[20:59] <cdbs> but does anyone know where the info for the sessions listed in GDM is located?
[21:01] <cdbs> where means in which package
[21:17] <skullboy> ok i hate the changes made to the gui in ubuntu 11.04 how do i make it look the same as ubuntu 10.10
[21:19] <charlie-tca> change to classic session at login, pick your username, select classic-session at the bottom, then enter the password.
[21:20] <skullboy> can someone tell me how to make the ubuntu 11.04 gui look like 10.10 the chan is not supporting me
[21:57] <gyger> does anyone have guidance for getting the launcher to show on unity-2d? I have the package unity-2d-launcher (as well as the other unity-2d packages) installed but there is no launcher down the left side of my screen. Please help.
[22:00] <thiebaude> anyone know the terminal command to install nvidia drivers?
[22:03] <bjsnider> thiebaude, sudo jockey-text -e xorg:nvidia-current
[22:03] <thiebaude> thanks, im in irssi now, i'll try that then i think i just stick with waht i have
[22:04] <thiebaude> xit
[22:04] <thiebaude> opps
[22:06] <gyger> can someone help me with my unity 2d issue?
[22:07] <thiebaud1> i tried that, but it says unknown driver
[22:09] <bjsnider> thiebaude, sudo jockey-text -e xorg:nvidia_current
[22:10] <thiebaud1> ok ,cool
[22:11] <thiebaud1> q
[22:11] <slyrus_> yay. after various grub machinations and waving enough dead chickens, I finally managed to get this thing to boot from the new drive (without having the old one around anymore)
[22:16] <thiebaude> bjsnider, it worked, thanks again :)
[22:16] <thiebaude> im back at my desktop
[22:23] <Malina> ah ok
[22:24] <Malina> install ofr me was continouls broken
[22:24] <Malina> ati card,
[22:24] <Malina> ubtil I skipped dowbnloadable files, then I didn't get a broken package
[22:25] <Malina> but ah well, a lil bit of hacking and booting the iso from disk got it all kinda working in the end, but unfortunately IM leaving ubuntu after 2 yrs with this unity thing
[22:26] <Malina> is there a way to lock down gnome 2 say or so, so that any upgrades/dist upgrade, doesn't install unity/G3 or so?
[22:36] <Daekdroom> Malina, using Unity is entirely optional, and natty doesn't ship GNOME 3
[22:39] <incorrect> so i plugged my encrypted usb stick in and it asked me for the passphrase
[22:39] <incorrect> but didn't leave me able to find the drive
[22:40] <Malina> ye
[22:40] <Malina> so in my beta no then ith unity
[22:40] <Malina> hwo do I get rid of it?>
[22:40] <Malina> and turn on normal gnome ?
[22:40] <incorrect> log out
[22:41] <incorrect> select normal gnome
[22:41] <Daekdroom> Malina, log out, select "Ubuntu Classic" in the bottom bar.
[22:41] <incorrect> unity is better than gnome imho, just needs fixing
[22:41]  * thiebaude compiz almost using 200mb
[22:42] <Malina> when I liogged out, I dont see session chooser you see
[22:44] <incorrect> oh i think the ath9k wifi just got fixed
[22:44] <incorrect> happiness
[22:47] <incorrect> oh yes that looks to be fixed
[22:48] <incorrect> oh maybe not
[22:55] <Sprechkaese> i want to start unity to get used to it, but since i only have metacity (and that as a my standard window manager) I do not know exactly how to start it. I installed "unity" and "compiz" with all dependencies, but where can I replace my window manager?
[22:59] <Malina> Daekdroom, thank you!!
[22:59] <Malina> I will try it (am on lubuntu livecd for now)
[22:59] <Malina> which resides on my ntfs winpe partition at end of disk and launched form there :P
[23:02] <penguin42> Sprechkaese: The easiest way is after selecting your user, during login you should get an option to select either 'Ubuntu' or classic, if you select Ubuntu you should get unity if you have everything
[23:04] <gordonjcp> trism: I'll try that, thanks
[23:07] <alexs> urgh deja dup is broken too
[23:07] <alexs> https://bugs.launchpad.net/deja-dup/+bug/729196
[23:16] <BUGabundo> guud evening folks! sofa time
[23:18] <habanany> i'm loving it
[23:24] <Sprechkaese> how can I find out if my integrated bluetooth device is supported? i can find nothing at lsusb and lspci. bluetooth worked before upgrading to 11.04.
[23:25] <nemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/648180/comments/6
[23:25] <nemo> heh same solution I came up with
[23:25] <nemo> pretend unity is not there
[23:26] <gordonjcp> I'm keen to try trism's ideas for getting rid of the nauseating drop-shadow
[23:26] <gordonjcp> that sounds like a fairly win solution
[23:29] <GaryD> Hey all. Is there a way to upgrade from 10.10 without upgrading xorg and nvidia? I can't use 11.04 with nvidia 173 on my computer.
[23:30] <nemo> gordonjcp: get rid of unity window decorator
[23:30] <nemo> gordonjcp: use gtk window decorator instead
[23:30] <nemo> no more nauseating dropshadow
[23:30] <gordonjcp> nemo: not sure how to go about that
[23:30] <nemo> gordonjcp: irritatingly, you can't do that from ccsm - the ccsm setting to pick decorator is simply ignored
[23:30] <nemo> gordonjcp: have to do it in gconf
[23:31] <Daekdroom> nemo, doesn't that imply not being able to use unity at all?
[23:31] <gordonjcp> nemo: I noticed that when I turned off window decorators in ccsm Unity had a total shitfit
[23:31] <nemo> Daekdroom: right.
[23:31] <nemo> Daekdroom: problem was unity was contaminating gnome classic too
[23:31] <nemo> Daekdroom: so not only was it a completely unusable and slow and crashy POS on its own
[23:32] <nemo> but it also was making the more stable gnome slow.
[23:32] <nemo> anyway, I replaced /apps/compiz-1/plugins/decor/screen0/options/command
[23:32] <nemo> and
[23:32] <nemo>  /apps/compizconfig-1/profiles/unity/plugins/decor/screen0/options/command
[23:33] <nemo> with /usr/bin/gtk-window-decorator --replace
[23:33] <nemo> aaand. no more problems
[23:33] <nemo> 2nd one might not have been necessary - the whole "unity" thing is suggestive.  oh well, I can reset it if it indeed screws up unity
[23:33] <nemo> not that I plan to ever use it any time soon. once burned...
[23:34] <marcster> anyone else having problems with sources? Something created a "--natty.list" in my sources.list.d directory and it causes 404 errors every time I try to update
[23:34] <nemo> marcster: so erase it?
[23:35] <nemo> gordonjcp: if for some reason you want to still use unity though, looks like unity-window-decorator takes a few options
[23:36] <nemo> gordonjcp: unity-window-decorator --help
[23:36] <nemo> perhaps one of those can be set in your gconf to tame things
[23:36] <gordonjcp> nemo: I need to construct /boot/grub/menu.lst before I can play
[23:37] <nemo> I searched for bugs related to why this stuff in ccsm doesn't work. apparently, and this predates unity, they decided stuff like shadow should be theme dependent (!)
[23:37] <nemo> of course themes have no interface for configuring this
[23:37] <nemo> so it basically amounts to making it unremovable
[23:37] <gordonjcp> since Grub 2 obliterated my boot loader without asking
[23:37] <nemo> I don't know if unity carries it a step further and completely makes it undisableable, or if simply switching themes would fix things, assuming one could be found that had this setting
[23:38] <gordonjcp> nemo: I get the impression that Ubuntu is being driven by l33t skr1pt k1dd13zzz
[23:38] <nemo> I think they were well intentioned
[23:38] <nemo> wanted to be innovative, radical, reinvent the desktop etc
[23:38] <marcster> nemo: easy enough to do... just wondering if there's a good way to clean / fix my sources.
[23:38] <nemo> which I'm fine with. it is just the whole making it default and not easy to disable
[23:38] <gordonjcp> hence the tiny fonts and dark-grey-on-dark-grey text
[23:39] <nemo> it should have been optional, and a nice screen on users being inflicted with it offering a simple set of instructions or a button to switch back
[23:39] <gordonjcp> don't get me wrong, Unity looks like it has a lot of potential
[23:39] <nemo> and later, if they get the same level of stability and support as gnome, perhaps then...
[23:39] <gordonjcp> and I guess we're seeing it way, way before release
[23:40] <nemo> indeed
[23:40] <gordonjcp> but the theme sucks, and the overall usability is way poor
[23:40] <nemo> despite that release being (apparently) a few weeks away
[23:40] <nemo> yep
[23:40] <nemo> features/customisation/usability/stability
[23:40] <nemo> all irritating
[23:40] <gordonjcp> I'm guessing that the really hard-to-read colour choices will be sorted out in before release
[23:40] <gordonjcp> artwork is always the last thing to get put in
[23:41] <nemo> eh. basic UI annoys me too, and I was trying hard to get used to it
[23:41] <gordonjcp> the lack of a task bar annoys me
[23:41] <gordonjcp> I know I keep harping on about it
[23:41] <nemo> windows would pop up half off-screen
[23:41] <nemo> had to use alt + mouse to move 'em
[23:41] <gordonjcp> but the strip down the side with the little squares confuses the hell out of me
[23:41] <GaryD> Hey all. Is there a way to upgrade from 10.10 without upgrading xorg and nvidia? I can't use 11.04 with nvidia 173 on my computer.
[23:41] <nemo> gordonjcp: they are trying for the OSX look
[23:41] <gordonjcp> nemo: I can't use OSX
[23:41] <nemo> gordonjcp: I think they've always admired OSX
[23:41] <nemo> the bar on the left is the OSX bar.
[23:42] <nemo> the titlebar integrated at top is an OSX thing
[23:42] <gordonjcp> oh okay
[23:42] <gordonjcp> nemo: the menu bar at the top is a Mac OS thing from the very first versions
[23:42] <nemo> well. OSX keeps the titlebar, but you know, the menubar
[23:42] <nemo> right
[23:42] <nemo> sorry. analogising
[23:42] <nemo> I think they were trying to go one step further on that though
[23:43] <gordonjcp> so the side bar with the squares is the same thing as the Mac OSX bar at the bottom with the squares?
[23:43] <nemo> well. I have one sitting right next to me right now :)
[23:43] <nemo> let's see
[23:43] <nemo> has common applications, which can be pinned
[23:43] <nemo> has active applications, and the little flip-out thing for 'em
[23:43] <nemo> as functions like trash bar, or downloaded files
[23:43] <gordonjcp> I don't really know what those are
[23:43] <nemo> seems pretty similar to me
[23:43] <gordonjcp> there's no task bar with the window name
[23:43] <gordonjcp> you can mouse over the squares and see what it's supposed to be
[23:44] <nemo> right?
[23:44] <marcster> it has a far smarter auto-hide than mac's dock though
[23:44] <nemo> gordonjcp: that's about how the mac one works
[23:44] <gordonjcp> nemo: right, but I don't know what the squares are
[23:44] <nemo> I wonder what the mac one does when it runs out of room
[23:44] <gordonjcp> well, if I mouse over them the name pops up
[23:45] <nemo> since that's much more easy to do w/ vertical, esp on a notebook screen
[23:45] <marcster> nemo: I think the mac one just keeps scaling down the icons so they all fit
[23:46] <nemo> mm
[23:46] <nemo> I guess that makes sense
[23:46] <nemo> alright, I'd have to add like another 20 apps on here then before it would get unviewable
[23:46] <gordonjcp> I can't even tell what the icons are though
[23:46] <gordonjcp> so it loses a lot of usability compared to a normal taskbar
[23:46] <nemo> gordonjcp: it doesn't have the name on hover? like under OSX?
[23:46] <nemo> I can't remember. I ditched unity like a month ago
[23:47] <gordonjcp> nemo: it does, but that means I have to hover over each icon for a few seconds until the name pops up
[23:47] <gordonjcp> or, just click and hope I guessed right
[23:47] <nemo> gordonjcp: ok. that's the same thing OSX users do :)
[23:47] <nemo> gordonjcp: apparently they get used to it. apparently
[23:47] <gordonjcp> nemo: tbh I suspect it's just me
[23:47] <gordonjcp> I can't tell the difference between icons
[23:47] <nemo> huh.
[23:47] <gordonjcp> I can tell they're supposed to be differen
[23:47] <gordonjcp> *different
[23:48] <nemo> gordonjcp: is the theme?
[23:48] <nemo> or maybe you have a really bad resolution?
[23:48] <gordonjcp> nemo: my brain does ;-)
[23:48] <gordonjcp> I can tell you what colour it is and roughly what shape it is but not what it is
[23:48] <gordonjcp> it's a dyslexia thing
[23:48] <gordonjcp> like, I can pick out the Firefox icon because it's orange
[23:48] <nemo> ah. interesting
[23:49] <gordonjcp> stick another orange icon beside it and I'm fucked, instantly
[23:49] <nemo> gordonjcp: so if it was just the printed name, you'd be ok?
[23:49] <gordonjcp> yup
[23:49] <nemo> gordonjcp: I suppose you tend to enable "show names and icons" like in firefox :)
[23:49] <gordonjcp> clicking on things in a menu of icons, or icon view window is a dead loss
[23:49] <gordonjcp> text menus are fine
[23:49] <nemo> or even just "show text"
[23:49] <gordonjcp> if I really work at it I can get by with just icons
[23:50] <nemo> no, I mean, if you choose "customise" in firefox - did you choose icons, text and icons, or text?
[23:50] <amx109> i upgraded 10.10 to 11.04 and now i have very weird screen redraw problems. the desktop isnt drawing properly and clicking my mouse on the screen results in weird behaviour, like sections of it being blacked out. can anyone help?
[23:50] <gordonjcp> but it's too much effort to use an iOS phone, for example
[23:50] <PatrickC_Ubuntu> how do i install vbox on 11.04?
[23:50] <nemo> amx109: yeah, that sounds familiar
[23:50] <nemo> amx109: my wimpy intel graphics card on one computer (ubuntu) and my nvidia 120m under windows xP (another computer) have that issue when too much is demanded of them
[23:50] <gordonjcp> right, nn all
[23:51] <nemo> amx109: does it happen if you switch to gnome classic and pick "no desktop effects" ?
[23:51] <nemo> or minimal effects?
[23:52] <amx109> nemo, not tried that yet. hadnt thought of it. just so you know, i have an ATI card
[23:53] <nemo> amx109: using fglrx?
[23:53] <amx109> nemo, i /think/ so. i always forget what ive enabled/installed..
[23:53] <pooltable> hi can this be run in a V BOX ?
[23:54] <pooltable> where to download if so?
[23:54] <PatrickC_Ubuntu> ^^ same question
[23:54] <nemo> amx109: I don't know where this is in unity, but can you launch jockey-gtk ?
[23:54] <amx109> nemo, ill try a blind alt+f2..
[23:55] <amx109> nemo, ahar, excellent! i get a half rendered graphics card hardware driver dialog..
[23:55] <nemo> hehe
[23:56] <nemo> amx109: well, you can always try the gnome classic + metacity first
[23:56] <nemo> before trying to launch jockey
[23:56] <nemo> perhaps you'll get more readable of menus
[23:56] <amx109> well, movin the window revealed hte 'remove' button - i might be on to something
[23:56] <nemo> oh
[23:56] <nemo> huh. so it is using fglrx already...
[23:57] <amx109> yes. i probably shouldnt have removed it then..
[23:57]  * nemo shrugs
[23:57] <nemo> well. try plain old non-composited metacity
[23:57] <nemo> I bet it is better behaved
[23:58] <amx109> nemo, logged in/out - now my screen looks like lined wallpaper
[23:58] <amx109> :D
[23:58] <nemo> :)
[23:59] <amx109> and a alt+ctrl+f1 reveals lots of snow. yay for gfx driver breakage
[23:59] <nemo> amx109: gnome classic!


[00:00] <el> so the exact same behaviour a year ago from your account was not to do with a child building a computer?
[00:00] <RxMcDonald> We got the case, the power supply, the mother board, 2 SSD
[00:00] <RxMcDonald> Well, it was probably him as well, but can't remember really what happened a year ago
[00:01] <RxMcDonald> He was 11 years old by then, it's the only thing I can think of
[00:01] <dax> that's odd, since your first comment upon joining #ubuntu-offtopic was referring to it
[00:01] <dax> and your first comments upon joining here clearly implied that you yourself joined #ubuntu-offtopic
[00:01] <dax> so, again, I'm not buying this at all, but feel free to continue contorting your argument to fix the above
[00:02] <RxMcDonald> I mean, I usually join ubuntu offtopic so I didn't understand why I was banned
[00:02] <RxMcDonald> Tried to join yesterday and I couldn't
[00:03] <dax> that's odd then, considering I don't see you in there for six months before the day that you got banned
[00:04] <dax> and, notably, your questions weren't any more sane six months ago either, so I assume that was in fact your son too
[00:06] <dax> and going back earlier than that, oh look, your behavior between six and twelve months ago was without exception the same too
[00:06] <el> a child that doesn't know that a cpu isn't a computer but at the same time knows what a "low level systems software engineer" is
[00:06] <RxMcDonald> Yeah that's my job
[00:07] <RxMcDonald> I guess he was bored or something?
[00:07] <el> who needed help with html that, and i quote, <RxMcDonald>    it runs some very low level JavaScript close to the metal"
[00:07] <RxMcDonald> haha that's my boy
[00:07] <dax> Please go ahead and let us know all alternate nicks and accounts you are using to "usually join ubuntu offtopic", thanks.
[00:07] <dax> since, clearly, it's not your current one
[00:08] <wxl> is his name pinnochio?
[00:09] <RxMcDonald> hey man cmon
[00:10] <RxMcDonald> you were kids some day too
[00:10] <RxMcDonald> that javascript joke is harmless
[00:10] <el> well since the only use of our channels has been from your son, you don't need us to unban you, as you don't actually use them.
[00:10] <el> good day
[00:11] <RxMcDonald> I wanted to use it yesterday and I was banned
[00:11] <el> bad luck, your son has ruined that opportunity for you.
[00:12] <dax> it's odd that you would suddenly want to use it for, as far as anyone can tell, the first time ever, right after "your son" got banned from it
[00:12] <dax> so yes, considering the complete lack of non-problematic behavior on your account (which, I note, you are fully responsible for if you share it), and the apparent inability for anyone to distinguish between "your son" and you, you will remain banned
[00:13] <RxMcDonald> seriously?
[00:13] <dax> and, I do note that my previous question did not get answered yet, on the off chance that you want to continue talking in here anyway
[00:14] <dax> 00:07:52 <+dax> Please go ahead and let us know all alternate nicks and accounts you are using to "usually join ubuntu offtopic", thanks.
[00:14] <dax> 00:07:58 <+dax> since, clearly, it's not your current one
[00:14] <RxMcDonald> Instead of drunk driving or doing drugs my kid is doing harmless javasript jokes
[00:14] <RxMcDonald> No need to ban him for that
[00:14] <hggdh> he is not banned, *you* are banned
[00:14] <wxl> you're banned, my friend. you need to take responsibility for your account as aforementioned.
[05:41] <dax> krytarik: i apologize in advance for ruining your evening, but 88 is often used as code for Heil Hitler
[05:41] <dax> (H being the 8th letter of the alphabet)
[05:42] <krytarik> Wow, one can make bad things of *anything*, can't one!? >_>
[05:42] <dax> indeed.


[02:46] <prologic> Hi all 👋 I'm having a lot of difficulty trying to run a simple script per instance (i.e: cloud-init-per once) via cloud-init's runcmd module. It looks like (but I can't prove it) that cloud-init silently kills my script for running too long?
[02:46] <prologic> Is this at all the case? I can find no documentation on this.
[02:46] <prologic> My script does: wait for an ip to come up (from dhcp) excluding a few interfaces we don't care about, once that ip is known, reconfigure some pre-installed software (from the packer image) and restart some services.
[02:47] <prologic> Alternative question; Am I abusing cloud-init here?
[11:52] <stevenm> Odd_Bloke, so I read ... what you wrote
[11:54] <stevenm> That it really - they were words
[11:54] <stevenm> They did at least enter my brain
[11:55] <stevenm> I really hate the word cloud
[12:13] <meena> prologic: how long is that script running for when you run it without cloud-init? and, why can't you do that configuration via cloud-init's Network… things… netplan let's you do fairly complex configuration scenarios, and that's basically what the v2 network config format is
[12:14] <prologic> Oh I see so I am abusing cloud-init's runcmd(s)
[12:15] <prologic> Can you point me to where I can read more about this network / netplan stuff?
[12:15] <prologic> As for long long, well as long as it takes dhcp to assign an ip to the interfacee I'm interested in
[12:15] <prologic> so not long
[12:16] <prologic> multiple seconds I guess, I can't get it to work in cloud-init via runcmd so 🤷♂
[12:45] <unix_> prologic, https://paste.unix-comp-airnet.net/paste/5eHuuzBg#2jnV-G+fjpy5l+uT8P5IhV9vp9mxvzyr8vtdcTzD+Xc
[12:46] <unix_> i do the same on a smartos system
[12:46] <unix_> host: smartos
[12:46] <unix_> vm: centos
[12:46] <unix_> "user-script" section
[12:48] <prologic> I don't understand what you're showing me
[12:48] <prologic> this just looks likee you're configuring the network
[12:48] <prologic> I'm trying to configure a piece of (questionable) software _after_ the network is up
[12:48] <prologic> or more precisely after a particular interface has an address I know is routable
[13:52] <austinK> Good day anyone able help answer some questions?
[14:58] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/829 is now un-WIP'd and ready for full review.
[14:59] <Odd_Bloke> stevenm: Clouds, clouds everywhere, nor any drop to drink.
[15:00] <Odd_Bloke> prologic: I'd be surprised if `runcmd` was being killed due to timing, but something strange may be going on.  Could you pastebin cloud-init.log from an affected instance?
[15:15] <stevenm> Odd_Bloke, :)
[15:16] <stevenm> We (and when I say we.. I mean who I work for) don't really want to have an ongoing 'connection' with the software our customers are choosing to run inside the VM's we host for them - at all really :)
[15:17] <stevenm> So I was just hoping to use cloud-init ready images and cloud-init (via Proxmox VE) to just pre-seed certain things (e.g. to get the network working, that's mostly it) on first time boot *only*
[15:26] <Odd_Bloke> stevenm: Do you (and when I say you.. ;) have an image capture story for your users?  By which I mean: can they launch a VM, then capture its filesystem and launch new VMs from that captured image?
[15:28] <stevenm> I don't think our users care about having that functionality
[15:47] <Odd_Bloke> stevenm: Right, but if it's available and they were to use it and you've completely disabled cloud-init, then their new VMs will behave very unexpectedly (and insecurely: SSH host keys will not be rotated, for example).  I don't know enough about Proxmox to know if such capacity is available by default.
[15:48] <Odd_Bloke> stevenm: But, also, cloud-init does only perform most of its actions on first boot, so I'm not exactly sure what issue you're seeing that we're trying to address here. :)
[15:53] <stevenm> I was hoping that this would just be a channel (in the form of a virtual CD-ROM drive) to communicate certain first-time setup information only
[15:53] <stevenm> And that is it.
[15:53] <stevenm> No reliance on cloud-init support from the hypervisor afterwards
[15:54] <stevenm> I'd rather give customers a blank VM and some space for them to upload their own ISOs
[15:54] <stevenm> We want that little involvement in what they run inside the VMs
[15:54] <Odd_Bloke> I would expect Proxmox to handle that for you: cloud-init will use DMI data to determine if the instance ID has changed.
[15:54] <stevenm> stop calling them "instances" :P
[15:55] <stevenm> The customer can run BeOS in them for all I care :P  They're VMs - plain and simple.
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> You can have BeOS cloud instances, so I'm not sure what your point there is. :p
[15:57] <Odd_Bloke> But, sure, cloud-init will use DMI data to determine if the VM ID has changed. :)
[15:58] <stevenm> Here is my Windows 95 Cloud Instance...
[15:58] <stevenm> https://i.snipboard.io/H8mKTq.jpg
[15:58] <stevenm> Who knew they were ahead of their time.
[15:58] <Odd_Bloke> I'd call that a cloud image, not an instance. ;)
[15:58] <stevenm> Nah I want cloud-init OUT OF IT :) Well... after that initial first time setup anyway.
[15:59] <stevenm> So maybe this isn't for us.
[15:59] <Odd_Bloke> Maybe: will users be able to upload and use their own images?
[15:59] <stevenm> Certainly ISO's... not sure about anything else.
[15:59] <Odd_Bloke> (Most VM images are built with cloud-init included already.)
[16:01] <stevenm> Personally I don't mind if they upload disk images or indeed anything else like templates (cloud-init ready or not)
[16:03] <stevenm> and apparently the customer-facing front end we were going to buy in... supports it too
[16:03] <stevenm> (cloud-init)
[16:14] <blackboxsw> stevenm: meena Odd_Bloke, I'm probably missing the point here(and risk of cloud-init not fixing a network across a machine/image that has changed across reboots), but cloud-init running once could be done providing the "#cloud-config\nruncmd: [touch /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled]" with initial userdata or config in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/ which would get you a system that'll do it's cloud-init thing 1 time.
[16:15] <blackboxsw> that system though would be static and never reprovision again as long as  /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled exists, so the image would likely be fragile if moved from one network to another
[16:15] <blackboxsw> again, just a drive by comment without full context
[17:12] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: We're chatting about testing for the upcoming SRU and we were wondering if https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/709 is something that we can reproduce as regular users, or if that's only an issue in internal deployments?
[18:45] <xscori> Odd_Bloke well, it used to work fine until 18.5. Our current RHEL ssh keys are where we expect them (i.e. what we specified in /etc/ssh/sshd_config for "authorizedkeysfile"). It just seems to be broken afterwards. Here is my bug report on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1917817
[18:46] <xscori> I actually tried runcmd: [bin/cp, /home/%u/.ssh/authorized_keys, /etc/ssh/auth_keys/%u] thinking I could copy the file once it is inserted, but that did not seem to work either, I could not tell why from logs.
[19:54] <meena> xscori: why would runcmd know how to resolve %u?
[20:02] <xscori> you mean it does not?
[20:05] <xscori> meena I was looking at the code base and saw https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/master/cloudinit/ssh_util.py#L237 I assumed runcmd would understand %u and resolve it as well.
[20:06] <meena> I'm fairly certain it does not
[20:06] <meena> what would be the context of %u?
[20:06] <Odd_Bloke> xscori: %u is templating that sshd uses when reading its configuration, so we mirror that in our SSH handling.  By using runcmd, you'd be circumventing our SSH handling entirely (because it doesn't do what you want) and so you'd need to handle it yourself.
[20:06] <xscori> well, that would explain the reason it did not work :)
[20:07] <Odd_Bloke> (That said, I'm looking into why you might have seen this regress.)
[20:07] <xscori> oh, thank you very much!
[20:08] <meena> wait, this used to work???
[20:09] <xscori> yes
[20:10] <xscori> we have production systems running with 18.5 and it inserts the ssh keys correctly into the file specified in sshd-config > authorizedkeysfile
[20:11] <meena> which users? how??
[20:12] <xscori> I mean, we launch an ec2, say create a new key-pair and attach it to instance, then we ssh into the instance, and when we check the ssh keys, we see them not under /home/ec-user but under /etc/ssh/auth_keys/ec2-user
[20:12] <Odd_Bloke> We've definitely had some changes in this area since 18.5.
[20:12] <xscori> default user for rhel is, clouduser, I think but we switch that to be 'ec2-user'
[20:13] <Odd_Bloke> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/f1094b1a539044c0193165a41501480de0f8df14 was between 18.5 and 19.4, so is the most likely culprit.
[20:13] <xscori> yeah, I looked, alot of changes actually...and unfortunately could not figure out what broke
[20:13] <xscori> yes, I saw that
[20:14] <xscori> I did a diff on that commit...and got lost :)
[20:14] <Odd_Bloke> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/b0e73814db4027dba0b7dc0282e295b7f653325c landed in 20.4 and was intended to handle a bug in that previous one (perhaps this bug?) but was implemented in a way that opened up a vulnerability, so was reverted in 20.4.1.
[20:15] <xscori> I am not sure, I cloned the repo and looked at the ssh related changes since 18.5 in git history and change logs, I just could not understand the logic of the code to follow up
[20:15] <Odd_Bloke> The one thought I have, though, is that IIRC otubo brought these upstream from the Red Hat packaging, so it's possible that the Red Hat packages you're using have these changes even if they weren't upstream for that version.
[20:17] <xscori> idk... I thought about filing a case with rhel, but thought they might simply point me back to cloud-init devs, so started there instead
[20:17] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, not trying to palm you back off on them (yet ;), just thinking aloud.
[20:17] <xscori> we have enterprise support with them, so I can definitely open a case with them if it is something they did
[20:18] <xscori> sure, I appreciate your time
[20:18] <Odd_Bloke> So I think the problem is probably https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/f1094b1a539044c0193165a41501480de0f8df14#diff-8978d79f04e525de3011b92f7b141a7bd6dae4b6d0a70f9b9ea923bbd1451a43L239
[20:19] <Odd_Bloke> That went from returning `auth_key_fn` to returning `default_authorizedkeys_file`.
[20:19] <xscori> yes, and I manually tried to simulate the situation
[20:19] <Odd_Bloke> Which is consistent with what you've described, I think.
[20:20] <xscori> for example 'extract_authorized_keys' func returned ['/home/ec2-user/.ssh/auh_keys', {}] when I provided the second param to it '/etc/ssh/sshd_config', which is a CONSTANT anyway
[20:20] <xscori> I did not expect that
[20:20] <Odd_Bloke> And, indeed, the (since-reverted) fix moved that to returning `auth_key_fns[0]`.
[20:20] <xscori> but I also did not know what the return values should be
[20:21] <xscori> that second {}, I though, should be /etc/ssh/auth_keys/ec2-user to match the experience we have with 18.5
[20:21] <xscori> thought*
[20:22] <Odd_Bloke> It should return ("/path/to/store/the/keys/in", ["list", "of", "the", "keys", "to write there", "which will look more like", "ssh-rsa AAAAAAAAA....etc"])
[20:22] <xscori> again, I did not understand the whole logic, so... was not sure what I was seeing is unexpected
[20:22] <xscori> oh
[20:22] <xscori> in that case, it is definitely returning the wrong thing
[20:23] <xscori> it is reading sshd_config, so not sure why it does not use it once it sees the authorizedkeysfile specified
[20:23] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, that's the bug, from the line I linked to.
[20:24] <Odd_Bloke> It unconditionally returns `default_authorizedkeys_file` which is `default_authorizedkeys_file = os.path.join(ssh_dir, 'authorized_keys')` (and ssh_dir is `os.path.join(pw_ent.pw_dir, '.ssh')`).
[20:25] <Odd_Bloke> And so it disregards the setting, hence the regression.
[20:26] <xscori> I see
[20:29] <xscori> oops did not notice channel kicked me out
[20:30] <Odd_Bloke> No worries, you didn't miss anything.
[20:30] <xscori> :)  ok
[20:31] <xscori> so, this is not a rhel issue and needs to be fixed in the source....hmm, even if it is fixed, then it will need to make its way to rhel, to an rpm etc.:(  oh boy....
[20:32] <xscori> Odd_Bloke does any workaround pop into your mind?
[20:33] <xscori> I guess copying might be one, or convincing our cyber to temporarily allow ssh keys in /home/{user}/.ssh
[20:33] <xscori> none too pretty
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> xscori: Unfortunately, you're correct.  Your best bet is likely to iterate over users (in a runcmd) and move the keys, as you suggest.
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> Apologies that we don't have a better answer. :/
[20:35] <xscori> ok, I guess I need to learn about runcmd and figure out how to do that
[20:36] <xscori> it is what it is. cloud-init is awesome, and bugs are fact of life, I mean code :)
[20:36] <Odd_Bloke> :)
[20:40] <xscori> ok, thinking about this a bit... I read somewhere in documentation, I guess, that ssh is run in boot stage before sshd_config is read and sshd service is run
[20:40] <xscori> is that b/c keys have to be in place before the service starts or is it ok to insert the keys at any point? b/c runcmd is running at a later stage, right?
[20:41] <xscori> again thinking loud, if that's true, copying the keys alone won't do it, I will have to recycle the service as well?
[21:07] <Odd_Bloke> xscori: IIRC, you need to have _host_ keys in place before SSH starts.  I think it's just an implementation detail that we write authorized keys at the same time: it's certainly the case that sshd will pick up new authorized keys without a restart.
[21:08] <Odd_Bloke> I think you would have a window between SSH coming up and keys being installed that isn't present in the default configuration.
[21:10] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I'm planning on landing https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/829 Monday morning so we can kick off an SRU process; LMK if I haven't addressed your concerns sufficiently. :)
[21:41] <xscori> good to know, thank you! @o
[21:42] <xscori> gawd! I meant,  Odd_Bloke
[22:04] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: +1 on landing
[22:57] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Thanks!
[22:57] <Odd_Bloke> Have a good weekend!
[22:58] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: Thanks , you as well
[23:19] <beantaxi> Do folks here tend to stick to US business hours?
[23:22] <rharper> beantaxi: I think there may be some Euro timezone but mostly US
[23:22] <rharper> if you leave your client up, it's worth just asking any time, we'll usually reply when we can
[23:28] <beantaxi> Thanks! I think in the past I've thought weekends were a good time to eg get a PR done and dusted, but it looks like business hours actually works better
[23:29] <beantaxi> So does that imply folks work on cloud-init fulltime? Or just that they tend to do it while at work
[23:31] <rharper> there's a cloud-init team at Canonical, and many cloud partners also have folks who work cloud-init upstream;  and community folks maintaining distros or OS specific sections
[23:32] <beantaxi> That makes sense
[23:44] <beantaxi> How frowned upon is it to say "hey can you look at my PR?" Speaking purely from antsiness rather than urgency
[23:45] <beantaxi> The Real Falcon was good enough to give it quite a bit of attention today, and I'm afraid I've got my very last change in just after he's taken off. There's no harm it all in it waiting till Monday if that's how it is.
[23:45] <beantaxi> But life's too short to never be annoying.
[23:48] <falcojr> beantaxi: yeah, I probably won't get to it again until Monday
[23:49] <falcojr> You can feel free to ask for a review anytime here, but sometimes it takes us a while to get around to it just because of other competing priorities
[23:55] <beantaxi> falcojr: That makes sense. It's literally my first contribution to anything this size, and my excitement for it is truly laughable.
[23:55] <rharper> beantaxi: IMO, it's always OK to ping for reviews on your PR (either on the PR itself or here in irc)


[05:01] <tntc> I know the performance is degraded during the DB fix (according to the status site), but how degraded are we talking? What's normal for ubuntuone uploads?
[05:01] <fagan> tntc: there isnt really a metric on it really it depends on peak times and all that
[05:01] <fagan> tntc: but it is slower than usual
[05:03] <tntc> Well, my plan is to sync about 35gb of music. I'm essentially wondering how long it's gonna take when the performance problem is fixed :)
[05:03]  * fagan just woke up and saw the question which was good timing
[05:03] <tntc> ah, you must be in the UK :)
[05:03] <fagan> tntc: well im not going to get your hopes up it would take a good while
[05:03] <fagan> tntc: im in Ireland
[05:04] <tntc> oh, I expect it to take a while. I'm just wondering if the scale should be days or weeks.
[05:04] <fagan> tntc: the best thing to do is just try it and leave it to upload and it will speed up when we fix the problem probably
[05:05] <fagan> tntc: but definitely days maybe longer if its 35gb
[05:05] <tntc> ok, that's good to know. I have 3 x 20gb storage packs, plus the mobile bit so I can stream music.
[05:06] <fagan> tntc: yeah its really handy when you get it all uploaded I have it working on my phone too
[05:06] <tntc> fagan: which phone?
[05:07] <fagan> tntc: its a samsung something or other I cant remember the model
[05:07] <tntc> Android?
[05:07] <fagan> yep
[05:08] <tntc> fagan: nice. I've been loving my Droid 2. Worked great while I was in France.
[05:08] <fagan> tntc: nice, sorry about the speed problems but we are working on it
[05:09] <fagan> tntc: oh and if you upload your fav songs first you can start using it right away
[05:09] <fagan> shouldnt take that long for just a few
[05:09] <tntc> oh good!
[05:09] <tntc> It'll work on cellular connection or wifi, right?
[05:09] <fagan> tntc: yep
[05:09] <tntc> (as in, either one)
[05:10] <fagan> it defaults to the wifi if your connected
[05:10] <tntc> excellent!
[05:11] <fagan> good good anyway
[05:12] <tntc> fagan: just noticed something: I'm not sure how many songs have made it up to the cloud, but I have one folder, unknown artist. When I tap on it, I get Error: unable to parse 'None' as integer
[05:12] <fagan> tntc: well they may not be uploaded yet
[05:13]  * fagan thinks he remembers a bug like that in the list :/
[05:13] <tntc> oh, yeah I figured they're not. I'm guessing the error is just because the folder is empty or something.
[05:14] <fagan> tntc: yeah it is
[05:15] <tntc> I'll hunt for the bug report. Are the mobile ubuntuone clients open source?
[05:15] <fagan> but it shouldnt be doing that error and that is a bug, id say just wait and it will work itself out
[05:15] <fagan> no no ill go look for the bug :)
[05:15] <fagan> you just have fun and we will take it from here
[05:16] <fagan> tntc: so anyway just wait it out and it will get a bit better soon
[05:16] <fagan> other than that you should be good
[05:16] <tntc> oh, ok :) Thanks!
[05:17] <fagan> np
[08:03] <fagan> morning
[11:39] <shane4kubuntu> ok, what are the special loops I have to jump through to get u1 working on kubuntu?
[11:42] <shane4kubuntu> I looked on the web page, but wasn't able to find  anything
[16:04] <karni> fagan: yo, you know if the uds wrap up is streamed somewhere?
[16:04] <karni> fagan: ballroom.ogg is streaming music
[16:06] <fagan> karni: wasnt listening myself
[16:06] <karni> kk
[16:06] <fagan> karni: I presume its the ballroom but they forgot to turn it on
[16:07] <karni> fagan: possibly :/
[16:07] <beuno> it hasn't started yet
[16:09] <fagan> beuno: ah then ill listen in too
[16:09] <aquariuso> cparrino ping
[16:10] <beuno> now its starting
[16:11] <karni> fagan: stream is on
[16:11] <fagan> nice im all over it :D
[16:13] <karni> fagan: xD
[16:14]  * fagan wants some amazon right now
[16:14] <fagan> :D
[16:14] <karni> hehe he's fun
[16:16] <fagan> yay rick
[16:17] <mainerror> hey all :)
[16:17] <fagan> mainerror: hey
[16:17]  * mainerror is back from the UDS
[16:25] <fagan> what linus is there
[16:25]  * fagan is jelly
[16:33] <karni> hahah :)
[16:33] <karni> fagan: and the music is back ;d
[16:43] <fagan> karni: that was a short round up they must really want some beer
[16:43] <karni> fagan: true hehe
[16:43] <fagan> obviously mandel is all over that one LD
[16:43] <fagan> :D
[16:45] <duanedesign> import localtime
[16:46] <duanedesign> time = local time
[16:47] <duanedesign> print 'good'  local timr
[16:48] <duanedesign> s/local time/local_time
[18:05] <karni> duanedesign: good evening :)
[18:11] <blajk> beuno: ping
[18:15] <fagan> duanedesign: that code would print out the time so it would be good 18:15 :D
[18:17] <fagan> so you should add if time > 12 and time < 3 the_time = "afternoon" elif time > 3 the_time = "evening" else the_time = "morning"
[18:17] <fagan> something like that
[18:17] <fagan> but thats just playing about I could have done better with it
[18:17] <fagan> :d
[19:35] <karni> fagan: he could also write: print getGreeting(time())
[19:35] <karni> ;)
[19:36] <karni> fagan: I just read that as a pseudo code :)
[19:41] <fagan> karni: I didnt know you could do that
[19:41] <karni> fagan: you have weak imagination :D!
[19:42] <fagan> hah


[04:57] <cpaelzer> good morning
[06:12] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:55] <zzarr> Hello!
[07:55] <zzarr> Is it possible to cluster 2 or more nodes (computers) as a SSI (Single System Image)?
[07:56] <tomreyn> zzarr: this lists multiple Linux based solutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_system_image#Examples but most of them seem to not have received updates in a while.
[07:57] <zzarr> the only relevant info I find is http://www.popcornlinux.org/
[08:00] <tomreyn> reading the wikipedia article which states "The interest in SSI clusters is based on the perception that they may be simpler to use and administer than more specialized clusters. Different SSI systems may provide a more or less complete illusion of a single system." makes me suspect that maybe there are now fewer people interested in creating this illusion than there used to be in the past.
[08:01] <tomreyn> (at least in linux lands)
[08:01] <tomreyn> have you considered other HA models?
[08:02] <tomreyn> zzarr: ^
[08:02] <zzarr> I just wanted to build a cluster as an experiment for own use
[08:03] <zzarr> I was thinking about buying 2 https://www.pine64.org/?product=rockpro64-4gb-single-board-computer
[08:03] <zzarr> and cluster them
[08:04] <tomreyn> what would this cluster then do?
[08:06] <zzarr> while the CPU's on the boards are strong but nothing special, they have something called a NPU (neural network processor) which would be nice to have 2 of so to speak
[08:06] <zzarr> other whys it's just to learn and have fun :)
[08:07] <tomreyn> my (surely subjective) perception is that in the end you always want to create / provide a highly available application / service. so, for example, you want a HA web or database server. to do this, you don't need classic server clustering, but just service / application level clustering, and this can actually make more sense.
[08:08] <zzarr> nice idea
[08:10] <tomreyn> regarding the NPU i'd assume something similar to distcc to exist, i.e. a small service layer running on all nodes which then allows you to address an abstraction of these as a single entity.
[08:10] <zzarr> I think so
[08:14] <tomreyn> i can't seem to find much on clustering NPUs, maybe the concept is not applicable to this kind of processor, or it has just not yet been done (or not in open source software)
[08:14] <zzarr> do you know if it is possible to make 2 kernels communicate over PCIe?
[08:15] <zzarr> well, I could write my own software once I know how to use the NPU
[08:15]  * tomreyn does not know
[08:16] <tomreyn> i assume you're loking for a fast link and DMA
[08:16] <zzarr> what is DMA?
[08:16] <tomreyn> direct memory access
[08:16] <zzarr> sure, a fast link yes
[08:17] <zzarr> that is correct
[08:17] <tomreyn> an external process writing to memory normally controlled by the kernel
[08:18] <tomreyn> you usually dont want DMA because it means abandoning security, but for low latency processes and clustering it can the the only option
[08:18] <zzarr> I see
[08:20] <tomreyn> there are several standard interfaces which can do DMA. i think pci and thunderbolt at least. bluetooth provides a mode which allows for it.
[08:20] <tomreyn> maybe that's also a ##hardware and ##linux question
[08:21] <zzarr> I was thinking of buying some FPGA as a switch between the two boards (and possibly expandable), but the frequency if PCIe is 8GHz
[08:21] <zzarr> so it might not be possible
[08:22] <zzarr> I'll ask in those channels
[08:23] <zzarr> but it might be possible to just hook PCIe -> PCIe (Tx -> Rx)
[08:23] <cpaelzer> rbasak: you should be the first to be around, would you have some time for https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+git/qemu/+merge/354695 as the automated tests will conclude in a few hours and I'd want to be ready then
[08:25] <tomreyn> zzarr: https://serverfault.com/questions/336649/pci-e-connection-between-two-servers  - infiniband actually can do RDMA (remote direct memory access), too, IIRC
[08:40] <zzarr> cool, I'll have a look
[08:44] <zzarr> very interesting, thanks tomreyn
[08:45] <tomreyn> you're welcome, but i'm really not knowledgable in this area, it'd be better to talk to someone who is.
[09:46] <cpaelzer> rbasak: thanks for the check I have the edit for the SRU tempalte open already :-)
[09:47] <cpaelzer> askring rharper is a good idea I'll do so privately
[09:47] <cpaelzer> and on the dep3, I'll extend my template to differ between the two
[11:18] <halvors1> Hi! I'm experiencing some network issues with my server, seems to appear when i clone the mac address. (It's only used by the server).
[11:19] <halvors1> The problem is that connections drops once in a while ahen the mac address is cloned, my network contoller is 82566DM-2.
[11:19] <halvors1> Running the e1000e driver.
[11:20] <halvors1> I'm cloning the mac address in systemd-networkd, should this be done in udev? How to do that in 18.04?
[11:36] <rbasak> smoser: could you add SRU information to bug 1781039 please?
[11:36] <rbasak> smoser: in particular Regression Potential. Looks like the entire cloudinit/sources/DataSourceGCE.py file has been rewritten or wholesale backported?
[11:56] <blackflow> halvors1: "cloning"?  you mean spoofing? cloning would imply multiple NICs with teh same MAC, which would explain issues.
[12:40] <Chainsaw> Hello. Attempting to install Ubuntu Server Lts 18.04.1 in a multipath FibreChannel environment using LPFC (Emulex) adapters. I am unable to enable any sort of multipath support, as the documentation seems outdated (for 16.04, which has a different kernel command line on the install media).
[12:41] <Chainsaw> Trying an LVM2 installation without any multipath, thinking it could be enabled later, results in duplicate LVM2 PV ID reports and a failed boot. Any attempt to install to the same disk(s) also fails, as it cannot umount/disengage from the flawed LVM2 configuration that results.
[12:41] <Chainsaw> Thoughts?
[12:43] <Chainsaw> I mean besides using a rescue CD to dd /dev/zero to the disk to try again, which is what I'm doing.
[12:51] <stukdev> Hi, i've setup a samba share, everytimes i create a new directory the default permission are drwxr-sr-x , how can i force to disable the 's' permission in samba conf?
[12:51] <halvors1> blackflow: Yeah mean spoofing, the reason is that only a specifid mac is allowed by the upstream switch.
[12:53] <rbasak> stukdev: see "inherit permissions", "force directory mode" and "directory mask".
[12:54] <stukdev> rbasak: i just set the force directory mode 0775 but don't work
[12:54] <rbasak> stukdev: do you have "inherit permissions" set?
[12:55] <smoser> rbasak: i'll ask shaner to do that. sorry for not having asked that before uploading. this was me just sponsoring someone elses review.
[12:55] <smoser> err... work.
[12:55] <stukdev> rbasak: this is what i'm seraching, becouse in webmin i don't find it..
[12:55] <jelly> Chainsaw: are you trying to put root fs and boot from mpth?
[12:55] <jelly> mpath*
[13:02] <stukdev> rbasak: ok, i setup inherit permission = yes, force directory mode = 0775, directory mask = 0755, but new fdirecoty always create 's' permission
[13:03] <rbasak> stukdev: have you actually read the definition of "inherit permission"? I didn't suggest that you set it to "yes".
[13:05] <stukdev> rbasak: yes, but using no, its the same, so i try using yes
[13:05] <rbasak> I'm not sure then, sorry.
[13:30] <Chainsaw> jelly: Correct.
[13:30] <Chainsaw> jelly: These are boot-from-SAN systems with no local storage of any kind. (HP ProLiant BL460c Gen 8 on a 3PAR 8440)
[13:54] <DammitJim> how do I google for a reason why a log.jcifs* get created in /var/log/samba ?
[13:59] <sdeziel> DammitJim: samba creates logs in there with the client machine suffix
[14:00] <DammitJim> thanks sdeziel
[14:00] <DammitJim> weird! but these files are empty!
[14:01] <sdeziel> DammitJim: yeah, some of mine are empty as well.
[14:01] <DammitJim> searching for: samba log.jcifs* access denied doesn't turn up anything on google
[14:01] <DammitJim> that's why I was trying to get some ideas on what to search for
[14:02] <sdeziel> DammitJim: jcifs is probably the name of the client machine so I'd remove this part from the google search as it's really specific to your environment
[14:03] <DammitJim> it says: log.jcifs255_105_ac
[14:03] <DammitJim> I'm verifying 255.105 are the last 2 octects of the IP of the client machine
[14:05] <ahasenack> let's say I removed a file that belongs to a package, how can I get it back? apt install --reinstall <pkg> doesn't work, it doesn't restore the file
[14:25] <DammitJim> how did you remove the file?
[14:25] <ahasenack> it wasn't me, someone made a mistake, I don't know the details
[14:25] <ahasenack> bug report
[14:25] <ahasenack> it's easier to just restore it instead of investigating how he managed to remove the file
[14:26] <DammitJim> what's the name of the file?
[14:26] <ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/1791403
[14:26] <ahasenack>  /etc/postfix/postfix-files
[14:26] <ahasenack> I told him to extract the file from the package manually
[14:27] <ahasenack> maybe because it's in /etc --reinstall didn't work as expected
[14:27] <ahasenack> i.e., a config file
[14:34] <ahasenack> kstenerud: to which ppa did you say you pushed a new postfix upload?
[14:35] <ahasenack> the mp description now only lists https://launchpad.net/~kstenerud/+archive/ubuntu/cosmic-postfix-mysql-config-1791139
[14:35] <ahasenack> and that one isn't using the ~ppaN suffix
[14:36] <ahasenack> I *think* you can delete the packages in there and upload new ones using -1ubuntu2~ppa1, but the ppa might reject it as being lower, even after the deletion
[14:36] <ahasenack> I've had conflicting experiences with that. My mantra is "PPAs remember"
[14:38] <Ussat> OK, this is totally off topoic, but to lighten things up a bit. Today
[14:38] <Ussat> OK folks, today is a HISTORIC day, today in history:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcJAWKdawuM
[14:42] <kstenerud> ahasenack: OK I'll push a ppa version
[14:47] <kstenerud> ahasenack: How do I delete the bad upload to the PPA and replace it with a new one?
[14:48] <ahasenack> kstenerud: view package details -> then you should see a delete option in the top right next to a copy packages one
[14:49] <kstenerud> hmm it still won't let me upload
[14:49] <kstenerud> Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net
[14:49] <kstenerud> Nothing more to do for ../postfix_3.3.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1_source.changes
[14:50] <ahasenack> that's from dput
[14:50] <ahasenack> not a server response, right?
[14:50] <ahasenack> everytime dput uploads a package, it creates a *.upload(ed?) file, and that is what it looks for
[14:50] <ahasenack> you can dput -f
[14:51] <ahasenack> or remove that upload file
[14:51] <kstenerud> ah ok
[14:51] <ahasenack> you can tell by how quickly dput complained that it wasn't a server response :)
[14:51] <ahasenack> afaik beside this particular condition, dput always succeeds
[14:52] <ahasenack> it's async. If it actually worked or not, an email will tell you
[14:53] <Chainsaw> jelly: You've successfully understood the question. Are you able to help please?
[15:02] <mustmodify> My ubuntu instance on EC2 suddenly became unresponsive. I tried to restart it from the EC2 console. For 10 minutes, nothing happened. I then tried to stop it and EC2 offered to "force-kill" it. That took another 10 or so minutes. What logs can I check or other tests can I perform to see what caused it to go down and then to be so hard to restart?
[15:02] <ahasenack> I would try to check it's console
[15:03] <ahasenack> also, if its root is an ebs volume, maybe mount it from another working instance to inspect it
[16:09] <mason> I'm curious - in RHEL/CentOS, "systemctl restart cryptsetup.target" will reparse /etc/crypttab and make additional volumes available. This appears not to be the case in Ubuntu 18.04. Is there a preferred way to reparse crypttab in Ubuntu, without a reboot or manual set-up?
[16:19] <mason> Ah, EL didn't want systemctl daemon-reload first, but Ubuntu does, after which restarting cryptsetup.target works.
[16:34] <blackflow> mason: you don't need daemon-reload for changes in crypptab as that's not systemd file. I guess you're seeing the generator being retriggered with daemon reload
[16:34] <blackflow> (as cryptsetup is handled by a generator)
[16:35] <blackflow> uhh... crypttab.
[16:35] <mason> blackflow: That sounds right, yeah.
[16:35] <mason> The odd difference is that evidently EL runs the generator without daemon-reload
[16:39] <blackflow> afaik RH does some changes to their systemd that's not upstreamed, like that 0day issue, RH specifically allows usernames starting with a number. that's something I remembered.    yeah, that's my pet peeve with it.... so much for one, standardized interface across all distros.
[16:42] <mason> My pet peeve is largely "here's an ever-growing project that stifles opportunities for people to invent novel standards-based components to drop into a modular system".
[16:45] <blackflow> stifles how?
[16:52] <kstenerud> is /var/log/daemon.log gone from ubuntu?
[16:56] <blackflow> kstenerud: iirc that was defined through rsyslog, so yes. you can always define it yourself.
[17:10] <mason> blackflow: rsyslog is still there by default
[17:11] <mason> blackflow: My 'Net cut out due to maintenance, but in short, systemd disincentivizes new development in the spaces it occupies, since it's got fairly complex interdependencies on its components.
[17:12] <mason> The previous model was far more modular, with standards-based modules being drop-in-compatible with each other.
[17:13] <blackflow> the previous model was a shell script :)
[17:15] <mason> No, think of rsyslog, MTAs, MDAs, all sorts of server software, DNS, etc.
[17:15] <mason> In short, everything we do that defines the field.
[17:39] <kstenerud> ahasenack: I think logwatch needs a bit of an overhaul. It's referring to a bunch of logfiles that haven't been present since precise
[17:39] <nacc> kstenerud: upstream or in our package?
[17:40] <nacc> note that if it's upstream, that's because it is meant to be installable everywhere, even on ancient systems probably. General OSS cruft :)
[17:40] <kstenerud> I'd have to check upstream. Not sure of debian has things in dist.conf or not
[17:40] <kstenerud> The basic idea is to leave default.conf alone, and for distributions to add config files to dist.conf, and users to modify /etc/logwatch.d
[17:41] <kstenerud> but ubuntu dist.conf is pointing to old things that are no longer true
[17:41] <nacc> kstenerud: ah i see
[17:41] <nacc> kstenerud: yeah, it probably needs love :)
[17:41] <kstenerud> which is the root cause of most of the logwatch bugs in lp
[17:42] <kstenerud> In particular, we have no daemon.log or messages in /var/log
[17:42] <nacc> kstenerud: to old things? i thought most of the bugs we were getting were missing new things :)
[17:42] <kstenerud> Some are from getting new unexpected log entries, and others are from things that stopped working in 14.04
[17:43] <kstenerud> I think it coincided with the move to rsyslogd
[17:43] <nacc> ah could be
[17:44] <kstenerud> rsyslogd has a very restricted set of logfiles (auth.log, kern.log, mail.log, and syslog)
[17:44] <kstenerud> * in ubuntu config
[17:45] <nacc> ah that makes sense
[17:45] <nacc> yeah, by default
[17:45] <kstenerud> logwatch, on the other hand, is still looking for daemon.log and messages, which aren't configured in rsyslogd
[17:46] <nacc> right
[17:48] <kstenerud> So I think I can fix this in dist.conf. The only thing is that once I point things to where they're supposed to go, logwatch is going to choke on a lot of the new messages it hasn't been updated to handle (I did some preliminary tests and got quite a few unexpected message warnings)
[17:49] <nacc> kstenerud: yeah, it probably needs two sets of updates
[17:49] <kstenerud> But at least it will be processing what it's supposed to be processing
[17:49] <nacc> kstenerud: that ends up being the hard decision -- how much should we be fixing, vs. upstream should be fixing
[17:49] <kstenerud> Well, unless dist.conf is being driven by debian, it's our problem. The unexpected messages will be something that should be fixed upstream ideally
[17:51] <nacc> kstenerud: right, that's what i meant --  you're right to fix dist.conf for our distro configuration; but the unexpected messages should be fixed upstream, if they are new formats, etc.
[17:51] <nacc> kstenerud: iirc, logwatch upstream was pretty responsive
[17:59] <blackflow> mason: I think you're making the common mistake of assuming that systemd the project defines what a distro should or shouldn't include. one can still have _just_ the pid1 and process manager, and use all the other components from before.
[18:00] <blackflow> mason: including crypttab generator which is strictly speaking not needed, but is a good thing to have so it benefits from dependency triggers if systemd knows about it
[18:01]  * mason sips the Kool-Aid.
[18:02] <blackflow> mason: patches welcome ;)
[18:03] <mason> blackflow: I can think of places I'd rather spend time.
[18:04] <mason> Patches would require excessive time and attention in this case.
[18:28] <nacc> sarnold: lovepopsickle in #ubuntu points out no torbrowser-launcher AA profile exists, though it is listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/AppArmorProfiles
[18:28] <nacc> sarnold: could you reply/follow-up? (or i can redirect them to a better channel)
[19:09] <arooni> anyone know how to address this issue of getting php-dev installed on ubuntu 16.04 server?  https://gist.github.com/arooni/f535d32c8fb8c0a74c73e6c4425c44da
[19:19] <nacc> arooni: you are using ondrej's ppa
[19:19] <nacc> arooni: if you want to use it, use it for everythign and seek support there, or just us ubuntu's packages
[19:19] <arooni> i think i must have been ;  https://askubuntu.com/questions/813788/cant-install-libpcre3-dev  i followed that and i think hopefully downgraded to the official repos
[19:20] <nacc> arooni: if you don't intend to use ondrej's ppa, you should ppa-purge it
[19:20] <arooni> nacc: thats a good call;  so is there any advantage to using it at all?
[19:25] <nacc> arooni: ondrej's ppa lets you use non-ubuntu version of php, e.g. 7.1/7.2 on 16.04
[19:31] <arooni> and is that recommended? or not so much
[19:36] <keithzg> I mean, it's recommended if necessary ;) That is to say, one might need PHP 7.1 or higher and also have to be running 16.04. But with 7.2 officially in the 18.04 repos, the use-case is currently not high. As the LTS goes on that will probably change. But if you don't expressly need a version of PHP other than the one in main, it's better to stick with the officially-packaged version.
[19:39] <arooni> thanks for that explanation
[19:39] <arooni> i remember seeing perf benefits to php 7.1 and 7.2 over 7
[19:39] <arooni> but i also think i remember that 7 is a big step up from 5.x
[19:40] <keithzg> Yeah and there were some missing features in 7.0 that were in 5.x, that were re-added finally with 7.1 (which is why I'm still using ondrej's PPA on the Phabricator server at work, which I haven't yet updated to 18.04).
[19:41] <arooni> what are you missing in 7.0 that you have in 7.1?
[19:41] <arooni> br
[19:42] <keithzg> arooni: Not 100% sure, just stuff Phabricator needed, heh. Looking at https://secure.phabricator.com/T9640 I guess it was primarily "asynchronous signal handling".
[20:24] <tobias-urdin> coreycb: I updated this bug with some details https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-archive/+bug/1758094
[20:24] <tobias-urdin> we are still hitting this issue in CI https://review.openstack.org/#/c/602059/
[20:25] <tobias-urdin> could you please look at it when you are back
[20:25] <tobias-urdin> jamespage: fyi ^
[20:27] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: looking
[22:07] <arooni> i think my packages are broken;  cant seem to install pmp-memcahced
[22:07] <arooni> https://gist.github.com/arooni/f1efd9f1db704732eea1043187846170
[22:07] <nacc> arooni: i can help you once i'm off the phone
[22:08] <arooni> no rush ; just a noob here trying his best lol ;)
[22:08] <nacc> arooni: your php-common is i think from ondrej still
[22:08] <nacc> arooni: `apt-cache policy php-memcached php-common` ?
[22:08] <arooni> ahh ha; i did run ppa-purge as recommended earlier
[22:08] <arooni> but i think it didnt remove all the old ppa packages
[22:09] <nacc> ok
[22:09] <nacc> it should have
[22:09] <arooni> https://gist.github.com/74d4b80b76cf8df5690710bcf5e34749
[22:13] <nacc> arooni: right, your php-common is still wrong :/
[22:14] <nacc> arooni: you can satisfy it manually with (on the apt-get line php-common=...)
[22:14] <arooni> so do i just need to uninstall it
[22:14] <arooni> what about uninstalling php-common and reinstalling it
[22:14] <arooni> shouldnt it pull from official repos?
[22:14] <nacc> also would owrk
[22:15] <arooni> Reinstallation of php-common is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.
[22:15] <arooni> i really butchered this didnt i
[22:23] <arooni> uninstalled all my php packages  and reinstalled them
[22:23] <arooni> seems to have fixed it
[22:28] <nacc> arooni: :)
[22:30] <arooni> is apxs something that runs only on apache or on nginx too
[22:50] <jamespage> tobias-urdin: update for oslo.utils now in pike-proposed
[22:50] <jamespage> hopefully that will resolve your issue


[07:25] <ducasse> morning all
[07:27] <ObrienDave> *yawn* yes it is ;P
[07:28] <ducasse> am i the only one receiving a *ton* of spam?
[07:32] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I giess .. no spam received on my end :)
[07:32] <Bashing-om> guess*
[07:34] <ducasse> argh. had over 100 queries with bible-spam waiting for me when i logged on, and they're still coming in
[07:35] <Ben64> set +R on yourself
[07:36] <ducasse> aha, thanks.
[07:36] <Ben64> yeah, someones mad
[07:40] <ducasse> how are you today, Bashing-om - been busy?
[07:43] <Bashing-om> ducasse: well .. busy on that one continuing poster with the kernels issues . Finally all squared away !
[07:46] <ducasse> well done! :) i've got a hundred things to do today...
[08:31] <Bashing-om> Job well done - and well deserved rest now - yall take care and we do this again - later
[08:32] <ObrienDave> good job, only you could have pulled that one off ^5
[13:30] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:32] <ducasse> wb BluesKaj
[13:32] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
[13:34] <ducasse> how's life in canada?
[13:35] <ducasse> i'm messing with xbian, a quite fun toy
[13:38] <BluesKaj> doing ok here...had a fun jam yesterday
[13:39] <ducasse> not done much at all this weekend, going xmas shopping in a bit. i'm sure noone else has thought of that today...
[13:42] <BluesKaj> does xbian have a default browser? , I see lot of headless apps
[13:43] <BluesKaj> pretty cool OS tho,. seems quite edgy
[13:43] <ducasse> no idea about browser, it only runs kodi by default
[13:44] <ducasse> i've set up mpd on it in addition, and might move weechat there.
[13:56] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[13:56] <pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
[13:57] <pauljw> everyone
[13:59] <BluesKaj> ducasse, think I might give Xbian a try, looks very interesting
[14:03] <ducasse> BluesKaj: it's nice to have a regular system with apt etc as a base, and so far it seems to work well.
[14:10] <BluesKaj> gonna install it on the rpi3..I'm kind of bored withn the setup I have on it now anyway
[14:15] <BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
[14:15] <EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
[17:14] <EriC^^> j #linux


[15:09] <arraybolt3[m]> EFI installation bug has been fixed upstream. https://github.com/calamares/calamares/pull/1991
[15:14] <arraybolt3[m]> If the daily doesn't auto-build by the time we're all hacking away at it, I vote for an ISO rebuild.
[15:40] <tsimonq2> Good (last) morning from Charlotte
 "EFI installation bug has been..." <- Very nice! Thank you so much for being willing to coordinate this with upstream and make sure the fix is pushed there :)
[15:42] <tsimonq2> I don't want to roll another upstream tar again (at least for the next few days) so if you can figure quilt out I'd be happy to upload your patch :)
[15:42] <tsimonq2> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/08/08/how-to-use-quilt-to-manage-patches-in-debian-packages/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwigzrCW4qr4AhXPIUQIHeNzDjEQFnoECAEQAg&usg=AOvVaw3RJ9J_S04HFapBMnoMz8rs
[15:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Thanks! I'll look at it.
[15:43] <tsimonq2> * https://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/08/08/how-to-use-quilt-to-manage-patches-in-debian-packages/
[15:43] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Thank *you* :)
[16:21] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: this might be helpful too: https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packaging-guide/
[16:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: Thanks, looks important. I currently still need to learn quilt, but hopefully I'll figure it out and have the patches done soon. Is the idea to just turn the latest commits into a patch, and then submit it?
[17:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, guys, how do I find the last commit that's part of the current Calamares package?
 "Dan Simmons: Thanks, looks..." <- There is some important quilt information on the packaging guide. Essentially the patch you create gets added to the debian/patches folder and "quilted" in.
[17:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Or do I just guess and make one patch per commit and then whoever knows the answer can patch in whatever's needed?
[17:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: I see that. I'm getting Quilt set up to work properly according to the packaging guide (with quiltrc and all that).
[17:53] <kc2bez[m]> You can turn the commit into a patch.
[17:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Right but the last build was made on the 10th, I believe, and there's two commits on the 13th.
[17:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh wait, nevermind, I'm looking at one commit and a pull request merge...
[17:54] <kc2bez[m]> Right, so you only need the one commit.
[17:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I see that. Sorry for the confusion, still learning Git...
[17:55] <kc2bez[m]> No worries
[17:58] <tsimonq2> That's why I merge and rebase... I avoid merge commits as much as possible
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I just realized that I probably need the Calamares source package so I can make the patch. How do I obtain that?
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Do I use apt-get source?
[18:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like that's right, I'm gonna try it.
 "OK, I just realized that I..." <- The tl;dr version https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packagingtutorial/
[18:11] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, this is gonna take longer than expected...
[18:14] <kc2bez[m]> Take your time.
[18:16] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I'm to the point where I'm supposed to uncomment deb-src lines, but I'm looking at my sources.list in my Kinetic VM, and some of the deb-src lines are uncommented, and some of them are commented, which is making me worried. I think I enabled deb-src before, should I uncomment everything anyway?
[18:17]  * tsimonq2 CLT ✈ MSP ✈ GRB later
[18:17] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I just straight erase the entire file and add my own so I don't have to edit a bunch of lines
[18:17] <tsimonq2> You can put all four components on one line and it'll still work
[18:18] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, sounds fun.
[18:20] <arraybolt3[m]> I know I need kinetic, but what about kinetic-updates, kinetic-security, and kinetic-backports? Do I put all those in, too?
[18:20] <tsimonq2> From b_dmurray in -release:
[18:20] <tsimonq2> Simon Quigley: I've set the number of rebuilds a product owner can request per day to 6 in the ISO tracker.
[18:20] <kc2bez[m]> tsimonq2: oh nice.
[18:20] <arraybolt3[m]> ack
[18:20] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I would.
[18:21] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Is that a nice way of saying "you're rebuilding too many times"? Or did we just get more rebuilds allowed per day?
[18:22] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Simon asked for it to be bumped, it was 3 per day previously.
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, OK. I thought we got in trouble for respinning an ISO every thirty minutes... (ok not that often but still)
[18:23] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, wrote my own sources.list from scratch, looks like apt hasn't lost its mind yet! 😃
[18:24] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I asked Steve L before we did it
[18:24] <tsimonq2> He basically said "I doubt you're going to run out of space"
[18:24] <tsimonq2> He didn't know about or have access to change that quota
[18:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (I think it's funny that I'm like, "Oh no, the config file doesn't look right, what do I do? How do I fix it?!!", and the answer is, "Oh, just nuke it and write your own." My initial response was "OK, that's worse", but now that it's working, I'm like, "Hey, this is cool!")
 only part about github I really like is the contributions graph
[18:33] <kc2bez[m]> Lynorian's graph likely lights up the room. :D
 "(I think it's funny that I'm..." <- Here is the script that initially creates the sources.list https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qt-code/+git/calamares-settings-ubuntu/tree/common/modules/automirror/main.py?h=ubuntu/kinetic
[18:35] <kc2bez[m]> Looking at that reminds me we need to edit it. The Partner repository is no longer.
[18:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Wow, my Internet is good, but it's time zone info is SO BAD. One day it thinks I'm in Denver, the next day I'm clear over in New York, and every once in a while it puts me in Chicago, the time zone I'm actually in.
[18:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Today I'm in New York after about a week in Denver. And I never left my house in Missouri. What is WRONG with this thing?!
[18:41] <kc2bez[m]> Geoip isn't the most reliable.
[18:41] <arraybolt3[m]> It's not GeoIP's fault, even my Chromebook thinks I'm zipping around the country, and I think a Windows laptop is doing the same thing, too.
[18:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Anyway, not on topic, just annoying.
[19:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Quick question, is Falkon suitable for use with all our websites for developer stuff? I'm spinning up a whole new development VM and I just chucked Firefox and installed Falkon so I can test it.
[19:13] <kc2bez[m]> It seems to work fine for most things.
[19:24] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, bit of a problem. I'm following the packaging requirements setup guide, and everything was going just fine until "arc set-config phabricator.uri "https://phab.lubuntu.me". Arcanist proceeded to throw a temper tantrum with a PHP fatal error.
[19:25] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I don't see any personal data in the error, so I'm gonna pastebin it.
[19:27] <arraybolt3[m]> https://pastebin.com/QsWgiQY0
[19:28] <kc2bez[m]> Don't worry about setting up the phab or arc stuff
[19:29] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[19:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Should I also skip the gpg, bzr, and ssh agent with keychain steps?
[19:31] <kc2bez[m]> You should be good there too
[19:32] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. (I saw the warnings in the TL;DR you sent me, and was like, "OK, make sure everything works right, I'mma follow **all** the steps. LOL, guess that was overkill)
[19:32] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah we need to revise the docs when we get on a new platform.
[19:33] <kc2bez[m]> You will need gpg when you get upload rights.
[19:34] <kc2bez[m]> bzr is rarely used these days, most everything has migrated to git.
[19:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks for all your help! I hope I'm not bugging you too much, but I'm a bit confused here. The packaging tutorial has me getting the source code from Phab. There's no Calamares repository in Phab that I can see, but there is a Calamares packaging repository. So I have the Calamares packaging repo. the Calamares GitHub repo, and the Calamares source from apt-get source. I dunno what I do at this point. Do I clone from just the
[19:40] <arraybolt3[m]> right commit from Calamares GitHub, combine in the Calamares packaging, and then work from there? Or do I get everything from apt-get and work from there? Or...?
[19:41] <arraybolt3[m]> s/clone/checkout (I think)
[20:03] <kc2bez[m]> No worries, sorry for my delayed replies in between tasks. It sounds like you are on the right track. Just substitute anything you see for phab with Github.
[20:04] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. But, don't I need a Calamares source code repo that includes debian/patches in it already, so I can add another patch?
[20:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (It seems like I'm probably supposed to apt-get source the existing Calamares package in Kinetic, then use the data from GitHub to generate the patch with quilt.)
[20:06] <kc2bez[m]> Nope, don't need apt here.
[20:06] <kc2bez[m]> The packaging repo should have a debian directory where the patches are.
[20:07] <kc2bez[m]> uscan downloads the source tar from upstream.
[20:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK. And that will work even though the tip of the Calamares branch contains the commit I want to turn into a patch? I figured I'd need the code from just before the patch, then I can use quilt to prepare for the patch, then change the file, create the patch, and submit it.
[20:08] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess I just git clone, git checkout, copy in the packaging files, then use quilt.)
[20:16] <kc2bez[m]> Really rough order -> fork on github, git clone, git checkout ubuntu/kinetic, uscan, tar extract, quilt new, quilt edit, quilt refresh, quilt header, dch -i, debuild, rm source files, git push, do PR
[20:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. That should be enough for me to figure it out! Worst case scenario, someone will look at my work before blindly merging it and will be able to tell if I botched something. Thank you!
[20:18] <kc2bez[m]> The tl;dr guide is slightly more verbose ^
[20:19] <kc2bez[m]> Don't be afraid if you have quilt woes, it can be fun.
[20:21] <kc2bez[m]> Almost forgot about this page, it could be useful too: https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packaging-example/
[20:38] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, quick question. I'm doing the git diff part of patch making, and I decided to look at what it was outputting before making the patch file. To my surprise, the patch makes it look like it's going to do the exact opposite of what the commit did (delete all the lines that were added, add the lines that were deleted). The packaging example has me doing "git diff <commit> <commit>^". When I change that to "git diff <commit>^
" everything looks right. Is the backwards-looking patch really correct? Or am I right that I need to tweak the command?
[20:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: Word of advice on GPG keys, guard it like it's your social security card.
[20:38] <tsimonq2> Assuming we meet at some point, I will be happy to sign your key. I'd need to see some ID that matches your GPG key but I can then officially recognize that you're who you say you are
[20:40] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: The example might be backwards so you are probably on the right track.
[20:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Yeah, encryption keys are very important things to keep safe. I have an assortment of strong passwords I keep in memory, and I use Chrome's password manager for everything else, but I should come up with a dedicated password for just the GPG key (and maybe use it for SSH too?).
[20:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: By form of ID, I assume the corresponding secret key will do?
[20:41] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah good passwords are important.
[20:42] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Like a drivers license or passport. That kind of ID.
[20:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, OK. I figured those aren't linked to a GPG key at all, but OK.
[20:43] <tsimonq2> Some Debian Developers require two. I only require two if you don't have clout within the community
[20:43] <tsimonq2> (Two forms of ID)
[20:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess having that, and a GPG secret key.)
[20:44] <tsimonq2> Also, fun fact, Simon is my middle name. It says Simon Quigley on my ID but it's partially my full name
[20:44] <tsimonq2> My dad is Tom, I'm Simon, I have an II on the end of my name
[20:44] <tsimonq2> The two DDs I signed with had no problem with that - in fact, it explains my username
[20:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (Why do people name their kids their own name plus a 2? I don't get it.)
[20:45] <tsimonq2> My grandmother believed that she named my dad what she did due to divine intervention. She meant to say a completely different name but Thomas came out
[20:46] <tsimonq2> I plan on naming my firstborn son ...Quigley III fwiw :)
[20:46] <arraybolt3[m]> (Fun fact - cut one of the I's off of III, and you get the same number but in binary.)
[20:47] <tsimonq2> hahahaha :)
[20:47] <tsimonq2> Anyway, what were we talking about?
[20:47] <kc2bez[m]> Quilting
[20:47] <tsimonq2> Oh one more thing I'll mention to Aaron before we move on...
[20:48] <tsimonq2> At Altispeed Technologies I'm required to keep my SSH key on a Yubikey. You can also do that with GPG keys
[20:48] <tsimonq2> So would recommend
[20:48] <tsimonq2> Anyway
[20:48] <tsimonq2> How is quilting?
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: That sounds way more secure than putting it on a flash drive. One small problem I have is that my desktop uses only USB-A ports, but my Chromebook uses only USB-C ports. Do they make Yubikeys that work with both?
[20:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Quilting is REALLY HARD this first time! I've still not even run "quilt" yet, fighting with git and tutorials ATM.
[20:49] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Yes
[20:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I would think so
[20:50] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Have you ever worked with diff and manually applying patches?
[20:50] <arraybolt3[m]> What in the world...? Matrix just decided to tell me something about stickerpacks out of nowhere LOL
[20:50] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Nope. 😱
[20:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I would run through that process once and it'll all kind of click
[20:51] <tsimonq2> So let me give you an example...
[20:52] <tsimonq2> LXQt releases tarballs but applies commits on top. They basically apply patches on top completely managed by version control
[20:52] <tsimonq2> I'll give you an example repo and an example commit
[20:52] <tsimonq2> Try cloning it and manually applying the patch using patch -p1 < PATH
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: I know you said to replace Phab with GitHub, but I still can't figure out where to get the active source code from. I have the upstream code, but I don't know where to get the code that's actively in Lubuntu ATM.
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, tracking.
[20:53] <tsimonq2> So, clone this repo: https://github.com/lxqt/libfm-qt/
[20:53] <tsimonq2> Then run git checkout 1.1.0
[20:53] <tsimonq2> We're going to try with this commit here...
[20:53] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lxqt/libfm-qt/commit/472128c3bfc301f3258bd99501a88ef4097d0429
[20:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Cloning.
[20:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Done.
[20:53] <tsimonq2> So there's two ways you can pull that patch...
[20:54] <tsimonq2> A) you can use git cherry-pick ID to just straight pull that commit
[20:54] <tsimonq2> This time, just add .patch to the end of that commit url
[20:54] <tsimonq2> You should be able to download it
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, wait, git cherry-pick?
[20:54] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: And as long as you checked out the 1.1.0 tag, you should be able to apply it with this command
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I know git clone, git checkout, git reset (sorta), and git push so far. (And git add and git commit.) I dunno what cherry-pick is.
[20:55] <tsimonq2> I know I'm going fast :)
[20:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Do you know what it means to cherry pick something or are you simply asking about command usage?
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know what the cherry pick command does.
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Using the man page...
[20:56] <tsimonq2> Okay, so it pulls a single commit rather than having to merge the entire branch
[20:56] <tsimonq2> You can do that or you can manually download the patch
[20:57] <tsimonq2> Playing with this will make quilt easier to understand though :)
[20:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh OK. I think I understand.
[20:57] <tsimonq2> Cool. Any further questions I'm happy to help :)
[20:57]  * tsimonq2 sometimes goes too fast - if you don't understand a part of it don't hesitate to say so
[20:57] <arraybolt3[m]> So, it grabs just one commit and applies it? Like manually downloading the patch and then shoving it in with diff?
[20:58] <tsimonq2> Exactly :)
[20:58] <tsimonq2> And not shoving it in with diff...
[20:58] <tsimonq2> With patch :)
[20:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, because diff makes the patches, and patch applies them. Got it. (Turns out this is a deep rabbit hole of Linux I never hardly touched before.)
[21:01] <kc2bez[m]> Back to calamares, to get what is currently in Lubuntu git clone the Calamares packaging repo and use uscan to download the current version. That looks at the version in the changelog and downloads the tar based on what is in the debian watch file.
[21:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: OH, I GET IT! Finally uscan makes sense to me! Thank you, that made it click.
[21:03] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah, I glossed over, sorry.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> And you'll know if your watch file is b0rked pretty quickly
[21:04] <tsimonq2> You can throw on verbose mode but I'd argue they're equally as if not more frustrating than symbols
[21:04] <tsimonq2> To write from scratch, that is
[21:05] <tsimonq2> Another cool feature I'll share is upstream signing keys. uscan automatically checks that it has integrity
[21:06] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah, watch files are fun use of special characters
[21:07] <arraybolt3[m]> I can't hardly understand what you guys are saying, but it sounds cool! And scary. And like it could blow up in my face. Hey, I guess that's why we use VMs, right?
[21:07] <kc2bez[m]> Bingo
[21:08]  * tsimonq2 uses sbuild
[21:09] <kc2bez[m]> Me too, we haven't graduated @arraybolt3 to that yet though.
[21:09] <kc2bez[m]> Baby steps ;)
[21:10] <tsimonq2> ^^ :)
[21:10] <tsimonq2> Everyone gets there eventually
 "I know git clone, git checkout..." <- git bisect is the most fun of them all ;)
[21:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, I've tried to do git bisect before, I never managed to get there because of complications before that, but I almost did it!
[21:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, I just signed in on my desktop, is that doing anything weird as far as messages?
[21:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like it's working.
[21:12] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: That's the beauty of Matrix, we can't tell
[21:12] <tsimonq2> I've been messaging you guys half on my laptop half on my phone
[21:12] <arraybolt3[m]> On IRC it makes things go wonky, but it looks OK here.
[21:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. Now I can set my Chromebook to charge and stop having to multitask on multiple systems. 👍
[21:13] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Quassel doesn't mind if you have a core setup.
[21:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Eh, Quassel + Chrome OS = way too much disk space used for my taste.
[21:15] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, so I need to download the patch. What do I do that with? GutHub doesn't seem to have a download button.
[21:15] <arraybolt3[m]> (LOL, GutHub. Accurate.) s/GutHub/GitHub
[21:18] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I did git checkout 1.1.0 and then git cherry-pick <commit>. Was that right?
[21:19] <kc2bez[m]> If you have the web link, paste that into your browser address and add `.patch` to the end and you should be prompted to download. You will probably want to rename it after.
[21:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK. I think I remember that going by in the chat, but I forgot it.
[21:20] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: This should work too.
[21:20] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, it looks right.
[21:20] <kc2bez[m]> Neat
[21:22] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, and I did it with patch! Hey, figuring this out!
[21:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm. The Phab documentation contained dire warnings to use SSH cloning, not HTTP cloning, but I'm trying to do it with SSH and it seems stuck.
[21:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (Cloning the calamares-packaging repo from Phab.)
[21:27] <tsimonq2> quilt is automated patch without Git
[21:27] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Consider Phab deprecated
[21:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Right, but how do I get the calamares-packaging repo?  OK, let's try that then.
[21:28] <tsimonq2> Soon enough when you get commit access you should do it via SSH
[21:28] <tsimonq2> (Ask when you're at 5-10 solid changes)
[21:28] <kc2bez[m]> Fork on github then clone
[21:28] <tsimonq2> Commit access =/ upload access
[21:28] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: That too
[21:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Found it! And I'm forking because I'm going to be uploading a quilt patch, right?
[21:29] <kc2bez[m]> Right, then Simon can merge your changes.
[21:30] <kc2bez[m]> Or I can too I guess. Whoever gets there first.
[21:32] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, cloned it. Thanks for training me on this!
[21:33] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh no. uscan is downloading Calamares 3.2.59.
[21:33] <kc2bez[m]> Absolutely, thanks for working on it.
[21:34] <arraybolt3[m]> I need 3.3.0 but right behind the UEFI-boot fixing commit, right?
[21:37] <arraybolt3[m]> And as expected, quilt failed.
[21:38] <tsimonq2> cat debian/patches/series and show error plz
[21:39] <arraybolt3[m]> The problem is that, in Calamares 3.2.59, there was a piece of code in the bootloader module. It got changed in Calamares 3.3.0, which caused the bug, so now it's been changed back to what it was in Calamares 3.2.59. So applying this patch to Calamares 3.2.59 is bound to fail since the code's already right in Calamares 3.2.59. I need to apply it to Calamares 3.3.0, which uscan didn't download for me.
[21:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I think if I can just get the source code used in the Calamares 3.3.0 package that's in Kinetic (complete with packaging data), I can make this happen.
[21:41] <arraybolt3[m]> debian/patches/series: https://pastebin.com/ZWC6gLSH
[21:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Error: https://pastebin.com/qhJayL3w
[22:07] <kc2bez[m]> Hmm, thoughts here Simon Quigley (Developer)?
[22:08] <tsimonq2> Oh so the Git repo needs to be updated
[22:09] <kc2bez[m]> What is in debian/changelog for a version arraybolt3
[22:15] <arraybolt3[m]> Hold on, grabbing it...
[22:16] <arraybolt3[m]> https://termbin.com/yo67
[22:17] <arraybolt3[m]> That's the contents of debian/changelog from the calamares-packaging Git repo I believe. (Come to think of it, I should have just linked to the file on GitHub...)
[22:19] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah, all good. That is definitely not the latest.
[22:19]  * kc2bez[m] shakes fist at github
[22:19] <arraybolt3[m]> The changelog in the files from apt-get source looks right.
[22:19] <kc2bez[m]> We can't really use that though
[22:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Crud.
[22:22] <arraybolt3[m]> I have the bootloader patch extracted from the upstream code, though.
[22:22]  * kc2bez[m] wonders why it isn't mirrored, it should be.
[22:22] <arraybolt3[m]> It's not up to date on Phab, either.
[22:22] <kc2bez[m]> No?
[22:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Top line of the file is "calamares (3.2.59-0ubuntu1) kinetic; urgency=medium"
[22:23] <kc2bez[m]> Blah
[22:24]  * kc2bez[m] wonders what is in launchpad
[22:25]  * tsimonq2 flies
[22:25] <kc2bez[m]> Indeed
[22:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Lots of em.
[22:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, I can git clone from Launchpad.
[22:27] <kc2bez[m]> Maybe, you won't be able to push there though.
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> At least, I thought I could, but it won't take my username or email or password.
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (At least not through Git, anyway.)
[22:29] <kc2bez[m]> Right, that is what I would have thought.
[22:59] <kc2bez[m]> Alright, this might be less an issue of the system(s) and more like we need some commits from Simon Quigley (Developer) ;)
[23:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, possibly silly question, but can I git clone the repo, copy all of the corresponding files from the apt-get source download, do git add * and git commit and have it fixed?
[23:01] <kc2bez[m]> The problem with doing that is it squashes all of the commits and you loose the tags too.
[23:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Eh, oh well. I'll just wait.
[23:28] <kc2bez[m]> Sorry about that arraybolt3 we'll get you over the finish line as soon as we can.
 tbh we should be using a less convoluted workflow imo
 its why i use git-buildpackage in Debian source repos for me :P


[11:33] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
 howdy
 @acheronuk, rik : do u have ETA when the builder will resume building the package?
 @myfenris, Nope
 :(
 When I know, I will post in here
 Okay thanks a lot
 I'm not fully in 5.11.5 :(
 @myfenris, The staging ppa has the missing bits
 Yups
 and staging ppa versions are always ~ubuntux.xx~ppax, so will get replaced by main archive builds when they finally come
[19:06] <wxl> Meltdown/Spectre-fixed stable kernels now out https://lwn.net/Articles/743246
[19:08] <mamarley> wxl: It looks like a patched kernel is now in bionic-proposed too.
[19:08] <mamarley> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.14.0-14.17
[19:09] <wxl> nice
[19:09] <wxl> hopefully this means Launchpad is up and running again
[19:09] <wxl> (soon)
[19:10] <mamarley> I imagine the builders are probably running no later than Xenial, so it will still be a bit, I think.
[19:10] <mamarley> But I too am ready for the build farm to work again.  I probably have 40-50 builds queued right now.
[19:10] <mamarley> (Not that many packages, but just considering all the architectures.)
[19:13] <mamarley> Even once they do start back up, it will probably take days to process all the backlog.
[19:14] <acheronuk> fingers crossed then :)
[19:15] <acheronuk> I've been annoying the Neon builders in the meantime
[19:15]  * acheronuk hides
[20:03] <mamarley> Look at this, there is a build of intel-microcode that has a partial fix for some of the meltdown/spectre stuff, but it is stuck on the queue because of meltdown/spectre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/3.20171215.1/+build/14218681
[20:35] <valorie> heh
[20:35] <mamarley> I don't think it will do much though without a kernel patch that has yet to be included.
 @mamarley, They'll let it through if they haven't already.
[21:32] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Artful Dot One] (20180105.2) has been added
[21:32] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop i386 [Artful Dot One] (20180105.2) has been added
[22:28] <acheronuk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2018-January/000227.html
[22:28] <acheronuk> Zesty EOL and Itel bug updates ^^^
[22:28] <acheronuk> *intel
[22:29] <wxl> itel man
[22:29] <wxl> rastafari
[22:29] <wxl> i and i
[22:29]  * acheronuk shrugs
[22:57] <mparillo> I took the news on ZZ EOL to fire up that VM one last time, and post the Plasma 5.11.5 backport news before deleting the VM.
[22:57] <valorie> how do I ensure I'm running the HWE kernel?
[22:58] <valorie> $ uname -r
[22:58] <wxl> assuming you know the version you can just uname your way to it
[22:58] <valorie> 4.13.0-21-generic
[22:58] <valorie> which....
[22:58] <mparillo> Post to Facebook that is.
[22:58] <valorie> thanks mparillo!
[22:59] <mparillo> Maybe somebody who actually likes FB will join us.
[23:00] <valorie> I tolerate it
[23:01] <wxl> since we've started using it for advertising at work i've learned enough to convince me that i am most definitely deleting my account
[23:06] <valorie> my fam is there, and I use it to find and communicate with newly-found cousins
[23:06] <valorie> so i can't do without it
[23:29] <valorie> the ubuntu hwe page says `sudo apt-get install --install-recommends linux-generic-hwe-16.04 xserver-xorg-hwe-16.04`
[23:29] <valorie> oops
[23:29] <valorie> no, that's right -- so if I replace 16.04 > 17.10 I wonder if it will work
[23:30] <valorie> If I have it, nothing will happen
[23:33] <valorie> no packages by that name, ok


[00:22] <Ahmuck-Jr> the emperor has no clothes
[04:23] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:24] <HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
[04:25] <sbalneav> Heya HedgeMage!!!!
[04:25] <HedgeMage> Do you have a minute to look at something for me?  I'm working on ideas for the edubuntu.org redesign (though these are just rough thoughts -- I haven't even caught up with highvoltage to show him yet, I'm just showing them around to get input)
[04:25] <sbalneav> How was Christmas and Newyears?
[04:25] <sbalneav> Sure!
[04:25] <sbalneav> Lay it on me.
[04:26] <HedgeMage> The latest front page mockup is at http://imagebin.ca/view/KgCXBt.html
[04:28] <sbalneav> I'd replace "education obsessed-wing" with "Education activist cell" :)
[04:28] <sbalneav> Looks awesome
[04:28] <sbalneav> Love the Lorum Ipsums :)
[04:29] <sbalneav> Is our site drupal?
[04:29] <sbalneav> You do all that graphics stuff yourself?!
[04:30] <HedgeMage> Yes, our site is Drupal, though it needs updating badly... highvoltage and I talked about it at length after the meeting and have some plans.
[04:30] <HedgeMage> And yes, I did those graphics myself, other than the logo which I grabbed from somewhere a while ago.
[04:31] <sbalneav> I wish I could do graphics stuff.
[04:31] <HedgeMage> I'm not great at it -- at work I keep a pro designer on staff -- but this should be workable
[04:32] <HedgeMage> Here's a rough of the forum page: http://imagebin.ca/view/5n49WaF.html  (still unfinished, but a general idea, also shows how the header looks on a wider display)
[04:32] <sbalneav> So, the work you do, you own a business with a staff? Yowie Zowie! Awesome.
[04:32] <sbalneav> Nice!
[04:32] <HedgeMage> highvoltage and I talked about, instead of starting standalone webforums, creating forums linked to the existing mailing lists.
[04:33] <sbalneav> Ah!  That would be great.
[04:33] <HedgeMage> That way, we have instant traffic, and lower the barrier to entry for the most-used discussion fora.
[04:33] <sbalneav> I really hate the "Check the mailing list!  No Check the forums" dichotomy.
[04:34] <sbalneav> Ulitmately, what we really need is webforum software where the "database backend" is the mailing list :)
[04:34] <HedgeMage> That's exactly what we're building
[04:34] <sbalneav> Supah!
[04:34] <HedgeMage> The forum is just another way of accessing the ML
[04:34] <sbalneav> If you need some python/C help, lemme know.
[04:35] <HedgeMage> Thanks, but this is 100% PHP because that is what Drupal is in.
[04:36] <sbalneav> Everybody oooh's and ahhh's over people who can program. "Ooooh, you must be sooo smart to be able to program".  But programming's just crank-turning to a large degree.  Having a good eye for layout, being able to draw and manipulate graphics, know ing what fonts to use where, that an art.  Art takes *talent*.
[04:37] <HedgeMage> Programming takes a clarity of thought that most people don't have, though.
[04:37] <HedgeMage> I'm more coder than designer, though my artist has taught me some basics :)
[04:37] <sbalneav> I think a forum/ml integration could pretty much be a FS project on it's own.
[04:37] <sbalneav> You're better than I
[04:37] <HedgeMage> FS?
[04:38] <sbalneav> Free Software
[04:38] <HedgeMage> heh, thanks
[04:38] <HedgeMage> ahh
[04:38] <HedgeMage> The forum/ml gateway is already available as a Drupal module...it just requires configuration.
[04:38] <sbalneav> That'd be a winner if you got it going.  LOTS of projects would love that.
[04:38] <HedgeMage> I've used it on many sites before.
[04:38] <sbalneav> Really?!  How come we don't use it more?!
[04:38] <sbalneav> Wow
[04:39] <HedgeMage> Because most people working on these, while well-meaning, are doing it as a first Drupal experience.  I do it for a living, so I already know where all the cool toys are ;)
[04:39] <sbalneav> Supah!
[04:39] <sbalneav> Excited about the "re-vitalization" of Edubuntu?
[04:40] <HedgeMage> Yep. :)
[04:40] <sbalneav> Cool, when't the next meeting for F&O?
[04:40] <sbalneav> When's
[04:40] <HedgeMage> Can I look it up and jabber or email you?  I don't know off the top of my head but I think I have it somewhere.
[04:41] <HedgeMage> My usual strategy is waiting for dorenwen to remind me ;)
[04:42] <sbalneav> Sure, you know where to find me on jabber
[04:43] <HedgeMage> cool
[04:45] <HedgeMage> sbalneav: I'm starting to think about writing up the edubuntu redesign/upgrades in a case study for drupal.org -- I think it would both help other open source projects that aren't quite sure what to do with their sites, and give edubuntu some visibility -- what do you think?
[04:45] <sbalneav> Looks like I've actually managed to get some interest going for bug day.
[04:45] <HedgeMage> cool :)
[04:45] <sbalneav> Sounds like a great idea.
[04:46] <sbalneav> Are you, or have you ever considered, contributing upstream to Drupal?
[04:46] <HedgeMage> I have been for years :)
[04:46] <HedgeMage> I'm not one of the biggest contributers, but I'm active in the issue queues whether testing or submitting patches or whatnot.
[04:47] <sbalneav> Awesome.
[04:47] <sbalneav> It's great when you use a tool for your work, being upstream for the tool.
[04:47] <HedgeMage> Definitely.
[04:47] <sbalneav> It's like me with LTSP.  I use LTSP at work, and I'm a developer.
[04:47]  * HedgeMage nods
[04:48] <HedgeMage> The people who write the stuff invariably know it best.
[04:48] <sbalneav> It's like the old saying: if you know how to cook, you always get to eat what you want.
[04:48] <HedgeMage> :D
[04:48] <sbalneav> Being involved upstream guarentees you'll always get your itches scratched.
[04:49] <HedgeMage> Yes, and always know what's coming so you can be on the forefront.
[04:50] <sbalneav> Right, web consulting's a cutthoat business, lots of competition.  Being one step ahead = $$
[04:50] <HedgeMage> :)
[04:51] <sbalneav> Yeah, I think your designs would be awesome, and I'm REALLY liking the ML/WebForum gateway.
[04:52] <HedgeMage> Thanks!
[04:55] <HedgeMage> I'm going to treat myself to a long, hot shower, warm jammies, and my new slippers.  Be back in an hour, give or take.
[04:55] <HedgeMage> :)
[04:55] <sbalneav> kk
[04:55] <sbalneav> I'll be here
[06:23]  * HedgeMage returns, wearing awesome slippers
[06:23] <HedgeMage> (and pajamas...not JUST slippers)
[17:37] <HedgeMage> hi, alkisg
[17:55] <alkisg> Hi HedgeMage, how are you?
[17:58] <HedgeMage> alkisg: Not bad at all, you?
[17:58] <alkisg> Fine :)
[18:03] <ubunturookie> hi
[18:03] <ubunturookie> i have an acer aspire and i was running ubuntu 8.04 and my wireless was running i up dated to 9.04 and 9.10 now my wireless stopped what may i do to have my wireless again?
[18:05] <alkisg> ubunturookie: you should probably ask this question in #ubuntu, this channel (#edubuntu) is for education-related stuff...
[18:05] <ubunturookie> sorry
[18:05] <alkisg> np
[18:05] <HedgeMage> brb
[18:14] <HedgeMage> I'm back, but I may be slow to respond...I'm eating :)
[18:25] <alkisg> HedgeMage: about http://imagebin.ca/view/KgCXBt.html - you're doing a fine job! But, maybe the colors are a bit vivid?
[18:26] <HedgeMage> alkisg: check out http://imagebin.ca/view/5n49WaF.html  -- it's a work-in-progress of the forum page draft, with less punchy colors
[18:27] <alkisg> Yup, saw it, looks fine and it was much needed :)
[18:29] <HedgeMage> cool :)
[19:35] <moldy> hello
[19:36] <HedgeMage> hello :)
[22:39] <alkisg> !info empathy lucid