[06:35] <DanaG> Oh hey, how can I make a persistent mount with fstab, yet ensure that if it doesn't mount, things can't write to where the mount would be?
[06:38] <telexicon> DanaG, mount a readonly tmpfs beforehand?
[06:38] <DanaG> Hmm, that's an idea.
[06:38] <telexicon> oh actually
[06:38] <telexicon> you could just set the permissions
[06:38] <telexicon> when the new mount goes up, it uses permissions from the new fs
[06:39] <telexicon> so set the only one like 444 or whichever
[06:39] <telexicon> er old one*
[06:49] <DanaG> oh hey, does nv driver do suspend?
[06:50] <DanaG> I'm setting up an older laptop (GeForce 420 Go) as a server, so I want it to run X to be vnc'able, but I don't need fancyness.
[06:50] <RAOF> DanaG: No.
[06:50] <crdlb> isn't there a hack involving a kernel module?
[06:50] <RAOF> DanaG: Not unless you use mjg's nv_bios module :)
[06:50] <DanaG> What's that?
[06:51] <DanaG> And does it also fix nouveau?
[06:51] <crdlb> a kernel module
[06:51] <RAOF> A bios module to make nv suspend.
[06:51] <RAOF> s/bios/kernel/
[06:51] <RAOF> DanaG: It should fix nouveau*, but didn't work when I tried it.
[06:51] <DanaG> Did I show you the HP "BIOS Setup" emulator that seems to be UEFI?
[06:52] <LSD|Ninja> Speaking of VNC, when will whatever is preventing vino from starting when you enable remote desktop be fixed?
[06:52] <RAOF> With a very important *: it doesn't save or restore the 3d state, so if nouveau is providing any acceleration at all, it won't work on resume.
[06:52] <RAOF> DanaG: Yeah.  Interesting.
[06:52] <DanaG> GeForce 420 Go.... is not really much acceleration anyways.
[06:52] <DanaG> =þ
[06:52] <RAOF> There's _plenty_ of acceleration available on that.
[06:52] <LSD|Ninja> any acceleration it does offer would be obiterated by VNC anyway since VNC is godawfully slow
[06:53] <RAOF> I'm not talking 3d; nouveau uses the 3d engine to accelerate 2d.
[06:53] <DanaG> With 32 megs of video RAM... compiz == ouch.
[06:53] <DanaG> And only 256 megs of system RAM.
[06:53] <RAOF> And you can _really_ notice unaccelerated 2d.
[06:53]  * crdlb begs to differ
[06:53] <DanaG> Oh yeah, is there a more readable sort of CPU ID sort of thingy?
[06:53] <DanaG> like CPU-Z?
[06:54] <RAOF> crdlb: Ok.  _I_ can really notice unaccelerated 2d :P
[06:54] <voidmage> anyone know if there are plans to add zsnes to intrepid amd64?
[06:54] <crdlb> RAOF: I meant that in response to  < DanaG> With 32 megs of video RAM... compiz == ouch.
[06:54] <RAOF> crdlb: Ah.  Right.
[06:55] <RAOF> voidmage: Last time I looked, zsnes wasn't 64bit safe.  If you can fix it up so that it'll actually run on x86-64, please attach the patch to a bug ;)
[06:55] <DanaG> If I try wobbly with it......
[06:55] <DanaG> can you say, OOM?
[06:55] <DanaG> Out Of Memory.
[06:55] <RAOF> Wobbly doesn't consume GPU memory.
[06:55] <DanaG> Hmm, this is not very useful:
[06:55] <DanaG> vendor_id	: GenuineIntel      cpu family	: 15      model		: 2    model name	: Mobile Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1.60GHz    stepping	: 7
[06:56] <DanaG> Umm... tell me....
[06:56] <RAOF> Although nvidia's poor t_f_p support for that card will hinder you a bit.
[06:56] <DanaG> is that P3-celeron, or P4 celeron?
[06:56] <LSD|Ninja> 1.6GHz sounds like a P4
[06:56] <RAOF> Or a Core2 celeron? :)
[06:56] <DanaG> Nope.
[06:56] <DanaG> With a GeForce 420?
[06:56] <crdlb> does it matter? it's a celeron :>
[06:56] <DanaG> =þ
[06:57] <DanaG> The Athlon XP laptop with the Savage is faster... but it gets hard-lockups.
[06:57]  * RAOF can remember when celerons were highly sought after performance parts.
[06:57] <LSD|Ninja> Tualitin P3s topped out abotu about 1.4GHz iirc, Intel just couldn't push P3 higher. What's funny though is at those clockspeeds, P3 was faster than P4 which is why Intel killed tualitin :P
[06:58] <RAOF> Of course, that was when they had _no_ L2 cache at all so they could be easily and reliably overclocked.
[06:58] <DanaG> I remember seeing Slot 1 "vegetables" with a 66 MHz bus speed.
[06:59] <LSD|Ninja> Celerons were 66MHz FSB well into the S370 P3 cores
[06:59] <DanaG> Actually calling it a "vegetable" is at least a bit funnier than calling it "celery".
[08:38] <vega--> trying to go from hardy to ibex using update-manager -d but it doesn't give the option, what to do?
[08:39] <mvo> vega--: what does ~/.update-manager-core/meta-release-development show?
[08:40] <vega--> mvo: there's no such file
[08:40] <vega--> the .update-manager-core dir is there
[08:41] <vega--> does /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades have anything to do with this? ie. enforcing some strict "LTS policy" ...
[08:42] <Flannel> vega--: you need -c as well
[08:42] <Flannel> -c is needed to get "away" from LTS, -d is for non-releases
[08:43] <vega--> Flannel: nope, sudo update-manager -c -d didn't do it
[08:44] <vega--> hardy is also fully up to date
[08:44] <mvo> vega--: it does (/etc/update-manager) but it unless you have put "never check" there, it should still work with updat-emanager -d
[08:44] <vega--> mvo: it's set to normal
[08:45] <mvo> vega--: are you behind a proxy ?
[08:45] <vega--> yes
[08:45] <vega--> but normal upgrades to hardy work
[08:45] <mvo> vega--: are you in a gnome-terminal? if not, could you please open one?
[08:45] <vega--> open already
[08:46] <mvo> vega--: what does echo $http_proxy print? anything useful?
[08:46] <vega--> empty
[08:47] <mvo> vega--: do you have the proxy set in gnome-network-preferences ?
[08:47] <vega--> system -> preferences -> network proxy ... hmm no it's not
[08:48] <mvo> vega--: aha, but it is set in synaptic I suppose? that sounds like the error
[08:48] <vega--> not set in synaptic either
[08:48] <vega--> but in apt.conf as i usualy run from command line
[08:48] <vega--> ok wait..
[08:49] <vega--> yes, now it works after setting it in synaptic
[08:50] <mvo> vega--: ok, thanks - I will fix that
[08:50] <vega--> update-manager COULD say something about not being able to check for upgrades.. instead of being silent
[08:50] <vega--> ok
[08:51] <vega--> anyway, time to test hardy -> intrepid, thanks for helping
[08:51] <mvo> vega--: if you could wait ~1-2h then a new version of the upgrade wil be available
[08:52] <vega--> sorry, already started the upgrade :)
[08:53] <mvo> there is a "cancel" button in the download window ;)
[08:53] <vega--> does it restore sources.list etc.? :)
[08:53] <mvo> there might be a bug in the current version that causes a crash for some people, this is why I mentioned it
[08:53] <mvo> yes
[08:53] <mvo> it will restore the original system state
[08:53] <vega--> ok, canceled, it's a test machine anyway
[08:54] <vega--> i can wait
[08:56] <vega--> does "new version of the upgrade" mean a new update-manager package for hardy or some other component behind the scenes?
[08:57] <vega--> ie. how do i know when it's safe to start upgrading..
[08:59] <mvo> vega--: some component behind the scene (a new upgrader)
[09:09] <mvo> vega--: the new version got just upload to intrepid, it will take a bit until it gets published, but feedback on this one is very welcome :) the way it works is that the updat-emanager in hardy downloads the "release-upgrader" component from intrepid, so nothing new in hardy is required
[09:09] <DanaG> what the heck.... the keyboard on this toshiba just got screwed up.
[09:09] <DanaG> d^[[2~esg
[09:09] <DanaG> That sure doesn't look like an 'm' to me.
[09:11] <vega--> mvo: ok i see, it's the intrepid.tar.gz that update-manager downloads?
[09:11] <mvo> vega--: yes
[09:11] <vega--> i'll upgrade after lunch in a few hours.. i'll report any problems
[09:11] <mvo> vega--: great, thanks!
[09:29] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/217504
[09:29] <DanaG> Just noticed that today.
[09:36] <DanaG> wow, envy suggested the wrong video driver for that GeForce 420 Go.
[09:36] <DanaG> It suggested legacy; the regular non-legacy works fine.
[09:50] <DanaG> argh, where's cubeaddons?
[09:52] <DanaG> ... and staticswitcher?
[09:59] <sanzanric> So does anybody know if synaptic is still being actively developed?
[10:00] <mvo> sanzanric: yes it is
[10:01] <sanzanric> Their last release was in 2005
[10:01] <mvo> sanzanric: synaptic as in the package manager gui? the last release (0.62.1) was within the last couple of weeks :) the website may be badly out of date though
[10:02] <sanzanric> Oh, ok. Yeah not a very good web site. No offense.
[10:03] <mvo> none taken, it is indeed not great, the biggest problem is that the developer(s) like to develop instead of updating the web-page that is a PR problem :/
[10:04] <sanzanric> Of course. Do you know what new feature they have been adding?
[10:04] <mvo> sanzanric: the latest was fast search (search as you type) that is in intrepid now
[10:05] <mvo> sanzanric: it searches over the full description, name, summary space
[10:05] <sanzanric> oh, but its seams to be disabled in my current intrepid.
[10:06] <mvo> sanzanric: could you please try to install apt-xapian-index ? its a helper that should be pulled in automatically, looks like there is a bug somewhere if it is not
[10:07] <sanzanric> ah, your right! Odd its listed under recommends, maybe that should be changed to suggested?
[10:08] <sanzanric> or depends
[10:10] <mvo> yeah, I need to check that. out of curiosity, what features do you miss in synaptic?
[10:11] <sanzanric> Hm, I probably would first say that somebody really needs to update that "Mark All Updates" Icon.
[10:11] <mvo> heh :) if you have a good icon, I'm sure it would be taken!
[10:12] <sanzanric> sadly im no artist
[10:13] <sanzanric> but also, although this might require changes in apt, pictures in the descriptions.
[10:14] <sanzanric> I would also move the top panel, the one which provides the apply options etc., to the bottom.
[10:15] <sanzanric> Because if someone is reading a description, they shouldn't have to move their mouse form the bottom of the screen to the top
[10:19] <sanzanric> i would also redo the interface slightly by have the version number, maintainer, and kinda unimportant information (un)collapsible under neath the package name.
[11:28] <avis> does intrepid have 3d support for the radeonhd driver and r520gl cards ?  how is it running these days ?
[11:49] <vega--> mvo: /win 12
[11:49] <vega--> err, did not intend to do that..
[11:50] <vega--> mvo: upgrade is running now with 5min remaining, no problems so far.. started 30min ago
[12:10] <vega--> mvo: the upgrade procedure went well, itself.. although after boot there were serious problems with graphics
[12:10] <vega--> but that's another story
[12:11] <mvo> vega--: thanks, happy to hear that the upgrade went ok. the kernel in intrepid seems to have issues on some hw, I have seen similar things
[12:12] <vega--> went into low graphics mode, and after a little arguing with the display configurator i got it working
[12:13] <vega--> it didn't use my old working config from hardy..
[12:13] <vega--> also keyboard settings got reset, no more scandinavian characters
[12:25] <mvo> vega--: what video card do you use? is that a nvidia? or something else?
[13:00] <kallu>  my display is going off with intrepid default kernel .. whats the problem
[13:06] <jonpackard> kallu: what video card are you using?
[13:09] <kallu> mine is onboard G33
[13:10] <jonpackard> did you upgrade from hardy to intrepid?
[13:10] <kallu> jonpackard, yeah
[13:12] <jonpackard> kallu: checking LP to see if it's been reported ;-)
[13:15] <jonpackard> kallu: when you say "going off". what do you mean exactly?
[13:15] <kallu> it behaves as if there is no signal .. and hard drives are working
[13:16] <kallu> jonpackard, some time later x is starting but no kdm and no shell for alt+F1
[13:17] <jonpackard> kallu: That is strange.. so what do you get once X starts?
[13:18] <kallu> jonpackard, just a plain screen with totally brown color
[13:18] <jonpackard> kallu: and you said Ctrl-Alt-F1 does not do anything?
[13:19] <kallu> yup
[13:19] <kallu> its a strange problem .. i have seen this bug on launchpad 3 days ago .. but i was unable to find it
[13:21] <jonpackard> kallu: do you have the Alpha3 live CD by chance?
[13:22] <kallu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/249037
[13:24] <jonpackard> kallu: did you try removing 'splash' from your kernel line? This disables usplash (the fancy loading bar on boot)
[13:25] <kallu> jonpackard, yeah.. seems usplash is the bad guy here .. i will remove it
[13:27] <jonpackard> kallu: it sure seems odd that usplash would cause such a critical problem =X
[14:45] <murlidhar> i am not able to go to my desktop. .     i put a tar.gz file in /usr/share/icons using root menu in pcmanfm . it got restarted and i am not able to boot into my desktop also sudo doesn't have any permissions in root . i.e sudo apt-get instal xxxx  doesn't install anything saying sudo has no permission
[14:45] <murlidhar> gdm too doesn't start
[14:46] <murlidhar> how to recover my system using alternate cd /
[14:47] <murlidhar> there is an rescue mode , but i am not able to make it out since it seems to be installing the whole system in the drive
[14:49] <murlidhar> anyone ?
[14:50] <murlidhar> anyone ?
[14:52] <mvo> murlidhar: can you still boot into the recovery mode in the grub menu ?
[14:52] <mvo> hm, too impatient it seem
[15:04] <blackpearl> what happened to tacacs+ on ubuntu, it's not in the repository anymore
[15:38] <wd4lko> how come i only get 2 work spaces with compiz enabled ?
[15:41] <wd4lko> anybody get more then 2 workspaces with compiz enabled ?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> use ccsm
[15:46] <wd4lko>  ccsm, whats that ?
[15:46] <Hobbsee> looks like it's compiz-config-settings-manager, or similar
[15:48] <wd4lko> yep, which one adds more workspaces ?
[16:02] <jonpackard> wd4lko: in compizconfig-settings-manager (aka Preferences - Advanced Desktop Effects Settings), go to general options, then desktop size
[16:15] <wd4lko> jonpackard: I dont have a "Advanced Desktop Effects Settings" in System>Preferences, how do I get it ?
[16:18] <Pici> wd4lko: Are you running Intrepid?
[16:18] <wd4lko> Pici : yes
[16:19] <Pici> I don't mean to sound rude, but you shouldnt be using the development version if you can't find these simple things by yourself.
[16:19] <Pici> !ccsm
[16:23] <wd4lko> I'm using nvidia 173 and I have ccsm but when I enable desktop effects my workspaces go from 4 to 2 and workspace prefs won't change it.
[16:24] <gnomefreak> Pici: that should have hardy taken out if it
[16:24] <gnomefreak> s/if/of
[16:24] <gnomefreak> wd4lko: file a bug
[16:24] <Pici> gnomefreak: because?
[16:25] <gnomefreak> Pici: its the same in intrepid and factoids shouldnt be versioned
[16:25] <Pici> gnomefreak: but not the same in Hardy...
[16:25] <Pici> er, Gutsy
[16:25] <gnomefreak> Pici: gutsy doesnt have same packagess
[16:26] <wd4lko> maybe it is a bug, other people on the forum seem to have same prob, Thanks anyway
[16:26] <gnomefreak> wd4lko: file a bug
[16:26] <Pici> wd4lko: You should be filing bugs if you're using intrepid.
[16:28] <wd4lko> I have Hardy and it works fine, can get upto 16 workspaces, I do file bugs, I thought I missed something.
[16:29] <gnomefreak> wd4lko: can you give me abug number for this issue so i can look into it
[16:30] <wd4lko> Havent filed one on this yet, thought it might have been something I over looked.
[16:31] <gnomefreak> wd4lko: ok just remember a bug maybe the differnce between bug being fixed or not being fixed so its up to you.
[16:31] <negge> Hi. I'm running Intrepid fully updated. Everytime I logout or reboot I have to re-enable desktop effects. How can I fix this? I'm using the "ati" driver
[16:33] <gnomefreak> negge: you cant unless you know your way around and since you are asking that question you dont. file a bug or use hardy. if you havent already noticed you have to shut down 2 times in intrepid to get pc to shut down
[16:33] <negge> gnomefreak: chill out, I was just asking if there was an easy fix
[16:34] <negge> gnomefreak: how exactly do I file bugs? I've looked at Launchpad a hundred times but it makes no sense
[16:34] <gnomefreak> its possible that the shutdown/reboot is not saving settings
[16:34] <gnomefreak> negge: tell me your kidding
[16:34] <negge> not really
[16:35] <gnomefreak> negge: what de?
[16:35] <gnomefreak> make that what DE
[16:36] <negge> :D
[16:36] <negge> gnomefreak: I'm gonna file one now
[16:36] <negge> I've always just looked at bug reports, never really gotten around to filing one myself before. And so far Intrepid has been working pretty flawlessly for me
[16:37] <gnomefreak> negge: than you are not using anything with it
[16:38] <negge> gnomefreak: I'm using it just like I use Hardy
[16:38] <negge> torrenting, listening to music, using pidgin and browsing the Web
[16:39] <gnomefreak> negge: gcc was borked until late last week shutdown still is borked a major breakage with X drivers atleast nvidia but i have heard its other drivers
[16:39] <gnomefreak> gnome apps are crashing is another one
[16:39] <aguitel> how mount usb pendrive in intrepid ?
[16:39]  * gnomefreak can rattle them off all day
[16:40] <gnomefreak> aguitel: same way you did in hardy
[16:40] <gnomefreak> aguitel: hint. insert it
[16:40] <gnomefreak> aguitel: it gives you warnings/error but wait long enough
[16:40] <aguitel> gnomefreak, is not mounted
[16:40] <gnomefreak> aguitel: mine mounts after errors
[16:41] <gnomefreak> aguitel: if it doesnt mount file a bug
[16:41] <dfgas> 8.10 is that broken?
[16:41] <aguitel> the error is:DBus error org.gtk.Private.RemoteVolumeMonitor.NotFound: The given volume was not found
[16:42] <gnomefreak> ok really look people this is not the time to be using intrepid if you cant do simple things like file a bug answer what DE your using ect... if you want system that runs and has little bugs use hardy for another month or 2
[16:42] <dfgas> k
[16:42] <gnomefreak> dfgas: read topic
[16:42] <gnomefreak> aguitel: oh and dbus is borked that is why i get the errors/warning and that goes for yours as well
[16:43] <aguitel> gnomefreak, how force mount with console
[16:43] <gnomefreak> thanks for remindnig me
[16:43] <gnomefreak> aguitel: file a bug, btw force mounting isnt gonna help you
[16:43] <negge> gnomefreak: I tried compiling the newest deluge from svn and it seemed to work (didn't manage to get the program running though)... the shutdown bug doesn't bother me that much, sudo reboot reboots instantly and that's what I mostly do (I don't shutdown). The ATI proprietary drivers don't work but the "ati" driver works better than in Hardy for me right now
[16:44] <gnomefreak> it seemed to work?
[16:44] <gnomefreak> how did it work if you couldnt get it running?
[16:45] <gnomefreak> negge: and yes i know how to use cli to shutdown but its still a bug and people that cant read bugs or file them need not run alpha software
[16:46] <gnomefreak> i suggest everyone read the topic and point out wher eit says this is a support channel for intrepid
[16:46] <gnomefreak> where it
[16:46] <gnomefreak> its too early to support anything with it
[16:47] <negge> gnomefreak: atleast it compiled, I don't know if I was missing some dependency or something.
[16:47] <negge> gnomefreak: anyway I'm filing a bug about the desktop effects issue now...
[16:48] <wd4lko> gnomefreak: simple-ccsm did the trick, added desktop colums for choices, Thanks for the help.
[16:48] <gnomefreak> negge: can make any app build/compile depending on what you are doing ut it needs to run
[16:48] <negge> yeah whatever
[16:48] <negge> I didn't bother investigating it
[17:00] <DanielRM> Why did I just join this channel?
[17:01] <DanielRM> I may use Intrepid but meh.
[17:31] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/217504
[17:31] <DanaG> argh.
[17:34] <bobby> hi, did someone test the usb2.0 issue with the new ibex?
[17:36] <gnomefreak> bobby: dbus issue?
[17:36] <gnomefreak> gives you dbus errors?
[17:36] <bobby> no, the usb2.0 bug sec seachring bug id
[17:36] <gnomefreak> other than that you would have to be alot less general
[17:39] <bobby> gnomefreak, well,https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/195762 , that and a bunch of similar problems
[17:39] <gnomefreak> bobby: and ?
[17:40] <bobby> well, i wanted to now if some one tried to use a usb 2.0 device
[17:40] <bobby> without, that that usb2.0 device gets unmounted
[17:41] <gnomefreak> bobby: does it fix it for you?
[17:41] <bobby> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/88746
[17:41] <gnomefreak> if not than you either have a different issue or it wasnt fixed for everyone
[17:41] <bobby> gnomefreak, i dont know, thats why im asking
[17:41] <gnomefreak> bobby: try asking in #ubuntu-bugs
[17:42] <DanaG> Here's a USB issue I have: if I try to use bluetooth audio with a bluetooth adapter plugged into a USB 2.0 port.... I get a panic!
[17:42] <gnomefreak> bobby: there are more people there
[17:42] <DanaG> If I use a USB 1.1 port............... it doesn't panic, but it still doesn't work.
[17:43]  * gnomefreak goes for smoke hoping someone might think of dbus and than look into it
[17:45] <DanaG> worst laptop keyboard evar: http://cgi.ebay.com/keyboard-for-Toshiba-satellite-laptop-2430/2435-M35-M45_W0QQitemZ200234011515QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806241399r6298#ebayphotohosting
[17:46] <DanaG> Don't you just love Toshiba?
[17:54] <zbrahead91> I get a regular error, btw
[17:54] <zbrahead91> Its quite odd
[17:54] <zbrahead91> fetching now...
[17:56] <zbrahead91> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/1947
[17:58] <gnomefreak> zbrahead91: most of time an error without how you get the error is kind of not helpful
[17:58] <zbrahead91> It just happens
[17:59] <gnomefreak> zbrahead91: during?
[17:59] <gnomefreak> zbrahead91: what do you see when it happens?
[17:59] <gnomefreak> zbrahead91: anything broken?
[18:00] <BUGabundo_work> hi
[18:00] <gnomefreak> error can be harmless as in it doesnt affect anything but for devs it mean something is failing
[18:00] <zbrahead91> Nothing breaks
[18:00] <BUGabundo_work> did todays updates mess GDM to anyone else?
[18:00] <zbrahead91> It happens during normal usage
[18:00] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: no gdm updates today
[18:00] <zbrahead91> Nope: BUGabundo_work
[18:00] <zbrahead91> There was
[18:00] <gnomefreak> that was yesterday
[18:00] <zbrahead91> Oh
[18:00] <zbrahead91> :P
[18:01] <BUGabundo_work> I'm back on a shell as root, and it says "cannot execute /bin/bash: permition denied"
[18:01] <zbrahead91> btw
[18:01] <zbrahead91> I have about 2 megs of this error in a log file -.-
[18:01] <gnomefreak> only had 2 updates today not counting the one that wants to remove scrollkeeper
[18:02] <BUGabundo_work> I haven't got that one yet gnomefreak
[18:02] <BUGabundo_work> but I can't start GDM with my "regular" user
[18:02] <gnomefreak> zbrahead91: you can try filing a bug since that error is more for devs than users
[18:02] <BUGabundo_work> startx as root works fine
[18:02] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: what errors are you getting?
[18:03] <zbrahead91> I think it is just my hardware, tbh.
[18:03] <zbrahead91> But I dont know what it means :s
[18:03] <BUGabundo_work> well, from grub, without splash, it just gets stuck.... after showing "reading files necessary to boot"
[18:03] <BUGabundo_work> if I go to recovery and get to a shell
[18:03] <BUGabundo_work> su bugabundo
[18:04] <BUGabundo_work> will fail with that error message I posted
[18:04] <BUGabundo_work> so I can't start X
[18:04] <BUGabundo_work> humm since I got a new kernel
[18:04] <BUGabundo_work> maybe it mess with X or nvidia
[18:04] <BUGabundo_work> let me try a dpkg.-rec Xserver
[18:06] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: more than likely
[18:06] <BUGabundo_work> did it
[18:06] <BUGabundo_work> didn't fix this
[18:06] <BUGabundo_work> it seems that some how
[18:06] <BUGabundo_work> my user can't use bash/dash
[18:07] <BUGabundo_work> rebooting
[18:08] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: thats not gdm
[18:08] <gnomefreak> gdm doesnt decide what shell a user uses
[18:08] <BUGabundo_work> I know
[18:08] <gnomefreak> k
[18:09] <BUGabundo_work> but I first detected that GDM would not start
[18:09] <BUGabundo_work> now I see a all new problem
[18:09] <BUGabundo_work> and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it
[18:09] <BUGabundo_work> that's why I'm here
[18:09] <BUGabundo_work> if it is a bug, I'll report it
[18:10] <BUGabundo_work> if it is some problem of my side, I expect to have support from you guys to help me out
[18:11] <BUGabundo_work> the line: io scheduler cfq registered (default) gets stuck for a while!
[18:11] <BUGabundo_work> its been there for more than 30 sec
[18:11] <BUGabundo_work> hey there it goes
[18:12] <BUGabundo_work> "mkdir: cannot create dir '/lib/modules/--generic/volatile/' readonly file system!!!!
[18:13] <BUGabundo_work> but / is rw
[18:15] <BUGabundo_work> any idea gnomefreak zbrahead91
[18:16] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: you use nvidia drivers?
[18:16] <BUGabundo_work> yep
[18:16] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: upgraded from hardy?
[18:16] <BUGabundo_work> from alberto
[18:17] <BUGabundo_work> 1.73
[18:17] <BUGabundo_work> I did upgrade, yes
[18:17] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: but did you install drivers clean?
[18:17] <gnomefreak> or did upgrade do that
[18:17] <gnomefreak> makes me think you used envy in hardy and never removed the modules envy built for you
[18:18] <gnomefreak> when upgrading
[18:18] <BUGabundo_work> I did a dist-upgrade before alpha1 come out
[18:18] <gnomefreak> 173 is looking in one place and you still have modules in another place
[18:18] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: thats not it than
[18:18] <BUGabundo_work> but my system was fine for the last two weeks
[18:18] <BUGabundo_work> with the new schema drivers
[18:18] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: anything else you care to tell me?
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> about ?
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> feel free to ask
[18:19] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: boot old kernel see if it works
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> all awnser the best I can
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> no older kernel
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> just
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> 2.6.26-5-gen
[18:19] <gnomefreak> if you got it before alpha one you should have 3 r so kernels
[18:19] <DanaG> heh, b43 doesn't seem to like Hibernate.
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> and the new option for safe boot
[18:19] <BUGabundo_work> that (dev name here) add
[18:20] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: if you removed the older kernels that was your first mistake
[18:20] <BUGabundo_work> I had <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:20] <BUGabundo_work> let me try the new option
[18:20] <gnomefreak> and?
[18:20] <gnomefreak> no not yet
[18:20] <gnomefreak> safemode we will use to fix the issue
[18:20] <BUGabundo_work> was it seb ?!
[18:20] <BUGabundo_work> can't remember its name
[18:20] <gnomefreak> seb128?
[18:21] <BUGabundo_work> ahhh I see I still have 2.6.26-4
[18:21] <BUGabundo_work> I can try that
[18:21] <BUGabundo_work> are we going to have another Gutsy melt down and lose TTYs ?
[18:21] <gnomefreak> hold on
[18:21] <BUGabundo_work> I can't change to tty with vga=773
[18:22] <BUGabundo_work> I see a lot of FAIL while booting
[18:22] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: this is what your grub file should look like if you upgraded before a1 http://pastebin.mozilla.org/504218
[18:22] <BUGabundo_work> including GDM
[18:22] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: i suggest with that many issues you reinstall
[18:22] <gnomefreak> or go to hardy for a while longer
[18:22] <BUGabundo_work> nope
[18:23] <BUGabundo_work> not that grub
[18:23] <BUGabundo_work> <IP_ADDRESS> and .4
[18:23] <BUGabundo_work> and "last succefull boot"
[18:23] <gnomefreak> i upgraded less than 3 days after intrepid repos opened
[18:23] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: thats normal
[18:23] <gnomefreak> everyone has that
[18:23] <gnomefreak> it doesnt affect anything that you would see
[18:23] <BUGabundo_work> and a coule more for recovery and INETBOOT
[18:24] <BUGabundo_work> 2.6.26-4 failed to boot
[18:24] <BUGabundo_work> where should I remove old nvidia modules?
[18:25] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: the envy script didnt allow that but its fairly late now since it built another set of them not real sure if envy overwrites the old modules
[18:26] <gnomefreak> if you havent already noticed the new nvidia drivers use envy to get set up
[18:26] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: but its looking like alot more than just driver issues
[18:26] <BUGabundo_work> I guess gnomefreak
[18:27] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: you need to find out what is wrong with one thing at a time. this is where you would file a bug and continue to work on it if you like
[18:27] <BUGabundo_work> drivers shouldn't make me unable to login to a shell
[18:27] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: gdm kernel ect...
[18:27] <BUGabundo_work> I did install x-lite3 today
[18:27] <gnomefreak> many differnet issues
[18:27] <BUGabundo_work> humm could that have messed my system?
[18:27] <gnomefreak> well start with that?
[18:27] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: hmmmm yes
[18:27] <gnomefreak> if X means xserver
[18:27] <gnomefreak> im assuming it does
[18:27] <BUGabundo_work> there aren't all that many issues
[18:28] <BUGabundo_work> I just have ONE
[18:28] <BUGabundo_work> can't login....
[18:28] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: i have seen more than 3
[18:28] <gnomefreak> thats alot of issues
[18:28] <BUGabundo_work> no.. x-lite is a VoIP propietary software
[18:28] <gnomefreak> they may all be related to one issue but no way to know without dealing with one at a time
[18:28] <BUGabundo_work> we are having VoIP probs here, and I instaled it to test the network
[18:28] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: try removing it and rebooting
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> already did it
[18:29] <gnomefreak> you can always install it again
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> it was a binary
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> I removed it from /var/opt
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> if that dumb thing messes my system I'll never use iot again
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> lol
[18:29] <BUGabundo_work> proprietary sucks
[18:33] <Kahuna0789> Hi everyone. Is anyone else having trouble with the 8.04 ISO? Iv tried to install the server and home editions and both off them display an error something like "bad checksum for device 1 (0x89)"... any ideas?
[18:34] <BUGabundo_work> humm bad burner, Kahuna0789 ?
[18:34] <BUGabundo_work> did md5 of the dowloaded iso check out?
[18:35] <Kahuna0789> iv tried 3 burned coppies and also tried installing it directly from the iso to a virtual environment
[18:35] <BUGabundo_work> did md5 of the dowloaded iso check out?
[18:35] <Kahuna0789> from 3 seperate downloads
[18:35] <BUGabundo_work> again
[18:35] <BUGabundo_work> did md5 of the dowloaded iso check out?
[18:35] <BUGabundo_work> from what mirror did you downloaded?
[18:36] <Kahuna0789> MIT Georgia... and i forgot the last one
[18:36] <BUGabundo_work> gnomefreak: starting X as root I get to gnome, but when I try to get to User and Groups I get a nerror
[18:36] <BUGabundo_work> so that may be what caused my system to lock me out
[18:36] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: thats not noramlly a good idea
[18:37] <Kahuna0789> is there a sum for all of the files in the iso or do you have to check each file?
[18:37] <gnomefreak> i still think ther eis a hidden issue
[18:37] <BUGabundo_work> Kahuna0789: humm what download manager did you use?
[18:37] <BUGabundo_work> Kahuna0789: there is one inside the ISO
[18:37] <Kahuna0789> i just downloaded it with firefox
[18:37] <BUGabundo_work> just mount it  and do md5sum -c md5.........
[18:38] <Kahuna0789> il try that
[18:38] <Kahuna0789> thanks
[18:38] <BUGabundo_work> Kahuna0789: mount -o loop /ubuntu.iso /mnt/iso
[18:38] <BUGabundo_work> or something like that
[18:38] <BUGabundo_work> don't forget sudo lol
[18:39] <Kahuna0789> im running it from windows lol but i get the point
[18:39] <BUGabundo_work> gnomefreak: what's not a good idea?
[18:39] <BUGabundo_work> startx as root?
[18:39] <BUGabundo_work> humm
[18:39] <BUGabundo_work> from windows, just us imgburn
[18:39] <BUGabundo_work> it will do it for you
[18:39] <DanaG> My next laptop will have Intel AMT; I'll be able to boot from an ISO over the network.
[18:40] <BUGabundo_work> DanaG: I do that with inetboot
[18:40] <BUGabundo_work> I test ibex dailies or fedora just like that
[18:40] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: i cant right now im dealing with something
[18:40] <BUGabundo_work> danag http://openlab.jp/oscircular/inetboot/
[18:42] <BUGabundo_work> gnomefreak: humm let me guess PAM update... it seems a nice culprid
[18:43] <BUGabundo_work> is steve langasek here?!!?
[18:43] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: that is very likely
[18:43] <BUGabundo_work> he is the mantainer of PAM
[18:43] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: not in here
[18:44] <BUGabundo_work> I'll just open a bug
[18:44] <BUGabundo_work> let see if he comments in it
[18:44] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: developers dont nomrally hang out in here some do but most dont you will find him in #ubuntu-motu
[18:44] <gnomefreak> but he may be working on it if it is pam
[18:48] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: just a quick word you might want to look into it more sice you are only one seeing it
[19:39] <askand> Is it tru that openjdk wil be default in intrepid?
[20:45] <jpds>  /17
[20:50] <SSD> is ext4 in intrepid?
[20:51] <SSD> is ext4 in interpid?
[20:55] <dooley> When I am using the old 2.6.24 kernel I experience no problems. However, when I use the new 2.6.26 kernel in 8.10a3, my SATA disks makes strange scary noises
[23:22] <Volkodav> is there barry for 64 bit ?
[23:22] <aguitel> barry?
[23:23] <Volkodav> yeah
[23:23] <aguitel> what is this
[23:24] <Volkodav> sync tool for Blackberry
[23:24] <aguitel> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=661785
[23:25] <aguitel> Volkodav, see link
[23:25] <Volkodav> thanks


[05:37] <davecheney> woot, my x220 arrived
[05:37] <davecheney> boo, my 9mm ssd does not fit
[05:38] <imbrandon> whats the best way to obtain the machine_id outside of a hook context , e.g from a script running on cron so i can pass it to a cli app via --machine_id , is that available yet ?
[06:57] <wrtp> davecheney, fwereade: mornin'
[06:57] <fwereade> wrtp, heyhey
[06:57] <davecheney> morning' lads
[06:58] <davecheney> wrtp: i commited the environ/setconfig stuff last night
[06:59] <wrtp> davecheney: yay!
[06:59] <davecheney> so you should be cool to merge your PutBucket caching
[06:59] <wrtp> davecheney: i'll do the madeBucket stuff next then
[06:59] <davecheney> wrtp: jynx
[06:59] <davecheney> also, my x220 came this afternoon
[06:59] <davecheney> so I am in heaven
[06:59] <wrtp> davecheney: great. it's beenh working well for me
[06:59] <wrtp> davecheney: did you go for solid state?
[07:00] <davecheney> i was going to move over the disk I had in my netbook
[07:00] <davecheney> but it turns out you need a 7mm ssd
[07:00] <davecheney> so i'll put my current one in my desktop and get another one for this
[07:00] <davecheney> at the moment i'm in 7200rpm country
[07:00] <davecheney> eww
[07:01] <davecheney> wrtp: fwereade g+ says that gustavo is in +1 atm
[07:01] <davecheney> is that true ?
[07:01] <wrtp> davecheney: yeah
[07:01] <wrtp> davecheney: he's in london
[07:01] <davecheney> conference ?
[07:01] <wrtp> davecheney: sprint of some kind
[07:01] <fwereade> davecheney, wrtp speaks truth :)
[07:01] <davecheney> i heard they are moving out of millbank towers
[07:02] <wrtp> davecheney: yeah. don't know why though.
[07:02] <wrtp> davecheney: maybe lease ran out or something
[07:02] <davecheney> sounds like a long way to go for a working bee, but who am i to judge
[07:02] <fwereade> davecheney, wrtp: as I understand it just not enough space there
[07:02] <wrtp> fwereade: ah, makes sense
[07:02] <fwereade> davecheney, wrtp: bit disappointed in myself that I never got round to visiting, apparently it was rather cool
[07:03] <wrtp> fwereade: me too.
[07:03] <davecheney> wrtp: i'm still getting that strange 'cant find cmd/jujud' test error
[07:03] <wrtp> fwereade: didn't have an excuse though
[07:03] <davecheney> it eventually sorts itself out
[07:03] <wrtp> davecheney: have you still got it?
[07:03] <davecheney> wrtp: happens any time I touch ~/go/src/pkg
[07:03] <davecheney> it's clearly a bug in the go test support for main packages
[07:03] <davecheney> but i'm thinking of just giving up and moving the agents out of main
[07:03] <wrtp> davecheney: yeah.
[07:04] <wrtp> davecheney: that's not the way forward though!
[07:04] <davecheney> i'm on the fence if testing main packages is really the right solution
[07:04] <wrtp> davecheney: i've been trying to home in on the bug, but haven't figured out a way of reliably reproducing it
[07:04] <wrtp> davecheney: i don't see why not.
[07:05] <davecheney> wrtp: cd ~/go/src && ./all.bash && rm -rf $GOPATH/pkg/launchpad.net/juju/*
[07:05] <davecheney> will do it
[07:05]  * wrtp tries that
[07:07] <wrtp> davecheney: doesn't seem to
[07:07] <davecheney> oh, sorry, do a hg update
[07:07] <davecheney> you need to have a different version of the std lib
[07:07] <davecheney> % go version
[07:07] <davecheney> go version weekly.2012-03-27 +1afae7555667
[07:07] <davecheney> ^ the last bit has to change
[07:09] <davecheney> wrtp: if that doesn't work, then leave it with me
[07:09] <davecheney> i'll figure out what is the cause
[07:09] <davecheney> that upsets it
[07:13] <fwereade> davecheney, btw, re Machine.Config()... my gut says this should just be a pair of SetInstanceId/InstanceId methods
[07:13] <wrtp> davecheney: nope, that didn't work either
[07:13] <fwereade> davecheney, I'm not sure we really want anyone outside to know/care what keys we're using under the hood
[07:13] <davecheney> wrtp: ok, i'll figire out what i'm doing that shits it
[07:13] <davecheney> i'm pretty sure it's related to the damaged I do to my ~/go
[07:13] <davecheney> fwereade: fair call
[07:14] <davecheney> it's not hard to change, the underlying content of the machine node is still a *ConfigNode
[07:14] <davecheney> unless anyone has objections
[07:14] <fwereade> davecheney, cool, thanks :)
[07:14] <fwereade> davecheney, I'll not on the review for form's sake
[07:14] <fwereade> note
[07:15] <davecheney> fwereade: I won't change it tonight (can't be arsed merging) but consider your advice accepted
[07:15] <wrtp> davecheney: why do you think testing main packages might not be good, BTW?
[07:16] <davecheney> wrtp: well, 'cos it's buggy
[07:16] <wrtp> davecheney: apart from that
[07:16] <fwereade> davecheney, cheers
[07:16] <wrtp> davecheney: (the bug will be fixed)
[07:16] <wrtp> davecheney: i only see that bug *very* sporadically BTW
[07:16] <davecheney> i think (although this is only a matter of personal taste) that main packages should be as small as possible, they should just import the stuff that they need, instanciate it
[07:16] <davecheney> and off they go
[07:16] <davecheney> it's just a personal preference
[07:16] <davecheney> sort of based on the way that the go tool works
[07:17] <davecheney> ie, most of the logic is in go/build and friends
[07:17] <wrtp> davecheney: that's definitely not the way that the go tool is written!
[07:17] <davecheney> shows what I know :)
[07:17] <davecheney> anyway, it's not even a small objection
[07:17] <wrtp> davecheney: there are >7000 lines in cmd/go/*.go
[07:18] <wrtp> davecheney: bits which factor out nicely are done as packages, yeah
[07:18] <wrtp> davecheney: but i'm not sure i agree about the principle that all the logic of command line program should be in external packages.
[07:19] <davecheney> more guidelines
[07:19] <wrtp> davecheney: i think packages should be useful...
[07:19] <davecheney> i don't think of main as a package
[07:19] <wrtp> davecheney: it's not
[07:19] <wrtp> davecheney: well... it is strictly, but.
[07:20] <davecheney> and that forms the basis of my preference, nothing more
[07:20] <fwereade> wrtp, I see where davecheney's coming from, but in my case I suspect this is a prejudice based on unpleasant experiences with vast untestable mains in c/c++ :)
[07:20] <wrtp> davecheney: but i'm thinking about the package that you hive off so that the main package can be minimal
[07:21] <wrtp> davecheney: taking it to its logical conclusion you just get another package with a Main function...
[07:21] <davecheney> wrtp: there are limits to any good intention
[07:22] <wrtp> davecheney: and in Go (that bug notwithstanding) we *can* test main packages and their component pieces
[07:22] <davecheney> wrtp: maybe I should just try to figure out why go test keeps fucking up, then there is no reason for main to be a 2nd class citizen :)
[07:22] <wrtp> davecheney: indeed.
[07:23] <davecheney> what time does aram come online ?
[07:23] <davecheney> i was going to stick around for a chat
[07:23] <wrtp> davecheney: as i said, i only see that bug about once a month or so
[07:23] <wrtp> davecheney: i don't know when Aram comes on line, but soon I imagine
[07:24] <davecheney> wrtp: i get it more frequently, i'm pretty sutre it's related to linker skew when I rebuild go
[07:24] <davecheney> and I remember a bug with the go tool not checking the return code for the linker or go pack
[07:24] <davecheney> which might be a clue
[07:24] <wrtp> davecheney: we had the thought that we could try to have a G+ hangout with all of us today. do you think that might be possible?
[07:24] <davecheney> remy_o had a CL
[07:24] <davecheney> but it got superceeded by another
[07:25] <wrtp> davecheney: doesn't linker skew result in an error (incompatible versions, or something)?:
[07:25] <davecheney> wrtp: it _should_, but I think in this case the actual error is being eaten, so you don't get the .a on disk, then testing can't find it
[07:25] <davecheney> which is my suspicion
[07:26] <wrtp> davecheney: BTW if i touch the Go files, the problem goes away for me
[07:26] <davecheney> yeah, if you rebuild things in just the right way, and face the right direction, then problem goes away
[07:26] <davecheney> do you use go build or go get ?
[07:27] <wrtp> davecheney: in the normal course of things?
[07:27] <davecheney> alias gb='go install -v'
[07:27] <wrtp> davecheney: for juju, i rarely use anything but go test
[07:27] <davecheney> oh, that is weird
[07:27] <davecheney> that isn't supposed to be like that
[07:27] <davecheney> i thought I made it go install -v
[07:28] <wrtp> davecheney: i use go test -i too
[07:28] <davecheney> sorry, i thought it was go get -v
[07:29] <wrtp> davecheney: why would you use go get?
[07:29] <wrtp> davecheney: i suppose it gets dependencies automatically if they're not there
[07:29] <davecheney> yup
[07:29] <davecheney> turns out i don't need it :)
[07:29] <wrtp> davecheney: but if they are there, then there's no difference.
[07:29] <wrtp> i only use go get when i fetch something new
[07:30] <davecheney> oh, i remember now, i used to alias gb='go build -v'
[07:30] <davecheney> but that won't install intermediate pacakges
[07:30] <davecheney> so I switch to to go install
[07:31] <wrtp> davecheney: i don't use go build because it leaves the executables around
[07:31] <wrtp> davecheney: and they make the tree dirty
[07:31] <davecheney> yeah, and poos in your working copy
[07:32] <wrtp> davecheney: so can you reproduce issue 3417 now, out of interest?
[07:33] <davecheney> sporadically
[07:41] <wrtp> davecheney: i meant right at this moment, by following your instructions above.
[07:42] <wrtp> davecheney: but it doesn't matter - i was just interested
[07:43] <davecheney> wrtp: actually it's happening to me right now
[07:43] <davecheney> i wonder if it's timestamp related
[07:43] <wrtp> davecheney: that's my thought
[07:44] <davecheney> ctime <> mtime
[07:44] <wrtp> davecheney: nah, not ctime
[07:44] <davecheney> i run with noatime
[07:44] <davecheney> but I don't think go can even look at that
[07:44] <wrtp> davecheney: could you do an ls -ltR of $GOROOT and $GOPATH
[07:45] <davecheney> u want it all ?
[07:45] <wrtp> davecheney: i reckon. it won't be much gzipped and it's easier than just picking out the bits we need.
[07:45] <wrtp> davecheney: in fact, don't worry about the -t bit
[07:45] <wrtp> davecheney: better in alphabetical order
[07:46] <wrtp> davecheney: if you could make it print the times in unix format, that would be better too
[07:46] <davecheney> wrtp: i'll do it after dinner
[07:46] <wrtp> davecheney: as numeric timestamps, i mean. i can't remember the option (if there is one)
[07:46] <wrtp> davecheney: cool.
[07:46] <davecheney> trying to finish up and send off my email
[07:46] <davecheney> to see if I can get some review time with gustavo
[07:46] <wrtp> davecheney: i've been waiting for the opportunity to arise again
[07:47] <davecheney> trying to avoid another setconfig by keeping the changeset as small as possible
[07:55] <davecheney> wrtp: bloody lbox, you can't add -req if you've already proposed, even in -wip
[07:55] <wrtp> davecheney: no, it's a pain
[07:55] <davecheney> reqs are a pain, full stop
[07:55] <wrtp> davecheney: it's not lbox, it's launchpad
[07:55]  * davecheney shakes fist at lp
[07:55] <wrtp> davecheney: you can't change the prereq of a merge
[07:56] <davecheney> and you can't have more than on prereq O_o!
[07:56] <wrtp> davecheney: you'll have to delete the merge request
[07:56] <davecheney> s/on/one
[07:56] <wrtp> davecheney: yeah, that too
[07:56] <davecheney> DVCS for the fail
[07:56] <davecheney> anyway, this is just end of day whinging
[07:56] <wrtp> davecheney: lp is not the greatest
[07:59] <davecheney> fwereade: // InstanceId returns the provider specific identifier for this machine. If no id has been asssinged by the provider, this value will be blank.
[07:59] <fwereade> davecheney, SGTM
[08:00] <davecheney> and it just panics if there is crap in the config node
[08:00] <davecheney> actually, i'm not going to do this today, i'm going to call it an evening
[08:00] <davecheney> it's 6pm
[08:00] <fwereade> davecheney, yeah, have a rest
[08:00] <davecheney> fwereade: but i'll address that first thing tomorrow
[08:01] <davecheney> later lads
[08:01] <fwereade> davecheney, not 100% sure about panicing
[08:01] <fwereade> davecheney, take care
[08:05] <TheMue> Morning, and good night davecheney
[08:20] <fwereade> heya TheMue :)
[08:21] <TheMue> fwereade: Moin
[08:37] <wrtp> davecheney: see ya
[08:59] <niemeyer> Good mornings!
[09:18] <fwereade> heya niemeyer
[09:40] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yo!
[09:51] <niemeyer> Hey guys
[09:57] <niemeyer> fwereade: LGTM on charm-store-backend
[09:57] <niemeyer> fwereade: Good stuff
[09:58] <TheMue> niemeyer <- themue.moin()
[09:58] <fwereade> niemeyer, thanks :)
[09:58] <niemeyer> TheMue: Moin :)
[10:01] <rogpeppe> TheMue: i've been looking at doing the machine provider, and i realise that we haven't got a unit watcher yet. have you looked at that at all?
[10:02] <rogpeppe> s/machine provider/machine agent/
[10:04] <TheMue> rogpeppe: You mean the watcher returned by watch_service_unit_state in the py code?
[10:04] <rogpeppe> TheMue: i think so
[10:04]  * rogpeppe checks
[10:05] <TheMue> rogpeppe: If so then yes, it's a not yet covered watcher.
[10:05] <Aram> morning.
[10:06] <rogpeppe> Aram: heya
[10:06] <TheMue> Aram: Moin.
[10:06] <fwereade> Aram, heyhey
[10:09] <rogpeppe> TheMue: actually the one i need is MachineState.watch_assigned_units
[10:10] <TheMue> rogpeppe: That's also an open watcher. Machine is so far very small.
[10:11] <rogpeppe> TheMue: i could do it assuming you're currently working on something else.
[10:11] <TheMue> rogpeppe: Currently I'm working on State.AddRelation() (redesign after review). Then I can do the watcher.
[10:11] <TheMue> rogpeppe: Oh, if you would like to then thank you.
[10:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade: do you know if it's possible to have two units on the same machine using the same charm? by my very coarse reading, it looks like it might be possible and that it could cause problems.
[10:37] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ^
[10:41] <fwereade> rogpeppe, expand a little please... I can't think of an obvious way to do so, but there probably is one
[10:42] <fwereade> rogpeppe, and it depends on the problems... is it the known will-try-to-use-same-ports deal, or something else that's worrying you?
[10:42] <rogpeppe> fwereade: we could have two subordinate services with different service names but using the same charm, right?
[10:42] <rogpeppe> fwereade: it's the shared directory that concerns me
[10:42] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: The same *charm* in the same machine? Of course
[10:42] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hmm, ok, I haven't looked into subordinates in details... I *thought* distinct units got distinct dirs
[10:43] <fwereade> rogpeppe, and wil therefore have 2 copies of the charm
[10:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it looks to me like a given charm will always be stored in the same directory, regardless of the service
[10:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That's bogus
[10:43] <fwereade> rogpeppe, that said I have occasionally spotted and fixed bugs along those lines so there could well be more I missed
[10:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yeah, i think so. i may be wrong though.
[10:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If you mean expanded in the same directory, that is
[10:43] <fwereade> rogpeppe, are you sure the charm isn't expanded to a unit-specific dir?
[10:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yes i do. or at least, that's how it looks.
[10:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade: no :-)
[10:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If different service units are living in the same directory, that's a bug
[10:44] <fwereade> rogpeppe, do you have a reference in the python?
[10:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade: unit/deploy.py
[10:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade: download_charm
[10:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade: charms_directory is always $units_directory/charms
[10:45] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hmm, yeah, looks like crack to me
[10:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ok, thanks
[10:45] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: service unit != charm, FWIW
[10:45] <fwereade> rogpeppe, niemeyer: one thought: why is the machine agent responsible for this in the first place?
[10:45] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yeah, i thought so
[10:46] <niemeyer> fwereade: Probably historical, before we had subordinates
[10:46] <fwereade> rogpeppe, niemeyer: it's always seemed odd to me that we have duplicated code for getting and unpacking charms in unit/machine agents
[10:46] <niemeyer> fwereade: Might make sense to have the unit doing it
[10:46] <fwereade> niemeyer, +1
[10:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yeah, perhaps the unit agent should unpack all charms
[10:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade: which makes the machine agent simpler, which sounds good to me right now :-)
[10:47] <fwereade> rogpeppe, cool :)
[10:48] <rogpeppe> fwereade: while you're here...
[10:48] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah?
[10:48] <rogpeppe> fwereade: in agents/machine.py, it looks to me like service_state_manager is never used. am i missing something superclassy?
[10:49]  * fwereade looks
[10:50] <fwereade> rogpeppe, can't see any usage of it, can't see any reason to need it in the first place
[10:50] <rogpeppe> fwereade: thanks
[11:26] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i think we've said that we want to build in upgrade from the beginning. is there a plan of how to do that, in particular how we want to tell the agents to upgrade themselves?
[11:49] <fwereade> rogpeppe, do you recall any relevant details re plans for the dummy environ's zookeeper?
[11:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: more or less
[11:50] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I think I need that soonish, so anything yu can transfer would be good
[11:50] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'll just have a peek to remind myself
[11:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade: the idea is to start a zookeeper if the zookeeper attribute in the config is true
[11:52] <rogpeppe> fwereade: it'll only happen the first time that an environ of the given name is opened, but that seems right to me
[11:52] <fwereade> rogpeppe, the issue is that I'm pretty sure we don't want to start a new zookeeper every time we need a dummy environ for tests
[11:52] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hm, I must be missing something
[11:52]  * fwereade looks again
[11:53] <rogpeppe> fwereade: that's fine - don't set the zookeeper attr to true in those cases.
[11:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I mean I think we'll want to share zookeepers... won;t we?
[11:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade: hmm. that's potentially awkward, but should be doable
[11:54] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I guess what I was really asking is "this feels awkward but necessary, has someone already come up with a nice plan?"
[11:55] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i think it can all be done inside dummy with no visibility outside. i'd have a global instance that's used/started for the first zk after any Reset.
[11:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: (if someone opens two dummy environs at the same time, we don't want them to share zks)
[11:57] <rogpeppe> fwereade: alternatively... we could just keep all zk instances around. probably simpler now i come to think of it.
[11:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I fret that shutting them down will become complex
[11:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i don't think that's too hard. we'd need to provide a Shutdown method or something.
[11:59] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and we'd need to implement state.Close to return any zk instance that the state is using to the unused pool
[11:59] <fwereade> rogpeppe, it's knowing when to call it that's the problem
[11:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Nothing written down yet, but it's time to talk about it indeed
[11:59]  * niemeyer has to switch rooms
[11:59] <niemeyer> brb
[12:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade: all in all i doubt that it should take more than about 30 lines of code
[12:00] <fwereade> rogpeppe, hmm, actually, the existing model where we start up a shared ZK per test package may be a good way to go... we just need to inform the dummy environ of it at some point
[12:01] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I'm not too bothered about starting multiple dummy environs at the same time... what's the use case?
[12:01] <rogpeppe> fwereade: we do that in some places, but those cases probably don't need zk
[12:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade: a panic if it happened would probably be fine.
[12:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade: that's nicely simpler actually.
[12:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade: then Reset can remove everything from the dummy's zk
[12:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade: or maybe the tests should do that, i dunno
[12:03] <fwereade> rogpeppe, probably one for the tests, but not sure... and, hmm, bootstrap can Initialize state, now I think of it :)
[12:04] <fwereade> rogpeppe, if zookeeper is set, that is
[12:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i think i like the idea of handing off the server to the dummy environ
[12:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade: dummy.SetZookeeper(*zookeeper.Server) perhaps
[12:05] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah
[12:05] <rogpeppe> dummy.SetZookeeper(testing.StartZkServer()) seems nice
[12:06] <rogpeppe> fwereade: then, yeah, have dummy.Reset do the ZkRemoveTree
[12:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and have dummy.environConfig.Open check, if cfg.zookeeper is true, that we're not creating a new state.
[12:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and panic otherwise
[12:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: or actually it can return an error
[12:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, sounds like a plan, I'll see what I can do
[12:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: sounds good. thanks.
[12:45] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: lsb_release prints n/a when it can't find the current release
[12:45] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: The test still looks bogus.. why is it conflating an error with a return of a value
[12:46] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Or do I misunderstand it?
[12:46] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it means the test will still run successfully even on a non-ubuntu platform
[12:46] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: or a platform where lsb_release doesn't exist
[12:47] <Aram> rogpeppe: is what you are doing now related to what I asked you yesterday about hardcoding CurrentSeries and CurrentArch?
[12:47] <rogpeppe> Aram: yes
[12:47] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Ok, looks good then
[12:48] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: A comment would be nice
[12:48] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: thanks. and thanks for the review. will do a comment.
[12:49] <Aram> rogpeppe: maybe I'm misunderstanding something fundamental, but where do you want to run lsb_release?
[12:49] <rogpeppe> Aram: in the test. to make sure my parsing of /etc/lsb-release is sane.
[12:50] <rogpeppe> Aram: see https://codereview.appspot.com/6260048/diff/2001/environs/tools_test.go#newcode276
[12:50] <Aram> ah, ok.
[12:50] <Aram> in the test makes sense.
[12:50] <Aram> but then we can't run the test on every platform.
[12:51] <rogpeppe> Aram: we can. and that's the point.
[12:51] <Aram> ok, let me look at the patch.
[12:51] <rogpeppe> Aram: that was what we were just discussing
[12:52] <Aram> so the test runs without lsb_release, but its utility is reduced if lsb_release does not exist.
[12:53] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: rather than full-blown unquote, i'm doing strings.Trim(line[len(p):], ` \t'"`) which should be sufficient i think
[12:53] <rogpeppe> Aram: yeah
[12:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Yeah, sounds good
[12:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Thanks
[12:56] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i wouldn't mind leaving the "current Ubuntu release name" in. i remember being a little confused when i came across "series" being used all over the place in the charm packages, and didn't realise it was a synonym for "ubuntu release". if we're going to have a comment anywhere, perhaps this is a good place.
[12:56] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it doesn't appear to be a commonly used term even in the ubuntu community
[12:57] <rogpeppe> s/ in./ comment in./
[12:57] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I'm not sure.. the whole code base trusts on the term
[12:57] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That doesn't look like a special instance of it
[12:58] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yes, but nowhere do we actually say what it is.
[12:58] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: as far as i've seen
[12:58] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: this at least will show if someone does a recursive grep for Series
[12:58] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: My point is that this isn't a special place.. there are tons of places one will not understand, and this isn't documenting them
[12:59] <Aram> rogpeppe: why not copy some known existing lsb-release files and test against those, that way the test is meaningful on every platform?
[12:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: But sure, I don't mind too much either
[12:59] <Aram> and that way you don't need to care about lsb_release at all.
[12:59] <niemeyer> Aram: It is doing that
[12:59] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it's reasonably special i think. it's actually the only place AFAIK that connects the actual running release with the term.
[13:00] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Nevermind.. comments is great, thank you
[13:00] <rogpeppe> Aram: i did that. i could do with a few more samples though. feel free to add to the tests table.
[13:00] <Aram> oh.
[13:00] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: thanks :-)
[13:00]  * Aram finds Rietveld hard to read.
[13:02]  * rogpeppe actually made up the quantal lsb-release contents BTW
[13:08] <rogpeppe> ha, of course the tests fail when CurrentSeries="unknown" anyway
[13:13] <rogpeppe> hmm, just saw this:
[13:13] <rogpeppe> runtime: signal received on thread not created by Go.
[13:13] <rogpeppe> FAIL	launchpad.net/juju/go/state	8.131s
[13:14] <rogpeppe> that's a little worrying
[13:15] <rogpeppe> can't reproduce though
[13:21] <Aram> probably from zookeeper?
[13:35] <TheMue> Ah, redesign looks nicer and builds, now adopt to tests.
[13:56] <niemeyer> Aram: Probably.. which means we'll solve it as a side effect, hopefully
[14:04] <niemeyer> Aram: Are you up to come on Thursday still?
[14:08] <Aram> niemeyer: I am not sure... I'd like to. I haven't heard anything from BTS though, I don't know what that means.
[14:08] <niemeyer> Aram: They've returned to me this morning
[14:08] <niemeyer> Aram: and we got approval just now
[14:09] <niemeyer> Aram: I've asked for a second option, though
[14:09] <niemeyer> Aram: Since the option they gave was coming early Thursday and returning early Friday
[14:09] <niemeyer> Aram: If you're returning early friday, may as well stay for the day
[14:09] <Aram> indeed.
[14:10] <Aram> early thursday -> late friday would be prefereable.
[14:11] <niemeyer> Aram: That's what I asked for.. let's see if they return and I'll put you back on the loop with a +1
[14:12] <Aram> ok, assuming the feedback is positive, what's the plan? who buys the tickets, me or the company?
[14:12] <Aram> hi robbiew.
[14:12] <robbiew> Aram: hey! :)
[14:12] <robbiew> Aram: company buys the tickets.../me assumes he knows what this conversation is about
[14:13] <Aram> ok :).
[14:15] <niemeyer> robbiew: Yes :)
[14:15] <niemeyer> Aram: The agency will sort out for it
[15:08] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: would it be good for me to come down too, if Aram makes it over?
[15:09] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I'm not entirely sure.. let's see how the sprint here looks like
[15:09] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Let's sync up on that again tomorrow
[15:09] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: k
[15:16] <Aram> I believe I'm just waiting for the e-ticket confirmation now.
[15:19] <Aram> rogpeppe: do you happen to know if Maestro cards work in the UK?
[15:20] <Aram> work as in "being widespread", I'm sure if I try hard enough I'll find ATMs.
[15:20] <rogpeppe> Aram: probably.
[15:20] <rogpeppe> Aram: it's mastercard, right?
[15:21] <Aram> not really. it's owned by mastercard, but it's a different product.
[15:21] <Aram> here in austria mastercard is the only widespread card that works. good luck with visa/mastercard.
[15:21] <Aram> almost nobody accepts them,
[15:21] <Aram> s/mastercard/maestro/
[15:21] <Aram> meh
[15:21] <Aram> I'll rephrase :)
[15:22] <Aram> here in austria *maestro* is the only widespread card that works. good luck with visa/mastercard.
[15:23] <rogpeppe> Aram: ah, i've never had any problems with visa. but then again i haven't spent any time in austria :-)
[15:28] <fwereade> Aram, fwiw I'm used to seeing maestro symbols on ATMs in the UK
[15:28] <Aram> greta
[15:28] <Aram> great
[15:40] <rogpeppe> fwereade: you've got a couple of reviews
[15:45] <fwereade> rogpeppe, sweet, tyvm
[16:03] <fwereade> gn all, need to be off promptly tonight
[16:03] <fwereade> take care :)
[16:15]  * Aram is away for an hour or so.
[16:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ok. gn.
[17:04]  * rogpeppe is done for the day. see you tomorrow...
[17:38]  * Aram back.
[18:08] <TheMue> niemeyer: Thx for LGTM, goes in now.
[18:20] <niemeyer> TheMue: Cheers!
[18:20] <niemeyer> and I really need some food now
[18:20] <niemeyer> I'll see you all later/tomorrow!
[18:21] <TheMue> niemeyer: Enjoy.
[19:00] <Aram> rogpeppe: do you use upas?
[19:15] <hazmat> rogpeppe, the extracted charm is separate for multiple units
[19:16] <hazmat> the download directory is the same as its merely a cache


[14:45] <pavlushka> zabir: o/
[17:55] <pavlushka> zaki: o/
[17:55] <zaki> hey pavlushka
[17:56] <pavlushka> zaki: you know zabir? was here till 11.17, lke a bot does not react
[17:58] <zaki> pavlushka, nah, never seen before
[17:59] <zaki> যা দেখলাম, সবাই এখানে একবার আসে শুধু ! :D
[17:59] <zaki> 2nd time rare
[17:59] <pavlushka> lol
[18:01] <pavlushka> zaki: এসে দেখে যে এটা ফেসবুক না অথবা হজ করার মত কোন কিছু হয়তোবা, একবার এসেই সম্পন্ন হয়ে যায়
[18:04] <zaki> welcome back zabir
[18:05] <zabir> স্বাগতম 😊
[18:05] <zaki> pavlushka, may be I was wrong , you too :p
[18:06] <pavlushka> zaki: আচ্ছা ঠিক আছে, তাহলে দুবার আসে :পি
[18:06] <zaki> zabir, I'm zaki from Chittagong
[18:08] <pavlushka> zaki: https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/33421/1..2
[18:09] <zaki> ah
[18:10] <zaki> pavlushka, it's verified now ?
[18:11] <pavlushka> zaki: not yet, need +2 and they will decide on which version they will publish it, current is 4.9, 4.10 kept postponding.
[18:12] <pavlushka> zaki: and need so much more work, it's just the start
[18:14] <pavlushka> oh Hello both zabir
[18:14] <pavlushka> and zabir_
[18:14] <zabir> botg me
[18:14] <zabir> both me
[18:15] <zaki> দুই দেহ এক আত্মা :p
[18:15] <zaki> সরি, দুই আই ডি এক মালিক
[18:15] <zabir_> :XD
[18:16] <zabir_> using in mobile and pc at a time, thats why
[18:17] <pavlushka> zabir: which one is which?
[18:17] <pavlushka> zabir_  ?
[18:17] <zabir_> _is pc
[18:18] <pavlushka> zabir_: So what's up?
[18:19] <zaki> pavlushka, I just signed in there with my lunchpad profile
[18:19] <pavlushka> zaki: wow, এই কাজ করার জন্য আমাকে vi/vim শিখতে হচ্ছে
[18:20] <zaki> zabir, do I need to say some greetings again? :P
[18:21] <pavlushka> zaki: peculiar একটা জিনিস, কিন্তু মজার ব্যাটার হচ্ছে 16MB memory router এও vi সাপোর্ট থাকে
[18:21] <zaki> pavlushka, only vi works there ?
[18:22] <zabir> wait I missed may be, I'm new to IRC, just started yesterday. Hi to everyone :]
[18:23] <pavlushka> patch comment করা লাগে, এবং শাস্ত্র মতে, মন্তব্যেরও ঠিক জায়গায় ঠিক tag দেওয়া লাগে, নাহলে bot বাবাজি ঘ্যাচাং করে দেয়
[18:24] <zabir> :}
[18:24] <pavlushka> zabir: what's up?
[18:24] <pavlushka> zaki: আর সেই patch comment vi দিয়ে করা লাগে
[18:25] <zabir> Good. What about you?
[18:25] <pavlushka> pavlushka: good
[18:25] <zaki> aha
[18:26] <zaki> ওরা হিটলার
[18:26] <pavlushka> zaki: vi এ লিখতেই ঘাম ছুটে যায়, typo হলে তো কথাই নেই
[18:26] <zaki> pavlushka, I remember the 1st time :3
[18:28] <zaki> zabir, so are you happy with your OS ? :D
[18:28] <zaki> মনের মিল কেমন? :P
[18:28] <zabir> yes
[18:30] <zabir> but sometimes got disappointed , cause miss many wndows apps :{
[18:31] <zabir> which distro you guys are using
[18:34]  * pavlushka on Parabola/Ubuntu-mate dual boot on one machine, Parabola/Ubuntu-mate/Windows triple boot on the other
[18:34] <zaki> pavlushka, http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2017/05/29/trapped/
[18:34] <u-la-la> [ Trapped | CommitStrip ] - www.commitstrip.com ( https://tinyurl.com/y4jr6ckh )
[18:35]  * zaki Ubuntu 18.4
[18:36] <zabir> nice. I completely moved to linux. Not touching windows completely for almost 1.5 or more year
[18:36] <pavlushka> rofl on the commitstrip post
[18:37] <pavlushka> zabir: cool
[18:37]  * pavlushka on switches to windows to port twrp recoveries for androids.
[18:38] <pavlushka> s/on/only
[18:38] <u-la-la> pavlushka meant to say: only switches to windows to port twrp recoveries for androids.
[18:39] <zaki> pavlushka, rolling on floor with lemon? :P
[18:39] <pavlushka> lol
[18:39] <zabir> That's what I said, linux has many lack of apps. :{ sometimes some have linux verrsion but with less feature
[18:41] <zaki> pavlushka, I miss plasma desktop
[18:42] <pavlushka> zaki: why? you can still use it!
[18:42] <zaki> ভাল লাগেনা বাট মিস করি !!  pavlushka :3
[18:42] <pavlushka> zaki: Oh, and my desktops are Frankensteins, not a pure desktop in any manner
[18:43] <zabir> how
[18:43] <pavlushka> one has a DM and the other don't
[18:44] <pavlushka> zabir: its a mix mode, mate DE but with no DM and the window manager is sometimes openbox, sometimes fluxbox
[18:45] <pavlushka> DM means lightdm, lxdm, mddm or gdm
[18:45] <zabir> I good one's PSW unit fried may be , can't unplug it by myself. Now runing on a 'thelagari'
[18:45] <pavlushka> zabir: thelagari??
[18:46] <zaki> he he
[18:46] <zabir> pavulshka  I meant how it is frankensteins
[18:46] <zaki> zabir, its frankensteins frankensteins :P
[18:46] <zaki> I get it
[18:47] <pavlushka> zabir: that kind of mixture is termed as Frankenstein
[18:47] <zabir> thelagari=pushcart
[18:47] <pavlushka> oh
[18:47] <zabir> XD
[18:49] <pavlushka> oh and the term Frankenstein for this situ is not coined by me, I learned it from somewhere else while querying issues for my desktop
[18:50] <pavlushka> they said, oh so you have a Frankenstein desktop?
[18:51] <zabir> 😭
[18:51]  * zaki laughing on the floor with lemon
[18:52] <pavlushka> zaki: its rofl, rolling on the floor with laughter
[18:52] <zaki> he he
[18:53] <pavlushka> but this one was more funny, I don't know why
[18:53] <pavlushka> lofl
[18:53]  * pavlushka laughing on the floor with lemon
[18:54] <pavlushka> why one would laugh on the floor with lemon, may be stepped on it and slipped?
[18:55] <pavlushka> and then laughing as lying on the floor, that makes sense
[18:56] <pavlushka> lofl
[18:56] <zaki> pavlushka, genius guess :p
[18:57] <zaki> pavlushka, I tried OpenWrt on a ASUS router last wk, It's good
[18:59] <zabir> asus merlin firmwire looks so nice
[19:01] <zaki> zabir, yea, they are giving it to every new router now
[19:02] <zabir> I wanted to used open wrt :{ but my router doesnt't support it
[19:03] <zaki> I hate there old firmware
[19:03] <zaki> ah
[19:03] <zaki> there is other firmware like DDWrt
[19:03] <zabir> yes
[19:03] <pavlushka> zaki: zabir I bough lenovo x230 to put coreboot because it is supported
[19:04] <zabir> but I dont like it, also there is 'tomatto' firmware too
[19:04] <pavlushka> zabir: zaki so before you buy a device, check if it supports the tweaks or the firmware you want to put in it.
[19:05] <pavlushka> s/bough/bought
[19:05] <u-la-la> pavlushka meant to say: zaki: zabir I bought lenovo x230 to put coreboot because it is supported
[19:05] <zaki> pavlushka, x230 is good
[19:05] <pavlushka> zaki: to me, hell yes.
[19:06] <zabir> Yes, true. I told one of my friend to buy a routher for me, and he brought it. I was sick that time.
[19:06] <zaki> pavlushka, I tried OpenWrt cuse builtin firmware has so much issues
[19:06] <zabir> I heard that Merlin Firmwire has security issues
[19:07] <zabir> But it looks nice
[19:07] <zaki> pavlushka, 3rd gen?
[19:08] <pavlushka> zaki: well you can build the openwrt or some other free firmware for your machine
[19:08]  * pavlushka dreams about cross-compiling
[19:08] <pavlushka> to the required size
[19:09] <zaki> pavlushka, OpenWRT working well  for me . you ment this for zabir ? :P
[19:09] <zabir> It has some interesting news: https://routersecurity.org
[19:09] <u-la-la> [ Router Security ] - routersecurity.org ( https://tinyurl.com/y6zbcjdq )
[19:09] <pavlushka> once I tried the same for my 16 MB router and got that advice but wasn't smart enough to apply it
[19:10] <pavlushka> zabir: now may be I can try but it is a hell of a job
[19:15] <zaki> pavlushka, zabir, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk
[19:15] <u-la-la> [ Earth, Wind & Fire - September (Official Music Video) - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com ( https://tinyurl.com/jw6pqyj )
[19:15] <zaki> a little gift :P
[19:17] <zabir> is u-la-la a bot?
[19:17] <zabir> I found everywhere Chanserve, who is he
[19:18] <zaki> ChanServ, is here too
[19:19] <zaki> u-la-la, is ChanServ sister :P
[19:19] <zaki> pavlushka, made it
[19:20] <zabir> o
[19:20] <pavlushka> zaki: জি প্রাচীন মানবদের উৎপত্তি আফ্রিকাতেই হয়েছিল, চোয়াল আর দাঁতগুলো দেখেছেন পারফর্মারদের?
[19:22] <zaki> he he
[19:22] <pavlushka> Its my fav singer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1aXFKhFUE
[19:22] <u-la-la> [ Alanis Morissette - Lens - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com ( https://tinyurl.com/yykjxxcl )
[19:22] <zaki> pavlushka, I miss asking QA for rusks :D it was fun
[19:23] <pavlushka> zaki: QA is in #ubuntu-africa, #ubuntu-za !
[19:24] <pavlushka> zaki: chanserv is the global OP bot, almost every irc network has it
[19:24] <pavlushka> zabir: ^^
[19:25] <pavlushka> on almost every channel
[19:25] <zaki> pavlushka, should I go there and ask for rusks ? I know it's on top of a fridge :D
[19:25] <pavlushka> lofl
[19:25] <zabir> o
[19:27] <zaki> zabir, how is the name u-la-la !? :P
[19:28] <zabir> lol
[19:29] <zaki> pavlushka, Brainstorm still give me earthquake update on twitter
[19:30] <pavlushka> zaki: thats what it is for :)
[19:30] <zaki> thanks to LjL
[19:30] <pavlushka> zaki: Brainstorm can do so much more
[19:33] <zaki> zabir, working on something ?
[19:34] <zaki> pavlushka, you remember Tareq
[19:34] <pavlushka> zaki: yes, why?
[19:34] <zaki> EEE teacher at DIU
[19:35] <zaki> I added him on FB last year
[19:36] <zaki> now he is a top Bengali film fan
[19:37] <zaki> may be he go to FDC almost everyday
[19:37] <zaki> and post photo with Moushumi and Omorsani everyday
[19:38] <zaki> I can't mach
[19:38] <zaki> match*
[19:52] <zaki> pavlushka, https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/man-pledges-to-try-just-one-more-desktop-theme/
[19:52] <u-la-la> [ Man Pledges to Try Just One More Desktop Theme ] - www.sudosatirical.com ( https://tinyurl.com/y3upllbq )
[19:57] <zaki> zabir, https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/local-man-reconsidering-relationship-finds-girlfriend-using-nano/
[19:57] <u-la-la> [ Local Man Seriously Reconsidering Relationship After Finding Girlfriend Using Nano ] - www.sudosatirical.com ( https://tinyurl.com/y3vt5k98 )
[19:57] <zaki> this one for you :D
[19:57] <zaki> Good Night


[07:32] <superfly> thanks niko!
[08:28] <Kilos> greetings everyone
[08:28] <Kilos> :D
[08:32] <Unit193> Howdy.
[08:32] <Unit193> Kilos (~miles@ubuntu/member/kilos)  Congrats.
[08:32] <Kilos> woooot ty Unit193
[08:32] <Kilos> ty for the help
[08:33] <Unit193> Sure.
[08:35] <Kilos> my other mission is way way more work
[08:35] <Kilos> maybe gonna have to bend some rules or make new ones
[09:37] <inetpro> hmm


[01:02] <rob__> hello, does apache come installed on 7.04?
[01:03] <nalioth> rob__: it does not
[01:03] <nalioth> rob__: have you looked at the repository structure?
[01:03] <rob__> found you :D
[01:03] <nalioth> !multiverse
[01:03] <ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See also !EasySource
[01:03] <rob__> ok, i'm trying to get a local copy of an old website up.
[01:03] <rob__> it uses apache 2.0.54
[01:03] <nalioth> rob__: well, we don't install from source in Ubuntu unless there's a specific need for it
[01:04] <nalioth> !info apache
[01:04] <ubotu> apache: versatile, high-performance HTTP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.34-4.1 (feisty), package size 384 kB, installed size 816 kB
[01:04] <nalioth> looks like you're living in the future
[01:05] <rob__> i don't understand
[01:05] <nalioth> the apache that comes with feisty, is version 1.3.34-4.1
[01:05] <rob__> hmmm, that's old, isn't it?
[01:06] <rob__> maybe i've got the version wrong.  i'll check apache.org
[01:09] <rob__> ok, any reason i can't install 2.0.54 on feisty?
[01:15] <nalioth> rob__: not really any reason not to
[01:16] <rob__> maybe i should ask in #apache instead? (i'm pretty new to irc, too!)
[01:18] <nalioth> no, you can ask here
[01:19] <nalioth> do you have all your repos set up?
[01:21] <neversfelde> the package apache2 is version 2.2.3-3.2
[01:21] <neversfelde> apache is 1.3.34
[01:22] <nalioth> aha
[01:22] <nalioth> rob__: there ya go
[01:23] <rob__> where??
[01:23] <nalioth> rob__: again, do you have universe and multiverse repositories set up?
[01:23] <rob__> feisty comes with 1.x, repository offers 2.2.x; i (think) i want 2.0.54
[01:24] <rob__> i think so, it did a big update.  i'll double check.
[01:25] <rob__> on the Synaptic software sources "Ubuntu" tab, everything is checked.
[01:26] <nalioth> the web site won't work at all with 2.2x ?
[01:27] <rob__> I'm not sure, there are several components
[01:28] <rob__> it's more of a web application... python scripts, postgresql backend, etc.
[01:28] <rob__> i haven't installed the other parts yet
[01:28] <nalioth> why not install the apache2 we offer and see?
[01:29] <rob__> i can try, at least i should succeed with the apache install, right?
[01:29] <rob__> go through Synaptic?
[01:29] <nalioth> rob__: yes, use synaptic
[01:30] <nalioth> there is almost no need at all to compile stuff


[16:44] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:44] <mdeslaur> hi!
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> hi
[16:44] <jjohansen> \o
[16:45] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:45] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:45] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug  4 16:45:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:45] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:45] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:45] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:45] <jdstrand> Thanks to the following people for their help on security updates for these community supported packages last week:
[16:45] <jdstrand> Mike Heald (jedimike) provided a debdiff for precise for nss-pam-ldapd (LP: #1347614)
[16:45] <jdstrand> Julian Taylor (jtaylor) provided a debdiff for precise for ipython (LP: #1344854)
[16:45] <jdstrand> Stefan Bader (smb) provided a precise package for xen
[16:45] <jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[16:45] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:46] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:46] <jdstrand> this morning I finally managed to have no open items in the hr system (ie, perf reviews are done)
[16:47] <jdstrand> so this week I'll help with apparmor testing and landing
[16:47] <jdstrand> I'm on triage
[16:47] <jdstrand> and I have a bunch of pending updates (openjdk, openstack)
[16:47] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:48] <mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing some updates
[16:48] <mdeslaur> and have more pending
[16:48] <mdeslaur> and will be going down the list some more...I want to clear out the list as much as possible before I go on vacation on the 20th
[16:48] <mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
[16:48] <mdeslaur> am currently sponsoring an update for Riddell
[16:48] <mdeslaur> that's about it
[16:49] <mdeslaur> sbeattie isn't here...who's after him? tyhicks?
[16:49] <tyhicks> I think so
[16:49] <jdstrand> yes
[16:49] <tyhicks> I'm still plugging away at the versioned parser patches
[16:49] <tyhicks> after thinking about what will be needed to do it from kernel postinst, I realized that I need to make some changes
[16:50] <tyhicks> however, I'm about to put that aside and do a few updates to the apparmor Ubuntu package in prep for landing the abstract socket changes
[16:50] <mdeslaur> \o/
[16:50] <tyhicks> (we've gathered a few small changes, in addition to abstract socket mediation, that we wanted to lump into the same update)
[16:51] <tyhicks> if I have any extra time, there have been a few ecryptfs-utils bugs that should get some attention
[16:51]  * jdstrand wouldn't count on extra time this particular week
[16:51] <jdstrand> :)
[16:51] <tyhicks> agreed :)
[16:51] <jdstrand> maybe friday :)
[16:51] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:51] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:53] <jjohansen> I will be pulling my hair out,^W^W^W^W err working on apparmor abstract socket mediation this week
[16:53] <jjohansen> the latest iteration of the kernel is in the usual place, http://people.canonical.com/~jj/linux-image-3.15.0-6-generic_3.15.0-6.95+jj_amd64.deb
[16:53] <jjohansen> and another iteration is building
[16:54] <jjohansen> I still have a few changes to the parser to finish up to match the latest kernel as out of band transitions will not land with this
[16:55] <jjohansen> I expect to be iterating, this stuff and testing and helping with policy until we land this mess
[16:56]  * jjohansen is in the process of getting the kernel patch together for sarnold, and anyone else who wants to gouge their eyes out
[16:56] <jjohansen> and the parser patches will follow later today
[16:58]  * sarnold passes around the mellon ballers
[16:58] <jjohansen> that is it for me, sarnold your up
[17:00] <sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, I've got some outstanding MIR reviews and another merge from tvoss for trust store to review -- presumably some apparmor patches to review too :) I suspect the apparmor patches alone would be enough to fill the week
[17:00] <jjohansen> sarnold: I'm glab you can call this your happy place ;)
[17:01] <sarnold> jjohansen: heh, compared to 70-odd CVEs to triage, it feels pretty happy :)
[17:01] <sarnold> tvoss's C++ is like reading urdu poetry -- I know it's beautiful but I just can't understand the language :D
[17:02] <sarnold> anyway, that's me, chrisccoulson?
[17:02] <jdstrand> sarnold: hehe
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> so, good news! I tested chromium 36 this morning
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> the bad news is that it crashes at startup on precise
[17:04] <mdeslaur> \o/...oh wait, /o\
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> so, at some point, that will be going out (once chad has fixed it)
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> I've also got some reviews to do for oxide
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll be working through my RTM bugs
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> that's me done :)
[17:05] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: anything big for rtm?
[17:06] <jdstrand> re 36> \o/
[17:06] <jdstrand> :P
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.tag=rtm14
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> some of those need dropping off there actually
[17:07] <mdeslaur> ah, so just a couple of minor things I see :)

[17:09] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: feel free to remove the rtm14 tag from the medium ones
[17:09] <chrisccoulson> sure, will do
[17:09] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: the way that critical and high are being handled is critical means we can't ship without it, high is we really want to ship with it but can provide an ota update
[17:10] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that makes sense
[17:10] <jdstrand> not sure the current priorities match that. might be worth discussing in the next oxide meeting
[17:11] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:11] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[17:11] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[17:11] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/fwsnort.html
[17:12] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-sabredav.html
[17:12] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bip.html
[17:12] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gamera.html
[17:12] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-net-ldap.html
[17:12] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:12] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:12] <tangim> is there any kdeconnect allernative for unity??
[17:12] <jdstrand> tangim: I think you might want #ubuntu-user
[17:13] <tangim> umm...i don't know diffrence between ubuntu-meeting, ubuntu-on-air and ubuntu-user :(
[17:14] <jdstrand> tangim: see the /topic for each. this is a place where teams have meetings, not a general support forum
[17:15] <tangim> oh...thanks :)
[17:16] <jdstrand> np
[17:17] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
[17:17] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug  4 17:17:24 2014 UTC.
[17:17] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-04-16.45.moin.txt
[17:17] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[17:17] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[17:17] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[17:17] <tyhicks> thanks
[17:19] <tangim> jdstrand: only me in #ubuntu-user :o
[17:21] <jdstrand> tangim: sorry, #ubuntu-users
[17:26] <tangim> oh
[17:26] <tangim> thanks :)


[06:32] <astraljava> diogenes_: It will not open a new session, when I log back in I have all my apps there as they were. I'm aware of xscreensaver, used it before but thought to try out the default ones with 19.10 now. :)
[06:34] <astraljava> Wonder what the "relative apps" QuarxSiO2 was referring to are.
[06:36] <diogenes_> astraljava, do you have 'save session' enabled?
[06:36] <astraljava> Hmm... good call, I'll check.
[06:37] <astraljava> diogenes_: No, I don't. So that helps, it's just light-locker then.
[06:38] <diogenes_> astraljava, light-locker is not so good so try a different screensaver.
[06:39] <astraljava> diogenes_: I guess I have to revert back to xscreensaver, then. I just hoped it had matured more during the years.
[06:39] <astraljava> I mean, I hoped light-locker had evolved more.
[06:41] <diogenes_> astraljava, afaik it's not even maintained anymore and it's 3rd party.
[06:41] <lighterowl> wow
[06:47] <astraljava> diogenes_: Oh, well, that changes everything. Why is it the default, still?
[06:48] <diogenes_> astraljava, not in 19.10 afaik.
[06:49] <astraljava> Hmm... wait a second.
[06:50] <astraljava> Oh, it's xflock4. That's a different app. I had mixed those. Pardon my ignorance and the noise caused. :)
[06:52] <diogenes_> xflock4 is just a script which takes as input any known screenlockers.
[06:52] <astraljava> So, then I know what's the culprit, or at least may be. Should I turn on the debug flags for xflock4 to find out what's causing the random lock up?
[06:52] <astraljava> Riiight, so I better read up on what goes on there. Cheers!
[07:00] <astraljava> As every other lock command is not installed, it has to use xfce4-screensaver-command.
[07:14] <furycd001> HI guys. I have a problem with conky & that whenever my desktop first loads conky has a balck background & everything overlaps & is totally unreadable. Anyone here any ideas ??
[07:15] <furycd001> Here's a link to my conf....  https://termbin.com/yr6c
[17:19] <astraljava> Damn, another problem. Display really messed up if HDMI cable yanked off while external monitor was active. Have to resort to lightdm restart. :/
[18:07] <zantak> Buona sera a tutti e grazie per l' aiuto che potrete darmi. Ho tolto di mezzo Win 7 a mio figlio sul suo HP Pavilion con un AMD Athlon a 32 bit e 2 giga di RAM; gli ho piazzato Xubuntu 18.4. Abbiamo solo ed esclusivamente una connessione wifi ed un iPhone che potrebbe fare tethering via USB. Io uso un po' il Terminale, ma su Mac. lspci mi dice che
[18:07] <zantak> a bordo c'è una Broadcom BCM4318 [Airforce One 54g] rev 02 su slot 03:02.0; Kernel driver b43-pci-bridge; Kernel Module ssb.
[18:08] <zantak> Continuo: ho provato di tutto, anche a collegarlo ad un android via usb e a fargli scaricare il driver b43 (oltre 500 mega di roba): niente da fare; il wifi non parte. E' come se l' antenna non ci fosse. Qualcuno sa come posso risolvere? Grazie
[18:09] <genii> !it
[18:09] <zantak> damn! Excuse me
[18:42] <zantak> scusate ma si è disconnesso tutto qui. Qualcuno per caso ha postato qualcosa?
[18:46] <tomreyn> that's still the wrong language, i'm afraid.
[18:47] <tomreyn> there are probably some italian speaking forums in case you can't get help in #ubuntu-it
[18:48] <xubuntu22w> Hello everyone.


[14:21] <satellitMac-6e06> this is Ubuntu 10.10 with ppa running sugar-emulator. this is upgraded IRC (today)


[10:51] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:04] <abbasdgr8> hi
[11:06] <abbasdgr8> If I download and install the "Ubuntu 13.10 daily build" on my system, is there a way where in I can upgrade to the official October release?
[11:24] <Touhou11> Can anyone update me on the status of Amazon spyware in future version of Ubuntu? Has anything changed since this was written: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks
[11:51] <k1l_> Touhou11: there are easy ways to disable the shopping lense (and other global searches) in the privacy settings in the system settings. and  you could still just remove the package . there is a wiki page which exactly states what infomration is send to the internet.
[11:52] <k1l_> and besides all that i still think spyware is the wrong wording for that. you dont call your browser spyware just because it sends data to the internet.
[12:00] <Touhou11> k1l_: The Amazon integration allows Canonical to know about my private searches, that's a definition of Spyware in my book. Stallman also agrees: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.html
[12:00] <Touhou11> k1l_: Defaults are important though - Ubuntu was typically recommended to novice users who won't realise the implications of their searching
[12:01] <k1l_> the intention behind a global search is not to spy on the users but to bring them a service.
[12:01] <Touhou11> k1l_: That's a bad comparison - even novices know visiting Google performs an internet search, you don't typically expect the same behaviour when searching ones own computer
[12:02] <Touhou11> k1l_: So being able to spy on users is just a side-effect?
[12:02] <IdleOne> if you know that a spy is spying he is not really a good spy. By definition spyware is hidden.
[12:02] <k1l_> Touhou11: that is your fault, that you still want a desktop search only to search local. it is labled with "global search"
[12:03] <IdleOne> There is nothing hidden about the online search functions in Unity. I agree it is not the best defaults, but stop spreading FUD please.
[12:04] <Touhou11> So the first time new user performs a global search, is there a warning first that any search sends results to Canonical and Amazon?
[12:04] <IdleOne> there is
[12:04] <IdleOne> first time you use the Dash
[12:04] <k1l_> Touhou11: ever used unity with the dash yourself?
[12:05] <k1l_> or are you just hopping on the shitstorm/FUD train?
[12:05] <Touhou11> Yes, but there was no warning at the time. And the inclusion of spyware in a Linux distro so shocked me that I changed to Fedora
[12:05] <Touhou11> I was hoping the decision had been revoked
[12:05] <IdleOne> Again it is not spyware
[12:05] <IdleOne> Stop calling it something it is not.
[12:05] <k1l_> Touhou11: ok, so the FUD did work. you switched because someone said "spyware"
[12:06] <Touhou11> k1l_: No, because I read the technical details of what gets send to Canonical and Amazon and decided it was spyware
[12:06] <Touhou11> External company knowing my local search terms = spyware, in my book
[12:06] <k1l_> Touhou11: that is a lie"
[12:06] <k1l_> !
[12:06] <IdleOne> you didn't even know if there was a "warning" but you read the specs
[12:07] <Touhou11> The EFF provide technical information about the feature
[12:07] <Touhou11> And it was widely discussed
[12:07] <k1l_> Touhou11: the time RMS made up the spyware thing was when 12.10 was still in development. when the final release was there were all privacy settings and the wiki site with the exact specs what is send
[12:07] <Touhou11> I trust the EFF enough that I didn't need to look at the code myself
[12:07] <IdleOne> the EFF didn't call it spyware. Stallman did and he was wrong.
[12:08] <Touhou11> Stallman has recently been proven right about quite a few issues, he's not known to make mistakes
[12:09] <IdleOne> I forgot he is a god.
[12:09] <k1l_> hmm ok. i wont discuss any further with a FUD hopper who praises rms :/
[12:09] <Touhou11> Also I found the comments from Mark Shuttleworth about "having root" alarming
[12:09] <k1l_> Touhou11: you realise redhat got root on fedora too?
[12:10] <IdleOne> of course you did, because you can't understand that it was meant as a cheaky comment. Essentially everytime you type in your user password and install a package from the canonical/ubuntu repos you are granting root to that package so it can install itself.
[12:10] <k1l_> you need to trust a distro you use. that is what mark said with the root comment
[12:10] <Touhou11> k1l_: Anyone knows that the repository maintainers are in a position of trust. It was the arrogant tone taken by Shuttleworth I found dismaying, given it came at the same time as introducing adware into a Linux distribution (a first, I think)
[12:11] <IdleOne> you're 1.5 years late on this troll
[12:11] <IdleOne> I'm done.
[12:12] <Touhou11> Are you genuinely not concerned that the introduciton of adware has harmed Ubuntu's standing in the FOSS community?
[12:12] <k1l_> Touhou11: ok. since you are a known troll in the #ubuntu* channels (aka SharkMuttleworth) i stop discussing with you.
[12:12] <k1l_> stop spreading FUD.
[12:12] <Touhou11> I've had disagreements with ikonia in the past if that's what you're referring to, where mod priviledges were abused
[12:13] <IdleOne> guess what
[12:13] <Touhou11> And because I didn't share his viewpoint I was kicked
[12:17] <Ian_Corne> Can I just add that theer's a privacy warning? :)
[12:18] <Ian_Corne> At least I remember getting one, maybe because I'm in europe
[12:22] <IdleOne> everybody gets the privacy warning
[12:22] <IdleOne> no matter what country they are in.
[12:23] <k1l_> yes, i dont know that there is a difference in the country you are in.
[12:26] <Ian_Corne> well then, no issue at all then!
[18:55] <catweazler> hi i got some problems with my telling bone
[18:56] <bazhang> !ot | catweazler
[23:26] <DredTiger> A couple of days ago I did a dist-upgrade to saucy from raring
[23:27] <DredTiger> One thing I immediately notices is that the application and file search lenses don't seem to be active
[23:28] <DredTiger> Has anyone else noticed anything like that? Does my description make any sense?
[23:36] <DredTiger> Anyone here?
[23:38] <wilee-nilee> DredTiger, couple of things here it would be raring to saucy and the dist-upgrade is a command to upgrade packages in a release, that can confuse issues, not sure on the problem, I always fresh install myself.