[12:07] <bddebian> I need about 12 more machines that I can just start builds on
[12:07] <yosch> quick question to the packaging gurus: where can I find policy information about getting rid of old cache files in a package's purge?
[12:07] <bddebian> Or I should waste my 3 Hurd machine and put Ubuntu on them :-)
[12:08] <crimsun> yosch: postrm seems the most likely place.
[12:08] <yosch> especially when that old cache file is in a separate folder
[12:08] <crimsun> as in a defoma folder?
[12:09] <yosch> crimsun: isn't it against policy to remove a directory still containing a file?
[12:09] <sistpoty> bddebian: (ab)use tiber?... otherwise I wouldn't ever have been able to care for ghc6 (~6 hours on my machine)
[12:09] <crimsun> yosch: yes it is.
[12:09] <yosch> crimsun: as in a /usr/share/fonts/$font/fonts.cache-1
[12:10] <yosch> maybe leaving old these cache files behind when purging font packages is not very good either?
[12:10] <crimsun> yosch: in that case you want to take a look at a prerm like /var/lib/dpkg/info/ttf-dejavu.prerm, for instance
[12:10] <yosch> hum s/old these/these old/
[12:12] <yosch> crimsun: but in the case of the dejavu prerm the hints folder is not deleted
[12:12] <crimsun> yosch: e.g., http://pastebin.ca/96454
[12:12] <crimsun> right, it shouldn't be deleted
[12:12] <yosch> but for /usr/share/fonts/ every font family has its own folder
[12:13] <yosch> and I'm thinking a purge should get rid of that folder, shouldn't it?
[12:13] <yosch> crimsun: I was thinking of that problem when updating the gentium deb according to your instructions
[12:16] <crimsun> yosch: that's a non-issue, though
[12:17] <yosch> crimsun: OK, we can leave these files then
[12:17] <crimsun> it'll attempt to remove it and fail, which is correct.
[12:17] <crimsun> s/fail/dpkg will spit out a warning/
[12:19] <yosch> crimsun: yep
[12:20] <yosch> AFAICT the policy is to remove ~-files, #*# files, %-files when purging, maybe in the future we should consider getting rid of sub-caches files too
[12:20] <yosch> anyway not a big issue
[12:22] <yosch> crimsun: I have another warning for which you might have a tip: it's bug 6614
[12:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6614 in gs-common "Use of uninitialized value in print at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma line 108" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6614
[12:22] <yosch> there are various fonts suffering from this one
[12:24] <yosch> mmm, any way to silence the warning until we get a fix for the arcane defoma bits :/
[12:24] <crimsun> I haven't mucked w/ defoma at all
[12:25] <yosch> yes, the mind boggles a bit at defoma's perl
[12:26] <bddebian> defoma is frightening :)
[12:36] <yosch> mmm, apparently a dependency on some adobe maps... investigating further
[12:51] <yosch> OK, installing the cmap-adobe-* packages make the defoma script happy
[12:52] <crimsun> fgly hackaround.
[12:53] <yosch> crimsum: yes pretty bad :(
[12:53] <yosch> especially since these packages are in multiverse... eek
[12:54] <zul> i would be more concerned if they were in main
[12:55] <yosch> we should fix this for CJK users but for now pretty much all fonts install uninstall with this warning and this is problematic
[12:55] <LaserJock> bddebian: gcalctool?
[12:56] <bddebian> What about it?
[12:56] <LaserJock> bddebian: did you see seb's comment?
[12:56] <bddebian> Where?
[12:56] <LaserJock> your sync bug
[12:57] <yosch> zul: actually it's some feature from a package in main depending on non-free multiverse stuff
[12:57] <bddebian> Oh, WTF does LP integration have to do with anything?
[12:57] <yosch> try installing a new font family
[12:58] <bddebian> Which seb is that?  I can never keep them straight :-)
[12:59] <LaserJock> bddebian: seb128
[12:59] <bddebian> Gah, and where is he damnit..? :)
[12:59] <crimsun> it's the weekend :-)
[01:00] <bddebian> Well he's obviously responding to bugs :-)
[01:00] <crimsun> he loves reassigning :-)
[01:04] <bddebian> Do either of you understand his comment?
[01:05] <LaserJock> I think so
[01:05] <LaserJock> I thought that Gnome apps were getting LP integration
[01:05] <LaserJock> for bug reports or something
[01:06] <bddebian> But the last change to gcalctool was dholbach do a new upstream release
[01:09] <LaserJock> bddebian: ok, but you are asking for a sync, right
[01:09] <LaserJock> bddebian: so you are saying that all Ubuntu changes can be dropped
[01:09] <bddebian> Yes, because Debian now has that version
[01:10] <LaserJock> but you are sure that it doesn't need a merge?
[01:11] <bddebian> Ooohh, I missed the previous changelog entry
[01:11] <bddebian> I still don't get this shit.  One minute we are supposed to be in sync with Debian whereever possible, then that shit gets thrown out the windo
[01:11] <bddebian> w
[01:12] <tseng> sigh
[01:12] <tseng> "wherever possible" is meant to be up to your best judgement
[01:12] <Fujitsu> What's the diff?
[01:13] <sistpoty> hm... the always stay in sync doesn't count for main and gnome, does it?
[01:13] <Fujitsu> sistpoty, probably not :P
[01:13] <tseng> gnome syncs with debian
[01:13] <bddebian> First I've heard that
[01:13] <tseng> it just has different upstream versions
[01:13] <sistpoty> ah... k
[01:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: but the fact remains that the Ubuntu packages has launchpad integration and Debian probably doesn't
[01:15] <LaserJock> so that's an Ubuntu change that shouldn't be dropped, no?
[01:15] <bddebian> Yes, I'm rejecting the bug
[01:15] <Fujitsu> What should be done about bug #49512? gnome-web-photo adds significant functionality to Beagle, yet it neither Recommends or Suggests it. It should probably Suggest it, shouldn't it?
[01:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49512 in beagle "Beagle should suggest or recommend gnome-web-photo" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49512
[01:17] <bddebian> Fujitsu: to quote tseng "Use your best judgement"  ;-P
[01:17] <Fujitsu> I think it should Suggest it, as it's certainly valid.
[01:17] <LaserJock> yeah, that's always hard for me
[01:18] <tseng> beagle is in main.
[01:18] <bddebian> It's freaking irritating
[01:18] <tseng> and ive never even heard of gnome-web-photo
[01:18] <LaserJock> somebody alwys seems to have better judgment then me ;-)
[01:18] <bddebian> One minute I get bitched at for adding functionality, the next minute for not syncing with Debian
[01:18] <Fujitsu> tseng, true, I forgot Beagle was in main.
[01:18] <tseng> sigh
[01:19] <tseng> who is bitching at you?
[01:19] <bddebian> I'm talking about previous packages
[01:19] <tseng> I am guessing there is more to this than you are letting on
[01:19] <tseng> or there is miscommunication
[01:19] <bddebian> There is shitloads of miscommunication
[01:19] <tseng> sure, IRC sucks
[01:20] <LaserJock> bddebian: just avoid gnome and you'll be fine ;-)
[01:23] <LaserJock> bddebian: I have a new plan for you to become a core dev
[01:23] <bddebian> I'm not sure I have any interest any longer
[01:23] <LaserJock> take over TeX packaging in Ubuntu
[01:24] <sistpoty> bddebian: +1 from me... universe mustn't loose all the good ppl. to main ;)
[01:24] <LaserJock> yes
[01:24] <Fujitsu> sistpoty, heheh.
[01:25] <bddebian> sistpoty: Well thanks but that would imply that I am some type of "good ppl" :-)
[01:25] <LaserJock> who needs the stress we've only got thousands of packages to take care of
[01:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: you are, no doubt about it
[01:25] <sistpoty> bddebian: if you aren't among the go(o)d ones, who ever is?
[01:26] <bddebian> sistpoty: You, LaserJock, crimsun, \sh, slomo, et al
[01:26] <Fujitsu> bddebian, I'd say `et al' includes you.
[01:26] <LaserJock> bddebian: dude, et al? how scientific of you :-)
[01:27] <yosch> looked around but couldn't find anything... anybody has pointers on how to hide particular error messages in a maintainer script?
[01:27] <yosch> or redirect it
[01:28] <LaserJock> way more karma then me
[01:28] <Fujitsu> sistpoty, but there's no Soyuz karma yet, so that doesn't work.
[01:28] <LaserJock> bug karma
[01:28] <Fujitsu> :O
[01:28] <LaserJock> bddebian has done a ton of work fixing bugs
[01:28] <Fujitsu> Twice as much as me...
[01:28] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: are you sure? somehow my karma suddenly increased from ~30.000 to ~100.000
[01:28] <sistpoty> and I didn't do much bug work recently
[01:29] <Fujitsu> sistpoty, mine was 20000 3 days ago, and 2 days ago it jumped to 51000, and today to 80000.
[01:29] <LaserJock> they redid the karma apparently
[01:29] <Fujitsu> They're rescaling everything.
[01:29] <Fujitsu> Bug-karma is about 4 times as valuable now, as was proposed.
[01:29] <LaserJock> mine is 76055. I suck :(
[01:30] <LaserJock> and a lot of that is from an edgy spec
[01:31] <zul> i think mine is decreasing but i do more, than is reflected
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Previously, you could get heaps more karma through translations than through bugs, so more people translated.
[01:31] <sistpoty> I guess karma is the most useless thing to have... but still it makes fun to grumble about not having enough of it *g*
[01:31] <LaserJock> yeah, the en_US translation team didn't want me ;-)
[01:32] <LaserJock> I think it's good, the LP admins just need to stablize how they are going to do it
[01:35] <zul> heh 1 point for everyupload you do
[01:43] <yosch> so nobody know of a good way to hide a non-fatal warning message appearring at install/uninstall?
[01:43] <zul> er...fix it? :)
[01:44] <sistpoty> yosch: why do you want to hide it in the first place?
[01:44] <Kyral> redirect the whole shabang to /dev/null
[01:44] <Kyral> There are harmless warnings
[01:44] <bddebian> Damn, now I'm leary of requesting more syncs
[01:45] <Kyral> Like how at boot Arch complains that /dev/null already exists when populating udev :P
[01:45] <yosch> it's bug 6614, and yes they are AFAICT harmless but annoying 15 line long warnings
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6614 in gs-common "Use of uninitialized value in print at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma line 108" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6614
[01:45] <Kyral> Or my overactive DEBUG setting in SHCD
[01:45] <yosch> Kyral: where would I do the redirect? in rules
[01:45] <Kyral> (Set DEBUG to 2 in shcdrc and watch your logfile go HUGE fast :P)
[01:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: I'd just be leary of sync requests for -0ubuntuX packages
[01:46] <Kyral> Rules is just a shell script
[01:46] <Kyral> so whatever command is spitting the error just redirect its output
[01:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: other ones you can look at the diff between Debian and Ubuntu to make sure you haven't missed something
[01:46] <Kyral> I should really package SHCD...but it requires something too specific right now
[01:47] <Kyral> I haven't gotten around to rewriting it to get rid of the issue either
[01:47] <yosch> Kyral: a simple 2> /dev/null then in debian/rules then?
[01:47] <Kyral> oh shcd.azuredreams.us if you wanna know WTF SHCD is
[01:47] <Kyral> yosch: I usually use &> to redirect things to /dev/null
[01:47] <zul> bddebian: you wanna trade?
[01:47] <bddebian> Trade what?
[01:47] <Kyral> 2> only sends STDERR to wherever
[01:48] <Kyral> &> sends all output to wherever
[01:49] <yosch> Kyral: mm, where do I put it in the rules file exactly?
[01:49] <zul> bddebian, xen/kernel for what you are doing..
[01:50] <yosch> Kyral: is there a variable to declare?
[01:50] <Kyral> Xen what now
[01:50] <bddebian> Oh I'm just a fucking lackey, I couldn't be trusted with xen/kernel shit
[01:50] <Kyral> yosch: I haven't touched a rules file in ages
[01:50] <Kyral> but I know from shell scripting that all you need to do is find what line is making the error msg spit out and redirect its output to null
[01:51] <Kyral> now what about Xen :P
[01:51] <sistpoty> yosch: debian/rules is not the place to fix this... rather than the gs.defoma script...
[01:51] <Kyral> meh you guys no fun. You know I love Xen and playing with it
[01:52] <yosch> sistpoty: yes of course
[01:52] <Kyral> Actually i have to make a new XenGuest on Azuredreams come Monday....
[01:52] <Kyral> damnit I nuked my template image...gonna have to Debootstrap it manually
[01:52] <yosch> sistpoty: but we had that bug for various cycles now and nobody has understood defoma well enough to do something
[01:53] <yosch>  in the meantime, redirecting a non-fatal warning
[01:55] <sistpoty> yosch: but that warning is never given from s.th. in debian/rules, since rules is only used during building... so maybe gs.defoma might be the place to silence this
[01:55] <zul> <mr burns>excelent...xen-hypervisor-3.0-i386-pae_3.0.2+hg1174-2ubuntu1_i386.deb</mr burns>
[01:56] <sistpoty> yosch: however silencing a warning instead of fixing the real bug behind me seems not like a good solution, but that's only my 2c ;)
[01:56] <sistpoty> s/behind me/behind it/
[01:57] <yosch> sistpoty: yep, you're right
[01:58] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I like that
[01:58] <Fujitsu> What a silly long version number, zul.
[01:59] <Fujitsu> Can somebody please approve the sync in bug #53421.
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53421 in gphpedit "Please sync gphpedit 0.9.80-3 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53421
[01:59] <Fujitsu> *?
[01:59] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: I'll take a look...
[02:00] <yosch> the trouble is that this bug is rather hairy...
[02:01] <Kyral> Hehe if you could I'd have the most filed against :P
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Thanks, sistpoty.
[02:01] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: np
[02:03] <warpup_lite> like.. yo.. and stuff
[02:03] <Fujitsu> If you could file bugs on people, I'd certainly file one about Thilo Six, and probably one about sabdfl not having signed the CoC 1.0.1.
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Hi, warpup_lite.
[02:03] <warpup_lite> hi @ fuji :)
[02:04] <Kyral> How about one on me not running Ubuntu anymore :P
[02:04] <warpup_lite> what you running now @ kyral?
[02:04] <Kyral> ArchLinux on the Desktop and Laptop, Xen Debian on my Server
[02:04] <warpup_lite> ahh
[02:04] <Kyral> the XenGuests run Debian Testing or Stable
[02:05] <Kyral> I forgot which
[02:05] <warpup_lite> sounds groovy
[02:05] <warpup_lite> archlinux is a gentoo derivative isn't it?
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Aha. Another request for pam_keyring on ubuntu-devel.
[02:05] <Kyral> The Xensource site has a nifty little script to get around /lib/tls problems when running an upgrade
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Not as far as I know, warpup_lite.
[02:05] <Kyral> warpup_lite: Slack based, in philosopy
[02:05] <warpup_lite> ahh
[02:05] <Kyral> Keep It Simple Stupid
[02:06] <Kyral> though I have read that Judd really wrote pacman to manage his LFS install at first, then that became the core of Arch
[02:06] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[02:06] <Kyral> Rubix is Slack+Pacman (literally)
[02:08] <warpup_lite> it's been raining like crazy for a 200 mile radius around where im at.. but not one drop of rain for me =|
[02:12] <warpup_lite> man..the chat is going so fast i can't keep up :~
[02:12] <LaserJock> people are working I suppose
[02:12] <warpup_lite> hmm
[02:12] <bddebian> NOt me, I don't do anything
[02:12] <warpup_lite> haha @ bd
[02:12] <warpup_lite> it's saturday for me ~shrugs~
[02:13] <warpup_lite> something wrong with the wiki?
[02:14] <bddebian> Fujitsu: What, that I'm a Dog? :)
[02:14] <LaserJock> not that I know of
[02:14] <Fujitsu> bddebian, not that bit :P
[02:14] <bddebian> warpup_lite: 8:15PM Sat here
[02:14] <warpup_lite> 7:14 here
[02:14] <LaserJock> 5:15PM here
[02:14] <warpup_lite> you must be east coast
[02:15] <warpup_lite> ya'lls clocks are fast
[02:15] <bddebian> warpup_lite: Yep
[02:15] <warpup_lite> :)
[02:15] <bddebian> PA
[02:15] <warpup_lite> groovy
[02:15] <warpup_lite> <-- missippi
[02:16] <warpup_lite> my figs tree have been providing about two dozen very fat figs daily for about a week now :)
[02:16] <warpup_lite> fig trees
[02:17] <bddebian> Nice
[02:17] <warpup_lite> yah.. i eat'em raw
[02:17] <warpup_lite> tastilicious and good for you
[02:18] <warpup_lite> wonder if somebody is DoS'ing yahoo
[02:19] <warpup_lite> yahoo mail, yahoo chat, yahoo tv listinsg.... all down for several hours now
[02:20] <LaserJock> bddebian: hmm, gri and lattice were new upstream versions? or debian revisions?
[02:21] <bddebian> LaserJock: Lattice is a new upstream release
[02:22] <warpup_lite> yagisan... really?
[02:22] <Yagisan> yes
[02:22] <warpup_lite> hmm.. lemme flip my DNS
[02:22] <Fujitsu> Is anybody else packaging pam_keyring?
[02:22] <Yagisan> I'm still getting spam^W email
[02:25] <yosch> crimsun: just posted the updated package + sent the debdiff for ttf-gentium
[02:25] <warpup_lite> hmm
[02:26] <warpup_lite> i can get to all other web places... cept for yahoo stuffs
[02:26] <warpup_lite> hmm
[02:26] <warpup_lite> even if i try public dns
[02:26] <bddebian> LaserJock: Oh, gri was a new upstream release also
[02:26] <warpup_lite> le weird
[02:27] <LaserJock> bddebian: ok, I'd like to not give too much work for ubuntu-archive
[02:28] <warpup_lite> i can ping yahoo stuffs
[02:30] <bddebian> LaserJock: You want me to quit?
[02:31] <LaserJock> bddebian: no, but perhaps don't request for new Debian revisions just yet
[02:39] <bddebian> LaserJock: As you command
[02:39] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:40] <LaserJock> well I'm just trying to cover your back here
[02:40] <LaserJock> don't want you getting yelled at
[02:40] <bddebian> Fuck it, they all dislike me anyway :-)
[02:40] <LaserJock> no, actually it's more useful to do the normal merges/syncs
[02:41] <LaserJock> I'm guessing Keybuck will run a sync at some point before the Universe Freeze
[02:41] <LaserJock> so they should be automatically grabbed
[02:42] <bddebian> So just do the merges?
[02:42] <LaserJock> for now, I guess
[02:43] <LaserJock> I think new upstream versions might be worth while so we can get testing in
[02:43] <LaserJock> but if somebody just fixed a typo I don't think we should bother the archive admins
[02:48] <yosch> is it possible to request a merge for a particular package?
[02:48] <yosch> what's the procedure? any pointer to docs I missed?
[02:49] <zul> yeah you can get bddebian to do that ;)
[02:49] <sistpoty> yosch: do you want to request a sync?
[02:49] <yosch> sistpoty: yes, any tips on how I need to do it?
[02:51] <yosch> put it down on the wiki page?
[02:51] <yosch> or just ask here?
[02:51] <Fujitsu> yosch, which package?
[02:51] <sistpoty> yosch: 1) make sure the ubuntu changes (if any) can be dropped 2) testbuild the debian package 3) file a bug against the sourcepackage according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources 4) have a motu ack the sync
[02:52] <yosch> OK, thanks
[02:52] <yosch> 1) no changes
[02:52] <yosch> 2) package is building fine
[02:53] <yosch> doing 3)
[02:54] <sistpoty> yosch: oh, I forget 3.5 (since that's part of every build I do): verify that the built package installs and upgrades fine on edgy (piuparts does that trick)
[02:54] <sistpoty> 2.5 even
[02:55] <LaserJock> that reminds me
[02:56] <bddebian> Someone have an Edgy machine handy?
[02:56] <sistpoty> bddebian: I'm just using one
[02:57] <bddebian> sistpoty: Could you do an update and see if grass 6.0.2-2.1ubuntu1 is in the archive yet?
[02:58] <sistpoty> bddebian: 6.0.1-1ubuntu2 (source)... but I may be delayed one day (since I use a german mirror)
[02:58] <LaserJock> ok, I need some quick advice about chroots
[02:58] <bddebian> Ah OK, thanks
[02:59] <sistpoty> np
[02:59] <LaserJock> I need to update with how to install lang packs
[02:59] <LaserJock> but what whould be the appropriate package to install?
[02:59] <LaserJock> !info grass edgy
[02:59] <ubotu> grass: Geographic Resources Analysis Support System. In repository universe, is extra. Version 6.0.1-1ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 5534 kB, installed size 13804 kB
[03:00] <sistpoty> LaserJock: can you give some more details? (or a wiki-link?)
[03:01] <LaserJock> sistpoty: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot there is a line to apt-get install locales
[03:01] <LaserJock> but that is not correct for Dapper+
[03:01] <LaserJock> instead you should install the appropriate lang-pack
[03:01] <yosch> sistpoty: hum, how do I run piupart for edgy (from dapper)
[03:01] <LaserJock> but there is language-pack-XX, language-pack-XX-base, and language-support
[03:02] <LaserJock> I'm guessing language-support is not what I want since that is for firefox and OO.o etc.
[03:02] <sistpoty> yosch: it has an option to use the pbuilder chroot... see the manpage
[03:04] <LaserJock> ?
[03:04] <LaserJock> it looks me me like language-pack-XX and language-pack-XX-base have a circular dependency
[03:08] <LaserJock> oh, I guess maybe -base is the big stuff and then language-pack-XX has the updated translations
[03:10] <fowlduck> howdy peoples of earth
[03:10] <sistpoty> LaserJock: from my guess, it's language-pack-XY, but I don't have much clue about that really
[03:12] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm going for
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya fowlduck
[03:17] <LaserJock> fowlduck: remember this is Universe, don't be so narrow in your greetings ;-)
[03:17] <LaserJock> sistpoty: looks like you got a bite on -motu :-)
[03:19] <fowlduck> is us.archive.ubuntu.com not accessible?
[03:19] <sistpoty> LaserJock: just reading it ;)... but it's better to get negative feedback than none at all *g*
[03:20] <LaserJock> that's called "opening a dialogue" :-)
[03:21] <fowlduck> hey, what's the link to all those packages up for review again?
[03:22] <LaserJock> revu.tauware.de
[03:22] <LaserJock> can you make less not wrap lines?
[03:22] <bddebian> fowlduck: Yes us.archive.. is having issues
[03:23] <fowlduck> ok, cool, it's not just me
[03:52] <Hobbsee> hi all
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[03:53] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian ;0
[03:54] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[03:54] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock, how are you doing?
[03:54] <LaserJock> ok
[03:55] <LaserJock> it's hot here today
[03:55] <LaserJock> and I did a lot of digging in the back yard this morning
[03:55] <LaserJock> so I've been sweating non-stop all day :/
[04:05] <zul> hey hobsee
[04:08] <LaserJock> bddebian: heh, I'm grepping all my irc logs for packaging guide references
[04:09] <LaserJock> I'm trying to find every time somebody had complained about something in the packaging guide since Dapper was released
[04:09] <LaserJock> so I can fix it :-)
[04:10] <bddebian> Joy :-)
[04:10] <bddebian> I'm debating whether to try to fix axiom or not.. :-(
[04:11] <bddebian> upstream seems to be pretty dead
[04:11] <crimsun> "yes, you will"
[04:11] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[04:11] <crimsun> "yes, you wll fix axiom"
[04:11] <crimsun> will ^
[04:12] <bddebian> Hmm, why is that? :-)
[04:12] <crimsun> because you love fixing packages!
[04:12] <bddebian> I do?
[04:13] <crimsun> sure!
[04:15] <bddebian> If you say so
[04:16] <zul> crimsun: he cant do anything else ;)
[04:17] <LaserJock> you fix a lot more than me bddebian
[04:18] <LaserJock> sistpoty: mjg59 commented on your email to -motu?
[04:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course he can
[04:19] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sheesh... mixing up nicks here...
[04:20] <ajmitch> hehe
[04:20] <sistpoty> LaserJock: it was mpalmer (at least a match with first names)
[04:20] <ajmitch> matthew palmer == womble
[04:20] <ajmitch> who's been around here sometimes
[04:20] <sistpoty> a righto... thanks
[04:20] <zul> womble?
[04:21] <ajmitch> he hasn't been in this channel for awhile though
[04:21] <sistpoty> btw. hi ajmitch ;)
[04:21] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty, how's it going?
[04:21] <sistpoty> ajmitch: finally I've got a little bit more spare time to spend on ubuntu :)
[04:21] <ajmitch> great :)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> hi zul
[04:22] <LaserJock> sistpoty: and possibly REVU2? :-)
[04:22] <sistpoty> for sure :)
[04:23] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah.  tickling, then.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> hi sistpoty, i think i stole a merge of yours - hope that's okay
[04:23] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: sure, go ahead ;)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: hehe :)
[04:24] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'll just ignore any reminders or encouragements for me to do merges
[04:24] <ajmitch> since I'll do them in my own time, when I feel like it
[04:24] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: i figure that most merges there now are fair game, as they havent been done yet.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh, i'm leaving all of yours alone.
[04:24] <sistpoty> hehe
[04:26] <bddebian> Hmmm
[04:26] <Hobbsee> oh excellent, i can fix kdar now.
[04:27] <bddebian> Hobbsee: BTW, I sent a "fix" for hamlib to Debian but haven't heard anything back yet
[04:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: I just did praat btw
[04:27] <Hobbsee> bddebian: oh good - thankyou ;0
[04:28] <zul> bbl
[04:30] <ajmitch> bddebian: oh, thanks for telling me beforehand
[04:30] <bddebian> Sorry dude
[04:30] <bddebian> I was getting over zealous on Science packages
[04:31] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's been known to cause permanent damage to keyboards and is unadvisable
[04:31] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
[04:31] <Hobbsee> but...but...
[04:33] <lukaswayne9> I have a package that I have got into universe.   That's all I need to do?  I've done my deed as a good samaritan and I can go on with life?
[04:52] <ajmitch> excellent, pbuilder on my laptop seems to be rather broken
[04:52] <bddebian> w00t
[04:53] <ajmitch> as in, I copied over the base tarball from my main box & it's still broken
[04:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah, great.  was that the one that was broken while you were still here?
[04:54] <sistpoty> lukaswayne9: send a mail with RFS to debian-mentors (you can get a template from the webpage)
[04:54] <lukaswayne9> alright
[04:54] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, this is the one where sudo asks for a password & fails
[04:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahh..
[05:03] <sistpoty> damn... I wanted to go to bed early this evening... now dawn is breaking again :/
[05:04] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> someone pinged me? its gone out of xchats buffer :|
[05:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah well. heading out.
[05:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> bbbl
[05:08] <Hobbsee> bye a
[05:08] <Hobbsee> ll
[05:15] <bddebian> WTF is this?  (defentry |hashCombine| (int int) (int "MYCOMBINE"))
[05:15] <bddebian>  Or at least what is (int int) (int "MYCOMBINE")) ?
[05:15] <ajmitch> functional programming
[05:16] <bddebian> Well MYCOMBINE is declared earlier as an unsigned int so how do I fix that?  Can I do:  (int int) (unsigned int "MYCOMBINE")) ?
[05:16] <ajmitch> not enough context
[05:17] <_jaldhar> is anyone else having problems reaching us.archive.ubuntu.com?
[05:17] <LaserJock> yes
[05:17] <bddebian> _jaldhar: Yes
[05:17] <jaldhar> poo
[05:17] <LaserJock> I never use us.a.u.c though
[05:17] <sistpoty> bddebian: what language is that? c?
[05:18] <jaldhar> looks like haskell to me
[05:18] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I was going to say Klingon but apparantly not
[05:18] <ajmitch> jaldhar: ah, it looked functional, I didn't know what language though
[05:18] <sistpoty> jaldhar: no, haskell would be int -> int -> unsigned int ...
[05:18] <bddebian> ANy of you lispers?  http://pastebin.us/1815
[05:18] <bddebian> sistpoty: lisp generating C afaict
[05:18] <jaldhar> ajmitch: actually sistpoty is right
[05:19] <jaldhar> I bought a book on haskell but haven't actually got around to reading it yet
[05:20] <jaldhar> would ubuntu be interested in a package of seamonkey?
[05:20] <ajmitch> probably, if it's sane
[05:21] <ajmitch> I can't imagine it'd be a fun one to package
[05:21] <jaldhar> I'm packaging it for Debian and Linspire anyway so one more wouldn't hurt.
[05:21] <ajmitch> if you're getting it into debian it can just go into ubuntu anyway
[05:22] <sistpoty> bddebian: not quite sure, but try removing line 3?
[05:22] <jaldhar> ajmitch: ok.  Right now my package isn't fully policy compliant so I haven't uploaded it.  It's a real beast.
[05:22] <ajmitch> as I'd expect :)
[05:23] <crimsun> bddebian: yes, make it (defentry |hashCombine| (int int) (unsigned int "MYCOMBINE"))
[05:24] <crimsun> in fact, all three of those 'int's should be 'unsigned int's
[05:24] <bddebian> Hey did fix the first error on my own though.. :-)
[05:25] <sistpoty> oh, yes... crimsun (is right) -> true ;)
[05:25] <ajmitch> bddebian: sometimes it's easier to just test whatever comes to mind
[05:26] <bddebian> Well as you are probably already aware, I am pretty unsure of myself :-)
[05:26] <crimsun> hmm, coffee.
[05:26] <sistpoty> ajmitch: is this your approach to functional programming? :P
[05:26] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's just a local build, you can't break too much
[05:26] <ajmitch> sistpoty: it's my approach to development - try things & pick up the pieces later :)
[05:26] <bddebian> Functional?  What's functional about it, it's hideous :-)
[05:26] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:27] <sistpoty> oh... damn, I need to ping infinity for both bootstrapping fpc (all arches) and sbcl (two arches)... I'll do that after the WE *g*
[05:28] <jaldhar> bah it looks like many mirrors don't carry edgy
[05:28] <ajmitch> by the number of duplicates that get filed, malone either doesn't make it obvious for existing bugs, or people don't look
[05:29] <bddebian> @#$%%@#%
[05:30] <sistpoty> bddebian: is that brainfuck? ;)
[05:30] <bddebian> Feels like it ;-)
[05:30] <bddebian> No, they are .lisp files so I assume lisp
[05:31] <sistpoty> bddebian: I was referring to your comment "@#$%%@#%" ;)
[05:31] <bddebian> Oh, hehe
[05:31] <jaldhar> doh I was looking at a list of cd mirrors
[05:32] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[05:32] <ajmitch> 'night' sistpoty :)
[05:32] <bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
[05:36] <bddebian> Why do the i386 build logs never seem to show on buildd.debian.org?
[05:37] <ajmitch> because most people upload i386 binaries
[05:37] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:37] <ajmitch> and so they're not autobuilt
[05:37] <ajmitch> debian doesn't do source-only uploads like ubuntu
[05:37] <LaserJock> it's an interesting thing
[05:38] <bddebian> Well I can't believe that axiom actually builds in Debian
[05:38] <ajmitch> heh
[05:38] <ajmitch> people still filing bugs against hoary
[05:39] <ajmitch> I find it hard to believe they're running hoary, since they have zope2.9
[05:39] <bddebian> "built it myself".. ;-)
[05:40] <ajmitch> or grabbed from debian
[05:40] <bddebian> Aye
[05:41] <ajmitch> looks like they've got a mix of packages from all over the place
[05:42] <ajmitch> how annoying
[05:42] <LaserJock> yeah, LP should automatically grab their source.list and attach it to the bug report ;-)
[05:42] <ajmitch> I wish
[05:43] <bddebian> Heh
[05:43] <ajmitch> I'll get back to it later, have to go out now
[05:43] <bddebian> Hmm, this isn't good:
[05:43] <bddebian> Loading /axiom/axiom-20050901/obj/linux/interp/hash.o
[05:43] <bddebian> mem_value is undefined
[06:53] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:23] <Amaranth> is /etc/pam.d/common-auth a debian thing or a global thing?
[07:26] <StevenK> Debian, from what I remember.
[07:27] <Amaranth> fun
[07:27] <Amaranth> oh well, i'm making this program for edubuntu anyway
[07:33] <ajmitch> Amaranth: what do you need to play with pam for?
[07:40] <Amaranth> ajmitch: authenticating a user from a web interface
[07:41] <Amaranth> although i need to know if they're an sudo'er so maybe just using that would be good
[07:43] <ajmitch> how evil :)
[07:43] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:43] <Amaranth> got a better way? :)
[07:43] <ajmitch> you're using apache here?
[07:43] <Amaranth> nope, custom
[07:43] <ajmitch> thought so
[07:44] <ajmitch> what do you mean by authenticating user from the web interface?
[07:44] <ajmitch> just checking the username/password they supply against the system one?
[07:44] <Amaranth> the user has to be root or have sudo access to the machine for them to be able to use the web interface
[07:44] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:45] <ajmitch> checking username/password can be done simply from your app using the pam libs
[07:45] <Amaranth> you have to run as root for that to work
[07:45] <Amaranth> unless you have a magic file in /etc/pam.d/
[07:46] <ajmitch> wonderful
[07:46] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:46] <ajmitch> unix_chkpwd may help
[07:47] <ajmitch> though it's not meant to be called directly
[07:47] <Amaranth> gnome-screensaver's package has the magic file to put in /etc/pam.d/ that includes /etc/pam.d/common-auth
[07:47] <Amaranth> so i'm thinking it's the suggested way of doing things
[07:47] <ajmitch> generally, yes
[07:48] <ajmitch> it's not hard to put a file in there
[07:48] <Amaranth> the real problem is checking sudo access
[07:48] <ajmitch> since most of them just use the common files
[07:48] <ajmitch> ask pitti about that
[07:48] <Amaranth> pitti did the menu stuff?
[07:49] <ajmitch> he knows what's going on with sudo & what patches we carry that may make it easier
[07:57] <Amaranth> oh yay, the work is done for me there
[07:57] <Amaranth> use pam to make sure the user/pass is right then check to see if the user is in the admin group
[07:59] <Amaranth> now i can go to bed :)
[08:00] <ajmitch> assuming that they use sudo that way :)
[08:23] <DBO> Is here an acceptable place to ask for packaging help?
[08:26] <Gloubiboulga> DBO, yep, here :)
[08:27] <DBO> I decided checkinstall wasnt cutting dice for me, I wanted to start doing thing the right way, so for my first project I picked bonfire
[08:28] <DBO> its building and working fine when I dont try to make a proper deb out of it, but when i run dpkg-buildpackege I get this error:
[08:28] <DBO> No directories in update-desktop-database search path could be processed and updated.
[08:28] <DBO> and im not sure what to do about that
[08:30] <Gloubiboulga> /me tries to find an answer :)
[08:30] <DBO> my google-fu has failed me...
[08:31] <DBO> if its of any help, if I just do a ./configure, make, and make install it works fine, I am also using the new maintainers guide
[08:32] <Gloubiboulga> could you paste the whole dpkg-buildpackage output on pastebin?
[08:32] <DBO> sure
[08:33] <DBO> will the last 500 lines do or you want the whole thing?
[08:33] <Gloubiboulga> a few lines before it fails
[08:33] <Gloubiboulga> do you call dh_desktop in debian/rules?
[08:33] <DBO> http://pastebin.ca/96819
[08:34] <DBO> no
[08:38] <Gloubiboulga> google doesn't help me either, and I've never seen this error
[08:38] <DBO> im so close... I can taste the deb
[08:39] <DBO> is there any way to tell it not to bother with the apps menu?
[08:40] <Gloubiboulga> check with './configure --help'
[08:40] <Gloubiboulga> bbiab
[08:41] <DBO> that wont help me much though because the dpkg-buildpackage is just going to re-run that...
[08:45] <DBO> the command is being issues from the bonfire.spec file (well thats where its being found) I just commented it to see whats going to happen
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> DBO, comment it in data/Makefile.in
[08:51] <DBO> its not in there
[08:51] <DBO> its not part of the compile or make process
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> I have to leave, I'll be back later and check the sources
[08:52] <DBO> ok
[08:52] <DBO> wait
[08:52] <DBO> one last question
[08:53] <DBO> do you have to run dpkg-buldpackage as root!?
[08:53] <crimsun> for packaging purposes, yes, hence fakeroot.
[08:53] <DBO> Im using fakeroot, but update-desktop-database is still erroring out
[08:53] <crimsun> post your Debianised source package online somewhere so we can poke at debian/rules
[08:54] <crimsun> that error's not related to fakeroot
[08:54] <DBO> it hasnt quote gotten to the point of being a package =P
[08:54] <crimsun> doesn't really matter how far it has progressed if you want to resolve the dh_desktop issue
[08:55] <DBO> hrm, should dh_desktop be in my rules?
[08:55] <DBO> Im sorry, Im a first timer at this
[08:56] <crimsun> it should be, yes, but we need to find where update-desktop-database is being poked
[08:56] <DBO> its being poked in bonfire.spec
[08:56] <DBO> you want me to tar up the whole thing?
[08:57] <crimsun> ... why the .spec? Why is that even being poked?
[08:58] <DBO> all I know is thats why I managed to find the command
[08:58] <DBO> my debian/rules does not have a dh_desktop
[08:59] <crimsun> it's going to be quite difficult to assist unless you post the Debianised source package somewhere
[08:59] <DBO> there uhm... isnt one afaik?
[09:00] <crimsun> then what are you working with?
[09:00] <DBO> just the source I got off of the developers site
[09:01] <No1Viking> Have trouble with my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. Cant get OpenGL to work with hardware. At the moment it's emulated by software. Installed fglrx according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto and got the result as follows in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18672. Any good ideas?
[09:01] <crimsun> right, but didn't you create the debian/ infrastructure?
[09:01] <DBO> yes
[09:01] <crimsun> No1Viking: -> #ubuntu
[09:01] <DBO> dh_make and all that jazz
[09:01] <DBO> oh you wanna see the debian directory?
[09:01] <crimsun> DBO: so that's the Debianised source; have you generated the source package?
[09:01] <DBO> nooo
[09:01] <crimsun> the source package-> orig.tar.gz+dsc+diff.gz
[09:02] <DBO> uhm..
[09:02] <crimsun> ok, just tar up the whole shebang and post it somewhere.
[09:03] <DBO> hmmm, can I email it to you?
[09:03] <crimsun> only if you don't have Web space.
[09:03] <DBO> that would be an affirm
[09:03] <crimsun> crimsun at ubuntu dot com
[09:11] <DBO> im sorry, its gott be the rules file, I just dont understand it yet...
[09:12] <DBO> sent
[09:19] <DBO> erm, I didnt mean to send two files...
[09:21] <crimsun> (will check in a few minutes, on the phone presently)
[09:21] <DBO> sorry
[09:22] <DBO> I figured out part of whats going wrong (not that it will be much help for you) but I was wrong about the spec file, its doing this with install-data-hook...
[09:30] <DBO> you know what crimsun, im sure if I poke at this for the next week or so Ill eventually get it, I have a good idea where the error lay now, I just have to figure out what I am messing up, but I dont need to bother you for that...
[09:30] <DBO> thanks for everything though
[09:33] <crimsun> DBO: Gauvain was correct; look in data/Makefile.in
[09:34] <crimsun> lines 29[78]  according to my $COLUMNS
[09:34] <crimsun> DBO: those should be commented out, because Ubuntu does its own thing w/ dh_desktop in debian/rules
[09:35] <DBO> crimsun, ok, thank you, I will keep that in mind from now on =)
[09:35] <crimsun> np
[09:37] <DBO> erm...
[09:38] <DBO> what does 29[78]  notation mean?
[09:41] <Gloubiboulga> 297 and 298
[09:41] <DBO> hah...
[01:21] <Hobbsee> hi all
[01:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> wb Hobbsee
[01:22] <Hobbsee> hi Kamping_Kaiser :)
[01:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[02:17] <zul> did the data center fall off the face of the earth?
[02:18] <phanatic> zul: looks like
[02:20] <zul> grrr..
[02:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. sarge doesnt have -security in its vims syntax for changelogs eitehr *feels better for ubuntu*
[02:23] <tseng> I'm baffled why thats even worth a patch
[02:30] <ThiefOfBaghdad> heya MOTUs
[02:31] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[02:31] <Hobbsee> hi ThiefOfBaghdad
[02:31] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Hobbsee> hi
[02:31] <Hobbsee> yay!  i actually am a MOTU now :P
[02:34] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Hobbsee> do you any way to install Ubuntu Dapper without actually entering into the Desktop, i,e the old non GUI interface way.?
[02:34] <phanatic> ThiefOfBaghdad: alternate cd
[02:34] <Hobbsee> ThiefOfBaghdad: server install
[02:35] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Oops. So people who are installing for the first time on their systems have to undergo this slowness in installation is it?
[02:37] <StevenK> I haven't found the installation slow.
[02:37] <StevenK> I find Ubuntu installs in about the same time it'd take me to do a Debian install.
[02:38] <ThiefOfBaghdad> StevenK> nope. It does not even move after language settings on my dads ACER laptop
[02:39] <StevenK> What's the step after language settings?
[02:39] <StevenK> I can't recall the 7 steps or so of the Dapper installer.
[02:40] <ThiefOfBaghdad> i dunno since I have always done a dist-upgrade on my laptop :)
[02:41] <StevenK> The reason I can't recall is I have installed Dapper once. :-)
[02:41] <StevenK> And that was a play install in a VMware instance.
[02:41] <StevenK> Hobbsee: What are the steps, then? :-P
[02:42] <Hobbsee> StevenK: hmmm....
[02:42] <Hobbsee> language, country, keyboard, partitioning, timezone, set up new user, grub, reboot.
[02:43] <StevenK> Nicely done!
[02:43] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Hobbsee> which wiki you took it from?
[02:43] <Hobbsee> maybe timezone and new user is in the other order
[02:43] <Hobbsee> ThiefOfBaghdad: the wiki in my brain :P
[02:43] <StevenK> ThiefOfBaghdad: I'd suggest stracing the install since you have a live instance to work from.
[02:44] <ThiefOfBaghdad> StevenK> hmm
[02:52] <slomo> is someone a bit bored? i have a nice task... fixing texlive-bin to build :)
[02:53] <StevenK> slomo: Do you have a failure?
[02:53] <StevenK> Sigh.
[02:53] <StevenK> A log of the build failure
[02:53] <slomo> yes, in LP which is down at unfortunately :P
[02:53] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:53] <slomo> one moment, let me paste it somewhere
[02:54] <StevenK> LP's down?
[02:54] <slomo> StevenK: http://pastebin.ca/97142
[02:54] <slomo> damn, a part is missing
[02:55] <StevenK> Whee
[02:55] <StevenK> ../../../../../TeX/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/pdftoepdf.cc:1000: error: cannot convert 'UGooString*' to 'char*' in assignment
[02:55] <slomo> http://pastebin.ca/97143
[02:55] <slomo> that's the complete one
[02:55] <slomo> the same error a dozen times
[02:56] <slomo> builds fine in debian for some reason but not for us
[02:56] <StevenK> Interesting.
[02:57] <Arbiter> uhm... someone updated mono packages... :)
[02:57] <slomo> Arbiter: yes, me... why?
[02:57] <slomo> StevenK: will you look at it? :)
[02:58] <Arbiter> slomo, good.. i was waiting for 1.1.16 packages :D
[02:58] <Arbiter> even if it's marked as "beta"
[02:59] <Arbiter> is launchpad down?
[02:59] <slomo> Arbiter: the previous ones were more "beta" ;)
[02:59] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: yes
[02:59] <StevenK> slomo: I suspect it may require some knowledge of the codebase, but I can try.
[02:59] <Arbiter> aw
[02:59] <Arbiter> slomo, hehe :)
[02:59] <Arbiter> slomo, did you give a look to libgimp-cil?
[02:59] <Arbiter> with libgimp2.0-dev seems to place things in right place
[03:00] <tuxmaniac> ubuntu.com also down?
[03:00] <slomo> StevenK: i guess UGooString comes from poppler
[03:00] <Arbiter> tuxmaniac, seems down too :(
[03:00] <tuxmaniac> ugh! :(
[03:01] <slomo> StevenK: so maybe it only needs a bit of porting to a new poppler API or something
[03:01] <StevenK> Maybe. It also involves poking poppler to, then,
[03:01] <StevenK> s/,$/./
[03:02] <Arbiter> slomo, otherwise i can't test/use the updated packages :P
[03:02] <Arbiter> s/otherwise//g
[03:03] <Arbiter> (i mean mono)
[03:03] <Arbiter> 3d acceleration doesn't work well in edgy so i reinstalled dapper :P
[03:04] <slomo> StevenK: hm, i guess i'll look at it now... i found a patch :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: yeah, known problem.  fix it :P
[03:04] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, i don't have the required knowledge to make a patch that works :P
[03:04] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: more than one patch :P
[03:04] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, and i can't figure where's the problem :P
[03:04] <Arbiter> mesa? X? ati? libGL ati implementation?
[03:05] <Arbiter> :)
[03:05] <Hobbsee> it's borked here too, which doenst mean it's ati specific.
[03:05] <StevenK> slomo: Heh
[03:05] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, yeah but you told about low framerates
[03:05] <Arbiter> here it's only a render freeze after 6-7 secs
[03:06] <Arbiter> s/after/every
[03:06] <Arbiter> :)
[03:35] <slomo> StevenK: ok, fixed :)
[03:36] <Hobbsee> slomo: yay :)
[03:37] <slomo> Hobbsee: good luck :P
[03:38] <Hobbsee> slomo: :p
[03:39] <StevenK> slomo: Nice.
[03:49] <slomo> now someone only needs to fix the servers :P
[03:49] <ajmitch> they're "working on it"
[03:50] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:50] <ajmitch> hello
[03:53] <ajmitch> hello StevenK
[04:01] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: do you know how much bandwidth a typical ssh session will use in an hour?
[04:01] <Hobbsee> or in whatever time quantitiy?
[04:01] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Not a great deal.
[04:02] <StevenK> ssh is very low bandwidth, and can be made lower by using -C
[04:02] <Hobbsee> StevenK: that's what i thought.  wonder why dad's whinging about the bandwith having gone up so high.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> what's -C do?
[04:02] <StevenK> Compresses the stream over the wire
[04:02] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: if it just sits there, it'll consume just about nothing.  If you transfer a lot of data, you'll obviously use lots of bandwidth.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: right, yep
[04:03] <StevenK> There's a keep-alive, but that's like next to nothing every five minutes
[04:03] <Hobbsee> i didnt think edgy had *that* many updates, although i upgraded twice.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> StevenK: "oh noes, a packet every five minutes.  I'm sure the payload is, like, a whopping 20 bytes or so too!"
[04:04] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:04] <StevenK> "Plus the header, that makes it 68 bytes! I'm doomed!"
[04:05] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I'd look at other things than SSH for stuff which eats bandwidth.  Sure you or your father hasn't been listening to web radio or something?
[04:05] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: could well be, but i doubt it.  edgy updates would be the likely cause, or uploading stuff to the repos.  probably the former.
[04:06] <Hobbsee> (or massive windows updates, of course0
[04:06] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:07] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[04:07] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[04:07] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: edgy updates would count for a bit, I guess, yes.
[04:12] <bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
[04:19] <Hobbsee> sigh.
[04:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, at least you come back :|, ubuntu.c hasnt afaik
[04:31] <Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: heh
[04:33] <^ohoel> someone carpet bombed the datacenter area
[04:35] <zealot> anyone know what happened to *ubuntu.com?
[04:36] <zealot> as in why it is down
[04:44] <Cornellius> Someone spilled coffee on the keyboard
[04:45] <bddebian> Coffee?  I heard it was Whiskey? ;-P
[04:46] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:46] <Cornellius> Yeah HIC wathever
[04:46] <bddebian> Well crud, if I can't pull source, I can't do any work :-(
[04:47] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hehe, yeah, that's what i thoght.  and even if you can do that, you certainly cant upload
[04:49] <slomo> bddebian: you can get the source from a mirror
[04:49] <bddebian> I guess I could work on axiom some more but I really need some help.. :-(
[04:49] <Hobbsee> bddebian: what's up with axiom?  i dont remember
[04:50] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Well I fix some C bugs but then one of the object files doesn't get produced it seems but I don't get any errors and I can't figure out why :-(
[04:50] <bddebian> And I don't know shit about lisp..
[04:50] <Hobbsee> bddebian: right, great
[04:50] <bddebian> Not that I know shit about anything..
[04:51] <Hobbsee> sure you do
[04:51] <slomo> bddebian: i gave up on axiom in breezy or dapper because of that :P i had more interesting things to do
[04:51] <bddebian> slomo: Ack, I was just going to ask you for help :-)
[04:53] <Cornellius> bddebian ?
[04:54] <bddebian> ??
[04:55] <Hobbsee> [whisper]  psst...bddebian...is revu down?  we could probably do some reviewing, you know [/whisper\
[04:55] <Hobbsee> [whisper]  psst...bddebian...is revu down?  we could probably do some reviewing, you know [/whisper]
[04:57] <bddebian> We?  What, do you have a mouse in your pocket? ;-P
[04:57] <Hobbsee> bddebian: well, we're both motu's now
[04:58] <bddebian> You and your mouse? :-)
[04:59] <Hobbsee> bddebian: no, you and i, you nut!  :P
[05:31] <Cornellius> bddebian: Though bddebian was some sort of distro based on debian
[05:32] !alindeman:*! Services problems.  We're looking into it
[05:45] <Enverex> crimsun, Are you there?
[05:51] <hub> I can't seems to be able to connect to the archive
[05:51] <hub> am I the only one with the problem?
[05:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[05:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> u.c is down
[05:53] <hub> ok
[05:55] <Enverex> hmm
[05:55] <Enverex> E: uade_2.02-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file edgy
[05:56] <Gloubiboulga> lintian on ubuntu <edgy soen't know about edgy
[05:56] <Gloubiboulga> s/soen/doesn
[05:57] <Enverex> hmm, odd
[06:25] <Enverex> What's the command for uploading to REVU?
[06:34] <zul> did everything blow up?
[06:35] <Enverex> TOPIC!
[06:35] <Enverex> oh, wrong channel
[06:35] <Enverex> TOPIC! (of #ubuntu)
[06:36] <Gloubiboulga> Enverex, 'dput *source.changes' for a REVU upload
[06:36] <slomo> zul: didn't you ask this a few hours ago already? :)
[06:37] <Enverex> Gloubiboulga, Yeah, worked it out a little while ago, heh
[06:37] <zul> yeah but i thought someone might know whats going on?
[06:37] <slomo> Gloubiboulga, Enverex: dput revu *.changes... the default is ubuntu
[06:37] <Gloubiboulga> Enverex, I'm a bit slow today ;)
[06:37] <Gloubiboulga> slomo, right
[06:38] <Enverex> Yeah, I set revu to default in the config
[06:38] <Enverex> Although no-ones looked at my uploads from last week yet, heh
[06:38] <zul> meh...ill be back later
[06:39] <slomo> Enverex: that's normal unfortunately as everybody is busy with other stuff and there are far too many uploads to review on revu... the easiest to get something done is poking someone here to look at it ;)
[06:41] <Enverex> hmm
[06:44] <Enverex> So, anyone want to have a look at one of my uploads then? heh
[06:51] <Enverex> You have to be kidding me
[06:51] <Enverex> I just got banned form #ubuntu
[06:52] <Enverex> *from even
[07:03] <Enverex> meh
[07:26] <theCore> whoa, that blog entry is quite interesting: http://sztywny.titaniumhosting.com/2006/07/23/stiff-asks-great-programmers-answers/
[07:27] <theCore> It fits just right my thinking about great programmers
[08:07] <theCore> hmm... I should stop posting things in the wrong channels, sorry guys
[08:41] <nexu> whats wrong with ubuntu.com today ?
[08:48] <nixternal> nexu: primary and backup power failures at the data center
[08:49] <zul> heh...must be in kanata
[08:50] <nixternal> somthing big had to happen for primary and backup to go out
[08:50] <nixternal> and most all of the guys are probably at lugradio live
[09:11] <zul> hmm...quite dead
[09:15] <Sp4rKy> hi
[09:19] <MacRules78> Is this a suitable channel to ask help with ubuntu...?
[09:19] <Sp4rKy> #ubuntu
[09:20] <phanatic> evening
[09:44] <phanatic> yay, the servers are up and running :)
[09:46] <zul> almost
[09:46] <slomo> bazaar.launchpad.net seems to be still down
[09:46] <zul> yay i can slack and read planet again
[09:47] <tseng> ubuntu planet is pretty yawn
[09:47] <zul> yeah but i still wanna slack off
[10:29] <Sp4rKy> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[10:29] <Sp4rKy> debian/rules:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk: No such file or directory
[10:30] <Sp4rKy> i've this error
[10:30] <Sp4rKy> whereas i've cdbs installed :/
[10:31] <crimsun> cdbs doesn't list debhelper or autotools-dev as Depends; they're Recommends
[10:31] <crimsun> (i.e., install them)
[10:32] <Sp4rKy> they are ...
[10:33] <crimsun> they are what?
[10:33] <Sp4rKy> installed
[10:33] <crimsun> what's giving you those errors?
[10:34] <crimsun> rather, when are you getting them?
[10:34] <Sp4rKy> sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc ...
[10:34] <Sp4rKy> during pbuilder process
[10:34] <crimsun> well, do you build-depend on cdbs?
[10:35] <crimsun> you'd get those errors when cdbs is not installed, which in the pbuilder scenario is when you don't build-depend on cdbs
[10:38] <Sp4rKy> crimsun, i've addedd cdbs to BD ... wait pbuilding
[10:39] <Sp4rKy> same errors :/
[10:39] <crimsun> does your package use debian/control.in ?
[10:40] <crimsun> if so, it needs to be added there, not debian/control
[10:40] <Sp4rKy> crimsun, wait , i've done a mistake
[10:45] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[10:45] <crimsun> hi Toadstool
[10:45] <Toadstool> hi crimsun
[11:21] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool, crimsun
[11:21] <Toadstool> hey bddebian !
[11:22] <crimsun> hi bddebian
[11:23] <bddebian> So crimsun, you bored? ;-)
[11:23] <crimsun> no, I'm struggling with a gnome->kde conversion atm
[11:23] <bddebian> Oh
[11:25] <bddebian> Laser_away: I talked to panthera today.  If scilab doesn't change it's licensing they are probably going to drop it from Debian
[11:26] <crimsun> what's the current licensing?
[11:27] <bddebian> crimsun: It's non-free
[11:27] <bddebian> crimsun: And apparently it has been depending on libreadline for ages and no one caught it :-)
[11:28] <crimsun> well it still can be demoted to our multiverse
[11:29] <Toadstool> grah, wrong keyboard shortcut... :)
[11:29] <crimsun> though that will take much tomfoolery, since if it's ripped out of Debian it'll be autosynced out of Edgy, too.
[11:29] <bddebian> It's already in multivers afaik
[11:29] <slomo> crimsun: depends... if it's non-free code linking against GPLed libreadline i don't think it will be possible
[11:29] <crimsun> oh, excellent.
[11:29] <slomo> (to have it in multiverse)
[11:30] <bddebian> slomo: Aye, that is the problem
[11:30] <crimsun> yeah, I can see that being the route.
[11:30] <slomo> ok, so nothing for multiverse as well as it's a license violation
[11:30] <crimsun> no sweat off our backs in any case.
[11:33] <bddebian> Why would a desktop file for kde do exec=pymol %f but for gnome do  exec=pymol?
[11:33] <crimsun> one of them is incorrect
[11:34] <bddebian> Well, it shouldn't have seperate .desktop files to begin with :-)


[07:08] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <fgimenez> good morning
[09:00] <liuxg> dholbach, sorry, my network is not stable. did you see my question?
[09:00] <dholbach> liuxg: no, I didn't
[09:00] <liuxg> dholbach, do you if there is anyway to create a ramdisk in snappy? for the webcam example, I want to capture the image into memory instead of beng into the disk, which is a slow operation.
[09:00] <dholbach> I have no idea
[09:01] <dholbach> maybe lool or asac or somebody else knows?
[09:01] <liuxg> dholbach, the above was my question. alright! thanks!
[09:02] <liuxg> dholbach, lool asac I have tried to create a ramdisk in the code, but "mount" seems not successful.
[09:02] <dholbach> I'm sorry -I have no idea
[09:03] <liuxg> dholbach, I have posted it to the mailinglist, hopefully, there is a reply for it :)
[09:03] <dholbach> ok cool
[09:25] <asac> liuxg: in the webcam code? you need special permissions for that i assume due to sandboxing. check syslog for errors related
[09:31] <Guest23806> sergiusens: /Volumes/
[11:15]  * Chipaca quietly puts the kettle on
[12:29] <kyrofa> Good morning everyone
[12:50]  * davmor2 changes Chipaca nick to polly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Put_the_Kettle_On)
[13:08] <liuxg> lool, ping
[13:08] <liuxg> kyrofa, ping
[13:08] <kyrofa> liuxg, pong
[13:09] <liuxg> kyrofa, I just saw that you got the fix for the broken symlink. does it mean that I can pull the latest source to get it working?
[13:10] <kyrofa> liuxg, if you clone the github repo and use the 1.x branch, yes, that will work like you're used to AND have the bugfix. It'll be officially released soon as well
[13:11] <liuxg> kyrofa, ok. then I wait for the fix. by the way, I recently tried the license example, and I found it not working. https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1527453
[13:11] <kyrofa> liuxg, don't quote me on this, but I think that's not implemented yet
[13:12] <kyrofa> liuxg, but I'll look into it a bit further once I finish backporting a few more things for 1.x
[13:13] <liuxg> kyrofa, OK. thanks! I just tried it since it was documented there. By the way, do you if there is any way to mount a ramdisk in snappy system? I find that I/O operation is slow, and I want to use a ramdisk for my webcam picture capturing.
[13:16] <kyrofa> liuxg, not sure about that one
[13:17] <liuxg> kyrofa, it is OK. thanks for helping
[13:18] <kyrofa> liuxg, can you explain the use-case a little more though?
[13:19] <liuxg> kyrofa, in the current example https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/tree/master/examples/webcam-webui, it saves the picture into disk every 10 second. currently, I implement a client to access the picture to display it on my ubuntu phone. I want to have higher frequency. The I/O to disk is slow compared to the ramdisk.
[13:20] <liuxg> kyrofa, a file in the memory is better in this sense. the sample uses fswebcam to capture the picture.
[13:21] <kyrofa> liuxg, ah, okay. Agreed that with the way this works putting the picture in memory would be faster, but there are better ways to accomplish what you're wanting without requiring it
[13:22] <liuxg> kyrofa, really? I am all your ears :) what is the better solution?
[13:23] <kyrofa> liuxg, first of all, I'm assuming that since the webcam demo saves to a directory it does not display video. You need to refresh to see a new picture?
[13:23] <kyrofa> (I've not run it myself)
[13:24] <liuxg> kyrofa, in its way, it just captures the picture every 10 seconds. In my own implementation, I can initiation a http request to get a picture, and I can control the frequency to get the picture. it
[13:24] <kyrofa> liuxg, gotcha, so YOU want video
[13:25] <sturmflut> Why not directly take the webcam picture inside the HTTP request, and never store it
[13:25] <liuxg> kyrofa, yeah, some kind of the that effect, like home security though frame rates not so high.
[13:25] <kyrofa> sturmflut, quit stealing my thunder!
[13:25] <kyrofa> liuxg, no streaming video ever caches each frame anywhere, not even in a ramdisk
[13:26] <liuxg> sturmflut, the things fswebcam app captures picture into a file. that is what i know. if it captures into memory, that is definitely better.
[13:26] <kyrofa> liuxg, you should probably be accessing the camera directly
[13:26] <sturmflut> liuxg: The manpage for fswebcam says 'The PNG or JPEG image can be sent to stdio using the filename "-"'
[13:26] <liuxg> kyrofa, yes, you are right. video streaming is another option. vlc could be one for the purpose. I have not tried it yet.
[13:27] <kyrofa> liuxg, grab a frame from it, and fire the frame off via some UDP-based protocol, e.g. rtp
[13:27] <sturmflut> So have your HTTP server call it like that and pipe the output
[13:28] <liuxg> kyrofa, hmm, I have not tried it yet, and I do not know how it goes.
[13:28] <kyrofa> liuxg, if you really want to use fswebcam, sturmflut's suggestion would work as well
[13:29] <kyrofa> liuxg, but using a ramdisk with your use-case is layering hacks upon hacks
[13:30] <liuxg> kyrofa, it seems that "mount" is not supported due to security. http://paste.ubuntu.com/14127715/
[13:31] <kyrofa> liuxg, indeed, that doesn't surprise me
[13:31] <liuxg> sturmflut, thanks for your tip. in that case, how can the command look like?
[13:32] <kyrofa> liuxg, you can exec fswebcam from your app and setup the pipes in code if you want it all in the project rather than a script
[13:34] <liuxg> kyrofa, yeah, I can do it in golang to exec fswebcam
[13:34] <kyrofa> liuxg, that would probably be the slickest way
[13:35] <kyrofa> liuxg, but you can also write your server to read from stdin and pipe them together using the shell as normal
[13:35] <kyrofa> liuxg, `command1 | command2`
[13:37] <liuxg> kyrofa, sounds interesting though I have never tried it.
[13:38] <lool> liuxg: pong
[13:39] <liuxg> lool, thanks. yeah, just now, discussed with kyrofa about whether it is possible to make a ramdisk in a snap app.
[13:40] <lool> it is possible, but if you need the mount() syscall, you'll need an unconfined snap or a custom apparmor policy
[13:40] <lool> you can create ramdisks without the mount syscall though
[13:40] <lool> (or if you need chroot())
[13:41] <liuxg> lool, how can I do that? currently, in my script, I do it like http://paste.ubuntu.com/14127715/, it gives me the error.
[13:42] <liuxg> lool, how to create a custom policy for an app? it would be good to have an example for it.  thanks
[13:42] <lool> liuxg: there are examples, but I'm trying to find a recent one given the syntax has changed a bit in the last months
[13:45] <liuxg> lool, this example seems to have the one, but it is not based on the snapcraft http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-examples/files/head:/framework-template/. By the way, if an app uses custom apparmor policy, can the app be uploaded to store?
[13:46] <lool> liuxg: right exactly
[13:46] <lool> liuxg: typically an app with a custom policy is going to trigger manual review, so we'll need some way to audit that it's legit to use these permissions
[13:46] <liuxg> lool, I do not know how the syntax looks like in the snapcraft syntax.
[13:47] <lool> liuxg: in snapcraft, you basically have the package.yaml in the main snapcraft.yaml file
[13:47] <lool> liuxg: basically snapcraft.yaml contains the template copied into meta/package.yaml before snappy build
[13:47] <liuxg> lool, so, the syntax for them are the same?
[13:48] <lool> liuxg: well most of the package.yaml is expressed in a subset of the snapcraft.yaml -- snapcraft.yaml also lists e.g. parts
[13:48] <liuxg> lool, for my case, I need to customize a file like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-examples/view/head:/framework-template/meta/framework-policy/seccomp/policygroups/client, add the mount system call, right?
[13:49] <lool> liuxg: yes
[13:49] <lool> liuxg: if you're confident this is the only thing, you can go ahead and do that; if you need to debug, there are snappy-security tools to help you do this (or look in dmesg); if you want to get your app running first, and then tune the permissions, you can set it to unconfined
[13:50] <liuxg> lool, do you have a complete example for custom security policy based on snapcraft? I think a lot of developers are interested to know this.
[13:50] <lool> liuxg: not handy
[13:51] <liuxg> lool, by the way, how to set an app to "unconfined" in snapcraft.yaml file?
[13:51] <lool> liuxg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lool/+junk/quagga-snap/files is a snapcraft based snap which sets custom caps (but no custom apparmor policy)
[13:51] <kyrofa> liuxg, remember that anything with custom security policies will require manual review
[13:51] <lool> liuxg: instead of "networking", put "unconfined" there
[13:53] <liuxg> kyrofa, thanks for reminding that. lool just mentioned that.
[13:54] <liuxg> lool, do you mean that we can change the "networking" there to "unconfined", then it is done?
[13:54] <liuxg> lool, I mean this is the file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lool/+junk/quagga-snap/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml
[13:55] <lool> liuxg: this is just to point you the spot where caps are set
[13:55] <lool> liuxg: you can remove all of networking, network-admin etc. and just list unconfined
[13:56] <liuxg> lool, I know. the snap still uses the default security template, right? for custom one, we need to define something like "unconfined"
[13:56] <sturmflut> liuxg: I just did it for fun, but it can even be solved in one line of bash
[13:56] <sturmflut> while /bin/true; do (echo -ne "HTTP/1.1 200 OK\nContent-type: image/jpeg\n\n"; fswebcam -) | nc -l 12345; done
[13:57] <sturmflut> With a proper version of netcat you can even avoid the short period required to re-open the socket
[13:58] <liuxg> sturmflut, sounds an interesting hack. do you try this on your destkop?
[13:58] <sturmflut> liuxg: On my notebook
[14:00] <liuxg> sturmflut, I have been trying the example on my RaspBerry pi. it may not have a display yet. Anyway, it is good to see it works. I will try to your way to do it in the code.
[14:00] <sturmflut> liuxg: It is pretty slow, fswebcam takes a long time to fetch the picture each time
[14:01] <lool> liuxg: unconfined is a template which means give me all permissions
[14:01] <liuxg> sturmflut, it depends on the resolution as well.
[14:01] <lool> liuxg: if you want your own template, you can't use caps; rather you'll have to pass a .apparmor and a .seccomp file under your meta/ dir
[14:01] <lool> liuxg: but I haven't done that in snapcraft myself
[14:01] <lool> so I can't provide a recent example
[14:03] <liuxg> lool, thanks. so if I want to make my snap an unconfined, I just do sth like http://paste.ubuntu.com/14127918/, it should be fine, right?
[14:03] <lool> liuxg: yeah, seems about right
[14:04] <liuxg> lool, perfect. It is good to know. I have been reading Snappy Ubuntu Core - Application Developer Manual 15.04, but it is not so clear to me at all :)
[14:05] <lool> liuxg: ah, perhaps we need to improve some sections then  :-)
[14:06] <lool> liuxg: if you would like to suggest changes, we'd be happy to take them; there is definitely room for improvement
[14:06] <liuxg> lool, in fact, more working examples will be very beneficial to the developers. Sometimes, it is hard to explain without examples. I have fed back some problems in the documents, and they are corrected!
[14:08] <liuxg> lool, debugging is important for developing snaps. It would be good to have more contents to show how to debug security issues.
[14:09] <liuxg> lool, from developers point of view, it would be good to have a graphic tools to generate a useful snapcraft.yaml file. that would be very useful.
[14:11] <lool> ack; there are specific tools to help debugging security issues
[14:11] <lool> "Security policy debugging commands reference" in the manual
[14:13] <liuxg> lool, in fact, in the ubuntu phone development, I also met the same problem. the log does not say the missing caps. it is hard to interpret the the messages there. I would expect a clear messaging like "networking is missing in your app".
[14:14] <lool> liuxg: right, fair point
[14:15] <lool> the latest version for snappy tries to make suggestions, but it's never perfect
[14:16] <liuxg> lool, in fact, android is doing this way and it is very easy to debug. For us, it is just a kind of try and try.
[14:17] <liuxg> lool, it could be possible that an app grant all of the caps just purely want to make it work. In fact, maybe some of them are not needed at all.


[03:53] <ruben231> hi guys
[05:58] <Iapetus> Hello!
[05:58] <Iapetus> bastebin for wads of text right?
[05:59] <Iapetus> I'm trying to set up a L4D2 ubuntu server, I have most of it correct but I'm missing something and confused
[06:03] <lifeless> pastebin, yes
[06:03] <Iapetus> anyone alive in here?
[06:03] <Iapetus> http://pastebin.com/NcrcHJC7
[06:03] <Iapetus> there it is
[06:09] <Iapetus> I need to add my steam user ID to the srcds_run file don't I?
[06:09] <Iapetus> and pass
[06:09] <Iapetus> right?
[06:09] <Fieldy> what
[06:09] <Iapetus> what
[06:10] <Fieldy> it's a proprietary app last i knew of, consider asking their own support
[06:11] <lifeless> Iapetus: I don't know anything about running L4D2 servers, sorry; it is unlikely that folk here will know, because it isn't open source.
[06:11] <lifeless> Iapetus: I would look on the steampowered forums
[06:11] <Iapetus> well balls, thanks, i'll go hunting
[06:13] <lifeless> Iapetus: you might try the -debug option the program recommends
[06:15] <Iapetus> yup, saw that in something I googled a bit ago, required a plugin of some sort. Didn't get to it yet. Also bugger no sticky on the steampowered about ubuntu! BOOO
[06:22] <Neytiri> i am having a issue getting my bind server to start getting the error: permission denied on opening the config files
[06:47] <overrider> Hello. I am on 10.04, how do i get a more recent version of php on my server? Is there some repo i can without fear of breakage?
[07:00] <Neytiri> apt-get install php5
[07:18] <overrider> Not quite the newest php5
[12:10] <Quebert> Morning everyone
[12:31] <[twisti]> hey, when i log into my ubuntu lts 12.04, i get this: *** /dev/md2 will be checked for errors at next reboot *** for all my partitions. but i just sudo reboot'ed, and it just rebooted in the normal time, and still says that.
[12:32] <[twisti]> the answer at http://askubuntu.com/questions/182804/12-04-indicates-filesystem-check-on-next-boot-but-never-does-one sounds sensible, but im worried that the fsck will sit there with something like "found errors, want me to fix them? y/n"
[12:32] <[twisti]> its a headless server, so that would effectively brick it
[12:38] <maxb> Do you have a reason to distrust the system boot scripts that much
[12:38] <maxb> ?
[12:39] <[twisti]> none at all
[12:39] <[twisti]> but it doesnt say anywhere that fsck at boot time is non interactive
[12:40] <[twisti]> before i brick our server id like a better reason to assume it will run without interaction than "maybe we'll get lucky"
[12:42] <[twisti]> in my experience, things that check hdds ask for user input if they find anything out of the usual
[12:42] <[twisti]> i have no reason to assume that fsck is any different
[12:46] <Hoffa_> need help with an openfiler OS krasch
[12:49] <Hoffa_> hello
[12:49] <Hoffa_> need help
[12:49] <Hoffa_> #openfiler
[12:59] <Hoffa_> is there anyone who knows anything about mdadm
[13:59] <claco> morning. I'm looking for the right place to report issues with a real live ubuntu.com servers.
[15:06] <syncsys_> Can any one tell a package / app for getting network stats/ speed for individual ports numbers . (it would be much  better if it would be web based)?
[15:59] <Quest> can anyone tell why in iptraf in port 80 (breakdown by ports) the "in" is always zero and the "out" at bottom shows speed stats for download and for upload as well. on other strange thing. its showing download and upload . both speeds in "out"  and  "in" in is  0 ..  ?
[17:05] <Quest> anyone home?
[18:33] <X-ian> I need to stop postfix from delivering mail temporarily while still accepting incoming mails
[18:49] <geofft> hallyn: (or anyone else) Is there current work on libtpms + qemu packaging?
[18:50] <Quest> i cannot connect to freenx server by nx client. it quites at establishing display.
[18:51] <geofft> ppa:serge-hallyn/tpm is kinda old. (Also some parts of this landed in upstream qemu very recently)
[18:54] <elnur> anyone using ksplice? if yes, how's the experience?
[20:54] <NUKEESIMONHD> dracula
[21:01] <Quest> for LAN file sharing for Linux as server and windows as most clients.  simple sftp:/ip  from windows would be suffice (provied every user has an acccount in the server and a home folder) ? or an ftp server is needed? 2. what is fast and how much generally, sftp of ftp?
[21:15] <RoyK> Quest: if   you want to share data between a linux server and windows clients, use samba
[21:15] <RoyK> !samba | Quest
[21:18] <Quest> RoyK,  samba cant give acces over wan internet
[21:18] <Quest> we need that
[21:19] <Quest> what different is vsftpd from ftp over openssh server?
[21:19] <RoyK> security
[21:19] <RoyK> traditional ftp sends passwords in cleartext
[21:19] <RoyK> you really don't want that
[21:19] <RoyK> just setup ssh and have the clients use filezilla
[21:20] <Quest> vsftpd and  ftp over ssh is  same underneath.    s ftp.
[21:20] <Quest> ya that what i meant
[21:20] <RoyK> no
[21:20] <RoyK> with ftp over ssh, sshd controls the business
[21:20] <geofft> "sftp" is a misnomer, it involves no FTP at all.
[21:21] <RoyK> with vsftpd, you can choose between traditional plaintext ftp or ftp over ssl
[21:21] <geofft> You might be thinking of "ftps", which is to ftp what https is to http.
[21:21] <geofft> sftp is an SSH thing with no relation to FTP servers or FTP clients
[21:21] <geofft> although many FTP clients also, independently, happen to support SFTP too
[21:21] <Quest> hm
[21:21] <RoyK> Quest: just setup ssh and forget about the ftp server
[21:22] <RoyK> Quest: then setup rssh if you want to limit the clients' access to other parts of the system
[21:23] <Quest> sftp is bascially ftp over ssl and file transfer over ssh is on 22 and does the same as ftp
[21:23] <Quest> right?
[21:23] <maxb> sftp is not really ftp over ssl
[21:23] <RoyK> Quest: no, sftp is the built-in ftp-like thing in ssh
[21:24] <geofft> SSH doesn't involve SSL.
[21:24] <Pici> SFTP != FTPS
[21:24]  * RoyK hands out popcorn
[21:25] <geofft> (I kind of wish they'd picked a different name for sftp.)
[21:26] <Quest> whats the difference b/w ftp server like vsftpd and ftp of ssh (i typed sftp:// for access over ssh)
[21:26] <Quest> confusing
[21:26] <Quest> and whats the advantage of an ftp server ls vsftpd
[21:27] <Quest> 3. how to restrict users not going outside their /home dir if ftp over ssh is used.
[21:27] <RoyK> 23:22 < RoyK> Quest: then setup rssh if you want to limit the clients' access to other parts of the system
[21:28] <geofft> You can restrict users to just running sftp-server as the target command, I believe.
[21:28] <geofft> (I'm not familiar with rssh, but it sounds likely to work too)
[21:28] <RoyK> we use it for 17k users at work
[21:29] <Quest> RoyK,  rssh? whats that. similar to open ssh?
[21:29] <RoyK> Quest: try man rssh first, please
[21:29] <Quest> RoyK,  no manual. please inform
[21:29] <RoyK> then install it
[21:30] <Quest> geofft,  any ftp server will do like vsftpd?
[21:30] <Quest> RoyK,  is it just an ssh server like open ssh server is?
[21:30] <Quest> y/n
[21:31] <Quest> rssh is a restricted shell, used as a login shell, that allows users to perform only scp, sftp, cvs,
[21:31] <geofft> Quest: I'm not familiar with vsftpd, I haven't used it.
[21:31] <Quest> geofft,  but you meant an sftp server?
[21:31] <RoyK> Quest: http://bit.ly/Z0jxk1
[21:31] <geofft> Quest: The SFTP server is part of the SSH server
[21:32] <Quest> RoyK,  rssh is a restricted shell, used as a login shell, that allows users to perform only scp, sftp, cvs,
[21:32] <geofft> Quest: If you want to run SFTP (instead of FTPS), you don't need a separate FTP / FTPS server
[21:32] <Pici> SFTP is poorly named. It is not an FTP server, although many things that function as FTP client are able to connect to it if they have the proper support.
[21:33] <geofft> Quest: It sounds like it is worthwhile for you to do some googling about SFTP and securing SSH, or about FTPS
[21:33] <geofft> Quest: If you intend to deploy this across the WAN, you should be very confident you understand the security of what you're deploying
[21:33] <Quest> Pici,  oh. so sftp is just file transefer over ssh?
[21:33] <Pici> FTPS is horrible and no one should use it.
[21:33] <RoyK> Quest: if your users have ssh login access, they can access anything they are given access to, also for file transfer
[21:33] <RoyK> Quest: if your users only need file transfer, rssh is good
[21:33] <Pici> Quest: essentially.
[21:34] <geofft> Quest: I don't think the scattered advice of folks on an IRC channel is sufficient for setting up a secure file server.
[21:34] <RoyK> geofft: I don't think FUD is any better :P
[21:35] <geofft> Sure. I'm not trying to spread FUD -- there are good ways to learn about this
[21:35] <geofft> And they're all reasonable for being in a good position to set up a server.
[21:35] <Quest> RoyK,  doesnt an sftp server like vsftpd restricts users to get out of their /home dirs by default?
[21:35] <geofft> I'm just pointing out that IRC is a bad way.
[21:35] <RoyK> Quest: no, rssh does
[21:35] <Pici> Quest: vsftpd is not an SFTP server.
[21:35] <Quest> Pici,  what is it then?
[21:35] <Quest> Pici,  its an ftps server theN?
[21:35] <geofft> vsftpd is an FTP or FTPS server
[21:35] <RoyK> Quest: but if your users have ssh login access already, they can get whatever they can access out of there by other means
[21:35] <Quest> oh
[21:36] <Pici> Quest: what geofft said.
[21:36] <geofft> Oh, I guess the fact that "vsftpd" contains "sftp" in its name is also confusing :-(
[21:36] <RoyK> Quest: so, please, tell us, do your users have ssh login access?
[21:36] <Quest> ok. 2nd last question. can windows explorer get sftp and ftps dirs ?
[21:36] <geofft> Windows Explorer cannot.
[21:37] <RoyK> Quest: no, but filezilla can
[21:37] <geofft> Frankly there are few good solutions for Windows file access across a WAN
[21:37] <Pici> Quest: fyi, getting connected to an FTPS server if you are behind a corporate firewall is hell.
[21:37] <geofft> I suspect SMB will work as well as anything. You could also try using WebDAV over https, but performance is very poor on Windows
[21:37] <RoyK> geofft: well. SMB2 works well over a closed WAN
[21:37] <RoyK> over the internet - wouldn't dare it
[21:38] <Quest> and last question. 1. I need WAn and LAn access for users, 2. i will not give users a login to console. just make their /homes and login pass. 3. i have encrypted their /homes 4.
[21:38] <RoyK> Quest: rssh
[21:38] <RoyK> again
[21:39] <Quest> RoyK,  explorer cant do for both? i remember i did sftp or ftps once in windows exploror
[21:39] <RoyK> no, explorer can't
[21:39] <RoyK> period
[21:39] <RoyK> filezilla can
[21:39] <Quest> RoyK,  ok
[21:39] <Pici> explorer (iexplore) can do straight ftp.
[21:39] <RoyK> Quest: when you say "over wan", do you mean "over internet" or "over a closed wan"?
[21:39] <Quest> and what do i need. sftp or ftps?
[21:40] <Quest> Pici,  not iexplorer. windows explorer
[21:40] <Quest> RoyK,  ^
[21:40] <RoyK> Quest: !
[21:40] <Pici> ahh
[21:40] <Quest> ok. period..
[21:40] <Quest> i recall the period
[21:41] <Pici> Quest: sftp is what we suggest. If you want ftps you're on your own.
[21:41] <Quest> hm
[21:41] <Pici> RoyK suggests doing this with rssh, as he has said many, many times.
[21:41] <Quest> Pici,  ok. why ftps is discouraged?
[21:41] <RoyK> Quest: can you please take an advice for once?
[21:42] <Quest> RoyK,  i do need to configure rssh. ? ( i may want some users to rom around outside /home
[21:42] <RoyK> ssh combined with rssh is very secure
[21:42] <RoyK> Quest: then google it
[21:42] <Quest> RoyK,  ofcourse. your advice is admired
[21:42] <RoyK> it's not hard
[21:42] <Pici> Quest: In my experience, it works horribly.  Extra configuration for clients needs to be done if you are behind a corporate NAT.
[21:42] <Quest> ok
[21:42] <Quest> nice
[21:42] <Pici> rather, if the clients are behind a nat
[21:43] <Pici> I've spent many hours trying to get things working at my employer, where I need to upload files to other companys' FTPS servers.
[21:43] <Pici> With SFTP, things just work the first time.
[21:43] <Quest> hm great
[21:44] <Quest> hm
[21:47] <RoyK> Pici: out of interest - what would be troublesome with NAT for FTPS? It's just TCP, after all
[21:47] <geofft> I think the security story (in terms of vulnerabilities in the server) for OpenSSH is a lot better, btw
[21:48] <Quest> Pici,  RoyK  I have read a bit tutorials about adduser and useradd. and chatted in freenode. i still didnt got an expert answer on how 1. to add a user as is added by default by ubuntu GUI with prober /home/userlongname  constructing the /home and the .files dot file like .cashe . bash etc      and 2. how to add a user with /home but no priviliges and NO console login . just files in his folder (for sftp)
[21:48] <RoyK> Quest: using a gui isn't really a server question
[21:48] <geofft> RoyK, Pici: isn't this the active/passive FTP nonsense?
[21:48] <geofft> Quest: the "adduser" command should do #1
[21:49] <RoyK> geofft: ah - right - you need a nat helper etc etc etc
[21:49] <RoyK> ftp sucks rather badly at nat
[21:49] <Pici> RoyK: From what I understand (and I don't feel like researching it in detail this moment) is that the additional port needed for extra communication between your client and the FTPS server is sent encrypted between yourself and the ftps server. So if you don't have the right range of ports open for that particular ftps server's configuration, it just won't work.
[21:49] <Quest> RoyK,  ya. thats why i need console
[21:49] <RoyK> Pici: makes sense
[21:49] <geofft> Quest: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/94
[21:50] <Quest> geofft,  whats better. add user or useradd
[21:50] <geofft> Quest: looks like the comments in that page suggest using rssh for #2
[21:50] <RoyK> useradd -m blah
[21:50] <geofft> Quest: on Ubuntu / Debian, "adduser" does everything. "useradd" creates the account but doesn't initialize it
[21:51] <geofft> Quest: I basically always use "adduser"
[21:51] <Pici> adduser should generally be used unless you want to do something special.
[21:51] <RoyK> geofft: well, useradd -m creates the user, adds it to its default group, creates the homedir, copies /etc/skel there etc
[21:51] <geofft> Oh, does -m do that? Good to know
[21:51] <RoyK> man useradd ;)
[21:52] <RoyK> -m == create homedir
[21:52] <geofft> I just use adduser, or edit /etc/passwd by hand :-)
[21:52] <Quest> RoyK,  useradd -m dont give bash as its defual shel
[21:52] <RoyK> Quest: edit /etc/default/useradd
[21:52] <Quest> geofft,  useradd" creates the account but doesn't initialize it ? whats that mean
[21:53] <RoyK> Quest: it just means geofft hasn't rtfm
[21:53] <geofft> I have in fact never rtfm for useradd since I haven't had a use for it :)
[21:54] <RoyK> well, then don't blame it
[21:54] <Quest> how users are added in all linux distros? ubuntu is different?
[21:55] <geofft> I think all Debian-based distros do the same thing with adduser and useradd.
[21:55] <geofft> Red Hat-based distros tend to just have adduser as an alias for useradd. I don't know if it's the same useradd.
[21:55] <Quest> in user add and add user . when the password is set? and can i just give the login name to clients and ask them to setup their password themselft?
[21:55] <Quest> at first login i mean
[21:56]  * Quest thanks all in advance!
[21:58] <Quest> oh yes. most important question. I need to auto block ssh acces to ips that repeatedly entered incorrect login passwords 5 or 7 times
[21:59] <RoyK> on redhat, adduser is a symlink to useradd
[22:00] <RoyK> adduser is a debian thing, it's a wrapper script
[22:00] <Pici> hmm, indeed it is.  /me adds to notes
[22:00] <Pici> (perl, for those playing at home)
[22:00] <geofft> Quest: I've heard of fail2ban and DenyHosts used for this, but I've never used either
[22:01] <RoyK> Quest: I use denyhosts
[22:01] <Pici> I use fail2ban.
[22:01] <RoyK> default config is a bit nazi - perhaps good to slow it down a bit
[22:01] <Pici> I haven't thoroughly researched either though, but it works well with zero config for me.
[22:01] <RoyK> the good thing about denyhosts, is that it works distributedly
[22:02] <RoyK> so you can deny a host from all your servers if it tries n times on one machine
[22:02] <RoyK> both work, though
[22:03] <Quest> need easy for starters
[22:04] <Quest> Pici,  oh so no need to config it?
[22:04] <Pici> Quest: correct.
[22:04] <Pici> The defaults are sane.
[22:04] <Quest> it bans 5 incorrect logins for how much time by default?
[22:05] <Quest> just a rought i dea Pici
[22:05] <Quest> i hope it works for every ssh based app. which includes sftp
[22:06] <geofft> Yes. sftp happens by opening an ssh connection and requesting an sftp-server instead of requesting a shell
[22:06] <jgcampbell300> is it ok to ask questions about ispconfig3 here ?
[22:06] <RoyK> Quest: omg, can you just try to read the config before asking? or the manual? or google it?
[22:06] <Quest> ya.. i should not get consious
[22:07] <RoyK> good idea
[22:07] <Quest> has anyone happen to run freenx or vnc4server?
[22:08] <RoyK> weren't you in the process of learning how to secure your server?
[22:09] <Quest> I wonder apps like  spotflux.com and hotspotshield  use what protocol. https i guess?
[22:09]  * RoyK ignores Quest
[22:09] <Quest> RoyK,  yes. and a remote gui is an addon
[22:10] <Quest> in daily work.
[22:10] <maxb> Is there any way to safely flush the history stored in an LVM2 metadata area? I have a weird GRUB issue and I'd like to eliminate the possibility it's reading an old version of the LVM metadata
[22:10] <Quest> and https is for filtering  services which lets browsing facebook.com  if its blocked in firewall for example
[22:11] <Quest> right Pici  and geofft ?
[22:12]  * RoyK wonders if Quest  is a bot
[22:13] <geofft> Quest: no idea, never used those services
[22:14] <RoyK> maxb: what's the issue?
[22:14] <maxb> grub-probe is returning some warning like: grub-probe: warning: Couldn't find physical volume `pv1'. Some modules may be missing from core image..
[22:15] <maxb> The system boots, but I'm interested in figuring out what grub is unhappy about
[22:15] <RoyK> did you upgrade from an older version?
[22:16] <maxb> Yes, but the warnings didn't start appearing precisely then
[22:16] <Quest> thx
[22:17] <maxb> I guess I could force pvcreate to reinitialize the on-disk metadata from a backup file
[22:18] <RoyK> maxb: single drive?
[22:18] <maxb> Two
[22:21] <Quest> RoyK,  adduser -m makes the default shell as sh. it should be bash.  any solution Pici ?
[22:23] <RoyK> Quest: do you even read what I write?
[22:23] <RoyK> 23:52 < RoyK> Quest: edit /etc/default/useradd
[22:24] <RoyK> moron
[22:25] <geofft> Quest: I think you're wearing folks' patience thin. If you're unfamilar with the process of getting answers to these questions, you can ask
[22:25] <geofft> Quest: But I'm pretty sure nobody has told you anything that's unavailable in package man pages, Wikipedia, HOWTOs, debian-administration.org, etc. etc. etc.
[22:26] <geofft> Quest: And you'll get more thorough answers that way.
[22:27] <Quest> RoyK,  iam talking about add use rnot useradd . /etc/default/useradd is for useradd. it says SHELL=/bin/sh
[22:27] <RoyK> tried to change it?
[22:28] <Quest> why should why when 1. i use adduser and not useradd 2. users added by GUI have bash. why?
[22:29] <Quest> geofft,  those articales made me confuse. you guys solved it
[22:29] <geofft> Quest: as mentioned earlier, adduser is a wrapper around useradd
[22:29] <Quest> if i have not insisting questions though.
[22:29] <geofft> Quest: The GUI tool probably has different defaults.
[22:29] <Quest> geofft,  hm
[22:29] <Quest> so I did needed to change the sh to bash
[22:29] <Quest> ok
[22:30] <Quest> geofft,  how to add the user , make /home but dont allow it to login /home folder. (only login to sftp by ssh)?
[22:30] <Quest> is there a way
[22:32] <RoyK> Quest: before you complain any more - try to add the file I've mentioned a couple of times - try to add a user
[22:32] <Quest> i have
[22:32] <RoyK> and it worked?
[22:32] <geofft> Quest: Did you read the article I linked earlier and the comments?
[22:32] <Quest> it made the account but i can login.
[22:32] <geofft> Quest: Did you look at rssh, which RoyK has recommended a few times?
[22:33] <RoyK> geofft: I don't think Quest reads anything we link to, he just asks here
[22:33] <Quest> geofft,  RoyK  is rssh the only way. if i recall correct . there are other ways not to make the user login console?
[22:33] <geofft> Quest: There are lots of ways. Is there a problem with rssh?
[22:33] <RoyK> Quest: can you spell google?
[22:33] <Quest> geofft,  i have mostly read it
[22:34] <geofft> Have you tried it?
[22:34] <Quest> geofft,  by ways. i mean natvie ways. not third party apps like rssh
[22:34] <geofft> Install it on a machine, set it up, see if it does what you want.
[22:34] <Quest> rssh is good. but iam asking for learning
[22:34] <geofft> You can see what rssh does.
[22:34] <geofft> Look at the configuration changes it makes, or look at its source. No better way to learn. :)
[22:35] <Quest> hm
[22:35] <geofft> if you haven't read the sshd_config manpage, read that too
[22:35] <Quest> there is no native way?
[22:35] <geofft> it's incredibly dense, but everything's in there
[22:35] <Quest> i mean a way (if i recall) that was some arg at adduser/useradd
[22:35] <Quest> hm
[22:35] <geofft> Did you see the debian-administration.org article I linked to?
[22:35] <RoyK> geofft: just trop it - Quest will just ask here - he doesn't read
[22:35] <Quest> yes
[22:35] <geofft> It talks about a way to do this that doesn't involve using rssh.
[22:36] <Quest> ok. if you guys are annoyed. ill stop asking
[22:36] <Quest> geofft,  whats that. i missed it
[22:36] <geofft> Er, that's the entire article.
[22:37] <Quest> k
[22:37] <RoyK> any ops around?
[22:38] <Pici> hm?
[22:39] <Pici> Quest: they're annoyed.  We're here to help, and it seems you're ignoring advice that has already been said and asking again.
[22:39] <Quest> advice admired and regarded. stoped asking
[22:39] <Pici> thank you.
[22:40] <Quest> did i said thank you to RoyK ?
[22:40] <RoyK> Quest: maybe - but I'd still say "read the manual, google it" etc before asking too much in here
[22:42] <Quest> my question was valid. as sftp is command execution. and so is same as ssh. if i need sftp but dont want to console login. even rssh might not help (just making a jail around /home is not enough)
[22:42] <RoyK> Quest: as I said
[22:42] <RoyK> earlier
[22:42] <RoyK> we
[22:43] <RoyK> are
[22:43] <RoyK> using
[22:43] <RoyK> rssh
[22:43] <RoyK> for
[22:43] <RoyK> 17000
[22:43] <RoyK> users
[22:43] <geofft> Quest: Why "might not help"? Have you tried it?
[22:43] <Pici> "rssh is a restricted shell for use with OpenSSH, allowing only scp and/or sftp. It now also includes support for rdist, rsync, and cvs. For example, if you have a server which you only want to allow users to copy files off of via scp, without providing shell access, you can use rssh to do that."
[22:44] <RoyK> Pici: don't help him - he may even find the command "man" one day
[22:44] <Pici> RoyK: if I don't help then I'm going to say things that I might regret.
[22:44] <geofft> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[22:45] <geofft> specifically the "Before you ask" section.
[22:45] <Quest> Pici,  great!!!
[22:45] <Quest> RoyK,  just saying rssh does it. is less better than what Pici  explain. now iam confident.
[22:46] <Quest> i was nervous
[22:46] <Pici> ...
[22:46] <Quest> but thanks alot RoyK
[22:46] <Pici> Quest: fyi, that was a direct quote from rssh's website. which you could have looked for yourself. It took me two seconds to find it.
[22:48] <geofft> Quest: All of us here learned what we know by reading documentation and trying things.
[22:48] <Quest> looked. not quit efficeitly looked as a start. contrary to you
[22:48] <Quest>  the ssh-terminal can be locked out, by adding <sftplib> to /etc/shells, and setting that shell for the user logon
[22:49] <geofft> Quest: It takes time. I've been sysadminning ssh for years. But I now know it very well.
[22:49] <geofft> Quest: You're going to get better answers by reading things slowly and being patient with web searches than expecting other people to do things for you.
[22:49] <Quest> k
[22:50] <geofft> Guessing at the purpose behind your questions, you're trying to do something very complicated.
[22:50] <geofft> (thinking about the file transfer question, and the FreeNX question, and ...)
[22:50] <Quest> ya
[22:50] <geofft> That's fine! You can do complicated things with Linux.
[22:50] <geofft> It will just take you more than a few hours to learn how to do.
[22:50] <Quest> hm
[22:50] <geofft> And especially for things like secure file transfer and remote logins, you want to make sure you understand it.
[22:51] <Quest> tring to assemble a huge server in two days
[22:51] <geofft> Because otherwise you risk setting up the security wrong.
[22:51] <Pici> geofft: thanks for explaining this all :)
[22:51] <Quest> i have already done network reporting. now with these things
[22:51] <geofft> Again, you totally _can_ understand it. It's just not the sort of thing you want to try to rush to understand
[22:51] <Quest> 2 day deadline is  a rush
[22:52] <geofft> I would not feel confident setting up a remote file access + networked login server in two days, even knowing what I do about these things.
[22:52] <Quest> hm
[22:52] <geofft> I would feel confident in taking, oh, maybe a week to set up a dev server.
[22:52] <Quest> am i correct about  the ssh-terminal can be locked out, by adding <sftplib> to /etc/shells, and setting that shell for the user logon
[22:52] <geofft> I don't know.
[22:52] <Quest> k
[22:53] <geofft> I mean, I could think about it, and figure it out, but I'm not the one doing this project. :-)
[22:53] <geofft> And it will take me more than five seconds to figure that out.
[22:54] <Quest> hm
[22:54] <Pici> but after that week you'd know what to do and probably know how to fix many of the problems that might occur after it is live.
[22:54] <geofft> Depending on the constraints of your project, you might also want to hire an experienced sysadmin / consulting firm to do this
[22:54] <geofft> and to maintain its security long term
[22:54] <geofft> but anyone you could hire that's worth hiring will refuse to do it in a mere two days.
[22:55] <Quest> Pici,  ya
[23:03] <Quest> just to confirm, geofft  pici that its a good practice . to not allow console login for a user
[23:03] <Quest>     change the user's shell to /bin/false (in /etc/passwd)