[08:39] <tsdgeos> arg, that unity package still not released
[08:39] <tsdgeos> will un-update unity8
[08:41] <Saviq> tsdgeos, just grab unity-api from daily-ppa
[08:41] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and to answer your question - yes, today
[08:45] <didrocks> (for unity-api? yeah, it's targeted and Mirv is working on it as we speak)
[08:46] <Mirv> yeah, working on it, just some weird python problems because of which I'm reflashing fully
[08:47] <Mirv> ie. unity8 autopilot tests didn't start
[09:48] <sil2100> pete-woods: ping!
[09:50] <pete-woods> sil2100: hi
[09:52] <Saviq> that was a loud ping!
[09:53] <pete-woods> ;)
[10:38] <mhr3_> sil2100, so, any pattern to follow for the versioning issue you mentioned yesterday?
[10:44] <nic-doffay> Has anyone gotten this error with phablet-network on trusty before? Network connection file "uuid=1042ce84-5e70-4eea-b373-fe87b6b8b832" cannot be read
[10:46] <sil2100> mhr3_: hm, let me think about that for a moment!
[10:47] <mhr3_> saviq, is there a known battery issue with latest images? my phone never survives overnight lately
[10:48] <Saviq> mhr3_, I'd say mtp-server and mediascanner crashing all the time and apport collecting crashes
[10:49] <mhr3_> saviq, don't have either in /var/crash, though i do have powerd crash file... i have a feeling that's related
[10:50] <Saviq> mhr3_, right, if powerd crashed, it never went into suspend
[10:51] <mhr3_> still can't believe the entire thing boots just when charging it
[10:56] <mhr3_> sil2100, btw anything still missing to push unity-scopes-api
[10:56] <mhr3_> ?
[11:02] <Saviq> mzanetti, can you check what's going on with track durations in music previews? I get songs that are like 23hrs long
[11:03] <mzanetti> Saviq: hmm... strange. but yeah, I can check
[11:07] <nic-doffay> Saviq, who should I chat to about phablet-network issues?
[11:08] <Saviq> nic-doffay, Sergio
[11:08] <nic-doffay> Saviq, what chan?
[11:09] <sil2100> mhr3_: I'm pushing it today! As for the versioning schemes, how long do you plan on using this PPA for testing?
[11:09] <Saviq> nic-doffay, he's not around
[11:09] <Saviq> nic-doffay, best file a bug against phablet-tools
[11:09] <mhr3_> sil2100, couple of weeks i guess
[11:09] <mzanetti> Saviq: it works fine for all the sample data I have in use here
[11:10] <mzanetti> Saviq: the time is delivered from the scope backend
[11:10] <Saviq> nic-doffay, apport-bug phablet-tools
[11:10] <Saviq> mzanetti, let me print them ou
[11:10] <Saviq> t
[11:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, so it comes in as string?
[11:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, you're not processing it in any way?
[11:12] <mzanetti> Saviq: int
[11:13]  * Saviq adds debugging to scopes-shell
[11:13] <mzanetti> Saviq: I load it into a QTime with addSecs() and then use toString("hh:mm:ss")
[11:13] <Saviq> mzanetti, wonder if it comes in msecs from banshee or something
[11:13] <nic-doffay> Saviq, commented here: https://code.launchpad.net/~nicolas-doffay/unity8/category-transition-speed-fix/+merge/195203
[11:14] <mzanetti> Saviq: I populated it with some other music player. can't recall the name. mhr3 told me to
[11:14] <mzanetti> it wasn't banshee iirc
[11:15] <mhr3_> rb is the default
[11:15] <Saviq> rb == rhythmbox
[11:16] <mzanetti> ah right
[11:18] <mhr3_> so what's the issue?
[11:18] <mhr3_> banshee gives length in milliseconds?
[11:18] <mhr3_> sounds incredibly useful
[11:18] <mzanetti> :)
[11:19] <mhr3_> anyway, bug in scope
[11:19] <mzanetti> mhr3_: iirc mpris does stuff in milliseconds too
[11:26] <Saviq> mhr3_, looks like it
[11:26] <Saviq> 272514 is not a sane song length in seconds
[11:26] <Saviq> yeah, unity7 is broken there, too
[11:27] <Cimi> Saviq, mzanetti https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/dash-renderers/+merge/196285
[11:27] <Cimi> this doesn't fil here
[11:27] <Cimi> *fail
[11:27] <Saviq> Cimi, http://pad.lv/1255452
[11:27] <Cimi> ok
[11:28] <Cimi> Saviq, let me look at it
[11:28] <Saviq> Cimi, feel free
[11:28] <mzanetti> Cimi: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/dash-renderers/+merge/196285/comments/455645
[11:28] <Cimi> Saviq, yeah I got a bug on the indicagtors
[11:28] <Cimi> but I believe it's better for dednick
[11:30] <Cimi> mzanetti, I know you get launchpad karma but you can tell me directly when I'm online for those things :)
[11:30] <mzanetti> Cimi: :D
[11:31] <Cimi> mzanetti, fixed
[11:31] <mzanetti> Cimi: but how should I manage to catch Saviq then?
[11:31] <Cimi> mzanetti, you can go and do the real review now :P
[11:31] <mzanetti> :P
[11:31] <Cimi> mzanetti, creating a bot
[11:31] <Cimi> mzanetti, saviq has a bot
[11:31] <Cimi> mzanetti, he cannot be always the first one to track bugs, he must have one come on!
[11:32] <Cimi> :S
[11:32] <Cimi> :D
[11:32] <mzanetti> hehe
[11:32] <Cimi> unless Saviq is a bot
[11:32]  * Cimi mmmm ::D
[11:32] <Saviq> shh
[11:32] <Cimi> ahah
[11:33] <Saviq> mzanetti, mhr3_, davidcalle? bug #1255500
[11:34] <Saviq> FWIW it also includes songs that I have on my phone...
[11:34] <Saviq> which is kinda weird
[11:34] <mzanetti> Saviq: ah, so it happens in unity7 too?
[11:35] <Saviq> mzanetti, oh yes
[11:36] <Saviq> http://goo.gl/KKFLTl
[11:36] <mzanetti> meh...  Could not determine plugin installation dir.
[11:36] <mzanetti> :D
[11:36] <davidcalle> Saviq, Björk does have very long songs ;)
[11:36] <mzanetti> lol
[11:36] <Saviq> davidcalle, indeed!
[11:36] <Saviq> mzanetti, new unity-api
[11:36] <Saviq> mzanetti, it's in distro now
[11:37] <Saviq> mzanetti, ./build -c will pull it for you
[11:37] <mzanetti> nope... tried that. but probably I need to dist-upgrade first
[11:37] <davidcalle> Saviq, looking at it <- pstolowski, is it fine if I fix it in the preview creation instead of the db parsing ?
[11:38] <Saviq> davidcalle, please no
[11:38] <Saviq> davidcalle, unity8 would be broken still
[11:38] <mzanetti> how would that even work?
[11:38] <davidcalle> Saviq, I don't thing it would, I mean, the preview creation in the scope
[11:38] <mzanetti> guessing if it is too much by a factor of 1000?
[11:38] <Saviq> davidcalle, aah
[11:38] <davidcalle> think*
[11:39] <davidcalle> mzanetti, that would be fun :)
[11:39] <Saviq> davidcalle, in that case yeah, as long as unity-core spits out seconds, we're good
[11:39] <Saviq> mzanetti, crap, for https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/music-preview/+merge/193803 you need to add QtMultimedia to fake-env.install
[11:39] <pstolowski> Saviq, davidcalle yes, the problem is in the scope, it needs to do the conversion
[11:40] <mzanetti> Saviq: done
[11:40] <mhr3_> davidcalle, i don't follow, why do you want to fix it just in preview instead of db parsing?
[11:40] <mzanetti> Saviq: I just needed to merge with trunk as all the cmakelists have changed
[11:40] <Saviq> mzanetti, mhm
[11:41] <Saviq> davidcalle, what do you think should be done with songs from my phone?
[11:41] <Saviq> davidcalle, I think it caches it in the database
[11:42] <Saviq> davidcalle, that's why I have 3 copies of the same song there - one local (laptop), one remote (NAS), one on phone
[11:42] <Saviq> davidcalle, local+remote are added to the database as usual, so that's expected, but the phone one should be filtered I think - ideal would be unless it's connected :)
[11:44] <davidcalle> Saviq, interesting. Actually, I think the scope should deduplicate that itself all the time.
[11:44] <Saviq> davidcalle, or even that, yeah
[11:45] <davidcalle> mhr3_, nevermind, I found the db parsing bit for duration.
[11:46] <Saviq> nic-doffay, I'm afraid I don't get your reasoning re: transition speed, what "bouncing" do you have in mind?
[12:04] <karni> What is UNITY_RESULT_TYPE_PERSONAL and UNITY_RESULT_TYPE_SEMI_PERSONAL compared to UNITY_RESULT_TYPE_DEFAULT ?
[12:06] <Saviq> mhr3_, pstolowski ↑?
[12:06] <pstolowski> karni, DEFAULT = a public content
[12:07] <pstolowski> karni, PERSONAL = for results such as personal documents on your hdd
[12:07] <pstolowski> karni, SEMI_PERSONAL = re.g. esults coming from a personal clud afair
[12:08] <karni> pstolowski: I see, thank you!
[12:08] <pstolowski> karni, they affect sorting; personal content takes precedence over non-personal
[12:08] <karni> ACK
[12:09] <pstolowski> yw
[12:12] <mzanetti> Saviq: no... still can
[12:12] <mzanetti> 't find the plugin dir
[12:13] <Saviq> mzanetti, apt-cache policy libunity-api-dev ?
[12:13] <mzanetti> 7.80.3+13.10.20130927.1-0ubuntu1
[12:14] <mzanetti> hmm... that seems a bit old
[12:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, and 7.80.4 not available yet?
[12:14] <mzanetti> apparently not
[12:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, might not have reached your mirror yet
[12:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, or archive, for that matter
[12:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, grab it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-api/7.80.4+14.04.20131126.2-0ubuntu1
[12:14]  * mzanetti removes .de from sources lists
[12:16] <mzanetti> yep. better now
[12:18] <mzanetti> Cimi: your branch conflicts with trunk
[12:18] <Cimi> again :\
[12:18] <Cimi> ok
[12:18] <Cimi> I fixed it the other day
[12:18] <Cimi> I'll fix it
[12:33] <Cimi> mzanetti, no conflicts here
[12:33] <Cimi> mzanetti, just merged and repushed
[12:34] <davidcalle> pstolowski, can you please have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/unity-lens-music/banshee-track-duration-seconds/+merge/196879 ?
[12:34] <mzanetti> Cimi: ok. works now
[12:34] <mzanetti> Cimi: did we come to a conclusion on what we should use to tag those bugs you mentioned yesterday?
[12:35] <mzanetti> Cimi: hmm... now the local videos isn't a carousel any more. is that wanted?
[12:36] <Cimi> mzanetti, how many videos you have?
[12:36] <mzanetti> huh? now it turned into a carousel after wating for a couple of seconds
[12:46] <nic-doffay> Saviq, whoa only saw your response now.
[12:46] <nic-doffay> Saviq, the "bounce" I'm talking about is basically a noticeble delay between the animation and it's end.
[12:47] <nic-doffay> in the "to:" the FilterGrid's height is set to the scopeViewHeight, then onStopped it's set to either uncollapsed or collapsed height.
[12:48] <nic-doffay> It's between these two that you can see that issue, which was why I did it the way I currently am. But unfortunately that causes the speed variation between the collapsing and expansion now. I'm unsure how to get around this.
[12:49] <Saviq> nic-doffay, ok, let's start from the beginning, say a category is at y=100, scopeViewHeight=500, uncollapsedHeight=1000
[12:49] <Saviq> nic-doffay, first step is animation to height=500, second step is setting height=1000
[12:50] <nic-doffay> Saviq, yeah that's fine.
[12:50] <nic-doffay> It's when the uncollapsed height is less than the scopeViewHeight that the issue happens.
[12:51] <Saviq> nic-doffay, ok, so say y=400, scopeViewHeight=500, uncollapsedHeight=400
[12:51] <Saviq> nic-doffay, there's only one step there, then, animate to height=400
[12:51] <Saviq> nic-doffay, and y gets animated to y=100 at the same time
[12:51] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I tried that already I think let me just refresh my memory quickly...
[12:52] <Saviq> nic-doffay, as long as the y and height animations are in sync, which they should be, I see no reason for bouncing
[12:52] <Saviq> nic-doffay, I think your issue was with the fact that you animate to height=500 in that case, and then re-set to 400
[12:53] <Cimi> mzanetti, it loads the carousel with more than 6 elements
[12:53] <Saviq> nic-doffay, but then you solved that already I think
[12:53] <Cimi> mzanetti, otherwise it shows the grid
[12:55] <mzanetti> Cimi: yeah. I was just confused as I knew I had more of them and it still was grid. and suddenly it turned into a carousel
[12:57] <nic-doffay> Saviq, in that case it could be an issue with the root.y I haven't taken into account any y positioning because the root.y of the filter grid always printed 0.
[12:57] <mzanetti> Cimi: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/dash-renderers/+merge/196285/comments/455703
[12:58] <Saviq> nic-doffay, that's because it's wrapped by a Loader, in which it's always at 0
[12:58] <mhr3_> sil2100, ping?
[12:59] <Saviq> nic-doffay, and anyway y in a Flickable won't help you, unless you take contentY and originY into account, at which point it starts to be better if you just use mapToItem / mapFromItem
[12:59] <mhr3_> sil2100, finished thinking about the pattern yet?
[13:00] <nic-doffay> Saviq, would you recommend using mapToItem?
[13:00] <sil2100> mhr3_: yeah ;p Basically it's really hard to do, as the daily-release pattern is well, daily-dated - so best choice would be to simply put a +2 weeks date with a ~ on it
[13:00] <sil2100> mhr3_: I published unity-scopes-api btw.
[13:00] <Saviq> nic-doffay, as long as you can get to the item you want to map to
[13:01] <nic-doffay> Saviq, here's the simplified code which has a "bounce" but fixes the speed issue. I can't help but think there must be some other way around this. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6484230/
[13:02] <mhr3_> sil2100, hm, then i'll just increment the micro version and have it incremented in trunk unity when we merge it
[13:02] <Saviq> nic-doffay, can you record the bounce you mention? kazam is relatively good at it - make sure to set a high framerate and only record the window
[13:02] <nic-doffay> Saviq, yeah sure.
[13:03] <bregma> Saviq, do you know where I should start looking if I want to run Unity8 fullscreen on my desktop?
[13:04] <sil2100> mhr3_: is that feasible? Since you would have to have permission from the unity8 guys
[13:04] <sil2100> mhr3_: since yes, a micro bump and ~ is the way to go, but I didn't think you wanted to release a new upstream version bump
[13:05] <Saviq> bregma, if you mean to have a tablet-like session, it's still impossible to run unity8@Mir outside of android I'm afraid
[13:05] <Saviq> bregma, bug #1246851 and bug #1246850 were last things I filed last I tried
[13:05] <mhr3_> sil2100, well, i want the ppa to upgrade distro if you use it
[13:06] <mhr3_> upgrade distro version of unity8 that is
[13:06] <bregma> Saviq, I can run it as a phone in an X11 session on the desktop (default QPA) but I'd like to go to tablet mode, is there a simple way?
[13:07] <Saviq> bregma, -fullscreen
[13:07] <Saviq> bregma, or just resize the window, for that matter
[13:07] <bregma> resising windows doesn;t work when Unity8 is the window manager
[13:07] <bregma> I'll try -fullscreen
[13:07] <Saviq> bregma, yeah, then -fullscreen
[13:07] <Saviq> bregma, you also want -mousetouch
[13:07] <Saviq> bregma, to convert mouse events to touch ones
[13:07] <bregma> a --help option would be nice
[13:08] <Saviq> bregma, indeed
[13:08] <Saviq> bregma, ./run -h has some
[13:08] <Saviq> bregma, but yeah, we need a -h for unity8 itself
[13:08] <bregma> I want mouse and touch events, since this is a desktop session, can I get both?
[13:08] <Saviq> bregma, depends if you want to distinguish between them
[13:09] <Saviq> bregma, actually even Qt thinks of merging the two, although that's some time away
[13:09] <Saviq> bregma, -mousetouch will convert mouse events to touch for the shell, and leave touch ones be
[13:10] <Saviq> bregma, so everything should work as expected, using both pointer and touch interaction
[13:15] <bregma> Saviq, -fullscreen still looks like a phone, do I need to install additional packages or use a PPA (this is Trusty)?
[13:17] <Saviq> bregma, no
[13:17] <bregma> :(
[13:18] <Saviq> bregma, unity8 -fullscreen starts, correctly, full-screen here
[13:18] <Saviq> bregma, wonder if that requires a window manager...
[13:18] <bregma> sounds like
[13:18] <Saviq> bregma, it just calls showFullscreen() instead of just show() on the QQuickView
[13:19] <Saviq> bregma, so http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtgui/qwindow.html#showFullScreen
[13:19]  * bregma starts digging
[13:20] <bregma> I think I have my work cut out for me
[13:23] <mhr3_> saviq, i mentioned yesterday that if there's no home.scope you can't switch between scope pages... been searching where does that get enabled/disabled but can't find it, any pointers?
[13:23] <Saviq> mhr3_, it doesn't really get enabled/disabled
[13:23] <Saviq> mhr3_, I'm not sure what's happening, TBH
[13:23] <Saviq> mhr3_, let me try
[13:24] <mhr3_> oh :/
[13:24] <Saviq> mhr3_, there's nothing special about home.scope other than it switches to it on startup
[13:26] <Saviq> aaaah crap, autoremoved libc ;(
[13:26] <mhr3_> who needs that anyway :)
[13:28] <mhr3_> saviq, hm, ok tried that with regular scopes and not having home.scope works fine, must be something in the new model then
[13:28] <Saviq> mhr3_, no rowCount updates or something?
[13:29] <Saviq> mhr3_, see if onCountChanged is kicked on the dash ListView
[13:29]  * Saviq reboots and tries to bring back libc
[13:29] <mhr3_> k
[13:36] <Saviq> ohkay, that worked... uff
[13:36] <mzanetti> Cimi: did you see the comment I left here? https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/fix-1214423/+merge/192868
[13:41] <Cimi> mzanetti, yeah but I'm waiting to see if we have to work on the sdk or not
[13:59] <MacSlow> Is there a way to "walk" a QMenuModel in QML to extract only one specific attribute (type)?
[14:05] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I personally think this is acceptable for the time being: https://code.launchpad.net/~nicolas-doffay/unity8/category-transition-speed-fix/+merge/195203
[14:05] <nic-doffay> It's the only way using this method that works ok.
[14:06] <nic-doffay> I updated it a bit.
[14:08] <Saviq> nic-doffay, not unless we understand what the issue is
[14:09] <Saviq> nic-doffay, and I, for one, don't
[14:11] <nic-doffay> Saviq, that branch essentially does what you mentioned earlier.
[14:11] <nic-doffay> To remove the bounce it animates to uncollapsed or collapsed.
[14:12] <nic-doffay> if they are smaller than the scopeViewHeight.
[14:12] <nic-doffay> The onStopped logic is only called if the root.height is at scopeViewHeight.
[14:13] <Saviq> nic-doffay, so why the different speed?
[14:14] <nic-doffay> Saviq, the speed variation only occurs on big lists with small uncollapsed heights.
[14:14] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I think it's that way round...
[14:15] <Saviq> nic-doffay, big lists with small uncollapsed heights? that sounds oxymoronic
[14:15] <Saviq> nic-doffay, list "size" should be proportional to its height, no?
[14:16] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I'll try explain it better.
[14:20] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I'm actually not sure about the speed variation on further thought.
[14:20] <nic-doffay> What causes it at least.
[14:21] <Saviq> nic-doffay, just do onHeightChanged: console.log(height)
[14:21] <Saviq> nic-doffay, and see if it changes as you would expect it to
[14:21] <Saviq> nic-doffay, i.e. no animation between [uncollapsedHeight, scopeHeight]
[14:22] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I have the figures look fine either way.
[14:22] <nic-doffay> Which is what is confusing me.
[14:23] <nic-doffay> Saviq, wait perhaps not.
[14:23] <nic-doffay> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6484517/
[14:23] <nic-doffay> Would that extra 200 cause a speed difference?
[14:24] <Cimi> who wrote tst_Dash.qml?
[14:25] <nic-doffay> Saviq, nm they both begin and end at 700 like I thought, I just put spaced in the incorrect number. So back to the beginning, I'm clueless about the speed issue.
[14:25] <nic-doffay> It only occurs when collapsing large grids.
[14:25] <nic-doffay> I'll try look into it more.
[14:25] <Saviq> Cimi, bzr blame doesn't help?
[14:26] <Saviq> nic-doffay, sure, extra 200 could cause a speed difference, especially when easing's involved
[14:26] <Cimi> Saviq, many people
[14:27] <Saviq> Cimi, here's your answer ;)
[14:27] <Cimi> but last one is tsdgeos !
[14:27] <Cimi> I love blaming him
[14:27] <Cimi> tsdgeos, hey dude :P
[14:27] <tsdgeos> hi
[14:28] <tsdgeos> i tried to fix that test a while ago
[14:28] <tsdgeos> can't find how it fails tbh
[14:28] <tsdgeos> we're speaking about the showdash thing, no?
[14:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1255452
[14:29] <tsdgeos> yes
[14:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, few things are weird
[14:29] <tsdgeos> what's with it?
[14:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, dunno why dednick added the verify (dashcontentist != undefined)
[14:30] <Cimi> at almost the end of the file
[14:30] <Saviq> nic-doffay, standup
[14:31] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I believe this is failing because 5000ms of try compare are not enough
[14:31] <Cimi> Saviq, ^
[14:32] <Saviq> Cimi, the third argument is timeout
[14:32] <Cimi> Saviq, yep I know
[14:33] <Cimi> Saviq, can I increase it or mzanetti will kill me?
[14:33] <Saviq> Cimi, why would he?
[14:33] <Cimi> Saviq, time spent...
[14:33] <Cimi> Saviq, I could double it and see what happens
[14:33] <Saviq> Cimi, it's not your fault, is it
[14:33] <Cimi> we could put 10000
[14:33] <mzanetti> I guess in this case its ok
[14:38] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I think it's because there's no easing when it gets set on Stopped.
[14:39] <nic-doffay> That's my guess.
[14:39] <nic-doffay> at least.
[14:39] <tsdgeos> Cimi: but that's not where it fails, no?
[14:39] <nic-doffay> Saviq, here are better written out figures: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6484612/
[14:40] <Saviq> nic-doffay, those figures show that it animates between uncollapsed height and scope view height, then jumps to collapsed height
[14:40] <Saviq> nic-doffay, the opposite should happen
[14:41] <Cimi> tsdgeos, it is
[14:41] <Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/fix-1255452/+merge/196913
[14:41] <Cimi> let's see what jenkins has to say
[14:41] <Saviq> nic-doffay, it should go 200 ... 542 → 752, but 752 → 542 ... 200
[14:41] <Saviq> nic-doffay, where ... is animated, → is not
[14:43] <nic-doffay> Saviq, yeah I see now. Good observation.
[14:43] <tsdgeos> Cimi: you'll have to run it lots of times to make sure it's not just a lucky run
[14:43] <Cimi> tsdgeos, sometimes jenkins fails at 5s
[14:44] <Cimi> tsdgeos, so I put 10s
[14:44] <mhr3_> saviq, ok finally figured it out, the currentItem on the scopes listview remains null for some reason (yet it's displaying the first scope)
[14:45] <mhr3_> and that screws up the interactive prop on the listview
[14:45] <Saviq> mhr3_, right, interesting
[14:45] <mhr3_> saviq, why would it stay null though?
[14:45] <nic-doffay> Saviq, ah right I recall now why I changed that. It was due to a small grid.
[14:46] <nic-doffay> That was smaller than the scopeViewHeight, I think a check for that should sort it out though.
[14:46] <Saviq> mhr3_, good question, it shouldn't - ListView selects the first item by default as soon as it comes in
[14:48] <mhr3_> which means that we set it to null/-1
[14:49] <Saviq> mhr3_, check onCurrentIndexChanged
[14:50] <Saviq> mhr3_, and see if setCurrentScopeAtIndex is called at all (it shouldn't)
[15:04] <mhr3_> saviq, looks like that if you have an empty model and give it to listview and then populate it, currentIndex/Item stays -1
[15:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that's not what you found is it ↑?
[15:05] <Saviq> mhr3_, tsdgeos found code that would actively choose the first item in the model and focus it when added
[15:05] <Saviq> mhr3_, we have a workaround for that in notifications
[15:05] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[15:05] <tsdgeos> don't remember tbh
[15:05] <tsdgeos> but i think not
[15:05] <tsdgeos> also i could never reproduce the notifications thing in a small testcase
[15:06] <Saviq> tsdgeos, remember the notifications? it was stealing focus when the model was empty and a notification was added
[15:06] <tsdgeos> so it seems there's some other weird interaction going on somewhere
[15:06] <tsdgeos> yes yes
[15:06] <tsdgeos> i remember that
[15:06] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and that wasn't related to setting currentIndex?
[15:06] <tsdgeos> i mean i don't remember if it's the same as mhr3 says
[15:06] <tsdgeos> it was
[15:06] <tsdgeos> but can't say if it's what's causing that or not
[15:07] <tsdgeos> when we have more time someone should try to produce a simpler testcase for the notifications thing
[15:07] <Saviq> tsdgeos, oh no it shouldn't be, it's what should be solving it ;D
[15:07] <tsdgeos> because it did not happen in a simple testcase
[15:07] <tsdgeos> so isntead of the real fix we did the workaround
[15:07] <Saviq> mhr3_, either way, just do onCountChanged: if (currentIndex [15:07] <mhr3_> saviq, did http://paste.ubuntu.com/6484755/
[15:07] <Saviq> mhr3_, + { }
[15:08] <Saviq> mhr3_, but yeah
[15:08] <mhr3_> but but, it wasn't there :P
[15:08] <Saviq> mhr3_, currentIndex < 0, is it not -1 always?
[15:08] <Saviq> mhr3_, if not >= 0 ?
[15:09] <Saviq> mhr3_, either way, +1
[15:09] <mhr3_> saviq, probably, but noone likes ones, zeros are nicer :)
[15:09] <Saviq> mhr3_, that can go to lp:unity8 directly, too
[15:10] <mhr3_> k proposing
[15:10] <Saviq> mhr3_, FWIW some of the tests would show that issue I expect
[15:10] <Saviq> as we're waiting for Home to be selected on startup
[15:11] <Saviq> mhr3_, or maybe we could use a test that does that
[15:11] <Saviq> mhr3_, supply an empty scopes model
[15:11] <Saviq> mhr3_, and adds one then, checks that the first one is selected
[15:11] <mhr3_> saviq, something's weird with the scopes model, it seems like it's always loaded, and always populated
[15:12] <Saviq> mhr3_, our qml tests operate on mock models, so should be easy to add a test like that
[15:12] <mhr3_> right
[15:20] <mzanetti> Saviq: "Aborted by Micha? Sawicz" ?
[15:20] <Saviq> mzanetti, dependency deadlock
[15:20] <mzanetti> ah
[15:23] <Saviq> mzanetti, and aborted because of bug #1253198
[15:54] <Saviq> mzanetti, confirm bug #1255578 for me please?
[15:55]  * mzanetti reads
[15:56] <Saviq> mzanetti, another example of a job failed because of that https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/unity8-trusty-amd64-autolanding/164/console
[16:10] <tsdgeos> Saviq: should https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1252736 be invalid in unity8?
[16:11] <Saviq> tsdgeos, done
[16:14] <alesage> Saviq, that indicator-stubs MP appears ready: https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/unity8/indicator-stubs/+merge/192059 (in spite of a spurious failure or two)
[16:15] <Saviq> alesage, ok I'll check it out
[16:15] <alesage> Saviq, thank you sir
[16:16] <Saviq> alesage, does it check against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bug/1253804 regressing?
[16:16] <Saviq> alesage, like we talked yesterday?
[16:16] <alesage> Saviq, made a note in that bug, a separate branch is in the works, need the stubs regardless
[16:16] <Saviq> alesage, ah good
[16:16]  * Saviq is not getting comments on bugs by default, not sure if that's good or bad
[16:18] <alesage> Saviq, more mail is always good
[16:18] <Saviq> alesage, ;)
[16:48] <tsdgeos> Saviq: confirmed the qfatal
[16:48] <tsdgeos> now i need to investigate what's wrong
[16:48] <tsdgeos> qt, the code or the test
[16:49] <untitled1> hello Saviq  I do not know if you remember talking to me a couple days ago mainly about filters in the dash ?  But I have set up a framework to have different views (widgets) for each of the filter-whatevers   I was wondering what you think ago this approach and if you have any other ideas.  Here is a paste of the Loader that is run and the Binding that is past to the Item, http://pastebin.com/YyLSkdix      thanks I know that y
[16:52] <mhr3> saviq, grrrrrr!
[16:52] <untitled1> maybe I should just name the files (widgets) for each of the views to be the rendererName that is passed  via scopes model ? and have the source so that it is  filterRenderName + ".qml"
[16:53] <mhr3> saviq, so it turns out that if i use beingResetModel + endResetModel, the property getting is scheduled in a different way and things break
[16:54] <mhr3> if i do beginInsertRows + end, it seems like something gets queued (inside ListView), and things work
[16:54] <untitled1> maybe also rename things  like "options" to FilterModel stuff like that.  in the Binding that is.
[16:55] <tsdgeos> Saviq: my guess? the test only worked because we did not compile with debug so asserts where never triggered :D
[16:55] <tsdgeos> s/where/were
[16:55] <tsdgeos> because both the ui toolkit and the qt code is quite old
[16:59] <Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/carousel-shader/+merge/196942
[17:00] <nic-doffay> Saviq, I can't figure out a good looking enough solution for that without more drastic changes. The problematic part is the uncollapsed -> scopeViewHeight -> animate to collapsed.
[18:02] <untitled1> I do not think that scope.cpp/h are working right in Unity 0.1 plugin.  I can not set the QString to a different one other then "phone" for the formFactor Q_PROPERTY. I am doing a simple test on Shell.qml width and onWidthChanged I have a function to look at the width and change formFactors bye this. but there not changing ....
[18:08] <untitled1> Heere is a simple example of trying to change the formFacor http://pastebin.com/Aur5t2Ey
[18:11] <Saviq> untitled1, that formFactor property is unity8's responsibility, to be consumed by the scopes, not the other way round
[18:12] <Saviq> untitled1, the filterLoader looks more or less sane, there's no need for the wrapping Item, though
[18:13] <Saviq> untitled1, there's switch/case that could be used instead of the if/else
[18:15] <Saviq> untitled1, also, we generally abstract the mapper out - see ScopeDelegateMapper for example
[18:15] <Saviq> untitled1, it gets nice and clean then
[18:15] <Saviq> mhr3, "property getting" meaning calls to data() or?
[18:21] <untitled1> Saviq:  thanks I was able to clean it up some and it is working now
[18:22] <Saviq> untitled1, cool
[18:22] <untitled1> I had to make the Element then was able to set not in a property
[18:23] <untitled1> but then it is not wide.  like it is different in other files PageHeader.qml for example
[18:23] <untitled1> when there is a property Scope scope that is .
[18:24] <untitled1> example http://pastebin.com/XZcJe6U2
[18:27] <untitled1> just laying around with stuff to get to know the plugins and what not.  thanks for your help
[18:27] <untitled1> playing *
[18:36] <Saviq> untitled1, the scope.formFactor really isn't something you should be setting
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, it's just passed to the scopes so that they modify their behavior accordingly
[18:37] <untitled1> yeah I am looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/unity-mir/trunk/view/head:/src/modules/Unity/Application/mirsurface.h
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, not needed either
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, what are you after?
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, if you want a bigger window - just resize it
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, or ./run -- -fullscreen
[18:37] <seb128> Cimi, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10/+merge/196920 this week?
[18:37] <Saviq> untitled1, everything will adapt
[18:38] <untitled1> and upgrading to trusty to see if I can get mir running inn this machine.  As far as what I am after.  I m just playing around with the libs. just to learn them.
[18:38] <untitled1> Saviq:  but it would be cool to have other formfactors that the shell can adapt to.
[18:39] <Saviq> untitled1, it shouldn't need to adapt at all
[18:39] <Saviq> untitled1, it should just work
[18:40] <Saviq> untitled1, unity8 on Mir won't work outside of android as of now
[18:40] <untitled1> Saviq:  what do you mean. I am a little lost.  Like if it was Desktop formfactor.  then there would have to be a look and feel that is different or am I wrong ?
[18:40] <Saviq> untitled1, there's a few issues we need to flesh out still
[18:40] <Saviq> untitled1, no, the look and feel should be the same everywhere
[18:40] <Saviq> untitled1, with as little exceptions as possible
[18:41] <Saviq> untitled1, we just want it to be... Unity ;)
[18:41] <Saviq> untitled1, converged
[18:42] <Saviq> untitled1, and even for the exceptions - we should avoid the phone vs. desktop vs. tablet vs. tv vs. whatever
[18:42] <untitled1> Saviq:  like some of the models would be different ?  like for applications and what not ? like things that run off X or need X.  that is where I am also lost as to how these applications will run on Mir.  maybe they are cross platform ?
[18:42] <Saviq> untitled1, as what is a tablet with a bluetooth keyboard and a mouse
[18:42] <Saviq> untitled1, everything will run under Mir, yes - natively where the toolkits / apps support it, and through rootless X for legacy
[18:43] <Saviq> untitled1, what kind of models do you have in mind?
[18:43] <Saviq> untitled1, the differences between form factors are blurry already, and will get even more so
[18:43] <untitled1> Like ones that can read say /usr/share/applications  stuff like that so that all the apps show up in the apps lens
[18:44] <Saviq> untitled1, like what's the difference between a 5" phone and a 5" tablet
[18:44] <Saviq> untitled1, they all will, ultimately, as they all will work
[18:44] <untitled1> yeah will have to look at the device somehow
[18:44] <Saviq> untitled1, no, you won't :)
[18:44] <Saviq> untitled1, why would you want it to be different?
[18:44] <untitled1> serial numbers or something like that IDK that is above my knowledge.
[18:45] <Saviq> untitled1, no that's fine, we could - but why
[18:45] <Saviq> untitled1, why would you want them to behave differently
[18:45] <Saviq> untitled1, sure, there's no GSM, so you'd disable that part of the experience
[18:45] <untitled1> Saviq:  so I can run unity8 on my desktop with say mutter or some other manager ATM.  not in the long run so to say but just for now.
[18:46] <untitled1> maybe I could change the application scope that is working on the unity8 branch that I have been playing around with.
[18:46] <Saviq> untitled1, you'll be able to run it natively on your desktop by 14.04
[18:46] <untitled1> that is nice :)
[18:47] <Saviq> untitled1, it will be a tablet-like experience, but unity8 is not meant to be run with different window managers
[18:47] <Saviq> untitled1, there is some effort to make the unity8 dash a standalone app, fwiw
[18:47] <untitled1> wheres  the fun in that j/k :P
[18:47] <Saviq> aanyway
[18:47] <Saviq> time to get up
[18:47] <Saviq> gotta go o.
[18:48] <Saviq> o/
[18:48] <untitled1> Yeah that is what I am using it as atm is a standalone app
[18:48] <untitled1> have a good one thanks again for the help.
[19:28] <Cimi> seb128, will do
[19:28] <Cimi> tomo
[19:36] <Saviq> Cimi, don't re-approve stuff, it won't merge I'm afraid, we need to wait for Mir 0.1.2 to get released
[19:36] <Cimi> Saviq, didn't know
[19:36] <Saviq> Cimi, no worries
[20:51] <Saviq> alesage, small nitpick https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/unity8/indicator-stubs/+merge/192059/comments/455962
[20:51] <alesage> Saviq, will update
[21:02] <alesage> Saviq, updated.  these compiles are murder :)
[21:03] <Saviq> alesage, hmm?
[21:03] <alesage> Saviq, just complaining about the wait
[21:03] <alesage> (to compile unity8)
[21:03] <Saviq> alesage, on device?
[21:03] <alesage> Saviq, yes
[21:03] <Saviq> alesage, were you building packages or?
[21:04] <alesage> Saviq, yes, seems cleanest
[21:04] <Saviq> alesage, I got sbuild + ccache for that on my manta
[21:04] <alesage> Saviq, will investigate thx
[21:05] <Saviq> alesage, not that it makes it *fast*, just *faster* ;)
[21:05] <Saviq> alesage, we'll be able to cross-build soon, though
[21:05] <Saviq> alesage, we already are, but still with some tricks
[21:05] <alesage> Saviq, o that's good news, hadn't heard
[21:05] <Saviq> alesage, it should be as easy as `sbuild --host=armhf` soon
[21:06] <alesage> nifty
[21:09] <Saviq> veebers, on that note - if you tried my sbuild scripts, I forgot to add DEBOOTSTRAP_INCLUDE=ccache to mk-sbuild.rc
[21:09] <Saviq> veebers, which means you have to install it manually in the chroot
[21:10] <veebers> Saviq: sweet cheers. I'll be checking that out today
[21:10] <Saviq> veebers, if you haven't yet - just add that ↑↑ to .mk-sbuild.rc on your device
[21:11] <veebers> Saviq: sweetbix, will do
[23:19] <alesage> Saviq, FYI https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/unity8/autopilot-indicator-page-title-matches-widget/+merge/196991 , need some reviews and advice but on its way :)
[23:24] <Saviq> alesage, cool
[23:25] <Saviq> alesage, dednick's on holiday until the week after next, so I'll try and advise
[23:25] <alesage> Saviq, o didn't realize, thanks


[12:29] <phillip> sasa84_: hi
[13:53] <sasa84_> hello phillip
[13:54] <sasa84_> i have one question. according to language stats http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid/sl we still have 1 string to translate, but  we translated all (https://translations.launchpad.net/sudoku-app/trunk/+pots/sudoku-app/sl/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all)
[13:54] <sasa84_> is this a bug or something?
[13:58] <phillip> sasa84_: yes
[14:00] <sasa84_> ok, tnx phillip
[14:02] <phillip> sasa84_: I have made a script to check translations via bash: https://github.com/PhillipSz/translationcheck just run ./translationcheck.bash -ul "Slovenian" to see whats left for slovenian.
[14:14] <sasa84_> wow, great! tnx
[14:15] <phillip> sasa84_: tell me if you have problems or something :)
[14:15] <sasa84_> yes sir! :)


[12:00] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[12:01] <fabbione> doko: do i need to rebuild also gcj-4.1 to test? or gcc is enough?
[12:01] <doko> fabbione: what do you want to test?
[12:02] <fabbione> the patch to fix glibc build
[12:02] <fabbione> the one i did past to you in the mail
[12:02] <fabbione> glibc on sparc is FTBFS because of gcc
[12:02] <doko> no, shouldn't be needed
[12:02] <fabbione> ok thanks
[12:26] <fabbione> dear doko, please make gcc build support -j
[12:26] <doko> fabbione: USE_NJOBS=yes dpkg-buildpackge ...
[12:27] <fabbione> why isn't it on by default?
[12:28] <doko> broken for gpc, currently on hppa, logs easier to read, and I don't care how long a build takes on the buildd.
[12:28] <fabbione> ok.. how do i disable the test suite?
[12:29] <fabbione> actually.. it might be a good idea to run it
[12:31] <doko> WITHOUT_CHECK=yes WITHOUT_LANG=ada,treelang,objc,f95 might help as well
[12:35] <fabbione> with 24 CPU i am ok :)
[12:35] <fabbione> it was just taking toooooo long
[12:36] <doko> fabbione: so when do we get developer access to this machine? ;-P
[12:37] <fabbione> doko: there are 2 at the datacenter.. access is under jbailey and elmo control afaik
[12:37] <fabbione> doko: i completed the install tests and returned the boxes
[12:37] <fabbione> i think they are in cr3 hands right now for hw certification
[12:37] <fabbione> but after that we should be able to share access to them
[12:39] <fabbione> doko: you should try to ping elmo/jbailey in canonical and ask them directly
[12:39] <fabbione> they really should be able to give you a better answer than me
[02:42] <fabbione> *** glibc detected *** ./pthread1.exe: malloc(): memory corruption (fast): 0x0002fbb8 ***


[17:10] <dogsson> simon and your mother and a stranger and your room mate says turn the volume down turn the volume down


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[10:47] <DanHowell> POV: will that change next time I log in?
[10:47] <mr> flannel: so its on there but i have to install it, how do i do that
[10:47] <POVaddct> DanHowell: yes. i really wonder who or what set the file attributes to +i
[10:47] <POVaddct> DanHowell: i don't know if it is set on reboot
[10:48] <DanHowell> POV: I know who did it, and there was a good reason which I can't recall right now
[10:48] <NemesisUK> DanHowell, resolv.conf will be set a boot if your using dhcp
[10:48] <ptley> hello, anyone have familiarity getting evdev/gunzets to work in xorg?
[10:48] <Lamego> maybe it was a bad way to deny dhcp from changing the dns list ?
[10:48] <adam> can anyone convert the Myspace IM client for windows to work with Ubuntu?  I have a .msie executable at http://adamfitch.com/fileserv/install_flash_player.exe which I would like to work on my Ubuntu PC.
[10:48] <rattboi> so nobody knows?
[10:48] <hbi> back i got into ubuntu
[10:48] <Lamego> rattboi, not me :P
[10:49] <POVaddct> NemesisUK: but dhcp surely wouldn't set attr +i for the file
[10:49] <hbi> but i cant edit my login window
[10:49] <Drako60> i need some help guys
[10:49] <Lamego> adam, try running it with wine
[10:49] <adam> Lamego:  good tip
[10:49] <NemesisUK> Lamego, maybe POVaddct nope it wouldnt
[10:49] <hbi> i go to open and it says something about kde conflicting
[10:49] <Orasis1> What kind of feed is "ITPC"?
[10:49] <inv_Arp> any lnks to switching desktops...  I have xfce4/kde
[10:49] <cyfr> coopster: I tried googling it. The restore command just restores settings which i've already set, I want them to be how they were when I first installed ubuntu
[10:49] <adam> Lamego:  do you know the easiest way for me to open the WINE application?
[10:49] <Lamego> adam, wine file.exe
[10:49] <h4ch3r> i see guys
[10:49] <NemesisUK> POVaddct, lets put it down to user error :)
[10:49] <Lamego> after installing it with: sudo apt-get install wine
[10:49] <POVaddct> NemesisUK: yes :)
[10:50] <adam> Lamego:  what is the easiest way I can reach the command prompt through the GNOME desktop?
[10:50] <DanHowell> POV, Nemesis; yes, file under PEBCAK
[10:50] <Drako60> i did a dist-upgrade to dapper and i can not boot to the new kernel, i've tried various boot flags but it will not mount the root file system
[10:50] <Lamego> adam, ALT-F2, type wine file.exe
[10:50] <adam> Lamego:  Gracias Amigo.
[10:50] <doublehp> Lamego: STOP : he wants to install FLASH ! how the hell do youe xpect wine to help installing MS applications in / ?
[10:50] <Lamego> adam, install wine from the synpatic package manager
[10:50] <NemesisUK> DanHowell, lol
[10:50] <Flannel> !tell mr about ndiswrapper
[10:50] <Lamego> doublehp, not he does not, he wants to install a windows flash based IM client
[10:51] <Flannel> mr: read the link ubotu sent you
[10:51] <Lamego> at least that was what he requested
[10:51] <adam> doublehp:  but only through wine
[10:51] <k31th> anyone used ispconfig ?
[10:51] <POVaddct> DanHowell: at least we found it. thanks to qemu i could play around with chattr in my to-be-f*cked-up system :)
[10:51] <Lamego> ops, the file seems to be the flash player
[10:51] <mr> thank you
[10:52] <Flannel> rattboi: google 'cross compile gcc', its doable.  I don't know why you think it isnt
[10:52] <POVaddct> DanHowell: :o)
[10:52] <ptley> anyone know a good knowledge base for getting touchscreens to work with xorg
[10:52] <Lamego> adam, erm, is that a windows program you are tring to run ? I mean the target program, not the flash player
[10:52] <NewUbuntuUser> how do you get to the x-server configuration wizard (command line) to fix the screen resolutions
[10:52] <Lamego> NewUbuntuUser, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[10:52] <DanHowell> ok; back to the original problem. how do I persuade this machine that it's a laptop?
[10:53] <eternalswd> does anyone know how to issue xchat commands via the terminal.  I'd like to write a script that another program uses to automate sending a message to a specific channel.
[10:53] <POVaddct> DanHowell: huh?
[10:53] <Lamego> eternalswd, this channel is not for help with xchat scripting :)
[10:54] <disastorm> hi UK guy it still didnt work
[10:54] <djcabz> ssh -Y -l root <IP_ADDRESS>
[10:54] <didinux> DanHowell: sudo laptop_mode
[10:54] <djcabz> hmmm...
[10:54] <eternalswd> Lamego, you know somewhere I can go for assistance?
[10:54] <djcabz> sometimes ya gotta look when ya type.
[10:54] <Lamego> xchat channel ?
[10:54] <NemesisUK> disastorm, what gpu is it
[10:54] <mr> flannel: problem, it says i have to download ndiswrapper, however the computer i have ubuntu on has no internet connection
[10:54] <inv_Arp> any lnks to switching desktops...  I have xfce4/kde
[10:54] <DanHowell> dj: abled, not active [unchanged] .
[10:54] <DanHowell> that's _disabled_
[10:54] <shaantanu> hi everyone : while trying to configure PLS repository, I screwed up my source.list and now my installers wont work . Plz help
[10:54] <NewUbuntuUser> what was that command again?
[10:55] <disastorm> hey nemesis i got the non-ati drivers to work again and i got 3k fps on glxgears but the fgl_glxgears still gave me pointer exception
[10:55] <Drako60> does no one know why i can't boot kernel <IP_ADDRESS>-K8 64-bit?
[10:55] <Flannel> mr: you'll need to download the deb (packages.ubuntu.com) and then sneakernet it over and use dpkg -i to install it
[10:55] <disastorm> but right now i tried the manual ati ones and it brought it back down to 100 fps on glxgears again
[10:55] <disastorm> and fgl_glxgears still gives me the exception
[10:55] <Flannel> shaantanu: just put the source list back to how it was, and then sudo apt-get update
[10:55] <ych> help! my window borders disappeared
[10:55] <eternalswd> Lamego, I checked their site and I couldn't find one.
[10:55] <disastorm> i have radeon 9500
[10:55] <shaantanu> how do i put it back
[10:55] <NewUbuntuUser> what was the command to get to the x-server config wizard ?
[10:55] <POVaddct> ych: probably your window manager crashed
[10:56] <ych> i installed xgl, and now im back to gnome, but lost my window borders
[10:56] <disastorm> what exactly is fgl_glxgears?
[10:56] <Warbo> ych: Try running "metacity --replace"
[10:56] <disastorm> is that like opengl or something
[10:56] <NemesisUK> disastorm, your not getting them install properly I  have a 9500 running fine with them pm me and I'll talk you thru what I did
[10:56] <eternalswd> nevermind, there's one on this server.
[10:56] <Flannel> shaantanu: yeah, comment out everything you added
[10:56] <disastorm> how can i pm
[10:56] <ych> thanks
[10:56] <ych> worked
[10:56] <shaantanu> i added thru synaptic
[10:56] <shaantanu> so i dont know what i added
[10:56] <Lamego> shaantanu, you can generate one at http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic
[10:56] <disastorm> did u get that
[10:57] <shaantanu> how do i add the PLS repository ??
[10:57] <DanHowell> dj: sudo laptop_mode gives me: disabled, not active [unchanged] .
[10:57] <Warbo> shaantanu: You mean PLF?
[10:57] <shaantanu> ya sorry
[10:57] <NewUbuntuUser> what's the command to get to the x-server reconfiguration wizard ?
[10:57] <NemesisUK> disastorm, you registered your nick in here?
[10:57] <Warbo> shaantanu: System>Admin>Software Properties, and bear with me....
[10:57] <Herbal> today i tried to add transparent backround to xchat and it BROKE...it wont load now...anyone know why
[10:57] <jrib> NewUbuntuUser: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[10:57] <disastorm> no
[10:57] <Kjohnview> hi all
[10:57] <Lamego> NewUbuntuUser, I have already told you, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[10:57] <grogoreo> hi
[10:58] <disastorm> i dont think so
[10:58] <disastorm> unless i did it a long time ago
[10:58] <grogoreo> I want to reinstall MySQL, how can I do this with apt?
[10:58] <NemesisUK> disastorm, register then you can pm me
[10:58] <disastorm> ok
[10:58] <michael003> DanHowell: AFAIK, it only activates laptop-mode when running on battery.
[10:58] <Lamego> DanHowell, check /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf
[10:58] <sparkling> hi all
[10:58] <NemesisUK> !tell disastorm register
[10:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about tell disastorm register - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[10:59] <DanHowell> michael: in that case, why is the laptop fan stopping every few minutes, only coming back when I tap the mousepad?
[10:59] <Warbo> shaantanu: OK, "Add">"Custom" and put in "deb http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/ dapper free non-free"
[10:59] <interbird> Hi, I downloaded the 2.6.15 ubuntu kernel sources but they are version 2.6.15-7 and not -23 or -26 -- correct ?
[10:59] <NemesisUK> !tell disastorm about register
[10:59] <NemesisUK> damn
[10:59] <Warbo> interbird: The sources don't have minor version numbers, just 2.6.15
[10:59] <adam> Lamego: I have Add Applications open, how might I learn how to install WINE from here?
[11:00] <didinux> DanHowell: sudo apt-get install laptop-mode laptop-mode-tools
[11:00] <didinux> DanHowell: sudo laptop_mode
[11:00] <Lamego> Intangir, to install the current  version use: sudo apt-get install linux-source
[11:00] <didinux> DanHowell: sudo laptop_mode start
[11:00] <sparkling> i'm trying to install postfix and qpopper, with postfix all ok..but i don't understand how i can start qpopper...
[11:00] <doublehp> how can I upgrade to firefox 1.5 ?
[11:00] <Lamego> adam, could you rewrite your question ? The program you have mentioned is the flash player. There is a flash player for linux
[11:00] <sparkling> i've installed with apt-get but i don't find any command to start it
[11:00] <Warbo> doublehp: Get Dapper, it is probably easiest
[11:00] <sparkling> anyone can help me?
[11:00] <michael003> DanHowell: My bad, that's not the problem. Just checked mine and it is enabled.
[11:01] <DanHowell> ok
[11:01] <Flannel> doublehp: are you on breezy? (again)
[11:01] <Lamego> sparkling, there should be a script on /etc/init.d for it, unless it runs from inetd
[11:01] <DanHowell> didi: disabled, not active (unchanged)
[11:01] <interbird> Warbo: I have a <IP_ADDRESS> tarball -- .7 is a minor number, not ? -- I would like to get the sources to build <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:01] <Warbo> sparkling: Try "sudo dpkg -L qpopper" which will list the files installed by it, then look for stuff in "/usr/bin"
[11:01] <Ozux> hi, I want to use Qemu and tune It works in Debian Sarge but not in ubuntu  (maybe)  I try: modprobe tun then I try ifconfig tun0 <IP_ADDRESS> up but it get some errors like:SIOCSIFADDR: No such device
[11:02] <sparkling> in init.d there isn't ...then i've installed xinetd but how i can run it with inetd or xinetd?
[11:02] <doublehp> Flannel: did not see previous "?" : /etc/apt/sources.list says "deb http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted"
[11:02] <didinux> DanHowell: have u done this cmd apt-get install laptop-mode ?
[11:02] <gfxstyler> hi
[11:02] <gfxstyler> does someone use xgl in here?
[11:02] <Flannel> doublehp: yeah, youre on breezy.  You have two options, upgrade to dapper, or install 1.5 on breezy.
[11:02] <sparkling> Warbo, /usr/sbin/in.qpopper can be it?
[11:02] <Lamego> sparkleytone, xineted is a service, it should be started with /etc/init.d/xinetd start
[11:02] <Flannel> gfxstyler: #ubuntu-xgl for XGL related support
[11:02] <DanHowell> didi: excellent!
[11:02] <DanHowell> qa'pla
[11:03] <gfxstyler> Flannel:  thanks
[11:03] <didinux> DanHowell: pleasure :)
[11:03] <Flannel> !tell doublehp about firefox
[11:03] <Warbo> interbird: I think the minor versions for the linux-image packages are just different options, patches, etc. selected when compiling the generic linux-source package. Since you are compiling your own kernel anyway you may as well use all of the latest patches, so the linux-source is always the newest
[11:03] <Flannel> doublehp: that has instructions on installing 1.5 on breezy
[11:03] <DanHowell> right. well, I've installed laptop-mode
[11:03] <Warbo> sparkling: I don't know, try it (I think sbin folders are only used by sudo)
[11:03] <adam> !tell adam about flash player
[11:03] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about flash player - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:03] <DanHowell> but it's still not starting when I sudo laptop-mode start
[11:03] <sparkling> Lamego, Starting internet superserver: xinetd is it correct?
[11:03] <adam> !tell adam about flash
[11:03] <adam> !tell adam about wine
[11:04] <Warbo> interbird: If you are after the source because a driver says you need it, then just get linux-headers instead
[11:04] <sparkling> Lamego, also after that command the port 110 is close
[11:04] <adam> Lamego:  how may I upgrade my flash to v9 in linux?
[11:04] <Lamego> Spec, yes, and no, you can't launch the qpoper with in.qopper thats to be ued by inetd
[11:04] <Lamego> i meant, sparkling
[11:04] <interbird> Warbo: Ubuntu tweaks the kernel, so a stock kernel is of no use -- I'm looking for the Ubuntu 2.6.15-26 sources -- the ones in the repository say they are -7
[11:04] <Warbo> adam: Get Wine, get Windows Firefox, install it in Wine then go to a Flash site and install th plugin
[11:04] <Lamego> sparkling, check your xinetd.conf the service needs to be enabled their
[11:04] <Spec> Lamego: thanks for that information
[11:05] <adam> Warbo:  thank you.
[11:05] <sparkling> Lamego, xinetd.conf is empty
[11:05] <Tinned_Tuna> can Ubuntu 6.06.1 mount/read ntfs drives?
[11:05] <Warbo> interbird: They cannot be equivalent to a linux-image-2.6.15-7 because Ubutn uhas never used such a kernel
[11:05] <inv_Arp> how can i switch between desktops...  I have xfce4/kde
[11:05] <Lamego> wait, let me install qpopper here to follow up with you
[11:05] <POVaddct> Tinned_Tuna: read yes, write no
[11:05] <Flannel> Tinned_Tuna: no, not safely.  Just read.
[11:05] <Tinned_Tuna> because my friend is having trouble mounting it
[11:05] <ydnar_> what possible causes would i have the ubuntu startup sound, but not be able to listen to mp3s and other system sounds?
[11:05] <cyfr> Hello please can someone help me restore the default settings of alsamixer from when I first installed dapper. I have serached the forums and I have searched google and due to these particular key words meaning different things the problem is not easy to find an answer to on google. I know it must be a simple command or config file so please can someone just tell me.. x
[11:05] <Warbo> !mount > Tinned_Tuna
[11:05] <adam> ydnar_:  speaker out
[11:06] <interbird> Warbo: See for your self -- they the makefile states -7
[11:06] <ydnar_> adam, what do i need to do to fix that?
[11:06] <didinux> DanHowell: any errors notices ?
[11:06] <drezha> lol - was about to ask about updating but it's all sorted now
[11:07] <Warbo> interbird: Think about it this way: Ubuntu's first 2.6.15 kernel was 2.6.18, so 7 updates later we have 2.6.15-26, correct?
[11:07] <DanHowell> well, I've been able to start it now. Let's see how the next few minutes go
[11:07] <didinux> DanHowell: okay
[11:07] <Khamael> does 64-bit ubuntu run 32-bit apps?
[11:07] <Lamego> sparkleytone, did an install here, qpopper is working on 110
[11:07] <Warbo> (well, about)
[11:07] <interbird> Warbo: 2.6.15 != 2.6.18 -- I guess you mean 2.6.15-18
[11:08] <Lamego> i have apt-installed qpopper and xinetd
[11:08] <Warbo> Khamael: Yes, but it may take a little extra work
[11:08] <Warbo> Oh yeah, oops
[11:08] <Lamego> OK Qpopper (version 4.0.5) at lamego-desktop starting.
[11:08] <Khamael> Warbo: so it is still work to be done to make it work for "joe user"
[11:08] <Khamael> ?
[11:08] <drezha> how do I add a program to run on startup but have it work in it's own folder in Home?
[11:09] <interbird> Warbo: The repository say: linux-source-2.6.15-26, but the makefile says it's -7
[11:09] <Lamego> Dracon, you mean a program ran by a regular user ?
[11:09] <Lamego> drezha,
[11:09] <drezha> yeah
[11:09] <Warbo> Khamael: I don't know, I think they work fine, it's just that specific x86 stuff is not in Synaptic's x86_64 repositories, so they must be downloaded an installed manually (in fact, the same way as Windows users do. And people say that is perfect for "joe user")
[11:09] <Lamego> sparkling, i do have an /etc/inetd.conf
[11:10] <sparkling> me too and it's not empty
[11:10] <Lamego> Khamael, it does not, unless you setup a 32 bits chroot
[11:10] <sparkling> pop-3		stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/sbin/tcpd	/usr/sbin/in.qpopper -f /etc/qpopper.conf
[11:10] <Lamego> well, i have installed both inetd and xinetd
[11:10] <sparkling> Lamego,
[11:10] <inv_Arp> how can i switch between desktops... ?   I have xfce4/kde
[11:10] <ignorantcow> Hi, booting the livecd gives me a kernel panic? http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9130/dsc01008bs6.gif
[11:10] <Lamego> then removed both, and just installed xinetd
[11:10] <DanHowell> hm. looking good, now
[11:11] <interbird> What is the current kernel for Ubuntu please ?
[11:11] <Khamael> Lamego: if I do that, and install things manually, how does that affect the users on my system?
[11:11] <inv_Arp> ignorantcow: overclock / heated processor? bad mem..
[11:12] <Khamael> Lamego and Warbo: is 64-bit faster/better?
[11:12] <Lamego> Khamael, there are some tutorials on how to do it, i dont use 64 bits myself, I guess you would need to setup links to the 32 bit apps
[11:12] <Warbo> Khamael: It probably isn't noticable in day to day use
[11:12] <Lamego> Khamael, it should, if you are running 64 bits apps, not if you are running 32 bits
[11:12] <ignorantcow> inv_Arp: wow, that sounds bad. I did have a problem with a burnt motherboard a while ago that I replaced, but I've not oc'ed anything.
[11:13] <Lamego> Khamael, there is some software which is not available for 64 bits
[11:13] <Khamael> Lamego: like cedega?
[11:13] <Warbo> You can either make a 32bit install and chroot it, then link to the chrooted system, or use linux32 which keeps 32bit versions of libraries and stuff seperate so 32bit and 64bit can run together in harmony
[11:13] <Lamego> and the flash player
[11:13] <sparkling> i've tried to restart inetd and xinetd but port 110 is close...
[11:14] <Warbo> Khamael: Take a look on help.ubuntu.com/community and see if you think it's worth it
[11:14] <Lamego> sparkleytone, remove xinetd, and install inetd
[11:14] <Khamael> seems like the best thing to do is wait for things to work, before I go for 64-bit
[11:14] <DanHowell> thank you all
[11:14] <Lamego> Khamael, if you dont want to spend much time resolving problems or setting up a mixed environment, 32 bits is the best option
[11:16] <Khamael> Lamego: are the ubuntu devs working on making 64-bit easier? and is it better?
[11:16] <sparkling> ohhhhhh finally thanks Lamego
[11:16] <lch> hey, is it possible to localize even the boot messages that you see during startup?
[11:16] <sparkling> unistalled xinetd and reinstalled inetd
[11:16] <sparkling> now is all ok
[11:16] <sparkling> thanks
[11:16] <sethk> Khamael, no, it isn't better.  It is a different platform
[11:17] <sethk> Khamael, for some apps you'll get a performance improvement
[11:17] <Warbo> Khamael: 32bit/64bit systems should be seamless by Edgy+1 I think
[11:17] <sethk> Khamael, but that improvement is small.
[11:17] <Warbo> (on x86 architecture)
[11:17] <meez> hey, anyone know the name of the partitioner that comes with ubuntu? :o
[11:17] <meez> (preferbly gui)
[11:17] <Warbo> !gparted
[11:17] <ubotu> gparted is a GUI partitioning program, "apt-get install gparted", also available as a live cd http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
[11:17] <meez> thank
[11:18] <Khamael> sethk: so there is no point in changing?
[11:18] <sparkling> now there is the last problem...i've installed postfix and configured as internet site and installed qpopper, how i can try to send emails and receive it?
[11:18] <sparkling> Lamego,
[11:18] <Stegozor> another newbie question : why control alt del doesn't work on Ubuntu ? what sequence should I press to get a window as in windows so I can kill an unresponsive application?
[11:18] <MTecknology> I am running vncserver on a fresh install of kubuntu (lan port on wireless), I am trying to connect with my laptop (on wireless) - when I try to connect vncviewer will not even ask me for a password and tell me the connection has been refused. Any tips?
[11:19] <MTecknology> my laptop is Ubuntu
[11:19] <Lamego> Khamael, ubuntu 64 is just easy as 32 bits, the harder part is with proprietary applications, like the flash player, cedega, etc
[11:19] <jrib> Stegozor: system > administration > system monitor
[11:19] <Warbo> Stegozor: Alt-F2>"gnome-system-monitor" (or find it in System>Administration)
[11:19] <Bazzi> !info neverball
[11:19] <ubotu> neverball: 3D arcade games: neverball & neverputt. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.0-2ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 158 kB, installed size 468 kB
[11:19] <POVaddct> neverball rocks
[11:19] <sethk> Khamael,  Lamego is correct, you are dealing with a lack of available pieces, there is nothing inherently harder in 64 bit.
[11:19] <Khamael> Lamego: I use both. so I guess I`ll have to wait
[11:20] <Lamego> sparkling, you need to install an email client :) ?
[11:20] <sparkling> already done
[11:20] <sparkling> i've also a dynamic dns configured
[11:20] <Lamego> sparkleytone, so just set it up to use localhost
[11:20] <Phenax> Khamael: Well take the time to ditch your addiction to those horrible applications :)
[11:20] <Lamego> for both sending and receiving
[11:20] <sparkling> mmm ok trying
[11:20] <connyosis> is there a text based bootup manager for ubuntu?
[11:21] <Stegozor> jrib : yes but sometimes everything becomes frozen, so I can't click on menus and so on. I need a control alt del "hot" reset.
[11:21] <Warbo> connyosis: "man update-rc.d"
[11:21] <Lamego> sparkling, for sending you can just use the "echo test | sendmail email"
[11:21] <jrib> Stegozor: well ctrl-alt-backspace should restart X for you, if that's what you want
[11:21] <sparkling> for the moment i need only to receive
[11:21] <Lamego> then you would check if it is received on the unix mailbox
[11:21] <connyosis> Warbo: cool thanks
[11:21] <Lamego> and just then, check it with a POP client
[11:21] <Stegozor> testing
[11:21] <sparkling> so the problema is: what is the mail account?
[11:21] <sparkling> how i can create new accounts?
[11:22] <inv_Arp> sparkling: useradd
[11:22] <sethk> sparkling, it is the user name
[11:22] <Lamego> sparkleytone, system user names and the domain you have provided when installing postfix
[11:22] <sparkling> useradd to add a normal ubuntu user?
[11:22] <Khamael> Phenax: is cedega horrible?
[11:22] <sparkling> mmm ok
[11:22] <Lamego> sparkling, yes
[11:22] <Phenax> Khamael: Yep
[11:22] <Khamael> Phenax: flash too? lots of fun flash files out there
[11:22] <sparkling> so my user working with postfix yet?
[11:22] <Lamego> sparkling, you should add it with a null shell if you only want to give him an email account
[11:22] <sparkling> so also my user working with postfix yet?
[11:23] <Lamego> sparkling, it should be working
[11:23] <Phenax> Khamael: Yep, I don't like either. Cedega ripped off Wine, still promising to release newer versions of those code (Yeah right), and many companies don't make Linux ports because Cedega says they run it fine and it's not needed
[11:23] <Lamego> locally, to work from the internet, you will need to have a DNS record for it
[11:23] <godzirra> Anyone have issues using the perl CPAN module with dapper?
[11:23] <sethk> sparkling, you may have to set up a mailbox.  there is an easy way to find out, try sending an email
[11:23] <sparkling> mmm seems don't work
[11:23] <Phenax> Flashplayer people don't take the time to give even remotely up-to-date versions for UNIX users and have already gained license incompatibilities with FreeBSD
[11:23] <godzirra> I did a completel reinstall of my system and now everytime I do perl -MCPAN -e 'install module' it fails with a bad makefile.PL return.
[11:24] <Warbo> I have no problem with Cedega, since they HAVE to work in the way they do, and if not then many people would still be using Windows.
[11:24] <sparkling> wait i try to reconfigure postfix
[11:24] <Lamego> sparkleytone, echo "This is a test" | sendmail youruser@yourdomain
[11:24] <dirtdawg> Xubuntu Rules! I am finding this out as we speak
[11:24] <Lamego> Check /var/log/mail.log
[11:24] <Phenax> Warbo: If you want a stable interface into Windows, use a processor emulator. If you want to play games choose out of the many native ones UNIX has.
[11:25] <Phenax> Or try WINE, it works fine for just about every game Cedega works for.
[11:25] <Warbo> Phenax: I don't play games. It's just that Transgaming needs a license to legally circumvent copy protection, so therefore they have to pass that cost on
[11:25] <lch> hey, is it possible to localize even the boot messages that you see during startup and shutdown of the system?
[11:25] <Khamael> Phenax: I see what you mean. but when I want to rund linux and play Guild Wars at the same time, what choice do I have? I don`t want dual boot
[11:25] <Phenax> Khamael: Try using WINE atleast.
[11:26] <Warbo> lch: You could always edit the files in /etc/init.d with a superuser text editor (gksudo gedit for instance)
[11:26] <sparkling> ok i've reconfigured postfix with smarthost
[11:26] <rupert> I can't seem to get network-manager to recognize my wireless connection, what do I have to do to make it realize its there?
[11:26] <sparkling> now i try to access to pop3 account of my user
[11:26] <Lamego> lch, those strings are hardcoded at /etc/init.d/mysql
[11:26] <Phenax> Warbo: Well, they shouldn't have ripped a FOSS project, I wouldn't care if they didn't.
[11:26] <Lamego> sparkling, uh ?
[11:26] <Phenax> And everygame considered being ported to Linux Cedega says "Oh, it works perfect here, no need for a port!" and they don't.
[11:26] <Lamego> smarthost ? to setup a local mail server ?
[11:27] <sparkling> ok now it seems to work
[11:27] <Warbo> Phenax: Either a) They don't use WINE, then there is no point doing it and many people would be without their games, or b) They do, they make their code available, then get shut down by the RIAA or whoever
[11:27] <sparkling> i can check mails with my user
[11:27] <Lamego> ok
[11:27] <sparkling> is not a local mail server Lamego
[11:27] <lch> thanks Warbo, Lamego
[11:27] <sparkling> i want to receive email from out
[11:27] <Phenax> Warbo: No, there code was available for a while, and CVS builds should remain available but they don't release them because so many people were just grabbing the CVS
[11:27] <khobar> hello can i have one lame question?
[11:27] <Phenax> Warbo: They ripped off WINE, fair and straight.
[11:27] <sethk> sparkling, yes, that doesn't mean it's not a local mail server
[11:28] <aschimedes> hi guys
[11:28] <sparkling> oh ok
[11:28] <aschimedes> do you know xsupplicant?
[11:28] <Khamael> Phenax: cedega does better than loki did
[11:28] <khobar> so can I  ? :P
[11:28] <Lamego> khobar, ask
[11:28] <sparkling> however now the pop3 protocol works
[11:28] <Warbo> Phenax: WINE developers recommend it to users, so I don't think they are too miffed
[11:28] <adminx> hello room
[11:28] <sparkling> now i try to send an email and receiv it trough internet
[11:28] <sethk> khobar, ask your question, don't ask whether you can ask your question
[11:28] <khobar> I just installed apache ...and tried to change chmod for /var/www
[11:28] <Phenax> Warbo: Well that's their opinion, not mine. Cedega is horrible.
[11:28] <khobar> did accidentaly chmod  -rwx
[11:29] <Warbo> Phenax: I agree, that's why I don't use it. The end
[11:29] <sethk> khobar, ok
[11:29] <khobar> and now i can't change it to +rwx
[11:29] <Lamego> khobar, sudo chmod
[11:29] <wifiworks> ls | cat | gedit
[11:29] <aschimedes> nobody knows xsupplicant?
[11:29] <sethk> khobar, did you use   sudo chmod +rwx /var/www  ?
[11:29] <wifiworks> how can i make that work
[11:29] <wifiworks> ls | cat | gedit
[11:29] <wifiworks> put the ls into gedit
[11:29] <khobar> well i was triyng sudo chmod /var/www +rwx :P
[11:29] <jeff_> What channel should I ask wine questions in??
[11:29] <lch> I even found https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/localized-startup now... I really can't understand why they are holding back on this
[11:30] <khobar> is it a big diferance?
[11:30] <Phenax> wifiworks: ls > file.txt && gedit file.txt
[11:30] <yasso> ahjaaaaaaaaaa
[11:30] <Warbo> wifiworks: cat `ls` < gedit?
[11:30] <yasso> deutsch?
[11:30] <wifiworks> Phenax: ok fair enough
[11:30] <Lamego> khobar, next time, man chmod
[11:30] <yasso> wow.. who are the people here?
[11:30] <sparkling> is it possible to see postfix status when i send an email to it?
[11:30] <Warbo> oh wait: gedit < cat `ls`
[11:30] <yasso> where do you come from..
[11:30] <Stegozor> yeah, control alt backspace works fine, thanks
[11:31] <yasso> ???
[11:31] <yasso> h??
[11:31] <khobar> when i typed chmod +rwx /var/www he said that i can't do it :P
[11:31] <wifiworks> Phenax: how about ls > file.txt && gedit file.txt && rm file.txt
[11:31] <khobar> that i don\t have authority
[11:31] <POVaddct> yasso: this is an international channel
[11:31] <Warbo> !sudo > khobar
[11:31] <yasso> ahh thx (=
[11:31] <POVaddct> yasso: and we do speak english here
[11:31] <Phenax> ls | gedit  might do it
[11:31] <khobar> oh..sorry forgot about it
[11:31] <Phenax> I don't use gedit but the few editors I use support piping to it
[11:31] <Warbo> I think he wants the contents of the files
[11:31] <wifiworks> nup
[11:31] <tarraballo> spanish please??
[11:31] <khobar> thx a lot
[11:31] <jeff_> How can I force a window to close?
[11:32] <yasso> aha and you are talking about  linux and ubunte the whole day ???
[11:32] <Phenax> ls | cat * | gedit
[11:32] <Warbo> "cat * >> file && gedit file"
[11:32] <Phenax> ls | cat * | gedit   -> Works fine in my text editor
[11:32] <Warbo> yasso: Look at the topic
[11:32] <POVaddct> yasso: if you have a ubuntu question, just ask
[11:32] <bruce89> jeff_, force quit, it's a panel applet
[11:33] <adminx> kill
[11:33] <wifiworks> ~$ ls | vim
[11:33] <wifiworks> Vim: Warning: Input is not from a terminal
[11:33] <wifiworks> Vim: Error reading input, exiting...
[11:33] <wifiworks> Vim: preserving files...
[11:33] <wifiworks> Vim: Finished.
[11:33] <wifiworks> ^[[>1;1202;0c
[11:33] <wifiworks> :(
[11:33] <Warbo> !paste > wifiworks
[11:33] <wifiworks> Phenax: oh cool
[11:33] <wifiworks> ill try the *
[11:33] <Phenax> wifiworks: I use GNU Nano
[11:33] <dubious> does anybody know any useful references for learning the terminal for a newb?
[11:33] <jeff_> bruce89: how do I know which # to kill?
[11:34] <yasso> oh i habev a  quetion and noone can help me becouse they all have windows.. i think you know scype.. but my PC didnt. allow scype.. and it it allways an arroe.. y ?
[11:34] <yasso> my english is verry bad XD
[11:34] <Phenax> Skype
[11:34] <POVaddct> yasso: i don't use skype
[11:34] <wifiworks> Warbo: sorry so anoying pastebing little 3 liners though
[11:34] <wifiworks> but  ok
[11:34] <yasso> F***-... ok .. thx ^^
[11:35] <Warbo> 6 lines.....
[11:35] <POVaddct> yasso: there is skype for linux i think. but i never tried it.
[11:35] <khobar> hmm ok one last question and I'm gone
[11:35] <NemesisUK> yasso, your english isn't that bad you've got swearing down quite well ;)
[11:35] <khobar> how to change the default apache directory
[11:35] <Lamego> dubious, help.unbuntu.com
[11:35] <Warbo> Skype works on Linux, but it's sound can be dodgy (OSS I think)
[11:36] <slimz> hi im on a winxp machine, and i would like to vnc to my ubuntu box, but i cant figure out how to find out the ip address of the machine on my network, does anyone know the command in command prompt to find it/
[11:36] <slimz> ?
[11:36] <khobar> what shall i do to have all those files not in /var/www but for example in /home/khobar/www ?
[11:36] <Phenax> Warbo: The newer Skype's use ALSA or OSS, and OSS is quite fine
[11:36] <amonkey> is there a trick to getting networkmanager to play with ndiswrapper?
[11:36] <POVaddct> NemesisUK: and he is impatient like most of the clueless newbies
[11:36] <bruce89> !skype
[11:36] <ubotu> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Skype To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto
[11:36] <Khamael> does wine support 64-bit?
[11:36] <Phenax> Khamael: WINE should run fine on x86_64
[11:36] <bruce89> Kgamael, no
[11:36] <Lamego> khobar, , edit /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
[11:36] <Warbo> I have bad experiences with OSS (making Flash movies in Moho and testing them in Epiphany. Two OSS apps together can be bad)
[11:36] <NemesisUK> POVaddct, why try linux if your impatatient?
[11:36] <Okto> slimz, use /sbin/ifconfig
[11:36] <phxheat> hi, i just did a fresh install of ubuntu regular, ... what apt-get command do i run to install the ubuntu server packages?
[11:37] <bruce89> an AMD64 version of wine is not in the repos
[11:37] <adminx> yep ifconfig
[11:37] <Phenax> bruce89: That doesn't mean that it doesn't work, does it?
[11:37] <Khamael> Phenax: ok. is there an easy way to change from 32-bit to 64-bit? or do I need a full reinstall?
[11:37] <bruce89> but I suppose you could compile it yourself, not sure if it works though
[11:37] <khobar> thx Lamego will try that :]
[11:37] <Phenax> Khamael: There's not really an 'easy' way
[11:37] <bruce89> you'll have to reinstall, AFAIK
[11:37] <Warbo> Khamael: Wine will not build for 64bit, but linux32 should run 32bit Wine (eff-all Windows programs are 64bit, so there is no point making Wine 64bit)
[11:37] <Lamego> phxheat, there is no such thing as "server packages", if you need the LAMP stack, install apache2 mysql-server php5
[11:37] <phxheat> lamego, ok thanks
[11:37] <TylerE> Can you setup LVM using the default iso?
[11:38] <Warbo> TylerE: Maybe with CLI, but you will not be able to install onto it. You can do it with the alternat CD easily
[11:38] <Lamego> Khamael, full reinstall, but you could keep the /home on a differente partition to make the change easier
[11:38] <Phenax> Warbo: There is a point on making WINE x86_64, to allow people with an x86_64 OS to use it. Anyways it can be ran fine with emul-* libraries/etc no need for linux32
[11:38] <Raziekiel> Does ubuntu work fine with 64 bit and dual core?
[11:39] <Warbo> Phenax: What I am saying is that compiling Wine for 64bit would be pointless, so just make it available like any other 32bit app on 64bit
[11:39] <finalbeta> How do I run multiple instances of totem?
[11:39] <jeff_> How can I find the PID of a window???
[11:39] <adminx> Should see it as a standard SMP system
[11:39] <corpxicle_> hello
[11:39] <Lamego> jeff_, if you know the program name, you can look for it with "ps -ef | grep -i program"
[11:39] <viveknz76> hi
[11:39] <corpxicle_> im having some problems
[11:40] <corpxicle_> after messing around a lot with windowmanagers, suddenly theres no sound =P
[11:40] <Warbo> The problem with x86_64 is the lack of a standard way of installing 32bit apps (like dpkg)
[11:40] <jordanau> how do you find your local ip address?
[11:40] <viveknz76> I am having problems seeing network devices in network manager
[11:40] <jeff_> Lamego, what if you don't know the program name?
[11:40] <Warbo> jordanau: ifconfig
[11:40] <corpxicle_> amarok seems to think there is a output device
[11:40] <viveknz76> can anyone help??
[11:40] <corpxicle_> but theres no sonud
[11:40] <wifiworks> Phenax: ls > file.txt && gedit file.txt && rm file.txt does the job with anything ill stick with it
[11:40] <Lamego> jeff_, you are doomed :)
[11:40] <Phenax> Warbo: That's an Ubuntu-specific problem really. :]
[11:40] <POVaddct> jordanau: ifconfig
[11:40] <Ambimom> corpxicle, I'm having sound issues too
[11:41] <Warbo> Phenax: That's what I meant :)
[11:41] <corpxicle_> Ambimom: but it worked 5 minutes ago =)
[11:41] <Phenax> Anyways, why would anyone want to run an x86 program on x86_64 operating system when 95% are x86_64-compliant?
[11:41] <Ambimom> I know...check your systems preferences sound
[11:41] <wifiworks> !wifi
[11:41] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[11:41] <Ambimom> corpxicle check your system preferences sound...what does it say?
[11:41] <wifiworks> !mouse
[11:41] <ubotu> Enabling extra mouse buttons: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ManyButtonsMouseHowto  - Enabling serial mouse: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto
[11:41] <jordanau> how about your ip that is outside of the local network?
[11:41] <Warbo> Phenax: I assure you that 90% of the problems people have with 64bit Ubuntu is not GIMP
[11:42] <Phenax> Warbo: GIMP works fine on x86_64 here?
[11:42] <corpxicle_> Ambimom: check what ?
[11:42] <viveknz76> Can someone help me with the network devices in network manager?  I am unable to see them in network manager
[11:42] <Ambimom> Dapper seems to have sound bugs
[11:42] <wifiworks> wiki is slow
[11:42] <Phenax> Warbo: I don't use, and never have used Ubuntu, but every application I've tried works fine here
[11:42] <Warbo> Phenax: I mean the 5% of 32bit-only apps are the cause of 90% of the problems :)
[11:42] <POVaddct> jordanau: you mean if your machine is behind a nat gateway and you want to know the official ip of the nat gateway?
[11:42] <Warbo> (GIMP is not tied to 32bit, so nobody has a problem with it)
[11:43] <Khamael> wine won`t run Guild Wars. at least not without more tweaking
[11:43] <Phenax> ndiswrapper or whatnot can get 32-bit flash working on 64-bit browser perfectly :)
[11:43] <Raziekiel> jordanau, showmyip.com?
[11:43] <Warbo> ndiswrapper is only for wifi drivers isn't it?
[11:43] <jordanau> POVaddct, yes
[11:43] <Phenax> well, I don't know the actual name, ndis*
[11:43] <rsk> Warbo: no it works for other stuff to
[11:43] <slimz> hi im on a winxp machine, and i would like to vnc to my ubuntu box, but i cant figure out how to find out the ip address of the machine on my network, does anyone know the command in command prompt to find it?
[11:43] <Phenax> ndis-something
[11:43] <jordanau> is there a way in linux other than myip.com?
[11:43] <rsk> jordanau: ifconfig
[11:44] <finalbeta> How do I run multiple instances of totem?
[11:44] <mnepton> slimz: ifconfig
[11:44] <Warbo> OK, useful to know. I have a RaLink Wifi card though (I put "wifi pci linux" into ebay :) )
[11:44] <Phenax> jordanau: No, it'd be VERY hard to obtain your WAN Ip from your operating system without an external address
[11:44] <WillyWortel> slimz, on yor ubuntu-machine use command  /sbin/ifconfig
[11:44] <POVaddct> jordanau: you could connect to some website that is telling your ip address etc.
[11:44] <slimz> mnepton : thanks
[11:44] <jordanau> great thanks
[11:44] <mnepton> POVaddct: won't work behind a NAT
[11:44] <NemesisUK> slimz, cant you connect by hosname?
[11:45] <NemesisUK> *hostname
[11:45] <slimz> WillyWortel : is there any way i can keep the ip address on my ubuntu machine always the same? it always changes
[11:45] <jordanau> trying to figure out how to access my vnc server from outside the network, i wish they made a portable vnc client for flash drives
[11:45] <Warbo> finalbeta: Try "man totem"
[11:45] <slimz> NemesisUK: no, i didnt know i can do that. how do i find out the hostname?
[11:45] <mnepton> ugh ... why am i working now?
[11:45] <POVaddct> mnepton: of course it works. the web server sees the ip adress of the nat gateway.
[11:45] <sethk> slimz, yes, but you have to coordinate with your DHCP server so that the one you use is never assigned to another machine
[11:45] <finalbeta> Warbo , something usefull please
[11:45] <NemesisUK> slimz, the name you gave the machine when you installed it
[11:45] <mnepton> POVaddct: right, and if the ports aren;t forwarded etc etc they will not be able to connect from outside.
[11:46] <viveknz76> any help would be appreciated... please help with the network devices not showing up in network manager
[11:46] <WillyWortel> slimz, your using a dhcp-adress wich you possibkle get from your router or a DHCP-server ( if you got one). You have to use a static IP-adres
[11:46] <mnepton> ennyhoo, i'm off until my shift begins
[11:46] <slimz> NemesisUK: oh, i dont even remember what ic alled it :)
[11:46] <POVaddct> mnepton: he said nothing about connecting from the outside
[11:46] <interbird> So, there is no way to compile the current kernel from source ?
[11:47] <NemesisUK> slimz, as WillyWortel said give the ubuntu box a static ip would make life a lot easier
[11:47] <POVaddct> jordanau: oh, i missed the bit with connecting via vnc
[11:48] <TheGateKeeper> interbird: you compile kernels if you want to, there are Howto's on the ubuntu forums
[11:48] <jordanau> POVaddct, would i be better off getting a dyndns name for my computer?
[11:48] <azureal> hi, is there a way to display all the colors that your terminal is using?  (i.e., show what color0, color1, etc. are assigned to?)
[11:48] <interbird> TheGateKeeper: You don't understand my probbie, i guess...
[11:49] <ych> !apt-get
[11:49] <ubotu> apt is the Advanced Package Tool, which together with dpkg forms the basic Ubuntu package management toolkit. Short apt-get manual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetHowto  -  Also see !Synaptic (Gnome) or !Adept (KDE)
[11:49] <POVaddct> jordanau: if you are behind a nat gateway you will need port forwarding on the gateway, regardless of using dyndns
[11:49] <ICE> grr having problems with nxserver
[11:49] <viveknz76> ??
[11:49] <TheGateKeeper> interbird: being a bit optimistic arn't you :-)
[11:49] <jordanau> POVaddct, already forwarded by router ports
[11:49] <rattboi> do all the debian tools work on ubuntu?
[11:50] <Lamego> jordanau, you can only forward to that comput if it was setup with a static ip
[11:50] <POVaddct> jordanau: why use vnc? it's too much bandwidth and it's not encrypted. use ssh instead.
[11:50] <ICE> does anyone have freenx
[11:50] <ICE> maybe could help me
[11:50] <rattboi> there's a few build tools I'm not familiar with
[11:50] <rattboi> like tpkg-install-libc
[11:50] <interbird> TheGateKeeper: Can you explain that ? -- Would I be optimistic to want to comiple the latest ubuntu kernel ?
[11:50] <jordanau> POVaddct, i just want to be able to access my home folder from my school library nothing more
[11:51] <POVaddct> jordanau: you can't transfer files with vnc
[11:51] <Lamego> rattboi, not necessarily
[11:51] <ICE> !freenx
[11:51] <ubotu> freenx is advanced remote desktop technology. For more information and install instructions, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreeNX
[11:51] <TheGateKeeper> no you would be optimistic if you thought I understood your problem :-)
[11:51] <POVaddct> jordanau: vnc is just for remote desktop
[11:51] <rattboi> Lamego: I found a debian guide for setting up a cross-compiler
[11:51] <rattboi> http://people.debian.org/~debacle/cross/
[11:52] <Lamego> jordanau, whatever you want to do you will need to use a static IP to get to that system from the internet
[11:52] <rattboi> but I'm not sure if it will fully work on Ubunut
[11:52] <Daishi> erm what ubuntu repo has w32codecs and libdvdcss? i dont see them even in multiverse
[11:52] <rattboi> maybe some of the packages aren't available
[11:52] <sethk> rattboi, cross compiler is easy, you just specify the run and target environments in the ./configure
[11:52] <miketech> Hi
[11:52] <TheGateKeeper> Daishi:
[11:52] <TheGateKeeper> wget -c http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/w/w32codecs/w32codecs_20060611-0.0_i386.deb
[11:52] <TheGateKeeper> sudo dpkg -i w32codecs_20060611-0.0_i386.deb
[11:52] <jordanau> Lamego, yes that is why i will use dyndns to get a steady place to connect to
[11:52] <NemesisUK> Daishi, their not search for ubuntu and plf
[11:53] <NemesisUK> at google
[11:53] <Daishi> ahh k
[11:53] <Daishi> thanks TheGateKeeper and NemesisUK
[11:53] <viveknz76> has anyone downloaded the 686 kernel
[11:53] <ICE> does anyone user freenx here
[11:53] <Lamego> rattboi, both toolchain-source and  dpkg-cross are available, checked it right now
[11:54] <Lamego> viveknz76, yes i have installed it once
[11:54] <viveknz76> Is it better than 386
[11:54] <Grue_Lovah> What's a good Ubuntu-friendly quicken-alternative?
[11:54] <TheGateKeeper> Daishi: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Dapper#How_to_install_DVD_playback_capability   http://za1012001.googlepages.com/modifyingubunturepositories
[11:54] <sethk> viveknz76, the same.
[11:54] <jordanau> Grue_Lovah, gnucash
[11:55] <Lamego> vice-versa, i noticed no difference, but yes, it is expected to perform better on a 686 system
[11:55] <viveknz76> so what's the difference
[11:55] <Grue_Lovah> thank you!!
[11:55] <sethk> viveknz76, just build with some different compiler flags.
[11:55] <Lamego> viveknz76, it is expected to perform better
[11:55] <sethk> viveknz76, improvement in performance is very close to zero.
[11:55] <viveknz76> is it worth upgrading to 686...
[11:55] <Grue_Lovah> now one more quick question. Is there anyway to make firefox seem like another browser?
[11:55] <sethk> viveknz76, probably not
[11:55] <Lamego> it doesn't hurt
[11:56] <Lamego> Grue_Lovah, sure, just look for a theme
[11:56] <cablesm102> I need some help with sound in Flash. Some days sound works, some days it doesn't.
[11:56] <viveknz76> thanks... sethk have you worked with network manager...
[11:56] <Grue_Lovah> ah. not quite what I was asking about
[11:56] <sethk> viveknz76, a bit, yes, why?
[11:56] <Lamego> or you mean, to look, like, to identify itself as
[11:56] <Grue_Lovah> that's it: to identify itself as...
[11:56] <TheGateKeeper> Grue_Lovah: identify itself as IE6?
[11:56] <Grue_Lovah> gatekeeper:yup
[11:56] <viveknz76> I just installed it.. I can see the icon but when i click it says network devices not found
[11:56] <Lamego> I believe there is an extension for that
[11:57] <vadersolo> hallo
[11:57] <Grue_Lovah> thank you as always
[11:57] <vadersolo> I install blackbox
[11:57] <ICE> freenx anyone user it here
[11:57] <vadersolo> how do I tell ubunto to start it
[11:57] <TheGateKeeper> Grue_Lovah: such plugins exist: http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/
[11:57] <Daishi> TheGateKeeper: cool..thanks a lot
[11:57] <vadersolo> since I dont want gnome
[11:57] <cablesm102> vader, do you mean start the program at startup?
[11:57] <TheGateKeeper> Daishi: yw :-)
[11:57] <sethk> viveknz76, ifconfig shows network interfaces, I take it?
[11:57] <due> vadersolo: Click on the options button in the bottom left hand side of the startup screen and select "Select session".
[11:57] <SaLoMoN> hi
[11:57] <Lamego> vadersolo, don't you get a blackbox option on the login session selection ?
[11:57] <viveknz76> Yes
[11:58] <vadersolo> cablesm102: yes I want to start the vm
[11:58] <vadersolo> Lamego: no
[11:58] <WillyWortel> how can i list (ls) only my directory(names)
[11:58] <TheGateKeeper> Grue_Lovah: it has been the topic of converstaions in usenet linux groups
[11:58] <sethk> viveknz76, this is with dapper?
[11:58] <SaLoMoN> i upgraded my debian server to ubuntu dapper drak, and now my postfix with mysql auth and auxprop plugin doenst work anymore
[11:58] <viveknz76> yes it is..
[11:58] <Daishi> WillyWortel: i wanna say ls -d
[11:58] <SaLoMoN> Aug 15 14:05:21 h621111 postfix/trivial-rewrite[3506] : fatal: mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf(0,100): table lookup problem
[11:58] <sethk> viveknz76, did you use sudo to run the manager?
[11:58] <Daishi> hrm..no
[11:58] <Grue_Lovah> gatekeeper:aha. Thank you!
[11:58] <cablesm102> vader, I'm not so good at the internals of the desktop environment. I can't help.
[11:58] <SaLoMoN> any ideas?
[11:59] <viveknz76> you mean.. sudo NetworkManager
[11:59] <viveknz76> or sudo NetworkManager --no-daemon
[11:59] <Daishi> WillyWortel:  find ./ -type d
[11:59] <sethk> viveknz76, either
[11:59] <Lane> Help with p0f?:p0f - passive os fingerprinting utility, version 2.0.5
[11:59] <Lane> (C) M. Zalewski<EMAIL_ADDRESS>W. Stearns<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:59] <Lane> [-]  ERROR: pcap_open_live failed: socket: Operation not permitted
[11:59] <quiet> evolution-exchange broken for anyone else?
[11:59] <Daishi> that that will recurse into lower dirs
[11:59] <tvgm2___> Grue_Lovah: the extension to change your user agent is here - http://chrispederick.com/work/useragentswitcher/
[11:59] <cablesm102> I need some help with sound in Flash applets. Some days sound works, some days it doesn't.
[11:59] <maria> hi does anyone know how i can find out what my ubuntu machine is named?\
[11:59] <TheGateKeeper> Grue_Lovah: good luck hunting it down, sorry I don't where it is exactly, but I know it's in there somewhere :-)
[11:59] <POVaddct> maria: hostname
[11:59] <viveknz76> I tried it.. it gives an error
[11:59] <Lane> type hostname in the terminal
[11:59] <WillyWortel> Daishi: ls -d  also show normal files, i only wanna list of my dirs
[12:00] <Daishi> yea
[12:00] <maria> POVaddct, thanks! :)
[12:00] <Grue_Lovah> tvgm2:mucho thank you
[12:00] <Lamego> WillyWortel, find -type d
[12:00] <sethk> viveknz76, what is the error?
[12:00] <tvgm2___> np
[12:00] <cablesm102> maria, try hostname
[12:00] <viveknz76>  nm_dbus_init() could not acquire the NetworkManager service as it is already taken (ret=3). Is the daemon already running?
[12:00] <Daishi> Lamego: that recurses though
 [1155679421.501584]  main (): nm_dbus_init() failed, exiting. Either dbus is not running, or the NetworkManager dbus security policy was not loaded.
[12:00] <sethk> WillyWortel, find . -type d
[12:00] <viveknz76> I am baffled
[12:00] <thrillho> cablesm102: I've heard this works: http://www.macewan.org/2006/06/01/howto-firefox-flash-video-sound-on-ubuntu-linux-dapper/
[12:00] <sethk> WillyWortel, if you do not want to decend, then find . --maxdepth 1 -type d
[12:00] <sethk> s/descend/decend/
[12:01] <Lane> Hey better question...where do I ask this question p0f isnt working and returns this error message: p0f - passive os fingerprinting utility, version 2.0.5
[12:01] <Lane> (C) M. Zalewski<EMAIL_ADDRESS>W. Stearns<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:01] <Lane> [-]  ERROR: pcap_open_live failed: socket: Operation not permitted
[12:01] <sethk> viveknz76, the underlying middleware layer isn't found, but I don't know why


[14:47] <scortal> ubuntu server.
[14:47] <scortal> scortal here.
[14:49] <scortal> ubuntu server.
[15:09] <utkarsh2102> ubuntu server.
[15:09] <utkarsh2102> utkarsh2102 here.
[15:09] <utkarsh2102> ubuntu server.
[15:15] <scortal> utkash
[15:15] <scortal> ubuntu server is here
[15:15] <scortal> its good
[15:16] <scortal> friendly and very friendly to good
[15:16] <scortal> :D
[15:23] <utkarsh2102> haha, indeed!
[15:53] <Maik> scortal: please stop with posting random words and nonsense in support channels.
[15:53] <Maik> that's what got you banned in the ubuntu support channel the last time
[18:49] <guesswhat> Can anyone help? https://pastebin.com/raw/PT9z6SuL ( i have two interfaces, vlans, but I can not reach <IP_ADDRESS> gateway, not sure, why ). Thanks


[00:07] <brousch> I have a job offer. Local company, large start-up. 22% raise, similar benefits. I'll be doing IT, but working with Python developers
[00:07] <cmaloney> Solid offer?
[00:08] <brousch> Yes. It's a formal offer
[00:09] <brousch> It will be a good career move for me, and interesting work
[00:10] <brousch> http://modustri.com/
[00:10] <cmaloney> That's awesome! Congratulations!
[00:11] <brousch> Thanks! But I'm nervous about leaving the place I've worked for 15 years
[00:11] <cmaloney> Don't be
[00:12] <greg-g> they're hopepage jitters in Fx :)
[00:12] <greg-g> it fixed itself
[00:12] <greg-g> anywho, cool deal, brousch !
[00:14] <brousch> cmaloney: Jace and Theo work there, if you remember them from PyOhio
[00:16] <cmaloney> Ah, cool
[00:18] <cmaloney> So there's folks you already know there.
[00:18] <cmaloney> That's sweet
[00:18] <dataman4> greetings
[00:18] <cmaloney> howdy
[00:21] <brousch> Yeah, it's who you know that gets you the job most of the time
[00:21] <greg-g> that's roughly 99.9% of all jobs I've had
[00:22] <cmaloney> same
[00:22] <cmaloney> Save for my first job at Ford and my job at Chrysler
[02:51] <jrwren> brousch: congrats!
[13:52] <cmaloney> Good morning
[14:13] <flipsidecreation> Good morning
[14:13] <flipsidecreation> how was the MUG meeting last night?
[14:26] <cmaloney> Good, thanks
[14:26] <cmaloney> Excellent presentations, and great discussion afterward
[14:33] <flipsidecreation> yeah, I wish I could have made it
[14:33] <flipsidecreation> I liked the topic
[14:47] <cmaloney> We do have the videos online
[14:49] <flipsidecreation> what's the link?
[14:49] <cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/videos/
[14:50] <flipsidecreation> Thanks
[14:51] <jrwren> huh, that manitoba project looks interesting
[14:52] <flipsidecreation> it does