[00:00] <ubuntujenkins> I am still reading about maintainer scripts (following links etc) . On another topic I would like to get a package into universe is there some form of guide/details on what requrements it needs to meet?
[00:00] <persia> No.
[00:01] <persia> Basic guidelines are: lintian-clean, nicely packaged, of interest to some Ubuntu developer.
[00:01] <persia> Depending on the relative cycles, it's often easier to get into Debian, and it's almost always easier to continue to maintain it in Debian.
[00:02] <ubuntujenkins> ok its not much use to debian as it would be for the ubuntu-manual project but what does "interest to some Ubuntu developer." mean? The program is only really usefull to new users would it get in? It would basically retrive the manual in their langauage
[00:03] <ubuntujenkins> also where should i send it?
[00:22] <persia> ubuntujenkins: What is this program, and waht does it do?
[00:27] <ubuntujenkins> persia: It basically provides a way for the user to get the latest version of the manual (pdf) in their language and view it, keeping it up to date.
[00:29] <ubuntujenkins> I say "view" but htey will just see it in their pdf reader
[00:31] <persia> This really doesn't sound like more than a .desktop file.
[00:32] <persia> Is there another package in which it could be sensibly included?
[00:33]  * persia is imagining a .desktop file and a script that checks a file location, and if absent, downloads something to make it present, and then opens a PDF viewer
[00:37] <ubuntujenkins> persia: It does have a gui as the manual might not be avalible in their language, so we ask them to choose one and suggest the could help translate. (Thats the idea). It is a glorified .desktop file . I
[00:38] <ubuntujenkins> I am not aware of a package we could add it to off the top of my head
[00:38] <persia> I'm not sure it's enough to have meaningful value as it's own package if it's a glorified .desktop file.
[00:39] <persia> You could upload it to REVU, but I believe the backlog is larger than will be processed during the maverick cycle, which makes it awkward.
[00:39] <persia> And I agree there's no point trying to get it in Debian: it doesn't belong there.
[00:40] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks i will have a go at making it thanks for your help persia
[00:41] <ubuntujenkins> I think our project lead will be very pleased if we get it in
[00:41] <micahg> persia: so since REVU queue is backlogged, if I want a new package in Ubuntu for Maverick, I should push it through Debian?
[00:42] <persia> That's usually best practice anyway, unless it's a package that's interesting to have Ubuntu-local, or needs to be (e.g. for trademark reasons).
[00:45] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: you should read something about what debhelper is or how it works in general and then read the man page of dh_installtex
[00:45] <ubuntujenkins> carstenh: thanks I like your script its very helpful. I think i will look in the morning its gettting late now
[00:46] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: dh_installtex is not used by default because it is not standard debhelper module (it's in another packge) and it should take care of the changes you need to make to the maintainer script
[00:47] <ubuntujenkins> ok, got it I did not think i would be doing all this 4 months ago all so much fun :)
[00:50] <carstenh> you're welcome :) http://stateful.de/~carsten/tmp/100507UsG9s93sBD8/dir2deb includes a fix for a typo, fixes displaying the error message if a required variable is not set and adds the possibility to overwrite the short and loond description using environment variables. you can check the differences using diff -u oldfile newfile
[00:52] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: the only change that is visible in a generated package is the typo in debian/copyright (unless you substituted it with something useful). so there is not need to rerun it for an existing package
[00:52] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh
[00:53] <carstenh> s/loo../long/
[03:44] <nhandler> ScottK: I can't see any reason not to get it applied in Debian. The pkg-perl team (the real maintainer) are very responsive to applying patches that we need in Ubuntu
[03:44] <ScottK> nhandler: Thanks.  Would you please push it up to their svn?
[03:45] <ScottK> I'll be glad to if your rather merge boost1.42.
[03:45] <nhandler> ScottK: I can take care of it, but it will need to wait until at least the weekend.
[03:46] <ScottK> nhandler: That's fine.  It's been unmerged for almost two years, another two days won't hurt.
[03:46] <nhandler> :)
[06:55] <bilalakhtar> people, what is the process for a contrib to update a package in universe
[06:56] <bilalakhtar> hello?
[06:57] <micahg> bilalakhtar: version update or patch?
[06:57] <bilalakhtar> micahg: version update
[07:00] <\sh> moins
[07:01] <bilalakhtar> micahg: yes?
[07:01]  * micahg is looking, it's late for me :)
[07:01]  * bilalakhtar understands why micahg is busy
[07:01] <\sh> micahg, it's never too late...;)
[07:02] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: not only that it can be alot of things because the packaging may need updating too
[07:02] <\sh> micahg, btw...are you attending the upcoming UDS?
[07:02] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: and it may also be actively maintained in debian, and would be better to be updated there in some cases
[07:02] <imbrandon> s/some/most
[07:02] <micahg> imbrandon: maybe you can take over this Q
[07:02] <micahg> \sh: yes :)
[07:02] <imbrandon> micahg: :)
[07:02] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah, it requires a test build, test run, and, dch!
[07:03] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: yes, but quite a bit before that
[07:03] <\sh> micahg,nice...so we can meet in person :)
[07:03] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: INCASE it doesn't work
[07:03] <micahg> \sh: indeed, that will be nice
[07:03] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: otherwise, its simple to package, and upload
[07:03] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: first you need to dertimine if it should actualy be updated in Ubuntu, or should it be updated in debian and synced
[07:04] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes that is also there, but my question is, what is the process for a non-motu to do that?
[07:04] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: THEN you download the new tar, and update the conrtol/rules/*.install as needed
[07:04] <micahg> bilalakhtar: here's the link I was looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/#MOTU%20Processes
[07:04] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: the same as a MOTU the only diffrence is you need to get a sponsor to upload it once completed
[07:04] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, but, should I upload the package to revu or what?
[07:05] <micahg> \sh: night
[07:05] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: depends on what your sponsor wishes, but normaly no
[07:05] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: most of the time you put a diff on an LP bug or Debian BTS attachment
[07:05] <\sh>  micahg have a good one :) /me just starts to work :(
[07:05]  * micahg needs to be up in 6 hrs :(
[07:06] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: thanks. using pbuilder to do some stuff right now :)
[07:06] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: but one cannot update a universe package in a stable release like karmic or lucid, right? but we can do it for maverick?
[07:07] <imbrandon> right , well you can but it must follow SRU policys
[07:08] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: if its just a small update, like from 3.1.2 to 3.1.5
[07:08] <bilalakhtar> then what?
[07:08] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: again though if your updating to a new version please make sure you shouldent be doing it in debian first
[07:08] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: dosent matter how small or big , still folows same steps
[07:08] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: and thats 3 revisions so its a larger update :) not a small one
[07:10] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: fine, now I am getting training on how to pakage well :)
[07:10] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: :) its a long processes with alot of variables
[07:11] <imbrandon> thats why its hard to give a solid awnser, almost every package needs individual attention
[07:11] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, and you people, as motus, may be getting a lot of needs-packaging bugs and all the stuff!
[07:12] <imbrandon> sure, but most needs-packaging should be filed as ITP's in debian
[07:12] <imbrandon> only the rare case does it nned to be in ubuntu first
[07:13] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, its  *better* to upload to debian and then sync
[07:15] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: not only better but damn near a requirement depending on your sponsor
[07:15] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah
[07:17] <bilalakhtar> This is a debian question: Where can I find info on how to get packages into debian on wiki.debian.org?
[07:18] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp
[07:19] <imbrandon> and mentors.debian.net
[07:19] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: thanks
[07:21] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: np
[07:22] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: its alot to take in, if you have more specific questions be sure to ask :)
[07:22] <imbrandon> ( i'm sure you will )
[07:22] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: these are the reasons why windoze stinks. no community support. no way to add packages to the windows repo (there isn't one) !
[07:36] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: so I should target  debian squeeze and ubuntu maverick?
[07:36] <persia> Debian unstable.  uploading towards squeeze is almost never right.
[07:37] <bilalakhtar> persia: isn't squeeze the debian unstable right now?
[07:37] <bilalakhtar> sorry I am new to debian packaging, though I know about ubuntu packaging
[07:37] <persia> No.
[07:38] <bilalakhtar> what is unstable?
[07:38] <imbrandon> sid
[07:38] <bilalakhtar> what is squeeze then?
[07:38] <imbrandon> its called "unstable" though, they dont use the names in the changelog as ubuntu does
[07:38] <persia> Debian has a permanent "unstable" repository.  Packages that are in that repository and unbuggy for a configured amount of time are copied into the "testing" repository, which happens to currently be "squeeze".
[07:38] <imbrandon> sqeeze is testing
[07:39] <bilalakhtar> oh, I got confused when I came to debian. feeling at home with ubuntu
[07:39] <imbrandon> moins persia
[07:39] <persia> hey imbrandon
[07:39] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: they are very similar and very diffrent at the same time ;)
[07:39]  * bilalakhtar creates a chroot for maverick
[07:39] <persia> bilalakhtar: If Debian confuses you, stick to bugfixing in Ubuntu for a while, rather than packaging/updating new stuff.
[07:40] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: yea i second what persia just stated
[07:40] <persia> After you've become familiar with the tools, etc. Debian may make a lot more sense.
[07:40]  * persia doesn't think new packaging or updating is a good place to start *at all*: it's like jumping in the deep end of the pool when one is learning to swim
[07:40] <bilalakhtar> persia, imbrandon: thanks for your lecture :)
[07:41] <imbrandon> heh yea, or an ocean
[07:41] <imbrandon> if your comming form windows
[07:41]  * bilalakhtar has been fixing bugs for a while now
[07:41] <maco> i tend to think that reviewing patches and turning them into candidate uploads is a good place to start
[07:41] <imbrandon> maco: agreed
[07:41] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: no, I switched to ubuntu when gutsy came
[07:42] <bilalakhtar> have used hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic and now lucid
[07:42] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: :)
[07:42] <bilalakhtar> not to forget the GUTSY!
[07:42] <imbrandon> great
[07:42] <bilalakhtar> I took up app development in ubuntu a year ago
[07:42] <persia> bilalakhtar: We don't mean to imply you're not active: we just haven't seen you around that much yet, and like to suggest easy stuff at first :)
[07:43] <persia> (at least not around in *this* channel: I've certainly seen you lots of other places)
[07:43] <bilalakhtar> persia: maybe in #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:43] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: definately but it is ALOT to take in, i started somewhere arround breezy's release and still have alot to learn ;)
[07:44] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: wow, you have been here since the BREEZY BADGER?
[07:44] <imbrandon> i ahve be developing since then, i was using before that, yes
[07:45] <imbrandon> as has persia and ajm*itch and Scot*tK and TONS of other ubuntu-dev's ;) some of us are quite old-ish
[07:45] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: you develop in which languages?
[07:45] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: mono,php and c++ mostly , although the last year or so i've been picking up some python
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: I develop in php, c++, gave up python just a month ago
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> I didn't get any major libraries to have a python bin ding
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> *binding
[07:46] <imbrandon> huh?
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> like, you can see a media player I am currently developing, https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player
[07:47] <imbrandon> python has a binding for almost everything ;)
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: does python have a libvlc binding? gstreamer binding?
[07:47] <imbrandon> yes and yes
[07:47] <imbrandon> and its trivial to wrap other things like mplayer
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> but python can never match the vast library support of c
[07:49] <imbrandon> infact i just wrote a proof of concept python qt app that used gstreamer to play some rtsp streamd mkv videos 2 days ago, in like ~100 loc
[07:49] <imbrandon> :)
[07:49] <imbrandon> even had pretty qt overlayed controls on the video surface :P
[07:50] <bilalakhtar> oh, just found python bindings for libvlc and gst :)
[07:50] <imbrandon> hehe yea , youb be suprised at the vastness of python binding and libs
[07:51] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: ok, find a way to create a kernel module in python :)
[07:52] <imbrandon> hahaha right tool for the job, when you only know one language everything looks like a nail
[07:52] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: but c is the only language in which you could make a kernel module
[07:53] <imbrandon> c/c++ is about perfect for kmods, cuz its not too low level like asm to where its proc specific, but still can be compiled standalone
[07:53] <imbrandon> static*
[07:54] <bilalakhtar> praise gcc, the gnu compiler collection! the app without which gnu/linux wouldn't be like what its now !
[07:55] <imbrandon> and rapid app dev is done well in python or ruby or gambas , everything has its place ( then you can always optimize parts that need c++ or asm later ) :P
[07:55] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: agreed. php would be my language of choice of it had better support for cli and many people had it installed by default
[07:55] <bilalakhtar> php-gtk should become official
[07:56] <persia> Please, no.
[07:56] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: heh if you only knew hahahahah i love php, but then again i feel the right tool for the job is applicable there too, but dont get me wrong where most people here would write a bash or python script i write php-cli apps :) i have a few dozen on my hdd i've written for various things over the years
[07:57] <imbrandon> but most ( /me looks at persia ) would kill me for it ;)
[07:57] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah, I also prefer php and love it, for many reasons
[07:58]  * bilalakhtar has his maverick shroot ready
[07:58] <bilalakhtar> *chroot
[07:58] <imbrandon> 99% of the time php is my "fallback" if i need something done *NOW* i do it in php, then i find the best tool for it after
[07:58] <persia> I've just never seen a "best coding guidelines" doc for PHP.
[07:58] <persia> And most of the PHP stuff I've seen can be broken with a bit of effort.
[07:58] <bilalakhtar> one more thing where php is the best is its manual
[07:59] <imbrandon> persia: there really isnt one, there are alot of best practices but its like perl, its chnaged so much over the years
[07:59] <persia> But I wouldn't kiil anyone: I tend to grab make when I want something done quick-like, and I know most folks don't prefer it.
[07:59] <bilalakhtar> the *best* and *most documented* manual. every function has a page
[07:59] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: i have to agree, the php docs are BY FAR the best i have ever had to use
[08:00] <imbrandon> that and its hard to find a webserver that dosent support PHP and thats where i make my $$ ( i re-brand websites for people/companys )
[08:01] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:03] <imbrandon> but i also use it for many things most would cringe at, like i have a 34k+ file mp3 collection that i backup,index, and manipulate nightly on cron via php, and then serve up a frontend to access it while i'm away form $HOME
[08:04] <imbrandon> i wasent happy with any of the available solutions at the time ( arround 2001 ) so i made my own, it has grown form a simple ~30 line script to a fill blown suiet of php scripts even with their own conffiles and debian package
[08:04] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:06] <imbrandon> i should really re-write it in c# or c++ someday, but i never seem to have the tuits and i put a ton of hours into the php already
[08:06] <imbrandon> :)
[08:07] <imbrandon> what would be really nice is if rhythmbox started using something like couchdb , then i could replicate the db from rhythmbox nightly and use that as a backend for my frontend
[08:08] <imbrandon> but that dident exist ~8.5 years ago
[08:08] <imbrandon> and i would be tied to one gui
[08:08] <\sh> imbrandon, shouldn't be a rpoblem to integrate couchdb into rhythmbox
[08:09] <RAOF> Does it really make sense to replicate the metadata but not the data?
[08:10] <\sh> RAOF, just attach your mp3s to the couchdb database documents...there you go ;) but I wonder if it's really a good idea to replicate 10G of mp3s ;)
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <\sh> hey dholbach
[08:10] <RAOF> Or ~40GiB of assorted mp3, wavpack, flac and aac :)
[08:10] <dholbach> hi \sh
[08:10] <imbrandon> RAOF: the data is replicated via rsync nightly anyhow, i want the metadata for my front end
[08:11] <imbrandon> my php script spends about ~60 minnutes a night reindexing the meta data
[08:11] <imbrandon> to put into a mysqldb
[08:11] <imbrandon> for my frontend
[08:11] <\sh> But what would be nice to tell rhythmbox to sync some of the music files via desktopcouch to ubuntu one (or an eventually opensourced compatible service) and have your data also synced to other computers you have hands on ;)
[08:12] <\sh> imbrandon, I have ampache running at home :)
[08:12] <imbrandon> \sh: yea i've looked at Ampache, its close to what i have, but i did my first and long before that one
[08:13] <RAOF> It would be nice to have Banshee play from my U1 account on all my computers…
[08:13] <imbrandon> one sec lemme see if i can add a .htaccess entry for ya for a moment to look at it
[08:15] <imbrandon> \sh RAOF : http://bobsmusic.sytes.net/   user:temp pass:brandon
[08:15] <imbrandon> thats the "front end"
[08:16] <imbrandon> ( be kind to it, its on my cable modem )
[08:17] <\sh> garry glitter ... I see that we have a very similar taste of music ;)
[08:18] <imbrandon> \sh: lol, i have a littel bit of everything
[08:18] <imbrandon> little*
[08:18] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: how do I force pbuilder to use maverick archive?
[08:18] <\sh> ok...it looks like ampache without the shinyness ;)
[08:19] <bilalakhtar> I added that line in .pbuilderrc, in my package dch, what else?
[08:19] <imbrandon> \sh: yup exactly, but arround way way before ampache ;)
[08:19] <\sh> imbrandon, :)
[08:19] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: depends on your pbulder setup, first you must have a maverik base.tgz
[08:20] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: something like "DIST=maverick sudo pbuilder create" should work
[08:20] <bilalakhtar> imbrandon: I added the line in .pbuilderrc, then ran build, do I need to do something else also?
[08:21] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: something like "DIST=maverick sudo pbuilder build some.dsc" should work
[08:21] <bilalakhtar> its DISTRIBUTION=maverick
[08:21] <bilalakhtar> ok, then, I will run update --override-config
[08:21] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: like i said depends on your pbuilder setup ;) mine i have the DIST varible
[08:22] <bilalakhtar> create seemed to recognise the distribution variable, but not build
[08:22] <bilalakhtar> when I ran create, it said "Distribution is maverick"
[08:23] <bilalakhtar> does that mean I have a maverick base?
[08:23] <imbrandon> should , but as i said it all depends on the .pbuilderrc and the rest of the setup, pbuilder is very very custom per person/setup
[08:24] <imbrandon> basicly just go through the same steps you did to make a lucid one
[08:29] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: http://paste.debian.net/72368/
[08:29] <imbrandon> bilalakhtar: thats my pbuilderrc for refrence
[08:29] <bilalakhtar> got it. I am updating base.tgz
[08:30] <imbrandon> good
[08:33] <imbrandon> \sh: imbrandon@enterprise:/storage/websites/bobsmusic.sytes.net$ du -sh /storage/users/imbrandon/Music
[08:33] <imbrandon> 83G     /storage/users/imbrandon/Music
[08:33] <imbrandon> a little more than 10g :)
[08:35] <\sh> imbrandon, hehe
[08:39]  * imbrandon turns off access since this channel is logged , dont want everyone eating up my bandwidth
[09:04] <bilalakhtar> lifeless: Why is your mugshot an upside-down person?
[09:05] <ajmitch> because he's upside down?
[09:08] <lifeless> kiko's sense of humour
[09:08] <lifeless> then I decided I liked it
[09:08] <imbrandon> heh or hes downunder
[09:12] <bilalakhtar> lifeless: Why is your mugshot an upside-down person?
[09:12] <ajmitch> and again...
[09:12] <bilalakhtar> ajmitch: I went offline
[09:12] <bilalakhtar> so missed the answer *probably*
[09:12] <bilalakhtar> blame my connection
[09:16] <imbrandon> 03:05:29 < ajmitch> because he's upside down?
[09:16] <imbrandon> 03:08:25 < lifeless> kiko's sense of humour
[09:16] <imbrandon> 03:08:29 < lifeless> then I decided I liked it
[09:16] <imbrandon> 03:08:30 < imbrandon> heh or hes downunder
[09:29] <imbrandon> ajmitch: i updated the packages on p.u.c to include the rythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store now too, and filed an ITP for it today
[09:37] <ajmitch> though it'll only work when rb uses python 2.6
[09:38] <imbrandon> nah i made it work with 2.5
[09:39] <imbrandon> it works on my sqweeze laptop now
[09:39] <imbrandon> the packages a a mess of mix between 2.5 and 2.6 though lol
[09:40] <imbrandon> everything is forced 2.6 except for the musicstore which is forced 2.5 to work with rb
[09:40] <imbrandon> but it "works" just not clean as i'd like
[09:42] <imbrandon> i'd really like to hear from jak soon, so i can poke him to atlease update aptdaemon and software-center, and possible give us the ITP's
[11:01] <bilalakhtar> People, I have uploaded a new version of the package "clamtk" to revu on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clamtk . I have run a test build using pbuilder, checked for errors using lintian, filed bug #576902
[11:17] <bilalakhtar> People, I have uploaded a new version of the package "clamtk" to revu on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clamtk . I have run a test build using pbuilder, checked for errors using lintian, filed bug #576902
[11:19] <bilalakhtar> Why are people joining and leaving this channel so much?
[11:20] <Laney> That's what happens
[11:20] <Laney> you can ignore them if you like (I have)
[11:21] <bilalakhtar> Laney: Are you a motu?
[11:32]  * Laney goes suspiciously quiet
[11:33]  * bilalakhtar searches for a sponser for an updated package
[11:34] <Laney> you should just use the sponsor queue
[11:34] <bilalakhtar> Laney: what sponsor queue?
[11:34] <bilalakhtar> where is it?
[11:34] <bilalakhtar> I have subscribed the bug to the ubuntu-sponsors team
[11:36] <Laney> that's it
[11:37] <bilalakhtar> james_w: According to the schedule on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews , you are reasy to sponsor packages now
[11:38] <james_w> bug number?
[11:38] <bilalakhtar> 1 sec
[11:38] <bilalakhtar> bug #576902
[11:39] <bilalakhtar> james_w: oh didn't see the recent comment. sorry. no need  to review
[14:01]  * stefanlsd makes my people i need to buy a beer list for uds
[14:25] <azop> stefanlsd: It might be easier to grab a keg
[14:26] <stefanlsd> azop: hehe. yeah. def :)
[14:27] <azop> stefanlsd: with that in mind, what can I do to help you so I get added to the list?
[14:37] <stefanlsd> azop: haha. i'll buy u one anyways. just find me
[14:52] <mirsal> Hello :)
[14:52] <mirsal> Could you have a look to the last two revisions of php5-mcrypt ? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/php-mcrypt/lucid
[14:53] <mirsal> It looks like patches were applied in the wrong order
[14:53] <mirsal> (on lucid)
[14:54] <mirsal> zul, ping
[14:54] <zul> pong
[14:54] <mirsal> ah, great
[14:54] <mirsal> zul, cf. my last messages =)
[14:55] <zul> mirsal: k...ill hhave a look when i get a chance
[14:55] <mirsal> zul, Thanks
[14:56] <mirsal> (it should be trivial)
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> Could an ubuntu-sru person take a peek at bug 576660 please?
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> The reporter happens to be upstream of an affected app, so I'd like for this to not get lost in the morass
[15:03] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: jdong is probably your best bet.  He's got a ton of projects to get done before the semester ends so he's probably procrastinating.
[15:03] <nigelbabu> ScottK: procrastinattion 101 :D
[15:11] <\sh> ./mirror_lucid --to-laptop && echo "done"
[15:24] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Can you attach a debdiff or link to bzr branch revision?
[15:25] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: debdiff attatched
[15:27] <cody-somerville> why do you guys prepend kubuntu_ to your patch filenames?
[15:27] <ScottK> To distinguish from patches that come from Debian.
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> Conincidentally, there's a spec to make things a bit more sane in that regard: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/MaverickPatchPolicy
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> The naming scheme, and patch policy in general for kubuntu
[15:30]  * jpds wishes we had ubuntu_* patches.
[15:33] <\sh> jpds, wasn't that somewhere documented, that we should use "ubuntu_" prefix for ubuntu patches?
[15:33] <cody-somerville> I thought we were going to use patch tags or something for that.
[15:35] <\sh> cody-somerville, inside the patch file...but it would be nice to see before what is "upstream" patch (means: debian patches) and what is ubuntu only
[15:38] <cody-somerville> \sh, Can you give a use case?
[15:39] <cody-somerville> if I'm working with the files locally, executing grep is almost as easy as executing ls.
[15:39] <dholbach> Last day of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starts in 21m in #ubuntu-classroom with "Introduction to Ubuntu Development"
[15:40] <cody-somerville> plus, patch tags or just good ol' revision control would give greater flexibility to see who did what since a patch could easily start upstream but then by modified by Debian and then be modified by Ubuntu. are you going to have upstream_debian_ubuntu_01_blah.patch?
[15:43] <cody-somerville> wow. I actually really don't like that spec. Adds way too much confusion/bureaucracy, especially for new contributors or contributors not familiar with Kubuntu policies, for very little benefit when a good comment in the patch could be so much more helpful and accurate.
[15:47] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Your SRU request needs a bit of improvement. Please describe the change that is actually being made (ie. the commit message is pretty descriptive). Also although the patch being done upstream and upstream history can be a factor in your regression analysis, the meat and potatoes should be based on the actual change your proposing.
[15:56] <cody-somerville> *you're
[16:07] <\sh> cody-somerville, I can't right now without searching....but in general...even when someone only changes some sources which are "ubuntu specific" (e.g. launchpad integration in the help menu)...
[16:08] <\sh> anyways...I think we have enough time next week to discuss some of those little things ;)
[16:08]  * \sh still needs to setup something for next week
[16:15] <ari-tczew> dholbach: what are tasks of day-to-day maintenance ?
[16:16] <dholbach> ari-tczew: I'm giving a open week session right now
[16:16] <dholbach> ari-tczew: can you mail me?
[16:16] <ari-tczew> dholbach: sure
[16:17] <dholbach> thanks
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: fixed
[16:43] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, have you tested the patch yourself?
[16:43] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: yes, it fixes the crash with the given testcase
[16:45] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, I'm not really sure you provided the information I requested. The commit message says "Instead of checking for the connection state in the current thread, actually try to connect.". I'm curious as to the affect that will have and if it could potential cause other crashes or maybe memory/descriptor leaks.
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> All I know, is that upstream made a point to release a bugfix release for this patch, and upstream is going to get pissy with us if we don't include it.
[16:50] <psusi> temugen: say, maybe your python skills could help me some more... so far I have been doing this by hand with grep and sed... could you whip something up that can take the ureadahead --dump output and translate it into a file that lists their inode numbers, one per line?
[17:35] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Although I appreciate the delicacy of maintaining healthy relationships with upstream developers,
[17:37] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, the objective here is to protect our users from regressions while providing a critical fix to a stable release.
[17:38] <ScottK> cody-somerville: If there's s clear test case and the diff is reasonable, I think that's what the procedure requires.
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> the rest will be taken care of during the verification-needed bit
[17:44] <cody-somerville> I don't like the idea of blindly applying patches from upstream SVN which is why I want to see some level of understanding of the change being made.
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> This is not blindly taking a patch from upstream svn. It is isolating the major fix of a point release of the software, as is SRU protocol, in order to solve a regression that makes an application very unstable.
[17:47] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Thats why if you link to say a changelog then it'll help me get that.
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> http://soprano.sourceforge.net/node/46
[17:47] <cody-somerville> as I suspected, the fix is "quick and ugly".
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> obviously clean enough to warrant a point release from upstream,though
[17:51] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, So, I'm curious if when soprano tries to connect, does it have to explicatively close the connection? What are the ramifications of it trying to connect every time isConnected() is called?
[17:55] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, I can understand why you want to provide this fix to users. However, from my perspective I think a little extra care here is warranted since this is a "quick and ugly fix" (sic).
[17:56] <l3on> Hi all... I've some doubts about quilt use: I created patch as described in this tutorial:
[17:56] <l3on> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-modify.en.html
[17:57] <l3on> now, have I to add some lines in debian/rules to make sure build operation calls quilt patches?
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: if there is already a connection, connectInCurrentThread() will return the existing socket
[18:00] <JontheEchidna> so it will not result in creating connections that will never be closed
[18:00] <temugen> psusi: yea, no problem
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> From what I've seen in the comments, the whole socket architecture needs redone, which is likely why the fix was called "quick and ugly"
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> a stopgap measure for a class that really just needs redone
[18:16] <jdong> JontheEchidna: what's the testing scope of the upstream fix? e.g. how many distros/users have adopted that solution?
[18:17] <jdong> JontheEchidna: I totally sympathize with the motivation to adopt upstream's workaround, but I've been-there-done-that with KTorrent's "trade one race condition for another" approach, and I'd hate to go through a SRU verification cycle just to get a new batch of slightly different versions of this bug
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> jdong: Fedora has pushed the entire 2.4.3 (this fix plus what looks like some apidocs updates) to Fedora 11, one of their stable releases
[18:19] <jdong> JontheEchidna: fedora's also pushed iptables packages with the binary missing, alsa packages that can't even install due to nonexistent dependencies.... more importantly than them pushing, what have their users reported?
[18:20] <jdong> (oh yeah, they also had a bind9 update that shipped a conf file with mismatched braces.)
[18:23] <ScottK> Right.  They would be the ones who did so great with KDE that Linus switched to Gnome.
[18:24] <JontheEchidna> they also switched over to 4.0 the first release they could
[18:24] <psusi> temugen: a few caveats about it though... 1) symbolic links need followed and their destination looked up instead, and 2) could you separate the directories from normal files?  it seems that normal files don't share the buffer cache of the block device, so I need to read directories through the block device, and normal files the normal way, so I'd like to keep them separate on the disk
[18:24] <ScottK> Same thong
[18:24] <ScottK> thong/thing
[18:25] <temugen> psusi: do you want it to print JUST the inodes?
[18:26] <psusi> temugen: basically... defrag wants a list of inodes to prioritize... one inode number per line... it also takes a priority number though, so basically I want a line that says "=-2" then all of the directory inode numbers, then a line that says "=-1" followed by all of the normal file inode numbers
[18:26] <temugen> ok
[18:27] <psusi> that should pack the directories first, where they can be read quickly through the block device, then the files, which can be read normally... all without seeking
[18:27] <jdong> JontheEchidna: I mean don't get me wrong, Fedora's awesome, but good judgement in pushing out updates is not their claim to fame. The information I'd like to hear from Fedora is "1000 users installed and there's concensus it fixed the bug" type feedback from the users
[18:28] <BlackZ> I'm unable to upload a package on revu. The last upload was for lucid the 15th feb 2010 but it was signed with another pgp key, however the currently key I'm using to sign the package is imported in launchpad. Any idea?
[18:29] <psusi> temugen: eventually I'd like to have the package build an alternate initrd for you to choose from your grub menu that will parse the pack file, delete it, then defrag using that information to optimize, and reboot
[18:33] <\sh> ok...guys...I'll see you at UDS...(arrival: sunday around 1700 GMT+2)
[18:33] <temugen> psusi: hmmm.... does ureadahead list any directories in the dump?
[18:34] <temugen> psusi: I stat'd every realpath and check S_ISDIR, but came up with no directories
[18:35] <jdong> JontheEchidna: anyway, bottom line is, cody-somerville and I are not trying to be bureaucratic jerks making your life harder... We'd just like to make sure you're filing this SRU because you believe it'll fix the bug, not because upstream committed a hackish fix and we're being puppets and following along for the fun of it
[18:35] <jdong> if you have that confidence in the fix, I'm willing to give you the SRU approval
[18:37] <psusi> temugen: it does in my version ;)
[18:38] <psusi> temugen: ohh, and probably going to need --root parameter so you can run it on a fs mounted in /mnt for example
[18:39] <jdong> or a --pack parameter in general.
[18:40] <psusi> think --root... because you will need to prepend that to each path when stating it
[18:40] <temugen> I just pushed a script with fragraph (that relies on fragraph)
[18:40] <temugen> but what about --root/--pack now? :)
[18:41] <temugen> ok, so you want a prefix added?
[18:41] <psusi> temugen: if I mount the fs in /mnt from say, a livecd, there needs to be a way for that to work... normally ureadahead --dump looks for the dump on the current root, which won't work from a livecd
[18:41] <temugen> ok
[18:42] <JontheEchidna> jdong: it does fix the bug. I've confirmed that
[18:42] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: If an SRU is too hard, I'll approve a backport.
[18:42] <psusi> so need to point ureadahead to the pack file in /mnt, and then the file names it spits out will be relative to /mnt, so need to add /mnt when stat()ing
[18:42] <temugen> do you have /sys /dev to work with too? (since this script just uses Ureadahead from fragraph, it needlessly reads in the block device too)
[18:42] <psusi> though actually I think ureadahead does not support --dumping a pack file from another system either...
[18:42] <psusi> hrm...
[18:43] <jdong> JontheEchidna: ok, I'll give an ACK for the bug to continue testing then :) sorry for the hassle
[18:43] <temugen> psusi: I can allow you to pass in a dump of a packfile and you specify a prefix?
[18:43] <psusi> temugen: do you run ureadahead --dump, or do you parse the pack file yourself?
[18:43] <temugen> psusi: I can do either
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> Thank you. I will be perfectly fine to let it go if the verification process catches regressions in -proposed
[18:44] <psusi> how does it work now?
[18:44] <temugen> psusi: I do ureadahead --dump, but I can make it so you pass in a filename of --dump output
[18:45] <psusi> temugen: yea, then to work from another system either ureadahead needs fixed, or you have to run ureadahead in a chroot... hrm..
[18:45] <temugen> psusi: right now it does ureadahead --dump, needlessly reads /sys /dev stuff like it does for fragraph, and then goes through stat'ing realpaths and checking if they're directories or not
[18:45] <jdong> JontheEchidna: thanks. I've commented on your bug report.
[18:45] <psusi> what does it look in /sys and /dev for?
[18:46] <temugen> psusi: it finds the device from the dump and uses it to pass into blockdev to get sizes
[18:47] <psusi> ohh, to know how big to make the graph?
[18:47] <temugen> psusi: for various things, yes
[18:47] <psusi> hrm... actually, I guess nevermind on the --root parameter... will just need to run it after chrooting into the mounted fs
[18:47] <psusi> for now...
[18:48] <temugen> psusi: alright, just ping me if you want something modified
[18:49] <psusi> cool, thanks
[18:49] <psusi> I'll give it a try tonight... must.... break... 10 second barrier...
[18:50] <temugen> psusi: that would be awesome :)
[18:51] <temugen> psusi: and you did point out in needs to follow symbolic links before grabbing the inode, doesn't that mean some of the symlink names are too long to fit in the inode?
[18:51] <psusi> I had it down to 13 or 14 seconds last night
[18:51] <temugen> it needs*
[18:51] <psusi> temugen: dunno... don't care really... I just want to make sure the REAL file is packed in the proper place ;)
[18:52] <psusi> though actually I guess stat() will follow the symlink to the real file won't it?  it's lstat that doesn't
[18:52] <temugen> psusi: does ureadahead seek to read the symlink first to find the realpath, though?
[18:52] <temugen> psusi: and yea, you're right.
[18:52] <psusi> all I know is that when I was running ls -i at first, it gave me the inode number of the symlink instead of the file it points to, hehe...
[18:53] <psusi> it will if the link is too long to fit in the inode, but I don;t think a typical system has any of those
[18:54] <temugen> psusi: ok, that's fine, I wasn't sure. 13 seconds is awesome :)
[18:54] <psusi> I think I can get it down to 8 ;)
[18:54] <psusi> maybe 7
[18:55] <temugen> O_O
[18:55] <psusi> my ssd boots in 5 ;)
[19:01] <psusi> ohh, actually I just scanned for non fast symlinks with find / -mount -type l | xargs du and it did find a few
[19:02] <psusi> hrm.. quite a few actually...
[19:03] <temugen> psusi: possibly prioritize those inodes as well? :)
[19:03]  * psusi wonders wtf there are font files in /var/lib for on a server
[19:03] <psusi> temugen: no need if they aren't used by ureadhead ;)
[19:04] <temugen> psusi: no no, of course. just wondering if you want me to list any if they exist in the dump with the python script
[19:04] <psusi> I wouldn't worry about it for now...
[19:04] <temugen> ok
[19:06] <psusi> I seem to have a bunch of symlinks in /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType that point way over to /usr/share/fonts/some/retardedly/long/name... which is odd seeing as this is a server install
[19:06] <psusi> headless
[19:22] <psusi> LOTs of long symlinks in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages... hrm...
[19:22] <ScottK> Please don't break the Python symlinks.
[19:23] <psusi> hoho... not breaking any symlinks... was just checking to see if there are many that could benefit from being moved by the defragger
[19:23] <psusi> I'm surprised to find so many long ones
[19:24] <psusi> what are all these needed for?
[19:24] <ScottK> Just be glad we don't also have python2.5 anymore or there'd be a lot of similar symlinks for  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages
[19:24] <psusi> what are they all for and could they not use hard links instead?
[19:26] <nigelbabu> when we have a package with delta from debian, its not autosynced next cycle?
[19:26] <ScottK> It's part of the magic that allows us to support multiple Python versions at the same time when upstream totally doesn't support it.
[19:27] <psusi> ScottK: couldn't hard links be used instead?
[19:27] <ScottK> psusi: I don't know.
[19:27] <ScottK> nigelbabu: Correct.  The packages have to either be merged or if the diff is no longer needed a sync needs to be requested.
[19:28] <nigelbabu> ScottK: oh,ok.  Thanks :)
[19:43] <fabrice_sp> Will the sync process change this cycle? I mean, I've been subscribing archive admin to sync request. Is it still the way to go?
[19:59] <geser> yes, at least I didn't read an announcement that it changed
[20:02] <fabrice_sp> ok
[20:21] <ScottK> fabrice_sp: Why did you think it might change?
[20:25] <fabrice_sp> ScottK, because I remember a lot of emails on a sync script 1 or 2 months ago (after the luca's email, I think)
[20:26] <ScottK> Ah, right.  Such a script exists, but it's not the preferred method.
[20:26] <fabrice_sp> and I understood that the purpose was to allow developpersto do the sync by their own
[20:26] <fabrice_sp> ok: so no changes then
[20:26] <ScottK> Not yet


[01:20] <RAOF> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm:
[01:20] <RAOF> ```
[01:20] <RAOF> /usr/include/c++/12/bits/char_traits.h:431:56: error: ‘void* __builtin_memcpy(void*, const void*, long unsigned int)’ accessing<PHONE_NUMBER>854775810 or more bytes at offsets -4611686018427387902 and [-4611686018427387903,<PHONE_NUMBER>427387904] may overlap up to<PHONE_NUMBER>854775813 bytes at offset -3 [-Werror=restrict]
[01:20] <RAOF> ```
[01:20] <RAOF> I feel that accessing `9223372036854775810` or more bytes *might* be a mistake 🤷♀
[07:16] <RAOF> Saviq:  I've enabled ppc64el in ppa:mir-team/dev on the basis that we reasonably frequently see FTBFS on that platform and it would be nice to get a heads up before uploading to the archive.
[07:42] <Saviq> RAOF (he/they): ofc, we should have the same coverage there
[07:53] <RAOF> Damnit, how do you really turn off LTO now?
 "Damnit, how do you really turn..." <- It doesn't "just work"?
[08:05] <Saviq> WDYM?
[08:05] <Saviq> `-DMIR_LINK_TIME_OPTIMIZATION=OFF`
[08:06] <Saviq> Maybe something overrode it? Look for `COMMON_CONFIGURE_OPTIONS` in the log, as it prints what's passed to CMake?
[08:30] <RAOF> (Sorry, bleeding nose emergency)
[08:31] <RAOF> Ubuntu enables LTO by default now. `DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=optimize=-lto` is meant to turn that off, but didn't on this build.
[08:32] <RAOF> Damnit, miriway crashed and I lost the half-filed gcc bug.
[08:32] <RAOF> Oh, well. EOW it is!
[09:33] <Saviq> Right, and we do it if `DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt`; but I suppose we may need to set it if we encounter `MIR_LINK_TIME_OPTIMIZATION`? Or rework things in a way that one follows the other?
[09:34] <Saviq> I mean, this should also look for `optimize=-lto`, not just for `noopt`?
[09:34] <Saviq> https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/aa0a01e1b9d46cebf47650243dbf2245c5e9025f/debian/rules#L34-L38
 "I mean, this should also look..." <- https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/aa0a01e1b9d46cebf47650243dbf2245c5e9025f/debian/rules#L34-L38
[11:14] <alan_g[m]> I think RAOF says we set that, but it didn't work. But I don't know which build he's referring to
[11:15] <Saviq> I think this:
[11:15] <Saviq> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/2.9.0-0ubuntu1
[11:16] <Saviq> Unless something completely different
[11:21] <alan_g[m]> Hmm looking at the ppc64el build I see the strange error he quoted. But there's nothing disabling LTO
[11:21] <alan_g[m]> Or trying to
[11:22] <Saviq> Yup, that.
[11:22] <alan_g[m]> So, I think the idea is to check for ppc64el and disable LTO?
[11:24] <Saviq> That's what I was thinking, I'll try in a test PPA.
[11:25] <Saviq> alan_g if you turn CapsLock on, then Alt+Tab to another app, do you get small caps?
[11:25] <alan_g[m]> Was about to switch to Miriway to try that. Having a reproducer would be very helpful
[11:26] <alan_g[m]> I so seldom hit CapsLock...
[11:28] <alan_g[m]> \o/ Capslock only unlocks on the original app
[11:31] <alan_g[m]> Or... not quite consistent. But definitely enough of a reproducer
[11:35] <Saviq> Yup
[11:49] <Saviq> Ah. I think you can only unlock in the original app, but need to kick it twice.
[11:51] <RAOF> > <@alan_g:matrix.org> https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/aa0a01e1b9d46cebf47650243dbf2245c5e9025f/debian/rules#L34-L38
[11:51] <RAOF> > I think RAOF says we set that, but it didn't work. But I don't know which build he's referring to
[11:51] <RAOF> I'm referring to my local build, where I set `MIR_LINK_TIME_OPTIMIZATION=OFF`, but it still gets built with LTO.
[11:52] <RAOF> (in a cross-building `sbuild`0
[11:52] <RAOF> s/0/)/
[11:53] <RAOF> Yeah, please see if you can disable LTO in a PPA build.
[11:54] <RAOF> Ideally, I guess, we'd just not build any of `tests/` with LTO? There's no particularly good reason to, and if we didn't we could turn off fat LTO and speed the build up a little.
[11:55] <RAOF> All LTO of `tests/` seems to accomplish is to help gmock expose bugs in the LTO toolchain 🤪
[11:56] <RAOF> And now, good night!
[11:59] <Saviq> Well, that should be easy, just set `-fno-lto` in `tests/CMakeLists.txt`? Probably no need for `-fno-fat-lto-objects` then?
[11:59] <Saviq> Good night!
[12:03] <Saviq> I mean... https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/aa0a01e1b9d46cebf47650243dbf2245c5e9025f/tests/CMakeLists.txt#L116-L117
 "I so seldom hit CapsLock..." <- I have it mapped to Compose in GNOME, which results in me hitting it every now and then… and my caps go wild :)
[12:19] <Saviq> Which reminds me...
[12:21] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [issue #2630](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2630): Support mapping a Compose key... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/532fb44cc237dd2eb806cad4e81cb00aa78cf4c0)
[13:12] <Saviq> RAOF (he/they) this got LTO disabled, but the error is the same, if that's what you were fighting:
[13:12] <Saviq> https://launchpad.net/~saviq/+archive/ubuntu/mir-test/+build/24348505
[14:07] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths assigned AlanGriffiths to [issue #2592](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2592): CapsLock state gets stuck
[16:34] <Saviq> Good weekend all o/


[06:32] <dholbach> good morning
[07:21] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:30] <dholbach> dpm, yoyoyo :)
[08:30] <dpm> dholbach, just a sec, coming! :)
[08:32] <czajkowski> peeka boo
[08:33] <dholbach> hey czajkowski
[08:35] <czajkowski> hows things
[12:18] <jcastro> dpm, I'm getting an nginx error on your blog
[12:21] <dpm> jcastro, argh, looking into it, thanks for the heads up!
[12:21] <jcastro> I just happened to be googling the Reminders app
[12:22] <dpm> I should have probably checked that it was still up after updating packages yesterday :/
[12:27] <dpm> shit
[12:28] <dpm> how did a package update turn into a dist-upgrade?
[12:28] <dpm> so I upgraded my server to 14.04 without noticing?
[13:05] <jcastro> nice!
[14:35] <jcastro> mhall119, man they did a real nice job with the build and it's instructions
[14:35] <jcastro> this is pretty trivial to build
[14:44] <mhall119> jcastro: Unity8? Yeah they did
[15:28] <bkerensa> cjohnston: ping
[16:12] <dholbach> all right my friends - have a great rest of your day - see you tomorrow! :)
[23:42] <cprofitt> query jono_


[01:13] <dethredic> I'm running XUbuntu 14.04 with intel iris graphics. With the following package everything works fine: xfwm4=4.11.1-2ubuntu2. When I upgraded to 4.11.1-2ubuntu3.01~eugenesan~trusty1 I no longer see titlebars on maximized windows. Reverting fixes the problem.
[01:15] <Unit193> "4.11.1-2ubuntu3.01~eugenesan~trusty1" is from a PPA, not us.
[01:17] <dethredic> Unit193: Why am I getting that update then?
[01:19] <dethredic> nvm, I see I have his PPA
[01:19] <Unit193> Because you added https://launchpad.net/~eugenesan/+archive/ubuntu/ppa that ppa?  Seems he's never met  apackage he didn't like...
[01:24] <dethredic> I wonder what I installed from him
[01:24] <Unit193> Also, fwiw: - Allow to hide titlebar of maximized windows: 0003-added-titleless-maximization-feature.patch
[01:25] <Unit193> Well, you can remove it, then update, then apt list | grep installed,loc  and see what looks like it came from him.
[02:39] <ferr> Sup any suggestions to tile windows to corners?
[02:42] <baegle> I just upgraded to 14.04 (thinkpad x230). Resuming from suspend, I get the login window, but after logging in, the screen is completely black. I think the backlight is completely off. But my ttys work (after a second, presumably for the backlight to turn on). How can I toggle the backlight on my X session from a separate tty session?
[02:44] <Unit193> Hmmm, wasn't it  xset dpms force on  ?
[02:45] <kerriDoti> hi all.
[02:48] <kerriDoti> can anyone tell me the name of, or more to the point, what the shortcut is to hide/show the window. (((the fourth up arrow button next to the minimize, maximize, and close buttons?)))
[02:49] <baegle> Unit193: was that for me?
[02:51] <Unit193> kerriDoti: Shade.
[02:51] <Unit193> baegle: Yes, generally.
[02:52] <baegle> Unit193: I get the message - unable to open display ""
[02:55] <Unit193> Because DISPLAY isn't set.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1303736 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1357090
[02:55] <Unit193> You could just  sudo service lightdm restart  the whole thing is a mess, basically.
[02:56] <baegle> lightdm restart would kill my session though
[02:56] <baegle> right?
[02:57] <Unit193> Right.
[02:57] <baegle> right, so that's only a hair better than rebooting
[02:58] <baegle> could I xset and provide it with a display number?
[02:58] <Unit193> export DISPLAY=:0  because it's most likely :0
[02:59] <kerriDoti> Unit193: !Thank you! Now i need to figure out how to do a keyboard shortcut for it, instead of mouse scroll or clicking the arrow button.
[02:59] <baegle> on or off seem to have no effect, but no error. Unfortunately, I'm not in a state to test it unless "off" would do something
[03:00] <Unit193> kerriDoti: Settings Manager -> Window Manager -> Shade
[03:00] <Unit193> Err, Keyboard -> Shade
[03:00] <kerriDoti> cool, will take a look.
[03:05] <kerriDoti> Unit193: Thank you! Got it. Under windows manager. I made a shortcut. Awesomeness!
[03:05] <Unit193> Great.
[04:53] <akis> hi all. anyway to make 'software&updates' to be shown in panel's indicator plugin on 14.04?
[09:03] <xubuntu498> what driver shud i use for intel grapics media accelrator ? Shud i download the driver for ubuntu or fedora ? and how to install it ?
[09:04] <ObrienDave> hang on a sec
[09:05] <ObrienDave> look here ==> https://01.org/linuxgraphics/
[09:07] <xubuntu498> I am on the Intel site.. there is drivers..
[09:07] <ObrienDave> yes, there are
[09:07] <brainwash> the intel driver is already pre-installed and used by default, you only need to download it manually if you need the latest version of it
[09:09] <xubuntu498> The driver is included in xubuntu ?
[09:10] <brainwash> it is
[09:10] <xubuntu498> good
[09:10] <brainwash> the package is called xserver-xorg-video-intel
[09:10] <xubuntu498> But some vide run slow.. i am not sure what it can be..
[09:10] <xubuntu498> videos
[09:10] <ObrienDave> do you have xubuntu-restricted-extras installed?
[09:11] <xubuntu498> I dont think so.. i have never heard about it.. i only installed xubuntu and the updates.
[09:12] <ObrienDave> open a terminal, copy and paste, sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-extras
[09:12] <xubuntu498> can i do it for softwarecenter ?
[09:13] <ObrienDave> think so, i haven't used USC in quite a while
[09:13] <ObrienDave> you can try in synaptic
[09:14] <xubuntu498> shud i use it ?
[09:14] <ObrienDave> as you wish
[09:16] <xubuntu498> youtube works.. some few tv channles run slow.. i am not sure it is the driver or what.. the flashplayr works good i think.
[09:17] <ObrienDave> if streaming media runs slow, it's usually a connection issue
[09:17] <ObrienDave> 99.9% of the time
[09:18] <xubuntu498> i tought the same.
[09:19] <ObrienDave> anyway, installing xubuntu-restricted-extras won't harm your system and makes some video files appear cleaner
[09:19] <ObrienDave> and run smoother
[09:23] <xubuntu498> I found it in the softwarecenter.
[09:24] <ObrienDave> cool
[09:29] <xubuntu498> I allready have iced tea java and flashplayer.. shud i install the xubuntu restricted extras anyway ?
[09:30] <ObrienDave> it won't hurt
[09:51] <xubuntu355> is the xubuntu restricted extras installing the flashplayer over again ?
[09:52] <ObrienDave> could be, only if newer version
[09:54] <xubuntu355> shud i use this package on lubuntu too ? i found it in softwarecenter.
[09:55] <ObrienDave> there is a lubuntu-restricted-extras
[09:55] <ObrienDave> and a kubuntu-restricted-extras
[10:06] <xubuntu355> is this packaged include java ?
[10:08] <ObrienDave> not that i know of
[12:08] <TaxmanBD> hey guyz
[12:08] <TaxmanBD> anyone got a suggestion for lightweight browser? I tried midori and while it's quite lightweight it's terribly buggy
[13:19] <B11> Hello
[13:47] <Tots> Hiya guys, I need to get x11vnc to execute on startup pre-login. Where is the best place to write to and what params do I need to use to get it to play nicely? I'm using -forever and -usepw
[13:47] <Tots> I've tried writing to rc.local, and made a script in /etc/init/ and even tried adding a line in etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc
[13:48] <Unit193> I use an upstart job myself.
[13:50] <Tots> Doesn't upstart only work after you login?
[13:50] <Unit193> Upstart is the init system.  Start it on the right task and you're good.
[13:51] <Tots> how can I do this? I'm still a tad new to linux.
[13:52] <Unit193> I use http://paste.openstack.org/show/mD8aXqdAUH1bKxQip8Bi myself, but it really should be fixed.
[13:53] <Tots> why are you doing so much exporting of displays? Can't I just run x11vnc -usepw -forever and be solid? I've got something similar to that in my /etc/init
[13:55] <Tots> www.pastebin.com/sPu4PVkT is what I've got a x11vnc.conf in my /etc/init
[13:55] <akis> hi all. i need a little help. i tried to move from one user to another a directory containing other directories and i gave the command sudo mv /home/user/* /home/user_other/. the system doesnt gave me any error, the files are not any more in user but there not also in user_other. what happened?
[13:55] <Tots> Do I need to have that run by something or is everything in that directory automatically handled?
[13:58] <Unit193> Tots: You should check the log, but generally doesn't know what auth to use.
[13:58] <gabkdlly> akis: What user are you using to look at user_other ?
[13:58] <akis> i log in in user_other using the passw
[13:58] <Tots> Unit193, where can I find the log?
[13:59] <Tots> akis, so you'd enter the password of the user instead of a specific one?
[13:59] <gabkdlly> akis: My guess is that all the files and folders that got moved retained their ownership by user, and are thus not viewable by user_other.  Although, they might belong to root now, I don't know.
[14:00] <Tots> This should be easier. >.<
[14:00] <akis> i can log in on both user and user_other. both are my accounts
[14:02] <Unit193> Tots: Likely in /var/log/upstart/
[14:02] <gabkdlly> akis: Are user and user_other distinct accounts on your machine ?  I don't think the operating system cares that you actually are the same person, or even that you have the same password.  Though I might be missing what you are trying to say.
[14:02] <akis> when i was inside user i gave sudo mv /home/user/* /home/user_other/ and i saw that the system worked for some minutes because the files are some gb. after this operation no file is any more in /user but no file was move to /user_other. what happened?
[14:03] <gabkdlly> akis: I fear we are talking past each other :(
[14:03] <cfhowlett> akis, mv?  not cp?
[14:04] <akis> mv
[14:04] <akis> not cp
[14:05] <Tots> In the log, it says: Home unset in -usepw mode
[14:05] <Tots> That's it
[14:05] <Tots> If it doesn't know which auth to use, how do I tell it that?
[14:05] <Tots> And can you clarify what you mean by auth?
[14:08] <Unit193> Tots: That specific error is because it doesn't know what password file you're looking for, use -passwdfile or one of the other options to fix that issue.
 any idea on what happened? are they those files somewhere else in the system?
[14:09] <gabkdlly> akis: try: sudo ls /home/user_other/
[14:09] <cfhowlett> akis, ^^^ that
[14:09] <gabkdlly> akis: let me know what you see
[14:09] <gabkdlly> akis: but don't paste it here !
[14:10] <gabkdlly> akis: just describe it
[14:10] <akis> nothing !!! empty
[14:11] <cfhowlett> akis, sudo ls -a /home/user-other              will display hidden folders
[14:12] <akis> yea ok but it doesnt althought there are in their place the hidden.
[14:12] <akis> except hidden there is nothing else in this dir
[14:18] <gabkdlly> akis: Are either of the folders in question encrypted ?
[14:18] <akis> yep. both.
[14:18] <Tots> Unit193, in my startup logs, it is saying "Permission Denied" on the script. Do I need to change perms somewhere?
[14:19] <akis> actually both user accounts are encrypted
[14:20] <cfhowlett> akis, o m g
[14:21] <gabkdlly> akis:  Here are some things to be aware of when using encrypted home folders, in particular that the home folder of you users are not even mounted when each user is not logged in. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedHome
[14:24]  * GridCube facepalms
[14:26] <akis> and what can i do know to fix it? i still have safe the files on a portable media, but i am worry about where are they on my system after i gave the command. are they somewhere on /home/user_other or maybe in root directory?
[14:27] <Tots> Ok, I've got it even using -auth /mypath/.Xauthority, not it says XOpendisplay(":0") failed. since I told it to start with the system and it has appropriate rights, why is it doing this?
[14:27] <akis> i repeat the same command as cp -r and worked!
[14:30] <akis> i confirm that i repeated the same command as cp -r and worked. it is still musterious what happened with the first command mv.
[14:32]  * cfhowlett will believe it after a reboot and test
[14:47] <Tots> For Xubuntu's login screen, what should I use for the auth? /home/username/.Xauthority doesn't seem to do the trick
[14:47] <Tots> i'm running xfce4 as part of xubuntu-desktop
[14:58] <GridCube> Tots, for lightdm?
[15:00] <GridCube> if you mean the login manager, ubuntu uses lightdm, xubuntu is not different in this, and the configuration of lightdm is in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf, there you can change some settings for the login greeter, i am pretty sure there are other setting for lightdm that are not in lightdm.conf tho, can't help you there
[15:04] <Tots> oh ok, so it is lightdm. Thank you ^^
[15:47] <ratnakumari> how to use gigolo for file sharing?
[16:04] <xubuntu097> hello
[16:04] <mattxtn> hi
[16:04] <xubuntu097> I need some help
[16:04] <xubuntu097> I broke my computer :(
[16:04] <GridCube> !ask
[16:05] <GridCube> !details | xubuntu097
[16:05] <xubuntu097> I bought a computer with Windows 8.1 pre installed
[16:05] <xubuntu097> a ASUS computer
[16:05] <mattxtn> It's def broke then.
[16:05] <xubuntu097> I attempted to install Xubuntu 14.04 on it
[16:05] <xubuntu097> I followed a you tube tutorial on how to do it
[16:05] <xubuntu097> disable secure boot
[16:06] <xubuntu097> and fast boot
[16:06] <mattxtn> http://askubuntu.com/questions/364100/installing-xubuntu-alongside-with-uefi
[16:06] <xubuntu097> I shrunk my data partition in windows so that I had a bunch of free space
[16:06] <xubuntu097> went in and on that free space created a swap and /
[16:06] <xubuntu097> install went very smoothly
[16:07] <GridCube> mmhm
[16:07] <xubuntu097> rebooted and now nothing loads at all
[16:07] <xubuntu097> no windows boot loader nor grub
[16:07] <GridCube> did you installed from an usb device?
[16:07] <xubuntu097> it just keeps going to the bios
[16:07] <xubuntu097> DVD
[16:07] <GridCube> ok
[16:07] <GridCube> you are sure you enabled legacy boot?
[16:08] <GridCube> can you press F8 or F11, what ever it is in your pc, to choose the boot device?
[16:08] <xubuntu097> yes I can do that
[16:09] <xubuntu097> when I do that it lists my hard drives and cd's and all that
[16:09] <GridCube> mmhm, can you choose the device where you installed grub? and see if it boots?
[16:10] <xubuntu097> I can use that
[16:10] <xubuntu097> but when I do that, it just goes to the uefi again
[16:10] <xubuntu097> what I am thinking about trying is putting in the windows 8 dvd and asking it to repair startup
[16:10] <xubuntu097> just to see if I can get back to windows
[16:10] <GridCube> sure
[16:11] <GridCube> xubuntu097, can you boot to the install dvd?
[16:11] <xubuntu097> yes I can
[16:11] <xubuntu097> and live linux
[16:11] <mattxtn> Wouldn't he be better off loading boot-repair from a livecd/usb after making sure legacy boot is on?
[16:11] <xubuntu097> I am in the xubuntu live cd now
[16:11] <GridCube> if so you can try the boot-repair software
[16:11] <xubuntu097> what is that?
[16:11] <mattxtn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[16:11] <GridCube> xubuntu097, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[16:12] <xubuntu097> ok
[16:12] <xubuntu097> I will try that
[16:12] <mattxtn> use option 2 since you're in the livecd
[16:12] <GridCube> ^
[16:13] <xubuntu097> ok, let me try that
[16:14] <GridCube> xubuntu097, keep in mind all you are doing works over very sensitive areas of your computer, any change you do is under your own responsability, please read a lot before you choose to do something and never trust strangers on the internet at their first words
[16:15] <GridCube> that being said, boot-repair should work, in my experience it has always done so.
[16:15] <xubuntu097> GridCube: thanks
[16:16] <xubuntu097> I am new to this uefi thing
[16:16] <xubuntu097> seems like a joke
[16:16] <GridCube> mmhm, to many of us it does
[16:16] <mattxtn> big time
[16:16] <xubuntu097> I have installed into BIOS many times
[16:16] <xubuntu097> 0 problems
[16:16] <xubuntu097> ever
[16:18] <xubuntu097> I am going to have to try this when I get home from work
[16:18] <xubuntu097> I do not physically have access to the machine atm
[16:19] <xubuntu097> its sitting at home booted to the livecd
[16:19] <GridCube> :)
[16:19] <mattxtn> boot-repair will be there when you get home ;)
[16:19] <xubuntu097> I have been using the livecd for awhile
[16:19] <xubuntu097> I really love the xfce interface
[16:19] <mattxtn> sometimes i want to hug it
[16:20] <xubuntu097> it is so sheik
[16:20] <xubuntu097> shiek
[16:20] <xubuntu097> whichever is correct
[16:20] <xubuntu097> :P
[16:20] <mattxtn> i before e except... something something
[16:22] <xubuntu097> haha, I always think of that
[16:22] <xubuntu097> but then I cant remember then ending
[16:22] <xubuntu097> I thought it was I before E except after C
[16:23] <mattxtn> yeah that's it
[16:24] <xubuntu097> mattxtn: speaking of hugging XFCE, here is a screenshot of my VM. Love it! http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-14-09-02-120333pm.php
[16:26] <mattxtn> mine is pretty basic compared to that
[16:27] <xubuntu097> I thought mine was basic :P
[16:28] <mattxtn> http://i.imgur.com/0QBLlZ1.png
[16:33] <xubuntu097> I guess its not THAT basic
[16:33] <xubuntu097> hehe
[16:38] <SKOPPIO> qualcuno italiano
[16:39] <GridCube> !it | SKOPPIO
[16:39] <SKOPPIO> salve
[16:39] <GridCube> :)
[16:51] <csenger41> hello
[16:52] <csenger41> what is the Menu Editor's package name?
[16:52] <csenger41> it doeesn't start up
[16:52] <slickymasterWork> !hi | csenger41 ~
[16:52] <slickymasterWork> !hi | csenger41
[16:53] <slickymasterWork> stupid bot is sleeping
[16:58] <csenger41> hm?
[16:59] <brainwash> csenger41: menulibre
[16:59] <csenger41> brainwash: thanks, updating now, gonna check it out afterwise
[17:01] <Tots> can I have Xubuntu autologin?
[17:03] <csenger41> Tots: AFAIK yes you can
[17:03] <csenger41> you can turn off asking for password on startup
[17:04] <mattxtn> settings - users - your user - click change on password - check do not ask
[17:04] <csenger41> mattxtn: ^that
[17:06] <Quantibility> Is there any way to throw clients and operations onto a USB ? basiclly i just wanna throw chromes memory operations on the usb
[17:07] <Quantibility> chromes takes up alot of memory
[17:07] <Quantibility> and maybe Jack as well
[17:19] <Luyin> Quantibility: you could mount /tmp on USB, but I'm not sure this is an entirely good idea
[17:19] <Quantibility> Luyin  is temp the files used by the system for all or most processes?
[17:20] <Quantibility> tmp
[17:20] <Luyin> Quantibility: /tmp is a directory which typically stores the temporary files of the system
[17:20] <Quantibility> i have 32 gigs on a 3.0 usb on 2.0 connection...
[17:21] <Quantibility> specificlly looked for one that maxes out 2.0
[17:21] <Quantibility> why would it be a problem? perhaps an (if) statement to manage the non usb problem?
[17:22] <Quantibility> Luyin
[17:22] <Quantibility> so i would have to unmount the current tmp? and make a new one and mount it?
[17:23] <Luyin> Quantibility: actually I'd rather try to figure out if you can setup chrome to a special temp location instead of mounting the system /tmp to a removable stick
[17:24] <Quantibility> Luyin, its worth a shot on all levels, what im tyring to do is keep my main memory as low as possible and temp files fill shit up rediculously
[17:24] <Quantibility> it be nice to see if Jack can have the same thing installed
[17:25] <Quantibility> though i do have plenty... 8gigs ram.. but, hey i like trying diiferent things to see if i can get better perfromance
[17:25] <Quantibility> Luyin
[17:26] <Quantibility> i think tmp can have stuff writen to both can it not? and use USB solely untill its not there?
[17:26] <Luyin> Quantibility: I don't think you'll have fun with this. since everything will write to your stick then (which had to be formatted properly first), 1. your write times will be horribly low 2. your stick will soon be crab. I don't recommend doing this.
[17:26] <Luyin> Quantibility: and I won't give you support on this, I already regret mentioning this. better forget it
[17:27] <Quantibility> Luyin yes, i know my stick would be crap in time.. and i take heed in your warning.
[17:27] <Quantibility> why nooot :(
[17:27] <Quantibility> i have a new one in the mail Lol
[17:27] <Luyin> Quantibility: if you really wanna do this (and hereby I strongly recommend you'd drop the idea), see the infos on fstab and the mount command
[17:28] <Luyin> don't forget backing up your system. you have been warned
[17:28] <Quantibility> yeah been reading that.. i could make a script to control input output
[17:28] <Quantibility> yeah i have two HD externals i can back up all types of shit on... 320 gigs of back up space.
[17:29] <Quantibility> teach me to properly back up and well continue..
[17:42] <csenger41> hello, what can I do with this error?
[17:42] <csenger41> http://pastebin.com/wRbbVDJ6
[17:43] <deshipu> csenger41: install back the python libraries on which sofware-center depends
[17:44] <csenger41> where can I see the list of them?
[17:44] <deshipu> apt-cache show software-center
[17:45] <deshipu> but if you have it installed, they should be installed as well, unless you broke something pretty badly
[17:45] <csenger41> well I tried removing and installing again, but didn't work
[17:45] <deshipu> did you replace the system's python with some other version?
[17:46] <csenger41> no I think not, just added some stuff
[17:46] <csenger41> but upon installation, shouldn't it check those dependencies?
[17:46] <deshipu> yes
[17:46] <deshipu> that's why I said you must have something broken
[17:47] <csenger41> ohh great
[17:47] <csenger41> reinstalling then?
[17:48] <deshipu> maybe someone else will have better ideas
[17:48] <csenger41> reinstall xubuntu-desktop from Synaptics should help?
[17:49] <deshipu> no, I don't think it will help
[17:49] <csenger41> aww :(
[17:51] <csenger41> well I'm downloading xubuntu again and I'll try not messing too much with it next time
[17:59] <csenger41> thanks for the help, I guess I fcked up something really nice :D
[17:59] <csenger41> bye
[18:06] <akis>  hi all. i need a little help. i tried to move from one user to another a directory containing other directories and i gave the command sudo mv /home/user/* /home/user_other/. The system didnt return any error message, worked for a couple of minutes (because the whole size was about 5 gb). After the system returned to command prompt i checked if the files were moved and i realized that although  the files were not any more in /home/user (source
[18:06] <akis> ) there were not also in /home/user_other. In your opinion  what happened and the files disappeared? Where are they or they just deleted? Is it possible to be transfered somewhere else (i.e. inside root file system)? I have to mention that as i had a copy of these files i returned for a second try and i gave this time cp -r /home/user/directory /home/user_other/ and the whole direcrory with all subdirectories copied succesfully. But still i am
[18:06] <akis> wondering if i made any damage to my system or i sent those files with my first command somewhere else. Any idea?
[18:19] <asb> I installed Xubuntu 14.04.1 -- updated software -- installed NVidia proprietary driver (331) and restarted -- now lightdm hangs (it doesn't show the login dialog)
[18:20] <asb> Any one run into any issues after fresh install and updates?
[18:44] <holstein> akis: i have no idea what happened, but, in the future, i would have a copy on *another* drive, since *all* drives fail.. having that proper backup will help with any issue you may have. i would then use rsync.. i like grsync.. i would expect to sort out permissions.. i would not move, but copy, since there is no benefit to move over copy
[18:48] <akis> holstein, thank you for your answer. i just wondering if the whole directory was moved to my system file or somewhere else (who knows) and is getting space...
[18:49] <holstein> akis: i would look around for the files, and use a recovery application if needed.. testdisk photorec... whatever
[18:51] <akis> holstein: the files arent in my home. just the files i got after the cp -r. is there any possibility to be moved in the rest file system? i dont think so, but...
[18:51] <akis> is there search tool to help me?
[18:52] <holstein> akis: sure.. many "tools"..
[18:52] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/find
[18:52] <holstein> !info catfish
[18:53] <akis> can i use a live cd to search instead installing an application on my system?
[18:53] <holstein> akis: nothing is preventing that
[18:54] <holstein> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step is what i use for recovery
[18:56] <akis> holstein: ok thank you very much for your useful advices. i will take a look on these.
[18:59] <akis> holstein: i want also to report that i solve the problem we discussed here yersteday after i googled enough (i.e. slow internet) and  this worked fine for me : http://www.noobslab.com/2012/05/disable-ipv6-if-your-internet-is.html. I am very huppy that i can enjoy fast internet on both FF and Midori and keep my newly clean install 14.04 without be obliged for a downgrade (because for me under 12.04 everything was fine).
[19:27] <xubuntu097> has anyone setup enigmail before? I want to start signing my emails
[19:27] <xubuntu097> looks pretty easy to do
[19:27] <HedgeMage> xubuntu097: Yep, and I've taught it a couple of times.
[19:27] <HedgeMage> xubuntu097: just ask if you need help (though be advised that I'm at work, thus disappearing on and off)
[19:28] <xubuntu097> HedgeMage: what do you mean, you have taught it?
[19:28] <HedgeMage> xubuntu097: I've run a few cryptoparties, and sometimes work sends me to teach people better security hygeine.
[19:28] <HedgeMage> NBD
[19:28] <xubuntu097> awesome!
[19:28] <HedgeMage> :)
[19:29] <xubuntu097> The only thing is, I think I have a key out there that I published a long time ago
[19:29] <xubuntu097> is there a way to remove it?
[19:29] <ObrienDave> just make a new key
[19:29] <HedgeMage> Depends, do you have the secret key and passphrase, or a revocation certificate for it?
[19:29] <HedgeMage> If not, you'll have to just let it be.
[19:29] <xubuntu097> nope, I have none of that
[19:29] <xubuntu097> I don't mind if it is out there
[19:29] <xubuntu097> I just dont want people to get confused
[19:29] <HedgeMage> This is why I don't make keys without expirations.  They eventually outmode even if I lose the passphrase. :)
[19:30] <xubuntu097> maybe it did have an expiration
[19:30] <xubuntu097> i forgot what the website was where you check for them
[19:30] <xubuntu097> let me check
[19:30] <HedgeMage> I wouldn't worry too much unless it was widely signed AND hasn't expired AND people are depending on keyservers to guess your key rather than getting at least an ID from you.
[19:31] <xubuntu097> ok, cool
[19:31] <xubuntu097> the only downside to it, is that there are not a lot of people that encrypt their mail
[19:31] <xubuntu097> :(
[19:32] <HedgeMage> There are in the right social circles. ;)
[19:32] <HedgeMage> And, seeing you using it may inspire some of the people you know to learn.
[19:32] <xubuntu097> how will they know that I do it, if I cant encrypt it to them?
[19:32] <xubuntu097> Oh, I guess I can still sign them
[19:32] <HedgeMage> You can still sign them.
[19:32] <HedgeMage> Yep. :)
[19:33] <xubuntu097> then hopefully I can keep my crappy government out of my emails
[19:34] <HedgeMage> :)
[19:37] <xubuntu097> HedgeMage: do you have any issues using enigmail accross different physical machines?
[19:38] <HedgeMage> xubuntu097: No.  I've got it running on four machines using two keys without issue.
[19:38] <xubuntu097> so you just export the private key to the other machines?
[19:39] <HedgeMage> Yes, though I'm careful about my work private key only being on work machines, and my personal private key only being on personal machines.
[19:41] <xubuntu097> is that stored in an encrypted file, or is it plain text?
[19:42] <HedgeMage> While you *can* make a passphraseless private key, doing so is stupid outside certain server applications.  Normally, your private key is encrypted with a passphrase you select.
[19:43] <xubuntu097> ok, just wanted to make sure it was not stored in plain text. That would be very unintelligent
[19:44] <HedgeMage> It would.
[19:48] <xubuntu097> I have a very basic question, and it speaks to my ignorance on this particular subject. But, can you flash a UEFI motherboard and just install BIOS?
[19:50] <ObrienDave> probably not
[19:50] <HedgeMage> In theory, you could if you had access to a BIOS image suited to the board, however...the likelihood of that being the case is near-nil.
[20:01] <xubuntu097> the windows 8 computer that I got has really caused all sorts of problems
[20:01] <xubuntu097> I cant stand UEFI
[20:40] <xubuntu880> i installed 14.04, but now my screen is flickering. i have a toshiba sattilite with an ati graphics card please help. Thanks!
[20:41] <deshipu> !ati
[20:41] <xubuntu880> hope it works! thanks!
[21:19] <xubuntu880> . flickering problem re: the drivers won't work. i am using an x1200 series graphics card. Any modded drivers for linux
[21:21] <xubuntu880> . flickering problem re: the drivers won't work. i am using an x1200 series graphics card. Any modded drivers for linux? Anyone?
[21:23] <xubuntu880> . flickering problem re: the drivers won't work. i am using an x1200 series graphics card. Any modded drivers for linux? Anyone?  Help!
[21:24] <Hedgework> xubuntu880: quit being an asshole.
[21:24] <Hedgework> xubuntu880: Spam is not welcome here.
[21:27] <xubuntu097> that was interesting
[21:29] <knome> Hedgework, for what it's worth, there are nicer ways to put that, please consider that with the fact that this channel is supposed to be family-friendly.
[22:44] <xubuntu097> Does anyone know if the Chromium project has google embedded tracking stuff in it?
[22:55] <mattxtn> this may help xubuntu097: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome
[22:59] <xubuntu097> mattxtn: that is nice. But unless I missed something, that does not talk about the reporting of usage to Google. I guess I don't know what "User Metrics" are
[23:00] <mattxtn> https://github.com/nylira/prism-break/issues/169
[23:05] <mattxtn> DeviceMetricsReportingEnabled
[23:05] <mattxtn> Enable metrics reporting
[23:05] <mattxtn> Data type:
[23:05] <mattxtn>     Boolean
[23:05] <mattxtn> Supported on:
[23:05] <mattxtn>         Chromium OS (Chromium OS) since version 14
[23:05] <mattxtn> Supported features:
[23:05] <mattxtn>     Dynamic Policy Refresh: Yes
[23:05] <mattxtn> Description:
[23:05] <mattxtn>     Controls whether usage metrics are reported back to Google. If set to true, Chromium OS will report usage metrics. If not configured or set to false, metrics reporting will be disabled.
[23:05] <mattxtn> ouch sorry for massive paste
[23:06] <xubuntu097> ah, it does do some reporting
[23:06] <xubuntu097> also, this was interesting - http://i.imgur.com/61bSoGs.png
[23:11] <mattxtn> agreed
[23:35] <xubuntu097> anyone know any good linux games like risk or diplomacy?
[23:36] <xubuntu097> I have been in the mood for a good strategy game for awhile
[23:36] <holstein> !info domination
[23:37] <mattxtn> !fail
[23:37] <mattxtn> :)
[23:37] <holstein> !info luxdelux
[23:37] <Unit193> holstein: Yeah, that first one is a fairly good risk version.
[23:37] <holstein> !info ksirk
[23:38] <holstein> i *knew* we had one in the default repos :)
[23:38] <knome> risk-like? roll a die per person, biggest roll wins. reroll ties.
[23:38] <xubuntu097> I don't care that much
[23:38] <xubuntu097> I just want to do some world wide strategy against other players
[23:38] <xubuntu097> form armies
[23:39] <xubuntu097> secure countries
[23:39] <holstein> xubuntu097: try the ones mentioned above ^
[23:39] <knome> "strategy"? :)
[23:39] <mattxtn> mines?
[23:40] <xubuntu097> did I misspell it or something?
[23:40] <xubuntu097> my brain is fried today
[23:41] <knome> sorry... the irony must have lost in transmission. i don't think risk has any more strategy than a dieroll.
[23:41] <xubuntu097> oh
[23:41] <xubuntu097> It does have some
[23:41] <xubuntu097> where to place your armies
[23:41] <xubuntu097> how far to proceed
[23:41] <xubuntu097> where to defend
[23:41] <knome> that's not the scope of this channel anyway ;)
[23:42] <xubuntu097> ultimately it is possible for one guy to defeat loads of guys
[23:42] <xubuntu097> but thats possible in real life as well
[23:42] <xubuntu097> :P
[23:43] <ObrienDave> try AAA http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki
[23:45] <xubuntu097> woow! ObrienDave
[23:45] <xubuntu097> that looks the best so far!
[23:45] <ObrienDave> it's actually fun to play, many different "boards" available


[00:06] <m0nkey_> diddledani: i just noticed, what's with the new persona?
[01:09] <diddledani> Yeah. About that. Lockdown-induced self reflection 😊
[01:12] <diddledani> I’ve been renaming all my things to match today… I came to the conclusion I have too many things! I’m sure I missed a whole slew though
[01:13] <diddledani> You need clippy to help out your perforce problems 😛
[01:14] <diddledani> 📎
[01:14] <zxm-pi> keybase still says diddledan above dani
[01:14] <diddledani> Yeah, they won’t let me change username 😭
[01:14] <zxm-pi> bugger
[01:15] <zxm-pi> report that as a bug
[01:15] <diddledani> The Ubuntu discourse and Snapcraft forum won’t let me change there, either
[01:16] <zxm-pi> and send them a copy of https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
[01:20] <diddledani> That’s 👍
[03:27]  * ball contemplates going to bed.
[09:08] <bigcalm> Sup?