[00:50] <jacobw> !ping
[00:56] <awilkins> !ping is an interesting thing. A ringadingding.
[01:02] <Azelphur> Is there any way to move the notification windows to somewhere a bit more obvious?
[01:03] <Azelphur> on my machine they open in the far corner of my far right display so I usually don't notice em
[01:03] <penguin42> I think there used to be an option to move which corner they occurred in, but it got removed at some point
[01:03] <Azelphur> :<
[01:04] <penguin42> might still be buried in the gnome config stuff
[01:05] <DJones> Azelphur: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/configurable-notifyosd-notifications.html PPA so you take your chance, its not something I've tried
[01:05] <Azelphur> looks fun :)
[04:04] <mthatcher> Hi all
[09:02] <danfish> ahoy hoy saveloys!
[09:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> hullo danfish
[09:03] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Surprised at the result in Murrayfield yesterday
[09:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[09:03] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: a good result - hard worked for
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: What capacity does your 3TB drive show when you do a df -h?
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Yes.
[09:04] <danfish> AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer - how much snow in the stix?
[09:04] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I couldn't do a single partition
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: We have about 2 - 3" I reckon.
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Been talking to a customer in caterham, he reckons he has 8-9"
[09:05] <AlanBell> I have partitions of 1.7T and 1.1T
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: I have one partition of 2.0TB
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
[09:06] <AlanBell> erk
[09:06] <AlanBell> so is the rest unpartitioned space?
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> fdisk did say it was a 3TB drive.
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nope.
[09:06] <AlanBell> it looked like 2.7TB in gparted, but it wouldn't let me do one big partition because of partition table limits
[09:07] <buzz_> AlanBell, use gpt
[09:07] <buzz_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table
[09:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829816/
[09:08] <buzz_> The MBR partition table restricts partition sizes to a maximum of 2.19 terabytes (2.19 × 1012 bytes) or almost exactly 2 TiB (2,199,023,255,040 bytes or 4,294,967,295 (232−1) sectors × 512 (29) bytes per sector).[2]. GPT supports partition sizes up to 9.3 zettabytes or 8 ZiB−512 bytes (9,444,732,965,739,290,426,880 bytes or 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 (264−1) sectors × 512 (29) bytes per sector).
[09:08] <buzz_> 9.3 zettabytes should be enough for you
[09:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:09] <directhex> you need GPT for drives over 2T. full stop
[09:09] <directhex> and you need EFI to boot from GPT
[09:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok. Helpful. Thanks.
[09:09] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829818/
[09:10] <buzz_> directhex, you can boot from gpt without efi..Many Internet sources, particularly discussion groups, include assertions that it's impossible to boot a GPT disk on a BIOS computer. This is nonsense—or at least, it's true only of certain OSes.
[09:10] <buzz_> http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/booting.html
[09:11] <AlanBell> and MBR works fine if you are cool with partitioning it (which I was)
[09:16] <directhex> you can cross your fingers and pray in hybrid mbr situations, sure. i did the same thing back in the oldern days to boot from a 250G drive in a 128G-maximum-drive-size system
[09:19] <buzz_> directhex, afair that is only needed for windows and some other oses
[09:20] <buzz_> linux doesnt need a hyprid-mbr
[09:20] <buzz_> hybrid-mbr
[09:23]  * buzz_ upgrades joggler images to 3.2.4 kernel
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks - That's better. I now have a 2.8TB xfs partition.
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> xfs, does that still die if you lose power?
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> as in, unrecoverable
[09:34] <buzz_> it never did die..
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: it got in a twisted state though
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not for me no. Been suing it for years with no problems.
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\using
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
[09:34] <buzz_> i rememerb the structure was fine. only some data could be lost.
[09:34] <czajkowski> alanbell ping
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: oh that's fine then, only some dataloss ;)
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: it's not like it's a file system :P
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> So maybe ext3 then...
[09:35] <buzz_> anyway. xfs is probably the best fs currently for linux (imho). even though i use ext4
[09:35] <buzz_> MartijnVdS, depends how you look at it. it used to blank half written files or something i forget the details
[09:35]  * MartijnVdS uses ext4 and cifs (nfs to NAS = too much mucking about with uids)
[09:36] <buzz_> i sometimes wish i had used xfs rather than ext4 on my raid5, due to performance of ext4 when you get into the 100s of millions of files etc heh
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: you can set alignment when creating the ext4 fs
[09:36] <buzz_> MartijnVdS, i am aware thanks :)
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> also.. 100s of millions?
[09:36] <buzz_> yes
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> are you running a usenet server or something? :)
[09:37] <buzz_> backups with long histories
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> Ah, that also works :)
[09:37] <buzz_> the ext4 performance is to do with operations on lots of files, not the alignment etc.
[09:37] <buzz_> its just the fs design i guess.. anyway. in 2025 btrfs might work
[09:41] <Myrtti> gord: OMG borrowers from ghibli?!?!
[09:42] <buzz_> Inode count:              366288896 - i assume that correlates somewhat with the number of files (and dirs)
[09:45] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[09:46] <directhex> Myrtti, ghibli likes using western stories as source material. howl's moving castle is welsh
[09:46] <Myrtti> directhex: I know, I just didn't know they had done one about borrowers
[09:46] <Myrtti> directhex: which was released in Japan in July 2010, only now coming to theatres in US
[09:47] <directhex> MartijnVdS, xfs worked on the attitude that a zeroed file is less harmful than a corrupt file, as you'll detect & replace a zeroed file
[09:47] <directhex> main xfs annoyance IME is no shrink capability. only expand
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> directhex: zeroed = corrupted, imo :)
[09:48] <buzz_> id rather a zero file than a half intact file personally
[09:48] <buzz_> as directhex said. and you can detect and pull a replacement from your backup
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: corrupt < zeroes < *
[09:51] <mattt> morning morning
[10:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road 4th/Bristol 5th January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=78
[10:29] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:33] <danfish> going outside to make a snow person of indeterminable sex and race ;)
[10:33] <brobostigon> :
[10:33] <brobostigon> :)
[10:36] <AlanBell> http://streams.fosdem.org/fosdem/h1301.webm.m3u
[10:36] <AlanBell> live now on the czajkowski channel
[10:37] <popey> :D
[10:51]  * popey boggles at the proposed mageia structure
[10:52]  * AlanBell has never heard of mageia before
[10:52] <AlanBell> a mandriva fork
[10:53] <ali1234> why they doing that?
[10:54] <ali1234> oh it has gnome 2
[10:55] <buzz_> the free space issues that seemed to be back on btrfs on 3.1.x seem to be sorted on 3.2.x cool
[10:56] <buzz_> so maybe btrfs ready earlier than i thuogh. maybe just 5 more years or so
[10:56] <buzz_> :)
[10:56] <ali1234> i still wouldn't touch it with a pointy stick
[10:56] <buzz_> can be handy though.. like on me joggler images
[10:56] <directhex> popey, ?
[10:56] <buzz_> slow usb sticks + btrfs with compression = faster
[10:57] <buzz_> and more free space
[10:57] <popey> they have a governance council which has one representative from every single team
[10:57] <ali1234> well how many teams are there?
[10:58] <popey> it's not fully setup yet by the look of it
[10:58] <ali1234> it seems better than having a council which has 4 guys youve never heard of
[10:58] <ali1234> whih is what meego had
[10:59] <ali1234> until 2 of them quit
[11:02] <popey> stream broke AlanBell ?
[11:02] <AlanBell> popey: it wasn't me
[11:02] <AlanBell> but yeah, it stopped
[11:26] <gordonjcp> oh, there goes the weapon of mouse destruction
[11:26] <gordonjcp> got another one
[11:26] <gordonjcp> I thought mice hibernated in the winter?
[11:27]  * MartijnVdS looks at his mouse
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: mine isn't hibernating
[11:27] <gordonjcp> neither is this one any more
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Logitech? ;)
[11:27] <gordonjcp> no, brown and furry ;-)
[11:28] <gord> Myrtti, its really really good :)
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> ah, that kind of mouse :)
[11:28] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: and now about 3 inches wide and 1/4" thick
[11:29] <gordonjcp> I don't know what she does to them
[11:29] <gordonjcp> drives over them with a very small cat-sized tractor or something
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: you have no idea how cats work do you? ;)
[11:40] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm coming to that conclusion
[11:41] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm convinced she fires up the studio in the small hours of the morning
[11:41] <gordonjcp> occasionally I wake up hearing sounds in the house
[11:41] <gordonjcp> and I think "there is nothing in my house that makes a noise like that..."
[11:41] <gordonjcp> "... except the sampler...?"
[11:56] <OmNomDePlume> Has anybody's nuts frozen off yet?
[11:57] <OmNomDePlume> It's like -10 in some places.
[11:58]  * Myrtti giggles
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: -10 is not cold. I just ran 5km through it.
[12:01] <OmNomDePlume> It's -28 in my fridge. Try running a 5km through that.
[12:02] <OmNomDePlume> Yesterday was kind of eerie. Got home at two in the morning, looked outside. The whole neighbourhood was lit up as if it was evening.
[12:02] <OmNomDePlume> Light reflecting off the snow, you see.
[12:09] <czajkowski> boo
[12:11] <czajkowski> Daviey: is taking over for the sy admin infrastucure talk for canonical
[12:15] <popey> which room czajkowski ?
[12:19] <popey> http://streams.fosdem.org/fosdem/h1301.ogg.m3u  daviey!
[12:22] <AlanBell> fantastic
[12:23] <gord> if its -28 in your fridge. its not a fridge. its a freezer
[12:34]  * Myrtti goes out to -19C to blow soap bubbles
[12:34] <penguin42> will they freeze?
[12:35] <Myrtti> I hope so, nicer to take photos of
[12:35] <penguin42> nod; well good luck
[12:37] <Gary> snow snow snow!
[13:46] <penguin42> Mint is VERY green
[13:56] <kirrus> o/ BigRedS
[13:56] <kirrus> You managed to find a stable connection then?
[13:56] <BigRedS> er, sort of. I'm not really sure - not been paying much attention to online
[13:57] <BigRedS> I've just stuck in a bunch of error-handling for when scripts I've writen (and just been working on) lose net connections....
[13:57] <popey> I think I broke the ubuntu pastebin
[13:57] <popey> "An error has occurred in the Pastebin software. Please notify the administrators. "
[13:57] <gord> error handling is for wusses, i just restart some of my scripts every half hour
[13:58] <kirrus> gord: if a script that BigRedS wrote breaks in interesting ways, we get to call him, no matter the hour :P
[13:58] <kirrus> On the flipside, he gets to call me if varnish breaks in interesting ways :(
[13:59] <gord> hrm, thought i'd broken something, ctrl stopped working, compiz stealing the key binding perhaps?! oh no, better check the code!
[13:59] <gord> turned out to be a crumb under the ctrl key
[13:59] <brobostigon> lol
[13:59] <ali1234> i hate when that happens
[14:00] <gord> last time i have digestives with my morning tea
[14:00] <ali1234> press the key until it crunches
[14:00] <BigRedS> yeah, I generally assume all key-related issues are down to misplaced biscuits
[14:01] <brobostigon> i find bread crumbs, to be a good excuse.
[14:05] <czajkowski> aloha
[14:05]  * czajkowski waves at popey and ali1234
[14:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell:
[14:06]  * AlanBell claps the fine performance
[14:06] <czajkowski> heh
[14:06] <czajkowski> the perception of some people about canonnical and Ubuntu is interesting
[14:06] <czajkowski> also fedora folks ger a CC from redhat !
[14:07] <ali1234> what's the perception?
[14:08] <czajkowski> that locoteams are given money from canonical to operate
[14:09] <ali1234> oh. never even occured to me that that might be the case
[14:09] <AlanBell> yeah the embezzlement opportunity is totally missing :(
[14:09] <ali1234> what does the loco even do that costs money?
[14:10] <AlanBell> well there are plenty of things we *could* do
[14:10] <sagaci> ali1234: they get given CDs and merch for computery events, afaik
[14:10] <ali1234> i know that
[14:10] <ali1234> but that isn't money
[14:11] <sagaci> yeah, that's the perception some people have, not what happens
[14:11] <ali1234> but i;m just wondering why people have that perception
[14:11] <ali1234> i mean if the loco teams were going around handing out piles of cash to people
[14:11] <ali1234> then i could understand it
[14:11] <ali1234> but they aren't
[14:11] <ali1234> afaik
[14:12] <popey> i think they see the success of locos and think people must be doing it for money
[14:12] <czajkowski> some of the griups fly people to places
[14:12] <DJones> I guess people are still used to the idea that you don't get anything for free
[14:12] <popey> theres no way they would do it voluntarily
[14:12] <BigRedS> ali1234: I'd guess because canonical is very commercial and the loco teams seem more so than your traditional lug - no other distro really has the same support for the own-brand lugs
[14:12] <AlanBell> not sure I would say canonical were very commercial, but your point stands
[14:13] <ali1234> i'm still not even clear on what the locos actually do other than get together and talk about how great ubuntu is
[14:13] <brobostigon> also maybe some geenral myth and legand that builds up, without confirmed information.
[14:13] <czajkowski> obredhat is a lot commerical!
[14:13] <popey> i want a silver sticker for my laptop
[14:14] <ali1234> red hat still has users other than OEMs :)
[14:14] <BigRedS> I suppose 'professional' might have been a better term
[14:14] <brobostigon> ali1234: we within the loco, also do user support, and people come to us for help and support.
[14:14] <ali1234> it's very clear that canonical now targets OEMs who in turn will target people who don't even know what linux is
[14:14] <BigRedS> Canoical seems more able and more likely to give money to loco teams to get them to advertise their distro than any other distro. And there's not really a loco analog for most other distros.
[14:15] <ali1234> locos add no value for such people
[14:15] <ali1234> so why would canonical be interested in investing in them?
[14:15] <BigRedS> you're thinking it through rather more than I think the people who hold those perceptions have
[14:15] <ali1234> lol
[14:15] <AlanBell> ali1234: they could add value, but there is a disconnect there
[14:16] <AlanBell> Canonical keeps the OEM channel as far away from anything communityish as possible
[14:16] <czajkowski> which does make sense tbh
[14:16] <AlanBell> not really
[14:17] <sagaci> kinda does
[14:17] <AlanBell> nobody booting up an ubuntu laptop would have anything on it or in the box to indicate there is an active user group in their country
[14:17] <ali1234> and why would they?
[14:18] <sagaci> still would be nice to fit some kind of loco functionality into the localisation aspect of the installer, as an optional and/or encouraged module
[14:18] <brobostigon> how sometimes, people buy hw with ubuntu contained, and come to us for support.
[14:18] <brobostigon> however*
[14:18] <BigRedS> yeah, xchat defaults :)
[14:18] <ali1234> i rather doubt that any of the people who go to locos have paid for ubuntu based hardware
[14:18] <ali1234> *for support
[14:19] <ali1234> considering what you can actually buy with ubuntu
[14:19] <AlanBell> sure, they don't
[14:19] <AlanBell> they install windows on it
[14:19] <ali1234> do you think that ubuntuTV users are going to be happy with community based support when their TV doesn't work? or will they justtake it back to the shop?
[14:19] <AlanBell> back to the shop, which is fine
[14:20] <ali1234> people who install ubuntu on an old laptop re the kind of people who show up at locos
[14:20] <AlanBell> sure
[14:20] <ali1234> these people don't buy ubuntu
[14:20] <ali1234> which is why canonical doesn't support them
[14:21] <AlanBell> my point is Canonical should use them more
[14:21] <brobostigon> why would you buy ubuntu anyways?, makes no sense.
[14:21] <ali1234> canonical already uses them to get free promotion and beta testing, how much more do you want tobe used?
[14:21] <sagaci> well you don't buy ubuntu
[14:21] <sagaci> well you can
[14:22] <brobostigon> sagaci: yes, a pressed cd, from the canonical store.
[14:22] <sagaci> 32-bit FTW
[14:22] <ali1234> yes, only absolute nerds actually buy those CDs though
[14:23]  * brobostigon goes to make coffee
[14:23] <ali1234> this is the disconnect:
[14:23] <ali1234> people like to support canonical
[14:23] <ali1234> buy buying CDs and contributing to the community etc
[14:23] <sagaci> I've bought a pack of 5CDs each release since Karmic
[14:23] <ali1234> but when the community wants something from canonical, it's suddenly "sorry, we're a business"
[14:24] <ali1234> neither side is doing anything wrong here
[14:24] <ali1234> it's just a disconnect, is all
[14:24] <AlanBell> hmm, that isn't the disconnect I see
[14:24] <ali1234> in fact it's more than that
[14:25] <ali1234> it's more like when people turn up and ask for things, the community springs to cannical's defense with the "well, they're a business" line
[14:25] <AlanBell> canonical has this community support bit, which does fund some loco stuff, sends out CDs and a tablecloth (that Daviey has) this is a marketing function of Canonical
[14:26] <ali1234> yep
[14:26] <AlanBell> they also have the OEM team, commercial services, various bits doing actual work and getting no value from the community
[14:26] <gord> canonical is the corporate sponsor of ubuntu - ubuntu is something we all come together to produce
[14:26] <AlanBell> because community is the bit done by the marketing/community team
[14:26] <ali1234> AlanBell: yes i agree with that
[14:27] <ali1234> the community is only expected to contribute to building a bigger community
[14:27] <AlanBell> that is an oversimplification as all simplifications are
[14:27] <ali1234> as such all it does is hold meetings and parties
[14:27] <ali1234> and give away CDs
[14:27] <ali1234> and so on
[14:27] <AlanBell> yup
[14:27] <AlanBell> speaking of parties
[14:28] <AlanBell> one sec, on phone
[14:29] <sagaci> LoCo's need to do a hell of a lot more, on the whole
[14:32] <ali1234> yes
[14:32] <ali1234> and i don't believe it is up to canonical to encourage that
[14:32] <ali1234> and it's not really about locos either, we're all on the internet, location does not matter for most of the things the community could be doing
[14:37] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps
[14:41] <popey> hullo bigcalm
[14:43] <bigcalm> Howdy popey
[14:43] <bigcalm> popey: I think Hayley wants to run away with your brother's dogs
[14:43] <popey> hah, they are cute
[14:46] <bigcalm> Have you been playing in the snow?
[14:47] <czajkowski> evil_snow
[14:48] <bigcalm> We had freezing rain here that turned everything to ice. Bugger all snow really
[14:50] <gordonjcp> it was icy here
[14:50] <gordonjcp> last night I could barely drive off because the wheels were spinning in 2nd
[14:50] <gordonjcp> then when I lifted off the throttle the front wheels locked up from the engine braking
[14:51] <DJones> bigcalm: Same for us, I'm beginning to think that all the people commenting about snow, just live near somebody who's thrown a bottle of washing up liquid into a fountain
[14:52] <bigcalm> :D
[14:59] <OmNomDePlume> O'Neill is bringing Emule Heskey on.
[14:59] <OmNomDePlume> Oh dear.
[15:03] <christel> /11/4
[15:03] <christel> er
[15:03] <bigcalm> 2.75?
[15:09] <shauno> This is quite bizarre.  Ireland is currently one of the warmest places in europe.  I'm not sure these words have been seen in this order before.
[15:12] <czajkowski> shauno: indeed
[15:12] <czajkowski> I am flipping frozen in brussels and heading back to london in snow
[15:12] <shauno> 8 degrees, light drizzle, just like every other day of the decade :)
[15:14] <penguin42> bah, 8 degrees, that's positively tropical
[15:20] <OmNomDePlume> shauno: they only feel warm because they've been drinking.
[15:20] <shauno> pfft. I'm on a 12hr shift.  I must deny that
[15:20] <BigRedS> brussels is a good deal warmer today than it was yesterday
[15:22] <brobostigon> stargate, itv4, :
[15:22] <brobostigon> :)
[15:23] <penguin42> it's a bit warmer in manchester as well, promising to stay at +1/+2 tomorrow, Tuesday the forecasts are saying -8c overnight :-(
[15:27] <ali1234> lol my mate built a snowman with a realistic body but a normal snowman head and it looks freakish
[15:27] <AlanBell> pix plz
[15:28] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113908610041457856109/posts/CcHG3UCoaLv
[15:29] <penguin42> ali1234: That's excellent!
[15:33] <ali1234> probably had frostbite by the time he got around to the head :)
[15:33] <penguin42> ali1234: Reminds me of Morph
[15:33] <ali1234> yes
[15:33] <ali1234> yes it does
[15:50] <bigcalm> http://thedoghousediaries.com/3399 :D
[16:16] <ali1234> wait a minute duh
[16:16] <ali1234> if i xor each byte of a string
[16:16] <ali1234> then append that to the end
[16:16] <ali1234> then if i xor each byte of the result
[16:16] <ali1234> i get 0
[16:17] <ali1234> so i don't need extra logic to cut off the checksum and check it
[16:17] <ali1234> i just look for 0
[16:17] <ali1234> because it ends up as x^x
[16:18] <ali1234> that in turn means i can check as i receive instead of waiting for the end
[16:32] <djbenny> afternoon
[16:33] <ali1234> haha, thought my assembler code was bugged, turns out gamin is now not just reporting events, it also hangs python when you start a watcher
[16:56]  * AlanBell fixored the car
[16:58] <daubers> AlanBell: You can do mine next if you want :)
[16:59] <AlanBell> does it have windscreen wipers that are flapping all over the place after being blocked by snow?
[16:59] <daubers> No, it needs the battery to be given a full charge
[17:01] <AlanBell> ah, my skills beyond wiper re-zeroing and tightening are a bit limited
[17:01] <mgdm> daubers: as in 'take it inside and do it overnight'?
[17:12] <gordonjcp> daubers: get it started, go for a long fast drive with the minimum of electrical equipment on
[17:12] <gordonjcp> daubers: fwiw one of my Citroens will actually flatten its battery driving around town in the winter, with the lights, blowers, heated rear window etc on
[17:13] <gordonjcp> it's an automatic so it's in top at about 25mph, and 1300rpm - not really enough for the alternator to do much
[17:20] <daubers> gordonjcp: Yeah, it just struggles with the morning commute at the moment, don't think it's long enough to charge the battery back up
[17:21] <daubers> was going to charge it while I'm at work, as that's easier than trailing cables all the way out of the flat window
[17:30] <gordonjcp> how old is the battery?
[17:32] <daubers> It's the original one with the car (02). It might need replacing but I'd rather try charging it back up before spending £70 odd on a new one
[17:42] <gordonjcp> yeah
[17:42] <gordonjcp> it's ten years old
[18:32] <czajkowski> anyone seen Daviey
[18:35] <DJones> czajkowski: Not for a while
[18:38] <penguin42> hmm the guy doing the 3d projection 3d printer doesn't seem to be updating stuff
[18:42] <penguin42> hmm maybe he has - he's moved to a new site: 3dlprint.com
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> o/
[20:01] <SuperEngineer> listening to WC on Linux Outlaws - is he a defector?
[20:16] <DJones> Heh I like this http://distilleryimage1.instagram.com/753824a64eb511e19896123138142014_7.jpg
[20:17] <bigcalm> Hehe
[20:18] <bigcalm> Is g+ still not doing too well outside of geek circles?
[20:19] <DJones> I think its doing better than Diaspora
[20:21] <bigcalm> I only remember about that when other people mention it
[20:23] <zleap> bigcalm, yeah me too
[20:23] <zleap> had a discssion the other day about it on my local lug list, i maintain the name is hardly catchy
[20:34] <popey> bigcalm: i find G+ has more interesting content than facebook but thats probably just because I havent subscribed to the same people in facebook as i have in G+
[20:34] <zleap> yeah google+ also seems more intellegent,
[20:35] <AlanBell> nice typo
[20:35] <zleap> as in I can post something and get a more sensible response
[20:35] <zleap> AlanBell, typo ?
[20:35] <bigcalm> Most of the people I have on facebook are unlikely to switch to g+. With the poop they put on facebook, I'm happy for them to stay put
[20:35] <AlanBell> "intellegent"
[20:35] <AlanBell> nvm
[20:36] <zleap> ok
[20:36]  * zleap can't spell
[20:36] <AlanBell> G+ has the advantage of not having mum on it
[20:36] <zleap> bigcalm, you summed up my feeling there too
[20:42] <jacobw> today is superbowl day in the US
[20:42] <zleap> yep
[20:42] <jacobw> giants vs patriots at 2330 gmt
[20:43] <zleap> its on bb1,
[20:43] <zleap> 6 hours for a 1 hour game, on and madonna at 1/2 time
[20:44] <AlanBell> she must be quite grown up by now
[20:45] <jacobw> lol
[20:45] <zleap> yep
[20:45] <AlanBell> she is 53
[20:46] <zleap> my typing is terrible on this keyboard
[20:46] <jacobw> its not 6 hours, its only 5 hours and 5 minutes :p
[20:46] <zleap> i thought the bbc coverage started at 22:50
[20:46] <zleap> even so the game is still 4  - 15 min quaters
[20:47] <jacobw> 2255 to 0400
[20:47] <zleap> ok i can't add up either then
[20:47] <zleap> lol
[20:47] <gordonjcp> zleap: american "football"?
[20:47] <zleap> yep i know
[20:47] <bigcalm> gordonjcp: hand egg
[20:47] <gordonjcp> where some dudes waddle up and down a field in fat suits until one of them falls over
[20:47] <jacobw> i've watched gridiron before, it takes a long time
[20:47] <gordonjcp> and then they take a break for ten minutes
[20:47] <zleap> you get some big hits though
[20:48] <gordonjcp> it's like watching an outtake roll from the Tellytubbies on mogadon
[20:48] <zleap> yeah but thats cos you bring on a defensive team or offensive team
[20:48] <zleap> well usually the WR or QB is ligter it depends on position,  if you were in the line of scrimmage you would want lots of padding
[20:49] <gordonjcp> why?
[20:49]  * zleap has dummies book
[20:49] <zleap> cos you get hit by the other team
[20:49] <gordonjcp> uh
[20:49] <gordonjcp> yeah, I used to play shinty
[20:49] <gordonjcp> where you don't wear padding
[20:50] <AlanBell> I am sure they would enjoy a nice game of cricket a lot more, you get time off to go and have tea and stuff
[20:50] <zleap> i am involved in rugby,   underarmour perhaps but not massive pads
[20:50] <zleap> its a different game,   tactically its rather complex
[20:50] <bigcalm> Mmm, tea
[20:50] <zleap> esp when you look at the play calls
[20:50] <jacobw> cricket is the only sport that include meal breaks :|
[20:51] <zleap> what about port break ?
[20:51] <gordonjcp> zleap: have you seen shinty?
[20:51] <zleap> gordonjcp, nope
[20:51] <gordonjcp> zleap: okay, have you seen ice hockey?
[20:51] <gordonjcp> imagine that played on grass
[20:51] <zleap> We get that with the vets game paignton vs chobham,   they get (or used to get port) at 1/2 time
[20:51] <gordonjcp> and it's very fast and violent
[20:51] <zleap> ouch
[20:51] <AlanBell> and the only sport where you can play a game for 5 days, not get a result and that is one of a best out of 5 series
[20:51] <zleap> lol
[20:51] <alexcockell> LMAO...
[20:51] <zleap> like the world series over 7 games
[20:52] <zleap> baseball
[20:52] <alexcockell> Hi all- so some of youa re going to be watching their attempt at Rugby League with pads as well?
[20:52] <zleap> well may watch some of it
[20:52] <zleap> recording it,  got about 10 years worth of superbowls recorded
[20:53] <alexcockell> I remember that clip on 'Tube where  the commentators were "so shocked" at 15-20 passes... the guys were playing League...
[20:54]  * jacobw wonders whether quiddich is derived from shinty
[20:54] <zleap> I wonder if a playerr in rugby would miss a 31 yard kick from in front of the posts,  like the baltimore kicker did,
[20:54] <gordonjcp> jacobw: are you allowed to hook an opponent's legs out from under them and hit them over the head as they go down in Quidditch?
[20:55] <jacobw> gordonjcp: physical violence in the paradigm of wizards on brooms is silly :)
[20:56] <jacobw> s/physical/bodily
[20:59] <diplo> Evening all
[21:00] <bigcalm> That's odd
[21:00] <bigcalm> g+ Instant upload has been disabled on my phone
[21:00] <bigcalm> Hi diplo
[21:00] <alexcockell> Apparently according to EFNet folks, the pre-match footage has lots of T&A... almost like boxing..
[21:01] <zleap> jacobw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiddich#Ancient_games
[21:02] <popey> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0V107U8739
[21:02] <popey> interesting device
[21:03] <popey> USB powered, VGA & DVI connected screen
[21:03] <zleap> nice
[21:03] <zleap> grr if it had hdmi input you could use it with the raspberryPI
[21:03] <popey> you dont need hdmi for rasppi
[21:04] <bigcalm> popey: that is interesting indeed
[21:04] <AlanBell> you can do hdmi to dvi very easily
[21:04] <popey> 5 quid gets you a converter
[21:04] <zleap> oh it has hdmi
[21:04] <zleap> on the details tab it says no next to dvi
[21:04] <popey> doesnt matter
[21:04] <popey> you can convert DVI and HDMI
[21:04] <zleap> ok
[21:05] <zleap> cool
[21:25] <tombrough> zleap?
[21:25] <zleap> hi
[21:26] <zleap> hows you,  long time no chat :)
[21:36] <SuperEngineer> hmmm… 9pm & only just below freezing - is it summer already? ;)
[22:19] <zleap> do i need to run open arena server inorder to play in single player mode, if not i can remove from auto load on start up and save some system resources
[22:22] <directhex> zleap, you don't need openarena server to play single player afaik
[22:22] <zleap> ok thanks
[22:22] <directhex> zleap, is it disableable via a twiddle in /etc/default ?
[22:22] <zleap> `so i edit that file
[22:23] <zleap> what is twiddle
[22:23] <directhex> dunno, most super-optional daemons have a parameter in there to enable/disable
[22:23] <zleap> ok
[22:23] <directhex> don't have the gigglebytes on this train to do a test install
[22:23] <zleap> its a program that allowsme to config stuff theb
[22:23] <zleap> then
[22:27] <kirrus> directhex: gigglebytes? Is that like gigabytes, but where the traffic sings to you as it comes down the wire?
[22:28] <directhex> kirrus, nah, just traffic containing lolcats
[22:28] <zleap> i am trying to run start up applications via dash but it isn't working
[22:29] <AlanBell> one day I will once more have an operating system where alt-tab does something I might expect it to do
[22:30] <kirrus> AlanBell: when you program it yourself?
[22:30] <kirrus> directhex: that sounds boring ;)
[22:30] <directhex> AlanBell, unity?
[22:31] <zleap> my alt tabkeeps giving me huge previews of windows,  but not sure what is triggering it
[22:31] <AlanBell> well I can just switch to a sensible switcher, but I am trying to get used to the unity one
[22:32] <AlanBell> I have a terminal with a server in it, an editor editing the code the server runs and a browser looking at the results of the server
[22:32] <AlanBell> I can see all of them on the screen, I want to flip focus between them
[22:32] <AlanBell> I don't want to raise all the other terminals and browsers and editors I might have open
[22:33] <dwatkins> zleap: totem?
[22:33] <zleap> maybe
[22:33] <dwatkins> bug 216939, perhaps
[22:33] <kirrus> the oneirc switcher does seem a bit weird
[22:33] <zleap> so whatkey combo
[22:34] <zleap> kirrus, i willsee if I can figure out how to reproduce it and hence what is causing it
[22:34] <zleap> brb,  need to check see what time the nfl is set to record from
[22:34] <popey> AlanBell: i filed a bug about that
[22:35] <popey> bug 861250
[22:40] <alexcockell> Rugby League For Wimps due to start in 15 mins on BBC1
[22:42] <mattt> rugby league?  people watch that?
[22:44] <zleap> american football is a different sport
[22:44] <zleap> as i said more tactical
[22:45] <zleap> iformation with WR right to FB hooks here we come
[22:45] <mattt> oh, super bowl tonight isn't it
[22:45] <zleap> yeah
[22:46] <mattt> football is an OK sport, shame about the non-stop stopping tho
[22:46] <zleap> the idea is to gain 10 yards, hence they stop in order to change the play
[22:47] <zleap> or if they faul to gain 10 yards change the team when they lose possession
[22:48] <zleap> fail
[22:48] <mattt> zleap: are you american?
[22:48] <zleap> no
[22:48] <alexcockell> However, basic gameplay was kinda derived from League...
[22:48] <zleap> english
[22:48] <alexcockell> 7 minutes to BBC1 coverage...
[22:49] <alexcockell> Oh - and 1 forward pass is allowed, then it's backward passing...
[22:52] <zleap> alexcockell, in football or rugby league
[22:52] <alexcockell> American Football.
[22:53] <zleap> well inrugby you kick forward then pass back
[22:53] <zleap> but can kick forward in a game (or you can in union) not sure about league
[22:54] <mattt> you can chip kick in league i believe
[22:54] <alexcockell> I remember the Beeb were drawing comparisons with League the first year they aired it.
[22:54] <alexcockell> Which made the match a helluva lot easier to understand.
[22:57] <zleap> well they did have martin johnson doing the studio stuff at one time,
[22:58] <zleap> is there still a big league vs union war going on (kinda like emacs vs vi eh)
[22:58] <mattt> i don't know anyone that watches league
[22:59] <zleap> nor me
[22:59] <mattt> it's alright, i'd rather watch it to football tho
[22:59] <mattt> plus they have teams called things like the rabbitohs
[22:59] <zleap> sale sharks, are they league
[23:00] <mattt> nope
[23:00] <zleap> union
[23:00] <zleap> lol
[23:00] <mattt> english premiership
[23:00] <zleap> same as exeter then
[23:00] <zleap> which is my local premiership rugby team
[23:00] <mattt> what made me laugh
[23:00] <mattt> i saw a random uni football game while in texas
[23:01] <zleap> ah NCAA
[23:01] <mattt> it was a pretty non-descript game, and there were like 50-60k people there
[23:01] <mattt> and jets flew over at before kickoff
[23:01] <zleap> Its more popular in some cases than NFL as it shows upcoming players (remember teams can draft from college teams)
[23:02] <mattt> yeah, people in texas love their college team
[23:03] <zleap> its a shame we don't get that sort of support for UK uni sport teams eh
[23:04] <mattt> heh
[23:04] <mattt> there's not even that kind of support at pro rugby games :)
[23:04] <zleap> yeah
[23:04] <mattt> to be fair, i went to a few super 15 (was 14) when in wellington, nz
[23:04] <zleap> ah
[23:04] <mattt> and it was the same there, attendance was piss poor
[23:04] <mattt> actually probably worse :P
[23:05] <zleap> in the US and canada its really like a family day out,
[23:05] <zleap> esp with the baseball
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Back up to Ubuntu server using Time Machine with OS X Lion 10.7 - http://zrmt.com/2012/02/05/back-up-to-ubuntu-server-using-time-machine-with-os-x-lion-10-7/
[23:05] <mattt> well, in wellington it's cheap to go out to the games, and very cheap to eat and drink at the stadium
[23:05] <mattt> but it's too cold and i don't think people can be bothered sitting outside in the cold
[23:05] <zleap> yeah i got tickets to the blue jays for £2
[23:05] <mattt> surely that wasn't normal tho?
[23:06] <zleap> and later on for £20 for closer seats
[23:06] <zleap> this is for major league,  baseball
[23:06] <mattt> <-- from toronto :P
[23:06] <zleap> cool
[23:06] <zleap> i was in toronto in 2006
[23:06] <zleap> work canada
[23:06] <mattt> i left 2003, been here since
[23:06] <zleap> ah
[23:07] <mattt> only mananged to see a couple of blue jay games tho
[23:07] <mattt> there was some fiasco in the late 90s iirc
[23:07] <mattt> where players went on strike or some crap
[23:07] <zleap> i was on summer camp for about 2 months I thibk, then went over to vancouver
[23:07] <mattt> and after that people just couldn't be bothered, they stopped watching baseball
[23:07] <zleap> yeah heard about that
[23:07] <zleap> nfl players went on strike at one point too
[23:07] <mattt> which did you prefer, vancouver or toronto?
[23:08] <zleap> toronto
[23:08] <zleap> vancouver is kinda wet,  (was there in october - december)
[23:08] <mattt> ah, yeah
[23:08] <mattt> the weather is very similar to here
[23:08] <zleap> i did get to some lug meets in canada though
[23:08] <zleap> well 3 days of torential rain
[23:08] <zleap> still rugby is good over there :D
[23:09] <mattt> it is?
[23:09] <zleap> yeah,  teams in toronto and vancouver and other places
[23:10] <mattt> it's very niche
[23:10] <zleap> so its getting there,
[23:10] <zleap> yeah,  i wanna go to the ny 7's
[23:10] <zleap> thast sounds pretty good
[23:10] <mattt> would rather go to the HK 7s or something personally :D
[23:11] <zleap> NY is closer and may be cheaper to fly to,
[23:11] <zleap> but yeah, any 7's  tournament would begood
[23:11] <mattt> why not go to twickenham?
[23:12] <zleap> hmm
[23:12] <zleap> i want a holiday so going when it co-incides with something would be a good excuse
[23:12] <zleap> plus I can hang out with some of the nylug people perhaps
[23:13] <mattt> ah
[23:13] <mattt> i want to book a holiday to nyc
[23:13] <mattt> haven't been in about 10 years
[23:13] <zleap> kinda long distance nylug member
[23:14] <zleap> of course the washington dc lug can be shortned to dclug the same as the devon and cornwalll lug
[23:14] <mattt> do people actually attend lugs here?
[23:14] <mattt> never been to one myself
[23:14] <zleap> well i arrange the dclug meets in paignton
[23:15] <zleap> can't go due to rugby,  but got free weekend coming up that happens to also co-incide with lug meet
[23:15] <mattt> http://www.dcglug.org.uk/sites/www.dcglug.org.uk/files/images/DCGLUG.jpg
[23:15] <zleap> so wil go to that, i need help getting a dual boot usb stick working so I can boot several live cds from a usb stick
[23:15] <mattt> which one are you?  :P
[23:16] <zleap> not onthere,  probably the one taking the photo
[23:17] <mattt> maybe i'll check out the sclug some time
[23:17] <zleap> i am not even on the paignton first XV photo,   I am team kit manager, but I took the photo
[23:17] <zleap> lol
[23:19] <zleap> sclug
[23:20] <zleap> south coast
[23:20] <zleap> well lug meets were well attended in toronto and vancouver  but they had more formal talks then a social bit
[23:22] <zleap> nope silicon corridor,  south coast is on in Australia
[23:23] <zleap> why doesn't rhythm box appear in alt tab switcher ?
[23:24] <mattt> sclug seems a bit dead, judging from mlist
[23:24] <mattt> they do have a meetup this week tho
[23:24] <zleap> may be worth going
[23:25] <zleap> hey what sort of time
[23:25] <zleap> dclug one startsd at 14:30 maybe we can do a irc linkup
[23:28] <popey> zleap: is it minimised in the notification area?
[23:29] <zleap> ok
[23:29] <zleap> but i can't see the icon for it
[23:29] <zleap> i know its running
[23:29] <popey> in the sound menu
[23:29] <zleap> ah
[23:29] <zleap> thanks
[23:33] <zleap> ok accidently switched to party mode and could not find a way out of it
[23:33] <zleap> had to use top and kill it
[23:37] <popey> zleap: F11
[23:38] <zleap> ah
[23:38] <zleap> i will know next time
[23:38] <zleap> i am off to watch nfl nite all
[23:38] <zleap> thanks popey


[09:16] <javier__> rsalveti: hi, I was looking at the manta-aa3-backport branch in git://kernel.ubuntu.com/jj/ubuntu-trusty.git and noticed that there isn't a security/apparmor/net_names.h
[09:17] <javier__> rsalveti: it is included from security/apparmor/net.c and also in the Makefile, I didn't find that file neither in the aa3 branch
[09:38] <javier__> rsalveti: nvm, I see that it is an autogenerated file
[09:45] <javier__> rsalveti: thanks anyway and sorry for the noise!
[14:30] <Frogg> Hello, I have a motorola Droid 4, And I guess that runs an ARM cortex a9 processor. I was wondering if Ubuntu arm could be installed on it