[00:08] <bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, no natty yet.  wow. :P
[00:09] <robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, in 38 minutes... I've been running it in a VM though
[00:10] <bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, i did that for a while in previous releases, but with all these graphics changes, VM's make testing and seeing the changes tough
[00:10] <bcurtiswx> like having unity change to default, or the switch eventually to wayland
[00:15] <RAOF> pitti: Bryce has some mesa packaging changes for Wayland, and I was going to roll them up.  That's “sometime this week”, though, so I could do mesa now as space is tight.
[00:39]  * robert_ancell reboots, you may or may not see me back here soon
[00:42] <RAOF> That seems like it's worked ok :)
[00:42] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I see what you mean about crashing... compiz crashes on startup
[00:43] <rickspencer3> :/
[00:44] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, under Unity, or just alone?
[00:44] <robert_ancell> bonus feature of the menubar being able to drag the window - you can work witthout a window manager
[00:44] <robert_ancell> it's just in standard gnome, but I didn't seem to have a unity option in gdm
[00:44] <rickspencer3> compiz works "ok" for me, but on Friday, Unity crashed it too much
[00:45] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think you need to install unity, than turn on the plugin in that compiz plugin manager thing
[00:45] <robert_ancell> If I run compiz --replace, I get "couldn't load plugin 'decoration'", and similar for png, svg, compozite, neg
[00:45] <robert_ancell> unity appears to be installed
[00:45] <rickspencer3> huh
[00:45] <rickspencer3> that's pretty bad
[00:45] <rickspencer3> what graphics hardware?
[00:46] <rickspencer3> I'm on i965, and I even get wobbly windows
[00:46] <robert_ancell> ATI M92
[00:46] <RAOF> r... 300?
[00:46] <rickspencer3> oh
[00:47] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[00:47] <Sarvatt> it's completely busted on the nvidia blob too http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt
[00:47] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, RAOF can you guys help the compiz team get to the bottom of these crashers
[00:47] <rickspencer3> ?
[00:47] <RAOF> Wow, that's surprising.
[00:47] <rickspencer3> at least make sure their are bugs filed
[00:48] <rickspencer3> but whatever you can do to resolve these quickly
[00:48] <robert_ancell> will try
[00:49] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what's the best way to confirm my video driver?
[00:49] <RAOF> robert_ancell: “glxinfo | grep renderer” is fairly good.
[00:50] <RAOF> Xorg.0.log has more details, though.
[00:50] <robert_ancell> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R600 (RV710 9553) 20090101  TCL DRI2
[00:51] <RAOF> Ooookay.
[00:51] <RAOF> What's the compiz error you're getting?
[00:52] <robert_ancell> the first one is the failure to load the decoration plugin
[00:52] <robert_ancell> and eventually it segfaults
[00:53] <Sarvatt> yeah gtk-window-decorator segfaults quite often here, hit 37 segfaults in a 5 minute period the other day but haven't had time to look at whats going on
[00:53] <robert_ancell> dmesg shows the segfault is in libopengl.so
[00:54] <Sarvatt> takes out window decorations every time it does
[00:54] <RAOF> Why do *none* of my systems *ever* exhibit these widespread bugs? :)
[00:54] <cyphermox> howdy!
[00:54] <robert_ancell> what hw do you have?  This is a standard Dell Studio, about 1 year old
[00:55] <jasoncwarner> RAOF: because you have the perfect 50%/bell curve system? :P
[00:55] <cyphermox> robert_ancell, dell studio hybrid or dell studio?
[00:55] <RAOF> GM45, Radeon evergreen has the moste testing.
[00:55] <RAOF> (by me)
[00:56] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, standard Dell Studio 1555, bought off the website
[00:56] <cyphermox> ah,
[00:56] <RAOF> Sarvatt: That xsession backtrace isn't nVidia related; it's a libbamf problem.
[00:56] <Sarvatt> I meant it was busted on my machine with the blob, sorry :)
[00:57] <RAOF> 'sok :)
[00:57] <robert_ancell> ok, I'm going to enable fglrx and see if that solves it
[00:58] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so I guess I'm going to be a guinea pig for drivers from you?
[00:58] <RAOF> Hm.  I'm not running from the Unity PPA anymore; this is stock Natty packages.
[00:58] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I guess so!
[00:59] <RAOF> You're probably on i386, aren't you?
[00:59] <robert_ancell> amd64
[00:59] <RAOF> Woot!
[01:00] <robert_ancell> ok, installed, I'll be back
[01:01] <Sarvatt> the gtk-window-decorator segfaults will be in ~/.xsession-errors
[01:01] <Sarvatt> ah too late
[01:02] <RAOF> Hm.  Has the settings migration code landed in compiz?
[01:03] <RAOF> That might explain my differing results; I switched before the migration code and manually transferred my settings.
[01:05] <Sarvatt> I had to delete ~/.config/compiz* to get a desktop up on both natty systems
[01:06] <RAOF> Unity likes r600g quite a lot, it seems.  Ah.  Except for blur.
[01:08] <RAOF> Hm.  Given Robert's continued absence I'm guessing Unity doesn't like fglrx much.
[01:09] <robert_ancell> very weird, my bios took *minutes* to start.  Running fglrx now, but same problem
[01:09] <RAOF> Got a ~/.xsession-errors for us?
[01:12] <robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/
[01:12] <robert_ancell> weird, when I run firefox it seals the keyboard focus from all applications
[01:13] <robert_ancell> steals
[01:17] <RAOF> Hm.  Ok.  My compiz doesn't use the gconf backend, it uses ini.
[01:18] <RAOF> Hm.  And I *don't* load the decoration plugin.
[01:18] <RAOF> This suggests that old gconf settings might be a problem.
[01:19] <Sarvatt> sure you aren't using a PPA version? :)
[01:19] <RAOF> Installed: 1:<IP_ADDRESS>+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3
[01:20] <RAOF> Yup, I am now sure :)
[01:20] <robert_ancell> nope, standard 1:<IP_ADDRESS>+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3
[01:20] <Sarvatt> Backend     : gconf here too
[01:21] <Amaranth> RAOF: To be fair blur does require the incredibly advanced capabilities of... fragment programs
[01:21] <Amaranth> RAOF: Don't try to enable to gconf backend
[01:22] <RAOF> Amaranth: I wasn't going to; I was going to get them to try enabling the ini backend.
[01:22] <Amaranth> The gconf backend will pump the glib mainloop if ccp doesn't detect the glib plugin loaded
[01:22] <Amaranth> But core also pumps the glib mainloop
[01:22] <Amaranth> So... deadlock
[01:23] <RAOF> robert_ancell, Sarvatt: So, why not try setting “ini” in ~/.config/compiz-1/compizconfig/config
[01:23] <Sarvatt> why is it not the default if it has problems?
[01:24] <Amaranth> The ini backend is the default
[01:24] <Sarvatt> has problems otherwise
[01:24] <robert_ancell> RAOF, looks like you were right, I did a recursive-unset on my old compiz settings and now it works
[01:24] <Amaranth> If core.xml specifies the ccp plugin it'll use the ini backend by default and ccsm will still work
[01:25] <RAOF> Amaranth: Where's core.xml?
[01:25] <robert_ancell> old settings:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/535414/
[01:25] <Amaranth> RAOF: /usr/share/compiz/
[01:26] <robert_ancell> there is also some sort of redraw error when I switch windows.  The window doesn't seem to redraw until it is resized
[01:26] <robert_ancell> I'm going to disable fglrx and come back
[01:27] <Sarvatt> well, fresh maverick install -> upgrade to natty = using gconf
[01:28] <Amaranth> Sarvatt: For compiz? That's not actually possible
[01:28] <RAOF> Well, we've got two datapoints suggesting that it's not only possible, but it happens.
[01:29] <Amaranth> 0.9 uses a different path for the compizconfig settings file so the gconf setting won't carry over and if it somehow did compiz would deadlock
[01:29] <RAOF> Check out their xsession-errors - http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/ , for example.
[01:29] <Amaranth> OOo is currently eating my machine
[01:30] <Amaranth> Might take me a minute :)
[01:30] <Amaranth> Oh, someone is using unsupported third party scripts to start compiz
[01:30] <Amaranth> That's compiz-check or whatever
[01:30] <Amaranth> I have no idea what it might break
[01:31] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure that's not compiz-check.
[01:31] <Amaranth> That's not compiz itself and the shell script we used to use didn't print anything like that either
[01:31] <RAOF> My /usr/bin/compiz is a binary file, and *I* get that output.
[01:32] <Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt that one was a fresh maverick install and update to natty immediately after
[01:32] <RAOF> Except with “ini”, and it works.
[01:32] <Amaranth> arg, did smspillaz change something?
[01:33] <RAOF> I suspect the answer is “yes”
[01:33] <robert_ancell> ok, so compiz boots now, but still no unity..
[01:33] <RAOF> Have you enabled it yet?
[01:33] <robert_ancell> isn't it supposed to be automatic?
[01:33] <RAOF> I'm not sure; I don't think that switch has been flicked.
[01:33] <Amaranth> Ok, OOo seems to have given up
[01:34] <RAOF> Amaranth: But not relieved it's vice-like grip on your system? :)
[01:34] <Amaranth> It's using 874MB of RAM
[01:35] <RAOF> robert_ancell: You know how to enable it, right?
[01:35] <robert_ancell> RAOF, nope
[01:36] <RAOF> Fire up ccsm (installing it if necessary, it's in the compizconfig-settings-manager package) and scroll down to enable the unity plugin; it's right at the bottom.
[01:36] <RAOF> Hm.  I may have broken this mac bluetooth mouse while trying to clean the scroll-ball.  Boo.
[01:36] <Amaranth> Is this a PPA?
[01:37] <RAOF> No - packages straight out of Natty.
[01:40] <TheMuso> I use a fresh user for compiz/unity testing. :)
[01:41] <RAOF> Which might be why you haven't seen problems :)
[01:41] <TheMuso> heh
[01:41] <TheMuso> Just a suggestion. :)
[01:49] <Amaranth_> I upgraded from 0.8 to 0.9 just fine
[01:49] <Amaranth> I think I've killed kword too
[01:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, Now i'm running some weird broken hybrid of GNOME and unity, uh, help?
[01:50] <RAOF> Hah.
[01:50] <RAOF> In what way is it borken?
[01:51] <RAOF> Oh, you've still got some gnome-panels?
[01:51] <robert_ancell> well, I have a gnome-panel underneath the unity panel, and the nautilus bg.  i.e. is gnome-session aware this is unity?
[01:52] <RAOF> The nautilus BG is intentional, AFAIK.  I don't think gnome-session is aware, and it shouldn't be, because the Unity you've got is incomplete.
[01:52] <RAOF> (If you didn't have a gnome-panel running, Alt-F2 wouldn't work, and so you wouldn't be able to launch anything not already on your Unity panel)
[01:53] <RAOF> I presume the next Unity release will actually allow one to launch arbitrary apps, by fixing the places :)
[01:53] <Amaranth> You know, unity is actually the way compiz was meant to be used
[01:54]  * robert_ancell shakes hand at rickspencer3 for suggesting this :)
[01:54] <Amaranth> Trying unity?
[01:54] <robert_ancell> it seems a little broken at the moment...
[01:54] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Oooh, ooh!  Could you try alt-tabbing?
[01:54] <Amaranth> Uh oh
[01:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, thanks for that...
[01:55] <Amaranth> Did it crash?
[01:55] <RAOF> Ah, so that's not just broken on Evergreen, then?
[01:55] <robert_ancell> everything broke, I've manually started metacity now
[01:55] <RAOF> :)
[01:56] <robert_ancell> my gnome-panel has slowly lost all its applets, it keeps complaining they're all broken
[01:56] <robert_ancell> ok, I'm off for lunch, be back in a bit
[01:56] <Amaranth> Whoa, kword has loaded my 23MB doc file and is only using 359MB of RAM
[01:57] <RAOF> robert_ancell: If you'd like alt-tab to work, the mesa in http://cooperteam.net/Packages should work.
[01:57] <Amaranth> Oh, but it's only actually loaded 5 pages of it so far...
[02:04] <bcurtiswx> unity doesn't work for me either
[02:04] <bcurtiswx> ATI Radeon graphics card
[02:06] <bcurtiswx> the ubuntu logo supposedly would be clickable to show another screen.. but ATM it does nothing
[02:07] <bcurtiswx> as soon as i close the ccsm it crashes
[02:10] <RAOF> Well, the Ubuntu logo doing nothing is a known deficiency, at least according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuide
[02:15] <TheMuso> RAOF: yes I originally had crashes with compiz, smspillaz suggested I turn off mipmapping for the switcher plugins, which helped. Running a RV770 here.
[02:18] <cyphermox> jasoncwarner1, to answer your question, I was able to install compizconfig-settings-manager then enable the unity plugin in ccsm
[02:18] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, now just get it to stop crashing!
[02:18] <cyphermox> I would think it's due to be enabled by default eventually, but it more or less work... though I now lose NM-applet if it's enabled :'(
[02:18] <RAOF> TheMuso: Ok, thanks for that.  I thought the mipmapping problem was restricted to Evergreen cards, which aren't going to be well supported by r600c anyway (and r600g works fine)
[02:19] <RAOF> I see I should start fixing that mipmapping stuff.
[02:20] <jasoncwarner1> cyphermox: thanks...installing now...
[02:27] <bcurtiswx> well, Is unity really planned on being default by alpha1 ?
[02:27] <bcurtiswx> doesn't seem like a good idea IMO if its trie
[02:27] <bcurtiswx> true*
[02:30] <RAOF> I don't know; #ayatana probably does.
[02:34] <bcurtiswx> OK :) thx
[02:35] <TheMuso> I'd also say that Didrocks would have a better idea of that as well.
[02:36] <RAOF> I'd *hope* he's asleep now, though.
[02:36] <TheMuso> I know didrocks and DX were discussing technical aspects of the fallback plan last night.
[02:37] <bcurtiswx> yeah, hes over in the UK, right?
[02:37] <TheMuso> France
[02:37] <bcurtiswx> then yes, he's halfway through his night by now
[03:05] <robert_ancell> grr, my visa card must have got copied at UDS - it got cancelled due to a dodgy US transaction
[03:08] <RAOF> Time to go over my transaction statement, is it? :(
[03:11] <robert_ancell> well, I guess it could have been copied from any country, but it never hurts
[03:25] <TheMuso> I already had that happen to me late last year, don't want it to happen again, so yeah, good idea.
[03:25] <TheMuso> ...and to think we are going to the same hotel as UDS Lucid for the sprint in January.
[03:26] <TheMuso> Which is where I suspect the copy was made..
[07:55] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <pitti> RAOF: mesa> it's not "this week" urgent, but would be nice for alpha-1
[07:58] <didrocks> good morning
[08:37] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:37] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:37] <rodrigo_> didrocks, a bit sleepy still :)
[08:37] <didrocks> :)
[08:38] <rodrigo_> but fine otherwise, you?
[08:38] <didrocks> I'm fine thanks, it's snowing a lot outside :)
[08:38] <rodrigo_> oh, cool!
[08:38] <didrocks> yeah \o/
[08:39] <rodrigo_> do you ski?
[08:40] <didrocks> I ski, but not a lot (like 3/5 days per year), enough to enjoy it :)
[08:40] <didrocks> you?
[08:41] <ara> didrocks, show? already? where are you based?
[08:41] <didrocks> ara: I'm currently near Annecy (in the Alps), will be finally based in Lyon next month :)
[08:42] <ara> didrocks, that makes sense then :)
[08:42] <rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, I do
[08:42] <didrocks> ara: right :)
[08:42] <rodrigo_> didrocks, I asked because usually people hate snow, except if they ski :)
[08:43] <rodrigo_> hey ara
[08:43] <didrocks> rodrigo_: ahah, that's more or less true. People especially hate snow in towns (it's true that it's getting dirty very quick)
[08:43] <ara> hey rodrigo_ :)
[08:53] <rodrigo_> ara, no snow yet in Berlin?
[08:57] <ara> rodrigo_, not yet, but they say it will snow this week
[08:58] <rodrigo_> ara, cool, although I guess you don't like it much?
[08:59] <ara> rodrigo_, I will love it! I never lived in a city where it snows!
[08:59] <rodrigo_> ah cool then
[08:59] <ara> rodrigo_, I might hate in two months, maybe... but right now, let it show!
[08:59] <rodrigo_> :)
[09:00] <seb128> hey there!
[09:00] <rodrigo_> hi seb128
[09:00] <seb128> hey rodrigo_, ara
[09:01] <seb128> how are you?
[09:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, fine, thanks, you?
[09:01] <ara> hey seb128, fine thanks! yourself?
[09:02] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[09:03] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:04] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:05] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-applets/no-more-deprecated/+merge/41494
[09:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, oh nice, I wanted to check where you got with those
[09:06] <rodrigo_> seb128, don't approve it though, the invest applet crashes with gtk2 gir and hangs with gtk3 gir
[09:06] <seb128> is that new?
[09:06] <rodrigo_> so trying to find where the problem is, I think it's the gtk2 gir
[09:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, I could submit just the null applet part, but I've been holding this to submit both at the same time
[09:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, what do you mean new?
[09:07] <seb128> did it work at some point and got broken by a gtk or gir update?
[09:08] <rodrigo_> no, nver worked for me
[09:08] <seb128> ok
[09:08] <rodrigo_> I asked in #introspection, and the suggestion was that it seemed gtk2 gir was broken
[09:08] <seb128> why did you comment the silent applet cleaning patch from the serie?
[09:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, still needing a rebase
[09:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, we don't want to depends on gtk3 yet though
[09:08] <rodrigo_> yeah
[09:09] <rodrigo_> and it can't use gtk3, libpanel-applet-3 is gtk2
[09:09] <seb128> right
[09:09] <rodrigo_> seb128, maybe you can try it to see if you have the same crash as I do?
[09:09] <seb128> I can
[09:10] <rodrigo_> running /usr/lib/gnome-applets/invest-applet should give you the error
[09:21] <seb128> hum, micahg, interesting email on the list
[09:21] <seb128> not sure I like issues being pointed by Cc-ing other people before asking the concerned team though
[09:22] <micahg> seb128: I'm sorry, i wasn't sure what to do
[09:22] <micahg> seb128: I'll be sure to check with you next time I see an issue
[09:23] <rodrigo_> seb128, can you tell me which package the files in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0/gi/overrides/ belong to?
[09:24] <rodrigo_> they seem to not belong to any package, and that's where the applet fails
[09:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, or python2.7
[09:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, should be python-gobject
[09:25] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[09:25] <seb128> micahg, thanks
[09:25] <seb128> micahg, the people have been added to the team to be able to use the GNOME3 ppa
[09:26] <huats> morning
[09:26] <seb128> micahg, we never really excerced the policy you pointed and I forgot about it
[09:27] <micahg> seb128: right, I figured as much, can I suggest separating out the uploaders from the PPA/bzr committers, we do this in the Mozilla team which allowed me to contribute heavily well before getting upload rights
[09:27] <seb128> is there any way to do that or do we need a new ppa team then?
[09:28] <micahg> seb128: no, you can keep the current team, just create a new uploaders team
[09:28] <seb128> well then we need a new team
[09:28] <micahg> we should probably ask cjwatson first, but I think that's the way to go
[09:28] <seb128> we can't have different acls for code and ppa in the same team right?
[09:28] <micahg> seb128: right, AFAIK
[09:28] <seb128> ok, need some discussions
[09:29] <seb128> well I though in the current situation we don't really need that
[09:29] <seb128> we can just probably get rodrigo_ and mterry approved for the team
[09:30] <micahg> right, I guess it depends how green the contributors generally are to packaging when they're hired
[09:32] <seb128> micahg, well that ppa is the official GNOME3 one
[09:32] <seb128> the things landing there will go to natty
[09:35] <seb128> we probably want to give upload rights to people who should be trusted for uploads to ubuntu
[09:40] <micahg> right, but there's a difference between trusted to not be malicious and trusted to not break things
[09:42] <seb128> in this case we want both for the ppa
[09:42] <RAOF> Like packaging a gcr with a new ABI but not changing the package name?
[09:42] <RAOF> :)
[09:42] <micahg> heh
[09:43] <seb128> right
[09:43] <seb128> rodrigo_ still need some reviewing
[09:43] <seb128> rodrigo_, no offense to your work btw
[09:43] <rodrigo_> yes, I only upload/Merge stuff after approval
[09:43] <seb128> it's just that such issues are sort of basic library packaging rules
[09:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, no offense taken :)
[09:43] <RAOF> Libraries are hard.
[09:44] <seb128> well basis are not so hard
[09:44] <seb128> like having the naming matching the soname
[09:45] <seb128> checking abi breakages is harder
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, more toolchain breakage! http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59475228/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.xulrunner-1.9.2_<IP_ADDRESS>%2Bbuild1%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:50] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: It must be so much fun to have a package so sensitive to build breakage ;)
[09:51] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I saw a similar break in the PPA for xul 2.0 that I thought you fixed
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, it's a lot of fun ;)
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> micahg, i don't think i fixed anything like this yet
[09:58] <pitti> ah, ccsm is indeed quite nice -- I get focus-follows-mouse again, plus my keybindings, plus my 2x2 workspaces
[09:58] <pitti> still doesn't solve the upgrade problem, though
[09:58] <seb128> pitti, how did you get your keybindings?
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: the one I'm missing most is Alt+B to lower the current window
[09:59] <seb128> pitti, the recent update which activates gnomecompat and vpswitcher should solve that?
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: no, they didn't
[09:59] <seb128> you had to change the backend to gconf for it?
[09:59] <pitti> when I switched from metacity to compiz again this morning, everything was still broken
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: I did enable the gnome compat plugin manually before, though
[09:59] <seb128> well that's different from upgrading
[10:00] <seb128> your config can't be consider as upgradable
[10:00] <didrocks> there is no way to change the list of default plugins once you are upgraded
[10:00] <seb128> you got in a custom state by fixing things manually
[10:00] <pitti> right, just now
[10:00] <didrocks> even before, it doesn't change the list of plugins
[10:00] <pitti> but before that I only touched ccsm once to manually enable "gnome compat"
[10:00] <didrocks> so, the list of plugin is always copied and considered "custom"
[10:00] <seb128> well what didrocks says is that the migration happens once when you install 0.9
[10:01] <seb128> so if you upgraded to a buggy version you are screwed
[10:01] <seb128> next updates will not fix it for you
[10:01] <pitti> I see
[10:01] <pitti> so if I'd restore my maverick configuration now and upgrade again, it should work?
[10:01] <didrocks> same issue with gnome-panel and others…
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, not perfectly yet
[10:01] <didrocks> pitti: well I'm just testing this :)
[10:01] <pitti> didrocks: nice :)
[10:01] <seb128> but some of the issues are fixed yes
[10:01] <didrocks> and we will add tomorrow the profiles
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'm glad to hear that; thanks for the heads-up
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, yw ;-)
[10:02] <seb128> congrats to didrocks
[10:02]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[10:02] <seb128> he did a rocking job on getting the new compiz in
[10:02]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[10:02] <seb128> we get very few upgrade issues
[10:02] <seb128> just a few settings glitches but that easy to workaround
[10:02] <didrocks> well, hope to remove every glitches + adding the profile for tomorrow :)
[10:02] <seb128> ;-)
[10:03] <didrocks> but this gnome-wm thing makes me crazy, but we can't remove it, it seems…
[10:03] <seb128> why does it make you crazy?
[10:04] <didrocks> seb128: I think we should try to remove it, this wrapper use alternatives that we don't use anymore, it's launched by the "required_componenents/windowmananger" gconf key, but gnome-appearance-properties overwrites it to metacity or compiz…
[10:05] <didrocks> so, basically, it's just use until you change it in gnome-appeareance-properties which has a different logic then, doesn't look nice :)
[10:06] <seb128> no it's not?
[10:06] <seb128> the wrapper has cases for other wm out of those
[10:07] <seb128> it just has logic to respect the GNOME config if there is one
[10:07] <didrocks> seb128: right, but gnome-appearance-properties shouldn't overwrite the wrapper launch then, so that we always use the wrapper and tweak the secondary keys
[10:08] <didrocks> (also, we still have patch for dapper update…)
[10:08] <seb128> well arguably we are faster by overwriting the wrapper
[10:09] <didrocks> yeah, but we have another code path and such… for instance, I don't really quite well understand why people having gnome-wm, on compiz update, seems to have metacity overwritten… (still need confirming)
[10:09] <seb128> there is no point to run a shell wrapper at each login to start a known wm
[10:09] <didrocks> well, that's what we do for gdm :)
[10:09] <seb128> well maybe we should fix what we do for gdm then?
[10:10] <seb128> rather than adding slow code in the session
[10:10] <seb128> I'm not a fan of adding shell scripts to the session when not needed
[10:10] <seb128> it's just costing login time
[10:10] <didrocks> I wanted to whip it out at first…
[10:10] <seb128> we had to work hard enough to spare some
[10:10] <didrocks> but if people don't have compiz, they won't have the fallback
[10:11] <seb128> well we could argue that if you get out of the default install enough, ie uninstall compiz, it's your job to fix the session
[10:11] <didrocks> we could do that for gdm, as it seems xfce people are just running an autostart .desktop file for their wm, so we can change the "mandatory" key
[10:12] <didrocks> so, you would be in favor to remove gnome-wm definitively?
[10:12] <seb128> not sure, I need to think about it a bit
[10:12] <seb128> not removing it in any case
[10:13] <seb128> just not using it by default
[10:13] <seb128> we still need it for upgrades
[10:13] <seb128> user configs might be set on it
[10:13] <didrocks> yeah, that's what I meant "removing == changing the required_component key to compiz for user session and metacity for gdm"
[10:13] <seb128> since we don't have a nice way to change user gconf configs on upgrades
[10:14] <didrocks> seb128: as a side note, I'm curious, why setting metacity as default on user upgrade for dapper? compiz wasn't still the default IIRC?
[10:14] <seb128> what?
[10:14] <seb128> oh
[10:15] <seb128> I think because it was the default winmanager by then
[10:15] <seb128> we didn't want to force compiz for upgraders
[10:15] <seb128> we still wanted to default to what people had before upgrading
[10:15] <seb128> less risky way
[10:15] <seb128> "keep what people had and let them opt in if they want"
[10:15] <didrocks> seb128: oh ok, let upgrade get metacity, for new install compiz?
[10:15] <didrocks> ok :)
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, correct
[10:16] <didrocks> I was curious about it :)
[10:16] <didrocks> so, it seems you deal with that in the upgrade for user gconf key, touching /var/lib/gnome-session/dapper-upgrade after the gnome-session upgrade
[10:17] <didrocks> I'm still thinking do we want compiz or not, as if it's not the case, people upgrading won't have gnome-panel, neither unity
[10:17] <seb128> we can drop those hacks now
[10:17] <didrocks> yeah, it's leftover for merges
[10:17] <seb128> didrocks, why would people not get gnome-panel on upgrade?
[10:20] <seb128> didrocks, ?
[10:21] <didrocks> seb128: because with unity in the default session, we don't need gnome-panel, so removing it as a required_components
[10:22] <vish> didrocks: Bug #671776 is what you were looking for :)
[10:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 671776 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "NetworkManager applet not shown with applications view (affects: 1) (heat: 208)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671776
[10:22] <seb128> didrocks, ok, need some thinking
[10:23] <didrocks> vish: oh thanks! can you put it as a duplicate?
[10:23] <vish> didrocks: sure.. np..
[10:23] <didrocks> seb128: well, basically, I have a patch on gnome-session to tell "ok, gnome-panel isn't a required component, don't respawn it"
[10:24] <didrocks> so, we will be able to let it that way
[10:24] <didrocks> but sounds hackish to kill it at start once unity is there
[10:24] <seb128> right, not to mention that we want to respawn it in the 2d session
[10:25] <didrocks> seb128: well, the 2d session is a different session, we can let it as a required_componenent
[10:25] <didrocks> with the gconf paths
[10:25] <seb128> well unity session fallback if you want
[10:25] <seb128> like unity session but were unity start is failing
[10:25] <didrocks> right
[10:25] <didrocks> so, the hack to readd it doesn't work
[10:26] <didrocks> as discussed yesterday
[10:26] <didrocks> it can't match the app and the client on dbus
[10:26] <didrocks> I tried to find a way to tell "hey hey, it's the same"
[10:26] <didrocks> but didn't work very well
[10:26] <seb128> could you do an email about that with all the scenario to take in account?
[10:27] <seb128> like upgrades using compiz, upgrades not using it, unity session where unity is not working, 2d session
[10:27] <seb128> I think it need some thinking out of IRC with a summary
[10:27] <seb128> we might get ideas on the list
[10:27] <seb128> it would for sure help me to have a summary of cases and some time to think about it
[10:28] <didrocks> hum, ok… hope that we can deal with that quite quickly as alpha1 is closed :)
[10:28] <seb128> doesn't need to be this week
[10:28] <didrocks> close*
[10:28] <seb128> well if the upgrades are not perfect in a1 so be it
[10:28] <seb128> it's only a1
[10:28] <didrocks> right, but with the profile not being able to upgrade in compiz, if we need some tweaking there, that will be better to take that early
[10:29] <seb128> well I didn't want to add stress to what you are doing
[10:29] <seb128> but if you want to get that email out today feel free
[10:29] <didrocks> I'll
[10:29] <seb128> you handle your time as you want ;-)
[10:30] <didrocks> well, I'm trying to focus on that before the crazy end of week :-) and if we tell "we need that know" after tomorrow evening, not sure to have the time for A1
[10:30] <didrocks> hence my "the sooner, the better" :)
[10:30] <seb128> k
[10:30] <seb128> enough IRC discussions, I will let you work
[10:50] <pitti> I'm off for a longer lunch today, CU later
[10:50] <seb128> pitti, have fun
[10:50] <seb128> rodrigo_, invest-applet doesn't work here
[10:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, fixed a few more issues, but still doesn't work here neither
[10:52] <seb128> NameError: name 'gobject' is not defined
[10:52] <seb128> there
[10:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, already fixed that
[10:53] <seb128> ok
[10:53] <rodrigo_> now stuck in PanelApplet.Applet.factory_main, it says it can't find that method, but the gir file has it :(
[11:42] <chrisccoulson> wow, a morning wasted just to find that my build issue is caused by 2 linker flags being the wrong way around
[11:42] <chrisccoulson> grrrrrrr
[11:42] <kklimonda> heh
[11:43] <kklimonda> I've wasted an hour or so for the same reason a week ago or so
[11:43] <chrisccoulson> it's seriously annoying, especially when it used to work just fine
[11:43] <seb128> kklimonda, hey
[11:43] <kklimonda> seb128: hola
[11:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, having the source after the libs?
[11:43] <seb128> source -> object
[11:44] <seb128> ie gcc -l... file.c -o ...?
[11:44] <kklimonda> seb128: I've seen that you have lost a lot of time yesterday discussin sponsoring.. and that's why you haven't had time to actually sponsor? ;}
[11:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, it was more subtle than that
[11:44] <seb128> kklimonda, that and I can't find your sponsoring requests
[11:44] <seb128> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
[11:44] <seb128> doesn't have them
[11:44] <seb128> nor my bugmail box
[11:45] <seb128> kklimonda, that's why I was pinging you
[11:45] <seb128> where do you hide your work? ;-)
[11:45] <seb128> the glibmm update?
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i need to do "../libjs_static.a -lnspr4" rather than "-lnspr4 ../libjs_static.a", because libjs_static.a has objects that uses nspr symbols
[11:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, tell us ;-)
[11:45] <seb128> oh
[11:45] <kklimonda> seb128: bah, my bad - I've assumed requesting a merge to the ~ubuntu-desktop branch is enough as you are tuned to the case ;)
[11:45] <seb128> got bitten by the same issue for gnome-panel last week
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> but it has always worked before :(
[11:46] <seb128> yes, doko said it was luck though
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[11:46] <seb128> or rather --as-needed makes it stricter
[11:46] <kklimonda> seb128: give me a minute and I'll open a bug about it.
[11:46] <seb128> kklimonda, well just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the merge request
[11:46] <seb128> no need of a bug
[11:47] <kklimonda> seb128: oh? I didn't know that - is the packaging branch enough, or would you prefer full branch with source?
[11:47] <kklimonda> I think I have both
[11:47] <seb128> kklimonda, the packaging is better
[11:47] <seb128> I don't want to have to checkout the full glibmm history
[11:47] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[11:48] <kklimonda> yes, that's the huge issue with the new model - I remember giving up few times and just using apt-get source because it was fetching hundreds MBs of data.. slowly ;)
[11:48] <seb128> the desktop sources are still debian dir only in the vcs due to that
[11:49] <kklimonda> seb128: I can't really subscribe sponsors to the merge itself, is subscribing them to the branch enough?
[11:49] <seb128> why not?
[11:49] <seb128> you can ask review from sponsors?
[11:49] <seb128> click on the request review from button
[11:50] <seb128> then write ubuntu-sponsors
[11:50] <seb128> it should work?
[11:50] <kklimonda> ah, reviewer is set to ubuntu desktop and I can change it
[11:50] <kklimonda> ok, worked fine
[11:50] <seb128> yeah, the issue with that is that nobody is subscribed to ubuntu-desktop emails
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's amazing - i tried to build icedtea-web against xulrunner-2.0 last night, and it has exactly the same type of linker flag ordering issue as well
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> and that's doko's own package ;)
[11:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it seems we will get quite some issues due to that
[11:53] <chrisccoulson> right, that's xul-192 fixed i think. hopefully it builds now,i don't really want to waste time waiting for it to build here
[11:55] <kklimonda> btw, the amount of ways stuff can be sponsored right now is so big I'm actually considering working on my upload rights just so I don't have to deal with it ;)
[12:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, ping
[12:25] <rodrigo_> oh, he was off for a long lunch
[12:26] <rodrigo_> does anyone know how to tell apport to look for symptoms modules in a different dir than /usr/share/apport/symptoms/ ?
[12:29] <ara> hello guys
[12:29] <rodrigo_> hola ara
[12:30] <ara> I have installed natty from yesterday image (alternate) and, although unity is installed by default, I don't have a Ubuntu Netbook Edition in the gdm menu
[12:30] <ara> it always logs in to the gnome session
[12:30] <ara> is that expected?
[12:30] <didrocks> ara: that's normal, there is no more ubuntu netbook edition
[12:30] <ara> didrocks, but how I get a unity session?
[12:30] <didrocks> ara: and for now, unity isn't the default on the desktop
[12:30] <didrocks> ara: there is no unity session, just enables unity as a compiz plugin
[12:31] <didrocks> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuide
[12:31] <ara> ta
[12:31] <didrocks> should remove the ppa bits, one sec :)
[12:31] <ara> :)
[12:31] <didrocks> fixed
[12:42] <rodrigo_> http://pastebin.com/usEdyfRF <- is this because libgnome-control-cneter doesn't have a .symbols file?
[12:47] <bilalakhtar> kenvandine: Congratulations! You are a core-dev now!
[12:48] <nisshh> kenvandine, congratz dude!
[12:50] <rodrigo_> congrats kenvandine!! :-)
[12:50] <seb128> rodrigo_, it should not
[12:51] <seb128> rodrigo_, is /usr/lib/libgnome-control-center.so.1 shipped with any binary?
[12:51] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, gnome-control-center
[12:51] <baptistemm> 3
[12:51] <rodrigo_> let me re-check
[12:51] <baptistemm> 3
[12:51] <baptistemm> oups
[12:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, g-c-c package
[12:52] <seb128> rodrigo_, why is it there?
[12:52] <seb128> is that a public library?
[12:52] <seb128> if that's one it should be shipped in a libg-c-c1
[12:53] <seb128> I didn't check what is the issue
[12:53] <rodrigo_> yes, need to split it, but it should work for building other modules, right?
[12:53] <seb128> but libraries should be in a lib<name> binary
[12:53] <rodrigo_> that's why it can't find the dependency?
[12:53] <seb128> well I'm not sure how much the checksymbol check that lib are in a lib binary
[12:53] <seb128> could be
[12:53] <rodrigo_> ok, I'll split the g-c-c package
[12:53] <seb128> let me try to figure if that's the case
[12:53] <rodrigo_> and try with that
[12:53] <rodrigo_> ok
[13:09] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:26]  * rodrigo_ -> lunch
[13:46] <mterry> kenvandine, !!  wooo!  core dev!
[13:46] <seb128> hey mterry
[13:47] <seb128> kenvandine, congrats ;-)
[13:47] <mterry> seb128, hi
[13:47] <didrocks> congrats kenvandine!
[13:47] <seb128> mterry, you are on the ubuntu-desktop list right?
[13:47] <didrocks> hey mterry, cyphermox!
[13:47] <mterry> seb128, yeah, I saw that post about how I'm not supposed to be on the team  :)
[13:47] <mterry> whoops
[13:48] <mterry> I assume I should apply the right way?
[13:48] <seb128> mterry, ok, I think it's just paperwork issues
[13:48] <cyphermox> hey kenvandine, congrats :D
[13:48] <seb128> yes please
[13:48]  * mterry reads how
[13:48] <seb128> mterry, just send an email on the list saying you want to apply and why
[13:48] <pitti> rodrigo_: hey
[13:49] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes, you can set $APPORT_SYMPTOMS_DIR
[13:49] <kenvandine> yay :)
[13:49] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, congratulations to your core-dev badge! well earned
[13:49] <kenvandine> thank you
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, hey
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: hello again
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, did you read the ubuntu-desktop email from micahg today?
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: I've seen it fly by, yes
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, ok, sorry about the messing up there
[13:51] <pitti> so we should announce the two members to the -desktop and that other list, right?
[13:56] <seb128> pitti, sorry got sidetracked with something else
[13:56] <seb128> pitti, well, I think mterry can apply without issue
[13:57] <seb128> not sure if rodrigo_ needs some extra time with reviews before
[13:57] <pitti> seb128: mterry> ack, he should just (be able to) upload
[13:57] <seb128> I added them to work on the ppa rather than to give them upload rights
[13:57] <seb128> but right now we don't have different rights for those
[13:57] <pitti> right, so we have a privilege conflict there
[13:57] <seb128> so either we create a new team for the ppa...
[13:58] <seb128> or we ask rodrigo to get through reviews for a bit
[13:58] <seb128> do you have any preference?
[13:58] <seb128> I would lean toward the second one I think
[13:59] <seb128> we want the ppa to be natty quality
[13:59] <seb128> it's work in progress GNOME3 to land when ready
[13:59] <seb128> we will have quite some users running it and ideally we should reduce breakages
[13:59] <seb128> it's also a nice way for rodrigo to get some reviewing and get the feedback he needs to be added to the team for uploads
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: reviews sound like a good idea; I think for now it should be enough that he promises to only upload to the PPA, not to natty yet, until he becomes "officially" accepted as an uploader?
[14:00] <seb128> well that's what he did when I added to the team
[14:01] <seb128> but the policy wiki doesn't really consider such cases
[14:01] <seb128> so I'm not sure what we should do to get back in not abusing the rules
[14:03] <pitti> seb128: hm, perhaps we should then do that dogfooding thing and actually review/sponsor his uploads to the PPA, too?
[14:03] <seb128> wel that's what I was suggesting
[14:04] <seb128> ok, let's do that?
[14:04] <seb128> either he's up to do updates and we can ack him in the new weeks
[14:04] <seb128> or the review work will be an useful exercice for him
[14:05] <seb128> pitti, let's do that for a bit and see how it goes?
[14:06] <pitti> I agree
[14:06] <pitti> rodrigo_: does that work for you?
[14:06] <seb128> ok great
[14:06] <pitti> rodrigo_: you can work in bzr branches for now, and ask Seb/me/Ken/etc for reviewing and merging, and we do the uploads for you?
[14:06] <seb128> rodrigo_, so we will probably remove your commit and upload right to the ppa for a bit, time you get officially approved
[14:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, if reviews are ok you will be able to apply for official membership in a few weeks
[14:08] <pitti> seb128: for mterry, we need three acks on ubuntu-desktop; want me to send the invitation?
[14:08] <seb128> pitti, invitation?
[14:08] <pitti> to join the u-desktop team (belatedly)
[14:09] <mterry> pitti, I just sent an email to the list
[14:09] <seb128> I was waiting for you and didrocks to ack him and going to ack and Cc the permission list
[14:09] <pitti> s per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
[14:09] <seb128> well, let's said it differently
[14:09] <seb128> if you and didrocks reply to ack him I will do the remaining ack and Cc the list
[14:09] <seb128> so it's all done
[14:10] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: works for you?
[14:10] <seb128> well, didrocks or kenvandine
[14:10] <didrocks> seb128: works for me
[14:10] <seb128> or chrisccoulson
[14:10] <seb128> I don't think we lack people to ack mterry
[14:11] <seb128> ;-)
[14:11] <didrocks> oh mterry, wait!
[14:11] <didrocks> (kidding)
[14:11] <didrocks> :)
[14:11] <seb128> lol
[14:11] <seb128> seems he working on that quickly thing
[14:11]  * didrocks looks if he hacked my merge request on Quickly before deciding :)
[14:12] <kenvandine> :)
[14:13] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, did you get my pings yesterday?
[14:13] <pitti> seb128, mterry: I sent my "no, no, no, not THAT guy" mail as a response
[14:13] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i probably missed them, i was trying not to get distracted
[14:13] <kenvandine> sorry
[14:13] <kenvandine> what's up?
[14:14] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, no need to be sorry.  :)  I have finished the 2.32.2 SRU, i was just letting you know so when you got the chance you could sponsor/review it and push to natty
[14:14] <mterry> :)
[14:15] <kenvandine> ah
[14:15] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, cool, bug #?
[14:15] <bcurtiswx> bug #678330
[14:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 678330 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy 2.32.2 Stable Release Update Request (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678330
[14:16] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i'll take a look later this afternoon
[14:16] <kenvandine> thx!
[14:16] <mterry> pitti, well, if this is the "no" email, I'd like to see what you say for people you like.  ;)
[14:16] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, great, no rush.  :) you're the best
[14:17] <cyphermox> pitti, btw, fontconfig merge is ready for review, I set ubuntu-sponsors as reviewer for the branch. since you had asked about it yesterday :)
[14:17] <pitti> hey cyphermox, great!
[14:17] <seb128> kenvandine, does that mean you can upload gtk3 yourself today? ;-)
[14:17] <bcurtiswx> pitti, doesn't like people.  it's against his beliefs ;)
[14:17] <didrocks> mterry: seb128: sent my "no email" as well :)
[14:17]  * pitti holds up his "I hate y'all" cardboard sign
[14:18] <cyphermox> y'all?
[14:18] <cyphermox> eh.
[14:18] <seb128> quality is going down I tell you
[14:18] <seb128> see all those slackers getting uploads right
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, mterry
[14:18] <cyphermox> lol
[14:18]  * bcurtiswx is on his way to slacking ;)
[14:18]  * cyphermox is slacking selectively ;)
[14:18] <pitti> bcurtiswx: slack harder! slack harder!
[14:19] <pitti> *grouphug*
[14:19] <kenvandine> seb128, i guess so :)
[14:19] <seb128> ;-)
[14:19]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:19]  * bcurtiswx is.  i hope to apply by cycle's end
[14:19] <seb128> bcurtiswx, great, keep the nice work ;-)
[14:20] <pitti> so, back to the depths of untangling threads in usb-creator
[14:20] <bcurtiswx> seb128, thx. :)
[14:20]  * bcurtiswx killed seb128 ?
[14:21] <pitti> seb128 respawns
[14:21] <didrocks> like my gnome-session issue :)
[14:21] <mterry> :)
[14:21] <pitti> quickly, collect all his goodies and weapons!
[14:21]  * didrocks tries to get people read my thread :p
[14:22] <seb128> pitti, I've to fix those conflicts at some point, I've 2 boxes which disconnect each other when connecting
[14:22] <pitti> use seb129 on the other one?
[14:22] <seb128> I should, it's my old config
[14:23] <seb128> I turn it sometimes on for debug
[14:23] <bcurtiswx> this is too good
[14:23] <seb128> but I never bothered changing the config
[14:23]  * bcurtiswx rofl's
[14:23] <mterry> didrocks, thanks!
[14:23] <seb128> didrocks, your email is less inviting than mterry's one to read for some reason
[14:24] <didrocks> seb128: not sure why… :-)
[14:24] <didrocks> oh those headaches!
[14:24] <seb128> ;-)
[14:24] <didrocks> ;)
[14:24] <didrocks> I've put some jokes inside, that's so unfair!
[14:25] <pitti> didrocks: which email do you mean?
[14:25] <seb128> could be, I need to find the motivation to read enough to see them ;-)
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, the one he sent on the desktop list early today
[14:26] <pitti> odd, I see it in the archive, but not in my mail box
[14:27] <didrocks> pitti: isn't that /ignore didrocks ? :)
[14:27] <pitti> not in my procmail.log either
[14:27] <pitti> so not even in spam
[14:27] <pitti> didrocks: would you mind bouncing it to me?
[14:28] <pitti> so that I can reply in thread
[14:28] <didrocks> pitti: sure, one sec
[14:28] <pitti> cyphermox: uploaded, thanks!
[14:28] <cyphermox> pitti, wow, thanks!
[14:31] <didrocks> rodrigo_: when e-d-s build issue and new evolution will be published, would you mind testing evolution-couchdb with the new version and ask for a rebuild if needed?
[14:31] <didrocks> (well, a rebuild will be needed for picking up the new shlibs in any case)
[14:34] <cyphermox> didrocks, found the cause for the e-d-s new ftbfs ...
[14:35] <didrocks> cyphermox: nice! what was it?
[14:35] <cyphermox> upload of gtk+2.0 2.23 along with using -DGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED :)
[14:35] <cyphermox> gtk_combo_box_append_text is now deprecated
[14:36] <didrocks> cyphermox: ok, there should be a commit upstream about it, you should be able to backport it
[14:36] <didrocks> cyphermox: or add the flag in configure
[14:36] <cyphermox> yep
[14:37] <didrocks> cyphermox: you should try in a pbuilder and trying to rebuild everything, maybe evolution and other have those issues as well now
[14:38] <cyphermox> yeah, just checking if there's a commit first
[14:44] <ara> didrocks, compizconfig-settings-manager is not installed by default. You might want to put that in your Unity installation wiki page
[14:44] <seb128> ok, enough testing
[14:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've sponsored your d-f-u update btw
[14:45] <seb128> kklimonda, doing the glibmm build at the moment as well
[14:46] <didrocks> ara: well, unity will be the default this week normally and unity it's quite experimental until then, hence the fact it's not strongly encouraged until then :)
[14:48] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, why the push to make unity default so quick.. seems too broken ATM IMO
[14:48] <mterry> more testing this way?
[14:48] <rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, sure
[14:49] <rodrigo_> didrocks, I changed evo-couchdb to compile with any version of e-d-s, but only tested on git versions, so, yes, will do it
[14:49] <didrocks> more testing than testing A1 without having it, and double session for people wanting still gnome-panel. it's a win-win…
[14:49] <didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks :)
[14:50] <seb128> bcurtiswx, unstable is unstable
[14:51] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, seb128.  OK :) when will the ubuntu button be fixed ?
[14:51] <bcurtiswx> can't really access local files easy without it..
[14:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, should be in alpha2
[14:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, you case use nautilus
[14:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: anything that works for you works for me, but what do you mean about removing my rights? I would not be able to do the uploads/merges myself then, even after reviews?
[14:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, the best way to get things fixed is to get testing and people complaining about what doesn't work
[14:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, you can easily go back to GNOME as well
[14:52] <rodrigo_> diwic, oh, you were here, missed it :-)
[14:52] <seb128> just unset the compiz unity option
[14:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, no you would not, it means whoever review for you should merge and upload
[14:53] <bcurtiswx> seb128, i know.  I have it on compiz w/o unity ATM .  thx :)
[14:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, the issue is that the team give access to the ppa and ubuntu proper
[14:54] <seb128> even if you don't use the right to upload to ubuntu it was not done in the rules
[14:54] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - cool, thanks
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> (sorry, just popped out to grab some lunch)
[14:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, things like not renaming the gnome-keyring library to match the soname shows you might benefit from some reviewing before upload still
[14:57] <seb128> rodrigo_, it shouldn't be lot of extra work since in theory you needed review still, it just mean we have to run the merge and upload commands for you after review
[14:57] <seb128> we have enough people in the team that it should not be an issue
[14:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh no, I'm ok with the reviews, I know I need them
[14:58] <seb128> ok great
[14:58] <seb128> I will reply to the list now
[14:59] <seb128> need another session restart before though
[15:14] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, mterry, looks like some team changes today?
[15:15] <rickspencer3> congrats kenvandine!
[15:15] <rickspencer3> way to go mterry!
[15:15] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, thx!
[15:15] <mterry> rickspencer3, :)
[15:15] <mterry> seb128, thanks!
[15:19] <bilalakhtar> mterry: I saw your application on the ubuntu-desktop ML. HAven't you been added already? then what is the point of sending an application?
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - what do i need to do to get xulrunner-2.0 in to main btw? (it's basically going to replace xulrunner-1.9.2)
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> i wanted to get everything in main ported this week so we can drop the old one to universe
[15:21] <cyphermox> bilalakhtar, there was an email from micah on the list, there were no announces/applications before mterry joined the team
[15:21] <bilalakhtar> cyphermox: I know that
[15:21] <cyphermox> bilalakhtar, sending an application just confirms there is people to ack him :)
[15:22] <mterry> bilalakhtar, point was to try to follow process after having broken it
[15:22] <bilalakhtar> but there is no point in 'doing what was supposed to have been done' since the result has come already: mterry has joined
[15:22] <bilalakhtar> mterry: ^
[15:22] <bilalakhtar> okay
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> congrats mterry ;)
[15:22] <mterry> chrisccoulson, thanks  :)
[15:22] <bilalakhtar> congrats mterry ! ( I congratulated you when you actually joined)
[15:22] <mterry> bilalakhtar, :)
[15:23] <seb128> bilalakhtar, we shouldn't have added him without doing that
[15:23] <seb128> so we are fixing it
[15:24] <bilalakhtar> hmm
[15:24] <bilalakhtar> and why is rodrigo_ out of the team
[15:24] <bilalakhtar> ?
[15:24] <rodrigo_> they don't like me :(
[15:24] <kklimonda> he misbehaves!
[15:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ask me nicely? :-)
[15:25] <seb128> bilalakhtar, will follow up on the list with that in a but, but basically he's not ready yet to get the acks he needs
[15:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it's not built yet, BTW, is that expected?
[15:25] <seb128> we don't have a way to give ppa access without upload rights
[15:25] <bilalakhtar> hmm
[15:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I promoted the source to main
[15:25] <bilalakhtar> that would mean splitting the already-awesome ~ubuntu-desktop
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind promoting it to main for me please? (but perhaps after i have uploaded it with the extra xulrunner-dev and xulrunner-2.0-mozjs binaries too)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> oh, thanks :)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> (bit of a lag there) ;)
[15:26] <didrocks> cyphermox: did you find anything?
[15:26] <seb128> bilalakhtar, well not sure we need that, it just means rodrigo needs to have reviews until we confirm he doesn't need those
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i think it's built, but the binaries are in NEW
[15:26] <seb128> bilalakhtar, which is the best way to get feedback and learn what you still need
[15:26] <bilalakhtar> seb128: thanks for the info, sorry for the unnecessary discussion, I was just curious
[15:26] <seb128> no worry
[15:27] <cyphermox> didrocks, not for the other evolution packages, but I can't build them without e-d-s
[15:27] <didrocks> cyphermox: I'm speaking about the e-d-s FTBFS :)
[15:27] <cyphermox> so as soon as I'm ready for a merge I'll send that for e-d-s and go on to test the rest by pushing everything to a ppa
[15:27] <cyphermox> didrocks, right
[15:27] <cyphermox> well yeah, the e-d-s ftbfs is fixed
[15:28] <cyphermox> just wiaitng for pbuilder to finish building it
[15:28] <didrocks> cyphermox: ok, nice :)
[15:28] <cyphermox> there was indeed a fix in the 2.91 branch
[15:31] <cyphermox> didrocks, btw, the sru bugs are pretty much ready too, I'm just finishing up applying the patches ;)
[15:33] <didrocks> cyphermox: ok, thanks :)
[15:33] <czajkowski> kenvandine: ever seen where you launch gwibber in another desktop like #4 but it launches in desktop #1 every single time
[15:34] <kenvandine> czajkowski, humm
[15:34] <kenvandine> czajkowski, i can maybe see where that might happen
[15:35] <czajkowski> kenvandine: and this isn't even my special laptop, this is the work one
[15:35]  * bcurtiswx_ goes and tests
[15:36] <czajkowski> kenvandine: kinda annoying as I like things in different desktops 1 &2 being work 3 & 4 social
[15:36] <kenvandine> yeah... so gwibber saves it's window position
[15:36] <czajkowski> kenvandine: can I file a bug :D
[15:36] <kenvandine> i never really considered the position might not be relative to the current desktop
[15:36]  * bcurtiswx_ uses memenu and desktop #4 to launch gwibber.. and it launches in desktop #4 :-\
[15:36] <kenvandine> czajkowski, please file the bug :)
[15:37] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, so you closed the gwibber window and changed workspaces right?
[15:37] <kenvandine> i just tried it and it worked for me
[15:37] <kenvandine> closed in workspace 1
[15:37] <kenvandine> and switched to workspace 4
[15:38] <kenvandine> and clicked on it in the messaging menu
[15:38] <kenvandine> opened on workspace 4
[15:38] <bcurtiswx> i will test it exactly that way
[15:38] <kenvandine> czajkowski, actually... are you closing the window?
[15:39] <bcurtiswx> yeah, works. i even closed in workspace 4.. opened on memenu on desktop 1 and opened in desktop 1
[15:39] <kenvandine> if you minimize it, it will just raise on the workspace it was minimized on
[15:39] <czajkowski> kenvandine: closing which window ?|
[15:39] <kenvandine> gwibber
[15:39] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/680530
[15:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 680530 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Gwibber doesnt launch in the desktop I launch it from (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[15:40] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I launch it via the desktop and me memue when I'm on the #4 desktop
[15:40] <kenvandine> yeah, but is it already open somewhere?
[15:40] <kenvandine> or minimized?
[15:40] <czajkowski> nope
[15:40] <czajkowski> this is when I start up pc in the morning
[15:41] <bcurtiswx> czajkowski, first launch?
[15:41] <czajkowski> bcurtiswx: yes
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, side effect of having xulrunner-2.0 in main now - i can't upload it ;)
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> are you able to add it to the mozilla packageset, or does somebody else need to do that?
[15:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hang on, currently juggling SRU kernels
[15:47] <pitti> I can
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks :)
[15:47] <bcurtiswx> czajkowski, can you reproduce by quitting and launching empathy without a restart?
[15:47] <bcurtiswx> eek
[15:47] <bcurtiswx> czajkowski, gwibber not empathy
[15:47] <bcurtiswx> i have empathy on the brain :X
[15:49] <rodrigo_> pitti, I can still upload to the PPA right?
[15:49] <rodrigo_> pitti, and push to the ubuntugtk3 branches?
[15:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I see that xulrunner-1.9.2 is in the mozilla package set
[15:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I added -2.0; try uploading again?
[15:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, will try that now
[15:53] <czajkowski> bcurtiswx: sure let me try , in the middle of wiping a mac and putting lenny on it here, so things are breaking
[15:53] <pitti> rodrigo_: not sure about the owner of the ubuntugtk3 branches; the PPA is owned by ~ubuntu-desktop, so you'd need sponsoring there; but that's kind of the point, it will make us review stuff and then officially approve you quickly :)
[15:56] <mvo> hey jcastro - I re-activated the daily builds for s-c :) https://code.launchpad.net/~software-store-developers/+archive/daily-build
[15:56] <jcastro> ooh nice, tweet fodder.
[15:56] <bcurtiswx> czajkowski, OK.  Im gonna head out for a bit.  i'll check PM's later
[15:56] <mvo> lol, test it first ;)
[15:56]  * mvo goes and finds a maverick machine
[15:58] <seb128> re
[15:58] <seb128> sorry internet got flacky for a bit
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that worked now btw
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[16:01] <pitti> cool
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> now to updated couchdb to not pull in the entire toolkit :)
[16:01] <pitti> go, chrisccoulson, go!
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> **update
[16:01] <seb128> ;-)
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> :)
[16:02] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: Setting up xulrunner-1.9.2 (<IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu2) ...
[16:02] <Sarvatt> dpkg: error processing xulrunner-1.9.2 (--configure):
[16:02] <Sarvatt> hung forever and had to kill it
[16:03] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, oh, bugger, i thought that was fixed
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, i386?
[16:04]  * Sarvatt nods
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, bug 663294 most likely
[16:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 663294 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie (affects: 3) (heat: 120)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt - mind attaching GDB to it?
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> it's the xulrunner-1.9.2 process called from the postinst script which hangs
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> you might need to manually unpack the debug symbols
[16:07] <chrisccoulson> i'm tempted to just switch xr-192 to gcc-4.4. we're going to kill it entirely this cycle anyway
[16:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, so, asked pitti about the PPA and the ubuntugtk3 branches, so just to confirm, I need review and an uploader for those, right?
[16:07] <chrisccoulson> i don't really want to be spending time fixing it when it's going to get dropped from the archive
[16:07] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[16:07] <seb128> rodrigo_, just ping on the channel, I will try to be responsive for those
[16:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, I will also review things already in the ppa, do you have anything pending sponsoring to natty or the ppa?
[16:08] <jcastro> Laney: ok so I wasn't aware the MIR deadline for banshee was today.
[16:08] <jcastro> otherwise I would have bothered you much sooner. :)
[16:08] <Laney> was it?
[16:08] <Laney> nobody told me
[16:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, one branch, the rest was before the decision, so I uploaded/pushed them -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/add-libgnome-control-center/+merge/41617
[16:09] <jcastro> ok so we have until thursday to sort it out I guess
[16:09] <didrocks> Laney: jcastro: not really a MIR deadline, but if we want to change the seed for A1, thursday is the cut off, the time for the MIR to be reviewed and such…
[16:09] <jcastro> and I suppose it's on me to convince asac to be nice
[16:09] <czajkowski> bcurtiswx: killed all gwibbers, and started it again from desktop and on #4 it launched in #1 again
[16:09] <didrocks> asac is always nice :)
[16:09] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: might take awhile while I try to work out how to get more info from it but i'm trying :)
[16:09] <Laney> heh
[16:09] <Laney> i'll do my best tonight
[16:09] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, waiting for the launchpad diff and I will review it
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, sure, no worries
[16:09] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> i can't test this easily as i'm not on i386, and it seems to be arch-specific
[16:10] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, hey, how is the nm-indicator thing going?
[16:10] <jcastro> didrocks: this will end up costing me a few bottles of whiskey, I am sure.
[16:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, seems the sort of change where review is useful
[16:10] <didrocks> jcastro: not only "a few", I'm afraid for you :)
[16:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, all my changes need review, yes :-)
[16:10] <jcastro> didrocks: let's hope Laney doesn't have expensive taste
[16:11] <seb128> rodrigo_, well easy updates are usually fine, but renaming etc are less obvious
[16:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, just been pushing/uploading to the PPA because it was going to be reviewed afterwards
[16:11] <didrocks> jcastro: :)
[16:11] <cyphermox> rickspencer3, well, I was going to wait until after the holidays to start, which is once upstream has done some API cleanup. That said, I already have a draft that kind of works since UDS
[16:11] <seb128> rodrigo_, right
[16:11] <Laney> jcastro: seeing banshee by default is intoxicating enough for me ;)
[16:11] <cyphermox> this is in addition to some of the additional features that will be added this cycle in libappindicator that will help a lot
[16:11] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, does it work at all?
[16:12] <cyphermox> rickspencer3, right now, partly. I can't easily build the list of networks
[16:12] <jcastro> Laney: did we ever come up with a final number for the swap wrt. disk space?
[16:12] <cyphermox> there is something I can try to fix it though
[16:12] <cyphermox> rickspencer3, I assume you're saying this because you'd like to see something by alpha 1 ? :)
[16:12] <Laney> jcastro: estimate about 2500kb, but it's difficult to know for sure
[16:13] <jcastro> didrocks: ^ See, that wasn't so bad!
[16:13] <Laney> that is our rough estimate of CD impact with stripping out translations
[16:13] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, is the only thing blocking that users would have to use "connect to a hidden wireless network ... " to connect?
[16:13] <didrocks> Laney: jcastro: nice! tells that to pitti, he's the first concerned :)
[16:13] <Laney> btw, does pkgstriptranslations only look in /u/s/locale?
[16:13] <cyphermox> rickspencer3, I guess that would be a way to make it work for now
[16:14] <Laney> we were discussing whether it strips user help translations too
[16:14] <pitti> Laney: cool!
[16:14] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, can we talk in #ayatana?
[16:14] <cyphermox> rickspencer3, I also have an issue with icons, but I can more or less work around that
[16:14] <cyphermox> sure
[16:14] <pitti> Laney: yes, we also help gnome help translations of main packages, and put them into langpacks
[16:14] <Laney> ah cool
[16:14] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xulrunner-1.9.2.txt
[16:14] <Laney> might be a little bit ore then
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, thanks. so, it looks like the same issue, which should have gone away with -pie :/
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> i'll try a build with all the build hardening switched off for now
[16:22] <mvo> tremolux: check s-c trunk, the startup-speed stuff is merged now
[16:23] <tremolux> mvo: I saw that, thanks!  \o/
[16:25] <pitti> jasoncwarner1: good morning! you'll chair today?
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, oh, I see what's wrong
[16:26] <jasoncwarner1> Sure thing!
[16:26] <pitti> (we start in 4, right?)
[16:26] <Sarvatt> doh, should look before I accept dist-upgrades eh, evolution removed :)
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> i have a version check in debian/rules to switch off -pie in natty, but i removed the lsb_release calls to get the current distro version by accident a few commits ago
[16:27]  * chrisccoulson crawls in a dark corner
[16:28] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: phew, at least its not the toolchain again :)
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> although, the original issue is with the toolchain ;)
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> but this one is my fault
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> the buildd's are going to love me today
[16:30] <jasoncwarner1> Ok, if my day light saving times didn't mess up again, is it that time?
[16:30] <jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-24
[16:30] <rodrigo_> jasoncwarner1, yes, seems so :)
[16:30] <pitti> jasoncwarner1: right
[16:31] <rodrigo_> ugh, the status reports have disappeared from that page
[16:31] <pitti> jasoncwarner1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
[16:31]  * rodrigo_ added his this morning
[16:31] <rodrigo_> ah, ok :)
[16:31] <pitti> that's because in Jason's world it's already Wednesday :)
[16:31] <rodrigo_> heh
[16:31] <jasoncwarner1> oops! :)
[16:31] <jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
[16:31]  * pitti deletes the empty -24 page
[16:32] <pitti> jasoncwarner1: ain't timezones fun?
[16:32] <kenvandine> :)
[16:32]  * jasoncwarner1 spites time travel and timezones
[16:32] <jasoncwarner1> I can't think about timezones normally, let alone this early ;)
[16:32] <seb128> hey everybody
[16:33] <seb128> would be nice to highlight all team members
[16:33] <jasoncwarner1> Well, here is the quick agenda, but kenvandine needs to go first so he can leave to take care of something.
[16:33] <didrocks> hey
[16:33] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:33] <pitti> bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_: meeting o'clock
[16:33] <tremolux> heya all
[16:33] <mterry> yup
[16:33] <jasoncwarner1> seb128: did you want to go around ? is that what you were thinking?
[16:33] <Riddell> meeting!
[16:34] <pitti> jasoncwarner1: just the above, to "wake up" everyone
[16:34]  * rodrigo_ wakes up
[16:34]  * kenvandine yawns
[16:34] <kenvandine> :)
[16:35]  * kenvandine jumps in with a partner update so i can make it to pick up one of my kids on time :)
[16:35] <kenvandine> Ubuntu One
[16:35] <kenvandine>  work items are all entered and tracked (yay, that drove me nuts last cycle)
[16:35] <kenvandine>  desktopcouch improvements are close to landing in natty, hopefully this week
[16:36] <kenvandine> they have been spending quite a bit of time fixing up infrastructure problems, so lets hope it gets more reliable soon
[16:36] <kenvandine> DX
[16:36] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, no, just a:
[16:36] <seb128> didrocks, kenvandine, chrisccoulson, pitti, Riddell, mterry, ...: hello
[16:36] <kenvandine>  GDBus port is well underway, but we won't be getting that uploaded to natty until after A1.  It will require the entire indicator stack to be uploaded together
[16:36] <chrisccoulson> hi! :)
[16:36] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, so people who didn't notice the time get their IRC blinking
[16:36] <kenvandine> with the exception of libdee and libzg port to GDBus should make it in before A1
[16:36] <seb128> ;-)
[16:36] <kenvandine> those can be done individually
[16:37] <kenvandine>  dbusmenu build problems on natty
[16:37] <pitti> kenvandine: not quite sure why? you can certainly port both sides of the d-bus separately? or am I missing something?
[16:37] <pitti> i. e. each -service process can be ported individually?
[16:37] <kenvandine> they said they need all the indicators ported at the same time as libindicator, etc
[16:38] <kenvandine> it is a pretty delicate mesh of packages... it seems
[16:38] <pitti> well, let's not dwell on it; if it all lands early, fine :)
[16:38] <kenvandine> :)
[16:38] <kenvandine> 2 weeks :)
[16:38] <kenvandine> dbusmenu build problems on natty
[16:38] <seb128> kenvandine, what about the gtk3 builds?
[16:38] <kenvandine> found problems in gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 related to gir and vapigen, fixed in natty already
[16:38] <kenvandine> GIRs created in natty includes more information, including class info, which is causing problems with the generated GIR in dbusmenu, ted is looking at that.
[16:38] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^
[16:39] <kenvandine> still doesn't build with gtk2 on natty
[16:39] <kenvandine> much less gtk3 :)
[16:39] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, oh, I'm having problems with gtk2 gir for the invest applet, so is the package already available?
[16:39] <kenvandine> he needs to look at why the class info generated in his GIR is wrong
[16:39] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, yes
[16:39] <rodrigo_> ok, will try later
[16:39] <kenvandine> :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> any questions?
[16:39]  * kenvandine really needs to run out... sorry folks :)
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1> Later kenvandine!
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1> thanks
[16:40] <kenvandine> i read back when i get back
[16:40] <kenvandine> :)
[16:40] <rodrigo_> later kenvandine
[16:40] <seb128> kenvandine, later
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1> robert_ancell wanted to talk about meeting format, but I figure we should have that at the end.
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1> Here is the stated agenda for now.
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1> Agenda
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Partner Update
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Kubuntu Update
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * X Update
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Unity Update
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * USC Update
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Release Bugs/Release Status
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Review activity reports
[16:40] <jasoncwarner1>     * Any other business
[16:41] <jasoncwarner1> partner update got bumped up, so done.
[16:41] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm a bit concerned about those build issues being there for 2 weeks now and I guess thanksgiving will not help this week
[16:41] <seb128> but we can talk about that later
[16:41] <jasoncwarner1> I don't see any oustanding actions from last meeting.
[16:41] <jasoncwarner1> Can anyone remember any that weren't captured in the wiki
[16:42] <pitti> there was "[robert_ancell] Email team about meeting/action items format " which is done
[16:42] <pitti> and some actions carried over which I failed to add to the wiki page
[16:42] <pitti> jasoncwarner - follow up with tkamppeter about paper size bp
[16:43] <pitti> it seems most of this is getting done in bug reports now
[16:43] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: that is done, but I don't have an update for wiki yet.
[16:43] <pitti> doko/riddell - investigate ARM issue with kubuntu
[16:43] <pitti> unknown
[16:43] <pitti> and finally, "prepare initial release page", which is done: prepare initial release page
[16:43] <pitti> sorry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:43] <Riddell>   * Qt still broken on ARM, patch to GCC sent upstream for review, am told GCC won't get uploaded until after Alpha 1 so broken until then
[16:45] <pitti> Riddell: is that blocking anything on your side?
[16:45] <jasoncwarner1> ok, robert_ancell meeting format discussion we can have as the conclusion to this meeting :)
[16:45] <Riddell> pitti: only working ARM images
[16:46] <pitti> Riddell: I guess not a biggie for A1?
[16:46] <Riddell> not my main concern no
[16:47] <jasoncwarner1> well, why don't we roll with Riddell updating and move right into Kubuntu update?
[16:47] <Riddell>   * Qt graphics system set to raster in Kubuntu, makes things smoother and faster.  openoffice broken though, need maintainer to make 1 line patch, any chance of one appearing soon?
[16:47] <Riddell>   * Phonon set to GStreamer by default
[16:47] <Riddell>   * Patience game on the CD after package splitting, long standing request
[16:47] <Riddell>   * KDE SC 4.5 Beta 1 in progress, lots of problems with this upstrem (compile failure, missing dependencies) so slow going
[16:48] <pitti> Riddell: you can commit it to the bzr for now if you like
[16:48] <Riddell> pitti: commit which?
[16:48] <pitti> Riddell: the OO.o one-liner
[16:48] <Riddell> pitti: I need someone's help to find where in the 500MB of OO.o it needs to go
[16:48] <pitti> Riddell: I seriously doublt that the entire OO.o will just build with gcc-4.5, so right now I doubt that we can do a quick test build
[16:49] <pitti> Riddell: oh, the packaging bzr is rather small
[16:49] <pitti> Riddell: there's a patches/ directory
[16:49] <pitti> Riddell: or just keep it in a bug report, and we assign it to the OO.o maintainer once we have one :)
[16:50] <pitti> (should that be LO.o now?)
[16:50] <jasoncwarner1> Riddell: re: OO.o/LibO maintainer. Fingers crossed that we have someone working fulltime on LibO by early/mid Dec. It would be a huge win for all of us!
[16:50] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: I think it is LibO, from what I've seen
[16:51] <jasoncwarner1> Riddell: thanks for the updates. Any questions for Kubuntu update?
[16:51] <jasoncwarner1> next item on the list is X Update otherwise
[16:51] <pitti> I guess we should move this point to the Eastern edition
[16:51] <pitti> since both bryceh and RAOF will be there nwo
[16:51] <pitti> now
[16:51] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: forgot, you are correct (noted)
[16:52] <pitti> we'll read it on the wiki later on
[16:52] <jasoncwarner1> then can we get a drumroll for Unity Update?  :)
[16:52] <pitti> *drumrolllllllllllll*
[16:52] <didrocks>  * New unity release this week, with a late release of bamf on Monday fixing a lot of crashes (all my fault, it was a dput away…)
[16:52] <didrocks>  * Next release will mean unity by default, ready for A1 (existing Natty user won't be migrated as compiz doesn't allow that: when you use the new compiz version, the list of settings aren't refreshed from the default) and fallback session.
[16:52] <didrocks>  * Detection is ready, will be pulled with tomorrow compiz snapshot
[16:52] <didrocks>  * upgrade from maverick and gconf backend will be pulled too as a distro patch and the new compiz snapshot
[16:53] <didrocks> (there is still this pending gnome-panel issue we should sort of)
[16:53] <didrocks>  * oh, and UNE has been killed this week :)
[16:53] <pitti> didrocks: detection> so we'll always start compiz and this then falls back to metacity/panel/etc. somehow? or do we use gnome-wm to figure it out?
[16:53] <pitti> yay
[16:54] <didrocks> pitti: depends on what we decides in the thread on ubuntu-desktop ML. We can do that, but we will break users who don't have compiz installed which used "Command Line upgrade" + uninstall
[16:54] <pitti> ok, let's discuss that on the ML then
[16:55] <jasoncwarner1> didrocks: existing natty users won't be upgraded to latest compiz this time? Something manual needs to happen? (clarifying for me mostly)
[16:56] <didrocks> jasoncwarner1: they will have latest compiz, not latest default settings
[16:56] <rodrigo_> didrocks, we can patch gnome-wm to select the correct one on detection?
[16:56] <didrocks> jasoncwarner1: when compiz dump its settings it's considered as beeing changed by the user
[16:57] <didrocks> rodrigo_: well, not that simple. I've made some examples in the email I sent latly in ubuntu-desktop ML
[16:57] <rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, didn't read it, will do later and answer any idea, if I have one :)
[16:57] <jasoncwarner1> didrocks: thanks.
[16:58] <jasoncwarner1> any unity questions?
[16:58] <jasoncwarner1> Anyone not running Natty or Unity at this point?
[16:58]  * tremolux raises hand
[16:59]  * pitti runs natty with standard GNOME
[16:59] <seb128> I'm not
[16:59] <tremolux> I plan to do it this week
[16:59] <seb128> I need a working system ;-)
[16:59]  * rodrigo_ runs natty with standard gnome also
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> i'm running standard GNOME too
[16:59] <pitti> still need to get used to it, and the extra space on the left side
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't work too well with more than 1 monitor either
[17:00] <didrocks> pitti: autohide launcher + floating bar
[17:00] <pitti> didrocks: ooh, you can hide the launcher now?
[17:00] <didrocks> in ccsm
[17:00] <didrocks> yeah :)
[17:00] <pitti> nice
[17:00] <didrocks> there are two options
[17:00] <tremolux> didrocks: ah!  nice
[17:00] <didrocks> both are a must-checked! :)
[17:00] <pitti> then it won't take more space than my gnome panel right now
[17:01] <jasoncwarner1> Ok...can we agree that for this cycle we would run natty w/ unity to 1. work out bugs with DX team 2. patch where possible and 3. set the example for the world at large! :)
[17:01] <seb128> yes
[17:02] <didrocks> jasoncwarner1: I think once A1 is out, it makes sense :)
[17:02] <pitti> right
[17:02] <didrocks> wew will have a nice-to-work-on with stable compiz and such
[17:02] <jasoncwarner1> Cool...thanks, guys...
[17:02] <jasoncwarner1> btw
[17:02] <jasoncwarner1> I fully expect an email from Telstra here in AU
[17:02] <jasoncwarner1> still not full internet...just a 3G card
[17:02] <jasoncwarner1> I upgraded all my machines on it....
[17:03] <jasoncwarner1> they probably won't like that since I believe I have a 1 gig limit ;) (free loaner card ;) )
[17:03] <jasoncwarner1> Anyway...moving on.
[17:03] <jasoncwarner1> USC update? tremolux?
[17:03] <tremolux> sure thing
[17:03] <tremolux> * Startup performance:  great progress this week with startup time reduced well over 1s (~35% improvement on my laptop)
[17:03] <tremolux>   * Lazy-loading of history view, other optimizations and more on the way
[17:03] <tremolux>   * Coming soon: automatic daily startup time measurements on reference H/W (Dell Mini 10)
[17:03] <tremolux>  * Ratings and Reviews:  server-side progress continues, client-side UI spec'd at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews
[17:03] <tremolux>  * Released Software Center 3.1.2 this week with current performance optimizations and many nice fixes and improvements
[17:04] <tremolux> that's all  :)
[17:04] <jasoncwarner1> tremolux: thanks. Any questions?
[17:05] <jasoncwarner1> Next topic: Release Bugs/Release Status
[17:05] <pitti> we had the first natty release meeting last Friday
[17:05] <pitti> so I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:05] <pitti> we are falling behind a little on the A1 chart, but nothing too worrying yet
[17:05] <pitti> and RC bugs are still under control
[17:06] <pitti> so nothing noteworthy from my side for the meeting; anyone else knows something which we should track at this early point?
[17:08] <pitti> seems not -> done
[17:08] <jasoncwarner1> cool....
[17:08] <jasoncwarner1> Any other business to report before we officially close and give the floor to format discussion?
[17:09] <jasoncwarner1> I guess not ;)
[17:10] <jasoncwarner1> Ok. Robert isn't here so I hope I can do his thoughts justice, but everyone should have gotten his email. Any thoughts on meeting format/
[17:10] <jasoncwarner1> ?
[17:10] <seb128> was the meeting format in discussion?
[17:10] <seb128> I had the impression it was rather than the meeting is not enough and that the activity report format is not suited to reflect what we do
[17:11] <seb128> so that we need to improve communication by taking extra notes or blog
[17:12] <seb128> or tweat
[17:12] <jasoncwarner1> seb128: I took it to be that the information provided was useful for some expressed purposes, but not others.
[17:12] <rodrigo_> or use more the mailing list
[17:12] <jasoncwarner1> seb128: true...you are right
[17:13] <pitti> we don't usually have a lot of "custom" agenda items for the meeting, mostly because we seem to discuss stuff as it happens on IRC
[17:13] <pitti> so the meeting is mostly for information exchange
[17:13] <pitti> which might not be the ideal channel, since that can just as well be read on the wiki beforehand
[17:13] <seb128> pitti, one of the concerns robert had was that only people on IRC during european and US hours get those infos
[17:13] <seb128> we don't have easy summary of what is being worked
[17:13] <pitti> but I do appreciate the possibility to have everyone online once a week and be able to ask questions
[17:13] <seb128> what help is needed
[17:14] <seb128> what people should be aware of, or careful about, etc
[17:14] <pitti> right, the status updates that we do here shold be on the wiki, too
[17:14] <pitti> like, kenvandine usually puts them there and copies to IRC
[17:14] <seb128> did you read robert's email?
[17:14] <pitti> yes, I did
[17:14] <seb128> well I think the main point was that we miss a summary of things like
[17:14] <pitti> so our weekly meeting wiki page should be a kind of weekly status report for people interested in the details
[17:15] <seb128> "dbusmenu update to gtk3 is being worked by kenvandine but blocked on gir issues"
[17:15] <seb128> "you might want to be careful about the recent gtk update"
[17:15] <pitti> but that's the stuff that people shold put into their weekly report, no?
[17:15] <seb128> well I think we agreed the meeting is useful and don't want to drop it
[17:16] <seb128> but we need something dynamic which has a day to day summary
[17:16] <seb128> like something .au guys could read in a few hours when they start their day which tell them what happened today
[17:16] <seb128> on what they could help
[17:16] <seb128> that would also be useful to get extra community involvement
[17:16] <rodrigo_> yeah, that would be useful also for newcomers like me, and community people
[17:17] <Sarvatt> bryceh, RAOF: sorry I'm in 2 meetings at the same time here but in case it helps for the eastern meeting here's a summary of the X updates last week - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/20101123-X-Updates.txt
[17:17] <seb128> pitti, dumping what we did once a week doesn't really help people to jump in task or getting help during the week
[17:17] <seb128> not sure if you see what I mean
[17:18] <seb128> we have lot of email discussion rounds between a few people recently to get status updates on what's going on with things like some GNOME3 updates
[17:18] <seb128> or gtk3
[17:18] <seb128> or dbusmenu gir issues and what is blocking gtk3 builds
[17:18] <rodrigo_> I think all those discussions should go to the mailing list
[17:19] <seb128> well mailing list is nice for discussions
[17:19] <rodrigo_> yeah
[17:19] <didrocks> issues or help needed -> ML
[17:19] <seb128> not really for taking a few notes
[17:19] <seb128> didrocks, not really
[17:19] <seb128> like robert dropped me some emails last week
[17:19] <seb128> "start on totem and gtk3 but got blocked by a python crash"
[17:19] <didrocks> report, few notes or parts of what's going on -> Wiki
[17:19] <seb128> "started on the rb update but it's crashing"
[17:20] <seb128> didrocks, I hate wikis
[17:20] <didrocks> really a day to day?
[17:20] <pitti> seb128: I see what you mean, but writing day-to-day reports is quite a lot of additional overhead IMHO
[17:20] <seb128> not reports
[17:20] <seb128> but just having a whiteboard for people who want to dump notes at least
[17:20] <seb128> and maybe having somebody blogging interesting things once a way
[17:20] <seb128> way -> week
[17:20] <didrocks> some kind of etherpad to annotate and such?
[17:20] <seb128> didrocks, right
[17:21] <seb128> we suggested etherpad or status.net
[17:21] <pitti> besides our firehose of email and IRC that'd be yet another thing to watch out for..
[17:21] <jasoncwarner1> I think that is why someone suggested status updates (what is that called...status.ubuntu.com? )
[17:21] <seb128> pitti, nobody ask you to watch for
[17:22] <seb128> but it could cut some noise from IRC
[17:22] <didrocks> hum, need to tweet and have another way to be disturbed, but I can understand the rationale
[17:22] <seb128> well I think the main point is to be able to let other people know things you want to share
[17:22] <seb128> you can't expect community people to jump in and help solving issue if there is nowhere they can see what needs help
[17:22] <pitti> they could (and do) ask here?
[17:23] <seb128> like someone could perhaps help kenvandine to get libdbusmenu work on natty
[17:23] <seb128> well the point is that ken could write he's blocked
[17:23] <seb128> so when robert starts his day he knows he could maybe help there
[17:23] <seb128> I think the main issue is that ie robert_ancell has little clue of how he could be useful
[17:23] <seb128> he joins after we left
[17:23] <seb128> and there is nowhere for him to get those infos
[17:24] <pitti> for this it seems that he and you or me should have at least half an hour of overlap on the day
[17:24] <pitti> or if not, and you have stuff like that, you could just mail him?
[17:24] <seb128> well it's not only robert
[17:25] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: I think that solves the specific problem, but the general problem continues.
[17:25] <pitti> don't get me wrong, I don't object to other means
[17:25] <seb128> it could be mterry and robert
[17:25] <pitti> but it seems this is a rather specific problem and we might be overdesigning stuff here
[17:25] <seb128> or it could be some contributor who is watching what we do (or not because there is no place now to watch for those)
[17:25] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: we could be ! :) but it is probably worth talking about
[17:26] <pitti> we could try a kind of "status whiteboard" where everyone says what they are working on and what's blocking them
[17:26] <pitti> (as you proposed)
[17:27] <pitti> when I have stuff like that, I usually just /query people, but that might not work for everyone, of course
[17:27] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, sorry I feel I hijacked the discussion with my view of the issue
[17:27] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, you might want to drive back ;-)
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: you seem to be particularly affected by this, so that was helpful
[17:28] <seb128> pitti, well part of it is to have things eager contributors could jump in with
[17:28] <jasoncwarner1> seb128: you are the more appropriate person to have the discussion ;)
[17:28] <seb128> pitti, like kenvandine's libdbusmenu issue
[17:28] <pitti> seb128: for contributors I still think that IRC is better than a board; talking to people >> staring at a (potentially outdated) board, but perhaps that's just me
[17:28] <seb128> there might be some contributor out there which could fix it if he,she knew we were blocked on it
[17:29] <seb128> or that kenvandine would welcome help to figure what is wrong
[17:30] <seb128> pitti, well, query people means you reach somebody specific
[17:30] <seb128> it works fine for a small team
[17:30] <didrocks> (sorry, have to pop into another meeting, I have no strong opinion on that and will follow you guys, I'll read back)
[17:30] <pitti> right, I mean as a contributor I could just come to #u-desktop and ask what's up
[17:30] <seb128> depending on the time of the day and who is around or busy that will work or not
[17:31] <cyphermox> pitti, it can feel a little daunting to new contributors, especially towards the end of the release when things get really busy :)
[17:31] <pitti> well, let's just say that I'm willing to try something, but don't have proposals on my own, since apparenlty I don't have that problem so much
[17:32] <jasoncwarner1> How about this, to limit the scope of the initial challenge, focus on the team and see if it works ?
[17:32] <jasoncwarner1> if it works, we can see if that same solution works on a broader sense?
[17:33] <jasoncwarner1> that might be helpful so we don't start to chase ourselves down the rabbit hole....
[17:33] <cyphermox> would it make sense for a different person each week to somewhat keep track of what goes on and publish that somewhere?
[17:33] <tremolux> seems we are just talking about adding something "sticky", so maybe start lightweight with an etherpad page and add the link to the "If you want to help out" list at the IRC header
[17:33] <pitti> cyphermox: we already have the weekly wiki page for that
[17:34] <cyphermox> pitti, right
[17:34] <pitti> there's certainly ways to improve that
[17:34] <seb128> right
[17:34] <pitti> and we probably should start to mail that around again
[17:34] <seb128> ok, I see we have several issues and I raised only one there
[17:34] <pitti> (we did in the past)
[17:34] <seb128> so issues are
[17:34] <seb128> - the activity report are focussed on describing what we did task by task
[17:35] <seb128> where they would better be "things that readers could be interested in"
[17:35] <seb128> like coming transitions, breakages
[17:35] <seb128> important technologies landing
[17:35] <seb128> we do list all the updates we did, sponsoring, etc
[17:35] <seb128> we should maybe change that
[17:35] <pitti> well, I try to do that already
[17:36] <pitti> I don't mention stuff like email, bug triaging, archive admin, SRU processing etc. any more
[17:36] <seb128> I don't, or didn't until robert pointed it
[17:36] <pitti> but I do write stuff like "fix startup crash in foo (#123)" or "port foo to libbar"
[17:37] <seb128> right
[17:37] <pitti> indeed it shouldn't be a time sheet
[17:37] <seb128> but we don't write things like libdbus soname breakage coming next week, be ready
[17:37]  * jasoncwarner1 notes time. I have to run to a call in a few minutes
[17:38] <seb128> ok
[17:38] <jasoncwarner1> how about this
[17:38] <pitti> seb128: right, we could/should add that to the report
[17:38] <pitti> "Done:", "blocked by:", "plan for next week:"
[17:38] <pitti> ?
[17:39] <jasoncwarner1> final action from this meeting would be for all of us to think about this for the week, watch our daily activities and see how it can be improved given this discussion? It might be interesting?
[17:39] <jasoncwarner1> pitti: I love that format
[17:39] <seb128> pitti, would be a nice start I think
[17:39] <jasoncwarner1> especially "blocked by"
[17:39] <seb128> if you read the second email from robert, how do we get there
[17:39] <seb128> "* x new bugs were opened, y were closed
[17:39] <seb128> * We completed x items in the work tracker.  We are ahead of the trend
[17:39] <seb128> line.
[17:39] <seb128> * x packages were updated in natty."
[17:39] <seb128> etc
[17:39] <bryceh> seb128, that bit is scriptable
[17:39] <seb128> or rather things like
[17:40] <seb128> "* Remmina has replaced tsclient on the CD, please try it an let us
[17:40] <seb128> know if it is an improvement.
[17:40] <seb128> * We are behind in updating GNOME, please have a look at
[17:40] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html and help
[17:40] <seb128> out if you can"
[17:40] <seb128> the first ones are regular tracking
[17:40] <rodrigo_> in the u1 team, we did quick daily standups, with DONE, TODO, BLOCKED sections for each person
[17:40] <pitti> are the stats really taht interesting?
[17:40] <seb128> but I think one things we lack is a nice summary of what is happening
[17:40] <seb128> something we could blog about once a week
[17:40] <seb128> like having a desktop world blog
[17:40] <seb128> pitti, no, I picked the wrong lines
[17:40] <rodrigo_> not sure if daily is too much, but they were 5/10 mins maximum
[17:40] <bryceh> pitti, I don't think so.  Personally I think a graph would be better but even that is just for interest's sake really.
[17:40] <rodrigo_> and you knew what everyone was up to
[17:41] <seb128> not sure either
[17:41] <pitti> bryceh: I agree; it's more interesting what changed than how much; and #opened bugs isn't really all that related to what we do, too
[17:41] <bryceh> desktop world blog -- like it :-)
[17:41] <seb128> robert suggested that
[17:41] <seb128> pitti, bryceh: yeah, forget the metrics datas
[17:41] <pitti> rodrigo_: doesn't work that well with having people in all timezones
[17:41] <rodrigo_> yeah, right
[17:42] <seb128> ok
[17:42] <rodrigo_> but at least the eastern people could have a daily updater of what the western people are up to, and viceversa
[17:42] <seb128> so let's agree on some things to wrap
[17:42] <pitti> but such a summary could certainly be distilled from the individual reports on the weekly wiki report page
[17:42] <bryceh> problem with 'distilling' is that it imposes some secretarial work on some poor soul
[17:42] <seb128> is everybody ok with making the activity summaries reflect what would interest readers or contributors rather than being task lists?
[17:42] <bryceh> and with as many people are there are on the desktop team, that'd be non-trivial
[17:43] <seb128> which would include blocking issues and plans for next week if any?
[17:43] <bryceh> seb128, yes
[17:43] <pitti> seb128: +1
[17:43] <pitti> leave out the chore bits, and be more concrete
[17:43] <seb128> ok, great, so that's something
[17:43] <seb128> second, seems we need extra discussions
[17:43] <pitti> in the past I wrote stuff like "udev bug fixing", I now siwtched to "fix detection of DVD-RWs in udev"
[17:43] <seb128> but some people would like a whiteboard in some way
[17:43] <bryceh> needs more voting ;-)
[17:44] <seb128> etherpad, status.net
[17:44] <seb128> nobody would be forced to use it
[17:44] <seb128> but people could drop things they are blocking on
[17:44] <seb128> or tasks they would welcome help with
[17:44] <seb128> we can see if others pick those or if that's useful in some way
[17:45] <seb128> like an async light communication way out of IRC
[17:45] <bryceh> pitti, in fact we might even need to be a bit more verbose than usual if we intend it to be end-user readable
[17:45] <seb128> for people who don't overlap on IRC
[17:45] <pitti> bryceh: right, but in a different way; drop the uninteresting bits and make the interesting ones more verbose
[17:45] <bryceh> pitti, exactly
[17:46] <seb128> ok
[17:46] <seb128> so I think we have agreement on that one at least
[17:46] <bryceh> seb128, I like the idea of etherpad but I wonder if that might not be the easiest for end users to consume from.  Would someone be copying from there into a blog?
[17:47] <seb128> we need extra thinking about the whiteboard one
[17:47] <seb128> bryceh, that was my next point
[17:47] <seb128> ideally we would have someone each week doing a summary and blog or something
[17:47] <seb128> we could rotate on that
[17:47] <seb128> I don't really want to add extra tasks so maybe an opt-in from those interested
[17:47] <bryceh> I mean, we could just each write a blog entry, and then mechanically collate them via a planetplanet
[17:47] <seb128> could be community people as well
[17:48] <seb128> well if people want to blog they can already do that
[17:48] <seb128> but seems most in the team don't and I don't think we should add constrains or tasks
[17:48] <bryceh> seb128, I recall back when I started on desktop we would write up meeting summaries, but it was hard getting volunteers and somehow we stopped doing that
[17:49] <pitti> right, they were pretty much a text dump of the weekly wiki page
[17:49] <bryceh> so that's my one worry with adding a summary writing task
[17:49] <seb128> right
[17:49] <pitti> so if we make the wiki page more useful, that woudl be beneficial again, too
[17:49] <seb128> well maybe if we improve the activity report enough and have an etherpad
[17:49] <seb128> it would be easier for contributors or people outside the team to pick up and make a nice weekly summary
[17:49] <bryceh> yeah might be that fixing up activity reports is less work than writing meeting summaries had been
[17:50] <seb128> well if activity reports are nice it would be easy for someone to pick up the main points and blog or something
[17:50] <seb128> we might not need everything from the report
[17:50] <seb128> just a few highlights
[17:50] <pitti> (and include a link)
[17:50] <bryceh> how about rotate the task among desktoppers who are not doing patch pilot?  ;-)
[17:51] <bryceh> (kidding!)
[17:52] <seb128> lol
[17:52]  * tremolux dreams to grow up to be a Patch Pilot someday
[17:52] <tremolux> :D
[17:52] <seb128> anyway I think we are going round now
[17:52] <seb128> so let's agree to improve the activity report summary
[17:52] <bryceh> yeah sounds like we have a tangible enough plan
[17:52] <seb128> we can add the whiteboard or status.net for those who want
[17:53] <seb128> and let's see if we can motivate some contributor to pick up things from there and blog every now and then about what we do
[17:53] <seb128> one remaining thing
[17:53] <seb128> I find the unity, software-center, dx etc summary nice
[17:54] <pitti> *nod*
[17:54] <seb128> we should maybe have everybody in the team to do a short summary this way
[17:54] <seb128> of things they are doing
[17:54] <seb128> or maybe that's just "get the activity reports nicer"
[17:54] <pitti> was just going to say :)
[17:54] <seb128> maybe those should be the activity report from didrocks's week or tremolux's one
[17:54] <tremolux> back when I rotated to foundations, we called it "lightning round"
[17:54] <pitti> we actually did that in the past
[17:54] <pitti> I mean, haveing everyone standing up and paste their report
[17:55] <seb128> well I think we got bored to read those on IRC
[17:55] <seb128> or to wait from everybody to copy their summary
[17:55] <seb128> so maybe it should just be on the wiki
[17:55] <seb128> I think we are back to improve the activity reports
[17:55] <seb128> so let's wrap up ;-)
[17:55] <seb128> and see what we can do from those
[17:56] <seb128> we can probably learn a bit over time by seeing what format people come with exactly and what is nicer to read
[17:56] <bryceh> oh one other suggestion
[17:56] <seb128> I've the feeling that summaries to the one we do for unity etc every week now are what we want
[17:56] <bryceh> more screenshots, graphs, and other eye candy please :-)
[17:57] <seb128> summaries similar
[17:57] <bryceh> they'll make the reading more fun, and wiki supports embedding them
[17:57] <seb128> yeah, that would be nice as well
[17:57] <seb128> anybody having something to add?
[17:59] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, when you are back, I think we agreed on trying to improve the activity reports to be summary of what can be interesting to readers including blockers and what is coming next
[17:59] <seb128> rather than detailed list of items
[18:00] <seb128> with screenshots, etc if possible
[18:00] <seb128> jasoncwarner1, we might still want to think about how we could do dump day to day thoughts, ideas, call for help on issues, etc for next week
[18:01] <seb128> then we might want to try to see if can reach users in a better way than having them to go on the wiki
[18:01] <seb128> like select week highlights in the weekly summary and the whiteboard and blog about them
[18:01] <seb128>
[18:01] <seb128> ^ seems a correct summary to everybody?
[18:02] <mterry> yar
[18:02] <bryceh> yep
[18:02] <rodrigo_> yes
[18:02] <didrocks> yes!
[18:02]  * didrocks will add a blocker: "read the ubuntu-desktop ML" right now on the wiki :)
[18:02] <seb128> great, sorry for being verbose ;-)
[18:02] <seb128> lol
[18:02] <bryceh> hehe
[18:02] <rodrigo_> :)
[18:02] <seb128> didrocks, good point as well
[18:02] <seb128> we might want to move some of the discussions from IRC to lists
[18:02] <rodrigo_> +1
[18:03] <seb128> seems people get overpinged nowadays and we don't have everybody online at the same time
[18:03] <seb128> so we can probably reduce ping stress and include extra people in discussions by using the lists
[18:04] <didrocks> +1
[18:05] <seb128> ok, back to work
[18:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, did you get somewhere with gnome-applets?
[18:05] <seb128> jcastro, hey
[18:06] <jcastro> seb128: yes
[18:06] <seb128> jcastro, did you talk to tomboy's upstream since summit?
[18:06] <seb128> jcastro, do you know if he still plans to drop the applet this cycle?
[18:06] <rodrigo_> seb128, still fixing the invest applet, the package branch is ready but don't want to submit it until that is fixed
[18:06] <jcastro> about the quicklist thing?
[18:06] <jcastro> yeah, let me catch up with him again, I know he was behind on some things
[18:07] <didrocks> cyphermox: did you get somewhere with the e-d-s crash?
[18:07] <seb128> jcastro, I just want to make sure I will not create conflicts if I drop it in Ubuntu let's say now
[18:07] <didrocks> cyphermox: at least, if I can upload that before leaving, this will enable the other dep-wait to build
[18:07] <seb128> jcastro, when rodrigo_'s land his fixes for the invest applet we can get ride of the bonobo stack this way
[18:07]  * tremolux goes in search of lunch, bbl
[18:08] <seb128> jcastro, it's only a few applets keeping that in, tomboy being one
[18:09] <jcastro> seb128: ok, we can drop it
[18:10] <jcastro> he's going to continue to support it upstream for older stuff
[18:10] <jcastro> seb128: so I guess even in the fallback mode the applets will be gone?
[18:10] <seb128> jcastro, no, there is a bonobo compat binary
[18:10] <seb128> jcastro, we will just not install it by default
[18:11] <seb128> jcastro, if somebody wants an old applet there is just that binary to get
[18:11] <seb128> which will reinstall bonobo
[18:11] <jcastro> oh ok
[18:11] <seb128> jcastro, that and gnome-panel applets use dbus nowadays
[18:11] <jcastro> nod
[18:11] <cyphermox> didrocks, yes
[18:11] <jcastro> ok so I guess drop it next upload seb128?
[18:11] <seb128> so people can also port their applet to dbus
[18:12] <seb128> jcastro, yes
[18:12] <jcastro> he's had it off by default in upstream for a cycle he tells me
[18:12] <seb128> ok great
[18:12] <jcastro> are we going to have a party when Bonobo is gone?
[18:13] <rodrigo_> seb128, another review needed -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-bluetooth/2_91_2_release/+merge/41620
[18:13] <seb128> if you want ;-)
[18:13] <jcastro> I feel kind of ... sad. (Not really)
[18:13] <rodrigo_> jcastro, yes :)
[18:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I'm fixing g-c-c
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> did somebody just say PARTY? :)
[18:13] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, what was wrong?you already merged it right?
[18:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, I did, I'm doing a review now
[18:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, comments:
[18:14] <seb128> - you should not install the .la and .a for all the panels
[18:14] <seb128> just the .so should be enough
[18:14] <didrocks> cyphermox: hum, I'm leaving soon, so my question was: do you have the patch or a debdiff? :)
[18:14] <seb128> - the libg-c-c api documentation should be in a the lib -dev
[18:14] <cyphermox> hold on, I have a debdiff
[18:14] <seb128> not in capplets-data
[18:15] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[18:15] <seb128> - we should still have a gnome-control-center-dev I think
[18:15] <seb128> to ship gnome-default-applications.pc and gnome-keybindings.pc
[18:15] <rodrigo_> seb128, right
[18:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, are you fixing these or should I in another branch?
[18:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think that's it for now
[18:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, as you want
[18:16] <seb128> if you want to fix those tell me
[18:16] <seb128> otherwise I can do it
[18:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, let me fix it, so that I learn more :)
[18:16] <seb128> ok ;-)
[18:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can update standards-version to 3.9.1 while you are at it
[18:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-aboutme, --enable-gstreamer
[18:17] <seb128> as well to clean in the rules
[18:17] <cyphermox> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/535617/
[18:17] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[18:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, bonus point if you add a .symbols to the lib
[18:18] <didrocks> cyphermox: thanks, applying against the branch
[18:18] <cyphermox> didrocks, sorry, i trashed the branch as I was preparing the SRUs :/
[18:19] <didrocks> cyphermox: you should keep subdirectories with component/<ubuntu>;<maverick> and such…
[18:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can probably as well drop the gnome-keyboard-properties.1 from the debian dir
[18:19] <didrocks> cyphermox: no worry, I applied it and build now
[18:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, since the binary is not in the new version
[18:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think that's it
[18:20] <cyphermox> didrocks, I do use subdirectories for this stuff ;)
[18:20] <didrocks> cyphermox: seems not the right worflow then :)
[18:20] <didrocks> ok, building, let's see
[18:20] <cyphermox> hehe
[18:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, will fix those later, now out for a bit
[18:21] <seb128> rodrigo_, sure, tomorrow is fine no hurry
[18:34] <highvoltage> howdy!
[18:34] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[18:34] <highvoltage> we synced sabayon from debian which depends on gdm3
[18:35] <seb128> kenvandine, what is the status of the updates from ted? still blocked?
[18:35] <seb128> highvoltage, hey
[18:35] <seb128> highvoltage, we might want to patch it to not do that then
[18:35] <highvoltage> what's the plans for natty regarding that? should we wait for gdm3 to hit the archives or is Ubuntu staying with the old gdm until it gets replaced by something like lightdm?
[18:35] <seb128> old gdm?
[18:35] <kenvandine> still blocked
[18:35] <kenvandine> but he is working on it now
[18:35] <seb128> ubuntu is shipped gdm3 as gdm for 3 cycles
[18:36] <seb128> shipping
[18:36] <highvoltage> seb128: I was convinced that it was 2.30! ok.
[18:36] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, could you open a bug about the issue if that's not solved today?
[18:36] <kenvandine> sure
[18:36] <didrocks> cyphermox: sponsored, thanks!
[18:36] <seb128> highvoltage, what debian call gdm3 is 2.30
[18:36] <cyphermox> thx
[18:36] <seb128> highvoltage, http://packages.qa.debian.org/gdm3
[18:37] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[18:37] <highvoltage> seb128: ah, ok. in that case I'll just patch the package, thanks!
[18:37] <seb128> kenvandine, we might just have better visibility on the issue and people able to help if we have public tracking in a bug
[18:37] <seb128> highvoltage, thank you!
[18:38] <highvoltage> my pleasure
[18:40] <ari-tczew> seb128: what? gdm3 will be in ubuntu? I'm asking because I merged a couple of days ago meta-gnome2 and I had to change gdm3 => gdm since we have not gdm3 in archive
[18:41] <seb128> no
[18:41] <seb128> it's named gdm in ubuntu
[18:41] <seb128> the standard gdm is gdm3
[18:41] <highvoltage> ari-tczew: seems like the debian package just has a different name (gdm3) for what's called gdm in ubuntu
[18:41] <highvoltage> (so you did the right thing)
[18:42] <highvoltage> seb128: would it perhaps make sense to make gdm in ubuntu provide gdm3 rather than patching all these other packages?
[18:42] <highvoltage> (I guess there will be more)
[18:43] <ari-tczew> right, I see no sense
[18:43] <seb128> highvoltage, well, if our packaging is compatible
[18:43] <seb128> "   * 02_xsession.patch: use /etc/gdm3/Xsession."
[18:43] <seb128> I see that in sabayon
[18:43] <seb128> which suggests the packaging is different
[18:43] <highvoltage> ah, I see
[18:44] <seb128> having a provides would suggest things would work when they don't
[18:46] <highvoltage> seb128: ok, I'll change the dependency to gdm then and remove the patches
[18:46] <seb128> highvoltage, thanks
[18:50] <kenvandine> mterry, just looking at launchpad-integration
[18:50] <kenvandine> it might be a good idea to add this to lib/Makefile.am
[18:50] <kenvandine> LaunchpadIntegration_3_0_gir_PACKAGES = launchpad-integration
[18:50] <kenvandine> just in case at somepoint vapigen can't figure out the package, we don't need to try to figure out why :)
[18:57] <didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
[19:00] <kenvandine> later didrocks!
[19:00] <didrocks> see you kenvandine!
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> pitti - so xulrunner-2.0-mozjs has an installed size of 3664kB. that compares to 39964kB for the whole lot
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> not sure what that works out as in terms of compressed size on the CD
[19:17] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, nice!
[19:31] <mterry> kenvandine, thanks
[19:51] <albasheers> unable to boot my latop  , laptop stops at initramfs
[19:51] <dobey> albasheers: #ubuntu is probably a more appropriate place to ask
[19:51] <albasheers> ok
[19:52] <bcurtiswx> bigon, re: bug #620733 is there a decision that needs to be made that makes dconf depends instead of recommends ?
[19:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 620733 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy does not remember settings (affects: 12) (dups: 3) (heat: 70)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620733
[20:03] <bigon> bcurtiswx: well dconf is only a backend
[20:03] <bcurtiswx> bigon, without it setting are or are not stored somewhere?
[20:04] <Nafallo> without libdconf0 my settings didn't get saved for sure.
[20:04] <bigon> it's why it's a recommends
[20:04] <bcurtiswx> so our assumption in that case is most package managers install recommends by default ?
[20:05] <bigon> they should
[20:05] <bigon> This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
[20:05] <bigon> The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.
[20:06] <bcurtiswx> so do we just say to those without libdconf0 installed that its not a bug , and to install it and recommend they keeps recommends installed ?
[20:07] <bigon> well if the package is not pulled by default this is a problem, that's true
[20:07] <Nafallo> bigon: so we are assuming there will be people out there that want their application to not be able to save it's settings, is that the takeaway of the conversation then?
[20:08] <bigon> but not on the pkg side, but on the pkg manager side
[20:08] <bigon> IMHO
[20:12] <bcurtiswx> bigon, OK. thanks :)
[20:13] <Nafallo> in this specific case I'd say it's a packaging bug... saving and reading settings should not be optional actions.
[20:13] <Nafallo> recommends and suggestions should be for optional actions I'd say.
[20:15] <bigon> Nafallo: recommends is "always installed but unusual installation"
[20:15] <bigon> that seems to fit here
[20:15] <Nafallo> bigon: point out the unusual installation where you want the application to not save and read your settings?
[20:17] <Nafallo> I know what recommends are for. my issue with this is that I'm unable to see where it would make sense not being able to save your settings.
[20:17] <bigon> use another backend
[20:17] <bigon> that's the unusual installation
[20:18] <Nafallo> I would be happy to keep using gconf for empathy, but without libdconf0, the package doesn't fall back to gconf.
[20:18] <Nafallo> make it do that, and I wouldn't consider libdconf0 a dependency.
[20:18] <Nafallo> it needs to be able to fall back gracefully. not break and let the user find out why.
[20:20] <Nafallo> I'd be a lot happier with a depency of <what gconf package is> | libdconf0 and whatever else the application will automagically fall back on
[20:21] <Nafallo> in the current state,  the application is in a broken state unless libdconf0 is installed. how can this not be a grave enough issue to make it a depency?
[20:22] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: thanks again, the updated xulrunner-1.9.2 works here :)
[20:25] <bigon> Nafallo: well I'm not even sure that empathy should even recommends it, that should be IMHO glib package (dconf is a backend of GSettings, a glib part)
[20:26] <bigon> and to say everything I'm not even sure I've the rights to upload emapthy
[20:26] <Nafallo> hmm. so empathy should use gsettings by default and that should in turn find out where to store stuff? :-)
[20:27] <Nafallo> (all I know the application is broken without libdconf0 installed today, which makes bugs valid)
[20:29] <bigon> Nafallo: empathy is already using gsettings
[20:30] <Nafallo> bigon: hmm. so this is really a bug in gsettings not falling back to whatever backend is available then? :-)
[20:30] <Nafallo> cause that makes more sense to me.
[20:31] <Nafallo> hrm. actually... it would have to be more fun than that, wouldn't it :-/
[20:33]  * Nafallo goes to read up on gsettings
[20:34] <seb128> re
[20:34] <bigon> Nafallo: it's not falling back because there is no backend
[20:34] <seb128> Nafallo, catching up on backlog
[20:34] <seb128> Nafallo, dconf is a recommends because you could have your own backend and use that
[20:34] <seb128> we should probably do depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
[20:35] <seb128> we should probably do depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
[20:35] <seb128> ups
[20:35] <Nafallo> seb128: there you are! I was looking for you just now ;-)
[20:36] <seb128> well that's what said last cycle at the sprint
[20:36] <seb128> we just didn't get anybody in debian to buy in
[20:36] <Nafallo> seb128: if I read live.g.o correctly dconf is supposed to be the fallback? :-)
[20:36] <Nafallo> (for gsettings)
[20:36] <seb128> well it's the recommended backend for GNOME
[20:37] <seb128> but it's only one backend
[20:37] <bigon> I'm still wondering why dconf is not installed by default as recommends
[20:37] <seb128> so having a depends on it would be wrong
[20:37] <Nafallo> and gconf is deprecated, but can be a backend of gsettings?
[20:37] <seb128> well people like Nafallo probably use the command line to upgrade
[20:37] <seb128> they might decide to not install recommends by default
[20:37] <seb128> Nafallo, no it can't
[20:37] <Nafallo> seb128: not only that. I try to keep minimal packages installed, so recommends is high on my hit list ;-)
[20:38] <bcurtiswx> yeah i upgrade through apt-get, does apt-get install recommends b y default ?
[20:38] <seb128> it does
[20:38] <seb128> but reading through bugs I would not be surprised if there was buggy cases
[20:38] <seb128> especially when upgrading
[20:38] <seb128> like you had empathy install and you upgrade
[20:38] <seb128> it might not pick the new recommends
[20:39] <bcurtiswx> well if Nafallo is right and it defaults to dconf, then shouldn't that be depends ?
[20:39] <seb128> it would pick it if you did apt-get install it when it was not installed
[20:39] <bcurtiswx> because settings _need_ to be saved somehow
[20:39] <seb128> bcurtiswx, not without a | gsettings-backend
[20:39] <seb128> because you might be in a company which decide to do a ldap-gsettings
[20:39] <seb128> and you want to remove dconf and use it
[20:39] <seb128> which works
[20:40] <seb128> you should not have to rebuild everything using gsettings to drop the dconf backend depends
[20:40] <Nafallo> seb128: so... just because I just thought about it... say you have dconf with a lot of settings installed. then you install one of these other backends... what happens to all the settings?
[20:40] <seb128> Nafallo, I guess nothing
[20:40] <seb128> you need migration code in your backend
[20:41] <bcurtiswx> what backend does empath use by default ?
[20:41] <seb128> gsettings
[20:41] <Nafallo> (which is not the backend) :-)
[20:41] <seb128> well client application don't use a backend
[20:41] <seb128> that's the point
[20:42] <seb128> they should not have to bother what the storage is
[20:42] <Nafallo> the question needs to be what gsettings use by default
[20:42] <seb128> they use the gsettings api
[20:42] <Nafallo> but yeah... seb128 has said what we need ;-)
[20:42] <seb128> it's a theorical question
[20:42] <seb128> gsettings is a backend
[20:42] <bigon> what I can do is conflicts/replaces/provides gsettings-backend on dconf
[20:42] <seb128> it just doesn't have storage
[20:42] <bcurtiswx> OK, so onto what bigon and myself are wondering.. why wouldn't dconf get installed on a fresh install ?
[20:43] <seb128> which is fine for testing but that's about it
[20:43] <seb128> in practice you want a backend with storage
[20:43] <seb128> the only one is dconf so far I think
[20:43] <seb128> if you had several ones you would need to rank them
[20:43] <seb128> but that's a theorical issue so far because we have one
[20:43] <seb128> bcurtiswx, it gets installed on fresh installs
[20:44] <seb128> out of people who think they know better and don't need recommends
[20:44] <seb128> which might use command line and turn off recommends
[20:44] <Nafallo> I bet I de-installed it because I thought "crack, just use gconf, you muppet!" :-P
[20:44] <kenvandine> tedg, hey... i might have dbusmenu gir generation fixed
[20:44] <seb128> well you got what you deserved then ;-)
[20:45] <seb128> joke aside it's a bug
[20:45] <kenvandine> for both gtk2 and gtk3
[20:45] <kenvandine> tedg, let me send you the resulting file and see what you think
[20:45] <bigon> seb128: so libglib2.0-0 should depends on it
[20:45] <bcurtiswx> seb128, i have a bug where someone says it did not.  I wouldn't know what to ask in a triage standpoint
[20:45] <seb128> bigon, no
[20:45] <tedg> kenvandine, Woot!
[20:45] <Nafallo> seb128: je t'aime tu aussi ;-)
[20:45] <seb128> lol
[20:45] <Nafallo> bah. that was likely very broken for being french :-P
[20:46] <bigon> s/tu/toi :p
[20:46] <seb128> not very,
[20:46] <seb128> -tu rather
[20:46] <seb128> but "toi" would be correct at least
[20:46] <seb128> just a bit weird ;-)
[20:46] <Nafallo> heh, makes sense :-)
[20:46] <Nafallo> I'll do better next time you troll me :-P
[20:47] <seb128> well really applications should depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
[20:47] <seb128> then other backends can provide gsettings backend
[20:47] <seb128> if any other backend is written
[20:47] <seb128> which would solve the issue
[20:47] <Nafallo> hmm.
[20:47] <Nafallo> seb128: gsettings isn't a package in itself? :-)
[20:47] <seb128> no
[20:47] <seb128> it's part of glib
[20:48] <kenvandine> tedg, i sent it via jabber...
[20:48] <seb128> that's why we don't want to add the depends there
[20:48] <Nafallo> meh
[20:48] <Nafallo> okay.
[20:48] <seb128> lot of things use glib but not gio or gsettings
[20:48] <Nafallo> seb128: so... why can't dconf just be a gsettings-backend, fulfilling stuff depending on gsettings-backend that way?
[20:49] <seb128> because the usual packaging way is to use "thepreferredalternative | provide"
[20:49] <seb128> so the resolver picks correctly the preferred alternative
[20:49] <seb128> if you just use the provide you don't get a random behaviour when several provides are available
[20:49] <seb128> don't -> do
[20:50] <seb128> it's like "install dconf if not asking for another backend"
[20:50] <seb128> when your way would be "just pick one"
[20:50]  * Nafallo nods
[20:50] <bigon> seb128: in that case we need an extra wrapper (like for gconf) to add the dependency automatically don't we?
[20:50] <Nafallo> and we haven't got an alternative approach to that I guess :-P
[20:50] <seb128> it would be better to add it to the same way gconf is doing yes
[20:51] <Nafallo> seb128: hey... we should ask mvo to implement an alternative approach to this problem! ;-)
[20:52] <bcurtiswx> seb128, so what would we do for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/620733
[20:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 620733 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy does not remember settings (affects: 12) (dups: 3) (heat: 70)" [Undecided,New]
[20:53] <seb128> it's not a glib bug in any case
[20:53] <seb128> there is probably an apt bug there
[20:53] <seb128> it seems it doesn't install recommends in upgrade cases
[20:53] <seb128> which should be checked it's just a guess
[20:53] <Nafallo> seb128: I still don't agree it is a recommends :-)
[20:54] <Nafallo> (fwiw)
[20:54] <bcurtiswx> who are the apt people to ask ?
[20:54] <seb128> but seems like if you had empathy installed and apt-get upgrade it doesn't bring the new recommends in
[20:55]  * bcurtiswx has killed seb128 again
[20:55] <tedg> kenvandine, That looks sane to me.
[20:55] <kenvandine> great
[20:55] <Nafallo> bcurtiswx: maybe he got distracted by tetris...
[20:55] <kenvandine> tedg, i did some fiddling with scanner flags
[20:56] <kenvandine> tedg, i'll propose a merge in a few
[20:56] <tedg> kenvandine, Cool
[20:57] <bcurtiswx> wb seb128
[20:57] <seb128> ups
[20:57] <seb128> bcurtiswx, the apt person is probably mvo
[20:57] <bcurtiswx> that semicircle with a line in the opening is not a solve-all problem ya know :P
[20:57] <seb128> Nafallo, yeah, I agree, it should be a depends with an alternative
[20:57] <kenvandine> seb128, ok, i think i have the gir stuff with dbusmenu fixed
[20:58] <kenvandine> for both gtk2 and gtk3
[20:58] <seb128> kenvandine, you rock ;-)
[20:58] <seb128> kenvandine, what was it?
[20:58] <kenvandine> so i'll propose this branch then try to get the packaging right
[20:58] <bcurtiswx> when is mvo usually available ?
[20:58] <kenvandine> scanner flags
[20:58] <kenvandine> needed to add more
[20:58] <Nafallo> seb128: +555
[20:58] <kenvandine> to get the namespaces right
[20:59] <seb128> bcurtiswx, european work hours
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> UTC +2/3 ?
[20:59] <seb128> utc+1
[20:59] <seb128> starting at 9utc
[21:00] <bcurtiswx> OK, i'll try to remember to talk to him about that bug tomorrow
[21:00] <seb128> or a bit a before
[21:00] <seb128> ok
[21:00] <kenvandine> of course now gtk-docs don't build
[21:00]  * kenvandine fixes
[21:00] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, so easy enough once you know what to do
[21:00] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:00] <kenvandine> just the results we were getting were odd
[21:00] <kenvandine> GIR is maturing, becoming more complex :)
[21:01] <bcurtiswx> seb128, im assuming webkitgtk is still having problems building ?
[21:02] <seb128> bcurtiswx, the gtk3 version is in the ppa
[21:02] <seb128> if that's what you are asking there
[21:02] <seb128> bcurtiswx, you should have what you need to update empathy I would think
[21:02] <seb128> gnome-keyring and webkit are in the ppa
[21:03] <bcurtiswx> OK, the ubuntu-desktop PPA ?
[21:03] <bcurtiswx> ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa ?
[21:03] <seb128> the gnome3 build there yes
[21:03] <seb128> no, there is a specific for the gnome3 builds
[21:03] <seb128> check on the launchpad page for the team
[21:04] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds
[21:04] <seb128> bcurtiswx, ^
[21:05] <bcurtiswx> seb128, thanks
[21:05] <seb128> yw
[21:06] <bcurtiswx> hmm, apt is trying to remove evolution
[21:06]  * Nafallo taps apt on the head. good program!
[21:06] <Nafallo> ;-)
[21:07] <seb128> bcurtiswx, didn't check why but wait a bit for the new version to be built
[21:07] <seb128> you probably catch a time where some components are built but not evo itself yet
[21:08] <bcurtiswx> yeah I am, it usually calms down after an hour or two of catch up
[21:11] <bigon> seb128: I will open a wishlist bug on debian bts to add a dh_gsettings into debhelper, ok for you?
[21:12] <seb128> seems fine yes
[21:12] <seb128> thank you
[21:18] <pitti> good night everyone
[21:18] <kenvandine> good night pitti
[21:18] <seb128> 'night pitti
[21:22] <kenvandine> tedg, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/dbusmenu/natty-gtk3-fixes/+merge/41658
[21:24] <bcurtiswx> i'm assuming all empathy patches because they were written in gtk2 will need extensive work to make them gtk3 ?
[21:25] <bcurtiswx> or is there some kind of tool to use ?
[21:25] <seb128> they should not
[21:25] <seb128> gtk2 and gtk3 are mostly the same
[21:25] <seb128> if you build on gtk2 without deprecated api use you build with gtk3
[21:26] <seb128> you just need to change the configure to do gtk2->gtk3 or so
[21:26] <bcurtiswx> configure.ac ?
[21:27] <TheMuso> kenvandine: Congrats!
[21:27] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: g-s-d is in lucid-proposed. will be build soon. go ahead ;)
[21:28] <seb128> bcurtiswx, yes
[21:28] <seb128> bcurtiswx, it's slightly harder than that but most of the code should be identic
[21:28] <kenvandine> TheMuso, thx
[21:28] <bcurtiswx> so best case scenario patches are just off by a lot and should be OK
[21:29] <bcurtiswx> i'll cross my fingers
[21:43] <Amaranth> Technically what seb128 said is true, so far, but deprecating a ton of stuff in the last 2.x GTK+ release is cheating a bit
[22:05] <bcurtiswx> hmm, i try to use a 2nd terminal window and i get the error *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
[22:05] <bcurtiswx> file doesn't exist
[22:06] <bcurtiswx> maybe a restart.. would help?
[22:15] <bcurtiswx> yeah odd, now i see it upon terminal load.. *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
[22:16] <bcurtiswx> and i can't hit enter to submit any commands
[22:16] <bcurtiswx> lol
[22:18] <bcurtiswx> fixed, just touch that file and no more errors and/or problems
[23:45] <kieppie> hi guys. does anyone know of an HTML5-based window manager?