[00:02] <rump> prepend_delivered_to
[00:03] <rump> prepend_delivered_header rather
[00:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: ping
[00:26] <SpamapS> lifeless: pong, howdy
[00:26] <lifeless> I've installed lxc
[00:26] <lifeless> but it didn't bring in cgroup-bin
[00:26] <lifeless> is that optional ?
[00:26] <lifeless> or a missing dep ?
[00:27] <lifeless> also, my /etc/lxc directory is empty
[00:27] <lifeless> (I have no basic.conf)
[00:27] <lifeless> SpamapS: ^
[00:29] <SpamapS> hm
[00:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: /etc/lxc is in fact intentional
[00:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: but I think cgroup-bin seems like it should be in lxc's Depends or at least Recommends
[00:31] <SpamapS> as its not much use w/o cgroups
[00:35] <lifeless> SpamapS: so, can I have your basic.conf ?
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.type=veth
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.link=virbr0
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.flags=up
[00:37] <SpamapS> Thats it
[00:38] <lifeless> I'm filing bugs on the missing dep
[00:38] <lifeless> does it need libvirt-bin too ?
[00:40] <SpamapS> hallyn: if you're around.. lifeless is working with LXC and curious why it doesn't recommend/depend on cgroup-bin (I am also curious about that)
[00:41] <SpamapS> lifeless: I believe hallyn is EDT or CDT US, so he may be past EOD today
[00:41] <lifeless> bug 800456
[00:41] <SpamapS> new baby at home tho so there's no telling when he's sleeping or awake. :)
[00:41]  * SpamapS confirms that
[00:42] <SpamapS> lifeless: note that it may be related to bug 784093
[00:42] <lifeless> sure
[00:42] <SpamapS> I posted a workaround for that bug which I'm using now
[00:44] <lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview is what I'm building up
[00:47] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey can look at the by end of week
[00:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: how do you tell lxc-create to use the local proxy ?
[00:52] <keyboardtalk> I cannot access my printer on ubuntu server 10.04 from other computers (windows) on network. How can I fix this? HP printer with CUPS
[00:54] <SpamapS> lifeless: it runs debootstrap, which respects the appropriate environment variables I think. If they're being stripped, add them to /etc/default/lxc
[00:55] <lifeless> it was sudo
[00:55] <SpamapS> lifeless: I use MIRROR=http://<IP_ADDRESS>:9999/ubuntu in mine.. which is the path to my local approx cache
[00:55] <lifeless> sudo http_proxy=... lxc-create...
[01:01] <lifeless> SpamapS: lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:01] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:01] <lifeless> SpamapS: I have that workaround in place already
[01:02] <lifeless> ls /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu
[01:02] <lifeless> cgroup.clone_children  cgroup.event_control  cgroup.procs  cpu.rt_period_us  cpu.rt_runtime_us  cpu.shares  notify_on_release  release_agent  tasks
[01:04] <SpamapS> lifeless: did you restart cgred ?
[01:05] <lifeless> ah
[01:05] <lifeless> SpamapS: robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo service cgred restart
[01:05] <lifeless> cgred start/running, process 21711
[01:05] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo lxc-start -n lucid-test-lp
[01:05] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:06] <SpamapS> Argh!
[01:06] <lifeless> there is a devices.deny under the devices tree
[01:06] <lifeless> uhm, i think I managed to flub the copy-paste
[01:07] <SpamapS> double Argh!
[01:07]  * SpamapS knows how Charlie Brown feels when Lucy pulls back the football
[01:07] <lifeless> ok, *now* have this:
[01:07] <lifeless> mount {
[01:07] <lifeless>         cpu = /sys/fs//cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         cpuacct = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         devices = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         memory = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless> }
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo service cgred restart
[01:07] <lifeless> cgred start/running, process 21766
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo lxc-start -n lucid-test-lp
[01:07] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ ls /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu
[01:08] <lifeless> cgroup.clone_children  cgroup.event_control  cgroup.procs  cpu.rt_period_us  cpu.rt_runtime_us  cpu.shares  notify_on_release  release_agent  tasks
[01:10] <lifeless> SpamapS: cgconfig restart appears to be the magic
[01:10] <SpamapS> AH right
[01:11] <lifeless> this doesn't look brilliant;
[01:11] <lifeless> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS lucid-test-lp /dev/console
[01:11] <lifeless> lucid-test-lp login: init: ssh main process (45) terminated with status 255
[01:14] <lifeless> SpamapS: also lxc-stop doesn't seem to stop t
[01:14] <lifeless> *it*
[01:14] <SpamapS> lifeless: that is actually normal, its caused by sshd starting before the network, and I believe it gets started later when the ifup finishes
[01:14] <SpamapS> heh.. impossible to tell because there's no syslog
[01:14] <SpamapS> doh
[01:16] <SpamapS> lifeless: installing rsyslog seems to have made sshd not die.
[01:17] <lifeless> SpamapS: interesting; as you say its cosmetic though
[01:17] <lifeless> so I'll note that its weird and move on; I can file a bug somewhere if you like
[01:17] <SpamapS> lifeless: lxc-stop actually does stop the container
[01:17] <SpamapS> it just says it can't
[01:18] <lifeless>  sudo lxc-stop -n lucid-lp-test
[01:18] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ echo $?
[01:18] <lifeless> 0
[01:18] <SpamapS> which is annoying
[01:18] <lifeless> I dispute this 'says it cannot' thing :)
[01:18] <lifeless> given I can ssh into the container after running that
[01:21] <SpamapS> Mine went away
[01:21] <SpamapS> lxc-stop: failed to stop 'lucid-test2': Operation not permitted
[01:21] <lifeless> mine hasn't :)
[01:21] <SpamapS> After saying that
[01:21] <hallyn> SpamapS: it doesn't work well with cgroup-bin right now, in fact
[01:21] <lifeless> should I file a bug ?
[01:21] <hallyn> needs some lubin
[01:21] <SpamapS> I'm able to halt it from inside too.
[01:21] <lifeless> SpamapS: I can poweroff internally
[01:21] <lifeless> just not -stop externally
[01:22] <SpamapS> lifeless: hallyn can probably answer your questions with an order of magnitude more authority than I can. :)
[01:23] <hallyn> i'm guessing your problems are due to cgred
[01:24] <hallyn> recommend just doing mount -t cgroup cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup and thart's that
[01:24] <hallyn> we do need to fix cgroup-bin interaction
[01:25] <SpamapS> hallyn: but it would be cooler if it worked with cgroup-bin. :)
[01:25] <lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview is what I'm writing pu
[01:25] <hallyn> SpamapS: patches welcome :)
[01:26] <hallyn> SpamapS: might work on that at the sprint
[01:26] <ntoombs> hello
[01:26] <ntoombs> i have a question
[01:26] <ntoombs> i am recieving an error that looks like:
[01:27] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: Invalid argument
[01:27] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1.
[01:27] <ntoombs>    ...done.
[01:27] <ntoombs> after i try to restart networking using the sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
[01:27] <SpamapS> ntoombs: thats not actually a valid way to "restart networking"
[01:28] <ntoombs> i have my network set up on static using the device eth1
[01:28] <ntoombs> what is a valid way then?
[01:28] <ntoombs> i've done it before using dhcp
[01:28] <ntoombs> but static messed it up
[01:28] <SpamapS> For static it *should* work...
[01:29] <ntoombs> right but for some reason it's not
[01:29] <SpamapS> ntoombs: all that does is ifdown -a and ifup -a
[01:29] <ntoombs> i've been into my /etc/network/interfaces file and made sure everything is "correct" as far as i know
[01:29] <SpamapS> ntoombs: can you do 'ifdown eth1 ; ifup eth1' ?
[01:29] <ntoombs> i have before and i've gotten errors
[01:29] <ntoombs> i will post them
[01:29] <ntoombs> one sec
[01:30] <ntoombs> sudo ifdown eth1
[01:30] <ntoombs> ifdown: interface eth1 not configured
[01:30] <ntoombs> sudo ifup eth1
[01:31] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: No such process
[01:31] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1
[01:31] <qman__> first check that eth1 exists in 'ifconfig -a'
[01:31] <ntoombs> i've looked in about every ubuntu and linux server forum there is out there and i still havn't fixed it
[01:32] <qman__> those errors are usually hardware/driver level
[01:32] <ntoombs> i know it's there
[01:32] <ntoombs> i put it there
[01:32] <qman__> yes, but does it show up in ifconfig -a?
[01:32] <ntoombs> :( don't tell me that
[01:32] <qman__> configuring it and it showing up are different things
[01:32] <ntoombs> yes it does
[01:32] <qman__> ok
[01:32] <qman__> does setting it manually with ifconfig work?
[01:33] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS>/24 up
[01:33] <ntoombs> i've tried that too but i'll try again
[01:34] <qman__> if it does work, it's likely an issue with the configuration or ifup
[01:34] <qman__> if it doesn't work, try this first
[01:34] <ntoombs> i use the internal ip right?
[01:34] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS> down
[01:34] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS> up
[01:34] <qman__> then configuring it with the IP you want
[01:36] <ntoombs> on doing the ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS>/24 up i got a right bracket pointing to my cursur
[01:36] <qman__> that's a syntax error
[01:37] <qman__> check that you didn't put in any \ or " or '
[01:37] <qman__> press ctrl+c to escape
[01:37] <ntoombs> yea i did it wrong
[01:37] <hallyn> lifeless: do you need cgroups-bin for some other reason, or was that just how you were getting cgroups mounted?
[01:37] <ntoombs> k this time no result
[01:37] <ntoombs> just a new line
[01:38] <qman__> that means successful
[01:38] <qman__> now 'ifconfig eth1' to verify
[01:38] <hallyn> lifeless: assuming this is on natty or oneiric, can you try without cgroups-bin, and just with fstab mounting cgroups?
[01:38] <hallyn> I suspect that'll allow lxc-stop to work
[01:38] <ntoombs> yea it's 11.04 natty narwhal
[01:39] <ntoombs> ifconfig eth1 gave me what it gave me before
[01:39] <lifeless> hallyn: just following SpamapS instructions :)
[01:39] <qman__> if it shows the address you set, it worked and there's nothing wrong with your interface
[01:39] <qman__> and the problem is either with your /etc/network/interfaces or something in ifup
[01:40] <ntoombs> well when i had my interface setup up on dhcp
[01:40] <qman__> if it shows a different or no address, you probably have something else hooking it
[01:40] <qman__> like dhcpcd
[01:40] <ntoombs> i could ping anything all day long
[01:40] <ntoombs> it showed the ip address that i set to it staticaly
[01:40] <qman__> so the interface is fine
[01:41] <qman__> next most likely is an error in /etc/network/interfaces, pastebin it if you can
[01:41] <ntoombs> yea and the netmask is <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:41] <ntoombs> ok one sec
[01:41] <ntoombs> i'll block out the ip
[01:41] <qman__> don't
[01:41] <ntoombs> ok
[01:41] <qman__> showing your IP isn't a security risk, everyone in here is publicly showing theirs
[01:42] <qman__> by connecting to freenode at all, you are
[01:42] <qman__> plus, if it's behind a NAT, it's meaningless to anyone but you anyway
[01:42] <ntoombs> http://pastebin.com/VhyRDawJ
[01:42] <ntoombs> k
[01:43] <ntoombs> i'm a networking noob
[01:43] <ntoombs> thank you so much for helping me :)
[01:43] <qman__> looks fine
[01:43] <qman__> try this
[01:43] <ntoombs> i can access my router with that gateway in my browser
[01:43] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS> up; sudo ifup eth1
[01:44] <ntoombs> same error i've been getting
[01:44] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: No such process
[01:44] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1.
[01:45] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, cool, then just don't use it :)
[01:45] <hallyn> I just have
[01:45] <hallyn> cgroup	/sys/fs/cgroup	cgroup	defaults	0	0
[01:46] <ntoombs> i don't understand hallyn
[01:46] <hallyn> (in fstab)
[01:46] <hallyn> ntoombs: sorry wasn't directed at you
[01:46] <ntoombs> oh sorry
[01:46] <ntoombs> i guess i'm missing the other side of the conversation
[01:47] <hallyn> ntoombs: just having a very async conversation with lifeless :)
[01:47] <qman__> ntoombs, try changing in your /etc/network/interfaces file
[01:47] <qman__> so that 'address <IP_ADDRESS>' is just like that, with only one space
[01:47] <qman__> on all the lines
[01:47] <ntoombs> ok
[01:48] <ntoombs> done
[01:48] <qman__> and try ifup again
[01:49] <ntoombs> same error
[01:49] <ntoombs> sudo ifconfig eth1 <IP_ADDRESS> up; sudo ifup eth1 right?
[01:49] <qman__> just sudo ifup eth1
[01:50] <ntoombs> yea same error
[01:51] <qman__> well
[01:51] <qman__> unless your interfaces file is somehow different
[01:51] <ntoombs> the networking restart thing worked with dhcp
[01:51] <ntoombs> it doesn't work with static
[01:52] <ntoombs> does that count as different?
[01:52] <qman__> paste/pastebin the result of 'sudo route -n'
[01:52] <qman__> that error message means that it can't add a route because it's outside the valid range
[01:53] <keyboardtalk> How do I share a cups printer?
[01:53] <ntoombs> http://pastebin.com/i4qcmrzu
[01:53] <ntoombs> the <IP_ADDRESS> was assigned by dhcp
[01:53] <ntoombs> i didn't change it
[01:54] <ntoombs> route doesn't seem to recongnise my default gateway
[01:54] <qman__> it isn't set
[01:54] <ntoombs> without -n it just shows an asterix
[01:54] <qman__> try this
[01:55] <qman__> http://pastebin.com/index/VhyRDawJ
[01:55] <qman__> change your /etc/network/interfaces to that, and reboot
[01:56] <qman__> assuming .15 is not already in use
[01:56] <qman__> you can use another one if it is, just choose one outside the DHCP range
[01:56] <qman__> which is probably 100-200
[01:57] <ntoombs> nothing is different
[01:57] <ntoombs> and i'm working on a headless server from an ssh connection from my mac so if i reboot i'm afraid i won't be able to get back
[01:57] <ntoombs> i'll check the range
[01:58] <qman__> well, you can't very well change network settings without disconnecting
[01:58] <qman__> are you connected to a different interface?
[01:58] <ntoombs> it's from 1 - 253 :P
[01:58] <qman__> well, you should limit that
[01:58] <ntoombs> you can if you use networking restart
[01:58] <qman__> and then choose an address outside of it
[01:59] <qman__> using 'networking restart' would, in fact, disconnect you if the settings changed
[01:59] <qman__> if you did not get disconnected, it means the settings didn't change
[01:59] <ntoombs> yea it did last time
[01:59] <ntoombs> and i had to reconnect
[01:59] <ntoombs> i guess i just got lucky
[01:59] <ntoombs> ok i'll reboot
[01:59] <ntoombs> your pastebin file... what was different?
[02:00] <qman__> I just added network and broadcast
[02:00] <qman__> and removed the extra spaces
[02:00] <ntoombs> oh i had that earlier
[02:00] <ntoombs> but i didn't reboot
[02:00] <ntoombs> i'll try it
[02:00] <qman__> what is most likely, is something is hooking your interface and preventing the change from being made
[02:00] <qman__> a reboot would solve that issue
[02:00] <ntoombs> i don't see the network and broadcast in there
[02:01] <ntoombs> its network <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:01] <qman__> ff
[02:01] <ntoombs> and broadcast <IP_ADDRESS>?
[02:01] <qman__> http://pastebin.com/muYERLhT
[02:01] <qman__> sorry
[02:01] <ntoombs> no problem :)
[02:02] <ntoombs> and should i change the dhcp range in my router?
[02:02] <qman__> yes
[02:02] <qman__> if the router tries to hand out the IP you're using, it'll be troublesome
[02:02] <ntoombs> k i'm doing all that right now
[02:02] <ntoombs> brb
[02:02] <qman__> so you should open a gap in that DHCP range, and use it for your statics
[02:03] <twb> Or simply instruct the DHCP server to statically allocate leases by MAC for specific IPs
[02:04] <ntoombs> should i unplug my router for changes to take effect?
[02:04] <qman__> no
[02:04] <ntoombs> ok
[02:04] <qman__> unless your router is a really poor quality one
[02:04] <ntoombs> lol
[02:04] <qman__> it should apply once you click save
[02:04] <ntoombs> it's not that bad
[02:04] <ntoombs> it's applied but my desktop isn't assigned a local ip anymore
[02:05] <ntoombs> i'm on my laptop
[02:05] <ntoombs> but it's no problem for now
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: sorry, was on the phone for a bit there
[02:05] <ntoombs> i'll edit my interfaces file now
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: I'd rather not be telling folk to mount cgroups by hand in my docs - https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview
[02:05] <hallyn> lifeless: not even using fstab?
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: particularly as folk may have cgroup-bin installed for other reasons
[02:06] <lifeless> which would presumably clash in fun ways
[02:06] <hallyn> not-quite-sleeping baby in lap, would you midn talking tomorrow?
[02:06] <ntoombs> rebooting now
[02:06] <hallyn> lifeless: i think the real problem with the cgroups is that lxc-init doesn't start in cgroup:/ like it expects.  (Since you seem to have all cgrousp compsited under same dir, that's the only thing that should be going wrong)
[02:07] <hallyn> lifeless:  if this is high priority, i can take a crack at solving this tomorrow
[02:07] <hallyn> should be about a day's work, and like i say, it needs to be done sometime
[02:08] <lifeless> hallyn: well, I have a workaround (the new cgconfig from SpamapS) for folk using natty, which most lp devs are atm
[02:08] <ntoombs> qman__ looks like it's gonna time out and it's still not showing up on my router
[02:08] <lifeless> only a few are brave enough to be on oni yet
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: if we can get it sorted for oni release, that would be awesome
[02:09] <qman__> ntoombs, it's not getting a DHCP lease, so it won't show up in the router
[02:09] <qman__> try pinging the IP address you gave it
[02:09] <hallyn> lifeless: so it all works with SpamapS'  config?
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: well, it doesn't shutdown on lxc-stop
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: but poweroff inside it appears to work
[02:09] <ntoombs> qman__: it would ping once then timeout
[02:10] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, cool, if you can get work done with that, that's great
[02:10] <lifeless> we certainly can; I like to report all friction I run into though.
[02:10] <qman__> ntoombs, does it keep doing so?
[02:10] <ntoombs> qman__: dont i need it to show up on the router to do port forwarding and connect to the internet?
[02:10] <lifeless> hallyn: I'll file a separate bug about the lxc-stop not working
[02:10] <hallyn> lifeless: cool, i'll put cgroup-bin interaction high on todo list meanwhile
[02:11] <qman__> as in, one response per ping?
[02:11] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, thanks
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: sweet, thanks
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: yes it times out every time after the first packet
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: one thing that would be -awesome-
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: would be a template that bind mounts /home and uses the same uids
[02:11] <qman__> so if you stop and start a new ping, the first packet gets a response, but none after that?
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: i get one good packet then it times out every second after
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: correct
[02:12] <qman__> that's either a hardware problem, a driver problem, or a really bizarre firewall problem
[02:12] <hallyn> lifeless: shouldn't be too bad.  would you want just /etc/shadow entries for uids 1000+ copied over, or the whole thing?
[02:12] <lifeless> hallyn: let me describe my use case; then you can decide :)
[02:13] <qman__> physically, how are you connected?
[02:13] <qman__> direct to the router, or through a secondary switch?
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: I want to do LP development in a lxc container rather than a VM
[02:13] <hallyn> lifeless: the thing i've been using a lot (from ppa) is lxc cloning with LVM.  Seems like something which could be good for lp dev
[02:13] <ntoombs> qman__: well the server is connected by ethernet direct to the router. and i connect via ssh from a terminal on my mac
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: so in the container I want to install rabbitmq, postgresql, apache etc
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: and I want my source code sitting in my /home/robertc
[02:13] <qman__> mac is over ethernet or wifi?
[02:14] <lifeless> hallyn: where I can edit it as normal, commit with my bzr & gpg keys etc
[02:14] <keyboardtalk> How do I access a shared printer from Windows?
[02:14] <ntoombs> wifi
[02:14] <ntoombs> i can do eathernet though
[02:14] <qman__> try plugging into ethernet, and trying
[02:14] <qman__> it might be a wifi thing on the router
[02:14] <lifeless> hallyn: then run the tests within the lxc container, using the lxc postgresql, rabbit apache
[02:14] <ntoombs> ok
[02:14] <ntoombs> and again thanks a ton for helping :)
[02:14] <ntoombs> most people would have given up by now
[02:15] <ntoombs> this might disconnect me
[02:15] <qman__> not a problem, some routers do some strange things in the name of 'security'
[02:15] <lifeless> hallyn: so inside the lxc it needs to write to me homedir without messing stuff up, but I don't care about service accounts
[02:15] <hallyn> lifeless: would you want the whole /home bind-mounted?  just ~/src or something?
[02:16] <lifeless> hallyn: whole home/$me would be easiest to reason about I think
[02:16] <hallyn> 'without messing stuff up' meaning not changing owner uids, right?
[02:16] <lifeless> yeah
[02:16] <hallyn> ok
[02:16] <lifeless> oh for bonus points,
[02:16] <hallyn> lifeless: i think i'd use that myself :)  would that be higher prio for you than cgroup-bin?
[02:16] <lifeless> definitely
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: bug 798476 is also a very interesting one for me
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: LP memory use is much lower on i386
[02:17] <ntoombs> qman__: my router says i'm still connected wirelessly and my ping comes back the same. i have airport turned off co i can't connect to anything wirelessly
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: shall I file a bug about the developer bind-mounting template [option, whatever - i dunno how it all hangs together yet]
[02:18] <hallyn> lifeless: sure, that's good.  (not sure hwo kosher it is to just add things to the blueprint right now)
[02:18] <qman__> well, I don't know anything about macs, but you didn't even time out, so you'd have to have the same IP address
[02:18] <qman__> which is unlikely if you switched to wired
[02:18] <hallyn> lifeless: hm, people *have* run i386 containers on amd64
[02:19] <hallyn> but i can't remember who
[02:19] <lifeless> yeah
[02:19] <ntoombs> qman__: i really think i just have a dumb router
[02:19] <lifeless> its probably just a case of passing the arch flag to debootstrap
[02:19] <twb> hallyn: I do it
[02:19] <qman__> ntoombs, entirely possible
[02:19] <lifeless> it *should* be trivial
[02:19] <twb> Actually, I did it only to see if I could; I don't in productioin
[02:19] <lifeless> twb: is it more than ^
[02:19] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/120603/
[02:20] <twb> Look in there for references to $arch
[02:20] <qman__> if you think that's the case, I'd give the router a reboot then
[02:20] <lifeless> twb: thanks
[02:20] <ntoombs> sounds good
[02:20] <ntoombs> brb
[02:20] <twb> Looks like only issue is debootstrap
[02:20] <twb> And as a knock-on effect, which debootstrap cache I copy
[02:22] <hallyn> twb: nifty, thanks
[02:24] <lifeless> hallyn: bug 800482
[02:24] <twb> Would it?
[02:24] <lifeless> it would
[02:25] <ntoombs_> qman__: i'm back
[02:25] <qman__> any luck?
[02:25] <ntoombs_> qman__: now i'm getting errors like ping: sendto: host is down
[02:25] <ntoombs_> and ping: sendto: no route to host
[02:26] <ntoombs_> but now my router says i'm on ethernet :)
[02:26] <hallyn> lifeless: cool, thanks
[02:27] <qman__> I'd try restarting the server again now that the router has rebooted, if you can reach the power button, just press it once quickly and it should power down
[02:27] <qman__> then press again to boot up
[02:27] <qman__> otherwise, if you can plug in a keyboard and press ctrl alt del
[02:27] <ntoombs_> ok
[02:27] <keyboardtalk> How does one access a shared printer (CUPS) hosted on ubuntu 10.04 from Windows client?
[02:28] <ntoombs_> quick press of a button did not a powerdown make
[02:28] <ntoombs_> i could hold it but i'm assuming that is not advisable?
[02:28] <qman__> generally no
[02:28] <qman__> but if you're not running any software yet it shouldn't cause too much trouble
[02:28] <qman__> what filesystem are you using?
[02:28] <ntoombs_> ext4 journaled so it's good
[02:29] <qman__> yeah
[02:29] <Feadin> Just did an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and it wants to upgrade language-pack-en which now suddenly has LOTS of crazy dependencies, including firefox and many X libs... anyone noticed this? I'm using v11.04
[02:29] <ntoombs_> to change anything i have to swap the hard drive to my desktop
[02:29] <ntoombs_> but we're just doing a reboot right?
[02:29] <qman__> right
[02:29] <qman__> if it still doesn't come online at all, you might have to do that though
[02:29] <twb> Feadin: no, but I know how to bypass the "helpful" locale packages and just generate the one you want
[02:29] <qman__> may be that your router is filtering it out
[02:30] <ntoombs_> whad do you suggest i change in my router?
[02:30] <twb> Feadin: uninstall those, then "locale-gen en_AU.UTF-8; update-locale LANG=en_AU.UTF-8", where "en" is your language and "AU" is your country.
[02:31] <ntoombs_> its a 2WIRE 2701HG
[02:31] <qman__> ah, that's the issue exactly then
[02:31] <Feadin> So you're suggesting we should bypass bugs and pretend that they don't exist? :) Just wanted to check if this is actually a bug or a new "feature" to simplify the maintainers jobs ;)
[02:31] <twb> Feadin: I'm suggesting you should do it the Debian way
[02:31] <twb> Basically because I don't like the "feature"
[02:31] <qman__> sounds odd but 2wire DSL routers ONLY allow connectivity with DHCP-leased clients
[02:31] <qman__> if you want to get around that limitation you need a better router
[02:32] <ntoombs_> how about different firmware?
[02:32] <qman__> theoretically possible but I don't know of any
[02:32] <ntoombs_> m0n0wall?
[02:32] <qman__> that firmware would allow it, but I don't know that it would run on your router
[02:32] <ntoombs_> i was wanting to change it to that anyway
[02:32] <twb> Feadin: AFAICT ubuntu default behaviour is more or less to installing *every* english locale for every CLI package as "language-pack-en-base", and every english locale for every GUI package as "language-pack-en".
[02:33] <Feadin> I get it, but if I wanted to use Debian I'd be using Debian man :) Come on I'm not talking about personal preferences here. I'm just asking if anyone knows anything about this crazy dependencies which IMO shouldn't be on a server
[02:33] <qman__> plus you need to make sure your ISP isn't doing some funny things with it
[02:33] <twb> Feadin: so in a default lucid server network install you lose about 200MB to thunderbird and firefox localization
[02:33] <qman__> AT&T U-verse is notorious for this
[02:33] <twb> Feadin: shrug.  Report a bug, then.
[02:34] <ntoombs_> its actually windstream
[02:34] <qman__> if the router allows DHCP reservations, that may be the easiest way to go
[02:34] <Feadin> Yeah I know I should report a bug, but only if it is actually a bug. I came here to ask if anyone knew anything about this issue in particular.
[02:35] <qman__> Feadin, does it actually depend on them, or just recommend them?
[02:35] <Feadin> I mean, adding 144MB of multimedia dependencies for a metapackage on a bew server installation is not cool
[02:35] <twb> Feadin: if it's not a bug, the maintainer will just close the ticket with "not a bug"
[02:36] <ntoombs_> where would i find dhcp reservations?
[02:36] <Feadin> It depends on them
[02:36] <twb> Feadin: IIRC language-pack-en shouldn't be installed, only -base
[02:36] <twb> Feadin: IIRC the preseeds on optical media installers are supposed to be set up to behave this way
[02:36] <ntoombs_> qman__: would it work if i simply turned off dhcp?
[02:37] <qman__> ntoombs_, that's a good question, it would have to be something like "reservation" or "static IP" or some other "computer settings"
[02:37] <ntoombs_> like this forum post says how to do. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22286649-How-do-I-turn-off-DHCP-on-2Wire-2701HGG
[02:38] <Feadin> I installed these servers a couple of weeks ago selectiong only "OpenSSH" and leaving everything else on default, after that just added mysql-server and that's about it
[02:38] <qman__> that might work, but be prepared to reset it if it doesn't
[02:39] <twb> Feadin: yes, I get it too, but I don't get a preseed file
[02:39] <qman__> was the router provided by your ISP?
[02:39] <ntoombs_> yes
[02:39] <twb> Feadin: I just manually uninstall those packages
[02:39] <qman__> sometimes they hack them up
[02:39] <ntoombs_> upon a $100 fee
[02:39] <qman__> breaking basic functionality like this
[02:40] <qman__> I need to go for a few minutes, I'll be back soon
[02:40] <ntoombs_> ok
[02:40] <Feadin> Anyone has a default 11.04 server installation to try and do an "apt-get update && apt-get -s upgrade"?
[02:41] <Feadin> just want to be sure this is actually a bug and not my mistake
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> Hey guys, I have a VPS running and I did an update of MySQL. I bumped into this error now everytime the system starts I cannot get MySQL - ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> if I type... sudo /etc/init.d/mysql start
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> I can get it running again. But that's not much of an option since I need this to be stable and working 24/7
[03:00] <Gaming4JC> I tried purge/reinstall of mysql, error persists.
[03:00] <Gaming4JC> ideas? :(
[03:00] <Jasonn> Gaming4JC: I can get you a vds real quick if you are looking for that
[03:01] <Gaming4JC> Jasonn: hmm?
[03:01] <Jasonn> check PM
[04:51] <ntoombs> qman__: you there?
[06:14] <josePhoenix> Hi all
[06:14] <josePhoenix> I seem to have broken my server :D
[06:14] <josePhoenix> This is a great development in my evening
[06:15] <josePhoenix> Can I display the grub config from a grub prompt?
[06:17] <josePhoenix> I just ran a normal dist upgrade and it rebooted and then I got "error no such device"
[06:22] <lifeless> twb: is that template you hav esomething you're going to put fforward as a patch ?
[06:22] <lifeless> twb: it seems to be structured rather differnetly :)
[06:24] <josePhoenix> But really. What's my first thing to try when I'm at a grub prompt?
[06:27] <twb> enter?
[06:28] <lifeless> twb: is that template you hav esomething you're going to put fforward as a patch ?
[06:28] <lifeless> twb: it seems to be structured rather differnetly :)
[06:29] <josePhoenix> twb: well, it does go to a new line.. doesn't do much else
[06:29] <twb> lifeless: it's in-house shite
[06:29] <twb> lifeless: I'm happy to publish it but it's not exactly merge-ready
[06:30] <lifeless> yeah
[06:31] <lifeless> I think I have a minimal (fugly) patch to do i386, I'm just testing now
[06:33] <josePhoenix> Is there any way to list drives or see the grub configuration from the grub> prompt?
[06:33] <josePhoenix> or am I better off using a livecd and trying from there
[06:33] <lifeless> for drives just tab complete
[06:33] <lifeless> (TAB
[06:34] <josePhoenix> Doesn't seem to show anything
[06:34] <lifeless> thats unusual :)
[06:34] <josePhoenix> the worst thing to hear :P
[06:35] <josePhoenix> Well the error message is something like "unknown device" but from googling I've seen this mentioned in conjunction with LVM and with unused floppy drives being enabled
[06:36] <twb> josePhoenix: depending on the bash, you will have tab completion
[06:36] <twb> josePhoenix: (hd<TAB>, (hd0)/<TAB> etc
[06:36] <twb> hd0 = sda, hd0,1 = sda1
[06:37] <twb> Oh, except I think in grub2 the numbering is from 0 for partitions as well :-/
[06:37] <josePhoenix> ay de mi....
[06:37] <twb> Note the parens around (hd0,1) are important
[06:37] <twb> If this is all too hard, just get a live CD and fix it that way
[06:37] <josePhoenix> hmm partition 0,1, ext2; partition 0,5: unknown filesystem
[06:38] <josePhoenix> But if the kernel + initrd was installed to a /boot partition it shouldn't have trouble reading it
[06:38] <twb> the latter might be swap
[06:38] <twb> Certainly it SHOULDN'T have trouble :-(
[06:40] <josePhoenix> The only thing that didn't go perfectly smoothly in this upgrade was that at one point the screen went blank and I hit enter to get it back without thinking
[06:40] <josePhoenix> and it chose N on the 'reboot now?' prompt and I had to start over
[06:40] <josePhoenix> but I thought ubuntu was too polished for that to fuck things up...
[06:44] <lifeless> so if its just got an old config
[06:44] <lifeless> subtracting 1 from the entries it was trying to boot with
[06:44] <lifeless> should make it all happy
[06:46] <josePhoenix> Could you elaborate on what that means?
[06:46] <lifeless> well
[06:47] <lifeless> your config should be present by default
[06:47] <lifeless> you can edit it in the grub prompt, or manually issue the commans
[06:48] <lifeless> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Command Line and Rescue Mode
[06:48] <lifeless> explore the fs's using tab complete to find the right partitions and then boot by hand
[06:49] <lifeless> if the stage2 loader couldn't be found thats more of a problem
[06:49] <lifeless> how far through is it getting ?
[06:50] <josePhoenix> It drops me at a grub> prompt after saying "unknown device"
[06:50] <josePhoenix> though that message only flashes on screen for an instant
[06:50] <josePhoenix> hmm does the grub prompt include a pager? I can't see the beginning of this config file -.-
[06:53] <lifeless> hah
[06:53] <lifeless> root@lucid-test-lp:~# arch
[06:53] <lifeless> x86_64
[06:53] <lifeless> root@lucid-test-lp:~# dpkg --print-architecture
[06:53] <lifeless> i386
[06:56] <josePhoenix> Man, I used to know all of this back when I used Gentoo.
[06:56] <airtonix> is it possible to provide an option in ~/.ssh/config to limit-rate (the scp has an argument -l that takes Kbits/s)
[07:12] <josePhoenix> Anyone know if ubuntu wants initargs?
[07:12] <josePhoenix> er
[07:12] <josePhoenix> init= bootarg?
[07:14] <josePhoenix> Is there a pager in the initrd shell?
[07:14] <twb> init=foo is not necessary by default
[07:14] <josePhoenix> Or any way I can see the top half of this file that scrolls offscreen?
[07:15] <twb> The busybox program provides a bunch of applets; which ones depends on how the team are feeling that week.
[07:15] <twb> Debian's busybox includes more (or less?) nowadays, but I think Ubuntu's is a 100kB smaller and containers less stuff :-(
[07:15] <josePhoenix> :[
[07:15] <josePhoenix> more doesn't work and less is missing
[07:16] <twb> josePhoenix: if all else fails, you have to write to a file then use head and tail to get the page you want
[07:16] <twb> josePhoenix: I've seen that problem with more not working before, I think it's because the emergency environment's terminal capabilities are buggered – I never solved it myself
[07:16] <twb> re head/tail – or grep, sed, etc., of course
[07:18] <josePhoenix> okay, here is what I have figured out so far... I have a /boot at (hd0,1) that contains no vmlinuz/initrd.img but it does have vmlinuz-2.6.38-8-server + corresponding initrd
[07:18] <twb> The symlinks are in root, not boot, by default
[07:19] <josePhoenix> ah good to know
[07:19] <josePhoenix> there is also a partition at (hd0,5) which grub says is an 'unknown filesystem' but must be an LVM group because I know there's supposed to be a swap partition on here
[07:19] <josePhoenix> and there are only two primary partitions
[07:19] <josePhoenix> I think the problem is that I need to guess root= based on the startup output from the initrd stage
[07:21] <josePhoenix> or not
[07:21] <josePhoenix> I'm not sure how grub and kernel lines and LVM work
[07:25] <josePhoenix> well that's interesting.
[07:31] <josePhoenix> YAY IT BOOTED
[07:37] <keyboardtalk> I need some help enabling php5 on apache2. php code is not being parsed by the server
[07:37] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: did you install libapache2-mod-php5 ?
[07:37] <keyboardtalk> yes
[07:42] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: did you then run 'sudo a2enmod php5' ?
[07:43] <twb> SpamapS: doesn't it do that implicitly in the postisnt
[07:44] <slyboots_> twb: Ah it should
[07:44] <keyboardtalk> SpamapS: yes
[07:46] <SpamapS> twb: not sure
[07:46] <SpamapS> would make sense
[07:49] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: at this point you probably need to add a config file that adds the PHP handler
[07:49] <SpamapS> Would have hoped that happened automatically too but I guess not
[07:50] <twb> It *is* automatic provided he follows the conventions that the automatic scripts expect
[07:50] <twb> e.g. the mod_fcgi package sets up fast CGI only for *.fcgi files
[07:51] <SpamapS> been a while since I dropped it on a bare machine and tried it out. :-P
[07:54] <keyboardtalk>  SpamapS: okay php seems to be working in /var/www, but not in other directories, namely /home/<user>/public_html/
[07:55] <keyboardtalk> do php directories & files need certain permissions to work?
[07:58] <jmarsden> keyboardtalk: Read /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf and note the deliberate turning off of PHP in user directories there, as a security precaution...
[07:58] <jmarsden> keyboardtalk: You can edit it if you want PHP in userdirs.
[07:58] <twb> I have a host running mod-php5, but I've locked it down as much as I could so it won't reflect the defaults
[07:59] <jmarsden> Or I think you could override it in .htaccess on a per-user basis
[07:59] <twb> jmarsden: assuming you leave .htaccess turned on :-)
[07:59] <jmarsden> Yes :)
[07:59] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: if you want to run per-user php.. you'll want to look into something to keep them from attacking eachother. :)
[07:59] <luite> mod-php5 isn't terribly suitable for servers with multiple users anyway
[08:00]  * twb waves the "static HTML or GTFO" banner
[08:00] <SpamapS> chrooted fastcgi .. lxc containers.. whole vms.. just don't turn on mod_php for user dirs
[08:00] <keyboardtalk> Okay, thank you very much
[08:00] <twb> I hate fastcgi
[08:00] <twb> I'd rather just have an app server daemon speak HTTP to the reverse proxy "real" web server
[08:01] <luite> hmm, fastcgi has been working fine for me (for php), but it does eat a lot of memory
[08:01] <greppy> I've been liking fcgi and/or suphp for a while :)
[08:02] <luite> hehe I can't really say that I like it, but it works (mod-fcgid, suexec and fastcgi)
[08:02] <twb> luite: are you running an httpd on the same host, or are you running fastcgi over a trusted network?
[08:02] <luite> same host
[08:03] <twb> Yeah see I do that but I don't like it
 – <varnish> – <apache> – <fcgi app>
[08:03] <twb> I would prefer <user> – <varnish> – <http app>
[08:03] <keyboardtalk> Out of curiosity, what is the risk with enabling php for all users?
[08:03] <twb> keyboardtalk: that they'll use php
[08:04] <luite> keyboardtalk: all php scripts run under the same user id, so users can read each others php files
[08:04] <luite> keyboardtalk: (that's for mod-php for all users)
[08:05] <keyboardtalk> okay, good to know
[08:05] <SpamapS> twb: you can do that, just run your http app w/ mod_php ..why not?
[08:05] <twb> SpamapS: my app is written in C, not PHP
[08:05] <twb> At least this time it is
[08:05] <SpamapS> twb: In that case, libevent FTW
[08:06] <twb> SpamapS: how would that work?  I am talking to upstream about it this week
[08:06] <SpamapS> full http server code built in.. :)
[08:06] <twb> I've only ever seen libevent used in rxvt
[08:06] <luite> twb: I like it that apache tries to automatically starts the fastcgi apps, fewer things to watch :) , but I use apache reverse proxy for my non-php web apps
[08:06] <luite> (written in haskell)
[08:07] <SpamapS> twb: recent versions of libevent have evhttp.h ...
[08:07] <SpamapS> http://monkey.org/~provos/libevent/doxygen-1.4.3/
[08:07] <twb> luite: yeah, I am actually using apache not varnish, but that devalues my argument a little :-)
[08:07] <twb> SpamapS: neat
[08:07] <SpamapS> twb: you just register a callback per URI, and a default callback for dynamic URI's
[08:08] <twb> SpamapS: can I quote you (i.e. mail the scrollback to their list)?
[08:08] <twb> It'll save me paraphrasing
[08:08] <SpamapS> twb: sure, I'm just quoting from the docs
[08:09] <SpamapS> I played around with it a few months ago.. VERY easy to write an HTTP server
[08:13] <twb> I suppose it would be ironic if he switched to libevent and I couldn't get a new enough version into lucid
[08:14] <SpamapS> lucid is new enough
[08:14] <twb> Cool
[08:14]  * SpamapS shudders, recalling using CentOS 5's 4 year old libevent
[08:14] <SpamapS> which is now.. 7 years old I think
[08:15] <twb> That's odd... urxvt appears to not use libevent in sid, but I thought it did
[08:16] <SpamapS> weird that a gui terminal would use it
[08:16] <SpamapS> I guess it makes sense.. but seems a bit heavy
[08:18] <twb> Ah, here http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html
[08:18] <twb> "A full-featured and high-performance (see benchmark) event loop that is loosely modelled after libevent, but without its limitations and bugs."
[08:18] <twb> Nice and objective there schmorp :-)
[08:21] <luite> the same lib that's used by the framework that I'm using :) ( http://snapframework.com/ )
[08:21] <twb> luite: which, ev or event?
[08:21] <luite> ev
[08:21] <alex_21> Hi all,
[08:22] <alex_21> I am tring to clean everything off my server.
[08:22] <alex_21> I want to return to a minimal installation. Is there any command to do this?
[08:23] <twb> alex_21: markauto most/all packages that are not Section: metapackages
[08:23] <twb> This is not a perfect rollback, tho
[08:24] <alex_21> I want to completely reinstall everything, config and all without reinstalling Ubunut.
[08:24] <twb> You can't have that
[08:24] <twb> You can make it re-ask you most configuration options with "dpkg-reconfigure --all", but this is not the same.
[08:25] <twb> Nor it "aptitude reinstall ?installed"
[08:25] <twb> Feel free to try them anyway, once you have working backups.  I think it'll be easier to do a full reinstall.
[08:28] <SpamapS> alex_21: for the future, this is why configuration management helps.. :)
[08:29] <alex_21> How can I reconfigure ldap.
[08:29] <alex_21> ?
[08:40] <twb> Oh ldap
[08:40] <twb> you are totally fucked
[08:40] <twb> ldap HATES changes
[08:40] <twb> Especially if you're still using FDS or that other one.  OpenLDAP is a little better
[08:51] <alex_21> Allright guys. Thanks for the help. Reinstalling it is.
[08:51] <alex_21> Good night.
[08:58] <nickmoeck> Is there a reputable PPA with mysql 5.5 packages for lucid?
[09:06] <soren> nickmoeck: I *seriously* doubt it. It's not even in Debian experimental or Ubuntu Oneiric yet.
[09:07] <twb> Packaging mysql isn't exactly trivial
[09:11] <nickmoeck> You're kidding, right? MySQL 5.5 was released in December! How are there no packages for it yet?
[09:11] <nickmoeck> surely it doesn't take more than 6 months to package
[09:14] <twb> nickmoeck: well, are you helping?
[09:16] <nickmoeck> twb: obviously not, I don't really know much about packaging. But I would think for something as important as mysql, packages for the latest version would be made within 6 months of the release
[09:18] <twb> Well, *I'm* not helping because the sooner mysql dies the sooner people will switch to sqlite and postgres, which are IMO infinitely better suited to toy and production usage respectively
[09:19] <twb> You can make a shit package in an afternoon, but getting it release-quality is difficult, especially since, as you say, so much gank relies on mysql and thus so many people will complain if you screw it up.
[09:19] <twb> Or it could just be that the guy responsible for packaging mysql for Ubuntu has gotten a job or a girlfriend in the last six months...
[09:19] <lifeless> twb: I've put up a patch for doing i386 lxc's
[09:20] <twb> lifeless: hmm?
[09:20] <lifeless> twb: would be interesting to know if it would suit your needs
[09:20] <lifeless> twb: bug 798476
[09:21] <larsemil> old computer running md0 with lvm crashed. no i want to mount it on new hardware. It can find all volumegroups and logical volumes but it does not put them to /dev so that i can mount it. How do i import it? i am afraid vgimport does not work as it was not exported before old computer died.
[09:22] <twb> larsemil: lvm2 vgscan -ay?
[09:22] <twb> larsemil: something like that; last time I did it I RTFS'd the ramdisk to work out the details
[09:24] <larsemil> it finds it allright, but it does not make it mountable...
[09:25] <larsemil> twb: vgchange -ay was the solution
[09:25] <twb> good-o
[09:26] <larsemil> thanks for pointing me in the -ay direction!
[09:26] <twb> -ay means "bloody well do it" in LVM
[09:56] <phretor> any idea of why this error is occurring? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/416826/ "Exception during pm.DoInstall():  E:Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on util-linux" or how to solve it?
[11:05] <sarit> !paste | sarit
[11:37] <m3asmi> (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address <IP_ADDRESS>:80 !!
[12:01] <cloakable> m3asmi: There's something listening on port 80. Are you running a httpd already?
[12:02] <m3asmi> cloakble : I fix that problem
[12:03] <m3asmi> I ask about the :   The requested URL /www was not found on this server.
[13:54] <sommer> morning all
[15:23] <hallyn> oh man, ppa build started yesterday morning still hasn't started
[15:30] <ScottK> Heya sommer.
[15:34] <^^rcaskey> I've got an old server i'd like to get onoboard with automatic security updates. Just dist-upgraded to lucid, is there just a package i need to add or reconfigure?
[15:42] <zul> hallyn: around?
[15:43] <hallyn> zul: yeah, what's up?
[15:43] <zul> hallyn: we said we can drop the 9022-allows-lxc-containers-with-lxcguest.patch right?
[15:44] <hallyn> zul: are you doing 0.9.2?
[15:45] <zul> hallyn: yeah if we dont it needs to be rediffed
[15:45] <hallyn> you're pulling from sid, or upstream?
[15:45] <zul> sid
[15:46] <hallyn> zul: fetching.  But in any case, so long as it has the patch from upstream adding the LXC_UUID, then yes
[15:46] <zul> hallyn: ok ill drop it then
[15:46] <hallyn> though, hm
[15:46] <hallyn> zul: we'll have to make sure then that the lxcguest package for natty has the LIBVIRT_LXC_UUID fix
[15:47] <zul> you mean for oneiric
[15:48] <hallyn> zul: no
[15:48] <hallyn> zul: lxcguest runs in the guest, so natty guests on oneiric hosts will need to do the right thing
[15:49] <zul> hallyn: oh right
[15:49] <hallyn> zul: can you take care of SRU'ing that?  (i'ts not in natty, just checked)
[15:49] <zul> hallyn: yeah i can probably do that
[15:49] <hallyn> zul: cool, thanks.  Should just be able to cp debian/*.upstart from the oneiric version
[15:49] <hallyn> i'm getting my ass kicked by the lxc template stuff (trying to consolidate the templates into one)
[15:51] <zul> hallyn: heh sucks to be you when is a new version of lxc suppose to be out
[15:51] <hallyn> whenever dlezcano feels there's a new feature
[15:59] <hallyn> zul: heh, found my biggest problem - missing ':' after option in getopt.  doh
[15:59] <hallyn> new template is gonna rock
[15:59] <zul> hallyn: doh!
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: when are we looking into having cobbler in main?
[16:02] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ^^
[16:02] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: We'll check on it start of next week i think
[16:02] <Monotoko> hey guys...I'm following this tutorial: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/postfix.html and when I try to connect I get kicked out by this: http://pastebin.com/WQ3e99Dq, what should be at "private/auth-client"?
[16:03] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: personally, i have no strong need for cobbler to be in main
[16:03] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: but i think Daviey and your team will probably need it so
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ok cool!
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: thought orchestra was gonna have to be in Main by this cycle
[16:05] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: that's up to you guys
[16:05] <Monotoko> :(
[16:05] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland:  ok ;)
[16:22] <lynxman> ping Daviey
[16:23] <w00> Isn't that cute.. install munin wants to also put x11-common on my system ;/
[16:24] <Doonz> has anyone set up openvpn server in ubuntu 10.04
[16:26] <Riz> Doonz: yup
[16:32] <SpamapS> lynxman: generally nick: ping is more reliable.. some people (like me) don't have their name highlighted in all instances.. just when its the first word
[16:32] <SpamapS> Doonz: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openvpn.html
[16:33] <lynxman> SpamapS: will have that in mind, he normally replies though :)
[16:36] <Doonz> 1 sec damn work is getting in the way
[16:42] <medberry> SpamapS, ah, I've never heard of that setting/behavior. Probably comes in handy if you have a ubiquitous nick.
[16:42] <SpamapS> medberry: its the default in irssi
[16:47] <pmatulis> can one install a kvm guest running the devel release with vmbuilder?
[16:57] <Doonz> SpamapS: ive tried that guide a few times and it didnt work
[16:57] <Doonz> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/network-configuration.html#bridging Ive tried following that guide but it wont bring up the bridged connection
[16:58] <ScottK> Doonz: Please file a bug with details against the ubuntu-docs project.
[16:58] <Doonz> its not a bug. just a stupid user trying to do something he doesnt know anything about
[16:58] <Doonz> :(
[16:59] <Doonz> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openvpn.html <-- im going to retry this guide and ill pastebin the errors
[17:04] <SpamapS> pmatulis: should be doable
[17:05] <pmatulis> SpamapS: do you know how?  i mean, is it done with hacking?
[17:05] <pmatulis> SpamapS: b/c suite=oneiric doesn't work if host is natty
[17:06] <Daviey> lynxman: sorry, was otp
[17:06] <SpamapS> pmatulis: not sure. I just use iso's + virt-manager.  If I terminate an instance, any configuration made is lost. How can one get round this problem?
[18:19] <lynxman> RoAkSoAx: ping
[18:22] <RoAkSoAx> lynxman: pong
[18:22] <fowlduck> We have an Intel Xeon E5645 and we're not seeing the 2 threads per core in lscpu, cat /proc/cpuinfo, etc, despite the processor being capable of hyperthreading. Is there a way to determine what features are supported by the kernel? I'd like to check if hyperthreading is enabled
[18:22] <fowlduck> btw, `uname -a` # => Linux 358015-domain 2.6.38-8-server #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:49:04 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:25] <fowlduck> we're using a bare-metal host and we're trying to prove that the issue isn't with the OS (or fixing it if it is), so I can't exactly check the BIOS or anything
[18:34] <amero> i have a question about socks proxy server. for a socks server to be able to accept and forward incoming connections back to clients behind the proxy, what does it need to have?
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: if the CPU can do it, it should be in the flags in /proc/cpuinfo
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: it may still be disabled in the BIOS
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: I'd say 90% of workloads see no real benefit to HT
[18:44] <fowlduck> SpamapS: thanks for getting back to me, I got some help from the guys in #ubuntu-kernel on the problem
[18:45] <fowlduck> You're right, too. It seems to be disabled in the BIOS
[18:45] <fowlduck> despite the minimal performance improvements, we'd like to get the potential benefits if its available
[19:13] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: should postinst/postrm scripts call "service XYW restart" or similar? or should that be done with invoke.rc-d
[19:13] <RoAkSoAx> invoke-rc.d*
[19:13] <SpamapS> invoke-rc.d is the *only* way allowed
[19:14] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: that's what I thought! Thanks
[19:17] <rump> does rsyslogd miss anything besides apache on a default install?
[19:24] <pmatulis> i didn't know apache was part of the default install
[19:31] <RoyK> pmatulis: it isn't
[19:32] <pmatulis> RoyK: rump is mixed up
[19:51] <vooze> i just switched from debian til ubuntu-server (or trying to) but for some reason, the ubuntu 11.04 server CD cant see my main harddrive.. debian can just fine.. any ideas?
[19:57] <RoyK> vooze: sound strange - but just a thought - if you plan to setup a server, why don't you use an LTS release such as 10.04?
[19:57] <RoyK> 11.04 will only be supported for 18 months
[19:57] <RoyK> LTS server releases are supported for a full 5 years from release
[19:58] <Alfafa> Hi I haven't followed this channel. But you are aware that a aptitude full-upgrade today will pull in a lot of irrelevant packages? like firefox,synaptic etc..gui programs?
[19:59] <Alfafa> I also found a forum post from one experiencing the same http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1788159
[19:59] <RoyK> Alfafa: sometimes dependencies change - but really - if you don't have any graphical stuff installed, an apt-get dist-upgrade (I guess that's like aptitude full-upgrade) really shouldn't add much new
[19:59] <RoyK> Alfafa: which version?
[19:59] <Alfafa> It is 11.04
[20:00] <RoyK> 11.04 has a few dependency issues - I know
[20:00] <Alfafa> apt-get dist-upgrade does the same..pulling in gui stuff
[20:00]  * RoyK sticks to LTS releases for servers
[20:00] <Alfafa> Ok..I would just make sure someone knew :-)
[20:00] <vooze> RoyK: yeah, trying that now.. burning atm.
[20:00] <ScottK> Alfafa: No.  No it doesn't.  You added something.
[20:00] <RoyK> Alfafa: report a bug
[20:01] <ScottK> I've upgraded servers from 10.10 to 11.04 just fine.
[20:01] <RoyK> ScottK: the dependencies in 11.04 are rather patchy
[20:01]  * w00 same
[20:01] <ScottK> RoyK: Point to bugs please.
[20:01] <RoyK> I've just been testing on a test VM, and had lots of wierd issues
[20:01] <Alfafa> I didn't add something I ran a perfectly normal aptitude full-upgrade yesterday and today the same pull in a lot of gui packages not needed
[20:01] <ScottK> Alfafa: What does apt-get upgrade do?
[20:02] <RoyK> ScottK: so I just ditched the VM and let it go
[20:02] <ScottK> OK.
[20:02] <Alfafa> apt-get upgrade should work much better
[20:02] <Alfafa> but you wouldn't get kernel updates i believe by using that
[20:02] <RoyK> ScottK: upgrade to the latest version of packages within the distro version (say, 10.04.1), but it won't upgrade to 10.04.2 - dist-upgrade would
[20:02] <ScottK> Alfafa: OK.  How about apt-get dist-upgrade?
[20:03] <ScottK> RoyK: No.  That's wrong.
[20:03] <RoyK> sure?
[20:03] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:03] <ScottK> 10.04.2 is nothing more than all the updates released for 10.04 on a certain date.
[20:03] <RoyK> hm.. I thought it was a new subversion, slightly newer packages etc
[20:03] <ScottK> The difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that dist-upgrade will add/remove packages if needed and upgrade won't.
[20:03] <RoyK> never mind
[20:04] <ScottK> Generally in stable releases that just comes up with kernels that break ABI and need new package names.
[20:04] <RoyK> what's ABI?
[20:05] <ScottK> Application Binary Interface.
[20:05] <RoyK> k
[20:05] <ScottK> If the binary interface changes there are packages that need to be rebuilt against the newer ABI so they change the package name.
[20:05] <RoyK> I'm running 2.6.35 on my Lucid servers atm - haven't seen any issues there
[20:05] <ScottK> That means a kernel upgrade (if it breaks ABI) needs dist-upgrade.
[20:05] <RoyK> ah - IC
[20:05] <RoyK> thanks for the info
[20:06] <RoyK> I generally only use dist-upgrade, though
[20:06] <RoyK> guess that should be safe, then
[20:06] <Alfafa> I think it may be a new upgradedable package today which have a rather weird recommends. I can look at the packages it will upgrade to see which one of them pulls in the 57 new(mostly gui packages) packages
[20:06] <ScottK> Lucid was released with <IP_ADDRESS>.22 and has <IP_ADDRESS>.38 now.
[20:06] <ScottK> Every time the 4th number changes it's an ABI break and there's new binary packages.
[20:07] <RoyK> ScottK: there's a maverick backport of 2.6.35-25 in the repos
[20:07] <RoyK> ScottK: and that's recommended because of some bugs not fixable in 2.6.32
[20:07] <RoyK> (last I checked)
[20:07] <ScottK> It's got a completely different set of package names.
[20:07] <RoyK> dist-upgrade won't pull it, though, you'll have to apt-get install it
[20:07] <ScottK> I think it's recommended only if you're having issues with the normal one.
[20:08] <ScottK> My LTS servers are running the regular 2.6.32 with no problems.  YMMV.
[20:08] <RoyK> well, I just updated my boxes - all 20-odd servers are running 2.6.35 now without issues
[20:10] <Alfafa> ok..i think the bug is the recommends for language-pack-en-base which recommends firefox-locale-en which then depends on firefox maybe? but I am not sure..i believe aptitude full-upgrade sometimes install the recommended packages which apt-get upgrade doesn't?
[20:11] <ScottK> Perhaps.
[20:11] <ScottK> Let me look into it.
[20:11] <RoyK> vooze: any luck?
[20:13] <ScottK> Alfafa: I don't think that's part of the standard server install.
[20:15] <Alfafa> ScottK: Hmm..ok I will look into why it is there then
[20:22] <Alfafa> apt-get -s install apt-rdepends
[20:22] <Alfafa> sorry
[20:26] <lifeless> hallyn: SpamapS: thanks for your aid - this is what I have now - https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview
[20:29] <Alfafa> ScottK: Ok. Couldn't find any reasonable rdepends...so removed the language-pack* maybe it has been put in some time earlier (it has been upgraded to 11.04 and not reinstalled)
[20:30] <Alfafa> ScottK: Sorry for wasting your time
[20:30] <ScottK> No problem.
[20:30] <ScottK> Sometimes this is how you find out.
[20:30] <Alfafa> ScottK: I will just answer the other ones forum post..then somebody else can find it ;-)
[20:42] <RoyK> anyone around that knows a good L2 network discovery tool?
[21:11] <lifeless> SpamapS: hallyn: next fail point - fuse fails to install in the lxc
[21:13] <Daviey> lifeless: wow, that is a suprise.. fails to dpkg unpack/configure?
[21:13] <lifeless> Setting up fuse-utils (2.8.1-1.1ubuntu2) ...
[21:13] <lifeless> creating fuse group...
[21:13] <lifeless> mknod: `fuse-': Operation not permitted
[21:13] <lifeless> makedev fuse c 10 229 root root 0660: failed
[21:13] <lifeless> chgrp: cannot access `/dev/fuse': No such file or directory
[21:14] <SpamapS> lifeless: yeah you have to mknod outside of lxc IIRC
[21:14] <lifeless> SpamapS: where should I file the bug ?
[21:15] <SpamapS> hallyn: ^^ ?
[21:15] <lifeless> devpts fs doesn't help
[21:17] <lifeless> http://jtrancas.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/fuse-filesystems-lxc-container/ perhaps
[21:19] <Daviey> lifeless: looks like an lxc issue then... with the template.
[21:21] <lifeless> adding that stuff to the config seems to be enough
[21:23] <lifeless> bug 800886
[21:23] <RoyK> bug 1
[21:23] <Daviey> timeout \o/
[21:23] <RoyK> hm...
[21:23] <Daviey> i'm wrong!
[21:24] <Daviey> thanks lifeless
[21:25] <RoyK> this pool is FAST http://paste.ubuntu.com/630972/ :D
[21:26] <hallyn> lifeless: SpamapS: no bug.  edit the container's config (/var/lib/lxc/<container>/config) and add a devices whitelist eception for /dev/fuse
[21:27] <Daviey> hallyn: can we not ship that?
[21:27] <hallyn> Daviey: we shouldn't.
[21:27] <Daviey> hallyn: oh?
[21:27] <lifeless> hallyn: why not ?
[21:27] <hallyn> bc we pretend containers aren't 100% unsafe as is :)
[21:27] <lifeless> hallyn: could we ship an option
[21:28] <lifeless> hallyn: so folk don't go off of random internet sites like I just did.
[21:28] <hallyn> lifeless: right, just add the option to the config
[21:28] <hallyn> lifeless: no problem, the lp bug shoudl steer people :)
[21:28] <hallyn> where is that link you pasted before
[21:29] <lifeless>  http://jtrancas.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/fuse-filesystems-lxc-container/
[21:29] <hallyn> ah there it is
[21:29] <lifeless> seems to be for udev
[21:29] <lifeless> so perhaps not relevant to lucid
[21:29] <hallyn> lifeless: thx :)
[21:29] <Daviey> hallyn: I wonder if handling the fuse failure could be better handled in the fuse package giving reasoning for failure, and suggesting uncommenting it on the config?
[21:29] <Daviey> (ship it commented out?)
[21:29] <hallyn> Daviey: could be
[21:30] <lifeless> whats the security issue with this?
[21:30] <hallyn> presumably it allows the conatiner to load arbitrary fuse filesystems?  and abuse any holes which might exist in the /dev/fuse api
[21:31] <hallyn> security issue is just 'a big blog tying into the kernel'
[21:31] <lifeless> but fs's are contained
[21:31] <hallyn> maybe i'm being unreasonably, i dunno
[21:31] <lifeless> if fuse is unsafe
[21:31] <hallyn> contained by what?
[21:31] <lifeless> I thought they were namespaced ?
[21:32] <hallyn> that's not the angle i'm worried about,
[21:32] <hallyn> it's that the kernel is calling out to functions in userspace,
[21:32] <hallyn> and the container is writing those functions
[21:32] <Daviey> I love the fact that fuse is a userspace implementation for filesystems... and yet, we are still blocked on the kernel module :)
[21:32] <lifeless> right...
[21:32] <lifeless> but that doesn't seem intrinsically insecure
[21:32] <hallyn> it's intrinsically fragile
[21:32] <lifeless> as long as the kernel doesn't trust the userspace implementation blindly
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: it's the same reason why we want to sandbox containers so that any fo the 100 newest syscalls can't be used :)
[21:33]  * lifeless would like to not need fuse, but is installing gnome inside the lxc container :(
[21:33] <Daviey> lifeless: you sir, are a crazy man.
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: well again, containers aren't secure to begin with,
[21:33] <lifeless> Daviey: windmill tests
[21:33] <lifeless> Daviey: for LP
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: so i don't want to make it too hard.  But is adding that entry to the config too much?
[21:33] <Daviey> lifeless: interesting!
[21:34] <lifeless> Daviey: https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC
[21:34] <Daviey> hallyn: it seems a discoverability issue
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: well, the less it Just Works
[21:34] <hallyn> ypu
[21:34] <hallyn> yup
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: the harder it is to use.
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: so I accept that if there is an issue, we shouldn't do it.
[21:34] <hallyn> Daviey: so being a discoverability issue, i'd lean toward fiing it in fuse-utils
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: but I'd rather concrete 'we need to do X to fix it' objections rather than 'it might break'.
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: the issue will become more meaningful when we have user namespaces.  I just don't want toopen all the doors in the meantime so that then user namespaces will be worthless
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: wearing my obstinate user hat rather firmly.
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: anyhow - that wiki page I just linked documents doing the home bindmount
[21:35] <Daviey> lifeless: So are you thinking of doing this to integrate with the tarmac pre land testing?
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: the one bit I'm missing is user mirroring
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: maybe we should as on #ubuntu-hardened how safe they feel with /dev/fuse API.  I know little
[21:35] <lifeless> Daviey: we don't use tarmac :) - and no.
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: you can use the lxc-ubuntu template I linked to in the bug
[21:36] <lifeless> Daviey: doing it to have less memory footprint than the lucid VM I currently use.
[21:36] <hallyn> lifeless: let me post some debs actually to people.canonical.com, one sec
[21:36] <Daviey> lifeless: oh right
[21:37] <hallyn> lifeless: http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu7.1clone3_amd64.deb
[21:38] <hallyn> lifeless: with that deb, you can do 'lxc-create -t natty -n natty -f /etc/lxc.conf -- -b lifeless
[21:38] <hallyn> and user lifeless will be bind-mounted and created in the container
[21:38] <lifeless> wicked
[21:38] <hallyn> it also supports '-a i386'
[21:38] <lifeless> nice
[21:38] <lifeless> that will be in oneiric?
[21:38] <hallyn> yeah, unless it hits resistence upstream (unlikely for this)
[21:39] <hallyn> lifeless: actually yo uneed to add '-r natty', as the default container is lucid
[21:40] <lifeless> hallyn: well, I want lucid :)
[21:40] <hallyn> lifeless: excellent :)
[21:40] <lifeless> hallyn: launchpad.net deploys on lucid
[21:40] <hallyn> lifeless: then until lp gets aroudn to compiling the ubuntu-virt ppa's lxc, you'll need to add '-x' to trim the container (as it can't install the lxcguest package)
[21:41] <lifeless> lxcguest ?
[21:41] <hallyn> oh yay, it built
[21:41] <Daviey> hallyn: Hmm, i don't think lifeless wants to deploy in lxc... just devel
[21:41] <hallyn> lifeless: yes, lxcguest works around some blotches where upstart can't deal with not beign on hardwrae
[21:41] <hallyn> Daviey: so?
[21:41] <lifeless> hallyn: so I should install that in my lucid guest ?
[21:42] <lifeless> $ apt-cache show lxcguest
[21:42] <lifeless> W: Unable to locate package lxcguest
[21:42] <lifeless> E: No packages found
[21:42] <hallyn> lifeless: only if you want it to be safe across udev upgrades
[21:42] <hallyn> right, it comes from ppa:ubuntu-virt/ppa.  It's in natty and oneiric, but not lucid and maverick
[21:42] <lifeless> hallyn: is it needed for lucid?
[21:42] <Daviey> hallyn: Ahh.. i missunderstood "then until lp gets aroudn to compiling the ubuntu-virt ppa's lxc
[21:42] <hallyn> not if you create a trimmed container (which the lxc-lucid template did, and which the new template does if you add -x)
[21:43] <hallyn> Daviey: oh yeah, it just took over 24 hrs for it to get around to it
[21:43] <hallyn> lifeless: are these 'run and delete' contaienrs?
[21:43] <lifeless> hardware testing have solten all the builders
[21:43] <lifeless> hallyn: nope
[21:43] <hallyn> you're going to keep themaround and upgrade?
[21:43] <lifeless> hallyn: we install a GB of dependencies
[21:43] <lifeless> so i doubt folk will treat them as transient things
[21:43] <hallyn> then yeah, use lxcguest
[21:44] <Daviey> hallyn: You know, having someone on the launchpad team that wants to use a package from a PPA oddly increases it's build time :)
[21:44] <lifeless> let me know when its available for lucid?
[21:44] <hallyn> it does things like bind-mount an empty fiel over /lib/init/fstab, so that if mountall/udev gets updated it still boots
[21:44] <Daviey> (err, decreases)
[21:44] <hallyn> lifeless: it's available now in the ubuntu-virt ppa
[21:44] <hallyn> lifeless: it must have just compiled
[21:45] <hallyn> lifeless: I assume there is no way to add that package into the official lucid  archive at this late date
[21:45] <lifeless> hallyn: sure you can, its not trivial but it is doable
[21:45] <lifeless> lxcguest wants to futz with /etc/init/console.conf
[21:46] <hallyn> lifeless: that file only exists bc the lxc-lucid template created it
[21:46] <lifeless> ok, so I
[21:46] <hallyn> so yes, the idea is the template doesn't change the container, you just run lxcguest in a plain VM, then you can boot it either in kvm or a container
[21:46] <hallyn> no changes
[21:47] <Daviey> hallyn: backports baby!
[21:47] <hallyn> Daviey: well, it's in ubuntu-virt ppa...
[21:47] <hallyn> i thought that was a reasonably official place to put it
[21:47] <lifeless>  https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview now with lxcguest info
[21:47]  * Daviey watchs hallyn stir the beehive of PPA's vs Backports.
[21:49] <hallyn> lifeless: I just want to get my lxc-lvmcreate script back itno my pacakge, then I will push it to ppa:serge-hallyn/lxc-natty and blog about how to use it to do the arch and home bind mounting
[21:50] <lifeless> hallyn: let me know as things improve and become accessible, I'll happily update this wiki page
[21:51] <hallyn> lifeless: great,thanks
[21:51] <hallyn> jdstrand: kees: does one of you have any input on the safety and sanity of the api used with /dev/fuse?
[21:51] <hallyn> (regarding bug 800886)
[21:52] <hallyn> if you gusy tell me it's safe, I'll just add it to the whitelist int he template
[21:52]  * jdstrand does not otoh, but I am going to point mdeslaur at this too (who might have more up to date info) ^
[21:53] <hallyn> cool, thanks.  yeah i just meant top of head.  if research is required i'll go read the code.
[21:54] <kees> hallyn: my understanding is that the fuse perms are checked at the kernel level.
[21:54] <kees> hallyn: I haven't though much about how that might behave with a container, though.
[21:54] <kees> in _theory_, it should be fine, but I've never tested it
[21:55] <hallyn> kees: oh i wasn't even thinking about uid translations over namespaces.  (that'll be my job :)
[21:55] <hallyn> kees: I'm wondering how... 'rich' the API over /dev/fuse is.  Do you trust people who connect to it?
[21:56] <hallyn> kees: or does it have a small, ilmited API that I can sort of trust
[21:56] <hallyn> by 'do you trust people' i meant 'do you *have* to trust people'
[22:02] <kees> hallyn: well, it's designed for non-root users, but I haven't spent any time auditing it.
[22:02] <hallyn> kees: so it's world writeable usually?
[22:03] <hallyn> so it is
[22:03] <kees> hallyn: yes
[22:03] <hallyn> so why would i worry about it
[22:03] <hallyn> kees: thx :)
[22:03] <kees> heh, np
[22:03] <hallyn> of course,
[22:03] <hallyn> i assume th kernel code checks uids.  but again that just means its up to me to clean that up when time comes
[22:03] <hallyn> neaty
[22:03] <hallyn> neato, even
[22:05] <lifeless> \o/
[22:22] <hallyn> gah, i *still* haven't asked for lxc upload perms
[22:22] <hallyn> zul: can you help a brother out? :)
[22:24] <hallyn> Daviey: still there?
[22:26] <hallyn> Daviey: could you push http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu11/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu11.dsc   for me?
[22:29] <huats> hallyn, is it just uploading it ?
[22:29] <huats> or do you need anything special on it ?
[22:29] <huats> (well you mean to ubuntu just to be sure)
[22:30] <huats> (I am asking if the great Daviey is not around)
[22:32] <hallyn> huats: yeah, just uploading it
[23:30]  * SpamapS shouts "CHOO CHOOO" after riding the sl train


[02:18] <arand> Could someone open a task for precise on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/redeclipse/+bug/1034148 please?
[02:18] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1034148 in redeclipse "redeclipse: security issues with transmitted map cfgs" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:15] <green7> hi
[13:35] <green7> hi
[14:28] <RandomBloke> Hi, after a recent quantal update window controls are now on the right instead of left, should I report this?
[14:29] <smartboyhw> RandomBloke: You should
[14:30] <RandomBloke> Ok, I will.
[14:30] <RandomBloke> I assume this isn't something that should happen then.
[14:31] <smartboyhw> Yep, it shouldn't.
[14:31] <RandomBloke> Thanks, bye!
[17:41] <redd> hi
[18:49] <green7> hello
[18:50] <green7> I've got a question!
[18:53] <penguin42> ask it!
[18:54] <green7> if someone files a bug for some third-party package, what should a triager do?
[18:56] <penguin42> can you give an example of a 3rd party package?
[18:57] <green7> I mean something which is not maintained by Ubuntu
[18:57] <green7> like someone today filed a bug for 'Calibre'. I don't think it is maintained by Ubuntu (although I'm not sure)
[18:57] <penguin42> bug number?
[18:58] <green7> 1035633. But I cannot access it anymore.
[18:58] <penguin42> bug 1035633
[18:59] <penguin42> hmph, where is our friendly bot
[18:59] <penguin42> hmph, won't let me either
[19:00] <green7> Maybe somone removed it.
[19:00] <penguin42> green7: I think if it's really a commercial/3rd party package then I'd leave it to them, although if the bug is missing something obvious it's worth asking for it;' like if the bug really no gives no useful info
[19:01] <green7> And how can I find out whether a particular package/application is maintained by Ubuntu?
[19:02] <penguin42> green7: Most things are - you can look at packages.ubuntu.com and apt-cache policy can tell you which repo it came from; if it's in the main/multiverse/universe I'd treat it as normal
[19:03] <penguin42> green7: Only something that's from the partner repo or not on packages.u.c would I treat specially
[19:03] <green7> got it
[19:33] <Logan_> What is the appropriate response when a person runs apport-collect on a bug, and it says that the package is provided by a PPA? Should the bug be marked as invalid?
[19:34] <Logan_> Or should I mark as Incomplete, say to run ppa-purge, and then see if the bug still exists?
[19:34] <penguin42> bug number?
[19:34] <Logan_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-workspace/+bug/1035683
[19:34] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1035683 in kde-workspace "upon resuming from suspend, kwin crashes" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[19:34] <Logan_> In fact, it says: "UnreportableReason: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again."
[19:34] <Logan_> So Apport wouldn't even let the report go through if it was reported correctly.
[19:35] <penguin42> Logan_: OK, it's not just any old PPA - it's from the backports ppa
[19:35] <Logan_> Right.
[19:36] <penguin42> Logan_: Hmm, apport seems to have added almost nothing useful, which is a shame - some logs/backtrace would be useful if they were still there
[19:36] <Logan_> And the bug is somewhat sparse as it is.
[19:37] <penguin42> Logan_: I'd ask whether it's a repeatable crash; if it's repeatable then yes I'd ask to retry with the non-ppa version and then try an apport
[19:37] <Logan_> Okay, will do.
[19:38] <Logan_> penguin42: Won't it be a mess if s/he runs apport-collect again in the bug?
[19:38] <Logan_> Should I ask him/her to file a new bug instead with Apport once the official package is installed?
[19:38] <penguin42> Logan_: I wouldn't bother with a new bug, might need a flag on apport to let it add
[19:38] <Logan_> Okay.
[19:38] <penguin42> Logan_: I don't think it will be confusing because the existing apport log has almost nothing
[19:40] <Logan_> penguin42: Is my response appropriate?
[19:41] <penguin42> looks good
[19:42] <Logan_> Awesome.
[19:51] <penguin42> Logan_: If it was a fairly arbitrary ppa I'd kind of agree it was an invalid, but things like the backports and things like xorg-edgers for latest stuff seem reasonable to track - as long as it's clear (maybe a note in title)
[19:52] <Logan_> Makes sense.
[20:26] <snamellit> when doing triage, do you assign the bug to yourself or leave it unassigned?
[20:29] <penguin42> normally leave it unassigned
[20:29] <snamellit> thanks
[20:30] <snamellit> how can you practical follow up on these bugs?
[20:30] <penguin42> depends on the bug!
[20:31] <penguin42> snamellit: Don't try and do every bug you see, only do the ones you're comfortable with
[20:33] <snamellit> well, i am not comfortable with any bug right now... I am just trying to bearings...
[20:34] <penguin42> snamellit: So some bugs you can find are already fixed, some you'll find are dupes of others, some you can confirm or state are still a problem, some you can ask the reporter for mor einformation, or if they've given enough end up as triaged
[20:35] <snamellit> What about 'works as intended' bugs?
[20:36] <penguin42> snamellit: You can close as invalid or mark as opinion; but you need to make sure it's really as intended, and even if it is intended is the bug reporter right to say that's bad?
[20:37] <snamellit> In this case the reporter complains that FF does not store a password when instructed by the site not to.
[20:38] <penguin42> bug number ?
[20:39] <snamellit> 1035574
[20:39] <penguin42> bug 1035574
[20:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035574 in firefox "Does not offer to save password at https://cas.unistra.fr/cas/login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035574
[20:39] <penguin42> if you say bug then the bot picks it up :-)
[20:39] <snamellit> cas is a single sign on service.
[20:40] <penguin42> ok, I don't know enough about password/html foo to know what's reasonable there
[20:40] <snamellit> i set one of these up at work...
[20:41] <penguin42> snamellit: OK, so if you know why it doesn't and it's a thing from the site, then I'd add a comment explaining why it doesn't, and then mark invalid
[20:41] <snamellit> thanks, will do
[20:42] <penguin42> snamellit: On something like that always put the explanation about it so that they can see the reasoning
[20:45] <snamellit> done, ok like that?
[20:48] <penguin42> yep, looks good
[22:25] <penguin42> hmm it might be good to /topic that people should quote a bug number if possible
[23:15] <penguin42> do we do anything special with overlay-scrollbar bugs - I'm assuming it's appropriate to add overlay-scrollbar to the bug in question


[00:24] <poolie> hey
[00:25] <poolie> is there any way to get usage statistics or http access logs for a ppa?
[00:26] <lifeless> there is an early stage api
[00:26] <lifeless> fta has some scripts that generate reports from it
[00:30] <poolie> hi there
[00:30] <poolie> thanks
[05:40] <eternicode> where's the option to activate a ppa?  I've scoured my profile page and can't seem to find it...
[05:44] <wgrant> eternicode: https://launchpad.net/people/+me, "Create a new PPA"
[05:44] <lifeless> ttps://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[05:45] <eternicode> um... ok... maybe that's the wrong question...
[05:45] <eternicode> I already have two ppas setup, but neither "exist" under http://ppa.launchpad.net/eternicode/
[05:45] <wgrant> eternicode: They'll exist there once you upload a package.
[05:47] <eternicode> I've done that, as well.  The particular ppa I'm looking for has several version of a package built.  Is there a delay or something between successful builds and the ppa springing into existence?
[05:47] <eternicode> *versions
[05:47] <wgrant> It can take up to 10 minutes.
[05:47] <wgrant> But normally only a couple of minutes.
[05:47] <eternicode> it's been a couple hours since the first successful build :/
[05:48] <wgrant> Let's see.
[05:48] <wgrant> Indeed. Something is wrong.
[05:48] <wgrant> Let me see.
[05:49] <eternicode> eternicode/rtorrent-0.8.7
[05:51] <eternicode> also, this ppa is one that I previously "deleted", then "undeleted"
[05:51] <wgrant> Ahh.
[05:53] <eternicode> ...
[05:55] <eternicode> I assume that affects things somehow, and I'll have to start over from scratch with a differently-named repo because the server software happens to be broken in this one little corner case?
[05:55] <lifeless> we're checking for any production issues
[05:55] <StevenK> eternicode: No, we're still investigating, sorry.
[05:55] <lifeless> I thought that ppa deletes were permanent
[05:56] <lifeless> how did you undelete it?
[05:56] <wgrant> You can unfortunately reenable it and turn on publishing, and it all just about works.
[05:57] <eternicode> I went to /+edit on the repo, and checked the "enabled" box
[05:58] <eternicode> sorry for the bit of attitude there.  I'm used to sub-minute responses :)
[05:58] <eternicode> oh, wait... there's a "publish" box, too.  *checks it and saves"
[05:59] <StevenK> That might be it, you know
[05:59] <StevenK> Reanimation of dead PPAs is a black art
[05:59] <wgrant> Ahh.
[05:59] <wgrant> There is a warning about that on the PPA page...
[05:59] <eternicode> hehe
[05:59] <wgrant> But I guess that's suppressed when the archive is deleted.
[05:59] <eternicode> no effect so far, I'll give it a few minutes.
[06:00] <wgrant> It should be running in a few seconds.
[06:01] <wgrant> 2011-05-03 05:01:00 INFO    Processing http://ppa.launchpad.net/eternicode/rtorrent-0.8.7/ubuntu
[06:01] <eternicode> there it is, yay.
[06:01] <eternicode> thanks for jogging my brains :)
[09:51] <soren> Any idea why the build queues are so incredibly long right now? I was suspecting an archive rebuild, but none of the active builds I see on https://launchpad.net/builders/ right now look like archive rebuild builds.
[09:53] <maxb> soren: Look at the number of PPA builders - there's only 6 per arch.
[09:53] <maxb> The rest have all been stolen for natty release duties
[09:55] <soren> maxb: Oh, ok. I guess I've never really thought much about how many there are under normal circumstances, so didn't notice that the number was lower than normal.
[09:55] <soren> maxb: Thanks!
[09:56] <wgrant> There's normally about 20 of each.
[11:19] <RichiH> is there any way to change my launchpad id other than creating a new account? it was set to richih+launchpad based on the email i used automagically which kinda sucks as a name
[11:20] <RichiH> s/kinda //
[11:27] <wgrant> RichiH: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+edit
[11:27] <wgrant> Second field on there.
[11:40] <RichiH> wgrant: cool, thanks!
[11:40] <RichiH> hah, seems i have had that nick since 2006...
[11:41] <RichiH> ...but no idea what email address i might have used, back then
[11:41] <wgrant> Let me see.
[11:41] <wgrant> @freenode.net
[11:41] <RichiH> wgrant: RichiH
[11:41] <RichiH> oh
[11:41] <RichiH> weird choice
[11:41] <RichiH> but thanks
[11:42] <wgrant> RichiH: You can merge your new account into your old one. Just log in with the old address, and visit https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
[11:42] <RichiH> wgrant: purrfect, thanks
[13:03] <Rhonda> I think there is issues with launchpad <-> debbugs connection, is that known?
[13:03] <Rhonda> bug #511912 shows the debbugs bug as not found and New, where it is already closed.
[13:04] <Rhonda> I doubt this is a single case.
[13:05] <henninge> Rhonda: I am not aware of any current problems here. Maybe gmb knows more about this?
[13:10] <wgrant> Rhonda: It may be relevant that the bug is archived.
[13:11] <jdobrien> is it possible to rename an LP project so that it's path changes?
[13:11] <Rhonda> wgrant: Right, but that would mean tons of old buglinks would get reopened over times as bugs get archived. That sounds like a horror.
[13:12] <wgrant> jdobrien: Ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion and an admin can do it for you.
[13:12] <jdobrien> wgrant, thanks
[13:12] <wgrant> Rhonda: It wasn't reopened. It was just never closed.
[13:13] <jdobrien> wgrant, just give them the name and they'll change it for me?
[13:13] <wgrant> jdobrien: Yes.
[13:14] <wgrant> Rhonda: When was it closed?
[13:14] <wgrant> Rhonda: There were debbugs sync problems early last year.
[13:15] <wgrant> jdobrien: Done.
[13:16] <jdobrien> wgrant, wow, thanks
[13:20] <wgrant> jdobrien: I have sufficient privileges, but needed a question to confirm you were actually you.
[13:21] <jdobrien> wgrant, good point
[13:26] <Rhonda> wgrant: it claims the bug doesn't even exist. About when it was closed, just follow the link, but let me dig it up for you
[13:26]  * Rhonda . o O ( if only bugs would react faster … )
[13:26] <Rhonda> wgrant: 11th of february, archived 12th of march
[13:26] <Rhonda> This year
[13:27] <wgrant> Rhonda: That was last year, but yeah.
[13:28] <wgrant> I suspect it was failing for a while before it was archived. And we possibly don't sync archived bug.
[13:28] <wgrant> +s
[13:29] <Rhonda> Did I look wrong?  *checksagain*
[13:29] <Rhonda> Uhm, right, yes.
[13:38] <RichiH> hah, i found a bug
[13:38] <wgrant> RichiH: Oh?
[13:39] <RichiH> when having<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as my email address, i could add<EMAIL_ADDRESS>. now that i have<EMAIL_ADDRESS>set, adding<EMAIL_ADDRESS>does not work
[13:39] <RichiH><EMAIL_ADDRESS>is already set as your contact address.
[13:40] <wgrant> RichiH: You're clicking on the "Add" button, not the "Set as Contact Address" one?
[13:43] <RichiH> wgrant: i was pressing enter, but that should go to Add, yes
[13:43] <RichiH> i only have one address, atm
[13:44] <wgrant> I can see you only have one. Hmm.
[13:44] <RichiH> intredasting... when not pressing enter, it worked
[13:44] <wgrant> What if you actually click Add?
[13:44] <RichiH> that worked
[13:44] <wgrant> It is probably all one form :(
[13:44] <wgrant> There we go.
[13:44] <RichiH> as an aside, the email address confirmation site simply offers cancel or confirm
[13:45] <RichiH> without telling me _what_ i am deciding upon
[13:45] <wgrant> No text? :/
[13:45] <RichiH> no
[13:45] <wgrant> That's not meant to happen.
[13:45] <wgrant> Thanks for letting us know.
[13:45] <RichiH> the URL tells me etc, but no text
[13:48] <jussi> So, to repeat my question from a few days back, can anyone "sell" me the features of LP for commercial use? why should I take it? are the little perks I dont know about?
[13:49] <henninge> jussi: With a commercial subscription you get:
[13:49] <henninge> - private branches
[13:49] <henninge> - private bugs
[13:49] <henninge> - private teams
[13:50] <henninge> Launchpad is free for free software but you need to pay to host non-free software.
[13:50] <jussi> henninge: and how secure is it? i.e how possible is it that someone can break in? Are there any example companies you can give out names who are using the service? Also, how much does it cost? (I did see a figure somewhere, but I cant find it again)
[13:51] <henninge> https://launchpad.net/+tour/join-launchpad#commercial
[13:51] <henninge> jussi: it's $250 a year
[13:52] <jussi> ahh, the figure was evading my eyes :D
[13:52] <henninge> maybe bac can help you with the references you asked for.
[13:53] <jussi> yeah, some references would be great. Ive got the decisionmakers 80% convinced...
[13:53] <bac> henninge, jussi: i think mrevell is your best bet for that information today.
[13:53] <jussi> talk about passing the buck! :P :P
[13:53] <henninge> bac: right, I forgot. ;)
[13:53] <bac> jussi: sorry, i know it looks that way.
[13:53]  * jussi waits for mrevell
[13:53] <mrevell> hey jussi, how can I help?
[13:54] <jussi> bac: its no problem
[13:54] <jussi> mrevell: can i pm?
[13:54]  * mrevell reads up
[13:54] <mrevell> sure jussi
[13:56] <jussi> thanks bac and henninge
[14:10] <deryck> adeuring, aren't you supposed to be help contact now, instead of henninge?
[14:10] <adeuring> deryck: ouch...
[15:09] <deryck> adeuring, how about we switch at top of next hour since you just started your shift?
[15:10] <adeuring> deryck: sure, sounds good
[15:10] <deryck> adeuring, awesome, thanks!
[15:56] <deryck> adeuring, I'll take it now, thanks!
[15:56] <adeuring> deryck: thanks!
[18:48] <deryck> abentley, shall we switch now?  Your turn on IRC?
[19:26] <deryck> abentley, ?
[19:35] <micahg> deryck: are package/distro bug subscribers hidden by default now?
[19:35] <micahg> *supposed to be
[19:35] <abentley> deryck: sure.
[19:36] <deryck> micahg: yeah, I believe they are.  although another squad is doing that work.
[19:36] <deryck> abentley: thanks!
[19:37] <deryck> micahg: trying to recall who's on yellow squad to confirm for sure. :-)
[19:37] <micahg> deryck: well, I'd like to discuss with someone, but can't right now
[19:41] <deryck> micahg: bac or benji can confirm that and explain more if need be.
[19:42] <micahg> deryck: ok, thanks
[19:44] <benji> micahg: I think https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/772754 is pertinent
[19:50] <micahg> benji: thanks, that includes the issues I was worried about
[20:37] <cody-somerville> If I'm getting branch notifications via membership in a team subscribed to the branch... if I subscribe myself directly with different notification settings will I still get the notifications from the the former?
[20:38] <benji> cody-somerville: nope; direct subscriptions supercede structural subscriptions
[20:39] <cody-somerville> Great, thanks.
[20:44] <abentley> benji: when I was working on that code, direct subscriptions superseded team subscriptions.
[20:44] <benji> abentley: is that a correction or an amplification?
[20:45] <abentley> benji: it might be a correction.  Perhaps your experience with that code is more recent than mine.
[20:46] <benji> I'm not certain, but my recollection is that direct subscriptions supersede all non-direct subscriptions.
[20:49] <abentley> benji: Right.  I don't think being subscribed indirectly makes it a structural subscription, though.
[20:51] <benji> abentley: right, I missed that bit (and I thought he was talking about a bug target/bug not two subscriptions to the same branch)


[01:55] <Daviey> soren: late reply - getting verbose information 10 times per second aint helpful :)
[01:55] <Daviey> Bug 256767
[01:56] <Daviey> Bug #256767
[01:56] <Daviey> fail
[03:36] <andresmujica> hi!
[03:36] <andresmujica> is it possible if someone can check this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/290506
[10:57] <NCommander> amitk, ping
[10:58] <amitk> NCommander: hiya
[11:36] <Kano> hi, is there a 2.6.28 test git somewhere?
[11:48] <amitk> Kano: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/rtg/ubuntu-next
[11:48] <Kano> ah, this is already 2.6.28?
[11:48] <Kano> 2 month old git?
[11:48] <amitk> Kano: according to rtg's post it was supposed to be
[11:48] <Kano> well from shortlot it is 2.6.27-1.2
[11:50] <amitk> huh.. looks like he did the work, sent email to the mailing list but forgot to push it out
[11:50] <Kano> funny
[11:51] <amitk> Kano: actually it is from 5 days ago
[11:51] <amitk> so he seems to have pushed it out
[11:51] <amitk> only the tags are missing
[11:52] <amitk> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=rtg/ubuntu-next/.git;a=shortlog;pg=1
[11:52] <amitk> look for Linus' commits
[11:52] <Kano> ah rtg next
[11:53] <Kano> will check it out
[12:15] <Kano> amitk: well it does not seem to compile also it tries to create still a 2.6.27 package
[15:05] <zul> uh...include/asm-x86/ has been moved in 2.6.28?
[15:10] <mjg59> Yes, arch/x86/include
[15:41] <Kano> zul: does the new git repo compile for you?
[15:42] <zul> Kano: i havent tried
[16:56] <NCommander> amitk, you told me once why it would be a bad idea to have something, say, the rt kernel patchset (as an example) build out of the linux-ports source package via binary-custom.d, what was the reasoning behind that?
[16:57] <amitk> NCommander: i don't recall that conversation
[16:57] <NCommander> oh
[16:58]  * NCommander would like to be able to generate linux-ports-rt out of a single source package via the binary-custom mechanism, but if its a bad idea ...
[17:49] <BenC> NCommander: because if the patch starts failing to apply, it holds up the entire source
[17:50] <BenC> NCommander: we ran into that before, and that's why we took those patchsets out of the main tree
[17:50] <NCommander> BenC, that's only a problem if the tree is constantly rebasing
[17:50] <BenC> NCommander: not true...any patch has the potential to cause the rt patchset to get rejects
[17:51] <BenC> especially with something like -rt, which touches hundreds of source files
[17:51] <BenC> even drivers
[17:51] <NCommander> right
[17:51] <NCommander> Or TuxOnIce
[17:51] <NCommander> The current solution however isn't what I call pretty w.r.t. to the way linux-rt works
[17:52] <NCommander> This is one of those catch-22 scenarios
[17:52] <BenC> NCommander: the current scenario puts the blame and responsibility directly on the person who wants to maintain the patchset
[17:52] <BenC> which is exactly how it should be
[17:53] <NCommander> makes sense
[19:12] <StOrM_NW> any recommendations where can i find some information about how to debug an own kernel module?
[19:13] <StOrM_NW> i m getting kernel panic with an old own module that i tried to port to the ubuntu kernel 2.6.27-7
[23:30] <marlock> hi
[23:31] <marlock> i did recompile a vanilla kernel
[23:31] <marlock> how can i create the related restricted modules?
[23:32] <marlock> i need the same that are in linux-restricted-drivers...
[23:32] <marlock> linux-restricted-modules, sorry...
[23:40] <marlock> is there anyone can answer me?


[03:37] <ianm_> can anyone recommend a usb/midi interface that's plug'n'play in ubuntu?
[03:38] <holstein> ianm_: yup
[03:38]  * holstein busy for a bit though
[03:38] <holstein> try #opensourcemusicians :)
[15:19] <maavihs> anyone here?
[15:20] <jussi> no :P
[15:20] <maavihs> anyone here who can help me out?
[15:20] <jussi> just ask, and see!
[15:20] <maavihs> i wanted to no wats the defference between
[15:21] <maavihs> Ubuntu & StudioUbuntu
[15:21] <jussi> !studio
[15:21] <maavihs> other then the extra apps
[15:21] <rlameiro> maavihs: the desktop is streamlined
[15:21] <jussi> not much, few settings to make it better for audio
[15:21] <rlameiro> its ver simple, maximazing the desktop are
[15:22] <rlameiro> and uses fixed network setup, to avoid constant polling
[15:22] <rlameiro> this way taxes less the CPU
[15:22] <maavihs> hmmm......any more changes than that?
[15:23] <rlameiro> you have less generalistic software installed by default
[15:23] <maavihs> any idea when is the Ubuntu Studio 10.10 coming out?
[15:23] <rlameiro> but you can install wathever you want after
[15:23] <rlameiro> we hope tomorrow :D
[15:24] <rlameiro> perfect 10
[15:24] <maavihs> Niceeee
[15:24] <rlameiro> 10.10.10
[15:24] <maavihs> yup!
[17:57] <rOjo> Hi..
[17:58] <rOjo> i'm an amateur DJ/Producer from méxico... and have just heard about UbuntuStudio, anyone here have tried xwax (http://www.xwax.co.uk) with ubuntustudio?
[18:02] <Sikil> Hi, i'm an amateur DJ/Producer from méxico... and have just heard about UbuntuStudio, anyone here have tried xwax (http://www.xwax.co.uk) with ubuntustudio?
[18:07] <ScottL> hi Sikil or r0jo
[18:07] <ScottL> i have heard of others using xwax but i have not myself
[18:07] <ScottL> do you need a tutorial?
[18:20] <Sikil> :-/
[18:21] <Sikil> looks like i have problems with the webclient..
[18:21] <holstein> whats going on Sikil ?
[18:21] <Sikil> ScottL, you mentioned a tutorial for ubuntustudio and xwax is there one?
[18:22] <Sikil> kind of google about those topics but i missed it...
[18:22] <Sikil> i googled about it, i mean..
[18:23] <holstein> hey, looks like xwax is in the repos
[18:23]  * holstein installing
[18:24] <holstein> looks like its coming from the universe repostitory
[18:25] <Sikil> hey holstein, jusr heard about this ubuntu version and i'm going to install it today.. trying to get a DVS form my DJ setup.
[18:28] <holstein> i have only used http://sourceforge.net/projects/idjc/
[18:28] <Sikil_> arggh.. i guess i'll need to install a desktop IRC client...
[18:28] <ScottL> Sikil, this is a good place for ubuntu studio   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[18:28] <ScottL> although it's not really a tutorial since ubuntu studio is a operating system geared towards multimedia
[18:29] <Sikil_> the thing is that if ubuntu studio supports ALSA it's like almost done with xwax mos people poblems with xwax on ubutun is because the oficial distro does not include ALSA preconfigured...
[18:29] <Sikil_> well i'm just assuming that...
[18:30] <ScottL> i'm not sur what you mean by 'does not include ALSA preconfigured' Sikil_
[18:30] <ScottL> are you referring to the ubuntu studio or to xwax
[18:33] <Sikil> :-/
[18:33] <Sikil> just regular ubuntu i mean.. wich comes with pulseaudio right?
[18:34] <holstein> so does ubuntustudio
[18:34] <holstein> BUT thats not the problem im having with xwax
[18:35] <Sikil> you know what.. i'll better read a about it and try it.. then i'll come back with a good irc lcitn cause this (http://webchat.freenode.net/) and frigg seems to have issues..
[18:36] <Sikil> frigg [~frigg@freenode/utility-bot/frigg] requested CTCP VERSION from Sikil:
[18:36] <rlameiro> Sikil: that is normal, these request happen always
[18:38] <Sikil> Well, thanks people...  saludos from México.
[18:39] <holstein> well, whatever xwax is suppose to do, it doesnt seem to want to do it
[18:43] <ScottL> denada
[23:23] <Tweaky> hi :) could anyone explain the difference between ubuntu and ubuntu studio?
[23:25] <ianm_> Tweaky: I think Studio has different default programs and sound configuration, at least
[23:26] <Tweaky> ianm_:  just curious because i do use linux for audio recording but dunno what the difference is
[23:27] <ianm_> Tweaky: I think it uses JACK instead of PulseAudio and comes with more media creation apps installed, plus aesthetic differences
[23:29] <Tweaky> ianm_: is there an advantage to using JACK?
[23:29] <ianm_> Tweaky: depends what you're doing-- I think it's better for low latency / professional audio stuff
[23:30] <ianm_> Tweaky: for playing music, for basic recording, ALSA or PulseAudio seems fine
[23:32] <Tweaky> ianm_: thanks for the info :) appreciate it
[23:59]  * persia idly mentions that ALSA is configured to work by default, and all the pulse stuff is just an overlay


[00:29] <guiverc> debian soft-waves :)
 @wxl[m] [<wxl[m]> @tsimonq2 I just thought maybe you might have some insight. Adding an a …], I'm more convinced that we should drop nm-tray in favor of nm-applet
[01:12] <wxl[m]> I know why you feel that way and I'm sure you know why we'd like to not!
 Jajajja
[04:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE8d03dc04a1f4: DSC file for 29] Diffusion committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE8d03dc04a1f4
[04:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE5f85568b3047: Import patches-unapplied version 29 to debian/sid] agaida (Alf Gaida) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE5f85568b3047
[04:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVEa007f7ad9426: Import patches-applied version 29 to applied/debian/sid] agaida (Alf Gaida) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVEa007f7ad9426
[05:41] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE2e166303c165: DSC file for 29] Diffusion committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTMETAPACKAGESARCHIVE2e166303c165
 @HMollerCl [I'm more convinced that we should drop nm-tray in favor of nm-applet], Why?
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Why?], Mainly because nm-tray has to basic configuration options. But is full Qt and consumes less resources than cmst
 Fwd from Lubuntu Announcements: We have reached 5,000 followers on Twitter! Thank you! ... You can follow us here: https://twitter.com/LubuntuOfficial ... https://twitter.com/LubuntuOfficial/status/1097612456522891264
 It seems to me that bash is less resource intensive than python. Giving that, it's better to develop in bash that python? Any contrary argument?
 (Obviously I'm talking about basic scripts)
[22:53] <wxl> i think it's a question of what you want to do
[22:54] <wxl> there certainly are limitations to what you can do with python
[22:54] <wxl> s/python/bash/
[22:54] <wxl> and python is waaaaay more readable
[22:54] <wxl> that said, i have found bash to be generally the better solution
[22:55] <wxl> btw if you're putting something in the repos, it's really best to make sure you're portable
 That I'm portable?
[22:56] <wxl> in other words, don't use bash, but /bin/sh
[22:56] <wxl> make it POSIX-compliant
[22:56] <wxl> unfortunately that will mean more limitations
[22:56] <wxl> a lot of "bashisms" will be missing
 Ok
 But is really simple what I want to do
[22:57] <wxl> ooh this is nice http://sites.harvard.edu/%7Elib113/reference/unix/portable_scripting.html
 The interpreter of python consumes more than 5meg
[23:01] <wxl> bashisms include: [[, ((, { (including ${ and string handling), function (!), let, local, select, source, <<< (here strings), &>, string comparison with == in test
 what I want to do is to run this script and parse teh output ... /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check
 which are two number separated by ;
 should be prety easy with bash.


[01:29] <sem> I wish firefox would copy edge's vertical tabs
[01:30] <sem> That's its killer feature
[01:31] <sem> Why use a snap at all if the developer officially supports the deb?
[01:31] <sem> What is the use case if the deb works
[01:33] <daftykins> there are extensions for that
[01:42] <JanC> vertical tabs?  like TreeStyleTab or that other one?
[01:43] <JanC> if so, Firefox has had that for 15-20 years or so  ;)
[02:59] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[14:15] <leftyfb> sem: Mozilla officially supports the snap since they are the ones who maintain it