[00:53]  * hggdh is away: walking the dogs
[08:36] <wgrant> seb128: bryce acked my patches for bug #207781, and I've rebased the g-s-d one on your latest upload.
[08:37] <seb128> wgrant: hi, ok thanks, will sponsor those a bit later, I'm just waking up and catching up on mails from the night now
[08:37] <wgrant> seb128: Pfft, devs can't sleep! OK.
[08:37] <wgrant> Thanks.
[08:37] <seb128> ;-)
[08:37] <seb128> you're welcome, thank you for your work on the issue
[09:11] <huats> morning everyone
[10:26] <seb128> lool: hey
[10:27] <seb128> lool: how did you fix your libtool errors on pygobject yesterday?
[10:32] <lool>     - Update patch 90_autofoo and update instructions to run libtoolize
[10:32] <lool>       --force --copy.
[10:32] <lool> seb128: ^
[10:32] <lool> The first time I did this, I forgot to replace the contents in the patch in 90_autofoo
[10:32] <lool> When I actually did it, it worked
[10:32] <seb128> lool: I copied the line in the patch but that gives me the same errors you had
[10:32] <lool> However Keybuk pushed for not using --force
[10:32] <lool> seb128: Which module is it?
[10:33] <seb128> lool: pygobject, there is a 2.15.3 available
[10:33] <seb128> lool: it was already available yesterday but I forgot to tell you
[10:33] <seb128> so they didn't change anything yet for the libs, etc, I just need to refresh the autofoo patch
[10:34] <seb128> "libtoolize --force --copy && aclocal-1.10 -I m4 && automake-1.10 --add-missing --force --copy && autoconf && rm -rf autom4te.cache" is what is in the patch and what I tried
[10:34] <lool> seb128: Hmm well I hope it works; if not I have other things I could try
[10:35] <seb128> and I get
[10:35] <seb128> ../libtool: line 833: X--tag=CC: command not found
[10:35] <seb128> etc
[10:35] <lool> Hmmm hmm
[10:35] <seb128> hate autotools ;-)
[10:36] <lool> You could try with --install in libtoolize; that's what I had in mind yesterday, but it might require dropping --force from a couple of places
[10:36] <lool> Sadly, I'm not educated enough to understand --install exactly
[10:36] <seb128> ok, I asked because I was wondering if you tweaking the commands again and didn't update the instructions
[10:36] <seb128> thanks
[10:36] <lool> And I've been not using it for years, as does gnome-common, so wanted to stick to the classical calls
[10:39] <lool> seb128: One thing which differs is that config.guess now ends up in the diff for some reason
[10:40] <lool> seb128: Hmm it worked for me
[10:41] <lool> seb128: Did you apply the other patches notably the one setting the macro dir?
[10:41] <lool> (2.15.3 is building here)
[10:41] <seb128> lool: I did quilt push -f 90_autofoo
[10:41] <seb128> copied your line
[10:41] <seb128> quilt refresh
[10:41] <seb128> quilt pop -a
[10:41] <seb128> debuild
[10:42] <seb128> hum, weird
[10:42] <lool> Ah in all cases you shouldn't do that
[10:42] <lool> seb128: That's the typical quilt issue that it wont pick up new files in your patch
[10:42] <lool> seb128: Do autotoools diff manually, or use differ
[10:43] <seb128> well, I assumed that your patch was modifying the same files so they were already added
[10:43] <lool> That's risky really
[10:43] <lool> I don't know whether it's the problem, but it could be
[10:44] <lool> seb128: I also updated instructions to drop config.guess from the diff; but that's certainly unrelated
[10:44] <seb128> lool: alright, while you are at it and it's building for you, do you mind uploading the new version? I don't think other changes are required
[10:45] <lool> seb128: That's what I was about to ask
[10:45] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[10:46] <lool> grrr W: pygobject source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff config.guess
[10:46] <lool> anyway
[10:47] <lool> seb128: (I uploaded but didn't test)
[10:48] <seb128> lool: (that's the intrepid way, isn't it ;-)
[10:48] <seb128> thanks
[10:48] <seb128> I'll test when it's published
[10:48] <lool> Heh I usually test my uploads!
[10:49] <seb128> yeah, me too, I usually restart my session to test updates (not for random apps, but libs, gnome-panel, gnome-session, etc)
[10:50] <seb128> NCommander: hey, around?
[10:51] <lool> seb128: Uhoh
[10:51] <lool> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  alacarte
[10:51] <lool> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  gnome-app-install
[10:52] <seb128> urg
[10:52] <lool> Crashes in init_gtk()
[10:52] <seb128> that's always like that, updates that you try are fine but when you don't try one it's buggy
[10:52] <lool> Exactly what I wanted to say
[10:52] <seb128> I'm wondering if pygtk should be updated to 2.13 in the same run
[10:52] <lool> Yes, that's what I think as well
[10:53] <seb128> you can as well do an another quick upload to Breaks: python-gtk (<< 2.13)
[10:53] <seb128> that will stop updates
[10:56] <fta2> seb128, hi, did you do have a chance to look at cairo since yesterday ?
[10:57] <seb128> fta2: no, will do that today, I've been swamped with catching up after holidays and new GNOME
[10:57] <fta2> ok, np
[10:57] <seb128> fta2: it's one of the next things on my list after the gvfs update I'm building
[10:59] <fta2> great
[11:02] <seb128> brb, trying the new gvfs
[11:14] <Keybuk> seb128: don't suppose you hand a screenshot of the new dialog handy?
[11:15] <seb128> Keybuk: screenshots on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507101
[11:15] <seb128> and vuntz didn't manage to get the patch in yesterday tarball, I'll probably distro patch it
[11:16] <Keybuk> please do
[11:18] <crevette> hey
[11:24] <lool> Hmm running Xvfb in a chroot gives me: (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
[11:25] <lool> libgl1-mesa-dri looks like what I want
[11:31] <lool> seb128: Unfortunately, it seems to crash even with new pygtk
[11:31] <lool> make[3]: *** [check-local] Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[11:31] <seb128> not cool
[11:38] <dholbach> test
[11:38] <dholbach> DOING gedit 2.99.99
[11:38] <dholbach> STOPPED DOING gedit 2.99.99 (version does not exist)
[11:40] <lool> DONE test of new bug bot?
[11:40] <seb128> lool: no, new way to claim updates
[11:41] <seb128> lool: using chan logs parsing
[11:47] <Keybuk> hurrah for Google Chrome
[11:47] <Keybuk> another webkit-based firefox killer
[11:57] <seb128> fta2: still around? my font look different using the new libcairo
[11:58] <seb128> I'm not sure I like the change but maybe the new libcairo is correct
[11:58] <seb128> anyway I'm going to upload, that need testing and fixing if required rather than being hold back
[11:58] <Keybuk> what changed?
[11:58] <seb128> Keybuk: in the rendering or in cairo?
[11:59] <Keybuk> rendering
[11:59] <seb128> not sure, font changes are not easy to describe, I'll try to take a screenshot
[12:00] <seb128> I would say the lines are "sharper" now
[12:03] <Keybuk> sounds like an LCD filter change?
[12:03] <seb128> could be yes
[12:03] <stefanlsd> seb128: Mind if i have a look at upgrading to pidgin 2.5.1?
[12:03] <seb128> the update is 1.6 patched to 1.7 upstream
[12:04] <seb128> stefanlsd: hi, it requires a freeze exception, and do you know how to update the symbol files, etc?
[12:06] <stefanlsd> seb128: understand bout the freeze exception. Dont know about symbol files but would like to learn...
[12:07] <stefanlsd> seb128: I think exception should be ok - http://developer.pidgin.im/query?status=closed&milestone=2.5.1   list of bugs closed.  Doesnt look like many new features.
[12:07] <seb128> stefanlsd: you can have a look if you want but I'm just back from holidays and I've a lot to do so it's not the best time to reply to question for me, maybe try the motu team rather
[12:08] <seb128> stefanlsd: right
[12:08] <stefanlsd> seb128: I think the big bug fixed is the connecting to MSN servers. Other LP bugs open about this one also.  kk. Thanks. Will have a look and work with motu.  thanks!
[12:09] <seb128> you're welcome
[12:13] <seb128> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/cairo.png
[12:13] <seb128> the top one is cairo 1.6 patched the bottom one is 1.7
[12:15] <seb128> I found the contrast better before
[12:24] <fta2> seb128, yes, i also experienced this. this looks sharper but it's not bad for me. just a bit different. i'm not sure if it's expected, a wider audience could help
[12:24] <Keybuk> err
[12:24] <Keybuk> that looks like the lcd filter patch has been dropped
[12:25] <fta2> Keybuk, no, it has been merged
[12:25] <Keybuk> fta2: if you look at the N on the lower of the two, it only has a single black vertical line
[12:25] <Keybuk> whereas with the patch above, there are two light fringe lines around it
[12:26] <Keybuk> in fact, in the entire bottom line, you only get fringing in curves
[12:26] <Keybuk> which was the cairo behaviour pre-patch
[12:26] <Keybuk> ie. in 1.6 native upstream without our lcd filter patch
[12:26] <fta2> i'm surprised noone complained upstream (which is basically redhat)
[12:27] <Keybuk> so if the patch has been merged, it's been bodged
[12:27] <Keybuk> or not activated
[12:28] <Keybuk> (well, when I say "our" I really mean David Turner's patch)
[12:28] <fta2> there's no control for it, it's just there and interact with fontconfig
[12:28] <Keybuk> fta2: I'll pick through the code and see what got lost
[12:28] <seb128> Keybuk: thanks
[12:34] <vuntz> seb128: yeah, I'm not sure I'll be able to convince people to commit the new logout dialog now :/ Calum doesn't seem happy about it
[12:34] <seb128> vuntz: hey
[12:35] <seb128> vuntz: btw what do you do you to get compiz used only on cards where it's working on opensuse?
[12:35] <seb128> vuntz: the redhat guys dropped the gnome-wm changes in 2.23.91, I think I'll revert that for ubuntu
[12:36] <vuntz> seb128: there's a compiz-manager script that does all the magic
[12:36] <seb128> what magic?
[12:36] <vuntz> detection
[12:36] <seb128> right, but does it start something else if compiz can't be used?
[12:36] <vuntz> yes
[12:36] <lool> Oh thanks guys from bring up this topic: gnome-wm is complete crash
[12:36] <lool> *crack
[12:37] <seb128> and doesn't it confuse gnome-session if there is no compiz registering?
[12:37] <vuntz> seb128: the answer is probably yes, but what do you mean? :-)
[12:37] <lool> it will set the gconf key of which WM to run, even if the user never changed anything; it doesn't really allow one to override the wm
[12:37] <vuntz> lool: that was a distro patch, I'd say ;-)
[12:37] <lool> vuntz: It is in the distro patch, but I'm pretty sure it's upstream as well
[12:37] <vuntz> did anyone see Amaranth recently?
[12:38] <seb128> vuntz: well, gnome-session starts compiz but the compiz wrapper decides compiz can't be used and start openbox for example, isn't gnome-session waiting on compiz registration in the session to continue?
[12:38] <vuntz> lool: ah, maybe in 2.23
[12:38] <seb128> vuntz: no
[12:39] <vuntz> seb128: absolutely no idea
[12:39] <vuntz> seb128: mccann stopped shipping gnome-wm in the latest tarball
[12:39] <seb128> vuntz: right, and I've no wm starting when using .91
[12:39] <seb128> score
[12:39] <vuntz> it's still just a mess
[12:39] <lool> vuntz: Indeed, the code was cleaned up it seems
[12:39] <crevette> hello
[12:40] <lool> I think we should move away of our awful gnome-wm in Debian/Ubuntu
[12:40] <vuntz> lool: in 2.22, this was not upstream and purely ubuntu (and maybe fedora) issue
[12:40] <seb128> vuntz: first the gconf key which was used in 2.23.90 is not used, so it's ignoring my compiz setting
[12:40] <vuntz> seb128: so, the good news is that I'll be able to fix this. The bad news is "not this week"
[12:41] <seb128> vuntz: then it doesn't find any wm .desktop because it doesn't look in the right directory
[12:41] <seb128> lool: the gnome-wm used in ubuntu is the upstream one
[12:42] <lool> Then what I'm saying is obsolete now; I can't complain anymore
[12:43] <vuntz> did anyone see Amaranth recently?
[12:44] <seb128> vuntz: no
[13:57] <lool> seb128: Do you think you could check whether you get the crash of pygtk apps on i386?
[13:57] <seb128> lool: sure, give me some minutes to download and build 2.15.3
[13:57] <lool> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/pygtk/2.13.0-0ubuntu1/intrepid/ is the new pygtk
[13:58] <lool> seb128: I've not pushed it though; it requires the new pygobject which crashes and hence the testsuite fails
[13:58] <seb128> lool: should I update pygobject and pygtk or only pygobject?
[13:58] <lool> seb128: Only pygobject should cause the crash
[13:58] <lool> seb128: i'm handing you the pygtk tree just in case to avoid work duplication
[13:58] <seb128> ok thanks
[13:59] <lool> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(1058) [sender=3.0.3]
[13:59] <lool> Intersting
[14:00] <seb128> lool: doesn't crash
[14:00] <seb128> I installed the current intrepid version using using dpkg and forcing the breaks
[14:01] <seb128> alacarte gnome-app-install update-manager work correctly
[14:08] <lool> seb128: Ok, thanks for testing
[14:08] <seb128> re
[14:08] <seb128> lool: sorry, restart to try some changes
[14:08] <seb128> lool: everything works fine on i386, I'm lucky that you did the update ;-)
[14:09] <seb128> I would not have figured about the issue before we started receiving bugs otherwise
[14:19] <wgrant> seb128: Am I likely to see my g-c-c and g-s-d patches in before the Alpha?
[14:20] <seb128> wgrant: yes
[14:20] <wgrant> seb128: Thanks.
[14:20]  * wgrant -> bed
[14:20] <seb128> 'night wgrant
[15:45] <seb128> gicmo: do you have an ipod?
[15:46] <gicmo> yes
[15:46] <seb128> gicmo: could you try something for me, start rhythmbox, plug the ipod and try to eject it in rhythmbox
[15:48] <gicmo> hmm Ronja has it with her, need to wait for a bit until she arrives
[15:48] <seb128> ok
[15:49] <seb128> gicmo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/263903 has a valgrind log of the issue but lacks debug symbols
[15:49] <seb128> invalid read and free in the gvfs volume monitor code apparently
[15:50] <gicmo> that new volume monitoring code is trouble
[15:50] <seb128> yeah, I should try to ping davidz about it
[15:51] <seb128> I guess he's busy doing devicekit and doesn't look much a gvfs nowadays
[15:52] <seb128> gicmo: I guess the crash is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546971
[15:53] <gicmo> hmm maybe some locking issue
[16:03] <seb128> gicmo: do you know why valgrind has those:
[16:04] <seb128> --14017-- Discarding syms at 0x74ED000-0x7506000 in /usr/lib/gio/modules/libgioremote-volume-monitor.so due to munmap()
[16:04] <seb128> I'm wondering if that's the reason why the valgrind logs for the trash crashes lack debug symbols for example
[16:04] <gicmo> hmm
[16:07] <seb128> gicmo: I've attached a valgrind log on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546971, could you have a look and tell me if you think it's useful?
[16:07]  * gicmo ooks
[16:08] <gicmo> (rhythmbox:14017): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion
[16:08] <gicmo> `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
[16:08] <gicmo> eewwks
[16:10] <seb128> hum, imho rhythmbox is not clean either there
[16:11] <seb128> gicmo: ok, need log on the same bug which seems better
[16:11] <gicmo> need log?
[16:12] <seb128> new log
[16:12] <seb128> that one seems to be a rhythmbox bug
[16:12] <tedg> mpt: So in the FUSA applet we have an "other" option, which is basically do a FUSA transition but not to a specific user, just to the login screen.  I'm curious if there isn't a better analogy to what is happening there.  Something like "Pause Session."  I don't think "Other" really works.  Thoughts?
[16:13] <mpt> ooh, interesting
[16:13] <mpt> Mac OS X calls this "Login Window...", which tells me they couldn't think of a good label for it either
[16:14] <tedg> mpt: They can't figure out how to put more than one button on their phone, I'm not sure they should be the gold standard ;)
[16:14] <mpt> tedg, how is this usefully different from "Lock Screen"?
[16:15] <gicmo> seb128: the code where valgrin points us to looks okish here
[16:15] <tedg> mpt: Really?  Not much.  Lock screen launches the screensaver and defaults to login in as the same user.  While "Other" results in a clean slate login.  Both effectively pause the sesion the same.
[16:15] <seb128> gicmo: yes
[16:16] <tedg> mpt: I guess lock screen also allows you to leave notes.  Critical feature.
[16:16] <mpt> bah
[16:17] <gicmo> seb128: #0  0xb6dfecc8 in strcmp () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
[16:17] <gicmo> No symbol table info available.
[16:17] <gicmo> #1  0xb5834e11 in g_proxy_volume_update (volume=0x92d5d00, iter=0xbf9cb6fc) at
[16:17] <gicmo> gproxyvolume.c:227
[16:17] <seb128> gicmo: what about this one?
[16:17] <gicmo> seb128: s the crash is   if (volume->id != NULL && strcmp (volume->id, id) != 0)
[16:17] <seb128> gicmo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/42723/
[16:17] <mpt> tedg, ah, I have a suggestion
[16:17] <seb128> gicmo: volume is being used after being freed apparently
[16:17] <gicmo> seb128: means either id, or volume->id is bogus
[16:18] <gicmo> seb128: yep, that was my guess as well
[16:18] <seb128> gicmo: should volume being unref-ed? maybe a ref counting on the gvfs side?
[16:18] <gicmo> seb128: so this is prolly a race between the one thing that frees shit and the other one that reuses it, right?
[16:18] <seb128> ref counting issue
[16:18] <mpt> tedg, call it "Switch To...", and put it immediately above the list of user accounts. Then indent each account name underneath. That way, as well as being a functioning menu item, it serves as an incidental introductory explanation of the purpose of the user account items.
[16:18] <gicmo> seb128: or that, indeed
[16:18] <seb128> gicmo: or that
[16:18] <seb128> I hate ref counting issues
[16:18] <seb128> never know how to debug those
[16:19] <gicmo> seb128: with the nice GObject env varibles
[16:19] <seb128> gicmo: tell me about it ;-)
[16:20] <tedg> mpt: Hmm... interesting.  I'm not quite sure how an intent should work in a menu.  It seems bad to indent the icons, but then just indenting the text seems wrong also.
[16:21] <mpt> tedg, what does it look like at the moment? I tried it with yesterday's daily live CD, but it crashed whenever I tried to open it
[16:21] <tedg> mpt: Let me send you a screenshot.
[16:22] <gicmo> GOBJECT_DEBUG
[16:22] <gicmo> seb128: set it to objects
[16:24] <gicmo> seb128: can you reproduce that crash reliably?
[16:25] <seb128> gicmo: every time, I pinged davidz, see #gnome-hackers, he will look into it
[16:25] <gicmo> seb128: sure, sure
[16:25] <gicmo> seb128: we are on our own, I guess ;-)
[16:28] <gicmo> seb128: if you can reproduce the crash fine, how about adding a
[16:28] <gicmo> g_print ("%s, %s", volume->id, id);
[16:28] <gicmo> to find out which id is NULL
[16:30] <gicmo> seb128: args, there is lots of async stuff going on
[16:30] <gicmo> seb128: I think, I even touched that code
[16:30] <gicmo> its easy to mess that ref counting up
[16:33] <seb128> gicmo: where are printed the monitors logs? on the gvfsd stdout?
[16:33] <gicmo> seb128: guess so
[16:34] <gicmo> seb128: or wait, maybe gvfs-hal-volume-monitor
[16:34] <seb128> (gdb) p *volume
[16:34] <seb128> $2 = {parent = {g_type_instance = {g_class = 0x9022998}, ref_count = 0, qdata = 0x12},
[16:34] <seb128>   volume_monitor = 0x9021b30, id = 0x1 <Address 0x1 out of bounds>, name = 0x0,
[16:34] <seb128>   uuid = 0x1 <Address 0x1 out of bounds>, activation_uri = 0x400 <Address 0x400 out of bounds>,
[16:34] <seb128>   icon = 0xffffd400, drive_id = 0x1f800 <Address 0x1f800 out of bounds>,
[16:34] <seb128>   mount_id = 0x2c00 <Address 0x2c00 out of bounds>, identifiers = 0x0, foreign_mount = 0xffffcc00,
[16:34] <seb128>   can_mount = 130048, should_automount = 17408}
[16:34] <seb128> 227	  if (volume->id != NULL && strcmp (volume->id, id) != 0)
[16:34] <seb128> so volume is already freed
[16:34] <seb128> or something is corrupting the id
[16:35] <seb128> (gdb) p id
[16:35] <seb128> $3 = 0x90fb734 "0x8e0a700"
[16:35] <gicmo> seb128: p id gives what?
[16:35] <gicmo> ahh you can read my mind!
[16:35] <gicmo> p *id ?
[16:35] <gicmo> but that looks totally valid
[16:35] <seb128> (gdb) p *id
[16:35] <seb128> $4 = 48 '0'
[16:36] <seb128> imho there is a ref counting issue and volume is already freed there
[16:36] <gicmo> seb128: how about adding a g_print () to the volume_finalize () function?
[16:36] <gicmo> or wait
[16:36] <gicmo> better
[16:37] <gicmo> set a breakpoint
[16:37] <gicmo> and then do a "bt"
[16:38] <seb128> gicmo: to
[16:38] <seb128> g_proxy_volume_finalize()?
[16:39] <gicmo> yeah
[16:39] <gicmo> seb128: lets find out who unrefs the last reference
[16:42] <seb128> gicmo: it's called once on rhythmbox startup and not between the click to eject and the crash, wth?
[16:42] <gicmo> ugh!
[16:42] <gicmo> on startup?
[16:42] <seb128> I did try to gdb the application though
[16:43] <seb128> gicmo: when plugging the ipod
[16:43] <seb128> Breakpoint 1, g_proxy_volume_finalize (object=0x9b95100) at gproxyvolume.c:81
[16:43] <seb128> 81	  volume = G_PROXY_VOLUME (object);
[16:43] <seb128> (gdb) bt
[16:43] <seb128> #0  g_proxy_volume_finalize (object=0x9b95100) at gproxyvolume.c:81
[16:43] <seb128> #1  0xb70f0f33 in IA__g_object_unref (_object=0x9b95100) at /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.17.7/gobject/gobject.c:2411
[16:43] <seb128> #2  0xb5799c29 in signal_emit_in_idle_do (data=0x9cd1f28) at gproxyvolumemonitor.c:392
[16:43] <seb128> #3  0xb6f14881 in g_idle_dispatch (source=0xa705510, callback=0x9ce3610, user_data=0x9cd1f28)
[16:43] <gicmo> aha
[16:44] <mpt> tedg, ah, I see
[16:45] <mpt> tedg, "Restart" and "Shut Down" shouldn't be indented either
[16:45] <gicmo> seb128: ok, that function takes a ref and release a ref
[16:45] <gicmo> seb128: means that the application shouldn't be doing anything with the ref itself
[16:46] <mpt> tedg, so for the items that should have icons, can you include the icons as part of the item text, so that they don't move the left edge of the text for those items that don't have icons?
[16:47] <mpt> i.e.
[16:47] <mpt> Switch To...
[16:47] <mpt> [] foo
[16:47] <mpt> [] bar
[16:47] <mpt> ---------
[16:48] <mpt> Log Out
[16:48] <seb128> gicmo: ok, did "c", there is a second breakpoint
[16:48] <seb128> #0  g_proxy_volume_finalize (object=0xa756a60) at gproxyvolume.c:81
[16:48] <mpt> Restart
[16:48] <seb128> #1  0xb70f0f33 in IA__g_object_unref (_object=0xa756a60) at /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.17.7/gobject/gobject.c:2411
[16:48] <seb128> #2  0x0807fad9 in rb_removable_media_manager_add_mount (mgr=0x9ec60c8, mount=0xa757320)
[16:48] <seb128>     at rb-removable-media-manager.c:582
[16:48] <gicmo> seb128: I am already at that very code palce
[16:48] <seb128> gicmo: ;-)
[16:49] <seb128> and it's not called after that until the crash
[16:54] <gicmo> seb128: I dont see that damn g_object_unref
[16:54] <gicmo> I only see an unref ot a mount
[16:54] <seb128> gicmo: can't gdb put a watch on a variable?
[16:54] <seb128> to break when it changes or is freed?
[16:55] <gicmo> watch
[17:02] <gicmo> seb128: are you seeing my query?
[17:03] <seb128> gicmo: yes
[17:25] <tedg> mpt, well can, yes.  That's non-standard for GNOME apps.
[17:25] <tedg> mpt, normally the text is in one column an the icons another.  The text is shifted if there are any icons in the menu.
[17:28] <mpt> tedg, Gnome applications use icons for any menu item they can. This menu does not: this menu uses icons as an exception, representing statuses and people, rather than as a rule.
[17:28] <tedg> mpt: The only items that _don't_ have icons are the session ones.  The status ones have icons and all the user-switching items have icons.
[17:29] <mpt> tedg, yes, the exceptions outnumber the rule-followers, but I don't think that matters
[17:30] <mpt> tedg, for example, the items without icons in <http://z.about.com/d/browsers/1/5/K/0/-/-/safarihistory2.jpg> don't change their indentation just because they're outnumbered by those with icons.
[17:32] <tedg> mpt: Hmm, let me play with some stuff.  I'm not excited about this yet, but I think that it is going somewhere.  I'll draw up something and send it to you.
[17:32] <mpt> ok
[23:08] <seb128> hey NCommander
[23:09] <NCommander> hey seb128
[23:09] <seb128> NCommander: did you read my comment about pangomm yesterday?
[23:09] <NCommander> seb128, nope
[23:09] <seb128> there is an example which is under the GPL
[23:09] <seb128> but the tarball has no GPL license
[23:09] <seb128> did you contact upstream about that?
[23:10] <NCommander> seb128, no, I did note it in the copyright file though
[23:11] <seb128> lool didn't point it as an issue?
[23:11] <seb128> NCommander: it might be rejected in debian NEW due to that
[23:11] <seb128> I didn't sponsor to ubuntu yet
[23:11] <NCommander> If lool did, it was too long along for me to remember
[23:11] <NCommander> s/along/long/g
[23:11] <NCommander> er
[23:11] <NCommander> ...
[23:11] <NCommander> *fails*
[23:15] <seb128> well it's really a detail
[23:15] <seb128> but technically if there is a source under the GPL the license text should be in the tarball
[23:15] <seb128> or it's not distributable
[23:27] <lool> NCommander: I missed that example under GPL
[23:27] <lool> NCommander: Which file is it?
[23:28] <lool> seb128: Can I push pygobject with the fix?  shall I check with slangasek?
[23:28] <NCommander> seb128, not if the full text of the license is in the the example itself
[23:28] <seb128> lool: no, just upload, there is already a bug complain about ubuntu-desktop not being installable right now and that breaks builds
[23:28] <lool> seb128: I have pygtk in the pipe as well
[23:29] <NCommander> lool, I don't remember off hand, someone noted it to me, and I remember adding it to the copyright file
[23:29] <seb128> lool: I still have a bunch of GNOME 2.23.91 tarballs I'll upload tomorrow
[23:29] <seb128> NCommander: the license text is a several pages text and is not in the example ;-)
[23:30] <lool> seb128: What happens when a FFE is granted exactly?
[23:30] <lool> seb128: I filed a FFE, but I don't know what I'm actually supposed to watch for
[23:30] <lool> (I subed ubuntu-release)
[23:30] <seb128> lool: you don't need a FFE
[23:30] <lool> (on Friday)
[23:31] <lool> seb128: it's for another package
[23:31] <seb128> ah for something else
[23:31] <NCommander> lool & seb128 damn it :-/. I wish I caught that beforehand
[23:31] <seb128> you will get somebody from the corresponding team giving an ack and changing the status, then you can upload
[23:31] <seb128> depends if that's main or universe
[23:31] <lool> seb128: The packages are elisa and its plugins
[23:31] <lool> in main
[23:32] <NCommander> Multiple people looked at it, which annoys me as well that we all missed it :-/
[23:32] <seb128> just pitti slangasek or pitti on IRC to get your ack then ;-)
[23:32] <seb128> s/pitti/ping
[23:34] <lool> NCommander: grep "GNU General" -rl * only yields tools/extra_defs_gen/generate_defs_pango.cc and it's covered in the copyright file
[23:34] <NCommander> Yeah, I know, I caught that
[23:34] <lool> seb128: Ok; I'll poke him again then
[23:35] <seb128> lool: right, but there is no GPL license in the tarball
[23:35] <lool> seb128: I was asking because I wondered whether a tag would be set or somesuch
[23:35] <NCommander> But I didn't catch there wasn't a COPYING file in the tarball that had the GPL
[23:35] <lool> Oh
[23:35] <NCommander> Yeah >.<;
[23:35] <NCommander> d'oh
[23:35] <lool> That's an upstream issue; it wont be rejected in Debian for that I would guess
[23:36] <NCommander> If it clears the NEW queue, I'll just leave a bug on pangomm's bug tracker
[23:36] <seb128> those issues usually warant a NEW rejection in ubuntu
[23:36] <seb128> NCommander: you can open a bug in any case
[23:36] <NCommander> seb128, right, I plan to
[23:36] <NCommander> BTW, lool or seb128 you know anything about managing seeds?
[23:36] <NCommander> I'm pushing a change into the xubuntu seed, but I'm not sure I did it right
[23:37] <NCommander> (i.e., I made the change to the files right
[23:37] <seb128> that's documented on the wiki
[23:38] <lool> NCommander: You can't do anything else than file a bug in the upstream tracker anyway
[23:38] <NCommander> lool, I'll be suprised if it doesn't clear NEW, but I got to say the speed of the queue is suprising
[23:38] <NCommander> I don't remember my other packages taking this long to clear
[23:39] <seb128> the focus is probably on lenny and not on new uploads
[23:40] <NCommander> that's what I keep telling myself
[23:40]  * NCommander is currently burning his way through T&S
[23:51] <lool> Doing glib 2.18.0
[23:53] <seb128> lool: thanks, don't forget to get some sleep too you deserve it ;-)
[23:54] <seb128> lool: and don't bother opening a sync request I'll sync it tomorrow morning
[23:55] <lool> Ok
[23:55] <seb128> alright, enough work for me for today, I'm going to bed
[23:55]  * lool waves 'night
[23:55] <seb128> good night
[23:55] <lool> I'm going too I think
[23:55] <seb128> 'night lool
[23:55] <lool> 'night to you too


[04:48]  * genii-around orders another Guinness and settle3s in
[04:49] <genii-around> Darn netbook keyboard
[18:30] <IdleOne> update your websites with the 11.04 count down banner http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown
[19:01] <dscassel_> IdleOne: Ubuntu-ca.org updated automatically. :D
[19:03] <genii-around> Is that narwhal on the right the official logo now? I was looking for one to put onto the CDs we burn at release party ( I have a LightScribe drive and linux driver )
[19:07] <genii-around> dscassel:  Did you talk to the guy who makes the buttons? If you give me a price includes shipping I can send a money order to the Kwartzlab
[19:08] <dscassel> I dont' think there's an "official" narwhal.
[19:08] <dscassel> I have my own that I'm going to use for posters and CDs...
[19:09] <dscassel> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ie0/ :D
[19:10] <dscassel> But yeah, I talked to Ben.  He needed to order parts for buttons, but they should be in now.
[19:10] <dscassel> I need to ping him again.  I'll be in the lab to make some next Tuesday.
[19:10] <dscassel> (along with the IRC meeting)
[19:11] <genii-around> Cool
[19:13] <dscassel> I won't know how much shipping costs until I ship them, unfortunately. :)
[19:18] <genii-around> I usually use https://wwwapps.ups.com/ctc/request to get a rough idea
[19:20] <genii-around> My postal code is m5a 4k5


[00:04] <Spass> tomreyn, do you have "xscreensaver" package installed? if yes try to remove it, but that's just a blind guess
[00:05] <brainwash> probably the case
[00:05] <brainwash> or gnome-screensaver if that thing is still available
[00:11] <brainwash> tomreyn: or https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues/87
[00:37] <tomreyn> right, gnome-screensaver is running
[00:39] <tomreyn> it's not ticked on the session and startup list, though
[08:27] <brainwash> tomreyn: did you figure out why gnome-screensaver is started?
[09:41] <jarnos> Why is the caret needed? https://xubuntu.org/news/introducing-xubuntu-core/
[09:42] <jarnos> I think it chould not match anything as it is the last character.
[09:54] <Spass> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this article was written before "xubuntu-core" package was included in the repos, so that command uses tasksel task
[09:54] <Spass> and I guess the caret isn't needed anymore
[09:56] <Spass> jarnos, https://shantanugoel.com/2010/10/23/apt-get-caret/
[10:46] <brainwash> Spass: it is needed
[10:46] <brainwash> Spass: see bug 1754872
[10:47] <brainwash> mostly read my last comments in that report
[10:49] <brainwash> (the issue applies to xubuntu-core also)
[13:06] <tomreyn> brainwash: i think it was still started from when i had been running gdm. i've since rebooted and it's not running now.
[13:08] <brainwash> tomreyn: so, everything working properly now?
[13:17] <tomreyn> not really. if the screen goes off now, when i reactivate it i ghet a black screen with a frozen mouse pointer.
[13:18] <tomreyn> and there's no way to recover from it other than a reboot. systemctl stop lightdm gets stuck, doesn't return to the shell. and recovering the running session is impossible.
[13:23] <tomreyn> and after reboot i get to see this http://i.imgur.com/divQyJX.png
[13:28] <brainwash> oh boy
[13:29] <brainwash> that is light-locker-settings though
[13:29] <brainwash> the configuration app for light-locker
[13:29] <tomreyn> yes, i had opened it to see whether my settings are still correct
[13:30] <tomreyn> sadly, this 'experience' drives me right back to ubuntu proper. at lest for now,
[13:30] <tomreyn> i'dl ike to help debugging more but i really need a stable desktop
[13:30] <brainwash> I think l-l-s is not even needed in 18.04. the settings can be accessed via the power manager settings.
[13:31] <tomreyn> the unrecoverable black screen is more of a concern, though ;)
[13:31] <brainwash> yep
[16:00] <hk238> hi I have xubuntu on another system the /boot drive gets filled up with initrd files and runs out of space so you cant update
[16:01] <hk238> anyway to fix this?
[16:19] <diogenes_> hk238, 16.04?
[16:38] <hk238> I dont know which version this is
[16:56] <diogenes_> hk238, terminal > lsb_release -a
[16:56] <hk238> 16.04
[16:57] <diogenes_> 1st what you did wrong is that you made a separate /boot partition 2nd try in terminal: sudo apt autoremove
[17:09] <hk238> yeah
[17:09] <hk238> it's pretty  common to make a separate boot partition and xubuntu didn't make any effort saying it wasn't a good idea
[17:10] <diogenes_> it's not xubuntu's thing, it's the common mistake that all the new users come across at some point
[17:10] <diogenes_> i was not an exception
[17:12] <hk238> so far only with xubuntu I've had this problem :D
[17:12] <hk238> but yeah at least it's a lesson learned, maybe I'll make a bigger boot partition next time, or won't make a separate one
[17:13] <hk238> but currently the fix seems to be reinstalling linux :o
[17:13] <diogenes_> yeah, don't make a separate /boot
[17:30] <hk238> or can also make a larger boot
[19:00] <knome> if xubuntu notified users every time they do something that might not be a good idea, it would be full of disclaimer popups...
[19:01] <knome> i guess the installer could mention this, but that would be generic *buntu*, not something the xubuntu developers would engineer
[23:01] <Stek_Turku> hi all
[23:04] <Stek_Turku> on my 64 bit notebook i have installed a 32 bit 16.04 lts (root partition and home partition are different). Can i install xubuntu 18.04 lts 64 bit over the previous 32 bit? can i use the same home partition? what does it happen on my dara and my 32 bit progscalready installed?
[23:31] <Spass> hello Stek_Turku, first of all - backup all your important data before doing anything. I think you'll be completely fine installing 64-bit 18.04 on that "/" partition (and formatting it) and choosing your existing /home partition to be used
[23:33] <Stek_Turku> @Spass: Thanks
[23:33] <Spass> I don't think that there's any architecture related stuff on /home, but maybe someone more knowledgable here will confirm


 @The_LoudSpeaker [So as of now, … C-A-direction switches between desktops … C-S-A-direction sends curr …], Lite. They are good in openbox conf. I can't add them to lxqt config.  … /panel/desktopswitch/desktop_direction doesn't seem to work.
[00:53] <tsimonq2> I would suggest switching the LXQt logo with the Lubuntu logo, but otherwise it looks great!
[00:55] <wxl> actually i have one suggestion: *add* the lubuntu logo above like our isolinux setup
[00:56] <wxl> which, annoyingly, i can't remember where it is
[00:56] <wxl> ughhhhhh
[01:25] <guiverc> wxl ack phab.lubuntu.me/T30#1206
[02:31] <wxl> @tsimonq2: could you please remove lubot from #ubuntu-google?
[02:31] <tsimonq2> wxl: Why's that?
[02:37] <wxl> @tsimonq2: 1925 < lubot:#ubuntu-google> No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id
[02:37] <wxl> alternative solution: fix it XD
 wxl: which is the better way to patch nm-tray to use nm-connection editor?
 there is already thsi patch
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/nm-tray/browse/ubuntu%252Feoan/debian/patches/generalize-terminal-for-edits.patch
 should I edit it, or delete and create a new one?
[02:59] <guiverc> should the lubuntu-grub-theme only work in 19.10; tried on a 19.04 box (x86) with no luck  (unless i stuffed up something..)
[03:00] <wxl> thx @tsimonq2
[03:01] <wxl> @HMollerCl right just pull the patch in, kind of like the packaging example shows. give that a cursory glance and i'm sure you'll remember having done one. i'd be shocked if you didn't
 I know how to one, so I make another one then.
 (instead of editing the existing one) but it's better to put over the upstream than the patched one,
[03:03] <wxl> oh i see now. sorry. wasn't paying attention
[03:03] <wxl> i would presume we drop that patch and replace it with ours
 ok, thanks, will do that
[03:04] <wxl> @tsimonq2: is that correct? if a patch essentially undos (or revises) what another patch did, the first patch should be removed and the new patch put in its place, right?
[03:10] <guiverc> i   LOVE LOVE LOVE   the system setup option on the sonycrapvaio; that's the easiest I've ever got into setup on that thing !  (lubuntu default theme; which maybe just timeout= change)
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: is that correct? if a patch essentially undos (or revises) what …], Well, ideally you'd just change the original patch. Patches are not immutable
 @tsimonq2 [Well, ideally you'd just change the original patch. Patches are not immutable], but I would have to change the name, since the name says "generalize-terminal-for-edits.patch"
 That's fine
 If you rename the file, don't forget to rename it in the series file
 series file?
 aaa, ok, found it, didn't knew it existed
 Yep :)
 @guiverc [<guiverc> should the lubuntu-grub-theme only work in 19.10; tried on a 19.04 box …], I have it running on 19.04 x86 vm. … During sudo grub-update, did it now detect the theme? Something like "found lubuntu-grub-theme at.."
 Also, check if your grub timeout is not 0. You can see grub right?
[03:32] <guiverc> The_LoudSpeaker - just re-ran `update-grub` & it detects them fine in output, would have to reboot to test the newly created..  timeout is 30 so not the issue  rebooting
[03:33] <guiverc> :)    it took this time, exploring & thanks The_LoudSpeaker !
 @guiverc [<guiverc> The_LoudSpeaker - just re-ran `update-grub` & it detects them fine in …], Then Let me know when you reboot.
 @guiverc [<guiverc> :)    it took this time, exploring & thanks The_LoudSpeaker !], How does it look? I don't have a x86 system. Yours has legacy boot? If yes then send screenshot ploxxx.
[03:35] <guiverc> :)  all good The_LoudSpeaker; will continue doing this box and comment on task when complete;  do you want a 18.04 test?  (would it work there?)
[03:35] <wxl> should work in 18.04
[03:35] <wxl> yeah, let's see!
 @guiverc [<guiverc> :)  all good The_LoudSpeaker; will continue doing this box and comment …], Yup! It should work on 18.04. You can test if you want.
[03:36] <guiverc> screenshot of x86 on hardware; with camera?     anyway I'll do on t43/thinkpad x86 18.04  (different hardware!)
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> I would suggest switching the LXQt logo with the Lubuntu logo, but ot …], I thought this was new lubuntu logo. XD
 @guiverc [<guiverc> screenshot of x86 on hardware; with camera?     anyway I'll do on t43/ …], Yeah. With camera. Fine with any hardware untill it has legacy boot.
[03:38] <wxl> omg i ended up down some rabbit hole trying to convert my lp profile entirely to git. let's see if i can find that isolinux theme
 @wxl [<wxl> omg i ended up down some rabbit hole trying to convert my lp profile entir …], CONTINUE DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE
 XD
[03:39] <wxl> well right now i've run into a technical program— the user guide seems to be incorrect
 There are no rabbit holes on the Internet XD
 @kc2bez [There are no rabbit holes on the Internet XD], Those exist only in Alice's world.  He's (she's/ it's) cute.. … XD
[04:00] <wxl> @tsimonq2: can i count on you for that favor?
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: can i count on you for that favor?], Uh sure I guess?
[04:01] <wxl> ok good
[04:15] <wxl> here's what's in isolinux (debian-cd/ubuntu) https://share.riseup.net/#wxEtBrcd7v-wuM5o1ZQIhA
 @wxl [<wxl> here's what's in isolinux (debian-cd/ubuntu) https://share.riseup.net/#wxE …], That's too big in length. Need a square one. The icon I picked was from one the icons of the menu button.
[04:29] <wxl> i know i know
[04:29] <wxl> i'm getting there
[04:30] <wxl> i got to tell you that "krypton" kind of sucked until lobo showed up
 Umm. I don't know what's krypton and lobo. Enlighten me.
[04:34] <wxl> krypton is a sci-fi show surrounding superman's relatives. lobo is dc's deadpool, essentially, except he's not human
 Just so I don't keep bothering Simon via pm, I'll ask this here since I haven't got a good answer from IRC: what's the best way I can track my changes for the lugito repository without affecting the code base? I was trying to create a "lugito" repository on my github which I then initialized with a readme. I then git cloned the Ph
 The only reason I do the Github route is to get the progress more visible for later dev work
[04:36] <wxl> @SamuelBanya i'm not sure how well the whole github/phabricator interaction is going to go. that's a question for them and my guess is neither of them will support it
 @wxl [<wxl> krypton is a sci-fi show surrounding superman's relatives. lobo is dc's de …], Okay. But I don't get what are they doing in this conversation?
[04:36] <wxl> you *might* be able to mirror the phab repo in github
 Hmm that's not a bad idea
[04:37] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker they're distracting me XD
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker they're distracting me XD], 😂😂😂
[04:37] <wxl> @SamuelBanya ta da https://help.github.com/en/articles/about-github-mirrors
[04:37] <wxl> uh
[04:37] <wxl> well
 I just need a test bed since I don't want to screw up Lugito since I'll have to spin up an instance of Phabricator to test any changes to the IRC bot
[04:37] <wxl> a post-receive hook isn't going to cut it
[04:38] <wxl> maybe you should set a cronjob on your computer or some server that git pulls the phab repo, checks if changes have been made and if so, changes the remote to github and pushes
 Gotcha so in that case it would just reflect the changes from phab even though the workflow would be using phabricator with arcanist instead
 But even so, it sounds risky since I don't want to screw up lugito and only want to add to it
[04:41] <wxl> that's just a tool to ensure that you have a copy in github, not anything to do with phab
[04:41] <wxl> changes would be made through the normal arcanist work flow
 Yeah that's what I was thinking right
 But any changes to lugito should be done in an isolated section first no?
 With a testing phabricator instance?
[04:43] <wxl> well the arcanist workflow includes a "merge proposal/pull request" sort of mechanism, the differential revision, so you can't actually affect the code
[04:44] <wxl> and even if you could i'm not sure we have actual deployment automated, though if we don't, i'd generally consider that an oversight
 Gotcha but I'll be able to test locally if I have my own Phabricator instance then
[04:44] <wxl> sure
 Ok that's a little better. I'll just have to figure out how to remirror the existing lugito phab repo in that case but to emphasize my own changes
[04:47] <wxl> oh that's just a simple rebase really
 I've never used hooks though. I'm probably going to have to ask for some hand holding on IRC
[04:47] <wxl> github explains it in a really general way https://help.github.com/en/articles/syncing-a-fork
[04:48] <wxl> don't forget the line before the first step that includes the prereqs
[04:48] <wxl> none of this involves hooks per se
[04:50] <wxl> i don't think we want to litter our repos with a buch of special hooks for really anyone, myself and tsimonq2 included. with that, you won't be able to make changes trigger actions. instead, you check for changes after regularly pulling
 That article tried to be simple  but I think I'm more confused now to be honest
[04:52] <wxl> you always have to make things so complex XD
 Kind of I guess
 I think I should revisit the arcanist guide first. But more importantly though I kind of want to setup the github based repo to just mirror my specific changes though
 I'll have to ask for help in #git to get this done first.
 Apparently the fix is to always pulls the changes from phab then push the changes from my local repo to both the phab version and the Github version simultanously
 To set it up is a bit beyond me but at least I have the steps now
 Actually the better idea is to keep the work in phab but have a cron job on my computer that looks for changes in the phab repo and just rehosts it on GitHub
[05:20] <wxl> THAT'S WHAT I SAID XD
 https://help.github.com/en/articles/duplicating-a-repository
 Is it as simple as making a cron job that pulls changes from the phab based repo and then does a push --mirro to the github one?
 *mirror
[05:28] <wxl> oh i didn't know there was a mirror-push thing but it looks that way
 Interesting I'm trying now for kicks
[05:29] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker will this work? i think this is the best i got right now https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-artwork/browse/ubuntu%252Feoan/src/usr/share/plymouth/themes/lubuntu-logo/lubuntu_logo.png
[05:29] <wxl> i got an svg i can give you if that would be better
 It workssss
 That's cool
 I'll have to make this into a cron job under cron.daily then
 Cron tab rather
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker will this work? i think this is the best i got right now …], Umm. I can put it in. But it won't look nice. The icons should be small square ones. Is there no small square icon of lubuntu that we can use?
[05:34] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker nonono put it above the menu
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker nonono put it above the menu], Ohh! I will try. Then no icon beside the entries and this icon at the top you mean?
[05:36] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker noooo i like what you did. add to it.
[05:36] <wxl> so do you want an svg?
 @wxl [<wxl> so do you want an svg?], Yeah. Send it please. Png would also do, I will convert it.
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker noooo i like what you did. add to it.], Okay. I will.
 I have that cron tab setup to do every 5 mins: */5 * * * * root cd /home/sam/ProgrammingProjects/PythonProjects/lugito && git push --mirror https://github.com/SBanya/lugito.git
 Though is the initial */5 correct?
 To run every 5 mins
[05:38] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker https://share.riseup.net/#OusCiAi4M9vXpjmxOxSPPA
[05:38] <wxl> @SamuelBanya isn't that every second?
[05:39] <wxl> no you're right
 I only ask cause I have a similar cron setting for an rsync command for my personal website but it's not working automatically without my having to run the command manually so I figured I ruined the time value
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker https://share.riseup.net/#OusCiAi4M9vXpjmxOxSPPA], Thanks!
 Wxl: please checkout latest comment on T59.
[06:05] <guiverc> I didn't see lubuntu bird on any, but I may have grabbed .zip (12:03 timestamp) before it was added maybe?
[06:06] <guiverc> sorry I take that back -  the sony has it showing.. will look  (ignore my last sorry)
 @guiverc [<guiverc> I didn't see lubuntu bird on any, but I may have grabbed .zip (12:03 t …], As I said, the entry is named "ubuntu" in the list shown in grub. The hummingbird icon shows up if the entry is "Lubuntu"
[06:08] <wxl> it'd be nice to see it on a netbook
[06:09] <guiverc> :) which is issue, only crap.vaio has it and says Lubuntu; the bios machines don't have it (but say Ubuntu instead of Lubuntu)
[06:10] <wxl> i did a bios install of 19.10 and it worked
 @guiverc [<guiverc> :) which is issue, only crap.vaio has it and says Lubuntu; the bios ma …], My bios vm says lubuntu. Yours might not be showing coz you have multiple *ubuntus installed?
 @wxl [<wxl> i did a bios install of 19.10 and it worked], Yayy!! Have a coffee.
[06:11] <guiverc> it may be ; yes I have multiple *buntu installs on all but vaio
[06:11] <wxl> @THe_LoudSpeaker fyi in case you don't have it http://openbox.org/wiki/Help:Actions
 @guiverc [<guiverc> it may be ; yes I have multiple *buntu installs on all but vaio], That settles it.
 @wxl [<wxl> @THe_LoudSpeaker fyi in case you don't have it http://openbox.org/wiki/Hel …], Thanks! But I guess it's not needed much now that we have it configured as we want (I guess) I will have a through read once tho.
[06:18] <guiverc> correction sorry:  the d755 has only lubuntu, old opensuse leap & crap - single lubuntu 18.04 (and only lubuntu desktop too) -- could it be multiple *nix environments cause Ubuntu to show instead of Lubuntu
[06:18] <wxl> probably more likely
 @wxl [<wxl> probably more likely], +1
[06:19] <wxl> and if opensuse came later perhaps their update-grub is algorithmicly different
 wxl: after commenting out the C-A-Tab part and other changes since last night to ooenbox config at .config/openbox/lxqt-rc.xml … Also some changes to shortcuts using gui.(which has saved the changes at .config/lxqt/globalkeyshortcut.conf)  … I think the requirements are full filled. Should I upload both files to the task so th
 Anyone free for testing this: … https://phab.lubuntu.me/T59#1257 … @guiverc ?
 chris ?
[08:22] <guiverc> i disappear to go out for dinner very soon (aest), I'm reading t59, but am unlikely to be able today sorry
 @guiverc [<guiverc> i disappear to go out for dinner very soon (aest), I'm reading t59, bu …], Fine. not in a hurry. do it when you are free.
[08:24] <guiverc> :) and don't be afraid to remind me  (i'm forgetful!)
 @guiverc [<guiverc> :) and don't be afraid to remind me  (i'm forgetful!)], Sure. Have a nice dinner.  So if I understand correctly, during installing 19.04+ the grub entry label is 'lubuntu'. But upgrading from 18.10 or lower to 19.04 keeps the same earlier entry label i.e. 'ubuntu'. And the new task you are suggesting is to make sure the entry label is updated when upgrading from
 Reference: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T30#1253
 @The_LoudSpeaker The value of GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR is now hardcoded, but should be evaluated every time a update-grub is executed
 @aptghetto [@The_LoudSpeaker The value of GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR is now hardcoded, but should be e …], Gotcha! Partially I guess XD.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Hey! @aptghetto just read your comment on T30. So if I understand correctly, dur …], I guess this issue is no longer the case? … https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kubuntu-settings/commit/?h=kubuntu_eoan_archive&id=47ae7e544305aacb781f568925788045e76d494d
 ^^ @tsimonq2
 Correct
 That's the reasoning
 @tsimonq2 [Correct], So Kubuntu can restore that? Have Kubuntu again?
 No, I'm saying it's still a problem
 That's why we reverted it for 19.04
 Drat. Oh well...
[18:29] <TJ-> Does Lubuntu really want "Lubuntu" in the GRUB boot entry? If so, how much deviation is allowable to achieve it? Would you go as far as a dpkg-divert ?
[19:13] <wxl> @tsimonq2: are you trying to say we dropped doing things the way kubuntu did and instead just used calamares to set the menuentry?
 Ughhh!! I am confused. We could keep 'Lubuntu' in the grub screen and 'Ubuntu' in the nvram entries so that it doesn't cause any problem with secure boot. Both are defined by different commands viz. Update-grub and efibootmgr. AFAIK. I will be doing a full uefi install of lubuntu 19.04 in a vm and note what is written in nvram
[19:18] <TJ-> as a FYI. I've been hacking on the GRUB source for best part of 10 years, and carry my own set of crypto and other patches. Achieving "Lubuntu" in the GRUB menu without upsetting Secure Boot is possible with some slight alterations to the GRUB shell scripts
[19:21] <wxl> TJ-: given that we do have Calamares setting Lubuntu, why haven't we run into problems before?
[19:23] <TJ-> wxl: I'm not entirely clear on what the actual issue is as yet; I'm *guessing* the issue is to do with the Canonical signed GRUB EFI loader hardcoding some values based on the GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR value being "ubuntu" and then causing a failure due to finding "lubuntu"
[19:24] <TJ-> wxl: unfortunately the Kubuntu changelog doesn't have any bug links
[19:25] <wxl> TJ-: i guess wht i'm saying is we most certainly have EFI systems out there, so they should be having problems, no? could it be that we're using a different EFI loader than the Canonical-signed one? one that comes via Calamares? seems so unlikely
[19:26] <TJ-> wxl: it could be what they mean is the EFI install *path*, because that is build from "/EFI/${GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR}/" and presumably would be "/EFI/kubuntu/" whereas the signed shimx64.efi/grubx64.efi files would hard-code "/EFI/ubuntu/"
[19:27] <TJ-> wxl: If there any any confirmed Lubuntu systems using SecureBoot and *not* using their own MOK then those would be the ones to check on this
[19:28] <wxl> i swear we tested this
[19:28] <TJ-> In Lubuntu's case that path would be "/EFI/lubuntu/"  ... I've not looked closely at an EFI install - what path does it use in EFI-SP ?
[19:29] <TJ-> I've never used the Canonical signed boot loader because my GRUB is custom so I use my MOK which avoids any issues like this
[19:31] <wxl> here's Calamares using bootloaderEntryName https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/da46db96a67fbed21caa22db680872a2e2c90b79/src/modules/grubcfg/main.py#L125
[19:32] <TJ-> wxl: Urghh. Something unrelated to EFI stands out in that code you've just pointed to as a major BUG unless I'm misunderstanding it
[19:33] <wxl> you could always ask at #calamares
[19:35] <wxl> TJ-: last release it looks like @DarinMiller tested our EFI/secure boot installs https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/release-team/testing-checklist/
[19:41] <TJ-> ... looking at the comment by guiverc, the cause is likely that there are multiple OSes on the system, and the entries in /boot/grub/grub.cfg will be those that were created by the last OS install to run "update-brub" - if that was Ubuntu not Lubuntu then "Ubuntu" will be in the boot menu
[19:43] <wxl> but afaik our update-grub/grub-mkconfig doesn't overwrite GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR
[19:43] <wxl> maybe i'm wrong
[19:47] <wxl> you know what annoys me? if you browse the repo tree in phab there's no way to switch branches on that file
[19:47] <TJ-> wxl: the problem I'm describing is caused by multiple OS installs, each with its own GRUB. The last one run will replace any existing menu.
[19:49] <wxl> TJ-: i would personally consider that an edge case where one should assume the users has some sort of sense of what they're doing. calamares tends to have a similar attitude about manual partitioning. they don't bend themselves backward to make it foolproof.
[19:51] <TJ-> wxl: Not sure if this is the correct place, but "efiBootloaderId: "ubuntu""  https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCALASETTINGSec8d1863c8ae49a73cff15547aa773e02d953dfa
[19:52] <wxl> ah ha
[19:52] <TJ-> wxl: right, and I think what The_LoudSpeaker was referring to was the edge-case where guiverc has a multi-OS install
[19:53] <wxl> yeah, ok, so i'm not going to sweat this then
[19:53] <wxl> but if you have any further comments/concerns about the GRUB theme @The_LoudSpeaker created , as it relates to BIOS or EFI, i'd love to hear it
[19:56] <TJ-> wxl: guivec's last comment says it's a single OS install but with multiple desktops, so in that situation it'd depend on which *buntu flavour was installed first
 @TJ- [<TJ-> wxl: right, and I think what The_LoudSpeaker was referring to was the edge …], Wasn't that the first thing I said?? Multiple linux installations?? …  Lite. I will just consider that installs from 19.04+ would have 'Lubuntu' on grub screen and the theme will show an humming
 @TJ- [<TJ-> wxl: guivec's last comment says it's a single OS install but with multiple …], I suppose it was ubuntu in that case.
[19:57] <TJ-> @The_LoudSpeaker it looks likely
[19:57] <wxl> i don't think we need to worry about 18.04
[19:57] <TJ-> wxl: my one concern with all artwork, with my Blind Society hat on, is *contrast* - there's no sufficient contrast in the colour schemes for people with visual impairmente
 @wxl [<wxl> i don't think we need to worry about 18.04], Thankfully!
[19:58] <wxl> and we *know* that **everything** about the 18.04 → >18.04 transition is weird, so i'm not worried about that, either
[19:59] <wxl> TJ-: patches welcome XD but a little mockup might be a good start
[19:59] <TJ-> my other concern specicially is ending up with scroll-bars when they're not necessary; that's very anti-user
 @TJ- [<TJ-> wxl: my one concern with all artwork, with my Blind Society hat on, is *co …], Nice thought. You are a good man.
 @TJ- [<TJ-> my other concern specicially is ending up with scroll-bars when they're no …], It won't be there when it's not necessary.
[20:00] <TJ-> @The_LoudSpeaker there are lots of colour charts to help designers to accomodate visually impaired people by choosing good contrasts
[20:01] <TJ-> @The_LoudSpeaker OK, so this is a contrived display not a reality? https://phab.lubuntu.me/T30#1253
[20:02] <TJ-> My focus is always on accessiblilty and substance over style
 @TJ- [<TJ-> @The_LoudSpeaker OK, so this is a contrived display not a reality? https:/ …], This one was where he had lubuntu and opensuse. It's a mbr system. I don't know how grub entries are named in mbr?
 @TJ- [<TJ-> @The_LoudSpeaker there are lots of colour charts to help designers to acco …], I am not much of a person who designs so don't know much. I just used the same background colour as the splash screen.
[20:05] <wxl> ^ so that might be a reason for a more major overhaul to ALL of the artwork
[20:07] <TJ-> wxl: Yes that sounds likely - it doesn't matter for 100% blind since they use text-to-speech and/or braille, but for visually impaired it is very important
[20:08] <TJ-> We have some service users who use a smartphone... they have to magnify the display so there are only about 4 characters shown in landscape mode and they have to be about 15cm from the screen to make them out
[20:09] <TJ-> That may give you an idea of the kind of allowance we should make for them, when you can't mess with the font size so much colour contrast is the next best thing, and yellow background tends to be the preferred, OR something with high contrast and low glare
[20:11] <wxl> wow
[20:14]  * TJ- best take Huskies around the farm now its cool, before dusk!
[20:14] <wxl> have fun :)
[20:14] <wxl> thanks as always for the help
[20:16] <wxl> @acheronuk how's falkon doing these days? i'd like to re-evaluate the idea of offering it as our default browser
[20:21] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker re: shortcuts, i immediately see something funky. are you sure you included the right files?
 @wxl [<wxl> @acheronuk how's falkon doing these days? i'd like to re-evaluate the idea …], It seems like we get many build failures for 18.04 on the devel list. Are we subscribed to more recent releases?
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker re: shortcuts, i immediately see something funky. are you …], Can you define funky? Coz I think I know what your are talking about. Elaborate ploxx.
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: are you trying to say we dropped doing things the way kubuntu d …], Basically.
[21:45] <wxl> @kc2bez i think we're subscribed to all of them
[21:45] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker working on that but the GoToDesktop keys are still in openbox so it doesn't fulfill all the criteria
 @wxl [<wxl> @kc2bez i think we're subscribed to all of them], Ok. I can give it go for a while to see how it works for me. I think the issues with 18.04 are related to the Qt version over there. I haven't really looked at it recently though.
[21:49] <wxl> yeah i don't worry about it in 18.04
 I wasn't either, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something more recent.
[21:58] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker this might be a more concise description https://share.riseup.net/#n2acK0a04PUaLepdAh64Ig
[22:03] <TJ-> wxl: thinking about our earlier discussion about GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR. Just got to thinking about how we might determine what the *original* install was, and I'm thinking /etc/os-release would be the place to look


[10:27] <Tetsuo55> can someone help me with this bug?
[10:27] <Tetsuo55> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/722373
[10:27] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 722373 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Dell Latitude E6400, All monitors black when switching from external to internal (affects: 1) (heat: 489)" [Undecided,New]
[14:21] <penguin42> has anyone got any idea on bug 729850
[14:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 729850 in software-center (Ubuntu) "error (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729850
[14:22] <penguin42> I asked him for the full error message he got, but what he's said appears to just be the apport text in the bug, so I'm confused
[14:24] <Ampelbein> penguin42: I would convert to a question, opera isn't in the official archive.
[14:25] <penguin42> Ampelbein: But the bug doesn't seem clear to me at all; I don't get whether he is saying that there was an error from software-center or from opera
[14:32] <Ampelbein> penguin42: you asked him for the complete message, he provided no more useful information. and in his original report he says "reason is opera". so invalid or convert to question.
[14:37]  * penguin42 tries a bunch of more explicit questions to give him one last chance
[16:19] <tkluck> Hi there
[16:20] <penguin42> Hi
[16:20] <tkluck> I think #728746 is ready for triage. Importance should probably be 'high' since it affects wireless hardware.
[16:21] <tkluck> (is this the right place / way to report these kind of things?)
[16:22] <Ampelbein> yes it is. but please use 'bug XXXX' if you want to refer to bugs, because theres a bot here that provides some more information that way: bug 728746
[16:22] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 728746 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu) "broadcom 80211 firmware needs symlinks (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728746
[16:25] <tkluck> i see, that is very useful indeed. will do so next time.
[19:23] <abhinav-> bugs of tomcat6-user should be reported under tomcat6 ?
[19:39] <penguin42> abhinav-: Yes, tomcat6-user is built from the tomcat6 source package
[19:40] <abhinav-> penguin42: thanks. submitting it :)
[19:41] <penguin42> abhinav-: If you do apt-cache show tomcat6-user it shows the source
[19:42] <abhinav-> oh cool. I didn't know that. that would be handy.
[19:44] <Ampelbein> !info tomcat6-user
[19:44] <ubot4`> Ampelbein: tomcat6-user (source: tomcat6): Servlet and JSP engine -- tools to create user instances. In component main, is optional. Version 6.0.28-2ubuntu1.1 (maverick), package size 25 kB, installed size 156 kB


[21:05] <sadmac2> Keybuk: could you push a libnih that has your latest version of the cursored foreach and un-reverts the timeout change?


[00:12] <Canaan1> hi guys. i was hoping to find someone who speaks irish who might be able to translate two sentances from a video clip for me?
[00:13] <zmoylan-hp> trying to think of irc channel with irish speakers in it.  maybe #linux on ilug irc
[00:14] <zmoylan-hp> irc.linux.ie
[00:14] <Canaan1> ok thank you very much zmoylan-hp. i will try there
[00:21] <zmoylan-hp> not many folk around after midnight
[00:22] <Canaan1> oooh, didnt think UK was that far ahead of Canada
[00:24] <zmoylan-hp> ireland is not in uk, what's the video anyway?
[00:24] <Canaan1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOpKNCBGxI&feature=youtu.be
[00:24] <Canaan1> oh, the uk/england/britain/etc thing always confuses me :P
[00:25] <Canaan1> and also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CompT2S1AMs&feature=youtu.be
[00:25] <zmoylan-hp> no generic greetings or phrases to my ear
[00:26] <Canaan1> nah, Its a single sentance not really a conversation
[00:28] <Canaan1> thanks for looking anyway zmoylan-hp
[00:28] <zmoylan-hp> if you ask in #linux in around 12 hours you might get a response.  about 10% of irish speak irish
[00:29] <Canaan1> wow, i didnt know that
[00:29] <Canaan1> i will come back. thanks again
[00:29] <Canaan1> most people don't want to even click a youtube link for some reason
[00:45] <andru183_> did you get it Canaan1 ??
[00:48] <Canaan1> ah nope
[00:48] <Canaan1> not yet
[09:47] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:48] <czajkowski> anyone looking for a new role - dublin based one just came up http://www.mongodb.com/careers/positions/technical-services-manager-emea
[09:50]  * slashbel only noticed that the mongodb.ie is right around the corner from tog
[09:50] <czajkowski> yeah we look onto it
[09:50] <czajkowski> :D


[06:54] <Mirv> duflu: btw the discussion with you did inspire me to a working solution. I installed Ubuntu from USB stick to another USB stick on my another computer, and then booted that up on the Chromebook, therefore bypassing gfxboot
[06:55] <Mirv> since gfxboot is only used on live usb for the legacy boot
[06:56] <duflu> Mirv: Oh good trick
[06:57] <duflu> I might try that
[07:05] <duflu> anpok_: vscroll events are now magnitude 1.0 for mouse wheels. Is that new?
[07:05] <duflu> Weren't they 1/15 before?
[07:35] <duflu> greyback_: Figured out why touchpads in Unity8 don't feel very accurate. We convert the floating point input to integers :P
[07:35] <greyback_> duflu: we do? Where?
[07:36] <duflu> greyback_: handleWheel* ... QPoint
[07:36] <duflu> rather than QPointF
[07:38] <duflu> Touchpad two-finger scrolling is normalized... a float usually less than 1.0
[07:38] <duflu> 1.0 just means "the same amount as a mouse wheel tick"
[07:39] <greyback_> duflu: ok, nice find. Patch on the way?
[07:40] <duflu> greyback_: Sorry, I need to get more Xmir done before EOW
[07:40] <greyback_> duflu: bug logged?
[07:40] <duflu> (just added smooth scrolling there too)
[07:40] <duflu> greyback_: Yep, top of the Qtmir list
[08:04] <duflu>  anpok_: vscroll events are now magnitude 1.0 for mouse wheels. Is that new?
[08:04] <duflu> I'm not complaining, but I thought it was 1/15th before
[11:52] <zone42314> hi
[11:52] <zone42314> how do you run gedit on mir from cli?
[11:56] <alan_g> zone42314: GDK_BACKEND=mir gedit
[11:57] <zone42314> Failed to connect to Mir: Failed to send message to server: Success
[11:57] <zone42314> (gedit:11651): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
[11:57] <zone42314> doesn't work
[11:57] <alan_g> Which Mir server are you running? What arguments?
[11:57] <zone42314> i'm using the terminal app on unity8
[11:57] <zone42314> not on server
[11:58] <zone42314> i need to launch gedit from terminal app
[11:58] <zone42314> but using mir gdk mir or whatever is called
[11:59] <alan_g> U8 needs something like GDK_BACKEND=mir gedit -- --desktop-file <some desktop file>
[11:59] <alan_g> In this case Unity8 is your Mir server
[12:00] <zone42314> alan_g: some programs just throw and error if you use -- args
[12:00] <zone42314> how do you launch them?
[12:00] <zone42314> if you can't use --
[12:00] <alan_g> zone42314: that's not my doing
[12:01] <zone42314> where to ask?
[12:01] <zone42314> unity channel?
[12:01] <alan_g> you may need MIR_SOCKET=/tmp/mir_socket too
[12:01] <kdub> #ubuntu-touch or #ubuntu-unity might be good places
[12:01] <zone42314> ok thanks
[12:01] <kdub> although most the people there hang out here and vice versa
[12:02] <alan_g> But that ought to be set if the terminal's running under U8
[12:03] <zone42314> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=mir supertux2 -- --desktop_file_hint=unity8.deskop
[12:03] <zone42314> Error: Unknown option '--''. Use --help to see a list of options
[12:03] <zone42314> :(
[12:03] <zone42314> is there a way to workarround this error?
[12:04] <alan_g> zone42314: no point (yet) SDL_VIDEODRIVER=mir supertux2 doesn't work on any mir servers
[12:05] <zone42314> what does ubuntu-app-launch do?
[12:06] <zone42314> looks like you can launch supertux2 with 'ubuntu-app-launch supertux2'
[12:06] <zone42314> and i don't see using Xmir
[12:06] <alan_g> That probably starts an Xmir server
[12:06] <zone42314> but then i should see the Xmir in top
[12:06] <zone42314> right?
[12:06] <alan_g> True
[12:06] <zone42314> but i don't
[12:07] <alan_g> What system you running? Xenial?
[12:07] <zone42314> 16.10
[12:07] <alan_g> Ah. That may have a more recent SDL than I've got
[12:08] <zone42314> ibsdl2-2.0-0/yakkety,now 2.0.4+dfsg2-1ubuntu1 amd64 [installed,automatic]
[12:08] <zone42314> probably not
[12:09] <alan_g> Is ubuntu-app-launch a script?
[12:09] <zone42314> hey, i'm here for help :D
[12:09] <zone42314> don't now :(
[12:09] <zone42314> i can't c/p from Xmir pff
[12:09] <zone42314> it's on lp
[12:10] <alan_g> Sorry, wife calling "lunch"
[12:10] <zone42314> bon apetite
[12:10] <zone42314> appetit
[12:49] <bregma> zone42314, supertux2 does not run natively on Mir, it definitely requires XMir
[12:51] <zone42314> bregma: but if it runs with Xmir, you should see the Xmir process in top, right?
[12:51] <bregma> XMir does not use a lot of CPU
[12:51] <bregma> do a ps-ef | grep -i xmir
[12:52] <bregma> because supertux2 uses libSDL2, it should theoretically run OK natively on MIr, but it turns out is uses some X11 calls outside of libSDL, so it will fail
[12:53] <zone42314> bregma: i don't have ps-ef, do i need to install ps-watch?
[12:53] <bregma> the root of that problem is that it uses the "glew" OpenGL extension wrangler library, which has a hardcoded assumption that Linux == X11
[12:54] <bregma> zone42314, there should be a space between the 'ps' and the '-ef'
[12:55] <bregma> I am running supertux2 on a test machine right now....
[12:55] <bregma> $ ps -ef | grep -i xmir
[12:55] <bregma> stephenw 13490 13486  4 08:54 ?        00:00:00 Xmir -rootless -title @ -displayfd 3 -mir yakkety_supertux2_0.0
[12:58] <zone42314> 12385 11641  0 15:56 pts/19   00:00:00 grep --color=auto -i xmir
[12:58] <zone42314> i only see this
[12:59] <zone42314> bregma: how did you launched sueprtux2?
[13:00] <bregma> zone42314, I have it in a libertine container, I just click on the icon in Unity 8
[13:00] <zone42314> bregma: but libertine uses Xmir
[13:00] <zone42314> no?
[13:00] <bregma> yes
[13:00] <zone42314> no
[13:00] <bregma> like I said, it won't run natively on Mir
[13:01] <bregma> it == supertux2
[13:01] <zone42314> but it runs on my pc
[13:01] <zone42314> sudo apt install supertux2
[13:01] <zone42314> ubuntu-app-launch supertux2
[13:02] <bregma> zone42314, is that from Unity 8?  Are you running on a Mir server at all?
[13:02] <zone42314> it's from unity8
[13:02] <zone42314> i'm running the game from the terminal app with ubuntu-app-launch
[13:02] <bregma> and it runs?
[13:02] <zone42314> because -- --deskop_file_hint=unity8 gives an error
[13:02]  * bregma has been wrong before
[13:03] <zone42314> because suerptux2 doesn't like the -- arg
[13:03] <bregma> why do you have a -- in there at all?
[13:04] <zone42314> bregma: how do you launch apps in unity8-desktop from terminal app
[13:04] <zone42314> you need to use -- --desktop_file_hint (i think?, right?)
[13:04] <bregma> you need to pass the appropriate .desktop file to ubuntu-app-launch
[13:04] <zone42314> how do you run gedit or nautilus for ex?
[13:04] <bregma> zone42314, I use libertine for X11-based programs
[13:06] <alan_g> greyback: have updated. Happy now? https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/miral/monitor-outputs/+merge/300740
[13:06] <bregma> zone42314, if you have a native Mir application, and its .desktop file is set up properly, you should just have to pass the .desktop file name to ubuntu-app-launch (no --desktop-file-hint or -- or anything)
[13:06]  * bregma install supertux outside of a container to play with it
[13:07] <zone42314> bregma: thanks :D
[13:07] <zone42314> i think that's how i launch supertux :P
[13:09] <greyback> alan_g: approved
[13:13] <zone42314> bregma: does it work? :D
[13:16] <alan_g> I doubt supertux2 works without Xmir, it fails for both me and duflu (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1605074/comments/13)
[13:19] <bregma> zone42314, I have a slow internet connection, so it takes a while.....
[13:20] <bregma> zone42314, I modified the .desktop file by adding the magic X-Ubuntu-Touch=true stanza, and launched using 'ubunti-app-launch supertux2' but the app crahes on startup
[13:21] <bregma> haven't figured out why yet (need a backtrace) but my guess is the libglew problem I mentioned earlier
[13:21] <bregma> same thing if launched from the Unity 8 Dash
[13:21] <alan_g> bregma: duflu agrees (see above comment)
[13:22] <alan_g> It doesn't work natively with the miral shell either
[13:24] <zone42314> bregma: oh. i'm super confused right now because it works fine for me
[13:24] <bregma> zone42314, well, until I've analyzed my crash I won't commit to why it doesn;t work for me
[13:24] <alan_g> bregma: An SDL game that works (well starts up) natively is 7kaa
[13:25] <bregma> alan_g, 7kaa is known to start on the demo Mir server, not necessarily on Unity 8
[13:26] <alan_g> Exactly. But supertux doesn't work at all with the Mir backend
[13:26] <alan_g> U8 is whole additional set of opportunities
[13:26] <bregma> indeed
[13:28]  * bregma takes the dog for a walk while he waits for stack traces to run with his pokey network connection
[13:28] <alan_g> Lucky dog
[13:33] <alan_g> zone42314: "it works fine" with X-Ubuntu-Touch=true in the desktop file?
[13:35] <zone42314> alan_g: i don't see x-ubuntu-touch in any of the 2 supertux2 desktop files
[13:36] <zone42314> /usr/share/app-install/desktop/supertux:supertux2.desktop
[13:36] <zone42314> /usr/share/applications/supertux2.desktop
[13:38] <alan_g> Then I would guess that ubuntu-app-launch defaults to using an Xmir server. And we know that works (for a suitable value of "works").
[13:38] <zone42314> alan_g: i am playing supertux2
[13:39] <zone42314> and killing the Xmir at the same time
[13:39] <zone42314> nothing happens
[13:39] <zone42314> there is no Xmir running
[13:43] <greyback> thanks XMir for stealing all my input. And thanks kernel for not giving me a usable VT!
[13:45] <alan_g> greyback: Bad luck! But why would XMir steal all your input?
[13:47] <greyback> alan_g: am genuinely unsure. I Alt+dragged the XMir window, and from then on compiz refused to let focus switch away from xmir. As if mouse clicks disappeared somewhere
[13:47] <alan_g> Xmir or mir-on-x?
[13:47] <greyback> oh
[13:47] <greyback> mir on x
[13:47] <greyback> yes, my bad
[13:48] <greyback> mirX
[13:49] <alan_g> That sounds like camako's grabs going wrong. It's been working for me though.
[13:50] <greyback> it was a once-off, usually it's ok
[13:50]  * camako reads the backlog
[13:50]  * alan_g remembers "once-off" that waited until after release before becoming "always"
[13:53] <camako> hmmm, greyback have you filed a bug?
[13:53] <greyback> camako: if I can reliably reproduce it again, I will
[13:55] <greyback> am not managing it now that I try
[13:56] <camako> greyback, did you alt+drag an app running inside mir-on-x or mir-on-x window itself?
[13:57] <camako> You shouldn't be able to alt+drag mir-on-x
[13:58] <zone42314> alan_g: Xmir
[13:58] <zone42314> bash: /usr/bin/Xmir: No such file or directory
[13:58] <zone42314> alan_g: and i can still play supertux2
[13:58] <greyback> camako: alt+drag working for my qtmir-based mir-on-x! It moves the window around my X desktop
[13:59] <zone42314> bregma: i've removed Xmir and supertux still starts
[14:00] <camako> greyback, beats me
[14:00] <greyback> *shrug*
[14:02] <alan_g> zone42314: ack
[14:03] <zone42314> alan_g: i have to take a brake, see ya guys and thanks for help
[14:10] <alan_g> greyback: great news! Can we ship it? ;)
[14:13] <greyback> :)
[14:14]  * alan_g has CLion "run"ning on Xmir on MirAL shell
[14:16] <alan_g> does it have to be so laggy?
[14:56] <bregma> yep, traceback showsupertux crashing in XQueryExtension, which is completely consistent with the glew issue
[14:57] <bregma> zone42314 must be running an X server somewhere else if he's able to launch it and run it successfully
[14:58] <alan_g> Agreed
[15:38] <alan_g> greyback: I've just thought that CanonicalWindowManagerPolicy has two roles that ought to be separated. 1. the default WM wiring (which you want) and 2. interpreting events (which you don't). Do you agree? Can you suggest good names?
[15:39] <greyback> alan_g: I do agree
[15:39] <greyback> names... lemme think
[15:40] <greyback> wow, was it something I said? :)
[15:40] <alan_g> I'm inclined to leave CanonicalWindowManagerPolicy with 1 and move the event handling into miral-shell
[15:40] <alan_g> Were they all in germany?
[15:40] <greyback> mpt isn't
[15:40] <anpok_> hm
[15:41] <greyback> err actually, he might be
[15:41] <greyback> alan_g: +1 on your suggestion