[04:18] <bluesabre> elfy: uploaded a new abiword from debian into -staging... if you want to check it out tomorrow and see if things work any better for you
[12:37] <brainwash> elfy: hey, do you think it would help to activate descriptions in whisker menu? this way every launcher would display its Comment= parameter
[12:38] <brainwash> would also solve bug 1396804
[12:39] <brainwash> or are the additional comments an annoyance for the average user?
[12:40] <brainwash> comments/descriptions
[12:50] <knome> they are very random and eat up a lot of space. it'd also mean we'd use larger icons. those are few of the reasons they are hidden
[12:52] <brainwash> they do add some bloat. I've enabled the descriptions and after some time I did not mind the extra text anymore
[12:52] <brainwash> larger icons are always nice :)
[13:16] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, elfy, abiword 3.0.1 looks good from here.
[13:19] <knome> brainwash, subjective...
[13:20] <brainwash> knome: it is. just trying to figure out what's best for the average user
[13:20] <knome> well for the bug you mentioned, i don't think adding the descriptions would be what the OP wanted... just a workaround
[13:21] <knome> it should be fixed in some other way (maybe a different icon or sth)
[13:22] <brainwash> he wants to distinguish the two launchers, and by making the description visible he will be able to
[13:22] <knome> brainwash, sure... but if he doesn't want to show the descriptions, then it's just a workaround
[13:23] <knome> and i can empathise that very much, it's a problem with the .desktop files, not the configuration
[13:23] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: did you have any issues with the prior version?
[13:25] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, I was the one who found the bug. By running the testcase :)
[13:25] <brainwash> knome: but we cannot rename the desktop files
[13:26] <knome> brainwash, "cannot" is a bit wrong, but i understand what you are saying... we can probably use another icon for the settings though
[13:26] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, and yes, the bug was still there just prior to running your update this morning.
[13:28] <brainwash> knome: another icon.. yeah, this could work
[13:29] <brainwash> knome: basically a folder icon with a little cog wheel
[13:30] <knome> yep
[13:31] <brainwash> this new icon would also show up in the settings manager, but that's fine I guess
[13:31] <brainwash> so we could forward this change upstream
[13:31] <knome> yes, that's fair
[13:32] <brainwash> in case such an icon already exists (freedesktop standard)
[13:32] <brainwash> I assume so
[13:33] <knome> or we can draw one
[13:33] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: great!
[13:41] <jjfrv8> elfy, for tracking purposes, which do you prefer: editing the existing testcase result and changing it from Failed to Passed, or creating a new one with an appropriate comment?
[15:05] <elfy> jjfrv8: related to what? package or ...
[15:08] <jjfrv8> elfy, the package testcases
[15:09] <elfy> be best to just report again I would think
[15:09] <elfy> is this abiword?
[15:10] <jjfrv8> yes, and that's what I did. Re-ran the testcase and filed a new result.
[15:10] <elfy> awesome - thanks jjfrv8 :)
[15:10] <jjfrv8> welcome
[15:18] <knome> bbl


[07:41] <wrtp> fwereade: mornin'
[08:04] <TheMue> Good morning, Go-ers.
[08:25] <wrtp> TheMue: hey!
[08:26] <wrtp> TheMue: i seem to have problems branching the new juju-core project... is there anything i should know?
[08:26] <TheMue> wrtp: Ah, here he is. HAd a nice time with the Queen?
[08:26] <wrtp> TheMue: she was lovely thanks. she sends fond regards.
[08:27] <TheMue> wrtp: Oh, thank you. Send her my best wishes when you're next time in for a cup of tea. *lol*
[08:27] <wrtp> % bzr branch lp:juju-core/trunk juju-core
[08:27] <wrtp> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "Cannot create 'trunk'. Only Bazaar branches are allowed."
[08:27] <wrtp> wtf?
[08:28] <TheMue> wrtp: Did not tried it yet, just started and updated the VM.
[08:28] <TheMue> wrtp: Will try now and see what I get.
[08:28] <wrtp> TheMue: cool, thanks
[08:33] <TheMue> wrtp: Simple solution, just remove /trunk.
[08:33] <wrtp> TheMue: remove /trunk from where?
[08:33] <TheMue> wrtp: It's bzr branch lp:juju-core <<your dir name>>
[08:33] <wrtp> TheMue: ah. that's odd, because every other project uses /trunk...
[08:34] <TheMue> wrtp: ;)
[08:35] <TheMue> wrtp: Even with bzr? Trunk as a dir I know from svn. But e.g. not in Mercurial based projects.
[08:35] <wrtp> TheMue: yeah. for example goamz and gozk
[08:35] <wrtp> TheMue: ha ha. it doesn't work with cobzr!
[08:37] <TheMue> wrtp: I'm using plain bzr and switch/rename directories
[08:38] <wrtp> TheMue: yeah. tbh, i think it's perhaps an oversight that niemeyer's not using lp:juju-core/trunk
[08:38] <wrtp> TheMue: hmm, he *is* using /trunk: https://code.launchpad.net/~gophers/juju-core/trunk
[08:41] <wrtp> TheMue: hmm, this worked ok: bzr  branch https://code.launchpad.net/~gophers/juju-core/trunk juju-core
[08:41] <wrtp> TheMue: which is all i needed
[08:42] <TheMue> wrtp: I think the command above leads to the same result.
[08:42] <TheMue> wrtp: See "Get this branch:" on the web site.
[08:42] <wrtp> TheMue: evidently it doesn't, because bzr branch lp:juju-core/trunk failed...
[08:43] <TheMue> wrtp: There's written "bzr branch lp:juju-core"
[08:43] <TheMue> wrtp: Nothing about a "/trunk".
[08:44] <wrtp> TheMue: yeah, but that *should* be the same as bzr branch lp:juju-core/trunk
[08:44] <wrtp> TheMue: which is what i've been using for all the other projects.
[08:44] <wrtp> TheMue: (including juju itself)
[08:44] <wrtp> (the python version)
[08:45] <TheMue> wrtp: Maybe, here I'm not deep enough in the bazaar conventions.
[08:46] <wrtp> TheMue: neither me :-)
[08:46] <TheMue> wrtp: I even don't see a reason for appending trunk.
[08:46] <wrtp> TheMue: it's just what gustavo told me to do ages ago...
[08:46] <TheMue> wrtp: What would it be good for?
[08:46] <wrtp> TheMue: all launchpad branches are of the form lp:project/branch
[08:51] <TheMue> wrtp: OK, so the URI maybe may contain a branch but when no branch is defined the trunk is taken.
[08:51] <wrtp> TheMue: yup
[10:21] <TheMue> Oh, family forces me to a second breakfast on the veranda. Brb.
[10:57] <wrtp> TheMue: i feel your pain :-)
[11:16] <TheMue> wrtp: The pain starts when returning back to the computer.
[11:24] <Aram> morning.
[11:28] <TheMue> Hi Aram
[11:28] <hazmat> wrtp, bzr branch lp:juju-core
[11:29] <wrtp> hazmat: why doesn't bzr branch lp:juju-core/trunk work like it does for other projects?
[11:29] <wrtp> hazmat: seems a bit odd
[11:29] <wrtp> Aram: hiya
[11:32] <hazmat> wrtp, because there is no 'trunk' series defined
[11:32] <hazmat> wrtp, it looks like gustavo named it 'juju'
[11:33] <hazmat> which is odd
[11:33] <hazmat> so instead of 'trunk' you have bzr branch lp:juju-core/juju
[11:34] <wrtp> hazmat: i agree that's odd. it's also odd, given that,  that this link works: https://code.launchpad.net/~gophers/juju-core/trunk
[11:34] <hazmat> wrtp, right.. the actual branch is trunk (off the gophers group).. but the lp alias derives off  the series
[11:35] <hazmat> changing the name of the series would fix that
[11:35] <hazmat> at https://launchpad.net/juju-core/juju
[11:35] <hazmat> i'll wait to niemeyer is around though
[11:35] <wrtp> hazmat: yeah, he usually has a good reason for this kind of thing
[11:37] <wrtp> hazmat: 'juju-core juju series [...] The "trunk" series represents [...] '
[11:42] <hazmat> wrtp, i rather doubt there's a reason to it
[11:42] <hazmat> well perhaps to hold the series as separate project containers
[11:58] <hazmat> wrtp, the reason niemeyer rejected the proposals is so people could create new ones against the juju-core project
[11:58] <wrtp> hazmat: i have no problem with that
[11:58] <hazmat> https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/manage/linux/
[11:59] <hazmat> wrtp, just noticed you had put an existing back into 'wip'
[11:59] <wrtp> hazmat: oh, that was unintentional - i tried to do lbox propose -for lp:juju-core, but it found the old proposal
[12:00] <hazmat> wrtp, no worries.. try the bzr merge --remember lp:juju-core thing first
[12:00] <wrtp> hazmat: the WIP was so that i didn't make an actual proposal, but had the side effect, i see, of unrejecting it
[12:00] <wrtp> hazmat: i'm branching from trunk then merging back into that, then proposing that
[12:00] <hazmat> wrtp, lbox inspects the bzr info command to determine the submit/push branch
[12:01] <wrtp> hazmat: which i hope should work
[12:05] <wrtp> hazmat: new proposal https://codereview.appspot.com/6300060 (which is quite a nice number)
[12:31] <TheMue> wrtp: First impression is good, but it's a deeper change and I've got to see where other parts of the still to port state code has to adopt those changes.
[12:34] <wrtp> TheMue: submitted, i'm afraid. consensus has it that there shouldn't be a particular problem with it...
[12:35] <TheMue> wrtp: Thought it's a proposal.
[12:35] <wrtp> TheMue: it was proposed a week ago, and LGTM'd by gustavo
[12:36] <wrtp> TheMue: see https://codereview.appspot.com/6247066/
[12:36] <TheMue> wrtp: OK, only wondered because you wrote "new proposal".
[12:36] <wrtp> TheMue: it's only new because it had to be created anew for juju-core
[12:36] <TheMue> wrtp: Ah, understand.
[12:38] <Aram> today is a national holiday here, I think I'll be around mostly, though.
[12:52] <wrtp> Aram: seems fairly quiet today...
[12:53] <TheMue> In Germany some of the federal states have public holiday too, we don't. So they drive into our towns to go shopping. ;)
[12:54] <Aram> yeah, when it's a public holiday it's terrible, everything is closed.
[12:54] <Aram> we have one single generic shop opened in a 2M people city.
[12:54] <Aram> and even that shop is not non stop.
[12:55] <Aram> back in Romania I had 3 non-stop shops on my street, heh.
[13:00] <Aram> btw, did you guys see the transit of venus yesterday?
[13:03] <TheMue> Aram: No, too early, will look at it next time. *lol*
[13:04] <Aram> lol.
[13:09] <wrtp> hazmat: does remove-unit ever terminate a machine?
[13:09] <hazmat> wrtp, no
[13:09] <hazmat> wrtp, the machine is still allocated, and can be used for new units
[13:10] <hazmat> wrtp, its a big bogus atm though
[13:10] <hazmat> because we don't isolate the units from the root fs
[13:10] <wrtp> hazmat: i was thinking about dave cheney's problem with the provisioning agent.
[13:10] <hazmat> so they'll have pre-existing state on them
[13:10] <wrtp> hazmat: i see
[13:10] <hazmat> terminate-machine will kill an unused machine
[13:10]  * hazmat checks for dave's email
[13:11] <wrtp> hazmat: i'm wondering if it might be best if terminate-machine merely marks the machine as "terminated" and only the provisioning agent actually removes it from the state, once the machine has been really terminated.
[13:11] <wrtp> hazmat: then there's no need to be able to list all machines in the environment, i *think*.
[13:12] <hazmat> wrtp, it removes the machine state
[13:12] <wrtp> hazmat: currently, yeah.
[13:12] <hazmat> wrtp, the provisioning agent marks machine its creates in some fashion
[13:12] <hazmat> so it can identify them
[13:12] <hazmat> in ec2 it uses security groups
[13:12] <wrtp> hazmat: that's true.
[13:12] <hazmat> and then it deltas between state and provider instances
[13:12] <hazmat> and removes those with the mark but no state
[13:12] <wrtp> hazmat: i was wondering if it's actually necessary to be able to do that
[13:12]  * hazmat doesn't understand the question
[13:13] <hazmat> wrtp, as opposed to synchronous rpc to the provisioning agent?
[13:13] <hazmat> you can also mark the state as deleted and have the provisioning agent subscribe not just to children but  also to contents..
[13:13] <wrtp> hazmat: i don't think the provisioning agent subscribes to children
[13:14] <hazmat> the firewall component of the provisioning agent has some nested watches for exposed port management
[13:14] <wrtp> hazmat: i think it subscribes to topology
[13:14] <hazmat> wrtp, oh.. yeah.. right
[13:14] <hazmat> same principle though, you could mark the deletion in the topology
[13:14] <hazmat> wrtp, what's your alternative that your thinking about?
[13:14] <wrtp> hazmat: yeah, that's what i'm suggesting
[13:14] <hazmat> wrtp, yes you should go down that road
[13:15] <hazmat> wrtp, see the stop protocol proposal.. as a background
[13:15] <wrtp> hazmat: rather than simply deleting the machine from the topology and letting the provisioning agent do the delta.
[13:15] <wrtp> hazmat: link?
[13:16] <hazmat> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hazmat/juju/unit-stop/view/head:/source/drafts/stopping-units.rst
[13:16] <hazmat> wrtp, it would be nice if go juju had some proposals...
[13:17] <hazmat> ie. document architecture choices
[13:17] <hazmat> this is one thing we were really good at during the beginning of juju dev
[13:17] <wrtp> hazmat: i guess atm our proposals are all "do what py juju does" :-)
[13:17] <hazmat> that we fell off at, it would be good to resurrect
[13:17] <hazmat> wrtp, except when its not
[13:17] <wrtp> hazmat: true.
[13:18] <hazmat> pretty much everything different is undocumented
[13:18] <hazmat> the zk interaction etc.
[13:19] <wrtp> hazmat: that's true. i'd definitely like to see more docs on that. although in the code would be fine for me too.
[13:20] <hazmat> wrtp, in the code sort of defeats the purpose of a proposal's intent, unless its extractable prose
[13:20] <hazmat> api docs are not really architecture documentation
[13:20] <wrtp> hazmat: isn't a "proposal" about something that might be, rather than something that is?
[13:21] <wrtp> hazmat: BTW i like the intent of the stop proposal, but i'm of two minds.
[13:21] <hazmat> wrtp, its prose documentation about the impl
[13:21] <hazmat> and architecture
[13:21] <hazmat> we did typically do it in advance, but the value is the historical as well
[13:21] <wrtp> hazmat: as an operator i'd like to be able to do terminate-machine and have it just stop, not potentially hang waiting for buggy stop hooks to complete.
[13:22] <hazmat> because niemeyer wanted to agree on architecture before impl for most bits as a coordination/go-slow point
[13:22] <hazmat> wrtp, that's covered in the proposal
[13:22] <hazmat> wrtp, the supervision tree is still in effect
[13:22] <hazmat> it just gives a chance/notification and wait period for the buggy stop hook
[13:23] <hazmat> as opposed to ruthless termination which precludes any form of child cleanup/activity
[13:23] <wrtp> oh yeah, i see
[13:23]  * wrtp hates timeouts in general though :-)
[13:23] <wrtp> although i know they're unavoidable in general
[13:23] <hazmat> wrtp, your alternative suggestion is eagerly awaited ;-)
[13:24] <hazmat> coffee break, bbiam
[13:24] <wrtp> hazmat: just kill the machine. any system should be able to cope with that as a matter of course anyway...
[13:26] <hazmat> wrtp, right.. that's what we do now
[13:26] <hazmat> parent's kill children
[13:26] <wrtp> hazmat: what's the parent of a machine node?
[13:26] <hazmat> wrtp, the provisioning agent
[13:26] <hazmat> the environment from a state perspective
[13:26] <hazmat> but the point is that's problematic for a coordination system to not coordinate :-)
[13:28] <hazmat> for example the  switch to contained unit states in the service is something that should get documented as part of the zk tree layout docs we have.
[13:28] <wrtp> hazmat: agreed.
[13:29] <hazmat> i'd suggest bringing in juju/docs into the goport tree or into juju-core as a separate series
[13:29] <hazmat> and updating it there
[13:30] <wrtp> hazmat: good idea.
[13:31] <wrtp> hazmat: i think that and the (as yet unused?) presence node stuff are the only major deviations so far
[13:31] <wrtp> hazmat: but TheMue might know of more
[13:32] <hazmat> wrtp, well pinger nodes for ephemeral nodes as well
[13:32] <hazmat> wrtp, and the zk session expiration tomb behavior
[13:32] <wrtp> hazmat: that's what i meant by "presence node stuff"
[13:33] <wrtp> hazmat: is that a change visible in zk?
[13:33] <wrtp> (the session expiration behaviour, that is)
[13:33] <hazmat> wrtp, its an architecture detail thats worth documenting
[13:33] <hazmat> considering it was given as one of the main reasons to port to go..
[13:33] <hazmat> that might be nice
[13:34] <hazmat> we have lots of non zk state things documented
[13:34] <TheMue> wrtp: Seen my nick. Where do I know more?
[13:34] <hazmat> TheMue, pinger presence nodes
[13:34] <hazmat> as something to be documented
[13:34] <wrtp> TheMue: deviations of go juju state implementation from py juju state implementation
[13:36] <wrtp> hazmat: some of this stuff could definitely do with some more documentation, but i feel that the session expiration behaviour, in particular, is an implementation detail that would read well in the code, but isn't inevitable from the architecture of the system.
[13:37] <TheMue> hazmat, wrtp: Just took a look for orientation. I've never touched them, sorry.
[13:37] <wrtp> hazmat: although some internal implementation overview docs might be good too, i guess.
[13:38] <wrtp> hazmat: most of the stuff in docs/source/internals seems to be about higher-level and zk stuff, rather than how stuff is actually done in the python itself
[13:41] <wrtp> hazmat: is there a place that i can see all the proposals like your stop proposal? (just the mailing list archive?)
[13:43] <hazmat> wrtp, agreed and the session expiration handling is also a higher level detail
[13:44] <wrtp> hazmat: i guess so
[13:44] <hazmat> wrtp, their published as branches under code.launchpad.net/juju
[13:44] <wrtp> hazmat: hmm, useful :-)
[13:45] <hazmat> their isn't a good index of just the branches
[13:45] <hazmat> that are docs
[13:45] <hazmat> i've also got rest-api, security, environment-settings proposals extant there
[13:46] <wrtp> hazmat: might be useful if the branches were named xxx-proposal
[13:46] <hazmat> true
[14:22]  * Aram is using Go linear time regular expressions to validate PCRE regular expressions so that I can be sure they are also linear time.
[14:22] <Aram> this seems... weird.
[14:40] <hazmat> the nodejs package manager is really quite nice
[14:42] <Aram> I heard the same about it as well.
[14:43] <Aram> IMO node.js is a terrible way of doing things, but I actually like the guys because they are bold enough to try something different.
[14:43] <Aram> people are afraid to try new things these days.
[14:57] <TheMue> Aram: Not only these days. Leaving well known paths hurts many people.
[14:58] <Aram> yeah, I was using "these days" in a very loose sense, more likely "since the dawn of humanity" :).
[14:59] <TheMue> Aram: OK, this timespan matches.
[15:16] <wrtp> Aram: doesn't it depend very much on the input text?
[15:20] <hazmat> Aram, agreed, client/server language unification is nice, but via callback hell.. ick..
[15:20] <hazmat> Aram, their tooling and underlying event reactor usage (libev) is quite nice though
[15:53] <Aram> wrtp: yes, depends on the input text, that's what I am using for the first Go regexp, to validate it before sending it to PCRE>
[15:54] <TheMue> Anyone interested in a small proposal: https://codereview.appspot.com/6305067 ?
[15:54] <Aram> s/for/with/
[16:18] <wrtp> TheMue: LGTM
[16:19] <wrtp> TheMue: although i don't seem to be getting proposal emails any more.
[16:19] <TheMue> wrtp: Thx
[16:19] <wrtp> TheMue: i saw my own reply, but not your original proposal
[16:19] <TheMue> wrtp: Maybe due to the URI I used.
[16:20] <wrtp> TheMue: which URI was that?
[16:21] <TheMue> wrtp: First bzr push --remember lp:~themue/juju-core/go-state-relation-endpoint-verification and then lbox propose -cr -for lp:juju-core
[16:21] <TheMue> wrtp: Both times I used juju-core.
[16:22] <wrtp> TheMue: it should've worked, i think
[16:22] <TheMue> wrtp: I would expect it too.
[16:22] <TheMue> wrtp: Your proposal using juju popped up instead.
[17:03] <Aram> "launchpad.net/juju-core/juju/state"
[17:03] <Aram> what an ugly import
[17:04] <Aram> can we do better?
[17:16] <Aram> my bzr foo is lacking, why bzr branch lp:juju-core puts everything in juju-core as oposed to juju-core/juju as should be for the import paths to work?
[17:16]  * Aram is confused.
[17:45] <TheMue> Aram: There's a mail by Gustavo on juju-dev about the naming.
[17:46] <Aram> I've seen it. still confused about bzr branch dehavior though
[17:46] <Aram> behavior
[17:47] <TheMue> Aram: I'm coming more from svn and hg, so I'm sometime confused too.
[17:47] <Aram> likewise.


[07:26] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <slytherin> crevette: Good work on MIR. :-)
[08:11] <crevette> ah
[08:11] <crevette> hello
[08:11] <crevette> :)
[08:11]  * crevette needs to prepare its backpack for FOSDEM
[08:12] <crevette> thanks
[08:13] <crevette> slytherin: a I'll be away from computer for one week, could you manage to ask upload of gnome-bluetooth 0.11 ?
[08:14] <slytherin> crevette: First we need to get obex-data-sever in main and bluez-gnome 0.21 in. :-)
[08:14] <crevette> yep
[08:15] <crevette> perhaps all will be done in less than 2 days, who knowns ?
[08:15] <crevette> :)
[08:15] <slytherin> crevette: I will try to handle it in your absense.
[09:07] <lool> crevette: Ah you're going to FOSDEM, perhaps we'll come across
[09:08] <crevette> youp I hope, do you know what I look alike ?
[09:15] <lool> I don't
[09:22] <slytherin> crevette: Looks like we were bit late with all the process. Alpha 5 is scheduled on 21st so those changes won't bee accepted as of now.
[12:37] <Fenario> amanda and sg: are you planning on calling me now?
[13:34] <lool> I was blinking at « In an interview with LinuxDevices, MontaVista's new president and CEO Russell "Rusty" Harris said the company ... »
[13:41] <repete> Anyone know the login credentials for the Intel wiki?
[13:41] <repete> wrong window....
[13:42]  * repete kicks xchat
[14:00] <agoliveira> lool: Rusty is now Montavista's CEO? That's cool :)
[14:10] <bigon> tfheen: hi could you add the telepathy team to the bug bugcontact of telepathy-glib and telepathy-haze package
[14:11] <bigon> plz
[14:29] <Mithrandir> bigon: you should talk to me, not tfheen. :-)
[14:30] <bigon> oh https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy says thath tfheen is the team owner
[14:32] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going tell him about your personas? :P
[14:32] <lool> bigon: (/whois Mithrandir :)
[14:33] <bigon> damm :p
[14:34] <Mithrandir> bigon: yes, tfheen is my other IRC client.  (Look at the away message. :-)
[14:36] <suihkulokki> people here going to FOSDEM?
[14:39] <lool> suihkulokki: I am
[14:43] <Mithrandir> bigon: anyway, added.
[14:43] <bigon> thx
[14:46] <agoliveira> suihkulokki: I can only dream about it :(
[14:47] <slytherin> Mithrandir: Can you please look at FFE for bluez-gnome 0.21 and let me know if you have any questions?
[14:48] <Mithrandir> slytherin: isn't that blocked on obex-data-server in main first?
[14:49] <slytherin> Mithrandir: yes, I just wanted to have a review of .diff.gz. :-) And yes there is also a bug for MIR for obex-data-server.
[14:50] <Mithrandir> slytherin: oh, I'll be happy to review the diff, but I can't approve the exception before we have o-d-s in main
[14:50] <Mithrandir> slytherin: bug #?
[14:51] <bigon> Mithrandir: could you also see the FFE for tp-glib?
[14:51] <slytherin> bug 190405 for FFE and bug 193816 for MIR.
[14:52] <bigon> bug #193979 for tp-glib
[14:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193979 in telepathy-glib "Please sync telepathy-glib 0.7.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193979
[14:52] <slytherin> bug #190405 for FFE, bug #193816 for MIR.
[14:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190405 in bluez-gnome "[FFE] please upgrade bluez-gnome to 0.21" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190405
[14:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193816 in obex-data-server "Main Inclusion Request" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193816
[14:53] <Mithrandir> hm, I think we want 0.2 of o-d-s too, don't we?
[14:55] <Mithrandir> slytherin: there's a bug in how prep_mv_conffile is being called, it's being called without a package name
[14:56] <Mithrandir> (in the preinst)
[14:57] <Mithrandir> slytherin: also, doesn't browsing work now?  If so, why is it disabled?
[14:57] <slytherin> Mithrandir: Browsing doesn't work as of now. The backend is not finished in gvfs, AFAIK.
[14:58] <Mithrandir> hm, not even with o-d-s?
[14:58] <agoliveira> asac: Hi. Are you aware if the changes you've done in firefox are breaking openoffice builds? At least my builds on PPA are looking for firefox-xpcom and can't find it anymore.
[14:58] <slytherin> Mithrandir: With o-d-s it is not browsing, it is usual ftp transfers.
[14:58] <Mithrandir> slytherin: ah
[14:59] <Mithrandir> slytherin: why does it still depend on gnome-vfs-obexftp then?
[15:00] <slytherin> Mithrandir: In the hope that it will be fixed soon, considering that a obex patch is present for gvfs in gnome bugzilla. :-)
[15:01] <Mithrandir> apart from that, it looks fine to me
[15:01] <slytherin> Mithrandir: Any more questions? :-)
[15:02] <Mithrandir> slytherin: nope
[15:03] <Mithrandir> bigon: looks fine to me, though sispoty seems to want a diff of the symbol file
[15:04] <slytherin> Mithrandir: There have been some api changes in o-d-s 0.2 and I am not sure if bluez-gnome 0.21 has accomodated those changes. So I want to wait first to get o-d-s in main and FFE for bluez-gnome. Then we can think of upgrades.
[15:06] <Mithrandir> slytherin: ok
[15:06] <Mithrandir> I thought it needed 0.2, but I haven't tested it myself
[15:09] <bigon> Mithrandir: I've added the diff for exported symbols
[15:10] <slytherin> Mithrandir: By the way, does the MIR bug need to marked confirmed?
[15:12] <Mithrandir> slytherin: what does the wiki page documenting the process say?
[15:12] <asac> agoliveira: right ... calc is working on that and afaik he already has a patch for this specific issue.
[15:13] <agoliveira> asac: Ah, great. I'll poke him again later when he shows up. Thanks.
[15:13] <asac> but i think he didn't upload yet, because he wanted to get other things done first. maybe ping him
[15:13] <slytherin> Mithrandir: Doesn't say anything about confirming. I will leave it as it
[15:18] <agoliveira> asac: Yep. Just checked out the latest source and it's the same I already have. I'll flush-ping him later :)
[15:19] <asac> agoliveira: whip him hard :-D
[15:20] <agoliveira> asac: bad, bad, calc!
[15:47] <smagoun> amitk: Can I use apt-get source to get the exact kernel installed on a given machine? I'm using Hardy+PPA, 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia' pulls the source for 2.6.24-9.15.
[15:47] <smagoun> amitk: 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia=2.6.24-8.14' claims source isn't available
[15:48] <smagoun> amitk: and the latest linux-source package is 2.6.24-8.8
[15:48] <amitk> smagoun: something like this will get you the exact source: dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/restricted/l/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24_<IP_ADDRESS>-7.17.dsc;
[15:49] <amitk> adapt for kernel version, url, etc.
[15:49] <amitk> Above command followed by 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc'
[15:51] <smagoun> amitk: Thanks, I'll take that approach. I have to script a source download, I was hoping apt-get source could save me some time.
[16:01] <lool> amitk: dget -x to extract after get ;)
[16:02] <lool> smagoun: I have an ugly "list-debs" thingy to list .dsc URLs for me; it's especially useful when I'm under Ubuntu looking for Debian packages or vice-versa
[16:02] <amitk> lool: ummm.. right :)
[16:03] <lool> smagoun: It's really ugly, throw a nicer one at me if you write one ;) http://people.dooz.org/~lool/debian/list-debs
[16:04] <amitk> lool: man page for dget says that it runs dpkg-source -x
[16:06] <smagoun> lool: thanks, I'll take a look.
[16:07] <smagoun> amitk: why isn't the linux-source package updated (automatically?) at the same time as the kernel?
[16:09] <amitk> smagoun: The package name isn't linux-source anymore - that was in gutsy, it is linux-<vers> now IIRC
[16:09] <lool> amitk: Yes, I just wanted you to save the dpkg-source -x call
[16:09] <amitk> and it should be automatically updated, this is all handled internally by the debian build and archive system
[16:10] <amitk> lool: I saved one fork() or spawn() :-p
[16:10] <lool> But how many keyboard interrupts, hmm?
[16:11] <smagoun> amitk: ah, ok. There's a linux-source and a linux-source-<ver>. I only saw the metapackage
[16:30] <dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom
[16:52]  * rustyl starts creating a fresh hardy-ppa target
[16:52]  * lool fears
[16:53]  * GrueMaster hears a dog barking in the lonely distance....
[16:59] <davidm> About to start meeting
[16:59] <davidm> #startmeeting
[16:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:59. The chair is davidm.
[16:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:59] <davidm> Good day everyone,
[16:59] <rustyl> morning
[17:00] <davidm> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
[17:01] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
[17:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
[17:01] <davidm> Has anyone seen ChickenCutlass?
[17:02] <bfiller> still on holiday
[17:02] <davidm> OK I'll postpone his action until next week then
[17:02] <davidm> [topic] cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back.
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back.
[17:03] <cwong1> Here is what I find out:
[17:03] <cwong1> Firefox lang pack is installed as an extension.
[17:04] <cwong1> We need to modify the install.rdf file in order for it to be able to install
[17:04] <cwong1> also, we have to add more stuff to the package.
[17:04] <cwong1> We need to translate the strings used by the Grabanddrag extension and add to the package.
[17:05] <cwong1> So the bottom line is we can just use the fireox's lang pack asis.
[17:05] <cwong1> s/can/can't/
[17:06] <cwong1> I will attempt to create a lang pack and try it and see if it works.
[17:07] <kyleN> it might be helpful is someone who really knows the ubuntu lang pack mechanisms, including those used with Moz, could help figure out a solution here.
[17:07] <kyleN> s /is/if/
[17:07] <davidm> cwong1, will you have time to test this by next week?
[17:07] <cwong1> yes.
[17:08] <davidm> cwong1, can you take an action to report back next week with results then?
[17:08] <cwong1> ok
[17:09] <cwong1> kyleN: is Asac responsible for the ubuntu lang pack?
[17:09] <kyleN> cwong1: I am not sure, but I believe at least he is knowledgable
[17:09] <davidm> [action] cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results.
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results.
[17:09] <asac> cwong1: i am certainly not responsible to translate them ;)
[17:09] <cwong1> accept
[17:09] <cwong1> :)
[17:09] <kyleN> cwong1: right, we need a solution that enables translation too
[17:10] <kyleN> via luanchpad, like everything else
[17:10] <asac> bad news: launchpad team gave me heads up 2 days ago, that we won't have xpi export for hardy
[17:10] <cwong1> K
[17:10] <Mithrandir> well, firefox isn't translated through LP, so that's blocked on LP supporting that.
[17:10] <asac> i will still try to get something going, but i cannot tell how likely this is to succeed
[17:11] <lool> asac: Oh I just talked with Danilo about it and he said it was almost finished but not finished yet
[17:11] <lool> I thought it would be done for hardy :-(
[17:12] <asac> lool: me too ... but 2 days ago things went different. i am now looking if i can hack something that allows us to map .po files to firefox translations
[17:12] <asac> as launchpad supports import of .xpi, but no export
[17:12] <asac> but i cannot tell yet if that will work.
[17:12] <lool> asac: That's what I was told to do for hildon msgids
[17:12] <kyleN> asac. we may face the same issue with hildon
[17:13] <asac> maye someone can help out on eventual coding required to do this?
[17:13] <lool> asac: I'd suggest asking calc or looking at oo.o
[17:13] <asac> i would figure out the procedure (if possible at all), but help in code would be appreciated
[17:13] <lool> asac: As I was told it's doing this already
[17:14] <asac> lool: for the concept yes. but coding, testing all cases et al would require a bunch of work, i am not sure i can handle alone for hardy
[17:14] <lool> asac: Because of the XPI format itself?
[17:14] <asac> yes ... its definitly not trivial. i will give heads up next week. have to talk to launchpad folks (and calc) and so on
[17:15] <kyleN> davidm: since translating hildon  seems like a requirement for mobile, can you and patm talk about resources to help with this coding?
[17:15] <lool> asac: Let's give you action to report your success or call for help for next week then?
[17:15] <asac> yes please
[17:15] <lool> kyleN: It's different with Hildon, it's PO
[17:15] <kyleN> I though hildon also uses XPI
[17:15] <asac> really?
[17:15] <kyleN> some sort of po/xpi hybrid
[17:15] <asac> that would be news ;)
[17:15] <lool> [action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this
[17:15] <agoliveira> Ouch...
[17:16] <asac> lool: thanks
[17:16] <davidm> [action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.
[17:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.
[17:16] <lool> Thanks
[17:16] <asac> well ... i hoped that some lead wold look around for help :)
[17:16] <asac> davidm: thanks. we can look for help if i figured the theory
[17:16] <lool> kyleN: Hildon uses string ids, but XPIs?!
[17:16]  * asac over and out
[17:16] <lool> kyleN: Perhaps we can discuss this after the meeting
[17:16] <davidm> asac, that works, lets take that off line then.
[17:16] <kyleN> i lool, I could be wrong, but someone mentioned that along the way
[17:17] <davidm> OK next topic?
[17:17] <kyleN> sure
[17:17] <lool> kyleN: Bring it up with me after the meeting then, please :)
[17:17] <davidm> [topic] kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status.
[17:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status.
[17:17] <kyleN> ToddBrandt said cotrol panels implement gettext but it is "not switched on"
[17:18] <kyleN> not sue what that means really, but can it be "switched on"?
[17:18] <lool> ToddBrandt: Are you by chance around to immediately comment?
[17:19] <davidm> anyone at Intel near when ToddBrandt is?
[17:19] <rustyl> well, adding a mo file with fake translations to the right local directory will test this real quick
[17:19] <mawhalen> looking
[17:19] <davidm> mawhalen, thanks.
[17:20] <lool> I see _() calls all around the place, but no po/
[17:20] <rustyl> i know that no translations have been created
[17:20] <lool> No POT either
[17:21] <rustyl> hmm... the applets run inside the hildon-desktop process
[17:22] <rustyl> so if hildon-desktop is not properly initially gettext (setting local and all that jazz), then the gettext calls will not pick anything up
[17:22] <rustyl> maybe that is what ToddBrandt is talking about?
[17:22] <lool> I could get some pot file generated by inserting intltoo m4 macros and intltoolizing + intlool-updating --port
[17:23] <lool> rustyl: That would be a good explanation; did you discuss options around this already?
[17:23] <lool> Is it reasonnable to assign to ToddBrandt to generate proper templates in moblin-applets and perhaps tell us how he thinks we should handle gettext domain setting?
[17:23] <rustyl> i haven't thought about it... just thinking on my feet right now
[17:24] <rustyl> are the template files normally checked into the source tree?
[17:24] <lool> Is ToddBrandt around this week to give us more info on what's need to be done or to do it?
[17:24] <rustyl> i normally just create them myself
[17:24] <rustyl> yes, he is around
[17:25] <kyleN> I would like to gently suggest that Moblin needs to take an action to manage proper i18n implementations in all their code, to completion.
[17:25] <lool> rustyl: Usually there are proper releases with tarballs where we have these; po files are usually commited, I dont' think pot are
[17:25] <davidm> We have a lot to cover and we are kind of stuck here without ToddBrand, can we assign ToddBrandt an action to look into this?
[17:26] <rustyl> lool, that's what i thought... and a po file is a translation which we will not be doing
[17:26] <agoliveira> davidm: Of course, he's not here to deny :P
[17:26] <lool> rustyl: But is there anything in place yet to just build templates?
[17:26] <rustyl> lool, beyond the inttool stuff?
[17:26] <lool> rustyl: ATM, you can't run intltool-update --pot; I had to hack intltool in quickly
[17:27] <lool> Even if the file isn't committed because it's "generated", the rules to build it must be checked in
[17:27] <rustyl> ok, you mean Makefile rules?
[17:27] <lool> Yes, and configure.in checks etc.
[17:28] <lool> rustyl: For example, running intltoolize in autogen.sh, adding IT_PROG_INTLTOOL to configure.in, creating a po/ etc.
[17:28] <rustyl> what would be nice is a very clear definition on what Ubuntu expects for a properly internationalized (but not localized) application
[17:28] <kyleN> rustyl: absolutely. that would help
[17:29] <lool> Perhaps we can defer to the GNOME definition since we're building on Hildon which builds on GMAE
[17:29] <rustyl> if we can get that definition, then we can log a bug for each moblin project and just manage the bug database to fix all the projects
[17:30] <rustyl> for example... what magic do i need to do in my package so that launchpad is able to handle translations?
[17:30] <lool> AIUI, call intlool-update from po/ during the build
[17:30] <lool> This requires a PO-based/gettext-based package
[17:30] <lool> But I think this is a bit far reaching for the meeting
[17:31] <lool> rustyl: Would this help? http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool
[17:31]  * rustyl looks at the page
[17:31] <lool> There are many resources at http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject
[17:31] <davidm> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
[17:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
[17:31] <bspencer_> "This page does not exist.."?
[17:31] <davidm> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
[17:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
[17:32] <bspencer_> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines
[17:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines
[17:32] <lool> You need the rest + using gettext and intltool
[17:32] <kyleN> yes, these links have lots of info. but can it be boiled down for Moblin and others to the five or so things you need to do?
[17:32] <lool> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool
[17:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool
[17:33] <lool> kyleN: Perhaps someone can volunteer to sum the executive steps
[17:33] <lool> +up
[17:34] <bspencer_> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize%20using%20gettext%20and%20intltool
[17:34] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize%20using%20gettext%20and%20intltool
[17:34] <lool> I think it's easy enough for people writing modules to look how other modules in the GMAE stack (not the Hildon one) are doing it
[17:34] <lool> bspencer_: Thanks; I was too lazy to fix the spaces :)
[17:35] <bspencer_> lool, I'm less confused :)
[17:35] <lool> rustyl: So would this be enough resources to look into other GNOME modules and at the GNOME wiki to complete the i18n support in moblin-applets?
[17:35] <ToddBrandt> davidm: I'm here, sorry
[17:36] <lool> ToddBrandt: Cool; we were discussing what's missing from the moblin-applets source to complete i18n infrastructure
[17:36] <ToddBrandt> oh ok
[17:36] <rustyl> what i worry about is if all the links describe a range of many many things that could be done,  but there is some subset that is "required" in order for this team to not be disapointed
[17:36] <kyleN> lool, I will sum the executive steps if you will review them before I post them
[17:37] <davidm> kyleN, excellent, lool this OK with you?
[17:37] <lool> kyleN: SOunds like a deal
[17:37] <kyleN> and perhaps assist me with your oceanic knowledge as I pull this together
[17:37] <rustyl> BTW, we still have an issue with moblin-applets and the mobile-basic-flash
[17:38] <lool> rustyl, ToddBrandt: ok with you?
[17:38] <kyleN> lool, can we then meet soon, szy tomorrow, to discuss/kick this off?
[17:38] <ToddBrandt> lool: The gnome-control-center source (which mobli-applets is essentially a fork of) had complete internationalization support. I pulled some of it out but I can pull it back over again
[17:38] <davidm> [action] kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting.
[17:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting.
[17:38] <ToddBrandt> sounds good
[17:38] <lool> kyleN: Yes, but not too late as I'm leaving for FOSDEM in my afternoon; rather after the meeting would be bestr
[17:38] <kyleN> ok
[17:39] <lool> ToddBrandt: That would be nice; please on your side continue i18nizing until we can actually import a pot into launchpad; is that possible?
[17:39] <rustyl> lool, kyleN, ToddBrandt: don't forget... moblin-applets is executing inside the hildon-desktop
[17:39] <rustyl> and hildon-desktop has it's own wacky way of doing translations, right?
[17:39] <kyleN> rustyl: I am not sure what the consequences are of that fact
[17:40] <lool> rustyl: Even if it does, we need the infrastructure to translate its strings; this will involve pot / po files
[17:40] <kyleN> hildon uses po files, but non-english message ids, which is weird. there may be other weirdnesses
[17:40] <Mithrandir> rustyl: that shouldn't matter, it only complicates translations.
[17:40] <kyleN> i wonder whether hildon itself should just be made fully gettext compliant
[17:40] <ToddBrandt> lool: yes, I'll bring it all back in will rearrange the info to align with the text from the very latest moblin-applets
[17:40] <rustyl> ok, so hildon-desktop is doing the right thing... no problem then
[17:41] <davidm> ToddBrandt, how long do you think that will take?
[17:41] <lool> Good; davidm will [action] this and we can move on
[17:41] <kyleN> afterall, hildon is now in gnome and gnome is gettext
[17:41] <ToddBrandt> davidm: if I make it top priority, I'll have it ready by end of day tomorrow
[17:42] <davidm> ToddBrandt, so an action for next week is OK then?
[17:42] <ToddBrandt> davidm: yes
[17:42] <davidm> [action] ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week.
[17:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week.
[17:42] <davidm> OK I think we can move on now.
[17:42] <davidm> [topic] Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated"
[17:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated"
[17:43] <Mithrandir> lool: feel like explaining it all to people?
[17:43] <lool> I discussed this with Rosetta people and Tollef; most technical bits are clearer now, and if we really want to, we can setup a new Launchpad project to have our own translation imports and exports
[17:43] <kyleN> oooh
[17:43] <lool> It would involve a lot of manual work as we would need to upload source for each package, translate, and then upload the resulting translations
[17:44] <lool> I understand we would be able to upload one big translation pack with all our translated strings from our forked source packages
[17:44] <lool> We can't easily get a similar setup for PPA uploads as for Ubuntu uploads
[17:44] <lool> In general, it's best to continue using regular infrastructure until the string/ui freeze (we've almost reached it unfortunately)
[17:45] <lool> So the best thing to do is to keep the number of string changes to an absolute minimum
[17:45] <lool> A very minimalistic solution which we could use instead is to ship translations in the packages themselves (as GNOME does) for the packages where we change strings
[17:45] <lool> The first solution requires writing glue and doing many uploads
[17:46] <lool> I've sent detailed notes on this topic to Kyle; it depends a lot on the amount of changes we target
[17:46] <kyleN> my guess is the minimilistic solution, but I wonder if for Ibex release we might fix this?
[17:46] <lool> Is any of the above unclear?
[17:46] <lool> kyleN: To "fix" it the best thing to do is to align with the Ubuntu release schedule
[17:47] <davidm> Can we post the  detailed notes on the ubuntu wiki?
[17:47] <lool> davidm: It's from an email exchange, but I can reformat it for the wiki
[17:47] <kyleN> lool, do you think standard lang packs are good for mobile, or are they too big?
[17:47] <lool> (I'll also check if anything is confidential, but I don't think so)
[17:47] <davidm> hopefully with the next go around we can do more planning at the UDS so we come closer to the Ibex release schedule.
[17:48] <lool> kyleN: We need lang packs for our seed I think
[17:48] <davidm> lool, thanks
[17:48] <kyleN> lool, so that's the kind of "fix" I was talking about
[17:49] <lool> kyleN: I didn't understand this is what we had to look up
[17:49] <bfiller> lool: so we don't currently have language packs specific for the mobile build?
[17:49] <davidm> [lool] to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.
[17:49] <davidm> [action] lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.
[17:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.
[17:49] <lool> I don't think so
[17:49] <kyleN> lool, there are a lot of issues here, and lang pack size/mobile specific lang packs is one of them
[17:49] <lool> Just like there's no Xfce lang pack
[17:50] <lool> But there's a KDE one
[17:50] <bfiller> lool: what kind of work is involved with making mobile specific packs?
[17:50] <lool> I don't know; I suspect there's a big script running on the tarballs generated from LP
[17:51] <kyleN> langpack-o-matic script, I think
[17:51] <davidm> Folks we are runnig out of time here can we take this conversation to email?
[17:51] <lool> I would suspect we need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules
[17:51] <bfiller> lool: thanks, that makes sense
[17:51] <lool> Do I need to do research on this as well?
[17:51] <lool> (Which naturally eats my time not doing something else ;-)
[17:52] <davidm> lool, I think someone needs to do it.  does it have to be you?
[17:52] <bfiller> lool: would be appreciated. kyleN can you help out as well?
[17:52] <kyleN> I can help out
[17:52] <lool> I gained most knowledge about language packs recently, so I'm not deeply competent, but it could be me
[17:52] <davidm> [action] lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules
[17:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules
[17:52] <lool> Let's assign it to me + kyleN here as well then
[17:53] <davidm> OK next topic
[17:53] <davidm> [topic] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things.
[17:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things.
[17:53] <davidm> Mithrandir, ?
[17:54] <Mithrandir> I've failed to do that; Somebody said lool had a page of all the components and their statuses, but he wasn't around when I asked him so it fell through.
[17:54] <Mithrandir> lool: do you have that URL?
[17:54] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0 ?
[17:54] <bfiller> Mithrandir: I posted it to the email list. It's on the wiki:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0
[17:54] <Mithrandir> ah, thanks.
[17:55] <Mithrandir> davidm: please just give me the action item again and I'll get it done before the next meeting.
[17:55] <davidm> OK
[17:55] <davidm> [action] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover)
[17:55] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover)
[17:55] <davidm> [topic] Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing.
[17:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing.
[17:56] <Mithrandir> that's set up
[17:56] <Mithrandir> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/libmokoui2/trunk has an import now, so Frank should be able to work from that import using bzr.
[17:57] <lool> Can someone relay this to Frank?
[17:57] <lool> bspencer_: ^^^ ?
[17:57] <rustyl> FYI: since I went ahead and uploaded the latest moko package from moblin to unblock my uploading of other moblin packages
[17:57] <Mithrandir> probably good if StevenK does it, as he's been helping out already.
[17:57] <bspencer_> lool, es
[17:57] <rustyl>  /since//
[17:57] <bspencer_> y
[17:57] <lool> bspencer_: Thanks
[17:58] <davidm> new topic?
[17:58] <bspencer_> davidm, hold
[17:58] <bspencer_> is StevenK here?
[17:58] <davidm> No, he is not currently
[17:58] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I doubt it :)
[17:58] <bspencer_> smagoun, you noted rusty's comment?
[17:58] <rustyl> i have a new topic
[17:58] <davidm> rustyl, please add it to the wiki page
[17:58] <smagoun> bspencer_: I'm 'smagoun', not 'StevenK' :)
[17:59] <kyleN> rustyl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
[17:59] <bspencer_> smagoun, yes, just noting since you were the one who rolled back mobile-media before
[17:59] <bspencer_> should work now, but we have our own moko in the PPA, not the one Mithrandir mentioned
[17:59] <bspencer_> ok, that's all.
[17:59] <bspencer_> davidm, unhold
[17:59] <davidm> OK, next topic
[18:00] <smagoun> bspencer_: ah, gotcha. As long as I can build a working image from the PPA I'm happy
[18:00] <bspencer_> yep
[18:00] <rustyl> i just want to ask about the status of fixing the dbus session while running a hardy ppa target in Xephyr
[18:00] <davidm> [topic] (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular)
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular)
[18:00] <rustyl> do i need to update the wiki for that?
[18:00] <davidm> rustyl, yes
[18:00] <rustyl> ok, what section?
[18:00] <lool> I was wondering who was planning to attend UDS (and FOSSCamp)
[18:00] <bspencer_> rustyl,  end of Current Items
[18:01] <davidm> at the bottom of Current Items
[18:01] <davidm> On the Intel side do you have plans yet?
[18:01] <lool> At the moment, I'm planning to only attend UDS; if folks on this chan or Intel folks in particular know they will come, could they please build a list?
[18:02] <davidm> On our side Mobile team is attending UDS, Stevenk and I FOSSCamp
[18:02] <davidm> I don't know about the MBU team yet
[18:02] <lool> As always, the more people can come, the more things we can discuss in a fast and constructive way, and the more things we can get done!  :-)
[18:02] <bfiller> lool: the MID team status is uncertain depending on customer commitments
[18:02] <bfiller> lool: we all want to attend
[18:02] <lool> bfiller: Excellent news :)
[18:02] <kyleN> yessiree
[18:03] <davidm> bfiller, it will make our list of things to do shorter if you don't come ;-)
[18:03] <bfiller> lool: excellent if we can come :)
[18:03] <bspencer_> Intel hasn't discussed this yet, or costs.
[18:03] <bfiller> davidm: that is for sure!
[18:03] <davidm> Ok next topic
[18:03] <lool> So this was just to bring the subject up; in general Canonical people know how this works, if people at Intel know of someone outside of Intel who should come please tell us!
[18:03] <lool> bspencer_: (Would be nice to discuss on your side!)
[18:03] <davidm> [topic] (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list
[18:04] <bspencer_> mawhalen, note:  discuss UDS attendance :)
[18:04] <lool> I think that's obvious from my status report
[18:04] <lool> I stopped sending status reports for a while (publicly) which is wrong (tm)
[18:04] <davidm> bspencer_, I've sent a request to Intel for some specific people to attend
[18:04] <lool> I think we should resume sending them
[18:05] <lool> Intel folks were better behaved than me here
[18:05] <davidm> lool, I agree we need to keep them on the public lists when possible.
[18:05] <davidm> OK next topic OK?
[18:05] <lool> I personally copy paste my internal activity reports into a public one filtered from confidential issues
[18:05] <lool> (ok for next topic)
[18:05] <agoliveira> lool: You're right. I missed that too.
[18:05] <davidm> [topic] (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide)
[18:06] <GrueMaster> Question on status reports:  Do we (Intel) want to put benchmark info on system steppings in the public forum?
[18:06] <kyleN> so we will need to make some 'themes". and Shane's good writeup points out the Intel has not updated their theme to supprot the theme tools
[18:06] <lool> GrueMaster: If you can, any info is good
[18:06] <davidm> GrueMaster, I think  not
[18:06] <HappyCamp_laptop> GrueMaster: very doubtful
[18:06] <GrueMaster> That's what I thought.
[18:06] <kyleN> bspencer_: do you have anything to say to this point?
[18:06] <davidm> Intel Canonical Wiki I think is the place for those
[18:07]  * lool notes
[18:07] <bspencer_> sabotage, ping
[18:07] <GrueMaster> I just noticed some of that in a recent email post.
[18:07] <lool> kyleN: Which writeup is this?
[18:07] <bspencer_> kyleN, yes, we need to make sure the tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools
[18:07] <kyleN> lool, mentioned in Topic
[18:07] <bspencer_> and sabotage (Shane Bryan) has this assignment
[18:07] <lool> Ok
[18:08] <lool> bspencer_: Is it doable for next week?
[18:08] <kyleN> bspencer_: does he need an action?
[18:08] <bspencer_> kyleN, he needs to attend first :)
[18:08] <bspencer_> lool,  I don't know.   It would be a stretch
[18:08] <kyleN> then do you need one, bspencer_ ? ;)
[18:08] <bspencer_> lool, we should bring it up with mawhalen and sabotage
[18:08] <bfiller> bspencer_: related question is when will sabotage "release" his document to the public?
[18:09] <lool> bspencer_: Ok, let's action our two to get this scheduled
[18:09] <mawhalen> bspencer_: I'll follow up on that one
[18:09] <lool> So action on mawhalen to plan the theme update?
[18:09] <bspencer_> bfiller, soon.  We have just to review again and legal-proof it.  Nothing extraordinary.  That can be done by next week :)
[18:10] <davidm> [action] mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan)
[18:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan)
[18:10] <bfiller> bspencer_: thanks
[18:10] <kyleN> great
[18:10] <davidm> next topic
[18:10] <sabotage> sorry folks...on another call...
[18:11] <bspencer_> sabotage, the Q is 3 parts
[18:11] <bspencer_> 1) doc
[18:11] <bspencer_> 2) theme tools
[18:11] <lool> rustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?
[18:11] <bspencer_> 3) theme from tools
[18:11] <sabotage> Theme guide has been reviewed by editor, I have been adding updates and proper attributions, and it will need at least one more tech ed review and a legal review before publishing
[18:11] <sabotage> no action yet on the tools
[18:11] <rustyl> lool... are talking about the dbus session issue?
[18:12] <davidm> sabotage, do you have any timeframes for this
[18:12] <lool> rustyl: Sorry, I'm anticipating
[18:12] <davidm> rustyl, not yet
[18:12] <bfiller> kyleN: can you and sabotage offline the specific issues you are having with themes?
[18:12] <davidm> almost
[18:12] <sabotage> actually, I was hoping for more feedback from kyleN bfiller and others I sent it to before we start changing the tools
[18:12] <davidm> rustyl, almost, it's the next topic
[18:12] <kyleN> bfiller: yes, but it's an intel issue to bring their images into theme compliance
[18:12] <sabotage> davidm: timeframe for what?
[18:13] <davidm> items bspencer_ outlined above 1 - 3?
[18:13] <bfiller> sabotage: I think kyleN has some specifics on the doc. I have reviewed it only briefly (looks great..)
[18:13] <bfiller> kyleN: agreed
[18:13] <kyleN> sabotage: you know what I am referring to, correct?
[18:13] <bspencer_> davidm, mawhalen, sabotage  and I will need to review the schedule, per your previous action.
[18:13] <sabotage> kyleN: bfiller I agree it's an intel issue, but I want to ensure our path is in line with community norms/desires
[18:13] <davidm> OK then lets move on one last topic
[18:13] <kyleN> right
[18:14] <davidm> [topic]  (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels.
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:   (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels.
[18:14] <sabotage> kyleN: no
[18:14] <davidm> rustyl, topic is up now.
[18:14] <lool> rustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?
[18:14] <rustyl> i don't know how it's supposed to work
[18:14] <lool> AIUI, it's mounting filesystems and setting things up to enter and leave the chroot already
[18:14] <bfiller> sabotage: me, you and kyleN should plan on talking next week
[18:14] <rustyl> it worked with the old version of X
[18:14] <lool> It could as well do an invoke-rc.d dbus start
[18:15] <bfiller> rustyl: I think the problem is related to running a Hardy image in a Gutsy chroot
[18:15] <rustyl> dbus is starting
[18:15] <HappyCamp_laptop> lool: I thought our ume-xephry-start script did that
[18:15] <sabotage> bfiller: kyleN: sure, lets talk...Wed/Thur I'm OOP
[18:15] <kyleN> Wed
[18:15] <lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Then I don't understanst the issue we're discussing; I thought it was to help with this
[18:15] <kyleN> offline guys
[18:15] <bfiller> rustyl: have you or anyone else tried it on a Hardy box?
[18:16] <HappyCamp_laptop> not me
[18:16] <rustyl> no, but i don't see how that could be it... xephr is run from inside the chroot
[18:16] <rustyl> all the code is execting inside a hardy chroot
[18:16] <bfiller> rustyl: not everything
[18:17] <lool> rustyl: Perhaps we should investigate in a bug report rather than in the meeting?
[18:17] <rustyl> what do you think is escaping the chroot that could cause this?
[18:17] <rustyl> are people seeing this 'just work' on their hardy systems?
[18:17] <bfiller> bfiller: possible a dbus conflict, or some security related issue as many things have changed btwn hardy and gutys
[18:17] <lool> rustyl: Perhaps dbus checks whether another dbus process is running or whether it's being started from within a chroot?
[18:18] <lool> rustyl: Yes, hardy under hardy works
[18:18] <bfiller> rustyl: I am seeing the same problem as you. Xephry does not work with hardy image running on gutsy
[18:18] <rustyl> lool, ok, so some people are using Xephr
[18:18] <rustyl> i thought everyone was broke, and nobody was saying anything
[18:19] <agoliveira> rustyl: nope, runs fine here (hardy/hardy)
[18:19] <lool> So perhaps you could investigate together with a hardy and a gutsy box to compare?
[18:19] <agoliveira> Or just use hardy? ;)
[18:19] <bfiller> rustyl: rephrase - many apps and control panels do not work correctly in Xephry, but it does launch:)
[18:19] <rustyl> on my main developerment machine... not a chance
[18:20] <bfiller> rustyl: I agree. Lets file a bug and get this assigned to someone
[18:20] <rustyl> bfiller, the real test would be open a terminal, and type "dbus-monitor --session"
[18:20] <lool> davidm: Any last minute topic?
[18:21] <davidm> Nope this is the last topic
[18:21]  * HappyCamp_laptop cheers!
[18:21] <davidm> so is this going to a bug report?
[18:21] <davidm> if so who is doing so?
[18:21] <bspencer_> davidm, bfiller wanted to do it.  He's not very busy these days
[18:21] <lool> haha
[18:21] <bfiller> bspencer_: I'll do it :)
[18:22] <bfiller> (file the bug that is)
[18:22] <bfiller> Is it a MIC bug?
[18:22] <rustyl> i don't think so
[18:22] <bspencer_> I expected the next line to be :  ACTION bspencer to file a bug :)
[18:22] <bspencer_> but MIC or the ume-xephyr-start script may be able to remedy it if it is simple.
[18:22] <rustyl> but the resolution could result in a change to mic
[18:22] <davidm> [action]  bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems?
[18:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:   bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems?
[18:23] <davidm> That describe it well enough?
[18:23] <agoliveira> An action if form of a question? :)
[18:23] <davidm> Slipped
[18:23] <bfiller> davidm: good enough, I know what you mean
[18:23] <davidm> OK then
[18:23] <davidm> time to end going once ................................................
[18:24] <bspencer_> agoliveira, 2s after meeting?
[18:24] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Sure.
[18:24] <davidm> ending meeting going twice..........................................................................................................
[18:24] <davidm> #endmeeting
[18:24] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:24.
[18:24] <bspencer_> agoliveira, I see you uploaded a galculator to hardy PPA.  Where is the source repository for that?  Is there one in bzr with the Hildon patches already?
[18:25] <kyleN> lool, you see my private hat with you on i18n?
[18:25] <kyleN> chat
[18:25] <lool> kyleN: I don't; are you registered?
[18:25] <bspencer_> and if I want to make small changes, should I upload them to debian/patches in that bzr repo, or just make changes directly to a hardy branch?
[18:25] <agoliveira> bspencer_: The source is aways the one in hardy. This one on PPA is quite old IIRC.
[18:25] <kyleN> hmmm, i believe I am my nick is... maybe it isnt
[18:26] <kyleN> can you create a room then and invite me?
[18:26] <lool> kyleN: 19:25 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 10 weeks 2 days (22h  38m 3s) ago
[18:26] <bspencer_> agoliveira, I'd like to know where we plan to keep the source repo so i can make my changes there and then gen the PPA source from there.
[18:26] <lool> kyleN: You need to identify on reconnects
[18:26] <kyleN> lool wow
[18:26] <bspencer_> we had it on moblin but took it off at the sprint
[18:26] <bspencer_> now it is homeless.
[18:26] <kyleN> I see
[18:26] <lool> kyleN: We can discuss non confidential issues here and confidential ones on our internal IRC
[18:27] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Ah, sorry. Now I remember. We had a period a few days ago where galculator won't build for lpia due some missing hildon dependencies so I uploaded that one to ppa.
[18:27] <kyleN> lool, hang on I want to talk about i18n...
[18:27] <kyleN> ok, lool, I believe to i18n C code you do the following
[18:27] <lool> kyleN: Yes, I'm hanging on; but as the meeting slipped, we're getting close to my dinner
[18:27] <kyleN> include libintl.h
[18:27] <agoliveira> bspencer_: You can aways use the PPA and once done we can upload to the main repos.
[18:27] <kyleN> define macros for _( substitution
[18:27] <kyleN> modify code to use _( for strings exposed in UI
[18:27] <bspencer_> agoliveira, I can replace yours with the one we have on moblin with our patches, but again the source repo is undefined
[18:28] <kyleN> then to build
[18:28] <kyleN> you need a po/ dir
[18:28] <kyleN> it has to contain POTFILES.IN
[18:28] <agoliveira> bspencer_: The source repo is aways hardy. We don't have 2.
[18:28] <kyleN> and Mavevars
[18:28] <kyleN> somehow, the build has to call intltool-update -p
[18:28] <agoliveira> bspencer_: apt-get source galculator
[18:28]  * bspencer_ tries to find it on launchpad...
[18:28] <kyleN> how?
[18:28] <kyleN> is that all for C?
[18:28] <bspencer_> agoliveira, but that has no HILDON changes for lpia, or does it?
[18:28] <rustyl> agoliveira, that's not a source repository
[18:29] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Should have.
[18:29] <lool> kyleN: Usually, translators do it when they work on an updated po
[18:29] <agoliveira> rustyl: Because you don't have versioning?
[18:29] <lool> kyleN: Our packages also do it via CDBS magic for example
[18:29] <kyleN> lool, you mean call intltool-update -po?
[18:29] <kyleN> -p
[18:29] <rustyl> agoliveira, at the sprint we agreed that a bzr repo would be created for each project we colaberate on
[18:30] <lool> kyleN: Concerning the #includes, it's a bit simplistic; you also need to setup intltool in your configure.in and intltoolize to add proper rules to the po/
[18:30] <tremolux> bspencer_: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator
[18:30] <bspencer_> agoliveira, something on:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/
[18:30] <lool> kyleN: grep intltool-update -r /usr/share/cdbs
[18:30] <kyleN> what is inltoolizwe, is that a script?
[18:30] <agoliveira> rustyl: I'm not telling you that use the bzr is wrong, just that the authoritative source is the one on hardy.
[18:30] <kyleN> ok
[18:30] <tremolux> bspencer_: it does have the hildon changes, but not some important changes after that (osso stuff, other things)
[18:31] <lool> kyleN: This is included in GNOME packages
[18:31] <agoliveira> rustyl: You can use bzr and after you're done ask for upload.
[18:31] <rustyl> i think tremolux has pointed us to what we are asking for
[18:31] <agoliveira> the diff I mean
[18:31] <bspencer_> tremolux, ok.
[18:31] <lool> kyleN: intltoolize is bundled with intltool to copy over distribution files for intltoolized packages
[18:31] <bspencer_> do I have write access to the hardy branch?  Who do I send my patches too?
[18:31] <bspencer_> s/too/to
[18:31] <kyleN> lool, ok, is that it then?
[18:31] <lool> kyleN: For example intltool-update.in, intltool-merge.in etc. are copied by intltoolize as well as po/Makefile.in.in
[18:31] <kyleN> (lool, they are calling me for another meeting, darnit, i hvae to go...)
[18:32] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Make the changes and open a bug on launchpad.
[18:32] <lool> kyleN: Well that's mostly it; perhaps you can try to create a hello world GNOME app which would have a ./configure, a main.c and po/ files
[18:32] <bspencer_> agoliveira, ok.  I have what I need.  I'll make patches against this source and send them to...you or tremolux
[18:32] <bspencer_> and upload to the PPA in the meantime
[18:32] <lool> kyleN: Below http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject there's plenty of guides; "For maintainers and developers" is what you should focus on
[18:32] <tremolux> bspencer_: awesome, thanks
[18:32] <kyleN> ok. cheers lool.
[18:32] <bspencer_> tremolux, who are you? :)
[18:32] <agoliveira> bspencer_: We don't have more access than you so I'll have to open a bug the same way :)
[18:33] <tremolux> bspencer_: hehe Gary Lasker
[18:33] <bspencer_> ah, Gary.  sorry.
[18:33] <tremolux> bspencer_: :)
[18:33] <bspencer_> tremolux doesn't look like "Gary" :)
[18:33] <bspencer_> but then again Mithrandir doesn't resemble "lool" either
[18:33] <bspencer_> s/lool/tollef
[18:33] <bspencer_> :-\
[18:33] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I sugessted SpongeBobsPet but he didn't like it :)
[18:33] <tremolux> bspencer_:  [:)
[18:34] <lool> kyleN: If something is unclear, ping me or send me an email
[18:34] <lool> kyleN: Also, one good thing to try is to build GNOME modules from SVN and from tarball
[18:34] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: I've been using Mithrandir as my IRC nick for about 12 years, it's hard to change. :-)
[18:34] <lool> kyleN: Take one small module, for example hmm zenity
[18:34] <lool> kyleN: zenity is a wrapper around gtk+ widgets for the shell
[18:34] <tremolux> bspencer_, agoliveira I gotta run to an engineering meeting, thanks for the galculator
[18:34] <bspencer_> cheers
[18:35] <lool> kyleN: You can checkout the SVN, see what the "autogen" does (it calls intltoolize) how configure.in has intltool hooks etc.
[18:35] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Anyway, send me the debdiff against Hardy's galculator and I'll see to upload it.
[18:35] <lool> kyleN: Then you can try to create your own zenity tarball with make dist and/or look at the official tarballs; you should see the files shipped in releases
[18:36] <bspencer_> agoliveira, thx.
[18:36] <lool> kyleN: This should be all you need to get started; there isn't much, but it's best to try out the process from a maintainer and translator perspective to get the big picture :)
[18:36] <agoliveira> bspencer_: No problem.
[18:37]  * lool dinner &
[18:57] <bspencer_> agoliveira, does the upstream galculator already have the concept of building for lpia and hildon?
[18:57] <bspencer_> have they made those changes to the configure.ac, or equivalent?
[18:58] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I don't knwo about upstream, sorry.
[18:58] <bspencer_> ok
[18:58] <agoliveira> bspencer_: The source from hardy, does.
[18:58] <bspencer_> sure
[19:07] <bspencer_> bfiller, what do you guys use for a soft keyboard?
[19:07] <bspencer_> are you using mobile-matchbox-keyboard?
[19:07] <bfiller> bspencer_: yes, just using the stuff you guys provide
[19:07]  * bspencer_ checks PPa
[20:12] <th89> hey guys, i developed a new mobile application for windows mobile 6. u can check it out at http://thetechturf.com/?page_id=224
[20:12] <th89> its Google2GO!
[20:24] <agoliveira> th89: Nice but useless for us.
[21:09] <th89> agoliveira, yeah
[21:09] <th89> agoliveira, but still getting the word out....
[22:02] <StevenK> bspencer_: Hi, who can I grab to talk about Helix?
[22:10] <bspencer_> StevenK, probably rustyl  or the guy in PRC is halley -- starts work in about 3hrs.
[22:11] <rustyl> StevenK, what's up?


[02:47] <infinity> ^-- Seems to suffer some quoting issues in quantal, testing locally and fixing before I reupload. :/
[02:49] <stgraber> well, at least these were spotted before it landed in precise ;)
[02:53] <infinity> stgraber: That was why I uploaded it to quantal too. ;)
[02:54] <infinity> This'll teach me to not have a BuildLiveCD setup on my laptop.
[02:54] <infinity> (Rectified now, and testing)
[02:55] <infinity> I do so appreciate that colin cargo-culted my 0c3.net local mirror setup in livecd-rootfs when he did the live-build switch. :P
[04:22] <ScottK> If any SRU person has a moment, both postfix ^^^ and python SRU's that are waiting for accept are ones that'd be really good to get in soon for 12.04.1.
[05:34] <infinity> stgraber: Alright, all fixed, and tested in "no headers installed" (ubuntu-core), "one set of headers installed" (ubuntu quantal), and "two sets of headers installed" (ubuntu precise-proposed) cases.
[15:50] <stgraber> infinity: awesome! do you know the squashfs size of your precise test run?
[19:15] <infinity> stgraber: Filesystem size 685670.83 Kbytes (669.60 Mbytes)
[19:16] <infinity> stgraber: It really doesn't save much space, since squashfs already de-dupes all the identical files between the two headers packages (which is nearly all of them).
[19:16] <infinity> stgraber: Before and after:
[19:16] <infinity> Number of duplicate files found 26971
[19:16] <infinity> Number of duplicate files found 10451
[19:28] <stgraber> infinity: what architecture was that? (so I can compare to a current one)
[19:30]  * stgraber will need to figure out what to drop or tweak to save that 9MB... (at least we have two langpacks we could drop if needed)
[19:32] <infinity> stgraber: amd64.
[19:32] <infinity> Filesystem size 687821.18 Kbytes (671.70 Mbytes)
[19:32] <infinity> Filesystem size 685670.83 Kbytes (669.60 Mbytes)
[19:32] <infinity> stgraber: ^-- It dropped 2MB here.
[19:32] <infinity> stgraber: Which is something, I guess, but not huge.  It's mostly about saving (tons of) space on the target installation.
[19:33] <infinity> stgraber: What grew by 9MB?  firefox/thunderbird upstream revision aggressiveness?
[19:35] <stgraber> 2MB is already quite good. I haven't tracked down what caused the live images to go oversize, it's on my list of this week but yeah, libreoffice/firefox/thunderbird are pretty likely the cause of it.
[19:39] <infinity> Well, we could buy you a ton of space by cleaning /var/lib/apt/lists/, but it would come with a hefty penalty for people on slow network connections.
[19:41] <stgraber> I guess we could clean updates and security without much cost as these are likely to change and require re-download right after install anyway
[19:41] <stgraber> but it's probably not going to save nearly as much space as the release pocket ;)
[19:41] <infinity> Yeah, cleaning the !release pockets won't buy you much of anything.
[19:43] <infinity> Looks to be maybe about 500k compressed.
[19:43] <infinity> Not worth the debugging time to make sure it doesn't eff something up, I suspect.
[19:44] <infinity> stgraber: You could, however, just start finding large packages to SRU with an s/gz/xz/ no-change upload. ;)
[19:44] <infinity> Oh, wait.  livefs.
[19:44] <infinity> I'm not awake.
[19:44] <infinity> La la la.


[03:31] <blue_penquin> I've been running it by default for over a year now although not on Ubuntu... things have been pretty smooth for me; admittedly Nvidia users are in a worse position.


[22:49] <dhillon-v10> newz2000, hi :)
[22:55] <dhillon-v10> newz2000, I was supposed to contact you for the Ubuntu website editors team


 The next show will be:
 Jick is scheduled in 0 days, 1 hours, and 8 minutes. Which is on Thu Jan 16 23:00 EST. However, this is still unconfirmed.
[03:28] <Omnifrog> this is one small part of why I am leaving the schedule
[03:28] <Omnifrog> not quitting
[03:28] <Omnifrog> not yet
[03:28] <Omnifrog> just stepping back
[18:25] <netritious> if you had to buy a laptop today, of the following three major manufacturers, who would you buy from and why? dell, hp, or lenovo? for home not office
[18:36] <wrst> netritious: I would buy a system 76 or a macbook hows that? :)
[18:38] <netritious> lol that's fine wrst
[18:39] <wrst> I must say my wife's macbook has been a very good machine, 5+ years on it now and still functioning very well
[18:40] <netritious> <-- will never buy an apple product. costs to dang much lol
[18:40] <wrst> I can't see myself buying a windows laptop for personal use period not that I despise windows 8/8.1 with great passion...
[18:40] <netritious> they still sell win7 laptops
[18:40] <wrst> netritious: must say the quality is better, but if you spend that on another brand you will get equal quality
[18:41] <wrst> yeah really don't want that either, especially for personal use, I could use OS X however but prefer not
[18:41] <netritious> <-- only buys refurbished laptops
[18:41] <netritious> all these rules I have lol
[18:42] <wrst> I generally buy refurbed also
[18:43] <netritious> I just don't see the cost benefit of buying new laptops. I was more curious about people's experience with the three major manufacturers.
[18:44] <wrst> netritious: I currently have an asus and have been really happy with it
[18:45] <wrst> it was bargain basement 2 years ago or maybe 3 its a i3 and I added RAM up to 8GB and put an ssd etc but been very good for me
[18:46] <twayneprice> netritious: the hp here looks pretty good:  http://bensbargains.net/categories/notebooks-83/
[18:47] <netritious> I have a toshiba, dell, and hp...I like the HP.
[18:48] <wrst> I have had HP and liked them too netritious
[18:48] <netritious> looking at this on newegg... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3SB1AH6495
[18:49] <wrst> that looks good, a lot better than a chromebook and at a chromebook price
[18:54] <netritious> it's about the same specs as the hp on the page you linked


[13:52] <Squirm[Web]> hello
[13:57] <kbmonkey> hello
[14:13] <tumbleweed> superfly: I never saw your ITP. Did you get a reply confirmation?
[14:13] <superfly> tumbleweed: no, I was wondering about that... was going to ask you about it
[14:13] <tumbleweed> you reported it with reportbug?
[14:13] <tumbleweed> did you configure reportbug first? (you need to)
[14:15] <superfly> no, I didn't configure reportbug
[14:15] <superfly> I'll check that out
[14:15] <tumbleweed> it assumes you have a working MTA on localhost
[14:15] <tumbleweed> that's not true for most people
[14:19] <superfly> tumbleweed: ah...  I am trying new medication for my diabetes... so I am off the insulin for now... but I am getting just about every side effect these meds are known for... and from online research it my take a few weeks for me to adjust
[17:50] <Kilos> eish sorry to hear that nlsthzn
[17:50] <nlsthzn> well it is a step up cause no more insulin... so I am happy and nausouos (spelling) at the same time
[17:51] <Kilos> Maaz, spell nausious
[17:51] <Maaz> Kilos: Suggestions: Nauseous or nauseous
[17:51] <Kilos> there we go
[17:51] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[17:51] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[17:53] <kbmonkey> we hope the side-effects wear off soon enough nlsthzn.
[17:54] <nlsthzn> thx :)
[17:54] <Kilos> nlsthzn, have you tried natural remedies
[17:55] <Kilos> google natural remedies for diabetes
[17:55] <nlsthzn> Yes... pills and injections
[17:55] <Kilos> Maaz, google natural remedies for diabetes
[17:55] <Maaz> Kilos: "Natural Treatments for Type 2 Diabetes" http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/conditionsatod/a/Diabetes.htm :: "Natural Cures for Diabetes: Remarkable Remedies That Works by ..." http://www.enaturalhealthcures.com/natural-cures-for-diabetes.html :: "Discovery Health "32 Home Remedies for Diabetes"" http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/natural-medicine/home-remedies/home-remedies-for-diabetes.htm :: "Natural Cures for Diabetes - Herbal
[17:55] <kbmonkey> i know the feeling, get my 'bad meds' days too.
[17:56] <nlsthzn> but I have changed my diet completely
[17:56] <kbmonkey> low sugar/fresh foods? :)
[17:59] <Kilos> kbmonkey, whats wrong with you?
[18:00] <kbmonkey> i'm a monkey Kilos, of course
[18:00] <Kilos> ya man but if you gotta live on meds something is wrong
[18:00] <kbmonkey> it's meds for the head, to control the crazies
[18:01] <nlsthzn> is it working?
[18:01] <nlsthzn> just joking mr. kbmonkey
[18:01] <kbmonkey> it takes 6 to 12 weeks before we'll know, and if it doesn't we'll have to start again on new ones :/
[18:02] <magespawn> Okay then
[18:02] <kbmonkey> so each time you switch, you get new symptoms. lol! but yea it looks good. even if they make you see orange objects.
[18:03] <kbmonkey> that was a joke btw...
[18:04] <kbmonkey> they're really periwinkle
[18:04] <Kilos> whew what kinda bug have you got
[18:05] <magespawn> Just do not carry on one sided conversations where 'normal' people can here, they don't understand
[18:05] <Kilos> magespawn, am i classed as normal?
[18:06] <magespawn> You can't be you come in here
[18:06] <Kilos> oh good
[18:06] <kbmonkey> ^ ha ha!
[18:08] <kbmonkey> normal is another way of saying "too boring to laugh at yourself"
[18:08] <kbmonkey> ...or was that, with yourself?
[18:10] <kbmonkey> I just compiled a new window manager, spectrwm. is that normal?
[18:10] <superfly> kbmonkey: you're weird.
[18:10] <Kilos> hehe
[18:11]  * Kerbero does not disagree with superfly
[18:11] <Kilos> he smokes funny stuff superfly
[18:11] <kbmonkey> lol Kilos! I hate to disappoint, but no I don't
[18:11] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[18:12] <Kilos> you mean you are like the naturally
[18:12] <kbmonkey> I get high on Linux my friend
[18:13] <kbmonkey> ja, wel, maybe it was too much milktart and koeksisters when I was conceived
[18:13] <Kilos> oooyummy
[18:13] <kbmonkey> I had vetkoek just now!
[18:14] <Kilos> lekker
[18:14] <Kilos> with mince or jam?
[18:14] <kbmonkey> echo vetkoek > /dev/null
[18:14] <kbmonkey> it disappeared!
[18:14] <magespawn> Hah
[18:14] <Kilos> huh
[18:14] <kbmonkey> nutella. chocolate
[18:15] <magespawn> Well thats healthy then
[18:15] <kbmonkey> ye well, i can since the 75% of everything else is raw food XD
[18:16] <Kilos> raw mince is lekker
[18:16] <kbmonkey> o_O
[18:16] <kbmonkey> yuck
[18:16] <Kilos> only time i use pepper
[18:17] <Kilos> haha you not an O blood group hey?
[18:17] <kbmonkey> I can't rmember what I am, is that bad?
[18:18] <Kilos> O bloods are protein peeps
[18:18] <Kilos> meat is good for us
[18:18] <magespawn> Raw steak with tabasco sauce
[18:18] <Kilos> yummy
[18:19] <kbmonkey> fear factor
[18:19] <magespawn> Inlaws like all their mear cremated
[18:19] <Kilos> eish
[18:19] <Kilos> thats a sin
[18:20] <Kerbero> hehe
[18:20] <magespawn>  Have got my wife to medium rare if I baste it
[18:20] <Kerbero> i have parents like that
[18:20] <Kerbero> we always eat charcoal after a braai
[18:20] <magespawn> Carpacio
[18:20] <Kerbero> hehe
[18:20] <Kilos> burnt meat is bitter and yucky
[18:21] <Kilos> old saying of a good braai steak
[18:21] <kbmonkey> okay let's try this WM out. If I don't return, something went wrong :p
[18:21] <Kilos> jy moet dit net skrik maak met die vuur
[18:21] <magespawn> I think that is right, Italian dish of raw thinly sliced meat with mozorella and viniger but the special viniger
[18:22] <Kerbero> i think you are right
[18:23] <Kilos> steak tartar
[18:24] <magespawn> Never saw the point of that, I like the texture/grain of the meat. And that is mixed with raw egg too.
[18:25] <Kilos> lol raw egg is very healthy too
[18:25] <Kilos> its minced for peeps without teeth
[18:25] <magespawn> Looks like something went wrong.
[18:25] <magespawn> No kbmonkey
[18:26] <magespawn> I thought the recipe said minced always
[18:26] <Kilos> yes it is
[18:26] <Kilos> lol
[18:26] <magespawn> Hah
[18:27] <Kilos> i often eat half the mince raw before we even get home
[18:27] <Kilos> well not often
[18:27] <magespawn> Have you heard about the super rare expensive coffee?
[18:27] <Kerbero> o
[18:27] <Kerbero> i did
[18:27] <magespawn> That is a bit strange.
[18:27] <Kerbero> the one that is shit out by monkeys/cats
[18:27] <Kilos> without salt even. meat has a lekker tatse if you savour it
[18:27] <magespawn> The one that goes through the civit
[18:28] <magespawn> That it does Kilos
[18:28] <Kerbero> copi luac
[18:28] <Kerbero> or something like that
[18:28] <Kerbero> kopi luak
[18:28] <Kerbero> absolutely no idea how to spell it
[18:28] <Kilos> Kerbero, what are you talking about
[18:29] <magespawn> Coffee
[18:29] <Kerbero> yes
[18:29] <Kilos> from cats and monkeys
[18:29] <Kerbero> "super rare expensive coffee"
[18:29]  * Kilos frowns
[18:29] <Kerbero> the animal eats the beans
[18:29] <magespawn> Kopi luwak
[18:29] <Kerbero> and then people comes along and pick it up afterwards
[18:29] <Kilos> eish
[18:30] <Kilos> sis
[18:30] <Kerbero> you should wiki it
[18:30] <Kilos> its not healthy to partake of anythings excrement
[18:30] <magespawn> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
[18:30] <Kerbero> Maaz, google kopi luwak
[18:30] <Maaz> Kerbero: "Kopi Luwak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak :: "Animalcoffee - Kopi Luwak from Indonesia" http://www.animalcoffee.com/ :: "Cat's Ass Coffee - Kopi Luwak" http://www.catsasscoffee.com/ :: "The Coffee Critic ~ Kopi Luwak" http://www.thecoffeecritic.com/fusion3/html/kopi.shtml :: "Kopi Luwak is the world's rarest gourmet coffee beverage." http://www.ravensbrew.com/NewFiles/kopiluwak.html ::
[18:30] <magespawn> Hah
[18:31] <Kerbero> i'm sure they wash it first
[18:31] <Kerbero> :P
[18:31] <Kilos> sjoe im shocked
[18:31] <Kilos> and peeps pay money for washed excrement
[18:31] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:32] <magespawn> $160 per pound
[18:32] <Kilos> wow
[18:32] <magespawn> Yup for civit poop
[18:33] <Kilos> good thing its so expensive, normal peeps cant try act fancy by buying it
[18:33] <Kilos> must be for the aliens on the planet
[18:34] <Kilos> or the mayan offsprin
[18:34] <Kerbero> alien food
[18:34] <Kilos> okserious question now
[18:34] <magespawn> Okay
[18:35] <Kilos> do packages in the repos get upgraded with time or is that all supposed to be done online
[18:35] <charlvn> oyaho all
[18:35] <Kilos> hi charlvn
[18:35] <charlvn> hi Kilos :)
[18:35] <magespawn> Hi charlvn
[18:35] <charlvn> hi magespawn :)
[18:36] <Kilos> charlvn, have you fixed your gnome
[18:36] <charlvn> Kilos: yes, i installed gnome3 on 11.10 natively and on 12.04 inside virtualbox with 3d acceleration enabled
[18:36] <charlvn> i just needed the gnome-shell package, not the ppa
[18:37] <charlvn> on both versions
[18:37] <magespawn> This might seem like an odd one to, and not that it really matters, but does anyone know how many guys vs gals we have in here?
[18:37] <Kilos> great
[18:37] <Kilos> 36 guys one gal
[18:37] <Kilos> lady fly
[18:37] <charlvn> online anyone can claim to be anything lol
[18:38] <Kilos> ya but you get to know then with time
[18:38] <magespawn> Indeed
[18:38] <Kilos> like um
[18:38] <Kilos> whew
[18:38] <Kilos> con something
[18:39] <charlvn> i'm a girl, here's a photo of me http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/280/826/d11.jpg
[18:39] <magespawn> I like to think I could do convincing woman, at least thats what my wife says.
[18:39] <charlvn> do you buy it?
[18:39] <charlvn> lol magespawn
[18:39] <Kilos> hahaha magespawn
[18:39] <charlvn> :D
[18:39] <Kilos> charl from no church
[18:40] <charlvn> from no church?
[18:40] <magespawn> Yeah sure i buy that.
[18:40] <charlvn> magespawn: sure... :P
[18:40] <Kilos> van nie kerk
[18:40] <charlvn> niekerk is short for "nieuwekerk"
[18:40] <charlvn> it means new church
[18:40] <Kilos> we chatted about your nick a year ago or more
[18:41] <Kilos> oh you a new church guy
[18:41] <charlvn> actually it's a name of a town in gelderland
[18:41] <charlvn> one (or more) of my ancient ancestors happen to come from the town
[18:41] <Kilos> but whatever you arent female
[18:41] <charlvn> nope :P
[18:41] <Kerbero> waar licht gelderland?
[18:41] <charlvn> Kerbero: als je nederlands kan spreken dan weet je dat wel :P
[18:42] <Kerbero> lol
[18:42] <Kerbero> ik weet wel dat het zuid van drente licht
[18:42] <Kerbero> en oost van zeeland
[18:42] <charlvn> ja idd
[18:42] <charlvn> dat klopt
[18:42] <Kerbero> en dan weet ik het niet
[18:42] <magespawn> Bbl putting fishs to bed
[18:42] <Kerbero> lol
[18:42] <Kilos> k
[18:42] <Kerbero> sing them a song?
[18:43] <magespawn> No but read them a story
[18:43] <Kilos> no one answered the question about packages in the repos
[18:43] <Kerbero> i guess the answer is yes
[18:44] <charlvn> Kilos: sorry what was this about?
[18:44] <Mezenir> evening all
[18:44] <Kilos> sec i go find it charlvn
[18:44] <Kilos> hi Mezenir
[18:44] <charlvn> k
[18:44] <Kilos> do packages in the repos get upgraded with time or is that all supposed to be done online
[18:45] <Mezenir> anyone have any luck switching from headphones output to speakers in vlc on the fly during playback simply by plugging out the headphones ?
[18:45] <Kilos> Kerbero, yes to which part of the question?
[18:45] <Kerbero> both
[18:45] <Kilos> lol
[18:45] <Kerbero> repos is always online
[18:45] <Kerbero> are
[18:46] <charlvn> Mezenir: just tried it, works fine for me
[18:46] <Kilos> ok lemme try again
[18:46] <Kerbero> and they get updates continuously
[18:46] <Mezenir> thanks
[18:46] <charlvn> Kilos: yeah that is my understanding as well, not sure if i understand the question correctly...
[18:46] <Kilos> is it better to wait till a release is updated and stable before downloading a repo
[18:47] <Kerbero> o, you want to make an offline copy of the repo?
[18:48] <Kilos> if the packages in thew repo get upgraded there then if one gets a whole repo then online updates will be minimal right?
[18:48] <Mezenir> charlvn: are you using ubuntu with pulseaudio ?
[18:49] <Kerbero> Kilos, i think that is a yes
[18:49] <Kerbero> if i understand your question correctly
[18:49] <Kilos> ok ty Kerbero then i will wait 6 months or so before i get ian to download the repo for me
[18:50] <charlvn> Mezenir: whatever is the default
[18:50] <Mezenir> ok
[18:50] <Kilos> i dunno how to explain what i mean any other way
[18:50] <charlvn> audio just works out of the box for me so never messed with it too much
[18:50] <Kerbero> Kilos, waiting for all the bugs to be fixed and those updates to be in the repo, will be better before making a copy
[18:50] <Kerbero> so yes
[18:51] <Kerbero> charlvn, is dat echt jij in dat foto?
[18:51] <Kilos> great ty Kerbero
[18:51] <charlvn> Kerbero: nee tuurlijk niet lol :P
[18:51] <Kerbero> hehe
[18:51] <Kerbero> leuke foto toch
[18:52] <charlvn> ja ik leg even lekker met een dakimakura te knuffelen op een bed... wat prettig
[18:52] <charlvn> zoveel van een weeaboo ben ik ook niet :/
[18:52] <charlvn> :D
[18:53] <Kerbero> hahaha
[18:53] <charlvn> wappanese ftw
[19:00] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:00] <Kerbero> nag
[19:01] <charlvn> ciao Kilos
[19:01] <Kerbero> charlvn, nou het ons die channel vir onsself
[19:02] <Kerbero> vertel my iets
[19:03] <Kerbero> iets diepsinnigs
[19:03] <charlvn> diepsinnigs, verduidelijk aub de terminologie :)
[19:04] <Kerbero> de appeltjes van de koningin die gaat naar berlin
[19:04] <charlvn> he?
[19:04] <Kerbero> lol
[19:04] <Kerbero> i'm just being random
[19:04] <charlvn> zij mag het maar hierheen sturen ik eet ze ook wel graag op lol
[19:04] <Kerbero> a little bored
[19:04] <charlvn> morgen is haar dag ook nog...
[19:04] <Kerbero> o
[19:04] <Kerbero> echt?
[19:05] <charlvn> an is het weer oranje overal
[19:05] <Kerbero> zo het is de moeder van beatrix's verjaardag morgen
[19:05] <Kerbero> juliana
[19:05] <Kerbero> iirc
[19:06] <charlvn> ja dat klopt
[19:06] <Kerbero> Maaz, google koninginnendag
[19:06] <Maaz> Kerbero: "Koninginnedag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninginnedag :: "Koninginnedag - Wikipedia" http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninginnedag :: "Aanslag Koninginnendag Apeldoorn Schokkende Beelden 16 + ..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQcB-YrGocM :: "Koninginnendag promo - YouTube" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_TboIe1lc0 :: "Koninginnendag Klundert - YouTube" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xhsWaIuv
[19:06] <Kerbero> geen datum :(
[19:06] <charlvn> beatrix is geboren op 31 January 1938
[19:07] <charlvn> juliana is 30 April 1909
[19:07] <charlvn> moes het zelf ook even opzoeken hoor :P
[19:07] <Kerbero> lol
[19:08] <Kerbero> is het niet nu mathys op tv?
[19:09] <charlvn> geen flouw idee, ik kijk dus geen tv
[19:09] <Kerbero> haha
[19:09] <Kerbero> ik ook niet
[19:09] <Kerbero> mijn NL familie kijk het wel IEDERE avond
[19:09] <charlvn> mijn tv bestaat uit: http://www.animeplus.tv/ http://twit.tv/ http://revision3.com/
[19:10] <Kerbero> ik kijk ook geen anime :|
[19:10] <charlvn> dan heb jij dus heel veel vrije tijd toch? ;)
[19:11] <Kerbero> dat zal je wel denken
[19:11] <charlvn> de enigste nederlandse tv show die ik volg is tegenlicht op vpro http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/programmas/1221-tegenlicht
[19:11] <charlvn> dat vind ik wel een zeer leuke show
[19:11] <charlvn> maar verder gee ik geen bal
[19:11] <Kerbero> hmm
[19:12] <Kerbero> ik heb dat noch nooit gezien
[19:14] <charlvn> als je "diep" spullen wil opzoeken dan is haruhi (anime) een goeie start... als je zomaar ligzinnig humor willen hebben is kabouter wesley veel beter :P
[19:14] <Kerbero> ik wil eigelijk een andre' van duyn of zo hebben
[19:17] <charlvn> of ja daar is veel van op uitzending gemist
[19:17] <charlvn> sterke humor dat
[19:17] <Kerbero> wel ok, tijd voor een beetje scifi
[19:17] <Kerbero> ik moet beter naar uitzendinggemist kijken
[19:17] <Kerbero> als ik tuis is met beter internet
[19:18] <charlvn> ook een goeie keuze tuurlijk
[19:18] <Kerbero> ok doei charlvn, en geniet koninginedag
[19:18] <charlvn> bedankt!
[19:18] <charlvn> ciao
[19:20] <magespawn> I am also off night all.
[19:36] <kbmonkey> well it worked, yey
[19:40] <superfly> kbmonkey: ?
[19:45] <kbmonkey> trying out a new WM superfly, http://ompldr.org/vZGs5bw
[19:45] <kbmonkey> bare bones right after setup :p
[19:48] <Mezenir> so super whens the next meeting thing
[19:49] <kbmonkey> in 2 weeks iirc
[19:52] <Mezenir> yay
[19:52] <Mezenir> meetings are fun
[19:53] <superfly> Mezenir: you mean like an Ubuntu Hour?
[19:53] <Mezenir> btw superfly how much experimentation did you do with arch linux ?
[19:53] <Mezenir> yes like ubuntu hour
[19:53] <Mezenir> specifically with regards to alsa and udev
[19:53] <superfly> Ah, we had a release party last Friday
[19:53] <Mezenir> for hotplugging usb headsets
[19:53] <superfly> Mezenir: not much in that regard
[19:53] <Mezenir> ah
[19:53] <Mezenir> i missed it then
[19:54] <superfly> yeah. I saw you in the channel the other day and wanted to tell you, but I was too late and we missed each other
[19:54]  * superfly only saw that Mezenir had been visiting
[19:54] <Mezenir> thanks anyway
[19:55] <Mezenir> wonder how the new lubuntu is
[19:55] <Mezenir> will try it out at work
[19:55] <kbmonkey> i'll have to hold my excitement until I can get a 12.04 CD :D
[19:56] <Mezenir> hehe
[19:56] <kbmonkey> the update from 11.10 is about 800 MB. eek
[19:56] <Mezenir> if youre in ctn i can giive you the iso
[19:57] <superfly> Mezenir: no, kbmonkeyis in PTA or KZN or something...
[19:57] <superfly> I don't think he's too sure where is most days either
[19:57] <kbmonkey> KZN
[19:58] <kbmonkey> true that superfly
[19:58] <kbmonkey> there is no time in the land of the intertubes
[19:58] <Mezenir> hehe k
[19:58] <kbmonkey> I'll try get a copy from william in durbs or one of the dbnlug guys


[00:26] <ChrisWoollard> Goodnight all. See you in a week (approx)
[00:27] <ChrisWoollard> or possibly tomorrow
[02:20] <daker> funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5k8ncasGwU
[14:24]  * daker is listening to Bob Marley - No woman no cry
[14:25]  * nisshh is listening to: The Prodigy - Omen
[15:23]  * daker is listening to Flo Rida ft. David Guetta - Club can't handle me
[18:46] <daker> hi EgyParadox
[18:46] <daker> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-arabic-manual
[19:27] <c7p> daker: ping
[19:27] <daker> c7p, pong
[19:29] <c7p> i got a question, the statics on the link you gave me the other day ( http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=23 ) are for the Greek and English manual together or only for the Greek ?
[19:29] <daker> only the greek
[19:29] <c7p> ok ty for the info
[19:29] <daker> nop
[19:32] <c7p> btw the page is very nice :P
[19:32] <daker> thanks & the statistics are nice :p
[19:32] <c7p> yap
[19:48] <godbyk> c7p: There have been 4 copies of the book downloaded from the lulu.com site, and 1 print copy sold.
[19:48] <c7p> oh great :P
[19:48] <c7p> i was about to ask about lulu, you are in my mind xD
[19:52] <thorwil> godbyk: if c7p is right, you better not move the furniture
[19:52] <c7p> lol
[19:57] <godbyk> lol
[19:59] <godbyk> Oops.. must've bumped something. ;-)
[20:00] <thorwil> :)


[18:19] <cjwatson> juliank: any objection to me cherry-picking my lzma compression fix into xenial's apt?  I'd like to get the trusty SRU moving as quickly as possible so that we can get Launchpad instances upgraded so that we can flip xz on for dists/xenial/ in time for release
[18:22] <juliank> cjwatson: I'll upload 1.2.5 bugfix release soon which I want to get synced
[18:22] <juliank> sson = few minutes
[18:27] <cjwatson> juliank: ah, cool, thanks.  I can organise a trusty SRU of that patch then
[18:37] <juliank> cjwatson: There's another bug that needs fixing for trusty.
[18:37] <cjwatson> oh?
[18:39] <juliank> bug #1445436
[18:40] <juliank> We might have found another bug today
[18:41] <juliank> cjwatson: ok, the other we found today does not exist in trusty, but fixing the segfault above seems to be a good idea
[18:42] <juliank> the patch is tiny
[18:45] <cjwatson> ah, another remapping bug, whee
[18:48] <cjwatson> juliank: well, if you're on top of an upload, cool, since I'm wiped out from flying back from Uruguay, otherwise let me know what git commits I should grab :)
[18:52] <juliank> cjwatson: What you need for the SRU is (1) your fix (2) http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/commit?id=4ea471ecb013d188d03a5c3efb9b21e58ef56065
[18:52] <juliank> 1.2.5 is released now and can be synced in a few hours hopefully
[18:53]  * juliank wants to thank travis for providing free CI
[18:54] <cjwatson> ah, quite an old CP there, ok
[19:06] <cjwatson> juliank: uploaded; thanks for the advice