[08:32] <glick> is there a japanese ubuntu offtopic channel?
[08:33] <glick> どのように私はオフのトピックチャネルになるのですか？
[08:34] <glick> 誰もがここですか？
[08:35] <hito_jp> yes?
[08:35] <glick> hi hito_jp
[08:36] <glick> is there a japanese ubuntu offtopic channel?
[08:37] <hito_jp> This channel is acceptable off/on-topics.
[08:39] <glick> the reason i ask is because i wanted to ask someone in japan if water ionizers are popular there. some sales person wanted to sell me one and told me they are very popular and widespread in japan
[08:40] <glick> wanted to see if anyone knows anything about this
[08:40] <hito_jp> hmm....
[08:41] <glick> this so called "kangen" water
[08:42] <glick> hi jkbys
[08:43] <hito_jp> In Japan, water filters(e.g.: Brita)  are popular.
[08:43] <glick> no Enagic?
[08:44] <hito_jp> yes.
[08:45] <hito_jp> I'm afraid so, some "ionized" water units are vicious business.
[08:45] <glick> but their claims are junk science
[08:45] <glick> they claim that the japanese ministry of health, labour, and wellness has approved them for use in hispitals and such
[08:45] <glick> they seem like a multi-level marketing scam to me
[08:46] <hito_jp> Not to mince words, they are *rogue*.
[08:47] <glick> rogue?
[08:47] <glick> what do you mean?
[08:48] <glick> you've head of them though?
[08:48] <hito_jp> I think it's a fraud.
[08:48] <glick> i cant find a single independant, credible white paper or clinical study that backs up their claims
[08:48] <glick> and this lady came to my mom, saying this thing is revolutionary from japan, and cures everything from diabetes to cancer
[08:48] <glick> so naturally i became skeptical
[08:49] <glick> and they cost $4,000
[08:50] <hito_jp> Ah, You are caught up in the scam. In Japan, *some* people believe "ionized" water power. But that is based on junk-science.
[08:52] <glick> i emailed the japanese ministry of health to see what they have to say about the matter
[08:52] <hito_jp> http://www.caa.go.jp/trade/pdf/100427kouhyou.pdf
[08:53] <glick> whats that about? i cant read japanese
[08:53] <glick> whats the gist of what it says?
[08:54] <hito_jp> By Consumer Agency(In Japan) said: Enagic use illegal business practice, we shutting down for 9 month.
[08:54] <glick> ah
[08:54] <glick> hmm interesting
[08:54] <glick> thanks
[08:59] <hito_jp> But, to be honest, for what it's worth, "former Prime Minister Abe like enagic water". That is indivisual freedom.
[09:00] <hito_jp> Keep one thing perfectly clear, enagic is shutting down by consumer protection law.
[09:00] <glick> heh Abe must have been a kook
[09:00] <glick> lol
[09:00] <hito_jp> So, I think that is fraudulent moneymaking scheme.
[09:00] <glick> yeah i agree
[09:04] <glick> where in japan do you live?
[09:06] <glick> the best water filter is a 5 or 6 level reverse osmosis filter with a post mineral bed filter
[11:11] <Callum__> あけましておめでとう
[11:12] <Callum__> ニュージーランドにもう２０１１年ですからね
[15:02] <ki_van> あけましておめでとうございます
[15:07] <rshhh> あけおめー！
[23:41] <Tukeke> hi People


[09:34]  * nlsthzn waves
[15:55] <nhandler> Sorry for not getting UWN out last night. I'm doing it now. We really need to be more careful when copying/pasting article titles from blogs. The fancy quotes and dashes really mess things up
[15:58]  * nlsthzn will remember that in future
[16:09] <nhandler> /70/70
[18:22] <pleia2> I thought I got rid of all the fancy single quotes, but we should probably have a list of illegal characters so we can check for them


[18:09] <SpamapS> Hrm.. jenkins forks and exits when you send it HUP
[18:09] <SpamapS> meaning the job appears to die, and upstart loses track of the pid
[18:10] <SpamapS> May have to drop pid tracking for it then. Bummer.
[22:56] <marrusl> what's a good late-in-boot-as-possible event normally?  runlevel 2?
[22:56] <marrusl> SpamapS, ^
[22:56] <SpamapS> Heh, we just had a big discussion about this yesterday
[22:57] <SpamapS> there isn't a good one
[22:57] <marrusl> :)
[22:57] <SpamapS> the best you have is 'stopped rc RUNLEVEL=[2345]'
[22:57] <SpamapS> Which is when tty1 pops up
[22:58] <marrusl> SpamapS, brings to mind the famous question...  what's your sleep(1) number?
[22:58] <SpamapS> marrusl: we need an intermediate job for mid-boot things that you want to track the state of. this goes back to the 'network-services' job.
[22:58] <SpamapS> lol
[22:58] <SpamapS> marrusl: what class of things do you want to be after?
[22:59] <SpamapS> If its "everything" .. we're probably going to transition nearly everything that is 'start on runlevel [2345]' to be 'start on starting network-services'
[22:59] <SpamapS> and then if you want to be "after that stuff" you will be 'start on started network-services'
[22:59] <marrusl> SpamapS, in this case networking indeed.
[22:59] <marrusl> and it's on lucid.  :-/
[22:59] <SpamapS> marrusl: for networking, runlevel 2 is good 11.10 and later
[23:00] <SpamapS> marrusl: for lucid, your best bet is to delay runlevel 2 for all of the network devices
[23:00] <SpamapS> I wonder..
[23:00] <SpamapS> perhaps we should backport the static-network-up event
[23:00] <SpamapS> not the change to /etc/init/rc.conf
[23:01] <marrusl> SpamapS, basically so far your idea to use "start on started udev" seems ok, but since the problem condition is so rare (~3-5% of boots) we have to script checking for the problem conditions...
[23:01] <marrusl> and if none, reboot.
[23:02] <marrusl> but when I had an invalid upstart job starting infiniband (well failing to start)
[23:03] <marrusl> the script didn't catch the error condition and kept rebooting.
[23:04] <SpamapS> marrusl: burn-in test :)
[23:04] <marrusl> SpamapS, haha.  basically yup.


[07:03] <surf> Hi all, I added my openstack cloud to juju clouds and credentials also. while doing juju bootstrap to that cloud i am getting following error.
[07:04] <surf> Error log pasted here http://paste.openstack.org/show/595548/
[07:04] <surf> please someone help
[07:27] <axw> surf: what's the version of openstack?
[07:27] <surf> axw: liberty
[07:32] <axw> surf: can you share your clouds.yaml?
[07:33] <surf> axw: yeah 1 sec
[07:33] <surf> here is my clouds.yaml file http://paste.openstack.org/show/595553/
[07:33] <axw> thanks
[07:34] <axw> surf: I'm a little suspicious that we're not doing v3 properly. can you try changing the endpoint from v3 to v2, see if that makes a difference?
[07:35] <surf> axw: ok
[07:36] <surf> awx: still no difference
[07:38] <axw> surf: did you set anything for "domain-name" in the credentials?
[07:38] <surf> yeah it is "default"
[07:39] <axw> surf: I have to admit to being completely ignorant of v3 auth, I've never used it. can you please try commenting that out of your credentials.yaml to force v2 auth?
[07:40] <axw> if that doesn't work, might need to wait for someone with better openstack debugging skills
[08:23] <surf> axw: still i am getting autentication problem
[08:31] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world
[08:33] <axw> surf: is the debug output any different at all when using the v2 endpoint?
[08:41] <surf> axw: here is the debug log with v2 http://paste.openstack.org/show/595565/
[08:47] <axw> surf: sorry, I am out of ideas
[08:48] <surf> axw: ok thanks for your i nfo
[09:47] <surf> Hi all, I am doing bootstrap juju to the openstack cloud
[09:48] <surf> is it necessary the both juju and openstack cloud on same node
[09:49] <surf> or can i bootstrap juju on to the openstack cloud from different machine, where juju is installed
[11:53] <surf> hi all, I followed this doc https://jujucharms.com/docs/devel/howto-privatecloud
[11:53] <surf> to bootstrap juju on openstack cloud
[11:54] <surf> i am getting the error authentication failed.
[11:54] <surf> here is the debug log http://paste.openstack.org/show/595606/
[12:11] <anrah> surf: are you deploying whole openstack or just creating controller to existing openstack tenant?
[13:00] <kjackal> Hey cory_fu do you happen to be around?
[13:05] <BlackDex> hello there, is it possible to have some charms wait during a bundle deployment for after a specific other charm is finished?
[13:16] <tvansteenburgh> BlackDex: "waiting" logic like that would need to be in the charm itself
[13:17] <tvansteenburgh> for example, you could wait to start the service that the charm provides until after it had successfully joined a relation with another charm
[13:18] <tvansteenburgh> e.g. a web app charm that's waiting for a database
[13:27] <BlackDex> well for instance if i deploy a system with a lot of LXD containers, or even deploy mysql and wordpress onto a physical system without containers they both will install packages
[13:27] <BlackDex> since just one instance of apt-get can run, one will wait
[13:28] <BlackDex> if the juju deploy (using a bundle) is smart enough to wait to add one untill the first is finsihed, that would be better i think
[13:32] <tvansteenburgh> BlackDex: is this theoretical or are you hitting a problem in a deployment?
[13:33] <BlackDex> hitting a problem
[13:33] <BlackDex> i just received an lxd container within a 10.x.x.x network, will the network is 192.168.x.x
[13:34] <BlackDex> so i needed to re-deploy
[13:34] <BlackDex> also, i'm currently trying to deploy an HA OpenStack
[13:34] <BlackDex> it seems like to much is running at the same time
[13:34] <BlackDex> some hooks fail
[13:35] <BlackDex> and if i run those hooks via debug-hooks there seems to be nothing wrong, or causeing errors
[13:36] <tvansteenburgh> BlackDex: anything useful in `juju debug-log` output?
[13:37] <BlackDex> i have to check that a bit better
[13:37] <BlackDex> but not really
[13:38] <BlackDex> i this case i see that mysql isn't able to connect
[13:38] <BlackDex> but it is strange if i do it manually it works
[13:39] <tvansteenburgh> BlackDex: which bundle are you deploying?
[13:39] <BlackDex> percona-cluster
[13:45] <tvansteenburgh> BlackDex: so not a bundle, just the percona-cluster charm?
[13:54] <BlackDex> no a whole bundle
[13:54] <BlackDex> the basic openstack-bundle
[13:55] <BlackDex> and i changed it to be HA
[13:55] <BlackDex> the base works fine
[13:55] <BlackDex> but after ha it stops deploying even the basic charms them selfs
[13:55] <BlackDex> it looks like some limits or something
[13:55] <BlackDex> or race-conditions
[13:56] <BlackDex> ill go and try the default bundle now again
[13:56] <BlackDex> and see what that does
[14:18] <jhobbs> it looks like juju 1.25 is at least sometimes setting up /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99no-recommends to set apt to not install recommended packages
[14:18] <jhobbs> is there a setting to enable/disable that? why is that happening?
[14:31] <jcastro> that seems like really wrong behavior to me
[14:31] <jhobbs> yeah
[14:31] <jhobbs> it seems crazy
[14:32] <jhobbs> we're seeing breakage because base layer just installs python3-pip, which ends up bringing python3.5-dev in via recommended packages if apt is allowed to
[14:32] <jhobbs> but with no recommends set it doesn't, and then pip install of pyaml fails because it wants to build a cpython module
[14:32] <jcastro> I'm not a policy expert but that seems like a bug to me
[14:35] <jrwren> jhobbs: where are you seeing this no-recommends set? could it be a different colocated charm? Is something integrating with a charm before its deployed? I've never seen this, but I always wanted it :)
[14:36] <jhobbs> the file says it was created by juju
[14:36] <jhobbs> but it may be a lie
[14:36] <jhobbs> i just checked the juju source and don't see it listed
[14:37] <jrwren> jhobbs: what charm?
[14:37] <jhobbs> ah ok
[14:37] <jhobbs> it's IS's basenode that is doing this
[14:37] <jrwren> jhobbs: is there an exec.d dir in the charm root dir or in the charm hooks dir?
[14:37] <jhobbs> sorry for the false juju alarm
[14:37] <jhobbs> i will take it up with them
[14:45] <jcastro> whew!
[14:59] <bdx> question concerning juju beta hosted controller
[15:00] <bdx> the "Access  Last connection" doesn't seem to populate corrrectly see -> Access  Last connection
[15:00] <bdx> oops
[15:00] <bdx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23828205/
[15:01] <bdx> juju-gui shows https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/5590546/22111375/f9e80a5c-de13-11e6-92d3-1672174dd3b4.png
[15:02] <bdx> I'm wondering if this has to do with the permission level I have as a user of the controller ...
[15:03] <BlackDex> tvansteenburgh: With the old juju i used the juju-deployer and that waited with adding units after the first unit whas running, it also waited with adding the relations untill the end.. Since juju 2.0 it deployes better like juju-deployer, but it laks the waiting part. I think that is a plus
[15:05] <BlackDex> the waiting part i mean, that is better, it doesn't hogg the system all at once
[15:06] <tvansteenburgh> that may be true for a local lxd deploy, but it's irrelevant for a typical cloud deploy
[15:09] <BlackDex> why? because all the HA services are within an LXD
[15:09] <BlackDex> all services are within an lxd container on several nodes
[15:10] <BlackDex> thats the same from my point of view
[15:12] <tvansteenburgh> lxd containers are totally isolated from each other, so there shouldn't be any conflict (like using apt at the same time on multiple containers). and if the node hosting the lxds can't handle running them all at once (i.e. the system is overloaded), then the node is under-provisioned to begin with
[15:15] <BlackDex> well, there are a lot of tweaks needed by default to run lxd's like open-files, inotify, max-pids etc...
[15:16] <BlackDex> those arn't set by default high enough sometimes
[15:16] <BlackDex> it happens most on bare-metal systems
[15:16] <BlackDex> so multiple charms bare-metal on the same system.
[15:17] <BlackDex> i think i have found a way
[15:17] <BlackDex> i deploy it with hacluster charms, but i don't add all units yet. I created a small script to add those afterwards
[17:05] <kjackal> kwmonroe: petevg: this is a fix for the path. Please, review, merge re-push to store. Apologies: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-cwr/pull/41/files
[17:10] <kwmonroe> lol..  i love it.  python nested in bash functions that are called by trapping the exit from our bash defined in a jenkins job xml.  more of this please!
[17:10] <kwmonroe> merged
[17:20] <kwmonroe> kjackal: petevg:  cs:~juju-solutions/cwr-30 is released (includes latest matrix, jenkins, and xml branches)
[17:21] <petevg> thank you!
[20:15] <aisrael> Anyone have experience with juju failing to remove a unit (log shows "cleanup failed for removed Unit("unitname"): transaction aborted")
[20:17] <kjackal> kwmonroe: agreed lets keep the python scripts under scripts. Thank you for releasing cwr
[20:18] <lazyPower> aisrael - i've only seen that deadlock when a remote relation has failed or a sub relation has failed
[20:18] <lazyPower> sounds like perhaps the agent cleanup is what failed?
[20:19] <aisrael> lazyPower: Yeah, it seems like it. status shows the agent is stuck "executing".
[20:19] <lazyPower> aisrael  if you juju ssh into that unit and recycle the jujud process, does it unstick it?
[20:23] <aisrael> lazyPower: No, but it does show me a few things possibly broken in its networking, so that could be a clue
[20:23] <lazyPower> weird
[20:23] <lazyPower> i'm at a loss for why its doing this :( sorry
[20:25] <aisrael> no worries, man.
[20:26]  * aisrael breaks out strace
[20:27] <kwmonroe> aisrael: sounds like you need more mongos
[20:28] <aisrael> I think I need eleventy of them, right?
[20:30] <admcleod_> i read that as mangos. everyone needs more mangos
[20:33] <aisrael> hah.  Cleanup failed with an unexpected error:  unknown operation kind run-action
[21:08] <lazyPower> aisrael - did it have actions queue?
[21:09] <lazyPower> it might be that we've hit a not as well tested path with teh agents where an action is scheduled, yet cleanup attempt ran before the action was completed, and now its fighting for what should be happening
[21:09] <lazyPower> i'm guessing here, but it sounds reasonable
[22:09] <rmcadams> in the juju bundle yamls, when you build them, can you use 'tags' as constraints for machines?
[22:09] <admcleod_> rmcadams: yes
[22:10] <rmcadams> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/uRqlOAh1/
[22:11] <rmcadams> so under constraints, I can put  tag=compute
[22:11] <rmcadams> as an example?
[22:11] <admcleod_> rmcadams: yeah, heres an example: https://github.com/ubuntu-openstack/zopenstack/blob/master/bundles/zkvm/xenial-mitaka-2-machine-control-plane-next.yaml#L25
[22:11] <admcleod_> tags=
[22:11] <rmcadams> nice
[22:12] <rmcadams> building my own derivative of the openstack bundle to build a big configuration of six compute, six storage and then some infrastructure nodes
[22:14] <admcleod_> cool :)
[22:15] <rmcadams> just trying to learn the bundles, seems important ;)
[22:15] <admcleod_> hah yeah, you dont want to be deploying that stuff manually
[22:15] <lazyPower> its like deploying kubernetes charms manually, only with more relations and components
[22:16] <lazyPower> rip
[22:16] <lazyPower> i concede, openstack is the final boss of charming
[22:17] <lazyPower> beisner - i pay homage to my fore-fathers publically ^
[22:21]  * beisner ^5s that k8s work, good sir
[22:22] <lazyPower> <3
[22:37] <kwmonroe> won't somebody stand up for the elephants in the room?
[22:38] <kwmonroe> big data is where it's at.
[22:39] <admcleod_> thats more of a balrog
[22:39] <admcleod_> soz
[22:40] <lazyPower> kwmonroe you do make a good point
[22:40] <lazyPower> kwmonroe but i would have expected you to be the champion and remind me of my roots :P
[22:40] <lazyPower> java is *always* the final boss
[22:40] <kwmonroe> k8s and the 'stack are great, but when you want to actually do real work (like wordcount), hadoop is where it's at.
[22:40] <mbruzek> Did someone say Java?
[22:41] <kwmonroe> lol
[22:41] <lazyPower> kwmonroe https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder481/53692481.jpg
[22:42] <kwmonroe> that's awesome lazyPower
[22:42] <lazyPower> i cant take credit, its from an old monitorama talk https://jamessdixon.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/image.png
[22:45] <admcleod_> ￼course, if you wnna do .. something like wordcount which isnt wordcount, but is very similar, then bigdata on openstack with lxd is where its at. right. right?
[22:45] <admcleod_> right
[22:45] <beisner> Java Java jav
[22:45] <beisner> a
[22:45] <beisner> yeah, because:  bopensdata.
[22:45] <mbruzek> beisner: You know that pings me right?
[22:45] <beisner> Java
[22:45] <admcleod_> java
[22:45] <lazyPower> RIP bruzer's notifications and productivity
[22:46] <mbruzek> you guys!
[22:46] <kwmonroe> java 2 se for workgroups
[22:46] <lazyPower> y u guys make fun of yava?
[22:48] <admcleod_> java - only slightly more stupid than rocket league
[22:48] <beisner> my 6 yo is addicted to rocket league
[22:48]  * lazyPower smirks
[22:48] <lazyPower> so is admcleod_, dont let him fool ya
[22:48] <beisner> raising a proper geek here
[22:49] <lazyPower> heck yeah beisner
[22:49] <lazyPower> i approve of this message
[22:49] <admcleod_> haha good one
[22:49] <admcleod_> yeah like ive even played it once, ever
[22:49] <beisner> this hour, you mean?
[22:49] <lazyPower> admcleod_ - my new obsession is ARK
[22:49] <lazyPower> cross between dayz, turok, and minecraft
[22:49] <admcleod_> guys,. plz. RL sux lol
[22:50] <lazyPower> oh no admcleod_ has reverted to internet gibberish
[22:50] <lazyPower> he must be having a RL withdrawl
[22:50] <justicefries> ARK is so fun
[22:50] <lazyPower> justicefries ^^^^^^ OMG YOU'RE HERE
[22:50] <justicefries> o/
[22:50] <lazyPower> how goes it?
[22:50] <admcleod_> actually i havent played for a week or so
[22:51] <lazyPower> admcleod_ back in EU so our ping doesn't suck?
[22:51] <justicefries> quite well! taking a slow WFH day
[22:51] <admcleod_> lazyPower: back weds
[22:51] <lazyPower> ack, we'll have to link up and pwn scrubs on weds
[22:52] <admcleod_> lazyPower: then i will backboard second hit airdribble you into oblivion
[22:52] <admcleod_> i mean yeah pwn scrubs
[22:52] <kwmonroe> these new juju nouns are great.
[22:52] <kwmonroe> juju airdribble-controller --oblivion
[22:53] <admcleod_> haha
[22:53] <lazyPower> admcleod_ we call that the mr miyagi
[22:53] <lazyPower> its an advanced move, but totally cool when its pulled off
[22:54] <admcleod_> yeah. i mean. obviously i dont play RL, but if i did, i would also have been watching tactics vids.
[22:54] <justicefries> oh lazy question on the CDK, took a cursory glance and couldn't find it - what's the default cert expiry on what easyrsa is issuing?
[22:55] <lazyPower> 10 years, mbruzek fact check me?
[22:55] <lazyPower> yeah, he confirmed on the hangout
[22:55] <justicefries> cool
[22:55] <kwmonroe> java_max_int for sure
[22:55] <mbruzek> yes 10 years by default and you can make them longer
[22:55] <lazyPower> 10 yars
[22:55] <lazyPower> *years
[23:00] <beisner> http://www.2600online.com/assets/cart_yarsrevenge.jpg
[23:00] <lazyPower> classic
[23:00] <lazyPower> @beisner bring back the door games
[23:01] <lazyPower> time for some L.O.R.D.
[23:01] <lazyPower> or TradeWars 2002
[23:05] <lazyPower> also beisner  did you know you can play atari in your browser? http://www.virtualatari.org/soft.php?soft=Yars_Revenge
[23:05]  * beisner can't click that right now, please leave a message
[23:05]  * lazyPower leaves that right here in channel for safe keeping
[23:06] <admcleod_> *visions of all CI breaking for weeks*
[23:25] <mbruzek> beer proof keyboards


[00:02] <gnomefreak> there is something really messed up everything is crashing when i open them
[00:03]  * gnomefreak gonna reinstall in a bit and see if new intrepid has this issue
[04:10] <[reed]> asac / fta: ping
[08:29] <asac> [reed]: ?
[08:29] <[reed]> asac: mozilla bug 442788
[08:32] <asac> [reed]: err, why do so many bugs exist for the same issue
[08:33] <[reed]> same issue?
[08:33] <asac> i commented on another bug yesterday
[08:33] <[reed]> oh, that bug got duped
[08:34] <asac> [reed]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442257#c22
[08:34] <asac> read the next comment too
[08:42] <[reed]> asac: so, what's the problem?
[08:44] <[reed]> ah
[08:56] <asac> bug 244439
[09:12] <asac> argh. that bug is completely bogus
[12:50]  * asac lunch
[13:01] <fta2> asac, did you use mozclient to fetch nspr/nss lately ?
[13:04] <fta2> apparently not
[13:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> he did just say hes gone away :)
[13:42] <asac> fta2: huh?
[13:42] <asac> fta2: hmm ... no i think i downloaded tarball from ftp
[13:42] <asac> (as it was release)
[13:42] <fta2> yep, i guessed from your changelog
[13:42] <asac> fta2: let me know when you have a fix so i can up' it
[13:43] <asac> (i assume its broken :))
[13:43] <fta2> a fix for what ?
[13:43] <asac> fta2: oh. hmm thought you asked because you saw a bug
[13:44] <fta2> no, i was just curious if you tested my new MOZCLIENT_DYNTAG feature
[13:45] <fta2> in fact, i thought that we wanted to follow the tags from upstream, instead of taking each release of nss/nspr
[13:47] <asac> fta2: yeah. you are right. i think the release is the one used upstream right?
[13:47] <asac> my fault was to not use mozclient here I admit
[13:50] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: what do you think of icecat?
[13:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, GNU icecat? i've never used it. i have had lots of requests for it in gNewSense though
[13:52] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: apparently they managed to move their features to an extension
[13:52] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: e.g. they have firefox + privacy features
[13:53] <asac> not yet sure what this means ;)
[13:53] <asac> but i think the idea is to package that extension and install it by default
[13:54] <asac> either on top of iceweasel or the rebranded firefox
[13:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, guess it means those changes will be able to move to mozilla users easier (well, i hope it does)
[13:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, in theory could u-mozdev scripts be used to make icecat? (by changing branding/svn repo target etc etc)
[13:55] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: well. there are multiple options
[13:55] <asac> 1. package the extension separately and use mozilla-devscripts to produce an icecat-base branding
[13:55] <asac> package
[13:56] <asac> s/branding/branded/
[13:56] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: in anycase. what we have to solve imo is that we now have 4 brandings :(
[13:56] <asac> firefox, iceweasel, icecat, <whatever you use>
[13:57] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: what branding will you use?
[13:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> burningdog (2 for FF2, 3 for FF3)
[13:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, its a kind of interesting name :p
[13:58] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: why do you need a new name?
[13:58] <asac> :)
[13:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, for FF?
[13:58] <asac> no ... why not use one of the other options ;)
[13:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, because when we did gNS 1.1 there was only one other option - firefox. (debian iceweasel/gnu iceweasel had just started).
[14:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> we want to minimise the amount of packages we create from scratch (eg, a gnu icecat) to minimise our delta from ubuntu. quite simply, because more delta means more work for the 1.5-2.~ developers
[14:00] <asac> true
[14:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> which is why i'm /really/ interested in what the devscripts can do, becaues it helps us generate a "new browser" much easier then manually replacing files and seding stuff around
[14:01] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: true too.
[14:31]  * Kamping_Kaiser has a break from transcribing to watch the irc scroll past
[14:41] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24207/
[14:41] <asac> wanna finish it ;)
[14:41] <asac> ?
[14:42] <asac> the idea is that all the right pkg files get created during clean :)
[14:42] <asac> for whatever brading guessable from changelog source package
[14:42] <asac> so the procedure would just be "replace orig + new changelog entry"
[14:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> still reading through sorry, i'm a bit slow tonight
[14:44] <asac> sure
[14:46] <fta2> asac, ouch
[14:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> if i understand corretly,  your moving all the files to a generic temp name in the debian/ dir, then making all (relevent?) references to firefox turn into something parsed out of the changelog
[14:47] <fta2> asac, which branch did you use for that ? the locales part tells me it's not .head
[14:47] <asac> fta2: he?
[14:47] <asac> .head
[14:48] <fta2>  # currently not autoparsed from changelog, because we need to fail if
[14:48] <fta2>  # maintainer didn't adjust those before release. we can change that once ffox
[14:48] <fta2> i changed that a few days ago
[14:48] <fta2> hm
[14:48] <asac> ok probably not up-to-date
[14:48] <fta2> not pushed ? or not pulled ?
[14:48] <asac> fta2: not pulled
[14:49] <asac> the above diff is a prototype i hacked in a few seconds to show Kamping_Kaiser how we could do it
[14:49] <asac> :)
[14:49] <fta2> do we really want that ?
[14:50] <asac> fta2: in some way yes.
[14:50] <asac> fta2: we want to supporte derivatives as much as possible
[14:50] <fta2> asac, look at my last commit, your patch overlaps my changes
[14:51] <asac> fta2: yes i saw that
[14:51] <asac> my change is just a prototype. i will not land it on .head
[14:51] <fta2> i've already dropped most of the references to firefox(-3.0)
[14:51] <Sergeant_Pony> anyone having a problem with ff3 freezing after watching a video?
[14:53] <asac> fta2: sure.
[14:53] <asac> Sergeant_Pony: nope
[14:53] <asac> Sergeant_Pony: maybe libflashsupport installed?
[14:54] <asac> (or not ;))
[14:54] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: would you be willing to finish that approach? :)
[14:54] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24210/
[14:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, i'd be willing to try, i just cant commit any time for the next few days. :/
[14:57]  * Kamping_Kaiser points to his book of excuses.
[14:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, is that patch against the -devscripts?
[14:59] <asac> Kamping_Kaiser: no its about the firefox branch
[14:59] <asac> so you dont need to touch the packaging anymore
[15:00] <asac> e.g. just produce a special tarball (using -devscripts) and flip changelog :)
[15:00] <asac> thats the idea ;)
[15:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> i like the idea ;) hopefully theres still something i can hack on next weekend. *is still studying atm*
[15:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> asac, thanks for your work (and the offer of playing too) - i'm crashing out.
[15:07] <asac> fta2: if you have other ideas let me know
[15:08] <asac> fta2: we could also do branches, which we merge on every update
[15:08] <asac> e.g. burningdog-3.0 branch based on firefox-3.0 branch
[15:08] <asac> but i think that causes more maintenance issues in the long run
[15:12] <fta2> i'm more about just a feature to specify a foreign branding/name, instead of listing each derivative
[15:15] <asac> fta2: specify? how?
[15:16] <fta2> i need to think about this
[15:16] <asac> if it requires to patch rules, we can also ship the common brandings on our own imo.
[15:17] <asac> fta2: in any case we need all packaging files to be templates i guess
[15:24] <fta2> i guess so too
[15:44] <Sergeant_Pony> asac, no libflashsupport according to package manager it's not installed
[15:46] <Sergeant_Pony> is it needed?
[15:51] <fta2> i'm not coming back, my box at home is probably dead :(
[15:52] <fta2> too hot ?
[16:02] <fta2> eheh
[16:04] <Volans> fta2: you have some double-personality issues.... ;)
[16:05] <Volans> you talk with yourself :)
[16:05] <Volans> and speak about you in third person ...
[16:08] <fta2> lol
[16:09] <fta2> last summer, my pc crashed every day
[16:09] <Volans> where is your oc?
[16:09] <Volans> pc
[16:09] <fta2> at home, in my office
[16:10] <fta2> exposed S-W
[16:10] <Volans> shutdown due to hight temperature?
[16:10] <fta2> but i know my CPU fan is not reliable
[16:12] <fta2> sometimes, the fan stops, the cpu overheats and the motherboard shuts everything down
[16:13] <Volans> I know, I have an old desktop with dapper that made the same sometimes... but I power on it only few times a month
[16:23] <asac> fta2: get a better fan
[16:25] <fta2> it's probably the motherboard
[16:38] <Sergeant_Pony> is libflashsupport needed for ff3 under ubuntu 8.04?
[16:43] <asac> Sergeant_Pony: not really
[16:43] <asac> Sergeant_Pony: flash is broken as it neither supports pulseaudio also plugin nor sound server directly
[16:44] <asac> thats why you cant play two streams at the same time in flash 9
[16:44] <asac> get flash 10 + install the pulseaudio plugin for alsa
[16:44] <asac> should work
[16:44] <asac> libflashsupport would fix the two streams issue, but will constantly crash your firefox
[16:54]  * asac => sports bbl
[18:06] <Sergeant_Pony> ok... sounds good to me. I'll try flash 10 and pulse plugin
[18:12] <newz2000> hi asac - last week I reported a problem with firefox using tons of ram. I installed a debugging package to hopefully help if it happened again. It is happening now - ff uses about 1.5G of RAM.
[18:15] <Volans> 1.5 GB ???
[18:15] <newz2000> it's up to 1.7G now
[18:16] <Volans> I have read this only a couple of days ago: http://dotnetperls.com/Content/Browser-Memory.aspx
[18:16] <newz2000> oh yeah, I saw that too
[18:16] <Volans> also if the test is on Windows
[18:16] <newz2000> (I think I know the article you mention, I can't see it now because my browser is thrashing)
[18:17] <Volans> asac tell he go away about 1 hour ago... I don't know when i come back
[18:17] <Volans> newz2000: how much ram do you have in the pc?
[18:17] <newz2000> 3G
[18:17] <Volans> in a short you have to kill firefox I think...
[18:18] <newz2000> interestingly, I did do that. Then I restarted it and it happens again.
[18:18] <newz2000> Sometimes this happens. If I restart it a few times it will finally work right.
[18:18] <Volans> sure to have killed all his istances'
[18:18] <Volans> ?
[18:18] <newz2000> yeah, because my mem usage dropped
[18:18] <Volans> maybe check with a: ps fax | grep fire
[18:19] <newz2000> I don't know how to use a debugger, but supposedly I have the debugging version of firefox installed
[18:19] <Volans> what kind of debugger? gdb?
[18:19] <newz2000> yeah
[18:19] <newz2000> know any way to find out what's happening?
[18:19] <Volans> you have to start from console firefox with gdb
[18:20] <newz2000> oh, you can't just hook into a running process then. :-/
[18:20] <newz2000> wow, 2.1G of RAM used by firefox.  That seems to have put me at some gdb command prompt
[18:25] <Volans> i have found: gdb firefox 1234
[18:25] <Volans> where 1234 is the PID
[18:27] <newz2000> what do you do when you get to the gdb prompt?
[18:30] <Volans> (or use ddd that have a GUI, but with 2 GB of RAM occupied by a single process starting another gui can be a not good idea)
[18:31] <newz2000> I've got plenty of ram free I think
[18:32] <Volans> which you use for seeing the RAM occupied by firefox?
[18:32] <newz2000> htop or top
[18:41] <Volans> newz2000: try thisone: ps -eo %mem,rss,%cpu,cmd | grep fire
[18:41] <newz2000> 73.6 2289240 63.6 /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox
[18:41] <newz2000> not sure what that means
[18:41] <Volans> the firs column is the %of mempory used, the 2nd is the kyloBytes of unswapped ram, the process use
[18:42] <Volans> the 3rd is the % of cpu used
[18:42] <Volans> 2.1 GB... no dubt!
[18:45] <newz2000> I'm going to get some lunch, maybe asac will be back later
[19:40] <asac> back
[19:40] <asac> newz2000: ?
[19:40] <newz2000> hey asac
[19:40] <newz2000> asac: are you interested in debugging my firefox?
[19:40] <newz2000> it's using 2.2G of RAM at the moment
[19:40] <asac> newz2000: if its memory consumption then no :)
[19:41] <asac> newz2000: its not really easy to debug. one way would be to use valgrind
[19:41] <asac> newz2000: but most likely its an extension
[19:41] <asac> newz2000: how long does it take till it reaches that much ram?
[19:42] <newz2000> It runs at 100% cpu (both cores) for a while, 5 - 30m if I let it and quickly gets to the 1.2G mark, then graudally up to where it is now.
[19:42] <newz2000> Nomrally I kill it long before this point though.
[19:42] <asac> newz2000: ok, so you can reproduce quite quickly?
[19:43] <newz2000> no, it doesn't happen commonly, but when it does it happens a couple times in a row
[19:47] <newz2000> so I kill ff and my mem usage drops from 2.5G to 383M used. :-)
[19:49] <newz2000> asac: is there a way to disable one extension at a time to diagnose the problem? (from outside firefox, since it takes several min before its usable)
[19:49] <asac> newz2000: hmm
[19:51] <asac> newz2000: you can add NS1:userDisabled="true" in the extensions.rdf file in your profile
[19:51] <asac> for the extension you want to diable
[19:51] <asac> disable
[19:51] <asac> but you have to stop ffox before doing that
[19:51] <asac> so doesnt really help you i guess
[19:51] <newz2000> no, that's fine. Just what I need
[19:54] <newz2000> it's so odd. If I kill firefox then the problem doesn't happen the next time around.
[19:55] <asac> heisenbug ;)
[20:19] <newz2000> I think it may be GTDInbox causing the problem
[20:22] <asac> newz2000: whats that?
[20:22] <newz2000> a plugin to help you use gmail as your todo list.
[20:22] <newz2000> and organize lots of email
[20:23] <newz2000> it worked great with ff2 but since ff3 its been struggling and I recently reenabled it.
[20:23] <newz2000> with it off, ff3 uses 229M of RAM
[20:23] <asac> interesting ;)
[20:23] <asac> newz2000: keep using it to be sure ;)
[20:24] <newz2000> the GTD stands for "Getting things done" and I can't get anything done when ff3 is locked up half the time. :-)
[22:17] <asac> Bug 237594


[00:05] <darkxst> semente, I think you were hitting this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1158750
[00:12] <jbicha> darkxst: by the way, gnome-control-center 3.8 doesn't do locales right for Ubuntu either
[00:19] <darkxst> jbicha, is it stripping off the ".utf-8" suffix also?
[00:23] <jbicha> I don't remember exactly
[00:56] <delac> does 13.04 support the "downward pressure" tray?
[01:00] <darkxst> delac, no, that requires the new Xserver
[01:01] <delac> darkxst: how new?
[01:01] <darkxst> Xorg 1.14, which is not in raring
[01:02] <delac> darkxst: too bad. thanks anyway
[01:07] <delac> also, seems that nautilus (3.8) search defaults to Reversed (view) Order. It can be changed during search, but the setting won't stick. Is this a (reported) bug?
[01:11] <darkxst> delac, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692663
[01:18] <delac> darkxst: seems I made the same mistake as reporter of Bug 688772, referenced in the first message. But that seems to have been taken care of (and hopefully soon in repos). Thanks.
[01:23] <delac> wrong bug, ubot5
[11:58] <ichat> hi i installed  ububuntu gnome yesterday,    but im having a few questions...
[11:58] <ichat> 1... the lockscreen acts as if my screen is a touch interface...  can i change it.. so that its more mouse driving...
[11:58] <roasted> ichat: you can either drag up or simply hit enter, iirc.
[11:58] <roasted> I have the Gnome3 PPA on 13.04, but on mine I just hit enter and it slides up on its own. Then I type pw to log in.
[11:59] <ichat> roasted:  a thanks i didn know this
[11:59] <roasted> :)
[12:02] <ichat> sinse ubuntu is going QT im not verry into main unity...  i often noticed that i could have a snapier desktop with  gtk apps than with qt..  and in truth,   i got used to it and im not about to change just because mark tells me to...
[13:29] <roasted> ichat: I have to admit, KDE 4.10 has brought some significant speed improvements to the table. Between GTK and Qt there's hardly a difference anymore (imho).
[13:52] <ichat> btw, doesnt gnome ship chromium instead of firefox...   i have to say that  since firefox 3.5 i find it less and less worthy of the name browser...  on windows i would even state that  IE is getting better at it than FF.    i know that some   chrome versions have disappointed me as well...  ...  firefox at times just looks as if its dying out from its own success
[13:56] <camelinahat> ichat, Ubuntu Gnome ships with Firefix, Gnome itself comes with Epiphany (aka Gnome Web), which is based off of Webkit (until recently similar to Chromium)
[14:31] <semente> darkxst: reading the comments, looks like the problem is that. thank you! gonna try later.. thanks
[15:18] <AnAnt> Hello
[15:18] <AnAnt> can someone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1154486 ?
[16:03] <ichat> camelinahat:  - is it safe to remove  epiphani...   from you system i prefer having just 1 browser installed
[16:28] <jbicha> ichat: yes you can remove epiphany-browser
[17:02] <camelinahat> Short of disabling the wireless card and re-enabling it, is there any way to force the wireless access point list to refresh? (in gnome network manager)
[17:15] <atrus`> camelinahat: running 'sudo iwlist scan' might trigger it
[17:16] <atrus`> i thought in the past i'd seen that trigger some event that network-manager would pick up
[17:19] <camelinahat> atrus`, Yeah I had tried that, and while iwlist picks up the AP's unfortunately the gnome-network-manager still doesn't refresh to show them
[18:32] <AnAnt> can someone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1154486 ?
[18:39] <jbicha> darkxst: you saw xnox's review of your system-config-printer merge proposal?
[19:16] <AnAnt> hmm
[20:42] <darkxst> jbicha, yes, will redo it against the right package in a bit
[21:35] <jbicha> darkxst: hey, sorry for the run-around, but I think we should have gnome-control-center depend or recommend on s-c-p-g instead
[21:38] <darkxst> jbicha, except doing it this way, its the same as ubuntu and other flavours
[21:38] <jbicha> I didn't realize that gnome wasn't fully replacing s-c-p
[21:40] <jbicha> since the "add printer" button doesn't work otherwise, I think we should fix the dependency problem at the source
[21:41] <darkxst> jbicha, ok
[21:41] <darkxst> btw are you seeing black backgroud in g-c-c sometimes?
[21:43] <darkxst> seems to happen only when launching via overview though. is fine when run from terminal
[22:07] <jbicha> darkxst: no, but I usually don't run the staging ppa as I like my computer working :)
[22:07] <jbicha> I usually run Settings from the terminal or from the user menu
[22:33] <darkxst> jbicha, launching it from anywhere in g-s causes the black background
[22:36] <darkxst> although works in a fresh install, but not on the systems that were upgraded from Q
[22:40] <jbicha> that's suspicious, there shouldn't be that noticable of a difference between upgrades and a clean install
[22:45] <darkxst> its not just g-c-c actually, d-conf editor has a black pane too
[22:53] <jbicha> oh, reminds me of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682395 but that bug shouldn't affect raring...
[22:56] <darkxst> can't reproduce with 'GTK_IM_MODULE=xim gnome-control-center'