[02:07] <the--dud> phew, writing up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto proved to be a slightly bigger task than I'd think... have to stretch it across two days >_<
[02:12] <rob^> heh
[02:13] <the--dud> let's just hope it proves useful after all the work ^_^
[02:13] <rob^> the--dud, that could be useful for the Ubuntu Server Guide
[02:13] <rob^> good one
[02:13] <rob^> :)
[02:14] <the--dud> let's hope I find the time to get it done tomorrow then
[02:14] <rob^> sure, we only started work ourselves on the server guide~24 hours ago
[02:17] <the--dud> really? wasn't aware
[02:17] <rob^> yeah, we split it from the Starter Guide
[02:17] <the--dud> who's developing the server release btw? don't suppose they'd need some help from a small hacker....
[02:18] <rob^> ask in #ubuntu-devel, someone there can help you out :)
[02:19] <the--dud> already in there, pretty dead now with UBZ commencing soon-ish
[02:20] <rob^> everyone will be flying and what not
[02:20] <the--dud> yeah, way way too far away for the little norwegian student known as myself
[02:21] <rob^> tell me about it..
[02:21] <the--dud> almost 1/3rd around the globe
[02:21] <rob^> I'm in au, too far to swim..
[02:21] <the--dud> that'd be an understatement :p
[02:22] <the--dud> at least you had the down under conf close by
[02:22] <rob^> yeah
[02:22] <the--dud> yet to be in Europe I think
[02:24] <Kinnison> ciao all
[02:27] <the--dud> hiya Kinnison
[04:58] <rob^> bhuvan, ping
[04:58] <bhuvan> yes
[04:58] <rob^> you need to sign up to the the ubuntu-doc-commits mailing list
[04:59] <bhuvan> oh, ok
[04:59] <bhuvan> i'll
[04:59] <rob^> I fixed the problem in your first patch several hours ago
[04:59] <bhuvan> ok :)
[04:59] <rob^> cool
[04:59] <rob^> thanks
[04:59] <bhuvan> np. how about my another patch for sidebar.inc.php ?
[05:02] <rob^> which directory is sidebar.php?
[05:02] <rob^> sidebar.inc.php
[05:03] <bhuvan> teamstuff/doc.ubuntu.com/sidebar.inc.php
[05:03] <bhuvan> imo, it has been added by mdke just couple of hrs back
[05:04] <rob^> no your one is different
[05:05] <bhuvan> ?
[05:06] <rob^> your patch adds three links yes?
[05:06] <bhuvan> correct
[05:06] <rob^> it hasn't been commited yet, hang on
[05:06] <bhuvan> ok
[05:33] <rob^> hi Madpilot
[05:33] <rob^> grr
[05:33] <rob^> hi mgalvin
[05:33] <rob^> bloody patch
[05:35] <mgalvin> hey rob^
[05:35] <rob^> long time no see
[05:35] <rob^> how have you been?
[05:35] <mgalvin> yea, hows it going
[05:35] <mgalvin> just been busy with life in general
[05:36] <mgalvin> i am finally getting some of my free time back
[05:36] <rob^> cool
[05:36] <mgalvin> hopefully i can start working on some docs again
[05:36] <rob^> it got renamed to the starter guide, but the faq guide is in there with breezy :)
[05:37] <rob^> good to hear
[05:37] <rob^> we decided to split the faq guide into a desktop starter guide and a server guide for dapper
[05:37] <mgalvin> neat, i was just reading that thread
[05:38] <bhuvan> rob^: thankx for the commit
[05:38] <mgalvin> i just sat down this evening to catch up of whats been going on
[05:38] <rob^> bhuvan, np
[05:38] <mgalvin> rob^, by the way, great job seeing the guide through to completion for breezy
[05:39] <rob^> thanks :)
[05:43] <rob^> ah fuck don't tell me I just deleted doc.u.c..
[05:43] <rob^> fcking gay subversion
[05:46] <rob^> hmm the logs don't say I did..
[05:53] <bhuvan> rob^: subversion is good ;)
[05:53] <bhuvan> 'patch -p0 < patch_file' would apply the patch, imo!
[05:54] <rob^> yeah
[05:54] <rob^> I'm just wondering whats going on with doc.u.c
[05:54] <bhuvan> ok ok
[06:03] <rob^> hmm maybe the merge of branch back into trunk broke it
[06:36] <Madpilot> hi all
[06:38] <rob^> hey Madpilot
[06:40] <Madpilot> what's wrong with doc.u.c? All that shows is the kde directory - no index page, nada
[06:42] <rob^> yeah I know
[06:42] <rob^> mdke will have to sought it on on linode
[06:44] <rob^> s/sought/sort
[08:04] <bhuvan> going on vacation. will be back on nov 02 2005
[09:14] <Madpilot> wow, just remembered (via a chat on #ubuntu) what a horrific mess all the dialup modem stuff is in the wiki...
[09:15] <Madpilot> nobody on the docteam actually uses dialup, I guess... ;)
[11:59] <mdke> oh great
[12:02] <rob^> ?
[12:02] <mdke> just reading the last email from sebastiano mestre
[12:03] <rob^> ?
[12:03] <rob^> on the list?
[12:03] <mdke> yeah
[12:03] <mdke> marketing thread
[12:04] <rob^> on the doc mailing list?
[12:04] <mdke> yeah
[12:04] <mdke> btw rob^ I caught you using the term "admin guide" again... i think we need to spec the guide out before making any changes: it's important we get the division between the docs just right
[12:04] <mdke> otherwise we might end up losing material or duplicating it
[12:04] <rob^> oh?
[12:04] <rob^> where did I do that?
[12:05] <mdke> DocteamProjects
[12:05] <mdke> i watch your every move o.o
[12:05] <mdke> have a hack at this:
[12:05] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide
[12:05] <mdke> let's see if we can get an outline
[12:08] <rob^> I set up a Desktop Guide spec page today too if you noticed..
[12:08] <mdke> ah awesome
[12:08] <rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopStarterGuideSpec
[12:08] <mdke> moved from FAQGuide?
[12:08] <rob^> I've also been hacking on the desktop guide for a bit
[12:09] <rob^> no
[12:09] <rob^> might put a redirect or something..
[12:09] <mdke> ok cool
[12:10] <rob^> so you want to do a table of contents for the server guide?
[12:10] <mdke> i think it would help get clear where we are gonna go
[12:10] <mdke> plenty of time though
[12:10] <rob^> (oh I removed a lot of server stuff from the desktop guide too today)
[12:11] <mdke> yeah i saw
[12:11] <mdke> we also need to sort out this ccbysa business
[12:11] <rob^> I've fixed it already
[12:11] <mdke> no, you uncommented my comments from yesterday :)
[12:11] <rob^> ?
[12:11] <rob^> it validates ok
[12:12] <mdke> what does?
[12:12] <rob^> at least in the desktop guide
[12:12] <mdke> exactly
[12:12] <rob^> ccbysa.xml
[12:12] <rob^> so whats the problem?
[12:12] <mdke> i commented it out as a quick workaround because kquickguide wasn't building, but in doing so I broke desktopguide
[12:12] <mdke> now, your revert means that kquickguide still isn't building
[12:12] <mdke> i'm not sure the reason...
[12:12] <mdke> we need to find a situation where everything works :D
[12:12] <rob^> must be a problem with the kquickguide, the desktop guide is fine with it
[12:13] <mdke> possibly a problem with inconsistent headers between the licence and some of the docs
[12:14] <rob^> odd
[12:14] <rob^> get the author to xinclude the ccbysa.xml as I've done in the faq guide
[12:15] <mdke> yes, although that is a bit of a workaround too
[12:15] <mdke> we need to have a good look at stuff
[12:15] <rob^> no, that is the exact way to do it
[12:15] <mdke> erm
[12:15] <mdke> entities should work too
[12:15] <rob^> you can do a whole document using xincludes if you want
[12:15] <rob^> they do
[12:16] <rob^> eg the cc entitiy didn't work when you commented out the header because it wasn't including global.ent
[12:16] <rob^> does now
[12:17] <mdke> well the entities in the kquickguide don't work
[12:17] <rob^> check this out: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/network-administrator/
[12:17] <mdke> if you know how to fix it, tel me!
[12:18] <rob^> I'll take a look later :)
[12:18] <rob^> this has some intresting stuff too: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/system-administrator/
[12:19] <mdke> nice
[12:19] <mdke> i'll bookmark em
[12:19] <mdke> gtg now, bbl
[12:19] <rob^> finally: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html
[12:19] <rob^> that last one is huge
[12:19] <rob^> ok bye
[12:27] <joachim-n> hi
[12:28] <rob^> hi joachim-n
[12:28] <joachim-n> mdke, I just saw you reverted my edit to the UserDocumentation wiki page
[12:51] <mdke> right, which was that?
[12:52] <mdke> ah yes
[12:52] <mdke> Metacity?
[12:52] <mdke> joachim-n, the reason was that it led to an empty page
[12:53] <mdke> we don't add guides to that page until they are well developed
[12:53] <joachim-n> ok
[12:53] <mdke> in the case of "Metacity" there was no content
[12:54] <joachim-n> but the user docs do suffer from strucutral problems
[12:54] <joachim-n> they don't explain the basics
[12:54] <joachim-n> eg, is there a page that explains the user preferences?
[12:55] <mdke> I don't know
[12:55] <rob^> mdke, I've made a few edits to ServerGuide on the wiki
[12:56] <mdke> wicked
[12:56] <rob^> plucked some keywords from the mcse course I did ages ago..
[12:57] <mdke> :)
[12:59] <rob^> (I just did a brain dump)
[01:04] <rob^> hang on
[01:06] <rob^> ok
[01:07] <mdke> so you never got those mails about the marketing team?
[01:07] <rob^> I got the one from sebadtiano mestre
[01:08] <mdke> ah
[01:08] <mdke> i've continued off list with him
[01:08] <mdke> we argue better in Italian :)
[01:08] <rob^> I really do doubt any of them have even seen docbook..
[01:08] <rob^> heh
[01:08] <rob^> lovely
[01:11] <mdke> rob^
[01:12] <mdke> is it cool if I rename that wiki page to DesktopGuide
[01:12] <rob^> yeah sure
[01:12] <mdke> just for the sake of consistency
[01:12] <mdke> i'll fix links
[01:12] <rob^> np
[01:13] <mdke> we should split the preface stuff out
[01:14] <mdke> how come that is inline in the doc?
[01:14] <rob^> from memory I had to change some stuff to make sense for the faq guide
[01:14] <mdke> hmm
[01:15] <mdke> i think we should definitely share that love
[01:15] <rob^> yeah
[01:15] <rob^> I think I didn't want to break things for other docs at the time..
[01:15] <rob^> hmm LOTR is on
[01:16] <mdke> ooh
[01:16] <mdke> which one?
[01:16] <mdke> my gf went to italy today so I need to watch some films
[01:16] <rob^> nr 2 I think
[01:17] <rob^> bit odd the havn't played number 1 on tv first
[01:17] <rob^> its kind of like picking up a book, choosing a page at random to start from then not reading the ending
[01:18] <mdke> you've seen it right?
[01:18] <rob^> yeah
[01:18] <mdke> ahhhh
[01:18] <mdke> i can't get enough of it
[01:18] <mdke> i love the easy to watch films
[01:19] <rob^> yeah I don't mind it
[01:19] <mdke> can we change the time of the meeting next week?
[01:19] <rob^> pretty long though, I'm usually pretty pissed at the end of three hours
[01:19] <mdke> lol
[01:20] <rob^> mmm beer
[01:20] <mdke> always having the meeting at 1400UTC is an issue for me
[01:20] <rob^> oh
[01:20] <rob^> well I'm happy to make it earlier
[01:20] <rob^> 1400 is like midnight for me
[01:20] <mdke> *cough* later
[01:20] <mdke> something like 2100?
[01:20] <mdke> 22?
[01:20] <rob^> any later then that and I'm catching some z's
[01:21] <mdke> when does the next day start?
[01:21] <rob^> umm.. thats 7/8am my time
[01:21] <rob^> on saturday
[01:21] <mdke> bit early
[01:21] <rob^> yeah
[01:21] <mdke> i think the CC does 23
[01:22] <rob^> that will work for me usually unless I have plans on the saturday..
[01:22] <rob^> yeah but in the middle of the week, I'm at work :(
[01:22] <mdke> yeah well friday nights or weekends are good for me
[01:22] <rob^> actually they haven't got back to me about the timing of the next cc meeting yet
[01:22] <mdke> anyway a reasonable rotation should make everyone happy
[01:22] <rob^> yeah
[01:23] <mdke> sorry about nuking the preview server yesterday btw
[01:23] <mdke> typo :)
[01:23] <rob^> they want me to become a member of the cc
[01:23] <rob^> heh
[01:23] <mdke> you mean an Ubuntu member
[01:24] <mdke> a member of the CC would put you in a group of 4
[01:24] <rob^> yeah I thought so, I commited a patch to the svn and thought I broke everything, then spent the next half an hour wondering what I done
[01:24] <mdke> no, it was my cron jobs nuking everything
[01:24] <rob^> I dunno, I just got an email about CC + some kind of membership the other day
[01:24] <mdke> i will do rsync from now on
[01:25] <rob^> to my work email no less
[01:26] <mdke> :)
[01:26] <mdke> segfault, ping?
[01:27] <rob^> any thoughts on that outline I just did for serverguide?
[01:27] <mdke> ah i haven't had a proper look yet
[01:27] <rob^> oh ok np
[01:27] <mdke> i need to get a better working knowledge of the Starter guide
[01:28] <rob^> I just went nuts on the outline, so you don't really need to know the starter guide to get the gist of it
[01:28] <mdke> k
[01:29] <mdke> what is the status of a kubuntu starter guide?
[01:29] <rob^> well I'm not sure, I offered to start work on it, but was told by the kubuntu guys to let them go first
[01:31] <mdke> ok
[01:31] <mdke> i think they still need to sort out what docs they are gonna write for dapper so we'll let them decide that
[01:31] <rob^> yeah, I'm not gonna step on their toes
[01:33] <mdke> whoosh
[01:33] <mdke> that outline looks good
[01:33] <mdke> is there a "root and sudo" section in the desktop guide too?
[01:33] <rob^> theres a system administarion section we can take info on
[01:34] <rob^> one of the questions is about sudo that we can expand on
[01:34] <mdke> yeah we need to have prominent information about "root"
[01:34] <mdke> it is something Ubuntu does badly IMO
[01:34] <rob^> yep, thats what I thought
[01:34] <mdke> spec looks great
[01:34] <rob^> cool
[01:35] <mdke> only comment I would have is that I would envisage trying to make it a little more accessible for a new user
[01:35] <mdke> probably via the titles
[01:35] <rob^> yeah but you cant make a server guide too newbie friendly
[01:35] <rob^> then most admins will just dismiss it
[01:35] <mdke> rob^, don't forget that we might just be talking about a guy who wants a desktop with apache
[01:36] <mdke> he'll setup his desktop with the desktop guide
[01:36] <mdke> then he'll want to be able to find "webserver" in the server guide
[01:36] <rob^> yeah but thats pretty rare
[01:36] <mdke> nah, that's real common
[01:36] <rob^> for most things like webmin and whatever its already set up
[01:36] <mdke> basically what it comes down to is this IMO
[01:36] <mdke> making it clear that the server guide is not just for people who install ubuntu server
[01:37] <mdke> it can also be for people who run a desktop but want to learn basic services like http or ftp or ssh
[01:38] <mdke> don't you think?
[01:38] <rob^> sure but you still need to add some terminology and substance
[01:39] <mdke> yeah
[01:39] <mdke> we need a way to have the stuff that a new user would look for to be accessible
[01:39] <mdke> i think it can all be done in the structure and titles
[01:40] <rob^> yeah well that was a brain dump comming from a full time system admin
[01:40] <mdke> ahh
[01:40] <mdke> is that what you do eh
[01:40] <rob^> umm err no..
[01:40] <mdke> no wonder that outline is so l33t
[01:41] <mdke> you've ruined the "spy" idea for me though
[01:41] <rob^> hehe
[01:42] <rob^> but yeah
[01:45] <rob^> no pdf hey?
[01:46] <mdke> well have we ever produced any pdfs for our guides?
[01:47] <rob^> no, but a pdf of the server guide would be pretty nice
[01:47] <mdke> yeah ok let's do it
[01:47] <rob^> give people something to print etc
[01:48] <mdke> sure
[01:48] <mdke> no reason why not
[01:48] <rob^> exp considering they don't have yelp or the like
[01:48] <rob^> just a command line + guide in hand
[01:49] <rob^> lovely!
[01:49] <mdke> :)
[01:49] <mdke> you sound like a gentoo user
[01:49] <rob^> heck no!
[01:50] <rob^> avoiding the gentoo install look (switching between virtual terminals to read the guide and type the command) is what its all about
[01:51] <mdke> hmm
[01:51] <rob^> my printer is busted
[01:51] <mdke> i like gentoo :)
[01:52] <rob^> and yet you let .debs soften you up?
[01:53] <mdke> yeah
[01:53] <rob^> weak!
[01:53] <mdke> gentoo is inherently buggy by its release process
[01:53] <mdke> and I was spending too much time on administering my system
[01:54] <rob^> the idea of compiling everything for hardly any if at all speed gain seems kind of pointless to me
[01:54] <mdke> it's not for speedgain
[01:54] <mdke> its the extra control you get over what to build and what not to build
[01:54] <rob^> I'd rather just apt-get, make a coffee and come back to a useable system again
[01:55] <mdke> indeed
[01:55] <mdke> i've converted my home server to Ubuntu too
[01:55] <rob^> if I wanted that control I'd just grab the debian source package and compile it then, hardly ever do you need it
[01:55] <mdke> i'm 100% ubuntu friendly
[01:56] <mdke> ahhh, if you're gonna compile, it's all about gentoo
[01:56] <mdke> portage is the best
[01:56] <rob^> I have a freebsd friend trying to convince me ports is even better
[01:57] <mdke> argh
[01:57] <mdke> eureka
[01:57] <rob^> but the question is, do you really want to?
[01:57] <mdke> it's a pain when people delete pages accidentally
[01:58] <rob^> mmm random acts of deleteage
[01:58] <rob^> I'm not sure if thats actually a word though :)
[02:00] <rob^> hehe that freak on lotr with the split personality is on tv
[02:04] <mdke> we also need to find a way to include the help.u.c headerlogo into all our built docs
[02:04] <mdke> that would be nice
[02:05] <mdke> and doc.u.c on the preview ones
[02:05] <rob^> the big brown thing?
[02:05] <mdke> yeah
[02:05] <rob^> make them look like part of the site?
[02:05] <mdke> exactly
[02:05] <mdke> don't you think?
[02:05] <rob^> I think we need to add proper anchors to the html too
[02:05] <rob^> yeah
[02:05] <mdke> see
[02:05] <mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/guidabreezy/index.html
[02:06] <mdke> i did that by hand though :/
[02:06] <rob^> oh yeah, that looks good
[02:07] <rob^> how did you get the revision history at the bottom?
[02:09] <rob^> hmm some things broke in the translation
[02:09] <rob^> eg. application os="gnome">Synaptic
[02:10] <mdke> yeah
[02:10] <mdke> known bug
[02:11] <mdke> i moved the revision history manually
[02:11] <rob^> we really need a proper help tab on the main ubuntu site too
[02:11] <mdke> yes
[02:11] <mdke> that will hopefully come if we get the wiki moved
[02:12] <rob^> the one on the italian site looks good and makes help.u.c flow nicely
[02:12] <mdke> :)
[02:13] <mdke> we added the Guide one yesterday
[02:14] <rob^> I think not the help.u.c header, the main site header
[02:14] <rob^> for all of it, just adding documentation team on the doc.u.c site
[02:14] <rob^> the help.u.c should be a main page
[02:15] <mdke> we'll see how it goes
[02:15] <rob^> that quite frankly would rock
[02:15] <mdke> yeah
[02:15] <mdke> something to aim for in time for dapper
[02:16] <mdke> i'm discussing it with henrik and he is keen
[02:16] <rob^> good
[02:16] <mdke> it will take some time though
[02:16] <mdke> first thing is to get the wiki there
[02:16] <rob^> yeah
[02:17] <rob^> well I'm going to go watch the rest of the lotr movie and hit the sack
[02:17] <rob^> cya mdke
[02:19] <mdke> bye mate
[05:22] <jsgotangco> hello
[05:37] <mdke> hi jsgotangco
[05:37] <mdke> how's it going?
[05:39] <jsgotangco> not bad i got to steal some time again now
[05:39] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:40] <mdke> :)
[05:40] <mdke> i'm playing with planet
[05:40] <mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/
[05:41] <mdke> feedback pls
[05:42] <jsgotangco> what about hackergotchi stuff?
[05:45] <mdke> i think that can be floated in the top right of each post
[05:46] <mdke> what do you think?
[05:46] <mdke> or should it be on the left?
[05:46] <mdke> i personally have no hackergotchi
[05:47] <jsgotangco> well your peers would probably like one
[05:47] <jsgotangco> although it would look strangely too much like planet gnome...
[05:48] <mdke> sure I have nothing against them
[05:48] <mdke> it's just a question of where to put them
[05:49] <jsgotangco> the left is most appropriate i guess
[05:50] <jsgotangco> where is ubuntupeople hosted? a private server?
[05:50] <mdke> not sure
[06:25] <jsgotangco> who revision 1999
[06:26] <mdke> heh
[06:26] <mdke> quick!
[07:40] <highvoltage> mdke: hackergotchi, that's the pics on launchpad, right?
[07:40] <mdke> with a bloody mousepad no less
[07:41] <mdke> highvoltage, i think it means any picture of your head
[07:41] <mdke> hard to cut out your head with a synaptics touchpad
[07:41] <highvoltage> ah
[07:41] <highvoltage> i just used a southpark pic of me. https://launchpad.net/people/jonathan
[07:42] <highvoltage> wow. you have karma of 400.
[07:42] <jsgotangco> yeah he's pretty active in lp
[07:43] <mdke> it's from pushing through italian translations
[07:44] <mdke> highvoltage, jsgotangco, do either of you know how to use gimp?
[07:44] <highvoltage> i know a bit of gimp, i'm not a master though.
[07:45] <mdke> i've made my head, but am finding it hard to get big drop shadows on it
[07:45] <mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take1.png
[07:45] <jsgotangco> not much really
[07:45] <jsgotangco> not bad.
[07:45] <jsgotangco> add a drop shadow
[07:45] <mdke> there is one, but it is not fat enough
[07:46] <jsgotangco> lol i thought it was a faded pixel...
[07:46] <mdke> yeah similar
[07:47] <jsgotangco> you changed the color of your website to brown...
[07:47] <mdke> yeah
[07:47] <mdke> got bored of green
[07:48] <jsgotangco> wow your folks went to ayers rock
[07:48] <mdke> ugh
[07:48] <mdke> i need to get rid of those photos :D
[07:49] <mdke> ah there is only that one
[07:49] <mdke> phew
[07:49] <jsgotangco> yeah that pic of you and your gf is obviously scanned
[07:49] <mdke> yeah
[07:49] <mdke> i don't have many
[07:50] <jsgotangco> cute nonetheless
[07:50] <highvoltage> mdke: strange, i wouldn't recognise that as you. your hair was darker when i was in london, right?
[07:51] <mdke> not really
[07:51] <mdke> i took that photo just now
[07:51] <mdke> i don't _think_ it's changed colour :)
[07:51] <mdke> might just be the light
[07:52] <mdke> heh
[07:52] <mdke> i'll try and figure out these damn shadows
[07:54] <mdke> highvoltage, did you mean "i wouldn't recognise that as you" in a good way, or a bad way...
[07:54] <highvoltage> mdke: you need to paste your head on a transparent background
[07:55] <mdke> oh
[07:55] <mdke> k
[07:55] <highvoltage> then Script-fu -> Shadow -> drop shadow
[07:55] <mdke> yeah i was there
[07:55] <highvoltage> cool! you have a go-opensource sticker on your pc!
[07:55] <mdke> heh
[07:55] <mdke> from you
[07:55] <highvoltage> mdke: with the white background? that would come out weird.
[07:55] <mdke> hmm
[07:55] <mdke> ok how do I get the background transparent?
[07:56] <mdke> I select the head, then do autocrop right?
[07:56] <highvoltage> i use a longer method, i'm sure there's a better way.
[07:56] <highvoltage> what i do is select the head, copy it,
[07:56] <highvoltage> then create a new image, choose transparent bg, then past the image on the transparent bg.
[07:56] <mdke> ok
[07:57] <jsgotangco> i just used my last sticker from RMS on my laptop
[07:57] <mdke> highvoltage, where do I get the transparent background?
[07:58] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: do you notice your head is well position here to look like you have horns http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/52389877/
[07:59] <mdke> oh yeah that would be awesome
[07:59] <highvoltage> mdke: in the new picture dialog, you can click on 'more options' (or something like that) and choose transparent bg
[07:59] <mdke> ok trying
[08:00] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe. yes.
[08:01] <mdke> ok now i need to figure out how to get a fatter shadow
[08:01] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i still don't know what you look like, you have a hackergotchi?
[08:04] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/13246813/in/set-367688/
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i'm the tired-looking asian :)
[08:04] <mdke> show him your daughter
[08:04] <mdke> (he has the cutest daughter)
[08:05] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[08:06] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: where was that taken?
[08:06] <highvoltage> ah, udu. sorry, to lazy to read :)
[08:07] <Belutz> jsgotangco, nice pic :)
[08:07] <jsgotangco> Belutz: hey you're still awake as well :)
[08:08] <Belutz> yup
[08:08] <Belutz> waiting for early breakfast before fasting
[08:08] <Belutz> i wonder where i could get that lovely ubuntu brown shirt....
[08:09] <mdke> gah
[08:09] <mdke> i still can't get the shadow fatter
[08:09] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/5166461/in/set-367801/ is my wife and daughter
[08:09] <mdke> :)
[08:10] <Belutz> your daughter is cute :)
[08:10] <jsgotangco> she's grown already...and her hair is longer now
[08:10] <Belutz> how old is she now?
[08:11] <jsgotangco> will be 4 on january
[08:11] <Belutz> please say hi to your wife and daughter from indonesia :-)
[08:11] <jsgotangco> she just started taking e.nopi classes
[08:12] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: cool, i didn't even realise you were married :)
[08:13] <jsgotangco> where are you exactly?
[08:13] <highvoltage> me or Belutz?
[08:13] <Belutz> jsgotangco, me? i'm currently in jakarta
[08:13] <jsgotangco> Belutz
[08:14] <jsgotangco> ahhh nice
[08:14] <Belutz> before that i was in bandung for 10 years
[08:14] <jsgotangco> i got the chance to visit jakarta and bali before
[08:15] <mdke> argh
[08:15] <mdke> so close :)
[08:15] <mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take2.png
[08:15] <Belutz> i've never been to bali
[08:15] <jsgotangco> well you do hvae a huge country to begin with
[08:15] <jsgotangco> he
[08:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:16] <Belutz> nice one mdke :)
[08:16] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
[08:16] <mdke> it's badly cropped at the sides though
[08:17] <Belutz> oh damn, i was installing the breezy preview :-(
[08:17] <Belutz> gotta get rid of that cd
[08:20] <Belutz> yep, i was suppose to install breezy release... :p
[08:25] <mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take3.png
[08:25] <mdke> that's enough for now
[08:25] <mdke> thanks highvoltage for those tips
[08:25] <jsgotangco> getting better
[08:26] <mdke> still not perfect
[08:26] <mdke> but I can't be bothered to improve it without a mouse
[08:26] <segfault> mdke: pong
[08:27] <mdke> segfault, sorry I forgot to unping ya
[08:27] <mdke> thanks though
[08:27] <segfault> heh, np
[08:27] <mdke> segfault, i was installing planet on ubuntu-it and wanted your advice
[08:27] <mdke> but I resolved
[08:28] <mdke> not sure if you did the BR one anyhow
[08:28] <segfault> i didn't, but could as who did
[08:28] <segfault> have you seen it?
[08:28] <segfault> err, s/as/ask/
[08:29] <mdke> yeah
[08:29] <mdke> looks good
[08:29] <mdke> but I sorted it out
[08:29] <mdke> my main problem was where to download the software
[08:29] <segfault> hehe
[08:29] <segfault> planetplanet.org
[08:30] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:30] <mdke> yeah but it's not obvious from the website
[08:30] <mdke> I had to baz get it
[08:30] <mdke> segfault, btw
[08:31] <mdke> are you working on learnlinux?
[08:31] <segfault> yeah, just playing around though
[08:31] <segfault> i'm talking with jordi to get it into Rosetta
[08:31] <mdke> can we take it out of our repository? is it hosted elsewhere?
[08:32] <segfault> yes i guess
[08:32] <segfault> do you know who uploaded it to the repo?
[08:32] <mdke> sean
[08:33] <segfault> i'll talk to them later to see how he generated the pdf available at learnlinux.tsf.org.za
[08:33] <segfault> err, him.
[08:33] <mdke> cool
[08:33] <mdke> i'll leave it in the repo for now
[08:33] <mdke> but it shouldn't really be there, especially cos no one has used it
[08:33] <segfault> heh
[08:33] <jsgotangco> segfault: talk to sean, he admins the docs at tsf.org.za
[08:34] <jsgotangco> segfault: lots of docs there as well, the open icdl, tuxlabs, etc.
[08:34] <jsgotangco> well everything tsf basically
[08:34] <segfault> great, i'll mail him
[08:34] <segfault> those docs looks good
[08:34] <segfault> we're translating them to pt_BR
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: i'd remove it, its probably outdated now
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: or better inform the list i guess
[08:35] <jsgotangco> tsf has its own svn
[08:36] <mdke> we'll leave it a couple of days then delete
[08:36] <mdke> I've put it on the agenda for next week's meeting anyhow
[08:36] <mdke> we need to clean house a bit
[08:49] <mdke> jsgotangco, still around?
[08:50] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:50] <jsgotangco> about to sleep though
[08:51] <segfault> jordi: thanks!
[08:51] <segfault> ops
[08:51] <mdke> jsgotangco, http://help.ubuntu.com/output
[08:52] <mdke> argh
[08:52] <mdke> sorry
[08:52] <mdke> jsgotangco, http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output
[08:53] <jsgotangco> hehe nice one already! just clean up the white pixels and make the shadow a bit thinner i guess
[08:54] <mdke> what about the page?
[08:54] <mdke> any suggestions?
[08:54] <mdke> lemme just see if I can link the photo
[08:54] <mdke> gah
[08:56] <jsgotangco> hmm try adding a border or somethign to separate between blog entries
[08:57] <mdke> good idea
[08:58] <mdke> done
[09:04] <jsgotangco> its getting better
[09:05] <jsgotangco> well i gotta sleep
[09:05] <jsgotangco> its 3am
[09:05] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:05] <mdke> night
[09:05] <mdke> crazy
[09:30] <lucy> ciao
[09:31] <mdke> hello
[09:34] <lucy> sono roumen qui????
[09:35] <lucy> hello
[09:35] <lucy> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:35] <lucy> romenia here????
[09:36] <mdke> no
[09:36] <mdke> try #ubuntu-ro
[09:37] <lucy> gratie
[09:37] <lucy> merci
[09:37] <mdke> :)
[09:42] <lucy> bey


[04:05] <torkiano> hello, I'm reporting bug 348275 ?
[04:05] <torkiano> is needed any more information?
[04:42] <nullack> ping asac : re bug #3127
[05:45] <Vantrax> anyone aware of an issue with the gnome-power-manager update?
[05:45] <Vantrax> just installed updates on two 8.04 machines and both had errors on updating gnome-power-manager
[05:59] <dholbach> good morning
[06:05] <thekorn> good morning dholbach
[06:05] <dholbach> hiya thekorn
[07:20] <YoBoY> good morning
[07:45] <dominiks> YoBoY: morning
[10:51] <BUGabundo> me again
[10:51] <BUGabundo> need help retrace a .crash again
[10:51] <BUGabundo> gwibber crash just made my jaunty reboot
[10:51] <BUGabundo> its a clear case of DoS
[10:51] <BUGabundo> and I could reproduce it a 2nd time
[10:52] <BUGabundo> seb128: wanna give an hand again?
[10:53] <seb128> asac: ^
[10:53] <seb128> asac: gwibber sounds like something for you ;-)
[10:54] <seb128> BUGabundo: reboot the box or crash X?
[10:54] <BUGabundo> reboot
[10:54] <BUGabundo> done unpack
[10:56] <BUGabundo> seb128: $ gdb python /usr/bin/gwibber CoreDump ?
[10:58] <seb128> just "gdb /usr/bin/python CoreDump" I guess
[11:01] <BUGabundo> #9  0x00007f8ed3d56d40 in ?? () from /var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0/webkit.so
[11:01] <BUGabundo> so that means I need webkit gdbsym
[11:01] <BUGabundo> libwebkit-1.0-1-dbgsym on its way
[11:01] <seb128> rather python-webkit-dbg in this case
[11:01] <asac> seb128: he already complained to me in -mozillateam ;)
[11:01] <BUGabundo> asac: yes I did
[11:02] <asac> BUGabundo: does it crash because its a OOM situation?
[11:02] <asac> BUGabundo: is that the only signature you get in backtrace?
[11:02] <asac> BUGabundo: thats #9
[11:02] <asac> what about #1-8
[11:02] <BUGabundo> asac: ahh??
[11:02] <asac> BUGabundo: type "bt" when you ar ein gdb
[11:02] <BUGabundo> doing so
[11:03] <BUGabundo> getting gdb webkit
[11:03] <BUGabundo> want me to past current bt ?
[11:03] <asac> yes
[11:04] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/137407/
[11:04] <BUGabundo> running now with -gdb
[11:05] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/137408/
[11:10] <BUGabundo> asac: anything from the pastebin?
[11:24] <BUGabundo> asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/348388
[11:25] <BUGabundo> any other logs I need to attach?
[12:24] <BUGabundo> I'm so glad we are on Beta freeze
[12:25] <BUGabundo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linphone/+bug/348414
[12:25] <BUGabundo> 3rd crash of the day
[12:28] <seb128> stop using weird softwares ;-)
[12:31] <ogra> BUGabundo, yeah, dont use anything seb128 doesnt maintain ;)
[12:31] <ogra> then it will run stable
[12:31] <BUGabundo> seb128: its in universe
[12:32] <BUGabundo> just trying to test ALL voip and SIP apps on archive
[12:32] <BUGabundo> lol
[12:33] <ogra> look at the bottom of your software, if there is a sticker "seb maintained" next to the best before date, then you are safe
[12:33] <ogra> ;)
[12:35] <BUGabundo> eheh
[12:35] <pedro_> lol
[12:36]  * BUGabundo is it _boo_ time already?
[12:38] <bddebian> Boo
[12:38] <bddebian> :)
[12:40] <BUGabundo> here it is!
[12:40] <BUGabundo> FOOOOOO
[14:24] <maxb> linphone has a new major version in sid, probably not worth spending any time testing Jaunty's
[14:28] <BUGabundo> thanks maxb
[14:29] <BUGabundo> guess a request for manual sync for koala then?
[14:31] <maxb> BUGabundo: The -1ubuntu1 changes are droppable, but the -1ubuntu2 changes (Remove arts) may not be.
[14:31] <BUGabundo> didn't we already drop arts?
[14:31] <BUGabundo> for pnome?
[14:32] <maxb> Yeah *we* did.
[14:32] <maxb> But there's nothing in the debian changelog to suggest that it's happened in sid yet
[14:34]  * maxb merges linphone/sid into his PPA
[14:34] <BUGabundo> seb128: what do I need to debug bug 347209?
[14:34] <BUGabundo> maxb: don't have any trouble
[14:34] <BUGabundo> I'm steaking with ekiga and
[14:35] <BUGabundo> gizmo
[14:38] <seb128> BUGabundo: dunno, is it crashing?
[14:39] <BUGabundo> well you said it needed debug from OOo
[14:40] <seb128> right, from the openoffice maintainer
[14:40] <seb128> I don't use openoffice and I don't know about it or how to debug it
[14:41] <seb128> but there is just no indication of a gvfs issue there
[14:41] <seb128> opening files over smb with gedit works fine
[14:41] <seb128> if openoffice has an issue I would blame its gvfs issue rather than gvfs without extra informations
[14:42] <BUGabundo> okay
[14:42] <BUGabundo> got it
[14:42] <BUGabundo> calc: ping
[14:47] <calc> BUGabundo: hi
[14:48] <BUGabundo> calc:  bug 347209?
[14:49] <calc> BUGabundo: its a gvfs bug but apparently seb128 doesn't want to debug gvfs so just reassigned to OOo
[14:50] <calc> seb128: what is the gvfs debug sequence again, i need to write it down to ask users going forward to do their gvfs debug
[14:50] <calc> seb128: as gvfs fuse is notoriously buggy i'm quite sure this is a gvfs bug
[14:50] <BUGabundo> calc: write it down to a wiki
[14:50] <calc> BUGabundo: yea
[14:51] <seb128> calc: there is no indication of why you think that's a gvfs issue there
[14:52] <calc> seb128: it fails saving to a gvfs fuse mount, when i switched to gvfs fuse for OOo i found several 3+ bugs in gvfs fuse that kept OOo from saving... so its not 100% that it is a gvfs fuse issue but it almost certainly is
[14:53] <calc> seb128: i can get users to do the testing, i just need to remember the pkill gvfs* ; (blah) line to tell them to get the debug info out with
[14:53] <seb128> that bug is not a saving one but an opening one
[14:53] <seb128> and cat on the .gvfs or gedit or whatever works just fine
[14:53] <seb128> we didn't get opening bugs over fuse until now
[14:53] <calc> seb128: doh yea i'm still half asleep
[14:53] <calc> BUGabundo: please copy the file to a local fs and see if the file opens
[14:54] <seb128> I would lean toward openoffice not understanding the uri or something
[14:54] <calc> BUGabundo: if it does then we need the gvfs debug data which i still don't remember how to do :)
[14:54] <calc> seb128: did nautilus switch to passing uri's to OOo?
[14:54] <calc> seb128: it wasn't doing that a few weeks ago afaik
[14:54] <seb128> dunno, look at the process list when it's called?
[14:55] <BUGabundo> calc locally it opens fine
[14:55] <calc> BUGabundo: ok, looking into what nautilus does in jaunty wrt uris
[14:55] <BUGabundo> calc: ah?
[14:56] <calc> BUGabundo: if it opens fine locally and nautilus isn't passing uri's it is probably a new unknown bug in gvfs, but that isn't known yet
[14:56] <seclm193> what channel is the announce
[14:56] <BUGabundo> eehehe
[14:57] <BUGabundo> seclm193: what anounce?
[14:57] <seclm193> bug announce
[14:57] <calc> BUGabundo: ok at least on my system it does not use uri's
[14:57] <BUGabundo> I'm sorry seclm193 but I don't get what you want help with
[14:57] <hggdh> seclm193, /j #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[14:57] <greg-g> seclm193: #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[14:57] <seclm193> thx
[14:57] <BUGabundo> now I do
[14:57] <calc> BUGabundo: if you can manage to do it before OOo dies try running ps x | grep soffice.bin
[14:57] <hggdh> :-)
[14:57] <BUGabundo> calc the smb is mounted with gvfs
[14:58] <BUGabundo> I have gnome-mount icon for it
[14:58] <calc> BUGabundo: yes i know
[14:58] <BUGabundo> running ps x
[14:58] <calc> BUGabundo: you have to run the ps x command before OOo dies after attempting to open the file
[14:59] <BUGabundo>  3480 pts/2    S+     0:00 grep soffice.bin
[14:59] <BUGabundo> either its too fast or that is all I get
[15:00] <calc> BUGabundo: ok i can tell you what to do to work around that easily
[15:00] <BUGabundo> I rather have a Fix for everyone
[15:00] <calc> edit /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice and add echo $@ at the beginning
[15:01] <calc> BUGabundo: we are still debugging the issue
[15:01] <BUGabundo> ah ok
[15:01] <calc> that should (i think) cause the path to be spit out into .xsession-errors
[15:01] <BUGabundo> done
[15:01] <calc> hmm no that won't work
[15:02] <BUGabundo>  4311 ?        Rl     0:00 /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin -writer smb://<IP_ADDRESS>/empresa/RELATORIOS/SLAVI/slavi.odt -splash-pipe=5
[15:02] <calc> it spits it out on the terminal but not to .xsession-errors
[15:02] <calc> hmm interesting
[15:02] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:02]  * calc wonders why it doesn't do that on his computer
[15:02] <BUGabundo> broken system?
[15:02] <BUGabundo> mine that is
[15:03] <calc> BUGabundo: are you using up to date jaunty?
[15:03] <BUGabundo> yep
[15:03] <calc> hmm
[15:03] <BUGabundo> up until a few hours ago
[15:03] <BUGabundo> before lunch
[15:03]  * calc tests a bit more locally
[15:03] <BUGabundo> but we are on freeze so not many updates coming in
[15:03] <seclm193[1]> was there another update released today?
[15:04] <BUGabundo> openoffice.org:  Installed: 1:3.0.1-7ubuntu1
[15:04] <BUGabundo> seclm193 its coming out tomorrow
[15:04] <BUGabundo> Beta
[15:04] <BUGabundo>  !releases
[15:04] <BUGabundo>  !shcedule
[15:04] <BUGabundo>  !schedule
[15:05] <BUGabundo> gvfs:  Installed: 1.2.0-0ubuntu1
[15:06] <calc> so the good news is i know how to fix the issue, but i'm not sure why nautilus is sending uri's in only some cases
[15:07] <calc> i see this: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin -writer /home/ccheney/.gvfs/personal on desktop-c2d/test.odt -splash-pipe=5
[15:07] <calc> for a smb share
[15:10] <BUGabundo> $ ls -lah .gvfs/
[15:10] <BUGabundo> total 12K
[15:10] <BUGabundo> drwx------   2 bugabundo bugabundo    6 2008-05-09 16:38 ./
[15:10] <BUGabundo> drwx------ 127 bugabundo bugabundo 8.0K 2009-03-25 15:01 ../
[15:10] <BUGabundo> this could explain it!
[15:10] <BUGabundo> I don't see the share on .gvfs
[15:11] <calc> what?
[15:11] <calc> so your system is hosed
[15:12] <calc> OOo still should be using %F but in this case it just wouldn't work at all
[15:12] <calc> i think it would probably either refuse to open at all or open a blank page in that case
[15:13] <BUGabundo> nothing that I did!
[15:13] <BUGabundo> I have gvfs installed
[15:13] <BUGabundo> and have used it in the past
[15:13] <BUGabundo> but ok, its now seb128 departement
[15:13] <calc> BUGabundo: yep
[15:14] <BUGabundo> ok
[15:14] <BUGabundo> that bug can now be invalied
[15:14] <calc> BUGabundo: %F just forces nautilus to use local paths and since there are none i'm not completely sure what would happen but it would probably try to not open at all with OOo in this case
[15:15] <calc> BUGabundo: still valid but just for a different reason :)
[15:15] <BUGabundo> let me remove the line from the file
[15:15] <BUGabundo> or I'll forget it
[15:15] <calc> ok
[15:15] <calc> it will be replaced next week anyway so not a big deal either way :)
[15:15] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:15] <BUGabundo> bbl
[15:16] <BUGabundo> need to connect laptop to a phone central
[15:16] <calc> i almost fixed that issue a few weeks ago myself but it didn't seem to affect anything so i just left it alone
[15:16] <seb128> what is the issue?
[15:16] <calc> but now you brought up cases where it happens irl
[15:16] <calc> seb128: for some reason even though BUGabundo has gvfs installed it had no $HOME/.gvfs dir
[15:16] <calc> seb128: which was causing nautilus to fallback to sending uris
[15:17] <calc> seb128: he's not sure why he has no .gvfs dir
[15:17] <christopher> anyone here ran world of warcraft on ubuntu 9 yet/
[15:17] <calc> seb128: my part of the problem is i did not change OOo to use %F from %U when i disabled uri support, nautilus generally sends GIO paths instead so works... except in cases like this when it has to send a uri
[15:18] <seb128> calc: you don't have .gvfs is gvfs-fuse is not installed or if you don't have permissions to use fuse
[15:19] <seb128> that used to be a group membership required, not sure nowadays
[15:20] <calc> seb128: ah ok
[15:21] <calc> i added that to bug report so he can see it later, since he logged off irc already
[15:22] <calc> iirc i didn't change to %F's before because it seemed to demote OOo for order of preference opening files
[15:22] <calc> i'll have to see how that goes when i try it again
[16:03] <BUGabundo> seb128: here is a funny one for you
[16:03] <BUGabundo> we can no longer drag gnome Pannels
[16:03] <BUGabundo> is it a Feature of 2.26?
[16:07] <seb128> BUGabundo: yes, use alt+dnd
[16:07] <BUGabundo> ahhh
[16:07] <seb128> that's to avoid accidental moves which keep confusing users
[16:07] <BUGabundo> is it documented?
[16:08] <seb128> in the changelog
[16:08] <seb128> dunno about the GNOME user documentation
[16:08] <seb128> you can also use the properties dialog
[16:08] <seb128> and change the orientation there
[16:08] <seb128> that should be the obvious user way
[16:08] <seb128> dnd is just a power user way
[16:09] <Melcom> hi
[16:09] <Melcom> whois imachine
[16:10] <BUGabundo> seb128: so no more draggin (unless alt), just use properties... okay
[16:10] <BUGabundo> a user just asked that on +1
[16:10] <BUGabundo> and I hit the wall too while reproducing
[16:10] <BUGabundo> ok... need to change my Class script to let my students know the change
[16:11] <seb128> we got many users doing accidental dnd
[16:11] <seb128> and not knowing what they did and how to go back
[16:11] <seb128> I think the change makes sense
[16:11] <BUGabundo> yeah
[16:11] <BUGabundo> too easy
[16:11] <seb128> BUGabundo: do you still have .gvfs empty?
[16:11] <BUGabundo> but didn't see anything in the change logs!
[16:12] <BUGabundo> yes
[16:12] <BUGabundo> how can I debug that?
[16:12] <seb128> BUGabundo: /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-fuse-daemon .gvfs
[16:12] <seb128> run that
[16:12] <BUGabundo> bash: /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-fuse-daemon: No such file or directory
[16:13] <seb128> BUGabundo: sudo apt-get install gvfs
[16:13] <BUGabundo> its installed
[16:13] <seb128> BUGabundo: sudo apt-get install gvfs-fuse
[16:13] <BUGabundo>   Installed: 1.2.0-0ubuntu1
[16:13] <seb128> sorry pressed enter by mistake before
[16:13] <BUGabundo>   Installed: (none)
[16:13] <BUGabundo> installuing
[16:14] <BUGabundo> gvfs-fuse:  Installed: 1.2.0-0ubuntu1
[16:14] <BUGabundo> done
[16:14] <BUGabundo> now what?
[16:14] <BUGabundo> and more important, why did it get removed or not installed
[16:14] <seb128> it's installed by default
[16:15] <seb128> why you removed it no idea that's a question for you ;-)
[16:15] <BUGabundo> maybe some partial update stupidty
[16:16] <BUGabundo> let me mount something
[16:16] <BUGabundo> still nothing there
[16:16] <BUGabundo> do I need to start it?
[16:19] <BUGabundo> seb128: I can mount volumes (even using right click) and get the gnome mount
[16:19] <BUGabundo> but no mount on gvfs
[16:19] <seb128> BUGabundo: /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-fuse-daemon .gvfs
[16:21] <BUGabundo> echos nothing
[16:22] <seb128> BUGabundo: try mounting something now
[16:22] <seb128> and look there
[16:22] <seb128> or browsing some gvfs url
[16:22] <seb128> ie nautilus ssh://localhost
[16:22] <seb128> or something similar
[16:23] <BUGabundo> its showing up now
[16:23] <seb128> good
[16:55] <pedro_> Ubuntu QA meeting at #ubuntu-meeting in ~5 minutes
[17:56] <hggdh> all: eeebotu will be rebooted due to security updates; we should be back in 5 minutes
[17:59] <hggdh> all, we are back from eeebotu rebooting. Sorry for the delay, but the server had been 200+ days on, and a fsck was forced
[18:39] <torkiano> hello all, anyone can help me triaging bug 338977 ?
[18:39] <torkiano> bug #338977
[18:40] <torkiano> i don't know if it is related to kdemultimedia packages or to pulseaudio sound system
[19:00] <BUGabundo> since asac is way
[19:00] <BUGabundo> can anyone tell me what do I need to log
[19:00] <BUGabundo> to debug a SiS based laptop?
[19:11] <seb128> BUGabundo: debug what on the laptop exactly?
[19:12] <BUGabundo> SiS board and network devices
[19:12] <BUGabundo> collected lshal, lsusb, lspci
[19:12] <BUGabundo> and boot logs to attach to a bug report
[19:12] <BUGabundo> to see if was can do something to work with or around SiS (BAD ) hw
[19:14] <dtchen> torkiano: triaged, thanks
[19:14] <BUGabundo> seb128: plus it only boot with no apci
[19:15] <BUGabundo> dtchen: ping hi
[19:15] <dtchen> BUGabundo: sorry, i'm busy. try again in 30 minutes.
[19:15] <BUGabundo> any tips on how to get Mic support on skype and Flash?
[19:15] <BUGabundo> won't be here... see you tomorrow
[19:15] <BUGabundo> [[]]
[19:15] <dtchen> i'm only online now because i'm home on sick leave.
[19:16] <torkiano> BUGabundo: maybe you can try ubuntu-bug linux
[19:16] <BUGabundo> dtchen: hope you get better
[19:16] <dtchen> check if your mic works at all via Applications> Sound & Video> Sound Recorder
[19:16] <BUGabundo> torkiano: doing so
[19:16] <BUGabundo> forgot to test sound recorder and audacity
[19:16] <BUGabundo> will do later
[19:17] <seb128> BUGabundo: no idea about this one
[19:17] <torkiano> dtchen: I'm the reporter of the bug; yes, is a fresh install of kubuntu
[19:18] <torkiano> dtchen: dpkg -l | grep ii | grep pulseaudio returns nothing
[19:19] <dtchen> torkiano: ok, please reset the status to New, then. it's a wishlist bug; i won't be looking at it for jaunty. in any case, it's not reasonably addressable, since too many HDA codecs have varying elements that need to be twiddled
[19:19] <dtchen> torkiano: e.g., having Kmix default to controlling 'Master' will result in your precise symptom for all the other users who need 'PCM' to be controlled
[19:20] <dtchen> torkiano: same goes for 'Front', 'Surround', ...
[19:21] <torkiano> dtchen: ok, I understand. Thank you for your support
[19:22] <BUGabundo> seb128 & calc and asac: in case you want to look at it: bug 348626
[21:32] <asac> hmm gone
[21:32] <asac> noacpi is often bios upgrade
[21:48] <mrooney> Are any other jaunty-ers having "brasero libbrasero-media0" kept back for the past week or two? Is that normal?
[22:11] <o0Chris0o> mrooney: yes I have it, I'm sure alot of them do, I think its not ready yet, or still working on it
[22:11] <mrooney> hm okay, good to know, thanks!


[06:58] <liujing> anick
[06:58] <liujing> #anick Kaisya
[07:00] <Kaisya> haha
[07:00]  * Kaisya haha
[07:51] <lukedcypher> Hey guys!! really need ur help! using a Lenovo Z50... having probs with the bluetooth.. it's showing up on the screen but never connects when I click on "turn bluetooth on" .
[07:52] <lukedcypher> tried searching on the forums but couldn't find a solution
[08:15] <lukedcypher> plz help :)
[09:05] <ouroumov> lukedcypher, you should google stuff using the output of "lshw -C network" or "inxi -N", see the driver for your wifi card
[09:05] <ouroumov> "ubuntu <card model> <driver>" is usually a good start
[09:29] <lukedcypher> cool! found the adapter name.. now i guess i should download the linux version of the dirver? sorry if my questionss are too stupid... im a newbie
[09:37] <zmaj> hi. I got one question
[10:16] <headcat79> When I dock and undock my laptop to docking station the screen freezes up anyone having similar issues 14.04
[10:16] <headcat79> 14.04 everything worked without issue
[10:17] <headcat79> could dock and undock my laptop to docking station and display would never freeze up
[10:31] <Alex21> Hello
[10:32] <Alex21> IS anyone online?
[10:38] <alkisg> Alex21: 97 persons in the channel
[10:38] <alkisg> !ask
[11:01] <erfan> I have problem with ubuntu-mate graphics. it usually shows menus and items with another color and someties shows only a white square instead of things. could you help e please?
[11:05] <erfan> I have problem with ubuntu-mate graphics. it usually shows menus and items with another color and someties shows only a white square instead of things. could you help me please?
[11:22] <erfan> can anyone help e please?
[11:22] <erfan> :(
[11:37] <enderb> Hi
[11:37] <ouroumov> hi enderb
[11:39] <enderb> How are you?
[11:39] <enderb> I have a concern
[11:39] <enderb> My system is not properly recovered after being suspended
[11:40] <ouroumov> It happens, and that's usually hardware-dependent
[11:41] <ouroumov> This netbook for example suspends and resumes flawlessly
[11:42] <enderb> Im have a lenovo z40-70
[11:44] <ouroumov> enderb, you should google the laptop model and "ubuntu", see if you can find any bug reports on launchpad or on the forums
[11:47] <enderb> Thanks you
[12:25] <erfan> I have problem with ubuntu-mate graphics. it usually shows menus and items with another color and someties shows only a white square instead of things. could you help e please?
[12:28] <ouroumov> erfan, can you provide a screenshot or something?
[12:30] <ouroumov> Also you can post about this on our forums (more exposure) : https://ubuntu-mate.community/
[13:21] <Tintomatic> Here in the U.S. the National Weather Service shutdown the website that the Weather Report panel applet was using. Does anyone know if it is being opr has been updated?
[13:22] <splashing> 你好
[13:34] <ubuntu-mate> hi everyone
[13:37] <ubuntu-mate> i wonder why nobody ever says anything in this chatroom lol
[13:42] <marq> sshh! :D
[13:47] <TaZeR2> guys im having a weird problem i cant shutdown or reboot my system
[13:47] <TaZeR2> getting errors like failed to start reboot.target trancation is destructive
[13:47] <TaZeR2> shut down from the menu brings me to the logon screen and shutdown from there does nothing
[13:47] <TaZeR2> and all command line options give me simular errors
[13:48] <ubuntu-mate> have you tried to halt the system from terminal?
[13:50] <TaZeR2> yes i get those destructive tranaction errors
[13:50] <TaZeR2> some weird stuff i cant figure it out, install is fairly fresh and up to date
[13:51] <ubuntu-mate> have you exited from the gui to the terminal? i think its ctrl alt f4
[13:51] <ubuntu-mate> try halt shutdown or reboot
[13:52] <TaZeR2> hmm pressing that gave me a blackscreen with nothing on it
[13:52] <TaZeR2> i can go back into desktop gui though
[13:52] <TaZeR2> with f7
[13:52] <TaZeR2> acting really weird...
[13:53] <ubuntu-mate> yeah
[13:53] <TaZeR2> i think just did a kernel upgrade yesterday
[13:53] <TaZeR2> and i didnt reboot yet
[13:53] <TaZeR2> and i think i did apt-get autoremove
[13:53] <TaZeR2> could that be a problem?
[13:53] <ubuntu-mate> i am sorry but im not sure what to do, i ran out of options
[13:54] <TaZeR2> i guess ill pull the power switch
[13:54] <TaZeR2> and see what happens after it reboots
[13:54] <ubuntu-mate> ok
[13:54] <TaZeR2> was hoping someone would know
[13:54] <ubuntu-mate> tell me what do you see after it rebooted
[13:55] <ubuntu-mate> maybe i can help
[13:55] <TaZeR2> sure, sec
[13:56] <ubuntu-mate> what version of linux are you running exactly?
[13:56] <TaZeR2> whatever the latest is for 16.04 lts
[13:56] <ubuntu-mate> i am running the same
[13:56] <TaZeR2> seems to have booted normally
[13:57] <ubuntu-mate> what are your computer s' specs?
[13:57] <TaZeR2> its a hp mini 210 netbook, single core atom n450
[13:58] <TaZeR2> kernel 4.4.0-31
[13:58] <ubuntu-mate> i am running it on an hp elitebook 2530p with 4 gigs of ram and a core 2 vpro from the live cd and i have no issues
[13:59] <TaZeR2> apt-get says i have linux kernel being held back, so i think i need to do some updates
[13:59] <TaZeR2> let me reboot before i start
[13:59] <TaZeR2> see if thats working
[13:59] <TaZeR2> ok it seems to be working normally now
[13:59] <ubuntu-mate> how much ram do you have?
[13:59] <TaZeR2> just a random error i guess
[13:59] <TaZeR2> 2gb
[14:00] <ubuntu-mate> ok, hope i helped, bye
[14:00] <TaZeR2> yeap, thanks
[14:20] <ouroumov> Tintomatic, yeah it's been reported on the forums. If you're using the MATE 1.14 PPA there's a good chance you'll have a fix coming your way.
[14:22] <ouroumov> Tintomatic, see https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/weather-applets-inop/8435/
[15:30] <ubuntu-mate> Good morning
[15:46] <slimbook> hey there! I´ve got a question. Pretty basic, but what the hell. How do I create shortcuts on my desctop?
[15:54] <ubuntu-mate> ebuntu-mat
[15:56] <slimbook> ?
[17:11] <gilyu> hola
[18:01] <akira> olá
[19:41] <logical> Hi, how can I make when I rick click then go create new document to have writer and calc
[19:49] <alkisg> logical: go to any application you like (e.g. writer), then save an empty file to your ~/Templates folder
[19:49] <alkisg> And it will show up in the menu
[19:49] <logical> ok i will try
[19:51] <logical> It shows up, thank you a lot  :D
[19:51] <alkisg> You're welcome
[19:51] <logical> just one more question, is it possible to install KDEs pdf reader ?
[19:53] <alkisg> Of course, but it will also install a lot of kde dependencies, which will make it a bit slower to start up and use a little more ram, nothing significant though
[19:53] <logical> ok, thx for info
[20:29] <swift110> hey all
[20:35] <oswriter> hey swift
[20:35] <swift110> how are you oswriter
[20:36] <oswriter> beta testing 16.10.. think i fount my first bug. lol
[20:36] <oswriter> *found
[21:35] <swift110> oh ok cool
[21:36] <swift110> oswriter: in Lubuntu I have a problem with my laptop restarting itslef
[21:37] <oswriter> hmm. haven't used lubuntu in awhile.
[22:53] <ozkar> hhi,
[22:54] <ozkar> hi
[23:31] <logical> Hi, I plan to use UM in my business and I have about 10 pcs. The task these pcs do is very simple just text and table editing (libre writer and calc). Now I want to make it operates like this: they all save the main data to one folder, which is automatical sync with the "server pc" (it wont be a real server more like a host). What software or technique would you suggest me to make this. I was thinking to use sparkleshare (keep in mind that i am newer
[23:31] <logical> to linux)
[23:32] <logical> one thing to keep in mind i will have like 5 more windows pc connected and they need to have the same
[23:33] <nomic> there are ubuntu forums for in-depth questions
[23:33] <nomic> networking on linux is nfs
[23:34] <reptarius> hi
[23:34] <nomic> integraiton with with windows (network) = samba
[23:35] <logical> Ok nomic, I will go with forum, thank you :D
[23:36] <logical> hi reptarius
[23:37] <reptarius> what are you doing at the moment?
[23:40] <nomic> ubuntu mate forums / ubuntu forums .. networks are easily set up on linux, with NFS (minutes)
[23:41] <nomic> samba = smb
[23:41] <nomic> In computer networking, Server Message Block (SMB), one version of which was also known as Common Internet File System (CIFS, /ˈsɪfs/), operates as an application-layer network protocol mainly used for providing shared access to files, printers, and serial ports and miscellaneous communications between nodes on a ...
[23:41] <nomic> what windows uses to get through to linux
[23:42] <nomic> http://www.control-escape.com/linux/lx-samba.html   Networking Windows & Linux   logical
[23:42] <nomic> http://www.itpro.co.uk/87709/setting-up-a-linux-server-on-a-windows-network
[23:42] <nomic> http://www.computernetworkingnotes.com/network-administrations/samba-server.html  How to configure samba server in Linux
[23:43] <nomic> use nfs
[23:43] <nomic> which gets the network setup firstly
[23:43] <nomic> nfs server software to install = "sudo apt-get install nfs-server nfs-common portmap"
[23:44] <nomic> clients nfs-common portmap (install)
[23:44] <nomic> on server /etc/exports (file)
[23:44] <nomic> used to define directories that are shared (1 line for each directory)
[23:45] <nomic> /home/homedir <IP_ADDRESS>(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)  <- exports homedir to that client ip
[23:45] <nomic> from client
[23:45] <nomic> sudo mount <IP_ADDRESS>:/home/homedir /home/homedir/mountpointdir -o rsize=32768,wsize=32768,intr,noatime    <- after -o = optimisations
[23:46] <nomic> that is a command issued from client mounts dir from server
[23:46] <logical> Wow, thank you for your time I really appreciate it,  but how can I keep one folder shared on all pcs and synced, I don't want that the folder is located on server and all can manipulate it, I want that all have the same folder copied to their hdd and when something changes it syncs with all pcs on the network
[23:46] <nomic> mebbe use crontab
[23:46] <nomic> if you want to make sure they are copied at end of day
[23:46] <nomic> do you want a copy at end of day
[23:46] <nomic> cos otherwise its more difficult
[23:46] <nomic> cron = "job scheduler"
[23:47] <nomic> "synced"
[23:47] <logical> what about this, offered by the ubuntu mate butique https://www.sparkleshare.org/
[23:47] <nomic> for syncing it .. you really need 1 particular location
[23:47] <nomic> no idea
[23:47] <nomic> why not use something with cloud storate
[23:47] <nomic> then server isn't issue
[23:48] <logical> yea i could use something like dropbox or google but in time it will fill up the space and requiers internet,
[23:48] <nomic> why can't you just set up a server (on linux)
[23:48] <logical> I rly appreciate your time, thank you for all this advices, I am going to read the links you sent me and prepare to try it out tomorrow
[23:48] <logical> Because I dont know :P
[23:49] <nomic> having synchronously updated files on every client is messy
[23:49] <logical> Yes but it will also work as a backup
[23:49] <nomic> if they are in a singular server, location, clients access them -- locking / security issues are taken care of
[23:49] <nomic> understand what locking is?
[23:49] <nomic> how would you know if two clients access/update the same file
[23:49] <logical> no
[23:49] <nomic> why you need a server
[23:49] <nomic> "locking"
[23:50] <nomic> set up nfs network, simply - way I told you -- then look @ getting windows integrated
[23:50] <nomic> nfs network server
[23:50] <logical> ok, I will follow your advice
[23:50] <nomic> nfs = "network filing system"
[23:52] <logical> thank you again


[13:48] <rick_h> morning
[13:48] <jrwren> Good morning
[13:57] <_stink_> yo
[14:34] <Scary_Guy> hi
[14:54] <cmaloney> morning
[14:55] <mrgoodcat> morning
[17:04] <cmaloney> BTW: MUG tonight
[17:05] <cmaloney> 6:30pm
[17:05] <cmaloney> Wolf talking about the internals of git
[17:05] <mrgoodcat> oh man i want to see that but i have my gma's bday dinner
[17:05] <cmaloney> Eh, she'll hopefully have another
[17:06] <greg-g> daaaaammnn
[17:06] <cmaloney> ;)
[17:06] <cmaloney> What? Its a self-correctng problem
[17:06] <mrgoodcat> are you going to record?
[17:06] <cmaloney> Yeah, we'll be recording
[17:06] <mrgoodcat> cool
[17:06] <cmaloney> it's all good. I'm just messing
[17:07] <mrgoodcat> google always notifies me when mug uploads videos
[17:07] <cmaloney> We should also be live-streaming in case it gets boring
[17:07] <mrgoodcat> yea they wont mind if i bring a laptop to dinner
[17:08] <cmaloney> Eh... old people don't notice those sorts of things
[17:09] <cmaloney> just tell them you're working on taking healthcare from kids. They'll thank you for it.
[17:09] <jrwren> cmaloney: is right. is it a multiple of 5 or 10? then she might care. old people stop celebrating birthdays when they turn 30.
[17:09] <cmaloney> Exactly
[17:09] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i have the rare democrat grandma
[17:09] <cmaloney> I'm not due for another birthday in at least 4 years
[17:09] <jrwren> i'm pretty sure cmaloney doesn't even know his age. just knows it is somewehre between 40 and 45... err... and now I realize I've no idea how old cmaloney is. :p
[17:09] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Tell her you're working on healthcare.gov then. :)
[17:09] <mrgoodcat> jrwren: 97 i think?
[17:10] <jrwren> 97! wow!
[17:10] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm 97
[17:10] <cmaloney> in dog years perhaps
[17:10] <mrgoodcat> lol
[17:10] <cmaloney> or I'm a vampire
[17:10] <cmaloney> in which case I'look good for a vampire
[17:10] <mrgoodcat> lol
[17:10] <cmaloney> none of that gaunt thing going
[17:10] <mrgoodcat> 97 doesn't sound right. but i have no way of checking
[17:10] <mrgoodcat> i know 90 felt like it was a while ago
[17:10] <jrwren> paleness: checks out
[17:11] <mrgoodcat> lol
[17:11] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm part ginger so that means part vampire
[22:06] <jrwren> <3 linux tc... just a few commands to slow a connection down.
[22:58] <cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/c/MugOrgPage/live


[00:07] <timClicks> hi all, can anyone send a link to the guide on how to link the sourceforge tracker (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/sf) to the launchpad project? (https://launchpad.net/sahana)
[00:20] <thumper> timClicks: I think you link bugs, not projects
[00:20] <wgrant> You can also link projects.
[00:20] <wgrant> On +edit, you can select the bug tracker.
[00:20] <timClicks> thumper: have added this question https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/79059
[00:21] <wgrant> Ah, that's different.
[00:21] <timClicks> I'm a big fan of LP and am trying to lessen the transition costs for the team
[00:22] <timClicks> wgrant: thanks, I'll send that through
[02:10] <SamB> mwhudson: ah, right.
[02:10] <SamB> mwhudson: I guess you would call that "working"?
[02:33] <lamalex> What happened to the lp bug emails? they used to have the project name in the subject
[02:33] <lamalex> the new ones don't and it's a huuge regression
[02:34] <wgrant> lamalex: They never did for me.
[02:34] <wgrant> And I hope they never do.
[02:35] <wgrant> I don't want subjects cluttered with useless information; my filtering rules already tell me the project
[02:36] <mwhudson> from which we swiftly deduce that all launchpad bugs developers have a drinking problem
[02:36] <mwhudson> (i.e. they can't please anyone any of the time)
[02:36] <wgrant> Plus bugs don't have a project.
[02:36] <wgrant> They have lots.
[02:36] <wgrant> And lots of packages.
[02:38] <lamalex> hm yes i was confused about that
[02:40] <lamalex> how do you filter your big mail?
[02:40] <lamalex> s/big/bug. got my net is terrible tonihght.
[02:41] <wgrant> lamalex: Just fairly basic sieve rules.
[03:08] <spm> lamalex: using procmail; and on 1. "* ^X-Launchpad-Bug:" (simple match that this is a bug report, don't care what for as #2 fixes that) 2. "* ^X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale:.*<why>"
[03:08] <spm> so in my case the bugs I tend to actually care about match on: ^X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale:.*@canonical-losas
[03:09] <spm> everything else, for me, tends to be noise, so gets thrown into a lower priority folder to deal with later.
[03:10] <wgrant> I filter by both target and importance. I get important ones somewhat like spm, except with ^X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Subscriber$.
[03:10] <timblack1> I'm trying to import a Subversion repository into Launchpad.  The repository requires that I enter the username "anonymous" to checkout a copy.  Launchpad marked my attempted import invalid for this reason:  "Rejected: repository demands authentication"  So I tried entering this URL into the import system<EMAIL_ADDRESS> This works as a svn checkout url on my local machine, but Launchpad tells me "A user
[03:11] <wgrant> timblack1: Your message got cut off after "A user"
[03:11] <timblack1> ...name may not be specified in the URI."  Is there any way for me to import this repository?
[03:16] <fta> spm, i have some filters starting with ^(X-Launchpad-Bug|X-launchpad-(question|branch)).. too bad the l vs L :P
[03:17] <spm> fta: heh. yeah, I need a LOT of filters to keeep LP email under control. stuff I need to work on/for - LP User Answers for example; vs personal project answers etc. Gets messy...
[03:19] <fta> spm, same here, i have ~80 procmail rules ubuntu related
[03:19] <spm> yah. fun fun fun...
[03:20] <mwhudson> timblack1: ask a question on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code with all the details pls
[03:20] <fta> and i tend to abuse of regexps
[03:20] <timblack1> Ok, thank you mwhudson!
[03:24] <fta> i wish i had a single page to monitor all my ppas/builds, i'm tired of reloading so many pages. Something with *1* line per project, all the build status in column
[03:24] <fta> less texts, more icons and links
[03:25] <SamB> wouldn't one line per package be better ?
[03:25] <wgrant> fta: The script that generates http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ could be fairly easily altered to do that.
[03:28] <fta> i mean, something between https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+ppa-packages and https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
[03:28] <fta> but not 4 lines per project
[03:29] <fta> just package name, version, publish date, and some rows of icons
[03:30] <fta> btw, in /+ppa-packages, the Status is wrong, it's always Failures = None
[04:49]  * kfogel is away: sleep
[09:04] <iammyr> Hi everyone
[09:10] <iammyr> i'd like to know if the custom GET method "findSimilarBugs" of the Rest API can be applied only to bugs stored in Launchpad or is it sufficient to provide info such as a list of tags (which may be taken from bugs stored anywhere) to retrieve similar Launchpad-stored bugs.
[09:11] <iammyr> That is..I have an external dataset and I'd like to link my bugs to Launchpad's ones, then I need to search in there for similar bugs.
[09:18] <wgrant> iammyr: I don't think you can do that now, but a feature that will be implemented soon requires that functionality.
[09:19] <wgrant> So it should appear soonish.
[09:20] <iammyr> do you know about other bug datasets available online which I could search for bug similar to mine?
[09:28] <thekorn> hi, are there plans to update staging.lp.net? it's about 700 revisions behind edge.lp.net
[09:31] <maxb> thekorn: Actually I think it isn't, it's just an artefact of the way bzr revision numbers from different branches are not comparable
[09:32] <sianis> hello
[09:33] <sianis> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-ubuntu - why do lp not update this branch?
[09:35] <thekorn> maxb: ok, maybe 700 is a bit pessimistic ;) but staging is missing the ajax bits for task editing and adding comments
[09:36] <thekorn> which is a good indicator to say "staging is using an old version" :)
[09:37] <thekorn> ehm, maybe not, ajax for tasks is there
[09:43] <maxb> Steady on, ajax commenting only landed on stable less than 24 hours ago!
[09:44] <maxb> IIUC the process goes something like this: automated buildbots will merge stable into db-devel, and then promote db-devel to db-stable, which then ends up on stable at the next redeploy
[09:51] <thekorn> ok, thanks maxb. staging beeing a few hours or even days behind is not a problem for me. I think I just got confused by the different revisions. So, nevermind
[10:34] <iammyr> is there anyone who knows an online available and query-able bug dataset?
[10:35] <iammyr> which allows to perform searches over bugs by mean, for example, of their tags?
[10:35] <iammyr> I was told Launchpad can't yet allow this search
[12:23] <geser> is it a bug that I get emails for comments on duplicate bugs with only the bug number in subject but no description? or was it caused by something else?
[12:24] <wgrant> geser: I noticed that. I bet it's the AJAX.
[12:24] <wgrant> And I think I might have seen a bug about that last week.
[12:24]  * wgrant hunts.
[12:25] <andv> bigjools, are you really sure not anyone wish to be emailed automatically for such things?
[12:25] <andv> bigjools, I mean it won't be an high traffic spam of accepted mails
[12:26] <geser> wgrant: just strange that it only happened after the bug got duped, the comments before had the description in the subject
[12:27] <intellectronica> i just noticed that too
[12:27] <wgrant> Bug #381559
[12:27] <bigjools> freenode FTW
[12:27] <andv> bigjools, did you read?
[12:28] <geser> wgrant: just strange that it only happened after the bug got duped, the comments before had the description in the subject
[12:28] <wgrant> geser: I shall check the code.
[12:28] <wgrant> geser: Remember that edge got updated a few hours ago.
[12:28] <intellectronica> wgrant: i'm not sure that's related to the subjectless comment emails, but it could be
[12:29] <bigjools> andv: I did, but perhaps I don't understand what point you're making?
[12:30] <andv> bigjools, why when a sync get processed only the Changed by: field is mailed?
[12:30] <andv> bigjools, that's the point
[12:30] <wgrant> Autosyncs suppress emails entirely, don't they?
[12:30] <andv> yes
[12:31] <andv> manual syncs process Changes by: field only instead
[12:31] <bigjools> and you think it's appropriate to email Maintainer: as well, for manual syncs?
[12:31] <andv> yes
[12:31] <andv> also for automated import ones
[12:32] <andv> wgrant, what do you think?
[12:32]  * bigjools knows what wgrat will say
[12:32] <wgrant> andv: It would be insane.
[12:32] <bigjools> totally insane
[12:32] <geser> wgrant: how many hours is "a few"? less than 3?
[12:32] <andv> bigjools, why?
[12:32] <wgrant> Insane and suicidal.
[12:32] <wgrant> geser: 0800UTC, IIRC.
[12:32] <wgrant> Or was it BST...
[12:33] <andv> wgrant, why do you think it's insane?
[12:33] <bigjools> andv: do you think that all Debian maintainers would like more LP email?
[12:33] <wgrant> Debian maintainers would be correctly furious.
[12:34] <geser> andv: some DD don't want even mails about Ubuntu changes to their packages and you want to mail them about every sync of their packages?
[12:34] <bigjools> andv: this is why I said it should be strictly "opt-in"
[12:34] <andv> bigjools, wgrant, geser: should be done as an option then like julien said
[12:34] <andv> bigjools, yeah, right
[12:35] <wgrant> intellectronica:
[12:35] <wgrant> +            parameters: {
[12:35] <wgrant> +                subject: '',
[12:35] <wgrant> +                content: comment_input.get('value')
[12:35] <wgrant> +            }
[12:35] <andv> bigjools, I hope it will be done sooner or later
[12:35] <bigjools> andv: are you happy with the dupe now?
[12:35] <wgrant> intellectronica: The subject is explicitly empty, presumably to avoid that bug.
[12:35] <wgrant> So it is really that bug.
[12:35] <geser> andv: opt-in is ok, but opt-out is a no-go
[12:35] <bigjools> andv: I hope it will be done by the end of the year
[12:35] <andv> bigjools, yep, looks fine now
[12:35] <andv> bigjools, sounds great ty
[12:35] <andv> geser, yep
[12:35] <bigjools> andv: great, thanks for your patience and understanding
[12:36] <andv> bigjools, thanks to you :) feel free to close the bug
[12:36] <bigjools> well it's duped, so no need :)
[12:36] <intellectronica> wgrant: yeah, but that's not the problem (or at least, not where it should be fixed)
[12:36] <andv> true, fine then
[12:36] <intellectronica> we should identify that the subject is empty and prepare a 'Re: blah' subject
[12:36] <andv> bigjools, good work and sorry for bothering
[12:36] <wgrant> intellectronica: I suppose.
[12:37] <bigjools> andv: no problem at all!  Thanks for the bug report, it reminded me of the problem :)
[12:37] <andv> ;)
[12:38] <andv> at least the report has been usefull for something
[12:38] <maxb> What's the rationale for autosyncs not emails adjective-changes@ ?
[12:39] <maxb> s/emails/emailing?
[12:39] <wgrant> It'd be very noisy, though I'd like them to be sent.
[12:39] <wgrant> This is why we have structural subscriptions.
[12:40] <geser> at least after DIF it would be nice to have them on -changes
[12:41] <wgrant> geser: Autosyncs don't happen after DIF.
[12:41] <geser> in the past (till Jan 2006) they were announced to ubuntu-changes-auto, don't know why it stopped
[12:41] <geser> true
[12:41] <wgrant> geser: Ubuntu moved to Soyuz in February 2006.
[12:51] <Laibsch> Can you please suggest some example scripts on how to manipulate launchpad bugs (leave comments, etc.) via the command line rather than through the web interface?  I used to have some python scripts based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/Dev/python-launchpad-bugs/Examples but they don't work anymore.
[12:51] <wgrant> Laibsch: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
[12:52] <ondrej> hi
[12:52] <ondrej> i would like to delete a project at launchpad
[12:52] <ondrej> how can i do that?
[12:53] <Laibsch> wgrant: that is a lot of nice docu
[12:53] <Laibsch> but it doesn't tell me (yes, I'm stupid ;-)) how to add a comment to a bug
[12:53] <Laibsch> I want something simple
[12:54] <Laibsch> Are there no examples for simple stuff based on launchpadlib?
[12:54] <Laibsch> I'm not expecting to be spoon-fed, but I don't want to read the complete launchpadlib docu, either
[12:55] <wgrant> Laibsch: It shows you how to change the status and a couple of other things. Look at https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc for more.
[12:56] <Laibsch> that's even longer
[12:56] <Laibsch> and still no example
[12:56] <Laibsch> I'm not complaining, but I think you understand that is not what I'm looking for
[12:56] <Laibsch> it's really too complicated for me
[12:56] <Laibsch> sorry
[12:57] <wgrant> An example can't be given for every method and attribute. You want to get hold of a bug object, and call the appropriate method on it.
[12:57] <Laibsch> I'm not expecting that
[12:57] <wgrant> newMessage is the appropriate method, it appears.
[12:57] <Laibsch> well, my python foo is about strong enough to take a ready-made and complete (!), working script and adapt it slightly
[12:57] <Laibsch> so, I absolutely need a working example
[12:58] <Laibsch> complete documentation on how to stitch everything together is nice and very important, but it won't help me :-(
[13:00] <geser> Laibsch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/247176/ is the main part off my very simply script to ACK sync requests
[13:00] <Laibsch> cool, thanks
[13:08] <Laibsch> geser: can you paste the stuff for authentication (obfuscating any sensitive data, of course)?
[13:10] <geser> Laibsch: there is nothing secret in there: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/247184/ is the complete script
[13:18] <Laibsch> Hey, awesome, it's working
[13:18] <Laibsch> Thanks, geser!
[13:20] <geser> you might want to replace EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT with STAGING_SERVICE_ROOT for testing to not manipulate real bugs
[13:51] <bac> good morning, launchpad!  i'm the designated help guy for the day, so ask your questions here.
[13:51] <gnomefreak> oh that is weird, cool but weird (the new "add comment" part)
[13:54] <Laibsch> geser: Every change I make is done in a single commit.  How can I collect all changes to be done at once?  Do you understand what I mean?
[13:54] <wgrant> Laibsch: The Launchpad API does not have transactional behaviour.
[13:54] <wgrant> All operations happen as you perform them.
[13:54] <Laibsch> so, there is no way around that?
[13:55] <Laibsch> I'm asking because I don't want to clutter up the webpage too much, if possible
[13:56] <wgrant> What is cluttered? The activity log inlined on the bug page?
[13:57] <Laibsch> yes
[13:57] <Laibsch> three boxes instead of one
[13:57] <wgrant> That's a bug that affects the web UI too now.
[13:57] <Laibsch> the connection also doesn't become immediately clear
[13:58] <wgrant> The items are meant to be grouped more aggressivel.
[13:59] <Laibsch> Well, I can currently click on the right down arrow and do all of the following at once in the web UI: change project, change assignee, change status, change importance and make a comment
[13:59] <gary_poster> Laibsch: no, there's not a way around it.  If you have a use case for transactions, send it to launchpad-dev.  If this is just a UI thing, that probably can be worked around--for instance, collapse the activity log, maybe?  Transactions in a RESTful system are somewhat of a big deal to implement, technically and/or philosophically, depending on the approach.
[13:59] <gary_poster> Really compelling use cases would probably help us to decide to work on that.  (Alternatively, maybe you want to help on implementing this, which would need to be coordinated with the other people working on the RESTful bits)
[13:59] <Laibsch> that is up to five boxes
[14:00] <wgrant> Laibsch: That is going away soon.
[14:00] <Laibsch> no, it's more aesthetical
[14:00] <Laibsch> gary_poster: ^
[14:00] <Laibsch> It does help a bit in immediately understanding changes that belong together
[14:00] <Laibsch> but as wgrant said, improvements are in the pipeline
[14:02] <Laibsch> the thing is, the mails I receive *do* group the changes I've made
[14:02] <gary_poster> Laibsch: gotcha.  I don't know what you are doing, so my suggestions are probably naive, but that hasn't stopped me before. ;-) Maybe having a semantic summary you provide that can be expanded to see the atomic Launchpad logs would be a reasonable approach.  ...or maybe the improvements in the pipeline are sufficient. :-)
[14:03] <Laibsch> It may be that I did task.lp_save too soon
[14:03] <wgrant> Laibsch: Ah. If you're just setting attributes on one object, you could just delay the call to lp_save(). But that won't help you for calling methods or altering multiple objects.
[14:03] <gary_poster> mm, yeah. you can group changes like that (on a single object).
[14:05]  * wgrant sets the Soyuz tests running, and disappears for the evening.
[14:46] <kayess> Hiya jtv :)
[14:47] <jtv> hi kayess  :-)
[16:20] <SamB> okay ... why the heck is this showing so many bugs for each branch?
[16:20] <SamB> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr-svn/0.6/+merges
[16:28] <intellectronica> SamB: well, either someone linked these branches to many bugs, or it's a bug
[16:30] <SamB> intellectronica: actually, I think the issue is that it's including associatins that are already merged into lp:bzr-svn
[16:30] <SamB> when it should only mention *new* associations
[16:30] <intellectronica> yeah, but i would think that we should only care about top-level associations
[16:31] <intellectronica> it doesn't make much sense to link to merged associations, or trunk will always be linked to gazillion bugs
[16:31] <intellectronica> rockstar: maybe you have a clue? ^^^
[16:33]  * rockstar looks
[16:34] <rockstar> Looks like it is a bug.  Luckily, that page is going to be removed in 3.0.
[16:35] <rockstar> If you look at the page for those branches, they don't show those bugs.
[16:49] <james_w> I filed that bug the other day
[18:43] <Daviey> Is it correct that the buildd queue for amd64 = 0 and i386 is 282?!
[18:45] <maxb> Daviey: You need to be aware that architecture-neutral packages are built in the i386 buildds - then it makes sense
[18:45] <Daviey> ofc. :(
[19:23] <zaytsev> Hello
[19:24] <zaytsev> I'm trying to get grips with PPA and apparently just screwed my first upload by typing incoming in my .dput.cf
[19:25] <zaytsev> Now that I've corrected the mistake dput refuses to re-upload the package since it's already uploaded...
[19:25] <zaytsev> Anybody please advice
[19:25] <micahg> bump the small version
[19:26] <micahg> it just needs to be slightly bigger
[19:26] <zaytsev> Like ~ppa1 -> ~ppa2 + debuild -S  ?
[19:26] <micahg> yep :)
[19:27] <zaytsev> Thanks, going to try that. I have another concern btw
[19:28] <zaytsev> Now that I've uploaded the thing how do I know for which distros it's going to be built?
[19:28] <zaytsev> When I type dch -i it automatically adds something like mc (2:4.7.0-pre1-1~ppa2) jaunty; urgency=low to the changelog
[19:28] <micahg> ppas can only be built for ubuntu at this point AFAIK
[19:28] <zaytsev> Does it mean that this package is going to be build for Jaunty?
[19:29] <micahg> yep
[19:29] <micahg> whatever version is specified there in the changelog
[19:29] <zaytsev> micahg, sorry wrong term, I obviously meant the version of Ubuntu
[19:29] <micahg> ok, np
[19:30] <zaytsev> OK, now the question is whether it is possible to make it build for all supported versions at once?
[19:30] <micahg> nope
[19:30] <micahg> not at the moment
[19:30] <micahg> usually they will either increment the ppa number for each version build
[19:31] <micahg> or do ppa0.09.04, ppa0.08.10,...
[19:31] <zaytsev> Aha, so I will need to redo the whole thing for Hardy / Jaunty, fair enough. Is there a switch for dch -i so that it adds entries of other dists?
[19:31] <micahg> you might want to check in the #ubuntu-motu channel for that
[19:31] <micahg> idk
[19:32] <micahg> not even redo
[19:32] <zaytsev> I'm OK with ~ppaN thing, I just want to provide Ubuntu package for every bleeding edge upstream release
[19:32] <micahg> it could just be as simple as dch -i and edit the version
[19:33] <micahg> and just add a changelog entry for each, backport to x
[19:33] <zaytsev> Aha, I see, so I don't even need to do separate changelogs for different versions?
[19:34] <micahg> zaytsev: depends if you want to change anything for the versions
[19:34] <zaytsev> Nope, no changes, just make LP to rebuild the package for different versions
[19:35] <micahg> then no, you can use the same changelog for everything
[19:35] <micahg> you might want to note no source changes as well
[19:35] <zaytsev> Cool!!! I'll give it a try! Thanks a bunch, man :-)
[19:41] <zaytsev> Oh great =( now I screwed things up because it deleted orig.tar.gz :(
[19:42] <zaytsev> This packaging thing is so unbelievably complicated for a poor humble RH packager
[19:44] <LarstiQ> awww :)
[19:44]  * LarstiQ reads backlog
[19:45] <LarstiQ> zaytsev: what do you find complicated?
[19:46] <zaytsev> Could someone please clarify whether *always* I need to do debuild -S -sa everytime I upload a package or I will have to do  debuild -S  after the first successful upload?
[19:46] <zaytsev> The orig.tar.gz of the package I'm trying to rebuild is not in the repos.
[19:47] <LarstiQ> zaytsev: in general, -sa on he first upload of that upstream version, -sd after (or not supply anything and let it detect it)
[19:48] <zaytsev> LarstiQ, thanks! It finally accepted my fist package. I will try -sd on the next upload (for a different Ubuntu version)
[19:49] <LarstiQ> zaytsev: you can also just leave it off, is what I do
[19:49] <SamB> hmm ... it seems like it would be a good idea for launchpad to prod high-priority bugs that haven't been touched in months?
[19:49] <LarstiQ> SamB: janitor?
[19:50] <SamB> what does that do?
[19:50] <zaytsev> Uhm, how it is going to detect whether I already uploaded it or not? I've missed -sa last time and it didn't complain on upload but I received a rejection email afterwards
[19:50] <zaytsev> LarstiQ, actually it is the number of the control files and strange helper utilities that scares me so much.
[19:51] <SamB> when I say "prod", I mean roughly "add a comment reminding the subscribers how long this bug has gone unresolved without comment at >=high priority"
[19:52] <zaytsev> We only have a single SPEC file and rpmrebuild -bs. This produces an SRPM file which can be then uploaded to a Koji farm via the web interface
[19:55] <LarstiQ> zaytsev: for the basics you only need debian/rules and debian/control
[19:56] <zaytsev> I understand. But it's a whole new world, and it's very different
[19:57] <LarstiQ> right
[19:57] <LarstiQ> zaytsev: reading the Debian policy might enlighten parts of that world
[20:00] <zaytsev> Oh yeah
[20:01] <zaytsev> The Intrepid upload was successful
[20:20]  * bac -> lunch
[20:37] <mrooney> sinzui: hey, I saw your reply on the blueprints subscription. is there a particular weekend time you are available to mentor me on IRC or something?
[20:38] <sinzui> mrooney: no particular one. This weekend is fine, I hack on my own launchpad agenda on weekends.
[20:42] <mrooney> sinzui: cool! I wonder how easy it is to clean up some of UI stuff as well, and have ajax changes to milestones and such
[20:42] <mrooney> though if that is already targeted for 3.0 it may not be as important
[20:43] <sinzui> mrooney: The order of magnetude form simple to hard is text change, TAL/METAL change, View Change, Model/adapter change, schema change, ajax change
[20:44] <sinzui> mrooney: It would be nice have some ajax operations on milestone listings and the owner of a project may want to create a milestone directly on the bug page.
[20:55] <mrooney> sinzui: so there is that list of like 8 things, Milestone, Driver, Approver, et cetera, with edit buttons next to each if you have permissions
[20:56] <sinzui> no
[20:56] <mrooney> no?
[20:56] <mrooney> I mean if you visit the blueprint page
[20:56] <sinzui> Oh yeah, that is insane
[20:57] <sinzui> either that page needs the inline edit widget everywhere or they should be moved to a single edit page.
[20:57] <sinzui> both actually
[20:58] <sinzui> since we want everything editable inline, then a single page for browsers we do not support
[20:59] <sinzui> mrooney: Adding an inline widget requires exposing blueprints to API first (because our AJAX talks over REST)
[20:59] <mrooney> I see
[20:59] <mrooney> one possibility is to kill the individual edit pages, and replace the "edit" button with their respective drop-down / text field
[21:00] <mrooney> so one that page, if I have permissions, all those fields are editable at the same time, with a save button or something
[21:00] <sinzui> mrooney: exposing API means annotating the classes and methods that should be public, and adding a test to prove it works. It is not hard, but is best done in several small branches as needed
[21:01] <days_of_ruin> I am trying to set up automatic exports of translations to a bzr branch that is owned by me, I set it up yesterday and AFAIK it hasn't updated it with the translation files.
[21:01] <sinzui> mrooney: we do not want a separate implementation that requires differnt rules to code. There is nothing to share in that approch
[21:01] <mrooney> I see yes, ajax is probably optimal
[21:02] <mrooney> days_of_ruin: it runs at the same time every day, if it hasn't been 24 hours perhaps it didn't occur yet?
[21:04] <days_of_ruin> mrooney, what time of the day does it run?
[21:07] <mrooney> that, I don't know
[21:38] <zaytsev> Hmm... Could someone please advise whether it is possible to rely on the packages from backports in builders
[21:38] <zaytsev> I badly need debhelper 7 on hardy, because otherwise dh_install fails :(
[21:59] <micahg> zaytsev: you can check where your ppa looks for its sources
[21:59] <micahg> *change
[21:59] <zaytsev> Wow
[21:59] <zaytsev> Sounds interesting
[22:00] <zaytsev> micahg, how would I do that?
[22:00] <micahg> zaytsev: Edit Dependencies on your ppa home page
[22:00] <zaytsev> Cool!!! Thanks
[22:01] <zaytsev> I'll have another try
[23:03] <cody-somerville> Is there a bugzilla launchpad plugin for bugzilla 3.4?
[23:31] <synic> Is there a way to manually expire bugs that are inactive for a certain amount of time?
[23:31] <synic> (but in bulk)
[23:33] <fta> cody-somerville, iirc, it stopped there: mozilla 481161
[23:35] <cody-somerville> fta, hmm?
[23:38] <fta> cody-somerville, well, that was the answer from bugzilla devs (and mozilla heads jumped in), but maybe it exists as a 3rd party thingy, no idea
[23:38] <cody-somerville> fta, There is a bugzilla launchpad plugin
[23:39] <fta> yep, but last time i spoke to the bugzilla devs, they didn't want it.
[23:42] <cody-somerville> fta, I'm not really interested if th bugzilla devs want to use it or not
[23:42] <cody-somerville> lol
[23:43] <cody-somerville> I want to know if there is a download for the 3.4 branch of bugzilla
[23:43] <cody-somerville> I see a download for 3.2 and 3.0
[23:43] <fta> ok, then nm, i don't know. i should not have tried to answer
[23:44] <cody-somerville> fta, I wouldn't say that. I greatly appreciate your attempt.
[23:45] <mwhudson> woo inline commenting
[23:46] <wgrant> mwhudson: It's a bit broken, though.
[23:46] <mwhudson> is it?
[23:46] <wgrant> But the main one is fixed in devel.
[23:46] <wgrant> The comments have an empty subject, which makes emails very confusing and hard to read.
[23:46] <james_w> cody-somerville: I thought it was included in 3.4
[23:46] <wgrant> And the UI makes me sad.
[23:46] <mwhudson> ah
[23:48] <fta> hu? inline commenting? like in google codereview?
[23:48] <mwhudson> fta: probably not, adding a bug comment doesn't reload the page now
[23:49] <fta> oh, ok
[23:49] <wgrant> Google Code's inline review commenting is pretty awesome.
[23:50] <fta> yeah, i like it too.


[00:18] <godbyk> jenkins: I responded to Phil's email. I'm not sure if I addressed his concerns or not, though.  I kind of started rambling.  And then stopped myself before going off on translations and how they're painful.
[00:19] <jenkins> yea, I did also wonder how we would deal with the different writing styles, it had slipped my mind ages ago an I forgot about it
[00:20] <godbyk> I don't think there's a really good answer.
[00:20] <godbyk> But I think that sharing our docs still has a lot of benefit.
[00:20] <godbyk> It'd certainly help us keep things in sync more easily than how we're doing it now.
[00:21] <jenkins> I think your explanation is great! we all branch from the pool, we all help to maintain it and base our work on it
[00:21]  * jenkins hopes he read it right
[00:21] <godbyk> yeah, pretty much.
[00:22] <godbyk> we have a common pool that we can pull from and contribute back to.
[00:22] <godbyk> and the system will keep track of diffs and pedigree and the like.
[00:23] <godbyk> so if one of us updates a doc because, say, the software has changed, then the docs derived from that one can be notified of the change so someone can update them accordingly.
[00:24] <jenkins> I like it :D
[00:25] <godbyk> and translations.. oh, man, there are so many things I think we should do to improve translations!
[00:27] <jenkins> yea they are not the best
[00:28] <godbyk> But before I go off on that topic too much, I'd prefer to sit down with some of our translators and get their opinions and ideas (since they're the ones who have to deal with it).
[00:30] <jenkins> yep I agree, there is so much we would like to do we need like 20 of each of us
[00:32] <godbyk> yeah.
[00:32] <godbyk> working full-time. :)
[00:37] <ChrisWoollard>
[00:37] <ChrisWoollard>                                                                                godbyk
[00:37] <ChrisWoollard> hmm. that's werid
[00:40] <ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
[00:47] <godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
[00:47] <godbyk> What's up?
[01:03] <jenkins> night all
[01:36] <godbyk> askhl_: I think new builds of the manual are online now.  http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[01:48] <askhl_> godbyk, thank you
[02:00] <godbyk> np
[13:34] <humphreybc> hey so daker what's happening with the quickshot website and the new ubuntu manual website?
[13:35] <daker> hi humphreybc
[13:35] <daker> so i have just finished
[13:35] <daker> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1582176372&v=wall&story_fbid=120633797984533&ref=mf
[13:36] <daker> i'll start working on them
[13:36] <humphreybc> ahh
[13:36] <humphreybc> cool :)
[13:37] <dutchie> humphreybc: did you hear from jenkins about the reshuffle on LP?
[13:37] <humphreybc> yep, sure did, told him to go ahead and do it
[15:53] <daker> hey @all
[15:53] <daker> what edition should be translated ?
[15:54] <daker> e1 or e2 ?
[15:54] <nisshh> daker: e1, until e2 is in writing freeze i think
[15:55] <daker> when e2 freezes we have to retranslated everything ?
[16:07] <nisshh> daker: im not sure, you should ask godbyk/humphreybc about that
[16:07] <nisshh> but i assume so yea
[16:08] <daker> nisshh, oki
[16:08] <nisshh> daker: cool
[20:11] <jenkins> dutchie: / godbyk /godbyk-sagan Ubuntu Manual Admins or Ubuntu Manual Maintainers ?
[20:12] <jenkins> for the new group
[20:19] <dutchie> admins gets my vote
[20:21] <jenkins> yea I decided maintainers looked as if only we wrote it. admins it is
[20:21] <jenkins> brb
[20:25] <c7p> hello all
[20:28] <zkriesse> Hello c7p
[20:44] <jenkins> dutchie: / godbyk-sagan / godbyk https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-admins
[20:44] <jenkins> does it all look ok?
[20:46] <dutchie> don't think it should be a public team
[20:46] <dutchie> oh, it isn't
[20:47] <dutchie> dunno why it says "Public team" at the top then
[20:47] <jenkins> only admins can add people we are all admin in the team
[20:48] <jenkins> I am not sure why it says public, otherwise people will not know which team to join if they can't see the link at the top of the page
[20:54] <jenkins> now it looks better, I will go ahead an change it lets hope I don't break anything
[20:56] <jenkins> right it is changed, lets wait and see if there are any complaints
[20:58] <jenkins>  / breackages
[21:29] <nisshh> jenkins: hey, you there?
[21:30] <jenkins> yep
[21:30] <nisshh> ok
[21:30] <nisshh> was just reading my mail and saw the admin groupd for the manual
[21:30] <nisshh> whats that about?
[21:31] <nisshh> jenkins: ^^^^
[21:31] <jenkins> its to stop settings pages like https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+settings being changed by random people, we have had problems with it being changed and we don't know who did it
[21:31] <nisshh> ah
[21:32] <jenkins> all the branches still work and everything else is done by the normal team
[21:32] <jenkins> brb
[21:32] <nisshh> ok
[21:32] <nisshh> i get it now, thanks jenkins :)
[21:32] <jenkins> i was chatting on #launchpad to wgrant and that was the suggestion.
[21:32] <jenkins> cool :)
[21:32] <nisshh> yea
[21:33] <jenkins> all the people in it are the admins for the manual team
[21:33] <nisshh> yea
[21:34] <jenkins> hopefully there are not any breakages with the changes
[21:36] <nisshh> jenkins: lets hope so, but its unlikely given the fact that we are adding to the existing team, not subtracting
[21:36] <nisshh> jenkins: plus, the fact that wgrant suggested leads me to believe that its been done before :)
[21:37] <jenkins> well he did not directly suggest it he said something like you should not have a team that big owning a project
[22:23] <godbyk> jenkins: I think the admins team page looks okay.
[22:23] <godbyk> jenkins: Did you switch over the bzr commit access and translation stuff (permissions)?
[22:27] <jenkins> godbyk: commit access still for the normal team ubuntu-manual
[22:28] <jenkins> translation permissons and other settings are now only changed by the 7 people in the team. thats how it should work
[22:38] <jenkins> godbyk: is there anything else that needs checking to see if it is correct?
[22:45] <godbyk> I think those are the main two.
[22:45] <godbyk> we haven't had any real problems with people committing stuff (that I recall).  primarily, I just don't like the translation stuff being changed randomly.
[23:00] <jenkins> thanks godbyk, hopefully this will solve the problem
[23:00] <jenkins> * help to
[23:09] <nisshh> jenkins: btw, can you push your work on the dev manual to lp? id like to have a read, just to see what you have come up with
[23:09] <jenkins> yea sure I have not done much but it is a start
[23:09] <nisshh> cool
[23:10] <nisshh> ill be doing a crapload of work on the dev manual today as well
[23:12] <nisshh> jenkins: you know where the trunk branch is on lp right?
[23:13] <jenkins> yea I am jsut pushing I had to make it to check for errors :)
[23:13] <jenkins> pushed
[23:13] <nisshh> ok cool
[23:14] <jenkins> I just need to cover the 4 commads that were listed to go into that chapter
[23:15] <nisshh> right
[23:15] <nisshh> jenkins: did you forget to do bzr add?
[23:16] <jenkins> yep :(
[23:16] <nisshh> because your chapter isnt there :)
[23:16] <nisshh> hehe
[23:16] <nisshh> i ALWAYS forget to
[23:17] <jenkins> pushed again
[23:18] <nisshh> ok
[23:30] <nisshh> godbyk: you there?
[23:41] <godbyk> nisshh: yep. what's up?
[23:54] <nisshh> godbyk: ah, you are there, cool, ok, i just was looking for how to format links in the dev manual, i cant find anything in the style guide about it
[23:55] <nisshh> figured there must be some command for it
[23:59] <godbyk> nisshh: what kind of links?  like URLs?  if so, try \url{http://blah.com/blah/blah.html}.


[04:35] <mahounoai> hey
[04:35] <mahounoai> anybody know how to incluude the sun-j2re1.5 into firefox?


[08:21]  * Unit193 ponders what you do for keysigning when your gov ID doesn't show your proper name.
[13:02] <dzho> s/for keysigning//
[13:03] <dzho> in general, I think the idea is, get a government id that shows your proper name, for some value of "proper"
[13:03]  * dzho has some problems with the common conceptions of what constitutes "proper" here, but whatever
[13:03] <dzho> many of them related to http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
[13:04] <jenni> [ Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names | Kalzumeus Software ] - https://j.mp/1sqvUqb
[13:05] <Unit193> Was thinking that I could sign the license ID number or something.
[13:09] <dzho> what is the barrier to getting another govt id issued?
[13:12] <Unit193> With "Unit 193"?
[13:21] <dzho> oh, I see.
[13:21] <dzho> this does hinge quite completely on "proper"
[13:22] <Unit193> Heh, yeeeah...