[06:27] <tonyFlury> on ubuntu - is there a signiificant different between a service and a deamon process ?
[07:18] <dwatkins> hiya
[07:26] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:28] <danhg> morning all
[07:29] <dwatkins> Today I am mostly trying to confine my coughing to my cubicle
[07:29] <danhg> get some manuka honey
[07:41] <dwatkins> a mere £15 a jar
[07:41] <dwatkins> I assume it's good stuff, then, danhg :)
[07:44] <Myrtti> any honey would do
[07:45] <Myrtti> chrystalline one tends to work better for me, put it on a spoon and stick the spoon on the roof of my mouth and let it dissolve slowly
[07:45] <danhg> it is magic stuff. works wonders for cough/cold/sore throat
[07:45] <dwatkins> excellent, thanks :)
[07:46] <Myrtti> honey also makes lemsip more drinkable, seems to make it less acidic
[07:46] <czajkowski> aye cannot drink that stuff, take the tablet version
[07:46] <dwatkins> Yeah, I tend to add a spoonfull.
[07:53] <Myrtti> huh
[07:53] <Myrtti> my clock on the top bar has vanished
[07:53] <Myrtti> oh well.
[08:05] <DJones> Happy last day of the week in work for 10 days :)
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all you funky people
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[08:09] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:09] <bigcalm_laptop> Morning peeps :)
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
[08:21] <popey> Morning!
[08:26] <bigcalm_laptop> Hullo popey, how's Argos?
[08:26] <popey> heh, not been yet
[08:26] <popey> all packaged up ready to go though
[08:31] <davmor2> morning popey
[08:32] <davmor2> popey: did you get your ipad back by the way?
[08:32] <popey> davmor2: tnt tried to deliver it yesterday, we were out
[08:32] <popey> they're re-delivering today
[08:33] <popey> and it's a new one, not my old one ☺
[08:33] <DJones> What do you keep doing to these ipads? Isn't that the 3rd one you've had?
[08:33] <popey> no
[08:34] <popey> it's my first one that failed recently, out of warranty, apple said they'd fix/replace it, and the replacement is arriving from china today
[08:34] <DJones> Must be getting confused, probably thinking at the bloke at work who's already had one replaced
[08:34] <popey> which isn't bad service IMO
[08:34] <DJones> Definately not, certainly not something you'd complain about
[08:36] <popey> hah, just got a phone call from TNT saying my delivery is on the van ☺
[08:37] <popey> See, some companies know what service means ☺
[08:37]  * popey is looking at you, Microsoft
[08:41]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks it unlikely that Microsoft will be paying much attention to this channel.
[08:42] <davmor2> popey: nice
[08:43] <davmor2> mrevell: it looks like the lighthouse are down sizing due to funding so we won't have the greenhouse anymore we'll have to book the seating in the cafe if we intend to keep coming here :(
[08:54] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[09:00] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:00] <JamesTait> MooDoo: o/
[09:25] <oimon> didn't think i'd care about what logo/mascot cyanogen used, but the new proposed one looks like a scary alien :(
[09:26] <davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
[09:27] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: only unlikely I think you rate this channel too highly good sir :)
[09:33] <oimon> ubuntu one is failing me yet again :(
[09:33] <MooDoo> davmor2: hello matey, how's it going?
[09:34] <davmor2> MooDoo: too much to do too little time
[09:34] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:35] <oimon> morning
[09:35] <brobostigon> morning oimon
[09:36] <MooDoo> davmor2: same here, although i need to get it all done before 2 as that breakup for Bhols for me.
[10:16] <diplo> Morning all
[10:41] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 is playing footsie again
[10:41] <bigcalm_laptop> I wish to sue for sexual harassment
[10:41] <davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: you'll stay awake though
[10:44] <andylockran> hey guys and gals, how goes things?
[10:47] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: sue as he's not doing it enough or well enough ;)
[10:52] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: :D
[10:52] <bigcalm_laptop> <- tired :(
[10:52] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: <--- should be asleep then
[10:52] <MooDoo> :D
[10:53] <bigcalm_laptop> What do you lot think of people who do "air quotes" while talking?
[10:54] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: twats
[10:55]  * bigcalm_laptop giggles uncontrollably
[10:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: I'm going to prod you uncontrollably
[10:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello ello ello ello
[10:56] <bigcalm_laptop> gord has made me feel ill
[10:57]  * popey does 'air quotes' sometimes
[10:57] <gord> my candy brings all the boys to the yard, and their like "it made me feel ill"
[10:57] <czajkowski> gord: was this the stuff from the video/pics you G+?
[10:57] <czajkowski> popey: yes but you're not a twat :)
[10:57] <gord> czajkowski, nah different, umboshi candy, pickled plum
[10:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: I think this is a family channel and the word you used wouldn't be allowed :P#
[10:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: think you're over thinking the word
[10:58] <czajkowski> gord: ohh
[10:59] <bigcalm_laptop> I have a constant taste of bile in my mouth
[10:59] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: thank you for that lovely image
[10:59] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: go gargle some water
[11:00]  * bigcalm_laptop goes to gargle some bleach
[11:02]  * davmor2 calls for an ambulance for bigcalm_laptop
[11:03] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 is acting like a child who just wants attention
[11:04] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: thats not acting
[11:04] <czajkowski> :p
[11:04] <bigcalm_laptop> Hehehe
[11:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: Awesome!
[11:07] <andylockran> anyone recommend someplace to find enthusiatic young php oop developer nr central London?
[11:07] <czajkowski> davmor2: *glares*
[11:07] <BigRedS> andylockran: my brother'll be back in a couple of months

[11:08] <BigRedS> are you looking permanent or contract? I know a couple of contractors who aren't looking for work but might know people who are
[11:09]  * davmor2 awesomely tickles czajkowski with a cat and goes off to think of other things she hates
[11:09] <BigRedS> nobody can hate cats!
[11:11] <gordonjcp> cats are awesome
[11:11] <gordonjcp> without a cat, I'd still have mice in my house
[11:13] <czajkowski> I do
[11:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: liar
[11:14] <andylockran> BigRedS: I'm looking for either inexperienced, wanting to get some experience
[11:14] <andylockran> or contract
[11:16] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: what, hate cats or have mice?
[11:16] <gordonjcp> or both, for that matter
[11:17] <gord> i will teach my cat to do airquotes and then bring her to uds
[11:18] <czajkowski> gordonjcp: hate cats
[11:19] <czajkowski> gord: bring your own tea bags so
[11:19] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: hm, knew there was something wrong with you ;-)
[11:19] <gord> i think by this point we have proven that to be an impossibility :(
[11:21] <andylockran> BigRedS: Any chance you could ping over a CV at somepoint please?
[11:22] <czajkowski> gord: then you shall have 2 weeks without a propper cuppa
[11:23] <gord> someone will bring me tea bags! they have to
[11:23] <gordonjcp> gord: where are you?
[11:24] <BigRedS> andylockran: yeah, if I find someone :) Do you have a job description? Or is it basically anyone who can do OOP PHP and wants to get paid to do it better?
[11:24] <gord> lighthouse, why?
[11:26]  * czajkowski rings the lighthouse, tells them not to give gord any tea
[11:28]  * davmor2 buys gords tea too upset czajkowski all the more then hi 5's gord s cat for being awesome and doing air quotes
[11:39] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: can I have some of that hydraulic-acid please?
[11:41] <bigcalm_laptop> Screw it, I'm going to buy the micro server
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> µserver
[14:04] <oimon> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422 << anyone know how soon ubuntu was patched for this java bug?
[14:13] <arsen> oimon   - i think it was you east of the city? some huge flames out towards blackwall tunnel..
[14:13] <popey> oimon: jan 24th
[14:13] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html
[14:15] <ali1234> is Dr Web a person?
[14:16] <popey> que?
[14:16] <gord> yes
[14:35] <BigRedS> oimon: Looks like this CVE: http://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2012-0507
[14:35] <BigRedS> Oh, ther eis a ubuntu one
[14:35] <BigRedS> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2012/CVE-2012-0507.html
[14:35] <BigRedS> should've guessed, really
[14:36] <oimon> the ubuntu stuff seems to have got fixed in februaru
[14:36] <oimon> if this story is tue then apple should be spanked for its negligence
[14:37] <BigRedS> really? that implies that 11.10 and 12.04 are both still vulnerable with openjdk 7
[14:38] <BigRedS> though, oddly, Debian's fine in 7 but not 6
[14:40] <BigRedS> any rubyites?
[14:40] <BigRedS> Wondering why gem is doing this: http://pastebin.com/Ru6S4rPQ
[14:46] <bigcalm_laptop> How do I find out what the IP address of the DNS a machine is using?
[14:47] <BigRedS> cat /etc/resolv.conf
[14:47] <BigRedS> bigcalm_laptop: ^
[14:47] <bigcalm_laptop> BigRedS: aha, yes, thanks :)
[14:52] <BigRedS> no problem! Nice to see somebody ask a question I can answer :)
[15:02] <oimon> bigcalm, what's 1+1= ?
[15:02] <oimon> sorry BigRedS
[15:02] <oimon> :D
[15:05] <popey> 15:13:06 < popey> oimon: jan 24th
[15:05] <popey> 15:13:14 < popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html
[15:11] <oimon> popey, thats clever cos some alerts were released feb 14th :P
[15:11] <oimon> the power of ubunt
[15:11] <oimon> u
[15:13] <oimon> power cut across most of north london earlier :\
[15:15] <popey> oimon: *shrug* i just looked up the CVE on google
[15:16] <oimon> popey, ah, there were lots of cve's in their patch update
[15:16] <Azelphur> popey: think we could ninja this into the topic? http://bit.ly/xilcaH
[15:16] <oimon> i tihnk they do quarterly updates
[15:17]  * Azelphur wants more people to vote for it
[15:18] <BigRedS> oimon: :)
[15:19] <popey> Azelphur: probably better off on the mailing list
[15:19] <Azelphur> that means I have to sign up to the mailing list :o
[15:20] <popey> awful lot more people there than here
[15:21] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:34] <andylockran> howdy
[15:34]  * Azelphur waves
[15:41] <Azelphur> In other news, I think we should make this hat mandatory for all Linux related meetups in future: http://www.illtaketen.com/penguin-hat
[15:41] <zleap> lol
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_a8KszaPI
[15:46] <Azelphur> o.O
[16:25] <czajkowski> how do I ë  on a keyboard
[16:25] <czajkowski> thats a copy n paste before someone comments
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: right-alt ", e
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: (with UK + International bits)
[16:25] <popey> ²e
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: or right-alt + some letter near e
[16:25] <popey> ¶łðßđ
[16:26] <czajkowski> e¶
[16:26] <czajkowski> bah
[16:26] <czajkowski> e
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> there's a printable keymap in the keyboard preferences screen
[16:50] <czajkowski> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/04/brightbox-12-04-daily-images-now-available-discounts-for-testers-and-ubuntu-members/   FYI folks
[16:53] <ali1234> starting at £18/month per instance. still far too expensive
[16:54] <czajkowski> 50% for @ubuntu.com address ali1234
[16:55] <ali1234> the instances would need to cost under £2/month before it becomes feasible to use instead of standard VPS
[16:56] <czajkowski> ali1234: are you ever happy :)
[16:57] <BigRedS> ali1234: is it just a VPS with posh provisioning?
[16:57] <BigRedS> I was trying to work out what it was earlier
[16:57] <ali1234> no
[16:57] <ali1234> BigRedS: when you use "the cloud" you use lots of instances all managed automatically
[16:58] <ali1234> typically you end up with one or more instances for web server, one for database, one for load balancer etc
[16:58] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:58] <ali1234> so if you do that, you end up paying £80/month to run your website
[16:58] <ali1234> which is fine if you get a billion hits every month
[16:59] <BigRedS> Oh hang on
[16:59] <BigRedS> I thought this was the metal-as-a-service thing
[16:59]  * BigRedS should read up more often
[17:00] <ali1234> no this is AWS compatible supposedly
[17:00] <ali1234> er, EC2 compatible
[17:00] <dogmatic69> is it safe using ssh keys with no password?
[17:00] <ali1234> MaaS looks like the solution to the problem that getting loads of instances is currently prohibitively expensive
[17:00] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: relatively
[17:00] <BigRedS> depends how secure the key is
[17:01] <dogmatic69> I want to auto mount folders from the network on login but that requires ssh and my key has a pw so it cant be automatic
[17:01] <BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but surely all teh work still needs to be done. Is is canonical turning up with a bunch of racks and plugging them in for you?
[17:01] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: then you need a passphraseless key
[17:01] <ali1234> no
[17:01] <BigRedS> they're used for that sort of thing allthe time
[17:01] <ali1234> that's not the point
[17:02] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: its a local network too, so I guess that make is 'more safe'
[17:02] <ali1234> end user isn't going to buy MaaS. cloud providers will. it should enable more flexibility in instances
[17:02] <dogmatic69> I want to open the server to the www though
[17:03] <BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but what is it? I don't get what it does. We're not a cloud provider, but we do sell big clusters. Is it appropriate there?
[17:04] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: it should be fine. the connection is equally secure, all the passphrase does is mean that the key on its own is worth less to an attacker
[17:04] <dogmatic69> ye
[17:04] <BigRedS> maybe I should reade more than just the press releases
[17:04] <BigRedS> they all seem awfully manager-centric
[17:05] <dogmatic69> thanks BigRedS
[17:22] <xr1rr> wondered if some people could fill in this questionnaire https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZfeDZ3Zm5CYVBrdnh1eGFfa0xONHc6MQ#gid=0
[17:22] <AlanBell> why?
[17:22] <popey> er
[17:23] <popey> no way I'm filling that in.
[17:23] <xr1rr> its about phishing for my research report
[17:23] <popey> "Do you use the same password for more than one account? "
[17:23] <popey> "Do you use the same user-name or ID on multiple accounts? "
[17:23] <popey> "Do you change your passwords often? "
[17:23] <Azelphur> haha
[17:23] <dogmatic69> lol
[17:23] <Azelphur> I think I'm going to score terribly on this test
[17:23] <dogmatic69> "can I have your pw:"
[17:23] <xr1rr> no you getting wrong idea
[17:23] <Azelphur> Do you change your passwords often? - no, I don't need to XD
[17:24] <xr1rr> It's for a college research report about phishing
[17:24] <Azelphur> Do I click links? Sure but that's because I'm confident in my security
[17:24] <Azelphur> I deliberately mess with phishing sites for fun
[17:24] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:24] <dogmatic69> xr1rr: I think you are asking the wrong target market. everyone here will know/understand phishing
[17:25] <xr1rr> dogmatic69: just having a problem to get the amount of people to reply, I need 150
[17:25] <dogmatic69> xr1rr: you tried your fb account?
[17:25] <Azelphur> Would you be concerned if a Business had been attacked by phishing and personal or sensitive data was stolen?
[17:25] <Azelphur> my sensitive information? or other peoples xD
[17:25] <xr1rr> dogmatic69: yh
[17:25] <dogmatic69> make the form look like barclays or something, email it around.. etc
[17:26] <dogmatic69> that will get people filling it in
[17:26] <dogmatic69> :)
[17:26] <Azelphur> haha
[17:26] <xr1rr> Azelphur: if I dont ask these questions, how can I create research data
[17:27] <Azelphur> nah it's an interesting questionaire, I just filled it in and submitted
[17:27] <Azelphur> but as dogmatic69 says, wrong target market, we all know what we are doing
[17:27] <dogmatic69> gender: other :S
[17:27] <popey> indeed, you need to ask people in the street, not tech-savvy linux users
[17:27] <Azelphur> I'd be quite confident in that I could do whatever I wanted with the contents of an email or a webpage and maintain security of my computer, including opening attachments (even executable ones), and viewing malicious webpages.
[17:28] <xr1rr> Azelphur: have had replies from a lot of different people but just had hard time finding lots of people to do it
[17:28] <Azelphur> yea :)
[17:28] <xr1rr> so just thought about asking here
[17:29] <xr1rr> but that kinda back fired
[17:29] <xr1rr> lol
[17:29] <Azelphur> haha, hasn't really backfired, it's sparked conversation ;)
[17:29] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: about clicking links / dl'ing email attachments. ever since ubuntu, all the time :D
[17:29] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: exactly, can pretty much do whatever you want
[17:29] <dogmatic69> on windows I will SHIFT + DELETE it without blinking
[17:30] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: when people send me phishing sites, if I'm bored, I have some python, give it the details of the HTML form element, and it'll pummel it with fake account information (hopefully) rendering their database useless
[17:30] <xr1rr> Azelphur: yeah attachments not to much of a problem here
[17:30] <dogmatic69> talking about that, everyone seen how osx has been owned?
[17:30] <xr1rr> good point
[17:30] <xr1rr> lol
[17:30] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, 600,000 machines infected or something XD
[17:30] <dogmatic69> ye
[17:30] <dogmatic69> it was 540k a day or two ago, now 600k
[17:31] <Azelphur> It's really funny when the sites go 404 shortly after ;)
[17:31] <dogmatic69> I help phishing sites with scalability issues, apache ab etc
[17:31] <Azelphur> oh yea, always gotta help them with scalability
[17:32] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: mine helps with both webserver and database scalability! :D
[17:32] <dogmatic69> :D
[17:32] <dogmatic69> I been messing with bots lately, got sick of the spam
[17:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:33] <dogmatic69> my site does not use any form of user capture, not one spam message in 2 months now
[17:33] <dogmatic69> :)
[17:33] <Azelphur> that's fancy, how'd you pull that off?
[17:33] <dogmatic69> I have been improving it all along, worst was 4 or 5 per minute.
[17:34] <dogmatic69> got a rating system + honey pots
[17:34] <Azelphur> rating system?
[17:34] <Azelphur> I've been having issues on my site too and hate captchas
[17:34] <dogmatic69> https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/blob/beta/Core/Comments/Model/Behavior/CommentableBehavior.php#L277-310
[17:34] <popey> I ♥  captchas!
[17:35] <dogmatic69> popey--
[17:35] <dogmatic69> :D
[17:35] <dogmatic69> after sparkfun free day... dislike
[17:36] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: basically that does some rudimentary checks and gives a score -ve is bad, +ve is good, 0ish for manual review, is it full of links, has the message been submitted before, how many points does the user already have etc
[17:36] <Azelphur> ah cool
[17:37] <dogmatic69> if points are low its just discarded and shown a 404
[17:37] <Azelphur> I was after stopping the signup
[17:37] <Azelphur> as well as comments
[17:37] <dogmatic69> as in -40 or something, if its -5ish would require manual activation
[17:37] <dogmatic69> honeytrap works a treat.
[17:38] <dogmatic69> just add something like <input type="hidden" name="foobar" /> and if that gets set I redirect them to /?bot=true. my code is all oop so if that happens all of a sudden no matter what, all links on the site are /?bot=true
[17:38] <dogmatic69> every single one
[17:41] <dogmatic69> its sort of like saying innocent until proven guilty.. not like most sites where every visitor is a spam bot
[17:44] <ali1234> "Do you click links on an email even if you do not know the sender of the email?"
[17:45] <ali1234> yes of course I do
[17:45] <xr1rr> feel it in then ;)
[17:45] <ali1234> the sender of the email has almost nothing to do with whther it is safe or not
[17:45] <BigRedS> yeah, where the link goes is more interesting, really
[17:45] <ali1234> i get as much crap and viruses from people I know as people i don't
[17:45] <ali1234> if not more
[17:45] <ali1234> because the stuff from unknowns just gets blocked
[17:50] <ali1234> how do you change default web browser?
[17:51] <ali1234> oh it's in "details"... that makes sense
[17:51] <popey> ali1234: bug 974473  is something you've experienced before?
[17:52] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974473 in unity "Most recently opened window doesn't get focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974473
[17:52] <popey> (suspect it's a compiz bug not unity)
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah i've experienced that a lot. but not recently
[17:52] <ali1234> it comes and goes
[17:52] <popey> i have it with a clean new user
[17:52] <ali1234> it was fixed once
[17:52] <ali1234> then it came back
[17:52] <popey> can you try now?
[17:53] <ali1234> i disabled all windows key interaction from unity
[17:53] <ali1234> i never used it
[17:53] <ali1234> so i can't say it's the same bug or not
[17:54] <popey> well, you dont need windows key
[17:55] <popey> happens if you click nautilus in the launcher
[17:55] <popey> IME
[17:55] <ali1234> ok i can reproduce
[17:56] <ali1234> only with nautilus though
[17:56] <ali1234> ok i can reproduce with pidgin/firefox too
[17:57] <popey> great, thank you
[17:58] <ali1234> ok this is dumb
[17:58] <ali1234> there's at least three places where you can configure the "default" browser
[17:59] <ali1234> there's the cntrol panel thing in "details"
[17:59] <ali1234> there's sudo update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
[17:59] <ali1234> and there's the third way, the way that actually works
[18:01] <popey> dont think I have ever used the update-alternatives method
[18:02] <ali1234> the third way
[18:02] <ali1234> Run gconf-editor , edit the /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http(s) keys to your liking. In my case "firefox %s".
[18:02] <ali1234> nice work gnome
[18:02] <BigRedS> aha!
[18:03] <BigRedS> I was trying to remember the third way the other day
[18:03] <ali1234> of course that key doesn't exist
[18:04] <BigRedS> well, it'd be too easy if it did
[18:07] <GreenDance> Hello Everyone!
[18:07] <GreenDance> :)
[18:07] <GreenDance> sorry it's been a while.
[18:19]  * AlanBell has just requested the 12.04 loco CD allocation
[18:19] <GreenDance> AlanBell, do you by any chance know why the Ubuntu team have chosen to not support the raspberry pi
[18:20] <BigRedS> I guess it's a big bunch of work to get an arm6 kernel together and the point of the raspberry pi isn't really to be a desktop system
[18:21] <BigRedS> s/kernel/distro/
[18:21] <ali1234> what *is* the point of the raspberry pi?
[18:21] <ali1234> all i ever hear about it is what it is not supposed to be
[18:21] <BigRedS> education!
[18:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> ARM6 was dropped from Ubuntu after 9.04 I think. So quite a while ago.
[18:21] <BigRedS> just don't ask for more clarification than that
[18:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: It's to play about with.
[18:22] <BigRedS> I think it's great as an arduino for people who don't want to solder
[18:22] <BigRedS> that's what I want one for
[18:22] <ali1234> wat
[18:22] <ali1234> that is wrong on so many levels
[18:22] <ali1234> allow me to enumerate them
[18:22] <BigRedS> rather than mess around with actual components, I'll get a small, low-power, general-purpose PC
[18:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Might make a rather useful thin-client too.
[18:22] <ali1234> firstly, the arduino is solderless and the raspberry pi isn't
[18:22] <BigRedS> and use software to make it do my bidding
[18:23] <ali1234> in order to add gpio to raspberry pi, you have to solder in a header
[18:23] <ali1234> secondly, the raspberry pi is nothing at all like an arduino
[18:23] <BigRedS> alright, s/solderdeal with components/
[18:23] <ali1234> one of them has full documentation and schematics
[18:24] <ali1234> the other doesn't
[18:24] <BigRedS> you don't need schematics for the pi because you're manipulating it in software rather than hardware
[18:24] <GreenDance> It's a shame the ubuntu team don't want to help the raspberry pi team.
[18:24] <GreenDance> imo*
[18:24] <GreenDance> Education is important
[18:24] <ali1234> and you don't need components for the arduino if you only want to do things in software
[18:25] <BigRedS> why is it a shame?
[18:25] <ali1234> besides which, no amount of components soldered to an arduino will make it anything like a raspberry pi
[18:25] <BigRedS> I don't see who gains from being able to put Ubuntu on a pi
[18:25] <ali1234> because the arduino is based on a microcontroller. it is designed to turn on and off gpios and not much else
[18:25] <GreenDance> because, with the fact the raspberry pi is so cheap, many people can buy one, but won't be able to use ubuntu, they will have to choose something else.
[18:25] <BigRedS> no, because they're completely different. But the pi fills the same "cool cheap thing to mess around with" function as teh arduino does, but it's *not* a hardware-hacking thing, it's a playing-with-software one
[18:26] <ali1234> the raspberry pi is pretty mucht he opposite of that. it is designed for proprietary multimedia systems
[18:26] <BigRedS> GreenDance: yes. But they don't want ubuntu
[18:26] <BigRedS> because they wont be able to run a usable desktop on it anyway
[18:26] <BigRedS> so they may as well run debian
[18:26] <BigRedS> and they can
[18:26] <GreenDance> BigRedS, raspberry pi want ubuntu, ubuntu don't want the raspberry pi
[18:26] <BigRedS> GreenDance: yes
[18:27] <BigRedS> because ubuntu means free marketing. There is no problem that is solved by Ubuntu being avilable on the pi
[18:27] <ali1234> if raspberry pi really wanted ubuntu they should have designed it around a more modern ARM core with a more accessible GPU
[18:27] <GreenDance> ali1234 it's all about the cost
[18:28] <ali1234> yes
[18:28] <BigRedS> yeah, and if it's low cost you make compromises
[18:28] <BigRedS> like not getting support from things that don't support ancient hardware
[18:28] <ali1234> or in other words, if you are too cheap to run ubuntu, that's your own problem
[18:28] <GreenDance> hangon......
[18:29] <GreenDance> so, all the families who are poor, it's their problem they can't aford a computer?
[18:29] <BigRedS> No
[18:29] <BigRedS> they can have a computer
[18:29] <ali1234> they can have a computer
[18:29] <BigRedS> they don't want a raspberry pi instead of a PC though
[18:29] <ali1234> just not one that runs ubuntu
[18:29] <ali1234> like they also can't have one that runs apple
[18:29] <BigRedS> and, if they do, why on earth would they want to put ubuntu on it? They'd want the most pared down lightweight thing they can find
[18:29] <BigRedS> else they'll never get anything done on it
[18:29] <ali1234> that whole "ubuntu is for everyone" thing went out the window a long time ago btw
[18:30] <GreenDance> i guess i missed that ali1234
[18:30] <ali1234> ubuntu is now only for people who support the ideals of ubuntu
[18:30] <GreenDance> i don't know where i was when that happened
[18:30] <BigRedS> but they'd be much better off joining one of the schemes to help them get an actual PC
[18:30] <BigRedS> or just getting an old PC from friends or whatever
[18:30] <ali1234> yep, if you don't have a PC, raspberry pi will be useless to you
[18:30] <ali1234> because you won't get the thing to work without a debugging system
[18:31] <ali1234> if you are poor and you don't have a PC i will give you one for free, and it will run ubuntu
[18:31] <ali1234> however, it will not be a raspberry pi
[18:31] <ali1234> it will be cobbled together from old bits
[18:32] <ali1234> also it will be extremely slow
[18:32] <ali1234> it will run ubuntu but only if you are very very patient
[18:32] <ali1234> it will still be faster than the raspberry pi though
[18:36] <AlanBell> GreenDance: yes, it is about the ARMv6 instruction set
[18:37] <AlanBell> someone could compile ubuntu for it and build the repos for it, but it wouldn't really be real Ubuntu without a fully maintained repository
[18:38] <AlanBell> they were contemplating shipping something like Ubuntu 8.10 on it and that has run on the raspberry pi
[18:38] <AlanBell> I asked them not to do that, as it is going to be old and unsupportable and un-upgradeable
[18:38] <dwatkins> The Raspberry Pi only has 256 MB of RAM, it wouldn't run many apps.
[18:39] <AlanBell> so users would have a bad experience, and I don't want them having a bad experience and blaming Ubuntu
[18:39] <popey> s/many apps/the desktop/
[18:39] <dwatkins> ah yes, popey
[18:39] <AlanBell> also putting ubuntu on it sets entirely the wrong expectations
[18:39] <AlanBell> it would be a PC that isn't very good, rather than an educational computer to do interesting things with
[18:40] <dwatkins> yeah, I see the Raspberry Pi as more of a device for a single purpose than a desktop computer I could run any application on
[18:40] <AlanBell> so people can run debian on it, and python stuff, I expect a lot of the unity stuff would run on it if someone wanted to do so
[18:41] <AlanBell> you can also swap out the SD card very easily, I can see them being used like cartridges on a games console
[18:41] <dwatkins> yeah
[18:41] <AlanBell> you have a stack of them that boot into different personalities
[18:42]  * popey is looking forward to getting one to play with
[18:42]  * dwatkins too
[18:43] <dwatkins> I ordered a case, also
[18:43] <AlanBell> I have one ordered
[18:43] <AlanBell> where did you order the case from?
[18:43] <popey> hope mine comes in time to take to UDS
[18:43] <dwatkins> http://www.modmypi.com/products.php AlanBell
[18:45] <penguin42> what's the current guess on when a Pi might turn up?
[18:46] <popey> mine is still due wc 16/4
[18:46] <dwatkins> Mid-May, I gather
[18:46] <popey> fingers crossed
[18:47] <GreenDance> does anyone here by any chance have an android mobile?
[18:49]  * dwatkins does
[18:49]  * BigRedS does
[18:51] <GreenDance> I have been tinkering with mine today, trying to get it to boot faster, so i deleted 2 files, one was bootanimation and the other was the same name with 2 extra letters at the end of it, now during boot i have 10 seconds of black screen, can this be fixed please?
[18:52] <BigRedS> oh. I don't do those sorts of things with my phone
[18:53] <GreenDance> I thought by deleting the t-mobile boot animation my mobi would be faster on boot, nope :(
[18:54] <dwatkins> I imagine the amount of time it takes to display the boot animation images is negleigble, GreenDance.
[18:54] <dwatkins> I replaced my boot animation with R2D2 ;)
[18:55] <dwatkins> http://gadgetfeel.com/how-to-install-custom-boot-animation-in-android/ GreenDance - modify system files at your own risk etc.etc.
[18:59] <mikeatvillage> Hello folks. I have ubuntu 10.04 with Gnome.  How do I stop the display going blank after period of inactivity?
[19:01] <dwatkins> mikeatvillage: system -> preferences -> power management (or screensaver)
[19:01] <bigcalm> Evenin' peeps :)
[19:01] <mikeatvillage> Power management setting at 'Never' but still blanks :-(
[19:03] <mikeatvillage> Oh I am such a twat... screensaver is "Blank screen" :-))
[19:04] <dwatkins> mikeatvillage: another mystery solved :) please mind your language, though, it's a family show :)
[19:05] <mikeatvillage> dwatkins: My apologies :-)
[19:06] <dwatkins> also, welcome to #ubuntu-uk, mikeatvillage
[19:11] <popey> greetings mikeatvillage
[19:11] <popey> welcome to the funny farm
[19:11] <bigcalm> Description: PROLIANT N40L 1P 2GB-U INT SATA 250GB 1Y
[19:11] <bigcalm> Status: shipped
[19:12]  * bigcalm will be watching the front door from tomorrow morning until Tuesday evening
[19:12] <mikeatvillage> Thank you.
[19:15] <dwatkins> bigcalm: don't you have kids or pets to do that for you? ;)
[19:15] <bigcalm> dwatkins: neither
[19:17] <dwatkins> me neither, I cheat and have stuff delivered to work
[19:17] <bigcalm> I work from home
[19:18] <dwatkins> ah I see
[19:18] <bigcalm> Though it's a 4 day weekend, I don't expect to see DPD any time before Tuesday
[19:19] <dwatkins> new server?
[19:19] <bigcalm> Currently my server is an Acer Revo :)
[19:19] <bigcalm> Thought it was about time to have something a little more sensible
[19:19] <bigcalm> And I'm getting 100 quid cash back
[19:20] <bigcalm> https://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/658553-421
[19:21] <dwatkins> nifty
[19:21] <penguin42> bigcalm: Yeh those are nice - a friend has one
[19:21] <dwatkins> A lot cheaper than I expected, too. I guess it's just the machine on its own.
[19:22] <bigcalm> dwatkins: aye, no OS. Will be getting 12.04
[19:22] <bigcalm> Pendulum: popey has been pleased with his, so I thought why not?
[19:22] <penguin42> bigcalm: One bit of advice, if you need to remove the SAS connector plug to the motherboard, do it carefully, if it doesn't want to budge stop and reconsider; a friend managed to remove the socket from the board, and looking around a few people have
[19:22] <dwatkins> I run 10.04 on an Atom-based netbook at 1.6 GHz, does the job for me for fileserving and ssh, http etc.
[19:22] <bigcalm> Oh my
[19:23] <bigcalm> What is the SAS connector and why would I want to remove it?
[19:23] <dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, I've done that myself too
[19:23] <dwatkins> even a normal SATA port can end up coming off if you yank the cable the wrong way
[19:23] <penguin42> bigcalm: All the SATA connections goes through one 4 lane SAS connector to the motherboard, it's a standard connector but the clips are sometimes a bit dodgy
[19:23] <bigcalm> I see
[19:23] <bigcalm> Duly noted, thanks :)
[19:24] <AlanBell> I like the back to brown pangolin wallpaper
[19:27] <popey> \o/ microserver
[19:27] <bigcalm> popey: same as your one?
[19:30] <dwatkins> bigcalm & popey: I'd be very interested to know how warm those machines get when idling
[19:32] <popey> no idea
[19:32] <popey> no bigcalm mine is an n36L, older, slower but much the same
[19:32] <bigcalm> Ah
[19:32] <popey> mine has 5 disks in it, so probably gets warmer than others
[19:32] <popey> and a drive bay attached with 4 more disks
[19:32] <bigcalm> Oh my
[19:36] <penguin42> popey: 9 disks on a poor little microserver!
[19:39] <popey> yeah
[19:39] <popey> :D
[19:39] <popey> internal 4 on RAID10
[19:39] <popey> ooh watchdog bit on iphone 4s on bbc1
[19:40] <daubers> popey: Apple say they're holding it wrong?
[19:40] <popey> oh they're moaning about location features
[19:42] <popey> well that wasn't worth watching :D
[19:43] <popey> oh, now a bit about laptops
[19:43] <popey> i love watchdog
[19:46]  * Laney is catching up on the apprentice
[19:46] <Laney> Quality Television™
[19:46] <popey> hehe, segment all about how expensive wifi is in hotels
[19:47] <mikeatvillage> I'm watching steam trains on BBC4 - I hate laptops :-)
[19:48] <popey> \o/ trains
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: the Tube series thing was cool!
[19:49] <popey> yeah, i didnt see them all
[19:49] <Laney> ♥ BBC4
[19:49] <popey> but the ones i did see were entertaining/enlightening/scary
[19:49] <popey> ♥ BBC
[19:49]  * brobostigon is nerding out on new BBT eps, on e4.
[19:49] <popey> BBT?
[19:49] <Laney> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/p4zrw/materials--series-1---1-metal-how-it-works this sounds good later
[19:49] <Laney> big bang theory
[19:49] <brobostigon> popey: big bang theory.
[19:49] <popey> ahh
[19:50] <bigcalm> I ♥♥ Dr. Who
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> Dr. Vho?
[19:51] <bigcalm> Laney: looks good
[19:51] <bigcalm> It's already on the iPlayer
[19:51]  * bigcalm watches
[19:51] <bigcalm> Scrub that
[19:52]  * bigcalm leeches
[19:53] <mikeatvillage> Images of Barry scrapyard :-(
[19:56] <popey> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ur09MPySyig/T33IS8OjF0I/AAAAAAAAMVo/A2Jsx0MT6y0/w239/abd-232.gif
[19:56] <popey> tee hee
[19:59] <bigcalm> Haha
[20:40] <bigcalm> Delivery Status: Your parcel has been received at our sortation hub
[20:41] <penguin42> oh one of those
[20:41] <bigcalm> Sortation? The English language is constantly evolving
[20:41] <czajkowski> AlanBell: http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2012/04/05/ordering-your-12-04-cds-for-loco-teams-is-now-available/
[20:42] <penguin42> bigcalm: I don't know why they don't say sorting office
[20:44] <AlanBell> czajkowski: already done it
[20:44] <czajkowski> cool
[20:46] <bigcalm> Location: Hub 3 - Birmingham
[20:46] <bigcalm> I could drive there right now!
[20:47] <penguin42> bigcalm: The paths they take are nuts - 100-200 miles for something that's 10miles as the penguinf lies
[20:48] <bigcalm> When my Nexus One was shipped from the USA, it went up and down the country 4 times because Google hadn't given UPS the correct address detail
[20:50] <penguin42> sniff - they're killing off Tesco Value
[20:53] <Azelphur> wat :o
[21:00] <penguin42> Azelphur: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17622856
[21:00] <Azelphur> noes, not tesco value :(
[21:21] <bigcalm> Delivery Status: In Transit
[21:21] <bigcalm> I have a feeling that I may have a new server tomorrow :S
[21:26] <czajkowski> bank holiday?
[21:27] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:28] <bigcalm> Either it'll be delivered tomorrow or it'll sit at the local depot until Tuesday morning
[21:28] <zleap> they may deliver saturday
[21:28] <zleap> if not its 4 days with no post,
[21:28] <bigcalm> Maybe
[21:29] <bigcalm> There was a delivery option for Saturday, at much higher cost. So might not get it then
[21:31] <czajkowski> bigcalm: tomorrow is a bank holiday no?
[21:31] <czajkowski> so if you didnt get it today and didnt pay for saturday you wont get it till tuesday
[21:32] <bigcalm> czajkowski: it is, yes
[21:32] <bigcalm> I ordered it today
[21:32] <bigcalm> I'm surprised that they have moved it anywhere at all
[21:32] <directhex> whose suggestion was whole earth organic sparkling cola? ali1234?
[21:34] <ali1234> yeah
[21:35] <ali1234> don't blame me if it's horrible though
[21:35] <ali1234> i mean i'm not a cola expert
[21:35] <directhex> this is the most bizarre flavour i've ever tried. might be the agave?
[21:35] <directhex> sadly it arrived flat as a pancake :/
[21:35] <ali1234> flat??
[21:36] <ali1234> in a can?
[21:36] <ali1234> how can?
[21:36] <bigcalm> Squashed under a heavy load?
[21:36] <directhex> heavily impacted, courtesy of the couriers
[21:36] <ali1234> but... wouldn't it have leaked out everywhere then?
[21:36] <directhex> ali1234: nope. just knocked the carbonation out.
[21:37] <AlanBell> it should disolve back in again (or explode when you open it)
[21:38] <ali1234> yeah that's what i would have thought
[21:38] <ali1234> flat cola always tastes weird anyway
[21:40] <directhex> yeah, but i know what to expect from the taste of flat cola. this ain't it. must be the agave
[21:40] <directhex> don't think i'[ve ever had agave-sweetened cola
[21:41] <directhex> don't think it occurred to me as an option, tbh!
[21:43] <popey> where'd you get it?
[21:43] <directhex> AlanBell: okay, a tiny bit has re-dissolved. but i can count the bubbles floating to the surface
[21:44] <directhex> popey: naturalcollection.com
[21:45] <popey> 95p!
[21:45] <popey> better taste bloody great
[21:46] <popey> ikonia: btw, you missed a trick, should have registered omgcola ☺
[21:47] <bigcalm> Heh
[22:05] <popey> bug 974017
[22:05] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974017 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Crash when touching trackpad with 10 fingers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974017
[22:06] <bigcalm> lol
[22:06] <popey> indeed
[22:11] <dogmatic69> Not sure if I am making this up, but I am sure I read somewhere of having a terminal open and you can logout / in to the server and 'resume the session'
[22:11] <dogmatic69> is this possible?
[22:11] <AlanBell> that would be byobu
[22:13] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: for me?
[22:13] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: yes
[22:13] <AlanBell> !info byobu
[22:13] <lubotu3`> byobu (source: byobu): powerful, text based window manager and shell multiplexer. In component main, is optional. Version 4.37-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 74 kB, installed size 700 kB
[22:13] <AlanBell> so you log in, type byobu then do stuff
[22:13] <dogmatic69> so its installed on the server then
[22:14] <ali1234> use screen instead
[22:14] <dogmatic69> :/
[22:14] <AlanBell> close the terminal, or press "ctrl+a d" then log back in and type byobu and you are back where you were
[22:14] <ali1234> it's like byobu except without all the distracting numbers and keyboard shortcuts
[22:14] <AlanBell> and you can press f9 to get a help thing in byobu
[22:15] <AlanBell> and F2 to create a new terminal window and F3 and F4 to move between terminal windows
[22:15] <dogmatic69> ye, just opened byobu and its like I need ad block for terminal :D
[22:15] <ali1234> ctrl-a c and ctrl-a n respectively, in screen
[22:16] <popey> same in byobu
[22:16] <ali1234> byobu is actually a profile for screen
[22:16] <AlanBell> screen is the same thing (or tmux) but with less refinement
[22:16] <AlanBell> it is a profile for tmux now
[22:16] <AlanBell> in 12.04
[22:16] <ali1234> except yes, sometimes byobu is actually tmux, which isn;t compatible with screen and a lot more buggy
[22:16] <popey> but maintained ☺
[22:16] <popey> BED!
[22:17] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: F9 then toggle status notifications
[22:17] <AlanBell> you can turn on and off the stuff
[22:18] <dogmatic69> hmm.. this might be more confusing than I thought
[22:18] <ali1234> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git
[22:18] <ali1234> looks maintained to me
[22:19] <dogmatic69> 4 commits in 5 months != maintained
[22:19] <dogmatic69> 5 the whole of last year only
[22:19] <AlanBell> tbh I can't tell the difference between screen and tmux versions of byobu, just the screen version doesn't display esoteric unicode
[22:20] <ali1234> the tmux version can't start up in detached mode
[22:20] <AlanBell> screen is pretty much "finished" so there won't be a lot of exciting commits to it
[22:20] <ali1234> which means you can't start a session from a statup script
[22:21] <dogmatic69> ha, if you do screen. go to some folder, close terminal. open it again, ssh back to server and run byobu its back to screen
[22:21] <dogmatic69> and it does not have the notices etc
[22:22] <AlanBell> yeah, it would do :)
[22:22] <dogmatic69> defiantly just a wrapper then
[22:22] <ali1234> yes because byobu is reattaching to the existing session rather than making a new one
[22:22] <ali1234> the main difference between tmux and screen is screen is oriented around multiple "fullscreen" terminals that you switch between
[22:22] <dogmatic69> ye
[22:22] <ali1234> but tmux is about splitting up the one terminal into lots of tiny sub windows
[22:22] <ali1234> which is just confusing
[22:23] <ali1234> screen can do splits but they aren't part of the session. they go away if you disconnect
[22:23] <AlanBell> just run tmux in screen in tmux for the best of all worlds \o/
[22:24] <dogmatic69> looking at it, it could be nice. it has download speed and cpu usage etc
[22:24] <ali1234> that is actuallypossible, if you change the hotkeys for each nested level
[22:25] <ali1234> some people like to make every terminal window on their system into a byobu
[22:25] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: you can run an irssi session in (screen/byobu/tmux) which is nice
[22:25] <ali1234> these people are crazy and end up doing exactly this
[22:25] <dogmatic69> i keep hearing about that, irc or something
[22:25] <ali1234> yeah, running irc in screen is popular
[22:26] <AlanBell> top tip, run your irssi session on a backup server
[22:26] <ali1234> the advantage is you can run it on a server and appear to be connected all the tie
[22:26] <dogmatic69> ye
[22:26] <AlanBell> then you know if the backup server isn't working
[22:26] <dogmatic69> :D
[22:26] <ali1234> the disadvantage is you have to use a crappy terminal based irc client like iirsi
[22:26] <dogmatic69> I have been looking at building a NAS / backup (I know now its two different things)
[22:27] <dogmatic69> I bought a blade server for home, sounds like the vacuum clear is running :D
[22:27] <dogmatic69> need matching storage / backups
[22:29] <AlanBell> small servers tend to be noisy
[22:29] <dogmatic69> how easy would it be to reproduce something like the 'you have mail' that pops up in terminal, with say apache errors?
[22:30] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: its a 1U, huge compared to my desktop
[22:30]  * AlanBell tries to parse what dogmatic69 said
[22:30] <AlanBell> yeah, 1u servers are often screamers
[22:31] <dogmatic69> when your mail is not configured properly... you get notifications in terminal.
[22:31] <ali1234> dogmatic69: as we found out the other day, php can email you on error
[22:32] <dogmatic69> ali1234: I would like it in the console while deving. no more tail -f /what/is/the/damn/path/again.err
[22:32] <dogmatic69> almost like desktop alerts, but in terminal
[22:33] <AlanBell> that sounds like a reasonable use for tmux actually
[22:33] <ali1234> you want the errors to spam all over the console?
[22:33] <dogmatic69> eg, logged into my server...
[22:33] <dogmatic69> Welcome to Ubuntu!
[22:33] <ali1234> tail -f /whatever &
[22:33] <dogmatic69>  * Documentation:  https://help.ubuntu.com/
[22:33] <dogmatic69> You have new mail.
[22:33] <dogmatic69> Last login: Wed Apr  4 16:37:21 2012 from <ip>
[22:33] <ali1234> that's going to get annoying though
[22:33] <dogmatic69> ali1234: well it would only happen while I am actively developing a site.
[22:34] <dogmatic69> its not like I browse my dev sites for fun while using terminal
[22:34] <dogmatic69> It would need a demon monitoring the logs and then somehow spitting them out when changes are detected
[22:35] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: in byobu look at the "default windows" stuff
[22:36] <AlanBell> there is a preset that does Every 10.0s: tail -n 5 /var/log/syslog /var/log/auth.log /var/log/dmesg
[22:36] <dogmatic69> I was just fiddling them
[22:36] <dogmatic69> ye, I had that.. that is annoying. you have to ctrl+c to get back
[22:37] <AlanBell> no, you create more windows
[22:37] <AlanBell> with F2
[22:37] <AlanBell> then F3/F4 to flip between them, you leave it running
[22:37] <dogmatic69> ah ok
[22:38] <dogmatic69> any way to disable exit. maybe alias exit="echo 'oh no you didnt'"
[22:39] <dogmatic69> By habit I exit and that obviously defeats the purpose
[22:40] <bigcalm> You type exit rather than ctrl-d?
[22:41] <dogmatic69> ctrl+d?
[22:41] <dogmatic69> i always exit a server
[22:41] <dogmatic69> thought that is the way
[22:41] <bigcalm> What do you think ctrl d does?
[22:41] <AlanBell> I just close the gnome-terminal window
[22:41] <dogmatic69> i just tried it, logs you out
[22:42] <AlanBell> night all o/
[22:42] <bigcalm> Night Alan
[22:42] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: that pops up a window saying are you sure (well 10.10 did)
[22:42] <dogmatic69> night, thanks for the help AlanBell
[22:42]  * hamitron uses ctrl+d
[22:42] <dogmatic69> :/
[22:42] <dogmatic69> Im the only noob using exit
[22:43] <dogmatic69> ctrl+d has just improved my lazy armoury
[22:44] <hamitron> :)
[22:44] <hamitron> that's the spirit!
[22:44] <dogmatic69> hamitron: my new blade improved laziness 50 fold
[22:44] <hamitron> :-o
[22:45] <hamitron> do you remember learning, when logging into loads of different terminals?
[22:45] <dogmatic69> from having hundreds of vhosts and lines in /etc/hosts for php dev, I now have bind9, one global *.dev catch and 2 vhosts. one for cakephp specific and one for php general
[22:45] <hamitron> because you had never heard of "screen"
[22:45] <dogmatic69> I have used terminator for a long time
[22:46] <dogmatic69> great for local, but I can see screen as a replacement for remote admin
[22:46] <hamitron> terminator?
[22:46] <dogmatic69> :O
[22:46] <dogmatic69> apt-get install terminator
[22:46] <hamitron> I just use alt+F# keys :/
[22:47] <dogmatic69> its awesome, tabbed terminal, broadcast etc etc
[22:47] <hamitron> that sounds kinda cool
[22:47] <dogmatic69> you can open tabs, in each tab multi terminals.
[22:47] <dogmatic69> then you can group them how you like
[22:47] <hamitron> hang on, this is gui app?
[22:47] <dogmatic69> then broadcast
[22:47] <dogmatic69> ye
[22:48] <hamitron> ah, I learned my stuff with no X
[22:48] <hamitron> ;)
[22:48] <dogmatic69> its like screen on steroids in a GUI
[22:48] <hamitron> gonna give it a go
[22:48] <dogmatic69> but, not that its a good idea or anything, you can log into 10 servers, hit broadcast all and do 'apt-get update'
[22:48] <dogmatic69> all 10 done
[22:49] <hamitron> heh
[22:49] <hamitron> just remembered I'm not on debian now
[22:49] <dogmatic69> things like that.
[22:49]  * hamitron just tried to apt-get
[22:49]  * hamitron facedesks
[22:49] <dogmatic69> ssh to all your co-workers and broadcast 'say "you suck"'
[22:49] <dogmatic69> idk
[22:50]  * penguin42 is old school - that's what wall(1) is for
[22:50] <dogmatic69> hamitron: no apt-get?
[22:50] <hamitron> on slackware atm
[22:50] <dogmatic69> ah
[22:50] <bigcalm> You can also echo to a single tty or user
[22:50] <dogmatic69> yum install apt-get
[22:50] <bigcalm> With write
[22:50] <dogmatic69> :D
[22:50] <hamitron> slackware has yum?
[22:50] <bigcalm> Doesn't like the ! though
[22:51] <dogmatic69> hamitron: I am guessing
[22:51] <hamitron> I use installpkg
[22:51] <hamitron> but I kinda need the package to install ;)
[22:51] <dogmatic69> how I miss apt-get on windows
[22:52] <dogmatic69> its a real pita to download and install apps
[22:52] <hamitron> I do miss and don't miss all the package management
[22:52] <hamitron> :)
[22:52] <hamitron> well, auto deps
[22:52] <dogmatic69> hamitron: Its nice to apt-get some<tab> and you will likely find what you need, and 99.9% sure its not some virus infested porn app
[22:53] <hamitron> your loss
[22:53] <dogmatic69> :D
[22:53] <hamitron> I mean, errrr, yeh
[22:53] <hamitron> ;)
[22:53] <dogmatic69> I realised the other day, since ubuntu I have not really used torrents.
[22:53] <hamitron> :-o
[22:53] <dogmatic69> not that I used ever :-|
[22:53] <hamitron> I use them to test new distro
[22:54] <hamitron> mostly
[22:54] <bigcalm> Night kids :)
[22:54] <dogmatic69> linuxmag or whatever its called
[22:54] <dogmatic69> later bigcalm
[22:54] <hamitron> nn big
[22:54] <hamitron> I used to get linux format, to save on the downloads
[22:55] <hamitron> but I felt the mag was just going over the same old "install this easy distro" every few months
[22:55] <hamitron> and the dvd were out of date
[22:55] <hamitron> and it cost £60 per year
[22:56] <hamitron> canceled and now buy a few extra books to read certain subjects in depth :)
[23:02] <dogmatic69> ye, same as any mag.
[23:02] <dogmatic69> I only buy the ones I like every few months
[23:02] <dogmatic69> its like reading reddit every day... REPOST
[23:13] <ali1234> bug 974716
[23:13] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974716 in brasero (Ubuntu) "brasero "crashes" when burning large blu-ray isos" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974716


[19:21] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:42] <ajmitch> morning
[21:03] <hads> Morning
[21:45] <olly> morning
[22:07] <chilts> morning


[04:34] <Kilos> morning all of ya :)
[04:37] <Kilos> eish 231m upgrade
[04:37] <Kilos> thats gotta wait
[07:00] <Kilos> ai! me mortally wounded
[07:11] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[08:33] <Kilos> hi superfly Squirm inetpro theblazehen_
[08:55] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[09:01] <ThatGraemeGuy> lo :)
[09:05] <theblazehen_> Hi Kilos ThatGraemeGuy
[09:36] <gremble> o/
[10:19] <Kilos> hi gremble
[10:20] <charl> good morning
[10:20] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[10:20]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[10:20] <charl> hi Kilos
[10:21] <Kilos> hi charl
[10:21] <Kilos> Maaz: coffee please
[10:21] <Maaz> Kilos: Alrighty
[10:24] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl and Kilos!
[10:25] <Kilos> Maaz: ty
[10:25] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[10:26] <gremble> Good morning Kilos and charl
[10:30] <Kilos> hehe you woke kinda late , its avy already
[10:30] <Kilos> comfy bed there
[10:31] <Kilos> not as bad as the pro though, he says morning at 6pm
[10:32] <gremble> I went to bed at 3:30 :P
[10:33] <gremble> The dogs had me up at 6 again
[10:33] <gremble> So I just went to bed and slept
[10:33] <Kilos> wow what were you doing till then?
[10:33] <gremble> writing
[10:33] <Kilos> sjoe
[10:41] <charl> Maaz: danke
[10:41] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[10:41] <charl> hi gremble
[11:41] <magespawn> good afternoon
[11:48] <charl> hi magespawn
[11:48] <charl> how are you today
[11:48] <magespawn> hi charl
[11:48] <magespawn> good and you?
[11:48] <charl> good good
[11:59] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[11:59]  * Kilos pigged out on watermelon. almost look preggy
[12:01] <Kilos> hi SDCDev
[12:03] <SDCDev> hey Kilos, how are you?
[12:03] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[12:11] <SDCDev> im good thanks :) just tired :<
[12:12] <Kilos> sjoe! at lunch time?
[12:28] <nlsthzn> o/
[12:33] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[12:33] <nlsthzn> uncle Kilos , alo :)
[12:33]  * nlsthzn is now not running Linux or Windows >.<
[12:34] <Kilos> lol what now?
[12:35] <Kilos> android
[12:36] <nlsthzn> osx
[12:36] <Kilos> mac?
[12:37] <nlsthzn> mackintosh running the latest and greatest from apple
[12:37] <nlsthzn> I have no idea why I did, I guess because I can
[12:37] <Kilos> lol what bank did you rob?
[12:39] <nlsthzn> didn't buy it... I installed it on my PC
[12:39] <Kilos> aha
[12:40] <Kilos> well at least it can do irc
[12:40] <nlsthzn> I am using 99% of the same apps that I used in Windows and in Linux :p
[12:41] <nlsthzn> and it was about the same amount of googling and swearing as installing linux about five years ago
[12:42] <Kilos> hahahaha
[12:42] <superfly> nlsthzn: a hackintosh?
[12:43] <nlsthzn> yup... running yosemite all updates and everything working (thus far) superfly
[12:43] <superfly> ah
[12:43] <superfly> I have a Mac Mini here. Still holding out on Yosemite
[12:43] <superfly> need to make sure OpenLP runs fine on it first (got someone else being the guineapig
[12:44] <nlsthzn> except I am getting a little bit of distortion on the sound (which may be because I have 5.1 connected but not set up properly I think)
[12:44] <nlsthzn> but it seems to be only in browser and not other apps
[12:45] <nlsthzn> first time on mac for me ... dabbled a bit in box but never on real hardware
[12:45] <nlsthzn> that worked well in any case
[12:45] <nlsthzn> even playing games
[12:50] <Kilos> enjoy it
[12:51] <nlsthzn> biggest issue is my normal screen doesn't identify itself properly so I have a work around in linux but nothing yet for OS X so I am using a 32" LCD TV for a screen >.< and it is slightly to close to my face for comfort :p
[12:51] <Kilos> hahaha
[12:51] <Kilos> take off your glasses
[12:56] <magespawn> it is a good way to get practice an os
[13:13] <magespawn> let me retype that
[13:14] <magespawn> it is a good way to get practice with an os
[13:14] <Kilos> we understand
[13:14] <Kilos> you hands go faster than your head at times
[13:15] <Kilos> have you thought about your wifi prob yet?
[13:15] <magespawn> nlsthzn: how close is it to BSD/OpenBSD/FreeBSD?
[13:16] <magespawn> yes Kilos i will just have to find an open channel
[13:16] <Kilos> oh you sure thats the prob?
[13:17] <Kilos> not some obstructions like trees
[13:17] <magespawn> i do not think so Kilos, trees grow but not that fast
[13:18] <magespawn> and when i scan from the sites it shows all the other networks in the area
[13:18] <Kilos> depends on the clearance you had before summer
[13:18] <Kilos> aha
[13:18] <nlsthzn> magespawn, I have no idea... I think they have wondered away far enough to only have bits and pieces
[13:19] <nlsthzn> they also use the mach kernel afaik
[13:23] <magespawn> Kilos there are at least two others that are on the same frequency
[13:26] <Kilos> thats good to know
[13:26] <Kilos> is it major work to change channels
[13:26] <Kilos> oh its just you main link to empangeni
[13:26] <Kilos> not all of the points surely
[13:27] <magespawn> no not major, and yes it is just the one link
[15:03] <superfly> Maaz: tell magespawn Darwin is the name of the kernel. It looks like BSD and smells like BSD, but it's far removed from BSD. Anyone who says OS X is just BSD is talking nonsense.
[15:03] <Maaz> superfly: Okay, I'll tell magespawn on freenode
[15:59] <Squirm> Hello
[16:04] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[16:11] <superfly> hi Squirm. Gotta go to church now, but maybe coffee tomorrow? I presume you're working during the day, so maybe in the evening? Chat later.
[16:17] <Squirm> Hey superfly, would have been cool, but have work in the evening too..... Maybe Tuesday could work
[16:17] <Squirm> will let you know too
[17:23] <inetpro> good mornings
[17:24] <inetpro> oops... evening already?
[17:27] <Kilos> hahaha hiya inetpro
[17:29] <Kilos> gremble: see ^^
[17:32] <inetpro> uh?
[17:33] <Kilos> i can laugh at twitter with their suggestions of who to follow
[17:33] <Kilos> hi SmilyBorg
[17:33] <SmilyBorg> Hi Kilos
[17:33] <Kilos> they advise ubuntuza to follow KFC
[17:49] <Kilos> sjoe graphine i think it is called, a sheet as thin as paper can hold the weight of an elephant
[17:50] <Kilos> they wanna make roll up cell phones with it and paper thin tvs
[17:50] <Kilos> see more in fb 50 50
[18:40]  * Kilos watching the hobbit on mnet
[18:48] <magespawn> good evening
[18:48] <Maaz> magespawn: By the way, superfly on freenode told me "tell magespawn Darwin is the name of the kernel. It looks like BSD and smells like BSD, but it's far removed from BSD. Anyone who says OS X is just BSD is talking nonsense." 3 hours, 45 minutes and 5 seconds ago
[18:48] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[18:52] <magespawn> hi
[18:53] <magespawn> Maaz tell superfly thanks for the heads up
[18:53] <Maaz> magespawn: Got it, I'll tell superfly on freenode
[18:57] <inetpro> so I ended up installing qemu-kvm late last night, or rather make that early this morning, even after I actually wanted to sleep early....
[18:57] <inetpro> be that as it may... I like it much more than virtualbox
[18:58] <inetpro> question, how do I convert the installed VM of Ubuntu Server 14.04 to KVM?
[18:58] <Kilos> virtualbox is slow i think is that thing leaner
[19:00] <magespawn> inetpro could you use something like clonezilla?
[19:01] <inetpro> actually looks like I should just clone it and them import or something like that... there are solutions for this
[19:01]  * inetpro busy reading
[19:02] <Kilos> google is your friend
[19:02] <Kilos> and man
[19:02] <Kilos> and you are my friend
[19:03] <inetpro> haha
[19:03] <Kilos> die engelse is slim ne
[19:04] <inetpro> just need to get over the error "VT-x is being used by another hypervisor" first in order to stop the paused host before I clone
[19:26] <Kilos> dwarves are like van der merwes, their ears dont listen good
[19:28] <magespawn> have you meet many dwarves Kilos ?
[19:28] <inetpro> nice!
[19:28]  * Kilos watching hobbit
[19:28] <inetpro> what I needed is:
[19:28] <inetpro> VBoxManage clonehd /path/to/hard_drive_image/guesthd.vdi /path/to/hard_drive_image.img --format raw
[19:28] <Kilos> fixed inetpro ?
[19:29] <inetpro> after doing tha, KVM can simply import
[19:29] <Kilos> well done
[19:29] <inetpro> Kilos: yep, now I can uninstall VBox
[19:29] <inetpro> or just not use it
[19:30] <Kilos> jy nogal slim vir n toppie ne
[19:35] <inetpro> moet wees
[19:35] <inetpro> as jy nie sterk is nie moet jy slim weed
[19:35] <inetpro> wees
[19:47] <inetpro> yikes!
[19:47] <inetpro> but I made one very silly mistake
[19:47] <inetpro> Kilos: gee my daai adres van jou man
[19:48]  * inetpro thought when importing the raw image that it had made another copy
[19:49] <inetpro> deleted the image and effectively killed the new machine
[19:49]  * inetpro shall take that as a lesson
[19:50] <Kilos> watter een inetpro ?
[19:50] <inetpro> first cleaned up the VBox image and then wiped the raw image as well, so can not even re-generate
[19:50] <Kilos> eish
[19:50] <inetpro> just have to stay late and re-install again
[19:51] <Kilos> watter adres soek jy
[19:51] <inetpro> :-)
[19:51] <Kilos> o lolol
[19:51] <Kilos> domdonner
[19:51] <inetpro> presies
[19:53] <Kilos> hahaha
[20:01] <inetpro> Kilos: gelukkig het ek nog my ISOs
[20:02] <inetpro> net die updates wat onnodig weer gedownload moet word
[20:02] <Kilos> sjoe ja baie gelukkig
[20:02] <Kilos> lol spaar jy nie jou archives nie?
[20:02] <inetpro> installasie is amper vinniger as om die cloning te doen
[20:03] <Kilos> ek doen dit gereeld vandat jy my geleer het van rsync
[20:12] <magespawn> cloning saves the data though, if you have beeni using the machine
[20:13] <Kilos> ja but he removed his cloned thing too
[20:13] <Kilos> always keep a copy of /var/cache/apt/archives somewhere else is you use 3g
[20:14] <Kilos> if*
[20:16] <magespawn> inetpro what was the vm for?
[20:17] <inetpro> magespawn: now just experimentations... started only last night... nothing set up yet, so not serious at all
[20:21] <magespawn> ahh right, cool beans
[20:21] <Kilos> you didnt say anything man
[20:21] <Kilos> ai!
[20:21] <Kilos> van der merwes
[20:21] <Kilos> what was the vm for
[20:22] <Kilos> experiment with what
[20:22] <Kilos> ai! ek sukkel darem met my volk
[20:22] <inetpro> Kilos: just experimentations
[20:22] <magespawn> i wonder if it would be possible to run recovery programs on a deleted vm
[20:22] <Kilos> with what
[20:22] <inetpro> anything
[20:22] <Kilos> sigh
[20:23] <inetpro> always nice to have spares lying around
[20:23] <Kilos> spare what?
[20:23] <inetpro> spare machines
[20:23] <Kilos> aha'
[20:24] <Kilos> this is worse than pulling teeth
[20:24] <inetpro> ai!
[20:24] <inetpro> must I spell it out?
[20:24] <Kilos> always
[20:26] <magespawn> for testing different software, or setups or combinations of settings etc also allows you to specify the hardware like ram etc
[20:27] <inetpro> If I want to test server related stuff, I'll rather test in a VM locally before I try stuff in the real world out there
[20:27] <Kilos> ty for that knowlege
[20:27] <inetpro> the VM allows me to simulate a full production environment
[20:28] <magespawn> always best to have a test rig first in case something goes very wrong
[20:28] <inetpro> excatlky
[20:28] <magespawn> a safety net if you will
[20:31] <Kilos> aw now there gotta be another hobbit because this one ends where they release the dragon
[20:31] <Kilos> another year or 2 to wait
[20:32] <magespawn> i think they have already released it Kilos
[20:32] <magespawn> but i am out of things a bit
[20:34] <Kilos> oh yay
[20:34] <Kilos> hopefully they show it soon then before i forget this one
[20:35] <Kilos> i had a good day today, didnt break anything
[20:36] <Kilos> inetpro: you trying the server with that static thing
[20:36] <Kilos> nikola
[20:36] <inetpro> Kilos: not yet
[20:37] <inetpro> don't really need the server for that
[20:37] <Kilos> oh
[20:38] <inetpro> nikola is simple enough on any desktop
[20:39] <Kilos> glad you find it simple
[20:39] <inetpro> ai!
[20:40] <Kilos> i go crash now
[20:40] <Kilos> you all sleep tight
[20:41] <inetpro> good night oom
[20:41] <Kilos> and dont stay up too late
[20:41] <Kilos> night my peeps
[20:43] <magespawn> i am also out of here, good night
[22:11] <superfly> Squirm: Tuesday evening could work.
[22:11] <Maaz> superfly: By the way, magespawn on freenode told me "tell superfly thanks for the heads up" 3 hours, 18 minutes and 3 seconds ago


[00:00] <BionicMac> Yes. here also. I do want to give vivaldi a shot though.  I have to look at my notes to see which I am runngin now.
[00:01] <mattfly> im with ppa right now
[00:01] <BionicMac> Actually I ended up just using my browser. The audio was far better for me.
[00:02] <BionicMac> It was like a volume boost from app to web interface. noticable too. Cleaner and crisper.
[00:03] <mattfly> oh i should try that
[00:03] <BionicMac> Keep in mind the Linux spotify application is pet project and not considered stable.
[00:03] <mattfly> yeah but it worked nice on 16.04
[00:03] <BionicMac> I lov ethe web interface less headache and i can have my Panora or Spotify anytime, anywhere, any OS. =) quickly with no installs or learning curve.
[00:03] <mattfly> i cant get how hibernation could work so nice on 17.10 and now only crashes
[00:03] <BionicMac> I actually like the web interface better for pandora and spotify.
[00:04] <mattfly> any chance the first lts release will be better?
[00:04] <mattfly> theres too much to fix from my point of view...
[00:04] <BionicMac> the native linux spotify app?
[00:04] <BionicMac> I have no idea.
[00:06] <mattfly> no the ubuntu lagging
[00:06] <mattfly> and hibernation
[00:06] <mattfly> its amazing that on the live cd its super fast
[00:06] <mattfly> maybe its something i am running
[00:07] <mattfly> I have synergy, vscode, thunderbird, lmms with a midi keyborad plugged, firefox, soptify and dolphin open
[00:19] <BionicMac> mattfly: https://bionicmac.club/index.php/s/kEwa6JG3ZzJqhZi
[00:19] <BionicMac> In case you want to try vivaldi.
[00:20] <BionicMac> mattfly: well check your system load with those running and look for the culprit(s).
[00:20] <mattfly> my system load?
[00:20] <mattfly> no
[00:20] <BionicMac> even a good ole' (h)top would work
[00:20] <mattfly> its fine
[00:21] <mattfly> , im looking on htop
[00:21] <BionicMac> what do you see?
[00:21] <mattfly> 9 gb used of 16, processors at 10%
[00:21] <BionicMac> sounds good
[00:21] <mattfly> okay lmms is talking 29 %
[00:21] <BionicMac> hmmm
[00:21] <mattfly> its the worst there
[00:21] <BionicMac> that one is a bugger
[00:21] <mattfly> no
[00:21] <BionicMac> kill lmms only
[00:22] <mattfly> thats normal for lmms
[00:22] <BionicMac> lmms has historically been a resource hog.
[00:22] <mattfly> and i tried without it
[00:22] <mattfly> its not the problem
[00:22] <BionicMac> hmm
[00:23] <mattfly> do you have virtual box?
[00:23] <BionicMac> yes
[00:23] <BionicMac> runs fine with the normal lag in vbox itself. doesn't affect the rest of my system.
[00:23] <mattfly> maybe was some mess with those kernel modules or something
[00:23] <mattfly> now on gnome shell its a bit better
[00:24] <mattfly> but if I am on kde its annoying
[00:24] <BionicMac> Upgraded my kernel today with the official updates.
[00:24] <mattfly> aw me too
[00:24] <mattfly> it updated nvidia drivers too
[00:24] <mattfly> but right now im using kernel 4.16
[00:25] <BionicMac> Time to grab some food.. be back in minute.
[00:25] <BionicMac> You should try it with the official kernel and see what gives.
[00:25] <BionicMac> grabbing food...
[00:25] <mattfly> yesterday i tried to edit some spreadsheets with libreoffice
[00:25] <mattfly> i just had some lag now
[00:26] <mattfly> well and i just couldnt, everything got slowed down a lot
[00:26] <mattfly> my fans were turnning on all the time
[00:45] <BionicMac> oooo vivaldi is sweeeet =0
[06:16] <quidnunc> How do I change display managers?
[06:16] <quidnunc> dpkg-reconfigure doesn't seem to work anymore
[06:22] <slidinghorn> quidnunc: try sudo update-alternatives --configure x-session-manager
[06:23] <quidnunc> --configure? --set-selections?
[06:23] <slidinghorn> --config  sorry
[06:24] <quidnunc> slidinghorn: Says gnome-session
[06:25] <quidnunc> slidinghorn: but /etc/X11/default-display-manager says lxde
[06:26] <slidinghorn> LXDE isn't a display manager...which DM are you trying to use?
[06:26] <quidnunc> gdm
[06:26] <slidinghorn> (it *has* a display manager - lxdm)
[06:27] <quidnunc> sorry lxdm
[06:27] <quidnunc> I meant to say
[06:27] <slidinghorn> ...and you have gdm installed, right?
[06:27] <quidnunc> I just re-installed gdm3
[06:27] <quidnunc> there doesn't seem to be a package named gdm anymore
[06:29] <slidinghorn> ok...if the update-alternatives method doesn't allow you to change it, just edit the /etc/X11/default-display-manager to say /usr/sbin/gdm3
[06:29] <slidinghorn> (that should be the right path)
[06:30] <quidnunc> okay, dpkg-reconfigure gdm3 invokes the configuration selector, but I get "gdm.service is not active"
[06:30] <quidnunc> ", cannot reload"
[06:30] <quidnunc> "invoke-rc.d: initscript gdm3, action 'reload' failed""
[06:30] <slidinghorn> you're on 18.04 right?
[06:31] <quidnunc> yes
[06:32] <slidinghorn> sudo systemctl enable gdm.service  (you may have to disable the lxdm service - I'm not sure)
[06:34] <quidnunc> slidinghorn: Seems someone had a similar problem on stackexchange. Rebooting solves it, apparently
[06:34] <quidnunc> I'm going to try that
[06:34] <quidnunc> Thanks for the help!
[06:34] <slidinghorn> good luck!
[06:34] <quidnunc> :)
[12:37] <katnip> when are the updates frozen if they are?
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> katnip: what do you mean?
[12:38] <katnip> i havent had any updates since yesterday so i wondered if it was frozen yet
[12:39] <lotuspsychje> katnip: try sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[12:40] <katnip> yah that's my command each time :)
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> katnip: if there are none, there are none :p
[12:41] <katnip> okay :)
[12:41] <katnip> just checking... :)
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> katnip: did you see the new wallpapers in your system?
[12:42] <katnip> the orange ones?
[12:42] <lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/04/13/ubuntu-desktop-weekly-update-13-april-2018
[12:44] <katnip> yeah... i do not have these
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> katnip: your on gnome?
[12:45] <katnip> yes
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> then you should..
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-wallpapers
[12:46] <lotuspsychje> got this version katnip ?
[12:47] <katnip> ubuntu-wallpapers is already the newest version (18.04.1-0ubuntu1).
[12:47] <lotuspsychje> weird
[12:48] <katnip> actually i do lol
[12:48] <lotuspsychje> thought so
[12:49] <katnip> i like the blue one at the top  of the choices, i like dark
[12:50] <lotuspsychje> katnip: https://imgur.com/a/bTtdN
[12:57] <katnip> i like that
[12:58] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[12:59] <katnip> putting the dock on the bottom, i'm personally not a fan of wifi, i like ROOTBOOK too :)
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> :p
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> its a netbook so i need wifi
[12:59] <katnip> oh ok
[13:00] <katnip> i use a laptop with external monitor, keyboard, mouse
[13:15] <katnip> lotuspsychje, under settings > details ; when will it change from dev branch to the normal one?
[13:17] <lotuspsychje> katnip: at final release 26 april
[13:18] <katnip> ok
[13:18] <katnip> just making sure i didnt have a file in error
[13:19] <katnip> ever try wavebox?
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> no?
[13:20] <katnip> wavebox.io
[13:23] <katnip> my trial ran out and they emailed me for the 20 for a yr, i told them i couldnt afford it right now since i was going thru chemo, they sent an email back and gave me a complimentary copy for a yr and said 'get well from the wavebox team.' so i recommend it. works really great.
[21:58] <mattfly> Hi!
[21:59] <mattfly> surprisingly the updates from today fixed all the lags on my ubuntu bionic
[23:03] <quidnunc> How do I debug why gdm fails to configure graphics?
[23:12] <slidinghorn> quidnunc: in what way is it failing to configure graphics?  Can you elaborate?


[06:13] <ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you plese provide some feedback as to if we can implement this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ThiagoAderaldo/posts/bbpwuMbmHx6
[06:23] <sitter> ovidiu-florin: Jens and I looked at it. see the comment  'Suggestions from Jens (VDG) at Randa'
[06:24] <sitter> seeing as the author didn't get back to the VDG I suspect the answer is no
[06:24] <sitter> incidently g+ continues to not be a defect tracker
[06:24] <sitter> neither is IRC
[07:14] <santa_> Riddell: morning, I have a draft implementation of the git-clone-all script, I will send it when it's finished, this is how the configuration file looks like
[07:14] <santa_> https://paste.kde.org/ppy50hpk8
[07:14] <santa_> the thing would be called this way:
[07:15] <santa_> git-clone-all -r frameworks
[07:16] <santa_> or git-clone-all -r frameworks -d wily
[07:16] <santa_> or even git-clone-all -r frameworks -d siduction
[07:16] <santa_> or even git-clone-all -r frameworks -d neon
[07:17] <santa_> (since the set of packages may be different for each case)
[07:44] <ovidiu-florin> sitter: I can't find that comment
[08:16] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:17] <ghostcube> may the force be with you!!
[08:18] <lordievader> ;)
[08:28] <Riddell> santa_: looks interesting :)
[09:14] <santa_> Riddell: done, although we could add an "-u" option in the future to update the extra remotes of already existent clones
[09:14] <santa_> https://gitlab.com/siduction-tools/pkg-kde-automation/blob/master/git-clone-all
[09:16] <santa_> gonna mail kubuntu-devel with all the needed stuff
[10:07] <sitter> everytime I look at the automation the only thing spooking through my mind is why that is all so static
[10:22] <bshah> how do I apply as kubuntu dev?
[10:22] <bshah> (if I am eligible)
[10:22] <bshah> just wondering
[10:25] <sitter> bshah: https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Developers#Applying_for_kubuntu-dev_membership
[10:26] <bshah> You must be KUbuntu member first.. hmm
[10:27] <bshah> I guess.. not worth effort..
[10:29] <sitter> bshah: if you just want commit access to the repos you can nicely ask the debian kde team if you can get access without affiliation
[10:32] <sitter> shadeslayer: https://twitter.com/icecrime/status/652916718902226944
[10:34] <sitter> Riddell: just did the first source build with a static tarball location of qtbase from debian. we may be able to do 5.5 builds next week hopefully
[11:13] <pursuivant> muon (redesign) v5.4.1-95-g37e9605 * Aleix Pol:  (4 files in 2 dirs)
[11:13] <pursuivant> Improve functionality of the Update page
[11:13] <pursuivant> Make it possible to jump to the resource when displayed.
[11:13] <pursuivant> Improve the section delegate
[11:13] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/muon/37e960549e225994021ef43d700a0f219d3d5020
 everytime I look at the automation the only thing spooking through my mind is why that is all so static
[11:33] <santa_> what you mean with "so static" exactly?
[11:34] <sitter> +src_package_list = readPackages(cwd + "/package-name-lists/" + releaseType + "-" + dist)
[11:34] <sitter> e.g.
[11:35] <soee> :O http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-5.5.1-Released
[11:35] <soee> "the Qt 5.5.1 patch release provides close to 1.000 improvements and fixes."
[11:41] <santa_> sitter: well, the other option would be checking the ftp and cache the list obtained somehow
[11:42] <sitter> sftp + ls should be plenty cheap, no?
[11:44] <santa_> thats what the package-names-list does and it doesn't work very fast for me
[11:46] <santa_> but in any case the package list is already needed for the build status thing if I'm not mistaken
[11:51] <sitter> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>ls stable/frameworks/5.15/\*.xz  0,13s user 0,00s system 8% cpu 1,513 total
[11:53] <sitter> sftp -b - ftpubuntu@depot.kde.org:stable/frameworks/5.15/ <<< 'ls *.xz'  0,14s user 0,01s system 2% cpu 6,813 total
[11:53] <sitter> me thinks that listy thing needs to be ported from sftp to ssh ls
[11:54] <sitter> it is slightly weird that it would take so much longer though
[11:54] <santa_> here
[11:54] <santa_> real    0m1.017s
[11:54] <sitter> santa_: 1s seems reasoanble though?
[11:55] <santa_> and you still need the list for the build status thing
[11:55] <sitter> build status thing needs fixing as well I guess?
[11:55] <santa_> sitter: well, for the git-clone-all is kind of acceptable
[11:56] <sitter> I haven't read your new code TBH :P
[11:57] <sitter> though I think it probably would be better to clone all repos actually
[11:58] <santa_> without -r specified we could do that
[11:58] <sitter> so you get a list of all things in the release from depot.kde, you clone all repos --> all tars from depot should map to a repo AND only those repos should have $whateverbranchforbuild
[11:59] <sitter> if you have a tar but no repo, or a repo but no tar something either went wrong or a human needs to tinker with the repos (e.g. delete the branch and get it removed from archive becuase $thing is no longer getting released)
[12:01] <santa_> packagesRenamedFromUpstram = {"kwallet": "kwallet-kf5",
[12:01] <santa_>                               "kdnssd": "kdnssd-kf5",
[12:01] <santa_>                               "kactivities": "kactivities-kf5",
[12:01] <santa_>                               "attica": "attica-kf5",
[12:01] <santa_>                               "ktux": None,
[12:01] <santa_>                               "libkexiv2": None,
[12:02] <santa_>                               "kde-workspace": None,
[12:02] <santa_>                               "libkgeomap": None,
[12:02] <santa_>                               "kde-l10n": None,
[12:02] <santa_>                               "kdelibs": "kde4libs",
[12:02] <santa_>                               "baloo": "baloo-kf5",
[12:02] <santa_>                               "kfilemetadata": "kfilemetadata-kf5",
[12:02] <santa_>                              }
[12:02] <sitter> my oh my :P
[12:02] <sitter> santa_: on a related note ... if you clone all repos we can throw that silly map out
[12:03] <santa_> what map?
[12:03] <sitter> santa_: upstreamname -> ourname
[12:03] <sitter> just need to put the relevant metadata somewhere in the repo
[12:05] <sitter> if file.exist?("$repo/debian/meta/upstream_name") ; map[upstream] = read();
[12:05] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:06] <sitter> uh ah, this actually could go in debian/source/ maybe, seems relevant enough anyway
[12:06] <soee> hiho BluesKaj
[12:06] <BluesKaj> Hi soee
[12:10] <sitter> santa_: btw, I think you can make git-clone-all quite a bit faster by threading the for loop. git.debian has really bad performance sometimes plus ssh overhead will eat ~1s for each clone
[12:22] <soee> can i disable favs foldersarea in Kmail ?
[12:26] <santa_> sitter_: yep. as the -u option would be a nice feature to add
[12:32] <santa_> sitter_: regarding the map we would still have a problem with those mapped to None, which are those being skipped by kubuntu
[12:32] <santa_> so the best thing we could do would be reducing its size
[12:34] <sitter_> None could simply be a deadend kubuntu branch with upstream_name set to None
[12:35] <santa_> which would be an imaginative way to implement the map
[12:35] <sitter_> it moves the map into context essentially
[12:36] <santa_> I think it could be a nice thing to do
[12:37] <santa_> it's good to remove this kind of things from the packaging
[12:38] <santa_> * from the automation
[12:38] <santa_> that manual list of "packages with epoch" is a cancer too, good thing we won't need it for the new version bumping
[12:39] <sitter_> yeah, that one I am complaining about once a month or so xD
[12:39] <sitter_> santa_: we could get rid of that as well if automation clones all repos
[12:39] <sitter_> I think I discussed this a while ago with Riddell
[12:40] <sitter_> what should happen is that it should use the debian python module to read the changelog in the repo and then preserve the epoch (or lack thereof) when bumping
[13:25] <shadeslayer> sitter: heh
[14:47] <soee> QT 5.5 will land in Wily ?
[14:49] <ScottK> No.  That'd be "X" material.
[15:00] <shadeslayer> seeing how wily is at most a week away
[16:43] <pursuivant> muon (master) v5.4.1-39-g1f1859d * Aleix Pol: discover (2 files)
[16:43] <pursuivant> Make it possible to launch appstream://packageid on discover
[16:43] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/muon/1f1859d2fd1e71d142ccd51fc888b8af1914771b
[16:59] <gorilych> hello. I have KDE 5.4.2 on kubuntu 15.10. Sometimes keyboard shortcuts stop working. Is this a known problem?
[17:51] <Mamarok> I was wondering, there doesn't appear to be offical packages for the language Rust, I only found a PPA, but nothing in the offical Ubuntu repos, any ideas why?
[19:27] <soee> hey all, remember we were testing Slack as a team communication tool but due to closed source etc. it was not accepted
[19:27] <soee> what do you think about this: http://www.mattermost.org/open-source-slack-alternative-reaches-1-0/
[21:40] <soee> http://www.proli.net/2015/10/16/appstream-offers-a-cross-distribution-identifier-for-applications/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
[21:40] <soee> is it something like Open Suse i think has where you can click button on a website, and application will be installed ?
[21:46] <valorie> soee: mattermost looks really interesting
[21:47] <valorie> Mamarok: file a bug and mention the PPA?
[21:48] <valorie> doesn't sound like something that kubuntu would take care of, but some KDE devels are investigating Rust
[21:48] <valorie> like sho_
[21:48] <clivejo> has anyone packaged calligra?
[21:51] <soee> i dont think so
[21:53] <clivejo> my ISP have accused me of breaching their Fair Usage policy and Im currently being capped to like 5Kb and large files are being disconnected part way through download :(
[21:55] <valorie> gah
[21:55] <valorie> did they specify what your "breach" is?
[21:56] <clivejo> excessing a cap
[21:56] <clivejo> exceeding
[21:56] <clivejo> but its advertised as having no cap but subject to Fair Usage
[21:57] <valorie> in other words, a lie
[21:59] <clivejo> well I was uploading a lot of photos to mapillary and streaming Amazon movies :/
[22:00] <clivejo> but is that fair usage and why didnt they tell me before capping me
[22:00] <clivejo> also why cant they lift the cap, as this is my first time breaching a cap I knew nothing about!
[22:01] <valorie> what do they say when you ask them?
[22:01] <valorie> good on you for mapillary
[22:01] <valorie> I wonder if they are fighting with Amazon
[22:01] <clivejo> Friday afternoon, they didnt care about helping
[22:01] <valorie> I mean, attacking/extorting them
[22:02] <valorie> using Amazon customers
[22:02] <clivejo> I thought I was helping by downloading during offpeak times
[23:20] <sgclark> ouch that would be terrible
[23:20] <sgclark> I suspect psckaging would be alot of usage heh
[23:21] <sgclark> err packaging


[00:03] <bdmurray> teward: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2012-August/003869.html
[00:05] <teward> bdmurray: thanks, I had lost the old emails :)
[01:40] <teward> bdmurray: hate to ask for comments on the thread of emails, but if you could take a look - i don't think Alberto is catching everything, and is mussing up the definitions - why he's using the -quality mailing list, I do not know, but... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance%20%28draft%29/Core%20packages which he links (draft!) seems... wrong... is all.  the definitions he's assigning don't seem to fit...
[07:27] <shijing> PES QA
[07:28] <shijing> What is the abbreviation PES?
[07:28] <elfy> no idea - got some context?
[07:29] <shijing> I saw this content "Checkbox
[07:29] <shijing> Testing framework for executing manual or automated tests and reporting their results.
[07:29] <shijing> PES QA maintains its own branch"
[07:30] <shijing> four QA passes  :Upstream QA--Ubuntu QA--PES QA--Hardware Certification
[07:30] <shijing> so I don't know  PES
[07:31] <elfy> no idea still :)
[07:33] <shijing> ok :)
[09:36] <knome> Professional & Engineering Services
[09:46] <elfy> too late :p
[09:52] <knome> who cares!
[10:10] <elfy> berty
[17:22] <teward> balloons: ping
[17:29] <teward> (brb)
[17:46] <elfy> teward: unlikely to get any response this side of some time on Monday ;)
[18:28] <teward> elfy: ack.


[00:10] <lifeless> eelik: there is no schedule for either. But you can just use a tree-less repository and a single working tree which you run 'bzr switch' to switch between.
[00:11] <eelik> I know, but it's clumsy
[00:11] <eelik> can't compete with git
[00:39] <lifeless> eelik: true; you're welcome to work on reducing the clumsiness
[00:39] <lifeless> (or on those other proposals)
[00:42] <mathrick> jelmer: poke?
[00:43] <mathrick> jelmer: bzr st on git branches seems wonky, it doesn't report modified files that haven't been added to the index
[00:43] <jelmer> mathrick, hi
[00:43] <jelmer> mathrick, you need to "git add" them again to see the changes
[00:43] <mathrick> yeah, I know, but I was expecting bzr st to tell me about the changes
[00:45] <jelmer> mathrick, you probably just want a bzr working tree in that case
[00:46] <lifeless> jelmer: It would be nice if 'bzr st' behaved as bzr does here.
[00:46] <lifeless> jelmer: that is, to refresh the index
[00:46] <mathrick> jelmer: possible, I use bzr-git as more bearable git for working on code with git upstream; what's the least painful setup in this case?
[00:46] <jelmer> lifeless: sure, but somebody would have to code that up
[00:46] <jelmer> lifeless: it's nontrivial since we can't really trust the index
[00:47] <jelmer> lifeless, but we also would like to avoid writing to the index on read operations
[00:47] <lifeless> jelmer: the index is ~= dirstate, and we write to the dirstate on read operations.
[00:50] <jelmer> lifeless: but that's just the stat cache though, isn't it?
[00:51] <jelmer> lifeless, modifying the actual contents of the index seems more dubious to me
[00:51] <lifeless> jelmer: we don't version or unversion things
[00:51] <lifeless> jelmer: but I'm not suggesting we do that here either.
[00:52] <jelmer> lifeless: not versioning/unversioning a particular file, but versioning a particular revision of a fil
[00:52] <jelmer> "git status" would give different output when run after "bzr status"
[00:53] <lifeless> jelmer: yes, it would match whats on disk more ;)
[00:53] <jelmer> lifeless: :-)
[00:53] <lifeless> jelmer:  you will get complaints either way ;)
[00:54] <jelmer> lifeless: Yes, and it is the way it is because it doesn't require any effort on my part ;-)
[00:54] <jelmer> *extra
[00:55] <mathrick> jelmer: the other way is more useful for the bzr-git user though
[00:55] <mathrick> I think it's fairly safe to assume that people who use bzr-git are expecting more bzr-like behaviour
[00:56] <mathrick> jelmer: anyway, how hard will it be to push/send patches upstream if I switch to a bzr tree instead of operating on the git tree directly?
[00:57] <jelmer> mathrick: it wouldn't be any harder/less hard than using a git repository locally I think
[00:57] <jelmer> mathrick: The index won't ever be a 1-to-1 match with a bzr working tree
[00:58] <jelmer> I think the best solution would be to keep a separate sha1-cache independent of the git index
[00:58] <jelmer> and use that for bzr-git
[01:04] <lifeless> spiv:
[01:04] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~spiv/testtools/test-parameterisation - might want to finish, or delete.
[01:13] <lifeless> \o/ bzr selftest selftest working with testtools test runner
[10:17] <Peng> An autopack gave me an "inconsistent details in skipped record" message. "bzr pack" did not. What does that mean, exactly?
[10:18] <Peng> inconsistent details in skipped record: ('monty@askmonty.org-20091125073628-7fekfnr2hmkbjos1',) ('660427 67263 0 319', StaticTuple(StaticTuple(StaticTuple('monty@mysql.com-20091116153408-azpb6hq1zfp1kpvv',), StaticTuple('monty@askmonty.org-20091107103419-28zpi3oyre6kaf2l',)),)) ('1545757 266 0 319', ([('monty@mysql.com-20091116153408-azpb6hq1zfp1kpvv',), ('monty@askmonty.org-20091107103419-28zpi3oyre6kaf2l',)],))
[10:37] <christoph3141> hi, howcome there is no Arch Linux here: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download ?
[10:48] <christoph3141> How do I best install qbzr and bzr-explorer in arch linux?
[10:51] <christoph3141> hm, bzr seems very ubuntu-centric
[10:51] <bob2> not really
[10:51]  * fullermd looks at all the computers around him with bzr installed, and notes that none of them run ubuntu   :p
[10:52] <bob2> just install them from source
[10:52] <bob2> or you could be the lucky arch user who packages them first :)
[10:52] <christoph3141> well, they are packaged in the aur, but the seem to be out-of-date
[15:12] <christoph3141> Hi, I just downloaded qbzr (I want to install bzr-explorer and it said to install qbzr first). What do I do with the extracted tarball? It doesn't have any INSTALL, and the README.txt doesn't say anything about installing :(
[15:34] <Glenjamin> christoph3141: python setup.py install
[15:57] <christoph3141> Glenjamin: thanks!
[16:01] <christoph3141> I followed the instructions at http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/install-linux.html, but running "bzr explorer" says "bzr: ERROR: unknown command "explorer""
[16:01] <christoph3141> What do I do?
[16:10] <christoph3141> oh, it works now, I was in the wrong directory while running the command
[16:46] <jfroy> lol
[16:46] <jfroy> bzr thinks my Mac OS X box is a weird windows hybrid!
[16:46] <jfroy> Bazaar (bzr) 2.1.0b3
[16:46] <jfroy>   Python interpreter: /usr/bin/python26.dll 2.6.1
[18:08] <Noldorin> hi. would anyone have an idea how to get started setting up loggerhead for IIS7?
[18:08] <Noldorin> python is installed and running fine, but i'm lost from there on
[19:03] <blueyed> I have a branch derived from a tailor-generated branch. I know want to move it over to a branch created via Launchpad's vcs-import. How would I do that? There's no common ancestor.
[19:14] <blueyed> hum.. does not seem to be possible (easily).. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/318620
[19:15] <blueyed> I guess I'll do a merge with "-r", manually compare the directories and then commit..
[20:28] <lifeless> moin
[20:34] <meoblast001> hi
[20:35] <meoblast001> where can i get the special SSH for Bazaar?
[20:38] <lifeless> what special SSH?
[20:40] <awilkins> meoblast001, AFAIK all the packages now install or cause to be installed sufficient SSH for it to work.
[20:41] <meoblast001> ?
[20:41] <meoblast001> lifeless: the one that lets 2 people work on the same project
[20:42] <meoblast001> without being in the same UNIX group
[20:42] <lifeless> meoblast001: do you mean the launchpad ssh server?
[20:42] <meoblast001> yup
[20:42] <lifeless> meoblast001: because that requires the same UNIX group, by having /everyone/ be in the same unix group and doing its own checking first.
[20:43] <lifeless> meoblast001: in the launchpad source code.
[20:43] <meoblast001> i tried downloading launchpad and it tried to screw with my system
[20:43] <lifeless> meoblast001: yes, it will be a lot of work to reuse that code.
[20:43] <meoblast001> :/
[20:43] <meoblast001> does every version control system have this problem :/
[20:43] <lifeless> yes.
[20:44] <meoblast001> are there any other SSH servers that can fix my problem?
[20:44] <lifeless> you haven't described your problem.
[20:44] <lifeless> so I can't answer that question.
[20:44] <meoblast001> i have someone who wants to help me on a project i'm doing, this is a personal project so i'm using my Bazaar server
[20:45] <meoblast001> but i don't want to put him in the same group as me on my server
[20:45] <meoblast001> well, i don't want him to ahve access to everything i have access to
[20:45] <lifeless> make a new group?
[20:45] <meoblast001> but then he can't access my code for this project
[20:46] <lifeless> chown the project to that new group ?
[20:46] <meoblast001> then i can't access it
[20:46] <lifeless> put yourselfin the group too
[20:46] <meoblast001> then he can access all my projects
[20:47] <lifeless> how?
[20:47] <lifeless> they are in a different group
[20:47] <meoblast001> wait, can a user be in more than 1 group?
[20:47] <lifeless> of course
[20:47] <meoblast001> *gasp*
[20:47] <meoblast001> learn something new everday i guess
[20:47] <meoblast001> so i just have a group for each project then?
[20:49] <lifeless> something like that, yes.
[20:50] <lifeless> you may want to do some reason on this under general unix sysadmin knowledge.
[20:50] <meoblast001> do you know of any better solutions?
[20:50] <meoblast001> i don't like to put my personal projects on launchpad because they're really not official, generally just things i make when i'm bored
[20:51] <gutworth> there's always +junk
[20:51] <meoblast001> +junk?
[21:00] <gutworth> you can push stuff to ~yourid/+junk/
[21:00] <gutworth> like this https://code.launchpad.net/~gutworth/+junk/mod2format
[21:00] <meoblast001> what if i want it on my server though >.<
[21:00] <meoblast001> anyways, i'm a hacker, i enjoy experimenting ;)
[22:40] <Noldorin> hi. does anyone have any suggestions how to use Loggerhead on IIS7?
[22:41] <lifeless> apparently theres some isapi thing
[22:41] <lifeless> if you mail the like awilkins, who does that, may see.
[22:41] <lifeless> he may have blogged about it already in fact.
[22:41] <lifeless> oh hmm, awilkins does the smart server on windows... but I wouldn't be surprised if he has loggerhead too
[22:42] <Noldorin> lifeless: ah right, i see
[22:42] <Noldorin> any chance of getting it on a shared server you think?
[22:42] <Noldorin> (virtual server i guess)
[22:42] <lifeless> I don't know what you mean
[22:43] <Noldorin> lifeless: well my point is that i don't have access to IIS7 directly
[22:43] <Noldorin> only a control panel - so i can't install arbitrary modules
[22:44] <lifeless> oh. well I've got no idea there sorry.
[22:45] <Noldorin> no worries
[22:46] <Noldorin> lifeless: loggerhead isn't purely web-based, right?
[22:46] <Noldorin> so it's going to require some hackery
[22:48] <lifeless> Noldorin: its a python wsgi web server
[22:48] <lifeless> you should be able to run it up, with some glue code, in any wsgi container
[22:49] <lifeless> or proxy to it from any proxy capable webserver (such as apache)
[22:49] <elli222> bzr-gtk makes nautilus crash in debian sid. anyone know a fix?
[22:49] <Noldorin> lifeless: i see. i'm not really a python coder (as you may remember), so that's probably asking for trouble
[22:49] <Noldorin> would be cool if someone else has already done it though
[22:50] <Noldorin> i guess if there's some sort of python web app equivalent to loggerhead, that would be ideal
[22:51] <lifeless> loggerhead is a python web app
[22:53] <Noldorin> lifeless: hrrm. probably just showing my ignorance here. i'm an ASP.NET guy mainly.
[22:53] <Noldorin> and python is installed on my server as well, but i guess i'm not sure exactly what that means
[22:55] <lifeless> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/
[22:55] <lifeless> http://code.google.com/p/isapi-wsgi/
[22:55] <lifeless> (just quickly googled for wsgi python and wsgi python isapi)
[22:58] <Noldorin> lifeless: yeah, guess i'll just have to ask my web admin then
[22:58] <Noldorin> thanks anyway
[22:59] <Noldorin> lifeless: oh, in case you're curious...if you remember those problems i was having with bzr via ftp on my iis server. seems upgrading to iis 7 solved it :P
[23:00] <lifeless> Noldorin: the crazy file system stuff?
[23:00] <lifeless> Noldorin: I'm curious if there were any other system changes made at the same time
[23:00] <Noldorin> lifeless: that's right. where we concluded the ftp server wasn't conforming to the rfc and such
[23:00] <Noldorin> so am i...
[23:00] <Noldorin> there was an upgrade to win server 2008 too
[23:01] <Noldorin> but i wouldn't know anything more
[23:02]  * lifeless guesses at the OS change being it.
[23:03] <Noldorin> lifeless: you think? more likely than the version of iis?
[23:03] <Noldorin> meh. once either gets completely phased out, your problem is solved anyway :P
[23:04] <lifeless> only another 10 years :)
[23:05] <lifeless> Noldorin: yeah, much more likely to be OS level - DFS stuff - than IIS
[23:05] <Noldorin> mm, makes sense i guess.
[23:05] <Noldorin> lifeless: probably not quite that long, but yeah :P
[23:05] <Noldorin> at least the problem is rare enough anyway
[23:06] <elli222> bzr-gtk makes nautilus crash in debian sid. anyone know a fix?
[23:08] <jelmer> elli222: Did this start recently? I was using nautilus with bzr-gtk installed for quite a while without problems
[23:10] <elli222> nope its happened whenever i've installed it
[23:10] <elli222> (in debian sid)
[23:12] <jelmer> elli222, in that case, no idea - sorry
[23:13] <elli222> well, what was your idea anyway? it might work regardless
[23:13] <jelmer> in that case it wouldn't be caused  by e.g. a new version of nautilus being introduced that's incompatible with bzr-gtk
[23:14] <elli222> it only crashes when trying to go into a directory containing SVN controlled folders. i don't have any native bzr ones.
[23:14] <jelmer> you should be able to disable the bzr-gtk integration in nautilus, that should at least allow you to use the other bits of nautilus
[23:14] <jelmer> elli222, does using bzr manually in those folders work?
[23:14] <elli222> hmm, i'll check
[23:15] <elli222> i assume bzr pull would be the same as svn up?
[23:16] <elli222> OK~ thats wrong
[23:18] <jelmer> no, bzr up
[23:19] <elli222> that appeared to work
[23:19] <elli222> yep, it worked
[23:19] <jelmer> can you try accessing a native bzr branch with nautilus?
[23:19] <jelmer> you should be able to create one with 'bzr init'
[23:21] <elli222> that also appeared to work
[23:22] <elli222> yep, seems like nautilus dosen't like bzr-gtk and bzr-svn
[23:24] <elli222> looks like bzr-gtk has a spasm with SVN aswell
[23:26] <jelmer> and what about e.g. "bzr log" in a svn working copy?
[23:27] <elli222> that works fine
[23:30] <jelmer> hmm, that's odd
[23:30] <jelmer> do you have any something likme nautilus-svn installed as well perhaps?
[23:31] <elli222> nope
[23:46] <pace_t_zulu_> hey i've got a bzr problem that i can't solve on my own
[23:47] <lifeless> perhaps you should describe it and ask a question :)
[23:48] <jelmer> elli222, not quite sure what's happening then
[23:49] <jelmer> elli222: please file a bug report
[23:49] <jelmer> elli222, you should be able to work around the problem by uninstalling either nautilus-bzr or bzr-svn if you are not using either of them
[23:49] <jelmer> *one
[23:51] <pace_t_zulu_> http://pastebin.com/d42185bf3
[23:51] <pace_t_zulu_> lifeless, ^
[23:51] <pace_t_zulu_> when i try to commit i get that error message
[23:53] <spiv> pace_t_zulu_: run bzr break-lock lp:~jhaitas/gnome-panel/panel-layout
[23:53] <pace_t_zulu_> spiv, ty
[23:54] <pace_t_zulu_> later
[23:56]  * igc out for a few hours -bbl