[08:40] <Kilos> hellooo africa
[08:58] <craigbrash> hellooo South Africa
[09:54] <Kilos> bit cooler today craigbrash `
[10:01] <craigbrash> much nicer here too , had some rain last night brought temps down :)


[16:42] <Letozaf_> balloons, hey
[16:42] <Letozaf_> balloons, don't ask me why but this afternoon building docviewer and running autopilot tests works :O
[16:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe it was after the apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade !! not sure


[01:26] <Kali_Yuga> whats the terminal based text editor again??
[04:38] <valorie> wow, slow day in #kubuntu
[04:38] <ahoneybun> yep
[04:39] <valorie> out for some hours, now I need to restart the new computer (need to name it!)
[04:39] <valorie> scary
[04:39] <ahoneybun> scary that it is slow in here?
[04:50] <Kali_Yuga> I have a nice Idea to those Neon-colours you have in KDE they have to change like a rainbow that would be freakin nice :D
[05:02] <valorie> ahoneybun: usually I come back to loads to read
[05:03] <valorie> also strange -- if I ask (apt-cache policy) about kubuntu-desktop, it's not installed
[05:03] <valorie> but everything seems to work as usual
[05:04] <valorie> so bizarre, but I guess I can't complain!
[05:31] <TNVolFan> Hey, how would I go about copying an entire conversation in http://www.pinger.com/tfw  ...  It looks like the messages are housed in an adobe flash container.  I remember doing it a few months back, but for the life of me I can't remember how to do it
[05:31] <TNVolFan> I tried using the developer options in firefox to isolate the iframe housing the adobe flash object but no dice.  It is an online SMS texting application.
[05:41] <jordan4ibanez> So I have nvidia 346.59, whenever I fullscreen a window it turns black
[05:41] <jordan4ibanez> Any workarounds for this?
[05:43] <jordan4ibanez> Please, anyone, this is a very prominent issue right now, this operating system is unusable for me
[05:46] <TNVolFan> valorie, any ideas on that
[05:52] <jordan4ibanez> trying a downgrade to 340.76, if I don't come back, it's all better, on a gtx650 1gb  just in case
[05:54] <valorie> pff
[05:54] <valorie> TNVolFan: ewww, flash
[05:55] <valorie> are you sure pinger doesn't build in a way to do that?
[06:00] <jordan4ibanez> Welp that didn't work at all
[06:01] <jordan4ibanez> But I did install the microcode driver, which is nice
[06:01] <jordan4ibanez> Now it's time to try the open source driver
[06:05] <jordan4ibanez> The microcode driver seems to have boosted my performance significantly, very nice
[06:05] <jordan4ibanez> And brb..possibly
[06:08] <jordan4ibanez> Uhh
[06:09] <jordan4ibanez> It got better? I think http://i.imgur.com/KtURzNW.png
[06:09] <jordan4ibanez> That's with nouveau
[06:13] <ovidiu-florin> I'm so sick of all this Nvidia c**p
[06:13] <ovidiu-florin> I do apologise to our users on behalf of Kubuntu for this, but it's mostly out of our hands. We do our best
[06:14] <ovidiu-florin> with what we can/have
[06:18] <valorie> indeed
[06:19] <valorie> drivers have always been a problem in linux
[06:19] <valorie> damn companies that don't believe in free software
[06:24] <jordan4ibanez> I fixed it :D
[06:24] <jordan4ibanez> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UBsVi4qs
[06:24] <jordan4ibanez> 346.59 working a okay
[06:24] <jordan4ibanez> bye now
[09:16] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:33] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[10:56] <guggenheim9000> is it possible to export tasks from kontact / korganizer?
[12:15] <bshah> !info plasma4-mediacenter
[12:16] <bshah> !info plasma-mediacenter
[12:16] <bshah> whatever ubottu
[14:56] <satty> bluetooth is not working
[14:56] <satty> how to enable bluetooth in kubuntu 15.04
[15:29] <patrik> Hi, I need help with my wlan card BCM4360 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter [14e4:43a0] (rev 03)
[15:31] <BluesKaj> pa ok , what's the issue?
[15:31] <BluesKaj> patrik,^
[15:32] <patrik> Hi, the card is not detected anymore.
[15:33] <patrik> installing bcmwl-kernel-source fails with: DKMS: install completed.
[15:33] <patrik> modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'wl': Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
[15:33] <patrik> my kernel: 3.13.0-55-generic #94-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 18 00:27:10 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[15:37] <patrik> The issue came the first time when upgrading from  3.13.0-55-generic to  3.13.0-57-generic
[15:38] <BluesKaj> have you run sudo modprobe braodcom-sta-common
[15:38] <patrik> no
[15:38] <BluesKaj> err broadcom
[15:38] <patrik> braodcom-sta-common is not installed
[15:39] <BluesKaj> so you're using the source code withy dkms version
[15:39] <patrik> I guess so
[15:40] <BluesKaj> i misspelled broadcom in my origianl post
[15:40] <patrik> apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source worked so far!
[15:42] <BluesKaj> try the common
[15:48] <patrik> apt-get install broadcom-sta-common, but no wlan interface
[15:57] <BluesKaj> patrik, sudo iwlist wlan0 scan|grep -i essid
[15:57] <patrik> wlan0     Interface doesn't support scanning.
[16:00] <BluesKaj> sudo ifconfig wlan0 up
[16:16] <jubo2> I need to set a redirect.. currently http://develop.consumerium.org makes you wait for 3 seconds with nearly no useful info and then forwards you to http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/ ... what is the best type of redirect I should use?
[16:17] <jubo2> I mean I can set it in HTML and at my registrar
[16:17] <jubo2> and there are many types of redirects available from my registrar
[16:17] <jubo2> so I'm wondering which is best to use
[16:18] <genii> Permanently moved
[16:18] <jubo2> so I could do it in HTML, apache or at the registrars
[16:22] <genii> jubo2: With Apache: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectpermanent
[16:22] <jubo2> genii: tnx
[16:25] <jubo2> genii: and I put that in the VirtualHost declaration, right?
[16:30] <jubo2> genii: can it be affecting that it don't work that #1 I have Apache2.4 or that #2 I have mod_rewrite enabled ?
[16:39] <patrik> BluesKaj, I think you don't get the point...
[16:40] <BluesKaj> ok patrik , what is your point ?
[16:41] <patrik> The card is not supported by the module/kernel - there's no interface present which I could configure
[17:24] <abhi> please help? having problems in kubuntu 15.04 fresh install
[17:24] <abhi> anyone?
[17:26] <PrimeCl0ver> Ask your question.
[17:29] <abhi> My taskbar has gone hidden and right-click, left click, etc aren't working...
[17:29] <abhi> hidden -> disappeared
[17:30] <abhi> mouse cursor is visible and moving fine... no right-click...
[17:31] <PrimeCl0ver> Right click on your desktop -> + Add Panel ->
[17:31] <abhi> yeah... but right-click doesn't bring up the menu... :\
[17:33] <PrimeCl0ver> So when you right click on the naked desktop nothing happens?
[17:33] <abhi> yeah... nothing...
[17:34] <PrimeCl0ver> So you say this is a fresh install? What was the last thing you did before noticing this?
[17:35] <abhi> fresh install, install required apps, upgrade stock apps, reboot...
[17:35] <PrimeCl0ver> On reboot you realized that your taskbar had dissapeared?
[17:35] <abhi> yeah...
[17:35] <abhi> actually, no...
[17:36] <abhi> on reboot, when i logged in, i was welcomed by black screen...
[17:36] <PrimeCl0ver> on the top left of your screen do you have a square with three lines in it?
[17:36] <abhi> i googled, a solution was to delete some files in ~/.cache/
[17:37] <PrimeCl0ver> yeah, that was my next suggestion. Just delete it all and start fresh
[17:37] <abhi> i moved them to ~/.cache/cache.old/
[17:37] <abhi> then reboot made taskbar disappear
[17:37] <PrimeCl0ver> ok
[17:37] <PrimeCl0ver> so top left corner you have that squar?
[17:37] <PrimeCl0ver> square
[17:37] <abhi> yeah...
[17:38] <abhi> but click doesn't respond
[17:38] <abhi> it's like the gui has hung up...
[17:38] <PrimeCl0ver> yeah try rebooting again
[17:38] <abhi> did quite a lot of times
[17:39] <PrimeCl0ver> do this
[17:39] <abhi> i had installed it yesterday... nearly 26 hours ago...
[17:39] <PrimeCl0ver> mv ~/.kde4 ~/.kde4.old
[17:39] <PrimeCl0ver> restart
[17:39] <PrimeCl0ver> login and see if that set your desktop back to default
[17:40] <abhi> ok, lemme try...
[17:40] <abhi> be back in some time...
[17:40] <PrimeCl0ver> k, good luck
[17:50] <abhi> hey, PrimeCl0ver
[17:50] <abhi> there?
[17:50] <abhi> it didn't work...
[17:50] <abhi> there wasn't any .kde4 but there was .kde
[17:50] <abhi> i did the same with it... didn't work...
[17:56] <BluesKaj> patrik,, sudo systemctl enable network-manager
[17:57] <abhi> BluesKaj: are you suggesting something to me?
[18:00] <BluesKaj> abhi, not the above command , but you try dropping to a VT/TTY and updaing and upgrading and making sure plasma-desktop is installed
[18:00] <BluesKaj> could try
[18:35] <abhi> BluesKaj: i had configured kdewallet and it used to prompt everytime before connecting my wireless network...
[18:35] <abhi> the prompt isn't appearing since the taskbar has disappeared...
[18:36] <abhi> no wallet auth => no wireless connection => no update...
[18:37] <abhi> i need to go now, please PM me if someone has some solution... i'll check back later... thanks in advance...
[20:44] <akasic> hi all, in utube, when i am in a video and click to another, it just stays in the same page, however, it opens the sound of the cliked video, any help? thnx
[20:46] <ubernoob> this isnt sarcasm sadly.. how do i change my desktop background in 15.04 :(
[20:46] <bprompt> akasic:    sounds like the "click" opened the clicked video on a "background" tab or window
[20:49] <akasic> right click ubernoob
[20:49] <akasic> let me see bprompt
[20:50] <akasic> no it doesnt open it in a tab either a new window
[20:50] <bprompt> anyhow, on most browser a ctrl-click does that, opens in a background tab/window
[20:50] <akasic> it just plays the sound over the video
[20:50] <akasic> ''hi all, in utube, when i am in a video and click to another''
[20:51] <bprompt> akasic:    are you getting both sounds, the video you had and the one you clcked on?
[20:51] <akasic> the video still opened, and the sound over
[20:51] <akasic> two sounds
[20:51] <bprompt> and playing?
[20:51] <bprompt> right
[20:51] <akasic> only the one i want to left behind
[20:51] <bprompt> that sounds like the other is also playing, just in a background tab/window
[20:52] <bprompt> so, you'd really have both playing at the same time, just that the active window/tab didn't change
[20:52] <akasic> look, i can use it normally, but in a couple or three videos, it starts
[20:52] <ubernoob> akasic: tried that, nothing says anything about the background -_-
[20:52] <akasic> is not a desktop settings in there ubernoob
[20:53] <ubernoob> ok its in folder settings.. odd, but found it lol. now if i can just figure out how to change the kickoff launcher..
[20:53] <akasic> is not a key shortcut config issue, i think its a flash one
[20:54] <akasic> what folder manager are u using?
[20:54] <akasic> are u using kde
[20:55] <ubernoob> yes kubuntu
[20:56] <akasic> then try in system settings
[20:56] <akasic> are u using dolphin? because through that u cant cnage the background
[20:57] <akasic> type screen in kickoff and configuration
[20:57] <ubernoob> oh i found the background change thing, it was in right click, but under folder settings
[20:58] <akasic> what u want to change of the kickoff exactly
[20:58] <ubernoob> the icon
[20:58] <akasic> right click it
[20:58] <akasic> no sorry, im wrong
[21:00] <akasic> u must drop a kick off plasmoid in the desktop
[21:00] <akasic> and then right click
[21:00] <akasic> then, put it in ur bar
[21:02] <akasic> well, i seems hat the default one it doesnt have that option
[21:03] <ubernoob> actually having quite a bit of difficulty lol
[21:15] <ubernoob> back sorry. but yeah, i cannot figure out how to change the application launcher icon xD
[21:36] <dustan> hi
[21:38] <dustan> I'm unable to connect to a wireless network. it's supposed to be wpa2 security, but the network manager only ever gets as far as setting network address
[23:28] <valorie> hi folks, dunno if anyone is around, but this is my latest "new computer" situation: https://goo.gl/Fyqg3F
[23:29] <valorie> in spite of all the errors, things seem to work; in other words, filelight was installed, etc.
[23:31] <ahoneybun> yay valorie
[23:32] <valorie> would be nice to have no errors, though
[23:32] <ahoneybun> valorie: there is a command for --configure
[23:32] <ahoneybun> an option from dpkg
[23:33] <valorie> it's weird to have those things working while I get those errors that they are all unconfigured
[23:33] <valorie> there is --force
[23:33] <valorie> but that sounds scary
[23:33] <valorie> unless someone who knows way more than me is saying OK
[23:34] <valorie> this will be my main computer for two weeks and I don't want to screw it up!
[23:34] <ahoneybun> valorie: http://askubuntu.com/questions/163200/e-dpkg-was-interrupted-run-sudo-dpkg-configure-a
[23:34] <ahoneybun> sudo dpkg --configure -a
[23:34] <valorie> ahoneybun: I did that
[23:34] <ahoneybun> oh
[23:34] <valorie> scroll to the end
[23:36] <ahoneybun> got ya
[23:37] <ahoneybun> well all the errors are from not being configured
[23:37] <ahoneybun> and they are not configure because of dependency problems
[23:38] <valorie> right
[23:38] <valorie> I'll let Scarlett mess with it in Spain
[23:38] <ahoneybun> it looks like the core problem is that breeze-cursor-theme is not configured
[23:38] <ahoneybun> so if that gets configured
[23:39] <valorie> because if it is caused by packaging errors, and I think it is, she'll be able to fix that at the source
[23:39] <valorie> well, i could try just configuring that I suppose
[23:39] <valorie> but this was a damn new install
[23:40] <ahoneybun> prehaps "sudo dpkg --configure breeze-cursor-theme" ?
[23:40] <valorie> I think that can't hurt
[23:41] <ahoneybun> valorie: I'll bring 2 usbs with 15.04 and 14.10 if need be
[23:43] <valorie> https://goo.gl/Niuq9u
[23:44] <ahoneybun> I think we are getting down to it
[23:45] <ahoneybun> of course that was in the other paste too
[23:45] <ahoneybun> I'll give you that .theme file over drive
[23:45] <valorie> anyway, that seems to me to be a packaging problem
[23:46] <ahoneybun> it does
[23:46] <valorie> anyway, I need to fix dinner etc.
[23:46] <ahoneybun> oh I just got the file up
[23:47] <valorie> my time for fix00ring the lil laptop is done for now.....
[23:47] <valorie> too much other stuff to do
[23:47] <ahoneybun> valorie: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zAAODZFwQ2UHFtaVpnT0pObzA/view?usp=sharing
[23:47] <ahoneybun> for later if you have time
[23:47] <valorie> but what do I do with that, ahoneybun?
[23:47] <ahoneybun> or want to
[23:47] <ahoneybun> sudo cp -r it into /etc/X11/cursors
[23:47] <valorie> I'm downloading it
[23:48] <ahoneybun>  /etc/X11/cursors/breeze_cursors.theme doesn't exist
[23:48] <valorie> ok, so just navigate to ~/Downloads and then cp?
[23:48] <valorie> I can do that
[23:48] <valorie> but later
[23:48] <valorie> thank you
[23:49] <ahoneybun> then run "sudo dpkg --configure breeze-cursor-theme" again and see the result valorie, I'll let you go
[23:49] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:50] <valorie> cool


[17:27] <LLStarks> and backporting is about to become a nightmare: http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2011/02/07/firefox-4-5-6-and-7-to-be-released-before-the-end-of-2011/
[17:28] <LLStarks> aside from the lack of a concurrent firefox-next branch, this is literally out of nowhere.
[17:51] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, that is exactly why we don't want extensions in the archive ;)
[17:52] <LLStarks> be gone with the lot of them!
[17:53] <LLStarks> even a best-in-class add-on like abp is just another thing we'd need to worry about
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> well, that's gone already ;)
[18:01]  * micahg is conflicted http://is.gd/W7AqLB
[18:06] <LLStarks> 4.0 needs to come out first
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah ;)
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> we need to speed up efforts to get xulrunner out of main
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> i don't want natty to release with it still in main ;)
[18:09] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yep, what's left, couchdb?
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> micahg - couchdb, swt-gtk and icedtea-plugin
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> icedtea-plugin is easy to resolve, we just build it against a firefox SDK
[18:10]  * micahg doesn't think couch should be in main
[18:10] <micahg> it's a disaster
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> heh
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> for couchdb though, we can provide a separate libmozjs, decoupled from firefox releases
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> for swt-gtk, i've got no idea what to do
[18:11] <micahg> chrisccoulson: can't we just ship a copy of the xul headers in icedtea-plugin or will that break later?
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> i can't find anybody who cares about swt-gtk, yet the only thing keeping it in main is a server package
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> micahg - icedtea uses xpcom, so it needs a full SDK to build against
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> but it should be building against firefox anyway
[18:12] <micahg> chrisccoulson: indeed, ok, I'll have to continue this later
[18:12] <chrisccoulson> i'm tempted to kill the browser part of swt-gtk entirely, and just drop tuxguitar, vuze etc
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> is eclipse using it too?
[18:13] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yeah, but that's switching to webkit mostly for 3.7
[18:13] <micahg> I might be able to get it ported to webkit for 3.6, but it still uses xul as a fallback
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, did you resolve your virtualbox issue yet?
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> you can probably start the old kernel until it's resolved
[18:49] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey - I've gotten absorbed in another issue.  I was just going to wait for the fix to manifest in the packages.
[18:50] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: I'm checking out Thunderbird integration with the Messaging Menu.  Some good work has been done there - just needs to be ported to C++
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, oh, are you looking at the extension that exists already?
[18:50] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: yep
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think we pretty much need to rewrite that (from the last time i looked) :/
[18:51] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: and it works alright - but it'll need quite a bit of love to massage it into core.
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, how do people feel about me shipping globalmenu-extension by default with thunderbird?
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> do you think it's ready? i'd like to get people testing it soon ;)
[18:52] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: Good question - lets ask in #maildev and see what davida thinks
[18:52] <micahg> chrisccoulson: does it do anything if unity isn't installed?
[18:52] <micahg> or running
[18:52] <davida_> i'm here
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> hi davida_, how are you?
[18:53] <m_conley> davida_: oh, hey - chrisccoulson was wondering if he might start shipping globalmenu-extension by default with Thunderbird to help with testing.
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> micahg - it's inert if unity isn't running (it falls back to its own menus)
[18:53] <davida_> are we talking about the default ubuntu distro, or the mozilla build?
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> davida_, it would just be with the ubuntu build
[18:54] <m_conley> I think just the Ubuntu distro - correct, chrisccoulson?
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's right
[18:54] <davida_> (for now, right?  assuming it's good, we'd want that upstreamed, right?)
[18:55] <m_conley> davida_: correct - I think this is just to get it to a wider audience, to find/iron out any big bugs.
[18:55] <m_conley> and then I think we'll start migrating to core.
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> davida_, yeah, the plan is to work on getting it in to core, but it's timed badly with the firefox release schedule
[18:55] <davida_> in general, I'm fine with it, assuming the experience is likely to be much better.
[18:56] <davida_> oh, you're asking me about TB only, though, right?
[18:56] <m_conley> davida_: correct.
[18:56] <chrisccoulson> davida_, yeah, just tbird for now
[18:57] <davida_> sorry, another stupid q- how would this end up being deployed, as a security/almost-automatic update?
[18:58] <davida_> have you run it through whatever beta/testing scenarios you usually use?
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> davida_, it would only be deployed to our development release at the moment
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> so, people running it are all alpha testers anyway. it's not the sort of thing we'd deploy as a stable update
[18:58] <davida_> no objection, then, definitely not, at least from me.
[18:59] <chrisccoulson> excellent, thanks
[18:59] <davida_> it might be good to get clarkbw or andreasn1 to look at it from the UI/UX POV, if they haven't already
[18:59] <fta> dpm, still here?
[19:00] <m_conley> davida_: ok, noted.  I'll get in touch.
[19:00] <fta> dpm, looking at bug 710591, i wonder if what i'm doing right now would be useful once this is fixed
[19:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 710591 in launchpad "Ubuntu upstream translation imports overwrite Ubuntu translations" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710591
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, davida_ - thanks
[19:01] <davida_> chrisccoulson: np, i'm happy to see this thing moving along!
[19:03] <m_conley> ditto.  davida_:  there's also been good work done on Messaging Menu integration:  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/indicators-for-thunderb-223374/
[19:04] <m_conley> davida_: as a demo, it's quite nice.  The code needs some re-writing to prepare it for core, though.  Still - the functionality is nice.  When this is done, the UI is going to be pretty slick.
[19:04] <davida_> sweet
[19:07] <dpm> hey fta, I'm not sure. I've been talking to henninge and they are planning to have a fix for it in the LP rollout this week. I think we'll have to check out whether the behaviour is the expected then
[19:10] <fta> dpm, i guess the hours i've spent fighting this bug are a pure loss then
[19:12] <fta> dpm, the merge proposed by danilos can't work as it's impossible to set a string to its upstream value once it diverged in lp
[19:12] <fta> dpm, but i discovered that after writing all the code :P
[19:13] <dpm> fta, :( afaik (at least for Ubuntu it was like this before the bug), you can set a string to its upstream value by selecting the upstream value. Once you've done that, that message "tracks" upstream
[19:14] <dpm> but chromium is slightly different, as there is no Ubuntu package open for translation
[19:14] <fta> dpm, not my fault, it's a launchpad limitation
[19:15] <dpm> I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, just describing the situation
[19:15] <dpm> I wished other packages had translations as well maintained as chromium
[19:27] <fta> dpm, i guess i can drop some restrictions in my code once lp is able to feed me the proper strings. For now, if lp gives me a translation which is the same as the one i get from upstream, i reject it if i received another version in the past (from lp)
[19:28] <fta> dpm, the reason i had to do that is that translations don't stick, lp keeps overwriting them with the upstream ones. i tried to re-inject them twice, they don't stick for more than 1 day
[21:11] <micahg> err, Firefox, xulrunner, and Thunderbird get delayed but Seamonkey still tomorrow
[21:11] <micahg> yay
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> oh ? interesting
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> i think they're all ready to go though aren't they?
[21:13] <micahg> chrisccoulson: 1.9.1 will go out tomorrow
[21:13] <micahg> 1.9.2 is being respun
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> oh? that's not what i wanted to hear ;)
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> oh, yes
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> just seen now
[21:14] <micahg> so, it means I still have to rush to test Seamonkey tonight :)
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> that sucks. that's my evening planned then ;)
[21:15] <micahg> chrisccoulson: you could do it in the morning ;)


[07:17] <Ionic> is it frowned upon to enable and publish debug symbols in PPAs?
[09:30] <cjwatson> Ionic: You'll run through your quota faster, but it's fine.
[14:27] <rbasak> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Subscriber @mysql-ubuntu
[14:27] <rbasak> X-Launchpad-Message-For: mysql-ubuntu
[14:27] <rbasak> X-Launchpad-Notification-Type: code-review
[14:27] <rbasak> Is there any way to differentiate that it was I who filed the MP?
[14:27] <rbasak> Since I'm currently accidentally procmailing away review responses to an MP I filed.
[14:28] <rbasak> If it matters, I'm doing something a little odd here.
[14:28] <rbasak> I filed an MP entirely against an imported git repository.
[14:28] <rbasak> Since the work is on alioth, but I wanted to use an MP to get some peer review.
[14:28] <rbasak> Both the source and target branches have been imported from alioth.
[14:30] <rbasak> For example, I think that "X-Launchpad-MP-Proposer: ~racb" might solve my problem.
[14:34] <rbasak> Alternatively, I feel that something like "X-Launchpad-Message-For: racb" and "X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: proposer of MP" should trump "Subscriber @mysql-ubuntu".
[15:07] <cjwatson> rbasak: I think this is a bug in BranchMergeProposal.getNotificationRecipients.  It updates the rationale for the proposer's notification to be "Registrant" if they're directly subscribed, but it doesn't handle the case where they're subscribed via a team.
[15:07] <cjwatson> rbasak: (I think you must not be subscribed directly in this case?)
[15:31] <nickoe> Mmm, git.launchoad.net is 503
[15:32] <nickoe> *launchpad
[15:32] <wgrant> nickoe: Indeed, working on it.
[15:56] <nickoe> wgrant: cool
[15:58] <wgrant> nickoe: Should be back now.
[15:58] <nickoe> confirmed
[15:59] <nickoe> wgrant: what was up?
[15:59] <wgrant> nickoe: A particularly inconvenient RAID controller failed.
[16:00] <nickoe> huh
[17:15] <Saviq> hi, can someone please bump the size of ppa:mir-team/rc for us... had to recreate the PPA b/c we messed versions up... also ppa:mir-team/dev has a lot of traffic so we're exceeding the 12G from time to time still
[17:18] <cjwatson> Saviq: Bumped dev to 16GiB, and rc to match release.
[17:19] <Saviq> cjwatson: great, thank you, hoping to not mess with those any more
[22:57] <Ionic> cjwatson: yeah, I created a new PPA and have noticed that I'm already up to 68% of the original 2 GB quota... and that is for a PPA that only contains select packages in comparison to the other PPAs...
[22:58] <Ionic> guess I'll have to check that periodically and request a raise if necessary
[22:58] <Ionic> but I do find debug symbols very handy in case of problems


[01:45] <Kamilion> *sigh* beta2 iso's got broken graphics in virtualbox for me.
[01:45] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/xMeHb/e4c933e678.png
[01:46] <Kamilion> recovers after a virtual console switch and back.
[01:48] <Kamilion> internet connection's going nuts with disconnects; be back later.


[16:55] <zul> hi
[16:57] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[16:57] <kirkland> \o\
[16:57] <kirkland>  /o/
[16:57] <sconklin> o\
[16:58] <hallyn> \o
[17:01] <hallyn> who's on bat?
[17:01] <zul> hallyn: was it you last week?
[17:01] <jamespage> o/
[17:01] <hallyn> no, two or three weeks ago
[17:01] <zul> who did last week?
[17:02] <hallyn> spamaps?
[17:02]  * hallyn checks the blog
[17:02] <RoAkSoAx> yes \
[17:02] <zul> i think its Daviey this week
[17:02] <RoAkSoAx> yeah
[17:03] <Daviey> Sorry, chaps... was on the phone... I'm back now.
[17:03]  * hallyn tips his hat
[17:03] <Daviey> two moments whilst i compose myself.
[17:04] <Daviey> #startmeeting
[17:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is Daviey.
[17:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:04] <robbiew> *\o/*
[17:04] <Daviey> Hellow everyone, and thank you for coming.  Apologies for starting later than scheduled.
[17:04] <kirkland> pom poms, robbiew ?
[17:04] <robbiew> you know it!
[17:04] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:05] <Daviey> Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred, carry over)
[17:05] <Daviey> -- This is still carried over.
[17:05] <Daviey> Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug. (carry over)
[17:05] <Daviey> -- scheduled to talk with upstream today via phone.
[17:05] <Daviey> (and yesterday for that matter)
[17:05] <Daviey> SpamapS to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes
[17:05] <Daviey>  -- looks done
[17:06] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Natty Development
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
[17:06] <Daviey> So, we are in Ubuntu Beta 1 hard freeze.
[17:07] <Daviey> Hopefully the ISO building is starting to stabilise, and we should have a potential candidate soon (if not now)
[17:07] <Daviey> We could do with some additional testing of these candidates..
[17:07] <kirkland> Daviey: fyi, the aubergine color got dropped from the beta1 debian-installer :-(
[17:07] <Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[17:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[17:07] <kirkland> Daviey: sort of inadvertent fallout of making it configurable
[17:08] <zul> how come?
[17:08] <Daviey> kirkland, that is a shame...
[17:08] <kirkland> Daviey: i'm trying to fix it now
[17:08] <Daviey> kirkland, So that will land after beta 1 now?
[17:08] <kirkland> Daviey: yes, pray that the fix gets accepted for beta2
[17:08] <kirkland> Daviey: cjwatson said that he's not rebuilding debian-installer for beta1 at this point (understandably)
[17:09] <Daviey> kirkland, I hope so!  I liked the aubergine love.  It was in yesterdays ISO - when was it dropped?
[17:09] <kirkland> Daviey: debian-installer rebuilt yesterday, which used the updated newt configuration, where newt's palette is configurable
[17:10] <kirkland> Daviey: and that configuration did not propagate to the debian-installer bits
[17:10] <Daviey> I see, thanks kirkland - is there a new bug / WI that is tracking this?
[17:10] <kirkland> Daviey: i'm trying desparately to get it working
[17:10] <Daviey> kirkland, rocking.
[17:10] <kirkland> Daviey: i honestly haven't had time to file a bug, focused on fixing it ASAP
[17:10] <Daviey> kirkland, ok, sounds good.
[17:10] <kirkland> Daviey: but i thought i'd mention it here, thanks
[17:10] <Daviey> Okay.. regarding our burn down chart..
[17:11] <Daviey> As we are in freeze now, any items that are in main/multiverse need to be adjusted to beta2 - or discussion if they should be dropped.
[17:12] <Daviey> Regarding release bugs... We do have a handful.. they look like they are making progress - so not sure we need to discuss them further here.
[17:12] <Daviey> Does anyone else have any comments for Natty development?
[17:12] <Daviey> moving on
[17:12] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:13] <Daviey> Doesn't look like we have any new ones confirmed in the short term.
[17:13] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:13] <RoAkSoAx> This Saturday April 2nd. Texas Linux Fest. kirkland and I are presenting
[17:13] <jamespage> Hmm well there is puppet camp at the end of next month
[17:13] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ^^
[17:13] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, ah, thanks!
[17:14] <zul> Openstack Summit next month
[17:14] <Daviey> Yeah, i thought that was > short term. :)
[17:14] <zul> it is short term :)
[17:14] <Daviey> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:15] <Daviey> hggdh, the floor is yours, sir
[17:15] <Daviey> hggdh, seems afk... we will come back
[17:15] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:16] <Daviey> smb, Are you around?
[17:16] <smb> Yes, a bit late but  I am here
[17:16] <smoser> smb, bug 740658 and bug 741224 have popped up in the last few days.
[17:16] <smb> Mostly being trying to bring lucid-ec2 into shape
[17:16] <smoser> both with a fair amount of helpful information.
[17:17]  * Daviey looks
[17:17] <smoser> just wanted to make sure you'd read through them, one follows through to upstream thread https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/629361/
[17:18] <smb> I think I had been looking at them. But I cannot say for sure exactly how things were there
[17:18] <Daviey> smb / smoser: So the main issues with EC2 kernel is with Lucid, not Natty?
[17:18] <smb> I need to get back tehere again
[17:18] <smb> Daviey, There is one for natty afaik
[17:18] <smoser> Daviey, the issues are present in all releases.
[17:18] <smoser> :-(
[17:18] <smb> the java not being installable on t1.micro
[17:19] <smb> But other things tend to go quite a bit back
[17:19] <Daviey> smb, is java on t1.micro looking good for Natty?
[17:19] <smb> Daviey, no the other way round
[17:19] <smb> it is not looking good for natty
[17:19] <smb> but I had not yet time to look back into that
[17:20] <Daviey> smb, ok, thanks
[17:20] <Daviey> smoser, anything else for EC2?
[17:20] <smb> There is one set of patches turning up a lot which changes the way interrupts are handled
[17:20]  * hggdh is back from a phone call
[17:20] <smb> unfortunately those are not really triviall to get back to Lucid (not to mention hardy)
[17:21] <smoser> both t1.micro/java and those listed above are at least potentially bugs on all releases.  i fully trust smb, its just a matter of hours in the day, and as he suggests nothing is trivial
[17:21] <smb> But at least natty should be fine in that respect
[17:21] <Daviey> smb, I'm not sure our users would be too concerned with the fix landing in Hardy tbh.
[17:21] <smb> Daviey, there has been asking
[17:21] <smoser> there are some users who are interested in hardy fixes
[17:21] <Daviey> oh.
[17:22] <Daviey> smb, I was trying to make your life easier. :)
[17:22] <smb> Nothing is impossible for the one that not has to do it. :)
[17:22] <zul> has there been an update kernel for hardy yet?
[17:22] <smb> Anyway those may go to Lucid
[17:22] <smb> But then I still have to get that into there as well
[17:23] <Daviey> Okay... are there any pressing issues for non-ec2 kernels atm?
[17:23] <smb> zul, There has been no update to xen speciafically
[17:23] <zul> smb: cool
[17:23] <smb> I am not sure whether there has not been other changes in between though
[17:24] <smoser> kernel related.... john johansen sent a mail to ubuntu-server mailing list
[17:24] <smoser> asking for input on -virtual kernel.
[17:24] <Daviey> yes!
[17:24] <jjohansen> yep
[17:24] <smoser> please, if the -virtual kernel has affected you, please speak up there.
[17:24] <smb> zul, Actually, maybe you want to check whether you got the same amount of patches in your packatge
[17:24]  * jjohansen was waiting to pitch it
[17:24] <Daviey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-March/005348.html
[17:24] <zul> smb: lets take it off line
[17:24] <smb> There may have been something needing fix for a cve but I lost a bit track of time
[17:24] <smb> ok
[17:25] <Daviey> jjohansen, Do you want to speak?
[17:25] <smb> jjohansen, go
[17:25] <smoser> zul, fyi, hggdh has info on hardy kernel updates as well.
[17:25] <jjohansen> Daviey: not really, I was just going to do a one more thing.  The kernel team is looking for kernel input, please reply to the mail, or hunt me down
[17:26] <jjohansen> I think its been covered
[17:26] <Daviey> super, thanks!
[17:26] <Daviey> It's good to see there is not much concern with the tradional kernel for natty..
[17:26]  * Daviey is happy
[17:26] <Daviey> Thanks smb and jjohansen !
[17:26] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:27] <Daviey> hggdh, floor is yours, sir!
[17:27] <hggdh> thanks
[17:27] <hggdh> we are busy on ISO testing; also still working on the Euca bug
[17:27] <hggdh> no news there yet
[17:28] <hggdh> smoser: ec2 images ready for ISO testing?
[17:28] <smoser> hggdh, yes.
[17:28]  * Daviey has been working with hggdh to try and resolve the euca bug.
[17:28] <smoser> jamespage, is working on this , we're attempting to test through jenkins with the work eh's done there.
[17:29] <Daviey> jamespage, Do you want to comment on the jenkins testing?
[17:29] <jamespage> yep
[17:30] <jamespage> so I executed a full set of tests this afternoon; its thrown up a couple of minor bugs with the testing framework which I will fix ASAP.
[17:30] <jamespage> Results here -> http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/view/natty-ec2/ if anyone wants to take a look
[17:30] <Daviey> jamespage / smoser: Is this expected to be the primary testing, or will traditional testing still be conducted for b1?
[17:30] <hggdh> jamespage: can we consider these results as the "official beta" results?
[17:31] <hggdh> heh
[17:31] <smoser> leaning torwards this being primary
[17:31] <robbiew> +1
[17:31] <Daviey> That should be a good time saving!
[17:31] <jamespage> They are against 20110329
[17:31] <jamespage> so we will need to run again
[17:31] <hggdh> OK
[17:31] <jamespage> Suggest I fix issues
[17:31] <smoser> (not really much time saving... the other tests were all automated as well)
[17:31] <hggdh> I *think* we now have the final ISO -- the .2
[17:32] <jamespage> and they re-run once we think we have a good image for beta 1
[17:32] <Daviey> (candidate)
[17:32] <Daviey> jamespage, Are they triggered automatically?
[17:32] <hggdh> Daviey: yes indeed, the final, er, candidate
[17:32] <Daviey> heh
[17:32] <jamespage> No - thats intentional as they cost $$ to execute.
[17:33] <Daviey> ok, so smoser pings you to fire them?
[17:33] <jamespage> At the moment they have to be submitted individually (which is a bit of a pain)
[17:33] <jamespage> Yes - thats fine.
[17:33] <Daviey> groovy.
[17:33] <Daviey> Anything else for hggdh, or QA related?
[17:34] <hggdh> .. from me
[17:34] <Daviey> hggdh, super... thanks.. I think we'll be talking more this week. :)
[17:34] <Daviey> moving on...
[17:34] <smoser> well, since we're there.
[17:34] <smoser> hold on
[17:34] <Daviey> smoser, go
[17:34] <smoser> so is there anything anyone knows about that should cause respin of 20110329 uec images ?
[17:35] <smoser> (built on taht date ~ 1:00 am UTC)
[17:35] <smoser> manifest http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/current/natty-server-uec-amd64.manifest
[17:36] <Daviey> smoser, Have you already tested those?
[17:36] <smoser> that is what jamespage ran a test on.
[17:36] <Daviey> ah
[17:37] <Daviey> nothing of interest has changed AFAIK.
[17:38] <Daviey> moving on.
[17:38] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team
[17:38] <Daviey> We do have quite alot of docs to do before release.
[17:38] <Daviey> We need to review the current documentation.
[17:38] <Daviey> and some people have WI for new docs.
[17:39] <Daviey> [ACTION] Please review the current documentation.
[17:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Please review the current documentation.
[17:39] <RoAkSoAx> what about the inclusion of new documentation
[17:39] <Daviey> Hopefully we'll be able to touch some docs before next meeting.. if we comment next meeting what we have done, that will help.
[17:40] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Yes, if the current documentation is weak in an area, it needs new documentation :)
[17:40] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:40] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: I mean completely new documentation that I'd like to include
[17:41] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Yes, is that on one of the WI's?
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: I would love to include Cluster Docs
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: which I have made available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/Natty
[17:42] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, That sounds like a good idea.. do you know how to submit it?
[17:42] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: nope, that's why I was asking :)
[17:43] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Okay, I'll take the action of providing guidance to -server ml.
[17:43] <RoAkSoAx> cool ;)
[17:43] <Daviey> (I need to check with the docs team, anyway)
[17:43] <Daviey> [ACTION] Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.
[17:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.
[17:44] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:44] <Daviey> Is there anything new here?
[17:44] <Daviey> any new contributors want to say hello? :)
[17:45] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:45] <Daviey> Anyone have anything else to add?
[17:46] <robbiew> Daviey is the new Ubuntu Server Technical Lead
[17:46] <robbiew> whoohoo
[17:46] <robbiew> heh
[17:46] <RoAkSoAx> \o/
[17:46] <Daviey> STC. :)
[17:46] <jamespage> \o/ - congrats Daviey
[17:46]  * Daviey blushes.
[17:47] <Daviey> moving on gracefully.
[17:47] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[17:47] <Daviey>     Tuesday, April 5 2011 16:00 UTC
[17:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[17:47] <raphink> congrats
[17:47]  * robbiew begins the delegations of time waisting work and meanless duties
[17:47] <robbiew> meaningless
[17:48] <Daviey> oh joy
[17:48] <Daviey> #endmeeting
[17:48] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:48.
[17:58] <JFo> o/
[17:58] <sconklin> \o
[17:58]  * tgardner waves
[17:58] <jjohansen> \o
[17:58] <ppisati> o/
[17:58] <sforshee> o/
[17:59]  * smb is here
[17:59]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:00] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:00] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 8 Blueprints)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (no change)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 22 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * 60 Linux Bugs (down 13)
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
[18:01] <JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
[18:01] <JFo> ..
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
[18:01] <JFo> * I am reviewing the items this week (had planned to do last week, but didn't get to it)
[18:01] <JFo> to determine what, if any, items need to be postponed or require further discussion at UDS. There
[18:01] <JFo> are several items that are relatively straightforward and simply need to have the time allotted
[18:01] <JFo> for them to be completed. I'll plan and implement that schedule for myself also this week.
[18:01] <JFo> ..
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
[18:02] <ogasawara> Beta-1 is this Thursday, March 31.  Beta-1 will ship with the 2.6.38-7.39 kernel which is based on mainline v2.6.38.  Do not expect any further uploads of the kernel until after Beta.  In the mean time we've been queueing patches in the master-next branch including rebasing to the most recent <IP_ADDRESS> stable update.  Also keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is April 14, ~2weeks away.  After kernel freeze we will transition t
[18:02] <ogasawara> o our SRU policy when submitting and accepting patches.  See:
[18:02] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
[18:02] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
[18:02] <ogasawara> I'd like to also note that Kernel Freeze is also the same date as Beta 2.  Any uploads beyond that would likely have to be of the kitten killing nature.
[18:02] <ogasawara> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || We are extending the verification phase of this kernel cycle to two weeks in order to resync with master
[18:03] <sconklin> || Natty interlock schedule.
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || Due to a shortage of testing resources and testing required for the upcoming Natty release, there will
[18:03] <sconklin> || not be a normal two-week kernel release cadence for the next few weeks. The schedule is as follows:
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || kernel  (maverick, lucid) -> proposed  3/25
[18:03] <sconklin> || verification in progress this week
[18:03] <sconklin> || hw cert/qa   - 4/1-4/7
[18:03] <sconklin> || kernel (maveric, lucid) -> update 4/7
[18:03] <sconklin> || kernel ( maverick, lucid?)-> proposed 4/22
[18:03] <sconklin> || verification 4/25-4/29
[18:03] <sconklin> || hw cert/qa - 4/29 - 5/5
[18:03] <sconklin> || kernel (maverick, lucid? ) to update 5/5
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || * We will complete verification (or revert of patches) by this Friday for the current kernels.
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || * We will have no uploads on the 8th of April, effectively skipping one of the two week
[18:03] <sconklin> ||   cycles that we have been on.
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || * We will upload Maverick and Lucid to -proposed on Friday, April 22
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || We still have not found the root cause of a build failure for the hppa architecture for the Hardy
[18:03] <sconklin> || linux-backports-modules package. This must be understood and resolved before we can release the
[18:03] <sconklin> || Hardy kernel packages, so if it is not resolved by the end of this week we will have to delay
[18:03] <sconklin> || the testing phase for Hardy until we understand it.
[18:03] <sconklin> ..
[18:04]  * tgardner is working on it...
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
[18:04] <sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || hardy    linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   ||                      || <IP_ADDRESS>-29.9       ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       || 2.6.24-28.47         || 2.6.24-29.49         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.24    || 2.6.24-28.37         || 2.6.24-29.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || <IP_ADDRESS>.30         || <IP_ADDRESS>.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         || 2.6.24-29.88         ||    3 ||        3 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        4 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || <IP_ADDRESS>.23         || <IP_ADDRESS>.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || <IP_ADDRESS>.36         || <IP_ADDRESS>.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       12 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.60         ||    5 ||        4 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || <IP_ADDRESS>.36         || <IP_ADDRESS>.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || <IP_ADDRESS>4.15        || <IP_ADDRESS>5.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || maverick linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.19         || 2.6.35-28.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.49         || 2.6.35-28.50         ||    5 ||        4 ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:05] <sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information
[18:05] <sconklin> ..
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:06] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:06] <JFo>  453 Natty Bugs (up 94)
[18:06] <JFo>  1238 Maverick Bugs (up 6)
[18:06] <JFo>  1053 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
[18:06] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:06] <JFo> [18:06] <JFo>   * 42 maverick bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 76 lucid bugs (up 1)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo> [18:06] <JFo>   * 217 natty bugs (up 55)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 239 maverick bugs (down 3)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 222 lucid bugs (up 1)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo> [18:06] <JFo>   * 10 natty bugs (up 2)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
[18:06] <JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
[18:06] <JFo> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:07] <JFo> nothing to report on until next week.
[18:07] <JFo> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
[18:07] <JFo> Another pretty slow week for triage.
[18:07] <JFo> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:08] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:08] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:08] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:08.
[18:08] <JFo> thanks bjf
[18:08] <sconklin> Thanks!
[18:08] <sforshee> thanks bjf
[18:56] <fagan> o/
[18:58]  * stgraber waves
[18:58] <fagan> my first meeting in a month
[19:00] <stgraber> not that we actually had many others ;)
[19:00]  * wendar waves
[19:00] <stgraber> last one we were only two attending
[19:00] <fagan> hehe
[19:00] <fagan> well I had tests
[19:00] <stgraber> I guess we might need to restaff the ARB
[19:00] <fagan> and now a job :)
[19:01] <stgraber> as pretty much everyone is busy with a lot of other things and we aren't that many on the board
[19:01] <fagan> well im good to go from here on in
[19:01] <wendar> yes, UDS should be good for that
[19:01] <fagan> well id be looking to continue on the board
[19:01] <fagan> since now I have loads of time
[19:01] <stgraber> cool !
[19:01] <stgraber> btw, I just uploaded "news"
[19:02] <fagan> nice
[19:02] <wendar> excellent!
[19:02] <stgraber> it got approved a while ago. We've been waiting for IS for a few weeks to get the screenshots uploaded
[19:02] <maco> ARB?
[19:02] <fagan> maco: yep
[19:02] <stgraber> then I noticed a few packaging mistakes that I asked to be fixed before uploading
[19:02] <maco> fagan: ENOPARSE
[19:02] <fagan> maco: ??
[19:02] <maco> oh wait i get it now
[19:03] <stgraber> there was just a really small packaging issue remaining but nothing that'd be a problem for the upload, so it should now be on extras.ubuntu.com soon enough
[19:03] <maco> application review board
[19:03] <ajmitch> maco: the meeting currently in progress :P
[19:03] <stgraber> maco: app review board
[19:03] <fagan> maco: hehe
[19:03] <wendar> maco: yes :)
[19:03]  * ajmitch is here for a short time before having to run to work
[19:03] <wendar> #startmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is wendar.
[19:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:03] <wendar> [TOPIC] Review action items
[19:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review action items
[19:04] <wendar> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
[19:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
[19:04] <wendar> some of these we just need to clear out now
[19:05] <wendar> like, conventions for tarballs?
[19:05] <wendar> any problems with deleting it?
[19:06] <fagan> im good with that
[19:06] <wendar> will do
[19:06] <wendar> daily-journal I found out about sideways, when we started getting failure reports on it from Natty
[19:06] <ajmitch> it should go, I think
[19:06] <wendar> it was added in Maverick as the first test app for extras
[19:07] <wendar> ajmitch
[19:07] <fagan> yeah it was
[19:07] <wendar> ajmitch: agreed
[19:07] <stgraber> +1
[19:07] <fagan> +1
[19:07] <wendar> but, it was apparently copied over to Natty when the Natty archive was created
[19:07] <ajmitch> I didn't think it was meant to be used by people, I think we can delete it from the PPA?
[19:07] <wendar> so, needs to be removed from natty too
[19:07] <fagan> wendar: probably
[19:07] <ajmitch> however, we have to check on what deleting it from the PPA will do to extras.ubuntu.com
[19:08] <wendar> does someone want to take on that task?
[19:08]  * fagan wouldnt know who to ask
[19:08] <wendar> fagan: daily-journal was already removed from maverick?
[19:08] <fagan> wendar: nope
[19:08] <wendar> okay
[19:09] <ajmitch> probably start with asking mvo, he might at least know who else to talk to
[19:09]  * wendar looks at stgraber, for expertise in removing things from archive
[19:09] <ScottK> It's probably worth a soyuz bug to now forward copy extras.ubuntu.com when a new release is created.
[19:09] <ScottK> ajmitch: I'd ask wgrant.
[19:09] <ScottK> now/not
[19:09] <wendar> ScottK: yes, definitely worth that
[19:09] <ajmitch> ScottK: right
[19:10] <fagan> so who wants to go do that
[19:10]  * ajmitch can ask him about it
[19:10] <stgraber> wendar: I'd think removing it from our PPA and waiting 24h should do the trick. It won't remove it from users' machine though
[19:10] <wendar> thanks, ajmitch!
[19:11] <wendar> stgraber: I doubt many users have it installed
[19:11] <wendar> stgraber: this guy installed it looking for something entirely different
[19:11] <stgraber> if we want to remove it, we'd need to upload an empty package or something, so I guess just removing it should be fine for now
[19:11] <fagan> well maybe removing it from 11.04 but not maverick just to be sure?
[19:12] <stgraber> hmm, I only see it for natty
[19:12] <stgraber> https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/ppa/+packages
[19:12] <fagan> I dont think it does any harm by just sitting in the archive
[19:12] <fagan> oh then its ok if we remove it
[19:12] <stgraber> mvo: ping
[19:13] <stgraber> mvo: the package description indicates that it's there for software-center testing
[19:13] <stgraber> mvo: and will be removed before release
[19:13] <stgraber> can we consider "before release" as == "now" ?
[19:14] <fagan> I think so
[19:14] <stgraber> and maybe find another way of testing extras.ubuntu.com in the future, even if that's to send an actual app through the review process
[19:14] <ScottK> I think remote removing installed applications from user machines without a very strong reason is a very good idea.
[19:14] <ScottK> ... is not a ...
[19:14] <fagan> well I think its ok for testing in dev releases
[19:15] <ajmitch> ScottK: I don't think we want to do that
[19:15] <fagan> id say it doesnt cause any harm
[19:15] <stgraber> ScottK: agreed
[19:15] <stgraber> removing from PPA now
[19:15] <ScottK> "Canonical remote deleting apps, just like Apple" <-- slashdot.
[19:15] <ScottK> Don't need that.
[19:16] <fagan> :)
[19:16] <wendar> stgraber: thanks
[19:16] <stgraber> ScottK: yeah, the remote removal stuff was discussed at UDS for cases where there is a serious security vulnerability and upstream doesn't provide a fix in a reasonable delay (and we can't find an ARB member willing to fix it)
[19:17]  * fagan remembers that
[19:17] <ScottK> Yep.  That's a bit different than 'oops, it shouldn't have been there and we're getting bug reports now'.
[19:17] <fagan> I dont think thats on a wiki somewhere
[19:17] <wendar> fagan: not yet
[19:17] <stgraber> fagan: it's probably on gobby, maybe on LP but probably not on the wiki ;)
[19:18] <ajmitch> stgraber: the usual breakdown in communications then
[19:18] <stgraber> yeah
[19:19] <fagan> so next?
[19:19] <wendar> the last action item from previous meetings is the submission guide on the wiki
[19:19] <wendar> which is a work in progress
[19:19] <wendar> (good place to add notes on possible actions for security flaws)
[19:19] <wendar> is it worth keeping as an action item for next time
[19:19] <wendar> ?
[19:19] <wendar> as a reminder?
[19:19] <fagan> wendar: id love to spec a meeting to get an api for app submission going
[19:19] <fagan> for the UDS
[19:20] <wendar> yes, good idea
[19:20] <wendar> we may be able to piggyback on some existing code, which would be good
[19:20] <fagan> yeah that would be cool
[19:20]  * ajmitch would like to have had reviewing going smoothly before worrying about that
[19:20] <wendar> I'll tag that as an action item
[19:20] <wendar> ajmitch: well, we had one that went like clockwork
[19:21] <wendar> then it hung for over a month waiting for screenshots
[19:21] <fagan> ajmitch: well id say it would have to be there before the LTS release
[19:21] <fagan> and the review process would be sorted by then anyway
[19:21] <wendar> so, technology is getting in the way of the process
[19:21] <fagan> yeah
[19:22] <wendar> next, proposal reviews...
[19:22] <fagan> I just think it would be good to at least talk about anyway
[19:22] <wendar> definitely
[19:24] <wendar> there's been some work on the "developer console" website that was discussed at last UDS
[19:24] <wendar> just a start, but it has potential for our use
[19:24] <fagan> I dont remember that
[19:24] <wendar> have to poke around and find the blueprint
[19:26] <wendar> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-n-commercial-apps
[19:26] <mvo> stgraber: sorry, missed the ping. indeed, just for testing we should delete it soonish
[19:26]  * fagan has access to canonical wiki now so can actually see that
[19:26] <fagan> the wiki link I mean
[19:27] <wendar> hah, no reason it should be private
[19:27] <wendar> (and actually, the wiki is dead now anyway)
[19:27] <fagan> wendar: well the u1 team uses it a bit
[19:28] <wendar> on to proposals?
[19:28] <stgraber> mvo: ok, I removed it 10min ago
[19:29] <fagan> wendar: I havent looked into the app that im assigned to
[19:29] <fagan> :/
[19:29] <wendar> 4dtris?
[19:29] <fagan> has any one else followed up?
[19:29] <fagan> yep
[19:29] <wendar> [TOPIC] Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)
[19:29] <wendar> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/644443
[19:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)
[19:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/644443
[19:30] <stgraber> I only had one app assigned to me IIRC and was waiting for a new upstream release
[19:30] <fagan> Yeah I havent looked at 4dtris
[19:30] <wendar> fagan: looks like not yet
[19:30] <fagan> yeah
[19:31] <fagan> I poked the code a little but didnt get to look down enough to give a review
[19:31] <stgraber> I just marked pytask as incomplete until we get a new upstream release
[19:31] <wendar> stgraber: good
[19:32]  * ajmitch was waiting for upstream to look at the packaging changes in a branch for simple-stopwatch, and had taken a look at the code of schedio
[19:32] <stgraber> hmm, apparently we don't have auto-expiry turned on for ubuntu-app-review-board so we'll have to manually expire them :)
[19:32] <ajmitch> to be generous, schedio will take some work :)
[19:33] <fagan> stgraber: well that will only be needed if we had an API and a lot of reviews in the queue
[19:33] <wendar> stgraber: given our current speed, that's probably good
[19:33] <wendar> IIRC, SIR was ready to go, just waiting for screenshots
[19:34] <fagan> wasnt that already given the ok?
[19:34]  * fagan cant remember
[19:34] <wendar> yes it was approved
[19:34] <stgraber> wendar: there's screenshots attached, it needs to be put in a branch and merged into the screenshot branch
[19:34] <fagan> ah thats ok
[19:34] <wendar> oh, it also needs the custom metadata fields
[19:34] <ajmitch> what sort of size limit would you put on something for code review?
[19:35] <fagan> ajmitch: I think thats subjective
[19:35] <wendar> stgraber: yes, I offered the developer to do the branch and proposal for merge, then never got to it
[19:35] <stgraber> ajmitch: I wouldn't give a size limit, if it feels too big/complex to you, then it's probably worth rejecting
[19:35] <fagan> you could have 5000 lines of really basic code or 1000 of the most complicated code
[19:35] <ajmitch> fagan: right, I'm just going for generalities, as I look at schedio
[19:36] <fagan> ajmitch: id say more than 2000 is my limit
[19:36] <fagan> id be a little bit afraid of missing something important in more than that
[19:37] <ajmitch> this one rocks in at 15k, mostly repetitive gtk+ coding, but some interesting stuff as well :)
[19:37] <fagan> ajmitch: if its 15k but repeating it could be acceptable
[19:38] <ajmitch> I'd reject it out of hand just looking at it, just don't know the polite way to do so :)
[19:38] <fagan> ajmitch: just say there is a complexity restriction
[19:38] <wendar> that it looks more appropriate to the full review process
[19:38] <fagan> that you are sorry but the application is just too bad for the app review process
[19:38] <fagan> but that they should go to the repo with it
[19:39]  * ajmitch has to leave in a couple of minutes, anyway
[19:40] <wendar> the last two are Tibetsi and harmonySEQ
[19:40] <wendar> new proposals with no shepherds yet
[19:41] <wendar> I can take one, now that news is launched
[19:41]  * fagan has one
[19:42] <wendar> will we get any more apps through the process before Natty is released?
[19:42] <fagan> I dont think we will
[19:42] <stgraber> just looking at tibesti, there seems to be quite a few alternatives in the archive doing a very similar job
[19:42] <fagan> the next meeting is the week before release
[19:43]  * ajmitch has to run now, will read log later
[19:43] <fagan> later ajmitch
[19:44] <wendar> then we should switch to reviewing for entry into Natty (after release)
[19:44] <fagan> id say so
[19:44] <fagan> I dont know really id love to talk about this at the UDS
[19:44] <wendar> yes
[19:44] <stgraber> considering how long it takes to get an app in the repository, it might be worth asking the new ones if they want to apply for 10.10 or 11.04
[19:45] <wendar> especially the fact that the current scheme has us re-reviewing all the apps each time
[19:45] <fagan> I think we should stick to the LTS release after the next LTS is released
[19:45] <wendar> now we've only got 2
[19:45] <wendar> but next cycle, we might have 10 or so
[19:45] <wendar> and the cycle after that,...
[19:45] <fagan> and hop between LTS to LTS
[19:46] <wendar> fagan: that doesn't quite fit with the idea of getting apps on "the current release"
[19:46] <wendar> or at least, it's only half the story
[19:46] <stgraber> wendar: don't they have to re-apply for that ? I'm guessing part of the apps will be in the archive or superseded by something else. So it'll definitely get worse with time, but not necessarily a lot worse.
[19:46] <fagan> wendar: well the LTS is supposed to be the target of of apps that are going to get use for a long time
[19:46] <wendar> stgraber: they do have to reapply, which means we have to re-review
[19:46] <fagan> and id say that app developers would like to have their app in the repo for the longest time
[19:47] <wendar> stgraber: it should be easier than the first review, if there were no changes, though
[19:47] <stgraber> wendar: reviewing a new version is just a matter of checking the delta, so it should go a lot faster at least.
[19:47] <fagan> so if it goes to the LTS release and then gets mirrored to the normal releases (where possible) it would work
[19:48] <wendar> fagan: well, the idea was that ARB apps wouldn't be used for a long time... but, probably something to talk about at UDS
[19:48] <fagan> yeah
[19:48] <fagan> too bad im not traveling again
[19:48] <wendar> in general, UDS seems like a good time to take stock of what we've done so far
[19:49] <wendar> fagan: we'll get you in on IRC
[19:49] <fagan> wendar: yeah id love if I could go on mumble or something instead
[19:49] <fagan> but I suppose IRC would be ok
[19:49] <wendar> fagan: yeah, I think they had that set up last time too
[19:50] <stgraber> we can quite easily arrange using skype/mumble if listening to the stream + IRC isn't working well enough
[19:50] <wendar> but, we should talk on the mailing list ahead of time too
[19:50] <fagan> yeah well I can get stuff across by talking a lot easier than IRC
[19:51] <fagan> and its sometimes easy to miss stuff on IRC when talking in the room
[19:51] <fagan> anyway any more reviews?
[19:52] <wendar> that's all
[19:52] <fagan> cool
[19:52] <fagan> good meeting
[19:52] <wendar> who wants to chair next time?
[19:52] <fagan> I can do it
[19:52] <wendar> great, thanks!
[19:53] <wendar> #endmeeting
[19:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:53.
[19:53] <fagan> oh the mootbot got an update
[19:53]  * fagan hasnt seenthat
[19:53] <fagan> *seen that
[19:59] <soren> How can you tell?
[19:59] <soren> fagan: ^
[19:59] <fagan> soren: the time the meeting finished on
[19:59] <fagan> I havent seen the MootBot in so long
[19:59] <fagan> :)
[19:59] <soren> It's the same isn't it? UTC-5?
[20:00] <soren> A remarkably useless default, by the way.
[20:00] <stgraber> yeah, US central time seems quite weird ;) I'd have been fine with US eastern or UTC ...
[20:01] <fagan> UTC would be the most useful
[20:01] <soren> Yeah.


[10:17] <darkxst> jbicha, slack was never anything more than an experiment
[10:17] <darkxst> but probably we should remove it from the topic etc if its dead
[21:12] <EldonMcGuinness> Any word on Gnome 3.24? Is it expected in 17.x?
[21:14] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuGNOME#Highlights
[21:35] <EldonMcGuinness> Cheers for that jbicha, wonder if there is a timeline for 17.x Ubuntu-Gnome builds


[19:13] <spridel> heya stlsaint you back stateside?
[19:25] <stlsaint> spridel: yea, giving a class session in #ubuntu-classroom right now, gimme a sec
[19:25] <stlsaint> but yes i am back in texas
[19:26] <spridel> good to hear your back safely
[19:28] <stlsaint> thanks


[19:54] <atamira> morning
[19:55] <atamira> overcast day in auckland today. lets hope it rains
[19:56] <ibeardslee> some rain would be good about the country, but if it can give a bit overnights and then it can do during the day next week
[19:56] <thumper> beautiful day here in Dunners


[04:11] <Meisterbrau> hello ubuntu mozilla team do you support linux mint? ive got a question youve had million times over regarding the adobe flash plug in
[04:11] <Meisterbrau> no matter what i do i cannot get it....
[04:12] <Meisterbrau> follow instructions to a T doesnt work.....follow the commands in Ehow....never works
[04:12] <Meisterbrau> and ive about had it with the adobe flash plug in garbage after 6 months
[04:12] <Meisterbrau> how do you get rid of the plug in? esp when the instructions will not work
[04:13] <Meisterbrau> why does firefox even support adobe garbage? seems proprietary malicious and against the principles of firefox
[04:15] <Meisterbrau> ok i ll have to try again another time thx


[09:34] <blr> wgrant: that seems to be working better with the expanders (less code too), although I seem to have introduced a validation regression - will get to that tomorrow.
[09:34] <wgrant> blr: Great.
[09:34] <wgrant> Let me know if you run into any trouble.
[09:34] <blr> thanks - I'll be in town for an hour and a bit in the morning to pickup a monitor, but back before lunch.
[09:35] <blr> looking forward to no longer hunching over my laptop :P
[09:35] <wgrant> You've been single-monitor all this time?
[09:35] <wgrant> My condolences.
[09:36] <cjwatson> I'm not *totally* sure that my dual-monitor setup is exactly ergonomic, with the RH one being above and to the right of my laptop
[09:36] <cjwatson> But it's better than being single-monitor ...
[09:36] <blr> made sure the panel is vesa mountable - will be good to have two eventually.
[09:38] <cjwatson> My T450s is on the right continent now, so hopefully running 1920x1080 + 1600x1200 won't be too hideously confusing
[09:45] <wgrant> Yay
[10:25] <cjwatson> wgrant: You're right (git-merged-revno), it's much simpler to put merged_revision in the model, thanks.
[10:26] <wgrant> cjwatson: I'd call it something displayish if it were expected, but merged_revision is fine internally.
[10:26] <wgrant> ...
[10:26] <wgrant> s/expected/exported/
[10:27] <cjwatson> Yeah, I didn't export it
[10:28] <wgrant> Bah
[10:28] <wgrant> Goddammit, branchrevision
[10:28] <cjwatson> ?
[10:28] <wgrant> You can't have been that cold.
[10:28] <wgrant> Just a failed scan despite a few pushes during the day.
[10:29] <wgrant> cjwatson: Have you heard anything about git support in mojo?
[10:29] <cjwatson> Nope
[10:30] <wgrant> Tempted to switch something like turnip git-ward now that things are generally functional.
[10:31] <cjwatson> But mojo is definitely an issue there.
[10:31] <cjwatson> I guess we could run an import.
[10:31] <wgrant> Yeah, as long as we don't use gpgsig the import will be fine.
[10:31] <wgrant> We should dogfood at least *something* ASAP now it's reasonable.
[10:32] <wgrant> And the lack of CI on turnip makes it an easy target :)
[10:32] <wgrant> Also it'
[10:32] <cjwatson> I suspect the firewall will need a tweak
[10:32] <wgrant> s a git server hosted on bzr.
[10:32] <cjwatson> For self-imports
[10:32] <wgrant> Not just a firewall tweak, but yeah.
[10:32] <wgrant> Anything under .launchpad.net is blacklisted.
[10:33] <cjwatson> I wanted to finish merge detection before we started dogfooding.
[10:33] <cjwatson> Otherwise it'll just be annoying
[10:33] <wgrant> True.
[10:33] <wgrant> I was thinking that distro MPs didn't do it, so it couldn't be too annoying.
[10:33] <wgrant> But it's distro *branches* that don't.
[10:35] <cjwatson> Yeah, there are XXX comments about that
[10:35] <wgrant> (also I assumed something based on UDD being reasonable, which is itself unreasonable)
[10:35] <cjwatson> Much easier to have sensible logic without branch lifecycles.
[10:36] <wgrant> Quite.
[10:36] <wgrant> Deletable branches are cool.
[11:06] <cjwatson> wgrant: One reason I included target_default on the form for now is that otherwise if you retarget a repository to personal and back then the target defaultness goes away and you don't know why and have no UI way to restore it.
[11:07] <cjwatson> But I agree that the permission limit there is problematic.
[11:08] <cjwatson> Perhaps it should simply not be possible to retarget a target default.
[11:15] <wgrant> cjwatson: The lack of UI way to restore it will go away once the product config page is reworked.
[11:16] <cjwatson> Yeah.  Retargeting a target default repository is a slightly weird thing to do anyway, though, and has lots of intersecting permissions.
[11:17] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:17] <wgrant> It's inconsistent with the owner-target default checkbox.
[11:17] <wgrant> But the permissions for that are much less intractable.
[11:17] <cjwatson> Exactly.
[11:17] <cjwatson> That's just edit plus checking that there's no conflict.
[11:18] <wgrant> Yep
[11:19] <cjwatson> I'll work on something to make the target uneditable with an explanatory message in this case.
[16:57] <cjwatson> wgrant: What's the modern equivalent of the onKeyPress thing you called out in https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/git-repository-ui-edit-target/+merge/261232 ?
[16:57] <cjwatson> I can't find anything in LP that's using anything different
[20:51] <blr> cjwatson: I'm not certain, but perhaps he was suggesting adding an event handler to the JS rather than using the widget event?
[21:58] <cjwatson> blr: I'm still at the cargo-culting level with LP JS :-/
[21:58] <cjwatson> Or JS in general really
[21:59] <cjwatson> Are you thinking of something to do with YUI.Event?
[22:00] <cjwatson> Oh, there are some .on('keypress', blah) calls in our JS
[22:00] <cjwatson> OK, that I can work with, looks straightforward enough
[22:01] <blr> cjwatson: you might want to clarify with wgrant, but at a guess that's what he meant.
[22:02] <cjwatson> Yeah, it makes sense now that I've found it
[22:02] <blr> cool :)
[22:02] <cjwatson> Ideally I'd figure out how to make the JS live with the widget, mind
[22:03] <cjwatson> But I guess it's already separate


[05:10] <cxo> Trying to do some research on canadian copyright law and software licensing. Want to confirm that software licenses are invalid as part of contract law in Canada.
[05:15] <hypatia> cxo: "software licenses" as in "gpl/bsd" or as in eulas?
[05:15] <hypatia> i've never heard of either being blanketly invalid in canada, either way
[05:16] <cxo> well EULAs are just proprietary software licenses, so both i guess
[05:17] <hypatia> not exactly - eula's cover the binary; source code in proprietary software is just under regular copyright
[05:17] <hypatia> whereas Free licenses cover both binary and code
[05:17] <hypatia> with the same license
[05:17] <hypatia> but yeah, i've never heard of any of them being invalid under canadian contract law
[05:17] <hypatia> any idea where you heard that, cxo ?
[05:18] <cxo> That's the conclusion I've come to after reading the Canadian Copyright Act (C41) and Contract Law
[05:19] <cxo> GPL and friends, grant the user permissions that are usually only restricted to the copyright owner,  so that would be OK in sense that it doesnt try and take away constitutional rights given by the Copyright Act. But things like the EULA start imposing things that the Copyright Act explicitly gives you permission to do
[05:19] <cxo> rather, most EULAs
[05:20] <hypatia> there's a difference between certain provisions of a EULA being unenforceable vs. them being "invalid as part of contract law"
[05:20] <hypatia> see also "blue pencilling"
[05:21] <hypatia><EMAIL_ADDRESS>from debian-legal says GPL is likely enforceable in canada
[05:21] <hypatia> i'm sure portions of EULAs would also be invalid in the US and elsewhere
[05:22] <hypatia> the right of first sale, for example
[05:24] <cxo> well the GPL is enforceable because it is basically just transferring rights from owner to user. But not all software  licenses do that. Once you start telling people what they can't do, it becomes illegal, if the Copyright Act says otherwise. Thats why I see most software licenses not being enforceable in Canada
[05:24] <hypatia> you get the idea of blue pencilling, though, right?
[05:25] <hypatia> and i'm not sure that EULAs would fall under the purview of the Copyright act rather than just general contract law
[05:25] <hypatia> what specific part of contract law do you think renders EULAs invalid?
[05:25] <cxo> (can't seem to find a good definition of blue penciling)
[05:28] <cxo> It isn't contract law per se, as in, contract law is just between two people/entities and is enforceable. But the point that it is only enforceable if it is not contradictory to existing law and in this case the Copyright Act
[05:30] <hypatia> i'm not sure the copyright act applies over a regular contract, though
[05:31] <hypatia> blue pencilling is basically "editing down" portions of a contract which are unreasonable or contrary to law
[05:31] <hypatia> so like "we asked for this, but this is what's actually allowed under the law"
[05:32] <cxo> oh ok, i get that, yes i suppose thats fine.
[05:32] <hypatia> it's not really a question of fine or not, it's how the law works :)
[05:33] <cxo> no what i meant is, I understood that and in agreement to how the law works
[05:33] <hypatia> ah gotcha :)
[05:34] <cxo> Thus the EULA/license is always valid and only parts are invalidated on a point-by-point basis by federal or provincial law
[05:35] <hypatia> well, it would vary case by case
[05:35] <hypatia> it's certainly possible that the whole EULA would be overbroad
[05:35] <hypatia> and get thrown out
[05:35] <cxo> yes
[05:35] <hypatia> but blue-pencilling it down is more likely
[05:35] <hypatia> unless it's really egregious / obvious
[05:37] <cxo> Canadian copyright act does not make any mention of software. There is a C-32 on the table to modernize it but not sure if it will get passed
[05:37] <hypatia> doesn't matter if it's mentioned in the current law
[05:37] <hypatia> contract and common law still apply
[05:40] <cxo> Yes, I don't doubt that. I think my wording was poor when I asked that.
[05:41] <hypatia> cxo: law is all about being pedantic, apologies if it seemed like i was picking at your words :)
[05:41]  * hypatia was raised by a feral pack of lawyers
[05:41] <cxo> The very nature of most EULAs is to restrict usage. eg. Take this business of reverse engineering. Its one of those things that is on most proprietary software licenses or EULAs
[05:42] <cxo> Since we dont have a DMCA or an equivalent, how would that be dealt with in Canada
[05:43] <cxo> (pulls up the popular microsoft eula to look for some examples)
[05:44] <cxo> "You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation." Now in Canada, there is nothing about _explicitly_ permitting or prohibiting reverse engineering
[05:44] <cxo> (sorry that exert was from the Microsoft Windows EULA)
[05:46] <hypatia> right, which is why MS would have to take you to /civil/, not criminal, court if you RE'd their product
[05:47] <cxo> I suppose it will then come down to what your intent was and not the act of RE
[05:47] <hypatia> likely, yes
[05:50] <cxo> Are you following this business of Blizzard and the Battle Net 2.0 RE case
[05:50] <hypatia> nope
[05:50] <hypatia> got a link handy?
[05:53] <cxo> not the legal docs but here is a little blurb, http://au.gamespot.com/news/6282171.html
[05:54] <cxo> This stuff is so completely alien to Canadian law it was be quite comical to see this go down in a Canadian court
[05:54] <cxo> s/was/would
[05:54] <hypatia> it never would, because the DMCA offers so much more traction
[05:55] <hypatia> that's why most of the interesting RE work happens in europe
[05:56] <cxo> Yeah, i've noticed that. But why not Canada
[05:57] <cxo> "When users of the Hacks download, install, and use the Hacks, they copy StarCraft II copyrighted content into their computer's RAM in excess of the scope of their limited license, as set forth in the EULA and ToU, and create derivative works of StarCraft II."  </gamespot article>
[05:59] <hypatia> cxo: not sure why not canada.  lots of crypto work is done here, though (see: openssl, openssh, openswan)
[06:01] <cxo> And with the advent of the Internet. Would you be breaking the US law, if you an American were to do anything prohibited by the DMCA online on a server in Canada/Europe
[06:02] <cxo> ... physically being in the US and "virtually" acting in another country
[06:05] <hypatia> cxo: non-americans who "violate" the dmca have been arrested in the past when they set foot in the US
[06:05] <hypatia> see the Dimitri Skylarov case
[06:05] <hypatia> even when the violation happened outside the US
[06:05] <hypatia> it's scary shit
[06:05] <hypatia> that's why the iphone dev team folks conceal their identities
[06:06] <cxo> Yes it is scary. These provisions were intended to protect the weak. Now its being used to attack the weak.
[06:07] <hypatia> well, they are being used to attack the strong, too
[06:07] <hypatia> cf. patent trolling
[06:07] <hypatia> nothing weak about RIM and MS, and they get patent trolled all the time
[06:08] <cxo> Software Patents dont exist in Canada right?
[06:08] <cxo> As far as I know the US is the only place you can patent software
[06:11] <hypatia> i don't think either of those statements are correct
[06:11] <hypatia> just because there's no specific legislation saying you /can/ patent sw, doesn't mean you can't just go ahead and do it
[06:12] <cxo> and i dont think you can patent an algorithm either, "    "No patent shall issue for ... any mere scientific principle or abstract theorem."
[06:15] <cxo> see the last paragraph, http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr01090.html#sec8
[06:16] <cxo> Need to find a definition of "invention" as per the Canadian IP law
[06:18] <cxo> Invention= "process, machine, manufacture, composition of matter"
[06:21] <cxo> see chapter 2, http://www.jurisdiction.com/itpatents.pdf
[06:22] <hypatia> interesting
[06:22] <hypatia> it'd also be interesting to just look for existing .ca software patents
[06:22] <hypatia> that'll tell you how it's being interpreted :)
[06:22] <hypatia> and software patents don't typically just include "abstract theorems" so that doesn't really apply
[06:25] <cxo> yes, as long as it actually does something, then it gets closer to being allowed
[06:26] <cxo> go to page 18 of that doc
[06:27] <cxo> "software that has been integrated with statutory subject matter may be patentable. For a method to qualify as statutory subject matter, it must involve a physical act upon a physical object producing a physical change in character or condition, and ii) produce an essentially economic result relating to trade, industry, or commerce."
[06:28] <cxo> "essential economic result" haha
[06:28] <cxo> (and the lawyers go wild)
[08:00]  * KombuchaKip mumbles to himself that he will make the first public announcement regarding Avaneya shortly and, for those who are not on it, but interested, recommends you get on the mailing list (www.avaneya.com).
[08:05] <cxo> Why is that?
[08:27] <KombuchaKip> cxo: Why do I mumble to myself or why am I making a public announcement?
[08:27] <KombuchaKip> cxo: If the former, I'm probably going senile prematurely.
[08:28] <cxo> I know why you were mumbling. But not what you were mumbling about.
[08:30] <KombuchaKip> cxo: There is a mailing list for the game that I am going to announce via. There's a lot of folks from ubuntu-ca that have been tracking the project, hence the mentioning it here.
[08:31] <cxo> What kind of game is it? Got any youtube footage?
[08:33] <KombuchaKip> cxo: Sorry man, it's late and I need to hit the sack. Take a look at website and faq on www.avaneya.com Good night.
[15:59] <benasp> Hi, I have a little question I run Office 2007 on wine and even though I installer MS font, the font displayed arn't quite right. When I compare what I see in wine and in virtualbox running the same file the font are different. Someone have an idea ? thank a lot
[16:06] <hypatia> benasp: did you install the ms fonts for wine or for ubuntu?
[16:07] <hypatia> benasp: i expect wine has its own font path
[16:07] <benasp> I installed corefonts via winetrick
[16:09]  * hypatia uses crossover for ms office, sooooo worth the $40 :)
[19:21] <cxo> apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer
[21:39] <hiko_hitokiri> Good afternoon
[21:42] <BobJonkman> Hello hiko_hitokiri !
[21:42] <hiko_hitokiri> hi! BobJonkman
[21:43] <BobJonkman> Here for the Ubuntu IRC chat in a few hours?
[21:45] <hiko_hitokiri> yes
[21:47] <hypatia> oh right!
[21:47] <hypatia> thanks for the reminder, BobJonkman :D
[21:48] <BobJonkman> Said Mahatma:  I must go, for they are leaving and I am their leader
[22:14] <dscassel> woo, meeting!
[22:14] <dscassel> (not yet, of course)
[22:51] <alexbh> hi, can sombody help me ... i have a question about my RAM
[22:55] <hypatia> alexbh: ask away :)
[22:55] <hypatia> and in the future, don't ask to ask, just ask
[22:55] <hypatia> saves everyone typing
[22:56] <alexbh> ko... the thing is... my RAM use is almost 50% but I m not using anything
[22:56] <cxo> How do you know its 50%?
[22:57] <hypatia> alexbh: what processes are taking it up?
[22:59] <alexbh> with "top", I get: gnome-system-moonitor, firefox
[23:01] <dscassel> alexbh: are you actually running Firefox? Are all the windows closed?
[23:02]  * dscassel noticed a pretty serious memory leak in gnome-power-manager on my desktop machine. Had to get rid of it.
[23:03] <alexbh> i killed firefox now...
[23:03] <dscassel> That helps. :)
[23:03] <alexbh> but still... it is 23%
[23:04] <dscassel> 23% of what?
[23:04] <alexbh> and now... the only thing i have is the Xchat and the system montor
[23:04] <alexbh> 23% of use of RAM
[23:04] <dscassel> Yeah, but how much RAM? Trying to figure out if it's reasonable.
[23:05] <alexbh> ahh ok .. I have 1G so... 23% = 233 MB
[23:05] <dscassel> Like, right now, I have 40% RAM in use. But I've got Firefox and Gwibber going.
[23:05] <dscassel> alexbh: Yeah, that's not unreasonable for a gnome desktop.
[23:06] <hypatia> xchat is not exactly lightweight
[23:06] <alexbh> which one to use instead?
[23:08] <hypatia> i use irssi
[23:08] <hypatia> but it's commandline :s
[23:08] <hypatia> alexbh: http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi , if you're feeling ambitious :)
[23:08] <alexbh> ummm  i ll have a llok
[23:08] <alexbh> look
[23:09] <dscassel> Look at it this way: you RAM isn't going to do you any good if you're not using it. :)
[23:13] <alexbh_> hi.... im here again.. this time via command line.. but still 22%
[23:16] <hypatia> alexbh_: ah, so it's not xchat
[23:16] <hypatia> must just be gnome then :/
[23:17] <alexbh_> i closed xchat and now i did login wit irssi
[23:55] <BobJonkman> We're all here for the meeting, right?
[23:57] <hypatia> i am!
[23:57] <dscassel> Yup!
[23:58] <BobJonkman> Yay!
[23:58] <BobJonkman> ...and anyone who's not here for the meeting, Welcome to the meeting! (any minute now)
[23:59] <dscassel> No txwikinger again. He's been busy lately...


[20:01] <ricotz> tjaalton, hi, did you thought about doing a new intel-xorg-driver snapshot?
[20:09] <tjaalton> ricotz: could happen, now that it's barely used anymore :)
[20:21] <ricotz> tjaalton, I forced it here since some time ;)
[20:21] <ricotz> I guess I should try glamour again
[20:22] <ricotz> without it the resolution selection on my Intel Iris was broken
[20:23] <ricotz> so if it is pretty safe to do, please go ahead and make a new one :)
[20:25] <mamarley> My NUC has an Iris 540 and Glamour seems to work fine on that.
[20:26] <mamarley> Unrelated, but Kernel 4.8 introduced a bug with my Skylake system at work, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97878
[20:51] <tjaalton> yeah watermark issues still, should be fixed soon
[20:52] <tjaalton> ricotz: -intel is quite liberal in adding modes that the edid doesn't list
[20:54] <tjaalton> mamarley: you should test nightly or drm-intel-next
[21:01] <tjaalton> oh and it's glamor :)
[21:04] <mamarley> tjaalton: You mean http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/drm-intel-nightly/ ?
[21:13] <tjaalton> yes
[21:13] <mamarley> OK, I will try that tomorrow when I get back to work.
[21:51] <ricotz> tjaalton, I meant I forced to use the intel-xorg-driver to make it work again
[21:52] <tjaalton> ricotz: I know
[21:53] <ricotz> so I doubt it was a problem of an incomplete edid
[21:53] <ricotz> but I havent switched it back since then, maybe it works now
[21:53] <tjaalton> no it doesn't
[21:53] <tjaalton> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97163
[21:53] <tjaalton> because of what I said
[21:54] <ricotz> ah ok, thanks