[01:59] <zequence> len-1304: I was able to upload a lowlatency kernel to my ppa ppa:zequence/kernel-testing
[01:59] <zequence> It has some stuff disabled
[02:00] <zequence> debug stuff mostly
[02:00] <zequence> 3.8 for raring
[02:03] <zequence> There's no meta, just the image. linux-image-3.8.0-6.4-shaved1-lowlatency
[02:05] <zequence> no headers, so no proprietary drivers
[02:13] <zequence> hmm, I think this kernel must really suck for lowlatency
[02:16] <Lumpy> heyas
[02:22] <zequence> Lumpy:
[02:22] <zequence> hi
[02:22] <zequence> len-1304: The raring kernel is not performing well for me at all
[02:23] <zequence> My "shaved off" version did not have any effect on performance of what I can see. Did cyclictest and some audio testing
[02:23] <zequence> This is AMD, so disabling Intel stuff would of course not affect anything
[02:24] <zequence> cyclictest shows something like 10x more than one would expect from a well configure realtime kernel
[02:24] <zequence> results were far better on Quantal
[02:25] <zequence> I need to retest. In fact, I should do this properly and just post the results on ubuntustudio-testing
[05:06] <len-1304> zequence, I am using Linux studio1304 3.8.0-6-lowlatency #4-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Tue Feb 12 12:57:58 UTC 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:06] <len-1304> I have not had any problems
[05:11] <len-1304> zequence, I guess I should ask what you mean by performance...
[05:13] <len-1304> To me it means better audio performance. Lower latency without xruns. Greater stability at higher cpu loads.
[06:16] <Lumpy> heya len-1304
[06:17] <Lumpy> for what it is worth, linux means better performance
[06:17] <Lumpy> :)
[06:17] <Lumpy> i get xruns but listeners never seem to notice it
[07:17] <Lumpy> nini all
[08:25] <zequence> len-1304: I'm getting really poor results from cyclictest as well as just running jackd with a software
[08:26] <zequence> Just running jack is not enough
[08:27] <zequence> The goal is to have jack run more or less stable at 32 frames/period with software and cpu load
[08:27] <zequence> And more or less perfect at 64 frames/preiod
[08:27] <zequence> this is what we had on Natty
[08:29] <zequence> With cpu load, I include jerking around with graphics and doing something like decompressing files using all cores
[08:29] <zequence> or compiling something
[08:34] <zequence> if it's realtime, nothing will budge the process
[08:34] <zequence> or should
[08:35] <zequence> now, since i've done all too little testing my results are not enough to talk about really. Other than that these were extremely poor
[08:35] <zequence> I had better results on Quantal
[08:35] <zequence> more than twice as good on cyclictest
[09:29] <zequence> hmm, I do have headers. of course I do
[11:22] <zequence> I'm gonna try something else next. Use an older release with both it's kernel and newer one
[11:23] <zequence> I'm highly suspecting it's not the kernel that causes all of the grief
[13:35] <smartboyhw> zequence, promise me one thing: If you are going to use the ~ubuntustudio-core powers to change testcases of Ubuntu Studio in the ISO QA Tracker, INFORM ME
[15:09]  * smartboyhw goes to change links at download page of ubuntustudio.org
[15:09] <smartboyhw> It isn't updated....
[15:09]  * smartboyhw is thinking that we should probably have a release checklist.....
[15:09] <smartboyhw> zequence, ^
[15:19] <zequence> smartboyhw: That sounds like a good idea. Actually, I'm starting to think that it might be a good idea also to create a release team
[15:19] <smartboyhw> zequence, oh......
[15:19] <smartboyhw> zequence, BTW you got something wrong on the team structure page
[15:20] <smartboyhw> For the leaders role (you and scott-work) it is not Quality ISSURANCE it is Quality ASSURANCE :P
[15:20] <smartboyhw> There is no such thing as QI:P
[15:21] <zequence> smartboyhw: If you find spelling/grammar mistakes, please feel free to correct them
[15:21] <smartboyhw> zequence, ok
[15:21] <smartboyhw> zequence, I also updated the download links for 12.04.2 in the community wiki and ubuntustudio.org
[15:21]  * smartboyhw likes doing typo edits
[15:21] <zequence> Swedish is quite close to English in many ways, and we would use the same word for both
[15:22] <zequence> It's easy to make this kind of mistakes
[15:22] <smartboyhw> zequence, oh really?
[15:22]  * smartboyhw doesn't know that
[15:24] <zequence> The correct grammar there would be "didn't", but I guess that is because Chinese doesn't make a distinction between did or do
[15:24] <smartboyhw> zequence, LOL
[15:24] <smartboyhw> I have better English than Chinese (srsly)
[15:27] <zequence> I speak three languages fluently myself, plus a little German. But, I wouldn't say I'm very good at any of them. For two reasons. I'm not good at remembering words, and I've never put much time into improving my language skills
[15:27] <smartboyhw> Uh
[15:28] <zequence> My sisters are both speak at least four languages fluently, but they are living abroad
[15:28] <zequence> - are
[15:28] <smartboyhw> zequence, if you one day set up have a seperate team for releases tell me I might join (of course that depends on you really
[15:28] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yeah, I was thinking of that. Since you are the person most active with that anyway
[15:29] <zequence> would make sense
[15:30] <smartboyhw> zequence, thanks
[15:30] <smartboyhw> I seemingly have pleasure doing ISO tests..... (more weirdly, I ranked third in doing 12.04.2 ISO tests, doing 46)
[15:31] <zequence> I'll just talk with Scott, so he's in on it. Then I'll create the team. Add you to it, and ask the guy in -release to change it again for us
[15:31] <zequence> Wow, that's plenty
[15:31] <smartboyhw> zequence, the guy = stgraber. OK
[15:31] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:48] <smartboyhw> zequence, there's a typo: I actually only did 44. However the first (pwlars) and the second (psivaa) has got 136 and 129 test results in 12.04.2. How on earth did they accomplish that!?
[16:01] <len-1304> zequence, on my P4 with 32 frames on jack I am pushing 70% DSP, but the cpu% is much higher.  I am getting 0 to maybe 3 xruns in a few hours.
[16:01] <smartboyhw> Hey len-1304 thank you for testing 12.04.2
[16:01] <len-1304> The xruns are from SW updates BTW.
[16:01] <len-1304> smartboyhw, NP
[16:06] <len-1304> zequence, I will try to spend some time today pushing things with guitarix and rakarrack.
[16:06] <len-1304> But so far the biggest difference has been turning hyperthreading off.
[16:07] <len-1304> On a multicore machine I don't know that hyperthread is that helpful.
[17:16]  * len-1304 thinks hyperthreading was a stop gap before multi-core... or maybe a sales gimmick
[17:17] <Lump|AFK> heya len-1304
[17:17] <Lump|AFK> for what it is worth, I agree with you on the hyper threading but I sure love my atom on my Eee
[17:17] <len-1304> Lump|AFK, how are you.
[17:18] <Lump|AFK> i am tired and stresssed atm
[17:18] <len-1304> The atom based MBs seem to be some of the netter ones for audio
[17:18] <len-1304> *better
[17:18] <Lump|AFK> been pulled a bit thin recently and I need to hustle some bucks for bills
[17:18] <Lump|AFK> but such is the life of one self employed.
[17:19] <len-1304> Been there. This has been a hard year for money for us.
[17:19] <Lump|AFK> i am going to try streaming with the Eee in the near future
[17:19] <Lump|AFK> some of the local clubs are interested in live remotes
[17:19] <Lump|AFK> so i need to decide if i can use the eee or need to build a machine for it
[17:19] <len-1304>  I have been looking at linphone with the thought of hacking in jack support.
[17:19] <len-1304> Sounds like fun.
[17:20] <Lump|AFK> you have to keep me posted on that one
[17:20] <Lump|AFK> now that linux is coming to phones i may get a smart phone down the road
[17:20] <Lump|AFK> but after trying windows mobile, i ended up going back to a palm m500
[17:21] <len-1304> Ya, the problem I see is that the streamer is separate from the rest. I need to see if it is only started when the call connects.
[17:21] <Lump|AFK> i just like the palm, jpilot interface much better than micro$oft's outlook and pocket pc
[17:21] <Lump|AFK> pluc, imho, the graffiti beats the pants off ms handwriting rec
[17:21] <len-1304> There is a broadcast quality box out that is built to act as a studio end to phone converstions.
[17:22] <Lump|AFK> yeah isn't that ironic.. land line providers now specialize in compression and cell phone carries move to fidelity
[17:22] <len-1304> It doesn't use jack, but goes straight to audio or AES3 i/o
[17:23] <len-1304> The problem is that "leased line" is no longer being offered in a lot of places.
[17:23] <len-1304> So AoIP is all that is left.
[17:24] <len-1304> I have been reading a lot of EBU papers on this stuff
[17:24] <Lump|AFK> land lines are now optional for carriers outside of business i guess
[17:24] <Lump|AFK> which, imho, is rather scary
[17:25] <len-1304> I want to make a SIP client that is standards compliant with the EBU standard for Linux.
[17:26] <len-1304> Landlines (of some form) are still very much in use. The form is changing though.
[17:27] <Lump|AFK> ntl, i have to get jiggy with my nick soon
[17:27] <len-1304> Things are going digital right at the house instead of shipping audio all the way the the switch
[17:27] <Lump|AFK> you going to be about today?
[17:27] <len-1304> Off and on yes.
[17:27] <Lump|AFK> hopefully i can catch ya later
[17:27] <len-1304> K
[17:28] <Lump|AFK> btw and fwi, it think i went over 5 hours continuous on the stream last night
[17:28] <Lump|AFK> sf was in --> meterbridge ppm --> jack rack with compressor and eq --> meterbridge ppm -- idjc
[17:29] <len-1304> Sounds great.
[17:29] <Lump|AFK> largest xrun was just a few tenths over a millisecond
[17:30] <len-1304> zequence, pulse 3.* is now released into quantal seems to fix the starting of jack while streaming so far.
[17:30] <len-1304> Lump|AFK, that is pretty good, was there any noticable glitch?
[17:30] <len-1304> (sound wise?)
[17:31] <Lump|AFK> had a good number of listeners in chat throughout the night
[17:32] <Lump|AFK> and every time i saw an xrun, i asked
[17:32] <Lump|AFK> nobody noticed
[17:32] <Lump|AFK> i notice because i monitor the line in and not the compresseedd, eqed stream
[17:32] <Lump|AFK> but i think the real time kernel makes the line in skip but not the stream out
[17:33] <Lump|AFK> i never can hear it on the finished recording either
[17:33] <Lump|AFK> i would like to monitor the stream but the delay ends up making one slur their speach like a drunk
[17:34] <Lump|AFK> nonetheless i have to head out or we are going to be a hungry familyu
[17:34] <Lump|AFK> er family
[17:34] <Lump|AFK> i will be back later today and hopefully about more tomorrow
[17:35] <Lump|AFK> i still want to get around to installing the nightly and setting up error reporting and such
[17:35] <Lump|AFK> forgive me i have just been buried of the late
[17:35] <holstein> on xrun here and there might not be a big deal
[17:36] <holstein> i usually go for zero xruns
[17:36] <holstein> i would just bump the latency up a little
[17:36] <holstein> just the next settings higher
[17:40] <Lump|AFK> hey holstein, i have to bolt but i will give that a try
[17:40] <Lump|AFK> although really very few xruns... maybe one an hour
[17:40] <Lump|AFK> usually it occurs when i switch workspaces
[17:41] <holstein> sure, but you likely dont need the low latency
[17:42] <holstein> you also could be at like 18ms.. and going to 30 or 40 would really not make that much differece
[17:42] <holstein> difference*
[17:43] <holstein> for me, anything over about 12ms, and im not able to do live effects or software synths, so it might as well be stable at 80ms
[17:43] <Lump|AFK> like i said, i will give it a try
[17:43] <holstein> that would literally mean that, on your stream, what you do will happen 80ms later... im sure no one would notice
[17:52] <Lump|AFK> ntl, i will play with latency next stream, for now, i need to get to the store
[17:52] <Lump|AFK> you have a good day len, holstein and room
[17:52] <Lump|AFK> and thanks for the help you always provide
[17:52] <Lump|AFK> you being plural
[17:53] <holstein> cheers!
[17:56] <len-1304> holstein, Ya, bumping latency up works for most things, but can add extra pauses in when you have contributors that are remote.
[17:57] <len-1304> Though I think at the moment, he is running the remote line in with the mics through a mixer.
[17:57] <Lump|AFK> correct len
[17:57] <Lump|AFK> so it would be mute
[17:57] <Lump|AFK> ntl for real now, my coat is on
[17:57] <Lump|AFK> cya
[17:58] <len-1304> holstein, have you tried the difference with hyperthreading turned off or on ?
[17:58] <len-1304> Lump|AFK, bye.
[17:58] <holstein> len-1304: i havent, but i can
[17:58] <len-1304> It has dropped me one latency step.
[17:58] <holstein> interesting...
[17:59] <holstein> you diable that in the bios?
[17:59] <len-1304> Yes ,but it can be done after boot too.
[18:00] <len-1304> There is a syscontrol command to disable some of the cpus. Linux sees hyperthreads as two cpus
[18:00] <len-1304> so disabling every second cpu has the same effect.
[18:01] <holstein> i have avlinux on a nice-ish box with ht
[18:01] <holstein> i should try it there
[18:01] <holstein> its easy to get an xrun
[18:01] <len-1304> holstein, this in on my old P4 box. (single core)
[18:02] <holstein> yeah, my main rig is a dual core
[18:02] <holstein> iirc the other box with AVlinux is just a nice-ish p4 with ht
[18:03] <len-1304> I don't seem to have any higher cpu% to do the same work either.
[18:04] <len-1304> Lots of things that gave xruns before (like switching workspaces) don't seem to.
[18:04] <holstein> that is odd
[18:04] <holstein> maybe its the overhead or running HT these days
[18:05] <len-1304> Could be.
[18:05] <holstein> i should try that on my daily driver too
[18:05] <holstein> my little netbook shows up like it has 4 cores
[18:05] <len-1304> With a RT thread the context switch might happen a lot more often.
[18:07] <len-1304> Ya, linux sees hyperthreading like extra cores... and uses them as such. So it is easy to end up with an RT thread and a non RT thread trying to use the core
[18:08] <holstein> i like that email to the list "Hi, I am new to this and expect a lot of support and help from all."
[18:08] <len-1304> Linux doesn't try to limit the time the Non RT thread has on it's "core"
[18:08] <len-1304> :))
[18:08] <holstein> its gotta be some language barrier, or a large misunderstanding of what a mailing list is
[18:08] <len-1304> Or used to comertial lists.
[18:09] <len-1304> commercial.
[18:09] <holstein> that too..
[18:12] <len-1304> I have been working on switching my mode app from tcl/tk to python


[00:20] <Cool-Nick> check this guys: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=996355
[00:21] <fonzarelli> Cool-Nick: duplicate thread:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=479677
[00:22] <Cool-Nick> fonzarelli: plz don't say it :(
[00:22] <Cool-Nick> yeah but that one is old :)
[00:22] <Cool-Nick> we need a new one ;)
[00:23] <fonzarelli> haha
[00:23] <Cool-Nick> hey buddy POST yours ;)
[00:23] <fonzarelli> the world is my workstation
[00:24] <Cool-Nick> the world is too big for you ;)
[00:24] <Cool-Nick> do you like mine?
[00:24] <fonzarelli> yup, its nice
[00:25] <Cool-Nick> thnx
[01:11] <lonor> How do you add more Desktops in Xubuntu 8.10? Also - how can I add the Terminal to the launcher panel. Does the CPU usage graph take up much CPU?
[01:12] <lonor> and does the Network usage graph take up much CPU?
[02:45] <orangefly> can anyone help with a linksys wusb54gs....???....
[02:53] <fonzarelli> what's your question?
[03:51] <orangefly> hello....???....
[03:55] <orangefly> anyone here....???....
[04:11] <cody-somerville> :)
[04:11] <cody-somerville> !ask
[04:45] <gourdcaptain> Does anyone have any tips for submitting bug reports? I've found several bugs in XFCE I've been told to report as bugs, but nobody ever seems to respond to launchpad entries or XFCE bugzilla entries I make.
[06:50] <bitmouse> hey could anybody recommend a good VNC program group?
[09:23] <ZER0C00L> Hi
[09:23] <ZER0C00L> I'm trying to edit my xorg.conf
[09:24] <ZER0C00L> but when i open it just says "Configured Video Device"
[09:24] <ZER0C00L> instead of the normal device or driver
[09:24] <ZER0C00L> runnign xubuntu 8.10
[09:26] <jxander> sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[09:26] <jxander> or whatever text editor you like
[09:27] <ZER0C00L> did that
[09:27] <jxander> and?
[09:27] <ZER0C00L> but it doesnt look anything like the usual xorg.conf
[09:27] <ZER0C00L> Section "Device"
[09:27] <ZER0C00L>         Identifier      "Configured Video Device"
[09:27] <ZER0C00L> EndSection
[09:27] <ZER0C00L> thats all it says
[09:27] <jxander> well
[09:28] <jxander> nowadays xorg.conf is pretty empty :P
[09:28] <jxander> what do you want to configure?
[09:28] <ZER0C00L> i got the ATI M7500
[09:29] <ZER0C00L> found i guide to speed it up abit
[09:29] <jxander> then you should add the sections with the options you want...
[09:29] <jxander> but make backups first :P
[09:30] <ZER0C00L> hehe good idea
[09:30] <jxander> yeah, you never know... :P
[09:38] <ZER0C00L> well here we go
[11:23] <Almindor> hey
[11:23] <Almindor> I can't add the sound mixer to the panel
[11:23] <Almindor> it blinks in and out (probably crashes?)
[11:23] <Almindor> (sounds works otherwise
[11:24] <rob> i just installed 8.10 and it says there are 86 newer packages which want to be installed. my question is: is it always the best to install ALL suggested updates ?
[11:24] <knome> rob, in 99% of the cases, yes.
[11:25] <knome> rob, you should be safe to install the upgrades.
[11:25] <rob> knome, ok, thanks!
[11:25] <knome> np.
[11:26] <Almindor> any idea how to get backtrace of the plugin or something?
[11:27] <TheSheep> Almindor: try dragging and dropping it from the list to the panel
[11:30] <Almindor> TheSheep, aha it didn't blink away this time
[11:32] <TheSheep> known bug... from at least 2 years
[11:41] <knome> TheSheep, fix it :P
[11:42] <TheSheep> knome: no point, 4.6 is just around the corner :P
[11:43] <knome> TheSheep, people will still use 4.4, eh? ;)
[11:43] <TheSheep> that's their problem
[11:52] <knome> TheSheep, actually no, wrong answer :P
[12:10] <mandelum> Hello, installed xfce on my ubuntu, because the last months has I have seen extremly sluggish perfomance. Xfce actually dilivered more performance than I could ever dream of. Things are actually fast now. And I do not understand how this is possible! However I have two questions. Would I see a even more boost if I where to do Pure Xfce and uninstall GNOME or are ther particular things I could uninstall jut to get it faster? And the other question is, why on
[12:14] <knome> mandelum, your message got cut on "is, why on"
[12:14] <knome> mandelum, answer for first: what speeds xfce is not to use apps based on kde or gnome libs
[12:14] <mandelum> And the other question is, why on earth when you have the great autofnd feature in the desktop application louncher setup, why can you have it also for panel application lounchers. Now it will take forever to get the right applications with their icons to the panel. Thank you!
[12:14] <knome> mandelum, eg. if you don't use any kde app, you don't have to load kde libs
[12:15] <mandelum> I use, Firefox, Pidgin, Inkscape and Tomboy
[12:15] <mandelum> is the network manager a gnom or kde app
[12:15] <knome> well, xfce uses gnome libs anyway
[12:16] <mandelum> okej
[12:16] <mandelum> so it is not terribly important to clean away some gnome stuff
[12:16] <knome> you're right.
[12:16] <knome> !purexfce
[12:16] <mandelum> I mean I am quite content with this speed already and would not like to mess up any important application
[12:16] <knome> i don't know if it *really* makes a difference
[12:17] <knome> but at least you get a cleaner feeling
[12:17] <knome> (or i would)
[12:17] <mandelum> yes, that link was where I got the idea :)
[12:17] <knome> it doesn't do you any bad
[12:17] <mandelum> well, could for example Tomboy break
[12:17] <mandelum> because that is my most imortant app
[12:18] <mandelum> or the Network-manager for wireess
[12:18] <mandelum> or some codes
[12:18] <mandelum> codecs
[12:18] <knome> well...
[12:19] <knome> as you might've noticed, those are only apt-get remove lines
[12:19] <mandelum> true
[12:19] <knome> so they basically just uninstall a bunch of software
[12:19] <jarnos> mandelum: You save disk space and ubuntu does not serve that many updates, if you remove unneeded gnome-desktop packages.
[12:19] <knome> just remove anything from the command you want to keep
[12:19] <mandelum> but there was a hell of a lot of them, and I don know what even half of them are so it would take time to figure things out
[12:20] <knome> just uninstall
[12:20] <mandelum> jarnos: true, a good point
[12:20] <knome> you can install software back if you by mistake uninstall something important
[12:21] <mandelum> yes, but if something breaks and I do not know what th pakage name is
[12:21] <mandelum> well, I quess I do it later, when I wuld have the time to handle potential problems
[12:21] <mandelum> what about the panel icon problem, is it a filed bug already
[12:22] <mandelum> does not seem like very difficult to solve to me
[12:22] <knome> mandelum, suppose so :P
[12:22] <mandelum> would it not be easy to get the desktop application launcher setup on the panel too
[12:22] <knome> what do you mean by "desktop application launcher" ?
[12:22] <mandelum> is there any good hack around this for now. I would really like having some appliations with the right icons on the panel
[12:23] <knome> the "launcher" item on the panel plugins?
[12:23] <mandelum> I mean, that when you right click on the desktop and then create a new application louncher, this application louncher will b able to autosuggest programs for you and choose the right icon
[12:24] <knome> see my prev message
[12:24] <knome> is that what you mean?
[12:24] <mandelum> and on the panel the same system does not do this, ich mean you would have to manually hunt down every icon
[12:24] <knome> a-ha
[12:24] <jarnos> mandelum: you can type the name of the application in terminal and it the package needed is not installed, you are adviced to install it.
[12:25] <mandelum> and since xfce does not allow one to drag and drop the lounchers, it is a little bit unconveninet
[12:25] <knome> mandelum, usually the program launch name is ok, eg. "inkscape" gives inkscape icon
[12:26] <knome> mandelum, exceptions: firefox -> "firefox-3.0" , thunar -> "Thunar" (casing!)
[12:26] <knome> there might be other
[12:26] <mandelum> no
[12:26] <mandelum> it does not give me the icon
[12:26] <knome> press tab?
[12:27] <mandelum> are we both talking now about the Panel Application Louncher
[12:28] <knome> mandelum, yes :P
[12:28] <knome> mandelum, what app are you trying to give an icon to?
[12:28] <mandelum> I only get a cogwheel as deafoult and then I can choose between say 10 diferent icons and also other
[12:28] <mandelum> well, I do not know yet, I have not decided wich apps to have on hte panel
[12:28] <knome> write eg. "inkscape" to the text box
[12:29] <mandelum> but maybe 5-10 apps
[12:29] <knome> and press tab
[12:29] <mandelum> Iin the name box?
[12:29] <knome> right to the icon
[12:29] <knome> yes.
[12:29] <knome> uh not name.
[12:29] <knome> sorry
[12:29] <knome> the box on the right of the icon :)
[12:30] <knome> also this way it will change the icons if you change the icon theme later
[12:31] <mandelum> well, it just selects the next button(the folder icon)
[12:31] <knome> yes
[12:31] <knome> did you write "inkscape" without quotes?
[12:32] <mandelum> yes
[12:32] <mandelum> I have tryied with diffrent names, like Pidgin and terminal too
[12:32] <knome> hmmh. and the icon didn't appear?
[12:32] <mandelum> no
[12:32] <knome> all lowercase?
[12:33] <mandelum> ahaaaa
[12:33] <mandelum> wow
[12:33] <mandelum> :)
[12:33] <mandelum> yess
[12:33] <knome> yup
[12:33] <knome> but thunar = Thunar
[12:33] <knome> it is an exception
[12:34] <mandelum> sorry, for not beeing observant about your help
[12:34] <mandelum> really silly of me
[12:34] <knome> np
[12:34] <mandelum> thanks a lot!
[12:34] <knome> yw
[12:34] <knome> have fun using panel launchers :<
[12:34] <knome> :>
[12:34] <mandelum> :)
[12:34] <mandelum> yes and with this superfast desktop
[12:35] <mandelum> I simply can not understand how everything can be so much faster
[12:35] <mandelum> even loading firefox
[12:35] <knome> not so many processes taking up cpu and mem
[12:35] <knome> gnome is a big bloaty system
[12:35] <mandelum> what are those gnome guys putting in gnome really?
[12:36] <mandelum> I do not see even one benefit with gnome
[12:36] <knome> imo gnome used to be ok
[12:36] <knome> but it got bloated *a lot*
[12:36] <mandelum> why
[12:36] <mandelum> so strange
[12:36] <mandelum> you linux guys usually hate bloat
[12:37] <mandelum> does do bloat give any functionality?
[12:37] <knome> well, things just happen
[12:37] <knome> and when there is a bunch of developers...
[12:38] <knome> well... it might keep the existing functionality working or fix a bug :P
[12:38] <mandelum> lol
[12:38] <mandelum> well Xfce is impressive anyway
[12:39] <knome> good to hear
[12:39] <knome> mandelum, if you ever want to give something back, please check http://xubuntu.org/contribute :)
[12:39] <mandelum> having some trouble with the Prism icons
[12:40] <mandelum> thank you, I may want to do that!
[12:40] <knome> do the prism apps have icons?
[12:40] <mandelum> ofcourse
[12:40] <mandelum> the favicons
[12:41] <mandelum> they are really cute, for gmail, calendar, facebook etc
[12:41] <knome> ok, let me try
[12:42] <knome> prism-google-mail
[12:42] <knome> eg.
[12:43] <mandelum> cool
[12:43] <mandelum> you are so helpful!
[12:43] <knome> suppose prism-facebook, prism-google-calendar ...
[12:44] <knome> nice to hear i can help
[12:45] <mandelum> yes, and I am glad I don´t need to trouble ou with some big problems
[12:45] <mandelum> theese small details just get me feel very comfortable in xfce, so thanks
[12:47] <knome> yes, xfce is very configurable
[12:48] <knome> different from kdes on gnomes configurability
[12:48] <knome> much more useful on many things
[12:48] <mandelum> yes, and I know my friend will love it
[12:48] <mandelum> he just instlled ubuntu on his eee
[12:48] <mandelum> and he was not happy with either gnome or kde
[12:49] <knome> well on eeepc i'm not very surprised
[12:49] <mandelum> or he did some cool things in compi
[12:49] <knome> ;)
[12:49] <boivie1146> Hello folks! I have a problem with connecting to the internet. I installed Xubuntu 64-bit PC desktop from the CD, directly after it was released. I can't basically do anything on the internet, but downloading som tiny files. When I ping up to 1500 bytes it goes swift and well, but when I ping 1501 bytes or more I get packet loss every time. I have Ubuntu 8.04 installed on the same computer without any internet problems. Anyone know
[12:49] <mandelum> but I still think he would like xfce more
[12:49] <knome> boivie1146, "Anyone know" ... the text got cutted.
[12:50] <TheSheep> sounds like a bad frame size on the router
[12:50] <boivie1146> sorry "Anyone knows where to look for a solution?"
[12:50] <boivie1146> TheSheep: I don
[12:51] <boivie1146> I don't use any router
[12:51] <TheSheep> boivie1146: well, you are connected to the internet somehow, there is a bunch of routers on the way
[12:51] <mandelum> the strangest things after switching to xfce is that, before in gnome some (I think) png images in firefox would get all pixelated... Not in Xfce
[12:51] <mandelum> very strange indeed
[12:52] <boivie1146> TheSheep: okey. Isn't there a way to make xubuntu 8.10 tackle the routers the same way as ubuntu 8.04 do?
[12:53] <TheSheep> if it is what I think it is, then probably there is some kernel option for that
[12:54] <TheSheep> but it should be fixed on the router, really
[12:55] <boivie1146> TheSheep: okey. Well the routers are out of my control, so...
[12:59] <mandelum> can you run compiz in gnome? My freind may want to use it
[13:00] <knome> mandelum, yes
[13:04] <boivie1146> TheSheep: Well, I think I'm too inexperienced for messing with the kernel. Do you think I will have the same problem if I instead try to install the i386 version?
[13:10] <mandelum> If I do the Pure Xfce command, are you sure that there will be no problems with Tomboy, Pidgin, Firefox, Network-Manager?
[13:11] <mandelum> thoose apps are critical to me!
[13:11] <mandelum> also the codecs would be nice to preserve
[13:13] <knome> so you are coming from gnome?
[13:13] <knome> !pastebin
[13:14] <knome> mandelum, http://paste.ubuntu.com/78033/
[13:14] <knome> mandelum, i removed tomboy from removed list. even if any app you want to use is removed, their configurations stay
[13:15] <knome> mandelum, so installing back will bring you back all you configurationgs
[13:15] <knome> -g
[13:15] <knome> mandelum, just don't worry too much about it :)
[13:16] <mandelum> -g?
[13:17] <mandelum> what about firefox, I see that you uninstall that too, and you probobly get a new install from xfce, but are the settings preserved?
[13:18] <mandelum> because if my network break, I will have no way of figuring things out
[13:19] <mandelum> and I rely on someone elses wireless right now
[13:21] <knome> mandelum, they are, but actually it just uninstalls firefox-3.0-gnome-support
[13:21] <knome> mandelum, and not firefox itself
[13:21] <knome> mandelum, and you can review which packages are uninstalled before you do if there's something else to be uninstalled than the list
[13:22] <mandelum> yes, I would take away tomboy from the list
[13:23] <mandelum> but it also seems to remove firefox itself
[13:56] <mandelum> are there any good application launcers for xfce
[13:56] <mandelum> ?
[13:57] <mandelum> I have had trouble with gnome do, it just crashes all the time, it has done so also in gnome so it is not a xce specific problem...
[14:00] <knome> mandelum, application launcher?
[14:00] <knome> alt+f2 ?
[14:00] <knome> or what do you mean
[14:00] <mandelum> GNOME DO
[14:00] <mandelum> yo know
[14:00] <mandelum> but  found out the problem
[14:01] <mandelum> and the problem is wih the tomboy plugin
[14:01] <knome> nope, actually don't know :)
[14:01] <mandelum> and hat is sad because that is the most important plugin for me
[14:05] <privet> where do I find the config to make snmpd listen on all interfaces ( and not only on localhost)?
[14:17] <bluej> I have xfce4-icon-theme and hicolor-icon-theme installed, but some mime types in Thunar (mainly text files) still have the fallback icon (http://thunar.xfce.org/pwiki/_media/documentation/thunar-faq-broken-icons.png?cache=cache)
[14:17] <bluej> any ideas?
[14:58] <rob> can anyone explain me what the option "relatime" means and if i should set it for mounting my windows partition ?
[14:59] <Myrtti> rob: how technical answer do you want?
[15:00] <rob> im an advanced noob / medium skilled user
[15:00] <rob> so do what u think
[15:00] <rob> :)
[15:03] <rob> Myrtti ? :>
[15:03] <Myrtti> there seems to be quite good explanation about the differences of atime, noatime and relatime in man ntfs-3g. It says that unlike noatime, relatime doesn't break applications that need to know if a file has been read since the last time it was modified. Relatime is also the default behaviour for mounting ntfs partitions with ntfs-3g, so yes, you should set it.
[15:04] <rob> oi
[15:04] <juanantonio> Hello
[15:04] <Myrtti> rob: did that answer your question? :->
[15:04] <rob> well thanks for that one Myrtti. you sure did :)
[15:05] <rob> Myrtti, but as it seems, it is also used for ext3 partitions since my default fstab show the relatime options for all of my ext3 partitions :)
[15:05] <Myrtti> rob: the same behaviour does indeed apply to ext3 as well.
[15:06] <rob> so i guess noatime makes the fs faster but the probability of breaking programs that need to see the last change of a file is given, right ?
[15:07] <Myrtti> rob: there has been some discussion on the lkml about the effects in speed between relatime and noatime. http://kerneltrap.org/node/14148
[15:07] <rob> oh nice thanks
[15:07] <Myrtti> well, that's actually a year old
[15:08] <Myrtti> but yeah, there is a risk of breaking certain programs.
[15:25] <rob> i need libglade2-0 to install something but its not in the repos - what can i do? :/
[15:28] <juanantonio> Hello. How much space takes Xubuntu 8.10 once it is installed with Xfce default desktop?
[15:29] <juanantonio> Sorry, Rob. I haver no idea, I am very new in Linux
[15:30] <rob> juanantonio, i installed it today and its like 2,6GB big
[15:31] <juanantonio> 2.6 G default installation?
[15:31] <rob> yep
[15:31] <rob> but i think i already installed some stuff
[15:31] <rob> so maybe 2.3
[15:34] <juanantonio> Ok. It is because I want to overwrite in a PC with SuSE 10, and I had 3 gb ReiserFS partition
[15:37] <vidd> difilippantonio.com
[15:38] <vidd> whoops...wrong window
[15:44] <juanantonio> Hehehe, vidd
[15:45] <juanantonio> Seriously I am trying to overwrite SuSE to install Xubuntu
[15:45] <vidd> synergy made me do it!
[15:45] <juanantonio> Synergy?
[15:46] <vidd> it is an application that lets you share a keyboard, mouse and clipboard between multiple machines (even on different platforms)
[15:46] <vidd> !synergy
[15:46] <vidd> !synergys
[15:46] <juanantonio> What made me do it was that SuSE 10 comes with many things I am not using any more becuase my main PC is this
[15:46] <vidd> !synergyc
[15:47] <vidd> juanantonio, what are your partitions on that suse box?
[15:47] <juanantonio> Ah, ok. No problem, I have a KVM for 4 PCs
[15:47] <vidd> juanantonio, the monitor isnt shared =]
[15:48] <juanantonio> Yes, I have a /dev/sda1 with XP; sda2, extended, for Linux, and inside sda5 is swap and sda6 is SuSE in ReiserFS
[15:48] <juanantonio> Vidd, sorry, you are right ;)
[15:49] <vidd> juanantonio, sda2, and sda5 dont mean much....what are the sizes?
[15:49] <vidd> and do you want to keep any of that info?
[15:49] <juanantonio> The thing is, the information I handel, was in XP partition mainly
[15:50] <vidd> so besides the XP partition, the rest can go?
[15:50] <juanantonio> in order to keep working on the same thing in different systems
[15:51] <juanantonio> I have been told, that /home directory can be allocated to another partition and can be recovered as soon as I install a new system, is that right?
[15:51] <vidd> juanantonio, yes....as long as it IS a seperate partition
[15:52] <juanantonio> Can I take some space from sda2 to make another one?
[15:52] <vidd> however....why not just save the data from your /home that you *must* have on the XP partition?
[15:53] <vidd> your changing OS's so you will likely not need the config files on the new system
[15:54] <juanantonio> I have no data, only the desktop photo...hold on, maybe I have it also in XP
[15:57] <vidd> juanantonio, so are you ready to begin?
[15:57] <juanantonio> Yes, I am
[15:57] <vidd> what cd are you using to install?
[15:57] <juanantonio> We can delete SuSE and he booter
[15:58] <juanantonio> Mmm, normal, Xubuntu 8.10 32 bits
[15:58] <juanantonio> Now I am in CDLive
[15:58] <vidd> "normal".... so the live cd installer?
[15:58]  * vidd recomends the alt or the mini
[15:59] <juanantonio> vidd, it is not yet the other PC I told you about, this is a PIV 2,66 Ghz with 1Gb RAM
[15:59] <vidd> there are 3 main installers.... the Desktop, the Alternative, and the mini (plus a host of "special" installers)
[16:00] <juanantonio> and as I told you, I am now in the desktop of the CD Live version of Xubuntu normal image
[16:00] <vidd> juanantonio, i dont care if the machine has 16 gig of ram.....i would NEVER use the live (desktop) installer for anything except emergency
[16:01] <juanantonio> it is from there I was seeing the SuSE and XP details, in this PC I have Kubuntu
[16:01] <juanantonio> Ok, tell me then. I have the other CD also. What should I do?
[16:02] <vidd> this is basically what you want to do.... you want to remove all partitions except the XP partition
[16:02] <vidd> then, partition the free space.
[16:02] <vidd> set the swap at 2x the ram
[16:03] <nicolah> I just came here to say how fast was xubuntu live loading in this pc, INCREDIBLE
[16:03] <vidd> set the / partition at 10% of the remaining HD space or 5 GB, whichever is greater
[16:04] <juanantonio> Vidd, so the first thing to do is to calculate. I have 9 free Gb in XP partition, the Linux is 3 Gb
[16:04] <vidd> if you need server-type apps, split the remaining spce between /home and /var, otherwise, use the remaining for /home
[16:04] <vidd> juanantonio, in the alt installer, you can enter 10%
[16:05] <vidd> juanantonio, you have NO frre space in the XP partition, because you are leaving it alone
[16:05] <juanantonio> Yes. Shoud I format Linux partition now or when I insert the alt CD I can make it from here?
[16:06] <vidd> juanantonio, its entirely up to you.....
[16:06] <juanantonio> What's better?
[16:06] <vidd> if you can get the live to format your hard drive as stated above, then install via the live
[16:07]  * vidd is highly bigotted against the live cd install method, so he is not the individual to ask "which method is better"
[16:07] <juanantonio> Hehehe
[16:08] <vidd> the live cd method is about 3 years old (give or take), the alt install method is about 10-12 years old (give or take)
[16:08] <juanantonio> Vidd, listen, I can follow you if you can explain me step by step, I have no idea of how to do it, I only know what I want: delete SuSE and install Xubunutu
[16:08] <vidd> which do YOU think is more stable? =]
[16:09] <vidd> juanantonio, if you are using the live, i cant walk you step by step
[16:09] <vidd> you use the alt, i can walk you step by step
[16:09] <juanantonio> Hehehe, ok, I am convinced. I am going to exit and insert alternative, it's in the other cd, isn't it?
[16:10] <vidd> IDK
[16:10] <vidd> where did you get these cd's?
[16:10] <juanantonio> from Xubuntu.org page
[16:11] <vidd> on thier /get page...do you see the "alternative install"?
[16:11] <juanantonio> Let me see
[16:13] <vidd> you have to click the link for the mirror you want to use (or did use b4)
[16:13] <vidd> you will get something like http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/CDs-Xubuntu/8.10/release/
[16:14] <vidd> however, i like the mini, because it is one disk to install all flavors of ubuntu
[16:14] <vidd> !mini
[16:15] <juanantonio> Yes, I have this
[16:15] <vidd> 10MB disk image, downloads the packages right from the online repos(so no updating after install is complete)
[16:15] <vidd> so we want to fire it up
[16:15] <juanantonio> I have the CD with Modes: Normal, OEM, Install a command line and LTSP
[16:16] <juanantonio> This is what you say, is that right?
[16:16] <vidd> normal if you want the desktop installed too
[16:17] <juanantonio> Yes, I want the desktop as it appears in the CDLive
[16:17] <juanantonio> Ok, go on
[16:18] <vidd> should be self explainitory up to the "partition hard drive" section
[16:18] <vidd> when it asks you to "auto-detect keyboard" tell it "no" (its faster to just select your keyboard)
[16:18] <juanantonio> Sorry. You say once I have pressed Normal, of course
[16:18] <vidd> but if you are not sure, tell me what it says and i'll help you choose the best answer
[16:19] <vidd> yes...select normal
[16:19] <juanantonio> Of course, I will tell you what I do, I am new and I can break something ;)
[16:19] <vidd> juanantonio, you need more skills to break something in this installer before the partitioning!
[16:19] <vidd> =]
[16:20] <juanantonio> Hehehe, ok, thanks, man ;)
[16:20]  * vidd TRIES to break the alt installer during beta cycles!
[16:21] <juanantonio> Buffer I/O error on device sr0, is that bad?
[16:21] <juanantonio> Hehehe, you tried a lot, I see
[16:22] <vidd> buffer I/O error means your disk is likely damaged
[16:22] <vidd> reboot and do a memory check on the cd
[16:22] <juanantonio> Ok
[16:22] <vidd> "check cd for defects"
[16:23] <vidd> also....what version of Xubuntu is this installer?
[16:23] <vidd> the main menu does not sound like any of the supported installs (except possibly 6.06)
[16:24] <juanantonio> hold on
[16:29] <juanantonio> I got a problem, man. This CD was recorded in CDRW
[16:29] <juanantonio> and I think it has some problems, yes
[16:31] <vidd> juanantonio, so if you can get the live cd to properly set up the partitions , your install should be fine.....
[16:31] <vidd> im sure someone else here can assist with it
[16:33] <juanantonio> Xubuntu version is 8.10, man
[16:58] <juanantonio> I am checking the CD, vidd
[18:26] <KE7CYT> Hello to group.
[18:26] <vidd> hello KE7CYT
[18:26] <KE7CYT> Anyone had success getting audio to work with Neomagic NM2200?
[18:27] <vidd> KE7CYT, is neomagic in the repo's?
[18:28] <vidd> or is that the hardware?
[18:28] <KE7CYT> NM2200 is the video/multimedia chip in a number of older laptops.  It is listed as a supported device.
[18:29] <vidd> KE7CYT, what does lspci say your multimedia card is?
[18:30] <KE7CYT> 01:00.1 Multimedia audio controller: Neomagic Corporation NM2200 [MagicMedia 256AV Audio] (rev 20)
[18:31] <vidd> default xubuntu install?
[18:31] <KE7CYT> Alternate 8.10
[18:31] <vidd> not what i meant....
[18:32] <vidd> did you do a cli install and add a custom desktop? or did you do the normal instal method?
[18:32] <KE7CYT> normal install
[18:32] <vidd> and you made sure the audio dial on the laptop is set to max?
[18:33] <KE7CYT> the slider on the volume control won't move.  lshw shows the device, but marks it 'UNCLAIMED'
[18:34] <vidd> the PHYSICAL dial
[18:34] <vidd> (if your system has one)
[18:34] <KE7CYT> This model laptop doesn't have an external dial
[18:34] <vidd> ok...open the volume applet
[18:35] <KE7CYT> Done.  Windows is blank, shows no devices.
[18:35] <vidd> actually, right-click it and choose "properties"
[18:35] <KE7CYT> m'kay
[18:36] <vidd> what is listed under "Device"?
[18:36] <KE7CYT> Done.
[18:36] <KE7CYT> default
[18:36] <vidd> click the drop-down...any thing else listed?
[18:37] <KE7CYT> no.  I had it working on 8.04
[18:37] <vidd> did you have to install anything special then?
[18:39] <KE7CYT> I modified some files /etc/modprobe.d to force the system to load the soundblaster drivers (nm2200 emulates sb) but they don't work in 8.10
[18:43] <vidd> check the   October 5th, 2006  post by dbott67 on http://www.backports.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=32651&page=3
[18:43] <vidd> there is an insert of removing --purge the sound drivers and re-installing them
[18:44] <vidd> there is a cavet about replacing gdm and xubuntu-desktop if they get removed by the uninstall
[18:44] <vidd> see if that helps ya out
[18:44] <vidd> also...UNMODIFY that modprobe.d file
[18:45] <vidd> KE7CYT, ^^^^ you get all that?
[18:45] <KE7CYT> will do.  I'm using a virgin modprobe.d now 'cuz I reinstalled
[18:46] <vidd> KE7CYT, if this dont kix ya up, im out of ideas =[
[18:46] <KE7CYT> Thanks for the pointer!
[18:46] <vidd> *fix
[18:46] <KE7CYT> Buy an eeepc?
[18:47]  * vidd would recommend that wheather your issue gets fixed or not =]
[18:47]  * vidd also recommends using spell-checker!
[18:47] <KE7CYT> Yeah they're sweet.  My laptop I got for $5 at an estate sale.
[18:47] <vidd> heh....i got like 5 laptops for free
[18:48] <vidd> i got another freebie coming next week
[18:48] <KE7CYT> It's fun, repurposing stuff non-techie people throw away.
[18:49] <vidd> the only issues with this freebie nex week is bad cd-rom drive (iraqi sand does that) and windows vista OS
[18:49] <KE7CYT> Gotta run before the FAMILY uses up all the hot water.  Good luck with your freebie! Best regards, KE7CYT
[23:56] <martyd> anyone have experience moving /home to new partition?


[00:47] <slangasek> infinity, micahg: so I suppose these tzdata packages are built now and ought to be published; are we doing any verification on them?
[01:18] <infinity> slangasek: I did a quick test to make sure things looked sane.
[01:18] <infinity> slangasek: Not on every release, but they were all identical changes.
[01:41] <slangasek> infinity: ok, copying
[01:44] <slangasek> infinity, micahg: tzdata published
[04:00] <pipalo> Good time everyone!
[04:01] <pipalo> Can i get some help with this error http://mysticpaste.com/view/10459 - Patching xorg on 11.10 works fine on 11.04
[04:02] <pipalo> !help
[04:02] <pipalo> !patience
[04:35] <ome> net probe. anyhelp with http://mysticpaste.com/view/10459 ?
[04:42] <cjwatson> well, the patch just needs to be adjusted to apply against the new source; that's normal for patches
[04:44] <cjwatson> oh, but you're building the xorg source package?  that's odd, xorg didn't fail to build from source in 11.10.  perhaps a more complete transcript of what you're doing would help.
[04:45] <cjwatson> (including how you got the source package.)
[04:46] <ome> cjwatson, here is what I am doing http://bigbrovar.aoizora.org/index.php/2011/05/24/better-clickpad-support-for-ubuntu-11-04/
[04:48] <cjwatson> I don't want to pick through that - please show me a full transcript of just exactly what you are doing
[04:48] <cjwatson> from the start including error messages
[04:49] <cjwatson> oh, you're adding a patch to the source package, from the looks of that
[04:49] <cjwatson> then my previous comment stands, this isn't a procedure that can be performed for an arbitrary release without editing the patch
[04:51] <cjwatson> if you don't know how to do that, then it's best to ask the patch author
[04:52] <ome> I am not an expert but know a bit of programming and how stuff works under the hood.
[04:52] <ome> but I am not sure what that error suggests, I know there is something wrong with a config file but not sure what to look for.
[04:54] <cjwatson> no, the problem is that this is a patch for a different version of the software
[04:54] <cjwatson> it requires a developer to update it
[04:54] <ome> aight then, thanks for help.
[04:54] <cjwatson> (I had a quick look, and while the fix to 203 is simple, there are several other changes required to subsequent patches as well)
[04:56] <cjwatson> (and I'm not remotely confident that me doing a monkey-see-monkey-do patch refresh is going to result in a working synaptics driver)
[04:57] <cjwatson> you can learn how patches work if you like and try to update it yourself; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff#Unified_format
[04:58] <ome> thanks cjwatson I will have a look.
[12:39] <madnick> A virtual keyboard at the LightDM greeter would improve accessability, is anyone working on this for Ubuntu?
[14:59] <gs_> hello all
[14:59] <gs_> i am interested in writing system restore program for ubuntu
[14:59] <gs_> this will be able to restore the package state
[15:00] <gs_> of the system to an earlier saved state
[15:03] <gs_> for that I need to scan package metadata of those packages which are installed on the system
[15:03] <gs_> could you please help me in doing that ?
[16:54] <sladen> gs_: you want the APT/Dpkg metadata
[16:55] <sladen> gs_: dpkg --get-selections   and   dpkg --set-selections   should get you started
[17:03] <broder> gs_: you may also want to look at apt-btrfs-snapshot
[17:38] <jtaylor> or apt-clone (not the one in the repository)
[17:47] <shnatsel> hi everyone
[17:47] <shnatsel> I've just dropped by to say thanks
[17:47] <shnatsel> Thank you so much for providing ubuntu-core archives, guys!
[17:48] <shnatsel> that makes my life so much easier!


[03:42] <rozzin> fullermd: apparently bzr-colo includes a "colo-clean" command that does GC.
[05:44] <fullermd> Interesting.  Only applies to colo setups.  A little testing doesn't seem to clear up much though.
[05:45] <fullermd> Maybe it's removing revs but not texts?
[05:52] <lifeless> fullermd: or maybe compressed data is compressed
[05:52] <rozzin> The logic is the _clean() function in commands.py.
[05:52] <lifeless> fullermd: make sure you're excluding obsolete but not deleted packs
[05:52] <fullermd> I only looked in packs/
[05:53] <lifeless> k
[05:57] <fullermd> Specifically, I created a fresh workspace, committed a 20 meg .mp3, then uncommitted that rev.  I had to make an empty --unchanged rev before colo-clean would do anything, but after it did it cleared up about 100 bytes from the packfile.
[05:57] <rozzin> I do notice that "bzr heads --dead" no longer lists any dead heads after I run "bzr colo-clean".
[05:57] <fullermd> Which seems reasonably for getting rid of the commit, but either left the text or bzr's compression has gotten *really* bad at compressing nothing.
[05:59] <rozzin> Trying to repack a repository with zero commits in it?
[06:05] <rozzin> I'm guessing that's a no-op?
[06:05] <rozzin> Though I guess it might at least move .bzr/repository/packs/* into .bzr/repository/obsolete_packs.
[06:08] <rozzin> er, .bzr/branches/.bzr/repository/... in the case of a colo-ify'd workspace....
[06:12] <rozzin> Oh, no--it's that colo-clean on a workspace with no commits is a no-op.
[06:12] <rozzin> "No cleaning necessary."
[06:13] <rozzin> Mm. OK, colo-clean is a no-op _because_ pack() is a no-op.
[06:23] <lifeless> bzr pack should delete unreferenced texts
[06:23] <lifeless> ,,,
[06:23] <lifeless> mmm I think
[06:23] <lifeless> certainly clone will
[06:24] <rozzin> having pack do gc sounds dangerous to me.
[06:25] <rozzin> fullermd: Now I see what you mean. Even with a non-empty set of commits, colo-clean isn't freeing up the space used by my 94-MB file-that-no-longer-exists-in-any-commits, either.


[00:22] <CIA-8> debian-installer: cjwatson * r868 ubuntu/ (build/config/powerpc.cfg debian/changelog):
[00:22] <CIA-8> debian-installer: * Drop powerpc/cell subarchitecture at least for now, as the kernel no
[00:22] <CIA-8> debian-installer:  longer builds it.
[00:32] <CIA-8> console-setup: cjwatson * r39 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.19ubuntu2
[01:11] <evand> :q
[01:11] <evand> whoops
[01:44] <twb> I'm trying to do "d-i preseed/include string common.cfg" to put common bits (like the locale) across Gutsy and Etch in a separate .cfg file.
[01:44] <twb> d-i fails to fetch common.cfg, is it because after setting mirror/http/proxy it uses the proxy for the preseed files, too?
[01:47] <twb> newsflash!  It does use the proxy
[01:48] <twb> Can I use d-i apt-setup/something to set the proxy *only* for apt-get, (well, and anna-install)?
[01:48] <twb> Or, can I set a no_proxy variable?
[09:21] <Le_Vert_> hi :)
[10:10] <Le_Vert_> okay :)
[10:10] <Le_Vert_> I managed to start ubuntu 7.10 by pxe / nf
[10:10] <Le_Vert_> nfs
[10:11] <Le_Vert_> all what's needed is to disable network manager launch by dbus
[10:11] <Le_Vert_> because it causes network connection reset
[10:11] <Le_Vert_> and thus, break the /
[10:18] <Le_Vert_> but there's still something I don't like
[10:18] <Le_Vert_> with the livecd, I get a gnome session
[10:18] <Le_Vert_> with the pxe/nfs boot, I get gdm login screen
[10:19] <Le_Vert_> do you know what's the problem could be ?
[10:20] <cjwatson> are you sure it's set up a tmpfs correctly?
[10:20] <cjwatson> the code that sets up autologin doesn't look like it should care whether it's booting from CD or net
[10:20] <Le_Vert_> tmpfs for what ?
[10:20] <cjwatson> but it will need to write to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf ...
[10:21] <cjwatson> as in, the root filesystem should have ended up as a unionfs containing the read-only squashfs plus a writable tmpfs
[10:21] <Le_Vert_> yes... that's not the case
[10:21] <Le_Vert_> here is how it works for now
[10:22] <Le_Vert_> boot with root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=/path/to/squash/nfs/export ip=dhcp
[10:22] <Le_Vert_> so casper is not used at all
[10:22] <Le_Vert_> so now unionfs
[10:22] <cjwatson> well that won't work
[10:22] <cjwatson> you have to have casper involved :)
[10:22] <Le_Vert_> I guess I'll have to do this by hand
[10:23] <cjwatson> it's not possible to boot an Ubuntu live session without either casper or a reinvention of casper
[10:23] <Le_Vert_> mmmh
[10:23] <Le_Vert_> so what's the right way ?
[10:23] <Le_Vert_> find something a casper'ized initrd ?
[10:23] <cjwatson> well, I sketched it yesterday
[10:23] <cjwatson> what went wrong?
[10:24] <Le_Vert_> dunno, I'm trying to figure out how to use casper for now :p
[10:24] <cjwatson> you should be using /casper/vmlinuz and /casper/initrd.gz from the live CD as the starting point
[10:25] <Le_Vert_> replace ubuntu stock kernel by the livecd one
[10:25] <cjwatson> and pass NETBOOT=nfs NFSROOT=server:/path on the kernel command line
[10:25]  * Le_Vert_ 's giving a try
[10:25] <cjwatson> what's to replace? they're the same
[10:25] <cjwatson> it's the initrd that's special
[10:25] <Le_Vert_> yes and I'm not using the right one :)
[10:25] <Le_Vert_> my kernel/initrd are not using casper at all
[10:25] <cjwatson> like I say, I'm sure the above won't be perfect and there'll be some things to fix, but it's the way to start
[10:25] <Le_Vert_> so I'll just replace them by the livecd one and check if it works better
[10:26] <cjwatson> ah, well that would be a problem yes :)
[10:27] <cjwatson> casper isn't particularly deep magic or anything, but it does do stuff like creating a live session user, setting up autologin, disabling some stuff that doesn't make sense in a live session ...
[10:28] <cjwatson> if you're netbooting, casper will put a 'static' entry in /etc/network/interfaces, which should have the effect of disabling network-manager
[10:28] <cjwatson> s/static/manual
[10:30] <Le_Vert_> that worked better with the ubuntu stock kernel :p
[10:31] <Le_Vert_> initrd doesn't initiliaze the network card
[10:32] <cjwatson> my point is not that this will work directly but that once you get it working you will not have stupid niggling issues like network-manager and autologin
[10:32] <cjwatson> and again, the kernels are bit-for-bit identical
[10:33] <cjwatson> hmm, it seems to try to use busybox ipconfig
[10:33] <cjwatson> is the network device there at all and just not being DHCPed, or is it totally missing (e.g. relevant kernel module not loaded)?
[10:33] <Le_Vert_> eth0: linkup
[10:34] <Le_Vert_> then drop me to a busybox initrd shell
[10:34] <Le_Vert_> (no /sbin/init)
[10:34] <Le_Vert_> can't see and dhcp request
[10:34] <cjwatson> what happens if you do 'ipconfig eth0' from there?
[10:34] <cjwatson> actually, first, what's in /netboot.config?
[10:34] <Le_Vert_> err that's strange
[10:34] <Le_Vert_> ifconfig show me eth0 is okay
[10:34] <cjwatson> ipconfig
[10:35] <cjwatson> that was NOT a typo
[10:35] <Le_Vert_> and even mount show nfsroot has been mounted to /root/cdrom
[10:35] <cjwatson> hmm, ok
[10:35] <cjwatson> /casper.log please?
[10:35] <Le_Vert_> (and I can read /root/cdrom)
[10:35] <cjwatson> ok, so that's a good start
[10:36] <Le_Vert_> full of no such file or directory
[10:36] <Le_Vert_> (casper.log)
[10:41] <Le_Vert_> got it :)
[10:42] <Le_Vert_> got it
[10:42] <Le_Vert_> !!
[10:42] <Le_Vert_> :)
[10:43] <Le_Vert_> You really want to export the iso mounted, not the squashfs image
[10:54] <cjwatson> sorry, had to clean up after the dog (don't ask)
[10:54] <cjwatson> yes, you're quite right - sorry about that, my mistake :-/
[11:04] <Le_Vert_> no problem
[11:04] <Le_Vert_> you ware really nice to help me through this success :)
[11:23] <cjwatson> wow, did it just work after that?
[11:24] <cjwatson> I've created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot as a starting point for documenting this
[12:44] <Le_Vert_> yes cjwatson
[12:44] <Le_Vert_> it does work :)
[12:44] <Le_Vert_> I just made an initial pressed config based on evand one
[12:45] <Le_Vert_> ps: no need to copy, mounting the iso as loop is enough
[12:45] <Le_Vert_> you have to pass boot=casper too
[12:45] <Le_Vert_> (kernel parameter)
[12:47] <Le_Vert_> however ubiquity failed (partman broke)
[12:47] <cjwatson> ok, made those changes. I think for some people copying will be more convenient as then they won't have to arrange for the ISO to be loop-mounted on every boot
[12:48] <Le_Vert_> are you sure ubiquity can be partially presseded ?
[12:48] <cjwatson> (direct loop-mounting is less worrying if squashfs isn't involved)
[12:48] <cjwatson> Le_Vert_: please show me (a) preseed file with passwords removed (b) /var/log/syslog
[12:49] <cjwatson> yes, I am sure it can be partially preseeded; but not all combinations will necessarily work :-) and you might be running into some other problem
[12:49] <Le_Vert_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/3472/
[12:49] <Le_Vert_> (ps: you can add quiet slash as kernel parameters too ;))
[12:49] <cjwatson> slash?
[12:49] <cjwatson> oh, splash
[12:49] <Le_Vert_> this presseed file is supposed to do everything, except disk partitionning and user account creation
[12:50] <Le_Vert_> (yes splash, sorry)
[12:50] <Le_Vert_> (and I guess root should be exported with no_root_squash)
[12:50] <Le_Vert_> (I didn't give a try without this option but I bet it will fail)
[12:51] <cjwatson> yeah
[12:52] <cjwatson> preseed file looks fine, need syslog
[12:52] <Le_Vert_> yep but I can't get a shell :D
[12:53] <Le_Vert_> I'm pretty sure ctrl+alt+fX in vmware is ctrl+fX or alt+fX
[12:53] <Le_Vert_> but none drop me to a console tty
[12:53] <Le_Vert_> :/
[12:53] <cjwatson> ctrl-alt-shift-f1
[12:53] <cjwatson> or ctrl-alt-space ctrl-alt-f1
[12:54] <Le_Vert_> err I'm so stupid sometimes
[12:54] <Le_Vert_> syslog on the way....
[12:54] <cjwatson> alternatively, cancelling the installer should drop you into a normal session
[12:55] <Le_Vert_> it doesn't
[12:55] <Le_Vert_> (probably because of auto-ubiquity kernel parameter)
[12:56] <cjwatson> for testing purposes I'd advise launching the installer manually from a shell
[12:56] <cjwatson> it'll get rather tedious otherwise
[12:56] <cjwatson> ubiquity --automatic
[12:57] <Le_Vert_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/3474/
[12:57] <Le_Vert_> looks like being a floppy issue
[12:58] <Le_Vert_> but none is defined in the vmware virtual computer
[12:58] <cjwatson> red herring
[12:58] <Le_Vert_> ?
[12:59] <cjwatson> not a floppy issue, that just happens to be adjacent in the logs
[12:59] <cjwatson> hmm
[13:00] <Le_Vert_> File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py", line 1122, in watch_debconf_fd_helper < fd_helper = floopy disk helper ?
[13:00] <cjwatson> could you run parted and see if it recognises the disk?
[13:00] <cjwatson> fd => file descriptor. Forget about floppies. They are not relevant to this.
[13:00] <Le_Vert_> okay :)
[13:01] <cjwatson> (you might need to run parted as root to let it poke at partition tables)
[13:02] <Le_Vert_> parted read the disk successfully
[13:02] <Le_Vert_> it's a debian etch installation on it
[13:02] <Le_Vert_> with ext3/swap/xfs filesystems
[13:02] <Le_Vert_> fdisk read it too
[13:03] <cjwatson> ok, could you reboot without auto-ubiquity, run 'ubiquity --automatic --debug' from a shell, reproduce, and get /var/log/installer/debug?
[13:03] <Le_Vert_> off course I do ;)
[13:03] <Le_Vert_> minute...
[13:04] <Le_Vert_> another feature request...
[13:04] <Le_Vert_> could you please add console-data into the cd root ?
[13:04] <Le_Vert_> that would be really great if azerty keyboard owner could use loadkeys :p
[13:05] <cjwatson> console-data is obsolete
[13:05] <cjwatson> (in Ubuntu)
[13:05] <cjwatson> bug 83487 is scheduled to be fixed in hardy
[13:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 83487 in console-setup "old-style loadkeys invocations no longer work" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83487
[13:06] <Le_Vert_> okay :)
[13:06] <cjwatson> I'd suggest putting console-setup/layoutcode=fr on the kernel command line for the time being
[13:07] <Le_Vert_> okay :)
[13:07] <Le_Vert_> starting ubiquity in debug mode....
[13:10] <Le_Vert_> http://www.le-vert.net/divers/debug
[13:16] <Le_Vert_> no clue ?
[13:17] <cjwatson> evand: ^-- looks like the seen flag hack has some problems with partman - maybe we need to avoid questions being accidentally marked as seen when they're never presented to the user?
[13:17] <cjwatson> Le_Vert_: right, while partial preseeding should *in general* work, looks like it has some problems in this specific case
[13:18] <Le_Vert_> sounds bad
[13:18] <Le_Vert_> I may pressed the question as not seed ?
[13:18] <Le_Vert_> s/seed/seen/
[13:18] <cjwatson> no, it's getting marked that way due to internal actions
[13:20] <Le_Vert_> but that internal process may be overriden by a user preseed ?
[13:22] <cjwatson> no
[13:23] <cjwatson> it's a bg
[13:23] <cjwatson> bug
[13:23] <cjwatson> ubiquity uses d-i as much as possible in order to reduce the amount of code duplication involved
[13:24] <cjwatson> but the UI models are quite different, and resolving those differences can be difficult in some places
[13:24] <cjwatson> this is one of those places
[13:24] <Le_Vert_> okay....
[13:25] <Le_Vert_> so no preseed
[13:25] <Le_Vert_> or all preseed
[13:27] <Le_Vert_> could you please report this bug and add me as 'cc' ?
[13:27] <Le_Vert_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:29] <cjwatson> I think things other than partitioning should work OK if partially preseeded
[13:29] <cjwatson> it's just that the partitioner is weird, as always :-/
[13:29] <cjwatson> you're launchpad.net/~gandalf-le-vert?
[13:29] <Le_Vert_> yes
[13:30] <Le_Vert_> I never created an account there
[13:30] <Le_Vert_> I think it got imported from debian
[13:30] <Le_Vert_> cause I have some packages there :)
[13:30] <cjwatson> :-)
[13:34] <Le_Vert_> i'm not really aware of the ubuntu specific stuff
[13:34] <Le_Vert_> like launchpad and ubiquity
[13:34] <Le_Vert_> that's why I think you'll be a really better bug reporter ;)
[13:37] <cjwatson> bug 182004
[13:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182004 in ubiquity "partitioner fails if partially preseeded due to seen flag madness" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182004
[13:57] <Le_Vert_> thanks :)
[13:57] <Le_Vert_> I'll just have to wait that evand fix this bug :p
[14:22] <evand> hooray.  I'll look into it after I release a new ubiquity.  cjwatson, do you mind if I release a new oem-config as well?
[14:27] <cjwatson> go ahead
[14:27] <evand> ok
[14:37] <CIA-8> ubiquity: evand * r2403 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[14:37] <CIA-8> ubiquity: * Automatic update of included source packages: console-setup
[14:37] <CIA-8> ubiquity:  1.19ubuntu2, partman-auto-loop 0ubuntu12.
[14:51] <Le_Vert_> evand: do you think the fix will be backportable to 7.10 ?
[14:53] <evand> We don't backport new releases of ubiquity, but I suspect the patch will apply cleanly to 7.10.
[14:56] <Le_Vert_> okay...
[14:56] <CIA-8> ubiquity: evand * r2404 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.7.3
[14:56] <Le_Vert_> then I'll backport the fix to ubiquity package or just apply the diff against the ubiquity binary directly :)
[14:57] <Le_Vert_> I'll see
[14:58] <evand> To clarify, we don't make new releases of ubiquity for older versions of Ubuntu because nothing updates the installer from the archive before running, nor do we release new CDs (LTS aside).
[14:58] <evand> But yes, I imagine it wont be hard to give you an updated deb.
[14:58] <evand> Sorry about the lack of clarity on that.
[14:59] <Le_Vert_> that sounds great ;)
[15:00] <Le_Vert_> any estimated ETA for the fix ?
[15:00] <Le_Vert_> I'd go ahead with that project asap ;)
[15:00] <evand> honestly, no idea.  I've read through your conversation with cjwatson, but I have not had a chance to take a hard look at the problem yet.
[15:02] <Le_Vert_> just boot the ubiquity with the preseed file attached, and the bug will appear :)
[15:03] <evand> heh, indeed
[15:03] <Le_Vert_> anyway, thanks a lot to all d-i team for your help :)
[15:05] <evand> you're welcome
[15:42] <CIA-8> ubiquity: evand * r2405 ubiquity/ (configure configure.ac): bump to 1.7.4
[16:00] <CIA-8> oem-config: evand * r394 oem-config/ (aclocal.m4 d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[16:00] <CIA-8> oem-config: * Automatic update of included source packages: console-setup
[16:00] <CIA-8> oem-config:  1.19ubuntu2.
[16:12] <CIA-8> oem-config: evand * r395 oem-config/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.25
[16:23] <evand> uh oh
[16:25] <cjwatson> ?
[16:25] <evand> cjwatson: I missed that configure{|.ac} was at 1.24 and didn't bump it to 1.25 with that upload.  I'm not sure what the correct path is here.  Should I just upload 1.26 with the correct versioning?
[16:25] <cjwatson> it's not critically important
[16:25] <cjwatson> just bump it in bzr
[16:25] <evand> ok
[16:25] <cjwatson> I imagine nobody else will notice
[16:26] <cjwatson> it just affects --help and --version, possibly even only for ./configure
[16:26] <evand> ah, fantastic
[16:26] <cjwatson> I'd actually prefer autoconf to suck it out of debian/changelog automatically, and I did try to implement that once, but it wasn't working very well
[16:26] <cjwatson> I might try it again at some point
[16:31] <evand> hm, that would be quite neat
[16:34] <CIA-8> oem-config: evand * r396 oem-config/ (configure configure.ac): Bump to 1.26
[17:44] <xivulon> evand hi
[17:44] <xivulon> evand hi
[17:44] <evand> hi xivulon
[17:44] <xivulon> did you have any chance to start tackling the patches?
[17:45] <evand> xivulon: I looked them over and they appear to be fine.  I'll start merging them in today.
[17:46] <xivulon> I'll try to be on chat/jabber in case you have question
[17:46] <xivulon> s
[17:47] <xivulon> a few upstream patches are duplicated in lupin-support
[17:47] <evand> ok.  Worst case scenario, if I can't reach you and have a question, I'll just email you and hold off on that particular patch.
[17:47] <evand> oh, you needed this by the weekend though, right?
[17:47] <xivulon> that will need to be cleaned up, after the first round of marges
[17:47] <xivulon> ideally yes, so I can try to play with wubi over the w/e
[17:48] <evand> ok
[17:48] <xivulon> thanks a lot
[17:49] <evand> you're welcome
[17:53] <xivulon> To make things easier you can work in this order
[17:53] <xivulon> 1) merge ~ago/partman-auto-loop/lupin-support  with partman-auto-loop
[17:53] <xivulon> that takes care of 4 separate bug reports
[17:54] <xivulon> 2) use the new lupin/hardy branch (no need to spend too much time over lupin-support since that will be put on diet)
[17:55] <xivulon> that affects 2 packages lupin/casper and lupin-support
[17:57] <xivulon> 3) grub patches:<PHONE_NUMBER>72
[17:58] <xivulon> 4) init.d patches<PHONE_NUMBER>69
[17:59] <xivulon> 5) poke mjg59 over 176112
[18:00] <xivulon> 6) poke steve over 140458
[18:00] <cjwatson> ROOTFSTYPE and LOOPFSTYPE would be set if those options were passed.
[18:00] <cjwatson> but it seems reasonable to do the pidofs regardless. I've reassigned that bug to the correct package.
[18:01] <xivulon> thanks
[18:01] <cjwatson> I really doubt 176112 is going to happen. I think you get to live with suspend-to-ram not working
[18:01] <cjwatson> at least I wouldn't rely on it being fixed
[18:01] <xivulon> :(
[18:02] <xivulon> my guess is that there is a similar situation to the one we fixed with sendsigs.omit
[18:03] <xivulon> whereby fuse/ntfs-3g are stopped too early
[18:03] <cjwatson> suspending to RAM doesn't unmount filesystems or kill processes
[18:04] <xivulon> do not know how it works internally, but I guess it must somehow freeze current processes to get a memory snapshot
[18:05] <cjwatson> (well, it kills *some* processes like dhclient, but not these ones)
[18:08] <cjwatson> suspend-to-RAM doesn't take a memory snapshot
[18:08] <cjwatson> it turns off devices and puts the CPU into a low-power state
[18:08] <cjwatson> you're thinking of suspend-to-disk (a.k.a. hibernate)
[18:10] <xivulon> you are right
[18:10] <xivulon> you are right
[18:11] <evand> which mjg59 seems to think is broken anyway
[18:12] <xivulon> I thought I remembered something matthew said about the "ordering" with which things were processed
[18:12] <xivulon> hibernation has additional problems, in that on top of fuse, has to work with swap on a file
[19:31] <evand> cjwatson: Do you have any thoughts on bug 177868?  Specifically, I'm concerned about having to pull in a format script for every filesystem we want to work with.  Then again, I don't see that being much of a problem as we only really care about ext3.
[19:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177868 in wubi "When loopfiles are used mkfs has to target the file and not the containing device" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177868
[19:36] <cjwatson> evand: I think unfortunately we are going to have to modify all the partman-* filesystem implementations; it's annoying but hard to avoid
[19:37] <cjwatson> evand: the patch there is wrong though
[19:37] <cjwatson> evand: there's no reason to run losetup; the loop device is saved in the 'loop' file mentioned there precisely so that things that partman-ext3 can get at it
[19:37] <cjwatson> so it should just check for the loop file and use its contents
[19:38] <evand> yeah, I thought the first bit might be an option, but I wasn't sure if you wanted to keep them clean of this.
[19:38] <evand> ok
[19:38] <cjwatson> preferably, it should arrange to set $device to the loop device name so that you don't have to duplicate the mkfs.ext3 code
[19:39] <cjwatson> I *want* to keep them clean of this, but I'm not sure we can :-/
[19:39] <evand> heh
[19:39] <evand> indeed
[19:39] <cjwatson> having the filesystem implementations out of sync in that kind of way is bad mojo
[19:39] <evand> yeah, I figured as much
[21:19] <evand> cjwatson: if you have a free moment, can you give this a quick look over: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3488/ .  Always forcing isn't going to break some case that I haven't considered, will it?
[21:21] <evand> hm, that's a silly question.  Nevermind then.
[21:25] <cjwatson> evand: I *think* that's OK, but if you're worried, you could do force=-F inside the first if and then pass $force (without double-quotes) to mkfs.ext3
[21:26] <evand> ah, good point
[21:33] <evand> ugh, I just made a mess by not realizing that we had synced the last few versions of partman-ext3
[21:33]  * evand goes to unbreak things
[21:52] <xivulon> do you prefer that I clean-up lupin-support now?
[21:53] <xivulon> since it contains some of the upstream-patches
[21:56] <evand> sure, if you so desire.
[22:43] <xivulon> done but cannot connect to launchpad
[23:02] <ago> evand lupin/hardy rev 79
[23:18] <evand> ok, thanks