[12:04] <thompa> UFO: http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/ it will run on kubuntu i think
[12:05] <thompa> !dvd
[12:05] <ubotu> I guess dvd is DVDs may require libdvdcss2, which is available at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[12:05] <UFO> thompa: the site is down... have to see later... i thin i know what you are meaning... abit more eye candy :)
[12:06] <thompa> UFO: its at freedesktop.org, link is not down just busy
[12:07] <thompa> its the movie cube thingy http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/img/movie-cube.jpg
[12:07] <wasp_ems> how can i access the network i am in so i can access other peoples files?
[12:08] <thompa> !mplayer
[12:08] <ubotu> rumour has it, mplayer is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MplayerInstallHowto  For compiling, see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=31061
[12:08] <blarion> How do you install flash for Konqueror?
[12:09] <thompa> !flash
[12:09] <ubotu> I heard restricted is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats  Most of the formats listed here can be replaced by !FreeFormats
[12:09] <wasp_ems> how can i make a shortcut on my desktop of my network?
[12:10] <UFO> thompa: looks very interesting, but i got ati which they report to have problem with :(
[12:11] <Red_Herring> heh, im very immature
[12:11] <Red_Herring> i made a command called woman
[12:11] <Red_Herring> so man woman says:
[12:11] <Red_Herring> No manual entry for woman
[12:11] <Red_Herring> See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available.
[12:12] <Red_Herring> :-P
[12:12] <UFO> :)
[12:12] <Red_Herring> making commands is so fun :-D
[12:12] <UFO> If you find a manual for woman so could you send it to me?
[12:13] <Red_Herring> sure thing ;-)
[12:13] <thompa> is anyone using automatix?
[12:13] <Red_Herring> thompa, nooooooooooo, dont use it!
[12:13] <Red_Herring> its bad!
[12:13] <thompa> thanks
[12:13] <wasp_ems> can anyone help me on how i can access my network??????
[12:13] <thompa> i tried it
[12:13] <hyperactivecrond> wasp_ems: dhcp?
[12:13] <thompa> it did some weird shit
[12:13] <kkathman> thompa try EasyUbuntu instead
[12:13] <Red_Herring> UFO, i was thinking we should make a package called therapy, that has commands like "Crap" and "DAMN KUBUNTU" so that they respond to it
[12:13] <wasp_ems> hyperactivecrond: whas is that?
[12:14] <thompa> last i checked easyubuntu was gone
[12:14] <hyperactivecrond> wasp_ems: type sudo dhclient eth0 @ a shell prompt
[12:14] <Red_Herring> just link it to fortune
[12:14] <thompa> ill just do it all by hand (restricted formats)
[12:14] <Red_Herring> !seveas
[12:14] <ubotu> Seveas has a semi-popular 3rd party repository for several packages. More info (and mirrors) on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[12:14] <Red_Herring> thompa, use that ^
[12:15] <thompa> !dvd
[12:15] <ubotu> hmm... dvd is DVDs may require libdvdcss2, which is available at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[12:15] <Red_Herring> see, seveas
[12:15] <hyperactivecrond> !tell thompa about msgthebot
[12:15] <thompa> i got it, thanks
[12:15] <hyperactivecrond> !msgthebot
[12:15] <hyperactivecrond> ah
[12:15] <ubotu> Please message the bot (me) in private, more info about the bot: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
[12:15] <dcwckd> has anyone  used helix-player on kubuntu
[12:15] <dcwckd> !dvd
[12:15] <ubotu> well, dvd is DVDs may require libdvdcss2, which is available at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[12:16] <thompa> i gotta go, thanks guys!
[12:16] <hyperactivecrond> !tell dcwckd about msgthebot
[12:16] <wasp_ems> hyperactivecrond: No working leases in persistent database - sleeping. this comes up
[12:16] <hyperactivecrond> :\
[12:17] <Red_Herring> ooo, oo, kubuntu should have a command called "basic-human-interaction" because that would be a very handy tool for the people who use it
[12:17] <Red_Herring> :-P
[12:17] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, why are you using helix-player?
[12:18] <dcwckd> I want to for DVDs
[12:18] <Red_Herring> !ogle
[12:18] <ubotu> Red_Herring: Huh? Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[12:18] <dcwckd> kaffeine nor VLC, play menus right for me
[12:18] <Red_Herring> try ogle or okle
[12:18] <Red_Herring> okle
[12:18] <Red_Herring> !okle
[12:18] <ubotu> Red_Herring: NO SPEAKE ENLISH! Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[12:18] <Red_Herring> if you have dvd-css installed, okle works great
[12:19] <arrinmurr> vlc and kaffeine should work just fine too. works here anyway
[12:19] <dcwckd> wait
[12:19] <dcwckd> kaffeine with xine works nice
[12:19] <dcwckd> gstreamer
[12:19] <dcwckd> no go
[12:19] <Red_Herring> well
[12:19] <Red_Herring> gstreamer is still very developmental
[12:19] <Red_Herring> i dont like it
[12:19] <Red_Herring> but apparently .10 is great
[12:19] <Red_Herring> so we will see...
[12:19] <Tallia1Kubuntu> hola
[12:19] <Red_Herring> hi Tallia1Kubuntu
[12:20] <dcwckd> whats okle?
[12:20] <Red_Herring> did you catch my suggestions for extra terminal commands with dapper?
[12:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> which program is the best in linux for sound analisys/manipulation?
[12:20] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, it is a kde dvd player
[12:20] <Red_Herring> Tallia1Kubuntu, audacity
[12:20] <dcwckd> apt-get install okle?
[12:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i am using audacity  but it seems its analisys part is not very well done
[12:20] <Red_Herring> !audacity
[12:20] <ubotu> I haven't a clue, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Red_Herring
[12:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> :)
[12:20] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, sure, go ahead
[12:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i mean, the analisys consider only a spectrum and a spectrogram
[12:21] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, you *do* have libdvdcss installed.. right?
[12:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i'd like to see the things i saw in AMADEUS
[12:21] <Red_Herring> awe man
[12:21] <Red_Herring> amadeus?
[12:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> yes
[12:21] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, what happened?
[12:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> it is for MAC and i think for windows
[12:21] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, you *do* have libdvdcss installed.. right?
[12:21] <Red_Herring> try it with wine?
[12:21] <dcwckd> yup
[12:21] <dcwckd> trying okle now
[12:21] <Red_Herring> nice
[12:22] <dcwckd> brb
[12:22] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: what version of audacity did you use?
[12:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> the last in reps
[12:23] <wasp_ems> can someone help me with wine?
[12:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i tried to install the 1.3
[12:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> but i had VERY hard time in installing GTK and glib
[12:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> expecially the last
[12:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> :(
[12:24] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, that is a very delicate thing
[12:24] <Tallia1Kubuntu> latter*
[12:24] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: i want to run an application from windows..i installed it but i dont know how to open the file i want
[12:25] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, well
[12:25] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: hmm.. 1.3 works fine here
[12:25] <Red_Herring> usially double clicking will work
[12:25] <dcwckd> red
[12:25] <Red_Herring> but you can just open the terminal
[12:25] <subdiv> trying to install Breezy  on an iMac and getting strange errors
[12:25] <dcwckd> what kind of machien do I need to run a DVD
[12:25] <Red_Herring> cd to the folder
[12:25] <dcwckd> cause its playback is all choppy
[12:25] <subdiv> using the ppc iso
[12:25] <Red_Herring> !dma
[12:25] <dcwckd> !dma
[12:25] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: are you in kubuntu?
[12:25] <Red_Herring> yeah
[12:25] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: thanx allot!
[12:25] <dcwckd> i thought I enabled DMA
[12:25] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: did you compied audacity?
[12:26] <dcwckd> how can I check
[12:26] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: yes and no
[12:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: ?
[12:26] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, it worked?
[12:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> oooo
[12:26] <dcwckd> !dma
[12:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: how is it possible that you didn't compiled??
[12:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: the last version is not in reps
[12:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: where did you get the deb package?
[12:26] <subdiv> error is elf/e_ident/e_type/e_machineinfo
[12:27] <subdiv> absolute nOOb
[12:27] <subdiv> I am
[12:27] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=108298
[12:27] <dcwckd> red
[12:27] <dcwckd> how do I check which dev is my dvd drive
[12:28] <Red_Herring> well
[12:28] <Red_Herring> it usually is just /dev/dvd
[12:28] <Red_Herring> try hdparm /dev/dvd
[12:28] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: no nothing happened:(
[12:28] <Red_Herring> and see if dma is 0 or 1
[12:28] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: TNX!!
[12:28] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, open up the terminal
[12:28] <Red_Herring> cd into that directory
[12:28] <Red_Herring> and type in wine <filename>,exe
[12:28] <Red_Herring> thats a . not a ,
[12:29] <UFO> ib downloading the 32bit version of kubuntu and hoping resolvs my problems
[12:30] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, any luck?
[12:30] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: it says no such file or directory
[12:30] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, well cd to the folder is where the exe file is
[12:31] <dcwckd> red
[12:31] <dcwckd> got it going
[12:31] <dcwckd> thanks
[12:31] <Red_Herring> no problem
[12:31] <dcwckd> i though hdparm was permanent
[12:31] <dcwckd> !dma
[12:32] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: this is what came up:
[12:32] <wasp_ems> err:module:import_dll Library pdh.dll (which is needed by L"Z:\\media\\hda3\\Program Files\\VoipBuster.com\\VoipBuster\\VoipBuster.exe") not found
[12:32] <wasp_ems> err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"Z:\\media\\hda3\\Program Files\\VoipBuster.com\\VoipBuster\\VoipBuster.exe" failed, status c0000135
[12:33] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, have you tried "winecfg"
[12:33] <Red_Herring> and gone through that?
[12:33] <wasp_ems> no
[12:33] <Red_Herring> try it
[12:33] <Nomad411> If I want to remove all packages that were installed from repos cipherfunk, can I?
[12:34] <Nomad411> I mean, can I tell them apart
[12:34] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: i dont see what i have to do in there
[12:34] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, decide which verison of windows it will emulate
[12:34] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: ok then?
[12:34] <Red_Herring> well...
[12:34] <Red_Herring> then hit ok
[12:35] <wasp_ems> thanx
[12:35] <monteiro> i've a logitech webcam, the driver loads but when i open xawtv the system crashes , anyone has knows how to solve this problem ?
[12:35] <Red_Herring> anything change?
[12:35] <Red_Herring> if not, then i would suggest adding the official wine repos
[12:35] <Red_Herring> !wine
[12:36] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: the same thing happened
[12:37] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, type in !wine
[12:37] <Red_Herring> then add that deb line to to sources.list
[12:37] <Red_Herring> then update it
[12:37] <subdiv> can anyone help me?
[12:37] <Red_Herring> that solved many problems for me
[12:37] <Red_Herring> subdiv, that depends
[12:37] <subdiv> it's this wierd error on my iMac
[12:37] <subdiv> elf/e_ident/e_type/e_machineinfo
[12:37] <Red_Herring> huh
[12:38] <Red_Herring> i just put it on my imac
[12:38] <Red_Herring> g3?
[12:38] <Red_Herring> or g4
[12:38] <subdiv> g3
[12:38] <Red_Herring> the error was elf/e_ident...
[12:38] <Red_Herring> ?
[12:38] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: when i  type !wine is tells me wine voipBuster.exe cannot find it
[12:38] <subdiv> when the kernel loads
[12:38] <Tallia1Kubuntu> anyone here know where i can find the last version of KINO?
[12:38] <dcwckd> red
[12:39] <dcwckd> can I ask you something
[12:39] <Red_Herring> wasp_ems, in this chatroom, type in "!wine"
[12:39] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i have the same problem that i had with audacity.. i can't compile last gtk
[12:39] <wasp_ems> aaa ok
[12:39] <Red_Herring> ubotu will tell you about wine
[12:39] <ubotu> Syntax error in line 1. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Red_Herring
[12:39] <wasp_ems> :)
[12:39] <wasp_ems> !wine
[12:39] <dcwckd> red, is there anyway to remove gstreamer
[12:39] <Red_Herring> :-)
[12:39] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, why remove it?
[12:39] <dcwckd> and all of its plugins
[12:39] <dcwckd> I dont want it
[12:39] <Tallia1Kubuntu> anyone here know where i can find the last version of KINO?
[12:39] <Red_Herring> just change all the engines to xine
[12:39] <dcwckd> cause I installed like 50 gstreamer plugins
[12:39] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, the thing is, they do no harm being installed
[12:39] <Nomad411> same here
[12:39] <Tallia1Kubuntu> anyone here know where i can find the last version of KINO in a deb package outside of repositories?
[12:39] <dcwckd> I dont need them to update when I run a dist-upgrade
[12:40] <Red_Herring> and even if you dont want them
[12:40] <Red_Herring> its worth keeping them
[12:40] <subdiv> elf/e_ident/e_type/e_machineinfo. Anyone knows what this means?
[12:40] <Nomad411> I find that once I setup teh cipher repo and update from there my machine gets flaky
[12:40] <Nomad411> I'm removing them all now and sticking to official
[12:40] <dcwckd> red, they do no harm
[12:40] <Red_Herring> subdiv, what was going on when this error occured?
[12:40] <dcwckd> and they dont tie up resources?
[12:40] <Red_Herring> nah
[12:40] <Red_Herring> only if you have a media player running it
[12:41] <Red_Herring> but kaffiene and all of those already have xine versions of them
[12:41] <Red_Herring> so that shouldn be an issue
[12:41] <subdiv> trying to install kubuntu on my iMac. Type install at yaboot, it says "Loading the kernel", then it happens.
[12:41] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: kino 0.8 is in backports, isn't it?
[12:41] <dcwckd> red
[12:41] <Red_Herring> listening
[12:41] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: :D how can i get it?
[12:41] <subdiv> this iMac is the only computer I care to install Kubuntu on.
[12:42] <dcwckd> how can I view current system processes?
[12:42] <Red_Herring> but if you hit tab after red, it auto fills in my name
[12:42] <arrinmurr> !backports
[12:42] <ubotu> backports is, like, Add "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy-backports main universe multiverse restricted" (without the ") to /etc/apt/sources.list.  More info @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
[12:42] <Red_Herring> subdiv, sorry, never had something like that go on
[12:43] <dcwckd> red, is there a way to view current system resources
[12:43] <subdiv> iMac G3, 233 MHZ
[12:43] <Red_Herring> wow
[12:43] <Red_Herring> and you want kubunu on it?
[12:43] <subdiv> maybe
[12:43] <Red_Herring> dcwckd, cat /proc/meminfo
[12:43] <Red_Herring> will tell you how much ram is used
[12:43] <dcwckd> i want more along the lines
[12:44] <dcwckd> of whats running
[12:44] <Red_Herring> and ps -el will tel you all the processes
[12:44] <subdiv> i don't care to install it on my brand new iBook G4
[12:44] <subdiv> because I could frag the OSX to eternity
[12:44] <Red_Herring> subdiv, good luck getting kde on something with 233mhz
[12:44] <subdiv> is there a dual booting manual
[12:44] <Red_Herring> i would stick to something lighter
[12:44] <Red_Herring> !mac
[12:44] <ubotu> parse error: Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Red_Herring
[12:44] <Red_Herring> !imac
[12:44] <ubotu> Red_Herring: I give up. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[12:45] <Red_Herring> useless ubotu
[12:45] <subdiv> I could use my iBook, if I didn't destroy everything.
[12:45] <subdiv> 1.3 GHZ
[12:47] <Tallia1Kubuntu> Red_Herring: Once i insert backports inside sources.list is it safe to do upgrade all?
[12:48] <Red_Herring> Tallia1Kubuntu, sure
[12:48] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: i messed it up...how can i remove it from the source list??
[12:48] <wasp_ems> Red_Herring: i added it in the reprosities but something went wrong
[12:48] <Tallia1Kubuntu> with safe i mean, i will not have BIG troubles
[12:49] <Tallia1Kubuntu> wasp_ems: sudo kwrite /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:49] <Tallia1Kubuntu> wasp_ems: and then remove by hand the line
[12:49] <Red_Herring> just add a # in front of it
[12:49] <wasp_ems> thanx
[12:49] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: um, i don't reckon so.  I only use backports for installs and disable them for (dist-)upgrades
[12:49] <Red_Herring> well
[12:50] <Tallia1Kubuntu> reckon?
[12:50] <bimberi> think
[12:50] <arrinmurr> i haven't had any problems with backports. and it doesn't include anything that critical anyway
[12:50] <bimberi> ...that it is safe
[12:51] <Tallia1Kubuntu> bimberi: so i can do (normal)-upgrades without problems?
[12:51] <Tallia1Kubuntu> what does it change between normal and DIST upgrade?
[12:52] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: i couldn't guarantee that - even with the official non-backport repos :)
[12:52] <ClayG> anything like winzip for ubuntu?
[12:52] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: dist-upgrade will install new packages and remove others if the dependencies of existing packages change
[12:52] <Snake__> ClayG uhhh ark isnt it?
[12:53] <Tallia1Kubuntu> arrinmurr: wasn't kino 0.8 able to import avi and mpeg? it keep saying me FAIL IMPORT..
[12:53] <_lengau> Ark for Kubuntu, file-roller for Ubuntu
[12:53] <ClayG> hm says zip isnot in my path
[12:53] <Snake__> ah
[12:53] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ClayG: ark
[12:53] <ClayG> but i just installed it
[12:53] <ClayG> weird
[12:53] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ClayG: zip package too :)
[12:53] <ClayG> i have it
[12:53] <Tallia1Kubuntu> mhh..... boh
[12:54] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: btw i meant any type of upgrade earlier
[12:54] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ?
[12:55] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: hmm.. don't know really. i've never used it myself. however, there's some discussion about the backport http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=624599
[12:55] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: ok, I only use backports for installs and disable them for upgrades and dist-upgrades :)
[12:57] <arrinmurr> Tallia1Kubuntu: and there https://launchpad.net/products/breezy-backports/+bug/6231
[01:02] <mauricio> hello
[01:03] <mauricio> new to kubuntu... just to say hello
[01:03] <Tallia1Kubuntu> hello ^__^
[01:03] <mauricio> new to irc too, so hello again, tallia1
[01:05] <lengau_> Hi Mauricio
[01:05] <mauricio> don't embarass me, please :P
[01:05] <coolio10> hi everyone
[01:06] <wasp_ems> one last question before i go..as i cannot make wine work and there is plenty to read can someone tell me how to access my network??because for some reason i cannot
[01:06] <wasp_ems> fuck it
[01:06] <wasp_ems> its ok i fixed it
[01:06] <lengau_> Do any of you guys know the exact process of a package into Kubuntu? It it just after enough requests/after someone submits it or is there moer than that?
[01:07] <lengau_> Hi coolio
[01:07] <kkathman> lengau_: best thing to do is to query a dev to see if you package is in the respos or in Debian... if so, then request to Riddell or Hobbsee or robotgeek
[01:08] <Hobbsee> hmmm?  lol
[01:08] <Hobbsee> there's a whole list of places it can be in - see wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide i think
[01:08] <lengau_> Okay. So if I'm considering submitting a package, how exactly do I go about it?
[01:08] <lengau_> ahh. thanks. THat's what i was looking for.
[01:09] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:09] <Hobbsee> what package, by the way?
[01:09] <Hobbsee> and i think you have a grand total of 8 days before feature freeze
[01:10] <Tallia1Kubuntu> if two application with the same name are in the path, how can i know which is executed?
[01:11] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: which <command>
[01:11] <Tallia1Kubuntu> furthermore, is there a way to understand the location of the binary, given the name?
[01:11] <Tallia1Kubuntu> bimberi: TNX :)
[01:11] <bimberi> Tallia1Kubuntu: dpkg -L <package> | grep bin     (is sometimes useful too) :)
[01:11] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ehhe i know that!
[01:11] <Tallia1Kubuntu> to know the content of a package :P
[01:12] <bimberi> :)
[01:12] <lengau_> Hobbsee - Just a couple of things that I miss from Gentoo -- Actually I'm probably just going to grab the source from a Gentoo mirror.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> lengau_: yeah, but what are they?
[01:13] <Red_Herring> i dont like gentoo
[01:13] <Red_Herring> personally
[01:13] <Red_Herring> just way too much work just to get it to be functional
[01:13] <Hobbsee|away> yeah, but any good bits from there we may well want to implement
[01:14] <brydenn> Hobbsee... you ever do anything else?
[01:14] <Hobbsee|away> what do they have in the way of wireless management hehe?
[01:14] <brydenn> haha i see you on here ALL the time lol
[01:14] <lengau_> Y-windows (although I probably won't submit, pre-alpha yada yada, but I'll want to post it somewhere) etc. I'm jsut going thru portage to see what else (bad memory)
[01:14] <Hobbsee|away> brydenn: in regards to what?  oh, being here?  yeah, sometimes you know...
[01:14] <coolio10> anyone know if there has been a fix for storage media?(missing icons)
[01:14] <Hobbsee|away> i'm going out later today, i think
[01:14] <lengau_> Red_Herring: I agree. And you have to maintain it about every day. That;s why I switched over.
[01:15] <Tallia1Kubuntu> how much speed do i gain compiling the kernel instead of using an image?
[01:15] <Tallia1Kubuntu> is there a memory gain too?
[01:15] <Red_Herring> some
[01:15] <Red_Herring> not much
[01:15] <lengau_> None to me.
[01:15] <bimberi> Hobbsee|away: to collect your mail? :P
[01:15] <Tallia1Kubuntu> lengau_: :)
[01:15] <Tallia1Kubuntu> Red_Herring: is a complicate operation to do?
[01:15] <lengau_> not really
[01:16] <Red_Herring> no
[01:16] <Red_Herring> !kernel-compilation
[01:16] <ubotu> No idea, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Red_Herring
[01:16] <Red_Herring> !kernel
[01:16] <Hobbsee|away> bimberi: no, to pick up some textbooks - no one ever sends me anything by snail mail...
[01:16] <bimberi> Hobbsee|away: kk :)
[01:16] <Hobbsee|away> hehe
[01:16] <lengau_> I personally think that Kubuntu boots faster than my Gentoo install ever did, but that might be just the way I compiled *NOT A KERNEL DEVELOPER RIGHT HERE!*
[01:17] <Red_Herring> well
[01:17] <Red_Herring> gentoo booted much faster
[01:17] <Red_Herring> but then again
[01:17] <coolio10> guess knowone knows my question
[01:17] <mauricio> oh, welll ... going to sleep now
[01:17] <Red_Herring> i disabled many things i dont need
[01:17] <visik7> lengau_: gentoo with init-ng boot in 10 seconds
[01:17] <mauricio> nice dreams to everybody
[01:17] <visik7> bios included
[01:17] <charwood> I'm getting an error installd libgtk2.0-bin:  http://pastebin.com/555231
[01:17] <lengau_> cool - didn't know that.
[01:18] <charwood> Seems like a the package has missing dependencies?
[01:18] <lengau_> What's the rule on submitting shell scripts?
[01:18] <Tallia1Kubuntu> !kernel
[01:18] <Red_Herring> charwood, build-essential?
[01:18] <Hobbsee|away> shell scripts?
[01:18] <visik7> charwood: install the package that has that file
[01:18] <coolio10> fo you have adept or any package manager open?
[01:18] <lengau_> I really miss Superadduser.
[01:19] <coolio10> if u have any open close them
[01:19] <charwood> Red_Herring: It would seem that it is not part of build-essential
[01:19] <charwood> visik7: I have installed the package that has that file.  It's part of scratchbox.
[01:19] <Red_Herring> oh well...
[01:19] <Tallia1Kubuntu> lengau_: what do i have to set in the kernel?
[01:19] <visik7> charwood: but are u using dapper ?
[01:19] <lengau_> for what?
[01:19] <lengau_> In Gentoo, you mean?
[01:19] <visik7> 'couse here is libxfixes3
[01:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> lengau_: how much time does it take to set up all i need?
[01:20] <charwood> visik7: Yes.  Dapper.    Tallia can touch his tongue!
[01:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> lengau_: i will follow your suggestion
[01:22] <Tallia1Kubuntu> why do you need to use gentoo?
[01:22] <Red_Herring> i dont
[01:22] <lengau_> Who here uses Klamav?
[01:22] <charwood> I added deb http://scratchbox.org/debian to my sources.list.  libgtk2.0-bin is a required package for scratchbox.  Scratchbox installed mostly find but libgtk2.0 breaks.
[01:22] <visik7> what news client I have to use in kubuntu ?
[01:22] <Red_Herring> i just never bothered to compile one for kubuntu
[01:22] <Red_Herring> whereas it is mandatory for gentoo
[01:22] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i see
[01:22] <dcwckd> red
[01:22] <dcwckd> okle rocks
[01:22] <Red_Herring> yeah
[01:22] <Tallia1Kubuntu> but in general, why do you have gentoo installed?
[01:23] <Red_Herring> i watched all 4 seasons of Futurama on it
[01:23] <Red_Herring> Tallia1Kubuntu, the speed!
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> really?
[01:23] <Red_Herring> its incredebly fast
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> is it so good?
[01:23] <Red_Herring> no
[01:23] <Red_Herring> its nice
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ahah :)
[01:23] <Red_Herring> but in terms of time/performance
[01:23] <Red_Herring> it fails badly
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ??
[01:23] <Red_Herring> because it takes soooooooo long to get working
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> oooo ahha
[01:23] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i see
[01:23] <Red_Herring> and it took me 15 minutes toninstall Firefox
[01:24] <B1zz> never could get Gentoo to install :-p
[01:24] <Red_Herring> B1zz, dont worry, it doesnt make you any less of a nerd if you cant install it
[01:24] <Red_Herring> :-)
[01:24] <blt> I am currently using Kubuntu, dapper release. I upgraded from Breezy, using Ubuntu. I have been unable to get sound working, though my sound modules are loaded, arts is configured to use alsa, and nothing is muted. I am surely missing something and would appreciate if someone could walk me through the steps of getting sound so that I can see where I've messed up. Baring that, could someone ask me common gottcha questions that relate to sound. I use an ibook G4.
[01:25] <B1zz> hehe, but thats what im going for :-p
[01:25] <B1zz> super nerd
[01:25] <Red_Herring> hey
[01:25] <Red_Herring> well you got some competition
[01:25] <B1zz> heheh
[01:25] <coolio10> #Red_Herring what systems do you have?
[01:25] <Red_Herring> blt, do you have the modules loaded?
[01:25] <Red_Herring> coolio10, what do you mean?
[01:25] <Tallia1Kubuntu> is there a place where to see if firefox plugins work?
[01:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i should have gstreamer acrobat and shockwave by now
[01:26] <coolio10> #Red_Herring do you dualboot?
[01:26] <Red_Herring> i have 1 debian, 1gentoo/kubuntu/winblows, 1 kubuntu
[01:26] <visik7> Tallia1Kubuntu: what plugin ?
[01:26] <blt> Red_Herring, yes I do. snd-powermac
[01:26] <Red_Herring> server desktop laptop
[01:26] <Tallia1Kubuntu> all three of them :)
[01:26] <B1zz> wow nice systems
[01:26] <Red_Herring> not really
[01:26] <Red_Herring> a celeron 1.5ghz on the laptop
[01:26] <Red_Herring> a 700mhz server
[01:26] <coolio10> #Red_Herring whats gentoo like? was thinking of trying it
[01:26] <mastermindless> gentoo is nice...i f*cking learned mch about linux with it
[01:27] <Red_Herring> coolio10, unless you got a 10 day break... dont bother
[01:27] <UFO> redisdead: but those are enough for the use
[01:27] <B1zz> i got 2 ubuntu and 1 Kubuntu, and 2 windowz 1 for gamin the other for sis's work
[01:27] <Tallia1Kubuntu> visik7: all of them
[01:27] <Red_Herring> blt, have you tried to see if it works under gnome?
[01:27] <Red_Herring> well... i also have a dsl laptop for my brother
[01:27] <coolio10> 2 ubuntu?
[01:28] <blt> coolio10, a good bash book and a bunch of HOWTOs will give you the same learning experience.
[01:28] <visik7> mastermindless: u learned much about gentoo
[01:28] <dcwckd> gentoo is hard to isntall
[01:28] <dcwckd> lol
[01:28] <visik7> not about linux
[01:28] <Red_Herring> but by installing gentoo you actually get an OS to show off
[01:28] <Red_Herring> instead of just plain old knowlage
[01:28] <hyperactivecrond> Ubuntu is an ancient african word that means "i'm sick of compiling Gentoo"
[01:28] <Red_Herring> no
[01:28] <visik7> ahahahaha
[01:28] <B1zz> hehehe
[01:28] <visik7> hyperactivecrond: I'll reuse it ahahaha
[01:28] <hyperactivecrond> i can't remember whom said that
[01:28] <Red_Herring> ubuntu is an african word meaning "I Cant configure debian"
[01:28] <blt> Red_Herring: Yes. Upon removing Gnome, however, the sound stopped working.
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> Red_Herring: then use debian.
[01:29] <Red_Herring> blt, removed it?!?!?
[01:29] <Red_Herring> hyperactivecrond, its a saying
[01:29] <Red_Herring> and a joke
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> ah
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> mo
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> mk
[01:29] <blt> Red_Herring: Yes. I didn't want Gnome. I prefer KDE.
[01:29] <Red_Herring> blt, well then the only logical thing to do is to install gnome again
[01:29] <mastermindless> visik7: thats true. but on the way to a stable gentoo i also learned much about linux. but myy debian installation were also very helpfull
[01:29] <mastermindless> :)
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> _1 blt
[01:29] <hyperactivecrond> +1
[01:29] <Red_Herring> did the sound work under kde when you had gnome installed?
[01:30] <lengau_> Doesn't it go "Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning 'I can't configure slackware'"?
[01:30] <Red_Herring> ok
[01:30] <Red_Herring> lets settle this
[01:30] <blt> Red_Herring: Yes, hence "Upon removing Gnome, however, the sound stopped working."
[01:30] <hyperactivecrond> heh... add this to the CC agenda
[01:30] <hyperactivecrond> lo
[01:30] <hyperactivecrond> l
[01:30] <hyperactivecrond> jk
[01:30] <Red_Herring> Ubuntu is an african word meaning "I cant configure any other distro so i installed this because they shipped it to me free"
[01:30] <visik7> lengau_: I can't resolve deps by hand
[01:30] <Red_Herring> blt, backtrack
[01:30] <Red_Herring> reinstall gnome
[01:31] <hyperactivecrond> Red_Herring: sounds negative 2 ubuntu
[01:31] <ClayG> anyone here use mambo or joomla?
[01:31] <Red_Herring> and just leave it, i mean, it only takes like 30mb
[01:31] <UFO> so all people are fighting now days of distros... before was only between linux and windows... huh
[01:31] <Red_Herring> hyperactivecrond, i know
[01:31] <lengau_> #visik7 You mean you should have to?
[01:31] <Red_Herring> dont get me wrong
[01:31] <hyperactivecrond> if this is true, there are supposed to be a lotta dummasses in #ubunt-  wait, nvm
[01:31] <Red_Herring> i happen to have 2kubuntu computers
[01:31] <blt> Red_Herring: No. That's a terrible hack.
[01:31] <Red_Herring> i love it
[01:31] <Red_Herring> blt, seriously
[01:31] <Red_Herring> i have gnome installed now
[01:31] <Red_Herring> i NEVER use it
[01:32] <troy> hey, the amarok1.4-beta packages claim to be dapper packages - but, has anyone tried to use them on breezy? is it just a matter of installation of new taglib from dapper?
[01:32] <Red_Herring> and its not a hack
[01:32] <Red_Herring> if doing X breaks something, why bother doing Y if undoing X works?
[01:32] <Red_Herring> hyperactivecrond, wow, sorry just read that, nice
[01:32] <hyperactivecrond> troy: klik it maybe?
[01:32] <blt> Red_Herring: Kubuntu shouldn't rely on having Gnome installed for basic things as sound.
[01:32] <hyperactivecrond> mean really... shouldn't have said that
[01:32] <B1zz> how do i get Dapper Repos?
[01:33] <B1zz> i would like amarok 1.4
[01:33] <troy> hyperactivecrond: doesn't work, amd64 - don't have the x86 libs required for the klik to work
[01:33] <Red_Herring> blt, well
[01:33] <Red_Herring> thats the thing
[01:33] <Red_Herring> it doesnt rely on it
[01:33] <hyperactivecrond> :\
[01:33] <UFO> can i update easy way to dapper with apt-get
[01:33] <hyperactivecrond> UFO: don't.
[01:33] <Red_Herring> but per chance, lets say a gnome package does something a kde package does
[01:33] <Red_Herring> for sound
[01:33] <lengau_> Speaking about dapper - what's the easiest way to upgrade (yes, I realise that it won't be released for two months, but I want to test it on my dev machine)
[01:33] <Red_Herring> and you install it
[01:33] <Red_Herring> it takes over kde's job
[01:34] <Red_Herring> but when you remove it, it doesnt do what its supposed to
[01:34] <blt> Red_Herring: Right, I understand that. In fact, that seems to be the problem entirely.
[01:34] <Red_Herring> and change the config files around so that the  kubuntu package contrils it now
[01:34] <Red_Herring> blt, i know sound arch has been a main issue with much of dapper
[01:35] <Red_Herring> so i suggest just "hacking" it for now until dapper comes out
[01:35] <blt> Red_Herring: The trick is finding that config file. I'd prefer not to hack it, actually. I'm trying to fix the bug, so it's a bit of a backslide you see to reinstall gnome.
[01:35] <Red_Herring> oh
[01:35] <UFO> !seveas
[01:35] <ubotu> Seveas has a semi-popular 3rd party repository for several packages. More info (and mirrors) on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[01:36] <Red_Herring> well... it sounds like you know a lot about it
[01:36] <Red_Herring> so that makes any of my advice obsolete
[01:36] <hyperactivecrond> !tell ufo about msgthebot
[01:36] <Red_Herring> !msgthebot
[01:36] <ubotu> Please message the bot (me) in private, more info about the bot: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
[01:37] <blt> Red_Herring: Alright. Well, thanks for your time.
[01:37] <Red_Herring> no problem
[01:37] <hyperactivecrond> !tell Red_Herring about msgthebot
[01:37] <hyperactivecrond> and follow that
[01:37] <Red_Herring> hyperactivecrond, i know
[01:38] <Hobbsee|away> anything i missed?
[01:38] <hyperactivecrond> that's kind of redundant doing !msgthebot
[01:38] <Red_Herring> so why tell me about it?
[01:38] <hyperactivecrond> an oxymoron
[01:38] <Red_Herring> isnt *that* redundant
[01:38] <hyperactivecrond> b/c. msg the bot
[01:38] <hyperactivecrond> not w/ my demented logic
[01:38] <Red_Herring> oh
[01:38] <LjL> where do i file bugs about 3kde .5.1?
[01:38] <Red_Herring> ok
[01:38] <LjL> that's kde 3.5.1
[01:39] <blt> Red_Herring: As a sort of a tangent, when attempting to help someone it is helpful to ascertain what it is that the person whom you are try to help is attempting to do.
[01:39] <Hobbsee> LjL: malone
[01:39] <Hobbsee> you can mark it as fix upstream from there
[01:39] <Red_Herring> blt, i have the vocab of a second grader
[01:39] <Red_Herring> jk
[01:39] <LjL> Hobbsee: thanks. don't think i should mark it as such, it's a bug with the Depends: in a package
[01:39] <Hobbsee> LjL: and mark the bug towards the kubuntu team
[01:39] <Red_Herring> ok
[01:40] <Hobbsee> LjL: paste the error to pastebin?
[01:40] <LjL> yes, hold on
[01:40] <Red_Herring> blt, the thing is, most of the people here are n00bs who dont know how to edit config files, so i just go by "if it works, dont mess with it"
[01:42] <Hobbsee> Red_Herring: which is why you teach them how to do it, so they learn something
[01:42] <LjL> Hobbsee: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/555262
[01:43] <Red_Herring> Hobbsee, it just seems logical that if by removing a package, somethign breaks, to reistall it, sure it works well just to tell them how to edit the config file to get it to work again
[01:43] <Red_Herring> but that just takes up time
[01:43] <Hobbsee> which config file?
[01:43] <Red_Herring> well that depends on the problem
[01:43] <Red_Herring> if no sound is working after you uninstalled gnome
[01:43] <Red_Herring> i wouldnt have the slightest clue where to look
[01:44] <Hobbsee> true
[01:44] <blt> Red_Herring: I agree with Hobbsee. It's harder to teach someone something, but since we're using open source software here it's important that people understand what's going on; otherwise nobody will understand the code, or indeed even be able to use it.
[01:44] <Hobbsee> then you ask someone who does
[01:44] <Hobbsee> you dont have to solve everything
[01:44] <Hobbsee> there are plenty of bits and pieces that i dont understand
[01:44] <Red_Herring> blt, my mom doesnt use thunderbird because the paperclip is in a different spot than in outlook express
[01:44] <Red_Herring> when something breaks
[01:44] <prospero2006> I recently read an article about how online poker was now supported by linux --bye bye windows!~
[01:44] <Red_Herring> i would much rather just have it working again
[01:44] <Red_Herring> than be given a lecture on how to fix it
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> guys
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i need a fast help
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> andrea@taglia:~$ firefox
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> *** Failed to load overlay chrome://dta/content/browserOverlay.xul
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> andrea@taglia:~$ firefox
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> *** Failed to load overlay chrome://dta/content/browserOverlay.xul
[01:45] <Tallia1Kubuntu> sorry for the double... :)
[01:45] <Hobbsee> LjL: file a bug for it, attach a debdiff, then ping one of the motu's
[01:46] <Tallia1Kubuntu> and after that firefox is started i can't click anything ....... :(
[01:46] <blt> Red_Herring: Okay, fine. But not everyone wants that. In addition, most so called "noobs" actually do want to learn. It doesn't help them to say "Meh, just reinstall it".
[01:46] <Hobbsee> LjL: ie, it should be easy enough to fix that
[01:46] <Red_Herring> blt, ok ok
[01:46] <Red_Herring> but in your case i really didnt know wtf was going on
[01:47] <LjL> Hobbsee: i lost you after part 1 ;) i didn't even know a debdiff command existed. should i use it to compare the old avahi-daemon with the current one?
[01:47] <Red_Herring> it just seemed much more times easyer just to backtrack until it worked again
[01:47] <Snake__> blt: whats going on
[01:47] <Hobbsee> LjL: i'll have to look up my logs to see - brb
[01:47] <Red_Herring> in addition, is sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg not good for me to say?
[01:48] <Red_Herring> should i tell them "just edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[01:49] <blt> Snake__: I updated to Kubuntu, Dapper from Ubuntu, Breezy and sound my sound went kaput. The volumes aren't muted, the sound card is find, and I get no error messages from artsd. Sound works perfectly with Gnome installed, but not without. I'm currently trying to fix the problem.
[01:49] <Snake__> blt: Heres your problem: "Dapper"
[01:50] <crimsun> blt: do you have multiple sound devices?
[01:50] <hyperactivecrond> Snake__: ++
[01:50] <Snake__> hyperactivecrond: ?
[01:50] <hyperactivecrond> you scored
[01:50] <blt> Red_Herring: Right, I don't know either. The point is you didn't ask questions.
[01:50] <hyperactivecrond> good answer
[01:51] <blt> Snake__: Hehe, yeah.  My box is an iBook G4, only one sound card.
[01:52] <hyperactivecrond> _vge: speak for thyself
[01:52] <crimsun> blt: pastebin amixer output, please
[01:52] <blt> _vge: What?
[01:52] <blt> crimsun: Sure, hold on please.
[01:52] <LjL> Hobbsee: ?
[01:52] <_vge> nothing, tryed to be sarcastic, but i see i failed pretty bad
[01:53] <Hobbsee> LjL: private message?
[01:53] <hyperactivecrond> this elkbuntu guy in #ubuntu says dapper's 'comfortablly stable'
[01:53] <LjL> Hobbsee: err, private message what? you mean if you can pm me? then sure
[01:53] <Hobbsee> lol
[01:53] <Red_Herring> who here has registered their nick?
[01:54] <_vge> _o_
[01:55] <Tallia1Kubuntu> Red_Herring: have you any clue on my problem with firefoxx?
[01:55] <blt> crimsun: Here you go: http://pastebin.com/555267
[01:55] <blt> Redd_Herring: I have.
[01:55] <Snake__> Tallia1Kubuntu: when do you get that error
[01:56] <Tallia1Kubuntu> as soon as i start it
[01:56] <Tallia1Kubuntu> but i can see it only if i start firefox in the terminal
[01:56] <Tallia1Kubuntu> it is printed out on the standard output
[01:56] <Snake__> Tallia1Kubuntu: does it say that in firefox, or in the terminal
[01:56] <Snake__> i seee
[01:57] <Tallia1Kubuntu> terminal
[01:57] <Snake__> Tallia1Kubuntu: hmm im sorry, I really have no idea :(
[01:58] <Hobbsee> Red_Herring: i've registered about 4 of my nicks...
[01:58] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: You cannont click anything within the firefox window or anywhere?
[01:59] <Hobbsee> and my dapper seems pretty stable
[01:59] <Snake__> Hobbsee: *cough wireless rulez!! cough*
[01:59] <blt> Yeah, this is the only problem I've had with dapper in the last month. It's coming along nicely.
[01:59] <Tallia1Kubuntu> blt: exactly
[01:59] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:59] <Hobbsee> yeah, good point.  apart from that
[01:59] <kwewu14> is athlon-xp a k7?
[01:59] <kwewu14> or 686?
[02:00] <crimsun> blt: sec, in discussion for another topic
[02:01] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: I've not had this problem before, but I'll look around and see what I can come up with. If nothing else I can email you my browserOverlay.xul and we'll see what happens.
[02:01] <blt> crimsun: Oh, sure. Take your time. I'm in no hurry at all.
[02:02] <Snake__> hyperactivecrond: ty
[02:02] <hyperactivecrond> np
[02:02] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: You seemed to be really rushed earlier, though. You are aware that in the mean time you could install and use another browser?
[02:03] <crimsun> blt: try unmuting 'Headphone' and muting 'Auto Mute'
[02:03] <Tallia1Kubuntu> konqueror doesn't work very well
[02:03] <Tallia1Kubuntu> when i click on a link he asks me to open the file with kwrite
[02:03] <snooze> hi everyone
[02:03] <erhan_R> Tallia1Kubuntu:  opera?
[02:03] <snooze> did anyone experience problems with the current nvidia driver with a customized <IP_ADDRESS> kernel?
[02:03] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: I don't mind it, and that's strange behavior as well. HTML link, or text file?
[02:03] <Tallia1Kubuntu> html link
[02:04] <blt> crimsun: Alright, hold on please.
[02:04] <Tallia1Kubuntu> like if i click on the ok button in google
[02:04] <erhan_R> on konquer ?
[02:04] <snooze> hm
[02:04] <snooze> anyone here using a customized <IP_ADDRESS>?
[02:05] <blt> crimsun: Nope, no luck. I've tried most of the muted, unmuted permutations.
[02:05] <erhan_R> no snooze .i dont use. what happened ?
[02:05] <Tallia1Kubuntu> erhan_R: yes
[02:06] <snooze> erhan_R, everything seems to work fine after installing the nvidia driver, x starts up, i can use everything quite normal - until i reboot...
[02:06] <erhan_R> and it opens kwrite hmm
[02:06] <Tallia1Kubuntu> erhan_R: ok i just fixed the conqueror one
[02:06] <Tallia1Kubuntu> it was because html was associated in kcontrol with kwrite
[02:06] <snooze> erhan_R, then, reinstalling nvidia driver does the job, but i don't feel motivated to do it after every boot
[02:06] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: You might want to poke around in the file associations for konqueror. Something has likely been set incorrectly there (Settings->File Associations)
[02:06] <Tallia1Kubuntu> but firefox broken still remanins :(
[02:06] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: Oh, nevermind then.
[02:06] <snooze> erhan_R, hi :)(
[02:07] <snooze> erhan_R, i'm using normal ubuntu here with kde packages installed but i think that wont make any difference, right?
[02:07] <erhan_R> hmm
[02:07] <Tallia1Kubuntu> what about firefox?
[02:07] <snooze> the new file dialogs in gtk2 suck
[02:07] <snooze> like hell
[02:07] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: Still working on it.
[02:07] <snooze> (!)
[02:08] <crimsun> blt: but you say [Dapper] GNOME works?
[02:08] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i will try to reinstall it by now
[02:08] <Tallia1Kubuntu> and uninstall the plugins from the reps
[02:08] <blt> snooze: Did they ever give a good justification for that?
[02:08] <erhan_R>  well actually i dot use kubuntu well i used
[02:08] <snooze> blt, not sure. don't think so.
[02:08] <blt> crimsun: Yes I did.
[02:08] <Tallia1Kubuntu> where are the plugin saved when you install both firefox and plugins from repos?
[02:08] <snooze> blt, maybe just using the ubuntu standard kernel for now does it.
[02:09] <crimsun> blt: can you try GNOME and pastebin the amixer output from it?
[02:09] <snooze> blt, the question is, if i should consider this as a bad workaround or just be happy with that as a solution for now.
[02:09] <snooze> blt, dunno
[02:10] <erhan_R> Tallia1Kubuntu:  did u install fx with source ? or package?
[02:10] <snooze> blt, i come from debian to ubuntu because it's making some things just easier for me :)
[02:10] <blt> snooze: I'm confused. What are you talking about?
[02:10] <Tallia1Kubuntu> package
[02:10] <Tallia1Kubuntu> package only
[02:10] <snooze> blt, still that nvidia stuff
[02:10] <snooze> blt, the thing is, that i need twinview with hardware acceleration on my system.
[02:11] <Tallia1Kubuntu> oh my god.... w3m is amazing :)
[02:11] <blt> crimsun: I don't have GNOME installed any longer, but I saved an amixer output from a working sound configuration and there is no change.
[02:11] <snooze> blt, and somehow i feel motivated to have my own <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:11] <rich0rd> snooze: i have that (but actually with debian on my workstation)
[02:11] <blt> snooze: Oh, okay. I got confused.  I haven't used it in years.
[02:16] <crimsun> blt: normally there's a listing of register values from ac97, but you don't have that, so the contents of every file in /proc/asound/
[02:16] <__mikem> Hey crimsun remember me
[02:16] <blt> Snake__: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/windows.html
[02:16] <__mikem> the guy that ranted here 2 days ago
[02:17] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, hi again __mikem
[02:17] <erhan_R> i gtg . its strange well Tallia1Kubuntu : i just recommend u install fx with source .  cya
[02:17] <blt> crimsun: Alright. Is there any special way you want to go about doing this? There are 24 files. Or, would you prefer I pastebin you a tree dump so that you can choose the file you'd like to see.
[02:18] <Knowerrors> To anybody using FF 1.5, have you updated it, if so how?  (Im reading the wiki now and there are several methods listed.)
[02:18] <__mikem> HEy, is this qtWindows free
[02:18] <__mikem> I could use it
[02:18] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: I've not found anything concerning your Firefox problem. Sorry.
[02:19] <Snake__> blt: im looking for something that that can be used like GTK+ for windows to run the gimp, etc. I would like to run kopete on windows
[02:19] <erhan_R> mine is <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:19] <crimsun> blt: ``cat $(find /proc/asound)'' will suffice
[02:19] <blt> Snake__: Ah, that I'm not sure about.
[02:19] <erhan_R> sometimes with flash player makes me mad too :) anyhow bye
[02:19] <ccc_> Knowerrors: yup. i followed the first section
[02:19] <blt> __mikem: If I remember correctly QT is free for all GPL projects, or something along those lines.
[02:20] <Snake__> __mikem: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/pricing.html?cid=18
[02:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> blt: tnx
[02:20] <Tallia1Kubuntu> if i want to delete all the preferences of firefox, maybe the error is in there
[02:21] <Tallia1Kubuntu> what do i need to keep and where i can find it?
[02:21] <UFO> is the i386 dvd only 2GB big?
[02:21] <__mikem> blt, I just came accross that, I am going to do a bit more research on it then probably download it, thanks
[02:21] <blt> __mikem: Sure.
[02:21] <__mikem> snake__ same thing
[02:21] <blt> crimsun: Alright. I'll have that up in a moment.
[02:22] <__mikem> I am a seasoned win32 programmer and this seems like a great way to start developing linux apps
[02:23] <blt> crimsun: Here you are. http://pastebin.com/555279 If I might ask, what are you looking for?
[02:23] <__mikem> do they ever empty out the oldest posts to pastebin
[02:24] <blt> __mikem: Oh really? Neato. I wish you much success then and hope things go smoothly.
[02:24] <__mikem> thanks
[02:24] <blt> __mikem: What languages do you code in?
[02:24] <__mikem> c++ and asm
[02:25] <Red_Herring> asm?
[02:25] <__mikem> assemply language
[02:25] <Red_Herring> i know
[02:25] <Red_Herring> how do you run apps in it?
[02:25] <Red_Herring> i mean, is there an IDE for it?
[02:25] <__mikem> o no. I just use a text editor and the commandline
[02:26] <Red_Herring> wow
[02:26] <Red_Herring> nice
[02:26] <__mikem> WEll, I will admit, I I do occasionally use an ide called WinASM
[02:26] <__mikem> but this ide doesn't really do muc
[02:26] <__mikem> much
[02:26] <__mikem> no intelisence or anything
[02:27] <__mikem> but it does have a function list for when I make api calls
[02:27] <blt> Why asm, other than for the hell of it?
[02:27] <__mikem> I am a masocist
[02:27] <blt> Yes, so you are.
[02:28] <UFO> how do i see my current resolution from console
[02:28] <__mikem> DOn't worry, I only toy with assembly, all my serious stuff I do in C
[02:28] <Red_Herring> i like c++
[02:28] <Red_Herring> it just makes sense to me
[02:28] <blt> __mikem: I had no doubts.
[02:28] <crimsun> blt: any incongruities between /proc/asound/card{}/pcm0p/info and other information
[02:28] <Red_Herring> i like what java has, but i really hate the vm
[02:29] <crimsun> blt: perhaps if you could test a daily of Ubuntu live
[02:29] <blt> crimsun: I thought so. I didn't notice any, but then sound cards aren't really my area of expertise. Thank you for attempting to help.
[02:29] <Tallia1Kubuntu> blt: just resolved
[02:29] <__mikem> At my highschool, one of the clubs participates in this state wide competition for various business fields, one of which is c++ programming. I got first place in it at the county level and am going to compete at the state level in april
[02:30] <Red_Herring> really?
[02:30] <Red_Herring> wow
[02:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i copied my bookmarks and then i deleted all the firefox subdirectory from home/.mozilla
[02:30] <Red_Herring> i wanna get in a contest
[02:30] <Red_Herring> but i dont know where they are
[02:30] <blt> Tallia1Kubuntu: Neat. Congratulations.
[02:30] <Knowerrors> Anybody using kde 3.5.1 and Gwenview plug, when I click on the image view button, to switch to Gwenview mode, konq crashes, anybody else get this?
[02:30] <Red_Herring> but i did move on in the AMC
[02:30] <__mikem> AMC?
[02:30] <Red_Herring> to my surprize
[02:30] <Red_Herring> American Math Contest
[02:30] <__mikem> COngrats
[02:31] <Red_Herring> :-D
[02:31] <__mikem> what kind of stuff do you do in that
[02:31] <Red_Herring> just problem solving
[02:31] <blt> __mikem: Since it sounds like you're using Linux now, at least part time, are you attempting to learn new languages?
[02:31] <Red_Herring> i just halfassed it
[02:31] <Red_Herring> and managed to get the BARE MINIMUM TO PASS!
[02:31] <__mikem> Well, one of these days I am going to need to learn sql so I can start writing db driven apps
[02:31] <blt> crimsun: I'll try that and compare the results. I take it you didn't notice anything either?
[02:32] <__mikem> Red_Herring sounds like it was a real sweat
[02:32] <Red_Herring> yeah
[02:32] <crimsun> blt: well I have no comparison (since I don't have such hardware myself)
[02:32] <blt> __mikem: Do you mind if I give you a bit of advice?
[02:32] <__mikem> go ahead
[02:32] <blt> crimsun: Right.
[02:33] <crimsun> blt: but the /info pretty much confirms what I thought: Your subdevices_count and subdevices_avail clash
[02:33] <t3nd0> trying to get open gl to work on my machine ::  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=732718&postcount=997
[02:33] <__mikem> blt what advice
[02:33] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: thats a rerun episode... Daily show was new though
[02:33] <Red_Herring> i know
[02:33] <blt> __mikem: Learn more languages. Flexiblity of thought is important when coding. Linux is a great platform for playing with new languages.
[02:34] <Red_Herring> i missed the daily show
[02:34] <Red_Herring> this girl called
[02:34] <Red_Herring> and i had to listen
[02:34] <Red_Herring> ya know how that is
[02:34] <blt> crimsun: Oh, I hadn't noticed that at all. Thanks for pointing that out.
[02:34] <__mikem> blt: oh definitely, I thought you were going to call me for bragging, which I will admit I sometimes do from time to time without realizing it
[02:34] <Knowerrors> hehe, ya got to get VDR or MythTV Red_Herring
[02:34] <blt> __mikem: Also, stop bragging. :)
[02:34] <__mikem> lol
[02:34] <__mikem> ok
[02:34] <Red_Herring> tvtime!
[02:35] <Red_Herring> i cant get ubuntu to set up mysql
[02:35] <Red_Herring> !mysql
[02:35] <ubotu> lamp is, like, totally, Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP, one of the standard internet server installations. Installing LAMP in Ubuntu is fairly straightforward. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP
[02:35] <Knowerrors> Im watching TV on my linux box now, with TVtime, use VDR to record stuff
[02:35] <Red_Herring> oh, nice
[02:35] <Red_Herring> vdr?
[02:35] <Knowerrors> yeah, its in the repos...
[02:35] <blt> crimsun: Do you have any idea about what might be causing that?
[02:36] <__mikem> linux always has the right tool for the job
[02:36] <__mikem> built for it
[02:36] <crimsun> blt: lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*
[02:36] <Knowerrors> VDR is like having TiVo for linux, same with MythTV
[02:36] <Red_Herring> nice
[02:36] <t3nd0> can someone tell me which one of these package i get for a pentium 4 (3.0ghz)?  http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
[02:37] <crimsun> t3nd0: ia32
[02:37] <__mikem> I like playing dvds on my laptop, but this video card is so old that it can't keep up with the high fps rate
[02:37] <Red_Herring> uhhh
[02:37] <Red_Herring> it says i need to turn off utf-8
[02:37] <t3nd0> what the heck my tab thing doesnt work
[02:38] <Red_Herring> how do i turn off utf-8?
[02:38] <t3nd0> thanks crimsun
[02:38] <t3nd0> :)
[02:38] <Red_Herring> how many of you know that hitting <tab> autofills in the name of what you are typing?
[02:38] <blt> crimsun: No /dev/sdn/. I'm quickly stepping out of my range of understanding here, by the way. For instance, I didn't know to check for /dev/snd/. Is there documentation describing how the sound sytem is supposed to work? I've been flying by the seat of my pants.
[02:38] <Red_Herring> as in Red_Herring
[02:38] <t3nd0> mine isnt working for some reason
[02:38] <t3nd0> Red_Herring, err now it is
[02:38] <t3nd0> that was strange
[02:39] <Red_Herring> yeah
[02:39] <Red_Herring> anyone have any idea on how to turn off utf-8?
[02:39] <__mikem> Wow, I hope I never incounter these problems, they sound complicated, and my knowlege of windows doesn't help here
[02:40] <t3nd0> __mikem, i wish i could transfer my XP knowledge to linux somehow :)
[02:40] <Red_Herring> __mikem, no it doesnt  :-)
[02:40] <crimsun> blt: are you looking for a high-level (broad) or a low-level overview?
[02:40] <blt> __mikem: Low-level.
[02:40] <Red_Herring> arg, this is very aggrivating
[02:40] <__mikem> yes
[02:40] <Red_Herring> just like how bad mythtv is
[02:40] <__mikem> definitely low level
[02:41] <UFO> hey, is the kubuntu dvd really only 2gb big...
[02:41] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: is this an error youre getting from what, VDR?
[02:41] <__mikem> what is mythtv, sounds fun
[02:41] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, yeah
[02:41] <Red_Herring> and mythtv complains about mysql
[02:41] <__mikem> oh, as I said, I still need to learn sql one of these days
[02:41] <Red_Herring> __mikem, mythtv is a tivo like program
[02:42] <UFO> have you seen the drambox sat reciever? it got linux inside...
[02:42] <Red_Herring> really?
[02:42] <Red_Herring> neat
[02:42] <__mikem> oh, I literally thought you were saying that people complain about mysql on mythtv
[02:42] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: I had that utf-8 problem with ubuntu and vdr... finding you answer now
[02:42] <UFO> sorry dreambox
[02:42] <blt> __mikem: Why learn sql when you could use a language that has bindings to it? (Meaning you learn a more general language, plus enough sql to get by.)
[02:42] <__mikem> lol
[02:42] <blt> I'll be back shortly. I've laundry to do.
[02:42] <__mikem> blt my dad would never hear of it
[02:42] <__mikem> hb
[02:44] <__mikem> silent in here
[02:44] <Red_Herring> yeah
[02:45] <Red_Herring> "what if they called it the 'if you vote against this bill you are unpatriotic' bill, then would you vote for it"?
[02:45] <__mikem> Um, depends on what it is
[02:45] <__mikem> ?
[02:45] <Red_Herring> the patriot act
[02:45] <Red_Herring> i was quoting the colbert report
[02:46] <__mikem> Oh, you should probably know, I am republican
[02:46] <Red_Herring> ok
[02:46] <Red_Herring> good
[02:46] <prospero2006> I've definitely got to get a t.v tuner card
[02:46] <Red_Herring> yeah
[02:46] <Red_Herring> its really nice
[02:46] <__mikem> Oh they are great
[02:46] <__mikem> you can't beat them
[02:46] <__mikem> except maybe with hd tv
[02:46] <prospero2006> How much do they run?
[02:46] <Red_Herring> i really like my compro pvr
[02:46] <Knowerrors> you can get tuner cards that do HDTV
[02:47] <__mikem> tv tuners, I never realy priced them, my dad bought one for the computer in the guestroom
[02:47] <Red_Herring> prospero2006, my compro pvr was 30 bucks
[02:47] <__mikem> Knowerrors Nice, when we get an hd tv we will look in to that
[02:47] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: I compiled VDR manually, hence, I had edited a startup script to turn off utf-8
[02:47] <Red_Herring> well, how do i turn it off at all?
[02:47] <Knowerrors> __mikem: most computer monitors are HD..
[02:48] <__mikem> YEh, not as big though
[02:48] <Red_Herring> alla re
[02:48] <Red_Herring> * all are
[02:48] <__mikem> I want one of those wall mounts
[02:48] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: find the vdr startup script...
[02:48] <__mikem> but good point
[02:48] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, i can just turn it off at startup
[02:48] <Red_Herring> i just dont know how
[02:49] <blt> __mikem: Your Dad would never hear of it? Coding in straight sql isn't easy, nor is it particularly instructive.
[02:49] <__mikem> Open the script and delete a few lines, (or add a few depending on how its setup)
[02:49] <Knowerrors> What I did- export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.19 export LANG="en_US.iso8859-1" export LC_TYPE="ISO-8859-1"
[02:49] <Red_Herring> kernel 2.4.19?
[02:49] <Knowerrors> at the begining of the vdrstart script
[02:49] <Red_Herring> oh
[02:49] <Red_Herring> ok
[02:49] <Knowerrors> that line may not be needed, the other two are though
[02:50] <Red_Herring> ok
[02:50] <__mikem> blt I know, but dad comes from a business programming background (eg vb & ado.net) and is a heavy advocate of doing things a certain way
[02:51] <__mikem> totally different game than the low level programming I typically spend my time doing, but he still has more experience than I do
[02:51] <troy> amarok 1.4 beta is a pain to build manually for breezy-amd64 - but it works so nicely once it's built! yay!
[02:52] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: do you have a digital tuner card, or just a video in card?
[02:52] <__mikem> Binary packages are best
[02:52] <__mikem> no messy scripts to run,
[02:52] <__mikem> just execute the package and it does the rest
[02:52] <UFO> __mikem: the sql is quite aesy to learn
[02:52] <blt> __mikem: Right, I gathered that. But why trap yourself doing a certain sort of programming? Unless, of course, all you want to do is business programming. But even then it's the ideas, and not the languages, that are the important bits. The more arcane the language the less ideas come through with ease.
[02:53] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, a tv tuner card
[02:53] <Red_Herring> i *think* it may be digital
[02:53] <Red_Herring> but i use it for cable
[02:53] <__mikem> I want design/maintain opperating systems when I am older, perhaps work on the linux kernel, I don't know. But even I think its probably a good idea to know it anyway just incase
[02:54] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: really, there is a place in the pack for a sub card then?
[02:54] <Knowerrors> the back
[02:55] <UFO> __mikem: yes its probably your first job if start as programmer... you do an interface to database...
[02:55] <blt> __mikem: Okay, Well, you can start playing with operating systems now. UFO is right, sql isn't hard to pick up. If you need to it can be done in a flash. Operating Systems are damn hard (and more fun), so why spend time training to become a business programmer?
[02:55] <snooze_> is there a way to tell X, which display it should take as my primary one?
[02:55] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, sub card? sure
[02:55] <__mikem> A few months ago I built a PE Disassembler
[02:55] <snooze_> i had the same problem with my last install, but i don't remember how i got it fixed.
[02:56] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: youre in the US?  Thats cool your cable company supports using a coputer tuner card
[02:56] <__mikem> a little later this year I am going to dig up the source code, do a rewrite (It wasn't the neatest code ever writen) and make it available for downlaod somewhere
[02:56] <UFO> operating systems and kernels uses lot of data for bus and adress for memory and such things
[02:56] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, yeah, i have cable internet too ;-)
[02:57] <UFO> Red_Herring: what do you have up bitrate on cable?
[02:57] <Red_Herring> downstream
[02:57] <Red_Herring> 1/2 MB
[02:57] <Red_Herring> upstream
[02:57] <Red_Herring> 50KB
[02:57] <Red_Herring> i can make a nice server with that bandwidth
[02:57] <Red_Herring> :-)
[02:58] <blt> __mikem: If you want to play with operating systems, you are aware of the toy ones that have been built for learning purposes, correct?
[02:58] <__mikem> Better than the IIS we have running here
[02:58] <__mikem> No I havn't actually, but I could look in to that
[02:58] <snooze_> allright
[02:59] <snooze_> now i've made myself 2 bash scripts that i can execute directly after setting up the main system and it sets me up all the hard-to-setup crap that would take hours :)
[02:59] <UFO> __mikem: try to look in some small driver like serialport or something... you can get the idea of style of programming...
[02:59] <blt> __mikem: It would be worth it. Any good University library will have books on the subject and source code. Or, you could just google and dick around.
[02:59] <snooze_> very nice.
[02:59] <__mikem> UFO, Ive done low level programming  before, I know what its like
[02:59] <UFO> __mikem: ok... assembly ;)
[03:00] <__mikem> but writing a driver first and working my way up does sound like a good idea
[03:01] <__mikem> Perhaps something to interface with my dads new measurement systems instruments he bought
[03:01] <__mikem> Hes been grappling with the ones they provided him last I heard
[03:01] <blt> The trick is getting the specs for the device.
[03:02] <__mikem> Good point, do you think they will be handing those out
[03:02] <__mikem> its a simple device that measures the room temperature and things like that
[03:02] <blt> It depends on the company, really.
[03:02] <__mikem> The product was designed for developers who use Visual Studio, so what do you think?
[03:02] <UFO> __mikem: mostly they use serial type thing but you have to parse the data its coming in from device
[03:03] <Knowerrors> Red_Herring: linuxtv.org - dvbn.happysat.org - mythtv.org
[03:04] <__mikem> I have to know what physical address is for the device, then its childs play, there are two x86 instructions specifically for doing this, namely "in" and "out"
[03:04] <UFO> __mikem: is it connected to serialport?
[03:04] <Red_Herring> Knowerrors, thanks
[03:05] <__mikem> Actually, I think its usb, but I am not sure, I never actually looked at the thing
[03:05] <Knowerrors> theres a section on dvbn for linux only, and one also for cable
[03:06] <UFO> Red_Herring: http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025_technical.php
[03:07] <blt> crimsun: Thanks for your help, by the way.
[03:07] <UFO> __mikem: usb is allmost like com universal serial bus... the idea is in the serial you have to read some receive or transmit address
[03:09] <blt> __mikem: You Dad is from a business background and, as you said, is an advocate of doing things "a certain way". I'm from an academic background, and so I find it interesting that my immediate thought upon reading that was "Oh no. *slaps forehead* There is no certain way to anything!"
[03:09] <UFO> __mikem: and look in kernel config there is a lot of usb things allready.
[03:09] <__mikem> YOu can imagine what he said when I told him I wanted to learn c++. Being a vb programmer, the first thing he said was that it was a waste of time
[03:10] <__mikem> this device is for windows
[03:10] <__mikem> designed for windows I mean
[03:10] <__mikem> as far as I know
[03:11] <blt> Heh, I would put forth the assertion that learning VB is a waste of time, relativley speaking. Unless you're planning on only being a business programmer (which I hope you're not, you sound like a smart kid) having a C type language in your toolkit is helpful.
[03:11] <blt> Of course, C type languages are still used all the time in business.
[03:11] <__mikem> blt thanks
[03:11] <UFO> http://liw.iki.fi/liw/texts/linux-anecdotes how torvald got the idea to create linux it came allmost from driver programming :)
[03:12] <__mikem> The other thing was, he is still saying that I am wasting my time with assembly
[03:12] <__mikem> thanks UFO
[03:13] <__mikem> LOL, by the way blt, are you infering that business programmers are NOT smart
[03:14] <blt> Heh. Knowing assmebly is important. Not because you're going to spend a lot of time coding in it (god help you if you are) but because it drives into you an understanding of what the computer is actually doing. Any CS course worth it's salt will make you learn assembly. (Yeah. That's a certain bias that runs strong in academic circles. Hehe.)
[03:14] <robotgeek> it doesn't hurt at all to learn C though
[03:14] <Red_Herring> well
[03:15] <robotgeek> blt: i'm a mechanical engg, and i've coded in assembly.
[03:15] <Red_Herring> c++ is the foundation of 90% of the other languages outthere
[03:15] <Red_Herring> its a GREAT language to start on
[03:15] <__mikem> robotgeek Thats cool, hardware is not really my thing
[03:15] <_vge> Assembly is the mother of all headaches
[03:15] <__mikem> lol
[03:15] <__mikem> true
[03:16] <Red_Herring> why do all of you have a _ before your nicK?
[03:16] <robotgeek> Red_Herring: +1
[03:16] <UFO> assembly is most for chip programming... you can do same things with c++
[03:16] <Red_Herring> what?
[03:16] <_vge> cos my nick is so leet that everyone wants to use it
[03:16] <Red_Herring> +1
[03:16] <__mikem> because someone has already been using mikem
[03:16] <Red_Herring> oh
[03:16] <robotgeek> Red_Herring: i did not want to type the same thing :)
[03:16] <__mikem> Assembly programming is also good if you need to write fast code
[03:16] <__mikem> which granted you can do in c
[03:16] <robotgeek> Vge_: that tab completes more easily :)
[03:17] <__mikem> but sometimes even C is not enough
[03:17] <ewaldo> hallo
[03:17] <__mikem> hello
[03:17] <Vge_> true
[03:17] <robotgeek> lets all just get faster processors :)
[03:17] <coolio10> vv
[03:17] <__mikem> thats your department, your the engineer
[03:17] <coolio10>  ?
[03:17] <blt> robotgeek has a point. Programmer time is expensive, hardware isn't.
[03:18] <__mikem> So, that means more money for me
[03:18] <robotgeek> coolio10: is that a annoying away script ?
[03:19] <coolio10> yes
[03:19] <robotgeek> unless I really need to, i wouldn't step down to C. Like I had to for my robotics class
[03:19] <blt> Perhaps it means more money, but it's ideas that are important, not 10 milliseconds on a loop you spent six days on.
[03:19] <robotgeek> coolio10: please turn that off, it's pretty irritating. no one is interested, really
[03:20] <__mikem> I consider C and C++ to be on the same level, because when I use classes, I don't use them liberally like the "geniuses" who designed MFC did
[03:20] <blt> s/on a loop/from a loop/
[03:20] <coolio10>  ok :)
[03:20] <Nirvana> Anybody here know what is taught in grade 10 Computer Tech?
[03:20] <__mikem> I will through in a SMALL (emphasis on small) class representing a data structure
[03:20] <__mikem> I never go beyond 1 or 2 levels of inheritance
[03:20] <blt> Nirvana: That differs wildly from school to school.
[03:21] <__mikem> Id like to learn one of those AI programming languages like Fourth
[03:21] <__mikem> or Smalltalk
[03:21] <blt> robotgeek: ML is nice and lispy.
[03:21] <robotgeek> __mikem: forth is ugly!
[03:21] <robotgeek> blt: ML?
[03:21] <__mikem> I tried caml and Ocaml once
[03:21] <blt> Yeah, forth is dieing for a reason.
[03:21] <__mikem> I will never use any ML based languages again
[03:22] <blt> Heh, it was a joke. The University of Chicago is stuck on ML. The guy that wrote the compiler controls the CS department, so yeah. I still have nightmares.
[03:22] <robotgeek> pray, what is ML. I am a mechanical engineer, mind you :)
[03:22] <__mikem> blt that sounds horible
[03:22] <Nirvana> crap... wildly differences :( -- I really wanna break into C or something to (maybe python)
[03:22] <__mikem> I mean if you have even seen an ml source, you just can't help it scream WHY!!???
[03:22] <robotgeek> Nirvana: python is an excellent first programming language to learn
[03:23] <t3nd0> wow i tried to update to kernel 2.6.12-10-386 and the loader gets to *Checking Battery State and then hangs
[03:23] <blt> robotgeek: You can read about it in the wikipedia.
[03:23] <blt> Nirvana: I agree with robotgeek. Python is a lovely first language.
[03:23] <__mikem> I think people should get the hang of the basics with something like javascript, and then jump in to the language of their choice when they are ready to get their feat wet writing apps
[03:24] <__mikem> Thats actually how I learned
[03:24] <Nirvana> yeah I know... my cousin knows python.. and can teach me... but I don't wanna learn it if I can't use it in High School courses, because I'll just forget it
[03:24] <t3nd0> what about perl isnt that a good one to start with also?
[03:24] <__mikem> Ive seen python code, the syntax is very nice
[03:25] <Nirvana> ^same
[03:25] <blt> t3nd0: It depends. Do you like write only code? (Sort of joke.)
[03:25] <robotgeek> :)
[03:25] <__mikem> lol @ blt
[03:25] <t3nd0> yeah nice english hehe
[03:25] <Nomad411> I'm listening to radio streaming in vlc, is it normal that top shows artsd at 95% most of the time?
[03:25] <blt> Python is a lovely language. You can bang it out, have it not turn to swiss cheese, and then replace bits with C if speed is absolutely necissary.
[03:26] <robotgeek> Nirvana: no
[03:26] <Nirvana> yes?
[03:26] <Nirvana> no to what?
[03:26] <__mikem> so blt, when you said you hope I wasn't going to be a business programmer because "I sound like a smart kid" were you implying that business programmers were dumb
[03:26] <robotgeek> Nirvana: oops, tabcomplete error
[03:26] <dev_nu11> is there a file that is run when a machine boots up?
[03:26] <robotgeek> Nomad411: no, it;s not normal
[03:26] <Nirvana> there's an extension that fills out peoples names for you?? Do tell!
[03:27] <Nomad411> robotgeek: I would think not.. :(  What could I do to figure this out?
[03:27] <zblach> hey, quick question. how to kill running processes in kde?
[03:27] <__mikem> lol
[03:27] <robotgeek> Nirvana: just type "robot <tab>"
[03:27] <t3nd0> ON TOPIC: i tried to update to kernel 2.6.12-10-386 and the loader gets to *Checking Battery State and then hangs
[03:27] <t3nd0> :)
[03:27] <robotgeek> t3nd0: :)
[03:28] <Nirvana> OMG! I love you! that is so helpful!
[03:28] <blt> No, it just kind of seems like wasted talent. I'm a person that values innovation and research, not VB and TPS reports.
[03:28] <robotgeek> acpi=off stuff
[03:28] <t3nd0> TPS FTW
[03:28] <__mikem> VB and TPS reports  I don't even know what TPS reports are
[03:28] <robotgeek> __mikem: TPS reports are from "Office Space"
[03:28] <__mikem> I love that movie
[03:28] <blt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPS_report
[03:28] <Nomad411> !artsd
[03:28] <ubotu> Do they come in packets of five. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Nomad411
[03:28] <zblach> xmms has locked, and it must be terminated. how?
[03:29] <__mikem> um, yeh, I am going to need you to come in saturday
[03:29] <__mikem> lol
[03:29] <robotgeek> zblach: open a konsole, and do a "killall xmms"
[03:29] <robotgeek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPS_report
[03:29] <blt> Actually TPS reports are used in QA in software houses. They're real, they're tedious, and they're evil.
[03:29] <__mikem> I will give one thing to the vb comunity, VB.net is loads better than vb6, (I tried vb.net out of morbid curiousity a few times)
[03:29] <robotgeek> Nomad411: can you try it with a different player, like xmms
[03:30] <robotgeek> Nomad411: or kaffeine
[03:30] <__mikem> lol, you seem to have some deap routed issues here blt
[03:30] <Nomad411> I just turned off vlc, it's still hovering at around 50%
[03:30] <zblach> robotgeek, is there a graphical client?
[03:31] <Nomad411> spikes up to 95%,
[03:31] <lordjoe> zblach: you can use KSysGuard (found in k menu -> system)
[03:31] <blt> __mikem: Mostly it stems from major authority problem; which is to say that I can't stand any of it.
[03:31] <blt> s/problem/problems/
[03:31] <robotgeek> zblach: right click on the panel, add applet to panel -> run away process catcher
[03:31] <zblach> lordjoe, thanks
[03:31] <__mikem> My dad has that problem with his boss, but the problem is in the sails department
[03:31] <__mikem> sales*
[03:32] <__mikem> He is vp of sales for CGI, but he writes software for them from time to time also
[03:32] <__mikem> I even wrote some code that monitors their press
[03:32] <Nomad411> weird, I turn off the mic in mixer and it,s still on
[03:32] <zblach> robotgeek, also thanks
[03:32] <robotgeek> http://www.chrisglass.com/journal/downloads/TPSreport.pdf
[03:32] <Nomad411> Anybody want an Audigy soundcard?  sucks!
[03:33] <zblach> Nomad411, they're not so bad
[03:33] <__mikem> I am using the XFI
[03:33] <Nomad411> I know..
[03:33] <__mikem> nomad
[03:33] <Nomad411> :)
[03:33] <Nomad411> But I have weird sound issues since updating to KDE 3.5
[03:34] <Nomad411> __mikem: __mikem?
[03:34] <__mikem> um?
[03:34] <__mikem> what?
[03:34] <Nomad411> you said nomad
[03:34] <__mikem> Yes
[03:34] <__mikem> I was talking to you
[03:34] <Red_Herring> its not a bug, its a feature!
[03:34] <__mikem> yup
[03:34] <robotgeek> Firefox 1.5 huh
[03:34] <Red_Herring> yeah
[03:34] <__mikem> a feature, thats what us software developers say to avoid the grill
[03:34] <blt> Meh, but whatever. I have this gut feeling that technology shouldn't enslave us, so things that don't press forward, as it were, tend to irk me.
[03:34] <robotgeek> Good PR :)
[03:35] <__mikem> I dread the day when all these RAD tools put people like me out of business
[03:35] <blt> RAD?
[03:35] <__mikem> Rapid APplication Development
[03:35] <Nomad411> !sound
[03:35] <ubotu> methinks sound is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems or http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundProblemsHoary
[03:36] <robotgeek> Nomad411: does it also occur while using Kaffeine?
[03:36] <__mikem> good idea robotgeek, just don't hold me at ransome
[03:36] <robotgeek> </evil Dr. evil laughter>
[03:36] <blt> Oh. No, those won't put anyone out of business. Compilers are pretty much the same thing, assuming you spend all of your time writing assembler. People will just end up doing neater things, not wasting their time writing tedious code.
[03:37] <blt> Programmer time is expensive and precious.
[03:37] <__mikem> I know, but I hear these stories about these technologies where people created FULLY FUNCTIONAL apps with this tool where all they did was drag and drop a few things
[03:38] <__mikem> I can't stand the thought of these no tallent guys with a WYSIWYG taking credit for apps they didn't really write
[03:39] <blt> Right, but those tend to be rather bland applications anyway that do pretty much the same thing everyone else is doing, at least the drag and drop stuff.
[03:39] <__mikem> Yeh, but its tools like those that are truely EVIL, even more so than TPS reports
[03:39] <Nomad411> robotgeek: Installing kafeine
[03:40] <__mikem> People drag and drop, maybe write a few "event handlers" and think they are all that
[03:40] <__mikem> when the code they bearly even looked at compiles
[03:41] <Red_Herring> hey
[03:41] <blt> I wouldn't say they're evil. Automation is a splendid thing that tends to free creative people up, allowing them to make newer, neater things. People who think they're all that and a bag of chips for dragging and dropping are always going to exist, in one form or another.
[03:41] <Red_Herring> i write a nice ttt java prog
[03:41] <Red_Herring> anyone care to look?
[03:42] <__mikem> yeh, true, but it just makes me so mad, especially after all the hard work I did learning C++, Assembly, and other languages where a WYSIWYG and anything of the sort has no place
[03:42] <Nomad411> robotgeek: seems kafeine will not play any of the video formats I have
[03:42] <Nomad411> and it complains of missing alsa-sink when starting?
[03:43] <LjL> RAD tools are useful __mikem. they're just not the same thing as a plain text editor and compiler, which still have their very important place in my opinion
[03:43] <dev_nu11> I'm trying to find the file that runs when a machine boots up, is /etc/mkinitrd the right file?
[03:44] <robotgeek> Nomad411: better install kaffeine-xine
[03:44] <Nomad411> ok
[03:44] <LjL> everything has its place, there are cases where you need a RAD tool, and cases where you just sit down and write code.  the only sad thing is that these cases often get mixed up by people who know no better
[03:44] <robotgeek> dev_nu11: why are you doing that?
[03:44] <__mikem> thanks, I have no problem with rad tools, but when some vb programmer thinks they can presume to claim to tell me how to do my job, I just can't stand it
[03:44] <blt> I understand that, but you're probably a better coder for the hard work. The trick is, though, if they end up doing neater things who ends up coming out on top, add more. Sure, slashcode could have been written as an assembler language application, but there was no reason to do so. In the same vein, sometimes it's nice to have tedious code plunked down for you.
[03:45] <dev_nu11> __mikem: i want to run a program when i boot my machine
[03:45] <dev_nu11> i mean robotgeek
[03:45] <blt> dev_null: Do you want to add it to the bootup, or would a cron job suffice?
[03:45] <__mikem> find the startup script for your account, and add a line that starts the program you want to run dev_null
[03:45] <LjL> dev_nu11: i think you should write a script in /etc/init.d
[03:45] <dev_nu11> on bootup
[03:45] <blt> What program?
[03:46] <robotgeek> dev_nu11: "man update-rc.d"
[03:46] <__mikem> you may need to run as root to modify any startup scripts
[03:46] <dev_nu11> so everything in init.d gets run
[03:46] <dev_nu11> that sounds like what I need
[03:46] <blt> Why do you want everything in init.d to run?
[03:46] <LjL> dev_nu11: no, not until you use update-rc.d to tell it how and when to run
[03:46] <dev_nu11> ok, i'll read up on that, thanks
[03:46] <LjL> dev_nu11: also, scripts in /etc/init.d should have a specific format, namely they should accept "start", "stop" and "restart" as arguments
[03:47] <Nomad411> robotgeek: Nope, alsa-sink is still an issue.. I installed kaffeine-xine
[03:47] <blt> __mikem: Arrogant people are usually those that shouldn't be. It's a sad fact of life. VB/RoR/$FOO jerks will happen, but that doesn't mean their tools are bad.
[03:47] <Nomad411> I'm going to follow the recommendation sfrom the wiki and see where that leads
[03:47] <blt> Laundry time.
[03:48] <robotgeek> Nomad411: cool
[03:48] <LjL> dev_nu11: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/555362  this *should* be a decent template for an init.d script
[03:48] <Nomad411> robotgeek: thanks though :)
[03:49] <dev_nu11> LjL: thanks
[03:49] <__mikem> I have nothing against vb, .NET (which I use from time to time), and things like that, but people need to stop saying that things like .NET and managed code are the "future of application development"
[03:49] <robotgeek> Nomad411: SURE
[03:49] <dev_nu11> and everyone else
[03:49] <robotgeek> my bad, accidental caps locking
[03:49] <prospero2006> I
[03:49] <prospero2006> I'm an amatuer programmer, but it seems like Sun Java has about everything you need
[03:49] <LjL> __mikem: they might even be right, who knows
[03:50] <__mikem> I honestly hope not, I love low level stuff, as hard as it is, the chalange makes it fun
[03:51] <__mikem> what dns was that
[03:51] <prospero2006> Do you have any experience with sk_buff and how that works?
[03:51] <__mikem> RobotGeek, what dns was that
[03:51] <LjL> __mikem: yeah but APIs become more and more complicated, to the point where programming in C now is probably becoming as difficuly as was programming in assembler 20 years ago
[03:51] <robotgeek> __mikem: no clue, his ban time expired :)
[03:51] <__mikem> oh,
[03:52] <LjL> __mikem: i mean of course programming applications that have GUIs or some other complex interface to some toolkit, of course, a plain ANSI C console application will stay the same as it was 20 years ago
[03:52] <__mikem> LjL, my response to that is simple, BUILD A NEW API
[03:52] <robotgeek> like the amazing screen :)
[03:52] <LjL> __mikem: i would tend to say that too. but, perhaps i'm mistaken, but that approach seems to either be unfeasible or to be ignored...
[03:53] <__mikem> You don't see many console apps that are meant to run stand alone
[03:53] <LjL> __mikem: for some reason, APIs still keep getting more complicated, and instead of building new ones, people make tools to get around them
[03:54] <__mikem> yeh, no problem with that, but the code those tools generate should still be just as fast, otherwise its really like going one step forwards and two steps back
[03:54] <LjL> __mikem: i agree that it's mostly going backwards, but that doesn't surprise me, when today, in 2006, in need ten times more RAM than i needed 10 years ago, to do the same things
[03:55] <LjL> in=i
[03:55] <__mikem> We don't need more ram than we did then, back then we could only have up to 64 megs
[03:55] <__mikem> so we were kind of stuck writing software wthat was more conservative or resources
[03:55] <LjL> but apparently, we do need it, otherwise our programs grind to a halt
[03:55] <__mikem> yup
[03:56] <LjL> well i think it's only partially a problem of resource sparing
[03:56] <LjL> that's part of the problem, but another part of it is layering... today, we basically use the same operating systems, interfaces and stuff that we used 10 years ago. except they are now version 3294
[03:57] <__mikem> THe problem is, microsoft is trying to keep the newer versions of windows compatible with older versions of windows
[03:57] <LjL> which means layers over layers of compatibility, ugly patches around bugs, and so on have accumulated
[03:57] <__mikem> the win32 api is litered with examples of this
[03:57] <__mikem> for example "hinstance"
[03:58] <LjL> i don't think that's just a problem with MS, though i'll grant they're particularly "good" at it
[03:58] <__mikem> which is usually 0x00400000 for executable images
[03:58] <__mikem> good point
[03:58] <LjL> i'm sure it's a problem with gnu/linux as well
[03:58] <kosh> hmm I know that I need vastly more ram then I needed 10 years ago but I am in no way doing the same things
[03:58] <__mikem> Probably not as bad though
[03:58] <LjL> especially with desktop environments (no names please ;)
[03:58] <kosh> I am working with databases that are larger in size then the hard drives where 10 years ago and I have more ram then the hard drives where then also
[03:58] <blt> __mikem: Though what do you consider to be "fast" code. You can make all sorts of tradeoffs for speed at the sake of maintainability of resource usage, but where do you stop? What counts as fast?
[03:58] <__mikem> linux is just a better opperating
[03:58] <__mikem> system
[03:59] <kosh> LjL: the systems are in no way comparable
[03:59] <LjL> kosh: didn't say they were
[03:59] <__mikem> About the speed of a well writen Win32 App in C would be what I would like to aim for
[03:59] <kosh> LjL: 10 years ago you could not run many programs at the same time and they can't do even a tiny fraction of what modern software can
[03:59] <__mikem> maybe a bit slower but not much
[03:59] <blt> __mikem: Linux has kept backwards compatablity by having good APIs, and ignoring when having backwards compatability is a bad thing. And yes, we are doing vasly different thigns now which require more of everything..
[03:59] <__mikem> kosh, please don't go there, its just to ugly
[04:00] <blt> __mikem: Why?
[04:00] <LjL> blt: perhaps at "optimize the algorithm, not the code" ;) though i guess this makes little sense when one's talking about APIs and such...
[04:00] <__mikem> the way win95 handled multiple processes was horendous
[04:01] <blt> LjL: Exactly! A good algorithm in python is going to beat the crap out of a bad one in C. Languages don't really matter all that much. It's ideas that are the important bit.
[04:01] <kosh> __mikem: I know that for doing development I have 4 monitors and I have about 30 or so programs open right now, things like the ioslaves in kde save me a few hours per week in time
[04:01] <__mikem> yes, thats true, but try doing that on an old windows machine
[04:01] <kosh> __mikem: I could have a computer 10x more powerful and I could still use more
[04:01] <LjL> kosh: except that i said and meant doing the *same* things as 10 years ago... can i 1) load linux 2) let KDE or Gnome start 3) load KWord or Abiword or OOo or whatever and edit a document   ..... with 16 megs or RAM?
[04:01] <LjL> kosh: i could do this with *1* meg of RAM. and yes, it did multitask fairly nicely
[04:02] <kosh> LjL: run the versions from 10 years ago with the same size datasets then
[04:02] <__mikem> that would be interesting if we could get that legacy code to run
[04:02] <kosh> LjL: kword, abiword, gnome, kde etc are in no way comparable to the software of 10 years ago
[04:03] <blt> __mikem: Why that metric, a well written w32 C app? It seems rather arbitrary.
[04:03] <LjL> kosh: except that most of the things they did are the same things that i do now. perhaps we can call that features bloat?
[04:03] <kosh> fine you can call the features bloat
[04:03] <kosh> since I use the features I won't call them bloat
[04:04] <__mikem> Yes, but I am not to teribly specific with the speed of an app, but I don't want to see more tools with the poor performance of vb6
[04:04] <kosh> no software from 10 years ago that I ever found did url transparency, kde does and it saves me a massive ammount of time
[04:04] <LjL> kosh: with that metric, software will get infinitely bloated. for *any* given possible feature, you will find at least one user who'll make use of it
[04:04] <kosh> the language has very little to do with how fast the actual software runs
[04:04] <LjL> kosh: url transparency?
[04:05] <__mikem> no, but the design of the compiler will kosh
[04:05] <kosh> I have written stuff in bash that ran faster then a c++ program
[04:05] <kosh> most of the speed of the program is in the design of the program
[04:05] <__mikem> will, for trivial tasks, thats to be expected
[04:05] <kosh> not in the speed that it compiles to
[04:05] <__mikem> especially from the overhead of initialization
[04:05] <blt> I agree with kosh. Human time is expensive, hardware is not. Let features come in if it saves time. Also, he's entirely correct, again, about design being the most important aspect toward speed.
[04:05] <LjL> kosh: that's correct of course. and i claim that current software design basically stinks compared to N years ago
[04:05] <__mikem> which is where most of the lag comes form
[04:05] <kosh> for almost every task I have run into I have been able to write software in python that was written faster, ran faster and had far fewer bugs then the equiv c++ version
[04:06] <__mikem> well, python (I have never used it) from what I hear is a good language
[04:06] <__mikem> I will probably learn it when I get a chance
[04:06] <kosh> LjL: url transparency in kde means from any file open/save dialog box I have use sftp, ftp, http, https, webdav, webdavs etc etc to load and save
[04:06] <LjL> kosh: that's good. but then why doesn't that happen normally? *that*'s the whole point
[04:06] <bimberi> noirequus: ping! (need help in #ubuntu)
[04:06] <robotgeek> bimberi: here is at work
[04:06] <__mikem> brb
[04:06] <kosh> LjL: most c++ apps run darn slow, most c ones do also
[04:06] <LjL> kosh: oh, yes, i could definitely do that 10 years ago. though i just had FTP and HTTP among the ones you mentioned
[04:06] <robotgeek> he, err
[04:07] <blt> Python is a great language, but it runs much more "slowly" that a C app. But the language allows for more clear design, with fewer bugs.
[04:07] <kosh> LjL: so from any application you used you could open and save to those resources transparently?
[04:07] <LjL> kosh: yes
[04:07] <bimberi> robotgeek: yeah i know - just trying anything i can think of :/
[04:07] <robotgeek> he fixed it, i guess
[04:07] <LjL> kosh: i just needed a handler for the specific device, HTTP, FTP, disk or whatever
[04:07] <kosh> LjL: and what os would that be?
[04:07] <bimberi> :)
[04:08] <LjL> kosh: AmigaOS
[04:08] <kosh> blt: the speed of a language has very little to do with the speed of the program in most cases that I have run into
[04:08] <LjL> kosh: also, that wasn't specific to the "desktop environment" like it is now in KDE. it was part of the filing system
[04:09] <kosh> blt: for example while python may be a slower language if you are dealingwith images then the odds are most of the running time of the software will be in the image code which you will offload to a nice optimized library that lots of other software uses
[04:09] <__mikem> the language has nothing to do with it, its the assembly the compiler generates, and the quality of the code
[04:09] <LjL> kosh: i could type in the shell "copy HTTP:www.google.com/index.html Work:Documents/GoogleHome.html" for example
[04:09] <kosh> bit about 90% of the performance ends up being in 10% of the code
[04:09] <__mikem> did you know that 96% of the code in an mfc app is NEVER EVER ONCE executed
[04:10] <kosh> LjL: not the same thing, from the file dialog in any kde app I can just type sftp://username@server and hit enter and I can log in, autocomplete to where I am going and select a file for load and save
[04:10] <kosh> the problem is that most people that do things programming, cooking, driving cars etc suck badly at it and don't really want to learn
[04:11] <kosh> I have seen some horribly slow software written in python
[04:11] <LjL> kosh: but i could do that as well, i mentioned the shell because it does *not* work like that in KDE, but i could also use HTTP in a file dialog in any application. no auto-completion, though
[04:11] <_bill> hi yall
[04:11] <kosh> I have even helped some people speed up the software by a factor of a thousand with a few simple changes
[04:11] <LjL> __mikem: doesn't surprise me at all, especially when i see huge PocketPC apps that do basically nothing, and the equivalent Symbian apps taking like 20KB
[04:12] <__mikem> The thing that I would like to know is why does that code exist though?
[04:12] <_bill> I have kubuntu 5.10 64bit version...any one know why the JVM won't work?
[04:14] <blt> Goodnight all. It's been interesting. Thank you to those who tried to help.
[04:14] <robotgeek> blt: night
[04:14] <__mikem> good night blt
[04:14] <LjL> kosh: really, this brings to my mind another point concerting excessive layering... though not API layering this time, but filesystem layering. why do i have a filesystem in my OS, and then my KDE (or Gnome for that matter) superimposes *another* thing which looks and smells like a filesystem, but isn't quite a filesystem, and is different from the real filesystem? (and only works with KDE apps)
[04:15] <LjL> kosh: i even read people *advocating* filesystem hiding. that's just crazy, why not just make a good-looking filesystem hierarchy in the first place?
[04:15] <LjL> kosh: the answer is easy of course: tradition and backwards compatibility
[04:15] <LjL> kosh: precisely the same thing that, i think, ruins APIs
[04:16] <kosh> LjL: kde does it becaues not all operating systems provide the resources necessary
[04:16] <kosh> LjL: kde runs on a heck of a lot of things and the odds are good that kde4 will even be ported to windows
[04:17] <__mikem> http://liw.iki.fl/liw/texts/programming-truths.html some of these are really funny
[04:17] <kosh> LjL: the ioslaves though means I can open/save files to my rackspace server and many other transparently, I can just use sftp and don't end up spending my time with an sftp app to copy locally, edit, remember to copy back etc
[04:18] <thompa> !amarok
[04:18] <LjL> kosh: fine, but this way KDE takes up some (or many) of the functions of an operating system as well, which wasn't was KDE was intended to be. it all becomes a mess, with duplication of roles, duplication of features, and inconsistencies that are very apparent to the user
[04:18] <ubotu> amarok is, like, a music player for Linux and Unix with an intuitive interface. See http://amarok.kde.org ; amaroK's features: http://amarok.kde.org/content/view/51/1/
[04:18] <LjL> kosh: yes, but again, AmigaOS could very easily do that *inside* the "real" filesystem, no need for any additional layer mixed up with the GUI
[04:18] <__mikem> http://liw.iki.fl/liw/texts/programming-truths.html some of these are really funny
[04:18] <kosh> LjL: I can't think of many os that provide support for things like that
[04:19] <__mikem> what the
[04:19] <LjL> kosh: Linux does, in its weird ugly way
[04:19] <kosh> LjL: actually plan9 and linux just recently got the ability to do it
[04:19] <__mikem> I didnt type that
[04:19] <LjL> kosh: just mount your server somewhere, and it will
[04:19] <kosh> LjL: only very recently and bsd, solaris, aix, hpux, etc can't
[04:19] <LjL> kosh: i can even type "/ftp/ftp.something.com/blah" in linux, just like i did on AmigaOS, except with uglier syntax
[04:20] <__mikem> night
[04:20] <thompa> if you dont want all the options of kde there is always gnome
[04:20] <__mikem> when in gnome do as the ...
[04:20] <LjL> thompa: that's not the point, gnome has its "virtual file system" (VFS) as well
[04:20] <__mikem> lol
[04:21] <__mikem> I can't finish that pun, two painful
[04:21] <LjL> guess so
[04:21] <kosh> LjL: both of them developed a vfs layer since the systems they ran on did not have a common vfs layer, it makes portability far easier, the plan now is to work on merging the vfs layers they use into a common library
[04:21] <kosh> LjL: once that is finished then it can be merged down
[04:21] <thompa> where is latest amarok?
[04:21] <kosh> LjL: it really does make more sense to solve the problem at hand rather then try to design a perfect solution the first time
[04:21] <LjL> kosh: and it will still not really be "merged", because it won't work, for example, in a console
[04:22] <LjL> kosh: oh, that's an understandable point of view as well, for sure
[04:22] <kosh> LjL: the idea is that long term it will be put into a library that just about very program will use
[04:22] <kosh> LjL: even in the console
[04:23] <kosh> LjL: however since it was the kde and gnome developers that really wanted this feature since it saves such a large ammount of time in a gui they are the ones that did it first
[04:23] <julian> hey everybody
[04:23] <LjL> kosh: but, really, i don't think it has been done all that well (but then again, perhaps i was too used to amigaos ;) -- for example, in Amarok, i cannot use a Samba share as my collection directory. why? any user will try, fail, and wonder why all his life
[04:23] <kosh> __mikem: some problems are fixed by hardware, if you need to work with a large db no ammount of optimization will make it run on a machine without enough ram :)
[04:24] <julian> just running kubuntu for the first time. having some questions already
[04:24] <kosh> LjL: no idea on that, I have not used samba
[04:24] <__mikem> Well, thats granted, but there needs to be balance
[04:24] <LjL> kosh: also, files from samba or ftp or whatever get copied to the local disk first. that's unintuitive, and people wonder why it doesn't work the same way when they actually *mount* their samba share
[04:25] <julian> alright, nevermind
[04:25] <LjL> kosh: i guess it will do the same thing with any ioslave except "file://" (which, i guess, isn't really treated as such)
[04:25] <kosh> LjL: I mostly work with remote systems where the connection is encrypted like sftp and it does what I need for that
[04:25] <kosh> __mikem: yup there are lots of things to balance, you have to profile, see how much you can speed it up trivially, and then find out what the cost of the speed you need is vs the cost of the hardware at least for writing custom applications
[04:26] <LjL> kosh: yeah, in those applications that happen to support it correctly... which, seeing the Amarok case, aren't even just the KDE applications, but a *subset* of them
[04:26] <kosh> __mikem: if it iwll take 30K in time but only 5K in hardware then the hardware is cheaper
[04:26] <__mikem> Yeh, but hardware aint my problem, leave it to the hardware guys
[04:27] <kosh> LjL: I don't think the media layer in general handles remote resources since it tries to do stuff to files that those remote resources don't support
[04:27] <kosh> LjL: that is why there is not a common library yet that is pushed down, it still needs work
[04:27] <LjL> kosh: but, really, i think the problem with this "virtual file systems" thing lies with Linux and its monolithic architecture. if filesystem drivers didn't have to be part of the kernel, it would very easy to *download new filesystems on the fly*, and mount Samba, NFS, SFTP or whatever without any troubles at all
[04:28] <kosh> LjL: it is not amarok that is broken or the ioslaves that are broken
[04:28] <kosh> LjL: this has squat to do with linux, this has to do with working on any unix
[04:28] <__mikem> we have had a lot of people in here complaining about amarok
[04:28] <kosh> I like amarok, I use the xine output on it so I can get 7.1 audio
[04:28] <__mikem> I like Kaffine
[04:29] <kosh> LjL: why do you keep going after the idea that kde is somehow tied to linux?
[04:29] <LjL> kosh: if linux gave us an easy way to do that, KDE and Gnome could make use of it when running on Linux, and revert to "virtual" when running on system that don't have such features
[04:30] <thompa> ok so amarok 1.4 is only for dapper it seems
[04:30] <LjL> thompa: www.kubuntu.org
[04:30] <__mikem> LjL, sounds like how dirrectx works
[04:30] <kosh> LjL: wel linux only added an easy way to do it a few months ago, however writing software like that is harder
[04:30] <kosh> __mikem: must be why the old directx apps I have tried no longer work ;)
[04:31] <__mikem> lol yeh I can imagine
[04:31] <__mikem> DirectX code is Horendous to look at
[04:31] <__mikem> I tried learning it once, but It got so painful, after a while I said screw this
[04:31] <LjL> kosh: so, we're back to the quality of software, aren't we. anyway, i'm interested in this new stuff in linux, do you have a pointer?
[04:32] <kosh> software in general is hard to write, hard to debug
[04:32] <kosh> LjL: it is call fuse
[04:32] <kosh> LjL: let me find a link
[04:32] <thompa> LjL: thanks I found it, i had read the intro to this irc about amarok 1.4 beta
[04:32] <thompa> but im not going to run dapper
[04:32] <LjL> kosh: oh, fuse... it's a bit older than a few months i think, though perhaps it's only been added to the mainstream kernel recently
[04:33] <LjL> thompa: but 1.4 beta runs on *breezy*
[04:33] <kosh> http://kerneltrap.org/node/4517
[04:33] <kosh> LjL: yup only recently added to the maintstream kernel
[04:33] <kosh> LjL: fuse also has a fuse-kio module so you can mount any ioslave using fuse so it can be usable from the console
[04:34] <LjL> kosh: and make things even more convoluted than they already are... =) well i admit that will be useful, though convoluted
[04:34] <__mikem> brb got to pop my contact lenses
[04:34] <kosh> __mikem: and customers won't pay the time it takes to do stuff, they keep demanding more features in less time at less cost etc, something has got to give in that situation and it is almost always speed and quality
[04:35] <kosh> LjL: why is that more convoluted, the kio items are userspace filesystem drivers they are just normally only used by kde
[04:35] <kosh> LjL: now that the kernel has a way of doing userspace drivers someone made it so it could use ones that are already written
[04:36] <kosh> LjL: remember with modern software unless a feature is used you don't pay a memory cost for it since it won't be loaded off the disk
[04:36] <LjL> kosh: yes, it makes sense at the end of the day. though, i wonder, how tied to KDE are those drivers?
[04:36] <LjL> kosh: when i try to use, say, the SFTP kioslave from the console, will a KDE window pop up saying "copying file..."?
[04:37] <kosh> LjL: they are not tied to kde
[04:37] <__mikem> ok I am back
[04:37] <kosh> LjL: they where just written as part of the kde project
[04:37] <kosh> LjL: kde is pretty clean and modular
[04:37] <thompa> LjL: the web site says dapper for amarok, is there some other way to install it?
[04:38] <LjL> kosh: you know, i was just receintly thinking about using FUSE to get a versioning file system, there is one around
[04:38] <LjL> thompa: you're correct, my fault. i was sure i had read "breezy" earlier on today
[04:39] <thompa> needs a newer version of taglib.
[04:39] <thompa> you would think if they announce it here it would be for breezy
[04:40] <kosh> writing good software is very very hard which is why most of it does not even approach good
[04:41] <thompa> and what i like about kubuntu is that it presents kde in a nice way menus and all
[04:41] <LjL> thompa: if taglib is the only problem, then i would probably try compiling dapper's taglib into breezy. taglib doesn't depend on anything except the C libraries
[04:42] <thompa> im going to see if current amarok is sufficent first
[04:43] <robotgeek> thompa: yeah, it works well :)
[04:46] <LjL> night
[04:49] <zblach> the k panel died. how to resurrect?
[04:49] <robotgeek> zblach: alt + f2 , kicker
[04:49] <kosh> alt-f2 kicker
[04:50] <zblach> robotgeek,thanks
[04:53] <brydenn> bbl guys
[04:53] <brydenn> gotta make a windows xp HD ;)
[04:53] <brydenn> hold up.. question
[04:53] <brydenn> can i have a dual boot with 2 different HDs?
[04:54] <brydenn> like this one is Kubuntu... my slave will be Windows XP Pro
[04:54] <brydenn> can i have Grub ask me which one i want to boot to?
[04:56] <brydenn> oh come on... not all of you are idling
[04:57] <kosh> hmm
[04:57] <kosh> you can do it but I don't think you can do it with windows as the secondary drive
[04:57] <robotgeek> brydenn: i have no clue about grub
[04:57] <_aaron> hey... I'm having problems with su   and my apt-repository list
[04:57] <brydenn> damn
[04:58] <brydenn> i want Kubuntu to be the master
[04:58] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[04:58] <kosh> linux does not care what drive it boots off of
[04:58] <Snake__> brydenn: google around
[04:58] <kosh> however windows does care
[04:58] <_aaron> I added the nokia 770 repository using aptititude, and I think it pulled some incompatible stuff from it
[04:58] <Psi-Jack> That was the most annoying installation of Kubuntu I've had to deal with yet.
[04:58] <kosh> there are ways of working around it in grub but they are a pain
[04:58] <kosh> why was it annoying?
[04:59] <_aaron> and I can't remove the repository.. because my "su" doesn't seem to be working to get into aptitude
[04:59] <kwewu14> anyone know how to fix a failed to load nvidia kernel module when i startx?
[04:59] <_aaron> and I can't find the /etc/apt/apt.conf
[04:59] <Psi-Jack> For some reason, my new Kubuntu installation's startup, does /not/ bring up eth0. How do I fix that?
[05:00] <robotgeek> _aaron: dapper
[05:00] <kosh> brydenn: do you already have windows installed on the second drive?
[05:00] <brydenn> not yet kosh
[05:00] <brydenn> i'm gonna do it now though
[05:00] <brydenn> thats why i was gonna ask before i left
[05:00] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: in the control panel!
[05:00] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: it works!
[05:01] <brydenn> i'll figure it out Kosh
[05:01] <brydenn> :) ttyl
[05:01] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: .. I mean... youdon't have to do funky ifconfig stuff
[05:01] <Psi-Jack> _aaron: There is no X on that server box. X will not be involved either.
[05:01] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: or edit ... ok.. I thought you were running kubuntu
[05:01] <Psi-Jack> ifup eth0 works, to bring it up MANUALLY.
[05:01] <Psi-Jack> _aaron: I am. Installed using server-expert mode.
[05:01] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: etc/init.d/
[05:02] <kwewu14> anyone know how to fix a failed to load nvidia kernel module when i startx?
[05:02] <sniff> is anyone able to give me a little advice please?
[05:02] <_aaron> or rc-update something like that if it's similar to debian
[05:02] <kwewu14> i already reinstalled nvidia-glx
[05:02] <sniff> I'd really like to know what "configure: error: --enable-application=APP is required" means and how to fix it?
[05:02] <robotgeek> Psi-Jack: sudo <edit> /etc/network/interfaces and add auto eth0
[05:02] <Psi-Jack> update-rc.d?
[05:02] <Psi-Jack> robotgeek: Hmm, auto eth0?
[05:03] <wC> hi
[05:03] <robotgeek> Psi-Jack: that will bring it up at boot
[05:03] <thompa> how do you reload packages with adept?
[05:03] <Psi-Jack> robotgeek: I see. No real particular place I need to put it, is there? heh
[05:03] <_aaron> Psi-Jack: yes,
[05:03] <thompa> just curious, usually i do apt-get update
[05:03] <sniff> thompa: click on FETCH PACKAGES
[05:03] <wC> awhile back someone told me a string to create my own .deb file from source..... but i had made an alias to make it easier and i forgot the command(s)
[05:03] <wC> anybody know them?
[05:04] <Ashex> hey
[05:04] <thompa> sniff: fetch updates?  ok
[05:04] <robotgeek> ubotu: tell wC about checkinstall
[05:04] <Ashex> I got a question
[05:04] <kwewu14> Psi-Jack: was that to me?
[05:04] <Psi-Jack> robotgeek: Hmmm. Looking on my own system, and my other server, there is no auto eth0...
[05:04] <wC> thanks robotgeek
[05:04] <Ashex> How would I go about installing Kubuntu to a usb sotrage device?
[05:04] <wC> sounds familiar, i think that was it :-d
[05:04] <sniff> thompa: yeah, click this after your change the sources.list for example
[05:04] <robotgeek> Ashex: it's pretty complicated with breezy
[05:04] <_aaron> YaY... I got aptitude running in a console... but I can't find the way to edit the apt config file, as in the X mode
[05:04] <Psi-Jack> kwewu14: Did I say your nick, at all, in any of my recent conversation? :-/
[05:05] <wC> yep that was it, thanks so much man
[05:05] <sniff>  I'd really like to know what "configure: error: --enable-application=APP is required" means and how to fix it?
[05:05] <Psi-Jack> robotgeek: Why do neither of the other two systems I have, running Kubuntu, have auto eth0?
[05:06] <Ashex> robotgeek: how complicated?
[05:06] <robotgeek> Psi-Jack: weird
[05:06] <Psi-Jack> And, eth0 is brought up, on both.
[05:06] <robotgeek> Ashex: does you computer support booting from a USB drive?
[05:06] <Ashex> robotgeek: yup, I've used syslinux to boot feather linux off a thumbdrive
[05:06] <robotgeek> Psi-Jack: i am lost, i thought that it was required. <sigh>
[05:07] <Psi-Jack> robotgeek: BTW, that system has a flakey CD-ROM drive, so I barely got Kubuntu installed. LOL. It finally did, but it did not get to properly post-install, so I did apt-get install ubuntu-base after I got the network up. ;)
[05:07] <thompa> !dvd
[05:07] <ubotu> somebody said dvd was DVDs may require libdvdcss2, which is available at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[05:07] <robotgeek> Ashex: this syslinux is a CD?
[05:08] <Ashex> robotgeek: nope, just a bootstrap
[05:08] <robotgeek> Ashex: yeah, but a bootstrap cd
[05:08] <Ashex> robotgeek: I don't believe so
[05:08] <sniff> thompa: did it work ok>?
[05:09] <thompa> no sources dont work
[05:09] <robotgeek> Ashex: does it allow you to make changes to where you can boot off ?
[05:09] <Ashex> robotgeek: I didn't use a cd, when I set it all up I just ran syslinux against my thumbdrive
[05:09] <thompa> got to find some new ones on there
[05:09] <sniff> your souces are wrong?
[05:09] <thompa> well it says some are slow or may not work
[05:09] <sniff> do you want to do a pastebin of your sources file?
[05:09] <robotgeek> Ashex: hmm, i am lost. how does this bootstrap thing work?
[05:10] <sniff> thompa: paste here one of the internet sources
[05:10] <_aaron> So folks, where is my apt.config
[05:10] <sniff> thompa: that is slow
[05:10] <thompa> deb http://mirror2.ubuntulinux.nl/ breezy-seveas all
[05:10] <Ashex> robotgeek: syslinux is just a MBR that I installed on the thumbdrive
[05:10] <sniff> mm
[05:10] <sniff> is there another mirror available for that one?
[05:10] <robotgeek> Ashex: well, if your system can boot from a external USB device, it should be pretty easy
[05:10] <sniff> personally i don't use it
[05:11] <thompa> yes there are like a dozen mirrors
[05:11] <Ashex> robotgeek: that's what I'm hoping, I just burned the kubuntu dvd and don't have much space on my laptop
[05:11] <Ashex> the DVD image has ATI video drivers, correct?
[05:11] <robotgeek> Ashex: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=80811
[05:12] <robotgeek> Ashex: i have no idea, i dont' use ATI/Nvdia
[05:12] <Ashex> >.<
[05:12] <Ashex> robotgeek: I think it does, I was told Ubuntu DVD has both ati and nvidia.
[05:12] <robotgeek> Ashex: cool, i'll keep that in mind
[05:14] <sniff> hey guys, how do i change the default webbrowser in kubuntu to firefox
[05:15] <robotgeek> kcontrol -> Components -> Web Browser
[05:15] <sniff> ha!
[05:15] <sniff> ok!!!
[05:16] <thompa> oh! i did not add sources correctly
[05:16] <sniff> oh yes!! thank robotgeek
[05:17] <sniff> robotgeek: byt the way i don't have kcontrol
[05:17] <zblach> hey, what's good for ripping cds?
[05:17] <sniff> but got the SYTEM SETTINGS -> USER ACCOUNTS
[05:17] <robotgeek> sniff: yes you do, alt + f2, kcontrol :)
[05:18] <thompa> now its working, i forgot to add "all" to list of sections
[05:18] <sniff> robotgeek: ah thanksin bittornado i
[05:19] <zblach> i thought KsCD was for ripping
[05:19] <sniff> robotgeek: bittornado keeps giving me an error, "problem connecting to tracker - timeout exceeded" any idea about this please?
[05:19] <robotgeek> sniff: nope
[05:19] <sniff> mmm, anyone know about this?
[05:20] <sniff> i have like 0 experience with bittornado
[05:20] <robotgeek> sniff: do you have port forwarding setup correctly?
[05:20] <sniff> mmmm
[05:20] <sniff> i'm not on nat or using firewall
[05:20] <sniff> do i still need to worry about this?
[05:21] <robotgeek> nope
[05:24] <sniff> i got one other thing bugging me
[05:25] <robotgeek> go ahead sniff
[05:25] <luisito> hello
[05:25] <robotgeek> hey luisito
[05:25] <sniff> robotgeek: everytime i restart my computer I must open a terminal and type "pon dsl-provider" to enable my internet connection. When I ran pppoeconf I told it to connect automatically/
[05:25] <Ashex> oh man
[05:25] <Ashex> this is going to be fun
[05:25] <robotgeek> sniff: sorry, i have no clue about that!
[05:26] <sniff> mmmm :(
[05:26] <Ashex> I've got 2 partitions right now on my external
[05:26] <luisito> how can I use the 1280x1024 resolution? I don't have it as an option, just at 1024x768. And my monitor can handle it.
[05:26] <Ashex> I'm going to resize one
[05:26] <Ashex> so I'll have 3
[05:26] <Ashex> :)
[05:26] <sniff> is there a startup file in kde, which you can add things like this to?
[05:27] <robotgeek> luisito, 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' in a terminal
[05:28] <furntree> anyonek know how to get a radeon x850 driver to work
[05:32] <Ashex> anyone happen to have a preference on windows partitioners?
[05:32] <Hobbsee> sure, the installer disk seems to work pretty well - kubuntu installer
[05:33] <Ashex> I need to resize a partition first
[05:33] <prospero2006> whenever I click on an mp3, it always opens with audacity. Any help?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> kubuntu installer resizes
[05:34] <Ashex> hookay, despite my paranoia on uses kubuntu to resize, I'll try it :P
[05:34] <Snake__> prospero2006: give me a moment, ill write out directions
[05:34] <prospero2006> Thanks snake, Not sure how to pm you
[05:35] <ownerx> i managed to fix it so all the media show up in media://
[05:35] <Ashex> . /msg username message
[05:35] <Ashex> or use /query to open a window
[05:36] <Snake__> prospero2006: Open konqueror --> Click settings --> click Configure konqueror --> click "File Associations" on the side --> in the search field type "MP3" --> Open MP3, and then move the application you want to use to the top of the list
[05:36] <prospero2006> thanks snake
[05:36] <Snake__> Yep
[05:38] <Ashex> defragging takes forever :/
[05:40] <thompa> !mplayer
[05:40] <ubotu> mplayer is, like, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MplayerInstallHowto  For compiling, see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=31061
[05:40] <ownerx> !klik
[05:40] <ubotu> hmm... klik is at  http://dot.kde.org/1126867980/
[05:41] <thompa> hmm where is mplayer?
[05:42] <thompa> universe seems to be enabled
[05:43] <thompa> is there something that supports widescreen format?
[05:54] <Snake__> hry Kamping_Kaiser
[05:55] <Snake__> hey* too :)
[05:56] <Red_Herring> http://rj.selfip.com/myprograms.php
[05:56] <Red_Herring> ^suggestions?
[05:57] <dev_nu11> do you have to defrag an ext3 filesystem?
[05:57] <dev_nu11> or perforam any kind of maintenance
[05:58] <thompa> !xine
[05:58] <ubotu> thompa: Some people juggle geese. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[05:58] <Snake__> dev_nu11: good question
[05:59] <thompa> i cant seem to get kaffeine to play movies, cant find mplayer, vlc wont play widescreen
[05:59] <Snake__> Firetech: This question gets asked a lot. Linux filesystems defragment themselves automatically - human intervention isn't needed.  Linux filesystems defragment themselves automatically - human intervention isn't needed. But to make it work properly, you do need to be sure that you keep some empty space (about 20%) on your partitions.
[06:00] <thompa> how do you enable universe repos in kubuntu?
[06:00] <Snake__> !sources
[06:00] <ubotu> To enable Universe and Multiverse see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto - Official sources.lists here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6047 (Breezy) or http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6666 (Dapper) see also !easysource
[06:00] <Snake__> robotgeek_away: there ya go
[06:00] <Snake__> ARGHHH
[06:00] <thompa> thats for ubuntu
[06:00] <Snake__> thompa:
[06:00] <Snake__> thats for you
[06:01] <thompa> adept shows universe enabled
[06:01] <Snake__> thompa: then update and it should work
[06:01] <thompa> but i cant find mplayer
[06:02] <Snake__> thompa: I would help, but I got to get some rest, sorry :(
[06:02] <thompa> thats ok
[06:02] <Snake__> Its midnight here, got to be up at 5 :)
[06:03] <bimberi> thompa: mplayer is in multiverse
[06:04] <thompa> bimberi: hi, so do i just add mutiverse to some of these repos
[06:04] <bimberi> thompa: yes, wherever you see universe basically
[06:05] <thompa> ok thanks, thats simple
[06:05] <bimberi> thompa: hi btw :)
[06:06] <thompa> bimberi: what i want to do is watch something in widescreen
[06:06] <thompa> or something that has that option
[06:06] <bimberi> thompa: yes, i've seen that, i know nothing of it though :|
[06:06] <bimberi> mplayer is probably a good thing to try though
[06:07] <dev_nu11> Snake|Sleep:  thanks
[06:08] <thompa> ok thanks.
[06:17] <paulproteus> Riddell: Bug with your Amarok packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency.
[06:17] <paulproteus> Use pbuilder! (-;
[06:17] <paulproteus> But more seriously, do fix the build-depends.  That'd rock. (-:
[06:24] <bur[n] er_> anyone know how to get a USB device to show up in media:/ ?
[06:24] <robotgeek> bur[n] er_: hey
[06:24] <bur[n] er_> hi robotgeek :)
[06:30] <rich0rd> bur[n] er_: does dmsg or /var/log/messages show anything?
[06:30] <bur[n] er_> says stuff about sda1
[06:30] <bur[n] er_> but /media/sda1 is non-existant
[06:30] <rich0rd> #define stuff
[06:31] <rich0rd> is not claimed by any driver?
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.729000]  SCSI device sda: 251008 512-byte hdwr sectors (129 MB)
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.732000]  sda: Write Protect is off
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.732000]  sda: Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.733000]  sda: assuming drive cache: write through
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.733000]   sda: sda1
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.740000]  sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi removable disk sda
[06:31] <bur[n] er_> [4485677.766000]  sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
[06:32] <bur[n] er_> usb-storage driver
[06:32] <bur[n] er_> it's like it's not automounted
[06:33] <robotgeek> bur[n] er_: yeah, that happens i think. i dunno why
[06:33] <robotgeek> bur[n] er_: kdedmediamanager or something like that
[06:33] <bur[n] er_> it works if i mount it by hand
[06:34] <rich0rd> oh i thought it was not recognized by the driversystem at all
[06:34] <robotgeek> bur[n] er_: i think it's a known bug, look on malone
[06:34] <robotgeek> rich0rd: it will show up in /media, but not in media:// in konq
[06:34] <bur[n] er_> no no, just the automagical mount stuff for KDE isn't working
[06:34] <bur[n] er_> it doesn't show up in /media for me either
[06:34] <bur[n] er_> i had to mkdir /media/usb && mount /dev/sda1 /media/usb
[07:04] <supernix> well I got screwed on my update
[07:04] <supernix> I updated to breezy from hoary but something went wrong and when I rebooted poof no more KDE
[07:05] <Ashex> Geez, Defragging an external takes forever
[07:05] <bur[n] er_> supernix: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg maybe?
[07:06] <supernix> that would have been nice to no as I could only think of doing a reinstall regretably and lost all my old information
[07:06] <supernix> err *know
[07:07] <ownerx> upgrades are often messy
[07:07] <ownerx> between major releases
[07:07] <ownerx> the dapper one will be messy i bet
[07:08] <bur[n] er_> ownerx: i don't think so
[07:08] <bur[n] er_> ownerx: so far, nothing "drastic"
[07:09] <ownerx> i think ill do a fresh install when it comes out
[07:09] <ownerx> because its 800+ mb to upgrade anyway
[07:10] <ownerx> with 1400+ packages upgraded
[07:14] <bur[n] er_> anyway, bed time... night
[07:16] <sniff> bur[n] er_: my usb was like this too, but after a SAFE UPDATE in adept and retart my computer it works perfectly!!
[07:17] <sniff> make sure you do this and delte your manual entries in fstab
[07:23] <_tac> alguien habka espaol?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> !es
[07:25] <ubotu> Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda.
[07:26] <kosh> I speak english, bad english, python, a little c++ and a few others ;)
[07:29] <johan> hello
[07:29] <johan> any indonesian here?
[07:32] <johan> hellooo..
[07:32] <ownerx> are you indonesian?
[07:32] <johan> yup
[07:32] <johan> u?
[07:35] <johan> i need help from ubuntu expert...
[07:36] <ownerx> !in
[07:36] <ubotu> ownerx: Syntax error in line 1. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[07:38] <sniff> mmmm
[07:38] <rich0rd> nnnn
[07:38] <sniff> any ideas on why all my movies appeared washed out and lack colour and definition?
[07:38] <rich0rd> monitor?
[07:39] <darth_chatri> is oo2 a dependency of kubuntu-desktop?
[07:39] <robotgeek> darth_chatri: kubuntu-desktop is a meta package, to get all the stuff your system needs
[07:39] <kosh> sniff: movies you made or movies you got some other way?
[07:40] <darth_chatri> but if i want to remove oo2, its removing kubuntu-desktop as well
[07:40] <sniff> like my downloads
[07:40] <sniff> i know how they should look like cos they work fine in wind**s
[07:40] <robotgeek> darth_chatri: sure, no problems
[07:41] <darth_chatri> robotgeek: so its ok if kubuntu-desktop gets removed? will it removed other packages that are part of the meta package?
[07:42] <kosh> hmm I have never seen a visual quality difference between windows and linux for videos
[07:42] <robotgeek> darth_chatri: it's a meta package, it doesn't really do anything but install stuff
[07:42] <kosh> sniff: I recommend exorcism
[07:43] <darth_chatri> robotgeek: ok, thanks. but will removing the metapackage orphan the others?
[07:44] <robotgeek> darth_chatri: they will be "orphaned" anyways if you did not install with aptitude
[07:44] <darth_chatri> robotgeek: i installed with apt-get, and removing with apt-get
[07:44] <robotgeek> darth_chatri: nope, you need "debfoster"
[07:45] <supernix> what do you have to have installed for Kaffience to play mpg files ?
[07:45] <robotgeek> supernix, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[07:45] <robotgeek> mpg's should play out of the box, though
[07:45] <quinn> mpeg ain't restricted dude
[07:45] <quinn> my guess?  you have a bad movie file
[07:46] -RobLevin:#kubuntu- We are doing some upgrades you might want to type /server irc.freenode.net to the newer servers. Thanks.
[07:46] <rich0rd> supernix: maybe the colorsettings for this resolution are not good?
[07:47] <rich0rd> i never had any problems with movies (except the wmf "format")
[07:47] <kosh> what kind of monitor are you using sniff?
[07:48] <crimsun> now why did z@tor/session/x-59ecf073efcfd2e9 just notice "We are doing some upgrades you might want to type /server irc.freenode.net to the newer servers. Thanks."?
[07:48] <sniff> kosh: what is exorcism?
[07:49] <kosh> sniff: a joke :)
[07:49] <robotgeek> crimsun: i have no idea, isn't he the guy with freenode
[07:49] <sniff> ah
[07:49] <sniff> :(
[07:49] <sniff> hmmm
[07:49] <sniff> they look very low definition and the colour is really bland
[07:50] <sniff> i'm using the 1280x800 lcd built onto my sony laptop
[07:50] <sniff> could it be graphics drivers?
[07:50] <sniff> i got some intel linux drivers for the graphics but i dunno how to install them
[07:51] <kosh> sniff: what resolution is the lcd's native res and what res are you running it at?
[07:52] <crimsun> robotgeek: no, the real Rob's grammar is much more precise, and he has his own cloak.
[07:52] <sniff> 1280x800 is the native and that's what i'm running
[07:52] <sniff> kosh:
[07:53] <kosh> ok
[07:53] <sniff> even some of the movies look like they have interlacing problems, that are not apparent in win**ws
[07:54] <rich0rd> got w32codecs?  i am not sure if this will help
[07:54] <sniff> yes
[07:54] <sniff> done all that
[07:54] <sniff> even used automatix to help just incase i did it wrong
[07:56] <furntree> i have a question
[07:56] <robotgeek> !automatix
[07:56] <ubotu> automatix is unsafe, it overwrites configuration files, and does things like "echo -e 'ynYn'" that are considered risky. Please do not use it. There are alternative applications, but it's often best to read the documentation.
[07:58] <sniff> mmm to be quite honest i don't really like automatix, because I can't see what it's doing. I like to try to do things myself, but it didhelp me out with getting codec installed
[07:58] <kosh> I don't even know what automatix is :)
[07:59] <robotgeek> kosh: good for you :)
[07:59] <robotgeek> sniff: good for you, but be warned
[07:59] <kosh> I don't even see it in apt-cache search
[08:00] <robotgeek> kosh: it's not in the repositories for a reason
[08:01] <sniff> well
[08:01] <sniff> has it done irrepairable damage?
[08:01] <robotgeek> sniff: nope
[08:02] <sniff> so after it's finished my system should be "safe"?
[08:02] <sniff> i don't like it has changed my sources.list
[08:02] <sniff> that pisses me off
[08:03] <robotgeek> sniff: make sure you read what you do, always.
[08:04] <sniff> bad landuage?
[08:05] <robotgeek> sniff: i meant "don't run scripts etc etc, especially when you don't know what they do
[08:08] <sniff> yes i know..... it's just that so many people said it was worth while
[08:08] <sniff> i'm a complete n00b so i welcome anything that will help make my  life a little easier
[08:08] <sniff> even using it not everything works
[08:09] <sniff> i got video playback problems, internet that won't connect, and an OSD that won't display
[08:10] <robotgeek> sniff: hmm, i understand
[08:10] <robotgeek> sniff: you only learn if it doesn't work and you get it to work :)
[08:11] <sniff> yeah that's totally right and that's the reason why i can do *anything* in windows
[08:11] <UFO> wow... was just looking the xgl system... its amazing... but works full only with gnome
[08:11] <sniff> now i see how much linux has come along i feel my time with windows is up
[08:11] <robotgeek> more eyecandy to eat my CPU cycles, lol
[08:11] <sniff> it's just that my laptop is a little awkward for linux to handle
[08:12] <sniff> i got problems to solve the last thing i wanna do is spend hours manually installing stuff just so i can hear mp3s etc. So i used automatix as a break. DOn't like it but i don't have the time
[08:13] <robotgeek> sniff, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[08:13] <robotgeek> it has all the things, in one page
[08:13] <sniff> yeah  i followed that already
[08:13] <sniff> didn't quite get everything working
[08:13] <robotgeek> sniff: hmm, okay
[08:14] <sniff> hey i really wanna know, instead of installing packages using apt-get install is it possible to save them, so then i can use them in an offline install?
[08:14] <sniff> i wanna change my mums system to kubuntu but she don't have internet
[08:14] <sniff> well dialup
[08:15] <robotgeek> sniff: yeah, take a look at the apt-zip/apt-move howto on the wiki, search for it
[08:16] <sniff> ok
[08:16] <sniff> !apt-zip
[08:16] <ubotu> I haven't a clue, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, sniff
[08:17] <sniff> i followed the wiki for install ff 1.5 - it's so good!
[08:17] <robotgeek> yup. i got mine installed that way too
[08:18] <kosh> I prefer to just use konqueror
[08:18] <sniff> i read that's it's to difficult for them to backport into breezy, i don't understand why when i installed so easy
[08:18] <kosh> I find it works better most of the time
[08:18] <kosh> sniff: you are not running gnome
[08:18] <sniff> i tried to compile my own ff 1,5 by hand but it got some error :(
[08:18] <sniff> no kde
[08:18] <kosh> however it causes some problems with gnome
[08:18] <sniff> kosh: why?
[08:18] <kosh> that is why it can't just be stuck in
[08:19] <sniff> well i needed to compile it myself so that it didn't conflict with SCIM but it didn't compile :(
[08:19] <sniff> Title Search: "apt-zip"
[08:19] <sniff> 0 results of about 8037 pages. (0.23 seconds)
[08:19] <sniff> robotgeek: where is this info in the wiki?
[08:21] <robotgeek> sniff: text search please
[08:22] <kosh> sniff: if you compiled it yourself and stuck it in /usr/bin then it still conflicts it is just that the system does not know it conflicts anymore so it can't warn
[08:22] <brydenn> hey kosh: does WINE support Adobe Photoshop CS2?
[08:23] <kosh> brydenn: not even a slight idea on that one
[08:23] <sniff> robotgeek: doesn't appear in text search either
[08:23] <robotgeek> sniff: okay, give me a moment here
[08:23] <brydenn> eh ok thanks kosh
[08:24] <kosh> brydenn: wine is not something I use sorry
[08:25] <brydenn> yah i know
[08:25] <brydenn> but i love Adobe
[08:25] <brydenn> and Gimp just aint gonna take its place... ever
[08:25] <sniff> adobe is totally gay man
[08:26] <brydenn> stfu sniff
[08:26] <brydenn> lol
[08:26] <sniff> although gimp can't take it's place
[08:26] <sniff> use fireworks or something
[08:26] <brydenn> all i see is support for Photoshop 7
[08:26] <brydenn> nothing higher :(
[08:26] <brydenn> actually
[08:26] <brydenn> i'd much rather use a vector program like Illustrator
[08:26] <brydenn> much better :)
[08:26] <sniff> although now adobe has taken over macromedia so i guess studi is going to turn into a piece of bloated shit
[08:27] <brydenn> hehe yah well windows is known for its bloat-ware
[08:27] <brydenn> bbl guys :)
[08:27] <kosh> I write software, I don't do graphics, word processors etc
[08:27] <sniff> so what can u do?
[08:27] <kosh> I care about coding editors, debugging etc
[08:27] <sniff> adobe only works on mac or windows
[08:28] <sniff> i won't argue the point that adobe apps are fantastic but they are incredibly bloated
[08:28] <kosh> actually for many tasks the gimp can replace photoshop
[08:28] <kosh> heck for some of the things I watch people do in photoshop it would be easier to use imagmagick
[08:28] <sniff> and now they've got all this update crap going on and secretly loading daemons and services in your windows installation/. I takes me half a day to clean up the computer after an adobe install
[08:29] <kosh> I have watched people crop and scale hundreds of images one by one and they all where cropped and scaled the exact same way
[08:29] <echox> yo