[01:32] <duflu> Ug. nouveau killed my system
[01:38] <RAOF> Dead as a doornail?
[01:38] <duflu> Back now
[01:39] <duflu> If only I could remember SysRq combos
[01:41] <RAOF> REISUB
[01:42] <RAOF> Although we've actually disabled all but SUB from that.
[01:42] <RAOF> olli: Good morning/evening.
[01:46] <olli> hey RAOF
[01:46] <olli> evening
[01:46] <RAOF> Various tarballs are sauntering up to U1.
[01:46] <olli> RAOF, awesome!
[01:47] <olli> thx
[01:47] <RAOF> Taking a relaxed stroll through my ADSL pipe.
[01:47] <olli> :)
[01:47] <olli> do you need me to upload something?
[01:47] <olli> it seems like there is enough time until the meeting
[01:47]  * olli counts hours until 5am
[01:48] <RAOF> About 12 :)
[01:48] <olli> 12?
[01:48] <olli> I count 9
[01:48] <RAOF> Hm. 10?
[01:48] <olli> 9h 12min
[01:48] <olli> 7:48pm here
[01:48] <olli> meeting in my cal from 5-6am
[01:49] <RAOF> Meeting is 10pm my local time, and it's 11 minutes to 12 here.
[01:49]  * RAOF checks calendar.
[01:49] <olli> hm
[01:49] <RAOF> Ah.
[01:49] <olli> I never get these TZs right
[01:49] <RAOF> No, it's 9pm my local time :)
[01:49] <olli> :)
[01:50] <RAOF> Anyway, the upload is about half done; it'll be done in plenty of time for 9pm :)
[01:51] <olli> RAOF, when you send the mail, mind suggesting an IRC channel (ask if that works... it's china...)
[01:51] <olli> and if it doesn't we can try something like gg doc
[01:51] <RAOF> On freenode?
[01:51] <olli> to just share stuff, links to files in the local fs, etc
[01:51] <olli> RAOF, yeah
[01:51] <olli> we could probably just use this one here actually
[01:52] <olli> or a randomly picked, sort of private one
[02:51] <duflu> RAOF: Have you ever observed anything like bug 1211700? It's almost as it nouveau+radeon have excessive locking which makes GL command floods from busy clients block page flipping also
[02:51] <duflu> *as if
[02:52] <RAOF> I've not seen that
[02:52] <duflu> It feels familiar. I think I came up against similar in Compiz
[02:54] <RAOF> Well, there's currently no scheduling at the GPU level, so clients are perfectly capable of flooding.
[02:54] <duflu> Ah, bug 1007299 was similar but that was mitigated with more sane XDamage logic
[03:19] <olli> RAOF, I have asked tvoss_ to reply to tim's mail, we do have some canned answer
[03:20] <RAOF> olli: About IRC, or the general "what's happening 14.04+"?
[03:20] <RAOF> Or, I guess, both? :)
[03:20] <olli> the latter
[03:22] <olli> RAOF, the Mesa U1 link doesn't work for me
[03:23] <RAOF> Grr. Let me check.
[03:24] <RAOF> Oh, man. The fact that the mesa link randomly ends in ‘Xserver’ is confusing :)
[03:31] <olli> heh
[03:36] <RAOF> olli: Check the new link?
[03:38] <olli> RAOF, wfm, thx
[03:53] <duflu> RAOF: Does this look related to the auth_magic issues?...
[03:53] <duflu> [ FAILED ] BespokeDisplayServerTestFixture.client_drm_auth_magic_calls_platform (1922 ms)
[03:53] <duflu> See bug 1212516
[03:53] <RAOF> duflu: Plausibly?
[03:53]  * RAOF checks the bug.
[03:55] <RAOF> It's not clear to me if it's related or not.
[03:57] <duflu> It sounds very close to the symptoms being discussed yesterday
[03:58] <duflu> Wow, building a kernel is much slower than it used to be.
[05:04] <jono> RAOF, do you know what the status is on the ATI blocker that is blocking Mir from updating in the archive?
[05:04] <RAOF> jono: It's being frustrating and awkward.
[05:04] <jono> RAOF, I can imagine
[05:05] <jono> still blocked I presume
[05:05] <RAOF> But it's not actually an ATI blocker; it's an IPC problem that only appears on that machine for some reason.
[05:05] <jono> ahhh
[05:06] <jono> RAOF, do you think we should hold off the call for testing for the packages in the archive until this is fixed?
[05:06] <RAOF> Maybe? It's a race condition that seems to be pretty hard to hit, though.
[05:07] <jono> I see
[05:15] <duflu> jono: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1204939/comments/13
[05:16] <jono> thanks duflu
[05:17] <tvoss_> good morning :)
[05:17] <duflu> tvoss_, hi
[05:17] <tvoss_> duflu, hey there, how is it going? kernel build done?
[05:17] <duflu> tvoss_: Yes done now.  That document you linked points to a private launchpad branch :)
[05:40] <tvoss_> RAOF, oops :)
[05:40] <tvoss_> RAOF, let's see if they try to open the link then ;)
[05:41] <duflu>   /reboot
[05:45] <tvoss_> duflu, welcome back :)
[05:46]  * duflu is experimenting with mlankhorst's vblank proposals, so things are a bit jerky
[05:48] <duflu> I take it back. Not jerky, but perfect 60Hz in Mir. Only X is broken :)
[05:52]  * tvoss_ moves over to the new house
[05:55] <duflu> Too many houses to choose from?...
[05:58] <duflu>  /swap hardware
[06:17] <mlankhorst> :p
[06:30] <RAOF> mlankhorst: Probably time for me to chase up that dma-buf patch again. Have there still not been any replies, or am I just not subscribed to the right list and people aren't CCing me?
[06:30] <RAOF> Man our tests take a long time to run under valgrind!
[06:34] <duflu> Weird how nouveau renders the Mir hardware cursor visibly differently to intel/radeon
[06:34] <duflu> RAOF: *-tests --gtest_filter="*the_test_you_want*"
[06:35] <RAOF> duflu: Yeah, fair call.
[06:41]  * duflu Ctrl+Alt+De
[07:01] <mlankhorst> RAOF: poke sumits on irc, but yeah I haven't had any feedback on my fence patch either
[07:02] <RAOF> sumits-away it is!
[07:04] <duflu> mlankhorst: Your vblank patches work brilliantly for Mir. Strangely stuck at 30-45Hz in X though.
[07:05] <duflu> Maybe Compiz is just trying to do *too much* every frame
[07:07] <mlankhorst> duflu: I still get > 100 fps every time, I guess double vblank somewhere
[07:07] <duflu> mlankhorst: Well, Mir had a nice healthy 60Hz with the patches
[07:08] <duflu> And buttery smooth
[07:15] <dholbach> good morning
[07:16] <duflu> Morning dholbach
[07:16] <dholbach> hi duflu
[07:22] <mlankhorst> duflu: my gtx 480 can drive 2 panels at 2560x1440 without problem on bootspeed
[07:23] <duflu> mlankhorst: Admittedly I have only tested a G210 so far
[07:24] <mlankhorst> it's stuck on 135 mhz memory clock
[07:24] <mlankhorst> your clock is more than that
[07:25] <duflu> mlankhorst: How to force it higher?
[07:25] <mlankhorst> so trust me if it's stuck on 30 fps
[07:25] <mlankhorst> it's because of a double vblank path
[07:27] <mlankhorst> the only times boot speeds have given me issues have been when I was running real 3d applications, not the compositing manager :P
[07:28] <mlankhorst> oh and 1080p video decoding won't work on boot speeds ;P
[07:39] <mlankhorst> duflu: sec if you want to recompile the ddx you can probably kill off a vblank
[07:42] <duflu> mlankhorst: I think I've already spent enough time recompiling kernels. It's not my priority task right now...
[07:43] <mlankhorst> http://paste.debian.net/25338/
[07:43] <mlankhorst> ddx patch
[07:43] <mlankhorst> no idea if it helps though
[07:44] <mlankhorst> but it kills an extra wait
[08:02] <alan_g> duflu: have you had time to investigate bug 1212518?
[08:02] <duflu> alan_g: No, I am still focusing on bypass. Just logging other bugs as I notice them
[08:04]  * alan_g knows how that is
[09:00] <duflu> Dear radeon: Give me an error, or display my buffer. Doing neither is not very friendly.
[09:01] <alf__> duflu: is this with the dmabuf fix applied?
[09:01] <duflu> alf__: I have no idea what you mean. But I have tested up to kernel 3.10.6 and get the same bug
[09:02] <duflu> alf__: What is it? What does it do?
[09:02] <alf__> duflu: dmabuf fix = fix for not pinning video buffers to system memory that mlankhorst was working on
[09:03] <alf__> mlankhorst: does 3.10.6 contain the dmabuf pinning fixes?
[09:03] <duflu> alf__: Yeah mean for nouveau? Yes tested that and it works. But no luck with radeon... though I can't test kernel 3.11 with radeon due to other errors
[09:04] <mlankhorst> alf__: 3.11 does, which is in the archive
[09:05] <mlankhorst> I don't think it qualifies for stable, but it can be backported if you care
[09:05] <duflu> alf__: Yeah I ran into that on nouveau and confirmed 3.11 works. You mean a similar fix is required for radeon?
[09:06] <alf__> duflu: yes, it's a dmabuf issue affecting both nouveau and radeon
[09:06] <duflu> alf__: OK. I just gave up trying 3.11 on radeon due to strange errors. I'll have to go back to it
[09:11] <alf__> duflu: what problems do you get with 3.11?
[09:13] <duflu> alf__: I saw odd Mesa/kernel errors and then full system hang. But that was raring + 3.11 kernel. I will try saucy daily image now...
[09:13] <duflu> It's difficult when I can't upgrade this machine to saucy yet, and it's the only one I can put video cards in
[09:14] <alf__> duflu: why can't you upgrade?
[09:14] <duflu> alf__: It's my "stable" server/desktop
[09:15] <alf__> duflu: perhaps have an partition for unstable installations?
[09:16] <duflu> alf__: Perhaps. But that's a last resort
[09:17] <alf__> duflu: btw, I have a radeon, so if you want me to try something with saucy + 3.11 I would be happy to
[09:17] <duflu> alf__: If I need help, I'll let you know thanks. I'll live-boot saucy for the rest of the day...
[09:18] <alf__> duflu: ok
[09:22] <duflu> Wow, kernel 3.10.6 is either impressive or a little broken for me...
[09:22] <duflu> 909115392 bytes (909 MB) copied, 1.3706 s, 663 MB/s
[09:22] <duflu> (that's to an old USB stick)
[09:23]  * duflu goes offline testing hardware and kernels for a while
[09:24] <mlankhorst> oh btw about radeon...
[09:25] <mlankhorst> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60674
[09:26]  * smartboyhw doesn't understand why duflu is using a 3.10.6 kernel
[09:26] <smartboyhw> 3.10.7 just released...
[09:59] <mlankhorst> ugh
[10:11] <duflu> alf__, the latest saucy live images seem to refuse to boot... something I noticed on another machine last night. And I can't go back to alpha-2 (only available for non-Unity flavors) because that's too old to have the right kernel. So if you could do some manual radeon testing, please do... lp:~vanvugt/mir/bypass
[10:11] <alf__> duflu: ok, so anything in particular I should try out?
[10:12] <duflu> alf__: Any fullscreen hardware surface (eglplasma or egltriangle -f)
[10:12] <alf__> duflu: ok
[10:12] <duflu> alf__, thanks. I will continue trying to find a newish saucy iso that works
[10:16] <duflu> And with that, I should organize dinner
[11:00] <RAOF> olli: Good morning
[11:00] <katie> hi tvoss_
[11:00] <tvoss_> katie, hey, I have been double booked :/ cannot miss the other meeting unfortunately
[11:01] <katie> tvoss_, ok, can we re-schedule
[11:01] <katie> ?
[11:02] <tvoss_> katie, for sure, today?
[11:03] <RAOF> jammy: Hello
[11:03] <katie> tvoss_, i can do half an hour from now, or else tomorrow is better for me
[11:03] <jammy> raof: hello
[11:03] <tvoss_> jammy, hey
[11:04] <tvoss_> katie, tomorrow then
[11:04] <katie> ok, i'll put something in the calendar :)
[11:04] <jammy> tvoss_: hi, nice to talk to your guys again :)
[11:27] <tvoss_> apt-cache policy unity-system-compositor
[11:27] <tvoss_> unity-system-compositor:
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Installed: 0.0.1+13.10.20130813.1-0ubuntu1
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Candidate: 0.0.1+13.10.20130813.1-0ubuntu1
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Version table:
[11:27] <tvoss_>  *** 0.0.1+13.10.20130813.1-0ubuntu1 0
[11:27] <tvoss_>         500 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ saucy/universe amd64 Packages
[11:27] <tvoss_>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[11:27] <tvoss_> tvoss@x220:~/.phoronix-test-suite/test-results$ apt-cache policy libmirserver1
[11:27] <tvoss_> libmirserver1:
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Installed: 0.0.9+13.10.20130813-0ubuntu1
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Candidate: 0.0.9+13.10.20130813-0ubuntu1
[11:27] <tvoss_>   Version table:
[11:27] <tvoss_>      0.0.9+13.10.20130813-0ubuntu1 0
[11:27] <tvoss_>         500 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ saucy/main amd64 Packages
[11:27] <tvoss_>  *** 0.0.9+13.10.20130813-0ubuntu1 0
[11:27] <tvoss_>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[16:28] <mterry> racarr, heyo!  Got a sec to talk about mir sessions in u-s-c?  I'm testing on my nexus4 and the_shell_session_container() seems empty (yet mir/lightdm/u-s-c seem to be up and I see things on the screen).  What populates that list?  (seems to be sessionmediator in mir, but not sure what calls its connect() method)
[16:40] <alan_g> BRB - I've broken VT switching, need to restart some stuff
[17:25] <racarr> mterry: the protobuf_message_processor
[17:26] <racarr> but if things are working the session container is almost certainly being filled
[17:26] <racarr> you could check for open session, etc, well "connct" with
[17:26] <racarr> MIR_SERVER_SESSION_MEDIATOR_REPORT=log
[17:26] <racarr> perhaps, you are getting the_shell_session_container in a weird way
[17:26] <racarr> i.e. if you just store the CAchedPtr return value
[17:26] <racarr> err
[17:26] <racarr> well, you need to hold
[17:26] <racarr> a strong reference to it
[17:26] <racarr> or you might end up with two
[18:27] <mterry> I got disconnected, resending in case I was already timed out...
 racarr, sorry, was away for lunch
 racarr, it seems that it's filled from platform-api.  So apps themselves might fill it...  but I think the shell/greeter aren't.   Not sure if they should or even if I'm reading the situation right
[18:28] <racarr> mterry: Ah ok
[18:28] <racarr> it's filled from the RPC layer as basically
[18:28] <racarr> the session is like connection or something
[18:28] <racarr> there is no session for shell/greeter surfaces.
[18:29] <racarr> i.e. inprocess
[18:29] <mterry> racarr, but don't they act as a client for the u-s-c?  I'd think they'd call mir_connect to connect to the system mir
[18:30] <racarr> no, so
[18:30] <racarr> we don't have nested mir at the moment, but lets say we did and then
[18:30] <racarr> there is USC, which iwll jjust hve one session
[18:30] <racarr> "session mir"
[18:30] <racarr> and the session mir has application sessions, and shell surfaces, etc.
[18:30] <racarr> in the session mir
[18:30] <racarr> the shell surfaces, are all inprocess clients
[18:30] <racarr> so there is no mir_connect, and no session
[18:31] <racarr> there could be a session of some sort invented I guess. haven't come up with a usecase/sensible way to do it so far
[18:35] <mterry> racarr, shell surfaces are inprocess clients to what?  To their own mir servers?  But aren't they also clients to the u-s-c?  So they'd do a mir_connect to it, I would have thought.  I guess I'm missing how u-s-c views the shell surface, if it doesn't think of them as a client session...
[18:35] <racarr> mterry: u-s-c never sees shell surfaces
[18:35] <racarr> u-s-c just sees
[18:36] <racarr> greeter, maybe bootsplash and stuff like that, and one surface
[18:36] <racarr> for each user session
[18:36] <mterry> racarr, ok, sorry.  I guess when I said 'shell surface' I meant user session surface
[18:36] <racarr> oh ok like the whole
[18:36] <racarr> session
[18:36] <racarr> that
[18:36] <mterry> racarr, so greeter/user should be registered as sessions in u-s-c, right?
[18:36] <racarr> should be in the_session_container yeah
[18:37] <racarr> but, we don't have nested mir at the moment so you couldn't actually do that right?
[18:37] <mterry> OK, I'm not seeing that now.  So somewhere that's being messed up (and may be my own patches...)
[18:37] <mterry> racarr, we don't have nested mir?
[18:37] <mterry> racarr, how is u-s-c supposed to work then?
[18:37] <mterry> just xmir?
[18:37] <racarr> yep just xmir
[18:37] <racarr> nested mir is still in progress
[18:37] <racarr> some parts of it started to land
[18:38] <mterry> racarr, ok.  So maybe I'm still getting ahead of myself.  :(   /me is eager to try to test whole system integration with a split greeter on phone
[18:38] <racarr> :(
[18:39] <racarr> you could use little Qt apps that display a picture as fake session clients of u-s-c
[18:39] <racarr> to get things going
[18:39] <racarr> it just wont be as satisfying lol
[18:39] <mterry> racarr, well, I'm actually able to get the greeter and shell to be run by lightdm
[18:39] <mterry> racarr, but they don't seem to talk to u-s-c at all, and I can't switch between them
[18:40] <racarr> I don't know what exactly is going on byt my guess is its just
[18:40] <racarr> two entirey seperate mir servers
[18:40] <mterry> hrm
[19:52] <thomi> morning
[19:58] <bschaefer> hmm there seems to be a recent memory leak in: mir_connection_create_display_config
[19:58] <bschaefer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5990319/
[20:00] <bschaefer> as the eglapp is calling the correct destroy function as well...so it appears to be mir hanging on to something?
[20:13] <bschaefer> found the leak :)
[20:15] <bschaefer> when anyone has time: https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/mir/clean-up-config-cards/+merge/180413
[20:17] <arsson> unity8
[21:07] <jono> olli, which BP tracks the composite bypass work?
[21:53] <jono> tvoss_, olli, http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/15/mir-update-and-testing-mir-in-ubuntu-13-10/
[21:57] <tvoss_> jono, thx
[21:58] <jono> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/GPUTesting is growing :-)
[21:58] <racarr> oh wow!
[22:04] <arsson> you could add geforce gt420 to failure for now
[22:24] <arsson> but when using propreitary graphics driver it fell back to X


[00:14] <co1or> hi?
[00:23] <co1or> i have a ques: did GNU/Linux make use of any Unix source code? or was it *100%* coded from scratch?
[00:50] <valorie> it was ported from minux
[00:51] <valorie> so someone else had done that work already, but otoh - minux didn't DO much
[00:51] <valorie> the gnu project has their own two kernel
[00:52] <valorie> in any case, this is offtopic for this chan


[08:18] <cjwatson> ev: I dunno.  I do sort of agree with Joey, and I hate the idea of keeping a patch like that against debconf forever.  Is there a strong reason for us to push it?
[11:00] <ev> cjwatson: we could enable debug mode by default during development and not have to ask people to run through the installer a second time (especially when they've since completed a successful install).
[11:03] <ev> is there a reason why it's considered a hack?  Other than the regex on "SET " it seems quite clean, and I can't see why the aforementioned bit is that bad.
[11:03] <ev> err rather, "why do you consider it a hack"
[12:51] <cjwatson> ev: having to parse the command twice is pretty ugly, but the really ugly bit is having to figure out the question type right at the start like that
[12:51] <cjwatson> ev: maybe we could have that hack in debconf just during development, not sure
[12:52] <cjwatson> I think I would strongly prefer it not to be present for release
[12:52] <ev> that sounds like a reasonable compromise if we cannot come up with anything better.
[14:14] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r210 ubuntu/ (68 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 141
[14:21] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r211 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 141ubuntu1


[00:44] <Bashing-om> nacc: Are you free to look at what I see as a packaging error - in main channel ?
[00:55] <nacc> Bashing-om: about to step away for the night, sorry
[00:55] <nacc> Bashing-om: i can try and help tmrw
[00:56] <nacc> Bashing-om: openjdk-9 probably shouldn't be used by anyoneyet (iirc, it's still beta)
[00:56] <nacc> but i can look at it in more depth first thing tmrw
[00:56] <nacc> i'm technically a java (well, tomcat*) maintainer for us :)
[00:59] <Bashing-om> nacc: K; I see you active in #ubuntu-release . Reason that you poped to mind in this regard, IRT: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24179605/ .
[01:10] <Bashing-om> nacc: Doh ! .. Turns out this is android-studio .  Busy Beaver (A Busy Beaver means a Turing machine that attains the maximum "operational busyness").
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> 19.04 dreamy ducasse
[06:40] <OerHeks> no, 18.04 is HBD
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> hbd?
[06:42] <Bashing-om> Here Be Dragons ??
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:46] <OerHeks> uhhh TBD
[06:46] <OerHeks> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/shuttleworth_unity_8_carrots/
[06:46] <OerHeks> searching for HBD + ubuntu gave zipp :-D
[06:47] <OerHeks> http://www.zdnet.com/article/canonical-extends-ubuntu-12-04-support-for-paying-customers/
[06:49] <daftykins> that's a lot of dinero
[06:51] <OerHeks> who would do that ..
[06:51] <daftykins> those caught beneath managers perhaps :D
[06:52]  * OerHeks looks in #u .. that Kiiki again ..
[06:52] <daftykins> bad customer?
[06:53] <OerHeks> first trolling, then accusing me of lying about my hardware.
[06:53] <daftykins> o0
[06:54] <OerHeks> i have the same ati 5450 running fine, 2 monitors, i can even run 2 video's
[06:55] <daftykins> must be someone with remnant fglrx or different versions of something
[06:56] <OerHeks> well, the stupid questions yesterday, not leaving the channel, and claims he installed 16.04.2 now
[06:56] <OerHeks> so /ignore
[06:56] <daftykins> *nod*
[07:11] <Bashing-om> Outa here - More much later .
[07:23] <EriC^^> morning
[07:23] <OerHeks> hey EriC^^
[07:24] <EriC^^> hey OerHeks
[07:25] <OerHeks> Just voted for our gouvernment-poosers
[07:26] <OerHeks> now we have to wait 'till tuesday for the results... like it was 1888
[07:28] <EriC^^> :D
[07:28] <EriC^^> what does poosers mean?
[07:33] <OerHeks> They say a, and do b, and make up reason c
[07:34] <OerHeks> just normal politics
[07:34] <EriC^^> ah :D
[08:34] <ducasse> good morning all!
[08:36] <EriC^^> morning ducasse
[08:37] <ducasse> hi EriC^^, what's up? :)
[08:37] <EriC^^> not much, raining heavily here
[08:37] <EriC^^> what about you?
[08:37] <daftykins> \o
[08:38] <daftykins> OerHeks: was it paper based?
[08:38] <ducasse> now i have tea, so all is good. morning, daftykins.
[08:38] <daftykins> :D i have coffee and a southern fried chicken wrap
[08:39] <daftykins> weirdest bulb i ever bought https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2t6hnd1nhipkxl/IMG_20170315_082156.jpg?dl=0
[08:42] <ducasse> daftykins: from a distance it looks like there are three tiny candles inside it :)
[08:42] <daftykins> hehe
[08:47] <daftykins> i cycled ever so gently with it!
[09:03] <ducasse> daftykins: considering this to replace my aging rpi2 - https://osmc.tv/vero/
[09:04] <ducasse> not that i need 4k or hdr _now_, but you never know :)
[09:05] <daftykins> uh oh the OSMC folks
[09:06] <daftykins> :>
[09:09] <ducasse> *shrug* haven't tested that in a couple of years or so.
[09:11] <daftykins> all the cool kids seem to be using LibreELEC these days, at least it worked well for my clients old atom+ion1 x86 HTPCs
[09:11] <daftykins> but yeah, not sure what i'd buy today - i'm using a first gen Amazon FireTV right now
[09:11] <ducasse> i'm no longer a cool kid ;)
[09:12] <ducasse> atm i'm running xbian, which i quite like.
[09:12] <daftykins> ah if you run anything debian based and want Kodi, then i have several sharp items i'd like to introduce you to...
[09:13] <ducasse> :)
[09:13] <ducasse> the weird thing is that it's been working like an absolute charm, compared to everything else i've tried.
[09:14] <daftykins> we just get too many folks coming in that don't know how much the debian folk bastardise Kodi due to their crazy beliefs
[09:15] <ducasse> oh, this doesn't run debian kodi, but xbian kodi. big diff.
[09:16] <ducasse> they add a repo, replace a few packages and add some. their own kernel, libcec etc.
[09:17] <daftykins> they actually up to date with current releases then?
[09:19] <ducasse> i'm on 17 something now.
[09:19] <daftykins> ja
[09:19] <daftykins> personally CEC annoys me more than it could ever be of any use :)
[09:20] <daftykins> had to disable it on my clients 4K bluray player 'cause it kept interrupting what they were watching with another source, by making the receiver change to it
[09:20] <OerHeks> daftykins, yes paperbased, as voting machines can be hacked by powerled
[09:20] <OerHeks> :-D
[09:20] <daftykins> :D
[09:21] <ducasse> here it kept resetting the resolution and screen calibration, so i had to disable it as well.
[09:21] <daftykins> ah har
[09:22] <ducasse> really annoying, every time i switched to that output i had to recalibrate the screen. veeery funny.
[09:24] <daftykins> sounds like some kinda desktop Linux!
[09:24]  * daftykins ducks
[09:25] <ducasse> it is, after a bit of fiddling it's much better than any of the alternatives ;)
[09:27] <OerHeks> i think you need a bigger monitor, ducasse, at least 29"
[09:28] <ducasse> no room for more, i've got 3x24"
[09:29] <ducasse> might swap one of them for a 27", but not 29"
[09:29] <OerHeks> oh oke
[09:29] <OerHeks> i got this 29" inch for free, was happy the 1st hour .. now i understad
[09:29] <OerHeks> c/understand
[09:30] <ducasse> they're too big imo
[09:30] <OerHeks> if it had hdmi, i would make it a tv, just connect it to the cable-box
[09:31] <ducasse> right, it would be an excellent bedroom tv for example. what kind of inputs does it have?
[09:31] <OerHeks> dvi & vga :-(
[09:32] <ducasse> you can get dvi -> hdmi cables, i've got one
[09:32] <OerHeks> i know, but the cable-box does not like that stuff
[09:33] <ducasse> ah.
[09:33] <OerHeks> hey BluesKaj
[09:33] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[09:33] <ducasse> \o
[09:33] <BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks , ducasse
[09:34] <BluesKaj> I'm up early...again
[09:35] <OerHeks> Just in time, it is your turn, next support Q is yours :-D
[09:39] <BluesKaj> heh. I need more coffee in that case
[09:39] <ducasse> BluesKaj: what do you think of this? thinking of getting one. https://osmc.tv/vero/
[09:49] <BluesKaj> seems impressive, has a kodi OSMC based on debian so it looks like it has a lot of options
[09:49] <BluesKaj> more upscale approach than those chinese kodi boxes
[09:50] <ducasse> yeah, i don't want one of them, try to avoid cheap chinese stuff as most of it's crap.
[09:51] <ducasse> it looks to do what i'm likely to need for at least a few years.
[09:52] <BluesKaj> yeah exactly , a rpi3 with raspbian-pixel and kodi would be much better
[09:53] <BluesKaj> than the junky chinese black boxes
[09:54] <ducasse> agreed, but afaik it does not do hevc, which i want support for.
[10:06] <BluesKaj> ok, 4k compression codec (had to do some reading), that's important alright, and the vero delivers according to the website. then it's your best choice, unless there are others that do the same for less money
[10:09] <BluesKaj> guess $150 isn't too much for a quality device
[10:12] <ducasse> say it last three years, i can live with that. i can probably use it for longer as well.
[10:18] <EriC^^> hey Wire
[10:18] <EriC^^> Wirehunter
[10:22] <Wirehunter> EriC^^, hey
[10:23] <ducasse> \o
[10:23] <Wirehunter> Good morning everyone :)
[10:25] <BluesKaj> 'Morning EriC^^, Wirehunter
[10:26] <daftykins> Wirehunter: oh i saw you mention bumblebee btw, for a number of years now that's covered by nvidia-prime - depending on whether your machine is a mux or muxless setup
[10:26] <EriC^^> morning BluesKaj daftykins
[10:27] <daftykins> heya :)
[10:27] <BluesKaj> Hi daftykins
[10:27] <daftykins> how is Eric land?
[10:27] <daftykins> BluesKaj: hey, catch any snow?
[10:27] <BluesKaj> daftykins, nope. it missed us
[10:27] <daftykins> ah that's lucky
[10:27] <ducasse> snow melting rapidly here \o/
[10:28] <BluesKaj> too far north here ..we're still basking in the cold and sunshine
[10:29] <BluesKaj> sun is melting the snow very slowly at -7C
[10:29] <BluesKaj> will be +4 by sat tho
[10:31] <ducasse> +10 here, probably
[10:32] <BluesKaj> we don't get the benefit of any warm ocean currents here, only the whims of the jet stream and whether it's north or south of us
[10:33] <Wirehunter> daftykins, Bumblebee has been rewritten, still a good choice I think.
[10:34] <daftykins> hrmm o rly, well it can't be easier than just installing the proprietary driver to get -prime :>
[10:34] <daftykins> gah another 3 months and i'll be useless at anything *buntu!
[10:34] <daftykins> too much change
[10:34] <Wirehunter> daftykins, As it allows for nvidia to be loaded on demand instead of having to reboot the system or log out and back in
[10:34] <BluesKaj> Wirehunter, yeah. I saw something about that , thinh we can reconsider recommending bumblebee for those unfortunate optimus users again
[10:34] <daftykins> ah well see that sounds like a muxless setup which is a lot rarer o0
[10:35] <daftykins> most folks have a muxing setup where the chips just both work at once then whichever is told to run runs, no reboots, no nothing
[10:36] <Wirehunter> That would be great, but if I switch to my gpu, I get asked to log-out
[10:36] <Wirehunter> And if I do, GDM crashes and I have to reboot
[10:37] <Wirehunter> Maybe that's just a config issue
[10:37] <EriC^^> daftykins: doing good
[10:37] <EriC^^> raining pretty heavily here though
[10:38] <Wirehunter> But with bumblebee you completely cut the gpu out, so less power usage
[10:38] <Wirehunter> I think even less than using nvidia-prime swiched to Intel
[10:38] <daftykins> that doesn't sound right at all
[10:38] <daftykins> but then optimus and Linux are just laughable
[10:39] <Wirehunter> Yes, that's true.
[10:42] <Wirehunter> And gaming performance still is quite bad. My laptop should easily be running cities: skylines on maxed out settings on Windows. But I have to reduce the resolution to make it even playable. :P
[10:42] <Wirehunter> Not that gaming is that important :)
[10:43] <Wirehunter> I'm already happy that everything seems to work with a plymouth or an xorg crash every now and then
[10:43] <daftykins> certainly doesn't go with laptops ;D
[10:45] <ducasse> or linux :)
[10:49] <Wirehunter> Yeah, maybe I'll populate the second M.2 slot and install Windows on that. I hope the firmware on my laptop is at good at selecting what efi bootloader to use as my desktop is.
[10:50] <Wirehunter> UEFI can make dualbooting so much easier
[10:50] <daftykins> :) or make it hell
[10:50] <daftykins> EriC^^ loves a good challenge though ;)
[10:51] <ducasse> uefi <3 :)
[10:52] <Wirehunter> On my desktop, in the boot options screen, multiple bootloaders show up, even if they are installed on the same disk. But since it seems so hard on other people's systems, maybe it's not always as easy as this.
[10:52] <BluesKaj> Wirehunter, you mean gpt don't you ?
[10:52] <daftykins> no you can get variations in the same family of branded laptop/desktop
[10:53] <daftykins> nah GPT is solely GUID Partition Table, it doesn't provide any of the benefits
[10:53] <daftykins> simply one item in the 'recipe' of EFI :)
[10:54] <Wirehunter> gpt is what you want to use using uefi, but the bootloaders are installed on a fat32 partition(in my case)
[10:54] <BluesKaj> seems to me that UEFI is a real stumbling block for most dusl booters, mainly a pita to setup
[10:54] <ducasse> Wirehunter: your machine should also have a boot manager in the firmware, where you can manage boot entries through efi firmware variables. you then hold a key to bring up the menu on boot and select the os/efi binary you want
[10:55] <BluesKaj> dusl=dual
[10:55] <Wirehunter> Ah, I've to back my stuff as I arrived on trainstation again :P
[11:07] <EriC^^> !ping
[11:13] <EriC^^> !ping
[11:16] <daftykins> :>
[11:22] <EriC^^> wb Wirehunter
[11:23] <EriC^^> i get the feeling you're a spy on a mission or something
[11:23] <EriC^^> is it true? :D
[11:23] <Wirehunter> I wish
[11:23] <Wirehunter> I'm a student commuting by train everyday
[11:24] <OerHeks> No, he is secretly SABDFL
[11:24] <OerHeks> :-D
[11:24] <Wirehunter> What is SABDFL? :P
[11:24] <OerHeks> oh, come on mark ..
[11:24] <ducasse> shuttleworth
[11:25] <Wirehunter> `http://askubuntu.com/questions/1020/who-is-sabdfl-what-does-he-do
[11:25] <Wirehunter> Haha, TIL SABDFL
[11:25] <OerHeks> the guy of bug1
[11:26] <EriC^^> his cover was blown
[11:29] <EriC^^> these fish are so werid btw
[11:29] <Wirehunter> Ohw, I accidently hid joined channels by clicking on them. Wat weird magic caused this?
[11:30] <OerHeks> oh, that was me
[11:31] <OerHeks> actually, if nobody is to blame, it was me
[11:34] <Wirehunter> Ah, okay
[11:47] <BluesKaj> hi de-facto
[12:24] <pauljw> hi everyone
[12:26] <BluesKaj> Hi pauljw, what's up today ?
[12:36] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj, not much, not near enough coffee yet this morning... :)
[12:43] <BluesKaj> pauljw, well I've back on my coffee intake to 2mugs from 3 due to sour stomach issues . It seems to help
[12:43] <BluesKaj> cut back
[12:44] <BluesKaj> love my coffee tho :-)
[12:46] <pauljw> :) love it too, I have cut back, but still drink lots...
[12:58] <pauljw> brb...
[13:42] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[13:46] <ducasse> hiya lotus
[13:47] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse :p
[13:48] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[13:48] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> hi EriC^^ :p
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> its so sunny over here
[13:49] <EriC^^> opposite here, it's raining a lot here
[13:49] <EriC^^> went for a drive, hydroplaning a lot, came back home shortly
[13:49] <EriC^^> before you ask, hydroplaning is when there's so much water on the road the car will steer by itself to a side
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> yeah i knew :p
[13:50] <EriC^^> lol
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> aka aquaplanning
[13:50] <BluesKaj> floats above the pavement alsmost
[13:51] <BluesKaj> scary wehn you hydroplane at 110Km /hr
[13:51] <EriC^^> yeah indeed
[13:51] <EriC^^> most scary is the guys in suv's who think they're invincible
[13:51] <lotuspsychje> lol
[13:52] <EriC^^> some guy was like flashing his headlights and stuff so i moved and he zooms by at like 140km or something and the water splashes my car gives it a wash
[13:53] <lotuspsychje> 140+140 = crash hard
[13:56] <EriC^^> these fish are so odd, can't really figure them out
[13:57] <EriC^^> i put them yesterday in this round blue container, thought they'd have a good swim around, at night i was checking on them and they were like spooked out and not swimming, and the dotted black one became fully red, lost his black marks
[13:57] <EriC^^> he wasn't eating either, usually all he does is go around eat, he didnt want to eat anything and just followed the other one around(usually it's the opposite he gets followed)
[13:58] <EriC^^> so i put them back in their usual container that's transparent, he got his black color again and started swimming and eating and they're fighting over food and stuff again
[13:58] <ducasse> are they still eating puke? :)
[13:58] <EriC^^> now they're like still freaked out a little, i put food for them, they won't touch it and go grab the food barely get a bite on it and swim down quickly
[13:59] <EriC^^> so i put my finger over the container and made some noises i usually make to call them, so they swam up next to my finger and started eating casually again, i think they're used to me feeding them and my finger being there
[14:00] <EriC^^> i felt like a breast feeding girl or something, like i had to keep my finger at the surface for them to eat otherwise they'd swim down all afraid
[14:00] <EriC^^> lol
[14:01] <ducasse> you're a dad now, EriC^^ :)
[14:02] <EriC^^> lol
[14:04] <EriC^^> the color thing is odd though, the black one almost turned white
[14:05] <ducasse> strange, but i know colors changing can happen to certain species. stress, maybe?
[14:06] <EriC^^> yeah they supposedly get black spots due to stress and other stuff, but the odd thing is that they wouldn't eat in that container so that doesn't make sense, seems like it was causing them stress
[14:06] <EriC^^> so it doesn't add up
[14:08] <ducasse> there's very likely a goldfish forum somewhere where you can ask
[14:08] <ducasse> i mean, what *isn't* there a forum for?
[14:08] <EriC^^> i was thinking about getting them an inflatable pool and putting it in a corner in the balcony and let them go nuts in it all they want
[14:08] <nicomachus> http://www.reddit.com/r/aquariums
[14:09] <EriC^^> it would be like 1100liters so they could grow out to their natural size there and not get stunted and stuff
[14:09] <EriC^^> right now they're in like 20liters
[14:10] <EriC^^> it's pretty sad
[14:10] <ducasse> maybe that's what's stressing them
[14:11] <EriC^^> yeah it could be, especially that they fight a lot, when i put them in the container first thing they did was red one was chasing the black one around and kind of dominating him not to eat i think
[14:13] <EriC^^> there's a shop that cuts glass next block, i should pass by and make a custom aquarium for them, like 120liters or so
[14:25] <lotuspsychje> there, muted all my bug subsriptions
[14:27] <ducasse> jeez, private info in partition tables? is he serious?
[14:27] <EriC^^> it's funny he's like ok i'll give 2 disks, but not the rest
[14:27] <EriC^^> :D
[14:28] <EriC^^> if it comes down to chrooting to reinstall grub, i think it will be difficult to help
[14:29] <ducasse> it's silly. why this paranoia? he won't be willing to pastebin result of any commands at all.
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> !grep
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> : (
[14:31] <ducasse> no edits yet?
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> nop, we need dax ducasse
[14:32] <ducasse> EriC^^: if he's this concerned about privacy, why is he installing w10? ;)
[14:32] <EriC^^> lol true
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> elky: the volunteers of discuss found this wiki for !grep as request: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/grep wanna take a look?
[15:31] <ducasse> or if any other ops have the time? ^^
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> uh oh lag comming up
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
[15:57] <lotuspsychje> !info snapd xenial
[15:57] <lotuspsychje> hi nacc
[15:57] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: how come it says optional, and installed on xenial server?
[15:59] <nacc> lotuspsychje: morning!
[16:00] <nacc> lotuspsychje: because priority means nothing
[16:00] <nacc> iirc
[16:00] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: it's recommended by ubuntu-server
[16:00] <nacc> well, there's required and optional, and snapd is seeded
[16:01] <lotuspsychje> i see
[16:01] <elky> lotuspsychje: please ask in #ubuntu-ops rather than targetting people. the last time you asked it was midnight, there are more people around now
[16:01] <lotuspsychje> !snap
[16:03] <lotuspsychje> elky: we have tried every ways with several volunteers, in #ubuntu-ops, the ubottu request method and specific ops...nothing happened..what else can we do?
[16:04] <lotuspsychje> only dax helped us in the past
[16:04] <elky> you need to remember that not everyone reads all scrollbacks. ask in the ops channel several times until you get a response but don't burden individual people who may be, say, in the middle of mixing up a loaf of bread
[16:04]  * nicomachus holds his hands out for fresh bread
[16:05] <elky> nicomachus: it's a little uncooked
[16:05] <nicomachus> oh. well, I'll wait. It's a little early for lunch anyway
[16:08] <elky> lotuspsychje: it also helps to give the full factoid replacement, the delay now is me figuring out what the factoid should say
[16:08] <lotuspsychje> elky: i understand the ops cant log requests 24/7, we you also understand we cant spam the same stuff over and over
[16:09] <elky> once a day or once every couple of days isn't a problem
[16:09] <lotuspsychje> okay ill remember that
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> elky: ill spread the word, we can use the ubottu method at crowdy times with the full factoid text
[16:11] <elky> that wiki page also lacks an example of 'a stream'
[16:11] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: now you need a wiki editor as well ;)
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:12] <elky> so if you feel enthusiastic you could improve it
[16:12] <elky> (just pointing out that it says a thing that's not explained)
[16:13] <lotuspsychje> well its better then howto use the terminal no?
[16:14] <lotuspsychje> wiki is edited july 2016
[16:17] <lotuspsychje> and 3 usefull links at more infromation
[16:18] <elky> well yes, but it's really quite lacking and i'd rather link directly to something that lists some common flags and a few more examples
[16:19] <elky> so if you think it will have those things soon, then i'll do the edit, but otherwise there are probably better things to link to that are somewhere between that and the man page
[16:20] <ducasse> if i type up a few additions and submit it to the wiki editors, could it be used? i've been considering helping out with the wiki anyhow.
[16:20] <elky> i would suggest something that has an example of recursive grep and a stream, and some other useful flags like -i -F etc
[16:20] <elky> not too complex but just a little more than what is there now
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> good idea, anything that will help users in main
[16:21] <elky> ducasse: that'd be great, i'll edit the wiki to that page then :)
[16:21] <ducasse> exactly, probably -v as well. i'll take a look tomorrow.
[16:22] <elky> !grep
[16:23] <elky> your turn :P
[16:23] <lotuspsychje> nice one elky
[16:24] <EriC^^> did you guys fix the ubottu vulnerability?
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> yeah another flaw EriC^^ reported a long time ago
[16:24] <EriC^^> msging from outside the channel
[16:27] <elky> the what?
[16:27] <elky> you're supposed to be able to pm the bot if that's what you're wondering
 wants you to know: hello (source: hello): example package based on GNU hello. In component main, is optional. Version 2.10-1 (xenial), package size 26 kB, installed size 104 kB
[16:29] <EriC^^> still there?
[16:29] <elky> how is that a vulnerability?
[16:30] <EriC^^> elky: let's say somebody floods the channel, you kick him out, he can use the bot to flood from outside the channel
[16:30] <EriC^^> dos'ing the ubottu service
[16:30] <elky> the bot has ratelimiting
[16:30] <EriC^^> to 1 user yes
[16:31] <EriC^^> and how much even for 1?
[16:31] <EriC^^> !info this-is-a-very-long-string-to-flood-blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla
[16:31] <EriC^^> !info this-is-a-very-long-string-to-flood-blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla
[16:32] <EriC^^> !grep
[16:32] <EriC^^> !grub
[16:32] <EriC^^> !flood
[16:32] <EriC^^> !yay
[16:32] <EriC^^> you get the point
[16:37] <elky> not really, and there isn't any bug logged in the bugtracker
[16:38] <EriC^^> not really what?
[16:38] <EriC^^> try to stop this channel from flooding
[16:38] <elky> i can ban you from the bot
[16:39] <EriC^^> well what if i have 100 ip's?
[16:39] <elky> then i'm not going to be able to ban you from the channel either
[16:40] <EriC^^> last time some guy flipped out on the channel he was flooding with dozens and dozens
[16:40] <elky> you'll get in, factoid and part
[16:40] <EriC^^> well the channel can be contained, +r
[16:40] <EriC^^> with this ubottu vuln nobody can use the bot anymore, you'll have to mute it
[16:42] <elky> considering i'd rather do away with factoid bots i consider that a win tbh
[16:42] <EriC^^> -.-
[16:43] <nicomachus> aw. but I love ubottu
[16:43] <nicomachus> and ubot5
[16:43] <EriC^^> just say it, "i'm lazy and dont wanna fix it"
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:45] <elky> i'm not the bot's maintainer, but the maintainer isn't seeing a report for this either so you've been sitting on this for how long now?
[16:45] <EriC^^> i told people about it, um, let's see
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> he reported in #ubuntu-ops
[16:46] <EriC^^> almost 3 years ago when i first joined freenode/ubuntu
[16:46] <elky> "told people"
[16:46] <elky> who?
[16:47] <EriC^^> elky: lol why are you making this about me?
[16:47] <EriC^^> the ops were aware of it in the channel
[16:47] <elky> was the bot's maintainer aware of it?
[16:47] <EriC^^> as well as pm's to dax later and i've joined #ubuntu-ops a couple times every 6months or so and brought it up
[16:48] <EriC^^> but anyways i dont have to justify anything and i'm not on trial here for anything, get real
[16:49] <elky> you're complaining that something didn't get fixed and i'm trying to figure out where you expected us to read
[16:49] <EriC^^> elky: i dont know and i dont care frankly, i told the ops, they know, just asked if it was fixed earlier, you said "it's not an issue" that was funny, and now you're trying to witch hunt me
[16:49] <elky> when has it been an issue yet?
[16:50] <EriC^^> elky: i'm not complaining, you were arguing that it's not a vuln at all, i was responding
[16:50] <EriC^^> whatever
[16:54] <ducasse> ok, i put in a request to join the wiki editors team, and i'll need a day or so to read up on formatting guidelines etc before i can write up the additions to the grep page.
[16:55] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: great!
[16:55] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: i'll let you know :)
[16:55] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[17:00] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: you can safely request the factoid on secureboot/dkms now also :p
[17:01] <ducasse> not pushing my luck ;)
[17:01] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/
[17:01] <ducasse> there's a -bots channel as well, isn't there?
[17:15] <pavlushka> Good day lotuspsychje :)
[17:17] <ducasse> hi pavlushka :)
[17:17] <pavlushka> Hello ducasse :)
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> hey pavlushka
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> our codename discussion from this morning came alive :p
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/a-look-back-at-every-ubuntu-default-wallpaper
[18:08] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: i think it was sweet of you to give me 19.04 :)
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> you were still in dreamland
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> bbl dinner
[23:04] <Guest28070> Hey
[23:04] <Guest28070> Is there a way to donate to ubuntu on a monthly basis via paypal?
[23:07] <Guest28070> no?
[23:08] <OerHeks> Guest28070, to your local community? or ubuntu community general?
[23:08] <OerHeks> https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute there is a paypal button
[23:08] <Guest28070> aw dang! thanks!
[23:09] <OerHeks> yw
[23:09] <Guest28070> oh wait, it's not like a monthly thing but a one time donation
[23:10] <Guest28070> Meh
[23:12] <OerHeks> maybe you can set a periodic payment with paypal itself?
[23:13] <Guest28070> How?
[23:14] <OerHeks> I don't use paypal myself, https://www.paypal.com/pdn-recurring
[23:14] <OerHeks> recurring payments
[23:15] <OerHeks> not sure that is what it sounds like ..
[23:17] <Guest28070> googled "set up a recurring payment in paypal" and it said that the seller had to set it up
[23:17] <Guest28070> oh well
[23:19] <OerHeks> :-(


[03:39] <MrCurious> persia: it finished cooking
[03:40] <MrCurious> and it made a bunch of _armel.udeb files and some armel.deb
[04:01] <MrCurious> persia: this look right to you? linux-headers-2.6.38-1208_2.6.38-1208.11_armel.deb  linux-headers-2.6.38-1208-omap4_2.6.38-1208.11_armel.deb  linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4_2.6.38-1208.11_armel.deb  linux-ti-omap4-tools-2.6.38-1208_2.6.38-1208.11_armel.deb
[04:11] <MrCurious> history
[06:35] <MrCurious> anyone here who has built a ubuntu 11.04 kernel on arm in teh past month?
[06:36] <MrCurious> i would love to compare your procedure against the one i got pointed to
[06:38] <MrCurious> :( all i want is a kernel with todays usb patch
[06:56] <MrCurious> sudo apt-get build-dep linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4
[06:57] <MrCurious> Picking 'linux-ti-omap4' as source package instead of 'linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4'
[06:57] <MrCurious> no apt-get, YOU DO NOT KNOW BETTER!
[06:57] <MrCurious> and sadly, i dont know how to get around this
[07:00] <StevenK> MrCurious: Yes it does. linux-ti-omap4 is a source package, which contains the Build-Depends, linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4 is a binary package, which has no concept of Build-Depends.
[07:01] <MrCurious> but when i try to play along with the instructions here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel
[07:01] <MrCurious> it derails with fakeroot debian/rules binary-headers binary-generic
[07:01] <MrCurious> as there is no binary-generic
[07:01] <MrCurious> dont suppose i could petition you tohold my hand with this process some?
[07:01] <MrCurious> or point to a set of instructions for doing it
[07:02] <StevenK> I have no idea, sorry. I was just pointing out that apt-get is reporting a correct message.
[07:02] <MrCurious> ok
[07:03] <MrCurious> then i will continue on and try binary-arch instead of binary-generic
[08:47] <persia> MrCurious, The kernel you compiled is inside linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4_2.6.38-1208.11_armel.deb : install this package (`dpkg -i`` may be helpful).
[08:48] <MrCurious> i think i tried that and something went amiss
[08:48] <MrCurious> on a new compile recipe now http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_kernel_for_OMAP4
[08:48] <MrCurious> giving that a crack
[09:03] <MrCurious> well that build instruction is a bust
[09:03] <MrCurious> the working origin/ti-omap4 branch is a bust
[09:08] <persia> Well, expanding on "something went amiss" and "is a bust" is likely to get more information.
[09:08] <persia> I make it a point to actively avoid building my own kernels, and even when I do need to generate a kernel, tend to do it by uploading it to an archive, and then installing it.
[09:09] <persia> So I'm probably not the best person to provide insight here.
[09:09] <MrCurious> perhaps i am attacking this upside down
[09:09] <persia> ppisati, Any suggestions on how to tweak linux-ti-omap4 locally to play with different config settings?
[09:09] <MrCurious> i should really say where i want to be, rather then some point on the road i think leads there
[09:09] <persia> Always :)
[09:10] <MrCurious> there is a patch to the usb code
[09:10] <MrCurious> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/pipermail/poky/2011-June/006649.html
[09:10] <MrCurious> i want a kernel for ubuntu panda with THAT fix
[09:10] <MrCurious> do you know a easier way to get that one line fix in
[09:10] <MrCurious> to a kernel that i can get installed :D
[09:11] <MrCurious> see any alt paths than the one i am on?
[09:12] <MrCurious> getting further with this source tree :D
[09:13] <MrCurious> lets hope that WARNINGS are normal for kernel builds on this platform
[09:14] <persia> There's a bug outstanding.  I don't have the bug number in my immediately-accessible logs.
[09:14] <MrCurious> no worries
[09:14] <persia> The easiest solution is to just wait until someone uploads a kernel with the patch, but that doesn't help with either doing it soon, or with learning how to help test patches in the future to help them get uploadede faster.
[09:15] <MrCurious> can i get you to ping me in days to come if you know how i can get my fingers on a fixed kernel with that fix
[09:15] <ppisati> persia: what you mean? any config in particular?
[09:15] <persia> No.  I'll forget :)
[09:16] <ppisati> MrCurious: unfortuntaly that fix doesn't work
[09:16] <persia> ppisati, MrCurious wants to help test https://lists.yoctoproject.org/pipermail/poky/2011-June/006649.html but I don't seem to be able to find good instructions that let that happen.
[09:16] <MrCurious> it seems prplplague has tested and verified the performance of the fix
[09:16] <persia> Could you help?
[09:16] <ppisati> MrCurious: nor the other one suggested in that thread
[09:16] <MrCurious> you mean no performance perk?
[09:16] <ppisati> actually i tried it yesterday, and it didn't work
[09:16] <ppisati> i mean that fix
[09:16] <ppisati> uhm
[09:17] <MrCurious> didnt work as in compile bug, or clean build, no affect on behavior
[09:17] <ppisati> no affect, the change is trivial
[09:17] <ppisati> you can change the attribute the way they say, or entirely delete that attribute line
[09:17] <MrCurious> just to lay a few lashes on the dead horse...
[09:17] <MrCurious> we are talking file: include/linux/usb/ehci_def.h
[09:18] <ppisati> no changes in beahevious, usb devices are still MIA
[09:18] <MrCurious> new line
[09:18] <MrCurious> __attribute__ ((packed,aligned(__alignof__(int))));
[09:18] <ppisati> yes
[09:18] <ppisati> MrCurious: did you try it?
[09:18] <MrCurious> my usb devices are all present
[09:18] <ppisati> really?
[09:18] <ppisati> which kernel?
[09:18] <MrCurious> just way slower than on every other machine
[09:18] <MrCurious> this fix only came out in past 24 hours
[09:18] <ppisati> i know
[09:18] <ppisati> wait
[09:19] <MrCurious> [pandaboard] Speed Problems with USB HDD or Networking
[09:19] <MrCurious> that thread
[09:19] <ppisati> https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux-linaro/+bug/747639
[09:19] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 747639 in linux-linaro "No USB devices on omap3 (beagle/overo) with recent linaro-2.6.38 based kernels or 2.6.29-rc1" [High,Fix released]
[09:19] <ppisati> amd here is the bug in ubuntu
[09:20] <ppisati> no wait, but that;s a different bug
[09:20] <MrCurious> we are talking different bugs :D
[09:20] <ppisati> yep
[09:20] <MrCurious> phew. thought the fix to my bug wasnt good
[09:20] <MrCurious> back to trying to build a kernel
[09:21] <ppisati> this one: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/pipermail/poky/2011-June/006649.html
[09:21] <ppisati> is about the missing usb devices on omap3/4 with gcc 4.6
[09:21] <MrCurious> i think i read somewhere that .0 GCC vers bring pain
[09:21] <MrCurious> and for some reason its being used
[09:21] <MrCurious> fall back to older gcc and be happy?
[09:22] <ppisati> 4.6 is the official toolchain for oneiric
[09:23] <brendand> is there any way to get higher than 640x480 on pandaboard?
[09:23] <ppisati> MrCurious: but you pointed me to the missing usb devices patch
[09:23] <ppisati> MrCurious: and you said prplplague tested the fix, and it was working
[09:24] <MrCurious> he tested it for performance on panda
[09:25] <MrCurious> i could see that fix causing usb issues
[09:28] <ppisati> MrCurious: i should ask him
[09:28] <ppisati> prpplague^2: ^
[09:31] <MrCurious> yes. i mean to ask him how i can get the image he built :D
[09:32] <hrw> brendand: you connected lcd to hdmi or dvi output?
[09:33] <brendand> hrw - it's the one labelled HDMI-1080p right next to usb/ether connectors
[09:36] <brendand> hrw - other one doesn't work
[09:36] <brendand> hrw - the cable i am using is hdmi to dvi though, my samsung monitor only has vga and dvi ports
[09:42] <hrw> thats fine
[09:42] <hrw> brendand: which kernel you run?
[09:42] <brendand> hrw - stock natty
[09:43] <brendand> 2.6.38-1208-omap4.11
[09:44] <hrw> linux-image-2.6.38-1208-omap4 2.6.38-1208.11
[09:44] <hrw> here
[09:44] <hrw> and my hdmi->dvi monitor gives 1680x1050
[09:45] <persia> Those are the same kernel: the differences in versions are because of how the versions were collected.
[09:45] <hrw> yep
[09:45] <brendand> persia - yep
[09:45] <brendand> i used uname -a
[09:45] <brendand> anyway
[09:46] <brendand> in 'monitors' i can't select anything but 640x480
[09:46] <brendand> and xrandr only reports that as well
[09:47] <hrw> so your monitor was not recognized
[09:47] <hrw> brendand: you have any graphics on screen?
[09:47] <brendand> hrw - absolutely
[09:48] <brendand> yeah, monitors says 'unknown'
[09:48] <brendand> whereas my laptop says 'Samsung 23"'
[09:49] <persia> If you attach the same screen to something else, can it parse EDID?
[09:52]  * brendand installs read-edid
[09:54] <brendand> hanging?
[09:54] <brendand> should it complete quickly? parse-edid that is
[09:54] <persia> It ought.
[09:55] <persia> `parse-edid < /sys/class/drm/${PORT}/edid` ?
[09:55] <brendand> okay
[09:56] <brendand> yeah, it can
[09:56] <brendand> hanging was obviously waiting for input
[09:57] <persia> OK, so you're getting good EDID, with the right resolution and name, etc?
[09:58] <MrCurious> GOSH but the CPU gets hot durring a kernel build
[09:58] <MrCurious> i now have NINE fingerprints!
[09:58] <persia> Um, putting one's finger on a CPU that has no heatsink is rarely a good idea.
[09:59] <MrCurious> yeah
[09:59] <MrCurious> they get hot. but they seldom glow
[09:59] <persia> OMAP4s don't get very hot, but many chips have thermal densities exceeding that of most nuclear reactor cores.
[09:59] <MrCurious> the gumstix cpu gets much hotter ALL the time
[09:59] <MrCurious> i have been debating tossing some passive heat sink on it
[10:01] <persia> Won't hurt (unless you cause physical damage in the process).  Not required for long-term system health.
[10:01] <brendand> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628319/
[10:01] <brendand> ARM chips are very much designed to run without one
[10:01] <persia> 2048x1152?  I thought you said 1680x1050
[10:02] <persia> brendand, That's not universally true: some designs run at sufficiently high clock speeds that they would melt.
[10:02] <hrw> persia: I said 1680x1050
[10:02] <persia> Your paste says 2048x1152
[10:03] <hrw> his paste - sorry for mess
[10:03]  * persia suffers from id3entity failure,. and decides to go wake up a bit more
[10:04] <brendand> problem is that's for the vga port
[10:04] <brendand> my laptop has no hdmi port, so can't attach a cable to that
[10:07] <persia> I *think* EDID info ought be the same regardless of the port used.
[10:10] <persia> You could try forcing resolution on the kernel command line.
[10:10] <brendand> how?
[10:11] <persia> I think it involves editing boot.scr and fiddling with u-boot.
[10:11] <persia> hrw, Do you know the specifics there?
[10:14] <hrw> nope, my monitors work with panda
[10:15] <ogra_> www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootargs_for_enabling_display ... look for hdmimode and hdmicode
[10:15] <persia> hrw, I meant about adjusting the command line:  I thought you might know uboot.
[10:16] <persia> ogra, Thanks!
[10:16] <ogra_> there is a wikipage about editing the cmdline in our wiki somewhere
[10:17] <ogra_> though just edit /boot/boot.script and run flash-kernel and reboot should be enough
[10:18] <hrw> persia: ah. adjusting is easy - cp /dev/mmcblk0p1/boot/boot.scr /boot/boot.script, vi /boot/boot.script, drop crap in front, edit, run flash-kernel
[10:19] <hrw> hdmimode/code are unknown for me
[10:19] <persia> hrw, Thanks.  Sorry for the confusion.
[10:19] <ogra_> hrw, why do you copy /boot/boot.scr to /boot/boot.script ?
[10:19] <hrw> ogra_: cause my system lacked it?
[10:19] <ogra_> on an ubuntu install they should always be identical
[10:20] <ogra_> despite the header indeed
[10:20] <ogra_> uh, why were you lacking it ?
[10:20] <persia> Some folk who run Ubuntu don't perform an Ubuntu install.
[10:20] <hrw> ogra_: iirc plain test one was added during natty cycle - my rootfs is quite old
[10:20] <ogra_> nah, that cant be :P
[10:21] <ogra_> the plain text boot.script exists since we support omap4
[10:21] <ogra_> so your install must be really old :)
[10:22] <hrw> ogra_: boot.script was part of kernel image?
[10:23] <hrw> 10:44 hrw@malenstwo:chromium-browser-12.0.742.91~r87961$ dpkg -S /boot/boot.script
[10:23] <brendand> in the middle of an update will try after that
[10:23] <hrw> dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /boot/boot.script.
[10:23] <ogra_> no, but part of the preinstalled image
[10:23] <zumbi> ogra_: I think boot.script was missing here too. My card reader is broken, cannot check properly.
[10:23] <hrw> ogra_: this rootfs was probably generated with linaro-media-create
[10:23] <ogra_> ah
[10:23] <zumbi> hrw: strings boot.scr > boot.script
[10:24] <hrw> zumbi: header has 'ubuntu boot script' in it iirc
[10:24] <zumbi> yep, capital U
[10:24] <zumbi> I thik i tried the headless image
[10:45] <ppisati> prpplague^2: did you really get an ubuntu kernel to work with gcc 4.6?
[10:49] <r3> hi guys.. is this the right place for asking some struct alignment (packed) questions how to solve in order to port a package x86->arm?
[10:52] <persia> r3, You can ask.  No promises that folks who know enough to answer are around at the moment.
[10:58] <r3> ok, thank you, i will try
[11:01] <r3> i found issues in coova-chilli which is working well in x86 but sometimes not in arm. issue is during a cast of a packed struct which contains generic fields to a in_addr struct, which is unaligned of course.  now i have a working workaround, but i try to understand if there's an easier solution, because with this workaround i need to check and fix every cast of every file. i'm no expert, so probably there's a simple compiler flag which fixes this (?) would be g
[11:01] <r3> reat that, would'nt it? :D
[11:02] <r3> here is a bit of code containing the wrong cast commented out and my workaround: http://pastebin.com/VgxRxzJn
[11:05] <r3> for more context: coova-chilli is a captive portal which during login asks a radius server for AA.. it is possible to assign (within radius) for each mac-address a static ip address which should be assigned then to that particular mac-address. we get this ip address by the radius response (that packed struct)
[11:08] <r3> if such a static ip address is set within radius database, i get it, but instead of getting <IP_ADDRESS> after the cast i have <IP_ADDRESS>.   digging in depth, i understood that packed struct does not add the alignment padding but the cast then jumps over 2 bytes of padding, because somehow it does not know that the source struct is packed
[11:09] <r3> now with that double cast (cast from packed to unaligned const struct to my in_addr struct) this problem is solved.  but do i really need to change this everywhere? is this normal procedure you need to do when you port software from x86 to arm?
[11:12] <zumbi> r3: maybe http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiFixes helps?
[11:17] <_r3_> zumbi: thank you! i'll take a look
[11:23] <_r3_> hmm, no this case is missing. but very interesting.. i need to check some of them too, since python for example on our platform is really slow. maybe because of wrong alignment
[12:00] <dmart> _r3_: This is really nothing to do with ARM -- the affected cast is invalid C for at least two reasons
[12:01] <dmart> _r3_: first, the code is type-punning, which is not allowed
[12:01] <dmart> _r3_: second, the code is casting without meeting the alignment requirements of the target type, which is not allowed either
[12:02] <dmart> Some arches (i.e. x86) are rather forgiving about this, but many are not
[12:07] <dmart> _r3_: the correct fix would be something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/628360/
[12:18] <_r3_> dmart: hmm.. i get it in correct byte order, since that is already converted in receive function.. but with wrong byte order instead of <IP_ADDRESS> i would get: <IP_ADDRESS> but not <IP_ADDRESS>.. that '6' comes from 2 bytes after the i field
[12:19] <_r3_> and well type-punning is needed since radius protocol is at it is .. i can't change that.. it is casting without meeting the alignment req. yes.   is there an easy way to make the compiler understand that?
[12:20] <_r3_> without doing the double cast i mean :)
[12:25] <lag> ogra: If I was a member of the public wanted to host my own ARM PPA, what would I have to do?
[12:26] <lag> ogra_: -^
[12:26] <ogra_> lag, talk to IS and convince them that only employees can upload
[12:26] <lag> ogra_: So they can't host an ARM PPA?
[12:26] <ogra_> or upload to a private arm ppa you only have access to and do a binary copy of the debs to a public one
[12:27] <lag> I don't mean for me
[12:27] <lag> I mean if I weren't an employee
[12:27] <ogra_> well, we dont have public PPAs until the cluster is in place
[12:27] <lag> I don't know what that means, what cluster?
[12:27] <ogra_> which will happen soon, but due to the fact that we could only fit 10 boards in it instead of 20, ppas might still take a while
[12:28] <ogra_> the panda build cluster
[12:28] <ogra_> currently arm PPAs are non virtualized
[12:28] <lag> So all ARM builds are completed on a Panda Board cluster currently?
[12:28] <ogra_> which means you can do very bad stuff if you have upload permission
[12:28] <ogra_> no, currently we have a bunch of babbage boards as build machines
[12:29] <ogra_> they are supposed to be replaced by a pandaboard cluster
[12:29] <ogra_> that cluster will have special tecnology to fake virtualization
[12:29] <lag> Right, but members of the public can't build on them?
[12:29] <ogra_> so we can make public PPAs available
[12:30] <ogra_> until thats in place there wont be any public PPAs for arm
[12:30] <lag> Okay, so what are the plans ETA?
[12:31] <ogra_> the first cluster should be in place within the next 7-10 days, its physically in the datacenter but hasnt been set up
[12:31] <ogra_> that one will likely only replace the existing build machines
[12:31] <lag> So the bottom line is, non-employees will be able to host their own ARM PPAs in the upcoming weeks?
[12:31] <ogra_> when the second cluster is ready (which will get us PPAs most likely) isnt predictable atm
[12:32] <lag> Okay, I guess that answers my question
[12:32] <lag> Thanks dude
[12:32] <ogra_> i would say ETA for public PPAs is likely not happening before P
[12:32] <ogra_> #probably earlier, but thats a matter of luck
[12:32] <lag> Right, thanks
[12:33]  * ogra_ would love to have it this cycle but life goes slower than planned wrt build machines
[12:36] <dmart> _r3_: did you try my code from pastebin?  By reading the adress from hisipattr without a type cast, the compiler shouldn't get confused
[12:49] <dmart> _r3_: ...though actually, your code is roughly equivalent.  However, casting from one packed structure type to another shouldn't be necessary.  If reading that field from struct radius_attr_t is giving wrong results, that suggests a compiler bug, but the compiler is not required to give sensible results if you cast a struct radius_attr_t * to in_addr_t * and deference the result
[12:50] <jeremiah> Well, the Natty image didn't want to boot either on the Panda A3
[12:50] <jeremiah> And this page: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Get_started_with_ubuntu_on_omap4
[12:50] <jeremiah> Appears to be out of date
[12:50] <dmart> lool: is there a common mailing list for Ubutntu arm developers?
[12:50] <persia> dmart, ubuntu-devel@
[12:50] <dmart> persia: thanks!
[12:51] <dmart> persia: was there previously a separate ubuntu-arm@, or am I mis-remembering?
[12:51] <persia> There never was.
[12:51] <dmart> fair enough
[12:51] <persia> Theoretically, everyone is supposed to care about all the architectures.
[12:51] <persia> In practice, this isn't actually true, but nobody is going to complain about some architecture-specific threads.
[12:52] <dmart> For reasons totally unrelated to this IRC thread, I was thinking of suggesting that everyone gets mroe proactive about getting rid of alignment faults in userspace apps
[12:52] <persia> On the other hand, it needs to stay relevant to Ubuntu: so "how to deal with porting issues" is interesting, as it helps us all solve FTBFS issues.  "Here's a new device" is less interesting, unless someone is doing the work to have that device supported in Ubuntu.
[12:52] <ogra> jeremiah, yes, rather use ubuntu docs to install ubuntu ;)
[12:52] <jeremiah> heh
[12:52] <jeremiah> Well, that would make sense. :)
[12:52] <persia> That's definitely applicable to ubuntu-devel@ : powerpc folk are just as prone to that sort of thing, so it's not even that arm-specific.
[12:53] <ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
[12:53] <ogra> try that :)
[12:53] <dmart> persia: ok, thanks
[12:53] <lag> hrw: Is our toolchain available for on Debian?
[12:53] <ogra> though it might be that we're missing bits for A3 borads
[12:53] <persia> lag, Debian uses a slightly different toolchain (although some of the same folk are contributing).
[12:54] <jeremiah> thanks ogra
[12:54] <lag> hrw: persia: I mean the Linaro toolchain
[12:54] <jeremiah> I hope we're not missing any A3 bits - but we'll soon find out. =)
[12:54] <ogra> yeah
[12:54] <persia> lag, So do I.
[12:55] <jeremiah> At UDS I saw a lot of Debian folks doing Linaro stuff. :)
[12:55] <lag> persia: Okay, thanks
[12:55] <persia> As "Ubuntu toolchain" and "Linaro toolchain" are essentially equivalent (if not, someone is slacking, or we're not all working on the same thing anymore)
[12:55] <jeremiah> Not as many as the Ubuntu folks, but still.
[12:57] <persia> jeremiah, I think the lines begin to blur in that area: given that both Debian and Ubuntu are community projects, and share lots of code, I think many people involved in the area end up working with both projects.
[13:06] <jeremiah> persia: I certainly have a hard time telling where one project begins and the other ends.
[13:06] <jeremiah> I mean, those who are paid by Canonical one can assume they spend a good deal of their time on Ubuntu
[13:07] <jeremiah> But, as Mark Shuttleworth says, every Ubuntu developer is a Debian Developer. :)
[13:07] <jeremiah> Although that might not be literally true.
[13:11] <lool> dmart: there was an ubuntu-mobile@ list but it's dead nowadays
[13:11] <lool> and I don't think it ever cared of ARM
[13:11] <ogra_> during the team transition phase probably
[13:11] <lool> but the people on the list were fairly overlapping with people caring about ARM  ;-)
[13:11] <persia> It didn't.  In it's latter days, it mostly consisted of apologies about lpia, and backporting efforts.
[13:12] <persia> No.  Lots of regulars on ubuntu-mobile@ left and did something different when it stopped being a focus, and more ARM stuff was happening.
[13:13] <persia> jeremiah, I believe the quote was the other way: that every Debian Developer is an Ubuntu Developer.
[13:13] <persia> I know of folk paid by Canonical who do all their work in Debian and none in Ubuntu.
[13:15] <persia> The boundary isn't really about individuals, as many folk participate in both, or about code, as much code is shared, but rather about the goals and output.
[13:15] <jeremiah> persia: Ah, you may be right. :)
[13:15] <jeremiah> about the shuttleworth quote, for sure
[13:16] <persia> Debian strives to generate a universal operating system.  Ubuntu strives to present a (limited) selection of the results of applying opinionated defaults to generate specific user experiences.
[13:18] <jeremiah> But Ubuntu also wants one to assign copyright to ubuntu, which is sometimes controversial.
[13:18] <persia> There's obviously overlap in those goals (and plenty of other goals which I've simplified away), but the answer in Debian is often "Let's enable users to do things how they wish, but sanely" and the answer in Ubuntu is often "Users should be doing things like this, so let's make sure that works very well."
[13:18] <persia> No.  Ubuntu has no interest in having copyright assigned.
[13:19] <persia> Canonical happens to provide some Ubuntu infrastructure, and also happens to sponsor some upstream projects that require copyright assignment, but that's not that relevant to Ubuntu.
[13:19] <persia> There's a number of cases where Ubuntu has patched Canonical software, but refused the copyright assignment, so the software in Ubuntu differs from that Canonical provides.
[13:19] <jeremiah> Really? I didn't know that. Interesting.
[13:20] <jeremiah> So there certainly is a degree of independence
[13:26] <hrw> lag: there are no cross compilers in Debian archive. If you want them then Emdebian guys have repositories with cross compilers.
[13:26] <lag> hrw: Can a Debian user use our binaries?
[13:27] <hrw> lag: Linaro gcc changes are part of Ubuntu gcc now. Debian uses same packaging as Ubuntu but iirc does not apply Linaro changes
[13:27] <ogra_> they might pull in unwanted deps
[13:27] <hrw> lag: no warranty that they will install but may work
[13:27] <ogra_> unimportant stuff like a different libc and such
[13:27] <lag> hrw: Great
[13:27] <lag> ogra: I'm sure they will live :)
[13:28] <ogra_> i wouldnt be that sure when mixing debian and ubuntu
[13:28] <ogra_> on a binary level at least
[13:29] <hrw> ogra_: both debian and ubuntu uses eglibc 2.13 now
[13:29] <ogra_> hrw, which release ? :P
[13:30] <ogra_> if someone run lenny they will surely not have a happy system after installing a natty toolchain (which pulls in the ubuntu libc)
[13:31] <persia> Debian and Ubuntu are not guaranteed to be binary compatible.  There isn't even any serious attempt made to be so, and most folk who push in that direction get strong push-back.
[13:31] <hrw> ogra_: testing
[13:31] <ogra_> and most often just fall over at some point
[13:31] <hrw> ogra_: I do not have to support Debian so I limit my Debian work to sid
[13:31] <persia> It's supposed to be *source* compatible (although that's slowly eroding for some categories, and several folk are working to get it back)
[13:31] <ogra_> mixing debian and ubuntu on a binary level is asking for trouble
[13:32] <_r3_> dmart: aaah now i got it. assign directly to s_addr! ..  i will try it, thank you!
[13:32] <persia> For ARM, it's raw madness: The ABIs are known to differ.
[13:32] <ogra_> right
[13:32] <ogra_> and there are the compiler defaults etc
[13:33] <persia> That's part of why the ABI differs :)
[13:33] <ogra_> well, beyond the obvious ABI difference between v5 and v7 :)
[13:33] <persia> Does that force an ABI difference?
[13:34] <persia> I thought that was just an ISA difference, but didn't actually affect exported symbols.
[13:34] <ogra_> no idea if -as-needed is ABI specific for example
[13:34] <persia> It's not.
[13:34] <ogra_> or -no-shrink-warp
[13:34] <persia> That's just a linker thing.
[13:34] <ogra_> etc
[13:35] <ogra_> i think we have a good bunch of non ABI related config diffs
[13:35] <persia> Oh, heaps.
[13:35] <persia> But the ABI differences are the reason it's not safe to mix binaries.
[14:36] <jeremiah> Hmm. I can't get the ubuntu-11.04-preinstalled-headless-armel+omap4.img.gz to boot past the kernl
[14:36] <jeremiah> kernel even
[14:36] <jeremiah> I'll try another version, like the netbook.
[14:36] <jeremiah> md5sum was correct anyway.
[14:36] <persia> What sort of error are you getting?
[14:37] <persia> I very much doubt that you'll get different behaviour from a different image in terms of intiial startup.
[14:37] <jeremiah> persia: It just says; "uncompressing kernel . . ."
[14:37] <jeremiah> No, I imagine its the same kernel for all of them most likely
[14:37] <ogra_> how long did you wait ...
[14:37] <jeremiah> ogra_: Not particularly long this time.
[14:37] <persia> It is, and the same bootloader, and the same set of code to launch the startup process.
[14:38] <ogra_> it takes a while until oem-config has parsed the debconf db before it shows the UI
[14:38] <jeremiah> But I'll check again, because I onlyl closed minicom
[14:38] <persia> ogra, Where "a while" is measured in minutes or tens of minutes?
[14:38] <ogra_> minutes
[14:39] <persia> Thought so: just wanted to set some bounds :)
[14:39] <jeremiah> I've just rebooted
[14:39] <jeremiah> It stops here: Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.
[14:39] <ogra_> right, give it a moment
[14:39] <jeremiah> okay :)
[14:39] <ogra_> debconf produces a lot of I/O
[14:40] <ogra_> Sd cards arent really great for that
[14:40] <jeremiah> What makes me nervous is that one of the leds has stopped and the other has goine into a steady blinking state
[14:40] <persia> Yeah :/
[14:40] <ogra_> which one blinks ?
[14:40] <persia> jeremiah: I think that's expected (or at least my panda usually only has one blinking light)
[14:41] <ogra_> the left one is heartbeat, it means the board is alive
[14:41] <jeremiah> ah, okay
[14:41] <ogra_> the right one (closer to the SD) is disk access
[14:41] <ogra_> if thats solid there is a lot IO
[14:41] <jeremiah> D1 was blinking (that is on my left) but has now stopped.
[14:42] <jeremiah> Now both have gone out.
[14:42] <ogra_> hrm
[14:42] <_r3_> dmart: yeah, that's working, thank you!   .. however.. i have to change every cast, that's always necessary i guess, is it?     i was searching for some neat compiler-flag or something easy which solves this, hehe .. but ok, probably the game really isn't played that way :)
[14:47] <jeremiah> Yeah. Definitely stuck, kernel won't boot.
[14:47] <jeremiah> I wonder if there are complications from the new u-boot?
[14:48] <jeremiah> I notice that on OMAPedia it talks about compiling u-boot with omap4430sdp_config
[14:49] <jeremiah> But it looks like the config has changed to omap_panda_config
[14:49] <jeremiah> But that is for u-boot, and it looks like we've gotten past the bootload by the time the "booting the kernel" message comes up
[14:50] <ogra_> omappedia has a lot outdated info
[14:50] <jeremiah> Yeah, you're right.
[14:50] <jeremiah> It does seem quite out of date
[14:51] <jeremiah> Sheesh. That page was last edited about six months ago.
[14:52] <jeremiah> Well, I'm compiling linaro-gcc here to see if I can't compile a kernel here.
[14:54] <ogra_> why are you compiling gcc ?
[14:54] <ogra_> dont you like the binary packages ? :)
[15:23] <ogra_> jeremiah, i just talked to TI, seems for the A3 panda we will need some patches to x-loader to make it work
[15:38] <prpplague^2> ppisati: i haven't booted ubuntu on pandaboard in atleast 3 months, much less compile with gcc-4.6, why do you ask?
[15:39] <ppisati> prpplague^2: becasue someone said you had usb devices in a ubuntu kernel compiled witg gcc 4.6
[15:39] <ppisati> prpplague^2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/791552
[15:39] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 791552 in linux "No USB support on beagle/beagleXM" [High,New]
[15:42] <prpplague^2> ppisati: i am guessing that is reference to this - https://lists.yoctoproject.org/pipermail/poky/2011-June/006649.html
[15:43] <prpplague^2> ppisati: i normally don;t any testing of ubuntu kernel/rootfs
[15:43] <ppisati> prpplague^2: yes, tried that and it didn't work and since someone said you had it working
[15:44] <ppisati> prpplague^2: i was asking
[15:44] <prpplague^2> ppisati: ahh, well i didn't try anything with an ubuntu kernel, or with gcc 4.6
[15:44] <prpplague^2> ppisati: np
[15:44] <ppisati> prpplague^2: ok
[15:44] <prpplague^2> ppisati: the problem also affects some performance issues on the EHCI
[15:45] <prpplague^2> ogra: uh what changes are they refering to ?
[15:45] <jeremiah> ogra_: Ah okay.
[15:46] <ogra_> prpplague^2, no idea, i need to ask sebjan
[15:47] <prpplague^2> ogra: there shouldn't be any changes to x-loader to support A3 boards
[15:48] <prpplague^2> ogra: i'll check on that when i get to the office
[15:48] <ogra_> prpplague^2, well, i was just told there are patches
[15:48] <prpplague^2> ogra_: hmm, sounds odd to me. i validated A3 boards with mainline x-loader and u-boot
[15:48] <prpplague^2> ogra_: i'll give you a ping when i get to the office
[15:49]  * prpplague^2 heads to the door
[15:49] <ogra_> k
[15:56] <ogra_> lilstevie, hehe
[15:56]  * ogra_ just saw the mail
[15:56] <lilstevie> ogra_: :)
[18:54] <garagoth> Hm, a question about kernel packaging, again.
[18:54] <garagoth> I have that 2.6.38-10 kernel I have compiled
[18:54] <garagoth> but kernel-headers-..-omap.deb required kernel-headers.deb
[18:54] <garagoth> how to generate it?
[18:58] <garagoth> hrw: Good to see you. A question, if I may...
[18:59] <garagoth> I have that 2.6.38-10 kernel I have compiled. There is linux-headers-2.6.38-10-omap_2.6.38-10.44_armel.deb package, but it depends on linux-headers-2.6.38-10 package. How to generate it?
[19:01] <garagoth> ...
[19:22] <garagoth> Ok, nwm, I managed to make it...
[20:15] <rsalveti> garagoth: I think you need to build binary-indep
[20:16] <rsalveti> or binary-headers
[20:23] <garagoth> binary-headers
[20:23] <garagoth> I spent a while reading debian/rules :-)
[20:23] <garagoth> And figured it out.
[20:23] <garagoth> But thanks for answer anyway.
[20:24] <garagoth> You guys on this channel are really helpfull.
[20:42] <rsalveti> awesome :-)
[20:42] <rsalveti> so you're good at ubuntu kernel pack hacking already :-)
[20:56] <garagoth> Eheheh. Good... no. Still green, but green as seasoned grass, not young one.
[22:13] <mcmx5> whats the best way to get XMBC up and running on my ubuntu pandaboard with working SGX?
[22:19] <hallyn> ogra_: hey, so i've been trying to use the dynabook over the last week just to check for any weird architecture gotchas.  The only thing that really stands out is, every 30 seconds or so, it freezes for 10 seconds.  (and the touchpad doesn't work at all, but touching the touchpad doesn't cause the freezes)  Known?


[12:31] <puppe> hallo.I'm using a AcerTravelMate6292 and dearly want to move over to Ubuntu. Unfortunately it don't seem to be supported, consulting this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[12:31] <puppe> How can I find out if/when it will be?
[12:31] <puppe> Thanks for your reply
[01:11] <ajmitch> puppe: the tested laptops there is certainly not a comprehensive list - there's a high chance that it'll just work
[01:12] <simira> puppe: you might as well try. And then maybe join the laptoptestingteam yourself? Then it might be better supported. ;)
[01:13] <Dj_Vic> hello all
[01:13] <ajmitch> hi simira
[01:13] <simira> hi ajmitch :)
[01:14] <puppe> simira: thanks for reply. I will certainly join. Unfortunately it wont work. Have already tried
[01:15] <puppe> gives me this after the splash screen Busy box .... (some text)
[01:15] <puppe> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
[01:15] <simira> puppe: well, it's just to start with reporting specifically WHAT doesn't work, then. :) Make sure it's not reported as a bug before, though
[01:16] <puppe> ok, will do
[01:17] <simira> you might find solutions by checking/contacting people who tests other models of Acer as well
[01:18] <ajmitch> that error message that you provided is rather generic, also - it generally follows some other error early in the boot process, like not finding the root filesystem
[01:22] <puppe> simira: ok. Checking https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam for their names. Or would you suggest some place better for getting in touch with them.
[01:23] <puppe> eh, mailing list perhaps :)I
[01:24] <simira> puppe: the mailinglist might not be very active. Use the wiki page, their emails should be given up there
[01:45] <puppe> simira: thanks will do.
[11:46] <saffi> Hi
[12:02] <saffi> Tried to boot live cd
[12:02] <saffi> used dv6000 hp laptop
[12:03] <saffi> the DVD is Samsung TS L632M
[12:04] <crimsun> "live cd" of which Ubuntu version?
[12:04] <crimsun> Tribe 1 desktop has known issues
[12:04] <crimsun> (Gutsy Tribe 1)
[12:05] <saffi> 7.04


[01:17] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: hey, I've been playing with the moodle interface, not created a course yet, but may be super useful
[01:18] <JoseeAntonioR> the big problem is that registration is not open
[01:44] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: opening it is easy once we have some courses
[01:44] <pleia2> don't want to open it yet though, spammers and junk accounts
[01:45] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, so let me know once we should start working, I'll get the docs from help.u.c
[01:46] <pleia2> whenever :) and I figure we just link to help.u.c documents (instruct people to print or save them as needed)
[01:46] <pleia2> in this process I figure we'll be doing a lot of helpful updating to help.u.c/community too
[01:46] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, sure
[01:47] <JoseeAntonioR> we can also have a script to get the print (text-only) version of the doc
[01:47] <JoseeAntonioR> but we'd need to figure out how images would work
[01:47] <pleia2> and if you feel overwhelmed by moodle, you're welcome to bypass it and just write classes that you release as .pdf or .odt or whatever, moodle is just an option
[01:47] <pleia2> moodle scares me :)
[01:48] <JoseeAntonioR> :P
[01:49] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, so I'll write it in .odts and then we can export it to pdfs
[01:49] <pleia2> yeah, that's what doctormo did
[01:50] <pleia2> ok, going to grab a snack and bring my laptop up to the roof (stuffy in here)
[01:50] <JoseeAntonioR> ok!
[01:59] <pleia2> much better :)
[01:59] <JoseeAntonioR> yay
[01:59] <JoseeAntonioR> it's cold over here
[02:00] <JoseeAntonioR> I still have the IRC and getting help docs I wrote in the plane in .txt files, I'll get them in .odts
[02:00] <pleia2> it's normal here (50s F)
[02:00] <pleia2> :)
[02:01] <JoseeAntonioR> about font and size, I'll use the Ubuntu font, is size 12 ok?
[02:01] <pleia2> sure
[02:02]  * pleia2 catches up on team reports she's been slacking on
[03:06] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: http://people.ubuntu.com/~joseeantonior/learning/IRC.pdf , can you please give it a quick look?
[03:08] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: I think what we want to do is link to the actual content on the wiki instead of rewriting it, and in our materials we write exercises for people to accomplish in class
[03:08] <pleia2> so like, first: go read this
[03:08] <pleia2> and "this" is a help.ubuntu.com page
[03:08] <pleia2> then: Now do these exercises
[03:08] <pleia2> we write the exercises
[03:09] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, gotcha
[03:09] <pleia2> so the exercises would be like "join #ubuntu-learning on freenode"
[03:09] <pleia2> and maybe we walk them through that specific task
[03:10] <pleia2> otherwise we really will end up rewriting everything :\
[03:10] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, that was before uds
[03:10] <pleia2> oh, and we'll want full links to things on pdfs in case people print them out for students :)
[03:10] <pleia2> no clicky clicky on paper, I've tried
[03:11] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe we can get a link shortener?
[03:11] <JoseeAntonioR> or use one that already exists
[03:11] <pleia2> nah, I think full links are the best
[03:11] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, full links then
[03:12] <pleia2> link shorteners have a habit of going down or being unreliable
[03:14] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, so we should have some IRC basics in h.u.c/community, I'll just link there and write the exercises later
[03:15] <pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[03:15] <pleia2> so we can improve that, if it needs improving
[03:19] <JoseeAntonioR> some docs over there are not updated, so we may need to update them too
[03:20] <pleia2> yep
[03:20] <pleia2> better to update those than write all our own
[03:27] <JoseeAntonioR> great, then


[13:04] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:01]  * mamarley is looking forward to Plasma 5.18 sooo much.  Mainly for the kwin compositor improvements, but also there are a ton of bugfixes and WPA3 is finally supported in plasma-nm.
 @IrcsomeBot, 👍🏻
 mamarley, what kwin improvement have you seen?
 I will build the 5.18 beta on Thursday
 @RikMills, Can’t wait for this build
[15:23] <mamarley> DarinMiller: I haven't actually used 5.18 yet, but the compositor was improved to use swap events instead of a timer, which will reduce or eliminate stuttering and reduce input lag!
[16:02] <mamarley> RikMills: And I certainly wasn't intending to rush you or anything.  I know you are prompt with these things and I greatly appreciate it. :)
[17:10] <BluesKaj> a user minimized ubiquity during an install, how to get it back?