[04:38] <RAOF> Ah, of course. *That's* why you don't do a compile in an actual armhf chroot.
[06:41]  * RAOF apparently has an xorgRootess
[06:43] <duflu> RAOF: +l ?
[06:44] <RAOF> No; typo :)
[06:44] <duflu> +Mir ?
[06:44] <RAOF> But it seemed like a funny typo.
[06:44] <RAOF> This *should* work, and be rootless...
[07:24] <penk> hello, I'm installing unity-system-compositor & xmir on amd64 trusty, everything seems running fine under /var/log/lightdm, but the screen is blank.. any idea?
[07:26] <penk> # tarball of log https://mega.co.nz/#!hMxD1ArC!e7AevxbOyidBBaZZAlXP7SoZdkMlT8b7Qzi3dDel2OI
[07:30] <duflu> penk: I can't see any reason in those logs. Could you please "ubuntu-bug unity-system-compositor" ?
[07:30] <penk> duflu: sure I'll get to that
[07:31] <duflu> penk: Everything works without unity-system-compositor?
[07:31] <penk> duflu: yes, with radeon driver
[07:31] <duflu> Hmm, I should revive my radeon machine and update it
[07:31] <penk> duflu: I can hear the lightdm sound, but the screen is black
[07:32] <duflu> penk: Is the monitor LED showing it's asleep (like orange instead of green)?
[07:32] <penk> duflu: I'm pretty sure the screen & system is awake
[07:33] <duflu> penk: So you can see the backlight is on, but pixels are black?
[07:33] <penk> duflu: exactly
[07:34] <duflu> penk: When you can, please try "Ctrl+Alt+F1". Can you reach the VT that way? Also please try installing mir-demos and running "mir_demo_client_egltriangle". Does it appear on top of the blackness?
[07:35] <penk> duflu: vt switching is working
[07:35] <penk> duflu: sometimes the compositor gives me VT I/O error though
[07:35] <penk> duflu: I'll try mir-demos later
[07:35] <duflu> That's probably not cool
[07:52] <penk> duflu: I see mir_demo_client_egltriangle running on the screen
[07:53] <duflu> penk: Cool. Then the bug is just XMir. Please log it against that project
[07:53] <penk> duflu: got it, thx
[09:08] <duflu> Now showing in a browser near you: http://timvideos.us/wool
[09:24] <anpok> duflu: what is shown next?
[09:24] <duflu> anpok: Too late I think ... http://linux.conf.au/programme/schedule
[09:25] <anpok> oh zero copy composition
[09:26] <anpok> kdub: I could not reproduce the error, but hey got a different one instead - mir_integration_tests fails to create a fb
[09:27] <duflu> That's OK. Keith being Keith only talked about X. And when asked about something other than X (Wayland) he said he wasn't interested. And had nothing to say
[09:27] <anpok> hehe
[09:50] <alan_g> duflu: @bug 1239955 on CI - have we asked #ubuntu-ci-eng if they can poke the hardware?
[09:52] <duflu> alan_g: Assuming it's the same cause. There might be other triggers...
[09:54] <anpok> on n10 that test always fails for me
[09:54] <anpok> but with a different exception
[09:57] <anpok> here gralloc is queried for a framebuffer_device_t, a pixel format is taken from that structure
[09:57] <anpok> the pixel format is RGBA_8888
[09:57] <anpok> but the no EGLConfig that is querried matches that visual id
[09:58] <anpok> the most similar one is BGRA_8888
[09:59] <anpok> the other thing I noticed was that whenver i run the tests in order the display is turned off around that test..
[09:59] <anpok> seems like the tests before that one cause that in some way?
[10:04] <anpok> forget the last two statements - just some buffers are flipped where two of the three are black. display is not turned off..
[10:21] <alan_g> duflu: it isn't just the one device. The difference seems to be they moved to trusty-proposed 119 today. Gonna try that here.
[10:21] <duflu> Fair enough. We don't have much device-specific code
[12:42] <alan_g> alf__: I'm not sure what to try next with bug 1239955 (which is blocking CI) - any suggestions before I MP disabling the test?
[12:44] <alf__> alan_g: @"Initially I saw intermittent failures if unity8 wasn't stopped", is unity8 not being stopped while running our tests in CI?
[12:44] <alan_g> alf__: it is stopped - I've checked
[12:47] <alf__> alan_g: does "sudo powerd-cli display on bright &" make any difference locally?
[12:48] <alan_g> alf__: yes. Seems to work as well as the power button
[12:51] <alan_g> alf__: revise that - still failing intermittently
[12:53] <alf__> alan_g: no more ideas off the top of my head
[12:57] <alan_g> alf__: OK I'll MP disabling the test as a workaround.
[13:41] <anpok> alf__: do you have a nexus10?
[13:41] <alf__> anpok: yes
[13:41] <alf__> anpok: ?
[13:42] <anpok> do the integration tests run for you on the device?
[13:42] <alf__> anpok: haven't tried recently... do you want me to?
[13:43] <anpok> it would be nices
[13:43] <anpok> -s
[13:43] <anpok> because I dont think that my issues are hardware related
[13:43] <alf__> anpok: ok
[13:44] <anpok> I believe that the egl config selection needs a different logic
[13:50] <alf__> anpok: ok, so should I just run the integration tests from development-branch or do you need some special branch/config?
[13:50] <anpok> just that
[13:50] <anpok> or even just limit to the AndroidGPUDisplay.* tests
[14:01] <alf__> anpok: I get "could not select EGL config for use with framebuffer"
[14:01] <alf__> anpok: for gpu_display_ok_with_gles
[14:01] <anpok> me too
[14:03] <anpok> it happens because we try to select an egl config with the same "visual id" as the one mentioned in the framebuffer_device_t
[14:09] <alf__> anpok: I am not familiar with what visual id means for Android, but on the desktop it's not directly related to a pixel format
[14:10] <anpok> hm it seems like on android it matches the pixel format integer found in system/graphics.h
[14:12] <anpok>     HAL_PIXEL_FORMAT_RGBA_8888          = 1,
[14:12] <anpok>     HAL_PIXEL_FORMAT_RGBX_8888          = 2,
[14:13] <alf__> anpok: it seems because our code checks for it or because you found some reference of that fact elsewhere? :)
[14:16] <anpok> our code checks for it :)
[14:16] <anpok> .. and the values seem to make sense
[14:16] <anpok> so docs would be awesome :)
[14:17] <alf__> anpok: if a print out the id values I get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720922/ (which supports this)
[14:17] <anpok> yes
[14:19] <alf__> anpok: so we are looking for RGBA8888 but nexus 10 provides BGRA8888
[14:20] <anpok> or RGBX for the frame buffer
[14:21] <anpok> I wonder if is necessary to have an exact match here
[14:23] <anpok> I guess that code path is only used in the unit tests..
[14:23] <anpok> s/unit/integration
[14:30] <anpok> hm the android gl_context could also make use of the surfaceless context class
[14:37] <alf__> anpok: the framebuffer_device_t reports that it uses RGBA8888 but Nexus 10 doesn't seem able to render to it. As you said this is the fallback (non-HWC) path, which Nexus 10 probably won't ever need to use.
[15:03] <anpok> ok if a different one is picked posting silently just fails
[15:49] <kgunn> racarr: anyway...the more i thot about the autopilot input prob thomi & Saviq were talking about....
[15:49] <kgunn> i got confused..
[15:49] <kgunn> is it really the at the events go missing ?
[15:50] <racarr> it soundslike the device
[15:50] <kgunn> or is it just that the restart causes mir to get confused b/c the "rules" aren't realy changed...even thos inotify says ok?
[15:50] <racarr> doesntget probed properly
[15:50] <kgunn> ...or are there really 2 problems both there
[15:50] <kgunn> racarr: ok...so more that latter
[15:50] <racarr> mm I think so
[15:51] <kgunn> someone (i think thomi) was scaring me that we had a 2nd prob of events going missing (even after proper probing)
[15:58] <alf__> racarr: is something "eating" your spaces and apostrophes or it it just quick typing?
[15:58] <alf__> is it
[16:00] <kgunn> i'm quessing an old tea spill on the space bar
[16:03] <racarr> alf__: Space key eaten mostly
[16:04] <racarr> via tea yes lol
[16:22] <kdub> robotfuel, where can i find the script that sets up the phone on CI?
[16:23] <robotfuel> kdub: pulling it up now...
[16:25] <kdub> thanks
[16:25] <robotfuel> kdub: lp:~chris.gagnon/+junk/mir-medium-test-runner-for-jenkins
[16:26] <robotfuel> kdub: http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Mir/job/mir-mediumtests-runner-mako/configure if you need more info
[16:37] <kgunn> kdub: fyi...i was gonna try the fab-4 integration tests...since its now in archive, will likely ressurect the kill surfflinger topic as soon as i have confidence
[16:38] <kdub> not sure what that means :)
[16:39] <kdub> like, remove sf from the image?
[16:41] <kgunn> kdub: well...at least stop having it available for unity8....only as a tool for bringup
[16:41] <kgunn> meaning, we won't be putting effort in maintaining unity8 code
[16:41] <kgunn> which enables surf flinger
[16:41] <kgunn> to be reliably used
[16:43] <ogra_> kdub, mainly drop the ability to run it
[16:43] <ogra_> as i understood (as a plumber)
[16:46] <kdub> right, sounds okay to me
[17:56] <brainwash_> is it possible to enable hardware cursor manually when using XMir? why is it still not supported, any reasons?
[18:01] <kgunn> alf__: ^ if you're on
[18:02] <brainwash_> I really would love to use XMir, but a slow/laggy mouse cursor is a no-go
[18:03] <kgunn> brainwash_: right, thanks for trying xmir and using...just a matter of effort really, we've shifted our focus towards
[18:04] <kgunn> building out features around tablet/unity8 shell
[18:04] <kgunn> since xmir didn't make it in by default...the way
[18:04] <kgunn> scheduling lines up wrt releases etc
[18:04] <brainwash_> so XMir gets abandoned slowly?
[18:04] <kgunn> it makes more sense for us to pour it on for unity8-mir & "rootless" x on unity8-mir
[18:05] <brainwash_> rootless like xwayland, right?
[18:05] <kgunn> brainwash_: not abandoned per se, but feature stagnant
[18:05] <kgunn> brainwash_: rootless will leverage a lot of what was done in mir
[18:06] <kgunn> oops/mir/xmir
[18:06] <brainwash_> alright, but I'm still interested if hardware cursor support is possible :)
[18:06] <kgunn> brainwash_: was trying to hail someone smarter than me :)
[18:07] <kgunn> brainwash_: depending on your timezone...if you pop in say in about 8 hours or so...you'd get a better answer
[18:07] <kgunn> when the australs come onlien
[18:07] <kgunn> online even
[18:08] <brainwash_> alight, I'll setup my server then and rejoin with my irc bouncer, so I'll don't miss the answer, thanks :)
[18:08] <kgunn> brainwash_: sorry i wasn't better help...
[18:08] <kgunn> again thanks for trying out xmir
[19:21] <mterry_> ricmm_, poke about libhybris
[20:51] <ricmm_> mterry_: wip
[21:48]  * kgunn hugs ricmm_
[21:50] <kdub> rsalveti, are you okay with https://code.launchpad.net/~kdub/mir/less-3rd-party/+merge/199851
[21:50] <kdub> basically making mir a dependency of android-headers
[21:50] <rsalveti> hm, lemmecheck
[21:53] <rsalveti> kdub: looks good
[21:53] <kdub> cool, thanks!
[21:54] <kdub> *making mir depend-on android-headers, rather
[22:12] <RAOF> brainwash_: Yeah, HW cursor support is possible & needed.
[22:12] <RAOF> brainwash_: It'll get done before we're done, but with phone/tablet being the current focus for Mir development it's understandably lower importance :)
[22:13] <RAOF> brainwash_: On the other hand, it could get done sooner if you wanted to do it :)
[22:14] <brainwash_> RAOF: so it's not a trivial thing :/
[22:14] <RAOF> Oh, it's reasonably simple.
[22:14] <brainwash_> on top of that, I lack the knowledge to implement this
[22:39] <RAOF> For those not watching #wayland, http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014, is super-cool.
[22:50] <kgunn> yeah.. RAOF that is pretty cool
[22:50] <kgunn> and giving it away...hmmm
[22:51] <RAOF> Apparently available on all recent AMD GPUs, too.


[15:55]  * skaet waves
[16:00]  * joshuahoover waves
[16:01] <pitti> hey
[16:01] <skaet> hi all,   time to start
[16:01] <skaet> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
[16:02] <skaet> Welcome to the start of the release meetings for Oneiric Ocelot.
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Agenda is at:
[16:02] <skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-05-25
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
[16:02] <skaet> We'll be following the order given in the agenda (and there's been a little bit of reshuffling, so please check).  The one new addition is we will be starting off with a Toolchain status update.
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-05-25
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Release Calendar (with updates from UDS) can be found at:
[16:02] <skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Feature Planning Freeze was yesterday 5/26), so we've got a pretty good feeling for the work items now, and lots of interesting work to keep us busy.  :)
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Alpha 1 is scheduled for next Thursday (June 2nd).
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
[16:02] <skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
[16:02] <skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 1 are at:
[16:02] <skaet> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/oneiric-alpha-1
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/oneiric-alpha-1
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> EOL's approaching:
[16:02] <skaet> -Dapper Drake (6.06) - EOL on 6/1
[16:02] <skaet> .
[16:02] <skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
[16:02] <skaet> questions?
[16:02] <skaet> ..
[16:03]  * skaet looks around for some o/ 's.   but not seeing any so moving on.
[16:04] <skaet> [Topic] Toolchain update - doko_
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - doko_
[16:05] <skaet> ok,  I guess we'll see if doko_ chimes in later.
[16:05]  * cjwatson hopes doko knew this was coming :)
[16:05]  * skaet had a long discussion with him on it yesterday :)
[16:06] <skaet> doko wanted to make sure folks were aware of the FTB and mismatches.   Links can be found in the agenda
[16:06] <skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
[16:06] <jibel> We are on track for Alpha1 testing next week
[16:07] <skaet> :)
[16:07] <jibel> Smoketest of latest daily didn't reveal any disaster for this stage of the release
[16:07] <jibel> (meaning the system installs and the user can log in in both Unity and Unity-2D)
[16:07] <jibel> ..
[16:07] <skaet> Thanks jibel.
[16:08] <skaet> Can you take a pass at the agenda and update the links for the QA side?
[16:08] <skaet> for next time.
[16:08] <jibel> yes, noted
[16:08] <skaet> any other questions?
[16:08] <skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - ara?
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - ara?
[16:09]  * skaet doesn't see ara in the channel,  moving on.
[16:09] <skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
[16:09] <jdstrand> o/
[16:10] <jdstrand> err
[16:10]  * jdstrand waves :)
[16:10] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[16:10] <jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
[16:10] <jdstrand> Our blueprints and work items should be in order, and we've started on a few a few of them, most notably the apparmor dependency on perl on the ISO. That is well in hand and hopefully we'll have that dependency removed within the next week or so.
[16:10] <jdstrand> Beyond that, not a lot to report that is of interest to this meeting.
[16:10] <jdstrand> ..
[16:10] <skaet> thanks jdstrand.   any questions?
[16:11] <skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
[16:11] <ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
[16:11] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[16:11] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:11] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:11] <ogasawara> The Oneiric kernel is currently at v2.6.39-3.9 which represents the v2.6.39 upstream release.  Even though we'll be targetting a 2.6.40 kernel for Oneriric, I intend to keep us on v2.6.39 for the Alpha-1 release.  I do plan to upload one more kernel today.  This will bring in some kernel config clean ups, additional suspend/resume debugging functionality, and re-enablement of dm-raid45.  We remain below the burn down lin
[16:11] <ogasawara> e for our Alpha-1 work items and are on track to complete them on time as sheduled.
[16:11] <ogasawara> Of the bugs called out in the agenda, status is as follows:
[16:11] <ogasawara> 754744 - Assigned to kernel dev and under investigation.  Also forwarded to upstream.
[16:11] <ogasawara> 542660 - Assigned to kernel dev.  Recent comments indicate possible workaround.  Confirmation is still needed against Oneiric.
[16:11] <ogasawara> 760131 - This is still under investigation upstream to isolate the issue.  We'll pull in the fix once it is available.
[16:12] <ogasawara> Questions?
[16:12] <ogasawara> ..
[16:12] <skaet> Thanks ogasawara.  :)
[16:12] <skaet> Sounds good re: kernel plans.  thanks.
[16:12] <skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
[16:13] <cjwatson> Hi folks.
[16:13] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/O#Foundations has a summary of our plans for this cycle.
[16:13] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-foundations.html - making progress already, but not much interesting to point out yet.
[16:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-foundations.html - making progress already, but not much interesting to point out yet.
[16:13] <cjwatson> I don't have much to say about the six bugs on the agenda right now.  Most of them have assignees and are being worked on at one level or another.  For Alpha 1, I think only the ca-certificates-java bug is truly critical.
[16:13] <cjwatson> I'd like to mention http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ for those who didn't see my mail to ubuntu-devel.  It should be useful to anyone making library interface changes.
[16:13] <cjwatson> CD build status is kind of amber right now.  Most images are building as of late this week, but the desktop CD has some problems; those should be sorted out later today, and installability smoke-testing can happen if people are feeling enthusiastic over the weekend.  Kubuntu ARM preinstalled images are breaking due to language-support reorganisations.
[16:14] <cjwatson> Images are very oversized right now.  We may not be able to do anything about that for Alpha 1.
[16:14] <cjwatson> Our one blueprint aimed at Alpha 1 is foundations-o-live-build.  That's a stretch goal for Alpha 1, and may slip; it's currently 50% complete.  I know the ARM team is waiting for this with bated breath, though.
[16:14] <cjwatson> ..
[16:14] <skaet> thanks cjwatson. :)
[16:14] <skaet> appreciate the build status of Amber.
[16:15] <cjwatson> I'm not too concerned; good to hear from jibel that smoke-tests are more or less OK.
[16:15] <skaet> any specific help you're looking for?
[16:15] <skaet> re: smoketests,  agreed.  :0
[16:15] <skaet> :) even.
[16:16] <cjwatson> Just to echo what I'm sure would be doko's comments that it will help if everyone pays attention to build failures throughout the cycle.  At this point, several of them are due to packages not having been merged from unstable yet, and that's easy for domain experts to fix.
[16:16] <cjwatson> Nobody expects perfection at this point, but it's good to keep on top of things.
[16:16] <skaet> there are also 32 packages in main that fail to build, based on what I was seeing last night.
[16:17] <skaet> agreed,  its good to keep on top.  :)
[16:17] <skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
[16:17] <Daviey> Hello!
[16:17] <skaet> :)
[16:17] <cjwatson> Yes; many of those are dep-waits, and are also in component-mismatches.
[16:17] <Daviey> Quite a short one this week!
[16:17] <Daviey> We have mostly been spec'ing and merging.
[16:17] <Daviey> Our feature promise seems to be complete, and the specific WI's seem to be complete and mostly approved.  There are a couple of outstanding questions, which are being resolved.
[16:17] <Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server
[16:17] <Daviey> We are just starting to tackle WI/feature work, and therefore we are not looking at metrics at this stage.
[16:17] <Daviey> There are not any feature commitments set for Alpha 1 at this stage.
[16:17] <Daviey> Thanks.
[16:17] <Daviey> ..
[16:18] <skaet> thanks Daviey.
[16:18] <skaet> any questions?
[16:18] <skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra_
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra_
[16:18] <ogra_> oops
[16:18] <skaet> lol
[16:18] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[16:19] <ogra_> Work was done on an ac100 tegra2 image http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/tegra/2.6.37/ and https://launchpad.net/~ac100/+archive/ppa saw their first integration work for natty which will be ported to oneiric.
[16:19] <ogra_> The whole team worked on the PPA Panda build cluster, GrueMaster managed in countless hours to make usbboot work so we dont need to use addon HW to disable the SD cards.
[16:19] <ogra_> The whole team worked on preparing specs.
[16:19] <ogra_> unity-2d was handed over to the desktop team
[16:19] <ogra_> headless images build, netbook 8which will turn into desktop soon) dont yet ... due to archive skew
[16:20] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html has not picked up all specs yet
[16:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html has not picked up all specs yet
[16:20] <ogra_> thats all from me ...
[16:20] <ogra_> ..
[16:20] <skaet> Thanks ogra_  :)
[16:21] <skaet> are we likely to be able to put out arm images for alpha1?
[16:21] <ogra_> well, beyond being completely untested, i think headless should at least be fine
[16:21] <skaet> if so, which ones have best chance?
[16:22] <ogra_> and netbook as long as we dont change the seed right now should still function as in natty
[16:22] <cjwatson> ubuntu-netbook doesn't seem to have a build yet; I haven't checked why
[16:22] <ogra_> cjwatson, skew of unity packages
[16:22] <cjwatson> ah, yes, I remember deleting that mail now
[16:22] <ogra_> i plan to keep everything as is for A1
[16:22] <cjwatson> that shouldn't be a major problem then
[16:22] <Daviey> delete mail (!)
[16:22] <ogra_> so the chances should be good to make A!
[16:22] <cjwatson> Daviey: only the boring ones :)
[16:23] <ogra_> between A1 and 2 we will do the massive moves
[16:23]  * Daviey makes an effort to make his emails more entertaining.
[16:23] <skaet> thanks ogra_,  expectations now set.  ;)
[16:23] <skaet> any other questions?
[16:23] <ogra_> Daviey, i hope not by adding colors and gifs :)
[16:24] <skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
[16:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
[16:24] <pitti> l desktop blueprints with work items are drafted and approved. The last BP missing is UbuntuSpec:desktop-o-packaging-branches: This is just an informational workflow discussion about the style of our desktop-ish bzr branches. It was pretty much decided in the last desktop team meeting, but we want to give Robert a chance to respond, as he brought it up. Robert has also been down with Ubuflu, so we
[16:24] <pitti> need to finish this next week.
[16:24] <pitti> We landed a major chunk of GNOME 3 in oneiric now, so far it's holding together reasonably well for this early stage. The remainder is blocked on porting Unity and the indicators to GTK 3. Note that the latter is a major transition and will cause some uninstallability and trouble for a few days.
[16:24] <pitti> Note that `language-support-*` metapackages are finally gone now, we now only use `check-language-support` dynamically. I updated all the seeds etc., but it might still break less obvious things somewhere.
[16:24] <pitti> Unity 2D and Qt are on the daily images.
[16:24] <pitti> CDs are currently 30 MB oversized, and that's not the end of it, as we'll still get the new gallium X.org drivers which will pull llvm. I don't think we'll be able to sort this out by alpha-1, so I propose we'll just release alpha-1 with documented oversizedness.
[16:24] <pitti> Oneiric desktop work: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
[16:24] <pitti> Alpha-1 work: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:24] <pitti> We currently have too many WIs, so we'll need to cut a few.
[16:24] <pitti> this will be discussed on the next meeting
[16:24] <pitti> Sorry, I didn't track RC bugs for oneiric yet. I'll try to catch up with them early next week and update the wiki status
[16:24] <pitti> ..
[16:25] <pitti> my first sentence is missing an "Al" at the front, sorry
[16:25] <skaet> lol
[16:25] <skaet> Thanks pitti.   got the context.  :)
[16:25] <pitti> pedantry++ :)
[16:25] <skaet> ack on the oversized images.   Figured that was likely the case.
[16:26] <skaet> any questions?
[16:26] <pitti> we are now working on reducing them, but frankly I don't yet have an idea how to reclaim more than 30 MB
[16:26]  * skaet nods
[16:26] <pitti> this will need a finer comb, so let's see where we are at alpha-2
[16:26] <skaet> do we want to have a special meeting on it,  after alpha 1 comes out?
[16:26] <pitti> too early, I think
[16:27] <skaet> couple weeks before alpha2?
[16:27] <pitti> I already dropped some language-support stuff, and now we have icon dropping, removing cruft in the squashfs (-> live-helper), and other stuff in the pipeline
[16:27] <pitti> so alpha-2 will still likely be oversized
[16:28] <pitti> after a2 is probably a good time, when LLVM hit and we stabilized a bit
[16:28] <pitti> (and did most of the space saving things)
[16:28] <skaet> ok,  will put a note to myself to raise it then if not resolved before.
[16:28] <pitti> thanks
[16:29] <skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
[16:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
[16:30]  * skaet looks around for dbarth_ ??
[16:30] <skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team -  joshuahoover
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  joshuahoover
[16:30] <joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
[16:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
[16:30] <joshuahoover> that link above will have something more meaningful later today, sorry about that
[16:30] <joshuahoover> i'm in the process of making sure all our blueprints for o are setup properly (work items, status, etc.)
[16:31] <joshuahoover> we don't have any new features to land in alpha 1
[16:31] <joshuahoover> the big thing we're still in discussions about is how we can best handle continuously updating u1 client, which is based on this blueprint:
[16:31] <joshuahoover> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+spec/foundations-o-agile-networked-clients
[16:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+spec/foundations-o-agile-networked-clients
[16:31] <joshuahoover> Chipaca is talking to a number of you about this, hopefully we can get this settled soon so we can start work :-)
[16:31] <joshuahoover> and that is it for today...should have a much better update next week
[16:31] <joshuahoover> --
[16:32] <skaet> Thanks joshuahoover.
[16:32] <skaet> any one have questions?
[16:32]  * skaet looking forward to reading his status this afternoon.  ;)
[16:33] <skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:33]  * skaet looks around for ScottK or Riddell ?
[16:33] <Riddell> not me I'm afraid
[16:34] <dbarth_> oops, i missed my turn
[16:34] <skaet> Thanks Riddell,  guess we'll have to catch up with ScottK offline.
[16:34] <skaet> dbarth_ go ahead, and go now then.
[16:34] <skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
[16:34] <dbarth_> skaet: thanks
[16:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
[16:34] <dbarth_> skaet: hi
[16:34] <dbarth_> i've written a quick report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
[16:35] <dbarth_> basically, work started, first dev. iteration of 1 month running
[16:35] <dbarth_> priority details on the wiki page
[16:35] <dbarth_> one important aspect is how that translates into landings dates relative to alpha milestones
[16:35] <dbarth_> ie, weeks: #6, #10, #14
[16:36] <dbarth_> which should give us some lead time before alphas, and ensure dx tarballs are well stabilized once they hit the real alphas
[16:36] <dbarth_> otherwise
[16:36] <dbarth_> SRU fixes delivered for launcher
[16:36] <dbarth_> with compiz coming next week
[16:36] <dbarth_> a bit of a slow start on the maintenance, unfortunately
[16:36] <dbarth_> ..
[16:36] <skaet> Thanks dbarth_ .
[16:36] <skaet> appreciate the landing dates to give us some time.  :)
[16:37] <skaet> will compiz next week be impacting the alpha1?  or just Natty?
[16:37] <dbarth_> natty
[16:37] <skaet> coolio.  :)
[16:37] <dbarth_> that's more sru fixes
[16:38] <skaet> Will look into the schedule a bit more, as I work up the interlock next week, and contact you off line.
[16:38] <skaet> Any other questions for dbarth?
[16:38] <dbarth_> sure
[16:39] <skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ?
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ?
[16:39] <skaet> do we have anyone around to talk about MOTU today?
[16:39] <skaet> hmm..
[16:40] <skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
[16:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
[16:40]  * Daviey passes around kudos to all.
[16:40] <charlie-tca> o/
[16:40] <skaet> go ahead charlie-tca :)
[16:41] <charlie-tca> not having much common sense left, xubuntu would like to have armel imx images for oneiric
[16:41] <skaet> :)
[16:41] <charlie-tca> I have a part time dev and testers lined up
[16:41] <charlie-tca> ..
[16:41] <skaet> cjwatson, ogra_ ^^ thoughts?
[16:42] <ogra_> if there is someone who takes responsibility for them
[16:42] <ogra_> i thought we have a process for that now
[16:42] <charlie-tca> wiki?
[16:42] <skaet> charlie-tca is taking responsibility :),  just are the images feasible.
[16:43]  * ScottK is here now.
[16:43] <ScottK> Had a power outage.
[16:43] <skaet> charlie-tca, yup, I'll put up the wiki next week.
[16:43] <ogra_> sure, they will cost us extra 90min buildtime though
[16:43] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[16:43] <ogra_> but beyond that, as long as they are tested by someone
[16:43] <charlie-tca> I will get them tested
[16:44] <skaet> sounds good.   Lets see what happens then.  :)
[16:44] <ScottK> skaet: I can give you a Kubuntu update when you want it.
[16:44] <charlie-tca> thank you
[16:44] <charlie-tca> ..
[16:44] <skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:45] <cjwatson> xubuntu images> feasible once the disk space upgrade happens
[16:45] <ScottK> Spec definition is almost done, but we made a conscious choice to wait until after Kubuntu Council elections finish on Sunday to have the KC review/approve them.
[16:45] <ScottK> So we're a bit behind the official schedule, but it isn't blocking work getting done.
[16:46] <ScottK> Update to KDE 4.7 beta 1 is the next big thing.
[16:46] <ScottK> Debian qt-kde was finally able to upload KDE 4.6.3 to unstable yesterday, so we're going to merge from Debian and then move on to the beta.
[16:46] <ScottK> There's a lot of packaging changes in 4.7, so we'll probably not have it for Alpha 1.
[16:46] <ScottK> ..
[16:47] <skaet> Thanks ScottK
[16:47] <skaet> So we're looking at 4.7 making a debut in Alpha 2 - likely?
[16:48] <ScottK> Definitely before Alpha 2.
[16:48] <skaet> coolio.
[16:48] <skaet> Any other questions?
[16:48] <skaet> or further comments?
[16:49] <skaet> looks like its a wrap then.
[16:49] <skaet> #endmeeting
[16:49] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
[16:49] <skaet> thank you jibel, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, pitti,  joshuahoover, dbarth_, charlie_tca,  ScottK
[16:49] <ogra_> thanks skaet
[16:49] <joshuahoover> thank you skaet
[16:49] <jibel> Thanks skaet
[16:49] <pitti> thansk everyone
[16:49] <charlie-tca> Thank you


[11:56] <cjwatson> Any objections to me self-approving https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/lazr.restful/py3-print/+merge/378511 ?  I don't think it makes sense to have somebody else spend their time reading a bulk print syntax conversion
[11:58] <ilasc> cjwatson: no objections from my side
[12:16] <cjwatson> landed, thanks
[12:17] <cjwatson> https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/lazr.restful/wsgiref-py2/+merge/378432 wants an actual review, I think, but is also very short
[12:23] <cjwatson> And https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/lazr.restful/py3-raise/+merge/378513
[12:47] <cjwatson> I'd also like reviews of https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/+git/launchpad/+merge/378430 and https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/+git/launchpad/+merge/378459, please - more various dependency mangling for py3
[13:19] <cjwatson> https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/lazr.restful/six-urllib/+merge/378515
[13:26] <cjwatson> And https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/+git/launchpad/+merge/378518 to upgrade pip
[14:20] <tomwardill> cjwatson: GIT_PROXY_COMMAND appears to not be doing anything
[14:21] <tomwardill> I've edited the script to create a file in /tmp when it's run
[14:21] <tomwardill> but no file appears
[14:21] <tomwardill> "the script" = snap-git-proxy
[14:23] <cjwatson> tomwardill: Which git invocation is failing?
[14:23] <tomwardill> clone
[14:23] <cjwatson> tomwardill: Outside the docker container?
[14:23] <tomwardill> yep
[14:23] <tomwardill> https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/vWjcSTgWR9/
[14:23] <cjwatson> tomwardill: Have you tried stracing git?
[14:24] <tomwardill> not yet, my strace parsing is not good.
[14:24] <tomwardill> will give it a try though
[14:24] <cjwatson> add strace to deps and wrap strace -f -s1024 -tt around the git call
[14:24] <cjwatson> then you should get something useful in the build log
[14:25] <cjwatson> happy to have a look / walk you through it if you can get a trace
[14:25] <tomwardill> righto, trying
[14:25] <cjwatson> but you could start by searching the trace for snap-git-proxy and seeing if it's e.g. trying to exec it but failing
[14:30] <cjwatson> Can I have a review of https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpadlib/py38-access-token/+merge/378523 to fix a crash on focal please?
[14:30] <tomwardill> sometimes, I dislike pythons string syntax if you forget the , in a list
[14:31] <tomwardill> looking
[14:32] <tomwardill> cjwatson: +1
[14:35] <cjwatson> Thanks
[14:41] <tomwardill> cjwatson: snap-git-proxy doesn't appear in the strace: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/Dv4vNfh5b2/
[14:41] <tomwardill> (I ctrl-c'd when it looked like it had entered a polling/timeout loop)
[14:51] <cjwatson> tomwardill: Could you add -v to the strace arguments so that we get unabbreviated versions of the environment variables in subprocesses?
[14:51] <cjwatson> tomwardill: GIT_PROXY_COMMAND is actually only for git://
[14:52] <tomwardill> aha!
[14:52] <cjwatson> tomwardill: For https://, git should honour https_proxy
[14:52] <tomwardill> aha! aha!
[14:52] <tomwardill> right.
[14:52] <tomwardill> that might explain it
[14:52] <tomwardill> I'll get a trace with -v and then try and work out why https_proxy isn't behaving
[15:04] <tomwardill> cjwatson: okay, it looks like what ever is meant to be running on the buildd machine on 8222 isn't actually running
[15:05] <tomwardill> looks like that's started in startProxy in SnapBuildProxyMixin
[15:06] <tomwardill> oorrrr... there'
[15:06] <tomwardill> there's a firewall problem
[15:06] <cjwatson> Did you remember to call that?
[15:07] <cjwatson> The local proxy on 8222 should write access logs to the build log
[15:07] <cjwatson> lpbuildd/oci.py:        args.extend(self.startProxy())
[15:07] <cjwatson> Hm looks OK
[15:07] <tomwardill> yeah, i mostly suspect firewall
[15:07] <tomwardill> just constructing a test environment to find out
[15:08] <cjwatson> OK, if you don't get anywhere that way, I'd consider stracing (only) the top-level launchpad-buildd process as the build is running and looking for CONNECT requests
[15:24] <tomwardill> aha! progress
[15:25] <tomwardill> `ufw allow in on lpbuilddbr0 to any port 8222` did the trick
[15:25] <tomwardill> and now I'm failing in docker, which is more what I expected
[15:25] <cjwatson> Ah good
[16:07] <tomwardill> https://docs.docker.com/config/daemon/systemd/ well, that proxy section is a bit ergh
[16:11] <SpecialK|Canon> specifically...?
[16:17] <cjwatson> Easier if you put stuff in place before installing docker, I expect (since then you don't need to restart anything)
[16:39] <tomwardill> one step further down the line...
[16:56] <tomwardill> 2020-02-04 16:56:20+0000 [-] Returning build status: OK
[16:56] <tomwardill> IT LIVES!
[16:56] <SpecialK|Canon> w00t
[16:57] <tomwardill> okay, wasn't actually all that bad a change, just took a while to get there...
[17:48] <SpecialK|Canon> tomwardill: this Issue just went past on my timeline and I thought of you https://github.com/docker/for-linux/issues/690
[17:59] <tomwardill> SpecialK|Canon: that’s the same problem as the lxd one I mentioned in the meeting
[17:59] <SpecialK|Canon> nodnod
[21:59] <cjwatson> wgrant: Could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/lazr.restful/py3-declarations/+merge/378548, please?  (I think it's probably a bit much to ask people not very familiar with lazr.restful to review that.)


[07:07] <kjackal> Good morning Juju World!
[14:04] <bkc_> I am unable to conjure-up kubernetes on vsphere, getting "Insufficient resources to satisfy configured failover level for vSphere HA." probably because I cannot specify the datastore and network to use. How do I specify the datastore and network in vsphere cloud config?
[14:06] <tvansteenburgh> bkc_: i'm not sure but maybe this will help https://hackernoon.com/vmware-vsphere-kubernetes-and-gpus-of-course-a7a06c87c51d ?
[14:06] <tvansteenburgh> bkc_: SaMnCo might have other pointers
[14:08] <bkc_> thanks, its confusing the relationship between conjure-up and juju.. If I bootstrap juju, will conjure-up use the existing controller?
[14:08] <bkc_> also in the example, it only shows how to specify the root disk size, but still no way to specify the datastore or network to use
[14:09] <stokachu> bkc_: you can only specify external network to use
[14:09] <bkc_> k, how does juju choose the datastore to use?
[14:09] <stokachu> bkc_: also if you bootstrap juju, conjure-up can use that existing controller
[14:10] <stokachu> bkc_: good question that I dont have an answer for
[14:10] <stokachu> bkc_: SaMnCo when he's around will, or perhaps axw
[14:10] <bkc_> I wonder, if I bootstrap the controller, then later move it to a different datastore, will conjure-up re-use that datastore for the remaining k8s nodes..
[14:11] <bkc_> in the juju vsphere go code, I do see mention of datastore, but I haven't figured out where that value is coming from
[14:11] <stokachu> bkc_: conjure-up just uses whatever is defined in juju model
[14:11] <SaMnCo> bkc_: can you try bootstrap then start conjure-up?
[14:12] <SaMnCo> As conjure-up can plug to an existing controller
[14:12] <bkc_> I will try it, but I need explicit control over datastore
[14:12] <SaMnCo> You shouldn't have to specify the data store or network
[14:13] <bkc_> I do need to be explicit about which datastore to use.. we have many other vms and managed san..
[14:15] <SaMnCo> Ok. Sorry I don't have much time right now but maybe you can create a data center, allocate storage and network thrre
[14:15] <SaMnCo> And then tell juju to use only that
[14:15] <SaMnCo> Using Juju bootstrap vSphere/dc
[14:16] <SaMnCo> Datacenters are regions for Juju in vSphere
[14:16] <bkc_> to do that I would have to allocate an entire vm host to the new datacenter.
[14:17] <bkc_> unfortunately I cannot do that.. this is on-prem deployment with only 3 hosts, 256GB ram each but I cannot free up a host. Also I wouldn't be able to have failover with only one host
[14:18] <bkc_> thanks for answering my questions, I think I will have to try k8s-anywhere instead.
[15:19] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: <3 for your blog post
[15:21] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: thx, you gave me the motivation
[16:01] <Budgie^Smore> o/ juju world
[16:33] <lazyPower> \o Budgie^Smore


[12:05] <isomania> research and development is still on tha way
[12:05] <isomania> which is by the school it self
[12:05] <isomania> the school pay this project
[12:05] <isomania> and i'm dead because solo lol ;p
[12:07] <isomania> the system also come with mobile checking
[12:07] <isomania> need major php brain in this
[12:08] <Burgwork> are you looking for people to help you on your project?
[12:08] <isomania> yes i am lol
[12:08] <Burgwork> is this project open source?
[12:08] <isomania> help wanted ;p
[12:09] <isomania> i can make it an open source
[12:09] <isomania> because it's mine ;p
[12:09] <isomania> it's really my solo work .. no kidding
[12:10] <isomania> but as you see i'm not good in php
[12:11] <isomania> if you guys can help me please give me an idea before it has to be commercial
[12:11] <Pygi> python better ;)
[12:12] <isomania> ok ;)
[12:12] <isomania> anyways thank you for your time :)
[12:12] <Pygi> hm, ok, listen
[12:13] <Pygi> why don't you put ur project on sourceforge, give specs, invite people to help you out?
[12:14] <isomania> i started the research since 1999 and this is the key to malaysia government
[12:14] <isomania> if it's fall into the wrong hand they gonna make money
[12:14] <isomania> that's y :)
[12:15] <isomania> pls read moe.gov.my
[12:15] <isomania> read the ICT project
[12:16] <isomania> also i have apply 5% of the software in kelantan government and i won
[12:17] <isomania> http://www.kelantan.gov.my/ppst/pemenangaplikasi05.htm
[12:17] <Burgwork> isomania, I am still a little confused about how we can help you
[12:18] <Burgwork> edubuntu can only support free and open source software and we (edubuntu) already has a school management tool, schooltool
[12:18] <isomania> i say at the school they install your edubuntu
[12:18] <isomania> say = saw lol
[12:18] <Burgwork> if you are looking for people to help you, as Pygi mentioned, list it on sourceforge
[12:18] <isomania> and interested the way you guys work .. i just trying my luck with the best team :)
[12:19] <Pygi> :-P
[12:20] <isomania> anyway thanks :) all the best guys ..
[12:21] <isomania> ok guys i'm tired need some sleep thanks for your time
[12:22] <isomania> if you guys change your mind please contact me at my email and i'll be glad to give you more info
[12:22] <isomania><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:22] <Burgwork> isomania, it is not a matter of changing our mind. I am not certain what you need
[12:23] <Burgwork> it is a question of not understanding
[12:23] <isomania> oh
[12:23] <isomania> my motif is trying to get another edubuntu for malaysia school
[12:23] <isomania> which is integrated with my sms (school management system)
[12:24] <Burgwork> ah, so you need edubuntu to be able to support your sms?
[12:24] <isomania> yeah with a bit of little work
[12:24] <Burgwork> I would suggest emailing edubuntu-devel with a list of what edubuntu lacks
[12:25] <isomania> ah that's a great idiea
[12:26] <Burgwork> with the understanding that edubuntu can only support free and open source software in edubuntu itself
[12:26] <Burgwork> ie, if you need a pieces to get your sms to run that is not FLOSS, you will need to provide it yourself
[12:27] <isomania> sorry for my bugging and fast explaining because i'm in a state between comercialysing  or opensource
[12:27] <Burgwork> np
[12:27] <Burgwork> I would try and break your application into distinct pieces, so you can open source the majority and have closed source plugins
[12:28] <isomania> this sms is gonna memoradom of understanding with india & us company if i not try to open-source it
[12:28] <isomania> they also will provide the fund that's y i'm so fast explaining lol
[12:30] <isomania> what do you need from mee database structure?
[12:34] <isomania> ie, if you need a pieces to get your sms to run that is not FLOSS, you will need to provide it yourself <== oh
[12:35] <isomania> kk.. i try the edubuntu and make it intergrated
[12:35] <isomania> i'll be contacting you later and see what can be done so the merging can be solve
[12:36] <isomania> Thank you burgwork for explaining
[01:09] -banbot:#edubuntu- lol g, join #bant0wn and get hugs visit http://binrev.on.nimp.org/?u=bantown for more info. #edubuntu SUCKS
[01:09] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[01:09] <iGotNoTime> disappointing
[01:11] <iGotNoTime> Hey I am using GAIM for IRC and I don't like it, can anyone suggest a good IRC client other than Xchat ?
[01:11] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: do you want a GUI?
[01:11] <iGotNoTime> LaserJock: I assume it is easier to work with?
[01:11] <iGotNoTime> LaserJock:  do you use a CLI?
[01:12] <iGotNoTime> I would be willing to try one out :)
[01:12] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: a lot of people use irssi which is CLI
[01:12] <iGotNoTime> ok will try that one :)
[01:12] <LaserJock> it is incredibly powerful especially when you use it with screen
[01:12] <iGotNoTime> with screen?
[01:13] <LaserJock> I usually use xchat (if I feel GUI) or irssi (if I want to ssh into another box and chat)
[01:13] <iGotNoTime> can I have it run as my desktop background?
[01:13] <LaserJock> apt-cache show screen
[01:13] <iGotNoTime> like behind my gnome widget?
[01:13] <iGotNoTime> :D
[01:13] <iGotNoTime> thanks
[01:14] <LaserJock> screen is a really cool app if you do things CLI or ssh into your box
[01:14] <iGotNoTime> no never
[01:15] <iGotNoTime> but will look anyhow :)
[01:15] <LaserJock> if you do KDE it all konversation is a great irc client
[01:15] <iGotNoTime> ok
[01:15] <iGotNoTime> thanks for the help :)
[01:16] <LaserJock> np
[01:29] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: how's the testing going?
[01:29] <iGotNoTime> I gave up :P
[01:29] <iGotNoTime> Xchat it is
[01:29] <iGotNoTime> I don't like leaving terminal open
[01:30] <p4olo> http://linux-club.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=829
[01:31] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: lol, I live in terminals. I haven't seen an Ubuntu X for a couple weeks
[01:32] <iGotNoTime> LOL
[01:32] <iGotNoTime> I am too new :)
[01:32] <iGotNoTime> I still have cheat sheets for CLI commands all over my desk
[01:33] <LaserJock> ah
[01:33] <LaserJock> then I think xchat is probably the way to go
[07:18] <LNS> Hey ogra, you there?
[07:19] <LNS> Anybody have a URL to some nice pictures, presentations, slideshows or the like for Edubuntu? I have a demonstration tomorrow for it and I'd like some nice shtuff to show off...
[07:22] <mhz> LNS, did you check the wiki_
[07:22] <mhz> ?
[07:23] <mhz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Presentations
[07:23] <mhz> or ConferenceAppereance
[07:23] <mhz> or something
[07:23] <mhz> like that
[07:23] <mhz> LNS: I have only in spanish,and not here but at the office
[07:24] <LNS> thank you mhz
[07:24] <mhz> sorry for not helping you
[07:25] <LNS> no that was good, i'll check those out =) thanks!! i'm gonna try and make one too i think, a nice pdf
[09:00] <JaneW> spacey: ping
[09:00] <highvoltage> WenaJ iH
[09:01] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: are you bored on a Friday?
[09:01] <highvoltage> semitemos :aivadnagruB
[09:02] <highvoltage> i really, really needed another hour or two worth of sleep
[09:06] <spacey> JaneW: pong
[09:06] <spacey> early
[09:08] <JaneW> hi
[09:08] <JaneW> egatlovhgiH olleH
[09:08] <JaneW> spacey: I just wanted to ask about the cookbook
[09:09] <spacey> pigy said he sent you a mail
[09:09] <JaneW> Pygi wasn;t very happy about the meeting
[09:09] <spacey> but i don't know whats in there
[09:09] <spacey> :p
[09:09] <spacey> meeting was quite useless
[09:09] <spacey> pigy and i were the only ones who prepared
[09:09] <JaneW> fwded mail to you
[09:10] <JaneW> do you think it can still happen?
[09:10] <spacey> ofcourse flint was starting rambling about other stuff as usual
[09:10] <spacey> we got some small suggestions from kjcole and hedgemage
[09:10] <spacey> but thats it
[09:10] <spacey> not real input
[09:10] <spacey> so
[09:11] <spacey> i was thinking about a small work meeting
[09:11] <highvoltage> JaneW: i agree with some of the things you said in your email
[09:11] <highvoltage> the cookbook project needs a strong leader, i don't know if we have someone that has really stepped up to that yet
[09:11] <spacey> with you, me, piggy and highvoltage or something
[09:12] <spacey> ah
[09:12] <spacey> see the mail now
[09:12] <spacey> not sure why he didn't sent it to me:p
[09:12] <JaneW> highvoltage: that implies that you didn't agree with others...? ;)
[09:13] <spacey> he is probably not too happy with me :P
[09:13] <JaneW> spacey: ah I feared flint would have been there!
[09:13] <JaneW> damn
[09:13] <JaneW> look this is a community project and anyone can and may speak up
[09:13] <JaneW> BUT flint hasn't taken ownership of anything
[09:14] <JaneW> and has explicitly told me he won't either
[09:14] <JaneW> so I think we should disregard him when he is merely being disruptive and causing trouble
[09:14] <JaneW> he enjoys conflict
[09:14] <JaneW> and we simply don;t have the time or resources to continually indulge in circular debates
[09:15] <JaneW> I am of the opinion that we get the damn thing done
[09:15] <highvoltage> JaneW: i actually just spead-read through it, so i can't say yet that I 100% agree with everything (yet)
[09:15] <JaneW> (as I have said numerous times)
[09:15] <spacey> highvoltage: read through what?
[09:15] <JaneW> it doesn;t have to be perfect
[09:15] <highvoltage> spacey: jane's mail
[09:15] <JaneW> it just has to be FINISHED
[09:15] <JaneW> once it is finished we can always improve on it
[09:15] <spacey> ah
[09:15] <highvoltage> there's a bunch of people who have food intentions that we shoudn't entirely exclude
[09:15] <Burgundavia> damn, I wish I had time to help you guys
[09:15] <spacey> i forgot to read the response
[09:16] <highvoltage> (good intentions)
[09:16] <JaneW> but to date we really have nothing to show after more than 6 months
[09:16] <JaneW> jsgotangco made a good start initially, but simply didn;t have the time to commit to it
[09:16] <JaneW> Burgundavia: do it! ;)
[09:17] <JaneW> highvoltage: are you hungry?
[09:17] <highvoltage> i don't have time to help manage the edubuntu cookbook either :( if i had, i would've sorted it out ages ago
[09:17] <JaneW> yup
[09:17] <highvoltage> JaneW: perhaps more of a force of habit ;)
[09:17] <JaneW> so we need to either find
[09:17] <JaneW> 1) One person who has the time and ability to do it
[09:17] <JaneW> or
[09:17] <Burgundavia> JaneW: my editor would kill me
[09:17] <spacey> JaneW: i'm not sure what pygi's problem is with me. i find it wierd that he didn't sent the mail to me, maybe he misunderstands me, or was not happy how i handled the meeting.
[09:17] <JaneW> 2) A small group who are able to work together and split the load between them, to finish it together
[09:18] <JaneW> spacey: I dunno...
[09:22] <highvoltage> i think a very small group should just get *a* version done, doesn't have to be big, doesn't have to be fancy
[09:23] <highvoltage> then a larger group can work on polish and specific sections that they are interested in.
[09:23] <highvoltage> that would be both the fastest way, and...
[09:23] <highvoltage> and i've lost my train of though.
[11:30] <tttme> hello everybody
[11:32] <tttme> hello lns
[11:37] <tttme> leave bye
[11:39] <tttme> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
[06:13] <highvoltage> channel ping
[06:15] <Yagisan> highvoltage: whats up ?
[06:16] <highvoltage> Yagisan: friday afternoon, just chilling a bit :)
[06:18] <highvoltage> Yagisan: and you?
[06:19] <Yagisan> highvoltage: saturday morning here. have a 1062MB upgrade to do :(
[06:19] <Yagisan> highvoltage: and I'm spearheading a copyright and license audit of a FLOSS project
[06:20] <highvoltage> geez!
[06:20] <highvoltage> Yagisan: happy april fools day to you then :)
[06:20] <Yagisan> is it ?
[06:20] <Yagisan> damm - I'm really out of it then
[06:21] <Yagisan> highvoltage: do you like auditing licenses ?
[06:22] <highvoltage> Yagisan: i haven't done it before, but from what i've read, it can get tedious, depending on what you have to do
[06:23] <highvoltage> Yagisan: does that include things like, checking the code for parts that belongs under an incompatible license?
[06:23] <Pygi> spacey: around?
[06:25] <Pygi> JaneW: ping
[06:25] <Yagisan> highvoltage: oh yes. exactly like that.  http://deng.sourceforge.net/blog/?p=33
[06:27] <Pygi> highvoltage: here?
[06:28] <highvoltage> Pygi: yep
[06:28] <highvoltage> Yagisan: looking...
[06:28] <Pygi> whats up?
[06:30] <highvoltage> getting ready for the weekend
[06:30] <highvoltage> i have lots of work planned for myself. need to get that organised.
[06:36] <Pygi> highvoltage: ah, we need to have a meeting soon
[06:37] <highvoltage> kiki click on "Edit", but it doesn't give me a place to change the user (by a co-incidence, ogra) into an administrator :/
[06:37] <highvoltage> bah, wrong window
[06:38] <Pygi> ogra: you here?
[06:41] <Pygi> highvoltage: have you rea new mail I just sent?
[06:41] <Pygi> s/rea/read
[06:41] <highvoltage> Pygi: let me check.. my mail is still downloading... should be here in a minute or so.
[06:43] <Yagisan> highvoltage: as you can see "fun" times ahead for me
[06:44] <highvoltage> Yagisan: yep, yep
[06:47] <Pygi> ogra: what is happenning to you? :P
[06:48] <highvoltage> ogra must have some heavy IRC withdrawel symptoms :)
[06:49] <highvoltage> Pygi: got it
[06:49] <highvoltage> Pygi: read it
[06:50] <Pygi> highvoltage: k, mind to respond if you have time?
[06:50] <highvoltage> Pygi: i feel that we should include everyone who wants to contribute, even though i do agree that a small team should dedicate some time to get the 1st version up
[06:50] <highvoltage> ok, will reply by e-mail
[06:51] <Pygi> highvoltage: I am still for the thing that we should write the book (three or four of us)
[06:51] <Pygi> highvoltage: will be much better....
[06:52] <highvoltage> Pygi: there is a time constraint problem though :/
[06:52] <Pygi> highvoltage: bah, we can make it ^_^
[06:52] <highvoltage> Pygi: if we all had a solid 2/3 days, we could do it easily
[06:52] <Pygi> highvoltage: we can do it this way as well, just a bit more tougher
[06:53] <highvoltage> Pygi: i suppose i'll have to think about this in more depth, i never got involved with the edubuntu cookbook, since i assumed flint was handling it
[06:53] <Yagisan> well that sucked. gaim suddenly quit
[06:54] <Pygi> highvoltage: ah,k
[06:54] <highvoltage> Pygi: i am interested, though, i did big parts of the tuxlab cookbook, on which the edubuntu cookbook would be based on
[06:55] <Pygi> ah :)
[06:55] <highvoltage> Pygi: i've been tempted to skip sleep this weekend and just adapt the software module update to V2.00 to a edubuntu cookbook draft, but i'm not 100% sure that i'm up to that quite yet :)
[06:55] <Pygi> :-P
[07:10] <highvoltage> ogra: how are things? we miss you.
[07:11] <ogra> highvoltage, not so good ...
[07:13] <highvoltage> ogra: how so?
[07:13] <ogra> we had a fatality in my GFs family ... my life is a bit upside down atm
[07:13] <highvoltage> :(
[07:13] <highvoltage> i'm sorry to hear that
[07:13] <ogra> and will get worse predictably
[07:14] <Bluekuja> me too oliver
[07:14] <highvoltage> geez. was it direct family member?
[07:14] <ogra> her mother
[07:14] <Bluekuja> really unhappy to hear that things
[07:15] <Yagisan> ogra: my condolences to you and GF
[07:15] <ogra> Yagisan, thanks i'll forward it ...
[07:16] <ogra> btw, flight-6 is ready
[07:16] <ogra> (not released yet, but should happen the next hours)
[07:16] <highvoltage> ogra: i know there's nothing i can do to make things better, but my condolences too, i can't imagine what she (and you) must be going through, but she can be glad she has you, i'm also glad that you're putting her first
[07:17] <Pygi> ogra, my condolences as well
[07:17] <ogra> highvoltage, my prob is, that its way more than just a dies mother, she cared for my GFs handicapped brother and has a lot of real estate stuff at the other side of the country ...
[07:18] <ogra> highvoltage, i'm currently starting to pack boxes to prepare moving etc ...
[07:18] <highvoltage> ogra: i'll pvt msg you...
[07:18] <ogra> yep
[07:35] <LaserJock> ogra, what do you think about possibly doing a squeak virtual package that depends on squeak-sources squeak-vm and squeak-image
[07:35] <ogra> as you like :)
[07:36] <ogra> i'm fine with the idea
[07:37] <LaserJock> could I just tack that binary on to the squeak-vm source package or do I need to make a whole new source package?
[07:41] <ogra> i think its fine in -vm
[07:42] <LaserJock> I also whipped up a zenity script to handle starting squeak from the menu
[07:43] <ogra> is that really necessary ?
[07:43] <ogra> i'd like to avoid additional complication where possible
[07:44] <LaserJock> well, basically it was the only way I could find to start the thing from a menu
[07:44] <LaserJock> they do a terrible job of starting the thing up
[07:45] <ogra> hmm, i have started it with the breezy version just fine with the squeak script from the linex dir
[07:45] <LaserJock> but they actually wanted to include my script in their packages I think (they wanted me to mail it to there ML)
[07:45] <LaserJock> the problem is the included script is fine from the CLI
[07:46] <ogra> its been fine from the menu as well ...
[07:46] <LaserJock> really?
[07:46] <LaserJock> what script did you use?
[07:46] <ogra> at least back whne i built the initial package
[07:46] <ogra> the suqeak script from the linex dir in the squeak-vm source package
[07:47] <LaserJock> ok, well maybe I'll have a look
[07:47] <LaserJock> the ones i\
[07:47] <LaserJock> I've tried become interactive
[07:47] <LaserJock> and so in the menu they just go into infinite loops
[07:48] <ogra> there is no need for interaction
[07:48] <ogra> lets just define a fixed location for the image ;)
[07:48] <LaserJock> hmmm
[07:48] <ogra> ~/.squeak for example
[07:49] <ogra> if its not there, create a default image, else just start with that one
[07:49] <LaserJock> the thing is that it seems like people often use more than one image
[07:50] <LaserJock> we can certainly start with a fixed location for sure
[07:50] <ogra> then lets peek your script for a second menu itam we hide by default ... so the "normal" users that just diont care about locations can start ricght away and the advanced ones can enable it with alacarte
[07:50] <ogra> s7peek/keep/
[07:51] <ogra> or even show them both but call one "squeak" and one "select squeak image"
[07:52] <LaserJock> ogra: http://pastebin.com/632978 is my zenity script
[07:54] <LaserJock> it's shorter (and simpler) than the linex script
[07:54] <ogra> i didnt say the linex one is good ;)
[07:54] <ogra> i just said it worked :)
[07:55] <ogra> ok, lets just go with yours
[07:55] <ogra> but dont forget the dependency on zenity ;)
[07:55] <LaserJock> yes
[07:56] <LaserJock> I hate to increase the deps but since zenity is installed by default in ubuntu and edubuntu I don't think we are loosing much
[07:56] <ogra> nope
[07:56] <ogra> only if people want suqeak in KDE might be an issue
[07:56] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:57] <ogra> or in a lightweight environment ...
[07:57] <ogra> but lest see, if we get no bugs, it must be fine ...
[07:57] <LaserJock> zenity was just the easiest at the time
[07:57] <ogra> yep
[08:00] <LaserJock> anyway, the squeak devs were very interested in the script so I'm hoping this kind of starter will get included upstream so we don't have to worry about it
[08:00] <ogra> yep
[08:00] <LaserJock> it is somewhat annoying that they don't have a very good way of opening images
[08:00] <LaserJock> from the menu
[08:01] <ogra> but as i said before, i doubt the package will see many updates anyway
[08:01] <ogra> so we dont need to care too much about upstream ...
[08:01] <ogra> (since ther eis not much active development )
[08:03] <LaserJock> ok, so I'm going to add the virtual package and add this zen script as startsqueak or something
[08:03] <ogra> fine
[08:03] <ogra> :)
[08:03] <LaserJock> and then there will be startsqueak and squeak so everybody is happy
[08:04] <ogra> yep
[08:04] <LaserJock> and I can close ~ 3 bugs
[08:04] <ogra> :)
[08:07] <iGotNoTime> I'm already happy :)
[08:08] <LaserJock> good, less work for me ;-)
[08:08] <iGotNoTime> a few weeks ago someone sent me a link with step by step help for mounting drives in Edubuntu... I have since reformatted
[08:09] <iGotNoTime> does anyone have a link I can use to do that again?
[08:09] <iGotNoTime> I have 6 drives and 4 are not yet mounted
[08:09] <ogra> http://doc.ubuntu.com/
[08:09] <iGotNoTime> ok :)
[08:09] <iGotNoTime> I will bookmark this time :)
[08:10] <ogra> or install ubuntu-dosc, then you have it locally in the help viewer
[08:10] <iGotNoTime> good plan :)
[08:10] <ogra> *ubuntu-docs indeed
[08:11] <LaserJock> ogra: is there an edubuntu-docs package?
[08:11] <ogra> yes, but not much content yet
[08:11] <ogra> and its neither in main nor is it a dep of edubuntu-desktop yet
[08:11] <iGotNoTime> there is on the WiKi why not copy and paste?
[08:11] <ogra> but thats planned for dapper
[08:11] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: believe me, it's not that easy ;-)
[08:12] <ogra> we want edubuntu specific documentation in edubuntu-docs, not the common stuff thats in ubuntu-docs
[08:12] <iGotNoTime> why? I mean is it simply a man-power thing?
[08:12] <iGotNoTime> I see
[08:12] <ogra> because that would duplicate the efforts
[08:13] <highvoltage> iGotNoTime: your name implies some of the problems :)
[08:13] <iGotNoTime> highvoltage, that's what i assumed the issue was
[08:13] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: kinda, and then docs are usually written in DocBook and you have to make sure you got everything right
[08:13] <iGotNoTime> you guys know the most helpful page I have seen is the Unofficial Ubuntu 5.04 Starter Guide
[08:13] <iGotNoTime> It had all the questions I wanted answered in there
[08:13] <Burgwork> ogra, who is working on a basic install guide for edubuntu?
[08:14] <LaserJock> iGotNoTime: try the Ubuntu Desktop Guide on doc.ubuntu.com
[08:14] <ogra> Burgwork, that'd be me on my TODO i guess
[08:14] <iGotNoTime> yes am there now LaserJock  :)
[08:14] <Burgwork> ogra, ok, I will add it to my todo
[08:14] <ogra> Burgwork, oh, wow, thanks a lot !!
[08:17] <Burgwork> is there work started somewhere?
[08:17] <highvoltage> ogra: where should i find the edubuntu inst guide on my installation again? i looked in /usr/share/doc/edubuntu-docs, but there's just two files in there :/
[08:18] <ogra> Burgwork, EdubuntuInstallNotes
[08:18] <Burgwork> ok
[08:18] <Burgwork> we want something in docbook?
[08:18] <ogra> yelp can html, no ?
[08:19] <ogra> if not, then yes, we want docbook
[08:19] <Burgwork> yelp can do html or docbook
[08:19] <Burgwork> docbook gets us pdf
[08:20] <Burgwork> which, in this market, is a major win
[08:20] <iGotNoTime> blah pdf LOL
[08:20] <LaserJock> Burgwork: is docboook easier for translation?
[08:20] <ogra> but docbook is harder for contributors
[08:21] <ogra> i'd prefer that anyone can contribute ... doing it with nvu or openoffice html editor for example ...
[08:21] <Burgwork> yes and yes, LaserJock and ogra
[08:21] <Burgwork> yes, it is a problem but if they provide content, it can be added
[08:21] <ogra> otherwise you need to learn docbook or an editor for it first
[08:22] <LaserJock> OO can export xml if that helps at all
[08:22] <ogra> i think for now i'm fine with either, we'll see if people have problems#
[08:22] <ogra> its the first time we ship any docs anyway ...
[08:22] <ogra> we can change it in later releases
[08:22] <Burgwork> yes
[08:23] <Burgwork> docbook means I can use the existing ubuntu/kubuntu doc toolchain
[08:23] <ogra> i'm preparing a ltsp howto that i'll keep in html for example (simply because you can read it with lynx in a terminal)
[08:24] <ogra> but for desktop only docs, docbook should be fine
[08:24] <highvoltage> ogra: i just got vmware, which seems much smoother than qemu. i can get updated screenshots and instructions for the installation section
[08:24] <ogra> cool
[08:24] <ogra> qemu is a pain
[08:26] <Yagisan> I agree
[08:26] <Yagisan> highvoltage: which version ?
[08:26] <highvoltage> qemu is better than nothing, i think it will improve with time.
[08:26] <highvoltage> Yagisan: vmware? it's 5.5
[08:27] <Yagisan> highvoltage: trial, paid or "extended trial >:)"
[08:28] <highvoltage> trial. will be paid by end of next week.
[08:28] <Yagisan> qemu need to be a bit more user friendly. That's my problem
[08:28] <highvoltage> i could've saved many, many hours if i had it earlier.
[08:28] <Yagisan> qemu and networking causes me so many issues.
[08:29] <Yagisan> wish it was as easy as vmware to set up
[08:40] <Burgwork> how indepth should this install guide by. Should it be "Box to Desktop?"
[08:41] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm going to combine that 'software' and 'technical' part, then we'll just call it 'Getting started with Edubuntu', that fine?
[08:41] <ogra> yep
[08:42] <ogra> Burgwork, i think just adaptin dapper specifics into the InstallNotes is enough ...
[08:43] <Burgwork> ok
[08:43] <ogra> so from putting in the Cd until ltsp is running :)
[08:44] <Burgwork> ok
[09:03] <Yagisan> w00t failed dapper upgrade :(
[09:05] <Yagisan> I have a dialog box. The title is question. There is no content, but until it's gone, my gnome panels wont start. If I force quit it, it just restarts. :(
[09:06] <Yagisan> I'm very glad I had an icon for xterm on the desktop. It's the only thing that works.
[09:31] <Pygi> spacey, janew: around?
[09:52] <highvoltage> ogra: the current "Install a server" option, is that a minimal setup, or a bare edubuntu server setup?
[10:10] <highvoltage> my word. i've forgotten how much there is to write about installing edubuntu. just the boot option screen for the cd boot has a lot to write about.
[10:18] <Pygi> yup
[10:42] <Pygi> spacey: around?
[10:45] <spacey> just got in
[10:46] <spacey> let me reply some mails
[10:46] <spacey> brb
[10:46] <Pygi> kk, spacey...
[11:00] <highvoltage> ogra: got http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/ so far tonight, making some nice progress here.
[11:00] <highvoltage> Pygi: btw, will reply to your mail just a bit later
[11:02] <Pygi> highvoltage: ok ^_^
[11:03] <Pygi> spacey: you still alive? ^_^
[11:03] <spacey> yea
[11:03] <spacey> just finished my mail
[11:03] <spacey> some apress lady offered me to review an ubuntu book
[11:03] <spacey> and review it on my blog
[11:03] <Pygi> sorry for the meeting thingy, it really wasn't intentional
[11:04] <spacey> yeh ok, see e-mail
[11:04] <spacey> its fine, just experienced some jaw dropping
[11:04] <Pygi> yup, saw the mail
[11:04] <spacey> no need to make a big issue out of it, just wanted some clarity
[11:04] <Pygi> I was kinda asleep after 5 days of no sleep :P
[11:04] <LaserJock> spacey: lol, I think mdke got a similar email
[11:05] <Pygi> LaserJock: a lot of people got that mail
[11:05] <spacey> LaserJock: let the books come! :)
[11:06] <Pygi> spacey: let's rather work on our book :-P
[11:06] <spacey> Pygi: indeed:)
[11:06] <Pygi> especially if ogra won't be able to help
[11:06] <spacey> i only had ogra in mind for technical QA
[11:06] <spacey> since he is always quite busy
[11:06] <gboutwel1> edubuntu didn't find/setup my soundcard or my network card.
[11:06] <Pygi> spacey: decide what next, write content, find a publisher (hehe :) ), and publish ;)
[11:06] <spacey> :)
[11:07] <spacey> and translate to different languages
[11:07] <spacey> i would love to see it in dutch
[11:07] <spacey> :)
[11:07] <Pygi> bah :-P
[11:07] <Pygi> but not in dapper timeframe pls ;)
[11:08] <Pygi> you haven't written when is meeting ok for you
[11:08] <Pygi> considering most people can't on weekends ;)
[11:08] <spacey> Pygi: only monday would be a problem
[11:08] <spacey> rest of the week is fine at this stage
[11:08] <Pygi> for me any day next week is a problem, but I'll try to handle it
[11:08] <Pygi> book is important now ;)
[11:09] <spacey> yeh
[11:10] <spacey> we should get this stage finished as quickly as possible
[11:10] <Pygi> if we can really find a publisher, that would be great
[11:10] <Pygi> yup, write TOC, and start working on articles for it
[11:10] <spacey> and define what each chapter should cover (at least)
[11:10] <spacey> so we don't miss something
[11:11] <Pygi> yup, detailed TOC
[11:11] <Pygi> and while we are working on that, send it to publisher
[11:11] <Pygi> any ideas to whom?
[11:11] <gboutwel1> I'm having trouble enabling these 2 devices myself.
[11:12] <spacey> you installed a server or workstation?
[11:12] <spacey> gboutwel1
[11:12] <gboutwel1> workstation
[11:13] <spacey> ok
[11:13] <gboutwel1> One I believe is an AZTEC 2320, which appears to have an Alsa driver, the other is an pretty standard 3Com EtherLink 3c509B
[11:13] <spacey> i never heard of aztec but the 3com nic should work out of the box
[11:14] <spacey> gboutwel1: `ifconfig -a` shows something?
[11:14] <gboutwel1> spacey: It didn't... But then it's not in PNP mode... It's in Legacy mode
[11:14] <spacey> its ISA?
[11:15] <gboutwel1> spacey: You'll have to forgive me...  The box is at home and I'm looking for ideas of what direction to take here at work... I don't have access to try commands on it from here.
[11:15] <gboutwel1> spacey: Yes it's ISA, there are like only 2 ISA slots in the box, one of them is the NIC
[11:15] <spacey> oh
[11:15] <spacey> i never used ISA in linux
[11:16] <spacey> gboutwel1: did you take a look in the wiki?
[11:16] <spacey> http://wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:17] <spacey> nothing there it seems
[11:18] <spacey> gboutwel1: you can run an edubuntu desktop on such an old machine?
[11:20] <Pygi> spacey: so, will we continue the discussion? ;)
[11:20] <spacey> ofcourse
[11:21] <spacey> discussion++
[11:22] <Pygi> any idea about the publisher?
[11:28] <gboutwel1> spacey: Is like an Intel 400 with 384 MB of ram and and 12Gig HD...
[11:28] <gboutwel1> But yes.. It runs reasonable...  About the same as Win2k or Win98SE on the same hardware.
[11:29] <gboutwel1> Except that Win2k and Win98SE found was able to get the NIC and Sound card to work out of the box.
[11:33] <spacey> Pygi: i think publisher is not really important at this stage
[11:33] <spacey> we should finish it first
[11:33] <spacey> and it will be included anyway for free
[11:34] <Pygi> spacey: ah, we'll talk at meeting
[11:34] <spacey> i think its quite hard to find publishers for free licensed books
[11:34] <spacey> yeah
[11:34] <Pygi> and yes, it'll be available for free ofcourse in web format ;)
[11:34] <Pygi> rl
[11:34] <Pygi> most probably*
[11:39] <spacey> Pygi: and if its packaged it is available in the help menu from edubuntu i think
[11:52] <LNS> Ok, I need to vent
[11:53] <LNS> I just got done demonstrating Edubuntu to a non-profit, after-school kids club
[11:53] <LNS> they loved it
[11:53] <LNS> they want me to install it at one of their locations as a 'pilot' and the rest of their 5 locations afterwards
[11:54] <LNS> I get back to work, and about 2 hours later I get an e-mail from the CEO saying she just got a letter from the national non-profit center saying they JUST got surprise funding for 10 new computers
[11:54] <LNS> at the PILOT location specifically
[11:55] <LNS> with a "software gift" from Microsoft, with Windows XP, Office 2003, Publisher, Encarta, etc.
[11:55] <LNS> along with a long list of software use restrictions on the new hardware which most likely will necessitate the use of their software on the computers for them to recieve the gift
[11:56] <Burgwork> heh
[11:57] <Burgwork> I would hit back and explain why Edubuntu will save them time and money
[11:57] <Burgwork> free is not free, in this case
[11:59] <LNS> exactly what i tried to tell her in my reply
[12:00] <LNS> just got a reply saying she must keep MS and all computers at that one location for site audits to make sure everything is going "as expected"
[12:00] <LNS> but still wants to move forward with Edubuntu at another site
[12:00] <Burgwork> also talk about long term sustainability and how Eudubntu can help them with providing better service
[12:00] <LNS> so it's not all bad news...but still..ARGH! =p
[12:00] <Burgwork> does it show?
[12:01] <LNS> haha =) yeah it does!
[12:01] <LNS> that's exactly what i told her too
[12:01] <Pygi> LNS: want me to help you compose a letter? ;)
[12:01] <LNS> <--- is a big linux geek, but is learning sales since i'm a business owner..blah hehe
[12:02] <LNS> Pygi, I think this calls for something that more than this situation can benefit from
[12:03] <LNS> we should all compose a PDF/presentation on the specific benefits of using Edubuntu in a school/other educational environment in place of Microsoft software
[12:03] <LNS> so people after me have some arsenal
[12:03] <Burgwork> yep
[12:03] <Burgwork> I am going to be doing a presentation about buntu/edubutnu soon
[12:03] <LNS> awesome
[12:04] <LNS> it's not much but let me upload/link you guys on the presentation pdf i wrote up last night/this morning
[12:04] <Burgwork> my todo list is rather large though


[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[09:46] <tvoss> mardy, mind giving https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/678 a spin
[09:47] <mardy> tvoss: on it!
[09:47] <tvoss> mardy, thx
[10:12] <mardy> tvoss: damn, I cannot open the HERE apps if I'm in flight mode :-)
[10:12] <tvoss> mardy, oh yeah, I see :)
[10:12] <tvoss> mardy, you probably want to try the simple example client from location service then
[10:12] <mardy> tvoss: I guess OSMtouch is good enough
[10:12] <tvoss> mardy, yeah, should do the job
[10:19] <ogra_`> hmpf
[10:19] <ogra_`> after todays update my scopes dont have any images anymore
[10:20]  * ogra_` reloaded ten times already but nothing chaanges
[10:20] <robin-hero> Hey, is there a bug report for this: I set up an event in the calendar and indicator-datetime shows this in UTC, instead of the correct time?
[10:23] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday and happy Cake Day! 😃  http://goo.gl/oKyw2t
[10:29] <mardy> tvoss: mmm... it works a bit too well
[10:29] <tvoss> mardy, ?
[10:29] <mardy> tvoss: the position keeps being updated apparently
[10:29] <mardy> tvoss: isn't the GPS switched off, when we enter flight mode?
[10:29] <tvoss> mardy, hmmm, maybe not
[10:29] <tvoss> morphis, ^
[10:30] <tvoss> morphis, do you know if urfkill disables the gps?
[10:30] <tvoss> morphis, would be kinda pointless as a gps receiver is not emitting any signal, but not sure about regulations
[10:30] <mardy> tvoss: what's the name of the location command line client? Just want to make sure that OSMtouch is not messing up
[10:31] <davmor2> tvoss: not that I am aware of as I wrote a bug asking about it and was told it was not needed
[10:32] <tvoss> mardy, ^
[10:32] <tvoss> mardy, probably best to explicitly switch off gps then
[10:32] <davmor2> mardy, tvoss: you would lose the instant fix that you get from agps
[10:33] <tvoss> davmor2, that's a confusing statement :)
[10:34] <davmor2> tvoss: without cell and internet info agps would have no way to get an initial fix right, so you would be limited to gps only which can take a while to get a fix right
[10:34] <tvoss> davmor2, I get that, not sure what you are arguing for or against :)
[10:35] <davmor2> tvoss: no just a statement I thought it wasn't working for someone or something, not read the rest of the context :)
[10:35] <tvoss> davmor2, okay, that makes a little more sense then :)
[10:38] <morphis> tvoss: I know there is not specific urfkill for GPS
[10:38] <morphis> s/urfkill/rfkill/
[10:38] <morphis> but not sure what urfkill does for GPS
[10:39] <tvoss> morphis, I would be surprised if it ties in to the android gps layer
[10:40] <morphis> abeato: you know?
[10:40] <morphis> tvoss: I know urfkill has some hybris* stuff in it
[10:40] <morphis> but if I remember well that was only for WiFi
[10:41] <abeato> morphis, tvoss not really sure what urfkill does for gps, as morphis says it enables/disables wifi
[10:43] <davmor2> tvoss, morphis: Flight mode (urfkill) does wifi/telephony/bluetooth and nothing else as far as I am aware
[10:48] <tvoss> mpt, o/
[10:48] <mpt> \o
[10:48] <tvoss> mpt, updated trust prompt shot: http://pasteboard.co/2qgdLJ0R.png
[10:49] <mpt> tvoss, cool!
[10:49] <tvoss> mpt, the elliding of the name behaves as in the app scope, elliding of the app id ellides from the center to stay readable
[10:50] <mpt> tvoss, what do you think of making the id grey instead of putting it in brackets?
[10:51] <tvoss> mpt, that's fine with me, I selected the font size as small and replaced _ in the app id with / to make it a little more friendly
[10:51] <tvoss> what do you think?
[10:51] <tvoss> _ somewhat looks like "error"
[10:51] <mpt> agreed
[10:51] <seb128> tvoss, can you fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/trust-store/+bug/1382610 while you are changing that dialog? I can provide a patch if needed, but it's only  switching the order of the buttons and changing a label
[10:51] <tvoss> seb128, sure
[10:51] <seb128> thanks
[10:51] <mpt> I was just going to say, yes
[10:52] <mpt> I didn’t know seb128 had reported a bug about it :-)
[10:52] <tvoss> mpt, http://pasteboard.co/2qguqwvi.png
[10:53] <tvoss> mpt, the description never elides, but wraps
[10:53] <mpt> “description” = “wants to access X”?
[10:54] <tvoss> mpt, yup
[10:57] <tvoss> mpt, http://pasteboard.co/2qgPK55k.png
[10:57] <tvoss> mpt, secondary text with UbuntuColors.lightGrey
[10:58] <tvoss> mpt, parenthesis removed
[10:59] <mpt> tvoss, great. Is now a good time to change “Deny” to “Don’t Allow” as well (as seb128 also mentioned in that bug report)? In my MP comment I forgot that detail for a moment.
[10:59] <tvoss> mpt, sure, it's a string change though, which has implications for translations
[10:59] <mpt> right, that’s what I mean by “a good time” :-)
[11:00] <tvoss> mpt, but we have to adjust the translations anyway, as the description is no longer in the format "%1% wants to access %2%"
[11:00] <tvoss> seb128, ^ what do you think?
[11:00] <seb128> tvoss, ota-8 just went out, translation freeze for ota-9 is not before a while
[11:00]  * tvoss thinks having a watermark on the trust prompt would be really helpful
[11:00] <seb128> so +1
[11:01] <tvoss> seb128, ack
[11:01] <seb128> now seems like the perfect time to do it
[11:01] <tvoss> seb128, mpt mind filing a bug for the change?
[11:01] <seb128> what change?
[11:01] <seb128> the Deny -> Don't Allow?
[11:01] <tvoss> seb128, Deny -> Don't allow
[11:01] <tvoss> yup
[11:01] <seb128> I mentioned it on the bug you just assigned to yourself
[11:01] <seb128> the one about the buttons order
[11:01] <tvoss> ah okay
[11:01] <seb128> but I can open another one if you prefer
[11:02] <tvoss> seb128, ah no, that's fine with me
[11:02] <seb128> great
[11:02] <tvoss> mpt, it's "Don't Allow" with a capital "A", correct?
[11:02] <mpt> yep
[11:03] <mpt> tvoss, what do you mean by a watermark?
[11:04] <tvoss> mpt, so let's assume our oobe requests the user to specify a unique image (probably taken with the camera during the oobe wizard) that was only accessible to the trust-store
[11:04] <tvoss> mpt, if we had that, we could "mark" the trust prompt with the unique watermark image, thereby ensuring that it wasn't faked by an app
[11:04] <mpt> tvoss, ah, like I specced for the PolicyKit dialogs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccountPrivileges#icon
[11:06] <tvoss> mpt, something along those lines, yes
[11:06] <tvoss> mpt, are you fine with the eliding I described before?
[11:07] <mpt> tvoss, yep
[11:07] <tvoss> okay, cool
[11:08] <mpt> tvoss, actually, English has this weird thing where ellipsis at start/finish doesn’t have a space after/before it
[11:08] <mpt> tvoss, so in your screenshot it should be “long name for…”, not “long name for …”
[11:08] <tvoss> mpt, hmmm, you would have to talk the qml guys then, I'm just selecting a value from an enumeration
[11:08] <mpt> oh, ok
[11:09] <mardy> tvoss: what's the name of the location command line client? Just want to make sure that OSMtouch is not messing up
[11:09] <tvoss> mardy, oh sorry, let me find it :)
[11:10] <tvoss> mardy, package is *location-service*examples* :) executable should be in /usr/lib/{ARCH}/ubuntu-location-service/examples/client --bus system
[11:10] <tvoss> mardy, use tab for good measure to fix my typos :)
[11:11] <mardy> tvoss: thanks!
[11:14] <mardy> tvoss: yep, it works. I immediately get the same location, same timestamp
[11:15] <mardy> tvoss: if this has to go through QA, better change the steps to use this cli app, instead of here
[11:16] <tvoss> mardy, yup, mind adjusting the silo description?
[11:16] <tvoss> mardy, perfect
[11:17] <mardy> tvoss: sure
[14:05] <samsruti> Hi
[14:26] <shadeslayer> ogra_: hi, I was reverse engineering the scripts to build the ubuntu touch rootfs and came up with this so far http://paste.ubuntu.com/13514952/
[14:26] <ogra_> shadeslayer, apt-get source livecd-rootfs ?
[14:26] <shadeslayer> ogra_: but it doesn't seem to be particularly happy
[14:26] <shadeslayer> ogra_: why source?
[14:27] <shadeslayer> I just install the livecd-rootfs package
[14:27] <ogra_> did you try to use rootstock-ng instead ?
[14:27] <shadeslayer> I have not
[14:27] <ogra_> it does all the necessary wrapping needed for livecd-rootfs
[14:27] <shadeslayer> ogra_: log http://paste.ubuntu.com/13514963/
[14:27] <ogra_> (you need a stacked build chroot for it)
[14:27] <shadeslayer> ogra_: oh, but I need to modify some stuff like package-lists
[14:27] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/project-rootstock-ng
[14:27] <shadeslayer> ( see http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/customizations.tar.gz )
[14:28] <shadeslayer> right, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/trusty-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz is something I need to modify then right, because rootstock-ng doesn't do that
[14:28] <ogra_> rootstock-touch is what you want ...
[14:29] <shadeslayer> oh
[14:29] <ogra_> it allows you to add PPAs
[14:29] <ogra_> (it hasnt been maintained since i stopped working on the phone so it might need some adjustments)
[14:29] <shadeslayer> ok
[14:30] <ogra_> so i guess you could set up a PPA and upload a modified metapackage to that to get your different package set
[14:30] <shadeslayer> ogra_: all of that's already setup, the meta package is called differently though
[14:30] <shadeslayer> and I'm mostly having issues with the live build hooks really
[14:31] <ogra_> well,. they are rather specific for the particular target indeed
[14:31] <shadeslayer> right, except they don't seem to work even with no modifications for me :)
[14:32] <shadeslayer> but seem to work just fine on launchpad
[14:32] <ogra_> why dont you just integrate it properly instead and get a system-image people can just switch to
[14:32] <shadeslayer> yeah, that'd be the correct way of doing it, yes
[14:33] <ogra_> (it could be a channel... then you can just switch channels with a single command on any ubuntu phone out there and our UI will just work )
[14:33] <tvoss> mpt, seb128 so what would be sensible behavior if we cannot find an icon?
[14:33] <ogra_> shadeslayer, well, i dont care about correct/incorrect ... but it would get you immediately a ton of devices out there without you having to care at all
[14:33] <shadeslayer> mmhm
[14:34] <ogra_> like ... every ubuntu phone
[14:34]  * shadeslayer will poke someone
[14:34] <shadeslayer> ogra_: right
[14:34] <ogra_> sudo system-image-cli --switch=plasma-phone-channel ....
[14:34] <ogra_> ;)
[14:34] <mpt> tvoss, that question should be answered by the “give me the icon for this app” API that is also responsible for rounding the corners etc
[14:35] <mpt> tvoss, I’m guessing that API doesn’t currently exist? :-]
[14:35] <tvoss> mpt, well, that api shouldn't handle corner rounding at any rate :)
[14:35] <mpt> What should, then?
[14:35] <Elleo> sil2100: heya; having a bit of trouble getting silo 17 working after switching it to vivid only; changed a few of the MRs to new vivid specific ones but getting odd "not a branch" bzr errors show up, does it need cleaning again in some way? or am I doing something else wrong?
[14:35] <tvoss> mpt, well, the component responsible for actually rendering the icon obviously
[14:36] <tvoss> mpt, but that's a different question
[14:36] <ogra_> shadeslayer, in any case, i'd recommend using rootstock-touch to get the right build env setup
[14:36] <sil2100> Elleo: let me take a look, uno momento
[14:36] <ogra_> if you do it out of archive
[14:37] <mpt> tvoss, ok, so I should have said “component” rather than “API” … Anyway, I’d expect that component to display a placeholder of some sort if it still hasn’t loaded the real icon after ~1 second
[14:38] <shadeslayer> ogra_: ack, I'm looking into it
[14:38] <shadeslayer> and seeing what's blocking us from uploading to launchpad and using the livefs builds
[14:38] <tvoss> mpt, that's not how our ui framework operates. anyway: I will ask the u8 guys
[14:39] <Elleo> sil2100: thanks
[14:41] <mpt> tvoss, I’d expect it to be exactly the same placeholder regardless of whether it’s showing (or trying to show) an app icon in the Dash, in a System Settings screen, in a trust prompt, or anywhere else
[14:44] <shadeslayer> ogra_: I've been told that we would at the very least need a PPA with actual real arm hw
[14:44] <shadeslayer> because qemu'd builds won't cut it
[14:44] <shadeslayer> which is why we build the packages from our own CI at the moment
[14:44] <shadeslayer> ogra_: is there a way to make that happen?
[15:08] <popey> shadeslayer, you can request a real hardware armhf builder, but in launchpad I believe they're restricted (for security reasons) to Canonical employees only.
[15:09] <popey> shadeslayer, the other option being buy a few cheap chromebook / raspberry pi / beaglebone / odroid .. ;)
[15:10] <shadeslayer> popey: I have arm builders from my company, but then we can't leverage lp for the livefs builds ;)
[15:10] <popey> Right, bummer
[15:10] <k1l> iirc you can request PPAs to be build for arm too.
[15:10] <shadeslayer> qemu'd
[15:11] <shadeslayer> won't work for some of the KDE packages
[15:11] <k1l> ah ok
[15:11]  * shadeslayer has a idea
[15:13] <sil2100> Elleo: still looking, but it looks like an internal issue, so not something you did wrong
[15:15] <Elleo> sil2100: okay, thanks
[15:16] <Elleo> sil2100: not sure if I might need to ask people for other MRs targetting their respective vivid branches as well now that it's vivid only?
[15:24] <shadeslayer> ogra_: isn't there a way to specify the ubuntu rootfs via ubuntu-device-flash :(
[15:24] <ogra_> nope
[15:24] <shadeslayer> damn :(
[15:25] <shadeslayer> I guess I can reuse the rootstock stuff to convert it into a image and fastboot flash that instead
[15:37] <sil2100> Elleo: hmmm, ok, silo building... I actually tried building with 'indicator-transfer' mentioned explicitly and it worked
[15:38] <sil2100> Elleo: I suppose it might be also a leftover from one of the transitions Robert was doing in the train, so not related even to your switch from dual to vivid
[15:38] <sil2100> Elleo: most probably once this finishes, there should be no further problems as I see it re-created the indicator-transfer directories
[15:49] <shadeslayer> ogra_: so, I ran rootstock-touch-install on a tarball I have, and then ... nothing
[15:50] <shadeslayer> do I have to reboot into recovery again?
[15:52] <ogra_> shadeslayer, there is a README, in the tree ...
[15:52] <ogra_> i'm not sure it still works ... as i said it has been unmaintained quite a while
[15:52] <ogra_> (the -install script)
[15:52] <shadeslayer> mhmm
[15:52] <ogra_> also it can only work on nexus devices ...
[15:53] <shadeslayer> ah
[15:53] <shadeslayer> I'm using a E5
[15:53] <shadeslayer> readme has a typo btw :P
[15:53] <shadeslayer> ./rootsotck-touch-install
[15:53] <ogra_> ah, yeah, the production phones use actual partitions where the nexus devices use loop mounted images
[15:54] <ogra_> (so the partitioning doesnt need to be changed on developer devices)
[15:54] <ogra_> the install script only handles the loop case
[15:54] <shadeslayer> okay, is it possible to manually untar the tarball onto the right partition then?
[15:55] <ogra_> you can try ;) no idea
[15:58] <shadeslayer> ogra_: oh and the custom tarball is unpacked ontop of the rootfs right?
[15:58] <ogra_> yeah ... but the bits use specific dirs iirc
[15:59] <shadeslayer> yeah :/
[15:59] <ogra_> ypou have to check the code
[16:00] <Elleo> sil2100: cool, thanks
[16:00] <Elleo> sil2100: erk, it's showing a similar error for ubuntu-system-settings now
[16:01] <Elleo> sil2100: do I just ask it to build ubuntu-system-settings on its own?
[16:01] <Elleo> sil2100: ah yeah, that seems to be working
[16:02] <sil2100> Elleo: yeah...
[16:02] <Elleo> sil2100: guess I might have to do that for the others too
[16:02] <sil2100> I think this might need repeating ;/
[16:02] <sil2100> It looks like a train bug to me
[16:02] <Elleo> sil2100: it's entirely possible it's something I messed up, as I've been adding and removing MRs a bit after the switch from dual to vivid
[16:17] <tvoss> mardy, updated to account for security request and design guidelines: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/trust-store/fix-1504022/+merge/278418
[16:19] <mardy> tvoss: mmm... I might need to do something similar in OA...
[16:19] <tvoss> mardy, please elaborate
[16:20] <mardy> mpt: I guess we need to update the OA permission request screen in a similar way?
[16:20] <mardy> tvoss: in Online Accounts we also have a permission request screen, which is a bit more complex that this
[16:20] <mpt> mardy, hmm, yes
[16:21] <mardy> mpt: I wonder if space might be a problem there
[16:21] <mardy> well, I guess not
[16:23] <tvoss> mardy, ah okay
[16:28] <mardy> tvoss: that screeenshot is coming from that QML file?
[16:28] <tvoss> mardy, yup
[16:29] <mardy> tvoss: I thought that one had to set the anchors on Column in order to make it use the full width of the parent
[16:29] <mardy> tvoss: but if it's smarter than I thought, all the better :-)
[16:30] <mardy> tvoss: reapproved :-)
[16:50] <tvoss> mardy, would you mind giving https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/657 a spin?
[17:06] <shadeslayer> ogra_: hurray, I hacked up ubuntu_command to flash my image after flashing ubuntu on the E5 :P
[17:09] <shadeslayer> still not happy though [  111.076811]systemd-logind[5359]: Failed to start user service: Unknown unit<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:21] <Elleo> sil2100: heya, any idea what causes the "Not in PPA" errors?
[17:21] <Elleo> sil2100: (still with silo 17)
[17:22] <ogra_> shadeslayer, weird, given the phone does not use systemd at all
[17:23] <ogra_> oh, wait, thats only logind
[17:26] <shadeslayer> ogra_: mmh, well, presumably there's other stuff going on as well on account of it being plasma and not unity :)
[17:27] <ogra_> yeah, llikely
[17:27]  * shadeslayer tries flashing without formatting /system
[18:55] <slash> Hello, do you know a way to mount folder at every boot ?


[09:08] <timClicks> fyi ubuntu hiring http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_SE%20CS%20JK%2001-01/
[09:08] <timClicks> excuse me, canonical is hiring
[09:40]  * ojwb blinks at the "2001"
[09:41] <ojwb> but it's actually a url encoded space 01
[09:43]  * ojwb ticks all the boxes
[09:43] <ojwb> don't think it's a job I'd want though
[09:46] <ojwb> "Involvement in open source projects in the past" seems a poor way to put it
[09:46] <ojwb> but perhaps they'd rather someone not currently involved applied