[01:37] <bryceh> RAOF, hey how are things looking with nouveau at the moment?  got anything worth testing?
[06:35] <RAOF> Hm.  Testing the nouveau->nv->vesa fallback patch would work better if I had xserver-xorg-video-nv or xserver-xorg-video-vesa installed.
[07:01] <RAOF> Strange.  It'll fallback to VESA, but not to nv.
[07:04] <tjaalton> logfile?
[07:13] <RAOF> Bah, it got overwritten.  I'll get a new one.
[07:21] <RAOF> tjaalton: http://pastebin.com/f3d8d0b6c
[07:34] <tjaalton> RAOF: huh, that's funny
[07:38] <RAOF> Yes.
[07:41] <RAOF> tjaalton: http://pastebin.com/f2ab1e6fc is a log with the nouveau kernel module available, if that's interesting to compare.
[07:42] <tjaalton> that looks normal
[07:43] <RAOF> If the vesa DDX isn't available & the nouveau kernel module isn't available, then X just fails to load.
[07:56] <tseliot> RAOF: doesn't it use fbdev instead of vesa?
[07:56] <tseliot> tjaalton: ^^
[07:57] <RAOF> tseliot: Not in my log; X can't load that module (because I don't have the package installed for some reason).
[07:59] <tseliot> I think fbdev should be our first fallback
[08:00] <RAOF> A can change the patch if that's the case.  Will fbdev actually work well, though?  I'm not familiar with it, but isn't our framebuffer going to be vga16fb?
[08:11] <tjaalton> vesa doesn't work at all with kms
[08:16] <RAOF> But if we're falling back to vesa in this case then that means that nouveau has failed, which probably means that kms isn't available.
[08:26] <tjaalton> it can fail for other reasons too
[08:26] <tjaalton> like intel
[08:26] <tjaalton> or ati
[08:41] <bryceh> I've got wayland built
[08:42] <RAOF> Does that have any input yet?
[08:45] <bryceh> haven't booted it yet.  maybe not
[08:45] <RAOF> Heh.
[08:45] <bryceh> just getting it to build is a challenge
[08:46] <RAOF> There's now something worth testing in ppa:xorg-edgers/nouveau
[08:47] <bryceh> awesome, I'll todo that for tomorrow
[08:47] <bryceh> have you had a chance to test it?  any tips?
[08:47] <tseliot> bryceh: are we going to have nvidia cards at the sprint?
[08:48] <bryceh> tseliot, I can bring some, but it'd be for a desktop system
[08:48] <tseliot> right
[08:48] <RAOF> bryceh: Yeah, I've tested it with my laptop; it works :)
[08:50] <RAOF> Well, apart from suspend, because my laptop still doesn't quite manage to actually suspend with the Lucid kernel.
[08:51] <bryceh> tseliot, I'm going to be coming from home each day so if it turns out we want a desktop box we can slap cards into, I can bring one.  and an lcd monitor, kbd, mice, etc. too
[08:52] <tseliot> bryceh: right, I forgot that you live near Portland
[08:52]  * RAOF goes to check on the status of his kernel bisect for that.
[08:53] <tseliot> bryceh: I was asking as I'm not sure that I'll be able to test Jockey today and I'll leave tomorrow
[09:16] <bryceh> gahh buildd's too slow
[09:17] <bryceh> "Start in 49 minutes (2505)"
[09:18] <tjaalton> why not test it locally?
[09:22] <bryceh> tjaalton, it builds fine locally
[09:22] <tjaalton> so autoreconf helped?
[09:22] <bryceh> I didn't have the original problem locally
[09:22] <tjaalton> hmm ok
[09:23] <bryceh> well, but I'm not building in a clean pbuilder environment
[09:29] <vish> tseliot: its happening again :(   gdm log is logging X errors :(
[09:30]  * vish reboots again without splash
[09:40] <vish> same error repeats http://paste.ubuntu.com/365081/ , not sure how it starts :s
[09:41] <vish> not sure why gdm logs it , but i'v noticed one problem , conky stops being displayed for some reason , even if i restart it it wont be displayed
[09:46] <bryceh> tjaalton, rats.  make: autoreconf: Command not found
[09:47] <bryceh> guess tseliot was right, probably needs explicit automate build-dep
[09:48] <tjaalton> autoconf
[10:01] <vish> anyone? any suggestions on how to debug the above error ^ also KMS doesnt seems to setup from xorg.1.log > http://paste.ubuntu.com/365090/
[10:01] <vish> seem*
[10:04] <tseliot> vish: I think I missed the 1st error. I can only see the one about KMS
[10:05] <vish> tseliot: the same error i showed you couple of days ago> http://paste.ubuntu.com/365081/
[10:05] <vish>  not sure why gdm logs it , but i'v noticed one problem , conky stops being displayed for some reason , even if i restart it it wont be displayed
[10:06] <vish> it seems to start after a few hours ... I dont notice any errors when the system is started
[10:07] <vish> the gdm logs just eat my / space :s
[10:08]  * tseliot looks for hints in the -ati driver
[10:09] <vish> thanks :)
[10:55] <tseliot> vish: do videoclips work?
[10:56] <vish> tseliot: yeah , i can watch videos
[11:03] <tseliot> vish: maybe you need this patch? http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/commit/?id=e1200cb89218930d01330ba0114e013438655cce
[11:03] <tseliot> which reverts another commit that we have in Lucid
[11:05] <vish> yeah , maybe , tseliot when was the earlier commit?
[11:05] <vish> this is something very recent  , has been happening since less than 10days
[11:07] <tjaalton> tseliot: umm, that's old
[11:07] <tjaalton> vish: check the kernel changelog then
[11:07] <tseliot> tjaalton: that commit, yes, but we still don't have it
[11:09] <tjaalton> tseliot: how come? the snapshot is from master
[11:18] <vish> kl;'
[11:24] <vish> kl;'
[11:31]  * vish hmm...  still trying to figure out what starts it :s
[11:32] <tseliot> vish: how much ram does your card have?
[11:34] <vish> 2GB
[11:36] <bryceh> tseliot, btw got cairo-drm built
[11:36] <tseliot> bryceh: ah, nice, what was it?
[11:36] <tseliot> vish: really? What does the bios say?
[11:37] <bryceh> you put me on the right track.  just kept throwing deps at it.  libtool, automake, autoconf...
[11:38] <vish> tseliot: ah.. the radeon card is 512mb [i guess] let me check.. how do i check BIOS from session?
[11:38] <tseliot> the easiest way is to just enter the bios
[11:39]  * vish brb
[11:39] <tseliot> bryceh: which explains why it was building in your environment and failed in buildds
[11:40] <bryceh> exactly
[11:41] <tseliot> tjaalton: I guess airlied fixed that in master (after that revert)
[11:42] <tseliot> bryceh: it looks like a few macros in -ati trigger these errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/365081/
[11:43] <tseliot> e.g. BEGIN_ACCEL, FINISH_ACCEL, etc.
[11:44] <tseliot> I'm wondering if we're missing something is mesa
[11:46] <bryceh> weird
[11:46] <bryceh> anyway I'm going to bed
[11:46] <tseliot> good night
[11:46] <bryceh> looks like I've got wayland in the bag, but a few odds and ends to finish up tomorrow
[11:47] <tseliot> sounds good
[11:47] <tseliot> apw: I think we'll be on the same flight to Portland (from Washington DC)
[11:52] <tjaalton> tseliot: I'm confused.. fixed in master means we have it in lucid
[11:52] <tseliot> tjaalton: right, so I was taking back what I said before ;)
[11:53] <vish> tseliot: hehe... 128 MB  .. [with some humbug about being upto 512mb HyperMemory]  so 128 i guess ;D
[11:53] <ripps> Okay, not cool. I've lost my glx extensions in X. I can't start compiz
[11:55] <tjaalton> tseliot: ah :)
[11:56] <ripps> glxinfo just spits out: Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0" a bunch of times
[11:56] <tseliot> ripps: log?
[11:56] <ripps> tseliot: which one?
[11:56] <tjaalton> bryceh: the same build-deps as on every X module :)
[11:56] <tjaalton> which run autoreconf on build
[11:56] <tseliot> ripps: Xorg.0.log
[11:57] <tjaalton> automake, libtool should be enough
[11:58] <ripps> tseliot:  http://pastebin.com/f666e8286
[11:59] <ripps> ookkaayy,,nnooww  mmyy  kkeeyybbooaarrdd  hhaass  ggoonnee  ssccrreewwyy!!
[12:01] <ripps> there, undid an option in keyboard prefences, but I can hold down backspace to delete anymore, I have to press it a dozen times. Wth is going on?
[12:01] <ripps> ^can^can't
[12:01] <vish> ripps: that was something wrong with the >  keybindings reported an issue with the keybinding code not loading yes
[12:01] <vish> ops bad quote :/
[12:03] <vish> ripps: just set the keypress setting again ;) and all will return
[12:03] <tseliot> ripps: try with sudo update-alternatives --config gl_conf and select mesa (if you're using ati), then sudo ldconfig
[12:03] <tseliot> and reboot
[12:04] <ripps> tseliot: ah that was it, it was trying to load it from nvidia-current
[12:05] <ripps> vish: turning on repeated keypressess does this: hheelllloo  wwoorrlldd
[12:05] <ripps> and backspace still doesn't work correctly
[12:06] <tjaalton> ripps: why do you have nvidia installed?
[12:06] <vish> ripps: weird , well for me and a few others the slider was all the way to the left... switching the setting back on and adjusting the slider fixed it...
[12:06] <ripps> tjaalton: I don't know, it installed itself with the recent lucid updates
[12:06]  * tseliot -> lunch
[12:07] <tjaalton> ripps: ok, that's a bug then
[12:07] <ripps> should I remove it?
[12:07] <tjaalton> yes
[12:08] <ripps> tjaalton: oh, i see what happened, my latest mplayer ppa package is pulling it in. Why would it do that?
[12:09] <tjaalton> probably broken libvdpau depends
[12:09] <ripps> vdpau is supposed to be optional, not forced
[12:09] <ripps> it's never forced an nvidia install before, just the one I built an hour ago...
[12:10] <tjaalton> show the deps
[12:11] <ripps> http://pastebin.com/f320e864b
[12:11] <tjaalton> Depends: nvidia-current
[12:12] <ripps> the package is automatically making nvidia-current a depend, how do I change it to a recommend?
[12:12] <ripps> or rather, a suggest
[12:12] <tjaalton> fix the source instead
[12:12] <tjaalton> it shouldn't need to do that
[12:13] <tjaalton> there's libvdpau1 you know..
[12:15] <ripps> tjaalton: but libdpau1 is only available for lucid, what do i do with my hardy->karmic backports?
[12:15] <tjaalton> ripps: your problem :)
[12:17] <ripps> vish: yeah that worked. I wonder how they got set all the way to the left.
[12:57] <ripps> whew... everything worked after I uninstalled nvidia-current. I had to downgrade my mplayer though. I'll have to test some builds to see if I can fix the nvidia-current dependency.
[14:40] <Cobalt> Hello.
[14:41] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: I tried the mainline kernel. It does not load the ath5k driver which I require for wifi connection; modprobe loads it but it does not find the appropriate interfaces, and without that, could not use the most common test-case to reproduce the crash.
[18:05] <Sarvatt> Cobalt: Thats no good, do you have something installed that would interfere with it like madwifi? does grep -R "ath5k" /etc/modprobe.d/ show anything blacklisting it? you might want to try a newer kernel like 2.6.33-rc5 out or try using the lucid kernel instead of the kernel-ppa ones, I do have the same problem as you when I try to use the karmic .31 kernel with newer git libdrm and intel (invalid alignment 4096 errors) and I'm pretty sure it i
[18:05] <Sarvatt> s kernel related. To be honest I would recommend just putting the intel driver on hold with 2.9.1 and still using edgers for mesa and such, thats what I'm doing currently because of all of the problems
[18:06] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: No, I don't. Just Wicd, but that wouldn't interfere.
[18:06] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: grepping shows nothing.
[18:07] <bryceh> morning
[18:07] <Sarvatt> oh thats another can of worms, i have no idea about that because I use network-manager
[18:07] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: The problem occurs before that. There are no wireless interfaces. Wicd is not that low-level.
[18:08] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: I've been withholding upgrading the driver as well, but as it appeared after one of the updates, I thought there was a regression introduced.
[18:08] <Sarvatt> does iwconfig show the network?
[18:09] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: No, it does not.
[18:09] <Sarvatt> was just thinking maybe it changed from ath0 to wlan0 recently
[18:09] <Cobalt> There wasn't _any_ wireless interfaces of any sort. :)
[18:10] <Cobalt> AAAAHHGGHGT.
[18:10]  * Cobalt headdesks.
[18:10] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: You know why no network interface was showing up? That's cos I don't have an Atheros NIC. I have Ralink. Damn, I need to reboot that thing and find out.
[18:11] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: Having said that, it also complained about /proc/mount not working and it was not able to load my Apparmor profiles.
[18:11] <Sarvatt> ahh that'd explain it
[18:11] <Sarvatt> try the lucid kernel
[18:11] <Sarvatt> staging is disabled for the mainline kernel-ppa builds
[18:11] <Sarvatt> yeah theres no apparmor in those
[18:11] <Sarvatt> its a clean kernel, apparmor is a ubuntu patch and not upstream
[18:12] <Cobalt> You have an address handy for those later kernels?
[18:12] <Sarvatt> try 2.6.32-12 from the lucid archives
[18:12] <Cobalt> What about /proc/mount, what is that, and do I need it?
[18:12] <Sarvatt> should be on packages.ubuntu.com
[18:13] <Cobalt> Let me have a look at that.
[18:14] <Cobalt> I had like 15 kernels installed. I pruned it quite a bit, saved about 800MB. So much clutter since I had Hardy in this box.
[18:14] <Sarvatt> /proc/mount? do you mean /proc/mounts?
[18:14] <Sarvatt> packages.ubuntu.com isnt even loading for me, i have a really spotty connection where i am
[18:15] <Sarvatt> RAOF: try adding an alias for lbm-nouveau to nouveau?
[18:15] <Cobalt> Something like that, I didn't grab the exact error message. What does /proc/mounts do? Is that a list of current mounts?
[18:15] <Sarvatt> hmm drmOpen is looking for "nouveau"
[18:15] <Sarvatt> yeah it is
[18:16] <Sarvatt> the lucid kernel should work for you if its just the ralink problem, that would break because its a driver in staging in the kernel and thats not enabled
[18:16] <Sarvatt> in those mainline kernel builds
[18:16] <Cobalt> I see. And Ubuntu includes it for greater hardware support?
[18:18] <Sarvatt> RAOF: maybe something like this? http://sarvatt.com/downloads/0001-lbm.patch
[18:19] <Sarvatt> yep, stuff in staging breaks constantly during the -rc cycle and gets fixed up before the final release usually, would be a major pain to track whats broken and rebuild a bunch of times for the daily kernel builds
[18:20] <Cobalt> I'm new to all that kernel stuff. Wouldn't have known about it.
[18:21] <Sarvatt> alot of the changes for intel are in the kernel, if you're using edgers its usually a good idea to keep that up to date too :D
[18:21] <Cobalt> Do I need to mess with the linux-firmware package?
[18:22] <Cobalt> I couldn't NOT use Edgers either, on that Eee PC, the stock drivers offered like 5FPS at best, with Compiz. And that was as fluid as anything in Hardy, if you didn't go too crazy with effects. I just use a tiny amount of transparency and whatnot.
[18:22] <Sarvatt> what kernel are you using now? -generic -generic-pae or x64?
[18:23] <Sarvatt> intel on karmic shouldnt be bad at all, there shouldnt be much of a difference using edgers. jaunty on the other hand...
[18:23] <Cobalt> Lucid does not seem to have a headers package. I'm using -generic. My 1000H is 32-bit.
[18:24] <Sarvatt> do you need headers? building external modules?
[18:24] <Sarvatt> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/linux-image-2.6.32-12-generic/download
[18:24] <Cobalt> Sarvatt: Yeah, for VirtualBox, via dkms.
[18:25] <Sarvatt> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/linux-headers-2.6.32-12-generic/download
[18:25] <Cobalt> I'm actually getting that package your link is pointing to.
[18:25] <Sarvatt> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/linux-headers-2.6.32-12/download
[18:25] <Sarvatt> err well
[18:25] <Sarvatt> theres a bit more of a problem there
[18:25] <Cobalt> What kinda?
[18:25] <Sarvatt> i dont think the karmic virtualbox works with 2.6.32+
[18:26] <Cobalt> It seemed to compile the modules without complaining, however, I didn't use it. Still, I've not used it much lately (I have it to run XP for Nokia PhoneManager to back stuff up). Been lazy.
[18:26] <Sarvatt> the full featured ones from the virtualbox website work though
[18:26] <Cobalt> I could always boot to something lower just for that.
[18:27] <Cobalt> Ah I see. That's what I use. Not the -OSE.
[18:27] <Sarvatt> gotta run, too much time sitting in the car and i'm late for the next job, good luck with it :)
[18:27] <Cobalt> Thank you again. Will drop in a line about what's going down.
[18:44] <Sarvatt> morning bryce! missed you saying that in all the talk :D
[18:44] <Sarvatt> apw: are your changes to add lbm-nouveau in git anywhere?
[18:45] <bryceh> Sarvatt, https://edge.launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/blue/+packages
[18:46] <herman_> how can i see the driver of my graphic card?
[18:46] <bryceh> your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[18:48] <herman_> is there a specific line?
[18:57] <Sarvatt> it should be really obvious in the first 2 or 3 pages of it, if you can put it on pastebin we can tell you
[18:59] <Sarvatt> this lbm-nouveau stuff really looks like it will cause more problems than just building it with dkms, packing in a whole new drm and such with different names, is it really removing the old drm/ttm and such when it loads? i dont have my nvidia machine handy to mess with it to see
[19:00] <herman_> s
[19:01] <herman_> Sarvatt, i have 3 log's Xorg: Xorg.0.log Xorg.0.log.old Xorg.20.log. What do i put in pastebin?
[19:01] <Sarvatt> 0
[19:02] <Sarvatt> first one
[19:03] <herman_> Sarvatt, here: http://pastebin.com/m76625838
[19:04] <Sarvatt> the i915 intel driver
[19:05] <Sarvatt> version 2.6.3
[19:05] <herman_> version i find
[19:05] <herman_> what line is i915?
[19:06] <Sarvatt> around line 107, its the xserver-xorg-video-intel driver
[19:08] <Sarvatt> i highly recommend upgrading to karmic though, there were quite alot of problems with intel on jaunty
[19:10] <herman_> Sarvatt, it's why i'm asking this to you
[19:10] <herman_> my ubuntu looks "strange"
[19:10] <herman_> maximizing and minimizing is slow
[19:11] <herman_> everything looks slow
[19:11] <Sarvatt> yeah that should be *much* better on karmic
[19:11] <Sarvatt> if upgrading is an option at all
[19:11] <herman_> i will try
[19:12] <Sarvatt> you can try a karmic livecd out and see how much better it will be
[19:12] <herman_> because, this way is terrible
[19:13] <Sarvatt> it was unfortunate but jaunty was released when intel was doing some major restructuring with their drivers and there were quite alot of problems, there are some things you can do to work around it if you want to stick with jaunty though
[19:14] <herman_> and the version 8.10, do you know about it?
[19:16] <Sarvatt> sorry, gotta run for a few minutes but i'll give you some xorg.conf options that will help on jaunty when i get back
[19:16] <Sarvatt> 8.10 is good but 9.10 fixes most of the problems from 9.04, i'd recommend upgrading instead of wiping and downgrading :D
[19:17] <herman_> i understading
[19:17] <herman_> because i work for a project, and we use 8.10 to develop
[19:18] <herman_> Sarvatt, do you have to go out?
[19:42] <Sarvatt> herman_: the "Performance regressions on intel graphics" section on this page might help - http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904
[19:43] <Sarvatt> the Option "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" part in particular helped alot in those days on my system with firefox scrolling speed
[19:44] <Sarvatt> yeah I had to drive to my next job but I'm back now for a bit :)
[19:46] <Sarvatt> from a terminal, type sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add Option "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" at the end of the Device section (but before EndSection) and reboot
[19:47] <Cobalt> Shouldn't logging out and back in again do the trick?
[19:48] <Sarvatt> need to restart the xserver
[19:50] <herman_> Sarvatt, i don't want to disrupt you
[19:51] <herman_> thanks for the help until here
[19:51] <herman_> i will try update my ubuntu to karmic koala
[19:51] <herman_> i'll find you here other days
[19:52] <Cobalt> Well, logging out and in seems to do that.
[19:52] <Cobalt> Gonna reboot to that new kernel.
[20:02] <Cobalt> Gah.  But it does not automatically put my wlan0 interface up. Maybe because the scripts originally look for ra0. Once I do that, things go okay. I still need to test the latest drivers now.
[22:44] <bryceh> my kid's first experience hacking on Ubuntu:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/files/images/ubudutch.jpg
[22:49] <Duke`> a future packager!
[22:58] <virtuald> hack the planet!
[23:07] <Ng> bryceh: laptop on the duvet! think of the airflow! ;o


[00:39] <biabia__> I have a pc, it connects to my wireless network with 64bit wep in windows, but not in edubuntu. i followed the command line setup but dhclient wlan0 doesnt set the ip (yes i tried the gui, also with no luck)
[00:39] <biabia__> any ideas
[00:40] <biabia__> also, it connects fine to my neighbors unsecured networks although the signal strength is low so speeds arent so great
[03:17] <serdar> hi guys
[03:36] <biabia__> hi serdar
[03:36] <biabia__> im a little late, and i must admit my attention isnt strictly devoted to this one channel
[05:10] <johnny> ogra_cmpc, is there a reason that ltsp-build-cli
[05:10] <johnny> oops
[14:09] <allerbest> Hi!
[14:09] <allerbest> Is this the right channel for n00bs who are not getting LTSP to run like the want? ;->
[14:30] <stgraber> allerbest: this one of #ltsp
[14:34] <allerbest> stgraber: thanks


[00:37] <jledbetter> maco, Where ya working?
[02:26] <IdleOne> pleia2: I sent a msg to Hajni recommending they add UbuntuIrcCouncil and freenode staff to the channel access list of -women-hu.
[02:27] <IdleOne> I realize they just today started the channel :)
[03:22] <maco> jledbetter: sourcefire. got the offer today
[03:23] <Cheri703> woo maco! congrats
[03:23] <MichelleQ> nice!!
[03:23] <MichelleQ> congrats!!
[03:24] <maco> thanks
[03:40] <elky> how many -women-xx channels do we have floating around now?
[03:42] <elky> AlanBell, oh, you found all the pieces of the wiki?
[03:45] <IdleOne> elky: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList shows only -women and women-project
[03:46] <elky> yes, but -hu isn't the first
[03:47] <maco> -it maybe?
[03:51] <elky> yeah i think so. but i also don't recall if there's more than that
[05:18] <pleia2> IdleOne: thanks :)
[05:51] <hypatia> woo congrats maco
[06:05] <svaksha> maco: congrats :)
[06:53] <AlanBell> elky: yes, on a partition that wasn't mounted
[06:54] <AlanBell> yay maco \o/
[06:56] <elky> yay
[18:42] <maco> hypatia, svaksha, AlanBell: thanks


[10:00] <fouga> Hello everyone,I got a Kerberos ticket issue on client side.
[10:00] <fouga> Is someone able to help me please?
[10:01] <fouga> Thanks
[10:13] <effendy[m]> Just ask the question, concretely, if you hope to receive any help.
[10:26] <fouga> After connecting on my session to connect with Kerberos and it failed.
[10:26] <fouga> klist:
[10:26] <fouga> klist: Credentials cache keyring persistant not found
[10:26] <fouga> I have to do kinit each time to make it work.
[10:26] <fouga> Do you have an idea why is happening please ?
[10:26] <fouga> effendy[m]
[10:26] <fouga> and How to fix it ?
[10:27] <effendy[m]> No, I've no idea - I've explained the same thing on matrix :) I'm just telling you how to ask the question, it doesn't mean that I know anything about the topic. But this way you have a better change that someone will help you.
[10:28] <effendy[m]> *chance
[11:43] <DWD> Hey, what is the current advice for adding scripts to /etc/update-motd.d/ to run in the 100-* range?  Globbing causes 100 to be run after 10-* and before 50-*.  I've prefixed with x- for now.  Is it worth setting the default script names to be padded with zeros to preserve the order?
[11:50] <DWD> Found this channel on matrix, so I'll move to that account for convenience :)
[12:02] <frickler> DWD-Daniel[m]: my advice would be: don't. if you have anything that needs to run after a 99-* script, then that script obviously should not carry the "always-run-me-last" tag that 99 semantically is
 "DWD-Daniel: my advice would be..." <- Thanks for challenging the idea, it made me realised my eyes deceived me and that the last script in that directory is 98-*, leaving room for use of  `99-*`. I think that leaves a suitable option of using N=99, with a name of `NN-MM-description` to facilitate ordering. Thanks :)
[21:41] <richd> hi, trying to do updates, and apt is timing out getting to ports.ubuntu.com
[21:42] <richd> working for anyone else?
[21:57] <oerheks> richd,  for what ubuntu version?
[21:58] <sergiodj> richd: can you try again?  it's working here now; I think it was a temporary glitch
[22:31] <richd> sergiodj: all good now.  Thanks


[00:00] <Thermi> gn8
[01:19] <aJynks> hey guys.. new user stupid question.... but where is the firefox internet cache in xubuntu?
[01:28] <ridin> aJynks: i think ~/.mozilla
[01:30] <aJynks> ridin, that is where mozilla is but where is the internet cache?
[01:30] <ridin> ~/.mozilla/firefox/<somerandomstuff/Cache
[02:42] <lighta> Hi guys, i'm looking for some help on java, what the real channel name ? #java only on invite
[02:44] <charlie-tca> We don't appear to have a java specific channel, but you should be able to get help in #ubuntu
[02:44] <lighta> ok thanks
[02:44] <charlie-tca> A good reference for channels is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
[02:45] <charlie-tca> there are many others not on that, but that is a good starting point, ususally
[02:46] <charlie-tca> found java too, ##java
[02:46] <charlie-tca> you have to have both # signs
[02:47] <lighta> yeah I tryed this
[02:47] <lighta> but nothing append :(
[02:47] <charlie-tca> I went right to it with /j ##java
[02:48] <lighta> maybe my irc client
[02:48] <charlie-tca> In Xchat, I can just left-click the channel in the window here and go there, too
[02:48] <lighta> you have xchat ?
[02:48] <lighta> tryed all this
[02:48] <charlie-tca> Might be the irc client is cancelling out the second # sign
[02:48] <lighta> still got no other room
[02:49] <charlie-tca> Yes, all I use is xchat and weechat
[02:49] <lighta> and right now your on xchat ?
[02:50] <lighta> well it doescn't really matter, i'll just try java-talk
[02:50] <charlie-tca> yes, I am on xchat now
[02:50] <charlie-tca> but not Xchat-gnome
[03:38] <scrubnub> Ghosts
[03:38] <scrubnub> OF CHRISTMAS PAST
[03:38] <bazhang> scrubnub, xubuntu support question?
[04:06] <ridin> it's the present, he lost
[06:00] <Jyujinkai> anyone use Krusader file manager and docky? Cause the normal way of putting Krusader on docky (by right clicking the icon and going pin to docky) dosn't work.. anyone know how to stick it to docky?
[06:00] <Jyujinkai> ridin, hmm seams ti si just /tmp bgtw
[07:43] <menotknow> hello i have 10.4 and i was wondering how to upgrade to 10.0 and does is it hdmi compatoble
[07:48] <menotknow> p.s i can not get into 10.4 after i upgraded my video card
[07:53] <menotknow> i anyone here?
[07:54] <TheSheep> no
[07:54] <TheSheep> what does "hdmi compatoble" mean?
[07:55] <TheSheep> I mean I assume you meant compatible, but what does that mean?
[07:55] <menotknow> my video card is ran in hdmi and i can not get in xubunt as of now and i was if i upgrade can i get into it with my hdmi
[07:56] <menotknow> i have a radeon hd 5770 video card
[07:56] <TheSheep> !radeon
[07:57] <TheSheep> I don't know much about it, maybe look at that page and if that doesn't help, search the forums
[07:58] <menotknow> i can not get into it so i can not not run any commands its just a black screen
[07:59] <TheSheep> alt+ctrl+f1 should get you to a text console
[08:00] <menotknow> thank you
[08:00] <menotknow> i will try to do what the page told me to do thank you for your help
[08:00] <menotknow> +kudo's
[10:08] <mr_daniel> I need to make some network tests and want to virtualize 2 or 3 three guest systems with Virtual Box
[10:09] <mr_daniel> I though maybe xubuntu is a good choice to do this, because xubuntu is more lightweight then ubuntu is
[10:09] <mr_daniel> what do you think? should I choose xubuntu or another distribution? I have a laptop with 3GB of RAM
[10:14] <Sysi> if you can have 1GB for each OS, doesn't matter
[10:19] <mr_daniel> I also just found lubuntu which uses LXDE intead of Xfce
[10:20] <mr_daniel> Xfce is about 200 MB, LXDE only about 30 MB in size
[10:20] <TheSheep> but looks like win95 :P
[10:20] <mr_daniel> I think I'll first test Lubuntu and see if all software I need is runable, if not, I'll switch to xubuntu
[10:21] <mr_daniel> well, that is not a problem if it looks like Win95 :) I only need a runable Linux environment to make seom network tests
[10:21] <TheSheep> then why do you need gui at all?
[10:26] <mr_daniel> well, I need because the software I use and want to test in different networking environments has a GUI for various reasons
[11:29] <ubuXubu> wow i didnt know there was that much differene between lxde and xfce
[11:30] <Sysi> exept that they have totally different UI?
[11:32] <ubuXubu> correct!
[11:37] <mark76> Hey ubuXubu!
[11:38] <mark76> You mean they have a totally different default UI, Sysi
[11:38] <mark76> Making one look like the other is easy
[11:39] <Sysi> last time i tested, lubuntu looked very nice
[11:39] <mark76> Aye, it does that
[11:39] <mark76> And Xubuntu's not looking too shabby these days either
[11:40] <mark76> It's interesting that both community based spins have chosen a blue palette for the UI
[11:41] <Sysi> blues is default for many things
[11:41] <Sysi> it's safe and still goodlooking
[11:41] <mark76> Waking up one morning and finding your woman done gone left you being one of them
[11:42]  * mark76 plays some d7th chords
[11:42] <mark76> No wait
[11:42]  * mark76 plays some 7th chords
[11:46] <mark76> Xubuntu has come a long way since the days of Rodent
[11:48]  * TheSheep likes greens and yellows
[11:48] <mark76> You love Fluxbuntu then ;)
[11:48] <mark76> You'll love Fluxbuntu then ;)
[11:53] <TheSheep> not really
[11:53] <TheSheep> xfce is optimal for me in terms of window manager behavior
[11:53] <mark76> I was kidding
[11:59] <ubuXubu> howdy mark76
[12:00] <ubuXubu> none of the buntu distro utilizes green as the default?
[12:00] <Sysi> mint
[12:00] <ubuXubu> ahh correct again sysi! you are on fire today!
[12:01] <mark76> Isn't Mint a derivative rather than a distribution of Ubuntu?
[12:01] <TheSheep> mark76: what's the difference?
[12:02] <mark76> Canonical doesn't support Mint?
[12:02] <TheSheep> it's deosn't really support xubuntu either
[12:02] <TheSheep> it recognizes it as an official distro
[12:02] <TheSheep> that's all, I think
[12:03] <ubuXubu> its odd hoe the only actuallt recognize ubuntu and kubuntu
[12:03] <ubuXubu> how*
[12:03] <mark76> It is rather
[12:04] <ubuXubu> the rest are like sateliite editions or something
[12:04] <mark76> I guess it's to discourage forking
[12:04] <ubuXubu> there is a place for the 4 big ones
[12:04] <ubuXubu> its the baziniion others that are not needed
[12:04] <mark76> Yeah
[12:04] <ubuXubu> bazillion*
[12:04] <mark76> The Box based spins
[12:05] <ubuXubu> if all the buntu combined forces to make 4 perfect dsitros, it would be better
[12:05] <mark76> Although, technically...
[12:06] <mark76> By our DEs combined we are
[12:06] <mark76> Captain Ubuntu!
[12:07] <mark76> Anyway, yeah. Technically Lubuntu is a *Box based spin
[12:08] <TheSheep> everything is a derivation, nothing is original anymore
[12:10] <mark76> Spri appears to be dead. So that's one less
[12:13] <ubuXubu> never heard of that one
[12:15] <mark76> It was based around IceWM
[12:15] <mark76> Originally called Icebuntu
[13:06] <Ycarene> Anyone know why I'd lose the ability to use my mouse within applications, lose the ability to alt-tab and lose the ability to switch programs using my mouse, all while my mouse still works to click icons on the desktop?
[13:10] <knome> charlie-tca, you there?
[13:47] <Ycarene> How do I get Xubuntu 10.10 to install the 64 bit flash player?
[14:05] <leoquant> libflashplayer-<IP_ADDRESS>.linux-x86_64.so from the site/ or a mor recent version. unpack it then: sudo cp libflashplayer.so /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[14:06] <leoquant> remark from adobe: We have closed the Flash Player 10 for 64-bit Linux program on Adobe Labs and have made Flash Player “Square” available
[14:56] <charlie-tca> knome: Good morning
[15:07] <share> hello
[15:09] <ubuXubu> welcome to xubuntu share
[15:11] <share> im thinking of installing xubuntu
[15:11] <share> on my old machine
[15:11] <share> the specs are: 434mb ram, 1010mhz cpu, 18gb hdd
[15:11] <share> and what version should i install? 10.04 or 10.10?
[15:12] <likemindead> Either will work. Depends on whether you're more interested in Long Term Support (10.04) or the newer, more bleeding edge (10.10).
[15:14] <share> likemindead: ill try 10.04 then
[15:42] <nordle> Is anyone using Sound Juicer in 10.10?  It's not reading most of my CD's in either DVDRW drive (there are two).  Was fine under 10.04, this is a fresh install but with /home files copied back over.
[15:42] <nordle> "Sound Juicer could not read the track listing on this CD.Reason: Cannot access CD: The specified location is not mounted"
[15:44] <likemindead> Hmmm... I haven't tried Sound Juicer yet in 10.10. Let me go grab a disc, nordle, and I'll give it a try.
[15:45] <Sysi> mount the cd?
[15:47] <nordle> likemindead: It worked fine for the first disc, then failed on the next and the next etc.  Tried the other drive, same issue, rebooted, same issue.  http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1407096#post1407096
[15:47] <charlie-tca> Did enough change that it needs a new config file for 10.10?
[15:49] <nordle> charlie-tca:  I'll try copying the config out and starting afresh... don't want to delete if possible, as took a while setting up the flac,mp3, ogg etc settings :)
[15:51] <nordle> mmm ~/.config/sound-juicer exists but is empty except for an empty genres file.
[16:03] <likemindead> Yeah, worked fine here, nordle.
[16:05] <nordle> likemindead:  cool, can you do 150 of my discs :)  Thanks for checking, so its something to do with me using old configs most likely.  Did you try two different discs?
[16:05] <likemindead> I did.
[16:06] <nordle> I might try asunder, its quite similar.
[16:10] <nordle> Asunder works fine, so i need to delete the sound-juicer configs.  Maybe even gstreamer.
[17:32] <share> damn
[17:32] <share> i can't load xubuntu 10.04 livecd
[17:33] <share> i checked md5 hash and burned at low speed
[17:41] <share> no one knows?
[17:44] <likemindead> Knows what?
[17:49]  * share lol
[18:23]  * charlie-tca thinks we all know
[18:23] <charlie-tca> 42
[21:09] <subspider> hello
[21:09] <subspider> !webcam
[21:27] <subspider> !v4l2
[23:00] <subspider> how do i know wat driver is my webcam using
[23:00] <subspider> ??
[23:06] <Sysi> lspci -k
[23:37] <subspider> hello Sysi
[23:37] <subspider> look o managed to flip my camera
[23:37] <subspider> http://radu.cotescu.com/2009/11/05/flipped-images-ubuntu-webcam/
[23:38] <subspider> if someone have same problem
[23:38] <subspider> at least for me is working


[02:18] <Scary_Guy> "good, used, easy to maintain" pick any two
[12:05] <cmaloney> morning
[14:12] <zarozombie> morning
[14:12] <zarozombie> is it monday again?....
[14:25] <jrwren> wish it were sunday
[14:59] <greg-g> just another manic monday
[15:00] <jrwren> cuz that's my fun day
[15:01] <jrwren> i only somewhat recently learned that song was written by Prince.
[15:12] <greg-g> :)
[15:37] <cmaloney> Ayep
[15:37] <cmaloney> Also: woo woo PyOhio was great
[15:37] <cmaloney> did my talk on The Mediocre Programmer
[15:37] <cmaloney> looking forward to sharing the recording
[15:48] <jrwren> awesome! congrats.
[15:48] <waldo323> it wasn't mediocre either
[15:48] <waldo323> it was well done
[16:54] <cmaloney> Thank you. :)
[17:46] <cmaloney> https://www.windy.com/42.531/-83.133?radar,41.823,-81.961,8,m:eP2adQB <- rick_h
[17:50] <jrwren> wow, that map is beautiful
[17:50] <jrwren> very hard to tell when it will get here when it is coming at that angle
[17:51] <cmaloney> Yeah, Windy is really good for visualizing
[17:51] <cmaloney> darksky.net is also quite nice
[21:32] <rick_h> cmaloney:  what am I looking at?
[21:33] <rick_h> cmaloney:  you're in the hole in the storm?
[21:37] <cmaloney> Nah, was just saying that you were going to get some rain
[21:37] <cmaloney> that's all
[21:37] <cmaloney> https://grayareafestival.io/performances/ <- this seems like a great way to get a broken arm
[21:40]  * rick_h is in toronto and waves at the rain
[21:40] <rick_h> I think it's coming through later though I guess
[21:40] <cmaloney> rick_h: What the heck are you doing in Toronto? :)
[21:40] <rick_h> work sprint
[21:41] <cmaloney> Get back to where I expect you to be, dammit
[21:41] <rick_h> went out to collingwood for mountainbiking over the weekend and now in toronto for work
[21:41] <cmaloney> none of this messing around with work thingies
[21:41] <rick_h> nice to have sprints I can drive to!
[21:41] <cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
[21:41] <cmaloney> Heck, if you're really frisky you could drive back home
[21:41] <rick_h> come friday maybe
[21:41] <rick_h> or saturday
[22:11] <cmaloney> https://www.fediverse.space/


[00:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Ok, that makes sense. So, removing that code would remove Carla's jackd1 compatibility? Seems worth it to me.
[02:25] <OvenWerks> Well no, not quite that easy, J2 is supposed to be API compatable. It would seem that jackd2 has a bug.
[02:26] <OvenWerks> I expect that falktx will remove a few lines of code from carla/catia untill jackd2 is fixed
[02:28] <OvenWerks> The idea was to make j1 and j2 as close to feature compatable as possible... or at least make j2 have everything j1 has exactly as it is and working before depricating j1
[02:30] <OvenWerks> zita-ajbridge will not change and if it works with j1 specific features then this bug effectively means j2 is not yet done in this feature.
[02:33] <OvenWerks> BTW, catia is not quite the same as Carla's patchbay yet.
[02:36] <OvenWerks> despite what falktx said in #lad there is at least one more bug in it... there are "ghost" client boxes for some items. That is, for zita-ajbridge there is a box with port and another one with just the name... but just zita-ajbridge (well maybe other zita things too) this is probably also a J2 difference.
[03:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, so it's basically a bug in J2.
[03:45] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: FYI, I have had someone send me (email) a controls 2.0.5 log file. It says we are using a variable before it is set... two of them but it looks like similar code. I guess there will be a bug fix 2.0.6 tomorrow or Thursday.
[03:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Sounds good.
[19:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]: I think 2.0.6 is ready... have a look I guess
[19:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Ack
[19:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: LGTM. Do you want to tag it or should I?
[19:53] <OvenWerks> you can do that if it all looks ok.
[19:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok.
[20:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: studio-controls in groovy, backports, Fedora Rawhide. Should be in Fedora 33 in 3 days, Fedora 32 & 31 in a week.


[03:53] <londongrl> http://www.renegadetribune.com/jewish-project-white-genocide/
[03:58] <evnmatt> More White genocide, evil Jew spam?
[03:59] <evnmatt> Cool it with the antisemitism, guys.
[04:01] <tsimonq2> +1 evnmatt
[04:02] <evnmatt> tsimonq2, http://www.renegadetribune.com/jewish-project-white-genocide/ <-- this is the link that was posted?
[04:03] <tsimonq2> correct evnmatt
[04:03] <evnmatt> Thank you. I'm looking into it.
[04:03] <evnmatt> It appears to be from an "alternative right" website.
[04:04] <evnmatt> tsimonq2, http://www.renegadetribune.com/realizing-hitler-right/
[04:04] <evnmatt> tsimonq2, Here they have an article glorifying Hitler.
[04:06] <tsimonq2> evnmatt: this isn't the place to discuss this (if you wish to), could you head over to #lubuntu-offtopic?
[04:07] <evnmatt> I want the poster of that content BANISHED from here.
[06:53] <morriswaker> Anyone seen that new Denial film by Becker Street?
[08:59] <kyle> hello
[08:59] <kyle> im trying to use the os
[09:00] <Guest2476> i believe i have installed correct but i have hit a stop
[09:01] <Guest2476> i only see a cmd screen and it keeps asking me to login
[09:02] <Guest2476> when i do, it stays in cmd mode and i see nothing else
[09:02] <Guest2476> hello?
[09:03] <Guest2476> naeil
[09:03] <Guest2476> hello?
[09:15] <kyle69649> join
[09:16] <kyle69649> hello i need help
[09:17] <kyle69649> can anyone help
[09:17] <kyle69649> i can not get passed log in
[09:17] <leszek> kyle69649: just ask a concrete question and you'll see
[09:17] <kyle69649> i am stuck in cmd
[09:18] <kyle69649> screen askes for login then password and it looks like ms cmd screen
[09:18] <leszek> kyle69649: You are able to login via the tty terminal and see a command line instead of the GUI ?
[09:18] <kyle69649> how
[09:18] <kyle69649> yes
[09:19] <kyle69649> yes
[09:19] <leszek> kyle69649: the live system worked fine for you ?
[09:19] <kyle69649> that was what came up when i started the computer
[09:19] <kyle69649> no i did a usb install
[09:19] <leszek> you did a usb install from the live system or the alternate text installer ?
[09:20] <Naeil> what version of Lubuntu you are running kyle69649
[09:20] <kyle69649> i did that and got through that then said had to resart
[09:20] <kyle69649> so i did. now im here
[09:20] <leszek> kyle69649: so in general the graphics card is recognized. Did you try restarting already (entering the command sudo reboot)
[09:20] <kyle69649> im running the 14.00 something
[09:20] <leszek> 14.04 seems pretty old
[09:20] <leszek> the current version is 16.04
[09:20] <kyle69649> ill try restart again
[09:21] <Naeil> it still supported the 14.04 no problem with that. Try to restart and let us know if you still facing the same problem.
[09:21] <kyle69649> ok sys is rebooting
[09:21] <leszek> Naeil: if it is 14.04 and not 14.10
[09:22] <kyle69649> ill let you know in a second
[09:22] <kyle69649> yes, is 14.04.5
[09:22] <leszek> ok that is an LTS version so it is still supported until 2019 at max
[09:23] <kyle69649> and still is prompting via a cmd screen
[09:24] <leszek> kyle69649: try login again and executing: sudo service restart lightdm
[09:24] <Naeil> ^
[09:24] <leszek> hopefully that brings you to the graphical login manager
[09:24] <kyle69649> ok im logged in and trying
[09:25] <kyle69649> wait one
[09:27] <kyle69649> is that exactly what to input into the line? i just tried that and gotunrecognized service
[09:28] <Naeil> dpkg -l | grep lightdm
[09:28] <Naeil> paste your output to paste.ubuntu.com
[09:31] <kyle69649> im using side by side. im talking here via a windows 10, other pc is next to me. how can i paste.. other than copy and input
[09:31] <Naeil> ah okay just tell me what you see then
[09:32] <LuMint> Naeil: would be easier with | gist-paste
[09:34] <kyle69649> when i typed inthe last cmd (grep lightdm) it responded with like a free type  thing and there was no more IO it was just type
[09:34] <kyle69649> i restarted again and am back at login
[09:35] <kyle69649> i will type in my login
[09:35] <LuMint> free type thing? what's that?
[09:35] <Naeil> I am sorry I don't follow!
[09:35] <LuMint> kyle69649: you should for the command to finish. It may take up to 2 minutes if your hardware is old
[09:35] <kyle69649> i could type and there was just it. no output other than that
[09:35] <LuMint> ^ld^ld wait
[09:36] <LuMint> kyle69649: dpkg -l | grep lightdm | gist-paste
[09:36] <LuMint> kyle69649: wait till it gives you a link.
[09:36] <Naeil> LuMint, if I am not mistaken he can't connect :)
[09:37] <kyle69649> im running a net book. dell latitude 2110
[09:37] <LuMint> kyle69649: do you have internet connection?
[09:37] <kyle69649> its a light work laptop i picked up at auction
[09:38] <LuMint> i'm not familiar with its specs.
[09:38] <kyle69649> yes via wifi. should i use hardline for the moment?
[09:38] <LuMint> says nothing to me really. apart from you the fact you probably need to wait up to 2 minutes
[09:38] <LuMint> ^you
[09:38] <LuMint> kyle69649: did you say dpkg -l | grep lightdm | gist-paste and wait for several minutes?
[09:39] <kyle69649> well by our standard very low powered its dell and stock
[09:39] <kyle69649> i will try. wait one
[09:41] <LuMint> actually, it shouldn't be like this... does dpkg -l work?
[09:42] <kyle69649> ya i got error on last, ill try that , wait one
[09:43] <kyle69649> i tried dpkg SPACE -1
[09:43] <kyle69649> dpkg-1
[09:43] <kyle69649> nothing on both
[09:44] <kyle69649> the first one was unknown option -1
[09:44] <LuMint> are you sure you are logged in?
[09:45] <LuMint> what do you mean -1
[09:45] <LuMint> it's -l
[09:45] <LuMint> not -1
[09:45] <LuMint> as in Letter
[09:45] <LuMint> Lima
[09:45] <kyle69649> ...oh
[09:45] <kyle69649> l
[09:45] <kyle69649> ok
[09:45] <kyle69649> trying..
[09:45] <LuMint> it stands for list...
[09:46] <LuMint> you are basically telling the package manager to list all packages...
[09:46] <kyle69649> holy FBALLS
[09:46] <kyle69649> got long list
[09:46] <LuMint> kyle69649: just like in Matrix, huh?
[09:46] <kyle69649> ya
[09:46] <LuMint> now you're a h4x0r
[09:46] <LuMint> dpkg -l | grep lightdm | gist-paste
[09:47] <kyle69649> trying, wait one..
[09:48] <kyle69649> program gist-paste is not intalled.......blah blah
[09:48] <LuMint> never mind gist paste, dpkg -l | grep lightdm
[09:49] <kyle69649> ok
[09:51] <kyle69649> ok sofar i have some red lettering and other
[09:51] <kyle69649> its a list of...
[09:52] <kyle69649> looks like files
[09:54] <kyle69649> liblightdm-gobject-1-0                                                        1.10.6-Oubuntu1                                           i386                   LightDM Gobject client library
[09:55] <kyle69649> that was suposed to be a full line across
[09:55] <kyle69649> but the list continues with a few other things and then is now waiting for another cmd
[09:57] <kyle69649> are you still here?
[10:01] <kyle69649> hello?
[10:03] <leszek> kyle69649: its important that lightdm is listed as installed
[10:03] <leszek> or lightdm-gtk
[10:06] <kyle69649> lightdm comes up with only root can run light display manager. to run as regular user for testing run with the -- test-mode flag.
[10:06] <kyle69649> lightdm-gtk could not be found (cmd)
[10:07] <LuMint> kyle69649: try starx
[10:07] <LuMint> kyle69649: that should start the X server
[10:08] <LuMint> kyle69649: it's basically what lightdm should do, but you can do it manually just as well.
[10:09] <kyle69649> tried starx, got nothing. tried startx and got...
[10:10] <kyle69649> xauthority does not exist
[10:10] <kyle69649> a listing of the xserver data
[10:10] <LuMint> Naeil: I've no idea here
[10:11] <LuMint> kyle69649: try xorg-reconfigure
[10:11] <leszek> kyle69649: and the sudo service lightdm restart does not bring up the graphical login manager ?
[10:11] <LuMint> google the command and try it.
[10:11] <kyle69649>  ya i think i may just try downloading the new os.
[10:11] <leszek> sudo service lightdm restart
[10:11] <kyle69649> ill try xorg
[10:11] <kyle69649> wait one
[10:11] <leszek> that won't work or bring anything as xorg won't start a window manager/desktop
[10:12] <kyle69649> not what i meant. i abreviated. i appoligise
[10:13] <kyle69649> but i tried the cmd and didnt work.
[10:13] <kyle69649> im trying the second
[10:14] <LuMint> leszek: why wouldn't it?
[10:16] <kyle69649> ok so i got    unknown instance when i typed in the sudo service lightdm restart
[10:17] <kyle69649> and now i got nothin.. i have blinking cursor that wont type.. thanks gents, im going to try back at square one and install 16 ver.
[10:18] <kyle69649> it will take a while but ill look for ya if i get somewhere
[10:18] <LuMint> kyle69649: yeah, it should be like that. I'm pretty positive it's not a driver issue.
[10:18] <LuMint> *shouldnt
[10:18] <Naeil> back
[10:19] <Naeil> kyle69649, I think you format and install Lubuntu another time will be a good chance to work
[10:19] <Naeil> Follow a good tutorial to install it
[10:19] <leszek> LuMint: Xorg itself launches only the Xserver but does not execute anything so you will get X with the X cursor thats all
[10:20] <leszek> kyle69649: before wiping try looking into /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see if there is any line starting with E: which means error
[10:20] <leszek> maybe something useful there that explains why it won't start
[10:20] <LuMint> leszek: so basically if Xserver's configs are screwed, no WM/DE will be hooked?
[10:21] <LuMint> Naeil: leszek i think xorg-reconfigure might work
[10:21] <leszek> LuMint: even if they aren't screwed thats what Xorg does only. Its not there for loading WMs/DEs
[10:22] <leszek> Its like pulseaudio. It of itself cannot play music. It is just a music server. And so is Xorg
[10:25] <LuMint> what launches DEs and WMs, then?
[10:25] <LuMint> why is it when i startx, DE launches as well?
[10:25] <LuMint> if it's not the responsibility of xorg
[10:25] <kyle69649> what is de
[10:26] <kyle69649> what is wm
[10:28] <kyle69649> forgive my ignorance, i dont know computing syntax or jargon like you do. i barely learned ruby
[10:30] <LuMint> desktop environment
[10:30] <LuMint> windows manager
[10:30] <kyle69649> ok
[10:30] <kyle69649> thank you
[10:30] <LuMint> something win explorer is responsive for
[10:30] <LuMint> desktop environment is a set of programs
[10:31] <LuMint> kyle69649: lxde is a desktop environment
[10:31] <LuMint> kyle69649: it includes various software like text editor, browser etc.
[10:31] <kyle69649> is the use of 21st century socialisms inapropriate in this environment ie(lol)
[10:31] <LuMint> kyle69649: it also includes the menu at the bottom of your page
[10:31] <kyle69649> ah
[10:32] <LuMint> this component is called lxpanel
[10:32] <LuMint> you can disable it if you do't like it and still have the rest of your DE
[10:32] <kyle69649> i saw ldxe and was able to note that.
[10:32] <LuMint> openbox only provides minimal experience which is pretty enough if you ask me.
[10:32] <kyle69649> lxde
[10:33] <LuMint> for a purely openbox system you can try searching in youtube for crunchbang reviews
[10:33] <LuMint> or bunsenlabs
[10:33] <LuMint> openbox is a WM
[10:33] <kyle69649> ill do that
[10:33] <LuMint> it draws windows basically. and handles it.
[10:33] <LuMint> resizes etc.
[10:34] <LuMint> it's also capable of autostarting stuff you want
[10:34] <leszek> LuMint: startx is a script that executes the .xinitrc script which starts the DE/WM
[10:34] <LuMint> so you can make it into a DE
[10:34] <LuMint> leszek: thanks
[10:35] <kyle69649> so before starting from scratch, i tooled around and got the syntax right and ran the upgrade. im seeing if that solves my problems. simutaneosly, im downloading(on this pc) the lubuntu 16 ver.
[10:37] <kyle69649> explain open box?  do you mean that it is easy to grab and install and use?
[10:38] <leszek> its the window manager that lxde uses by default. So it is already installed
[10:39] <leszek> kyle69649: you can take a look here at what window managers are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager
[10:40] <kyle69649> it is in the process. i have something like an hour to go. its been going for the passed10 min or so
[10:40] <LuMint> kyle69649: i'd recommend using lxde or preconfigured openbox like that in bunsenlabs
[10:40] <kyle69649> now it says 30 min
[10:40] <kyle69649> so idk
[10:40] <LuMint> kyle69649: you'd need to make many things manually to create your own DE based on openbox
[10:40] <kyle69649> im reading on internet about openbox
[10:41] <LuMint> kyle69649: e.g. for desktop wallpaper management you'd have to manually set up either feh or nitrogen
[10:41] <LuMint> kyle69649: lxde does it for you.
[10:41] <kyle69649> ah
[10:41] <LuMint> but once you've set up your openbox it's just as good as lxde, and prolly even better for your own needs, because you've made it yourself after all
[10:43] <kyle69649> granted. but for a guy like me who has limited working knowlege in programing or even understanding what im looking at, is a open box for me?
[10:44] <LuMint> kyle69649: i'd recommend using lxde or preconfigured openbox like that in bunsenlabs
[10:44] <LuMint> decide for yourself.
[10:44] <kyle69649> ok
[10:44] <LuMint> lxde is built off of openbox
[10:44] <LuMint> kyle69649: just find a description what lxde is
[10:45] <dudz> hi, I'm currently running ubuntu, but i am thinking to switch to lubuntu. I own an Intel NUC5i7RYH which i have an m.2 as my primary storage, i had a 2.5inch ssd installed which i removed yesterday.
[10:45] <LuMint> kyle69649: you can get almost the same experience without lxde but isntalling and configuring things like desktop wallpaper manager yourself.
[10:45] <dudz> prior to the 2.5inch ssd i had a mechanical 2.5inch, i took themechanical out becaus eof heat, and now i have taken the ssd out for the same reason
[10:46] <dudz> i have also disabled the intel turbo feature from the bios
[10:47] <kyle69649> ok.luMint: its saying 15min to go
[10:53] <kyle69649> dudz: so the drives just run hot? hove you played with the fan settings? how long before it shuts down?
[10:53] <kyle69649> no other componets run hot? ie cpu or gpu?
[10:54] <dudz> i think that just the fact that having something in that space instead of air is contributing to holding the heat in the device
[10:54] <dudz> it doesn't shutdown but it was running its fan speed up and creating alot of noise
[10:54] <dudz> this act was also happening regually when ever a update comes out
[10:55] <dudz> if i install the update or not, the fans would speed up and stay up, and the temperature was sitting near boiling point
[10:55] <kyle69649> is this drive large than the stock? did you install extra drive that would take up space thus inhibiting airflow?
[10:55] <dudz> also, when using the microHDMI port, i would experience the graphical glitches that you would see when a video card is overheating, but i don't see this when using the Micro Display port
[10:56] <dudz> the slim of the ssd sized hdd's
[10:56] <dudz> 9.5mm ?
[10:57] <dudz> the nuc case has a slot for a 2.5inch hdd anyway, it fits in that
[10:57] <kyle69649> that one is above me..OH just a dumb question. how old is the hardware? dusty?
[10:58] <kyle69649> if your gpu has heatsink and fan, fan may be cloggedor heatsink
[10:58] <dudz> i bought it this time last yr, so i've had it 1yr now, most of the time i've owned it, it's been spent switched on,
[10:59] <dudz> yeah i need to probably get an air compressor in there, i have not opened the side of the case where the heatsink is since i bought it
[11:00] <dudz> http://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/nuc/nuc-kit-nuc5i7ryh.html
[11:00] <LuMint> dudz: #hardware
[11:00] <dudz> true
[11:00] <kyle69649> well it shouldnt have problem but if you around dirt, dust or what ever it has potential to get in there. as far as the hd, i dont know. did you say that you have tried different ones and get the same heat?
[11:00] <LuMint> i mean, ask em.
[11:01] <dudz> yeah indeed, my text is turning into #hardware
[11:02] <dudz> i have accepted that the NUC5i7RYH just doesn't perform well with a 2.5inch hdd installed, even it has a slot to put one, having one will cause the heat to raise.
[11:04] <kyle69649> holy cow, thats cool for what it is, its like intel tried to create a type of raspberry pi or ardueno micro pc
[11:06] <dudz> i really like it, i wanted a small powerful pc and this does that,
[11:06] <kyle69649> thats not a bad thing, i just find it interesting
[11:12] <kyle69649> ya that may just be intels fault in thinking that the heat management would work out but if you use sd card or usb memory, that could work and i do know that you can find huge thumb drives128gb about
[11:25] <dudz> yeah i'm using 2.5inch usb drives atm for extra storage space, it's just extra desk space, which was the main reason i got a nuc, as i have limited space
[17:11] <n-iCe> Lubuntu 16.10 Final Beta has been released! http://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-yakkety-yak-16-10-beta-2-released/
[17:14] <n-iCe> hi


[00:03] <hatch> danob you can use lxc's
[00:03] <hatch> deploy the charm using the 'local' environment
[00:04] <danob> hatch: i am using lxc's :)
[00:04] <hatch> ohh, well then :)
[00:04] <hatch> so do you just want to test the individual scripts?
[00:12] <marcoceppi> danob: what's your end goal?
[00:17] <danob> hatch: to test individual scripts i am reading juju debug-hooks now, will it do?
[00:17] <hatch> that will allow you to watch the debug logs while the hooks are executing
[00:17] <hatch> but like marcoceppi asked....what is your end goal? What are you trying to achieve here?
[00:18] <marcoceppi> that will allow you to use execute commands as if you were that hook*
[00:20] <danob> marcoceppi: my end gole is to test and debug my charm as if i am just running a python script. i just want to make charm test and debug simple for me.
[00:20] <hatch> er yes and that too....sorry :)
[00:20] <marcoceppi> danob: well, we have two ways to do that. One is to simply unit test your hooks. So if you wrote them in Python you'll want to use unittest module to then test your python code as you woudl any python project
[00:21] <danob> marcoceppi: what is the best workflow for this (test/debug)?
[00:21] <marcoceppi> danob: the other is to write charm tests, however those are desigend as integration tests, which will actually deploy the charm, and other charms
[00:21] <marcoceppi> danob: debug-hooks is not what you want, that's something different
[00:21] <hatch> danob I test mine as individual scripts
[00:21] <hatch> just fyi
[00:22] <marcoceppi> What you want is unittests, and that depends entirely on the language of the charm
[00:33] <danob> marcoceppi: "the other is to write charm tests" like python-django charm?
[00:34] <marcoceppi> danob: there are quite a few charms that have charm tests
[00:35] <marcoceppi> danob: python-django is one example
[00:37] <marcoceppi> danob: memcached is another example, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/precise/memcached/trunk/files/head:/tests/
[00:38] <danob> marcoceppi: hmm thanks :)
[00:40] <danob> marcoceppi: "One is to simply unit test your hooks" in this way can i run config-get in subprocess.call ?
[00:40] <danob> marcoceppi: i think not ryt?
[00:40] <marcoceppi> danob: no, you can't, you would mock calls to config-get and the other hook commands
[00:40] <marcoceppi> you can't run those commands unless the service is deployed in a juju context
[00:41] <marcoceppi> Those only exist in the context of a deployed service in a juju environment
[00:43] <danob> marcoceppi: hmm i understand
[00:46] <danob> marcoceppi: is it possible to develop a emulator to emulate a juju context/environment, I will be happy to contribute that project :)
[00:46] <marcoceppi> I have considered it, but it's not a priority at the moment. You're welcome to try
[00:57] <danob> marcoceppi: hmm, then where I can get full information about 'how juju context/environment created?' or how a charm deployed detail step by step with source code reference? I am not going to start developing by starting a project, just want to know deep inside?
[00:58] <marcoceppi> danob: I mean, we have docs here and there, have you looked at our documentation? http://juju.ubuntu.com/docs
[00:58] <danob> marcoceppi: yes.
[00:59] <marcoceppi> that's pretty much it, if you want to see what the environment looks like, deploy a charm, run juju debug-hooks, then initiage a config change with `juju set <service> key=val`, when the hook gets trapped, you can run config-get, you can type env to see the environment, etc
[01:02] <danob> marcoceppi: hmm thanks :)
[03:09] <milk> could anyone tell me how to promote a mysql-slave to master using juju?
[03:48] <marcoceppi> milk: remove the the slave relation, then recreate the relation with the slave as the master
[03:51] <milk> marcoceppi: there are two units in the mysql-slave service. i want to promote one of them to master and keep the other as slave.
[03:51] <marcoceppi> milk: in short, you can't
[03:52] <milk> hmm....
[03:52] <marcoceppi> those are the units of a service group, so what you could do was deploy a new mysql service as mysql-master, then scale the slave down, then create the relation
[03:53] <milk> but the data would be destroyed.
[03:54] <marcoceppi> milk: stand up the new mysql-master, make it a slave of the mysql-slave, have it sync, break the relation, re-establish as it being master to the slaves, verify data is there, scale down the mysql-slave service group
[03:54] <marcoceppi> or just leave it where the new "mysql-master" is the slave
[03:54] <marcoceppi> and scale down the slave group to only have one
[03:58] <milk> thanks, but it will take too much time for the failover to finish..
[03:58] <milk> i think this single-master-multiple-slave scenorio is a pretty common one.
[03:59] <milk> but juju's model seems not to be able to handle it properly...
[03:59] <milk> :)
[04:07] <marcoceppi> it handles it, just differently than you'd expect
[04:07] <marcoceppi> having master - master replication is a better model embodied in juju
[04:09] <marcoceppi> milk: I've been working on charming this http://www.proxysql.com/ which would make the underlying which is master, which is slave, which do I failover to in juju easier
[04:14] <milk> marcoceppi: i agree, the multi-master databases(like riak) can fit in juju's model easily.
[04:15] <milk> marcoceppi: so, with proxysql, we should put both master and slave into a single service, and let the proxy do the rest of the work?
[04:16] <milk> marcoceppi: and the failover will happen in that service, instead of between two services?( mysql-master and mysql-slave)
[04:16] <marcoceppi> milk: yes, using the same relation schema, then proxy sql would know how to failover. Charms would use proxy sql as a single point of contact, and it'd be configured to fail over to slave and promte slave as  master directly
[04:17] <milk> marcoceppi: so the proxysql would be a subordinate service deployed with the mysql server?
[04:19] <marcoceppi> milk: probably, yes
[04:19] <marcoceppi> milk: could also be a subordinate deployed on the actual application servers
[04:19] <marcoceppi> or both
[04:19] <marcoceppi> proxysql is kind of...flexible in how it can be deployed
[04:19] <milk> marcoceppi: or as a separate principle service..
[04:20] <marcoceppi> that as well
[04:20] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: good news, amulet installs in precise.
[04:20] <milk> marcoceppi: agree. seems no difference.
[04:21] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: with the pkg-test ppa?
[04:21] <lazyPower> I did add that, yes.
[04:21] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: sorry, apparently I killed the wrong process and display server died, going to have to reboot
[04:21] <lazyPower> nbd
[04:22] <lazyPower> do i need to nuke the vm and retry from the juju ppa?
[04:22] <lazyPower> or is it there yet?
[04:23] <milk> marcoceppi: thanks for your time :)
[04:32] <marcoceppi> milk: np! let me know if you have any other questions
[13:31] <tomixxx3> hi, i when i try to enter "instances & volumes" in openstack dashboard, i only get a "Interal Server Error" message. However, i have not deployed "nova-volume". do i need "nova-volume" for this functionality? the same error comes when i try to open "images & snapshots"
[13:40] <marcoceppi> tomixxx3: I don't know if that's required for the dashboard to work but it might be
[13:41] <tomixxx3> marcoceppi: kk, i guess i will figure out this when i actually will USE openstack to deploy my task.
[13:41] <roadmr> tomixxx3: can you "juju ssh openstack-dashboard/0", then go to /var/log/apache2 and look at errors.log? the error should give a clue as to what's wrong
[13:42] <roadmr> tomixxx3: (I *think* it's related to the django version mismatch with grizzly but I haven't looked at it further; yes, I have the same problem)
[13:43] <tomixxx3> apache log says: The request you have made requires authentication. http 401
[18:05] <bitgandtter> hello good day
[18:05] <bitgandtter> can anyone make a successfull deployment of juju on rackspace?
[18:08] <bitgandtter> anyone?
[18:32] <Ming> Is it a way for juju-log log as ERROR?
[18:51] <danob> what will be the best practice if I want to download a *.tar.gz file form charm install python script??
[18:52] <hatch> danob in my latest charm review it was suggested to package it in the charm
[18:53] <hatch> danob but in the current version this is how my Ghost charm does it https://github.com/hatched/ghost-charm/blob/master/hooks/install
[18:54] <danob> hatch: thanks man :) is there any size restrictions in charm store?
[18:54] <danob> hatch: or in juju env?
[18:54] <hatch> not as far as I know...but if it's excessive it might be rejected in review
[18:55] <hatch> I just say 'might' because if it was 1GB I would reject it lol
[18:55]  * hatch is not a reviewer however
[18:55] <danob> hatch: lol
[18:55] <hatch> marcoceppi ^^
[19:09] <rick_h_> danob: you can always do that in a charm you write, but for best results in getting it to users it should be able to work offline
[19:09] <rick_h_> danob: many charms contain a files or releases directory that contains the downloaded file so that it can work offline
[19:10] <rick_h_> danob: I think that's policy for reviewed charms going forward.
[19:11] <danob> rick_h_: hmm
[19:11] <danob> rick_h_: thanks
[19:13] <hatch> danob what charm are you writing?
[19:17] <danob> hatch: i am writing a charm which will deploy apache2 mod and apache2 so i need to download this mod using wget
[19:17] <danob> hatch: this mod is precompiled binary
[19:18] <hatch> ahh did you look into the current apache 2 charm to see if you could use it to add your mod? http://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/precise/apache2
[19:18] <hatch> or maybe enhance it to allow you to add custom mods?
[19:22] <danob> hatch: no, but i will. i was thinking that i will install apache2 using apt-get. i was wanted my own unit like my-charm-name/0
[19:24] <hatch> on deploy you can call a service almost whatever you want
[19:24] <hatch> or you can fork the promoted apache2 charm and make your own modifications to it
[19:24] <hatch> just throwing ideas out there for ya, take them as you will :)
[19:27] <maxcan_> is there any way to configure juju to add a unit to a service wehn a service dies?
[19:31] <danob> hatch: I appreciate ideas :) thanks man
[19:32] <hatch> :)
[19:41] <danob> hatch: if i deploy an apache2 charm then how i put may mod.so file in /usr/lib/apache2/modules and other configuration files in apathe2/0 unit?
[19:44] <danob> hatch: i am confused in here
[19:45] <danob> hatch: can you point me a charm who does this type of operation
[19:45] <danob> if i deploy an apache2 charm then how i put may mod.so file in /usr/lib/apache2/modules and other configuration files in apathe2/0 unit?
[19:46] <danob> i am confused in here
[19:46] <danob> can you point me a charm who does this type of operation
[19:49] <lazyPower_> maxcan_: Example of what you're trying to do?
[19:49] <maxcan_> have resilience against AWS's random killing of ec2 instances
[19:50] <lazyPower_> maxcan_: ah, juju should be doing that automagically if the environment says a service shoul dhave X units, and on a pulse check it realizes it only has 1, it should be spinning up a replacement unit
[19:51] <maxcan_> hm, i'll go back and check
[19:51] <sarnold> lazyPower_: _really_?? cool
[19:51] <sarnold> lazyPower_: though if the billing department sees the other units are still up, that could get expensive :)
[19:51] <maxcan_> IIRC, when I killed an ec2 instance, the machine state went to terminated as did the agent-state but no new machines got spun up
[19:52] <lazyPower_> sarnold: i overheard this prior. Please feel free to correct me if i'm misinformed
[19:54] <lazyPower_> let me bootstrap and validate that statement, 1 moment maxcan_
[19:54] <maxcan_> i'm also on on old version
[19:54] <maxcan_> let me confirm it on my end.. dont want to bother you since i'm not sure
[19:54] <maxcan_> s/sure/certain
[19:54] <lazyPower_> well i just regurgitated information i read in chat, so there's no evidence aside from heresay
[19:55] <lazyPower_> i may have read some late night conversation that's not valid - so i'll check regardless
[20:02] <lazyPower_> maxcan_: ok i'm seeing the machine terminated status on 1.17.2
[20:02] <lazyPower_> so the behavior you are seeing is by design, i was misinformed.
[20:02] <hatch> maxcan_ you are probably looking for something like what https://landscape.canonical.com/ provides
[22:26]  * timrc considers writing the charm for: https://github.com/robmerrell/hipsterdb
[22:45] <lazyPower_> timrc: do it!
[22:46] <timrc> lazyPower_, ;)
[22:50] <lazyPower> The icon for the service would have to randomly not show up though, because it became too mainstream


[11:53] <thecliff> How would I obtain an Ubuntu cloak?
[11:57] <topyli> thecliff, are you an ubuntu member?
[11:58] <thecliff> I am yet a member.
[11:58] <thecliff> *I am not yet a member.
[11:58] <topyli> well, you should become one :)
[11:59] <thecliff> I just hoped to show my support for the community.  I am working towards it.  I want to continue contributing until I have reached the point that I can apply for membership.
[12:01] <topyli> sounds like a plan! meanwhile, you can get an unaffiliated cloak if you like, you seem cloakless right now
[12:02] <thecliff> I am.  It is my first time using IRC in years.
[12:02] <topyli> oh. welcome back :)
[12:02] <thecliff> :) ty.
[12:09] <thecliff> For an unaffiliated cloak, all I can find is to ask a network staffer to turn it on.  Am I missing something?
[12:09] <erUSUL>   #freenode
[12:09] <thecliff> ah, ty
[12:17] <thecliff> cloaked.  thanks for the heads up.  How much does one generally have to contribute to become a member?  I am currently working in the forums and starting on the Documentation Team
[12:33] <elky> !membership
[12:36] <thecliff> ty
[19:25] <guntbert> any advice how to handle a help request for installation of thc-hydra (a password breaking app) in #ubuntu ?
[19:35] <m4v> I would usually refuse to help with that stuff, since it isn't related to Ubuntu.
[19:36] <guntbert> m4v: agreed - I was more concerned with the possibilities to help with something illegal
[19:37] <m4v> "password audit tools" is a sysadmin thing, he should know how to use it if he's really a sysadmin
[19:38] <guntbert> m4v: thx
[21:48]  * Tm_T huggles good night all
[21:52] <guntbert> gnight Tm_T


[01:08] <doko> infinity: looks, like I messed up the archive ... did upload both gcc-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu3 and gcj-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu3, but didn't see the dependency libgcj6: gcc-4.0-base (= 4.0.2-ubuntu3), which did break with the ubuntu4 upload. now ubuntu5 doesn't build anymore ...
[01:25] <infinity> doko : Yeah, we've noticed this.
[01:34] <doko> infinity: anyway, just uploaded another package to build without gettext
[02:17] <lamont> doko: another _what_ package?
[02:30] <lamont> doko: gcj-4.0 still build-depends debhelper, which is uninstallable...
[02:31] <lamont> or do we just downgrade the chroots, I wonder...
[06:24] <fabbione> morning
[06:24] <fabbione> doko: why does gjc run the gcc testsuite?
[06:24] <fabbione> gcj
[06:25] <fabbione> make[3] : Entering directory `/build/sparcbuildd/gcj-4.0-4.0.2/build/gcc'
[06:41] <fabbione> doko: ubuntu6 is still FTBFS
[06:43] <infinity> doko : Meh, I'm going to jave to bootstrap this to unbreak it, aren't I?
[06:51] <fabbione> doko: please stop uploading now and give us the time to bootstrap it
[06:51] <fabbione> otherwise katie is NOT happy about old binaries with new sources around
[06:51] <fabbione> infinity: afaict it's debhelper that can't be installed
[06:52] <fabbione> checking how to unroll the loop
[06:53] <infinity> Unrolling it is simple enough.
[06:53] <fabbione> infinity: yeah it gets down to gettext libgcj6 again
[06:53] <fabbione> nothing fancy if you have the old binaries somewhere
[06:53] <infinity> Yup, which is easy enough to fix.
[06:54] <infinity> Easy enough if ou don't have the old binaries, too.
[06:54] <infinity> dpkg has --force flags for a reason. :)
[06:56] <fabbione> yeah
[06:58] <fabbione> there we go
[07:04] <fabbione> this is like
[07:04] <fabbione> cp gcc... gcj
[07:04] <fabbione> vi debian/rules
[07:04] <fabbione> upload
[07:18] <infinity> Oh, cock.
[07:19] <fabbione> what?
[07:19] <infinity> E: Package libc6-dev-i386 has no installation candidate
[07:19] <fabbione> eh?
[07:24] <infinity> Oh, never mind, that's just apt being retarded.
[07:48] <lamont-away> dpkg-gencontrol: error: package gcc-4.0-hppa64 not in control info
[07:48] <lamont-away> dh_gencontrol: command returned error code 65280
[07:49] <fabbione> lamont-away: i won't be surprised if it will FTBFS on all arches at the end of the build
[07:50] <fabbione> lamont-away: there is ubuntu6 out anyway
[07:50] <fabbione> you might want to give it a shot
[07:50] <lamont-away> did anyone start uploading new packages for the transition, or is that still waiting?
[07:50] <lamont-away> that was ubuntu6
[07:50] <lamont-away> gcj-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu6_20051122-1842
[07:50] <fabbione> i think nobody is uploading giving that everything is FTBFS
[07:50] <fabbione> and it will be until this gcj thing is fixed
[08:02] <infinity> Well, gcj is being built right now in the DC.
[08:02] <infinity> So you guys better sort your issues. :)
[08:04] <fabbione> infinity: let see if it builds at DC :)
[08:04] <fabbione> it might as well be FTBFS there too
[08:13] <infinity> I have faith.
[10:45] <infinity> Alright, gcj-4.0 has built on all the DC arches.
[10:46] <fabbione> infinity: i hate you :)
[10:51] <infinity> Meh, it doesn't matter anyway, doko messed up that upload too.
[10:51] <fabbione> ah
[10:51] <fabbione> how?
[10:51] <infinity>   libgcj6: Depends: gcc-4.0-base (>= 4.0.2-4ubuntu6) but 4.0.2-4ubuntu3 is to be installed
[11:32] <doko> hrm, I shouldn't do uploads in the early morning ...
[12:08] <doko> lamont-away: what is this thing about gcc-4.0-hppa64?
[12:36] <infinity> doko : Thanks for the upload, I'll bootstrap it in 5 mins.
[12:37] <doko> infinity: hmm, it should build on it's own?
[12:38] <infinity> debhelper -> po-debconf -> gettext -> libgcj6
[12:38] <fabbione> doko: is there any reason for gcj to build gcc and even run the testsuite?
[12:38] <infinity> Anyhow, seedin chroots and doing manual builds right now.
[12:42] <doko> fabbione: you have to build gcc to build gcj, yes, I'll disable the testsuite for all but libjava
[12:43] <fabbione> doko: can't we use external gcc?
[12:43] <fabbione> given that we build it with testsuite and stuff
[12:43] <infinity> Okay, building everywhere.
[12:44] <infinity> doko : Please don't upload again until these binaries are all installed.
[12:44] <doko> fabbione: but then you'll miss the bootstrap comparision for gcj
[12:44] <doko> infinity: yes ...
[12:44] <fabbione> (including SCC please)
[12:45] <fabbione> doko: hmm ok..
[12:50] <fabbione> ubuntu7 building here
[12:51] <fabbione> let's hope it's not FTBFS
[01:00] <doko> Riddell: looks like you can't use 4.0 for KDE on hppa yet. See PR21123
[01:01] <doko> fabbione: how far did the previous gcj-4.0 versions build?
[01:02] <fabbione> about 3.6MB of log
[01:02] <fabbione> probably more
[01:02] <fabbione> let me check
[01:02] <fabbione> 4708 -rw-r--r--  1 sparcbuildd sparcbuildd 4808189 Nov 23 06:32 gcj-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu5_20051122-2142
[01:02] <fabbione> but then i did stop it
[01:02] <fabbione> because of the new versions coming in
[01:02] <fabbione> and gcj is not exactly ccache friendly
[01:03] <infinity> It would be if it used the system compiler instead of bootstrapping its own. :/
[01:03] <infinity> doko : I hope that's something you intend to fix before you push these changes to Debian...
[01:03] <fabbione> it appears it can't be done
[01:04] <infinity> Don't see why not.
[01:04] <fabbione> fabbione doko: can't we use external gcc?
[01:04] <fabbione> doko fabbione: but then you'll miss the bootstrap comparision for gcj
[01:05] <doko> infinity: so ccache does understand java?
[01:06] <infinity> Where there's a will, there's a way.
[01:06] <infinity> doko : Oh, no, but isn't gcj itself in C?
[01:06] <doko> think about it ...
[01:06] <infinity> Or does it build with gcj?
[01:06] <doko> yes, you'll save about 10 source files
[01:07] <doko> it's libjava which does consume the time
[01:07] <infinity> Well, yes, libjava is huge and painful.
[01:07] <doko> java doesn't know anything about "preprocessed source", so ccache is not possible
[01:07] <infinity> But you're bootstrapping a full GCC as well here.
[01:07] <doko> no, not full, just java
[01:07] <infinity> Surely that can be done away with.
[01:07] <doko> fabbione doko fabbione: but then you'll miss the bootstrap comparision for gcj
[01:08] <infinity> doko : I see a full n-stage xgcc build going on here...
[01:09] <infinity> With some makefile fiddling, I don't see why one couldn't start a bootstrap of gcj using the system C compiler, s'all I'm saying.
[01:10] <doko> infinity: you can do that, but that's not longer a "bootstrap"
[01:10] <infinity> (The eventual goal being to split out most of the esoteric compilers to their own self-contained source packages)
[01:10] <infinity> doko : Sure, it's a gcj bootstrap, just not a gcc bootstrap.
[01:10] <doko> no that's crap, and I won't do that
[01:10] <Riddell> doko: yeah, I saw the debian guys had problems
[01:10] <Riddell> doko: all other arches OK for gcc 4?
[01:10] <doko> Riddell: looks so
[01:11] <Riddell> doko: am I ok to start uploading?
[01:11] <infinity> Riddell : Nothing will build until gcj is in the archive anyway.
[01:11] <Riddell> bah, who uses gcj anyway :)
[01:11] <doko> Riddell: gettext
[01:12] <fabbione> java sucks
[01:12] <fabbione> it should die
[01:13] <fabbione> infinity: a global give back is fine.. assuming ubuntu7 is ok
[03:51] <lamont-away> doko: that's the gcj-4.0 build failure on hppa
[03:52] <lamont-away> http://buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/g/gcj-4.0/4.0.2-4ubuntu6/gcj-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu6_20051122-1842-hppa-failed.gz
[03:53] <lamont-away> dh_testroot
[03:53] <lamont-away> : # provide as and ld links
[03:53] <lamont-away> dh_link -p gcc-4.0-hppa64 \...
[03:53] <lamont-away> now that's amusing...  for gcj-4.0 :-)
[03:54] <lamont-away> wow.  -4ubuntu7 started building 2.5 hours ago.  that's cool
[03:55] <lamont-away> 2/3 of the way to where it died last time
[03:55] <lamont-away> infinity: btw, thanks for dealing with all the DC architectures
[04:06] <doko> lamont-away: it will fail again
[04:06] <lamont-away> doko: I see.
[04:06] <lamont-away> eta for -7?
[04:06] <lamont-away> er, -8?
[04:06] <lamont-away> I should just kill the build of -ubuntu7 then?
[04:10] <doko> lamont-away: infinity did tell me to wait with a new upload until the packages are in the archive
[04:11] <infinity> doko : They're in.
[04:15] <doko> infinity, fabbione: sparc as well?
[04:17] <infinity> Negative.
[04:17] <infinity> When sparc has gcj binaries uploaded, you'll see them here:
[04:17] <infinity> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/g/gcj-4.0/
[04:18] <infinity> I suspect it may have failed to build.. Or fabio's sparc is even slower than I thought.
[04:18] <infinity> lamont-away : What's the URL for ports logs again?
[04:18] <lamont-away> sparc has not sent a -4ubuntu7 log yet
[04:18] <lamont-away> buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/...
[04:18] <lamont-away> buildLogs/g/gcj-4.0
[04:19] <lamont-away> Build needed 05:31:26, 878096k disk space
[04:19] <lamont-away> that was to the failure point on -4ubuntu6
[04:19] <infinity> Oh, ouch.
[04:19] <infinity> Kay, it may be a while, then.
[04:20] <lamont-away> fabbione: you admitting to being around?
[04:20] <infinity> I think he took off over an hour ago.
[04:21] <lamont-away> hrm.. actually, that -6 log is 5:31 to the point where he killed it
[04:22] <lamont-away> and was working on stamps/05-build-stamp at that point
[04:22] <lamont-away> doko: how confident are you that -4ubuntu7 will build on sparc?
[04:23] <infinity> Modulo goofy packaging errors like hppa, it should work fine.
[04:24] <doko> lamont-away: I don't see anything special on sparc, it's comparable to i386 and powerpc
[04:25] <lamont-away> any reason for me to _not_ kill the hppa build of -7?
[04:26] <doko> no
[04:29] <fabbione> sparc is building
[04:31] <lamont-away> doko: and none of the transition uploads have happened yet, correct?
[04:33] <doko> lamont-away: correct
[04:34] <lamont-away> fabbione: how big is your log file?
[04:35] <fabbione> 2.3M on ubuntu7
[04:35] <fabbione> almost as long as my penis
[04:35] <fabbione> it's a long way to go
[04:35] <fabbione> what's the problem?
[04:36] <lamont-away> hppa is ftbfs
[04:36] <lamont-away> so we're waiting for sparc to upload and unblock before uploading -4ubuntu8
[04:36] <fabbione> do you already have a fix?
[04:36] <lamont-away> I expect doko knows the fix
[04:36] <fabbione> doko: ?
[04:36] <lamont-away> (it's trying to package something it didn't build...)
[04:37] <fabbione> well if you want to upload ubunt8 go ahead
[04:37] <lamont-away> E: Couldn't find package libgtk+2.0-directfb-dev
[04:37] <lamont-away> that'd be why cdebconf keeps retrying every cron.daily
[04:37] <fabbione> it just means if ubuntu7 does build i can use it from the local cache
[04:37] <fabbione> if it doesn't sparc is screwed and we will ubuntu9
[04:37] <fabbione> just go for it
[04:38] <lamont-away> fabbione: sounds OK to me... doko?
[04:38] <lamont-away> infinity: any objections?
[04:38] <infinity> None here.  I already got all my binaries in. :)
[04:38] <lamont-away> meh
[04:38] <fabbione> i am not sure how long it takes to build.. and i am heading out to have dinner with my wife
[04:39] <lamont-away> fabbione: you killed -6 at 5.5 hours
[04:39] <fabbione> so it's unlikely i will look at the buildd for the next 12 hours or more
[04:39] <lamont-away> ah, cool.
[04:39] <fabbione> -5 went much deeper in the build
[04:39] <lamont-away> doko: ready for that upload...
[04:40] <lamont-away> 2142->0632 on that one
[04:40] <lamont-away> about 9 hours
[04:40] <fabbione> yeah and 4.8M of log
[04:40] <lamont-away> before sbuild received SIGINT -- shutting down
[04:40] <fabbione> gcc-4 takes about 19 hours to build here
[04:40] <fabbione> so you can make your calculation
[04:41] <fabbione> but again just go ahead
[04:41] <fabbione> i will sort it out later on
[04:41] <fabbione> gotta run and fast
[04:41] <fabbione> i am late :)
[04:41] <fabbione> cya later or tomorrow
[04:44] <doko> fabbione, lamont-away: yes, I have a fix
[04:44] <lamont-away> doko: may as well upload - fabbione will use -4ubuntu7 locally if it succeeds
[04:48] <lamont-away> and if you upload in the next 11 minutes or so, it'll make the next cron.daily
[04:51] <doko> lamont-away: done
[05:23] <elmo> err
[05:23] <elmo> I've  got  a bunch of c2a libraries in new
[05:23] <elmo> should I be not processing them?
[05:24] <doko> elmo: yes, should be safe, all buildd's are running the new gcc packages
[05:25] <elmo> doko: kthx
[05:37] <lamont-away> doko: hppa is running the old gcc
[05:37] <lamont-away> since that's what has to be installed to build gcj
[05:37] <lamont-away> gcj-4.0 build started
[05:37] <doko> lamont-away: ok, but you can shut it down/upgrade after the gcj-4.0 build
[05:38] <lamont-away> doko: yes
[05:38] <lamont-away> given a .deb, how can I tell whether it is pre-transition or post-transition?
[05:46] <doko> it depend on one of the libraries, which we are going to rename
[05:58] <lamont-away> ok
[05:58] <lamont-away> is krb4 one such animal, I wonder
[05:58] <lamont-away> ?>
[06:00] <doko> no
[06:25] <doko> elmo: please sync boost, overwriting Ubuntu changes
[06:48] <lamont-away> boost_1.33.0-5..
[06:48] <lamont-away> ..failed updating 2 targets...
[06:48] <lamont-away> ...skipped 2 targets...
[06:48] <lamont-away> ...updated 1487 targets...
[06:48] <lamont-away> make: *** [build-stamp]  Error 1
[06:48] <lamont-away> doko: for extra credit, make it compile on hppa
[06:50] <lamont-away> interesting... I wonder who uploaded it, since all Ihave is a build failure
[08:30] <lamont-away> echo timestamp > javax/xml/datatype.stamp
[08:30] <lamont-away> make[4] : *** [javax/xml/datatype.stamp]  Segmentation fault
[08:30] <lamont-away> ew
[08:35] <doko> lamont-away: didn't see that in unstable
[08:35] <lamont-away> yeah, I've pushed it to the top of the hill again
[09:33] <fabbione> ok ubuntu7 did build
[09:33] <fabbione> so i guess i can just build ubunut8 and get along with it
[10:37] <lamont-away> fabbione: you could even just drop ubuntu7 in your local cache and let it go from there
[10:37] <lamont-away> and 8 will "just happen"
[10:38] <fabbione> lamont-away: that's what i did basically
[10:38] <fabbione> but i am prioritizing ubuntu8 to unsuck the other buildd
[10:38] <fabbione> that's waiting for 7/8
[10:38] <fabbione> but 7 will never hit archive
[10:38] <fabbione> so...
[10:38] <fabbione> 8 it is
[11:01] <doko> Riddell: ping
[11:01] <Riddell> doko: hi
[11:05] <Riddell> doko: hmm?
[11:10] <doko> Riddell: ?
[11:14] <Riddell> doko: you pinged?
[11:25] <doko> ahh, yes, arts upload?
[11:30] <doko> Riddell: ^^^
[11:30] <Riddell> doko: arts and kdelibs uplo
[11:30] <Riddell> doko: arts and kdelibs uploaded
[11:32] <doko> Riddell: thanks
[11:39] <doko> elmo: please process the changed allocator packages in NEW, should be nearly all libs in main
[11:47] <doko> ahh, crap, these are already in, but in universe ...
[11:48] <Riddell> which are?
[11:49] <doko> mdz: please can you promote: libgdome2-cpp-smart0c2a libid3-3.8.3c2a libwpd-stream8c2a libwpd8c2a, or do you need inclusion reports?
[11:49] <doko> Riddell: ^^^
[11:50] <Riddell> also libarts1c2a and kdelibs4c2a
[11:51] <Riddell> also libakode2 and libakode-dev which are about to replace akode and akode-dev
[11:51] <doko> Riddell: they are not yet in the anastacia output
[11:51] <Riddell> ok, just fore-warning :)
[11:55] <lamont-away> doko: 2nd try is past the first failure
[11:58] <mdz> doko: the usual rules apply; if they're just package renames and not new code, they don't need reports
[11:58] <mdz> doko: however, I can't do any promotions right now; elmo needs to do some maintenance on katie
[12:01] <mdz> Riddell: amarok-gstreamer shouldn't depend on mp3 stuff
[12:01] <Riddell> mdz: I'll investigate
[12:02] <mdz> thanks


[00:21] <guiverc> iso.qa.ubuntu.com has frustrated me too much today.. "[rt.ubuntu.com #67219]" on 'painful slow' site  (also pasted to -quality so apologies to those in both rooms)
[03:06] <arraybolt3> grr... I set the Breaks/Replaces in libfm-qt to << 1.2.1-1 rather than 1.2.1-2. So now I have to burn Salsa CI power *again*.
[03:06] <arraybolt3> s/have to/am going to/ (better get piuparts working locally pronto)
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> I cannot figure it out. I have Conflicts/Replaces on libfm-qt-common against libfm-qt << 1.2.1-2. The libfm-qt package installed *is* lower than that (checked with dpkg --compare-versions). Yet apt insists on trying to unpack libfm-qt-common 1.2.1-2 alongside libfm-qt 1.2.1-1, which of course crashes.
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> ```
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Source: libfm-qt
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Maintainer: LXQt Packaging Team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Uploaders: Alf Gaida<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>            ChangZhuo Chen (陳昌倬<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>            Andrew Lee (李健秋<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>            Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>            Simon Quigley<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>            Aaron Rainbolt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Section: x11
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Priority: optional
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13),
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libexif-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libkf5windowsystem-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libmenu-cache-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libqt5svg5-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libqt5x11extras5-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                libx11-dev,
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                lxqt-build-tools (>= 0.12.0~),
[04:23] <arraybolt3> Oh tar. Now it's going to flood the entire channel with something that was for Matrix.
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>                qtbase5-private-dev
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Standards-Version: 4.6.2
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Vcs-Browser: https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/libfm-qt
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Vcs-Git: https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/libfm-qt.git
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Homepage: https://github.com/lxqt/libfm-qt
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Rules-Requires-Root: no
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3>
[04:23] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Package: libfm-qt12
[04:24] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Provides: libfm-qt
[04:24] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Conflicts: libfm-qt
[04:24] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Replaces: libfm-qt8
[04:24] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Breaks: libfm-qt8
[04:24] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> What am I doing wrong?
[04:24] <arraybolt3> Surely there must be some way to reconfigure lubot_ to not do that.
[04:24] <guiverc> pastebinit please (that was a lot of 'dings')
[04:25] <arraybolt3> guiverc: Bot's fault. It was sent as a code block in Matrix.
[04:25] <arraybolt3> In the past, that would show up as "arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: link" with the Libera bridge. lubot_ is nowhere near as forgiving, turns out.
[04:25] <arraybolt3> But yeah, I'll start using a pastebin even in Matrix.
[04:26] <guiverc> :)
[04:27] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Also I just found what I was doing wrong most likely. I had my Conflict/Replaces against libfm-qt11. Not libfm-qt12. 🤦
[04:28]  * guiverc has fingers crossed that's it.... so  :)  (qt11/12)
[04:32] <arraybolt3> \o/ Piuparts now passes!
[04:40] <guiverc> :)
[06:40] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Simon Quigley: https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/libfm-qt/-/merge_requests/8 Pipeline is passing.
[06:40] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Merge 8 in lxqt-team/libfm-qt "Releasing version 1.2.1-2." [Opened]
[17:44] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: `Aaron Rainbolt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[17:44] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> Or @ubuntu.com / @lubuntu.me ?
[17:44] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> ...I did it again, didn't I?
[17:44] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Gah. /me fixes and pushes
[17:44] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Wait, what file is that in?
[17:45] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> d/control Uploaders
[17:45] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Tar. Found it.
[17:46] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> Also, this breaks 22.04 -> (hypothetically) 24.04 upgrades
[17:46] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> I get keeping libfm-qt8, because that's what's in Debian Stable: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libfm-qt
[17:47] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> But also, libfm-qt9 is in 22.04: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libfm-qt
[17:47] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> That being said, *this* would be an appropriate delta
[17:47] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Right, that's part of why it will need hand-synced and not auto-synced.
[17:47] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Might be a good time for me to learn merge-o-matic too.
[17:48] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> What is actually left in the Ubuntu delta following this change?
[17:48] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> I'd have to check again to be sure, but I know that there's the bit with the Conflicts/Breaks/Replaces, and sadly, the symbols file.
[17:50] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (ChenZhuo wasn't convinced by my logic behind adding it, and even had logic that warned that it *could* break things. teward and Dan both thought it would be a good idea to drop it, and I didn't have any input from you yet, so I figured since we were OK with just maintaining them in Ubuntu, that would be what we would do.)
[17:50] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (ChenZhuo wasn't convinced by my logic behind adding it, and even had logic that warned that it _could_ break things. teward and kc2bez both thought it would be a good idea to drop it, and I didn't have any input from you yet, so I figured since we were OK with just maintaining them in Ubuntu, that would be what we would do.)
[17:50] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (ChenZhuo wasn't convinced by my logic behind adding it, and even had logic that warned that it _could_ break things. teward and kc2bez both thought it would be a good idea to drop it, and I didn't have any input from you at the time, so I figured since we were OK with just maintaining them in Ubuntu, that would be what we would do.)
[17:52] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> this is what happens when you disappear Simon Quigley
[17:52] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> :P
[17:54] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> While I am motivated to maintain symbols files and believe they would be effective in the long term, at this point it's worth considering which "hill to die on." If the existing Debian maintainers are insistent on not keeping them and it is no longer precedent within Debian to keep them, we could consider dropping them. We should make such a decision with great care, not simply based on "these look too difficult to maintain" becau
[17:55] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> I'll find the discussion between me and ChenZhuo that I showed everyone last time.
[17:55] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/liblxqt/-/merge_requests/5
[17:55] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Merge 5 in lxqt-team/liblxqt "Releasing debian version 1.2.0-5." [Merged]
[17:57] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> The main logic ChangZhuo (been mis-spelling his name this whole time!) had against them was "With symbol file, it is possible that reverse-dependencies uses liblxqt1 which does not fulfill LXQT_MINIMUM_VERSION defined in CMakeFiles.txt. In this case, we need to either allow this happens in user machine, or set minimal version in reverse-dependencies Depends manually. The first case is not supported by upstream developer, which I
[17:59] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> teward: btw is there some way to make it so the bot between Matrix and IRC is able to handle overly long messages and doesn't flood the channel when someone pastes a code block?
[17:59] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> don't know
[17:59] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> the solution is don't post a code block use a pastebin :P
[17:59] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> :-/ Oh well.
[18:01] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> I've been stolen?
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> ye i need your knowledge of how you bridged irc to matrix
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> give info or burn in the depths
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> *woke up and chose violence this morning*
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> Ah. Yeah, so.... 1) running Element, right?
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> i am anyways
[18:02] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> kkkk coo
[18:03] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> send me the details direct
[18:03] <lubot_> [matrix] <teward> lunch beckons
[18:03] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> 2) op yourself in #lubuntu-devel:libera.chat
[18:03] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> Ok, doing
[18:04] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: See the mega-flood from last night up in the scrollback.
[18:04] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> This is why I was asking about this :P
[18:04]  * lubot_ [matrix] <arraybolt3> hurls teward into a pit of broken Sound Blaster 16 cards
[18:06] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> You mean the actual conversations taking place?
[18:06] <teward> code block pasting
[18:06] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Yeah. You can see tons and tons of code pasted into the channel that was part of a code block. Flooded so bad that guiverc had to ask me to not do that again :P
[18:07] <lubot_> [matrix] <eickmeyer> Ohhhh yeah, that looks like hell in IRC.
[18:17] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> shlibs is outdated compared to symbols and according to Debian Policy "may be more appropriate for C++ libraries and other cases where tracking individual symbols is too difficult." liblxqt is supposed to be pretty light; tracking individual symbols isn't really much of a chore
[18:17] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2>
[18:17] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> I disagree on a philosophical level. Just because upstream wants to set a specific minimum level for something does not mean that all downstreams need to follow it. liblxqt is GPL-3 licensed; if another application would like to come along and depend on it (an example being wingmenu), it would be useful to see which parts of the library it depends on.
[18:17] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2>
[18:18] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> Additionally, this does not consider the CI case, where you're building from the tip of the upstream development branch.
[18:18] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2>
[18:18] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> Again, I can disagree all I want, but if he's the one doing the work in Debian, I guess he is making those decisions. When we arrive at the point where Britney migrates liblxqt but not one of its dependencies, we'll see this come up in a pretty nasty way.
[18:19] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> Then let's let Debian face that and we can do our symbols in Ubuntu, but now we don't have to fight with i386 anymore \o/
[18:19] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> Fair enough, heh :)
[18:19] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (tbf i386 wouldn't have been that hard were it not for how I was doing it.)
[18:20] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> "Use the archive to iterate, it'll be fine."
[18:20] <lubot_> [matrix] <tsimonq2> (Now *that* is hardcore. :P)
[18:21] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (actually the way I was doing it was actually good because I had to have an i386 VM for it. Gah. Anyway, good bye and good riddance. Ubuntu's sbuild is way better than Debian's.)
[18:22] <lubot_> [matrix] <arraybolt3> (At least to set up, in my experience.)


[21:40] <Lil-|^Red> ~OT | Saw this recently. I know things be quiet at moment. but battle-on g\dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l4qG6kEvoE


[22:35] <hallyn> for a very simple libvirt-lxc container with upstart, i have just an lxc.conf which emits 'start console', and a console.conf that then runs getty on /dev/pts/0.  When the resulting login exits, the exit_group() seems to kill upstart.  Simple solution?
[22:35] <hallyn> (running getty through setsid doesn't work bc then upstart respawns to the limit immediately)
[22:36] <hallyn> (i don't get why this is different from console gettys on a normal system - which doesn't seem to do anything special)