[03:27] <kklimonda> hmm.. if I change part of file is the whole going to be reuploaded or only the part of it?
[08:56] <rye> hi duanedesign
[09:02] <rye> ok, time to write diagnostic script for .cache/ubuntuone/ file permissions
[09:22] <rye> bug 491950 - added to ubuntuone-client-diagnose
[12:20] <sebi`> hi, is it possible to make certain files public?
[12:21] <beuno> sebi`, it will soon. The feature is mostly done, we're figuring out some deployment details
[12:21] <beuno> stay tuned!
[12:21] <sebi`> oh, darn
[12:22] <sebi`> but nice to hear it's going to be implemented \o/
[12:23] <sebi`> also, it might sound silly, but will there ever be a non-linux client, as in, for windows XP, or Mac for example? (please don't hurt me for asking that :P)
[12:24] <beuno> sebi`, sure, there is an on-going effort to build a windows client
[12:24] <beuno> there will be a sprint during pycon
[12:24] <sebi`> neat-o
[12:24] <sebi`> :D
[12:25] <beuno> sebi`, we're anticipating all your needs
[12:25] <beuno> what else you got?  :)
[12:25] <sebi`> nothing so far :D
[12:25] <sebi`> but thank you for your time
[12:26] <beuno> you're welcome
[12:41] <rye> ok, I guess we'll need a script that parses the syncdaemon.log of current version to find what state syncdaemon is, since "About a month ago Ubuntu One just stopped working." requires syncdaemon.log to find possible reason.
[12:42] <beuno> rye, do it!
[12:43] <rye> beuno, thinking on how to do that atm...
[12:43] <rye> :)
[12:43] <beuno> rye, verterok is always a good person to talk to when you want to do funky things, he's an ex-gentoo user  ;)
[12:43] <rye> i just hate repeating "Please upload syncdaemon log", scan it, only to find that it is in STANDOFF_WAITING_FOR_THE_END_OF_THE_WORLD
[12:47]  * verterok looks
[12:48] <rye> verterok, erm, no, it is just an ongoing conversation, nothing to look on so far
[12:50] <verterok> rye: there are other ways to know the state of syncdaemon :)
[12:50] <verterok> rye: e.g: dbus-send --session --print-reply --dest=com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon --type=method_call /status com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Status.current_status
[12:50] <verterok> rye: that should work in all ubuntu installs :)
[12:54] <rye> verterok, oh, thanks! That is nice thing, I want to be able to parse log files so that there is clear sequence of events (file spotted, file uploaded, uuid is that one), state changed @ 1 AM, error occured, etc. :)
[12:54] <rye> oh
[12:54] <rye> i know i know i know
[12:55] <rye> syncdaemon needs some method to enable debugging right _now_.
[12:55] <verterok> rye: parsing the config is a good idea
[12:55] <verterok> rye: a method? at runtime?
[12:55] <rye> verterok, yup
[12:56] <rye> verterok, i.e. i have a bug. syncdaemon does not want to upload files. we instruct the user to enable debug, add more files, then package this into a nice fine tarball and send to us, if this does not help, then restart syncdaemon. it may not be thaaat useful, though.
[13:00] <verterok> rye: could you file a bug about this requirement? :)
[13:11] <rye> verterok, which exactly? runtime debug or log parser? :)
[13:11] <verterok> rye: runtime debug :)
[13:12] <verterok> rye: regarding the log parser, maybe facundobatista alsready have some scripts :)
[13:13] <rye> verterok, btw, end users might also want to see what's happening behind the scenes w/o enormous numbers of uuids that don't give much info about filename unless one scans through the logs with a magnifier (or grep) ...
[13:14] <facundobatista> rye, what you said is logical: people want to see what's going on with the client
[13:14] <facundobatista> rye, how many files already uploaded/downloaded, how many are still in the queue
[13:14] <facundobatista> rye, at which speed everything is working, etc
[13:14] <rye> facundobatista, frankly speaking I'd like to know what's actually happening too :)
[13:15] <rye> and what Blocked(filename) means... it all is in the sources... thought
[13:15] <rye> though
[13:15] <facundobatista> rye, however, referring the user to the logs it's a poor solution: we should provide a GUI for that
[13:15] <rye> facundobatista, yep, to show the current, aaand a log reader to show the past :)
[13:17] <facundobatista> rye, mmm
[13:17] <rye> btw, is anybody here running syncdaemon enabled on session login?
[13:17] <facundobatista> rye, let's take for example a torrent client... how many times did you want to see the past?
[13:17] <rye> it looks like syncdaemon eats my harddrive when it starts leading to an increased waiting time...
[13:18] <facundobatista> rye, in any case... I don't have any scripts for the logs
[13:18] <rye> facundobatista, ok, but if the torrent client removed the entries for already downloaded file then there should have been some kind of logs
[13:18] <rye> erm
[13:19] <facundobatista> rye, or it shouldn't remove the entries for already downloaded files ;)
[13:19] <rye> torrents not apply here - they stay seeding forever so the only thing that is important is the speed charts, to show that to ISP and convince them that they really have a shaper in place :)
[13:19] <rye> but files are uploading and we forget about them
[13:19] <rye> facundobatista, in any way, runtime debug switch seems to be easier to implement
[13:20] <facundobatista> rye, yeap
[13:20] <beuno> facundobatista, rye, I hear quickly is great for building quick UIs
[13:20] <facundobatista> rye, anyway... for GUI enhancements you should talk with Chipaca or beuno
[13:20] <facundobatista> rye, I just say that logs shouldn't be the way to see what's going on for final users
[13:23] <rye> facundobatista, beuno, verterok, ok so back to syncdaemon running LR on login - have you experienced any elevated hdd activity and gdm-login-to-usable-session time?
[13:23] <verterok> rye: it's a known issue that LR takes a lot of time in some cases
[13:23] <beuno> rye, I showed ubuntu devs my bootchart graph, and they all cursed at u1
[13:24] <rye> grrr
[13:24] <rye> not good
[13:24] <rye> my session login takes up to 1 minute
[13:24] <rye> w/ syncdaemon eating ( "D" ) my drive.
[13:25] <beuno> oh, my boot time is about 11 seconds from power on to desktop  :)
[13:25] <verterok> beuno, rye: that's the applet/nautilus starting syncdaemon earlier than they should
[13:26] <rye> verterok, ok, what about trunk?
[13:26] <verterok> rye: you can't start syncdaemon on login using trunk :)
[13:26] <verterok> rye: there is no applet
[13:26] <rye> verterok, I can :)
[13:26] <rye> verterok, so what?
[13:26] <verterok> rye: hehe, yes you can.
[13:26] <rye> verterok, applet is no longer the launcher :)
[13:27] <verterok> rye: who is launching it now?
[13:27] <beuno> verterok, rye, https://devpad.canonical.com/~beuno/beuno-laptop-lucid-20100212-2.png
[13:27] <rye> verterok, u1sdtool can launch it but even when syncdaemon itself is launched it starts doing LR which greatly impacts the ability to do something before it calms down
[13:28] <verterok> rye: yes
[13:28]  * rye becomes sad because he has 75 seconds of bootcharting
[13:28] <verterok> rye: ATM, there is no way to avoid the LR at startup
[13:29] <rye> verterok, but that can be read in chunks, much like js calls are chained so that browser does not get too sad about executing all that 12 billion lines at once
[13:30] <rye> verterok, freeing the hd for some time to perform the task...
[13:32] <verterok> rye: it's being done in chunks :/
[13:33] <verterok> rye: one of the options is to change the filesystem manager layer to make it thread safe, so we can do the LR in a different thread
[13:34] <rye> verterok, i trapped on bug 409972 - could that improve anything? By reading one file instead of tons of small open()s and read()s ?
[13:34] <verterok> rye: no, that's a different issue
[13:34] <rye> verterok, LR is local rescan, not metadata loading....
[13:35] <rye> grrr
[13:35] <rye> i got it
[13:35] <verterok> rye: on startup, syncdaemon builds a data structure that holds all the sync states/transitions
[13:35] <rye> local rescan is traversal of all the files and folder to say "hi, file!"
[13:35] <verterok> rye: that bug is to pickle that data structure on the first startup, to speedup the next one
[13:35] <verterok> rye: actually local rescan traverse all files *and* loads metadata
[13:36] <verterok> rye: the issue with the startup isn't local rescan actually, it's the metadata loading of filesyetem manager
[13:36] <verterok> rye: FilesystemManager builds an index on startup, and needs to read all the metadata to do it :(
[13:37] <rye> verterok, With all the buzz around improving startup time we forget that there's still time-to-usable-desktop and that is heavily impacted by running anything disk-intensive right at startup...
[13:39] <verterok> rye: that's the only block-until-finish bit on syncdaemon startup
[13:39] <rye> verterok, one seems to be enough :)
[13:40] <verterok> rye: indeed
[13:40] <verterok> rye: and we are awere of this problem
[13:40] <verterok> rye: I did a little experiment, and replaced the current metadata storage with sqlite
[13:40] <verterok> rye: the result wasn't a big improvement :(
[13:44] <rye> beuno, was that lucid install mentioned in bootchart a clean one or upgrade from Karmic ?
[13:45] <beuno> rye, upgrade from karmic to lucid
[13:45] <beuno> after a tweak
[13:45] <facundobatista> rye, #476711 could improve LR timings
[13:45] <beuno> I got it 10 seconds down
[13:45] <beuno> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39214382/beuno-laptop-lucid-20100213-2.png
[13:45] <rye> beuno, any problems w/ ureadahead not generating pack files?
[13:45] <beuno> rye, not atm, no
[13:45] <beuno> also, I have an SSD HD
[13:46] <rye> facundobatista, ah, stat() on every file found?
[13:47] <rye> beuno, still, my upgrade went not that smooth, i don't have plymouth displaying nice things, ureadahead is broken and tmp is not cleaned on start (IT SHOULD BE TMPFS!)
[13:47] <facundobatista> rye, yeap
[13:48] <beuno> rye, wierd. It was flawless for me
[13:49] <rye> beuno, thanks for SSD hint, is your /tmp in memory or on disk?
[13:50] <beuno> rye, disk
[13:55] <aquarius> hey mattgriffin
[13:57] <beuno> rodrigo_, ping
[13:58] <beuno> I'm working on the notes branch
[13:58] <beuno> and I have a questionfor you when you get back
[14:06] <beuno> rodrigo_, ok, so notes are saving now. Just need to make the flow nice and fix quirks: lp:~beuno/ubuntuone-servers/dont-autosave
[14:07] <beuno> I'm interested in something you said about revisions and not sending them creating problems
[14:16] <beuno> aquarius, maybe you can shed some light on it  ^
[14:33] <rodrigo_> beuno, cool!
[14:34] <rodrigo_> beuno, the problem is that when saving notes yto couchdb, you need to specify the _rev you are updating
[14:35] <rodrigo_> beuno, and the autosave code didn't take them into account
[14:35] <rodrigo_> beuno, so if there is no autosave, it should be ok, just sending the POST when the user pressed 'Save' should do it correctly
[14:38] <beuno> rodrigo_, could you enlighten me on why the manual save won't cause this?
[14:39] <rodrigo_> beuno, because the autosave code doesn't know the ID of the document AFAIR
[14:39] <rodrigo_> the _rev, sorry
[14:40] <beuno> rodrigo_, so this is what I did to make it work: https://pastebin.canonical.com/27865/
[14:41] <rodrigo_> beuno, not sure if you need the format=json part? but if it works, it looks good to me :-)
[14:41] <rodrigo_> beuno, have you submitted the branch for merging?
[14:41] <beuno> rodrigo_, not yet, it needs a lot of clean up
[14:41] <beuno> rodrigo_, the json bit
[14:41] <beuno> is because otherwise the response is an HTML
[14:41] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[14:41] <beuno> and everything goes BOOM
[14:42] <beuno> I need to let you go into edit mode, make the buttons pretty, and maybe a spinner while it saves  :)
[14:42] <beuno> how urgent is this?
[14:42] <beuno> I can split it into 2 branches
[14:42] <rodrigo_> if you can, that would be great
[14:43] <beuno> will do
[14:43] <rodrigo_> it's a bit urgent, because the web UI is broken
[14:43] <rodrigo_> but if you want to have all in 1 branch, that's ok with me
[14:43] <beuno> rodrigo_, I'll see how time consuming it is
[14:43] <beuno> start with the basics
[14:43] <beuno> and cut off when I get to a reasonable amount of time spent  :)
[14:43] <rodrigo_> ok :)
[14:43] <rodrigo_> thanks!
[14:44] <beuno> de nada!
[14:44] <beuno> good thing its a holiday in the US today
[14:44] <beuno> gave me an extra day before going knee-deep into phone sync
[14:44] <rodrigo_> hehe
[14:53] <beuno> rodrigo_, is this the traceback we're trying to fix with this?  https://pastebin.canonical.com/27866/
[14:54] <rodrigo_> beuno, no, but if you get that, I guess we should fix it
[14:54] <beuno> rodrigo_, I get that with the new implementation  :)
[14:54] <rodrigo_> beuno, I can fix it if you want, it needs to 'if "Tomboy" in annotations
[14:55] <rodrigo_> beuno, right, I changed the code to use dc's get_application_annotations, which doesn't have the has_key
[14:55] <beuno> rodrigo_, if you can throw a quick patch at me, it would be great
[14:55] <rodrigo_> beuno, but since that part wasn't working, I didn't change it it seems
[14:55] <beuno> or change in your branch and I'll merge
[14:55] <rodrigo_> beuno, ok, let me see
[14:58] <dobey> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ubuntuone&search_type=&aq=f
[14:58] <rodrigo_> beuno, ok, patched (but not tested) in my branch, so merge it
[14:58] <dobey> interesting
[14:58] <beuno> rodrigo_, merging, will loet you know in a sec
[14:59] <rodrigo_> beuno, ok
[15:00] <beuno> rodrigo_, new error!  https://pastebin.canonical.com/27868/
[15:01] <rodrigo_> hmm
[15:02] <beuno> rodrigo_, that's missing stuff
[15:02] <beuno> one sec
[15:03] <rodrigo_> ah
[15:03] <beuno> rodrigo_, https://pastebin.canonical.com/27869/
[15:05] <rodrigo_> hmm, I'm lost, that should work :-(
[15:06] <rodrigo_> beuno, see line 426, that works, so not sure what the difference is??
[15:07] <beuno> hrm
[15:09] <beuno> rodrigo_, that does: if existing_doc is not None and "_rev" in existing_doc._data:
[15:10] <beuno> I wonder if that check makes the diff?
[15:11] <rodrigo_> that just adds the _rev field if it's an update
[15:11] <rodrigo_> but the error says a DC.Record is not serializable
[15:11] <beuno> right
[15:11] <beuno> I get that error when editing and saving
[15:11] <rodrigo_> aquarius or thisfred should know better what the error means, since it's in DC code
[15:11] <beuno> so it probably should add the rev as well, no?
[15:12] <beuno> (even if its unrelated)
[15:12] <rodrigo_> but the 2 calls to .put_record use a python list
[15:12] <rodrigo_> beuno, if it's a new document, no, you can't make up a revision
[15:12] <rodrigo_> couchdb will assign it automatically
[15:12] <beuno> aha
[15:12] <beuno> ok, good to know
[15:17] <rodrigo_> so, to put_record you pass a Record(list values) and internally DC converts that to a Record, and so it shouldn't be serializing it if it can't be serialized
[15:17] <rodrigo_> not sure what's going on, sorry :-(
[15:17] <rodrigo_> the 2 calls to put_record seem to use the same format
[15:17] <beuno> I can't figure it out either  :/
[15:18] <rodrigo_> aquarius, ^^
[15:18]  * aquarius reads the backscroll
[15:18] <beuno> aquarius, the meat of it is: https://pastebin.canonical.com/27869/
[15:18] <aquarius> wtf?
[15:18] <beuno> on saving an edited note
[15:18] <aquarius> how have you created a nonserialisable dictionary? :)
[15:19] <rodrigo_> aquarius, https://pastebin.canonical.com/27869/
[15:19] <beuno> aquarius, I'm special that way  :)
[15:19] <rodrigo_> aquarius, see lib/u1/web/notes/views.py#161
[15:19] <aquarius> beuno, can you pastebin the value of doc just before line 161 in web/notes/views.py?
[15:20] <beuno> sure
[15:20] <rye_> beuno, you stuffed mergeable list that you've received originally into the record?
[15:21] <beuno> aquarius, where would print statements be outputted to?
[15:22] <beuno> rye_, I haven't changed anything in python
[15:22] <aquarius> beuno, no idea. I always do raise Exception(str(doc)) :-)
[15:22] <rye_> beuno, aquarius - the same at client side: http://paste.ubuntu.com/376910/
[15:22] <rye_> so it IS possible, i have filed a bug, searching...
[15:23] <aquarius> rye_, hang on, what's that paste?
[15:23] <aquarius> rye_, ah, that replicates the problem. cheers.
[15:23] <beuno> aquarius, nice trick: https://pastebin.canonical.com/27871/
[15:24] <rye_> aquarius, bug 510223, though you are already using the server code...
[15:24] <aquarius> weird
[15:24] <aquarius> thisfred?
[15:24] <aquarius> CardinalFang?
[15:24] <aquarius> no thisfred
[15:24] <aquarius> CardinalFang, ping?
[15:24] <aquarius> I don't know much about update_fields
[15:25] <rodrigo_> aquarius, hmm, so the problem is the doc["application_annotations"] = record.application_annotations?
[15:25] <rodrigo_> aquarius, I guess that needs to be converted to a list?
[15:25] <rye_> thisfred has told me to do... wait, searching...
[15:26] <aquarius> something odd about that. It might not be possible to ship a_a around that way
[15:26] <CardinalFang> aquarius, hi.  USians have holiday today.  I've seen that bug, and I don't understand it yet.  I want to compare the code in py couchdb mod.
[15:26] <rye_> old_record.application_annotations["Tomboy"] = application_annotations
[15:26] <rye_> record_id = CouchDbNote.notes_db.put_record(old_record)
[15:27] <rye_> so no update_fields but my application_annotations is just a regular python dict
[15:27] <aquarius> CardinalFang, oh, sorry, pal, didn't realise it was a holiday!
[15:29]  * beuno fixes js while the experts figure this out
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:11:54 <thisfred>      so it needs to be a dictionary :(
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:12:02 <thisfred>      you can do this:
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:12:05 <rtgz>  sorry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/359656/
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:12:20 <thisfred>      db.update_fields(record_id, {
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:12:20 <thisfred>                   "application_annotations": application_annotations._data })
[15:30] <rye_> Jan 20 20:12:40 <thisfred>      but boy that method stinks
[15:30] <beuno> hrm
[15:31] <rodrigo_> I guess it's better then to do doc["applications_annotations"] = record.application_annotations._data ?
[15:31] <rodrigo_> and then just the put_record(Record(data=doc)) ?
[15:32] <aquarius> db.update_fields(record_id, { "application_annotations": application_annotations._data }) should work
[15:32] <aquarius> having just tested it
[15:32] <rodrigo_> aquarius, but we'll have to list all the fields
[15:32] <aquarius> mark it with a big UGH THIS IS A WORKAROUND nastiness :)
[15:33] <rodrigo_> and wouldn't doc["applications_annotations"] = record.application_annotations._data work also?
[15:33]  * beuno is prepared to merge
[15:33] <rodrigo_> go beuno go! :D
[15:35] <beuno> merging!
[15:35] <beuno> man
[15:35] <beuno> working on U1 is *so* much more fun than launchpad...
[15:35] <beuno> you can actually get something done in an hour!
[15:35] <beuno> rodrigo_, nothing to merge!
[15:36] <rodrigo_> beuno, ah, you meant merging from my branch?
[15:36] <rodrigo_> let me change that then
[15:36] <beuno> rodrigo_, anywhere!
[15:36] <beuno> as long as it has the fix  :)
[15:37] <rye_> is it possible for syncdaemon to be running as root?
[15:38] <rodrigo_> beuno, ok, merge now
[15:38] <rye_> i see the config entry im_ok_with_being_root_pretty_please_let_me_be_root.default = False and i think whether it does anything...
[15:39] <beuno> rodrigo_, works
[15:39] <beuno> !
[15:39] <rodrigo_> beuno, cool!
[15:39] <beuno> thank you rodrigo_, aquarius, rye_
[15:39] <beuno> on with it
[15:40] <rodrigo_> beuno, let me know when you propose the branch, and I'll review it
[15:42] <beuno> rodrigo_, will do, I need to fix a few things on the javascript side first so people don't hav to use firebug to edit notes  :)
[15:42] <rye> re "UGH THIS IS A WORKAROUND". I remember having seen "This should not be done this way, it needs to be rewritten ASAP!" in a file that had this since 2004. Nobody knew what was actually wrong there so it was left as is :)
[15:42] <rodrigo_> rye, yeah, comments you never revisit don't work :-)
[15:43] <beuno> ok, I'm off to pay the rent. I'll be back in 30-40'
[15:43] <aquarius> rye, if you put "FIXME" then pylint bitches at you about it, which is why I do it :)
[15:44] <kjoller> Hi all. I posted quite a lot of messages on a bug this weekend. I would like some feedback/advice on it.
[15:44] <kjoller> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/497143)
[15:45] <kjoller> It is basically a minor correction to a solution by aquarius
[15:45] <beuno-lunch> rodrigo_, I will finish this today, I need to be free tomorrow for phone sync  ;)
[15:51] <rodrigo_> beuno-lunch, ok, if you finish the js, I can continue on the othjer issues, if you haven't done them
[15:57] <dobey> aquarius: we don't use pylint on the client, and pyflakes doesn't complain
[16:02] <dobey> why oh why rhythmbox, did you stick some of my quite old mp3s in "recently added"?
[16:53] <beuno> rodrigo_, sure, I think it's just js now
[16:53] <beuno> will let you know as I progress
[16:54] <rodrigo_> ok
[17:28] <beuno> rodrigo_, bug 494322 and 501020 feel like dupes
[17:28] <beuno> what's your take?
[17:29] <rodrigo_> beuno, they are indeed
[17:29] <beuno> I will do the honors
[18:08]  * rye is slow today, will shutdown now to prevent damage to the source code
[18:14] <beuno> rodrigo_, getting closer
[18:14] <beuno> need to figure out why the save call returns HTML
[18:14] <beuno> and I think we have a working notes web UI which saves
[18:50] <beuno> rodrigo_, got a minute?
[18:51] <beuno> I've traced the remaining issue down to a URL not returning json when it should
[18:52] <beuno> aquarius, maybe you can help as well  :)
[19:24] <beuno> rodrigo_, branch proposed!
[20:29] <dobey> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=157659&id=122313196726&saved#!/photo.php?pid=4039110&id=122313196726
[20:29] <dobey> whoot.
[20:31] <beuno> dobey, look at that!  one step closer from uninstalling Firefox!
[20:32] <dobey> too bad I'm not working on a facebook app
[20:32] <beuno> one step at a time
[20:33] <dobey> Well, with FB, I don't also have to build the API. It's already mostly all there. :)
[20:51] <rodrigo_> beuno, cool, reviewing it now
[20:51] <beuno> rodrigo_, thanks. I'm unsure about a specific part of it, I mentioned it in the MP
[20:53] <beuno> rodrigo_, the branch went deeper than I expected, I can tell you that
[20:54] <rodrigo_> :)
[20:55] <beuno> it also made me realize I need to spend 2 or 3 days cleaning up CSS, javascript files and templates
[20:55] <beuno> they're all clustered into sections
[20:55] <beuno> the app is still small enough to fix it in a reasonable time frame
[20:55] <beuno> in 6 months, no way
[20:56]  * beuno eyeballs jblount to pair with him in the neat future
[21:08] <rodrigo_> beuno, approved!
[21:09] <beuno> rodrigo_, woooo!  thanks, on its way to PQM
[21:10] <rodrigo_> beuno, ping some losa when it gets merged, so that it gets deployed asap
[21:10] <beuno> rodrigo_, this will need to get cherrypicked into production?
[21:11] <rodrigo_> beuno, not sure what the process is, it depends what other revisions there are before
[21:11] <rodrigo_> beuno, so better ask a losa :-)
[21:11] <beuno> rodrigo_, will do
[21:15] <beuno> rodrigo_, what if we let it roll out to edge first, test it, then cherry pick?
[21:15] <rodrigo_> beuno, yeah, sounds good
[21:15] <beuno> or is production broken enough that whatever will be better?
[21:15] <beuno> super
[21:15] <rodrigo_> well, web ui editing of notes is completely broken
[21:16] <rodrigo_> but going through edge should be ok, it gets rolled every 4 hours there, I think
[21:16] <beuno> yeah, I'll let all the moving parts settle, we should have it on edge tomorrow, and have statik and other around to help us with the cherrypick
[21:18] <rodrigo_> ok


[14:15] <dandrader> greyback, a simple one: https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/qtubuntu/winIdIsMirSurface/+merge/296794
[14:16] <greyback> dandrader: I think mir  has api for surfaces to get a persistent ID. That would be more suitable than a pointer
[14:16] <dandrader> greyback, oh, it's missing the prereq. just a sec
[14:17] <dandrader> greyback, there https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/qtubuntu/winIdIsMirSurface/+merge/296795
[14:18] <dandrader> greyback, you need a pointer to refer to the surface in mir's client API
[14:18] <dandrader> greyback, and that's unique from the applications point of view
[14:19] <dandrader> greyback, it's used here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dandrader/ubuntu-keyboard/mirSurfaceInputBounds/revision/473
[14:20] <dandrader> greyback, in src/plugin/mirinputregionupdater.cpp
[14:20] <dandrader> greyback, will propose those other branches once I'm finished with testing. but got diverted by https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtmir/+bug/1588929
[14:21] <greyback> dandrader: sure, but winId() is more suited to the persistent ID that works across processes. Say process A wants to child its window to process B, IMO winId is way to communicate that
[14:25] <greyback> I think the native window interface thingy would be good enough to return the raw mir pointer to a qwindow
[14:25] <dandrader> greyback, so you want it to return MirPersistentId then. Then how do you suggest an app to get the MirSurface* of its QWindow?
[14:27] <greyback> dandrader: I think we already do in QPlatformNativeInterface::windowProperty
[14:28] <greyback> well our subclass of it
[14:42] <sil2100> Saviq, tsdgeos: hey! Could you guys help me out and give https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1498 a spin once you have a minute?
[14:43] <tsdgeos> sil2100: yes
[14:43] <sil2100> Thanks :)
[15:08] <tsdgeos> sil2100: works fine here \o/
[15:09] <sil2100> Wooo \o/
[15:09] <sil2100> tsdgeos: thanks!
[15:29] <lborda> hi alicia
[20:38] <Trevinho> cimi: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-settings-components/cmake-staging-install-fix
[23:25] <jarlath> I'm not seeing updates to Unity 8 desktop on 16.04, yet 16.10 seems to be ahead in develpment. Is 16.04 Unity 8 'parked'?
[23:42] <cimi> jarlath, you have stable phone overlay PPA?
[23:44] <jarlath> cimi : No, the standard unity8-desktop in the 16.04 archive. I'm told phone overlay hasn't got the desktop components
[23:46] <cimi> jarlath, we still use that PPA as  base, the stack is the same, if you can upgrade 16.10 will have what's most recent
[23:47] <jarlath> Thanks cimi. Might do that. Is the plan going forward to move with the releases?
[23:48] <cimi> jarlath, I am going to upgrade soon over the next weeks, but so far I develop in xenial + phone overlay PPA
[23:48] <cimi> jarlath, then every once a while we do landings and we create PPA for testing new features
[23:49] <cimi> but you shouldn't worry about those, they might break things :)
[23:49] <jarlath> cimi, thats good enough for me. Ill go with phone overlay :) Thanks again.
[23:51] <cimi> jarlath, you're welcome :)


[00:00] <chrisccoulson> hggdh - apport should catch SIGABRT now
[00:01] <chrisccoulson> certainly for GNOME stuff, there's a glib patch to allow apport to catch the assertion messag
[00:01] <chrisccoulson> e
[00:01] <hggdh> chrisccoulson: GREAT news! I never fully understood why ABRTs are out...
[00:01] <hggdh> s/are/were/
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> it never caught SIGABRT before because the interesting bit is often in the assertion message, which couldn't be captured before
[00:04] <hggdh> well, OK, the assertion text was not always displayed on a bt full, but I would say about half of the times I ran under GDB
[00:05] <hggdh> sometimes the buffer was optimised out
[00:07] <chrisccoulson> glibc has a symbol for storing assert messages, and this string appears in the coredump, which is what apport uses to create the crash report
[01:04] <slicer> yofel: Sorry about the late reply, this was bug #498095 . I closed it as invalid for now, but that doesn't really feel right.
[01:04] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498095 in mumble "Mumble 1.2 packaging for Karmic 9.10" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498095
[01:06] <yofel> hm, the fact that this was filed in the wrong way would justify 'Invalid' IMHO
[01:06] <yofel> at least the 'packaging request' is invalid
[01:10] <komputes> I need some help. Does someone know how to quickly use this file to check how out-of sync the package versions listed are, compared the current package versions - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32031645/Dependencies.txt
[01:15] <slicer> yofel: Ok, that means my guess was correct then, and I know what to do in the future. Thanks.
[01:15] <micahg> komputes: why do you need to check?
[01:16] <micahg> slicer: yofel: I believe we usually just
[01:16] <micahg> "fix" those packaging bugs to relate to the newest release
[01:16] <slicer> micahg: In which case it was filed after the fix was released.
[01:17] <micahg> slicer: it's fix released when it's in Lucid, not unstable
[01:17] <yofel> micahg: mumble 1.2.0~beta1 is in lucid
[01:18] <micahg> yofel: yes, but the bug was for the full release
[01:19] <micahg> so it's still valid until it's sync'd from unstable
[01:19] <micahg> ..err...testing
[01:19] <slicer> micahg: I thought we only sync from testing since 10.04 is LTS?
[01:19] <slicer> micahg: nvm :)
[01:19] <yofel> ah yeah, the full release is in unstable but not in testing yet
[01:20] <yofel> do we need a sync request then?
[01:20] <yofel> or will that be auto-synced?
[01:20] <slicer> And it won't be in testing until the dependencies get built on mipsel. *Sigh*
[01:20] <komputes> micahg: to see which packages have changed, tracking down a fix and where it came from.
[01:20] <komputes> micahg: do you know an automatic way of comparing the packages in the list to the current repos?
[01:21] <micahg> yofel: probably auto-sync'd, but the bug is still valid until it happens..a sync request isn't appropriate yet
[01:21] <slicer> yofel: I think the import freeze is Feb 11th.
[01:21] <micahg> komputes: I don't, but what's the bug #?
[01:21] <komputes> micahg: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/431147
[01:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 431147 in gdm "Cannot Unlock "System > Administration > Login Screen"" [Low,Incomplete]
[01:22] <slicer> yofel: I really hope they fix the deps on mipsel before that :)
[01:22] <komputes> micahg: it only affects a few users, but is very annoying.
[01:22] <komputes> micahg: and it seems to go away on it own for some
[01:23] <micahg> komputes: what makes you think an update fixed it?
[01:25] <komputes> micahg: personal experience
[01:26] <micahg> komputes: you might have better luck going to b.g.o and searching quickly
[01:26] <komputes> micahg: sorry? bgo?
[01:26] <micahg> bugzilla.gnome.org
[01:26] <komputes> sure, brb
[01:28] <micahg> komputes: BTW, my guess is every important package changed since that bug report :)
[01:31] <komputes> micahg: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=gnome-system-tools&content=unlock
[01:31] <komputes> not much from the cover, let me delve in a bit
[01:34] <komputes> micahg: do you know what needs to be done to mark a bug as a duplicate of another in gnome bugzilla?
[01:36] <micahg> komputes: sorry, no idea
[01:37] <micahg> komputes: list of gnome IRC channels: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeIrcChannels
[01:38] <komputes> micahg: connecting now thanks
[15:09] <BUGabundo> olá
[21:39] <copernic> I accedently nominated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/405656 for Jaunty, how do I undo it ? :)
[21:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 405656 in linux "wireless networks not detected - Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG" [Medium,Triaged]
[21:40] <micahg> copernic: you can't
[21:41] <copernic> :'(
[21:41] <micahg> copernic: a core-dev would have to reject it
[21:44] <copernic> micahg, ok I posted it in the comments
[21:44] <micahg> copernic: it's no big deal
[21:46] <copernic> micahg, ah ok, thx for setting me at ease :)
[21:46] <micahg> copernic: most of the time, those aren't acted on unless someone submits a patch
[21:47] <copernic> ic
[22:42] <malev> hi, can anyone help me with this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/497221
[22:42] <dragon> Karmic took away the ability to set gdm greeter theme and to hide individual users. Does this regression qualify for a bug?
[22:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497221 in linux "No sound in HP Pavilion dv6z laptop with ubuntu 9.10" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[22:43] <dragon> malev: I assume you've been through the docs.
[22:43] <malev> dragon, what docs? the wiki about debbugging sound problems, yes
[22:44] <micahg> dragon: the second part has been filed multiple times already
[22:45] <dragon> micahg: could you point me to it? I've been looking.
[22:46] <dragon> micahg: I need a workaround for hiding a user from gdm, since I'm setting this machine for someone else.
[22:46] <micahg> dragon: use kdm :)
[22:46] <dragon> hah
[22:46] <micahg> dragon: I think bug 445123
[22:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 445123 in gdm "No GUI option to disable face browser" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445123
[22:47] <dragon> ah it's a gnome thing
[22:47] <dragon> I thought Ubuntu folks took this away
[22:47] <micahg> dragon: nope, it was upstream gnoem
[22:48] <dragon> micahg: in that case I believe it could be done from the command line.
[22:48] <dragon> I think it was a matter of adding a user to a group
[22:51] <dragon> micahg: they rewrote GDM but not the gdmsetup utility yet. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587750
[22:51] <ubot4> Gnome bug 587750 in general "GDM rewrite needs a configuration GUI panel similar to 2.20 (gdmsetup)" [Minor,New]
[22:51] <dragon> it's a regression
[22:51] <dragon> but since it's already in launchpad...
[22:51] <micahg> dragon: regression, yes, but an upstream one :)
[22:53] <dragon> yes


 @dave1152000 [Stops at Recovery Screen in the Android log it says update failed, please reboot …], Please wipe data, system and cache from TWRP and try again
 @fredldotme [Please wipe data, system and cache from TWRP and try again], Ok will give that a try tomorrow.
 @fredldotme [Please wipe data, system and cache from TWRP and try again], Thanks that worked
 @Javacookies [<reply to media>], ooh works nicely
 @Javacookies [<reply to media>], Spam
 Pablo, please stop messing with people and generally being annoying. This is your last warning.
 Oh wait, you already got a last warning.
 @lduboeuf [So theorically we should be able to run gimp on pinephone ? https://twitter.com/ …], if you can make it work on 16.04, I guess? … theoritically, UT on pine can run apps that supports wayland but are there such apps on the repo?
 @Javacookies [<reply to media>], awesome! needs a bit of theme work, but really cool
 @lduboeuf [So theorically we should be able to run gimp on pinephone ? https://twitter.com/ …], once gtk is updated i think
 so probally not untill the next version jump in pratice i think
 theroy is you might be able to put everything you need gtk version and all in a click :)
[05:12] <ubptgbot> Vivekop was added by: Vivekop
[05:15] <ubptgbot> Paulo Ads was added by: Paulo Ads
[05:16] <ubptgbot> <Paulo Ads> Hello. I need help for install Ubuntu touch in N5.
 @Paulo Ads [Hello. I need help for install Ubuntu touch in N5.], Whats the problem?
[08:36] <ubptgbot> ellis MOSCA was added by: ellis MOSCA
[09:16] <parva2005> So... NixPhone is in alpha now, any python + QT + Linux developers with significant skill interested in a phone to dev apps with and get paid to report bugs at the same time? it runs 100% stable with no apps or API utilization using Enlightenment, and it's ready to start being made proper for release. still hoping you guys will decide to replace halium with this because we'll, it's better in every way and supports to some extent b
[09:18] <parva2005> free S10+ to any developer with a github portfolio that impressed me enough to give it to you. app store proceeds go 100% to the devs but we need free apps for basic purposes.
[09:19] <parva2005> it's got 0 Android in it, and can run any Linux kernel bbased platform or system, and I have a partially working Android option in the bootloader but it's buggy. it's very nice but probably 2 years away from release. working on getting full support on the latest Galaxy S models since my dev device for most stuff is S10+ which is outdated
 how do you handle the hardware? is there a repo people can take a look at?
[09:33] <parva2005> well ubports said no reverse engineering or it won't be considered... but what if the bulld system reworks the drivers into assembly and links them to the kernel... the dev computer isn't obligated to follow ToS lol... that part only works on Samsung Exynos 8 and 9 and all Pixel devices so far
[09:36] <parva2005> I intend for it to support every device eventually without any manual porting but UT will need some mods to get unity8 going
[09:37] <parva2005> I have put in on an S20+ and it worked okay but the API wasn't accelerated the Graphics so the phone was slow
[09:38] <parva2005> I only want to support higher end phones, and offer support for older phones
[09:39] <parva2005> it can also boot Android in multiboot bootloader from a seperate virtual device image but Android doesn't like being booted from my boot system so probably I need to modify the AOSP kernel source to handle being booted with the right sequences
[09:40] <parva2005> right now there are 50 alpha testers who are all qualified app devs for the required skill sets needed... But still using 5.4 kernel because I haven't messed with the kernel in a while
[09:40] <parva2005> it is great... I host like 20 different web services on the phone I carry with me
 @parva2005 [it is great... I host like 20 different web services on the phone I carry with m …], What makes no sense to me but ok ^^
[09:43] <parva2005> @flohack It's purely to test stuff out and put it through the ringer. I know you were one of the few who supported me doing this and thought it was good. well hopefully in 2 years I roll it out
[09:45] <parva2005> it's basically complete but barely tested and almost 0 apps in the app market, since the apps are not based on any existing app dev environment or system. I have 50 devs testing the APIs while they develop apps, And 100% of app costs will go to developers. also it has very primitive GearVR capability that doesn't impress anyone at all
[09:46] <parva2005> I am trying to make a phone for nerds and I will be selling them at cost despite years of work. I am already losing money by giving away phones to people to test with and paying for bug reports
[09:50] <parva2005> I run Enlightenment with Wayland on 5.4 kernel with custom python interpreter and full QT and phone function APIs as well as billing APIs and cloud resources and such... I have lots of work to do but it's in alpha. give it 2 or 3 years and expect free copies along with full source when it's complete. You might even get  few free phones to mess with trying to get your platform running on it before anyone goes out and spends $1000 o
[09:53] <parva2005> I have help from 2 other people who are better coders than me but not so great at the innovation part of the dev process... I want this to be the tech junkies phone OS of choice. it even can play Open Arena at 180 FPS with bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and everything is in one monolithic partition except the boot loader and flashing utility. none of this rootfs and userdata and changing rootfs breaking updatss
 Hello! I wanted to ask, but no one knows what MEGA clients are on ubuntu? And then I have all the files stored there and I would like to have access to them. And I also have a question. How to make your own Webapp? Otherwise, I need to make my own web app for one site, but I don't know how
[09:56] <parva2005> Just make a bash script that scrapes the site using ncat and string handling then calls get for relevant links. there isn't a huge app selection for UT which is a huge issue. web apps suck and QML apps are in efficient and also very few people are good with QML
[09:56] <parva2005> or use python script which is easier...
 It turns out that I will not be able to do it myself, but I have to ask someone ..... I just need a Habitica client (Gamification of tasks).  But at the same time, the question arises .... What language is the best to learn for comfortable work with ubuntu?
 @Mister_Tails121 [Well, here you are right (especially considering that I ... dream to write a lot …], You need C++ and QML at the moment ;)
[10:18] <parva2005> Yeah that's an issue I dislike too
 Why? Its not highly skilled C++, you dont need to use templates and such. Just basics
[10:20] <parva2005> C++ and QML in combination make it more of a learning curve for people who have never coded beford
[10:21] <parva2005> i will see if I can strip out the QT bindings from my python interpreter efficiently so you can add them instead of using c++ And QML
 @parva2005 [C++ and QML in combination make it more of a learning curve for people who have …], I agree but thats the same for all modern frameworks with a GUI. Think about Angular (nasty HTML and CSS embedded with Typescript) or WPF (.NET plus xaml) and so on. At the end of the day, you need a decsriptive UI language combined with a stro
[10:21] <ubptgbot> ng background language to be successful and feature-rich, async etc
 Also to split design from code, making MVVM patterns possible.
 Same goes on Android and even on Apple
 iOA I mean
 [Edit] iOS  I mean
[10:22] <parva2005> Flohack, python with django for a front end as a webapp interface with a high level easy to learn language such as python
[10:23] <parva2005> ios is horrible
[10:23] <parva2005> I am dealing with app dev for lately
 Hehe yes
[10:25] <parva2005> I cant stand it. reminds me of going to the dentist
 You can do basic stuff on UT with pyotherside. I think QML bindings for python are also possible. But Qt/QML is the UI framework we support, and a bit of KDE/Kirigami. We cannot ship tons of UI frameworks due to space considerations and conflicting dependencies
[10:25] <parva2005> my boss keeps telling me to invent stuff and I have no idea what makes her think I can but I keep surprising her
 @Mister_Tails121 [Hello! I wanted to ask, but no one knows what MEGA clients are on ubuntu? And th …], If am not mistaken and if it's the same mega, I think someone's developing an app for mega
 @Javacookies [If am not mistaken and if it's the same mega, I think someone's developing an ap …], I hope so .... Otherwise, it's hard without normal file synchronization
[10:28] <parva2005> forget file hosting platforms get 2 Vps in very different locations and push to and between and pull at will
[10:28] <parva2005> MEGA is for piracy and I'm sure we can all agree that is wrong
 @Mister_Tails121 [I hope so .... Otherwise, it's hard without normal file synchronization], I'm not really familiar with mega...is that megaupload? 😄 … anyway here's the link of the app if you want to check its development … https://github.com/Roker2/UBports_Mega
 @Javacookies [I'm not really familiar with mega...is that megaupload? 😄 … anyway here's the li …], Yes, exactly what you thought) … Google Drive analog … Thanks for the link)
 I still don't get OTA-14 on my Xperia X, is that expected? is it still a gradual release?
 Yes : Devices will randomly receive the update starting today through November 11.
 [Edit] Yes : "Devices will randomly receive the update starting today through November 11."
 "If you would like to receive the update immediately, turn on ADB access and issue the following command over 'adb shell': … sudo system-image-cli -v -p 0 --progress dots"
 @libremax [Yes : "Devices will randomly receive the update starting today through November …], this was in thr blog post? … I guess I skipped that part 😅
 anyway, thanks … I thought we already switched to a faster deployment like in just 2 days
 @Javacookies [this was in thr blog post? … I guess I skipped that part 😅], Yes, sure, it's not from my own
[11:38] <ubptgbot> Chris B. was added by: Chris B.
 ohw the system follows a different architecture, that's going to take a lot of resources to adapt ut to, which is probably not going to happen soon.
 i do remember the reverse engineering discussion but iirc that was more about deassembling and studying the code
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/EZuRKkT4.png Instalation ended
 nice
[13:30] <ubptgbot> <Matilde rosemary> (Photo, 607x891) https://irc.ubports.com/h4y1Ayxh.png
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/iMWF2nmT.webp
 time to buy a slimport adapter 😀
 (Photo, 130x163) https://irc.ubports.com/nXeq6yOP.png i like this youtube banner artwork
 shoutout to whoever made it
 @parva2005 [I have help from 2 other people who are better coders than me but not so great a …], Well tech junky phone OS is ok, but we try to do a bit more of an everyday phone OS for everyone. So stability over performance, simplicity over features. Your grandma should be able to use Ubuntu Touch as daily
 So I dont think we can be much of a help with what you want
 Remember, kids: "Ubuntu: Linux for human beings"
 Lol exactly
 i mean if that underlying driver framework is useful that could help but without source there's not much we can do with it
 @parva2005 [well ubports said no reverse engineering or it won't be considered... but what i …], i.e. i'm not sure if this system is usable and without the source there's not much we can do yet on ut side
 @Mister_Tails121 [Well, here you are right (especially considering that I ... dream to write a lot …], Actually I know no c++ but get along quite well with app dev. QML is a must (almost). Javascript works with QML and some python. Rust works and go. Plenty of things to pick from. Everything with its ups and downs. Not that hard to learn.
[15:31] <ubptgbot> I did not know what qml is three years ago when I started coding for UT.
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/Z8QonUHk.png
 I'm don't recept SMS
 It's not SMS
 it's code in app
[15:56] <ubptgbot> Pete Nell was added by: Pete Nell
 i think he means he didnt get the sms code
 that tg sends
 sms code
 usually if I'm already logged in some place else (ie. the desktop website) it just snds the code there instead of via SMS
 yes
 yeah that too
 that's how it works, on android there's also option to send code in sms, but it's not available in teleports :(
 [Edit] that's how it works, on official app there's also option to send code in sms, but it's not available in teleports :(
 👍🏼
 @just_carlod [that's how it works, on official app there's also option to send code in sms, bu …], Its kinda security feature, only send SMS when really needed, as it could be intercepted. If you are logged in with another session the code will go there
[16:38] <ubptgbot> Akshay was added by: Akshay
 https://icedevelop.com/store/product/1-yoast-seo-premium-wordpress-plugin/
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/zKAEOdIQ.png Update to OTA_14, Thank a lot Ubports Team !
 OTA-14 rollout is taking a bit!
[18:51] <ubptgbot> user2315 was added by: user2315
 Live
 We're live! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Z1_KKWL00
 👍👍👍
 oops missed the start
 why can't i hear anything
 bah youtube was muted for some reason
 welp can't join today
 Qestion: When is full device encryption is planned for roll-out?
 full device encryption is not planned yet
 OK.
 if it was easy, it'd be there already :)
 Why there is no app for video calls? Is it UT issue or apps developers?
 i mean even if it was planned it wouldn't mean it would be easy
 @dohbee [if it was easy, it'd be there already :)], Makes sense :)
 @user2315 [Why there is no app for video calls? Is it UT issue or apps developers?], browser engine issue
 @Flohack [Well its just an addition to voice calls. So basically you have a p2p video stre …], 👍👍👍
 @user2315 [👍👍👍], Wut?
 @Flohack [Wut?], three months ago…
 @dohbee [three months ago…], Ahh I see now. Yes this still stands ^^
 oh my goodness
 I found the answer to my questions about video calls support from a few months back and thanked you with "👍" :)
 you have to web push it @UniversalSuperBox
[19:51] <ubptgbot> RedDroid07 was added by: RedDroid07
 i think we should get rid of the `OTA-N` release numbering anyway @UniversalSuperBox and switch to something like `YY.MM`
[19:53] <ubptgbot> Bushchik was added by: Bushchik
[20:11] <comradekingu> dohbee Isn't it easier to delineate sequential numbers?
 yes but its easier to track dates
 @comradekingu [dohbee Isn't it easier to delineate sequential numbers?], Turns out we have a global standard calendar, which increments :)
[20:24] <comradekingu> We have a inquiring user in chat, which argues ;) I find it easier to know how many versions have passed between two incrementing numbers, as opposed to two dates at (?) random
 I don't see why the number of releases between two arbitrary points is relevant
 yeah, I think after 10 it got just as hard to track
 like after opera switched away from the waterfall development
[20:40] <comradekingu> ubuntulog2: How is the number 10, when you make it the number 20, and add something on, easier to track?
 See? Everyone hates every version numbering scheme
 It's completely arbitrary, but everyone has reasons for why each one is wrong
[20:41] <comradekingu> It ascribes some information to it, and you can reasonably guess when what you are using is out of date
[20:41] <comradekingu> Seeing as they are presumably both bad, isn't switching from one or the other worse?
[20:42] <comradekingu> to the other*
 The best would be rolling release with no numbering scheme
 I know it's impossible
 We haven't made any decision. I just said that I had problems with the current one, and we could talk about others
 But then I realized that everyone hates every scheme, and therefore it probably doesn't matter that I dislike this one.
 Ubuntu Touch is technically a rolling release @just_carlod.
 It is also technically *not* a rolling release. The term is too loaded.
 @comradekingu [ubuntulog2: How is the number 10, when you make it the number 20, and add someth …], dev and rc follow diffrent numbers
 so dev is in hundreds, and diffrent on each device
 maybe?
 The version numbers that show on the Updates page are different from the version tag that is shown in Settings->About
 might be neat to have the version numbers be related to a date, and keep that date through the rc/stable process
 @UniversalSuperBox [We haven't made any decision. I just said that I had problems with the current o …], interesting thought, certainly something to think about and weigh options
 so maybe not thinking in terms of what people like, and look at what it could do for automation, or usefulness to the project
 @mateosalta [might be neat to have the version numbers be related to a date, and keep that da …], dev is the current date, rc is the week number ;)
 @mateosalta [might be neat to have the version numbers be related to a date, and keep that da …], [Edit] dev is the current date, rc is the current week number, stable current month ;)
[21:18] <comradekingu> How about the number like it is, and the codename something to do with the date
[21:19] <comradekingu> OTA-19 World autism day
 because we have 3 channels each with a different update cycle
 dev and rc already use date as version number, dev uses the current date, rc uses the current week number
 date also has the benefit of when the update was released
 @UniversalSuperBox [But then I realized that everyone hates every scheme, and therefore it probably …], my main issues are the inconsistency across channels, and the fact that we label stable releases as `OTA` despite all updates on all channels being over-the-air
 (and yes, i've always had a problem with it :P)
 @Fuseteam [because we have 3 channels each with a different update cycle], more than 3 :)
 I think the problem with changing it to a date is that it can easily be wrong when talking about it, as in "Ok so OTA 20.12 will be out and it'll feature better scrolling" "we missed the deadline so OTA 20:12 is now 21:01" and you know how people out the loop can miss out on so many update, and stuff like this.
 Also, don't forget people just forgetting the numbers after the dot, as they do with Ubuntu proper.
 @PhoenixLandPirate [I think the problem with changing it to a date is that it can easily be wrong wh …], no. we won't change the label in that case
 and it's not "OTA anything" it's just "stable version 20.12" or whatever
 or we could just do `YY.N` where N is just the incremental release for the year. but the main point is to get consistency across all the release labeling
 (i also think we should rename the channels to match debian, so stable/testing/unstable/experimental)
 more accurate description in the name, and should reduce confusion about what to expect from them
 Or just Ubuntu Touch 15
 That'd work
 Dev is "Dev WW.YY"
 RC is 15.rc1 for example
 devel is already just a date stamp, and rc is already YYYY-wWW
 Ok
 Hi all, I have found this js lib which is a part of ubports: promise-android-tools. … Can I ask if it's using a WebUSB thing, so I could make a website with this one. Thanks before.
[22:24] <ubptgbot> fekz115 was added by: fekz115
 @dohbee [more than 3 :)], I have no idea how edge and community channels are versioned


[07:40] <zyga> good mornign
[07:50] <mborzecki> morning
[07:55] <mvo> good morning mborzecki
[07:55] <mborzecki> mvo: hey
[08:03] <mborzecki> mvo: can you land https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9927 ? it's the reference rpm spec for fedora, but a spread job on uc20 failed
[08:03] <mup> PR #9927: packaging/fedora: sync with downstream packaging in Fedora <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9927>
[08:04] <mborzecki> (oh and it needs a 2nd review)
[08:05] <mvo> mborzecki: sure
[08:08] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks!
[08:10] <mup> PR snapd#9927 closed: packaging/fedora: sync with downstream packaging in Fedora <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9927>
[08:15] <pstolowski> morning
[08:15] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[08:30] <zyga> hey guys
[08:31] <mvo> hey zyga
[08:31] <mvo> and good morning pstolowski
[08:34] <pstolowski> o/
[10:34] <mborzecki> pedronis: replied under https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9921/files/940b71fefdeadd4d2d1823139a8529b907117876#r575128036
[10:34] <mup> PR #9921: boot: helper for setting up a try recover system  <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9921>
[10:35] <pedronis> mborzecki: do be clear both our comments are about unexpected reboots, not expected reboots
[10:35] <pedronis> *to be clear
[10:36] <mborzecki> pedronis: right, unless snapd_recovery_mode/snapd_recovery_system is modified we should not boot into the tried recovery system
[10:37] <mborzecki> pedronis: and the first case would be when we unexpectedly reboot in SetTryRecoverySystem() cleanup, but we still haven't modified snapd_* variables, as this is done by devicemgr.Reboot(mode,system)
[10:38] <mborzecki> pedronis: and the other case is unexpected reboot when we're back in run mode after having tried the system or just cleaning up, the snapd_* boot vars should be set to boot into run mode only at this point
[10:38] <mborzecki> does that make sense? :)
[10:39] <pedronis> mborzecki: tbh, I think maybe you should quickly write down how you expect this to work, I mean the flow and the way the vars change at different point. It might make reviewing things piece by piece easier
[10:40] <mborzecki> pedronis: sure, let me update the doc
[10:40] <mborzecki> and maybe we can have a quick chat before the standup then
[10:40] <pedronis> ok
[10:40] <pedronis> maybe invite Ian as well (not sure he can make it though)
[10:42] <mborzecki> hm if he can't make it, i suspect the interview won't take the whole hour, co we can do it afterwards too
[11:05] <mborzecki> pedronis: updated the doc now
[11:08] <mborzecki> mvo: have you looked more into the boot-state tool?
[11:12] <pedronis> mborzecki: I have other meetings after the interview
[11:14] <mvo> mborzecki: was in calls until just now, I have the spread debug shell still open
[11:14] <mvo> mborzecki: I check it now
[11:25] <mvo> mborzecki: mystery solved I think, one sec
[11:26] <mvo> mborzecki: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/tests/lib/tools/boot-state#L107 if run_grub_editenv fails it will then fallback to manipulate it with sed
[11:26]  * pstolowski lunch
[11:27] <mvo> mborzecki: so yeah, fine to use but probably best to have snap debug set-bootenv or something
[11:27] <mvo> mborzecki: anyway, your call :)
[11:27] <mborzecki> mvo: uhh, still kind of sucks there isn't even a crc32 of the grub bootenv
[11:28] <mvo> mborzecki: +1
[11:51] <mup> PR snapd#9915 closed: snap-confine.apparmor.in: support tmp and log dirs on Yocto/Poky <Created by om26er> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9915>
[11:53] <mborzecki> mvo: can you cherry pick those patches ^^ to 2.49?
[12:12] <mvo> mborzecki: sure, done
[12:12] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks!
[12:12] <mvo> mborzecki: they will only make it into a possible 2.49.1 of course
[12:13] <mborzecki> sure
[13:31] <ijohnson> hey mborzecki just saw the meeting invite, I'll try to be there in a couple minutes but you can start without me
[13:31] <mborzecki> ijohnson: sure
[13:51] <mup> PR snapd#9893 closed: store: support validation sets with fetch-assertions action <Needs Samuele review> <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9893>
[14:00] <dot-tobias> just out of curiosity: Is there a way to refresh a snap if the installed revision's pre-refresh hook has an error that will always cause the hook to abort? Like
[14:01] <dot-tobias> (nmv the “Like”)
[14:32] <mup> PR snapd#9929 opened: wrappers: use proper paths for mocked mount units in tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9929>
[15:00] <ijohnson> dot-tobias: not unless you have the user revert the snap to a different revision with `snap revert` and then refresh past the broken one to a new one, or remove it and reinstall it
[15:02] <mup> PR snapd#9908 closed: snap: rename gdbserver option to `snap run --gdbserver` <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9908>
[15:02] <mup> PR snapd#9930 opened: asserts: pool changes and RefreshValidationSetAssertions method for validation-sets <Needs Samuele review> <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9930>
[15:03] <ijohnson> pedronis: so the main issue with my repair branch is just that this new test account-key should have authority-id and account-id set to "testrootrepair" ?
[15:03] <ijohnson> if so I can fix that easily
[16:02] <dot-tobias> ijohnson: Thanks for clarifying! Only affects the edge channel, so shouldn't be a huge problem as it's only for internal testing and a handful of “I know things might break” users.
[16:21] <gbisson> Hi all, going back to updating my gadget from 18 to 20, as suggested I copied the logic from rpi boot.scr (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flash-kernel/+bug/1871831) however I have 2 issues:
[16:21] <mup> Bug #1871831: Consolidate Core and Classic bootscripts <id-5c501f2e81928a584cabbed9> <id-5ece777ab7290a556dec3440> <flash-kernel (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871831>
[16:21] <gbisson> 1- the CRC of boot.sel seems to be wrong or missing as my uboot can't import boot.sel
[16:22] <gbisson> 2- even when removing the CRC check, it seems like I'm missing things as the recovery install doesn't do anything
[16:23] <gbisson> see this log when it fails: https://gist.github.com/gibsson/c09efaa2da7cd8b7c330cef8f4eb3cbb
[16:23] <gbisson> for 1) who generates the recovery boot.sel? where can I check that the CRC is generated?
[16:25] <gbisson> for 2) can I enable some debug outputs to know more? seems to be looking for a writable LABEL but I don't understand how this could work on pi: https://github.com/snapcore/pi-gadget/blob/20-arm64/gadget.yaml
[16:27] <pedronis> ijohnson: no, they both need to be testrootorg
[16:52] <ijohnson> pedronis: why do they both need to be testrootorg? it seems misleading since we are creating an additional account-key with account-id of testrootorg and even signed by the other testrootorg account-key
[16:52] <pedronis> ijohnson: sounds we need a chat
[16:52] <ijohnson> hmm ok, I have 5 minutes right now ?
[16:53] <pedronis> ijohnson: going to the SU
[17:37] <mup> PR snapd#9931 opened: asserts: repeat the authority cross-check in CheckSignature as well <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9931>
[17:46] <pedronis> ijohnson: ^
[17:47] <ijohnson> thanks, just got done with the interview, so I'll loop back on that now
[17:56] <pedronis> ijohnson: np, no super hurry, but it's definitely the kind of things that was easier to do immediately than queue it for me
[17:57] <mup> PR snapd#9929 closed: wrappers: use proper paths for mocked mount units in tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9929>
[18:48] <mup> PR snapd#9916 closed: daemon: move postSnap and inst.dispatch tests to api_snaps_test.go <Skip spread> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9916>
[21:08] <mup> PR snapd#9923 closed: o/snapstate/check_snap.go: add support for many subversions in assumes snapdX <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9923>
[21:32] <om26er> I changed my login.ubuntu.com username but it did not change my Snap Store ID, why ?
[21:33] <om26er> Also where can I find roadmr, I don't see him here these days ?
[21:39] <pedronis> ijohnson: I commented on your questions in the standup doc
[21:39] <ijohnson> ah thanks pedronis
[22:23] <mup> PR snapd#9932 opened: [RFC] o/configstate/configcore: support snap set system swap.size= <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9932>


[05:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[06:26] <knightwise> morning brobostigon
[06:26] <knightwise> another hot one today
[06:30] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[06:30] <brobostigon> https://darksky.net/forecast/52.0854,-1.3369/uk224/en oh yes, :(
[06:40] <knightwise> been looking at Evolution as a mail client for my linux machine
[06:40] <knightwise> amazed at how far its come
[06:41] <brobostigon> yes, it mostly works pretty well.


[06:26] <karneios> Good morning, I am on kubuntu 20.10 and have a problem with both dolphin and gwenview chrashin
[06:27] <karneios> *crashing
[06:27] <karneios> Would somebody be enough kind to help me out?
[08:44] <ruedii> Hello, I am having trouble with my Rx5500 card freezing the display during the boot process?
[08:46] <ruedii> The problem is at the line "[    0.783826] kernel: fb0: switching to amdgpudrmfb from EFI VGA"
[08:48] <ruedii> This is followed by "Console: switching to colour dummy device 80x25"  Clearly it is not properly detecting my display.
[08:51] <ruedii>  Hello, I am having trouble with my Rx5500 card freezing the display during the boot process.  Could someone help?
[08:51] <ruedii> Sorry to repeat.
[09:34] <ruedii> The other relevent lines are "amdgpu: failed send message: EnableAllSmuFeatures (6)"
[09:34] <ruedii> and "[drm:amdgpu_device_ip_init [amdgpu]] *ERROR* hw_init of IP block <smu> failed -62"
[09:34] <ruedii> could someone help me figure this out.
[09:45] <ruedii> An extensive google search gave me two leads.  It's possibly my BIOS is initializing my IOMMU wrong, so turning it off on in the BIOS might fix this.
[10:35] <bcachefs-newbie> ruedii: there is a history of IOMMU troubles, so sometimes it is food to try kernel boot parameter "iommu=soft"
[10:36] <bcachefs-newbie> ruedii: but your errors might me firmware missing errors.
[10:36] <ruedii> Yes, and I did find a lead that it can cause this particular issue.
[12:20] <ruedii> Nope didn't help to turn off iommu in the BIOS and it's reporting no hardware IOMMU in the boot sequence.
[12:21] <ruedii> I don't see a firmware missing error, but it still might be one.  A change in the driver could have caused it to crash without the firmware.
[12:56] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 I am Eric and have moved all of my computers over to Kubuntu.  I love the user experience.  However, I need to log into my office VPN using L2TP with IPsec  to a Meraki firewall.  I have having a terrilbe time finding VPN client. HELP!
[12:58] <ruedii> VPN is built into the network manager.
 The network manage does not seem to match the instructions on line.  Perhaps I have a different version.  Is there a way to remove the one that I have and replace it?
[13:00] <ruedii> What do you mean instructions online?
[13:00] <ruedii> Do you mean the instructions on the Kubuntu website, or your company's instructions for Windows.  Obviously they won't match the instructions for Windows as Kubuntu isn't Windows.
 I have been googling this solution and have not found instructions that match the network manager that my version of Kubuntu has?
[13:01] <ruedii> Try googling specifically for KDE.
[13:01] <ruedii> Or you could just open the network manager, select "Add new network" and you will see tons of VPN options there.
 I have tried that too.  I am  ususally a good googler.
[13:02] <BluesKaj> @Eric_4Z1UG, try L2TP and strongswan for ipsec in the package manager
[13:02] <ruedii> Have you tried just going to network configuration, and clicking the configuration button (with the two sliders) then the add network connection button (with the +)
[13:03] <ruedii> What version of Kubuntu are you using?
 Can I post a picture here?
[13:03] <ruedii> The current version is either 20.04 (Long Term Service) or 20.10 (Short Life)
 I have two versions.  On two computers I have Kubuntu 20.04  KDE Plasma 5.18.5
 My main system is Ubuntu 19.04 and KDE Plasma 5.16.5
 I would like the vpn to work on the Kubuntu 20.04
[13:14] <BluesKaj> @Eric_4Z1UG, did you see my post above? if so those 2 packages are your best bet...I used ipsec on l2tp successfully a few yrs ago
 I see it now.  I will try it.
 I have a user name, password, and shared key.  I don't have a certficate.
[13:18] <BluesKaj> also there are some tutorials on the web that you might search for
 Thanks, i will search for more.  It does amaze me that Cisco Meraki uses old VPN with little support for linux.
[14:47] <ruedii> Still having trouble with the AMDGPU driver.
[14:48] <BluesKaj> !crosspost | ruedii
[15:10] <ruedii> sorry
 Somebody please help me
 I literally can't install kubuntu 20.10 dual boot with windows
 I have tried everything I found on the web to trouble shoot but none worked.
 I constantly get efi error
 Windows is installed in mbr and legacy bios mode
 Any Idea?
 The device is fujitsu lifebook ah532, 4GB ram and corei5 3rd generation cpu
 Did you ensure to fully shutdown windows?
 https://www.howtogeek.com/349114/shutting-down-doesnt-fully-shut-down-windows-10-but-restarting-it-does/#:~:text=You%20can%20also%20perform%20a,press%20Ctrl%2BAlt%2BDelete.
 @DarinMiller, Yes. I am sure. I unchecked the fast boot and restarted the  Computer. I did all bios configurations too.
[17:53] <mparillo> If Windows is in MBR/Legacy BIOS, then you should also probably try to install Kubuntu in legacy mode. But if you are getting an EFI error, it sounds as if you are trying an EFI installation.
 @mparillo, Correct. But what ever I did was useless and installation media always tries to install in efi mode.
 @Farhad, I just installed linux mint 20.1 on the same device without any problem. … Is it possible the kubuntu installer causes the issue?
[19:32] <jaron_> hi! linux noob here, trying to set up conky, wondering if anyone can help me tweak the config file. change font size, stretch it to the height of the desktop, make it transparent, etc
[20:32] <valorie> jaron_: conky isn't KDE software, so most here won't know much about it
[20:32] <valorie> you might have better luck in #ubuntu
[20:39] <krytarik> valorie: Crossposting to there at the time yielded them a pointer towards #conky indeed.
[20:51] <Maik> valorie: better to guide them to #conky the next time :)
[20:51] <valorie> oh, I didn't know they had a chan
[20:52] <valorie> cross-posting = teh evil
[20:52] <Maik> no problem
[20:52] <Maik> lol
[21:03] <krytarik> ...As if so many requests about Conky pop up here.. >_<
[21:35] <Maik> conky is conky and not a *buntu support question or issue
[21:36] <Maik> just my 2 cents
[21:36] <Maik> :)
[21:44] <krytarik> My comment was aimed at the idea of establishing a process for handling those requests.  I agree that the Conky topic is easily too convoluted to have any place in any Ubuntu support channels.


[09:52] <Cimi> Saviq, hi, can you read me here?
[09:53] <olli_> hey Cimi, saviq is off today iirc
[09:54] <Cimi> olli_, good... this channel is so silent I was wondering if I had connectivity issues :)
[09:54] <Cimi> olli_, gm though, you in europe?
[09:56] <olli_> yeah, in .de for January
[09:56] <olli_> does anyone know how to run a qml locally on the phone
[09:57] <olli_> my attempts so far lead to nice core dumps
[10:01] <Cimi> olli_, should work from the sdk
[10:02] <Cimi> olli_, when you have your app in qt creator, just run it on the phone from the menu
[10:03] <Cimi> olli_, otherwise you have to kill the shell and its service, and run the qml file with qmlscene from adb shell
[10:04] <dednick> Cimi: could you do a review for me when you get a chance? https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-settings-components/slider-value-fix/+merge/199462
[10:06] <Cimi> dednick, sure
[11:27] <mhr3> can i get someone to ack https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/unity-scopes-shell/update-for-api-change/+merge/200517
[11:28] <mhr3> Cimi, dednick ^?
[11:28] <mhr3> it's a tiny change
[11:28] <dednick> mhr3: give me a sec
[11:29] <Cimi> mhr3, looks fine to me
[11:29] <mhr3> Cimi, can you give it top-lvl approve pls?
[11:29] <mhr3> everyone holidaying, no other approvers here :)
[11:29] <Cimi> mhr3, done
[11:30] <mhr3> thx
[12:30] <dandrader> greyback, hey
[12:30] <greyback> dandrader: hey
[12:31] <dandrader> greyback, did you try out the QML_DISABLE_DISTANCEFIELD env var?
[12:31] <greyback> dandrader: I did at some stage yes. Can't recall if it worked. Does it?
[12:31] <dandrader> greyback, don't know yet. still reading up stuff
[12:32] <greyback> dandrader: ok
[12:43] <dandrader> greyback, also, have you tried to "set the renderType property to NativeRendering in order to use the system back-end to rasterize the glyphs instead of Qt"?
[12:44] <dandrader> From http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2012/08/08/native-looking-text-in-qml-2/.
[12:44] <dandrader> I wonder if it has the same effect as QML_DISABLE_DISTANCEFIELD
[15:41] <elopio> Hello. I need a review, please.
[15:42] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/unity8/open_scope/+merge/200426
[15:42] <elopio> autopilot emulator stuff for scopes in unity 8 ^
[15:42] <elopio> somebody around?
[15:53] <mhall119> greyback: were you working on an API to detect the presence of a keyboard or mouse?  Something we can use for conditional layouts
[15:53] <greyback> mhall119: not me, best check with Kaleo
[15:54] <mhall119> thanks
[15:56] <elopio> Saviq: can you help me finding the right person to ping to look at my branch?
[15:59] <greyback> elopio: Saviq out today, as are many other unity8 folk
[16:03] <elopio> greyback: my bad luck.
[16:03] <elopio> I'll be back tomorrow.
[16:04] <greyback> Mirv: hey, I have the qt beta2 PPA installed, it's breaking my unity install unfortunately as unity needs bamfdaemon needs libunity-webapps0 needs libunity-webapps0 needs unity-webapps-service needs webbrowser-app, which won't install as it's for 5.0
[16:05] <greyback> Mirv: so can I ask you to push the 5.2 build of webbrowser-app up your queue a little please :)
[16:10] <mhr3> greyback, so is Mirv :)
[16:10] <greyback> mhr3: yep I guessed, but it'll be in his logs
[16:11] <mhr3> greyback, so where are you residing these days?
[16:11] <greyback> mhr3: back in Ireland for a while
[16:12] <mhr3> greyback, waiting for barcelona to get warmer? :)
[16:12] <greyback> mhr3: you go home for Xmas?
[16:12] <mhr3> yep, flying back to london tomorrow
[16:13] <greyback> mhr3: various reasons. Barcelona will have to wait a while.
[16:14] <mhr3> so you decided you miss rain? :)
[16:15] <kgunn> greyback: do you know any reason we "don't like" running unity8 always in testability mode ?
[16:15] <kgunn> relating to the old thread about pointers coord reporting to AP
[16:15] <dandrader> elopio, about finding the best person to review your code: do a bzr log or blame or the code you changed and around it
[16:16] <dandrader> elopio, but I guess aacid would be a good candidate
[16:16] <dandrader> (not around today)
[16:16] <dandrader> *on the code
[16:16] <kgunn> running testability plugin while testing seems sensible to /me
[16:18] <greyback> kgunn: I've no problem with it, if we're running tests. But it means if using phone, running an AP test will require unity8 to be restarted with testability enabled (unsure but think unable to turn it on during runtime)
[16:19] <greyback> kgunn: it's not something I'd like turned on permanently however, as could open giant security hole
[16:19] <elopio> dandrader: most of it was done by thomi. I was looking for somebody from the unity team, so you guys can take care of my code in case the UI changes :)
[16:19] <elopio> aacid sounds good indeed. From the calendar I get that he's back tomorrow.
[16:25] <kgunn> greyback: ack...i would also not advocate full-time use testability plugin...only for testing (like the name implies :)...is the restart of unity8 a pain point ?
[16:25] <kgunn> at least a pain for the ap guys ? or ?
[16:25] <kgunn> i mean...you'd just restart once in the beginning it'd seem
[16:26] <greyback> kgunn: yeah, that's all. I don't think it a huge deal tbh.
[16:29] <greyback> mhr3: yeah, I forgot the wonderful feeling of freezing cold rain in my face, not sure how I ever gave it up :P
[16:30] <mhr3> indeed, what a bliss! :)
[17:26] <tedg> bregma_, So, I have a touch screen now.  Can I make the-system-formerly-known-as-utouch simulate mousewheel with two finger scrolling?
[17:26] <bregma_> tedg, if you use ginn or touchegg, maybe
[17:26] <bregma_> a new release of ginn is upcoming that should work better
[17:27] <bregma_> this is a Trusty release goal
[17:27] <tedg> Ah, okay.
[17:28] <tedg> Seems I have ginn installed, does it need config?
[17:30] <tedg> Hmm "error subscribing to gestures"
[17:31] <tedg> Perhaps for me it should be jesters.
[17:31]  * tedg will be here all week, tip your waiters