[23:49] <mpt> Just designed some boring error messages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwarePackageOperations#download-failed


[05:21] <zequence> zsyncing the ISO now. Still no change to ubiquity
[05:39] <zequence> Seems to install, and seems like everything is where it's supposed to be
[05:52] <zequence> Just realized the slideshow was still saying we include shotwell, so removed that
[06:19] <zequence> I'm not going to bother with this, so if someone else would like to fix this, be my guest. I'm about done with this cycle now.
[06:19] <zequence> Bug 1569697
[08:57] <cub> What was the channel for off topic?
[09:32] <sakrecoer> cub: #ubuntustudio-offtopic
[09:33] <sakrecoer> my tired eyes red 'zequencing the iso now'
[09:34] <sakrecoer> i think kryten had a fix but i also know he is busy elsewhere atm... i'll see if i can reach out and let him radiocontrol me :D
[09:35] <sakrecoer> re: bug 1569697
[15:24] <sakrecoer> i've got a few very insightfull hints from krytarik about the lightdm issues, but he lacks time to assist me in doing it.. i understand about 77% of what needs to be done... anyone want to join me in squashing the bug? :)
[15:25] <krytarik> sakrecoer: Huh?  I said it's not about *my* time - doing it right now.
[15:32] <sakrecoer> oh.. sorry, i missunderstood... not sure i grasp the difference.. however, i didn't mean to put a wrongfull light on you...
[16:12] <OvenWerks> checking new alsa-utils package. Some new QT5 stuff too.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> zequence: despite your email, the list of updates in the past few days is quite long :)
[16:29] <OvenWerks> though I do expect our changes will be low.
[16:31] <zequence> OvenWerks: Right, there may be some changes to the base stuff
[16:32] <zequence> But, nothing in particular to the multimedia stuff, I would think, other than subsystems and pulseaudio
[16:37] <zequence> OvenWerks: Did the alsa-utils thing get fixed?
[16:39] <OvenWerks> zequence: not sure yet, have to reboot again. The /run/alsa directory is still not there, but there is not a message about alsa in dmesg this time.
[16:40] <OvenWerks> zequence: the plymouth theme is much nicer. But on boot it goes by so fast as not to be seen :)
[17:02] <OvenWerks> zequence: alsa-utils is still not working. /run/alsa still does not exist.
[17:23] <OvenWerks> zequence: but then it did not exist in older versions than x either.
[17:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: alsa re/store has changed signifcantly from 14.04.
[17:29] <OvenWerks> even from early 16.04
[17:48] <OvenWerks> will try by manually creating /run/alsa.
[18:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: tried manually creating /run/alsa... vanishes on reboot.
[18:01] <sakrecoer> was about time i tried the gnome-software center :D completly passed me by somehow..
[18:09] <sakrecoer> (that would have been a good candidate for "favourites")
[18:09] <sakrecoer> good thing we kept greybird, the gnome window doesn't look to foreign next to it
[18:15] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: why would you put a software installer in favourites?
[18:17] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it gets high use... (well once use to install synaptic) right after install... after which it never gets used again.
[18:17] <zequence> Software should have been put in favorites. We could still do it, though it's not exactly a critical bugfix
[18:17] <OvenWerks> favourites should only have applications people use almost every time they use the computer
[18:18] <zequence> Well, software is likely one of those
[18:18] <zequence> ..not counting nerds like us
[18:18] <OvenWerks> not after the first few days.
[18:18] <zequence> People don't even know it's there
[18:19] <zequence> Two things I'm missing from favorites, just to simplify things for people - software and system settings
[18:19] <OvenWerks> zequence: there is truth in that. It's item lable in the desktp file doesn't help.
[18:19] <OvenWerks> settings has it's own icon already.
[18:19] <zequence> Also, qjackctl has some merit being there
[18:19] <zequence> Yep, but it's not self evident for non XFCE people
[18:19] <OvenWerks> qjckctl +1
[18:20] <zequence> I even didn't know right away where the logoff button was, not being used to Windows style
[18:20] <zequence> Used to having that in the top right corner with the system functions
[18:20] <OvenWerks> certainly settings in favourites would mirror the system appliactions menu.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> I think xubuntu has software in settings.
[18:21] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: settings is always visible
[18:22] <sakrecoer> it's got super-favourite status :)
[18:22] <zequence> I wouldnt' care too much about duplicating things. Better it is really simple to find the important stuff
[18:23] <sakrecoer> :) yeah :) i was reflecting about software because it took we a while to find it first, until i searched...
[18:23] <sakrecoer> it's got a new name appart from having a new icon
[18:23] <sakrecoer> s/we/me
[18:24] <zequence> Don't think a regular user appreciates the amount of difficulty a new user may have
[18:25] <OvenWerks> zequence: I was wrong, xuxbuntu has software in favourites.
[18:25] <OvenWerks> So we can follow that.
[18:25] <zequence> So, I would put those three there, actually. 1) qjackctl 2) software 3) system settings
[18:25] <sakrecoer> font manager? :p
[18:26] <zequence> Is that something one would use every day?
[18:26] <zequence> qjackctl is a really fundamental tool. You always start with that
[18:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: it is one right click to remove something from favourites after one gets tired of them :)
[18:26] <sakrecoer> if you work with graphcis, and have as many fonts as we distribute, you would use it a lot... but i'm not convinced it qualifies, so i'd say it doesn't
[18:27] <zequence> Also, should we disable the hover thing? Not sure how Xubuntu does that
[18:27] <OvenWerks> zequence: I like hover because it means less clicks to get somewhere.
[18:27] <sakrecoer> xubuntu has the hover off last time i checked... i for one would like it removed
[18:27] <OvenWerks> I think I added that. feel free to take it out.
[18:28] <OvenWerks> hover is sort fo second best to using the applications menu.
[18:29] <OvenWerks> The applications menu is faster than whisker. But if people like whisker that is fine too.
[18:29] <zequence> Ok, so I'll prepare two bug reports, just to be pedantic about the two changes that we are making
[18:29] <zequence> So, anyone disagree with adding the three favorites I mentioned?
[18:30] <sakrecoer> i'm in favour
[18:31] <OvenWerks> as discussed. my likes are not important I agree it will help newbys
[18:32]  * OvenWerks will not be using whisker as his daily application starter.
[18:32] <sakrecoer> your likes _are_ important OvenWerks :)
[18:32] <sakrecoer> but i get your point
[18:32] <zequence> Heck, I don't even use Ubuntu Studio as my daily system. But, I do use it in my studio
[18:32] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: to a point, but ease of use for first time users is more important.
[18:33] <zequence> First Bug 1570051
[18:34] <sakrecoer> i use ubuntustudio all day everyday :3
[18:34] <sakrecoer> i also happen to be the newbiest of us all :D
[18:34] <zequence> I'm a Debian/Gnome person myself
[18:35] <zequence> I do rather use Ubuntu Studio in the studio. It comes alive there
[18:35] <sakrecoer> nice diaporama fix zequence. maybe we could have made a new screenshot of "software" but it would also imply changing the text.. and it works as is..
[18:36] <OvenWerks> My personal desktop is US, but there is a server, two xubuntus and a kubuntu as well. (plus a raspian)
[18:36] <sakrecoer> ah, servers and rasps :p they work alone, if not they are badily configured :D
[18:36] <zequence> OvenWerks: What do you have on your server? ubuntu?
[18:37] <OvenWerks> zequence: yes. 14.04
[18:37] <zequence> I actually use Ubuntu for my Steam machine as well, but for servers, only Debian
[18:37] <sakrecoer> my servers also run ubuntu
[18:37] <sakrecoer> main one is still 12.04 tho. the 14.04 one is collecting dust on a shelf atm
[18:38] <OvenWerks> the server is headless and cli only.
[18:38] <zequence> I have one rasbian too
[18:38] <sakrecoer> i put osmc on my my rasp
[18:38] <zequence> Bug 1570052
[18:38] <OvenWerks> the RPi is going to be the brain for my HW control surface.
[18:39] <sakrecoer> nice OvenWerks ! :)
[18:39] <zequence> Oh, please confirm both bugs, just to be sure
[18:40] <OvenWerks> done, both confirmed
[18:41] <zequence> Thanks
[18:41] <OvenWerks> zequence: I will also add it to the iso tracker.
[18:44] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have added it to post install on the QA site so it will show in the "bugs to watch for" area.
[18:44] <zequence> OvenWerks: Ok, thanks.
[18:45] <zequence> I'll be making the changes right away and uploading. With a little luck, they will have passed through before tomorrows build
[18:45] <OvenWerks> good.
[18:45] <zequence> If anyone would like to take a look at the lightdm bug, pleas do
[18:45] <sakrecoer> it seems kryten is fixing the lightdm bug
[18:45] <zequence> Oh, nice
[18:45] <sakrecoer> yes! <3
[18:46] <zequence> krytarik: Is that true? Cause, then I'll wait with uploading until you're done
[18:46]  * OvenWerks didn't notice something wrong with lightdm.
[18:46] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no background on first boot
[18:47] <sakrecoer> also the icon-theme is missing..
[18:47] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Ah, no default bg then.
[18:47] <sakrecoer> i should probably file a bug for that one...? because i think krytarik is fixing that too..
[18:48] <zequence> sakrecoer: That would be good, yeas
[18:48] <OvenWerks> I just wish it span screens though :)
[18:48] <sakrecoer> ok, going at it :)
[18:49] <zequence> sakrecoer: When I do these bug reports, I just go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio and report it there. Then, I repurpose it for the package in question
[18:49] <zequence> If it were a linux bug, I would use the terminal, in comparison, to gather all the info about the system. Also
[18:50] <sakrecoer> ok, i'll do like that then :)
[18:50] <zequence> If I need a sponsor, I'm more particular with the bug reports
[18:50] <zequence> In this case, it's good to have bug reports so that the archive admin can see that I'm not uploading junk
[18:52] <sakrecoer> zequence: by "repurposing"... what do you mean? Changing the "Affects" field?
[18:53] <zequence> sakrecoer: Exactly
[18:53] <zequence> sakrecoer: Put the package name under "Package" and save
[18:53] <zequence> or, next to, to be more precise
[18:54] <sakrecoer> lightdm gives me loads of results ...
[18:54] <sakrecoer> but it is ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme right?
[18:55] <sakrecoer> or is it ubuntustudio-default-settings ?
[18:55] <zequence> sakrecoer: It's the theme, but, we seem to have somewhat duplicate stuff in -default-settings
[18:56] <zequence> So, I would use ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme in this case. If there are fixes in both packages, the bug will be mentioned in both
[18:56] <sakrecoer> ok thanks! :)
[18:56] <zequence> sakrecoer: Right, you could add more packages, if you want. But, I'm not sure if both are involved
[18:57] <sakrecoer> Bug #1570056
[18:58] <zequence> A worse problem, btw. Just noticed. The keyboard layout in lightdm is in English for me
[18:58] <sakrecoer> ooops..
[18:59] <zequence> We've had that in the past, but we fixed it by removing a package
[18:59] <zequence> I'll report that too. I wouldn't know right away how to fix it though
[19:01] <sakrecoer> zequence: you didn't change lightdm theme to numix it appears? i'm with it anyways, since we keep the greybird windows.
[19:01] <sakrecoer> i'm *fine with it
[19:03] <zequence> sakrecoer: No, I didn't. Next time maybe we can work out those details a little sooner. Felt like it wasn't worth stressing this time
[19:04] <zequence> Actually, I'll need to double check the keyboard layout
[19:05] <sakrecoer> i like it better likeit is now. i mean, i was out for "consistency" anyways :D
[19:05] <sakrecoer> doesn't make sense to have dark dialog boxes and bright app windows in my world :D better bright windows, period :)
[19:05] <zequence> Yep, the keyboard layout in my newly installed system is US English
[19:06] <zequence> Let's try to fix our own dark theme for next release, or at least before the next LTS
[19:07] <zequence> One thing I would like to get rolling is backports, so I will probably do that as a hobby this summer.
[19:07] <zequence> (though, I need to check what snappy means in the infrastructure of things first)
[19:10] <sakrecoer> zequence, i tried to create a new user with a password with characters that are different between swedish and english and i had no problem
[19:10] <sakrecoer> ah, but i see your chat now :)
[19:10] <zequence> sakrecoer: You should see the keyboard layout at the top bar
[19:10] <zequence> ..of the login window
[19:11] <zequence> Unless you changed it, it should be US English after a fresh install
[19:11] <zequence> If you haven't had that in an older installation, this may be due to a recent change
[19:11] <sakrecoer> i have it in swedish
[19:12] <zequence> We had this problem before. I'll need to look more into it, but don't have time more today.
[19:12] <zequence> Big 1570060
[19:12] <zequence> Bug 1570060
[19:12] <sakrecoer> but i picked swedish in the live-iso menu
[19:13] <sakrecoer> i realized that if i picked english, i had to set it appropriately when selecting the keyboard layout in the install dialogue when installing within a test-session
[19:13] <zequence> This is only in the login window. Not in the desktop session
[19:13] <sakrecoer> yes, yes
[19:13] <sakrecoer> it is in swedish here Sv_se
[19:14] <zequence> So, could be it is quite a recent change that does this then
[19:14] <zequence> Both my recent installs have this problem
[19:14] <sakrecoer> but like i said, if you pick english in the live-boot menu, you have to actively chose swedish layout in the install dialogue after
[19:14] <zequence> Yes, but that part works either way - the desktop gets the right keyboard layout
[19:14] <sakrecoer> i think it is in the order of input panels in the install dialogue
[19:15] <sakrecoer> no, it didn't
[19:15] <zequence> I did that way too, for one of my installations. Didn't make any difference
[19:15] <sakrecoer> i rebooted, because i had first picked english, and i couldn't type "@" in a terminal
[19:15] <zequence> You're talking about the live ISO now. Not the installation
[19:15] <zequence> If you want to confirm, do a new installation today to find out
[19:15] <sakrecoer> the isntallation from live-boot
[19:16] <zequence> You're talking about the keyboard layout during installation, not after it
[19:16] <zequence> Anyway, I have some work to do now. bbl
[19:16] <sakrecoer> zequence: once installed, i have it in swedish
[19:17] <sakrecoer> but the hole system is in swedish
[19:18] <zequence> sakrecoer: Just do an install today to confirm, ok?
[19:18] <zequence> Otherwise, you are talking about something else
[19:19] <sakrecoer> i just did!
[19:19] <zequence> sakrecoer: You installed today, and the keyboard layout in the login window is in Swedish?
[19:20] <zequence> sakrecoer: Is your language also in Swedish? (mine isn't)
[19:20] <zequence> I have two recent installs with the same problem. One of them I did just a few hours ago
[19:21] <zequence> sakrecoer: Instead of rebooting next time, just go into system settings and change the keyboard layout there. Doing it in the boot menu will have no extra effect
[19:24] <sakrecoer> i installed it 20 minutes ago
[19:24] <sakrecoer> chosing swedish did affect my live-session, and then at install swedsih and swedish layout were already selected
[19:25] <zequence> the live session is irrelevant
[19:25] <sakrecoer> yes i know
[19:25] <zequence> sakrecoer: So, not only your keyboard layout is Swedish, but also the launguage setting, is that right?
[19:25] <sakrecoer> yes
[19:26] <zequence> Ok, so try using English language and Swedish keyboard layout
[19:26] <zequence> That at least gives a clue to the problem
[19:26] <zequence> ..when installing, that is
[19:26] <sakrecoer> ok i will try that
[19:48] <zequence> Probably whatever is selecting the keyboard layout is doing so based on language instead of keyboard layout
[20:49] <krytarik> zequence_, sakrecoer_: Done.
[20:56] <zequence_> krytarik: Ok, thanks. Will check it out
[20:59] <zequence> krytarik: Seems like you really cleaned up that package
[21:01] <zequence> krytarik: What does the option "keyboard=onboard" do?
[21:01] <krytarik> Yep, quite a bit. \o/
[21:01] <krytarik> Link the accessibility thingy to the already installed Onboard.
[21:02] <zequence> Ah, right. Accessibility.
[21:02] <zequence> Ok, going to upload both packages now.
[21:03] <zequence> Some kind of problem with the changelog.
[21:03] <zequence> krytarik: Did you test build it?
[21:04] <zequence> krytarik: The other one was -default-settings
[21:05] <krytarik> Nope, didn't - no idea what that could be.
[21:07] <zequence> krytarik: April.  Not dch?
[21:10] <krytarik> Yeah, doing it manually still. :P
[21:46] <zequence> krytarik: Did you push yet?
[21:48] <krytarik> zequence: Yep, just. :P
[21:49] <krytarik> And sorry for the noise. :3
[21:50] <zequence> krytarik: No problem. But, I would probably start using dch, just to make my life easier :)
[21:51] <krytarik> Yeah, I figure as well - every time I fiddle with that line manually. :P
[21:57] <zequence> krytarik: Hmm, you overwrote the bzr branch. I suppose it is legit to do sometimes, but it means the one who pulls must do the same
[21:58] <zequence> Not exactly the like the linux kernel repo with huge amounts of activity, but could potentially cause some headache
[21:59] <krytarik> Yeah, I know. :3
[22:24] <sakrecoer_> \o/
[22:25] <sakrecoer_> :'3
[22:26] <sakrecoer_> what is "noise" in this context?
[22:27] <krytarik> sakrecoer_: That I had to fix the "April" one - and on top of that '--overwrite'. :P
[22:29] <sakrecoer_> ah, like side-effects, collateral damage to one's time? :D
[22:32] <krytarik> And possibly one's inbox, yes. :P
[22:34] <sakrecoer_> aah of course! collateral damage thing didn't quite sound right in the situation..
[22:37] <sakrecoer_> zsynch is giving me a 7.1% diff since i synched earlier this evening :D is it already uploaded and build?
[22:40] <zequence> sakrecoer_: usually builds at around 20.00
[22:40] <zequence> Or, before. I guess, UTC time. Not sure
[22:41] <zequence> There are rebuilds sometimes too
[22:41] <zequence> ..but not today
[23:31] <sakrecoer> get that weird bug again with the "download updates while installing" geryed out. Says "no internet available" but im writing this from that machine..
[23:32] <sakrecoer> bug 1561716
[23:41] <sakrecoer> hehe, earlier today failed to see shotwell is still in the slides... i guess the slides aren't uploaded yet, zequence ?
[23:53] <sakrecoer> zequence: confirming the keyboard layout bug. it set US english on the login screen.
[23:55] <sakrecoer> system is in english, and i specifically set the layout to swedish. once logged in its all good, but still, the password being hidden and all...


[12:40] <mattymo> hggdh, I just wanted to say thanks for adding your bot to our channel and we don't need anything else
[13:47] <hggdh> mattymo: you are welcome
[17:16] <penguin42> jsalisbury: Bug 1241871  it's reported that the upstream now has a fix in it, maybe a candidate for update?
[17:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1241871 in linux (Ubuntu) "8086:0166 [ASUS ZENBOOK UX32VD] 13.10 kernels (3.11.x) Fail to light" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241871
[17:16] <jsalisbury> penguin42, thanks!  I'll take a look
[21:47] <NikTh> Hello, can I ask for an apport-collect command in bugs like this one ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1254867 or because it has not a package assigned apport-collect will not have any effect ?
[21:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254867 in Ubuntu "Waking from Sleep Makes Some Games Perform Sluggishly" [Undecided,New]
[21:48] <penguin42> I think a bot automatically sets it to incomplete and asks the reporter to pick a package
[21:49] <penguin42> personally I'd guess for Linux and want a set of logs gathered after a resume
[21:51] <NikTh> Thanks penguin42 . As I'm not sure what package is the appropriate one, I will leave it as it is.
[22:15] <TheLordOfTime> what does one do when you can't use `ubuntu-bug` to file a bug about something crashing, because apport itself crashes?
[22:16] <hggdh> TheLordOfTime: first step: cry. 2nd: verify if there is a bug opened against apport on that
[22:16] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, first step cry?  lol
[22:16] <hggdh> usually, apport -- being THE eror handler -- should not crash
[22:16] <hggdh> so, I would cry first ;-)
[22:16] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, so if apport is crashing, go curl up in the corner, cry, panic, and then just lay down there and sob until you die?
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> or, of course, my favorite:
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> nuke the system with a clean install
[22:17] <hggdh> which will prolly not solve the issue...
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> well...
[22:17] <hggdh> and I did not say 'curl up & cry', I just said cry. Some 5 seconds is enough
[22:18] <hggdh> how did apport crash? Backtrace available?
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> no idea
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> the user who asked it on ask ubuntu's main chat isn/t there
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> and i have questions for em
[22:18] <hggdh> k. I do remember some issues on apport some time ago, perhaps the user needs to dist-upgrade
[22:19] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/12337200#12337200 and the next several messages after that are relevant
[22:19] <TheLordOfTime> 13.10 was the offending system
[22:20] <TheLordOfTime> my first quesiton was "Did they in-place upgrade 13.04 to 13.10?"
[22:20] <TheLordOfTime> but of course i'm 8 hours late to the party
[22:21] <hggdh> heh
[22:22] <hggdh> yeah, without knowing how ubuntu-bug crashes, it is difficult to say where is the issue :-(
[22:23] <hggdh> and... who is filemanager?
[22:33] <TheLordOfTime> nfc
[22:35] <hggdh> hum. I cannot even log in to the stackexchange chat...
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, do you have an askubuntu nick?
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> if so you login to askubuntu first :P
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> then access the chat
[22:39] <hggdh> I did...
[22:39] <hggdh> bah. I will get thru it later. Try with another browser, etc
[22:41] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[22:41] <TheLordOfTime> the person who was having the issues isn't around though
[22:41] <hggdh> yeah. Until s/he comes back, hopefully, I will have squared out my issue with login
[22:41] <hggdh> I wonder if 2-factor auth is playing a role
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> could be
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, you using google to login or something?
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> because i just use launchpad.net as my openid auth
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> and it works xD
[22:50] <hggdh> I was also using lp.net. It does not work... So I tried having one tab on lp.net (logged), and one tab on askubuntu (logged). Stil, chat.stackexchange fails
[22:50] <hggdh> checked probably blockage, found I was blocking data from stackauth.com; allowed it, checked OK, tried again -- still fails
[22:51] <hggdh> s/probably/probable/
[22:52] <TheLordOfTime> cache nuke
[22:56] <NikTh>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1254834 , how is this possible ?
[22:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254834 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Can't report bug with apport because /var has no free space" [Undecided,New]
[22:59] <NikTh> The whole root partition is filled up, I guess. /var is under /root. If the user had a separate /var , I guess s/he would know what to do in order to free /var space. ;-)
[23:01] <NikTh> Should I convert it to a question or not ?
[23:03] <hggdh> NikTh: my first feeling is that it should be a question -- be it the same partition (usual) or a different one (rare, user *must* know what is being done), the fact is there is no space...
[23:05] <NikTh> I will convert it to a question then. Thanks hggdh
[23:05] <hggdh> even more given the error message asks for cleaning up space
[23:09] <NikTh> Correct :-)
[23:11] <NikTh> hmm, I have a problem with the RSS feed (Firefox bookmark) right now. It shows only 10 results.
[23:14] <hggdh> NikTh: you mean the Launchpad bugs feed? If so, you can /join #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[23:14] <NikTh> Yes bugs feed I mean. Thanks hggdh
[23:32] <TheLordOfTime> yeah the bugs announce channel is nicer :P
[23:32] <penguin42> latest bugs are always boring
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i have the ones for nginx on highlight
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> i'm expecting people from Apache to try and change the nginx default docroot
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> ... which violates Debian policy...
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=730382
[23:33] <ubot2> Debian bug 730382 in nginx "nginx: Please change the default document root to /var/www/html" [Important,Open]
[23:34] <TheLordOfTime> why's it open it should be won'tfix
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, apparently, 11.5.4 debian policy states not to use /var/www/html... http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> i think the apache people are crazy
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> they tried in Debian, it was rejected by the maintainers.  if they try in Ubuntu i'll slap them quoting the debian bug and debian policy...
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, Ubuntu tries to follow Debian policy as closely as they can, no?
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> or is there a different policy set in play for packages?
[23:37] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: So where does nginx currently have it's root?
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> (and how they behave)
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, /usr/share/nginx (WHICH IS ACKNOWLEDGED AS WRONG!)
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> gonna be /usr/share/doc/nginx next upload
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> (per 11.5.4 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl )
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> at least that's what was implied
[23:38] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: What's a bit weird is that's where I'd expect documentation about the package, not the base place it serves it's documents from
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, it's debian...
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> blame them
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5.4:
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Document Root
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Document Root
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Applications should try to avoid storing files in the Web Document Root. Instead they should use the /usr/share/doc/package directory for documents and register the Web Application via the doc-base package.
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> whoooopsies
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i blame debian policy, because i'd expect the same you expect.
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> apache is the only webserver that has a requirement use of /var/www/html apparently though
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> and apparently Apache is saying "We're the debian standard, so follow us!'
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> when they're violating debian policy.
[23:40] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Are we reading this the right way - does 'Web application' mean a server?  or does it mean a set of things that get served?
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5 header penguin42
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5 Web servers and applications
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> This section describes the locations and URLs that should be used by all web servers and web applications in the Debian system.
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> lrn2read?
[23:40] <penguin42> sigh, ok
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> (sorry if i come off as an ass, i'm slightly under the weather, it's not intended)
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, the one time i get to tell someone from Apache off, though, was quoting the exact policy on the debian bug xD
[23:41] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: The thing is that's also insecure, it means that the default setup is to serve the things including things like changelog etc so you can see package version
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> (note: Debian BTS and iMail's mail formatting don't play nice)
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, true, which was a concern
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, however, this could also be fixed by /var/www symlinking to the file source
[23:41] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: And you don't want people screwing around with files in /usr/share/doc which will break next time the package gets updated
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> but until Debian policy is changed i don't think nginx is going to be changing things
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, that's for the default config...
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> all default configs are designed as examples
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> not "Serve from here" things
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> most SANE sysadmins write their own directives and different docroot locations
[23:42]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, still, i find it interesting Debian Policy and APache disagree
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> but i do see your security observation there
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> (if nginx has an MIR and the security team notices that i may bring it up)
[23:43] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Yeh I suppose everyone does do their own config - I suppose I was thinking about the simplistic cases
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, you mean the people that want everything to "just work"... right?
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> the people who are ignorant to the intricacies of sysadminning :P
[23:44] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Yeh, like if you just want a simple little internal webserver - not a full serving critical stuff
[23:44] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, but there's a difference between "make it work" and sane, IT-security-common-sense configurations
[23:45] <penguin42> yeh
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> a good sysadmin knows how to configure things.
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> ... hmmm, do we even have /var/www in a default setup?
[23:45] <penguin42> shrug, don't know
[23:46]  * TheLordOfTime pokes -server because the server team would know
[23:46] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: I'd point it to a subdir of /usr/share/doc/nginx - e.g. /usr/share/doc/nginx/default-doc-root   or something like that
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, however nginx does it they'll do it
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> i think there's suggestion to have an /html folder inside /usr/share/doc/nginx
[23:46] <penguin42> nod
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> at least, drifting around
[23:46] <penguin42> that would make sense
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> root /usr/share/nginx/html;  <-- default config
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> well...
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> default config as of 1.4.3
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> i haven't packaged 1.4.4 from Debian yet
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> although that would be the same, the change hasn't popped up until after 1.4.4
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> so it'll be in 1.4.4-somenumber or 1.4.5
[23:47]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:48] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Do you do things like add selinux rules for it?
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> I personally don't.
[23:48]  * TheLordOfTime isn't maintainer
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> that'd have been done by the maintainers before me
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> if there's SEL rules for it, they're drifting around somewhere, or just not in the debian packages
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> probably be in the centos repos though
[23:49] <penguin42> sorry, I actually meant apparmour
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> i don't think there's any rules for that
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> but i only run basic-needed features, lock down everything else in the nginx config
[23:49]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> bleh coffee time again...
[23:56] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, it shouldn't be too hard to generate an apparmor profile though
[23:56]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:56] <TheLordOfTime> never tried it, maybe i'll mess with it on my testing system
[23:57] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Probably best not to enable by default (because it complicates setup) but might be useful to ship disabled
[23:57] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[23:57] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i don't know if there's any default profiles made available, i could find out but i don't see one anywhere
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, remind me where the apparmor profile(s) would exist in a pacage?
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> package*
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> woahhhh
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> one of my EC2s has 150+ updates o.O
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> i guess unattended-updates isn't doing its job
[23:59] <penguin42> somewhere under /etc/apparmor.d I think
[23:59] <TheLordOfTime> WORK YOU STUPID PIECE OF...
[23:59]  * TheLordOfTime grumbles at his ec2
[23:59] <TheLordOfTime> it's hung up on downloading a bzip2 index with apt >.>


 Is this still a good place for daily JJ builds?
 https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[03:34] <ahoneybun> Hello from 22.04 LTS!
[11:03] <mparillo> Did you burn today's ISO, or did you use sed to update your sources?
[11:05] <RikMills> mparillo: you mean for my installed VM? that is currently an upgrade from impish
[11:24] <mparillo> My January 8 Jammy ISO worked fine on real HW. Recent Jammy ISOs (for at least the last few days) have not fully iniitialized to a live environment. Most days, I see the Plasma wallpaper, and a cursor, but I cannot move the cursor, nor use the keyboard (super key, or alt F2).
[11:24] <mparillo> Yesterday's ISO did just fine in a VM however.
[11:26] <mparillo> P.S. Welcome back. And, BTW, is HH EOL for us? If so, is https://kubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=4783&action=edit good to publish?
[11:30] <RikMills> todays boots to desktop in a VM
[11:32] <RikMills> I guess HH is EOL if 9 months have gone
[11:33] <mparillo> Yes, personally I prefer booting to a desktop over the Try / Install.
[11:33] <RikMills> I am not sure quite why the try/install is failing to start yet
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/36ae7967/file_52255.jpg
[11:37] <RikMills> good candidate for most useless error message of the month
[11:44] <mparillo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2022-January/006363.html
[11:44] <RikMills> right then
[11:45] <RikMills> ah, I think I see why try/install is borked
[11:45] <RikMills> will see how to tes a fix
[11:45] <RikMills> *test
[11:50] <mparillo> Published.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/ab79f11d/file_52256.jpg
[12:07] <RikMills> mparillo: ^^
[12:32] <mparillo> This will make it align with the test cases.
[12:32] <mparillo> I tried removing the cable to my external monitor, and I could not even get the Plasma wallpaper running the live ISO. I will try again with tomorrow's ISO, presumably with your fix.
[14:04] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:41] <RikMills> https://code.launchpad.net/~rikmills/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/414563
[14:56] <mparillo> RikMills: Not that I am qualified to properly review, but I would be happy to test on real HW.
 I used the ISO. (re @IrcsomeBot: <mparillo> Did you burn today's ISO, or did you use sed to update your sources?)
 RikMills do we need to work on the slideshow at all?
 The slides themselves.
[23:45] <ahoneybun> RikMills: is this updated at all? https://phabricator.kde.org/project/board/214/
[23:46] <valorie> looks like not since 2020
[23:48] <ahoneybun> Mm I'm just wondering the best place to talk about changes for 22.04 LTS. I think we should enable at least 2 workspaces.
[23:49] <ahoneybun> I'm also really liking Bismuth (tiling) since that kept me on Pop for a while.