[00:14] <jdstrand> ScottK: big thanks for taking care of 0.95.1 :)
[00:14] <ScottK> jdstrand: Thanks.  Glad I could find the time to squeeze it in.
[00:14] <jdstrand> ScottK: I actually added the CVEs to our tracker when they came through last week, and updated the USN
[00:15] <jdstrand> (but yeah, not in the changelog)
[00:15] <ScottK> jdstrand: OK.  There's one or two more from 0.95.1.
[00:16]  * jdstrand nods
[00:17] <jdstrand> I'll get to those next week
[00:18] <ScottK> jdstrand: One of the Debian guys is going to have a look at it tomorrow, so I may have something before then.
[00:34] <jdstrand> ah, great :)
[02:50] <Polk`> !hammertime
[06:15] <cemc> is there a way to install exim without removing postfix ?
[06:15] <cemc> when I do an apt-get install exim, it automatically wants to remove postfix, but I'd like to keep postfix on too
[06:16] <lamont> cemc: that is according to policy.  you get at most one MTA
[06:17] <cemc> I see. no way around that?
[06:17] <lamont> it would violate policy if you could.  so that'd be a "no, you can't do that"
[06:17] <lamont> of course, you could run the other inside of a VM or even a chroot, but then you get to decide which one listens on port 25, and which one fails
[06:19] <cemc> got it
[06:23] <ScottK> The one true answer is you really want to keep postfix.
[06:23] <ScottK> ;-)
[06:25] <cemc> I know that :)
[06:25] <cemc> just wanted to do some exim testing, without removing postfix
[06:25] <cemc> but I guess it only removes the package, not the config, so it's good
[06:26] <cemc> policy is kinda strange tho :) why can't I have more than one MTAs if I can handle the conf, or I have multiple IPs, or whatever
[06:28] <lamont> cemc: tell me how you'll have more than one daemon listening on port 25, and I'll tell you how to have policy allow multiple MTAs (oh, and make /usr/sbin/sendmail point to both MTAs while  you're at it)
[06:28] <ScottK> Multiple IPs could solve the port 25 problem, but not sendmail.
[06:28] <lamont> yeah
[06:29] <cemc> you have sendmail.postfix and sendmail.exim, and you have sendmail pointing to one or the other, like with alternatives ?
[06:30] <lamont> cemc: yeah - except for the part where debian policy says that the MTA will provides/conflicts/replaces: mail-transport-agent
[06:30] <cemc> ehe :)
[06:31] <cemc> too bad, but no biggie ;)
[06:35] <cemc> did I say something wrong? :))
[08:42]  * |Sigma| waves
[08:45] <|Sigma|> is there any way to setup a VPN server so only a certain subnet gets routed through it, and everything else gets routed to a DNS server?
[08:56] <twb> That would be called setting up a routing table
[08:56] <twb> Yes, you an do it.
[08:57] <twb> *can
[08:58] <|Sigma|> great, routing table, thanks for the key word, I've been trying to figure this out for a while
[09:00] <|Sigma|> so in this case, I could get away with setting up the table on the vpn server and then setting up the clients to send all traffic through the VPN, correct?
[10:39] <twb> Can I remotely drop a machine into single user mode and straight back out again?
[10:39] <twb> ls /proc/NNNN/ hangs, and similar problems with the process table, but I don't want to drive out there and do a hard reboot.  A soft reboot doesn't work, it just ignored my "shutdown -r now"
[10:52] <bootsandall> I'm a bit new to linux, but I guess you could set up a cron job to bring it back to multi user mode in 5 minutes?
[11:21] <twb> bootsandall: assuming that atd/crond aren't stopped as part of the single-user shutdown :-)
[11:21] <twb> As it happens, "telinit 1" is ignored just like shutdown (which amounts to telinit 0).
[11:22] <twb> I would like to blame upstart for this, but honestly it's more likely to be the mangling that openvz has done to the kernel's innars.
[11:22] <twb> *innards
[19:27] <ZipmaO^> Hi
[19:27] <ZipmaO^> Is there some way to track a user accounts shell command history?
[19:28] <ZipmaO^> I have e useracc that I used for samba and therefore had a trivial password. The account was hacked from ssh and now I want to know what they did
[19:34] <ropetin> ZipmaO^: they probably covered their tracks, but what about the .bash_history file in their home directory?
[19:35] <ZipmaO^> the account had /bin/sh shell at the moment
[19:35] <ZipmaO^> non-
[19:35] <ropetin> So as far as I know, no, there is no way to get a list of their commands
[19:35] <ZipmaO^> and was not admin
[19:35] <ZipmaO^> ok
[19:36] <ZipmaO^> can i search for files with a specific ownership?
[19:36] <ZipmaO^> I found files that I think they created in /var/tmp/.www/
[19:36] <cemc> ZipmaO^: try 'man find', and search for -uid, -user
[19:36] <ropetin> yup, find would be good, combined with grep
[19:37] <ZipmaO^> ok, really thanks for the help
[19:37] <cemc> something along the lines of: find . -user 'foo' (find all the files with owner foo in the current directory and below, aka recursive)
[19:38] <cemc> well this actually will find directories too, see -type
[19:38] <ZipmaO^> I didn't mind much when I noticed that someone logged in as the account when I ran "lastlog"
[19:38] <ZipmaO^> so I changed the shell then to /bin/false to prevent it again
[19:38] <ZipmaO^> But earlier today I noticed in syslog that somekind of cron-job was running every minute
[19:39] <cemc> oops :) sounds like you got hacked, or something ;0
[19:39] <ZipmaO^> found it in the hacked accounts crontab and it led me to /var/tmp/.www/
[19:39] <ZipmaO^> yep..
[19:39] <ZipmaO^> well the accound had the same name as passwd
[19:42] <ZipmaO^> Kinda scary but I guess I don't have to worry that much since the acc isn't in the sudoers list?
[19:45] <cemc> weell...
[19:45] <cemc> you _really_ want to check everything, you never know
[19:47] <yann2> ZipmaO^ > check /tmp, often stuff in there :)
[19:50] <ZipmaO^> ok, will do :)
[19:50] <ZipmaO^> Thanks for the help guys
[20:23] <cjwatson> ZipmaO^: unfortunately, local root escalation is one of the more common categories of vulnerabilities, so I'd second the suggestion to check everything very carefully indeed
[21:07] <ZipmaO> Cjwatson, I don't really understand the term "local root escalation" ?
[21:11] <andol> ZipmaO: Basically a vulnerability which allows a local non-root user to gain root status. It doesn't have to be a regular user, it can also be a system user, running one of your daemons.
[21:12] <ZipmaO> how would that be possible?
[21:13] <ZipmaO> Or more important: what to check?
[21:13] <ZipmaO> admin group, sudoers list, user shells?
[21:13] <ZipmaO> running daemons processes?
[21:49] <ZipmaO> noone?
[21:51] <mattt> hello
[21:52] <mattt> what's the question
[21:53] <cemc> ZipmaO: that's the problem... what to check... if there was an exploit and the hacker gained root access, he could've hid a backdoor, or something bad like anywhere...
[21:54] <ZipmaO> ok.
[21:54] <ZipmaO> I see
[21:54] <cemc> the smartest thing to do is probably a clean install,
[21:54] <cemc> but if not... you have check everything
[21:54] <ZipmaO> probably less efficient
[21:54] <ZipmaO> I don't have that much configuration on the server
[21:54] <cemc> not sure how is it done on ubuntu, but on redhat I did a rpm -Va, that checked every rpm installed,
[21:55] <cemc> every package for changes, then I went over the list of changes etc
[21:55] <cemc> check crontab, check stuff in /etc, users, change passwords, firewall ssh, let nobody in ;)
[21:55] <ZipmaO>  I just ran "sudo find / -ignore_readdir_race -user *****"
[21:56] <ZipmaO> just the files that I talked about earlier /var/tmp/.www/
[21:56] <ZipmaO> seemed like a script hack that installed an IRC-bot
[21:57] <cemc> mhm
[21:57] <mattt> ZipmaO: what was the file ownership of those files?
[21:57] <cemc> probably apache
[21:57] <cemc> ;)
[21:57] <mattt> yeah :)  check for mambo/phpbb/etc.
[21:57] <ZipmaO> all the files in that folder matched ownership of the username
[22:25] <ZipmaO> found some more files now..
[22:25] <ZipmaO> /proc/5303
[22:25] <ZipmaO> what are those folders used for?
[22:27] <cemc> proc/<pid>/ contains info about that process which is running and has that process ID
[22:27] <cemc> do a ps ax |grep 5303
[22:27] <cemc> and you'll see what process that is
[22:28] <cemc> better yet, do 'ps axu |grep 5303', so you can see the user the process is running as
[22:49] <ZipmaO> ok
[22:49] <ZipmaO> thanks cmec
[22:49] <ZipmaO> the hacked user owns that catalouge
[22:50] <ZipmaO> root      5303  3.0  0.2  13680  4860 ?        S    22:19   2:43 /usr/sbin/smbd -D
[22:50] <ZipmaO> Doesn't seem weird since it's a samba user
[22:50] <ZipmaO> ?
[22:51] <cemc> what did you find in /proc/5303 exactly
[22:51] <ZipmaO> sec..
[22:54] <ZipmaO> well.. quite many folders and files
[22:54] <ZipmaO> weird thing though, ran the find command again
[22:54] <ZipmaO> and didn't report any files under /proc this time
[23:01] <ZipmaO> Well well..
[23:01] <ZipmaO> Guess I'll do an reinstall asap
[23:02] <ZipmaO> just to be sure..
[23:03] <cemc> yep, that's probably the best thing


[10:14] <tarzeau> why does ubuntu not sync ansible from debian?
[10:15] <tarzeau> 2.7.8 in eoan? 2.8.3 in sid since 1/08/19
[10:18] <OerHeks> some of us use the ppa
[10:18] <OerHeks> https://launchpad.net/~ansible/+archive/ubuntu/ansible
[10:19] <tarzeau> i don't trust any PPA, unless i reviewed the source packages. or only use my own, but that's not ppa but reprepro
[10:36] <EoflaOE> Nautilus seems to be freezing when I am trying to restore a hidden file from the trash bin. Is this a bug or only me?
[10:46] <RikMills> tarzeau: you can always file a bug requesting one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess#Submitting_your_request
[10:48] <tarzeau> RikMills: i'm faster building my own :)
[10:49] <tarzeau> RikMills: i'd rather like popcon.ubuntu.com fixed! (waiting for it 3 years)
[10:49] <tarzeau> bugs have been filed. nothing ever happens\
[11:21] <RikMills> tarzeau: test building the debian version
[11:28] <dupondje> tarzeau: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ansible/+bug/1839312
[11:28] <dupondje> there :)
[11:33] <RikMills> looks like it would break tests on ansible-lint if synced
[11:33] <RikMills> https://ci.debian.net/packages/a/ansible-lint/unstable/amd64/
[11:33] <RikMills> so would get stuck in eoan-proposed
[11:33] <tarzeau> dupondje: +1
[13:16] <tomreyn> tarzeau: i think popcon was replaced by telemetry.
[13:16] <tarzeau> tomreyn: so they should close the page, remove popularity-contest
[13:16] <tomreyn> true
[13:17] <tomreyn> or rther keep it open so we ca have open stats, too.
[13:17] <tarzeau> what open? the numbers are freaking wrong, more i386 than amd64?
[13:17] <tarzeau> but 18.04 doesn't exist for i386
[13:17] <tarzeau> close it. or fix it. nothing else
[13:18] <tomreyn> i mean spend time on making it work properly and keep it open.
[13:18] <tarzeau> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/popularity-contest/+bug/1839129
[13:18] <tarzeau> tomreyn: i'm absolutely for that as well, many people tried that 1,5 years ago, FAILED
[13:18] <tarzeau> i gave up ubuntu people are able to fix it
[13:18] <tarzeau> but i'm sure they can just remove it all
[13:19] <tarzeau> they're collecting the data after all, just not putting it online
[13:25] <tarzeau> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/popularity-contest/+bug/1067277 since 2013


[00:36] <gamamtz> hi guys, can i ask?
[00:37] <gamamtz> does anyone know how to specify the network id in the juju deploy command for a controller in openstack with multiple networks?
[01:19] <gamamtz>  i solve it, with juju model-config network=networkid


[00:53]  * InHisName cracks knuckles and strechchchchches out
[09:25] <JonathanD> Morning.
[09:40] <rmg51> Morning
[09:40] <JonathanD> Hey rmg51
[09:40] <rmg51> Yo
[13:38] <InHisName> morning
[13:40] <JonathanD> Morning InHisName
[13:41] <InHisName> anything exciting, yet ?
[13:42] <JonathanD> Not that I'm aware of.
[13:42] <JonathanD> InHisName: come to fosscon!
[13:42] <jedijf> tons, arduino class, fosscon, installfest
[13:42] <JonathanD> yes, arduino class.
[13:42] <JonathanD> go learn
[13:42] <JonathanD> jedijf: when is this installfest?
[13:42] <jedijf> summer is now booked
[13:43] <jedijf> aug 11th
[13:43] <JonathanD> oh, the fosscon one :)
[13:43] <InHisName> I just might be able to, now.  The foster kids got to go to their great aunt to live.  Happy times for them.
[13:43] <jedijf> in 'the village'
[13:43] <JonathanD> jedijf: are there any other ubuntu events this summer?
[13:43] <JonathanD> I want to do a geeknic.
[13:43] <JonathanD> In evansburg, maybe.
[13:43] <InHisName> Is monday too soon?
[13:43] <JonathanD> Yes.
[13:44] <InHisName> I'm open then
[13:44] <jedijf> do it
[13:44] <JonathanD> I'll be camping.
[13:44] <JonathanD> InHisName: of course, you can do one...
[13:45] <InHisName> I have NO interest in being the only one there
[13:45] <JonathanD> you won't be the only one there.
[13:45] <jedijf> JonathanD: i'm booked - june arduino, july hope9, aug fosscon
[13:45] <JonathanD> jedijf will help get people there.
[13:45] <jedijf> but can always promote
[13:46] <JonathanD> I think eburg would be fun.
[13:46] <JonathanD> Trails, grills, tables.
[13:46] <JonathanD> open space for frisbee
[13:46] <JonathanD> I really did like oaks, though.
[13:46] <InHisName> How big a crowd to allow with short notice.
[13:46] <JonathanD> InHisName: 20
[13:46] <JonathanD> InHisName: honestly though, this weekend wouldn't work well. Too many people go to see family.
[13:47] <JonathanD> June 9?
[13:47] <InHisName> Maybe I can claim one sheltered picnic table in park near my home, will that be enough?
[13:47] <JonathanD> InHisName: yes.
[13:48] <InHisName> It's first come first serve 'reservations'.   Lotta grass, little nesshiminy creek, and playground
[13:48] <JonathanD> mm
[13:48] <JonathanD> what time, monday?
[13:48] <InHisName> oh and 1 mile paved trail
[13:48] <JonathanD> we'll be back from camping mid-afternoon.
[13:49] <JonathanD> if you do a late afternoon thing, I might be in for it.
[13:49] <InHisName> Probably need to squat by 10 or so to hold table
[13:49] <JonathanD> not sure I could make that.
[13:49] <JonathanD> I'll have to check our check out time.
[13:49] <InHisName> There are 3 tables and 3 shelters.  2 close to parking.   1 at other end of trail.
[13:50] <JonathanD> InHisName: if you really want to do this, write up something I can post to the geeknic site.
[13:50] <JonathanD> And start spamming. Now.
[13:50] <InHisName> I could try squatting around 2 for late afternoon gala ?
[13:50] <JonathanD> ask zenoli to announce it on PLUG announce
[13:50] <InHisName> I'll check with wife
[13:51] <JonathanD> check for geocaches.
[13:51] <JonathanD> andrew: poke?
[13:52] <InHisName> wife went grocery shopping, I'll know soon.
[13:52] <JonathanD> I might be able to put it on the freenode blog, too.
[13:53] <JonathanD> oh, and post it on reddit.
[13:53] <JonathanD> reddit.com/r/philadelphia
[13:53] <InHisName> Do I scheme and drag out a lotta food or what ?
[13:53] <JonathanD> and of course on the ubuntu list
[13:53] <JonathanD> InHisName: you want people to bring food.
[13:54] <JonathanD> if I can make it I'll bring a box of hot dogs.
[13:54] <InHisName> So, I only need to bring a normal amount of food, hen?
[13:54] <JonathanD> InHisName: my rule of thumb is I bring enough for ourselves, plus extra, but not so much extra that I'll hate myself if we end having to eat it the rest of the week.
[13:55] <InHisName> How much time span ?  3 hours good enough or more ?    2pm - 5pm ?
[13:55] <JonathanD> 3 hours is fine.
[13:55] <JonathanD> or you can do 2pm-?? :)
[13:56] <InHisName> either way fine for me.   Maybe say 2pm-??  allows others to stay longer if they want.
[13:56] <JonathanD> yeah.
[13:56] <JonathanD> no reason to set a hard stop.
[13:56] <JonathanD> it's not like it needs to be supervised, really.
[13:56] <InHisName> No camping though
[13:56] <JonathanD> it's just a picnic :)
[13:57] <JonathanD> does the park have a site?
[13:57] <InHisName> site?
[13:57] <JonathanD> website
[13:57] <JonathanD> or something
[13:57] <InHisName> might   Kemper park  (warminster, pa)
[13:58] <JonathanD> InHisName: ok, let me know whatever you can as soon as you can.
[13:58] <InHisName> It's a mile+ long and few hundred feet wide
[14:00] <JonathanD> InHisName: we're gonna wallop it on freenode, too. So get me info :)
[14:00] <InHisName> Let's do it.  Wife may not be back till noon.  Chances are we'll plan nothing otherwise.  I'll at least be there 2pm on.  Maybe figure starting to eat after 3 when most may have made it by. or maybe 4 ?
[14:00] <InHisName> I'll build google link to location in a bit.
[14:01] <JonathanD> Awesome.
[14:02] <InHisName> marker is 1/2 from parking lot in middle.   How to get marker on pking lot ?
[14:05] <InHisName> WOW! google offered a move marker function.   It might be permenant too.
[14:06] <InHisName> Thank you. Your edit has been saved and will be visible after it has been reviewed.      Hrmmm, I wonder how long that takes ?
[14:06] <JonathanD> I've done it before.
[14:06] <JonathanD> Takes a week or two.
[14:06] <JonathanD> it's not instant.
[14:07] <InHisName> check this and see if good enough ?   Parking lot on Valley Road off to left of marker.   http://ent=ubuntu&channel=fs&um=1&ie=utf-8&q=kemper+park,+warmi/
[14:08] <JonathanD> that url looks a little not very urly.
[14:08] <InHisName> translate ?
[14:08] <JonathanD> it doesn't have a site?
[14:08] <JonathanD> Just params
[14:08] <InHisName> oh
[14:09] <InHisName> try again: http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=kemper+park,+warminster,+pa&fb=1&gl=us&hq=kemper+park,+warminster,+pa&hnear=kemper+park,+warminster,+pa&cid=0,0,14682318733840890730&ei=ou28T_nUFsGk6gHXvPBh&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=4&ved=0CAsQ_BIwAw
[14:09] <JonathanD> thats better.
[14:09] <InHisName> Uggh
[14:09] <JonathanD> tinyurl time
[14:09] <InHisName> maybe if good do tinyurl
[14:10] <JonathanD> that marker is on someones house.
[14:10] <JonathanD> They have a pool, though, so thats good.
[14:10] <InHisName> He he he
[14:11] <JonathanD> Wheres parking?
[14:11] <InHisName> look to left and see sandy baseball diamond right by parking
[14:11] <JonathanD> Ok.
[14:11] <JonathanD> I see the sand.
[14:11] <JonathanD> and that brown thing is a shelter?
[14:11] <InHisName> I did a modify marker to move to space tween diamond and valley road.
[14:11] <InHisName> brown?
[14:11] <InHisName> tan is sand
[14:12] <JonathanD> near the trail.
[14:12] <JonathanD> brown structure south of diamond.
[14:12] <InHisName> trees
[14:12] <InHisName> 5-7 clumps of trees,  HUGE ones
[14:12] <InHisName> Mostly along creek bank
[14:13] <JonathanD> Ok. Parking on valley road.
[14:13] <InHisName> yes
[14:13] <InHisName> about 20 - 30 spaces
[14:14] <JonathanD> Maybe give the name of that church in the descript
[14:14] <JonathanD> that should be GPSable.
[14:14] <JonathanD> it's adress, anyway.
[14:14] <InHisName> If overflows parking can be at sewage pump station 4-6 spaces at corner of valley road & sinkler
[14:15] <InHisName> sinkler allows street parking
[14:15] <InHisName> Valley Road Church of Christ (my church)
[14:15] <JonathanD> 978 Valley Road
[14:15] <JonathanD> Warrington, PA 18976
[14:15] <InHisName> yes
[14:15] <JonathanD> (address of church)
[14:16] <InHisName> Park should be about low 900's
[14:16] <JonathanD> yeah
[14:16] <JonathanD> I couldn't find one for it.
[14:17] <JonathanD> Supposed to be 905
[14:17] <rmg51> http://www.warminstertownship.org/recreation/facilities.htm
[14:18] <JonathanD> 905 Valley Road (Valley & Sinkler Roads)
[14:18] <JonathanD> Walking Trails, Nature Areas, Picnic Areas, Parking, Picnic Pavilions, Playground, Softball Fields
[14:19] <InHisName> Sinkler & Carousel allow street parking,   No activitity at the church so that lot can hold 55 cars easy.
[14:19] <JonathanD> If you have 55 cars, you win for largest geeknic.
[14:19] <JonathanD> There is a prize.
[14:19]  * JonathanD reaches in the prize drawer and pulls something out.
[14:19] <JonathanD> It's a...
[14:20] <JonathanD> can of black beans!
[14:20] <InHisName> 'cept we all can't fit in one table in one pavilion
[14:20] <JonathanD> oh well
[14:20] <InHisName> Oooohhh, my favorite
[14:20] <JonathanD> Guess I'll keep my beans.
[14:20] <InHisName> Phoooo
[14:20] <JonathanD> maybe I'll grill them.
[14:20] <InHisName> Now that sounds intriguiging
[14:21] <JonathanD> InHisName: I can provide you the sum total of the geeknic wepay account, to help out with basic costs.
[14:21] <InHisName> There is a grill at eachone
[14:21] <JonathanD> It has a whole $10 in it.
[14:22] <JonathanD> sorry, $20
[14:22] <InHisName> what is a wepay account?   a card thingy?
[14:22] <InHisName> $20 is sorrier than $10?
[14:22] <JonathanD> I guess not :p
[14:23] <JonathanD> InHisName: it's how I take credit cards and stuff when people pay for camping that way.
[14:23] <InHisName> I could get some charcoal
[14:23] <JonathanD> We run a slight surplus, usually, and I use it to seed other geeknics.
[14:23] <InHisName> for the grill
[14:23] <JonathanD> and to buy spare tents.
[14:23] <JonathanD> :P
[14:24] <InHisName> do stores accept it ?
[14:24] <JonathanD> no, you can cash it out.
[14:24] <JonathanD> I transfer it to my bank, and I'll give you cash :P
[14:24] <InHisName> at a ban ?
[14:24] <InHisName> Ok
[14:24] <JonathanD> fosscon ticket sales are via wepay too
[14:24] <JonathanD> InHisName: do you want people to pre-reg or just show up?
[14:25] <InHisName> Are we 'charging' for this one ?
[14:25] <JonathanD> Probably not. Not unless you're paying for the pavilion or something.
[14:25] <InHisName> no charges as far as I know.
[14:25] <JonathanD> picnics have always been free
[14:25] <InHisName> no signs posted
[14:25] <JonathanD> camping costs because we have to pay for the sites.
[14:25] <JonathanD> Which can be a couple hundred bucks
[14:26] <InHisName> I see
[14:26] <JonathanD> Thats why we camp in NJ
[14:26] <JonathanD> it's like, $100, $150 for a huge multitent site.
[14:26] <JonathanD> In pa it $20 a day. Per tent.
[14:26] <InHisName> pa don't do group camps ?
[14:27] <JonathanD> not really.
[14:27] <JonathanD> not at the state parks anyway.
[14:27] <JonathanD> just "get a bunch of individual sites"
[14:27] <JonathanD> the groups sites in NJ are laid out for groups, too. They have large fire pits, and multiple picnic tables.
[14:27] <InHisName> my have to check into county parks, a rare few do camping
[14:27] <JonathanD> If you find one thats cheap enough, I'll bite.
[14:28] <InHisName> I'll keep my eyes open in next few months/
[14:28] <JonathanD> jedijf: got ubuntu CDs?
[14:29] <InHisName> so has jedijfs started the promotional campaign ?
[14:29] <JonathanD> InHisName: can I start posting?
[14:30] <InHisName> Sure
[14:30] <InHisName> maybe do the prereg to get early count.  Just in case we need to raid another pavilion for 2nd table
[14:33] <JonathanD> tell people to bring camping chairs.
[14:33] <JonathanD> easier than lugging a table over.
[14:34] <JonathanD> Philadelphia Area Memorial Day Geeknic, Monday May 28th
[14:37] <JonathanD> we should check the weather.
[14:37] <JonathanD> no precip, 68F, mostly cloudy
[14:37] <JonathanD> not bad.
[14:38] <JonathanD> InHisName: can I put your email on it?
[14:40] <JonathanD> as in "email so and so and let them know what you'll be bringing"
[14:45] <JonathanD> InHisName: I recommend a google docs spreadsheet of what people are bringing.
[14:48] <JonathanD> InHisName: since we'll be coming back from camping, there is a decent possibility I'll have useful stuff in the car already.
[14:48] <JonathanD> Like food. and a portable gas grill.
[14:54] <JonathanD> Joe_CoT: InHisName is organizing.
[14:56] <JonathanD> InHisName: http://geeknic.org/?p=173
[15:02] <InHisName> I may actually have 3 show up.   Wife and 22 y/o son interested.
[15:03] <InHisName> Two of the pavilions are near the playground, easily seen from parking.   Last is at other end of the trail.
[15:04] <InHisName> I prefer getting one nearer the parking, just in case I want the other table if it is not occupied.
[15:05] <InHisName> at the picnic is good enough
[15:05] <JonathanD> k
[15:05] <JonathanD> howdy MutantTurkey
[15:05] <JonathanD> InHisName: Irishmanluke is interested :)
[15:05] <JonathanD> thats why he's here.
[15:05] <InHisName> Kewl
[15:06] <InHisName> maybe MutantTurkey would be too
[15:06] <JonathanD> MutantTurkey: come to geeknic.
[15:06] <MutantTurkey> what time?
[15:06] <MutantTurkey> is it today?
[15:06] <InHisName> How's drexel treating you Irishmanluke
[15:06] <JonathanD> Monday.
[15:06] <JonathanD> 2pm.
[15:06] <MutantTurkey> where?
[15:06] <ChinnoDog> What? Picnic?
[15:06] <JonathanD> ChinnoDog: monday. 2pm
[15:06] <ChinnoDog> Where? Who will be there?
[15:07] <InHisName> awwww, poor ChinnoDog wasn't reading the stream here.
[15:07] <JonathanD> InHisName is in command, ChinnoDog
[15:07] <ChinnoDog> I just got here
[15:07] <InHisName> (10:56:26) JonathanD: InHisName: http://geeknic.org/?p=173
[15:08] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: link please?
[15:08] <JonathanD> http://geeknic.org/?p=173
[15:08] <InHisName> see link above
[15:08] <ChinnoDog> Who is going?
[15:08] <JonathanD> Everyone.
[15:09] <ChinnoDog> Irishmanluke: you have not been here in forever
[15:09] <InHisName> Irishmanluke: 3 in my family  JonathanD and ???
[15:10] <JonathanD> InHisName: jonathands family.
[15:11] <InHisName> Ummm, JonathanD need to edit that 173 contents:   its the 29th Monday,   add my email instead of yours ?
[15:11] <JonathanD> yes
[15:12] <JonathanD> InHisName: onday is 28th.
[15:12] <InHisName> Sounds like I need to grab two tables pretty quick.  There is only 3 tables total near parking.
[15:12] <ChinnoDog> I am not sure if that geeknic will fit into my schedule. I will be in PA but I hadn't anticipated a picnic on Monday and I have to drive home that afternoon
[15:13] <JonathanD> cancel driving home, move into park.
[15:13] <MutantTurkey> waltman: have you used kuiper at all
[15:13] <JonathanD> Monday is the 28th, right... I'm not losing my mind?
[15:13] <JonathanD> InHisName: 15:12:53 [freenode] -!- WALLOP mrmist:  Tired of sitting inside on IRC? Yes?! Then why not head over to the Memorial day geeknic in the Greater Philadelphia area this coming Monday at 2pm. See http://geeknic.org/?p=173 for details.  OR, if you're not in that part of
[15:13] <JonathanD>           the world, organise a geeknic yourself in your area!
[15:14] <InHisName> oh, I see someone posted the "STUPID" format for a calandar of geeknic,  Sunday in WRONG column.
[15:14] <JonathanD> hah
[15:14] <JonathanD> my fault, I guess
[15:14] <JonathanD> I did the theming. Most of it.
[15:15] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: crap that's what it is...
[15:15] <JonathanD> email updated.
[15:15] <MutantTurkey> i didn't realize monday is memorial day.
[15:15] <InHisName> NO SCHool, MutantTurkey, you can GO !
[15:15] <MutantTurkey> InHisName: Lol i am done school
[15:16] <MutantTurkey> more like getting dragged to new york for some birthday or some cousin
[15:16] <InHisName> See, aren't I right then ?
[15:16] <ChinnoDog> I still want to know who is attending said geeknic
[15:16] <JonathanD> ChinnoDog: you are.
[15:16] <InHisName> Just say:  I can't go, I just signed up for helping with geeknic !
[15:16] <JonathanD> InHisName and his famliy, me and mine, at least.
[15:17] <JonathanD> ChinnoDog: and we just walloped it, so who knows now :p
[15:17] <InHisName> someone said Irishmanluke was going too
[15:17] <JonathanD> Irishmanluke: are you going?
[15:19] <InHisName> we could special invite story characters:  LordOfTime, knightzero, MutantTurkey, pleia2,  hmmm does andrew count as a character also ?
[15:19] <MutantTurkey> if you imagined me as a super hero
[15:19] <MutantTurkey> what color would my outfit be?
[15:19] <JonathanD> orange.
[15:19] <InHisName> and brown
[15:19] <MutantTurkey> orangish with brown gloves
[15:19] <JonathanD> pleia2: fly to philly for a geeknic on monday, thanks.
[15:20] <MutantTurkey> anyone here up on Jquery stuff
[15:20] <MutantTurkey> i need a bit of help
[15:21] <InHisName> if any like java, maybe I could fumble around and bumpinto what you kneed.
[15:22] <MutantTurkey> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/toggle.html
[15:22] <MutantTurkey> see I am writing a very simple toggler for our website
[15:22] <MutantTurkey> it's basically done
[15:24] <InHisName> I see what you wrote, but I can't do anything with it.   Not readable to me either.   Can't find any mouse clickable spots.
[15:24] <MutantTurkey> whut
[15:24] <MutantTurkey> "Click to hide"
[15:24] <MutantTurkey> i mean sis that not working?
[15:25] <MutantTurkey> InHisName: might wanna refresh
[15:25] <InHisName> refresh fixed it.  Now got a link.
[15:25] <InHisName> It toggles
[15:26] <MutantTurkey> but look
[15:26] <MutantTurkey> see
[15:26] <MutantTurkey> it says "click to hide" then "click to show" but then won't work after that
[15:26] <MutantTurkey> for some reason the if statement isn't changing
[15:26] <InHisName> my screen shows 'click to hide' ALL the time.   I clicked 7 times still switching.
[15:27] <MutantTurkey> refresh
[15:27] <MutantTurkey> the first time it will say click to show
[15:27] <MutantTurkey> InHisName: I don't think you can help me ;-p
[15:27] <MutantTurkey> this is probably a jquery specific problem
[15:28] <InHisName> Some how it hides the text and puts the same click to hide message to screen (should put click to show)
[15:31] <InHisName> Hey, jthan, got your ears on?    geeknic closer to you on Monday.   Warminster just south of Doylestown. See discussion above about it.
[15:43] <JonathanD> InHisName: I may not be able to make it at all. We apparently are going to my parents after camping. I'll let you know though.
[15:44] <JonathanD> I could leave camping a day early, then come up there, THEN go to my parents.
[15:44] <InHisName> HEY!  you're why you got me started.
[15:44] <JonathanD> InHisName: I'll figure something out :p
[15:45] <InHisName> geeks are good at figuring things
[15:45] <JonathanD> Yes
[16:57] <InHisName> geeknic discussion appears to have tapered off somewhat............
[17:00] <JonathanD> yes.
[17:51] <waltman> MutantTurkey: I've never even heard of kuiper
[17:52] <MutantTurkey> ah nevermind
[17:52] <MutantTurkey> it's the cluster at drexel i use for processing stuff
[17:52] <waltman> You don't mean the Kuiper Belt?
[17:53] <waltman> Ah. No, I've never used it. You should talk to the guys in your lab.
[18:28] <MutantTurkey> yeah i did
[18:28] <MutantTurkey> :-)
[18:28] <JonathanD> InHisName: liven them back up
[18:56] <InHisName> Hey ! Batter, Batter,   GOOOOooooooo Geeknic !!!!
[19:10] <MutantTurkey> do you guys have a recommended way to send stuff locally?
[19:10] <MutantTurkey> like gigs of stuff
[19:12] <JonathanD> station wagon with LTO
[19:32] <waltman> LTO?
[19:32] <JonathanD> tapes
[19:33] <InHisName> Tractor Trailer full of floppies ?
[19:34] <JonathanD> yes.
[19:34] <InHisName> torrent?
[19:34] <InHisName> mem stick + stamps
[21:43] <InHisName> rockets ?
[21:56] <JonathanD> rockets!
[21:56] <JonathanD> what about them?
[21:56] <JonathanD> oh
[21:56] <JonathanD> for data transfer
[21:56] <JonathanD> InHisName: I am trying to work out a way to be there, so you know :) Working on it!
[21:57] <InHisName> u dropped figuring and took up Working instead ?       wellllll, I guess I'll allow either........
[21:57] <JonathanD> yes
[21:57] <JonathanD> working is better.
[21:57] <JonathanD> I'm making arrangements wiht people, not just planning to.
[21:57] <InHisName> usually the pay is better
[21:59] <InHisName> anyone seen a gang fight like this ?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkh6j7RMqk
[22:30] <rmg51> OPA!
[22:38] <jedijf> tomorrow's dinner
[22:42] <rmg51> and one more year will pass and I'll still won't get there


[00:07] <karigor> #ubuntu
[10:34] <Laney> @schedule london
[20:51] <lukehasnoname> motu coming up?
[20:53] <siretart> I'd think so
[21:00]  * persia looks about for a volunteer chair
[21:03] <persia> No volunteers?  Who is here for the MOTU Meeting then?
[21:03]  * siretart
[21:03] <mario_limonciell> i am, but i'm also in another meeting
[21:03] <siretart> ScottK: around?
[21:04] <ScottK> Yes
[21:04] <persia> ScottK: Willing to chair?
[21:04]  * ScottK thanks persia for volunteering
[21:04]  * persia has an agenda item
[21:04] <siretart> ;)
[21:04] <ScottK> Who else is here?
[21:04] <ScottK> I'll chair if someone else agrees to do the minutes?
[21:05] <persia> I'm happy to do minutes.
[21:05] <ScottK> Urgh.
[21:05] <ScottK> OK.  Anyone else around?
[21:06] <ScottK> It's 5 after, so I guess we start.
[21:06] <siretart> we
[21:06] <ScottK> Does someone have a link to the agenda?
[21:06] <siretart> well, there over 100 people lurking in this channel ;)
[21:06] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/
[21:06] <siretart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[21:07] <ScottK> persia: Looks like you're up first.  Go.
[21:07] <persia> The Ubuntu Contributing Developer team doesn't have an emblem, which was one of the things we planned to offer when discussing the team.
[21:08] <persia> A couple of people have put together some possible candidates for an emblem at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Emblems
[21:08] <persia> I'd like to pick one, and put it in LP to show up on all the members emblem lists.
[21:09] <persia> So, there are two parts: to confirm we want an emblem, and to select one of the three on offer if we do.
[21:09] <ScottK> Neither mok0 nor sebner are here.  So I guess it's fair.
[21:10] <persia> So, on the first, does anyone have strong feelings that we should or should not have an emblem?
[21:10] <siretart> persia: are you sure that the motu meeting is the appropriate corpus to decide on this matter? I would expect it under the motu council's competence to decide on this matter
[21:10] <ScottK> siretart: I think it should come to the meeting.
[21:11] <ScottK> MC can execute policy, but not decide it.
[21:11] <persia> siretart: I tend to prefer things to come from MOTU Meeting unless specifically delegated to MOTU Council, but MC can do it if no decision is taken here.
[21:11] <ScottK> We can always vote to let the MC decide.
[21:12] <persia> Or even just get consensus without an explicit vote, although 3 is a small quorum for all of MOTU
[21:12] <siretart> ScottK: ah, so the council is only doing decision if they are asked for for one?
[21:13] <persia> siretart: As I read the charter, MC can take a decision if either asked or if MOTU is clearly unable to take the decision.
[21:13] <ScottK> siretart: The general framework we've been operating under is that MOTU as a whole are responsible for management of Universe.
[21:13] <ScottK> siretart: MC only has the power MOTU choose to delgate to it.
[21:13] <ScottK> Tech Board has also delgated some stuff to them, but that's a separate issue.
[21:14] <siretart> persia: okay. In this case I herby ask the council to make the decision because I don't see MOTU in general and this meeting in particular unnable to make a decision about this
[21:14] <ScottK> persia: You want to second the motion?
[21:15] <persia> ScottK: No, but I'll take it to MC on that basis if you don't have a specific preference.
[21:15] <ScottK> Any objections to taking it to MC?
[21:15]  * ScottK waits ...
[21:15] <ScottK> 5
[21:15] <ScottK> 4
[21:15] <ScottK> 3
[21:15] <ScottK> 2
[21:15] <ScottK> 1
[21:15] <ScottK> Without objection, so ordered.
[21:15] <ScottK> Next.
[21:16] <ScottK> siretart: Over to you.
[21:16] <siretart> As I've already done on the mailling list, I wanted to inform MOTU in this meeting that we have a new LP liason
[21:16] <siretart> I have been asked by LaserJock to take this over after some private conversations
[21:17] <siretart> and since I think that I'm qualified for this job, I accepted.
[21:18] <siretart> I wanted to point out in this meeting that I'm explicitly asking for help in this job
[21:18] <persia> siretart: What sort of help do you need?
[21:18] <siretart> I know that other people have volunteered as well, but they didn't contact me yet
[21:19] <siretart> persia: keeping track of motu related bugs, discussion their relevance, prioritizing them motu wise and writing up launchpad release reports for motu
[21:19] <siretart> basically what I summarized in my opening email
[21:21] <ScottK> Anything else?
[21:22] <siretart> well,
[21:22] <siretart> there is currently a ffmpeg transition going on
[21:22] <siretart> many packages in universe FTBFS because of some API changes
[21:23] <siretart> I would be very grateful if someone fixed the packages and notify me to forward relevant patches to debian
[21:24] <persia> How are we tracking transitions these days?  I know we've stopped using bugs, but I'm not sure what is replacing that.
[21:24] <ScottK> On that note, I'd like to add that most clamav rdepends are currently FTBFS and the Debian maintainers seem to be MIA.  I'll provide pointers if someone wants to work on that.
[21:26] <ScottK> I suspect mostly we aren't.
[21:26] <siretart> persia: I think by compiling a list of affected packages in a text file and mail them to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:26] <siretart> at least that's how we did that in the psat
[21:27] <siretart> and that procedure does work in debian as well
[21:27] <persia> siretart: OK.  I don't remember doing that before, but it was never clear to me how they were tracked between the wiki tracking period and the bug tracking period.
[21:28] <ScottK> siretart: Perhaps you would be willing to bring a proposal to the next meeting on how we ought to be doing it.
[21:28] <siretart> persia: well, I may be biased here a bit, because I actively refuse to track such things in wiki.
[21:28] <ScottK> Personally, I think if people could just unubscribe from individual bugs we could use the transition bugs just fine.
[21:28] <ScottK> Perhaps our LP liaison could take that up with them.
[21:28] <siretart> ScottK: I'm not sure if I understand. The 'how' is rather obvious: fix the package
[21:28] <ScottK> How to track it.
[21:29] <siretart> hm
[21:29] <ScottK> The problem with the mass affects bug is that you can't get away from the bugmail if you are subscribed to a package that was ever effected.
[21:29] <persia> ScottK: In the absence of that feature, it can get annoying though.
[21:29] <siretart> yes, that's rather unsuited.
[21:29] <ScottK> If people could just unsub from inidividual bugs, then we could use it.
[21:29] <ScottK> persia: I agree.
[21:29] <siretart> we could use lp tags for tracking these bugs
[21:30] <persia> siretart: Is that one already on your list?
[21:30] <siretart> and have a dedicated 'transition maintainer' to enforce the correct usage of that tag
[21:30] <ScottK> siretart: I think not.  Filing a pile of inidividual bugs is painful.
[21:30] <persia> siretart: Having one bug per package for a transition?  That's just a lot of bug churn, and makes it hard to script a set of changes when one does 10-15 in a day.
[21:30] <ScottK> With one also affects bug, it's one mail to LP and it's done.
[21:30] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:31] <siretart> persia: that would be bug #204980
[21:32] <persia> Yes, precisely.
[21:32] <siretart> ScottK: you can script filing individual bugs unsing the malone email interface. I imagine reviving the lpbugs.py script
[21:32] <siretart> IIRC, we used individual bugs to track merges
[21:32] <siretart> I don't remember why we stopped doing that
[21:32] <persia> Some of us still do.
[21:33] <ScottK> siretart: That's another long discussion.
[21:34] <persia> And one that ought be on the agenda, rather than in AOB, as it's been a heated subject of discussion in previous MOTU Meetings.
[21:34] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:35] <ScottK> siretart: Did you have anything else on MOTU/LP liaison?
[21:35] <siretart> ScottK: no. it was supposed to be a short informational item
[21:35] <ScottK> OK.
[21:36] <ScottK> I have one other short informational item.  Anyone else?
[21:36]  * ScottK starts.
[21:37] <ScottK> I just wanted to mention that motu-sru is having a meeting on Monday to integrate the new members and baseline where we are.
[21:37]  * ScottK expects something to come out of that meeting to be discussed at the next MOTU meeting.
[21:37]  * ScottK finishes
[21:37] <persia> Do you seek external attendance at the meeting?
[21:37] <ScottK> persia: We haven't sought it, but it's certainly not private.
[21:37] <ScottK> Personally, I think it would be useful.
[21:38] <persia> ScottK: It's at 21:00, right?
[21:38] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:38]  * persia will so note in the minutes
[21:38] <ScottK> Anyone have anything else?
[21:38] <persia> Next meeting is the 28th, 04:00 UTC
[21:39] <ScottK> OK.
[21:39]  * ScottK moves that the meeting adjourn.
[21:39]  * persia seconds, wondering why the chair is making a motion
[21:39] <ScottK> Because it's a small meeting.
[21:40] <ScottK> Any objections?
[21:40] <ScottK> Meeting adjourned.
[21:40] <siretart> thanks for chairing, ScottK!
[21:40] <ScottK> No problem.
[21:42]  * siretart is pretty sad that we don't have a better way of determining the common will of the MOTU other than MOTU meetings
[21:42] <persia> siretart: Any suggestions?
[21:42] <ScottK> That would be another good topic for discussion.
[21:43] <siretart> persia: well, my suggestion would be to elect delegates that act on behalf of MOTUs
[21:43] <persia> siretart: Well, we have MOTU Leaders, who take responsibility for various areas.
[21:43] <ScottK> siretart: I think we are a small enough community we can act directly on most policy decisions.
[21:44] <persia> My feeling is that they ought be able to do things pretty much as they like, subject to oversight by MOTU Meeting.
[21:44] <persia> (with MC as backstop if MM is unable to take a decision)
[21:45] <persia> I'd hope any of our leaders would be leading in a direction others follow, or that someone would speak up.
[21:45] <ScottK> siretart: My suggestion would be stuff gets announced on MOTU ML before a meeting.  Discussed at the meeting where someone gets selected to chair the discussion.  Minutes get published and the issue 'chair' askes for feedback on the ML.
[21:45] <siretart> ScottK: I'm not sure if I agree. See, in this meeting exactly 3 motus showed up, and I don't think this meeting is that special
[21:45] <ScottK> Then on the ML, the chair judges the rough consensus of the MOTU and declares a result.
[21:45] <persia> It's the least-attended MOTU Meeting I've attended in the past year, but that's not special in a good way.
[21:45] <ScottK> If someone thinks the chair is wrong they can appeal to the MC.
[21:46] <ScottK> That way everything gets confirmed on the ML and everyone can have a voice.
[21:46] <persia> ScottK: I'm not sure if I like pushing everything to ML, just from a time perspective.  I rather like the relative speed with which decisions can be taken at MOTU Meetings.
[21:46] <siretart> my feeling is that the motu community lacks guidance. like in someone that proactively identifies problems and makes suggestions to solve them
[21:47] <siretart> I currently feel that we are doing PDSD
[21:47] <siretart> (panic driven software development)
[21:47] <persia> With the strong precedent of discussion at two consecutive meetings for contentious issues, I think everyone has a chance to attend, if they wish.
[21:47] <siretart> persia: you raise an intersting point. I have the feeling that the motu meetings continuesly fail to make decisions when they are needed
[21:47]  * persia thinks motu-release is the body that ought be proactively identifying the things to be done.
[21:48] <siretart> ScottK: do you agree here?
[21:48] <persia> siretart: What decisions do you feel are not being made?
[21:48]  * persia puts on the MC hat, to consider decisions that are otherwise not taken
[21:48] <ScottK> persia: It's hard to say.  As a volunteer entity it's hard to say how overall release decisions can be made.
[21:49] <ScottK> People have to want to work on stuff.
[21:49] <persia> ScottK: Maybe, although I had a lot of success with my Hardy QA goals email.
[21:49] <ScottK> Anyone know off the top of their head which RFC tells me how to make a DNS packet?
[21:49] <persia> Things like that could provide strong hints for those who "just want to help out".
[21:49] <siretart> persia: I remember quite some published meeting minutes saying 'not enough opinions could be found in the meeting, so it was defered to the next meeting'. With all sort of variants why the point has been deferred
[21:50] <persia> ScottK: Isn't it 1035?
[21:50] <persia> siretart: There's heaps of those, but my memory is that for most of them a decision was taken at the following meeting.
[21:51] <ScottK> persia: Yes.  Thanks.
[21:51] <siretart> persia: I think at this point we'd need to do some statistics
[21:52] <persia> siretart: Agreed.  I'll take that possibility to the MC, and if there are things being missed, one of us will bring them back to MOTU Meeting to ensure that a decision is taken.
[21:52] <persia> (of course if someone else wants to also do a MOTU Meeting minutes review to check our work, that would be appreciated)
[21:54] <siretart> persia: it may perfectly be that I'm totally wrong here. it is rather a general feeling I have when rethinking the work I've done on and in ubuntu the last few years
[21:55] <ScottK> I agree that that happens on contentious issues.
[21:55] <siretart> and my feeling is that we are becoming more and more a medium sized group of developer, with a very silent majority that generally is not asked and does not actively participate in making decisions
[21:56] <ScottK> There are never enough MOTU at any one meeting that they feel comfortable deciding for the others.
[21:56] <persia> siretart: Feelings are important.  Regardless of whether you are correct, it's worth doing the statistics and publishing the results.
[21:56] <ScottK> That's why I think asking for consensus on the ML can get past some of that.
[21:56] <siretart> one problem is that we don't even have means to ask the whole motu community on their opinions on certain matters
[21:56] <siretart> of course everyone is free to post to the mailing list, but that's not a proper vote
[21:56] <persia> On the other hand, I'm against pushing things to mailing lists: I really don't like mailing lists as a means of making decisions.
[21:57] <persia> I also don't like delegating to people without a means of group oversight.
[21:57] <siretart> persia: no, mailing lists suck at making decisions. however they are great for soliciting and collecting opinions
[21:57] <siretart> persia: I agree
[21:57] <persia> Yeah.  Let's add "Making decisions in MOTU" to the next meeting agenda.
[21:58] <siretart> persia: MC or MOTU Meeing?
[21:58] <persia> ScottK: Would you be willing to write up something about sending to the ML before the meeting, etc.
[21:58] <ScottK> persia: Yes.
[21:58] <ScottK> I'm unlikely to be at the next meeting however.
[21:58] <persia> siretart: MOTU Meeting.  I want to try to transition within the existing rules, rather than change because MC said so without discussion.
[21:59] <ScottK> Actually me proposing it and then not being here for the decisioncould be considered a feature.
[21:59] <siretart> persia: yes, we should at least try that. However I don't have high expectations in that to succeed
[21:59] <persia> ScottK: OK.  I'll try based on your rough description above then.  Please update once it hits the agenda.
[21:59] <ScottK> OK.
[22:00] <persia> siretart: Understood.  MC will take it if the next meeting can't decide, but I don't want to grant all such decisions to MC unless we really can't do it as MOTU.
[22:00] <ScottK> persia: It's the IETF consensus process in a nutshell.
[22:00]  * persia has another meeting starting, so will be distracted, but will try to check backscroll frequently
[22:01]  * siretart need to go afk as well
[22:03]  * ScottK too.
[22:04] <persia> Right then.  We'll call it done, and maybe discuss in #ubuntu-motu before the next meeting
[23:03] <HardDisk> how does one apply on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA ?
[23:04] <RainCT> HardDisk: Add yourself on the wiki page and come to the next meeting
[23:05] <RainCT> (and of course prepare your wiki page, ask your "fan club" to come to the meeting and all that stuff)
[23:05] <HardDisk> ah edit itself, ok I got you.
[23:05] <HardDisk> :)
[23:06] <HardDisk> hopefully current members will be able to attend, my timezone is very different to them
[23:06] <HardDisk> as I am in Egypt and they're in the US/Canada
[23:06] <HardDisk> thanks btw.
[23:06] <RainCT> HardDisk: well, if they can't a testimonial on your wiki should do (although it's not that impresive :))
[23:06] <RainCT> your welcome
[23:06] <HardDisk> I understand.
[23:06] <HardDisk> I will try.
[23:07] <RainCT> good luck
[23:08] <persia> HardDisk: Note that you don't have to attend the meeting in your region, if another region is more convenient time-wise for you and your sponsors.
[23:08] <persia> The idea is to have meetings at different times of day, which roughly maps to location, but variance is fine.
[23:09] <HardDisk> okie dokie :)