[09:00] <sebsebseb> hi
[13:00] <jcastro> woo hoo!
[13:00] <jcastro> how is everyone doing today?
[13:00] <tcarrondo> :)
[13:00] <tcarrondo> I'm here
[13:01] <tcarrondo> so that's me
[13:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[13:01] <tcarrondo> Hi everyone, my name is Tiago Carrondo I'm an IT trainer for the last 7 years
[13:01] <tcarrondo> I teach a lot of uninterresting stuff, but since 2008 most of my session are about Ubuntu
[13:02] <tcarrondo> I see almost everyday all the resistence and dificulty people have to change from one OS to another.
[13:02] <tcarrondo> So my work here today is to share with all of you what I think is the best confortable way to really start using Ubuntu everyday for all our ordinary tasks,
[13:02] <tcarrondo> and don't just do a simple dualboot where there is a work space area (Win) and "the other thing" where I go to just try and play some youtube videos (Ubuntu)
[13:03] <tcarrondo> Feel free to ask all the questions you have, in #ubuntu-classroom-chat with the prefix "QUESTION:"
[13:03] <tcarrondo> I hope my rusty English don't betray me...
[13:03] <tcarrondo> .
[13:03] <tcarrondo> I'm assuming you all are experienced with both Win and Ubuntu installation
[13:03] <tcarrondo> And I promise that during the next week or so I'll share with you more detailed instructions of all the steps I will present here today for those of you that need it
[13:04] <tcarrondo> .
[13:04] <tcarrondo> Let's start then!
[13:04] <tcarrondo> .
[13:04] <tcarrondo> When a person is willing to start a everyday usage of Ubuntu needs to have in it all the documents, photos, videos, ttf, mails, bookmarks, emails, calendar, ...
[13:05] <tcarrondo> That are present in his regular everyday system.
[13:05] <tcarrondo> First step is to rearrange partitions: I normally advise using 1 NTFS for Win 2 for Ubuntu (swap + EXT4 for /) and a third one for all the rest NTFS too, so that it can be accessed from both systems with no trouble (today I'll call it "STUFF")
[13:06] <tcarrondo> The idea is to isolate the system files in their own partitions and all the shareable data in the third
[13:06] <tcarrondo> sounds simple, and it really is! :)
[13:07] <tcarrondo> After installing both OS we should create in STUFF  a folder named with the user of the system
[13:08] <tcarrondo> Inside that folder we should create our personal folders ; Docs, Photos, Music, Videos, Downloads
[13:09] <tcarrondo> Then in Win we change the locations os theses folders to those in STUFF
[13:10] <tcarrondo> And do the same in Ubuntu
[13:10] <tcarrondo> First problem solved: Now we have all our personal files seamlessly tidy
[13:11] <tcarrondo> I can now open that document that I have in that specific folder of my Docs
[13:12] <tcarrondo> .
[13:12] <tcarrondo> After a few docs opened we start noticing that there are some ttf missing!
[13:13] <tcarrondo> Next step: sync ttf with Win
[13:14] <tcarrondo> some tutorials explain how to add a single ttf file or a folder,
[13:14] <tcarrondo> but I prefer to create a link inside /usr/share/fonts/truetype to my win Fonts folder
[13:15] <tcarrondo> and then just run "fc-cache" regularly or create a monthly cron for doing that :)
[13:15] <tcarrondo> .
[13:16] <tcarrondo> Don't forget to ask all the questions you have in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[13:16] <tcarrondo> .
[13:17] <tcarrondo> After those 2 steps we can now spend at least 50% of our worktime in Ubuntu
[13:18] <tcarrondo> Let's to to INternet navigation:
[13:18] <tcarrondo> Almost everyone knows (and uses) Firefox and Chrome(ium)
[13:19] <tcarrondo> Both browsers have sync options for bookmarks, prefs, settings that are OS independent
[13:20] <tcarrondo> So you just need to set up those services and you'll have the same Firefox or Chrome, no matter what's the OS you're using
[13:21] <tcarrondo> For those who really like IE, you can use Xmarks and have the same job done
[13:22] <tcarrondo> syncing in Ubuntu with Chromium or Firefox
[13:23] <tcarrondo> 20 min passed and still no questions, there are 2 possibilities: I'm doing a great job or everybody's a sleep...
[13:24] <tcarrondo> Next in line is my precious calendar service
[13:24] <tcarrondo> .
[13:25] <tcarrondo> I use google calendar
[13:26] <tcarrondo> it's really simple to add it to my desktop, using Sunbird or thunderbird
[13:26] <tcarrondo> on both Ubuntu and Win
[13:26] <tcarrondo> And my Android, of course..
[13:27] <ClassBot> taliraj asked: by changing the location, you meann the path of the folders? how do we do that on ubuntu? I'm not sure i have andersted this....when i open the document folder in my home, i can see the files which are in STUFF. sorry for my english
[13:27] <tcarrondo> taliraj, great question!
[13:27] <tcarrondo> I've tried a lot of procedures for doing this
[13:28] <tcarrondo> the simplest is drag n drop
[13:28] <tcarrondo> I open my personal folder
[13:28] <tcarrondo> delete the Documents folder
[13:29] <tcarrondo> then just CTRL + SHIFT drag n drop the docs folder in STUFF to my personal folder
[13:30] <tcarrondo> and rename it Documents
[13:30] <tcarrondo> and of the links are restablished everywhere
[13:31] <tcarrondo> some other ways i've tried don't work as good as this
[13:31] <tcarrondo> taliraj, hope I've cleared your doubt (my english is limited too)
[13:32] <tcarrondo> No more questions, I'll continue
[13:33] <tcarrondo> for email service I use gmail (or gapps)
[13:33] <tcarrondo> and once more I use Thunderbird as a client
[13:34] <tcarrondo> that can be configured same way in both OS
[13:35] <tcarrondo> I don't know if there's a way of sharing the complete Thunderbird profile folder between OS, so that I just need to configure things in one place
[13:36] <tcarrondo> but I haven't got the time to run some tests yet, so I allways configure mail and calendar twice :)
[13:38] <tcarrondo> With these steps most people can start using Ubuntu for their regular tasks, as if they where in their old OS
[13:38] <tcarrondo> And I one more step, that helps me a lot
[13:39] <tcarrondo> saving time and bandwidth
[13:39] <tcarrondo> that is: don't double syncing my cloud files
[13:40] <tcarrondo> I use both U1 and dropbox
[13:41] <tcarrondo> but I haven't really tried U1 in Win yet, so for now I'll stick with dropbox
[13:42] <tcarrondo> When dropbox is installed there's a folder in my personal folder with all my contents
[13:42] <tcarrondo> but Win has one and Ubuntu another
[13:43] <tcarrondo> if I use the same folder for use with both Ubuntu and Win, I'll spend less bandwidht e significant less time
[13:43] <tcarrondo> So, we go back to STUFF partition and create a Dropbox folder
[13:44] <tcarrondo> Then you just have to point your Dropbox software to that folder in Ubuntu let it sync everything and then in Win (or the contrary)
[13:44] <tcarrondo> This can be done during installation
[13:44] <tcarrondo> or in the preferences menu after install
[13:45] <tcarrondo> theres just an Issue with this
[13:45] <tcarrondo> when we reboot switching OS too quickly, once in a while it creat 1 or 2 conflicted version of files
[13:46] <tcarrondo> Any questions?
[13:47] <tcarrondo> Or suggestions?
[13:47] <tcarrondo> I'm almost done then
[13:49] <tcarrondo> Just tell you that I tried this formula a lot of times, with unexperienced users, and the results are great
[13:50] <tcarrondo> We have 10min left
[13:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:52] <ClassBot> taliraj asked: How can we mont STUFF on startup?
[13:53] <tcarrondo> taliraj, thanks for helping me not feeling alone in here :)
[13:54] <tcarrondo> the easy way:  install ntfs-config
[13:55] <tcarrondo> you can also edit /etc/fstab (the "a little more hard way")
[13:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:56] <ClassBot> Deckard3 asked: sorry i haven't the begining but as u say to make a partition for dropbox, also we can use that same partition for thunderbird , right?
[13:57] <tcarrondo> We use a dropbox folder in another partition that can be accessed for both win and ubuntu
[13:58] <tcarrondo> as for Thunderbird, theoretically it should work
[13:58] <tcarrondo> but I haven't tried yet
[13:59] <tcarrondo> 2min
[13:59] <tcarrondo> 1 more question?
[14:00] <tcarrondo> taliraj,  I'll my students will help me publishing the detailed tutorials for each one of these steps until sunday :)
[14:00] <tcarrondo> so that I can share them with everyone in PT and in EN
[14:00] <tcarrondo> Thanks for coming to this session, good luck with your next dualboot
[14:01] <tcarrondo> I leave you with dpm
[14:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[14:03] <dpm> hi everyone
[14:03] <dpm> I hope you liked tcarrondo's great session
[14:03] <dpm> now it's translation time! :-)
[14:04] <dpm> I prepared a series of slides for the session, which you'll find here and should make it easier for you to follow along:
[14:04] <dpm> http://ubuntuone.com/2BO0P9Vt1Pp40dhiXXHnZv
[14:04] <dpm> For those of you using Lernid, the [SLIDE n] commands should get you to the right page in the presentation. For everyone else, they should help you knowing which slide I'm taling about each time.
[14:05] <dpm> [SLIDE 1]
[14:05] <dpm> My name is David Planella, and I work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator in Canonical, in the Community team
[14:06] <dpm> there I have the pleasure to work with Ubuntu legends such as Ahmed Kamal, Jorge Castro, Daniel Holbach, and least but not last our fearless leader, Jono Bacon.
[14:06] <dpm> Most importantly, I have the privilege of working with the awesome Ubuntu Translations community
[14:07] <dpm> Be very welcome to this session on Ubuntu Translations, where we'll see:
[14:07] <dpm>  - How Ubuntu can be translated into almost any language,
[14:07] <dpm>  - The work of our (again) awesome translation teams,
[14:07] <dpm>  - How Launchpad can be used to translate Ubuntu in a distributed manner,
[14:08] <dpm>  - And how to get started translating Ubuntu
[14:08] <dpm> Oh, I almost forgot: I've reserved some time at the end of the session for questions, but feel free to ask them at any time during the talk
[14:09] <dpm> Just remember to ask them on #ubuntu-classroom-chat and to prepend them with QUESTION:
[14:09] <dpm> So, without further ado...
[14:09] <dpm> [SLIDE 2]
[14:09] <dpm> Benvinguts, Willkommen, Bienvenidos, ようこそ, Welcome, 환영합니다, Bem-vindo, Ongietorri, স্বাগতম, Welkom, Mirë se erdhët, Bienllegáu, እንኳን ደህና መጡ, Вітаем, مرحبا, Dobro došli, Donedigezh vat, Добре дошли, 歡迎, Dobrodošli, 欢迎, Velkommen, Welkom, Bonvenon, Tere tulemast, Tervetuloa, Bienvenue, Wolkom, Benvido, Καλώς ήρθατε, ברוכים הבאים, Üdvözöljük, Ve
[14:09] <dpm> lkomin, Selamat Datang, Benvenuti, ಸುಸ್ವಾಗತ, Witôj, Қош келдіңіз, Esiet sveicināti, Sveiki, Selamat Datang, स्वागतम्, Velkomen, Benvenguda, Witamy, Bun venit, Добро пожаловать, Добродошли, Vitajte, Välkommen, நல்வரவு, ยินดีต้อนรับ, Hoşgeldiniz, Ласкаво просимо, خوش آمدید, Chào mừng, مەرھابا !!!
[14:10] <dpm> (if I've forgotten to welcome in your language, do write a big "welcome" in #ubuntu-classroom chat, and I'll include it here too :)
[14:11] <dpm> Ubuntu has a very diverse community, and one of the aspects this diversity is directly reflected is in the number of languages it is translated into,
[14:11] <dpm> and the strong communities built around them.
[14:12] <dpm> As of Ubuntu 11.10, Natty Narwhal, the OS is translated into nearly 40 languages
[14:12] <dpm> and many more nearly complete
[14:13] <dpm> Check out the impressive work of our translators:
[14:13] <dpm> http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ubuntu-11.10-translation-stats.html
[14:13] <dpm> pretty cool, eh? :)
[14:14] <dpm> [SLIDE 3]
[14:14] <dpm> "Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice" lies at the very core of the Ubuntu philosophy
[14:14] <dpm> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
[14:15] <dpm> which is why we encourage the creation of translation communities and provide them resources to ease the process of translation into their own language
[14:15] <dpm> so that anyone, without requiring advanced technical skills, can start contributing from day one.
[14:15] <dpm> So let's try to answer some basic questions...
[14:16] <dpm> [SLIDE 4]
[14:16] <dpm>
[14:16] <dpm> Who translates Ubuntu?
[14:16] <dpm> ----------------------
[14:16] <dpm> That's an easy one: Ubuntu Translators :-)
[14:17] <dpm> They are volunteers who organise themselves in translation teams, appointed to be responsible for the translation of a given language.
[14:17] <dpm> And
[14:17] <dpm> they
[14:17] <dpm> just
[14:17] <dpm> rock
[14:17] <dpm> repeat it with me :)
[14:17] <dpm> You can see the full list of Ubuntu translation teams here:
[14:17] <dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
[14:18] <dpm> which is another impressive list
[14:19] <dpm> We've currently got about 160, of about 300 registered languages for Ubuntu in Launchpad, our translation tool
[14:20] <dpm> So if there isn't an Ubuntu translation team for your language, now is the chance to create one :)
[14:20] <dpm> but more on that later
[14:20] <dpm> Also very important to mention is the work of upstream translators, whose effort Ubuntu benefits greatly from.
[14:21] <dpm> Ubuntu includes the best-of-breed Open Source software of the many independent projects available, which is what we call upstream.
[14:21] <dpm> Translations are no exception, and if these upstream projects are translated outside of Ubuntu, we import and use the awesome work of upstream translators
[14:21] <dpm> Let's see some numbers about our amazing translations community:
[14:21] <dpm> nearly 18.000 translators who've submitted at least one translation,
[14:22] <dpm> coming from more than 240 countries.
[14:22] <dpm> A default Ubuntu installation contains about 160.000 translatable messages,
[14:23] <dpm> which can go up to 475.000 when adding non-default apps such as GIMP, Inkscape, etc.
[14:23] <dpm> So you see that there's a lot of work to do, and _you_ can help in making Ubuntu better supported in your language.
[14:23] <dpm> Let's se how...
[14:23] <dpm> ah, before going further, any questions so far?
[14:24] <dpm> it seems we're good :)
[14:24] <dpm> [SLIDE 5]
[14:24] <dpm>
[14:24] <dpm> How is Ubuntu translated?
[14:24] <dpm> -------------------------
[14:25] <dpm> We use our very own translations tool: Launchpad Translations
[14:25] <dpm> Launchpad Translations allows you to easily translate projects online
[14:25] <dpm> and seamlessly build and organise translation communities around them.
[14:26] <dpm> It also allows translating complete Operating Systems, Ubuntu being the most prominent example.
[14:26] <dpm> You can start translating Ubuntu here:
[14:26] <dpm>     https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[14:27] <dpm> There you'll see a list of translatable applications and documentation, ordered by priority and ready to translate
[14:27] <dpm> The colored bars you see is the percentage of translation: green meaning translated messages and red untranslated ones
[14:28] <dpm> Which comes handy when trying to track progress and find out which apps need to be translated
[14:29] <dpm> In any case, you'll need a Launchpad account to contribute to translations
[14:30] <dpm> It's really easy to create one, and the great thing is that it will allow to log in to other Ubuntu services. It's a unified login for all, so you will only need to create one account ever to contribute to Ubuntu.
[14:31] <dpm> And for those of you familiar with OpenId, the account is OpenId-enabled, which means you can even use it as a login to some external sites!
[14:32] <dpm> Anyway, talking about submitting your first translations to Ubuntu, instead of going to the Launchpad URL in your browser,
[14:32] <dpm> alternatively, you can go directly to translatable applications in Launchpad from your desktop.
[14:32] <dpm> If you open an application and go to Help > Translate this application...,
[14:32] <dpm> your browser will be started and it will take you to the Launchpad Translations page for that application.
[14:32] <dpm> Which is pretty neat
[14:33] <dpm> You can try this: open Gedit, go to "Help > Translate this application..." and see it for yourself.
[14:33] <dpm> (I'll leave you some time to try it out)
[14:35] <dpm> On the browser window that opens you can start submitting translation suggestions from day one.
[14:35] <dpm> This will take you to the translation page in your preferred language
[14:35] <dpm> which you can then click on and you'll see the list of translatable applications for
[14:36] <dpm> in Launchpad, using the standard translations terminology, these are called templates
[14:36] <dpm> and are the translatable units translators work with
[14:36] <dpm> I really recommend using Launchpad for online translation
[14:36] <dpm> it is really easy and flexible
[14:37] <dpm> and it allows saving your work, even before it is reviewed, facilitating the QA work
[14:37] <dpm> to ensure users get high quality translations
[14:37] <dpm> that said, if you prefer translating offline, Launchpad Translations is flexible enough to let you download PO files (the underlying text files used for translations)
[14:38] <dpm> to be used in offline translation tools
[14:38] <dpm> These files are standard, so you can use any PO file editor available out there
[14:38] <dpm> You'll find a bunch in the Ubuntu Software Centre
[14:39] <dpm> Ok, let's move on, any questions so far?
[14:39] <dpm> [SLIDE 7]
[14:40] <dpm> all right then, next:
[14:40] <dpm>
[14:40] <dpm> How can I contribute?
[14:40] <dpm> ---------------------
[14:40] <dpm> As in any Open Source project, the important thing is communication.
[14:41] <dpm> While everyone can submit translation suggestions in Launchpad,
[14:42] <dpm> they will need to be reviewed by Ubuntu translation teams before being used.
[14:42] <dpm> We do not only want to provide the best translated OS, but also the best quality of translations.
[14:42] <dpm> So we also encourage translation teams to communicate through any means appropriate
[14:43] <dpm> most teams use a mailing list
[14:43] <dpm> but others also forums, IRC, etc.
[14:43] <dpm> and most of them have also got a wiki page in the Ubuntu namespace
[14:43] <dpm> where they coordinate their work
[14:44] <dpm> So the next step in contributing to Ubuntu Translations is to get in touch with the translation team for your language,
[14:44] <dpm> and tell them you'd like to contribute.
[14:45] <dpm> It's easy: you can just find them on
[14:45] <dpm>     https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
[14:45] <dpm> On that page, you can simply click on the links under the "Team/Supervisor" column and they will take you to the Launchpad page for the team
[14:45] <dpm> You see that finding the language is easy, it's on the column on the left
[14:45] <dpm> and most translation teams are named as follows:
[14:46] <dpm> "Ubuntu <language> translators"
[14:46] <dpm> where <language> is the name of the language they translate into
[14:46] <dpm> on their Launchpad page you'll find all the info you'll need to get in touch with them
[14:46] <dpm> If there isn't a team for your language yet, you should definitely start one
[14:47] <dpm> You can do it by following these simple steps:
[14:47] <dpm>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam
[14:47] <dpm> creating a team is a one-off thing, which shouldn't take too long
[14:48] <dpm> and after the new team has been appointed, you can start translating in Launchpad straight away
[14:48] <dpm> If that step gets too technical for you, do not worry
[14:48] <dpm> You can always get in touch with the global translations community and ask for help or advice, which is always a good idea
[14:48] <dpm> Also if you want to start any discussion on Ubuntu Translations
[14:49] <dpm> In true Ubuntu spirit, everyone is welcome there, and you'll get to know lots of interesting people from all over the globe :)
[14:49] <dpm> Here's how to get in touch with the global translations community:
[14:49] <dpm>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact
[14:50] <dpm> To wrap up, I'd also recommend you to look at these pages to get started with translations:
[14:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:50] <dpm> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/
[14:50] <dpm> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/QuickStartGuide
[14:51] <dpm> [SLIDE 8]
[14:51] <dpm>
[14:51] <dpm> Q&A
[14:51] <dpm> ---
[14:51] <dpm> So I hope that that gave you a taste of how translation works in Ubuntu and how you can join our awesome translators.
[14:51] <dpm> Now feel free to ask any questions about anything related to translations.
[14:51] <dpm> Bring them on! :-)
[14:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:56] <dpm> So if there are no questions, I'll just say thanks for listening in, I hope you enjoyed the session and hope to see some of you translating Ubuntu in the near future! ;-)
[14:56] <dpm> cheers!
[15:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:00] <akgraner> hi all!
[15:00] <akgraner> Hi I’m Amber Graner and I’m an active Ubuntu user and Ubuntu Community member and all around FOSS advocate. I’ve been a volunteer in some form or fashion since I was a pre-teen - within my hometown, High School Marching Band, Red Cross, MS Society, Religious Organizations, US Army, Family Readiness Groups, PTO/PTAs and more. I’m excited to share my thoughts on volunteerism and leadership.
[15:01] <akgraner> Within the Ubuntu Comunity, I’m an active blogger, co-author of the 6th Edition of the Official Ubuntu Book, former Ubuntu Women Leader, Active on the NC LoCo team, and recently elected to the Ubuntu Community Council and active on the newly formed Ubuntu Leadership Team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership). So leadership and volunteerism is something I love to learn about and share.
[15:02] <akgraner> So let’s get started! :-)
[15:03] <akgraner> (If I go to fast or to slow - someone ping me in -chat and I'll adjust)
[15:03] <ClassBot> cprofitt asked: How did you become involved in the Offical Ubuntu Book?
[15:04] <akgraner> At first I was asked if I would be a reviewer then from there was asked if I would help co-author - and each cycle we always look for new reviewers
[15:05] <akgraner> I was asked by other authors and the confirmed through the publishers
[15:05] <akgraner> First - Thank you all for attending!
[15:05] <akgraner> Leadership is something that is talked about a lot in our community these days?  What does that mean really?
[15:06] <akgraner> A common definition of a leader is “A leader is a person who influences a group of people towards the achievement of a goal.”
[15:06] <akgraner> In the Ubuntu Community we have many wonderful people who voluntarily take on the roles and responsibilities to become a leader; those individuals who give selflessly of their time, talent and treasure are known as the leadership throughout our community.  Whether it’s on one of the many councils, boards, teams, or projects they lead; they are leaders! (Thank you all for taking on those roles  - you are appreciated and you matter!)
[15:06] <akgraner> (from: http://akgraner.com/?p=1037)
[15:07] <akgraner> I am sure or at least I hope many of you attending and participating today are current leaders in some form or fashion as well as those of you who would like to become more involved with Leadership within the community.
[15:08] <akgraner> In this session I want to go over some of the skills and leadership style that are needed to be an effective and efficient leader in a volunteer community. Specifically the Ubuntu Community,  but this information can tweaked for any group/leader.
[15:08] <akgraner> so let's look at this list
[15:08] <akgraner> *Delegates
[15:09] <akgraner> *Team Player
[15:09] <akgraner> *Goal-Orientated
[15:09] <akgraner> *Promotes Diversity
[15:09] <akgraner> *Polite
[15:10] <akgraner> *Confident
[15:10] <akgraner> *Supportive
[15:10] <akgraner> *Flexible
[15:10] <akgraner> *Organized
[15:11] <akgraner> *Communication Skills
[15:11] <akgraner> *Fair
[15:11] <akgraner> *Honest
[15:12] <akgraner> *Responsible
[15:12] <akgraner> *Sense of Humor
[15:12] <akgraner> *Good Role Model
[15:12] <akgraner> *Calm
[15:12] <akgraner> *Ethical
[15:13] <akgraner> *Assertive
[15:13] <akgraner> *Enthusiastic
[15:13] <akgraner> *Positive Attitude
[15:13] <akgraner> That's a pretty long list and it's often hard to balance all these at the same time
[15:14] <akgraner> Good Leaders take time to self-assess and figure out where they are weakest at and seek to improve upon those areas
[15:15] <akgraner> I know I don't always get them right all the time, but I do go over this list (as well as the others I'll be presenting a little later) constantly looking for areas I can improve upon
[15:16] <akgraner> People with these character traits are likely to be very successful in a number of life roles,
[15:16] <akgraner> and (LoCo, Team, Project) leaders who possess many of these traits have a good chance of influencing people to want to make the LoCo, Team, Project etc work well.
[15:16] <akgraner> But *every * leader has a starting point, and the best training many leaders receive is through the experience of helping out other team members.
[15:17] <ClassBot> cprofitt asked: Any advice for leaders on how to best self-assess?
[15:17] <akgraner> Sometimes that can be a difficult, but here's what I do - I ask people to look at the list and give me feedback (honest feedback)
[15:18] <akgraner> I look at comments that people give me when working on a project together
[15:18] <akgraner> I look at how I handled a given situation and ask if there was a better way I could or should have handled it
[15:19] <akgraner> however, if you search on like for leadership and self-assessment there are some good sites out there as well
[15:19] <akgraner> many of these sites are free to use - and can help you determine what type of leader you are and what areas you can improve upon
[15:20] <akgraner> (I don't have the list with me - but can add some of them I use to a blog post after this session)
[15:20] <akgraner> Any other questions about what I have listed so far?
[15:21] <akgraner> ok...great
[15:21] <akgraner> Leaders must have general goals to accomplish within the Team or Project, some of which include but aren’t limited to the following:
[15:21] <akgraner> (Looking at Ubuntu in this list but again these can be tweaked for other volunteer groups as well)
[15:21] <akgraner> * Understand the Ubuntu project goals
[15:22] <akgraner> * Create or improve the Project or Team
[15:22] <akgraner> * Convey the vision of the Ubuntu project goals to the Project or Team team.
[15:22] <akgraner> * Gain members’ support; let members know how they can help meet Project or Team  goals
[15:22] <akgraner> * Identify and recruit other leaders to chair meetings/lead within the group
[15:23] <akgraner> * Organize and plan for successful Project or Team events with the help of other team members.
[15:23] <akgraner> * Train every member (who wants to know) what to do as a leader with your Project or Team
[15:23] <akgraner> *  Encourage team members to talk, work, and socialize together.
[15:23] <akgraner>  * Actively promote diversity.
[15:24] <akgraner>  * Work through others to get tasks done.
[15:24] <akgraner> * Monitor leadership actions of key leaders.
[15:24] <akgraner>  * Assess progress toward Team or Project goals periodically.
[15:25] <akgraner>  * Change course when needed.
[15:25] <akgraner> * Praise people publicly and often.
[15:25] <akgraner>  * Interact effectively with the Ubuntu Councils, Boards, Teams Projects, and team members.
[15:26] <ClassBot> cprofitt asked: When dealing with conlflict between two team members or two sub-team groups what can you suggest as best practice?
[15:27] <akgraner> Keeping in mind this is my suggestion and my style may differ from others but here is how I try to work this out
[15:27] <akgraner> 1) understand what is behind the conflict
[15:28] <akgraner> is it an error in communication styles
[15:28] <akgraner> are the people really agreeing but can't see that? (sometimes that happens)
[15:28] <akgraner> 2) what motivates the people  - behind every disagreement are people who are passionate about the issue
[15:29] <akgraner> 3) Is it something that can or should be worked out  - sometimes people just have to agree to disagree - I mean is what they are disagreeing about within their control to change
[15:30] <akgraner> (example many people disagree with let's say Unity and they argue over it, but the people who are often arguing over it, don't have the power to change it)
[15:31] <akgraner> 4) is it due to leadership styles
[15:31] <akgraner> the way one interacts in a volunteer organization is rarely the same as a corporate situation
[15:32] <akgraner> so you have to get to the bottom of the conflict and sometimes that is tricky and unpleasant
[15:32] <akgraner> but once you figure that part out the work to resolve the issues can begin
[15:32] <akgraner> cprofitt, did that answer your question?
[15:33] <akgraner> also In Jono's Art of Community he lists some great strategies as well
[15:33] <akgraner> ok so any questions on the general goals list?
[15:34] <akgraner> keeping in mind those are broad goals and each project and team can narrow the scope of those based on the needs/goals of their particular team or project
[15:34] <akgraner> ok moving on :-)
[15:35] <akgraner> Are Teams and Projects within Ubuntu considered Social Organizations?
[15:35] <akgraner> short answer - Absolutely, yes!
[15:35] <akgraner> The social value of teams and groups in today’s Ubuntu Community is critically important. The fact is, without social mingling and meaningful, fun activities for all many projects and teams don’t/won’t survive for long.
[15:36] <akgraner> To be effective, Projects and Teams should have characteristics such as:
[15:36] <akgraner> (ok here's another list for you all)
[15:36] <akgraner> * positive, friendly, informal environment
[15:36] <akgraner> * no cliques
[15:36] <akgraner> * clear goals
[15:37] <akgraner> * meaningful, fun activities to participate in as a whole
[15:37] <akgraner>   * decentralized decisions
[15:37] <akgraner> * everyone included
[15:37] <akgraner> * timely, accurate information flow
[15:38] <akgraner>  * no gossip
[15:38] <akgraner> I can think of a few groups (LoCo teams) that do all these well
[15:39] <akgraner> or at least what I've seen - Florida, Vancouver, Pennsylvania and others
[15:40] <akgraner> I know there are others but the effectiveness  of these teams is a result of some awesome leadership
[15:40] <akgraner> How does a leader exhibit the traits and skills discussed so far and still get the job
[15:40] <akgraner> done?
[15:41] <akgraner> Can the leader be kind and considerate and achieve the goals of the project/team? What is the “job,” really?
[15:41] <akgraner> Recall that the job is to improve cohesion, morale, and self-reliance among people who have choices (to participate or not).
[15:41] <akgraner> Let’s look at some different leadership styles:
[15:42] <akgraner> * Directing—Leader is task oriented, with little group input, limited group experience or time.
[15:42] <akgraner> * Coaching—Leader is both task and group oriented; directs and encourages the group’s effort, but the group is more experienced and makes inputs to the process. The leader watches progress and coaches the group as needed to keep on track. This style of leadership is prevalent in business (especially big corporations).
[15:42] <akgraner>  * Supporting—Leader is group oriented; sets the overall project goals and supports the group’s efforts. The group has considerable experience and therefore makes major inputs  on planning and decisions. The leader review progress at intervals and suggests changes.
[15:43] <akgraner>  * Delegating—Leader is more interested in group interaction than the outcome of the project. The group is highly experienced, and they define the project goals, plan, make decisions, and control their own work.
[15:43] <akgraner> So, which leadership style should leaders in the Ubuntu Community use?
[15:43] <akgraner> (gald you asked :-D)
[15:43] <akgraner> glad even
[15:44] <akgraner> Very simply, for a volunteer group, coaching and supporting styles work best.
[15:44] <akgraner> (that's not to say that a combination of the these styles may have to be used)
[15:44] <akgraner> However, with more critical concerns, use coaching, but the directing style should rarely (if ever) be used. More routine tasks call for a supporting style, even delegation for simple ones.
[15:45] <akgraner> Ubuntu leaders may find it necessary to use any or all of these styles. The situation, experience of the group, and time needed to accomplish the task are all factors that help determine the style.
[15:45] <akgraner> Other  leadership skills include ability to supervise, motivate people, manage multiple projects, and work harmoniously with a variety of personalities.
[15:47] <akgraner> Here’s is a list of important activities for supervising/leading/managing people: (pick the term you like best)
[15:47] <akgraner>  * Know Volunteers - listen and track
[15:48] <akgraner> * Plan
[15:48] <akgraner> * Encourage
[15:48] <akgraner> * Support
[15:48] <akgraner> * Get Feedback
[15:49] <akgraner> * Evaluate
[15:49] <akgraner> * Correct Privately
[15:49] <akgraner> * Pitch In
[15:49] <akgraner>  * Praise, Say Thank You, let team members know they matter
[15:50] <akgraner> Supervising /leading/managing in a volunteer community may be different than your experience supervising in a business or other environment.
[15:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:50] <akgraner> Some team members may be more technically skilled than you are in some areas, or may have different goals than you and/or the group do.
[15:50] <akgraner> You don't have a supply-and-demand relationship or work flows common to most work environments. Instead, team members have both their own goals and their own skills.
[15:51] <akgraner> Effective volunteer leadership is often not really about making decisions. Instead, volunteer leadership is often about discovering the goals and skills of your fellow volunteer team members, developing a consensus of goals to pursue, and facilitating the details of that consensus so everybody has fun. It's also often about coaching, mentoring and providing feedback.
[15:51] <akgraner> Ok so that is a lot of information - any questions?  Anything I didn’t mention that you want to ask about?  Remember people are people, communities are communities and these leadership skills are a basic foundation to effective and efficient leadership.
[15:52] <akgraner> Also much of the information presented today is modified from other Leadership Handbooks for volunteer organizations I’ve been involved with which includes but not limited to, FRG’s (Family Readiness Groups), MS Society, Red Cross, PTO/PTAs and more.
[15:52] <akgraner> All this information and more is also included in the LoCo Leaders Handbook that the Ubuntu Leadership Team is currently working on - this initiative was started 4 cycles ago and is just now taking off (If you are interested in contributing to this Handbook or reviewing it - please let the Ubuntu Leadership Team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership)  know)
[15:53] <ClassBot> rrnwexec asked: Much of what we hear/read about under the topic of "leadership" is actually more about "management". Which of these do you feel is more difficult in a volunteer setting? And, which one is needed more in the Ubuntu project?
[15:54] <akgraner> I think I answered this one in the last part of the session  - also cprofitt posted a great link in -chat which is- http://guides.wsj.com/management/developing-a-leadership-style/what-is-the-difference-between-management-and-leadership/
[15:54] <akgraner> we have about 6 minutes left is there anything else?
[15:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:56] <akgraner> if not - then thank you all so much for attending - and I hope you found this session useful!
[15:56] <akgraner> talk amongst yourselves dpm is up next  with - Writing your first Ubuntu app....
[16:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:01] <dpm> hey everyone, and thanks akgraner for a great session!
[16:01] <dpm> Hello all
[16:02] <dpm> Welcome to this introductory session on writing an app for Ubuntu
[16:02] <dpm> aka the first step to becoming a full-blown Ubuntu App Developer :)
[16:03] <dpm> For those of you who've been to my earlier session a couple of hours ago,
[16:03] <dpm> you'll probably know me already and the session was good enough for you to stick for the second one
[16:03] <dpm> so thanks! :)
[16:04] <dpm> For anyone joining now, my name is David Planella, and while I generally work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator in the Community team at Canonical,
[16:04] <dpm> this last cycle I've been more and more involved in the app development community.
[16:04] <dpm> It's a new and exciting territory, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do
[16:04] <dpm> What we are going to see today is a very gentle but fast introduction to writing an app for Ubuntu, with a real and simple example you can play with on your own time, explore and expand upon
[16:05] <dpm> The idea is not to concentrate on the example itself, but rather to get you familiar with the tools and processes to use and to follow throughout your app's lifecycle, which hopefully will whet your appetite for more :)
[16:05] <dpm> And also to direct you to the right places to ask for help
[16:06] <dpm> The way the session will be structured will be a bit like the developer journey on the app developer site at developer.ubuntu.com,
[16:07] <dpm> so it will be similar to a tour through the site, which is the place you'll generally go to whenever you need more information or whenever you submit an app to ultimately be published in the Software Centre.
[16:07] <dpm> So something like:
[16:07] <dpm> 1. Get started
[16:07] <dpm> 2. Resources
[16:08] <dpm> 3. Publish
[16:08] <dpm> 4. Community
[16:08] <dpm> Oh, and the developer site is, of course, at http://developer.ubuntu.com
[16:09] <dpm> The time is limited, so we'll go into more detail into the more practical step of getting started, which is more fun, and we'll just say a few words on the other steps.
[16:09] <dpm> If you've got questions during the session, feel free to ask!
[16:10] <dpm> just do it on #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prepend them with QUESTION:
[16:10] <dpm> So,
[16:10] <dpm> let's roll
[16:10] <dpm>
[16:10] <dpm> The tools
[16:10] <dpm> ---------
[16:11] <dpm> Throughout the session we'll be talking about Quickly.
[16:11] <dpm> This is what we'll use to create Ubuntu apps. Quickly is nothing else than a command-line utility which acts as a wrapper around the tools we chose to be part of the Ubuntu SDK, if you will.
[16:11] <dpm> (people seem to like the SDK word)
[16:12] <dpm> It provides a set of commands to act as shortcuts to the key actions a developer most usually needs while writing a piece of software. They are quite handy, and they really make life easier for you.
[16:12] <dpm> Here are some examples of such commands:
[16:12] <dpm> $ quickly edit - to open your code files in an editor of your choice
[16:12] <dpm> $ quickly debug - to start debugging graphically your application
[16:13] <dpm> $ quickly package - to automatically package your app for you
[16:13] <dpm> Note that you don't have to use quickly commands if you are already familiar with the tools. Quickly just provides the glue and a few shortcuts. So for example using 'quickly save' is the same thing as 'bzr commit' (the Bazaar command).
[16:13] <dpm> You can see a nice overview of the underlying tools and the commands to activate them here:
[16:14] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/quickly-workflow/
[16:14] <dpm> The ones you'll see today are Python, Glade and a bit of Bazaar and Debian packaging, although those two will rather be working in the background
[16:15] <dpm> The other nice thing about quickly is that it installs all the packages you'll need to get started hacking on Ubuntu.
[16:15] <dpm> (as in hacking a new app)
[16:15] <dpm> So if you want to follow along and create your first app, go ahead and:
[16:15] <dpm> * Install quickly by opening http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/quickly on your browser
[16:16] <dpm> I'm assuming you are using Ubuntu 11.10, but the example app should also work with Ubuntu 11.04
[16:16] <dpm> We'll be writing some code in Python, and while you don't have to be a Python pro, I'm assuming some familiarity with the language or at least with another programming language.
[16:16] <dpm> (I'll wait for a minute to let you install quickly)
[16:19] <dpm> ok
[16:21] <dpm> oh, btw, in principle, you can use any combination of tools and programming languages for Ubuntu apps. It's just that we simply cannot support every single combination under the sun, so we made a set of oppinionated choices on the tools we think are best and are best supported in Ubuntu
[16:21] <dpm> and put them together with quickly
[16:21] <dpm> So if you create apps with quickly, they'll be easier to create, review and publish in the Software Centre
[16:22] <dpm> ok, let's move on to the fun part :)
[16:22] <dpm>
[16:22] <dpm> Step 1: Get started
[16:22] <dpm> -------------------
[16:22] <dpm> So here we are, ready to write our first app, already excited?
[16:22] <dpm> This is the stage we get straight to business and put on our developer hats for some hacking fun. At this point we generally have an idea of the type of app we want to write and go for the implementation.
[16:23] <dpm> In this case, we'll be writing a very very simple 'Hello world!' type of app, but with a twist: ours will be an 'Ubuntu rocks!' app.
[16:23] <dpm> You'll find the code available here for reference:
[16:23] <dpm> https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks
[16:23] <dpm> But we'll write it together
[16:24] <dpm> I'm adding the link here, as I say, for reference, and in case you get lost at some point.
[16:24] <dpm> What you see here is the version-controlled version of the app, safely hosted in Launchpad, the online collaboration tool for developing open source projects, another of our recommended toolset choices.
[16:25] <dpm> I'll be pointing to particular revisions in there to show you the changes throughout the app creation stage, but you can also download it to explore it.
[16:25] <dpm> You can do that by running the following command on a terminal:
[16:26] <dpm> $ bzr branch lp:~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks
[16:26] <dpm> (don't type the leading "$", it's just to mark that it's a command)
[16:26] <dpm> This will use Bazaar to fetch the code. Don't worry about the amount of lines of code there: most of it is boilerplate created by quickly.
[16:27] <dpm> This corresponds to the first stop in the journey of an Ubuntu App Developer, of which you can get a taste here:
[16:27] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/
[16:27] <dpm> You can watch the video later, it's short and gets quickly to the point, but for now, and given that we've already installed the tools, we'll start writing some code.
[16:28] <dpm> Enough talk, now let's get onto it for real!
[16:28] <dpm> 1. Open a terminal (press the Ctrl+Alt+t key combination)
[16:28] <dpm> 2. Run the following command (again, don't type the leading "$", it's just to mark that it's a command):
[16:29] <dpm>    $ quickly create ubuntu-application ubuntu-rocks
[16:29] <dpm>    -- This will create the boilerplate code for your app, and a first saved revision, so you can concentrate on other more important things :)
[16:30] <dpm> 3. Enter the folder where the code lives now, by running:
[16:30] <dpm>    $ cd ubuntu-rocks
[16:31] <dpm>    -- You'll see all the files Quickly created there. Don't worry too much about them for now, but you can examine them with the file browser later on (e.g. typing 'nautilus .' to fire up the file browser in the folder)
[16:31] <dpm> 4. Next up, we'll modify the AUTHOURS file to indicate we're the authors of the code. This is needed by some commands later on. Now type the following:
[16:32] <dpm>    $ gedit AUTHORS
[16:32] <dpm> 5. On the text editor window, add your name and e-mail, then you can save and close the file
[16:33] <dpm> 6. In order to keep our work, it is good practice to save revisions from time to time. Now it's as good a time as ever. You can do that now by typing:
[16:34] <dpm>    $ quickly save "Updated authors file"
[16:34] <dpm>    -- Now there is a revision identified by a number and the message you passed quickly saved under revision control. You can always come back to it if you like.
[16:35] <dpm>    -- This corresponds to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks/revision/2
[16:35] <dpm>    -- What you're looking at there is the state of the files at the stage I saved my work, which should be similar to yours, apart from a different e-mail and name, of course :)
[16:36] <dpm> 7. Now let's add some real code, fire up the text editor to open all the project files:
[16:36] <dpm>    $ quickly edit
[16:36] <dpm> Btw, is everyone fine so far? Any questions?
[16:38] <dpm> they tell me all fine on #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Cool, let's move on, then :)
[16:38] <dpm> 8. Modify the file focused on the editor (__init__.py), as follows:
[16:39] <dpm>    * Add an 'import appindicator' statement at the top of the file, so that we can use the appindicator module
[16:39] <dpm>    * Add the following piece of code after the '# Run the application.' line (use the same indentation!): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/713330/
[16:40] <dpm>    * This corresponds to revision http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks/revision/3
[16:40] <dpm> Compare that revision with your code to ensure they match before saving
[16:41] <dpm> So once you've done that:
[16:41] <dpm> 9. Now try to see if everything went well, run the application:
[16:41] <dpm> *drum roll*
[16:41] <dpm>    $ quickly run
[16:42] <dpm>    * If you didn't get any errors, hooray and congrats! Check out the new indicator at the top right-hand corner :)
[16:43] <dpm>    * If you did get errors, I'd recommend downloading the original app as explained earlier, or double checking that your code corresponds to the revision I mentioned on the last step (unfortunately we're tight on time on this session and can't provide much support)
[16:44] <dpm> Any success stories on #ubuntu-classroom-chat?
[16:44] <dpm> Yes! We've got a success story!
[16:45] <dpm> awesome
[16:45] <dpm> What you see there is your first ever Ubuntu app with indicator support! \o/
[16:45] <dpm> The code is relatively simple, and we just added indicator support through the indicator API, a menu and a few entries to populate the indicator. There are comments in the code that explain each bit in more detail
[16:46] <dpm> (3 success stories on #ubuntu-classroom-chat so far!)
[16:46] <dpm> 10. Now save your app by running:
[16:46] <dpm>     $ quickly save "Added an indicator with some entries"
[16:47] <dpm> 11. Let's modify the UI a bit, to direct people to the indicator and give you a taste of UI design. Fire up glade, the GUI designer:
[16:47] <dpm>     $ quickly design
[16:47] <dpm> 12. What you see are the widgets that are part of your app's main window. You can modify them visually with Glade. Go to the widget tree on the top right-hand side, expand the ubuntu_rocks_window until you find 'label1' and select it.
[16:48] <dpm> 13. Now go to the properties dialog below the widget tree and find the 'Label:' property. Change it to something like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/713357/
[16:48] <dpm> 14. Check out that the app runs with your UI changes:
[16:48] <dpm>     $ quickly run
[16:48] <dpm> Everything allright until here?
[16:49] <dpm> I'll have to go a bit faster as we're running out of time, but we're nearly done anyway
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:50] <dpm> I hear 'like delphi but with python. love it :)' from #ubuntu-classroom-chat :-)
[16:50] <dpm> 15. Save the final version of your app:
[16:50] <dpm>     $ quickly save "Modified the GUI with a note"
[16:50] <dpm> So you're done!
[16:51] <dpm> Well done to everyone who made it this far: your first Ubuntu app in just a few minutes, which is pretty cool
[16:51] <dpm> Let's go quickly through the next steps after this
[16:51] <dpm>
[16:51] <dpm> Step 2: Resources
[16:51] <dpm> -----------------
[16:51] <dpm> Once you've created your first app, you'll hopefully want to know more, to see where you can take your newly acquired and shiny app developer skills.
[16:52] <dpm> The answer is near: the resources section on developer.ubuntu.com:
[16:52] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/
[16:52] <dpm> There you'll find all the documentation and links to external documentation you need, including API reference, the platform overview diagram and tutorials.
[16:53] <dpm> This is a very new and growing section, and we need your help. In true open source style, you can also contribute your tutorials to be featured in developer.ubuntu.com!
[16:53] <dpm> Check out http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/all/
[16:53] <dpm>
[16:53] <dpm> Step 3: Publish
[16:53] <dpm> ---------------
[16:54] <dpm> Ultimately, the last step to ensure wide adoption of your app is to publish it to the Software Centre.
[16:54] <dpm> There it can be exposed to our million-wide user base so that they can enjoy what you've created.
[16:54] <dpm> In order to make this easy for you, we're also providing you some tools to make this incredibly simple for you. Enter My Apps:
[16:54] <dpm> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:55] <dpm> An online tool to submit your apps to be published to the Software Center
[16:55] <dpm> You'll find more info on the publishing process here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
[16:56] <dpm> If you're using quickly, you can use the 'quickly package' or 'quickly submitubuntu' commands to create packages ready tu upload to My Apps and be reviewed by the App Review Board, who will check the quality of the package and applications before being accepted into Ubuntu
[16:57] <dpm> You can try the 'quickly package' command with your app already to produce a working Debian package
[16:57] <dpm> You can then click on the resulting package to get Software Centre to install it on your system
[16:58] <dpm> But of course the real deal is when your package ends up in the Software Centre and gets exposed to all Ubuntu users
[16:58] <dpm>
[16:59] <dpm> Step 4: Community
[16:59] <dpm> -----------------
[16:59] <dpm> As I've got not much time left, let me point you to http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/
[16:59] <dpm> There you'll find all the info you need to get support, and if you like
[16:59] <dpm> to get involved in the app developer community
[17:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:00] <kenvandine> Hello everyone!
[17:01] <kenvandine> Thanks for joining me today, we'll be talking about what's going on with social networking in Ubuntu 11.10.
[17:02] <kenvandine> we'll have plenty of time for questions at the end, so please hold on to them for a bit :)
[17:02] <kenvandine> Ubuntu includes a social networking desktop service, named Gwibber.
[17:03] <kenvandine> Gwibber isn't new to Ubuntu, it has been included for quite a while now.
[17:03] <kenvandine> The intent isn't just to provide a twitter or facebook client, but it is to provide a means for you to interact with your favorite social networks.
[17:04] <kenvandine> Gwibber does include a client application that aggregates the social networking sites you love to use, into one convenient place as well as allow you to post to multiple accounts simultaneously.
[17:04] <kenvandine> For 11.10, the Gwibber client received a complete face lift, in fact a complete re-write.
[17:05] <kenvandine> The previous version had many great features, but ended up being quite limiting when we wanted to improve the overall user experience.
[17:06] <kenvandine> With the new Gwibber client, there aren't really many new "features" however it is important to note not all previous features made it in.
[17:07] <kenvandine> The most notable missing feature is the multi-column view, we'll work hard to make sure it returns in Gwibber 3.4 in Ubuntu 12.04.
[17:07] <kenvandine> as for new features, the long sought after native retweet support was added
[17:08] <kenvandine> both displaying retweets natively and retweeting
[17:08] <kenvandine> there is obviously still lots of room for improvement, but we'll talk about that a bit later on
[17:09] <kenvandine> Now lets talk a bit about other ways you can use your favorite social networking services from Ubuntu.
[17:09] <kenvandine> Integration in the messaging menu
[17:10] <kenvandine> in case people aren't familiar with the term, it is located at the top right side of your screen with the small envelop icon
[17:11] <kenvandine> the messaging menu displays (surprise) messaging related information
[17:11] <kenvandine> email, chat, social networks, etc
[17:11] <kenvandine> Included is numbers of unseen posts from gwibber
[17:11] <kenvandine> and a menu item for launching the update status poster, which we'll talk about in a bit
[17:12] <kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/indicator-update-status.png
[17:12] <kenvandine> hopefully you all recognize that
[17:13] <kenvandine> the unseen counts displayed aren't new for 11.10, but "Update Status" is
[17:13] <kenvandine> those counts get zeroed out when you display the stream where the count comes from
[17:13] <kenvandine> messages, replies, and private messages
[17:14] <kenvandine> ok, moving on
[17:14] <kenvandine> Integration in the Unity Launcher
[17:14] <kenvandine> lets start with the screenshot first this time, should save some explaining :)
[17:14] <kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/launcher-update-status.png
[17:15] <kenvandine> the Unity Launcher includes Quick menus, which are accessible on a right click
[17:15] <kenvandine> a right click on the Gwibber icon will raise this menu
[17:16] <kenvandine> which includes access to Accounts, Preferences, Update Status and Refresh
[17:16] <kenvandine> clicking on Refresh there makes gwibber refresh it's streams, which is normally done on a regular interval
[17:17] <kenvandine> this can also be accomplished with hitting F5 when the client is in focus
[17:17] <kenvandine> the gwibber icon on the Unity Launcher also displays an unseen count
[17:17] <kenvandine> similar to the count displayed in the messaging menu
[17:18] <kenvandine> only it is the sum of all the unseen, not broken down by messages, replies and private
[17:18] <kenvandine> this provides a nice view of what you have waiting for you, in easy view
[17:19] <kenvandine> now lets talk about the new Update Status Poster
[17:19] <kenvandine> it's a simple posting dialog, that does nothing else
[17:19] <kenvandine> accessible from the launcher and messaging menu
[17:19] <kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/update-status.png
[17:20] <kenvandine> you can post to all or any of your social networks without having the gwibber client running
[17:20] <kenvandine> everything i've mentioned so far is included in the default install of Ubuntu 11.10
[17:21] <kenvandine> now we'll talk about the Unity Lens for Gwibber
[17:21] <kenvandine> you can install it with http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/unity-lens-gwibber
[17:21] <kenvandine> or whatever method you prefer
[17:21] <kenvandine> with the lens you can:
[17:21] <kenvandine> Display all posts including videos, photos, links, replies, etc
[17:21] <kenvandine>   http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/dash-gwibber-filter-messages.png
[17:22] <kenvandine> Search and filter results
[17:22] <kenvandine>   http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/dash-gwibber-filter-messages-search.png
[17:22] <kenvandine> the lens also returns results in a global search, from the dash
[17:23] <kenvandine> or you can go right to the lens by clicking on the microblogging icon at the bottom of the dash or with the super-g key combination
[17:24] <kenvandine> the results are broken down by type, so messages, images, videos, links, etc
[17:24] <kenvandine> and you can filter by any of those types as well
[17:24] <kenvandine> in 12.04 you'll be able to also filter by account and probably more
[17:25] <kenvandine> the lens is brand new with gwibber 3.2 and ubuntu 11.10, so please help report bugs and make suggestions
[17:26] <kenvandine> so that is the state of things today, in 11.10
[17:26] <kenvandine> moving on...
[17:26] <kenvandine> Plans for Gwibber 3.4 (Ubuntu 12.04)
[17:26] <kenvandine>  * Multi-column view
[17:27] <kenvandine>  * Google + (assuming we get an API)
[17:27] <kenvandine>  * Live search (filters)
[17:27] <kenvandine> this would be filtering the results in the gwibber client just like we do in the lens today
[17:27] <kenvandine>  * Performance improvements
[17:28] <kenvandine>     * further reduce memory usage
[17:28] <kenvandine>     * speed up startup time
[17:28] <kenvandine>  * Improved account management
[17:28] <kenvandine>  * In-line viewing of more content (Videos, Images)
[17:28] <kenvandine>  * Photo/Video uploads
[17:28] <kenvandine>  *  Smooth scrolling
[17:29] <kenvandine> one thing I am pretty unhappy with in 3.2 is the step wise scrolling, like we had in the previous client
[17:29] <kenvandine> and the way it works makes the tiles jump around a bit when you scroll tiles that have comments or image previews in them
[17:29] <kenvandine> we'll make that slick and smooth for 12.04
[17:29] <kenvandine>  * User guide
[17:29] <kenvandine>  * Lens: improve filter selection (including filter by accounts) and categorization
[17:30] <kenvandine>  * Lens: clicking on a tile should raise the client and view the post
[17:30] <kenvandine>  * and hopefully, if we can find a volunteer we would love to see someone do some gnome-shell integration
[17:31] <kenvandine> so any volunteers... :)
[17:31] <kenvandine> which i guess takes us to my final topic
[17:32] <kenvandine> Do you want to help?
[17:32] <kenvandine> We need developers, designers, bug triage and documentation writers.
[17:33] <kenvandine> or example we have a great user guide the Vancouver loco wrote, however it needs to be updated to match the current version of Gwibber and converted to a format we can include in the help viewer.
[17:33] <kenvandine> great is an understatement... the vancouver folks really created an amazing guide
[17:34] <kenvandine> we would love to include it with gwibber
[17:34] <kenvandine> We also want a new logo
[17:35] <kenvandine> and help designing other various things, including how we can fit google + circles into gwibber
[17:35] <kenvandine> the concept does fit to nicely in an aggregated, multi-service client
[17:35] <kenvandine> but we really need to make it work, there is huge potential
[17:36] <kenvandine> just a couple examples, but there are many ways folks can help
[17:36] <kenvandine> If you are interested in helping in any way, please join us in #gwibber on Freenode.
[17:36] <kenvandine> or grab a bug on launchpad and propose a branch!
[17:36] <kenvandine> :)
[17:36] <kenvandine> now we have plenty of time for questions
[17:38] <kenvandine> for helping out, the gwibber service is all python and the client is vala
[17:39] <ClassBot> W8KWA-Charles asked: What social networking site does qwibbler support best?
[17:39] <kenvandine> twitter, facebook and identi.ca are all included in Ubuntu by default
[17:39] <kenvandine> so those clearly get the most attention and I focus a lot of effort in keeping them working well
[17:40] <kenvandine> status.net support is the same as identi.ca
[17:40] <kenvandine> foursquare is also in really good shape right now
[17:40] <kenvandine> there are also a couple of other services available that aren't maintained in gwibber, sohu and sina which are both very popular in china
[17:41] <ClassBot> nitstorm asked:  How are certain applications like Lernid able to have direct twitter capability, are they using Gwibber somehow discreetly in the background? Also, how's it possible to make applications that are developed integrate into tweeting/facebook-updates/etc..etc., via Gwibber?
[17:41] <kenvandine> we have libgwibber, which provides an API for using gwibber
[17:42] <kenvandine> lernid uses it
[17:42] <kenvandine> and software-center, if you notice when you rate an application
[17:42] <kenvandine> you can share your rating
[17:43] <kenvandine> even gives you a selector for choosing an account to post to or to post to all automatically
[17:43] <kenvandine> the API also lets other applications embed stream content
[17:43] <kenvandine> so for example, lernid could contain a pane that displays all the posts that match a hashtag
[17:44] <kenvandine> like #ubuntuopenweek
[17:44] <kenvandine> i would love to see more apps using it, if anyone has questions let me know
[17:44] <kenvandine> or just ask in #gwibber
[17:45] <kenvandine> we are constantly looking to improve the API
[17:45] <ClassBot> oliverhr asked: How can I configure timeline refresh for twiter?
[17:45] <kenvandine> in gwibber preferences, you can set the refresh interval
[17:46] <kenvandine> anymore questions?
[17:48] <kenvandine> ok, I guess that's it then!
[17:48] <kenvandine> thanks everyone for you time, I hope you all enjoy Ubuntu 11.10
[17:49] <ClassBot> nitstorm asked: Is there some other way to update status than go to Messaging menu and clicking "Update Status"? In < 11.10, we had a nice box integrated in the MeMenu to update status. Some way to re-enable that feature or something?
[17:49] <kenvandine> unfortunately not, indicator-me was merged into the session indicator and the posting entry was dropped
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:50] <kenvandine> i am hoping to have a default key binding for it so you can raise it with the keyboard
[17:50] <kenvandine> and am up for other suggestions as well
[17:50] <kenvandine> someone could easily write an indicator that does just that :)
[17:50] <kenvandine> using libgwibber
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html


[14:09]  * henrix will be out for a bit
[14:54] <ogra_> rtg, i added some info to bug 1042918 ... (now dont ask me where to get wl1271-nvs.bin)
[14:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1042918 in linux-firmware "no wireless networks detected during install of Quantal on Panda board" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042918
[14:54] <rtg> ogra_, just about to upload linux-firmware with a fix
[14:55] <ogra_> oh, awesome, i wasnt sure we even have that file available somewhere
[14:55] <ogra_> (i dont think it was needed in precise)
[14:56] <rtg> ogra_, I've been cleaning out unnecessary firmware files and removed that one erroneously because the kernel neglected to declare is usage.
[14:56] <rtg> its usage*
[15:13] <apw> rtg, that kernel is a lazy sonbitch
[15:13]  * apw may have a theory on davemor2's bug ... am spinning a kernel for him now
[15:16] <henrix> apw: not sure if you read my comment (and davemor2's reply) in bug report
[15:17] <henrix> apw: it looks like there's a workaround for it
[15:17] <apw> henrix, yes, as a result of looking at what the workaround does
[15:17] <henrix> apw: ah, ok
[15:17] <apw> henrix, i think when we drop the packet we don't reset it right and can get into a loop ... forever
[15:17] <henrix> apw: could it be related with 8a3f0ede2b3f5477122060af1a816c6bbf09fcd2 ?
[15:19] <apw> henrix, that'll teach me not to update my linus tree before debugging ... that is exactly what my patch does
[15:19] <henrix> apw: heh, cool :)
[15:19] <rtg> henrix, should we cherry-pick taht one ?
[15:19] <apw> davmor2, so ... if yo uhaven't started testing let me cherrypick this offical patch
[15:20] <henrix> rtg: i guess it's better to test it before cherry-pick
[15:20]  * apw is engaged with dave so i'll get the testing confirmed
[15:20] <rtg> henrix, frankly, I don't it'll hurt anything
[15:20] <rtg> apw, ack
[15:21] <davmor2> apw: me stops in his tracks
[15:22] <apw> davmor2, be about 5 mins to get teh updated kernels ...
[15:40] <davmor2> apw: right I'm back to a broken system
[15:41] <apw> davmor2, ok the newer dated test kernels in the same place as before
[15:50] <rtg> apw, I think you ought to apply them all: git log --reverse -p v3.5..HEAD -- drivers/media/video/uvc
[15:50] <rtg> they are all worthy of stable updates
[15:51] <davmor2> apw: sorry mainline or your fixed branch?  /me just remembered that you gave me 2 links
[15:51] <apw> davmor2, on my people.canonical.com
[15:51] <davmor2> apw: cool thanks
[15:58] <davmor2> apw: the one ending 1621 is install and cheese is running smoothly
[15:59] <apw> davmor2, nice i'll get it applied
[15:59] <davmor2> apw: that is amd64 that I tested
[16:00] <apw> davmor2, thats fine, its a clear generic issue any testing is gooed enough for me
[16:00] <apw> davmor2, applied, should be in the next upload
[16:01] <davmor2> apw: nice :)  I'll try a fresh install once I know it's in the iso and ensure that the desktop installer continues past the previous stuck bit
[16:02] <apw> davmor2, i suspect it won't make beta unless the stars align, i think we already uploaded for that
[16:02] <rtg> apw, I was just think I'm gonna upload this fix since it appears to affect a lot of folks.
[16:02] <apw> rtg .... ok
[16:03] <apw> rtg, if you are let me know so i can hold lowlatency for it
[16:03] <rtg> apw, will do. gimme a bit
[16:03] <davmor2> apw: if you let the release team know I'm sure it can get landed and once it is get them to give me a ping, I'm on 60meg fiber with zsync at the ready :)
[16:04] <apw> davmor2, heh ... ok
[16:05] <davmor2> now back to breaking developer portal
[16:28] <rtg> apw, pushed master and master-next
[16:28] <rtg> quick build tests, then uploading
[16:30] <apw> rtg, yekk w
[16:30] <apw> e
[16:30] <apw> rtg, rebasn
[16:30] <apw> rtg, rebasing ... (apparently after 20 beers)
[16:30] <rtg> apw, I was gonna say, something wrong with your keyboard ?
[16:30] <apw> rtg, let me know when your build tests are done and it is in the pipe
[16:31] <dileks> rebeering
[16:31] <apw> i wish
[16:43] <rtg> apw, uploaded after test building i386, amd64, and armhf. I'm reasonably sure the rest will build OK.
[17:11] <apw> rtg, ok lowlatency done
[17:27]  * rtg -> lunch
[17:36]  * cking -> EOD
[18:33] <rtg> apw, given the email problems I saw you mention to IS, I'm wondering if you missed this one: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2012-August/021801.html
[18:43] <apw> rtg, update-initramfs detects the kernel and does _not_ set the deferred triggers, it then lets the /etc/kernel.d/*thingy* hooks run things
[18:43] <apw> :
[18:44] <rtg> apw, why does this make me feel so dense ? don't we want it just freaking create the initrd when called ?
[18:45] <apw> rtg its all about cost.  you need to update the initramfs on kernel install, but also if you change initramfs-tools, /bin/sh, upstart, fsck, etc etc
[18:46] <apw> do all of those say "update-initramfs" and that triggers a delayed rebuild at the end of everything
[18:46] <apw> that delayed rebuild can only be for the current kernel
[18:46] <apw> for a new kernel we have to do it there and then and the hooks handle it
[18:47] <rtg> apw, its definitely triggering a delayed build (or rebuild), which is why I can't figure out how our postinst works.
[18:47] <apw> rtg, on omap4 or on x86, its definatly not delayed there
[18:47] <apw> (on x86)
[18:47] <rtg> apw, it says it is on x86
[18:47] <apw> update-initramfs: deferring update (hook will be called later)
[18:48] <rtg> tahts the line ^^
[18:48] <apw> that message does not mean it is delayed
[18:48] <apw> that means that its _not_ delayed
[18:48] <apw> its just being done at the end of the kernel package install
[18:48] <apw> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
[18:48] <apw> that one means its being proper delayed to the end of the apt-get
[18:51] <apw> :q
[18:58] <apw> ogra_, on your panda with kernel install issues what is in your /etc/kernel-img.conf
[19:01] <apw> ogra_, as in the past that file has gotten lost and that makes kernel installs go to put
[19:02] <apw> ogra_, poke me in the morning and we can discuss
[19:15]  * apw wanders to get provisions
[20:24]  * rtg -> EOD
[20:41] <bjf> jjohansen: next week we are building the last natty kernel \o/ if you have anything that you just have to have in it CVE wise, you better speak up quickly
[20:42] <jjohansen> bjf: okay thanks for the heads up
[20:44] <bjf> jjohansen: i didn't want to give you too much of a heads up because you might have found something if i did :-)
[20:44] <jjohansen> hehe


[05:02] <[Ubik]> wtf
[05:02] <[Ubik]> is newnet smoking?
[20:00] <cyberanger> I don't know, but they swear it's legal


[01:34] <JackFrost> FWIW, someone thought 'Drone' was offensive too at one point.  I don't buy that "just because someone does" bit myself.
[02:31] <el> im actually more sympathetic to complaints about drone than ass for complicated reasons
[02:31] <el> but, still not enough to actually act on it
[02:32] <JackFrost> !info thefuck
[02:32] <JackFrost> el: Sure, fair enough.
[02:33] <sarnold> you just can't stand bagpipes, eh?
[02:34] <Eickmeyer> That's called a chanter.
[02:34] <JackFrost> I've listened to metal bagpipes, mate.
[02:34] <JackFrost> I've even held bagpipes!
[02:35] <Eickmeyer> That's so metal.
[02:35] <JackFrost> For those wondering though, less 2 and more 3 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drone
[02:37] <el> (complicated reasons being that in its current use as an enforcer of authority it could be alienating to a decent subset of underprivileged populations who have trauma based on conflict zones, and also those with paranoid conditions)
[02:38] <JackFrost> Yep, sure.
[02:39] <el> which i think is a more compelling thing than "backsides, sex and poop are nono thoughts"
[02:39] <JackFrost> I wouldn't mind using the altnick more, even.
[02:39] <el> trq?
[02:40] <JackFrost> Yeah, just didn't think it was so popular amonst others.
[02:40] <el> it's not as descriptive. i personally like that drone is descriptive enough even if i understand criticisms of it
[02:41] <sarnold> el: ah, yeah, that makes sense
[03:19] <Eickmeyer> The nick, honestly, could be read as "DonkeyTractionHero". 🙄
[03:20] <sarnold> donkeys are legendary for their traction
[03:20] <Eickmeyer> Indeed.
[03:20] <Eickmeyer> Could pull a house off its foundation.


[08:03] <talismanick> Does cloud-init require SystemD?
[08:03] <talismanick> Can I use it with runit?
[08:17] <faa> this run on BSD wystem without systemd
[14:18] <smoser> talismanick: there is probalby some integration to do, but shoudl work without systemd.
[14:26] <minimal> talismanick: cloud-init works fine with other inits - I maintain cloud-init packages for Alpine Linux which uses OpenRC
[14:53] <falcojr> faa: disable_network_activation is released, but it needs to go in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg or cloud.cfg.d/ . We may add some additional error handling there to make that a warning rather than an exception
[22:05] <blackboxsw> falcojr: opt-in hotplug config module +1 with the exception of I think this should be PER_INSTANCE, not PER_ALWAYS. We don't want to keep reconstituting the udev rules of some admin decided to "turn off" udev hotplug support by removing the cloud-init udev rule. https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1069


[22:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Beta] (20230919.1) has been added
[22:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Xubuntu Minimal amd64 [Mantic Beta] (20230919.3) has been added
[22:52] <bluesabre> \o/
[23:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Ubuntu Budgie Desktop (Legacy) amd64 [Mantic Beta] (20230919.1) has been added
[23:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Beta] (20230919) has been added


[21:18] <Rosco2> I have a bug with a an Ubuntu task that can be deleted by Bug Control: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1009807
[21:18] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1009807 in Linux Mint "JavaEmbeddedFrame in Cinnamon" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:20] <Ampelbein> Rosco2: Deleted the ubuntu task
[21:31] <Rosco2> Thanks


[00:16] <snap-l> Good eeevening
[00:17] <snap-l> Had my first Blimpie's sub in a long time. And it'll be a long time until I go back to that bBlimpies.
[00:24] <brousch> they killed off all of our blimpies
[00:26] <brousch> tedxgrandrapids tomorrow
[00:26] <brousch> we're down to 1 car and my wife has a kidney stone. what are the odds i actually get to go?
[00:29] <snap-l> Ugh
[00:29] <snap-l> Hope she feels better soon. Been there, done that.
[00:29] <snap-l> Did they put in a stent?
[00:30] <brousch> no, just pain meds and flomax right now
[00:30] <brousch> she has basically slept since midnight last night to now
[00:31] <greg-g> I had a kidney stone once, the drive to the hostpital was the most painful thing in the world (minneapolis roads post-winter tear up and pre-summer patching)
[00:31]  * brousch gets another drink of water
[00:31] <snap-l> Yeah, there's nothing quite like a kidney stone
[12:48] <wolfger> Morning, peeps
[12:49] <wolfger> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/05/man-builds-comp.php#more
[13:22] <snap-l> G'morning
[13:24] <snap-l> That's pretty cool (the custom computer)
[13:25] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h9521/yesterdays_skype_blog_silverlight_required/
[13:28] <wolfger> so already it's veering away from cross-platform support.... ;-p
[13:58] <snap-l> I think I've figured out why I don't like Gib's use of Big Blue Button
[13:58] <snap-l> Picture an air-tight container with a limited supply of oxygen
[13:58] <snap-l> that is your bandwidth
[13:59] <snap-l> if everyone starts breathing at the same time, you all pass out
[13:59] <wolfger> ok, you hold your breath
[13:59] <snap-l> Gib wants to start a yodeling competition to entertain those who might be outside
[13:59] <wolfger> LOL
[14:00] <snap-l> I mean, conceptually, it's a great idea
[14:01] <snap-l> but in practice, you're already using a scarce resource
[14:02] <snap-l> and overuse just kills the whole enterprise
[14:03] <wolfger> well clearly the problem is the hosting site needs to provide more bandwidth
[14:03] <snap-l> It's not the site
[14:03] <tjagoda> He hosted it locally at penguicon
[14:03] <snap-l> it's using things like hotel bandwidth to start a broadcast stream
[14:04] <snap-l> It's using the ESD bandwidth to broadcast
[14:04] <tjagoda> Ran it over our Cisco network at penguicon
[14:04] <wolfger> *physical* site, not website
[14:04] <wolfger> sorry if I was unclear :-)
[14:04] <snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, that was a decent idea in theory
[14:05] <snap-l> tjagoda: Maybe if there was a back-channel network (staff, video, guest) that would be awesome
[14:05] <snap-l> again, not bagging on the idea, just the implementation
[14:06] <tjagoda> Thats..what there was
[14:07] <tjagoda> penguicon-staff was a unique SSID which is QoS's over all you other people
[14:07] <tjagoda> But we never ran out of bandwidth on the inside
[14:07] <tjagoda> just the pipe into the intarwebs
[14:07] <snap-l> tjagoda: Right
[14:08] <snap-l> again, using scarce resources. ;)
[14:08] <snap-l> also, it's not just Penguicon that Gib is broadcasting
[14:08] <snap-l> I think he needs to partner with Justin.tv
[14:08] <tjagoda> Unless you want to stream it outside of the hotel, in our case, we we're not scarce
[14:08] <tjagoda> we were*
[14:08] <snap-l> tjagoda: Bingo
[14:09] <tjagoda> When he thought up and pitched the idea, he had it framed as a tool for people inside the event
[14:09] <tjagoda> "Sit in one talk while watching another" kind of thing
[14:09] <tjagoda> I don't think we ever gave him an external IP
[14:09] <snap-l> Split attention = huge win for those who are presenting
[14:09] <tjagoda> (I agree)
[14:10] <tjagoda> Come to Penguicon and present really fast, because if you take to long, we're all on big blue button.
[14:10] <tjagoda> =P
[14:10] <snap-l> heh
[14:11] <tjagoda> So
[14:11] <tjagoda> just got around to reading the differences between 4k and 512b drives
[14:11] <snap-l> Thing is, he's pitched this at just about every event he's at, so I'm talking from a MUG perspective
[14:12] <snap-l> tjagoda: And, what's the conclusion?
[14:12] <tjagoda> Sometimes I read these things and wonder why we didn't do this sooner
[14:12] <snap-l> I had a guy argue with me that tweaking the sector size was so much better, and that 4K blocks were a waste
[14:12] <snap-l> because most of his files were less than 4K
[14:13] <tjagoda> It definitely makes more of an impact on sustained read/write, that's certain
[14:13] <snap-l> He was a complete efficiency nut
[14:13] <tjagoda> large read/write on windows 7 with 4k drives results in almost doubled thruoghput
[14:13] <tjagoda> wow
[14:13] <tjagoda> throughput*
[14:13] <snap-l> Yeah, the benefits of speed outweigh the drawbacks of storage
[14:14] <snap-l> It all depends on your application, frankly
[14:14] <tjagoda> WD claims they'll fit 7-11% more on every platter!
[14:14] <snap-l> if you're running a server with 100K small files, it might add up
[14:14] <tjagoda> So much more room for your <4k files!
[14:15] <snap-l> Heh
[14:15] <tjagoda> looking at my desktop
[14:15] <tjagoda> not counting icons/shortcuts
[14:15] <tjagoda> the smallest file I have is 15kb
[14:16] <tjagoda> With all the bloat and such that we shove into file formats and headers I'd imagine that at least 80% of what I encounter must be larger than 4kb?
[14:16] <snap-l> Again, if you're working with something that's like a mail server or a news server, there's potential for lots of really small files
[14:16] <tjagoda> hmm
[14:17] <snap-l> but most of my files are larger than 4K
[14:17] <tjagoda> Lets see if I can figure out how to see the size of my mails in outlook..
[14:17] <snap-l> His contention was taht if you have a 6K file, you have 2K that's unaddressable
[14:17] <snap-l> tjagoda: Outlook isn't going to work because it stores everything in a .pst file
[14:18] <snap-l> and with modern quoting, even a simple reply of "thank you" takes up 20K.
[14:18] <tjagoda> The headers and such of sectors are still the same in 4k?
[14:18] <tjagoda> You cant bridge thigns into one sector for the efficiency hats?
[14:19] <tjagoda> I do not know that much about how hard disk sectors are mapped
[14:19] <snap-l> I know a little
[14:19] <snap-l> Let's just say I'd rather have the head read 4K at a time than dart around trying to get 512b wherever it can
[14:20] <snap-l> I don't care about losing 1-3K to make sure I get overall good throughput
[14:21] <tjagoda> Truth
[14:21] <tjagoda> And we're also not on the space shuttle with 32 kb total
[14:21] <tjagoda> Cheap storage is cheap
[14:22]  * tjagoda pets the 6TB NAS with Windows Storage Server 2k8
[14:23] <tjagoda> I just got an email from corporate saying all the new Dell machines are moving to 4k advanced drives
[14:24] <wolfger> This is 2 or 3 kinds of ludicrous: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/12/germany.demjanjuk.trial/index.html?hpt=T1
[14:25] <wolfger> It took them 30 years to convict him? He's only getting 6 years prison for 27k+ murders?
[14:25] <snap-l> And he was a POW at the time
[14:26] <wolfger> yeah... I'm tempted to call that ludicrous as well, but I don't know the evidence used in court to find him guilty
[14:26] <tjagoda> They seriously need to stop
[14:26] <tjagoda> Most of those guards were probably victims more than they were evil jew-haters
[14:26] <wolfger> agreed
[14:27] <wolfger> "You will do this, or we will *ahem* replace you, and somebody else will do it."
[14:27] <tjagoda> qft.
[14:27] <snap-l> Well, and it's not like his conviction does anything about those who have been killed
[14:28] <snap-l> Whether it's Osama, or a Ukranian POW Nazi guard
[14:28] <snap-l> I'm sure someone thinks this is just
[14:33] <tjagoda> It's those jewish interest groups which own all the media, snap-l.
[14:33] <tjagoda> =P
[14:33] <snap-l> riiiight
[14:34] <snap-l> Blame George Soros, and you too cna be a political party. ;)
[14:36] <snap-l> http://www.perlbrew.pl/<- Virtualenv hits Perl. :)
[14:40] <ColonelPanic001> I should start my political party again
[14:41] <tjagoda> Does it have to do with sphagetti monsters?
[14:41] <tjagoda> The Party of the Holy Pastafarian?
[14:41] <ColonelPanic001> nein
[14:41] <ColonelPanic001> the red stapler party
[14:43] <ColonelPanic001> running joke from a forum I was on
[14:46] <snap-l> Nice... Just tried perlbrew, and apparently the compiler for 5.12.3 crashed on the machine that I was running it on
[14:55] <wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you're not a member of the Pirate Party? For shame.
[14:55] <ColonelPanic001> :\
[14:58] <snap-l> Anyone using mumble?
[14:59] <ColonelPanic001> only when I speak
[14:59] <rick_h__> I know canonical was using it for meetings/etc
[14:59] <snap-l> If so, please try connecting to lister.decafbad.net
[14:59] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm checking it out
[15:01] <snap-l> wondering if we can use it for podcasting. :)
[15:02] <rick_h__> yea, I've got on my list to look into a mixer and try to do the recording out of that vs the skype call recorder
[15:17] <tjagoda> I use mumble
[15:17] <tjagoda> Mostly for gaming
[15:17] <tjagoda> Not so easy to set up, or in the right format to replace skype
[15:22] <rick_h__> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#Recording
[15:23] <rick_h__> http://blog.mumble.info/for-the-record/ and that for the details looks good
[15:23] <rick_h__> and a nice ppa: http://blog.mumble.info/mumble-1-2-3-released/
[15:26] <Milyardo> ls
[15:31] <rick_h__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQS8EDG1P4 watch the first few min awesome
[15:31] <tjagoda> I am loving ESET Smart Security so much more than Symantec Endpoint
[15:31] <tjagoda> Cheaper?  Check.
[15:31] <tjagoda> Better?  Check.
[15:32] <tjagoda> Hogs less resources?  Check!
[15:33] <snap-l> That's awesome, rick_h__
[16:09] <rick_h__> wow, this python talk: youtube gets more than 35hrs of video uploaded every minute
[16:09] <rick_h__> so they have to handle encoding 2100 minutes - 1
[16:11] <krondor> so work just handed me a blackberry playbook to test
[16:12] <rick_h__> enjoy, tjagoda can tell you all about it
[16:13] <tjagoda> <3
[16:14] <krondor> first impression, it's bad.. but I'm still playing maybe I will change my mind.
[16:14] <tjagoda> What gave you that impression?
[16:14] <tjagoda> Everybody I've handed it to is usually receptive and liking of its UI
[16:15] <tjagoda> It's the mail and lack of apps that they furrow their brow upon
[16:15] <krondor> tjagoda:  it doesn't work with our corporate proxy redirect, the way you exit an app once you've launched it is not obvious (but once you learn it meh).  the lack of mail and apps (as you said)
[16:15] <krondor> the lack of password masking on typing (*x for shoulder surfers).
[16:15] <tjagoda> Did you do the startup guide?
[16:16] <tjagoda> When you turn on the playbook it very clearly and definitely tells you whats up
[16:16] <tjagoda> Dunno about proxies.  Only one I've used it behind is the Troy Marriott's
[16:16] <krondor> of course not because I was handed a playbook pre-started
[16:17] <krondor> startup guide isn't in the list of apps either
[16:17] <tjagoda> It is
[16:17] <tjagoda> Its called "setup"
[16:17] <tjagoda> Then "tablet basics" once you're in it
[16:18] <krondor> anyway, that's not a menu choice startup guide, but that's semantics anyway.
[16:19] <tjagoda> Usually it auto-launches on firstboot, so you ideally never have to go back and manually open it
[16:19] <tjagoda> But you've gone all funky
[16:19] <tjagoda> =P{
[16:19] <tjagoda> Multitasking between stuff with side bezel swips is a breeze though
[16:19] <snap-l> Well, Google voice failed 18 minutes into a conference call
[16:20] <krondor> that's how most people here would be handed one I'm assuming.  That's how they're handed a BB.  A desktop tech already configures things and gives it to them.
[16:20] <tjagoda> probably my favorite thing about the UI
[16:20] <krondor> snap-l:  I've stopped using Google Voice for conference calls lately :(
[16:20] <snap-l> Replacing Skype is going to be hard
[16:20] <tjagoda> Oops
[16:20] <krondor> it's webosy UI (cards for apps), some things seem slick, some are annoying.  How the hell do I go back a menu in setup?
[16:21] <tjagoda> in the tablet basics thing?
[16:21] <Milyardo> snap-l: Replacing skype for what purpose?
[16:21] <krondor> tjagoda:  in the wifi submenu of setup
[16:22] <tjagoda> There's a back button on the wifi config menus I think
[16:22] <tjagoda> or it autocloses once you hit enter
[16:23] <tjagoda> I can't remember which screen your in, setup was a long time ago
[16:23] <krondor> don't see it, and when you configure it dumps you back into the wifi list.  I just killed the app and relaunched it.  More playing is needed.  I'm curious about the Linux underpinnings.
[16:24] <tjagoda> afk, supposed to go celebrate nameless employee's 10 years of service
[16:25] <_stink_> hope for cake
[16:26] <snap-l> Milyardo: looking into alternatives
[16:29] <Milyardo> How were you using skype before>
[16:29] <Milyardo> ?
[16:29] <snap-l> I'd use it to join 800-number conference calls
[16:29] <Milyardo> a simple asterisk server should work then right?
[16:30] <snap-l> Milyardo: Do you normally offer seeds and dirt to people who come over for dinner? :)
[16:31] <Milyardo> Haha, I forget Asterisk is arcane to those who haven't configured one on a somewhat regular basis
[16:32] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm just looking for something to act like a speakerphone
[16:32] <snap-l> I have one, but it's nice to not have to tie up the home phone
[16:33] <Milyardo> buy the hosted asterisk account then I guess, like what callcentric offers or something
[16:35] <snap-l> Yeah, I'll need to do more investigation
[16:35] <snap-l> I already have VOIP via WOW!, so I'm not so concerned about that
[16:40] <Milyardo> So you just need a SIP client then? Good luck with that, they all suck
[16:42] <snap-l> Well, I'd like one for each
[16:42] <snap-l> and yes, I've tried Gizmo / Ekiga, and they're God-awful
[16:43] <Milyardo> Indeed
[16:46] <tjagoda> http://www.nch.com.au/talk/index.html
[16:46] <tjagoda> That's pretty good
[16:46] <tjagoda> ..in windows..
[16:47] <snap-l> Yeah, Skype filled the niche so perfectly that replacements are few and far between
[16:49] <tjagoda> http://www.sjlabs.com/sjp.html
[16:49] <tjagoda> There's SJPhone as well
[16:49] <snap-l> Um, no
[16:49] <Milyardo> snap-l: More like VOIP is so patent incumbered that Skype is the only one who bought enough liscensing to provide a client more functional than what you'd expect from applications in 1997
[16:49] <snap-l> Not getting into some bullshit multi-level marketing. :)
[16:50] <tjagoda> SJPhone is not multi level?
[16:51] <snap-l> tjagoda: When your website has news reviews, that's a HUGE red-flag for me
[16:52] <tjagoda> Only other recommendation is X-Lite
[16:52] <tjagoda> I think SJPhone is in business with MagicJack
[17:04] <snap-l> http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#My_Ekiga_account_doesn.27t_work.
[18:07] <snap-l> I think I've bought more CDs in the past 2 months than I have in the past year
[18:13] <wolfger> you've bought CD's?
[18:14] <wolfger> do they still make CD's?
[18:14] <snap-l> Yes, yes they do
[18:14] <wolfger> everything now is MP3
[18:15] <wolfger> so that the studios can ream you for something that costs them virtually nothing, and you don't even get to own anything after you pay them
[18:17] <wolfger> Hmm. I think I need to have a sit-down with some auto execs. I have a new business model for them. "Instead of buying a vehicle, you're buying the rights to use a vehicle. Those rights are non-transferable, so if you want to drive a new vehicle, you will have to acquire new rights, and you cannot resell the old rights to somebody else."
[18:17] <wolfger> It's like Lease++
[18:17] <wolfger> except really Lease-- for the consumer
[18:18] <wolfger> since they will have to pay the full license price
[18:19] <Milyardo> You forgot the part of the lease where they arbitrarily define use and change the terms later
[18:19] <wolfger> alternatively, maybe I could talk some music execs into the idea of leasing music
[18:20] <Milyardo> "What's that you used public transport? Lease Terminated."
[18:20] <wolfger> you pay per month per song until you no longer like the song, at which point you can buy out the remainder of your lease while we talk you into leasing a new song.
[18:21] <wolfger> there's business models to be exploited here...
[18:21] <wolfger> and people are getting used to not owning anything. That's the scary part. We're willingly returning to the feudal system, where only the rich and powerful actually own anything
[18:24] <snap-l> Sorry, but MP3s don't sound as good as CDs
[18:24] <snap-l> And don't get me started on the vinyl folks. :)
[18:24] <wolfger> and CD's don't sound as good as vinyl
[18:24] <wolfger> oops. too late
[18:24] <Milyardo> FLAC ftw?
[18:25] <snap-l> "Yeah, I'm sure my CDs sound like shit compared to your vinyl on a crosley POS turn table that sounds like you're dragging a blckboard along the record"
[18:26] <wolfger> honestly, I can't tell the diff between a good MP3 and a CD. Except the MP3 never gets scratched
[18:26] <snap-l> wolfger: I accept your challenge. :)
[18:26] <wolfger> and CD sounds better than vinyl, until they both get scratched, at which point you can still play the vinyl with a penny weighing down the needle, but the CD is hosed.
[18:27] <snap-l> wolfger: Um, no
[18:27] <snap-l> Vinyl gets pops and clicks
[18:27] <snap-l> Cds get minor drop-outs
[18:27] <snap-l> (that is, if you have good equipment)
[18:27] <wolfger> CD's get "disc not found"
[18:28] <snap-l> Maybe if you didn't play shuffleboard with your CDs, this wouldn't be a problem.
[18:28] <wolfger> Yes, well, I keep threatening to beat Allison for not putting CDs back in the case, but threats are not working.
[18:29] <snap-l> Seriously, if you mistreated your vinyl like folks mistreat CDs, you'd never be able to play anything on it
[18:29] <wolfger> possibly
[18:29] <wolfger> but my point is: MP3 uber alles
[18:30] <snap-l> For the walkman crowd, yes.
[18:30] <snap-l> for the folks that listen to music, not quite. ;)
[18:30] <snap-l> FLAC FTW
[18:30] <wolfger> for any crowd
[18:30] <wolfger> FLAC, MP3, same thing
[18:30] <wolfger> non-physical media FTW
[18:30] <snap-l> OMG, you did NOT say that. :)
[18:31] <wolfger> ROFL
[18:31] <wolfger> you bet your seatbelt I did.
[18:33] <wolfger> I think I need to write Mythbusters a suggestion
[18:33] <wolfger> and have them test the various music myths audiophiles dream up
[18:34]  * snap-l is going to give you a test. ;)
[18:39] <wolfger> is it multiple choice?
[18:39] <krondor> that's a good mythbusters
[18:40] <wolfger> krondor: they would get so many e-mails from people complaining about the results
[18:42] <krondor> why did you use the x it has a y? Everyone knows that you'll get the best sound from c but only in a clean room inside a vacuum on the solstice!
[18:42] <wolfger> heh
[18:43] <wolfger> They will say something sounded better than something else, and a bunch of people who all listened to it via their TV speaker(s) will say "those both sounded exactly the same!"
[18:44] <snap-l> OK, I'm uploading two versions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Springtime
[18:44] <snap-l> Both came from a FLAC source, but one was mp3 encoded (VBR, quality 0)
[18:44] <snap-l> same as what I use with Lococast.
[18:45] <snap-l> both files were then turned back into wav files
[18:45] <snap-l> I want you to tell me which file sounds better.
[18:45] <wolfger> ...and if we get that on Mythbusters, maybe we can get Adam to sneak Jonothan Coultan's "Re: Your brains" into the show... XD
[18:46] <wolfger> snap-l: OK, but it will have to wait til I get off work
[18:47] <snap-l> no problem. I'll leave them up for as long as you want
[18:49] <jrwren> snap-l: not everyone has your ears.
[18:49] <jrwren> and lame V0 is VERY close to FLAC for most peoples ears.
[18:49] <snap-l> I know. :)
[18:50] <jrwren> but I've done the blind listening test and guessed FLAC over V0 :)
[18:50] <jrwren> it was not easy though.
[18:50] <snap-l> Yeah, there's subtleties
[18:50] <jrwren> i had to relisten and seek back to the parts I thought i heard quality degredation
[18:50] <jrwren> if it was just a short cilp and I could not seek, i'd not have been able to make a judgement
[18:51] <Milyardo> jrwren: Just means your volume isn't high enough
[18:51] <Milyardo> Vivaldi is worthy of only max volume imo
[18:53] <greg-g> snap-l: where are these files?
[18:53] <snap-l> Uploading
[18:53] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ss7/ <- Sample 1
[18:54] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ssC/ <- Sample 2
[18:54] <snap-l> (still uploading 2)
[19:03] <snap-l> OK, it's uploaded
[19:15] <jrwren> no, it doesn't mean my volume isn't high enough.
[19:15] <jrwren> and the point is??? FLAC > lame v0 ?  I alread know this, I don't need to take this test :)
[19:16] <wolfger> the test is for me, jrwren
[19:16] <wolfger> because I said they were the same thing
[19:16] <snap-l> right
[19:17] <jrwren> right.
[19:17] <wolfger> although I don't know what this V0 crap is....
[19:17] <snap-l> Highest quality lame
[19:17] <wolfger> ah
[19:17] <snap-l> Variable Bit Rate, quality level 0 (best quality)
[19:19] <wolfger> where I come from, "quality level 0" means no quality :-p
[19:20] <snap-l> Yeah, it's backwards
[19:21] <wolfger> need new foam hands for the big game... "We're #0!"
[19:23] <wolfger> Epic FAIL. I just got a work e-mail with a link to an intranet site.
[19:24] <wolfger> I tried to access it 3 times, and got 3 *different* 500 errors
[19:24] <rick_h__> ok, this doesn't give me faith in how LP is put together: http://blog.launchpad.net/performance/launchpad-answers-is-faster
[19:25] <wolfger> aren't they scrapping that in favor of AskUbuntu anyway?
[19:25] <wolfger> :-p
[19:29] <jrwren> http://www.whatinterviewprep.com/preparefortheinterview.html   and  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lame#Recommended_encoder_settings
[19:30] <jrwren> I like "Audible differences between these presets exist, but are rare. "  WRT V0-V3  I can tell big diff between V0 and V2 even
[19:38] <rick_h__> hah, man Canonical just gets things fired up: http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=296
[19:39] <greg-g> rick_h__: wow! (re: the LP answers email thing)
[19:40] <rick_h__> greg-g: it seems a pretty basic 101 "we're building a big service" kind of thing doesn't it?
[19:40] <rick_h__> I mean, how many years has that been going on and no one noticed?
[19:42] <greg-g> no kidding
[19:42] <greg-g> I mean, *I* even know that. Queue up email sending.
[19:50] <snap-l> apparently I need to get some ant traps
[19:55] <snap-l> There's a web cast at work, and someone is standing right in front of the camera
[19:55] <snap-l> I think he's talking to the camera-operator
[19:56] <ColonelPanic001> brilliant
[19:57] <snap-l> Heh, this is brillant
[20:25] <krondor> so much for playing with the playbook, someone already nabbed it.  I expect it will make it's way back to me in a few weeks.
[20:40] <binbrain> http://cnj.craigslist.org/web/2308566632.html
[20:40] <binbrain> any takers?
[20:41] <jrwren> rofl.
[20:41] <rick_h__> sweet
[20:41] <rick_h__> but I don't know if I'm professional enough
[20:42] <jrwren> i'm so professional that I don't work for chump changes.
[20:50] <snap-l> I'm seeing HP really trying like hell to make WebOS fly
[20:51] <snap-l> That makes me happy
[20:51] <snap-l> We need a third player that isn't Microsoft. ;)
[20:54] <rick_h__> come on december
[20:55] <rick_h__> though I think at this point it wouldn't be a webos phone, too bought into my google/android happiness
[20:59] <snap-l> Yeah, there's a lot of lead in Android / iOS
[22:21] <snap-l> We need more Cory Doctorows in this world
[22:21] <snap-l> people who can eloquently explain why DRM and trusted computing are not good for consumers
[22:22] <snap-l> http://www.miroguide.com/items/4037324
[22:26] <jrwren> and do nothing about it? ;)
[22:26] <snap-l> That's kinda harsh. :)


[10:06] <pester> smoser: hi, are you here ?
[10:07] <pester> regarding this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1712851
[10:07] <pester> I`m currently have this environment and can do tests if anyone interested in debugging this
[16:20] <smoser> blackboxsw, _maybe_remove_legacy_eth0
[16:47] <blackboxsw> larsks: tests/unittests/test_handler/test_schema.py
[18:05] <smoser> powersj, https://code.launchpad.net/~rjschwei/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/329616
[18:05] <smoser> why didn't ci bot run on that ?
[18:05] <powersj> I do not know, looking atm
[18:05] <powersj> smoser: ^
[18:10] <powersj> "DEBUG: Users "rjschwei" not allowed to trigger jobs"
[18:10] <powersj> I need to add him to the white list, but I thought anyone who has signed the CLA was on it.
[18:13] <powersj> I can't get onto the VPN right now, keeps timing out, so I can launch it manually
[18:16] <smoser> powersj, he's not signed the cla himself. suse has
[18:17] <smoser> so that would be it.
[18:17] <powersj> ahh! ok at least we can explain it
[21:55] <smoser> rharper, https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/329122
[21:55] <smoser> Currently the python logging module will default to a local time which may contain an TZ offset in the values it produces. Switching to UTC time for logging produces consistent values in the cloud-init.log file and avoids issues when the timezone is changed during boot.
[21:56] <smoser> nevermind. i'll update that to mention that logging did not get a timezone.
[22:19] <smoser> blackboxsw, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsks/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/329620
[22:19] <smoser> can you review that ? did that look fine to you ?
[22:50] <blackboxsw> smoser: yeah this is the branch larsks is working currently to add a unit test around this behavior (but he hit the httppretty issue before pushing the commit)