[09:15] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:17] <clivejo> anyone having problems with the following error in xenial?
[10:17] <clivejo> sed: can't read /usr/share/plymouth/themes/kde-plymouth/kde-plymouth.plymouth: No such file or directory
[10:38] <Quintasan> Well, Ladies and Gentlemen - Merry Christmas. I'm going to keep New Year's wishes separate since I might come up with something original once in a while.
[11:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all, Merry Christmas!
[17:42] <clivejo> hi BluesKaj
[17:42] <BluesKaj> hey clivejo
[17:43] <clivejo> would you mind testing sddm on xenial?
[17:43] <BluesKaj> already do, works fine here :-)
[17:43] <clivejo> no problems?
[17:44] <BluesKaj> no problems at all
[17:45] <clivejo> nice, if we can get the version number corrected, that would be a RC I think
[17:45] <BluesKaj> version number?
[17:46] <clivejo> yeah, its wrong
[17:46] <clivejo> sddm 0.13.0-2ubuntu11
[17:46] <clivejo> should be 0.13.0-0ubuntu1 or the likes
[17:47] <clivejo> archive version is 0.11.0-0ubuntu11
[17:47] <BluesKaj> 0.11.0 here
[17:48] <BluesKaj> ubuntu 11
[17:48] <BluesKaj> 0ubuntu 11...yes
[17:49] <clivejo> did you test _Groo_ version in his PPA?
[17:49] <BluesKaj> no
[17:49] <clivejo> thats the archive version
[17:49] <clivejo> _Groo_ has packaged sddm version 0.13.0
[17:49] <clivejo> needs testers
[17:50] <clivejo> fixes a few bugs with sddm
[17:50] <BluesKaj> i installed the daily from tues after mucking up my desktop by enabling the staging ppa by mistake
[17:50] <clivejo> LP 1516837
[17:51] <clivejo> in his PPA here https://launchpad.net/~paulo-miguel-dias/+archive/ubuntu/peppa
[17:51] <clivejo> oh
[17:51] <clivejo> not a good idea
[17:52] <clivejo> BluesKaj: did you have that black login screen?
[17:55] <BluesKaj> no
[18:25] <BluesKaj> clivejo, ok installed  sddm version 0.13.0, works fine
[20:09] <soee_> bshah: someone used it: http://news.softpedia.com/news/you-can-now-install-linux-kernel-4-3-3-on-ubuntu-linux-mint-and-black-lab-linux-498073.shtml ?
[20:09] <soee_> sorry
[20:09] <soee_> *someone


[16:10] <fossfreedom> xnox, wim press asked me to ping you with regards to ubiquity-frontend-gtk-panel split - I've made the change to our seeds.  I've also tweaked our Budgie meta package to have the eoan config and uploaded into eoan proposed.
[19:44] <sea-gull_>


[00:00] <phillw> skaet: I only know one MOTU, that being Julien,
[00:01] <infinity> Getting someone else to sponsor Julien's package withouth him expressly saying it's ready for the archive isn't a good plan.
[00:01] <infinity> And if he's around to say it's ready, he can upload it himself.
[00:01] <infinity> skaet: dpkg --configure -a?
[00:01] <skaet> so it sounds like we'll need to wait until he's online again then
[00:01] <phillw> infinity: http://pastebin.com/emtpgLDF
[00:01] <infinity> skaet: (minus the ?)
[00:02] <infinity> phillw: None of that says exactly what he plans to upload, you're making assumptions that the PPA version is his final cut for the archive.
[00:03] <infinity> phillw: Respond to his email and ask him to either (a) upload, or (b) give a pointer to the exact bits he wants sponsored if he can't upload himself right now.
[00:03] <skaet> infinity,  update-notifier-common,  flashplugin-installer,  update-notifier ubuntu-desktop show errors
[00:03] <infinity> (I'd certainly prefer (a))
[00:05] <skaet> infinity, paste.ubuntu.com/1270270
[00:09] <infinity> skaet: Your update-notifier is out of date.
[00:09] <infinity> skaet: That's bug #1003100, already fixed.
[00:10] <skaet> infinity thanks.   ok,  I'll +1 it rather than starting a new one off.
[00:11] <infinity> skaet: Nothing to +1, just upgrade to a newer update-notifier. :P
[00:13] <skaet> infinity, was marking it as affects me too.
[00:30] <skaet> infinity,  manual apt-get install of update-notifier sorted it.    System updated to latest and updated to current now.
[01:46] <balloons> skaet, there was a bug with a broken package for a bit today
[01:46] <balloons> looks like they pointed it out to you
[01:57] <skaet> balloons,  yeah, added a note to the bug in case others stumble accross it.
[02:05] <silverarrow> hi
[02:05] <silverarrow> is anyone here?
[02:05] <silverarrow> how do I add lines to modprobe.d
[02:06] <silverarrow> I get "permission denied
[09:56] <dholbach> hello my testing friends
[09:56] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:56]  * pitti hugs dholbach
[09:57] <dholbach> :)
[09:57]  * dholbach hugs pitti and jibel
[09:58]  * jibel hugs dholbach back :)
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti, I was just going through the wiki of automated testing bits and wondered if maybe at least for the autopkgtest stuff they would be good in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
[10:14] <dholbach> what do you think?
[10:22] <pitti> dholbach: right, at least mentioning some links there would be good
[10:22] <dholbach> yes, working on it
[10:22] <pitti> like, to the spec, to the jenkins results, and to the example wiki page
[10:22]  * pitti hugs dholbach
[10:23] <dholbach> I'll just put in there what I understood up until now and I'll let you review it :)
[11:19] <dholbach> pitti, if you have a bit of time and could take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-packaging-guide/autopkgtest/+merge/128905 that'd be awesome
[11:19] <dholbach> I think it shouldn't  take too long to review
[11:21] <dholbach> (if you want to review it in the HTML form, you can branch it, run 'make html' and open _build/html/auto-pkg-test.html in your browser)
[11:25] <dholbach> ^ of course I'm happy about any other eyeballs on the article too :)
[11:48] <pitti> dholbach: back from lunch, looking
[11:49] <dholbach> yeehaw
[11:55] <pitti> dholbach: I followed up in the MP with a correction and a suggestion
[11:55]  * pitti hugs dholbach, danke!
[11:55] <dholbach> fantastico
[11:56] <dholbach> pitti, haha, I'm an idiot
[11:56]  * pitti disagrees
[11:56] <dholbach> pitti, the integration of upstream tests was in the ubiquity package
[11:56] <dholbach> haha
[11:56] <dholbach> nevermind
[11:56] <dholbach> I'll fix it
[11:56] <pitti> danke!
[12:02] <dholbach> pitti, updated
[12:03] <dholbach> pitti, if you're happy with it now - I'll see that we get it into the archive asap, etc
[12:04] <pitti> dholbach: LGTM, +1'ed on the MP
[12:04] <dholbach> perfect
[12:22] <jibel> dholbach, maybe you could write explicitly that packages in debian with a testsuite header will be added automatically when they are synced to Ubuntu.
[12:23] <dholbach> ah yes
[12:23] <dholbach> good point
[12:24] <dholbach> done
[12:25] <jibel> danke schön dholbach
[12:26] <dholbach> merci beaucoup à toi :)
[14:34] <dholbach> balloons, maybe you can have a look over http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html as well? just to see if it makes sense?
[14:35] <balloons> sure -- I'll even give it a whirl
[14:38] <dholbach> sweet
[14:41] <phillw> sorry for missing the meeting, was out shopping with my Mum!
[14:42] <smartboyhw> phillw, LOL
[14:42] <smartboyhw> phillw, nothing much
[14:44] <dholbach> balloons, I think that should give us a nice start for automated testing activities :)
[14:44] <smartboyhw> yeah yeah yeah
[14:45] <balloons> dholbach, I guess just ping you on grammar errors?
[14:45] <dholbach> balloons, sure, please do
[14:45] <dholbach> balloons, I'm happy to make whatever corrections you'd like to see
[14:46] <elfy> balloons: can I install an arm that works now - or do you want it left nor working ?
[14:46] <balloons> howdy elfy
[14:46] <balloons> I saw your mail and was wondering what you meant
[14:46] <elfy> hi
[14:46] <balloons> dholbach, "Also will packages in Debian with a testsuite header be automatically added when they are synced to Ubuntu."
[14:46] <balloons> last sentence needs fixing
[14:46] <balloons> elfy, so basically it didn't work?
[14:46] <dholbach> balloons, it's fixed in r175 already
[14:46] <dholbach> :)
[14:47] <elfy> well - as it is it is dead kaput fubar black and stays that way - I can leave it like that if someone has some wicked way to see what's wrong with it
[14:47] <elfy> or I can just carry on with a new daily balloons
[14:47] <balloons> the upgrade finished, it simply didn't work yes?
[14:48] <elfy> the upgrade was fine then reboot got nothing at all
[14:48] <elfy> no no no
[14:49] <balloons> ok, I think I got what your saying
[14:49] <elfy> I rebooted after the upgrade and it was fine - then I got that compiz apport - reported that - was really slow and unresponsive
[14:49] <elfy> then rebooted it again and it is now dead
[14:49] <balloons> if you wish, dd off the sdcard content
[14:49] <elfy> wut
[14:49] <balloons> and go back to a daily.
[14:49] <elfy> aah okey doke - thanks
[14:49] <balloons> when you write the new image
[14:50] <balloons> dd if=/dev/sdd of=/elfysmessupinstal.img ;_)
[14:50] <elfy> balloons: ok - then it's here if someone wants it
[14:51] <dholbach> balloons, apart from the grammar it looks good to you?
[14:52] <balloons> elfy, exactly. I will take the results back and see if anything further is wished to be done
[14:52] <elfy> ok
[14:52] <balloons> I'm more interested in making sure the final image works, as are you I'm sure ;-)
[14:52] <elfy> yea
[14:54] <balloons> we could just make cjohnston do it
[14:54] <smartboyhw> Good timing
[15:00] <elfy> balloons: ok - got them here now if anyone wants
[15:00] <balloons> ty elfy
[15:00] <balloons> I'll let you return your ARM board to a land of happiness again now :-)
[15:01] <elfy> thanks :)
[15:20] <silverarrow> does anyone know where alsamixer channel has gone?
[15:20] <silverarrow> It looks like there used to be one on freenode
[15:21] <silverarrow> never mind, there is alsa channel
[15:30] <balloons> bye smartboyhw
[16:12]  * balloons is trying fglrx
[16:12] <balloons> I've been putting off trying it due to breakages this cycle
[16:18] <balloons> reboot success!
[16:22] <balloons> xnox, you about?
[16:24] <xnox> balloons: yeah.
[16:24] <xnox> balloons: what's up =)
[16:25] <balloons> xnox, hey.. just thought I'd let you know I put the code up on lp from the demo
[16:25] <balloons> lp:~nskaggs/+junk/perfuncted
[16:25] <xnox> balloons: ;-)
[16:50] <elfy> balloons: that's better - it works now ;)
[16:50] <balloons> elfy, excellent
[16:51] <elfy> got that odd line at the top - but that's a known bug - responds fairlw well
[16:53] <balloons> yes, the line
[16:55] <elfy> why does the installer only create <400Mb of swap though I wonder
[16:56] <balloons> I believe it's a percentage of the disk space
[16:57] <elfy> ok
[16:57] <elfy> add some myself anyway :)
[16:58] <balloons> xnox can correct me if I'm wrong
[17:01] <xnox> elfy: it's a sliding factor between max ram size and other partitions having higher priority to take more levels and some minimum level....
[17:01] <elfy> ok - thanks xnox
[17:02] <xnox> which gives you 32 GB swap, if you server happens to have 32GB of ram =/ which kind of sucks on EC2/cloud/beefy servers.....
[17:02] <xnox> too much in one place, too little in another....
[17:04] <elfy> I'd love 32Gb of swap and the ram on this pandaboard :)
[17:06] <leadsled> Hello, got a question about Lubuntu alternate install
[17:11] <balloons> leadsled, ask away
[17:14] <kanliot> hi balloons
[17:14] <kanliot> sup
[17:14] <balloons> kanliot, hello
[17:14] <leadsled> balloons  the lubuntu alternate install image has been problematic on 10-8-2012, 10-9-2012 is todays image going to better?
[17:17] <kanliot> leadsled, what issue did you have?  is it in launchpad?
[17:21] <leadsled> kanliot,  debian installer issues hangs and install issues
[17:24] <kanliot> well since ubuntu dropped the alternate, i suppose all that is professionally tested is the 12.10 alternete server install
[17:24] <kanliot> that means the community
[17:27] <kanliot> please don't mistake my statement as an high-handed attitude leadsled
[17:31] <leadsled> kanliot, so I should file a bug against the debian installer?
[17:33] <kanliot> yup debian-installer
[17:33] <balloons> leadsled, yes, what kanliot said is correct
[17:33] <balloons> do you get a working install or no?
[17:35] <leadsled> balloons, I got a working install on alternate (entire-disk) but took 2 tries on each day
[17:36] <kanliot> i wonder if it's the new grub stuff
[17:38] <leadsled> balloons, (alternate install encryption) it would reboot nothing then a manual reboot I could enter the passphrase
[17:39] <balloons> quite odd
[17:40] <balloons> but yes, at this point, please make sure the lubuntu folks know of the issue. So the first reboot didn't boot into anything?
[17:41] <leadsled> balloons, yes nothing
[17:49] <cjohnston> wait.. what balloons ?
[17:52] <balloons> cjohnston, lol
[17:52] <balloons> just say yes
[17:52] <cjohnston> no
[17:52] <balloons> leadsled, so did grub load?
[17:52] <cjohnston> hey balloons... Who is your boss?
[17:53] <leadsled> balloons,  yes
[17:54] <balloons> why the infamous cjohnston of course
[17:54] <cjohnston> Well.. we all know that.. but being serious
[17:54] <balloons> leadsled, ok so after grubm what happened? you select ubuntu and it did what?
[17:55] <balloons> sat and wait for the disk to load
[17:55] <balloons> or for you to unencrypt (but didn't prompt)
[17:55] <balloons> cjohnston, jono is my boss
[17:56] <cjohnston> balloons: you may want to change your blueprints to reflect that then so that it stays that way
[17:56] <leadsled> balloons, I am try lubuntu AI again to refresh my memory, thanks
[17:57] <balloons> cjohnston, lol -- eh?
[17:57]  * balloons goes looking
[17:57] <cjohnston> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-r-testing-campaign
[17:57] <balloons> nice
[17:57] <balloons> I blame lp!
[17:57] <cjohnston> I blame balloons!
[17:58] <balloons> jono is taken by someone else in lp?
[17:58] <cjohnston> if you type the right username it works just fine
[17:58] <balloons> blasphemy!
[17:58] <cjohnston> always has been
[17:58] <balloons> done.. ty cjohnston
[17:59] <cjohnston> ;-)
[17:59] <cjohnston> I got some entertainment out of it atleast
[18:01] <kanliot> hah.  i am winning.  software-updater broke my grub installation. fixed it in less than 2 minutes
[18:03] <kanliot> but do i file the broken grub binary against grub-common or grub2-common or grub-pc?  can anyone guess?
[18:08] <kanliot> bug 1055173
[18:08] <kanliot> bug 1065173
[18:08] <balloons> ubot wins kanliot
[18:08] <balloons> haha
[18:08] <kanliot> not funny
[18:08] <kanliot> :)
[18:11] <kanliot> balloons how is phill doin
[18:12] <kanliot> he seemd a little under assault last time i chatted w/ him
[18:15] <balloons> yea..
[18:15] <balloons> he's feeling the end of cycle madness
[18:15] <kanliot> lol
[18:15] <kanliot> rofl
[19:43] <balloons> mmm.. pizza


[09:07] !RichiH:*! Good news, everyone! A certain viking blonde going by the name of Dahlskjvtzprxxx has been born some years ago. If you feel like spamming christel with well-wishes, now is the time.


[00:50] <zartoosh> hi on ubuntu 14.04 the network interface is named em1 and p1p6, how could I change this back to eth0 and 1. I have tried may different way as suggested by googling on this matter with no success.
[00:57] <Patrickdk> simple
[00:57] <Patrickdk> uninstall that damned biosdevname package
[00:57] <Patrickdk> update your initrd files
[00:57] <Patrickdk> reboot
[01:07] <zartoosh> Patrickdk, it did not work, here is what I did:  apt-get purge biosdevname; update-initramfs -u; reboot     ??
[01:07] <zartoosh> I can not ssh to the system,
[01:08] <Patrickdk> well, if the interfaces changed back to eth0/eth1 instead of em1/p1p6, oviously networking wouldn't work
[01:08] <Patrickdk> till you updated it atleast
[01:09] <zartoosh> yes, it did changed to the eth0/eth1. but I have to run dhclient manually to get Ip address on eth0.
[01:09] <Patrickdk> so?
[01:09] <Patrickdk> that says the issue is fixed
[01:10] <Patrickdk> did you expect dhclient to run automatically?
[01:10] <zartoosh> on next reboot i have to do the same thing again manually, I am hoping this be done once.
[01:10] <Patrickdk> that isn't so, you have to configure that yourself
[01:10] <Patrickdk> well, configure it to do so
[01:10] <zartoosh> so then there are some configuration also needed to be changed?
[01:11] <Patrickdk> sure, /etc/network/interfaces
[01:11] <zartoosh> okay great thanks I go changes those now and see how it goes.
[01:15] <zartoosh> that didn't do it, there should be some other configuration file needed to be modified?
[04:06] <xpistos> Hey all I am having some troubel when I try to use apt-get anything i do tells me E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution), but when I do  it tells me the disk is full although I have plenty of space
[04:06] <xpistos> Any Ideas?
[04:07] <cfhowlett> xpistos spring cleaning
[04:07] <xpistos> cfhowlett: I am all for that but not sure what to do
[04:07] <cfhowlett> xpistos sudo apt-get clean && sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get purge
[04:07] <xpistos> cfhowlett: what does that remove?
[04:07] <xpistos> unused stuff?
[04:07] <cfhowlett> xpistos  after that, run df -h
[04:08] <cfhowlett> xpistos your downloaded packages are retained in the apt/cache      - a major memory hog if you never empty it.  these commands do that
[04:08] <xpistos> cool. thanks
[04:10] <xpistos> cfhowlett: E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
[04:10] <cfhowlett> xpistos but no longer full disk?
[04:11] <xpistos> my home has 6 gb free
[04:11] <genii> I wonder how much /boot has
[04:11] <cfhowlett> xpistos holy!!!  that's pretty tiny ...
[04:12] <xpistos> cfhowlett: home has a small seperate drive. I have a /data drive with files on it
[04:12] <cfhowlett> xpistos ahhh.  nice.
[04:13] <xpistos> cfhowlett: I usually partition with a 300mb /boot, 20gb /, 20 gb /home and the rest is data
[04:13] <cfhowlett> xpistos for comparison: my hdd has 211G for /home and my ubuntustudio uses only 9.8G
[04:13] <xpistos> cfhowlett: and swap too of course
[04:14] <xpistos> cfhowlett: this is an old server and I am just trying to squeeze another few months out of it before I erase everything and put dsl or puppy on it or somethig
[04:15] <xpistos> cfhowlett: I am running disk analysis to be sure
[04:15] <cfhowlett> xpistos sounds about right.  I'm not the one to advise on server issues, but I do recall that server logs can easily grow exponentially ...
[04:15] <xpistos> that might be it
[04:17] <xpistos> cfhowlett: it thinks /usr is full
[04:17] <xpistos> ??
[04:18] <cfhowlett> xpistos yeah, that don't sound right.  ask over in #ubuntu         Don't want to give you bad intel...
[04:19] <xpistos> cfhowlett: Will do. thanks for giving it a go mate!
[04:38] <tohuw> Is there a compelling reason to use a 64-bit kernel for a lighweight (1-2 GB RAM) web server?
[04:48] <qman__> Software compatibility and platform unification
[04:49] <cfhowlett> tohuw compelling?  no.  more that if your system is 64 bit capable, there's little reason to run anything else.
[04:52] <tohuw> yeah. makes sense. this post was helpful: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/38369/running-64-bit-linux-with-750-mb-of-ram-worth-it
[04:54] <cfhowlett> tohuw perhaps ask in ##linux for additional input
[04:55] <tohuw> I feel comfortable enough with the input I’ve received where I’ve asked and looked thus far. :) It’s not life or death to begin with.
[05:07] <jak2000> cant create wp-content/uploads/2014/07 folder, the "ls -l" show me these results: drwxr-xr-x 2 jak ftp 4096 Jun 22 17:40 uploads   wich is wrong?
[05:16] <Braden`> Hello
[05:17] <Braden`> I just recently did an apt-get upgrade, and now whenever I try to do mysqldump, I get mysqldump: Couldn't execute 'START TRANSACTION /*!40100 WITH CONSISTENT SNAPSHOT */': Unknown command (1047).  Does anyone know how to solve that?
[05:42] <jak2000> how to fix this error: sudo: unable to resolve host ubuntu1204
[05:52] <vychune> im having trouble writing files to /var/www. Neither the admin or I can write to it. We've even done the 777 dumba** permissions and still cannot write. Any idea why?
[05:55] <vychune> helloooooo
[05:56]  * genii slides vychune a coffee
[05:57] <vychune> water will be fine
[05:57] <vychune> lol
[05:57] <genii> vychune: I'd normally take it on but it's very late here and don't want to mess up permissions, etc
[05:58] <vychune> genii:  :(
[05:58] <vychune> we've been messing it up all night
[05:59] <genii> vychune: If you don't have it sorted later today, you could try next time I'm online, which is usually 10am-5pm weekdays EDT
[06:00] <vychune> ok then
[06:01] <vychune> thanks for all you do, i see you help so much already
[06:01] <vychune> and isnt it like 2 on the east coast? lol genii
[06:02] <genii> Heh, yes, 2am here now.
[06:02] <genii> Up late due to Canada Day fireworks in the neighbourhood
[06:02] <vychune> LOL
[06:03] <vychune> that sucks
[06:03] <jak2000> genii any advice?
[06:04] <genii> jak2000: No more advice tonight, unfortunately.
[06:04] <genii> Bed soon.
[06:05] <jak2000> :)
[06:05] <vychune> get earplugs, bed sooner lol
[09:06] <ciastek> How to disable IPv6? I've tried with sysctl, but it doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/ciastek/b9d64d31bf473b2aaf77
[09:21] <peetaur2> ciastek: do you have an ipv6 address in some routing or dns config somewhere?
[09:26] <ciastek> peetaur2: not sure where to look for that info. `ip route` and `cat /etc/resolv.conf` shows no IPv6 addresses
[09:26] <peetaur2> that's the right place to look then.
[09:27] <peetaur2> (unless nsswitch.conf or some other thing has overridden them)
[10:38] <RuNnNy> I get this at boot "Stopping Read Required Files In Advanced"
[10:39] <RuNnNy> This is most likely due to some of the services I'm starting
[10:39] <RuNnNy> my web server gets initiated, but I can't ssh into the machine, it's stuck somewhere in boot
[12:19] <zul> hallyn_:  libvirt 1.2.6 is out
[12:23] <hallyn_> zul: yeah?
[12:24] <zul> yeah
[12:45] <gnuoy> jamespage, fwiw I've only found 4 packages in the openstack requirements.txt  which cannot currently be satisfied by the versions in utopic (python-msgpack, python-pecan, python-paramiko and python-neutronclient)
[12:46] <gnuoy> #
[12:57] <jamespage> gnuoy, good
[12:58] <jamespage> zul: gnuoy has been busy :-) ^^
[12:58] <zul> jamespage:  good...i like to keep him busy :P
[13:16] <gnuoy> jamespage, zul, I'm champing at the bit to resolve these 4, what's the next step ?
[13:17] <jamespage> gnuoy, update them
[13:17] <jamespage> :-)
[13:17] <zul> gnuoy: what jamespage said
[13:17] <jamespage> gnuoy, what's the version difference like?
[13:17] <gnuoy> jamespage, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7736717/
[13:18] <jamespage> gnuoy, I'd check 'rmadison XX' for each of those first
[13:19] <jamespage> gnuoy, you need to determine whether a) its already in utopic but held up in -proposed due to build or test failures b) not in utopic, but can be synced from Debian which does have the right version
[13:19] <gnuoy> ohh, python-pecan is fixed in utopic-proposed
[13:19] <jamespage> c) neither of the above and needs a upgrade in Ubuntu
[13:20] <jamespage> gnuoy, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
[13:20] <jamespage> tells you why its still in proposed
[13:20] <gnuoy> jamespage, thanks for the tips
[16:11] <GrueMaster> Can anyone help, I have a server running 14.04 (upgraded from 12.04), and now one of the Windows 7 VMs in qemu-kvm won't restart.  It complains that "numad is not available on this host", and the libvirt config keeps adding a numatune section.  Other VMs are fine.
[16:13] <cfhowlett> GrueMaster might query in #ubuntu-server
[16:14] <GrueMaster> Erm, this is #ubuntu-server
[16:14] <cfhowlett> GrueMaster D'OH!   right.  too many tabs.  sorry.
[16:35] <fridaynext> if i'm running a cronjob that needs to hit a url, does the url need to be in quotes?
[16:38] <RoyK> fridaynext: some cronjobs can be hard to quote up IMHO - make a shell script - test it - cron it
[16:53] <lordievader> Good evening.
[17:02]  * patdk-wk perfers params to always be in quotes
[17:02] <patdk-wk> it makes things more predictable
[18:07] <frogblue> 'lo, test    ALL = /usr/sbin/service apache2 restart allows my test user to restart apachae2, is there a one liner in sudoers to allow me all operations on apache2?
[18:08] <frogblue> I mean to allow my test user
[18:10] <sarnold> frogblue: try this:  test    ALL = /usr/sbin/service apache2 *
[18:11] <frogblue> nope
[18:11] <frogblue> bah gonna write 4 lines and that'll do
[18:13] <tonyyarusso> Hi, we'd like to have SpamAssassin listen on a Unix socket rather than TCP, but I don't see any indication of a "normal" location for that socket.  My first thought was to have it in a subdirectory, eg. /var/run/spamassassin/spamd.sock, but since the /var/run/spamassassin directory doesn't exist after a reboot currently, I'd need to either a) edit the init script to create the directory first, and remember to do that if any ...
[18:13] <tonyyarusso> ... future package upgrades overwrite my change, or b) put it in /var/run, ignoreing the FHS recommendation that if an application has more than one file it should use a subdirectory.  Thoughts?
[18:14] <sarnold> frogblue: d'oh. yeah, a handful of lines is nice and easy.
[18:14] <frogblue> arf :)
[18:18] <frogblue> am in the sudoers man5 but with no luck so far
[18:19] <sarnold> frogblue: no kidding. that's a rough manpage.
[18:25] <frogblue> hmmm, in fact     test    ALL = /usr/sbin/service apache2 allows the user to restart but not reload
[18:26] <frogblue> eventhough estart is not mentionned
[18:29] <sarnold> frogblue: tbh i'm always skeptical of extra arguments with sudo; I'd rather write a stupid little C helper if I wanted to allow executing one specific program with specific arguments but not other arguments..
[18:29] <frogblue> right but has to be knowledgeable in C, which is not my case :) nor in any kind of languages in fact
[18:50] <frogblue> sarnold, that was a bad syntax from me...  right syntax  test ALL=(ALL) /usr/sbin/service apache2 re*
[18:50] <frogblue> had spaces before/after =
[18:52] <sarnold> frogblue: ARGH. I hate sudo. :)
[18:52] <sarnold> frogblue: thanks for reporting back :)
[18:54] <frogblue> but i don't get what the second ALL is for. working as well without it
[18:56] <frogblue> https://kura.io/2010/01/13/howto-debian-sudoers-explained/
[18:57] <histo> frogblue: what second all?
[18:57] <frogblue> test ALL=(ALL)
[18:57] <frogblue> after =
[18:58] <histo> any host
[18:58] <frogblue> that's the first
[18:58] <histo> as any user
[18:58] <histo> sorry i'm tired
[18:59] <frogblue> can't understand "is the user(s) to allow the user to run commands as "
[19:00] <histo> frogblue: what?
[19:00] <GrueMaster> Reposting as I have had no response.  Can anyone help, I have a server running 14.04 (upgraded from 12.04), and now one of the Windows 7 VMs in qemu-kvm won't restart. It complains that "numad is not available on this host", and the libvirt config keeps adding a numatune section. Other VMs are fine.
[19:00] <frogblue> histo a sentence i found in a web page explaining sudo
[19:00] <histo> frogblue: yeah Let's them run as any user
[19:01] <histo> s/Let's/lets/
[19:01] <frogblue> oh well. have this command working now, not going to blow my neurons
[19:01] <frogblue> histo, still don't get
[19:01] <histo> it's tricky. if you man sudoers and scroll down quite a bit for some of the examples it will make sense
[19:02] <sarnold> hallyn_,zul, any ideas with GrueMaster's qemu-kvm issue? ^^
[19:03] <zul> GrueMaster:  nope
[19:03] <zul> sarnold:  i mean nope
[19:03] <sarnold> zul: thanks :)
[19:03] <frogblue> histo, ok. had trouble understanding running as another user. understand now sudo -u anotheruser
[19:04] <frogblue> guess am a bit tired as well :)
[19:04] <frogblue> thx for the help
[19:04] <hallyn_> sarnold: GrueMaster: might just try 14.10 to see if that fixes it;
[19:06] <hallyn_> GrueMaster: you mean that you 'virsh edit domain', remove the numatune section, save and quit, and the numatune section gets re-added?
[19:06] <hallyn_> GrueMaster: if so, please go ahead and open a bug, and append your domain .xml.  will have to try to reproduce, as it certainly doesn't do that for me
[19:12] <toyotapie> My boss just made me setup an OpenVPN tunnel between a Ubuntu server and a Windows 2000 Server. I think my boss is trying to remind me how appreciative I should be that we can run Ubuntu at work.
[19:13] <jrwren> windows 2000? as in, 14 years old?
[19:17] <hallyn_> windows 2000, as in newer than xp
[19:17]  * hallyn_ is an optimist
[19:18] <jrwren> 2000 was before XP.
[19:25] <RoyK> toyotapie: hehe - win server 2k12r2 just came out, perhaps time for an update? ;)
[19:26] <RoyK> jrwren: win2k arrived just before windows ME
[19:27] <RoyK> jrwren: but then, win2k was based on the winnt platform, which arrived in winxp, so not that ugly as winme
[19:28] <toyotapie> True, but it's still really old in IT time.
[19:28] <RoyK> jrwren: that is, the winnt platform arrived with OS/2, microsoft stole it and named it winnt 3.1 etc etc etc
[19:30] <genii> IBM and MS had a split in 92-93 and the courts decided both could use the same kernel to build on. So IBM's became OS/2 and Microsoft's became the NT core.
[19:30] <genii> They evolved from there.
[19:34] <jrwren> RoyK: i lived all that. I remember :)
[19:34] <RoyK> jrwren: ;)
[19:50] <toyotapie> To be fair, the Windows 2000 server does what the customer wants it to do.
[19:51] <toyotapie> mainstream support for windows 2000 only ended 9 years ago
[20:24] <RoyK> tohuw: you'd be better off with an ubuntu 8.04 than with win2k
[20:25] <tohuw> RoyK: ?
[20:25] <tohuw> oh, wrong highlight
[20:25] <RoyK> perhaps
[20:26] <RoyK> toyotapie apparently left
[20:28] <`Fibz> i dont know the mysql password for this machine. i have tried purging mysql and tried using tasksel to remove and re-install the lamp stack but when i re-install, it never asks for a mysql root password. how can i rebuild the stack from scratch without re-installing ubuntu?
[20:32] <RoyK> `Fibz: just start mysqld with --skip-grant-tables
[20:32] <genii> `Fibz: Basic process: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MysqlPasswordReset   although perhaps use service mysqld stop instead of the old init.d way shown there
[20:34] <RoyK> `Fibz: or perhaps jfgfi ;)
[20:34] <`Fibz> ?
[20:36] <RoyK> http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/images/bart.gif
[20:37] <`Fibz> if you dont have anything nice to say, perhapse keep it to yourself
[20:39] <RoyK> `Fibz: I did give you a good advice
[20:40] <GrueMaster> hallyn_: Sorry for not getting back, work laptop crashed - couldn't connect to my irc server (Quassel).
[20:40] <GrueMaster> I found out the reason the virsh edits were not sticking was another user was also trying to change the system settings.  He has been slapped for his efforts.
[20:41] <GrueMaster> But still, what is the numad daemon and where is it in the repo?  Google had one reference to Fedora (shudder).
[20:43] <GrueMaster> And I can't really do much with 14.10 other than testing, as this is a production environment.  I've fought hard to get everything on Ubuntu LTS (12.04/14.04) for the last 2 years.  Was a mixed bag of OpenSuse, Fedora, FreeNAS, etc.
[21:01] <hallyn_> GrueMaster: so long as removing it by hand sticks, you're ok.  how it got in there, my guess woudl be virt-manager?  Did you use vir-tmanager under precise to create the domain?
[21:02] <GrueMaster> Yes originally.
[21:02] <GrueMaster> It worked fine until we tried to bump it to 4 vcpus.
[21:03] <hallyn_> yeah, i still think this is worth looking into, but i'm not sure where to start.  Could you create a new vm under vir-tmanager and see if it adds the stanza again?  Then file a bug
[21:03]  * hallyn_ out, but bbl
[21:37] <adam_g> hallyn_, do you know if libvirt recreates required sub-directories in its state path /var/lib/libvirt/  if they get removed?
[22:08] <hallyn_> adam_g: i think so...  i've never had to re-create them myself when i've messed things up
[22:09] <memoryleak_> hi
[22:11] <memoryleak_> hi
[22:12] <sarnold> hello memoryleak_; note that in huge channels it's not too common for people to expect replies to 'hi', since that'd be a few hundred responses...
[22:12] <sarnold> nothing else would ever be discsussed :)
[22:12] <memoryleak_> right :)
[22:14] <memoryleak_> sorry for off-topic, but how can I find a channel operator?
[22:20] <sarnold> memoryleak_: the #ubuntu-ops channel has some
[22:20] <sarnold> memoryleak_: in general, /msg chanserv access list #channelname  ought to show you
[22:22] <memoryleak_> sarnold: Thanks, that's very helpful!
[23:19] <jrwren> uvt-kvm list shows a VM, but virsh with system or session doesn't list it
[23:19] <jrwren> *doh* and immediately after asking, I remember virsh doesn't list inactive by default


[23:34] <blahdeblah> Morning folks. Any of you run sensors-applet on 10.04?  I installed it, but it's not showing up in the list of available applets, and i'm wondering if i have to do something else...


[14:02] <Hybrid512> Hi
[14:05] <Hybrid512> One small question : I sometime have some units that are stuck in "blocked" status because of apache2 not running (or ports not open but that's most of the time related to the same issue). I'm not talking anout why apache2 is not running, this is due to a known issue with HA and certificates and there is a simple workaround in that case. My
[14:05] <Hybrid512> question is, when I fix the problem and restarted Apache2, it takes sometaimes many minutes before the unit switch to the ready state because I suppose there are some scheduled checks and until that check is not triggered, status doesn't change.
[14:06] <Hybrid512> When units are in error state, I can use the "juju resolve" command that retrigger the hook immediately, is there something similar with blocked units ? Is there a way to force triggering a check so that a fixed unit can switch to the ready state immediately ?
[14:07] <Hybrid512> and not by waiting minutes
[14:29] <stickupkid> Hybrid512, that's a good question... from reading the code around resolve, it checks just for the error status... I'll ask around to see if and why that can't encompass blocked
[14:29] <Hybrid512> I found an old bug reports towards this (for juju 2.0 beta) but this was never answered
[14:30] <Hybrid512> right now, something similar to "juju resolve" would be great ... actually, I would have thought "juju resolve" would do the trick but I then get an error message saying the unit is not in an error state :/
[14:47] <stickupkid> Hybrid512, yes because we treat blocked and error as two different states
[14:47] <stickupkid> manadart, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12279 gce
[14:48] <Hybrid512> stickupkid agreed but then, would be great to have a similar command to do that ... something like "juju unblock" or something
[21:31] <jam> thumper: /wave
[21:56] <thumper> jam: /wave back


[09:06] <artnay_> hey klepas
[09:09] <klepas> hey
[09:09] <Tm_T> good morning
[09:09] <Tm_T> I finally have working gimp & inkscape
[09:10] <Tm_T> I have idea for background, I'll show soon something, I hope
[09:11] <Tm_T> in the meantime, there's ubuntu logo svg somewhere?
[09:15] <klepas> yea
[09:15] <klepas> search the wiki
[09:15] <klepas> i can't remember the exact page :o)
[09:15] <Tm_T> heh, I thought so
[09:16] <Tm_T> my idea is to combine ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu logos
[09:17] <artnay_> so you end up with... kedubuntu?
[09:17] <artnay_> hey you two, you haven't vote yet
[09:18] <Tm_T> what?
[09:18] <artnay_>  /topic
[09:18] <klepas> i will
[09:18] <klepas> soon
[09:18] <artnay_> hmm, I wonder where did the "d" go
[09:18] <artnay_> nevermind
[09:19] <artnay_> klepas: wiki has been updated a lot, next thing would be creating /UbuntuArtwork
[09:20] <Tm_T> what vote.... I'm too confused, afraid so
[09:20] <artnay_> check the first lines at News section at ArtworkTodoProposal
[09:21] <Tm_T> yeah, I'm on vote wikipage, but still don't understand
[09:21] <Tm_T> .... AAAH!!!!
[09:22] <artnay_> ding! ;)
[09:22] <Tm_T> hate these days
[09:22] <artnay_> you hit the jackpot
[09:22] <artnay_> it's friday after all
[09:22] <Tm_T> :(
[09:23] <Tm_T> hey, if I do wallpaper, does it really matter if I use svg or only png?
[09:23] <Tm_T> I'm still more "home" with gimp and pixels than inkscape and vectors
[09:23] <artnay_> svg would be better, or at a gimp file with layers in it
[09:25] <Tm_T> aye
[09:25] <artnay_> but hey, you're the one who is doing it. it's up to you
[09:26] <Tm_T> joop, liskin jotain gimpill aluksi, ny eiii jaksa ->
[09:26] <artnay_> ok
[09:26] <artnay_> :)
[09:26] <Tm_T> och samma p svenska ;-P
[09:27] <artnay_> varfr inte?
[09:32] <Tm_T> sorry, truth is I don't speak nor write swedish at all :p
[09:32] <Tm_T> ;)
[09:34] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1.png
[09:34] <Tm_T> that's my main idea
[09:34] <Tm_T> and background for that will have sam kind of theme
[09:34] <Tm_T> same
[09:35] <Tm_T> artnay_: what you think?
[09:36] <artnay_> it's funny but quite "busy"
[09:36] <Tm_T> yeah
[09:36] <artnay_> but it's still ok
[09:36] <Tm_T> my point is to show that they all three has too much common to be thought separate
[09:36] <artnay_> go on, background will balance it
[09:36] <Tm_T> true
[09:54] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1b.png
[09:54] <Tm_T> what a beauty ;-P
[09:54] <Burgundavia> Tm_T, nice logo, but the background is too noisy for me
[09:55] <Tm_T> it is
[09:55] <Burgundavia> why not use one of the colours from each distro for each section?
[09:55] <Tm_T> I was just playing around with BRIGHT colours
[09:55] <Burgundavia> ie, the part by ubuntu would be brown, etc.
[09:55] <Tm_T> that's not what I do usually
[09:55] <Tm_T> Burgundavia: hum, blue is for K, red for edu?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:56] <Tm_T> hum, why not
[09:56] <Tm_T> and less saturation for red I guess, or is it too red?
[09:57] <Burgundavia> let see with the default background colours
[09:57] <Tm_T> hummm, dunno about defaults, can't even remember what was defaults in kubuntu :p
[09:58] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1a.png <- background untouched
[09:58] <Tm_T> too blue to all others but Kubuntu <3
[09:59] <Burgundavia> that doesn't look bad
[09:59] <Burgundavia> your Ubuntu colours for the ring look off
[09:59] <Tm_T> aye
[09:59] <Tm_T> off?
[09:59] <Tm_T> straight from "official" logo
[10:00] <Burgundavia> maybe it is just that the yellow is quite jarring
[10:00] <Burgundavia> what about swapping the kubuntu and ubuntu sections
[10:00] <Burgundavia> ?
[10:00] <Tm_T> hmm, maybe
[10:00] <Tm_T> but, do, lots of lots of undo and redo :p
[10:00] <Tm_T> s/do/doh
[10:01] <Tm_T> but maybe
[10:02] <Tm_T> humm, if I just change colours of ubuntu part?
[10:02] <Burgundavia> hmm, I wouldn't go for it
[10:03] <Tm_T> I mean I take colours of other ubuntu part
[10:04] <Tm_T> ok ok, I'll swap it
[10:04] <Tm_T> ;)
[10:09] <Tm_T> Burgundavia: c
[10:11] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1c.png
[10:12] <Tm_T> food now, all suggestions welcome so just keep hilighting me ;)
[10:55] <Tm_T> going to deep blue: http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1d.png
[11:32] <Tm_T> action shot: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/foo_001.png
[11:32] <Tm_T> well, atleast that works just fine in Kubuntu desktop of mine <3
[11:59] <klepas> laptop of my dreams -> http://www-5.ibm.com/se/news/archive/images/computers/thinkpad/ThinkPad_X41_Tablet/ThinkPad_X41_Tablet_2.jpg
[11:59] <klepas> that screen tablet has full The GIMP support!
[11:59] <Tm_T> =)
[11:59] <klepas> in fact the entire laptop has complete Linux support on over 5 different distros
[11:59] <klepas> including source, rpm and deb based distros
[12:00] <klepas> but the price tag is so...
[12:00] <klepas> grrr
[12:00] <klepas> over 2300 USD
[12:00] <klepas> bbl
[12:01] <Tm_T> :)
[12:49] <artnay_> Tm_T: lightnings on the background don't look quite right. how about doing svg of the background so people could set whatever colours they like? I'm pretty sure inkscape could trace the edges of logo :o
[12:50] <artnay_> and what about so beloved xubuntu?! :p
[12:50] <Tm_T> artnay_: well, it's not in the frontpagee of ubuntu.com ;)
[12:51] <Tm_T> artnay_: lightnings? and yes, svg would be better
[12:51] <Tm_T> artnay_: I haven't really spent time with this yet as you see ;)
[12:52] <artnay_> I guess there's no official xubuntu logo yet, so pick up the one you like
[12:53] <artnay_> klepas: any AUC news?
[12:54] <artnay_> can you keep us informed by editing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuArtworkWebsite ?
[12:54] <Tm_T> artnay_: nah, I could add that mouse to center, but nah nah
[12:55] <artnay_> wiki is getting better (a little by little) but AUC is a question without an answer ;)
[01:01] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-1f.png
[01:02] <Tm_T> artnay_: btw you think it's too sharp iwht full colours? and should I reduce shadow?
[01:03] <artnay_> therefore I asked for edges so I could fill it by myself :p
[01:05] <artnay_> well kubuntu's blue doesn't blend so well with yellow and red (imo), at least I focused more on the blue element than the others... so maybe it should have a bit opacity
[01:05] <artnay_> svg so we can play with it, plz ;) would save some time
[01:06] <artnay_> I don't mind the shadows actually, it depends on the background
[01:17] <Tm_T> aye
[01:18] <Tm_T> artnay_: ok ok, I'll do it as soon as I can, now I have to go to bank and post :) -->>
[01:18] <artnay_> bye
[01:27] <Tm_T> artnay_: bah, wont go anywhere
[01:27] <Tm_T> one of those days I can't stand
[01:28] <Tm_T> artnay_: I'll do that today or during weekend, and so on, but don't hold your breath for it ;)
[01:28] <Tm_T> coffee and relax for awhile ->
[01:29] <artnay_> ok, drop us a link when you're done. thanks


[22:53] <mup> Bug #1964644 opened: [3.1] Adding overlapping subnets in fabric breaks deployments <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1964644>


[17:35] <saiarcot895> lcy01-* builders are stuck in cleaning state
[17:45] <cjwatson> saiarcot895: pokeding
[17:46] <cjwatson> er, poking
[19:06] <acheronuk> publisher issues today?
[19:46] <acheronuk> seems waits are a tad excessive :/
[23:46] <wgrant> acheronuk: Which publisher?


[00:00] <Lenin_Cat> can anyone explan why I was banned from offtopic
[00:14] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[00:14] <Seeker`> @login
[00:14] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[00:15] <bazhang> @login
[00:16] <Seeker`> Lenin_Cat: any guesses?
[00:16] <Lenin_Cat> umz
[00:17] <Lenin_Cat> implusive
[00:17] <Lenin_Cat> maybe
[00:17] <Lenin_Cat> Seeker`:
[00:17] <Shizuo> I bet they bannes you just for the lulz
[00:17] <Seeker`> Shizuo: how can we help you?
[00:17] <bazhang> Shizuo, please part the channel
[00:17] <Shizuo> Love is a good start
[00:17] <bazhang> Lenin_Cat, hang on for a second
[00:17] <Lenin_Cat> can I have a optell me why
[00:18] <Shizuo> No you can't. Ops are like little Stalins
[00:18] <Shizuo> "No channel for you! One year!"
[00:18] <bazhang> jussi01, elky_ you around ^^
[00:20] <Seeker`> Pici Mez mneptok Tm_t
[00:20] <Seeker`> can we get Shizuo removed?
[00:21] <Lenin_Cat> and can sommeone help me here
[00:22] <Seeker`> Lenin_Cat: you need to talk to the op that banned you
[00:22] <Lenin_Cat> I dont know who that is
[00:22] <Seeker`> which was topyli
[00:22] <bazhang> Lenin_Cat, you need to stick around til we can get the shizuo situation sorted
[00:22] <Lenin_Cat> :<
[00:22] <bazhang> or you can part now and come back later Lenin_Cat
[00:23] <Lenin_Cat> ill stay for a little
[00:23] <Lenin_Cat> if no info then
[00:23] <Lenin_Cat> ill leave
[00:25] <tsimpson> they'll be back...
[00:25] <Lenin_Cat> ok ill come back later
[00:26] <bazhang> Lenin_Cat, you were banned after a !stop was called and you continued anyway, also a very large number of marks against you for mentioning politics
[00:26] <bazhang> argh
[00:34] <LjL> what the FUCK was shizuo doing here explaining to lenin_cat why he's banned?
[00:34] <bazhang> unko may be trolling, just watching now
[00:35] <LjL> @mark shizuo He's not welcome in this channel if he intends to use it to foster trolling.
[00:43] <LjL> but perhaps more importantly, how did shizuo just know to join a couple of minutes before lenin_cat would?
[00:44] <bazhang> in cahoots?
[00:44] <bazhang> seems like a lot of that tag-teaming going on here lately LjL
[00:45] <LjL> i don't know, i thought lenin_cat and shizuo came from very different leagues, shizuo being a professional troll and commiecary being mostly just an idiot
[00:45] <bazhang> cf reid__ and imachine for example (seemingly disconnected)
[00:46] <LjL> uhm i was wondering about imachine, i saw him trolling (or being banned, or something) briefly yesterday and it rings a very old bell
[00:47] <LjL> anyway, for the record - i don't intend to remove shizuo's ban from here
[00:47] <bazhang> he was since unbanned and has been quiet since re-joining
[00:47] <LjL> people are normally not permanently banned from #ubuntu-ops, but people actually abusing #ubuntu-ops *itself* like he did (especially when other people are looking for an appeal) should be, imo
[00:50] <unop> hey LjL
[00:51] <LjL> hi unop
[00:51] <unop> did you invite me in?
[00:51] <LjL> yeah
[00:51] <unop> ohh, what's up?
[00:51] <LjL> unop: hope it's not too inappropriate a place to inquire about this - i joined #bash (for some reason) and saw you were telling a Shizuo fellow to give it a rest
[00:52] <LjL> i was wondering whether that fellow was being, you know, a troll.
[00:52] <unop> he's always trolling .. you see him in ##linux being an airhead quite a lot
[00:54] <LjL> unop: so he's doing it in several unrelated channels? interesting he's still on the network.
[00:54] <unop> i've seen in ubuntu on quite a few occasions too
[00:54] <unop> #ubuntu i mean
[00:54] <LjL> unop: mhm, but he's banned from there now
[00:55] <LjL> unop: ok, i was just curious about his deeds in #bash. keep in mind please that when someone's being seriously disruptive in several channels at once, it might be worthwhile giving #freenode a heads up about it
[00:57] <unop> LjL, yea, we've told the ops in there - but so far nothing's been done
[01:19] <Lenin_Cat> is topyil here
[01:19] <Lenin_Cat> no not
[01:57] <bazhang> @bansearch gentubuntu
[02:58] <Lenin_Cat> is topyil here
[02:58] <Lenin_Cat> >_<


[08:52] <KGB-2> pango Jeremy Bicha 419554 * commented merge request !6 * https://deb.li/FaXG
[09:33] <KGB-2> pango Jeremy Bicha 419565 * commented merge request !6 * https://deb.li/1j9d
[09:38] <KGB-0> pango Nathan Teodosio 419570 * commented merge request !6 * https://deb.li/3qaev
[09:40] <KGB-0> pango pristine-tar b09f67e Jeremy Bícha pango1.0_1.51.0+ds.orig.tar.xz.delta pango1.0_1.51.0+ds.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for pango1.0_1.51.0+ds.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/Gqdg
[10:26] <KGB-2> gnome-shell Simon McVittie 419589 * commented merge request !71 * https://deb.li/mfKN
[10:52] <KGB-0> gnome-shell Simon McVittie 419594 * commented merge request !71 * https://deb.li/003G
[15:00] <juliank> what's up with the thunderbird deb?
[15:02] <juliank> thunderbird 115 was released a month ago
[15:02] <juliank> oh but so was that 102 point release
[15:02] <juliank> thunderbird snap forced transition when? :D
[15:51] <juliank> Hmm, my thunderbird snap is connected to wayland but connection is not working :(
[15:52] <KGB-2> adwaita-icon-theme Simon McVittie 419686 * commented merge request !8 * https://deb.li/1LVI
[15:52] <juliank> weird, snap disconnect thunderbird:x11 makes wayland work
[15:53] <juliank> ah no wrong thunderbird :D
[15:54] <juliank> Aug 15 17:54:17 jak-t14-g3 kernel: audit: type=1400 audit(1692114857.554:276): apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" class="net" profile="snap.thunderbird.thunderbird" pid=2032246 comm="thunderbird-bin" family="unix" sock_type="stream" protocol=0 requested_mask="send receive connect" denied_mask="send connect" addr=none<EMAIL_ADDRESS>peer="unconfined"
[15:54] <juliank> hmm
[19:11] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center signed tags 5266e3c Jeremy Bicha upstream/45_beta * Upstream version 45~beta * https://deb.li/3drDs
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center pristine-tar 84d6e8c Jeremy Bícha gnome-control-center_45~beta.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-control-center_45~beta.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-control-center_45~beta.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/dAr1
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 92b62f5 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 405 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3Y2TN
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 71349d8 Marco Melorio panels/ (24 files in 3 dirs) * privacy: Add device security page * https://deb.li/3pnYV
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 5c75c03 Marco Melorio panels/ (37 files in 5 dirs) * privacy: Add thunderbolt page * https://deb.li/ijr2g
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 0dcebee Marco Melorio panels/privacy/ (8 files) * privacy: Format all UI files * https://deb.li/xALi
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 287e237 Marco Melorio panels/privacy/ cc-firmware-security-dialog.c cc-firmware-security-dialog.ui cc-firmware-security-page.c cc-firmware-security-page.ui * firmware-security: Simplify widgetry * https://deb.li/3K26h
[19:12] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 4a0d924 Eric Daigle panels/power/ cc-power-panel.c cc-power-panel.ui * cc-power-panel: add battery health section * https://deb.li/9n82


[07:00] <darkxst> Noskcaj, hmm, I would have though you would well know where to get help for gnome stuff! (re MOTU discussions)
[07:02] <mgedmin> octoquad, what kind of window focusing issues?  I haven't noticed any
[07:02] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I asked upstream, he said WIP. I think i mentioned it here one time, but i wasn't going to chase too much up till gnome 3.14 was done
[07:02] <Noskcaj> brb
[07:03] <darkxst> Noskcaj, CSD's patches are fairly simple with 3.14, you could have the -desktop team, or even me
[11:44]  * eliasps waves
[13:36] <AndChat|189569> hi all
[15:44] <octoquad> mgedmin, I'm having this on two seperate machines, one freshly installed with 14.04 and upgraded to 14.10 and one from 13.04 -> 13.10 -> 14.04 -> 14.10.  If Window is used for focus, the only way I can focus on it is to click on the title bar. Any other part of the window including input boxes does not focus on the desired window. Sloppy kind a works for me, but it's quirky when you move the mouse out the way with dual view and it focuses on ano
[15:44] <octoquad> ther app while typing a e-mail as in example and it loses focus
[15:45] <octoquad> I've decided to revert the ppa, and just setup a new partition for VV testing and share my home directory between the two.
[16:14] <mgedmin> octoquad, what focus mode do you use?  I use sloppy focus myself
[16:15] <mgedmin> there was a change in sloppy focus behavior in gnome 3.something-recent-but-not-very: actual focus change happens a second after you stop moving the mouse
[16:16] <mgedmin> instead of instantly
[16:16] <mgedmin> it was so you could use application menus without accidentally focusing other apps while on the way
[16:17] <octoquad> mgedmin, at the moment, I'm using sloppy, but prior to using the staging-ppa it was click. Sorry I said window previously, when I meant click.
[16:18] <octoquad> click in 3.12 works perfectly.
[16:24] <octoquad> I'm going to install VV now and see if it is present in a fresh install as well as give feedback to darkxst regarding wine and fglrx for #1382563. I'll be back in about two hours.
[17:11] <eliasps> Hi everyone
[18:18] <KeithIMyers> Morning All
[18:23] <eliasps> Hey KeithIMyers
[18:23] <KeithIMyers> Mornin
[19:04] <octoquad> darkxst, is it worthwhile filing bugs / updating bugs for vivid now?
[19:07] <Noskcaj> darkxst, If you get the chance then, could you please make a patch?
[19:59] <darkxst> octoquad, of course it is worthwhile
[19:59] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I can take a look, but probably not this week
[20:02] <Noskcaj> ty
[20:49] <darkxst> Noskcaj, Actually, done http://pastebin.com/bWMK4gz0
[20:58] <darkxst> Noskcaj, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741044
[20:59] <Noskcaj> ty. I also emailed the patch directly to the upstream dev
[21:04] <darkxst> np


[03:56] <didrocks> good morning
[06:02] <duflu> Hi didrocks and oSoMoN
[06:03] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:03] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:08] <didrocks> hey duflu, salut oSoMoN
[06:11] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[06:30] <jibel> Good morning all
[06:57] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[07:00] <duflu> Hi seb128
[07:01] <duflu> Hi jibel
[07:06] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you doing?
[07:07] <didrocks> saklut jibel, seb128
[07:07] <seb128> lut didrocks, jibel, en forme ?
[07:09] <didrocks> ça va, et toi ? :)
[07:09] <duflu> seb128, not great today but coping. You?
[07:12] <seb128> duflu, :-(
[07:12] <seb128> I'm alright thanks, heat wave ended!
[07:13] <didrocks> not for everyone :p
[07:13]  * didrocks waits for the promised rain tonight
[07:14] <duflu> Winter and 22 degrees here B)
[07:14] <seb128> also played tennis which was quite nice :)
[09:44] <seb129> duflu, on bug #1976204 are you saying that the same source built locally and from the archive gives different results?
[09:45] <seb129> also that should be fixed with the SRU that moved recently to update if that's the same as #13?
[09:46] <duflu> seb129, the freeze never occurred in git builds run from a local prefix (normal development environment). But the freeze does occur in git builds packaged into debs and installed system-wide. So that's what I'm using now
[09:47] <seb129> duflu, is it fixed in 42.2? #13 suggested that it might?
[09:49] <duflu> seb129, nope
[09:49] <duflu> that's the first thing I checked today
[09:49] <seb129> ah ok
[09:50] <seb129> are you working on the issue? or Marco?
[09:50] <seb129> it's an important one of the oem team since it's blocking enablement for new models
[09:51] <duflu> seb129, I am as mentioned in the bug but I will assign it to be clear...
[09:52] <seb129> duflu, ok thanks, sorry I got confused by the reference to #13 where Marco stated it should be fixed in 42.2
[09:53] <duflu> Yeah but that was on 8 June
[09:54] <duflu> At that time I think I was spending all week catching up on bug mail post-vacation
[12:05] <jbicha> good morning
[12:08] <seb129> jbicha, hey, how are you?
[12:08] <jbicha> kinda confused by your number today 🤣
[12:12] <seb128> jbicha, lol, I had an hexchat open minimized on another workspace, I though the number came from a timeout/reconnect and tried to rename but it didn't work out, now it makes sense why :)
[14:03] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, want to review some rls bugs today?
[14:04] <kenvandine> seb128: yes!
[14:04] <seb128> alright!
[14:05] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-kk-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:05] <seb128> no desktop there
[14:05] <seb128> bug #1977769 is one but in the wrong section since that was not promoted yet
[14:06] <seb128> Sergio is working on it
[14:06] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-kk-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:06] <seb128> those are handled
[14:06] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-jj-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:06] <seb128> bug #1973638
[14:08] <seb128> sounds like worth getting in .1 since it's fixed upstream
[14:08] <seb128> jbicha, Trevinho, ^ do you know if that's going to flow in through some update or if we should cherrypick?
[14:08] <kenvandine> +1
[14:10] <seb128> jbicha, I'm assigning to you since Marco is already overbusy with other things but feel free to check with him if we do a version update or a cherrypicj
[14:12] <seb128> triaging a bit the other ones
[14:12] <seb128> bug #1966167
[14:13] <seb128> would be nice to fix but I don't know if that qualifies for rls?
[14:14] <kenvandine> would be nice
[14:14] <seb128> k, let's import it to the board
[14:15] <kenvandine> let's at least find out how much work it might be
[14:16] <seb128> right
[14:16] <seb128> k, that's it for J
[14:16] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:16] <seb128> no desktop there
[14:16] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:16] <seb128> nor here
[14:17] <seb128> let-'s review quickly the tracking listd
[14:17] <seb128> lists
[14:17] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:17] <seb128> bug #1962135 needs verification if someone feels like doing focal SRU verification
[14:18] <seb128> there is a stack of adsys focal targetted but not assigned reports
[14:19] <seb128> adsys is in the queue so I guess that will autosort itself once the upload is accepted
[14:19] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:20] <seb128> we should probably try to clean those assigned list, it's clear that some of those are not going to be worked on at this point
[14:20] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:21] <kenvandine> we should make sure someone verifies that gstreamer SRU before it gets deleted
[14:21] <seb128> right, I carded it but that didn't help finding a volunteer
[14:21] <seb128> I could do it but I keep delaying the ubiquity work because I take on things like that than we don't find anyone to do...
[14:23] <seb128> anyway, that's it for this week, quite some noise we could try to clean in the lists but nothing urgent
[14:23] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
[14:23] <kenvandine> seb128: the ubiquity work is higher priority
[14:25] <seb128> I know...
[18:24] <ricotz> nteodosio, hi, were you able to upload the poppler patch for libreoffice gerrit?
[18:25] <nteodosio> hi ricotz! Nope, not yet
[18:26] <ricotz> nteodosio, you could give a "git format-patch"?
[18:26] <nteodosio> It always gets stuck at "writing objects 7%"
[18:26] <ricotz> i assume you prepared it against the master branch?
[18:27] <nteodosio> Yes to both
[18:27] <ricotz> thanks
[18:27] <nteodosio> Do you want me to mail it to you?
[18:28] <ricotz> nteodosio, pastebin or how you like it
[18:28] <nteodosio> Alright, disconsider the one you got earlier from me then
[18:55] <ricotz> nteodosio, ok, I got it, but the versions in POPPLER_CHECK_VERSION are wrong
[18:56] <ricotz> those should be POPPLER_CHECK_VERSION(22, 6, 0)
[18:59] <ItzSwirlz> jbicha: thanks. In NJ we end in june and start in sep
[18:59] <ItzSwirlz> znc is killing me
[19:00] <nteodosio> ricotz: Thanks for catching that
[19:01] <ricotz> nteodosio, I will try to push it to gerrit again
[19:03] <ricotz> nteodosio, ah, I lack 'forge author' permission
[19:03] <nteodosio> ricotz: Never heard of that. Is that something I can do on my side?
[19:03] <ricotz> but gerrit seems to work as expected
[19:04] <nteodosio> Then it's all good. I wonder why I couldn't push.
[19:04] <ricotz> nteodosio, no, I am just not allowed to use you email as author with my account
[19:04] <nteodosio> Oh, so no dice? :(
[19:05] <ricotz> no, not without taking over the patch
[19:06] <ricotz> you are using ./logerrit as documented?
[19:06] <nteodosio> Thanks for looking into it anyway. I will try the "solution of the hopeless", which consists in deleting the whole repository and trying it again.
[19:07] <nteodosio> I went through the part to generate a password with a ~dozen line script
[19:07] <seb128> jbicha, bug #1979037 is a gnome-shell SRU regression, yaru needs to catch up with design tweaks, I'm going to card it so we don't forget to deal with it for .1
[19:07] <nteodosio> I don't remember ./logerrit, this could be it, I will investigate
[19:09] <ricotz> nteodosio, to upload the patch you have to use "./logerrit submit master" while your patch is on top of upstream master
[19:09] <ricotz> ./logerrit --help
[19:14] <jbicha> seb128: thanks
[19:23] <nteodosio> ricotz, success, thanks! I had to './logerrit setup' first. I think I was reading the wrong documentation, https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/Documentation/index.html
[19:28] <ricotz> nteodosio, https://ci.libreoffice.org/job/gerrit_linux_gcc_release/120584/console


[00:01] <vorlon> utkarsh2102: also, sorry, this was meant to be on #ubuntu-devel
[00:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sosreport [source] (lunar-proposed) [4.5.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[00:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sosreport [source] (kinetic-proposed) [4.5.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[00:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sosreport [source] (jammy-proposed) [4.5.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[00:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sosreport [source] (focal-proposed) [4.5.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[01:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openvswitch [source] (lunar-proposed) [3.1.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[01:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openvswitch [source] (jammy-proposed) [2.17.7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[01:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted alsa-ucm-conf [source] (lunar-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu9.1]
[01:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted alsa-ucm-conf [source] (jammy-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1.7]
[02:19] <vorlon> apw: how's jammy going?
[02:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cinder [source] (jammy-proposed) [2:20.3.0-0ubuntu1]
[05:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cinder [source] (lunar-proposed) [2:22.1.0-0ubuntu1]
[05:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (lunar-proposed) [3:27.1.0-0ubuntu1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (jammy-proposed) [3:25.2.0-0ubuntu1]
[05:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted neutron [source] (lunar-proposed) [2:22.0.1-0ubuntu1]
[05:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted neutron [source] (jammy-proposed) [2:20.3.1-0ubuntu1]
[05:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected apache2 [source] (kinetic-proposed) [2.4.54-2ubuntu1.5]
[05:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cups [source] (jammy-proposed) [2.4.1op1-1ubuntu4.5]
[17:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[17:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [armhf] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[17:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [s390x] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[17:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [arm64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[17:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [ppc64el] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[17:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libexecs [riscv64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-2] (no packageset)
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [armhf] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [s390x] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libexecs [ppc64el] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-2]
[21:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: photofilmstrip (jammy-proposed/universe) [3.7.3-2 => 3.7.3-2ubuntu22.04.1] (no packageset)


[23:28] <marioxcc> Hello.
[23:28] <marioxcc> Can I have multiple branches with a single working tree, as in Mercurial or Git?


[05:59] <mikelam> hello is anyone here?
[06:05] <jmarsden> mikelam: The is #ubuntu-classroom, there is no class now.  For help with Ubuntu, try asking in #ubuntu instead.
[10:21] <mikelam> Thank you God that u made Ubuntu, at last no more Windows
[10:21] <mikelam> i am so happy i got rid of windows, my ubuntu warks fine
[10:22] <mikelam> the last time i install ubuntu from a magazine, it didnt work
[10:22] <mikelam> now is working, thank you God once again
[10:23] <mikelam> the battery discharging pop up is coming over and over, i went to power management and i said i dont want it to display but is still there, what can i do?
[10:24] <mikelam> by the way i am Michael Lambrou, living in Vula, Athens, Greece
[10:24] <mikelam> my ubuntu is getting updates now
[10:26] <jasonjang> That's Good.
[10:26] <mikelam> hello jason, we talked in the morning, yes all fine and i am very happy
[10:26] <jasonjang> Hi~ mikelam
[10:27] <mikelam> Good to see you
[10:27] <jasonjang> nice meet U again.
[10:27] <mikelam> thank you
[10:27] <jasonjang> Oh~  U R in greece.
[10:28] <mikelam> yes and u?
[10:28] <jasonjang> i'm KOREAn South korea.
[10:28] <mikelam> ok
[10:28] <jmarsden> mikelam: This is #ubuntu-classroom, there is no class now.  For help about Ubuntu try asking your question in the #ubuntu channel.
[10:28] <mikelam> ok thank you, bye
[10:29] <mikelam> i am there
[10:29] <mikelam> ubuntu?
[10:29] <mikelam> where i find this?
[10:29] <jasonjang> let's meet in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.
[16:26] <BasiumDeJudas> hello people.
[16:27] <BasiumDeJudas> I would like a personal opinion about kde & gnome?
[16:27] <BasiumDeJudas> which is best or should i say which do you perfer?


[06:05] <wallyworld> jam: 1 on 1?
[06:05] <jam> wallyworld: sure, guess I missed my alarm
[07:04] <jam> wallyworld: I just lost mumble connection, will try again
[07:04] <wallyworld> ok
[07:05] <jam> wallyworld: it seems dead from my view... Are you still on mumble.canonical.com?
[07:05] <wallyworld> yes, i'll retry also
[07:05] <TheMue> Morning
[07:05] <jam> wallyworld: it is possible the great firewall of the UAE has been updated to block mumble :).
[07:05] <jam> TheMue: hi
[07:05] <jam> clearly I still have some internet access.
[07:05] <wallyworld> jam: when i restart, it says host unreachble for me too
[07:06] <jam> k
[07:06] <jam> maybe just a dns issue?
[07:06] <wallyworld> so maybe mumble is down
[07:06] <jam> (migrating to a new host, and DNS updates being done.)
[07:06] <TheMue> jam: Hi, and yes, seems so.
[07:06] <jam> I got remote host closed it, connected now, but invalid password.
[07:06] <jam> maybe they are just restarting it or something
[07:06] <wallyworld> works now
[07:07] <davecheney> morning/evening
[07:16] <TheMue> davecheney: Hiya
[07:44] <jam> and mumble dies again...
[07:44]  * davecheney sad trombone
[07:45] <jam> TheMue: How's stuff going? I saw that you're working on the firewalling code. Mark mentioned that you'll be starting to look into the MaaS code soon. Do you know when that might be?
[07:45] <jam> I think I also saw that you're going on vacation next week?
[07:45] <jam> davecheney: http://www.sadtrombone.com/
[07:45] <jam> sorry: http://www.sadtrombone.com/?play=true
[07:45] <jam> the latter will autopaly
[07:45] <jam> play
[07:46]  * davecheney bookmarks
[07:46] <jam> davecheney: though I wonder if you need a bit.ly link to it, so you can surprise people.
[07:46] <TheMue> jam: Yes, right now I'm fixing/fixed the firewaller.
[07:46] <davecheney> jam lmgtfy
[07:47] <TheMue> jam: I already took a first look into MAAS, but now I have to coordinate with Aram who started with it too.
[07:49] <Aram> good morning.
[07:50] <davecheney> morning
[07:50] <TheMue> Aram: Hiya
[07:51]  * Aram installed Debian because Unity doesn't work with NX.
[07:51] <Aram> I forgot computers could be this fast.
[07:51] <davecheney> debian is quite lean
[07:51]  * davecheney has been playing with plan9 on a Pi
[07:52] <Aram> I'm still waiting for my Pis. I somehow managed to order Pis in Australia, no wonder no Pi came.
[07:52] <Aram> perhaps I donated some Pis to someone this way.
[07:53] <davecheney> Aram: another canonical guy sold me his 512mb pi
[07:53] <davecheney> do you want my old 256mb one ?
[07:53] <davecheney> apart from running acme on your telly, it isn't all that useful
[07:53] <Aram> nah, thanks, I think I'll get one in a week or so.
[07:53] <davecheney> understood
[07:53] <Aram> yeah, I suppose/.
[07:54]  * davecheney is still waiting on the TTL 3.3v usb adapter
[07:54]  * TheMue is playing with Smalltalk again and always wonders about the Power of such a small environment like Pharo. Funny how ST has been too large for most computers in its early days.
[08:03] <davecheney> Aram: over the weekend some significant improvements were made on compiler memory usage
[08:03] <davecheney> there are CL's in review that effectively halve the amount of memory the compiler uses
[08:03] <Aram> fantastic.
[08:03] <davecheney> yup, pkg/net now takes ~ 43mb on 32bit platforms
[08:04] <davecheney> down from 108
[08:05] <davecheney> 103 on 8g
[08:05] <davecheney> 5g is slightly larger because the Prog structure and Reg list is longer
[08:13] <rogpeppe> morning all!
[08:13] <Aram> hi.
[08:17] <TheMue> rogpeppe: Hi
[09:25] <rogpeppe> afk while the boiler man is fixing our boiler... hopefully.
[09:26] <TheMue> Anyone interest in reviewing the changed firewaller? https://codereview.appspot.com/6875053/
[09:26] <TheMue> interested
[09:40] <TheMue> Aram: Do you want to take a look on the changed firewaller? https://codereview.appspot.com/6875053/
[09:40] <TheMue> s/on/at/
[09:57] <jam> mgz: /wave
[09:57] <TheMue> Aram: Having fun doing installations with following reboots? ;)
[09:59] <Aram> TheMue: just configuring NX.
[09:59] <TheMue> Aram: IC
[10:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ping
[10:31] <TheMue> rogpeppe: He's out this morning.
[10:31] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ah, thanks
[10:31] <TheMue> rogpeppe: yw
[11:01] <jam> rogpeppe: I've been meaning to ask. What does "CL" actually stand for?
[11:02] <rogpeppe> jam: change list
[11:02] <rogpeppe> jam: (i believe)
[11:02] <jam> it doesn't seem to be a very good fit, IMO, but as long as it is known. :)
[11:02] <rogpeppe> jam: yeah, i don't think it matters too much.
[11:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: do you think having a single mutex for all maps and other internal structures will suffice to overcome possible race conditions, or it's better to have one mutex per member (I'm referring to my CL for nova double)
[11:06] <jam> dimitern: my suggesstion is to just put the mutex in ServeHTTP like the ec2 version
[11:06] <rogpeppe> jam: +1
[11:06] <rogpeppe> jam: do you really need to export all those Nove functions?
[11:06] <rogpeppe> s/Nove/Nova/
[11:06] <dimitern> jam, rogpeppe: but dave pointed out that since the API is public this might not be enough?
[11:06] <rogpeppe> s/jam/dimitern/
[11:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's my question: does this API need to be public?
[11:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: who are you seeing as the clients of this API?
[11:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, since they're used for tests only, unless we use them outside the package, they can be private
[11:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's what i thought
[11:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'd suggest making them private
[11:08] <jam> I'd slightly suggest that it is being a bit over prescriptive, but we can start there.
[11:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: then we can ignore concurrency issues for the tests (because we know we're not calling them concurrently) and the ServeHTTP mutex will be sufficient.
[11:09] <rogpeppe> jam: if we don't do that, i think we'll probably end up needing a different entry point for each one of those calls, one for internal use (with lock held) and one for external use
[11:09] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, seems reasonable
[11:10] <rogpeppe> jam: given that almost all the functionality will be provided through the http interface, i'm not sure that's necessary.
[11:11] <rogpeppe> jam: but maybe you see some utility to the entry points that i don't?
[11:13] <jam> rogpeppe: I just think it is slightly overly prophylactic to say that you shouldn't have any public methods in case someone might use them incorrectly. But we can always go the 'its default private and we'll make it public when we need them'
[11:13] <jam> I'm also a bit more used to Python where everything that is "private" is still public.
[11:14] <jam> (consenting adults approach)
[11:15] <rogpeppe> jam: given that it's an http server, i'm not sure it's possible to use the methods correctly without second-guessing what the server is doing behind the scenes (which breaks modularity)
[11:16] <rogpeppe> jam: (because it's perfectly legitimate for the server to have something concurrent going on)
[11:17] <jam> rogpeppe: it is possible that in testing you would take out the HTTP section of the communication because it isn't always relevant for the tests themselves. (the fact that goose talks HTTP to openstack *should* be an implementation detail).
[11:17] <jam> ATM, we do, and we do for the forseeable future
[11:17] <jam> so we can go that route.
[11:17] <jam> but if HTTP overhead starts slowing down the tests, it would make sense to pull it out as uninteresting
[11:17] <rogpeppe> jam: it's one of those areas in Go that we tend to be very careful about, because unlocked concurrent access is a source of hard-to-find bugs.
[11:19] <rogpeppe> jam: if that happens to be the case (which i think is fairly unlikely), post-facto refactoring to make this possible would not be hard.
[11:21] <rogpeppe> jam: also, we have had times when the http section of the communication has contributed to test failures, so it's worth keeping it in the loop IMHO.
[11:28] <TheMue> Lunchtime, biab.
[12:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: PTAL https://codereview.appspot.com/6877054
[12:47] <rogpeppe> dimitern: looking
[12:58] <dimitern> jam: you too pls ^^
[13:02] <rogpeppe> dimitern: replied
[13:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe: thanks!
[13:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: was not sure *x.y when x is *T and y is *W will be the same as *x.*y
[13:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you can't do *x.*y :-)
[13:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, but you got my point :)
[13:05] <rogpeppe> *x.y is always the same as *(x.y)
[13:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: if x is a pointer, x.y is the same as (*x).y
[13:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I was confused, because before x was T and y was *W, hence the parens
[13:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I see, ok, good to know
[13:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so when both x and y are pointers, *x.y is the same as *((*x).y)
[13:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe: and no, flavors and servers must have links according to the OS API
[13:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so perhaps building links automatically if none are given is reasonable behaviour
[13:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but probably no need to distinguish []Link{} and nil there.
[13:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: BTW for chapter and verse on selector expressions, see http://golang.org/ref/spec#Selectors
[13:09] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, so I can change it so it checks for len(links) = 0 and adds them
[13:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that seems reasonable to me, assuming it does to jam
[13:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but if Links []Link is nil, will len(Links) make sense?
[13:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: absolutely
[13:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you can len([]T(nil)) and range over it too
[13:11] <dimitern> rogpeppe: good!\
[13:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: same with maps
[13:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and channels actually
[13:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it simplifies quite a bit of logic
[13:12] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, for sure - learning new things about go every day :)
[13:13] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's worth reading parts of the spec until they make sense
[13:21] <TheMue> Aram: How far has your digging into MAAS gone? Already found a suitable OAuth client for a MAAS client?
[13:24] <Aram> TheMue: bradfitz wrote an oauth library.
[13:24] <TheMue> Aram: OAuth 1 or 2?
[13:24] <TheMue> Aram: IMHO MAAS need OAuth 1.
[13:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but the problem is len([]T{}) == len([]T{nil}) == 0, so I cannot distinguish between those
[13:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yes, but do you want to?
[13:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, originally my point was to create links only explicitly, so I can simplify my tests, otherwise I have to add the Links: []nova.Link{} to EACH server or flavor
[13:29] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm not sure i understand. why do you have to do that?
[13:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: because if I don't DeepEquals will fail
[13:30] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I'll have to have server := nova.ServerDetail{Id: "x", Links: []nova.Link{}} instead of just {Id: "x"}
[13:31] <Aram> yes, DeepEquals distinguishes between []T{}, and the nil equivalent, that's a pity.
[13:31] <Aram> just wrap DeepEquals.
[13:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe: because in the latter case add will create the links, and what I passed and what got stored in the map will be different
[13:31] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so you're using the []nova.Link{} to suppress the link creation?
[13:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe: exactly
[13:32] <dimitern> Aram: how?
[13:32] <rogpeppe> dimitern: presumably you could put the expected links in there?
[13:32] <Aram> pseudocode: if len(a) == len(b) == 0 { return true} DeepEquals(a, b)...
[13:33] <dimitern> Aram: that's seems reasonable
[13:33] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but i think the "buildlinks" argument is a perfectly reasonable solution too
[13:33] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yes, but that will complicate a lot of cases, where I don't really need links at all
[13:33] <rogpeppe> Aram: that won't work in this case
[13:33] <Aram> rogpeppe: why not?
[13:34] <rogpeppe> Aram: because the slice is embedded in a struct
[13:34] <Aram> aah, ok.
[13:34] <rogpeppe> dimitern: here's another possibility:
[13:34] <Aram> well, you can write an Equals function for that struct.
[13:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you could have a method on FlavorDetail that builds the links for it
[13:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that would mean that addFlavor is a little less magic, and the link-building logic gets its own function, independent of addFlavor
[13:37] <rogpeppe> dimitern: then you could call flavor.BuildLinks() before addFlavor, and the DeepEquals would work ok
[13:37] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I was thinking of that actually, but the FlavorDetail is outside the package (in nova, not novatests)
[13:37] <rogpeppe> dimitern: then add a function instead
[13:38] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, that seems the least amount of overhead, I'll do it
[13:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: perhaps AddLinks(f *FlavorDetail) ?
[13:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I was thinking of suite.buildLinksFlavor(f FlavorDetail) FlavorDetail and suite.buildLinksServer(s ServerDetail) ServerDetail
[13:48] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I need the suite to construct the URLs (the hostname, etc. are in the suite)
[13:48] <rogpeppe> dimitern: is it not functionality that you to be usable outside the test suite?
[13:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe: hmm, hold on - actually that won't work
[13:50] <rogpeppe> s/you to/you want to/ :-)
[13:51] <dimitern> rogpeppe: my original idea was to make the direct api complete in a sense that calling addServer is enough to have everything initialized in the state, so the HTTP API will just need to get the server and serialize the ServerDetail to json
[13:53] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but I suppose adding it to the suite won't be enough - i have to add it to the service itself and put a comment to call this always before add*() to produce a consistent result for the http api
[13:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that seems reasonable.
[13:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok :) 10x for the walkthrough
[13:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern: np
[14:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, so now it should be fine https://codereview.appspot.com/6877054
[14:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it you think it looks good I can go ahead and submit it
[14:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: one thought (sorry for not catching it earlier) - you could just mutate the links field *ServerDetail in place, rather than passing it in and out by value. YMMV though.
[14:11] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I thought so, but I followed the same pattern append() uses for example
[14:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: append is a bit of a special case
[14:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because it's designed to be called in many scenarios
[14:12] <rogpeppe> dimitern: anyway (and including if you choose not to change it), still LGTM
[14:13] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, I'll change it, 10x
[14:36] <TheMue> fwereade: ping
[14:36] <fwereade> TheMue, pong
[14:36] <fwereade> TheMue, I'm just looking at your CL right now :)
[14:36] <TheMue> fwereade: Aaaah, that's what I wanted to ask you to do. Thx. ;)
[14:38] <fwereade> TheMue, quick question: in initMachine, you appear only to start a unit watch when the service is exposed
[14:39] <fwereade> TheMue, AFAICT, in the rest of the FW, the unit watch is started regardless and the service exposure is only taken into account when refcounting?
[14:39] <TheMue> fwereade: Yes
[14:39] <fwereade> TheMue, did I misread somewhere? I'm still not familiar with the whole thing in detail :)
[14:40] <TheMue> fwereade: One moment, have to look, because it tries to act like later in "runtime mode".
[14:40] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, just to confirm: line 224, `if service.IsExposed() {`
[14:41] <fwereade> TheMue, vs line 276, `} else if unit != nil && unit.Life() != state.Dead && fw.machine ds[machineId] != nil {`
[14:41] <TheMue> fwereade: Yes, you're right.
[14:41] <fwereade> TheMue, so, definitely a bug?
[14:42] <TheMue> fwereade: Hmm, have to think what changes if the watch is started also for not yet exposed services.
[14:42] <dimitern> rogpeppe: while you're still fresh on the topic, PTAL https://codereview.appspot.com/6910055/
[14:42] <TheMue> fwereade: Funnily all tests are green, even repeated multiple (150x) in a row.
[14:42] <dimitern> rogpeppe: this the follow up - removing interface and get prefix from methods
[14:43] <rogpeppe> dimitern: looking
[14:43] <rogpeppe> dimitern: just wondering: why NovaService rather than Nova?
[14:44] <rogpeppe> dimitern: (novaservice.NovaService seems perhaps unnecessarily stuttering)
[14:44] <dimitern> rogpeppe: well, as a convention - the other doubles are like that, and the package is novaservice to distinguish it from the nova package
[14:44] <fwereade> TheMue, sure, but it's quite possible they just don't have a test case with the right parameters to trigger a bug -- or maybe it comes out not to be a bug after all
[14:44] <TheMue> fwereade: Funny, behaves the same way.
[14:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: you think it's too long?
[14:45] <fwereade> TheMue, but I am still having a bit of a hard time following all the different ways and times for creating the various datas
[14:45] <rogpeppe> dimitern: the package name is fine. if it's a convention i don't mind much, but, yeah i think it could be shorter without loss of clarity
[14:45] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, I think I have a fail case
[14:46] <fwereade> TheMue, let me check it's not covered by the tests
[14:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, fair enough I like shorter names too :)
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: (given that it's always going to be qualified with the package name)
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: generally the changes look great
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: LGTM with that thought about the name
[14:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe: thanks! I'll change the name and submit it then
[14:49] <fwereade> TheMue, ISTM that there are no test cases that check the behaviour when a FW is started with an unexposed service -- which is then exposed while the FW is running
[14:50] <TheMue> fwereade: OK, good hint, I'll add one for both modes.
[14:51] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, but wait a mo
[14:51] <fwereade> TheMue, there's something I think could be explored a bit further
[14:52] <fwereade> TheMue, if we look more at initMachineData and assume the service is exposed and everything is fine
[14:52] <fwereade> TheMue, sorry initMachine
[14:53] <fwereade> TheMue, just after the createUnitData call
[14:53] <fwereade> TheMue, when you get the OpenedPorts
[14:54] <fwereade> TheMue, (sorry, thinking out loud, crrect me when I go off the rails)
[14:54] <TheMue> fwereade: Go on.
[14:54] <fwereade> TheMue, you set them directly on the unitData and then start the ud's watch
[15:03] <TheMue> fwereade: The IsExposed() block has to be from before retrieving the OpenedPorts() and setting them in ud and md.
[15:24] <TheMue> fwereade: Additional tests are working fine.
[15:24] <fwereade> TheMue, hmm, ok
[15:25] <fwereade> TheMue, I think the thing I'm finding hard to follow is the creation chain now
[15:25] <fwereade> TheMue, you have several different funcs that create the same kinds of data in different ways
[15:25] <TheMue> fwereade: I find it now even more clear than before.
[15:26] <fwereade> TheMue, and I'm trying to think of a reason why any of those creation funcs need to be different in any way
[15:26] <TheMue> fwereade: Not at all, but maybe I can move it into own methods to avoid code doubling, yes.
[15:27] <fwereade> TheMue, ok; and yu now have two different styles of initialization too
[15:27] <TheMue> fwereade: No
[15:27] <fwereade> TheMue, I think that by using the new one troughout you will see a dramatic simplification
[15:27] <TheMue> fwereade: Before we had two, now there is only one left.
[15:27] <fwereade> TheMue, sometimes you fill in a machine's units and sometimes you don't, right?
[15:27] <TheMue> fwereade: Huh?
[15:29] <fwereade> TheMue, dammit, sorry
[15:29] <fwereade> TheMue, line 437
[15:29] <TheMue> fwereade: *lol*
[15:29] <fwereade> TheMue, at what point does that machine's set of units contain valid data?
[15:32] <TheMue> fwereade: After it's unit watcher sent its initial event which is then handled by the firewaller, that sets the data.
[15:32] <TheMue> fwereade: This is the logic we had from beginning.
[15:32] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, how long does it take for the initial event to be handled?
[15:33] <fwereade> TheMue, or rather, at what point o yo know that all the initial events have been handled?
[15:33] <fwereade> TheMue, (does this line of questioning sound familiar? ;))
[15:33] <TheMue> fwereade: Stop
[15:33] <TheMue> fwereade: This newMachineData() is only used after (!) the initial stuff is handled.
[15:34] <TheMue> fwereade: That's what changed.
[15:34] <fwereade> TheMue, yes
[15:34] <fwereade> TheMue, I know
[15:34] <TheMue> fwereade: In init() and in there in initMache(). Where explicitely the initial events of those initial watchers are handled before (!) the firewaller loop starts handling new changes.
[15:34] <fwereade> TheMue, initMachine is a step in the direction we need to take
[15:35] <fwereade> TheMue, but you do now have two ways of initializing a machine
[15:36] <fwereade> TheMue, in one of them, the machine has the correct unit data and can be safely used at any point onwards
[15:36] <fwereade> TheMue, in the other one, the machine starts off with empty unit data and has it added gradually after the fact
[15:37] <fwereade> TheMue, I think that the second approach *is* in fact adequate to the needs of a running FW
[15:37] <fwereade> TheMue, but I'm having difficulty figuring out why we have two separate initialization modes when we could have one that is correct in all circumstances
[15:38] <TheMue> fwereade: Yes, and port changing is done when the information has arived. The problem has been when the firewaller starts and there are already open ports that have to be closed or closed ports that have to be open.
[15:38] <TheMue> fwereade: But when those are handled all further initial and changing events handle the rest.
[15:40] <fwereade> TheMue, are you arguing that it is better to have two separate ways of initing the various *Data structs?
[15:40] <fwereade> TheMue, it really does make it hard for me to follow what's going on
[15:41] <fwereade> TheMue, it feels like you're drawing information from a whole bunch of different sources and asserting that you have enough information to cover every possible case
[15:41] <fwereade> TheMue, but every different data source is a potential race
[15:43] <fwereade> TheMue, and I'm not sure I'm equal to the task of analyzing them all
[15:43] <TheMue> fwereade: Avoiding code duplication for sure is a good goal.
[15:43] <TheMue> fwereade: Step by step the FW is totally rewritte. :/
[15:44] <TheMue> rewritten
[15:46] <fwereade> TheMue, well, I was a little surprised by this direction -- I had thought we were clear on the advantages of doing *everything* based on watchers, instead of adding more random desynchronized data sources into the mix
[15:46] <TheMue> fwereade: The bad think is that you're right, but on the other hand the change grows and grows. :(
[15:47] <fwereade> TheMue, I *think* it's possible to make it shrink
[15:47] <fwereade> TheMue, you only need a single creation function for each *Data type
[15:47] <TheMue> fwereade: It is everythink done by watchers. But only in init() it's done on the initial event and later lazy.
[15:48] <fwereade> TheMue, initMachine uses IsExposed() and OpenedPorts(), completely divorced from any sort of watches on those things
[15:48] <fwereade> TheMue, you've moved the desynchronization up a level but not resolved it
[15:49] <fwereade> TheMue, so: in each *Data creation function, you must *consume the guaranteed first event* from your own watcher, and fill in your state based on the information received
[15:49] <TheMue> fwereade: Sorry, can't follow.
[15:50] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, any time you create a machine
[15:50] <fwereade> TheMue, all its unit and service data must be created and filled in before the watch lop is started and the creation function returns
[15:51] <fwereade> TheMue, that is all you need to do, and all these alternate ways of initialization just fall away
[15:51] <fwereade> TheMue, the *only* initialization you need is a `var reconciled bool` at the top of the FW loop
[15:52] <fwereade> TheMue, and then `if !reconciled { reconciled := true; err := fw.initWhateverMode() etc }` at the end of the <-machinew.Changes branch
[15:52] <TheMue> fwereade: ???
[15:52] <fwereade> TheMue, ok
[15:52] <fwereade> TheMue, let's turn this around
[15:52] <fwereade> TheMue, why do you have more than one way of creating unit data, or machine data?
[15:54] <fwereade> TheMue, why are the serviceDatas for those units created in different ways?
[15:54] <TheMue> fwereade: That's already understood, the ??? has been for the reconciled mode.
[15:55] <fwereade> TheMue, it is a bool which is used to fire off some logic once and only once when the time is opportune
[15:55] <fwereade> TheMue, ie, once you have handled the first machines change
[15:55] <fwereade> TheMue, you then have complete state, and can run initGlobalMode() or whatever to reconcile with provider-supplied reality
[15:56] <fwereade> TheMue, then set the bool to true so we don;t hit the branch again
[15:56] <fwereade> TheMue, and just casually handle all other changes as they come
[15:57] <TheMue> fwereade: OK, just trying to bring it together.
[15:59] <dimitern> if I do x := y, when y is struct {..}, does this mean it's making a copy and you can change x independently?
[16:03] <dimitern> dimitern: answering to myself :) yep, it seems so - i checked
[16:03] <TheMue> fwereade: But you still would init the first machines wtacher event before the firewaller loop?
[16:04] <TheMue> fwereade: Eh, handle it.
[16:04] <fwereade> TheMue, no, why?
[16:05] <fwereade> TheMue, nothing is going to start sending on the other channels until the various *Datas have been set up
[16:05] <TheMue> fwereade: Ah, no, get it with the reconciled.
[16:05] <fwereade> TheMue, if you handle the whole chain in the first event that's all you need
[16:05] <fwereade> TheMue, (ok, you might get an env change before the machines change, but that's all to the good)
[16:06] <TheMue> fwereade: So the first event I get IS the initial machine watcher event, but in the loop. And there I use that flag to reconcile with the current real world.
[16:07] <TheMue> fwereade: That sound reasonable.
[16:07] <fwereade> TheMue, yeah, so, the first event is "all known machines"
[16:07] <fwereade> TheMue, you do the machineLifeChanged for each machine as before
[16:08] <fwereade> TheMue, the only difference is that you handle the initial event from the units watcher *before* starting the loop and returning the created machine
[16:08] <fwereade> TheMue, but, ofc, for each unit in the initial event for that machine, you have data to create and fill in before starting the watch and returning the unit data
[16:09] <fwereade> TheMue, this may even include starting a service watch, getting the initial event
[16:09] <fwereade> TheMue, etc
[16:10] <fwereade> TheMue, the idea is just to make sure that there's only one way to create each *Data kind, and that it always completely fills in its own data before it returns from the creation function (and has its watches based on diffs from that known state)
[16:10] <fwereade> TheMue, I *think* this hugely simplifies matters
[16:11] <fwereade> TheMue, am I making any sense?
[16:11] <TheMue> fwereade: Hmm, to make it clean I have to move those new…Data() to methods in firewaller, because the firewaller changes datas but not vice versa.
[16:11] <fwereade> TheMue, yeah, my gut was suggesting that would be a good way to go
[16:11] <fwereade> TheMue, I didn't want to be excessively prescriptive
[16:12] <fwereade> TheMue, what's your feeling about the relative simplicity of the above approach? I think it would be smaller and easier to follow
[16:13] <TheMue> fwereade: No, you aren't. But next time you've got such a redesign in mind just write down a little outline with comments. That's simpler than to do it in a dialog.
[16:17] <mramm> fwereade: TheMue: I agree that we would all benefit from a bit of design documentation around lifecycle stuff
[16:17] <TheMue> mramm: Hiya.
[16:17] <mramm> in general I think we often find out that there are disagreements about design later in the process than we should
[16:18] <mramm> some of that is inevitable
[16:18] <mramm> and I don't want to do Big Design Up Front
[16:18] <fwereade> mramm, yeah, I know what you mean
[16:18] <mramm> but a few quick notes about what is planed would be good to have more often
[16:20] <fwereade> yeah -- I think that perhaps some artifacts were preserved from lisbon, but I couldn't tell you *where*
[16:21] <fwereade> mramm, if you think it would still be a win at this stage I would be more than happy to document what I plan to be doing to them over the coming weeks
[16:21] <fwereade> mramm, what I plan to write does not differ in any significant way from what we agreed back then -- the fundamental dependencies have not changed
[16:21] <mramm> fwereade: I do think it would be a win
[16:22] <mramm> fwereade: I know, but we didn't really document what we agreed that well, so I think it would be good to do still
[16:24] <TheMue> So, AFK for a few minutes, playing daughters taxi. BRB
[16:24] <mramm> rogpeppe: I think it would also be good to document a bit about how we expect the API to work
[16:24] <mramm> TheMue: cool, see you soon.
[16:24] <rogpeppe> mramm: i agree
[16:25] <mramm> rogpeppe: and also a little bit about the plan for building it
[16:25] <rogpeppe> mramm: we some ideas but we haven't worked out what the message format will be like
[16:25] <mramm> rogpeppe: so that we can see if we are over-promising for 13.04
[16:25] <rogpeppe> mramm: i've already got a preliminary branch submitted with some of the basics done
[16:26] <mramm> even writing down what we have now would be valuable I think, but of course the message format/content is the key
[16:26] <rogpeppe> mramm: i'm building the framework from the bottom up and leaving decisions about the actual protocol until later
[16:26] <mramm> ok, thats fine
[16:27] <mramm> let's just define what we know, and write todo items for the decisions that still need to be made
[16:27] <rogpeppe> mramm: i also did a preliminary top-down implementation, but it didn't go down that well
[16:27] <mramm> always good to give it time
[16:45] <TheMue> So, back again
[17:05] <rogpeppe> for anyone that would like something to look at, a small CL: https://codereview.appspot.com/6902070/
[18:33] <rogpeppe> time for me to go. have a good rest-of-day, peeps


[07:49] <duckblaster> Can someone help me figure out why xrandr isn't working?
[07:49] <duckblaster> It wakes up the other screens, but they just show black
[07:50] <duckblaster> and the mouse doesn't move to them
[14:44] <thatguy> hi I have two questions: 1. Is there a gui way to create shortcuts in lubuntu. 2. is there a quick application/file search tool like gnome has it standard?
[14:44] <thatguy> where you just press command key and can start typing
[14:49] <leszek> thatguy: lxshortcut should come as default which allows creations of shortcuts. For number 2. you can either use the ALT+F2 default run command or install something fancier like kupfer
[15:46] <thatguy> leszek, ok thanks I'll try kupfer
[15:48] <thatguy> leszek, oh I meant keyboard shortcuts
[15:56] <leszek> thatguy: hmm.... I think you need to edit the .xml file for that yourself. You could check obconf. But last time I checked it did not have any options to edit keyboard shortcuts
[15:58] <thatguy> leszek, ok thanks
[17:45] <Audiohaus> hello
[17:50] <Audiohaus> I've installed ubuntu on this AMD A8-6500 machine, and everything's working more or less, but I'm trying to get audio through HDMI output
[17:50] <Audiohaus> I've tried installing catalytic control, messing around with alsamixer, etc
[17:50] <Audiohaus> nothing I do works
[17:51] <Audiohaus> *lubuntu^
[21:40] <Guest01> Can i connect 2 computers using Lubuntu with a Network cable and make a lan ?
[21:54] <ianorlin> Guest01: yes but if you want them both to connect to interent you need another network adapater
[21:54] <ianorlin> !info bridge-utils
[21:55] <Guest01> With a crossed cable they will connect as a lan ?
[21:56] <ianorlin> so if you had an ethernet port built into your motherboard on a desktop and then added like a cheap pci or pcie  ethernet card you could then bridge to each other I am not sure of just two computer to each other I think it mightr work but have not tried that myself
[22:03] <ianorlin> Guest01: what are you trying to accomplish with two computers on a lan?
[22:05] <Guest01> I like to try connect two netbooks with a network cable.  bluetooth is muc. slower.
[22:05] <ianorlin> yes but what will you do once you connect them transfer files?
[22:06] <Guest01> experiment i think.. if it works i can transfer files do everything.