[20:25] <warren> Hi, does anyone know the status of compcache inclusion in the upstream kernel?
[21:17] <radii> warren: I haven't seen any compcache patches posted to lkml, which I would suspect should come before inclusion.
[21:18] <warren> I see.


[09:51] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[19:14] <vorathiel21> Hi people, i wanna   put   /home/user/.cache  and   /tmp  directories  in  /run/shm   to increase performance and   clean temp files on every reboot.  Can i do this with symlinks  ??
[19:19] <waltman>  /tmp should already be getting clear on reboot.
[19:19] <waltman> cleared
[19:21] <waltman> Looking online, I think there might be a issue with running out of memory if you try to save too much to /tmp or .cache and have those really be in ram.
[19:26] <waltman> You might want to read through the issues raised here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1533639
[19:27] <vorathiel21> thnx for your answer.  Yeah i read something like that, but i'll take that risk .  At least to test ...
[19:28] <waltman> Also keep in mind that recently accessed files will be in the disk cache, so they'll already be in RAM
[19:29] <vorathiel21> u got a point with that
[19:29] <vorathiel21> hmmm
[19:31] <waltman> it's complicated!
[19:31] <vorathiel21> i just don't want to  declare  two separated tmpfs in fstab . One fot  /tmp  another  for  /home/user/.cache   ...
[19:33] <vorathiel21> if i can put the two directories under  /run/shm   it's all in the same place
[20:36] <vorathiel21> thnx for your help  waltman
[20:49] <waltman> vorathiel21: tbh I've never tried to do this myself. You might get more of a response during the week than on a Saturday.
[20:49] <waltman> or on #ubuntu
[20:50] <swift110> hey all


[00:32] <imon> anyone know how to set up ircd-hybrid to make user supply a password to connect??
[00:54] <imon> echo.....
[01:20] <imon> anyone know how to set up ircd-hybrid to make user supply a password to connect??
[01:50] <govatent> RoAkSoAx, ping
[02:13] <RoAkSoAx> govatent pong
[02:38] <imon> anyone around?
[02:42] <govatent> I am, but I don't have an answer to that.
[02:42] <govatent> sorry
[02:46] <RoAkSoAx> govatent what up?
[02:46] <govatent> nothing much
[02:46] <govatent> may i pm you?
[02:47] <RoAkSoAx> lol u dont have to ask me man go ahead
[02:48] <RoAkSoAx> govatent ^^
[04:26] <imon> thanks n e way govatent
[04:33] <imon> anyone around?
[11:25] <mianosm> FRIST
[12:29] <mhall119> lol
[13:26] <munz> mhall119, u know much about ircd-hybrid irc server?
[13:29] <munz> ping mhall119
[13:33] <mhall119> munz: pong
[13:33] <mhall119> nope, I've never used ircd-hybrid
[13:33] <mhall119> sorry
[13:33] <munz> :( txanx
[13:33] <munz> kno any one who has?
[13:33] <mhall119> does it have documentation?
[13:33] <mhall119> no, I've never even heard of it before you asked
[13:34] <munz> yea some, just confusing sorta
[13:34] <mhall119> :(
[13:34] <munz> set it up for internal use @ work
[13:34] <munz> inter office private irc chat
[13:35] <munz> want to push a port forward through for out of office use for pc's and phones
[13:35] <munz> but want to make it ask for a password to connect
[13:35] <munz> just cant figure it out
[13:35] <munz> :(
[13:36] <tiemonster> munz: ssh SOCKS5 proxy
[13:36] <munz> can i run android through that?
[13:36] <tiemonster> oh
[13:37] <munz> yea bosses phone is the stump...hust be easy too
[13:37] <munz> *must
[13:38] <tiemonster> I don't have an android phone
[13:38] <tiemonster> I don't know if it's possible to set a proxy or not
[13:39] <tiemonster> I've never heard of a password-protected IRC server, though
[13:39] <tiemonster> don't know if it exists
[13:39] <munz> kinda just figured maybe at some point someone would have had the need...
[13:40] <munz> guess if i dont it wont be that bad
[13:40] <munz> just dont want to create any vulnerabilities
[13:41] <tiemonster> SOCKS5 proxy would be the rest way, IMHO
[13:41] <munz> cool, thanx :)
[13:41] <tiemonster> set up public keys, and they wouldn't even need to remember a password, unless they put one on their key
[13:42] <munz> ok
[13:42] <munz> thanx :)
[13:44] <maxolasersquad> munz: Have you looked into setting up a Jabber server?
[13:45] <munz> no same basic idea?
[13:46] <maxolasersquad> Kinda, it's a chat server, but you could have a group chat.
[13:46] <munz> cool i'll look in to it
[13:46] <maxolasersquad> It's what GTalk uses, and AIM I believe too.
[13:47] <munz> ok, so prob no issues w/android client then huh?
[13:47] <maxolasersquad> jabberd2 is in the repos.
[13:47] <maxolasersquad> No, you should be able to connect with an Android phone.
[13:47] <munz> sweet, thanx bro
[13:47] <maxolasersquad> There's something called jabber-irc in the repos, that might help get you where you want too.  not sure.
[13:48] <munz> k
[14:31] <maxolasersquad> You can now browse the Android market and install apps on your phone, from your desktop at http://market.android.com/
[14:43] <munz> cool maxolasersquad, thx 4 the ideas
[17:23] <reya276> Hello Everyone
[17:56] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ping


[06:17] <sarnold> can someone please give this bug a look and make sure it's been filed against the correct package? it looks too important to overlook if it's been misfiled: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1274380
[06:34] <pitti> Good morning
[06:43] <mitya57> Mirv: pyqt5 uploaded to archive (with dh_install error workarounded)
[07:13] <Mirv> mitya57: hey! I just answered on the bug report too before reading your comment. thanks for fixing the dh_install issue, that was the only thing remaining.
[07:14] <Mirv> great. pyqt5 had slipped somehow through unnoticed, hopefully now about everything is truly rebuilt.
[07:15] <mitya57> Mirv: ready for the transition then?
[07:17] <Noskcaj> Do we still need to not use bz2 in the base system?
[07:17] <Noskcaj> It's only the .debian tarball now in libpng
[07:18] <mitya57> Noskcaj: yes (according to Colin that is needed for debootstrapping)
[07:19] <Mirv> mitya57: the next step would be getting autopilot tests run successfully too, in addition to all the unit tests. that's prevented by bug #1273956 which veebers on #ubuntu-unity is looking at now with patching autopilot-qt
[07:20] <Mirv> (or at least, this requirement is how it is until I'm told otherwise)
[07:21] <Mirv> but at least unity8 + many apps run on the device now, so hopefully no blockers but just mortal bugs to fix
[07:23] <mitya57> Ok, let's hope that will be fixed soon then :)
[07:32] <dholbach> good morning
[07:50] <dholbach> according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cordova-ubuntu/+publishinghistory 2.8.0+14.04.20131024.4-0ubuntu2 should be in trusty for i386/amd64/armhf, but through apt I only get -0ubuntu1
[07:58] <mitya57> dholbach: Maybe your mirror is not updated yet, the upload was just 12 hours ago
[07:59] <dholbach> mitya57, I'm using archive.u.c - does apt give you 0ubuntu2?
[08:01] <mitya57> dholbach: no, 0ubuntu1 here as well
[08:02] <dholbach> wgrant, ^ do you know why this might be?
[08:07] <jibel> pitti, FYI, adt tests do not start, there is a connection timeout from tachash to ftpmaster
[08:07] <pitti> jibel: argh; right, I retried a few tests this morning
[08:09] <Noskcaj> can someone please review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/parole/0.6.0
[08:09] <Noskcaj> It's fairly high priority for xubuntu
[08:11] <jibel> pitti, I notified the CI team, we'll have to wait 50min or so.
[08:11] <pitti> jibel: merci
[08:12] <dholbach> Noskcaj, looking
[08:12] <cjwatson> dholbach: probably only a couple of hours now.  We had a major archive incident last night and had to repair
[08:12] <Noskcaj> thanks dholbach
[08:12] <dholbach> cjwatson, thanks... that's good to know
[08:12] <cjwatson> dholbach: so we shut off all mirroring for the duration
[08:13] <cjwatson> dholbach: (we were very lucky and none of the corruption actually made it to publicly-visible mirrors)
[08:14] <mitya57> Ah, that also explains why I got 16 mails about FTBFS due to chroot problem yesterday :)
[08:14] <cjwatson> mitya57: yes; we retried all those builds in bulk
[08:15] <cjwatson> that was what led us to notice the problem
[08:34] <Mirv> mitya57: oh right, regarding the PPA epoch usage - I wanted a PPA that does not break every time an archive upload of one of the packages is made. I know it's not something one can then eventually upgrade from, but that's what ppa-purge is for. but I can make it a bit more clear in the PPA description
[08:35] <Mirv> mitya57: every time some package is approved for landing, it gets a version number where the date part gets bumped. that change might not be picked by the daily recipe build for up to 24h, meaning the PPA with 80 autobuilding packages would be broken every now and then
[09:04] <seb128> Riddell, hey, did you see that calligra ftbfs on armhf?
[09:05] <seb128> jibel, Laney: could you overwrite the libreoffice autopkgtest result? that's one of those that is always red... (same for xorg-server failing firefox I think)
[09:06] <Laney> yes
[09:06] <Laney> what's the progress on dealing with libreoffice? That was test runner issues IIRC
[09:06] <seb128> thanks
[09:07] <Laney> firefox should be turned off if nobody is going to work on fixing it
[09:07] <darkxst> i
[09:34] <Laney> seb128: can you see the error in calligra?
[09:36] <seb128> Laney,
[09:36] <seb128>      bool isOpenGLUpdateInfo = dynamic_cast<KisOpenGLUpdateInfo*>(info.data());
[09:36] <seb128>  /build/buildd/calligra-2.7.91/krita/ui/canvas/kis_canvas2.cpp: In member function 'void KisCanvas2::updateCanvasProjection(KisUpdateInfoSP)':
[09:36] <seb128>      bool isOpenGLUpdateInfo = dynamic_cast<KisOpenGLUpdateInfo*>(info.data());
[09:36] <Laney> you got it
[09:36] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6842823/
[09:36] <Laney> firefox is dying trying to search this log
[09:37] <seb128> Laney, wget and zless :p
[09:48] <dholbach> ev, happy birthday!
[09:50] <xnox> What is .gnupg/random_seed ?
[09:51] <mlankhorst> it's for a plant, need to use water(2) on it to grow your own tree of trust :)
[09:52] <ypwong> zyga, I found the upstream c-n-f branch you managed differs a little from the one in ubuntu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6842889/
[09:56] <zyga> ypwong: hey
[09:56] <zyga> ypwong: there are at least three active branches, the one for ubuntu, the one on launchpad upstream project and one on github
[09:57] <zyga> ypwong: I don't have the time to clean that up now, I wanted to use github as the active project, with downstream bzr import on launchpad from which the ubuntu branch is derived
[09:58] <zyga> ypwong: if you want to help, propose all the fixes to the github project, it will be imported back to bzr, then propose a merge from the import to the ubuntu branch
[10:03] <Laney> Riddell: (seb128:) test building a fix for that
[10:03] <Laney> if it works can you help me upstream it, Riddell?
[10:05] <ypwong> zyga, got it. the github project is https://github.com/zyga/command-not-found ?
[10:06] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[10:09] <zyga> ypwong: yes
[10:14] <darkxst> Laney, is there some way I can get a dump of all packages in desktop-extras?
[10:15] <Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/trusty/desktop-extra
[10:16] <darkxst> Laney, you can add missing GNOME packages?
[10:17] <Laney> you need to mail devel-permissions about that
[10:17] <Laney> but yes
[10:18] <darkxst> ok, but the idea is that packageset has all GNOME packages, right?
[10:18] <seb128> see the description
[10:18] <seb128> "Description: Every package that is NOT in ubuntu-desktop, desktop-core or core, but needed for a vanilla GNOME."
[10:22] <ypwong> zyga, ok, I will probably look at that 1-2 weeks later due to holidays here
[10:23] <zyga> ypwong: sure, if you need anything ping me but I don't have much time to do the actual coding
[10:23] <zyga> ypwong: thanks for looking at this!!
[10:26] <darkxst> seb128, I saw the description, but specifically things like gnome-boxes, gnome-maps etc are MOTU only
[10:27] <seb128> because they are new and nobody updated the desktop-extra set to add them to it
[10:27] <Laney> yeah, it's manual
[10:28] <Laney> hrm
[10:28] <Riddell> seb128: yeah I've got a likely fix for calligra it just takes so long to test compile it on arm
[10:28] <Laney> Riddell: I uploaded it to a PPA already
[10:28] <Laney> probably the same fix :-)
[10:29] <Riddell> Laney: oh? where?
[10:29] <Laney> a private one unfortunately
[10:29] <seb128> Laney, share the diff at least?
[10:29] <Laney> ok ... nobody asked yet
[10:30] <seb128> just did ;-)
[10:31] <darkxst> Laney, I suppose ubuntu-gnome set also won't have any overlap with -desktop
[10:31] <Laney> right
[10:32] <Laney> xnox: why did you ask about gpg earlier?
[10:33] <Laney> I just noticed that gpg-agent isn't telling me which key it wants the passphrase for
[10:33] <Laney> Riddell: http://paste.debian.net/79184/
[10:34] <xnox> Laney: used it for the first time on one machine, where i didn't use it for a while. and got that warning, but never saw it before.
[10:34] <Laney> something else then
[10:34] <Laney> hmm
[10:35] <Riddell> Laney: you stole my patch!
[10:35] <Laney> great minds :P
[10:49] <darkxst> Laney, right, guess I should just work toward -desktop then
[10:50] <Laney> darkxst: depending on what you're thinking about, probably
[10:50] <Laney> that'll be why people talked about it on your application
[10:53] <darkxst> Laney, well I missed out on MOTU, because all my packaging is GNOME-y, although was only 2 DMB people actaully at the meeting ( rest voted by email)
[10:54] <Laney> there's no overlap between ubuntu-desktop and motu though
[10:54] <darkxst> yes there is
[10:54] <darkxst> but thats not the point
[10:55] <Laney> what
[10:55] <darkxst> I'm not going to start packaging non-Gnome-y stuff just to get MOTU
[10:56] <ev> thanks dholbach!
[10:56] <darkxst> (with the exception of doing transitions, I guess)
[10:56] <Laney> I don't get what you are driving at
[10:56] <Laney> desktop-extra + gnome + ubuntu-desktop should be what you want as far as I can see
[10:57] <darkxst> oh right, DMB said to come back in a couple months and apply for MOTU again, but yes I agree with you
[11:29] <Laney> Riddell: it had another sad :(
[11:29] <seb128> Laney, Riddell: not happy :-(
[11:30] <seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6843290/
[11:30] <Laney> woe
[11:30] <seb128> I guess that can be tested on other archs by trying to build with gl off?
[11:30] <seb128> it might make debugging/fixing easier
[11:42] <Riddell> Laney: I need to get upstream to add this to their test builds
[11:42] <Laney> yes, I think so
[13:01] <Laney> Riddell: you looking into this btw?
[13:05] <Riddell> Laney: I will but I only have 1 pandaboard to compile on, it's at 22% so far
[13:06] <Riddell> spose I could do what seb128 suggested and just build without gl on my laptop
[13:06] <Laney> yep
[13:51] <cjwatson> tseliot: how's the fglrx stuff and nvidia-prime looking in precise-proposed?
[13:51] <bdmurray> pitti: will you upload a fix for bug 1220681 to saucy?
[13:51] <tseliot> cjwatson: it works fine here. I only need to add confirmation in the bug report
[13:54] <cjwatson> tseliot: great.  home stretch for 12.04.4 ...
[13:55] <tseliot> cjwatson: I'll collect all the data, and add confirmation ASAP
[13:59] <pitti> bdmurray: oh, you mean for quantal -> saucy upgrades? yes, can do that if it happens there, too
[13:59] <pitti> (probably it will)
[13:59] <pitti> bdmurray: did you run into this?
[14:00] <jibel> pitti, automated test does
[14:01] <pitti> ack, will do
[14:01] <bdmurray> pitti: it did happen there, the test is wrongly named quantal to trusty
[14:02] <jibel> pitti, http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Upgrade/job/upgrade-ubuntu-quantal-saucy-desktop-amd64/12/artifact/results/apt-term.log
[14:02] <jibel> (was wrongly named :))
[14:02] <bdmurray> pitti: thanks, let me know when its in the queue and I'll have a look at it
[14:03] <pitti> bdmurray: thanks; standup meeting, then Laney's MP, then that
[14:11] <pitti> bdmurray: uploaded; but I'm afraid I don't really know what to add as test case, as the only test case I know (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/espeak/+bug/1220681/comments/6) is hard to reproduce for someone outside
[14:12] <bdmurray> pitti: can the upgrade testing using proposed?
[14:13] <pitti> jibel: ^
[14:13] <pitti> in principle yes
[14:13] <pitti> bdmurray: the manual test case can in any case
[14:13] <pitti> bdmurray: I'm happy to do that verification with the proposed package if that's ok with you
[14:14] <jibel> bdmurray, yes, but last time I tried (10 days ago or so) it couldn't calculate the upgrade. So I disabled it to validate that upgrade tests were working. I can reenable it now.
[14:15] <pitti> jibel: I'd not do it for trusty really
[14:15] <pitti> it'll almost always fail, and failures don't really mean anything
[14:15] <pitti> s/trusty/devel/ in general
[14:15] <jibel> pitti, and for Q->S ?
[14:16] <pitti> jibel: yeah, for stables that's fine
[14:16] <pitti> jibel: in fact for those we probably only want to test to stable-proposed
[14:21] <bdmurray> pitti: I think that level of verification would be fine
[14:22] <pitti> bdmurray: ok, I'll do that as soon as it's published in saucy-proposed
[14:45] <roaksoax> doko: Howdy! Quick question. Should we start using pybuild for packages from now on or continue using dh_python2/dh_python3
[14:46] <doko> roaksoax, I don't care that much ...
[14:50] <xnox> roaksoax: that's arthoganal question. pybuild is a dh_auto_* build system, dh_python2/3 are helpers that generate snippets in postinst of your package
[14:51] <xnox> roaksoax: you must use dh_python2/3 if you want your package in main.
[14:51] <xnox> roaksoax: pybuild is optional, just very good with "dh" based minimal debian/rules
[14:52] <roaksoax> doko: k :)
[14:52] <roaksoax> xnox: yeah,that's what I thought :).
[15:31] <psusi> xnox: I forsee a possible problem with the dmraid->mdadm migration.  It seems that systemd takes pains to pivot_root to an initrd at shutdown so that the root fs can be unmounted and the md arrays stopped.  We don't do this.  For fakeraid arrays this apparently means the whole array will be resynced by the bios.
[15:36] <xnox> psusi: incorrect.
[15:37] <xnox> psusi: we keep mdmon process running (same as e.g. multipath / nfs-root etc) past root filesystem unmounting, such that it can be cleanly closed on shutdown.
[15:38] <psusi> xnox: how?
[15:38] <psusi> the only way to do that seems to be to load an initramfs, and switch to it, and restart the daemon there
[15:39] <xnox> psusi: on systemd- upstream (no idea about the mini-debian or gigantic fedora forks) they change the first character of the process to become "@" which means do not kill this process.
[15:39] <psusi> for that matter, it seems to me that we haven't even been managing to remount the root fs ro for the last few releases
[15:40] <psusi> then it is still holding open files on the root fs
[15:40] <xnox> psusi: in debian/ubuntu we use sendsigs facility to avoid killing the process.
[15:40] <xnox> i do not believe that mdmon holds files open on the root fs in ubuntu. I will test this when i get back to my Intel Raid machine.
[15:41] <psusi> it has to at least hold its own image file open
[15:41] <xnox> which will be on Monday the latest.
[15:41] <psusi> in other words, you can't unmount the fs with /sbin/mdmon on it
[15:59] <sergiusens> ScottK, hello, wondering if you can update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda with more slots
[16:11] <pitti> bdmurray: ok, bug 1220681 is verified
[16:53] <tkamppeter> slangasek, hi
[16:54] <Laney> sergiusens: tumbleweed did the last meeting, he should be updating it soon
[16:55] <arun> hi all
[16:55] <sergiusens> thanks
[16:55] <arun> is python most imp Programming Language for a Linux Softwares Developer?
[16:59] <TJ-> arun: C for Linux, variety of other languages from C, C++ and other higher-levell languages included Python for user-space applications.
[17:10] <tumbleweed> Laney: I always say to myself "I'll do the minutes tomorrow". And then a week whizzes by without me noticing :/
[17:11] <Laney> yeah, I try to make myself do it straight away-ish because of that
[17:12] <tumbleweed> and I'd do it right now, but I'm late for the pub, so cheers :)
[17:17] <shadeslayer> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1274605
[17:45] <tseliot> cjwatson: I think I have verified all the nvidia and fglrx related bug reports for precise
[18:23] <sarnold> is there a better package than ubuntu-meta for this bug report? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1274380
[19:23] <smagoun> lts
[19:23] <smagoun> er...nm
[20:04] <Noskcaj> pitti, PING. It seems the G-S-T changes are causing issues in ubuntu.
[20:04] <Noskcaj> *xubuntu
[20:30] <Noskcaj> pitti, Nothing is being installed to the binaries, even though we seem to have the same stuff as debian
[21:05] <Noskcaj> Can someone review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gnome-system-tools/regression-fix/+merge/204099 ?
[21:06] <Noskcaj> G-S-T is currently completely broken
[21:22] <jtaylor> thats a bug or: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6846058/
[21:22] <jtaylor> as-needed bug
[21:23] <jtaylor> it finds it doesn't need libtest so it dropsit and its dependency gsl but does not consider that the main function needs it
[21:23] <jtaylor> (that gsl is not linked to cblas is not a bug)
[21:37] <tarpman> Noskcaj: looking at the build log from debian, it installs into debian/gnome-system-tools while in trusty it installs into debian/tmp ... DESTDIR getting lost/mis-set somewhere maybe?
[23:00] <Logan_> so apparently removing gettext macros breaks translations, even if the files still exist :'(
[23:00] <Logan_> does anyone have experience with this?
[23:00] <Logan_> I removed them to make libtoolize work properly during autoreconf so that I could fix FTBFSes on ppc64el
[23:09] <Logan_> infinity: when you get the chance, could you please give me the basic patch I should apply to packages that won't autoreconf? (to enable ppc64el support)


[00:03] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter issue 783 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/04/17/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-783/
[00:11] <Bashing-om> Fridge: Spot check and all checks good.
[00:11] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om
[00:15] <Bashing-om> guiverc: All clean now ? clear now to wipe Gdoc ?
[00:17] <guiverc> yep scrub away Bashing-om
[00:17] <guiverc> & uwn 783 was posted to fb too
[00:17] <Bashing-om> Doing the wipe thing.
[00:34] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do issue 784 // Note that "Ubuntu Podcast" is back casting ! See too: https://ubuntu.social/<EMAIL_ADDRESS>.
[00:38] <guiverc> Yeah noticed that yesterday.. I don't think we can automatically include it unlike last one; no guarantee it'll contain Ubuntu news on every podcast.. but I'll be listening to it anyway (if no summary of what they're discuss is useful for that purpose)
[00:43] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah -- but still named "Ubuntu Podcast" :D
[00:44] <guiverc> I suspected that was mostly for the 'preview' so older listeners notice it & switch across..  We'll have to wait and see  (there maybe no change at all; or only minor... they may not know until they progress anyway!)
[00:48] <Bashing-om> guiverc: As you say - we play ot by ear. But, Wimpy, popey, and marxjohnson - it is going to have a Buntu focus :D
[00:48] <Bashing-om> ot/it*
[00:50] <guiverc> just b/c 100% of presenters are ubuntu members, we can't assume that..
[00:53] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah - will catch the eposodes and go from there.
[07:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: PostgreSQL high availability made charmingly easy @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/postgresql-high-availability
[20:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo: Introducing Linux Matters Podcast(Episode 0) @ https://linuxmatters.sh/0/
[20:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo: Mastodon on My Résumé(Episode 1) @ https://linuxmatters.sh/1/


[05:40] <valorie> I've created a draft of the testing week announcement - @ahoneybun mparillo RikMills - can someone make the links clickable, get an image, etc. and publish
[05:40] <valorie> was jammed with all the RMS/FSF fires
[10:14] <mparillo> LGTM. Fixed minor typos, changed flavors to flavours (I always do that when referring to official flavours).  I noticed you added back my suggestion "(or #kubuntu-devel if it cannot be reproduced on other flavours)". I thought that suggestion was rejected?
[10:15] <mparillo> Interesting (possible Word Press bug). If you make a change, click save draft, and then make another change, the second time, there is no save draft available to click.
[10:16] <mparillo> (so I may not have saved another minor typo and a remaining instance of flavor).
 Hard disk just died on Windows laptop :(
 Time to buy a new HD and install Kubuntu then \o/
 Yay!!!
 ha ha
 silver lining I guess
 have been meaning to duel boot that one anyway, now I have no choice
 The live ISO runs nicely :)
 I've seen some ads on Youtube for something like InstantPC or something like that. Where they're actually selling a Linux USB key specifically targetting oldlaptops with dead harddrives.
 Maybe we should do that
 Official Ubuntu merchandise may come back soonish, so one possibility may be getting flavour keys via there
[12:41] <mparillo> The BIOS will still specify Secure Boot, right? So, if you replace the HDD with an SSD, does it need to be signed? Or does it just work?
 Should work AFAIK. Can always turn off SB if not
 Did not have an issue swapping out HDs on my desktop
[19:08] <valorie> is our story published?
[19:19] <valorie> no, and most of the links are not there or are not linkified
[19:20] <valorie> gotta go for awhile, will take another crack at it when I return
[22:31] <mparillo> Are you sure. I 'linkified' the only reference to a URL I could see ... to the ISO tracker. But I only linked to the base, and because I assume there will be a beta path soon I left in the reminder to  [replace with up-to-date URL when appropriate].
[22:32] <mparillo> Or did you also want a separate paragraph about the Plasma, Apps, Frameworks versions? I think I added some version numbers to the Google doc that was previously shared.
[22:37] <valorie> oh, there was a link to the ubuntu flavors
[22:37] <valorie> and then the url to get the daily
[22:38] <valorie> and yes we'll have another short post about testing the beta
[23:03] <mparillo> You mean in the Google Doc?
 I think I got the link/words correct but could use another review.
[23:19] <mparillo> It looks as if you are still editing, but I clicked preview, and all the links work. But I have 5.21.3 in my HH VM
[23:27] <mparillo> Updated to 5.21.3 and added a link to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs but there is no save button for me.
[23:28] <mparillo> Got it. Saved and exited for the next editor.
[23:32] <valorie> excellent
[23:32] <valorie> maybe I didn't log out, sorry
[23:32] <valorie> thank you marco


[15:13] <mustafa__> helllllooooo
[15:13] <TheNightPhoenix> hello
[15:14] <mustafa__> hi the night
[15:14] <TheNightPhoenix> hi mustafa
[15:15] <mustafa__> excuse me
[15:15] <mustafa__> how can i know whether um working on 64 or 32 ubuntu version ?
[15:15] <TheNightPhoenix> yes
[15:15] <TheNightPhoenix> one minute
[15:16] <mustafa__> tyt
[15:21] <TheNightPhoenix> back
[15:22] <mustafa__> welcome back
[15:22] <TheNightPhoenix> you can try these : on the terminal
[15:22] <TheNightPhoenix> file /sbin/init
[15:22] <TheNightPhoenix> cat /proc/version
[15:22] <mustafa__> one sentence ?
[15:22] <TheNightPhoenix> one of them
[15:22] <TheNightPhoenix> file /sbin/init
[15:23] <TheNightPhoenix> use this
[15:24] <mustafa__> sorry ana nseet kona bngeeb el terminal ezay
[15:24] <mustafa__> :)
[15:24] <TheNightPhoenix> applications > acsisories >
[15:25] <mustafa__>  ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped mustafa@mustafa-HP-Compaq-6910p:~$ ^C
[15:25] <TheNightPhoenix> 32-bit
[15:26] <mustafa__> mmmmmmmm
[15:26] <mustafa__> so i was wrong
[15:26] <mustafa__> my lab top is 64
[15:27] <mustafa__> sure it's abig differance ha ?
[15:28] <mustafa__> ???????
[15:28] <mustafa__> the phonix ?
[15:28] <mustafa__> still there ?
[15:29] <TheNightPhoenix> bk
[15:29] <TheNightPhoenix> sorry had a phone call
[15:30] <TheNightPhoenix> why are u wrong ?
[15:30] <TheNightPhoenix> what are the specs of ur laptop
[15:30] <TheNightPhoenix> ram , procceor
[15:31] <mustafa__> 3 g ram and i don't remember the processor
[15:32] <TheNightPhoenix> hmm
[15:32] <mustafa__> is there some code in terminal to detect whether my labtop is 64 or 32 ?
[15:32] <TheNightPhoenix> almost all of the modern proccessors  have 64 bit archtetctir
[15:33] <TheNightPhoenix> the proccessor can work in 32 or 64 bit modes
[15:33] <TheNightPhoenix> the problem is the amout of ram the proccessor can use in each mode
[15:33] <mustafa__> mmmmmmm
[15:33] <TheNightPhoenix> meaning if u work in  32 bit mod you only can have maximum of 3.4 GB of ram
[15:33] <mustafa__> is thtis only the differance ?
[15:35] <TheNightPhoenix> using 64 bits  the data bus band width is doubled
[15:35] <mustafa__> mmmmm
[15:35] <mustafa__> ok
[15:35] <TheNightPhoenix> did i help
[15:36] <mustafa__> it seems like i have to install another one
[15:36] <mustafa__> sure
[15:36] <mustafa__> thanks for ur time
[15:36] <TheNightPhoenix> any time ur welcome


[10:31] <Avihay> http://9gag.tv/p/a9Olg8/13-dogs-and-1-cat-eating-with-human-hands?ref=fbl9
[10:33] <Avihay> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152913661432744


[00:37] <rick_h_> woot, crossed 200 users that completed the sign in process in bookie
[01:37] <snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations!
[11:32] <snap-l> New keyboard should show up on Friday.
[11:55] <rick_h_> snap-l: yay
[14:12] <snap-l> How's the morning so far?
[14:13] <brousch> busy
[16:05] <brousch> This tablet is such a sexy beast
[16:20] <snap-l> brousch: Rule 34
[16:20] <brousch> heh
[16:20] <brousch> Transformer Infinity
[16:21] <brousch> 1920x1080 on a 10" screen is nice
[16:25] <snap-l> Oh, that's purdy
[16:27] <brousch> And detachable keyboard with like 8 more hours of battery
[17:53] <rick_h_> this is a mighty fine sight http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/8485522775/in/photostream :D
[17:55] <rick_h_> and afternoon, been afk all morning heh
[18:13] <brousch> nice butt
[18:15] <rick_h_> baby got back!
[18:16] <brousch> Did you purchase that machine?
[18:16] <rick_h_> yes, took it home with me
[18:17] <brousch> nice
[18:17] <rick_h_> yea, going to take it down to ATL in a couple weeks and will make for a nice ride /me hopes
[19:02] <rick_h_> brousch: thinking of you https://github.com/jensens/pyramid-gae-tutorial
[19:03] <brousch> heh
[19:03] <brousch> I don't have anything on GAE any more, and Linus leaving makes me more nervous about using it
[19:03] <brousch> I mean Guido
[19:05] <rick_h_> yea
[19:06] <brousch> I've been using Heroku and Linode
[20:35] <jrwren> heroku gets $$$ quick
[20:36] <brousch> Not on the free tier!
[20:36] <rick_h_> yep, but you can tinker with things usually pretty cheap
[20:36] <jrwren> right.
[20:36] <jrwren> and...
[20:36] <jrwren> its a trap.
[20:36] <rick_h_> well, but I do like they get you diong pretty good practices ootb to deploy there
[20:37] <rick_h_> makes it easy to deploy to your own host/etc since you've already done some work there
[20:37] <rick_h_> less of a trap than it seems imo
[20:37] <brousch> Less of a trap than GAE
[21:01] <snap-l> Love it when I break code that I thought I fixed.
[21:30] <rick_h_> snap-l: just means you missed a test :)
[21:31] <snap-l> Um, sure. Tests.
[21:34] <snap-l> Problem is it's crapping out when I'm doing a sqlalchemy query.
[21:34] <snap-l> TypeError: "'NoneType' object is not iterable"
[21:35] <snap-l> Which is the null-pointer-exception of Python
[21:45] <snap-l> I am about 4 seconds from snapping this keyboard in half.
[21:53] <brousch> vid or it didn't happen
[21:55] <snap-l> Heh
[21:55] <snap-l> Well, apparently there's a little catch-22 here
[21:55] <snap-l> Can't order on a field that returns nothing
[21:56] <snap-l> hm, this could prove interesting
[22:00] <snap-l> OK, here's a conundrum:
[22:00] <snap-l> I'm looking for a record, ordered by a contact date
[22:00] <snap-l> if the record isn't there, sqlalchemy bombs because it can't order on a field that isn't there
[22:01] <snap-l> but if it's there, I want it to pick only the earliest record.
[22:02] <snap-l> Wondering if I should just do the query, then sort the results afterward.
[22:02] <snap-l> but I feel sqlalchemy should just return None, not an error
[22:03] <snap-l> hmmm.
[22:06] <widox> snap-l: is sqlalchemy secreltly ordering on the data after its returned??
[22:07] <widox> seems like it should be adding it to the SQL query
[22:07] <snap-l> I don't think it's adding it to the query
[22:08] <snap-l> I'm dumb: haven't been looking at log files.
[22:08] <rick_h_droid> yea as long as you order by before you call all() it should be fine
[22:08] <snap-l> I'm calling first()
[22:08] <snap-l> because I only one the first result
[22:09] <snap-l> Should I use all() instead, and then just pop the first result?
[22:09] <rick_h_droid> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L159
[22:10] <rick_h_droid> oh well s/all/first
[22:10] <rick_h_droid> but don't use one() since that expects a record and tosses an exc if not found
[22:11] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/bFnz2azlSC4I9yYcz7bd/
[22:11] <rick_h_droid> yea need to catch res and check for none
[22:12] <snap-l> Then I lose the ordering
[22:12] <rick_h_droid> can't just unpack when you can get a none response
[22:12] <snap-l> so I'll have to sort on the last contact date outside of the query.
[22:12] <rick_h_> no, sec moving to computer so I can reply better
[22:13] <snap-l> kk
[22:13] <snap-l> Oh, is the problem the tuple?
[22:13] <rick_h_> ? CustomerContact.last_contact_date. CustomerContact.contact_embargo_days
[22:13] <rick_h_> why is there a . in there?
[22:14] <snap-l> This is in the model.
[22:14] <snap-l> It's a manager
[22:15] <snap-l> I think I know what the problem is. I think the tuple unpacking is what's screwing me up
[22:15] <snap-l> going to use a list instead
[22:15] <snap-l> and see if that makes it happy.
[22:15] <rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/889/ seems to make more sense to me
[22:15] <rick_h_> right, you need to check if the query returned None (no results found) first
[22:15] <rick_h_> then unpack
[22:16] <snap-l> Yeah, that's where I ran into problems
[22:17] <rick_h_droid> party
[22:18] <snap-l> LIke I said, SQLAlchemy needs a "you're being stupid" exception
[22:18] <rick_h_droid> lol
[22:19] <snap-l> I need a magical thwacking
[22:22] <widox> snap-l: can you do something like SELECT MIN(contact_date), contact_embargo_days FROM blarg WHERE email = email GROUP BY contract_embargo_days?
[22:22] <widox> instead or ordering, then taking the first one
[22:23] <widox> maybe sqlalchemy does this...
[22:23] <snap-l> widox: Possibly, but I think I have it sorted.
[22:24] <snap-l> lesson for the day: Python really doesn't like unpacking None. ;)


[00:32]  * thumper attempts to suspend again
[00:33] <lifeless> sinzui: I'm going to work on the moderate thing
[00:34] <thumper> yay, it worked
[00:37] <lifeless> thumper: ping
[00:37] <thumper> lifeless: hey
[00:37] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/633758 - can has qa?
[00:38]  * thumper gets on it
[00:38] <lifeless> (oh, and goo dmorning)
[00:39] <thumper> morning
[00:39] <thumper> my talk went well I think
[00:41] <lifeless> thumper: cool
[00:41] <lifeless> what was it ?
[00:41] <thumper> qa done
[00:41] <thumper> I was giving a talk to second year software engineering students about our development process
[00:42] <lifeless> one of the errors last night on BB : bzrlib.errors.InvalidHttpResponse: Invalid http response for https://xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net/bazaar/: Unable to handle http code 502: Bad Gateway
[00:42] <thumper> a one hour lecture
[00:42] <thumper> ?!?
[00:42] <lifeless> thumper: 'we throw stuff at the wall and hope it works'
[00:42] <lifeless> thumper: the 502 is probably an edge deploy.
[00:42] <lifeless> thumper: I wonder what bzr version it is, that its using edge
[00:44]  * lifeless waits for https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/launchpad-stable-deployment.txt to update
[00:57] <lifeless> sinzui: is there a list with lots of messags that I can look at the moderation page with ?
[01:11] <lifeless> Edwin-afk: / jcsackett: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/597738 needs QA for the latest landing (rev 11547)
[02:08] <lifeless> thumper: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/cp/+merge/35764
[02:08] <lifeless> thumper: No new code, and I've marked up all the user facing / risk mitigating/correcting changes.
[02:08] <lifeless> thumper: I'd like to get this through ec2 today to ask for a CP on monday.
[04:46] <lifeless> thumper: ping?
[04:47] <thumper> lifeless: hey
[04:47] <lifeless> could you tag your review release-critical please?
[04:47] <lifeless> (thanks for doing it)
[04:49] <wgrant> When's the next release?
[04:49] <thumper> lifeless: so this is part of the "try to release more often?"
[04:50] <thumper> just trying to work out your rationale
[04:54] <thumper> lifeless: my thinking is based around marking it "release-critical" where it clearly isn't just to cross some 'T's and dot some 'I's seems stupid
[04:55] <thumper> if we are changing the process, we should just do it
[04:55] <thumper> and not require this fake stamp just for the hell of it
[04:59] <lifeless> thumper: yes
[04:59] <lifeless> thumper: I suggest; we do this under the current process, and simultaneously point out that the current process is more onerous than the proposed, approved RFWTAD process
[05:00] <lifeless> thumper: and so qa-ok'd stuff gets a free pass for CP's.
[05:00] <lifeless> thumper: we'll need to tweak some toolchain stuff though - at least for the moment we *need* release-critical stamps to get past PQM.
[05:00] <lifeless> and PQM isn't really setup to check 'has been qa-oked'.
[05:00] <lifeless> wgrant: three weeks
[05:00]  * thumper sighs
[05:01] <thumper> lifeless: so you need the rc to get pqm to land it?
[05:01] <lifeless> wgrant: yes
[05:01] <lifeless> bah
[05:01] <lifeless> thumper: yes
[05:01] <wgrant> Hm.
[05:01] <thumper> ok, I'll stamp it
[05:02] <wgrant> There are revs in devel that shouldn't go out onto prod, AFAICT...
[05:02] <lifeless> wgrant: yes, my branch isn't all of devel
[05:02] <lifeless> wgrant: its all the ones passed by the qatagger
[05:02] <wgrant> eg. r11552 enabled some unfinished UI on prod.
[05:02] <wgrant> The bug doesn't have a tag, so I don't know its QA status.
[05:02] <lifeless> wgrant: I'm doing up to and including 11546
[05:03] <lifeless> thats all that has been fully QA'd.
[05:03] <wgrant> Aha.
[05:03] <wgrant> Everything up to there is fairly sane, IIRC. Sounds good.
[05:06] <wallyworld> thumper: ping?
[05:06] <thumper> wallyworld: aye
[05:06] <wallyworld> just want to check something....
[05:07] <wallyworld> anyone can submit a merge proposal, right?
[05:07] <thumper> wallyworld: as long as they can see the source and target branches, yes
[05:08] <wallyworld> ok. there's some ambiguity with some of the comments in a test
[05:08] <wallyworld> just wanted to confirm, thanks
[05:08] <wallyworld> i might skype you later if i need to discuss
[05:19] <jtv> StevenK: did you ever figure out that broken test?
[05:23] <StevenK> jtv: Which one?
[05:24] <jtv> StevenK: the one you suspected fakelibrarian of
[05:24] <StevenK> jtv: I didn't investigate it, sorry
[05:25] <jtv> StevenK: Oh, I thought it was what put db-devel into testfix so I thought it'd be a big thing.
[05:32] <jtv> lifeless: are you familiar with LaunchpadScriptLayer?
[05:33] <lifeless> No, but i can be
[05:33] <lifeless> why?
[05:33] <jtv> It combines ZopelessLayer and LaunchpadLayer, and adds one thing:
[05:33] <jtv>         provideUtility(TestMailBox(), IMailBox)
[05:34] <jtv> There's a 4-year-old XXX from Francis saying it should be registered via ZCML in LaunchpadFunctionalLayer.
[05:35] <jtv> Sorry; the comment says it _is_ registered via ZCML in the LaunchpadFunctionalLayer.
[05:35] <jtv> Anyway, this smells of installFixture to me.
[05:36] <jtv> I was thinking tests that use this could use ZopelessDatabaseLayer instead, and install fixtures for the test mailbox and if needed, the fake librarian.
[05:40] <jtv> (Or if they need the real librarian, they could use LaunchpadLayer—though that provides memcached which I'm not sure scripts are currently supposed to access)
[05:41] <lifeless> so
[05:41] <lifeless> I'd like to move all our 'layers' to use fixtures, decoupling stuff
[05:41] <lifeless> specifically
[05:41] <lifeless> lp:python-fixtures
[05:41] <lifeless> I need to tweak the API a little more though
[05:47] <lifeless> jtv: 16:41 < lifeless> so
[05:47] <lifeless> 16:41 < lifeless> I'd like to move all our 'layers' to use fixtures, decoupling stuff
[05:47] <lifeless> 16:41 < lifeless> specifically
[05:47] <lifeless> 16:41 < lifeless> lp:python-fixtures
[05:49] <jtv> lifeless: thanks for repeating—my IRC connections are extra-weird today.  Yes, fixtures instead of layers would be good.  I've gotten used to reserving setUp for that sort of thing—as opposed to the creation of repetitive test data.
[05:49] <poolie> hello jtv!
[05:49] <jtv> hi poolie!
[05:49] <jtv> How's things?
[05:50] <poolie> good; i thought my drive had died but it was just a loose cable
[05:50] <poolie> though it's a bit annoying to lose time to carefully working this out
[05:50] <jtv> Life's little rollercoasters
[05:50] <jtv> I'm _hoping_ I've got a similar problem with my backup drive. :)
[05:51] <poolie> how do i provoke an oops again?
[05:51] <lifeless> poolie: do something wrong
[05:51] <lifeless> poolie: :P
[05:51] <lifeless> poolie: ++oops++
[05:52] <poolie> ah, and it appears in the comment
[05:52] <poolie> thanks!
[05:52] <poolie> and i see the memcache feature was used! yay
[05:52] <lifeless> poolie: it was ?
[05:52] <lifeless> oh yes, it will get evaluated
[05:52] <poolie> according to the comment in view-source:https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/ it was queried
[05:52] <poolie> i don't know if it had any effect
[06:00] <lifeless> yes, any page that uses memcache will query it
[06:15] <lifeless> back later
[08:25] <henninge> jtv: I have converted the import code but still some tests are failing.
[08:25] <jtv> henninge: what problems are you hitting?
[08:26] <henninge> jtv: let me have a closer look, 'll get back to you in a few minutes.
[08:31] <henninge> jtv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/495141/
[08:31] <henninge> jtv: I have not yet worked with Karma.
[08:31] <henninge> jtv: Is that something updateTranslation does, too, which I need to do manually now?
[08:32] <jtv> henninge: shall I run you through the conceptual model of karma?
[08:32] <jtv> What's happening here is that the karma we assign has changed a bit
[08:32] <henninge> jtv: that would be nice
[08:33] <jtv> In a nutshell, karma can be assigned in various contexts (somewhat similar to our queue entries, really).
[08:33] <henninge> (only 5 failing tests in lp.translations, btw)
[08:33] <jtv> Additionally, each assignment of karma is in a particular category.
[08:34] <jtv> In the database, you might thus have a karma record that says something like "henning earned 5 karma points today in category marking-a-bug-as-fix-released, for the gim."
[08:34] <jtv> updateTranslation assigns karma.
[08:34] <jtv> It does so in Mysterious Ways.
[08:35] <henninge> ;-)
[08:35] <jtv> I did not try to reconstruct and emulate exactly how, when & what.
[08:35] <henninge> but it is still done by ... sumitSuggestion/approve/... ?
[08:35] <jtv> Instead, we now have a model that's relatively easy to track (see POTMsgSet, though I added an implementation method to POTemplate)
[08:35] <jtv> Yes.
[08:36] <jtv> Well, not "still" since those messages are new.  :)
[08:36] <jtv> *methods
[08:36] <henninge> yes, but they are the replacements for updateTranslation
[08:36] <jtv> Off the top of my head, we award 3 kinds of karma:
[08:36] <jtv>  * Submitting a suggestion.
[08:36] <jtv>  * Reviewing.
[08:36] <jtv>  * Having your suggestion approved by someone else.
[08:37] <henninge> jtv: ok, I see two of those in the traceback
[08:37] <jtv> Those are now neatly separated, with rules like "don't assign review/approved karma for someone approving their own translations."
[08:37] <henninge> where are they defined?
[08:37] <jtv> Look for awardKarma in potmsgset.py
[08:38] <jtv> One in submitSuggestion, and two in approveSuggestion.
[08:38] <jtv> Come to think of it, I think I forgot to do that in approveAsDiverged!
[08:39] <jtv> And clearCurrentTranslation.  That's review karma for the reviewer, I think (assuming that there really are suggestions).
[08:41] <henninge> ok
[08:42] <henninge> maybe I need to add that. I use approveAsDiverged in the import if the incumbent ;) message was diverged.
[08:44] <jtv> Then that should probably award karma in the same way approveSuggestion does: only if the message was not previously current and the reviewer is not the translator.
[08:49] <jtv> henninge: maybe updateTranslation would be a fit for what you're doing.  That also follows the "if it's diverged, and the new translation is not identical to the shared one, keep diverged" rule.
[08:50] <henninge> jtv: oh, I have to add the "is not identical" ...
[08:52] <henninge> jtv: and that is not something "approveAsDiverged" does?
[08:52] <henninge> diverged = suggestion.is_diverged
[08:52] <henninge> jtv: ^ Can a suggestion actually be diverged?
[09:04] <mrevell> Hi
[09:10] <adeuring> good morning
[09:19] <jtv> henninge: a suggestion can be diverged _in another template_.
[09:20] <jtv> henninge: as for approveAsDiverged: that method is for explicitly diverging a message.  It always diverges (except where you're actually trying to set the shared translation as a diverged translation).
[09:20] <jtv> but setCurrentTranslation checks if the current message is diverged and if so, maintains divergence.  (Again of course, except if the new translation is identical to the current shared one)
[09:27] <henninge> jtv: I don't like setCurrentTranslations because it expects strings ... ;(
[09:28] <henninge> which is kind of dumb, considering that I already have a message, and msgstr objects and all that.
[09:28] <henninge> that's why I'd prefer using approve
[09:28] <henninge> approveSuggestion
[09:28] <jtv> henninge: shouldn't be that hard to change—it's only used by tests, and other methods that can look up the POTranslation objects.
[09:29] <jtv> I'm not saying you have to use it, but have a look if it serves your needs otherwise.
[09:30] <henninge> jtv: well, "approveSuggestion" is really only a wrapper around setCurrentTranslation
[09:30] <henninge> plus karma assignment
[09:31] <henninge> jtv: So, I guess I don't need to check for divergence - submit suggestion will DTRT?
[09:32] <jtv> submitSuggestion can't
[09:33] <jtv> But I see what you mean—approveSuggestion maintains divergence.
[09:34] <jtv> I do see one other thing that approveSuggestion probably should do: disable a diverged message in the same pofile that may be masking the suggestion.
[09:35] <jtv> It shortcuts the case where the suggestion is already current.  It probably shouldn't, though of course not shortcutting does mean that the karma assignment needs a bit of extra care.
[09:36] <jtv> But yes, this means that in principle approveSuggestion is good enough for imports.  No need for approveAsDiverged.
[10:07] <jml> rockstar, https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BetterPrivacy, https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BugzillaComponents and https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFarmScalability all spring to mind
[11:26] <henninge> jtv: I think approveSuggestion may have gotten the Karma handling wrong.
[11:26] <henninge> jtv: this is from the failing test: http://paste.ubuntu.com/495203/
[11:29] <jtv> henninge: I can see how that's different from what approveSuggestion does, but how is what approveSuggestion does wrong?
[11:29] <henninge> jtv: well, different from documentation == wrong
[11:29] <henninge> ;-)
[11:29] <jtv> This pastebin leaves me with the impression that updateTranslation gets it wrong
[11:30] <henninge> that is possible
[11:31] <henninge> jtv: should a translator not get karma twice -- once for suggesting and once for suggestion being approved?
[11:31] <jtv> a translator, yes
[11:31] <jtv> but if it's the same person approving that same translation?
[11:31] <jtv> That seemed wrong to me.
[11:32] <henninge> jtv: so, what is karma trying to show?
[11:32] <jtv> It is trying to reward people for doing useful things.
[11:33] <jtv> I'm trying to find something wrong with my own earlier reasoning, but not finding anything so far.
[11:34] <jtv> Yes, it does mean that a reviewer can hope to gain more karma from translating in translation mode—_if_ they can get those suggestions reviewed by someone else.
[11:34] <jtv> I don't think that's a bad thing.
[11:34] <henninge> A translator that translates 10 strings that are all approved by a reviewer will get twice as much karma as a reviewer that enters the same translations directly.
[11:35] <jtv> I think that's actually rewarding good behaviour.
[11:35] <jtv> At first glance it seems to increase the risk of those translations staying unapproved.  But the author doesn't get the extra karma until they are.
[11:36] <jtv> So a proper, well-motivated karma whore will try to get them reviewed.
[11:36] <henninge> In total, a suggested-approved translation will deal out three times as much karma as a directly-approved will.
[11:37] <jtv> To different people.
[11:37] <henninge> jtv: I am just finding reasons, trying to understand. I am not against your reasoning.
[11:37] <jtv> That's fine.
[11:37] <henninge> So I should update the test.
[11:37] <jtv> I think so, yes.
[11:38] <jtv> BTW dogfood is being upgraded to lucid.  It'll take about an hour.
[11:39] <henninge> So far, imported translation would give the uploader "translationsuggestionapproved" karma, now they will get "translationsuggestionadded" karma.
[11:39] <henninge> Are they weighed differently?
[11:39] <jtv> Don't know.
[11:40]  * henninge consults launchpad_dev
[11:42] <henninge> jtv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/495216/
[11:43] <jtv> henninge: thanks for digging that up!
[11:43] <henninge> looks like we have some more karma actions ...
[11:43] <jtv> BTW another way of looking at the current karma design is, "karma shouldn't reward people for joining a translation team just to translate."
[12:04] <deryck> Morning, all.
[12:14] <jml> deryck, good morning
[12:26] <jml> I'm going to head out to Foyles and see if I can pick up a book on queueing theory
[14:41] <jml> hello
[14:45] <bigjools> does the .dev instance run with multiple request threads?
[14:49] <salgado> bigjools, yes
[14:50] <bigjools> salgado: cool thanks
[14:51] <bigjools> now I have a fighting chance of re-creating my concurrency issue
[15:05] <bigjools> salgado: do you have any clue how I could write a test case that simulates simultaneous requests in 2 threads?
[15:06] <salgado> bigjools, I think the test suite runs single threaded
[15:06] <bigjools> yeah, that's why I asked :)
[15:09] <jml> bigjools, I guess it all depends on how the test browser works
[15:10] <bigjools> jml: I've only ever seen it manage single-threaded stuff
[15:11] <bigjools> jml: I've re-created an issue locally where I need to bash the copy button on the PPA copy page as fast as I can
[15:11] <jml> bigjools, well, I don't know how it works. It might just be that all you need to do is spawn two threads each of which has its own test browser
[15:12] <jml> bigjools, hmm.
[15:12] <jml> bigjools, in that case, you might not even need to worry about the test browser
[15:12] <bigjools> jml: that's one way but it seems as though it might not be deterministic
[15:12] <jml> bigjools, you are using threads, kiss determinism goodbye
[15:12] <bigjools> that's why I said "simulate" in my original question :)
[15:13] <jml> bigjools, then what's the problem with spawning two threads and using the test browser?
[15:13] <jml> bigjools, or, actually
[15:13] <jml> bigjools, you don't need the test browser, you just need to have instantiated view objects pointing to the same store
[15:13] <bigjools> I'm starting to think that a test case is not worth it
[15:13] <jml> bigjools, hang on
[15:13] <jml> bigjools, is this for debugging the problem or writing a test?
[15:13] <bigjools> a test
[15:13] <bigjools> I know what the problem is, I think
[15:14] <bigjools> the two transactions don't clash at all, so don't trigger a serialization issue
[15:14] <bigjools> but the checks that are made work once one of them is committed
[15:14] <jml> bigjools, otp
[15:14] <bigjools> so I have an evil plan to make them clash some how
[15:15] <bigjools> ok
[15:32] <rockstar> jml, did you see my LEP?
[15:33] <jml> rockstar, I saw that it exists. still otp.
[15:35] <rockstar> jml, ack.
[15:52] <jml> bigjools, do you know off the top of your head what times the Walter de Cantelupe is closed on Sundays?
[15:54] <bigjools> jml: late
[15:54] <bigjools> usually ~11 I think
[15:54] <bigjools> but if you're going to be late I'd call and let him know
[15:55] <jml> bigjools, istr Martin saying that it's closed for some time during the afternoon
[15:55] <jml> bigjools, I'll be arriving at ~6pm
[15:56] <bigjools> jml: I'd call him then, yes it is closed in the afternoons, I can't remember what time it opens
[15:56] <jml> bigjools, will do.
[15:56] <jml> bigjools, thanks
[15:57] <bigjools> np
[16:20] <jml> grr.
[16:42] <jml> Do you know what would make most technology better?
[16:42] <jml> Actually working.
[17:14] <jml> rockstar, I just scribbled all over https://dev.launchpad.net/Code/MergeQueues/LEP
[17:14] <jml> rockstar, basically adding more details in the requirements.
[17:14] <rockstar> jml, great, I'll take a look.
[17:20] <rockstar> jml, ah, yeah, most of those details we've already addressed in my notes at https://dev.launchpad.net/Code/MergeQueues but I'm happy to LEPify them.
[17:21] <jml> rockstar, yeah. I see the notes cover similar ground in story format.
[17:21] <jml> rockstar,
[17:22] <jml> rockstar, but I want to get it down in a requirements format
[17:22] <rockstar> jml, absolutely.  abentley and I were just going over the recipe LEP and reviewing what else needs to be done, so I'm identifying what is important about a LEP.
[17:23] <jml> rockstar, cool.
[17:24] <jml> rockstar, also, I'm really keen to see thoughts on the full cycle of any given feature: how do people find out about it; how does one use it for the very first time; how does one know it's safe to try out; what do the inner cycles look like; how does one  stop using it? etc
[17:24] <rockstar> jml, yeah, and I think we're going to identify much of that with our UI mockups.
[17:24] <jml> rockstar, agreed
[17:24] <rockstar> (I have a list of them I need to do)
[17:25] <jml> rockstar, it's easy to let UI mockups focus on the inner bits of the workflow rather than a more broad context, so just flagging now
[17:26] <rockstar> jml, yeah, I actually like to address the more broad context in UI mockups.  They should be a general idea, not the final UI.
[17:26] <jml> rockstar, also, I noticed on your notes page that you're thinking of having something on the branch page that says the branch isn't managed by a queue
[17:26] <rockstar> The final UI gets sorted as you actually implement the feature and find out what works.
[17:26] <jml> rockstar, for a project that uses feature branches, that's going to be irrelevant for most branches.
[18:01]  * gmb EoWs. Night folks.
[19:35] <lifeless> bac: hi, around?
[19:36] <bac> hi lifeless
[19:36] <lifeless> rev 11552 on stable
[19:36] <lifeless> I'm not clear if that is ok to deploy to lpnet now, or not.
[19:38] <bac> lifeless: b/c it is qa-untestable or b/c of pre-requisite branches
[19:38] <lifeless> because of the description
[19:38] <lifeless> 'show xx on lpnet'
[19:38] <lifeless> I don't know if you intend that to wait for the next release
[19:38] <lifeless> or if showing it on Monday would be ok.
[19:39] <bac> lifeless: Monday is great
[19:39] <lifeless> ok, cool
[19:39] <lifeless> we're not qa'd all the way up to it, but as things move forward...
[19:39] <bac> lifeless: we should have rolled it in 10.09 but it slipped my mind
[19:39] <lifeless> Ursinha-lunch: hiya
[19:39] <lifeless> bac: feature flags will help :)
[19:39] <bac> lifeless: yes, they just weren't ready at the time...
[19:42] <bac> lifeless: why do you do the endwith test at line 27 of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/registry/+merge/35774
[19:43] <lifeless> completeness
[19:43] <bac> lifeless: but when would it not pass?
[19:43] <lifeless> oh ahh
[19:44] <lifeless> thats a bug, I meant to put %3f or whatever in there.
[19:44] <lifeless> I'll come back to it, its already in ec2 land - thanks for noticing.
[19:44] <bac> ok, i wasn't sure if it was a bug or you were doing something clever
[19:45] <lifeless> very very clever
[19:45] <lifeless> so clever you put a tail on it and call it a ferret
[20:27] <Ursinha> lifeless, hi
[20:38] <lifeless> Ursinha: hi there
[20:38] <lifeless> uhm, /me pages in
[20:38] <lifeless> Ursinha: oh right, tagger stuff - how goes it? Anything blocking you?
[20:45] <Ursinha> lifeless, I'm not blocked on anything right now
[20:46] <Ursinha> lifeless, more trying to figure out how to solve the mess unique branches for several bugs introduced to the scenario :)
[20:48] <lifeless> heh, sorry ;)
[20:57] <lifeless> grah
[20:57] <lifeless> ec2 fail
[20:57] <lifeless>  File "./test_on_merge.py", line 50, in setup_test_database
[20:57] <lifeless>    con = psycopg2.connect('dbname=template1')
[20:57] <lifeless> psycopg2.OperationalError: could not connect to server: No such file or directory
[20:57] <lifeless>        Is the server running locally and accepting
[20:57] <lifeless>        connections on Unix domain socket "/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?
[21:55] <lifeless> ok, is the AMI bust or something?
[21:56] <lifeless> I'm getting pg not connected errors consistently on ec2land
[21:56] <lifeless> mars: ^
[21:56] <lifeless> # Run all tests. test_on_merge.py takes care of setting up the
[21:56] <lifeless> # database.
[21:56] <lifeless> /var/launchpad/test/bin/py -t ./test_on_merge.py -vv "--subunit -vvv"
[21:56] <lifeless> Traceback (most recent call last):
[21:56] <lifeless> ...
[21:56] <lifeless>  File "./test_on_merge.py", line 50, in setup_test_database
[21:56] <lifeless>    con = psycopg2.connect('dbname=template1')
[21:56] <lifeless> psycopg2.OperationalError: could not connect to server: No such file or directory
[21:56] <lifeless>        Is the server running locally and accepting
[21:56] <lifeless>        connections on Unix domain socket "/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?
[22:51] <maxb> What is the status of Python 2.6 / datacentre lucid upgrades these days?
[22:51] <Ursinha> lifeless, help me with something here
[22:53] <Ursinha> lifeless, latest deployed revision from stable on lpnet was 11515, now the script states it's 11546
[22:54] <Ursinha> while True: head -> desk
[22:58] <lifeless> Ursinha: heh
[22:58] <Ursinha> lifeless, no, not funny
[22:58] <lifeless> Ursinha: looking at stable branch ?
[22:58] <Ursinha> deployments.check_status() is returning that revision as latest deployed
[22:58] <lifeless> thats right
[22:58] <Ursinha> production-stable
[22:58] <lifeless> its looking at the branch
[22:58] <lifeless> its correct; it goes live Monday
[22:59] <Ursinha> wait, what goes live Monday
[22:59] <lifeless> check LaunchpadProductionStatus
[22:59]  * Ursinha looks
[23:00] <lifeless> jelmer: you need to update that page now you've landed your branch on production-devel
[23:00] <lifeless> Ursinha: under 'requested cherrypicks'
[23:00] <Ursinha> lifeless, oh
[23:01] <Ursinha> so production-stable already has that
[23:01] <Ursinha> ?
[23:01] <lifeless> yes
[23:01] <Ursinha> ah
[23:01] <Ursinha> *whew*
[23:01] <lifeless> working as designed
[23:01] <Ursinha> I was about to kill someone
[23:01] <lifeless> its not live on the appserver because doing it friday isn't the smartest thing for a big merge like that
[23:01] <lifeless> not when we were low-losa to boot
[23:02] <lifeless> jcsackett: ping
[23:02] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/597738
[23:02] <lifeless> thats the next blocking unqa'd commit
[23:02] <jcsackett> the one for bugs?
[23:02] <lifeless> jcsackett: rev 11547
[23:02] <lifeless> jcsackett: but the process looks at a whole bug, not one branch-for-it.
[23:03] <lifeless> jcsackett: its qa-needstesting at the moment, if the bugs bits are doing what they should on staging/edge, please qa-ok it
[23:03] <Ursinha> do that and I will run the script
[23:03] <jcsackett> i can ping EdwinGrubbs about the branch he landed to QA; the remaining hasn't reached fix-committed yet. Blueprints should be through buildbot shortly.
[23:04] <lifeless> jcsackett: 11547 is what I care about right now.
[23:04] <Ursinha> jcsackett, so it's part of a larger fix?
[23:04] <lifeless> in general its a bit odd to do what this bug is doing
[23:04] <sinzui> I QAed bugs yesterday and reported bugs.
[23:04] <lifeless> sinzui: so should it be qa-bad ?
[23:04] <sinzui> no
[23:04] <sinzui> it is still an improvement
[23:04] <lifeless> so its qa-ok?
[23:04] <EdwinGrubbs> jcsackett: my branch was qa'ed fine. I didn't update the bug since it is is just going back to qa-needstesting when the next bugtask is completed.
[23:04] <sinzui> yes
[23:05] <Ursinha> cool
[23:05] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: it needs to go to qa-ok to deploy
[23:05] <jcsackett> EdwinGrubbs: okay, i thought you already had done that.
[23:05] <lifeless> otherwise it blocks all commits after it
[23:05] <Ursinha> EdwinGrubbs, you can tag the bug when your branch lands
[23:05]  * sinzui found to pre-existing issues that must be fixed to say bridging-the-gap is done
[23:05]  * jcsackett is confused about the QA process.
[23:05] <EdwinGrubbs> oh, I forgot about that.
[23:05] <jcsackett> are we not supposed to use needstesting anymore?
[23:05] <lifeless> jcsackett: yes, you should. You should also test asap.
[23:06] <Ursinha> jcsackett, yes, of course :) but you're saying qa-needstesting for a branch
[23:06] <sinzui> Wake up, QA
[23:06] <lifeless> jcsackett: https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/launchpad-stable-deployment.txt
[23:06] <Ursinha> you landed a branch that fixes your bugtask in that bug, that lands, it's marked qa-needstesting for your landing
[23:06] <sinzui> notice staging updates QA...QA is the fastest way to unblock the team
[23:06] <lifeless> or on edge
[23:06] <jcsackett> okay, that all jives with what i thought. have caught bits and pieces of conversations today that have left me off kilter. :-P
[23:06] <EdwinGrubbs> jcsackett: I just treated this bug differently since it has multiple bugtasks. I didn't think about how it needs to go to qa-ok temporarily even though it will go to qa-needstesting when the next branch lands.
[23:06] <lifeless> because edge runs stable
[23:06] <sinzui> We were 3 hours from exceeding our limits 3 days ago
[23:07] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: I would have done multiple bugs for this thing
[23:07] <lifeless> because the work going on in each one is different
[23:07] <EdwinGrubbs> yes, hindsight is 20/20
[23:08] <lifeless> never too late to change ;)
[23:09] <lifeless> anyhow yes, this isn't a big issue
[23:09] <lifeless> we're changing process
[23:09] <lifeless> so we're going to have muscle memory to unlearn and so on
[23:09] <jcsackett> i'll keep this in mind tomorrow--the blueprints task should be ready to qa then.
[23:10] <sinzui> I think the registry team can take ownership of EmailAddress if the foundations team have given up using the table for SSO
[23:12] <lifeless> wgrant: please qa https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/564491
[23:12] <lifeless> wgrant: and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/566339
[23:13] <Ursinha> lifeless, so I cannot mark that bug as qa-ok?
[23:14] <lifeless> Ursinha: I don't know
[23:14] <lifeless> Ursinha: hang on, which bug :)
[23:14] <Ursinha> hehe
[23:14] <Ursinha> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/597738
[23:14] <Ursinha> the one holding the script
[23:14] <lifeless> jcsackett: so
[23:15] <lifeless> nvm
[23:15] <lifeless> Ursinha: yes, sinzui said its ok
[23:15] <Ursinha> hehe, cool
[23:15]  * sinzui just changed is since his team are too frightened to say it is okay
[23:16] <Ursinha> oh, I've done that too
[23:16] <lifeless> Ursinha: I expect it to stop at 11556
[23:16] <Ursinha> let's see
[23:16] <sinzui> Ursinha, while I promised flacoste that I would let my team do QA, I need to schedule work. I qa every morning, even weekends, and I mark something bad if it really is bad
[23:16] <Ursinha> even weekends
[23:17] <sinzui> Ursinha, The delay is waiting for a registry developer to do his part
[23:17] <sinzui> I have to review projects on the weekend too
[23:17] <Ursinha> lifeless, that's correct, it stopped at 11556
[23:19] <lifeless> Ursinha: still, thats another good batch of revs to land
[23:19] <Ursinha> yeag
[23:19] <Ursinha> yeah
[23:20] <lifeless> sinzui: all teams are going to have to tune their processes, I wouldn't stress about it
[23:20] <lifeless> sinzui: it'll become very clear the shorter the pipeline to production gets
[23:21] <lifeless> sinzui: and once we stop edge autodeployments in favour of QA on stagingqa
[23:24] <sinzui> lifeless, I think there is resistance to interrupting a task. When you are coding the a branch waiting for to QA your work, you must be will to stop coding when that work come to QA. Our team hit the QA limit twice last release Bac had to remind me that staging updated a few days ago so that he cold move a card
[23:28] <lifeless> sinzui: that makes sense to me; but the price for avoiding that interrupt is a massive team wide interrupt every month, which everyone agrees they like less
[23:30] <sinzui> As you can image, I have a very set pattern in the morning, lunch, and evening. I look like I am on top of things, but I just schedule repetitive tasks like QA and question every few hours
[23:31] <lifeless> sinzui: I think if everyone looked for QAable stuff at the start of work, after lunch, and before signing off, we'd be in good shape
[23:32] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=qa-needstesting,qa-bad
[23:33] <lifeless> thats one thing for every 2 people: not terrible, but not brilliant either
[23:33] <lifeless> jcsackett: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/576757
[23:34] <jcsackett> lifeless: qaing it as we speak, actually. :-P
[23:34] <sinzui> lifeless, we are doing that one now
[23:34] <lifeless> \o/
[23:34] <sinzui> jinx
[23:34] <lifeless> is there some other channel where you coordinate this?
[23:35] <sinzui> lifeless, @lp-registry explaining how I pick a victim to test with can be a delicate subject
[23:35] <jcsackett> lifeless: when i have no earthly idea how to set up the conditions to test i bug sinzui in another channel. :-)
[23:35] <sinzui> #lp-registry
[23:35] <lifeless> public or private?
[23:36] <sinzui> lifeless, private
[23:37] <Ursinha> I'm heading for the weekend
[23:37] <Ursinha> will return later
[23:37] <lifeless> sinzui: I'll hang out there if its ok; I may every now and then point stuff to this channel (I think we do way to much on the quiet). But you can tell me if I'm wrong :)
[23:37] <lifeless> Ursinha-afk: ciao
[23:43] <lifeless> Question:+huge-vocabulary 50.67 <-99% under
[23:43] <lifeless> wheee
[23:43] <jcsackett> alright, that's both of the bugs i can hit qa'ed. off to the weekend.
[23:43] <lifeless> ciao
[23:43] <jcsackett> g'night.