[00:55] <cosmodad> is there a place to ask questions concerning the ubuntu building process, possibly here?
[00:55] <cosmodad> more precisely, questions regarding package building as done in Ubuntu.
[00:55] <persia> cosmodad: You could try here.  Depending on the question, it may be the right place.
[00:56] <cosmodad> persia: ok let me shoot.
[00:56] <cosmodad> I'm trying to add a patch to the thunderbird packages but already trouble with CDBS and quilt.
[00:56] <persia> I suspect for that, you want #ubuntu-mozillateam
[00:57] <cosmodad> persia: likely, but I suspect my question to be more of a general nature.
[00:57] <persia> OK.  Try again then :)
[00:57] <cosmodad> heh ok
[00:57] <cosmodad> I apt-get source'd the thunderbird source package which comes with a tarball'ed copy of the upstream source...
[00:58] <cosmodad> in order to see how quilt works, I unpacked the tarball and tried to push the first patch using `quilt push'.
[00:58] <cosmodad> when I try so, however, I get a "can't find file to patch at input line X" error.
[00:59] <persia> Ah.  Packages with built-in upstreaam tarballs can be tricky.
[00:59] <cosmodad> persia: is there something wrong with my approach?
[00:59] <persia> I don't think there is a quilt-edit-patch script (but I could be wrong).
[01:00] <cosmodad> even if not, shouldn't a plain quilt push work anyway?
[01:00] <persia> You'll need the unpacked, and patched source somehow, to create your patch.  I'm not sure of the standard way of generating that for thunderbird.  You likely do want a hint from #ubuntu-mozillateam, but your basic approach is correct.
[01:00] <cosmodad> ok.
[01:01] <cosmodad> persia: thanks for the starter, I'll try the mozilla branch of Ubuntu next.
[01:03] <persia> cosmodad: In general, you want to have the patched source (just apply all the patches in quilt), a quilt add, a quily push, a quilt refesh, unpatch everything with quilt, and try a build.  The only tricky part is making sure you prepare the patched source the same way it is usually prepared.
[01:04] <cosmodad> persia: the "just apply all the patches in quilt" is what bugs me. I can't even tell quilt to apply the very first patch.
[01:05] <cosmodad> seems to me like some more preparation work needs to be done before quilt push can work, but I can't find anything.
[01:06] <persia> Hmm.  Let's try automation...
[01:06] <persia> !patch
[01:06] <ubotu> Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
[01:06] <persia> Yep.  See the second link ubotu provided.  Should be some hints on using quilt.
[01:07] <cosmodad> cool, I'll take a look.
[01:29] <cosmodad> persia: ok I'm doing some progress. However, I couldn't resolve the following quilt question yet, maybe you can help me out: how'd I tell quilt that file foo.diff includes a patch file already?
[01:30] <cosmodad> persia: seems to me that quilt's purpose is to filter out diffs by difference between an edited version and the original only.
[01:30] <persia> cosmodad: You'd be better asking generally.  I have to leave now.  I believe you just reuse the current patch as the patch name, but I don't remember precisely.
[01:30] <cosmodad> persia: ok, thanks for helping.
[01:36] <crimsun> cosmodad: you certainly can tell quilt to apply the very first one.
[01:37] <cosmodad> crimsun: what I want is have quilt take the .diff file I have and create a new patch from it.
[01:38] <crimsun> cosmodad: put the patch into debian/patches (or wherever $QUILT_PATCHES is set to), and modify $QUILT_PATCHES/series as appropriate
[01:39] <cosmodad> crimsun: that's it?
[01:39] <crimsun> cosmodad: well, you'll need to test that it applies and builds afterward, but yes.
[01:40] <crimsun> it's that straightforward.
[01:40] <cosmodad> great.
[01:42] <crimsun> cosmodad: I think you'll find the `push' definition in quilt(1) helpful
[01:54] <cosmodad> crimsun: seems to have worked.
[01:56] <cosmodad> crimsun: I'm off, thanks for the assistance.
[01:57] <crimsun> yw
[03:04] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:04] <RAOF> Aloha bddebian.
[03:05] <bddebian> Howdy RAOF
[03:05] <protonchris> Hey bddebian
[03:06] <bddebian> Heya protonchris
[03:07] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[03:08] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock!
[03:47] <LaserJock> anybody familiar with bootcharts around?
[03:47] <bddebian> Not me, sorry
[03:47] <LaserJock> I'm trying to diagnose why my wife's laptop is having issues
[03:47] <LaserJock> booting takes roughly 2.5-3 min
[03:49] <LaserJock> it spends about 80s in readahead
[04:10] <mb2> LaserJock: have you tried doing a profile boot
[04:10] <LaserJock> just did one
[04:10] <mb2> did that help at all?
[04:11] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: where's the chart?
[04:11] <LaserJock> mb2: didn't do anything as far as I can tell
[04:11] <mb2> interesting... had the system ever been profiled before?
[04:12] <LaserJock> nope
[04:12] <LaserJock> it's a fairly fresh install
[04:12] <mb2> you rebooted again after the profile boot right?
[04:13] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:13] <LaserJock> http://laserjock.us/files/gutsy-20080403-2.png
[04:15] <LaserJock> I wonder if perhaps the hard drive is dying but I'm not sure why it would neccesarily make everything slow
[04:20] <jdong> LaserJock: holy mother of jeebus
[04:20] <LaserJock> jdong: what?
[04:20] <jdong> LaserJock: usplash is slurping on your silicon soul!
[04:20] <jdong> LaserJock: it would appear like splash is CPU spinning throughout bootup
[04:21] <jdong> have you tried booting nosplash?
[04:21] <LaserJock> nope
[04:21] <jdong> yeah try removing splash for a bootup and see if that gets any better
[04:21] <jdong> I've seen this bug several release cycles back with AMD64 nvidia
[04:22] <LaserJock> this is i386 ATI, but ...
[04:23] <LaserJock> ok, that's so totally better
[04:24] <jdong> I guess the more interesting question now is, why on earth is usplash misbehaving? :)
[04:24] <LaserJock> haha
[04:24] <LaserJock> it's 40s now
[04:24]  * ajmitch wishes his laptop booted in 40s
[04:24] <LaserJock> that trimed off 145s
[04:24] <StevenK> Does removing splash from the options, or adding nosplash fix it?
[04:24] <jdong> removing splash from options
[04:24] <jdong> nosplash I just made up
[04:25] <jdong> lol
[04:25] <LaserJock> I did nosplah
[04:25] <LaserJock> nosplash
[04:25] <crimsun> they're semantically identical
[04:25] <jdong> what does usplash look for?
[04:26] <LaserJock> http://laserjock.us/files/gutsy-20080403-4.png
[04:26] <LaserJock> that's the new bootchart
[04:27] <LaserJock> this is so weird, I mean all I did was a fresh install of gutsy and the thing is like roasted
[04:28] <LaserJock> now at least it boots fast
[04:29] <nixternal> may I retire please?
[04:29]  * LaserJock fires nixternal
[04:29] <nixternal> sweet jesus, that's just as good!!!
[04:30] <nixternal> our class tonight, we bid for projects for points...so me being the dumb ass I am, bidded on all of the high point projects and got all 10 of them
[04:30] <nixternal> what a dumb ass I am
[04:32] <jdong> :'<,'>s/(>=[^)]*)//g
[04:32]  * jdong whistles....
[04:32] <jdong> brownies for whoever identifies what evil that does :D
[04:33] <StevenK> It's a ed line for vi, firstly
[04:33] <StevenK> It removes the version components in lines containing a ','
[04:33] <jdong> lol guilty as charged :)
[04:34] <LaserJock> hmm, that's pretty good
[04:34] <LaserJock> StevenK's the man
[04:36] <jdong> impressive indeed
[04:37] <ajmitch> nixternal: which means that you have a large amount of work to do?
[04:37] <StevenK> :'<,'s/(>[>=]?[^)]*//g
[04:37] <StevenK> Is probably better, though
[04:39] <nixternal> yo yo
[04:39] <nixternal> ajmitch: a large amount is an understatement
[04:40] <ajmitch> sucker
[04:45] <nixternal> tell me about it
[04:45] <nixternal> that's what I get for being greedy for that 4.0 GPA
[04:45] <ajmitch> extra shots of espresso tonight!
[04:46] <nixternal> no way, I gotta go to bed..gotta wake up in a few hours and get to the free software conference in the city
[04:47] <ajmitch> why bother with sleep?
[04:47] <nixternal> funny, jcastro and I were just talking about not sleeping for Penguicon in a couple of weeks :)
[04:49] <ajmitch> but jcastro is mad
[04:49] <nixternal> true
[04:59] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[04:59] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[05:00] <uniscript> if I install a -dbg pkg, where do I need to put the source so that gdb will find it?
[05:56] <jdong> ScottK2: with regards to the FF3 backport, are you sure you looked at the debdiffs/dscs from post https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bug/191796/comments/25?
[05:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191796 in gutsy-backports "Please backport firefox-3.0 3.0~b4 final" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[05:56] <jdong> err how did I bold that?
[05:57] <ScottK> I think I looked at the last one.
[05:58]  * jdong looks again
[05:58] <jdong> ok, time to do a sanity check on myself
[05:59] <StevenK> "Have I written a unreadable regexp in the last twenty minutes?" 'Check. I'm sane.'
[06:01] <jdong> ScottK2: both patches apply for me against hardy... make sure you used firefox-3.0 and xulrunner-1.9 source packages?
[06:01]  * jdong wonders how much his suggestions sound like "is it plugged in?"
[06:02] <ScottK> I thought I did.
[06:03] <uniscript> gdb question, how do I persuade it to read the symbol table of a particular .so when info share says the symbol table is there but not read?
[06:03] <ScottK> I got a grand total of one hour of sleep on Monday night, so I'm a little fuzzy this week.
[06:03] <jdong> it's been a pretty rough week for me too
[07:07] <LaserJock> StevenK: are promotions done via bug report these days?
[07:10] <StevenK> They are.
[08:17] <dholbach> good morning
[08:23] <geser> good morning dholbach
[08:24] <dholbach> hi geser
[08:26] <\sh> moins
[08:58] <murrayc_> protonchris: Hi. Do you think we might get one more glom version in?
[09:14] <warp10> Good morning
[09:29] <huats> morning
[10:10] <pochu> LucidFox: hi, bug 184084 has an RFS, are you looking into it?
[10:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184084 in checky "Extension description mentions Iceweasel/Icedove/Iceape" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184084
[10:19] <LucidFox> pochu> sure, I'll look into it
[10:23] <pochu> thank you
[11:24] <rod> jono. just mailed you
[11:27] <jono> thanks rod :)
[11:34] <cosmodad> Heya. I have ge-packaged the thunderbird package and added another patch. To reflect this in TB's version, I changed "<IP_ADDRESS>+nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>" to "<IP_ADDRESS>+nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>~mypatch1". Nevertheless, aptitude upgrade wants to revert back to the non-patched package.
[11:35] <cosmodad> how'd I need to version the new package in order for it to be more recent than the old one?
[11:40] <Fujitsu> cosmodad: The entire point of ~ is that it is less than even nothing.
[11:40] <Fujitsu> Perhaps +mypatch1
[11:41] <cosmodad> Fujitsu: at the very end?
[11:41] <Fujitsu> Yes - just change the ~ to a +
[11:41] <cosmodad> Fujitsu: or next to the first +?
[11:42] <james_w> cosmodad: no, at the end
[11:43] <cosmodad> james_w: looks kind of inconsistent to me, having the +nobinonly part followed by the ubuntu-specific version, and then by another +part.
[11:44] <james_w> cosmodad: it doesn't matter
[11:45] <Fujitsu> Putting it after the nobinonly is completely wrong.
[11:45] <cosmodad> ok.
[11:48] <cosmodad> I used to know a bit of (single-lined) shell code which you could use to compare two debian versions, such that you get to know which of them is the higher one.
[11:48] <cosmodad> Anyone remember that?
[11:48] <Lamego> dpkg --compare-versions
[11:49] <cosmodad> Lamego: ah, thanks a lot.
[11:55] <cosmodad> is there a way to change the version and produce new binary packages without going through the hassle of recompilation using cdbs?
[11:56] <james_w> I don't think so
[11:56] <Fujitsu> Is dpkg-buildpackage really too hard to run?
[11:57] <Lamego> cosmodad, debuild -nc
[11:57] <Lamego> assuming you did a previous build
[11:58] <cosmodad> I did
[12:00] <Lamego> -nc stands for no clean
[12:12] <cosmodad> Lamego: I'm using pdebuild and used --debbuildopts -nc to provide the switch, but now I get "dpkg-genchanges: cannot combine -b or -B and -S"
[12:12] <cosmodad> the build process used dpkg-genchanges -b -S
[12:14] <zoli2k> Maybe it is not the right channel but, I am looking for a good bug tracking system for bazaar. Is there any other solution as using Launchpad?
[12:14] <james_w> zoli2k: there is a plugin for trac
[12:14] <james_w> zoli2k: #bzr would be a more appropriate channel
[12:16] <zoli2k> james_w: I checked the trac_bzr, but I am not sure it is stable enough for a production production environment.
[12:16] <zoli2k> I will check the #bzr channel, thx.
[12:23] <Iulian> Hey
[13:02] <pochu> nxvl: hi, I've unsubscribed u-u-s from bug 196778. Should you fix it, I'll sponsor you... so feel free to ping me for it once you're done
[13:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196778 in likewise-open "Provide likewise-open-gui and likewise-open binaries rather than domainjoin-gui and domainjoin-cli" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196778
[13:06] <protonchris> murrayc_: It is definite worth a try.  I'll have time to package it this weekend.
[13:21] <murrayc_> protonchris: Great. I'll do yet another tarball release today.
[13:22] <ScottK2> murrayc_ and protonchris: At this point it's probably easier to package a new revision with a patch for a bugfix than upload a new upstream version if that's feasible.
[13:23] <murrayc_> ScottK2: You can have the diff between versions if you like, but there are about 10 bugs that are fixed. It's easier just to take the tarball.
[13:25] <ScottK2> murrayc_: Makes sense.
[13:26] <ScottK2> I missed the earlier part of the conversation.  For single fixes a patch is simpler/faster right now, but for that, I agree a new tarball is better.
[13:41] <protonchris> ScottK2: thanks for the info.  If you are arround this weekend, I might ask you to sponsor an upload :)
[13:41] <RainCT> hi
[13:42] <protonchris> After I get an FFe of course.
[13:42] <ScottK2> protonchris: I should be around off and on.  No FFe needed if it's just bug fixes.
[13:42] <ScottK2> jdong: Thoughts on Bug #211605?
[13:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211605 in ktorrent-kde4 "new upstream release ktorrent-kde4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211605
[13:42] <protonchris> ScottK2: Great.  Thanks.
[13:43] <jdong> ScottK2: I think it's a good Hardy candidate
[13:44] <ScottK2> jdong: Thanks.
[13:53] <huats> i just went on that bug : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/svn-load/+bug/210754
[13:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210754 in svn-load "apt-get install svn-load fails because of conflicting files" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:54] <huats> what can I do to solve it ? adding a conflict in the control file ?
[13:54] <huats> is it the right way ?
[13:58] <james_w> huats: no, it looks like svn-load is now a part of subversion-helper-scripts
[13:59] <james_w> huats: ah no, I'm wrong
[14:00] <huats> :)
[14:00] <huats> (that was my first feeling too)
[14:02] <james_w> huats: subversion-helper-scripts should be removed from Ubuntu
[14:02] <huats> james_w: any reason ? any url where can I found that ? (i am cuious)
[14:03] <james_w> huats: rmadison -u debian subversion-helper-scripts is a good place to start
[14:05] <huats> james_w: if I understand clearly, the result of your command shows me that it is no longer available in debian ?
[14:05] <james_w> huats: compare with "rmadison -u ubuntu subversion-helper-scripts"
[14:06] <huats> I already did :)
[14:06] <james_w> but yes, sorry for being obtuse, it was removed from Debian a while ago, although I am having trouble finding any evidence it was ever there.
[14:06] <huats> ok
[14:06] <huats> so is there any thing I can do to ask for removal ?
[14:06] <huats> (never did that)
[14:07] <james_w> huats: I don't know exactly, I've never done it myself.
[14:07] <huats> ok
[14:07] <james_w> I think we need a little more information before we do ask for removal.
[14:07] <huats> i think so
[14:08] <huats> I'll try to investigate :)
[14:08] <huats> or may be someone else has an idea ?
[14:08] <james_w> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subversion-helper-scripts
[14:08] <james_w> that says it's been around in Ubuntu for ever
[14:08] <james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subversion-helper-scripts/+bug/149677
[14:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149677 in svn-load "svn package conflict [hardy, gutsy]" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[14:09] <james_w> you should mark your bug as a duplicate of that.
[14:09] <huats> I did already
[14:12] <james_w> great
[14:15] <\sh> anyone using lighttpd there?
[14:15] <james_w> huats: I can't find the record of it being removed from Debian
[14:16] <huats> hum, weird
[14:18] <james_w> yep
[14:18] <james_w> maybe it wasn't synced from Debian, but the changelog says "unstable"
[14:18] <huats> yep
[14:21] <james_w> ok, can anyone tell us how to request a package removal?
[14:22] <slytherin> james_w: whcih package?
[14:23] <james_w> slytherin: subversion-helper-scripts
[14:24] <slytherin> james_w: ideally you should file a bug. But why do you want it removed?
[14:25] <james_w> slytherin: it's gone from Debian, it conflicts with svn-load-dirs, has only had one update
[14:25] <james_w> and it appears to just be thin wrappers around svn and svnadmin
[14:25] <slytherin> james_w: gone when and why?
[14:25] <slytherin> james_w: add that info to bug report. :-)
[14:26] <james_w> slytherin: that's the problem, I can't find it in removals.txt and google seems to know nothing about it ever being in Debian.
[14:26] <james_w> you missed all the discussion unfortunately.
[14:27] <huats> james_w: may be we can just put a conflict between the 2 packages...
[14:27] <james_w> Is there a record of where a package was synced from?
[14:28] <huats> james_w: don't seem to find one...
[14:35] <ScottK> For a package that old, it's unlikely you'll find it.
[14:37] <\sh> ScottK, we should have references...even when it was coming from this apt-get.org website...
[14:37] <ScottK> \sh: I agree, but where would it be.  Launchpad didn't even exist yet at that point, did it?
[14:38] <\sh> nope...
[14:38] <\sh> ScottK, but some archive-admin could have some old lists ;)
[14:38] <\sh> asking pitti :)
[14:38] <ScottK> Maybe.  OTOH, if it hasn't been touched in years the odds of killing it hurting anything are small.
[14:39]  * ScottK would say ask via the removal bug.
[14:39] <\sh> well, the fun part:
[14:39] <\sh>     *   Removed from disk  on 2006-05-04.
[14:39] <\sh>     * Removal requested on 2006-05-04.
[14:39] <\sh>     * Superseded on 2006-02-04 by subversion-helper-scripts - 0.5-2
[14:39] <\sh>     * Published on 2005-12-21
[14:40] <huats> on the other side like I say since the beginning : since it is conflicting file with another package, why not simply add a conflict between the 2 packages ? since they are both providing the same functionality....
[14:41] <james_w> huats: no, I don't think they are
[14:41] <\sh> what about this: http://www1.apt-get.org/search.php?query=subversion-helper-scripts&submit=Submit+Query&arch[]=i386&arch[]=all
[14:41] <\sh> output is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6466/
[14:42] <ScottK> Then it should definitely die.
[14:42] <\sh> bah...I'm old...
[14:42] <james_w> subversion-helper-scripts' svn-load is just a wrapper around "svnadmin load". svn-load-dirs is a replacement for some non-free script that was in subversion package for a while IIRC.
[14:42] <james_w> \sh: thanks
[14:42] <huats> james_w: ok... my mistake
[14:43] <\sh> james_w, np :)
[14:43] <huats> thanks \sh and ScottK too...
[14:44] <james_w> so shall I submit a removal request for sponsorship?
[14:44] <ScottK> My vote is yes.
[14:44] <\sh> james_w, file it...
[14:44] <ScottK> But I'm generally a fan of removals.
[14:44] <james_w> I can convert an existing bug?
[14:45] <james_w> Do I need to follow a format for the title like ftp.d.o ones?
[14:45] <ScottK> Yes.
[14:45] <ScottK> No.  Just provide the needed information.
[14:45] <james_w> great, thanks.
[14:45] <\sh> guys...even when I'm not a fan of trance music :) but you should listen to Acid Reflux from Jamendo.com (CC music)
[14:45] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:45] <white> anyone knows a reason other than hardware problem, why my realtek network card would not show up under lspci at all, althgouh it did show up yesterday
[14:46] <white> but then it had the problem that it timed out after 10 min
[14:46] <\sh> white, I'm guessing: "Sudden Death" ,->
[14:46] <\sh> hey bddebian
[14:46] <\sh> it happens sometimes to realtek nics
[14:46] <white> \sh: hi :)
[14:46] <white> \sh: well that was not quite the answer i wanted to hear :)
[14:47] <ScottK> james_w: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Removal is where the needed information used to live.  Unfortunately it's been moved to I don't know where.
[14:47] <\sh> white, how old?
[14:47] <white> 1-2 years
[14:47] <white> \sh: if another device would steal the memory space, the card would still show up under lspci, right?
[14:47] <\sh> white, ok...two possibilities: 1. your card died or 2. your mainboard has problems with at least one pci slot
[14:48] <\sh> white, yes...
[14:48] <\sh> white, the latter one happened to me in the past...but that was my agp port on a gigabyte board
[14:48] <crimsun> I'd start by looking through dmesg logs.
[14:49] <ScottK> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Removal was made into a redirect to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Removals which no longer exists as part of your wiki reoganization.  Would you please undeprecate the page or repoint the forward to where the information now is.
[14:49] <white> the story is quite interesting, my laptop was broken and i send it in to acer under warranty. They replaced and most likely changed some hardware in there and when i start up the laptop, i get told that there is a conflict on a pci slot
[14:49] <white> i mean they should have seen that when they repaired it
[14:49] <bddebian> Hi \sh
[14:49] <\sh> oh ...laptop
[14:50] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#head-6a4a4d2ad0cc004c6199f465539e3bbc2239291e
[14:50] <\sh> -ENEVERBUYACER ,-)
[14:50] <james_w> ScottK, dholbach: ^
[14:50] <white> acer travelmate 5514wlmi
[14:50] <white> \sh: ACK
[14:50] <dholbach> james_w: thanks
[14:51] <\sh> white, I have a desktop from them...cheapware from saturn ... I'll never buy such a thing again..I'll pay more the next time
[14:52] <white> \sh: well i do not have thre equipment here in my room to open it now and i either suspect that they screwed the slots up or the card is just dead
[14:52] <dholbach> ScottK: done
[14:52] <white> either way, i have to wait for my thinkpad to arrive next week, i guess
[14:52] <white> wasn't sure, if there was anything else i could have tried on the software side, but neither lspci nor iomem shows the code of the device at all
[14:54] <crimsun> does the bios enumerate it?
[14:57] <white> nope
[14:58] <white> the bios does not give anything, as far as i can see :/
[15:08] <james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/link-monitor-applet/+bug/185318 is on the hardy milestone list and is in universe, does anyone fancy fixing it?
[15:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185318 in link-monitor-applet "link-monitor-applet dependency problems" [Medium,Confirmed]
[15:11] <\sh> james_w, there should eb a new package in debian
[15:12] <\sh> regarding the comments
[15:12] <james_w> \sh: I'm aware of that, I was just suggesting it would be a suitable task for someone.
[15:13] <\sh> preparing a FFe :)
[15:13] <\sh> and then following up for sync eventually
[15:14] <james_w> yeah, hopefully it will be quite straightforward.
[15:14] <\sh> I'm subscribed now for that bug...if I find the time this evening I'll think I can deal with it
[15:14]  * \sh has still some other bugs to take care of
[15:15] <\sh> anywys...weekend time now :) cu later from home
[15:15] <james_w> I can take it later if no-one else gets to it, I was just hoping that mentioning it would have someone jump at the chance.
[15:15] <james_w> bye \sh.
[15:56] <stani> ScottK: How will you handle the SPE fixes?
[15:56] <pochu> stani: he already uploaded it
[15:56] <pochu>  spe (0.8.4.e-1ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
[15:56] <pochu>  .
[15:56] <pochu>    * Add 01pycheck-list.dpatch from spe svn to fix crash (LP: #201069)
[15:56] <pochu> if that's what you are referring to ;)
[15:57] <ScottK> stani: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/spe/0.8.4.e-1ubuntu1
[15:57] <stani> ok, I've been fixing some more bugs on the upstream bug tracker
[15:58] <ScottK> stani: Please attach patches to the bugs.  Unified diff is better (diff -ruN)
[15:58] <stani> but I don't know if it is possible they still get uploaded as well (maybe as SPE 0.8.4.f)
[15:58] <ScottK> Possible.
[15:58] <stani> ScottK: but the bugs are on berlios, not on launchpad
[15:58] <ScottK> I see
[15:59] <ScottK> stani: How many bugs?
[15:59] <stani> 5 bugs or so
[15:59] <ScottK> At this point I think we should limit changes to significant bugs.
[16:00] <ScottK> I'd say if you've got patches for bugs that aren't in LP, file a bug that essentially says please add the following patches to fix ....
[16:00] <ScottK> pochu or I will take it from there.
[16:01] <pochu> or release 0.8.4.f and make our lives easier :)
[16:01] <stani> and my life too
[16:01] <pochu> (if it's strictly bug-fix only, of course)
[16:01] <stani> yes only bug fixing
[16:01] <ScottK> pochu: If we go that route, I want to upload direct to Ubuntu right now.  I want to leave dpatch in the package so we'll have it for SRUs if we need it.
[16:02] <ScottK> That'll work too.
[16:02] <jcastro> hi pochu
[16:02] <pochu> hey jcastro
[16:02] <pochu> ScottK: fine for me
[16:02] <jcastro> pochu: can you pick a time/date for your python packaging on the wiki so I can write an announcement up?
[16:02] <stani> ok
[16:03] <stani> pochu: feel free to contact me about it for brainstorming or whatever help you need
[16:03] <stani> pochu: I mean about open week
[16:03] <pochu> jcastro: Thu 31st Apr at 18 or 19 UTC... if I knew whether I'm UTC+1 or +2... :)
[16:03] <pochu> stani: thanks :)
[16:03] <pochu> stani: what are we right now, +1 or +2?
[16:04] <pochu> DST confuses me :)
[16:04] <ScottK> Someone who cares about Tex might want to look into Bug 131239
[16:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131239 in tex4ht "sync request" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131239
[16:04] <pochu> jcastro: looks like I'm +2... so 18:00 UTC on Thursday WFM
[16:05] <stani> pochu: I am in amsterdam (so I think +1)
[16:05] <pochu> stani: is it 17:05 there?
[16:05] <stani> yep
[16:05] <pochu> then +2 :)
[16:05] <stani> pochu: where are you?
[16:05] <mok0> ScottK: What do you need more to grant FFe?
[16:06] <ScottK> mok0: The usual stuff.
[16:06] <pochu> stani: Spain
[16:06] <mok0> ScottK: I'll give it a look, during the weekend
[16:08] <LaserJock> is there any possible way we can get a "this absolutely needs to be done before release" list?
[16:08] <ScottK> LaserJock: In theory it's the list of milestoned stuff.
[16:08] <pochu> LaserJock: milestone it for ubuntu-8.04 :)
[16:09] <mok0> aScottK: If you unsubscribe release-team, I'll resubscribe when I'm done with it
[16:09] <mok0> ScottK: ^
[16:09] <ScottK> Will do.
[16:09] <LaserJock> ScottK: are we actually using the milestone?
[16:09] <ScottK> LaserJock: I know the RM is looking at it.
[16:09] <LaserJock> as in, maybe we need to announce and properly use the milestone
[16:09] <ScottK> Dunno how complete it is.
[16:11] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04
[16:11] <LaserJock> I'm feeling overwhelmed by lots of trivial stuff while it seems at times important things are falling through the cracks
[16:11] <LaserJock> ScottK: yes, I'm aware of where the milestones are ;-)
[16:12] <LaserJock> but I am unaware of MOTU actually ever using it in a cohesive or coordinated way
[16:12] <ScottK> I find Launchpad confusing enough that I never assume people know how to find stuff.
[16:12] <LaserJock> good point
[16:12] <jcastro> pochu: do you think an hour is enough for your session?
[16:12] <ScottK> Personally I do use it for stuff that I think really needs to get done.
[16:12] <jcastro> pochu: I figured if we're going to try to get upstream participation that it would suck if we ran out of time
[16:13] <ScottK> I agree that we don't use it cohesively.
[16:14] <pochu> jcastro: hmm, I haven't thought about that... do you think we should do a two hours session?
[16:14] <pochu> I could probably run one in one hour, making it simple enough
[16:15] <jcastro> pochu: I was just thinking about that.
[16:15] <pochu> jcastro: hmm, perhaps we can put it at 21UTC and in case we need more time, we take it :)
[16:16] <jcastro> that sounds good
[16:16] <jcastro> or we can move people to an #ubuntu-python after your hour too
[16:17] <pochu> jcastro: 21 works for me too, so I think that would be better
[16:17] <jcastro> ok
[16:17] <pochu> thanks
[16:17] <jcastro> give me 45 minutes for the wiki to update. :D
[16:18] <stani> I didn't know there was an ubuntu-python room.
[16:19] <pochu> I don't think there is one :)
[16:20] <stani> I think for the logging it would be better to do it at the end 21UTC
[16:20] <jcastro> stani: yeah I was just recommending that if people wanted to continue to ask questions we could just lump them in a temporary channel while the rest of the classroom sessions went on
[16:20] <jcastro> but 2100+ is fine too
[16:21] <stani> jcastro: ok, so let's put it on 2100+
[17:11] <ScottK> mok0: I can't remember if I asked you this before, but I was wondering if you'd take a look at Bug 66862
[17:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 66862 in python-numpy "scipy not built with atlas support ?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66862
[17:12] <proppy> ScottK: thanks for accepting my membership in ~pythonistas
[17:13] <ScottK> proppy: You're welcome.  I just recently got that ability.
[17:15] <proppy> leaving ubuntu-gnomemm
[17:46] <stani> ScottK: What is pythonistas?
[17:46] <ScottK> It's a Launchpad team for looking after Python packages in Universe.
[17:47] <ScottK> Mostly it just gets you bugmail.
[17:47] <stani> Would it be interesting for me to be a member as well?
[17:50] <ScottK> If you're interested in trying to triage/fix bugs in packages that are written in Python, then yes.
[17:50] <ScottK> stani: ^^
[17:51] <proppy> stani: I just received bugmail from you
[17:51] <proppy> stani: I thought you were already a member :)
[17:51] <ScottK> proppy: You'll get a lot more now that you're in the team.
[17:51] <stani> proppy: yes, I am trying to fix now all bugs on launchpad of spe
[17:52] <ScottK> stani: If you interest is limited to spe, then it shouldn't be necessary to join.  If you are interested in getting more broadly involved in Ubuntu and fixing/packaging Python stuff, then I'd be glad to add you.
[17:54] <stani> ScottK: Ok, maybe I don't need to be a member now. Feel free to bother me if you some wxpython applications have bugs. That I know quite well.
[17:54] <ScottK> stani: As a rule, we'd like to limit asking people to install stuff from outside the packaging system.  Maybe you could upload svn snapshots for testing to a PPA instead of asking people to directly pull from your SVN.
[17:54] <ScottK> stani: Will do.
[17:55] <ScottK> stani: We could help you with getting the versioning right so that your svn snapshot would then automatically get replaced by the official package once it's uploaded.
[17:56] <stani> I am not an expert on packaging (that's why I'd like to see that python-packaging session). I've never setup a PPA before.
[18:00] <pochu> stani: I have a PPA, I could explain how to use it if you are interested and/or upload a snapshot of spe to mine
[18:01] <stani> pochu: That would be great, but we have to do it another time as I have to leave soon for dinner.
[18:05] <stani> Scottk & pochu: I think I fixed all linux related bugs on berlios and launchpad in subversion. So I plan to do a .8.4.f release tomorrow. (There are still some Windows bugs left, which I can't reproduce, but I feel to lazy to start Windows.)
[18:06] <ScottK> stani: Great.
[18:07] <pochu> stani: cool, ping me whenever you want and I help you setting a ppa and learning the basis (which are really simple)
[18:31] <effie_jayx> hey guys... what gpg server should I send my keys?
[18:31] <effie_jayx> sorry for the offtopic there
[18:31] <james_w> effie_jayx: there is an ubuntu one.
[18:32] <james_w> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
[19:19] <tbf> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to .git/objects/09/2b690e4a38923bb7acacad90bcd1c4738e8d58: binary file contents changed
[19:19] <tbf> is it possible to tell dpkg-buildpackage to ignore certain files?
[19:20] <persia> tbf: I believe you want -i (although that may be for debuild, which is fewer characters than dpkg-buildpackage, but otherwise similar)
[19:22] <tbf> persia: hmm... usually i also use debuild - easier to remember
[19:22]  * tbf reads the man page of debuild again, to find out the difference between both tools
[19:22] <tbf> (was told to use dpkg-buildpackage for this stuff)
[19:23] <LaserJock> I just don't include revision control files in my source packages
[19:23] <LaserJock> but you don't always get to control that kind of stuff
[19:24] <persia> When I use revision control, I tend to take an export to build.
[19:24] <LaserJock> exactly
[19:26] <tbf> persia, LaserJock: i added the git repo by myself to prevent getting nuts with manual patch management and such. don't own the package just want to fix some stuff. don't ask, the scenario is slightly nuts
[19:26] <tbf> persia, LaserJock: but exporting sounds good
[19:32] <olopez> hi
[19:33] <olopez> Here i can make a questions about ubuntu packages?
[19:37] <ScottK> About packaging and bug fixes, yes.  For support questions, no.
[19:38] <olopez> ok
[19:40] <olopez> I have question about package of intel pro wireless firmware , i don`t accept any license agregament of intel when i install ubuntu and my wifi is working , it is ubuntu using a freeversion of this firmware , in freebsd for example i need to accept a lincense agregament
[19:43] <james_w> olopez: are you using Hardy?
[19:44] <olopez> yes Hardy Heron
[19:45] <james_w> olopez: it uses the iwl driver, which is a free replacement for the ipw drivers, or whatever it was called.
[19:45] <LaserJock> although I don't think ipw didn't ask you about the license
[19:46] <LaserJock> often times distros will ask people to agree to a license agreement even though it's not necessary
[19:46] <olopez> ok ,great i don't know it :D
[19:46] <LaserJock> it's often just to inform users about the license
[19:46] <olopez> LaserJock: but i think that is good see the license agreement if it has it
[19:47] <LaserJock> olopez: but you don't do that on every package do you? :-)
[19:47] <olopez> usually user don`t read it but ...
[19:47] <LaserJock> Do you agree to the GPL? to the LGPL? to the MIT?
[19:47] <sistpoty> hi folks
[19:47] <LaserJock> we don't do that because it's irrelevent to the user
[19:47] <olopez> LaserJock: usually i read the license
[19:47]  * sistpoty agrees to the must pet a chinchilla license :)
[19:47] <LaserJock> olopez: of every package you install?
[19:49] <olopez> i read it allways at least the type of license , i need know if it is free and how license generate this freedom
[19:50] <RainCT> olopez: btw, you can see what non-free packages you have installed by running 'vrms', and basically looking from which component you are downloading the package
[19:50] <olopez> but i undertand that ubuntu a lot of times is for a beginers users and you don`t need see licences agregaments all time , but you can accept more important licenses on installation time
[19:50] <LaserJock> olopez: you couldn't possibly have read every license for every package on your computer
[19:51] <LaserJock> or at least, that would be a looooong time
[19:52] <LaserJock> in Ubuntu we pretty much just make the user agree to license agreements when they have to Sun Java for instance
[19:53] <olopez> LaserJock: i don't read GPL or MPL license every time that i install GPL or MPL package but i think that could be interesting to read it before you install for frist time you distro and get adverts about non free packages
[19:54] <LaserJock> right
[19:54] <olopez> it is only a sugestion ;)
[19:54] <LaserJock> but you're talking about at least looking at a couple thousand licenses
[19:54] <LaserJock> just when you install the OS
[19:54] <sistpoty> well, very often you can read the gpl in an about box of a gpl-d program
[19:55] <LaserJock> olopez: you choose free or non-free by the repos you enable
[19:55] <LaserJock> beyond that I don't think there's much of a point for the vast majority of people
[19:57] <LaserJock> olopez: I'm not criticising you I just can't imagine how long it would take to read all that :-)
[19:57] <LaserJock> even just to see what the license is
[19:57] <sistpoty> oh, nice... I just looked out of interest from this discussion. looks like the caspe source package is missing the full gpl... slangasek? ;)
[19:58] <sistpoty> casper even
[19:58] <slangasek> huhwha?
[19:58] <olopez> LaserJock: yes but it could be a posibility on the instalation time , with the base packages
[19:58] <LaserJock> olopez: how do you mean?
[19:58] <sistpoty> slangasek: just thought I'd tell an archive admin... but of course I can file a bug if you want ;)
[19:58] <LaserJock> olopez: what would be possible?
[19:58] <slangasek> sistpoty: bug please
[19:59] <sistpoty> kk
[19:59] <slangasek> sistpoty: particularly as we probably want to fix this by having someone upload casper, rather than removing it from the archive ;)
[19:59] <LaserJock> sistpoty: casper needs full GPL?
[20:00] <sistpoty> LaserJock: it says it's gpl
[20:00] <LaserJock> oh wait, I know what you mean
[20:00] <sistpoty> slangasek: good point :P
[20:00] <LaserJock> I thought you were saying full GPL in debian/copyright
[20:00] <olopez> LaserJock: an option to read L.A,  if you want do it before instalation , at least licences of the base install
[20:01] <LaserJock> olopez: but that would be probably many hundreds of licenses at least
[20:01] <LaserJock> well
[20:01] <LaserJock> I think there is some distinction between a License and a License Agreement, isn't there?
[20:02] <RainCT> olopez: "less /usr/share/doc/*/copyright"
[20:02] <RainCT> ah
[20:04] <LaserJock> I don't think there are any License Agreements for the base install in the sense of "Do you agree to this license, yes or no?"
[20:05] <LaserJock> maybe I'm mistaken though and a LA is just the License.
[20:07] <olopez> RainCT: ;) is better cd /usr/share/doc/;  for i in $(ls -1); do less  /usr/share/doc/$i/copyright; done;  ;)
[20:07] <LaserJock> but by installing th software you aren't agreeing to anything (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would be called an LA
[20:07] <RainCT> olopez: true, but there you have your option to see all licenses :P
[20:08] <olopez> mm i have to leave irc , nice conversation see u all
[20:14] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not too sure, but I guess someone could interpret installing the software as "using" it (where you'd need to agree with the gpl). At least the final setup will definitely start programs, so it falls under "using"
[20:16] <sistpoty> LaserJock: oh, at least GPL-2 doesn't seem to say anything about usage, so forget it
[20:31] <sistpoty> jdong: around? might want to take a look at FFe bug #211910 ?
[20:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211910 in rtorrent "[FFe] request for new upstream version " [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211910
[20:32] <jdong> sistpoty: looks good to me, having a lightweight client that supports DHT will be good for Hardy
[20:32] <sistpoty> jdong: ok, thanks!
[20:38] <sistpoty> DktrKranz2: some testing for rtorrent would be nice... can you add results to the bug report please?
[20:40] <sebner> sistpoty: ha. And I always think newbies like me make such mistakes
[20:40] <sistpoty> heh
[20:41] <rzr> wtf http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://www.jabbin.com/
[20:54] <sistpoty> ScottK: /me still giggles about universe-code-monkeys... if it had been before April 1st, I'd been doing a REVU - bananas release... collect two bananas and your upload may enter the archive *g*
[20:54] <ScottK> Absolutely.
[20:54] <sistpoty> 15 bananas, and you're a MOTU *g*
[20:54] <ScottK> sistpoty: What do you think about my reply?  On target?
[20:55] <sistpoty> ScottK: imho yes... but I must admit I haven't thought too much about the whole thing yet
[20:55] <sistpoty> (I didn't know I may print business cards with an ubuntu logo btw.)
[20:56] <ScottK> Fair enough.
[20:56] <ScottK> sistpoty: As a MOTU Council member emeritus, I think people will be interested to hear what you have to say on it.
[20:57] <sistpoty> ScottK: ok, I'll take a closer look later (I'm still drafting the mail about finalrelease, and need to fix some hw first :/)
[20:58] <ScottK> No problem.
[21:00] <sistpoty> ScottK: imho you're right with writing to not mix up membership and other tasks, but imho it might be useful to grant these in the same procedure... otherwise I guess we might create too much levels of steps to go through to becoming a motu
[21:00] <sistpoty> ScottK: so s.th. like applying for $whateveritiscalled$ which has the side effect that MC will grant membership as well
[21:01] <ScottK> It's not that I object so much to have additional benifits, but let's walk before we run.
[21:01] <sistpoty> good point
[21:03] <sistpoty> ok, need to reboot now to plug in a hard disk... bbl
[21:10] <LaserJock> ScottK: do we want to limit the "significant and sustained" to Universe/Multiverse?
[21:12] <ScottK> LaserJock: I think we have to.  Otherwise it's not the MC they should be going to for membership.
[21:12] <LaserJock> ScottK: in your email you said "Ubuntu"
[21:12] <ScottK> Oh.
[21:12] <LaserJock> I'm saying do we want to further that  to "Universe and Multiverse"?
[21:12] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:12] <ScottK> My mistake.
[21:12] <LaserJock> np, just wanted to be clear
[21:12] <ScottK> I'll follow-up.  I meant to have that in there.
[21:13] <ScottK> I understand there's a lot of controversy in the CC about who can do membership and we should be careful not to step on toes.
[21:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: btw, there are a lot of complications with the "extra permissions" bits
[21:13] <LaserJock> I wouldn't worry too much about it
[21:14] <LaserJock> but yes, one step at a time
[21:14] <LaserJock> We can't give them release nomination powers yet
[21:14] <Syntux> Hi, I'm trying to build a deb for a package that doesn't have a .dsc
[21:14] <LaserJock> all we can do is to make them a member of ~ubuntu-bugcontrol so the can flip Importance and set Won't Fix
[21:15] <LaserJock> Syntux: do you have the rest of the source package?
[21:15] <Syntux> LaserJock, yes
[21:15] <ScottK> Which is a good start, but let's get the basic thing in place first.
[21:15] <LaserJock> Syntux: orig.tar.gz and diff.gz?
[21:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: definately agreed
[21:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: the limitation is that LP can only handle one team per permission
[21:16] <Syntux> LaserJock, oh hmm well, I don't know what you are talking about :D the idea is that I wanted to learn about packaging so I could contribute so I picked a package that we don't have it in ubuntu repos for learning purpose http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=146506&use_mirror=dfn&filename=dictconv-0.2.tar.bz2&59646642
[21:16] <LaserJock> so we can't grant ~ubuntu-dev and ~universe-hackers both release nomnation permission for instance
[21:16] <ScottK> If ubuntu-dev is in hackers, then it's fine.
[21:16] <LaserJock> Syntux: oh, I see. You are starting from scratch
[21:17]  * ScottK recalls his opnions on LP aren't credible and goes back to work.
[21:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: right, which I'm against doing ..
[21:17] <LaserJock> but whatever :-)
[21:17] <Syntux> LaserJock, yup
[21:17] <ScottK> Fair enough.
[21:17] <ScottK> All the more reason to not worry about it in the first instantiation of the policy.
[21:17] <sistpoty> re
[21:17] <LaserJock> Syntux: well, then firstly there is a difference between a source tarball and a source package
[21:18] <LaserJock> Syntux: the source tarball is what you download from the software authors, usually a tar.gz or tar.bz2
[21:18] <Syntux> LaserJock, ok, that one is tar.bz2
[21:19] <LaserJock> Syntux: a source package is made up of that tarball, which we name .orig.tar.gz so that it's clear that it is the original source
[21:19] <LaserJock> then there is a diff.gz which is a compressed diff file that holds all the packaging information
[21:19] <Syntux> LaserJock, aha and where to get that one from? and is it possible to create one if the author didn't include it ?
[21:20] <LaserJock> the .dsc file is a description file that tells about the package (name, version, etc.) and the other files of the source package
[21:20] <LaserJock> Syntux: that's exactly what you have to do, create one
[21:20] <LaserJock> Syntux: that's the job of the packager
[21:20] <Syntux> LaserJock, great, How to do so?
[21:20] <LaserJock> but, first things first
[21:20] <LaserJock> we need to make sure one doesn't already exist in Ubuntu or Debian
[21:21] <Syntux> LaserJock, yeah I'm aware of that point and actually dictconv doesn't exists in both.
[21:21] <Syntux> which is a good start
[21:21] <LaserJock> we also need to check that it's not presently being worked on
[21:22] <Syntux> LaserJock, well, that's another story that highly depends on my ability of knowing the unknown and I'm noob at black magic.
[21:23] <LaserJock> Syntux: no problemo
[21:23] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
[21:23] <Syntux> LaserJock, I mean, if it was clear on the author and/or package website that someone is doing so then it's meaningless to repeat the work, so of course I will avoid that when possible but is there any other way to know if someone is working on it in feasible manner?
[21:24] <LaserJock> Syntux: the URL I just gave is a search of all Ubuntu bugs that have the "needs-packaging" tag
[21:24] <Syntux> ok, assuming I picked one and it didn't have a orig.tar.gz and the diff one what should I do ?
[21:24] <LaserJock> those are the "please packaging .." bugs
[21:24] <LaserJock> ok, well
[21:25] <LaserJock> if you have some patience it's a good idea to read the Packaging Guide
[21:25] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[21:25] <Syntux> LaserJock, dude, I'm already there and I have read it but there is nothing about creating the orig and diff
[21:26] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:26] <LaserJock> I guess you might have misunderstood then
[21:26] <Syntux> maybe
[21:26] <LaserJock> if you've read it then the specific answer is debuild or dpkg-buildpackage creates the diff
[21:27] <norsetto> hello
[21:27] <LaserJock> because the original tarball is a .bz2 it's good to convert it to a tar.gz
[21:27] <Syntux> debuild -S would create the diff is origi.tar is present
[21:27] <LaserJock> exactly
[21:27] <sistpoty> oh Syntux: are you a member of bugsquad? If so, I guess there could be some RFP's in debian, which might be worth to be added as bug task
[21:27] <LaserJock> Syntux: it also make the .dsc
[21:28] <Syntux> ahaaaaaa
[21:28] <Syntux> I got you now :D
[21:28] <Syntux> I was assuming the origi.tar is something should be inside the extracted package :D
[21:28]  * Syntux hides.
[21:28] <LaserJock> Syntux: what you want to do to convert the .bz2 to .orig.tar.gz is to bunzip2 and then gzip -9 the result
[21:29] <LaserJock> name it to <packagename>-<version>.orig.tar.gz
[21:29] <Syntux> sistpoty, no I'm not.
[21:29] <Syntux> siretart, but trying to be a packager, it's useful thing
[21:30] <no0tic> jdong, hi, I saw you commented on FFe about {r,lib}torrent, upstream devs say it's unstable, but I use it on a daily basis since few month without a problem
[21:30] <sistpoty> no0tic: oh, can you add that to the bug please?
[21:30] <sistpoty> no0tic: did you spot any regressions to the version that's in hardy?
[21:31] <no0tic> sistpoty, no
[21:31] <sistpoty> no0tic: can you also add this to the bug please? thanks a lot!
[21:31] <no0tic> sistpoty, everything is working smoothly
[21:31] <sistpoty> great!
[21:32] <Syntux> LaserJock, Ok, I got that orig.tar.gz nwo
[21:33] <no0tic> sistpoty, I saw that someone already stressed the fact that is unstable.. I think upstream dev will consider 1.0 as stable so...
[21:34] <sistpoty> no0tic: oh, just saw it in my mail, thanks... that was norsetto ;)
[21:34] <norsetto> the bugger ...
[21:34] <sistpoty> hey norsetto, how's the going?
[21:35] <LaserJock> Syntux: to start working you can unpack that tarball
[21:35] <norsetto> sistpoty: smooth as silk ;-)
[21:35] <sistpoty> heh
[21:35] <LaserJock> Syntux: and all the packaging "stuff" goes in the debian/ directory in there (which you will create)
[21:35] <LaserJock> Syntux: one way to do that is to install dh-make
[21:35] <Syntux> there is no .dsc file
[21:35] <LaserJock> Syntux: no, not yet
[21:36] <LaserJock> just untar it
[21:36] <Syntux> okie done
[21:37] <LaserJock> if you have dh-make installed you can run it from in the directory
[21:37] <LaserJock> and it will ask you some questions, and then spit out a templated debian/ directory
[21:38] <Syntux> shall I use the simplified version of dh-make ?
[21:38] <LaserJock> not exactly sure what you mean
[21:38] <LaserJock> are you asking if you should use dh-make?
[21:39] <Syntux> rules*  the simplified rules created by dh-make as mentioned in PackagingGuide
[21:40] <LaserJock> well, I was just saying there that it is easier to use dh-make than writing the whole thing from scratch
[21:41] <Syntux> LaserJock, hmm sorry for ignorant and sorry for the following silly question, I got dh-make-perl/php and pecl but no dh-make alone
[21:41] <sistpoty> nonetheless, writing from scratch can be very enlightening, too (of course dh-make will probably lead you faster to a working package)
[21:41] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:42] <LaserJock> Syntux: you don't see a package called just dh-make?
[21:43] <Syntux> aptitude why dh-make - The package "dh-make" is manually installed.
[21:43] <Syntux> whereis dh-make - dh-make:
[21:44] <Syntux> and of course dh-make is already the newest version
[21:44] <Syntux> but yet it's not there
[21:44] <LaserJock> well, of course that's because it's call dh_make
[21:45] <LaserJock> obviously ;-)
[21:45] <Syntux> dude, LOL you kept saying dh-make LOL
[21:45] <LaserJock> yeah yeah
[21:45] <LaserJock> I had to install it to figure it out
[21:45] <LaserJock> it's been a while
[21:46] <Syntux> well, this is the first time for me to see a command with underscore
[21:46] <LaserJock> heh, you'll see a lot more of those
[21:46] <Syntux> Ok, what type of package is it ? a single binary?
[21:46] <LaserJock> I would assume so
[21:47] <LaserJock> multiple binaries are for packages that are big/complex/modular
[21:47] <LaserJock> where you get more than one .deb for the source package
[21:47] <LaserJock> *from
[21:48] <Syntux> I see
[21:48] <LaserJock> it's easy to convert later if you need to
[21:48] <Syntux> Ok, debian created
[21:49] <LaserJock> awesome
[21:49] <LaserJock> now you can go in there and have a look around
[21:49] <LaserJock> the .ex files are example files for various tasks
[21:49] <LaserJock> you probably won't need them
[21:50] <LaserJock> Syntux: the thing to keep in mind with using dh_make is that it is a rough template
[21:50] <LaserJock> Syntux: so you still need to make sure things are filled in right
[21:50] <Syntux> yeah so in serious packages I should pay attention and edit them
[21:50] <LaserJock> the biggest issue is in debian/rules
[21:51] <LaserJock> there dh_make is often just plain not right
[21:51] <LaserJock> so don't assume it will just work
[21:51] <LaserJock> but it might
[21:52] <Syntux> cool
[21:52] <Syntux> and next?
[21:53] <Syntux> sorry for being so demanding but I feel hungry for packing :D
[21:53] <LaserJock> well, once you got things filled out
[21:53] <LaserJock> and remove the .ex files you don't need
[21:53] <LaserJock> you can build a source package
[21:53] <LaserJock> by running debuild -S
[21:54] <Syntux> gpg error hmm
[21:55] <LaserJock> Syntux: do you have a gpg key?
[21:55] <Syntux> do I have to export my key?
[21:55] <Syntux> sure
[21:55] <LaserJock> ok
[21:55] <LaserJock> couple things to look at or bear in mind
[21:56] <LaserJock> 1) your name and email address in the debian/changelog file must exactly match the one in the gpg key
[21:56] <LaserJock> 2) you can set the env variables DEBEMAIL ad DEBFULLNAME as well
[21:57] <LaserJock> sometimes the signing program has a hard time finding keys
[21:57] <LaserJock> you can tell it to use a specific key by doing debuild -S -k<your key ID>
[22:01] <Syntux> wow, I forgot my passphrase :D
[22:02] <Syntux> ok, done
[22:02] <Syntux> signed.
[22:03] <LaserJock> so when you go back up to where your .orig.tar.gz is you'll see the other files
[22:03] <Syntux> now dpkg-source -x *.dsc?
[22:03] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, TheMuso, Hobbsee: first draft of mail regarding finalfreeze, can you check please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/62150/
[22:03] <LaserJock> Syntux: right now  you have the equivalent of that
[22:03] <ScottK> sistpoty: Looking
[22:03] <LaserJock> Syntux: dpkg-source -x *.dsc unpacks the .orig.tar.gz and applies the diff from .diff.gz
[22:03] <Syntux> so I can proceed with the packaging guide now
[22:03] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, TheMuso, Hobbsee: also, I think some delegation (e.g. asac -> FF stuff) worked out quite well, should we do this for final freeze as well=
[22:03] <sistpoty> ?
[22:04] <LaserJock> Syntux: sure, you just made your first source package
[22:04] <Syntux> wow :D Thank you dude
[22:06] <LaserJock> the next task is to build a .deb out of it :-)
[22:07] <norsetto> sistpoty: ack :-)
[22:08] <sistpoty> norsetto: ack for the mail or for delegating powers? ;)
[22:08] <ScottK> sistpoty: My only comment would be to add fixing minor typographical errors to the list of stuff you shouldn't do.
[22:08] <sistpoty> ScottK: ok, will add that
[22:08] <norsetto> sistpoty: both
[22:08] <sistpoty> ok :)
[22:08] <Syntux> wow! I got a .deb now
[22:09] <LaserJock> Syntux: how'd you do it?
[22:09] <Syntux> :D
[22:09] <norsetto> sistpoty, scottk: just to let you know, I won't be there to help from the 9th to the 15th
[22:10] <LaserJock> Syntux: did you use debuild or pbuilder?
[22:10] <Syntux> LaserJock, now tell me, how can I test the package installation ? I mean if it will work on other machines or not
[22:10] <sistpoty> norsetto: :(
[22:10] <Syntux> LaserJock, debuild, is there any differences?
[22:10] <LaserJock> Syntux: oh yes
[22:10] <norsetto> sistpoty: no, no, :-)
[22:11] <sistpoty> heh
[22:11] <LaserJock> Syntux: using debuild is not encouraged if you are building the .deb for anything but personal use really
[22:11] <LaserJock> Syntux: not that it's evil or anything
[22:11] <Syntux> yeah I know, nothing personal :p
[22:11] <LaserJock> but it relies on you having all the build dependencies installed
[22:12] <LaserJock> and it's easy for you to miss a dependency and building using debuild won't catch that
[22:12] <ScottK> sistpoty: I'm good with delegation for asac and also for the derivatives up until the last 24 hours.  The final 24 hours I think everything should be ack'ed as sometimes RM wants the buildd's kept clear.
[22:12] <Syntux> true
[22:12] <Syntux> Ok, shall I rebuild it again with pbuilder?
[22:12] <LaserJock> pbuilder provides a "clean" environment
[22:12] <LaserJock> it however takes more in initial setup to get pbuilder going
[22:12] <LaserJock> because it create a minimal Ubuntu system
[22:13] <sistpoty> ScottK: agreed
[22:13] <LaserJock> Syntux: I would suggest it, especially if you want to contribute your packages to Ubuntu
[22:13] <Syntux> LaserJock, sure, I will go with it but pbuilder build ../*.dsc aint working
[22:13] <asac> ScottK: sistpoty: i think the main exception the mozillateam needs is for extensions in universe
[22:14] <asac> ScottK: sistpoty: i hope to have the last in by mid of next week (in time for hard freeze)
[22:14] <LaserJock> Syntux: you have to install it first
[22:14] <LaserJock> Syntux: and then do a pbuilder create
[22:14] <LaserJock> to create the pbuilder
[22:14] <sistpoty> asac: does it have one in main? and would you be willing to deal with mozilla stuff?
[22:14] <Syntux> already have it
[22:14] <asac> ScottK: sistpoty: everything else that i can think of in universe would only be security updates. but i don't think that there will be anything before hardy
[22:14] <sistpoty> asac: then you could simply reject all exceptions :P
[22:14] <asac> sistpoty: sure. feel free to delegate approvals to me
[22:15] <sistpoty> :)
[22:15] <asac> sistpoty: but please prod me if you do so
[22:15] <Syntux> aha, awesome pbuilder create does lots of serious work
[22:15] <asac> i am currently working hard and cannot really stay on top of all my email
[22:16] <sistpoty> asac: heh, sure
[22:16] <LaserJock> Syntux: it creates the minimal Ubuntu system and then compresses it
[22:16] <LaserJock> Syntux: when you build a .deb it then uncompresses it and build the package
[22:16] <Syntux> LaserJock, then maybe I should do the packaging on my home server rather than my laptop
[22:16] <LaserJock> installing the dependencies you specify in debian/control
[22:17] <LaserJock> Syntux: do you have limited space?
[22:17] <Syntux> LaserJock, and it will build the minimal ubuntu system with every package I build?
[22:17] <LaserJock> not build it
[22:17] <LaserJock> just uncompress it
[22:17] <LaserJock> into a temporary directory
[22:17] <Syntux> so it's just once? and the next package will use same system?
[22:17] <LaserJock> yep
[22:17] <Syntux> I got around 4gb available
[22:18] <LaserJock> it doesn't save the changes that you make each build
[22:18] <LaserJock> so that you get the same environment each time
[22:18] <LaserJock> but the base is always there
[22:18] <LaserJock> a pbuilder typically takes ~ 100MB when it's compressed
[22:18] <LaserJock> of course when it's building it uses up more
[22:19] <LaserJock> in the temp build directory
[22:19] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, Hobbsee, TheMuso: what do you think of making jdong responsible for file-sharing related stuff? (in case you agree to this, jdong)
[22:21] <sistpoty> oh, what derivatives do we have
[22:21] <sistpoty> ?
[22:21] <sistpoty> (I've got kubuntu, gnome-desktop stuff, ubuntustudio so far)
[22:21] <Syntux> LaserJock, cool, it's working now
[22:22] <ScottK> sistpoty: mythbuntu
[22:22] <LaserJock> Syntux: before you asked how to test it. the easiest thing is to just dpkg -i the .deb
[22:23] <ScottK> sistpoty: Ubuntu Muslim Edition has some packaging in the repositories now.  I don't know if they'll be a factor or not.
[22:23] <LaserJock> Syntux: but first you might want to run dpkg -c to see the contents of the .deb and see if it's what you expected
[22:23] <ScottK> sistpoty: xubuntu too.
[22:23] <sistpoty> ah, right
[22:23] <ScottK> sistpoty: Kubuntu is in Main, so not our concern.
[22:23] <LaserJock> Syntux: there is also a program called lintian that checks .dsc and .deb files for common mistakes and policy violations
[22:23] <sistpoty> ScottK: not kde4 stuff
[22:23] <ScottK> sistpoty: I take that back.  Kubuntu KDE4 is universe
[22:23] <ScottK> Yes
[22:24] <sistpoty> ScottK: thought if you think we have enough knowledge (you, Hobbsee) in motu-release, I'll drop that one
[22:24] <Syntux> LaserJock, Ok and how can I check if my package is Ok to be uploaded to Ubuntu repository ?
[22:25] <ScottK> sistpoty: I haven't touched kde4.  All my Kubuntu stuff this cycle has been in kde3 or the related python-qt/kde* packages.
[22:25] <sistpoty> ok
[22:25] <LaserJock> well, if it works and lintian doesn't complain too much, you should upload it to REVU
[22:25] <LaserJock> let me send you some links here ;-)
[22:25] <Syntux> LaserJock, please do
[22:26] <LaserJock> !revu > Syntux
[22:26] <LaserJock> !packaging > Syntux
[22:26] <LaserJock> not sure if that last one is right
[22:26] <LaserJock> !packaging
[22:26] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[22:27] <LaserJock> ah yeah, the NewPackages link is what I was after
[22:27] <Syntux> !backports Syntux
[22:27] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, Hobbsee, TheMuso: how do we want to deal with FinalRelease debdiffs? Imho one ack should be sufficient, otherwise I fear that we might cause bottlenecks
[22:28] <ScottK> sistpoty: I think so.
[22:28] <Syntux> LaserJock, isn't there a script that automate this packaging processes?
[22:28] <LaserJock> not particularly
[22:29] <LaserJock> packaging is very much an art
[22:29] <LaserJock> ;-)
[22:29] <Syntux> then we should write an artistic script :D
[22:29] <LaserJock> what I've shown you is just one of several ways you could have done it
[22:30] <LaserJock> in fact, for almost each step there are at least 3 different tools you could have used
[22:31] <Syntux> LaserJock, btw the way you explained it was way better than the PackagingGuide, if I were you I'd edit that page with a cleaner steps :-)
[22:31] <norsetto> sistpoty, ScottK: well, I still like the idea of asking for a further confirmation (like: I'm fine with it but I would like to have another team meber to check this)
[22:31] <LaserJock> Syntux: heh, well I wrote it
[22:32] <Syntux> LOL
[22:32] <Syntux> LaserJock, :D
[22:32] <LaserJock> Syntux: it's a very complicated thing subject to teach
[22:32] <LaserJock> much easier on IRC
[22:32] <Syntux> LaserJock, are you Daniel ?
[22:32] <LaserJock> no
[22:32] <LaserJock> Daniel Holbach is one of our leaders
[22:32] <LaserJock> he "wikified" the Packaging Guide
[22:32] <LaserJock> my original was a book
[22:32] <sistpoty> norsetto: well, I guess I would like to do this for some exceptions, but not for all. Maybe we could only do this if not 100% sure?
[22:33] <norsetto> sistpoty: indeed
[22:33] <LaserJock> well, long pamphlet maybe, but you could get a hard-copy
[22:33] <Syntux> ok pbuild is done what next?
[22:34] <sistpoty> norsetto: then needing only one ack, would solve the issue of no response (e.g. "anyone objects to this" and two days later no response -> you can confirm it)
[22:34] <norsetto> sistpoty: right
[22:38] <ScottK> norsetto: I think if someone has doubts, asking is fine, but we don't want to cause bottlenecks.
[22:39] <Syntux> LaserJock, :-)
[22:42] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, TheMuso, Hobbsee: next draft: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/62163/
[22:43] <sistpoty> oh, slangasek: maybe you'd like to take a look at the draft as well ^^
[22:43] <LaserJock> Syntux: sorry, I gotta help the boss in the lab
[22:43] <LaserJock> Syntux: I'm gonna be gone for a bit
[22:43] <LaserJock> good luck
[22:43] <ScottK> sistpoty: I think IRC acks followed by a bug should be OK too.
[22:43] <Syntux> LaserJock, yeah sure :-) take your time
[22:44] <sistpoty> ScottK: right, I'll try to put that in the mail as well
[22:44] <sistpoty> (just out for a smoke)
[22:44] <Syntux> guys, last thing I did with LaserJock was sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc  what next?
[22:48] <slangasek> sistpoty: requiring bugs filed for each upload during the freeze? Sounds like no fun for you... :)
[22:49] <ScottK> sistpoty: This is a good point.  I think an IRC ack should be enough.
[22:49] <ScottK> Channels are logged, so we can reconstruct blame if needed.
[22:50] <sistpoty> hm... ok, /me tries to redo it
[22:53] <sistpoty> slangasek, ScottK: hm... I'm unsure, how would ubuntu-archive then sort out the ack'd exceptions from the not ack'd ones=
[22:53] <sistpoty> ?
[22:53] <ScottK> sistpoty: RM uses IRC too.
[22:53] <sistpoty> ok
[22:57] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto, Hobbsee, TheMuso: next try: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/62174/
[22:59] <ScottK> sistpoty: cody-somerville for Xubuntu and Riddell for Kubuntu
[22:59] <ScottK> Looks good.
[23:00] <ScottK> sistpoty: TheMuso for Ubuntu Studio
[23:00] <ScottK> sistpoty: superm1 for Mythbuntu.
[23:00] <sistpoty> ScottK: I'd like to get confirmation from them first (about to ask riddel)
[23:01] <ScottK> OK.  Those are my recommendations.
[23:01] <ScottK> For Gnome, I don't know.
[23:02] <sebner> gn8 folks
[23:02] <sistpoty> gn8 sebner
[23:03] <sistpoty> superm1: around? would you like to deal with mythbuntu freeze exceptions for universe once final freeze is starting?
[23:04] <sistpoty> cody-somerville: same question for you, but s/mythbuntu/xubuntu/ ?
[23:05] <mario_limonciell> sistpoty, i'm at work, so not here as 'superm1', but yeah i'll take care of them
[23:05] <mario_limonciell> that's no problem
[23:05] <sistpoty> mario_limonciell: excellent, thanks!
[23:10] <sistpoty> ScottK: ubuntu-desktop for gnome, ok? (norsetto, Hobbsee, TheMuso)
[23:11] <norsetto> sistpoty: I always thought seb128 was in charge
[23:11] <sistpoty> norsetto: I've just talked to him, he suggested to use ubuntu-desktop
[23:11] <norsetto> sistpoty: ok then
[23:12] <cody-somerville> Whats the question?
[23:12] <sistpoty> cody-somerville: would you like to grant exceptions for universe packages during final freeze regarding xubuntu?
[23:12] <cody-somerville> sistpoty, yes.
[23:12] <sistpoty> cody-somerville: excellent, thanks!
[23:14] <ScottK> sistpoty: Find with me.
[23:15] <sistpoty> ScottK: ok, TheMuso doesn't seem to make too much sense imho, as he's a member of motu-release anyways... should I drop ubuntu-studio or find s.o. else?
[23:16] <ScottK> Dunno.  I'd say list him as he's who I'd pick and the best qualified
[23:16] <ScottK> Or see who he'd suggest.
[23:16] <sistpoty> ok
[23:19] <sistpoty> ScottK, TheMuso, norsetto, Hobbsee: final try: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/62177/
[23:20] <ScottK> sistpoty: +1
[23:22] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: How do translations matter? We're universe, so we don't get LP translations.
[23:25] <norsetto> sistpoty: go for it or you will spend the whole night here ....
[23:26] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:27] <jdong>  /sb end
[23:27] <jdong> no0tic: *blinks* where did I say it was unstable?
[23:29] <no0tic> jdong, no, you didn't, norsetto did
[23:29] <jdong> no0tic: ok whew you had me worried there for a sec!
[23:29] <no0tic> jdong, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rtorrent/+bug/211910/comments/11
[23:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211910 in rtorrent "[FFe] request for new upstream version " [Wishlist,New]
[23:45] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: they're clobbering the debdiff and make reviewing harder
[23:45] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Good point.
[23:47]  * slangasek peers at the 100% ABI-changing upload of libaqbanking
[23:48] <slangasek> ah, this is gwenhywfar's fault?
[23:49] <sistpoty> slangasek: anything wrong with it? (as I take mainly responsability for the approval)
[23:50] <slangasek> sistpoty: it was just noteworthy to see 10 new packages showing up on the NBS list, and was wondering if someone had gone rogue or if there was a good reason for it. Evidently, there was a good reason for it. :)
[23:51] <sistpoty> slangasek: yes... even if it comes with the caveat to not being able to build gnucash with HBCI any longer, but I hope -backports might change the from what I read in debian BTS
[23:51] <sistpoty> (which cannot be done in the archive anyways)
[23:51] <slangasek> is gnucash going to need a reupload for the change?
[23:52] <sistpoty> slangasek: no, it doesn't build-depend on libaqbanking, since it lacks the openssl exception
[23:52] <sistpoty> (or s.th. like that, but it's not affected)
[23:52] <sistpoty> (only for users rebuilding it ignoring the ssl-exception *g*)
[23:52] <slangasek> ah
[23:55] <cody-somerville> sistpoty, You forgot Xubuntu in the e-mail
[23:55] <sistpoty> cody-somerville: damn, I new I forgot s.th.... sorry, I'll reply to myself then ;)
[23:55] <cody-somerville> thanks
[23:57] <slangasek> sistpoty: also, Riddell with two 'd's ;)
[23:58] <sistpoty> slangasek: that's what you get when you rely on reviewers :P
[23:59] <slangasek> sistpoty: you only asked me if I'd like to take a look at it, not proofread it :D
[23:59] <sistpoty> (iow, tab completion didn't work there *g*)
[23:59] <sistpoty> heh


[00:52] <iheartubuntu> erichammond - thats exactly how Ubuntu has been for me. Ive done all sorts of tweaks and customizations the first few years, now the past year or so im going all vanilla install and just trying to use whats given to me
[00:53] <iheartubuntu> empathy instead of pidgin, etc
[02:53] <nightmorph> almost time to head out to the meetup
[02:54] <pleia2> have fun :)
[02:55] <nightmorph> who all's goin'?
[02:57] <erichammond> Has empathy gotten better since Lucid?  I tried it there and switched back to pidgin.
[03:14] <iheartubuntu> erichammond - i really like empathy a lot
[03:14] <iheartubuntu> i now like it better than pidgin
[03:14] <iheartubuntu> the Natty version of empathy has some upgempathyrades to the 10.10
[03:15]  * crashsystems has a new camera :D
[03:15] <iheartubuntu> the Natty version of empathy has some upgrades to the 10.10 empathy
[03:15] <iheartubuntu> what kind of camera??
[03:15] <crashsystems> Canon 60D, with a 24-70mm 2.8/L lense
[03:16] <iheartubuntu> i want a DSLR badly
[03:16] <crashsystems> This is my second, the first being about 100 years ago (or so it seems)
[03:16] <iheartubuntu> 18MP? jeez
[03:16] <iheartubuntu> my trusty kodak fake dslr is only 5mp
[03:17] <crashsystems> you don't really need more than 5 in most cases, though its nice to have
[03:17] <iheartubuntu> ive been looking at costco lately... they have some bundle deals
[03:18] <crashsystems> I was given the following advice from multiple sources: spend more on your lens than on your camera.
[03:18] <iheartubuntu> the new natty emapthy has easy to use sliders next to each account to turn them off or on
[03:18] <iheartubuntu> plus emapthy does IRC pretty good too
[03:18] <crashsystems> btw has irc gotten any better in empathy since 10.04?
[03:18] <crashsystems> hah
[03:19] <iheartubuntu> i dont know about 10.04, but 10.10 and 11.04 are pretty similar
[03:19] <crashsystems> so, it does basic IRC commands and such?
[03:20] <iheartubuntu> yes, for sure
[03:20] <iheartubuntu> IRC password, etc
[03:20] <crashsystems> I may switch back then
[03:23] <iheartubuntu> i like empathys feature of "people nearby"
[03:24] <iheartubuntu> using it at a university, i can see other users who have mac . i cant send them messages though. dont know if they can see me
[03:25] <crashsystems> IIRC that is bonjure
[03:29] <iheartubuntu> erichammond i am not a fan of all the key commands in natty so switched to ubuntu classic mode
[03:31] <crashsystems> iheartubuntu: btw you can change any unity shortcut key you want
[03:32] <iheartubuntu> i did that for a  time before natty with compiz. i just like having my desktops down in the bottom right panel and mouse clicking to each dektop, sure is easier than having to do extra key commands and then mouse clicking
[03:34] <iheartubuntu> maybe im getting old and not into things changing :)
[03:35] <iheartubuntu> i knew it was all downhill when baseball players birthdates got younger than mine
[03:36] <crashsystems> lol
[03:49] <ubuuser> okay, is anyone actually at starbucks for the meetup?
[03:51] <pleia2> philipballew should be there at least (he's the organizer)
[03:51] <ubuuser> or am i sitting here...all alone....
[03:51] <pleia2> ubuuser: are you nightmorph?
[03:51] <ubuuser> aye
[03:52] <ubuuser> just arrived. yay for free wifi.
[03:53] <pleia2> emailing philip now
[03:54] <ubuuser> it's prolly the 3 dudes at the next table over. but there are lots of tables, and everyone's got their machines out. for all i know it was cancelled, and i'm the only ubuntunerd here
[03:55] <pleia2> nah, philip just sent the announcement out yesterday :)
[03:55] <pleia2> in a perfect world someone would be wearing an ubuntu tshirt of have linux stickers on their laptop
[03:55] <pleia2> s/of/or
[03:56] <akk> We didn't do that too well the first couple times in Mountain View.
[03:56] <akk> Now we know to make it a lot clearer.
[03:56] <akk> (I was wearing an ubuntu shirt, but who can tell with a sweater and jacket over it? :)
[03:56] <pleia2> hehe
[03:56] <ubuuser> ah
[03:57] <akk> It's easier in summer!
[03:58] <pleia2> doh
[04:00] <iheartubuntu> the San Diego Ubuntu Hour is at a diff lcation I think than the one from the week before
[04:01] <iheartubuntu> there was one in downtown, and now i think todays UH was at a diff location
[04:01] <iheartubuntu> lemme check
[04:03] <iheartubuntu> which location are you at ubuuser? panera bread or starbucks?
[04:03] <pleia2> he left
[04:03] <pleia2> he said he was at starbucks
[04:04] <pleia2> hopefully he found them :)
[04:05] <iheartubuntu> the ubu users IP didnt give me much info
[04:07] <iheartubuntu> how is the weather in SF pleia2
[04:08] <pleia2> gloomy
[04:08] <iheartubuntu> my app was not accepted this time around for the UDS. just got the email today. always next time!
[04:08] <pleia2> yeah, and next time it's in Orlando so no 10 hour flight ;)
[04:08] <iheartubuntu> initially i was put onto the backup team
[04:08] <pleia2> ah
[04:09] <iheartubuntu> i need to scurry and find somewhere to take my wife for her bday in may :)
[04:10] <iheartubuntu> im thinking quebec city
[04:10] <iheartubuntu> anyone been there?
[04:10] <iheartubuntu> looks interesting. a french walled city up on a hill
[04:10] <iheartubuntu> by a river
[04:14] <pleia2> canada?
[04:15] <iheartubuntu> yah
[04:15] <iheartubuntu> its french :) without going to france
[04:15]  * iheartubuntu is lazy
[04:15] <pleia2> lol
[04:15] <iheartubuntu> philip said he found the guy
[04:15] <pleia2> yay!
[04:15] <pleia2> where did he say?
[04:16] <iheartubuntu> where?
[04:16] <pleia2> did you email him?
[04:16] <iheartubuntu> tweet
[04:16] <pleia2> oh, good :)
[04:17] <iheartubuntu> philip replies to tweets immediately. faster than when i email him anyhow
[04:17] <pleia2> good to know
[04:17] <iheartubuntu> actually i probably would too since i get tweet alerts on my phone
[04:18]  * iheartubuntu wishes he had android tho
[04:18]  * pleia2 never hears her phone
[04:20] <iheartubuntu> is the unity in 10.10 the same as in natty?
[04:21] <crashsystems> no
[04:22] <iheartubuntu> so i wouldnt get the same xperience then
[04:22] <crashsystems> nope
[04:22] <crashsystems> for natty unity was rewritten as a compiz plugin
[04:23] <crashsystems> 11.04 unity is much, much better than 10.10 unity
[04:23] <iheartubuntu> i thought this was interesting...
[04:23] <iheartubuntu> U.S. companies cut their work forces in the U.S. by 2.9 million during the 2000s while increasing employment overseas by 2.4 million
[04:24] <iheartubuntu> http://www.businessinsider.com/big-2011-4
[04:31] <iheartubuntu> library closing. need to pack up.
[04:31] <iheartubuntu> Viszlát mindenki! (hungarian for "goodbye everyone")
[04:32] <iheartubuntu> pleia2 - r u attending budapest?
[04:32] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: yep
[04:32] <pleia2> working with the hungarian loco now to plan some night tourism
[04:32] <iheartubuntu> the google translate app does voice translations now :) very nice
[04:32] <pleia2> cool
[04:33] <iheartubuntu> what would be super helpful is taking a camera shot of a sign and having it translate the text
[05:43] <nightmorph> of course my ip didn't give you much info -- i was at the starbucks wifi point
[05:44] <nightmorph> pleia2: yeah, it turned out it WAS the three geeky dudes right beside me. we had a good time. lookin' forward to next month's meet.
[17:13] <iheartubuntu> i normally use googles "reader" to read my rss feeds. is there any non web readers people like? i know evolution & thunderbird have readers
[17:15] <akk> I couldn't find one, so I wrote my own.
[17:16] <akk> All the prefab ones I found were either web or email based, and I needed something to gather static pages so I could read them offline.
[17:19] <iheartubuntu> do you have a ppa? :)
[17:21] <akk> No, it's just a python script ... I suppose some day I should figure out how to package these individual python scripts, but it seems like a lot of extra work.
[17:21] <akk> http://shallowsky.com/software/feedme/
[17:23] <iheartubuntu> akk, whats your middle name? "awesome"?
[17:24] <iheartubuntu> you didnt like liferea
[17:27] <akk> I wasn't actually looking for a desktop reader (looks like that's what liferea is); just an aggregator/downloader since I read on a mobile device.
[17:27] <akk> (then I had to write a mobile reader too, when I switched from palm to android)
[17:41] <jamalta> morning
[17:41] <pleia2> morning
[17:41] <jamalta> how's it going? :)
[17:41] <pleia2> good good
[17:42] <jamalta> oh cool, ubuntu hour is tonight
[17:42] <jamalta> i'll have to see if i can make it in time.. i have an appointment before that
[17:50] <pleia2> nhaines: yay, I see your blog is hitting the planet again!
[17:53] <kdub> our ubuntu hour went pretty good yesterday
[17:53] <kdub> 2 new people
[17:54] <akk> \o/
[17:54] <pleia2> nice :)
[17:55] <kdub> we found the person who was on irc asking where everyone was
[17:57] <iheartubuntu> so where was he? next table over?
[17:57] <iheartubuntu> :)
[17:59] <kdub> yea
[19:36] <nhaines> pleia2: yes, they claimed not to find anything wrong but they did check it out.  :)
[20:10] <iheartubuntu> has anyone using Natty updated within thel ast hour or two and it asking to remove Empathy?
[20:12] <aaditya> Natty nuked Empathy? yay.
[21:03] <jamalta> What would they push on us instead of Empathy?
[21:27] <akk> Maybe it was just a botched dependency? That happens sometimes in big updates.
[21:37] <iheartubuntu> empathy?
[21:38] <iheartubuntu> it asked me to do a partial upgrade and i noticed it wanted to remove empathy
[21:38] <iheartubuntu> ahhh what the heck... i updated anyways :)
[21:38] <iheartubuntu> i notice the new empathy 3.x.x is available in the reps but it wont let me install it
[21:38]  * iheartubuntu is back using pidgin for now
[21:43] <iheartubuntu> i think i will try a reboot
[22:13] <nhaines> A reboot won't change anything.  It's a broken dependancy in the repos.
[22:14] <akk> oh, didn't even occur to me the reboot was connected to the dependency issue. :)
[22:18] <nhaines> akk: there's a lot of non-sequitur conclusions in this channel when it comes to support.  :(
[22:18] <akk> Indeed, nhaines. You're probably right, just didn't occur to me.
[22:20] <nhaines> akk: on the other hand, I have been auditing tech calls and emails all day, so maybe I'm just being cynical.  :)
[22:20] <akk> That probably means you're being more realistic. :)
[22:21] <nhaines> Possibly.  :)