[18:33] <topdownjimmy> Is this the channel for the community documentation, or the official documentation?


[05:39] <ComputerChic> Hi all:P
[05:39] <ComputerChic> :)
[05:40] <Ddorda> morning
[05:40] <ComputerChic> Hi
[05:41] <ComputerChic> I am new to this channel.
[05:46] <Ddorda> ComputerChic: welcome
[07:01] <YoBoY> bonjour
[07:06] <YoBoY> good morning
[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[12:19] <mhall119> morning
[12:19] <mhall119> did everyone get their humble indie bundle?
[12:19] <mhall119> Revenge of the Titans is horribly addictive
[12:22] <czajkowski> eh
[12:44] <cjohnston> mornin
[12:47] <czajkowski> ello
[12:47] <cjohnston> hey czajkowski how goes?
[12:47] <czajkowski> slowly but surely
[12:47] <czajkowski> how's you
[12:48] <cjohnston> tired sore... been a long week
[14:01] <Ddorda> hey guys


[08:34] <soren> I have a lot of identical machines. They have multiple NIC's (different chips and different drivers). 19 times out of 20, they come up with the 10G one being eth0 and the 1G one being eth1, but 1 time out of 20, it's the other way around. What are my best options for handling this? Can I specify a order in which the drivers get to initialise?
[08:47] <soren> I'm thinking there must be something I'm overlooking. How does netcfg/choose_interface make sense with nondeterministic NIC naming?
[09:20] <soren> cjwatson: I'm staring at biosdevname for a bit. I think I see a bug, but I'm a bit confused how this is supposed to work.
[09:20] <soren> cjwatson: Some of biosdevname's magic is in a base-install.d hook, but how does the udeb get installed to begin with?
[09:22] <soren> cjwatson: Anyway, the bug is that the base-installer.d hook doesn't actually allow you to prevent biosdevname from getting installed.
[09:22] <soren> cjwatson: For each word in /proc/cmdline, it'll call "apt-install biosdevname".
[09:22] <soren> cjwatson: Except if the word is "biosdevname=0"
[09:31] <soren> cjwatson: Ah, it's included in d-i's base set.
[11:02] <cjwatson> soren: Oh, wow, that's a horrible bug, nice catch.  Could you file that, since I'm pretty sure I'll want to backport a fix for 12.04.3?
[11:03] <cjwatson> soren: As far as netcfg goes, you can tell it to pick an interface by mac address, which hooks into the syslinux mechanism for telling userspace what mac address it was pxe-booted from; does that help?
[11:11] <soren> cjwatson: Not really.
[11:11] <soren> cjwatson: I want the 10G nic.
[11:12] <soren> cjwatson: If I could force that driver to load first, I'd be golden.
[11:12] <soren> cjwatson: biosdevname may do the trick, though.
[11:12] <soren> cjwatson: Sure, I'll file that bug.
[11:15] <soren> bug 1134227
[11:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1134227 in biosdevname (Ubuntu) "biosdevname always gets installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134227
[11:16] <soren> Truth be told I don't know if it actually always does get installed (I haven't actually ever installed anything newer than precise from scratch), but looking at that code, it would be.
[11:16] <soren> The logic is broken for sure.
[11:16] <cjwatson> You're almost certainly correct.  I don't feel the need to verify.
[11:17] <cjwatson> Oh, indeed, since precise didn't have that same code it doesn't have that bug.
[11:17] <cjwatson> But having a bug doesn't hurt anyway :)
[11:18] <cjwatson> So you could try installing with biosdevname=1 (or quantal, which has that by default) and see if you get non-eth* names for the NICs.
[11:18] <soren> cjwatson: I have that queued up for testing later today or tomorrow.
[11:19] <soren> cjwatson: If that works for these systems, I'm probably in good shape. I guess I'm just surprised this hasn't been more of a problem for others in the past.
[11:19] <cjwatson> Well, it was one of the motivations for biosdevname
[11:20] <soren> True.
[11:20] <soren> Well, /me -> lunch
[11:20] <soren> Thanks!
[12:14] <xnox> In the latest design proposal we want to show light bulbs (orange or dark dots) to indicate how many plugin pages there are & how many are done in the progress section.
[12:14] <xnox> this means that "expander with the skip button and terminal" are in the way.
[12:15] <xnox> I'm thinking to move those into a notebook page which one can switch to with "Ctrl-u" (aka which is typically used in web-browsers as show html source of the page)
[12:15] <xnox> and also display "details" url link in the bottom right corner, if one is running in ubiquity debug mode.
[12:16] <xnox> (although details url link may be redundant)
[12:16] <xnox> thoughts?
[12:20] <cjwatson> How about making the descriptive text only take up part of the horizontal width, and putting the light bulbs at the right alongside it, or similar?
[12:20] <cjwatson> Or, we could hide the expander until the point where the light bulbs stop being useful (since they're no longer relevant once you've answered all the questions)
[12:21] <cjwatson> So you answer all the questions and then the light bulbs are replaced by the progress widget etc.
[12:21] <xnox> ok.
[12:21] <cjwatson> Ctrl-u: this kind of thing is acceptable if and only if it's discoverable, IMO, which seems a bit tricky?
[12:22] <cjwatson> I'd never guess Ctrl-u even with the analogy with web browsers.  Ubiquity looks nothing much like a web browser so that's not a key combination I'd expect to work.
[12:22] <cjwatson> So I'd still prefer something visible if possible.
[12:22] <xnox> (x) (x) (o) (o) => (line1: expander/text \n line2: [[12:22] <xnox> cjwatson: ok.
[12:23]  * xnox should make new visuals public.
[12:23] <cjwatson> Maybe in debug mode the expander etc. could always be visible?
[12:23] <cjwatson> It's genuinely useful when working on the installer
[12:24] <xnox> true. currently one cannot get to it from the very first screen though.
[12:24] <xnox> which does already print activity.
[12:26] <xnox> there is also bug 1074375
[12:26] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1074375 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Progress text looks needlessly geeky" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074375
[12:26] <xnox> which makes a good point that it's too discoverable for uninitiated.
[12:40] <cjwatson> xnox: I don't mind it being more discreet as long as people who know they want progress information can get hold of it
[12:41] <cjwatson> Matthew's suggestion for modifying the presentation seems reasonable though ... it's certainly not meant to look editable
[12:49] <cjwatson> xnox: U1> Looks pretty good; I don't have any fundamental objections.  My one suggestion is that I think it could be a little clearer that you don't have to do this in order to complete installation.
[12:50] <cjwatson> I realise we probably have business reasons to encourage people in the direction of a U1 login by default, but "Log in later" really does imply that you're going to *need* to do this at some point
[12:50] <xnox> cjwatson: each and every screen has "Do it later" or "Skip to finish installation" (not sure what's the latest final string). Apart from dead-end pages (e.g. moving to legal notice page / futher details, have only a back button)
[12:50] <cjwatson> I think it could use some explanatory text.
[12:51] <xnox> ok.
[12:51] <xnox> "do it later" may be true in the future, once users will be able to on-the-fly purchase media & apps directly from the dash in an approx. one click fashion.
[12:52] <cjwatson> It still won't be mandatory
[12:52] <xnox> sure.
[12:53] <cjwatson> I'm all for encouraging people to use our services - I just think that if the services are actually compelling then we shouldn't need to make deceptive implications in the installer about whether they're mandatory or optional :)
[12:53] <cjwatson> And IME people respond better to honesty
[12:54] <cjwatson> Anyway, it should just be a minor tweak from here
[12:54] <xnox> I like the new final / reboot screen with a big logo a lot =)))
[16:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Was your d-i upload premature, given that linux-signed was in NEW?
[16:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Or does d-i not actually use the kernel-signed-image udeb?
[16:48] <cjwatson> It does.  I didn't notice
[16:48] <infinity> I see no mention of the udeb in the build log, just the if vmlinuz*signed shell snippet.
[16:48] <cjwatson> Was trying to clear bug 1134123
[16:48] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1134123 in Ubuntu CD Images "Raring server installations fail with kernel mismatch with 20130227 images" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134123
[16:48] <cjwatson> It's in build/pkg-lists/kernel
[16:48] <cjwatson> May not mention it if it's missing
[16:49] <infinity> Possibly not, yeah.
[16:49] <infinity> Oh well, I'll just no-change rebuild it after the next publisher run hits disk.
[16:50] <cjwatson> Ta
[16:50] <cjwatson> Could you respin server once that's landed?
[16:50] <cjwatson> And close that bug above
[16:50] <infinity> Cando.
[16:50] <cjwatson> Assuming you'll be around a bit later than me
[16:50] <infinity> I'm here all day.
[16:59] <infinity> cjwatson: Though, I'm curious why there was a mismatch that needed fixing at all.
[17:00] <infinity> cjwatson: Given that -8- was happily stuck in proposed, waiting on d-i...
[17:00] <cjwatson> Yeah, not totally sure and I didn't really investigate
[17:01] <infinity> Feb 27 07:18:05 main-menu[1735]: DEBUG: resolver (libc6-udeb): package doesn't exist (ignored)
[17:01] <infinity> That seems unexpected, or is it really not on the CD?
[17:03] <cjwatson> Should be in the initrd IIRC
[17:03] <cjwatson> Library reduction and all
[17:03] <infinity> Oh, right, so that's just the resolver being unhelpfully verbose when what it really should say is "already installed, skipping" or nothing at all.
[17:04] <infinity> I guess anna/udpkg don't have a status DB to check such things against?  I've never really looked into the architecture.
[17:04] <cjwatson> They do but I think libc6-udeb is still a weird special case or something
[17:04] <cjwatson> I tend not to care unless something's actively breaking :)
[17:05] <infinity> A good philosophy.
[17:05] <cjwatson> There is certainly a /var/lib/dpkg/status in the d-i env though
[20:24] <stgraber> cjwatson: was it you who mentioned problems with the tftp client in grub2?
[20:25] <stgraber> cjwatson: I got an action item from last UDS to test PXE boot with UEFI/SecureBoot and IPv6. I just did a test with IPv4 and grub2 loads fine, grabbing all its modules and the config, but fails to grab the kernel/initrd with some kind of network error
[20:26] <stgraber> poking from the shell, I can see it has the IP, DNS and routes right, but the tftp part is somehow failing
[20:26]  * stgraber checks that the grub image is the latest one from raring
[20:29] <stgraber> cjwatson: "error: couldn't send network packet."
[20:31] <stgraber> oh, actually, all commands give me that error, not only those that obviously need to fetch stuff from the network. (lsmod gives me the same error for example)
[22:14] <cjwatson> stgraber: Steve reported to me that those exist
[22:15] <cjwatson> stgraber: If you can get me instructions for constructing a reproduction case in kvm/OVMF, I expect I can fix it from that
[22:21] <stgraber> cjwatson: will be tricky with OVMF as IIRC we don't have network support built into the firmware we have in the archive
[22:22] <cjwatson> Or even any reproduction case that doesn't involve an excessively complex network - if I can start it from the EFI shell on a test machine maybe?
[22:22] <cjwatson> Something that I can iterate on
[22:23] <cjwatson> (Bearing in mind I don't really have EFI netbooting infrastructure at the moment in general, though I could bring it up in principle)
[22:23] <cjwatson> I was hoping for OVMF since that's easier, but you make a good point ;-)
[22:23] <stgraber> hmm, I wonder if booting the same binaries from a usb stick would be enough. I'll have to test that.
[22:24] <cjwatson> I have two EFI test machines at the moment; neither is SB-capable though
[22:24] <cjwatson> So if it needs SB I'd need to build specialised OVMF or something
[22:25] <cjwatson> I think Steve indicated it was a general problem on UEFI though
[22:25] <stgraber> nope, I wan't testing with SB, just plain UEFI using a tftp with the result of grub-mknetdir
[22:25] <cjwatson> Ah, good; if that works with booting from USB then I could probably take it from there
[22:55] <stgraber> cjwatson: hmm, can't seem to get grub to load any of its modules from usb when using the tftp .efi binary
[22:55] <stgraber> either that or I'm failling to setup the fs layout for it to find them
[22:56] <stgraber> (grub complains of unset root variable, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't have the gpt module so even if I set it, it won't work)
[22:56] <stgraber> so all I'm getting is the recovery prompt which isn't terribly useful :(
[23:09] <sixcorners> I just did a fresh install of ubuntu and now all I get is the grub recovery prompt
[23:10] <sixcorners> 12.10 amd64, I didn't change any of the partition settings, it's supposed to dual boot with windows 8
[23:13] <sixcorners> it's a moderately old desktop, the first disk is mbr, the second is gpt, first has windows 8 and grub, the second has ubuntu


[22:51] <joelkraehemann> hi all
[22:51] <joelkraehemann> I need some help with my snap building on launchpad
[22:52] <joelkraehemann> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/403993218/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_xenial_amd64_nongnu-gsequencer_BUILDING.txt.gz
[22:53] <joelkraehemann> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jkraehemann/+junk/gsequencer/view/head:/snap/snapcraft.yaml#L26
[22:54] <joelkraehemann> The build fails because it tries to patch the files prior download completed
[22:56] <wgrant> joelkraehemann: Have you tried debugging with "snapcraft cleanbuild" locally?
[22:56] <wgrant> That should let you reproduce it without waiting for LP
[22:57] <joelkraehemann> Retrieved 'nongnu-gsequencer_2.1.21_amd64.snap
[22:57] <joelkraehemann> ^^ it just works
[23:01] <joelkraehemann> I try to use `wget` withouth -c switch
[23:11] <joelkraehemann> didn't help
[23:20] <wgrant> joelkraehemann: The only slightly weird thing LP does is run "snapcraft pull" before "snapcraft build".
[23:20] <wgrant> It's possible your snapcraft.yaml fails in that case.
[23:20] <wgrant> In this case it's failing in the pull phase.
[23:31] <joelkraehemann> I just try a different download server
[23:32] <joelkraehemann> http://download.gsequencer.org/latest/


[09:41] <trijntje> How can I get rid of automatic suggestions from launchpad when I dont want to accept them?
[09:42] <trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/software-center/+pots/software-center/nl/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=new_suggestions&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=untranslated
[09:43] <trijntje> this shows a number of suggestions, but I dont want to accept any of them. If I can reject them I will immediatly notice if someone has made a new suggestion so that I can review it, these automatic suggestions only obscure things
[10:06] <trijntje> another question: I've noticed that Onboard shares translations with Ubuntu feisty, instead of oneiric. Where can I report this?
[10:09] <artnay> trijntje: maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/onboard/+bugs and I'd add ubuntu translations to report
[10:13] <artnay> trijntje: I added your import queue wish here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/812243
[10:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 812243 in launchpad "Allow translatable projects to be sorted in more versatile ways (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Low,Triaged]
[12:09] <trijntje> I'v submitted a bug report for onboard:
[12:09] <trijntje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/onboard/+bug/824480
[12:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 824480 in onboard "Onboard trunk shares translations with ubuntu feisty, instead of with the latest ubuntu (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
[12:21] <artnay> trijntje: I added Ubuntu Translations to it
[12:21] <artnay> trijntje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
[13:21] <trijntje> artnay: thanks!


[04:19] <len-1304> zequence, just reading about isolated cores (The "isolcpus" kernel parameter) for setting aside a cpu core for a task or thread. Then a thread can be assigned to a core set aside for it.
[04:20] <len-1304> I am also reading that IRQs can be bound to a core as well.
[04:23] <len-1304> I don't know how easily certain kinds of tasks could be isolated. Run most of the OS on core 0 and the real time stuff on core 1.
[04:25] <len-1304> I know jack has 3 threads, of which one needs rt and higher priority. I wonder how well other audio app isolate threads.
[04:27] <len-1304> It seems almost all of the processor chips these days have at least two cores... even the lowly atom.
[07:25] <len-1304> Lump|AFK, Asterisk seems to have a jack driver.
[09:06] <zequence> len-1304: The interaction between jack and PA is not flawless for me. Initial start of jack worked, but retrying it didn't work very well
[09:07] <zequence> PA froze
[09:07] <zequence> needed to kill it
[09:08] <zequence> Actually, this was only when having PA use jack sink
[09:11] <zequence> This worked, but it's still buggy. Start rhythmbox. Start jack. Set PA to use jack sink and source.  Start jack (PA is still using onboard, but Rhythmbox uses jack)
[09:12] <zequence> Different applications in PA are able to use different interfaces
[09:13] <zequence> I think I'd like to have the PA module automatically change to jack when starting it, and change back to whatever was default when stopping it
[09:28] <zequence> len-1304: I'm going to make a patch for the module. Feature freeze is coming up March 7th. We should think about what else we want to have uploaded until then
[09:29] <zequence> I want it to set jack by default
[09:29] <zequence> With the fixes to both jack and PA, I think this release will be tons better just because of that
[09:37] <zequence> Ah, the uibiquity plugins
[09:37] <zequence> or plugin
[09:37] <zequence> I want that to happen too
[09:37] <zequence> But, I won't have time until Fri, Sat
[12:04] <smartboyhw> Hey scott-work
[12:04] <smartboyhw> zequence, ^
[12:04] <scott-work> hi smartboyhw
[12:04] <smartboyhw> scott-work, zequence and I are planning for a seperate release team for Ubuntu Studio...
[12:05] <zequence> scott-work: Yes, it seemed like the best way to do it, since smartboyhw is managing that pretty well. What do you think?
[12:05] <scott-work> can you tell me more about it?
[12:05] <zequence> scott-work: Just that we make a team called -release which would instead of -core get the privilege to do the relase stuff
[12:06] <scott-work> zequence: that sounds like a good plan
[12:07] <zequence> and add smartboyhw to that team. He's the most active on that side of development, and is probably the best person to oversee that
[12:07] <zequence> scott-work: smartboyhw started working on a wiki page for release procedure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleaseProcedure
[12:08] <smartboyhw> zequence, I was copying the link too:P
[12:13] <smartboyhw> scott-work, so can zequence start creating the team?
[12:36] <zequence> The team is created, and I asked for the privileges to be moved over to that team
[12:38] <zequence> smartboyhw: Again, great work on the wiki. Would you mind if I did some editing just to make it easier to read? I might do that at a later date, if you don't beat me to it.
[12:38] <zequence> Just me being pedantic
[12:38] <zequence> Not a priority. There is plenty of stuff to improve on the wikis we have
[12:51] <smartboyhw> zequence, no worries:)
[13:17] <zequence> len-1304: Another difference in graphic cards could be not only which driver, but what type, AGP, PCI or PCIe.
[13:22] <scott-work> smartboyhw: zequence: sorry, busy at work. creating the team sounds like the right thing to do
[13:22] <scott-work> zequence: what do you need me to do to get the privliges moved to that team?
[13:22] <smartboyhw> scott-work, zequence has already made the team and requested stgraber in #ubuntu-release to change things
[13:23] <smartboyhw> scott-work, nothing needed for you to do for us:)
[13:23] <scott-work> ah, good, good. and i presume that smartboyhw is already added to the team, no?
[13:23] <smartboyhw> scott-work, yes
[13:23] <smartboyhw> I am added
[13:24] <scott-work> oooooh, good work on the wiki page, smartboyhw . that's looks really nice :)
[13:24] <smartboyhw> scott-work, :)
[14:12] <len-1304> zequence, assuming you are talking about PA 3.*, I have found that if there is only one audio interface turned on in PA that jack becomes default when it takes the device from PA.
[14:13] <zequence> len-1304: Actually, I find that applications started after jackdbus is running will automatically use jack. Even when PA is not set to use jack
[14:13] <len-1304> For me even those started before
[14:14] <len-1304> I have audio going through pa to the IF, start jack, the audio pauses then goes through jack. Stop jack it pauses then goes back to the IF
[14:15] <zequence> The PA master volume doesn't have any effect on those applications that use jackdbus when PA is set to use another interface
[14:16] <len-1304> I hadn't tried that. That is a bug. If you report I will try it later and confirm.
[14:17] <zequence> len-1304: It's not really a bug
[14:18] <zequence> Since PA is set to use another IF, the master volume only affects streams going to that IF
[14:18] <zequence> In pavucontrol you can actually set each device to use it's own interface
[14:18] <zequence> This you can't do with the regular PA settings Gui which you get with Unity and Gnome3
[14:20] <smartboyhw> yeah
[14:20] <len-1304> The master volume should affect whatever stream the audio gets sent to. I think the PA people would call that a bug
[14:21] <zequence> len-1304: I heard from David that they are planning some changes on that whole thing
[14:21] <len-1304> But I am not sure if that is PA or some other part of the system. I will play later.
[14:21] <zequence> len-1304: Consider that the master volume makes settings for a specific card.
[14:21] <zequence> Not for all of them
[14:21] <len-1304> There are still some changes in git that are not in the current release.
[14:21] <zequence> like what?
[14:22] <len-1304> being able to set the bridge channel number.
[14:22] <zequence> It's there, but I haven't got it to work
[14:22] <len-1304> It's in the docs but not release.
[14:23] <len-1304> It is in the source/sink but not in the jackdbus detect.
[14:24] <zequence> You're right
[14:24] <len-1304> I asked them about it, that was what I was told.
[14:24] <zequence> It's in the git tree that Ubuntu is using as a source for the package, so if they do an update before feature freeze, it'll get included
[14:25] <len-1304> you can use pactl to find out what the current modules can do.
[14:26] <zequence> or rather, it's a bzr branch
[14:27] <len-1304> Anyway when it does get into release, I would suggest setting channels to two as default.
[14:28] <zequence> Yep
[14:28] <len-1304> It would be what people would expect, what most people would need, and use a lot less resources.
[14:29] <zequence> actually, we might need to request a patch
[14:29] <zequence> Don't think they will update to anything else than official releases, unless they're fixing a bug
[14:30] <zequence> I'll make a patch and ask David to add it
[14:30] <len-1304> k
[14:30] <zequence> I'll also make one to set the channes to two for the module
[14:41] <smartboyhw> zequence, len-1304 try this v
[14:41] <smartboyhw> http://rafalcieslak.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/vmodsynth-1-0-released/
[14:42] <smartboyhw> By cielak (which zequence should have saw him in UDS-R getting the winner of the automated testing writing competition)
[14:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: I see you are making a package out of it
[14:44] <smartboyhw> zequence, yes helping him a bit (and to practise my packaging skills apart from the Kubuntu ones)
[14:45] <zequence> smartboyhw: I would suggest you make sure no one is already doing that for Debian, and if not, sending it there
[14:45] <smartboyhw> zequence, no Kubuntu packages are ALWAYS -0ubuntu1.... I got people watching over me:P
[14:45] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yes, but this is not a Kubuntu package
[14:46] <zequence> it belongs in Debian Multimedia team
[14:46] <smartboyhw> zequence, I know.... I might persuade him to put it into debian one day...But normally his software doesn't get into the main archives (Debian or Ubuntu)
[14:46] <zequence> smartboyhw: Why don't you put it there?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> zequence, because he doesn't want to and I don't have a debian system:P
[14:47] <zequence> Saves you the trouble of adding it to Ubuntu, and also makes sure it is spread through out the Debian based environment
[14:47] <zequence> Why not?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> zequence, I didn't say I want to add it to Ubuntu (nor did he)
[14:47] <smartboyhw> We just want to keep it in a PPA that's all
[14:47] <smartboyhw> I wasn't sure if he will maintain this project for long also
[14:48] <smartboyhw> Since he is using it as his university homework
[14:48] <smartboyhw> s/homework/project/
[14:48] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Since he is using it as his university project"
[14:48] <smartboyhw> Thank you kubotu
[14:49] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:49] <zequence> If it's GPL, it isn't really up to him anyway. I haven't tried it, but if it is useful, it should be packaged for Debian, no doubt
[14:51] <zequence> smartboyhw: Does it support jack?
[14:51] <smartboyhw> zequence, I will ask the dev
[14:52] <smartboyhw> zequence, NO it doesn't support JACk
[14:52] <zequence> Yeah, just read about that
[14:52] <zequence> this makes it a lot less usefull in deed
[14:53] <smartboyhw> grrrr right?
[14:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, alright let me try to play with debian packaging
[15:11] <zequence> astraljava: Re: music to have on when working by the computer - I've been listening to a lot of Aphex Twin. He's done a lot of tracks, but too few to have on permanently.
[15:11] <zequence> If there were only more of them, I wouldn't need anything else
[15:33] <zequence> smartboyhw: If you'd like to do packagin for Ubuntu Studio, I'd recommend packaging linux-sampler, and other packages that aren't part of the Debian distro
[15:34] <zequence> smartboyhw: falktx already does that, and you could look at his packages as examples, even if they aren't from scracth
[15:34] <smartboyhw> zequence, well ok let me finish calligra for Kubuntu first:P
[15:34] <zequence> scratch*
[15:35] <smartboyhw> zequence, ok. Also I need to do some iBus packaging for our Hong Kong people:P
[15:35] <smartboyhw> zequence, linux-sampler isn't in Ubuntu?
[15:35] <zequence> smartboyhw: Preferably, we try getting those into Debian, if possible. But, if not, then at least it would be good to keep a official PPA for stuff we can't include (may be we can't even keep it in a PPA - we'd need to investigate).
[15:36] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK
[15:36] <zequence> linux-sampler is GPL, with an addition, which makes it non-free
[15:36] <zequence> The addition is for protecting against using it in commercial hardware samplers and such, but it causes problems
[15:37] <zequence> It's the only sampler that can load gig files on Linux. One of the only real samplers around
[15:37] <zequence> not bug free though, from what I've experienced. At least not when used with qsampler, an interface for it
[15:37] <zequence> Debian has all of the packages linux-sampler depends on, except for the actual sampler server
[15:39] <smartboyhw> ok
[15:43] <contrapunctus> lmfao, kubotu XD
[21:49] <len-1304> zequence, there is a new version of PA again today.
[21:59] <zequence> len-1304: Ok. Let me check.
[22:00] <len-1304> It showed up in my daily update.
[22:00] <len-1304> (for 13.04)
[22:01] <zequence> len-1304: I was just looking at the changelog (apt-get changelog pulseaudio). Didn't seem like there was much added
[22:02] <zequence> A quick bugfix to the package itself
[22:03] <len-1304> Not the master mixer then. (I still need to play with that.)
[22:03] <zequence> Made by the same guy who got the lowlatency kernel uploaded initially
[22:04] <zequence> Who also used to hang out here until fairly recently - themuso. I met him briefly at UDS
[22:04] <len-1304> I remember him yes.
[22:05] <zequence> len-1304: I don't think how the master level works is a bug. Sort of like the master level on a mixer doesn't affect a bus level
[22:05] <zequence> Only if the bus goes through the master
[22:05] <zequence> In this case, the bus can be made to bypass the master, and connecting directly to another IF
[22:05] <len-1304> Ya, but I need to play with it so I have a better understanding of what you mean.
[22:06] <zequence> len-1304: Don't know if you need two devices. Perhaps only one will do, if it's your delta device
[22:06] <zequence> You do have the usb device, so that should do
[22:07] <len-1304> I have two PCI cards.
[22:07] <len-1304> an ice1712 and an ensoniq.
[22:07] <len-1304> but I have the ensonic turned off in pulse.
[22:08] <zequence> I have three. builtin, hdmi from the graphic card, and the delta. This builtin is strange in that I'm not able to use with jack for some reason
[22:08] <zequence> Works fine with PA and alsa. Very weird
[22:08] <len-1304> I have found that having pulse connected to a second card while it is also connected to jack causes coupling problems.
[22:09] <len-1304> My internal IF is turned off in bios.
[22:09] <len-1304> (the ac97 is too noisy for me.)
[22:10] <zequence> It is something that you can't always choose, as is the case with my hdmi. And, the stuff should of course work with any card configuration
[22:10] <zequence> Haven't done any testing with disabling my other devices
[22:11] <len-1304> It works ok but having pulse see another card while it is bridged to jack affects the latency.
[22:11] <len-1304> The minimum latency becomes that of the highest latency device in my experience.
[22:12] <len-1304> (YMMV)
[22:12] <zequence> In my case, I have two devices that don'w even start with jack
[22:12] <zequence> The third one is my delta device. On certain machines, I've been able to run it at 16 f/p, but only with jack. Not with additional jack apps
[22:13] <zequence> Works now too
[22:13] <zequence> on this machine
[22:14] <zequence> If I run jackd from the command line, I don't get xruns. But as soon as I open an application, it gets messy
[22:16] <zequence> I'm even able to run jackd with PA at 16 f/p, but with loads of xruns
[22:16] <zequence> Maybe MBs are just more different from each other than one would think?
[22:19] <len-1304> I can run at 16 f/p as well, but just about anything can make an xrun. I can run at 32 for hours with no xruns with audio running through it.
[22:19] <len-1304> MBs are different. But more than that I think each one needs to be gone over before using it for low latency audio.
[22:20] <len-1304> bios settings make a big difference
[22:21] <zequence> len-1304: But, if you have the other device enabled, you can't run jack at 16 f/p?
[22:21] <zequence> I'm thinking this is because of the module, as it might make jack crash at low latencies
[22:22] <zequence> As some applications do, when pushing it
[22:22] <zequence> oh, I'm talking about the PA module, of course
[22:23] <len-1304> I haven't tried that here on this machine. but on my netbook the internal audio only goes down to 128f/p and when I have it enabled my USB IF is the same but if I turn it off in pulse then I can get the USB device down to 64.
[22:24] <zequence> len-1304: But, is that only when you use the PA module?
[22:24] <len-1304> Yes.
[22:25] <len-1304> Only when bridging pa-jack
[22:25] <zequence> I'm having a weird bug on PA. I can't select an input device. The mixer crashes. It seems confused. None is actually selected
[22:26] <zequence> len-1304: That's the part I can't really figure out. Why a device that jack is not trying to run would affect jack lowest possible latency. Other than the PA module having problems getting in sync and making jack crash
[22:27] <len-1304> Ok, I enabled the ensonic and can still run at 32f/p
[22:27] <len-1304> I should see if I can run the ensonic in jack at 32...
[22:28] <zequence> 32 should work for most devices, but 16 is a different story
[22:29] <len-1304> a few more xruns with the other device connected though.
[22:31] <len-1304> With jack running the ensonic pulse is running 10% less cpu because it is only sending two channels to jack instead of 10.
[22:32] <len-1304> unable to start the ensonic at 16.
[22:32] <zequence> That would be highly expected, yes
[22:34] <len-1304> Ok, jack starts the ICE at 32 with pulse connected to both jack and the ensonic, but there are xruns all the time.
[22:35] <len-1304> with the ensoniq turned off in pa I could run for several minutes at least before the first xrun
[22:35] <zequence> len-1304: Try without the PA module.
[22:36] <zequence> you could just run jackd from the terminal: jackd -d alsa -d hw:n -p 16
[22:38] <len-1304> unloaded module - no xruns.
[22:38] <len-1304> cpu is really low too :)
[22:38] <zequence> I think what happens with PA is that the module is a part of PA, and if it has more stuff to do, then it will work less well with jack
[22:38] <len-1304> but that is to be expected
[22:39] <zequence> Another problem may be hardware interrupts, if you're using both PA and jack in paralell, but without the module
[22:39] <zequence> I don't see however how PA would affect jack latency directly. If jack uses a device, PA is not
[22:40] <zequence> And PA is strictly a jack application when connecting to jack. And some apps are really lousy at low latencies
[22:40] <zequence> That's my theory, anyway
[22:40] <len-1304> I think pa defaults to a lower latency than jack and so with the bridge it has to keep up with jack's latency.
[22:40] <zequence> len-1304: So, PA is able to run at 16 f/p on your onboard?
[22:40] <zequence> While jack is not?
[22:41] <len-1304> no
[22:41] <len-1304>  I mean the bridge module has to run at the same  latency.
[22:41] <len-1304> pa doesn't
[22:42] <zequence> The module may be connected to jack, while PA is using another device as output. The other device works flawlessly, while only jack gets audio droupouts
[22:42] <zequence> Yeah
[22:42] <zequence> The module is like a jack application
[22:42] <zequence> But, it's also depending on what PA is doing, I guess
[22:42] <zequence> So, if PA is busy, that might mean less resources for the module?
[22:43] <len-1304> PA takes about twice the cpu as jack at any latency with the bridge connected.
[22:43] <len-1304> PA seems to use almost nothing compared to the module.
[22:44] <len-1304> with the module unloaded pa is using 1/5 what jack is
[22:44] <zequence> Can't say I know much about jack coding, but perhaps the module could be made a lot more efficient. David has often said it's more of a beginning towards a real tool
[22:50] <len-1304> 16 frames may run without xruns, but soon as I start guitarix... 1000s of xruns before the gui even shows up. doesn't slow down after either.
[23:02] <zequence> yeah, I haven't heard of anyone being able to run applications xrun free at 16 f/p
[23:03] <zequence> Often jack used to crash for me, if I tried
[23:05] <zequence> next release of the kernel skipped one part of the SRU process, as they were in a hurry, as it seems
[23:05] <zequence> the part being verification testing. Something I don't do, since generic already does it, and it's the same kernel anyway
[23:05] <len-1304> for 12.04.2?
[23:06] <zequence> both Precise and Quantal
[23:26] <zequence> having problems making the patch. PA build dependencies are unmet. libjack is the wrong version
[23:27] <zequence> ah, I need to install it manually
[23:28] <zequence> it removes some stuff
[23:28] <zequence> libjack0, that is
[23:34] <zequence> Ah, I'm too tired. It's past midnight. Just writing the damn patch description is more work the generating tha patch
[23:38] <zequence> heh, the last kernel update fixes quite a bunch of bugs
[23:38] <zequence> This one was particularly interesting, bug #1095315
[23:39] <len-1304> I think that was why I didn't buy the device.
[23:39] <len-1304> I could see the the ports but get no sound through


[13:00] <sforshee> apw: did you see the chatter from friday about overlayfs and lxc?
[13:01] <apw> sforshee, hmmm
[13:02] <sforshee> apw: tl;dr is that in wily, overlayfs fstype is mountable in a user namespace but the overlay fstype is not
[13:02] <apw> oh heh, that i could believe, and it would be broken
[13:02] <apw> sforshee, is there a bug for that ?
[13:02] <sforshee> apw: not sure. hallyn?
[13:03] <apw> whever that was discussed it was not here
[13:04] <sforshee> apw: lxc is trying to mount it as overlay if that shows up in /proc/filesystems, so it fails and that's a regression
[13:05] <apw> yep, i am sure we failed to apply the overlayfs fix to allow user mounts to overlay,
[13:05] <sforshee> it's probably a one-line fix, but I wanted to check with you that it's an oversight and not intentional
[13:05] <apw> indeed, and its an oversite
[13:58] <hallyn> sforshee: apw: no i didn't open a new bug.  there are adt failures due to it, wasn't sure if that auto-opens a bug
[13:58] <apw> hallyn, no i don't think it makes ssh-keygen -f "/home/apw/.ssh/ldap_known_hosts" -R togetic.buildd
[13:59] <apw> h yeah thanks
[13:59] <apw> hallyn, no i don't think it makes a bug directly, i assume it is lxc which is failing ?
[13:59] <apw> its self tests
[14:02] <sforshee> apw: yes, lxc tests are failing
[14:02] <sforshee> I've got a patch, just tested it and it's working
[14:02] <sforshee> so I can make a bug and send it
[14:02] <apw> sforshee, ack and ack
[14:03] <hallyn> thanks guys :)
[15:33] <infinity> apw: Has Laney (or anyone) whined at you about the udisks2 autopkgtests OOPSing your kernel on i386?
[15:33] <infinity> apw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11947918/
[15:34] <apw> not that i have heard about
[15:34] <Laney> нет
[15:35] <apw> infinity, the interesting things there is the first erorr is a disk error
[15:38] <infinity> apw: It's a VM, so neat trick.
[15:38] <apw> yeah, that
[15:38] <apw> a bug would be nice, with the how to run those tests manually
[15:38] <infinity> Laney: ^
[15:39] <Laney> Да
[15:40] <infinity> Laney: Are you trying to tell us that you're being held captive by someone who doesn't have proper keymaps?
[15:40] <infinity> Laney: Is Timmy stuck in the well?  What is it, boy?
[15:41] <Laney> XNOX GOT ME
[15:52] <xnox> infinity: i demand porterbox and early alpha2 release, and Laney will be free.
[15:52] <infinity> xnox: Meh.  You can keep him.
[15:52] <xnox> infinity: he is safe, inside a wall climbing facility.
[15:54] <Laney> Just seal the roof
[15:54] <Laney> apw: bug #1478623
[16:51] <wyvern> Hi folks, I'm on 15.04 and I need to use a newer kernel (ideally 4.0 or 4.1) to avoid a usb bug (http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-usb/msg123652.html). How should I go about doing that?
[16:52] <apw> wyvern, there are no official newer kernels published for that release, you might use the wily kernel which is at 4.0
[16:53] <apw> or is it 4.1,
[16:53] <rtg> 4.1
[16:53] <wyvern> I don't use ubuntu much; how crazy is it the kernel from a different release?
[16:54] <wyvern> And, assuming it's not too bad of an idea, how would I go about doing so?
[16:54] <wyvern> s/is it the/is it to use the/
[16:54] <apw> we tend to do it pretty often, but you don't get automatic updates that way, so its pretty manual
[16:55] <wyvern> Well right now my usb devices aren't working too well so manual is better than broken :)
[16:56] <apw> you can obtain the debs from the +source/linux page
[16:56] <apw> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
[16:57] <apw> if you don't have dkms packages, then just the linux-image* and linux-image-extras* package should be sufficient
[16:58] <apw> wyvern, once you find out if 4.1 helps, then it would be good to file a bug (ubuntu-bug linux) saying where its broke and where it works, as that is the starting point for finding out what fixes it
[17:00] <wyvern> OK I'll see what I can do.
[17:50] <unixabg> apw: Greetings, just checking in on the overlayfs things with casper. Any progress?
[17:51] <apw> unixabg, sorry no, been working on some critical cves, which have consumed pretty much all my time, those went out today, so tommorrow might be better
[21:38] <unixabg> apw: Sounds good and thanks for your willingness to examine the overlayfs things.


[06:10] <BHSPitMonkey> haha
[06:10] <BHSPitMonkey> I like the hardy incoming art submission for a wallpaper
[06:10] <BHSPitMonkey> that's just the gutsy wallpaper desaturated
[06:10] <BHSPitMonkey> priceless
[15:22] <psyke83> kwwii, I noticed Daniel Sargeant has uploaded a color chooser version of Human-Murrine as well, will you be going with that version instead of mine?
[15:22] <psyke83> kwwii, that theme still has hardcoded values and issues with Firefox, unfortunately
[15:27] <kwwii> psyke83: actually, we will be going with ubuntulooks again
[15:27] <psyke83> ok
[15:27] <kwwii> I just removed murrine from the dependencies
[15:27] <kwwii> and added your gtkrc for ubuntuloooks
[15:28] <_MMA_> Boo.... Ubuntu suX0rz.
[15:29] <kwwii> _MMA_: well, if you would have only worked a bit harder on it maybe we could have finally got ahead this time
[15:29] <kwwii> :p
[15:29] <_MMA_> No. The issue is management. "Higher-ups"
[15:29] <_MMA_> Oh well.
[15:30] <kwwii> actually, I agree that ubuntulooks still has nicer progress bars and scrollbars
[15:34] <psyke83> kwwii, so we're not keeping the murrine theme as an alternative, even?
[15:34] <kwwii> psyke83: we cannot keep it due to the size of the CD
[15:35] <_MMA_> Really, Murrine the engine should be a recommend on ubuntu-desktop anyway.
[15:35] <psyke83> ah that's fine, then... I was just confused to see someone else upload a different color chooser version to the bzr, it seems like duplicated effort
[15:35] <kwwii> hehe
[15:35] <_MMA_> psyke83: It's ok. Your work will be seen and is appreciated in Ubuntu Studio. :P
[15:37] <psyke83> _MMA_, ;) it's not a prob, I was just wondering why... the old theme has issues with Firefox and so does the new one, it seems like a step back... but if it won't get used, who cares :P
[15:37] <_MMA_> I'm just jabbin' at Ken. ;)
[15:37] <psyke83> the toolbar seems to be missing a horizontal line below the buttons
[15:52] <_MMA_> kwwii: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Elegant+Blankon?content=78134&PHPSESSID=8dc2bb4f15bdd27deb50b2bb98a1f1ae
[15:53] <_MMA_> Or, the unmodded theme screenshots: http://www.blankonlinux.or.id/screenshot.html
[15:57] <kwwii> not bad, perhaps a bit too simple but very interesting
[15:58] <kwwii> ok, so today I updated the human-icon-theme, human-theme, ubuntulooks, and ubuntu-artwork packages
[15:58] <kwwii> so expect a couple of changes ;-)
[16:28] <cody-somerville> \o/
[17:43] <TomaszD> hi, is the welcome html page of Ubuntu part of ubuntu-artwork package?
[17:47] <cody-somerville> no
[17:48] <TomaszD> cody-somerville, where can I find the template for this page in lp?
[17:48] <TomaszD> dpkg -S doesn't seem to associate the file with any package
[17:48] <cody-somerville> ubuntu-doc I believe
[17:48] <TomaszD> hmm
[18:02] <TomaszD> cody-somerville, kubuntu-docs-index exists, but ubuntu-docs-index is missing
[18:02] <TomaszD> :(
[18:02] <cody-somerville> Ask in #ubuntu-doc
[18:03] <TomaszD> cody-somerville, ok
[20:37] <savvas> hm..
[20:37] <savvas> I think my message didn't reach the ubuntu-art list
[20:39] <savvas> hm it must be the attachment
[20:40] <nothlit> are you subscribed?
[20:40] <nothlit> otherwise kwwii has to go approve it as not spam or something i think
[20:41] <savvas> i am, but i don't know what's the attachment limit
[20:42] <nothlit> i would keep it under 7.6 megs i think
[20:42] <savvas> kwwii: can you check emails sent by vicedar at gmail dot com yesterday?
[20:42] <nothlit> theres like overhead, if you go over that it creeps over 10
[20:42] <savvas> it was 13kb :(
[20:42] <nothlit> that should be fine
[20:42] <nothlit> people have sent full size png wallpapers before
[20:43] <savvas> think I should resend?
[20:43] <savvas> it was about a suggest of mine about the new bittorrent icon
[20:43] <savvas> *suggestion
[20:45] <savvas> I'll try once more
[20:48] <savvas> 'ere we go :)
[20:49] <savvas> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-April/005594.html
[20:49] <savvas> :)
[21:21] <kwwii> savvas: that should go in the gnome icon theme right?
[21:22] <savvas> kwwii: well if the license and everything is right, I'd be honoured :)
[21:23] <kwwii> savvas: andreasn would be the right person to talk to about including it upstream in the gnome icon theme
[21:23] <kwwii> savvas: for hardy I will put it in our version of the gnome theme
[21:23] <savvas> cool :)
[22:10] <andreasn> savvas: was it you who filed that bug against gnome-icon-theme in gnome bugzilla?
[22:21] <crimeboy> hi
[22:22] <crimeboy> someone have a font sackers gothic light?
[22:22] <crimeboy> or similar free
[22:27] <andreasn> crimeboy: no, sorry
[22:36] <troy_s> crimeboy: You have obviously checked out dafont and abstractfonts yes?
[23:04] <crimeboy> troy_s: and all rest of internet
[23:05] <troy_s> crimeboy: Use whatsmyfont to find a kin to it
[23:05] <crimeboy> font.com have it
[23:05] <crimeboy> but
[23:05] <crimeboy> 29$ us
[23:06] <troy_s> crimeboy: As I said, use whatsmyfont to find a font that is almost identical in the free capacity.
[23:06] <troy_s> crimeboy: What is sackers offering over the thousands of other light gothics out there?
[23:06] <crimeboy> is a font of a logo done
[23:07] <crimeboy> but, thank u anyway
[23:07] <troy_s> crimeboy: Did you try whatsmyfont?
[23:08] <troy_s> crimeboy: As I said, in many instances, it will pull up several in the same class / breed.


[03:37] <navsen> Hello, is anyone there?
[03:37] <dominus_> yes
[06:00] <josephzitt> Hi, all. I just put Ubuntu Stodio 11.10 on my laptop after having used ubuntu for a long time. Booting up, I get the "Gave up waiting for root device" error. Following instructions on one web site, I changed the "root=UUID..." vlue to /dev/sda1. It had no effect. I can boot up OK to older kernels. Any idea how to get this working?
[06:04] <acerimmer> josephzitt: u there?
[06:05] <josephzitt> Yup, I
[06:05] <josephzitt> m here
[06:05] <acerimmer> josephzitt: what method did u use to install UStudio and from what version
[06:06] <josephzitt> (hitting the wrong keys, but here :-] )
[06:06] <josephzitt> I installed 11.10 for x86 from a USB drive
[06:07] <acerimmer> josephzitt: did you reset your bios to boot the hard drive?
[06:07] <josephzitt> I don't think so, unless it happens automatically.
[06:08] <josephzitt> FWIW, the system dual boots Ubuntu and Win 7 (needed for work(
[06:09] <acerimmer> josephzitt: nope.  reboot and your screen will flash "hit Fsomething for boot options"  go in and manually reset your bios to boot the hdd first.  BTW, dual boot or anything weird like that?
[06:09] <josephzitt> Yes, dual boot with Win 7
[06:09] <acerimmer> did you install windows then ubuntu to the other way?
[06:10] <josephzitt> It came with Windows. I added Ubuntu. Been running it that way for a while, with the default boot being into Ubuntu
[06:11] <acerimmer> wubi or real dual boot?
[06:11] <josephzitt> Real
[06:11] <josephzitt> OK, BIOS was and is set to boot from the hard drive
[06:12] <acerimmer> adding ustudio should NOT be effecting you that way.
[06:12] <acerimmer> try the reboot
[06:12] <josephzitt> Right. I think something may have gone screwy with the kernel that it used
[06:12] <josephzitt> Rebooting
[06:12] <acerimmer> josephzitt: btw you DID md5sum check before you installed?
[06:13] <josephzitt> Yes
[06:14] <josephzitt> Apparently, this is a fairly common problem, though with a lot of different versions of Ubuntu over the years.
[06:14] <josephzitt> Interesting: it dumped me to the (initmfs) prompt as it had been but without showing the error message.
[06:15] <acerimmer> does your grub menu offer more than one ubuntu boot option?  i.e. Ubuntu with 2.3.4 kernel, with 2.3.5 kernel?  if so boot a previous version, do all updates  then reboot newest kernel
[06:15] <josephzitt> I did that, Went to the previous kernel and did updates, though it looked like it had only updated the older kernel that that used,
[06:16] <josephzitt> This was with apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
[06:17] <acerimmer> can you get into safeboot i.e. text mode
[06:17] <josephzitt> Is that the recovery mode option on the grub menu?
[06:17] <acerimmer> yes
[06:17] <josephzitt> trying it now
[06:18] <acerimmer> see this.  I've not had the specific kernel error you're working with, but my system has hiccuped over a couple of kernel upgrades.  Somehow, it always self corrected.  anyway, I think this is what you want: http://zeeis.me/ubuntu-error-gave-up-waiting-for-root-device/
[06:19] <josephzitt> It got partway, then dropped me to the (initramfs) prompt with errors.
[06:20] <acerimmer> see the above tutorial.  I think you can recover.  otherwise, reinstall.  Sorry I couldn't offer anything more.
[06:21] <josephzitt> Looking at it now
[06:25] <josephzitt> When I entered "sudo chroot /media/fix su" I go "chroot: failed to run command 'su': No such file or directory"
[06:25] <josephzitt> s/I go/I got/
[06:26] <acerimmer> copy and paste or fingerpeck?
[06:26] <josephzitt> Wait, I missed a step
[06:29] <josephzitt> Fingerpeck/
[06:30] <josephzitt> But now I realize that I'm not sure if I'm using /dev/sda1 or /dev/sda2 and may have changed to the wrong one when following the other instructions. How do i check which is which?
[06:30] <acerimmer> If I've read your profile correctly, it's about 1:30 a.m.,  Excuse me for suggesting that the error rate increases exponentially after midnight?
[06:31] <josephzitt> Actually, since I woke up at about 1 PM, I'm pretty much as good as I get :-)
[06:33] <josephzitt> It's just that, even though I've been using Linux since the mid-90s, I still seem to be just learning it.
[16:52] <akston> Hello
[16:52] <akston> Hadn't seen anything on the mailing list, will there be a new Studio LTS?
[17:01] <akston> Hmmn looks like there's a Studio daily build so I gather it will be LTS
[17:02] <holstein> akston: ubuntu 12.04 is a long term support release
[17:03] <holstein> those happen every 2 years.. 10.04 was LTS.. 8.04... 14.04 will be one
[17:03] <holstein> the big change is that the support cycle for ubuntu desktop has changes from 3 years to 5 years for LTS
[17:03] <akston> Ok. I'm happy the project is up and running, heard it was touch and go for a bit... Studio's my favourite distro
[17:04] <holstein> akston: its a community project, so its not going anywhere.. folks get busy, and some battles are uphill
[17:05] <akston> I wouldn't mind helping test a reasonably stable beta when it's available... do you know the timeframe?
[17:05] <holstein> akston: nah.. its hard to say.. we are trying to go to a live CD
[17:06] <akston> Ok... I'll add this channel and waitandsee
[17:06] <holstein>  /join #ubuntustudio-devel and feel free and join the user and devel mailing lists
[17:06] <holstein> akston: and just ping me or whatever
[17:07] <akston> Oh, there'll still be the alternate CD too right? For LUKS?
[17:07] <holstein> akston: not sure...
[17:08] <holstein> i think its looking more like, there might be a live CD
[17:09] <akston> I'm afeared of doing a LUKS install from scratch but I'm sure it can be done :)
[17:10] <holstein> i wouldnt do that for performance concerns personally
[17:13] <akston> BTW 11.04 threw my gconf directory so I had to redo a bunch of settings... only thing I can't figure is how to get the ALT-left/right volume widget that composits on the screen back. Any idea what that package is called?
[17:14] <holstein> not sure
[17:14] <holstein> feel free and run main ubuntu though with the studio pacakges added
[17:14] <holstein> im not sure if you are in gnome or not
[22:13] <Guest38251> hi
[22:13] <Guest38251> today i have try ubuntu studio .... the clock are wondrful
[22:14] <Guest38251> how is name the clock  -- i love the text incorrect clock
[22:14] <holstein> Guest38251: the digital clock? in JACK?
[22:14] <Guest38251> don't display yhe time but write f.e. four o clock
[22:15] <holstein> Guest38251: are you in XFCE ?
[22:15] <Guest38251> in intalian are incorrect time
[22:15] <Guest38251> no .... now are in ubuntu gnome
[22:15] <Guest38251> ubuntu studio are in my officie
[22:15] <holstein> so, ubuntu studio 10.04 ?
[22:15] <Guest38251> 11.10 ubuntu studio
[22:16] <holstein> ubuntu studio 11.10 came with XFCE, not gnome
[22:16] <holstein> so, if you didnt chagne it to gnome, its XFCE
[22:16] <holstein> change*
[22:16] <Guest38251> no now i'm in ubuntu classic ...
[22:16] <holstein> Guest38251: right
[22:16] <holstein> thtas not really gome either
[22:16] <Guest38251> in my home and i want if pssible the clock in my ubuntu
[22:16] <holstein> Guest38251: i would go to your favorte ubuntu support channel about that
[22:17] <holstein> i have not seen the classic desktop in a long time
[22:17] <Guest38251> in ubuntu support we ask me
[22:17] <Guest38251> the name of package ...
[22:17] <holstein> Guest38251: i would imagine its like any other clock app though
[22:17] <holstein> you right click on it, and edit the settings
[22:17] <holstein> Guest38251: a screenshot could help
[22:17] <Guest38251> one moment
[22:17] <holstein> i literally have *no* idea what is in the dock in 11.10's classic mode
[22:18] <holstein> we (ubuntustudio) dont deal with it
[22:18] <Guest38251> you are in ubuntu studio right?
[22:18] <holstein> but, i'll try and help, or point you in the right direction
[22:18] <holstein> Guest38251: rigth
[22:18] <holstein> we ship XFCE with ubuntustudio
[22:18] <holstein> there is no "classic
[22:18] <Guest38251> click with right button in clock
[22:18] <holstein> that is with main ubuntu
[22:18] <holstein> this is ubuntustudio
[22:19] <holstein> where we ship only XFCE now
[22:19] <Guest38251> you can change the metod og see the clock
[22:19] <holstein> Guest38251: it doesnt matter what i right click on, i dont have the classic desktop installed
[22:19] <Guest38251> holstein ...
[22:20] <holstein> but, im more than happy to take a look if you want to take a screenshot
[22:20] <Guest38251> today I've tried ubuntu studio
[22:20] <Guest38251> I changed to ubuntu studio, the mode display
[22:21] <Guest38251> There are 5 different ways to view it
[22:21] <holstein> Guest38251: right
[22:21] <holstein> thats XFCE
[22:21] <holstein> not the classic display
[22:21] <holstein> but, we dont need to split hairs about it
[22:21] <holstein> the fact is i dont know what it looks like, or how it funcitions, since i havent needed to support it
[22:22] <holstein> but, just take a screenshot, and i'll give it a look
[22:22] <holstein> :)
[22:22] <Guest38251> I am Italian, in Italy they are called: analog, binary, and two other INCORRECT
[22:22] <holstein> Guest38251: OK
[22:22] <Guest38251> and incorrect :-)
[22:22] <holstein> Guest38251: would you like to file a bug then?
[22:22] <holstein> or offer to help with translation?
[22:23] <holstein> Guest38251: if its in the classic mode, you can file that with ubuntu
[22:23] <holstein> but, its going to be phased out anyways
[22:23] <holstein> next cycle
[22:23] <Guest38251> time in the "INCORRECT" is displayed eg as 4.00, but it is written: "four o'clock"
[22:23] <Guest38251> undstand?
[22:23] <holstein> Guest38251: right... i understand.. its not displaying correctly in the ubuntu classic mode
[22:23] <Guest38251> no no no
[22:24] <Guest38251> i want to know the name ... the clock for ubuntustudio
[22:24] <holstein> Guest38251: its the XFCE one
[22:24] <holstein> Guest38251: but thats not the clock you are asking about
[22:24] <holstein> Guest38251: xfce is *not* classic mode
[22:24] <holstein> they are different
[22:25] <holstein> i think the classic mode uses the gnome3 clock
[22:25] <Guest38251> i can install the clock in gnome?
[22:25] <holstein> Guest38251: what im saying is, that *is* the gnome clock
[22:26] <holstein> classic mode is gnome, a custom gnome3 kind of thing.. ubuntustudio uses XFCE.. a *totally* different interface
[22:26] <Guest38251> :-(
[22:26] <holstein> Guest38251: just take a screenshot
[22:26] <holstein> http://imagebin.org/
[22:27] <holstein> ill tell you what you have
[22:27] <Guest38251> I thought that I could install it and put it
[22:27] <holstein> Guest38251: you have
[22:27] <holstein> if you have ubuntustudio running *any* form of gnome, you have
[22:31] <holstein> Guest38251: check out #ubuntu-it , im sure they can help you, and probably just dont understand that you are not using the ubuntustudio UI, which is XFCE
[22:32] <Guest38251> .... don't worry :-)
[22:32] <holstein> ?
[22:32] <Guest38251> in ubuntu-it tell me .. the name of package ...
[22:33] <Guest38251> the clock ... :-)
[22:35] <holstein> yeah, gnome-clock or soemthing like that


[01:19] <buntutech> good evening technicians
[12:47] <knosys> Hello
[12:48] <knosys> Could you please help me to know if my hardware is a good candidate for lubuntu ? :P
[12:48] <knosys> i have a fresh ubuntu distro, just installed nvidia drivers
[12:49] <knosys> and everything is good but, when running firefox + a java 2d game + irc , i cant use computer properly... even minimizing windows get's annoying
[12:50] <knosys> HW: intel celeron 2,7MHZ x2, FSB1333, 4gb ram ddr3, NVIDIA G210, sata hd 7200 rpm
[14:23] <knosys> so this makes the second ubuntu support channel where i dont get a single "Hello" :D
[14:23] <knosys> i love you all too
[14:50] <zy3pD> knosys, Hello
[15:00] <knosys> hi :)
[16:19] <Ascavasaion> The Power Manager seems to have been deprecated in 14.04.  Now if I forget to plug laptop in I get no warnings, and the laptop just shirts down and whatever I am doing disappears.  Please can you advise.
[16:20] <zy3pD> config xfce4-power-manager-settings
[16:23] <Ascavasaion> I found that the other day, but it tells me it is not running and whether I want to start it.  I need to know how to auto start it I think.
[16:27] <Ascavasaion> I tried Default applications for LXSession.  I see that power manager IS enabled on startup.  I checked the laptop=yes option.
[16:27] <Ascavasaion> Maybe that works, will see when I restart again,
[16:43] <Ascavasaion> Thank you zy3pD
[17:29] <Ascavasaion> Channel is pumping.
[17:30] <wxl> usually is Ascavasaion. if you wish to chat, i suggest #lubuntu-offtopic.
[17:30] <Ascavasaion> wxl: I was just teasing.  I understand why it is quiet.
[17:43] <onla3> I have just connected with hdmi cable a 42" plasma tv as my 2nd monitor. I got the picture alright and got it as extended desktop. I have 2 problems though. I can't get the audio from hdmi. I don't know where to set it in lxde. 2nd problem is that this is a plasma tv, and I want to chagne the wallpaper after short intervals, but I can't get any wallpaper app to recognize the 2nd desktop so that it would work on that also or rather than the 1st monitor
[17:45] <zy3pD> wallch
[17:45] <zy3pD> =wallpaper change
[17:45] <onla3> I tried that. It changed the 1st monitors picture only
[17:46] <zy3pD> there are many apps which could do that
[17:47] <onla3> also the lxde default "desktop preferences" app doesn't work properly for me I guess, cus if I tag the "use the same wallpaper on all desktops" it won't change the same for both, independent on which monitor I right click to "desktop preferences"
[17:47] <zy3pD> duckduckgo is your friend
[17:47] <zy3pD> logoff+login tried?
[17:47] <ianorlin> onla3 that might be more sometihng in pcmanfm doesn't do multiple monitors on desktops really that well
[17:48] <onla3> ye I tried to logoff-login and also reboot
[17:48] <zy3pD> ianorlin, for me it worked well
[17:48] <ianorlin> no I mean the desktop backgrounds sometimes can't change them
[17:48] <zy3pD> ok maybe
[17:48] <ianorlin> how do you have the monitors positioined relative to one another?
[17:49] <onla3> primary monitor is the 24" on left side with 1900x1080 and on the right is secondary 1280x720 or smth
[17:49] <ianorlin> what happens if you swap them?
[17:50] <ianorlin> which one can you change then
[17:50] <onla3> swap like just swap positions or primary-secondary status?
[17:50] <ianorlin> positions
[17:50] <ianorlin> swaping primary secondary might be something to try
[17:51] <onla3> swapping just positions, and the backgrounds changed
[17:52] <onla3> now primary has what 2nd had
[17:52] <onla3> and vice versa o.O
[17:52] <onla3> so the backgrounds are side by side and they stayed at their positions kind of
[17:52] <ianorlin> now if you try to change it with pcmafm or another program does it change which one changes
[17:53] <ianorlin> I think you don't want to burn the plasma tv right
[17:53] <onla3> ye
[17:54] <onla3> now it changes the background to which ever monitor i right click and choose to change it
[17:54] <onla3> like it did before
[17:55] <ianorlin> you can also change it from the command line with pcmanfm if you wanted that in a cronjob
[17:55] <ianorlin> so you don't have to worry about changing it manually
[17:55] <ianorlin> it is pcmanfm -w but I don't think it allows you to choose monitor
[17:56] <zy3pD> ianorlin, what is the name of this term based image viewer?
[17:56] <zy3pD> this program can do it i think so
[17:56] <ianorlin> that changes wallpaper not image veiwer
[17:57] <ianorlin> it is part of pcmanfm I learned about from reading the man page
[17:58] <onla3> pcmanfm -w changes the primary monitors desktop background
[17:59] <onla3> installed wallch once again, and that also just changes the primary :<
[18:00] <onla3> I tried to install nitrogen to try stretch background to both monitors, but it didn't work. Didn't bother to check log files and debug, as I would guess that I can find a working solution faster
[18:00] <Autoclesis> "packages fail to install --- check internet connection" :(
[18:01] <ianorlin> then try changing primary monitor
[18:01] <Autoclesis> I have Ubuntu stretched on two monitors but not Lubuntu
[18:01] <onla3> can I have the panel with start menu on the secondary monitor, and when I run apps, to start the in 2nd monitor by default?
[18:02] <onla3> and to not have the panel in primary, as that would help the plasma burn in
[18:03] <ianorlin> hmm didn't think of that
[20:53] <onla3> oo this works on both monitors. just need to install the daily from launchapd for 14.04 http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2013/07/easiest-way-to-set-animated-wallpaper-on-ubuntu-desktop/
[21:04] <gabry> Hi everyone, lxde power manager won't consider the power option I choose. For example: I tell it to not shut off the laptop screen nor to go in standby ever, but it does after the computer is not being used for 5 minutes. Any suggestions?
[21:05] <melodie> yes, pure command line in a file?
[21:05] <gabry> sorry?
[21:05] <melodie> ie:
[21:05] <melodie> xset dpms 0 0 0 &
[21:06] <melodie> in the .config/openbox/autostart file (if Lubuntu lets it work)
[21:06] <gabry> oh, now I get it
[21:06] <melodie> if not you can add it to a .xinitrc file
[21:06] <melodie> before the line "exec blabla"
[21:06] <gabry> there isn't such file
[21:07] <gabry> could you please point me to a guide to do so? I'm not so much good at these things
[21:07] <wxl> ~/.config…
[22:53] <macksting> Howdy. I've successfully shared files from a Lubuntu laptop, over its wireless NIC, to an XP machine with an ethernet connection to the household modem. I'm certain Samba's involved, but there's a few things I'd tried that didn't work, and so the extent to which this is functional is a bit serendipitous. How did I skin this particular cat? I'd like to reconstruct it so I can make it work with the Lubuntu install on my desktop.
[22:55] <wxl> macksting: let me get this straight: you've shared files with lubuntu successfully, but you want to know how to make it work?
[22:55]  * wxl scratches his head
[22:55] <macksting> I'm also interested in this for learning's sake, and learning how to do something is not greatly helped by succeeding without knowing what you did. So yeah.
[22:55] <macksting> I mean, if it were the XP machine hosting, that'd be one thing...
[22:56] <macksting> Ah. Sorry, no, a Kubuntu install on the lappy. Lubuntu on the desktop. Wonder if this is the wrong channel. (The Kubuntu is using lxde, but...)
[22:56] <wxl> oh my that's scary
[22:56] <macksting> inoright
[22:56] <macksting> The security concerns alone...
[22:57] <wxl> samba is a pain in the butt for simple things
[22:57]  * macksting nods.
[22:57] <wxl> i'd sooner use sshfs
[22:57] <wxl> but that may be asking too much out of xp :)
[22:57] <macksting> Is that something one should do with a shaky wireless card?
[22:57] <macksting> I was told otherwise.
[22:58] <wxl> try less pronouns pleae
[22:58] <macksting> Oh. I'll try.
[22:59] <macksting> I've been told I shouldn't try SSH with a shaky wireless NIC. It's inconsistent, and prone to stop working often.
[22:59] <wxl> by that notion, nothing works
[23:00] <wxl> and what's "shaky" with the nic?
[23:00] <macksting> Not sure. It just stops working often. I don't actually know how to diagnose the problem.
[23:00] <wxl> then if you shouldn't use ssh, you shouldn't use anyuthing
[23:01] <macksting> Oh. So SSH isn't actually worse for the purpose?
[23:02] <wxl> it's no worse than smtp or pop or imap or http or…
[23:02]  * macksting nods.
[23:02] <wxl> looks like samba's the best way :/
[23:03] <macksting> Oh. Is it? Here I was thinking of dismantling my successful but dubious sharing for safety's sake. Any clue what I did right?
[23:03] <wxl> configured samba.
[23:03]  * macksting nods.
[23:03] <macksting> Well, I guess that's pretty much the answer. Situation's scary.
[23:04] <wxl> just install samba, read the docs, you'll be fine
[23:04] <wxl> copy config files from the other install as needed
[23:04] <wxl> that's probably where your success lies
[23:04] <macksting> Okay. I'd say I didn't have a lot of luck with doing so before, but it seems I DID have some luck doing it before and just couldn't tell until I got my XP install working.
[23:04] <macksting> Which is unnerving.
[23:04] <wxl> and afaik it's not well integrated into pcmanfm so don't expect too much out of the file manager (i could be wrong, but pcmanfm is pretty darn simple)
[23:04] <wxl> doubtful you'll break anything
[23:05] <wxl> worse case you simply don't get it working
[23:05] <wxl> keep track of what you do if you need ot undo it
[23:05] <macksting> Good thinking.
[23:06] <macksting> Part of what worries me is I don't know what I did, so I don't know what I didn't do. I don't know much, but it seems to me from a security standpoint that's worriesome.
[23:06] <wxl> it all lies in the config file
[23:06] <wxl> opening ports in and of itself is not a huge deal, especially if it's within a local network
[23:06]  * macksting nods.
[23:06] <wxl> reading samba config files can be intense
[23:06] <wxl> they're not simple
[23:06] <macksting> Oh dear.
[23:07] <wxl> if you want an audit, hit up the samba guys!
[23:07] <macksting> Oh! Where? #samba, perhaps?
[23:07] <wxl> yeppers
[23:07] <macksting> Shveet.
[23:07] <macksting> Think they'd find the circumstance amusing?
[23:07] <wxl> doubtful
[23:07] <macksting> Darn.
[23:07] <wxl> they've had much worse
[23:08] <macksting> If "worse" is what amuses them, I'll have to try harder.
[23:08] <wxl> much
[23:10] <macksting> Well, I'm'a try to look at the Samba docs so I can find the configuration files so I can try to suss them out, or at least copy them.
[23:10] <wxl> use yours as a starting point
[23:10] <macksting> Yep. Figured I'd hit up the laptop, as it's pretty clearly all there and done.
[23:10] <wxl> don't try to understand samba, but try to learn what your config does
[23:10] <wxl> right
[23:11] <macksting> So I'll be on the other side of the room for a few, trying to suss this out for myself. If I find a question, I'm apt to come back, and/or just ask in #samba.
[23:11] <macksting> Thanks.
[23:11] <macksting> (Why is it necessary to go to the other side of the room? 'Cause the laptop battery's too old to disconnect for long, and the cord sucks.)
[23:12] <macksting> WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT?!
[23:12] <macksting> It says samba isn't installed.
[23:13] <macksting> The LAPTOP says that. The laptop that is hosting a folder which is accessible by XP.
[23:13] <wxl> macksting: run through all your services and see if you can figure out what's running
[23:13] <wxl> it HAS to be a daemon of some kind
[23:14] <wxl> might be nfs? doubtful but
[23:14] <macksting> Worth a look. How do I get a list of what's running at the moment?
[23:14] <macksting> Sorry, total n00b.
[23:14] <wxl> `service --status-all`
[23:14] <macksting> Gracias.
[23:15] <wxl> de nada.
[23:16] <macksting> Well, nfs-kernel-server shows as functioning.
[23:16] <macksting> Think that's the culprit?
[23:16] <wxl> yeah though i thought that nfs didn't work out of the box on windows
[23:16]  * wxl is not the windows expert
[23:17] <wxl> !nfs
[23:17]  * macksting nods
[23:17] <wxl> yay there you go macksting ↑
[23:17] <macksting> Gracias. That's a familiar URL. It's been a couple months, but I feel like this is a good place to start.
[23:20]  * macksting grunts.
[23:21] <macksting> It appears I didn't use that particular how-to, nor the one to which it links (the tl;dr version), 'cause I don't have the directories described in either page. This could be hilarious.
[23:23] <macksting> Hrm. With that in mind, I looked at the list of running services again and found smbd.  That should help.
[23:30] <macksting> It really did tell me I don't have samba. Even suggested I apt-get install samba
[23:30] <macksting> I think I'll opt not to.


[08:32] <seb128> goood morning desktopers!
[09:02] <seb128> ricotz, hey, how are you?
[09:07] <ricotz> seb128, hey, I am fine, thanks, how are you?
[09:07] <seb128> ricotz, I'm alright thanks!
[09:08] <seb128> ricotz, so sorry to bother you again with that, but is the thunderbird issue purely a packaging one from our side or something upstream is doing differently which isn't working as well as before?
[09:08] <seb128> I would like to report that to them but I'm unsure to understand what I should ask them for exactly
[09:10] <ricotz> seb128, did you try the repack build yet?
[09:10] <seb128> ricotz, no, it was late yesterday evening and I had another SRU regression to resolve then I had no time left
[09:11] <seb128> I'm doing that now
[09:11] <ricotz> ok, will install it here now too
[09:21] <ricotz> seb128, hmm, looks like the l10n-central repos are still required and merged with comm-l10n in some way
[09:22] <ricotz> seb128, see taskcluster/scripts/desktop_comm_l10n.py, I think its usage might come up in the snap build log?
[09:22] <seb128> ricotz, the repacked version from the ppa doesn't fix the issue, 'To',  'Mail' and others are still in english
[09:24] <seb128> ricotz, well the snap is using the upstream builds and not building from source so it's difficult to compare but that's basically what we do,
[09:24] <seb128>       XPIURL=https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/candidates/$VERSION-candidates/build$BUILD/linux-x86_64/xpi
[09:25] <seb128>       for locale in de es-ES fr it ja pt-PT pt-BR ru zh-CN; do curl -o<EMAIL_ADDRESS>"$XPIURL/$locale.xpi"; done
[09:25] <ricotz> oh, I assumed there is a build process going on :\
[09:26] <seb128> it's on our backlog to make the thunderbird snap a source build like firefox
[09:26] <seb128> but that shows that the upstream .xpi are matching the version and working
[09:27] <seb128> now I'm unsure how they build them but I can try asking
[09:28] <seb128> ricotz, should I try to revert https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/thunderbird/thunderbird.lunar/revision/753 or is that not going to work due to the upstream vcs changes you mentioned?
[09:29] <ricotz> seb128, see above comments, this repos is needed for the thunderbird parts, but additionally l10n-central is still needed for the browser parts
[09:30] <ricotz> reverting won't work
[09:30] <seb128> ah, I see
[09:30] <ricotz> so whatever taskcluster/scripts/desktop_comm_l10n.py needs to be redone in rules.mk
[09:31] <ricotz> https://searchfox.org/comm-central/source/taskcluster/comm_taskgraph/transforms/l10n_pre.py
[09:38] <seb128> ricotz, do you think you could give a try at doing that? if not I will add it to my backlog but my day became complicate because of issues with the Ubuntu Pro SRUs and a sick teacher which means having to handle a kid in parallel, so it's probably not going to be today for me
[09:52] <ricotz> seb128, I will give it a try when time permits
[09:52] <seb128> ricotz, thanks, I appreciate it
[09:53] <seb128> I need to change location and close IRC, back in ~10min
[13:48] <ricotz> seb128, this should look better now - https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/14462378/+listing-archive-extra
[13:55] <seb128> ricotz, it is slightly but still a regression :-(
[13:56] <seb128> I can see some of the items which weren't translated back, but things like 'To' in the composer or 'Mail' on the left bar aren't translated in french
[13:58] <ricotz> I would not say "slightly" while the translations of the whole settings sections are back ;)
[14:01] <ricotz> seb128, https://paste.debian.net/plain/1268531
[14:01] <seb128> ricotz, ok, sorry, I checked 3 labels I knew without translations on the main UI and 2 are still missing
[14:02] <seb128> so probably not an accurate testcase, sorry for the mischaracterization
[14:02] <seb128> but there is still a problem
[14:02] <ricotz> don't worry
[14:54] <schopin> ricotz: just in case you weren't stalking the rust-updates PPA in the past few days, everything should be in order now ;-)
[14:57] <ricotz> schopin, hey, thank you, already making use of it :)
[14:57] <schopin> I figured as much
[14:57] <ricotz> xenial backports worked out as well
[15:53] <ricotz> seb128, shall I push my thunderbird packaging changes for lunar?
[15:53] <seb128> ricotz, yes please
[15:54] <ricotz> done
[15:54] <seb128> ricotz, are you still working on figuring out the remaining missing strings issues or should I try to msg the mozilla people about it?
[15:54] <seb128> thx
[15:55] <seb128> or did that commit include more change compared to the previous build?
[15:55] <ricotz> seb128, I am not working on it anymore
[15:55] <seb128> ack
[15:55] <ricotz> no, those changes resulted in the build1.2 tarball
[15:57] <nteodosio> Eickmeyer, what is the reasoning behind closing a track after it has been open? Opening seems to be covered in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSeededSnaps#Channel_availability, but the closing I don't get.
[15:58] <nteodosio> ^bug 2000849.
[15:58] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2000849 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "[snap] Request: open (and close) stable/ubuntu-23.04 track" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2000849
[15:58] <Eickmeyer> nteodosio: That's just what mwhudson taught me to do. Keeps it from showing as an available track in the snap store, aaui.
[15:59] <Eickmeyer> (aiui)
[15:59] <Eickmeyer> However, it doesn't prevent it from seeding.
[16:00] <nteodosio> Alright, I'm not familiar with the process. The idea is then to simply open and close the track and I don't even have to wait for seeding.
[16:01] <Eickmeyer> Right.
[16:01] <seb128> nteodosio, our ISO builds are set up to track the stable/ubuntu-xx.yy channel
[16:01] <seb128> that way the user systems are configured in a way that allow us to publish a revision in that channel if ever needed
[16:02] <seb128> but we close it which makes the store fallback to use to stable
[16:02] <seb128> so in mean they use stable
[16:02] <seb128> but with an opt-out mechanism to control back if needed
[16:02] <nteodosio> Ah I understand! Thanks seb128.
[16:02] <seb128> np!
[16:03] <tsimonq2> OOC, who actually has the powers to open and close those tracks?
[16:03] <nteodosio> tsimonq2, AFAIK, the snap store folks.
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: And the people who publish the individual snaps.
[16:04] <tsimonq2> Would be nice to get a list/prevent what happened at the beginning of this cycle ;)
[16:04] <seb128> tsimonq2, nteodosio, the owners/collaborators of that specific snap
[16:04] <tsimonq2> (If the track doesn't exist yet, the ISO build flat out fails)
[16:05] <seb128> we have a list and an archive opening item
[16:05] <seb128> if a flavor decide to preload a new snap they need to tell us they are doing so and we add it to the list
[16:08] <nteodosio> seb128, this information is then out of date/inaccurate? "Developers must currently make a request for tracks to be added to their snap via the #store-requests forum category" — https://snapcraft.io/docs/channels
[16:10] <seb128> nteodosio, I'm not familiar enough with the store to be sure, maybe Ken would know but he's not on IRC atm
[16:13] <ogra> nteodosio, this is exactly the process .... the forum requests are our paper trail for such things so you can even in 2y still find out why a channel/track was created by whom and why
[16:14] <seb128> ogra, but not a process we follow to open/close stable/ubuntu-xx.yy tracks for our default snaps afaik...
[16:14] <ogra> seb128, ah, thats bad ... i think they should be handled the same way (though i guess people just bribe someone via mattermost to get a shortcut)
[16:16] <Eickmeyer> I mean, Studio seeds Freeshow, a snap I maintain, so I open/close a stable/ubuntu-xx.yy track with every upload. Should I have been making a request to myself via the forum?
[16:17] <ogra> how are you abl to open official presistent channels ? only store admins can ... usually
[16:18] <ogra> devs/uploaders can open temporary branches (that automatically time out), but not permanent release channels
[16:18] <Eickmeyer> That's the thing. The seeds require only that a track have existed, not that it currently exists.
[16:19] <ogra> but then th ecannel is useless ? isnt it to provide release specific backports of fixes ?
[16:20] <ogra> at least that is how it was explained to me in 2016 by foundations .... 🙂
[16:20] <Eickmeyer> In the case of Freeshow, it appears as though once it's installed on the system, it just follows the stable track from then on out.
[16:20] <ogra> so why are yu not just using the stable channel all over then ?
[16:21] <Eickmeyer> Because the seed requires that a stable/ubuntu-xx.yy track exists for the seed.
[16:21] <ogra> seems pretty pointless to open a channel just for an image build if you fall back to te latest/stable one anyway
[16:21] <ogra> oh my
[16:21] <Eickmeyer> Otherwise the .iso build will simply fail.
[16:22] <ogra> yeah, smells like we painted ourselves into a corner here ...
[16:24] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I can't explain it. All I know is that in order for it to be seeded, it has to have the stable/ubuntu-xx.yy track opened and closed, then it seeds properly.
[16:25]  * Eickmeyer off to take his son to school
[16:31] <jbicha> ogra: the idea is that Ubuntu could release a fix specific to people running Jammy, if necessary, but usually all Ubuntu releases offer the same snap version
[16:33] <ogra> jbicha, right, but once your app switched to latest/stable it wont go back to stable/ubuntu-xxx so if you dont keep the track, it is moot to have it in the first place
[16:34] <jbicha> ogra: I think you'll find that on user systems, it continues to track the specific Ubuntu branch unless a user switches branches
[16:35] <ogra> jbicha, it switches as soon as the track expired IIRc
[16:36] <jbicha> if that happens, the Ubuntu Tech Board would need to know that, since this branch handling is their policy
[16:36] <ogra> jbicha, well, thats the default behavior for temporary developer branches AFAIK
[16:37] <ogra> (which are actually designed to test fixes and commits temporary, i dnt think they were expected to be used fr image builds, but ICBW)
[16:37] <nteodosio> Aren't we mixing tracks and branches here? It's [track/]channel[/branch].
[16:38] <ogra> nteodosio, well, one is a thing you ad a dev can create yourself (because it automatically goes away and moves your app to latest/stable automatically after the testing) ... the other is a thing the store admins need to create and these are permanent
[16:38] <ogra> *you as
[16:41] <nteodosio> ogra, right, but Eickmeyer metntioned "in order for it to be seeded, it has to have the stable/ubuntu-xx.yy track opened and closed", probably he meant "ubuntu-xx.yy/stable track" instead.
[16:42] <ogra> nteodosio, right, i just doubt the usefulness of this if it snaps back into latest/stable anyway ... sounds pointless to have such a policy if the channel is not planned to be permanent to ship release specific fixes
[16:43] <nteodosio> ogra, I was counting on that after closing the track, reopening would make snapd automatically follow that track again. Otherwise that does look pointless.
[16:44] <ogra> IIRC the reason for that policy was to a) have reproducable builds (which you wont with an expiring thing) and b) to be able to have release-specific fixes for software ...
[16:45] <ogra> since both wont be possible with an expiring branch, we could as well get rid of that policy ...
[16:46] <nteodosio> ogra, what do you mean with expiring? Tracks don't expire, only branches, correct?
[16:47] <ogra> i always forget which is which ... but the non-expiring ones require a store admin to create them ... the others expire after 30 or 60 days and are gone then ... no way to re-enable them with their old content
[16:48] <nteodosio> Yes, the tracks don't expire, they are the ones we have to request to the store. The branches expire, and we don't need to request them.
[16:48] <ogra> right
[16:48] <ogra> and i dont think the latter ones make sense in context f the policy that is in place
[16:49] <nteodosio> The branches are not in that policy indeed, rather the tracks.
[16:53] <Eickmeyer> nteodosio: No, I meant stable/ubuntu-xx.yy track, as seb128 was saying as well.
[16:55] <nteodosio> Eickmeyer, but that is not a track: The definition is track/risk/branch: https://snapcraft.io/docs/channels
[16:56] <nteodosio> If you really meant to open the branch though, yes I can do that directly without asking the Snap Store.
[16:56] <Eickmeyer> If that's the case, then it's explained incorrectly in the error message in the .iso builder.
[16:57] <nteodosio> Alright, sorry, sticking to terminology threw me off the _track_
[16:57] <ogra> lol
[16:57] <Eickmeyer> LOL
[16:58]  * Eickmeyer blames cdimage-rootfs
[16:59]  * ogra blames the inventor of the nomenclature ...
[16:59] <ogra> it is just confusing ... (which is why i name them by behavior usually)


[19:47] <rick_h_> lazyPower: fyi https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1446788 unable to dupe it atm. We did a release last week and wonder if we accidently corrected something
[19:47] <mup> Bug #1446788: Build-a-bundle appears broken in firefox on jujucharms.com <juju-gui:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446788>
[19:47] <rick_h_> lazyPower: please let us know if you can still dupe and we can try to figure out what we're missing