 does paying for 12.10 change the version you end up with?
[04:41] <bazhang> 12.10 Professional Ultimate
[04:45] <IdleOne> I smell troll. I also have a cold.
[12:01] <sevenforall> Childish, to say the least.
[12:05] <sevenforall> I've been around to help people, helped them where relevant, and I get banned because I shooted a video to someone who was being silly, while the channel was silent anyway? I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, it was far from necessary. You made your point by saying I shouldn't, repeated yourself three times, I friendly said everything's all right, and I personally think all that together is more spam than tha
[12:05] <ikonia> sorry, I was just on the phone
[12:05] <ikonia> you didn't get banned for posting the video
[12:05] <sevenforall> ikonia: Then what did I get banned for, if I may ask?
[12:05] <ikonia> I've forwarded you to this channel as you didn't seem to want to grasp the "don't do it please" statment
[12:06] <ikonia> "just ignore it" - no, "don't do it"
[12:06] <ikonia> it's really simple
[12:06] <ikonia> "sure, no problem", thats all that was needed
[12:06] <sevenforall> ikonia: Did I do it again?
[12:06] <sevenforall> I understood you, I never wanted to imply I didn't
[12:06] <ikonia> yet you did
[12:06] <ikonia> "just ignore it"
[12:06] <ikonia> rather than "sure"
[12:06] <ikonia> just ignore it suggest "I'll do it again, but you just ignore it"
[12:06] <sevenforall> That isn't quite what I meant, sorry if you understood it that way
[12:06] <ikonia> it's really simple "please don't do that again"
[12:07] <ikonia> if you're happy with that, I'll remove the forward
[12:07] <sevenforall> Why would I do it again? The message was clear
[12:07] <ikonia> and yet you are STILL arguing
[12:07] <sevenforall> I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what I could possibly say to make you stop thinking I am arguing
[12:07] <sevenforall> I never was in the first place
[12:07] <ikonia> "please don't do it again" "sure no problem"
[12:08] <ikonia> it's a really simple conversation
[12:08] <ikonia> rather than "just ignore it, blah blah blah"
[12:08] <sevenforall> Yes, you said that, but I can't go back in time to change what I've said.
[12:08] <ikonia> ask again "you've wasted more lines, blah blah"
[12:08] <sevenforall> We misunderstood each other
[12:08] <ikonia> I don't think so
[12:08] <sevenforall> Well, what do you expect me to do about that? :|
[12:08] <ikonia> I think you just wanted to have a little pop at being told to stop
[12:09] <ikonia> as long as you're happy to not do it again the forward is removed
[12:09] <ikonia> but I don't care to be honest
[12:09] <sevenforall> I already said I won't, about two times, I truly don't know what I need to add
[12:09] <sevenforall> And I just confirmed I said it, right there ^ :|
[12:09] <ikonia> great, then the forward is removed
[12:10] <sevenforall> Thanks
[12:10] <ikonia> if you /part here and rejoin #ubuntu you should get in no problem
[12:10] <chu> I like your no-nonsense approach.
[12:11] <ikonia> I don't see the point of messing around with that sort of stuff,
[12:11] <ikonia> it's clear he just wanted to have a pop because he'd been asked not to do it
[12:11] <ikonia> and then back pedal hard when it has bigger impact than he thought
[12:12] <chu> Yep.
[12:55] <lhavelund> Some people just want to test their limits.
[17:50] <bazhang> MeMenu is from MINT?
[17:51] <IdleOne> no
[17:52] <IdleOne> The memenu is at the top right of your screen
[17:53] <IdleOne> includes info about the current logged in user, social networking accounts, etc.
[17:58] <bazhang> ah that one. thanks!
[17:58] <IdleOne> sure thing
[17:58] <bazhang> why is heoyea asking for the extension of something? he seems very random in giving support/advice
[17:59] <IdleOne> seems he is trying to help install some game
[17:59] <IdleOne> help Tweikable
[17:59] <bazhang> in this case, yes.
[18:02] <bazhang> fbot seems to be lagging
[18:17] <bazhang> UbuntubasedisUbuntu!!111
[18:32] <IdleOne> That game is asking for libglut but I can't seem to find it
[18:32] <bazhang> well heoyea has gotten his warning to stay on topic.
[18:32] <bazhang> several in fact, of which he seems to have pretended not to understand
[18:33] <bazhang> Slayback> something that cost 15 each and i have 584 to buy for... how mutch? and how can i do it on a calculator?
[18:33] <Pici> santiago is also being a bit annoying
[18:33] <IdleOne> autoconf-gl-macros apparently includes libglut but when I install autoconf-gl-macros I still get an error asking for libglut
[18:33] <bazhang> I use UBUNTU!!1
[18:33] <DJones> I'm sure I warned him this morning as well (maybe 6 hours ago) he was doing the same thing about 8 hours ago
[18:34] <bazhang> I ought to purge all my +b and +q
[18:34] <bazhang> when fishtailing, turn into the swerve
[18:36] <bazhang> IdleOne, hacker evolution demo?
[18:36] <IdleOne> bazhang: yup
[18:36] <bazhang> DJones, santiago? or heoyea
[18:36] <bazhang> probably a PPA for it somewhere
[18:37] <IdleOne> bazhang: I looked for a PPA, didn't find one
[18:37] <bazhang> IdleOne, ok, thanks
[18:38] <IdleOne> Now I want to get this game running :/
[18:39] <DJones> bazhang: heoyea - I think I warned him anyway, he may have stopped before I got to warning him
[18:40] <bazhang> DJones, ok thanks
[18:40] <bazhang> @mark #ubuntu [heoyea_] (~heoyea@cpe-72-130-43-168.socal.res.rr.com): heoyea repeatedly warned about random commentary/offtopic nonsense
[18:43] <DJones> Is it a full moon tonight?
[18:43] <IdleOne> I don't know but I am out of smokes and it is COLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! outside
[18:48] <bazhang> check the settings
[18:49] <Pici> idealone
[18:49] <IdleOne> hehe
[18:49] <bazhang> emacs
[18:49] <bazhang> ide   alone    get it???
[18:49] <IdleOne> he isn't going to like what I have to tell him next. I don't know how to fix the libglut problem
[18:50] <IdleOne> bazhang: I don't get it, but I don't use emacs
[18:51] <IdleOne> I'm sure it is very funny though :)
[18:51] <DJones> Enough is enough for heotea
[18:51] <bazhang> heoyea_ seems to be rushing right up to the line
[18:51] <bazhang> and OVER it!
[18:52] <bazhang> IdleOne, ur ide emacs is alone
[18:52] <Pici> awww
[18:53] <DJones> IdleOne: You should ask Tweikable if they deliver smokes
[18:53] <IdleOne> haha I fixed something without knowing what the hell I did to fix it
[18:54] <IdleOne> he got excited a little early I think
[18:55] <bazhang> !opsnack
[18:56] <IdleOne> well, what is wrong with my install that the game won't run
[18:56] <Pici> SantaOne
[18:56] <IdleOne> haha too early for that
[19:00] <IdleOne> GOT IT! needed to install freeglut3
[19:04] <IdleOne> Nice game
[19:06] <DJones> !away > Sm0kEz
[19:36] <bazhang> the time at the tone will be: Troll O'Clock
[19:36] <bazhang> badda boom!
 [23:38] #ubuntu-offtopic unable to join channel (address is banned)
[19:38] <bazhang> what a surprise!
[19:39] <Pici> I don't see a ban
[19:42] <Pici> oh, hyd
[19:42] <bazhang> got him in PM
[20:01] <bazhang> well that turned *very* unpleasant on his part very fast


[00:04] <kb9vqf> Is there a document that covers setting up an SVN nightly build on a PPA?
[00:04] <kb9vqf> Or maybe I should ask if such a thing is possible for non-privileged users at all?
[00:05] <kb9vqf> nevermind...someone responded on #launchpad finally :)
[00:06] <daskreeCh> :-)
[00:06] <daskreeCh> kb9vqf: Whats Trinity ?
[00:07] <kb9vqf> My KDE3.5 fork...it finally has a name and branch
[00:07] <kb9vqf> See my recent dents ;)
[00:07] <daskreeCh> Why did it need a fork?
[00:07] <daskreeCh> yep
[00:07] <kb9vqf> Upstream will never release a new version
[00:07] <kb9vqf> I can release my own versions though
[00:07] <kb9vqf> So it's kind of a fork
[00:09] <daskreeCh> Ok so you are the only developer on it?
[00:09] <kb9vqf> As of this instant, but I am talking with other people who would like to help
[00:09] <daskreeCh> Oh nice ;)
[00:10] <kb9vqf> This way KDE is only involved on the SVN end; they don't have to deal with a bunch of bug reports on software they don't want to see anymore and I get the freedom to enhance as much as I want to
[00:10] <kb9vqf> :)
[00:11] <kb9vqf> I already redirected the file-bugs utilities to my bugtracker and modified the About dialog to make it clear where the development is happening at
[00:12]  * kb9vqf notes that bzr auto-build is months away...bummer
[00:20] <Riddell> nixternal: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-release-team&m=126054911204721&w=2
[00:26] <ScottK> neversfelde: Still test building kdepim.  My laptop has been suspended a lot tonight.
[00:27] <neversfelde> ScottK: good luck :)
[00:27] <ScottK> neversfelde: Just didn't want you to think I'd forgotten you.
[00:27] <neversfelde> no problem
[00:30] <neversfelde> ScottK: I hope it is ok, I cannot install it for testing here
[00:32] <Lex79> I have testers for upgrading from staging ppa \o/
[00:32] <ScottK> Lex79: Bad.  We don't want people doing that.
[00:32] <Lex79> ScottK: they are my friends, no problem ;)
[00:33] <ScottK> Leads to broken systems.
[00:33] <ScottK> Gotta run.
[00:34] <Riddell> someone has to test it first
[00:34] <Lex79> btw I fixed all "trying overwrite" and I fixed plasma-desktop binary package empty, so I think there is no problems now
[00:34] <Lex79> *are
[01:49] <ScottK> neversfelde: Uploaded.
[03:36] <nixternal> people were taking bets to see who would snap at who on first
[03:36] <nixternal> DHH started, and my only response to him was, "You created Ruby on Rails?" Him: "Yes I did", me "Dude, I totally love Fail Whale"
[03:37] <nixternal> and everyone busted out laughing....but we hugged afterwards and he is teaching me RoR and I am showing him how to really drink a beer
[03:37] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/3415649532/
[03:37] <nixternal> haha
[03:39] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415472553/  <- that dude is the lead dev of the Motorola Droid phone...after they released the phone, he made enough money that he quit motorola and moved back to spain...I miss that guy, super cool dude
[03:40] <jjesse> i really enjoy my droid
[03:40] <jjesse> motorala is based in chi-town isn't it?
[03:40]  * jjesse heads out to walk the dog
[03:40] <nixternal> based 2 miles from my crib
[03:46]  * daskreeCh wants a milestone
[03:47] <daskreeCh> huh?
[03:47] <daskreeCh> THe installer requires you to download?
[03:47] <daskreeCh> When does it do that?
[05:30] <Darkwing-Netbook> ScottK: Ping
[05:31] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: Pong
[05:31] <Darkwing-Netbook> For the netbook UI in Lucid. Is it normal when you launch an application for it to return to home?:
[05:32] <ScottK> Not sure.
[05:32] <ScottK> I didn't get it running yet.
[05:33] <Darkwing-Netbook> example, I open Internet>Konqueror it will return me to the home screen
[05:33] <Darkwing-Netbook> ahh, other UI stuff is a bit... messed up...
[05:36] <Darkwing-Netbook> ScottK: http://imagebin.ca/view/EI9UuboO.html
[05:37] <ScottK> I'd ask notmart or MoRpHeUs next time you see them in #kubuntu-netbook.
[05:38] <Darkwing-Netbook> The main thing that feels off is two query boxes and the offset menu items
[05:42] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: You probably need to remove your ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-netbook-appletrc after the upgrade.  You shouldn't have two search boxes.
[05:42] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: If that fixes it, please file a bug against kubuntu-netbook-default-settings.
[05:42] <Darkwing-Netbook> kk
[05:50] <Darkwing-Netbook> ROFL! Reporting a bug in Launchpad and launchpad timed out
[05:55] <ScottK> normal occurence
[05:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> yeah i know, i thought it was a bit funny
[05:58] <Darkwing-Netbook> ScottK: says: rm: cannot remove `/home/david/.kde/share/config/plasma-netbook-appletrc': No such file or directory
[05:59] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: You've got nothing similar?
[05:59] <Darkwing-Netbook> digging
[06:01] <Darkwing-Netbook> brb
[06:05] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: I need to get to bed.  Good luck.
[06:07] <Darkwing-Netbook> Hmmm,
[06:19] <Darkwing-Netbook> okay, this hurts
[06:21] <Darkwing-Netbook> whats the apt-get command for reinstall again?
[06:23]  * Darkwing-Netbook bashes his head against the wall
[06:26] <Darkwing-Netbook> bbl
[06:33] <daskreeCh> kb9vqf: What happened?
[06:33] <kb9vqf> That was fast!
[06:34] <kb9vqf> Bad SATA controller brought down the system
[06:34] <kb9vqf> First time I've seen a "Segmentation faulty" message
[06:34]  * kb9vqf thinks his data is OK; but still worries that there are 558 minutes left in the rebuild
[06:37] <kb9vqf> This was also the first time I've had an active member of the array have it superblock so corrupted that it reports itself as a spare...that one gave me about 10 minutes of panic :)
[06:41] <daskreeCh> Didn't it have a backup superblock?
[06:42] <kb9vqf> daskreech: I thought they were supposed to; maybe that got corrupted too?
[06:42] <kb9vqf> Checksums were OK though
[06:43] <kb9vqf> Whatever it was, I hope it never happens again; I ended up zeroing the superblock on that drive and rebuilding from the two good ones
[06:48] <kb9vqf> daskreech: Ahhh...here we go, in the syslog.  Ever seen this before? http://pastebin.com/f1c32b1db
[06:48] <kb9vqf> After "Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed!" everything failed, including the array
[06:49] <daskreeCh> kb9vqf: Well if the controller is throwing errors that may mean that you need to do a low level hardware check
[06:50] <kb9vqf> Yeah, I'm a bit afraid of that...seems like I keep getting bad mainboards lately
[06:50] <kb9vqf> My desktop only boots if the temperature is above 68 degrees and below 72 or so
[06:51] <kb9vqf> The mythfrontend usually takes several good whacks to start from cold boot
[06:51] <kb9vqf> Etc...sometimes I really hate Chinese goods
[06:52] <daskreeCh> Sounds like you should check the power in your place too
[06:52] <kb9vqf> daskreech: Everything's on UPS
[06:53] <kb9vqf> Power shouldn't be an issue.  Power *supplies* on the other hand...
[06:53]  * kb9vqf recently had one catch fire
[06:54] <kb9vqf> Some of this equipment is what I thought survived the lightning strike in summer, but I wonder if it's a case of the walking dead
[06:54] <daskreeCh> Buy better power supplies
[06:55] <daskreeCh>  Monitors and Power suplies I don't mess around with
[06:55] <kb9vqf> Yeah...I have some replacements coming from Ebay, but it gets real expensive to constantly replace stuff :P
[06:57] <kb9vqf> That lighning knocked out a big name brand supply too; I'm thinking I will be replacing everything I had in my house at that time one way or another...
[06:57]  * kb9vqf shudders
[06:59] <kb9vqf> Hey, do you know if this stuff is auto-generated from the KDE sources or if it was written manually? http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classes.html
[07:01] <daskreeCh> Might be autogened to a skeleton and then fleshed out later
[07:05]  * kb9vqf needs to know for Trinity
[07:27] <kb9vqf> daskreech: it is auto-generated; I missed alittle line on the bottom: "Generated for API Reference by doxygen 1.5.9-20090814"
[07:27]  * kb9vqf knows nothing about doxygen though
[07:36] <daskreeCh> kb9vqf: poke nixternal
[07:38] <daskreeCh> Is virtuoso being packaged for Lynx?
[07:46] <verbalshadow_> daskreeCh it is on the Todo list as WIP last time i checked
[07:47] <daskreeCh> verbalshadow_: Ok but will not be backported to Koala with KDE SC 4.4 ?
[07:48] <verbalshadow_> daskreeCh i don't know the answer to that one
[07:48] <daskreeCh> Ok cool
[07:48] <daskreeCh> I'll check in the morning
[12:18] <Riddell> ScottK: kde4libs compiled on arm!  uploading now
[12:19] <Tm_T> shame I have too old arm to use those packages (:
[12:56] <amichair> Tonio_: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-6669 (looks like it was only opened a couple days ago!)
[13:13] <amichair> JontheEchidna: any thoughts on Bug #268939 ?
[13:15] <JontheEchidna> That's a bit strange, especially since software-properties-kde depends on the install-package package
[13:16] <JontheEchidna> I'd ask the user if it is still an issue for them and for them to check if /usr/bin/install-package is there
[13:23] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: morning, seems akonadi configuration is disappeared from system settings, it's only in menu
[13:24] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: The akonadi people did that on purpose, it was too easy to use it to mess up your akonadi config
[13:25] <Lex79> oh, ok
[13:25] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok, I did. Thanks!
[13:35] <Lex79> uhm Universe build-deps for package in main :) https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/1:2.1.0-0ubuntu3
[13:36] <Lex79> uploaded 3 weeks ago lol
[13:51]  * Lex79 will do koffice today
[14:38] <neversfelde> Lex79: I have a package, but it is on my desktop and I will not get back to this till next year. So it would be great, if you could do this :)
[15:08] <ScottK> Riddell: Wohoo!.  Did you put your additional fix in kdesvn?  sebas committed the first one already.
[15:08] <Lex79> neversfelde: no problem :)
[15:12] <Lex79> ScottK: koffice 2.1 is in experimental, can I do merge? or since it's not yet in Testing I can't ?
[15:13] <ScottK> In theory it's fine, but I'd ask Riddell, since I don't track koffice at all.
[15:14] <Lex79> ok
[15:15] <Riddell> Lure: yes go ahead and merge
[15:15] <Riddell> it'll need lots of conflicts/replaces foo-kde4 added
[15:17] <Riddell> Lex79 rather
[15:17] <Lex79> ok :)
[15:19] <Riddell> ScottK: looks like alexis already put the fix in SVN, there's a couple more here we may want to snaffle before trying to build on arm http://cia.vc/stats/author/menard/
[15:22] <ScottK> Riddell: So it looks like kdebase-runtime and kdebase-workspace.
[15:35] <apachelogger> oh my that thread is getting insanely stupid
[15:35] <ScottK> apachelogger: Which one?
[15:36] <apachelogger> kubuntu-devel about performance
[15:37]  * jtechidna always loves the mystical "packaging flaw"
[15:40] <ScottK> jtechidna: Questions for your other nick in #kubuntu-bugs
[16:00] <Tm_T> apachelogger: maybe I shouldn't reply it...
[16:16]  * Lex79 reminds ktorrent to JontheEchidna
[16:49] <Mamarok> this is silly: if people only add the backports PPA, they can't udate Amarok, since it depends on KDE 4.3.3 which is not there anymore
[16:49] <Mamarok> and here we go for PPA hell again, sick of having complaints 5 times a day
[16:51] <Mamarok> apachelogger: could you do something about that? like having a definite clear policy so we don't have to point people to x different PPAs?
[16:51] <Mamarok> right now it's a mess again, somebody remove 4.3.3 from backports and the dependencies are broken
[16:56] <Mamarok> removed*
[16:59] <Lex79> Mamarok: 4.3.3 has never been in Backport ppa for karmic, it was in Update ppa and now there is 4.3.4
[17:00] <Lex79> and amarok 2.2.1 is in Updates ppa
[17:04] <binarylooks> Lex79: U need some testers for the 4.4 beta in staging?
[17:04] <ScottK> Lex79: One of them was in backports for a while.  amarok should get moved and it explained on kubuntu.org
[17:04]  * ScottK meant to do this, but ENOTIME.  sorry.
[17:05] <Lex79> ScottK: so, where amarok should go? to Updates ?
[17:05] <Mamarok> Lex79: well, not true it initially was in the backports PPA, guess why it is such a mess now, it was moved later
[17:05] <ScottK> Lex79: Yes.
[17:06] <Lex79> ScottK: amarok is already in Updates ppa
[17:06] <ScottK> IIRC I copied it, but didn't remove it from backports until the announcement could get updated (which I didn't get to)
[17:06] <Mamarok> and don't forget to update the website :)
[17:06] <ScottK> Lex79: It was uploaded to backports, just didn't remove it from backports until the website got updated (seems that was a mistake)
[17:06] <Mamarok> ah, that's why, so I will point people only to updates
[17:07] <Mamarok> I sent them to the website :(
[17:07] <ScottK> Mamarok: I'm sorry I haven't had time on the web site update.  Would you please ping ryanakca and explain it to him.
[17:07] <Lex79> Mamarok: yes, this was my point :)
[17:07] <Mamarok> ok
[17:07] <Mamarok> ryanakca: ping
[17:07] <Lex79> binarylooks: yes, if you want testing the upgrade
[17:08] <binarylooks> Lex79: guess I was too fast, I installed it a couple of days ago and updated this morning
[17:09] <Lex79> binarylooks: succesfully?does it work the upgrade?
[17:10] <binarylooks> Lex79: it works more or less. I have quite frequent kwin crashes (none at all before)
[17:10] <ryanakca> Mamarok: pong
[17:10] <binarylooks> Lex79: there is the virtuoso issue and no sound for kde apps (except konqueror) sound can not be configured at all
[17:11] <stefan_> Lex79: i get conflicts with libkipi7 vs libkipi6
[17:11] <Mamarok> ryanakca: since the Amarok 2.2.1 packages were moved to the updates PPA, could you adapt the website entry accordingly, please?
[17:11] <Mamarok> it says backports PPA
[17:11] <stefan_> Lex79: and libkdcraw7 vs libkdcraw6
[17:11] <Lex79> stefan_: I know, do you have koffice ?
[17:11] <ryanakca> Hmmm... does http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/beta/ubuntu depend on other PPAs? I have it setup as http://localhost:9999/kubuntu-beta with approx in my sources.list, but apt seems to still pull ppa.launchpad.net... defying the purpose of having an apt cacher
[17:11] <ryanakca> Mamarok: Will do
[17:11] <Mamarok> ryanakca: thanks a lot :)
[17:11] <stefan_> Lex79: no
[17:13] <stefan_> Lex79: ok remoced the *6 libs - gwenview now was also removed
[17:14] <stefan_> Lex79: no broken stuff anymore - will try to reinstall gwenview after the update
[17:14] <Lex79> uhm dunno why, we should rebuild something against libkdcraw7 and libkipi7
[17:15] <ryanakca> Mamarok: all done
[17:15] <Mamarok> ryanakca: great, thanks again :)
[17:15] <Mamarok> ScottK: thank you, too :)
[17:15] <binarylooks> stefan_: I had similar issues when trying to install the kipi-plugins
[17:17] <apachelogger> Mamarok: the only sensible way to prevent that kind of issue is to create a ppa for amarok
[17:18] <apachelogger> which makes that whole ppa mess not exactly better
[17:18] <Mamarok> apachelogger: nope, since it was built against a later KDE version than default, this did not work
[17:18] <ScottK> apachelogger: No, the sensible way is don't upload updates to backports to start with
[17:18] <Mamarok> why not put it in the same PPA than the KDE version it is built against?
[17:18] <stefan_> http://pastebin.com/d33bc8920 ... there is one of these famous "trying to overwrite" bugs ;)
[17:19] <ScottK> Mamarok: It should be.
[17:19] <Mamarok> well, and KDE 4.3.4 was not an update?
[17:19] <apachelogger> Mamarok: it was only built agaisnt a more recent version because it was built in a conecptually shared ppa
[17:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: applying ubuntu policy it would have to go to backports :P
[17:19] <ScottK> apachelogger: Well we're trying to get that changed.
[17:20] <apachelogger> anyhow, either way it can technically happen since something might be left over in a staging ppa causing a wrong dep
[17:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: For PPAs we want minor versions in updates and major ones in backports
[17:20] <Mamarok> apachelogger: seriously, I don't care how you folks solve that, but it should not be necessary for people who want to have a newer Amarok version to need two different PPAs to have it working
[17:20] <Mamarok> that's where the messa started in the first place
[17:20] <ScottK> Mamarok: Agreed.
[17:20] <Mamarok> mess*
[17:20] <Lex79> stefan_: thanks, I will fix that, for now you can use sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-runtime-data_4%3a4.3.80-0ubuntu3~karmic1~ppa1_all.deb
[17:21] <apachelogger> no argument there
[17:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: do we have a written down policy for that stuff?
[17:21] <Mamarok> I don't really care how you solve that, but it should be consistent and not change on every new Kubuntu release
[17:21] <ScottK> Not sure.
[17:21]  * apachelogger would not recall reading anything
[17:21]  * ScottK thought so, but couldn't tell you where
[17:21] <apachelogger> though I think it was in some spec
[17:22] <apachelogger> then again specs are not the place to maintain the standing policy
[17:22] <ScottK> Lex79: Please also fix that in bzr for Lucid.
[17:22] <Lex79> yep
[17:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: cant find anything
[17:23] <apachelogger> need to document
[17:23] <claydoh> can the staging ppa be made private somehow?
[17:24] <ScottK> claydoh: Not really.
[17:24] <Mamarok> claydoh: good suggestion
[17:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think claydoh just volunteered to document it.
[17:24]  * ScottK goes back to $WORK
[17:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: we could move staging to ninjas
[17:24] <stefan_> Lex79: thanks did that already. found another one: http://pastebin.com/d23680122
[17:24] <claydoh> apachelogger: there you go :)
[17:25] <Mamarok> ScottK: we have some smartass folk who ask silly questions about staging, not caring to read the PPA description
[17:25] <apachelogger> oh, hold on, I think there was some problem with not being able to copy from private ppa or something
[17:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: Perhaps.  Now that you can copy private -> public, do we need staging?
[17:25] <claydoh> I'll document it, but i need to know what I am documenting
[17:25] <claydoh> in the document
[17:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: There was, but you can do it now.
[17:25] <Lex79> stefan_: thanks :)
[17:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh, cool, we might ened a second one then
[17:25] <apachelogger> s/ened/need
[17:26] <apachelogger> in case we need to prepare a kde update and say amarok at the same time
[17:26] <ScottK> claydoh: PPA policy.  Minor updates go in the updates PPA and major updates in backports.
[17:26] <apachelogger> which happened fairly often already
[17:26] <Mamarok> claydoh: btw, do you read the sounder ML? remember the 4 yorkshiremen I sent there from the Kubuntu-users ML?
[17:26] <ScottK> claydoh: e.g. for Karmic 4.3.x in updates and 4.4 stuff in backports.
[17:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: I am all for dropping staging in favor of ninjas though
[17:26] <claydoh> Mamarok: goodness, no :)
[17:26] <Mamarok> now the CC is redefining the sounder description... :)
[17:26] <claydoh> lol
[17:26] <apachelogger> the point of staging ppas is that you can stage without getting users crawl up your nose asking you why kde is broken :P
[17:27] <ScottK> Agreed.
[17:27] <apachelogger> claydoh: wanna document the ppa publishing policy?
[17:27] <claydoh> apachelogger:  sure
[17:28] <apachelogger> claydoh, ScottK: I suppose first step would be to thorw out a mail to even get a clear defintion of what goes where
[17:28] <claydoh> apachelogger: any particular format I need to follow?
[17:29] <apachelogger> claydoh: no, just need it written down, so that everyone has a place to check when in doubt
[17:29] <claydoh> apachelogger: ok
[17:29] <Lex79> ScottK: who test the stuff in ninja for karmic if you drop staging ppa ?
[17:29] <stefan_> Lex79: those i didn't have to force - just ran upgrade twice :) http://pastebin.com/m34d9ab16 http://pastebin.com/m682b3fcc
[17:29] <stefan_> Lex79: apart from that it was as smooth as it could be :))
[17:30] <apachelogger> Lex79: the one who uploads stuff :P
[17:30] <Lex79> stefan_: thanks for that
[17:30] <apachelogger> Lex79: or we could introduce a testing ppa
[17:30] <apachelogger> but really, that would be weird
[17:30] <claydoh> too many ppa's imo
[17:30] <stefan_> Lex79: coooool now i could even reinstall gwenview :)
[17:31] <stefan_> see you after reboot
[17:31] <Lex79> apachelogger: we have no time for do the backports, so we have no time really for testing. Since I do every time the backports alone
[17:31]  * claydoh emails -devel
[17:31] <apachelogger> Lex79: that needs to be fixed then
[17:31] <apachelogger> Lex79: also, "no time"?
[17:32] <apachelogger> as in, too little time between finishing lucid and kde release?
[17:33] <ScottK> Note to self: Save then commit.  Not the other way around.
[17:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: btw, bug 489616
[17:35] <ScottK> Good luck on that.
[17:38] <apachelogger> claydoh: btw about the too many ppas - bug 373197
[17:38] <stefan_> update worked great for me - thanks alot for your work :)
[17:38] <Lex79> apachelogger: I just know we need testers and put the stuff in staging is the better way for now. If you want move staging to private we should give access to private ppa
[17:38] <Lex79> and it's bad
[17:39] <Lex79> stefan_: you're welcome
[17:39] <apachelogger> hm
[17:39] <Lex79> and if you want add a new ppa "Testing"...for me is the same to have "staging" ppa
[17:39] <apachelogger> Lex79: well, doing staging out in the open is certainly no good either
[17:39] <Lex79> agree
[17:40] <Riddell> huh?  the whole point of staging is it's for building and testing
[17:40] <apachelogger> nono, staging is for building
[17:40] <apachelogger> not testing
[17:40] <Lex79> and make staging a private ppa ? :)
[17:40] <Riddell> also the point is it's out in the open since it's used to copy stuff to the for-users PPA, you can't copy from a private PPA
[17:40] <apachelogger> if a user does upgrade mid-staging his system might explode
[17:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: ScottK says copy from private to public is possible now
[17:41] <Lex79> Riddell: yes, now you can
[17:41] <Riddell> "PPA description For the love of the blue gears, DO NOT USE." that's pretty clear to me
[17:41] <ScottK> Apparently not clear enough for others.
[17:41] <Riddell> that's not what jules the soyuz man told me at UDS
[17:41] <Lex79> Riddell: users don't read the description
[17:42] <apachelogger> s/the description// ;)
[17:42] <ScottK> Riddell: I did copy stuff from the ninja PPA to staging.
[17:42] <ScottK> I guess we should make sure that's not just a bug that might get fixed at any time before relying on it.
[17:43] <Lex79> apachelogger: ? :)
[17:44] <binarylooks> Maybe keeping users updated about what is happening in the ppa or when they might expect a release might help a bit?
[17:45] <binarylooks> Its a little bit frustrating when opensuse users or chakra users or whatever can play around with the new stuff and kubuntu is behind
[17:46] <apachelogger> not so much when opensuse or chakra users run into upgrade problems :P
[17:46] <binarylooks> apachelogger: I admit I do not know how their upgrades went :-)
[17:47] <binarylooks> Anyway, I thought PPAs could be private, no?
[17:48] <binarylooks> If they shouldn't be used, hide them from impatient and sometimes clueless users
[17:57] <claydoh> binarylooks: as to others like arch, I just bunged up my young arch install trying to get kde 4.4, and I thought I had read enough info in order to do so
[17:58] <claydoh> so its not all peaches and cream everywhere else either :)
[17:59] <binarylooks> claydoh: u're right. patience is a virtue I do not have :-)
[18:00] <claydoh> but an honest use-at-your-own-risk ppa specifically for testing is probably vital for a future stable release
[18:01] <binarylooks> claydoh: thats why I started testing, but u never know if a bug u encounter is halbaked packaging or real
[18:02] <binarylooks> *halfbaked
[18:11] <claydoh> again with the 'bad packaging' meme :/, very popular today
[18:38] <amichair> just got a crash in lucid alpha, the crash reporting assistant doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to (e.g. allow me to report)...
[18:47] <apachelogger> maco: any progress on the kmess?
[18:47]  * apachelogger giggles
[19:02] <jussi01> hehe
[19:17] <Darkwing-Netbook> well, my desktop finally gave up the ghost again
[19:49] <markey> sabdfl: considering what is going on in GNOME currently (check Slashdot), I'd really rethink your choices. you're the boss, but the whole thing cannot possibly end well
[19:49] <markey> I'm just a lowly FOSS coder, but consider this as good advice :)
[19:59] <Sput> markey: the let's-split-off-from-GNU thing?
[19:59] <markey> that's part of it. I'm guess you are able to collect the whole picture
[20:00] <shtylman_> markey: I think its a big fuss over nothing
[20:01] <shtylman_> GNOME will still be GNU licensed
[20:01] <shtylman_> they just won't consider themselves part of the FSF or anything like that
[20:02] <shtylman_> the whole mess is just cause stallman wants to impose certain restrictions on what the GNOME people can or can't talk about on certain sites...etc
[20:02] <shtylman_> I have a feeling it will all blow over in a day or so
[20:02] <markey> we'll see about that.
[20:03] <markey> in reality, the whole conflict goes much deeper
[20:03] <markey> (if you have been following for the last years)
[20:03] <markey> this been coming
[20:03] <markey> has been*
[20:03] <Sput> indeed
[20:04] <Sput> I still think it's not a good idea to increasingly rely on mono, for instance
[20:04] <markey> it's easy to see what has been happening there, you don't have to be an analyst to tell
[20:04] <shtylman_> true
[20:05] <markey> they might be able to get out of this for now, or maybe not
[20:05] <markey> but the conflict will stay
[20:05] <shtylman_> well... I think lots of the reliance on mono stems from the fact that it makes using gtk bearable
[20:05] <shtylman_> the api are arguably cleaner in mono/c#
[20:05] <Sput> that is not an excuse, at all
[20:06] <Sput> if their toolkit is unbearable without resorting to proprietary solutions, maybe they should look into using another toolkit then
[20:06] <shtylman_> it may not be an excuse, but when a developer has to write an app... the time it takes to write that app matters
[20:06] <shtylman_> yea... but thats another debate and problem in and of itself
[20:06] <Sput> I personally can't understand why people wouldn't use Qt nowadays anyway, all GTK code I've seen made me wanting to poke my eyeballs out with a rusty spork
[20:06] <shtylman_> many will argue that you need to have a solid c gui toolkit
[20:07] <Sput> but if they're using mono, they're not using c
[20:07] <shtylman_> others will say those people are nuts and holding onto old times
[20:07] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for Sput
[20:07]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to Sput.
[20:07] <Quintasan> Sput: this just made my day :D
[20:07] <shtylman_> haha
[20:07] <Sput> :)
[20:07] <shtylman_> I mean...I think all of us here will like Qt over gtk... and truthfully... I do think Qt is far superior from an API standpoint
[20:08] <Quintasan> awesome, I was in a bad mood few seconds ago
[20:08] <Sput> and they have this Vala thing, which I personally find stupid, but apparently it makes using GTK bearable without being proprietary
[20:08] <shtylman_> but people have been using gtk and hacking it to fit their needs for a while
[20:08] <shtylman_> so many are just faimilar with it and don't see the issues
[20:08] <Sput> shtylman_: that could well be, but doesn't explain why they want to use C# then
[20:09] <Sput> either you love your toolkit and keep hacking on it because of that, or you use some completely new API, but then you could as well use a saner choice than proprietary crap
[20:09] <shtylman_> personally... the "hello world" example on the gtk and qt wikipedia pages tells me all I need to know about using qt over gtk
[20:09] <Sput> (and I'm calling Mono proprietary even though some people claim it's free :P)
[20:09] <shtylman_> its not really free
[20:09] <shtylman_> and it will never be up to the full c# spec... cause there ISN'T ONE
[20:10] <shtylman_> c# is an implementation
[20:10] <Sput> it's just ironic that the same guy who invented gNOme because Qt was supposedly not free enough is now brownnosing MS
[20:10] <shtylman_> its not like c++ which is a spec with many implementations
[20:10] <shtylman_> haha indeed
[20:10] <shtylman_> didn
[20:10] <shtylman_> *didn't think about that
[20:10] <Sput> it's the main beef I have with Miguel
[20:11] <Quintasan> speaking of it, why don't we just hack all computers with gtk source code and point whole data to /dev/null? :P
[20:11] <shtylman_> well..people do change their mind
[20:11] <Sput> if someone else would be doing Mono because he was being paid by MS or just for the fun of it, I'd say "yeah, well, another idiot getting lured over by MS"... but Miguel should know better
[20:11] <Sput> ah well.
[20:11] <Sput> I'm not using a DE that depends on Mono, thank $deity :)
[20:11] <shtylman_> heh
[20:12] <nixternal> 14:10:11 [      Sput] it's just ironic that the same guy who invented gNOme because Qt was supposedly not free enough is now brownnosing MS
[20:12] <nixternal> wow, I never even thought about that
[20:12] <Quintasan> damn I really lost feel of time
[20:12] <markey> all this is a petty Dick-Measuring contest. look at the big picture, there is more to it than technical implementation details
[20:12] <markey> ethical and technical sides
[20:12] <markey> all this plays together
[20:13] <markey> to form a complex symphony of hurt
[20:13] <shtylman_> I don't really use kde over gnome for any philosophical reasons... I find that kde works better for how I need to get things done and is more forward thinking... I also use Qt for my own things so in a way it makes sense to run the same toolkit and have things integrate well
[20:13] <nixternal> anyways, I could care less what GNOME does, as long as they choose a path that is good for everyone....right now we, KDE/Qt fanbois, need to concentrate on getting our market share back
[20:13] <Sput> nixternal: and it gets more ironic that a lot of gNOmies keep saying that Miguel wasn't gnome, and that he isn't in any way important for gnome, so whatever he does has no bearing on gnome... while at the same time he posts these things using his<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mail address
[20:14] <Quintasan> moar cookies for nixternal
[20:14] <Quintasan> more market share for us
[20:14] <Sput> working on that :)
[20:14] <Quintasan> also free n900 form Nokia for all of us :P
[20:14]  * Sput notes that he gets a lot of xchat users converted to Quassel lately
[20:14] <nixternal> before Ubuntu, KDE was where it was at, for so many using the desktop....now, with some mistakes made in the past, I think we need to stop licking our wounds (ie. 4.0) and look forward for KDE
[20:14]  * Quintasan wants a new phone, his nokia e61 is getting more and more boring
[20:15] <nixternal> whether brown eggs are better than blue eggs, lets have the users decide :D
[20:15] <Sput> nixternal: yeah, quite sad that ubuntu got popular enough by pushing the inferior toolkit/DE :/
[20:15] <Sput> just imagine ubuntu would've been KDE based from the start
[20:16] <nixternal> I was in the grocery store the other day, and they had brown eggs and blue eggs...I instantly said, "OOH! Ubuntu and Kubuntu eggs" :)
[20:16] <Quintasan> lol
[20:16] <Sput> somehow, our grocery stores don't have blue eggs.
[20:16] <shtylman_> Sput: althought we can all say imagine.. its not actually clear how it would have effected the community
[20:16] <Quintasan> Sput: I wanted to say we should brible Mark but I guess that's quite not possible ;P
[20:16] <Sput> shtylman_: true too
[20:17] <shtylman_> I can argue till the end of time about the merrits of Qt and whatnot... but it really depends on the developers canonical got and what they were happy and familiar with
[20:17] <Quintasan> hmm just crossed my mind, when the next UDS place will be disscussed?
[20:17]  * claydoh wants a phone or netbook for xmas, a full tank of heating oil, and for someone to politely smack the 'bad packaging' dude in -devel
[20:17] <Sput> shtylman_: in the end it depends on what kind of developers Canonical wants to pay
[20:17] <shtylman_> gnome has (in my mind) always been that DE that spawned cause people were uptight about licenses versus technological reasons... and truthfully... that was a valid concern at the time
[20:18] <nixternal> first, we need to get Kubuntu to the point where people are purchasing support contracts for it...once this happens, we might have more of a leg to stand on
[20:18] <shtylman_> Qt was not open source and the development was very closed off for a while
[20:18] <shtylman_> nixternal: indeed
[20:18] <Sput> ultimately all we can hope for is that sabdfl sees the writing on the wall in time and does a sane choice before all things GTK crumble down by their own :>
[20:18] <nixternal> we do have a commercial sponsor, and they have to make some money...it would be wonderful if Kubuntu helped make them some money...it will eventually benefit us all, and not just canonical
[20:19] <amichair> well who are the users we should be aiming for if we want that to happen?
[20:19] <Sput> I really don't see GTK having much relevance in the long term... Qt is technically much much superior, it runs on more platforms, Nokia is pouring insane amounts of money into its development while at the same time embracing the community
[20:19] <nixternal> GTK/GNOME will not crumble...they have way to strong of a foot print...they sat back and watched us release KDE 4.0...sure they giggled and poked fun at us, but they learned not to do the same with the upcoming 3.0 stuff they are working on
[20:20] <Sput> nixternal: all 3.0 is, apparently, is this new shell thing (which won't run on boxen without decent OpenGL support) and removed features
[20:20] <nixternal> heh, I said they have way to strong of a foot print, and their logo is a foot print :)
[20:20] <Sput> it's not even being based on GTK 3
[20:20] <nixternal> I crack myself up
[20:20] <claydoh> did we have a decent amount of commercial users pre-kde4?
[20:20] <nixternal> claydoh: unfortunately not
[20:21] <nixternal> we had the largest rollouts though
[20:21] <nixternal> but they weren't purchasing support contracts
[20:21] <Sput> this whole GNOME 3.0 thing is more and more appearing to me as a giant joke
[20:21] <nixternal> claydoh: sorry, I read your comment wrong...yes, we did have commercial users pre-KDE4...I was thinking support contracts :)
[20:21] <jussi01> nixternal: thats cause they didnt neeed them, we were that good :P
[20:22] <jjesse> are we all debating the whole gnome wants to move away from the gnu project story?
[20:22] <claydoh> nixternal: well I was thinking support contracts
[20:22] <nixternal> we had all of the educational stuff thanks to kde-edu, french parliament too which was really cool...and iirc Riddell worked with KDE and others on the educational stuff...if you look through is blog I think there is stuff about it somewhere
[20:22] <claydoh> so i asked it incorrectly
[20:22] <jjesse> in the azores?
[20:22] <nixternal> ahh, claydoh then no, in terms of contracts, Kubuntu didn't have it
[20:22] <nixternal> in terms of rollouts, we had it big time
[20:23] <jjesse> wasn't the kdeedu stuff rolled out in the azores?
[20:23] <nixternal> jjesse: yes
[20:23] <claydoh> but as   you said a significant base of large scale implementations
[20:23] <nixternal> I can't remember the name of the project, but it used Kubuntu
[20:23] <nixternal> it is/was a popular project too, just can't remember
[20:23] <nixternal> honestly, I don't see desktop support being a huge money maker for anyone
[20:23] <claydoh> we need to get Kubuntu ti be the KDE found on tv shows :)
[20:24] <nixternal> that is what Best Buy, CompUSA, and other local computer stores are for
[20:24] <claydoh> s/to/ti
[20:24] <shtylman_> nixternal: desktop support isn't a moneymaker if you think about desktop in the consumer sense
[20:24] <nixternal> claydoh: first we need to get KDE > 2.0 on the TV shows :)
[20:24] <shtylman_> in that sense desktop services are a money maker (thus ubuntu one)
[20:24] <nixternal> shtylman_: it is a money maker in the windows world
[20:25] <shtylman_> but desktop support is important for companies
[20:25] <jussi01> yeah, I agree with shtylman_ - look at google...
[20:25] <nixternal> usually companies have someone internal that can provide the desktop support
[20:26] <nixternal> shtylman_: exactly, gotta look to the services :)
[20:26] <nixternal> my best friends is one of the head haunchos for Best Buy in the United States
[20:27] <nixternal> he told me that they will never give marketing/promotional space to anyone over MS, because MS makes them money...he said they aren't making money on the product, but they are making a killing on the services with their Geek Squad
[20:27] <shtylman_> nixternal: its a money maker in the windows world simply because of the expectations I think. There are a broad number of people who buy windows boxes and then don't want to deal with them so they are likely to take them to a local shop to repairs and whatnot. The interesting thing about windows support is that more often than not they just format
[20:27] <nixternal> haha, R and R
[20:27] <shtylman_> the reason they make a killing is because of the high prices and people are SOL when their computer breaks
[20:28] <jjesse> the money is not in end user desktop support the money is in the corporate service contracts
[20:28] <nixternal> I was the support manager for CompUSA, and my reports always had R-AND-R, not rest and relaxation, but reformat and reinstall
[20:28] <shtylman_> yep
[20:28] <shtylman_> thats the SOP to fix a windows box
[20:28] <jjesse> and part of the delay on corporate deployments is the lack of managment tools and part lack of enterprise apps
[20:28] <shtylman_> even my own personal windows boxes for my parents
[20:28] <shtylman_> thats what I do
[20:28] <shtylman_> there is no "fixing" ... just clean install
[20:29] <nixternal> jjesse: didn't MS admit they aren't making a killing on their support options? MS support options are typically 3rd party right? as in you don't call MS and some person from MS comes out and fixes your stuff
[20:29] <jjesse> nixternal: mostly
[20:29] <nixternal> MS is making a killing on licensing agreements...ie. $2.5 billion in the state of Illinois
[20:29] <Sput> MS certainly earns a lot of money with certifications :)
[20:30] <jjesse> though really in the corporate world my support comes from a partner, IE HP, Dell, CDW, etc
[20:30] <jjesse> the benifit of MS is the partnership ecosystem
[20:30] <nixternal> Illinois was 99.9% a Red Hat state, but MS came in and told them lies and tried to make all kinds of so-called deals...Chicago tried to stop Illinois but it didn't work..and now MS uses Illinois as their #1 advertisement to the corporate world
[20:30] <jjesse> so if i want something done, i go to a MS Partner
[20:30] <jjesse> which is highly graded
[20:30] <nixternal> right
[20:31] <jjesse> i know red hat has partners, but there aren't many if any parthers in hte US for Ubuntu
[20:32] <nixternal> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/compare/flash/illinois/index.html
[20:32] <nixternal> see that shit?
[20:33] <jjesse> wow 13 partners in the united states
[20:33] <nixternal> MS came in and lied so bad...a few of the people who do the IT stuff for the state are in our LUG, and they are Linux people...they had to either get trained on Windows crap or were forced to leave their job
[20:34] <jjesse> the state of illionis is funny to deal w/ business wise :)
[20:34] <nixternal> illinois sucks!
[20:34] <nixternal> chicago is where it is at....the entire infrastructure is now red hat
[20:35] <nixternal> they switched so much they forced all of motorola to switch to red hat on the services they provide here
[20:35] <nixternal> so when you blow a red light, red hat is taking your picture and sending you a ticket in the mail
[20:35] <nixternal> damn I hate red hat!
[20:35] <nixternal> ;p
[20:36] <jjesse> go work for them :)
[20:36] <nixternal> I almost did, but not in computer world, in the marketing world
[20:41] <jjesse> ok so a somewhat silly? question one of the screws keeping my laptop hard drive in my computer is stripped out, what's the safest way to remove it?
[20:42] <nixternal> is the head stipped out?
[20:42] <jjesse> yeah i can't get a bite with my screw driver
[20:42] <nixternal> sears has small craftsman screw drivers that are for stripped heads
[20:43] <jjesse> i'm a cheap bastard though :)
[20:43] <nixternal> they aren't expensive...only a few bucks
[20:44] <jjesse> hrmm ok will have to make a trip to sears then
[20:44] <jjesse> could i drill it out?
[20:45] <amichair> jjesse: drilling a hard disk doesn't sound like a good idea...
[20:46] <amichair> unless it's an ssd, maybe
[20:46] <jjesse> just the screw on the back of my laptop case
[20:46] <jussi01> yeah, id recommend against the drilling
[20:47] <nixternal> http://store.b2bprofessionaltools.com/5247152470-jpg.html
[20:47] <nixternal> that's what you need jjesse ^^
[20:47] <nixternal> sears/craftsman doesn't seem to have them anymore
[20:48] <nixternal> ace hardware if it is a good one might have them...sears hardware might have them as they carry other than craftsman
[20:48] <jjesse> hrm will have to check
[20:48] <nixternal> if the ace hardware is a good one, it might have them
[20:48] <nixternal> they work wonders
[20:48] <amichair> aren't those jewler's screwdrivers?
[20:48] <nixternal> amichair: no, they just look like them
[20:49] <nixternal> the tip is like a drill, so it drills into the screw and bites into it
[20:49] <amichair> nixternal: interesting, so it's drill-in and then screw out?
[20:49] <nixternal> yes
[20:50] <amichair> cool
[20:50] <nixternal> I bought a set many many years ago when I was doing laptop repairs
[20:50] <nixternal> that's where HP/Compaq lappies are the win, they use torx and not phillip
[20:51] <yuriy> torx is a win?
[20:51] <yuriy> i always thought they use torx just to be sadistic
[20:51] <nixternal> yeah, they don't strip like conventional screws
[20:52] <nixternal> yuriy: nope, but you aren't the only one who thought that
[20:52] <jjesse> i have a 350 gb  hard drive i want to put in and replace my 150gb hard drive
[20:52] <nixternal> now using the torx on their desktops was a bit sadistic
[20:54] <amichair> nixternal: a search for "screw extractor" shows all the details - thanks for the tip :-)
[20:54] <nixternal> amichair: no prob ;)
[20:54]  * nixternal smells food and gets hungry...bbiaf :)
[21:07] <ghostcube> ehlo humans :)
[21:15] <Quintasan> ghostcube: sup?
[21:15] <ghostcube> not much, watching sensless tv shows :)
[21:15] <ghostcube> and you
[21:15] <Quintasan> I don't feel like doing anything until I receive the vote results from MOTU council :P
[21:16] <ghostcube> hahaha
[21:16] <ghostcube> its extrem quite in here
[21:16] <ghostcube> o.o
[21:16] <Quintasan> why?
[21:17] <ghostcube> heh no one typing o.o
[21:17] <ghostcube> :D
[21:17] <ghostcube> *quiet
[21:18] <Quintasan> I need to read up the dot and planet :P
[21:18] <Quintasan> thank $deity for RSS
[21:18] <ghostcube> heh
[21:18] <Quintasan> I would already be lost in this mass of information
[21:18] <ghostcube> any date for the beta 1 packages to be in backports ?
[21:18] <ghostcube> seen they still in staging
[21:19] <Quintasan> it actually didn't kill my lucid KVM as I as expecting :P
[21:19] <ghostcube> :)
[21:19] <amichair> anyone know if add-apt-repository is an officially supported utility? (as opposed to quick hack, or something for internal use etc.)
[21:20] <Quintasan> amichair: if it's installed by default I guess it is
[21:20] <ghostcube> is this in apt-tools ?
[21:20] <amichair> Quintasan: it's part of software-properties
[21:21] <amichair> it's 20 lines of code which do 1 thing. and have 6 bug reports on it, because it's functionality is lacking...
[21:22] <ghostcube> oi
[21:23] <amichair> so the question is, if this is a quick hack that should be defined as unsupported, or rather should be made really supported, with a definition of everything it should and shouldn't do, and bugs/features properly implemented...
[21:24] <amichair> JontheEchidna, Riddell: any idea ^^^? or who to forward the question to?
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> It's officially supported
[21:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: is there any documentation of what it's purpose is, what it should/shouldn't be doing? etc?
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> I think one of the bugs for that is that it has no docs :P
[21:34] <amichair> JontheEchidna: true... but that's user docs, not design docs :-)
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> Basically it's just a neat little command-line utility for adding repository entries
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> and also supporting ppa:/ urls
[21:35] <amichair> JontheEchidna: that much I can tell by looking at the tiny source
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> but yeah, that's basically it's scope as far as I can tell
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> If you have any further questions I'd suggest contacting mvo, who does most of the package tools stuff for ubuntu
[21:37] <amichair> the requested features are quite legitimate, like the option to remove entries etc... but without a clear definition, there's no telling what the scope is
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: I'm planning on doing a kdebase-runtime upload. Anything I should know about before I do so?
[22:17] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: I have to check, second
[22:30] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: also kdeplasma-addons should be uploaded
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/12/totem_pole.php
[22:40] <amichair> how bizzarre.
[22:41] <amichair> no, how bizarre.
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> grr, I can neither upload kdebase-runtime nor kdeplasma-addons, due to the incomplete set of packages a kubuntu-dev can upload to :(
[22:48] <amichair> JontheEchidna: need help in anything that I'm qualified to do?
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> I don't think you can help here, some higher-up has to update the set of packages kubuntu-devs can upload to
[22:49] <amichair> JontheEchidna: yeah, I mean in general :-)
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> mm, nothing springs to mind. (and chicken just arrived... bbl)
[22:49] <amichair> hehe
[23:23] <kallecarl> nixternal: just sent a mail to ubuntu-doc maillist about bzr. The issue is that I don't know how to update the repository directly, so I'm emailing the edited xmls.
[23:31] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Vaneer?content=116356  <- if we are going to go brown, lets go brown :)
[23:31] <nixternal> kallecarl: that's fine
[23:31] <nixternal> 'bzr pull' will update your local branch with what is in the main branch
[23:31] <nixternal> 'bzr ci' will locally commit your changes
[23:32] <nixternal> 'bzr push' will push your changes to a central repository...since you don't have commit rights to the main bzr branch, you can commit to a personal branch...under launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs, under branches, there should be info on how to push or where to push to
[23:36] <nixternal> http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/687/oxyfire.png  <- that is a pretty sweet firefox theme someone is working on
[23:36] <kallecarl> nixternal:can I commit to Dhillon's branch?
[23:37] <nixternal> no, you can commit to your own personal one though
[23:37] <nixternal> what is your lp username?
[23:37] <kallecarl> so emailing is best
[23:37] <kallecarl> carlsymons
[23:37] <nixternal> it is fine, don't know about the best :)
[23:37] <nixternal> try this
[23:37] <nixternal> bzr push lp:~carlsymons/kubuntu-docs
[23:38] <nixternal> I think that is the right way to do it
[23:38] <kallecarl> will you get that then?
[23:38] <kallecarl> probably ~carlsymons at the end of the URl
[23:39] <kallecarl> one other issue that might show up...there are several people editing
[23:39] <kallecarl> who resolves the edits? Too many cooks
[23:43] <nixternal> I do
[23:43] <nixternal> we have a lot of cooks right now, I love it, but I am the head chef :p
[23:43] <nixternal> NO! USE THESE MUSHROOMS!
[23:43] <kallecarl> the red ones with white spots
[23:43]  * maco passes nixternal some oyster mushroom
[23:43] <kallecarl> this is kubuntu after all
[23:43] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/KDE4+Google+Chrome+Theme+'Sky'?content=116811
[23:44] <nixternal> w00t! Oxygen theme for Chrome!!!
[23:45] <nixternal> it isn't the prettiest theme, but damnit it screams KDE!
[23:45]  * JontheEchidna haz
[23:45] <apachelogger> note the prettiest is a very political statement :P
[23:45] <nixternal> I am a very political person
[23:47] <nixternal> does anyone here use eric for their python coding?
[23:47] <maco> nah, we use ScottK
[23:47]  * maco ducks
[23:47] <jussi01> hehe
[23:48] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/KDE4+Google+Chrome+Theme+'Sky'?content=116811   <- woot, mono app for kde! hurry, lets get it in the repos!
[23:48] <apachelogger>  wrong ulry!!!!
[23:48] <apachelogger> + we already decided on getting it in yesterday :P
[23:49] <nixternal> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content=116886  <- nice
[23:49] <nixternal> oh damn, I did post the wrong earl
[23:49] <maco> hehe
[23:49]  * nixternal tries to load his lucid desktop
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> http://planet.gnome.org/please-hold/ <- a conspiracy :P
[23:54] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[23:57] <_Groo_> any dev alive?
[23:58] <_Groo_> i'm using radeon dri2/kms (im using for a long time now), since i upgraded to lucid with kde 4.4 beta 1 i cant activate compositing anymore. it works with compiz but not kwin.


[00:12] <banna> Hello! Anyone have any luck with the 20.04 x64 image torrent?
[00:18] <banna> okay, it looks like the tracker finally decided to respond!
[02:53] <Celso> 3 canais só
[03:39] <tf2ftw> Hi
[03:52] <tf2ftw> how do I upgrade to 20.04? I've done dist-upgrade by my sources.list is still pointing to bionic..
[03:58] <well_laid_lawn> !upgrade
[09:20] <CO2> Hello, I found a tiny little annoyance in 20.04 and I was wondering if this is worth reporting somewhere. If I open the program menu (xubuntu logo) on the bottom left, then start typing to search, e.g. "soft" to get the Software and the Software & Updates applications, and then press the down arrow key to start going down the list, I have to press the down arrow twice to get from the first
[09:20] <CO2> entry to the second. In 18.04 which I upgraded from I'm pretty sure I had to press it only once.
[09:20] <CO2> This way of opening things is burned into my finger memory so I noticed it immediately
[09:22] <diogenes_> !Whisker
[09:22] <diogenes_> !Whiskermenu
[09:24] <diogenes_> hmm nothing. Whiskermenu afaik is maintained by one person only.
[09:26] <CO2> found a bug list page for it here, I guess doesn't hurt to file it there https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?product=xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin&query_format=advanced
[10:00] <xubuntu28i> hi is it possible to use awesome in xubuntu ?
[10:01] <diogenes_> xubuntu28i, try and see.
[10:02] <xubuntu28i> ok
[10:13] <xu-irc15w> hello
[10:13] <diogenes_> hello
[10:14] <xu-irc15w> i just switched to xubuntu and im having a very specific problem with a drive not showing up can someone help me?
[10:18] <xu-irc15w> ?
[10:20] <brainwash> xu-irc15w: please provide some details
[10:21] <xu-irc15w> sure, i have an veracrypt encrypted hard drive, which was previously booting windows. Now i have xubuntu on the second drive and installed veracrypt to decrypt the first drive and wipe it so i can use it again, but it doesnt show up anywhere
[10:22] <xu-irc15w> i cant boot from it either or use it in any way since the windows install is completely bricked
[10:25] <brainwash> xu-irc15w: not sure how that is supposed to work
[10:26] <xu-irc15w> id just need to access the drive
[10:27] <xu-irc15w> would creating a raid volume help maybe?
[10:27] <brainwash> I found this https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Removable%20Medium%20Volume.html
[10:29] <xu-irc15w> hmm i cant even get the drive to show up in vera tho
[10:30] <xu-irc15w> well it says sdb and sda
[10:31] <xu-irc15w> but thats the same drive i guess
[10:33] <xu-irc15w> unless im completely misunderstanding the xubuntu naming here
[10:36] <Unit193> sda and sdb would normally be different drives, sda1 vs sda2 would be partitions.
[10:36] <Unit193> gparted is a partitio editor, it may help you see them better.
[10:36] <xu-irc15w> ahh thanks so much
[10:36] <sorinello> Hello. Any idea where can I see a list of xubuntu mirrors ? It seems that when I run do-release-upgrade, no new release are found.
[10:36] <Unit193> sorinello: On 18.04?
[10:37] <xu-irc15w> should i just try mounting the first drive then and see if it may have wiped itself in the install process?
[10:37] <Unit193> You can try to use veracrypt and mount whichever wasn't used for Linux, sure.
[10:37] <sorinello> Unit193, no, I am on xubuntu 19.10 and want to migrate to 20.04
[10:38] <xu-irc15w> awesome ima try that. maybe im lucky and it got wiped. it shows up as empty.
[10:38] <xu-irc15w> thanks so much :)
[10:38] <Unit193> sorinello: Usually it starts getting offered a day or two after release, to force it you can use '-d'
[10:39] <sorinello> Unit193, worked. thanks !
[10:39] <Unit193> Sure thing!
[10:41] <sorinello> Unit193, is possible that an Ubuntu (main operating system) to have mirrors in one place, and Xubuntu to NOT have in that place ? How are mirrors working ? do they contain ALL ubuntu flavors ?
[10:42] <Unit193> sorinello: This is metadata, there are no mirrors that I know of.  Otherwise, do you mean ISO or package?  If ISO, yeah you can only have one and not the other, but that's not possible for packages since it's the same repos.
[10:42] <Unit193> Check the file in /etc/update-manager/ (or /etc/update-notifier?  But pretty sure it's manager.)
[10:50] <sorinello> Unit193, no, not ISO. I am talking about packages and updates from software sources
[10:51] <Unit193> In regards to repositories, there's not much of a concept of flavors.  Closest you get is tasks.  So doesn't matter if you use Ubuntu server, Kubuntu, or Xubuntu.  Same repos.
[10:52] <Unit193> There's the Canonical ones, then external mirrors that are tracked on launchpad, and you can even use mirror:// to hit a round-robin of sorts.
[10:55] <Unit193> IIRC, that'd look like mirror://mirrors.ubuntu.com/US.txt focal main universe restricted multiverse
[10:55] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[10:57] <sorinello> ah ok. the mirror I am using is reported to be one week behind
[10:58] <sorinello> looking ar archivemirrors, your last link
[11:00] <Unit193> You could just update that to hit one of the mirrors for your region rather than a specific one.  You should at least be more likely to hit up to date stuff. :)
[11:09] <xu-irc17w> hello is there a way to disable having to authenticate and put in my password for literally everything i do?
[11:22] <xu-irc17w> anyone? i cant find anything online
[11:28] <Unit193> When you say "everything", can you give some examples?
[11:28] <Unit193> So, running system updates should prompt you, opening firefox shouldn't.
[11:29] <xu-irc17w> uninstalling and installing programs
[11:29] <xu-irc17w> im fine with system stuff
[11:29] <xu-irc17w> just having to type it in everytime i uninstall something is tedious
[11:29] <Unit193> Uninstalling and installing packages is indeed a system task.
[11:29] <xu-irc17w> oh so theres no way around that?
[11:30] <Unit193> I suppose there could be, but is something the matter that causes you to install/uninstall things so often?
[11:30] <xu-irc17w> im just setting it up for the first time, so im cleaning stuff out i dont need
[11:30] <xu-irc17w> since i never used linux
[11:32] <Unit193> If you have a GUI such as synaptic open, it will only prompt you when you open synaptic, not for each un/install.
[11:33] <xu-irc17w> im using the built in software program and it prompts me every time
[11:36] <xu-irc17w> is that synaptic manager better?
[11:41] <Unit193> It's not as pretty and shiny (It's also perhaps not as friendly for a user starting out), but it does tend to show more info and whatnot.
[11:41] <xu-irc17w> ok coll thanks for the help. have a good one
[11:41] <xu-irc17w> cool*
[12:07] <tf2ftw> Did the blue icons go away with the 20.04 update?
[12:07] <tf2ftw> My icons are light orange now
[12:11] <sorinello> Unit193, switched to "Download from: Main Server" still no update found. I will wait some days, I think it will eventually pop out
[12:12] <brainwash> tf2ftw: that is what happened
[12:13] <tf2ftw> brainwash, thanks. bummed it did but glad to know my system didn't get borked during the update
[12:14] <brainwash> tf2ftw: https://github.com/elementary/icons/pull/634
[12:15] <tf2ftw> Cool.
[12:17] <brainwash> but it's true, it will take some time to get used to the new coloring :)
[12:27] <adder> hello, does 'xset s blank' do something for you on new xubuntu?
[12:27] <adder> nothing happens here, that's why i'm asking
[12:28] <adder> also in the power manager, if i try to set it to show blank screen after n minutes, nothing happens after n minutes have passed
[12:46] <xu-irc4w> hello, i cant get wine to work. no matter where i put the exe or what commands i use it cant find it. I even get the error that the file doesnt exist even when just looking for it normally ur using the cp command to put it elsewhere. I tried installing some libraries that other users suggested to fix it but it seems completely bugged
[12:50] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, how did you install wine?
[12:53] <xu-irc4w> via the commands provided on the wine website
[12:53] <xu-irc4w> but i cant even find my file normally it just says that theres "no such file or directory"
[12:54] <xu-irc4w> wine itself seems to be working, i dont have it showing up under software, but it created the hidden windows directory
[12:54] <xu-irc4w> diogenes_
[12:54] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, the command to install wine is: sudo apt install wine
[12:55] <diogenes_> that's it.
[12:55] <xu-irc4w> https://wiki.winehq.org/Ubuntu thats what i did
[12:55] <xu-irc4w> is there a way to uninstall it?
[12:56] <xu-irc4w> or should i just run ur command over it
[12:57] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, you did a complete mess and you should have asked here first.
[12:57] <xu-irc4w> i know i just thought the official wine website would give the proper instructions lol
[12:59] <xu-irc4w> so what do i do now
[12:59] <coconut> xu-irc4w: *always* consider your default repo first when installing things
[12:59] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, the information you find on winehq or other upstream sites is for unstable or developers or it requires experience, i mean the person must know exactly what the commands do and what impact it would have on their system.
[13:00] <xu-irc4w> oh ok i didnt know that
[13:00] <xu-irc4w> im just going after what i find online and what makes sense
[13:01] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, that's a mistake we all made at the beginning of our linux journey but do not do that anymore, what you can do now is to run in terminal the following command: ls /usr/bin | grep wine
[13:01] <diogenes_> then copy the output and pastebin it.
[13:01] <diogenes_> !pastebin
[13:01] <diogenes_> and share the link here.
[13:01] <xu-irc4w> ok 1 sec
[13:02] <xu-irc4w> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zsKY8rjTF4/
[13:05] <xu-irc4w> i also did all that stuff https://superuser.com/questions/344533/no-such-file-or-directory-error-in-bash-but-the-file-exists
[13:10] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, and now run the following command: find / -type f ! -path '*/home/yourusername/*' 2>/dev/null | grep winehq
[13:10] <diogenes_> and pastebin the output.
[13:11] <xu-irc4w> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tR2sRzHybW/
[13:14] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, and now: grep -r --include '*.list' '^deb ' /etc/apt/sources.list*
[13:16] <xu-irc4w> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zRYjqfM3Cm/
[13:17] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, so you have repositories from focal and installed from eoan PPA, that's a big problem.
[13:18] <xu-irc4w> idk what that means :D
[13:19] <xu-irc4w> is there a way to fix it or should i just reinstall the os
[13:19] <coconut> xu-irc4w: it is a mix of repo's for different ubuntu releases, which never works...
[13:19] <xu-irc4w> oh...
[13:20] <diogenes_> now run: pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY mousepad /etc/apt/sources.list
[13:20] <diogenes_> remove the following line: deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ eoan main
[13:20] <diogenes_> save, close and run: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[13:21] <xu-irc4w> done
[13:22] <diogenes_> and now run: sudo apt purge wine && sudo apt autoremove
[13:22] <diogenes_> reboot after that and after reboot install wine with: sudo apt install wine
[13:22] <xu-irc4w> ok awesome thanks so much
[13:23] <diogenes_> that doesn't guarantee anything but that's a try.
[13:23] <xu-irc4w> one more thing, is it bad that i did "sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386" it apparently enables 32 bit architecture
[13:23] <diogenes_> not a bad thing at all.
[13:24] <xu-irc4w> great at least i did something right haha
[13:24] <xu-irc4w> alright ima reboot now, thanks again. ill be back if i need anything else
[13:24] <xu-irc4w> have a great day!
[13:24] <diogenes_> you too
[13:32] <deadrom> hi
[13:59] <gareppa> i have 2 keyboard layouts on my systems, during the update to 20.04 i set it up so that by pressing caps lock, the layout changes. how do i revert this configuration back to default?
[15:05] <xu-irc4w> hello is there a way to completely wipe a drive?
[15:05] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, yes.
[15:05] <xu-irc4w> how?
[15:06] <diogenes_> with gparted or gnome-disk-utility.
[15:07] <xu-irc4w> does gparted also do random writes or just delete it in one go?
[15:13] <diogenes_> xu-irc4w, gparted can't wipe, gnome-disk-utility can.
[15:17] <xu-irc4w> could u tell me how to install that, pls?
[15:18] <diogenes_> sudo apt install gnome-disk-utility
[15:19] <xu-irc4w> thanks!
[15:19] <diogenes_> np
[17:42] <xu-irc89w> hello im trying to install xubuntu on a bios raid0 volume consisting of 2 drives. The Installation fails and tells me it cant create a boot loader, and i cant continue no matter which option i choose. Is it possible to just install it on that bios raid volume or do i need a work around?
[17:44] <Duane44> test
[17:49] <xu-irc89w> anyone?
[18:14] <fyrri> I'm running xubuntu 18.04 - was the 'do-release-upgrade' supposed to work yet, or is there somesort of a waiting period before the upgrade works?
[20:05] <xu-irc22w> Hello, I'm trying to upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04, but I am not getting an upgrade message on Software Updater
[20:36] <Unit193> sorinello: As noted, for a release (`do-release-upgrade`) it's not searching mirrors anyway.
[20:38] <johndoo> hi guys, I use the 16.04 LTS version of xubuntu and I would like to upgrade to 18 or better, but the software updater doesn't work... It notify me that I could upgrade to 18.04 but when I click on upgrade it close itself and nothing happens...
[20:41] <johndoo> if I do a "sudo apt dist-upgrade" it tells me that there are "0 upgraded 0 newly installed 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded"
[20:55] <Unit193> dist-upgrade isn't for release jumping, it's for normal updates.  Perhaps instead try `do-release-upgrade`?
[20:56] <johndoo> yes, I was doing just that and with that command it appears to work...
[20:57] <johndoo> I wonder why it doesn't work with the software updater GUI
[20:57] <johndoo> anyway, thanks Unit193 ;)
[21:00] <Unit193> You can run the GUI upgrader from the terminal and see if it crashes or gives you any other feedback.  Also, you'll be jumping to 18.04 LTS, though 20.04 LTS just came out.
[21:04] <johndoo> well,  yes that's a good idea, but I think now it's better to not stop the upgrade process...
[21:05] <Unit193> Hah, yeah very much so.  Good luck!
[21:09] <johndoo> Thanks! Are there significant improvements in the 20.04 ? I mean, from the screenshots it looks the same... Is there an improved XFCE?
[21:16] <Goksu> Hello everyone. I have an issue where I cannot login after the screensaver is activated. I keep getting the login prompt. did the .Xauthority and /tmp folder fix. Did not work. Now have done an update to Focal/20.04 but issue persists. Now the login screen changes to another theme after first atempt. Running Xubuntu. I think I am doing something wrong because this did happen before and I had to reinstall was so frustrated. Can you poi
[21:16] <Goksu>  me in the right direction please. I have no clue.
[21:19] <Unit193> johndoo: It has Xfce 4.14, which for one thing handles dual monitors better.
[21:22] <Unit193> Goksu: What screen locker are you using at this point?
[21:23] <johndoo> Unit193: thanks. I don't know if I should upgrade to 20.04 soon after the 18.04 LTS... Maybe is it better to wait some months? I'm for stability...
[21:27] <Unit193> johndoo: Yeah, as a LTS user you won't be offered until the first point release in a couple months.
[21:29] <johndoo> ok thanks!
[21:37] <Rukkooon> Hello. I installed UbuntuStudio and every reboot it changes my display settings back to [-] mirror displays. any way to prevent that?I made a profile so i can quickly revert to the proper settings. But would be nice if i would not have to do that every reboot so any tips would be appreciated.
[21:37] <Rukkooon> I found something about editting Monitors.xml but that file is not where they said it would be so i gave up on that.
[21:40] <Rukkooon> Another thing i cant get working is edge-resistance or sticky-edges. Googled several stuffs. (UbuntuStudio 2020 LTS)
[21:41] <Rukkooon> That's where when your mouse hist the border between two screens there is s resistance so it doesn't go to the next screen directly.
[21:45] <Goksu> @Unit193: I have no clue.
[21:47] <Unit193> Goksu: dpkg -l | grep -e locker -e screensaver   ?
[21:47] <Rukkooon> ok tried some setting gonna reboot to test.. brb
[21:52] <Goksu> dpkg -l | grep -e locker -e screensaver shows two. light-locker 1.8.0-1ubuntu1 and xfce4-screensaver 0.1.10-oubuntu1.
[21:52] <Unit193> Purge the former.
[21:53] <Goksu> I have disabled the screen lock to be able to continue using the machine. will purge the first one now.
[21:54] <Goksu> Unit193 is there anything else I should do?
[21:57] <Rukkoon> Okay i fixed the display thing. Only problem i have now is that i want edge resistance as i said above (Can't see it myself coz i relogged to test the other fix)
[21:58] <Rukkoon> I have seen it called 'sticky edges' and also 'edge resistance' i think.
[22:09] <Unit193> Goksu: Ensure it's not still running, then see if that works out better for you.
[22:11] <Goksu> Unit193: It seems that the keyboard does not come online right after logging in at the screensaver. would that be related?
[22:13] <Unit193> Doesn't sound ideal.
[22:13] <Goksu> Unit193: the cursor is not visible and does not blink. but opening another app or window activates it. annoying.
[22:18] <Goksu> sorry. killed my desktop manager while killing the screensaver
[22:32] <erlands> Hi. First time here. I have just installed xubuntu  20.04 LTS. In Thunar under "Browse Network" I'm not able to browse windows network. Message: Failed to open "Windows Network". Any ideas?
[22:39] <P-Chan> Guys does is possible to upgrade from mint 18 to xubuntu focal fossa?
[22:40] <Unit193> Nope, need to re-install when changing distros.
[22:48] <erlands> Hi. Is my connection working?
[22:49] <erlands> Anybody here?
[22:56] <dl036> Mamquam898
[22:57] <dl036> sorry.. trying to change my nick
[23:14] <Goksu> Seems my problem is resolved. I at least do not need to do a forced reboot each time the screensaver activates. Thanks Unit193 for the help. very much appreciated!
[23:14] <Unit193> Goksu: Glad I was able to help!
[23:54] <HenryG> I am unable to install 20.04 in a VirtualBox VM under Windows. https://imgur.com/a/WB0Y8i0
[23:55] <HenryG> I have downloaded twice and checked the shasum.
[23:57] <Unit193> ...Odd.
[23:57] <Unit193> It doesn't let you continue?
[23:59] <HenryG> It does, then fails


[16:58]  * slangasek waves
[16:59]  * foggalong waves back
[16:59]  * stgraber waves from Bucharest
[16:59]  * mdeslaur waves
[17:00] <infinity> o/
[17:01] <mdeslaur> ok, let's get started
[17:01] <mdeslaur> #startmeeting
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  8 17:01:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:01] <mdeslaur> [topic] Apologies
[17:01] <mdeslaur> none
[17:01] <mdeslaur> [topic] Action review
[17:01] <infinity> defer
[17:01] <mdeslaur> infinity: both?
[17:02] <infinity> Without looking, yes.  It's been one of those months.
[17:02] <mdeslaur> ack
[17:02] <mdeslaur> ACTION: mdeslaur to look into flavour CVE tracking
[17:02] <mdeslaur> I updated and fixed the tracking scripts
[17:02] <mdeslaur> results are here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/flavors.html
[17:02] <mdeslaur> while there still may be improvements and adjustments, I think the action item is completed
[17:03] <slangasek> nice!
[17:03] <infinity> mdeslaur: I assume the second link for each flavour includes main?
[17:03] <infinity> Or includes closed?
[17:03] <mdeslaur> that's the intention, but some main packages are showing up in the first link
[17:04] <mdeslaur> I need to fix that
[17:04] <infinity> Well, it's probably a good enough state to move to a second step of pointing the flavour folks at it, so they can start shouldering some responsibility there.
[17:04] <slangasek> mdeslaur: feature request: summary counts on the top-level page :)
[17:05] <mdeslaur> infinity: ok, let me see if I can quickly fix the main issue and then we(I) can send out an email
[17:05] <mdeslaur> slangasek: ack
[17:06] <mdeslaur> [topic] budgie-remix/ubuntu budgie: package-set maintainer application -fossfreedom
[17:07] <slangasek> fossfreedom: hi there
[17:07] <mdeslaur> so...doesn't that a DMB topic?
[17:07] <fossfreedom> Hi !
[17:07] <mdeslaur> hi fossfreedom!
[17:07] <mdeslaur> hi HEXcube
[17:07] <slangasek> for the packageset, yes, that's rightly a DMB topic
[17:07] <HEXcube> Hi
[17:08] <mdeslaur> right
[17:08] <slangasek> fossfreedom, HEXcube: for the packageset topic, can we redirect you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard ?
[17:08] <fossfreedom> ok thanks.  will read etc.
[17:08] <mdeslaur> [topic] budgie-remix/ubuntu official community flavour application - fossfreedom
[17:08] <slangasek> creating the packageset itself should be non-controversial, provided the TB gives its +1 to the second topic
[17:09] <mdeslaur> fossfreedom: so, can you give us the status on getting all your packages in the archive?
[17:10] <slangasek> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2016-October/002261.html
[17:10] <fossfreedom> ok - all packages are now in zesty ... except one which requires a version number update.  I've resubmitted that and awaiting a review
[17:10] <slangasek> I was pleased to see a number of these packages go into the archive before 16.10 released
[17:11] <fossfreedom> can I say thanks to jeremy bica and daniel holbach for helping here
[17:12] <slangasek> fossfreedom: what is the remaining package, and where have you submitted it for review?  (not a blocker for us approving you, but I would like to help make sure it's on track)
[17:12] <fossfreedom> let me give you the link...
[17:13] <fossfreedom> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1594596
[17:13] <fossfreedom> "arc-firefox-theme" -
[17:14] <slangasek> thanks
[17:14] <slangasek> you seem to be doing all the right things to get integrated as an official flavor
[17:15] <infinity> Are there preliminary seeds and metapackages?
[17:15] <slangasek> there are some technical integration points that need to be followed through on ^^ to be truly official
[17:15] <slangasek> the fact that searching wiki.ubuntu.com for 'official flavo[u]rs' returns no results seems like a bug
[17:15] <slangasek> anyone else know if we have a wiki page somewhere documenting the requirements?
[17:16] <infinity> Not sure if we do, or if it just comes up as people try to integrate. :P
[17:16] <stgraber> I thought we did
[17:16] <slangasek> I thought we did also
[17:17] <mdeslaur> I only know of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors
[17:17] <stgraber> was going to link to that one
[17:17] <slangasek> aha!
[17:17] <stgraber> that's the one I remembered
[17:17] <mdeslaur> seems like it has what we're looking for
[17:17] <slangasek> thanks, adding some redirects
[17:18] <infinity> Yeah.  That's what their presentation referenced as well, I'd say.
[17:18] <infinity> It doesn't have gritty technical details like seeds/metas, though.
[17:18] <slangasek> ah right, this was the chicken and egg thing where TB had to approve it first ;)
[17:18] <infinity> Just higher level commitment and staffing type things.
[17:19] <slangasek> infinity: yeah, that's buried under "release team agrees to help do the work"
[17:19] <slangasek> so
[17:19] <infinity> And, indeed, I don't expect them to have it all ready before approval, just to have looked at how it works and know what they're getting into.
[17:19] <slangasek> I feel a strong urge to bikeshed the process documented on that page
[17:19] <infinity> I'm shocked.
[17:20] <slangasek> but in the meantime, I don't think it should block us from blessing budgie
[17:20] <slangasek> others?
[17:20] <slangasek> infinity: ;)
[17:20] <infinity> I find it hard to have opinions about flavors until I've worked with them for 6-12 months.  Can we write a process document for firing them? ;)
[17:21] <mdeslaur> Does anyone have any thing else they would like to ask them before we vote?
[17:21] <infinity> But their presentation seems to address what the wiki's looking for.
[17:21] <infinity> The only nit would be the "upload rights" thing, which seems to be a bit of a question mark.
[17:21] <stgraber> infinity: you can write that process and then try it with Edubuntu :)
[17:21] <infinity> Since creating a package set doesn't do much without someone to give rights to.
[17:22] <slangasek> infinity: right - should we require the DMB review first?
[17:22] <mdeslaur> we can make the approval conditional on it
[17:22] <infinity> Yeah, that.
[17:23] <infinity> But unless there's a long history of sponsored uploads, etc, it's not exactly a slam-dunk when someone comes along and says "I want upload rights to a bunch of packages".
[17:23] <infinity> (Maybe there is a history, I haven't been watching)
[17:24] <mdeslaur> ok, so DMB review first?
[17:24] <infinity> Anyhow, I'd be fine with approving the flavour, conditional on approval of uploaders, and a solid time commitment from the lead that they'll be able to work with the cdimage/release folks to get integrated with seedy things and the like.
[17:25] <slangasek> I agree with infinity
[17:25] <infinity> I don't think punting them to the DMB without a decision here is helpful, it'll just end up in a loop.
[17:25] <mdeslaur> ok, let's vote for a conditional approval
[17:25] <slangasek> I don't want us to bounce them back and forth between committee meetings for months at a time
[17:26] <infinity> Feel free to copy/waste my above vomit as the vote question. :P
[17:26] <mdeslaur> [VOTE] Budgie-remix becoming an official flavour, conditional on approval of uploaders by the DMB
[17:26] <meetingology> Please vote on: Budgie-remix becoming an official flavour, conditional on approval of uploaders by the DMB
[17:26] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[17:26] <slangasek> +1
[17:26] <meetingology> +1 received from slangasek
[17:26] <mdeslaur> +1
[17:26] <meetingology> +1 received from mdeslaur
[17:27] <infinity> I'll try to make the appropriate DMB meeting to provide some continuity to the discussion.
[17:27] <infinity> +1
[17:27] <meetingology> +1 received from infinity
[17:27] <stgraber> +1
[17:27] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[17:27] <mdeslaur> [ENDVOTE]
[17:27] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Budgie-remix becoming an official flavour, conditional on approval of uploaders by the DMB
[17:27] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[17:27] <meetingology> Motion carried
[17:27] <mdeslaur> yay, congrats!
[17:27] <infinity> Err, s/budgie-remix/ubuntu-budgie/
[17:27] <infinity> But yeah.
[17:27] <mdeslaur> oh, woops :P
[17:27] <infinity> Or budgebuntu, or whatever.
[17:28] <fossfreedom> all - many thanks on behalf of the team - Ubuntu Budgie!
[17:28] <infinity> I think they stated a preference for Ubuntu Budgie, though. :)
[17:28] <slangasek> fossfreedom: welcome :)
[17:28] <foggalong> Thank you!
[17:28] <slangasek> (ubudgtu)
[17:28] <HEXcube> Yeah, Ubuntu Budgie!
[17:28] <Udara> Thank you very much !
[17:29] <foggalong> It'll always be Bubuntu in my heart
[17:29] <HEXcube> Thanx a lot! 😃
[17:29] <mdeslaur> [topic] drop the powerpc port
[17:29] <mdeslaur> infinity: you'll need to buy a new workstation
[17:29] <infinity> :P
[17:29] <slangasek> oh man was that the holdup?
[17:29] <mdeslaur> yep, our sole remaining user
[17:29] <slangasek> we can take up a collection
[17:30] <infinity> Yeah, not true. :P
[17:30] <doko> well, he still can put them into heating mode without security updates ...
[17:30] <mdeslaur> hehe
[17:30] <infinity> While I do have some PPC kit here at my feet, I'm not the sole user.
[17:30] <infinity> I had someone asking me this morning if we were dropping the port due to Debian's announcement.
[17:30] <infinity> I said I didn't think we had plans to.
[17:31] <infinity> Then I read doko's agenda point. :P
[17:31] <slangasek> well, it's been a discussion point before now
[17:31] <slangasek> I don't expect this to be decided by the TB in this meeting
[17:31] <doko> if you want a new toy, do x32 ;)
[17:31] <infinity> Ick.
[17:31] <slangasek> but I do think we ought to help guide the discussion
[17:32] <infinity> So, long term, I think we should aim to drop *all* 32-bit ports.
[17:32] <infinity> For reasons too long to list.
[17:32] <slangasek> I understand that the question will also be raised on the ubuntu-server list
[17:32] <infinity> But short term, PPC is the most obvious candidate to drop, if we feel we should drop something.
[17:33] <slangasek> yes, and there've been discussions about winding down i386 also
[17:33] <slangasek> so it's not as if we're picking on powerpc disproportionately :)
[17:33] <mdeslaur> I feel like this depends on how many people step up to volunteer maintaining it
[17:33] <infinity> From a maintenance perspective, it's not a huge burden.  The problems are generally in leaf compilers (fpc!) that most users don't actually care about.
[17:33] <infinity> ie: we could just not care about those issues, and it wouldn't actually matter.
[17:33] <doko> define "step up" ...
[17:33] <mdeslaur> well, commit :P
[17:34] <infinity> Define "maintain" is the better question.
[17:34] <slangasek> I contest the claim that it's not a huge burden; there's a diffuse cost that is invisible to those who care about the arch, and which has never been measured
[17:34] <doko> I don't want to end up with people claiming, without doing. and that's the case for powerpc for a long time
[17:35] <mdeslaur> I do believe the burden will become greater if Debian isn't doing it anymore
[17:35] <slangasek> infinity: packages that FTBFS and stall proposed-migration can't just be ignored.  There are generally some arch specific for each !x86 arch at any given moment, and it costs attention to fix these
[17:35] <infinity> doko: The implication there is either that something's very broken, or that you've been fixing all the bugs.  Are either of those true?
[17:36] <slangasek> would we be ok with a policy by the AA team to unconditionally remove powerpc binaries whenever they're seen to hold up migrations?
[17:36] <infinity> slangasek: Yes, this is true.  And sometimes it's PPC-specific.  Rarely, but sometimes.
[17:37] <infinity> slangasek: If removals aren't done haphazardly in a way that bumps the uninstallability count, sure.
[17:38] <slangasek> ok
[17:38] <doko> I don't agree about the "sometimes". everybody has to look at migrations, ftbfs, etc ...
[17:38] <slangasek> mdeslaur: I can take an action with my AA hat to draft a proposed policy around this to ubuntu-release, as a first step
[17:38] <mdeslaur> ok
[17:38] <doko> look at mono for xenial, look at openjdk failures, continue that list
[17:38] <doko> who is still using that?
[17:39] <doko> taht port?
[17:39] <mdeslaur> [ACTION] slangasek to draft a proposed AA policy to ubuntu-release about removing powerpc binaries that hold up migrations
[17:39] <meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to draft a proposed AA policy to ubuntu-release about removing powerpc binaries that hold up migrations
[17:40] <mdeslaur> we can revisit this once we have a list of powerpc binaries that have been removed
[17:40] <doko> so when gcc and binutils stop building, can we remove these from the archive then?
[17:41] <mdeslaur> if nobody fixed them, the choice will be easy
[17:41] <infinity> doko: Short of your making them not build, is that going to happen?
[17:42] <doko> infinity: well, look at the gcc-snapshot ftbfs during the past ... it costs time to look at those, prepare test cases, forward them
[17:42] <doko> who else is doing this work?
[17:42] <slangasek> fwiw there are 22 packages stalled in zesty-proposed at the moment due to powerpc-specific build failures
[17:42] <slangasek> (plus a smattering of 32-bit build failures, and big-endian build failures)
[17:42] <mdeslaur> ouch, that's a lot
[17:43] <slangasek> mdeslaur: not compared to the total -proposed count of 775; but that's another story
[17:43] <infinity> A large chunk of those are all in the same package set.
[17:43] <mdeslaur> sure, but it means _someone_ has to fix 22 packages currently, and that will only get worse
[17:43] <infinity> And dep-wait.
[17:43] <doko> for openjdk-9, powerpc will be the only port still needing the zero vm. who will maintain that?
[17:44] <infinity> doko: openjdk-9 appears to be broken on armhf too.
[17:44] <slangasek> mdeslaur: well, it ebbs and flows.  I don't expect it to increase much in the near term, and indeed we do already remove binaries to unblock migration when it's clear no one's fixing them
[17:44] <doko> sure, but that one has a hotspot port now. oracle open sourced it
[17:46] <mdeslaur> I don't feel comfortable deciding today whether we should remove it or not without it being proposed somewhere and seeing objections
[17:46] <slangasek> doko: "who else is doing the work" - I'm not sure this question is the right way around.  powerpc is a community port; do you feel an obligation to do this work yourself, and if so, why?
[17:47] <doko> slangasek: I can't finish my work if I ignore powerpc issues which hinder migration and ftbfs
[17:47] <infinity> slangasek: So, looking at your analysis, I see a bunch of 32-bit, a few big-endian, a few ppc* (ie: both ports), and so far two powerpc-only (though with chain reactions, like kodi*)
[17:48]  * doko wonders why powerpc ports are doing that analysis only now ...
[17:49] <doko> slangasek: please could you point out who is "powerpc community"?
[17:49] <slangasek> doko: but you shouldn't have to carry water for the powerpc community; and the powerpc community shouldn't have to track status in 100 different places to know what might be blocking you.  shouldn't there be an escalation path for letting a community port's community know about blocking issues, with deadlines for dropping if they don't fix?
[17:50] <infinity> (I would argue that gcc-snapshot doesn't belong on a list of packages that need to be fixed urgently to avoid port death)
[17:51] <slangasek> infinity: sure, in that case I think the real deadline is "when it stops being snapshot"
[17:51] <doko> no, but then it makes death easier when going to the next compiler version
[17:51] <infinity> Except that the stable release process includes porters testing and sorting issues.
[17:51] <infinity> The daily snapshot process doesn't.
[17:51] <infinity> (Maybe it should, but I don't control gcc upstream)
[17:52] <doko> powerpc isn't neith a primary nor secondary GCC release architecture
[17:52] <infinity> The port maintainers still test, submit results, and fix issues.
[17:52] <mdeslaur> doko: so ignore ftbfs on powerpc, and ask an AA to unblock migrations
[17:53] <mdeslaur> and when it bitrots to the point where it doesn't make sense anymore, we'll kill it
[17:53] <slangasek> doko: but I agree with infinity's point here - failures in gcc-snapshot, or failures of packages to build /with/ gcc-snapshot, are not a measure of the health of a port
[17:53] <doko> infinity: who is "port maintainers"?
[17:53] <infinity> I don't recall who the gcc powerpc port maintainer is right now.
[17:53] <slangasek> mdeslaur: that still puts a burden on the broader team, which we don't currently measure
[17:53] <infinity> I assume someone IBMish.
[17:54] <doko> no, not that much interested anymore
[17:54] <mdeslaur> slangasek: to unblock migrations?
[17:54] <slangasek> doko: I do think that you should treat snapshot-related failures as something to signal to the powerpc community, but not take responsibility for fixing yourself (unless you want to)
[17:54] <slangasek> mdeslaur: yes
[17:55] <mdeslaur> can we get an arch disabled from migration blockages?
[17:55] <slangasek> mdeslaur: 1) someone has to notice the migration is blocked, 2) an AA has to remove binary packages, recursively
[17:55] <slangasek> we can, but that's equivalent to saying the port doesn't matter
[17:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: Yes, but that does more harm than good.
[17:55] <doko> slangasek: no, I'm not going to present every issue on a silver tablet to the powerpc porters, and the powerpc porters aren't doing that themself
[17:55] <slangasek> infinity: well, depending on who's measuring the harm and the good. it certainly does save AA time ;)
[17:56] <infinity> slangasek: The way britney's implemented, it does far more harm than good. :P
[17:56] <infinity> (Even to !ppc)
[17:56] <mdeslaur> infinity: if the powerpc community steps up and starts fixing packages, we can always revert
[17:56] <doko> so please can we first define: who are powerpc users?  who are powerpc porters (together with a track of work being done)?
[17:57] <slangasek> doko: ok, if pointing out snapshot problems to the powerpc porters is itself burdensome, then what is the way that they can subscribe to be notified of the failures?
[17:58] <doko> slangasek: watch ftbfs, excuses on a daily basis, fix issues
[17:59] <slangasek> doko: that's something completely different from gcc-snapshot
[17:59] <slangasek> which was what I was asking about
[17:59] <infinity> "on a daily basis" is an unrealistic thing to ask anyone to do, even if it was their job.
[17:59] <doko> slangasek: I don't see this as different. why single out one package?
[17:59] <infinity> I suspect xnox doesn't check excuses for s390x issues every day either.
[18:00] <slangasek> doko: I thought you were talking about test rebuilds using gcc-snapshot, not just build failures /of/ gcc-snapshot.  The latter doesn't seem like it's anything that should be blocking you, gcc-snapshot isn't exactly release-critical for Ubuntu
[18:01] <doko> then do it twice a week, weekly is not enough. because then other developers will invest time to fix issues. and these are not powerpc porters
[18:02] <mdeslaur> ok, I don't think we're going to decide on this issue today
[18:02] <doko> slangasek: so to which porters should issues be reported?
[18:03] <doko> we are trying to keep a port without knowing why we are doing it
[18:03] <slangasek> I agree that there's an issue here, that a community port imposes a burden on the rest of the developer community that is ill-defined and not measured.  It's also difficult to fix it so that the burden does lie with those who feel ownership of the port
[18:03] <slangasek> because we don't actually have subscription mechanisms for things like build failures on an arch
[18:04] <doko> feeling ownership is not enough
[18:04] <slangasek> of course it isn't
[18:04] <slangasek> but I'm pointing out that there's a practical challenge to getting those who do feel ownership to shoulder the burden
[18:05] <mdeslaur> well, we do need to see if anybody actually does feel ownership in the first place
[18:05] <mdeslaur> I suspect not
[18:05] <slangasek> infinity: do you?
[18:06] <slangasek> AIUI there's difference of opinion on how much it's costing us to keep it, but general agreement that we should move towards deprecating 32-bit archs
[18:07] <infinity> I do.  BenC does.  Not sure who else "feels ownership" and has the skills to do anything about it.
[18:07] <doko> when was BenC's last upload to the archive?
[18:07] <infinity> (There's a longer list of people who care about the port but probably can't fix hard issues, like flexiondotorg)
[18:08] <infinity> doko: Probably somewhere around the time Canonical refused to accept money from his company. :P
[18:08] <slangasek> infinity: is there a point of contact for the powerpc community?
[18:09] <slangasek> up to now I've used ubuntu-server as a proxy on the grounds that ubuntu-server was the principal flavor being produced
[18:09] <infinity> slangasek: Not really.  The two flavours that produce PPC images have users, and Ubuntu server does, but there's no ubuntu-ppc community where people hang out.
[18:10] <slangasek> infinity: ok, I posit that if you feel ownership of the port and don't want us to drop it, that's something that needs fixed - there needs to be a clear escalation path to powerpc porters
[18:10] <infinity> (Well, there's #ubuntu-powerpc, but that's pretty much Canonical and IBM and it's toolchain back-and-fort for both ppc* ports, not wider "community")
[18:10] <slangasek> (email escalation path, not IRC :)
[18:10] <doko> that is 64bit only
[18:10] <infinity> doko: That's not true, even if you see it that way.
[18:11] <doko> well, I'm asking there for help, and sometimes but not always get help
[18:11] <slangasek> infinity: do you want to take the action to stand up an ubuntu-powerpc mailing list and notify relevant folks, so that we can see how this would work out in practice?
[18:12] <infinity> slangasek: The latter before the former, I think, but yes.
[18:12] <doko> so for now, I only see one powerpc porter, and one powerpc user (although that might be one company)
[18:12] <infinity> slangasek: I'll round people up and see if there's a group to rally.
[18:12] <slangasek> mdeslaur: ^^ action and gavel us out? :-)
[18:13] <infinity> Very large gavel please.
[18:13] <doko> slangasek: timeline for that?
[18:13] <slangasek> I think we ought to make sure the list is in place in two weeks' time (i.e. before next TB meeting)
[18:13] <mdeslaur> [ACTION] Infinity to gather up powerpc community before next TB meeting
[18:13] <meetingology> ACTION: Infinity to gather up powerpc community before next TB meeting
[18:13] <slangasek> trivial to do it as a launchpad list
[18:14] <mdeslaur> [topic] Mailing list archive
[18:14] <mdeslaur> none
[18:14] <mdeslaur> [topic] Community bugs
[18:14] <mdeslaur> none
[18:14] <mdeslaur> [topic] Next chair
[18:14] <slangasek> I believe I'm in the hot seat
[18:14] <slangasek> stgraber as backup
[18:14] <infinity> Looks like you then steffie, yes.
[18:14] <slangasek> yes?
[18:14] <mdeslaur> slangasek with stgraber as backup
[18:14] <stgraber> sounds good
[18:15] <mdeslaur> anybody have any other topics before I end this thing?
[18:15] <mdeslaur> too late
[18:15] <mdeslaur> #endmeeting
[18:15] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  8 18:15:19 2016 UTC.
[18:15] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2016/ubuntu-meeting-2.2016-11-08-17.01.moin.txt
[18:15] <slangasek> hahaha
[18:15] <mdeslaur> go forth and watch disaster on tv
[18:15] <infinity> Every meeting should end with "too late".
[18:15] <mdeslaur> hehe
[18:15] <infinity> And yes, I was mentioning earlier that this is the first time my TV will be used to watch broadcast TV.
[18:16] <mdeslaur> I know, right? live tv, how retro.
[18:16] <infinity> I've never watched the collapse of a nation live before.
[18:19] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone