[00:18] <asac> @time
[08:25] <[reed]> What's a way to get the current libgtk2.0 version if you don't have libgtk2.0-dev installed (and can't use pkg-config because of that)?
[08:29] <asac> [reed]: gtk_major_version constant?
[08:29] <[reed]> I want a one-liner I can give people to run on the command line
[08:29] <[reed]> to get their current GTK+ version
[08:30] <asac> [reed]: i think you need C for that ... or python if they have that installed?
[08:31] <asac> unless you want to depend on packaging of course
[08:31] <[reed]> lame
[08:31] <[reed]> oh well
[08:32] <asac> [reed]: wait a second ;)
[08:33] <[reed]> I'm looking for a solution that's cross-distro, too
[08:33] <[reed]> pkg-config would have worked, but it requires the dev package
[08:33] <[reed]> which is lame
[08:33] <[reed]> :(
[08:33] <gnomefreak> no ome sees me here
[08:34] <asac> [reed]: mozilla could provie that info in about -> dialog ;)
[08:35] <gnomefreak> what does this package do? libpam-runtime
[08:35] <gnomefreak> IIRC pam == the password dialog
[08:37] <asac> its a authentication framework
[08:37] <gnomefreak> crap
[08:37] <asac> allows you to plugin in new auth mechanisms
[08:38] <gnomefreak> its badly broken
[08:40] <asac> [reed]: in python you can type:
[08:40] <asac> import gtk
[08:40] <asac> gtk.gtk_version
[08:40] <asac> that should give you the version without the need to link or such ;)
[08:41] <asac> of course depends on gtk + python + pygtk
[08:45] <gnomefreak> ok im going back to bed itx early (3:44)
[08:45] <asac> gnomefreak: sleep tight
[09:10] <XioNoX> hi !
[09:11] <fta> strings /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so* | grep 2.0 | head
[09:12] <fta> but using the distro pkg tool is probably better
[09:16] <[reed]> fta: looking for distro-agnostic method
[09:19] <kgoetz> [reed]: looks the most agnostic to me ;)
[09:19] <[reed]> yeah
[09:19] <[reed]> my reply was to <fta> but using the distro pkg tool is probably better
[09:19] <[reed]> I like fta's command
[09:26] <noiesmo> can i ask a question about thunderbird extensions here
[09:27] <fta> [reed], doesn't work with debian though :(
[09:56] <asac> i dont see any version with the command above ;)
[09:57] <asac> fta: doesnt even work here ;)
[09:59] <asac> but maybe thats because of my cloak ;)=
[10:26] <XioNoX> asac, it is more difficult that I've though :(
[10:28] <XioNoX> the js don't update the content of the richlistbox
[10:41] <asac> XioNoX: what are you on atm?
[10:41] <asac> implementing your own application-like dialog, right?
[10:41] <XioNoX> yes
[10:43] <XioNoX> I can show you what I've done
[10:43] <asac> go ahead
[10:44] <XioNoX> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521817
[10:44] <XioNoX> and
[10:44] <XioNoX> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521818
[10:46] <asac> so you need box in richlistitem?
[10:48] <XioNoX> the application tab have a box element
[10:48] <XioNoX> so i've done the same thing
[10:48] <asac> XioNoX: did you see that in code or DOM inspector?
[10:48] <XioNoX> dom
[10:48] <XioNoX> it is very powerfull
[10:49] <asac> XioNoX: yes. but what you see there is wrong ;)
[10:49] <XioNoX> because of xml ?
[10:49] <asac> well not really wrong, but it pretends to be different to what you have to code
[10:50] <asac> XioNoX: yes. what you see in DOM is the final dom hierarchy... this includes automatically generated elements
[10:50] <asac> if you define in xbl richlistitem like:
[10:50] <XioNoX> but the what you see in the xul file work

[10:50] <XioNoX> only the implementation of js don't
[10:50] <asac> it will look in dom inspector as if <richlistitem><box><test/></box></richlistitem> is senseful xul
[10:50] <asac> XioNoX: right. please do what the .js file does
[10:51] <XioNoX> i've try it too
[10:51] <XioNoX> but with the same result
[10:52] <asac> XioNoX: in dom inspector the "red" elements are generated implicitly by xbl
[10:52] <XioNoX> yeah, i know that
[10:54] <asac> XioNoX: ok. remove everything except the header from this .xul
[10:54] <asac> and just copy the code from application.js
[10:54] <XioNoX> the full .js ?
[10:55] <asac> no ... the _rebuildView code?
[11:01] <XioNoX> ok, but this function use others functions and the XUL of the applications.xul
[11:01] <XioNoX> and preferences.xul
[11:04] <XioNoX> in the application.xul there are a richlistbox with the headder stuff
[11:18] <asac> XioNoX: right. you need that richtlistbox in your xul
[11:18] <asac> the rebuildView thing doesnt really do much
[11:18] <asac> copy that code... replace dynamic elements with static elements for now
[11:18] <asac> shouldnt be a big problem
[11:24] <XioNoX> var _list = document.getElementById("pluginsList");
[11:24] <XioNoX> alert(_list);
[11:24] <XioNoX> return null
[11:24] <XioNoX> but I have this in my xul : <richlistbox id="pluginsList" orient="vertical" persist="lastSelectedType">
[11:39] <asac> XioNoX: well .... maybe you are not in the same document?
[11:40] <XioNoX> I think I'am
[11:40] <XioNoX> it is the same xul file that I've pastbin you
[11:41] <asac> XioNoX: well if you run that code before it has been loaded you wont find anything
[11:41] <asac> you have to put that in a function that gets run when the doucment is loaded
[11:41] <asac> or am i wrong=
[11:42] <XioNoX> ok
[11:42] <XioNoX> We are going to lunch, i'll fix taht after
[11:42] <XioNoX> see you
[11:50] <XioNoX> asac, ok, it work :) I've just put the javascript line of the xul at the end of the xul file :)
[11:51] <asac> XioNoX: thats ugly
[11:51] <asac> use the "load" event please
[11:56] <XioNoX> i know i know, it was just for testing :)
[12:06] <asac> haha
[12:39] <gnomefreak> there is a new email virus out. it comes from airlines with attachment (dont open it)
[12:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> ...
[12:54] <gnomefreak> ;)
[12:56] <gnomefreak> anyone use liferea?
[12:57]  * asac lunch
[12:57] <asac> gnomefreak: fta uses it
[12:57] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, me and fta, AFAIK
[12:57] <gnomefreak> its broken
[12:57] <gnomefreak> it frezzes up
[12:58] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, really? fta asked for a sponsor yesterday (or the day before) to upload new version. Are you talking about that one?
[12:58] <gnomefreak> it might be the updates causing it but i will find out
[12:58] <Jazzva> ok
[12:59] <gnomefreak> term is freazing up as well
[13:00]  * gnomefreak needs a dictionary today
[13:00] <gnomefreak> i guess i go for smoke until updates are done
[13:16] <gnomefreak> look out for http://www.savvywallet.com/2008/07/25/bogus-virus-email-affecting-sun-country-airlines/ im looking into what it does
[13:43] <XioNoX> asac, how can I doo the mimetype ==> human readable conversion ? window.navigator.plugins dont seam to have mimetypes
[14:16] <asac> XioNoX: ill give you something .... just ignore that for now ;)
[14:17] <XioNoX> hu ?
[14:23] <asac> XioNoX: i'll try to find a solution to map a mime-type to a readable name ;)
[14:24] <XioNoX> I'm trying
[14:24] <XioNoX> and I thing I'm not far
[14:24] <XioNoX> yeah it is almost working
[14:28] <XioNoX> asac, check this please : http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521909
[14:29] <XioNoX> the loop stop too early
[14:29] <XioNoX> and don't go througs all mimetypes
[14:31] <Wulfie> hey folks, a while back I asked in here and someone showed me how to change the default "zoom" behaviour in Firefox 3 back to the old behaviour (changing text size not zooming everything) . . . how do I change that back :)
[14:33] <Wulfie> a browser.zoom.full
[14:34] <Wulfie> thanks folks
[14:35] <XioNoX> asac, sorry, it is ok :)
[14:38] <asac> good
[14:38] <asac> let me know when we get to the next step ;)
[14:41] <XioNoX> nxt step ?
[14:41] <XioNoX> not i'm attacking the dropdown menu
[14:42] <XioNoX> who appear when we clic on the line
[14:44] <asac> yeah
[14:44] <asac> thats the right thing
[14:44] <asac> for now just display the matching plugins available
[14:44] <asac> and the current default
[14:44] <asac> which is:
[14:44] <asac> 1. identified by its .so path ... if there is a pref
[14:44] <asac> 2. or the first plugin in the list that matches
[14:45] <asac> (so quite simple)
[14:45] <asac> (though indirect)
[14:46] <XioNoX> . or the first plugin in the list that matches ?
[14:53] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: you gonna be around today?
[14:53] <asac> XioNoX: yes. thats correct
[14:53] <asac> in the plugins array == list
[14:53] <asac> browser.plugins
[14:54] <XioNoX> ok
[14:54] <XioNoX> now i'm trying to understand how the menu works
[14:55] <gnomefreak> bug 492837
[14:55] <gnomefreak> !test
[14:55] <gnomefreak> wtf is wrong with you
[14:56] <asac> !test
[14:56] <asac> works ;)
[15:07] <gnomefreak> yeah just fixed the plugin for bugs but the person sent email with that bug in subject and its not a bug
[15:08] <gnomefreak> ok someone pushed diggler to Intrepid but from looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Extensions/List?action=show&redirect=MozillaTeam%2FFirefox3Extensions neo diggler is the one that should be pushed to archives once its worked on
[15:08] <gnomefreak> are they going to conflict?
[15:10] <gnomefreak> once i find out what is wrong with my rules file i will sttart getting info needed for neo
[15:10] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, pretty much, but still working on this school project
[15:12] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, to find out if diggler and neo-diggler (which is based on diggler) are going to conflict, look in their chrome.manifest files
[15:12] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: can you look at something when you get time? i will have to pull up error again but its error in rules was gonna look more into it after email but i didnt see anything wrong with it last night
[15:12] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: than do we drop neo-diggler?
[15:12] <gnomefreak> or will it superseed diggler
[15:12] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, and look at their chrome uri's. if they're the same (meaning the writer of neo-diggler didn't change them), they're probably gonna drop it
[15:12] <Jazzva> s/uri's/URIs/
[15:13] <gnomefreak> 3. Accepted: diggler 0.9-16ubuntu1 (source) (Bhavani Shankar)
[15:13] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[15:13] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, I added neo-diggler because back then diggler wasn't in development anymore. If diggler is in development again, then maybe we don't need to add neo-diggler
[15:13] <gnomefreak> so far no info ws found other than license but i dont trust that since they didnt add any other info
[15:14] <Jazzva> It should be on addons.mozilla.org
[15:14] <gnomefreak> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3763
[15:14] <gnomefreak> that neo
[15:15] <gnomefreak> Neo Diggler is a tidy-up, bug-fix and minor re-organisation of the original Diggler
[15:15] <Jazzva> yeah... I think we're gonna add neo-diggler
[15:15] <gnomefreak> someone should ask for its removal if its gonna conflict
[15:15] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, diggler: Updated September 27, 2004
[15:15] <gnomefreak> it was pushed on the 18th
[15:16] <gnomefreak> of this month
[15:16] <Jazzva> And it only works for Firefox up to 1.0.*. Maybe someone is updating it in Debian for recent Firefox versions
[15:16] <gnomefreak> anyone know the person that pushed it see ablve
[15:17] <asac> si there an upstreawm update?
[15:17] <asac> otherwise we should migrate users to it
[15:17] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: when you get time (doesnt hav to be today) can you look at http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521926
[15:17] <Jazzva> asac, for diggler? no
[15:17] <asac> to neo-diggler
[15:17] <gnomefreak> asac: neo-diggler is not in devel anymore
[15:17] <asac> or isnt neo diggler similar?
[15:17] <gnomefreak> opps
[15:17] <asac> he?
[15:17] <gnomefreak> i mean diggler isnt
[15:17] <Jazzva> asac, this is the last changelog entry which is related to the source: install.rdf: Allow diggler to work with Iceweasel 2.0.
[15:17] <asac> ok
[15:17] <Jazzva> asac, in 0.9-12
[15:18] <asac> how similar is the featureset of diggler vs. neo-diggler
[15:18] <asac> ?
[15:18] <asac> fta: we have one mui important feature thing to do in this cycle :(
[15:18] <gnomefreak> asac: not sure yet there isnt enough info on the wiki yet unless Jazzva knows
[15:18] <asac> fta: migrating nss/nspr back to upstream soname
[15:18] <Jazzva> asac, I haven't looked at both, but this is what desc for neo-diggler says "Neo Diggler is a tidy-up, bug-fix and minor re-organisation of the original Diggler"
[15:19] <asac> fta: so, byebye shlibs i guess and byebye debian
[15:19] <asac> fta: good thing is that debian wont follow (they are frozen), so they will end up with a less compatible nss
[15:19] <gnomefreak> shit error is http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521945
[15:19] <asac> just kidding ;) ... I dont really want debian any harm
[15:20] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, it doesn't have a build command. I'm not sure if asac pushed med-xpi-pack which should be the default command in case where no build command is defined in debian/rules
[15:20] <asac> gnomefreak: what is your binary package name in control
[15:20] <asac> gnomefreak: and what is the source package name
[15:20] <asac> gnomefreak: if they dont match, you probably have the wrong name in rules
[15:20] <gnomefreak> both same "chatzilla"
[15:20] <asac> whats the build command ?
[15:20] <asac> that appears to be not executed
[15:20] <asac> have you named chatzilla in rules?
[15:20] <asac> paste rules might be a good idea
[15:21] <Jazzva> asac, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/521926
[15:21] <Jazzva> rules
[15:21] <gnomefreak> MOZ_EXTENSION_PKG := chatzilla
[15:21] <asac>  yeah ... there is no build command
[15:21] <asac> no doubt thats a likely reason
[15:21] <asac> for your build doing nothing
[15:21] <gnomefreak> could be but this xpi.template worked for firegpg
[15:22] <asac> gnomefreak: well. that doesnt matter
[15:22] <asac> you need a build command for sure
[15:22] <asac> unless you do other black magic ;)(
[15:22] <Jazzva> and back to thread synchronization. yay... *sigh*
[15:22] <gnomefreak> would rather keep it "official" that way when time to push it doesnt require i play 50 questions
[15:22] <Jazzva> see you later
[15:23] <asac> gnomefreak: firegpg has a build command
[15:23] <gnomefreak> later Jazzva and thanks
[15:23] <Jazzva> no problem :)
[15:23] <gnomefreak> and im sure maybe the CVS of this one does too but itsa old
[15:23] <asac> gnomefreak: no
[15:23] <asac> BUILD_COMMAND is xpi.mk specific
[15:23] <asac> you need one
[15:23] <asac> fix that
[15:24] <gnomefreak> #MOZ_XPI_BUILD_COMMAND = sh build.sh
[15:24] <gnomefreak> thas wrong?
[15:25] <asac> yes
[15:25] <asac> what does that mean=?
[15:25]  * asac is testing gnomefreak ;)
[15:26] <gnomefreak> dont know other than = is same
[15:26] <gnomefreak> well == is
[15:26] <gnomefreak> = mean sum/answer
[15:26] <asac> what does the first letter mean?
[15:26] <gnomefreak> s?
[15:26] <asac> that means that its commented
[15:26] <gnomefreak> yes
[15:26] <asac> # MOZ_XPI
[15:26] <gnomefreak> oh it cant be that easy
[15:26] <asac> -> it doesnt matter
[15:26] <asac> its not enabled
[15:26] <gnomefreak> it cant be that easy
[15:26] <asac> you also need to ensure that there is a build.sh that builds chatzilla
[15:27] <asac> remove the #
[15:27] <asac> if there is no build.sh ... figure what to use to build and use that instead
[15:28] <gnomefreak> i dont remember seeing one but ill look again
[15:28] <gnomefreak> let me finish what im doing first
[15:29] <gnomefreak> debian bug 492837
[15:29] <gnomefreak> that why it wsant on LP
[15:30] <XioNoX> asac, just a little thing, I can't find the page which explain how to get things in the preferences
[15:31] <gnomefreak> ok be back a bit later
[15:32] <asac> XioNoX: ther are other places in the extensions where i get the prefs
[15:32] <asac> search for getCharPref
[15:33] <XioNoX> ok, thx
[15:54] <XioNoX> asac, if modules.plugins.mimetype. how do I know wich plugin is used ?
[15:55] <XioNoX> specially if there are many plugins installed for the same mimetype ?
[16:02] <asac> XioNoX: the two point above where the algorithm to fiture out which is used
[16:02] <asac> figure
[16:03] <XioNoX> 2. or the first plugin in the list that matches ?
[16:03] <XioNoX> so it is a kind of aleatory ?
[16:03] <asac> yes... but first 1.
[16:03] <XioNoX> yeah yeah
[16:04] <asac> aleatory?
[16:04] <asac> dont know what that means ;)
[16:05] <XioNoX> sorry
[16:06] <XioNoX> random
[16:06] <XioNoX> trying to make english words with french one :)
[16:06] <XioNoX> so it is a kind of random ?
[16:07] <asac> yes. thats the whole problem ... and thats why i diud that patch to select a specific plugin for a mime-type
[16:09] <asac> XioNoX: if 2. makes our algorithm to return wrong values, then i need to add support to query for what plugin is used in firefox core
[16:09] <asac> but i think we come along that way.
[16:17] <XioNoX> ok
[17:33] <XioNoX> asac, do you know how the list appear when we clic on the pluginlist ?
[17:34] <XioNoX> or at least how to put things on this list ?
[17:34] <asac> yes. the richlistbox has a onsomething listener which basically transforms the row and replaced the right hand label with a drop down
[17:35] <asac> look in the applicaions.xul
[17:39] <XioNoX> it seam to be set by the xml
[17:40] <XioNoX> so I have to name my functions the same
[17:44] <asac> james_w: do we have something like Vcs-Bzr-upstream Vcs-Bzr-release Vcs-Bzr-nextrelease ? where i can point to "upstream", "release" and "nextrelease" branch?
[17:44] <james_w> no, that's not defined by Debian
[17:45] <asac> the situation is like this: release from ~ubuntu-core-dev branch, which receives merges from ~network-manager branch
[17:45] <james_w> I think at least -upstream would be really useful, but they didn't think to include it
[17:45] <asac> and i have the feeling that choosing any of those is always wrong in some way
[17:45] <asac> e.g. using ~network-manager wont give url to get exactly this release
[17:45] <asac> ~ubuntu-core-dev doesnt tell the user where to develop against
[17:46] <asac> james_w: yes, but even if i had upstream i needed more ;)
[18:57] <saivann> asac : ping
[19:18] <gandi> asac: ping
[20:26] <fta> back
[20:27] <fta> asac, "one mui important", "mui" ? wtfit ?
[20:34] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/39500/
[20:36] <asac> mui == much ;)
[20:57] <Siva> Hi asac, wikz tells me that you had some questions about Spicebird
[20:57] <Siva> I'm one of the developers for Spicebird
[21:06] <fta> asac, for nss, i assume it means rebuilding all deps, right ?
[21:07] <fta> i mean rdeps, of course
[22:52] <asac> fta: not sure ;)
[22:53] <asac> maybe its "just" flipping the direction the links point to ;)
[22:53] <asac> and drop the soname patch
[22:55] <asac>         gcc -x c -shared -Wl,-soname,libsoftokn3.so.0d -o debian/libnss3-0d/usr/lib/libsoftokn3.so.0d - < /dev/null
[22:55] <asac> fta: understand what this is ment to do?
[22:56] <asac> make a null lib?
[22:57] <fta> sure but everything linked to the .1d will need to be relinked with the .so
[22:57] <fta> or did i miss something ?
[22:59] <asac> well. current situation is that upstream builds can use our libs
[23:00] <asac> but the other way around isnt true
[23:00] <asac> so they seem to be related still ;)
[23:00] <asac> lets see whats happening without the soname patch ;)
[23:00] <asac> and a bit .links file shuffeling
[23:01] <fta> afaik, we provide .so links but we use the .1d, not the links
[23:01] <asac> right
[23:01] <fta> others could then use the .so or the .so.1d, we couldn't
[23:01] <asac> thats why i think just flipping that link direction might be enough
[23:01] <fta> oh, ok, i mis-read,
[23:02] <asac> 1. drop soname, 2. flip link direction
[23:02] <fta> i read drop .1d/.0d
[23:02] <asac> 3. take care that upgrade really fixes the links (which might be a tricky thing)
[23:02] <fta> could work
[23:02] <asac> most likely .preinst upgrade and abort required
[23:03] <fta> I had too much beers tonight
[23:05] <asac> hmm. i have to recreate the .symbols files i guess
[23:06] <fta> could we drop the kbsd patches then, they are a pain to keep in sync, and we don't need any of this
[23:06] <asac> sure
[23:07] <asac> fta: how do i recreate those symbols from scratch?
[23:07] <fta> move out the files
[23:09] <asac> hmm we get the full package version
[23:10] <asac> the debian ones were just upstream iirc
[23:10] <fta> grr, +300 new rss entries per day, too much to keep up with
[23:10] <fta> eh ?
[23:10] <fta> oh
[23:10] <asac> ah ok -v
[23:11] <fta> or strip manually
[23:14] <fta> mozilla Bug 356295
[23:18] <fta> mozilla Bug 418129
[23:29] <fta> mozilla Bug 450646
[23:31] <asac> oh dear. i hate writing those scripts for upgrade and downgrade case


[02:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk]** jaydensmith opened [issue #54](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk/issues/54): Keyboard appearing at top of screen... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5a1cceb7a731dc72e0da8c00e02ccb50084009cc>)
[04:04] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** RAOF opened [pull request #2889](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2889): platform: Drop unused `last_frame_on` interface... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4c64cd492aa0c8594e8236ce0861d28c7df1d1f5>)
[05:45] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk]** Saviq closed [issue #54](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk/issues/54): Keyboard appearing at top of screen
[08:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** AlanGriffiths edited [issue #134](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/134): Keyboard appearing at top of screen
[08:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** jaydensmith opened [issue #134](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/134): Keyboard appearing at top of screen... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/44e75fcf5f90358c9bbf4bc3d9696163090bebe5>)
[08:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk]** AlanGriffiths transferred [issue #54](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame-osk/issues/54): Keyboard appearing at top of screen
[09:00] <alan_g[m]> Saviq, the OSK placement seems to only be fixed on 22, not on 20 & latest. Assuming testing confirms this I'll cherry-pick onto core20? (Or would you like a PR?)
[09:06] <Saviq> alan_g  Please do cherry-pick
[09:08] <alan_g[m]> Done, we're now waiting on LP to import the changes. (But that looks odd "Last successful import was 20 hours ago.")
[09:10] <Saviq> "The next import is scheduled to run as soon as possible.", just waiting for a runner looks like
[09:11] <alan_g[m]> Maybe, but it was already saying that, and IIRC runs every 4 hrs
[09:14] <alan_g[m]> Not worrying (yet), but flagging as a potential problem
[09:22] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** AlanGriffiths opened [issue #135](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/135): We don't label snap versions clearly... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c8b12e34166b1f7bb368dcaccaa9243f9c600461>)
[09:36] <alan_g[m]> Hmm, this doesn't look right:
[09:36] <alan_g[m]> https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+machines
[09:37] <alan_g[m]> (All the import machines are offline)
[09:37] <Saviq> Yup, will let LP know
[09:54] <Saviq> They're chugging along now
[09:56] <alan_g[m]> 32 down 600 to go
[09:56] <alan_g[m]> *6000
[09:57] <Saviq> Will probably be a couple hours…
[09:59] <Saviq> Though we should be some place ⅓ of the queue I think
[10:00] <alan_g[m]> So, once we have the builds, I'll promote to candidate. And to {latest,20}/stable tomorrow (can't make things worse can it)
[10:01] <Saviq> At least we found out someone's using the OSK…
[14:50] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2889](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2889): platform: Drop unused `last_frame_on` interface
[15:27] <alan_g[m]> Saviq we still don't have the autoconnect for mesa-core22 do we? Should we hold off promoting things to 22/stable until that is in place?
[15:27] <Saviq> We don't, but since 22 is explicitely opt-in, and it will tell you what's up, I think it's OK
[15:29] <Saviq> Though it could use a rebuild to pick the better contents up:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/97df495feba2b3a4498b0e1728f645b383e55b2f>)
[15:30] <Saviq> https://github.com/MirServer/graphics-core22/blob/main/bin/graphics-core22-wrapper
[15:31] <alan_g[m]> We merged that didn't we? Why isn't that on beta already?
[15:31] <Saviq> Because that gets staged
[16:35] <Saviq> sophie did you ever get your Nvidia setup working?
[16:36] <Saviq> I seem to have found a way to reproduce https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2873… just run confined-shell. It's nothing to do with Xwayland after all
[16:38] <sophie-w> not yet, laptop still in the shop. will hopefully get it back this week
[16:38] <Saviq> Will pound at it a bit to at least get a reproducer. Looks like devmode is helping, for no good reason
[16:59] <Saviq> Gaah. gdb segfaulting. This feels like EOD.


[00:38] <arand> What is it that keeps changelogs lagging so much in publication? Why would they be anything but simultaneous to package publication?
[01:16] <Darxus> Heh, there's a needs-packaging bug for launchpad.
[02:47] <Darxus> Depends: autopano-sift-c | autopano-sift
[02:47] <Darxus> ^ That'll install autopano-sift-c if it's available, and only autopano-sift if autopano-sift-c isn't available, right?
[02:50] <jbernard_> Darxus: correct, it also allows another package to /provide/ autopano-sift and satisfy the depend
[02:53] <Darxus> jbernard_: Thanks.
[02:54] <Darxus> autopano-sift-c hasn't been packaged, but there's a bug open for that, and I'm just trying to eliminate the need for repackaging.
[02:54] <Darxus> (hugin 2009.2.0).
[02:54] <Darxus> Actually... it would be good if the hugin 0.8.0 package did that too :/
[02:54] <Darxus> Nah, that doesn't matter.
[02:58] <Darxus> Er, kernel packages don't have "kernel" in the package name anymore?
[03:00] <Darxus> Ah, "linux-image".  Weird.
[03:02] <quidnunc> Anyone know where I can find where a python package would specify that it requires version 2.5? I can't find any reference to it in control, just ${python:Versions}
[03:02] <ari-tczew> dunno
[03:06] <Darxus> Wow, kernel packages don't use quilt.
[03:06] <JanC> Darxus: on Ubuntu kernel=linux might be true, but e.g. on Debian it might be "hurd" or "kfreebsd" too I think  ;)
[03:07] <Darxus> JanC: Yes, I agree it's important to have "linux" in the package name, but I don't see that as a reason not to have "kernel" in the package name.
[03:08] <Darxus> Although shortening the package names after putting the more useful "image" vs "headers" in there makes sense.
[03:08] <JanC> I guess some kernel package names are too long already...
[03:11] <Darxus> - NAME = Man-Eating Seals of Antiquity
[03:11] <Darxus> ^ Ubuntu kernel package.
[03:13] <Darxus> Wow, I just realized the kernel packages are fully synked from debian, no patching.
[03:15] <Darxus> Okay, so I'm patching debian version 2.6.31-11.38 with bfs303, so does that make the version 2.6.31-11.38-bfs303-1ubuntu1 ?
[03:24] <Darxus> Or just 2.6.31-11.38-bfs303 ?
[03:28] <ari-tczew> Darxus: want you get patched kernel into ubuntu repos?
[03:29] <Darxus> ari-tczew: Eventually.
[03:29] <ari-tczew> I guess it's impossible :)
[03:29] <Darxus> ?
[03:29] <ari-tczew> eventually, you can send patched kernel on your ppa
[03:30] <Darxus> Yeah, I want to build it and boot it first, since somebody else mentioned they managed to build it but it wouldn't boot.
[03:31] <ari-tczew> yhym
[03:31] <ari-tczew> or other way you can open bug for request apply patch (bfs303?)
[03:32] <ari-tczew> btw. what about hugin? I saw that you're working on merge from experimental (?)
[03:32] <Darxus> The bug is open, bug #424927
[03:33] <Darxus> ari-tczew: Yeah, looks like hugin 0.8.0 got accepted.  I merged hugin 2009.2.0 from debian experimental.  It's done.  But it won't get acked until I find out why the debian maintainer had it in experimental instead of unstable.
[03:34] <ari-tczew> 0.8.0 needs sponsor
[03:34] <ari-tczew> like a libpano
[03:34] <Darxus> Hmm, I thought that would've been taken care of by now :/
[03:35] <ari-tczew> not yet
[03:36] <ari-tczew> if it's have been taken care, status should be a "Fix released"
[03:36] <Darxus> Ah, right.
[03:37] <Darxus> *Wow*, the debian diff against the linux kernel .orig is 295,602 lines.
[03:38] <Darxus> Ah, this is ubuntu specific.  Weird that ubuntu isn't in the version number.
[03:40] <ScottK> Normally for stuff that we know didn't and won't come from Debian we don't bother with Ubuntu in the version number.
[03:41] <ScottK> Ubuntu doesn't use the Debian kernel, but packages it's own, so the ubuntu would be pointless.
[03:44] <ari-tczew> ScottK: could you upload libpano to universe?
[03:45] <Darxus> ScottK: Ah, cool, thanks.
[03:45] <ScottK> ari-tczew: Perhaps later.  What bug?
[03:46] <ari-tczew> bug 440177
[03:49] <ari-tczew> ScottK: maybe you know, ubuntu now longer support epiphany-browser (gecko)? only -webkit?
[03:49] <ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't.  I'm a Kubuntu user
[03:50] <ari-tczew> OK
[03:51] <ScottK> ari-tczew: I just checked an epiphany-browser is in Universe for Karmic, so that is correct.  Firefox is, of course, still supported, so there's at least one Gecko browser supported.
[03:52] <Darxus> Kernel compiles should display an eta.  Or at least percentage complete.
[03:53] <ari-tczew> -gecko is out-of-dated. webkit is 2.28
[04:07] <micahg> I found a dependency was not incremented properly in debian so now ubuntu doesn't knwo the correct version for a package
[04:07] <micahg> what to do?
[04:10] <micahg> ScottK: are you around?
[04:11] <ScottK> micahg: I am.  What's up?
[04:12] <micahg> It seems like kvpnc is FTBFS becuase the dependency on pkg-kde-tools was not bumped to 0.5.0 minimum
[04:12] <micahg> we have 0.4.11
[04:13] <micahg> latest is 0.5.1
[04:15] <micahg> sorry, I'm on an overlapping wireless channel at the moment
[04:15] <micahg> ScottK: any idea what I should do?
[04:17] <ScottK> micahg: I'm not sure why that would cause an FTBFS?  In Karmic it will just use the version present and that's new enough.
[04:17] <micahg> ScottK: no, the failure is because a needed file was added in 0.5.0
[04:18] <micahg> or at least the build thinks it needs it
[04:18] <micahg> I cannot ascertain if it's actually necessary
[04:18] <micahg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33004646/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.kvpnc_0.9.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[04:18] <ScottK> It's a valid packaging bug in any case
[04:19] <micahg> so should I file a sync request against pkg-kde-tools?
[04:19] <ScottK> micahg: I see what you mean.
[04:20] <ScottK> I thought we had 0.5 something
[04:21] <micahg> ok, hopefully that fixes my wireless issue
[04:21] <micahg> ScottK: what did I miss?
[04:22] <ScottK> micahg:What's the last thing you saw from me?
[04:22] <micahg> (10:18:26 PM) ScottK: It's a valid packaging bug in any case
[04:23] <ScottK> micahg: OK.  I also said that I'd thought we had 0.5 something and I see we don't.
[04:24] <micahg> ok, well that seems to be the issue
[04:24] <ScottK> micahg: This close to release, I don't think we want to do a major pgk-kde-tools upgrade.  Perhaps you can pull the missing stuff from 0.5, include it in your debian dir and modify debian/rules to look there.
[04:24] <ScottK> Before there was a pkg-kde-tools all their stuff was kept in the debian dir, so in theory I know that can work.
[04:25] <micahg> this is ridiculous, I apologize
[04:27] <ScottK> Oh?
[04:27] <micahg> my wireless droppiong like this
[04:27] <micahg> so, what should I do?
[04:28] <ScottK> [23:24:19] <ScottK> micahg: This close to release, I don't think we want to do a major pgk-kde-tools upgrade.  Perhaps you can pull the missing stuff from 0.5, include it in your debian dir and modify debian/rules to look there.
[04:28] <ScottK> [23:24:46] <ScottK> Before there was a pkg-kde-tools all their stuff was kept in the debian dir, so in theory I know that can work.
[04:28] <ScottK> micahg: Get it that time?
[04:28] <micahg> yes
[04:28] <micahg> it's a perl module that's missing
[04:28] <micahg> so, I should include that in the kvpnc package?
[04:29] <ScottK> micahg: I'd try that first
[04:29] <micahg> hmm, I've never done this before, but I'll give it a shot, might take me a day or two
[04:30] <ScottK> OK
[04:32] <Darxus> Achieving what I believe is a good clean merge from debian is an exciting first for me, as simple as it was.  Two lines.
[04:43] <micahg> nevermind, I should probably just use it and not install it
[05:20] <ScottK> Darxus: Doing a lot is easy.  Being minimally invasive is a challenge.
[05:21] <Darxus> Heh.
[05:23] <fabrice_sp_> ScottK, do you think you will have time to upload Bug #440177?
[05:24] <fabrice_sp_> just to know if I retain hugin 0.8.0 upload until it's uploaded or not
[05:26] <ScottK> fabrice_sp_: I'm looking at it now.
[05:26] <fabrice_sp_> cool. thanks :-)
[05:26] <ScottK> I thought you uploaded hugin already?
[05:31] <ScottK> fabrice_sp_: It's building now.  It ought to be in the archive to build against in ~75 minutes on the fast archs.
[05:32] <fabrice_sp_> ScottK, I just wanted to build it locally, just to be sure it builds fine, and run fine
[05:32] <ScottK> OK.
[05:32] <fabrice_sp_> will test it today then :-) Thanks!
[05:32] <fabrice_sp_> (again :-) )
[05:33] <ScottK> OK.
[05:56] <micahg> ScottK: ok, I think I got it
[05:56] <micahg> test build in my ppa in an hour hopefully
[06:22] <fabrice_sp_> hyperair, do you really needs sponsoring for bug #442328? :-D
[06:22] <hyperair> fabrice_sp_: sure i do. from an archive admin, that is =)
[06:22] <hyperair> i've got motu-release ACKs and uus ACK from directhex
[06:30] <fabrice_sp_> uus? ahh: I thought you were a MOTU :-/
[06:31] <fabrice_sp_> my bad :-)
[06:32] <fabrice_sp_> I've just subscribed archive-admin
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:13] <fabrice_sp_> good morning dholbach !
[07:14] <dholbach> hola fabrice_sp_
[07:14] <mase_wk> hey guys i have a kernel packaging question, is this the appropriate place to ask ?
[07:14] <dholbach> #ubuntu-kernel will probably give you better answers :)
[07:15] <mase_wk> dholbach: hmm I've asked numerous times in the channel and the mailing list for the ubuntu-kernel and everyone ignores it so I assumed it was the incorrect place to ask. Will try agin. Thanks
[07:16] <dholbach> they might be sleeping now
[07:18] <swoody> porthose, ping
[07:18] <porthose> swoody, pong
[07:18] <swoody> porthose, just got your email
[07:18] <mase_wk> dholbach: since this is for business use , do you know if there a canonical support option where I would be able to ask packaging questions ?
[07:19] <porthose> swoody, is emgent still mentoring you?
[07:19] <swoody> porthose, I haven't been under MOTU mentoring, for quite a long time. Last I remember something was going on with my original mentor (Pablo I believe?) I don't know what happened, but everything just kind of fell apart from there
[07:20] <swoody> I don't remember anyone by the name of emgent, though
[07:20] <dholbach> mase_wk: can you drop me an email about it - I can make sure your query reaches the right hands - atm I don't know
[07:20] <dholbach> mase_wk: dholbach at ubuntu dot com
[07:20] <swoody> so short answer, no I'm not a mentee, but I would still be interested in becoming a MOTU, still.
[07:21] <mase_wk> dholbach: ok thanks.
[07:35] <micahg1> ScottK: you wouldn't happen to still be up, would you?
[08:23] <logari81> I am looking for documentation on:
[08:23] <logari81> /usr/share/python-support/python-foo.public
[08:23] <logari81> I think it is something new in the last version of dh_pysupport
[08:23] <logari81> is it right?
[08:26] <POX> logari81: /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz (what's not there, you should not touch)
[10:14] <surfzoid> Hi, i have finally build deb successfully, now i add this source in synaptic source in ubuntu ? http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/xUbuntu_9.04/
[10:14] <surfzoid> ** how
[10:15] <directhex> surfzoid, deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/xUbuntu_9.04/ ./
[10:15] <directhex> surfzoid, i think
[10:16] <surfzoid> ha yes i dont think about ./, the proble was amd64-binary :-)
[10:16] <directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:~/Desktop/mitter-0.4.5$ apt-cache policy monoosc | grep Candidate
[10:16] <directhex>   Candidate: <IP_ADDRESS>
[10:16] <directhex> seems to work
[10:17] <surfzoid> directhex: work like a charm :-)
[10:24] <surfzoid> directhex: again :-), the repository is added without error, but i don't see my soft in synaptic
[10:25] <directhex> surfzoid, synaptic's always been a bit funny for me. can't make any suggestions
[10:27] <Laney> did you reload the index? (I think that's synaptic terminology)
[10:29] <surfzoid> i used the refresh cache/aviabe pkg function
[10:29] <surfzoid> hum, the update tool see some pkg of my repo !!
[10:34] <surfzoid> seem to be an author problem, pkg are not authentified !! what can i do ?
[10:57] <surfzoid> directhex: I'm confuse, my deb are now build, but when i install MonoOSC it don't install SyntaxHighlighting, after, the SyntaxHighlighting.dll and MonoOBSFramework.dll are not register in the gac, if i look at the mono build deb file, it have only the dsc one, and it work ....
[10:57] <surfzoid> how i register the dll in the gac and how the dep list is made !!
[10:58] <directhex> surfzoid, there's a helper script in the cli-common-dev package, which you should build-depend on, to insert GAC-related things into a package's postinst
[10:58] <directhex> surfzoid, adding dh_installcligac to the "install" rule in debian/rules will install any assemblies listed in debian/packagename.installcligac into the GAC when the package is installed
[11:00] <surfzoid> build-depend is not only the build requiere but also the requiere ?
[11:01] <j_20091> hello all
[11:01] <j_20091> i am looking for an mentor
[11:02] <directhex> surfzoid, Build-Depends are listed in debian/control as the packages which the compilation machine needs to install in order to compile the packages. as opposed to Depends, which specify things which should be installed automatically for the binary package to work for the end user
[11:02] <surfzoid> oki
[11:03] <directhex> surfzoid, usually for mono packages you can autogenerate the binary dependencies using "dh_clideps" in the "binary" rule in debian/rules, which will expand ${cli:Depends} in debian/control with auto-detected dependencies
[11:24] <directhex> maco, you even got a personal mention from Mikee! lucky you! ¬_¬
[11:25] <directhex> he can't spell though
[13:10] <ari-tczew> hello, I'm looking sponsor for universe to 2 bugs
[13:17] <porthose>  ari-tczew https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[13:31]  * mok0 just upgraded his workstation to karmic. That was a harrowing experience
[14:21] <MaikB78> Hello
[14:22] <MaikB78>  Am I correct that debian packages build from svn trunk's are meant to define the get-orig-source rule to checkout(actually export) and tar.gz the trunk?
[14:22] <ScottK> Yes
[14:22] <MaikB78> ok
[14:22] <MaikB78> but how to do it with cdbs?
[14:23] <MaikB78> I came across this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=494141
[14:23] <MaikB78> which gives me the impression cdbs doesn't work with the get-orig-source hook
[14:24] <joaopinto> MaikB78, it does, just not as expected, from any dir
[14:25] <MaikB78> joaopinto: I fear I didn't get what exactly you mean.  Are there examples around?
[14:26] <MaikB78> I did this stuff a lot in gentoo and arch.  I'd love to get it work on ubuntu/debian
[14:27] <MaikB78> by example I mean:  Which if the *~svn1234 packages are using cdbs?
[14:28] <bdrung_> doko: do you have eclipse already uploaded?
[14:28] <joaopinto> MaikB78, read the bug details, you can have a get-orig-source with cdbs however it will not work when invoked out of the source tree
[14:28] <doko> bdrung_: yes, but we can still update
[14:29] <bdrung_> doko: did you grab it from the git repo or from the ppa?
[14:29] <doko> bdrung_: ppa
[14:29] <MaikB78> joaopinto: will, thx again!
[14:30] <bdrung_> doko: did you adjust the changelog?
[14:30] <doko> bdrung_: what do you mean?
[14:31] <doko> bdrung_: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-October/010369.html
[14:31] <bdrung_> doko: did you upload it with -0~ppa1?
[14:32] <bdrung_> doko: fyi, i can upload to universe, too
[14:32] <doko> bdrung_: ok, the next uploads are yours!
[14:34] <bdrung_> doko: which value does DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU have on lpia?
[14:35] <doko> i686
[14:35] <doko> bdrung_: I did attach a patch to my email
[14:36] <bdrung_> doko: yes, saw it. that's why i asked
[14:37] <bdrung_> doko: we have only i386 and amd64 machines and no access to others.
[14:38] <bdrung_> doko: the main discussions are in #debian-java and some are in #eclipse-linux
[14:38] <doko> bdrung_: I know
[14:39] <ScottK> bdrung_: Canonical employees have access to porter boxes in other archs.  sistpoty|work or siretart may be able to arrange MOTU access to Sparc.
[14:42] <sistpoty|work> doko: btw, thanks a lot for working on maven! :)
[14:43] <doko> sistpoty|work: I won't write the FFe's .. so either you find somebody to approve, or we won't make it. also I didn't check yet for other deps of the packages listed
[14:44] <doko> sistpoty|work: so better pester ScottK & co ;)
[14:44] <sistpoty|work> doko: ScottK just gave an ack for the FFe ;)
[14:45] <doko> ScottK: any plans with xz-utils? else I'd like to upload the fix for the data corruption
[14:45] <bdrung_> doko: fix applied, thanks.
[14:47] <ScottK> doko: Please fix that.
[14:48] <ScottK> We looked at updating to beta 9, but it was just to get that fix, so if you can just do the bug fix, that's better.
[14:53] <MaikB78> right now I'm looking at kile's packaging scripts where it seems uscan is used via debian/watch for the svn checkout of the original sources.  Is there a nice wiki page about uscan?
[14:56] <surfzoid> directhex: make: dh_installcligac: Command not found ?
[14:57] <directhex> surfzoid, it's in cli-common-dev
[14:57] <surfzoid> so in to add in dep buil
[14:58] <surfzoid> thanks
[14:58] <MaikB78> I guess this is the right one for uscan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
[15:13] <maco> directhex: yes i know
[15:14] <maco> directhex: on one blog i replied to him "If you can't learn to spell my name, AT LEAST learn to copy and paste it!"
[15:14] <directhex> maco, seems a bit of a knob, tbh
[15:14] <arand> What are the policies for priority of security updates, there was someone who asked why a security update could be priority:low and I became curious about that as well...
[15:15] <maco> directhex: he has a TON of fake names, by the way
[15:15] <maco> directhex: i'm pretty sure you hit a fake one
[15:15] <directhex> maco, he's rather slippery. tor doesn't help.
[15:16] <maco> directhex: PM?
[15:16] <directhex> hm? oh, yes, getting a bit offtopic
[15:16] <jdstrand> arand: are you referring to the 'urgency' field in the changelog?
[15:18] <slacker_nl> yeah, what about that field, it is always "low"
[15:18]  * slacker_nl is curious as well
[15:18] <arand> jdstrand: not perfectly sure to be honest, I would think so.
[15:19] <jdstrand> it means nothing in Ubuntu. it is used in Debian to prioritize builds iirc
[15:19] <slacker_nl> aha
[15:19] <slacker_nl> why doesn't ubuntu use it? Is it not handy to b eable to prioritize builds?
[15:20] <jdstrand> we have a different build system
[15:20] <jdstrand> security builds are given the highest priority
[15:20] <james_w> it's not buildds as such, but testing migration
[15:20] <directhex> urgency is mostly for unstable->testing isn't it?
[15:20] <james_w> and we don't have a "testing" suite
[15:20] <directhex> aha, thought so. HIGH FIVE!
[15:21] <slacker_nl> ahh, k
[15:21] <jdstrand> james_w: interesting-- so that field was introduced when 'testing' first came about?
[15:21] <jdstrand> what was that... wodody?
[15:21] <james_w> I believe so
[15:21] <jdstrand> woody
[15:22] <jdstrand> cool
[15:22] <james_w> it may be used for builds as well, but that's not it's main purpose
[15:22]  * jdstrand learned something new :)
[15:22] <james_w> it is in fact used for build priorities in Ubuntu, but no-one ever sets it
[15:22] <maco> haha
[15:22] <directhex> urgency=OMG
[15:22] <jdstrand> james_w: I was always told it was ignored in Ubuntu. when did this change?
[15:22] <slacker_nl> hehehe
[15:22] <arand> jdstrand: hmm, yea, and it looks like that string is removed in jaunty update manager anyways...
[15:22] <james_w> and you're only talking a matter of hours at the most
[15:23] <james_w> jdstrand: no idea
[15:23] <sistpoty|work> directhex: urgency=EMERGENCY :P
[15:23]  * jdstrand considers letting james_w field this sorts of questions
[15:23] <jdstrand> file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Urgency
[15:23] <jdstrand> that should've been http...
[15:24] <arand> Yea, launchpad help says it will effect build priority, but by a minuscule bit iirc
[15:24] <jdstrand> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Urgency
[15:24] <jdstrand> and there you go:
[15:24] <jdstrand> 36
[15:24] <jdstrand> Other urgency values are supported with configuration changes in the archive software but are not used in Debian. The urgency affects how quickly a package will be considered for inclusion into the testing distribution and gives an indication of the importance of any fixes included in the upload. Emergency and critical are treated as synonymous.
[15:25] <james_w> we should at least have it so that PPAs with urgency=emergency always score below main archive builds, so that can't DoS Ubuntu
[15:25] <arand> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
[15:25] <directhex> james_w, how about urgency=prettyplease where a PPA gets >archive priority due to politeness?
[15:25] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:25] <arand> low-5 med-10 high-15 emergency-20
[15:26] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[15:26] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
[15:26] <arand> But then the priority has nothing to do with the contents of the package? Only with the build priority?
[15:27] <jdstrand> interesting. I am pretty sure that is new (at least from when I was told)
[15:27]  * jdstrand wonders if one used '-security' in their PPA if the build score would be 6000
[15:29] <bdrung_> doko: we need an updated cdt, too.
[15:29] <arand> james_w: "There are separate build queues for distributions and PPAs." ( https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores ) Does that already solve the DoS problem?
[15:30] <james_w> probabl
[15:30] <doko> bdrung_: yes
[15:30] <jdstrand> arand, james_w: there are official builders for Ubuntu that are separate from PPA builders
[15:30] <bdrung_> doko: is there someone, who maintains it?
[15:30] <jdstrand> it is designed so one can't does Ubuntu via a PPA builders
[15:31] <jdstrand> s/does/DoS/
[15:39] <doko> bdrung_: no, just synced from debian
[15:43] <MaikB78> Am I right that uscan doesn't know how to extract a tar.gz from a git repo?
[15:46] <ari-tczew> if you've got "debian  uupdate" in debian/watch, then uscan can extract file
[15:48] <MaikB78> ok, I'll read the man page on uupdate
[15:49] <joaopinto> I am puzzled about apparmor-profiles, it's on universe but maintaned by coredevs, is that expected ?
[15:49] <joaopinto> aren't all universe packages MOTU maintained ?
[15:49] <ari-tczew> dunno
[15:54] <sistpoty|work> joaopinto: source is in main, maybe some archive inconsistency
[15:55] <MaikB78> ari-tczew: I confused by this get-orig-source vs uscan (debian/watch) business regarding fetching sources from the upstream VCS.
[15:55] <MaikB78> It there a golden way to do it?
[15:56] <ari-tczew> I prefer to updating packages manually, so I can't help you now.
[15:56] <joaopinto> sistpoty|work, ah ok, the binary is on universe
[15:57] <MaikB78> mkay
[15:57] <MaikB78> ari-tczew: thx
[16:03] <joaopinto> sistpoty|work, should I file a bug report about it ?
[16:03] <kees> jdstrand: that's an interesting thought.
[16:04] <sistpoty|work> joaopinto: no need to. afaict archive-admins have tools to detect such inconsistencies and fix them
[16:04] <joaopinto> ok
[16:04] <sistpoty|work> (so they're at least aware of it)
[16:05] <ari-tczew> sistpoty: maybe you know what about epiphany-gecko? is it no longer support by karmic? only -webkit?
[16:05] <sistpoty|work> ari-tczew: no idea about epiphany, sorry
[16:06] <ari-tczew> yhym so what the persion who know?
[16:06] <sebner> ari-tczew: it has been ported to -webkit by GNOME folks. gecko = dead
[16:07] <ari-tczew> I need info whether I should support gecko on webkit
[16:07] <ari-tczew> yhym so I should support webkit
[16:08] <ari-tczew> sebner: are you know that debian too drop support for gecko?
[16:08] <sebner> ari-tczew: unstable yes, testing no
[16:09] <ari-tczew> OK ;-)
[16:09] <ari-tczew> thnx
[16:11] <ari-tczew> who knows about forwarding packages to Debian?
[16:11] <ari-tczew> non-maintainer-upload vs new upstream version...
[16:32] <ari-tczew> .
[16:40] <surfzoid> directhex: me again :-), where are the rules for "make: *** No rule to make target `dh_clideps', needed by `binary'.  Stop"  ?
[16:41] <surfzoid> or perhaps i put it at the bad place :-/
[16:42] <joaopinto> surfzoid, you are missing a tab, to put inside the rule
[16:43] <surfzoid> hum i put it in the rule file like that : binary: binary-indep binary-arch dh_clideps
[16:45] <surfzoid> joaopinto: ^ i think i just understand , it was in the rule "binary-arch" i must add it :-)
[16:54] <Laney> what happens to motu-council after archivereorg?
[17:13] <ari-tczew> kees: are you here?
[17:13] <kees> ari-tczew: yup
[17:15] <ari-tczew> could you tell me what we can't get drupal 5.2.0 into karmic? why only small patches?
[17:16] <kees> ari-tczew: from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule we are in "FeatureFreeze".  If you want to get 5.2.0 into karmic, you'd need to follow the exception process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[17:18] <ari-tczew> so debdiff with small patches are easier get into karmic?
[17:18] <ari-tczew> I can prepare it
[17:19] <kees> ari-tczew: correct; if they are limited bug-fix patches, it's easy to upload
[17:20] <ari-tczew> I'll include only patches fixing critical security vulnerability
[17:24] <ari-tczew> anyone knows what about maven?
[17:24] <ari-tczew> any news?
[18:05] <directhex> woo woo
[18:52] <randomaction> thanks for merging hugin guys
[20:30] <funkyHat> I've got a fix for bug #444750 but there are a few other obvious keyboard shortcuts that are missing. Should I just fix them and add them to the same patch, or file a separate bug?
[20:31] <joaopinto> funkyHat, I am not a MOTU, but mu oppinion is a single bug, to reduce administrative work, assuming you use standard bindings which are not subject of debate :P
[20:35] <fabrice_sp_> funkyHat, agree with joaopinto
[20:35] <chrisccoulson> funkyHat - if there are others missing and you can fix them easily, then please do it all in one bug :)
[20:36] <funkyHat> Ok, I will add ^X, ^A, ^Q, ^W, ^O and ^P then, hehe
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[20:39] <Laney> please send the fixes upstream too
[20:39] <funkyHat> Will do
[20:42] <micahg> ScottK: kvpnc built fine with debhelper kde disabled
[21:02] <jbernard_> fabrice_sp_: I posted an update for bug #443241
[21:04] <av`> fabrice_sp_, I don't think adding a patch system is bad
[21:05] <av`> fabrice_sp_, patching the files that way will make losing the changes at the next upstream release, plus it will be harder for the next uploader to catch the changes
[21:06] <av`> fabrice_sp_, saying the debdiff looks bigger is not a good motivation to reject a patch system IMO
[21:06] <jbernard_> you guys tell me, i have patches for both solutions
[21:06] <av`> fabrice_sp_, making the patch and forwarding it to debian is the way to go
[21:07] <av`> jbernard_, this is my personal opinion, fabrice_sp_ might think it different ;)
[21:07] <jbernard_> both solutions are attached to the bug, so you're free to choose
[21:09] <Viking667> hm. What's "MOTU" stand for?
[21:10] <lesshaste> I need to apply a patch to X. Is there a simple guide to patching and recompiling X for ubunt
[21:10] <lesshaste> u
[21:13] <geser> Viking667: Masters Of The Universe
[21:13] <Viking667> lol. Right. Kind of makes sense in a warped kind of way.
[21:50] <fabrice_sp_> jbernard_, av` I already had that discussion, and it's generally prefered not to add a patch system. It's general consensus.
[21:50] <av`> fabrice_sp_, we are not doing NMUs here
[21:51] <fabrice_sp_> av`, I know
[21:51] <fabrice_sp_> but we are not also here to redo all the debian packaging
[21:51] <fabrice_sp_> as I said before, it's a general consensus
[21:51] <av`> fabrice_sp_, redo? two changes are a redo?
[21:52] <av`> fabrice_sp_, saying the debdiff looks bigger / increase the difference between debian and ubuntu is not true and it's not a good motivation either
[21:52] <fabrice_sp_> it clearly increase the diff with debian, so will make a bit more 'coplex' the merge, if any
[21:53] <av`> fabrice_sp_, the first suggestion should be forward it to debian to have it applied then
[21:53] <fabrice_sp_> when I was sponsored, this is what I've been told by several sponsors. It's not my invention
[21:53] <fabrice_sp_> or both: apply in Ubuntu, and also forward
[21:54] <fabrice_sp_> it's just a matter of taste
[21:54] <av`> fabrice_sp_, having a package that will show changes to the source won't be the best to merge anyway
[21:54] <av`> moreover if it's not the only change and if the changelog is not well documented
[21:55] <av`> someone can mess everything up
[21:55] <fabrice_sp_> a debdiff will contains the same line, but in a different way
[21:55] <av`> fabrice_sp_, how do I know that a particular change to the source fixes Bug xx or Bug xxx?
[21:55] <av`> everything will be mixed up
[21:55] <fabrice_sp_> most of the time, Debian maintainer already did changes in the source
[21:56] <fabrice_sp_> I don't remember if it's the case of this particular package
[21:56] <av`> saying most of the case don't solve the problem
[21:56] <fabrice_sp_> you can mix up also everything with a 'bad' patch
[21:56] <av`> fabrice_sp_, as far as a developer review a patch is hard
[21:57] <fabrice_sp_> I personally prefer to review 5 lines, instead of 100
[21:57] <av`> fabrice_sp_, if you modify the source, the same lines will appear on a patch
[21:57] <fabrice_sp_> as I told you before, this is a general consensus, and not only my personal view
[21:57] <av`> with like 3-4 lines more for the rules/control
[21:57] <fabrice_sp_> and the rules
[21:57] <fabrice_sp_> and README.source
[21:58] <av`> readme.source? would you add a that with a patch system which is quilt or dpatch?
[21:58] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: thnx for sponsoring hugin, but what about kadu?
[21:58] <fabrice_sp_> in the case of that bug report, the first debdiff is 190 lines long
[21:58] <stefanlsd> av`: i guess one of the reason is that in the general case the 'maintainer' is in debian. he has the right to employ or not employ a patch system as he sees fit
[21:58] <fabrice_sp_> according to policy 3.8.3, yes
[21:59] <av`> stefanlsd, I agree, but do you think the best choice is to patch sources directly?
[21:59] <fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, it's a sync, so it has to be perfomed by archive admin, even if I acked it
[21:59] <av`> fabrice_sp_, there are some discussions to remove it for quilt / dpatch already ;)
[21:59] <stefanlsd> av`: you could send him a patch to add a patch system, but he might not choose to use it. if he doesnt use it, we have a delta between debian and us which is even more painful to maintain
[22:00] <fabrice_sp_> of course, the change has to be sent to Debian
[22:00] <av`> stefanlsd, well no, in the case he adds a patch system it means out patches are now integrated
[22:00] <av`> stefanlsd, so we can directly sync
[22:00] <fabrice_sp_> but only the change/patch, not everything, so submittodebian makes a cleaner job
[22:00] <av`> stefanlsd, we wouldnt need to change the patch system, if all patches are integrated
[22:01] <av`> stefanlsd, we simply drop the delta
[22:01] <fabrice_sp_> in this case, Debian does not have a patch system
[22:01] <stefanlsd> av`: yeah, i realise this, but you assuming the maintainer wants to use the patch system
[22:01] <fabrice_sp_> if you want to sponsor the patch system version, you can
[22:02] <fabrice_sp_> I mean, I'm not the only one sponsoring things :-)
[22:02] <av`> stefanlsd, he is free to choose whatever he wants
[22:02] <av`> stefanlsd, but if our changes are integrated into debian we drop the delta anyway
[22:02] <av`> stefanlsd, so again no point in patching the source
[22:02] <fabrice_sp_> wih or without patch system
[22:02] <fabrice_sp_> it's the same
[22:02] <av`> fabrice_sp_, no, don't wanna steal your work :)
[22:03] <fabrice_sp_> av`, which work :-)
[22:03] <av`> fabrice_sp_, feel free to upload, I alwais use patch systems, so I was trying to know why you told him to patch the sources directly ;)
[22:03] <fabrice_sp_> I'm scared by the ore than 1000 packages that still FTBFS...
[22:03]  * av` too
[22:04] <fabrice_sp_> that's what I did before Daneil, and others sponsors told menot to do so
[22:04] <stefanlsd> av`: yeah, i'd say, until he does, stick to whatever is currently being used. if he doesnt integrate it, we have much more work on our hands as the diffs look completely different now...
[22:04] <stefanlsd> there is also some really good arguments against patch systems (i cant argue them tho)
[22:04] <av`> stefanlsd, but what would you do if there are more than 'one fix' to apply?
[22:04] <av`> stefanlsd, I have 10 fixes around the code and I wanna apply them
[22:04] <fabrice_sp_> AFAIK, most core dev are against patch systems :-)
[22:05] <stefanlsd> and i think when workflows are using vcs like bzr, then we def dont want them
[22:05] <av`> stefanlsd, then the next merger would start being crazy trying to get what the previous uploader did
[22:05] <av`> stefanlsd, and to find out which fix is the one related to the foo.h or bar.c files
[22:05] <stefanlsd> looking at diffs with patches in is also very confusing (but maybe thats just me)
[22:05] <fabrice_sp_> in that case, it would cleaner, you're right, but if your 10 fixes fixes the same problem, they would be in the same patch anyway.
[22:06] <fabrice_sp_> all rely on the changelog, yes
[22:06]  * fabrice_sp_ is confused by diff with patches, and all that +-+-
[22:06] <stefanlsd> not just me :)
[22:06] <fabrice_sp_> no :-)
[22:07] <fabrice_sp_> have to go to have some rest. Bye :-)
[22:07] <av`> cya, have fun! :)
[22:07] <fabrice_sp_> thanks :-)
[22:07] <av`> np
[22:07] <fabrice_sp_> and if you want, freetalk is waiting for you ;-)
[22:10] <jbernard_> what is the consensus here? I have several FTBFS patches, but the diffs all rely on the outcome of this discussion
[22:10] <av`> jbernard_, fabrice gonna take care of it :)
[22:11] <jbernard_> but in general, ubuntu prefers modifying upstream as apposed to introducing a patch system?
[22:11] <jbernard_> or vise versa?
[22:12] <stefanlsd> jbernard_: i believe the consensus is 'stick to what the package currently uses'. so if it uses quilt, do quilt patches, if it patches source, just patch source.
[22:13] <stefanlsd> av`: you guys are welcome to take this up on the motu mailing list for input from all motu's
[22:13] <jbernard_> and the case where upstream is still pristine but no patch system is present?
[22:13] <av`> stefanlsd, the problem is when there's nothing set yet e.g when there are no patches
[22:13] <geser> jbernard_: if no patches are applied on the package you might add a patch system
[22:14] <geser> just make sure you don't end with a mix of quilt/dpatch patches and other patches applied directly
[22:14] <jbernard_> yep, this was the case with freetalk
[22:15] <stefanlsd> yeah. also for packages that are  -0ubuntuX (maintained by ubuntu), if there is none, you can make the call.
[22:16] <jbernard_> so the consensus seems to be that adding the patch system was the correct call
[22:16] <jbernard_> (in this case)
[22:16] <av`> stefanlsd, don't think mailing the MOTU list would change things, everyone can decide what to do as per package
[22:17] <ajmitch_> but as a group, there can be a general agreement on what's done
[23:49] <micahg> aptitude is showing me that 539MB will be freed if I update grub from 0.97-29ubuntu57 to 0.97-29ubuntu58


[06:55] <pitti> Good morning
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[19:19] <Noskcaj> balloons, should we add a run-once testcase for re-installing, ideally changing desktop environments. it is very buggy in 12.10 in my experience
[20:00] <balloons> Noskcaj, what do you mean?
[20:03] <Noskcaj> balloons, when you have any *buntu installed and you rn the installer of any that have the same architecture and version(e.g.12.10) you get the option to re-install ubuntu
[20:03] <Noskcaj> we should be testing that
[20:04] <Noskcaj> first time i did it in 12.10 it froze, second time it removed stuff like apt and the touchpad
[20:05] <Noskcaj> this was xubuntu to lubuntu
[20:07] <balloons> Noskcaj, yes we have a re-install testcase now
[20:07] <balloons> not between flavors
[20:07] <Noskcaj> oh
[20:07] <balloons> let me find it
[20:07] <balloons> and yes.. it was added this cycle for that reason
[20:07] <balloons> bugs last cycle :-)
[20:08] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1471/info
[20:08] <Noskcaj> different thing, ht i'm talking about is meant to keep all your stuff
[20:08] <Noskcaj> *what
[20:09] <balloons> keeping home>
[20:09] <balloons> yes, that's in there
[20:09] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1470/info
[20:10] <Noskcaj> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu1210installation-large_003.jpg
[20:11] <Noskcaj> ooh, sorry, that is pretty much what i meant
[20:11] <Noskcaj> but i don't think manual partitioning is necessary and it should keep installed apps as well
[20:13] <balloons> what do you mean?
[20:13] <balloons> those two cases cover the scenarios I think
[20:13] <balloons> if they don't then, :-) We can make sure it's covered
[20:14] <Noskcaj> as you can see in the photo it is meant to keep apps, settings and any files the same
[20:15] <letozaf_> howdy
[20:15] <balloons> howdy
[20:15] <balloons> we're talking about the re-install stuff
[20:15] <balloons> the testcases for it
[20:16] <letozaf_> oh! what's the matter ?
[20:17] <Noskcaj> i will repost the basics for letozaf_ to see
[20:17] <Noskcaj> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu1210installation-large_003.jpg
[20:17] <Noskcaj>  i don't think manual partitioning is necessary and it should keep installed apps, setting and files as well
[20:18] <Noskcaj> the current testcase is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1470/info
[20:19] <letozaf_> well I think the only way to be sure is to try it out on a VM
[20:20] <letozaf_> have you guys already tried it?
[20:20] <Noskcaj> nope, i just know its really buggy in 12.10
[20:20] <Noskcaj> first time i did it in 12.10 it froze, second time it removed stuff like apt and the touchpad. this was xubuntu to lubuntu
[20:20] <letozaf_> buggy? where?
[20:20] <Noskcaj> so i did a clean install
[20:21] <Noskcaj> i think swapping desktop environments may have done it
[20:23] <letozaf_> Now that I think about it saturday I carried out this test and it was ok
[20:23] <Noskcaj> did you have any programs installed, or changed settings?
[20:23] <Noskcaj> and was that just ubuntu to ubuntu
[20:24] <letozaf_> I started from a clean install, created a folder on the desktop and browsed a fiew sites
[20:24] <letozaf_> when I reinstalled like indicated in the testcase and rebooted
[20:24] <letozaf_> the file was still there and the browser's history too
[20:25] <balloons> sorry..
[20:25]  * balloons reads backlog
[20:25] <balloons> too many channels
[20:25] <letozaf_> :-D
[20:25] <Noskcaj> ok, so the testcase isn't quite covering everything
[20:25] <balloons> ok, so yes as letozaf_ said, Ire-install should work
[20:26] <balloons> Noskcaj, your saying if you have a true /home partition and you re-install it's not working for you?
[20:26] <balloons> that's something I do quite often actually
[20:26] <balloons> if I'm ever re-installing (say my main box), I just re-use my home
[20:26] <balloons> never had issues with it
[20:26] <letozaf_> I also often reinstall Ubuntu and keep my home
[20:27] <balloons> so the question is, what about the 2 testcases don't cover that scenario
[20:27] <balloons> or am I missing something, and you have a different scenario?
[20:27] <balloons> the switching flavors I don't believe should cause an issue, but I wouldn't do it via the re-install
[20:27] <letozaf_> if Noskcaj tells us the details we can try to reproduce his problem
[20:27] <balloons> manual partitioning preserving home should work
[20:28] <letozaf_> maybe there is something "strange" we do not know about, maybe he found  a new bug...
[20:29] <Noskcaj> so i had xubuntu on for maybe 2 months, many settings changed, apps added and 50gb of iso's and movies. and i have told you the rest already
[20:30] <Noskcaj> i will be back soon, need food
[20:30] <letozaf_> well I always reinstall Ubuntu  I never tried with xubuntu, maybe we could try to see if xbuntu behaves differently
[20:31] <balloons> I agree switching flavors via re-install might cause an issue
[20:31] <balloons> the question is, is it a "supported" idea or not
[20:31] <balloons> ok Noskcaj grab some chow, I'll be around
[20:31] <letozaf_> chow ?
[20:31] <letozaf_> we haven't got that in Itlay, I think ...
[20:32] <balloons> thought I'd try a new word for food..
[20:32] <balloons> see if letozaf_ got confused or not ;-p
[20:32] <letozaf_> google say's chow is a dog ... lol
[20:33] <balloons> lol
[20:33] <balloons> it's slang for food
[20:33] <balloons> in general..
[20:33] <letozaf_> yeah got it ... now!
[20:33] <balloons> it's pronounced like ciao
[20:33] <balloons> which is fun
[20:33] <letozaf_> oh! that's weired :-D
[20:34] <letozaf_> so when I say hallo to someone in Italian he might think I said food
[20:34] <letozaf_> well if he is english :)
[20:34] <letozaf_> I mean american or ozzy
[20:36] <balloons> haha
[20:36] <balloons> I think ciao is fairly well recognized by american english speakers
[20:37] <letozaf_> I was joking  :) just having fun
[20:42] <Noskcaj> letozaf_, its aussie
[20:44] <letozaf_> oh !!! sorry !!!
[20:44] <letozaf_> think I got confused with ozzy osbourne , maybe lol
[20:45] <Noskcaj> ok?
[20:45] <balloons> lol..
[20:45] <balloons> well, your from nz
[20:45] <balloons> we would call that land of oz
[20:45] <balloons> or perhaps ozzy
[20:46] <letozaf_> :)
[20:46] <Noskcaj> balloons, to all of that; WTF?
[20:46] <balloons> Noskcaj, I've no idea mate
[20:47] <balloons> lost in translation..
[20:47] <balloons> so your test issues
[20:47] <Noskcaj> just make the testcase include settings changes, extra apps and ideally desktop changes
[20:48] <Noskcaj> also remove the need for manual partitioning
[20:48] <balloons> so you want things added to the "make changes portion"
[20:48] <balloons> right now, it's about browsing history and installing some stuff I believe
[20:48] <balloons> suggestions for other things?
[20:48] <balloons> wallpaper?
[20:50] <letozaf_> it doesn't make any difference
[20:50] <Noskcaj> yeah, i hadn't thought of that, wallpaper, maybe conky on the desktop as i can see that causing issues
[20:50] <letozaf_> I mean that whatever change, there are so many ..
[20:50] <letozaf_> as long as the testcase doesn't become too long
[20:51] <Noskcaj> letozaf_, it won't at worst it will just become "run this script" then after the reinstall, "run another script
[20:51] <letozaf_> maybe we could install an application and change a setting and see if that is  still there after reboot
[20:51] <Noskcaj> so mearg automated testing and the iso's
[20:52] <Noskcaj> *merge
[21:01] <Noskcaj> and everyone goes silent for some reason
[21:02] <letozaf_> oh! sorry ...
[21:03] <letozaf_> ok the merge stuff sounds good
[21:03] <Noskcaj> i have a basic script made that need finishing by people who know stuff about the command line
[21:05] <Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1446068/ is my very basic attempt
[21:05] <letozaf_> let's see it, not sure I'm the right person to help, but never know...
[21:06] <Noskcaj> letozaf_, thanks, now i just need someone to confirm they are still there after the reinstall
[21:13]  * letozaf_ trying to see what I can do
[21:14] <Noskcaj> so you know youtube-dl is a tiny command line package for downloading videos off the internet, it is very easy to test the presence of
[21:18] <letozaf_> you mean you want to test it's presence by using it ?
[21:18] <letozaf_> I was thinking of checking if it still was installed
[21:18] <Noskcaj> that would be one way, i'm not entirely sure
[21:18] <Noskcaj> second idea is better
[21:19] <letozaf_> not sure I can change settings using command line
[21:19] <letozaf_> but I can check if a file created still exists
[21:19] <Noskcaj> either way, its a small program. which will help
[21:19] <Noskcaj> letozaf_, close enough. there must be some setting change-able
[21:20] <Noskcaj> maybe by editing a file?
[21:21] <letozaf_> no with if [ -f /tmp/file1 ] && [ -f /tmp/file2 ] && [ -f /tmp/file3 ] && [ -f /tmp/file4 ]
[21:21] <Noskcaj> i have to go now, i will leave xchat open to hear what people say
[21:21] <Noskcaj> and WTF is that
[21:22] <letozaf_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1446104/
[21:23] <Noskcaj_school> much better, that will help
[21:23] <Noskcaj_school> bye
[21:32] <balloons> sorry, had an interruption
[21:32] <balloons> had to be afk for a few
[21:33] <letozaf_> Noskcaj_school, I can do this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1446125/
[21:34] <letozaf_> do not know how to change settings using command line
[21:37] <balloons> letozaf_, that would work, but the files in /tmp, by design would no longer be there
[21:37] <letozaf_> yes you're right! forgot about reboot
[21:37] <balloons> because /tmp empties reboot
[21:37] <balloons> ;-)
[21:37] <letozaf_> so we will put them in /home
[21:37] <balloons> yes
[21:39] <letozaf_> do not know how to do the settings stuff, maye if we find some .config files to check  or something like that
[21:43] <letozaf_> I'm going to bed now guys... if you need,  send me an email I will read it tomorrow morning :-D
[21:43] <balloons> letozaf_, good night
[21:43] <balloons> not sure how the script idea works out, but if we want to use one, what you've done is an excellent sart
[21:43] <balloons> *start
[21:44] <letozaf_> balloons, thanks :)
[21:44] <letozaf_> good night!


[22:36] <Edward_Elric>  please helpme to vote
[22:36] <Edward_Elric> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/CursoPhp/index.php
[22:36] <Edward_Elric>  :D
[22:36] <Edward_Elric>  is about ubuntu


[00:30] <redderhs> anyone here compile mame before?
[00:31] <redderhs> I'm trying to apply a nonag/hi-score patch to the source. I am not sure how to do it and was wondering if any of you knew how.
[00:32] <redderhs> it's pretty simple to do in windows as there's tools to do all the work for you.
[00:46] <BWMerlin> I am having trouble getting a hdd to appear under lubuntu
[00:46] <BWMerlin> the hdd works fine and I can still boot to it (it contains my windows install which I was using up until yesterday) but for some reason lubuntu is not mounting it
[00:47] <BWMerlin> it shows up both under the disks utility and under gparted
[01:02] <holstein> redderhs: i usually try native apps in the default repos. then i look for a .deb ..then i might try a PPA https://launchpad.net/~c.falco/+archive/mame
[01:03] <holstein> !mount
[01:03] <holstein> BWMerlin: might be as simple as mounting it properly
[01:03] <holstein> BWMerlin: open a terminal and see that it is in "sudo fdisk -l"
[01:08] <BWMerlin> holstein: it is listed as sdc with sdc1
[01:12] <holstein> BWMerlin: so you follow the mount procedure,and try and mount it properly from the commandline, and you'll either get it mounted, or see helpful output
[01:19] <BWMerlin> I got this error message mount: /dev/sdc1 is not a block device
[01:20] <BWMerlin> and when I try on sdc I get this error message mount: unknown filesystem type 'isw_raid_member'
[01:29] <holstein> BWMerlin: i would check the format.. maybe its not a format linux reads. looks like a raid drive
[01:29] <BWMerlin> it shouldn't be
[01:30] <BWMerlin> it was a very long time ago but I fresh installed it about a year ago onto a different motherboard
[01:30] <BWMerlin> so it should just be ntfs
[01:30] <BWMerlin> fdisk -l /dev/sdc says 2048   976771071   488384512    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
[01:33] <holstein> sudo mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc1 /media
[01:34] <holstein> i would confirm what it is... if you can see it in windows, look and see what it is...
[01:34] <BWMerlin> It is my Windows install
[01:35] <BWMerlin> still works as I was using up until yesterday
[01:35] <BWMerlin> I booted to it and ran a chkdsk on it as well and all is fine
[01:36] <BWMerlin> Error opening '/dev/sdc1': No such device or address
[01:36] <BWMerlin> Failed to mount '/dev/sdc1': No such device or address
[01:36] <BWMerlin> Either the device is missing or it's powered down, or you have
[01:36] <BWMerlin> SoftRAID hardware and must use an activated, different device under
[01:36] <BWMerlin> /dev/mapper/, (e.g. /dev/mapper/nvidia_eahaabcc1) to mount NTFS.
[01:36] <BWMerlin> Please see the 'dmraid' documentation for help.
[01:36] <holstein> BWMerlin: thats what it looks like to me.. a raid
[01:36] <BWMerlin> I wonder why it is in raid
[01:36] <holstein> BWMerlin: i dont know your windows configuration
[01:37] <BWMerlin> and it seems i don't either
[01:37] <holstein> !dmraid
[01:37] <holstein> that would be just too easy...
[01:37] <BWMerlin> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670463 here mentions I can use sudo dmraid -rE /dev/sdc  to clear the raid metadata
[01:37] <holstein> !info dmraid
[01:38] <holstein> what would i do? make another drive to "share" between windows and linux
[01:38] <holstein> i think you can break that windows install
[01:38] <holstein> i would just use dropbox or a USB stick
[01:38] <BWMerlin> I think I will boot into Windows one last time and shadow protect it
[01:38] <holstein> and next time, think and plan for sharing from the first
[01:39] <BWMerlin> then I can see about running the raid metadata cleaner
[01:39] <BWMerlin> I don't want to share
[01:39] <holstein> then why mount it?
[01:39] <BWMerlin> I just want to retrieve files when I need them
[01:39] <holstein> just boot the OS
[01:39] <holstein> if you want to "retrieve files" thats what i am implying by sharing
[01:40] <holstein> a windows/linux friendly partition labeled "data" for example
[01:40] <BWMerlin> thought you were implying that I would be booting both OS and copying files back and forth
[01:40] <holstein> nope.. a place that any OS can access... a USB stick.. or dropbox that just syncs up on both OS's
[01:41] <BWMerlin> I only really want to access saved configurations so I can copy them to lubuntu
[01:41] <BWMerlin> at this stage all going well I won't need to use Windows
[01:43] <holstein> im just suggesting ways you can access said data.. configs or whatever.. you drop them in dropbox, or sync them to a USB stick.. or have a friendly partition in common
[02:02] <DJRWolf> Trying to get a Toshiba Satellite U305-S7446 with Intel® PRO/Wireless 3945ABG wifi to connect. Wifi Radar does not get past the acquiring DHCP part. Suggestions?
[02:05] <holstein> i would try connecting to something without encryption to rule out a fat-finger password.. i would try the windows driver via ndisgtk.. i would try another version of the linux kernel which i usually do with live CD's
[02:06] <DJRWolf> ok, will do once I get a chance, thanks
[02:06] <DJRWolf> if anyone ealts has a suggestion before I leave channel, the more ideas the better :)
[02:07] <holstein> other that you making an error connecting, a different driver is really the only option
[02:07] <holstein> other than*
[02:50] <Ro> Hello, I am a musician. Could someone please give me a link or explain to me the advantages and drawbacks of making my audio realtime, and if I do chose to do so, tell me how to do it?
[02:50] <Ro> by the way I have an older computer
[02:51] <holstein> Ro: if you have an internal sound card and an old box, you wont get RT
[02:51] <holstein> you dont need RT anyways likely
[02:52] <holstein> if you do software synths and realtime effects, you need lower latency, otherwise, you dont
[02:52] <holstein> check #ubuntustudio or #opensourcemusicians
[02:52] <jude0> hi Ro
[02:52] <holstein> AVlinux is a great live audio distro as well
[02:53] <holstein> Ro: there is a lowlatency kernel in the default repos, that you can use with lubuntu
[02:53] <Ro> uhm, I am going to use a softsynth through wine
[02:53] <jude0> which softsynth out of curiosity
[02:54] <Ro> abox2, it is a really really awesome modular synth that I want to run inside jack
[02:54] <Ro> would you by any chance know how to do that?
[02:54] <jude0> jack always infuriated me
[02:54] <Ro> or should I go to one of those channels?
[02:54] <Ro> I need to learn how to use it.  Sorry I am not that familiar with jack
[02:55] <jude0> Ro: did you get all your driver issues figured out?
[02:55] <Ro> jude0, Yes I did. I just took the goddamn thing out, and now I have no problems; sailing on the onboard video
[02:56] <jude0> ha thats one solution
[02:56] <Ro> I think I have had a problem with it before back when my hard disk drive got smashed and I had only a livecd to run on
[02:57] <holstein> Ro: try and watch the language in the official support channels
[02:58] <holstein> Ro: http://jackaudio.org/
[02:58] <holstein> Ro: thats what i use with my firewire device
[02:58] <Ro> Yes, jack. I want to learn how to use it. I want to be able to connect every program I use to its own audio port so I can use it in abox
[02:58] <holstein> http://holstein.bandcamp.com/ was made with ubuntu and FOSS
[02:59] <Ro> so I can route it in abox*
[02:59] <Ro> Awesome, music :D
[02:59] <holstein> if you want to use windows software, i would use windows
[02:59] <jude0> i personally prefer just to midi pipe everything out to a hardware synth
[02:59] <holstein> JACK can route to hardware or software.. or both
[03:00] <Ro> Yes but I want to use windows and linux software together. I really want to try rosegarden and my next main daw, and I am really intrigued by all the standalone synths avalible for linux
[03:00] <holstein> Ro: RG is not great as a DAW
[03:00] <Ro> abox is the only one I need, and it is really extremely light
[03:00] <holstein> ardour3 is about to release and is in beta
[03:01] <holstein> most folks use qtractor or rosegarden with ardour2 now
[03:01] <holstein> and connect via JACK
[03:01] <holstein> JACK is the key
[03:01] <holstein> and decent hardware
[03:01] <holstein> Ro: i wouldnt expect to have much luck with wine and lowlatency
[03:01] <Ro> could I install asio on wine?
[03:02] <holstein> Ro: there is a project my friend runs called KXstudio #kxstudio http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/
[03:02] <holstein> Ro: he runs PPA's for ubuntu that can be used with any of the variants and tries to support supportable windows vst's
[03:02] <holstein> Ro: you can do what you like
[03:02] <holstein> Ro: im just telling you out of experience not to expect much
[03:03] <holstein> Ro: if you want to use windows software, use windows
[03:03] <holstein> can you get software to do what you want in linux? sure
[03:04] <Ro> then can you point me to a standalone modular synth that works well with jack, and is very powerful?
[03:04] <holstein> if i were you, i would download either ubuntustudio or avlinux and try them live
[03:04] <holstein> you can test JACK and all the software there and not change your computer
[03:04] <Ro> I do not have a DVD drive to use DVDs with
[03:04] <holstein> Ro: *everything* works well with jack
[03:05] <holstein> Ro: you cn boot with a USB
[03:05] <holstein> Ro: you dont have to take my suggestion... you can just install the ubunstudio software in lubuntu
[03:05] <holstein> Ro: you can open the package manager of your choise and search 'ubuntustudio' and install the things that dont deal with the theme
[03:05] <Ro> Hmmmm
[03:06] <holstein> then you can run the software in lxde.. you can install the lowlwatency kernel as well if you need/want it
[03:06] <Ro> is there ever any problems in linux when it comes to downloading things twice?
[03:06] <Ro> like oh say if I install jack twice by accident
[03:06] <holstein> Ro: thats what package management is about
[03:07] <Ro> cool
[03:07] <holstein> Ro: you cant have 2 things installed like that
[03:07] <holstein> i mean, you can, but you wont
[03:07] <Ro> so I shouldn't worry?
[03:07] <jude0> Ro, remember synaptic, start with that
[03:07] <Ro> right
[03:07] <holstein> http://wootangent.net/category/linux/ is my friend [lsd] in #opensourcemusicians who uses ubuntu for music creation.. as well as external synths as jude0 suggested
[03:08] <holstein> http://pneuman.bandcamp.com/
[03:08] <holstein> i dont do a lot of electronic music, but my friends do
[03:08] <Ro> I see, by the way I couldn't get your bandcamp to load, got a soundcloud or something?
[03:09] <holstein> i dont use soundcloud for that.. i use it for students mostly
[03:09] <Ro> you teach?
[03:10] <holstein> Ro: some.. i only have a few students right now
[03:10] <Ro> I see, very neat
[03:11] <Ro> what do you teach?
[03:11] <holstein> http://www.artofliferecords.com/open.html
[03:11] <holstein> Ro: bass, guitar... whatever i hae a few vocal students i teach theory and improv
[03:12] <Ro> wow, very cool.
[03:16] <Ro> heh, you have a pretty good sound
[03:17] <holstein> thanks.. we should carry this to the #lubuntu-offtopic or the #opensourcemusicians
[03:19] <Ro> indeed.
[03:19] <Ro> so what channel would be my best bet to try and find a standalone modular synth to my liking?
[03:24] <holstein> Ro: a music related one.. such as the one i suggested
[03:24] <holstein> Ro:  #opensourcemusicians ..you can try the lau one, but we have a lot of traffic in the OSM channel
[03:25] <Ro> thank you for all your help
[03:25] <holstein> Ro: cheers..
[03:25] <Ro> off onto the neverending quest for "that sound"
[03:31] <holstein> Ro: like most things, the journey is the destination
[07:09] <sunny_> Hi :-)
[07:09] <sunny_> I have just installed lubuntu and I have a couple of questions
[07:10] <sunny_> Can I somehow make the icons on my desktop bigger?
[07:10] <sunny_> How can I add the shut down and restart options to the desktop?
[07:11] <sunny_> Is there a way to remove things I don't need from lunching at startup to make the system boot faster?
[07:34] <sunny_> And can I remove the password thing that keeps popping?
[10:14] <ctrlz> Hi, how can i rotate the webcam in skype? I see it upside down. Lubuntu 12.10 x64 on asus u36sd here
[12:11] <tonycoos> \help
[12:11] <tonycoos> aw... wrong way. sorry!
[16:58] <lessshaste> how do I change the default app for word docs from abiword to libreoffice?
[17:10] <zleap> right click and select open with
[17:11] <zleap> then open with again and you get a list of apps in a dialogue box with a tick box at the bottom to set to default
[17:12] <zleap> lessshaste, is that helpful
[17:13] <lessshaste> zleap, so I need to save a word doc once to do that?
[17:13] <lessshaste> zleap, I am trying to get gmail to open word docs with libreoffice
[17:13] <lessshaste> zleap, how do I even open up a file browser? I am a terminal sort of guy :)
[17:14] <zleap> that method changes the default app you open  file with
[17:14] <zleap> i don't want to change things locally but i just rightclicked on a file .odt
[17:14] <lessshaste> ok cool.. so how do I open a file browser?
[17:15] <zleap> well from lxterminal type firefox
[17:16] <lessshaste> you use firefox as a file browser?
[17:17] <holstein> i would just open the document where you want it to be opened
[17:18] <holstein> if its a step of convenience you are looking for, try and notice when it is happeneing and elaborate as to what is happening and what you want to have happen
[17:18] <lessshaste> holstein, I would normally open it by clicking in gmail.. there I have no options and abiword opens
[17:18] <lessshaste> holstein, so I have been advised to save a word file and then right click from a file browser
[17:19] <lessshaste> holstein, I just wnt to know how to open a file browser to do this :)
[17:19] <holstein> lessshaste: i would open it from the menu... or just open a location
[17:20] <lessshaste> holstein, which app in the menu?
[17:20] <holstein> lessshaste: i dont have lubuntu running in front of me, but it should literally say "file browser"
[17:20] <holstein> lessshaste: its pcmanfm AFAIK
[17:20] <inductiveload> lessshaste: accessories->File Manager PcManFM
[17:21] <lessshaste> I think I need to install that
[17:21] <holstein> lessshaste: you can launch it ffrom the terminal too.. pcmanfm in a terminal
[17:21] <holstein> lessshaste: lubuntu ships with a file manager... ships with pcmanfm
[17:21] <lessshaste> nope it';s installed..
[17:21] <lessshaste> hmm
[17:21] <lessshaste> ah found it :)
[17:22] <holstein> you should be able to right click and mess with the defaults
[17:22] <holstein> OR, just navigate to the file you want to open from the software you want to use
[17:22] <lessshaste> thanks
[17:22] <lessshaste> v. helpful
[17:32] <inductiveload> lessshaste: you can bind the filetype to a default application with xdg-mime
[17:33] <lessshaste> thanks.. I am hoping the current method has worked
[17:35] <inductiveload> ok