[16:00] <brendand> #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 23 16:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is brendand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
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[16:00] <brendand> Hi everyone, welcome to the weekly Ubuntu Friendly meeting
[16:00] <roadmr> hey!
[16:00] <balloons> hi brendand
[16:01] <brendand> topics for today are:
[16:01] <brendand> Introduction of Ubuntu Friendly community to QA Community co-ordinator (balloons): brendand
[16:01] <brendand> Checkbox 0.12.9 SRU for Oneiric: roadmr
[16:01] <brendand> AOB
[16:01] <brendand> Let's get started
[16:02] <brendand> #topic Introduction of Ubuntu Friendly community to QA Community co-ordinator
[16:02] <brendand> I just want to take a moment to introduce balloons, who is the new Ubuntu Community QA co-ordinator
[16:03] <balloons> hello everyone!
[16:03] <brendand> Since Ubuntu Friendly is a QA community, I imagine we'll be working in close collaboration
[16:04] <brendand> For balloons benefit, Ubuntu Friendly is a hardware validation program where people can test their system and upload the results to a site which scores the system according to how well it runs Ubuntu
[16:04] <balloons> yes, I will be lurking and coming up to speed on the work everyone is doing here, then we'll see where we can collaborate
[16:04] <balloons> I was actually fortunate enough to find and use ubuntu friendly in order to buy a new laptop last month :-)
[16:04] <brendand> balloons - great!
[16:04] <balloons> so it's nice to meet everyone behind the site. It came in handy
[16:05] <brendand> We have this meeting every week, pending there being topics on the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Meetings
[16:05] <brendand> If there are no topics we cancel it
[16:06] <brendand> That's really it, unless balloons wants to ask questions?
[16:06] <brendand> ..
[16:06] <balloons> I'm the entire agenda :-
[16:06] <balloons> sweet!
[16:06] <brendand> balloons, not quite
[16:07] <balloons> lol..
[16:07] <balloons> yes thank you brendand. I don't have any other questions at this time
[16:08] <brendand> balloons - since you're guest of honor today, it's not a problem, but just for future everyone should put their hand up like this: o/ before talking :)
[16:08] <brendand> i should actually have put that at the beginning
[16:08] <roadmr> o/
[16:08] <brendand> roadmr - go
[16:09] <roadmr> a question! balloons, where can we find you if we need to discuss something with you?
[16:09] <roadmr> ..
[16:09] <balloons> o/
[16:09] <brendand> balloons?
[16:10] <balloons> sure you can find me on irc in different channels, but #ubuntu-testing is a great place. In addition my launchpad page has my email address, and your welcome to email me at any time
[16:10] <brendand> balloons - thanks!
[16:10] <balloons> my nick is generally always online so your welcome to leave a message as well
[16:11] <brendand> okay, moving on to the next topic..
[16:11] <brendand> #topic Checkbox 0.12.9 SRU for Oneiric
[16:11] <brendand> for which roadmr has the floor
[16:11] <roadmr> thanks!
[16:11] <roadmr> this is a quick one
[16:12] <roadmr> I noticed Daniel Holbach sent a call for sponsors to help review the packages sponsoring queue
[16:12] <roadmr> this should help get our pending 0.12.9 SRU respin through
[16:12] <roadmr> but if you know any Ubuntu sponsors and are willing to give them a nudge to help checkbox get reviewed and released that'd be great
[16:13] <roadmr> we're like 3 months away from 12.04 and we still haven't released the Oneiric SRU - if we don't get it out soon it'll be almost pointless and no Oneiric users will benefit from those fixes :(
[16:14] <roadmr> the sponsoring queue is here if you're curious: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[16:14] <brendand> o/
[16:14] <roadmr> brendand: go ahead!
[16:15] <brendand> speaking as a checkbox developer, apart from being more careful and not messing up some of the patches is there anything we could have done to make this go faster?
[16:15] <brendand> ..
[16:15] <roadmr> brendand: short of directly asking someone with sponsor superpowers, I don't think so
[16:16] <roadmr> brendand: I'm not sure if we should somehow withdraw the old merge request, that *may* help things but in any case is not documented anywhere
[16:16] <roadmr> that's it really on this topic
[16:16] <brendand> ok
[16:16] <brendand> finishing off
[16:16] <brendand> #topic AOB
[16:16] <brendand> Any other business?
[16:17]  * roadmr has nothing else
[16:18]  * brendand neither
[16:18] <brendand> going
[16:18] <brendand> going
[16:18] <brendand> gone
[16:19] <brendand> #endmeeting
[16:19] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 23 16:19:06 2012 UTC.
[16:19] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-23-16.00.moin.txt
[16:19] <brendand> Thanks all
[16:20] <roadmr> thanks brendand!
[18:00] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:00] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 23 18:00:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:01] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:01] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <mdeslaur> hi!
[18:01] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:01] <Gnostus_> Morning everyone!
[18:01] <jdstrand> Happy new year and welcome to our first meeting this year :)
[18:01] <mdeslaur> \o/
[18:01] <jjohansen> \o
[18:01] <sbeattie> heya
[18:02] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:02] <tyhicks> o/
[18:02] <Gnostus_> :)
[18:02] <jdstrand> Thanks to Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz) for his help on security updates for the community supported lighttpd (LP: #906792), cacti (LP: #906773) and squid3 (LP: #907690) packges on lucid and higher over the last weeks.
[18:02] <jdstrand> Also would like to thank Ante Karamati? (ivoks) for providing a debdiff for lucid for phpmyadmin (LP: #913846)
[18:02] <jdstrand> Thank you to Harald Jenny (harald-a-little-linux-box) for providing a debdiff for hardy for openswan (LP: #917754)
[18:02] <jdstrand> All of your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[18:02] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:03] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:03] <jdstrand> I should have a short week this week, with friday off
[18:03] <jdstrand> I'm on triage
[18:03] <jdstrand> I also have several pending updates that should go out today and tomorrow
[18:04] <jdstrand> I've got a bit more archive admin work to catch up on (did some this weekend, but not caught up yet)
[18:04] <jdstrand> I also have a number of MIR audits I need to process
[18:05] <jdstrand> I'll get to work items as I have time. I have an initial implementation of aa-easyprof, but need to write tests for it, upstream it and get it into the packaging
[18:05] <jdstrand> I think that is it from me
[18:05] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:05] <mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:05] <mdeslaur> I have an embargoed security issue to test
[18:06] <mdeslaur> and I plan on working on a couple of embargoed security bugs
[18:06] <mdeslaur> and have another set of embargoed updates to test too
[18:06] <mdeslaur> and
[18:06] <mdeslaur> embargoed embargoed blah blah embargoed
[18:06] <jjohansen> :)
[18:06] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[18:06] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[18:06] <jdstrand> lots of embargoed stuff lately...
[18:07] <sbeattie> I'm on community this week
[18:07] <sbeattie> I have an openjdk regression update to publish
[18:07] <sbeattie> I'm also working on glibc and openssl updates
[18:08] <sbeattie> I need to poke at the maverick-proposed gdb package I built on lucid for an escalated support issue
[18:08] <jdstrand> sbeattie: that openjdk regression is the one that slangasek and doko were talking about?
[18:08] <sbeattie> Yes
[18:09] <jdstrand> sbeattie: awesome. thanks for that
[18:09]  * jdstrand hugs sbeattie
[18:09] <Gnostus_> :)
[18:09] <sbeattie> I verified that it fixes the specific regression, I just need to generally test and publish
[18:09] <sbeattie> I also need to get back to my apparmor work items, and perhaps help jj get a 2.7.1 release out the door.
[18:10] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
[18:10] <sbeattie> micahg: poke
[18:11] <micahg> I have to finish testing the rapid release migration for Firefox 9 for lucid/maverick and migrate that to updates, another round of chromium upload to proposed this week, patch pilot, and hopefully make some headway on webkit before the next round of mozilla updates come
[18:12] <micahg> tyhicks: tag
[18:12] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:13] <tyhicks> I hope to have a full week, but I am selected as an alternate juror, so we'll see
[18:13] <tyhicks> I have been focusing on upstream eCryptfs kernel bugs and got those patch sets out to the appropriate lists last week for comment
[18:13] <tyhicks> I've got 1 small revision that I need to do and then I want to turn my focus to my update queue
[18:14] <tyhicks> That will likely be the ruby update, first
[18:14] <tyhicks> I think that is it for me
[18:14] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[18:14] <jjohansen> I need to catch up on my USN publications from being sick at the end of last week
[18:14] <jjohansen> and then do some testing on the fix for the /proc/pid/mem issue instead of the revert that we used as the emergency fix
[18:14] <jjohansen> I need to push out the apparmor 2.7.1 release before it gets any bigger (thanks for all the bug fixes)
[18:14] <jjohansen> and I need to finish up on the mount rules for apparmor so people can test them
[18:15] <jjohansen> oh and I should poke at a couple of ecryptfs patches
[18:15] <jjohansen> that is review them
[18:15] <jjohansen> I think that is it from me
[18:16] <tyhicks> jjohansen: I've gotten some review, so don't spend a lot of time on those patches
[18:16] <tyhicks> (but a review would be great :)
[18:16] <jjohansen> tyhicks: oh nice, I haven't gotten as far as even seeing if you had review, just saw them in my in box
[18:17] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:17] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:17] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpack.html
[18:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/torque.html
[18:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/torcs.html
[18:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/open-vm-tools.html
[18:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsdp.html
[18:18] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:18] <micahg> o/
[18:19] <jdstrand> As jjohansen alluded to, people are talking quite a bit about the recent /proc/<pid>/mem handling in the kernel.
[18:19] <jdstrand> We have released an emergency update today (http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1336-1/)
[18:19] <jdstrand> micahg: go ahead
[18:19] <micahg> so, dholbach is looking for speakers for UDW and I thought it might be nice if someone gave a talk on helping with security updates
[18:20] <micahg> the timeslots are 30 minutes each
[18:20] <jdstrand> micahg: when is it?
[18:20] <micahg> Jan 31 - Feb 2 IIRC
[18:20] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable
[18:20] <jdstrand> istr someone from the team doing this once before
[18:21] <jdstrand> does someone have an already prepared presentation they could use?
[18:23] <jdstrand> well, we can discuss that later
[18:23] <jdstrand> micahg: noted
[18:23] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:23] <sbeattie> o/
[18:24] <jdstrand> sbeattie: go ahead
[18:24] <sbeattie> nuclearbob proposed a couple of additional tags for qrt in bug 913818 and bug 913812, and I wanted to get the team's opinions on them
[18:25] <sbeattie> one is to indicate that the packages from one test-script will conflict if installed with the packages from another test script
[18:25] <sbeattie> and the other is to indicate a specific release that a test script is deprecated, because the package has been pulled from the archive or for some other reason.
[18:26] <jdstrand> the latter seems totally fine
[18:26] <jdstrand> the former seems like a maintainence issue. I guess the idea is so that a test environment can be reused?
[18:26] <sbeattie> I guess
[18:27] <jdstrand> QRT-Isolation
[18:27] <jdstrand> hmm
[18:28] <mdeslaur> aren't qrt tests supposed to be run in a clean environment?
[18:28] <jdstrand> ideally, yes
[18:28] <mdeslaur> I don't like QRT-Isolation, but am fine with the other one
[18:28] <jdstrand> that is not enforced, just what we encourage
[18:28] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: I think the thinking is to run as many in a clean environment if they don't conflict/interfere, to reduce the cost of spinning up umpteen vms
[18:28] <micahg> do the packages conflict or the tests?  if it's the packages, we should enforce this at the package manager level if appropriate
[18:29] <mdeslaur> micahg: the packages, and it is already handled fine by the package manager
[18:29] <micahg> ok, good :)
[18:29] <jdstrand> micahg: well, I think a level higher would probably be easier for the framework to handle
[18:29] <sbeattie> micahg: I think the packages enforce it, but e.g. the install-packages script is designed around a single test script situation
[18:30] <mdeslaur> so, QRT-Isolation would just be a tag to say that test needs to be run by itself?
[18:30] <mdeslaur> ie: we don't need to specify conflicts and stuff manually with that tag?
[18:31] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: hold on, lemme look at the bzr branch he submitted
[18:31] <jdstrand> if that is the case, that seems ok
[18:31] <mdeslaur> yeah, if it's just adding the tag, then I'm fine with it
[18:31] <mdeslaur> also, does the QRT-Deprecated tag specify a release?
[18:32] <jdstrand> as an aside, I just realized I am not getting qrt bug mail. I'm guessing our team should probably be getting that. shall I set it up that way?
[18:32] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: sure
[18:33] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: hrm, his bug proposes QRT-Isolation, but the branch submitted uses QRT-Conflicts and specificies individual test scripts.
[18:33] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: yeah, that's what I don't want...as I have no way of maintaining a QRT-Conflicts tag
[18:34] <sbeattie> (branch is at https://code.launchpad.net/~nuclearbob/qa-regression-testing/max-changes ; I've already merged the bits not related to those two bugs)
[18:34] <jdstrand> QRT-Conflicts sounds messy. QRT-Isolation seems ok
[18:34] <jdstrand> my 2 cents
[18:34] <sbeattie> Okay, let's follow up in the bug report
[18:34] <sbeattie> I can take that action
[18:34] <mdeslaur> ah, he's conflicting packages
[18:34] <jdstrand> [ACTION] sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
[18:34] <meetingology> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
[18:34] <mdeslaur> wait a sec, that's not too bad
[18:35] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: well, that's sort of capturing redundant info from the package manager
[18:36] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: yeah
[18:36] <jdstrand> and surely different releases will have different conflicts
[18:36] <sbeattie> anyway, I think we've flogged this enough and can move on
[18:36] <mdeslaur> ok
[18:37] <jdstrand> any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:38] <mdeslaur> nope!
[18:38] <mdeslaur> :)
[18:38] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
[18:38] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 23 18:38:42 2012 UTC.
[18:38] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-23-18.00.moin.txt
[18:38] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[18:38] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
[18:38] <tyhicks> thanks jdstrand
[18:38] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[20:58] <cjwatson> soren: hi - you're chairing this week, right?
[21:00]  * stgraber waves
[21:01] <kees> o/
[21:03] <cjwatson> paging emergency holographic chair?
[21:03] <cjwatson> is it just the three of us this week?  I didn't see any apologies on the list
[21:04] <stgraber> just poked mdz and pitti in -devel
[21:06]  * kees should apologize for continuing to not make time for the brainstorm review. :P I'll try harder.
[21:06]  * cjwatson can hardly criticise given his performance last time
[21:06] <cjwatson> I should warn that mdz gets more sarcastic the more time passes ;-)
[21:07] <stgraber> hmm, apparently pinging them in -devel didn't help, so indeed looks like it's just the three of us
[21:07] <mdz> sorry I'm late
[21:07] <cjwatson> we apparently have no chair yet
[21:08] <cjwatson> I guess I can emergency chair
[21:08]  * kees doesn't have soren's phone # any more
[21:08] <stgraber> I can do it to, whatever you prefer
[21:08] <cjwatson> I wouldn't object - I think you're next in rotation anyway
[21:08] <kees> alpha-skip to stgraber pleases my OCD :)
[21:08] <stgraber> yep
[21:09] <stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu Technical Board meeting
[21:09] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 23 21:09:00 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[21:09] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:09] <stgraber> #topic Action review
[21:09] <stgraber> kees: so keeping "kees to perform brainstorm review" for an extra two weeks then? :)
[21:09] <kees> yes please. *sheepish*
[21:10] <stgraber> #topic Harmonizing DMB membership expiring dates (tumbleweed)
[21:10] <stgraber> tumbleweed: around?
[21:10] <tumbleweed> hi, yes
[21:10] <stgraber> hi!
[21:10] <tumbleweed> it looks like you've mostly covered this on the list
[21:10]  * stgraber looks at ML logs
[21:10] <tumbleweed> we just wanted to reduce the number of elections we need to do
[21:10] <cjwatson> Mark acked this and I don't really see a reason to object personally
[21:11] <stgraber> ok, I'll implement the change then
[21:11] <tumbleweed> thanks, that was easy :)
[21:11] <cjwatson> so just extend everything to 13 Feb
[21:11] <cjwatson> ?
[21:12] <cjwatson> (with various years)
[21:12] <tumbleweed> that'd be great
[21:12] <cjwatson> then it settles down to a nice rotation of four each year
[21:13] <tumbleweed> except that laney just extended a year, so it'll be 3 and 5
[21:13] <stgraber> #action stgraber to harmonize the DMB expiring dates  (extend bdrung to 2013-02-13 and micah, tumbleweed and then the two new members to 2014-02-13)
[21:13] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to harmonize the DMB expiring dates  (extend bdrung to 2013-02-13 and micah, tumbleweed and then the two new members to 2014-02-13)
[21:13] <tumbleweed> but I'm sure we'll have an early retirement or something
[21:13] <stgraber> does that sound like what we want^
[21:13] <cjwatson> that's ok by me
[21:13] <micahg> stgraber: that should be 1 new member, I still need to file a mail to the TB ML about extending laney as well
[21:14] <stgraber> micahg: oh, right
[21:15] <Laney> anyone heard anything from persia yet?
[21:15] <stgraber> ok, I quickly did it on LP: https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members
[21:16] <cjwatson> not I
[21:17] <stgraber> haven't heard anything either. Wondering if we should deactivate his membership from the team to make things clearer, especially now that I just extended tumbleweed's term.
[21:18] <Laney> I think that would be a good thing to do: ask him to check in with the TB on his return
[21:18]  * kees nods
[21:18] <stgraber> is everyone happy with that?
[21:19] <cjwatson> it seems cognate with what we do for developers who go missing
[21:19] <micahg> not happy, but understandable
[21:19] <cjwatson> I think he will understand
[21:19] <micahg> yes, indeed
[21:19] <tumbleweed> if you could also squeeze in a decision on Laney extending his membership back to 2 years, it'd save us having to persuade him to nominate himself for re-election
[21:19] <stgraber> yeah, I'm writting a "de-activation" message on LP and will e-mail him as well
[21:19] <Laney> I thought the feeling was that it wasn't needed (as the original date was an error), but ymmv
[21:20] <cjwatson> "back to 2 years"?  did you reduce it at some point?
[21:20] <Laney> It was erroneously added as 1 year initially
[21:20] <Laney> s/It/I/
[21:20] <cjwatson> oh, fixing errors shouldn't require a TB vote surely
[21:20]  * micahg is sending the TB E-Mail momentarily for records reasons
[21:21] <tumbleweed> micahg: thanks
[21:21] <stgraber> Laney: right, that was an old mistake you asked us not to fix initialy?
[21:21] <Laney> I wanted to delay deciding due to previous events
[21:22]  * Laney wonders how long that hob has been on and unlit for
[21:22] <micahg> FTR, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001171.html
[21:23] <cjwatson> it's a bug if TB meetings blow up your kitchen
[21:24] <stgraber> ok, bumped Laney's "expiry" to 2013-02-13 and de-activated Emmet's membership
[21:24] <stgraber> I think that's it for the DMB?
[21:24] <tumbleweed> yes, thanks
[21:25] <stgraber> perfect
[21:25] <Laney> cheers all
[21:25] <stgraber> #topic Adjustment to backports upload policy (cjwatson)
[21:25] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001166.html
[21:25] <cjwatson> OK, so as I noted in the mail, I *think* this is an editorial change, but broder seemed to have a different reading so I wanted to make sure I was correct
[21:26]  * cjwatson gives people a bit to read
[21:27]  * micahg doesn't think uploading to -updates or -security directly should be allowed
[21:27] <cjwatson> I don't think I was suggesting that as such
[21:28] <micahg> no, but I think it might be able to be inferred :)
[21:28] <cjwatson> ubuntu-security is currently a celebrity though and I think that ought to eventually be fixed
[21:28] <kees> Yeah, I think whitelist would be better than blacklist here. "Uploads to all pockets: ~ubuntu-core-dev for all components"
[21:28] <kees> i.e. not -updates and -security
[21:28] <cjwatson> anyway, none of this supersedes the general prohibitions on uploading to certain pockets
[21:28] <kees> just a language change, I'm fine with the intent
[21:28] <cjwatson> I can clarify that explicitly in the LP bug if needed
[21:28] <kees> right, cool.
[21:29] <mdz> I'm not sure I follow
[21:29] <mdz> are you saying that you want the policy to remain the same despite the underlying technical restrictions changing?
[21:29] <cjwatson> mostly I just wanted to make sure that the TB hadn't intended to prohibit -backporters from uploading to backports; that's what Evan writes in his report of the relevant meeting, but it contradicts my memory of my intent
[21:29] <cjwatson> no
[21:29] <cjwatson> s/my intent/our intent/
[21:30] <cjwatson> in general, I want to make it easier for ubuntu-backporters to do things that currently only ubuntu-archive / ubuntu-core-dev (variously) can do
[21:31] <cjwatson> where it pertains to the backports pocket
[21:31] <mdz> makes sense
[21:31] <stgraber> having the backport team be able to manage their pocket and upload to any component of it sounds good to me.
[21:32] <Laney> the bug is more general because AFAICT that is how the feature in LP should be. It'll be a separate decision for the TB to decide which delegations to grant.
[21:32] <cjwatson> specifically, relative to now, I want them to be able to manage queues for the backports pocket (agreed in last meeting, AFAIK uncontroversial), and upload to backports regardless of component (I thought we agreed this in the last meeting but it wasn't in the write-up, so I'm suggesting we make it explicit if everyone agrees)
[21:33] <mdz> I don't remember that discussion...at the 9 Jan meeting?
[21:33] <cjwatson> the write-up is written in terms of closing an anomaly which we believed to exist but which turned out not to exist, and therefore the write-up is confusing
[21:33] <cjwatson> at the meeting that coincided with UDS
[21:33] <mdz> oh, so October
[21:33] <mdz> I think I missed that meeting
[21:33] <mdz> which explains why I'm confused
[21:34] <mdz> I abstain
[21:34] <cjwatson> November, I think - hunting logs
[21:34] <cjwatson> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[21:35] <cjwatson> you were present
[21:35] <cjwatson> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t18:52 - ah, it was incomplete and finished next meeting
[21:36] <cjwatson> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/17/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t18:12
[21:36] <mdz> yes, I believe I missed 11/28
[21:36] <mdz> anyway, I don't want to hold things up
[21:36] <stgraber> so basically the question is: do we agree that members of the backport team can upload to the backport pocket, whatever the component and without any relation to their upload rights to the release pocket?
[21:37] <stgraber> anyway, that's a +1 for me
[21:37] <mdz> +0, I'll support the consensus
[21:38] <cjwatson> stgraber: yes.  I'm sorry that this seems to require set theory notation to express clearly :-)
[21:39] <stgraber> kees: ?
[21:39] <cjwatson> my position is basically that the backports team has by this point a long track record of responsibility and we should let them get on with it :)
[21:39] <cjwatson> so +1 in case that isn't obvious
[21:43] <stgraber> hmm, looks like we lost kees, quickly scanning the mailing-list for things we might have missed
[21:43] <kees> +1
[21:43] <stgraber> kees: thanks
[21:44] <stgraber> #agreed Backport team is allowed to upload to the backport pocket in any of its components whatever the person's upload rights to the main archive are
[21:44] <stgraber> #topic tmpfs for /tmp
[21:45] <stgraber> we received: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001167.html
[21:46] <stgraber> is that something we want to discuss now or should discuss by e-mail/bug report?
[21:46] <kees> I've been against a tmpfs /tmp because it doesn't seem to really solve anything.
[21:46] <stgraber> I vaguely remember us (or maybe another distro, I said vaguely ...) mounting /tmp as tmpfs if / was full or close to being full but can't find any trace of that on my system, so maybe it disappeared (or I was just dreaming)
[21:47] <cjwatson> I am nervous about that mail because it is definitely missing some things; the installer's partitioning rules would certainly need to be adjusted.
[21:47]  * soren stubmles in
[21:47] <stgraber> as the guy who runs hundreds of containers on his machines, I'm definitely against tmpfs by default as it'd basically kill my system
[21:47] <kees> stgraber: yeah, it to try to avoid apt/dpkg pain in the face of a full fs.
[21:47] <soren> Gosh, I'm so sorry I (pretty much) missed this meeting!
[21:47] <kees> no idea where that went
[21:47] <cjwatson> stgraber: it used to exist in Ubuntu; Ian added t, I think
[21:47] <cjwatson> *it
[21:47] <cjwatson> "mountoverflowtmp" or some such?
[21:48] <cjwatson> but I think that's mostly sideways to psusi's proposal
[21:48] <stgraber> cjwatson: yeah, looks like we might have lost it with the switch to mountall?
[21:48] <stgraber> (I quickly scanned /etc and mountall's code for anything related to tmpfs and couldn't find a trace of it)
[21:49] <cjwatson> the initscripts changelog says it was replaced by an upstart job
[21:49] <stgraber> which apparently got dropped (or my grepping skills disappeared recently)
[21:49] <cjwatson> I'm kind of -0.5 on this because I don't feel the system performs well in some cases when tmpfses fill up
[21:49] <cjwatson> but I don't have a clear written-up rationale
[21:50] <cjwatson> some people with particular system use models seem to prefer it and I certainly think it should be a supported model
[21:50] <stgraber> I know some of my systems (most?) would start crashing if they were using tmpfs (obviously depending on what gets written to /tmp)
[21:50] <micahg> also, /run is already a tmpfs
[21:51] <cjwatson> but I find myself unable to support it as the default
[21:51] <stgraber> my understanding is that it's essentially a one line change in /lib/init/fstab (or through /etc/fstab) to change the fstype from "none" to "tmpfs"
[21:51] <cjwatson> micahg: right, but the bug is specifically asking for /tmp, not just for tmpfses to exist
[21:51] <micahg> right, I was just pointing out the decreasing need for such a thing as stuff is being migrated to /run
[21:52] <stgraber> micahg: yeah, so far I haven't seen a badly written piece of software fill up my /run though I definitely did for /tmp, /run is pretty new, I'm sure it'll come :)
[21:52] <cjwatson> micahg: I'm not sure I agree, but in any case I think it's moot :)
[21:52] <micahg> oh, sorry for the noise then :)(
[21:52] <cjwatson> stgraber: lines in /etc/fstab for a given mount point will override /lib/init/fstab - people shouldn't ever need to change the latter
[21:53] <cjwatson> I think this would benefit from e-mail discussion
[21:54] <stgraber> agreed, then we can update the bug based on the outcome (and get rid of a pretty old bug potentially)
[21:54] <stgraber> #topic Chair for next meeting
[21:54] <stgraber> soren: ^
[21:54] <soren> I guess that will be me :)
[21:54] <stgraber> perfect
[21:54] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[21:55] <soren> I hope I don't triggers kees's OCD too hard :)
[21:55] <kees> heheh
[21:55] <stgraber> we can just move backward through the list of that helps kees' ocd :)
[21:55] <cjwatson> odc
[21:56] <kees> no need. :)
[21:56] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[21:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 23 21:56:32 2012 UTC.
[21:56] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-23-21.09.moin.txt
[21:56] <stgraber> thanks everyon!
[21:56] <stgraber> *everyone
[21:56] <soren> "I have CDO. It's just like OCD, but with the letters in alphabetical order, like they're supposed to be."
[21:56] <stgraber> soren: ;)
[21:57] <kees> thanks stgraber!
[21:57] <soren> stgraber: Yeah, tahnks for filling in.
[22:01] <stgraber> soren: np


[01:47] <bschaefer> \
[01:47] <bschaefer> \
[01:47] <bschaefer> \
[01:47] <bschaefer> ops..
[02:32]  * mhall119 wonders how davidcalle calculated the optimal number of crashes for a scope
[02:35] <Daekdroom> Is there such number?
[08:56] <mhr3> seb128, you went over your 5-a-day limit today :P
[08:56] <seb128> mhr3, I'm doing 50 a day it seems like :p
[08:57] <mhr3> seb128, i guess you misread your own mail :)
[08:57] <seb128> hehe
[08:58] <seb128> mhr3, what about you? it seems like you failed to do your 5 yesterday, disappointing :p
[08:59] <mhr3> seb128, you distracted me with your no-the-album-art-is-still-not-visible attitude :P
[09:00] <seb128> mhr3, it's still not working!
[09:00] <seb128> mhr3, but soon I will not be able to tell
[09:00] <mhr3> seb128, i would be better if rb didn't use five different plugins to fetch the art
[09:00] <mhr3> it would*
[09:00] <seb128> you made me "use" most of my albums which didn't have their artwork yet ;-)
[09:01] <mhr3> seb128, which of the cover art plugins do you have enabled?
[09:01] <seb128> mhr3, what a weird question
[09:01] <seb128> mhr3, whatever comes with rb, I didn't change those
[09:01] <didrocks> what is weird? :)
[09:01] <mhr3> what a weird player rb is :)
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, <mhr3> seb128, which of the cover art plugins do you have enabled?
[09:01] <mhr3> brb.. standup
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, it's also weird to not see you online :p
[09:02] <didrocks> I confirm, it's a weird question :p
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: heh, was looking for rick at the hotel
[09:02] <seb128> oh, ok
[09:02] <seb128> did you find him? ;-)
[09:02] <didrocks> yeah, he's next to me right now :)
[09:03] <seb128> good
[14:02] <malin> How do I add downloads to the right, as on this page? https://launchpad.net/hello-unity
[14:03] <malin> in my project: https://launchpad.net/unity-buss it say: "unity-buss does not have any download files registered with Launchpad.", but I cannot see any place to add download files :)
[14:27] <mhall119> yay! Got sound menu support working in hello-unity
[14:28] <davmor2> mhall119: congratulations dude
[14:35] <malin> mhall119: cool
[14:35] <malin> mhall119: how did you add hello-unity downloads to this page? https://launchpad.net/hello-unity ? I think about the two green links/buttons to the right
[14:37] <mhall119> malin: you have to create a release, then you can upload files for it
[14:37] <malin> ah
[14:38] <malin> thanx
[14:38] <malin> I will try
[14:38] <malin> Is it in trunk I do it?
[14:39] <malin> found something called: appoint release manager
[14:44] <malin> looks like it needs to be published to a ubuntu release first
[14:45] <malin> so I have to be patient and wait for it to be reviewed
[14:47] <malin> or maybe the: make release is the correct :)
[14:54] <malin> made it
[17:00] <mick0> malin: Any plans of making the unity-buss lens more general? The idea is great! I'd love to have the local public transport schedule accesable though a lens.
[18:08] <lamalex> bschaefer, did you get anywhere with ibus tests yesterday?
[18:10] <bschaefer> lamalex, I didn,t, I got focused on some crashes
[18:10] <bschaefer> didn't*
[18:10] <bschaefer> Ill be working on that today though!
[18:11] <lamalex> aye aye
[18:11] <lamalex> just looking down my list :)
[18:11] <bschaefer> haha, Im still having problems reproducing it like in jenkins
[18:11] <bschaefer> lamalex, also did you have that video?
[18:11] <bschaefer> I would like to see what it is doing
[18:12] <lamalex> bschaefer, ill get the most recent for you
[18:14] <bschaefer> lamalex, thanks!
[18:14] <lamalex> not typing at all
[18:14] <lamalex> still want it?
[18:16] <bschaefer> naw
[18:17] <bschaefer> if that is what it is doing
[18:17] <bschaefer> I've ran into that before
[18:17] <bschaefer> hmm, also what was the ppa again?
[18:17] <bschaefer> ill download and install that to see if that could be the problem
[18:20] <lamalex> unity-team/staging
[18:24] <bschaefer> thanks!
[20:07] <bschaefer> lamalex, hmm using a VM with all the staging ppa all my ibus test pass :(
[20:07] <bschaefer> lamalex, would it be possible to add some debugging statements into jenkins?
[20:08] <lamalex> by getting it into trunk
[20:08] <bschaefer> hmm ok, let me see where I could add those into unity, as I should be able to push it into the logger
[20:17] <malin> mick0: I have an idea of making a general transport lens.
[20:17] <malin> In fact I have a lot of ideas
[20:17] <malin> Think about it
[20:17] <malin> when you install ubuntu you often choose your region or where you are
[20:18] <malin> then you should get suggestions for locally pograms
[20:19] <bschaefer> lamalex, also a random question...the machine these ibus ap test run on; when was the last time it was restarted?
[20:19] <malin> f.eks transport scopes for your hometown or a scope in a general wheather-lens with local wheter info. etc etc
[20:20] <bschaefer> lamalex, i've ran into something where ibus-daemon is still running but just quit working...but I havn't ran into in a while
[20:32] <malin> mick0: all I have to figure out is how to add a scope to a lens
[20:36] <nik90> malin, this is a great idea
[20:37] <malin> nik90: thanx
[20:37] <nik90> malin: can you suggest this in the ayatana mailing team? We could start a discussion with other unity developers
[20:37] <malin> I am registering the transport-lens project now, so can I work on it when I have time
[20:37] <malin> nik90: sure
[20:38] <malin> hm.. not sure if I am in that mailinglist, so I think I have to join it :)
[20:42] <malin> nik90: do you have a link to the mailinglist?
[22:44] <bschaefer> thomi, ping...
[22:44] <bschaefer> im not able to reproduce all those ibus ap test failing :(
[22:45] <bschaefer> but after looking at the log for sometime I don't think the problem is im_active not getting reset
[22:45] <bschaefer> it just isn't getting set period, soo ctrl+space is failing to activate ibus, which is very odd


[09:16] <_mup_> Bug #865163 was filed: default-series option has surprising behaviour <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865163 >
[12:46] <niemeyer> Good mornings!
[12:56] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: hiya!
[13:00] <fwereade> heya niemeyer
[13:02] <niemeyer> Hey folks!
[13:03]  * niemeyer grabs coffee before engaging into juju awesomeness
[13:17] <hazmat> g'morning
[13:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yo
[13:32] <hazmat> niemeyer, greeting
[13:33] <niemeyer> hazmat: Alan seemed pleasantly surprised with juju
[13:34] <hazmat> niemeyer, awesome!
[13:34] <hazmat> niemeyer,  they've been setting up a saas system with plone.. ploud.. i'm glad you guys had a chance to talk
[13:35] <niemeyer> hazmat: Spent good part of Saturday's afternoon hacking a django "platform" charm with Sidnei.. very cool stuff
[13:35] <hazmat> niemeyer, sweet!
[13:35] <niemeyer> hazmat: and he was around for part of it
[13:35] <hazmat> niemeyer, did you guys use bash? or python?
[13:36] <niemeyer> hazmat: Bash for the low level charm integration.. but it's a surprisingly small amount of code
[13:36] <niemeyer> hazmat: Checks the branch out from Launchpad, and puts it live
[13:36] <hazmat> niemeyer, indeed, checking out revision control is the only main thing i used python for
[13:36] <hazmat> on a wsgi charm
[13:37] <hazmat> niemeyer, virtualenv for requirements.. but figuring out the db dependency from config was a little odd
[13:37] <hazmat> made me want runtime dependency declarations
[13:37] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ah, interesting.. we didn't go so far
[13:38] <niemeyer> hazmat: We were thinking about a python-level or app-level hook for installing dependencies
[13:38] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. as it is right now i've got optional relations for lots of things, and i just populate a conf file with the properties for the app
[13:38] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ah, sweet!
[13:38] <hazmat> using gunicorn for serving up the app ( easy multi-process using a pre-fork model)
[13:38] <niemeyer> hazmat: We were going in the direction of an nginx server
[13:40] <hazmat> niemeyer, nginx is a good front end, but i still expect that to be a separate unit.. within a unit the socket bind, fork, saves an extra hop
[13:40] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hadn't heard of gunicorn before
[13:40] <hazmat> which is needed for the frontend anyways
[13:41] <hazmat> niemeyer, its a nice front end to wsgi apps supports several options.. gevent, pre-fork workers, etc.
[13:41] <niemeyer> hazmat: Nice, we should talk to sidnei about this
[13:44] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good
[14:22] <hazmat> niemeyer, just a heads up... i'm going to be working on solving transient zk disconnect issues and upstartifying things this week
[14:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: Good timing.. on a call with fwereade and we were just talking about that :-)
[14:23] <hazmat> fwereade, niemeyer, cool, how's the remote repo working coming?
[14:24] <niemeyer> hazmat: Wanna join?
[14:24] <hazmat> niemeyer, definitely
[14:24] <niemeyer> hazmat: sent
[14:58] <robbiew> niemeyer: fyi, I updated the call to use my conference number
[14:58] <robbiew><PHONE_NUMBER>
[15:01] <niemeyer> robbiew: Joining
[16:05] <niemeyer> Lunch time!
[16:05] <niemeyer> brb
[16:07] <robbiew> FYI -> https://juju.ubuntu.com/Testing
[16:07] <robbiew> :)
[16:11] <SpamapS> cool
[16:32] <SpamapS> http://summit.openstack.org/sessions/view/103
[16:32] <SpamapS> lol.. look at the example they use for server templates. ;)
[16:32] <SpamapS> "A server template could be used, for example, to build a server containing a pre-installed WordPress system and database"
[16:50] <niemeyer> robbiew: Wow!
[16:50] <niemeyer> robbiew: Integrates very neatly
[16:51]  * robbiew is so happy IS added the rawhtml option to our wiki ;)
[16:53] <niemeyer> robbiew: +1 :)
[16:53] <m_3> robbiew: rawhtml... yay
[17:00]  * rogpeppe is off. see ya tomorrow.
[17:09] <robbiew> rogpeppe: cya
[17:16] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Cheers! On a call now, but will review your branches before you're back :)
[17:35] <_mup_> Bug #865550 was filed: Provide automation for including apparmor profiles in charms <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865550 >
[18:02] <niemeyer> Four hours of meetings should be good enough for a Monday
[18:02]  * niemeyer tries to actually review some code now
[19:15] <_mup_> juju/unit-info-cli r423 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:15] <_mup_> copy host resolv.conf to container before attempting any resolutions, in the customize chroot, this was being masked by the local package cache
[19:18]  * hazmat heads out to doctor appt, bbiab
[19:26] <niemeyer> hazmat: Good luck there! :)
[19:26] <niemeyer> hazmat: When you're back, would like to ping you on a minor
[19:32] <fwereade> niemeyer: ping
[19:32] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yo
[19:32] <fwereade> thanks for the review
[19:32] <fwereade> niemeyer: one I'm about to address and merge, one addressed in a followup, one I intend to address in a followup
[19:33] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cool
[19:33] <niemeyer> fwereade: Branches seem to be missing pre-reqs, btw
[19:33] <fwereade> really? crap, let me check
[19:33] <niemeyer> fwereade: The require-default-series one is.. hmm.. interesting
[19:33] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, it's fine as I can imagine what the stack is
[19:34] <niemeyer> fwereade: But it's good to have that in place in general
[19:34] <fwereade> niemeyer: consider that one speculative, I wasn't sure you'd like it but itseemed better to implement while you were away than to moon around wondering
[19:34] <fwereade> niemeyer: definitely
[19:35] <niemeyer> fwereade: It's good speculation.. it seemed wrong and I was tempted to ask for more information
[19:35] <fwereade> niemeyer: yeah, looks like I've missed at least one :( sorry
[19:35] <niemeyer> fwereade: But pondering on the problem for a while, you have a point
[19:35] <fwereade> niemeyer: it's clint's point really :)
[19:36] <niemeyer> fwereade: _Today_, detecting the revision will yield surprising results more often than it will be useful
[19:36] <niemeyer> fwereade: Well, SpamapS has a point then :-)
[19:36] <fwereade> niemeyer: detecting the series, right?
[19:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, sorry
[19:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: Detecting is really the long term solution
[19:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: But, there are two points that make it suboptimal:
[19:37] <niemeyer> 1) There's a single series that work today
[19:38] <niemeyer> 2) We do auto-updating of the environment config, which can yield surprising results
[19:39] <fwereade> niemeyer: 3) we want people to be able to run juju from non-ubuntu systems
[19:40] <fwereade> niemeyer: I do feel it would be nice to be smarter about it, but I think I've convinced myself at least that Least Surprise is the right principle to follow at this point
[19:40] <fwereade> niemeyer: the fact that auto-updating can *still* break this solution is (I think) a point against auto-updating, rather than against the solution
[19:41] <niemeyer> fwereade: 3) is kind of irrelevant in this specific case
[19:42] <fwereade> niemeyer: feels somewhat relevant to the long-term case, but I don't really feel that specific point is going to be a fruitful avenue of discussion right now ;)
[19:42] <niemeyer> fwereade: The fact someone wants to be able to work in environment B isn't good reasoning for not doing something in environment A which is actually more common right now
[19:43] <fwereade> niemeyer: granted
[19:43] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, least surprise is good too
[19:43] <niemeyer> fwereade: and it's actually exactly what we were going at with the original approach, though
[19:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: If you're siting on a machine running Natty, doing things remotely with Natty is expected
[19:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: The problem, and the reason why it has my sympathy, are points 1) and 2) above
[19:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: For 1), natty doesn't exist
[19:44] <niemeyer> (for juju)
[19:44] <fwereade> niemeyer: well, indeed :)
[19:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: re. 2), auto-updating means we'd get different behavior on an _existing_ environment post-bootstrap
[19:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: Which is quite awkward
[19:45] <fwereade> niemeyer: yep
[19:47] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'm happy to move forward with the simplistic way for now..
[19:47] <niemeyer> fwereade: We'll have to change this once there are other releases, but we have some time to think
[19:47] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'll just check it up with hazmat
[19:47] <fwereade> niemeyer: cool -- I agree it's not perfect, but it feels like a sensible short-term solution
[19:48] <niemeyer> fwereade: +1
[19:48] <niemeyer> fwereade: Awesome.. just reviewing docs, but I think we're settled as far as our conversation goes
[19:48] <niemeyer> fwereade: We need the auto-revision bumping now, and the fake testing server
[19:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: Probably in that order, so that we can get things rolling into the Ubuntu front while we sort out the testing and all
[19:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: WDYT?
[19:53] <fwereade> yep, sounds good to me
[19:55] <fwereade> niemeyer, in case you didn't see, sounds good to me
[19:55] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cool!
[19:55] <niemeyer> fwereade: Thanks for checking out
[19:56] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'll finish reviewing the doc branch, but we're in sync I think
[19:56] <fwereade> niemeyer: cool
[19:56] <fwereade> niemeyer: there will be another doc tweak at some stage, to fix up the draft I mention
[19:56] <fwereade> niemeyer: but, well, it is a draft :)
[19:57] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, cool :-)
[20:16] <Aram> hello.
[20:33] <niemeyer> Aram: Hey!
[20:50] <niemeyer> hazmat: Can you please check out this when you have a moment: https://code.launchpad.net/~fwereade/juju/require-default-series/+merge/77878
[20:50] <niemeyer> I'm going to step out for some exercising and be back later today
[20:53] <fwereade> niemeyer: (I've assumed it was; the other place is the new-user tutorial, where every extra character counts, IMO)
[20:59] <fwereade> niemeyer: (and now I've convinced myself I'm wrong: the full charm url will show up in status, and it'll be clearer that the two places reference the same thing if they look like the same thing)
[22:13]  * hazmat checks out branch
[23:28] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'm here, but you're probably not.. :p
[23:33] <SpamapS> niemeyer: so, how is the eureka push going?
[23:33] <SpamapS> I've been distracted with other Ubuntu stuff all day
[23:34] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Very well.. the only critical bit is the client-side store work
[23:34] <niemeyer> SpamapS: fwereade's branches are in pretty good shape, though.. we'll probably have everything in by tomorrow, or wednesday the latest
[23:35] <niemeyer> SpamapS: fwereade will then work on a fake server the rest of the week so we can be sure that the store support _actually_ works
[23:35] <niemeyer> SpamapS: and then finish the real store in the next couple of weeks
[23:36] <SpamapS> We can always release an updated client if the API has to change
[23:37] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That's cool, but at least the that work we're finishing tomorrow/wednesday should really be in
[23:38] <niemeyer> Aram: ping
[23:39] <Aram> niemeyer: pong.
[23:39] <niemeyer> Aram: Hey!
[23:40] <SpamapS> niemeyer: indeed, its a bit more of an abuse of the process to SRU a whole new feature in than it is to just SRU a new API version in. :)
[23:40] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, and also because my _hope_ is that we'll have zero incompatible changes in the 11.10=>12.04 time frame
[23:41] <SpamapS> +1 from me on that
[23:41] <niemeyer> SpamapS: So would really like to have the store work now, so that if we have to SRU changes they use the same user interface
[23:42] <SpamapS> would go a long way to building up user support if they're able to smoothly transition to the PPA and/or 12.04 without having to do anything to their charms/running envs/etc.
[23:42] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Exactly
[23:42] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That's my hope really
[23:42] <SpamapS> Seems like the last of the big structural local storage changes are in with juju-origin and the local charm repository organization.
[23:43] <niemeyer> SpamapS: juju-origin is kind of minor in that regard
[23:43] <SpamapS> I do think we'll have to see some backflips in code as the ZK topology changes..
[23:43] <niemeyer> SpamapS: the charm url user interface is the big deal
[23:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: ping
[23:44] <niemeyer> SpamapS: another bit we have to sort out is being able to tag formulas as incompatible with a given revision in a nice way
[23:45] <niemeyer> SpamapS: But that seems fine for an SRU
[23:45] <SpamapS> yeah
[23:45] <SpamapS> thats another one where it fits nicely the SRU desire to make sure interoperability with remote services is maintained
[23:46] <niemeyer> Right
[23:46] <hazmat> niemeyer, pong
[23:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yo!
[23:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: How're things going there?  Still churning, or more like heading to a beer? :)
[23:48] <hazmat> niemeyer, really hoping to have the unit get cli and addresses in relations by default in for oneiric
[23:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: Neat
[23:48] <hazmat> niemeyer, both in the queue
[23:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: I'll check that out today still
[23:48] <SpamapS> hazmat: that would be *saweet*
[23:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: Awesome
[23:49] <hazmat> niemeyer, i'm still running into occasional issues with the local provider stuff, think it might be because i switch local networks so often
[23:49] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hmm
[23:49] <hazmat> not sure, still also seeing an occasional lxc problem when i try to ssh into a machine
[23:49] <hazmat> i committed a fix for the network issue, it always manifests as xmlrpc.launchpad.net temp failure in resolution
[23:49] <SpamapS> I'll gladly do a mass bug file/fix in the charm repo once that is done, as that gives us much better reliability in non-ec2 environments
[23:49] <hazmat> not sure if its a good fix though
[23:50] <hazmat> works for me atm though
[23:50] <hazmat> pty allocation error re lxc problem
[23:50] <hazmat> only a reboot fixes it once it shows up
[23:50] <hazmat> niemeyer, having a look over fwereade's branches atm, still churning
[23:50] <hazmat> and that's not mutually exclusive to a beer ;-)
[23:50] <hazmat> tdd ftw ;-)
[23:51] <hazmat> saw the new db pkg for go
[23:51] <hazmat> elmo was at the surge conference saw him the last day we chatted a bit
[23:51] <niemeyer> hazmat: :-)
[23:52] <niemeyer> hazmat: On that last branch, check-latest-formulas, I think we need something like
[23:52] <niemeyer>  /charm-info?charms=<urls>
[23:52] <niemeyer> So that we can get metadata + bundle-sha256 at once
[23:52] <niemeyer> for all the charms
[23:53] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good, as we learned rest purisms fails for efficiency
[23:53] <niemeyer> Yeah
[23:53] <niemeyer> It feels bad to do _3_ requests per charm download


[06:56] <codemagician> When I use apt-get upgrade to run PHP with Ubuntu Server 12.04.5 LTS precise I get PHP Version 5.3.10-1ubuntu3.15  The PHP community show that PHP 5.4.34 is the next latest stable version up, followed by 5.5.18 and 5.6.2  Will there likely be an update that takes the PHP version upwards?  If not, what's the best practice for keeping on a stable PHP release with this OS?
[07:24] <DenBeiren> anyone around to help troubleshoot a samba issue?
[08:36] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:40] <DenBeiren> good morning
[08:41] <lordievader> Hey DenBeiren, how are you?
[08:41] <DenBeiren> gd gd
[08:41] <DenBeiren> struggeling with samba :-)
[08:41] <lordievader> Ugh, samba ;)
[08:42] <DenBeiren> http://pastie.org/9716044
[08:42] <DenBeiren> does this seem correct to you?
[08:44] <lordievader> Line wrap?
[08:47] <DenBeiren> ?
[08:49] <DenBeiren> i don't un-derstand
[08:51] <lordievader> "ever$
[08:51] <DenBeiren> ah
[08:51] <lordievader> If it is actually like the paste it's broken ;)
[08:54] <DenBeiren> http://pastie.org/9716156
[08:54] <DenBeiren> better?
[08:54] <DenBeiren> the problem is that users who make a file can save it and see it,.. other users can't open the file
[08:56] <lordievader> That make sense. Check the file permissions, they are likely $USER:$USER.
[08:56] <DenBeiren> should be user:group correct
[08:57] <lordievader> I.e. the 770 is useless.
[08:57] <lordievader> DenBeiren: Yes but I suppose you want it to be some shared group, but more likely it is just the user's group.
[08:57] <DenBeiren> i got two groups
[08:57] <DenBeiren> gebruikers and directie
[08:58] <DenBeiren> gebruikers should only access the share gebruikers
[08:58] <DenBeiren> directie should access directie and gebruikers
[08:58] <lordievader> I understand what you are trying to do, I'm trying to explain what is happening.
[08:58] <DenBeiren> uhu
[08:58]  * DenBeiren puts his listeningcap on
[09:00] <DenBeiren> so comment the four 770 lines?
[09:02] <lordievader> DenBeiren: That's not what I am saying... Read the backlog.
[09:02] <DenBeiren> uwnership is root:gebruikers and root:directie
[09:03] <lordievader> Also for files created by users?
[09:04] <DenBeiren> http://pastie.org/9716173
[09:04] <DenBeiren> no files in there so it seems
[09:05] <lordievader> So create them as some user...
[09:05] <DenBeiren> i'm afraid i have never done that trough terminal :s
[09:05] <lordievader> DenBeiren: I need to leave soon, but this will likely be usefull: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Access_Control_Lists
[09:06] <lordievader> DenBeiren: That wasn't the objective. Open the smb share through some host, copy/create a file and check with what permissions it is created.
[09:06] <lordievader> 13-09:54 < DenBeiren> the problem is that users who make a file can save it and see it,.. other users can't open the file
[09:06] <DenBeiren> ok will do
[09:06] <DenBeiren> so they "should" be user:group correct
[09:08] <lordievader> Err, yes. The reason that I used $USER:$USER earliere is that $USER is also a group for just the user $USER.
[10:07] <DenBeiren> lordievader: when files are created they are under username:username
[10:07] <DenBeiren> not username:groupname
[10:08] <neurotus> DenBeiren: not, UID:GID
[10:11] <neurotus> DenBeiren: by default there is a group created with the same name as the UID has
[10:12] <DenBeiren> hmm,.. not guite sure where to go from here i'm afraid
[10:14] <DenBeiren> neurotus: any hints?
[10:14] <neurotus> DenBeiren: man stat ?
[10:15] <neurotus> DenBeiren: man umask ?
[10:16] <neurotus> with sgid u can make the system BSD'ish so u have a "true-group" and not the default linux style uid:gid with the same "names"
[10:16] <neurotus> info coreutils is also usefull
[10:22] <neurotus> DenBeiren: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_permissions
[10:23] <DenBeiren> lots to read :-)
[10:23] <neurotus> DenBeiren: dont know what filesystem u are using if there is username:username created file :)
[10:23] <neurotus> literally taken
[10:23] <neurotus> UID:UID file
[10:24] <DenBeiren> it's a std install of ubuntu server
[10:24] <neurotus> DenBeiren: :D
[10:24] <neurotus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umask
[10:25] <neurotus> DenBeiren: ^^ there is a policy in linux to create a group with the same name as the UID
[10:25] <neurotus> the GID has the same name as the UID
[10:25] <neurotus> so user:group is correct, not user:user
[10:26] <neurotus> the GID is NOT UID
[10:26] <DenBeiren> uhu
[10:27] <DenBeiren> so what could be the problem that user a can't access a file that user b created?
[10:27] <DenBeiren> i'm sorry,.. not that much of a linux expert :(
[10:27] <neurotus> np
[10:27] <neurotus> man umask is great place to start
[10:28] <DenBeiren> still learning on a everydat base :-)
[10:28] <neurotus> so there are permissions for user:group:others for every file
[10:28] <neurotus> created...
[10:28] <DenBeiren> that would be the 770 that i think i need
[10:29] <neurotus> u want execute flag ?
[10:29] <neurotus> 666 :)
[10:29] <neurotus> everyone has then access to read and write that file but not execute
[10:29] <DenBeiren> it's basically a fileserver
[10:30] <neurotus> okay, so 444
[10:30] <DenBeiren> to store pdf, word etc
[10:30] <DenBeiren> open them, change them and save them
[10:31] <DenBeiren> so 444 it is?
[10:32] <neurotus> okay, then 660 so that not *everyone* can change the files but authorized users only, use a general $fileserverusers-group if u trust them
[10:33] <DenBeiren> we have two groups,.. gebruikers and directie
[10:33] <neurotus> add them to the group and set the sticky bit
[10:33] <DenBeiren> would you like me to paste the smb.conf?
[10:34] <neurotus> havent worked with samba-servers
[10:35] <neurotus> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/
[10:35] <neurotus> lots to read
[10:36] <neurotus> dont have the time
[10:36] <DenBeiren> again,.. more & more to read :-)
[10:36] <neurotus> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/samba-fileserver.html
[10:36] <neurotus> there's a quick one
[10:37] <neurotus> DenBeiren: i'm going for a cig
[10:37] <neurotus> DenBeiren: but u can paste the smb.conf in pastebin
[10:37] <DenBeiren> same here,..
[10:37] <DenBeiren> AND a coffee,.. seems like i'll need it
[10:37] <neurotus> i like to study
[10:46] <DenBeiren> neurotus: http://pastie.org/9716156
[11:04] <neurotus> https://www.liberiangeek.net/2014/07/ubuntu-tips-create-samba-file-server-ubuntu-14-04/
[11:05] <neurotus> in the end there is a quick guide to create a secure share
[11:14] <neurotus> DenBeiren: maybe apparmor would do the task if not a generic group is not enough
[11:14] <neurotus> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/samba-fileprint-security.html
[11:15] <neurotus> DenBeiren: dont know what have happened with win8 and win7 clients and samba thou
[11:15] <neurotus> if u use a workgroup
[11:16] <neurotus> if just a a share then the liberiantgeek.net guide is enough. not sure thou
[11:20] <neurotus> DenBeiren: u have added the users with smbpasswd ?
[11:20] <neurotus> and created that group ?
[11:20] <neurotus> security = user: requires clients to supply a username and password to connect to shares. Samba user accounts are separate from system accounts, but the libpam-smbpass package will sync system users and passwords with the Samba user database.
[11:21] <neurotus> Security = User
[11:21] <neurotus> This section will reconfigure the Samba file and print server, from Samba File Server and Samba Print Server, to require authentication.
[11:21] <neurotus> First, install the libpam-smbpass package which will sync the system users to the Samba user database:
[11:21] <neurotus> sudo apt-get install libpam-smbpass
[11:21] <DenBeiren> i think i did,.. but will run over it again to be sure
[11:22] <neurotus> http://pastebin.com/k8bZEj5L
[11:22] <neurotus> i would do it according to that guide
[11:23] <neurotus> dont have any knowledge on this subject in practice
[11:24] <neurotus> and remember to use the smb.conf syntax check
[11:24] <neurotus> for any errors in config
[11:24] <lordievader> DenBeiren: As I figured ;)
[15:12] <mdeslaur> hallyn: ok, qemu pushed to vivid, I'm done with qemu and libvirt for now
[15:13] <hallyn> ok, thanks.  probably won't have time to do srus today, but will do qemu srus next week
[15:21] <tych0> hi rbasak, when i try to symlink /var/lib/uvtool to some other partition (my root partition isn't that big), when i start a vm i get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8988707/
[15:22] <rbasak> tych0: I've noticed some issues around symlinking like that. Definitely a bug, but I need to investigate in more detail
[15:22] <tych0> rbasak: ok, cool
[15:22] <tych0> as long as its on your radar :)
[15:23] <rbasak> tych0: bug 1289784 is what I have. Yours sounds a little different.
[15:24] <tych0> rbasak: yeah, i've found in past releases it was best to start with an empty pool as a symlink
[15:24] <tych0> rbasak: i had stuff like that in the past
[15:24] <tych0> rbasak: i was running with a symlink successfuly on trusty, though
[15:25] <rbasak> tych0: I haven't really looked at uvtool in a cycle now :-/
[15:25] <tych0> ah
[15:25] <tych0> any ideas what this might be? i tried chmodding things to various perms and got nowhere
[15:25] <tych0> i suspect it probably isn't a permissions error, but something else entirely
[15:26] <rbasak> Check with virsh that it's not a libvirt issue.
[15:26] <rbasak> The domain XML and volume definitions should be sane.
[15:26] <tych0> yeah, they looked reasonable
[15:26] <rbasak> There's a little bit of an issue with the "key" of a volume in libvirt and its interaction with uvtool.
[15:27] <tych0> i don't have them now, i had to resize my / because i need to get work done :(
[15:27] <rbasak> A workaround might be to change libvirt's volume pool definition to point to the destination of the symlink.
[15:27] <tych0> rbasak: yeah, i tried that too, and got other errors
[15:27] <tych0> rbasak: a bandaid woudl be a --pool argument to uvtool
[15:27] <tych0> so that we could tell it to use alternate pools
[15:28] <tych0> not sure if that's easier than debugging what's there or not
[15:28] <rbasak> AFAIK, uvtool doesn't hardcode /var/lib/uvtool/libvirt/images anywhere. Only metadata/ which should be unaffected.
[15:28] <rbasak> So if the volume pool as libvirt knows it is somewhere else, I think it should be fine.
[15:28] <rbasak> (in theory - obviously it isn't)
[15:28] <rbasak> There's also AppArmor to consider. Any denials logged?
[15:29] <tych0> rbasak: IMAGE_DIR = '/var/lib/uvtool/libvirt/images/' # must end in '/'; see use
[15:29] <rbasak> Oh.
[15:29] <rbasak> Maybe not.
[15:29] <tych0> in uvt.simplestreams.libvirt
[15:29] <tych0> er
[15:29] <tych0> uvt.libvirt.simplestreams
[15:29] <tych0> but that should be ok, i think?
[15:29] <tych0> all that does is sync the simplestreams stuff
[15:29] <tych0> i haven't looked very close, though
[15:30] <tych0> rbasak: my /var/log/apparmor is empty
[15:30] <tych0> rbasak: is there somewhere better to look?
[15:30] <rbasak> dmeseg maybe
[15:30] <tych0> bingo,
[15:30] <tych0> [1537128.652964] audit: type=1400 audit(1415891484.649:322): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="libvirt-bcd89ed7-59dd-4cef-8d83-a7742af50457" name="/dl/uvtool/libvirt/images/x-uvt-b64-Y29tLnVidW50dS5jbG91ZDpzZXJ2ZXI6MTQuMTA6YW1kNjQgMjAxNDEwMjIuMw==" pid=30056 comm="qemu-system-x86" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=124 ouid=124
[15:30] <rbasak> Ah. IMAGE_DIR happened because I couldn't find a suitable API function.
[15:31] <rbasak> I think that needs to reflect how libvirt sees it and returns volume keys
[15:31] <tych0> rbasak: any thoughts on what the right fix is? :)
[15:32] <rbasak> tych0: edit /etc/apparmor.d/usr.lib.libvirt.virt-aa-helper
[15:32] <tych0> ah ha
[15:33]  * tych0 goes off to try
[15:33] <rbasak> I can't remember how you reload an AppArmor profile, but you'll need to do that.
[15:33] <rbasak> apparmor_parser <something>
[15:34] <rbasak> apparmor_parser -r < /etc/apparmor.d/usr.lib.libvirt.virt-aa-helper  # maybe
[15:34] <tych0> rbasak: ok, cool thanks
[15:34] <jpds> rbasak: Without the <.
[15:35] <rbasak> jpds: my manpage says it takes stdin by default?
[15:38] <tych0> rbasak: \
[15:38] <tych0> o/
[15:38] <tych0> it works
[15:38] <tych0> thanks!
[15:38] <tych0> (and it is without the <, or at least, that's what i did)
[16:52] <The_Tick> what is dns-clean? is it really just to clean up dns entries for a dialup connection?
[23:19] <pot8to> Hi i need some help with netatalk on my raspberry pi. I have a 3TB seagate USB drive connected but i cannot seem to get it mounted so i can access it remotely
[23:20] <sarnold> where's the problem? getting the drive mounted? or getting netatalk to share something so huge? or getting netatalk to share something at all?
[23:21] <pot8to> I guess all of the above
[23:25] <pot8to> http://pastebin.com/JieuQp6b
[23:28] <sarnold> pot8to: yikes, 3tb as vfat??
[23:28] <sarnold> pot8to: (a) does that work (b) does that actually work? (c) I can't believe that works :) hehe
[23:29] <sarnold> pot8to: can you actually manipulate files in /mnt and have some proof that they are on the drive you think they're on? that just seems so .. unlikely.
[23:31] <shauno> it should work, with 32kb clusters fat32 maxes at ~8TB.  It doesn't sound like a particularly good idea though.  (especially on a machine like a pi, which is very prone to hard shutdowns, I'd prefer a journalled fs)
[23:32] <sarnold> I haven't had any success with any FAT-based filesystem beyond two gigabytes.
[23:32] <ogra_> yeah, 3TB isnt a prob technically ...
[23:36] <ogra_> but fat cant manage files greater than 4G ... so forget about these HD movies you wanted to serve ;)
[23:36] <pot8to> I forgot to mention that it is formatted as Mac OS Journaled
[23:36] <pot8to> im trying to use it as a file server and time machine for my mac
[23:37] <sarnold> are you sure about that? mount thinks it's vfat.
[23:38] <pot8to> Yes because I was using it as a time machine backup disk and file storage about 1 hr ago


[02:22] <jbailey> Do we have a page somewhere that lists the differences between the dekstop and server kernels?
[09:53] <doko> kylem: toolchain is done, just in case you want to update the kernel headers
[11:46] <mvo_> is it correct that we do not support mremap() on MAP_ANONYMOUS?
[11:58] <mvo_> nevermind my mremap question
[02:05] <zul> BenC: er...xen doesnt use bzImage
[02:05] <doko> kylem, BenC: toolchain is done, just in case you want to update the kernel headers
[02:46] <zul> BenC: ping
[02:46] <zul> http://www.xensource.com/xen/xensummit.html
[03:09] <BenC> doko: cool, thanks
[03:17] <kylem> doko, awesome, thanks dude.
[03:23] <zul>  /win 12
[03:24] <kylem> /winnar
[03:24] <zul> :P
[03:29] <Nafallo> BenC: do I want to run the kernel you plan to upload today or will stuff be broken? :-)
[03:30] <BenC> Nafallo: if you need linux-restricted-modules, firmware, or drivers we had in /lib/modules/`uname -r/kernel/ubuntu/, then it will break for you
[03:31] <BenC> I think I can do an lrm upload today, but the ubuntu modules aren't ready yet
[03:31] <Nafallo> I don't need lrm. and hopefully only the webcam is in kernel/ubuntu. I'll check :-)
[03:32] <BenC> kylem: my i2k is still bricked...any chance you could try a build from gutst.git on it?
[03:32] <Nafallo> looks like I can try the new kernel today then... :-)
[03:33] <kylem> BenC, i can try a build on zx6k, but my i2k is unplugged under a table a couple km awya
[03:34] <BenC> doko: kernel source is building on sparc, ppc, i386 and x86_64, and should build on the others...so you might have new linux-libc-dev
[03:34] <BenC> kylem: ah right...no biggy...the buildd's can be our test build :)
[03:35] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:35] <kylem> hehe.
[03:37] <abogani> BenC: Do you have a minute for me and my spec (wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime)?
[03:38] <BenC> abogani: you may just want to read debian/binary-custom.d/README in the ubuntu-gutsy.git
[03:38] <BenC> abogani: you get me some real time patches that work in that build, and you'll have a kernel
[03:39] <abogani> BenC: I already done. When i have the patch (adapted for Gutsy git tree) i can submit it to you directly?
[03:40] <BenC> abogani: submit it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>just the patch, but the required files listed in that README
[03:41] <BenC> and we'll get lrm and linux-meta stuff for it after it's building and uploaded
[03:42] <BenC> abogani: you'll need a team I can assign bugs to for that kernel, and need to make sure the patch continues to apply cleanly
[03:42] <BenC> if I go to do an upload, and that patch doesn't apply...it may just be disabled for that upload
[03:43] <zul> heh now we are getting fancy..
[03:44] <BenC> zul: don't feel left out...any bugs on the xen stuff get assigned to you :)
[03:44] <zul> thanks..
[03:44] <zul> rejected rejected rejected ;)
[03:44] <BenC> I'll raise them to Critical and lock it :)
[03:44] <zul> dang it
[03:45] <Nafallo> btw zul, XEN has security support by you in feisty? :-)
[03:45] <BenC> do we have xen in feisty?
[03:45] <zul> yep
[03:45] <Nafallo> universe atleast :-)
[03:45] <zul> 2.6.19
[03:45] <abogani> BenC: Ok. Last question: i need to build two kernel image. One is the normal realtime version and the second is a trace-able realtime kernel version: It is possible (the last not required linux-headers-* linux-* meta package neither lrm and lum)?
[03:46] <Nafallo> nice. then I'll consider it for my server :-)
[03:46] <zul> and it works for amd64 apparently..
[03:46] <Nafallo> woha!
[03:46] <BenC> abogani: I'm not sure I want to clutter things with a trace-able kernel
[03:47] <Nafallo> sounds like it might be worth breaking my RAID-array then :-)
[03:47] <BenC> abogani: perhaps you could supply that one out of tree
[03:48] <abogani> BenC: Mh good idea. Ok i go to work on the patch. Thank you very much Ben.
[03:49] <BenC> abogani: np, glad we can finally get something in the kernel for you guys (rt and ubuntu-studio)
[03:51] <BenC> BenC> linux-image-2.6.21-1-KILL
[03:51] <BenC> * zul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[03:51] <BenC> I have the power!
[03:52] <Nafallo> haha
[03:52] <Nafallo> BenC: you killed the DC aswell maybe ;-)
[03:53] <BenC> only elmo and feisty-leechers have that power
[03:53] <Mithrandir> BenC: to the extent possible, I'd like you to try to get -rt and -lowlatency and similar stuff into the regular kernel builds since that'll cause less pain, security-wise.
[03:54] <BenC> Mithrandir: already in progress
[03:54] <Mithrandir> coolie.
[03:54] <BenC> Mithrandir: that was half the purpose of the new build system
[03:55] <BenC> xen, openvz, rt, and maybe some others
[03:55] <Mithrandir> it also makes it easier for us archive admins to keep stuff in sync and get rid of obsolete versions and such.
[03:55] <BenC> pain for the buildd, but wonderful for long term maint
[03:55] <Nafallo> machines could be upgraded then... ;-)
[03:56] <Mithrandir> yeah, worst case is we get a fatter i386 buildd.
[03:56] <Mithrandir> and amd64 buildd
[03:56] <Mithrandir> since I suspect you're not doing those kernels for sparc and ia64 and hppa?
[03:56] <Nafallo> and soyuzguys are still working on porting security over from DAK, right? :-)
[03:56] <BenC> amd64 isn't so much of an issue...i386 is the worst because it has 5 flavours now (and will grow) plus the indep build
[03:56] <Nafallo> so one more buildd / arch when that's done...
[03:56] <BenC> i386 actually needs a fat 2xquad xeon box
[04:01] <rtg__> Did the Ubuntu DC wink out? I'm only getting  as far as London2.Level3.net.
[04:01] <Mithrandir> rtg__: yes.
[04:11] <kylem> kind of odd, don't we have redundant pipe-age?
[04:12] <infinity> Yes.  Both routes seem to be stopping dead from here.
[04:12] <kylem> yow.
[04:13] <BenC> explains why the wiki is dead
[04:14] <gnomefreak> wiki is dead LP is dead and repos are dead :(
[04:14] <infinity> We know.
[04:14] <infinity> Also, we know.
[04:14] <infinity> And, as an added bonus, we know.
[04:14] <gnomefreak> :)
[04:15] <gnomefreak> ok play time work later ;)
[04:48] <BenC> infinity: did you know the DC is down? :)
[04:49] <infinity> BenC: Hadn't heard.
[04:49] <BenC> infinity: should I file an RT for it? I really need the DC...it's my favorite place to launch DOS attacks from
[04:53] <Nafallo> lol
[04:57] <bdmurray> Isn't it back now?
[04:58] <Nafallo> yea :-)
[04:58] <Nafallo> or getting back. not sure if they're finished with it yet :-)
[06:15] <dade`> somebody knows roos burton or knows his nickname on irc ?
[06:19] <Nafallo> dade`: ross
[06:19] <dade`> which network ?
[06:20] <thom> gimpnet is your best bet i imagine
[06:20] <dade`> thx
[06:24] <dade`> he's not online
[06:25] <zdzichuBG> catch him via jabber
[06:26] <dade`> jabber contact ?
[06:28] <zdzichuBG> his JID is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:56] <BenC>  708 files changed, 27665 insertions(+), 5304 deletions(-)
[06:57] <fabbione> tsk
[06:57] <BenC> it's huge, it's ugly, but damnit, you ppl asked for it
[06:57] <fabbione>  193 files changed, 1923 insertions(+), 8268 deletions(-)
[06:57] <fabbione> mine is better :)
[06:57] <BenC> hehe
[06:57] <fabbione> BenC: what patch is that?
[06:57] <zul> i have patch envy
[06:57] <BenC> Ingo's realtime
[06:58] <zul> is that with the binary-custom.d stuff?
[06:58] <BenC>  456 files changed, 88484 insertions(+), 543 deletions(-)
[06:58] <BenC> guess what patch that is :)
[06:58] <BenC> zul: yeah
[06:59] <zul> uh...xen?
[06:59] <zul> wheee..
[07:00] <BenC> going for the trifecta, and dropping openvz in here too
[07:00] <zul> er...openvz 2.6.21?
[07:00] <BenC> 2.6.20...hoping the patch applies
[07:00] <zul> good luck with that
[07:01] <BenC>  875 files changed, 81579 insertions(+), 4316 deletions(-)
[07:01] <BenC> doesn't look promising
[07:01] <zul> ouchie
[07:01] <BenC> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.22-1-xen' in `../linux-image-2.6.22-1-xen_2.6.22-1.1_i386.deb'.
[07:02] <zul> <mr. burns>excelent</mr. burns>
[07:02] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:02] <zdzichuBG> .22 ?
[07:03] <zul> yes.... .22
[07:03] <Nafallo> 18:14 < BenC> No, today's upload with be 2.6.22-1 (2.6.21 with SUBLEVEL  override to save me some work later on)
[07:03] <Nafallo> 22 :-)
[07:06] <BenC> within a couple of weeks it will become 2.6.22-rc1 anyway :)
[07:09] <zdzichuBG> mhm
[07:10] <fabbione> BenC: OMG
[07:15] <_MMA_> BenC: crimsun just let me know about the -rt. :) Ill start people testing it when Gutsy is ready.
[07:17] <BenC> kylem: how's lum coming?
[07:39] <BenC> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.22-1-rt' in `../linux-image-2.6.22-1-rt_2.6.22-1.1_i386.deb'.
[07:39] <BenC> this is too easy
[07:39] <zul> youve taken the fun out
[07:39] <Nafallo> :-D
[07:40] <_MMA_> :)
[07:48] <BenC> zul: pushed my changes with xen build if you want to give it a shot
[07:51] <BenC> openvz gets the boot for not applying...
[07:51] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:52] <zul> BenC: sure...im building a local version as well, Im in the middle of syncing the xen bits to 2.6.21 final as well
[07:54] <BenC> well, if this 4 arch build completes, this will get uploaded within a few hours
[07:54] <zul> cool
[07:55] <Nafallo> and then get built in the DC for 12h? ;-)
[08:02] <BenC> wont take 12 hours to build, but it will take at least that long to process to the archive
[08:04] <zul> is it possible to do a git diff xx days ago and its gets all changes between now and xx?
[08:04] <Nafallo> have you updated a wiki on how to build only generic from apt-get source? :-)
[08:07] <BenC> Nafallo: the Maint wiki page has been updated
[08:07] <BenC> it should work the same
[08:08] <Nafallo> kewl. thanks.
[08:08] <Nafallo> I might grab it and build it on my server then :-)
[08:08] <BenC> but specifically doing "fakeroot debian/rules binary-generic" is the new "Right Way(tm)"
[08:08] <Nafallo> kewl!
[10:32] <calavera> ?? ayuda
[11:21] <BenC> lovely...-rt makes it so ati can't be compiled...some symbol is GPL-only
[11:21] <Nafallo> ouch
[11:22] <kylem> what a pity that is.
[11:22] <Nafallo> so we're dropping ATI, right? ;-)
[11:25] <BenC> disabling fglrx for the -rt build is my only option
[11:33] <BenC> No nvidia either...happy graphics for the -rt folks :/
[11:34] <BenC> hope they're all using open source supported chipsets
[11:36] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[11:36] <Nafallo> VESA? ;-)
[11:36] <Mithrandir> Intel?
[11:38] <Nafallo> Intel is what I'm using :-)
[12:12] <BenC> time for the final test...


[06:36] <darkxst> ricotz, webkit is killing my retracer ;( can we drop the -dbg packages?
[06:37] <darkxst> we have dbysym anyway
[06:43] <ricotz> darkxst, hmm, do you intend to update the package to 2.0.4?
[06:46] <ricotz> darkxst, if this is *really* necessary then dropping the -dbg packages should be a ppa only thing!
[06:47] <ricotz> darkxst, what is breaking, did you talk to cjwatson or pitti about that?
[08:21] <darkxst> ricotz, its just really really slow ;(
[08:22] <darkxst> I was actually look at uploading 2.1.3 to staging, but the symbols are a nightmare
[08:24] <roasted> hello
[08:25] <roasted> off topic, but... IM A DAD! WOOO
[08:25] <roasted> that is all. :D
[08:26] <phako> congrats
[08:26] <roasted> :D
[08:26] <roasted> Sent from my Ubuntu GNOME laptop.
[08:26] <roasted> haaaa :D
[08:26] <roasted> (there, slightly back on topic)
[09:19] <darkxst> roasted, congrats!
[13:31] <anonee> darkxst how r u?
[13:35] <anonee> u know u remind me of a flash designer called darxide... anyway... bjsnider, darkxst, please I asked this in the ubuntu room but to no avail.
[13:35] <anonee> 1. my phone PAN network is showing multiple times on the network list, (the network manager icon of the GNOME panel) how do I delete the duplicates?
[13:35] <anonee> 2. many programs are showing multiple times on the list when I select open with another application in nautilus.. suggestions?
[13:35] <anonee> anonee: 3. I can't mount ext4 drive, I've read here and there but not yet found the solution?
[13:40] <tommie-lie> anonee: did you try mounting on the command line? what's the error message then? anything in the kernel log?
[13:58] <anonee> tommie-lie I partially resolved the mount problem, the only thing now is it's always mounted in read-only mode, no errors are showing in terminal
[13:58] <tommie-lie> apart from the "device X mounted readonly"?
[14:00] <anonee> tommie-lie: no, the terminal is not returning anything, just mounting the partition in read-only
[14:03] <tommie-lie> anonee: are you sure or does the user you try to access the volume with does not have write permissions (that's a difference)? try "mount" (without arguments) and look for "rw" or "ro" in the corresponding line of your volume
[14:03] <tommie-lie> usually mount reports a read-only mount if you requested a rw mount
[14:04] <anonee> tommie-lie it's not read-only, but only root can write, and chown doesn't seem to be doing anything, the owner is still root, I've also had the same problem trying to chown another directory! help!
[14:05] <tommie-lie> try chown /mountpoint/. instead of /mountpoint
[14:08] <anonee> tommie-lie: thank you! it worked! but how am I gonna fix the same for another directory? (in the File System partition)?
[14:10] <tommie-lie> subdirectories in your ext4 filesystem? chown -R descends recursively into all subdirectories
[14:11] <xrooters> sal all
[14:13] <anonee> tommie-lie no I don't mean all the directories lol I mean a certain dir physically under the root partition... it didn't work when I was trying to chown a dir under /var
[14:14] <anonee> also, why did it work when we put the dot? could u please guide me to some reading so i can understand why or if it's simple then tell me?
[14:17] <tommie-lie> anonee: I don't know why it did not work for a directory under /var, it definitely should (except if it's the same issue like before with a mounted volume)
[14:19] <anonee> tommie-lie thanks a lot for the help, a little dot unlocked a lot of space :)
[14:19] <tommie-lie> anonee: as for the mount issue: /mountpoint logically belongs to the filesystem where the mountpoint is. chowning (or chmoding) that only changes the parent directory. to write to the mounted filesystem, you have to have write permissions to the root of the filesystem, which can be identified by /mountpoint/.
[14:20] <tommie-lie> the . means "current directory" (just like .. means "parent directory"), so if /mountpoint/file refers to file in the root of the filesystem, /mountpoint/. refers to the root itself
[14:26] <anonee> tommie-lie I understand something now, you mean the . is an environment variable that by itself means current dir, but when there is a dir before it we get another variable (parent directory) am I understanding right?
[14:29] <tommie-lie> it's not an environment variable, it's a proper directory entry in the filesystem data structure
[14:30] <tommie-lie> every directory has it by default and you cannot change it
[14:30] <tommie-lie> ls -a displays it
[14:32] <anonee> tommie-lie thanx for the conversation and all, peace.
[20:26] <phillw> excellent work by Ali and aldoman, you have a really good looking header for wiki area :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/Header (corrected one thing that was throwing the box sizes out)
[20:30] <SonikkuAmerica> Ohai phillw, this was the last place I'd expect you to be! :) Guess you're all over like most of us
[20:33] <phillw> SonikkuAmerica: I'm a wiki editor, we pop up in all sorts of odd places :D
[20:34] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh please, I made huge edits to the Ubuntu GNOME wiki myself in prep for Ubuntu 13.04
[20:34] <SonikkuAmerica> :D
[20:35] <SonikkuAmerica> I should create my Lubuntu testing VMs again. I ditched them in favor of a dual Ubuntu GNOME / Windows 8.1 Preview install.
[20:35] <anonee> I activated bluetooth to browse files on my phone, selected the PAN profile, I did the selection 3 times instead of selecting my phone from the bluetooth menu and selecting (browse files), as a result, I have my phone name listed 3 times in the network list, on click, they will ask if I want to use my phone's internet. how can I remove the duplicates?
[20:37] <SonikkuAmerica> On Ubuntu-GNOME?
[20:38] <anonee> SonikkuAmerica: no, on ubuntu 12.04 in GNOME 3.4 fallback mode
[20:39] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh. That question can be asked in #ubuntu then. This is for Ubuntu GNOME (with the GNOME Shell), starting with release 13.04
[20:42] <anonee> SonikkuAmerica, I asked on ubuntu a few hours ago and now again, but nobody answered, and I googled but didn't find what I'm looking for, thank you for understanding... you didn't forget the old GNOME, I'm sure you still like it :D
[20:43] <SonikkuAmerica> Well... your issue isn't exactly with GNOME, but it can be tied to a program in the 12.04 repos, so keep asking.
[20:43] <SonikkuAmerica> ( in #ubuntu )
[21:53] <roasted> SonikkuAmerica: why are you in here.


 see notes from members channel (re @lubuntu_bot: (matrix) <arraybolt3> @teward001: Discourse is grumpy again.)
[16:10] <teward> arraybolt3: and others: check discourse now
[17:47] <arraybolt3> @teward001: Works over here, thank you!
 @teward001 works here (in Spain today..)
 In Spain? Where?. (re @Leokolb: @teward001 works here (in Spain today..))
[22:08] <arraybolt3> Further work on lubuntu-installer-prompt - I *finally* have the title visible no matter what (I gave up and put a background behind it :P). I also moved the buttons up a bit because they looked a bit awkward where they were at first IMO.
[22:09] <arraybolt3> I think at this point it's probably ready to be shipped, though we will still need a change to Casper to make autologin go into the Lubuntu Live Environment X session rather than the Lubuntu desktop session.
[22:13] <arraybolt3> Anyway, I guess it's finally time to take my mess of hacks and turn them into a clean set of Git commits.