[07:12] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:17] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:01] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you doing?
[12:19] <BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, fine here , and you?
[12:20] <lordievader> Doing good, reading the backlog of the Kubuntu meeting of yesterday.
[17:43] <daftykins> an especially needy one on your case today i see, EriC^ ;)
[17:43] <EriC^> hehe
[17:43] <EriC^> oreos :D
[17:43] <EriC^> he found my weakness
[17:44] <daftykins> ;)
[17:45] <daftykins> i only popped back in because i had to boot into a new kernel
[17:45] <EriC^> you're not sticking around? =(
[17:54] <daftykins> not sure, had a nice 10+ day break there
[17:54] <daftykins> all the trolls were getting a bit much, shame to let them win in a way though i suppose
[17:54] <EriC^> yeah


 We've been dealing with tucows and their limping mail cluster. :/
[01:26] <canthus13> "30% of cluster B's accounts are not able to log in. we don't have it isolated, but we CAN rotate it around within that 30% so different accounts are affected at different times."
[01:27] <canthus13> mail server roulette. :/
[01:27]  * canthus13 wonders what kinda of mail server allows for you to move the problem around, but not fix it.
[01:28] <canthus13> apparently their storage hardware is through oracle, and it's some odd hardware issue.
[01:31] <thafreak> well there you go...it's an oracle problem
[01:32] <thafreak> This customer was always adamant about keeping mail in house...
[01:32] <thafreak> But they were like why's it not back up yet...do we need to buy another server...lets do it now
[01:32] <canthus13> thafreak: That's fine if they're small.. but managing a million mail accounts... leave that to a hosting company you can blame when things go wrong.
[01:32] <thafreak> I was like now, the hardware is fine...i just need to re-setup everything
[01:32] <thafreak> well after this mess, I
[01:33] <thafreak> I may push them towards google business again
[01:33] <thafreak> see if they bite now
[01:33] <canthus13> google business... that can be expensive, quick.
[01:34] <canthus13> fifty bucks per year per account iirc.
[01:35] <canthus13> but worth it for a few accounts.
[01:49] <thafreak> yeah...but there's nothing else really out there as comprehensive
[01:49] <thafreak> except all the places offering hosted exchange...and well fuck that noise
[02:05] <canthus13> ew. exchange.
[02:05]  * canthus13 has been on a few really bad dates with exchange. :/
[02:06] <thafreak> yeah, my univeristy just switched all of us employees...from exchange
[02:06] <thafreak> to HOSTED exchange
[02:06] <canthus13> OWA?
[02:06] <canthus13> my girl's school uses OWA. :/
[02:06] <thafreak> thing is, I had software that talked to our exchange server via OWA, and gave me an imap server
[02:07] <thafreak> sso I could use tbird still
[02:07] <thafreak> but now that it's hosted, it uses federated login crap and does all this redirect stuff...
[02:07] <thafreak> needless to say, my software no longer works :(
[02:07] <thafreak> now I'm stuck with the web version of the desktop outlook client
[02:08] <thafreak> if I hated the desktop client...why would I like the near clone of it, but with more complicated to find anything features
[02:09]  * thafreak is half tempted to set up a mailserver and forward all my exchange mails >:)
[02:09] <canthus13> Heh.
[02:09] <thafreak> Oh, and hosted exchange supports IMAP...but the geniuses on campus deemed it too insecure...or some other halfassed answer, and won't allow it to be enabled
[02:10] <thafreak> probably cause the stupid federated login bullsh*t
[02:11] <thafreak> FYI. for anyone who cares...imapcopy, which is in the debian repos, works great for copying mail from one imap server to another
[02:11] <thafreak> none of the other tools I ran across I could get to work well...
[02:11] <thafreak> so I'm giving imapcopy a recomendation here :)
[02:12] <canthus13> cool.
[02:12] <canthus13> I just need to fight my way through getting postfix to allow connections from off-server.
[02:12]  * canthus13 idd it once before... then the server committed suicide.
[02:13] <thafreak> archivemail also was cool...but it mainly just pulled mails from imap, put them in a n mbox and gzipped it
[02:14] <thafreak> i have one user with over 18k emails...in the inbox :/
[02:14] <thafreak> not in subfolders of inbox...right there in the inbox
[02:15] <canthus13> bet that's fun when it loads...
[02:15] <thafreak> that's going to take hours
[02:15] <thafreak> yeah...i have no sympathy for them complaining about email being slow
[02:16] <thafreak> need to make sure their laptop isn't missing the delete key
[02:16] <canthus13> Our nitwit network admins shut down a guy who had a setup like that because it kept syncing across the internet.. they thought he was running a mail server. (Which is against TOS without a static IP...)
[02:16] <canthus13> something like 10GB every time he synced.
[02:16] <canthus13> not sure if he was just reinstalling all the time, or outlook was having issues, or what.
[02:16] <thafreak> that's a silly amount of email
[02:16]  * canthus13 figures he was prolly keeping every spam he ever received.
[02:17] <thafreak> i'm half tempted to dump all my old email to gzip'd mbox files...so I can search with zgrep
[02:17] <thafreak> plus I rarely look at it...
[02:18] <thafreak> I tend to keep it all on gmail since I can search gmail pretty easily...but I can also pretty easily ssh to a box and bust out zgrep
[02:19] <canthus13> zgrep?
[02:19] <thafreak> So, your TOS would not allow any of my machines then
[02:19] <thafreak> they all have email servers for sending me email when things happen :)
[02:19] <canthus13> thafreak: not unless you had a static IP. then you can do pretty much anything legal.
[02:19] <thafreak> what if the email all just looks like normal smtp traffic to gmail?
[02:19] <canthus13> and if they only sent a few messages here and there, it wouldn't matter. they're more worried about illegal spam servers.
[02:20] <canthus13> this dude had a pretty constant stream of mail straffic.
[02:20] <thafreak> ah, not crypted mail traffic
[02:20] <canthus13> *traffic
[02:20] <thafreak> yes, zgrep is the gzip friendly version of grep
[02:20] <thafreak> there's also a bzgrep too
[02:20] <thafreak> kinda like zcat | grep
[02:21] <canthus13> ah. cool.
[02:21]  * thafreak tends to use it alot on compressed rotated logs
[05:39] <gilbert> paultag: seems like a great idea :)
[05:39] <gilbert> paultag: is there a charge to create a bof
[05:39] <gilbert> paultag: btw, what day are you getting in?
[05:39]  * gilbert really needs to check irc more often
[11:52] <andygraybeal> morning
[12:01] <paultag> gilbert: don't think so, and friday night with mathay
[12:01] <paultag> brb, work
[14:31] <paultag> Cheri703: you should get on the re-app for Ohio
[14:31] <paultag> Cheri703: also, what's up the the package, did it get in?
[14:32] <paultag> we will get unapproved if nothing goes on
[14:57] <Cheri703> I had sent the request and got a positive response, it's getting shipped to itsafork, so I'll check in with him to let me know when it arrives
[14:58] <paultag> ack, ty :)
[15:08] <canthus13> Yarr... It be Talk Like A Pirate Day, mateys.
[15:08] <paultag> 11:08 <+CERNTHERS13> ERR... ERT BE TERLK LERKE A PERTE DER, MAHTERS.
[15:08]  * canthus13 got a reprimand from a giggling supervisor for Talk Like a Pirate Day a couple of years ago...
[15:09] <paultag> did you take support calls like that?
[15:09] <canthus13> I did... 'til I got told not to.
[15:10] <paultag> :)
[15:57] <Darkwing> Ubuntu have a booth at OLF?
[15:58] <paultag> Ubuntu have booth
[15:58] <paultag> (Well, Ohio LoCo, last I knew)
[15:58] <Darkwing> Okay...
[15:58] <paultag> Darkwing: what's up, brotato?
[15:58] <Darkwing> I'll bring some Kubuntu handouts if anyone is interested...
[15:58] <paultag> nice :)
[15:58] <paultag> If the conf-packs still have them, we might have Kubuntu CDs
[15:58] <Darkwing> I'll have some paper flyers stuff and if they arrive in time I might have some stickers
[15:58] <paultag> but I don't know the state of that
[15:59] <Darkwing> Kubuntu doesn't get CDs anymore.
[15:59] <paultag> ah.
[15:59] <paultag> well, fuck.
[15:59] <Darkwing> Part of the whole "Canonical dropping commercial support thing"
[15:59] <paultag> ah.
[15:59] <paultag> what a shame.
[15:59] <paultag> I'll have to find my Kubuntu shirt to wear.
[16:00] <Darkwing> and Riddell isn't getting a ride to UDS (Me either actually, ignoring the LoCo stuff I do) anymore either.
[16:00] <paultag> le sigh
[16:00] <Darkwing> I'll have an older Kubuntu polo I'm wearing.
[16:00] <paultag> become debian contributors
[16:00] <paultag> then say you're fostering upstream collaboration
[16:01] <Darkwing> I'm staying with Kubuntu... we are working on getting outside commercial support. $2500 was donated randomly to help get developers to UDS
[16:02] <paultag> legit.
[16:03] <Darkwing> Plus, with Blue Systems... we are going to actually have a swag budget
[16:04] <Darkwing> Oh, to the rest of the Ohio Loco... I'm David Wonderly AKA Darkwing. I was a lead in the California Loco till I moved to Fort Wayne, Indiana. :D I'm also on the Kubuntu council and a Kubuntu/KDE developer.
[16:14] <paultag> ^5
[16:23] <canthus13> Darkwing: Cool. I may be rooming with the guy that runs ILF on saturday night...
[16:23] <Darkwing> Oh good. I wanted to get with him...
[16:23] <Darkwing> I helped setup and run SCaLE last year.
[16:24] <Darkwing> (Southern California Linux Expo)
[16:24] <Darkwing> I'm only going to be able to be there on Sat.
[16:24] <canthus13> Darkwing: I'll be by the Ubuntu booth on saturday.. I'll introduce you.
[16:24] <Darkwing> Awesome.
[16:25] <canthus13> my wife is gonna be helping out with his booth, so I'll be back and forth.
[16:25] <Darkwing> Oh sweet.
[16:25] <Darkwing> I'll be bringing my Girlfriend (New to linux) with me.
[16:25] <Darkwing> What booth is his?
[16:26] <canthus13> ILF usually has a booth at OLF.
[16:26] <canthus13> That's where he'll be.
[16:26] <Darkwing> Oh cool!
[16:27] <Darkwing> He lurk IRC somewhere?
[16:27] <canthus13> Big bald guy with a red goatee.. usually wears a kilt. and I believe he's in ##infonomicon or #infonomicon
[16:28] <Darkwing> Okay sweet. :)
[16:28] <canthus13> He's not in there now... goes by Drachenblut
[16:28] <Darkwing> Thanks
[16:29] <canthus13> no prob.
[17:05] <paultag> was he the one that got married at OLF?
[17:05] <paultag> Cheri703: ^
[17:05] <paultag> erm
[17:05] <paultag> canthus13: ^
[17:05] <paultag> sorry Cheri703
[17:05] <canthus13> paultag: Umm.. I don't think so.
[17:05] <paultag> hurm.
[17:05] <paultag> I forgot who that was.
[17:05] <paultag> someone with a kilt, for sure.
[17:14] <snap-l> Yeah, because there's so few men with bald heads and kilts at tech conferences
[17:15] <snap-l> It's like saying "Oh, he's the guy with glasses and a T-shirt"
[17:15] <paultag> true enough :)
[17:25] <thafreak> gotta love this...
[17:26] <thafreak> "Also fyi image preview does work with pngs in the first principle site;
[17:26] <thafreak> just not pdfs.  For now, that will work."
[17:26] <thafreak> it's probably because pdf's are not technically images...
[17:42] <Cheri703> itsafork has confirmed: Conference pack has arrived, still waiting on CD shipment and UW stuff
[17:43] <paultag> \o/
[17:44] <Cheri703> yep :)
[19:42] <paultag> jacob_: jacob_ jacob_ jacob_ jacob_ jacob_
[19:42] <paultag> jacob_: jacob_ jacob_
[19:42] <paultag> jacob_: I can't tell you how much I just giggled at https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/533575_10151067736841840_253020954_n.jpg
[19:42] <jacob_> haha
[19:42] <jacob_> i had so much fun with that picture
[19:43] <paultag> oh god
[19:43] <paultag> there's a fullsize
[19:43] <paultag> hahahahahahahahahahaha
[19:43] <jacob> yes
[19:43] <paultag> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550639_411203915607924_1872869396_n.jpg
[19:43] <paultag> aaaaaaahahahahaha
[19:43] <jacob> :D
[19:44] <paultag> so good
[19:45] <jacob> now all it needs is an impact-font caption
[19:45] <jacob> and then business will be complete
[19:45] <paultag> I can do that.
[19:50] <paultag> jacob: http://i.imgur.com/2K9OI.jpg
[19:50] <jacob> awesome
[19:56] <Darkwing> paultag: either that or as a caption: "Then I told them that the iPhone 5 was innovative."
 The company I was working for folded. :/
[20:15] <paultag> wait, what? I thought you were working for something super stable
[20:28] <Darkwing> I was... and it was super stable...
[20:29] <Darkwing> Then I guess the owners son embezzled a bunch of money and it was legal because of some signatures
[20:29] <Darkwing> So they had to fold.
[20:29] <paultag> dafuq
[20:29] <Darkwing> Yeah.
[20:29] <Darkwing> I guess he told his dad (The owner) that it was one thing and it wasn't
[20:30] <paultag> that's absurdity
[20:30] <Darkwing> so, it was totally legal but ended up crashing the effing company
[20:30] <Darkwing> So, I'm jobless again.
[20:38] <Cheri703> that happens a lot more than people think :/ yay human greed!
[20:40] <thafreak> if you were buying mobile broadband device...would you get the usb stick, or the wifi enabled hotspot
[20:40] <Darkwing> wifi hotspot.
[20:41] <thafreak> you don't think those are less secure?
[20:41] <Darkwing> Nope. WPA2 is WPA2
[20:41] <thafreak> the chances of some one cracking my wpa2 and stealing my bandwidth aren't that high?
[20:41] <Cheri703> you can often plug them in
[20:41] <Cheri703> directly to the computer
[20:41] <Darkwing> No more than piggybacking your mobile signal.
[20:42] <paultag> thafreak: usually, they have an indicator with how many are connecting
[20:42] <paultag> erm, connected
[20:42] <thafreak> http://store.truconnect.com/devices/truconnect-mifi.html
[20:42] <Cheri703> "Micro USB port for charging and tethered use"
[20:42] <Cheri703> so you can have it plugged in for "security" and wifi for convenience
[20:42] <thafreak> so, forgive me as I haven't looked into this much, I just usually avoid wifi when possible
[20:42] <Darkwing> ahhhh.
[20:43] <thafreak> if two people are on the same wpa2 wifi, can they see each other's traffic?
[20:43] <paultag> no
[20:43] <paultag> that's an unencrypted thing
[20:43] <paultag> since you won't get the packets when you're in promisc mode
[20:43]  * Cheri703 did support for AT&T and the mifi devices and such
[20:43] <thafreak> so each device gets it's own key I guess
[20:43] <paultag> yeah
[20:43] <paultag> just like ssl
[20:43] <yano> you'd need to set your wifi card to monitor mode
[20:43] <paultag> yano: that only works for unencrypted packets
[20:44] <paultag> WPA uses symetrical keypairs to avoid that
[20:44] <paultag> (and friends)
[20:44]  * thafreak has been meaning to set up a dummy wifi to experiment with
[20:44] <paultag> symmetrical
[20:44] <thafreak> that's what she said
[20:44] <yano> if one disconnects from an AP, set their wifi card to monitor mode, fires up airodump-ng, saves traffic of friend on AP, assuming they know the PSK for the AP they can un-encrypt the saved packets
[20:45] <yano> i'm skipping over a few steps, but that's the gist of the idea
[20:45] <paultag> you're assuming it's using a PSK
[20:45] <paultag> erm, wait
[20:45] <paultag> you're assuming you've cracked the PSK
[20:46] <paultag> which is not really as easy as you were making it out to be
[20:46] <paultag> 16:43 < yano> you'd need to set your wifi card to monitor mode
[20:48] <yano> true
[20:48] <thafreak> but if I know the psk, can I then decrypt the traffic from other people on the wpa2?
[20:49] <yano> thafreak: yes
[20:49] <thafreak> is that why they say the enterprise mode where there is no psk is better?
[20:49] <yano> hence why you want to limit who you give your PSK out to
[20:49] <yano> thafreak: yea because the username AND the password are hashed together
[20:49] <thafreak> cause we use wpa2 at work...but it's like radius auth or something, no psk
[20:49] <yano> because not only would you need someone else's username but also their password
[20:50] <yano> yea, OSU has a Radius server set up with PEAP
[20:50] <thafreak> hmm...I think I'm doing radius auth for my house then
[20:50] <yano> meh, i tried it once. huge PITA
[20:50] <yano> but then again that was 3 years ago
[20:50] <yano> and since i was the only user, i said screwed it and just changed my PSK once a month (use to use something from http://grc.com/password )
[20:52] <yano> not many APs let you give them the 64 character hexidecimal for the PSK (which is basically a representation of the 63 printable ASCII characters (assuming you are using 63 characters, which you should be!))
[20:55] <yano> the 64 character hexidecimal representation is actually the 256 bit key and it's derived by using the PBKDF2 algorithm on the provided PSK (for example if you provided something like "p@ssw0rd" as your password, it would PBKDF2(p@ssw0rd) and that's the 64 character hexideciaml representation)
[21:01] <thafreak> well, mobile broadband ordered...I hope it arrives before I leave for OLF...
[21:03] <skellat> thafreak: Which provider?


[03:57] <superm1> stgraber: oh okay.  i was just concerned based on barry's comment on that bug that it was only showing up with py3dbus, nvm then
[05:03] <ekaj> My USB drive keeps getting frozen at the 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD Copyright... page when I use UNetBootin and LiLo.. http://pastebin.com/NFfASGDD
[09:22] <cjwatson> xnox: Blackyugin annoyingly keeps leaving IRC after asking their question, but their pastebin doesn't actually contain a real error, just a failure to debsign, which is ignorable
[09:22] <xnox> cjwatson: yeap. the most interesting bit was that Blackyugin is working on 'Reinstall from (editor: ubuntu one) sync'?!
[09:25] <cjwatson> Yes, some set of those people turned up a week or so ago and we talked about it
[09:25] <cjwatson> I'm a bit sceptical, but the design is at least moderately unintrusive (no extra mandatory page or anything), so we'll see
[09:26] <xnox> ok
[14:03] <CIA-12> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5505 trunk/debian/ (77 files in 2 dirs): merge lp:~dmitrij.ledkov/ubiquity/no-m-a-po
[14:04] <xnox> cjwatson: any reason we don't run debconf-updatepoo in the clean target? It doesn't seem to have side-effects if there is nothing to update.
[14:04] <cjwatson> My experience is packages that do so are a royal pain in the arse
[14:05] <xnox> cjwatson: or for example as part of update target
[14:05] <cjwatson> They tend to give you giant diffs when all you were trying to do was a no-change upload
[14:05] <xnox> =)
[14:05] <xnox> ok.
[14:06] <cjwatson> The problem with doing it in the update target is that that's what I tell people to do who aren't doing development but who are trying to just do a build from bzr
[14:06] <cjwatson> So I'd like that not to change too much
[14:06] <cjwatson> I dunno, I know it isn't quite ideal the way it is; OTOH it really ought not to be that much to ask for developers to remember to run debconf-updatepo when changing templates :)
[14:07] <cjwatson> So not really sure
[14:08] <xnox> anyway =) today I learned how debconf translations are used in gtk =)


[13:49] <freakynl> So uhm - who do I poke here to get bugs solved? Cause I'm quite fed up with waiting - it almost seems likes nobody looks at launchpad to begin with
[21:57] <melodie> hello
[22:06] <TheLordOfTime> hiya, melodie
[22:07] <melodie> hi TheLordOfTime !


[00:42] <derekv> This Developer's Life
[00:42] <derekv> good.
[00:47] <rick_h_droid> awesome
[00:52] <snap-l> http://bluesock.org/~willg/blog/pyvideo/status_20120819.html
[01:03] <rick_h_droid> the only thing I got out of that was this backlog link doesn't show pyohio at all
[01:03] <rick_h_droid> http://pyvideo.org/suggestions/videos
[01:03] <snap-l> Yeah, I know
[01:04] <snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/jOBZn.jpg
[01:06] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha https://twitter.com/zzzeek/status/237344723319271424
[01:06] <snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome.
[01:34] <brousch> rick_h_: suckup :P
[01:35] <rick_h_droid> you know it
[01:36] <rick_h_droid> I live on his software libraries, gotta suck up
[01:48] <brousch> That is awesome though
[02:06] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, nice to have your programming hero say a nice thing or two.
[11:16] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:16] <rick_h_> morning
[12:21] <CrusaderAD> Hello, anyone in here familiar with reading usb plug n play devices?
[12:21] <brousch> Reading?
[12:22] <CrusaderAD> yep, I've got a Dymo USB pnp scale and was curious how I'd go about reading it's weight. The manufacturer and seller are useless resources.
[12:29] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: Well, in order to read the device, you'd need something to tell the device what sort of device it should be
[12:29] <snap-l> whether that's a serial device, or what-not
[12:29] <snap-l> and then some program to interpret the results.
[12:30] <snap-l> http://steventsnyder.com/reading-a-dymo-usb-scale-using-python/
[12:30] <snap-l> You can usually get the vendor ID and device ID by typing `dmesg` soon after plugging in the device.
[12:31] <snap-l> sorry, product ID, not device ID.
[12:32] <CrusaderAD> yep, I found that article on google too, I didn't know that about the vendor id, thanks!
[12:32] <snap-l> np
[12:41] <CrusaderAD> http://pastebin.com/J7YFSi8L do you know which set of numbers it is?
[12:41] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/fm
[12:42] <snap-l> I can finally talk about this. :)
[12:42] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: one sec. There's an easier way.
[12:42] <brousch> snap-l: Dammit. That started blasting music when I opened the page
[12:42] <snap-l> try usb-devices
[12:43] <snap-l> brousch: UNfortunately yes
[12:43] <brousch> So streaming metal station?
[12:43] <CrusaderAD> span-l thanks, that's better
[12:43] <snap-l> Yep
[12:43] <snap-l> With me doing some of the programming (check the schedule)
[12:44] <snap-l> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8120/radio <- direct link
[12:48] <brousch> I like span-l. You should change your name
[12:49] <snap-l> Heh
[12:49] <snap-l> Actually I was thinking of changing my handle
[12:50] <brousch> spankl
[13:11] <CrusaderAD> snap-l: I'm getting a "usb.core.USBError: [Errno 16] Resource busy" error, any idea what that means?
[13:33] <smoser> jcastro, do you have your X1 Carbon yet ?
[13:33] <jcastro> it's too big
[13:33] <jcastro> but I have been eyeballing it
[13:33] <smoser> its 14 inch?
[13:33] <jcastro> also eyeing the X230
[13:34] <jcastro> yes
[13:34] <rick_h_> x230 ftw
[13:34] <rick_h_> dual ssd :)
[13:35] <jcastro> what a shame about the X1
[13:36] <jcastro> 14 inch laptop is not an ultrabook, it's just a really thin laptop!
[13:43] <smoser> that is true. the 14 inch doesn't open all the way in those coach seats.
[13:46] <rick_h_> I'm debating getting that slice battery before my next conference for the x230
[13:46] <rick_h_> go all day long!
[13:47] <rick_h_> jcastro: bug heads up, with the x230 I did have a lockup bug going on and some wifi dropping issues on occassion
[13:47] <jcastro> I am not buying any time soon
[13:48] <jcastro> which wifi card on your X230?
[13:48] <rick_h_> intel
[13:51] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/yirdc/a_generation_lost_in_the_bazaar/c5vxtc6
[13:51] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: Try running as root to see if that'll fix it
[13:52] <CrusaderAD> snap-l: tried with sudo, I get that result
[13:53] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: Perhaps it has already registered itself as a serial device, then?
[13:53] <snap-l> Not sure, as I don't have that scale to test. :)
[13:53] <CrusaderAD> snap-l: no big deal, thanks for the help, I'll keep researching it :)
[13:53] <rick_h_> cop out
[13:53] <rick_h_> :P
[13:53] <snap-l> rick_h_: Feel free to step in
[13:53]  * rick_h_ goes back to work
[13:54] <snap-l> The dance continues, even if the partners change. ;)
[14:13] <jrwren> i wrastled with lvm last night and won.
[14:14] <jrwren> am tip: if you don't say what kind of mirror log to use it will be disk and lvm will put it on any disk, probably one you didn't want it too
[14:14] <jrwren> what about the thinkpad t430u, even smaller than 430s ?
[14:18] <jrwren> snap-l: that ACM post is really just someone who doesn't understand the difference between source and build results and packages.
[14:19] <jcastro> the 430s looks great
[14:19] <jcastro> snap-l: do you still have that X130?
[14:19] <snap-l> jrwren: It's a UNIX Grognard hoping for a retro-world where machines were sacred resources, not something you carried in your pocket.
[14:20] <snap-l> X120, and yes.
[14:20] <jcastro> I think I might get the newer one of that model
[14:20] <jrwren> i'd like to try a samsung seriews 7 or 9 for a year
[14:20] <snap-l> jcastro: Go for it
[17:30] <greg-g> snap-l: I haven't read either Chris Randall's pdf, nor this post by Techdirt on it, but, here you go: www.techdirt.com/articles/20120815/15530420064/musician-chris-randall-music-has-no-monetary-value-connections-it-forms-are-priceless.shtml
[17:32] <brousch> I think snap-l posted that last week
[17:40] <greg-g> oh, wow, that is from 8/15, huh, I'm a bit behind (Senior Leadership Retreat thing Tues-Thurs, then Tahoe Sat/Sun)
[17:40] <greg-g> also, who here follows FLOSS Robotics stuff, do you know/have an opinion on http://www.willowgarage.com ?
[17:52] <krondor> I don't know too much about it, but I like their vision statement.  I dislike that it's bsd license I think
[17:54] <greg-g> as opposed to apache or gpl?
[17:54] <greg-g> (apache having clear patent language, gpl being reciprocal)
[17:55] <krondor> exactly... I also think hardware not just software is going to be big sticking points in robotics but maybe I'm wrong.
[17:55] <krondor> like patent on grasping hands and locomotion systems and such
[17:55] <greg-g> we (CC) are going to have a couple people from there come talk to use during our quarterly staff get together, why I asked.
[17:55]  * greg-g nods
[17:56] <krondor> I once worked on this, but it was ages ago and I haven't really followed legal hardware stuff in awhile; http://orpp.sourceforge.net/
[17:58] <greg-g> yeah, the open hardware problem is a tough legal nut to crack
[17:58] <greg-g> patents are horribly hard to deal with
[17:59] <jrwren> how can you dislike BSD Liencse?  its the freeest of free!
[18:00] <greg-g> kiiinda
[18:00] <greg-g> define free ;)
[18:01] <greg-g> I like to know that the software I'm using doesn't also have patents attached
[18:01] <greg-g> patents that will be enforced on me, that is
[18:01] <jrwren> free for me to use.
[18:01] <jrwren> only thing freer is CC0 or PD
[18:02] <greg-g> (yes, there is no gaurantee that some random other entity doesn't have a patent covering the exact same process, thus, the quagmire of open patents)
[18:02] <jrwren> free to abuse
[18:02] <jrwren> free to embrace and extend
[18:02] <jrwren> patents can diaf :)
[18:02] <greg-g> word.
[18:02] <jrwren> the red flag of patents gets raised far too often.
[18:03] <jrwren> rule 1 of patent fear: don't be afraid, if you are so big that someone wants to come after you for infringement, you are already a success.
[18:03] <greg-g> its the reason CC0 isn't an OSI approved option
[18:03] <jrwren> rule 2 of patent fear: if you are still reading, you arn't a success and are small potatoes, so go get successful and stop fearing the patents
[18:06] <krondor> jrwren: in software I would agree on patents, in hardware I would disagree.
[18:07] <jrwren> why?
[18:07] <krondor> because I've seen small time companies slapped with patent suits early in dev stages after demoing a prototype on a tradeshow floor
[18:08] <jrwren> sucks to be them.
[18:10] <krondor> my point being that in hardware patents are much more often enforced (and probably more legitimate than software).  Which is fine.
[18:11] <krondor> But in open source robotics the fear is that because they're much more often enforced the open source startup will be bullied even if there is prior art as the field is new.
[18:11] <krondor> Big companies have an opportunity to grab patents on the X ways to do Y, which given laws of phyics, might be the only viable ways to do Y leaving you at an impass
[18:12] <jrwren> sounds like fud
[18:12] <greg-g> it isn't though
[18:13] <greg-g> patents should diaf, not only because FLOSS hardware startups are bullied with them
[18:18] <jrwren> snap-l: someone commented on reddit and now its gone or I can't find it. They said "ah you used my favorite stack, pyramid, mako, etc..."
[18:18] <jrwren> and I was looking for the list of etc.
[18:18] <jrwren> sqlalchemy is in there, but I can't find this comment.
[18:18] <rick_h_> jrwren: that was mike bayer on twitter
[18:18] <rick_h_> he wrote sqlalchemy, mako, and alembic
[18:18] <greg-g> E_TOO_MANY_SOCIAL_STREAMS
[18:19] <jrwren> rick_h_: ah, thanks.
[18:19] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/zzzeek/status/237344723319271424
[18:22] <jrwren> thanks again.
[18:22] <jrwren> that is above and beyond
[18:24] <rick_h_> yea, nice to get kind words from your programming heros and all that
[18:27] <snap-l> greg-g: That techdirt article on Chris Randall's post is an excellent summary
[18:28] <snap-l> And i posted the original article. Saw the Chris Randall post this morning.
[18:28] <snap-l> er, the Techdirt summary
[18:38] <brousch> Ooooh, this has potential http://www.geeknote.me/
[18:39] <brousch> Evernote command line client
[18:39] <snap-l> nice!
[18:45] <jjesse> anyone listen to the interview w/ Leo Laporte and the CEO of Evernote?
[18:45] <jjesse> i think it was on triangulation or whatever it is called
[18:46] <rick_h_> jjesse: yea
[18:46] <rick_h_> listened to half of it
[18:46] <jjesse> i thought it was very interesting, said the company was willing/open to an Open Source version of Evernote
[18:46] <jjesse> and i think he even mentioned they might help fund it?
[18:46] <rick_h_> yea
[18:46] <jjesse> i thought that was pretty cool
[18:47] <rick_h_> time to add an 'evernote suppor level' to your kickstarter for your linux app :)
[18:47] <rick_h_> hmmm, think this geeknote could just be dropbox + grep though
[18:48] <rick_h_> but one guy on my bookie reddit thread brought up his bookmark tool he wrote that used evernote as a backend to sync off
[18:48] <rick_h_> interesting idea for backup strategy, and our notes would be cool because they have web page content
[18:53]  * snap-l sees a bookie dropbox api in the future
[18:55] <rick_h_> I debate on that. I think it only makes sense for non-html content like pdfs and such you might 'bookmark'
[18:56] <snap-l> "Make offline"
[18:56] <snap-l> or even "sync to dropbox"
[18:56] <snap-l> You already have readable support
[18:56] <rick_h_> yea, one day I guess
[18:56] <snap-l> drop it in my read_review folder on dropbox, and I love you long time. ;)
[18:56] <rick_h_> well yea, i did think about dropping the readable content you mark !toread into a single .html file and dump into dropbox
[18:57] <rick_h_> yea, exactly
[18:57] <rick_h_> it's part of the work for the reading view to do
[18:58] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/yiw4s/instead_of_buying_instagram_for_1_billion_cash/ <- ouch
[19:03] <snap-l> NIce to see the logging bot back here
[19:20] <snap-l> Dropbox acting strange for anyone else?
[19:22] <brousch> Not that I noticed
[19:22] <snap-l> hurm
[20:01] <jcastro> jrwren: hah, stay classy yahoo answers
[20:23] <jrwren> hahaha.
[20:28] <snap-l> ?
[20:29] <snap-l> Just saw twitter
[20:30] <snap-l> I'd trust Yahoo Answers to let me know how to get crumbs out of my toaster with a fork sooner than trust them for anything else.
[20:36] <brousch> So sad. I think Django will get Python3 support before Flask
[20:40] <jrwren> it was funny.
[20:40] <jrwren> yahoo answers is entertainment.
[20:49] <greg-g> really, they should just rebrand it as the StackExchange for Comedy
[20:50] <Blazeix> StackExchange: Jersey Shore Edition
[20:53] <jrwren> haha, nice, both of you.
[21:37] <waldo323_> wait, yahoo answers isn't run by the onion?
[23:52]  * snap-l loves UHF
[23:52] <snap-l> just picked up four Obituary CDs
[23:53] <snap-l> to add to the two that I picked up last time.


[00:14] <bluesabre> hey all
[00:34] <bluesabre> ochosi, knome, elfy: maybe we should add pkexec policies to xubuntu-default-settings instead of individual packages to maintain translations... thoughts?
[00:35] <bluesabre> + Unit193
[01:26]  * bluesabre finally reads the rest of the backlog
[01:26] <bluesabre> but yeah, for translations, I think it has to be either upstream or with xds
[01:46] <bluesabre> ^ http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/502
[02:33] <Unit193> I'd vote upstream, then.
[03:32] <skellat> ochosi, bluesabre: This needs follow-up by one of you -- http://askubuntu.com/q/512257/139532
[05:53] <elfy> bluesabre: that makes sense to me
[06:37] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre - there were updates today for a couple of gstreamer packages, tied up with bug 1346821
[06:37] <elfy> appears to fix the issue with parole bug 1356979
[06:39] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1346821/comments/9
[07:17] <Unit193> elfy: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core doesn't have them select "Install" or "Command-line install", not sure if it's planned.  The tasksel name is 'Xubuntu minimal installation', not sure if that matters to you.
[07:17] <Unit193> (Also removed the "Welcome to Ubuntu etherpad")
[07:18] <elfy> yea - it does - that's why it's a draft, I copied stuff from elsewhere
[07:18] <elfy> write what needs to be written please :)
[07:20] <Unit193> And I'll have to see how exactly that boots, or when you can select it.
[07:21] <elfy> should be in the same place as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/image/1504_Netboot%20Install%20%28Desktop%29
[07:21] <elfy> line 32/33 I think
[07:27] <knome> bluesabre, upstream is the ideal situation, and IMO should be the long-term goal. doing it in x-d-s is ok for now
[08:05] <ochosi> elfy: have you noticed any issues with gtk3 apps in utopic so far?
[08:05] <ochosi> i mean do they look and work okay? (e.g. evince or file-roller)
[08:30] <ochosi> ok, answered that question myself, evince, file-roller and the likes are still in their 3.10 versions (i.e. without CSD) so xubuntu by default at least is safe
[08:31] <ochosi> ali1234: ^
[08:32] <ochosi> (obviously this doesn't apply to other distros or xfce in general, which is why i posted it here)
[08:36] <ali1234> yeah
[08:36] <ali1234> check file requester windows though
[08:37] <ali1234> because those always get CSD if it is available
[08:40] <ochosi> file requester? you mean the open-file dialog?
[08:41] <ali1234> yes
[08:41] <ali1234> also pretty much any modal dialog
[08:42]  * ochosi is afraid to look
[08:50] <ochosi> ali1234: they look fine in 14.10 as far as i can tell
[08:52] <ochosi> yup, they patched it out, like i suspected
[09:10] <brainwash> elfy: does your policy file also work with /usr/bin/Thunar (the symlink)?
[09:12] <elfy> nope
[09:15] <brainwash> add it or just ignore the (useless) symlink
[09:15] <brainwash> would anyone run "pkexec Thunar"?
[09:16] <ochosi> elfy: btw, eric told me last night that "if you are trying to do pkexec thunar in the org.xfce.thunar.policy file make sure you have <annotate  key="org.freedesktop.policykit.exec.allow_gui">TRUE</annotate>
[09:16] <ochosi> "
[09:16] <ochosi> background: pkexec won't pass $DISPLAY or $XAUTHORITY by default (and running a full gui program as root is a bad  idea)
[09:17] <slickymasterWork> knome, we could do the pkexec and the new NetworkManager items for the docs, if you want, and afterwards start to work on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster/LinksMergeSandbox stuff
[09:17] <elfy> off to work again
[09:17] <brainwash> and what about an additional script called thunar-pkexec? it basically runs pkexec thunar "$@"
[09:18] <brainwash> like gparted-pkexec
[10:07] <bluesabre> ochosi: got it
[10:17] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you're still looking at the greeter (not like this is a huge issue though), we could try to improve the padding in the shutdown/restart dialogs. the icons look a bit off in gtk3.12
[10:17] <bluesabre> ochosi: we'll do that for 1.9.1
[10:17] <ochosi> ideally they'd be vertically centered: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08192014-121717pm.php
[10:17] <bluesabre> I agree
[10:17] <ochosi> we can also drop the icons though
[10:17] <ochosi> they don't really add much to the meaning of the dialog
[10:17] <knome> slickymasterWork, sure... let's see when we both have time :)
[10:18] <ochosi> lunchtime, bbl
[10:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: want to test something when you get back in trusty?
[10:43] <bluesabre> pull latest lightdm-gtk-greeter, then run
[10:43] <bluesabre> ./autogen.sh; make; make distcheck
[10:43] <bluesabre> let me know if it finishes
[11:17] <bluesabre> skellat: responded.
[11:27] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1193716 is fixed now, but is it worth to tell people that they can request the package to be backported to trusty?
[11:28] <brainwash> I'm not sure how to handle this backport option? do we even provide any backports for trusty as of now?
[11:41] <brainwash> bluesabre: can we close bug 1349056 ?
[12:08] <elfy> ochosi: I really know little about pkexec - if it needs fiddling about with then someone else will have to do so
[12:20] <brainwash> why did someone move all the dupes to bug 1357090 ?!
[12:21] <elfy> ochosi: there's certainly no org.xfce.thunar.policy atm - just one I knocked together which says something else entirely
[12:34] <elfy> bluesabre might want to hold fire if the policies need to be changed
[12:40] <ochosi> brainwash: not sure an entirely new version of xfce4-power-manager will be backported to trusty
[12:40] <ochosi> and anyway, the stable 1.4 hasn't even been released yet
[12:40] <ochosi> but yeah, you can still mark it fixed
[12:41] <brainwash> so we don't do backports?
[12:41] <ochosi> i'm not sure i wanna port back something like the power-manager
[12:41] <ochosi> it theoretically needs new icons too
[12:42] <ochosi> it's not like we only fixed bugs from 1.2 to 1.4
[12:42] <ochosi> people who want it can get it from a PPA i'd say
[12:42] <ochosi> that is, when it's released
[12:42] <brainwash> ok
[12:44] <ochosi> brainwash: also, please don't subscribe me to reports like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1357090
[12:45] <ochosi> i mean seriously, we close a bugreport and people open a new bugreport referencing that bugreport?
[12:45] <brainwash> "Input from the Xubuntu team would be much appreciated here"
[12:45] <brainwash> it's a mess
[12:45] <ochosi> the comments suggest that the two guys have entirely differnt issues
[12:45] <brainwash> and it's targeting xubu default settings
[12:46] <brainwash> so, someone has to stop this madness :)
[12:46] <ochosi> right so do something other than subscribing me
[12:47] <brainwash> should I tell you to write a comment instead?
[12:49] <ochosi> you should write one yourself
[12:49] <ochosi> you know pretty much as much as i do about this issue
[12:49] <brainwash> right, it's fixed
[12:50] <ochosi> it's fixed or a different issue
[12:50] <brainwash> any suggestion for a new target package?
[12:51] <brainwash> apparently it cannot be fixed in xubu default settings
[12:51] <brainwash> because there is nothing to fix
[12:55] <ochosi> not sure, could be anything, from graphics driver to x11
[12:55] <ochosi> anyway, i'm going back to ignoring that bugreport now
[13:05] <ochosi> lderan: since feature freeze is only two days away I'm presuming we're postponing your workitem (GUI for panel-switch)?
[13:08] <knome> if it's almost ready or sth, i could work on the exception paperwork
[13:08] <knome> given that it would be ready soon, that is
[13:09] <ochosi> not sure that lderan has even started
[13:09] <ochosi> i mean it shouldn't be so hard, since the app is already there and does what it should
[14:16] <slickymasterWork>  Language: Finnish	Status: 99,75%	Untranslated: 2 <- https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic
[14:16] <slickymasterWork> knome ^^
[14:17] <knome> bah
[14:17] <knome> it's going to get prodded down anyway, no reason to sweat now ;)
[14:18] <slickymasterWork> lol, I know
[14:18] <knome> besides, i just finished a translation for a wordpress plugin and fixed a lot of stupid mistakes and badly translated strings in it
[14:18] <slickymasterWork> about this morning ping, when you see you have the time to spare on those items ping me, please
[14:18] <knome> i'm not even using it (except for a client), but i got so annoyed by the stupid translations that i thought i'd just fix it ;)
[14:19] <knome> i will
[14:19] <slickymasterWork> a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do
[14:20] <knome> i guess i could have theoretically charged the client for that, but it somehow didn't feel right.. :)
[14:21] <slickymasterWork> :)
[14:29] <mhall119> hey guys, we're having pleia2 on in ~30 for the Community Team Q&A if you can help promote it on Xubuntu's social media accounts: http://ubuntuonair.com/
[14:30] <knome> mhall119, do you have a tweet about it?
[14:32] <mhall119> knome: https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/501735865367150592
[14:32] <knome> ah.
[14:33] <knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/501738674749730816
[14:33] <knome> tweeted.
[14:35] <knome> wondering what those "horrible customizations" are? https://twitter.com/DrTuxWang/status/497611065698820097
[14:35] <knome> and by what means are we "infected by unity libraries" ?
[14:42] <ali1234> lol, unity libraries actually break xubuntu
[14:42] <ali1234> he could be talking about indicators though i suppose
[14:51] <pleia2> getting ready for zee hangout
[15:06] <knome> ali1234, if i'm connecting the dots correctly, he's a person with a ban on #xubuntu...
[15:21] <elfy> ochosi: so - using org..xfce.thunar.policy doesn't work - on a seperate note the policy file I have that does work has that allow_gui in it
[15:23] <ochosi> elfy: i'll ask eric to specifically review our policy files as he seems to know more about all this
[15:24] <elfy> good plan :)
[15:24] <elfy> no good me doing it - I'll just flounder and thrash about for a bit getting no closer to the shore :p
[15:28] <elfy> ochosi: did you see my garbled message this morning re the jog in parole issue?
[15:28] <elfy> or rather - see it and understand :p
[16:02] <ochosi> elfy: if i understood you correctly, you said that the issue in gstreamer1.0 with skipping has been fixed
[16:05] <elfy> good :)
[16:05] <ochosi> any clue yet whether that'll be backported to trusty?
[16:07] <elfy> none - is it a bug in trusty then - because I never noticed that
[16:08] <ochosi> hm, i thought i had seen that
[16:09] <ochosi> can't be sure now though (too tired after a day in the office)
[16:09] <elfy> :)
[16:23] <ochosi> elfy: eric was kind enough to review the policy files and they're ok as is
[16:25] <elfy> awesome :)
[16:25] <elfy> I knew they *worked* - but making sure they're ok for anyone else was something else entirely
[16:49] <ochosi> elfy: yup, in any case, well done! (and thanks)
[16:53] <brainwash> the thunar policy file is missing pkexec in the filename
[16:53] <brainwash> com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy
[16:53] <brainwash> com.ubuntu.thunar.policy
[16:53] <brainwash> just ignore this fact?
[17:07] <slickymasterWork> bbl ->
[19:15] <elfy> screens blanking after 10 minutes for some reason - set to never
[19:16] <ochosi> elfy: 10mins is the default time, you're controlling it via xfpm?
[19:16] <elfy> yea - set to never
[19:16] <elfy> was ok the other day
[19:17] <elfy> xset -q is showing screen saver timeout at 600
[19:17] <ochosi> right
[19:17] <ochosi> then something's not working
[19:17] <elfy> yep
[19:18] <ochosi> maybe a regression, i'll investigate
[19:18] <elfy> ok - basically I have everything set to never - always, hence knowing when something's up :)
[19:19] <ochosi> yup
[19:21] <elfy> ochosi: you got any idea when you'll be setting the next meeting? time mostly I'm interested in
[19:26] <ochosi> i think i wanna do one next week, to be able to review FF and potential FFe
[19:26] <ochosi> so something like tue or wed, 11UTC
[19:27] <ochosi> elfy: can you check the settings in xfce4-settings-editor for xfpm plz?
[19:27] <ochosi> blank-on-ac and blank-on-battery are the values we're interested in
[19:27] <ochosi> (in minutes)
[19:30] <elfy> ochosi: blank-on-ac is 0 and blank-on-battery si not there at all - no battery here, desktop
[19:30] <ochosi> ah ok
[19:30] <ochosi> well good to know, i'll have to dig further though what's broken
[19:30] <ochosi> bbabl
[19:30] <elfy> ok
[23:05] <bluesabre> hey everyone
[23:14] <bluesabre> brainwash: renamed the policy file in lp:xubuntu-default-settings
[23:14] <bluesabre> It'd be cool if the bots added links for lp: addresses