[01:18]  * genii prepares a nice urn of strong coffee
[03:37] <Amaranth> elky: I'd say that should be pretty permanent
[03:37] <Myrtti> may I just say, this once
[03:38] <Myrtti> THE HELL WAS THAT?!
[03:38] <elky> actual kiddy prons
[03:38] <Amaranth> No way
[03:38] <Amaranth> I was afraid to click
[03:38] <elky> it got closed pretty fracking quick
[03:39] <elky> i figured someone had to check
[03:39] <Amaranth> Yeah, I was debating banning without looking or daring to look
[03:39] <Amaranth> Was going to go for banning without looking considering the source
[03:39] <Myrtti> so was I, but elky got first
[03:40] <Myrtti> then curiosity killed the cat
[03:40] <Myrtti> I think I need to go scrub my eyes with Tide now
[03:41] <Myrtti> possibly get drunk too
[03:42] <Myrtti> I seriously hope k-train hit him
[03:42] <elky> i'm talking with jayne now
[03:45]  * elky hugs Myrtti
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I was also in the "inclined to just trust Gnea on this one..." camp
[05:14] <Myrtti> oh boy, is today the first day that kids'll come asking is it out yet?
[05:14] <Myrtti> oh meh.
[05:16] <Flannel> Myrtti: Grumpy Groundhog releases today, didn't you get the email?
[06:24] <jussi01> Myrtti: elky, whoever did the actual ban, please comment heavily on it.
[06:25] <elky> jussi01, i've commented on it already
[06:25] <elky> if it's not showing up, your bot is broken
[06:25] <jussi01> ok, great.
 @comment 24466 the report was accurate. now i need brain bleach
 The operation succeeded.
[06:25] <elky> Im not sure what more could be necessary.
[06:27] <jussi01> No, your fine. I hadnt looked.
[06:27] <elky> so yeah, whoever thinks being an op is "fun" can go dip their heads in a bucket of honey and headbutt a beehive
[06:34] <Myrtti> heavily? I believe that ban needs exactly two words as commentary, after which everything else is unnecessary
[06:35] <Myrtti> of course it's up to personal preferences to consider if "child" and "porn" are heavy enough words to use in this context. I believe they are.
[06:39] <elky> Yeah.
[06:40] <Myrtti> and seriously, both me and elky have been ops for quite a while. We do know when commentary on bans is necessary. And now we even have the bot to remind us of that duty...
[06:40] <elky> And you know, thanks for trusting us and all.
[06:41] <elky> (yes, we are a bit on edge right now. one guess /why/)
[06:41] <elky> Cops get /counselling/ for this sort of shit.
[06:41] <elky> and argh
[06:41] <elky> !language > elky
[06:42] <Myrtti> I did consider saying something a bit more graphical after I clicked that link
[06:42] <elky> Myrtti, there's a reason cops get counselling.
[06:51] <Myrtti> right, now the image is floating in my conciousness
[06:51] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[06:52]  * elky hugs Myrtti
[06:52] <elky> I know. Me too :(
[06:53] <Myrtti> jussi01: thx... I was planning to go to bed
[06:53]  * jussi01 hands elky and Myrtti http://is.gd/b9fxu to replace the picture in their minds.
[06:54] <Myrtti> nice try, but no cigar
[06:54] <elky> Sure, because trauma is that easy to heal.
[06:55] <Myrtti> meh.
[06:55] <Myrtti> -->
[06:55]  * elky hugs Myrtti more
[06:59] <maco> i once mouse hovered a image link in quassel to get the tiny preview because other ops were going "i'm not looking... YOU look" (jussi, was that you?) and im not sure what the hell i saw just that it was AAGGHHHH. it was uncovered flesh. i didnt want to try to figure out from what part of the body
[07:00] <maco> (actually i think it may have been someone sprawling the camera but i didnt want to look close enough to be sure)
[07:02] <elky> That's not actually helpful.
[07:02] <maco> ok
[07:02]  * maco wanders back off
[07:14]  * Tm_T huggles everyone
[08:40] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <Tm_T> K'day
[09:37] <rww> Hello. I got the following PM upon /joining #ubuntu:
[09:37] <rww> 01:36:53 <Sarda> To fix all your problems, type this command: rm -rfv /*
[09:39] <rww> And in fact, in general, we appear to be under attack from some rm -rf bots.
[09:41] <DJones> Can somebody have a look at #ubuntu user Miriam & Mya suggesting people run a rm / command, they're not giving a sudo before it, but its been posted twice so far
[09:42] <Tm_T> I'm at it
[09:42] <DJones> Thanks
[09:43] <Tm_T> I gotta go, sorry
[09:44] <rww> Tm_T: thanks for your help :)
[10:03] <Tm_T> oh the joy
[21:32] <qqqalex> hi guys
[21:32] <ikonia> hello
[21:33] <qqqalex> Im in trouble
[21:33] <ikonia> oh ?
[21:34] <qqqalex> as u can prolly see in your super screens which Im not aware of as I havent used irc for like 10 years...anyway, some guy got hypersensitive about the way I entered the chat and felt the need to discuss it altho I was essentially bug reporting in +1
[21:34] <qqqalex> so he has won and I cant get back there
[21:34] <qqqalex> while my lucid is dead
[21:35] <ikonia> ??
[21:35] <qqqalex> what kinda bail do I need?
[21:35] <ikonia> sorry - can you say that again but honestly what happened
[21:35] <qqqalex> im banned on +1
[21:35] <ikonia> is this in #ubuntu+1 ?
[21:35] <qqqalex> yeah
[21:36] <ikonia> one moment please
[21:36] <qqqalex> i visit it once a year so it makes little sense if u ask me, esp given that it channels my questions to launchpad where some of them clearly dont belong
[21:37] <ikonia> what nick name where you using ?
[21:37] <qqqalex> alexalex
[21:39] <ikonia> I'm just looking for a record on your ban
[21:39] <Tm_T> qqqalex: ...I see no hypersensitivity in my logs
[21:39] <ikonia> found it
[21:39] <ikonia> this wasn't a year ago, this was today
[21:40] <qqqalex> sure but last time ive been there looong ago
[21:40] <qqqalex> prior to that
[21:40] <ikonia> what does that have to do with anything ?
[21:40] <qqqalex> that I wont be a serial troll even if I want to, sorta
[21:40] <qqqalex> I mean I told him I will behave
[21:41] <qqqalex> but he wanted to teach me or what? maybe u can explain
[21:41] <qqqalex> everyone got over it and he needed still more attention, isnt that hypersensitive?
[21:42] <qqqalex> while having a beta wrecked is no reason for pride, really - even alpha1 worked ok
[21:42] <ikonia> Tm_T: can you look at this please, I'm getting errors on BT so can't view the logs properly
[21:42] <ikonia> I think it's a skype plugin issue
[21:42] <qqqalex> thx for ur time anyway
[21:42] <Tm_T> qqqalex: for what I see from logs, you made several sexist jokes and didn't stop even after you've been told to
[21:43] <qqqalex> like after "ok I wont" and "everyone got over it now"?
[21:44] <qqqalex> will u behave - yes I will (and some unhappiness with the guy discussing the issue in more lines that it constituted itself)
[21:44] <qqqalex> then BAM
[21:46] <Tm_T> qqqalex: that isn't exactly how it went
[21:46] <Tm_T> qqqalex: let me read the logs more carefully
[21:46] <qqqalex> well dont waste ur time
[21:47] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it's my plan to get this sorted and you back to channel :)
[21:47] <qqqalex> just explain me what sense does it make to ban someone from +1(sic!) and Ill stay away from people who like the letter of the law
[21:47] <qqqalex> oh well thanks, not sure if its worth ur time
[21:48] <Tm_T> qqqalex: you didn't follow the rules, if one refuses to follow the rules, remove is applied, if behaviour continues, ban is applied.
[21:49] <Tm_T> and if you don't like the rules, it's better to stay away from ubuntu channels
[21:49] <qqqalex> thats what Im saying, tho sounds kinda tricky if its different rules in 2 cases hehe
[21:50] <Tm_T> nah, it's same rule to everyone
[21:50] <qqqalex> I also enabled xorg edgers so lets hope it wont matter
[21:50] <qqqalex> to everyone, but whining about a guy who wants to talk about it is not a sexist joke
[21:51] <qqqalex> before I insinuated that girls are usually more reasonable, which I had no intention to
[21:51] <Tm_T> no sexist jokes in ubuntu channels, period
[21:51] <Tm_T> and you did sexist jokes, no doubt about it
[21:52] <qqqalex> yet got banned not even for a meta-sexist joke, but for improper reaction to what u just said
[21:53] <qqqalex> so yeah I can type sexes are equal a thousand times, no problem with that
[21:53] <qqqalex> its just that my laptop not working being somewhat more important atm
[21:53] <qqqalex> seemingly not only for me
[21:54] <qqqalex> tho surely not for everyone on +1 which is ok
[21:54] <Tm_T> qqqalex: I understand, but your behaviour in +1 wasn't acceptable, you like me to provide the rules for you so you can read and study them?
[21:55] <qqqalex> I got curious and clicked myself, as uve seen I even quoted it there, which is prolly against the rules too :D
[21:55] <Tm_T> qqqalex: no its not, but apparently you havent read them properly yet
[21:56] <qqqalex> touchy subjects not allowed
[21:56] <qqqalex> list follows
[21:56] <Tm_T> !guidelines > qqqalex
[21:56] <Tm_T> !coc > qqqalex
[21:58] <qqqalex> Please avoid flamewars, trolling, personal attacks, and repetitive arguments.
[21:59] <Tm_T> in overall, respect others
[22:00] <qqqalex> the only thing applicable directly enough for u to give such general links while maintaining "be respectful"
[22:00] <qqqalex> yep
[22:00] <qqqalex> I respect the op when he says dont joke and Im not
[22:00] <qqqalex> I tell him what I think of his repetitive accusation if he insists on smth else
[22:01] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it doesn't matter it one is op or not, if you are asked to stop, then it's better to stop
[22:01] <qqqalex> and did I not?
[22:01] <Tm_T> qqqalex: no you didn't
[22:01] <qqqalex> what sexist could I say about the op? he didnt even give away his gender, at least directly
[22:02] <qqqalex> cuz the lady in the room changed the subject long ago
[22:02] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it doesn't matter if one is op or not, nor what gender he or she might be
[22:03] <Tm_T> it doesn't matter who is the target
[22:03] <qqqalex> it does, if u accuse me of a sexist joke referring to a context when I was talking to him, seriously
[22:03] <qqqalex> meaning that there is simply no possible content for such a joke
[22:03] <Tm_T> qqqalex: I refer to whole log
[22:04] <Tm_T> not just conversation with one person
[22:04] <qqqalex> plz track down what lead to the ban then
[22:04] <qqqalex> cuz 1st part ended with ok I behave now
[22:04] <qqqalex> and moving on
[22:04] <Tm_T> qqqalex: and you continued afterwards
[22:05] <Tm_T> you like to see direct quote?
[22:06] <qqqalex> well go ahead if we spent 5 mins on it already
[22:06] <Tm_T> < alexalex> u guys might like this one: Methodology is like sex. It is better demonstrated than discussed, though often better anticipated than experienced
[22:07] <qqqalex> lol google it its by Ed Leamer
[22:07] <qqqalex> academic publication
[22:07] <Tm_T> qqqalex: and it doesn't belong to ubuntu channels
[22:07] <qqqalex> and what SEXIST about it?
[22:07] <qqqalex> a word sex?
[22:08] <Tm_T> the whole sentence, it is about sex as much as methodology
[22:09] <qqqalex> Sexism, a term coined in the mid-20th century, is the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to, less competent, or less valuable than the ...
[22:09] <qqqalex> now SEX, which is referred in the quote, is a completely different matter
[22:09] <qqqalex> but I guess it would be one of the touchy subjects to explain it here
[22:10] <qqqalex> sexist is to sex not what reddish is to red
[22:10] <Tm_T> I don't like this word play, and it isn't helping this matter
[22:11] <qqqalex> there might be 13y/olds on the channel as rules say, but I surely hope they dont moderate technical channels
[22:11] <qqqalex> its not play
[22:11] <qqqalex> wheres the play between sex and sexist?
[22:11] <qqqalex> for play there gotta be anything common bw them
[22:12] <qqqalex> and not words but concepts
[22:12] <qqqalex> so what exacly dont u like here?
[22:12] <Tm_T> it in whole
[22:12] <qqqalex> lol
[22:12] <qqqalex> like it smells fishy
[22:13] <qqqalex> Jon Stewart`s play of GWB is in place here
[22:13] <qqqalex> but I guess ur not a fan
[22:16] <qqqalex> I have totally no idea what u dont like here, but can u at least suggest any reason how is that all corresponds to the reason the channel rules were written in the 1st place
[22:16] <qqqalex> its called spirit of the law in the countries where people speak english as well as u do
[22:16] <Tm_T> english isn't my native language, btw
[22:17] <qqqalex> oh good for u, but rules are there to support the communication
[22:17] <qqqalex> and sexist jokes interfer because they make some of the sexes feel bad about it, which is ok
[22:18] <Tm_T> qqqalex: sex as a topic alone is nogo
[22:18] <qqqalex> not sure what u mean here, my point is that I said I behave meaning no more sexist jokes
[22:19] <maco> qqqalex: he means sex and sexism are both banned
[22:19] <qqqalex> and Leamer quote is not sexists, unless you will suggest that women do less of methodology
[22:19] <qqqalex> and also cucumbers?
[22:19] <qqqalex> because they look provocative?
[22:20] <Tm_T> qqqalex: you are not funny
[22:20] <qqqalex> and unisex clothes because it hinders natural beauty?
[22:20] <qqqalex> and we are not on a date :)
[22:20] <qqqalex> I mean I didnt even notice the word was in there
[22:20] <Tm_T> hmm, that is true, but we are trying to sort out a ban
[22:20] <qqqalex> not the word, but a root of it
[22:21] <qqqalex> cuz I was talking about unrelated issues
[22:21] <maco> qqqalex: do you understand that the point is "making sexist remarks is bad" AND "talking about sex is inappropriate" ?
[22:22] <qqqalex> yeah 2 perfectly valid separate points
[22:22] <maco> both of which factored into your ban, i take it
[22:22] <Tm_T> + the general attitude towards others
[22:22] <maco> i think Tm_T just wants you to acknowledge the validity of both statements and promise not to make more sexist remarks or talk about sex anymore
[22:23] <Tm_T> pretty much, and to understand rules (:
[22:23] <qqqalex> others whom? I wasnt even referring to anyone personally after saying I behave
[22:24] <qqqalex> and I can also ignore the letter S so my commitment not to use those words will be credible
[22:25] <qqqalex> as for acknowledging, I believe I quoted some of those myself even yesterday
[22:27] <Tm_T> why I feel you are not taking this seriously
[22:28] <qqqalex> taking what? Im an economist, Im trying to explain u I have no incentive to try and make fun out of someone being a female on one of those channels anymore
[22:28] <qqqalex> theres really no better way to achieve what you are getting at
[22:28] <maco> or to talk about sex? or to ignore people when they tell you to stop your behaviour?
[22:29] <mneptok> may i interject here?
[22:29] <Tm_T> or try to provoke others
[22:29] <Tm_T> mneptok: please do
[22:29] <mneptok> qqqalex: #ubuntu+1 is a support channel whose sole mission is to provide support for the next release of Ubuntu.
[22:30] <mneptok> qqqalex: jokes *of any kind* are not related to support.
[22:30] <mneptok> sexist or not.
 maco: or is your photo there just to make it all worthwhile?  <-- for the record, i dont think this was appropriate.  (was after i pointed to the guidelines)
[22:30] <qqqalex> well I wasnt even talking about sex, using the word doesnt make me talk about the notion, and wasnt ignoring anyone cuz couldnt imagine the guy would see the same thing in a different sentence, if he said it clearly and not "do u understand" wed sorted it right away
[22:31] <mneptok> qqqalex: any type of joke in +1 is off-topic for the channel. do you understand that?
[22:31] <mneptok> !o4o
[22:31] <qqqalex> and yeah prolly speaking here for half an hour should constitute provocation but what can I do
[22:32] <mneptok> as you see, "sexuality" is even considered off-topic for #ubuntu-offtopic. the entire subject is best avoided on any Ubuntu IRC channel.
[22:32] <qqqalex> wheres the joke thing there? Ok I wont joke
[22:32] <qqqalex> even if u made it up, I really dont care
[22:33] <mneptok> not caring about the Code Of Conduct and channel guidelines is not going to get the ban removed.
[22:33] <qqqalex> wheres no jokes allowed in coc?
[22:33] <mneptok> if your intention is to get the ban removed, i'd start taking this issue a bit more seriously.
[22:33] <qqqalex> and what I didnt care about beside that?
[22:34] <qqqalex> well almost an hour later it is also about getting to know about community
[22:34] <mneptok> the "no jokes" part is in the mission statement for #ubuntu+1. it's a support channel, not a general discussion channel.
[22:34] <qqqalex> selection effects, you know
[22:34] <qqqalex> wheres the mission? I love those things
[22:34] <mneptok> it's implied in the name of the channel
[22:35] <mneptok> !offtopic
[22:35] <qqqalex> jokes arent topics, but I wasnt doing a standup, really
[22:35] <mneptok> this is not up for debate.
[22:36] <maco> and for the record, if you do that in #ubuntu+1 you get:
 #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu.  Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support.  Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic.
[22:36] <qqqalex> and I dont debate this, I debate that name isnt a mission
[22:36] <mneptok> you get support in #ubuntu+1. not make jokes or engage in random banter. full stop.
[22:37] <qqqalex> ok I dont mind, didnt mean to say anything random although seen some ops points as not particularly deterministic, he didnt care to elaborate so I guess c`est la vie
[22:38] <mneptok> when asked to stop behavior, you stop. no matter who asks you. and you can come here and ask for clarification.
[22:38] <qqqalex> didnt know about this channel
[22:38] <qqqalex> Id totally come, feel so welcome here :)
[22:38] <mneptok> you could have always asked "is there a place we could discuss this issue without bothering others?"
[22:39] <qqqalex> well I didnt get why would he go on
[22:40] <mneptok> a total and complete understanding in not a prerquisite for following an op's requests.
[22:40] <qqqalex> couldnt imagine an unrelated issue will provoke him to lay his vengeance upon me
[22:40] <mneptok> s/in/is/
[22:40] <qqqalex> well he was asking for something
[22:41] <qqqalex> I had to get an idea of what he means to give him what he asks for, or it would constitute a disrespect
[22:42] <qqqalex> I mean, specifically
[22:42] <qqqalex> he says A is not ok, behave
[22:43] <ikonia> oh my god is this still going on
[22:43] <qqqalex> so I dont do A then he comes and repeats, behave
[22:43] <qqqalex> %D
[22:43] <qqqalex> turn off the plugin already
[22:44] <qqqalex> so he repeats behave, and Im not doing A already, so I ask him
[22:44] <mneptok> qqqalex: don't ask. just say, "understood. i have stopped."
[22:44] <qqqalex> you know, I see an implication in a phrase like A -> B
[22:45] <qqqalex> I think I did
[22:45] <qqqalex> I recall my last few words were directed at that point specifically
[22:46] <mneptok> well, TBH, thus far i have found you prone to comativeness and "reductio ad absurdum" arguments. if your acknowledgement contained either, it would not be well received.
[22:46] <mneptok> *combativeness
[22:47] <qqqalex> and since when are RAA arguments arent allowed?? Are you an inuitionist of mathematical sort?
[22:47] <qqqalex> logic does work like that
[22:48] <mneptok> the "ad absurdum" makes them a logical fallacy
[22:48] <qqqalex> well so far I was pointed to none of those in my speech
[22:49] <mneptok> i think you have just touched upon the crux of the issue.
[22:49] <qqqalex> meaning that if I used them, it was to make a point RAA helps with
[22:49] <mneptok> you have made a speech and made arguments. what you have not done effectively, IMO, is *listen*.
[22:50] <qqqalex> lol so what, understand. I behave. is for +1, you said u are up to sort the issue or smth
[22:50] <mneptok> why not take a deep breath, /part this channel for 24h, read the log carefully to uderstand the guidelines and behavior we expect, and return tomorrow and start afresh?
[22:51] <mneptok> honestly, i think that's the quickest way to get yourself unbanned. nerves are frayed, and patience is thin at this point.
[22:51] <mneptok> both on your part and for people discussing this issue with you.
[22:52] <mneptok> also, i *really* need a shower. i smell like kimchee and the grave.
[22:52] <qqqalex> well u get your own deep breath, esp if ur nerves are frayed, if its a valid language then u make no sense whatsoever
[22:52] <qqqalex> sorry about that, hope it wasnt my fault too
[22:53] <mneptok> so let's discuss this tomorrow, mmmkay?
[22:53] <maco> kimchee is a cabbage-based korean condiment, if that's the linguistically confusing part
[22:53] <qqqalex> yet I wont really waste a day without a working laptop cuz a bunch of guys thinks it proves a point if they say just shutup and behave
[22:53] <qqqalex> as I said, I move to launchpad and forums for a mutual destruction of value
[22:54] <maco> iirc your issue was that 2.30 wasnt done uploading
[22:54] <qqqalex> cuz I dont even know how to create a user
[22:54] <maco> ive heard nobody say its done yet, so you probably are still stuck in the waiting game
[22:54] <qqqalex> yeah but xfce doesnt work either
[22:54] <maco> man adduser
[22:54] <mneptok> this is not a support channel, folks.
[22:54] <maco> also learn about "man -k" it lets you search the manpages. if you know that you can do anything ;-)
[22:54] <qqqalex> yeah Ive gotten to it yesterday in +1
[22:54] <maco> ok then have fun
[22:55] <qqqalex> and yeah I indeed can do anything, but its helluva task to do it from a netbook
[22:55] <mneptok> qqqalex: please read the /topic of this channel. we do not allow idling. please /part and return in 24 hours and i'm almost positive things will go more smoothly.
[22:55] <qqqalex> I cant even scroll the output
[22:56] <qqqalex> well cheers
[22:56] <Tm_T> mneptok: thank you, my brain has been all fuzz and buzz today
[22:56]  * mneptok bows
[22:57] <maco> i still want to know A) why he hoped im a dude and B) what the heck "never seen a female that would be touched by gender talk near a PC but ok :)" means
[22:57] <Tm_T> now I can go to sleep, good night everyone and pleasant staying in this thing called IRC
[22:58] <mneptok> maco: i kinda hope you're a dude. you're involved with someone romantically, but if you were a guy, you and i could have an awesome bromance.
[22:58]  * mneptok waits for maco to return from the retching fit
[22:59] <ikonia> ha ha
[23:01]  * maco ignores
[23:06] <genii> Man. It's goten unnerving strange in here lately
[23:06]  * genii makes more coffee
[23:10] <maco> genii:hmmm?
[23:10] <maco> i think this is just mneptok going back to his old self
[23:10] <genii> maco: Bromances and retching fits, etc
[23:11] <maco> right so... normal mneptok
[23:11] <genii> Heh
[23:11] <mneptok> after taking the role of calm, rational voice, i feel a bit out of sorts.
[23:12] <maco> ok so im looking at a cooking store catalogue and there's some bit about making filled pancakes. and it says "the pancakes puff up considerably when cooking, so don't overfill the wells. to flip the pancakes over, use our ebelskiver turning tools or wooden skewers" and im looking at this picture thinking "that looks like someone holding chopsticks wrong" (they have 1 wooden stick in each hand)
[23:12] <maco> (apparently ebelskiver is a danish pancake with stuff in the middle)
[23:32] <mneptok> usually pickled herring
[23:33]  * genii nibbles on some pickled hering
[23:33] <genii> *herring
[23:38] <mneptok> blend it into a slurry and add it to some Colombian arabica
[23:43] <genii> My doc already warned me to lay off the caffeine because it's causing my heart to do things like fluttering. But I like to eat my pickled herring
[23:49] <KB1JWQ> genii: I quieted him when he started back in.
[23:49] <KB1JWQ> Feel free to remove that, it's a ten minute temp.
[23:49] <genii> KB1JWQ: OK, thanks


[00:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-cattrs [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [1.9.0-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted php-mock [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [2.3.0-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libpktriggercord [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.85.1-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnunet [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [0.15.3-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfishcamp [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [1.1-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libinovasdk [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [1.3.6-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted php-malkusch-lock [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [2.2+ds.1-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted php-mock-phpunit [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [2.6.0-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted indi-gphoto [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [3.0-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-2]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libham-locator-perl [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1000-1]
[00:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted php-mock-integration [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [2.1.0-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnunet [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.15.3-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnunet [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [0.15.3-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-is-redirect [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnunet [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [0.15.3-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnunet [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [0.15.3-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-1]
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted memory-allocator [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.2-1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fwupd-efi [sync] (jammy-proposed) [1:1.1-1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [amd64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [armhf] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [riscv64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-text-editor [sync] (jammy-proposed) [41.1-1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libloki [s390x] (jammy-proposed) [0.1.7-5ubuntu1]
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: graphql-core [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.3.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/none) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [arm64] (jammy-proposed/none) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [armhf] (jammy-proposed/none) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [s390x] (jammy-proposed/none) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[06:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-text-editor [riscv64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [41.1-1] (no packageset)
[07:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sagemath [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [9.4-1] (no packageset)
[11:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: slic3r-prusa [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.4.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[11:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: slic3r-prusa [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.4.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[11:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: slic3r-prusa [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.4.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[13:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: slic3r-prusa [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.4.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[13:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: slic3r-prusa [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.4.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[13:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sagemath [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [9.4-1] (no packageset)
[17:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[17:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[17:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[17:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[17:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[18:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fastdds [riscv64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.5.0+ds-3] (no packageset)
[20:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[20:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[20:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[20:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[20:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[21:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[21:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[21:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[21:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[21:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[21:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wlroots [riscv64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-5] (no packageset)
[22:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: clisp [riscv64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1:2.49.20210628.gitde01f0f-2] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: indi-fishcamp [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-derive-arbitrary [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.0.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk3-macros [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [0.14.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-tree-sitter-highlight [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [0.20.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: php-laravel-framework [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [6.20.14+dfsg-3] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-nb-connect [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-fasteval [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [0.2.4-1] (no packageset)
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-waker-fn [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-glib-macros [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [0.14.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-tree-sitter-tags [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [0.20.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: indi-inovaplx [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.4-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-cache-padded [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk4-macros [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.3.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-shellexpand [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-xxhash-rust [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.8.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: zutty [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.10.20211016.133334+dfsg1-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-arbitrary [amd64] (jammy-proposed/none) [1.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-polling [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sedparse [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-dbus-tree [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.9.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-time-0.1 [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.1.44-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-arbitrary [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-cache-padded [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-derive-arbitrary [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wolfssl [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-blake2b-simd [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-parking [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-dbus-tree [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.9.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-riskregression [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2021.10.10+ds-2] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-blake2b-simd [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-fasteval [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.2.4-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wolfssl [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-arbitrary [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-proton-call [amd64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [3.0.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-cache-padded [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-riskregression [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2021.10.10+ds-2] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-parking [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk3-macros [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wolfssl [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-derive-arbitrary [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk3-macros [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-glib-macros [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.14.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-riskregression [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2021.10.10+ds-2] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-arbitrary [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-dbus-tree [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.9.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk4-macros [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.3.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-nb-connect [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-shellexpand [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-arbitrary [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gtk4-macros [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.3.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-polling [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-blake2b-simd [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-nb-connect [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-blake2b-simd [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-proton-call [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [3.0.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-tree-sitter-highlight [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.20.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-xxhash-rust [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.8.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-parking [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-waker-fn [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-time-0.1 [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.1.44-1] (no packageset)
[23:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: zutty [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.10.20211016.133334+dfsg1-1] (no packageset)
[23:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: indi-fishcamp [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/multiverse) [1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-parse-zoneinfo [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.3.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-tree-sitter-tags [ppc64el] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.20.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-cache-padded [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-polling [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.2.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-cache-padded [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-proton-call [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [3.0.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-time-0.1 [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.1.44-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wolfssl [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-dbus-tree [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.9.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: wolfssl [arm64] (jammy-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-shellexpand [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [2.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-dbus-tree [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.9.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-derive-arbitrary [armhf] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-1] (no packageset)
[23:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-tree-sitter-highlight [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.20.1-1] (no packageset)
[23:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-waker-fn [s390x] (jammy-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
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  I dislike DST
[18:03] <mdeslaur> It doesn't save me a thing
[18:03] <kees> yeah
[18:03] <kees> okay, starting...
[18:04] <kees> I'm a day behind on triage -- I'll do a bug and CVE run this morning.  over the weekend I worked on trying to reproduce the weirdness we've seen with AppArmor kernel memory
[18:04] <mdeslaur> kees: too late, I've done it already
[18:05] <kees> mdeslaur: you did the CVEs?  you're fast!
[18:05] <mdeslaur> kees: east coast ftw
[18:05] <jdstrand> totally :)
[18:05] <kees> heh
[18:05] <kees> well, let me do the 27 bugs that're New.  At least two are embargoed issues I need to submit.
[18:06] <kees> which brings me to publications -- I'll be doing a number of embargoed publications for things this week.
[18:06] <kees> and finding syncs etc.
[18:06] <mdeslaur> syncs?
[18:06] <kees> no real news, but we should think about anything we want to put in the monthly report
[18:06] <kees> mdeslaur: fake-syncs from Debian
[18:06] <mdeslaur> oh!
[18:07] <kees> and we should start brain-storming for UDS
[18:07] <kees> we've got our very own track again.  :)
[18:07] <jdstrand> kees: re syncs> fyi, check later in the week, we should be up to date as of friday)
[18:07] <kees> jdstrand: yeah, you're all too fast for me.  :)
[18:08] <kees> I think that's it.  I might be trying to chase down beta-bugs (raid1 installs, kernel IO, aa memory, etc)
[18:08] <jdstrand> well, I did it on Friday. one could say I was too slow... I'll take the praise though
[18:08]  * mdeslaur sends some praise to jdstrand
[18:09] <kees> heh
[18:09] <kees> mdeslaur: is up
[18:09] <jdstrand> maybe not 'too' slow, since it was within the allotted time, but slow nonetheless ;)
[18:09] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: :)
[18:09] <nxvl> kees: they are making you look slower...
[18:09]  * kees cries
[18:09] <jdstrand> oh no!
[18:09] <mdeslaur> I'll take a look at the openssl issues this week.
[18:09] <mdeslaur> I'm also on triage, so I'll be doing that also
[18:09] <jdstrand> kees does great things all the time that we aren't talking about right here :)
[18:10] <mdeslaur> and I'll take a look at Lucid cves to make sure we're all caught up
[18:10] <kees> hehe
[18:10] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: +1
[18:10] <kees> oh yeah, we should start walking the "almost released" checklist too
[18:10] <kees> it's a bit confused what with 2 betas, but still.
[18:11]  * jdstrand was just thinking the same thing
[18:11] <mdeslaur> I also want to document the actions/rights permissions in Ubuntu
[18:13] <kees> mdeslaur: oh! yeah, that's really cool.  I'm looking forward to that.
[18:15] <kees> mdeslaur:
[18:15] <kees> er
[18:15] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: shall I go?
[18:15] <kees> you done?
[18:15] <mdeslaur> oh sorry
[18:15] <mdeslaur> yes :)
[18:15] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:15] <mdeslaur> got my foot stuck in the email trap :)
[18:15] <kees> heh
[18:16] <nxvl> evil e-mail trap
[18:16] <jdstrand> ok, I'm happy place this week. I plan to pull the lever on clamav/dapper, have an erlang update, an embargoed update, a moin merge (for security update in lucid) and a little more work on apparmor-notify
[18:17] <jdstrand> apparmor-notify wasn't dealing with log rotation-- I fixed that for kern.log over the weekend, but need to fix it for when it drops privs (ie auditd)
[18:17] <kees> jdstrand: oh, I've disabled parallel profile loading for now since it makes the AA memory-pressure thing worse.  haven't uploaded it though, but it is tested.
[18:18] <jdstrand> kees: cool-- I turned on apparmor-notify too. so let's coordinate before the other wants to upload
[18:18] <jdstrand> (apparmor-notify is not installed by default and in universe, so this way, installing it will enable it)
[18:18] <jjohansen> \o/
[18:19] <kees> jdstrand: I'll put it in your court -- if you're ready to upload, go for it.  I'm set, but I'm not uploading it for a bit since jj and I are still mucking around with test kernels and stuff
[18:19] <jdstrand> we probably need to discuss whether to disable apparmor-notify before release, but me feeling is probably no, since it is opt-in at present
[18:19] <jdstrand> kees: ack
[18:19]  * kees agrees
[18:19] <jdstrand> ok
[18:19] <jdstrand> all that was the 'little stuff' for the week
[18:19] <mdeslaur> If the package doesn't get installed by default, it can be turned on by default
[18:19] <mdeslaur> +1 form me
[18:19] <jdstrand> my big effort is to fix my last 3 blueprint items for libvirt
[18:20] <jdstrand> due to upstream changes, just getting a newer version to run with apparmor took some work last week. I now have a merge of 0.7.7-4 (from Debian) that works
[18:20] <jdstrand> plan is to upstream my stuff and then to 0.7.7-4
[18:21] <jdstrand> I suggested that the server team consider my merge for lucid
[18:21] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: you want to get 0.7.7 in?
[18:21] <jdstrand> (see email in ubuntu-server@)
[18:21] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: that may require virtinst and possible virt-manager
[18:21] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: I do, but it is up to ubuntu-server
[18:21] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: I'm pretty sure it will work better with virt-manager, since you have such a newer version in lucid iirc
[18:22] <mdeslaur> the dependencies between those components are unclear to me
[18:22] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: the merge is in my ppa, please feel free to play with it, but read my email in ubuntu-server
[18:23] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: I did read your mail....and I freaked out about the "libvirt chown's the disk files to root:root for people using qemu:///system." part
[18:23] <jdstrand> I will be working with kirkland one day this week to verify it is ok. if they accept it, then I won't have to backport my patches to 0.7.5 (what is currently in lucid). otherwise, I will
[18:23] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: yeah-- I didn't much like that either :(
[18:24] <mdeslaur> "How to become root in 3 easy steps..."
[18:24] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: it seems it is part of the DAC security driver work from upstream
[18:25] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: well, if you are in the libvirtd group (ie can use qemu:///system), you have root (though not trivially)
[18:25] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: that has always been the case (see README.Debian in lucid's libvirt)
[18:26] <jdstrand> anyway, that chown thing needs to be looked at more/fixed, probably by the server team
[18:27] <jdstrand> that is it from me, though I have two items to discuss
[18:27] <mdeslaur> shoot
[18:28] <jdstrand> ok. I'm not totally satisfied with universe triage
[18:29] <kees> it's a wasteland :(
[18:29] <jdstrand> while we deal with supported packages and the community is supposed to triage universe stuff, it doesn't happen
[18:29]  * jdstrand nods
[18:29] <jdstrand> now that people are starting to discover and write about UCT, maybe there are little things we can do to at least improve the situation somewhat
[18:30] <jdstrand> I thought of two things, neither of which are perfect, but both will help some
[18:30] <jdstrand> a) unconditionally use the version mentioned in MITRE's CVE (when available) as 'upstream: release (...)'
[18:31] <mdeslaur> ugh
[18:31] <jdstrand> we can then have automation to check Ubuntu versions and mark then 'not-affected' with all others as 'needed'
[18:31] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: hold on a sec-- I'll justify this in a moment ;)
[18:31] <mdeslaur> ok :)
[18:33] <jdstrand> b) we (manually) check Debian for a fixed version and add it to upstream: released (...) through automation of some sort, and then adjust not-affected releases
[18:34] <jdstrand> ok. I totally admit that this is imperfect-- MITRE gets the versions wrong sometimes (and we would have to figure out how to deal with when they take a vendor's version and say it is affected)
[18:34] <kees> so, I already do "a" but only when the wording from Mitre is specific.  I.e. "Foo before version XYZ, is vuln..." rather than "Foo version XYZ in vuln"
[18:34] <kees> their "before version XYZ" tends to be triggered by upstreams claiming to fix stuff.
[18:34] <jdstrand> that said-- I think that putting something in there that is accurate most of the time is better than nothing in there. we/community members can adjust the CVEs as needed
[18:35] <kees> for "b" we need the changelog-CVE-scanner back online.
[18:35] <kees> when Debian fixes stuff, I'll use a debian version for the upstream: released line
[18:35] <jdstrand> kees: well, 'b' doen't have to be automatic, but it would be nice if it was
[18:35] <kees> right.
[18:35] <jdstrand> kees: re Debian version> right, so do I
[18:35] <kees> I think the big thing to help with visibility is getting cve-tracker mirrored into LP.
[18:36] <jdstrand> and when I do fake syncs I update the CVEs that they fix
[18:36] <kees> unfortunately, that's still stuck on bug 314432
[18:36] <jdstrand> I don't think as a team we do 'a' consistently
[18:36] <jdstrand> ie, there are a gagillion 'needs-triage'
[18:37] <mdeslaur> I don't do 'a', as I don't like marking things "not-affected" when the code hasn't been looked at
[18:37] <jdstrand> kees: agreed on that
[18:37] <kees> that's possible about "a".  I tend to do it, but I've found it somewhat rare for Mitre to say "before version X.Y.Z"
[18:37] <mdeslaur> too often I've seen it not fixed in the version that mitre has there
[18:37] <mdeslaur> I've been burned by that before
[18:37] <jdstrand> I see 1.6.x before 1.6.2 all the time
[18:37] <mdeslaur> and false negatives are a lot worse than false positives
[18:38] <kees> mdeslaur: oh, for those I don't mark 1.5.x not-affected.  I _really_ don't trust that.
[18:38] <jdstrand> and sure, it will have errors. but is having nothing better? maybe it is, but I think not
[18:38] <kees> I feel like forward-versions are safe.
[18:38] <mdeslaur> so you guys just mark the "upstream" line with a version?
[18:38] <jdstrand> I was talking about forward versions.
[18:38] <jdstrand> eg, 1.5.2 is fixed. therefore 1.5.3 is fixed
[18:38] <mdeslaur> what are "forward versions"?
[18:39] <mdeslaur> so you _do_ mark 1.5.3 as not-affected
[18:39] <kees> while it's sometimes wrong, most times it's correct for "it has been fixed in version X.Y.Z"  but I always leave stuff older (even unmentioned earlier release series) as needs-triage
[18:39] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: I'm proposing we do that for universe, yes
[18:40] <mdeslaur> ok, from now on, "in xyz before 1.5.3", we mark upstream as 1.5.3, and anything we have that's 1.5.3 and more recent, we mark as not-affected?
[18:40] <jdstrand> if nothing else, I think it would be a good start to formalize how we should triage these
[18:40] <kees> mdeslaur: if I see Mitre say "Foo 1.3.x before version 1.3.7 is vulnerable..."  I will mark 1.3.7 and later in the 1.3.x series as fixed, but any other versions needs-triage (i.e. 1.4.x 1.2.x)
[18:40] <jdstrand> then maybe from there, we can automate
[18:41] <kees> scripts/sync-from-versions already auto-closes stuff in the devel release if it's higher than the upstream: released version
[18:41] <mdeslaur> should we be more vigilant when the cves-run updates descriptions?
[18:41] <kees> oh, that's a good point -- I never adjust triaging from updated descriptions.
[18:41] <mdeslaur> when/who runs sync-from-versions?
[18:41] <jdstrand> I don't
[18:41] <kees> I run sync-from-versions any time I'm on triage or run sync-from-usns
[18:42] <kees> it intentionally only closes devel.
[18:42] <jdstrand> wait-- I don't sync-from-versions. I do adjust triaging from updated descriptions
[18:42] <mdeslaur> hahaha
[18:42] <mdeslaur> I don't run sync-from-versions, I don't adjust triaging from updated descriptions
[18:42] <jdstrand> heh
[18:43] <mdeslaur> and I've hit wrong "before 1.x.x" in descriptions on almost all mysql cves
[18:43] <jdstrand> well, technically, I referring to community stuff here, so it isn't horrible that we do different things
[18:43] <jdstrand> I really just want to identify if we can standardize it and see if after that we can do some things automatically
[18:43] <kees> mdeslaur: sure, I will take exception with "known poorly triaged" software.  the kernel, firefox, and mysql jump to mind.
[18:44] <jdstrand> all of those are not community supported
[18:44] <jdstrand> I am *only* talking about universe/multiverse
[18:44] <mdeslaur> so, what's the ultimate goal here? to get rid of universe CVEs automatically when old distros get retired?
[18:44] <kees> the policy I've been working under has been that universe stuff is marked as not-affected if it is the most recent series, and mitre says "before [version-from-that-series]"
[18:44] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: that already happens
[18:45] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: we do a big EOL thingamajig
[18:45] <kees> mdeslaur: to keep the devel release of ubuntu up to date as new versions of software land in the archive.
[18:45] <jdstrand> kees: I do that
[18:46] <jdstrand> what I used to do differently is that I would mark versions under that as 'needed'
[18:46] <kees> for that series, yeah, I'd do the same.
[18:46] <jdstrand> (being careful of multiple branches)
[18:46] <jdstrand> however, lately I've noticed mdeslaur doing those as needs-triage, and I've fallen into that myself
[18:47] <jdstrand> and by lately, I mean the last 6 months or so (roughly)
[18:47] <kees> i.e. if we have 1.2.4, 1.3.2, 1.3.3, 1.4.0, and mitre says "before 1.3.3", I would marked: 1.2.4: needs-triage, 1.3.2: needed, 1.3.3: not-affected, 1.4.0: needs-triage
[18:47] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: so you would blindly mark them as "needed" without actually looking at them?
[18:47] <jdstrand> kees: I like that
[18:47] <kees> sorry, "1.3.x before 1.3.3"
[18:47] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: for *universe*, I would do as kees said, yes
[18:47] <kees> if it said just "before 1.3.3", I'd mark 1.2.4 as needed too
[18:48] <jdstrand> right
[18:48] <jdstrand> I'd like to get back to that, and hopefully automate it, if possible
[18:48] <jdstrand> if not automate, the script it
[18:48] <mdeslaur> ok, I don't mind doing that
[18:48] <mdeslaur> although, I don't know what it will gain us
[18:48] <mdeslaur> but, I can do it
[18:48] <jdstrand> I think overall it will gain us more accuracy
[18:49] <jdstrand> (granted, not 100%)
[18:49] <mdeslaur> more completed, but less accurate :P
[18:49] <kees> accuracy by way of less bit-rot as we move forward in time.
[18:49] <jdstrand> I also think that if UCT says it is affected, then someone will be more likely to fix it
[18:49] <kees> i.e. filling in upstream: released future-proofs us a bit
[18:50] <mdeslaur> kees: okay, that sounds valid
[18:50] <jdstrand> practically speaking, if it says 'needs-triage', community people aren't going to look at it. if it says it is needed, then we have a chance
[18:50]  * kees nods
[18:51] <mdeslaur> well then we should change them all to needed :)
[18:51] <jdstrand> which is what I tried to get at with 'accuracy'
[18:51] <mdeslaur> ok, fair enough, so 1.2.x is needs-triage, 1.3.x is needed, 1.4.x is not-affected
[18:52] <jdstrand> (ie, needs-triage translates to 'not-affected' or 'ignored' to community folk)
[18:52] <mdeslaur> It may be worth spending a day or two to go through all the universe CVEs and actually retire a slew of them
[18:52] <mdeslaur> ie: a one-time thing
[18:52] <mdeslaur> I wouldn't mind doing that
[18:52] <kees> I wonder if we should use a UDS slot for a mass-ancient-CVE-triage-jam
[18:52] <jdstrand> as in, follow our new procedure for what is in there?
[18:53] <jdong> well what about a context with a prize for the most RMS-worthy beard?
[18:53] <jdong> errrr
[18:53] <jdong> wrong channel
[18:53] <mdeslaur> jdong: lol
[18:53] <jdstrand> I would say so ;)
[18:53] <jdong> hahaha
[18:53] <kees> omg, thank goodness because my eyes just about popped out of my head trying to jam that into context
[18:53] <jdong> new theme and active window border contrast.
[18:53] <jdong> grumble XD
[18:53] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: I would like to spend a few hours and triage the universe CVEs to get rid of half of them
[18:54] <kees> mdeslaur: do you think there are a lot that will fall into this?
[18:54] <mdeslaur> it may be easier to get some community help if we didn't have CVE-2006 stuff in there
[18:54] <mdeslaur> kees: yes, I think so
[18:54] <jdstrand> I brought this up once before, I think that as far as UCT is concerned, we should treat all universe CVEs as non-LTS
[18:54] <jdstrand> ie, dapper/universe becomes 'ignored'
[18:55] <kees> mdeslaur: well, since you're the most sceptical of this plan, I think you're the right person to do it.  :)  I don't want to get too aggressive with it, as you said, since I don't want to start losing accuracy
[18:55] <jdstrand> then people can triage them away from ignored if they want to maintain it
[18:55] <kees> jdstrand: I disagreed with you at the time, but after a few months of messing with dapper and triage, I'm convinced.
[18:55] <mdeslaur> I'm convinced also
[18:55] <mdeslaur> dapper universe = ignored
[18:56] <kees> +1
[18:56] <jdstrand> +1
[18:56] <kees> ship it! :)
[18:56] <mdeslaur> +7
[18:56] <kees> hehe
[18:56] <jdstrand> what about hardy?
[18:56] <kees> 9 votes for!
[18:56] <jdstrand> intrepid is eol on april 30th
[18:56] <kees> jdstrand: hardy isn't eol yet
[18:56] <kees> jdstrand: you must have meant something I misunderstood :)
[18:57] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: when hardy goes eol on the desktop, we should do the same
[18:57] <jdstrand> kees: if universe != LTS, then hardy/universe is EOL
[18:57]  * kees agrees.  I think it's a fine policy
[18:57] <mdeslaur> oh, hmm
[18:57] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: kde in hardy is not LTS
[18:57] <kees> jdstrand: oh! er, I understood that the way mdeslaur just said it: once desktop is EOL, then treat universe as ignored for an LTS
[18:57] <jdstrand> kees: that was most of what I was saying
[18:58] <jdstrand> however, it gets tricky with LTS
[18:58] <mdeslaur> I would rather wait for desktop to get EOL
[18:58] <jdstrand> (which is a subset of what I was getting at)
[18:58] <kees> right, so let's treat universe like desktop as far as CVE tracking goes
[18:58] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: which desktop? gnome, kde, xfce? :P
[18:58] <kees> desktop==gnome
[18:58] <mdeslaur> what's "kde" and "xfce"?
[18:58] <kees> heh
[18:58] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:58]  * mdeslaur slaps himself for saying that out loud
[18:59] <mdeslaur> we love kde
[18:59] <jdstrand> I'm fine with universe -> ignored on LTS after 3 years
[18:59] <kees> I think for triage, we should extend universe triage to match the "desktop" lifetime.
[18:59] <jdstrand> however, I think 'ignored' is more accurate
[19:00] <mdeslaur> and people can still submit debdiffs on server stuff, which we'll sponsor until the server goes EOL
[19:00] <jdstrand> (since it really is being ignored by far most of the time)
[19:00] <jdstrand> shoot, I'll sponsor *anything* if it is ok
[19:00] <kees> heh
[19:01] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: cool, I've got a gutsy open-jdk debdiff for you to review
[19:01] <kees> right, "ignored" matches the reality of it most closely.
[19:01] <mdeslaur> not
[19:01] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: that's not ok :P
[19:01] <kees> heh
[19:01] <kees> you've gone TOO FAR!  :)
[19:01] <jdstrand> hehe
[19:02] <jdstrand> let's summarize our discussion (I'll do it)
[19:02] <kees> jdstrand: here or offline?
[19:03] <kees> jdstrand: it should probably get reflected in the UCT README too
[19:03] <jdstrand> 1. universe CVEs for eol released should follow the eol for the release (ie desktop/universe is 3 years for LTS, 5 years for server/universe, and 18 months everywhere else
[19:03] <mdeslaur> kees: is there a script to set dapper universe to ignored?
[19:03] <jdstrand> kees: gosh, here-- anyone reading this will need it! :)
[19:03] <kees> jdstrand: heh yeah
[19:04] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: no, server/universe should be 3 years for LTS
[19:04] <kees> mdeslaur typed it faster
[19:04] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: we don't have a way of separating desktop from server in universe
[19:04] <kees> right
[19:04] <mdeslaur> unless someone wants to volunteer, in which case we can revert
[19:04] <kees> 1. universe CVEs for eol released should follow the eol for the release (ie desktop/universe is 3 years for LTS, 5 years for server)
[19:04] <mdeslaur> (volunteer to figure out the seeds)
[19:05] <jdstrand> 2. look carefully at MITRE versions. if it has a 'fixed in' or less than, adjust 'upstream' field accordingly. mark later versions as 'not-affected' and earlier as 'needed. be careful and leaves as 'needs-triage' if status is not clear for multiple branches (ie 1.2 vs 1.4)
[19:05] <kees> er, now we need a summary of the summary
[19:05] <mdeslaur> lol
[19:05] <kees> 2: +1
[19:05] <mdeslaur> 2: approved
[19:05] <jdstrand> 3. use Debian version as 'upstream: released' whenever possible
[19:06] <kees> 3: use Upstream version as 'upstream: released' whenever possible, but it's okay to use Debian versions too.
[19:06] <jdstrand> kees' resummary of '1': +1
[19:06] <kees> i.e. prefer Upstream over Debian, but don't be shy of Debian versions.
[19:06] <jdstrand> hmm
[19:06] <mdeslaur> kees: why prefer upstream?
[19:06] <jdstrand> ah, I didn't get to add a thought I had
[19:06] <kees> mdeslaur: because it more directly tracks to real fixes in the future.
[19:07] <jdstrand> 'upstream' can have multiple releases in it
[19:07] <jdstrand> eg:
[19:07] <kees> i.e. if 1.3.4 is fixed.  1.3.4-32940 will be fixed too
[19:07] <jdstrand> upstream: released (1.2.6, 1.4.0rc1)
[19:07] <mdeslaur> ok, I don't have a preference there
[19:07] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: won't that break scripts?
[19:07] <kees> jdstrand: yeah, we skipped that a bit.  I'm not sure how to handle it.  sync-from-versions skips anything with a comma in it.
[19:07] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: it is already supported
[19:07] <kees> is it?
[19:07] <jdstrand> oh, err
[19:08] <mdeslaur> I did not know that!</carson>
[19:08] <jdstrand> well, I can't speak to sync-from-versions
[19:08] <jdstrand> I don't use it-- multiple versions works in other places
[19:08] <kees> we could add the seris logic to sync-from-versions
[19:08] <jdstrand> (and there are plenty of examples in UCT)
[19:09] <jdstrand> ok, on '3': use Debian version as 'upstream: released (<debian version>)' where appropriate
[19:09] <kees> jdstrand: why prefer Debian over Upstream?
[19:10] <jdstrand> though in the past, if I have a choice between 1.2.3-1 and 1.2.3, I chose 1.2.3-1 every time
[19:10] <kees> that'll miss 1.2.3-0ubuntu1
[19:10] <jdstrand> kees: my resummary of '3' intended to not prefer Debian 'ie 'as appropriate')
[19:10] <kees> which is why I like Upstream
[19:11] <mdeslaur> How about debian if it's a version lower than upstream?
[19:11] <mdeslaur> ie: Upstream: 1.2.3, Debian: 1.2.2-14, prefer debian
[19:11] <jdstrand> kees: yes, but when I have done that I have looked at the version in lucid). I'm convinced though
[19:11] <jdstrand> reresummary:
[19:12] <jdstrand> 3. prefer prefer upstream version to Debian version in 'upstream', except where it is fixed in Debian and no info on upstream version is available
[19:12] <jdstrand> s/prefer//
[19:12] <kees> mdeslaur: yeah, that's cool; that's basically how it works out.  usually I use a Debian version if it says "broken in 1.2.3" (i.e. no upstream fix yet) and Debian has released 1.2.3-2 with a patch.
[19:12] <kees> 3: +1
[19:12]  * jdstrand nods
[19:13] <jdstrand> alright, I'll add all this to UCT/README and we can finetune from there. I think this has taken enough time
[19:14] <jdstrand> I have one other item that won't be nearly as contentious :)
[19:14] <kees> ready!
[19:14] <mdeslaur> just so we can get started, kees: is there a script that can mark dapper universe as ignored?
[19:14] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: shoot
[19:14] <kees> mdeslaur: there's a commandline, one sec
[19:14] <jdstrand> isn't that in UCT/README already?
[19:14] <kees> jdstrand: yeah
[19:14] <kees> mdeslaur: it's under "Stable Release Actions"
[19:14] <kees> adjust devel_ to dapper, etc
[19:15] <jdstrand> in lucid, apt is frustrating for me
[19:15] <kees> wait, sync-from-eol.py ?
[19:15]  * jdstrand waits on changing the subject
[19:15] <kees> mdeslaur: yes! check sync-from-eol.py -- it'll need adjustment
[19:16] <mdeslaur> ok, thanks
[19:16] <mdeslaur> I'll take a look
[19:16] <kees> okay, I'm ready for subject change
[19:16] <jdstrand> well, now I have a question on the last thing
[19:16] <jdstrand> what are we changing dapper/universe to? eg:
[19:17] <jdstrand> dapper_foo: needed -> dapper_foo: ignored (reached end-of-life)?
[19:17] <mdeslaur> sync-from-eol isn't mentioned in README
[19:17] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: there is an 'End of Life' section in README
[19:17] <jdstrand> it may need to be adjusted
[19:18] <mdeslaur> ok, I'll check it out
[19:19] <jdstrand> 13:16 < jdstrand> what are we changing dapper/universe to? eg:
[19:19] <jdstrand> 13:17 < jdstrand> dapper_foo: needed -> dapper_foo: ignored (reached  end-of-life)?
[19:19] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ^
[19:19] <mdeslaur> well, I wouldn't put "end-of-life" there
[19:19] <kees> jdstrand: yup, agreed.  ignored (reached end-of-life)
[19:19] <kees> oh
[19:19] <mdeslaur> I'd just set it to "ignored"
[19:19] <mdeslaur> technically, server packages in universe are not end-of-life
[19:20] <kees> sync-from-eol.py sets it to "ignored (EOL)"
[19:20] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: why? we've done '(reached end-of-life)' in the past for supported?
[19:20] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: not sure what you mean by that
[19:21] <jdstrand> kees: I think if we state the reason, we should use '(reached end-of-life)' instead of '(EOL)'. less jargony
[19:21] <kees> jdstrand: +1
[19:21] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you want 'ignored'. I want 'ignored (reached end-of-life)'. why do you prefer yours over mine?
[19:21] <mdeslaur> on dapper, server packages in universe are not technically end of life
[19:22] <jdstrand> I now of only one that receives regular support: clamav
[19:22] <jdstrand> s/now/know/
[19:22] <jdstrand> I think 'ignored' will make people go, 'why?'
[19:23] <kees> mdeslaur: that was my original objection, but I gave in since "ignored" matches reality for it.
[19:23] <mdeslaur> hmm
[19:23] <jdstrand> we/the community can triage/retriage away from ignored if desired
[19:23] <mdeslaur> let me think a sec
[19:23] <jdstrand> this isn't set in stone or anything
[19:23]  * mdeslaur smells burning
[19:24] <jdstrand> we run sync-from-eol only once per cycle
[19:24] <mdeslaur> ok, I accept
[19:24] <mdeslaur> EOL it is
[19:24] <mdeslaur> +1
[19:24] <jdstrand> we can adjust boilerplate to ignore dapper/universe but we always have the opportunity to edit it
[19:25] <jdstrand> ok cool
[19:25] <jdstrand> so, now we are ready for my next item?
[19:25] <mdeslaur> yes!
[19:25] <jdstrand> ok
[19:25] <jdstrand> apt is frustrating to me in lucid because it tries to be too smart. maybe I am doing things wrong, but when I do this:
[19:26] <jdstrand> apt-get source foo=<earlier version than latest>
[19:26] <jdstrand> it will often (though not always) grab the latest version
[19:26] <kees> jdstrand: yes, drives me insane.
[19:26] <jdstrand> adjusting the ordering of sources.list can help somewhat, but not totally
[19:27] <jdstrand> fake-security-sync is basically broken until you hack your sources.list
[19:27] <kees> jdstrand: I worked around it with: $UST/package-tools/u-getsrc
[19:27]  * jdstrand goes to look
[19:28] <mdeslaur> is there a bug open for that issue?
[19:28] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: it is by design
[19:28] <jdstrand> it is so you can do things like:
[19:28] <jdstrand> deb http://localmirror/...
[19:28] <jdstrand> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/...
[19:28] <kees> jdstrand: oh, perhaps it's just the addition of --only-source that fixes it?
[19:29] <jdstrand> it will get from the local mirro runless a newer version is in archive.ubuntu.com
[19:29] <mdeslaur> how the heck can that be by design if you specify a version
[19:29] <jdstrand> kees: I was going to ask about that-- it is in no way clear to me why u-getsrc works better
[19:29] <mdeslaur> the design is wrong :P
[19:29] <kees> jdstrand: can you reproduce this?  I don't see this problem.
[19:30] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh yes-- the changes are by design, this issue may not be and may be a bug (sorry)
[19:30] <jdstrand> kees: if I have deb-src lines for ubuntu and debian, then I can see it
[19:31] <jdstrand> kees: do you have deb-src lines for everything?
[19:32] <jdstrand> eg
[19:32] <kees> jdstrand: I do, yes.
[19:33] <jdstrand> well, I'll try to reproduce and it can be discussed outside of the meeting
[19:33] <jdstrand> I'm done
[19:33] <kees> okay, cool.  anything else?
[19:33] <mdeslaur> nopers
[19:33] <mdeslaur> anyone?
[19:33] <mdeslaur> Bueler? Bueler?
[19:34] <kees> meeting over, thanks everyone!  :)
[23:58]  * genii makes a large pot of coffee, hands out the mugs
[23:59] <DarkwingDuck> ohhh. free mugs
[23:59] <apachelogger> free coffee!
[23:59] <DarkwingDuck> my mug is ugly so I'm happy for a new one
[23:59] <paultag_> I totally just ordered an Ubuntu mug ;)