[01:14] <ronj> howdy
[01:14] <ailo> ronj: Ronan, right?
[01:15] <ronj> ailo, yup. I agree with your email, maybe the perf improvements with -lowlatency occur on heavy setups with lots of i/o
[01:15] <ronj> could use some more testing
[01:15] <ronj> well that was what somebody suggested at some point in the mailinglist
[01:16] <ronj> ailo, also could you add your results to the table?
[01:16] <ailo> Me and rlameiro are about to create a test program using a script and puredata, which hopefully can be useful for finding that out.
[01:16] <ronj> even if it's only qualitative
[01:16] <ronj> oooh great :)
[01:16] <ronj> excellent
[01:17] <ailo> I will post my results too.
[01:17] <ronj> share it the mailinglist once it's done, i'll be happy to run it on my system
[01:17] <ronj> ok
[01:17] <ailo> Will do
[01:31] <ailo> ronj: I'm not able to boot the latest -lowlatency. All I need is the image and the headers, right? Why is it not booting?
[01:37] <ronj> ailo, right, only -image and -headers, seems the linux-lowlatency metapackage isn't up2date (stayed at .37)
[01:37] <ronj> for me it boots fine
[01:37] <ronj> any error message?
[01:37] <ailo> Mine just stops and reboots
[01:37] <ailo> Just after Grub
[01:37] <ronj> oÔ
[01:37] <ailo> Maybe I should reinstall, and try again
[01:37] <ronj> hm and have a look at the log
[01:38] <ailo> Grub log?
[01:39] <ScottL> rlameiro, how was the install failing on the ubuntustudio ISO image?
[01:40] <rlameiro> tasksel menu -> choose  packages --> error on install
[01:40] <rlameiro> after that it seds me to the list of the install i continue trying with different choices, even without selecting any task
[01:40] <rlameiro> and the same happens
[01:40] <rlameiro> eventualy i quit
[01:41] <ScottL> rlameiro, did you have the lv2, ladspa, and dssi plugins each as a separate choices during selection?
[01:42] <ScottL> rlameiro, not that you picked them, just were they there as separate choices, as opposed to how they are usually which is all three together as one choice
[01:42] <rlameiro> I had lv2, dssi separated
[01:43] <rlameiro> yest they were separated
[01:44] <ronj> rlameiro, ScottL btw I tried todays iso and it installed fine with all the audio packages checked
[01:44] <ronj> (all except video and graphic)
[01:44] <rlameiro> hummm
[01:44] <ScottL> i am planning on talking to cjwatson tomorrow while i am at work about this
[01:44] <ailo> I'm guessing I get better luck with /var/log/boot, but I had to enable logging from /etc/default/bootlogd
[01:44] <rlameiro> i tried 29th build
[01:45] <rlameiro> AMD64
[01:45] <ronj> mine is todays/i386
[01:45] <rlameiro> letme rzync it
[01:46] <rlameiro> ronj: real hardware or VM?
[01:47] <rlameiro> rsynced
[01:48] <ailo> I needed to reinstall the -lowlatency image. I forgot to install the headers first and booted. After that installing headers did not change the boot problem, but reinstalling the image did
[01:49] <ronj> rlameiro, real hardware, dell vostro v13
[01:50] <rlameiro> ok
[01:52] <ScottL> ailo, in response to the email:  i expect the reason i say such a dramatic change between -generic and -lowlatency is because i was the old -generic kernel with the cgroups problems where i couldn't get -rt privileges
[01:52] <rlameiro> reboot time, cd stuck on the slot.... DVD RW not reliable yet
[01:52] <rlameiro> lol
[01:52] <rlameiro> cya soon
[01:54] <ailo> ScottL: I can almost swear that I had two different results on the same kernel, within two days time. Maybe I'm imagining, doesn't matter. Now, I'm getting good results. Seems like the Desktop is faster on the newest kernel, both on -generic and -lowlatency. Just a feeling :)
[01:57] <ronj> ScottL, could you test with todays -generic, with the cgroups stuff sorted out?
[01:57] <ronj> I'm updating the table
[01:57] <rlameiro> where is the table?
[01:59] <ronj> rlameiro, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime#Natty%20Benchmarks
[01:59] <rlameiro> ronj: thanks
[02:03] <rlameiro> ok, rebooting to test it out...
[02:03] <rlameiro> i will come shortly :D
[02:05] <ScottL> ronj, i should be able to test it by tomorrow evening
[02:06] <ronj> yay :)
[02:07] <ailo> I get identical performance and behaviour from the two kernels, from what I see
[02:07] <ailo> 2.9 ms on both
[02:10] <ailo> I can even push it to 1.45 on both, if I don't do anything while Ardour is playing or recording.
[02:13] <ailo> (zzz)
[02:14] <ronj> interesting
[02:23] <rlameiro> ok tasksel menu now
[02:24] <rlameiro> hummm :D
[02:24] <rlameiro> it seems its working
[02:24] <ScottL> rlameiro, did you still have the fragmented plugin selections?
[02:25] <ScottL> we did get the -video metapackage cleared earlier
[02:26] <rlameiro> yes :)
[02:26] <rlameiro> i selected lv2, dssi, tone generation and recording
[02:26] <rlameiro> i think
[02:28] <rlameiro> ScottL, can it be installed later as a metapackage?
[02:29] <rlameiro> well install will take some time, i think i will watch a docu
[02:30] <ronj> ScottL, need iso testing on -video?
[02:50] <ScottL> rlameiro, yes, it can be installed later as a meta package
[02:51] <ScottL> ronj, i don't think we need anything specifically tested, it was that the package wasn't building correclty before because a package had been removed from the repository
[02:51] <ronj> k
[02:52] <ScottL> the seeds were updated for the video metapack age and the package began to build correctly once again :)
[02:58] <rlameiro> hey!!! why does it try to run unity???????
[02:59] <rlameiro> lol and on top crashed the system
[03:00] <ScottL> rlameiro, remember, when you login you must pick "classic desktop" session instead of "ubuntu desktop edition"
[03:00] <rlameiro> lol, too late
[03:00] <ScottL> i have a patch attached to the bug for this but it hasn't been uploaded yet
[03:00] <rlameiro> now it doesnt boot
[03:01] <ScottL> rlameiro, reboot and change the selection
[03:01] <rlameiro> well it boots but dont start....
[03:01] <rlameiro> let me try again
[03:02] <rlameiro> nope.... it stops before the login window
[03:02] <rlameiro> weird...
[03:02] <rlameiro> i will wait to see if it is thiking on RAM
[03:06] <rlameiro> rebooted 3 times
[03:06] <rlameiro> crashed on all of them
[03:07] <rlameiro> tried to go using the recovery failsafeX same problem
[03:07] <rlameiro> what can i do?
[03:07] <rlameiro> maybe there is some conf file i can edit for the boot?
[03:13] <rlameiro> ScottL, do you have any idea how i can fix it?
[03:13] <rlameiro> on the cli
[03:18] <rlameiro> I had a segmentation fault on Xorg server
[03:23] <rlameiro> well i made an apt-get upgrade and disconnected the mouse and it worked
[03:23] <rlameiro> lol
[03:23] <rlameiro> i connected the mouse while logging in the first time
[03:28] <ScottL> rlameiro, glad you managed to get it working then :)
[03:49] <rlameiro> well, tested usb with generic kernel
[03:49] <rlameiro> tomorrow will test firewire
[03:49] <rlameiro> cya
[11:14] <ailo> ScottL: http://en.flossmanuals.net/ There's a few multimedia manuals there. Check it out.
[11:15] <ailo> Quite a lot of Video manuals.
[20:26] <scott-work> cjwatson pointed out what the problem probably is for the ladpsa/lv2/dssi task during installation
[20:28] <scott-work> apparently there is a mishandling of the comma-space separator for the audio-plugins
[20:28] <scott-work> i'll see about making the changes tonight
[20:28] <scott-work> TheMuso: would you be able to update the meta packages again?
[21:19] <scott-work> just for the record, this is the offending line:  Task-Description: LADSPA, LV2, and DSSI audio plugins
[21:19] <scott-work> specifically the use of commas
[21:43] <scott-work> TheMuso: nevermind, i bugged (read: begged) cjwatson and he said updating the metas is uneccesary and even updated the sees and will rerun his tasksel script shortly
[21:43] <scott-work> this should fix the tasksel for alpha2 :)
[21:49] <scott-work> s/sees/seeds


[00:09] <fetova> well...
[00:09] <fetova> i have to go :)
[00:10] <fetova> good day, afternoon and evening! :)
[16:32] <fetova> buenas :)
[16:37] <effie_jayx> fetova,  que mas
[16:38] <effie_jayx> fetova,  I haven't seen pelicano... he was not here yesterday... I will email about me proposing several members for OPs in #ubuntu-es
[16:41] <fetova> holas effie_jayx :)
[16:42] <fetova> thanks a lot ;)
[16:42] <effie_jayx> fetova,  no problem
[16:42] <fetova> :D
[16:56] <fetova> y botijo? :(
[16:59] <effie_jayx> jpatrick,  is botijo dead
[17:05] <jpatrick> effie_jayx: yes
[17:05] <effie_jayx> :(
[17:05] <fetova> jpatrick: :(
[17:09] <jpatrick> ah well
[17:09] <no0tic> :(
[17:11] <jpatrick> http://trolltech.net/28012008/28012008
[17:12] <no0tic> I know
[17:12] <no0tic> :|


[00:15] <bryceh> "Enlightenment E17 Running On Wayland" ooh
[02:47] <Sarvatt> bryceh, RAOF: hrm so theres not much use spending significant effort getting this lts backports stuff into the archive before got 12.04?
[02:47] <Sarvatt> since its going to be the crazy backporting 100 packages with suffixes deal
[02:49] <Sarvatt> we cant have xserver-xorg-video-quezacotl if we dont know what its actually called :P
[02:49] <Sarvatt> xserver-xorg-video-intel-quezacotl that is
[02:50] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Right.  We just need to ensure that we *can* get quezacotl into the archive.
[02:53] <Sarvatt> well the kernel does it and we were told this was how it has to be done so i guess thats how it's going to be? :P
[02:54] <Sarvatt> imagine we'll have some metapackage stuff to work out, would be good to get it working and tested before release at least
[02:54] <Sarvatt> i can probably integrate that into edgers, make a whole new stack an optional install
[02:54] <Sarvatt> xserver 1.12 for instance
[02:54] <Sarvatt> except yeah, libs..
[02:57] <bryceh> Sarvatt, yeah anything that can be practiced in edgers would likely help
[02:59] <tjaalton> well i guess at least libxi, libxrandr will have to be updated too, whatever the server needs
[03:00] <tjaalton> i thought about the upgrade issues the other day..
[03:02] <tjaalton> but now is not the time to remember what it was :)
[03:02] <tjaalton> +try to
[03:04] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: very much agreed about the time issue :)
[03:05] <Sarvatt> libs will have to be upgraded, thats a given
[03:05] <Sarvatt> its only the subtle releases like 1.9->1.10 where you dont, that wont happen for long
[03:05] <Sarvatt> 1.6->1.7, ugh
[03:07] <Sarvatt> i'm slightly worried about pixman because it has a history of affecting things like notify-osd without fixing it and is required quite often
[03:12] <tjaalton> ok so the issue is that you can't "upgrade" to Q from 12.04.3 without cleaning up the backports first
[03:12] <tjaalton> since it would be a downgrade X and kernel-wise
[03:12] <Sarvatt> is that an issue?
[03:12] <tjaalton> not to me
[03:12] <Sarvatt> packages could be versioned lower than Q i mean
[03:12] <tjaalton> just something that should be made clear
[03:13] <Sarvatt> ~Q
[03:13] <tjaalton> ah
[03:13] <tjaalton> well you lose functionality
[03:13] <broder> that's not a problem, because the package names will be different
[03:13] <tjaalton> so if you need the hw support you'll regress
[03:13] <tjaalton> and there's no way to detect that
[03:13] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: what are you doing up at 5am? :)
[03:14] <tjaalton> so, installations made with .3 should not offer the upgrade to other than the next lts imho
[03:14] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: youngest giving trouble for the past 2+h
[03:14] <Sarvatt> oh once P is out yeah that'll be an issue since it'd offer to upgrade to Q but versions would be higher, think i get what you mean
[03:15] <tjaalton> then it was my turn and it took 15min to get her back to sleep :)
[03:15] <tjaalton> yeah the upstream version part, doesn't matter what the package revision is
[03:20] <Sarvatt> err i meant R instead of P there, sheesh
[03:20] <tjaalton> anyway, if we can make our lives easier by adding policy, then lets do that :)
[03:22] <bryceh> hey yeah the 12.04.3 -> Q issue might be worth mentioning, can one of you add it to the blueprint?
[03:22] <tjaalton> on the subscription?
[03:23] <bryceh> also makes me wonder about problems relating to 12.04.3 -> P (skipping Q)
[03:23] <tjaalton> uh
[03:23] <tjaalton> description
[03:23] <tjaalton> s/P/R/
[03:23] <tjaalton> :)
[03:23] <bryceh> in the linked wiki page
[03:23] <tjaalton> oh
[03:24] <tjaalton> hadn't noticed that
[03:24] <broder> 12.04.3 -> P should be fine, right?
[03:24] <broder> because precise's kernel will be newer than any of the 12.04 backports
[03:24] <tjaalton> well it is P :)
[03:25] <broder> it's just, e.g., 12.04.3 -> M that have potential to be problematic
[03:25] <tjaalton> hmm
[03:25] <tjaalton> versions messed up there?
[03:26] <bryceh> yeah I meant 12.04.3 -> R :-)
[03:26] <broder> err...right :)
[03:26] <tjaalton> bryceh: should I add a "questions" headline for drive-by comments like this? :)
[03:26] <broder> 12.04.3 -> R isn't a valid upgrade path, though
[03:26] <Sarvatt> 12.04->Q is fine, thats the only one thats fine, 12.04.5->R will be the problem because it'll offer Q
[03:27] <broder> you can only upgrade 6 months at a time or 2 years at a time
[03:27]  * Sarvatt is totally slow at responding
[03:27]  * RAOF is confused.
[03:27] <Sarvatt> holy crap, me too
[03:27] <tjaalton> .4 is the latest there'll be
[03:27] <Sarvatt> 12.04.5 is R X stack
[03:27] <Sarvatt> newer than Q
[03:27] <bryceh> tjaalton, yeah
[03:27] <tjaalton> .2 (Q stack), .3 (R stack), .4 (S stack)
[03:28] <RAOF> And then we drop everyone on the T stack.
[03:28] <tjaalton> then the next one is another lts
[03:28] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: .3 should be Q still, .4 R?
[03:28] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: .2 is released after Q
[03:28] <tjaalton> .1 just before
[03:28] <tjaalton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/LtsPointUpdatesForXorg
[03:28] <broder> Sarvatt: the point releases are offset from 6-month releases by 3 months
[03:28] <tjaalton> it's all there :)
[03:29] <bryceh> broder, right, so from 12.04.3 you could go to Q (downgrading your X stack), or to R (correct X stack, but not a valid upgrade path)
[03:29] <RAOF> Ahem.  Then after .4 we transition everyone to the T stack, because P is still supported for a long while after .4
[03:29] <tjaalton> RAOF: yep
[03:29] <RAOF> As the various stacks drop out of security support.
[03:29] <bryceh> I put a table with all these into the wiki blueprint page (and dates!)
[03:30] <tjaalton> so basically only vanilla P and maybe P.1 is upgradable to Q, the others -> T
[03:30] <bryceh> yeah it's just something we'll have to document
[03:31] <bryceh> I can't imagine someone who's already opted into 3 point releases is suddenly going to wake up one day and decide to go non-LTS ;-)  But users are crazy, anything could happen.
[03:31] <broder> bryceh: if it was possible to retain the backport-R stack when you upgraded from 12.04.3 -> Q, the user could reboot and upgrade to R immediately
[03:32] <broder> but i don't know if that's going to be possible. it depends on how the packaging magic plays out
[03:32] <tjaalton> bryceh: users can still do that, just that update-manager shouldn't offer it. no way to protect them from sed & apt-get :)
[03:32] <RAOF> That'd be different.
[03:32] <bryceh> broder, right, the only problem would be if they installed 12.04.3 because the Q stack was faulty on their hardware or something.  But we get into weird corner cases at this point.
[03:32] <RAOF> broder: Hm, but you raise a good point; there needs to be some update-manager trickery to ensure that things work correctly.
[03:33] <broder> bryceh: but if they kept using backport-R stack after they upgraded to Q, in the same way that you can have old kernel versions lying around...
[03:33] <tjaalton> yeah they just should reinstall at that point, it'll keep /home intact anyway
[03:34] <RAOF> There's a policy question here - on a 12.04.x → 12.10 upgrade, what stack should the user end up with?  I'd like to say they should just end up with the 12.10 stack, regardless of which 12.04.x they upgraded from.
[03:35]  * Sarvatt was seriously hoping we could just upgrade via -backports and include that on the livecd and not do package name mangling
[03:35]  * broder 's backporter head hurts from that idea
[03:35] <Sarvatt> RAOF: sounds like something update-manager could handle, removing the old stack before upgrading
[03:36] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Right, that's one way of doing it; we could also have the 12.10 stack declare breaks/replaces on the appropriate bits.  Either way, it needs deciding before the 12.10 release.
[03:36] <tjaalton> but then they risk losing hw support
[03:37] <broder> in fairness, that's always a risk on upgrade, regardless of whether you're going forwards or backwards
[03:38] <tjaalton> just declare it as a non-supported upgrade path.. you're on your own if you do that
[03:46] <RAOF> I think this is a huge corner case.  The use-case we're talking about is for people who installed 12.04.3 *in preference to* 13.04, and then want to upgrade to 12.10.
[03:46] <Sarvatt> very true, was about to say that too
[03:47] <RAOF> They probably don't want to do that at all :).  At worst, they *actually* want to upgrade to 13.04 or 13.10.  And we'll support upgrading to 14.04.
[03:47] <tjaalton> right
[03:51] <Sarvatt> so say, ubuntu-desktop depends on xorg
[03:51] <Sarvatt> how does that get fixed
[03:51] <Sarvatt> i'm not seeing it
[03:52] <tjaalton> :)
[03:52] <RAOF> xorg-q Provides: xorg
[03:52] <tjaalton> install ubuntu-desktop-q :)
[03:53] <RAOF> Which is one of the things we need to check pre-12.04: we need to ensure that nothing outside the stack has versioned dependencies on pieces of the stack.
[03:53] <tjaalton> if there are going to be other backports due to pixman changes or such
[03:56] <Sarvatt> we're going to end up having deltas to debian on all of X doing this aren't we?
[03:57] <tjaalton> only on the next lts when it's cleaning up the mess :)
[03:58] <tjaalton> but don't see why the interim release packages should
[03:59] <RAOF> The stack is reasonably self-contained; I don't think we'll need to touch *everything*.
[03:59] <Sarvatt> do you really think meta packages will handle this correctly?
[04:01] <Sarvatt> like right now, try to upgrade to a new X video abi version with a nvidia driver or virtualbox installed providing the old one, the dist-upgrade will remove a metapackage and a bunch of other crap, then things are screwed
[04:01] <RAOF> Those drivers shouldn't provide the old one.
[04:02] <RAOF> But, indeed, that's the sort of thing to check :)
[04:02] <tjaalton> updated the wiki
[04:03] <bryceh> wonder if stuff depending on xvfb will get confused
[04:04] <Sarvatt> yeah this is my xorg-edgers experience since xserver 1.5 bugging me, i've never seen an abi update handled correctly
[04:04] <Sarvatt> always some weird quirk in apt ordering screwing things up
[04:05] <Sarvatt> probably my own fault with crappy packaging or not packaging absolutely everything though
[04:07] <Sarvatt> by probably I mean guaranteed I guess, still worried about it :)
[04:07] <Sarvatt> the 1.8 transition in ubuntu didnt go well
[04:07] <Sarvatt> but was ok by 1.9
[04:08] <Sarvatt> 1.9 was in 10.10 and 1.8 was only stopgap during the dev cycle though
[04:12] <bryceh> tjaalton, versions-current now updated
[04:13] <bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/versions-current.html
[04:14] <Sarvatt> sucks about 6.14.3 ati :(
[04:15] <Sarvatt> new git snapshot?
[04:15] <tjaalton> bryceh: thanks!
[04:15] <bryceh> Sarvatt, yeah
[04:16] <tjaalton> oh, heh. as if they'll ever bump the minor release :)
[04:17] <Sarvatt> they will, 6.14.4, bet ya a beer at budapest :)
[04:17] <bryceh> we could ask them to do 6.15 for the lts
[04:17] <Sarvatt> oh thats micro
[04:17] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: that's patch release, or micro yeah
[04:17] <tjaalton> :)
[04:19] <Sarvatt> any point to going through that list yet?
[04:19] <Sarvatt> i was waiting for xserver 1.11
[04:19] <Sarvatt> only did libdrm
[04:20] <tjaalton> nah, stuff will get synced from testing, and the rest can wait for the server push
[04:20] <tjaalton> though I did upload wacom already
[04:20] <tjaalton> merges can be staged in git though
[04:20] <Sarvatt> rebuilds are a lot faster than syncs though thinking about it
[04:23] <bjsnider> why is it necessary to have nvidia provide xorg video abi?
[04:23] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: i wish i knew, i debated that one with tseliot since the start
[04:24] <bjsnider> nvidia doesn't even care what else is installed
[04:24] <Sarvatt> it works on multiple abi's, it's only useful during the development release when it might be updated to a new abi it doesnt support
[04:24] <Sarvatt> artifical limitations dont make sense to me
[04:25] <tjaalton> well, if we are always going to update the stack via a ppa in the future, maybe it is unnecessary to have the blobs provide it
[04:25] <Sarvatt> nvidia especially, they have new abi support publically at most a week or so after its out, the real lag is the distro upgrading the driver
[04:26] <tjaalton> though fglrx is always behind
[04:26] <Sarvatt> fglrx on the other hand is guaranteed 3 months
[04:26] <bjsnider> even if nvidia doesn't officially support an abi, it almost always works fine with ignoreabi
[04:26] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: yea
[04:26] <bjsnider> 3 months behind?
[04:26] <bjsnider> does it work anyway?
[04:58] <broder> re: apt mangling upgrades, that's probably because the thing that's not getting upgraded is marked as manually installed
[04:58] <broder> while everything else is auto installed
[04:58] <broder> so apt (unfortunately) concludes that you *clearly* meant to keep the manually installed thing, even if it means you lose the auto installed thing
[17:06] <Milos_SD> Is there a bug in ppa-purge ?
[17:07] <Milos_SD> it says that there are a lot of packages with unmet dependencies...
[17:07] <Milos_SD> and it wants to delete a lot of packages not from xorg-edgers ppa
[17:13] <ricotz> Milos_SD, i think ppa-purge has some problems handling multiarch and get confused by it
[17:14] <ricotz> tseliot, please upload fglrx :)
[17:14] <tseliot> ricotz: I'm working right now on some changes for the upstream fglrx but I'm afraid I won't make it today for the one in Ubuntu
[17:15] <tseliot> I'm sorry
[17:16] <ricotz> tseliot, hmm, if there are only problem regarding jockey could upload it somewhere where I can grab it?
[17:17] <tseliot> ricotz: I've fixed jockey but something else's come up today and I had to delay my work on fglrx
[17:18] <ricotz> tseliot, i see, so you dont have a "kind of working" source package at all?
[17:19] <tseliot> ricotz: no, sorry
[17:19] <tseliot> I only have an untested local branch
[17:19] <ricotz> tseliot, i cant test it myself, but i really like to push something to the edgers ppa
[17:20] <tseliot> ricotz: I know but can't we wait until Monday?
[17:21] <ricotz> tseliot, sure, if you think it will break the world it might better
[17:21] <tseliot> ricotz: it should. Also, I have yet to fix an issue with hybrid graphics...
[17:21] <ricotz> tseliot, alright, it is ok then
[17:22] <tseliot> ;)
[17:23] <ricotz> it would fit the cracky edgers ppa though :P
[17:23] <tseliot> heh


[04:41] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: hey, how should I deal with 'I don't like it anymore, I'm switching' comments?
[04:41] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: leave them there for now, we should probably have a discussion :)
[04:42] <JoseeAntonioR> ok :)
[07:46] <dholbach> good morning


[17:59]  * JanC wonders what "Stella Cmit Abra" is...
[19:26] <sarnold> belgian beer? czech beer?
[19:26] <sarnold> ooh ooh mixing a belgian beer with a czech beer. got it.


[06:10] <larsu> good morning!
[06:40] <mpt> “Unhandled Lockdown Error” would be a great name for a band
[07:10] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:16] <larsu> "I'm not an expert, but I don't think I need 114 instances of indicator-sound-service."
[07:17] <mpt> Oh dear, did the 115th one crash? That’s the one that plays the sound
[07:18] <larsu> haha
[07:18]  * larsu updates the counter inside indicator-sound service to make it go to 115
[07:21] <willcooke> o/
[07:21] <larsu> morning willcooke!
[07:22] <seb128> hey willcooke
[07:22] <larsu> no pitti today?
[07:22] <seb128> seems not...
[07:22] <seb128> nah, I miss the time where I had scrollbars
[07:22] <seb128> Laney, larsu!!!!
[07:23] <larsu> I was the first person to talk in here at 8:10 today, so I guess not :)
[07:23] <larsu> seb128: you have *no* scrollbars?
[07:23] <seb128> no
[07:23] <seb128> no thumb, no bar, no color, no handle
[07:23] <seb128> nothing
[07:23] <seb128> in gedit or nautilus
[07:23] <seb128> I do have the overshot effect if I scroll with the pad though
[07:24] <larsu> mitya57: I see the point of not wanting to make it slower, but it's producing incorrect results now...
[07:24] <seb128> the overshot effect is buggy btw
[07:24] <seb128> if I'm of the top of a nautilus view and try to scroll up, it displays fully in a non smooth way and stay there for like 3s
[07:25] <larsu> you should see a scrollbar when hovering the window
[07:26] <seb128> not happening
[07:26] <larsu> trackpad?
[07:26] <seb128> dell lattitude with trackpad and nibble
[07:26] <seb128> I use the nibble
[07:26] <seb128> but seems the same with the trackpad
[07:26] <larsu> do you have the new overlay-scrollbar package? (is that even uploaded yet?)
[07:26] <seb128> touchpad
[07:27] <seb128> I upgraded with the ppa which is in the topic
[07:27] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ww
[07:27] <seb128> that has a new o-s
[07:29] <larsu> weird, I'm not getting that yet
[07:30] <seb128> oh, it works after unsetting GTK_MODULES
[07:30] <seb128> nothing forced to uninstall o-s-gtk3 for me and I didn't restart my session so the env is still set
[07:30] <seb128> that seems to make o-s not work and gtk scrollbars bug
[07:30] <larsu> Laney fixed that in the MR - we're only loading the module for gtk2
[07:31] <seb128> k
[07:31] <larsu> dunno if we need to handle that case tbh
[07:31] <seb128> oh man, those scrollbars are not nice :-/
[07:31] <larsu> well, they're not themed yet
[07:31] <seb128> k
[07:31] <seb128> I hope they are better once themed, but atm it feels like quite an user regression :-/
[07:32] <seb128> they are width
[07:32] <larsu> we can make them look however you want
[07:32] <larsu> and actually I'd like some input. notadesigner
[07:32] <seb128> my first reaction is "thinner"
[07:32] <larsu> the only thing we're regressing on is that they're not outside the window
[07:32] <larsu> seb128: ya, definitely!
[07:33] <larsu> even Adwaita has them thinner ... and that's saying something ;)
[07:33] <seb128> also the fact that they are rounder at the top/bottom looks weird in e.g gedit
[07:34] <seb128> in nautilus as well in fact
[07:34] <seb128> it looks weird to have a circle against a line
[07:34] <seb128> imho it would be nicer to just have flat borders
[07:34] <larsu> or none if you ask me, android style
[07:34] <larsu> just the thumb
[07:35] <larsu> but then, nobody's asking me
[07:35] <seb128> can we do that?
[07:35] <seb128> mpt, do you think somebody from design could help us and give some recommendation on how new gtk scrollbars should look like?
[07:36] <mpt> ha ha
[07:36] <seb128> mpt, atm they are like on http://tinyurl.com/nhkn93v
[07:37] <larsu> seb128: I've asked for a theme update countless times. We're not getting it.
[07:37] <seb128> larsu, https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/08/zoomscrollbar.png looks much nicer
[07:37] <seb128> larsu, there is a difference between a theme update and UI recommendations
[07:38] <larsu> fair enough
[07:38] <seb128> like I guess a theme update would require work from an engineer
[07:38] <larsu> so does theming the scrollbars
[07:38] <seb128> where advising on UI details is a pure design thing
[07:38] <seb128> if they do the change
[07:39] <seb128> but it seemed you said you would be happy with them telling us what to do
[07:39] <seb128> like visual
[07:39] <seb128> even if they don't do the actual css changes
[07:39] <larsu> ya I would be, but they're not
[07:39] <seb128> larsu, I would start by doing what is on https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/08/zoomscrollbar.png with orange as color
[07:39] <seb128> that doesn't have the round corner issue
[07:39] <seb128> nor the width one
[07:39] <larsu> yes, that was my first plan as well
[07:39] <seb128> why is GTK making default widget look buggy?
[07:40] <seb128> just to punish their non GNOME users?!
[07:40] <larsu> this is our theme :)
[07:40] <seb128> we made scrollbars wider on purpose?
[07:40] <larsu> yes
[07:40] <seb128> oh, ok
[07:40] <seb128> why?!
[07:40] <larsu> I don't know :)
[07:40] <mpt> Surely not
[07:40] <larsu> it's old code
[07:40] <larsu> but it's in there
[07:41] <seb128> oh, ok
[07:41] <larsu> I guess for people that turn off o-s?
[07:41] <TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
[07:41] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[07:41] <seb128> let's delete scrollbar customizations then
[07:41] <larsu> seb128: default gtk is Adwaita now, regardless of if you're on GNOME or not
[07:41] <seb128> just change the color
[07:41] <Sweet5hark> moin
[07:41] <seb128> larsu, k, so it doesn't make sense we are keeping those old hacks
[07:41] <seb128> let's clean them out
[07:41] <seb128> less code ;-)
[07:41] <larsu> I agree
[07:42] <mpt> seb128, yes, just changing the background of the corners so that it is the same color as the trough border would be an improvement
[07:42] <larsu> mpt: no work has gone into theming those yet. All we did was turn off overlay-scrollbars
[07:42] <seb128> mpt, would the ones from https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/08/zoomscrollbar.png with orange instead of blue look fine to you?
[07:44] <mpt> larsu, then how come the thumb looks the same (e.g. three little grooves) as Ambiance/Radiance in 14.04 with overlay scrollbars uninstalled?
[07:44] <mpt> I’m pretty sure Ambiance+Radiance aren’t inheriting from some other theme there
[07:45] <mpt> seb128, I don’t understand what’s going on in that screenshot. Is the thumb getting *smaller* when you mouse over it?
[07:45] <mpt> I.e. what’s the difference between those three states?
[07:46] <seb128> larsu, ^ do you know?
[07:46] <larsu> mpt: because Ambiance/Radiance has code for theming them when you uninstall overlay-scrollbars...
[07:46] <mpt> larsu, so it still has that same theming in Wily, right?
[07:46] <larsu> yes
[07:47] <seb128> mpt, https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2013/08/05/scrolling-in-gtk/
[07:47] <larsu> mpt, seb128: no, these screenshots are misleading. It gets wider as you mouse-over it
[07:47] <larsu> GTK_THEME=Adwaita gedit to try them out
[07:48] <seb128> the thinner line is when you hold the click
[07:48] <seb128> it goes in autoscrolling mode
[07:48] <mpt> larsu, so we have exactly the same problem with the trough now as we did with the scrollbuttons before: pasty-grey crevices in each corner of the overall area.
[07:48] <seb128> or follow the mouse
[07:49] <larsu> mpt: I can make them #ff0000 if that helps visibility
[07:50] <mpt> larsu, you’re talking about the thumb. I’m talking about the crevices.
[07:51] <larsu> mpt: I don't understand. Which crevices do you mean?
[07:54] <larsu> mpt: where the background shines through between trough and the window border?
[07:56] <mpt> larsu, these bits: http://imgur.com/SvZ4Ezd
[07:57] <mpt> That’s what I thought seb128 was talking about with “<seb128> it looks weird to have a circle against a line”
[07:59] <larsu> mpt: ya, this is the window's background shining through because of the rounded corners. I agree with seb128 that we should flatten them
[08:02] <mpt> larsu, there are two ways to solve the problem: (1) square the corners or (2) fill them with something
[08:02] <mpt> I was suggesting a very simple approach to (2), just fill them with the same color as the scrollbar is already using for its border
[08:04] <mpt> though ideally they’d have their own 3-D appearance, like the thumb does, to make them look intentional
[08:06] <Laney> sup
[08:06] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[08:08] <larsu> mpt: hm, I think 3-D might make them look a bit off. They appear only when you're in the window or when swiping
[08:08] <larsu> morning Laney!
[08:09] <Laney> doing good thanks
[08:10] <Laney> I added a breaks to gtk
[08:10] <Laney> it's in a silo now, didn't update that ppa
[08:12] <seb128> so it would force uninstall o-s-gtk3?
[08:13] <Laney> nah it upgrades you to a version which doesn't set GTK_MODULES and doesn't depend on it
[08:13] <Laney> so autoremove should get rid of it
[08:14] <mpt> larsu, fair enough, but if that’s the rule, the whole scrollbar needs redesigning, not just the corners
[08:15] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I didn't restart my session though, so the env is still set and I've no scrollbars in my apps now
[08:15] <seb128> need to restart later ;-)
[08:15]  * seb128 doesn't want to close ongoing work though
[08:15] <larsu> mpt: tell me about it...
[09:29] <seb128> Laney, do you remember if in u-s-s we had/have a way to dynamically list or not plugins from the main grid?
[09:29] <Laney> yes we do
[09:29] <Laney> the battery plugin does it
[09:31] <seb128> thanks
[09:34] <Laney> what will you do
[09:34] <Laney> try to activate the s-i service and hide if that fails?
[09:36] <seb128> Laney, undecided yet, I'm pondering
[09:36] <seb128> 1. check for something that tells me s-i or snappy and hide in the second case, and change the depends to be | snappy-cli
[09:36] <seb128> 2. split the update panel in a new binary which has the depends and see that only in touch
[09:37] <seb128> 2. makes more sense if we plan to write a new panel for snappy updates
[09:38] <seb128> unsure yet, the backend is not going to have a lot on common but maybe the UI can be reused
[09:38] <seb128> or maybe it makes more sense to just start fresh
[09:38] <Laney> larsu: does (g)dbus have any way of asking 'could I activate this name' without actually activating it?
[09:38] <Laney> probably the existing one will get thrown away
[09:38] <Laney> I would have thought
[09:38] <Laney> if snappy it just a completely different thing
[09:39] <Laney> s/it/is/
[09:39] <seb128> the backend at least
[09:39] <seb128> the UI is lilely to stay the same
[09:39] <larsu> Laney: yes: gdbus call -e --dest org.freedesktop.DBus --object-path / --method org.freedesktop.DBus.ListActivatableNames
[09:39] <seb128> but then it's not  a complex bit to copy over
[09:39] <Laney> ah nice
[09:40] <Laney> might be good to use that ^ to tell if system-image is there
[09:40] <larsu> Laney: well, that doesn't do exactly what you want, but there's nothing for individual names
[09:40] <larsu> Laney: other than looking in /usr/share/dbus-1/services
[09:40] <Laney> and yes, I think the UI has some complex state module so is going to be easier to do it over
[09:40] <Laney> larsu: why doesn't it?
[09:41] <larsu> Laney: hm?
[09:41] <larsu> why doesn't it what
[09:43] <Laney> why doesn't it do what we want?
[09:44] <larsu> it gives you a list of activatable names
[09:44] <larsu> doesn't tell you if a specific name is activatable
[09:44] <larsu> of course, you can find out from the liest
[09:45] <larsu> *list. I can't type today. drunk from the smoothie maybe?
[09:45] <Laney> liszt
[09:45] <Laney> I'm missing a piece of knowledge here
[09:45] <seb128> larsu, are you following dholbach on that green smoothie diet?
[09:45] <larsu> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BJDNw7o6so
[09:45] <larsu> seb128: urgh, no
[09:46] <seb128> k, was wondering :-)
[09:46]  * larsu doesn't like green stuff in smoothies
[09:46] <larsu> unless kiwi
[09:46] <seb128> I see
[09:46] <Laney> nice tune
[09:46] <larsu> phoenix!
[09:46] <larsu> Laney: what are you missing?
[09:47] <Laney> 04/06 10:44:30 <larsu> it gives you a list of activatable names
[09:47] <Laney> 04/06 10:44:43 <larsu> doesn't tell you if a specific name is activatable
[09:47] <Laney> this concept
[09:47] <larsu> you asked for something like IsThisNameActivatable("com.something")
[09:47] <Laney> ya
[09:47] <larsu> but that doesn't exist. What does exist is ListActivatableNames()
[09:47] <Laney> you mean that we have to search the list?
[09:47] <larsu> yes
[09:48] <Laney> oh right
[09:48] <Laney> I get that :P
[09:48] <Laney> I thought that you were trying to tell me about some weird dbus thing
[09:48] <larsu> sorry if that wasn't clear. Just wanted to make the small point that my answer wasn't exactly what you were looking for
[09:48] <Laney> like you can't find out if it is activatable until you actually attempt to activate it
[09:48] <Laney> just that it /might/ be
[09:48] <larsu> no, I think it has to be
[09:48] <larsu> if it's in that list
[09:49] <Laney> nod
[09:49] <larsu> by ... err ... "definition"
[09:49] <seb128> Laney, I'm just going to look for the file on disk
[09:49] <larsu> but at least I got to listen to some phoenix because of this
[09:49] <Laney> haha
[09:49] <Laney> oh man :'(
[09:49] <Laney> this is one of those laney times
[09:50] <larsu> seb128: look into everywhere that's in $XDG_DATA_DIRS
[09:50] <larsu> actually that seems wrong
[09:50] <larsu> that var doesn't contain my .local/share
[09:50] <larsu> but dbus definitely activates stuff for me from there
[09:51] <larsu> oh! that's a defined fallback
[09:51] <larsu> neat
[10:02] <seb128> larsu, no, just for /etc/dbus-1/system.d/com.canonical.SystemImage.conf
[10:02] <seb128> it's basically a "is that package installed"
[10:02] <seb128> or /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/com.canonical.SystemImage.service
[10:05] <seb128> Laney, the way you did it for battery seems to be from the battery plugin ... does it mean we have to load the backend on the main view only to get the dynamic visibility?
[10:08] <Laney> seb128: it's a different "plugin"
[10:08] <Laney> see plugins/battery/plugin - this isn't the full panel
[10:08] <Laney> (great naming)
[10:08] <seb128> Laney, so I would need to do a different "plugin" for system-updates only to deal with the visibility?
[10:09] <seb128> I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just special case that in the visibility main function
[10:09] <Laney> yeah, it's quite minimal though
[10:09] <Laney> ...
[10:10] <seb128> was that a "..." = "no comment", like in reaction to "lets do a hack"?
[10:11] <Laney> indeed
[10:11] <Laney> you could convince kenvandine though and ignore me ;-)
[10:11] <seb128> well, I don't think it makes sense to have plugins added for each panel just to tweak the visiblity
[10:11] <seb128> need a better way ;-)
[10:11] <seb128> need to go for some erands/get food, biab, going to think about it while walking
[10:12] <Laney> then come up with a better way
[10:12] <Laney> the plugins should handle this themselves
[10:12] <Laney> one way or another - for example you could add a new key into the .pluginfile
[10:12] <Laney> VisibleIf : DbusActivatable:...
[10:12] <Laney> FileExists: ...
[10:21] <darkxst> Laney, what happened to your gtk upload? anyway mutter and shell are queued up in proposed, so let it through whenever
[10:22] <Laney> It's in a CI train silo because I'm uploading it with the overlay scrollbars
[10:22] <Laney> will go in shortly
[10:25] <darkxst> Laney, np, not concerned about delays really, was just letting you know shell was ready really
[10:48] <Laney> darkxst: done
[10:48] <Laney> enjoy your breakage!
[10:50] <darkxst> Laney, pretty sure I avoided major breakage with the shell update, so should be ok
[10:50] <Laney> I mean my breakage really :)
[11:08] <darkxst> Laney, ha ok
[11:11] <Laney> it is too nice to be inside
[11:11]  * Laney relocates
[11:13]  * Laney goes blind in a good way
[11:13]  * larsu had a nightmare about going blind
[11:14] <willcooke> this is a good plan Laney.  I think a lunch break is called for in the sunshine...
[11:14] <Laney> woah you just reminded me
[11:14] <willcooke> food?
[11:14] <Laney> I had one last night where I lost half of both of my ring fingers
[11:14] <willcooke> oh
[11:14] <willcooke> ok then
[11:14]  * willcooke backs slowly away
[11:14] <Laney> was obviously most concerned about not being able to climb
[11:14] <willcooke> or type
[11:14] <Laney> good nightmare would have again
[11:15] <larsu> obviously
[11:15] <larsu> haha
[11:15] <larsu> willcooke: went for a run in the sun. Can recommend. Now eating a carrot instead of lunch
[11:15] <larsu> notsurehowthathappenend
[11:17] <willcooke> :D
[11:45] <Laney> larsu: do you have a version of your totem menubar patch on top of 3.14?
[11:46] <larsu> Laney: nope. Want one?
[11:46] <Laney> would be good
[11:46] <Laney> it's got some conflicts
[11:46] <larsu> why not just take 3.16?
[11:47] <Laney> need that to SRU it
[11:47] <darkxst> or my original 3.14 patches?
[11:47] <Laney> it's a fix to those
[11:48] <darkxst> oh ok
[11:48] <larsu> Laney: fixing some food right now, but will do it right after
[11:49] <Laney> darkxst: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/1447224
[11:50] <Laney> larsu: actually it might be easy to resolve them, let me try
[11:55] <darkxst> Laney, I can't track every single bug in the ubuntu sphere
[11:57] <Laney> I didn't ask you to
[11:57] <Laney> we were just fixing it
[12:01] <darkxst> ok
[12:11] <larsu> Laney: let me know if you need help
[12:12] <Laney> sure, test building atm
[12:14]  * darkxst needs to sleep. night all
[12:15] <Laney> nn
[12:15] <larsu> night
[12:56] <kenvandine> seb128, Laney: i like the idea of extending the plugin settings file, VisibleIf could be very useful
[12:57] <Laney> would be good to abstract some common patterns if they might be used more in future
[12:57] <Laney> like if we expect applications to plug in there
[13:34] <Laney> larsu: so my backport doesn't work
[13:34] <Laney> also if I run from master on that Sintel video I don't get any languages in the menu
[13:34] <Laney> and because the app menu is gone it's not possible to change languages in full screen
[13:34] <larsu> Laney: yes, I have plans for that, but gotta run now (will look at it later)
[13:35] <Laney> ok thanks!
[13:35] <Laney> subtitles do work on master & trad menu though
[13:36] <Laney> ah wait, maybe it's just that this video doesn't have any languages
[13:36] <Laney> in that case it might be an idea to disable the menu item or otherwise indicate that
[13:36] <Laney> currently just shows an empty menu (i.e. a line)
[13:50] <maxb> Hi. I'm using gitg in vivid, and I can't seem to find its preferences dialog. I'm suspicious it's something to do with the ubuntu menuproxy stuff, but setting UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 doesn't seem to fix things.
[13:50] <maxb> Are there any related suggestions about troubleshooting inaccessible menus that are configured in an application's vala code via Gtk.Applicationn.add_action_entries ?
[13:51] <maxb> Something to do with 'application' vs. 'window' menus, and these not being well translated into Unity?
[14:11] <Laney> maxb: Weird!
[14:12] <maxb> yes
[14:12] <Laney> It breaks for me with in-app menus  but works without although it is called "Unknown Application Name" then
[14:12] <maxb> Hmm, so running 'UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 gitg' actually gives you a visibly different display, then?
[14:12] <Laney> no
[14:12] <maxb> ph
[14:12] <Laney> I go to Appearance in the control centre and then Behaviour
[14:13] <Laney> and change it to In the menu bar
[14:13]  * maxb tries that
[14:13] <Laney> then it's back in the global menu and works
[14:13] <Laney> I guess it's LIM being broken with header bars
[14:13] <maxb> wait, what, now it's working
[14:14] <maxb> ish
[14:14] <maxb> My setting was already 'in the menu bar'
[14:14] <maxb> However, this time I actually git some entries dropping down from the 'gitg' menu
[14:15] <maxb> I was getting a zero-item menu before
[14:15] <Laney> If you can reproduce then T_revinho is the Unity guy to talk to
[14:15] <maxb> Though, now I seem to have a different bug, as as soon as I clicked on a checkbox, it went into a tight-loop logging Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_get_parent: assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
[14:16] <maxb> Ah
[14:17] <maxb> I've figured out one portion of the confusion. I was using sudo to run gitg on /etc
[14:17] <maxb> In retrospect it is 'obvious' how that could break the integration
[14:17]  * maxb will pause, reconsider, and attempt to isolate one underlying issue at a time
[14:19] <maxb> (I also have an issue that I can't seem to rebuild vivid's gitg source package on vivid, with build-depends installed - it dies with error: Package `ggit-1.0' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories )
[14:34] <seb128> kenvandine, Laney, what do you think about http://paste.ubuntu.com/11566702/ ?
[14:35] <kenvandine> seb128, pretty good
[14:36] <kenvandine> i'd kind of like it to handle cases of than file
[14:36] <seb128> other than file you mean?
[14:36] <kenvandine> like gsettings key?
[14:36] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:36] <kenvandine> so visible-if-file-exits
[14:37] <kenvandine> visible-if-settings-key
[14:37] <kenvandine> etc
[14:37] <seb128> k
[14:37] <seb128> I can rename it
[14:37] <kenvandine> just a though
[14:37] <kenvandine> thought
[14:37] <kenvandine> i'd imagine we might find other cases like that, so yeah renaming it would be more concise
[14:37] <kenvandine> unless we made it a dict
[14:38] <kenvandine> visible-if-cond ?
[14:38] <kenvandine> then file: "some/path/to/file"
[14:38] <kenvandine> visible-if-condition maybe
[14:38] <seb128> I'm still undecided if we should have keys
[14:39] <kenvandine> or just visible-if
[14:39] <seb128> we currently have a "has-dynamic-visibility: boolean value, telling whether the plugin visibility can be determined by the plugin itself only "
[14:39] <kenvandine> yeah, i don't love that
[14:39] <kenvandine> it means the plugin has to load before deciding
[14:39] <seb128> right
[14:39] <kenvandine> which caused a ton of headache making it faster
[14:39] <seb128> also it means UI builds and then change/flickers
[14:39] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:40] <kenvandine> i spent a bunch of time on that in DC
[14:40] <seb128> should I just submit with the rename?
[14:40] <seb128> I don't want to spend much time on that now
[14:40] <seb128> just unblock the snappy image
[14:40] <kenvandine> what do you think of the idea of a dict?
[14:40] <seb128> extra parsing to do
[14:40] <kenvandine> ok
[14:41] <kenvandine> just submit with the rename :)
[14:41] <seb128> thanks
[14:41] <seb128> we can rename/change it later for a dict or shell commands return value or something
[14:41] <kenvandine> ok
[14:47] <cyphermox> seb128: can we talk about bluez 5 ?
[14:47] <seb128> cyphermox, sure
[14:47] <cyphermox> have you heard anything / plans to move to it this cycle finally?
[14:47] <cyphermox> I'm just asking out of interest :)
[14:53] <seb128> cyphermox, not more than previous cycle
[14:53] <seb128> check with rsalveti I guess
[14:53] <cyphermox> ok
[14:53] <seb128> the phone guys were still looking at it before vivid
[14:53] <cyphermox> thanks
[14:53] <seb128> yw!
[14:54] <cyphermox> yeah.. sad that it takes so long to get back to 2015
[14:54] <cyphermox> soon we'll be at the point where more people are going to complain that their dynamically pairing mice don't work well, and stuff like that. or want BLE
[14:55] <rsalveti> cyphermox: there is ongoing conversations to get this on track quite soon actually
[14:55] <cyphermox> ok
[14:55] <rsalveti> we found out we have aosp based trees with the required kernel work already
[14:55] <seb128> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/visible-file-exists/+merge/261096
[14:55] <rsalveti> the main blocker atm is porting the patches for krillin
[14:55] <rsalveti> but we might have a 3.10 kernel for krillin soon
[14:55] <rsalveti> which would help quite a bit
[14:55] <cyphermox> ok
[14:56] <rsalveti> cyphermox: ping john-mcaleely if you want to know more, he was on top of it
[14:56] <rsalveti> (or should be soon)
[14:56]  * rsalveti is mostly involved with snappy atm
[14:56] <cyphermox> rsalveti: thanks, that's really all I wanted to know
[14:56] <rsalveti> cool
[18:09] <willcooke> g'night


[08:22] <vish> jbicha: why is gksu nautilus better than gksudo nautilus ? (curious)
[08:23] <vish> (noticed it in your docs update)
[08:25] <jbicha> um, I read the man page and gksu seemed smarter
[08:25] <jbicha> it is at least shhorter
[08:25] <jbicha> shorter
[08:34] <vish> jbicha: hmm, the only benefit i see is that gksu offers a prompt if we dont specify a command
[08:35] <vish> but we do mention nautilus here..
[08:36] <jbicha> vish: yeah they basically do the same thing, but one's shorter
[08:37] <jbicha> vish: I'm actually a bit surprised you noticed the change since it's not been committed yet
[08:37] <vish> ;)
[08:38] <vish> jbicha: shorter ;p , i think sudo is more preferable since the sudoers file and all
[08:38] <jbicha> vish: you mean you think they don't do the same thing?
[08:39] <vish> jbicha: /etc/sudoers is used by sudo, but i dont think su user it, a lot of options are set there..
[08:40] <vish> s/user/users
[08:40] <vish> err, uses*
[08:40] <micahg> jbicha: we should be using gksudo since we don't encourage running as root
[08:41] <jbicha> but sudo is root and su uses /etc/sudoers
[08:43] <vish> su is root but sudo can specify which users can be root
[08:43] <micahg> sudo runs a single command as root, su leaves you in a root shell
[08:44] <jbicha> micahg: do you agree that gksudo is better?
[08:46] <jbicha> http://askubuntu.com/questions/21033/what-is-the-difference-between-gksudo-and-gksu
[08:48] <micahg> yeah, it seems like I have the gconf key set, idk if that's the default or not though, with that key set, there's no practical difference unless you use other flags
[08:50] <micahg> so, while practically there is no difference, people might wonder about it
[09:01] <vish> hmm, looks like we dont have the package gksudo??!! but there is kdesudo
[09:02] <vish> maybe the symlink is because it aint packaged? /me looks deeper
[09:02] <micahg> vish: it's all provided by gksu
[09:02] <vish> oh!
[09:03] <micahg> vish: both backends are provided by libgksu
[09:03] <micahg> err, both backends can be used by libgksu
[09:03] <vish> yea, seems so.
[09:08] <vish> ah ha! while it is a symlink, they do different things
[09:08] <vish> gksu != gksudp
[09:08] <vish> gksudo*
[09:11] <vish> yea, the gconf set as sudo seems to be the default.. i have the same thing here..
[09:12] <micahg> vish: yeah, which makes them effectively equal by default
[09:13] <vish>  yea, equal but it is not really su , hence the users will wonder as you say :D
[09:40] <padv> Hello, I just saw that my membership for ubuntu-bugcontrol expired, can somebody reactivate?
[09:40] <padv> wi padv
[09:41] <padv> my lp id is pascal-devuyst
[09:47] <vish> bdmurray, hggdh ^
[13:02] <njin> hello, there's someone using kubuntu'
[13:03] <njin> with encryption i don't have the request for the passphrase
[13:03] <njin> at the first boot
[13:05] <Abhijit> njin, support in #ubuntu
[13:05] <njin> Abhijit: thanks i'm testing
[13:06] <njin> and this is a bug that i've to open
[13:06] <njin> but at wich package assign ?
[13:07] <njin> it works in gnome and not in kde
[13:07] <njin> i'm going to look in ubuntu chan
[13:34] <akshatj> njin, ask in #kubuntu-devel , maybe they will know
[18:24] <vish> !away | tubadaz
[18:24] <ubot4> tubadaz: Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also «/msg ubottu Guidelines»
[19:27] <njin> bg
[20:08] <cjae> Has this ever been fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+bug/496739
[20:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 496739 in avidemux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Encoding MKV green screen (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged]
[20:09] <cjae> because I am using 10.10 and it still seems to be there


[00:25] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: txn pruning improvements http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1741/
[00:38] <waigani> thumper, axw: storage worker fix: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1742/
[00:39] <waigani> I tested 1.23, 1.24, 1.25 - bug is only in 1.24 and 1.25
[00:39] <wallyworld> menn0: done
[00:45] <menn0> wallyworld: thank you. you're a review machine.
[00:46] <wallyworld> sometimes
[00:49] <anastasiamac> menn0: wallyworld is always
[01:05] <axw> waigani: ah, so the state that the agent opens isn't scoped. thanks for looking at that
[01:06] <thumper> waigani: shipit
[01:37] <waigani> thumper, axw thanks - I'll land in 1.24 now and follow up in 1.25
[01:37] <thumper> ack
[01:37] <thumper> waigani: I was just looking at my local machine-0.log wondering why it was 16 meg already
[01:37] <thumper> waigani: was due to the worker constantly restarting in two environments :-)
[01:38] <natefinch-afk> katco: the CI test is working.  It actually inadvertently discovered a bug in lumberjack, due to a combination of how I had to do one of the tests and the fact that destroying the local environment leaves logs behind.
[01:38] <thumper> natefinch-afk: funny how CI tests find bugs eh?
[01:38] <waigani> thumper: ha
[01:40] <natefinch> thumper: yep.  really just a huge coincidence in how everything came together, but I'm certainly glad to find the bug, even if it is a pretty edge case.
[01:41] <natefinch> for those curious: https://github.com/natefinch/lumberjack/issues/12
[01:47] <natefinch> I love how sloppy I can be and let gofmt clean everything up for me.  Saves me a ton of time fiddling with indenting etc
[01:47] <waigani> thumper: hosted upgrades:  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1639/ - needs a follow up review (not urgent, I've found another bug to look into)
[01:48] <axw> natefinch: I find I'm much worse about writing in other languages because of that now :/
[01:48] <natefinch> axw: haha yep
[01:49] <waigani> natefinch: +1 if it doesn't format I know I've got a syntax error somewhere, that's been handy too
[01:50] <natefinch> waigani: yep... and in Sublime, if you're using gosublime it'll put a dot next to the line that is invalid
[01:51] <waigani> natefinch: true! too easy :)
[01:56] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper : a quick one before the meeting? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1743/
[01:56] <menn0> this is the final bit of the txn pruning work (for 1.22 at least)
[01:56]  * thumper looks
[01:57] <thumper> menn0: if there was no previous, how long does it wait?
[01:58] <thumper> menn0: also, what about those long running ones with 500k transactions pruned
[01:58] <menn0> thumper: that was all in the PR for juju/txn...
[01:58] <menn0> thumper: pruning will first be checked 2 hrs after jujud startup
[01:58] <menn0> thumper: if there is no record of a previous prune, then pruning happens
[01:58] <thumper> k
[01:58] <thumper> well, all that can be tweaked later if necessary
[01:59] <menn0> thumper: there after it only happens when necessary
[01:59] <menn0> thumper: where necessary at the moment means "txn count has doubled since last prune"
[01:59] <thumper> right, just considering the pathalogical cases
[02:00] <menn0> thumper: so for small envs it'll probably never happen
[02:00] <menn0> thumper: or very infrequently
[02:00] <menn0> thumper: for the currently huge envs, they'll have a massive prune the first time around but should then be fairly infrequent
[02:01] <menn0> thumper: there's logging of the txn counts etc in juju/txn each time MaybePruneTransactions is called
[02:25] <natefinch> super quick review anyone?  Just updating dependencies.tsv to include the bugfix I just made to lumberjack: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1744/diff/#
[02:26] <natefinch> davecheney: thanks
[02:27] <thumper> axw: machine-0: 2015-05-21 02:26:15 ERROR juju.worker.diskmanager lsblk.go:111 error checking if "sr0" is in use: open /dev/sr0: no medium found
[02:27] <thumper> axw: should I be worried?
[02:27] <axw> thumper: have you pulled trunk lately? that should be fixed a couple of days ago
[02:28] <thumper> axw: no, using jes-cli, behind trunk by a week or two
[02:28] <thumper> axw: good to hear it is fixed though
[02:28] <thumper> I'll merge master soonish
[02:28] <axw> ok, good to know it's probably not still broken :)
[02:29] <perrito666> feature branches feel a bit like the explanation of time travel by the doc to marty
[02:30] <perrito666> in axw and my master is fixed, but in your version of master it is still borken
[02:30] <axw> just need to get the almanac off biff and it'll be OK
[03:04] <natefinch> gah.... just realized my CI test won't work on vivid because it assumes we're using upstart.  le sigh
[03:09]  * natefinch reboots to see if he can get his lxc containers to stop getting stuck for no reason
[03:19] <natefinch> heh... I bet this is that CI blocker that is hosing tip.... let's see if 1.24 works....  yep, that was it.
[03:20]  * natefinch waits for his CI test to write 1.8 GB of data to disk
[03:20]  * natefinch does a little dance
[03:20] <natefinch> success!
[03:23] <natefinch> wallyworld: you around?
[03:23] <wallyworld> yeah
[03:24] <natefinch> wallyworld: there's no docs on status-set on jujucharms
[03:24] <wallyworld> i gave doc to nic
[03:24] <wallyworld> ages ago
[03:24] <natefinch> wallyworld: oh, huh, ok.  I'll bug him then.
[03:24] <wallyworld> ball is in his court
[03:24] <natefinch> evilnickveitch: ^^
[03:25] <wallyworld> not enough hours in the day - we need more doc people
[03:25] <wallyworld> like 2 or 3
[03:25] <natefinch> yep
[03:26] <davecheney> thumper: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11256308/
[03:26] <davecheney> not terrible
[03:26] <davecheney> but some important ones to fix
[04:00] <thumper> davecheney: ack
[04:00]  * thumper tries to work out where to add this test...
[04:03] <cherylj> hey davecheney, quick question for you on your review - I'm not clear how the test case I've added is a race.  We're not actually starting the unit agent, we're just invoking its start method directly.  Is there something I'm missing?
[04:08] <thumper> I wish git stash worked more like bzr shelve
[04:09] <natefinch> what's the difference?
[04:49] <davecheney> cherylj: maybe i was mistaken
[04:50] <davecheney> normally when patch value is used, it's vbecause it's changing the value of a thing that will run in another goroutine
[06:38] <axw> wallyworld: FYI, http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1751/
[06:38] <wallyworld> looking
[06:51] <axw> ericsnow: the GitHub links in RB seem to be messed up now (looks like unrendered markdown links). did you change something?
[06:53] <axw> wallyworld: I'm going to look at tagging volumes now, since if we don't tag them we won't later be able to list them
[06:54] <wallyworld> axw: yep, sounds great
[06:54] <axw> wallyworld: after that I'll look at persistent volume deletion unless you think there's something more important
[06:54] <wallyworld> axw: i need to go over our cards, we can talk tomorrow
[06:55] <axw> ok
[06:55] <wallyworld> but if you get done before we talk, then vol deletion sounds good
[07:18] <wallyworld> axw: i think the other good card would be storage reattachment?
[07:18] <wallyworld> maybe before volume deletion?
[07:30] <axw> wallyworld: ok
[07:32] <dimitern> voidspace, hey there
[07:32] <dimitern> voidspace, i'm in the hangout
[07:34] <voidspace> dimitern: omw
[07:55] <mfoord> dimitern: and back...
[07:55] <mfoord> dimitern: need to reconfigure virt-manager before I try that again...
[07:55] <TheMue> morning o/
[07:55] <mfoord> TheMue: o/
[07:56] <dimitern> :) ok
[07:56] <dimitern> morning TheMue
[07:56] <TheMue> mfoord: no voidspace today?
[07:56] <mfoord> TheMue: heh
[07:56] <mfoord> TheMue: I had to force kill my machine - virt-manager wouldn't release the mouse and keyboard
[07:56] <dimitern> aaargh.. RB hates me today
[07:56] <dimitern> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/2392 - reviewers welcome
[07:56] <TheMue> mfoord: ah, ok
[07:57]  * TheMue starts the day with a review
[08:32] <TheMue> dimitern: reviewed
[08:33] <dimitern> TheMue, ta!
[08:34] <TheMue> dimitern: I like the proper use of LXC... instead of Lxc... ;)
[09:00] <mfoord> dooferlad: TheMue: we're going to be a few minutes late to standup - in another meeting
[09:00] <mfoord> dooferlad: TheMue: that is dimitern and I
[09:00] <TheMue> ok
[09:05] <dimitern> mfoord, when you're ready
[09:05] <mfoord> dimitern: TheMue: dooferlad: I'd like to grab a drink
[09:05] <mfoord> 5 mins
[09:09] <mfoord> TheMue: dooferlad: dimitern: right, ready
[09:10] <TheMue> mfoord: we're in
[09:10] <mfoord> omw
[10:55] <jam> menn0: about the pruning changes, you're not tracking the history of successful GC runs and how much they pruned?
[10:55] <jam> You just overwrite 'last' each time
[10:56] <menn0> jam: yep, that's intentional
[10:56] <menn0> jam: I thought we decided it wasn't that important
[10:57] <jam> menn0: I don't think it is critical, but I do think when adding something new like this being able to see how its working is pretty useful.
[10:57] <menn0> jam: well there's still the logs
[10:58] <jam> menn0: unless they have DEBUG logging on and it only captures 5hrs before it rotates.
[10:58] <menn0> jam: sure
[10:59] <menn0> jam: if you feel strongly about it i can change it
[11:02] <jam> menn0: I feel like having that information isn't going to be an OPs problem unless we have something else that's really wrong, and would give us some feedback as to how GC is working in the wild.
[11:08] <menn0> jam: i see your point
[11:10] <menn0> jam: i'll try and get something in tomorrow (it's late here)
[11:11] <jam> menn0: rest well
[11:11] <menn0> jam: i guess you also want the start timestamp and the start txn count? :)
[11:11] <jam> menn0: yeah, so we know Why we tried to run GC, how much GC helped, and how long GC took to run.
[11:11] <menn0> jam: what about the issue of the txns.prune collection growing forever?
[11:11] <menn0> jam: I guess the growth rate is pretty small
[11:11] <jam> menn0: if it grows by 1 record every 2 weeks, and that record is 200bytes in size
[11:12] <jam> we consume 1MB in...
[11:12] <jam> menn0: 192 years
[11:12] <jam> menn0: I can live with that growth rate.
[11:13] <menn0> jam: hmmm I don't know... :)
[11:46] <wallyworld> jam: did you have an opinion on the latest emails re: relation status?
[11:49] <jam> wallyworld: I'll reply, I don't have particularly strong feelings, nor was I in the conversations in Nuremberg
[11:59] <wallyworld> jam: np, i like your input because 99.99999% of the time you are usually right on the money with what should be done :-)
[12:58] <dimitern> reviewers, please have a look at http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1756/ - fixes bug 1456989 for 1.24
[12:58] <mup> Bug #1456989: cloud-init 0.6.3 on precise generates invalid apt-get install command line <cloud-init> <precise> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged by dimitern> <juju-core 1.24:In Progress by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456989>
[13:35] <natefinch> linux peeps... I'm trying to set gopath in my install hook... but nothing seems to work.. anyone have any ideas on how to do this?  I tried echo "export GOPATH=$HOME" >> .bashrc  (and same to .profile).... no matter what I do, "go get ..." running in my start hook always says GOPATH not set.
[13:35] <natefinch> (er sorry, that's ~/.bashrc of course)
[13:36] <perrito666> natefinch: I am not sure .bashrc is used for the hooks env
[13:36] <tvansteenburgh> are you sourcing the file after you do that?
[13:37] <natefinch> tvansteenburgh: can I usefully source a file from inside a hook script?
[13:37] <perrito666> natefinch: also, when you speak of your ~ where exactly is that?
[13:37] <perrito666> natefinch: yes, you can, it is a shell after all
[13:38] <dimitern> mfoord, dooferlad, TheMue ^^
[13:38] <dimitern> (the review I posted a while ago)
[13:38] <TheMue> dimitern: ic, will review
[13:38] <natefinch> perrito666: I dunno... where-ever it is.  I presume ~ is the same for the user is running every hook
[13:38] <dimitern> TheMue, thanks!
[13:39] <perrito666> ah you are doing that IN the hook, while running it
[13:39] <perrito666> natefinch: why dont you just run the export?
[13:40] <natefinch> perrito666: it doesn't work if I just export it
[13:40] <tvansteenburgh> he needs it in a later hook right?
[13:40] <perrito666> natefinch: that is... wrong somehow
[13:40] <natefinch> perrito666: go get <thingy> says "no GOPATH set"
[13:40] <perrito666> natefinch: ahhhhhhhh
[13:40] <natefinch> What I want is a working version of this as my install script: yes, what I want is for my
[13:40] <natefinch> er http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11264398/
[13:40] <natefinch> however the hell you make that work right
[13:41] <perrito666> natefinch: what is HOME?
[13:41] <perrito666> I mean, what exactly does it point to?
[13:41] <perrito666> that you just did there should work for your current shell and its forks iirc
[13:41] <natefinch> ok, I'll test it
[13:42] <perrito666> natefinch: but then again, also exporting it
[13:42] <perrito666> natefinch: assuming you have access to write the actual home of the user, you are tainting the machine
[13:42] <natefinch> exporting it definitely does not work
[13:42] <perrito666> natefinch: ok are you inside the hook tmux?
[13:43] <dooferlad> dimitern: *click*
[13:43] <perrito666> if so pastebin env
[13:43] <perrito666> natefinch: you can also GOPATH=/what/ever go get blah
[13:43] <natefinch> perrito666: hang on, let me rerun things with the new install script
[13:43] <natefinch> perrito666: that doesn't work either
[13:43] <natefinch> perrito666: I think it's forking processes or something that somehow are not getting the root process' env
[13:43] <perrito666> natefinch: then there definitely is something wrong there
[13:43] <natefinch> go get is, that is
[13:44] <perrito666> yes
[13:44] <perrito666> but forking a process should get the exported vars
[13:44] <perrito666> its like the only good reason to export
[13:44] <natefinch> haa well, $HOME is nothing, which is fantastic
[13:44] <natefinch> maybe that's the problem
[13:45] <perrito666> natefinch: it is appropriate, you are in a chrooted env most likely
[13:45] <dimitern> dooferlad, thanks! any reason not to check Ship it ?
[13:45] <perrito666> natefinch: you have superpowers though, you can use the system gopath
[13:46] <dooferlad> dimitern: mostly beause I don't have those powers. I haven't graduated, so I try not to.
[13:46] <dimitern> dooferlad, well, you could still express intent :)
[13:46] <dooferlad> dimitern: OK, will do next time!
[13:48] <natefinch> perrito666: ok, so I guess it was the fact that I was setting GOPATH to $HOME which was nothing... setting it to /home/ubuntu works fine
[13:49] <perrito666> natefinch: and makes your charm also ubuntu bound
[13:49] <TheMue> dimitern: reviewed
[13:49] <perrito666> natefinch: just use /go
[13:49] <natefinch> perrito666: k
[13:49] <perrito666> natefinch: or iirc /usr/shar/go?
[13:50] <perrito666> I never remember but there is a proper place for those things
[14:06] <dimitern> TheMue, thanks
[14:10] <TheMue> dimitern: only thought that it could make sense to test cloudinit.New() for all releases
[14:11] <dimitern> TheMue, it's tested in other places
[14:11] <TheMue> dimitern: ah, fine
[14:29] <katco> wwitzel3: ericsnow: natefinch
[14:29] <katco> sorry internet is being flaky the past few days
[14:30] <wwitzel3> katco: no worries
[14:30] <ericsnow> katco: np, we basically finished after you left
[14:30] <ericsnow> katco: I believe natefinch was going to ask about the blog :)
[14:39] <katco> i swear to god if this lady tells me one more time i have to power cycle my router i'm going to throw this phone.
[14:40] <perrito666> katco: but have you?
[14:40] <cherylj> ha, that's the worst.  Hang in there, katco :)
[14:41] <cherylj> I remember calling the "help desk" while I was at IBM and them not understanding when I told them I don' t have a start button because I'm using linux.
[14:41] <perrito666> the only good thing about my isp is that it is easy to know when there is a problem outside your immediate network, they just dont answer your call until its fixed
[14:42] <perrito666> cherylj: they are quite ok with that here, they tell you the command in linux to diagnose the network
[14:42] <perrito666> the people installing the connection are even cool with doing so in a computer running ubuntu, which is surprising
[14:42] <perrito666> they still require for you to have a computer with an ethernet por though, which is usually a problem around here
[14:44] <perrito666> katco: just mtr to google and see if you are dying before leaving the gw or after
[14:46] <katco> perrito666: that's exactly what i was doing
[14:47] <katco> perrito666: unfortunately, tier 1 lady said that there's no other way to troubleshoot the situation than to "bypass your router"
[14:48] <perrito666> katco: and by router they mean you r home one, not the one provided by them right?
[14:48] <katco> perrito666: yeah, not the modem
[14:49] <katco> perrito666: she didn't understand i can't just change my entire network to wait for the internet to go out again
[14:49]  * katco is just so frustrated
[14:49] <perrito666> katco: cant you just ssh into your router?
[14:50] <katco> perrito666: i can do lots of things, but it won't solve a problem in their network
[14:50] <perrito666> katco: lol
[14:50] <perrito666> if the problem its in their network it will solve itself eventually
[14:51] <katco> perrito666: yeah, usually i ride these out, but it's been dropping me pretty frequently the past few days
[14:51] <perrito666> my isp still hasnt called me to schedule the installation of my decent speed line because they cannot resolve their installer guy schedule (that is the level of inutility)
[14:51]  * TheMue passes katco a piece of chocolate to calm her nerves
[14:51] <perrito666> katco: cant you just ask for a rewiring/new modem?
[14:52] <perrito666> katco: just in case?
[14:52] <perrito666> i am not sure what is the policy there
[14:52] <katco> i mean... side by side, ping to modem, ping to <IP_ADDRESS>. ping to modem fine, ping to <IP_ADDRESS> dropping. why is this not crystal clear?
[14:52] <natefinch> katco: comcast?
[14:52] <katco> natefinch: charter
[14:53] <natefinch> katco: ug, possibly worse
[14:53] <katco> natefinch: not sure if you guys have that up there
[14:53] <perrito666> I had a friend shot at the main telco distribution box because their policy only allowed to replace cabling if the cable had more than N meters missing (otherwise just patching) and only went to check the box if the box was completely dead
[14:53] <natefinch> katco: we have charter in town, actually... but since our property is on the town line of the next door town, which has fios, I just lied to verizon and said my address is in the next town (and put my billing address as my own town)
[14:53] <katco> lol
[14:54] <perrito666> so we got an insider tell us this (they where ignoring the rewiring request) so we basically chopped the cable by more than the required meters and shot the box (it is a place where said thing is not all that suspicious)
[14:54] <katco> ericsnow: natefinch: wwitzel3: was going to mention, i'm out for the next hour for a dr. appt. wwitzel3, if i'm late for our 1:1 that's why
[14:54] <katco> and if i drop out, now you know why >:|
[14:54] <wwitzel3> katco: ok, if I am late, I have no good excuse
[14:55] <katco> wwitzel3: lol
[14:55] <katco> k bbiab guys, ty for the moral support haha
[14:58] <natefinch> perrito666: nice work of vandalism
[14:58] <natefinch> perrito666: not that I disapprove :)
[14:58] <perrito666> natefinch: tx, the whole neigborhood was very happy
[14:58] <perrito666> they got new phone lines that dont go down on rainy days
[14:59] <natefinch> nice
[14:59] <perrito666> telcos are the worse, there are only 2 in the whole country one in the south and one in the north
[14:59] <perrito666> they are a very bad monopoly and usually cut so many corners that they are a circle
[14:59] <natefinch> perrito666: there's a bunch in the US, but we have government supported monopolies so that they don't ever have to compete in any particular town
[15:01] <perrito666> natefinch: I heard of people actually set their posts on fire so they got underground wiring
[15:01] <natefinch> perrito666: haha, wouldn't work here... they'd just install new posts
[15:01] <perrito666> natefinch: they dropped the posts 15 years ago
[15:02] <perrito666> they just decided not to replace them in some places until it was necessary
[15:02] <perrito666> to cut costs
[15:02] <perrito666> they have an explicit internal rule for service repairmen not to replace anything until is not working 80% of the time or more
[15:03] <Web> Big thanks to Juju team for all your work.  Without you my graduate project wouldn't have been such a success!
[15:03] <perrito666> Web: excelent, congrats on graduation? (will you do a blog post?)
[15:03] <cherylj> Web: I'm curious, what was your project?
[15:04] <perrito666> natefinch: in my birth town they even dropped the tech service, they send 2 people every month for a day and they just fix as much as they get to in that day and the rest just are postponed, there is a guy that works as an individual contractor for people to fix these things because no one expects the company to come anymore
[15:04] <natefinch> perrito666: that's pretty bad
[15:05] <cherylj> can I get a sanity check from someone on a review comment I received yesterday?  dave commented that there was a race in a particular test that I wrote, and I don't think there is:  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1740/
[15:05] <perrito666> natefinch: not for the individual contractor guy
[15:05] <natefinch> haha
[15:05] <Web> perrito666: I will be posting a detailed blog article soon on http://mastersproject.info.
[15:05] <cherylj> In the test, we synchronously call a function, APIWorkers which will call the reportClosedAPI function we're patching
[15:06] <cherylj> I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
[15:06] <Web> cherylj: SaaS delivering questionnaire services with developer access.  Primarily a Node.js based application.  http://themindspot.com
[15:08] <cherylj> neato!  reading now
[15:08] <Web> Now I can start on cleaning it up and expanding the api to make native applications.
[15:08] <perrito666> cherylj: I am a bit out of context, what does reportClosedAPI does exactly
[15:09] <cherylj> it is just a function added to test that we actually close the api we opened in the case of failure.  In the non-test case, it is an empty function.  In the tests, we patch it to set some var to true to indicate that it was called.
[15:09] <Web> cherylj: Still alot of work to do to make it a viable service but the value and product was delivered on time and as expected with good software engineering practices.
[15:10] <cherylj> You can see how a similar pattern is used here:  https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/cmd/jujud/agent/machine_test.go#L858
[15:10] <cherylj> perrito666: ^^
[15:11] <cherylj> perrito666: but in the above case, they are creating a new goroutine and that's why they're using channels
[15:12] <perrito666> cherylj:  I am tracing the code
[15:12] <cherylj> thanks, perrito666
[15:12] <cherylj> Web: how was your experience using Juju?
[15:13] <perrito666> I am not sure here if deferreds run before or after returning from a function, natefinch ?
[15:13] <perrito666> I do believe they are blocking
[15:14] <perrito666> cherylj: anyway, given the logic there it think it would be mor go-ish and safer to use a channel and wait on it isntead of a bool
[15:14] <perrito666> more*
[15:14] <cherylj> thanks, perrito666!
[15:14] <Web> cherylj:  I have been enjoying Juju from the beginning.  I haven't been a charmer for awhile now but have always boasted Juju.  Thats why I knew it was perfect for creating my project proposal.
[15:15] <cherylj> Web: how did you first hear about it?
[15:17] <sinzui> katco, can you ask someone to triage bug 1457225. The case is somewhat extraordinary, I don't understand the severity or labour.
[15:17] <mup> Bug #1457225: Upgrading from 1.20.9 to 1.23.3 works, but error: runner.go:219 exited "machiner": machine-0 failed to set status started: cannot set status of machine "0": not found or not alive <cts> <sts-stack> <upgrade-juju> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457225>
[15:29] <natefinch> perrito666: deferred functions run before the function exits, but after return values are set.  They will be required to finished before the function exits
[15:30] <perrito666> natefinch: I assumed so which makes dave's comment wrong
[15:31] <perrito666> natefinch: but I believe that channel over flags is good anyway
[15:33] <alexisb> Web, glad to hear it! and congrats on a success graduate project!
[15:33] <natefinch> perrito666: http://play.golang.org/p/P2zB4t1Alf
[15:34] <perrito666> natefinch: and how is it handled in the low level?
[15:35] <perrito666> natefinch: is the defered a go routine with access to the namespace of the function or is  an appended func call or what?
[15:36] <Web> cherylj:  I don't even remember but I worked on a early version of node-app to implement some features m3 (Mark Mims) wanted.
[15:36] <natefinch> perrito666: it's not a goroutine.  I'm not sure exactly how it runs.  It does have a non-negligible performance impact, though not enough to care about unless it's in a really hot path
[15:36] <Web> alexisb: thank you very much.
[15:37] <perrito666> natefinch: uff, I assume its something like a try/catch
[15:38] <perrito666> natefinch: I am now tempted to read the go source for that
[15:40] <Web> Now I need to beautify and get some money to upgrade servers from t1.micro's if I want to make this a real service. :)
[15:50] <cjwatson> Hi, is there any way I can get juju's private mongod to not sit there spinning and calling select 100 times a second?  It's quite literally causing me to have to open a window to dissipate laptop heat any time I'm using juju
[15:50] <cjwatson> (jcastro sent me here from #juju)
[16:16] <katco> sinzui: ack
[16:16] <katco> ericsnow: wwitzel3: natefinch: back if you need anything
[16:17]  * natefinch has to spend a little time writing unit tests for his CI tests
[16:18] <katco> ...
[16:18]  * katco is actually not sure how she feels about that
[16:18] <natefinch> katco: https://code.launchpad.net/~natefinch/juju-ci-tools/logrot/+merge/259750
[16:20] <natefinch> katco: I know... on the one hand, it's nice to double check that the tests aren't malfunctioning, but on the other hand, it seems like a belt and suspenders and ... something else that holds up your pants... kind of approach
[16:20] <perrito666> natefinch: I use being fat for that, the belt/suspenders are just for aestethic reasons
[16:20] <katco> yeah... i honestly haven't ever thought about that enough to have an opinion, but the gut check says it seems excessive
[16:35] <marcoceppi> Web: congrats!
[16:41] <Web> marcoceppi: big thanks to you too!  Your always there when I've needed advice.
[16:44] <mup> Bug #1457566 was opened: lock timeout exceeded <deploy> <intermittent-failure> <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core 1.22:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457566>
[16:44]  * perrito666 discovers that his mobile company uses the emergency broadcast alerts to send spam...
[16:45] <katco> i need a volunteer to look at bug 1457225
[16:45] <mup> Bug #1457225: Upgrading from 1.20.9 to 1.23.3 works, but error: runner.go:219 exited "machiner": machine-0 failed to set status started: cannot set status of machine "0": not found or not alive <cts> <sts-stack> <upgrade-juju> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457225>
[16:45] <katco> currently only triage needed
[16:46] <katco> cherylj: perrito666: dooferlad: voidspace: wwitzel3: ericsnow: natefinch-afk: TheMue: ^^
[16:50] <wwitzel3> katco: in a hangout with ericsnow, whit, and lazyPower
[16:50] <katco> wwitzel3: k lmk when you're ready
[16:55] <Web> Okay hadn't thought about applying to Canonical until today.  If you hear my name (Brandon L. Clark) in passing give me some praise.   And any advice?  :)
[17:24] <wwitzel3> katco: ping
[17:24] <katco> wwitzel3: pong
[18:02] <peterklipfel> Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on where I can start with modifying the juju source. I've been using the project for ~1.5 years, but haven't contibuted anything. I'm not so good at go. The thing that I want to do is enable custom image usage on openstack on a per-machine basis. It's possible that this might be a big refactor due to (for example) colocating services on machines. Thoughts?
[18:06] <natefinch-afk> peterklipfel: using go will likely not be your biggest hurdle.  The language itself is quite small and easy to pick up if you know pretty much any other imperative language.  The codebase is quite large, which is the biggest hurdle for new developers.
[18:06] <natefinch-afk> nick natefinch
[18:07] <natefinch> peterklipfel: I woudl start here: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
[18:08] <peterklipfel> natefinch: Right, I'm struggling to wrap my head around the codebase. I have the repository up and running, and have read through the contributing doc. I'm wondering if there's an architecture doc or something somewhere
[18:08] <natefinch> peterklipfel: adding the ability to use custom images is something we've been wanting to do for forever, but just haven't been able to put it up to the top of the priority list
[18:09] <natefinch> peterklipfel: I don't know if we really have a good architecture document.  There's some docs here: https://github.com/juju/juju/tree/master/doc   but a bunch are very old (note that some of them say "2 years ago"... which is a lifetime in the life of juju)
[18:10] <natefinch> peterklipfel: luckily... using custom images would just be something to be able to specify in the communication to the provider (openstack in this case), and the providers are pretty self-contained
[18:11] <peterklipfel> natefinch: I totally missed the "doc" folder. Thanks! Will be back later
[18:12] <natefinch> peterklipfel: probably you'd want to make image a constraint, as defined here: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/constraints/constraints.go   and then figure out how to get the openstack provider to do the right thing with it inside its StartInstance method here: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/provider/openstack/provider.go#L944
[18:14] <peterklipfel> natefinch: awesome. Thanks again
[19:03] <katco> natefinch: wrapping up last meeting
[19:03] <natefinch> katco: ok
[19:42] <bac> hey whit, thanks for the note on that juju-deployer bug.  any plans to get that moving? i think tvansteenburgh has commit rights now, which may speed things up.
[19:44] <whit> bac, yeah...
[19:44] <whit> bac, hazmat requested a test, and I've not had a chance to get back to it
[19:44] <bac> yeah, no one's favorite project.  :)
[19:45] <whit> it's a bit wierd because of the fact that it's dependent on git
[19:45] <whit> (testing that is)
[19:45] <whit> well, no single maintainer.
[19:46]  * whit has no ill will towards deployer
[19:53] <hazmat> whit: just set HOME=tmpdir()  and record identity .. you can setup a temp repo that way in the test without pulling down anything or checking in a repo
[19:54] <hazmat> alternatively just checkin a small git repo
[19:54] <hazmat> whit: the particular error that i saw was that it didn't respect JUJU_REPOSITORY env var
[19:55] <whit> hazmat, not sure about that one
[20:35] <mup> Bug #1457645 was opened:  warning: log line attempted over max size - leadership related <landscape> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457645>
[20:38] <mup> Bug #1457645 changed:  warning: log line attempted over max size - leadership related <landscape> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457645>
[20:44] <mup> Bug #1457645 was opened:  warning: log line attempted over max size - leadership related <landscape> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457645>
[20:46] <natefinch> what the heck is this even supposed to mean?  "missing namespace, config not prepared"
[20:47] <perrito666> the config is not prepared, you are missing a namespace
[20:47] <natefinch> thanks :/
[20:47] <perrito666> natefinch: where do you see that?
[20:47] <natefinch> when I do juju status on my local environment that is currently running
[20:48] <natefinch> I have a feeling something in the CI tests fubared my environment
[20:49] <natefinch> are we still supposed to have jenv files?
[20:49]  * natefinch notes he no longer has a local.jenv
[20:49] <perrito666> natefinch: the comment in the code does not make much sense either
[20:50] <natefinch> I think we are.  I think something in the CI tests blew away my jenv without destroying the CI tests
[20:50] <natefinch> yeah
[20:50] <natefinch> er sorry, without destroying the environment
[20:51] <thumper> natefinch: the namespace is added to the local config at environ prepare time
[20:52] <thumper> so if you aren't getting it, something has gone wrong
[20:52] <natefinch> thumper: I had no jenv for my local environment for some reason
[20:52] <thumper> natefinch: are you running with the jes flag?
[20:52] <natefinch> thumper: nope
[20:52]  * thumper thinks
[20:53] <thumper> natefinch: in the jes-cli branch, we now have 'cache.yaml' instead of .jenv files
[20:53] <thumper> but this won't be impacting you
[20:54] <natefinch> luckily, I have a script to blow away my local environment for just this kind of situation.  Notably it outputs "rm: cannot remove ‘/home/nate/.juju/environments/local.jenv’: No such file or directory"
[20:54] <natefinch> thumper: honestly, it was the error message more than anything that confused me.
[20:55] <thumper> hmm..
[20:55] <natefinch> thumper: totally not a useful error message for an end user, unless there's a juju prepare-config command I don't know about
[20:55] <thumper> agreed
[20:55] <thumper> some developer error messages should really be caught and translated into 'user speak'
[20:55] <natefinch> but hey, maybe it's different with jes now... might get lucky
[20:55] <natefinch> yep
[21:00] <natefinch> dinner time.  Back later folks.
[21:09] <ericsnow> could I get some eyes on patches revert changes that are breaking CI: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1757/ http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1758/ http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1759/
[21:14] <mwhudson> davecheney: i'm still amazed by the effectiveness of my golang-dev trolling about gc
[21:17] <davecheney> mwhudson: yeah
[21:17] <davecheney> it's been rather productive, we've now ruled out custom allocators
[21:17] <davecheney> and people are talking seriously about making Node and Proj smaller
[21:19] <mwhudson> i wonder if people have noticed how very slow the linker is
[21:19] <mwhudson> i could try some trolling in that direction
[21:53] <mwhudson> davecheney: you know that bit in cmd/go's build.go about link order for gccgo builds
[21:54] <mwhudson> davecheney: that we've fixed 1 million times
[21:54] <mwhudson> davecheney: if someone were to hypothetically rewrite it entirely, how would they know they haven't broken it?
[22:00] <ericsnow> katco: could you take a quick look at the other two as well (strictly reverts)
[22:19] <ericsnow> thanks davecheney
[22:27] <davecheney> mwhudson: try to build juju is a good teest
[22:29] <cherylj> davecheney: could you take a look at my changes for your review comments? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/1740/
[22:40] <mwhudson> davecheney: ack
[22:53] <mwhudson> davecheney: any idea how long "go test -compiler gccgo github.com/juju/juju/..." will take?
[22:54] <mwhudson> 30 mins or so?
[22:55] <voidspace> mwhudson: hey michael
[22:55] <voidspace> mwhudson: o/
[22:55] <mwhudson> voidspace: hi!
[22:55] <voidspace> mwhudson: I'm up late doing (another) maas install
[22:55] <voidspace> mwhudson: how are things?
[22:56] <mwhudson> hm, pretty sure the go process isn't supposed to spin using 100% of cpu :(
[22:56] <voidspace> :-)
[22:57] <mwhudson> voidspace: ok, trying to actually make debian packages that contain go shared libraries now
[22:57] <voidspace> mwhudson: very cool
[22:57] <mwhudson> which involves a surprising and unfortunate amount of perl
[22:58] <voidspace> hehe, my commiserations
[22:58] <mwhudson> voidspace: how about you? are you sleeping with tcp illustrated under your pillow? :)
[22:59] <voidspace> mwhudson: I should be!
[22:59] <voidspace> gradually learning
[23:00] <voidspace> mostly learning the peculiarities of maas recently
[23:00] <voidspace> not sure that's such a transferable skill
[23:00] <voidspace> I like maas though
[23:00] <mwhudson> heh
[23:01] <mwhudson> i've wrangled it a bit in the past
[23:01] <voidspace> about to test bleeding edge apis around container IP address releasing
[23:01] <voidspace> which means installing bleeding edge maas
[23:02] <voidspace> which fails to configure when installed from the dailybuilds ppa
[23:02] <voidspace> so back to a vanilla install and then upgrading
[23:02] <voidspace> seeing as I can't work out how to manually run the configure script
[23:03] <voidspace> thankfully so far their upgrades have always done the right thing
[23:03] <voidspace> unlike ubuntu
[23:03] <voidspace> known issue - if you have an encrypted hard drive then upgrading to 14.10/15.04 means you can no longer enter the password
[23:03] <voidspace> fortunately you can still boot through recovery mode, which has a text password entry
[23:04] <voidspace> but given that there's no supported way of removing encryption I'm doing a recovery mode boot every time
[23:04] <mwhudson> ha oops
[23:04] <voidspace> :-)
[23:05] <mwhudson> i avoided that problem by having my laptop fall apart just before 15.04 was released
[23:05] <voidspace> that's one way I guess
[23:05] <voidspace> I haven't dared upgrade my laptop
[23:06] <mwhudson> although the gyrations required to mount my encrypted home dir from the drive after i'd pulled it from the laptop and stuck it in a caddy were... contorted
[23:06] <mwhudson> partly because i'd installed with lvm
[23:06] <voidspace> :-/
[23:06] <voidspace> computers
[23:06] <mwhudson> yeah, otoh usb3 + ssd = pretty fast restore
[23:07] <mwhudson> voidspace: about configuring maas, you should talk to rbasak
[23:07] <voidspace> mwhudson: thanks
[23:07] <mwhudson> his point is that setting up maas requires orchestration, i.e. juju
[23:07] <voidspace> mwhudson: if this doesn't work I will do
[23:07] <mwhudson> but there's a bootstrapping problem there :-)
[23:07] <voidspace> heh
[23:07] <mwhudson> he had some crazy scheme to use it regardless but i don't know what it was
[23:08] <mwhudson> i don't know if he would be of practical help
[23:09] <voidspace> installing maas is supposed to run configuration
[23:09] <voidspace> and if you're *supposed* to do it a different way they should document that
[23:09] <mwhudson> i'm pretty sure installing maas is supposed to work, yea :)
[23:10] <voidspace> it certainly always used to work
[23:28] <mwhudson> Broadcast message from systemd-journald@glamdring (Fri 2015-05-22 11:27:36 NZST):
[23:28] <mwhudson> [14085]: 2015-05-21 23:27:36 INFO juju.testing mgo.go:514 reset successfully reset admin password
[23:28] <mwhudson> wtf
[23:28] <voidspace> yeah, running the test suite on vivid spams systemd messages to the terminal
[23:28] <voidspace> ericsnow knows and cares
[23:30] <ericsnow> mwhudson: see #1456258
[23:30] <mup> Bug #1456258: systemd broadcast message spam during test run <papercut> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.23:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456258>
[23:30] <mwhudson> ah cool
[23:31] <voidspace> right, I've failed to get MAAS working
[23:31] <voidspace> I've got as far as internal server error
[23:31] <voidspace> can't connect to cluster in the logs
[23:31] <voidspace> I'm going to bed
[23:31] <voidspace> g'night all
[23:35] <mwhudson> i think running the tests with gccgo ran my machine to close to out of memory


[01:06] <Waka_Flocka> how can i change my launchpad ID?
[01:08] <wgrant> Waka_Flocka: https://launchpad.net/~/+edit
[01:11] <Waka_Flocka> ok
[01:11] <Waka_Flocka> thanks wgrant
[10:20] <AlbertJB> hello, one question, how can I change my account password? I'm logged in but no option to change the passw
[10:20] <AlbertJB> maybe it's because I'm no longer an active member?
[10:31] <tsimpson> AlbertJB: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/51
[10:32] <tsimpson> (you need to go to https://login.launchpad.net/ )
[10:34] <AlbertJB> yes thanks but it's no that easy
[10:36] <AlbertJB> ok I had to reset the passw via Forget your passw and email
[10:36] <AlbertJB> thanks
[11:35] <Caesar_> Hello i need some quick help
[11:36] <Caesar_> i think i might have been hacked
[11:36] <Caesar_> allready formated but he came back
[11:37] <cjwatson> Formatted?  Are you sure this involves Launchpad?
[11:39] <Caesar_> i don't know.. this is what i found online for help
[11:39] <Caesar_> might you direct me to where i can go?
[11:40] <cjwatson> I'm not sure.  While I sympathise, unless it involves launchpad.net, I don't think we can help you
[11:40] <Caesar_> it don't from the start no,
[11:40] <cjwatson> If it does involve launchpad.net, we'd need a bit more information
[11:40] <Caesar_> where could i turn?
[11:41] <cjwatson> I honestly don't know, I'm afraid


[01:39] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:15] <lotuspsychje> morning xangua
[04:16] <xangua> Midnight
[04:17] <lotuspsychje> oh
[06:43] <ducasse> morning all
[07:48] <Bashing-om> 'Nuf G nite \o
[08:59] <immu> hi all
[09:00] <immu> ducasse hi
[09:02] <immu> how many of you are excited about, release?
[09:16] <ikonia> not really
[09:16] <ikonia> what is there to be excited about this release ?
[09:47] <immu> each new release is a progression
[09:49] <ikonia> what is exciting about this release
[09:54] <immu> many things
[09:54] <ikonia> such as
[10:00] <immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/09/ubuntu-17-10-beta-2-download ikonia read it here & i think you are LTS user?
[10:00] <ikonia> no, I'm asking you what is there to get excited about
[10:00] <ikonia> what is the "thing" that is a must have in this release
[10:00] <ikonia> you're telling me there are many things to get excited about
[10:00] <ikonia> "what" is there to get excited about
[10:01] <Ben64> 18.04 will be exciting
[10:02] <ikonia> yeah, thats got a bit more to it looking at the roadmap
[10:02] <ikonia> I'm not sure I'd go as far as exciting, but certainly a core change
[10:03] <Ben64> i skipped 16.04 on desktop, so i'll probably install 18.04
[13:09] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:32] <oerheks> hi BluesKaj
[13:34] <BluesKaj> hey oerheks
[13:35] <oerheks> that arun .. really?
[13:35] <BluesKaj> yeah, constant complainer
[13:35] <oerheks> if a program uses ram, that is *bad*
[13:35] <oerheks> kill *
[13:36] <BluesKaj> 10tabs open... what does he expect?
[13:49] <oerheks> 10 tabs open, 6 youtube.. who can watch 6 movies at the same time :-D
[13:49] <oerheks> silly users, i want this, now my pc is slooooooowwwwww
[13:52] <BluesKaj> trying to resize his swap partition on the fly won't work afaik
[14:04] <oerheks> jups, and i think i gave the right instruction, logout, change right top corner, login again
[14:18] <BluesKaj> that dreaman is nothing but a sh*t disturber,  telling users to do this and that which have little to do with their issues
[14:21] <EriC^^> yay they fixed the stupid vulnerability of ubottu and ubot5 (outside channel messaging)
[14:29] <EriC^^> i'd /msg ubottu !cookies > #ubuntu-ops but it doesn't work anymore
[15:34] <immu> how di amigos
[15:36] <oerheks> si si, or cola cola
[15:53] <xangua> Mmm Pepsi
[15:56] <oerheks> they all taste bad, without rum
[16:15] <BluesKaj> sugar sugar, everywhere
[16:56] <immu> yeah BluesKaj and hi
[16:56] <immu> EriC^^, hi again
[16:56] <immu> brb rebooting
[17:04] <oerheks> grinn, ikonia gets my drift
[17:06] <immu> i am back
[17:07] <oerheks> :-)
[17:10] <BluesKaj> hi immu, EriC^^
[17:24] <immu> hi all
[17:24] <immu> whats upo
[17:43] <immu> goodnite all
[17:51] <brunch> I'm starting to sympatyze with #ubuntu
[17:51] <brunch> just helped a friend install wine-staging by telling him to copy and paste some commands
[17:51] <brunch> add key, repo, update, install
[17:52] <brunch> he failed to copy and paste the commands
[17:52] <oerheks> Yes, ubuntu makes it pretty easy adding a repo
[17:52] <brunch> for some reason he'd run them partially
[17:56] <ducasse> even more fun when someone spends half an hour or so patiently explaining something to someone, and then that someone goes and asks the exact same thing in another channel, because "i don't trust the person who answered"
[17:56] <ikonia> ducasse: that guy was not going to be helped
[17:57] <oerheks> his reasons suggests he knows enough about partitioning
[17:57] <oerheks> just a lonely dude
[17:57] <ikonia> he seems to know nothing
[17:58] <ikonia> and seems to be parroting stuff he's reading on the net


[21:31] <Core5108> Good Evening everyone!
[21:32] <Core5108> I would like some help with my UbuntuStudio 22 installation.
[21:33] <Core5108> For some reason, it's not detecting my nvme. I have tried setting `nvme_load=YES` in the `/etc/default/grub` file but itnstill cannot recognize it.
[21:35] <Core5108> Any help would be appreciated.


[03:20] <Unit193> Sorry it's me again. ubot2 seems to not answer to info with !info PACKAGE, only with ubot2: info PCGK and seems to be stuck on Maverick :P
[03:21] <Unit193> ubot2: config supybot.plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease
[03:21] <ubot2> Unit193: Global: maverick; #ubuntu-irc: maverick
[03:21] <ubot2> Unit193: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[03:22] <IdleOne> jpds: ^^
[17:06] <dscassel> Hi folks...
[17:06] <dscassel> My membership went through last week. Can I get a cloak?
[17:06] <dscassel> https://launchpad.net/~dscassel
[17:11] <Pici> dscassel: you should identify first.
[17:11] <Pici> topyli, tsimpson, elky: https://launchpad.net/~dscassel
[17:14] <tsimpson> dscassel: we need to to identify or register with NickServ before we can apply a cloak
[17:23] <dscassel> tsimpson, Pici, okay, identified.
[17:25] <tsimpson> dscassel: ok, I just need to find a staff member to activate the cloak
[17:30] <tsimpson> dscassel: you're all set now
[17:35] <Pici> dscassel: congrats on your membership :)
[17:37] <dscassel> tsimpson, Pici: Thanks. :)
[17:40] <Tanvir> Hi, can anybody please remove the l flag from #ubuntu-bd ? That channel has a limit or 17 user, very unusual for a public channel, also, we many people are trying to join for a online event, while the cannot.
[17:41] <Tanvir> Local op is not available now. I have been asked in #freenode to ask here.
[17:41] <Tanvir> Thanks.
[17:42] <Tanvir> Problem has been taken care of. Thank you guys.
[19:41] <popey> my spidey sense is tingling
[19:41] <Unit193> Who'd you ban now? ;)
[19:42] <popey> hah
[19:42] <popey> haha, like your irc name Unit193
[19:42] <Unit193> Haha! Thanks! :P