
[04:54] <herve> I can't believe what I read!
[04:54] <herve> :-)
[04:54] <\sh> herve: kick them ,-)
[04:55] <herve> 3195 closed
[04:55] <HiddenWolf> \sh, watch it, I bite. :)
[04:55] <\sh> i mean ... paris == france, but france != paris ,-) so i think in some areas u'll get good beer and not this heineken stuff
[04:56] <HiddenWolf> \sh, heineken sucks, agreed. :)
[04:56] <sivang> \sh: heineken is considered one of the best beers in .IL :)
[04:56] <herve> is heineken beer, I can't prove it
[04:56] <herve> and yes, Paris is a bad idea anyway
[04:56] <HiddenWolf> herve, no, it's pilsener.
[04:56] <\sh> sivang: well...u should try *real* beer ,-)
[04:56] <HiddenWolf> \sh, what do you consider real beer? :)
[04:56] <sivang> \sh: lol
[04:57] <\sh> HiddenWolf: krombacher pils (german) tschech budwiser, or even irish beer
[04:57] <\sh> HiddenWolf: or milk stout from ZA ,)
[04:57] <HiddenWolf> \sh, You've got serious gaps in your education. :)
[04:58] <\sh> HiddenWolf: but warsteiner, becks or heineken is no beer at all ,-)
[04:58] <\sh> the dark millers in NC, US was also quite nice...
[04:58] <HiddenWolf> \sh, compared to Budweiser, it's beer, trust me. ;)
[04:58] <\sh> HiddenWolf: I'm not talking about US budweiser ,-)
[05:00] <Mortas> please gentlemen, watch your language
[05:00] <HiddenWolf> I usually stick to Dutch or Belgium premium brands. :)
[05:00] <Mortas> budweiser, blech
[05:00] <\sh> pilsner urquell..i don't know the english name is my fav
[05:06] <Mortas> hmm
[05:06] <Mortas> do others also have the 'RequestExpired' issue when logged in on Launchpad and trying to see the motu assignedbugs
[05:06] <Mortas> I'm starting to get this urge to torture mallone by now
[05:10] <HiddenWolf> I'm aching for dapper. :)
[05:48] <xhaker> hey doko
[05:48] <xhaker> you there?
[05:51] <ivoks> hi
[05:54] <xhaker> hey
[05:55] <xhaker> ivoks, do you happen to know how to use doko's rep for openoffice?
[05:55] <ivoks> yes
[05:56] <ivoks> sudo -s ; echo "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2 ./" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:56] <ivoks> apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade
[05:57] <xhaker> hehe
[05:57] <xhaker> didn't know that ./ trick
[05:57] <xhaker> lol
[05:57] <xhaker> thanks
[05:58] <ivoks> np
[05:58] <ivoks> no one here?
[05:59] <ivoks> everybody is on a flight to montreal ;......(
[05:59] <herve> no :-(
[05:59] <herve> hi ivoks
[06:00] <ivoks> hi herve
[06:00] <ivoks> long time no see
[06:00] <ivoks> how are you?
[06:00] <herve> quite fine
[06:00] <ivoks> nice
[06:00] <herve> and you? you returned to school?
[06:00] <ivoks> in mart i'll come to france, once again :)
[06:01] <ivoks> returned? never left :))
[06:01] <ivoks> i got a job at redhat partner in croatia :/
[06:01] <ivoks> but i'm deploying ubuntu :)
[06:01] <herve> why? that's nice
[06:01] <herve> hehe
[06:02] <ivoks> what why? :)
[07:05] <herve> bazaar bugs seem ignored, sad
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> herve, I'm pretty sure that all the canonical guys are working on Launchpad atm, to make sure it's workable for dapper.
[07:18] <Mortas> at least we hope so
[07:22] <HiddenWolf> otherwise, just bug the hell out of the bazaar guys. :)
[07:23] <ogra> luckily not *all* the canonical guys, only the launchpad team ;)
[07:23] <HiddenWolf> heh
[07:24] <HiddenWolf> well, if this launchpad migration doesn't go well, dapper will get nowhere very quickly. :)
[07:24] <Mortas> is there anything usefull I could do except bug triaging
[07:24] <Mortas> it's hurting what's left of my brain by now
[07:25] <HiddenWolf> Mortas, translate, or make me some freevo packages. :)
[07:25] <Mortas> translating good point
[07:25] <Mortas> although my written dutch sucks, but I could give it a try
[07:26] <HiddenWolf> I'd rather see the packages. :)
[07:26] <Mortas> hehe
[07:27] <HiddenWolf> There's a fix out that'll make it work with python 2.4, but there are no new debs
[07:27] <Mortas> ooh shiney
[07:27] <Mortas> hmm I wanted to get me a tv tuner card anyway
[07:27] <HiddenWolf> Mortas, it isn't quite sane, but it's less cracked up than tvtime. :)
[07:27] <HiddenWolf> eh, mythtv
[07:28] <Mortas> ehm wait, it's almost my birthday, I'm gonna get someone else to buy me a tv tuner
[07:29] <Mortas> oh right, there was this 'I want this in universe' list of packages
[07:29] <Mortas> yay, let's give that a poke
[08:12] <Kyral> Hey all
[08:21] <Kyral> Hey I have a question about were to direct a very serious bug, but its not with software...
[08:24] <herve> bugtracking people? :-)
[08:24] <Kyral> no..
[08:25] <Kyral> its more like a couple people I know who have the same video card in their laptops have had it "burn out" completely after installing Ubuntu
[08:26] <herve> wow
[08:26] <Kyral> to the point were they had to send the laptop back to the manufacturer for a replacement
[08:26] <Kyral> I know its a PCI Express ATI card, but thats it....
[08:27] <herve> it may depends at which moment the burn occured
[08:27] <herve> e.g., kernel initialisation or xorg startup
[08:27] <Kyral> I'm really worried about this, partially because I was the one who urged one of them to install Ubuntu (and it was thier first Linux experiance)
[08:29] <herve> I'm thinking more people would have complained
[08:29] <herve> what is the manufacturer name?
[08:29] <Kyral> I know one was an Acer
[08:29] <Kyral> I dunno about the other ones
[08:29] <herve> ho, not the same one
[08:30] <Kyral> I know the latest series of kernels (<IP_ADDRESS>) has PCI Express support
[08:30] <Kyral> but I don't know about Breezy's kernels
[08:30] <herve> that still could be a bad batch (?) in the ATI production
[08:30] <herve> I can't say
[08:30] <Kyral> I don't know, I asked my friend who I know who had the problem to gather info from the other people
[08:30] <Kyral> Before I draft up an email to send to the Devel list
[08:31] <herve> I'll say check for bugs in bugzilla at first
[08:31] <herve> and open one against the kernel
[08:31] <herve> it will be reasigned if you got the wrong component
[08:32] <Kyral> Yah this is why I'm asking him to gather much info
[08:32] <Kyral> So I can scan the lists
[08:32] <Kyral> I don't use PCI-E or ATI so I can't try it out
[08:33] <Kyral> I kinda feel responsible for this one....
[08:34] <herve> I can imagine
[08:34] <Kyral> I can't imagine its just on Ubuntu though...
[08:35] <herve> it's not even like they chose the wrong option and erased their windows partition
[08:35] <Kyral> Its most likely X or the Kernel
[08:35] <herve> that could be a patch we only have
[08:35] <herve> or only miss
[08:35] <Kyral> Next time I'll compile a custom version of the <IP_ADDRESS> for them
[08:36] <Kyral> enable all modules and options for full hardware support
[08:36] <herve> they're eager to try again? :-)
[08:37] <Kyral> One is, if I can prove that its fixed
[08:38] <Kyral> I mean he lit up when I installed Breezy Preview (Been trying Hoary previously) and everything WORKED
[08:46] <JanC> I have PCIE ATI laptop graphics (X700)
[08:46] <JanC> works fine here...
[08:46] <Treenaks> for me too
[08:46] <Treenaks> fglrx only though
[08:46] <Treenaks> ati breaks horribly, I'll show that to daniels next week :)
[08:46] <JanC> even worked on joary after a lot fiddling & googling
[08:46] <Kyral> we had fglrx installs
[08:46] <JanC> hoary
[08:47] <JanC> works with both ati & fglrx on hoary & breezy here, but not out-of-the-box on hoary  ;)
[08:48] <JanC> there are other X-cards from ATI
[08:49] <JanC> X500, X600, X800 & X900 IIRC  :)
[08:49] <Treenaks> XXX
[08:49] <JanC> and probably more
[08:50] <JanC> Acer and a lot of other laptop manufacturers use the same laptop model with other options (you can even buy a barebone version of it)
[08:51] <Kyral> hmm...
[08:51] <Kyral> Should I email someone if I wanna change an Ubuntu Wiki Page they made?
[08:52] <JanC> no, unless you think it's really important, or you're not sure about it
[08:52] <Kyral> I'm not sure...
[08:52] <Kyral> I wanna merge this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TerminalHowto?highlight=%28Terminal%29
[08:52] <JanC> you can always add a comment...
[08:53] <Kyral> with my Terminal For Beginners Guide on the Ubuntu Forums http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=402620
[08:53] <JanC> hm, that wiki page is a bit outdated   :)
[08:53] <Kyral> Yah thats what I thought
[08:54] <JanC> Terminal is in another location
[08:54] <Treenaks> Kyral: Terminal for beginners? Just google for Bash for Beginners :)
[08:54] <JanC> Treenaks: that's not the same...
[08:54] <Kyral> Treenaks, the people on the ABT Forum loved it ;P
[08:54] <Treenaks> JanC: "how to use the command line"
[08:54] <Kyral> I couldn't get it stickied so I thought I'd wiki it ;P
[08:55] <JanC> Treenaks: which is again something different  ;)
[08:55] <JanC> but probably a better description of the howto
[08:55] <Kyral> Treenaks: Put yourself as a fresh Windows user
[08:55] <Kyral> In this unknown Linux landscape
[08:56] <Kyral> Are you gonna know what BASH is? ;P
[08:56] <Treenaks> Kyral: when I was a fresh Windows user, Windows 3.1 was just new, and I had been running DOS for years
[08:56] <Kyral> okay, a MODERN Windows user ;P
[08:56] <JanC> I started with Windows 2.01   :)
[08:56] <Kyral> You all know what I mean....
[08:57] <JanC> Kyral: I knew when I first came to linux, but I agree most won't have a clue  :)
[08:57] <Kyral> Check out my guide. People seemed to like it ;D
[08:58] <JanC> I will look at it later
[08:58] <JanC> have to go now
[08:59] <Kyral> Yah I need HALO
[08:59] <Kyral> I'll email the guy to be nice
[09:09] <herve> bye
[09:10] <tseng> anyone seen j^


[00:12] <mwhudson> Maxel: the package is called linux-image-4.4.0-128-generic
[00:32] <Maxel> how much space in my boot partition should I need to do the upgrade to 18.04?
[00:32] <Maxel> and should I be able to upgrade without any issues?
[00:32] <sarnold> guessing, ~250 megs ought to be enough
[01:39] <Maxel> hmm, trying to do the upgrade right nwo and it says I need to download 563mb
[01:39] <Maxel> I've got about 260m free on /boot/, but I only have 400m total
[01:42] <sarnold> is /boot also on the filesystem that will receive all the downloaded packages? that'd be quite strange..
[01:42] <sarnold> well, no, not really, but .. having only 400m free on / might be a serious crimp in the upgrade :)
[01:44] <Maxel> I'm not actually sure where this will download to
[01:44] <Maxel> I just assumed it would go to boot since every time I do apt upgrade, it fills up /boot
[01:44] <sarnold> hehe
[01:45] <Maxel> I'm just worried about blowing up my install, I assume it should be capable of aborting if it doesn't have necessary space
[01:46] <sarnold> I think for 'easy' filesystem layouts it probably can handle it; but it probably assumes most package contents will be unpacked onto /
[01:46] <Maxel> alright, giving it a shot
[01:59] <Maxel> well this is not good
[02:00] <Maxel> "ing" keeps printing to the screen
[02:02] <sarnold> that does sound bad.
[02:05] <Maxel> was a window error, but when I pressed enter it selected some option
[02:05] <Maxel> I think I'm upgrade, lsb_releases -a says I'm on 18.04.2
[02:07] <Maxel> I just don't know what I selected for a setting in that menu
[02:07] <sarnold> what versions do you get from: dpkg -l bash systemd
[02:11] <Maxel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QMrHnJjJTz/
[02:14] <sarnold> well, that's good and bad. the versions look good, but the 'it' rather than 'ii' means something went wrong partway through
[02:14] <Maxel> yeah, I haven't restarted yet
[02:14] <Maxel> not sure if that would be a good idea or not
[02:15] <sarnold> try dpkg --configure -a   and   apt-get install -f  -- those can often either dislodge errors, or show you an error message to tackle next
[02:16] <Maxel> dpkg: error: dpkg frontend is locked by another process
[02:17] <Maxel> I have a suspicion that some process got backgrounded that is still finishing the install
[02:19] <sarnold> aha!
[02:19] <sarnold> it is run in screen, perhaps you just need to reattach to the screen session
[02:20] <Maxel> what's the command for that?
[02:21] <sarnold> back when I used screen I used screen -RAD
[02:21] <Maxel> hmm, cleared out the screen, didn't seem to reattach to anything
[02:23] <sarnold> try control-A, followed by l  (ell)
[02:24] <Maxel> no dice
[02:25] <sarnold> how about control-A 0, control-A 1, etc ?
[02:27] <Maxel> well ctl-a isn't sending a signal at all it seems
[02:27] <Maxel> I'm using a vmware remote console to do this, closest I get to a keyboard plugged into a machine
[02:28] <Maxel> oh f, accidentally restarted the server.... welp lets see what happens
[02:28] <Maxel> yeah, disaster, cant mount fs
[02:29] <sarnold> uhoh :/
[02:29] <Maxel> I haven't tried this function out, but I'm going to see if I can revert my vm image
[02:29] <Maxel> hopefully it works
[02:29] <Maxel> made a snapshot before I tried the upgrade out
[02:30] <sarnold> lets hope it's happy with that :)
[02:30] <sarnold> if the machine was mostly quiet then it'll probably be fine.. but databases sometimes don't take that kind of treatment well
[02:31] <Maxel> reverted super fast, seems to be back to a good state
[03:51] <Maxel> alright, got it upgraded I think
[03:51] <Maxel> but now the upgraded os isn't mounting my drive I had connection correctly before
[03:51] <Maxel> I'm not sure how to debug this though
[03:53] <Maxel> "wrong fs type, bad option, bad superbloc
[03:53] <Maxel> it's a drive controlled by a raid card
[07:14] <DK2> what could be the cause when network installation of ubuntu 16.04 runs fine but after bootup of the system there are no nic found by ubuntu_
[07:21] <DK2> theres only LO
[07:23] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:38] <DK2> theres no /lib/modules/4.4.0-142-generic/drivers in the installation
[12:41] <gunix> does anybody know if docker just got removed from microk8s in the last updates?
[13:01] <ahasenack> rbasak: I have an FTBFS in package X, that is fixed by patching a bug in a build-dep Y. Is it common to add the version of Y that has the fix in X's build-deps line?
[13:02] <ahasenack> it will be an ubuntu release, i.e., <n>ubuntu<m> version at the end
[13:06] <teward> hmm... I think I discovered a bug in the live installer.. o.O
[13:06] <teward> 18.04.2, it boots without an Internet connection then crash-loops the subiquity installer when I try and set the <IP_ADDRESS>/16 subnet with a search domain... hmmmm
[14:04] <sdeziel> weird discovery of the day: pgrep depends on systemd, lzma, lz4, gcrypt and gpg libs ... who would have thought
[14:23] <rbasak> ahasenack: no, I specifically avoid doing things like that.
[14:23] <rbasak> ahasenack: it stops things like cherry-picks from working if the bugfix is backported.
[14:24] <rbasak> The way I see it is: the versioned relationships are for a hypthetically bug-free version of what you're referring to
[14:24] <rbasak> I'm sure there are exceptions where it's needed, but in the general case IMHO it creates more problems than it solves
[14:27] <ahasenack> ok
[14:27] <ahasenack> and I would SRU Y (from above example) at the same time as X
[14:28] <rbasak> That should be fine I think. If it fails due to the race then the retry button can be used once the race is resolved.
[14:34] <micmac> Hi
[14:34] <blackflow> o/
[14:35] <micmac> so I have to upgrade a 14.04.6 LTS server to 16.04.6 LTS. according to the discussion we had on #ubuntu, it may take me some time to improve my setup first (setting the right DNS entries and so on)
[14:36] <micmac> and I'm a little busy right now, so I may have to wait some time before upgrading
[14:36] <micmac> is there a risk keeping the server on 14.04.6 LTS version for some time, although it says the HWE is supported until april this year ?
[14:37] <micmac> it's not an internet server, just a local server
[14:37] <micmac> small company
[14:39] <blackflow> well it wont' stop working on april 25st :) it only means you won't be getting any new updates.
[14:39] <micmac> harware related, or any update
[14:39] <blackflow> (unless you subscribe to ESM thatis)
[14:39] <micmac> *hardware
[14:39] <blackflow> any update.
[14:39] <micmac> wow ok
[14:40] <micmac> I don't think I'm really at risk here, but I guess I won't wait monthes
[14:46] <blackflow> micmac: that's what I said for the last FreeBSD server in our fleet. it's still 11.1, hasn't been updated since summer. "Oh just a few weeks, we're migrating to Ubuntu anyway".
[14:49] <micmac> blackflow: heh, I don't know how long it will take but I'll do it
[15:07] <DammitJim> is all software from main repos free for use
[15:07] <DammitJim> ?
[15:08] <Pici> Yes.
[15:08] <Pici> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories#Main
[15:15] <sdeziel> DammitJim: AFAIK, every piece of software from the archive is free ($) to use
[15:20] <tomreyn> that's if you have an intel cpu
[15:22] <tomreyn> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/27591/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File Version: 20180312 (which is apparently in 18.04.2) states "This Software is licensed for use only in conjunction with Intel component products. Use of the Software in conjunction with non-Intel component products is not licensed hereunder.". I run an AMD system, and i think this package was installed automatically (from main) here.
[15:23] <tomreyn> i recall there was a lot of discussion about this, though, and maybe you (and I, as a user) were granted an exception.
[15:24] <tomreyn> also there was a notion that this is not software in the ubuntu sense (it apparently is in intels') and thus doesn't need to be free to be in main.
[15:28] <blackflow> tomreyn: obvs you're not using intel microcode on AMD cpu, even if the package is installed.
[15:29] <blackflow> as for the "free for use" question above, I'd point out "within the confinement of what individual licenses allow". "free" usually implies "do what you want", that's why GNU folks prefer "libre" instead.
[15:29] <tomreyn> blackflow: i have it installed, but don't have a license to it, maybe you're right in that 'use' is the relevant word there and it refers to 'running', not to 'installing'/'downloading'
[15:32] <blackflow> pretty sure "use" means actually using the software, ie. running it. there'd be a lot more rioting from distros if it didn't.
[15:32] <blackflow> as it was with the benchmarking limitation which they promptly removed, following a minor uprising with pitchforks in the linux community.
[15:33] <blackflow> tomreyn: and if you wanna go into such detail, then be wary of the nvidia proprietary license which only allows ONE instance of the driver installed per physical machine.
[15:34] <tomreyn> that's not in main, though
[15:36] <tomreyn> the latest intel-microcode version in bionic is actually 3.20180807a.0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> which doesn't have this license restrictions.


[11:48] <duanedesign> good morning!
[11:53] <rye> duanedesign, morning!
[12:05] <nhoglund> I bought an album in the music store, and a couple of days later, Rhythmbox still says Queued on every other track, and those files have not appeared in the web interface file list. Any idea on what to do next?
[12:17] <rye> nhoglund, hi
[12:17] <rye> jdobrien, ping
[12:17] <rye> nhoglund, could you please tell when was purchase made?
[12:20] <somethinginteres> hi all, does anyone have any idea why Ubuntu One might be adding .u1conflict to the end of some file names in my documents folder?
[12:20] <nhoglund> rye, I think it was Friday last week, or maybe Saturday.
[12:21] <nhoglund> I've found bug 551755 that appears related, but it is marked as fixed.
[12:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 551755 in ubuntuone-servers (and 1 other project) "some of my songs still haven't downloaded (affects: 91) (dups: 5) (heat: 401)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551755
[12:22] <rye> somethinginteres, this may happen when the files were modified on several machines simultaneously
[12:22] <somethinginteres> rye, I have 2 machines synced and the documents have been edited on both at different times but not at the same time
[12:24] <rye> somethinginteres, the other possibility is that the changes to the documents were not synced in time so when you started editing documents on the first machine the latest version was assigned to the first one. Then when second machine was started the sync process tried to upload the changes and failed due to conflict
[12:25] <rye> nhoglund, could you please run http://people.canonical.com/~roman.yepishev/ubuntuone-scripts/ubuntuone-account-info and paste it privately to me - I will make sure i poke jdobrien when he becomes available and will ask about the status.
[12:25] <somethinginteres> is there a way I can make sure the version I am working on now is gets synced?
[12:26] <nhoglund> rye, I'm at work at the moment and don't have my password along with me.
[12:26] <nhoglund> rye, would you be able to look up what you need from just my e-mail address (nhoglund on gmail), or shall I get back later?
[12:27] <rye> nhoglund, if that email is used for ubuntu one login / single sign on then yes, this is sufficient
[12:27] <nhoglund> It is.
[12:28] <duanedesign> somethinginteres: lit will sync both versions. You will have to open each and decide which to keep. Either throw away the conflict, or the one without the  .conflict
[12:29] <rye> duanedesign, files that have .u1conflict suffix are not synced to ubuntu one
[12:30] <somethinginteres> at this stage I want to sync the .conflict - should I then remove the "old" file and just remove the .conflict from the file name?
[12:30] <duanedesign> rye: ahh, yes. it will save both. Not sync both
[12:30] <duanedesign> somethinginteres: that is correct
[12:30] <rye> nhoglund, ok, so to summarize - the tracks appear to be "Queued" since Friday last week / Saturday
[12:30] <duanedesign> somethinginteres: once you remove .conflict it will sync
[12:31] <somethinginteres> ok thanks I'll give it a whirl
[12:35] <nhoglund> rye, yes, and only half of them have appeared under "files" in the web interface
[12:36] <somethinginteres> that worked fine, is there anything specific I can look out for to make sure this doesn't happen too often? It seems to be happening a fair bit lately
[12:36] <nhoglund> rye, those that still show as Queued with a spinning wheel haven't shown up there
[12:37] <nhoglund> I think it was Saturday.
[13:10] <CardinalFang> Hey hey!
[13:14]  * duanedesign waves at CardinalFang
[19:30] <Bookman> Ubuntuone is choking my internet connection.  Everytime I start up the computer, I have the Limit Bandwidth Usage set to 2048 KB/s.  I reset it to 64 KB/s, but it still chokes my connection and upon restart, it goes back to 2048 KB/s.  How to solve this?
[19:34] <Bookman> Right now I get around it by terminating the service.....
[19:39] <Bookman> Actually I cannot even disconnect from the service today!  I had to kill it
[19:55] <duanedesign> Bookman: are you using Karmic or Lucid?
[20:01] <Bookman> duanedesign, Lucid
[20:04] <Bookman> duanedesign, It also happens on my Karmic machine.
[20:06] <duanedesign> Bookman: might look ast bug 509740
[20:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 509740 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Maximum upload speed does not save consistently in client GUI (affects: 16) (dups: 12) (heat: 75)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509740
[20:08] <Bookman> duanedesign, Good enough.  I will uninstall on all of my machines until this is fixed.
[20:08] <Bookman> Thanks!
[20:09] <duanedesign> Bookman: you can always set the value manually in the conf file
[20:10] <duanedesign> Bookman: ~/.config/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[20:10] <Bookman> nah, this should work properly by default.  Not a big deal.
[20:11] <Bookman> Maybe it will be fixed properly for the next LTS version
[21:19] <badwolf_blaze> i attempted to purchase an album from ubuntuone, i got all but one song. when i looked at the troubleshoot section it said to contact 7digital.com. now they're telling me to get help with it here. so, what's next?
[21:22] <dobey> badwolf_blaze: what version of ubuntuone-client do you have installed?
[21:25] <badwolf_blaze> version 1.2.1 ubuntu-3
[21:26] <badwolf_blaze> *oubuntu3
[21:26] <dobey> have you rebooted or logged out and back in, since that update got installed?
[21:26] <badwolf_blaze> yes, several times
[21:27] <dobey> hmm, ok. what does it say on the downloads page in the music store?
[21:27] <badwolf_blaze> i've checked my online storage though and it doesn't show it there either
[21:27] <badwolf_blaze> just that there is a problem completing the download
[21:28] <dobey> alecu: ping. :)
[21:29] <msknight> Hi. Anyone able to help with an Ubuntu One downloading issue please?
[21:29] <hewbass> Here's a wierd one: having a fairly 'early' ubuntu one account, my desktop-couch (contacts) is now replicating to the servers... but only in that direction. Updates do not seem to be coming back from the ubuntuone servers to my local desktop-couch...
[21:31] <msknight> Here's the thing. I bought a 60 track album, "Chilled Acoustic." One track won't download," Feel AM - Lindstrøm & Prins Thomas" The help says that if it won't download, contact 7digital, which I did. They say "We're sorry but this issue would be better addressed by the Ubuntu One team" so here I am.
[21:32] <badwolf_blaze> msknight, does the track show up in your online storage?
[21:32] <msknight> Nope.
[21:32] <badwolf_blaze> yeah, i'm having the exact same issue.
[21:32] <msknight> Five other tracks wouldn't come down, but they were in the online storage, so I wasn't worried about them. Just this one track that's stuck.
[21:33] <msknight> Personally, I think it's 7Digital's issue, but they don't seem to want to know.
[21:33] <badwolf_blaze> yeah, i'm with you on that one
[21:35] <badwolf_blaze> i'm going to email 7digital back and just tell them that after checking here i was told to contact them
[21:36] <badwolf_blaze> and then just download the song that i'm missing from limwire, at least that was you know if you get it
[21:36] <badwolf_blaze> *way
[21:36] <msknight> I'm already writing an e-mail myself saying, "Hey, I'm the customer here. If there's something that needs working out ... you and Ubuntu One sort it out. I just want my music."
[21:37] <msknight> YOu know ... if they come back to me with more attitude, I think I'll file a dispute with my credit card company.
[21:38] <badwolf_blaze> good plan, i'm gonig to follow suit
[21:43] <badwolf_blaze> good luck msknight! :)
[21:44] <msknight> Oh, man ... how stupid.  They can't even generate an automatic response e-mail properly.  I mean, even after you've stripped out the extra http://www.7digital.comhttp://www.7digital.c ...etc. the URL doesn't work!
[21:45] <msknight> There's no way to add extra content to your case!
[21:45] <msknight> Oh man, these 7digital people must be complete amatures ... either that or they are pile it high sell it cheap and don't give a flying about the customers.
[21:49] <duffydack> msknight, does it not offer any downloads from the site itself?  I thought it had like 3 downloads limit
[21:50] <duffydack> and the cloud was just a convenient way of downloading your music as many times as you like.
[21:50] <msknight> UbuntuOne users can't do that, apparently, if you believe their help.
[21:50] <duffydack> odd... The last purchase I made was for something they didnt have, so Ive never used it yet.
[21:51] <msknight> When you buy a track, the 7Digital service transfers it directly to your cloud storage. Once there, the second stage is that it is downloaded to your PC.  If the second stage fails, that's OK, 'cause its in the cloud. But if it doesn't do the first stage all you can do is keep clicking on the "retry" link ... and if that doesn't work, it looks like 7Digital don't want to know.
[21:52] <duffydack> It does seem like the service was launched way before it was ready, which is a shame...
[21:53] <duffydack> It wont look good on Ubuntu if new users try it out and get this trouble..
[21:54] <msknight> Ah, everything gets its teething problems.  The real test is how a company response when the s**t hits the fan. So far, 7Digital are putting forward a very pungent odour.
[21:54] <msknight> "responds"
[21:55] <duffydack> I know stuff has its problems, but you dont push a service out thats asking for peoples money without first making sure it actually works.
[21:55] <duffydack> I may make a purchase just to test it for myself..its only a few pennies :)
[21:56] <kklimonda> duffydack: well, it's marked beta for a reason
[21:56] <msknight> I did download a couple of smaller albums, only nine or ten tracks. This Classic album is sixty tracks.
[21:57] <msknight> The smaller albums had no trouble.
[22:03] <msknight> kklimonda; all the more reason that they should be ready to catch this sort of thing and not play pass the blame parcel.
[22:04] <kklimonda> msknight: I think you just shouldn't contact 7d at all and instead contact u1 developers directly.
[22:07] <msknight> OK, let's take a look at the one.ubuntu.com/support page.  First we start with software installation and configuration instructions. Also some tutorials. Then a list of FAQ's and the bug filing process.  A knowledge base and then the user based chat. The opportunity to file a bug if the problem has not previously been reported and then the billing assistance form. Oh, and the links for twitter and their blog.
[22:08] <msknight> So, if my bug has already been filed, they won't look at my own bug report. This is a technical issue, not a billing issue ... but it is looking like this is going to be my only way of contacting a human being on the U1 team for any kind of support.
[22:08] <kklimonda> and, for immediate help, there is irc :)
[22:09] <msknight> Well, I stated my issue forty minutes ago. Not one person from U1 has so far come forward and identified themselves ... let alone offered a solution.
[22:10] <msknight> As a customer in trouble, I'm really feeling shut out here.
[22:12] <msknight> My original contact with 7Digital was three or four days ago. Granted, it was over a weekend, but this is a long time to get back to a customer who needs help. And to only offer a blame point to U1 and a malformed, failure of a response URL ... man, this sucks.
[22:13] <kklimonda> well, that indeed is a problem - most developers live and work in the EU timezone so it's already around midnight for them. I wonder if honk will help
[22:13] <msknight> What's honk?
[22:13] <kklimonda> honk is a honk :)
[22:13] <msknight> OK, I'm game.
[22:13] <msknight> It can't get much worse !
[22:13] <msknight> honk
[22:13] <kklimonda> I think it's a word developers' irc clients are set for
[22:14] <kklimonda> so they blink or something when you say it
[22:14] <kklimonda> if it doesn't help then they are all asleep
[22:14] <msknight> honk, honk, honketty honketty honk, honk!
[22:14] <kklimonda> meh, once is enough :)
[22:14] <msknight> ROTFL! Ah, this is cool.
[22:15] <msknight> It's 10:16pm here in the UK.
[22:15] <msknight> You know; I forgot how IRC had its own magic.
[22:23] <statik> hey pfibiger, can you help msknight with the music download problem?
[22:23] <statik> msknight, our system noticed a handful of failed music downloads earlier today and we're still trying to track them down
[22:23] <statik> sorry for your trouble
[22:24] <statik> pfibiger will probably be able to look at the errors in the system log and help sort it all out
[22:24] <msknight> statik, thanks for coming in and helping. This is a failed download from... um, last Thursday or Friday.
[22:24] <statik> ah, ok. hopefully we can fix that too
[22:24] <msknight> Cool! You just might have made my night.
[22:25] <statik> we're going to get to zero failures one of these days soon! it's down to a very very low error rate right now. not that it makes you feel any better that everyone got their music and you didn't :)
[22:25] <msknight> Yes, original purchase made last Thursday evening. The download was slow so I went to bed. Next morning, about six tracks had failed.  The "retry" feature brought all but one in to the cloud, where I could get them, but this one track remains stubourn.
[22:26] <statik> ah, interesting. we'll definitely want to dig in on our side and get the exact error then
[22:26] <msknight> The help text on the system said to contact 7digital in event of download failures, which I did. It took until about an hour-ish ago to get a pathetic e-mail from them.
[22:27] <statik> oh wow, thats a terrible lag time
[22:27] <msknight> That's more than three days for 7digital to tell me, "sorry, not our fault, contant U1"
[22:27] <statik> yeah you don't need finger pointing you need an mp3
[22:28] <msknight> :-) Yup!
[22:28] <msknight> What details do you need ... or can you work it out already?
[22:28] <statik> i'll pm you
[22:28] <msknight> I@m on the web interface.
[22:28] <msknight> Ah - I see it.
[22:34] <msknight> Wow. That's me on my way to being sorted out then.
[22:34] <msknight> Thanks statik.
[22:35] <statik> least i could do :)
[23:01] <mdl-unit> I have a problem with a song I bought on the Ubuntu One Music Store.  It's been listed as "Queued" for download since Friday night.
[23:07] <msknight> mdl-unit check your cloud to see if it is up there.
[23:08] <msknight> There are tracks that transfer to the cloud, but for some reason they hang up on coming down to the PC.
[23:08] <mdl-unit> It's not there
[23:09] <mdl-unit> It never even got to the cloud
[23:09] <mdl-unit> all of the other songs on the album made it
[23:09] <msknight> In that case, honk and ask for help.
[23:09] <mdl-unit> honk
[23:11] <beuno> hi mdl-unit
[23:11] <mdl-unit> Hullo
[23:12] <beuno> mdl-unit, we're working on resolving the issues
[23:13] <mdl-unit> Is there an ETA?
[23:14] <beuno> we hope to get the remaining ones un-stuck tomorrow
[23:14] <mdl-unit> And is it something that will just fix itself (i.e. the song will eventually make it to my Ubuntu One account)?
[23:14] <beuno> yes, it will fix itself
[23:15] <beuno> we track all these problems on the backend, and start looking into them when they pop up
[23:17] <mdl-unit> OK, thanks... I'll be back in a few days if it doesn't work out.
[23:18] <beuno> please do
[23:18] <beuno> sorry about that


[04:14] <cheriot> anyone around that can help me trouble shoot something?
[04:15] <facundobatista> cheriot, if I can...
[04:15] <cheriot> I can see the song I bought on the website, but the folders on all of my computers stay unsynched
[04:16] <cheriot> With the proper unsynchronized emblem in nautalis
[04:17] <facundobatista> cheriot, open a terminal, execute "u1sdtool --state", and tell me what it says
[04:17] <facundobatista> cheriot, this way we could see the stat of the ubuntu one syncdaemon
[04:17] <cheriot> Usage: u1sdtool [option]
[04:17] <cheriot> u1sdtool: error: no such option: --state
[04:18] <facundobatista> cheriot, sorry, --status
[04:19] <cheriot> ah, ok
[04:19] <cheriot> $ u1sdtool --status
[04:19] <cheriot> State: READY
[04:19] <cheriot>     connection: Not User With Network
[04:19] <cheriot>     description: ready to connect
[04:19] <cheriot>     is_connected: False
[04:19] <cheriot>     is_error: False
[04:19] <cheriot>     is_online: False
[04:19] <cheriot>     queues: WORKING_ON_BOTH
[04:19] <facundobatista> cheriot, the syncdaemon is ready to connect
[04:20] <facundobatista> (READY)
[04:20] <facundobatista> cheriot, it has network, but you still didn't tell it to connect
[04:20] <cheriot> is there a way I can force it to connect?
[04:20] <facundobatista> cheriot, that's why it says "not user"
[04:20] <facundobatista> cheriot, do u1sdtool -c
[04:20] <facundobatista> or --connect
[04:21] <cheriot> the status has changed to QUEUE_MANAGER
[04:22] <cheriot> I take it that's a good thing?
[04:22] <facundobatista> cheriot, there's a graphic tool to see the syncdaemon status... it's really in alpha state, but you may find it worthwhile
[04:22] <facundobatista> cheriot, yes, QUEUE_MANAGER manages the metadata and the content queue
[04:22] <facundobatista> *queues
[04:22] <cheriot> thanks for the help
[04:23] <facundobatista> cheriot, if you want to try the graphic tool, install it from the PPA
[04:23] <cheriot> I'll have to check it out
[04:23] <facundobatista> cheriot, sudo apt-add-repository ppa:chicharreros/ppa
[04:23] <facundobatista> cheriot, sudo apt-get update
[04:23] <facundobatista> cheriot, sudo apt-get install magicicada
[06:19] <Coudy> hi, any news about sync on 9.10 ?
[09:18]  * rye is in University network with transparent proxy and it appears that syncdaemon works great.
[09:20] <Coudy> rye,  hi, any news about sync on 9.10 ?
[11:13] <Coudy> duanedesign, Hi, any news about sync on 9.10 ?
[11:27] <psy> hi, does the bookmark sync actually work?
[11:28] <psy> I've got ubuntu one hooked up to 3 machines with boolmarks enabled, and they all have the plugin installed on firefox
[11:28] <psy> but my bookmarks are not being updated
[11:42] <duanedesign> hello Coudy
[11:42] <duanedesign> hello psy
[11:42] <Coudy> duanedesign, hi, any news ?
[11:43] <psy> hi duanedesign
[11:43] <psy> can you confirm for me how bookmarks are supposed to work?
[11:43] <psy> because from what I can see so far, they don't work the way I would expect
[11:44] <duanedesign> Coudy: considering there wasnt much consensus from those who know the software best, I would be inclined to say either upgrade to Lucid or if you really like Karmic install the Beta/PPA
[11:44] <psy> Lucid rocks, do the upgrade ;)
[11:44] <duanedesign> psy: as far as I know the Bookmark and Contact Sync is being turned on gradually
[11:44] <psy> duanedesign: ok, so it's a new feature?
[11:45] <duanedesign> psy: so they are turning it on 5,000 people at a time, as i understand it. When they turned it on full blast it didnt go so well
[11:45] <psy> I just started using ubuntu one so I don't have a clue where things are at
[11:45] <duanedesign> psy: they turned it off when the Lucid upgrade so many users that it started to degrade U1 performance
[11:45] <Coudy> duanedesign, :-(, I'm afraid to upgrade. Every time when I upgrade, something is broken, 8.10>9.04 agp drivers, 9.04>9.10 autofs problems, but I'll do upgrade
[11:46] <duanedesign> Coudy: if you want to try the Beta/PPA first i have the command...
[11:46] <psy> Coudy: I know where you are coming from, but backup your system.
[11:46] <Coudy> duanedesign, bata/PPA of what ? of ubuntuone ? ,.. I'll try it
[11:47] <duanedesign> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntuone/beta && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[11:47] <duanedesign> Coudy: ^^
[11:47] <psy> Ubuntu need a simple system wide backup and recovery tool
[11:47] <duanedesign> that will put a newer client on Karmic. There is one change that throws people a little. The applet is replaced with the U1 Preferences Panel
[11:48] <duanedesign> Coudy: The Preferences Panel is usually accessed through the Me Menu. Since Karmic does not have that, to access Ubuntu One you go to System > Preferences > Ubuntu One
[11:49] <Coudy> duanedesign, Yes I know, at home I'm on Lucid,
[11:50] <duanedesign> Coudy: ok great
[11:50] <psy> I just read the note on the status page, Monday, June 7, 2010: migrating customers, blah, blah, blah...
[11:50] <psy> I think that was the day I joined up
[11:50] <Coudy> duanedesign, Lucid is LTS, so I hope, than U1 will work at least 3 years in Lucid
[11:50] <psy> was wondering why it was so damn slow
[11:51] <duanedesign> psy: yes it was sloooow. Better now though
[11:51] <psy> not a good impression for a first timer
[11:51] <psy> they should have put a notice on the site
[11:51] <duanedesign> psy: i heard Lucid brought 10's of thousands of new U1 users.
[11:52] <psy> the one you have to visit to join your computer
[11:52] <psy> I think ubuntu one is a brilliant idea for getting a real idea of just how many Ubuntu users there are in the world
[11:53] <psy> although, I guess it's only useful if you have lots of Ubuntu boxes in different locations
[11:54] <psy> does canonical make money out of it yet?
[11:56] <duanedesign> psy: i dont know. They pay for all the 2GB accounts so I imagine it might take awhile to break even and profit from it.
[11:57] <duanedesign> But i am no business person so i have no idea :P
[11:57] <psy> Well I just like the bookmark sync idea so far
[11:58] <psy> I don't think I need anywhere near 2GB of space
[12:02] <Coudy> duanedesign, ok, upgraded, but I can't change anything in ubuntuone client
[12:04] <duanedesign> Coudy: you mean you open Ubuntu One Preferences
[12:04] <Coudy> duanedesign, yes
[12:04] <duanedesign> Coudy: under Devices does you computer name show up, or does it say <Local Machine>
[12:05] <Coudy> duanedesign, nothing, only limit bandwidth and disconnect button
[12:06] <Coudy> duanedesign, do you want to view image ?
[12:07] <duanedesign> Coudy: can you take a screenshot?
[12:09] <Coudy> duanedesign, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7883291/Obrazovka-Predvo%C4%BEby%20Ubuntu%20One.png
[12:10] <duanedesign> Coudy: oh wow, ok
[12:11] <Coudy> duanedesign, should I restart my desktop after upgrade ?
[12:11] <duanedesign> Coudy: can you open Applications > Accesories > Password and Encryption
[12:11] <Coudy> duanedesign, and ... ?
[12:12] <duanedesign> Click the arrow next to password
[12:12] <duanedesign> look  for Ubuntu One Token
[12:13] <Coudy> duanedesign, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7883291/UbuntuOnetoken.png
[12:16] <duanedesign> Coudy: and at http://one.ubuntu.com/account/machines  do you see your computer
[12:16] <Coudy> duanedesign, I've deleted token, and registered again, but still I can't see nothing in devices, only bandwidth and disconnect
[12:16] <duanedesign> ok
[12:17] <Coudy> duanedesign, yes 2x one from yesterday, and one from today
[12:17] <duanedesign> thats ok i have a few :)
[12:17] <duanedesign> Coudy: i have never seen that. I am trying to think what would cause that.
[12:18] <duanedesign> Coudy: could you please look at ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log
[12:18] <duanedesign> and see if anything is in that file
[12:18] <Coudy> duanedesign, thank you for your help, but maybe I must upgrade. If I will have problems after upgrade, I'll contact you
[12:20] <duanedesign> Coudy: can you try one thing. Run the command : gnome-keyring-daemon
[12:20] <Coudy> duanedesign, exsptions.log is empty
[12:20] <duanedesign>  gnome-keyring-daemon; ubuntuone-preferences
[12:20] <duanedesign> and see if the device list is still empty.
[12:21] <Coudy> no devices, but exception in terminal:
[12:21] <Coudy> GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET=/tmp/keyring-XZHW4h/socket
[12:21] <Coudy> SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/keyring-XZHW4h/socket.ssh
[12:21] <Coudy> GNOME_KEYRING_PID=8230
[12:21] <Coudy> DBusException(dbus.String(u'Traceback (most recent call last):\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ubuntuone/syncdaemon/dbus_interface.py", line 1068, in set_throttling_limits\n    aq.writeLimit = upload\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ubuntuone/storageprotocol/client.py", line 1451, in _set_write_limit\n    raise ValueError(\'Write limit must be greater than 0.\')\nValueError: Write limit must be greater than 0.\n'),)
[12:23] <duanedesign> Coudy: ok. Could you open ~/.config/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[12:23] <duanedesign> Coudy: and under Bandwidth throttling
[12:24] <duanedesign> you want a read_limit = something greater than 0
[12:24] <duanedesign> read and write
[12:24] <Coudy> read_limit = 65536
[12:24] <Coudy> write_limit = 0
[12:24] <Coudy> on = False
[12:24] <duanedesign> write_limit = 2097152
[12:24] <duanedesign> try that^^
[12:25] <duanedesign> after you save it close the preferences (if still open) and run the command: u1sdtool -q
[12:25] <duanedesign> then open the Ubuntu One Preferences and see if any better
[12:26] <Coudy> but still limits are FALSE
[12:26] <Coudy> no change...
[12:26] <Coudy> ok, I'm going to upgrade
[12:26] <duanedesign> Coudy: even if they are off they need to be something other than 0
[14:33] <directhex> is anything stuck at the server end of u1ms? i just bought a track which isn't arriving on my u1 storage (i.e. it's not something i can sort at my end)
[14:40] <rye> directhex, hi, redirecting the question to the person in charge...
[14:45] <rye> directhex, could you please download and run this script in terminal and provide us with the Id value? http://people.canonical.com/~roman.yepishev/ubuntuone-scripts/ubuntuone-account-info
[14:46] <directhex> Id: 96745
[14:55] <rye> directhex, is "If I Could Fly by Joe Satriani on Is There Love In Space?" the missing song?
[14:55] <directhex> aye
[14:57] <rye> directhex, is the song listed as Queued on the music store page in rhythmbox?
[14:57] <directhex> yeah, for about 45 minutes now
[15:08] <rye> directhex, ok, the issue is confirmed, alecu is now looking into that. alecu should a bug report be filed?
[15:08] <alecu> rye, it seems to be a server problem
[16:13] <duanedesign> rye: have you ever seen this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7883291/Obrazovka-Predvo%C4%BEby%20Ubuntu%20One.png
[16:15] <rye> duanedesign, well, in karmic that was the limit setting... what exactly?
[16:16] <duanedesign> rye: ahhh, ok :P I am getting rusty on my Karmic knowledge
[16:17] <duanedesign> rye: i didnt even notice. It was supposed to be the preferences window after an upgrade. Probablly needs to restart U1
[16:17] <duanedesign> thank you
[16:20] <rye> duanedesign, or stale ppa entry
[16:22] <duanedesign> rye: ohh, you know what, that is definetly a possibility. He did have the PPA
[17:15] <brotro> I can't get to purchased music from Ubuntu One Music Store
[17:16] <brotro> I purchased the songs, got a receipt, and now the "my downloads" section of rhythmbox is just showing them all as queued.  Cannot access them through the website either.
[17:17] <brotro> honk
[17:19] <brotro> any ideas?
[17:20] <alecu> brotro, we are currently experiencing some issues with the server process that fetches songs from the music provider into your u1 storage.
[17:20] <alecu> brotro, we are working on solving them right now.
[17:20] <alecu> brotro, sorry for the delay.
[17:20] <brotro> so, this will be fixed in the near future and they will download themselves?
[17:20] <alecu> brotro, right.
[17:20] <brotro> Thanks
[17:27] <mattgriffin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Status page has been updated. some customers are still reporting a 'queued' state for purchased music. we're investigating the cause.
[17:31] <frogdog> anyone know when contact and bookmark sync will work?
[18:15] <Jon__> I need help, bad. Does anyone have a couple minutes?
[18:16] <Jon__> honk
[18:16] <alecu> Jon__, what's the problem?
[18:17] <Jon__> Does UbuntuOne store the files it deletes anywhere?
[18:17] <Jon__> I'm using UbuntuOne between two pcs, one at school and one at home
[18:18] <Jon__> I turned on the one at school for the first time in a while, and today at home, my file is gone.
[18:18] <Jon__> the file is my 112 page thesis
[18:18] <Jon__> I did not delete it from the pc at school or here, that's for sure.
[18:18] <Jon__> there is no .u1conflict file
[18:18] <Jon__> and it's no longer on the server
[18:24] <Jon__> ...
[18:28] <Jon__> honk
[18:31] <alecu> facundobatista, jdobrien: is there a way to help ^^^ ?
[18:31] <Jon__> alecu, did I scare you off?
[18:31] <alecu> Jon__, sorry, no :-)
[18:31] <Jon__> oh, sorry.
[18:32] <Jon__> I was trying to be patient, but I'm sure you understand that 15mins feels like a long time right now ; )
[18:32] <alecu> Jon__, I'm sure there's a way, I'm calling the people who understand this better.
[18:33] <Jon__> excellent. thank you.
[18:33] <jdobrien> Jon__, what is you email in Ubuntu One
[18:33] <Jon__> if it makes a difference, I'd just updated the pc at school to 10.04. my home pc is still 9.10
[18:33] <Jon__> jdobrien, can I PM you?
[18:34] <jml> how do you edit a document with desktopcouch?
[18:34] <jml> I'm guessing fetch it by id w/ get_record and then call put_record
[18:34] <jdobrien> Jon__, yes
[18:42] <Jon__> alecu, jdobrien, I've got it. thank you very much. you have no idea
[18:46] <jdobrien> Jon__, sorry for the trouble.
[18:47] <Jon__> now? not a problem. ;) workflow time change though. Going to work in a separate directory and just copy into/out of the Ubuntu One directory at the start/end of each day I think...
[18:47] <alecu> directhex, did your song download?
[18:59] <CardinalFang> kenvandine, are we talking about the circ-dep in 2 minutes?
[19:00] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, hey... i hadn't seen the mail until just now
[19:00] <kenvandine> i can though
[19:00] <CardinalFang> statik appears to be away.  thisfred, Chipaca?
[19:00] <Chipaca> hi
[19:00] <thisfred> ohai
[19:01] <dobey> circ dep? fun!
[19:02] <Chipaca> the problem with circular dependencies is that you get circular dependencies
[19:03] <thisfred> depends
[19:04] <dobey> thisfred: maybe BP could use some of those right now...
[19:04] <kklimonda> am I insane or is desktop couch has its own log handlers for g_debug?
[19:04] <kklimonda> or has*
[19:04] <thisfred> dobey to lift themselves up by the bootstraps?
[19:05] <dobey> thisfred: to soak up their incontinence?
[19:05] <thisfred> oh that kind of depend
[19:06] <dobey> kklimonda: i guess you're insane? what's the problem? :)
[19:07] <kklimonda> dobey: well, the moment I create a DesktopCouch.Session () object my debug function is redirected to /dev/null ;)
[19:07] <dobey> Chipaca: You know… for kids!
[19:07] <jml> I feel like I need a good javascript reference, a good python-couchdb reference, a good couchdb reference and a good desktopcouch reference in order to use desktopcouch
[19:08] <kklimonda> dobey: hmm.. g_log_set_handler:235 has g_log_set_handler (NULL, G_LOG_LEVEL_DEBUG, debug_message, NULL);
[19:09] <dobey> kklimonda: not sure what that is. your code?
[19:09] <kklimonda> dobey: and debug_message checks for COUCHDB_ENV_DEBUG_MESSAGES variable..
[19:09] <kklimonda> dobey: no, that's the part of the couchdb-glib code I've grepped fro the g_log_set_handler :)
[19:09] <dobey> oh
[19:09] <dobey> rodrigo_: ^
[19:10] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, yes, it has its own log handler, iirc
[19:10] <dobey> jml: please complain at aquarius then :)
[19:11] <rodrigo_> kklimonda,  DesktopCouch.Session ? are you using the introspection? from which language?
[19:11] <kklimonda> rodrigo_: well, it's Vala
[19:12] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, cool
[19:12] <dobey> kklimonda: I blame Claudia Black then :)
[19:13] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, in couchdb-session.c -> g_log_set_handler (NULL, G_LOG_LEVEL_DEBUG, debug_message, NULL);
[19:14] <kklimonda> rodrigo_: but it's #ifdefed so it shouldn't happen in the production code.. /me is confused
[19:14] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, hmm, I thought you had compiled it with debugging on
[19:14] <kklimonda> or maybe DEBUG_MESSAGES are set anyway?
[19:14] <rodrigo_> hmm, let me check
[19:15] <rodrigo_> it's disabled by default
[19:15] <rodrigo_> are you using the packages?
[19:15] <kklimonda> yes
[19:15] <rodrigo_> maybe we enable them in the packages, let me check
[19:16] <rodrigo_> no, we don't
[19:16] <kklimonda> ok, time for debugging then :)
[19:21] <kklimonda> hmm, it's being set..
[19:22] <kklimonda> the log handler from couchdb-glib..
[19:25] <kklimonda> rodrigo_: a lucid packages has DEBUG_MESSAGES set to 1 as far as I can see
[19:27] <kklimonda> (only when you can ./configure with --disable-debug-messages it's not set and debian package doesn't have it)
[19:35] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, oh, right
[19:36] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, we fixed that after lucid, so yeah, it's enabled by default in lucid
[19:37]  * kklimonda thinks it's a nice candidate for an SRU so he's going to prepare a patch later..
[20:21] <CardinalFang> statik, kenvandine, thisfred, aquarius:  I remember now the reason that python-desktopcouch-record depends on desktopcouch.  We didn't want to make the user specify the host they're connecting to.  When they specify nothing, they connect to their own couchdb, which involves a lot of searching for what that means and maybe even making it.
[20:22] <CardinalFang> statik, kenvandine, thisfred, aquarius:  I can try to make that a special case, sort of, and import lazily.  That makes me nervous, though.
[20:22] <thisfred> CardinalFang: I don't have enough context to make sense of that.
[20:23] <CardinalFang> thisfred,   db = CouchDatabase()  # what happens?
[20:23] <CardinalFang> thisfred,   db = CouchDatabase("foo")  # what happens?
[20:23] <thisfred> ah right
[20:23] <CardinalFang> (The latter one.)
[20:24] <thisfred> I think the library code should just always get a host. In python-desktopcouch we can then create a superclass that looks up the host or something
[20:25] <CardinalFang> So, for all that magic that goes on, I can act like that is not the normal case, and try to import the code necessary to enmagickify it, so that the just-records-only solution works.
[20:25] <thisfred> eh
[20:26] <thisfred> I would prefer no magic in records, imported or not
[20:26] <CardinalFang> thisfred, What is "library" here?  CouchDatabase(db_name) ?
[20:26] <thisfred> put the magic in the app
[20:26] <thisfred> the library is desktopcouch-records
[20:26] <thisfred> the app is desktopcouch
[20:26] <CardinalFang> thisfred, What is "library" here?  desktopcouch.records.CouchDatabase(db_name) ?
[20:27] <thisfred> CardinalFang: that should get a host
[20:27] <thisfred> then have desktopcouch.dedidedlynotrecords.CouchDatabaseSubclass(db_name) where the lookup magic happens
[20:28] <thisfred> probably just desktopcouch.CouchDatabase
[20:28] <thisfred> that subclasses desktopcouch.records.CouchDatabase
[20:29] <thisfred> desktopcouch.records should ideally not have any knowledge of the desktop
[20:30] <thisfred> I think that could be a relatively small refactoring
[20:31] <CardinalFang> thisfred, I left out ".server" earlier, fwiw.  desktopcouch.records.server.CouchDatabase  .
[20:31] <thisfred> right
[20:31] <CardinalFang> That's what people use, that name.
[20:31] <thisfred> yeah so we break API
[20:31] <thisfred> or we keep the circular dependency
[20:32] <thisfred> I vote we break API
[20:32] <CardinalFang> Third choice is unify the packages.
[20:32] <thisfred> yeah, but the whole point was to not do that
[20:32] <CardinalFang> I thought the point of today was to break the circle.
[20:33] <thisfred> I mean we can, but desktopcouch.records was never meant to include anything desktop specific
[20:33] <thisfred> CardinalFang: probably the easiest now is indeed to unify
[20:34] <thisfred> and then factor out the library code
[20:34] <thisfred> into a new package
[20:34] <thisfred> python-libdesktopcouch
[20:34] <thisfred> or something
[20:34] <thisfred> since it's not just records
[20:34] <CardinalFang> Fourth choice is to clobber the library desktopcouch.records.server.CouchDatabase with a app desktopcouch.records.server.CouchDatabase , depending on what is imported.  This makes Guido cry.
[20:35] <thisfred> that would solve our immediate problem now, and postpone solving the more philosophic problem
[20:35] <thisfred> CardinalFang: yeah, let's not do *that*
[20:35] <CardinalFang> :)
[20:36] <thisfred> CardinalFang: I would like a promise though: please everyone be *super*careful not to put anything into desktopcouch.records that will break on the server due to it needing the gnome keyring or anything else desktoppy
[20:37] <thisfred> until we can split out the library for real, that is a danger
[20:37] <thisfred> but not enough to break the API over
[20:42] <CardinalFang> thisfred, I promise not to move anything in to desktopcouch.records that would depend on the desktop.
[20:43] <thisfred> awesome, so do I, so let's wait until a last minute change from aquarius breaks it ;)
[20:43] <statik> so what was the conclusion here?
[20:43] <thisfred> statik: we stuff it all back into one package
[20:44] <thisfred> and then properly split out the library code soon
[20:44] <statik> i like that idea
[20:44] <thisfred> which should not be supermuch work
[20:44] <statik> because we aren't even using the packages on the server side
[20:44] <thisfred> I kanbanned it already
[20:44] <statik> and we can deal with API renames on the server side
[20:44] <thisfred> yep
[20:45] <CardinalFang> statik, Unify the packages for the moment.  We can't split without adding some conditional imports,  Make a new lower CouchDatabase class that does all the desktop run-couch, find-port magic, and add a warning to the library CouchDatabase class for when people use it and it relys on that magic.
[20:46] <statik> i for one welcome our new unified desktopcouch package
[21:14] <kklimonda> is there any plan to suggest developers using namespaces for their couchdb dbnames? the current way seems to lead straight to hell :)
[21:18] <CardinalFang> kklimonda, we want some ad-hoc-ery in design, but we want every record type to be publically defined, and those SHOULD suggest a database name.  Anarchy: bad.  Flexibility and public definition: good.
[21:23] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: well, the problem is what if two projects decide to use the same name? even if they don't we already have a not so good situation when some applications add their name as a prefix, some don't.. and that's only the beginning :). Can you write something more about using record types to suggest database name?
[21:26] <CardinalFang> kklimonda, the same name DB doesn't matter at all.  Record types in "rows" are what's important.  Don't touch records that aren't in your type.
[21:27] <CardinalFang> Collision is not a problem.  Fragmentation is.  So, record types should suggest a DB name.  We shouldn't have a registry of DB names, though.
[22:00] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: isn't it a problem that either couchdb or application has to check if the record has the right type? how expensive is this check? or maybe I just don't know how does couchdb work (well, I don't :) ) and it's not a problem at all?
[22:56] <jon_snow> hi
[22:57] <jon_snow> i have a question: i want remove a file uploaded on ubuntu One
[22:57] <jon_snow> i removed it from ubuntu One web page
[22:57] <jon_snow> but it is still accessible from google
[22:57] <jon_snow> sorry for my english
[22:58] <mkarnicki> jon_snow: you mean google has cached your public link??
[22:58] <jon_snow> mkarnicki: no, no. file is a PDF with my name/surname
[22:59] <jon_snow> when i search my name/sourname on google it appear the first result
[22:59] <jon_snow> but i've removed file from Ubuntu One
[23:03] <facundobatista> jon_snow, which is the url that google is showing you?
[23:04] <jon_snow> ubuntuone.com/p/5xV/
[23:04] <jon_snow> you can open it?
[23:04] <jon_snow> do*
[23:07] <facundobatista> yes I can
[23:07] <jon_snow> On Ubuntu One - My Storage there is not that file
[23:07] <jon_snow> because i've removed it
[23:08] <facundobatista> jon_snow, you removed it from the web interface, right?
[23:08] <jon_snow> yes
[23:08] <mkarnicki> jon_snow: you're sure it hasn't been reuploaded from your PC again?
[23:08] <mkarnicki> that looks like a bug..
[23:08] <jon_snow> i'm sure
[23:08] <jon_snow> i can give you a screenshot
[23:09] <mkarnicki> dang. then it's work for the devs..
[23:09] <facundobatista> jon_snow, it's not needed, thanks
[23:09] <mkarnicki> jon_snow: no, it's fine. I gotta go learn anyway.
[23:09] <jon_snow> "No files in this folder"
[23:09]  * mkarnicki had to go away
[23:10] <jon_snow> but i want to know if google will keep the file stored
[23:10] <kklimonda> it's up to google - you can send them an email asking to remove it
[23:12] <mkarnicki> jon_snow: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=164734
[23:12] <jon_snow> thanks
[23:14] <facundobatista> jon_snow, ubuntuone.com should not show the file any more, if I'm right
[23:14] <facundobatista> jon_snow, could you please file a bug for this?
[23:14] <jon_snow> yes, i do
[23:14]  * facundobatista needs to go now :|
[23:14] <facundobatista> sorry, bye!
[23:16] <jon_snow> bye!
[23:17] <jon_snow> "After these changes are made and Google has crawled the site again, the content should naturally drop out of the Google index"
[23:17] <jon_snow> it's right?
[23:22] <mkarnicki> jon_snow: strange message, but it should be fine.. check again in few days
[23:28] <jon_snow> bye
[23:28] <jon_snow> thanks :)
[23:28] <mkarnicki> np :)