[00:09] <wallyworld> thumper: everyone is busy fixing CI issues, or away on leave... i'd love to land this today https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11058
[01:20] <thumper> wallyworld: I'll look
[01:41] <thumper> wallyworld: I've got a question for ya
[01:42] <thumper> apiserver/facades/agent/uniter/uniter.go:1478
[01:42] <thumper> if err is nil, we still log
[01:42] <thumper> we got a lot of those error logs during my scale testing
[01:42] <thumper> it seems that we should log if err != nil, but not if there is no error
[01:43] <thumper> does that sound right?
[02:00] <wallyworld> thumper: looking at code
[02:05] <hpidcock> wallyworld: looks like the jujud-versions.yaml works fine with build number https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/aCgSCcrp/
[02:06] <wallyworld> thumper: so in theory, we should always know the address of the machine the unit is running on, so we should always be able to set the address info. for k8s, that's not always the case. for iaas, we either use the public address for cmr or fall back to the private one if needed. so if we are logging that we need to understand why
[02:07] <thumper> wallyworld: I saw it a huge number of times in my scale testing
[02:07] <thumper> there was no error
[02:07] <wallyworld> which i think means we don't have a unit private address whic seems weird
[02:08] <wallyworld> we could drop to debug but we'd want to understand what's happening, hence it was done a sa warning
[02:09] <thumper> well, the message gives us no info
[02:09] <thumper> it just says : can't do it: <nil>
[02:09] <wallyworld> it can't - all it knows is that there's no unit address
[02:09] <thumper> so not really useful
[02:10] <wallyworld> it may be that the unit enters scope before the address is know
[02:10] <wallyworld> in which case the default relation data will be unpopulated
[02:11] <wallyworld> it may be that only old charms relay on that default data
[02:11] <wallyworld> as new charms should be using network-get
[02:11] <wallyworld> so dropping the severity may be ok
[02:12] <wallyworld> hpidcock: it looks like you created a build yaml by hand with the correct sha?
[02:13] <hpidcock> yeah, testing what the snap would do
[02:14] <wallyworld> look ok then
[02:14] <wallyworld> i think
[02:14] <hpidcock> yep, just testing without build number as well now
[02:15] <wallyworld> thumper: so charms should be resiliant to delayed address info - they need to handle it when the address info is not known up front, especially for k8s charms. it's just that historically they haven't catered for this and expected  juju to always seed the relation data with private-address
[02:15] <wallyworld> so i think we can  consider this as not something worth a warning
[02:15] <wallyworld> and if charms break that's on them to fix
[02:15] <thumper> hmm, ok
[02:16] <wallyworld> i mean, it is possible a relation can be formed and the address info is not yet known
[02:16] <wallyworld> there's not much we can do about that
[02:16] <wallyworld> especially for say k8s charms like gitlab
[02:17] <wallyworld> where the relation comes up and then that triggers the pod starting
[02:17] <wallyworld> and then we get the address
[02:25] <wallyworld> thumper: ta for review. were you going to drop the warning to a debug or something given for many k8s charms it will just be noise, and even for iaas charms, they could aguably not expect to rely on that info
[02:26] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm just prepping the PR
[02:27] <thumper> wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11064
[02:27] <wallyworld> looking
[02:36] <wallyworld> thumper: lgtm, we have found in a few places stuff hitting not found during teardown. whack-o-mole
[02:36] <thumper> wallyworld: yeah
[02:43] <thumper> wallyworld: I keep filing bugs thinking tlm could fix this...
[02:44] <wallyworld> perhaps he could, tag them as bitesize or something
[03:43] <tlm> I only want big ones :)
[04:17] <wallyworld> hpidcock: have you managed to check all the build num fix scenarios?
[04:18] <hpidcock> wallyworld: I've found a snag, the versioned tools dir
[04:19] <hpidcock> testing just having SharedToolsDir return the dir without buildnumber
[04:19] <wallyworld> ah yes
[04:21] <hpidcock> I'm not sure how the uploaded tools are unpacked. Does the bootstrapping client scp them over and untar it?
[04:21] <wallyworld> essentially yeah
[04:22] <hpidcock> including simplestreams?
[04:22] <hpidcock> or does simplestreams just get wget'd onto the machine?
[04:23] <wallyworld> see github.com/juju/juju/cloudconfig/userdatacfg_unix.go
[04:23] <wallyworld> line 346
[04:23] <wallyworld> that's where the dir is first created
[04:24] <wallyworld> and just underneath is where the tools are downloaded
[04:24] <wallyworld> the url in the tools struct is i think streams.c.c
[04:25] <wallyworld> at bootstrap anyway
[04:25] <wallyworld> after that the controller caches them
[12:29] <stickupkid> manadart, https://github.com/juju/description/pull/70
[12:29] <stickupkid> manadart, this should prevent the panic when migrating consumers
[12:30] <manadart> stickupkid: Looking.
[12:33] <stickupkid> ta
[12:33] <stickupkid> This is blocking me from testing the migration error, so hopefully I'll be able to see what's the cause soon
[13:39] <Laney> hey jujuers
[13:40] <rick_h> hey Laney
[13:40] <Laney> got a question for you!
[13:40] <Laney> Is there a way to check if an application has an upgrade available? I've got a `set -e` shell script which is running `juju upgrade-charm` over all of them, but it bails out if there is no update available because that causes an exit 1.
[13:41] <rick_h> Laney:  juju status shows that there's an upgrade available
[13:42] <rick_h> Laney:  the controller checks once a day
[13:42] <Laney> ah, can I make it check in that script then?
[13:42] <rick_h> yea, I'm just trying to dbl check where that shows up
[13:42] <Laney> it's usually that I release a new version of the charm and want to run this upgrade-all-the-things script to roll it out
[13:43] <Laney> once a day wouldn't be great given that :-)
[13:43] <Laney> or maybe there's a better way of doing all of this
[13:43] <rick_h> Laney:  so juju status --format=yaml and     can-upgrade-to: cs:haproxy-55
[13:44] <rick_h> Laney:  so I'd update your script to run that once a day, iterate the applications in the YAML, and check for the "can-upgrade-to"
[13:46] <Laney> alright, thanks!
[13:47] <rick_h> Laney:  no problem, let me know how it goes maybe if you've got a cool script drop it in discourse for folks to see


[14:44] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 2 starting in ~15 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[20:03] <xnox> who sheppards bugs assigned to "Ubuntu (no package)" and assigns more or less correct packages?
[20:04] <TheLordOfTime> xnox:  any bugsquader
[20:04] <TheLordOfTime> xnox:  why?
[20:04] <xnox> TheLordOfTime: cool thanks.
[20:04] <TheLordOfTime> (we don't always watch that area, though, 24/7)


[05:52] <LaserJock> hi Nubae
[06:17] <Nubae> hi there
[06:24] <LaserJock> Nubae: do you use moodle 0.9?
[06:42] <Nubae> 1.9 u mean
[06:42] <LaserJock> Nubae: yeah
[06:42] <Nubae> yeah, though been using 2.0 for some clients...
[06:42] <LaserJock> Nubae: but it's better than 1.8
[06:42] <LaserJock> ?
[06:42] <Nubae> I believe the version that debian is bundling is still old as can be
[06:43] <Nubae> well, its about a good 2 and half years behind the times
[06:43] <LaserJock> right
[06:43] <Nubae> doubt anyone will be installing it knowingly
[06:45] <LaserJock> well, I was trying to figure out if I should merge 1.8 or wait for 1.9.4
[06:45] <LaserJock> and I decided to go for 1.9.4
[06:45] <Nubae> hmm, not that much is gonna change in the incrementals, but perhaps it will be better to wait
[06:45] <Nubae> yah
[06:46] <LaserJock> so I've spent the last couple days trying to figure it out
[06:46] <LaserJock> I've been through ~ 20 CVEs
[06:50] <Nubae> yah moodle is a bit of a monster
[06:51] <LaserJock> it's especially fun since I don't know moodle or PHP
[06:51] <LaserJock> but I pretty much got it all done
[17:05] <berriop> heyyy, anyone have ever tried the mustation thing or the ncomputing one????
[17:53] <LaserJock> morning all
[17:58] <LaserJock> Nubae: you get a chance to work on a Universe app list?
[22:09] <LaserJock> phew
[22:09]  * LaserJock made it back from funeral
[22:09] <LaserJock> good thing for SUVs


[08:59] <lpotter> do scopes use QNetwork & friends?
[09:05] <tsdgeos> lpotter: depends what you mean by scopes
[09:06] <tsdgeos> the scope backend no (afaik)
[09:06] <tsdgeos> the scope ui (i.e. the unity8-dash) yes
[09:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, hey, so bug #1540490 is getting some heat
[09:12] <ubot5`> bug 1540490 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "app icons getting their top cut off (Ubuntu Touch)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540490
[09:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, if you could please prio it (you were able to reproduce?)
[09:13] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yes i can reproduce it
[09:13] <tsdgeos> it's somewhat strange since we have not changed that code so no idea why it's happening now
[09:13] <tsdgeos> i have a "slight" idea of what may be the problem
[09:13] <tsdgeos> but that's still far from actually producing a fix
[09:14] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ack, keep me posted please
[09:14] <tsdgeos> sure
[09:17] <Saviq> dednick, hey, so people were happy with the form factor changes, with the exception that they excepted their state to be set to what's real (so if they got fullscreen, they would like to know)
[09:17] <Saviq> I'll test now to see if I can repro your issue
[09:29] <dednick> Saviq: um. who would like to know? clients?
[09:30] <Saviq> dednick, yes
[09:30] <dednick> Saviq: they're the one that set the flag right?
[09:30] <Saviq> dednick, but they don't know what they got in return
[09:30] <Saviq> dednick, whether they're still windowed or not
[09:31] <Saviq> dednick, and they might want to adapt their UI depending on that
[09:32] <Saviq> dednick, IIUC it should be possible for us to tell them their state, same as when we maximize apps and whatnot?
[09:33] <Saviq> dednick, and yeah, can confirm the vertical offset on OSK
[09:35] <dednick> Saviq: mmm. i'll have to think about that. we'll probably have to start saving old states then...
[09:35] <dednick> which is shit
[09:35] <Saviq> dednick, I thought that we might need to, but couldn't see a reason TBH
[09:37] <Saviq> dednick, if they unset the flag, they either go back to windowed (if they were fullscreen) or remain windowed (if they are windowed)
[09:37] <dednick> Saviq: are we also supposed to reset the flag if we go into desktop mode?
[09:37] <dednick> since it no longer does anything
[09:37] <Saviq> dednick, don't think so, can we even set the flags from our side?
[09:38] <dednick> QWindow::setWindowFlags
[09:38] <Saviq> dednick, it does, that's exactly how we remember to switch it to fullscreen when you go back to staged
[09:38] <Saviq> otherwise we'd have left it non-fullscreen
[09:38] <Saviq> == bad
[09:39] <dednick> right. so if they requested fullscreen while in desktop mode, and switch back to phone?
[09:39] <dednick> it goes to non fullscreen if the flag isn't set right?
[09:41] <dednick> think we should get rid of this flag business later. can put something into the sdk so that the clients can use the form factor to determin all this state business.
[09:41] <Saviq> dednick, that's the point, we don't want them to use the form factor to keep the behaviour consistent
[09:42] <Saviq> dednick, if they requested fullscreen in desktop mode and go to staged, we're back in square one (flag + fullscreen), unless they unset the flag
[09:42] <Saviq> dednick, so then if you go back go windowed, you get it in a window again, and that's fine
[09:43] <dednick> right. which is behaviour based on form factor. so why arent we using it? :P)
[09:43] <Saviq> dednick, because we don't want apps to decide
[09:43] <Saviq> dednick, if they go fullscreen and unset the flag, they are fullscreen across the board
[09:46] <dednick> Saviq: sigh. the apps are deciding anyway since they use the flag specifically for this behaviour. anyway...
[09:46] <dednick> i'll try out setting back the state
[09:47] <Saviq> dednick, I kinda know, but if we decide we want this behaviour to be different in any way, we can change it without touching apps then
[09:47] <Saviq> dednick, I think what needs to happen is we react differently to formfactor, flag, state changes, not in a single updateBasedOnAll method
[09:47] <Saviq> dednick, but
[09:47] <Saviq> dednick, more important for today - the OSK offset
[09:48] <Saviq> dednick, if we don't get the client updates, fine, but we can't land with the OSK skewed
[09:48] <dednick> Saviq: yeah. i'm not really sure whats going on with that panel hack. it shouldnt really have any effect, but it does
[09:50] <dednick> just going to try remove it and see if that fixes the issue quickly.
[10:04] <Saviq> dednick, also just realized we're not reacting well to form factor changing at the same time window state does, if I go from staged to windowed, the flagged windows end up being tiny for some reason
[10:05] <Saviq> worried it's our fullscreen animation going awry
[10:06] <dednick> Saviq: yeah, i've seen that as well
[10:06] <dednick> think it's saving the state when it's still animating maybe
[11:47] <dandrader> mzanetti, how do I perform an alt+tab in "make tryShell"?
[11:48] <mzanetti> dandrader, there is an itemselector on what the ctrl key should do. set it to "alt" and then press ctrl+tab
[11:48]  * mzanetti off today
[11:48] <dandrader> oh
[11:49] <dandrader> mzanetti, where question then: and where is that "itemselector" located?
[11:49] <dandrader> s/where/last
[11:49] <dandrader> mzanetti, nevermind. it just works. thanks
[11:50] <mzanetti> dandrader, it might hasn't landed yet... it will only come with the launcher stuff I believe, where tryShell also required Super+Tab etc
[11:51] <dednick> Saviq: i've pushed the fix for the osk offset. i'm not really sure why it happens on osk and not other surfaces though...
[11:51] <dednick> must be something to do with how it's position in u8
[11:53] <Saviq> dednick, ack, tx
[11:53] <Saviq> dednick, I'm gonna get it under QA as is, without the "feedback loop"
[11:53] <dednick> Saviq: ok thanks.
[11:55] <Saviq> dednick, but please have a look at that anyway
[11:55] <dednick> Saviq: sure will
[11:55] <Saviq> with somewhat lower pressure, though :)
[11:56] <TheRock> Is there any chance of Canonical participating in GSOC this year?
[12:00] <Saviq> tsdgeos, cimi, looking at https://unity8-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/test-0-autopkgtest/ we managed to make lazyImage worse atm ;)
[12:00] <tsdgeos> !\o/
[12:01] <tsdgeos> Saviq: but that's without the new fix, no?
[12:01] <cimi> Saviq, hurray!
[12:01] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah yeah
[12:01] <tsdgeos> k
[12:24] <dandrader> Does anybody know what makes the greeter go away when a new application appears?
[12:24] <Saviq> dandrader, focus event
[12:25] <Saviq> -ish
[12:26] <Saviq> dandrader_, focus event-ish
[12:27] <Saviq> dandrader_, Shell.qml:432
[12:28] <dandrader_> Saviq, is that trunk? Shell.qml:432 for me is a comment: "// See powerConnection for why this is useful"
[12:28] <Saviq> dandrader_ right, it's not, :417 then
[12:29] <dandrader_> Saviq, this is hiding the launcher
[12:32] <Saviq> dandrader, d'uh
[12:34] <Saviq> dandrader|afk, greeter.notifyAboutToFocusApp() then? :)
[12:35] <Saviq> dednick, so what about the tiny app window when switching to windowed?
[12:40] <dednick> Saviq: ah. havent looked into that yet. will do now.
[12:44] <ltinkl> Saviq, dednick: I think I see something fishy in the log regarding the tiny window: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14886821/
[12:45] <Saviq> ltinkl, different tiny window I think ;)
[12:45] <Saviq> ltinkl, we're still on silo 57, not 51
[12:48] <ltinkl> Saviq, yeah but wth is going on there with dash... it starts suspended, then gets an initial (-1,-1) size and twice, then focused twice, and moved 0 -> 0
[12:49] <Saviq> ltinkl, sure, I'm just saying dednick's not looking at that silo at all, you might wanna discuss with Daniel instead
[12:49] <ltinkl> Saviq, kk
[12:57] <dandrader> Saviq, for the record: It's Shell.qml:218 "greeter.notifyAppFocused(appId);"
[12:57] <Saviq> :)
[14:41] <Saviq> dednick, hey, any luck?
[14:44] <dednick> Saviq: trying to sort figure out some lockup issues when switching modes.
[14:46] <oSoMoN> is there some sort of public API that would allow a QML app to figure out whether it’s running under unity8 or another DE ?
[14:47] <oSoMoN> (I know this question sounds wrong, but I need to work around a bug in notify-osd, and I need to do it conditionally, i.e. no need for the workaround under unity8)
[14:47] <Saviq> oSoMoN, you could switch on QT_QPA_PLUGIN if you really need
[14:50] <oSoMoN> that’s basically what I’m already doing (checking QGuiApplication::platformName()), but I was hoping for something accessible from QML directly, without having to expose it in C++
[15:01] <tsdgeos> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/fix_dash_icons_cut/+merge/285194
[15:01] <tsdgeos> not sure if it is *THE* fix but it's *A* fix
[15:02] <Saviq> oSoMoN, then no, can't say there is anything
[15:07] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you mean there could be a better way to fix?
[15:07] <tsdgeos> there could be a different way to fix it probably
[15:08] <tsdgeos> not sure if it would be better
[15:08] <tsdgeos> since i haven't found it :D
[15:08] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ok, added to silo 57
[15:09] <tsdgeos> otoh this is probably cleaner/less risky too
[15:09] <Saviq> dednick, that's re: the apps getting tiny, or some other lockup you've found?
[15:10] <dednick> Saviq: it's something else. but it's making me not be able to reproduce the tiny apps now :/
[15:10] <dednick> Saviq: told you about it a couple of days ago. u8 locks up or crashes when changing form factor.
[15:12] <dednick> Saviq: does it happen to you with the dash?
[15:13] <dednick> nevermind. just reprod
[15:18] <Saviq> dednick, not dash, just fullscreen apps
[15:18] <Saviq> dednick, but if we're getting lockups (I never did, actually)
[15:18] <Saviq> dednick, we probably should not land this yet
[15:20] <dednick> Saviq: dont think greyback has reprod a lockup, but i think he's got a crash or 2.
[15:21] <Saviq> never had either, the only issue I saw were the tiny windows
[15:21] <greyback> no lockup here, but I am getting crashes
[16:30] <dednick> Saviq: just pushed a fix for the tiny windows. still a bit weird wonky though. when switching stage the app resizes from small to normal size
[16:31] <dednick> shoudl really resize from fullscreen to normal, but it's getting reset to 0 somewhere.
[16:34] <Saviq> dednick, ack, I'm cutting our losses on that for today though, as you guys mention lockups and crashes - it looks like we're getting some slack anyway
[16:34] <dednick> Saviq: ok
[16:35] <Saviq> dednick, so yeah, no immediate deadline on it, but would be nice to get when we can
[16:39] <dednick> Saviq: if we want to bypass the crash issues we're having now I can look into using mir_surface_set_state to push the window states back to qtubuntu. ie make the decision in the shell and dont bother the client with form factor ftb. Obviosuly will need to be solved though.
[16:40] <dednick> handling it client side was supposed to be the "quick fix"!
[16:41] <dednick> Saviq: and we use the new mir "low crome" api
[16:41] <Saviq> dednick, WFM
[16:42] <dednick> ok, i'll take a look into it.


[11:12] <Xceed> hi, i issue a .. snapcraftctl set-grade "$GRADE" ... within `override-pull` in yaml. However, after the stage `override-prime` i see output .. 'grade' property not specified: defaulting to 'stable' .. anyone know how to make global a correctly set $GRADE value from a scriptlet ?
[12:56] <Xceed> ^ answer.. "adopt: my-part" is a requirement.
[23:54] <Xceed> i have two repos on my snappy web account, how do i delete one, the delete button keeps saying there is an issue doing the request


[01:24] <genii> Flannel: The day after the ban is lifted he starts in again on the same subject (BLACK_MAN)
[01:25] <Flannel> genii: Which ban is this?
[01:26] <genii> Flannel: According to bt, n-a-l-i-o-t-h on Nov 18, p-r-i-c-e lifted it yesterday
[01:27] <Flannel> wow, he's got quite the history
[01:29] <KB1JWQ> Flannel: Oh yeah.
[01:29]  * mneptok sighs
[01:30] <mneptok> who wrote the Fridge posting about the IRCC?
[01:30] <KB1JWQ> I have to think he may be a bot.
[01:31] <Flannel> mneptok: Looks like it was copied from pliea
[01:31] <Flannel> (the email)
[01:32] <mneptok> i like how my name is misspelled, but the link right next to it has the correct spelling. :P
[01:32] <Flannel> mneptok: Mr Castro did that to me too when we got approved
[01:32] <Flannel> (we being my LoCo)
[01:34] <MenZa> MEESTER VON FEENCK.
[01:37] <Flannel> Hmm, is fridge no longer syndicated on planet?
[01:49] <Flannel> Howdy mrand, how can we help you today?
[01:52] <mrand> Sorry, I had to step away.  mike330404 and _BLACK_MAN_ appear to be the same person and were abusing #mythbuntu.  mike330404 just /quit  hopefully _BLACK_MAN_ will do the same.
[01:54] <genii> mrand: Were they going on about some ORT-8a protocol?
[01:54] <mrand> Indeed.
[01:55] <MenZa> I don't think I've ever seen a person sport three names before.
[01:55] <MenZa> berrybarry<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- ircname: Erika
[01:56] <maco> heh
[02:00] <MenZa> nownow maco, that was a bit... excessive
[02:00] <maco> im not an op in that channel. thats what i say as a normal person being creeped out
[02:01]  * MenZa shrugs
[02:06] <nhandler> mneptok: I fixed the spelling of your name on the Fridge
[02:06] <Pici> maco: sorry. I didn't want to elaborate on my comment becuase I knew that even if one person was joking about it, it would get out of hand, like it sort of is now.
[02:07] <maco> Pici: do so in pm?
[02:07] <Pici> maco: not needed
[02:07] <Pici> its been a long day, sorry.
[02:28] <MenZa> RFC: http://lassehavelund.com/~menza/ubiz_final.pdf -- http://lassehavelund.com/~menza/ubiz_final_cut.pdf gives a better idea of the cutting of the cards.
[02:30] <nhandler> I like it MenZa. One of these days, I'll get around to actually printing out the cards I made
[02:30] <MenZa> nhandler: heh, I'll do mine in the new year.
[03:34]  * genii sips
[04:26] <MenZa> mneptok: Good blog post.
[04:27] <MenZa> genii: Off to get some coffee.
[04:37] <Amaranth> silly nickserv
[04:47] <MenZa> Jigbuntu in #ubuntu
[04:48] <MenZa> Racial slurring - ubottu is slow right now
[04:49] <Amaranth> hehe, that guy tried again
[04:49] <Amaranth> but we have services this time :)
[04:49] <MenZa> yay
[04:49] <Amaranth> and a staff that isn't overloaded trying to keep the network from melting down due to lack of services
[04:50] <MenZa> heh
[05:05] <nhandler> +1 for that Amaranth
[05:17]  * Amaranth knocks on wood
[05:17] <Amaranth> services don't fail me now
[05:19] <MenZa> Amaranth: I can handle -ot if you take care of #u?
[07:46] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58]  * topyli stretches, yawns
[07:58] <Flannel> topyli: Are you a cat?
[07:59] <topyli> just another sleepy topyli :)
[10:10] <ardchoille> Flannel____ in #ubuntu looks to be attampting to pose as Flannel
[10:10] <ardchoille> just fyi
[10:14] <ikonia> I'm awake now - sorry
[10:25] <ikonia> for the record, posey and flannel______ are the same person, IP's match, Flannel____ (for an unknown reason) pm'd me a load of crap and abuse, so he clearly has a problem with myself and flannel, posey is now doing the same, same cut and paste from flannel____'s pm - thus confirming they are the same person so the removal was warrented, he's also made a 3rd person with the same ident/ip do the same thing to me- but he's logged out
[10:27] <ikonia> the silly person is pasteing in a pm to me the BSD license, with random "fuck you" comments between them
[10:27] <ikonia> not a problem, just for the record. I'm not aware of who he was in the past to be upset with myself/flannel can't see anything similar in BT
[10:28] <bazhang> its asmodeus
[10:28] <ikonia> ooh relly
[10:29] <ikonia> really
[10:29] <bazhang> he and his buddies hang out in #olenepal
[10:29] <ikonia> I've not had dealings with him, so I'm not sure why he's mad with me, but fair enough, thank you
[10:29] <bazhang> was newnicking to bazhang_killer yesterday in -ot
[10:30] <ikonia> didn't see any of that, clearly I look away for a second and....... ;)
[10:30] <bazhang> hehe
[11:40] <Mamarok> what's this, holiday season broke out and kids are bored?
[11:43] <jussi01> Mamarok: I thought you werent here?
[11:44] <Mamarok> well, I am not really, still in hospital, and will be more lurking than anything else in the next days I guess
[11:44] <jussi01> :) hope things went well.
[11:44] <Mamarok> takes ages to type a line, so I wouldn't be very productive
[11:45] <Mamarok> yep, seems so, pins go out next week, I feel OKish :)
[11:46] <elky> they apparently took a cyst out of my jaw. the path isn't back on it yet though
[11:47] <elky> it was only 5 days ago, 2 of which were weekend
[11:47] <Mamarok> well, I managed to connect my laptop yesterday evening, they had some strange WiFi setup here
[11:48] <Mamarok> elky: how are you feeling?
[11:48] <elky> fine. aside from gum tenderness, no pain at all.
[11:48] <elky> i'm at least back down to plain ibuprofen rather than the codeine fortified stuff, and certainly not at the quantity i was taking it
[11:49] <jussi01> elky: what about the lack of nutrition?
[11:49] <Mamarok> great, doesn't hurt much here neither, I have a big wobbling throat, that's it
[11:49] <Mamarok> let's hope nobody takes pics these days...
[11:50] <elky> jussi01, most of the tomato pasta sauces have been "chargrilled vegetables" type ones, so i doubt i'm lacking much on that front
[11:50] <elky> and a week without dairy/meat/egg isn't going to kill me
[11:50] <elky> i just cant seem to feel full!
[11:51] <elky> pasta tends to digest way too quickly in me :(
[11:51] <elky> yet a glass of milk will keep me full for hours.
[11:59] <Mamarok> hm, yes, pasta is not holding for very long, unless it's made of whole grain
[12:04] <elky> i buy the stuff with oat fibre in it, but it's still no good. wholemeal pasta tastes like rubber
[12:04] <Mamarok> exactly, it's not very good :(
[12:04] <Mamarok> and you have to cook it for ages
[12:04] <elky> potato gnocchi is ok-ish
[12:05] <Mamarok> well, that's different, as it's not only potato, you still put some grano duro in it usually
[12:05] <elky> grano dura being durum wheat?
[12:06] <elky> er, s/dura/duro/
[12:06] <Mamarok> no Idea how you call this in English, the stuff you make pasta from, as it is not as fine as usual wheat flour
[12:06] <elky> yeah, durum wheat flour
[12:07] <Mamarok> I guess so, but it's more like tiny grains than real flour
[12:07] <Mamarok> yellowish
[12:07] <elky> wheat germ?
[12:07] <Mamarok> wheat
[12:07]  * Mamarok checks wikipedia for a better explanation
[12:08] <Mamarok> ah, found it, Semolina
[12:08] <elky> ah
[12:08] <Mamarok> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semolina
[12:08] <elky> ok, soggy breakfast cereal with rice milk is also out. the fruit bits are too scratchy :(
[12:09] <Mamarok> in Italian it is just called "semola di grano duro"
[12:09] <Mamarok> ouch
[12:09] <elky> i probably would have got it if you had the semola bit :P
[12:09] <Mamarok> sorry :)
[12:10] <Mamarok> oh, markey's here already, I can go home :)
[12:10] <jussi01> Laters Mamarok
[12:10] <elky> the specific breed of wheat that gets used for pastas is durum :)
[12:11] <Mamarok> yes
[12:11]  * jussi01 hands elkysome rye pasta.
[12:11] <Mamarok> later :)
[12:12] <Mamarok> I will likely not disappear, if the bouncer doesn't get killed in the mean time
[12:12] <elky> jussi01, i got some brown rice pasta today. haven't come across rye pasta though
[12:12] <jussi01> elky: rye pasta is great.
[12:12] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[12:13] <elky> jussi01, i wonder how i can get some...
[12:13]  * elky consults Uncle Google.
[12:13] <jussi01> elky: Im not sure if its available in australia
[12:13] <jussi01> but they make loads of stuff out of rye here.
[12:14] <elky> jussi01, it appears it is
[12:14] <elky> http://www.google.com/search?q=rye+pasta+site%3A.au
[12:14] <elky> the top link seems to do heaps of alternative grain pastas
[12:16] <elky> i wonder if spelt pasta is more sustaining than regular wheat pasta too..
[13:53] <tsimpson> in about 5 mins ubottu will moved to another server, and be down for a couple minutes
[13:57] <Pici> okay
[14:25] <tsimpson> Please note that the bantracker URL has changed, so be sure to @btlogin to get the new URL
[14:25] <Pici> tsimpson: has the !usage factoid been updated for the new factoids.cgi link as well?
[14:26] <tsimpson> nope, I was just about to go through them
[14:26] <tsimpson> unless you want to do it for me? ;)
[14:26] <Pici> Also, could someone please tell me if I'm overreacting to terrorink in #ubuntu?
[14:27] <tsimpson> he's off topic with that
[14:30] <tsimpson> !bot
[14:30] <Pici> @login
[14:30] <tsimpson> unfortunately the old server went down before I could copy over recent changes to the BT web ui
[14:31] <jussi01> tsimpson: I could go and point ubottu.com at jussi01.com's IP, but that would be too easy, no? :D
[14:31] <tsimpson> jussi01: we can do that too, but it takes time for DNS servers to update
[14:32] <jussi01> yeah, and DNS in .fi is borked atm...
[14:32] <genii> @btlogin
[14:35] <ikonia> jussi01: did you want me ?
[14:35] <jussi01> ikonia: yeah, for the setup. dont have time right at this second though.
[14:35] <ikonia> no problem
[14:36] <jussi01> ikonia: you could add tsimpson as wel, then we could use it for a backup for ubottu.com
[14:37] <ikonia> ok
[15:01] <Pici> :(
[15:07] <DJones> Pici: If you're around, it looks like you've got a fan in #ubuntu using the nick "piciisstupid"
[15:07] <ikonia> same guy as flannel ?
[15:07] <Pici> DJones: wonderful. Thanks
[15:07] <DJones> no probs
[15:07] <ikonia> bope - different
[15:08] <Pici> I think its the guy who I asked to stop talking about offtopic security earlier.
[15:08] <ikonia> ughhh another split
[15:13] <Pici> @login
[15:13] <Pici> whoops, didn't need that.
[15:16] <Pici> !appeals > piciisstupid
[15:16] <ikonia> didn't see him go ?
[15:17] <Pici> hm?
[15:17] <ikonia> never mind, thought you'd removed him from #u
[15:17] <Pici> nope.
[15:17] <ikonia> I just realised
[15:31] <tsimpson> hmm
[15:41] <tsimpson> please note ubottu.com now points to the same IP as jussi01.com
[15:41] <ikonia> noted
[17:28]  * genii tentatively sips his coffee and waits for wallops
[18:06] <Pici> fixed.
[18:17] <Amaranth> kubuntu is moving off of freenode?
[18:17] <Pici> Amaranth: No, they're just having their meeting on oftc because the netsplits would make it unreasonable to have it here.
[18:17] <maco> the meeting is in oftc
[18:20] <jussi01> woohoo! Im now a kubuntu member! :D
[18:27] <gord> cool! can i be one? i used kubuntu once!
[18:30] <jussi01> gord: no! that would involve you having ponies, and that just wouldnt be right...
[18:30] <jussi01> :D
[18:31] <gord> you... you get ponies in kubuntu?
[18:31] <jussi01> of course!
[18:31] <gord> unfair :(
[18:32] <maco> duh everyone knows that
[18:32] <maco> jussi01: the lag between me and your core is soimething FIERCE
[18:32] <jussi01> maco: yeah, very heavy load atm
[18:33] <Pici> Someone remind me, are we telling people not to use ubuntu tweak?
[18:35] <gord> i generally advise against anything thats not peer reviewed
[18:35] <jussi01> we are, it uses --force-yes iirc.
[18:35] <jussi01> leastways thats my memory of it
[18:36] <Pici> Oh, I like the 'Ubuntu Software Center Manual' link on this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/add-applications/C/installing.html
[18:37]  * Pici reports a bug
[18:39] <Mamarok> contratulations, jussi01 :)
[18:40] <jussi01> Mamarok: thanks!
[18:40] <Pici> jussi01: I'm not sure what kubuntu membership gets you, but congrats
[18:41] <jussi01> Pici: not overly much, but a vote in election of the KC, and various other items.
[18:41] <Mamarok> Pici: that's where the kool folk hang out ;)
[18:41] <Pici> Mamarok: heh
[18:41]  * jussi01 was already an ubuntu member
[18:41] <Pici> I know
[18:42]  * Mamarok is both
[18:49] <tsimpson> jussi01: you also get a groovy @kubuntu.org email address :)
[18:50] <genii> oooooooooooooo
[18:50] <jussi01> tsimpson: oh wow... in addition to my @ubuntu.com one? :D
[18:50] <tsimpson> yeah
[19:59] <jussi01> tsimpson: Im going to have to reset the net. theres something not quite right and it may need a router restart.
[20:01] <tsimpson> it seems to be dropping packets
[20:01] <jussi01> yeah, lemme reset and see if it helps
[20:05]  * genii-around sips his horrible decaf coffee
[20:22] <topyli> the server that my irssi lives on will be moved tomorrow, i will be offline for a few hours
[20:23] <topyli> unless i do what normal people do and connect with my xchat directly :)
[20:23] <topyli> we'll see
[20:25] <jussi01> the internets is evil today
[20:26] <tsimpson> more people using the internet means more idiots using the internet, elementary dear jussi01
[20:27] <jussi01> lol
[20:27]  * mneptok watches as tsimpson makes the case for Soylent Green
[20:27] <Flannel> mneptok: How are we going to use people to make the internet faster?
[20:28] <topyli> jussi01, it's just september, nothing new
[20:28] <mneptok> more Soylent Green means more avaialable bandwidth
[20:28] <topyli> the one that never ended
[20:28]  * Pici checks his calendar
[20:28] <Flannel> yay endless september!
[20:28] <jussi01> topyli: september?
[20:29] <Flannel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
[20:29] <tsimpson> there should be 2 internets, "the internet" for us, and "dat place u get teh warez" for the rest
[20:32] <jussi01> tsimpson: +1! :D
[20:39] <topyli> tsimpson, sounds like a plan to me
[20:40] <Mamarok> tsimpson: +1 from me
[20:41] <Mamarok> with huge bandwith for us and drippings for the rest ;)
[21:00] <ardchoille> If I notice a problem in #ubuntu, is it ok to send a message to this chanel or do I need to join here and then inform you? I don't want to remain here all the time per the topic
[21:00] <tsimpson> if there is a problem, you should normally call ops
[21:01] <ardchoille> ok, will do. What about when uobttu isn't connected?
[21:01] <ardchoille> I'll just join, that seeems to be best anyway
[21:01] <tsimpson> then join
[21:01] <ardchoille> ok
[21:01] <Tm_T> brrrrh
[21:02] <Pici> I have the trigger itself on hilight.
[21:02] <Tm_T> again he parts before I manage to write something
[21:03] <tsimpson> garrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[21:05] <topyli> takes the "no idling" rule literally :)
[21:05] <genii-around> Hehe
[21:06] <genii-around> topyli: ardchoille or ubottu?
[21:06] <topyli> hahaha. both i guess :)
[21:06] <topyli> see?
[21:12] <tsimpson> ubottu.com is now the old ubottu.com and not jussi01.com
[22:10] <Tm_T> nhandler: busy day, isn't it, all these people coming and going... (:)
[22:11]  * nhandler just got home ;)
[23:46] <LjL> i suggest the scope and/or existence of the !troll factoid be re-evaluated
[23:46] <LjL> see how it was just used on #ubuntu -- i see it used that way a lot
[23:46] <LjL> basically to accuse someone of being a troll
[23:47] <LjL> (which is probably quite true in that specific case, but that's not the point)


[00:35] <roasted> darkxst: yea I noticed that. Thanks for updating. I put in staging and saw them come through. :)
[01:35] <roasted> I'm looking for a way to decrease the reveal time of the message tray in 13.04/Gnome 3.8.2 via Gnome3+Gnome3Staging PPA. I understand that with Xorg 1.14 (13.10) it will be pressure sensitive. For the time being with 13.04 and xorg 1.13, is there a way to simply decrease the counter so it shows up quicker?
[16:30] <aks> hi
[19:18] <roasted> hello friends
[23:12] <jbicha> darkxst: are you leading Alpha1 next week?


[14:02] <PaulW2U> torrential rain all day so stayed indoors and finished off the summaries
[18:15] <pleia2> rain \o/
[18:15] <pleia2> thanks PaulW2U :)
[18:16] <pleia2> (thanks uk weather)


[15:36] <h00k> ronoc_work: hey mang.
[15:36] <ronoc_work> waddup brah
[15:45] <h00k> ronoc_work: notta. My plex is busted, I need to fix it.
[15:45] <h00k> Haven't had time :'(
[15:45] <h00k> ronoc_work: and we seriously dig rick and morty, we've plowed through all of them.
[19:18] <ronoc_work> I love that show too.
[19:20] <ronoc_work> I picked up this guy for $180 and run esxi 6 on it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859108077R&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Server+%26+Workstation+Systems-_-N82E16859108077R&gclid=CjwKEAjw7O6vBRDpi7O-8OWSkwESJACNFsgx_fHX5o1wc3GbJ7Ql3zoR2JLZpAxMh17HZ6cgGB8z1BoC9yHw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
[19:20] <ronoc_work> It plex on 14.04 LTS is one of the VMS on there
[19:20] <ronoc_work> runs great
[19:21] <ronoc_work> I have had 4 people streaming off of it at once
[19:22] <ronoc_work> I did upgrade the disk inside to an SSD, 32GB ram, and put a quad gig pci card in it.


 Big problems?
[01:28] <wgrant> (you're sleep-IRCing again. Bad kiko)
[01:31] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, nothing insurmountable. just some hard decisions and then Work.
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> need to figure out what to do with some of the blocks so they don't conflict with customer requirements
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> get rid of some other proprietary bits we can't redistribute in the tree
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> I will release a roadmap later this month
[01:32] <wgrant> I wondered if there would be bits like that.
[01:33] <wgrant> Release as in to us mere mortals?
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> I still don't see any new events on my trac due to its linkage with launchpad.
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> Also, everyone please download Tahoe and try it out.  It is a secure distributed p2p filesystem.
[01:37] <wgrant> Won't it only do things if bugs have been linked?
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> It's awesome.
[01:38] <zookofamilytime> So, then please report some bugs in Tahoe, using launchpad, and see what happens.  ;-)
[01:38] <spiv> The pycon talk about it was certainly awesome.
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> Glad you liked it!
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> That talk was Brian Warner's doing.
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> I'm about to give a talk of my own: http://allmydata.org/~zooko/lafs.pdf
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> away I go to family time
[02:06] <radix> Ok, so I'm building a package which build-depends on a package that's already in my PPA, but it's saying it can't find it
[02:06] <radix> so I guess I'm doing something wrong
[02:08] <persia> radix: Are the binaries in your PPA as well as the source?  Other than that, it's hard to guess what might be the issue.  Maybe a versioned dependency?
[02:08] <radix> persia: yes, libglktermw-dev built successfully, then I uploaded glulxe, and it couldn't find it
[02:08] <radix> my log is at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18146684/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.glulxe_043-0ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[02:08] <wgrant> radix: How long between the build completion and other upload?
[02:08] <radix> wgrant: not very long
[02:09] <wgrant> radix: You might need to wait up to 20 minutes (the binaries are only published on */20)
[02:09] <radix> ok, they're there, so I'll try another build of glulxe
[02:09] <persia> radix: If you add the PPA to /etc/apt/sources.list, can you download the -dev package?
[02:09] <wgrant> Just hit "Retry build".
[02:09] <persia> (with apt-get install)
[02:09] <wgrant> Or maybe wait - but it might take a while to automatically retry.
[02:10] <radix> persia: I'm just looking at the http server now: http://ppa.launchpad.net/radix/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glktermw/
[02:10] <persia> radix: OK.  When you *know* it's published, wait a bit for for tbe buildd internal mirror to get a copy (buildds have no network access), and then click retry.
[02:10] <radix> aha
[02:11] <radix> ok
[02:11] <wgrant> Depwait builds should be automatically retried when their deps are available.
[02:11] <radix> oh, sweet
[02:11] <wgrant> I'm not sure how frequent that is for PPAs, however.
[02:12] <radix> I guess I won't hit that button then
[02:13] <radix> I don't see any indication that they'll be retried, but I guess I'll wait a while longer
[02:13] <wgrant> There hasn't been a publisher for 13 minutes.
[02:13] <wgrant> There's little point retrying before another publisher run.
[02:14] <radix> that's good to know
[02:15] <radix> this is the first time I've used PPA, and the only docs I've found are https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA , so I'm still pretty clueless
[02:16] <wgrant> That build probably only started a couple of minutes too early.
[02:16] <wgrant> It might actually work if your retry it now.
[02:17]  * radix pushes the buttons :)
[02:18]  * Hobbsee spins the dials
[02:18]  * wgrant turns everything off.
[02:20]  * Hobbsee runs 240v through wgrant.
[02:20] <Hobbsee> voom!
[02:20] <wgrant> I wouldn't voom if you put 40000V through me.
[02:21] <wgrant> Or is it vroom? I forget.
[02:21] <jml> hmm, a contested assertion
[02:21] <jml> try to try Science!
[02:21] <jml> "time to try"
[02:21] <radix> "try to try" works too
[02:21]  * wgrant fails to try.
[02:22] <Hobbsee> vroom, iirc.
[02:22] <jml> radix: not quite as well though
[02:22] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Probably so.
[02:39] <wgrant> radix: Well, it worked, but failed.
[02:42] <radix> wgrant: yeah, but for a reason I know how to deal with :-)
[02:42] <radix> Thanks very much for the help
[02:42] <wgrant> np
[02:43] <radix> I should really set up a barebones VM so I can more easily spot these build-deps errors
[02:43] <wgrant> Why do you need a VM?
[02:43] <radix> or a chroot, whatever
[02:43] <wgrant> We use either pbuilder or schroot.
[02:44] <radix> I'll look into those
[04:39] <jtv> helloooo launchpad!
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hey jtv!
[04:42]  * wgrant escapes
[04:44] <jtv> hi Hobbsee
[04:44] <jtv> Hobbsee: what did I do to scare wgrant?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> jtv: i'm not sure.  But he just had to deal with an incredibly dim user, and has been dealing with the forums, so he was probably already highly traumatised.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> (how do people know about #ubuntu-bugs, #ubuntu-quality, etc, yet not know how to install a program with ubuntu?)
[04:46] <wgrant> Selective cluelessness.
[04:46] <jtv> Hobbsee: don't ask me.  I've been dealing with some guy who uses my mailing lists and bug tracker to ask for help with issues like "I'm using your C++ library and I'm getting these link errors about missing functions"
[04:46] <jtv> Where the issue is of course simply that he's not linking to the library.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> jtv: classy.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> yes, of course.
[04:46] <jtv> Or "I'm getting an error, something about a variable definition.  Why?"
[04:47] <wgrant> Some of the stuff in the Programming Talk subforum of ubuntuforums.org is great.
[04:47] <jtv> When I get him to tell me the actual error messages, it's "I'm getting this error, what's wrong with my program?"
[04:47] <jtv> wgrant: ah, examples!
[05:00] <jml> jtv: "give me a minimal, runnable example that reproduces the problem" is my favourite way of dealing with those.
[05:03] <jtv> jml: In this case of mine I've moved on to "I can help you solve your problem, but you must put in some effort—such as bothering to read the error message."
[05:04] <jml> jtv: sucks :(
[05:05] <jtv> jml: I once spent time explaining that to someone, and the guy told me what an idiot I was for wasting my time on that.
[05:05] <jtv> jml: we do get some entertaining stories out of it...
[05:05] <jml> jtv: explaining "reading the error message"?
[05:06] <jtv> jml: and "produce a minimal example" and such
[05:06] <jml> jtv: ahh ok.
[05:06] <jml> jtv: well when they do that I reach for my ignore gun.
[05:07] <jtv> jml: and resolve not to spend so much time on it next time?
[05:07] <jml> jtv: well, this is mostly in an IRC context
[05:08] <jml> jtv: so I say, "can you please paste a minimal, runnable example to <pastebin>" and then generally don't actually bother elaborating until they do so (or confess that this is proprietary code they are being paid to work on or what have you)
[05:09] <jtv> jml: and on IRC I suppose the ignoring is more work.  :-)
[05:09] <jml> jtv: /ignore <foo> all
[05:09] <jml> jtv: also, having op privileges is nice :)
[05:10] <jtv> jml: ahhhh  :)
[05:39] <Ursinha> me again
[05:43] <jml> hi
[05:49] <jdrake> I have specified a milestone called 'demo1a' and pushed some updates to a related branch and tagged it demo1a. How can I get the demo1a milestone to be connected with the specific revision?
[05:54] <Ursinha> jdrake, with the specific revision you've pushed to lp? I'm not sure you can do such association
[05:54] <Ursinha> bzr revision, there is
[05:55] <jdrake> What is the point of saying a milestone on lp? What does it link with to have any meaning?
[05:56] <Ursinha> jdrake, you can associate bugs and blueprints to it
[05:57] <Ursinha> so, targeting these items to a milestone, you can keep track of what is supposed to be released
[05:58] <jdrake> But you can't associate actual code to it?
[06:00] <Ursinha> you can associate a branch to a milestone, but not a specific revision
[06:00] <wgrant> I thought branches were associated with series, and releases could have tarballs.
[06:00] <wgrant> Releases should really be able to have a bzr tag attached to them, IMO.
[06:01] <Ursinha> wgrant, you're right, sorry, it's a series that can be associated to a branch
[06:02] <Ursinha> you clearly have much more experience on LP than me :)
[06:03] <jdrake> ok, I am confused here.
[06:03] <Ursinha> wgrant, when I said that you can keep track of what you'll release, I use the milestone as a "release target", as we do in LP
[06:03] <jdrake> So I have a milestone, can I get something associated with this tag 'demo1a'/revision 3, that can be a release of some kind?
[06:03] <Ursinha> jdrake, let me try to clarify, and wgrant can correct me if I'm wrong
[06:03] <wgrant> Ursinha: Right, Launchpad fails the dogfood test. Launchpad developers don't use Launchpad properly.
[06:04] <wgrant> Probably because milestones don't make much sense for Launchpad.
[06:04] <wgrant> Well, some milestones should be able to be marked as being releases, IMO.
[06:04] <Ursinha> jdrake, no, you can't associate a specific revision to something in LP
[06:04] <wgrant> Whereas at the moment they are separate concepts.
[06:04] <Ursinha> jdrake, but yes, you can associate a whole branch
[06:06] <jdrake> That seems buggered
[06:07] <wgrant> It makes sense to be able to associate revisions or tags with releases, and it makes sense to have the concept of releases and milestones merged. Neither of those are currently possible.
[06:07] <wgrant> jdrake: At the moment, you can upload files to a release for users to download.
[06:07] <Ursinha> jdrake, what I'm saying is that the smaller unit of code you can associate to something is a branch
[06:07] <Ursinha> jdrake, if you want to "release" something that belongs to a specific revision, you may package that somehow and release it
[06:07] <Ursinha> as wgrant just said
[06:08] <Ursinha> but all suggestions are welcoe
[06:08] <Ursinha> *welcome
[06:10] <Ursinha> wgrant, why you say milestones don't make much sense for LP?
[06:13] <wgrant> Ursinha: LP 2.1.10 is a release.
[06:13] <wgrant> But in the Launchpad webapp it is a milestone.
[06:13] <Ursinha> wgrant, it's a milestone to a release
[06:13] <wgrant> I think 'release' should just be an extra flag on a milestone, as that's all it is.
[06:13] <Ursinha> milestone is a point to achieve
[06:13] <Ursinha> which is not wrong in the sense we use, I think
[06:14] <jml> Ursinha: we don't use releases though.
[06:14] <wgrant> If Launchpad were open, Launchpad itself 2.1.10 would have downloadable files. Thus it doesn't make sense in the current model.
[06:14] <Ursinha> maybe we should be more clear in using releases
[06:14] <Ursinha> jml, yes, faster than me
[06:14] <wgrant> 2.0 should be a series, 2.1.10 should be a milestone with the release flag.
[06:15] <beuno> wgrant, the whole release/milestone/series is having a makeover
[06:15] <beuno> "it's in the works"
[06:15] <wgrant> beuno: Oh, good to know. What's changing?
[06:15] <beuno> they are a bit confusing
[06:15] <wgrant> Is the design public?
[06:15] <wgrant> I think bzr shows how it's broken.
[06:16] <wgrant> Their milestones inevitably duplicate their releases.
[06:16] <beuno> wgrant, I don't really remember right now, but, if IIRC, series and milestones will be collapsed unto one
[06:16] <wgrant> And I think they make rather good use of the current functionality.
[06:16] <wgrant> beuno: That makes approximately 0 sense. Do you mean releases and milestones?
[06:16] <beuno> or milestone will become releases
[06:16] <beuno> it's 2am
[06:16] <wgrant> Heh.
[06:16] <beuno> so I'm a bit off  :)
[06:16] <wgrant> That's what I would have suggested.
[06:16] <Ursinha> hey beuno
[06:16] <Ursinha> you there
[06:17] <beuno> hi Ursinha
[06:17] <beuno> nope, not here
[06:17] <beuno> :p
[06:17] <Ursinha> :P
[06:18] <beuno> wgrant, something with series will happen as well
[06:18] <beuno> because it's confusing right now
[06:18] <wgrant> beuno: I bet we're going to have this sprung on us and it will be completely broken.
[06:18] <beuno> you have to create a series to create a release to add download files
[06:18] <beuno> wgrant, I bet it won't be completely broken, and it will rock your socks off
[06:18] <beuno> :)
[06:19]  * beuno is a bit fuzzy on the details, and is very very very tired
[06:19] <wgrant> I think that the series data model shouldn't change, but they should cease to be explicitly managed.
[06:20] <wgrant> ie. when creating a release it should ask you to either select an existing series or create a new one.
[06:20] <beuno> and who said it wasn't going to work that way?
[06:20] <wgrant> You learn to doubt Launchpad design after a while, I'm afraid.
[06:20] <beuno> I haven't
[06:20] <beuno> and I've been around for a while...
[06:21] <beuno> aaaaaanyway
[06:21] <beuno> this was fun
[06:21] <wgrant> Sleep.
[06:21] <beuno> but it's way past my bedtime
[06:21] <beuno> g'night!
[06:22] <wgrant> Night!
[09:35] <siretart> any lp dev around that could edit a project's ownership?
[09:37] <adeuring> siretart: I'll ask who can do it.
[09:37] <wgrant> siretart: You'll need an ~admin unless it's owned by Registry.
[09:38] <stdin> siretart: probably best to file a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[09:38] <siretart> filed as https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/47001
[09:38]  * wgrant agrees with stdin.
[09:38]  * siretart hopes it is filed in the right place
[09:39] <wgrant> adeuring: So you are actually going to have somebody assigned to respond to things in the channel now? This is good news.
[09:41] <adeuring> wgrant: since two week or so there should be a developer "on call" here. Excat times depend on where the person lives, of course ;)
[09:41] <adeuring> wgrant: see the channel topic ;)
[09:41] <adeuring> siretart: yes, a question is exactly right
[09:41] <wgrant> adeuring: It doesn't explain the purpose of the community contact.
[09:42] <siretart> adeuring: danke! :-)
[09:42] <wgrant> And I've not seen anything more about the existence of the community contact, and I watch LP things fairly closely.
[09:42] <adeuring> wgrant: yeah, we have been parhaps a bit too silent about it...
[09:43] <wgrant> s/a bit too/completely/
[09:43] <wgrant> Anyway, it is a welcome change.
[11:19] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, ping
[11:19] <mrevell> hi kiko-zzz
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, wgrant has a good point -- we haven't told anybody about CHR
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, and I was going to ask you if we could extend management of launchpad-users to the CHR
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> wanna pile that on the stack and clear it with ole jojo?
[11:21] <mrevell> kiko-zzz: Interesting you should mention that. The releases team and I were discussing this yesterday and I'm going to blog about CHR today. I was wondering if we want to put the name of the current CHR person in this channel's topic.
[11:21] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, well, Ursula and joey did that yesterday, and I think it should become standard yeah
[11:21] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, but I was more suggesting we haven't said anything about it on news.launchpad.net or help
[11:21] <mrevell> kiko-zzz: Great, I'll add it to the CHR process page, along with launchpad-users management
[11:22] <wgrant> Excellent.
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, what do we do with the password I wonder
[11:22] <wgrant> (what does CHR stand for?)
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> community help rotation
[11:22] <wgrant> Aha.
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> we are full of acronyms this year
[11:22] <wgrant> Thankyou for introducing it.
[11:23] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, you think it's working out well?
[11:24] <wgrant> kiko-zzz: Having somebody that people can ask, and reducing response latency, is always a good thing.
[11:24] <kiko-zzz> yeah, we're still figuring out how to do it, but I agree
[11:26] <wgrant> Support latency has frankly been awful at times.
[11:28] <kiko-zzz> yeah, it's because we don't actually have support personnel. well, didn't! :)
[11:28] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:29] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, hey, I had a thought. maybe you want to apply for a CHR post? :)
[11:29] <wgrant> Hm?
[11:30] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, hmmmm? :)
[12:53] <zooko> Good morning!
[12:53] <zooko>
[12:53]  * zooko checks his trac to see if launchpad pushed any updates into it while he slept.
[13:04] <siretart> adeuring: what part of launchpad is responsible for this page: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/libquicktime1/2:1.0.2+debian-2build2
[13:04] <siretart> adeuring: is that soyuz?
[13:04] <wgrant> That's Soyuz.
[13:04] <adeuring> siretart, wgrant: right
[13:07] <siretart> thanks. bug filed
[13:08] <Hobbsee> yay CHR!  Will it cover !european workdays, though?
[13:09] <adeuring> Hobbsee: well, today, since I live in Germany. On other days people from other parts of the world may be on duty
[13:10] <Hobbsee> adeuring: so, not most of the time.  Right.
[13:10] <Hobbsee> adeuring: what do you do on launchpad?  Are you new?
[13:11] <laga> wait. i didn't get that. you are on duty because it's not a work day for you?
[13:11] <adeuring> Hobbsee: I'm working since ~1 year on Lauanchpad; mostly on a hardware database.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> adeuring: ahhh.  I'd not seen the nick before.  Hardware database for distributions, or?
[13:12] <wgrant> adeuring: Are we going to be able to get useful data out of that at some point?
[13:12] <wgrant> The raw stuff is there, but that's not entirely useful...
[13:13] <adeuring> Hobbsee: Distributions: yes and no; the idea is to collect data from Ubuntu users, and to get for example an idea how many devices (say, Lexmark printer 1234) are in use; links to bugs etc.
[13:13] <adeuring> Hobbsee: We'll have soon an API for the HW database
[13:14] <Hobbsee> adeuring: ah, right.  Cool!
[13:14] <adeuring> Hobbsee: But running the data collection client (hwtest-gtk) is technically not restricted to Ubuntu
[13:15] <Hobbsee> adeuring: indeed.
[13:15] <zooko> Where is this database?  I want to see it!
[13:15] <adeuring> Hobbsee: but I am not aware of any other distros using this program
[13:15] <Hobbsee> adeuring: no, it seems they have their own.  Or at least some of them
[13:16] <adeuring> Hobbsee: right; collecting hardware data became fashionable during the last two years or so ;)
[13:16] <Hobbsee> adeuring: heh, yes :)
[13:17]  * wgrant is yet to find traversers other than +fingerprint under /+hwdb. Are there any?
[13:20] <adeuring> wgrant: nothing really interesting; but you can look for example to lp.net/~your-account/+hwdb-submissions
[13:21] <wgrant> adeuring: Right, that's the other I knew about.
[13:21] <adeuring> wgrant: wait a bit and we'll have a bit more to present
[13:21] <wgrant> Why are there so many anonymous submissions? Isn't one required to enter a valid Launchpad email address at the end of the process?
[13:22] <adeuring> wgrant: There are many more Ubuntu users than Launchpad users, and we did not want to require an LP account for the submissions.
[13:22] <adeuring> wgrant: But as soon as somebody registers an LP account with the email address from a submissions, he'll own that submission
[13:22] <wgrant> adeuring: Hmm, it looked to me like it needed an LP account. But maybe I misread.
[13:23] <wgrant> Aha.
[13:39] <bigjools> siretart: FWIW, you can file bugs against "Launchpad" and they will be triaged and moved to the right place
[13:42] <morgs> I'm trying to copy a package in my PPA from hardy to intrepid, and I get "The following source cannot be copied: sugar-artwork 0.82.0-1ubuntu1~ppa1 in hardy (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)" - even though it doesn't exist for intrepid yet.
[13:42] <morgs> https://launchpad.net/~morgan/+archive
[13:43] <cprov> morgs: https://edge.launchpad.net/~morgan/+archive?field.name_filter=sugar-artwork&field.status_filter=published
[13:44] <morgs> cprov: hey - so can I copy it to intrepid?
[13:44] <cprov> morgs: it was already built and published for hardy, you can't rebuilt it for intrepid. You have to copy the exiting binaries too.
[13:44] <morgs> oh I see
[13:45] <morgs> If I want to build it for intrepid, do I have to reupload?
[13:45] <cprov> morgs: no, when copying, select the option (radio-button) to include the binaries.
[13:47] <cprov> morgs: and *hey*, didn't notice it was you Morgan.
[13:48] <morgs> cprov: yeah Celso :) Nice to be using soyuz...
[13:48] <morgs> cprov: OK, that works, but does the package actually get rebuilt on intrepid at some point?
[13:48] <cprov> morgs: yeah, great to see olpc stuff in the PPA too.
[13:49] <cprov> morgs: no, you will be using the binaries built in hardy in intrepid clients.
[13:50] <cprov> morgs: do you have any new library in intrepid ?
[13:51] <morgs> cprov: hmm, I actually want to get the packages built on intrepid too (my goal is to get a feature freeze exception to sync from debian where these packages come from), so I'll reupload. I did that for sugar - the ~ppa2 I uploaded for intrepid.
[13:52]  * wgrant dreams of a "Backport" button in the web UI.
[13:52]  * laga joins wgrant
[13:52] <cprov> morgs: right, when you really need to rebuild to a new series you need a new source.
[13:52] <morgs> cprov: OK thanks!
[13:52] <laga> just copying packages to another series actually sounds broken. there is no dependency checking AFAIK
[13:53] <Hobbsee> wgrant: no you don't :)
[13:53] <wgrant> laga: We do it all the time in Ubuntu...
[13:53] <laga> wgrant: without a rebuild?
[13:53] <wgrant> laga: Yes. Or the buildds would be even more angry.
[13:54] <wgrant> laga: Where do you think we get the binaries to start a new distroseries?
[13:54] <laga> without dependency checking? it surely breaks for dpkg-shlibdeps
[13:54] <laga> .. stuff
[13:54] <laga> wgrant: ah, that's not a backport.
[13:54] <wgrant> laga: It's a forward-port without rebuild, right.
[13:55] <cprov> laga: exactly, copying binaries over is more common (and right) than you think.
[13:55] <morgs> well, your first build of the toolchain on a new distroseries requires something to build it with...
[13:55] <wgrant> We carry many binaries from Warty.
[13:55] <wgrant> Copying backwards sometimes makes sense.
[13:55] <wgrant> Not always.
[13:55] <wgrant> But people should be smart enough to check this.
[13:55] <cprov> laga: but I'm not saying we don't have to rebuild in some cases, forward (new build-deps) or backwards (backports).
[13:55] <wgrant> morgs: We carry over the entire archive (except for partner... or is there a bug on that?)
[13:55] <laga> forward-ports to a completely new series are a different thing then letting joe sixpack copy packages in their PPA ;)
[13:56] <wgrant> Joe Sixpack should be allowed to shoot himself in the foot and learn from mistakes, I think. It's nothing particularly damaging.
[13:56] <cprov> laga: yes, and it doesn't mean that plain-copy isn't necessary.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> wgrant: but why are they allowed to with removing packages?
[13:57] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Because version ratcheting is good. In some cases.
[13:57] <wgrant> Just not those that Ubuntu people are more likely to use.
[13:58] <laga> alright. i'm convinced.
[13:58]  * wgrant puts away the brainwashing gear.
[13:59] <siretart> bigjools: thanks! i've noticed that soyuz alone has about 130 untriaged bugs, and I wanted to spare you some triaging work
[13:59] <bigjools> siretart: they all need triaging regardless of where they start :)
[13:59] <Hobbsee> wgrant: occasionally.  but it does seem to confuse people
[13:59] <bigjools> but thanks for the thought!
[13:59] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Confusing people is good... we don't want easily confused people to be publishing packages for the world, do we?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> wgrant: that's a point
[15:03] <radix> interesting, does uploading something to a PPA automatically create /ubuntu/+source/<pkg> ?
[15:04] <bigjools> no, that's separate
[15:04] <cprov> radix: no, the domains are separate.
[15:04] <radix> because I notice that glulxe and glktermw now exist in /ubuntu/+source , empty
[15:04] <radix> and I'm pretty sure glktermw at least has never been packaged for ubuntu
[15:04] <Hory> radix, where's the latest incarnation of twisted reality?
[15:04] <wgrant> Are SourcePackageNames shared?
[15:04] <wgrant> s/Are/Aren't/
[15:04] <Hory> I can't find it in all of the files
[15:05] <radix> Hory: it's called "Divmod Imaginary" now
[15:05] <Hory> aha, thanks
[15:05] <cprov> radix: yes, the page is available, but it says in 'no versions available'
[15:05] <radix> cprov: yes I understand
[15:05] <radix> it seems it became available because I uploaded to a PPA
[15:06] <radix> just a curious thing I noticed :)
[15:06] <cprov> radix: right, it's not a 404 because of that.
[15:06] <wgrant> Bug #157342
[15:07] <radix> but actually, it's interesting, because it means bugs can be filed against it
[15:07] <wgrant> radix: No, that was fixed.
[15:07] <wgrant> Or it was meant to be.
[15:07] <cprov> radix: no, the bug facet of the problem was fixed.
[15:07] <radix> hum, ok, I'm just guessing based on the fact that there's a "Report a Bug" button
[15:08] <wgrant> Grr.
[15:08] <wgrant> Looks like it might have been unfixed.
[15:08]  * wgrant tries on staging.
[15:08] <wgrant> One can certainly get the form...
[15:08] <radix> otoh, it'd be nice to have a place for bugs to be filed on my PPA packages :)
[15:08] <wgrant> Ah, no, the bug is still fixed.
[15:08] <cprov> radix: ubuntu-qa guys would cry loudly, I guess.
[15:09] <radix> cprov: oh, sure, if I were to put bugs in there
[15:09]  * wgrant will gladly reject the bugs.
[15:09] <radix> cprov: is there an outstanding feature request for having bug trackers specifically for PPAs?
[15:09] <radix> that I can subscribe to?
[15:09] <cprov> radix: I think so, let me find it.
[15:11] <radix> I think I found it
[15:11] <radix> bug #234564
[15:11] <cprov> radix: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/179873, too
[15:11] <radix> ah :)
[15:11] <bigjools> dupe!
[15:13] <radix> ok, thanks guys
[15:13]  * radix is subscribed
[15:14] <radix> that'd be much better than using my blog comment section as a bug tracker :)
[15:14] <cprov> radix: wordpress guys would disagree :)
[15:14]  * radix shudders
[15:14] <radix> those guys are weird ;-)
[15:15] <cprov> ehe
[15:15] <radix> oh ho, I just used "This bug affects me" for the first time
[15:21] <james_w> does anyone know why there are apparently duplicate rows on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/9menu/+publishinghistory ?
[15:22] <james_w> there are 3 lines with "Superseded  	 Dapper   	release  	universe  	x11  	 1.8-1.1"
[15:25] <cprov> james_w: looks like broken overrides we had in the past.
[15:28] <james_w> cprov: thanks
[15:30] <jbalint> Hi, how can i delete a branch?
[15:34] <adeuring> jbalint: There is a little red button on the main page of the branch,
[15:34] <adeuring> jbalint: on right to the title
[15:35] <jbalint> aw crap , i wasnt logged in. i see it now. thanks adeuring
[15:35] <adeuring> jbalint: common problem; happens to me too ;)
[15:55] <kiko> wgrant, #1 strikes again
[15:57] <zooko> Hello.
[15:58]  * zooko checks whether launchpad has synced with http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe .
[16:01] <kiko> hey zooko
[16:01] <kiko> gmb, zooko's lookin for ya ;)
[16:30] <rexbron> hey cody-somerville, kiko: LP blueprints is still timing out when I try and link a dep. (OOPS-1007EC106) Any idea if/when this will get looked at?
[16:30] <kiko> rexbron, uhhh uhhhhh uhhhhhh
[16:31] <kiko> matsubara, how about you escalate rexbron's problem?
[16:31] <rexbron> cool, it's not critical, but a blocker
[16:31] <matsubara> kiko-fud: will do
[16:31] <kiko-fud> matsubara, who do you think could sort us out?
[16:32] <gmb> zooko, kiko: So, we're still seeing issues trying to sync with the Tahoe Trac. It looks like a permissions problem, which is pretty weird.
[16:32] <gmb> zooko: Can you confirm that the 'launchpad' user has XML_PRC and LAUNCHPAD_RPC permissions on your Trac instance?
[16:32] <matsubara> kiko-fud: someone from registry, I think
[16:33] <matsubara> rexbron: I need to grab lunch now. I'll take a look when I get back.
[16:33] <rexbron> matsubara: np, enjoy :)
[16:36] <sylvainvh> hello do you speak french?
[16:36] <sylvainvh> i've a bug
[16:37] <adeuring> sylvainvh: sorry, unfortunately I don't speak French
[16:39] <sylvainvh> no problem
[16:39] <nealmcb> I read about launchpad bzr integration, and thought that using --fixes on my commit and then uploading to trunk would do something automatic in my new launchpad project - but now the fix is there, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/electionaudits and the bug still says "confirmed"  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/electionaudits/+bug/277341   Do I just need to wait some more, or is there something else to configure?
[16:40] <sylvainvh> when i start my computer. After the grub, i've sometime a sound and my computer crash
[16:41] <sylvainvh> it's a bug
[16:41] <zooko> Hey there gmb!
[16:42] <zooko> launchpad
[16:42] <zooko> LAUNCHPAD_RPC
[16:42] <zooko> XML_RPC
[16:42] <adeuring> sylvainvh: sorry, this channel is about Launchpad, not about Ubuntu. You might get help for example on Freendoe's #ubuntu channel
[16:42] <zooko> Yes -- the launchpad use has the LAUNCHPAD_RPC and XML_RPC permissions.
[16:42] <sylvainvh> ok, sorry
[16:43] <nealmcb> wow - good to see you here zooko!
[16:43] <adeuring> sylvainvh: no problem
[16:43] <zooko> Hi there Neal McB!  THanks for the recent e-mail.
[16:43] <nealmcb> :)
[16:46] <adeuring> nealmcb: I don't think that the bug status automatically updated
[16:46] <nealmcb> adeuring: then what is the integration about? and  I thought it worked for ubuntu
[16:47] <adeuring> nealmcb: need to check...
[16:47] <gmb> zooko: Hmm. Interesting. Okay, I'm continuing to look into this, but it actually looks at the moment as though Launchpad can't authenticate properly for some reason with the Tahoe Trac instance. I suspect it's a bug in the plugin that I've not seen before.
[16:48] <gmb> zooko: I'm going to set up a test instance and debug this. It might be worth your while to disable the plugin for now so that Launchpad can at least import statuses from the Tahoe Trac again.
[16:48] <nealmcb> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/user-reference/bzr_man.html#bug-tracker-settings
[16:49] <zooko> Could it be that the authentication mechanism I'm using is not the one you expected?
[16:49] <zooko> There are several authentication mechanisms people can use for Trac./
[16:49] <gmb> zooko: Well, the launchpad user should be special-cased by the plugin.
[16:49] <gmb> It bypasses the standard auth mechanisms for exactly that reason.
[16:49] <zooko> I'm using apache htdigest.
[16:49] <zooko> Hm.
[16:50] <zooko> Okay I'll disable the launchpad plugin for now.
[16:50] <zooko> Please join #tahoe if you want me to try it again.
[16:50] <zooko> Thanks!
[16:50] <gmb> zooko: Thanks. Sorry about this... Isn't beta software great? Thanks for helping with testing, though ;).
[16:50] <zooko> Sure thing!  I hope you get back to me for the next round.
[16:52] <adeuring> nealmcb: just checked with other Launchpad devs: The feature does not work with Launchpad :(
[16:53] <nealmcb> adeuring: surprising -  thanks for checking!
[16:53] <rockstar> nealmcb, you can do --fixes=lp:12345 on commit
[16:54] <nealmcb> rockstar: that's what I did
[16:54] <rockstar> nealmcb, and it didn't work?
[16:54] <nealmcb> rockstar: right - like I said above
[16:55] <nealmcb> note it is a new project, not ubuntu
[16:55]  * rockstar could've sworn it worked
[16:55] <nealmcb> But I just changed it by hand myself.  Yeah - that's what I thought
[16:57]  * nealmcb is headed out now....
[17:01] <gmb> zooko: Will do.
[17:04] <mrevell> New episode of the Launchpad podcast - http://news.launchpad.net/podcast/launchpod-episode-10-api-and-bug-plugins
[17:10] <Daviey> \o/
[17:10] <laga> any chance we can get a transcript or a short summary containing the most important points?
[17:14] <exarkun> laga: but audio is such an efficient media for information transfer
[17:14] <kiko> exarkun, and don't forget you lose the colourful language and accent of the speakers
[17:15] <laga> which makes it even harder for not-so-native speakers to understand them
[17:15] <laga> maybe we could have videos where canonical employees are holding up signs with text on them ;)
[17:19] <salutis> hello guys. I have problem with build of my package in PPA. my build crashed (according to log file) but status is 'currently building'. please help!
[17:20] <cprov> salutis: url ?
[17:20] <salutis> cprov: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18164676/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.salutis-desktop_1.0.7_NEEDSBUILD.txt.gz
[17:21] <cprov> salutis: on sec, let me check.
[17:21] <salutis> cprov: thx
[17:34] <matsubara> rexbron: feel free to subscribe to bug 244957. I'll try to find someone to work on it
[17:38] <cprov> salutis: seems to be fixed and building correctly right now.
[17:40] <salutis> cprov: perfect. thank you very much!
[17:41] <kiko> cprov, what was it?
[17:41] <cprov> salutis: np, sorry for the *noise* we were migrating stuff in the ubuntu infrastructure.
[17:41] <cprov> kiko: new drescher.
[17:42] <afflux> in bug 183685 we have an outofoffice responder and two people who want to unsubscribe but ignore my explainings.
[17:43] <salutis> cprov: but I have 3 source packages and 2 binary. probably I should rebuild the package, should I?
[17:44] <kiko> cprov, new "new"?
[17:44] <cprov> salutis: sorry ?  lack of context. Why should you rebuild stuff ?
[17:45] <salutis> cprov: ops, now package is built. sorry
[17:45] <adeuring> afflux: sounds like a bug in Launchpad that you ca subscribe but not unsubscribe other people.
[17:45] <adeuring> s/ca/can/
[17:45] <cprov> kiko: yes ;)
[17:45] <afflux> yes
[17:46] <kiko> cprov, how many TBs?
[17:47] <cprov> kiko: 1,6 TB
[17:48] <kiko> cprov, pas mal eh? disk space at an acceptable level?
[17:48] <adeuring> afflux: if it becomes too annoying, can you file a question? Launchpad admins can manually remove these users, if necessary.
[17:48] <adeuring> afflux: I'll also file a bug about it.
[17:49] <afflux> hm, will do. thanks.
[17:50] <soren> adeuring: About --fixes=lp:12345... What exactly "doesn't work"? I just tried it, and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~soren/vmbuilder/libvirtoverwrite is now clearly related to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/vmbuilder/+bug/276322.
[17:51] <adeuring> soren: the bug status is not automatically set to "fix committed" of "fix released"
[17:52] <soren> adeuring: Ah.
[17:52] <salutis> cprov: I can't upgrade the package :(
[17:53] <salutis> cprov: 1 not upgraded (aptitude)
[19:03] <ahasenack> I used "also affects project" in a ticket and I shouldn't have, is there a way to *remove* the affected project from the ticket?
[20:19] <afflux> quite some people in bug 183685 complain about still getting emails after subscribing. Maybe someone should look into that.
[20:20] <beuno> afflux, any specific examples we can look into?
[20:22] <afflux> beuno: check the last 30 comments
[20:23] <kiko> afflux, do you mean unsubscribing?
[20:23] <afflux> woops.
[20:24] <afflux> Yes
[20:24] <kiko> afflux, they are probably subscribed to dupes.
[20:24] <kiko> and don't read email footers
[20:24]  * kiko says rude words
[20:25] <afflux> that's... not good indeed ;)
[20:25] <kiko> even after I invested DAYS of my life adding explicit information in the footers
[20:25] <bdmurray> heh
[20:25] <kiko> nielsen is right. UDR.
[20:25]  * beuno hugs kiko and keeps on walking
[20:26] <bdmurray> Is there a way to link a ppa to a bug? kind of like with bzr branches
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> bdmurray: Would you expect it to keep track of bugs _in_ packages in that PPA, or bugs _fixed_ by them?
[20:29] <beuno> bdmurray, short answer is no  :)
[20:29] <bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: Both, but I'd prefer to find bugs fixed by PPAs first
[20:30] <bdmurray> Is it on the radar at all?
[20:30] <beuno> bdmurray, there is a bug open, and I've seen discussion around it
[20:31] <bdmurray> I'll look for the bug then
[20:34] <bdmurray> Okay, I think I found it thanks!
[20:37] <kirkland> kiko: barry: hey guys, i'm hoping you can bump through two more mailing list approvals for me
[20:38] <barry> kirkland: i can when i'm done with this thing i'm doing :)
[20:38] <kirkland> barry: rock on ;-)
[20:39] <kiko> bdmurray, not easily, but you can put a URL in a comment. :)
[20:41] <bdmurray> kiko: right, but then those are really searchable which is what I'd find valuable
[20:43] <bdmurray> aren't
[20:44] <kiko> yeah, good point
[20:54] <barry> kirkland: done
[20:54] <kirkland> barry: awesome, thanks ;-)
[20:55] <barry> np!
[20:55] <kirkland> barry: i think we have now supplanted sourceforge for the ecryptfs project ;-)
[20:55] <barry> rock on
[20:55]  * barry really needs to look at ecryptfs
[21:42] <v6lur_> hi. what is "kde po format" as opposed to just "po format"?
[21:42] <kiko> v6lur_, I think they are almost the same
[21:49] <v6lur_> why the distinction, then?
[21:55] <kiko> I think there's something special about plural forms
[21:55] <kiko> I think so.
[21:58] <v6lur_> ok
[21:58] <v6lur_> thanks
[22:00] <kiko> v6lur_, yeah, that's it
[22:01] <kiko> from Whttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/kde-plural-forms e need to support special KDE plural form messages which are not using standard gettext support.
[22:01] <kiko> KDE 4.0 is switching over to standard gettext plural forms, but older KDE versions will still be around for a long time.
[22:01] <kiko> Implementation will provide support for legacy KDE plural forms: on import, pre-processing of KDE 3.5 (and earlier) PO files and correctly separating plural forms; on export, post-processing exported PO files to use KDE style plural fields instead of standard gettext fields.
[22:01] <kiko> This will fix #46982: a bug which caused all KDE translations with more than two plural forms to be rejected. Translators will now be able to complete KDE translations using Launchpad.
[22:04] <v6lur_> ok, thanks again:)
[22:08] <kiko> noprb
[22:25] <DrSmall> Greetings,
[23:17] <pjv> Is there a way I can put a small xml file in a launchpad project that will always (I would want to update it with subsequent releases) have the same url pointing to it from externally?
[23:22] <pjv> Is there a way I can put a small xml file in a launchpad project that will always (I would want to update it with subsequent releases) have the same url pointing to it from externally?
[23:23] <kiko> pjv, can you explain further?
[23:24] <pjv> well, I want to provide a version history with update information that can be retrieved in an automatic way
[23:24] <pjv> just a small text xml file
[23:25] <pjv> that has a link to it like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/18194682/AndroidsFortune.xml
[23:25] <kiko> pjv, why don't you add a download file to your project?
[23:25] <pjv> but then so I can change the file (or rather its contents) at new releases without having the link changed
[23:25] <kiko> ah
[23:25] <kiko> hmmmmmmmm
[23:25] <pjv> download files can be deleted and re-uploaded but the number in the link changes
[23:26] <kiko> yeah, it's true.
[23:28] <pjv> any way whatsoever (it can be a small hack)? maybe as an attachment in the blueprints or answers sections (that I am not so familiar with)?
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, I don't think we host any user content raw with a predictable URL
[23:30] <kiko> well
[23:30] <kiko> actually
[23:30] <kiko> we do in PPAs
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, and in bazaar!
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, just push a branch that contains the XML file
[23:30] <kiko> and you can use bazaar.launchpad.net to see it
[23:30] <pjv> hmm, ok let me see
[23:31] <pjv> eh oh yes my problem there was how do I say "latest revision"?
[23:32] <kiko> hmmm
[23:32] <pjv> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/16/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:32] <kiko> pjv, not beautiful eh?
[23:32] <pjv> this contains the number "16" which is the revision
[23:32] <pjv> I don't care how human-readable it is
[23:33] <kiko> beuno, do you know if there's an answer to pjv's question?
[23:33]  * beuno looks
[23:33] <kiko> I suspect you can't get latest there
[23:33] <kiko> i.e.
[23:33] <kiko> -1
[23:33] <beuno> yes you can!
[23:33] <pjv> but yeah, I was also wondering about the randomness of the other numbers
[23:33] <pjv> ah thats interesting
[23:34] <beuno> pjv, one sec, I'll let you in on the secret
[23:34] <pjv> thx for your effort
[23:38] <beuno> pjv, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/head:/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:38] <beuno> just replace the "16" with "head:"
[23:38] <kiko> beuno, man, that has got to be added to the FAQ
[23:39] <beuno> kiko, yeap yeap
[23:39] <pjv> ok, but does that solve it?
[23:39] <beuno> or to Logerhead itself!
[23:39] <pjv> what about the "-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40" part?
[23:39] <kiko> pjv, that varies, but I wonder
[23:39] <pjv> to be clear, I'm looking for something like: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/head:/androidsfortune.xml
[23:40] <kiko> beuno, can loggerhead give me the latest version of a file at a predictable URL?
[23:40] <beuno> pjv, I have a branch to be able to do that
[23:40] <pjv> or something less human-readable
[23:40] <beuno> kiko, not now, i ahve a branch I havne't mananged to finish yet
[23:40] <pjv> beuno, elaborate?
[23:40] <beuno> but "soon"
[23:40]  * beuno looks for his branch
[23:40] <pjv> ah, you're working on some project?
[23:41] <kiko> pjv, he's working on the code which runs on bazaar.launchpad.net
[23:43] <beuno> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amanica/loggerhead/abstract_paths
[23:43] <beuno> I seem to have deleted mine at some point
[23:43] <beuno> but that's one of the latest versions
[23:44] <beuno> so, there will be easy paths soon
[23:44] <beuno> just need to find time to fix some quirks
[23:44] <beuno> pjv, you can cheat and use head: for the time being
[23:44] <pjv> eh no I don't think that would cut it
[23:45] <pjv> because some parts in the link still depend on revisions/releases etc.
[23:45] <pjv> we were halfway there though
[23:45] <kiko> pjv, yeah. it's unfortunate because this would be the most flexible setup
[23:45] <kiko> easy to update etc
[23:45] <pjv> and using bazaar sure is the most logical way
[23:45] <beuno> pjv, the other bits are file_ids
[23:45] <beuno> they don't change
[23:46] <beuno> so, you just have to find out the file_id for the file
[23:46] <pjv> how can I change the contents of the file without changing the file_id's then?
[23:46] <beuno> pjv, bzr does that magic
[23:47] <beuno> for you  :)
[23:47] <pjv> hmm, that would be nice of bzr ;-) let me check
[23:47] <beuno> it even keeps the file_id if you rename that file
[23:48] <pjv> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/17/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:48] <pjv> seems you're right
[23:49] <pjv> jee thanks, thats great!!
[23:49] <beuno> :)
[23:49] <beuno> happy to help
[23:49] <kiko> pjv, so cool :)
[23:49] <pjv> the "head:" thing is cool
[23:50] <pjv> should make it public, or at least a public secret
[23:50] <pjv> if you care about karma, I had a question opened here: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/47071
[23:50] <pjv> might as well grab the honnors
[23:52] <beuno> pjv, I'll add the answer
[23:55] <beuno> ...when I get home
[23:55]  * beuno -> home
[23:56] <pjv> ok, well thanks alot, beuno and kiko
[23:57] <pjv> bye
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, sure thing
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, btw
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, what are you trying to do?
[23:57] <pjv> automating some stuff
[23:58] <beuno> pjv, the ubuntu art team is doing that as well
[23:58] <kiko> well that I could figure
[23:58] <kiko> but what exactly? :)
[23:58] <beuno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
[23:58] <beuno> (those are all linked from loggerhead)
[23:59] <pjv> getting app update information by version checking


[05:42] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lxpanel (xenial-proposed/universe) [0.8.2-1ubuntu2 => 0.8.2-1ubuntu2.1] (lubuntu)
 Two 16.04 bugfixes coming in, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxpanel/+bug/1537334 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/menu-cache/+bug/1635438
 Once these are let in, testing would be much appreciated
[08:11] <lubot1> <Jacob Kim> Gotcha
[08:11] <lubot1> <Jacob Kim> Tell me when they are let in and ill start qa
[09:45] -GitHub122:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] alamo18 opened pull request #9: Initial Transmission docs (master...master) https://git.io/vNyVO
 oh it came up that fast
 simon hab kewl booott
 :P
 @GitHub122, @tsimonq2
[11:33] <lubot1> <Jacob Kim> how should i do the QA for this bugfix?
 @Jacob Kim, The tl;dr is follow the bug report :)
[13:03] <lubot1> <Jacob Kim> oki


[00:09] <mattfly> hi
[00:09] <mattfly> They fixed the sddm black screen bug but have a unable to hibernate now.. aftr installing nvidia drivers
[00:24] <valorie> mattfly: last I tested, hibernation worked perfectly
[00:25] <mattfly> do you have nvidia drivers?
[00:25] <valorie> that said, my test was not on a computer using nvidia
[00:25] <mattfly> oh
[00:25] <mattfly> yes without nvidia drivers it works hre
[00:25] <valorie> I do on this laptop but can't test now
[00:25] <valorie> on the way out the door
[00:25] <mattfly> please test sometime!
[00:25] <valorie> does the commandline way to hibernate still work?
[00:27] <valorie> https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-command-to-suspend-hibernate-laptop-netbook-pc/
[00:27] <mattfly> all my tests were on commandline
[00:27] <mattfly> i didnt get to see a gui hibernate button so far :-(
[00:27] <valorie> oh, the K menu has the choice
[00:28] <valorie> well, suspend
[00:28] <valorie> so there are a few different commands -- did you test all of them?
[00:28] <mattfly> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uswsusp/+bug/1770491
[00:28] <mattfly> if you test it and have the same issue please add information there
[00:29] <mattfly> yes its been since the alpha im trying
[00:29] <mattfly> nvidia drivers = no more hibernation
[00:29] <valorie> thank you for filing that bug report, mattfly
[00:29] <mattfly> weird isnt it? looks like an old bug btw
[00:29] <mattfly> maybe is something related to the meltdown patches
[00:30] <valorie> could be indeed
[00:30] <mattfly> maybe i should try the newer kernel
[00:30] <valorie> you might ask if they know anything special in #ubuntu-devel
[00:30] <mattfly> Oh damn i think i was using 4.16.0 when it worked on 17.10
[00:30] <mattfly> cant remember well
[00:30] <mattfly> i should test this
[00:30] <mattfly> oh okay! thanks
[00:30] <valorie> beginning with the bug report so it is clear that you aren't asking for support
[00:31] <valorie> sorry, gotta go
[00:31] <valorie> thanks again for the BR
[00:32] <mattfly> see you
[01:31] <JMichaelX> i am trying to install the proprietary nvidia drivers in 18.04, and am seeing this: https://pastebin.com/WmxJBp4t
[01:31] <JMichaelX> any have a suggestion?
[01:36] <valorie> JMichaelX: how are you trying to install them?
[01:36] <valorie> in general, one should do it via driver-manager
[01:37] <JMichaelX> i was using 'ubuntu-drivers autoinstall'
[01:37] <valorie> if you are running kubuntu, that now shows up in systemsettings
[01:37] <valorie> ok
[01:37] <valorie> I usually just us krunner (alt+space) driver
[01:37] <JMichaelX> yes, i also attempted to use the driver-manager, but it also failed
[01:37] <valorie> and choose driver manager
[01:38] <valorie> just chose it now, and it doesn't want to install anything, so dunno
[01:38] <valorie> it has always Just Worked
[01:39] <JMichaelX> yeah. this is the first time i've had issues installing the nvidia driver in quite a long time
[01:40] <JMichaelX> but now i can find no way around this
[01:56] <valorie> JMichaelX: do you by chance have the ppa for drivers installed?
[01:56] <valorie> https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[01:57] <valorie> http://www.webupd8.org/2016/06/how-to-install-latest-nvidia-drivers-in.html
[01:57] <valorie> if you do decide to use it, please install ppa-purge as well
[01:58] <valorie> !ppa-purge
[03:16] <CosmicMac> valorie: oh cool! I needed ppa-purge the other day! =)
[03:17] <valorie> it works really well when you need it
[03:17] <valorie> and I have, in the past
[05:02] <mattfly> hello, is there any kdevelop user here that can maybe help to make kdevelop understand that the include directory has the headers files and i can include than with the <file.h> syntac ???
[05:02] <mattfly> like im compiling with gcc -Iinclude .... .. ..
[05:27] <valorie> mattfly: there is #kdevelop
[05:27] <valorie> but it sounds like maybe your $PATHs need setting?
[05:27] <valorie> #kde-devel if kdevelop doesn't help
[07:09] <luc4> Hello! Anyone who knows how the kde network manager works? It seems that for some reason mine stopped working after I copied my virtual machine, but I can’t find out why it is not listing my network interface. I understand I’m not supposed to be modifying /etc/network/interfaces directly, but I can’t find another solution.
[07:20] <ikonia> you need to be more specific than "stopped working"
[07:20] <ikonia> if you've copied your VM you'll find that somethings such as the mac address won't be able to be copied
[08:08] <luc4> ikonia: yes, I read that, but where should I make changes if that was the case?
[08:09] <luc4> ikonia: I already said that the interface is not shown in the network manager, ifconfig does not show it as being up. If I can provide more info please let me know.
[09:41] <crmlt> How can I change wallpaper if I set desktop right click as application menu?
[12:53] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:53] <vespertatia> Hallo
[12:54] <crmlt> Hi
[12:58] <crmlt> how could I disable the blu glow effect on right side which is showed when I move winodw to another dekstop?
[12:59] <BluesKaj> never seen that
[13:00] <crmlt> I found it
[13:00] <crmlt> Screen Edge (effect)
[13:01] <BluesKaj> ok
[13:04] <crmlt> btw
[13:05] <crmlt> How can I change wallpaper (open desktop preferences) if I get only  only apps menu when  right click on desktop
[13:05] <crmlt> ?
[13:24] <BluesKaj> no configure desktop?
[13:25] <BluesKaj> context menu?
[13:25] <acheronuk> crmlt: desktop toolbox (top right) has a configure desktop menu item
[13:26] <BluesKaj> top left here
[13:26] <acheronuk> if you disabled both, you might need to edit configs to get out of that hole
[13:27] <acheronuk> it's top right now in Kubuntu for left to right locales, but cam be moved where you like
[13:31] <BluesKaj> guess if one uses activities it migrates to the left, altho my memory isn't very good with smaller details
[13:42] <crmlt> ow should I set open new Konsole  window with menu bar hidden by default?
[13:53] <BluesKaj> BBL
[14:09] <IrcsomeBot2> himmAllRight was added by: himmAllRight
[14:46] <gonssal> Hi. Anyone using Kontact?
[14:55] <stripe> hi all, how do I get firefox to open on workspace 4 when I open it? cheers
[15:32] <werner__> Hi, I did a fresh installation with Kubuntu18.04 on a Thinkpad 410 (NVIDIA). OOOOPS - lots of probs. Let's startwith this one: X-window says: "Could not start ksmserver. Check your installation." Any clues how to proceed?
[15:34] <BluesKaj> werner__, let's not start with that one, can you list the errors please.
[15:35] <BluesKaj> if there are a lot of them then pastebin them
[15:37] <gonssal> Is anyone using KMail not able to do antying with the mouse in the folders list?
[15:37] <gonssal> in 18.04
[15:45] <instoogentall> hello, anyone having problems with the Firefox 60 option to hide the titlebar (CSD)?
[15:49] <SzykCech> I read very bad news about KDE: FF 60 on Gnome displays tabs on title bar, but it can do so on KDE - every body nag now that KDE is old-looking... When it can changed?!? Is it ever possible on Qt?!?
[18:03] <benbloom> Hello good people. I'm confused about the 18.04 LTS release. do-release-upgrade only offers me 18.04 if I use the -d switch, is Bionic not yet released as a true LTS?
[18:06] <mattfly> what about apt dist-upgrade ?
[18:06] <acheronuk> benbloom: upgrading from 16.04? upgrades from that are deliberately not enabled until the 18.04.1 point release comes out
[18:07] <benbloom> ahhhh. is that customary practice? I usually don't get around to it until then anyway. I'm just tired of Plasma constantly crashing. have been waiting for this update for a long time
[18:10] <acheronuk> benbloom: yes, it is. as LTS users, many of them organisations/businesses and users wanting maximum stability, are advised to wait for that so as many upgrade and other issues have been fixed as possible.
[18:10] <benbloom> Is it not advisible to make the 16.04-18.04 jump before 18.04.1 is released for a particular reason? as an LTS user, you can correctly assume stability, and basic functionality are vital for me.
[18:11] <YoshikoMori> Welp, my plasma is crashing weirdly this time around, but it's not that bad. i'm using 18.04 right now.
[18:13] <acheronuk> benbloom: yes, an LTS -> LTS upgrade is a big just in systems and packages, and as many development testers as there might be, it's inevitable that some issues only come to light once a release goes out for real
[18:14] <benbloom> ok. you anticipated my followup question before I hit enter acheronuk. Can someone tell me this: I ran do-release-upgrade -d thinking it would prompt me before committing to the upgrade. Looked over the changes and hit N to abort. program has left me with "[18:14] <benbloom>  but no prompt. am I safe?
 Hey everyone. My Kubuntu 18.04 freezes every time I use it. For the first 5 - 15 minutes everything's fine. Then it starts stuttering and freezes after another 1 - 5 minutes. … It happens since I installed it yesterday.
[18:14] <acheronuk> so that wait for the point release until normal upgrades is turned on is deliberate caution
[18:15] <mattfly> is anyone able to hibernate ?
[18:16] <acheronuk> benbloom: check /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:16] <acheronuk> if that still says xenial for your sources, all was restored safely
[18:16] <mattfly> using nvidia graphics cards?
[18:17] <mattfly> i reported this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uswsusp/+bug/1770491
[18:17] <mattfly> if anyone else has this or can test, please give some feedback there so this can be fixed asap!
[18:17] <benbloom> Thanks acheronuk. It does. I just hate to send a ^C to do-release-upgrade, seems really dangerous
[18:18] <acheronuk> benbloom: it would be if your sources had been switched, but seems you are ok
[18:23] <benbloom> And acheronuk, I take your point. Like I said, I've just been waiting to get to a stable plasma for a long time. And I'll wait, since I don't have time to deal with problems if they arise. I may just create a new installation and migrate over since its an LTS of Ubuntu, Plasma and Kernel
 @weltimeister, I just researched a little bit and found out that RAM and swap are always rising very fastly to their limits (I have 8GB RAM). … Is this a known bug?
 @weltimeister, I just found out that baloo_file_extractor is probably the one to blame. I know what Baloo is, but I do not know about baloo_file_extractor. … It uses 25% of my CPU and fills the RAM very fastly. … What does it do? … Is there anything I can do?
[18:56] <BluesKaj> baloo is a file indexer and while it scans your files it uses a fair amount of cpu depending on it's load capacity etc, weltimeister
 @BluesKaj, Thank you. So will it just stop sometime? It freezes my computer completely. Like already 25 times or more, so I have to shutdown the hard way.
[19:48] <gonssal> IrcsomeBot just delete it
[19:49] <diogenes_> IrcsomeBot, disable baloo from autostart
[19:49] <rishi> Are there any issues with memory leak on plasmashell  5.12 LTS?
[19:57] <jilocasin> afternoon everyone
 @diogenes_, Yes, I already figuered out, that I can disable it. Thank you. But I really want to use the search function as well.
[19:59] <jilocasin> I am having trouble switching input devices in the volume Control applet in KDE
[20:02] <jilocasin> Does anyone know why that might be?
[23:10] <edragon82> hi nice to meet you, i need some help with my kubuntu 18.04, i cant join to windows domain. anyone can help me?
 @edragon82, Are you trying to navigate Samba shares  on the win domain?
[23:17] <valorie> edragon82: can you say more about what domain you are trying to "join"?
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