[00:29] <nhaines> A meeting is coming!
[01:57] <nhaines> Meeting coming up in 3 minutes.  :)
[02:00] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:00] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 02:00:31 2018 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:00] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:00] <nhaines> Welcome to the March 25th meeting for Ubuntu California!
[02:00] <nhaines> Tonight's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18March25
[02:00] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18March25 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:01] <nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
[02:01] <nhaines> I don't know of anything coming up in California in the next month.
[02:02] <nhaines> UbuCon Europe in Xixón, Spain is at the end of April, and many of those talks will be recorded.  I'll be speaking there.
[02:03] <nhaines> Ubuntu 18.04 will be released on April 26th, two days before UbuCon.
[02:03] <nhaines> So it is time to start thinking about release parties.
[02:03] <nhaines> #topic Announcements
[02:03] <nhaines> Does anyone have any announcements for the LoCo?
[02:05] <nhaines> Okay, moving on to our agenda items tonight.
[02:06] <nhaines> #topic UbuCon at SCALE and SCALE 16X postmortem
[02:07] <nhaines> We had a very successful UbuCon this year, and that was almost entirely thanks to our speakers, who took the time to prepare interesting and insightful topics to present.  Big thanks to pleia2 and nhandler who are in the channel for their hard work.
[02:08] <nhaines> Our most popular talks had about 128 audience members, which is significant considering how late everything finally came together.
[02:09] <nhaines> The booth was also a success, and this is thanks to volunteers like George Mulak, lynorian, and Ian Santopietro.
[02:10] <nhaines> Richard and I had some significant hurdles this year.  Since our contact left Canonical last year, communication has been slow.
[02:11] <nhaines> Despite a very strong initial burst of activity, Canonical does not appear to have a dedicated community team anymore, and my contacts were almost certainly a little overworked.
[02:12] <nhaines> This led to massive delays in getting information about logistics for UbuCon or the expo booth.
[02:13] <nhaines> In the end, Canonical did not sponsor UbuCon or SCALE this year, and funds from the community fund were only made available after I emailed Mark Shuttleworth 8 days before the event.
[02:14] <nhaines> In turn, SCALE delayed confirming how much space we would have, which delayed our call for papers and we were told several times that none of our speakers had submitted talks when it later turned out that all but one had submitted (and we knew about that one).
[02:17] <nhaines> Richard and I had discussed sponsorship issues last year, but we relied on assurances that commitments were immediately forthcoming this year, which resulted in us not adapting to the situation in time.
[02:18] <nhaines> We plan to assume that Canonical will not be sponsoring or assisting for UbuCon at SCALE 17x and carrying out our contingency plans from the beginning, which we think will allow us to be prepared before or at the same time SCALE makes their announcements.
[02:19] <nhaines> The booth went very well despite half the space from last year, and we had a lot of interested visitors.
[02:20] <nhaines> Most were interested in the Unity to GNOME Shell transition, and everyone seemed pleased or relieved that there were some major similarities in Ubuntu's default GNOME session.
[02:20] <nhaines> I also did an interview with the Ask Noah Show where I talked a little about that transition.  http://podcast.asknoahshow.com/53
[02:20] <darthrobot> Title: [Ask Noah Show Episode 53: Live from SCaLE 16x]
[02:21] <nhaines> I suspect that next year we'll be able to give a longer lead time for booth volunteers, as we have in the past.  So I'm looking forward to a smoother booth schedule next year.
[02:22] <nhaines> SCALE attendance appeared to be down, but they reported that their numbers were higher than last year, so I suspect the difference was more closely related to the busy times.
[02:23] <nhaines> Once again I'd like to thank Richard Gaskin for helping to organize the UbuCon conference and all of our speakers and booth volunteers for making a very successful event.  :)
[02:23] <nhaines> #topic Discuss changing time of bi-weekly IRC meetings
[02:24] <nhaines> There was a proposal on the mailing list about changing the meeting time.
[02:25] <nhaines> If a different meeting time will increase attendance and participation, I'd be happy to move the meetings.  But I'd like to see more discussion about it on the mailing list first.
[02:25] <nhaines> Since no one is present, I'll immediately move the topic back to the list.
[02:25] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[02:25] <nhaines> Is there anything else before we wrap the meeting up?
[02:26] <lynorian> oops now I show up
[02:26] <nhaines> lynorian: good to see you.  :)
[02:30] <nhaines> Okay, our next meeting is scheduled for April 8th.  Hope to see everyone there!
[02:30] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:30] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 02:30:40 2018 UTC.
[02:30] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2018/ubuntu-us-ca.2018-03-26-02.00.moin.txt


[00:36] <jono> pleia2, apologies for the delay on the fridge report of the leadership meeting - I was at an event this week
[00:36] <jono> writing it up now
[01:33] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: so I'll be giving a talk tomorrow, and I may have some questions about the phablet world, what should I say?
[01:44] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: depends on the question doesn't it :)
[01:44] <JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: I'm thinking about general stuff, what's the current state of the project
[01:45] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: now that the demos (CES & MWC) are over,the focus is on the roadmap for convergence
[01:45] <mhall119> finishing off the phone and tablet experience, but also carrying the technology from them into the Desktop and TV
[01:46] <JoseeAntonioR> great, thanks! :)
[01:46] <mhall119> the goal is to have all 4 by 14.04
[01:47] <mhall119> all using the same codebase, for Ubuntu and Unity
[01:49] <JoseeAntonioR> and what should I say about the Twitter thingy that's been mentioned?
[01:57] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: just say that Twitter preferred that we use their mobile website, and not ship a Twitter-branded native application.  Twitter clients will still be allowed, and Gwibber will have a phone/tablet version and continue to support Twitter
[01:57] <JoseeAntonioR> great, thanks!
[01:58] <mhall119> np
[01:58] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: also point out that Ubuntu's webapp integration gives Twitter's mobile website all the same shell integration that a native client would get
[01:59] <mhall119> including Messaging Menu, Dash apps search, and Launcher message counts
[01:59] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, I was thinking on that too
[02:00] <mhall119> given that Twitter has put so much engineering into making their mobile website as nice as it is, combined with the fact that we allow website such seamless integration, it's really not a surprising move
[02:44] <jono> can we get a few upvotes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1au7mz/first_community_leadership_meeting_summary/
[02:45] <jono> ok, dinner
[02:46] <jono> night all!
[03:38] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: would you mind a PM?
[03:52] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: go for it
[11:26] <popey> Morning
[12:39] <vibhav> o/ popey
[13:59] <smartboyhw> JoseeAntonioR, you running for the Ubuntu membership board?
[14:19] <JoseeAntonioR> whoops, he just left


[00:01] <kiko> MvG, I think I retried and it failed then
[00:01] <kiko> let me see
[00:02] <kiko> MvG, are the source details still correct?
[00:02] <kiko> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/lirc/main
[00:03] <kiko> let's see how that goes
[00:03] <kiko-afk> afk for a bit
[02:31] <nxvl> hi
[02:31] <nxvl> there are some statstics from ppa
[02:31] <nxvl> for example how many users download some packages from the server
[04:38] <alecw1> I have a comment at https://bugs.launchpad.net/phpns/+bug/232319/comments/1 that I made via email, but I forgot to remove my signature, so my email is fully visible. Is there a way that the comment can be edited/removed?
[04:57] <jamesh> alecw1: your email address is hidden for people not logged in
[04:58] <jamesh> so should not show up to email scrapers
[04:58] <alecw1> jamesh: okay, that's perfect. thanks
[05:06] <gnomefreak> does anyone know how to get rid of Uncaught bounce notification? i removed his subscription from the mailing list but its still happening?
[05:07] <gnomefreak> were talking over 70 a day flooding my inbox like crazy
[05:08] <gnomefreak> and let me know if you need info from them i dont want to get rid of them if you need it.
[07:20] <Bodsda> hi, when trying to register my gpg key i received an email saying i needed to decrypt it, i use thunderbird so it said to use an add-on called EnigMail, but when i try this it says its not compatible with my thunderbir build, what should i do?
[07:32] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: what version of ubuntu and what tb version and was it from official repos?
[07:32] <leoquant> hi Bosda but you haven´t installed it yet?
[07:32] <Bodsda> sorry no it was from mozilla -- i just found out i can get it from repo's and everything is now running smoothly -- thanks anyway
[07:32]  * gnomefreak betting hes not using our versions
[07:33] <gnomefreak> :)
[07:33] <leoquant> indeed enigmail is in the off repos. als gnomefreak said
[07:33] <Bodsda> the latest mozilla version is not compatible at least not with the 64bit linux distrobution of thunderbird
[07:33] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: its better to ask those types of questions in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-mozillateam
[07:33] <gnomefreak> define latest?
[07:34] <Bodsda> did do with no answer and the email i recieved poitning meto the mozilla plug in was from launchpad so i asked here
[07:34] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/71
[07:34] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: trunk? nightly?
[07:34] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: i meant thunderbird
[07:34] <Bodsda> i have the latest version according to apt
[07:35] <leoquant> and its ok now?
[07:35] <Bodsda> yeah cheers
[07:35] <leoquant> becoming an ubutero?
[07:35] <gnomefreak> ah i see the issue
[07:35] <gnomefreak> they released a point release
[07:35] <Bodsda> yep ;~)
[07:35] <leoquant> is an launchpad matter
[07:35] <gnomefreak> and we havent built that one yet but will once i get sleep
[07:36] <leoquant> welcome!
[07:36] <gnomefreak> its 2:36 am
[07:36] <leoquant> lol :)
[07:36] <Bodsda> the email that launchpad sends needs to be edited to tell people not to installmozilla enigmail
[07:36] <Bodsda> ;~)
[07:36]  * gnomefreak all kinds of pissed off at LP atm
[07:36] <gnomefreak> more so the guy sending email
[07:36] <Bodsda> repo's are always best ;_)
[07:36] <Bodsda> safest*
[07:37] <leoquant> indded Bosda
[07:37] <leoquant> eed
[07:43] <gnomefreak> leoquant: are you an LP dev, admin, user?
[07:43]  * gnomefreak thinks i need an admin but not sure
[07:47] <Bodsda> hey, having a slight problem signing the coc,.,. i downloaded the coc and moved to /home/bod/.coc/UbuntuCodeofConduct-1.0.1.txt theni enter the command     gpg --clearsign /home/bod/.coc/UbuntuCodeofConduct-1.0.1.txt      then i double click on the *.asc file which opens a "choose decrypted filename" save thing but whatever name i enter it says *.asc has no data
[07:52] <Bodsda> what am i doing wrong?
[07:52] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: /me doesnt remember haveing to double click .asc
[07:52] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, instructions -- step 3, 4 -- https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1/+sign
[07:54] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: try moving it to your home dir outside of any other dir, did you try right clicking the file and choosing open?
[07:55] <Bodsda> theres an "open with decrypt file" option instead of open but that and moving to new dir do the same thing,.,.it then creates the coc file again
[07:56] <gnomefreak> ok let me test this real fast
[07:56] <Bodsda> cheers
[07:58] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: ok it opens in gedit for me
[07:59] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: try in the dir that the .asc is run gedit Ubuntu........
[07:59] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: is that the part you are stuck on?
[07:59] <Bodsda> oh, it opens from terminal but its empty
[08:00] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: it shoudlnt be
[08:00] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: please remove the .asc and resign it
[08:00] <Bodsda> thats what i thought
[08:00] <Bodsda> ok
[08:00] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: also make sure the other file has the CoC in it
[08:01] <gnomefreak> just incase its a bad download
[08:01] <Bodsda> yes it does have the coc in the other file and the .asc is still empty
[08:01] <Bodsda> ive redownloaded the coc 3 times
[08:02] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: run gpg --list-keys   and make sure the key has same address as your LP page
[08:03] <Calvin> hello?
[08:03] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, im not sure what im looking for so could you take a look please -- http://pastebin.com/fc1abd4a
[08:03] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: yep
[08:03] <Bodsda> cheers
[08:04] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: can you give me your LP home page please
[08:04] <Bodsda> sure, 1 sec
[08:04] <gnomefreak> thanks
[08:04] <Bodsda> do you mean this? -- https://launchpad.net/~bodssocks
[08:05] <gnomefreak> yep that would be it
[08:05] <gnomefreak> i think ;)
[08:05] <Bodsda> ~)
[08:05] <Bodsda> :~)
[08:06] <gnomefreak> hmmmm
[08:06] <Calvin> i wanted to upload some of my projects on Launchpad because i didn't like this line in the EULA of SourceForge: "By uploading code to SourceForge.net, you grant SourceForge a perpetual proprietary license." Can anyone tell me if Launchpad just hosts my material and doesn't actually own a copyright to it? I've read the TOS and even though it says nothing about it i want to make sure.
[08:06] <gnomefreak> your key looks like mine when you click on it
[08:06] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, good or bad?
[08:07] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: not sure
[08:07] <Bodsda> lol,.,.ok
[08:07] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: try removing the dir you were using
[08:07] <wgrant> Calvin: I don't believe Canonical does anything of the sort.
[08:07] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: we will go step by step
[08:07] <Bodsda> ive tried in ~/.coc and /home/bod
[08:07] <Bodsda> and ~/Desktop
[08:07] <gnomefreak> wgrant: care to fix the bouces flooding
[08:08] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: remove ~/.coc
[08:08] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Hm?
[08:08] <lifeless> Calvin: I believe we just host. However, if you are concerned can I encourage you to file a 'question' on the launchpad project within launchpad.
[08:08] <lifeless> Calvin: because: the TOS *should* be able to answer such questions and as its not clear enough the devs of that part of launchpad need to know that it wasn't sufficient, and at the same time they can answer your question authoritatively.
[08:09] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, removed
[08:09] <gnomefreak> wgrant: some guy on our bugs mailing list keeps getting about ~100 uncaught bounces a day. is theis LP or is this ML?
[08:09] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: mkdir ~/coc
[08:09] <wgrant> IMO the TOS is fine in that it doesn't say this - the only reason it would need to is if another hosting site does such ridiculous things... which it apparently does.
[08:09] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: with ou the .
[08:10] <Calvin> ok, thanks wgrant and lifeless. i'll go ahead and do that now
[08:10] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: dont make file hidden
[08:10] <Bodsda> done
[08:10] <gnomefreak> ok cd into it
[08:10] <Bodsda> yep
[08:10] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: run this command wget https://edge.launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1/+download
[08:10] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Hard to say without a copy of one of the emails. Also not that though I administer a number of mailing lists, I can't do anything about Launchpad ones...
[08:11] <wgrant> s/not/note/
[08:11] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, done
[08:11] <gnomefreak> wgrant: give me a sec and ill post it on pastebin
[08:11] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: run this command mv +download UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt
[08:11] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, done
[08:12] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: this command as well gpg --clearsign UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt
[08:12] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, done
[08:12] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: than check to see if the .asc is right by running gedit Ubuntu.....asc
[08:13] <gnomefreak> replace ... with the file name
[08:13] <Bodsda> k
[08:13] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, its empty
[08:13] <gnomefreak> hmm
[08:14] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: when did you make this key?
[08:14] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, about a month ago but only validated it today
[08:14] <wgrant> Bodsda: Is it empty, or does it not exist?
[08:14] <Bodsda> wgrant, it exists but the file has notext inside it
[08:15] <wgrant> Huh. How strange.
[08:15] <geser> Bodsda: did gpg complain when you called it?
[08:15] <wgrant> You did enter your passphrase when asked, right?
[08:16] <Bodsda> geser, no it didnt -- wgrant yes
[08:16] <gnomefreak> wgrant: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/1041073 this is the email that we/i'm getting im assuming its anyone subscribed to that list
[08:16] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: it didnt ask for password?
[08:16] <Bodsda> no, it didnt complain and it DID ask for a passphrase
[08:17] <gnomefreak> oh ok
[08:17]  * gnomefreak wondering if key is bad
[08:18] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: have you used this key for anything?
[08:18] <geser> Bodsda: and still the .asc file has zero length?
[08:18] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, no - geser, correct
[08:18] <Bodsda> actually ive used the key for decoding an email gnomefreak
[08:18] <wgrant> gnomefreak: That will only go to the admins, I believe. No idea how that can be happening - Google's server seem to be having issues.
[08:19] <geser> really strange as it works for me (just tested)
[08:19] <gnomefreak> it looks like i set it to stop showign them but i would rather not have the clutter anywhere assuming the ML saves the posts
[08:19] <gnomefreak> geser: me too
[08:20] <gnomefreak> and i gave him exact commands i used
[08:20] <wgrant> gnomefreak: It's not on the list. It's just going to the admins.
[08:20] <wgrant> Unless your list config is broken.
[08:20] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: you havent gotten any errors or warnings?
[08:20] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, nope
[08:21] <gnomefreak> wgrant: ah thanks
[08:22] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, if i pm you my passphrase can you see if it works on your end?
[08:22] <gnomefreak> well i told asac that i set the bounces to not make them or something like that but it would be nice to have that set to yes again but not with all this crap i get enough emails without those bounces. in the box that i get them in i also get ~200 other emails
[08:22] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: i would rather not thats way too insecure
[08:23] <Bodsda> ok
[08:23] <geser> Bodsda: he would also need the private part of your key and then you should really generate a new one
[08:23]  * gnomefreak thinks its a key issue
[08:23] <Bodsda> can i make a new key?
[08:23] <gnomefreak> i dont remember how to remove a key but i would try making a new one
[08:23] <lifeless> I think its possibly a lp bug
[08:24] <gnomefreak> lifeless: no cant be
[08:24] <Bodsda> ok il try making a new key
[08:24] <gnomefreak> lifeless: its in his $HOME
[08:24] <gnomefreak> clearsign doesnt use LP
[08:24] <gnomefreak> and when i made it it worked as it should
[08:24] <gnomefreak> geser also tested it
[08:25] <Bodsda> what type of key should i use?
[08:25] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: you might want to follow a guide on it
[08:25] <gnomefreak> i will see if i have it in bookmarks
[08:26] <lifeless> oh, ths isn't the one lp mails out, this is the local action ?
[08:26] <Bodsda> im following the launchpad instructions which dont specify which to use
[08:26] <geser> Bodsda: you key looks ok (DSA/ElGamal)
[08:26] <Bodsda> (1) DSA and Elgamal (default)   (2) DSA (sign only)   (5) RSA (sign only)
[08:27] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[08:27] <Bodsda> thanks
[08:27] <gnomefreak> that should work if you have any questions let us know
[08:27]  * gnomefreak smoke
[08:28] <Bodsda> k cheers guys
[08:35] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, ok,just cancelled the old key and validated a new key successfully
[08:36] <gnomefreak> let me know if you are able to do it this time
[08:36] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, slight prob -- my comp still thinks im using the old key
[08:37] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: do you have both keys in gpg --list-keys
[08:38] <Bodsda> yes
[08:38] <Bodsda> it also gives me a file path so il go remove the old one
[08:39] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, i cant open the file though
[08:39] <nad> hello
[08:40] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: you can remove it with gpg --delete-keys but im not sure if you have to add the key #
[08:40] <nad> every one
[08:40] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, ok,.,.il try
[08:40] <nad> i have a quetion
[08:41] <gnomefreak> nad: ?
[08:42] <nad> why is it that ubuntu is for free and not
[08:42]  * gnomefreak needs to find a pizza place open at 3:45am :(
[08:42] <gnomefreak> nad: what do you mean?
[08:42] <lifeless> not what?
[08:42] <nad> dvds and cds are not for free
[08:42] <gnomefreak> nad: and why in this channel? this isnt ubuntu support
[08:43] <Bodsda> i believe one of Mark Shuttleworths reasons for starting Ubuntu was to have it be free to give to third world countries who cant afford windows
[08:43] <lifeless> not a support question :P
[08:43] <gnomefreak> download the ISo and the cds are if you use ship it
[08:43] <lifeless> anyhow
[08:43] <lifeless> cd's and dvd's cost per-item created
[08:43] <lifeless> via shipit we provide cd's for free
[08:43] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, no joy .asc is stillempty even with the new key
[08:44] <gnomefreak> IIRC there is   dvd ISO you can download for free
[08:44] <lifeless> but other people that want to are able to make their own ubuntu cd's, and they often need to recoup their costs
[08:44] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: thats strange
[08:44] <Bodsda> very ;~)
[08:44] <lifeless> and they are allowed to - its part of the freedoms of ubuntu
[08:44] <geser> Bodsda: as your old key is already on the keyservers please revoke it before you remove it
[08:44] <Bodsda> geser, did that before i made the new key
[08:44] <geser> good
[08:45] <lifeless> and yes, the ISO for the dvd's is available for free
[08:45] <lifeless> (download that is)
[08:45] <nad> dvds and cds are sold at amazon and yet they can send a free cd
[08:45] <geser> Bodsda: can you try running gpg with --verbose and pastebin the output?
[08:46] <gnomefreak> and every release they lower the amount you can get
[08:46] <Bodsda> geser, gpg --verbose?
[08:46] <lifeless> nad: yes
[08:46] <nad> are they different
[08:46] <geser> Bodsda: gpg -v --clearsign UbuntuCoC...
[08:47] <gnomefreak> im thinking thats a wrog command but i typed too slow
[08:47] <Bodsda> oh, k,.,.1 sec
[08:47] <lifeless> I haven't seen the amazon cd's, but AFAIK they have the same content - are made from the same ISO file
[08:47] <lifeless> ditto the DVD's
[08:48] <gnomefreak> you can sell the cd and dvds for a price (cant remember the exact wording of it) but it does say you can sell them per the GPL
[08:48] <nad> what is the difference between the desktop edition and server edition
[08:48] <gnomefreak> nad: server doesnt have X
[08:48] <lifeless> desktop edition comes with gnome
[08:48] <Bodsda> gnomefreak, geser -- http://paste.ubuntu.com/17849/
[08:48] <lifeless> server comes with extra server utilities instead of gnome
[08:49] <lifeless> (all of which are available online anyhow)
[08:49] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: that looks normal
[08:49] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: and the .asc is still empty?
[08:49] <Bodsda> yep
[08:49] <geser> Bodsda: can you also pastebin the output of "ls -l" for that dir?
[08:50] <gnomefreak> could it be full and just not showing you for some reason
[08:50] <Bodsda> geser, only twofiles the .txt & .asc
[08:50] <Bodsda> -rw-r--r-- 1 bod bod 4606 2008-06-07 08:41 UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt
[08:50] <Bodsda> -rw-r--r-- 1 bod bod 4842 2008-06-07 08:47 UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt.asc
[08:50] <Bodsda> oops!!!!
[08:50] <Bodsda> omg -- im sorry
[08:51]  * Bodsda feels so stupid
[08:51]  * gnomefreak gonna ask why
[08:51] <Bodsda> UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.asc
[08:51] <Bodsda> is indeed empty
[08:51] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: why/.
[08:51] <Bodsda> but UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt.asc isnt
[08:51] <gnomefreak> .asc is full?
[08:52] <Bodsda> looks like the coc
[08:52] <gnomefreak> and .txt is empty?
[08:52] <Bodsda> nope
[08:52] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: should be coc with your signature on it
[08:52] <gnomefreak> at top and bottom
[08:52] <Bodsda> yep!
[08:52] <Bodsda> sorry guys i was tryin to open .asc not .txt.asc
[08:53] <geser> gnomefreak: he tried to view the contents of UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.asc instead of UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt.asc
[08:53] <Bodsda> but .asc didnt exist
[08:53] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: ah
[08:53]  * Bodsda facepalms
[08:54] <Bodsda> woot! im an ubuntero
[08:54] <Bodsda> that was irritatingly painstaking pebkac
[08:55] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: to prevent that use the tab key to complete the file name
[08:55] <Bodsda> i did,. it stopped at .txt and i thought that cant be right cause theres a .asc so i manually entered it
[08:55] <gnomefreak> with that one you would have to do Ubu<tab>.<tab>
[08:55] <Bodsda> forgotto double tab
[08:56] <gnomefreak> Bodsda: its all part of learning
[08:56] <Bodsda> indeed ,.,. but i thought id mastered reading a while ago
[08:58] <gnomefreak> what is the email add. for the people (team) that handles removeing mailing lists? i sent them one a long time ago and its still up and running
[08:58] <Bodsda> also, i filed a bug report a while ago about wifi lagging my system but this seems to be fixed by the recent updates -- if everything is ok in a few days il mark post as redundent or sometihng
[08:59] <gnomefreak> invalid :)
[08:59] <Bodsda> yeah that one ;~)
[12:25] <Pretto> hi guys
[12:26] <Pretto> now i noticed a translation in my lauchpad page that i that was not my translation
[12:27] <Pretto> two packages that i did not translate
[12:56] <Peng> Somebody cracked your account and translated stuff? How awful!
[12:56] <Peng> Maybe he snuck bad words into the translation.
[12:58] <Pretto> Peng, are you kiding huh?
[12:58] <Peng> Yes.
[12:58] <Peng> I'm useless.
[12:59] <Peng> But I wasn't interrupting anything, so..
[13:08] <kiko-afk> Pretto, can you ask about this on answers.l.n (see /topic)? I'll get somebody to look at it
[13:08] <Pretto> kiko-afk, ok
[13:10] <kiko-afk> gotta run
[19:15] <brandon_rhodes> Is there a launchpad "powered by" logo that I can use?  I'm changing my project's web site to, up at the top, point people over to launchpad for bugs/code/answers/etc...
[19:15] <brandon_rhodes> The top of the page will tell people that my own site is where to find docs; PyPI is where to download; and Lauchpad is where everything else lives.
[21:24] <emgent> heya
[22:35] <ghtdak_> there must be a simple "step by step" process to create a bzr repo and upload to launchpad... I imagine this is a 5 times a day question... but I find nothing...
[22:36] <beuno> ghtdak_, https://help.launchpad.net/BzrHowto
[22:37] <ghtdak_> ah, there it is... the launchpad instructions are incorrect when instructing how to upload... thx
[22:38] <beuno> ghtdak_, the ones I just sent you, or somewhere else?
[22:39] <ghtdak_> on the launchpad site... it says: bzr push lp:~glenn-tarbox/qt4reactor/trunk
[22:39] <ghtdak_> and complains with a microsoft style pointless error... who comes up with this stuff :-)
[22:46] <ghtdak_> all is well... thx again
[22:47] <beuno> ghtdak_, ah, well, lp: URLs are preferred
[22:48] <beuno> you probably need to run:  bzr launchpad-login your_username
[22:51] <ghtdak_> ah... see I'm a git guy... with a brief stopover into hg... so its all getting a bit much... was hoping just to nail this one up without much thinking...  fortunately, I've purged SVN :-)
[22:54] <beuno> ghtdak_, it's a one time thing, so you should be fine from now on  :)
[22:54] <beuno> the newer versions of bzr do a better job at explaining what you're missing
[23:06] <hubuntu> when registering a branch what is the difference between mirrored and remote?
[23:11] <hubuntu> anyone please?
[23:37] <thumper> hubuntu: come back


[01:15]  * mwhudson stares at a pqm regex failure mail
[01:16] <wgrant> mwhudson: Um, not choking on self-signed certs is a feature?
[01:16] <mwhudson> wgrant: for svn imports, yes
[01:18]  * mwhudson sighs
[01:18] <mwhudson> release-criticial=flacoste
[01:33] <james_w> has edge still not rolled out with my task_age fix?
[01:34] <maxb> It would be really quite nice if someone could get around to making xx-resetpassword-of-sso-account.txt not be an unavoidable test failure for non-Canonicalites :-/
[01:54] <lifeless> hey, who would be a good person to chat to about tweaking the CoC signing workflow
[02:55] <mwhudson> rockstar: you there?
[02:55] <rockstar> mwhudson, yes.
[02:55] <mwhudson> rockstar: can you triage https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/497603 ?
[02:55] <mup> Bug #497603: Y.codereview.connect_links creates a new picker every time the link is clicked <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/497603>
[02:57] <mwhudson> hm
[02:57] <mwhudson> i haven't had any email from launchpad for a few minutes
[03:41] <mwhudson> where's my patch -> branch feature
[03:52] <kfogel> mwhudson: whoo hoo!  That branch we were ec2-ing earlier has passed all tests and, it seems, landed.  *relief*
[03:53] <kfogel> matsubara: thanks for marking all that stuff Fix Committed.
[04:13] <devmod> hello
[04:14] <devmod> So, im trying to install launchpad and im running the script and it gets stuck in "[#########\          ]  61430KB   163KB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting stream" been sitting there for like 15 mins and no progress has been made... wondering if that is normal
[04:14] <kfogel> devmod: what version of bzr?
[04:16] <devmod> Bazaar (bzr) 2.0.2
[04:18] <kfogel> devmod: hunh.  That doesn't sound normal to me.  All I can suggest is upgrading bzr, to bleeding edge if necessary.
[04:19] <devmod> its the same version I have on my other ubuntu karmic machine
[04:21] <kfogel> devmod: temporary network error?
[04:22] <devmod> happened twice
[04:22] <kfogel> devmod: (I'd stick around to debug more, but it's 11:30pm where I am; I'm just here to get a couple of things done and then zzzzz.  Sorry not to get more engaged :-(  ).
[04:22] <devmod> that is ok thanks
[04:23] <kfogel> spm: is there anything we can do to ensure that db-devel (in particular, the recently-landed http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/db-devel/revision/8961) gets deployed to staging "soon"?  I'm not sure if that's an automatic process that just happens to take ~1day, or if there is prodding I'm supposed to do.
[04:24] <spm> kfogel: it's automatic; and if there's DB changes, hastening it is a Really Bad Idea™
[04:24] <kfogel> devmod: Don't know what TZ you're in, but there should be more people in a few hours.
[04:24] <kfogel> devmod: UK time morning, you see
[04:24] <devmod> oh yeah EST here
[04:27] <kfogel> spm: there are DB changes, and I don't particularly need to hasten it, I just want to know that it will be available for Jorge Castro to use by EOD Thursday (he's giving a talk Friday morning, demo'ing against staging if he can).  I can't remember what TZ he is in right now -- I think US West Coast?
[04:28] <elmo> yes, US west coast
[04:29] <kfogel> elmo: thx
[04:30] <spm> kfogel: hmmm. that may be cutting it fine. fwiw: https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt
[04:30] <kfogel> spm: hunh..  So every half hour it does... something?  What's it waiting for?
[04:31] <spm> updates it can apply; but if you have db updates; it (still does?) a full DB rewhatsit. which is ... slow.
[04:32] <spm> kfogel: as in a full staging restore takes something like 20 hours.
[04:32] <kfogel> spm: and how can we tell when that's started?
[04:33] <spm> kfogel: ps fuxww | grep restore. :-)
[04:33]  * kfogel growls
[04:33] <spm> one kicked off yesterday... trying to find the exact time
[04:35] <spm> kfogel: what revno are you waiting on?
[04:35] <spm> if 8955, that's currently doing an update to the DB as well; if > than that...
[04:35] <kfogel> spm: the one above
[04:35] <kfogel> spm: let me grab it
[04:36] <kfogel> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/db-devel/revision/8961
[04:36] <kfogel> so, 8961
[04:37] <spm> hmmm. I may be able to break this and kick off a new restore.
[04:37] <devmod> I manually did "bzr branch lp:~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel lp-branches/devel/" and it got stuck on the same exact place "[#########|          ]  61430KB     0KB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting stream" wth?
[04:37] <spm> devmod: any network activity still happening?
[04:38] <spm> kfogel: to verify. this one: Implement a "+patches" view on packages, products, project groups, series, persons, and teams.
[04:41] <kfogel> spm: right
[04:44] <devmod> what port would bzr branch lp: use?
[04:44] <spm> kfogel: oki, first problem - that hasn't landed on db-devel yet; is still in Buildbot.
[04:44] <spm> has ~ another 3.5 hours ETA
[04:49] <spm> devmod: 22, ssh. or also look for host <IP_ADDRESS>
[04:50] <kfogel> spm: oh, that rev has to go through buildbot?
[04:50] <kfogel> first, I mean?
[04:50] <spm> kfogel: yup
[04:51] <kfogel> spm: wait, I'm confused.  I've updated db-devel here, and that rev is definitely present.
[04:51] <kfogel> I mean, it's in my branch here, which is just a branch of db-devel.
[04:51] <spm> staging is db-stable
[04:52] <spm> kfogel: https://dev.launchpad.net/Trunk (pretty diagrams :-) )
[04:52] <kfogel> spm: so it moves from db-devel to db-stable after it's been through buildbot?
[04:52] <spm> right
[04:53] <kfogel> spm: diagram is very helpful, thanks
[04:53] <spm> the idea was to get *a* landing is fast; get an approved and tested landing; happens; and gets a bunch of other merges in one hit; but only after testing is it applied to staging; and hence makes for a 4 step process diagram.
[04:53] <spm> 4 branch - process/diagra
[04:59] <devmod> 04:59:04.674042 IP crowberry.canonical.com.www > <IP_ADDRESS>.52521: Flags [R], seq<PHONE_NUMBER>:3835263606, win 0, length 3
[04:59] <devmod> gets stuck there
[04:59] <devmod> win 0 ?
[04:59] <kfogel> spm: so basically, we shouldn't count on this being live on staging by Friday morning US west coast time, though it *might* happen, right?
[05:01] <spm> kfogel: the only way it's even got a chance is if I stop the existing restore; and hold pending that landing getting thru buildbot; and even then... yeah, cutting it fine.
[05:02] <kfogel> spm: urgk.  Well, I don't know how often these things come up.  Jorge wants to use it in a plenary talk on Friday.
[05:03] <spm> kfogel: is the DB side critical? as in the other changes as part of the set should be on edge; or soon will be?
[05:03] <kfogel> spm: the db changes are a critical part of the overall change, yes
[05:04] <kfogel> spm: this stuff hasn't landed on devel, afaik, since it needs its db changes.  It's only in db-devel.  So I'm not expecting to see it on edge right away.
[05:05] <spm> kfogel: oki; I'll see what I can do, but zero promises unf. these restores are not fast.
[05:06] <kfogel> spm: thank you.  I'm composing a mail to lp-dev; I'll make it clear that no promises are being made.
[05:45] <kfogel> spm: g'night
[05:45] <kfogel> well, g'afternoon
[05:45] <kfogel> zzz
[05:45] <spm> kfogel: likewise!
[05:45] <spm> heh
[08:41] <thekorn> hi, bug 515761 is about not being able to get collections correctly when using this anonymous API feature,
[08:42] <mup> Bug #515761: Not able to access collections anonymously <launchpadlib :Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/515761>
[08:42] <thekorn> what is the correct bug target for this, launchpadlib looks wrong to me
[08:52] <wgrant> thekorn: launchpad-registry.
[08:52] <wgrant> Or is it all collections?
[08:52] <bigjools> hello hackers
[08:53] <thekorn> wgrant, looks like all collection, maybe it's lazr.restful?
[08:53] <wgrant> It could be.
[08:53]  * wgrant looks.
[08:56] <bigjools> al-maisan: morning.  Did you get far with bug 516922?
[08:56] <mup> Bug #516922: process-pending-packagediffs breaking <Soyuz:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/516922>
[08:56] <wgrant> thekorn: It's not all collections. I am digging further.
[08:56] <al-maisan> bigjools: I did not start on it yet, looking at yesterday's bug.
[08:57] <al-maisan> bigjools: should I get going on Bug #516922?
[08:57] <mup> Bug #516922: process-pending-packagediffs breaking <Soyuz:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/516922>
[08:57] <bigjools> al-maisan: yes this one is more important
[08:57] <al-maisan> bigjools: ack
[08:57] <bigjools> al-maisan: thank you
[08:57] <thekorn> wgrant, oh, so it seems like I had bad luck only picking collections where something goes wrong
[08:57] <al-maisan> bigjools: de nada
[08:58] <wgrant> thekorn: eg. bug.bug_tasks works.
[09:06] <thekorn> wgrant, hmm, right
[09:10] <mrevell> Morning
[09:11] <wgrant> thekorn: Ahem.
[09:11] <wgrant> thekorn: I found the cause for product.series.
[09:12] <wgrant>     permision = 'launchpad.View'
[09:12] <wgrant> somebody cannot spell.
[09:12] <wgrant> thekorn: What other cases are there?
[09:12] <thekorn> wgrant, bug.messages and bug.subscriptions
[09:14] <wgrant> thekorn: Yeah, I see why this is all happening.
[09:15] <thekorn> wgrant, super, great, thanks a lot
[09:15] <wgrant> Basically, lazr.restful returns an object if you hold launchpad.View on it.
[09:15] <wgrant> Objects like messages and bugsubscriptions have no security adapters, so it falls to the root one.
[09:15] <asabil> hi all
[09:15] <wgrant> Which, in this case, is ('launchpad.View', Interface) -> ViewByLoggedInUser, which only allows authenticated users.
[09:15] <asabil> is it normal that the xmlrpc service is handled by codebrowse ?
[09:18] <wgrant> (I had actually wondered from the start how it knew to hide objects, given that I saw no way for it to happen reliably. I was right.)
[09:31] <thekorn> wgrant, so will the solution for this be to write security adapters for all affected collection, or might there be a more general solution?
[09:32] <wgrant> thekorn: I think ViewByLoggedInUser is probably a bug.
[09:32] <wgrant> thekorn: It should probably just be View.
[09:33] <wgrant> There may be a couple of places that it makes sense, but not many.
[09:33] <wgrant> It shouldn't be the default security adapter.
[09:47] <thekorn> wgrant, I think even if the typo is fixed IProductRelease will need a security adapter for launchpad.View in order to get a working product.releases, but this is just a minor side note ;)
[09:49] <wgrant> thekorn: Yes, the underlying issue needs to be fixed oto.
[11:24] <jml> thumper, time.mktime(date_time.timetuple())
[11:25] <jml> thumper, but! it fucks up timezones
[11:27] <jml> thumper, it doesn't actually, utctimetuple would
[12:05] <asabil> can someone help me with this: http://pastebin.com/d68e0056c ?
[12:06] <asabil> I am setting up launchpad manually to learn about things
[12:09] <asabil> anyone ?
[14:41] <mars> hmm, our "The Server is Down" page probably shouldn't try to load it's CSS from a file on self-said server...
[14:50] <mthaddon> mars: it's hosted statically so it doesn't matter
[14:53] <mars> mthaddon, ok, thanks.  Then the styling is just plain messed up.
[14:53] <mthaddon> could be, yeah
[15:12] <henninge> salgado-lunch: Hi, ping me when you get back, please.
[15:54] <thekorn> allenap, thanks for your review, looking at it now
[15:57] <matsubara> Chex, rockstar, bigjools, Ursinha, sinzui, allenap: LP production meeting in 3 min @ #launchpad-meeting
[15:58] <al-maisan> matsubara: bigjools is sprinting .. I'll stand in for him.
[15:58] <matsubara> henninge, ^
[15:58] <matsubara> thanks al-maisan
[15:59] <salgado> hi henninge
[15:59] <henninge> salgado: Hi! ;)
[16:00] <henninge> salgado: I have some ideas about the LP security system and wanted to ask you if you know of any plans to work on it?
[16:00] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: can you attend the production #launchpad-meeting
[16:01] <salgado> henninge, if I have plans to work on it or if there's any work planned on that area at all?
[16:02] <henninge> salgado: in general. I am talking to you because I thought that this falls into your team's expertise.
[16:03] <henninge> salgado: I could just put my ideas out on the mailing list or a wiki page or a blueprint but thought I'd checked if any work in that direction is already planned.
[16:03] <salgado> henninge, it does, yes, but I'm not aware of any planned work on that area
[16:04] <henninge> salgado: do you use blueprints, bugs or wiki pages to collect plans/ideas?
[16:04] <henninge> Or should I start with an RFD on the ML?
[16:05] <salgado> henninge, bugs, mostly, but I guess a RFD on the ML would be good in this case
[16:05] <henninge> salgado: cool, will do that. Thanks.
[16:38] <jml> intellectronica, great link!
[16:38] <jml> sinzui, http://www.runleiarun.com/lebowski/
[16:41] <intellectronica> oh, it's amzing
[16:41] <intellectronica> it's this kind of stuff that restores my faith in the internet
[16:47] <jml> intellectronica, well put :)
[17:20] <jtv> good night, folks!
[17:53] <jml> you guys
[17:53] <jml> your coding standard is basically stupid
[17:53] <jml> how come functions and methods are differently formatted?
[17:53] <jml> is there a thing that makes them different?
[17:57] <intellectronica> jml: one you can have in java and the other you can't
[17:57] <intellectronica> we're industry standard like that
[18:07] <didrocks> hey, I can't remove some token from my authorized applicatoin list today (from production or edge server): https://edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+oauth-tokens
[18:08] <didrocks> I got a "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. You are logged in as Didier Roche."
[18:08] <didrocks> when trying to revoke an authorization
[18:17] <maxb> didrocks: It got broken in the last rollout. Let me find the bug number....
[18:18] <maxb> bug 511567
[18:18] <mup> Bug #511567: Can't remove authorised oauth tokens <Launchpad Foundations:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/511567>
[18:18] <didrocks> maxb: thanks, I'll follow it
[18:24] <didrocks> btw, do someone have any clue about the crash I got trying to install LP locally to extend Launchpad API? (http://pastebin.com/f5426fbab)
[18:37] <jamalta> would you guys care if i make the community-contributions script merge the 3 version of me? ... i kinda ruined the count there, heh
[18:40] <EdwinGrubbs> salgado: ping
[18:42] <intellectronica> didrocks: did you use rocketfuel-setup to install?
[18:42] <salgado> hi EdwinGrubbs
[18:44] <EdwinGrubbs> salgado: are you the person to ask questions about adding a launchpad-dependency and a package to the PPA? I saw the wiki page, but it didn't really have any guidelines.
[18:45] <salgado> EdwinGrubbs, I used to be responsible for that, but since we moved to a PPA I'm not.  I might be able to answer any questions you have, though
[18:46] <jamalta> also, could i get some input for bug #515761?
[18:46] <mup> Bug #515761: Anonymous API access to some collections returns nothing <Launchpad Foundations:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/515761>
[18:47] <EdwinGrubbs> salgado: I was just going to have PIL 1.1.7, which is already in Lucid, rebuilt for Karmic in the PPA and add that to the launchpad-developer-dependencies. Do I need to get any review of that work?
[18:48] <maxb> We lack defined process for this
[18:49] <maxb> I don't think there's been a case of needing a backported version of a python library in the PPA before
[18:50] <salgado> we had a backported python-apt, IIRC
[18:50] <maxb> You'd have to also backport to hardy and jaunty (or first get jaunty de-supported and deleted from the PPA)
[18:51] <maxb> The closest recent occurrence would be a backported dpkg
[18:52] <maxb> If there was a backported python-apt, I think it must have been pre-opensourcing
[18:57] <salgado> it was
[18:58] <salgado> EdwinGrubbs, so, as maxb pointed out, there are a few extra steps you might have to take.  although we don't require a formal review, it's probably a good idea to email the list about it
[19:01] <EdwinGrubbs> salgado: ok, thanks
[19:17] <mwhudson> good morning
[19:32] <didrocks> intellectronica: right (sorry for the delay). But it failed because of wrong bzr base version on one of your LP branch. james_w fixed it locally for me and opened a bug. Then, I tried to continue the process and run the command I pastebin
[19:34] <james_w> didrocks: try a ./utilities/rocketfuel-get
[19:48] <lifeless> abentley: what does 'xvfb-run xdypinfo' do for you?
[19:49] <abentley> lifeless, /usr/bin/xvfb-run: 180: xdypinfo: not found
[19:51] <lifeless> bah
[19:51] <lifeless> dpy :)
[19:52] <lifeless> I don't care about the particular output, just whether it errors or not
[19:53] <abentley> lifeless, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/369066/
[19:53] <abentley> lifeless, no error if I run xdpyinfo
[19:53] <lifeless> ok so the base server seems to be happy
[20:10] <didrocks> wgrant: do you know about something special to do for installing LP on lucid? it seems it can't import bzrlib as python2.5 is in my path in the devel/lib/devscripts/sourcecode.py and not 2.6?
[20:14] <jamalta> i have to close firefox to run bin/test, haha
[20:18] <maxb> didrocks: ah, yes. update-sourcecode is a special case
[20:18] <didrocks> maxb: any hint about changing that? adding python2.6 in the path in the script?
[20:19] <didrocks> be back in a minute
[20:19] <maxb> didrocks: I think it should work if you just change the shebang in update-sourcecode to be /usr/bin/python
[20:22] <didrocks> maxb: oh right, let's try this
[20:27] <didrocks> maxb: apparently, it didn't crash (yet :)) and I'm getting more branch back. Thanks a lot!
[21:21] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: ping
[21:22] <mars> hi EdwinGrubbs
[21:25] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: I'm sorry to pester you again. Did you want to take a look at my sprite implementation? I have something that will work, so I could just get it ready for review, but you seemed interested in the design.
[21:26] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, I did read it.  Reviewing it again now...
[21:27] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, why do the makefile targets not depend on the files they output?
[21:28] <mars> I could ask the same for combine-css
[21:28] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: because I'm not finished with the branch yet.
[21:28] <mars> lol
[21:29] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: I think someone else is working on combine_css so I should check that I don't conflict with their changes.
[21:30] <mars> I don't think anyone has touched that yet.
[21:30] <mars> funny, I thought it would be a big deal to fix the combine_css step
[21:31] <mars> turns out you just have to rewrite the Makefile target to Do The Right Thing (that being, depend on the generated file)
[21:31] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: now that I think about it some more, I believe rockstar was going to work on that when he becomes chr, so he probably hasn't started on it.
[21:31] <rockstar> mars, I'm already working on that.
[21:32] <rockstar> mars, I said in our meeting on Monday that I'd be working on that.
[21:32] <rockstar> So shame on you for not listening...  :)
[21:32] <mars> rockstar, yep!  I remember.  So does EdwinGrubbs
[21:33] <mars> rockstar, but if you haven't fixed it, maybe Edwin can, as he will probably be rewrite and testing his Makefile targets in the exact same way.
[21:33] <EdwinGrubbs> rockstar: out of curiosity, is your fix going to be smart enough to regenerate combo.css if any of the twenty odd individual css files are updated?
[21:34] <rockstar> EdwinGrubbs, it doesn't in its current form in my branch, but I need to look into why, because make is supposed to figure out that when those files change, it has to re-create the target.
[21:34] <rockstar> EdwinGrubbs, basically, we're doing something with the Makefile that is against nature.
[21:34] <mars> hehe
[21:35] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, I liked the "PIL as a developer dependency" bit
[21:35] <mars> that part makes sense
[21:36] <maxb> I have two changes to update-sourcecode to submit: (1) Make it not break if you have bzr-git installed. (2) Make it not pull sourcecode branches if there is no update, to avoid triggering bzr-dbus/bzr-gtk notifications for every sourcecode branch.    Should I submit them as one branch or two?
[21:36] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: is there anything that doesn't make sense?
[21:36] <mwhudson> maxb: one sounds ok to me
[21:37] <mars> rockstar, sorry, I didn't realize you were rolling up a bunch of stuff into one branch like that.
[21:38] <rockstar> mars, well, it's all relatively related.
[21:39] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, the contents of icon-sprites.positioning is confusing.  Is it JSON or something?
[21:39] <mars> no, python?
[21:40] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: yes, it's json, but it could just as easily be a pickled object.
[21:40] <mars> oh no thank you!  JSON is better.
[21:40] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, so that file is a build system output?
[21:41] <rockstar> mars, basically, we need separate targets for css and js combinations.
[21:42] <mars> rockstar, yes, that would make things sane again.  Are you going to try and move those targets out of the main Makefile?
[21:42] <rockstar> mars, I don't see any benefit to doing that.
[21:42] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: actually, that file is a build system input. You have to commit it when you commit icon-sprites, so that "sprite-util create-css" knows what background-position to set for each sprite.
[21:43] <rockstar> It just means it's harder to find when someone wants to make changes to it.
[21:43] <mars> rockstar, ah.  I was worried that trying to clean up the static build system would lead to an explosion of targets (css, js, images)
[21:43] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, ok, is the file edited by hand?
[21:43] <mars> whether it is or not is not clear from the diff context
[21:47] <mwhudson> abentley: my main thought in response to your recent email is
[21:47] <mwhudson> "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
[21:48] <abentley> mwhudson, +1
[21:48] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: no, icon-sprites.positioning is generated by "sprite-util create-image" using the savePositioning() method.
[21:48] <mars> abentley, is mozrunner playing shenanigans on module import?
[21:48] <abentley> mars, yes.
[21:49] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, ok, that is not clear from the context.  Does that file have a warning and developer instructions at the top?
[21:49] <abentley> mars, there is a function definition where the default is os.environ['PATH']
[21:49] <mars> abentley, argh
[21:50] <mars> abentley, do you have the source line?  I can ask about a fix in #windmill if you like
[21:50] <abentley> mars, windmill/dep/_mozrunner/global_settings.py: 42
[21:51] <mars> if it is fixed in trunk/ then we might be able to do a quick backport patch
[21:51] <mars> abentley, cool, thanks
[21:52] <EdwinGrubbs> mars: that's a good idea. I'll put a warning at the top. It seems a little strange to use json for this, but it is nice that it is human readable. Of course, a pickle would discourage people from editing it by hand.
[21:54] <mars> EdwinGrubbs, I think a message will suite better.  That way you can tell the developer "Here is how you fix this file".  A pickle is just mysterious and confusing.
[21:55] <mars> abentley, ah, a violation of the "use None for default keyword arguments" convention
[21:55] <mars> that should be a trivial patch
[21:56] <mars> but I must go and take care of the twins for a minute.  bbiab
[21:57] <mars> abentley, but unfortunately I have no idea how to update the windmill package we use :(
[21:57] <mars> beyond my ken
[21:57] <mars> rockstar, you are build engineer, perhaps that falls under your domain? :)
[21:57]  * rockstar reads backchat
[21:59] <rockstar> mars, I say "file a bug and assign it to me"
[22:00] <maxb> Is there a standard for order of import statements? dev.lp.net/PythonStyleGuide is not very forthcoming on that aspect
[22:00] <rockstar> mars, I'd like to do as much work on windmill as I can, but my specific target as build engineer is getting it so that our javascript file can be bigger than 500K.
[22:04] <wgrant> didrocks: The only changes that I need are to use Karmic's python-pkg-resources and python-setuptools.
[22:04] <mwhudson> maxb: generally it goes system imports, blank line, "local" (i.e. sourcecode & egg imports), blank line, launchpad imports
[22:04] <mwhudson> maxb: alpha sort within each section
[22:05] <wgrant> ie. PEP8
[22:46] <mars> rockstar, ok
[22:46] <mars> abentley, looks like windmill is kept as python library dependency, and that we are already keeping a patch of some sort
[22:46] <mars> upgrading it should be trivial
[22:47] <mars> 'simple'