[00:30] <bryceh> how do you get apport to force filing a bug report even if you don't have all the latest bits installed?
[00:31] <bryceh> nm, found it (rtfm bryce)
[00:42] <bryceh> hm, don't work
[00:48] <bryceh> pitti, APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES=true apport-cli -c /tmp/xserver-xorg-video-intel.2010-02-17_22\:31\:42.401787.crash does not let me file the bug
[00:52] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, isn't simple-scan already in Lucid? why would you need a ffe?
[00:52] <bryceh> hi rickspencer3
[00:53] <rickspencer3> hiya bryceh
[00:53] <rickspencer3> bryceh, seems like a plan is coming together for xorg + kernel bits?
[00:54] <bryceh> yeah, we still need to get apw's view on it, but I think we got a solid plan finally
[00:54] <seb128> bryceh, I think that's because you already got the crash report ready for upload
[00:55] <seb128> bryceh, the variable works if you didn't do the "report the bug" yet
[00:55] <rickspencer3> anywho ...
[00:55] <bryceh> seb128, basically I have the .crash file and want to post it to launchpad so I can see what info it's including
[00:55] <seb128> ie if the crash file doesn't have the stacktrace processed etc yet
[00:55] <bryceh> oh
[00:55] <seb128> ie before the bouncing bar work
[00:56] <seb128> so basically get your crash and run that command without using the ui auto opened
[00:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, new versions of softwares which are not purely bug fix updates need exceptions
[00:57] <bryceh> seb128, I'm trying to do this remotely because the machine's keyboard isn't working
[00:57] <Nafai> Is there a way to find out where in my source these warnings are coming from? http://paste.ubuntu.com/379439/
[00:57] <seb128> bryceh, well, if you get the crash report and run the command directly without doing anything else with it before that should work
[00:57] <bryceh> eh, I'll just upgrade the box to latest and reproduce the report
[00:58] <bryceh> heh
[00:58] <bryceh> bryce@blumonc:~$ ls /var/crash
[00:58] <bryceh> _usr_share_apport_apport.0.crash                           xserver-xorg-video-intel.2010-02-17_22:37:01.055233.crash
[00:59] <seb128> you crashed apport? ;-)
[00:59] <bryceh> guess so!
[00:59] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ffe requires "a new upstream version of a package" to get an exception.  I guess it depends how much you class Simple Scan as upstream
[01:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, non-bug-fix-only-version
[01:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, bug fix updates are fine
[05:39] <pitti> Good morning
[05:39] <pitti> robbiew_: libgudev is built by udev source
[05:40] <pitti> bryceh: hm, perhaps it's not an obsolete package, but a non-native one?
[06:25] <kenvandine> hey pitti, good morning
[06:26] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[06:26] <kenvandine> i shaved more off of gwibber :)
[06:26] <kenvandine> 200K
[06:26] <pitti> yay diets
[06:26] <kenvandine> removed icons we don't use
[06:26] <kenvandine> and split out the extra themes to a different package
[06:26] <kenvandine> no need to ship 9 themes :)
[06:26] <pitti> kenvandine: nobody uploaded your egenix splits yet?
[06:26] <kenvandine> nope
[06:26] <kenvandine> seb128 reviewed it
[06:27] <kenvandine> but i guess not uploaded
[06:27] <kenvandine> bug 523969 if you want to look at it :)
[06:28] <pitti> kenvandine: opening a tab, will do in a bit
[06:29] <kenvandine> thx!
[06:30] <pitti> kenvandine: can you forward the debdiff to Debian in the meantime, please?
[06:30] <kenvandine> sure
[06:31] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, both mtools and datetime are the same source? convenient
[06:31] <kenvandine> yup
[06:31] <pitti> urgh, yay for not using standard debhelper
[06:31] <pitti> kenvandine: thanks
[06:34] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah... it was an interesting package to mess with :)
[06:34] <kenvandine> but i just followed what they already did
[06:34] <kenvandine> movefiles.sh is an interesting approach
[06:34] <kenvandine> :)
[06:36] <pitti> kenvandine: right, that "urgh" wasn't directed at you
[06:37] <kenvandine> understand
[06:37] <kenvandine> i had a similar reaction when i first downloaded it :)
[06:46] <kklimonda> good morning
[06:51] <pitti> baptistemm: hm, I'm not sure what you mean -- why would any other process influence how bluez evaluates its options?
[07:10] <baptistemm> pitti, I don't know, The reporter sent a mail to the bluez mailing list and the developper said it was working for him, and asked if any component in ubuntu would influence the power preferences
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: what I feared: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/daily-live/current/
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: I think we need to cut some OO.o parts
[08:15] <didrocks> Guten Tag pitti, wie geht's?
[08:16] <pitti> hey didrocks, bonjour!
[08:16] <pitti> I'm a bit tired, but great
[08:16] <pitti> I got up at 6, the thought of my xorg blunder wouldn't let me sleep any longer :)
[08:16] <pitti> (all fixed now)
[08:16] <pitti> Xsession.d/* is now really streamlined
[08:16] <didrocks> ohoh, you didn't dream about it at least? :)
[08:16] <pitti> (and it only took 4 package uploads..)
[08:16] <pitti> didrocks: no, only took me an hour to get to sleep :)
[08:17] <didrocks> rah…
[08:17] <pitti> but that's fine, TGIF :)
[08:17] <didrocks> how was your concert?
[08:17] <pitti> oh, it was actually an iceskating performance
[08:17] <pitti> "Holiday on Ice"
[08:17] <pitti> artistic ice skating
[08:18] <didrocks> sweet, I know it even if I never attended to their show
[08:18] <pitti> great show, great costumes, nice music, and gorgeous light effects
[08:18] <pitti> didrocks: how are you? survived the release day yesterday?
[08:18] <didrocks> I can imagine. Glad you like it :)
[08:18] <didrocks> well, they release late.
[08:19] <didrocks> and as I'm still ill, it was not a very good experience :)
[08:19] <didrocks> but well, new release ready
[08:19] <pitti> urgh, so you are in the middle of the cold?
[08:19] <pitti> didrocks: take it light then
[08:19] <didrocks> exactly. I'll try to not make something too brain-damaged today :)
[08:20] <didrocks> so, first fix this CD size
[08:20] <didrocks> pitti: the OVERSIZE file is always empty? It's just an indicator that the CD is oversized?
[08:20] <pitti> didrocks: exactly
[08:21] <didrocks> ok, so, in that can, most of the time you look at the seed and look at what can be moved away, right?
[08:21] <pitti> right
[08:21] <didrocks> (I see OOo draw is a good candidate)
[08:21] <pitti> didrocks: it's also helpful to have a rather clean chroot/pbuilder login
[08:21] <pitti> and compare "apt-get install" download sizes
[08:21] <pitti> to see how much dropping a particular thing will buy
[08:22]  * pitti goes back to *nnnng* speed ups
[08:22] <didrocks> pitti: hum, is it possible to install from the seed all softwares and try autoremove in the pbuilder ,
[08:22] <didrocks> or you just try some kind of heuristic to see what overlap or not?
[08:23] <pitti> didrocks: no, just compare "install oo.o-writer oo.o-calc oo.o-draw" against "install oo.o-writer oo.o-calc"
[08:23] <didrocks> ok, trying that :)
[08:23] <didrocks> thanks
[08:23] <pitti> (no need to actually install, of course)
[08:24] <didrocks> right, just have the space took on disk :)
[08:24] <pitti> didrocks: no, not on disk
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: look at the download size (.deb size)
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: squashfs is compressed
[08:25] <pitti> which is pretty similar to the .deb size
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: for "normal" .debs it's almost identical
[08:25] <didrocks> pitti: oh ok, I didn't know it was corresponding approx to an ar archive
[08:25] <pitti> for OO.o the .deb size is a little smaller, since OO.o uses lzma
[08:25] <didrocks> noted
[08:39] <seb128> hey there
[08:40] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:40] <didrocks> seb128: how is your cold?
[08:40] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:40] <seb128> still there but it's not a really annoying one this time
[08:40] <seb128> no blocked nose or anything
[08:41] <seb128> you?
[08:41] <didrocks> ok, a light one so :) You'll be able to enjoy your day off
[08:41] <seb128> yeah
[08:41] <didrocks> hum, not very good I'm afraid. I think the week-end will be a slackering week-end in my bed :)
[08:41] <seb128> still working a bit this morning
[08:41] <seb128> then I will be off for lunch and enjoy my afternoon
[08:41]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[08:41]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[08:48] <didrocks> urgh, we still install firefox-3.5 in addition to firefox-3.6 on netbook (it's only 0.1MB of additional download, but still). I have to fix also webfav to work with 3.6
[08:55] <pitti> didrocks: shouldn't we just seed "firefox"?
[08:55] <pitti> hey seb128, good morning
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: wern't you supposed to have a holiday today?
[08:56] <didrocks> pitti: for me, right, I just want to see why there is this "germinate workaround" before removing it
[08:56] <pitti> argh, I have gconf-sanity-check back; I thought we disabled that?
[09:02] <seb128> pitti, as said before I'm around a bit in the morning then away for lunch and afternoon
[09:02] <seb128> will likely going to a spa or something this afternoon
[09:02] <seb128> I still want to deal with some aftermatch of yesterday's update today
[09:02] <seb128> after the "all indicator message app are crashing" from yesterday
[09:03] <seb128> and gtk csd makes apps slugish and use cpu
[09:03] <seb128> pitti, btw I uploaded libgnome-keyring to NEW if you can have a look
[09:03] <seb128> pitti, I added the COPYING.GPL and upstream fixed that to git yesterday
[09:03] <pitti> ah, thanks
[09:03] <seb128> I guess it's ok until next upload?
[09:04] <seb128> the code is basically a split of what was in gnome-keyring before I don't think it needs mir review
[09:04] <pitti> right, no MIR necessary, just a new upstream version
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:09] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
[09:09] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:09] <seb128> how are you?
[09:09] <pitti> chrisccoulson: btw, I'm taking another look at your 56gconfd-helper and "26_preload_sources.patch gconf"
[09:09] <didrocks> pitti: after having look at the entire thing, I'm a bit concerning for the nebook image. I can only see this candicate: firefox 3.5 (wanting for lool to answer an only 0.1MB) and openoffice.org-help-en-us, and maybe computer-janitor-gtk?). openoffice.org-help-en-us seems to take approx 5MB, so that could work and enable us to add the music store plugin
[09:09] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[09:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: seems it might get late honours :) and we might use  it after all
[09:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: after the latest optimizations, it now nicely squeezes into the free CPU slot before mutter starts
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> that sounds good then!
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> that's not a good start to the day - i'm out of coffee again!
[09:11] <seb128> oh?
[09:11] <lool> didrocks: sorry, what's with firefox 3.5?
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> i should have got some on the way to work ;)
[09:11] <lool> didrocks: Oh the seed thing, just saw it
[09:11] <lool> This was a subtle one, let me recall
[09:11] <pitti> chrisccoulson: none in the office any more?
[09:11] <didrocks> lool: right :)
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - there is some other coffee in the office, but everybody else drinks instant coffee
[09:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you don't have a starbucks nearby? ;-)
[09:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100219-1.png is normal lucid
[09:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100219-1-earlygconf.png is with your two gconf changes
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i suppose i could drive in to redditch and get a starbucks ;)
[09:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: look how the CPU usage nicely increases right after the last red bar (desktop startup)
[09:14] <seb128> pitti, early gconf uses cpu for some 0.5s extra though
[09:14] <pitti> seb128: right, but nothing else is in that slot
[09:15] <pitti> so we might just as well start it when we have a bottleneck (gnome-session and nothing else) anyway
[09:15] <pitti> instead of starting it later where we already have enough waiting processes?
[09:15] <pitti> seb128: or do you mean it uses 0.5 s _more_ when you start it early?
[09:16] <lool> didrocks: Right, so in theory this could be considered a germinate bug, but abrowser gets considered despite firefox being listed earlier (which will eventually pull firefox-3.5 in karmic); it was enough to list firefox-3.5 anywhere in the seed to get this fixed, so that's what I did
[09:16] <lool> didrocks: Sadly, we need to bump this workaround with each firefox update
[09:16] <seb128> pitti, the earlygconf is 11.5s the other one 11s
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i just noticed that. how accurate are those markers?
[09:16] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: anyway, I'm currently experimenting with something else still; I'm not firm yet that the gconf change is optimal
[09:16] <lool> didrocks: I'm not sure whether cjwatson had particular plans to address this, perhaps we will just have to live with the bug
[09:16] <didrocks> lool: ok, so I'll just list firefox here
[09:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: not very
[09:17] <pitti> the end marker varies some plusminus a second
[09:17] <lool> didrocks: blacklists would make it easier to manage, but are usually a last resort kind of thing, and not meant for this
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, is that still worth spending efforts on boot speed now?
[09:17] <lool> didrocks: You should list firefox-3.6
[09:17] <pitti> depending on where it decides that the CPU is "empty" enough
[09:17] <pitti> seb128: we are still > 10 s..
[09:17] <lool> didrocks: firefox is already listed earlier in the netbook-remix karmic seed
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, we are down to 10.nn seconds and the remaining part to optimize doesn't seem really GNOME now
[09:17] <didrocks> lool: understood, updating now. Thanks :)
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, did we say 10.00s?
[09:17] <lool> (I checked karmic; let me check the lucid UNE see)
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, or 10s?
[09:17] <pitti> well, desktop is 5 s still
[09:18] <seb128> because 10.8s is 10s to me
[09:18] <didrocks> lool: it's the same, we still have the firefox-3.5. I just have to replace by firefox as it's firefox 3.6
[09:18] <lool> Oh right we don't have a firefox-3.6
[09:18] <lool> didrocks: firefox should be already listed
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, is notify-osd dbus spawned when something open a notify bubble?
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: yes (dbus activation)
[09:19] <lool> didrocks: it's already there on line 94
[09:19] <didrocks> lool: right, it's already listed, but abrowser depends: firefox
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, I'm wondering what sends a bubble during that boot
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, and if that could be fixed to not
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, good point; nothing is
[09:19] <lool> didrocks: Hmm so?
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: perhaps something querying for capabilities
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, well nm does the "you can connect by clocking on the notifyicon"
[09:20] <seb128> clicking
[09:20] <seb128> or do you autoconnect to something?
[09:20] <didrocks> lool: no more need for the workaround, right? as abrowser will be considered and pull firefox, no?
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / pitti - nm-applet
[09:20] <lool> didrocks: firefox is explicitly seeded
[09:20] <pitti> seb128: nm-applet starts later than notify-osd
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> that shows a notification when it connects to wireless
[09:20] <pitti> so that's not it
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[09:20] <lool> didrocks: We want to list firefox in the seed because we want to ship firefox, not abrowser
[09:21] <lool> didrocks: the goal of seeding firefox-3.5 was for the webfav deps to be already satisfied by the seed when considered
[09:21] <pitti> the things before are: gconfd, mutter, g-s-d
[09:21] <lool> didrocks: But that's not needed anymore since we seed "firefox" and that satisfies the webfav deps
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i suspect that maybe my osd patch to g-s-d queries the capabilities
[09:21] <seb128> g-s-d maybe does query for notify capability?
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> i can look at that this afternoon and fix it if it's dong that
[09:22] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it might defer that until it has a notification to show?
[09:22] <didrocks> lool: hence my "no more workaround needed" as webfav deps are already satisfied
[09:22] <lool> didrocks: it used to be too indirect that we had to have a workaround (we wanted to avoid mentionning the firefox version in the seeded packages), so we added the workaround; it's not indirect anymore, we don't need the workaround
[09:22] <seb128> pitti, can you try a boot without g-s-d to see if notify-osd is still there?
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: good catch!
[09:22] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[09:22] <lool> didrocks: Exactly, but do keep firefox itself seeded on line 94
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: sure
[09:22] <lool> Just drop the Germinate workarounds sections with 3.5
[09:22] <lool> *section
[09:22] <didrocks> lool: oh sure, I didn't mean that :) I have also to bump webfav dep
[09:23] <lool> didrocks: Hmm the webfav deps are broken
[09:23] <didrocks> lool: webfav doesn't currently work with firefox 3.6, but I'll fix that
[09:23] <lool> didrocks: These might just need a rebuild IIRC
[09:23] <lool> Ok
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: oops, I think it didn't like that; it's spinning on a black bg forever now
[09:24] <seb128> weird
[09:24] <didrocks> lool: thanks :)
[09:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is that patch in a plugin? or in g-s-d itself?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it's in the media-keys plugin
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, did you move the autostart away or did you do your chmod trick?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> bbiab, i have my exit interview with HR now
[09:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good luck!
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: chmod
[09:25] <pitti> disabled the plugin now
[09:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, does g-u-s need sponsoring btw?
[09:26] <seb128> pitti, that might not work, gnome-session might be waiting on g-s-d to be done with registration to go to next steps
[09:26] <seb128> pitti, I usually move the autostart away which makes it not try at all
[09:26] <seb128> anyway turning off media-key seems better
[09:27] <pitti> nope, still starts up
[09:28] <pitti> I'll track that down
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, can you look at libgnome-keyring now?
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, I would like to upload the gnome-keyring updates which block on the lib to be accepted first before going for the afternoon
[09:30] <pitti> oops, sorry; doing
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:31] <didrocks> so, no objection about removing openoffice.org-help-en-us from the netbook seed? I don't see any other opportunity of removal apart from computer-janitor-gtk
[09:32] <pitti> uh
[09:32] <pitti> didrocks: dropping presentation and draw is not enough?
[09:33] <pitti> and -base?
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: looks fine, accepted; thanks
[09:33] <didrocks> pitti: presentation can be dropped. draw isn't listed, so it should be mixed with something else
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, to main?
[09:33] <pitti> yes
[09:33] <seb128> excellent
[09:33] <didrocks> pitti: but one of the point of providing OOo again was presentation…
[09:33]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:34] <pitti> didrocks: hm, ok; perhaps we could drop calc then
[09:34] <pitti> didrocks: (fair point, yes)
[09:34] <didrocks> pitti: let me check
[09:34] <pitti> didrocks: and we don't even have mono back yet, do we?
[09:35] <pitti> seb128: so I dropped all the g-s-d plugins which link against libnotify, and now it's started later
[09:36] <didrocks> pitti: 5 MB for calc apparently
[09:36] <didrocks> pitti: no, no mono
[09:36] <didrocks> pitti: and I think we'll be asked to bring the music store plugin
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: I'll just start a dbus-monitor and see what else is talking to it
[09:36] <didrocks> (just hope it's few KB)
[09:37] <seb128> pitti, I guess every program using libnotify queries for capabilities at init
[09:39] <lool> RAOF: Heya, you seem to be taking care of libdrm these days, any plans for merging .18 from Debian?  it fixes a nasty random crash
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: right, it's in notify_init()
[09:39] <RAOF> lool: I believe tjaalton is on it.
[09:45] <didrocks> pitti: when you have some time: lp:~didrocks/+junk/netbook.lucid. simple-scan can be the next opportunity if we really want gwibber in :/
[09:46] <pitti> didrocks: well, if OO.o is too big, we have to go with abiword and gnumeric, and then have space for gwibber, tomboy, mono
[09:46] <pitti> didrocks: dropping simple-scan is fair enough (although it is quite small); it's not a netbook-y app
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: right, I'm still looking for an presentation software which can open odp as this is typically a netbook usage (making a conference)
[09:49] <lool> RAOF: thanks
[09:54] <tjaalton> RAOF: sure, I'll add patches to revert the two changes you mentioned
[09:55] <RAOF> tjaalton: Thanks.  You weren't already on it?  I'll prepare a nouveau DDX upload that'll build againt it.
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - you can sponsor g-u-s if you like. it's in a workable state at the moment anyway
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> i'll do some more work on that over the weekend
[09:57] <tjaalton> RAOF: I was about to ask you where we stand :)
[09:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok thanks
[09:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how went your hr interview?
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it was ok. but i just wanted to finish and have my breakfast ;)
[09:59] <seb128> hehe
[10:00] <seb128> they didn't offer you some coffee? ;-)
[10:06] <kklimonda> hmm.. looks like firefox is yet another victim of the gtk-csd
[10:07] <kklimonda> same problem as with nautilus - when I rearrange tabs or drag selected text I see gray rectangle..
[10:08] <seb128> issues were expected
[10:08] <seb128> opens bug if there is none and let us know
[10:08] <seb128> I will tag and assign them correctly
[10:09] <seb128> it's still before alpha3
[10:09] <seb128> we have time for bugfixing before betas and lucid
[10:10] <kklimonda> yeah, opening it right now - LP was misbehaving once again :)
[10:10] <vish> seb128: i was about to say "i didnt understand" what you meant in Bug #524301 , only now i noticed rhythmbox cpu usage :D.. duping my bug.. thanks :)
[10:12] <seb128> vish, sorry about the dup undup got some launchpad issues
[10:12] <seb128> vish, but yeah, I think all the "$software uses cpu" are the same gtk issue
[10:12] <vish> np.. thanks :)
[10:13] <kklimonda> seb128: bug 524329 - should I tag next bugs I find as gtk-csd or just paste them here leave triaging for you guys?
[10:13] <seb128> kklimonda, feel free to tag those gtk-csd
[10:23] <pitti> argh, I still had nautilus disabled on the mini
[10:24]  * pitti does a reinstall with today's image to get a clean slate again
[10:34] <pitti> didrocks: any chance to get the ubiquity icon into the favourites for alpha-3?
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: oh sure, I was thinking of making iso testing next week, but I still can have a look now
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: no need to let everything drop, just asking whether that's on your radar
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: we can certainly survive another alpha if it's hard for some reason
[10:37] <didrocks> pitti: I hope it'll not be so complicated. I have a little idea why we don't have it anymore, but I need to check that
[10:37] <didrocks> pitti: today, I'm triaging and ordering bugs which should be fixed and those two (with webfav not compatible with FF 3.6) are on my first priorities
[10:38] <pitti> didrocks: sounds fine
[10:38] <didrocks> (the third being "no clock applet by defaut)
[10:38] <didrocks> default*
[10:46] <vish> seb128: another Bug #524304 probably gtk-csd related ?  you want all to be duped to the meta bug or want to track the different issues?
[10:47] <seb128> reassign to gtk for now and keep those separated
[10:47] <vish>  ok.. thanks..
[10:47] <seb128> those might be apps issues too or theme issues
[10:48] <seb128> brb
[11:00] <seb128> pitti, did you measure what impact gnome-user-share has?
[11:00] <seb128> on boot speed
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: I didn't; I thought it was disabled by default?
[11:00] <pitti> just reinstalling
[11:00] <seb128> pitti, well it exit immediatly since no option is activated by default
[11:00] <seb128> but you were concerned by the loading cost
[11:00] <pitti> I thought it had an AutostartCondition?
[11:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson's update add a delay to the autostart but I'm wondering if that's really required
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, no, as said the other day I didn't do that because the server check for what is enable and exit immediatly
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, autostart can check one key not combinaison, and since you can use it for webdav and,or bluetooth
[11:01] <pitti> that still requires it to link, start up, and connect to gconf in vain?
[11:02] <seb128> well that's what you said the other day
[11:02] <pitti> but I thought the final plan was to run it on demand
[11:02] <seb128> that's why I'm asking ;-)
[11:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / pitti - if we want to use an autostartcondition, i could add a new merged gconf key to trigger the autostart
[11:02] <chrisccoulson> i plan to do some work on this over the weekend anyway
[11:02] <pitti> wah, fresh install, and it fails immediately
[11:02]  * pitti purges plymouth again and sighs
[11:02] <seb128> well I'm wondering if that makes sense, I would expect loading cost to be marginal
[11:03] <seb128> but since we are after 0.1 seconds
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - is it worth me reporting plymouth bugs, or is it known to be broken?
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> plymouth gets worse every time i try and install it...
[11:03] <seb128> pitti, anyway it has a delay=15s with the upload I just sponsored from chrisccoulson
[11:03] <seb128> pitti, so it's not a boot speed concern
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks for sponsoring :)
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: I just spent two hours to eliminate 4 greps and two "which"es from Xsession.d .. :)
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: ok, that should be fine
[11:03] <seb128> pitti, it just seems ridiculous to delay things this way to win 0.1s out of benchmark effect
[11:04] <seb128> but yeah, we are fighting benchmarks at this point
[11:04] <pitti> well, shouldn't it start on demand?
[11:04] <seb128> not working on improving any user perspective
[11:04] <pitti> well, needlessly starting a program is not just benchmark fighting
[11:04] <seb128> pitti, well, if you can detect that something try to push things over bluetooth that would be nice
[11:05] <seb128> I'm not sure that's the sort of things you get events for though
[11:05] <seb128> I would expect you need the service to listen for those
[11:05] <pitti> doesn't bluez daemon already listen to those?
[11:05] <pitti> we have a bluetooth applet and a system bluez daemon
[11:06] <pitti> adding a third one for functionality that isn't necessary for most people seems to be a waste to me
[11:06] <seb128> I don't have any bluez daemon running there
[11:06] <seb128> and the gnome-bluetooth applet is not a server
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: e. g. the bluetooth applet already notices new devices like phones
[11:06] <seb128> it's an ui to configure bluetooth
[11:06] <pitti> it could start g-u-s once it pairs with a pone
[11:06] <pitti> phone
[11:06] <seb128> right
[11:07] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i could look at doing that. it would need to handle the case though where a user allows non-paired phones to send files though
[11:07] <seb128> well right now as said the daemon start, check if anything needs it and exit
[11:07] <chrisccoulson> which is possible in the UI
[11:07] <seb128> which I don't think it's anything real world users would notice
[11:07] <pitti> seb128: right, but what's the point in that? it's overhead for zero benefit
[11:07] <pitti> if it's not running, then it won't be there when actually needed either
[11:07] <seb128> well it doesn't exit if you need it
[11:08] <seb128> like you do webdav sharing
[11:08] <seb128> or bluetooth sharing
[11:08] <pitti> we don't want to say "you must have your phone turned on and paired when starting your session"
[11:08] <pitti> right for webdav
[11:08] <seb128> well g-u-s shares things over bluetooth too
[11:08] <seb128> you can browse your computer from an another computer too
[11:08] <seb128> using nautilus
[11:09] <pitti> that again requires pairing first
[11:09] <seb128> depends of what option you selected
[11:09] <seb128> as chrisccoulson's said there is a "share without pairing" option
[11:09] <pitti> that would be a good autostart condition then :)
[11:09] <pitti> and the rest on demand, triggered on pairing
[11:09] <seb128> well we just start having or conditions
[11:10] <seb128> right
[11:10] <seb128> we have zillions of things which would be nice to have but limited manpower though ;-)
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: how come you don't have bluetoothd running, BTW? did you disable it for testing?
[11:10] <seb128> anyway delay=15s, load a binary which check keys and exit should not be end of the world
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: right, but then we also have the option of not installing it in the first place
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - for now, do you want me to add an autostart condition so that it only starts when sharing is enabled (it is disabled by default anyway)
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> then we can maybe look at other alternatives afterwards
[11:12] <seb128> pitti, that would break obex push for users though
[11:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that would be nice (i. e. move the check from the binary into the .desktop?)
[11:12] <seb128> pitti, I've bluetoothd indeed I was looking for bluez* before
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. i don't like the current architecture anyway (ie, the daemon starts and then exits if sharing is disabled, and then the preferences UI spawns it again if you enable sharing)
[11:13] <seb128> pitti, I think I agree with you because we need to reach that benchmark target but I don't think having autostart condition or the binary checking condition and exiting itself makes a fondamental difference
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> which just seems weird anyway
[11:13] <seb128> pitti, out of the loading things cost with is like 0.1s and would not be noticed by any users out of benchmark in practice
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: not a fundamental one, of course; just wakeups, I/O, and some power loss, but nothing dramatic indeed
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: but even with ignoring that the architecture doesn't seem very clever to me
[11:14] <seb128> well I would expect that loading a binary and looking for some keys is not any costy on a modern hardware
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: in terms of usability
[11:14] <seb128> right
[11:14] <seb128> it's just that we have enough to do without redesigning g-u-s now
[11:15] <seb128> I would just say keep the delay key and live with the marginal loading cost happening 15 seconds in the session
[11:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you are welcome do you the changes you suggested if you want though ;-)
[11:15] <pitti> brb, I need my eth cable for the mini, to get wl through jockey
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll have a look over the weekend
[11:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[11:27] <pitti> seb128: hm, current dist-upgrade wants to remove dozens of packages, and upgrade holds back libnome-keyring
[11:27] <pitti> is there a breaks or so to earlier versions?
[11:27] <pitti> or is it just missing newer gnome-keyring now?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti, yes, libgnome-keyring and gnome-keyring need to go together
[11:28] <pitti> ah, good
[11:28] <seb128> pitti, I've uploaded it but they are one publisher run away
[11:28]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:28]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[11:29] <seb128> so with new indicator, gtk csd and new gnome-keyring we finally having lucid looking like an unstable version :p
[11:29] <pitti> lol
[11:29] <davmor2> Guys is it me or is synaptic a bit broken?
[11:29] <seb128> define broken
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: although with plymouth it has felt like that for weeks now :)
[11:29] <seb128> pitti, you can get the gnome-keyring binaries on launchpad if you want to bootchart the update
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: not _that_ urgent, don't worry
[11:30] <seb128> pitti, ah right, I just uninstalled this one and forgot about it ;-)
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: they are a tad slower (I measured them before), by .1 s or so
[11:30] <davmor2> seb128: it's been open for 3 minutes and it's still reading the package list only the bar bottom right doesn't seem to be moving
[11:32] <davmor2> seb128: meh just tried it in vm on normal desktop it's fine but on une it's broken
[11:33] <davmor2> seb128: I'll try a vm version of une and see if it is broken there too
[12:07] <chrisccoulson> excellent, my new desk has finally arrived :)
[12:07] <chrisccoulson> 2 days late
[12:07] <baptistemm> « Better later than never »
[12:08] <chrisccoulson> heh
[12:08] <baptistemm> :)
[12:11] <pitti> bah, stopwatching the boot is surprisingly difficult
[12:11] <chrisccoulson> is it too quick?
[12:11] <pitti> no, but it all pops up at once
[12:11] <pitti> you don't have any progress to guide you when to press the button
[12:12] <pitti> so you have to stare like an eagle and train a little :)
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> and not blink:)
[12:12] <pitti> I want to measure the impact of bootchart itself
[12:12] <djsiegel1> Amaranth: hello
[12:12] <pitti> that collector process uses a fair bit of CPU as well
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it would be good if bootchart is adding 1 second to the boot ;)
[12:12] <pitti> 'xactly
[12:13] <pitti> it'd be like Heisenberg
[12:13] <soren> Do we know how much it adds? It must add /something/.
[12:14] <pitti> soren: that's what I'm just trying to find out :)
[12:15] <pitti> soren: given how much we fight for every bit of blue on those charts, the permanent blue "collector" process certainly has some
[12:15] <soren> pitti: If I were you, I'd insmod something right after bootchart runs (or doesn't run), and look at kernel timestamps in dmesg.
[12:16] <pitti> sometimes it's nice to actually have a hardware clock :)
[12:16] <soren> pitti: ..especially since we're (hopefully) talking about sub-second delays.
[12:18] <pitti> but those matter hugely these days
[12:18] <pitti> with bootchart: 11.58 11.67 11.9
[12:18] <pitti> without bootchart: 10.63 10.52 11.28
[12:19] <pitti> (three identical setups/measurements in a row)
[12:19] <soren> pitti: How are you timing this?
[12:19] <pitti> so sounds like 10% overhead
[12:19] <pitti> grub "press enter" until desktop appears:
[12:19] <soren> Using a stopwatch?
[12:19] <pitti> yes
[12:20] <pitti> I think my human error margin is some .2 s
[12:23] <soren> Well, if you want it, I have a module that just says "Hi, pitti!". The kernel's timestamps should be accurate enough for a comparison.
[12:23] <pitti> soren: what could be a trigger then?
[12:23] <soren> pitti: Add a Xsession thing to insmod it?
[12:23] <soren> At a relevant time.
[12:23] <pitti> that'd be start of session, not "session is done"
[12:23] <pitti> but I guess it doesn't matter
[12:24] <pitti> to merely figure out the overhead
[12:24] <soren> Well, how does bootchart get called?
[12:24] <soren> Put it whereever that is.
[12:24] <pitti> soren: it collects for 45s and then walks back the CPU chart until the CPU dropped
[12:24] <soren> Oh.
[12:24] <soren> Oh, ok.
[12:25] <pitti> so, my average times are 11.7 vs. 10.8 s
[12:26] <pitti> so an 8% overhead is fair to say, I think
[12:26]  * pitti lunches
[12:27] <soren> pitti: lp:~soren/+junk/pittimod if you want it. It expects you to have your kernel headers installed.
[12:49] <pitti> soren: oh, thanks!
[12:49] <soren> pitti: Just "make" should do it.
[12:49] <djsiegel1> pressing the power button on  my laptop shuts the thing off, where do I report this bug?
[12:50] <pitti> djsiegel1: do you have gnome-power-manager running?
[12:51] <djsiegel1> pitti: I can't figure out how to type | on this netbook!
[12:51] <djsiegel1> so I can't grep
[12:51] <djsiegel1> one sec
[12:51] <pitti> lol
[12:51] <pitti> ps ux > /tmp/ps
[12:51] <pitti> grep power /tmp/ps
[12:52] <didrocks> djsiegel1: or ps -C gnome-power-manager
[12:52] <djsiegel1> no, no gnome-power-manager
[12:52] <djsiegel1> oo ps -C
[12:52] <didrocks> grep is expensive :)
[12:52] <djsiegel1> didrocks: yeah in 1990
[12:53] <djsiegel1> pitti: this is fresh lucid daily, running with no gnome-power-manager
[12:55] <pitti> djsiegel1: hm, do you have a crash report for it?
[12:55] <djsiegel1> pitti no
[12:55] <djsiegel1> pitti mabe
[12:55] <djsiegel1> maybe
[12:55] <pitti> djsiegel1: if you start it from a terminal with --verbose, does it fail?
[12:56] <djsiegel1> no, that works
[12:56] <djsiegel1> power button now works as expected
[12:57] <djsiegel1> djsiegel1-afk
[13:10] <asac> hmm gnome-keyring is installed but not started correclty i am told by gajim
[13:11] <seb128> asac, did you upgrade to 2.29?
[13:11] <seb128> asac, did you restart the session since?
[13:11] <asac> seb128: i dist-upgraded
[13:11] <asac> rebooted
[13:12] <seb128> :-(
[13:12] <seb128> dpkg -l | grep gnome-keyring
[13:12] <asac> gnome-keyring                        2.29.90git20100218-0ubuntu1
[13:12] <asac> no process running
[13:13] <seb128> no gnome-keyring-daemon running?
[13:13] <asac> i can start it manually
[13:13] <asac> no its not running
[13:13] <asac> let me re-login
[13:13] <seb128> do you use GNOME?
[13:13] <asac> yes
[13:13] <seb128> weird
[13:13] <asac> hmm do i?
[13:13] <asac> let me check ;)
[13:13] <asac> DESKTOP_SESSION=gnome
[13:13] <asac> GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
[13:13] <asac> yes
[13:14] <asac> can re-login in 3 minutes ... have to wait for aarm board upgrade in ssh session to finish
[13:29] <pitti> asac, ccheney: "identify reverse dependencies in stable releases that get exposed to insecure content" -> is there a list now?
[13:30] <asac> seb128: its now running
[13:30] <seb128> asac, ok, weird, I will keep an eye on bugs about that
[13:30] <asac> yeah ... i think its a one time thing
[13:32] <kenvandine> hey pitti, forwarding that to debian is at the top of my list today
[13:32] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[13:32] <pitti> kenvandine: so, I'm a bit undecided whether to sponsor it now (if Debian uses something different, we'll have a big naming transition game)
[13:32] <pitti> kenvandine: OTOH, we'll probably survive that
[13:33] <pitti> but we'd have to keep the changes for 4 releases
[13:33] <kenvandine> pitti, i would hate for all those docs to go into one package
[13:33] <kenvandine> it would be a huge package
[13:33] <pitti> yeah, probably
[13:33] <kenvandine> and usually you only need a piece of it
[13:33] <kenvandine> i think all the docs are about 9M
[13:39] <asac> pitti: blam, epiphany, liferea, bfilter, edbrowse, gluezilla, gnome-python-extras, chmsee, conkeror, fennec, galeon, gears, gnome-web-photo, google-gadgets, kazehakase, listen, miro, midbrowser, prism, tuxguitar,
[13:40] <pitti> asac: ah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list ?
[13:40] <pitti> asac: so that WI is done, thanks
[13:40] <asac> devhelp and yelp are questionable
[13:40] <asac> i would hope we can say no
[13:40] <asac> for those
[13:40] <asac> yes
[13:40] <asac> let me add that at the bottom explicitly
[13:42] <asac> pitti: will you set that WI to done? otherwise i can do that
[13:43] <asac> we are working on the backporting in a ppa
[13:43] <asac> err upporting
[13:43] <asac> while doing this we will decide what apps are causing issues and need to be removed
[13:43] <pitti> re (sorry, phone call)
[13:44] <asac> no need to be sorry ;)
[13:44] <pitti> asac: devhelp/yelp> I agree, that's not exposed to insecure contents
[13:44] <pitti> [arnegoetje] roll new langpacks to lucid with localized yahoo plugins that have a search code: INPROGRESS
[13:45] <asac> thats partly done
[13:45] <pitti> asac: ^ hm, that doesn't seem to be related to the support model?
[13:45] <asac> pitti: rick added it there because we had no spec for the associated project ;)
[13:45] <asac> you know ... this yahoo project ;)
[13:45] <pitti> ah
[13:46] <asac> i think the idea is that i add the search codes for the currently shipped localized yahoo things and then we roll a new set for a3
[13:46] <pitti> asac: thanks for the heads-up; I set the WI to done and fixed the link to the wiki page
[13:46] <asac> and after a3 we add the zillion others
[13:47] <asac> locales we have to support
[13:47] <asac> i guess that needs to happen today?
[13:47] <asac> (e.g. if we want a new langpack set for a3?)
[13:47] <asac> i can also update the few we have manually ... but thats painful ;)
[13:47] <pitti> asac: AFAIUI, we're going to have a full export/-base rebuilds over the weekend
[13:47] <pitti> those will be the a3 langpacks
[13:48] <asac> pitti: do you know when the build gets kicked off?
[13:48] <asac> e.g. what time?
[13:48] <pitti> asac: not exactly
[13:48] <pitti> asac: but if it's a lot of manual work, I don't think it'd be a catastrophe to update it post-a3
[13:48] <pitti> by the time we'll release a3, we're going to have 100 uploads waiting anyway
[13:49] <asac> pitti: there are forces that want the searchcodes for locales to be proper by a3 ;)
[13:49] <pitti> ah
[13:49] <asac> i will update the plugins by EOD
[13:49] <pitti> asac: ok, then "today"
[13:49] <asac> if thats too late then thats bad luck ;)
[13:49] <asac> and has to wait till after a3
[13:49] <pitti> no, should be fine
[13:50] <pitti> asac: this just affects your xpi scripts, not the actual LP import/export, right?
[13:50] <asac> it only affects the po2xpi data even (not the scripts)
[13:50] <asac> the scripts are ready for what we want in a3
[13:50] <asac> so yes, not import/export related
[14:05] <pitti> kenvandine: great job on egenix!
[14:05] <pitti> (uploaded now)
[14:05] <pitti> it's too good to hold back :)
[14:05] <kenvandine> :)
[14:05] <kenvandine> great
[14:05] <kenvandine> thx
[14:05] <kenvandine> i'll get it forwarded this morning
[14:26] <Riddell> pitti: is this the chart you were making for kubuntu? http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/kubuntu-dev.html  it seems to include any item for everyone in ~kubuntu-dev, I'm not sure that's useful especially with ncommander in that team now
[14:28] <pitti> Riddell: right, that was the first shot at it; do we have a team which more accurately represents the people who are working on Kubuntu?
[14:28] <pitti> kubuntu-members is certainly way too large
[14:28] <Riddell> pitti: I'd rather it was organised by the tasks in Kubuntu/Todo than by people
[14:29] <pitti> Riddell: I could make a report just for ~jr :)
[14:29] <pitti> and attach the wiki page
[14:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - is apport meant to catch Xorg crashes?
[14:43] <pitti> Riddell: do you want to update Kubuntu status on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
[14:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, that shuold work again these days, we fixed it at the sprint
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i don't seem to be getting any crash reports
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> when my laptop freezes at bootup, there is a trace in /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old, suggesting X crashed
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> in fact
[14:45] <pitti> this should generate an apport report
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> bug 491672 is the one i'm getting
[14:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: anythign in /var/log/apport.log?
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - there's nothing there
[14:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have it enabled in /etc/default/apport ?
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> Xorg appears to use 100% CPU after supposedly crashing - i wonder if it gets stuck in a loop somewhere in its signal handler
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> apport is enabled here too
[14:47] <LaserJock> didrocks: around?
[14:47] <didrocks> LaserJock: yeah, there
[14:49] <LaserJock> didrocks: so I was going to start taking a crack on documenting making the GNOME session into a UNE-like one
[14:49] <LaserJock> didrocks: I wondered if it would be good to just basically give gconftool lines to do equivalent
[14:50] <didrocks> LaserJock: no, symlink are better if we change the settings
[14:50] <didrocks> so that the new settings are taken into account
[14:51] <LaserJock> hmm, so symlink to /usr/share/gconf/une/*?
[14:51] <didrocks> LaserJock: oh it depends, I'm thinking about doing it on system or per user
[14:52] <LaserJock> I just don't know enough of how gconf config dirs work
[14:52] <didrocks> on system yes, that's it with also symlinking /etc/xdg/xdg-une/* to /etc/xdg/ (symlink file by file)
[14:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps; it worked fine when I tested it last
[14:52] <didrocks> LaserJock: let's tackle the system one at first
[14:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: could you kill -SEGV xorg at some point and see whehter that works?
[14:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: (I suppose it does)
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> i can do that now ;)
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> brb
[14:53] <didrocks> LaserJock: so, right, symlinking the mandatory and default file (symlink each file, not the directory) to /usr/share/gconf/default/
[14:53] <LaserJock> didrocks: makes sense
[14:53] <didrocks> LaserJock: and then, run update-gconf-defaults
[14:54] <didrocks> LaserJock: (in the GNOME session)
[14:55] <LaserJock> ok, that makes a lot of sense
[14:55] <didrocks> LaserJock: ping me for a review, we will tackle per-user settings in a second round :)
[14:56] <slomo> seb128: you might want to sync all the new gstreamer pre-releases before everything is frozen too much ;)
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that doesn't work either
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> Xorg just gets stuck in a loop
[14:56] <pitti> ok, seems it broke yet again then
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> that's not an apport issue though is it?
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> i might debug it later
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> in the meantime, i've got some desk-building to do
[14:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, it seems the Xorg signal handler is broken again
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - can you recreate that?
[15:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: can try later; I'm in the middle of something, I need X
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no worries. i might do some X debugging later and see if i can figure it out ;)
[15:04] <rickspencer3> pitti, bryceh, didrocks, kenvandine, seb128, Riddell good morning/afternoon/evening
[15:04] <pitti> hi rickspencer3
[15:04] <didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
[15:06] <rickspencer3> oh good, seb128 is out on his break
[15:06] <rickspencer3> folks ... it's been a long few weeks I know, lots of hard work ...
[15:06] <rickspencer3> so I want to encourage folks, don't fall into the trap of working this weekend!!
[15:06] <rickspencer3> I beg you, take the weekend off
[15:07] <rickspencer3> this is a marathon, not a sprint
[15:07] <rickspencer3> there is still 2+ months until we ship ... so take care of yourselves ... the desktop will ship as schedule on the 29th
[15:07] <rickspencer3> if you are thinking about working this weekend because something seems too important, ask yourself ...
[15:08] <Riddell> hi
[15:08] <rickspencer3> "what would happen if I got hit by a bus"?
[15:08] <rickspencer3> chances are, when you think about it, you will see that Ubuntu will ship and all will be well
[15:09] <Riddell> uh oh, I said I would go to (another) KDE 4.4 release party tomorrow, does that count? :)
[15:09] <rickspencer3> Riddell, parties do not count ;)
[15:09] <rickspencer3> Riddell, where is my invitation? 'pose it was lost in the mail
[15:09] <Riddell> oh phew
[15:10] <Riddell> you missed a fun one in DC last week
[15:14] <ccheney> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100218-1-hacked.png <- Yipee! :)
[15:14] <ccheney> 9.98s
[15:14] <kenvandine> ccheney, wow...
[15:14] <ccheney> looks like without the 'hacked' we are still about .5 - 1.0 second off from that
[15:15] <LaserJock> didrocks: so, I tried it out and it works well. The only thing is the netbook-launcher favorites seem duplicated (2 of each)
[15:15] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's something I did on my system or not
[15:16] <pitti> ccheney: :)
[15:16] <pitti> ccheney: but that was (1) exceptionally lucky, and (2) a bit stripped down
[15:16] <pitti> ccheney: in the meantime I uploaded the Xsession.d/ cleanup
[15:16] <pitti> but I didn't upload the "early mutter startup" one yet
[15:16] <pitti> I'm not so sure about this
[15:19] <didrocks> LaserJock: hum, I think it should be on your user level, I don't have other explanation currently, but that has to be tried on a vm
[15:19] <TeTeT> asac: do you think that upstream will accept my blacklisting patch for modem manager, see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608022
[15:20] <asac> TeTeT: will poke dan when i see him
[15:20] <TeTeT> asac: thanks
[15:21] <LaserJock> didrocks: yeah, and not a big deal either. I suppose I should also have the -efl equivalent too. One sec and I'll have it up in a wiki page
[15:22] <didrocks> LaserJock: sweet!
[15:22] <asac> TeTeT: in top comment he said we want to blacklist by vid/pid ... is tat what thi spatch does
[15:22] <asac> ?
[15:23] <asac> TeTeT: maybe attach an example blacklist
[15:23] <TeTeT> asac: nope, it blacklists by device file name
[15:23] <TeTeT> asac: I don't know enough about the probing unfortunately
[15:23] <asac> TeTeT: thats like ttyS0?
[15:23] <TeTeT> asac: exactly
[15:23] <asac> TeTeT: yeah. he will reject it then.
[15:24] <asac> the blacklist needs to be by pid/vid
[15:24] <TeTeT> asac: ok, good to know
[15:24] <asac> actually i think the right way is to add a udev LABEL
[15:24] <asac> so you can deploy that in udev/rules.d
[15:24] <asac> like MM_MODEM_PROBE_BLACKLIST
[15:25] <asac> TeTeT: check /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-ericsson-mbm.rules
[15:25] <asac> there they add ID_MM_ERICSSON_MBM label
[15:25] <asac> we could use the same for blacklisting and then make the  patch to just ignore devices with such a label
[15:26] <TeTeT> asac: great idea, but I fear my coding knowledge is not good enough for such a patch
[15:26] <TeTeT> asac: I wouldn't know where to look for the label in the datastructure
[15:26] <asac> TeTeT: it should be much simpler
[15:27] <asac> rather than the whole code you just use one gudev call to get check whether such a property exists
[15:27] <asac> i think its g_udev_device_get_property
[15:27] <ccheney> pitti: good luck :)
[15:27] <asac> or g_udev_device_get_property_as_boolean
[15:27] <asac> pitti: is ^^ the func to get such a ENV{...} ?
[15:28] <pitti> asac: correct
[15:28] <asac> TeTeT: maybe even just g_udev_device_get_property_keys
[15:28] <TeTeT> asac: looks like a possibility
[15:28] <asac> TeTeT: so yeah. just replace the "is_blacklisted" call with that and then you are done
[15:28] <asac> and you can blacklist modems like in the mbm rules (just with the right label)
[15:28] <TeTeT> asac: mbm rules?
[15:28] <asac> /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-ericsson-mbm.rules
[15:29] <TeTeT> ok
[15:29] <asac> ATTRS{idVendor}=="0bdb", ATTRS{idProduct}=="190a", ENV{ID_MM_BLACKLISTED}="1"
[15:29] <asac> pitti: what is ID_ used for? is there a rule?
[15:29] <asac> guess ID_ is wrong for this ;)
[15:30] <TeTeT> ?
[15:30] <pitti> asac: I don't know about ID_MM_BLACKLISTED
[15:30] <asac> pitti: no ... what i mean: is ID_ a standing prefix used in udev world for some kind of stuff
[15:30] <asac> ?
[15:30] <asac> or is that just MM invention?
[15:31] <pitti> asac: no, it's pure convention
[15:31] <pitti> it's not magic in any way
[15:33] <asac> TeTeT: try http://pastebin.com/d700ac834
[15:33] <asac> pitti: right. just wanted to know what kind of convention that is
[15:33] <asac> if its usually used for X ... i dont want to use it for Y ... but nevermind
[15:34] <asac> dan can just fix the variable as he wishes
[15:34] <asac> TeTeT: oh that has syntax probs ... one second
[15:34] <pitti> asac: it's usually used for any kind of "ID"entification from the device itself
[15:34] <pitti> asac: things like vendor names, partition types, drive labels, serial numbers
[15:34] <pitti> asac: or driver names
[15:35] <TeTeT> asac: why not has_property_as_boolean?
[15:35] <asac> TeTeT: cat attachment.cgi\?id\=154040  | pastebinit
[15:35] <pitti> but there's no strong policy on that
[15:35] <asac> http://pastebin.com/d49062b2b
[15:35] <pitti> the properties should be self-descriptive
[15:35] <asac> TeTeT: i would say whenever that property is used we blacklist
[15:35] <TeTeT> asac: ok
[15:36] <TeTeT> well, it was nice to learn how to read a config file in gnome anyway ;)
[15:37] <asac> lol
[15:37] <asac> TeTeT: true.
[15:37] <asac> TeTeT: i attached that patch to the bug
[15:37] <asac> will talk to dcbw and commit it if he is ok with that
[15:37] <asac> TeTeT: maybe confirm that it works as expected for you
[15:38] <TeTeT> asac: I can't test right now, as I don't have the needed hardware, will query the customer
[15:38] <TeTeT> asac: thanks a lot for your help!
[15:38] <asac> TeTeT: yeah. try to build at least ;) ... no problem
[15:39] <TeTeT> how to do something like bzr revert in git?
[15:40] <TeTeT> nevermind
[15:41] <asac> git reset HEAD^; git checkout -f (thats uncommit + revert)
[15:41] <LaserJock> didrocks: does UNE-efl use maximus?
[15:42] <didrocks> LaserJock: it will in the UNE session, I don't think it's compulsory, but it's better for the user experience
[15:42] <pitti> DARN
[15:42] <pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[15:42] <pitti> still oversized
[15:42] <didrocks> LaserJock: it's just an independant piece of software which maximise every window
[15:43] <didrocks> pitti: and no gwibber yet
[15:43] <LaserJock> didrocks: yeah, I was just looking at /etc/xdg/xdg-une-efl
[15:44] <didrocks> I'm afraid it will be really hard this time (and I don't want to imagine how it will be for the french remix…)
[15:44] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, but that will probably change soon
[15:45] <LaserJock> didrocks: what will change about it?
[15:45] <didrocks> LaserJock: having maybe maximus desktop file in it (still need to be discussed, but don't have the time today, I hope next week)
[15:45] <LaserJock> ok
[15:46] <LaserJock> didrocks: are there any public UNE meetings at all?
[15:46] <LaserJock> I noticed that almost everything to do with UNE is pretty tightly Canonical
[15:46] <didrocks> LaserJock: the meeting is here, in the traditional desktop team meeting
[15:46] <didrocks> LaserJock: and specs were discussed at UDS, which is public
[15:48] <LaserJock> k
[15:48] <qense> kenvandine: I've found the Twitter issue for Gwibber: "error: (60, 'server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt CRLfile: none')" Changing  'https' to 'http' in the URL_PREFIX in microblog/twitter.py solves the issue, but that's probably not the best solution.
[15:49] <kenvandine> qense, ah... yeah
[15:49] <kenvandine> jcastro knows the work around to that
[15:49] <kenvandine> it is a bug in ca-certificates
[15:49] <qense> ah
[15:49] <jcastro> qense: I'll dig it up
[15:49] <kenvandine><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:49] <LaserJock> didrocks: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition/ConvertGnomeSession
[15:49] <qense> thanks!
[15:50] <qense> kenvandine: I also see in my log that facebook:images and flickr:images don't work. Both keyerrors.
[15:50] <kenvandine> qense, thank you!
[15:50] <kenvandine> oh?
[15:50] <kenvandine> file a bug on those
[15:50] <qense> ok
[15:50] <kenvandine> thx
[15:50] <qense> thank you too
[15:50] <TeTeT> asac: builds fine, I will install it now and see
[15:51] <jcastro> qense: hey post your question on answers for gwibber so I can document it for everyone pls.
[15:52] <qense> jcastro: I'll do it
[15:54] <didrocks> LaserJock: rock! I read it and it seems correct. Just corrected a few typos
[15:55] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok, well, we can tweak it as the release gets closer if needed
[15:55] <qense> jcastro: https://answers.launchpad.net/gwibber/+question/101673
[15:56] <LaserJock> didrocks: I tried to chase down some people who said they were working on some system docs for UNR last year at some point to see if they're still interested
[15:56] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, there still have time. You should maybe link the page from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition*
[15:56] <LaserJock> didrocks: yep
[15:56] <didrocks> LaserJock: yeah, I saw you replied on the bug report ;)
[15:57] <didrocks> LaserJock: if you can gather some community support for that, it will be really great. Also, there are a lot of new things to describe on the 2D launcher (beginning by "how can I swith my sessions") :)
[15:57] <jcastro> qense: answered.
[15:57] <qense> good
[15:58] <jcastro> I wonder if that's something that would fall under the upgrade experience?
[15:58] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok yeah. if you can give me a list of things you think should be documented I can start working on those
[15:58] <jcastro> mdeslaur: what do you think? (he had the same ca-certs problem with gwibber)
[15:59] <didrocks> LaserJock: just now, it's "switching sessions", describing the difference in the 3 ones. Also adding/removing a favorite in the launcher can be good. Maybe a FAQ with "why my window are all maximised"?
[15:59] <didrocks> LaserJock: if I have further ideas, I will write them somewhere and ping you
[16:00] <mdeslaur> jcastro: yeah, looks like the same issue
[16:00] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok, great
[16:00] <didrocks> LaserJock: thanks again for your work, that's really good and will help a bunch of people :)
[16:01] <jcastro> mdeslaur: ok what radar do I need to put this on? I suspect with us shipping social-by-default that this will become a problem for people
[16:01] <mdeslaur> jcastro: hmm...it should only affect people who were running alpha/betas of karmic and who upgraded from there
[16:02] <mdeslaur> jcastro: I'm not sure where it could be visible...maybe it should get added to the gwibber website somewhere in a faq?
[16:02] <mdeslaur> jcastro: the same problem probably exists for debian users
[16:03] <jcastro> mdeslaur: release notes perhaps?
[16:04] <mdeslaur> jcastro: also, it may happen for people who explicitly disabled that CA because of security concerns a while ago
[16:04] <mdeslaur> jcastro: maybe release notes, although it's probably a corner case
[16:04] <mdeslaur> it would hit developers, but probably not users
[16:05] <jcastro> ok I will ask upstream to put it on the homepage, and then I guess we'll see if we get flooded with it. we can always add it if we need to.
[16:06] <mdeslaur> what's odd is he says "...don't show up in Gwibber anymore"
[16:06] <mdeslaur> like, how come all of a sudden
[16:06] <jcastro> I don't think it showed up untill new-gwibber landed
[16:06] <qense> At first I thought it was a bug in Gwibber.
[16:06] <qense> did Gwibber switch from http to https between those releases?
[16:07] <mdeslaur> qense: so this just happened suddenly?
[16:07] <qense> mdeslaur: it happened after I upgraded to the new 2.29 release of Gwibber. With the previous release still included in Karmic it did work.
[16:09] <mdeslaur> ah, maybe it switched to https
[16:09]  * mdeslaur has no clue
[16:12] <kenvandine> i think it was https before, but switched from urllib2 to pycurl
[16:13] <kenvandine> so maybe that tickles something differently
[16:13] <mdeslaur> maybe urllib2 wasn't validating the ssl cert
[16:14] <qense> kenvandine: btw, is Gwibber going to switch to the https://api.twitter.com/1 URL?
[16:14] <TeTeT> asac: your patch works, just blacklisted my 3G USB key. The specific module still detects it, but the generic one keeps the fingers off
[16:14] <kenvandine> qense, no idea, that is a question for segphault :)
[16:14] <kenvandine> is that the oauth new world order?
[16:14] <qense> OAuth/RESTful, yes
[16:15] <qense> more REST than OAuth, though
[16:15] <kenvandine> ah... probably for next cycle
[16:15] <kenvandine> definately not now
[16:15] <asac> TeTeT: cool. maybe comment on bug
[16:15] <asac> and post your example .rules
[16:15] <qense> they say they're planning on releasing https://api.twitter.com/2 soon.
[16:15] <kenvandine> ryan has looked at it
[16:16] <mdeslaur> yep, looks like urllib2 doesn't validate server certs...a lot of good that does
[16:16] <pitti> meh, seems that ICQ is thoroughly broken in empathy these days
[16:16] <pitti> I only ever get "network errors"
[16:17] <pitti> but it works just fine for my wife all the time (with pidgin)
[16:18] <rickspencer3> pitti, that's bad news indeed
[16:18] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, pitti, here's the scoopage on pitivi ...
[16:18]  * kenvandine listens
[16:18] <rickspencer3> pitivi teams thinks we should go with 0.13.4
[16:18] <TeTeT> asac: done
[16:19] <rickspencer3> this is a bug fix release
[16:19] <rickspencer3> and will be out in about 2 weeks
[16:19] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i did notice trunk was more stable than 0.13.3
[16:19] <rickspencer3> they think it will be ready for lucid
[16:19] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, bilboed was pretty specific that we *should not* release 0.13.3
[16:20] <rickspencer3> if we can't update to 0.13.4 for some reason
[16:20] <kenvandine> ok, i would agree
[16:20] <kenvandine> that was no fun at all :)
[16:20] <rickspencer3> they are very focused on quality now
[16:20] <rickspencer3> so I think we may end up in good shape
[16:21] <kenvandine> i would say we should try to grab a snapshot then and upload before a3
[16:21] <kenvandine> what do you guys think?
[16:21] <rickspencer3> but no transitions or titles
[16:21] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I know you are busy as all get out, but could you check with bilboed before you do that?
[16:21] <rickspencer3> or at least let him know
[16:21] <kenvandine> give us a little more testing of something closer to what we are shipping
[16:21] <rickspencer3> ?
[16:21] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, definately
[16:21] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:22] <rickspencer3> is pedro on vacation or something?
[16:22]  * rickspencer3 missed pedro
[16:22] <kenvandine> dunno
[16:23] <jcastro> yeah he's on holiday this week
[16:23] <pitti> we can upload new upstream bug fix releases for another 6 weeks, so I don't see a problem here
[16:23] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[16:23] <jcastro> should I have him arrange some pitivi bug love days? I need to get gwibber hug days planned anyway
[16:24] <rickspencer3> jcastro, take a look: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pitivi
[16:25] <jcastro> rickspencer3: so are you saying we need more bugs reported or more bugs triaged?
[16:25] <jcastro> because gwibber has like 145
[16:25] <rickspencer3> jcastro, for pitivi, the bug list looks rather clean, or am I missing something?
[16:26] <jcastro> I am willing to bet money it's clean because people aren't using it yet
[16:26] <rickspencer3> jcastro, actually, I think community folks + pedro went through and cleaned it up
[16:27] <pitti> you could check the "fix released"/"invalid" ones
[16:27] <qense> there has been a bug day with pitivi as goal, eys
[16:27] <rickspencer3> the last time I looked they were all "New"
[16:27] <qense> yes*
[16:27] <didrocks> kenvandine: btw, I tried gwibber and subscribed to identica lately. I used openid in identica to register, so, no password. I don't know which password to use for gwibber, especially that I don't get any error message even with "aaaaa" as a password :)
[16:28] <jcastro> didrocks: you can't do that, to use the identi.ca api thing with a client you need to assign a password to your account there.
[16:28] <jcastro> the openid thing won't work
[16:28] <kenvandine> didrocks, oh interesting...
[16:28] <didrocks> jcastro: hum, identica doesn't let me now set a password neither remove the openid setting
[16:29] <kenvandine> didrocks, can you sponsor gwibber?
[16:29] <kenvandine> it is now like 200K smaller deb size :)
[16:29]  * kenvandine put gwibber on a diet last night
[16:29] <rickspencer3> jcastro, it looks like on Feb 11 pedro and others triaged all the pitivi bugs
[16:29] <didrocks> kenvandine: depending on how you can fix my issue with it :p
[16:30] <didrocks> kenvandine: kidding, give me your branch ;)
[16:30] <LaserJock> didrocks: is the 3D UNE session always the default? How will a person know to get the 2D version?
[16:30] <kenvandine> haha... not sure i can do anything there
[16:30] <kenvandine> didrocks, ~ubuntu-desktop/gwibber/ubuntu
[16:30] <kenvandine> didrocks, should make the CD much happier
[16:30] <jcastro> rickspencer3: ok well if ken ends up with a snapshot that will test upstream pitivi I'd be glad to take on an action to get people testing it furiously.
[16:30] <rickspencer3> thanks jcastro
[16:30] <kenvandine> that and trimming down the deps by 1M
[16:30] <didrocks> kenvandine: it's not in the CD yet until it's in main, and the CD is already not happy :)
[16:31] <kenvandine> i know
[16:31] <kenvandine> :)
[16:31] <kenvandine> working towards that...
[16:31] <pitti> btw, I got CDs to build again
[16:31] <pitti> (ubuntu desktop)
[16:31] <kenvandine> woot
[16:31] <didrocks> LaserJock: for the moment, the 3D UNE session is the default (and the launcher fallback to the 2D one if it fails to init 3D)
[16:31] <pitti> still 5 MB oversized with chopped langpacks :(
[16:31] <kenvandine> :/
[16:31] <LaserJock> didrocks: so if you want to go directly to the 2D session you can but otherwise it will essentially send you there as a fallback?
[16:32] <kenvandine> and i want to add 1.2M :/
[16:32] <pitti> something really grew in the last week
[16:32] <pitti> well, FF brought a lot of new depends
[16:33] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, (it doesn't switching your session, but just launch the 2D launcher)
[16:33] <LaserJock> didrocks: do you think in the future there might be other 2D stuff that will further differentiate the two sessions? or will it hopefully go away at some point?
[16:34] <bratsche> kenvandine, seb128: Just sent you guys an updated gtk+ patch which I think fixes that performance issue.
[16:35] <bratsche> It's not fixing Rhythmbox for me, but I think my Rhythmbox performance problem may be different from what the original poster said.  Mine is somehow stuck trying to index my entire home directory and I don't know how to tell it to stop. :)
[16:36] <bratsche> But it seems to be improving Evolution for me, and xchat seems fine.
[16:37] <didrocks> kenvandine: missing Replaces: in your gwibber theme package
[16:37] <kenvandine> ?
[16:37] <kenvandine> oh
[16:37]  * kenvandine fixes
[16:37] <didrocks> :)
[16:38]  * didrocks setup a password into identica
[16:38] <cassidy> seb128, would be good to sync https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/524417
[16:38] <didrocks> I'm sure that's the worst decision I took in my life :)
[16:39] <cassidy> seb128, also, tp-sofiasip 0.6.0 (stable branch) and tp-idle 0.1.6 that I released this morning
[16:39] <didrocks> cassidy: seb128 isn't there this afternoon, he will be back later or try on Monday :)
[16:40] <cassidy> ok; that's not urgent anyway; thanks!
[16:43] <pitti> kenvandine: so, you still need gwibber sponsored? is there a bug or branch for it?
[16:43] <kenvandine> pitti, didrocks is working on it
[16:43] <kenvandine> oh... i need to push
[16:43] <pitti> ok, great
[16:43] <LaserJock> didrocks: so have you seen this thing with the clock applet not always showing up in UNE?
[16:44] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, I know the cause, it'll be fixed for alpha3
[16:44] <didrocks> no more shared clock applet between UNE and desktop session.
[16:44]  * didrocks hides from rickspencer3
[16:45] <didrocks> pitti: pushed?
[16:45] <kenvandine> didrocks, pushed
[16:45] <didrocks> oupss kenvandine ^
[16:45] <didrocks> thanks :)
[16:45]  * pitti pushes his desk, but it won't move
[16:45] <didrocks> heh
[16:45] <kenvandine> sorry, people were asking me to upload crack in other channels (tedg) :)
[16:45] <kenvandine> haha
[16:45] <didrocks> kenvandine: don't trust those guys :p
[16:46] <kenvandine> yup :)
[16:46] <kenvandine> pitti, i uploaded a patch for indicator-application that fixes the crasher g-p-m was getting
[16:46] <kenvandine> but fallbacks seem a bit broken still
[16:46] <kenvandine> i won't upload that to g-p-m yet :)
[16:47]  * didrocks wants upnp to get working again on rhythmbox (broken since csd update) :/
[16:47] <kenvandine> :/
[16:48] <didrocks> jcastro: still no upnp support in banshee btw? I tried to have a look and the mono upnp stack seems to be ackward
[16:48] <pitti> kenvandine: btw, are you aware of broken icons in appindicator? Jockey's suddenly stopped working
[16:48] <pitti> kenvandine: I'm fine to investigate and file a bug if not
[16:48] <kenvandine> oh?
[16:48] <kenvandine> not aware
[16:48] <pitti> ok, seems not :) will send a bug then
[16:49] <pitti> thanks
[16:49] <kenvandine> maybe adding icon support broke something
[16:49] <kenvandine> tedg ^^
[16:49] <pitti> it removed icons apparently :)
[16:49] <kenvandine> that should require any app changes?
[16:49] <kenvandine> pitti, oh... is the problem that you see an empty icon?
[16:49] <jcastro> didrocks: I've not heard an update on the upnp bits in a while, next time I talk to one of them I'll ask
[16:50] <didrocks> jcastro: sweet, thanks :)
[16:50] <LaserJock> didrocks: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition/Sessions
[16:50] <pitti> kenvandine: no, it's like a screen with a stop sign in it
[16:50] <kenvandine> yeah, that is the broken image icon
[16:50] <kenvandine> i think
[16:50] <tedg> pitti: Do you use custom icons?  (like own theme type)
[16:51] <pitti> tedg:         try:
[16:51] <pitti>             indicator = appindicator.Indicator('jockey', 'jockey',
[16:51] <pitti>                     appindicator.CATEGORY_HARDWARE)
[16:51] <pitti> is one of that the icon name?
[16:51] <pitti> ("jockey" would be correct for /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/jockey.svg
[16:52] <pitti> or /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/jockey.png
[16:52] <tedg> pitti: Hmm, yes, it should be.
[16:52] <pitti> tedg: (sorry for dumb answer, I didn't write that)
[16:52] <pitti> but I'm sure that it worked when I merged ronoc's tree
[16:52]  * pitti is only here with half brain, release team meeting going on
[16:53] <tedg> pitti: Can I just run "jockey"?  That doesn't seem to do anything.
[16:53] <pitti> tedg: remove /var/cache/jockey/check and run jockey --check
[16:53] <pitti> sorry, jockey-gtk --check
[16:54] <kenvandine> crap... pitti can you sponsor this for me?
[16:54] <kenvandine> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
[16:54] <pitti> kenvandine: sure
[16:54] <kenvandine> some of these DX packages keep getting the acl messed up
[16:54] <kenvandine> thx
[16:54] <pitti> kenvandine: it's not in desktop bit?
[16:54] <kenvandine> not today :)
[16:54] <kenvandine> it goes back and forth
[16:54] <pitti> *chuckle*
[16:54] <kenvandine> cjwatson knows
[16:54] <pitti> you can only upload in even hours, you know
[16:54] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:54] <kenvandine> :)
[16:55] <kenvandine> his script or whatever that goes through and applies the logic for the ACL makes weird decisions sometimes
[16:55] <pitti> kenvandine: do I need to test anything or can I just blindly upload?
[16:55] <kenvandine> thinks the indicator stuff is foundation
[16:55] <kenvandine> i tested it
[16:55] <kenvandine> :)
[16:55] <kenvandine> just upload
[16:55]  * pitti debcommit -r
[16:55] <kenvandine> it is fine
[16:55] <kenvandine> :)
[16:56] <tedg> Hmm, it must be related to jockey setting to "NeedsAttention" but not having an AttentionIconName set.
[16:56] <tedg> I'll look into it.
[16:56] <tedg> Definitely an indicator-application bug.
[16:56] <didrocks> kenvandine: sweet, I've sent my first message in identica. sponsored :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> woot
[16:57] <kenvandine> thx!
[16:57] <didrocks> kenvandine: but no feedback when the password isn't the good one. That needs fixing I think :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> now to just find a way to bribe pitti into getting it on the oversized CD :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> didrocks, i know... we are working on it
[16:57] <kenvandine> it will likely require a FFE though
[16:57] <pitti> kenvandine: uploaded
[16:58] <kenvandine> thx
[16:58] <didrocks> kenvandine: FFe, why?
[16:58] <kenvandine> ryan is reworking some of the operations queue stuff
[16:58] <didrocks> kenvandine: oh, I have the same issue in the UNE one :)
[16:58] <kenvandine> in order to handle that
[16:58] <didrocks> kenvandine: 5 MB oversized, removed OOo calc this morning, but still, we will need something for gwibber
[16:59] <kenvandine> problem is the current operation handler can't distinguish when one service fails... etc
[16:59] <kenvandine> so we can't handle the exception
[16:59] <kenvandine> a bit of a design flaw :)
[16:59] <kenvandine> we just can't fix it without a little bit more of a change than i would feel comfortable without a FFE
[16:59] <kenvandine> i think
[16:59] <kenvandine> we'll see what it looks like when ryan actually pushes the code
[17:00] <kenvandine> maybe it will be no big deal
[17:00] <didrocks> LaserJock: I've added some precision on the GNOME session, but otherwise, perfect ;)
[17:01] <didrocks> kenvandine: ok, thanks for the clarification
[17:01] <kenvandine> he should be done with it today actually, but we won't merge it until it gets some good review
[17:01] <didrocks> pitti: btw, you used the commandline before to change the default session, but I added the functionality to gdmsetup too
[17:02] <pitti> didrocks: oh, indeed
[17:02] <kenvandine> pitti, btw i submitted that patch to debian
[17:02] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, thanks
[17:06] <tedg> pitti: Did you file the jockey thing as a bug?  I've got a merge proposal fixing it :)
[17:07] <pitti> tedg: no, I just noticed it this afternoon when I reinstalled the mini
[17:07] <pitti> tedg: sweet! I can merge it right away
[17:07] <pitti> tedg: oh, against jockey or libindicate?
[17:07] <kenvandine> indicator-application i am sure :)
[17:07] <tedg> pitti: indicator-application :)
[17:07]  * kenvandine is learning the indicat* stuff'
[17:07] <kenvandine> only took a year :-D
[17:08]  * tedg is so proud of kenvandine ;)
[17:08] <pitti> I just say .*indicat.* and I'm sure that tedg KWIM :)
[17:09] <kenvandine> hehe :)
[17:09] <pitti> tedg: so you fixed it faster than I could ask "should anything be changed in jockey then?" :) thanks
[17:09] <kenvandine> tedg, got a distro patch?
[17:10] <pitti> tedg: isn't that called "bzr merge trunk" these days?
[17:10] <tedg> kenvandine: give LP an hour or so to process it ;)
[17:10] <kenvandine> haha
[17:10] <pitti> i. e. why bother having debian/patches/ for trunk cherrypicks?
[17:10] <kenvandine> but trunk might include more crack :)
[17:10] <tedg> pitti: I don't think that we are doing, but they're getting merge into the ~ubuntu-desktop packaging branch.
[17:11] <tedg> kenvandine: Not too much more :)
[17:11] <kenvandine> tedg, sure......
[17:11] <pitti> kenvandine: well, you could check that; or just cherrypick with bzr merge -c
[17:11] <tedg> kenvandine: Give me time.
[17:11] <kenvandine> pitti, then we have a mix of debian/patches and inline source diff
[17:11] <kenvandine> pitti, perhaps after we clean the patches
[17:11] <kenvandine> next time :)
[17:12] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, we already have distro specific patches in indicator-applcation?
[17:12] <tedg> kenvandine: Here you go, the patch is HUGE! https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/attention-icon/+merge/19728
[17:12] <kenvandine> bug fix
[17:12] <kenvandine> just one
[17:12] <pitti> kenvandine: that's not merged upstream yet?
[17:12] <kenvandine> it is, i think
[17:12] <kenvandine> right tedg?
[17:12] <LaserJock> didrocks: one more: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition/BasicUsage
[17:13] <pitti> kenvandine: so, your call obviously, but if we have everything in branches already, then personally I just find it a nuisance to deal with debian/patches/
[17:13]  * tedg believes those Ubuntu people never send their patches upstream, that's what I hear atleast.
[17:13] <pitti> no, they suck
[17:13] <kenvandine> pitti, i agree completely.. i've been trying to conform to the ubuntu/debian way :)
[17:14] <kenvandine> pitti,  i'll cherrypick them and ask you to sponsor :)
[17:15] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, indeed, I just uploaded the same package :)
[17:15] <kenvandine> yup :)
[17:15] <kenvandine> this fix isn't in trunk yet
[17:15] <kenvandine> waiting for review
[17:15] <didrocks> LaserJock: sweet, you are really fast. Everything's ok, nothing to change :) I think those pages really ought to be linked from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition. Also maybe we can mention that UNE was called UNR before. Very good job!
[17:15] <pitti> kenvandine: I think it would still work with bzr that way
[17:16] <kenvandine> ok
[17:16] <pitti> kenvandine: i. e. merge from that branch, and once that branch is merged upstream, bzr will know
[17:16] <pitti> once you merge back from upstream to packagign
[17:16] <LaserJock> didrocks: I have added the links on the main page under "Using UNE"
[17:16] <LaserJock> didrocks: ah yeah, I'll add a note on the name change
[17:16] <didrocks> LaserJock: oh right, should buy glasses :)
[17:19] <LaserJock> didrocks: at some point some screenshots would help too, but probably after all the artwork is settled down
[17:20] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, I don't know if we will use the traditional ubuntu theme or again the dust one by default. Let's wait later to see how this goes and which theme is going well we the netbook-launcher by default
[17:23] <LaserJock> didrocks: hmm, is Lucid the first release as UNE or was Karmic also?
[17:23] <didrocks> LaserJock: karmic was still called "UNR", so lucid is the first "UNE" one, yes
[17:27] <kenvandine> pitti, can you look at lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
[17:27] <kenvandine> i removed the previous patch and cherrypicked it
[17:27] <kenvandine> and cherry picked this fix too
[17:27] <kenvandine> pitti, and it would be easier for you to test the fix in jockey... i don't remember how to trigger it :)
[17:28] <pitti> kenvandine: my pleasure
[17:28] <kenvandine> thx!
[17:28] <LaserJock> didrocks: check out the 2nd paragraph of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition
[17:28] <LaserJock> didrocks: not sure if that's the best place, but it's there anyway
[17:29] <didrocks> LaserJock: seems good to me. The most important piece is that page to get found if someone look for "UNR" and not "UNE"
[17:30] <LaserJock> yep
[17:33] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok, enough docs for me for the moment. Got any bugs/triage/packaging that I could take a crack at?
[17:34] <didrocks> LaserJock: some kind of week-end work? ;) Sure, I've triaged the bug I think that should be fixed on lucid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNE/lucid-bugs
[17:34] <didrocks> LaserJock: I've already began those which needs to be fixed for alpha3, so, you can take others
[17:34] <didrocks> LaserJock: I've tried to make categories by difficultie, but again, that's an heuristic :)
[17:34] <LaserJock> didrocks: I've been home sick the last couple days == time to play on the computer
[17:35] <pitti> sorry, got an X freeze
[17:35] <didrocks> LaserJock: oh right, get some rest too
[17:35] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, back to your sponsoring
[17:36] <didrocks> LaserJock: if you are taken some, just assign them to you in LP so that we don't work on the same
[17:36] <pitti> didrocks: I forgot, do you have a new seed branch?
[17:36] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok, np, that's a quite a list, I'll have a look
[17:37] <didrocks> pitti: lp:~didrocks/+junk/netbook.lucid
[17:38] <didrocks> LaserJock: it's the "bugs which need to be fixed for lucid" from my point of view from triaging the 300 ones. No hurry, we still have something like 2 monthes to fix all of them :)
[17:38] <LaserJock> didrocks: heh, "just" 2 months
[17:39] <didrocks> LaserJock: for instance (5) is pretty easy, it's just asking to people in the bug report if they can try in lucid and see if the n-l-efl fallback works :)
[17:44] <pitti> didrocks: I just saw that there's just one langpack on netbook right now :(
[17:45] <didrocks> pitti: oh, how do you see that, on the MANIFEST file?
[17:45] <pitti> didrocks: in the seeds
[17:45] <didrocks> well, UNE is a really really big image so :/
[17:45] <didrocks> let me look, to understand where the langpack are declared
[17:45] <pitti> didrocks: rickspencer3 and I just wondered why
[17:45] <pitti> didrocks: desktop has mono and tomboy  (which is 30 MB alone), and more langpacks
[17:46]  * rickspencer3 pokes pudgy UNE
[17:46] <didrocks> pitti: efl stuff + cheese ?
[17:46] <pitti> didrocks: efl is 3 MB
[17:46] <pitti> cheese sounds trivial
[17:46] <didrocks> hum, weird
[17:46] <pitti> I'll walk through manifest with a fine comb later on
[17:46] <pitti> desktop first
[17:47] <pitti> une is not really important to fit on 700 MB for alpha
[17:47] <didrocks> pitti: I tried to compared the UNE seed and the desktop one
[17:47] <didrocks> and I saw more apps (apart the one previously described) on desktop than UNE
[17:47] <rickspencer3> pitti, didrocks don't forget to STOP WORKING this evening ;)
[17:47]  * pitti is currently a bit lost; I think I need 20 minutes to catch up with all the sponsoring, bzr merging, and gwibber NEWing/promoting
[17:48] <pitti> I'll be back in IRC in a bit
[17:48] <rickspencer3> pitti, didrocks lets worry about UNE size next week
[17:48] <rickspencer3> pitti, good idea
[17:48] <pitti> right, but desktop size maatters
[17:48] <rickspencer3> tty next week!
[17:48] <rickspencer3> (yeah, desktop size needs to fit on a CD for A3)
[17:48] <pitti> kenvandine: gwibber NEWed, FYI
[17:48] <didrocks> pitti: I'll look at the UNE MANIFEST file next week. I only thought about the seed, but maybe there is something else
[17:49] <pitti> kenvandine: once it's through the publisher I can promote it
[17:49] <kenvandine> thx
[17:50] <didrocks> oh langpack are on the ship file
[17:51] <didrocks> pitti: if we can have a talk next week about the seeds again and description. The wiki page is not clear at all to me
[17:51] <pitti> didrocks: ship> irrelevant for desktop CDs
[17:51] <pitti> didrocks: "live" matters here
[17:51]  * didrocks needs a map for all those files ;)
[17:53] <didrocks> ok, so en and es for netbook
[17:53]  * didrocks silently replaces es by fr :)
[17:53] <kenvandine> :)
[17:53] <LaserJock> didrocks: I could maybe have a look at the seeds this weekend if you like
[17:54] <didrocks> LaserJock: no, don't bother about that, it will be boring I think (I've already went to the netbook seed today) and comparing the MANIFEST file seems to be a good Monday morning task :)
[17:55] <didrocks> LaserJock: you still can have a look in case I missed something, but I think this is nothing really obviously wrong in it
[17:56] <LaserJock> didrocks: fine, I had to do a fair amount of figuring out weird seed stuff when I did Edubuntu
[17:57] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, fighting for CD space. Every 6 month I have to do that also for the french remix we ship in ubuntu-fr
[17:57] <LaserJock> didrocks: yeah, I kinda fixed that with Edubuntu by going to a DVD ;-)
[17:57] <LaserJock> but then it got to 3.5 GB real quick
[17:57] <didrocks> heh, easy fix, but dangerous one :)
[17:58] <LaserJock> but UNE doesn't ship gimp or OO.o right?
[17:58] <LaserJock> I'd think it'd be decently smaller than Ubuntu
[17:59] <didrocks> LaserJock: it ships OOo again due to community feedback
[17:59] <didrocks> I removed calc this morning because we are already oversized
[17:59] <LaserJock> ahh, dar
[17:59] <LaserJock> *darn
[18:00] <LaserJock> I love abiword and gnumeric
[18:00] <didrocks> we'll see, that's still not the final decision, we depend on a lot of parameters, CD size being the main one :)
[18:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:00] <didrocks> the main issue is the lack of presentation software (odp reader)
[18:01] <didrocks> because that's a typical netbook usage: go over a conference and make a talk
[18:04] <LaserJock> didrocks: the latest daily has both OO.o and abiword/gnumeric
[18:05] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, I changed that this morning, we'll see tomorrow
[18:05] <Sarvatt> anyone still getting the sigquit and gdm restart when pressing enter after first boot issue? go figure after I build a kernel module to track where the quit signal is getting sent from I stop getting the problem
[18:07] <didrocks> Sarvatt: uninstall plymouth
[18:08] <Sarvatt> yeah I know that fixes it but I want to track down why :) its not happening with plymouth installed anymore here though
[18:08] <didrocks> Sarvatt: for me installing/uninstalling plymouth was the way to trigger/removed the issue
[18:08] <didrocks> oh really?
[18:08] <didrocks> I had that issue in that box, I can maybe reinstall plymouth and give it a try
[18:09] <didrocks> but lately some people still got the issue today (didn't know if they were up to date)
[18:10] <pitti> rickspencer3, didrocks: ooh
[18:10] <Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/trace-signal.c -- kernel module that will give more info on whats sending the quit signal to X's controlling tty when it happens
[18:10] <Sarvatt> build instructions at the top of the source
[18:10] <pitti> rickspencer3, didrocks: so the netbook CD has *both* OO.o and abiword/gnumeric
[18:10] <rickspencer3> oops
[18:10] <didrocks> pitti: why? it's not in the seed
[18:10] <pitti> didrocks: apparently something pulls it in
[18:10] <didrocks> (I rechecked)
[18:11] <pitti> I rebuilt netbook-meta now, about to upload
[18:11] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[18:11] <didrocks> and it's still there?
[18:11] <didrocks> so, ok, let me see the build log
[18:11] <pitti> didrocks: it officially added OO.o back, but that is already in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/daily-live/20100219/lucid-netbook-i386.manifest
[18:11] <didrocks> (good debug seed experience ;))
[18:11] <pitti> dropping abiword/gnumeric should free space
[18:12] <didrocks> pitti: I guess I have to look at the metapackage build log, right?
[18:12] <pitti> didrocks: just the changelog
[18:12] <pitti> the build log of *-meta is very dull
[18:13] <pitti> didrocks: rather, it'd be interesting to know what pulled in openoffice.org on the current netbook CD
[18:13] <pitti> didrocks: i. e. by booting it and checking apt-cache rdepends
[18:13] <pitti> didrocks: or, checking http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/netbook.lucid/rdepends/openoffice.org/
[18:13] <didrocks> pitti: we added back OOo yesterday
[18:13] <desrt> hello desktop people
[18:14] <pitti> didrocks: yes, but only to the seed, netbook-meta wasn't rebuilt yet
[18:14] <pitti> hey desrt
[18:14] <rickspencer3> hello desrt
[18:14] <didrocks> hey desrt
[18:14] <desrt> any cool new tricks for alpha 3?
[18:14]  * rickspencer3 needs to blog about that
[18:14] <didrocks> pitti: oh, the CD is not from yesterday's seed?
[18:14] <desrt> rickspencer3: :)
[18:14] <pitti> didrocks: no, live fs is built from netbook-meta, plus live seed
[18:15] <pitti> didrocks: anyway, might be a seeding problem. openoffice.org-help-en-us Depends: openoffice.org-writer | language-support-translations-en
[18:15] <rickspencer3> desrt, I started a list
[18:15] <pitti> didrocks: but the latter doesn't exist any more
[18:15] <rickspencer3>  Desktop start time,  Social from the Start ,  Compiz effects
[18:16] <pitti> ccheney, didrocks: so we'd need to fix the dependencies in OO.o to account for the fact that language-support-* is gone
[18:16] <desrt> rickspencer3: i heard ken is working hard on the fspot editing thing
[18:16] <rickspencer3> those are the "featurey ones"
[18:16] <rickspencer3> desrt, yes!
[18:16] <rickspencer3> desrt, I still think the plan we came up with at UDS was a good one
[18:16] <didrocks> pitti: hum, how can it be an issue for the seed? we just ask for something that doesn't exist, so it's not pulled in, right?
[18:16] <pitti> ccheney, didrocks: IOW, -help and friends shouldn't depend on oo.o any more, if we want to stop shipping oo.o at some point on netbook
[18:16] <desrt> rickspencer3: ya.  me too.  i've run it by a few people and it's a hit.
[18:17] <pitti> didrocks: right, I was wrong, it's not a seed bug (I thought so at first)
[18:17] <rickspencer3> well, there is the ant-mono crowd that has some complaints :/
[18:17] <desrt> rickspencer3: when we were thinking up the plan i was thinking "ok.  this will be nice but i'll never use it...."
[18:17] <desrt> rickspencer3: but i'm running the patched eog now and it's actually *really freakin useful*
[18:17] <rickspencer3> really?
[18:17] <desrt> ya
[18:17] <desrt> i got it wired into GIMP
[18:17] <rickspencer3> desrt, that's really cool
[18:17] <rickspencer3> nice
[18:18] <desrt> i often find that i take a picture of something that i want to upload somewhere
[18:18] <rickspencer3> desrt, that is really cool
[18:18] <rickspencer3> *nod*
[18:18]  * pitti is sorry that he has to drop German langpack from amd64 and French langpack from i386
[18:18] <desrt> so i'll take a few shots... load 'em up on the computer to see what's best
[18:18] <ccheney> pitti: ok i am needing to do a new OOo upload today anyway, so what should i change for it, just remove all the language-support-* alternates?
[18:18] <desrt> *flip through with eog*
[18:18] <LaserJock> I sure wish there was a good alternative to F-spot for photo management for netbooks
[18:18] <desrt> "ok.  this one"  *open with gimp*
[18:18] <desrt> that just got lots easier :)
[18:18] <pitti> ccheney: yes, since they are gone they can just disappear
[18:18] <desrt> *edit edit edit*  *upload*
[18:18] <rickspencer3> desrt, would you do "open with f-spot?" as it has uploading to certain service built in
[18:19] <rickspencer3> or will you stick with gimp?
[18:19] <ccheney> pitti: and you said something about OOo-help needing to drop dependency on OOo itself, or did i read that wrong?
[18:19] <desrt> rickspencer3: the patch is written so that it takes a .desktop file name from gconf and opens with that
[18:19] <pitti> ccheney: once ArneGoetje is back I need to discuss the fate of language-support-en with him; that one still exists apparently
[18:19] <rickspencer3> hmm
[18:19] <desrt> rickspencer3: (including getting the toolbar icon from the desktop entry)
[18:19] <rickspencer3> nice!!
[18:19] <pitti> ccheney: we'd need that if we ever want to ship OO.o help, but not OO.o
[18:19] <desrt> it's in my PPA if you want to try it
[18:19] <pitti> ccheney: but on second thought this would be weird
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: so don't bother about this for now
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: I'll discuss it with Arne next week
[18:20] <rickspencer3> desrt, I just looked, it is hot!
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: now that OO.o is back on netbook it's not urgent
[18:20] <ccheney> pitti: ok so its fine just to drop the language-support-* bits then for now?
[18:20]  * rickspencer3 adds open with -> photobomb
[18:20] <rickspencer3> j/k
[18:20] <didrocks> pitti: I'm trying to rebuild the metapackage to have a look about what's triggering OOo
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: please keep the -en ones (since that package still exists), the rest can go
[18:21] <didrocks> pitti: with abiword and gnumeric
[18:21] <ccheney> pitti: ok will do
[18:21] <desrt> rickspencer3: some sort of 'upload this one' functionality might be cool
[18:21] <pitti> ccheney: thanks
[18:21] <rickspencer3> ooh
[18:21] <ccheney> pitti: the various dictionaries, etc that do that also can be fixed or go back to sync with debian now too :)
[18:21] <pitti> ccheney: anyway, I think that should help to drop the delta of quite some spell/thesaurus/etc. package, right?
[18:21] <rickspencer3> like you could make a really simple app that takes a picture and uploads it, make the .desktop file, done!
[18:21] <ccheney> pitti: yea
[18:21] <desrt> rickspencer3: ya.  sure.
[18:22] <ccheney> pitti: should remove the need for delta at all in many cases from what i remember
[18:22] <pitti> ccheney: syncing is fine; nevermind explicitly uploading them, the extra deps don't actually hurt
[18:22] <desrt> rickspencer3: i think that at that point we'd want to move toward better integration though
[18:22] <ccheney> pitti: ok
[18:22] <desrt> rickspencer3: it's one thing for us to say "ok.  fspot is how you edit apps on ubuntu, and if you don't like that, edit gconf"
[18:22] <desrt> quite another for us to say "flickr is the photo service you use with ubuntu"
[18:22] <didrocks> pitti: if I rebuild the netbook metapackage, I got: removed abiword and gnumeric, so everything's should be fine on next CD rebuild when you promote the new metapackage, right?
[18:23] <rickspencer3> desrt, open with -> has a list for me
[18:23] <pitti> didrocks: already uploaded netbook-meta
[18:23] <pitti> didrocks: yes, once that's published, we'll rebuild CDs, and they should be fine
[18:23] <desrt> rickspencer3: i mean for default actions
[18:23] <rickspencer3> ah
[18:23] <desrt> "preferred photo upload site" sort of like how we have preferred apps for email, browser, etc
[18:23] <rickspencer3> right
[18:23] <didrocks> pitti: sweet, we'll see the cd size then
[18:23] <desrt> *shrug*
[18:24] <rickspencer3> desrt, well, if would could just add cropping to eog, then it would get a lot simpler
[18:24] <desrt> rickspencer3: and maybe redeye and brightness/contrast
[18:24] <rickspencer3> yeah
[18:24] <desrt> it already has rotate there... so obviously the infra exists for editing pictures and saving the changes
[18:24] <rickspencer3> but cropping (imh and probably wrong o) is sort of the minimum to not need another editor "most of the time"
[18:24] <desrt> maybe we could use GEGL or something?
[18:25] <desrt> yes.  cropping is certainly the thing i find myself most usually doing
[18:25] <desrt> oh.  and scaling.
[18:25] <rickspencer3> I looked at writing a plugin, but the plugin arch. seemed all about editing meta data
[18:25] <desrt> don't want to upload massive 290842megapixel pictures
[18:25] <rickspencer3> true
[18:25] <desrt> ya.  i tried the plugin route too, but it's a little too constrained.
[18:25] <pitti> ok, I think I got all sponsoring/NEWing/seed shuffling done
[18:26] <desrt> rickspencer3: you guys should consider getting someone on it for next cycle
[18:26] <pitti> kenvandine, didrocks, rickspencer3: do you still have anything for me?
[18:26] <rickspencer3> desrt, maybe
[18:26] <desrt> "add crop and scale to eog"
[18:26] <kenvandine> pitti, nope
[18:26] <didrocks> pitti: for me, all is fine, you can enjoy your week-end :)
[18:26] <rickspencer3> we're a community distro, so if someone wants to contribute that, we'd certainly be all over it
[18:26] <kenvandine> :)
[18:26] <rickspencer3> maybe someone on the team will be inspired to as well
[18:27] <pitti> sweet, have a nice weekend then!
[18:27] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[18:27] <didrocks> have a nice week-end pitti
[18:27]  * rickspencer3 things of silly long taking task to assign to pitti
[18:27] <desrt> rickspencer3: i really hate hearing the words "community distro" out of you guys :p
[18:27] <kenvandine> have a great weekend pitti!
[18:27] <rickspencer3> desrt, oh?
[18:27] <desrt> pitti: ciao :)
[18:27] <pitti> rickspencer3: sorry, the timeout just elapsed :)
[18:27] <rickspencer3> pitti, bye bye
[18:27] <rickspencer3> ttynw
[18:28] <desrt> rickspencer3: ubuntu desktop == canonical (within 90% certainty)
[18:28] <rickspencer3> huh
[18:28] <desrt> even if it's not true (and i really think it is), it's at least the perception
[18:29] <rickspencer3> could be
[18:29] <desrt> and canonical is a big company with lots of staff
[18:29] <rickspencer3> I know we work with lots of differnet communities and work our asses off integrating contributions from all over
[18:30] <desrt> yes.  in a sense, the pure essense of being a distribution is integration
[18:30] <rickspencer3> and I spend hours every week talking to all different project leaders and community folks
[18:30] <desrt> practically by definition, in fact
[18:30] <rickspencer3> right, that's what we do ... deliver the latest and greatest to users in a form that works
[18:30] <desrt> it's true.  i use it because it's the best thing going.
[18:30] <rickspencer3> heh
[18:31] <desrt> people always expect more, of course
[18:31] <rickspencer3> I think there is room for lots of different kinds of distros
[18:31] <rickspencer3> like some distros are really sort of upstreams for products or services they sell into companies and such
[18:31] <rickspencer3> so they get their requirements from organizations that they sell into
[18:31] <rickspencer3> that's cool too, because it's good to do things that work for people deploying desktops and servers

[18:48] <ccheney> pitti: so language-support-* is going to be removed as NBS at some time in the future i guess? I still see them all in the archive at present
[20:02] <didrocks> time to rest a little
[20:02] <didrocks> have a good week-end everyone :)
[20:03] <james_w> you too didrocks
[21:53] <rickspencer3> bryceh, wow, congrats on the -nv -nouveau transition
[21:54] <Nafai> what's this?
[21:54] <bryceh> rickspencer3, feels really good to have it finally crossed off the list
[21:55] <bryceh> rickspencer3, we still got some work around drm to do post-a3 but I suspect that'll be pretty straightforward
[21:55] <rickspencer3> Nafai, well, basically, Ubuntu starting tomorrow I guess, will have a different open source driver installed by default
[21:55] <Nafai> of cool
[21:55] <jcastro> one that's maintained!
[21:55] <rickspencer3> so that you get a nice boot experience even if you have nvidia hardware
[21:55] <Nafai> s/of/oh/
[21:55] <Nafai> What's the advantage of using the proprietary drivers?  (I've always just used them)
[21:55] <Nafai> Can I still get compiz with nouveau?
[21:56] <rickspencer3> Nafai properietary drivers are 1. 3d, 2. faster, 3. support new hardware faster, etc...
[21:57]  * Nafai nods
[21:57] <rickspencer3> Nafai so, no compiz
[21:58] <rickspencer3> but maybe someday
[21:58] <Nafai> Sticking with the proprietary ones for now then :)
[21:58] <rickspencer3> right, but of course we can't ship those by default
[21:58] <rickspencer3> and some folks don't want to use proprietary goo
[21:59] <rickspencer3> sadly, I always buy Dell because I can use the sweet Intel Open Source goodness for graphics, but my mini came with broadcom wireless :/
[21:59] <rickspencer3> but who uses wireless, really?
[21:59] <rickspencer3> corner case
[22:00] <bryceh> hehe
[22:00] <rickspencer3> anyway congrats bryceh, and please TAKE THE WEEKEND OFF!
[22:00] <rickspencer3> there's been too much stress around here, we need to recharge batteries
[22:01] <rickspencer3> it's a marathon, not a sprint
[22:01] <rickspencer3> (and other manager platitudes)
[22:01] <rickspencer3> work smarter, not harder?
[22:01] <bryceh> I hope to do so...  I did promise apw to do some testing of some of his new drm stuff.
[22:01] <rickspencer3> can you do it now, and then know off a bit early?
[22:02] <rickspencer3> know off ?
[22:02] <rickspencer3> read knock off
[22:02] <bryceh> I'm going to try, although I already have a full slate of tasks scheduled for today.  I may be able to squeeze it in
[22:02] <bryceh> or maybe sarvatt or someone can give it some testing over the weekend
[22:04]  * kenvandine heads out... have a great weekend everyone!
[22:07] <rickspencer3> bye bye kenvandine
[22:07] <rickspencer3> have a great weekend yourself
[22:07] <rickspencer3> great job this week!
[22:09]  * rickspencer3 goes back to documenting quickly.prompts
[22:09] <rickspencer3> *yawn*